Obama Video Address: July 4, 2009

Watching this week’s video address reminded me a bit of the HBO biography of John Adams that aired a year or so ago. Our independence from Great Britain was not forged by a monolithic group of men all headed in the same direction. On the contrary there was heated debate on how and when we should declare our independence. There were different attitudes toward Great Britain. There were different notions of what our new country should look like.

Yet out of this tumult, a great nation was born, one that has evolved over 233 years to broaden the freedoms of all of its citizens and to always strive to do what is morally right. Every two years, we place our trust in members of the executive and/or legislative branches of our country, through freely held elections, to make and enforce laws that will make our country the best that it can be. On this blog, there is emotional debate on the motives of our lawmakers and enforcers. There are some who say our President, in particular, wants to destroy this country as we know it. I say this is foolishness.

Look at the goals laid out by our chief executive and tell me how they are not meant to make America the best it can be? Methods matter. Methods to achieve these goals may be completely off the mark. Time will tell. But the goals are worthy ones and the man charged with leading our country toward those goals is worthy as well.

Our country has survived 233 years of different opinions being debated and adjudicated. Over the long haul, our country has been the better for it. We will survive these times of starkly different approaches and opinions as well. Our forefathers have taught us that the debate is good. More than good it is essential to the preservation of this union we all hold dear.

Let the debates continue.

And now the President of the United States of America:

Respectfully,
Rutherford

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261 thoughts on “Obama Video Address: July 4, 2009

  1. “Look at the goals laid out by our chief executive and tell me how they are not meant to make America the best it can be?”

    Uh huh and when I bring up those goals, you dodge like a good little Obama drone.

    “Our forefathers have taught us that the debate is good. More than good it is essential to the preservation of this union we all hold dear.”

    Uh huh. Is that why thuggy is ramming these bills that no one reads. Is that why he sends his cronies and warns to vet Soto and their own peril? Is that why he is violating the Constitution with a treaty with Russia?

  2. And notice how vague Dodger is? Doesnt actually go into the goals of thuggy and how it will help America. But I really cant blame Dodger for if he did go into specifics, he would know he would sound foolish defending thuggy’s agenda. This is why he also dodges. He cant defend thuggy.

  3. A record cool summer has descended upon many parts of the U.S. after predictions of the “year without a summer.” There has been no significant global warming since 1995, no warming since 1998 and global cooling for the past few years.

    http://www.littlegreenfootballs2.com/

    But thuggy is trying to ram this cap and trade or the friggin planet will burn. You see I present facts to defend my position so tell us Dodger, why is thuggy so determined to lay a heavy tax burden on us and our children for a lie? Why Dodger why. You said his goals are good for America. Well I presented one goal and disputed it with facts.

  4. While Elric’s sheer volume of posts points towards a lonely man and hint to almost a strange sort of fetish, he is correct.

    Rutherford, your blogs never tackle the goals of Obama.

    Where is the debate?

    I plead to you after every blog: Roll your sleeves up and make an argument that what Obama has done or plans to do is sustainable. How about health care?

    Maybe you could write a blog making the argument that quadrupling the national debt has reaped any sort of benefit?

    My buddies are mostly laborers. They remain unemployed. And while most of them voted Obama, you should hear the grumbling now.

    Forget that Obama didn’t come through with the main selling point of the stimulus, that unemployment will stay under 8%. I want to see you make an argument about the SAVED jobs.

    You, see, I’m helping you.

    Please don’t come on here and remind us to debate. Except for pop culture and some fruitful conversations on race, you have NEVER debated or defended the president.

    You are only some trumpeter that sounds off to let us know the royal demagogue is in the castle.

  5. “While Elric’s sheer volume of posts points towards a lonely man and hint to almost a strange sort of fetish, he is correct.”

    Thats funny. Had to add an insult while admitting I am correct.

  6. Yeah, well if your right, your right.

    We were so lied too. Here is a blog idea for Rutherford.

    Write a blog documenting how many times we were told that we have no time to lose in passing the stimulus. That this is such a fast moving emergency, it must be passed within a weekend. That we just don’t have time to read the bill or let the American people digest things like a million dollars for a rare bird in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.

    This stimulus bill isn’t working because there is not much stimulus in it. This was the great cash grab for every pet project in the bastard Congress.

    The parts that do have the characteristics of stimulus are so slow moving because….drum roll…government spending is inefficient and bloated. Why…what a surprise!

    Biden, after telling us to wait for the summer, is now saying wait for the fall for some kind of job creation.

    He keeps saying “he inherited” an economy in much worse shape then he realized, apparently forgetting he has been in Congress longer then I was born.

    To blame the economic melt down on Bush is silly.

    But, damn did Bush set the tone for our nation getting raped by nanny motherfuckers for the next half century.

    Dead Rabbit warned all who would listen to what was going down.

  7. “With Sarah out of the way, perhaps you conservatives can find more credible folks to represent your cause? ”

    Who said she is out of the way?

  8. Doesnt actually go into the goals of thuggy and how it will help America.

    Well really Elric, this is a no-win situation since if I explicitly listed the goals (which should be known to anyone paying attention) I’d simply sound like the Obama-drone you accuse me of being. But fine, I’ll close my eyes, swallow hard, and leap into your trap:

    1. A foreign policy that builds strong alliances and protects America’s interests.
    2. Affordable health care for every American, something that a country as wealthy as ours should be ashamed not to be providing.
    3. An end to reliance on foreign sources of energy, a reliance that compromises and confuses our foreign policy.
    4. An energy policy that does not contribute to the acceleration of our eco-system’s demise.
    5. An economic plan that puts Americans back to work.

    As I stated in the post, one can debate the effectiveness of the methods used to achieve these goals. However, as far as I’m concerned the goals themselves are beyond reproach and fit in perfectly with what is right for our country.

  9. 1. A foreign policy that builds strong alliances and protects America’s interests.

    Like coddling up to dictators and thugs.?

    2. Affordable health care for every American, something that a country as wealthy as ours should be ashamed not to be providing.

    Considering that Medicare and Mediaid are broke. Why doesnt he fix that and how the hell is he going to pay for it?

    3. An end to reliance on foreign sources of energy, a reliance that compromises and confuses our foreign policy.

    Uh huh. Thats why they wont allow drilling or mine our own resources. Even nuclear energy is off the table.

    4. An energy policy that does not contribute to the acceleration of our eco-system’s demise.

    Like I pointed out. The Earth is cooling not heating.

    5. An economic plan that puts Americans back to work.

    LOL Ohhh thats too funny. A plan the moron didnt even read before he signed. Seems to working so far. Driving business overseas and rewarding illegal immigration. Yeah that will create jobs.

    I can see why you dodge.

  10. Who said she is out of the way?

    I consider Rush Limbaugh a blow-hard. He is by my way of thinking, “out of the way”, no threat whatsoever to the democratic agenda. Sarah, mark my words, will be the next Rush in no time flat. In fact, if I were Greta Van Susteren, I’d watch my back big time.

    Folks you have to hand it to Elric. Either he has installed Tweetdeck and jumps the minute I tweet something, or he refreshes my blog page on a regular basis checking my tweets in the sidebar. Dag, now if I could only get a million other Elrics, I might be able to start making money at this! 🙂

  11. Could someone tell me why Obama gets blamed for Congressmen not reading the bills they vote on? First of all, we have to exclude from the equation all the congressmen involved in WRITING the bills. They clearly have read what they wrote.

    That leaves the rest of Congress. If they don’t do their friggin’ job and read the bills upon which they vote, you should be shouting at them. Not at Obama.

  12. And dude…listing the “goals” is stupid. State what the cost of these bills will be and then argue if its worth it or not. That what its all about. Damn.

  13. Nope…never did go fishing…just relaxed…read a book…drank beer……took my nephews to the firework show.

  14. Ohh and Dodger, this “clean” energy stuff the Demomarxists are selling is a scam. Read this

    http://www.physorg.com/news156842404.html

    If they block putting solar panels in the frigging desert, where the hell are you going to put them? Even when you give them what they want, its still not good enough. Also in Cali, thuggy’s blueprint to drag American down the sewer, is literally killing the farms over a fish. The Delta Smelt. Look it up. When I say these people are evil, because no one with any moral compass would be doing what they are doing.

  15. Regarding comment #11:

    1. Obama does not cozy up to thugs. The Honduras thing confuses the crap out of me to be honest because my understanding is that Zelaya wanted to seek another term and just “wanting to” was unconstitutional. What kind of constitution is that? I have not gotten the impression that Zelaya wanted to extend his reign by force. The minute he called for change, he got booted. Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense and I’m guessing our stance on this is based on principle, as opposed to supporting Zelaya’s policies per se. But again … I am admittedly confused on this one. Hardly makes Obama a thug-hugger. (As for Iran, he was absolutely right in the way he responded.)

    On points 2, 3 and 5, you are arguing methods, not the validity of the goals. So I assume you support the goals stated in 2, 3 and 5?

    As for point 4, if I’m not mistaken, the jargon has changed from “global warming” to “climate change” deliberately to counteract scientific neanderthals like you who look at a comparatively cool summer and declare our ecology forever safe from human destruction.

  16. And dude…listing the “goals” is stupid. State what the cost of these bills will be and then argue if its worth it or not. That what its all about. Damn.

    OK, so is it safe to say the time to pursue all these goals was back in 2001 when our country had a huge surplus? There is no free lunch. Any attempt to solve our problems costs money. Bush (sorry to bring him up again) squandered a huge surplus. So what do we do now? Sit in our own crap and just hope things get better?

    Few American businessmen fund their startups from their Daddy’s cushy accounts. Most borrow with the hope (expectation) that they will become successful and pay off their debts and operate in the black. Our country is no different. Deficit spending, in the hope that future success will allow us to pay off debt and operate in the black, is the only way to go. The alternative is do nothing …. basically fiddle while Rome burns.

  17. “Obama does not cozy up to thugs.”

    Oh yes he does.

    “On points 2, 3 and 5, you are arguing methods, not the validity of the goals. So I assume you support the goals stated in 2, 3 and 5?”

    Its not the governments role to provide healthcare, its for the private sector. As for the goal for energy independence, they dont want that, they just want Americans dependant on the government. As I pointed out with the solar panels, its a lie. And for putting Americans back to work. It would go alot quicker if the government butted out.

    “As for point 4, if I’m not mistaken, the jargon has changed from “global warming” to “climate change” deliberately to counteract scientific neanderthals like you who look at a comparatively cool summer and declare our ecology forever safe from human destruction.”

    As I pointed out, the earth has been cooling for a few years, not just one summer. I guess when their various global warming conferences got delayed or canceled due to snow, they had to change the language. Thats what statists do, change the language to push their fascist agenda. So now changing it to “climate change” they can say anything to support their “theory”. But word is getting out on the scam.

  18. LOL regarding comment 25, I notice that the vast majority piping in their opinions on this British situation are Americans (look at the comments section). I wonder what the majority of Brits think about climate change.

