OWS Becomes the Sneetches

One of my more popular posts over the past few years concerned a Dr. Seuss fable called The Sneetches. You can read the post to get the details of the fable but what’s important here is that Dr. Seuss’ story informed my perception of human nature. As I wrote back then:

This simple tale has always encapsulated for me a philosophy about the human condition. Take any set of humans, no matter how seemingly similar, and they will find a means to discriminate among each other and sow the seeds of discord. It happens between whites and blacks … it happens between dark-skinned blacks and light-skinned blacks, and so on. Each time you think you’ve got a group of people who are more similar than different, they discover a way to find a meaningless difference about which to segregate.

And so it goes with the Occupy Wall Street crowd in Zuccotti Park in New York City prior to their recent eviction. Jon Stewart, sadly one of the best sources of dead-on political commentary and news considering his show is a comedy, documented the mind-blowing schism that had occurred among the OWS protesters.

Vodpod videos no longer available.

Yes, the one world, fairness for all movement had split along … wait for it … economic lines. In the words of one protester there was the aristocratic bunch and the ghetto bunch. So once again my Sneetches philosophy of human nature was confirmed. The rank hypocrisy implicit in this schism was on further display when one protester explained to Daily Show “correspondent” Samantha Bee that everyone should have an iPad, just not HIS iPad. Sharing was paramount so long as it wasn’t that particular protester who had to do the sharing.

It was easy at first for folks like me who voted for hope and change in 2008 to become enamored with the OWS movement. The movement in its first few weeks highlighted the inequity of our current system and put a magnifying glass over the criminal bankers who have yet to pay for their crimes. But you can shine a light on a problem for just so long before it becomes as boring as a test pattern. Without moving to the next stage of suggesting viable solutions, the stagnant atmosphere that develops invites all of our worst human tendencies to come to the fore. Hence, the crime rate within the occupation had increased, the friction with police had increased and as this Daily Show video shows, unity within the organization itself had decreased. In fact, one could argue there never was organization despite all the “general assemblies”.

OWS is becoming the exception that proves the rule there is strength in numbers. As OWS protests have spread across the country, so has increasing discord. When you add local law enforcement the potential for explosive situations multiplies. The movement is devolving into one huge temper tantrum.

Still, like Linus in his pumpkin patch, I always thought I could at least count on sincerity winning the day within OWS. Alas, Jon Stewart has taught me otherwise. The OWS protesters cannot see past the nose on their own face any better than the  rest of us. What I thought was a sincere rebirth of 1960’s idealism in the 21st century has turned out to be just another bunch of Sneetches.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

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339 thoughts on “OWS Becomes the Sneetches

  1. Oh gawd. The tawdriness of this one gave me gas.

    Three weeks ago, you were attempting to throw rose petals in the OWS path on their road to utopia, you were so enamored with idealistic nature leading to the inevitable depravity.

    Imagine there’s no heaven…it’s easy if you try. All you needed was a cheap guitar and a peace sign with some flowers in your fro.

    Don’t go wobbly now.

    And you were doing so well earlier today of trying to defend the indefensible failure called Obama.

  2. Hey Tex, take a qualified mea culpa where you can find one. I’m proud of the fact that I BELIEVED until the evidence was clear otherwise. It can get pretty depressing for folks like you who have forsaken Peter Pan.

  3. I’m proud of the fact that I BELIEVED until the evidence was clear otherwise.

    Like Obama? 🙂

    Have you ever given consideration that these series of really bad choices and fantasy are a pattern of behavior Peter?

  4. In fact, one could argue there never was organization despite all the “general assemblies”.

    “I don’t know about no unity. I just came for the music, the easy chicks, and the free pizza. What’s tubercul…tubercul..*cough cough cough* tuberculosis, anyway?”

  5. Sorry. For some reason I was logged out, so my comment is in moderation. Delete that one please, so I don’t double up.

    Dr. Seuss was a genius. A lot of wisdom presented in simple and entertaining form. I grew up on his stuff. It is classic and quite true.
    Humans are strange animals. We like to think we’re the same, but really we are all quite different. The more insecure we are, the more we demonize others. At any given point, circumstances can make us seek commonality well enough to band together against an enemy or threat. When we lose that focus, we prioritize our own needs and establish a pecking order among ourselves.

    To expect unity in a movement this new and diverse is not realistic. The common purpose is in rising against injustice. It is a universal desire. As Americans, we have been intentionally divided and misled for so long it is very tough to focus ourselves collectively behind one purpose.

  6. Rutherford, if you’ll permit me to deviate from the subject matter of this outstanding post, truly Shakespearean, but I needed to tell the Chicken Little types that frequent the board here of some recently discovered facts that were disputed earlier this year.

    You will recall earlier this spring a couple of Libs and our resident Einstein and mathematician Poolman, were debating the catastrophic nuclear fallout of the Fukushima plant.

    I was castigated for my lackadaisical calm manner. Not that it wasn’t tragic – I just stated not the end of the world, as I had faith in the Japanese scientists to control the situation.

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn21181-radiation-levels-in-fukushima-are-lower-than-predicted.html

  7. One Rube
    Two Rube
    Red Rube
    Blue Rube

    Black Rube
    Blue Rube
    Old Rube
    New Rube

    This one has taken it a little too far

    This one has a little economical car.
    Say! what a lot of rubes there are.

    Some are sad
    Some are mad.
    And some are very, very, bad.

    And some are glad.
    That fat one has an Apple Ipad.

    Why are they sad and glad and bad? And how do they have an Apple Ipad?

    I don’t know.
    I blame their Dad.

    From there to here,
    from here to there,
    anarchy is everywhere.

    Here are some who like to run.
    They run for fun.
    And break windows in the autumn sun.

    Oh me! Oh my!
    Oh me! Oh my!
    What a lot of rubes go by.

    Some are high.
    Really high.
    Don’t ask why.
    They buy brick weed and Mexicans die.

    All of them look like another.
    They must have the same fetal alcohol syndrome mother.

    Did you ever rape a nice bump?
    We have a lady bump with nice bumps.
    Go ahead and take it, Hump! Hump!
    Nobody hears the screams of a lady bump after one thump.
    Rutherford, stand watch at the tent, chump.
    We want to go bump bump and hump hump.

    Who am I?
    My name is Ned.
    I do not like my government bed.

    This is no good.
    This is not right.
    A king size bed is my right.
    My feet stick out of bed all night.

    There was once a creature named Track Mark Flinge.
    He Occupies Wallstreet when he’s not Occupying a syringe.
    But the President doesn’t cringe.
    He scoops votes from the far left fringe!

  8. Newt gets paid a million plus dollars by Fanny Mae for “consulting”?

    Ok, if that’s true, what million dollar nugget of truth did he tell those guys? How to successfully fleece America for 200 billion?

    What a fucking liar. Consulting my ass. Guarantee he was shutting people up. I wouldn’t be shocked if envelopes of cash were slid across swanky dinner tables to potential squeaky wheels.

    Too bad pinkos won’t Occupy Fanny Mae. But I guess the government is immune to their sissy fits.

    Meanwhile, Fanny tells us they will lose their all star line up if they aren’t allowed to shake us down for millions upon millions in bonuses.

    Bonuses for epic failure. Crony Capitalism at its best.

  9. The inside trading by the politically connected blows my fucking mind.

    This may very well turn out to be the most corrupt administration in terms of dollars in all of American history, thanks to the stimulus.

    WTF!

    Rutherford, you have got to learn what is going on with the stimulus.

  10. My two fav verses from the Rabbit:

    Why are they sad and glad and bad? And how do they have an Apple Ipad?

    I don’t know.
    I blame their Dad.

    and

    All of them look like another.
    They must have the same fetal alcohol syndrome mother.

    ROTFLMAO 😆

  11. The inside trading by the politically connected blows my fucking mind.

    This may very well turn out to be the most corrupt administration in terms of dollars in all of American history, thanks to the stimulus.

    Rabbit you lost me. What does the congressional insider trading (which I am learning about this week) have to do with stimulus?

    And may I please remind you this has NOTHING to do with this administration. The SEC regs that allow congress critters to trade on what they know has been around for decades. This is not new … it’s just coming into focus now.

  12. Tigre, great video … amazing what can be done with a guitar. I’ve never seen anyone play the neck exclusively like that.

    Even more interestingly, I could so easily see that dude playing at … wait for it … Occupy Wall Street. 🙂

  13. The real shame about the Occupy movement is that the sideshow overshadows the many legitimate gripes they have. Organization and focus — things they not only lack, but reject — would go a long way.

    They don’t seem to get that in a top-heavy system, change has to come from the top. The Tea Party got that and has people in Congress today. Occupy seems to want to change the structure of the system instead of play within it, and that revolution just aint gonna happen.

  14. Couldn’t have happened to a more worthless bitch…

    (AOL News) — ‘The Joy Behar Show’ has been canceled.

    According to the Hollywood Reporter, ‘The Joy Behar Show’ will end its two-year run in December.

    The series is the second highest rated series on HLN behind Nancy Grace.

    “I am very proud of the show that we created at HLN and I owe tremendous thanks to the show team who made it possible,” Behar said in a statement.

    In 2010 the series was nominated for a GLADD for Best Talk Show Episode: ‘LDS Church & Gays.’

    Behar will remain on ‘The View.’

  15. Tigre,

    I’ve been sitting here jamming for about 30 minutes to those Jon Gomm tunes. Very nice. Gonna have to look for a CD now.

    Great sound and amazing guitar work. Thanks for sharing!

  16. If this doesn’t scare the hell out of you, it should.

    The next financial crisis will be hellish, and it’s on its way

    http://news.yahoo.com/next-financial-crisis-hellish-way-204303737.html

    And if George Bush was the person responsible for the first financial collapse as all the MSNBC commentary has suggested now for three long years, and as that the only excuse left by libs to try and get Obama elected, then what does it say about the great Obama that he did nothing to fix the problem?

    Want to take a shot at that one Thor as you cover for Zero?

    Ask me and it happens within this next 14 months, that is an impeachable offense – criminal, in fact.

    Throw Obama in with the crack addicts. That’s where he belongs anyway.

  17. Many people in the finance industry, in rare moments of candor, agree with the OWS point of view.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/18/us-wallst-disconnect-idUSTRE7AH0Z620111118

    These financiers and bankers really, really don’t get how much misery there is out there, much of it because of other people’s money they have stolen and lost in their gambling. $200K? Nothing to them. But to a retired steelworker or secretary, it means the difference between eating decently in your old age and eating dogfood.

    My older brothers had two friends they grew up with – also brothers. All four went to work for Jones and Laughlin Steel in Cleveland when they were in their twenties. My brothers gave it up and went into the trucking business; the other two stayed.

    The company was bought out by LTV, who promptly raided the pension fund and then eventually went out of business. Both brothers are now dead; before they died, one got a pension of $78/month and the other none even though they had paid in their entire careers.

    I’m a free-market capitalist like any right-thinking person, but this crap has to stop. You can’t let these people ruin folks’ lives and walk away. The deregulation craze of the ’80s and ’90s sounded good, but you can see what it got us. We need free markets – absolutely. But we also need rules to protect the weak from the strong – something Libertarians believe is the only legitimate function of government.

    Has to stop, whether the OWS people come across as crazies – or ARE crazies – it has to stop.

  18. Never before has an administration have the liberty to make it rain dollars, domestically, like the Obama administration.

    Stim money went to politically connected businesses, many of them essentially risky, green energy publicly traded companies.

    Can you imagine the pump and dump potential of knowing the government grants before the street.

    You buy low, let the morons on Wallstreet think Company A is suddenly solid, after all, the government is GIVING them 25 million! By the time the street realizes that the whole thing was a kick back to money bundlers/campaign assholes and said company was crap, you already sold!

    That’s how the failed stimulus is tied to inside trading. The biggest inside jobs were tied to Stim grants dished out to shaky publicly traded companies. Believe dat!

    Come on, somebody prove it for me. I’m too lazy.

  19. I agree Pfesser.

    And as I have come across as probably the biggest critic of federal government on this board, don’t assume I am one of the crazies calling for an abolishment of federal government, besides the military. If the SEC was legitimately fulfilling its role, we wouldn’t have had the scope of the problems we experienced as a company in 2008.

    Hard to argue with some roles of government protection, pensions being the most obvious. That story is not limited to LTV either. That has happened to some of our friends affiliated with the airlines. I’ve often wondered if my wife will see much of her pension, which now approaches close to $3,300 a month if she were to retire at 60. With the situation of the company, after some research and taking into account worst case scenarios, it is still possible my wife could receive cents on the dollar promised.

    As I have stated here several times, it is a shame that OW has devolved into chaos – and I know why it has become depraved, and predicted it would devolve into chaos and depravity here soon after it started. Consider the sources of the protest.

    Because there are some very legitimate grievances with both the Fed, hostile takeovers, and the banking industry that only a competent federal government can resolve. But there are also legitimate grievances with unions and their influence.

    To be fair, the Tea Party should also have issued these grievances last year and needs to do it this coming year. They would be far more effective in resolving the issues than a bunch of bums. It’s not just big government that is the problem, but the collusion of several powerful entities, and allowing both Congress and Wall Street to play by a different set of rules than 99.9% of us.

    My biggest beef is that most of these loons loudest complaints have been with FOX News, and the corrupt union meddling – the OWS charade is 99% political, when it shouldn’t be.

  20. Damn, I swear my Alma mater is snake bit.

    For you non sports type, ten years ago last January, ten people affiliated with OSU basketball team, including players and the beloved color commentator, were killed in a plane crash on a return flight from Colorado.

    The crash left such a hole, that what I considered the best college basketball coach in America, Eddie Sutton, never did really recover (I heard from inside sources) as he was the one who had to inform the families – it changed the entire atmosphere of the university. Eddie reverted to pain pill and drinking addiction shortly after, and almost killed somewhat in a car crash. Sad, sad story all the way around.

    Yesterday, the OSU women’s basketball head coach and the assistant coach were killed in a small plane crash in Arkansas. 😦 Both had been very successful, taking a bottom feeder program and getting them into the NCAA tournament the last couple of years.

    I guess I should turn on the TV and get off the net on occasion. I had to turn learn this on Yahoo.

  21. Most ethical Congress evah… Kind of like the most transparent Administration evah

    Almost exactly a year ago, members of Congress voted overwhelmingly to censure their colleague Rep. Charlie Rangel for bringing dishonor on the House. Then-House Speaker Nancy Pelosi summoned the New York Democrat to the well and chastised him for his 11 ethics violations, which included improper fundraising.

    This week, Rangel again brought the House into disrepute – but this time he had the full support of his colleagues.

    “Last night marked a momentous evening in my campaign for re-election,” Rangel wrote in a letter to supporters on Thursday. “At a special event in Washington, Democratic leaders including Nancy Pelosi, Steny Hoyer, James Clyburn, Sandy Levin, John Conyers, Emmanuel Cleaver, and Steve Israel stood by my side and pledged their unwavering support on my behalf. I am so humbled and grateful for their involvement.”

  22. Tex – Last thread too long so I’ll summarize here. Morrison was an ass, but man what a freak shooter. Zero defensive skills. Him landing in the former communist Yugoslavia is almost Zen-like. 🙂

    Heard about the OSU women’s coach. Tragic and bizarre. How could it happen … again?

    Although Apoc. Now is a visual masterpiece, I wouldn’t rate it’s historical value above Captain America. Good soundtrack, though. I get my history of that era from living through it. This Time cover brings it back.

    http://www.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19700511,00.html

    M

  23. Morrison was an ass, but man what a freak shooter. Zero defensive skills. Him landing in the former communist Yugoslavia is almost Zen-like.

    The most reputable comment you have left here yet. 😈 I agree in its entirety.

    When Gonzaga was the proverbial underdog, I actually used to root for them. And they had some very good teams, vastly underrated as is their coach. Morrison wasn’t even the best player on his team IMO, much less the next coming of Larry Bird – not even close. I knew he was going to be a dud in the NBA, because thousands of guys can shoot or create shots. I actually saw Luke Walton, Bill’s son, about break Zen’s ankles one night on a crossover. I laughed out loud.

    But I was hoping you would say Oregon – or Washington. Some of those lying, cheating dirty dogs with poor attitudes playing thug ball, and lemon flavored basketball courts resembling forests. Now I’m going to have a hard time making an enemy. You’ve moved one step out of useless, and one step up of entertaining sports value. Keep up the good work. 🙂

  24. Damn. Remember when Time Magazine was actually somewhat reputable and Newsweak was worth more than a dollar? More poetic justice.

    Okay, we’ll share responsibility. Johnson started the covert stuff, and Nixon definitely escalated it.

    But the biggest tragedy of that entire war IMO, short of losing 53,000+ Americans, was leaving and letting the Khmer Rouge slaughter two million Cambodians. And that was one of the reasons that we couldn’t simply abandon Iraq, whether you agreed with the war, or not.

  25. They don’t seem to get that in a top-heavy system, change has to come from the top. The Tea Party got that and has people in Congress today.

    I don’t think that is entirely true. I think to some extent lib pols are cowards. It has NEVER been established whether the Tea Party reached out to the power structure or the power structure attempted to co-opt the Tea Party. In any case, there were congress critters (see Michele Bachmann) who were willing to fully embrace them.

    Putting aside unions, OWS has not gotten any power structure support and I don’t see any congress critters supporting them without some caveat. It’s also true that OWS message is still not refined enough for a power player to effectively move the ball forward.

    I can only hope that some lib pols pull the fundamental lack-of-equity message out of the movement and REALLY run with it.

  26. Thor, I do hope you know I was joking about Apocalypse. Poolman takes me seriously ever single time, and now I have to verify everything. 😡 I always make the mistake of assuming I’m talking to somebody lucid.

    Rutherford has taught me different. 😆

    That movie was about on par with the historical accuracy of say OWS. But you have to admit – Robert Duvall alone was worth the price of admission. And I had a crush on the playmate of the year.

    I watched it again the other night and still found it entertaining. Some real soldier like Gorilla would probably scalp me for saying as much.

  27. OWS has not gotten any power structure support

    Oh “R”. Come on. You know better than that. Hollywood, Rachel “Chaz” Maddow, Bulldog Schultz, Michael Al-Moore, Scanner Larry, and Queef Olbermann have done everything they can to legitimize OWS. Even those loons lend some power, for no other reasons, they are on TV. Even Obama has pandered….then slithered off when he got wind.

    And before it got too embarrassing, the nightly news couldn’t get enough of it. They were actually dumb enough to think these rubes legitimate for a time.

    The internet has done a wonderful job of exposing everything – whether you like it or not. If it weren’t for the internet, we would never see an Obama gaffe, or hear about charges of deviancy from OWS. It would have been portrayed like Woodstock.

    If you were smart, you and your liberal cohorts who still have a brain, would distance yourself from this scum.

  28. “It has NEVER been established whether the Tea Party reached out to the power structure or the power structure attempted to co-opt the Tea Party.”

    I’m not so sure about that.

    Even MSNBC acknowledges that the Tea Party did back candidates in 2010 and that some of them won.

    And this Wiki section gives more details you can ponder.

  29. I don’t know about the relevance of this “changing physics”, as I find that ludicrous, but I do have to admit I find this so fascinating.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-502223_162-57327392/2nd-test-affirms-faster-than-light-particles/

    However, it was confirmed several years ago, if you hold to the “Big Bang” theory, and most physicists seem to, then for a fraction of time for the Big Bang to be plausible, particles had to travel faster than the speed of light.

    Our universe is so mind boggling. Truly amazing.

  30. Huck, if memory serves before reading your links, I read where candidates – Tea Party candidates if you will – won 113 out of 129 races across the nation.

    That is a startling statistic if true – so startling, even the Libs couldn’t lie about it.

