Why Contemporary Liberals Frustrate the Crap out of Conservatives

June 30, 2009 at 4:52 pm 158 comments

Several weeks ago, one of my readers posted a link to an article that attempted to empirically prove that Islam is a dangerous religion. While I reject the article’s conclusion, a part of it did resonate with me.

Do you ever read something and a light goes off in your head and you say “wow, that’s me!” The author, David Steinberg (not the comedian), specifies what he believes to be the dividing point between classical liberals and contemporary liberals:

Liberalism withholds judgment until finding an answer bulletproofed by logic and reason, and this practice is nothing less than the bedrock of the first world.

I am of course referring to classical liberalism, now tragically mistitled conservatism. The half-philosophy known as the Left co-opted that most precious word, liberty, then stopped reading at “withholds judgment.”

He goes on to say:

Technically, the Left preaches that the most enlightened human behavior is to withhold judgment in favor of first concluding a thorough self-examination. But that self-examination process — the perfecting of America and the West prior to judging another culture — can never conclude. There will always be a poor decision, a misguided decision, or a failed policy enacted by democratically elected officials. A Donald Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam.

Our country is run by a marketplace of ideas. Some will win support and be proven right and some will win support and be proven wrong. Representatives will be voted in and out, the future will always remain unknown, and our leaders will continually take risks with our direction. So withholding judgment in favor of a thorough self-examination becomes a fraud, a half-measure. It becomes a permanently withheld judgment, which is no approach at all. Just a worthless, subjective, illogical philosophy of government, a perennial invocation of “this sentence is false,” to the point that a definable Leftist international policy does not, in fact, exist.

Yes folks, I saw myself so clearly in that analysis. My point of view has always been to look to oneself for fault before blaming others. I had to chuckle at how Mr. Steinberg had so accurately nailed one aspect of the modern American liberal. What’s more, it gave me insight into why I (and my fellow liberals) enrage conservatives. It is as much frustration as it is rage. I see it in the comments section of this blog all the time. Readers who give me credit for having at least half a brain, cannot fathom how I come to the conclusions that I do.

What conservatives, and Mr. Steinberg, fail to see is how the other extreme is just as dangerous if not more so. When you begin from the premise that you are unquestionably “right” and therefore the fault must lie with the “other”, there is no room for discussion, for compromise, for empathy or for anything remotely resembling “relationship”. The only logical conclusion is for the right party to defeat the wrong party. The consequence of this philosophy is that all conflicts must be resolved by confrontation. All enemies must either be ignored (like “lazy welfare mothers” in the inner city) or vanquished, like the regimes of Iran and North Korea. No room for conversation. Right is right, wrong is wrong and that’s that.

This difference between extreme conservative thought and extreme liberal thought is irreconcilable. The extreme conservative refuses self examination and the extreme liberal gets so bogged down in it as to become ineffective.

While I think the bulk of Mr. Steinberg’s article is a justification for anti-Muslim bigotry, I must give him credit for holding a mirror up to me on my more extreme days and helping me understand why I frustrate the crap out of my conservative readers.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

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158 Comments Add your own

  • 1. The Red Pill  |  June 30, 2009 at 5:17 pm

    I think you read into that article what you wanted it to say, and not what it actually said.

    You claim this:

    I had to chuckle at how Mr. Steinberg had so accurately nailed one aspect of the modern American liberal.

    But the article clearly says this:

    I am of course referring to classical liberalism, now tragically mistitled conservatism.

    According to the author, it’s conservatives who actually “withhold judgement until finding an answer bulletproofed by logic and reason.” Not contemporary liberals.

    And you, my good friend, are anything but conservative.

  • 2. dead rabbit 2.0  |  June 30, 2009 at 5:34 pm

    Rutherford read it correctly. The dude says that the foundation of classical liberalism was withholding judgment until your answer is “bulletproofed by logic”.

    The liberal, immersed in a college camps stew of post-modernist nihilism, just plain old refuses to pass judgment.
    The article is about cultural relativism.

    Rutherford refuses to pass judgment on the Islamic world in the year 2009.

  • 3. dead rabbit 2.0  |  June 30, 2009 at 5:36 pm

    college campus

  • 4. The Red Pill  |  June 30, 2009 at 6:42 pm

    Right. The foundation of classical liberalism. Which he then says has been mistakenly labelled as conservativism.

    He goes on to say that the Left stops at “withholding judgement,” which, to me, implies that he thinks Conservatives take it the step further, basing judgement on reason and logic.

    So, is he not saying that the label of “Conservative” is actually the ideal of classical liberalism?

  • 5. The Red Pill  |  June 30, 2009 at 6:50 pm

    DR, I think I see what you are saying. And the author of that piece may be saying it, too. But if that is the case, the first portion Rutherford quoted doesn’t convey that. (assuming Rutherford quoted it in full context)

  • 6. The Red Pill  |  June 30, 2009 at 6:59 pm

    “What conservatives, and Mr. Steinberg, fail to see is how the other extreme is just as dangerous if not more so. When you begin from the premise that you are unquestionably “right” and therefore the fault must lie with the “other”, there is no room for discussion, for compromise, for empathy or for anything remotely resembling “relationship”. ”

    Rutherford, what do you think the Democratic Party has done from the moment Barack Hussein Obama was sworn into office?

    Have they entertained any Republican ideas, or do they just discount them as the same worn out ideas that have proven to fail?

    And don’t you say the same thing? I’ll bet it wouldn’t take me very long to research your archives to find you droning on about the GOP offering nothing but more of the same ol’ same ol’.

    Have we seen any compromise by the Democratic Party lately?

    Do you call “I won” showing empathy or forging a relationship?

    If you want to call a spade a spade (can we still say that, or is it racist?), then you should say “What the ideology in control, and Mr. Steinberg, fail to see is…” Otherwise you are doing anything but looking in the mirror before you pass judgement.

  • 7. Elric66  |  June 30, 2009 at 7:21 pm

    “So, is he not saying that the label of “Conservative” is actually the ideal of classical liberalism?”

    Yes he is. “Liberals” today are guided by anything but logic and reason.

  • 8. Elric66  |  June 30, 2009 at 7:24 pm

    “Rutherford refuses to pass judgment on the Islamic world in the year 2009.”

    Thats because he is a multiculturalist that views all cultures as equal.

  • 9. Elric66  |  June 30, 2009 at 7:29 pm

    DR,

    Isnt it odd DR? Thuggy wont stand up agaisnt an Iranian regime that executes peaceful protesters because he doesnt want to be seen as “meddlesome”. But when the Honduras President gets ousted, thuggy jumps right in to defend Chavez’s buddy.

    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/06/30/gibbs-obama-spoke-up-about-honduras-so-that-people-wouldnt-think-we-were-behind-the-coup/

    So was that post I linked to about thuggy embracing the worst human rights violators one of my links you didnt think worthwhile to read?

  • 10. Alfie  |  June 30, 2009 at 7:54 pm

    R a big chunk of your post fits well in dressing down the stereotypical elitist liberal butt head more than bashing the Right.
    This thread will be perfection if absolutely ZERO liberals comment in it.
    And on the side. Liberals frustrate conservatives due to insane anti_American anti liberty rants and acts. nothing to do with feeling bested by the cast of Doonesbury.

  • 11. Elric66  |  June 30, 2009 at 8:19 pm

    Cant argue with Alfie at all on that point.

  • 12. dead rabbit 2.0  |  June 30, 2009 at 8:19 pm

    Elriic, I think most of your links are worthy to read. However, the law of diminishing return kicks in after a while. You end up diluting some of your message. I guess my thinking is it would serve you much better to stick to one or two links and then press the issue with Rutherford. This will give Rutherford no wiggle room.

    I agree. Rutherford is a “dodger”. It’s getting to be like AOL News around here. Rutherford gives a bland summery or an announcement on what Obama said, makes fun of the conservatives and then on to the next topic. All this during the most revolutionary first 100 days of the presidency since FDR. There just isn’t any critical analysis on his part that is relevant. Chen was much the same. In fact, I’m seeing this everywhere in this country.

    Think about it. Rutherford opened yesterday’s blog about Cap and Trade without remotely caring about what the bill is about.

    Now, I do have an excuse for R. R doesn’t know two shits about the bill because our leaders want it this way. They are making it very tough to be remotely informed. That, in itself, should piss R off and be fodder for his very vanilla blogging.

    The small “border dispute” between the Rabbit and Elric is mostly one of house keeping and not ideology.

    I also think it would be more effective if you skipped the one line quip, and lambasted R’s ass with a true thesis of your own. Maybe once or twice a week. Otherwise, you’re just a megaphone for someone else. Writing shit yourself forces you to think things through, to become sharper.

    By the way, I’m well aware of my own hypocrisy with my finger wagging.
    ________________________________________________
    I can’t believe Obama is falling for the old trick of the classic “plebiscite”. Man, Obama would fit right in during Napoleonic France. He will end up pissing off a ton of Hondurans AND weakening our national security.

  • 13. dead rabbit 2.0  |  June 30, 2009 at 8:33 pm

    Red Pill,

    You are correct. After reading what Rutherford wrote and skimming the article again, he did misunderstand the author.

    Rutherford claims the guy was saying that the difference between liberals and conservatives is the liberal obsession of practicing “inward criticism”.

    Instead, the author is claiming that liberals ultimately don’t have the balls to criticize anything, due to relativism. .

    That is not what the dude meant, and, R screwed his essay all up because of that.

  • 14. The Red Pill  |  June 30, 2009 at 8:35 pm

    I would love for Elric to start a blog and write something of his own that includes material and supporting links from wherever. I know that I personally would be a lot more engaging to 1 coherent post that presents an idea and has 50 supporting links than 50 posts with 1 link and little explanation.

    I wouldn’t likely agree with any of it, but I would read it. ;)

  • 15. Elric66  |  June 30, 2009 at 8:54 pm

    Im working on you Red Pill, you have potential. :-)

  • 16. Elric66  |  June 30, 2009 at 9:00 pm

    “I guess my thinking is it would serve you much better to stick to one or two links and then press the issue with Rutherford.”

    I tried that. Dodger is dodger and would dodge anything that dealt with the thug in chief whether I posted one article a day or 10.

  • 17. dead rabbit 2.0  |  June 30, 2009 at 9:00 pm

    Im working on you, Elric, you have potential. :)

  • 18. dead rabbit 2.0  |  June 30, 2009 at 9:03 pm

    Rutherford is intellectually a dodger. However, I think he does a good job responding to the stuff we write on here. Hell, I can throw a tantrum telling the guy I want to rip him in half and he responds to me.