  19. yeah thats right Dodger, yuck it up. Because these thugs will be here in America as well. As for what the Brits think about “climate change”, I could care less. They are the walking dead. They will cease to exist as we know them in a generation or 2. I just dont want whats happening there to end up here. Do you?

    But interesting you actually had no comment on the article itself, just a comment on the comments. Nice work Dodger. You never disappoint like the good little drone that you are.

  20. Rutherford: “Obama does not cozy up to thugs.”

    Elric: Oh yes he does.

    WOW…. Elric your powers of debate are astounding. You eviscerate Rutherford with your wordcrafting skills all with a single swipe of your sharp tongue.

    You are the man.

  21. List of thugs Thuggy cozies up to

    Wright
    Ayers
    Chavez
    Abbas
    Ortega
    Zelaya
    Mullahs of Iran
    ACORN
    Muslim Brotherhood
    La Razza
    Hamas
    Khalidi
    Farakhan

    Shall I go on Curator?

    During the campaign, I wrote a piece called “Why Won’t Obama Talk About Columbia? — The years he won’t discuss may explain the Ayers tie he keeps lying about.” So now, nearly six months into the Obama presidency, the mainstream media has finally done a bit of the candidate background reporting it declined to do during the campaign — other than in Wasilla — and whaddya know? The New York Times unearthed a 1983 article called, “Breaking the War Mentality,” that Columbia student Barack Obama wrote for a campus newspaper. The article shows that Obama dreaded American “militarism” and its “military-industrial interests,” while effusing enthusiasm for the dangerously delusional nuclear-freeze movement.

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/07/question-of-the-day.html#comments

    Hmmm that would explain why Thuggy wants to disarm us

  22. Joo – Alternate spelling of Jew- Derived from Cartman on “South Park” “Someone here is a J-O-O!”

    Joo – Internet slang for the word “you.” Most often used by 1337 computer freaks and/or white, male, black wanna-be’s.

    Which are joo Elric? Are you a black wanna-be who hates Jews?

    Do you own the url…

    I-am-anti-semite.wordpress.com

  23. Wow, you are dumber than I thought. Me an antisemite? Now thats a surprise when all my posts have been pro Israel. And like Dodger, you still didnt dispute the names on the list and the reasons why. I guess Ill call you Dodger Jr.

  24. Curator,

    Man, that charge of Jew hating about Elric is lame. I think it would do your little, lefty cerebrum a good deed by going back and reviewing previous Elric posts – your charge completely baseless, and in fact, not only baseless, but horridly wrong – like your politics.

    However, there’s nothing new about that around here.

    ————————————-

    “R”,

    I see that Comrade Obama has returned to his USSR roots today. Putin and Obama should feel like kindred spirits, hey? Sharing that wealth, while enriching themselves at the public trough.

    And speaking of Jew hating for the Curator, I noticed your prophet has a 6% approval rating amongst the Israeli Jooos. Of course, I always did feel like the Israeli Jews quite a bit brighter on the bullshit meter than their American kin.

    Congratulations…

  25. Elric and Tex,

    Why do you two continue to slander the Jewish people? Don’t you like them? Are you friends with James von Brunn?

    You guys don’t like America very much do you?

  26. Can I be part of the conservative Republican Party if I start hating Jewish people too? Do I have to start calling them “jooos” now as well?

  27. Boy Curator, your even more lame than I thought; that, or woefully confused. Seems to be that only person on here whose into Jew baiting and hating is you.

    Have you forgotten already that me, the mouthy Evangelical Christian, are the Israeli Jews best friends and your worst nightmare?

    You know, to usher in the tribulation and all… 😉

    Now I know you and Obama wish Israel would go away to help Father Satan’s mission, but try and remember that isn’t going to happen again – even when Obama sells out Israel. 😮

  28. Curator, your not making sense. Elric might be a sociopath, but why do you blame him for hating jews?

    Many people of late have been mocking Rev. Wright’s antisemitic rant in which he bizarrely claimed “Jooos are keeping Obama from communicating with his old spiritual adviser. Surely, you’ve seen this.

  29. A vein of antisemitism runs deep on the left. It is a main course in black politics and his getting real bad in overall far left politics. I was walking in Ann Arbor the other day where a bunch of white hippies were having a pro-Palestinian rally. Ridiculously dressed in green, the color of a suicide bomber/martyr, they were yelling out all kinds of anti-Jewish crap.

    It’s such a paradox how the left has embraced Islamic radicalism and, often times, antisemitism.

  30. A little while ago, the Senate voted to pass HR 2918, the Legislative Branch Appropriations Act. This $3 billion bill contains, among many other things, provisions for GAO audits on certain agencies.

    Seizing on a chance to take quick action to bring Audit the Fed up for a vote, and with the GAO provisions in mind, Senator DeMint attached the full text of S 604, the Senate version of Ron Paul’s Audit the Fed bill, to HR 2918 as Senate Amendment 1367 before it was considered for final passage.

    However, Senate Democrats refused to even allow a vote on the amendment! That’s right. The internationalist, Fed-loving elite in the Senate used a parliamentary tactic to shut down DeMint’s amendment.

    After Senator DeMint brought Audit the Fed to the floor, Senator Ben Nelson of Nebraska raised a “point of order” to prevent a vote, claiming that the amendment violated Senate Rule 16 by “legislating” on an appropriations bill. The Senate president agreed, and the amendment was shot down.

    Senator DeMint did not back down, though, and directly challenged Senate leadership by pointing out the other GAO audits contained in the bill. As Senator DeMint listed them off, the Senate president was forced to agree with Senator DeMint that each one he described, all of which would be left in for final passage, also violated Senate Rule 16.

    Which tells us at least one thing: the problem wasn’t with “legislating” on the bill or violating Senate Rules (which is commonly done). Shooting down the amendment was about preventing a thorough audit of the Federal Reserve for the first time in its history!

    John Tate
    Campaign for Liberty

  31. Concerning Elric and “joos”, while I would never label Elric a Jew-hater I do find it odd that he targets the left for this distinction. The last time I looked, most Jews leaned left. Has that changed?

  32. Listen you perpetual posting weirdo. You sit on your ass all day, refuse to mow the lawn, refuse to love your wife (if you have one), refuse to brush your teeth (if you still have them), and post ad fucking nauseam, creating a situation where Rutherford dodges most of what you say because he simply takes part in the normal daily affairs of a grown man.

    Even if your wife is stationed somewhere (Air force people always marry other Air force people), your ass must be so fat from sitting down and being so sedentary.

    You create a situation where you have to be dodged due to the plain fact that there are only 24 hours in a day. You do a disservice to our cause.

    I googled your name and have seen what you have done on other blogs. Thousands of posts. Sometimes hundreds in a day. Motherfucker, you are sick.

    Now lets get down to business. You’re the dodger on Iran. I will ask you again. AGAIN. Somehow dig deep in the shadows of your sad, stale lair and answer me using your own prose.

    1. Exactly what should have Obama done and said? (Please take in consideration what he did say on this matter)

    2. How would this have this changed our national security?

    Be specific.

    Ok, I give you one thing. You have came up with one specific.

    Obama should have met with Iranian demonstrators.

    Are you kidding me, jack ass? Should he have climbed up the Tehran roofs at night and yelled Ali Akbar!!!!!

    Can you answer this without a link to your “weasel zipper” site? You come up with that name by the way?

    I’m not soft on Iran. I’m for major sanctions. But I’m also a realist. I’ve explained all of this numerous times.

  33. Makes more sense why thuggy doesnt want to take them on

    Elric, what are you smoking? He took them on, shot one of them right between the eyes. Selective amnesia on your part?

  34. You do a disservice to our cause.

    Elric, Elric, Elric, I can summarize Rabbit’s excellent comment (very cathartic for me DR … thank you) in the following way:

    Don’t piss in your own backyard.
    If you haven’t noticed, you enjoy here the pretty consistent support of both Rabbit and Tex and then you tempt fate by taking a piss at Rabbit. Bad move Sir, very bad move. And I might add that Rabbit’s response is relatively restrained. Were you to take the same tack with Tex, I would not be responsible for the grave psychological damage that Tex would do unto you. Hell hath no fury like a Tex scorned (a lesson I’ve learned here and even more so in the Chamber (which perhaps should be renamed the torture chamber 🙂 )).

    In any case, I digress. Elric take pleasure in the fact that you are among almost universal opposition to my views in this comments section and don’t piss your friends off. It’s just a bad strategy dude.

  35. “Concerning Elric and “joos”, while I would never label Elric a Jew-hater I do find it odd that he targets the left for this distinction. The last time I looked, most Jews leaned left. Has that changed?”

    Most American Jews do lean left, most of the antisemitism comes from the left. Yes its odd but thats how it is.

    “Elric, what are you smoking? He took them on, shot one of them right between the eyes. Selective amnesia on your part?”

    Actually that was the SEALS that did that, not Thuggy. He gave the order after a few days consulting his lawyers. Now if he was actually a leader that cared, he would be sinking their ships and bombing their bases.

  36. “Are you kidding me, jack ass? Should he have climbed up the Tehran roofs at night and yelled Ali Akbar!!!!!”

    Actually thats “Allahu Akbar” dumbass

  37. I am sorry. I just read what I wrote and I’m cringing a little bit.

    So, seriously, my rant was overboard and I apologize.

    The only thing I want to point out is that you have constantly lumped me in with the “soft on Iran crowd” yet have dodged my question every time I’ve asked it, word for word.

    But, you have never been personal. (You do borderline go after “R” personally)

  38. Apology accepted DR

    As I said before, Obama should green light Israel’s attack on Iran, which is coming very soon. He should have been out of the gate sticking up for the ones protesting this obviously rigged elections. He could of went to the American Iranian crowd to show support for them and say that America sides with freedom. Should in the meantime push for stronger sanctions instead of pushing for no stronger sanctions. By doing what he has done, he has given legitimacy for the mullahs to do what they do. Right now, the mullahs know full well we have a stooge in the White House and they have absolutely nothing to fear from Thuggy.

  39. Fair enough.

    I argue that Iran has done a good job of losing legitimacy on their own. And, Biden did remark that we wouldn’t stop Israel from defending itself.

    As for Obama taking up the cause of the people, that is a tricky one. At first, the people were fighting for a an anti-Israel zealot who was one of big dogs in the Islamic Revolution to begin with.

    As for “green lighting” an attack on Iran, do you understand the ramifications of that?

    Yes, sadly, if Obama keeps playing a weak hand with Iran, it will have to happen. But do you understand what that will do to oil prices? Do you understand the destabilization that will occur?

    An Israeli-Persian war will be a nightmare for us on many different levels. This isn’t a fantasy role playing game.

    Oil will sky rocket. My own home town will be riddled with Hezbollah attacks. The Persian Gulf log jammed with burning oil tankers. Iraq could go down the road of civil war.

    You do know a precision strike won’t do the job?

  40. Elric is the Rush Limbaugh of the blogosphere. Seems that other conservatives like DR grovel and apologise to him when they confront him on his bullshit.

  41. “As for “green lighting” an attack on Iran, do you understand the ramifications of that?”