    I am rooting for Libs to start making mockery of the Tea Party again. 2010 wasn’t enough of a lesson for the malodorous stench to slink away. Blowing Obama away in a rout might be.

    That would be glorious. So speak up Libs! You’re not yelling loud enough!

  31. “Huck, if memory serves before reading your links, I read where candidates – Tea Party candidates if you will – won 113 out of 129 races across the nation.”

    The numbers seem to be an issue of contention but the fact that the Tea Party formally supported congressional candidates that won seats in Congress is not.

    Rutherford has spend the last few days trying to convince himself and the rest of us that the Tea Party is suddenly insignificant in American politics. History knows better.

  32. “I can only hope that some lib pols pull the fundamental lack-of-equity message out of the movement and REALLY run with it.”

    Was there some other message?

    I said to somebody this morning that “I support the OWS.” When quizzed I said anybody can say that. And I mean it. Anybody. That’s how empty the “lack-of-equity” message is. It’s also why the lefty’s efforts to co opt it couldn’t succeed.

    “Lack of equity” could apply to the fundamental message of the Tea Party, Republicans, the dems, socialists, or the Rent is Too Damn High Party.

    In other words, there ain’t nothing to run with. To obtain reform requires more than just an anti establishment bent and a bag of weed.

  33. “That would be glorious. So speak up Libs! You’re not yelling loud enough!”

    That never gets old or any less true. And the best part is they don’t get it.

  34. To obtain reform requires more than just an anti establishment bent and a bag of weed.

    😆 😆

    Tigre, there are times I find you and Dear Rabbit the two most succinct, profound people on this board. Beautiful, simply posed.

  35. And if George Bush was the person responsible for the first financial collapse as all the MSNBC commentary has suggested now for three long years, and as that the only excuse left by libs to try and get Obama elected, then what does it say about the great Obama that he did nothing to fix the problem?

    Want to take a shot at that one Thor as you cover for Zero? _Tex

    Gee, a hedge fund manager trying to scare people … what could he be up too. He didn’t even mention Spain, which is where this is all leading. I am much more concerned about their elections than the Fed’s balance sheet. Europe needs to sack up like we did three years ago and raise the bank capitalization. The problem is the disfunction of the Eurozone. It would be like the legislatures of Texas and New York deciding monetery policy for the entire country. BTW, Glass Steagal would adress this issue, at least start. That lands squarely on Clinton and the Republican Congress, not Bush. How’s that for fair dealing. If I didn’t know better, I’d say you’re advocating for more regulation. You little closet OWS-er you. 🙂

  36. If you guys are fans of the movie ‘Animal House’ like I am, every time I see one of these OWS movements on TV making music, I think back to this scene and how John Belushi saw through the crap. If I wouldn’t go to jail, I’d do the same.

  37. Rutherford has spend the last few days trying to convince himself and the rest of us that the Tea Party is suddenly insignificant in American politics. History knows better.

    Huck, no such thing has been said. The 2010 elections do not refute my original statement. The Tea Party found champions VERY early in their existence … so early that accusations still hover that TPM was a CREATION of Dick Armey and other power players. Be that as it may, the TPM driven elections occurred long after members of the GOP starting embracing them.

    Tex, you make me laugh. One minute you discount Maddow etal, as blowhards that NOBODY watches and in the next you claim they are power players supporting OWS. Puhleeeeze.

  38. R – How can you abandon OWS? You do realize you’re leaving me alone in a room with Poolman … with the lights out … with nothing to watch on TV but Simpson’s re-runs, interupted occasionally by 9-11 conspiracy infomercials.

    Actually, I don’t blame you. I blame Tex’s Svengali-like hypnotic powers. Probably the same way he duped his wife. If she really exists. 🙂

  39. The problem is the disfunction of the Eurozone.

    I so badly want to mention something about “dysfunction”, but I looked and there is a little known variant. Damn. I’m still going to nail your ass for Capitol Hill. 🙂

    No, I am absolutely not for more regulation which now costs the better part of $2 Trillion with a T a year – the bane of capitalism. It’s in large part why corporations are hesitant to hire. See Sarbane Oxley for how effective more regulation works.

    What I am for is for accountability.

    I think you mean you want part of the Glass Steagall Act reinstated. You really want the Fed regulating savings accounts again?

    To me, the verdict is still out about the ’99 repeal, and I had to look it up to make sure I remembered it. I contend that if the perpetrators had been held accountable and spent about 20 years in prison for their theft, and by the way George Bush was never one and I’m glad you finally recognize that, I don’t believe more regulation would be unnecessary.

    Pfesser was right this morning. These fat cats are removed from risk and removed from reality. You’ll note all these calling for higher taxes, already have theirs. It is time that they shared in our misery. And the most effective way to do that is to punish them severely with either (1) prison time; (2) liens on their worth; (3) playing by the same set of rules we do; (4) all of the above (best choice).

    Thor, you better wake up and realize this whole stock market is almost unrelated to Presidential performance. Obama is about as related to the value of your 401K, as I am to raising your taxes. I’ve been thinking you are using that only as a tool of lefty propaganda, but if you really are convinced the two markets are completely unrelated, then you haven’t been investing long.

    If you don’t recognize we are hanging by a tread with our level of debt vs. worth, that world financial markets now intertwined, then to you the feeling is not palpable that 2008 was only the wind before the storm.

    I can foresee a day soon when the entire world financial market collapses in less than a day. I’ve tried my best to preserve capital, basically 85% of our meager net worth is now cash, and I’m not entirely sure I’m even somewhat safe.

    Maybe you know something I don’t.

  40. Thor, I don’t know about my hypnotic powers, but rest assured Mrs. Taylor exists.

    I have often questioned her sanity and taste, as she married me and has tolerated me for a quarter century now. She does have the patience of Job, and occasionally I make her laugh, but nearly as often as she makes me laugh. Perhaps it was the good fortune that I helped make two really pretty babies, I think.

    If Mrs. Taylor didn’t, Rutherford would be feeding me right now, and Poolman and I would be making moonshine in the backyard.

  41. “I’ve been sitting here jamming for about 30 minutes to those Jon Gomm tunes. Very nice. Gonna have to look for a CD now.”

    When I was playing there were a lot of the alternate tuning “hammer” style players that were hanging out at Berkeley (school of music in Boston) that were getting off on Michael Hedges (died young years ago). Some really worked hard off his style and sought to expand it. Gomm is one of them, but the vocals in my mind make what he’s doing particularly interesting and I don;t recall anyone turning the tuning peg like that and some how landing the string back in tune. Really, really impressive stuff. He’s also got some licks towards the end that show he’s a jazz player at heart.

    I know Rabbit would like it. I’m glad you other guys did too.

    If you like the style, Andy McKee is another one that surprisingly was launched form a Youtube post:

  42. “Huck, no such thing has been said.”

    Not verbatim.

    Let’s look at what was said….

    “The Tea Partyers did WHAT??? They protested.They DID nothing else.”

    “We’ve gone down this road before. The early days of the Tea Party were UNFOCUSED. They hated everything under the sun especially if it had Obama’s scent on it. Their message got refined over time.”

    “The Tea Party found champions VERY early in their existence”

    Keep moving those goalposts, champ.

    You’ve gone from them doing “nothing else” but protesting….to… “their message got refined over time…to… candidates piggy-backed on the Tea Party….to… the Tea Party picked people they knew were going to win anyway.

    All the while, denying that you are claiming they are insignificant to American politics…..which comes after you had previously claimed they are ruining our country and exposing the downfall of democracy, itself.

  43. How can you abandon OWS?

    Thor, my wife and I had a heated argument about this, this morning. She thinks I’m too impatient and have too great an expectation.

    I’m with the fundamental premise. I’m with the movement but I’m getting tired of the folks doing the moving. I have to think there were some quiet Tea Party sympathizers who kept cringing every time a dumbass teabagger showed his ass on television, either with a stupid sign or a gun strapped to his hip. They loved what the movement stood for but hated the messengers. Most of the ideologues who frequent this board didn’t have the guts to condemn the Tea Partyers when they deserved condemnation. They thought it would interfere with the message.

    Well I’m in a bind. I want the banks put back in their rightful place. I want Washington to stop being bought and sold. I want people to be employed again with competitive wages. I want someone to yell and scream until someone helps make real change. But what I’m tired of is an exercise in pretend government and “flat democracy” that makes the protesters look like high school students doing an assignment. The drum circles and bicycle powered generators are no less ludicrous than the teabags hanging from hats. You don’t fight powerful corruption with “general assemblies”. This ain’t high school and it ain’t the 1960’s. I made that mistake already with Obama … thinking I was getting my Kennedy.

    Damn shame Elizabeth Warren isn’t running for President. She’s a badass who would actually get something done. That’s why Obama had to cut her loose. Don’t know what good she’ll do in the Senate. We’ll have to see.

  44. Thor, I don’t know about my hypnotic powers, but rest assured Mrs. Taylor exists.

    I often tell people my wife is the world’s greatest humanitarian. 🙂

  45. What I am for is for accountability.

    Accountability to what Tex? A friggin regulation, that’s what. Call it legislation, call it regulation, it’s the same damn thing and it’s needed in order to hold people accountable. DAMN, it’s no wonder your party can’t think its way out of a paper bag.

  46. Huck this one has nothing to do with moving goalposts. An apples to apples comparison of TPM to OWS has to take the maturity of the movement into account. When I say the TPM DID nothing but protest, I’m talking about two months in (same time frame we are in with OWS). The same goes for their lack of focus.

    I submit if the OWS crowd went the f*ck home every night, they’d have the longevity of the TPM and could mature to the point of influencing legislation. Unfortunately, they decided to recreate a 1960’s love-in and this is where we are.

    I hope something can be salvaged from it.

  47. IMO the Tea Party helped the Reps win the house but kept them from kicking out Harry Reid and possibly taking the Senate. The true test will be how many of them get re-elected. I know you guys see Ohio as a tie, but is the recall effort in Wisconsin going to be a bellweather moment? If so, it’s not looking good for the baggers.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-poll-shows-most-favor-recall-of-wisconsin-governor-20111116,0,6633196.story

    They need 540,000 signatures in 60 days or about 9000 a day. Right now they are averaging 20-25,000 a day. Dude really pissed people off. Rush calling teachers parasites probably didn’t help.

  48. “When I say the TPM DID nothing but protest, I’m talking about two months in (same time frame we are in with OWS).”

    In the future it would help if you said what you actually mean.

    And that argument is bullshit, too. What were they supposed to do…push up the 2010 election?

    They protested and screamed and shouted up until the time that they were able to do something more….elect local, state, and federal officials to office.

    “I submit if the OWS crowd went the f*ck home every night, they’d have the longevity of the TPM and could mature to the point of influencing legislation. ”

    Not without leadership and focus.

    Daily mobilization requires competent leaders to rally the movement and keep it energized and a unified, finely-focused message.

    Unfortunately, it appears their leadership is going to come from unions who are only piggy-backing on the movement. I don’t believe for 1 minute that unions give a piss about any part of the 99% that don’t make up union ranks and donate to union coffers.

    “I hope something can be salvaged from it.”

    I am not opposed to that, either. But I am skeptical that they will get it together enough to do it.

  49. To obtain reform requires more than just an anti establishment bent and a bag of weed.

    True.

    You also need drum circles, free VD treatments, preprinted signs from “establishment” labor unions, hippies who aged badly blabbering about “the movement”, and a high resistance to irony.

  50. I’m with the fundamental premise. I’m with the movement but I’m getting tired of the folks doing the moving. I have to think there were some quiet Tea Party sympathizers who kept cringing every time a dumbass teabagger showed his ass on television, either with a stupid sign or a gun strapped to his hip. They loved what the movement stood for but hated the messengers.

    *claps*
    *wipres tear from eye caused by laughter*
    R, I do love it when you speak authoritatively about things you know NOTHING about.
    The people who agreed with the Tea Party don’t have issues with firearms or the the exercise of Second Amendment rights. Their issue is with a blaoted government that consistently expands its influence into the daily lives of people that it was NEVER meant to have, and the fact that it does so with a combination of coercion through taxes, and irresponsible borrowing of money.

    As for the “stupid signs”, accepting the concept of Free Speech means accepting the fact that some people are going to say things you don’t like, don’t agree with, may offend you, or simply strike you as wrong.

    Unlike lefty asshats who have appointed themselves everyone else’s nanny, the rest of us do not fear the expression of our rights, and don’t seek to limit other people from doing so based on subjective personal preference alone. I’ve never seen any other philosophy pay so much lipservice to freedom and liberty and then work so hard to limit it.

  51. Damn Rutherford. For a guy smart enough to get into Harvard, you can be thick as a brick sometimes and naive as hell.

    Accountability to what Tex? A friggin regulation, that’s what. Call it legislation, call it regulation, it’s the same damn thing and it’s needed in order to hold people accountable. DAMN, it’s no wonder your party can’t think its way out of a paper bag.

    This retort of yours is so stupid, I'll have to contemplate how I want to mock you. It's so rich for entertainment, it deserves its just due. Right now, I'm only taking a break.

    I'll just say this. The party that can't think its way out of a wet paper bag, isn't the party that had historical losses in '94 and 2010 when it was in total control.

    And if you were to take a survey of OWS, you would find about 95% of the stoned and filthy maggots rotting at those zoos belong to your party and not mine. They aren't chanting F*ck FOX News and marching to intrude on Rupert Murdoch's townhouse because they are wanting Mitt Romney or Newt Gingrich for President.

    Now if that OWS orgy is your idea of true genius, creativity, and established excellence, I might have to rethink calling you the liberal with half a brain. 🙂

  52. “I want someone to yell and scream until someone helps make real change. But what I’m tired of is an exercise in pretend government and “flat democracy” that makes the protesters look like high school students doing an assignment. The drum circles and bicycle powered generators are no less ludicrous than the teabags hanging from hats.” – R

    They are yelling. The drums are to attract attention and juice them up. If they added a fife would you be good with it? Bicycle generators and solar panels aren’t for powering hair curlers, they charge their laptops and phones so they can livestream and coordinate. Incidently, the police usually go for the media tent first when they overrun one of the sites. They even confiscate books. Very Farenheit 451.

    Got to one of the livechats and engage, or just see what they are saying. Tell them your critique. If you’re not rude about it they let you speak. And Tex, if you plan on going in hot, they don’t suffer trolls. Ease in to it and then take your shot when you’re ready to leave. They will mock you for a few minutes, but there’s nothing wrong with that. One guy, I think it might have been Dick Cheney, came in as Occufag yesterday. He didn’t last long. 😉

  53. Not without leadership and focus.

    To this day TPM has no leadership, nor one central organization so I’m not quite sure where you’re headed there Huck. One might argue they’ve proven a decentralized group can still influence elections.

    Also OWS is doing its thing in an off election year. Let’s see if they or some offshoot of them makes a difference next November. That’s the apples to apples comparison to TPM.

  54. The people who agreed with the Tea Party don’t have issues with firearms or the the exercise of Second Amendment rights.

    BiW this sentence and the full comment in which it is contained show you to drip to a new level of asshattery.

    The 2nd Amendment allows folks to protect themselves. WTF were TPM protesters protecting themselves from at those rallies? Were cops going to bust their heads in (like they have at OWS rallies)? NO! The guns were carried to be f*cking obnoxious and nothing else. It had NOTHING to do with 2nd Amendment rights and decent law abiding supporters of the 2nd Amendment were embarrassed by the assh*les who came packin’.

    And your bullsh*t about the signs is irritating as well. You and yours spend as much time dissing the cosmetics of OWS as anything else. So don’t tell me the IMAGE presented does not matter. You know that’s pure bull.

  55. The 2nd Amendment allows folks to protect themselves.

    Who is it that reminds you to breathe?

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    While self-defense is implied in this language, it is not the only purpose that is implied.

    And the plain language is just that: plain. What part of “keep and bear” is it that you have trouble grokking, Einstein? No threat, imminent or remote is required in order for you to exercise your right to be armed. And no one was “obnoxious” with those firearms….but that’s because the bearers knew how to use them, and were accutely aware that they weren’t toys. Quit projecting your fear of guns on to the rest of us.

    You and yours spend as much time dissing the cosmetics of OWS as anything else. So don’t tell me the IMAGE presented does not matter. You know that’s pure bull.

    Did you forget your MIDOL today?

    Let’s have an exercise, shall we?

    At a Tea Party rally, someone pokes fun at Dr. Obama, the genius who accuses doctors of cutting off limbs to make money, and who says I can keep my doctor (Wrong, asshole. My Doc sold out to the local HMO and retired to avoid indentured servitude under Obamacare) by photoshopping a pic meant to depict him as an African Witch Doctor with the caption “Lyin’ African”. (But apparently, the perpetual victim class who howled for years about “Voodoo Economics” don’t like a similar analogy being drawn between ObamaCare and witch doctors…odd, that.)

    After a few hours, the rally is over, the attendees pick up all their debris, and everyone goes home.

    At Occupy ———, the attendees decide that they have a right to resdie on what is typically public propoerty, something that would be forbidden to any other group. What’s more, colluding public officials have no desire to enforce permit requirements that would be manditory for any other group. Sanitary conditions are a joke, the noise and the stench physicallly invade surrounding properies under conditions that would otherwise be considered a public nuisance, and protestors in many different sites around the country are witnessed shitting in public, confronting and assaulting people who they believe are jewish, becomeing walking incubators for VD abnd Tuberculoisis, and make continual attempts to provoke police.

    Being unlawful from the outset, then becomeing a public nuisance, then being a public health hazard, then deliberately breaching the peace and attempting to instigate conflicts is a lot more than “cosmetics, and you know it.

  56. 67 was a response to my regulation comment? If so …. LAAAAAAME!

    Your colon must be in an uproar again. How would you know if it’s lame? I haven’t mocked you yet. 😀 That wasn’t the complete response. Just another snide comment, of which you had no answer.

  57. BiC,

    Rutherford knows all of that. Give him room. He’s cornered and insecure, as usual.

    So, he will compare a couple risqué signs to what we have witnessed over the last couple months, despite looking like a complete fool.

    Poor guy. Duped by his MSNBC every fucking time.

    They don’t teach street smarts at Harvard. This why Rutherford is a partisan, marching idiot for liberals. He honestly believes everything they say. He simply doesn’t have the weather vein.

  58. Tell them your critique. If you’re not rude about it they let you speak. And Tex, if you plan on going in hot, they don’t suffer trolls. Ease in to it and then take your shot when you’re ready to leave. They will mock you for a few minutes, but there’s nothing wrong with that. One guy, I think it might have been Dick Cheney, came in as Occufag yesterday. He didn’t last long.

    Yeah, that was me. OccuFag. 😆 😆 Sounded kind of “007”, I thought. No, not really.

    Suffer trolls? They are trolls. The kind that live under the bridge and in caves. Entering that chat room would be like carrying on a conversation with a cage full of monkeys and a camera. A complete waste of time.

    I would Thor, but that is playing their game and lending credence to a bunch of losers with unknown purpose. I’m not into censorship, unless something like Fat Grannies, where I have fun dodging their security measures just to piss the moderator off.

    Besides, I already inflamed the lowlifes gathered here in Tulsa two weeks back. My wife and I ran into them gathered at the mall. Now you’ll be glad to know since I was with the Mrs., I didn’t light their asses on fire, but tried to be professional.

    So I asked them why they weren’t parked in front of George Kaiser’s mansion (of Solyndra fame) banging drums in 3:00AM? I never got much of a response, because my wife was pulling me by the ear toward the car.

    She is the anti-troll.

  59. They don’t teach street smarts at Harvard. This why Rutherford is a partisan, marching idiot for liberals. He honestly believes everything they say. He simply doesn’t have the weather vein.