  • 19. Elric66  |  June 30, 2009 at 9:10 pm

    “Im working on you, Elric, you have potential. :)”

    Oh I am very gifted. Like when I said when thuggy backed the mullahs it wouldnt matter and it didnt. At least thuggy meddled in Honduras.

  • 20. Elric66  |  June 30, 2009 at 9:11 pm

    Ill give Dodger some credit. He is a hell of a lot more tolerant of other views than Wickle. More so than a lot of leftist blogs in general.

  • 21. dead rabbit 2.0  |  June 30, 2009 at 9:14 pm

    Obama never backed the mullahs. That’s just not accurate.

  • 22. Elric66  |  June 30, 2009 at 9:28 pm

    Yes it is. Not in an overt way but he did. And given he speed he backed Chavez’s puppet, Obama’s handling of Iran is even more disgraceful.

  • 23. dead rabbit 2.0  |  June 30, 2009 at 10:12 pm

    Elrick,

    You seem like you might be a young feller…..and we seem to be on the same schedule as of late (ie we aint doin’ shit all day). Ever thought of doing a 4 year stint in the service? You could go fight the Taliban!

  • 24. Elric66  |  June 30, 2009 at 10:13 pm

    Did my 20 allready

  • 25. Tex Taylor  |  June 30, 2009 at 11:05 pm

    My point of view has always been to look to oneself for fault before blaming others.

    That’s parody right? You woke up every morning for eight years in some new flog blaming Bush for evil in the world. Where was the self-reflection during 2000-2008?

    I see it in the comments section of this blog all the time. Readers who give me credit for having at least half a brain, cannot fathom how I come to the conclusions that I do.

    WTH??? Since I have been one to compliment you on your apparent intellect, let me give you a more specific head’s up. What I can’t figure out is how you can have a brain and still come to the ignorant decisions you do. That’s a more egregious sin than simply being dumb.

    for compromise, for empathy or for anything remotely resembling “relationship”.

    Yeah, I’ll try to remember that next time you post one of those Sarah Palin rants.

    I must give him credit for holding a mirror up to me on my more extreme days and helping me understand why I frustrate the crap out of my conservative readers.

    Illusions of grandeur…That was literally retching. You know “R”, sometimes there is a very fine line between being grudgingly respected and laughed at. That one crossed the line.

  • 26. Rutherford  |  June 30, 2009 at 11:59 pm

    You are correct. After reading what Rutherford wrote and skimming the article again, he did misunderstand the author.

    No, Rabbit, you were right and then with this last comment you were wrong.

    The author very clearly states that the contemporary liberal (not to be mistaken with the classical liberal, which is really a conservative) will not judge others until he has exhausted finding fault with himself. The author contends that this approach results in the liberal NEVER applying critical thought to others as self-perfection is unattainable and hence the self-reflection goes on ad-infinitum.

  • 27. Rutherford  |  July 1, 2009 at 12:03 am

    According to the author, it’s conservatives who actually “withhold judgement until finding an answer bulletproofed by logic and reason.” Not contemporary liberals.

    Red Pill you are right but you’ve missed the point. He goes on to say that contemporary liberals never get past “withhold judgment”. In other words, they don’t pursue an answer bulletproofed by logic and reason because they are too deep in self-examination to even get that far.

    Dead Rabbit expressed it exactly right in comment #2 before he retracted it in a later comment.

  • 28. Rutherford  |  July 1, 2009 at 12:06 am

    Right. The foundation of classical liberalism. Which he then says has been mistakenly labelled as conservativism.

    Red Pill, I think you have it backward. He says that classical liberalism is conservatism but that the phrase “liberal” was co-opted by the left … bastardized so to speak, to fit the definition of the contemporary liberal.

  • 29. Elric66  |  July 1, 2009 at 12:14 am

    “Red Pill, I think you have it backward. He says that classical liberalism is conservatism but that the phrase “liberal” was co-opted by the left … bastardized so to speak, to fit the definition of the contemporary liberal.”

    He is right. Conservatism rose from classical liberalism and modern liberalism rose from “progressivism”.The mother of fascism and socialism.

  • 30. Rutherford  |  July 1, 2009 at 12:17 am

    Red Pill regarding comment 6, as I recall Obama invited house republicans for a sit-down early in his term and Boehner rejected Obama’s programs (I think it was the stimulus at the time) BEFORE the sit-down even occurred. In other words, the Republicans were pre-disposed not to play ball before they even sat down with Obama.

    I will grant you this. When Obama etal, answer challenges to their ideas with “we won in November”, that’s grade school and should be beneath Obama’s dignity. Both sides have been petty at times. But then, that is politics as usual.

    I will even grant Tex this … the one area in which Obama has been an abject failure is in successfully raising the level of discourse in Washington. It’s still politics and it’s still high school in many cases.

  • 31. Rutherford  |  July 1, 2009 at 12:23 am

    OK Rabbit, the dummies guide to cap and trade … and I am referring to myself as dummy here, not you.

    After some very basic tutoring from sig other (who convinced me that I was actually not totally in the dark on the subject), my understanding is we set a level of carbon emissions and then we incent businesses to meet that level or pay a tax penalty if they don’t. Or to put it differently, we reward businesses who comply with the emission standards, with a tax credit.

    Now, I’m sorry but on the face of it, seems like a pretty damn good idea to me. First one has to acknowledge that we are hurting our environment with current practices. If we cannot agree on that, then it is all much ado about nothing.

  • 32. Elric66  |  July 1, 2009 at 12:27 am

    “Red Pill regarding comment 6, as I recall Obama invited house republicans for a sit-down early in his term and Boehner rejected Obama’s programs (I think it was the stimulus at the time) BEFORE the sit-down even occurred. In other words, the Republicans were pre-disposed not to play ball before they even sat down with Obama.”

    Id reject them too. Look how the pork bill turned out. No one even read it. What kind of moron votes or signs something they havent read? Same thing with this cap and trade. But hey, Pelosi had to get it passed, its all about her. And we still got national healthcare and illegal immigration down the road and God knows what else. The only thing thuggy was truthful on was change. We got change and more change to come. By the time he is done, our country will be so changed, we wont be able to tell it from Zimbabwe.

  • 33. Elric66  |  July 1, 2009 at 12:31 am

    Just answer one question Dodger. Is CO2 a pollutant?

    Oh and thuggy in his own words that energy costs will skyrocket. That a great idea?

    http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/06/obama-warned-us-cap-trade-will-cause.html

    Its about 1 minute into the video.

  • 34. Rutherford  |  July 1, 2009 at 12:35 am

    Illusions of grandeur…That was literally retching. You know “R”, sometimes there is a very fine line between being grudgingly respected and laughed at. That one crossed the line.

    Oh, now Tex, that cuts to the quick! It’s not so much delusions of grandeur as it is reading Steinberg’s piece and trying to think like a conservative for a minute and while thinking in that mode, finding myself frustrated with myself!

    You would have found my mother a most interesting person. She saw no grey. Things were either right or wrong. She felt that people could do the most heinous of things by over-intellectualizing about them. She tended not to express her more conservative views in public because she felt those views, in the wrong hands, gave license to abuse people who felt differently. But in private, she was pretty damn conservative. When I read Steinberg’s piece, I could see my mother saying to me “stop gazing at your navel and take a stand!”

    So no, it wasn’t delusions of grandeur … it was just seeing a well articulated criticism of liberal thought that reminded me of me.

  • 35. Rutherford  |  July 1, 2009 at 12:50 am

    The mother of fascism and socialism.

    LOL just HAD to toss that hand grenade in there didn’t you? ;-)

    Just answer one question Dodger. Is CO2 a pollutant?

    This is a sophomoric stance taken by folks who are in denial about global warming. No one in their right mind is saying that when we exhale, we are polluting. It is not rocket science to understand that our ecology is a balancing act. What we exhale, plants “inhale” and a balance occurs. When we build a bunch of factories and other man-made phenomena all of which are “exhaling” more CO2 than can be inhaled by plants or absorbed by the sea, an imbalance occurs and we have a problem.

    The newscaster in the video you posted stated the matter quite succinctly. Is solving the problem worth the cost? You say no. Lots of scientists say yes.

  • 36. Rutherford  |  July 1, 2009 at 12:55 am

    Elric, just to make sure I’m following you, was the reference to Zimbabwe about inflation?

    I’ve noticed a few of you fume about bills getting passed that no one has read. Hey gang …. politics as usual! You think this is any different from the Bush admin? The only difference is under Bush you got policies in place that you liked that no one read. It’s the policies that have changed, not the method of implementing them.

  • 37. Rutherford  |  July 1, 2009 at 12:58 am

    Alfie, if history is any judge, I can assure you no liberals will comment in this thread. I have stopped waiting for reinforcements. :-/

  • 38. Elric66  |  July 1, 2009 at 1:05 am

    “When we build a bunch of factories and other man-made phenomena all of which are “exhaling” more CO2 than can be inhaled by plants or absorbed by the sea, an imbalance occurs and we have a problem.”

    Then lets regulate volcanoes since they produce an astronomical amount of CO2 compared to man made CO2.

    “This is a sophomoric stance taken by folks who are in denial about global warming.”

    Thats right I deny global warming. Its a falsehood to dupe people so they feel good as the government rapes them of all their hard earned money. In fact the earth has been cooling since 2002 but dont let that fact stop you. Some of the global warming cult understand that. Thats why they are going towards “climate change”. That way, they can justify any weather pattern in order to tax you.

    Ohh and another point. The biggest contributer to global warming is water vapor. But thuggy hasnt figured out to regulate that.

    And you do know China and India wont commit economical suicide by playing along so whats the upside to all this insanity?

  • 39. Elric66  |  July 1, 2009 at 1:06 am

    And interesting you didnt comment on thuggy saying his plan will cause energy prices to skyrocket? Why is that Dodger? Thuggy’s words not good enough for you?

  • 40. Elric66  |  July 1, 2009 at 1:10 am

    “I’ve noticed a few of you fume about bills getting passed that no one has read. Hey gang …. politics as usual! You think this is any different from the Bush admin? The only difference is under Bush you got policies in place that you liked that no one read. It’s the policies that have changed, not the method of implementing them.”

    Thats BS because I didnt agree with the first TARP and stimulus plan. Nice try. Im not a drone like you. Nice try though. Interesting though that you are comparing Bush politics to Obama’s. I thought thuggy was all about a CHANGE in Washington.

  • 41. Elric66  |  July 1, 2009 at 1:19 am

    I do feel sorry for you so Im going to help you out.

    Read “Liberty and Tyranny” by Marc Levin. It will really lay it out what it means to be a conservative and what it means to be a statist. The book is 13 bucks on Amazon. It would be the best 13 bucks you ever spent. You seem open minded enough to read it. Check it out at the library if you dont want to buy it. I serious about it. The book has been on the NY Times best seller at number one for 3 months. Its not some obscure book. Read it and learn. You will either come away knowing you been duped or you will say yeah thats me a statist. But you will not come out indifferent, thats for sure.