    I see more ramifications if they dont. Israel doesnt have a choice.

    And as for Biden, well he’s an idiot but once awhile he does say things that are true like Obama being tested. Obama is on record before telling Israel not to attack Iran and well defending itself means once they are attacked. Well with one nuke, Israel is done.

    “I argue that Iran has done a good job of losing legitimacy on their own.”

    Really? The UN is more worried about Honduras than Iran. So is Obama.

    “You do know a precision strike won’t do the job?”

    I have faith that Israel will do the job right. Sadly without US support. Even more sad, they may get more help from the Sauds than the US.

  42. Hey “R”,

    Did you win a pass to the Michael Jackson pagan ritual to be celebrated today?

    Now don’t get me wrong “R”. You and yours truly being of the same age remember when the King of Pop was flying high – the definite Elvis of our time.

    But after 10 days of fawning adulation, I am again reminded of why our society in such trouble.

    The only positive on the Michael Jackson wingding has been that it has gotten “The Prophet Obama” off of my TV set. I can almost always find good in something. 😈

  43. Curator,

    Elric is the Rush Limbaugh of the blogosphere. Seems that other conservatives like DR grovel and apologise to him when they confront him on his bullshit.

    Hey, not to be naive or anything. But what exactly is that avatar you use supposed to represent? It looks like a cross between FSU’s mascot, and a guy straining with corn cob in the colon.

  44. “Did you win a pass to the Michael Jackson pagan ritual to be celebrated today?” -Tex

    that made me laugh out loud.

    I’m off to play 18 holes. Which means I will be swinging a golf club 120 times.

  45. Rabbit,

    The problem is that Elric does not deal in reality, but only ideology. He does not care of the ramification cause he does not look that far ahead. Obama is playing not a weak hand but a calculating hand with Iran. Elric is a hardliner who can only see what is in front of him.

    For Obama to give lectures on democracy and loud criticisms against tyranny were the last thing the Iranian people needed. It would have given the hardliners in Iran a reason to paint the reformist Mousavi as a stooge of the West.

    Asked by CNN whether Washington had given Israel approval to strike Iran’s nuclear facilities, Obama answered: “Absolutely not.”

    I don’t think an “Israeli-Persian war” is very likely. Who would come to Irans aid? Most Arab Sunni countries want the Shi’a Crescent dominance in the area stunted.

  46. “Obama is playing not a weak hand but a calculating hand with Iran.”

    Of course Curator doesnt elaborate

    “It would have given the hardliners in Iran a reason to paint the reformist Mousavi as a stooge of the West.”

    And yet they did anyway

    “I don’t think an “Israeli-Persian war” is very likely.”

    Israel has no choice

  47. ” I don’t think an “Israeli-Persian war” is very likely. Who would come to Irans aid? Most Arab Sunni countries want the Shi’a Crescent dominance in the area stunted.”

    Wow. Wake up, man. Israel CAN NOT allow Iran to get a nuke. The minute Israel deems all other solutions exhausted, there will be war. And Sunni/Arab resentment of Iran only makes that much more feasible.

    Your naivety is exactly what is dragging the middle east on a road to full scale war.

  48. DR I’m confused in comment 66 you seem to have the correct outlook but then in 78 you seem to alter a bit.
    Israel is extremely unwise to strike for so many reasons. The best solution for a nuclear Iran is to allow it and step back and watch the regional arms race. Whether the Saudis,Jordanians and others can live in a MAD world with Iran and vice versa may be a scary thought but it’s the best we got.

  49. What is a “Israeli-Persian war”, compared to a “Israeli-Iranian war”?

    This is the context I was commenting on. Who would come to Irans aid? Would Arab Sunni’s or Northern Kurd’s?

    “And Sunni/Arab resentment of Iran only makes that much more feasible.”

    Are you saying Sunni/Arab would participate in a “Israeli-Persian war”?

    If so, on who’s side?

  50. “The best solution for a nuclear Iran is to allow it and step back and watch the regional arms race.”

    Dont you mean “The Final Solution” for Israel? I doubt Israel will go along with your plan.

  51. “And, Biden did remark that we wouldn’t stop Israel from defending itself.”

    Obama is now backtracking on his VP’s statement.

    And remember, Obama picked this guy to bolster his foreign policy creds.

  52. Red this is hardly backtracking.

    State Department spokesman Ian Kelly repeated Biden’s point that Washington considered Israel a “sovereign country” with a right to make its own military decisions.

    “We’re not going to dictate its [Iran’s] actions,” Kelly added.

    Kelly also pointed out that President Obama is not dropping its policy to engage diplomatically with Iran.

  53. Dont you mean “The Final Solution” for Israel? I doubt Israel will go along with your plan.
    No. Seeing as the region has had a nuclear power in the ‘hood and dealt with it a couple of additional players wouldn’t be the end of the world,literally. I accept people may find this crazy but MAD would work pretty well there. The Israelis face annihilation as a people and in return the turning of Mecca into dust can’t be in the interests of the Muslim world.
    Curator you bracketed the wrong nation. It’s [Israel] not [Iran]. The USA has definite power over the Israeli government decisions and a USA that doesn’t want a strike on Iran would and will act accordingly.
    As for engaging Iran diplomatically Ahmadinejad has the upper hand.

  54. Curator,

    What you got against Israel? Is it the God’s chosen people stuff, or just faux sympathy for the Religion of Pieces routine to mask the Blame America Libbiedom your famous at dropping here at Mr. Lawson’s blog?

    So far, your commentary on this entire thread has been a non sequitur. Baseless charges, rudderless commentary, a little bit of loathing the religious Jew thrown in. You’re not even playing a good devil’s advocate today, which is weak even for you. Get that cob out of the ass and you’ll feel better Chief. 👿

    I guess you can’t add the Obama + Biden equation pertaining to Israel just tallied to zero? Or in the case of this inane pair, the null set?

  55. It won’t be long before the level of discourse here deteriorates to “I know you are, but what am I?”

  56. “No. Seeing as the region has had a nuclear power in the ‘hood and dealt with it a couple of additional players wouldn’t be the end of the world,literally.”

    I guess you havent heard the rhetoric coming out of Iran. Plus the fact they could hand it off to al-Qaeda or some other jihadists group so they have an appearance of innocence. Sorry but nutjobs with nukes is suicide and sadly the only country that would pay that price is Israel. But pretty much the whole world hates Israel including this administration so who cares, right?

  57. “The USA has definite power over the Israeli government decisions and a USA that doesn’t want a strike on Iran would and will act accordingly.”

    LOL Yeah right. Maybe with Olmert but not with Bibi. If it comes between Israel’s survival or listening to jew hating thuggy, money is on that they will pick survival.

    NEVER AGAIN!


  58. What you got against Israel? Is it the God’s chosen people stuff, or just faux sympathy for the Religion of Pieces routine to mask the Blame America Libbiedom your famous at dropping here at Mr. Lawson’s blog?

    So far, your commentary on this entire thread has been a non sequitur. Baseless charges, rudderless commentary, a little bit of loathing the religious Jew thrown in. You’re not even playing a good devil’s advocate today, which is weak even for you. Get that cob out of the ass and you’ll feel better Chief.

    Tex,

    You don’t know!!!

    Just today I became a conservative Republican so now I can spout the “baseless charges, rudderless commentary and loathing” just like you guys. I didn’t know hate would feel this way.

    Do I get my copy of the magic negro CD now?

    Am I a “real” American now?

  59. Curator,

    You’d never make it as a conservative – don’t care about the Republican as the label rendered meaningless some years back. They’ve become equally worthless with Democrats.

    First, you’d have to lose the false piety you strut around here, then you’d have to grab a set of brass ones. After that, you would have to begin to like America and become cognizant that secular Europe is an abject failure – not the model you and your ilk wish to emulate.

    I can’t answer about the magic negro CD, because being a non-election year, you white boys from the Dimocratic party have pulled anchor and left the slaves in the ghetto until next election cycle, where you once again dock and grovel for the “minority” vote with typical moral platitudes. Somewhere around November after next, you’ll once again lift anchor and set sail for Ivy League, Hollywood and academia – leaving the brothas to grovel for another two years.

    Personally, I’m of the opinion you are probably French.

  60. “Just today I became a conservative Republican so now I can spout the “baseless charges, rudderless commentary and loathing” just like you guys. I didn’t know hate would feel this way.”

    My God, the hypocrisy is overwhelming. Sorry buddy but libs pretty much have the monopoly on that. The only place you will fit in being a Republican is the Juan McVain staff team.

  61. She met Barack Obama when they were among very few African Americans at their law firm, Sidley Austin, (she has sometimes said only two, although others have pointed out there were others in different departments)[22] and she was assigned to mentor him while he was a summer associate.[23] Their relationship started with a business lunch and then a community organization meeting where he first impressed her.[24

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Obama

    I guess thuggy should have googled where he met his wife first. LOL

  62. because being a non-election year, you white boys from the Dimocratic party have pulled anchor and left the slaves in the ghetto until next election cycle, where you once again dock and grovel for the “minority” vote with typical moral platitudes. Somewhere around November after next, you’ll once again lift anchor and set sail for Ivy League, Hollywood and academia – leaving the brothas to grovel for another two years.

    That is awesome.

  63. Elric Bibi,no bibi it doesn’t matter. There isn’t any real way Israel exists without US support. High end trade and revenue are controlled by DC. There are two recent scenarios where Israel has been forced to back out of quality defense industry contracts due to the US nodding no. The US has pull real and imagined in Israel actions.
    I really want to know how Israel is supposed to attack Iran. Who will allow the violation of airspace ? If they go over the Gulf they’re dead. Iran isn’t Iraq.

  64. “There isn’t any real way Israel exists without US support.”

    Well guess what? Thuggy doesnt support Israel’s existence so it really doesnt matter, does it?

    “I really want to know how Israel is supposed to attack Iran.”

    So does Iran

    “Who will allow the violation of airspace ?”

    Rumor right now is the Sauds. Believable because they dont want the shi’ites with a nuke. Its a rumor so who knows but a believable one. They know Iran is more a threat to them than Israel.

    “If they go over the Gulf they’re dead.”

    They are dead if they dont do anything.

    So what would you do? Would you trust thuggy with your existence if you were Israel? Honestly?

  65. Alfie,

    1. An unconfirmed source states that the Saudi’s will turn a “blind eye” to Israeli fighters in their air space. Obviously, this is to be taken with a grain of salt, but I would put my money they would pretend that it wasn’t happening.

    2. While America has a huge say in Israeli affairs, we are not the end all be all. We are not in some kind of unified tandem. Hence, the existence of an Israeli espionage program that infiltrates America. Why do you think there is still settlements being built right now? Do you think Zionism is in American interests? Zionism is often a pain in our ass.

    3. I am in no way contradicting myself. On the one had, I am well aware of the horrible ramifications of an Israeli -Persian War. I also realize that because the last time the Jewish people were threatened with wholesale extermination it became a reality. The Jews have vowed to never let it happen again. They are being threatened with extinction again by people actively trying to put together the very weaponry to make it a reality.