    Beautifully said. Accompaniment to Tigre’s excellent observation.

    I’m kind of surprised that Rutherford isn’t a big Noam Chomsky kind of guy….or an Alinskyite.

  60. The TPM went mainstream. It has many spokespersons AND sponsors. It is a nationalist movement and there’s much money behind it.

    Remember Glenn Beck getting them rallied up? Good times. 🙄

    They are not a solid bloc, though they have presented themselves more unified over time. Much effort in the early process was spent ridding the party of moderates, in a somewhat cannibalistic manner. It is almost impossible to oppose them and still survive politically on the right. Then there’s the “enamored with all things Israel” sect of them. Of course, that isn’t strictly on the right. The left has had that genuflect down for evah.

    OWS rejects sponsorship and spokespersons. Even those that have spoken don’t necessarily speak for all those involved. There are even more extremes represented with them than with the TPM. Some infighting is to be expected where no clear agendas have been formulated and most of the participants are very young. It’s a clash of ideas and personalities

    Whereas the TPM is primarily political and national, OWS is more sociopolitical and global.

    They all don’t have to agree with each other, just seek common goals and work from all directions to accomplish them. I think they got a good start which was to raise awareness. The attacks and injuries by police will be rallying moments for years to come.

    As for the TPM, I think many of them have been exploited by corporations and special interests. I don’t think there are clear goals or transparent agendas.

  61. More Large moments in OWS Hall of Shame. No need to mock the way they look and smell. We need go no further than the way they think.

    ——-

    The sign at her feet read “For a nuclear free, carbon free future.” The one in her hands an equally predictable “Excessive wealth and consumption are dying paradigms. Renew American with a Green Revolution.”

    Before her stood Alex Epstein, energy expert and frequent PJTV guest commentator. Noting the sign on the sidewalk, Epstein asked, “You’re opposed to nuclear power and [carbon dioxide] generating power?”

    “Yes,” she answered.

    “Do you know what percentage of power in the world those generate right now?”

    “That’s not my concern. My concern is the people that are profiting off of power that is unsustainable….”

    Calm among the hubbub of Zuccotti Park, Epstein endured a lengthy non-response, then answered the question for her.

    “We’re talking about something that’s producing 95% of the power in the world,” he stated flatly. “This is the power that’s keeping people’s lights on. It’s keeping the food going. And you’re saying we ought to dismantle that somehow. And I’m saying, if that happens, the entire world as we know it will collapse.”

    It must suck to be that stupid.

  62. Tex,

    I’ve long maintained that the Green Energy supporters wouldn’t be happy if they got their way, because then the wrong people (them) would be the ones starving and freezing to death in the dark…if the diseases brought on by their weakened physical conditions didn’t get them first.

    Dangerous idiots on par with the Rachel Carson acolytes who have been content to let millions die from malaria so they could pat themselves on the bar for their outstanding environmental stewardship.

  63. Poolman,

    The problem with you and Thor (who is still using the puerile Tea bagger innuendo even after having his ass handed to him last November) is that you focus on the fringe of the Tea Party failure, when the results show an overwhelming success.

    Thor will bring up that the Tea Party cost the Republicans in Nevada. Maybe, though I don’t believe that. I more think the unions rolled the election – and it wouldn’t surprise me in the least that a considerable amount of cheating went down. Harry Reid is known as one of the most corrupt members of Congress. Sharron Angle (sp?) asked him flat out, “Exactly how did you become a multimillionaire while in Congress, and the bastard never did answer the question. We all know of the shady land deals. Harry Reid is a caricature of all that is wrong with Washington.

    Doesn’t really matter – Nevada continues to implode under Reid’s direction and the only people hurt were the people of Nevada. All the Republicans needed were to win the house for the Tea Party to be called a success. Republicans will win the Senate next November when it really counts.

    That ditzy, cute broad in Delaware (O’Donnell) would be a better example. But that once again misses the point and only helps to demonstrate that the Tea Party wasn’t necessarily partisan. That bum whose name escapes me that O’Donnell defeated in the primaries was a wolf in sheep’s clothing – in other words, an asshole liberal posing as RINO. Good riddance, as he would have been even more useless Harry Reid. At least Reid is upfront he is an asshole.

    The power of the Tea Party was that it was not co-opted and that truly was a groundswell movement. The dinosaur media couldn’t attack any one individual.

  64. Dangerous idiots on par with the Rachel Carson acolytes who have been content to let millions die from malaria so they could pat themselves on the bar for their outstanding environmental stewardship.

    Exactly…and based on bad science to boot.

  65. The key to understanding the sea change caused by the Tea Party is the state elections.

    The gerrymandering will hurt Dems for the next century.

    Anyone talking about a Reid victory as proof that the Tea Party hurt the GOP does not have an understanding of exactly what happened in ’10.

  66. Tex @ Comment #7
    “I was castigated for my lackadaisical calm manner. Not that it wasn’t tragic – I just stated not the end of the world, as I had faith in the Japanese scientists to control the situation.”

    Tex, I call BS to that report. My daughter has done two tours in animal rescue outside of the Japanese radiation zone and her radiation levels indicate exposure and most of the animals also show radiation levels.

  67. Raji,

    How much exposure? I can show radiation exposure after a dental exam. What you just said is practically meaningless. There is so much bad information on the dangers of radiation exposure being passed, that I cringe.

    Every living thing on the planet is exposed to radiation from the cosmic background every second.

    Can you quantify that level for me?

  68. Well Tex, I will have to ask her what her levels are. As her father is a Radiologist he did indicate her levels were a bit higher than his!

    I just wouldn’t go buying chickens from Japan for awhile.

    Being part of the Radiology world for way too many years, I am fully aware of cosmic rays!

  69. All hail Goldman Sachs, ruler of the new world.

    Elections? We don’t need no stinking elections!

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/what-price-the-new-democracy-goldman-sachs-conquers-europe-6264091.html

    The ascension of Mario Monti to the Italian prime ministership is remarkable for more reasons than it is possible to count. By replacing the scandal-surfing Silvio Berlusconi, Italy has dislodged the undislodgeable. By imposing rule by unelected technocrats, it has suspended the normal rules of democracy, and maybe democracy itself. And by putting a senior adviser at Goldman Sachs in charge of a Western nation, it has taken to new heights the political power of an investment bank that you might have thought was prohibitively politically toxic.

    This is the most remarkable thing of all: a giant leap forward for, or perhaps even the successful culmination of, the Goldman Sachs Project.

    It is not just Mr Monti. The European Central Bank, another crucial player in the sovereign debt drama, is under ex-Goldman management, and the investment bank’s alumni hold sway in the corridors of power in almost every European nation, as they have done in the US throughout the financial crisis. Until Wednesday, the International Monetary Fund’s European division was also run by a Goldman man, Antonio Borges, who just resigned for personal reasons.

    Even before the upheaval in Italy, there was no sign of Goldman Sachs living down its nickname as “the Vampire Squid”, and now that its tentacles reach to the top of the eurozone, sceptical voices are raising questions over its influence.

    Coming to a neighborhood near you. 👿

  70. Well then Raji. If you’re a radiologist, you of all people short of a physicist ought to know the irrational fear of radiation. And so you then know you can hold uranium in your hand for short periods of without fear. It’s gotten a bum rap as has radiation. Without it, the world wouldn’t work.

    Of course the food supply is going to be affected and care should be taken (the consumption of I-131 being the biggest concern of all). I didn’t say there were no worries. I said the situation was not as bleak as the Chicken Little crowd and the media were leading the public, and I’ve been proven right – your daughter’s exposure or not.

    So you know and you weren’t here during the discussion, Rutherford had the China Syndrome in the works (I guess in this case the American Syndrome). I told him the rods wouldn’t burn through the graphite floor.

    My biggest concern was GE was responsible for the construction of the plant. 😀

    By the way, I have a healthy respect for the radiology profession. I thought diagnostic imaging was quite challenging.

  71. “OWS rejects sponsorship…”

    SEIU, Teamsters, ACORN, AFL-CIO, and all of the usual players have their hands ALL OVER this Occupy movement now. And if you think they are only providing moral support I have a bridge to sell you.

  72. Sigh…

    Poolman, you being THE most uneducated and utterly clueless man on this board by a Grand Canyon wide since Yeller Dawg left, are you sure want to try your luck at a science debate ❓ You struggle with paying your taxes and your bills on time, while you slither out of the mortgage. Now you want to debate rems?

    See, this is the problem with millions of major league imbeciles like you and these OWS types – the absolute bane of human existence.

    A tragedy transpires, or really bad science rears its ugly head like global warming, and you’ve watched one too many Simpson shows where you’ve received your degree in toolology, and you panic, and run around screaming “SAVE US OBAMA! SAVE US!”

    So while the capable people are pushed to the side because crooked and self-righteous politicians see an opportunity to pander, government becomes involved, and we either implement asinine ideas like BIC has mentioned above costing the world untold millions of lives, or we spend millions supporting and defending against egregious conspiracy theories while incurring bankrupting expense and regulation.

    How much do I need to leave for your wife for you to end it all? A couple of thousand? A working refrigerator? I know, I know! A tax accountant.

    How about it? I buy your wife that new dress, and you agree to drown yourself?

    Tell me we have a deal. Please.

  73. Poolman,

    Here is your science lesson for this week.

    Tomorrow at HIGH noon, look up and stare straight at the yellow orb until it disappears. Up means tilt your head back to your shoulders.

    If it is raining by chance, make sure you close your mouth not to drown yet and wait until the next day. If by chance you forget, I’ll cover the price of the dress.

    That yellow orb is called solar “RADIATION.” Now, that yellow orb can kill you. However, without enough of that yellow orb, called the sun, all kinds of bad things happen.

    Like your rickets, when mom kept you locked away in the barn all those years as a child.

    Does that make sense?

  74. I think you’ll find the function of the Super Committee is deficit reduction? I thought the amount of debt had nothing to do with our first downgrade? 😉

    Once again, you don’t get it. The downgrade will not simply be the result of our deficit/debt … it will be because of our chronic inability to come to any compromise solution, i.e. to get anything done. THAT was what contributed to the first downgrade — our inability to quickly settle on a deal that would get the debt ceiling raised. And THAT was the fault of recalcitrant GOPhers scared of their Tea Party constituents.

    But I will give you this, Tex, in the case of the supercommittee, the fault is bipartisan. I don’t know the details of what the GOP members have offered up but I get the feeling they were rejected out of hand by the Dems. Folks are not playing nice.

  75. Ya know, Poolman, I was just wondering what Ann Coulter was like as a little girl. How does a little girl grow up to become an Ann Coulter?

    Hey Tex, as much catharsis as you get out of Ann, how happy would you be if either of your daughters behaved the way she does?

  76. Once again, you don’t get it. The downgrade will not simply be the result of our deficit/debt … it will be because of our chronic inability to come to any compromise solution, i.e. to get anything done.

    What a barrel of monkey spunk. You’re a hard man to feel sympathy for even in your delicate nature – an ignorant punk with a mouth.

    Tell this to those creditors pursuing you if you believe that true dummy.

    That you can’t reduce your debt like requested, but that you and your wife had reached that conclusion together.

  77. Hey Rutherford, as much catharsis as you get out of Chaz Maddow, how happy would you be if your daughter behaved the way she does?

    Eat me.

  78. Well then Raji. If you’re a radiologist, you of all people short of a physicist ought to….

    Tex, read again: I said her Father was a Radiologist.

    Didn’t say we were worried about the exposure but that there was exposure to people and animals. The volunteers were tested when they arrived and when they left. Animals were tested when rescued.

    Enough said.

  79. Comprehension, Raji. Lacking, apparently. I think he’s stared too long at the sun. Something about solar radiation and rain, I think. 🙄

  80. I think folks concerned about the Japanese radiation issues should revisit the evolution of the Chernobyl area. I recently saw a program showing how a rebirth of healthy mammals, birds,fauna etc have all taken root in the zone there.

  81. Rutherford, for one I applaud your epiphany. You may very well be the best candidate for the article linked in my latest post. Scan it at a min. R and see if there is something in it that speaks to you.

  82. Raji,

    My daughter has done two tours in animal rescue

    followed by

    I will have to ask her what her levels are. As her father is a Radiologist he did indicate her levels were a bit higher than his!

    I just wouldn’t go buying chickens from Japan for awhile.

    Being part of the Radiology world for way too many years, I am fully aware of cosmic rays!

    WTF? Do we have two Rajis on the board, each with a daughter? Whose daughter is this? Your’s? Some friends? Did I miss a post.

    Let’s start over…something simple that even Poolman can understand. Whose daughter is it with the high radiation levels?

  83. Alfie, don’t mention Chernobyl. It ruins the lib narrative. Never mind they are giving tours of the plant…for a price, of course. 😉

    Remember Mt. Saint Helens? Wouldn’t be inhabitable for a thousand years. That’s what the “experts” told us. Six months later, trees were coming out of the rocks.

    Truly Al Gore science has taken root in the lib community.

  84. “America was not created to be a nation of followers,,” Romney told his followers. The key to election seems to be to tell Americans how wonderful they are, stroke them like cats, avoid puzzling them, and keep saying “The American Dream.” Tell them that we’re a country of rugged individualists, just like Davy Crockett and Dan’l Boone. Probably we should wear coon-skin hats.

    http://www.fredoneverything.net/Romney.shtml

    Newt Gingrich. At least he’s been to school, though he’s smart enough not to emphasize it. The American People. The traditional values that made this country grate. Great. America is not a desperately sick over-policed welfare state collapsing into the Third World. No. Everything is as it always was. All we need is the Newt World Order and we will leap tall buildings at a single bound.

    His stuff is good and funny. Conservatives may not grasp the humor.

    After all, Ron Paul is tiresomely predictable. He would say hateful anti-American things. You know, we should get out of damn-fool wars, pick the military leech off the back of the republic, dismantle an empire that bankrupts the US, and end our perpetual state of martial priapism against Iran. Completely unelectable. A commie, I figure.

  85. Sorry Tex for the confusion.
    I am Female
    The Mother of my daughter
    The Father of my daughter is the Radiologist
    We are the parents of our daughter with high radiation levels

    Raji is a play on the names Maharajah/Maharani from an old friend from India.

  86. Got you Raji. I had a friend at an old company named Raji, spelled identically, who was male. I had assumed the masculine – my mistake.

    So we have two females on the Ruthersheen board? Now I have to mind my manners more.

    So I’ll rephrase. Of all the people in this world short of physicists, your “husband” should understand… blah blah blah.

    🙂

  87. Alfie, don’t mention Chernobyl. It ruins the lib narrative. Never mind they are giving tours of the plant…for a price, of course.

    Ah yes. Capitalism makes all things good again. Such a warm and fuzzy feeling of euphoria. 😐

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster

    Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus have been burdened with the continuing and substantial decontamination and health care costs of the Chernobyl accident. A report of the International Atomic Energy Agency,[7] examines the environmental consequences of the accident. Estimates of the number of deaths potentially resulting from the accident vary enormously: Thirty one deaths are directly attributed to the accident, all among the reactor staff and emergency workers.[10] A UNSCEAR report places the total confirmed deaths from radiation at 64 as of 2008. The World Health Organization (WHO) suggests it could reach 4,000 civilian deaths, a figure which does not include military clean-up worker casualties.[11] A 2006 report predicted 30,000 to 60,000 cancer deaths as a result of Chernobyl fallout.[12] A Greenpeace report puts this figure at 200,000 or more.[13] A Russian publication, Chernobyl, concludes that 985,000 premature cancer deaths occurred worldwide between 1986 and 2004 as a result of radioactive contamination from Chernobyl.[14]

    Why do so many spin the Chernobyl disaster in such light fashion? The data is conclusive even if the interpretation of that data is not consistent. 25 years since the event and people are still playing it down. The initial cover up and misinformation aside, the continuing effort to make light of the incident must be promoted by the advocates of “safe” nuclear energy. Since we have so much invested there, well it must be good. And the waste? Well we’ll just keep trying to find ways of storing it, or using it, or jettisoning it into space, or… Let the next generation deal with it.

    These are not folks concerned with facts, our the future, or the overall health of the planet. These are consumers with myopia.

  88. I had been trying to think of a person, place or thing to describe Poolman. And it’s been bugging me. I knew it was related to OWS, but I just couldn’t quite describe it.

    What could be so phony, useless, plastic, and distasteful all in one feckless package?

    But with the help of Ezra Levant, it finally came to me.

    A pink lawn flamingo.

  89. A damning thing about Wikipedia is that the articles are often interpreted to be supportive of the linkers agenda. The thing is,especially with the well written ones (ie the ones with extensive footnotes) people can see the truth.
    So it is here.
    The truth of Chernobyl is that it was far from Armageddon. People that respect this should not be broad brushed as folks that invite Armageddon.

  90. Raji, I was fooled too. I have friend named Raji (male) and made the same assumption. And in all candor, your haven’t written anything here that I recall that would reveal you gender until now. That is atypical for women bloggers on most any subjest in my experience.

  91. The truth of Chernobyl is that it was far from Armageddon. People that respect this should not be broad brushed as folks that invite Armageddon.

    In so much as Armageddon describes a place and generally refers to the final battle against the “Antichrist”, no, obviously not. In the general sense it is man fucking with the natural environment and the results of his MANipulation™ coming back to bite his ass.

    Then he spends the next effort trying to cover his ass, when he denies the truth of his own myopic tendencies. Started with Adam. Add generations and generations and generations and generations…

    ♪♫♪ Teach your children well…

  92. That you can’t reduce your debt like requested, but that you and your wife had reached that conclusion together.

    Wow that was nonsensical. Do you really think my idea of cooperation is for the super committee to hold hands, sing Kumbaya and then declare “we can’t get anything done”?

    The committee needs to come together with a viable plan. I’ve not stayed close to what has been proposed, but how ’bout they start with Simpson-Bowles and move on from there instead of reinventing the wheel? Maybe they are, I honestly don’t know.

    All I know is at this point it appears to be a joke of a process with bipartisan blame to go around. I’m also hearing rumblings that the draconian cuts that will automatically go into effect if they fail … wait for it … may get altered so even THAT does not happen.

  93. Hey Rutherford, as much catharsis as you get out of Chaz Maddow, how happy would you be if your daughter behaved the way she does?

    Eat me.

    I’ll take that as a “no”. 😀

  94. Apparently Chris Hayes was reporting this on MSNBC. But since I know how folks disdain him and the source, so here it is in a more pure and less interpreted form:

    http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/11/lobbyists-memo-to-bankers-on-how-to-thwart-ows/

    As lobbyists, they are up and comers, only showing 2.6 million recorded lobbying income so far this year. But they are only a small slice of the entire lobby pie.

    http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/firmsum.php?id=D000032643&year=2011

    This is some of what OWS is up against. There was also coordinated effort among government to quash it in the various municipalities. It isn’t going away.

  95. Well smack my ass and call me Charlie!!!! Raji, you’re female?? Not that it matters a wit but I had totally assumed the opposite.

    This is what I love about the Internet, in that it sometimes allows ideas to flow free of identification that might skew the interpretation of those ideas. I luv it!

  96. Tex, I’m curious, do you believe that in certain communities folks who light a flame near their faucets see a huge fire flow out of the faucet? I believe fracking has been blamed but I’m not sure.

    I ask because (ala Chernobyl) you seem to dismiss any man-made affront to nature as a liberal propaganda campaign.

    Perhaps I should ask a more general question. Do you think homo sapiens are capable of harming the planet in any way or do you think Earth invincible?

  97. This is some of what OWS is up against.

    Chris Hayes had a couple of interesting OWS items on his show today. Poolman, this is not just a question of what OWS is up against. It is a measure that this “band of smelly, useless, unemployed moochers” is actually viewed as a threat to the establishment. There is a fear that if enough people hear the fundamental message of how the 1% are coasting while the rest of us struggle, there might actually be some change coming around the bend.