  • 42. Elric66  |  July 1, 2009 at 1:21 am

    Olberman calls Limbaugh “big bag full of mashed up jackass”. Priceless!

    But yet Rush has 10 times the audience. So what does that make Olberman?

  • 43. Elric66  |  July 1, 2009 at 1:27 am

    Obama’s True Colors Shine in Honduras

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/07/obamas_true_colors_shine_in_ho.html

    If what the article says isnt true. Feel free to rebut it Dodger :-)

  • 44. dead rabbit 2.0  |  July 1, 2009 at 8:06 am

    Rutherford,

    My apologies. I read the second page. I will change your grade back to an “A” as you did comprehend the article correctly. Red Pill has a strange influence over the Rabbit.

    If Red Pill told me to poke out my eyes and move to Portland, the Rabbit would.

    As for cap and trade, I’m kind of even more shocked now. I didn’t mean you were ignorant to the basic definition of “cap and trade”.

    And although we could argue about it, I was wondering if you knew what else was in this biill? What are the bill writers’ own predictions? How much will this truly cost? Who will it effect the most? etc. etc.

    I’m not pretending I know all the answers. I’m just sick of historic spending bills being rushed through. I argue you should be too. You’re correct, this shit started with the hyper-rushed Tarp under Bush.

    However, Obama literally based his entire campaign on transparency. Have you done a lobbyist count lately? Or are secret waivers really the transparency you were looking for.

    How can you not feel betrayed?

  • 45. dead rabbit 2.0  |  July 1, 2009 at 8:06 am

    lol…..Elric….20 years, my ass! I call bull shit!

  • 46. solar1  |  July 1, 2009 at 8:53 am

    R,
    Their are still many people who don’t believe in Global Warming, including many scientists. Go to http://www.globalwarming.org

  • 47. Elric66  |  July 1, 2009 at 8:58 am

    DR,

    Believe what you want. I did 20 in the USAF.

  • 48. Elric66  |  July 1, 2009 at 8:59 am

    “You’re correct, this shit started with the hyper-rushed Tarp under Bush.’

    Which was under a demomarxist lead Congress

  • 49. dead rabbit 2.0  |  July 1, 2009 at 9:15 am

    …I believe you…

  • 50. dead rabbit 2.0  |  July 1, 2009 at 9:17 am

    Yeah…but I blame Bush the most. He gave cover to the Congress when he gave us that trumped up “if we don’t do this in the nest 48 hours” speech. Total bullshit.

  • 51. dead rabbit 2.0  |  July 1, 2009 at 9:19 am

    next

  • 52. Elric66  |  July 1, 2009 at 9:22 am

    I dont excuse Bush for TARP. One of the things that truly disappointed me in his 2nd term.

  • 53. Elric66  |  July 1, 2009 at 9:24 am

    Next? How about more Gov Palin bashing

    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/07/01/video-more-palin-bashing-from-the-media/

  • 54. Elric66  |  July 1, 2009 at 9:39 am

    “We don’t want churches on our street,”read a flier dropped at the door of Charles Odilo, who had donated the plot on which the Evangelical Assemblies of God in Tanzania (EAGT) building stood. “Today we are going to burn the church, and if you continue we are going to burn your house also.”

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/07/tanzania-two-churches-razed-to-the-ground-by-radical-muslims-.html

    Ahhhh…the tolerance of isam

  • 55. Rutherford  |  July 1, 2009 at 9:57 am

    Ahhhh…the tolerance of islam

    You see, Elric, this is exactly where you miss the mark. If you had said “Ahhh … the tolerance of radical Islam”, you would have me agreeing with you whole-heartedly. The problem is that you broad-brush the entire religion based on the actions of its own most fanatical members. How can you not see how unfair that is?

  • 56. Elric66  |  July 1, 2009 at 10:00 am

    “The problem is that you broad-brush the entire religion based on the actions of its own most fanatical members.”

    Would that include their prophet Dodger?

  • 57. Tex Taylor  |  July 1, 2009 at 10:41 am

    “R”,

    Back to the Cap & Trade issue for a moment. How in the world (no pun intended) could you think that positive for the economy? Let’s review:

    (1) It’s a tax increase – a huge one further stifling growth.
    (2) Our economy in the dink and getting worse. Reported unemployment will soon reach 10% – and here’s betting the real unemployment closer to 15%. This will do nothing to alleviate that and probably add to the unemployment. We are already seeing signs of hyperinflation.
    (3) The value of most people’s assets, including their homes, is now about 70% of what it was 18 months ago.
    (4) The tax based on the flimsiest of science – the jackbooted thugs running the EPA won’t even let their own scientists release results showing CO2 emissions actually have the opposite effect of what Al Gore claims.
    (5) China and India, between the two are 800% larger than the United States and if they haven’t already done so, will soon pass us in consumption and CO2 emissions. They aren’t going to care about pollution, just that they have air conditioning for the first time in their lives. Our cap will prove futile, as we still receive millions of tons of Chinese pollution every year.
    (6) Every other industrialized country in the world is in the process of lowering taxes, while Honest Obe and Pharaoh Rahm are attempting to raise ours. This includes Germany, England and Australia. I thought the E.U. always knew best?
    (7) Here’s a correlation, a cause and effect if you will, that liberals apparently do not understand. You raise the costs of business, businesses first line of defense is to lower their own costs. And the fastest and most efficient way to do is the elimination of jobs.
    (8) Government by definition does not generate growth. What it gives to one, it must take from another.
    (9) You’re not rewarding businesses who comply with the emission standards with a tax credit. You’re asking Wall Street to buy and sell emission permissions – the same incompetents that helped get us into the financial mess.
    (10) You’re guaranteeing that people’s energy costs are going to go up – possibly severely. As this happens, the people most penalized are the poor and lower middle class. I thought you were so concerned for the little guy?
    (11) This will be a bureaucrats dream and an administrative nightmare. Past regulations like Sarbane-Oxley have penalized businesses with further costs and have done little or nothing to facilitate their original intent of honesty and openness.
    (12) The idea has already been rejected once by the American public as this nothing but window dressing on Clinton’s BTU tax of 1993.

    There are but a dozen reasons this is a stupid idea. I could give twenty more.

    What is it that you don’t understand about a deep recession? Of all of Obama’s moronic ideas so far, and they are legend, this one the most moronic.

  • 58. Elric66  |  July 1, 2009 at 10:43 am

    Good luck with an answer. I even gave him a link where in thuggy’s own voice said that cap and trade would cause energy prices to skyrocket. Dodger being dodger well dodged it.

  • 59. Marc  |  July 1, 2009 at 11:08 am

    Hmmmm, Well, as usual I hop in on a Rutherford post 50 posts after the righty crew of Pill, tex, Dead Rabbit, Elric and Alfie have already well dissected the topic, and me, being a person of limited time hasn’t actually read all the comments, risking raking us all over the coals of an already discussed topic.

    However, to take us back to Rutherford’s original post, I have a comment.

    The whole premise of the article is f-ing ridiculous, because nothing in Steinberg’s article actually describes an ideology, merely a process of thought. He describes a left/right dynamic consisting of conservatives who base judgement on logic and reason and liberals who base judgement on self-analysis and moral relativism. While it’d be really great if all the conservative and liberal world fell in these neat lines, they don’t. As Rutherford said, he’d rather be a self-analyzing, self-loathing liberal than assume he’s right and blindly march forward lacking any questioning of their presumptions. Which is rutherford, but it’s hardly contemporary liberalism.

    The reality is that come every election time, there are millions of liberals and conservatives who wake up and rubber stamp their party’s electoral line-up without a turd’s worth of self-analysis, or logic and reason. And it’s not just the electorate – you can’t tell me that though thorough conservatives, Mark Sanford and Vitter aren’t moral relativists who haven’t done a few things not based on logic. You also can’t tell me that while we more or less may be at war with Islam, that after 8 years of so called logic and reasonable governance, we’ve made any progress.

    Hell, even I’ll admit I’m not always the greatest at self-analysis. In the battle between lets say, the environment, poor and civil liberties versus corporate interests I admit that i trend towards hanging with the little guy without giving much thought to the matter, then need to back my way into the logic and reason, sorting out which of my notions are wrong and right. I quite honestly think that everybody here does the same thing, regardless of whether or not they are liberal or conservative.

    And for my lack of self-analysis and moral relativism, I think everyone here agrees I’m a liberal. For let’s say, Elric’s inane and unswerving dedication to his ideas, with roughly a sentences worth of logical deduction to back him up, I’m sure we’d all agree he’s conservative.

    So, sorry Rutherford, the article’s bullshit. The process for determining contemporary liberalism and conservatism has as much to do with how we arrive to our conclusions as a pile of cow shit has to the height of the Sears Tower. In modern terms, its our conclusions that come to define us, not how we’ve arrived at them.

  • 60. Marc  |  July 1, 2009 at 11:14 am

    Rabit, love to talk cap and trade with you sometime.

    Tex,
    3 is irrelevant
    4 is either dishonest or you’re misinformed
    5 is wrong
    6 is just plain dumb (the EU has a cap and trade)
    8 isn’t supported by economics or reality
    9 and 10, you obviously haven’t read the bill
    and 12 I quite frankly don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.

  • 61. Alfie  |  July 1, 2009 at 11:29 am

    Marc:
    #1 I don’t know if you offer it as such but the 4 of us you mentioned, RP,DR,Tex,Elric and myself are not uniform in our views so your argument is right on that side of the scale.
    #2 You’re a liberal ???
    #3 How is 5 wrong? China has surpassed us in weight but gets a dodge in some circles due to per person.

  • 62. Marc  |  July 1, 2009 at 11:37 am

    None the part I was saying is wrong, what’s wrong is the categorization that says they don’t care about air pollution. Despite their allergy to any kind of international binding agreements (which is true of China in damn near everything) they’ve put more into green energy investment, raising car mpg requirements and lowering emissions, than we have, or any other industrialized country. It’s not that they don’t care about climate change, it’s just that China being China, they don’t care about working with the rest of the world on it.

  • 63. Alfie  |  July 1, 2009 at 12:00 pm

    Marc. I get it now. I had a report from some group that looked seriously at the US and China pairing up to essentially take over the world on climate. It was thought that US tech and $ plus China manufacturing and $ plus the geography and political clout could create a very different and very large super superpower.

  • 64. Tex Taylor  |  July 1, 2009 at 12:06 pm

    Marc,

    I’ve always thought you clueless tree hugger. But until now, never thought you dumb. Your clueless nature and inability to reason one reason I found you a bore and quit going to your worthless blog. You don’t listen, aren’t near as smart as you would like to think, and are a general asshole. Now, on to your challenge.