    Just imagine if a nuclear Iran was going through another revolution. If you lived in Tel Aviv, would you bet your entire civilization that, in some sick, last ditch effort, Iran would not launch nukes?

    Israel CAN NOT allow Iran to have nukes.

    Your lack of understanding this is a great danger. This lackadaisical approach or acceptance of a nuclear Iran will be devastating. The very fact that I feel the war would be so negative for the world is the very reason Iran must be stopped.

    Elric wants war now. I say we still have time. Negotiations will not work. Even most of those Iranians we have seen rebelling are nationalistic as all hell. The population wants nuclear weapons. The insane leadership may just be crazy enough to use them.

    Strangle Iran. Blockade Iran, if need be. The middle class is drowning. Strangle Iran!!! Cripple them, and maybe they will crack. Time is ticking away.

  66. The Israelis possess electronic warfare that will zap the shit out Iran. While it won’t be a walk in the park, Israel could secure Iranian airspace in a week, tops.

  67. Alfie,

    One more thing. It absolutely baffles me that you are kosher with a nuclear arms race in the Middle East. Did I read that right? The modern “cradle” of civilization that has made the suicide bomber fricking iconic. The culture that produced suicidal killers that flew packed airplanes into the WTC?

    Martyr this. Martyr that. Green Green Green.

    Are you kidding me?

    There is no deterrence effect.

  68. “Elric wants war now. I say we still have time. Negotiations will not work.”

    Isnt that a contradiction? We have time but negotiations will not work? Time for what? For them to finish a nuke?

    And for the record. I dont want war. I know that there is no alternative but war. So I rather have it now then wait til after Iran gets a nuke.

  69. Sanctions! Hard core sanctions! Threats and Sanctions. Why do you think the middle class flipped it’s lid two weeks ago?. That was just from the last decade of half ass sanctions. Now, I’m well aware that we will never be able truly squeeze them off, thanks to other belligerent states, but that’s when the ultimatum comes in. Obama needs to threat that we will back an Israeli attack. Who knows? They could pull a Libya and come clean.

  70. DR: I agree that sanctions are the best way for us to go with Iran. But I disagree that we need to give the threat that we will back Israel. (Unless by “back” you meant something like “cheer them on,” rather than something like “have their back,” which kind of suggests an alliance) No need to give the mullahs actual proof to their “the US is meddling again” rhetoric.

    I think we need to take a “hey whatever, that’s between Iran and Israel” attitude. Israel seems to have this game of trashing people’s nuclear ambitions down pretty well.

    Plus, as long as we are going to continue to give them all kinds of $$$$, we may as well let them earn it by taking care of the dirty work.

  71. “Sanctions! Hard core sanctions!”

    Well we know how well sanctions have worked in the past.

    “That was just from the last decade of half ass sanctions.”

    Wow 10 years. Im sure Israel can wait around another 10 years.

    “Obama needs to threat that we will back an Israeli attack.”

    Your kidding, right? You have a better chance of Bin Laden converting to Judaism.

  72. Red Pill,

    1. I mean “cheer them on”…maybe some logistical support. Israel must fight this war, we can’t afford it.

    2. It’s not a “hey, whatever” situation.

    A. If Iran gets nukes, it’s because our foreign policy failed.
    B. If Iran gets nukes or even if it becomes apparent that we can’t stop them in the near future this will have massive effects on you and me. Can you imagine the price of gas? Can you imagine the effects on the Shiite/Sunni tensions in Iraq?
    C. If I’m wrong, and Israel does not go to war over this, can you imagine a nuclear arms race in the middle east?

    This clearly isn’t some South American border dispute. This is big shit, dude. It will literally effect our lives in very tangible ways.

    We must somehow strong arm Iran in dropping their ambitions or we’re screwed.

    By the way, I got my cholesterol checked Monday.

  73. “No need to give the mullahs actual proof to their “the US is meddling again” rhetoric.”

    Who cares? They lie anyway.

    “Israel seems to have this game of trashing people’s nuclear ambitions down pretty well.”

    Picture comes clearer and clearer

    “Plus, as long as we are going to continue to give them all kinds of $$$$, we may as well let them earn it by taking care of the dirty work.”

    Coming crystal clear. It explains a lot now.

  74. Obama’s “tone-reset button-I’m the cool, popular teacher” vibe will ultimately lead to a terrible war in the Middle East. I agree, Elric.

    Very tough sanctions backed up with an Israeli green light set to be turned on at a certain date could avoid war and eradicate a nuclear armed Iran. It’s the best shot we got.

    It’s better then your plan. Which is essentially ceding failure. War in the Gulf.

  75. “It’s better then your plan. Which is essentially ceding failure. War in the Gulf.”

    You concur it will fail but its still better than my plan????

    You see your plan depends on Obama which is foolish. Obama already said no more sanctions and you know full well he wont threatened even a little with force. So what are you waiting for? A plan that you already admit will lead to war anyway. The only difference is I rather do it now instead of waiting for Iran to actually get a nuke. No one can say for sure how far they are but we know they are building one.

  76. I’m pretending I’m President Rabbit. What’s so wrong with that?

    But yeah, Obama might change his mind. He did on taxing my health care benefits!

  77. “I’m pretending I’m President Rabbit. What’s so wrong with that?”

    Nothing. We would be in much better shape than der thuggy

    “But yeah, Obama might change his mind. He did on taxing my health care benefits!”

    True but he never changes his mind for America’s benefit. He is an evil man so I never ever expect him to do the right thing. In that regard he hasnt disappointed me.

  78. Trust me, he is evil. What he is doing to this country is evil. I love this quote by CS Lewis

    “Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good
    of its victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live
    under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies.
    The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may
    at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good
    will torment us without end for they do so with the approval
    of their own conscience.”

    Sums up thuggy and his goons

  79. Hmmmm media matters? Got another source?

    And again dodging. But Gore does sound like a fascist propagandist here. Using fear to sell his scam so he can rake in the profits. Same Al Gore who wont actually debate the issue. I wonder how much of a carbon footprint Gore leaves jetting around the world selling his scam? You know Dodger?

  80. Everyone please brace yourselves. What I am about to say may cause your eyes to melt and your brain to explode:

    On one thing, I do agree with Elric.

    Alfie’s assessment that mutually assured destruction (MAD) would work in the Middle East the way it has worked in US-USSR relations is faulty by a long shot. The reason MAD worked for over 60 years is that at its core, both Russia and US value survival over ideology. They are both ultimately, very practical countries.

    The same cannot be said for some of the countries in the Middle East where religious fanaticism reigns supreme. It’s been stated before above but I’ll restate it. Martyrdom is popular among some of these folks. They’re not afraid to die and don’t care how many they take with them.

    Now just so there is no confusion, I have not converted to the anti-Muslim stance of Elric. But I’m also no fool. Radical Islam is something to be concerned about. I simply believe that the vast majority of Muslims are not radical. They are law abiding people who just want to live in peace. However I’m not willing to bet the farm that these law-abiding Muslims are the ones running the Iranian government.

    The last thing we want is a nutjob regime with nukes going head to head with a (justifiably) paranoid regime with nukes. That’s a recipe for disaster.

  81. “R”,

    I thought the “evil” emoticon looked like a teletubby – give me the Satan head back.

    ————————————-

    Alfie,

    That is awesome.

    😆 Ah, I was just being a smart ass to a smart ass. No racial incitement intended – unless it curled Rutherford’s hair. I like to curl the big “R”‘s hair just for the humor it generally invokes.

    Sometime back “R” caught on to me being the internet’s biggest blowhard. I can’t even hardly get a rise out of him anymore, unless I send him some more porn.

  82. Everyone please brace yourselves. What I am about to say may cause your eyes to melt and your brain to explode (and your balls to drop):

    I agree with Rutherford – the US/USSR analogy concerning WMD doesn’t hold in the Middle East. No matter how evil the USSR was, and it surely was, they weren’t crazy like the Mad Mullahs. The only virgins the former KGB ever saw were at the whorehouse, and they weren’t eternal.

  83. Good job. Now the next step you need to come to grips with is that Obama is going to do nothing to stop them from getting nukes and is undermining Israel’s desire to do so.

  84. Elric, the quote from CS Lewis is a dumb-ass one. Robber barons don’t have a conscience and to that extent are equally undeterred in their “evil” as those whose conscience tells them they are doing the right thing.

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Your insistence that Obama and those who support him are evil puts you in the category of a right wing nutjob. Do we need to worry about you shooting up some museum in the near future? Every time you say the President wants to destroy his own country, you remove all credibility from your arguments. It makes it hard for me to believe you want to be taken seriously.

  85. I can’t even hardly get a rise out of him anymore, unless I send him some more porn.

    “Some more” you say? Damn, the first set must’ve gotten lost in my spam folder! 🙂

  86. One question to my round table of foreign affairs experts:

    Do you really think if Obama gives Israel the “green light” to bomb the crap out of Iran that any of us will ever know about it? How do you know that he hasn’t already told Bebe, “just be cool man. The minute you’ve got documented proof that they’re about to make a bomb, do what you have to do.”

    I assure you, any “support” we give to proactive military action on the part of Israel will be done under the table and away from international scrutiny.

  87. “Do we need to worry about you shooting up some museum in the near future?”

    He was a left winger

    “Every time you say the President wants to destroy his own country, you remove all credibility from your arguments.”

    Does it? How so?

    Again let me ask. Is he evil or that stupid?

    “Do you really think if Obama gives Israel the “green light” to bomb the crap out of Iran that any of us will ever know about it? How do you know that he hasn’t already told Bebe, “just be cool man. The minute you’ve got documented proof that they’re about to make a bomb, do what you have to do.””

    LOL Because I know what he is. He has already made it obvious who he sides with. He learned his hatred of Israel from Rev Wright and his “church”

    “I assure you, any “support” we give to proactive military action on the part of Israel will be done under the table and away from international scrutiny.”

    A assure you thuggy will do everything in his power to undermine Israel.

  88. “R”,

    While I can’t prove it, I agree with Elric on this one. You don’t sit in the pews of an avowed Jew hater like Wright and have some love for Israel. Like I said previously, approval gets an approval rating of 6% from the smartest people (Israeli Jews) on earth. They certainly don’t agree with your possible assessment. Loud and clear support of Israel’s policies is required here and Obama isn’t providing it.

    Obama will sell out Israel at some time – if not now, when the subject of Jerusalem comes into the debate. And that is coming soon I predict.

  89. Elric, regarding Muslim homophobia, surely you’re not saying Islam has a monopoly on religion-based homophobia? Don’t you remember that according to Jerry Falwell, it was the gays and lesbians who pissed God off so we’d get planes flying into skyscrapers?

  90. Elric, when you read “right wing nutjob” you focused on the wrong words. The focus was on nutjob. The museum shooter was a nutjob. I don’t care about his politics, I care about his irrational extremism. (By the way, I don’t buy that he was “left wing” either. He hated just about everybody for some reason or another.)