    The other thing I heard this morning that almost made me regret writing this post was how the media is completely blowing coverage of this movement. And I don’t mean Fox, which we shouldn’t expect sh*t from. I mean every part of the MSM. We are seeing the kind of stuff reflected in my article above. We are NOT seeing OWS protesters working to keep people in their homes. We are NOT seeing cooperation between OWS and TPM in Memphis (yes imagine THAT!!!!)

    By the end, the Occupy Memphis members and their audience [Tea Party members] — made up mostly of whites over 40 years old — reached common ground on some issues, such as their perception that the government and politicians no longer listen to and serve the people they represent.

    They also found some agreement in their stances against taxpayer-sponsored government bailouts and “crony capitalism,” the idea that close ties between lobbyists, businesses, and other self-serving interests can influence government officials and the exercise of capitalism.

    “We all want the same form of government, which is one that listens to its constituents,” said Tran, a business and American history student who said he served in Iraq in 2009 and 2010 with the Army.

    Perhaps the end of the encampments is the best thing that could possibly happen to the movement as it removes the bright shiny object for the media to focus on. Now maybe we can get down to the meat of things.

  98. Ruthersheen,

    I’m glad you asked me a question about fracking – another subject you know nothing but what you read and hear from that Chaz Maddow toadie, geoscientist Chrissie “Ralphie” Hayes, and other ill informed planet savers and eco terrorists.

    So I did a little checking last week being Oklahoma one of the largest producers of natural gas in the world. First, contrary to uninformed numb nuts that think this is some kind of new process, we started fracking here in the 1940’s. Second, we have now “fracked” approximately 95,000 wells here in the great state of OK. Number of reports of incidents of contamination – none. 🙂

    So do I think homo sapiens are capable of harming the planet? Short-term yes; long-term no. I say that because Ms. Earth would take us out long before we could take her out. That is great OWS thinking – shit your own den.

    It takes about five minutes to choke the living shit out of all of us; probably two minutes to fry us; four-five days for dessication from lack of potable water; and maybe two months to starve us to death. And if that doesn’t fry your sausage, there’s always hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunamis, and tornadoes – if the volcanoes and sink holes don’t get you first. Ms. Earth moves slowly, but stopping her shifting is a real bitch. She doesn’t adjust to us – we adjust to her. Then after a number of years, Ms. Earth would be back to about square one and we would be a blot on the pages of history.

    If we really wanted to jolt her good, I supposed we could attempt to plasticine her entire surface which would mess her for thousands of years, but she’d only create another continent and eventually cover the plasticine.

    I’ll bet there is not one person on this board that has done more to “green” their home state than I have. Truth be known, I’m kind of a greenie myself – even a member of a replant club with my daughter for a time. So though I consider myself a good steward of God’s planet, I don’t claim ownership. It’s His.

  99. I’m sorry but I found that sentence extremely funny.

    He’s got some pretty good stuff.

    Here are some more tidbits…

    If I were to speechify to a conclave of Tea Partyers, “America is the free-est…the most democratic…the best educated and most dynamic country the world has ever known, an example to all mankind,” the assembled would hoot and hooroar and applaud in dizzy exaltation. Here is the soul of the American approach to existence, bottomless self-admiration devoid of knowledge or curiosity, wrapped like a psychic burrito in the patriotism of overwrought middle-schoolers. And there are many, many of them.

    We face rule by pajama party. Saints preserve us, someone with the foregoing understanding may become the president of the (for a few moments more) most powerful, erratic, and ignorant country on the planet. Among presidential possibilities we now have Rick Perry, Michele Bachman, Sarah Palin and, in the Great Double-Wide on Pennsylvania Avenue, Precedent Obama—political epiphytes all, fantasists, tent-revival Christians, provincial governors, inward-looking certitudinous naifs. The difference between Americans and Mohammed Ali is that when he said, “I am the greatest!” he was.

  100. “The other thing I heard this morning that almost made me regret writing this post was how the media is completely blowing coverage of this movement.”

    I have not liked the media coverage, either. The other day there were massive protests less than 3 miles from Fox News HQ and they were acting as if it wasn’t going on. I turned to CNN.

  101. we have now “fracked” approximately 95,000 wells here in the great state of OK. Number of reports of incidents of contamination – none.

    Shhhhhh!!! 🙄 Don’t tell that to the lawyers…

    http://www.carrcarr.com/natural-gas-explosions-and-contaminated-water-from-fracking-accidents

    Fracking has contaminated water and aggravated natural faults as well. Some are questioning whether it is possibly the root cause or major contributor to the recent quakes in OK It seems experts can’t conclude IF fracking contributes, only that tremors ARE occurring near fracking operations. I’m guessing no one wants to claim responsibility for conclusions that might hurt industry.

    It’s another “wait and see…oops! Too late.” scenerio. Profiteering backass mentality rides herd over the energy industry.
    Yee-haw! Profits are up, beeechez! 👿

    Here’s the Geological Survey basically saying, “Is it possible? Yeah, it’s possible.” Maybe as we continue to collect data we can do another one of these a few years down the road. 😉

  102. Well, hell yes Poolman. Why I should be surprised that you’re part of the conspiracy of contaminated drinking water and earthquakes from fracking? 😈

    —-

    Using an ambulance chaser as proof? Do you have any idea who Carr & Carr are Poolman? 😆 😆 They’ve gained quite a reputation right here in good old Tulsa – the greasiest ambulance chasers this side of a John Grisham novel.

    Why don’t you take a break tonight from scouring the internet for any fraud you can find, and turn on some obscure TV show at 3:00 AM. Wait around for a few minutes…you’ll see these men advertising for the dregs of the earth like you. You might even contact them. Sounds like you’re their kind of material.

  103. Some are questioning whether it is possibly the root cause or major contributor to the recent quakes in OK

    And some are questioning whether aliens built the pyramids too.

    This is rich. Are you the kind of flamingo that stands on one foot. Are are you kind of a plastic two feet solidly to the ground type? Do you use metal pegs, or wood?

    And some are telling us of wild tales of 2″ bone growth before their eyes and miracle cures. Can you verify that one for us Poolman?

    Ssshhh…don’t tell anyone Mingo, but I have figured out who the anti-christ is.

    What a sucker… 😆

  104. Tex and El Tigre

    I take that as a compliment as I try to be genderless in my opinions. Keep an open mind has always been my mantra.

    Tex, my husband does understand and that is why he (and I ) supported our daughter’s decision to go to Japan. I’m not too sure about her recent decision to go to Thailand for animal rescue in the flood waters. Radiation I can live with, Typhoid Mary is another story.

    Gentlemen, please don’t mind your manners. I am old enough to have been there done that and nothing shocks me anymore.

    Well okay, Rutherford, consider your ass smacked and called Charlie if that’s what floats your boat , but I also take that as a compliment. 😉

  105. Rabbit are you referring to the Drudge headline

    “EU bans claim that water can prevent dehydration”

    What a crock of holy shit is right!!!!!!!

  106. Rabbit unless the headline has changed since you looked — “EU bans claim that water can prevent dehydration” This sounds like the Onion, not The Telegraph. 😯

  107. Well okay, Rutherford, consider your ass smacked and called Charlie if that’s what floats your boat , but I also take that as a compliment. 😉

    Good, it’s meant to be. 🙂

  108. Cops using pepper spray on protesters sitting down linking arms is as stupid as it is fucked up.

    Huck, as I posted on my Facebook wall, even my seven year old who only vaguely understood what pepper spray was thought it was fucked up. In her words:

    “Pepper spray, really? How did you guys [Davis, CA police] get your job?”

  109. “Huck the most recent episode of Big Bang Theory added a couple of new brilliant variations to the “knock knock knock Penny” oeuvre.”

    Saw it!

    I got caught up on all of the episodes a couple nights ago. I wonder if they got some new writers or something. The last few episodes I saw were some of the funniest of the bunch.

  110. Tex, 132 better be a parody.

    Not parody. A conspiracy, with black helicopters, and fracking earthquakes, and naked Jews running through Poolman’s mobile home at night.

    I love that name for the former Poolman – Mingo. It just sounds like him. Kind of Mongo without the muscles.

  111. It’s faith the size of a mustard seed, Tex. Not your brain, buddy. I know that’s gonna hurt, but sometimes the truth does hurt. And don’t you know the bend in bananas usually enhances masturbation. Aren’t you yet accustomed to the women in your life telling you to get bent? You thought they were kidding?

  112. The faith of the a mustard see, Preacher Pink FlaMingo? 😆 Your faith goes beyond that…you got faith in Simpson cartoons.

    Mingo, I could light you up with that last comment. But it would require me to involve your poor, poor family. Having you as husband and father is punishment enough.

  113. Simpsons is parody, bub. Agree or not, a lot of the “in your face” attitude and scripts mimic real life. Slipping subtle insider stuff in some scenes only ups the game. Hollywood always does it. Call it living on the edge. Some humans thrive on that. Using subliminal messages isn’t a new concept. Animation only makes it easier.

    But since you’re into modern fairy tales, this ought to pique your interest. See if you can get through it calmly without blowing a gasket. 😉

  114. The last few episodes I saw were some of the funniest of the bunch.

    I think it’s in season 4 and it’s still going strong. I find the plots funnier when they stay away from Leonard’s love life. I never much liked Kuthrapali’s sister.

  115. That picture of bin Laden in the VT article makes him look like a pimp. 😐

    Gotta tell ya Poolman, that article is damn hard to swallow, especially the part about al Qaeda being a total fabrication. I’m quite sure Gorilla could give you first hand account of that being pure BS.

  116. Tex your answer to my question is interesting. I think I did a poor job of defining “harm the planet”. What I meant was make the planet uninhabitable for humans.

    So let me rephrase, do you think homo sapiens capable of making the planet no longer habitable for humans?

  117. Possibly. But I’ve found more often than not in a pinch, people find a way. So I would say the chances unlikely we could make it completely, universally uninhabitable.

    Mingo, any link to VT is now taboo – I’ve read too much of that shit to last a lifetime. I wouldn’t bother to read anything you link to at that Jew hating site. Find another if there’s something you want me to read.

  118. Raji said @ comment 89

    “Well Tex, I will have to ask her what her levels are. As her father is a Radiologist he did indicate her levels were a bit higher than his!

    I just wouldn’t go buying chickens from Japan for awhile.

    Being part of the Radiology world for way too many years, I am fully aware of cosmic rays!”

    It’s not that simple. (Never is – is it?) Radiation comes in a lot of flavors, and you have to talk about total exposure, not levels. “Levels” implies that the person himself is radioactive, as in the “level of radiation at Chernobyl.”

    If her father’s radiation badge is higher than his daughter’s, what were the circumstances? Over what period? Did she get more in a month than his lifetime cumulative? If so, that’s important – or is it just that her exposure badge read more last month than his? I do no interventional radiology; nowadays I just sit in my office and read off the screen, so my kids’ exposure for a month is higher than mine, since they are outdoors during much of the time I’m in a building’s bowels.

    The second thing you have to know is what kind of radiation did she get? Her exposure badge will tell you that, and the dose of each.

    If it’s alpha, that is very, very bad. Think Litvenenko and polonium 210. (alpha particles are very heavy and charged 2+; they have a very high LET (linear energy transfer) and do a lot of damage even in small doses, but are easy to protect from if you don’t breathe or eat them. Alpha is a bad player around reactors, so that is possible.

    If it’s beta (e-), that can be bad, too. Depends on the nuclide. I-131 is a strong beta emitter and can destroy the thyroid quickly, or give it cancer. Also a possibility.

    Gamma is just an x-ray generated by decay; depends on the dose and energy; could be nothing or could be fatal if >200R.

    Neutrons are the only particle that make things radioactive themselves (glowing in the dark!). They can be very bad actors since, being electrically neutral, they penetrate very deep into the body and can even penetrate tanks. (neutron bomb, anybody?)

    So, unless your hypothetical chickens got a dose of neutrons (very, very doubtful), munch away! We’ve been using radiation for decades to sterilize meat and it works just fine.

    So whether the radiologist’s exposure is important depends on knowledge of a lot of factors that I would guess we can’t get. As #5 said, “Need more input.”

  119. @raji thanks,I’m a sharer.
    @ Huck and R re UC Davis. Do you really find the use of the pepper spray that heinous?
    I’m sure there are those that will say it is the fascist in me speaking but the use was clearly indicated and appropriate from everything I’ve seen on it.
    Some will say that the police should not have confronted the protesters given they were so insanely outnumbered. (200+:30-35).
    To that I say the rule of law must stand. The students are not at the the uni as a right. It is a privilege,one that comes with rules and responsibilities.
    Some will say the police were not in danger. That is not a concept in any given situation that can be viewed only objectively. Subjectively the police trying to effect arrests and depart the scene had clear reasons to feel threatened. Those that don’t believe that or cannot relate do so presumably from the luxury of never being in the situation.
    Look beyond the imagery to the reality.

  120. This is mainly for Rabbit, El Tigre, and BIC, as the rest of you either don’t know the parties involved or sympathized with Graychin, reaching the same gawd awful conclusions about the world.

    I want you to read a case of what is perhaps the clearest indicator of what goes around, comes around I’ve experienced in quite some time.

    I noted for your recently that our former antagonist Graychin, who once bragged on the efficiency of his Post Office as model for Obamacare and our health systems, much to his dismay found out like all citizens of Eucha, OK, that the post office would be closing. 😆 Reality bites.

    Well, you would not have heard this as it a local issue, but in that rural district of Delaware County of which I was born and Graychin now resides, at least part time, and though there are parts of it that our absolutely beautiful, even breathtakingly beautiful, I would consider it one of the most backwards throwbacks in America. It rivals anything of the deep south.

    Seems the Sheriff and a bunch of his Delaware county Deliverance bohunks have been groping and sexually assaulting female prisoners for years, until one of them had the connections to put a stop to it. Some of the perpetrators are going to prison; others were just fired. But here is what I wanted to tell you. The county is going to get to pay for the crimes – in other words, Graychin is going to either have his sales taxes increased substantially, or his property taxes raised 18%. 🙂 Karma.

    And this morning, and I’m pretty sure it is our Graychin, he wrote an editorial to the T-World, complaining… now get this… that you get what you pay for, and it was small gov’t, lower tax proponents who were the real cause of this. I kid you not.

    http://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/article.aspx?subjectid=62&articleid=20111120_62_G2_Iwasin463358

    For a highly educated, otherwise intelligent man, I have never met anybody that could come to that absolute worst conclusions imaginable; post offices being models of efficiency and effectiveness still the clearest example.

    When the smartest libs I know like Graychin and Rutherford are invariably this wrong headed, you can see why I truly do believe liberalism is a mental illness (for real).

  121. More good news for America – The Next Bubble to Burst

    And this one is coming as sure as the world. These short paragraphs to me especially stuck out:

    Student loan debt that surpassed total credit card debt in the U.S. This year’s graduating class of college seniors had the highest average debt to date, and that total just jumped above the $1 trillion mark.

    And by the way, of that $1 trillion, approximately 80 percent was federal student loan debt and 20 percent was private student loan debt.

    http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/story/student-loans-housing-bubble-all-over-again

    Scary times people. Very scary times we live in – we are imploding.

  122. Tex, are you sure that’s G-chin? That’s typical lib mentality, but even uncharacteristically retarded for G-chin.

    Of course, I do recall that gem he wrote on the boards for the family of the boy that was killed in a car wreck to digect in the wake of the tragedy. . .

    He like Poolman do have chameleon-like Internet personalities (but always with eye towards prophecy or misplaced blame).

  123. Eucha, Zena, and Jay, OK, are a small world. No, I’m not 100% sure – fairly sure. I’ll elaborate further some other place, as even Graychin, I’ll grant a modicum of personal privacy.

    But even if I am absolutely wrong, I am right about just punishment of what goes around, comes around for Graychin’s little world. 🙂

    But you don’t think that snarky editorial opinion sounds exactly like Graychin? To me that is case #1 for circumstantial evidence. I read that this morning, and thought “Gawd, if that isn’t Graychin, it ought to be.” Second, the background follows his – why do you think the legal interest and rudimentary understanding of law demonstrated here? Finally, the locale. Why would a person with Tulsa residence be concerned with property taxes in a different county, if not a personal interest – or this case, cost? I’m sure he kept a primary residence here.

    Just say I deduced it with good reason.

  124. “I’m sure there are those that will say it is the fascist in me speaking but the use was clearly indicated and appropriate from everything I’ve seen on it.”

    Can you elaborate on what actions protesters took that warranted the use of pepper spray? Maybe there is something I didn’t see.

    But I just don’t see how people sitting with arms linked were an immediate threat to police. If the police felt threatened by the crowd “surrounding” them, then why didn’t they spray the crowd that was surrounding them?

    “Look beyond the imagery to the reality.”

    So you have the ability to see a reality when you were not even there to be a part of that reality?

    What you are asking me to do is to look beyond imagery to the assumption of a reality. I won’t do that. I work with facts…not assumptions.

  125. Can you elaborate on what actions protesters took that warranted the use of pepper spray? Maybe there is something I didn’t see.
    As I hinted at earlier the fact that they encircled the police, whether by intent or as a point of space and numbers plus the failure to obey a lawful order gets you sprayed. The precedent and legality is sound even if it offends ones sippy cup false freedoms idealism so be it.I’m starting to wonder where some folks in these threads stand on the rights of a society over individuals.
    So you have the ability to see a reality when you were not even there to be a part of that reality?
    Yeah sort of. My belief is that you and Rutherford and many many others view the actual spraying footage under a microscope when additional footage shows a bigger picture. The bigger picture is the reality I speak to. My views are based on a compilation of views and words from both sides of this argument.

    As far as facts and assumptions thing. Huck I deal with the facts of having been in similar situations,on both sides of the law.

    Were you there?

  126. Huck, I’m not exactly clear your stance. Do you believe students should move when asked by police?

    If not, whatever happened to the respect for authority? I’m no huge fan of bullying police anymore, but I do obey if they ask me to move. What if we all decided to not obey the rules and there was no authority? Wouldn’t absolute chaos ensue?

    I understand your concerns. I really do – pepper spray is pretty harsh. But neither is it irreparable harm, like a billy club over the skull.

    Something else I do understand – you don’t know what transpired to that point. I’ve watched enough of these videos to know that many of these policeman have been cussed, spit on, screamed at within their personal space, personally threatened, etc…

    So I’d be interested to know what you would propose to do with these squatters that refuse to move? Work around them? How do you work around a bridge, or even a park?

    I think we are throwing these police in a no win situation, and a degree of latitude is in order.

  127. “But you don’t think that snarky editorial opinion sounds exactly like Graychin?”

    Tone yes. It’s just that it’s so pathetically stupid I would think even G-chin isn’t that dumb. Of course G-chin never ceased to amaze. And he does align himself the Yellowdog who, without exaggeration, is the single dumbest human being I have ever encountered on any blog, anywhere, on any topic.

    The question I have is, “what’s the going rate for a non-raping police force?”

  128. “liberalism is a mental illness (for real).”

    I used to believe that liberalism is just borne of individual insecurity. I am beginning to think its more a form of corrupted logic that comes with expectations of societal a/economic equality that exist only in a system founded in inequality (i.e. meritocracy as pointed out in Alfie’s article).

    Where else could you have serious discussion (Pelosi) about a “windfall retirement savings tax” on private sector employees while simultaneously supporting public unions and pensions for public employees? It goes beyond Rutherford’s Peter Pan syndrome.

  129. To me Tigre, it read just like Graychin’s snarky remarks here and elsewhere. I mean, just like them. The Grover comment was the dead giveaway.