    If you think that one’s self-worth seven cents on the dime in less than 18 months irrelevant when being asked to help finance something, your even more of a loon than I first thought.

    Second, global warming is a joke. And you, being “and environmentalist” have a big stake in this. It’s your paycheck.

    Third, you’re a bald-faced liar about statement #4. But I expect nothing less from a Gaia worshiping dolt.

    Finally, this statement shows how clueless you are:

    8 isn’t supported by economics or reality

    Then perhaps you can show us where government generates wealth? Complete fuzzy-headed lib logic.

    And if you don’t think this isn’t going to raise the cost of energy, you’re not dumb – you’re stupid.

  • 65. Tex Taylor  |  July 1, 2009 at 12:21 pm

    Elric & Rabbit,

    I’ll give you a head’s up on Marc. This is the new definition of “greenie”, probably one step from the Earth Liberation Front – the biggest domestic terrorist on our land mass. Out with the liberal art’s degree – on to manning the commune. A throw back to failed policies of the sixties, completely with the circuitous logic built in. A man of the earth that would rather folks starve than to use the top soil God granted. And know, I’m not kidding.

    Pop on over to Marc’s little world, and read up about his causes. To think he’s remotely interested in hearing the truth about this subject is a mirage x 2. This is his pet cause and his livelihood. Anything he says on this subject is not to be trusted.

    I reread through his criticisms, and would be willing to bet him some serious dollars on this board if he’s game. I’ll even let the room decide who is right and who is wrong.

  • 66. Elric66  |  July 1, 2009 at 12:27 pm

    Oh I had him pegged quite awhile back Tex. The one silver lining is that if the demomarxists do get their agendas passed, he will be as miserable as anyone else.

  • 67. Marc  |  July 1, 2009 at 12:31 pm

    Tex,
    I do think someone being worth 7 cents on the dime is relevant to life in general, what I fail to see is how that plays into cap and trade.

    4? Boohoo on the EPA for not publishing commentary in its name from an economist about climatology. And I’m catholic – not sure who you’re worshiping.

    8 – Geeze, i must be such an idiot to think the billions government spends on roads wouldn’t have trillion dollar effects if we didn’t, I know, stop having roads. Or that somehow the defense industries profits and total worth far surpass the defense budget. Or that governments initial investment in the internet hasn’t spurred trillions in wealth. Or that government GPS satellites haven’t more than paid for themselves. Gee, I must be such a dumbass.

    And i never said it wasn’t going to raise energy prices – what i was contesting was the fact that it was going to have a rougher impact on the lower classes, when the bill has the profits from the emissions trading schemes going to offset lower class energy bills.

    But you know, I’m a “treehugger, dumb, unable to reason, a loon, pagan, and a general asshole,” so feel free to ignore me.

    Nice having enlightened discussion with you Tex. You’ve really managed to educate me in civility.

  • 68. Tex Taylor  |  July 1, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    I do think someone being worth 7 cents on the dime is relevant to life in general, what I fail to see is how that plays into cap and trade.

    Do I really have to explain this? Cap & Trade is a massive tax, not to mention farce. If someone worth less, the more you take, the worse it hurts. In addition, the less you have, and still having to heat and cool your home and fill your tank, the bigger the burden. Good grief!

    The EPA is a farce. I could give you a horror story of personal nature about their goose steppers and their penalties. It’s a joke that should be rendered moot and discarded. Anyone want to rehash MTBE and 1.6 gallon toilets that don’t flush?

    I must be such an idiot to think the billions government spends on roads wouldn’t have trillion dollar effects if we didn’t, I know, stop having roads.

    Yes, your are an economic idiot. The only road funded by our federal government are interstates. Are we building new interstates that I’m not aware? If not, it is a sunk cost and simply repair. That’s not creating wealth Marc. Your claim would be like a refinery turnaround considered revenue production. Take a look at Exxon’s balance sheet and see where the journal entry lies. For every job created to build the bridge, 100,000 corporate and personal checks were just tagged to pay for it. That is shuffling money – not creating wealth.

    Or that somehow the defense industries profits and total worth far surpass the defense budget.

    Wrong. Those defense industries you speak? I used to work for one. The monies taxed to pay for our military equipment but a necessary evil. In comparison to return on worth, it’s a boondoggle and negative return on investment. Any broker knows that, as most defensive industries working on a cost plus basis. We use those to keep us protected, not to increase our worth. In a civilized world, they would be the worst of investments. Have we forgotten about the $1,000 dollar hammer?

    Or that governments initial investment in the internet hasn’t spurred trillions in wealth. Or that government GPS satellites haven’t more than paid for themselves.

    Can you show me this trillions in wealth being generated from government funding (which you and I pay for)? By the way, government doesn’t pay but for a fraction of the infrastructure. Business and industry do in cooperation with coordination thru the federal government.

    I suppose we can argue intellectual wealth maybe. But let’s say for the moment, I grant you the internet and satellites. You want to tell me government does it better at providing those services more efficiently and effectively than private industry can? The government is simply the hub “governing” the facilitation. There are things called opportunity costs, return on investment, bang for the buck. All your claim does is get us back to arguing who does it better? Free enterprise, or Uncle Sam? I think the verdict is in and abundantly clear.

    I’m not here to educate you in civility. Your mom and dad were responsible for that.

    And you didn’t take my bet. I thought you said the claims bogus? Should be easy money, should it not?

  • 69. Marc  |  July 1, 2009 at 1:39 pm

    Tex, your complaint about cap and trade and home prices then, is a complaint about taxes. If you want a taxes debate, sure, that’s for another time, but there’s no one to one relation between cap and trade, and the fact that you took out a mortgage on the overinflated value of house.

    Oh so, state and local government creates economic growth, but federal doesn’t? Kind of hedging your arguments there aren’t ya? I never said federal government, neither did you.And I’d add that by your logic, Somalia should be one of the greatest wealth producing countries in the world.

    “The EPA is a farce” is not an argument. Neither does it defend your prior statement number #4, dealing with an EPA economist having a hissyfit over the fact no one besides those with a partisan interest give a crap about his climatology research.

    I grant you the internet and satellites. You want to tell me government does it better at providing those services more efficiently and effectively than private industry can? The government is simply the hub “governing” the facilitation.

    Actually internet providers have been trying for some time to try to make internet users to pay according to usage, in otherwords a rate according to how much traffic, which would force people to ration their internet, and probably have a net negative effect on overall internet revenues. So no, the industry which does manage the internet would probably do a pretty horrendous job. As for GPS satellites, I don’t of an industry with the cash to put them up there, not the willingness since the U.S. military needs them up there anyways. Still, they’ve help to generate a lot of wealth. Finally, the point is that without the government “hub” you often have crap industry wise. Hence, Somalia. I don’t believe government always has a net positive revenue effect, however, I’m not so stupid as to think industry does well in its absence. The argument then isn’t, whether or not government creates wealth, it’s about what kind of government we need to ensure we can create wealth – some we do, some we don’t, but the conservative blabfest about that particular talking point is disingenuous as hell.

    As for your bet, not much in the way of specifics and kind of a texas hold’em needless bit of blustering no? I guess when you can’t back your arguments with facts, money’s just as good.

    and finally, I’m not sure you’d be capable of providing much education in civility. For what it’s worth though, I recieve no income from and have really no potential to produce income from cap and trade. My income is paid from interest off an endowment invested directly into the free market, so you know, my future’s just as tied into the success of the free market as the rest of y’all.

  • 70. Tex Taylor  |  July 1, 2009 at 2:34 pm

    Marc,

    First, my mortgage paid. You’ll need to find someone else to blame as you live out your days in an apartment. In addition, home prices in my neighbor never escalated to any degree, therefore I haven’t really gained or lost much of anything pertaining to housing. Now with that out of the way.

    Tex, your complaint about cap and trade and home prices then, is a complaint about taxes.

    Of course it is a complain about taxes. I never said it wasn’t. It’s also a complaint about bad science and bad government policy, leading to further deterioration of our capital system for no good reason, therefore further damaging the country. The only benefactors of this are people like you and Al Gore. Period.

    This report you dismiss but one of hundreds discounting
    “global change” – and then I only brought it up as one of the EPAs own said as much, before the jackboots tried to silence him. If his data wrong, prove it. It was laid out very clearly for me. However, I already knew this from organic chemistry and the research papers required years ago about CO2 emissions during schooling. Man couldn’t control the climate, couldn’t derail the ocean currents, couldn’t control the weather, any more than he could control whether the sun rises and sets. This is arrogance of pseudo-science at its dead level worst.

    What’s funny is even your respective loons in the EU (Britain for instance) are starting to discount your science. The wackos there haven’t convinced the populace either, as global warming becomes more the running joke each day for all but those that continue to howl at the moon. 1.6 gallon toilets are an argument Marc. So is MTBE, exorbitant refinery fines for the most meager of infractions concerning spillage, and a million other worthless boondoggles foisted on a gullible public, believing government administration competent.

    Oh so, state and local government creates economic growth, but federal doesn’t? Kind of hedging your arguments there aren’t ya? I never said federal government, neither did you.And I’d add that by your logic, Somalia should be one of the greatest wealth producing countries in the world.

    Well, I supposed the easiest counter point for me is to take is to turn your argument upside down. Believing the way you apparently believe, the USSR should have left us in the dust by now.

    No, I don’t think state or local governments create wealth either – no hedging at all. Even when they build a road for benefit affording the opportunity including business, the taxpayers pay for it. Of course, the taxpayers also vote on it if they believe it of benefit. Would you be willing to have a national referendum concerning your cap & trade vote?

    As for your bet, not much in the way of specifics and kind of a texas hold’em needless bit of blustering no? I guess when you can’t back your arguments with facts, money’s just as good.

    Liberal cowardice in action, ey Marc? Didn’t think you’d have the stones to have a real debate with real facts with more to lose than your pride. You’ve learned well from Master Gore, baffling them with bullshit the trademark of your own blog. :roll:

  • 71. The Red Pill  |  July 1, 2009 at 3:06 pm

    Rutherford: “The author contends that this approach results in the liberal NEVER applying critical thought to others as self-perfection is unattainable and hence the self-reflection goes on ad-infinitum.”

    You’ve really picked a terrible article to work your essay from. He does contend that in the second part of what you quoted, and contends the exact opposite in the first part. And that was really the part I was working from.

    This is what he said first, “The half-philosophy known as the Left co-opted that most precious word, liberty, then stopped reading at “withholds judgment.””