  91. DR: ” It’s not a “hey, whatever” situation.”

    Obviously “hey whatever” was making light of an insanely serious issue, but when the Israeli airstrikes on Iran’s nuclear weapons capabilities start, I think the 2nd part of my statement is the best posture for us to take.

    Israel bombing Iran will rally a lot of Iranians. Us helping out in any way will rally the rest of them.

    (Elric: Sure they will blame us anyways. But blame means nothing if everyone knows it’s BS. On the other hand, it means everything if everyone knows it isn’t.)

    “We must somehow strong arm Iran in dropping their ambitions or we’re screwed”

    If Iran continues on its present course—and we have to work from the assumption that it will for now—then this is going to happen eventually. 10 years of sanctions have hurt, but the belief that Bush was going to attack only got their dander up. Neither have stopped their program from progressing. At best they slowed it down.

    The only way this isn’t going to happen is if the Iranian people decide they don’t want it to happen, and do something about it before it gets to that point. And I don’t think threatening them with an ass-beating is going to do it.

    This is going to happen anyway. Iran is going to do their thing, and when Israel decides it has had enough, it is going to take care of business. Iran won’t like it, but what is it really going to do in the conventional sense? It can’t get at Israel from the ground, and proxies are only good for so much.

    There is a reason we give Israel money and weapons. As long as that policy continues, I say let them earn both for a change. They are going to do what they want militarily, anyway. They always have.

    “By the way, I got my cholesterol checked Monday.”

    Glad to hear it. Hopefully you’ll be saying the same when you get the results. But if you don’t, at least you’ll know, and can make informed decisions.

  92. 1. Iran Israel was,you don’t get a week.
    2. MAD always works. There isn’t a Muslim on the planet that would accept the eternal responsibility of turning Mecca & Medina to glass.
    3. Sanctions don’t work,are counterproductive and that’s the truth.
    4. Saudis turning a blind eye ? That’s got civil war written all over it.

  93. “Elric, regarding Muslim homophobia, surely you’re not saying Islam has a monopoly on religion-based homophobia? Don’t you remember that according to Jerry Falwell, it was the gays and lesbians who pissed God off so we’d get planes flying into skyscrapers?”

    So thats the same as muslims being executed under sharia law?

    “Elric, when you read “right wing nutjob” you focused on the wrong words. The focus was on nutjob. The museum shooter was a nutjob. I don’t care about his politics, I care about his irrational extremism. (By the way, I don’t buy that he was “left wing” either. He hated just about everybody for some reason or another.)”

    Then dont mention right wing

  94. 1. Iran Israel was,you don’t get a week.

    No one really knows how long it will take.

    2. MAD always works. There isn’t a Muslim on the planet that would accept the eternal responsibility of turning Mecca & Medina to glass.

    How convenient for you to say that that. Its not your country thats under threat of nuclear annihilation.

    3. Sanctions don’t work,are counterproductive and that’s the truth.

    Thats right.

    4. Saudis turning a blind eye ? That’s got civil war written all over it.

    Who knows? Saudi is Sunni so would al-qaeda be pissed over a bombed Iran? Dont know.

    So what would you do if you were Israel?

  95. MANILA, Philippines – Four explosions rocked Mindanao within a 12-hour period starting Monday evening, leaving at least six people killed and 56 others wounded, prompting the police force in the south to go on the highest alert.

    The explosions came after an improvised bomb went off outside a church in Cotabato City on Sunday, leaving five people killed and at least 35 others wounded.

    The deadliest of the four explosions occurred at 7:45 a.m. Tuesday near the Mount Carmel Church in Jolo town, Sulu province in the southwest, where six people were killed and 40 others were wounded, said Superintendent Jose Bayani Gucela, spokesman of the Directorate for Integrated Police Operations in Western Mindanao.

    Abu Sayyaf Muslim militants are known to operate on Jolo,where the al Qaeda-linked group has been holding hostage an Italian Red Cross worker since January.

    Hmmm attacking churches, how islamic

  96. “MAD always works.”

    Well, lets use some inductive reasoning on that one. Lets go back throughout all of time and test this hypothesis out.

    Oh crap. We can only go back to 1950.

    Cold War. Check.

    Pakistan vs. India. Uh….I’ll give it a check, although they have had a war as nuclear powers.

    And…………….

    Not much evidence for sweeping generalizations about MAD.

  97. “Most people think these riots are caused by exclusion, unemployment and poverty…?”

    “I have a very hard time seeing that connection. There are many unemployed but a vanishing minority that goes out throwing stones. I don’t know how much the Intifada and the uprising in Gaza inspires the stone throwers. Unfortunately, nobody’s done any research on the subject.”

    “Why?”

    “Many think the subject is too sensitive to research. In Sweden, many people show a immense tolerance toward the intolerance of the immigrants, but no tolerance at all for native Swedish intolerance. One can be tolerated, not the other. It is strange.”

    “How can the problems be solved?”

    “The more immigrants that come to Malmö, the larger the market for various ethnic products and extreme interpretations of Islam. It becomes ever easier to live as back home even if you live in Sweden.

    “Segregation must be broken. The only way to do so is to stop the further inflow of immigrants to Malmö. But nobody in our political system supports that. What we see now is just the beginning. It will become worse.”

    http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2009/07/overtime-in-rosengard.html#readfurther

    Isnt multiculturalism wonderful Dodger?

  98. Elric, as with most arguments, you’re a fan of the broadbrush. Believing in multi-culturalism does not mean embracing violent cultures.

    To carry your logic a step further, it’s like saying because Iran and North Korea give us problems, we won’t engage in diplomacy with anyone. In other words, because diplomacy doesn’t work well with certain countries, diplomacy is at fault and we should just toss it in all cases.

    To be socially evolved is to be multi-cultural. The alternative is ignorant nationalism.

  99. “Elric, as with most arguments, you’re a fan of the broadbrush. Believing in multi-culturalism does not mean embracing violent cultures.”

    Well guess what? Thats what ends up happening as in the UK or as I just pointed out, in Sweden.

    “To carry your logic a step further, it’s like saying because Iran and North Korea give us problems, we won’t engage in diplomacy with anyone.”

    As usual your logic is faulty

    “To be socially evolved is to be multi-cultural. The alternative is ignorant nationalism.”

    Really? Just wait until Eurabia falls do to multiculturalism. First will be the UK. Its being Balkanized and not just in the Balkans. I know its not PC to say so but thats just how it is.

    Even the Chinese are having an islamic problem, thats just how bad it is. Also funny you didnt mention the church bombings in the PI. Another nation paying the price for multiculturalism.

  100. “R”,

    While you slumber and blubber on about the need for diversity (throw United out the window, I guess), you didn’t happen to notice that something that is beyond the opinion and easily measured, and in fact was the basic tenet of Obama’s successful campaigning, is proving an abject failure?

    Namely, the economy?

    What exactly have we received for our bill of the quadrupling of the national deficit recently? I can appreciate the ability to multitask (your word, not mine), but I thought the premise of multitasking was to succeed at more than one project at once? Where has Barry succeeded?

    It would appear that your definition of multitasking would better be defined as baffling them with bullshit. This reminds me very much, and I am sure you witnessed this on many occasions in your corporate life, of the I.T. department, upon failing in its initial task, simply starts another project to prevent answering “where’s the beef”?

    Moreover, it would appear that Obama’s first priority (jobs) is well on its way to the conclusion of sound defeat. And now, after an incredibly poor initial showing, Obama’s economic giants appear to think if we just do some more of the same (deficit spending,stimulus, infrastructure), everything will be okay.

    You want to enlighten me again about Barry’s brilliance and the strength of this new regime? Six months should have been enough time to at least get some measure of confidence.

    You feeling real confident in the man of Hope & Change about now? Or can you honestly answer that without becoming defensive?

  101. “You want to enlighten me again about Barry’s brilliance and the strength of this new regime? Six months should have been enough time to at least get some measure of confidence.”

    Tex, the moron cant even remember where he met his wife. Also thuggy is at a -5. People are already wising up to what they elected. Just wait til the economy really takes a hit. Already talk about another pork bill. God I wish I had a reset button.

    “You feeling real confident in the man of Hope & Change about now? Or can you honestly answer that without becoming defensive?”

    Can he even answer period?

  102. The Quran and Hadith: Which is More Authentic?

    In debates on Islam, deceptive modern Muslim intellectuals are quick to reject those hadiths that show Islam in a bad light. Little do the know that the authenticity of the hadith, given its remarkably objective and scientific method of collection, would stand higher than the Quran, whose codification was shabby at best…

    http://www.islam-watch.org/iw-new/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=70:quran-hadith-which-is-more-authentic&catid=68:mumin&Itemid=58

  103. The Congressional Budget Office is saying that if Obama’s policies are continued the 41% of the GDP at the end of ’08 will rise to 87% by 2020. The year 2080? 716%.

    The Economist, which earnestly jumped on the Obama bandwagon, pointed out something that rings very true with me. Obama has refused to put off unpleasant decisions. He feels the need (unfortunately) to change it all. Sadlyhe’s plain and simply not being honest with American people about cost.

    Folks, we are being lied to.

    As the Economist points out, “Instead of straight talk, we are being offer happy talk”.
    Obama pretends that climate-change bill that the House passed will create “millions of new green jobs.” A footnote to the bill was that it would help the planet. It is funny how the debate itself is being obscured by bald face lies. A million green jobs! LOL. Epic! We will lose jobs, and anyone even remotely with an IQ over 80 knows this. It’s common sense. To quote the Economist, Obama’s speech on the climate change bill was “pure drivel”.

    Do you guys even know that a provision was added on to the bill forcing the president to impose tariffs on nations who release a lot greenhouse stink? Do you understand the ramifications of this kind of stuff?
    The Economist points out that the 175 buck screw you we are all supposed to get is complete garbage. 2020 is when the bill bites. And it doesn’t include all the economic growth that is being pissed away. 175 bucks per family my ass.
    What bugs me the most about Obama is that he is attempting to hoodwink the country. The country irrationally loves him because we hate some of the racial details in the past. He is hoping to capitalize on this and literally con America.
    Obama should be honest. “I am passing the climate-change bill” to….Rrrrrrraaaaaaaaabit drum rollllllllll…to change the climate!!!!!!!
    Instead why get lies that a 7th grader in a social studies class could easily point out.

  104. And, if you could read what I said and actually comprehend my poor English contact me at Campaign4theRabbit.com and I will give you a pair of two free passes at any Detroit bowling alley of your choice.

  105. DR 2.0,

    Even the ultimate narcissist named T. Boone Pickens scrapped his plan this week for green energy (wind mills), and instead has chosen the less painful but more frugal alternative of…of…of

    More hydrocarbons! 😆

    Sooner or later they all come around to Tex’s way of thinking about energy. Natural gas was always the best alternative to crude oil. Cheap, plentiful, efficient, and most of the transportation and logistics mechanisms are in place. Build the cars, and they will buy.

    Don’t get me wrong – I’m a proponent of nuclear, wind, solar, tides, etc…

    But gang, our needs aren’t 50 years down the pike. They’re right now. Man’s arrogance thinking he can somehow control the weather only the latest in his failed attempts to act as substitute for the Living God.