    What would higher taxes have done to prevent sexual assault? Even more conflicting, assuming this man is right, the author contradicts the entire content of his message with his conclusion. He will be paying more to the state, therefore he should be pleased because he’ll “get better government.” Notice the hypocrisy – everyone needs to pay more taxes for better government – except when it becomes applicable to him.

    That’s the kind of quality conclusions Graychin would reach here.

    And I believe this type of conclusion is synonymous with men like Warren Buffett, who did everything he could do to avoid taxes his entire life, including marketing for changing the tax laws in an earlier life, until he approached the end of life – realizing he wanted to be something more than world’s richest man. So now that he is completely immune taxes no matter the rate, we are supposed to suspend disbelief that he was always of this opinion.

    It’s insulting to think Warren Buffett believes we are this naive.

  130. The question I have is, “what’s the going rate for a non-raping police force?”

    Exactly. And since when did rape and assault become cause and effect of property taxes?

  131. I haven’t seen any pepper spray incidents that looked provoked. I think the first one that went viral was those women that were behind the plastic orange barricade in NYC that were sprayed by Deputy Inspector Anthony Bologna. He lost vacation time and the incident was/is under investigation.

    Crowd control is starting to resemble pest control. I think that’s how they’re beginning to feel about the herds of hapless humans. I think this is considered an acceptable humane human herding technique by most PDs. It is considered non violent. Yikes! I wonder which would be more fun, pepper-spray or taser? Rubber bullets or bean bags? Batons or tear gas? The sound weapons? 😯

  132. Regarding 162, I was originally skeptical when Mayim Bialik joined the cast because I had terrible memories of her 80’s series “Blossom” when she was an obnoxiously precocious teenager. As Amy Farrah Fowler she is fantastic, the perfect foil to Sheldon. Even my wife, who really resisted her in the beginning has been won over. Now that they’ve added Howard’s fiancee Bernadette, we’ve got a trio of females (Amy, Bernadette and Penny) just as funny as the guys.

    The great element they’ve added with Bernadette is when she yells like Howard’s mother.

  133. I’m sure there are those that will say it is the fascist in me speaking but the use was clearly indicated and appropriate from everything I’ve seen on it.

    Alfie the only thing I saw was a line of OWS protesters, arms linked, sitting on the ground and a cop spraying them like they were insects. They presented NO threat in the video I saw.

  134. And this morning, and I’m pretty sure it is our Graychin, he wrote an editorial to the T-World

    Tex, I’m pretty sure I know Gray’s real name so unless he used an alias on the letter to the editor, it ain’t him,

  135. To me Tigre, it read just like Graychin’s snarky remarks here and elsewhere.

    LOL … Poor Tex. Tex my friend, there are HUNDREDS of people who read just like Graychin. They’re called progressives.

    And just like so many of you conservatives sound EXACTLY ALIKE, so it can be said of libs/progressives. 🙂

  136. @180 they do their best. They’d be better off if they didn’t have the crazy “tax” that Congress banged it with. They are suffering though given the inability to act like a business whence they are trying to be one.

  137. I didn’t watch the we-all-love-God forum last night in Iowa but from what I hear Tex and Tigre would have gotten a major erection from it. Apparently Newt told the OWS crowd to get a job after they take a bath.

    Oh, and in related news, Michele Bachmann, demonstrating to the crowd a woman’s place in such events, poured water for her fellow nominees. The only thing missing was her giving them their slippers and the evening newspaper. At least she puts her money where her mouth is. When up against it, she behaves like a good Christian woman who bends to the men around her.

    Mmmmm, come to think of it, she’d probably be pretty popular with the Taliban as well. 😉

  138. R look at more video. There is an outer ring of standing protesters,there is cops,there is the ring of sitting protesters and cops in that ring. The seated ones are along a paved route of egress. They were seated with arms entwined. This is a classic civil disobedience tactic,it makes movement dangerous to police and protester alike. It is also a source of escalation.
    The use of CS,pepper spray,water etc. are termed compliance tactics. You are warned,permitted time to comply,then acted upon.
    Watch for the politcalization of this as undoubtedly some member of the UCD police will be tossed under the bus.
    Blocking egress is a threat.
    Failure to comply is a threat.
    Posturing with superior numbers is a threat.
    Cusses,taunts etc. are a threat.
    Disobedience of the law is a threat.
    Society trumps individuals.

  139. Rutherford has had a double bowl of Progressivios.
    Wow. First Gingrich in fuller context can be seen and heard
    HERE
    The full stanza is a political reality and not too far from the premise of your previously revealed epiphany re the OWS crowd.
    As for MB. OMG she showed civility at a faux Thanksgiving Day table pony show hosted in a church by one issue zealots but no no no she’s a Stepford Wife automaton as opposed to a calculating yet failing candidate aware f her surroundings. Psst the less than partisan take on it is one of remarking on the civility.

  140. a calculating yet failing candidate aware f her surroundings.

    But isn’t it sad that her calculation involves pandering to a crowd who expects the woman to do the serving at the Thanksgiving table? Do you really think she looked presidential pouring water into the glass of that misogynist pig Newt Gingrich?

    Also of interest was the absence of the two Mormons in the race. Huntsman has basically made NH his home so no surprise there, but wouldn’t it have done Mitt some good to show he is “just another brand of Christian”?

  141. FWIW I’m on you about Bachmann only because you reminded of way too much of the leftist chatter. Out of a pathetic show the four “lasting” attributes are as follows.
    Bachmann seen as civil by some a tool by others.
    Newt on target with a nonreligious talking point,the OWS thing. As noted above it was rather good.
    Romney a no show
    The host an anti-Romney bigot.
    These four things are being spoken of after the event,key in politics.Two of these things can help Romney more than hurt him seeing as his best shot at the Oval (after getting the nom) is being attractive to centrists and indies. Iowa doth not a POTUS make,it’ll be Fla,Ohio and perhaps Indiana.

  142. Regards the spraying @UC Davis. I’ve seen a number of stills that supports the compliance argument. In the end the police are gonna be trashed,doesn’t make it wrong though.I think it was Tex that said it but in all the events where force has been introduced you have a situation where law enforcement is being put in no win situations. The college admin and Oakland mayor exemplify this greatly.

  143. Rutherford, you are a dick. 🙄

    Do these “progressives” live in Eucha, OK, with the same educational background? Do you know anything of Delaware County crime? I do. I was sent an email one time listing Graychin’s real name. I probably still have it on a different computer and I do remember it is not his yahoo id of which you think you might know.

    If I get the time, I’ll dig it up and see if I was right. Doesn’t matter – the idiocy of the comment is something beyond you and now Michael will pay the price as a Delaware “progressive.”

    And I got a boner this afternoon watching that stinking Gorilla gash named Michelle OBama be booed at a NASCAR event. That’s great TV.

    Here. Enjoy this little gnome:

  144. “As far as facts and assumptions thing. Huck I deal with the facts of having been in similar situations,on both sides of the law.”

    Anecdotal evidence in this case is no more a fact than it is coming from mountain climbers claiming the glaciers are melting.

    “Were you there?”

    No. That’s why I am limiting my comments to what is shown on the tape instead of whatever else I think might have gone on based on whatever preconceived notions I have.

    “Do you believe students should move when asked by police?”

    If they are peacefully exercising their 1st amendment rights then I can confidently say “FUCK NO.” Where would our country be if every protester in the last 250 years did what the authorities told them to do?

    “I’ve watched enough of these videos to know that many of these policeman have been cussed, spit on, screamed at within their personal space, personally threatened, etc…”

    Yeah, I have watched a lot of what has gone on, too. Probably more than anyone else here. And in many instances the police have shown an incredible amount of restraint.

    But it appears (and I stress that word “appears”) to me that the police were overzealous in this instance, whether their actions were within the bounds of the law or not.

    “So I’d be interested to know what you would propose to do with these squatters that refuse to move?”

    I’d wait them out. It’s getting cold and wet. The herd will thin unless they are given a reason not to. Take a look at their resolve after they get fucked with. We all know the symbolic power of martyrs. Why give them that symbol along with all the others they have?

    RE: #187

    Well if police are allowed to use whatever compliance tactic they like on people sitting on the ground then I guess those protesters are just lucky it was pepper spray at point blank range instead of rubber bullets and beanbags or hickory to the head.

    We are arguing 2 different things here, Alfie. You are talking about what they can and can’t do, I am talking about what they should have and should not have done. Even the police chief’s comment about hindsight suggests she agrees that what was done was not the best course of action.

    In my opinion, spraying pepper spray escalated the potential danger to everyone present a lot more than sitting down blocking a sidewalk did.

    Look everyone…I am not saying the cops shouldn’t have felt threatened, nor am I saying they shouldn’t have used the spray. All I am saying is…if they felt threatened by being surrounded, they should have sprayed the people actually surrounding them. I am not buying this sidewalk route of egress bullshit. Obviously the space around the sidewalk was accessible to pedestrians because that’s where the people were who were supposedly surrounding them.

    We’ll have to agree to disagree here.

  145. “I think it was Tex that said it but in all the events where force has been introduced you have a situation where law enforcement is being put in no win situations.”

    I actually agree. In my opinion, the people who are screwing up are those giving the police the orders to move in.

    Where I disagree is treating every crowd that calls itself Occupy the same as every other crowd that calls itself Occupy. There is no reason to believe the situation in Davis was the same as that of Wall Street or even Oakland. This was a brand new Occupy group that is mostly bitching about a statewide issue as opposed to national or international issues. Why not let them gather and scream and shout for a little while? That’s all they would have done.

    In most situations I think law enforcement has behaved appropriately. This one, not to much.

  146. Huck,

    I’d wait them out. It’s getting cold and wet. The herd will thin unless they are given a reason not to. Take a look at their resolve after they get fucked with. We all know the symbolic power of martyrs. Why give them that symbol along with all the others they have?

    Might work, but I think it makes a dangerous precedent, and I think you put cops in an unfair position. Sometimes force is required.

    I personally don’t think most people would look at them as martyrs and just a horrific nuisance.

    But I can see your point. Let them be such a nuisance that there are no sympathies.

  147. An Obama at an event with scary gun-toting bible-clingers?

    It seems they thought as highly of her as she does of them. 🙄

  148. I am going to cut Ron Paul some slack and agree he is not getting a fair shake from the media, and admit there are some very appealing things about his message. Not appealing enough to vote for him, but appealing nonetheless.

    That’s why they need to remove Huntsman, Santorum and Bachmann from the process immediately. Johnson was never serious to begin with. They take up space and waste time.

    Leave Romney, Gingrich, Cain, Perry, and Paul to go at it. And Cain and Perry are moving dangerously close to being removed from the list IMO.

  149. Expose’ of the Left (Busted):

    The plan was a simple one. The path to Obama’s second term requires that enough voters forget that our current economic woes are the fault of a failed President who enjoyed two years of having every single item on his wish-list passed by Congress. And so the idea was to create Occupy in order to give the MSM the cover they desired to spend every single day up until the election talking about greed and income inequality in order to blame both for the stagnant economy.

    The hope was that by repeating this message incessantly, enough voters could be convinced that Wall Street, and by extension, evil Republicans, were to blame for our chronic unemployment, record deficits, and stillborn economic growth. President Obama who?

    Fortunately for America, this plan has not only failed miserably it has backfired completely.

    Rutherford was a part of it initially. Let us not forget he also has failed miserably. You’ll need more than a sycophantic media and a pack of lies to win this time Rutherford. You’ve got a record now. 😉

    http://bigjournalism.com/jjmnolte/2011/11/18/panicked-ap-attempts-to-memory-hole-democrats-occupy-endorsements/

  150. Oh, and Tex, I’m not going on the Yahoo id that Gray uses in his posts. I’m going on private mail I’ve received from him. Now I fully agree that may not have his real name either. I’m just telling you that the letter to the editor could just as easily not be written by him as written by him. THAT doesn’t make me a dick.

    Seriously, do your research and tell me if you can confirm your hunch. I’m not rooting against you, I just don’t think at this point that you’re right.

  151. BTW, Tex I’m still waiting to hear your defense of that asinine statement that we can make sure banks don’t misbehave without regulating them. You promised you’d elaborate. I can’t wait to see what kind of logic can cobble that argument together. 😉

  152. Huck, the other thing that comes to mind with UC Davis police is if they asked the protesters to move and were defied, then why not approach them and physically start arresting them. Pick them up, handcuff them and carry them off.

    Part of civil disobedience is to not fight when arrested. It is to not fight AT ALL. That’s why with that other California Occupy incident (was it Oakland?) where the protesters were throwing rocks … hey they get whatever’s coming to them. But as police, you don’t use weapons to handle passive resistance. You use your body … your arms .. to pick the folks up and drag them to the paddy wagon. If that is met with violence, THEN you pull out the pepper spray.

    Or, as you said, you do the most prudent thing and just wait them out.

  153. An Obama at an event with scary gun-toting bible-clingers?

    It seems they thought as highly of her as she does of them. 🙄

    That almost expresses my thought Tigre. But I was thinking more along the lines of ethnic preference. I imagine a miniscule number of black folks enjoy NASCAR. I could be wrong. So Michele being there had to stick out like a sore thumb, even if she had been a nobody.

    Then again, I think she and Jill Biden got booed at a more “racially inclusive” sporting event in the past. Oh well it’s hard being First Lady when you’re a radical black-panther-like Angela Davis wannabe radical. 🙄

  154. Johnson was never serious to begin with.

    I assume you’re referring to Gary Johnson. What is interesting here Tex (I heard this from Johnson himself on a talk show) is that the pollsters and the media manipulate the results to some degree. Johnson doesn’t register on any polls you see because his name is never placed on any polls. In other words, you can’t vote for someone who is not on the list. I’ve listened to both Johnson and Buddy Roemer and neither one comes across as a total crackpot. But some grand poobah has found them unworthy and they’ve gotten a media blackout.

    It’s another example of what George Carlin used to say … we think we’re being given free choice … but we’re not.

    If I could convince myself that Paul’s opposition to the Civil Rights Act was truly intellectual in nature and not bigoted, I’d be cheering him on right now.

  155. Alfie opined:
    “Subjectively the police trying to effect arrests and depart the scene had clear reasons to feel threatened. Those that don’t believe that or cannot relate do so presumably from the luxury of never being in the situation.”

    The cop smiling and conversing pleasantly with the cameraman certainly seemed relaxed enough. So did the sprayer, who strolled along at a leisurely pace, squirting pepper spray in the protesters’ faces, and then back again. I found myself wondering whether, had it been me sitting there, I would have shot HER in the face – but with a .38. Bastards.

    It was said by the police spokesman that the cops were “encircled” and “cut off from their support.” Nonsense. Witness the cop stepping over the circle of protesters completely unmolested.

    No, thank god for iPhone and iPad video cameras. I think the whole world has a very good representation of what went down, without a single word being said. Just watch the video. Yep, protests are inconvenient, and very challenging for police, but their job is to protect – EVERYBODY – including those who are causing a bit of discomfort to the rest of us.

  156. “I imagine a miniscule number of black folks enjoy NASCAR.”

    I imagine a miniscule number of black folks enjoy people that enjoy NASCAR.

    The Obama’s contempt for the NASCAR crowd is no secret. And I think it’s racial. In other words, it cuts both ways. But one is in the White House. Funny that.

    Who the hell set this up? Occupy NASCAR?

  157. R, not a word about tingly-legged Matthews?

    I saw that Mika was outraged — and I mean spittin’ mad about the “take a bath” Gingrich comment. Do you share her “outrage?” If so, I can’t wait to hear all about it.

  158. Michelle Obama, Dr. Jill Biden Draw Boos at NASCAR Event
    ABC News

    “Jill and I through Joining Forces, we want to make this a part of the dialogue in this country forever. Whether Jill or I are here or not, whether this administration is here or not, this is about the way we want this country to talk about our troops, veterans and military families forever.”

    Probably the most stupid PR decision in the world. Your PR people need to understand the group dynamics that you are entertaining and trying to influence.

    NASCAR + MICHELLE OBAMA + JILL BIDEN = Stupidity!

    Tiger, definitely had to be OCCUPY NASCAR!

    Gentlemen, I have attended many a NASCAR event and in my wildest imagination cannot picture those two as Grand Marshall.

  159. I saw that Mika was outraged — and I mean spittin’ mad about the “take a bath” Gingrich comment. Do you share her “outrage?”

    Yeah I saw Mka very upset this morning. With Joe not there to calm her down, she really went off.

    You know why I’m not “outraged” Tigre? Because Newt Gingrich is a dick of the first order. I expect no less from him. I featured his soundbite on my “show” last night and made the simple observation that this man aspires to be the President of the 100% … that includes the 99% he so disdains. Good luck to him.

  160. Gentlemen, I have attended many a NASCAR event and in my wildest imagination cannot picture those two as Grand Marshall.

    I’ve never attended a NASCAR event but I agree totally. No offense to NASCAR lovers but it seems almost as absurd as her attending a Klan rally.

    Still, her being booed is nothing to rejoice about. I love how some of you on this board consider yourself patriots. 😐

  161. THAT doesn’t make me a dick.

    Maybe dick isn’t the best descriptor. A little weasel and someone definitely not to befriend or trust? Yeah, that’s better. I’ve now read enough of your for three years to confirm that much. An Ivy league graduated parrot and as Elric used to accurately state, “A drone.”

    As Chaz Maddow and Bill Maher are nothing but cowards playing to their little unsophisticated TV audience, and you’ll note they never venture far from their comfort zone, you’re the lesser dregs carrying their water in your imaginary world of Rutherford Lawson.

    ——–

    Except now I am calling you straight up a LIAR.

    Tex I’m still waiting to hear your defense of that asinine statement that we can make sure banks don’t misbehave without regulating them.

    Show me where I said that?

    ——-

    To answer your nonsense for you, because you’re too damn dishonest to do it yourself, I’ll show you’re putting words in my mouth, as you do when you have no answers.

    Here is exactly what I said weasel:

    No, I am absolutely not for more regulation which now costs the better part of $2 Trillion with a T a year – the bane of capitalism. It’s in large part why corporations are hesitant to hire. See Sarbane Oxley for how effective more regulation works.

    More being the key word weasel? Get it dick? [ed]

    What I am for is for accountability.

    I think you mean you want part of the Glass Steagall Act reinstated. You really want the Fed regulating savings accounts again?

    To me, the verdict is still out about the ’99 repeal, and I had to look it up to make sure I remembered it. I contend that if the perpetrators had been held accountable and spent about 20 years in prison for their theft, and by the way George Bush was never one and I’m glad you finally recognize that, I don’t believe more regulation would be unnecessary.

    Pfesser was right this morning. These fat cats are removed from risk and removed from reality. You’ll note all these calling for higher taxes, already have theirs. It is time that they shared in our misery. And the most effective way to do that is to punish them severely with either (1) prison time; (2) liens on their worth; (3) playing by the same set of rules we do; (4) all of the above (best choice).

    I said more regulation is useless and wouldn’t work any better than what is on the books now. I never said banks shouldn’t be regulated – they are already massively regulated. I said the SEC didn’t do their job with respect to monitoring equities – more specifically derivatives and credit swaps. Guess what – under the auspices of Banal Barack, they still aren’t. The problem still exists. You need to be dreaming up excuses now so that you’re not blindsided next year to cover for Barack.

    And like corporations, the Fed, the Federal Reserve Board, the FDIC and the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency didn’t do their job in 2008 and long before. So what the hell are more regulations going to do dick if the ones on the books aren’t even being enforced?

    So once again I am forced to tell you, “Eat Me”, adding the words lying, little and dick.