    He says classical liberalists withhold judgement until they reflect inward, but the Left stops at withholding judgement. That means they never get to the inward reflection part of it.

    Then he turns around and says the Left enters a never-ending cycle of reflection because there is never a perfect answer. The author contradicts himself.

    So I think we each have to concede that we are both right, and both wrong.

    And that that article really sucks.

    “I’ve noticed a few of you fume about bills getting passed that no one has read. Hey gang …. politics as usual! You think this is any different from the Bush admin? The only difference is under Bush you got policies in place that you liked that no one read. It’s the policies that have changed, not the method of implementing them

    I call bullshit.

    Two years ago, we set out on a journey to change the way that Washington works.
    ….
    I didn’t come here to do the same thing we’ve been doing or to take small steps forward, I came to provide the sweeping change that this country demanded when it went to the polls in November.

    And more bullshit.

    One of President Obama’s most prominent campaign promises was to change the way Washington worked.
    ….
    A new era of responsibility. More transparency. No more partisan posturing or political gimmicks….

    And I have always found Marc to be an intelligent, honorable, and worthy opponent to debate. If one goes against him armed only with insults, that person will come up short every time.

  • 72. The Red Pill  |  July 1, 2009 at 3:09 pm

    Hmm. I seem to have missed a quote tag. That last paragraph isn’t a quote.

  • 73. Tex Taylor  |  July 1, 2009 at 3:10 pm

    I don’t want “R” to have a myocardial infarction when he reads this, so I need to prepare him for this.

    A first. I’m going to come back and apologize to Marc.

    I shouldn’t have ripped you a new one, but I didn’t like your tone in that first message sent my way. I ask that you’ll forgive me for acting the bastard. I don’t like your politics, but it doesn’t excuse being a bully. I’ll start over…as I should have done with the Pill.

    ———————————–

    “R”,

    I’ve been giving some thought to your questioning why more libs don’t come to your defense. If you want my opinion for what it is worth, it is this.

    Every lib I know is smitten with the internet, and because of that appears to have their own developed their own small blog. Now I’m biased, because indirectly I consider you a friend of sorts, so this isn’t my suggestion for you but…

    Perhaps there’s so many of these types of blogs with a leftist bent, that the masses too scattered to be effective.

  • 74. Tex Taylor  |  July 1, 2009 at 3:12 pm

    Try that again…

    Every lib I know is smitten with the internet, and because of that appears to have their own developed their own small blog.

    P.S. – that last post was written before reading the Pill’s. It in no way drove me to make the apology.

  • 75. Tex Taylor  |  July 1, 2009 at 3:14 pm

    P.S. to the Pill who normally ignore.

    And I have always found Marc to be an intelligent, honorable, and worthy opponent to debate. If one goes against him armed only with insults, that person will come up short every time.

    Me too. However, friendships notwithstanding, I came armed with more than insults before the procession.

  • 76. The Red Pill  |  July 1, 2009 at 3:15 pm

    Tex: “I don’t want “R” to have a myocardial infarction….”

    I had one of those. To say it isn’t fun would be an understatement.

    Check your cholesterol regularly, folks. That means you too, Marc. Cholesterol is the silent killer, and you’re never too young to start managing it. I was 34 when I almost dropped dead in my living room.

    I say that with the deepest sincerity, guys.

  • 77. The Red Pill  |  July 1, 2009 at 3:17 pm

    “Me too. However, friendships notwithstanding, I came armed with more than insults before the procession.”

    As soon as I hit “Submit” I wanted to take that part of the comment back. I wasn’t directing it at you, Tex. Actually, I have debated Marc on MANY occasions, and had my own past experiences in mind.

  • 78. Tex Taylor  |  July 1, 2009 at 3:31 pm

    I’ll give each of you young men my sermon today. Here is your medical lesson in a nutshell as cardiology one of my interests:

    Your total cholesterol level, while important, is somewhat overrated as a factor in determining prevalence of heart disease. The measurement you need to refer to is the ratio of HDL/LDL. Cholesterol is a incredibly important component of body chemistry. It is used in cell membranes, and as a precursor to many of the sex hormones. Without it, you wouldn’t be alive.

    Unless you suffer from familial hypercholesterolaemia, after doing some research I would rate the following factors most important in preventing atherosclerosis for young men, the most common cause of most heart attacks.

    (1) Family history
    (2) Sedentary lifestyle accompanied by obesity
    (3) Smoking
    (4) High LDL

    Women generally have higher levels of HDL (high density lipoproteins and considered the good cholesterol) than men. Many researchers believe this is a reason women on average live six years longer than men. Exercise will raise your HDL to a moderate degree, but your total cholesterol levels about 80% genetic. Diet can only do so much. HDL is an equally important factor when tested and should be considered when measuring.

    One test that many times goes unnoticed but I believe equally as important, would be your triglyceride levels. Make sure you take these into consideration when analyzing your blood work. LDL and high triglycerides generally run hand-in-hand.

    Just a head’s up, as I suffer from ventricular tachycardia, and like Pill, will probably die from the heart (no pun intended) one day – mine being congenital. Didn’t discover it until 25, and damn lucky I didn’t drop dead on the athletic field.

  • 79. The Red Pill  |  July 1, 2009 at 3:46 pm

    I just recommend people to check it because it is better to get the warning from your doctor than it is from your body. As it turns out, my event came before my dad’s and his sister’s, so family history didn’t have time to factor in.

    I had to quit smoking (which I still struggle with after 7 years, though I haven’t gone off the wagon!), and I take a handful of pills daily to manage it.

    OK that’s the end of my preaching. I went into health mode when Tex uttered those 2 not-so-little words—”myocardial infarction”.

  • 80. Elric66  |  July 1, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    Revolting even for islam

    This morning 100 Christian houses and churches were set on fire by local Muslims in the city of Kasur South, east of Lahore, Pakistan. The riots were incited by broadcasts from local mosques.

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/07/pakistan-muslim-mob-burns-down-100-christian-homes-acid-thrown-on-women-and-children-13-hospitalized.html#comments

    Incited by local mosques? Shocker

  • 81. Elric66  |  July 1, 2009 at 4:07 pm

    Check out the new demomarxtist Senator from MN.

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/.a/6a00e008c6b4e58834011570a53f5a970c-pi

    Congrats

  • 82. Marc  |  July 1, 2009 at 4:08 pm

    Tex,
    apology accepted. For what it’s worth, my initial comment as to regard to your post wasn’t intended to be insulting, it was more a function of my time – I don’t have much lately, hence the shortwinded post. I see I’ve already gotten behind in this comment string already – how you guys keep up I’ll never know. 12 hour work days and more nonsense means I haven’t had much time to blog or really, well anything outside of work.

    In fact there’s likely to be some changes over at In One Ear… Out the Other soon. I’m getting kind of tired of the day to day politics crap and I’d like to get back towards writing more history and environmental ethics, which are actually more my fields. It was nice and exciting being a hits monster, writing on current politics and seeing 1,000 plus hits a day, but once you get past that initial rush, well, it’s tiring. Not giving up politics, just think it’s time for a breather.

    Anyways Tex, if you’re looking for more intelligent debate, I’m sure you’ll find it in the future. Today that, I’ve got to get back to it- already behind.

  • 83. Elric66  |  July 1, 2009 at 6:49 pm

    Swift Beef Co. installs footbaths and bidets for Muslim workers — and they still file civil rights complaints

    The Swift company has been working hard to accommodate its Muslim workers, but they are still not satisfied, and are demanding even more accommodation. They are not demanding equality of treatment — no other religious group has special accommodation at Swift. Rather, they are demanding that they be given privileges above and beyond those granted to other employees. Previously the company has adjusted its schedule to accommodate the Ramadan fast, over the objections of non-Muslim workers. Swift also committed the grave sin of firing Muslim workers who were most active in trying to strong-arm and intimidate the plant into further concessions. And that effort has not ended.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026793.php#respond

    And will never end. But all religions are the same, right Dodger?

  • 85. The Red Pill  |  July 1, 2009 at 8:01 pm

    Elric: Did those evil Muslims take any Swift Beef Co. executives hostage and then trade them for the footbaths?

    Did they threaten to send in suicide squads?

    Decapitations?

    What is the terrible deed these Muslims did to get Swift Beef Co. to install footbaths? Did they do anything but ask, and keep asking?

    Or maybe Swift Beef Co. wants happy workers?

    What is the motivating factor here? It sure can’t be “demands.” If it were that easy, I’d have made more “demands” to my past employers.

  • 86. Elric66  |  July 1, 2009 at 8:08 pm

    “What is the terrible deed these Muslims did to get Swift Beef Co. to install footbaths? Did they do anything but ask, and keep asking?”

    Get CAIR and the ACLU involved.

    Or maybe Swift Beef Co. wants happy workers?”

    Well they arent happy, they keep making demands

    “What is the motivating factor here? It sure can’t be “demands.” If it were that easy, I’d have made more “demands” to my past employers.”

    islam and getting the kaffir to comply with islam.

    “Did those evil Muslims take any Swift Beef Co. executives hostage and then trade them for the footbaths?”

    Nope. Legal jihad

    Any other questions?

  • 87. Elric66  |  July 1, 2009 at 8:15 pm

    And coincidently enough, its the same plant where ecol i recently broke out. I guess we may know some of their tactics.

  • 88. Elric66  |  July 1, 2009 at 9:05 pm

    “Can Obama Make You Better In Bed?”

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/07/latest-media-retardery-obama-can-make-you-fuck-better.html#comments

    Jesus Christ make it stop!

  • 90. The Red Pill  |  July 1, 2009 at 9:33 pm

    ““What is the motivating factor here? It sure can’t be “demands.” If it were that easy, I’d have made more “demands” to my past employers.”

    islam and getting the kaffir to comply with islam.”

    I don’t mean the Muslim motivation. I mean the Swift Beef Co. motivation.

    If a company gives way to “demands” from its employees, who is realy at fault? The employees for making the demands, or the employer for giving in to them?

  • 91. Elric66  |  July 1, 2009 at 9:41 pm

    “I don’t mean the Muslim motivation. I mean the Swift Beef Co. motivation.”

    Afraid of getting sued by the ACLU and/or CAIR.

    “If a company gives way to “demands” from its employees, who is realy at fault? The employees for making the demands, or the employer for giving in to them?”

    It depends. If a company cant afford frivolous lawsuits it might have no choice. But of course I do blame the employees for using legal bully tactics to force its religious beliefs on a private business.

    So when will it end? When they dont have to handle pork? You know its against their “religion”. How about forcing the female employees to cover up. Dont want them to feel “harassed” by “scantily clad” female kaffirs.

    I see the slippery slope this is going down because Eurabia is already further down it. Doesnt take a genius to see it will be coming hear as well.