    I’ll bet if I had chosen to be an unscrupulous SOB, I could have made a pretty good corporate raider.

  106. Elric: I don’t know where you got that last comment from, but it is inaccurate.

    Hadith are anything but “remarkably objective” or collected by “scientific methods.”

    The entire basis for any hadith is its isnad. Who told who the story? The names in that list are what gives any hadith its weight.

    You have to remember that bedouins had been passing down verbal history for centuries. Since before Islam, Arab tribesmen were not writing down history. After Muhammad came and went, people still continued to work from verbal history. Until finally someone decided they had better start writing this stuff down.

    So they started writing down the stories of what Muhammad had said and done. But, being as he had said and done those things so long before, people only had to work with what they had been told. So they would begin with, “So-and-so told whomever, who told the other guy, who then told……”

    Does that sound objective or scientific?

    There are about 900 recognized hadith. And only about 600 of them are even partially recognized. Probably about half are actually used in Islamic jurisprudence.

    It’s the same with the Koran. It wasn’t written during Muhammad’s time. It was written down afterward, and had different versions, until being standardized by Uthman ibn Affan in the latter part of the 7th Century.

  107. Red Pill,

    Am I to assume that you consider Christianity and Islam of about equal worth? From the history, to the successes, to the traditions?

    Before I challenge you, I want to make sure I understand very clearly about your own opinion.

    P.S. – Out of curiosity, does your “name” have anything to do with the medication you take, the Matrix, or something else in particular?

  108. “Am I to assume that you consider Christianity and Islam of about equal worth? From the history, to the successes, to the traditions?”

    He sure does. He defends at every opportunity. Even defends the psychotic Palis.

    “Elric: I don’t know where you got that last comment from, but it is inaccurate.”

    I’ll trust apostates over you. You know the people sanctioned for death by islamic law.

  109. Tex: It has to do with The Matrix.

    Regarding your religious question, I am not religious. I do not believe in God or a higher power of any form, other than natural science.

    So with that said, I consider all religions to have equal worth. I try and view them all objectively, as I am an outsider to them all.

    Certainly they all have their differences. I would never assert that religions are “the same.” Heck, even the sects within religions have differences. But, while religions do have differences, many of them also have similarities. Islam and Christianity are amung that group.

  110. Elric: So you believe that books based on generations of hearsay to be objective and collected through scientific methods?

    And I do not “defend” the Palestinians. I try to get you, and others, to see that not every Palestinian thinks and acts the same way, and I try to understand for myself why those who act in a negative fashion do so.

  111. Elric: “I’ll trust apostates over you. You know the people sanctioned for death by islamic law.”

    I notice you have more trust for the word of those speaking against Islam than you do for those who don’t.

    Why not think for yourself? Use your own mind to assess the topic.

    Again, do you seriously consider books where the primary source is generations of hearsay and verbal history to really be objective and compiled through scientific methods?

    What scientific methods have been used to collect and confirm these hadith?

  112. Regarding Obama “forgetting” where he met his wife, I kinda liked the comment posted at one of Elric’s citations:

    Ok, that’s enough for him earn eternal scorn from his wife.

    Things like that aren’t taken easily by wives. He’s in for a pair of hot ears. That won’t make the Angry Wife Unit happy.

    Next thing he’ll forget their wedding day… then he’s as good as dead.

    LOL … that’s about the size of it. I’d sooner see you get your panties in a knot over the “lies” he’s told about health care and global warming, than this silliness.

  113. So Rutherford, what do you think of the Obama children being paraded all over Russia and Italy the last couple days?

    Can we start making jokes about Berlusconi having sex with little Malia?

  114. “But, while religions do have differences, many of them also have similarities. Islam and Christianity are amung that group.”

    Yep. An islamic apologist. It would explain his defense of the psychotic Palis

  115. “Why not think for yourself? Use your own mind to assess the topic.”

    I do. Thats why I dont make insane statements like islam and Christianity are similar.

  116. “LOL … that’s about the size of it. I’d sooner see you get your panties in a knot over the “lies” he’s told about health care and global warming, than this silliness.”

    Uh huh. Thats why you dodge the questions about them Dodger. You fool no one here. Well except Curator but he is a bigger drone than you are.

  117. Red,

    Regarding your religious question, I am not religious. I do not believe in God or a higher power of any form, other than natural science.

    I see. Do you ever give thought to:

    (1) What will happen when your heart stops?
    (2) How you explain the finite universe?
    (3) Is it possible that science can’t explain the formations of the universe, and that it possible that there is something or someone well beyond science?

    If I may be so bold, and being pretty versed in the sciences from chemistry, to physics, to biology having a minor in all three, I find your thinking incredibly shallow?

    Not meaning to start an argument here, but I have never been able to put a finger on those that live in a creation without believing in a Creator. That type of thinking is completely foreign to me.

    I guess the best way to say it is, “We can argue who is this Creator as that a fair question. But to deny a Creator seems to me to be willfully blind and without admitting as much as the height of both arrogance and rebellion.

    What worries me is that like I told Rutherford once, you’re running out of time. That is not meant as an insult or threat – just an obvious fact which is undeniable. 😉

  118. “And I do not “defend” the Palestinians. I try to get you, and others, to see that not every Palestinian thinks and acts the same way, and I try to understand for myself why those who act in a negative fashion do so.”

    And not every German thought and acted the same way in WW 2. Your point?

  119. Elric,

    When I hear or read of people who make statements that Allah and God are one in the same, or that Christianity and Islam are just different flavors of religion with structured similarities, I am immediately aware of two things:

    (1) They haven’t a clue to what they speak of;
    (2) That they either are woefully ignorant or willingly blind that not only are they not similar in their basic tenets, they are diametrically opposed in their meaning.

    For instance, one has an impersonal God – and one requires a relationship with God. One is a lover of death and admits as much; the other a lover of life and states as much.

  120. Tex,

    That would explain why Dodger and Red Pill are moral relativists. RP not as much as he can at least see thuggy for what he is. No faith and a strong belief in their culture so they view them all basically the same. Once you get there then whats the point of defending your culture if the one that replaces it is no different? Thats why Eurabia is being slowly eaten by islam. When two cultures are put together and one is tolerant of intolerance and the other is mono cultural and intolerant of other cultures. Guess which one wins out?

  121. Tex,

    Very true. I always looked at it this way.

    In Christianity, a believer has a relationship with God like Father and child.

    In islam, a believer has a relationship with allah like slave and master.

  122. Elric,

    No doubt that Christianity and Islam diametrically opposed. To not understand that is to be ignorant of fact.

    I think “R” and Red full of good intent. I consider neither the enemy – one is more in line with my politics; therefore in the past I have been more supportive of the Red Pill. What I would like to ask them both is if each man capable of judging what is moral and what is not, who is to say what is right and what is wrong?

    I believe God has instilled in each of us a set of natural laws making some decisions and morality obvious – or at least they should be. However, that is not enough to be of sound mind when making all the tough decisions and invariably leads to a downfall as history has proven time and time again.

    Like Ecclesiastes says, “There is nothing new under the sun.”

  123. Tex: Yes I have thought about those things. In my defense, I will point out that I did not say I am without faith. I know that science cannot explain many things, but I have faith that there is a scientific explanation for them—we just don’t know what it is.

    I also don’t say there is no God (not saying you accused me of such). I am well aware that I may be completely wrong, and it is something I give considerable thought to.

    I’m not going to get into the other things because you and I have already had that debate, and I think it is best left at we respectfully agree to respectively disagree.

    Elric: “And not every German thought and acted the same way in WW 2. Your point?”

    I think you just made my point. People are not the same, and we should not generalize about them.

    I also notice that you left some of my questions unanswered. As in…all of them.

    Do you consider hearsay and verbal histories to be objective and passing the scrutiny of scientific methods?

    And if so, what scientific method(s) were been used to compile and support them?

  124. I could have added a third to that list Elric and perhaps it is the most important difference – and surely a striking difference.

    Christianity is the only “religion” (I use that word loosely as I don’t like it) that says you simply can’t be good enough to work your way to heaven. “None is righteous, no not one.” Salvation a gift that is freely given and simply must be accepted. But it must be accepted.

    That surely does not define Islam, or any of the world’s other great “religions”.

  125. I” think you just made my point. People are not the same, and we should not generalize about them.”

    No I didnt. We still went to war with Germany regardless. Germany elected Hitler, Palis elected Hamas. So what if there were some good ones. How did that make a difference?

    “Do you consider hearsay and verbal histories to be objective and p”assing the scrutiny of scientific methods?”

    Doesnt matter what I think. muslims obviously do.

    “And if so, what scientific method(s) were been used to compile and support them? ”

    Like I said, its the muslims that think the ahadiths are sacred and 2nd only to the quran. Whatever is in them islamic scholars thought it good enough to put them in. Like Mo fornicating with a little girl.

  126. Red,

    This statement is incorrect, and it is incorrect by the very definition of physical science – the science that you put your “faith.”

    I know that science cannot explain many things, but I have faith that there is a scientific explanation for them—we just don’t know what it is.

    Science by definition can not explain the physical universe – something from nothingness. There are no physical constructs to explain as much. There is nothing in the scientific method to address such. And since it is universally agreed that the universe had an origin and is finite, it must be by definition therefore considered supernatural.

  127. “Elric….do you believe Christ died on the cross for our sins and is God?”

    What does my belief have to do with it? I do know that muslims dont but do believe Jesus will come back, break the cross and make war with non muslims. Must be one of those “similarities” RP was referring to.

  128. It just seems ironic that you keep throwing the dodger insult around and can’t really answer the most simple and important of questions about yourself.

    Whats that I hear? A rooster calling out the third time?

  129. Christianity is the only “religion” (I use that word loosely as I don’t like it) that says you simply can’t be good enough to work your way to heaven. “None is righteous, no not one.” Salvation a gift that is freely given and simply must be accepted. But it must be accepted.

    Tex, I’m not 100% sure about that one. Some Christians believe that “good works” can go a long way. Why was I told to say the Hail Mary 10,000 times growing up?

    And while I don’t dare debate you with theology, surely what you wrote wasn’t really practiced/realized by 99% of Christians until the Reformation.

  130. I have no idea why it’s in quotes. Will somebody, in terms a complete moron could understand, tell me how to quote somebody on here?

    Editor’s note: Rabbit you used some sort of funky “cit” tag. A simple blockquote tag would have sufficed. I corrected the comment without of course editing any of your verbiage.

  131. type the greater than symbol the word blockquote,less than symbol. type/paste your stuff then greater than back slash blockquoteless than

  132. type the greater than symbol the word blockquote,less than symbol. type/paste your stuff then greater than back slash blockquoteless than\blockquote>

  133. “It just seems ironic that you keep throwing the dodger insult around and can’t really answer the most simple and important of questions about yourself.”

    Im asking what does it have to do with the debate? I didnt ask Dodger or RP their faith. Well other than multiculturalism. That they answered by themselves.