  162. And yes R, offense or no, comparing NASCAR fans to the KKK is offensive and stupid. You know better.

    Interestingly, Luntz had his usual metrics going and when Newt made those comments, the support for what he said went through the roof. The respondents were Iowa caucus voters. I don’t think you realize how out of sync you and Bubbles are with the rest of the nation.

    P.S. OWS nearing 5000 arrests… Just like the Tea Party…. Or maybe not…

  163. Rutherford it is one thing to step in dog poo and entirely another thing to jump up and down in it.
    First the Gingrich line. Get the f@#$ over yourself. Have you seen or read the entire comment?
    I love how some of you on this board consider yourself patriots.
    Hey it was your side that said dissent is a high form of patriotism.
    I think the sad things about the Obama/Biden NASCAR thing is that it was a political points ploy by the Obama Administration using the WRONG people. The after story is that the larger scope of the event was the “thanking” of NASCAR for supporting the troops and veterans.

  164. Are you ready for President Down-Grade, part two?

    WASHINGTON (AP) – Fewer U.S. companies expect to hire new workers in coming months, as business economists grow increasingly pessimistic about the overall economy’s growth in the coming year.

    Nearly 85 percent of economic experts surveyed expect the economy to grow at a meager 2 percent or less over the next 12 months, according to the National Association for Business Economists. In July only 23 percent of the survey’s respondents predicted such slow growth.

    Additionally, the number of companies that plan to hire more workers fell from 42 percent to 30 percent, while the number of companies laying workers off rose. The group reports that 13 percent of respondents have reduced their staff, up from 8 percent in July.

    One-fifth of the economists say the European debt crisis has hurt sales, with the average estimate around 10 percent, and 30 percent expect the squeeze to continue into the first quarter of 2012.

  165. The problem with Ventura is if I’m not mistaken he’s a big conspiracy guy.

    Those of us on this side of reality consider him an emboldened seeker of justice and truth. The “conspirators” are still running things and almost into the ground.

    Yeah, he’s a bit “in your face” and not a real “people” person, but his motives are sound, from what I have discovered.

    It’s time we had some real patriots in the oval office. Both these guys have served their country, whereas the past few have not.

  166. Michelle Obama is as deluded as her husband, and twice as stupid.

    Both are under the illusion that they are loved and respected. Guffaw!!!! Just wait until next year….

    That bum Barack gets booed at military events, CMA, NASCAR, and any professional sporting event this side of the NBA. You think I’m harsh? You should read the ESPN board when Barack Obama slithers in to make his “tournament picks.” Brutal. 😆

    Nobody of any worth wants to be affiliated with them.

    And I thought the Clintons were the most shameless, classless, tawdry people on earth. Little pretty wallflowers compared to the Obamas. Have you seen this? For the schlub’s campaign, no less.

    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/194659-locked-out-nba-stars-to-play-in-obama-2012-fundraiser

  167. Tigre, I went and watched the entire interview with Chris Matthews. I agree with most of what he says. I think he’s wrong when he says Obama hasn’t asked the American people to call their congressmen. He has done that.

    However, Chris misses another point which was a major misstep and it was the fault of David Plouffe. When Obama got elected, Plouffe transitioned the Obama For America organization over to the DNC and it therefore became totally political. Instead of using that organization to continue outreach to Obama supporters (WITHOUT asking for money) and ask those supporters to participate in government, the ball was dropped. The grassroots aspect of Obama’s ascendancy did not translate to the Oval Office and it should have.

    There is no way that those of us who looked upon Obama as a breath of fresh air in 2007/2008 cannot be disappointed now. And I don’t give those of you who never believed in him one ounce of credit. You weren’t operating from wisdom but simply from partisan loyalty and allegiance to the conservative ideology. The “D” after Obama’s name condemned him in your eyes. You’ve got nothing to gloat about.

  168. G, she’s the wife of YOUR Commander-in-Chief. You of all people should show a bit of respect or have they stopped teaching that in the military industrial complex that signs your paycheck? 😕

  169. They teach us that respect is earned. Vacationing in Spain on the taxpayers dime while we are dying and millions are unemployed? Fuck her.

    We respect the Office of the President, and as such, we’ll respect him in his capacity as CIC. I don’t owe that bitch a fucking wooden nickle…

  170. Gawd, it is the ultimate embarrassment these tactless toads were even allowed in to visit the White House. I hope America is completely ashamed.

    Get this? The Democratic party for the little man? 😆 In the article I linked, you’ll note the price of admission. $5,000.00 for a court side seat – to Obama’s “pickup” game? Not to be donated to charity, or good will, or even entertainment due to the lockout. All for Barack, figurehead of free rent and gas. Pure, unadulterated greed.

    The absolute phoniest, most awful “couple” on earth. 100% classless.

  171. Gorilla, Barack Obama no more pays for your paycheck then Putin pays for your paycheck. You’ve got nothing to apologize for to this worm.

    The American public pays your salary. And as a small fraction of the allocator to your paycheck, I say, “Wish there were more like you calling Barack Obama out for his lameness. Job well done!!!!”

  172. Tex, let’s review the video tape:

    Comment 53: Your first lecture in which you claim more regulation is not necessary but accountability is.

    Comment 60 “Accountability to what Tex? A friggin regulation, that’s what. Call it legislation, call it regulation, it’s the same damn thing and it’s needed in order to hold people accountable. DAMN, it’s no wonder your party can’t think its way out of a paper bag.”

    Comment 67 “This retort of yours is so stupid, I’ll have to contemplate how I want to mock you. It’s so rich for entertainment, it deserves its just due. Right now, I’m only taking a break.” — Tex

    Comment 72 I point out how lame comment 67 is.

    Comment 74 “How would you know if it’s lame? I haven’t mocked you yet. 😀 That wasn’t the complete response.” — Tex

    Then crickets. Waiting for the “complete response”. Nothing. Until today when you regurgitate comment 53.

    Here’s the deal. The destruction of Glass-Steagall is what is known as deregulation. The way you correct that is with more regulation. I will concede your point that there are regs on the books not being enforced (the SEC being a prime perp). That being the case, what you should be looking for is accountability on the part of the enforcers.

    What ensures accountability on the part of banks/big business is regulation + enforcement. If the regulations are sufficient as you suggest, then the accountability problem exists with the enforcers.

  173. So let me get this straight weasel. More regulation will insure accountability, even though the regulation currently on the books isn’t being enforced to begin with? That is some stupendous logic on your behalf Poolman, Yeller Dawg, Sandi Hermaphrodite Rutherford.

    Let’s see…

    Prison time, liens on personal property, and making changes to law insuring both regulators and congress play by the same set of rules as the general public has nothing to do with accountability, but adding more law and regulation does. Okay.

    I have two questions:

    (1) Why do we have prisons if they have nothing to do with holding criminals accountable?

    (2) When did you move from simply naive to profoundly stupid?

  174. Tex @ 41- Sorry I missed this the first time. Looks like I missed a lot this weekend, too. Hard to respond when I don’t get a weekend shift at Dairy Queen where I can steal WIFI. 😉

    I don’t get this line –

    “While the second experiment “has made an important test of consistency of its result,” Ferroni added, “a final word can only be said by analogous measurements performed elsewhere in the world.”

    How will an analogous result confirm the findings (twice now) of the most sophisicated instruments in this field? Isn’t it like measuring a water well at 100 GPH and then asking Grandma Josephine to pull out her divining rod and confirm it?

  175. Pretty stupid to put Michelle Obama in front of a NASCAR crowd. I don’t care what the message was, most of them hate her no matter if she speaks or just smiles.

    Yes, we are the NASCAR generation. Mad Max and the Thunderdome. Whether racist or not, most of that crowd has heard and repeated all the criticism publicized regarding her and her actions over the past three years, little, if any poised in a good light. They, on a whole, are soured by her very existence. I think there is an entire faction of the right wing “news” machine that is tasked with painting her ugly, no matter what she does. Many here have “carried that water” for them. Right, Tex? It has been very effective in denigrating her and any accomplishments, adding to the total disgust with the entire administration.

    Too bad. We have no respect for person or position. It is probably just an extension of our disdain for politics and lying politicians who don’t respect us. Or it’s racist. Or both. Sometimes, while watching this train wreck, I’m ready to just fast-forward through the destruction to get on with the rebuilding out of the ashes. Living in America today is many things, but it certainly isn’t boring.

    Karma; the biblical law of reaping and sowing; advice like look before you leap, and what goes around, comes around – all be damned. We’re hell-bent for destruction.

  176. Sometimes, while watching this train wreck, I’m ready to just fast-forward through the destruction to get on with the rebuilding out of the ashes.

    Amen, Poolman.

    There is a large part of me that wants Obama defeated in 2012 because I’m just so sick and tired of the distractions and personal attacks. I don’t mind the policy criticisms of which there are many on this board, some of which I agree with. But I have an awfully hard time seeing the First Lady abused and smeared. She wasn’t elected to office. She is not there by choice (unless you want her to divorce the POTUS). Compared to Hillary Clinton, she has not been an in-your-face First Lady. Hell Hillary crafted health care reform! The boldest thing Michelle has done is suggest people eat right … and regardless of what she eats, it’s still good advice.

    And then Poolman, as you allude to, there is always that damn racial thing floating around. One is never sure, unless they know the heart of the critic, what is at play with some of the more personal critiques. It’s time for America to get back to its old fashioned white President and wait another 30 years when perhaps all of us, white and black, are more mature in dealing with this. 😦

  177. Regulation on the books was written in most cases by the very people it is designed to regulate. And they keep tweaking it.

    We need simplification with transparency and less useless regulation. Businesses should not need to spend so much time and resources traveling through the mazes we’ve created in order to simply prove they are compliant. Let the sunshine in. The proof’s in the pudding. The good tree bears good fruit. The KISS method.

    Stockholders are wanting profits. CEOs are rewarded for delivering them. Shrewd managers are constantly looking at costs. Much of their efforts are in running “legally” around regulation to stay profitable. Anything that negatively affects the bottom line will be subject to reduction and/or elimination, after, of course, the “experts” determine what they can get away with. It is strictly business and ethics usually only matter based on the public exposure or any future disclosure as a potential financial backlash. I would hope there are a handful of honest folk among the psychopaths, though it seems from my outsider’s perspective that those waters are quite murky.

    A free market wants a captive marketplace, which, in essence, makes it anything but. Aside from the expenses of marketing and production, the cost of complying with regulation, along with the agencies involved to regulate and enforce it, and the staff tasked in dealing with it on the business end all end up costing the end user – You and me. Mo money. Mo hands handling the money. We’re living in a sea of middlemen, staying afloat by latching onto whatever is still buoyant.

  178. Thor?

    How will an analogous result confirm the findings (twice now) of the most sophisicated instruments in this field? Isn’t it like measuring a water well at 100 GPH and then asking Grandma Josephine to pull out her divining rod and confirm it?

    I think the divining rod would be something like Fermi Labs. 🙂 Testable, repeatable, observable. But from a physics standpoint, to answer that question is above my pay grade. I really don’t know.

    If memory serves, this is a relatively new facility. I’m sure a part of it is verification of computed results. 60 billionths of a second ain’t much of an error in computation. I’m wondering, and this is a neophytes wild guess, since gravity itself changes a miniscule amount from one point to the next due to distance from center, if maybe small changes might indicate cause and effect – but that is only a guess.

    Kind of like those old Star Trek episodes where they would use the mass of the star to whip themselves around with centrifugal force to speeds faster than normal space would allow. 😈 Time Travel!

    Actually, for a neophyte wannabee physicist, I have found Star Trek scripts (though many times inaccurate) on the bleeding edge of the hypothetical. The author of those scripts must be a neophyte physicist wannabee like me, and did a phenomenal job of blending the hypothetical into the writing. I think that is in large part why Star Trek was and has remained so popular.

  179. There is a large part of me that wants Obama defeated in 2012 because I’m just so sick and tired of the distractions and personal attacks.

    I think I can say this with some authority and agreement from your opponents and detractors of this board. We want Obama defeated too in 2012 in the worst way, so you can get back to what you and your ilk do well – criticize, propagandize and lie without constantly being fact checked when asked to perform. Perform and Obama are antagonistic toward each other – direct opposites. We are fed up with his lying and incompetence.

    I don’t mind the policy criticisms of which there are many on this board, some of which I agree with. But I have an awfully hard time seeing the First Lady abused and smeared.

    From the first time, then thereafter again and again, I haven’t liked that woman since this…

    And her rank hypocrisy about everything since, her profound sense of entitlement and insatiable greed, her derogatory comments when caught off camera, and her shitty disposition and catty ho dress, a national disgrace, have done absolutely nothing to change that feeling.

    She can take her “diet” which she obviously doesn’t hold to and her monumental hatred of America and shove it up her mountainous ass. There is nothing Lady about that lying, inadequate and profane bitch. Millions loathe her, including me.

  180. Here’s another whopper of a lie out of the mouth of Shelly’s mouth

    You see, this is what I mean about stupid distraction. Compared to “first time I’ve been proud … ” this Olympics blunder is petty stupidity on the part of anyone making a big deal out of it. Olga, Nadia and Carl Lewis are not from the same era. The lap comment was obviously referring to Olga and Nadia. Why Michelle tossed Carl Lewis in is beyond me … perhaps because he is black and she wanted to give a shout-out to a brotha.

    I understand the anger at the “proud” comment but then you guys get silly and start dissecting everything that comes out of her mouth. Again, the anger is outsized compared to the provocation. It’s all a part of the cult of Obama-hate, plain and simple.

  181. “You weren’t operating from wisdom but simply from partisan loyalty and allegiance to the conservative ideology. ”

    HOGWASH! Replace “conservative” with “liberal” and “black” and that describes Y-O-U.

    He is exactly what I predicted, Peter Pan.

  182. I can’t wait fro shoes to be thrown at him to the amusement of the right, and a big nah nah nah, hey hey goodbye too!

    For a guy that thinks Cray Larry and Olberdouche are the pinnacle of political commentary you got some balls talking about blind partisanship controlling thought.

    Don’t you have a madman’s shooting to blame on Palin or something?

    Sometimes you are a real piece of work.

    And from what I gather, Gingrich didn’t stray far from some of your own commentary here.

    In the words of Tex: “Eat me!”

  183. Michelle was 12 1/2 when she was sitting Daddy’s lap watching Nadia too. “Her honey, show me your splits. Do a little crossover on daddy’s lap.”

    Kinky….

    Maybe they ought to line her old man up with Jerry Sandusky and do a little investigating. But at least booty call’s old man was straight.

    Fraser, Fraser, Fraser….Bump, bump, bump…

    Phony as hell. Told you so. Best part is Olympic Committee of Dirty Old Men saw through the charade, kicked their ass back to America with their dicks in hand. 🙂

  184. I stand by my Weiner post. Even a perv can make a good point. The loss of Weiner was one of the greatest political tragedies in recent history.

    Give you one thing. Stubborn til the end.

    Jerry Sandusky made some excellent points throughout his career, even did fine charitable work when he wasn’t pumping the little boys, and was one of the best defensive coordinators in America. Beloved, until….

    John Wayne Gacy was a funny clown and made children smile.

  185. “Don’t you have a madman’s shooting to blame on Palin or something?”-Tigre

    Lol.

    Ill never forget that weekend. Rutherford put on his fascist arm band just like MSNBC told him to.

    I was enraged Rutherford could be such a follower at the time.

    Now I kind of feel sorry for him.

    Dude is ALWAYS wrong. ALWAYS.

    A terrible weather “vein”.

    Rutherford doesn’t have “gut reactions” or instincts.

    He merely has MSNBC…..

    ….Followed by a month of looking like a dummy and then a follow up post where he dances the razor edge of an apology for being such a dummy.

    I swear that sums this place up.

    Rutherford, break your chains, maaaaaan.

    Either that or stay the MSNBC eunuch that you are.

  186. Weiner was a complete fucking moron simmering in his own sick pool of narcissism stew.

    Dude. We are lucky as a nation this idiot got nailed before he could do real damage.

    He was so in love with himself, he was sending greco-roman shots of himself to strangers, butt ass naked, using a high resolution medium that alien invaders in the year 7056 AD will laugh at.

    So drunk with self lust, he couldn’t even compute the obvious risk he was putting himself in.

    I’m not talking morality, here. Outright cheating may be worse.

    I’m talking the compulsion and extreme ego-mania.

    Yeah. A tragedy. Ha ha.

  187. At this minute, Rutherford is attuned to Bulldog Ed Schultz.

    Rutherford will be in here tonight after 10:00, after he has listened to Sgt. Schultz, Chaz Maddow, and Scanner Larry O’Donnell – full of spittle, enraged with the latest Chris Hayes Power Point, amazed at their collective brilliance.

    First thing in the morning, Rutherford will be tuned to Morning Joe to listen to Joe, Mike Barnacle, and the blonde airhead whatshername, exchanging Tweets with Bill Maher and the MSNBC chicks – if those are chicks, still chuckling with Bulbous Olbermann. Since Nora O’Donnell left, I’m never sure those are chicks.

    M-F nights Jon Stewart and Bill Maher; Sunday night the Rutherford Lawson show. Saturday night might be his day of rest.

    The Cult of MSNBC, HBO and Comedy Central. His religion, his altar.

    Rutherford desperately needs to become a sport’s fan, so he can waste his entire Saturday in front of the big screen, watching college football and basketball. 🙂 Nothing revives the spirit more!

  188. Lol. I’ve always said R would be a great sports fan.

    Speaking of HBO, anyone watch Boardwalk Empire?

    Sure, its fueled by the same HBO formula that are in all its dramas.

    Always a nod of the cap to the gay crowd. And one token evil Christian teetotaler, as per usual.

    But, as a whole, its bad ass.

    Lucky Luciano is my favorite character.

    Its got all the classic gangsters. The attention to historic detail is top notch.

    My other guilty pleasure is the zombie show, Walking Dead.

  189. Don’t receive HBO, though COX Communications recently offered it to me free for a year. I don’t trust COX communications, as I’m sure there is something in the details that would end up screwing me, so I haven’t taken them up. And I can’t even get to the movies on NetFlix I’ve had queued for months.

    But I did watch the first series of the Walking Dead, and thought it pretty good. However, I started to lose interest at the end, and haven’t watched the new stuff. Pretty good, huh?

  190. No, Walking Dead has consistently gotten worse.

    The show always was pretty bad from the start, really.

    The zombies are cool, though.

    I only watch TV shows sunday night and its my routine, so I keep watching it.

    I pay for HBO because of boxing, as I don’t miss a match.

    They ever wise up and nix boxing, I’m gone. I can’t believe how much HBO pays for these matches that nobody but me and a few Chicanos care about.

  191. I can’t believe how much HBO pays for these matches that nobody but me and a few Chicanos care about.

    😆

    I might pay to watch that Mayweather vs. Pacquiao fight if it happens, if I can find a few buddies to split the outrageous price. But those friends that watched boxing, I haven’t run with in years – I think my wife calls them a “corrupting bad influence.” 😆

    I’ve been taunting the LSU football fans tonight. You talk about a rancid bunch of cajuns. I told them the reason their football team is pretty good, is because God is compensating them for their tainted state of voodoo. They’re enrage now that I’ve called the England soccer hooligans mere schoolboys compared to LSU football fans – and that’s just their women. Real animals – American Taliban.

    They’re better at vile name calling than Poolman. But die hard college football fans are the easiest to rile.

  192. Poolman, Rabbit and I were having a fun conversation. You’re once again become the fly on the hamburger, the turd in the punch bowl, the weevil in the cereal. I wasn’t talking to you. It was my mistake. You’re a complete bore. Nobody likes you. Not even your wife. Maybe Helen and Chatty Kitchen.

    I say this so that it will give Rutherford a chance to say he does, because he needs a blog friend. 😐 Looking at Rutherford’s lovefest with Anthony Weiner, it was fun to read who we have managed to run off. I know a perfect board fit for you. Have you met Sensico? She’s right up your alley.