  • 92. Elric66  |  July 1, 2009 at 10:18 pm

    A school told a child to remove a Christian cross she was wearing even though it lets Sikh children wear bangles as part of their religion.

    Lauren Grimshaw-Brown was told to take off a necklace with a cross on it because of health and safety fears.

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/07/uk-church-of-england-school-bans-girl-from-wearing-crucifix.html#comments

    Health and safety fears? Hmmm I wonder from who. Any idea Red Pill?

  • 93. Rutherford  |  July 2, 2009 at 12:39 am

    Next? How about more Gov Palin bashing

    Elric, actually when Rabbit wrote “next” he was correcting a previous comment, not actually asking “next?”

    But since you brought up Palin, why do I need to lift a finger when I have Vanity Fair to do all the heavy lifting. I haven’t read the piece yet but I hear it’s another doozy.

    I’ll say this … McCain had a bunch of scumbags working for him on the campaign. It’s one thing for me to have a visceral reaction to Palin. It’s quite another for her former campaign staff to backstab her and spread nasty stories about her. While I will never “like” the woman, she deserved a better top of the ticket than John McCain (whom as we know was a woman-hater to begin with).

    I’ll say this too … if Sarah just shuts the F up, spends the next two years in the Wasila Public Library, and studies up on things, I would welcome her as a Pres candidate in 2012. I would not be caught dead voting for her but damn what an election that would be! The black lib all conservatives hate against the 21st century Annie Oakley that all libs hate. Now that’s a match up I’d pay to see! :-D

  • 94. Rutherford  |  July 2, 2009 at 12:42 am

    Regarding comment 42, excellent Elric … you’re reading my twitter feed in the side bar! If you think I’m obnoxious here, truth is I save my most snarky comments for Twitter. Something about that 140 character limit that encourages snarkiness. :-)

  • 95. Rutherford  |  July 2, 2009 at 12:45 am

    I think someone mentioned it somewhere in this thread, but hey … isn’t anyone gonna congratulate me for the new filibuster proof Senate I’ve got?

    Be afraid my friends … be very afraid. With 60 solid votes in the Senate, Dictator Obama will get EVERYTHING he wants!!!!

    Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha!!! :-D :-D :-D :evil:

  • 96. Rutherford  |  July 2, 2009 at 12:47 am

    OK when I get this silly it is a clear sign of sleep deprivation. I’m off to bed. Tomorrow I will tackle some of the comments in this thread I have thus far ignored AND I have a new blog post germinating in my head probably to be published by tomorrow night. This one also “inspired” by Elric.

    Lord have mercy!

  • 97. Elric66  |  July 2, 2009 at 12:50 am

    “I’ll say this too … if Sarah just shuts the F up”

    You know, I say that about thuggy everyday since you cant turn on the TV without TOTUS trying to pedal his latest scam.

  • 98. Elric66  |  July 2, 2009 at 12:51 am

    “I think someone mentioned it somewhere in this thread, but hey … isn’t anyone gonna congratulate me for the new filibuster proof Senate I’ve got?”

    I thought you libs were all for bipartisanship. Another lib lie?

  • 99. Rutherford  |  July 2, 2009 at 12:55 am

    TOTUS — cute.

    As for Obama’s frequent TV appearances, it’s called the bully pulpit and it was invented by a Republican — Teddy Roosevelt.

  • 100. Elric66  |  July 2, 2009 at 12:59 am

    “But since you brought up Palin, why do I need to lift a finger when I have Vanity Fair to do all the heavy lifting. I haven’t read the piece yet but I hear it’s another doozy.”

    You libs sure hate her. You that scared? I cant explain it any other way. I have never in my life seen such hatred for a single politician. I could understand it more if she were a Senator where her vote effects national policy but she is a Governor in far away Alaska. Its very confusing and extremely disturbing to be perfectly honest.

    But you are right in one regard, its Juan McVain’s people that are part of the unhinged crowd. She scares the RINO’s as well. They had their chances and lost. Now its time to go back to conservative principles.

  • 101. Rutherford  |  July 2, 2009 at 1:01 am

    I thought you libs were all for bipartisanship. Another lib lie?

    My favorite socialist, Bernie Sanders, put it quite nicely tonight. He basically said the filibuster is a waste of time … it’s purely obstructionist. Once the filibuster is stopped (by what I believe is called cloture), then folks can vote any way they want. But the important thing is not to let the Republicans get in the way of a vote being taken.

  • 102. Elric66  |  July 2, 2009 at 1:02 am

    TOTUS — cute.

    As for Obama’s frequent TV appearances, it’s called the bully pulpit and it was invented by a Republican — Teddy Roosevelt.

    Yeah but Teddy never cozied up to America’s enemies like thuggy does.

    Iranian government executing protesters…….good

    Honduras kicking out their president for violating their constitution……..bad

  • 103. Elric66  |  July 2, 2009 at 1:04 am

    “But the important thing is not to let the Republicans get in the way of a vote being taken.”

    Let them vote. This train wreck is all on the demomarxists. People arent buying the “Lets blame Bush” rhetoric anymore.

  • 104. The Red Pill  |  July 2, 2009 at 2:31 am

    “Let’s blame Bush” is over. Gibbs said we can start judging the effects of the stimulus right now, so this cluster-f*ck now belongs to Barack Obama and the Democratic party.

    Elric: Not bad points, but I’m going to disagree that this is a huge deal. I agree that organizations and lobbyists suck and make people do what they might not want to. Unfortunately, there are far too many of them with far too much power. The ones you mentioned are certainly amung them, AIPAC would be another.

    That’s the thing with freedoms. Everyone has them, and many exercise them to the fullest. And they don’t always do it in ways you or I like.

    But if you want to see slippery slopes, start taking religious freedoms away from people. That is what you should really be afraid of, not the opposite.

  • 105. Elric66  |  July 2, 2009 at 8:34 am

    “start taking religious freedoms away from people.”

    You arent taking them away. Im just saying that no religion has a right to turn the work place into its own house of worship. And to be honest, you really do not understand the mentality and motivation of islam. Not many people do. They just view it as something similar to Judaism or Christianity with a few differences. Its the farthest thing from the truth.

    I was accused of being a “phobe” because of the Shift case. I said it wouldnt end there and being the “phobe” that I am, I was right. They push and when thy see they can get something, they will push for more and more.

    You must remember this is Dar-al-Haub. They wont stop til its Dar-al-islam. Its not paranoia. Its the nature of islam.

    And I wouldnt compare AIPAC to CAIR. CAIR is an extension of the Muslim Brotherhood. I suggest you look up the battleplan of the Muslim Brotherhood. Its happening as we speak and its not with bombs, its with lawyers and politicians.

    http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/091707dnmetbrotherhood.35ce2b6.html

  • 106. Elric66  |  July 2, 2009 at 9:24 am

    Heres some posters for your 4th of July tea party Dodger. :-)

    http://www.thepeoplescube.com/red/viewtopic.php?t=3648

    Tell me which one is your favorite :-)

  • 107. Elric66  |  July 2, 2009 at 9:36 am

    Pakistan: Almost 700 Christians forced to flee village after Muslims incited by mosque broadcasts go on rampage

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026800.php#respond

    ahhh the “tolerance” of islam

    And again, getting their marching orders from a mosque

  • 108. Elric66  |  July 2, 2009 at 9:42 am

    Cool thousands of muslims across America will descend on DC to celebrate the 4th. Sponsored by the ISNA.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/07/the_isna_conference.html

  • 109. Tex Taylor  |  July 2, 2009 at 10:54 am

    Elric,

    Let “R” celebrate his filibuster proof majority. Every job report coming out is showing that not only is Obama’s stimulus not working, it appears to be having a detrimental effect. In fact, I can’t see one success yet in six months that the Big O can make claim to. This is the Titanic at full throttle, with Obama captaining the ship and idiots like the socialist Bernie Sanders rearranging the deck chairs.

    Patience is required here. In about six months, this arrogance that Rutherford carries along with the shit eatin’ grin will be a daily dose of excuse making, back stabbing, and blame assessment. We’ll be hearing the charges of racism and the like – you watch.

    Republicans don’t want any part of this plan. Give the Dems some more rope. Plus this Minnesota scam where a ‘B’ cast comedian just won the election shows not only what a joke Minnesota is, but what a joke the Democratic party has become. Now, they can’t make any claims to taking the high moral ground about stolen elections and the like.

    Bad times are a coming…but I’m still going to love watching them implode. :wink:

  • 110. Elric66  |  July 2, 2009 at 11:01 am

    Tex,

    Thats the silver lining. Its all on the Dems now. People are already seeing through this administration. Not enough but slowly but surely. That Dodger will ignore any question or statement on thuggy is telling. Deep down he knows the truth. If I was so wrong about thuggy, Dodger would point it out but he doesnt.

    2010 will be make or break for America. This is why thuggy is pushing all this crap now. This is why he is in a hurry. He wants to do as much damage before he is made irrelevant.

  • 111. The Red Pill  |  July 2, 2009 at 2:28 pm

    Elric: “you really do not understand the mentality and motivation of islam. Not many people do.”

    But you’re one of the exceptions that understands that 1.5 billion people all have the same mentality and motivation?

    “I was accused of being a “phobe” because of the Shift case.”

    Not by me.

    “And I wouldnt compare AIPAC to CAIR. CAIR is an extension of the Muslim Brotherhood.”

    And AIPAC is an extension of the Zionist Israeli regime. Both lobbies have far too much influence over our politics.

  • 112. Elric66  |  July 2, 2009 at 6:45 pm

    “But you’re one of the exceptions that understands that 1.5 billion people all have the same mentality and motivation?”

    Did I say that? Who knows how many adhere to the traditional teachings of islam. With the practice of taqiyya, its very difficult to know for sure.

    “And AIPAC is an extension of the Zionist Israeli regime. Both lobbies have far too much influence over our politics.”

    Zionist? Ahhh its becoming clearer now.

  • 113. Elric66  |  July 2, 2009 at 7:12 pm

    Thuggy gets more despicable every day.

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/07/obama-suspends-military-relations-with-honduras.html#comments

    Something else for Dodger to dodge because he cant defend all this thuggary going on.

    Could also ask DR why it was a good move to not stand up to a nation executing protesters but then Obama is meddling in a countries affairs where its president was ousted Constitutionally.

    Seriously it is getting tiresome people making excuses for this POS. The jerkoff keeps siding with tyranny every chance he gets.

  • 114. Rutherford  |  July 2, 2009 at 11:23 pm

    Regarding comment 106, my favorite poster is this one:

    Ignorant Uncle Sam

    because it so well demonstrates the ignorance of those who truly buy into it.