  134. D.R.,

    Tex, I’m not 100% sure about that one. Some Christians believe that “good works” can go a long way. Why was I told to say the Hail Mary 10,000 times growing up?

    Somebody better tell that to Benedict and already too late to tell John Paul. They both admitted as much and stated so for the record.

    Faith without works is dead, no doubt. But good works without the admission of who Christ is are good works by man’s standards – but not the one who counts.

    Anybody that thinks they are capable of working themselves into heaven, will be in for the ultimate rude awakening brother…

  135. Has the Rutherford ever had a 200 comment thread?

    Rutherford, you owe the Rabbit a drink for turning us all on to the Rutherford Lawson blog.

    Either that, or you rue the day you told Brother Rabbit about the site.

    Now Rutherford, get your ass back to your blog and start answering questions. This Twitter crap is bogus and you need to be tough enough to get back with the big dogs.

  136. Good luck with that Tex.

    I dont think he likes being challenged too much. Prefers the echo chamber where they can all praise “The One”. Of course “The One” is now at a minus 5. LOL

  137. Anybody that thinks they are capable of working themselves into heaven, will be in for the ultimate rude awakening brother…

    I’m screwed….

    When you hear Peter calling for security and this huge commotion at the gate, pay no mind Tex….it’s me.

    I guess I’m hoping for the first level of hell as according to Dante. At least I’ll get to hang out with all the cool pagan philosophers in the stifling heat.

  138. Elric,

    This place is a forum for how we each, as individuals, see the world. You’re very willing to call out others lack of faith in Christianity or traditional American values. Yet, your incredulous when I ask about your own views.

  139. Can we start making jokes about Berlusconi having sex with little Malia?

    Red Pill, for someone I consider to be pretty intellectual you are as thick as London fog on this one.

    For the umpteenth time, I did not say that Sarah Palin should not be photographed with her children. Nor did I say that photoshopping any of her kid’s pictures was taking the high road. My issue with Palin is the way she reacts. In my opinion, her reactions almost always cross the line from genuine outrage to self-serving political manipulation. It’s as simple as that.

  140. Elric, regarding Robin of Berkeley in American Thinker, for someone looking for positive energy I find it interesting she starts her list with:

    “We have lovely Miss Carrie Prejean; they have Missing Link Janeane Garofalo.”. Real positive there.

    She’s a psychotherapist, a profession that contains some of the most screwed up folks on the planet (oh yes, I’ll catch hell for saying that, kevlar vest fastened tightly).

    Finally, her own advice is something you totally hold in disdain, and I quote:

    “In my opinion, conservatives need to mix things up a bit and get the word out that we are not the offspring of Lucifer. Perhaps a big tent, an end to infighting, and a sense of humor will help.”

    The last thing you want is a big tent. Also, I’d like to know what exactly turned her from lib to neo-con. Maybe she started sleeping with different sorts of guys? 😉

  141. “a psychotherapist, a profession that contains some of the most screwed up folks on the planet”

    No argument from the Rabbit on that one…

  142. “The last thing you want is a big tent. Also, I’d like to know what exactly turned her from lib to neo-con. Maybe she started sleeping with different sorts of guys? ;-)”

    Maybe she learned to think for herself unlike the drones of the demomarxist party.

    BTW China and India arent on board with destroying their economies like thuggy wants to do with ours. So whats the point on cap and trade if they wont commit suicide like us and that the EPA said it wont make a damn bit of difference?

    I know you dont like to indulge in the tough questions but please try. 🙂

    “My issue with Palin is the way she reacts. In my opinion, her reactions almost always cross the line from genuine outrage to self-serving political manipulation. It’s as simple as that.”

    Geesh its not like she left a woman in the river to drown after driving drunk for God sake.

  143. Islamic Society of North America convention features hate speech, defense of jihad terrorists

    The unindicted co-conspirator and Muslim Brotherhood arm known as the Islamic Society of North America has shown itself — again — to be less than “moderate.” Yet Obama’s aide was there, and it was all apparently fine with her.

    “‘Mainstream’ Islamist Convention Features Hate Speech and Hezbollah Defense,” from IPT News, July 8 (thanks to all who sent this in):

    A top aide to President Barack Obama provided a keynote address at last weekend’s 46th Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) national convention, a gathering that attracted thousands of people and also featured anti-Semitic, homophobic rhetoric and defense of the terrorist group Hezbollah.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026868.php#respond

    I would say Im shocked but Im not. Thuggy learned his hatred of Jews and Israel from his good ol mentor Wright.

  144. Elric: “Germany elected Hitler, Palis elected Hamas.”

    And we elected the Democratic party and Barack Obama to lead this country. So does that mean you are cool with suffering the penalty for their actions?

    “So what if there were some good ones. How did that make a difference?”

    It made a big difference when the war was over and people were being tried for war crimes.

    Do you think all of the German people should have been punished for what was done in their name?

    “Doesnt matter what I think. muslims obviously do.”

    It matters because you brought up the topic into this discussion, and I have engaged it with a question.

    Don’t tell me after all your noise about people dodging questions and your links that when the rubber meets the road you aren’t prepared to answer questions about the topic you brought up.

    For the 3rd time…do you honestly believe oral histories and hearsay to be objective and passing the scientific method of scrutiny? Don’t dodge the question with some copout about what Muslims think. I am asking what you think.

    “Like I said, its the muslims that think the ahadiths are sacred and 2nd only to the quran. Whatever is in them islamic scholars thought it good enough to put them in. ”

    And like I said, there are over 900 different books of hadith, with only about half being recognized as having anything believed to be solid as far as Islamic jurisprudence. And even then, there are different variations of Islamic jurisprudence.

    You are overgeneralizing.

    Rutherford: “My issue with Palin is the way she reacts”

    Well since Letterman made his joke and then Palin reacted, how about if we all go ahead and make our jokes about the Obama kids and then see how their daddy reacts.

    Or even how you react.

    You’d be cool with that, right?

    After all, if Obama is going to consistantly parade his kids around to make political points, then he shouldn’t get angry when it backfires on him, should he?

    So I guess I will start working up a Top 10 list of things the Obama family did on their trip to Russia and Italy. I should be able to have some good fun rhyming Putty-Poot and Juicy Fruit, don’t you think?

  145. BTW China and India arent on board with destroying their economies like thuggy wants to do with ours. So whats the point on cap and trade if they wont commit suicide like us and that the EPA said it wont make a damn bit of difference?

    Geesh its not like she left a woman in the river to drown after driving drunk for God sake.

    Relative to the first comment … what kind of Kindergarten logic is that? Until all the other kids in the room stop littering, I won’t stop littering because if it’s just me, it won’t make a real difference. What a totally dumb-ass stance to take. Either you believe that we are damaging our environment or you don’t. If you say we aren’t then you have a logical stand to say we should keep the status quo. But if you say we are damaging our environment, then we need to stop it, regardless of what China, India, etc are doing.

    As for Chappaquiddick, you have to go back more than 40 years to make a counter argument about Sarah Palin? Kind of a non-starter since my comments are not about what a saint Ted Kennedy is.

  146. “It made a big difference when the war was over and people were being tried for war crimes.”

    Well guess what? The war isnt over and never will be.

    “And we elected the Democratic party and Barack Obama to lead this country. So does that mean you are cool with suffering the penalty for their actions?”

    I wasnt aware the Palis were complaining

    “Do you think all of the German people should have been punished for what was done in their name?”

    They were during the war.

    “For the 3rd time…do you honestly believe oral histories and hearsay to be objective and passing the scientific method of scrutiny? Don’t dodge the question with some copout about what Muslims think. I am asking what you think.”

    Do I? I dont know how else they would have comprised them. But they really scrutinized what when in and most was tossed out. Its not like they had google. They did what was best at the time.

    And I still say its quite odd that you think islam and Christianity are very similar. Still cant grasp that one.

  147. You kind of skipped over where the EPA said that it wont make a bit of difference. What kind of kindergarten logic is that?

    “Kind of a non-starter since my comments are not about what a saint Ted Kennedy is.”

    Not a saint? He left a woman to die and he is “The lion of the senate” .

    And I could go over all the crap thuggy is doing to destroy this country but you wont even touch that.

  148. Here’s the deal Red Pill. I submit that if Obama’s kids were made fun of in the press, folks would probably scream foul on his behalf. He would probably say nothing because he knows that his reaction could bring more unwanted attention on his kids and exacerbate the situation. That is something Miss Sarah has not figured out.

    And by the way, I hope you are not suggesting that Obama can’t take his kids to Europe and Russia any more than I am saying that Sarah Palin can’t bring her family on stage at the Rep convention.

  149. “He would probably say nothing because he knows that his reaction could bring more unwanted attention on his kids and exacerbate the situation.”

    No thuggy wouldnt be man enough to defend his kids himself, he would send one of his goons like Axelrod to do his dirty work.

  150. By the way, thanks folks for the religious debate earlier in the thread. It’s the perfect segue to my next post which I hope to finish tonight.

    Ehhhh, Tex … I think I finally understand the basic tenet of Christianity that appeals to you … that it demands humility. It demands that we all admit our subservience to a higher power. You see, where I come from, good works done for goodness sake, should be enough to earn you a ticket past the pearly gates. But from what I understand from you, the most charitable, hard working, selfless dude in the world will go straight to hell if he doesn’t say that Christ died for his sins. For to not say this would be to place oneself on a pedestal. To get admission, you have to admit subservience and gratitude to Christ.

    Do I understand you correctly?

  151. You kind of skipped over where the EPA said that it wont make a bit of difference. What kind of kindergarten logic is that?

    No, the EPA said our unilateral action would make little difference. This does not mean we should stop. It means we should put more pressure on the India’s and China’s of the world to step up to the plate.

  152. I never said they were very similar. I said they have similarities. That is a big difference. You and I have similarities, but that doesn’t mean you and I are very similar.

    “I dont know how else they would have comprised them.”

    I told you how. Plus, it is in the isnad of every hadith. You know that list of who told who told who at the beginning of every hadith entry?

    The big scientific scrutiny is judging the credibility of those people.

    Which is hardly scientific or objective, because judging someone’s credibility is subjective.

    “They were during the war.”

    I didn’t ask about history, I asked what you think. Stop dodging the question.

    Do you think all of the German people should have been punished for what was done in their name?

    “I wasnt aware the Palis were complaining”

    Dude. For starters, Palestinians on the West Bank didn’t elect Hamas, so you are overgeneralizing yet again.

    And did Hamas get 100% of the vote in Gaza? If not, would you think it is safe to assume that not all Palestinians in Gaza are for Hamas?

  153. “It means we should put more pressure on the India’s and China’s of the world to step up to the plate.”

    And why would they want to commit economical suicide like us?

  154. “I didn’t ask about history, I asked what you think. Stop dodging the question.”

    Im not dodging Im pointing out the absurdity of it. When a people are at war with you, you dont think about if there are good people, you win the war first. Especially if they elected a government whose charter calls for your annihilation. Ohhh and Fatah isnt any better. They never changed their charter either.

    “Do you think all of the German people should have been punished for what was done in their name?”