    I was just making note you were weak in the retort department, and a general pain in the ass. Like a walking, babbling, swollen hemorrhoid.

    This board would be so much better if you would simply make like Santa and leap off your rented roof tonight. Consider it a start on Christmas. And if you can’t fly Rudolph, then you could be one of those modern medical marvel miracles you witness often with Benny Hinn.

  193. Yes, that is a funny scene. They’ve now substituted words in Blazing Saddles on AMC and ruined it. The “n” word. 🙄

    It’s a shame Cleavon Little died so young. He was great.

  194. Yeah. A tragedy. Ha ha.

    Yup, it was. Wiener was one of the most articulate spokesmen of the liberal cause. His take on health insurance was dead-on. His take on GOP hypocrisy dead on.

    But the Rabbit is right. The dude was so self-involved that he couldn’t figure out how stupid it was to broadcast his dick over the net. It’s a case of a great liberal mind wasted because of a stupid obsession.

    It’s one reason why I’m holding back on falling totally in love with Elizabeth Warren. I’ve been burned so many times at this point I just don’t want to take the chance anymore. Hell … maybe I should back Gingrich. He’s a well known hypocritical dickhead so at least I’ll never be disappointed or feel betrayed. 😐

  195. Actually I find it kinda spooky how much some of you sound just like Hannity and Limbaugh though you claim never to watch/listen to them. I don’t apologize for my viewing habits. I watch folks who reenforce my world view. Why wouldn’t I? Besides, as I’ve repeated many times, their track record for blatant lies comes no where near faux news.

    P.S. I don’t watch Ed Schultz as I find him a bit obnoxious. I seldom watch Crazy Larry (maybe twice a month tops). I watch Hardball every night. I watch The Daily Show most nights. I watch Bill Maher every Friday. And wait for it ….. I go to bed with Rachel Maddow almost every week night. I usually fall asleep before her first segment is over. 🙂 Saturday and Sunday mornings I watch Up with Chris Hayes. Sundays I watch This Week with Christiane Amanpour, The Chris Matthews Show and Meet the Press.

    Oh and yes … I watch Morning Joe at breakfast every morning. I need to get my daily dose of conservative ideology from Joe Scarborough but of course you guys think he’s a RINO because he actually makes f*cking sense and doesn’t sound like an extremist lunatic. 👿

    Just so you don’t think I’m totally political … I watch The Sing Off, X Factor, Big Bang Theory, The Middle, Roger Ebert’s movie review show and Bewitched reruns (cos my kid sorta likes them). I also enjoy the occasional SpongeBob SquarePants, Phineas and Ferb and the new Kung Fu Panda series. The joys of living with a seven year old. 🙂

    The final conclusion you should draw from this comment: I watch way too much damn TV.

    OH and Tex if I’m gonna watch sports on TV, I like to watch golf. Most folks find it akin to watching paint dry. I find it very relaxing and enjoyable.

  196. I also love “Chopped” on the Food Network plus Worst Cooks in America and Next Food Network Star. My guilty pleasure is Real Housewives of Atlanta.although I haven’t caught up with the current season yet. I’ll also watch Millionaire Matchmaker every now and then.

    Ah and I left out of my regular viewing habits, the CBS crime drama Person of Interest. NBC’s Prime Suspect is also good.

    If I had my life to live over again, I would either have been a drummer in a rock band or a network programming chief like the legendary Fred Silverman.

  197. My other guilty pleasure is the zombie show, Walking Dead.

    My wife has been watching that and she quite likes it. I’m not a big horror/fantasy/sci-fi fan. In fact when we first got married my wife dragged me kicking and screaming in front of the TV to watch reruns of Star Trek:The Next Generation. I ended up loving it but not for the sci-fi but for the great stories. I like fantasy sci-fi that makes you think about life or challenges your perceptions. That’s why I like the classic Twilight Zone episodes. I guess two exceptions to my fantasy/sci-fi disdain are The Andromeda Strain (one of my all time fav films) and The Planet of the Apes franchise.

  198. it was fun to read who we have managed to run off.

    It’s a shame that Tex takes pride in “running off” people who disagree with him. It’s known as bullying in the real world. And yes, it’s why I’m very grateful for the likes of Poolman and Thor who thus far refuse to be “run off”. Diversity of opinion makes these threads half way interesting. Without it, it just becomes the mirror image of Fat Grannies or the Chatty Kitchen. 😐

  199. “The dude was so self-involved that he couldn’t figure out how stupid it was to broadcast his dick over the net. It’s a case of a great liberal mind wasted because of a stupid obsession.

    It’s one reason why I’m holding back on falling totally in love with Elizabeth Warren.” – R

    Why? Are you afraid she’s going to show her dick to someone too? 😉

  200. R, you really liked Wiener that much? Well then, you’re probably a fan of Alan Grayson. I hear he’s running again in Florida. Sherrod Brown in Ohio is pretty fiesty too. Feingold was of that same mold too. I hear if Walker get’s recalled in Wisconsin that F might run for Governor. Back to Congress for a second, how long do you think Bachman and Paul stay in the nomination race before bailing to go defend their house seats?

  201. “Jerry Sandusky made some excellent points throughout his career, even did fine charitable work when he wasn’t pumping the little boys . . . John Wayne Gacy was a funny clown and made children smile.”

    😆 😆 😆

    Let’s not forget Hitler’s youth scouting program!

  202. R, you sound like the Cable Guy.

    No wonder you take MSNBC seriously. Your mind has turned to mush from staring at your tv screen too long.

    Your comment about MSNBC “reinforcing” your views reminds of the Cosby line when he asked a coke-head “why” he did cocaine. The answer was that it “enhanced his personality.” Cosby said “yeah, but you’re an asshole.”

    Now what will we do about you and MSNBC?

  203. Wasn’t Jon Corzine one of your MSNBC pundits?

    Yeas. Yeah he was.

    Back to our plagiarist Barnacle carrying the Biden/Kennedy torch. MSNBC, what would we do without ye? 🙄

  204. One of my employees in our little publishing company did that and sent it to me.

    I’d spank her for wasting company time, but she’d like it too much.

  205. It’s a shame that Tex takes pride in “running off” people who disagree with him. It’s known as bullying in the real world. And yes, it’s why I’m very grateful for the likes of Poolman and Thor who thus far refuse to be “run off”.

    It has nothing to do with pride. It was an observation. You always assume the worst. I was talking about Densico. ♥♥♥ I’m sorry from the bottom of my heart. ♥♥♥.

    What makes you think I’m trying to run “Thor” off? He’s sometimes funny, interesting, has some of my same personal likes and dislikes, and doesn’t take it personal when we make fun of him, knowing fully well he doesn’t know whether he’s talking to Saint Tex, or Axe Murderer Tex – and neither do we. Like you used to be before Barack was demonstrated a fraud, and you’ve slowly reverted back into a little weasel and punk when things don’t go your way.

    Poolman is just a pest with nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing, to add. If you think charges of government murder on a mass scale, fraudulent anti-Semitic nature, mindless conspiracy theories always attempting to cast America in the worst light, and blatant anti-Americanism is a testament to the greatness of your board, who am I to argue? Except about your sanity.

    But don’t blame me when the dunce comes in looking for a fight and insults, then one of us returns fire, then the idiot gets his ass handed to him each. And certainly don’t call me a bully for returning insult for insult.

    If you want a board made up of brainless automatons, then say as much Helen. The last year, virtually the only time you’ve responded to my questions was with some lame personal attack or insult, seldom relevant to any question. Do you see me wilt, or whine, or cry? Boo hoo hoo, sob, sob, sob.

    As usual, your criticism only applies out of one eye. Other than your consistent allowance for free speech, incredibly rare for a liberal, I have found your personal judgment poor, grossly unfair, biased, and preconceived. Tigre is right – you read like a script of an MSNBC program.

    If you can’t handle the criticism or don’t like my commentary, and if you want it to turn a different direction of sycophantic rim licking like most Lib blogs ala Fat Grannies or Stonewall Jim’s, those who can dish it out in big scoops but can’t take it, then say as much.

    I will certainly comply and you can have your beloved Densico back, perhaps even Fake and Graychin, restoring Rutherford Lawson to its original greatness of seven repetitious comments of mindless liberal news speak a week.

    But I would note that didn’t work very well for Graychin’s den.

  206. Huck, they’re fluing AQ flags in Cairo.

    The current unrest is being whipped up by the MB to ensure the military is not in a position to trump them.

    I’m sorry, you don’t know who’s gonna win this any more than anyone else.

    This isn’t about Islamophobia, its about political Islam and that should concern you.

  207. Adding to the love fest…

    I love the Newt cartoon. 😆 The article is okay, too.

    The calculus is that Romney has all the money he needs—an estimated quarter-trillion private fortune—so once Willard’s obtained the one thing his money has not yet been able to buy, he can’t be trusted to invariably choose what’s best for the Party over what’s best for his personal political career (as in “Romneybamacare”). But Gingrich is an established whore, with no private assets or abilities other than shilling for his Party masters, so the Koch brothers can feel secure that Newt will do as he’s paid, however degrading or undignified their requests.

    http://www.balloon-juice.com/2011/11/19/newt-gingrich-serving-his-party/

  208. Huck, in a lot of ways you are an enigma wrapped in a puzzle inside a conundrum. You have a real hypersensitivity to what you refer to as “Islamophobia” — even to the point of outrage over my mocking failed terrorists and IED planting Jihadis. What gives? It seems to personal to me to be connected to mere academic pursuits. Are you Islamic?

    (I don’t mean my questions to be insulting. They are sincere.)

  209. I find it hard to believe somebody is calling Newt Gingrich a whore, but licks the balls of the abject failure Barack Obama in the voting booth, and has stated he will do it again.

    That whore, and Barack ain’t a cheap whore, is actually utilizing the NBA lockout to raise funds for his personal campaign with a pick up basketball game to the tune of $5,000 a courtside seat. Not charity, or entertainment, or even to entertain children – for his war chest. It doesn’t get any worse than that in the field of excessive whoring.

    And you want to call Newt Gingrich a whore and tell me the Dimocratic party is for the “little man”? Please…. 🙄

  210. Regarding 271, Thor I found a distinct difference between Wiener and Grayson. Grayson to me was all fire, no substance. Wiener on the contrary, I always felt could get into the woods on issues, could get detailed when he wanted to. I felt Grayson was a flame thrower and nothing more.

    Ron Paul, if I’m not mistaken, has already announced he’s not running for reelection to the House. Bachmann is another story. She’ll have to figure out if she can run for the House and do her full book tour at the same time. 😉 By the way, I saw a clip of her on Jimmy Fallon last night and she was actually quite good.

    As far as Elizabeth Warren … yes with my luck with liberals over the past few years, she probably is hiding a dick in her pants. The minute I jump on board the train with a liberal conductor the damn train derails. 😦

  211. What makes you think I’m trying to run “Thor” off? He’s sometimes funny, interesting, has some of my same personal likes and dislikes, and doesn’t take it personal when we make fun of him,

    Thanks Tex.

  212. Regarding 279, Tex what about diversity of opinion eluded you in my earlier comment? You’re part of that diversity. Losing you would admittedly make this board far less entertaining. But be honest, you DO get a charge when you think you’ve intimidated folks not to come back here (Sensico, Graychin, Fakename2). You view it as the ultimate vindication that your position is right and theirs is wrong. Am I really misreading that?

    As for my not answering your comments, wow do I call BS on that one. In fact sometimes I worry that I address too many of my responses to you at the expense of others on the board.

    And of course I’ve gotten used to the fact that whenever I concede anything about Obama I’m a reasonable liberal and whenever I defend him I’m a punk. LOL so be it.

  213. Yeah Tigre I’d already read that Krauthammer piece. I’ll say this for Krauthammer, he seems intelligent as opposed to Michelle Malkin who seems just snarky.

    The country is in a mess. While it may or may not be true that Obama needs to go, it is clear as day that Congress needs to go.

  214. On 284, damn Poolman that was a money quote!!! Newt clearly is a whore and a whore will do what she’s told to keep the money flowing. Romney can march to his own drummer. VERY interesting take on things.

  215. “While it may or may not be true that Obama needs to go, it is clear as day that Congress needs to go.”

    You’re only half right on that.

  216. R, the house has sent budgets, spending proposals and tax reforms to the Senate. Every single one of them have been blocked by Harry Reid- who will not even allow a vote on the issues.

    You complain about a do nothing Congress, butb the only part of it that is not doing anything is… wait for it… the Senate, which YOUR party controls. So explain to me, how is it the Republicans fault when they have submitted legislation and constitute 1/2 of 1/3 of the federal government when the Dems control 1 1/2 of the 3 branches?

    I think you, like the rest of us, recognize the falacy of your argument.

  217. Are you Islamic?

    LOL …. well of course Huck would HAVE to be a Muslim to be able to spot Islamaphobia when he sees it. 😆

    I’ll grant you this much Tigre, Huck is that very rare combination of social moderate and fiscal conservative. Sometimes the heat of his anti-Obama rhetoric takes me aback because I view him as quite compassionate in a number of areas. But Huck demonstrates that folks are complicated. I like that about him and about most folks in general. I have little patience for cookie-cutter automatons like Elric.

  218. Tex, slightly amusing story about Marx visiting OWS. A bit over-long for me … I started just skimming. Two thoughts came to mind:

    First, the worst nightmare for this government and for your ideology is the Tea Party and OWS joining forces. It’s not out of the question. There have already been productive exchanges in Memphis.

    The other thing that struck me reading the story was the phrase “abandoned their jobs”. Now I haven’t read any Rand but isn’t it the premise of Ayn Rand that business owners get fed up and just stop working? Wouldn’t it be an interesting twist to her story if WORKERS got fed up and just stopped working and the unemployed just got fed up and stopped looking for work … and they all took to the street demanding change.

    Conservatives like Gingrich like to talk about job creators and exalt bosses to some pedestal but a company is only as good as its workers. A huge general strike demanding change. Maybe that’s the kind of chaos this country needs for Congress to get its head out of its ass and start doing something.

  219. Who’s the cookie cutter? Listen, there is a serious issue right now in the Middle East and North Africa. None of you jackasses who supported Obama on this little adventure can tell me who he was supporting with OUR military.

    Likewise, several of us raised serious concerns about Egypt and Tunisia, specifically about radical Islamist organizations taking power. We were told, ‘oh don’t worry’. Now we’re seeing these groups flex collective muscles to enforce their radical agendas.

    Until you can tell me who these folks are, I’d suggest you talk a lot less and read a lot more.

  220. Conservatives like Gingrich like to talk about job creators and exalt bosses to some pedestal…” – R

    You mean like put a CEO who has shipped some 30,000 jobs over seas and has paid no taxes in charge of the Presidents domestic job creation?

  221. OWS heckeled Ron Paul last night.

    Now that is a dilemma. It’s not in OWS interest to heckle Ron Paul as of all the GOP Pres wanna-be’s he probably comes closest to their ideology, especially when it comes to the Military Industrial Complex.

    I watched a compilation of Paul’s comments at the Family forum the other night and he does have one rhetorical Achilles heel. The man rambles. He truly does sound a bit like a rambling grandpa.

  222. I think you, like the rest of us, recognize the falacy of your argument.

    What’s my argument G? I said Congress has to go. I made no partisan statement … and sorry, by Congress I meant the legislative branch — House + Senate. I wasn’t singling out the House.

    You’re absolutely right about the Senate. No budget in over 900 days. It’s an abomination.

  223. Who’s the cookie cutter?

    G, lower the dose on your sensitivity pills. I said Elric because I meant Elric. If I wanted to say Gorilla, I would have said that. Even though I strongly disagree with much of your politics, I find you somewhat nuanced and I respect your access to info that I, frankly, don’t have.

    Maybe I’m suffering from amnesia but I don’t recall taking any stance on Tunisia. I’ve always been a bit puzzled why we turned on Mubarek. I’ve been VERY skeptical about our activity in Libya and quite frankly feel Gadaffi was murdered when he should have been captured and tried.

    On the other hand, I agree with Huck that just because a nutjob Muslim has some support within Egypt (according to Huck it’s single digits) doesn’t mean I need to fly into a panic about Egypt’s future. The plot has not been fully written yet.

    And another thing, all this “Iran is going nuclear” reminds me so much of Iraq’s nonexistent WMD’s. My big worry about Romney or Gingrich as POTUS is we’ll have troops on the ground in Iran before you can say “Jackie Robinson”. I’ve already heard an alternative explanation for some of Iran’s explosives testing … it’s to produce “micro-diamonds”. Not a damn thing to do with building a bomb. That may or may not be true but I’m telling you .. I see Iraq all over again.

  224. You mean like put a CEO who has shipped some 30,000 jobs over seas and has paid no taxes in charge of the Presidents domestic job creation?

    Agreed, another Obama clusterf*ck at the very least from an optics perspective. Obama consistently fails at optics. Totally tone deaf.

  225. You know R, one of things that bothers me the most about the left’s child-like fascination with Obama (then and now) is how “un-American” his ascendancy was. You accuse your conservative commentators of blinders. But looking back, the irrational adoration for Obama is downright surreal.

    Now, what I mean by “un-American” is the investment in “the man” rather the institution, followed by the predictable shift to “government” over the individual. The outcome so predictable, yet to this day you cover over your own naivete with the charge that we “didn’t really see it coming, we were just ideologues” (to paraphrase).

    Of this I am sure: if the founding father’s witnessed the Obama campaign they would’ve wept. The worship, the fawning, the foam columns, the accusations of racism directed at his detractors, the impossible promises and empty rhetoric, the complicit media, the Nobel Prize, my favorite — the speech in Berlin etc. What aspect of our country’s philosophical underpinnings are compatible with this?

    Make no mistake, I saw it from a mile, and I was repulsed every inch of the way. It’s troubling to me that someone with your brainpower didn’t sense something wrong with your cult-like expectations — even if subconsciously. In fact it worries me to greater and greater degree as our situation grows more and more dire. You don’t see clearly.

    It’s time to grow up R. Quit confusing liberal politics with virtue. It is not. Once you realize it, you won’t be so frequently burned.

    I assure you, Obama will be relived to be “relieved.” He doesn’t really want the job and he’s certainly not up to the task. This country cannot withstand his brand of “leadership” any longer anyway. Once you give up your quest for validation it will be easier for you to evaluate things really stand with a clear head.

  226. R, your 296 isn’t at all what I was getting at. As usual, you project evidence of “compassion” and “intolerance” onto an inanimate object (metaphorically speaking).

    Huck, my inquiry was sincere. Please don’t allow R to cheapen it with his usual devices.

  227. You view it as the ultimate vindication that your position is right and theirs is wrong. Am I really misreading that?

    If running liberal bullies off is my ultimate vindication, how is it you think Graychin made his way here in the first place? Have you forgotten I asked you if I could invite the schmuck here? He was here solely on account of my request, because he had no idea you existed until that moment.

    You want to know why those people really left? When you sift through and remove the rabble and the ad hominem of the Rutherford Lawson blog, and that insulting works both ways, the three you named can’t tolerate operating in an open forum without controlling the environment and the dialogue. That’s why they left. They were weak – bullying by nature, but too weak to defend their idiocy inadequately. Add to the fact, they found antagonists that not only don’t intimidate, but thrive in that environment, and it was predictable they would hightail or wear down.

    Jim Dougan didn’t leave. Curator only left because he got busy and still appears occasionally. Thor appears to hold his own. You’re not reading the tea leaves properly.

    ————-

    Let me say something serious for a minute.