  • 115. Elric66  |  July 2, 2009 at 11:56 pm

    Again Dodger couldnt defend thuggy like this one.

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/07/obama-town-hall-retardery-all-3-supposedly-random-audience-members-he-called-on-had-close-ties-with-.html

    I guess thuggy doesnt like tough questions like Dodger

  • 116. Elric66  |  July 3, 2009 at 7:10 am

    Honduras thug: Help me, Barack Obama, you’re my only hope

    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/07/02/honduras-thug-help-me-barack-obama-youre-my-only-hope/

  • 117. Elric66  |  July 3, 2009 at 8:48 am

    Does Obama need a brain scan?

    “I sincerely hope that when the president goes in for his annual check-up, the doctors at Bethesda will do a brain scan. Surely something must be terribly wrong with a man who seems to be far more concerned with a Jew building a house in Israel than with Muslims building a nuclear bomb in Iran.” — Burt Prelutsky (thanks to Errol Phillips)

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026817.php#respond

  • 118. Elric66  |  July 3, 2009 at 8:51 am

    Amnesty International ignores Hamas’ boasting about using civilians as human shields, says they didn’t use them but Israel did, accuses Israel of “war crimes”

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026812.php#respond

    Good dhimmis, good leftists

  • 119. Elric66  |  July 3, 2009 at 10:51 am

    U.S. to block new sanctions on Iran

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026826.php#respond

    So DR, you agree with this too? Dont want to see to want to meddle, right? Well except in Israel and Honduras anyway.

  • 120. dead rabbit 2.0  |  July 3, 2009 at 12:07 pm

    Why would I agree with that? You must not have read what I repeatedly wrote. After all, I thought I made myself pretty clear.

    Keep putting words in my mouth like that and you will cause me to reminisce how we used to pillage your cozy little air force barracks parties.

    Dude, when looking back at how many times you have posted and at what times you have posted, I’m getting concerned.

    It’s 4th of July, go and enjoy this country you love so much.

    Suggestions from the Rabbit:

    1. Go talk to a woman, in real life, sans politics. If you have a wife, try it with her.

    2. Ok, probably impossible. Go fishing, you fricking turd.

    I plan on doing both, with limited success.

    Happy 4th everyone!!!! See you in a couple days.

  • 121. Rutherford  |  July 3, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    I plan on doing both, with limited success.

    Well, it’s very possible you can’t fish worth a damn but I somehow doubt you have any trouble talking to your wife. That little Rabbit that’s on the way isn’t exactly dropping out of the sky if you know what I mean. ;-)

    To Rabbit and the rest of the RL Blog “regulars”, have a great 4th of July weekend. I’ll be spending at least part of the weekend putting together another post (more academic than political) which should appear in the next day or so.

    Clearly we don’t all agree on how to keep this country on the right track but I have no doubt that we all love the US of A and want what’s best for it. To prove it, let’s all get drunk and shoot fire into the sky! :-D

  • 122. Elric66  |  July 3, 2009 at 12:40 pm

    “Why would I agree with that?”

    Because we dont want to seem to want to “meddle”

    “Keep putting words in my mouth like that and you will cause me to reminisce how we used to pillage your cozy little air force barracks parties.”

    OK??????

    “Dude, when looking back at how many times you have posted and at what times you have posted, I’m getting concerned.”

    Thanks for the concern

    “It’s 4th of July, go and enjoy this country you love so much.”

    I’ll enjoy what little freedoms we have left before the demomarxists get done.

    2. Ok, probably impossible. Go fishing, you fricking turd.

    LMAO

    “I plan on doing both, with limited success.”

    Good for you, you do that.

  • 123. Rutherford  |  July 3, 2009 at 12:45 pm

    Again Dodger couldn’t defend thuggy like this one.

    The MSM was concerned about the “style” of the town hall before your source got their panties in a knot. Chip Reid of CBS and veteran Hearst News Service reporter Helen Thomas tore Robert Gibbs a new butthole about it.

  • 124. Elric66  |  July 3, 2009 at 1:43 pm

    Pretty bad when Helen Thomas calls out Obama on his thuggary.

    Dont know why they are shocked. Im not. But I saw through him from the beginning.

    Now if someone will call him out on siding with the mullahs. Why does thuggy always side with tyranny Dodger? Can you explain it?

  • 125. Elric66  |  July 3, 2009 at 2:00 pm

    More Obama thuggary and lies

    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/07/03/the-obama-inquisition-on-climate-change/

    Never ends does it Dodger. Is this the “change” you voted for? You dont have to answer, your silence on everything I bring up is an answer in itself. If you could defend thuggy, you would. But you cant so you go on twitter and rant about Rush Limbaugh or Gov Palin.

  • 126. Elric66  |  July 3, 2009 at 2:46 pm

    Faisalabad (AsiaNews) – Tortured at length by a group of Muslims, then arrested by police on charges – perfectly fabricated- that he had burned pages of the Koran.This is what happened last July 1st to Imran Masih, a young Christian from Hajwary, Faisalabad district, yet another victim of blasphemy. For the director of the Commission for Interreligious Dialogue “a new wave of anti-Christian extremism” has started.

    Father Yousaf Yaqub, of the parish of Hajwary confirmed to AsiaNews that the allegations “are totally invented” and the reasons for the attack originate from “business questions.”The shop belonging to the young Christian’s family, in fact, is better located and has higher revenues than others in the area. For fear of further attacks by extremists, the relatives of Masih fled to a secret hiding place.

    “Imran was cleaning his fruit and vegetable shop –Fr. Yaqub reports – then he collected waste paper and burned it in the street, a common practice in the area. ” The owner of a nearby shop accused the Christian of burning pages of the Koran,calling the attention of other Muslims. Before long, a crowd began to beat and torture the young man, who was only saved by police intervention. The testimony of another Muslim also favored the opening an investigation against Masih.

    The news of his arrest and spread quickly through the various mosques in the city. The prison where the young Christian was being held was besieged by thousands of furious extremists, who called for his death. The crowd blocked the main roads and burned tires.

    1000′s of “extremists”? I thought there were only a handful. :-(

  • 127. Tex Taylor  |  July 3, 2009 at 6:02 pm

    Hey Rutherford? What are you going to write about now with Sarah Palin leaving? I understand, contrary to our stupid media, that she is done with politics. Another person who you don’t like that was a still a decent human being, no matter how you spin it.

    I think you’re going to be shocked at the reaction of this – for a time shallow types like you are going to gloat and Democrats will dance and the stories will spin, but I think if she removes herself from politics altogether, your worst political nightmare is going to come true.

    All these hacks you’ve been supporting are going to be turned on viciously. All of these people you bragged about who were “vetting” her? I think people have had it with the Dem’s game of personal destruction and it is now time to go to war with the bullies, including those in the media.

    I admire her more for this if it’s not game playing than anything she could have done politically. If she is doing this just to situate herself for a position, then I will join you in the criticism. If she truly quits, then she truly has been a breath of fresh air.

  • 128. Alfie  |  July 3, 2009 at 7:41 pm

    Palin leaving ‘cuz she can’t get reelected in Alaska and because she needs the bigger national stage. I predict you’ll see her around Labor day somewhere in the 48.

  • 129. Rutherford  |  July 3, 2009 at 9:06 pm

    Tex and Alfie, here’s the deal.

    If Sarah is getting out of politics altogether, I will take back almost every nasty thing I’ve ever said about her. She would show herself to be the rare politician who figures out she has no business being a politician. Perhaps a radio show or a host job on a Fox News Channel hour-long.

    However, if she is doing this to spend the next three years running for the Rep Pres nomination full-time, then she is more of a loon than I ever thought she was. You don’t prove your political chops by quitting the one major job you’ve been elected to.

    You fellas know there is likely to be another shoe to drop on this one. I don’t know what it is. Rumors out of Alaska say criminal charges of tax evasion. Let me repeat … rumors out of Alaska, not some slander invented in the belt-way.

    If this is truly her saying, I’ve had it with politics as usual and I’m outta here … then my hat’s off to her. That’s a big IF. Time will tell.

    P.S. I’m surprised you guys didn’t accuse me of driving her out office since she said in the news conference that her kids were tired of seeing their baby brother Trig made fun of in the press.

  • 130. Elric66  |  July 3, 2009 at 9:09 pm

    “Does the drama ever end? Sarah Palin to resign as Governor by end of month. Did she just kill her Pres ambitions?”

    You better not hope not for the sake of the country. Like a typical lib, you are never happy.

  • 131. Elric66  |  July 3, 2009 at 9:15 pm

    “If Sarah is getting out of politics altogether, I will take back almost every nasty thing I’ve ever said about her.”

    Gee how magnanimous of you

    “She would show herself to be the rare politician who figures out she has no business being a politician.”

    Really? Why not. Because you have an unhealthy hatred towards her like most libs?

    “However, if she is doing this to spend the next three years running for the Rep Pres nomination full-time, then she is more of a loon than I ever thought she was.”

    Why? Not like she is a 1 term Sen/ community organizer that surrounded herself with thugs.

    “You don’t prove your political chops by quitting the one major job you’ve been elected to.”

    Like spending most of your Sen. career running for president?

    “Rumors out of Alaska say criminal charges of tax evasion. Let me repeat … rumors out of Alaska, not some slander invented in the belt-way.”

    So? Thuggy made tax evasion a requirement for Washington.

    “P.S. I’m surprised you guys didn’t accuse me of driving her out office since she said in the news conference that her kids were tired of seeing their baby brother Trig made fun of in the press.”

    No, you just defended it like a good lib. I guess that means thuggy’s kids are legit game, right?

  • 132. Elric66  |  July 3, 2009 at 9:17 pm

    And in good lib tradition, Huff takes a parting shot at Trig.

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/07/unfuckingreal-huff-po-says-goodbye-to-sarah-palin-with-retard-jokes.html

  • 133. Tex Taylor  |  July 3, 2009 at 9:42 pm

    She would show herself to be the rare politician who figures out she has no business being a politician. Perhaps a radio show or a host job on a Fox News Channel hour-long.

    Now why don’t you tell us what makes a politician “R”?

    I know that you continue to mock the one alternative to the typical pagan, homo, flaccid, blame America MSM opinion. But what makes someone different watching FOX news than say MSNBC? Besides the fact FOX draws about 4-5 times the crowd and has far better looking women than the metrosexual queers on MSNBC?

    Why don’t you point me to this politician that we should all admire to lead us? Damn sure hasn’t been Obama. Now you wouldn’t know this because of the monotonous, “homo”geneous crowd you like run with, but Obama is starting to lose his shtick. Honest Obe hasn’t shown much of anything since the Greek columns at the football field. And if you haven’t been reading the paper, the majority party isn’t doing worth a shit running the country right now – just in case you haven’t noticed. Can you point me to Obama successes, besides three sharpshooters who happened to blow some pirates head’s off?