    During the war? Yes

    “Dude. For starters, Palestinians on the West Bank didn’t elect Hamas, so you are overgeneralizing yet again.”

    Dude, they have Fatah

    “And did Hamas get 100% of the vote in Gaza? If not, would you think it is safe to assume that not all Palestinians in Gaza are for Hamas?”

    No the rest are for Fatah.

    This week Israel approved the transfer of 1,000 AK-47 rifles to the Palestinian Authority security forces that are being trained by American Lt.-Gen. Keith Dayton. This comes at the same time as former PA Minister of Prisoners, Ashraf al-Ajrami, is honoring these very same PA security forces for being the backbone of Palestinian terror during the five-year Terror War (Intifada).

  155. “R”,

    I submit that if Obama’s kids were made fun of in the press, folks would probably scream foul on his behalf. He would probably say nothing because he knows that his reaction could bring more unwanted attention on his kids and exacerbate the situation. That is something Miss Sarah has not figured out

    I submit that you are wrong. This is a man that went apoplectic when we started dissing his wife for her not proud comments about America. I can’t imagine what Jimmy Obama’s reaction would be if a large part of conservative America started dissing his kids.

    Hopefully, we never find out. But I have a feeling if they don’t lay off Palin’s kids soon, we are going to find out.

  156. “R”,

    Ehhhh, Tex … I think I finally understand the basic tenet of Christianity that appeals to you … that it demands humility. It demands that we all admit our subservience to a higher power. You see, where I come from, good works done for goodness sake, should be enough to earn you a ticket past the pearly gates. But from what I understand from you, the most charitable, hard working, selfless dude in the world will go straight to hell if he doesn’t say that Christ died for his sins. For to not say this would be to place oneself on a pedestal. To get admission, you have to admit subservience and gratitude to Christ.

    Do I understand you correctly?

    Well,that’s kind of the message. What I am saying is that it follows that if you are a follower of Christ, good works should be a part of your character. However, your own works would never be good enough to get you to the admittance of heaven because you would still have a sinful nature. I know many that I would define as good people that are still lost. I’m sure if I knew Red, I would define him as a “good” person. However, being good still isn’t good enough. I suppose humility would be as good a descriptor as any. However, a blood sacrifice was required and the sacrifice had to be perfect. Only one person who has walked this earth was capable – and then that person fully God.

    I would be happy to convey this is a deeper context of my own understanding, but if you’re about to enlighten us with a new post, I’ll hold my water until then.

  157. “R”,

    It means we should put more pressure on the India’s and China’s of the world to step up to the plate.

    How do you propose to put pressure on the two most populous nations on earth? They’re already shooting us the collective finger, and in China’s case, they apparently hold a better hand than we do at the moment. China is now capable of tanking our own economy, if I understand my macro-economics correctly.

  158. Elric, one of your latest comments wound up in my spam filter and I accidentally deleted it (I think you know from my track record of publishing all your damn links that it WAS an accident).

    In any case, if you remember what you wrote, please repost.

  159. Tex: “Hopefully, we never find out. But I have a feeling if they don’t lay off Palin’s kids soon, we are going to find out.”

    No we won’t. Nobody has the stones to talk shit about Obama in public, let alone his wife and/or kids.

    Can you imagine if people were questioning if Barack Obama was actually the father of all his children?

  160. “Can you imagine if people were questioning if Barack Obama was actually the father of all his children?”

    Obama cant even remember where he met his wife so maybe its true.

  161. Catastrophe – How Shariah Law Has Taken Over The West

    Im sure you can sacrifice 3 min 21 sec to learn what sharia law banking is doing to the West.

  162. Catastrophe – How Shariah Law Has Taken Over The West

    This is certainly interesting but boy I wish the source was a bit better. Dick Morris’ resume makes me want to second-guess anything he has to say. Then he goes on to mention Frank Gaffney, a horse’s ass if there ever was one.

    Although I will say this, the idea of suing AIG for having a “religious related” investment fund does appeal to me. I’d say this whether the fund was oriented toward Muslims or Christians or Jews.

  163. Wow you watched it. Surprise surprise. You can find lots of info on Sharia law banking and the West. It was a concise short clip so thought Id educate you a bit. Though I was surprised to see it was Dick Morris on the video. I wasnt aware he was that knowledgeable on the subject.

    But as far as I know, their is no such thing as “Christian” banking or “Jewish” banking so I dont think you will have to worry about that. As I keep trying to tell you. islam isnt like any other religion.

  164. Rutherford: Here is a little bit of cultural context that Mr. Morris may not have covered in that video.

    It is against the rules for Muslims to charge or pay interest on loans. Some Muslim financial institutions do charge a “service charge” that acts somewhat like interest, but it is not calculated and structured in the same way that interest on a loan is.

    The reason is that it was believed to be wrong to make money (interest) on someone else’s hardship. Which they would obviously be in (back in the day) if they were seeking a loan.

    So now knowing that, doesn’t it make sense that Muslims might want their own banking that takes their beliefs into account?

  165. “So now knowing that, doesn’t it make sense that Muslims might want their own banking that takes their beliefs into account?”

    Just like everything else. I guess the ties to jihadists didnt bother you. No of course not.

  166. “The reason is that it was believed to be wrong to make money (interest) on someone else’s hardship.”

    Like jizya? You are too funny.

  167. Here is a little bit of cultural context that Mr. Morris may not have covered in that video.

    Well, you knew old Dick would leave that nugget out of the equation. As I suspected, the source of the information helps qualify or disqualify it right off the bat.

    Thanks for the context … I appreciate it.

  168. And once again Dodger dodges how the West is expected to accommodate islamic beliefs in the West. And also ignored it when I brought up jizya. I guess its ok to make a profit off the hard work of dhimmis, eh Dodger and Red Pill?

  169. Elric: “I guess its ok to make a profit off the hard work of dhimmis, eh Dodger and Red Pill?”

    I don’t make the rules, Elric. I just report them.

    It’s what us relativists do, remember?

    I will also point out that we are talking about 2 different things. I specifically stated the words “interest” and “loan.” Jizya has to do with neither.

    But feel free to dig up some Koranic verse that says I am wrong about Islamic beliefs on interest and loans.

  170. “I don’t make the rules, Elric. I just report them.”

    And you go out of your way to defend sharia law being implemented in the West.

    “I will also point out that we are talking about 2 different things. I specifically stated the words “interest” and “loan.” Jizya has to do with neither.”

    I was pointing your hypocrisy. But no, its not an interest or loan, its a religion using mafia tactics to abuse and humiliate non muslims. But its ok to make money off that. But we cant charge the poor ol muslims interest living in the West. That would be badddd.

    Oh and feel free to comment on post number 6 on the new thread. I know how you love to defend the Palis. 🙂

  171. “I was pointing your hypocrisy.”

    Where is my hypocrisy? I stated the Muslim belief as it relates to loans and interest.

    If there is any hypocrisy, it would be in the Muslim belief, not in my statement, which you have yet to prove wrong.

    And RE #6 in the other thread, I did comment. But perhaps I should have just used your latest dodging tactic and replied “why should I?”

  172. “And you go out of your way to defend sharia law being implemented in the West.”

    No I don’t.

    I don’t do blame or defense when it comes to relgion. I do explanation and comparison.

    Relativism, remember?

  173. “No I don’t.”

    Yes you did

    “I don’t do blame or defense when it comes to relgion. I do explanation and comparison.

    Relativism, remember?”

    That you do. Must be nice thinking all cultures and religions are no better or worse than each other.

  174. And also ignored it when I brought up jizya

    Pardon my ignorance Elric but I figured jizya was some Muslim word for semen. 😉

    Seriously, sometimes your knowledge of Islam goes over my head and I don’t have time to look everything up. That’s why I’m glad Red Pill is here. 🙂

  175. Jizya is a tax muslims reserve for non muslims only. Usually required to be given in such a way the non muslims feels humiliated and subdued.

    And of course no other religion requires a poll tax on non believers except……….you got it. islam

  176. GAO: Electric cars won’t reduce carbon emissions

    So, let’s see … we can’t power cars with gasoline and we can’t use electricity. Looks like we’re screwed heh?

    For what it’s worth, IBD is known to skew conservative in their reporting, not that that negates the GAO finding. I’d just be interested to hear the Dem spin on it for the sake of balance.

  177. “So, let’s see … we can’t power cars with gasoline and we can’t use electricity. Looks like we’re screwed heh?”

    No, not really. If we drilled our own resources we wouldnt be screwed. I dont mind finding alternative sources of energy. This so called energy policy is insane. And as I posted before which you didnt respond. The Dems in Cali blocked solar panels going up in the desert. Same people killing the farms in Cali over a friggin fish.

    “C’mon Elric, even you have to admit that’s a nice ass. :-)”

    I guess for a 16 year old.

  178. Liar in chief well lies…..

    Obama on stimulus: It’s worked great!
    posted at 11:45 am on July 11, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
    Share on Facebook | printer-friendly

    What did we expect him to say, “We misread the economy?” That’s for losers and Vice Presidents … but I repeat myself. In his weekly radio address, Barack Obama insisted that we should stop listening to the critics — and the man he put in charge of the stimulus package — and revel in the fabulous success that is Porkulus:

    That’s an absolute lie, and a deliberate one. In fact, it’s a series of deliberate lies. First, the Republicans did offer at least two proposals, neither of which Nancy Pelosi would allow to come to the floor. One was a tax-holiday proposal which would have allowed taxpayers a break from funding the federal government. The second and better idea actually came from moderate Democrat Rep. Walt Minnick (ID), who proposed a $170 billion START stimulus that relied solely on tax refunds and government spending in only 2009. Republicans backed Minnick’s START plan, but it never got a vote — because Pelosi and Obama locked Minnick’s idea out in favor of their plan.

    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/07/11/obama-on-stimulus-its-worked-great/

  179. Obama Frees Iranian Terror Masters
    The release of the Irbil Five is a continuation of a shameful policy.

    By Andrew C. McCarthy

    There are a few things you need to know about President Obama’s shameful release on Thursday of the “Irbil Five” — Quds Force commanders from Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) who were coordinating terrorist attacks in Iraq that have killed hundreds — yes, hundreds — of American soldiers and Marines.

    http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZjY0MjkwOWVkYTNlYzE2ZjM1N2E5M2M0MTdiYTI3MzM=&w=MA==

    So whose side is thuggy on? This would explain his lack of “meddling” in Iran.

  180. Obama Grovels to Russia

    By Pamela Geller
    The press, true to form, is hailing Obama’s trip to Russia as statesmanlike. Reality, as usual, is different.

    When Obama took a pass on missile defense and agreed with Russia’s Medvedev to reduce our nuclear arsenal by one-third, he accomplished worse than nothing. He sold out our Eastern European allies, dumping a desperately needed missile defense plan for Poland. As he did so, he revised history, claiming we did not win the cold war. Obama said, “We don’t have to diminish other people in order to recognize our role in that history.” Yes, he said that. And it gets worse.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/07/obama_grovels_to_russia.html

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