    I need no vindication, as the last three years a historical testimony to the wrongness of your every position. Liberalism has now failed in every facet, in every regard. America is damaged goods, indebted to the point I don’t believe she will ever recover. Neither does she hold the respect she once did, and Obama, while promising otherwise, has proven an incredibly ineffective leader by pacifying our enemies and insulting our allies. He has damaged America’s reputation far more than George Bush ever did. Has there ever been a time in our recent history that our enemies laughed at us, ridiculed us?

    This Arab Spring liberals celebrate? The beginning, leading to Armageddon. There will be less freedom, where little existed before. And what concerns me is the men that most likely will take the position of Obama will inherit a problem far more dangerous, and far more difficult to quantify or qualify than the shared fiasco of a real estate bubble of our own making. We aren’t talking about failed mortgages; I speak of universal war with people who will have no compunction of using nuclear weapons to murder as many innocents as possible, invoking ubiquitous fear.

    You and your persuasion had complete authority, and you had your chance at the worst possible time. America was hoodwinked. And I told you at Chen’s blog long ago you would fail miserable when asked to perform. It is on record.

    Liberalism is based on a false premise, and was doomed to failure from the very start. It’s a pipe dream and a ruse, and it always caters to the lowest common denominator of human nature. If you want to see progressivism, take a good look at OWS, or Detroit, or Oakland, or perhaps the most glaring example of them all, New Orleans. New Orleans was not the fault of George Bush anymore than Katrina was – that was 70 years of corrupt, Democratic politics, creating a class of helpless, mindless, completely dependent people on the gov’t dole. Grown, healthy men who stood in waist high water and cried for help while letting their own drown? Are you kidding me? George Bush was convenient fodder – the problem was New Orleans. And nothing has changed since 2005. It will happen again.

    If for no other reasons than selfish, you desperately need to reflect where you stand in this life. You’re a highly intelligent man. But that doesn’t mean you’re still not a fool. There is no way I am following your lead.

    Our views are diametrically opposed and mutually exclusive. Both can’t be right. And to compromise assures failure for all of us – hence, at present the stalemate. But it was compromise of our principles that led to this point.

  228. Tigre I’m pretty sure Huck has no religious affiliation, which gives him the clarity of mind to see all of them with warts and virtues.

    He doesn’t really want the job

    On that, Tigre I’ve come to agree with you. I don’t sense he’s having a very good time and if you believe folks with better access like Chris Matthews, the man is actually pretty miserable. He doesn’t like dealing with politicians. LOL Funny if it weren’t so tragic.

    I have no understanding why he’s seeking reelection. It’s been thankless from day 1. I’m also very frustrated that there are no alternative liberal voices to listen to. That is why I’ve wanted him to get primaried.

    A quick anecdote: One thing that thrilled me about Obama’s ascendancy was that my father (now 83) would get to see something he never dreamed he’d see, a black man become POTUS. But you wanna know something funny? My sister and I had to pester my Dad into voting. He had no enthusiasm for it and in fact, disliked Obama personally. “He reminds me of Malcolm X.” LOL Maybe my Dad’s instincts were better than mine?

    There were those who experienced “Camelot”, looked at Obama and said “been there done that.” I on the other hand didn’t experience it. I was born too late. Obama was my inspirational leader. He was my Kennedy. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again … I’m disappointed.

  229. “Tigre I’m pretty sure Huck has no religious affiliation, which gives him the clarity of mind to see all of them with warts and virtues.”

    R, you can’t help yourself, can you? 🙄 Whether or not Huck is religious is not the real inquiry. My perception of hypersensitivity is. I see no clarity in Huck’s reaction to Gorilla’s video or surrounding comments. There has certainly been a good but since too.

  230. the three you named can’t tolerate operating in an open forum

    Without TOTALLY agreeing with you, I will concede that it is inherently intimidating to some folks to see that they cannot depend on censorship or banning to protect their views. I honestly don’t think the three you mention necessarily fall in that category but you are right that this is a tough forum. The blog owner ain’t gonna do too much wrist slapping and you better learn to chew ass just as quickly as you get your ass chewed.

    There will be less freedom, where little existed before.

    I believe that can be said of both Iraq and Afghanistan, both Bush’s experiment at “spreading democracy”, 😕

  231. BTW Tex, I won’t argue that Gray followed you here but I honestly don’t recall being asked my “permission” to let him in although I was happy for his presence and I do hear from him regularly via e-mail. 🙂

    P.S. As for YellowDog … verged on a liberal version of Elric. But since it was liberal it was easier for me to tolerate. 😀

  232. R, you can’t help yourself, can you? 🙄

    Now you KNOW I can’t!!!! 😆

    There has certainly been a good but since too.

    I speak fluent typo but what the hell was that?

    OK, I’ll be interested to see Huck’s response.

  233. Man, I swear, this see saw market is a gift for a guy like me.

    Market booms because the dolts want to pretend Europe is fixed. Short it.

    Silver gets its ass kicked? Buy the ETF on steroids or calls.

    I don’t have much to play with and am sometimes handcuffed.

    But, I can’t believe how easy it is to nibble a couple hundred bucks a weeks supplemental income off this market.

    Sometimes I’m only working with a grand in my account!

    Money for nothing and your chicks for free…

    Ok, no chicks, but damn. This aint workin’….

  234. Well, typo is my native language.

    “There has certainly been a good but since too.”

    tr: There has certainly been a good bit too. (e.g. fair amount, a lot, considerable, plethora, shit pot).

  235. Tigre,

    Since Rutherford pissed me off, I went looking for that email and decided it was going to be a hassle to retrieve it as it on a different machine, so I never bothered. Guess I’ll have to live with being unable to disprove Rutherford’s hearsay – but I still believe I am right. Unless Rutherford had some huge in with Graychin (and I doubt it, as Graychin paranoid), Graychin doesn’t share his real name, assuming the lady who sent me the email was right. That much I do remember. It was not Michael Graychin.

    The timing wasn’t fortuitous….

    About a year ago, I would still use a desktop for my computer to play on the internet and receive email. I kept my school computer clean. But my mailbox had gotten so large, even with archiving, I decided when I copied the mailbox to my new computer, just family members and a few friends would be imported to my current inbox to start fresh. I left the old computer gathering dust.

    When I disassembled my house just a few weeks ago when the floors were refinished, I never bothered even hooking the old computer, and I given my monitor to my neighbor. 😡

    It would require me to finagle with some old hardware, and I just said “to hell with it…” I would love to burn Rutherford’s rear end and prove me right, but not for that much work.

  236. Even in my most disrespectful moment, I still remember it is your blog Rutherford. This ain’t Fat Grannies, where I purposely torment the lying authors and defecate on their censorship. Only the very most vile deserve that treatment.

    I won’t argue that Gray followed you here but I honestly don’t recall being asked my “permission” to let him in although I was happy for his presence and I do hear from him regularly via e-mail.

    Don’t you remember me ranting here on your blog, Graychin not only censoring my comments, but editing them? He was such a lying bastard too. Now you know why his only friend was Yeller Dawg (and you 🙂 ). That pushed me over the top. He ended up doing the same thing to Huck and Tigre, if I remember. I think the reason I abhorred that man, is he reminded me of this little punk that bloodied my nose in high school once, and before I was given the chance to retaliate and possibly break his neck, the P.E. teachers intervened and I never got a chance to really hurt him.

    I guess I should thank you for finally providing a forum to cuss that worthless bastard. Every time I pissed him off, it was like a dose of morphine. He’s the one person I think I can actually say with confidence, I did wish ill will. I’m working on it Poolman, I’m working on it.

  237. Tigre I’m pretty sure Huck has no religious affiliation, which gives him the clarity of mind to see all of them with warts and virtues.

    I disagree. I find that gives one absolutely no clarity as the virtues are learned from the experience of participation. Reading the Bible no more makes me saved, then shaking hands with an Imam makes me Muslim.

    Only with religion Rutherford, would you come to such an asinine conclusion. It’s your own personal form of bias, as you try to justify in your liberal and godless persuasion of the fallibility and uselessness of religion – perhaps even the danger of religion. If you can state emphatically “they’re basically all the same”, then you can justify about anything and minimize their importance.

    I doubt you would look at somebody completely apolitical and stay, “it gives them clarity of mind to see all parties with their warts and virtues.” I find it more likely you would say, “the are uninformed and not the people one should be asking about pros and cons of representative government.”

  238. Guess I’ll have to live with being unable to disprove Rutherford’s hearsay

    What silliness. There’s no hearsay about it. Usually if you connect with someone on Facebook you know their real name. I am NOT connected with Gray on Facebook so I readily admit I do not 100% know his real name. However, from his correspondence (which is NOT signed Michael Graychin) I get the feeling it is his real name. (For one thing, it bears two names … I assume he and his wife.) And even if he is using his real name in his correspondence with me, that doesn’t mean he used his real name on a letter to the Editor to TulsaWorld. So could Tex be right? Sure he could. Do I think he is right, no I don’t. Why? Because as I said earlier HUNDREDS of people use the rhetoric found in that note. F*ck, I could have written the damn note. The note as I recall, had no particular nor peculiar style that would make anyone say “oh that HAS to be person X”.

    I think it is Tex’s wishful thinking but who really cares. The bottom line is whoever wrote the letter, you guys find it asinine. So enjoy your gloating and stop obsessing over who wrote it.

    Jeesh!!!

  239. Don’t you remember me ranting here on your blog, Graychin not only censoring my comments, but editing them?

    Oh yeah, that I do remember. The claim from several of you was that Gray and/or Dog exerted considerable “editorial control”.

    The one thing I am thankful for is WordPress’s Akismet utility that keeps true SPAM out of the comments section. I cross post my stuff to a couple of other forums and on one of them they seem to have no SPAM filter so I get pure stupid sh*t in the comments section, blatant advertisements that have no relation to the article. Very frustrating.

  240. If any of you non-bloggers ever break down and start one, I heartily recommend WordPress, either the free one (this one .com) or the paid one (.org). Either platform is in my humble opinion the best blogging platform out there.

    If I achieve anything at all by this endeavor it will be to finally inspire one of you opinionated yahoos to start your own production. I think I can safely say it brings BiW, Gorilla, Alfie and the other bloggers here, the same satisfaction it brings me.

  241. Not to make too fine point of it, but saying someone is “godless” is like saying they are unicornless or “tooth fairyless” or “dragonless.”

    The absence of imaginary things is not the same as the absence of real things – and thus, no liability. In fact, having a clean slate in one’s mind is far preferable to having it cluttered with ghouls, demons, gods and faeries when one is trying to find the objective truth.

    Well, I could be wrong about the faeries.

    In the same vein, being politically convicted can be a good thing, but if one has no particular conviction – except to the truth – then he is is far more likely to be a good judge of what is real and what is bullshit – certainly a lot more likely than the fellow who is convinced that his side always has a monopoly on the truth.

  242. I doubt you would look at somebody completely apolitical and stay, “it gives them clarity of mind to see all parties with their warts and virtues.” I find it more likely you would say, “the are uninformed and not the people one should be asking about pros and cons of representative government.”

    I’d alter your statement slightly. I believe that Independents are more likely to have clarity of mind. Now being independent is not the same as being apolitical. I do believe I am too deeply entrenched in liberal philosophy to have full clarity just as I believe you have a blind spot a mile wide.

    It is NEVER good to be too ideological. The truth never exists on the extremes. It’s always in that grey area. I have not yet declared a party affiliation in Illinois but I am thinking very seriously of registering independent. Sadly that would give me zero influence in primaries.

  243. In the same vein, being politically convicted can be a good thing, but if one has no particular conviction – except to the truth – then he is is far more likely to be a good judge of what is real and what is bullshit – certainly a lot more likely than the fellow who is convinced that his side always has a monopoly on the truth.

    Our comments, Pfesser, passed each other through the ether. You said it much better than I did. Well done.

  244. I like Obama and his family. I think they are good people. I think Obama has fought to try and get around his financial backers while still mostly putting on a smiling face for the public.

    I get the impression he often bites his tongue when talking publicly without a teleprompter. He’s a politician, and very human. Pride is big part of politics. It often isn’t the only weakness, but usually the easiest to exploit. Politicians cannot be open and honest at all times or about all things. It will set them up to fall and be blackmailed (Wiener, Spitzer) or sometimes even killed (Kennedy, Wellstone). It most definitely is high stakes territory.

    The last presidential campaign was emotionally charged and the nation was exuberant when Obama was elected – except McCain supporters. I don’t know how many admit to being that still. Rest assured, we WOULD be in Iran already if McCain or Palin was POTUS. The deficit would be at least as high and any shred of tax monies attributed to social programs remaining would be in the cross-hairs.

    Young people WERE excited about politics and even the general public was psyched about voting. The internet was very useful to the campaign and the youth were about exploiting that.

    In November 2008, there was a euphoria that went around the globe when Obama won. Oppressed people everywhere sighed in relief.

    Now, that sense of euphoria has been completely quashed. Coming into office we experienced a mere shuffling of key figures with key policies remaining the same. To me, that says more about how much clout the “most powerful leader of the world” really has. He can’t even get his appointments filled, three years in! How are you supposed to function?

    We fought a major health care battle which really created a greater partisan divide, energizing the TPM. Democrats floundered in self-absorption, ineffectual at change or action. A few watered down token liberal deals passed to appease the peeps. Beyond that, it’s been full speed ahead in neofascist form.

    I am not surprised if Obama wants out. I don’t think they’ll let him out unless he loses the election. He’s probably torn. The bankers put him in and expect things done a certain way. The people wanted him there by popular vote and he has tried to get things done through normal channels. Little good has actually survived committee. He has complied, for the most part it seems with his corporate supporters, though they know his heart isn’t in it. Mostly he has been ineffectual, and that because he has had no cooperation, and more than that he’s had continual opposition.

    After the Bush administration’s gutting of our rights and enabling the reshuffling of our national wealth, power structure, and involvement globally, we needed that sigh of relief. I think the backers of Obama considered that as to appease us for a little longer while the pillaging and plundering of our resources could continue without opposition. Now we’ve again reached a point where pacifying the people will require either greater acts of staged terrorism, or a continued ramp up the police enforcement as witnessed with the latest OWS protests.

    They win if Romney or Obama get in, though Romney will make it much easier to implement their policies and control. The gamble now is to see if order can be maintained long enough to get us to the 2012 elections, or if martial law will ensue.

  245. To say there is no “godless” is to say there is no “godly.” No Rutherford, Pfesser told you just want you wanted to hear. And once again, like a dumb beast of burden, you are led by the nose, down the yellow brick road.

    ———-

    On occasion Rutherford, Pfesser has been note to quote on Helen’s blog from the book of Proverbs when it suits him. I wonder if he is familiar with this verse?

    Proverbs 11:9
    With their mouths the godless destroy their neighbors, but through knowledge the righteous escape.

    Or perhaps, you might feel Pfesser a better source of historical reference, truth and importance than say St. Paul?

    2 Timothy 2:16
    Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.

    I think Pfesser is a perfect example of the latter.

    So, you can see Rutherford, your admiration of Pfesser’s “brilliance” points you toward a man that is a mass of contradictions. What I have quoted for you here is hardly of unicorns, or fairies, or “dragonless.” It comes from the most published, scrutinized book in history, not some worn down neopagan’s opinion, who will soon revert back to dust and be quickly forgotten. The word godless in used at a minimum of 21 times in the Old and New Testament alone.

    The bottom line is this Rutherford. Your mindset, your conclusions, are by definition like that of Pfesser’s, and call Jesus Christ a liar and a mad man. That is not debatable. And you need not say you won’t do that if the conclusion so glaring. It doesn’t need to be said – assumed is more than enough. Omission changes nothing. Nothing….

    Because I have absolutely no trouble calling Mohammad a liar, a tyrant, a pedophile, and a mad man. And I would certainly expect anybody reading this board to assume as much. I would call Pfesser basically the same, but he doesn’t rate. He’s a garden variety scoffer and fool with little argument, other than his own arrogance and professional credential. Ho hum – there are a million just like him, infinitely more talented at debating the question.

  246. Poolman, you’re going to have to decide which bandwagon to jump off of. OWS heckeled Ron Paul last night. Will you choose sides?

    Since OWS is not a consistent bloc ideologically or politically, I don’t have too much concern with them heckling Ron Paul. Some of them support him. Others want to do away with all politics and politicians. Some support Obama. Some hate Michael Moore and some think he’s great. He got both applause and heckling. It’s a mixed bag.

    One problem we have is we want to get behind a person. A leader. It is a weakness in us that wants that. Like when Israel asked for a king. They were giving up personal freedom. We do the same by putting all our hopes behind an individual, no matter how majestic he or she looks. Humans don’t handle power well. We get embarrassed when they screw up and end up hating them or covering their flaws. We can’t accept that they are human and fallible.

    So, though right now RP is my choice, I don’t think he is the ideal. There is no ideal in this life. It is in continually striving in that direction that makes us sharp. I could still vote Obama, if it comes to a choice between him and Romney.

  247. It is NEVER good to be too ideological. The truth never exists on the extremes.

    Non sequitur. Truth is not an extreme. It needs no monopoly, because it is, just as God’s name is I AM.

    It either is, or it isn’t.

    And you won’t get that either. 🙂

  248. Moderation is the ideal dose for entertainment, exercise, diet, sex, and enjoyment. And that is the truth. But the choice remains to moderate or not moderate. It is one or the other.

    “A man can no more diminish God’s glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word ‘darkness’ on the walls of his cell.” ~ C.S. Lewis

    Keep scribbling Pfesser and Rutherford, for what good it will do you. 😉

  249. The global elite see themselves as the deciders and a militarized fascist police force protecting their interests but never underestimate the power of the people, armed with the truth, demanding the change that was never delivered and willing to shut down the machinery of government in the process.

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/11/21/ows-meets-police-state-the-revolution-has-begun/

    The more the Occupy Wall Street movement grows , the more apparent becomes the police state that has emerged from the Patriot Act ~ and the more obvious becomes the real reason for its formation ~ to protect the global elite from the people armed with the truth.

    I snagged this Bill Moyers clip from there. I think it is good.

  250. But the choice remains to moderate or not moderate. It is one or the other.

    This is true. Once we reach an age of responsibility, whatever that may be, we should be able to make that choice by ourselves, without the consent of others as long as that decision does no harm to others.

  251. “Since OWS is not a consistent bloc ideologically or politically, I don’t have too much concern with them heckling Ron Paul.” – P

    In the interest of full disclosure, I saw later that they heckeled Obama too. What is with the new avatar? Is that a Che-Vendetta Dude hybrid?

  252. “Or perhaps, you might feel Pfesser a better source of historical reference, truth and importance than say St. Paul?”

    I am, not because of superior intellect, but because we can be sure of my existence. See Descartes, cogito ergo ZOOM!

    “2 Timothy 2:16
    Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.

    I think Pfesser is a perfect example of the latter.”

    No, but that bibble quote is a perfect example of a tautology – by definition a logical fallacy. “If twenty guests come to my party, there will be twenty guests at my party.”

    Wasn’t Timothy an old Rupert Holmes song?

  253. Not tautology, but evidence of confirmation by both old and new that you are condemned and a a fool.

    As you are sure of your existence, I am equally sure of your eventual death. 😉

  254. This notion of diminishing God’s glory is kinda silly. One can either believe in Him, not believe in Him or be unsure. The folks in either of the first two camps are unlikely to get converts into the opposing camp. Tex, you believe in God. How can Pfesser’s non-belief diminish God’s glory? You still believe. What Pfesser believes is irrelevant.

  255. Where did I say Pfesser could diminish God’s glory? 😆

    My Lord. You’re starting to believe yourself Obama, or something? Completely deluded. I think C.S. Lewis said just the opposite, champ.

    What you need is to juxtapose your banner with some Styrofoam columns, and put the laurel wreath around the title. 😈 Enhance your glory…

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