    Where are master politicians of Lincoln reincarnated you promised us if Jimmy Obama elected?

  • 134. Tex Taylor  |  July 3, 2009 at 9:46 pm

    You fellas know there is likely to be another shoe to drop on this one. I don’t know what it is. Rumors out of Alaska say criminal charges of tax evasion. Let me repeat … rumors out of Alaska, not some slander invented in the belt-way.

    Well, so far all these slanderous charges from your political hacks have proven false. And you don’ t know shit besides the lies that are parroted at PuffHo, KKKos, and MSNBC.

    You going to apologize if these charges too prove completely false? Or maybe Elric is right in his dodging charges?

  • 135. Elric66  |  July 3, 2009 at 10:15 pm

    “Can you point me to Obama successes, besides three sharpshooters who happened to blow some pirates head’s off?”

    Actually I would phrase it as America’s successes under thuggy. And good luck with Dodger answering anything concerning the thug in chief. Dodger is on a media blackout on that.

    “You going to apologize if these charges too prove completely false? Or maybe Elric is right in his dodging charges?”

    Ohh I am right on that.

    And you don’ t know shit besides the lies that are parroted at PuffHo”

    Just look at that hit piece on Trig I just posted. Disgusting even for Huff. Libs love to label us the cruel vicious ones. Just look at that hit piece and tell me who is the vicious ones. And of course Dodger wont say crap about it. Its not even like Huff is a fringe blog, its one of the most popular blogs around.

  • 137. Elric66  |  July 4, 2009 at 12:26 am

    Muslim youths shout abuse, throw rocks at gay man in…Minneapolis

    “America and Islam are not exclusive, and need not be in competition. Instead, they overlap, and share common principles – principles of justice and progress; tolerance and the dignity of all human beings.” — Barack Obama, Cairo, June 4, 2009

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026832.php#respond

  • 138. Elric66  |  July 4, 2009 at 11:14 am

    N’ Koria Fires Missiles on 4th July, Israeli officials “troubled” by Obama’s softness

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/07/n-koria-fires-missiles-on-4th-july-israeli-officials-troubled-by-obamas-softness.html#comments

    So are real patriotic Americans.

  • 139. Rutherford  |  July 4, 2009 at 4:38 pm

    More change……………….

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/07/pentagon-denies-flyover-of-god-and-country-rally-for-first-time-in-42-years-because-of-its-christian.html

    All I can say is a hearty hallelujah! About damn time we did not do flyovers for this event. Defending this country has not a damn thing to do with God, particularly not a particular God (i.e. a Christian one).

    I know, Elric you’ll get lots of support from most of the commenters on this blog regarding your article citation but you won’t get it from me. I say to the Pentagon, BRAVO!

  • 140. Rutherford  |  July 4, 2009 at 4:53 pm

    Tex, how could I let this nugget get by me?

    Plus this Minnesota scam where a ‘B’ cast comedian just won the election shows not only what a joke Minnesota is, but what a joke the Democratic party has become.

    Ahhh Tex, history lesson time:
    Sonny Bono — Republican Congressman
    Clint Eastwood — Republican Mayor
    Fred “Love Boat Gopher” Grandy — Republican Congressman
    Fred Thompson — Republican Senator
    Jesse Ventura — Independent (right leaning) Governor
    Arnold Schwarzenegger — Republican Governor
    and the cream of the crop
    Ronald “Bedtime for Bonzo” Reagan — Republican Governor and President of the United States

    LOL … Tex do you REALLY want to go there? :-D :-D

  • 141. Elric66  |  July 4, 2009 at 5:15 pm

    “I know, Elric you’ll get lots of support from most of the commenters on this blog regarding your article citation but you won’t get it from me.”

    Well we know the government is your God Dodger. I didnt expect you to agree. You are an Obama drone. You are in lock step with thuggy.

    “LOL … Tex do you REALLY want to go there? :-D :-D”

    Yes lets go there. Outside of the jerkinator, you have nothing.

    And once again, you dodge anything on thuggy except to praise his Godlessness. Why do you keep dodging Dodger? And interesting you praise the grounding for God and Country. Did you also praise thuggy when he scared the shit out of New Yorkers for that tax payer photo op?

    Again, your silence is answer enough so you really dont have to answer dodger. I just keep asking tough questions about thuggy and his agenda on destroying this nation just to emphasize that you cant defend his treachery. Its fun watching you dodge. :-)

    And interesting about Reagan. He was actually a democrat when he made those movies.

    And as for Sen. Smalley. He’s already at a negative 10 right out of the gate. Just wait til he starts talking, should be amusing to say the least.

  • 142. solar1  |  July 4, 2009 at 9:53 pm

    Al Franken is a little bit worse of a comedian. I find it sad people laugh at some of his jokes.

  • 143. Elric66  |  July 5, 2009 at 8:31 am

    BTW Dodger, any of those Republicans fail to pay their taxes?

    http://www.kxmb.com/printArticle.asp?ViewPrintable=True&ArticleId=229313

    Why is it that the ones that want to raise your taxes are the ones that evade taxes? Another question for Dodger to…………..dodge.

  • 144. Elric66  |  July 5, 2009 at 8:41 am

    Muslims slaughter Christians at Sunday service

    No worries. They were probably creationists. And maybe even right-wing extremists.

    “Philippines church bomb blast kills five,” by Anne Barrowclough for the Times Online, July 5 (thanks to all who sent this in):

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026841.php#respond

    Ahhhhh…go ol “tolerant” “peaceful” islam strikes again

  • 145. Elric66  |  July 5, 2009 at 8:44 am

    Former Federal Agent: “Then CAIR had cropped my head shot onto a Nazi uniform”

    The Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), unindicted co-conspirators in a jihad terror funding case and an arm of the Muslim Brotherhood, which is dedicated in its own words to “eliminating and destroying Western civilization from within,” is holding its annual convention in Washington.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026840.php#respond

    But we have more important things to worry about; like Mikeel Jackson, Palin’s kid and blaming Bush for everything.

  • 146. Elric66  |  July 5, 2009 at 8:49 am

    Oh dear, Icarus is crashing back to earth

    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/07/02/poll-obama-slipping-further-on-economy/

  • 147. Elric66  |  July 5, 2009 at 8:59 am

    As North Korea launches more rockets and the same with Iran the thug in chief wants to weaken our defenses.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/04/07/lawmakers-warn-missile-defense-cuts-leave-vulnerable/

    Why Dodger why? Why does thuggy hate this nation so much?

  • 148. Elric66  |  July 5, 2009 at 9:52 am

    Make sure you vote, its your patriotic duty.

    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/07/05/poll-what-was-the-obamateurism-of-the-week-5/

  • 149. Tex Taylor  |  July 5, 2009 at 12:37 pm

    “R”,

    Al Franken winning a Democratic position would be like Pee Wee Herman winning a Republican position.

    Sorry “R”, Franken is that bad a comedian. And to call Jesse Ventura “right” leaning, just shows how far left you are…that again was parody, right?

  • 150. Elric66  |  July 5, 2009 at 4:48 pm

    Inside a British Sharia Court

    Such as? ‘Child abuse, under-age sex, teenage pregnancy, for example.’

    I ask what the penalty would be for under-age sex. ‘You won’t like it. But sharia says if they’re caught doing it, you stone the woman.’

    Mr Sarwar’s other suggestion is to adapt the ‘three strikes’ policy on crime. Instead of being jailed on the third conviction, a criminal could face having a hand chopped off.

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/07/inside-a-british-sharia-court.html

    Isnt multiculturalism great Dodger?

  • 151. Elric66  |  July 5, 2009 at 7:17 pm

    Why do “progressives” hate this country so much?

    On this July 4, we would do well to renounce nationalism and all its symbols: its flags, its pledges of allegiance, its anthems, its insistence in song that God must single out America to be blessed.

    Is not nationalism — that devotion to a flag, an anthem, a boundary so fierce it engenders mass murder — one of the great evils of our time, along with racism, along with religious hatred?

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/07/progressive-magazine-puts-its-visceral-hatred-for-america-on-full-display-this-4th-of-july.html#comments

    But yet, these same jerkoffs have no problem with islamic and leftist nations.

  • 152. Elric66  |  July 5, 2009 at 8:53 pm

    A HUGE thug in chief moment.

    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/07/05/obama-hey-lets-bypass-the-senate-on-treaty-ratifications/

    For a “Constitutional” lawyer, he certainly doesnt give a damn about violating it time and time again.

    He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur;

  • 153. Rutherford  |  July 5, 2009 at 11:47 pm

    Elric your last citation’s article ends with the phrase “words just words”. I say about this article, “dumb just dumb”.

    It is very clear from what is written that ratification by the Senate will not be bypassed. The treaty is considered critical enough that no chance can be taken that it could expire. Having a temporary executive order to maintain the treaty, with Senate ratification to follow in the near term is perfectly reasonable.

  • 154. Elric66  |  July 5, 2009 at 11:52 pm

    Hmmmmm the face of the Iranian uprising was a Christian

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/07/neda-soltan-face-of-uprising-in-iran-was-a-christian.html#comments

    “The treaty is considered critical enough that no chance can be taken that it could expire”

    Hmmm I see. Some things are too important to follow the Constitution. Spoken just like an Obama drone. Thought so.

  • 155. Alfie  |  July 6, 2009 at 10:26 am

    R @ 153
    ironically the executive level shortcut albeit temporary on the Russian side requires the action of the Duma. The Legislative body. Bwah bwah bwah.
    All hot air aside this is a joke. If the two sides really want it they’ll mark time march on the issues. Obama would be better off avoiding the phony headline grabbing crap which is where he’s going with this and just man to man Dmitry M with the “It’s the first thing I do when I get home” line. Reid should have this on the floor right now for a quick up down. Otherwise the questionable excutive order will be one sided (Russian side it won’t be) and cover past the summer recess ???? That may be legal like a recess appointment but it’s ugly.
    This whole thing is crap.

  • 156. Rutherford  |  July 6, 2009 at 10:35 am

    Alfie, I’m a bit puzzled. Are you basically saying the hotair article is much ado about nothing? (In which case I agree with you).

  • 157. Alfie  |  July 6, 2009 at 10:48 am

    R I’m severly decaffeinated today and pressed from many corners. What I’m saying is HotAirs presentation is a bunch of crap. The story though is important,Obama is wrong. Otherwise i apologize that you and others will have to decipher the previous comment for the reasons I feel the way I do.

  • 158. Rutherford  |  July 6, 2009 at 11:06 am

    LOL Alfie no apology needed. The decaf situation makes perfect sense to me.

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