Words About Words

Two phrases have been bandied about in recent weeks that caught my attention. The first is rather trivial. The second speaks to a deeper problem in American thought processes.

Love Trumps Hate

Someone thought this slogan, seen on placards at the Democratic Convention, was very clever. Trump (Donald’s last name) is used in card game parlance as a card of a suit that has been designated to beat any card of any other suit. As a verb, it has come to mean “beat”. So “love trumps hate” is equivalent to love beats hate. The logical problem here is that the verb “trump” plays a POSITIVE role in the sentence, love trumps hate. We are supposed to associate hate with Donald Trump. But his name is actually used as a positive acting verb. The slogan doesn’t really meet its purpose when you think about it. Two other permutations of the sentence would really have been more to the point: “love hates Trump” and “Trump loves hate”.

White Working Class Voters

Each time I hear this phrase it irks me more and more. It is common terminology among the talking heads of both liberal and conservative media.

The working class cuts across all races and ethnicities. To constantly refer to the white working class is to suggest race trumps class in this society. Why wouldn’t black working class voters like Trump? Why should their race override their economic concerns?

More bothersome is that blacks (and to some extent Hispanics) are portrayed in political talk as a monolith. You almost never hear phrases like “black college graduates” or “black suburban mothers” while whites are sliced and diced to the nth degree.

This is a pox on our society because it reduces blacks to a simple common denominator – their race. Nothing else matters. But I suggest that the black single mother in an urban ghetto has very different concerns from a black divorced mother in Westport, Connecticut collecting alimony every month from her wealthy ex-husband.

Let’s call this what it is – racism, plain and simple. It is propagated across the media regardless of political ideology. As I have stated many times here, our racial problems are grounded in economic problems. The struggling working class black man has much more in common with the struggling working class white man than the black man living in Beverly Hills. You’ll never hear that on TV. Not from Sean Hannity and not from Rachel Maddow. In fact, not from anywhere in popular discussion. And that is why our so-called racial problems are here to stay for the foreseeable future.

What do you think? The bar is open.

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474 thoughts on “Words About Words

  1. The first part hurt my crack addled head. The second part was pretty good in my opinion.
    Speaker Ryan actually hooked up with some of the Black Caucus folks and set out a plan to address “persistent poverty”. This was a color blind scheme and was mocked by pretty much everyone. When you get a diverse set like Ryan and the CBC getting laughed at by the same people over the same topic at the same time you know how bad inside the Beltway is.
    I think it is a bipartisan thing that economics have been sidetracked for race in voter identity. Both sides do it.

  2. Another variable of racism in reverse as it were is how the media views the white blue collar folks as racist first as opposed to just being bent over their economic situation.

  3. From the prior thread…

    “Alfie, I’ve seen justifications of the Libya action here on some humanitarian basis. May have been Rabbit or another member of the Coulter crew.”

    Or maybe it was Alfie and I explaining to you how liberals justify using America’s “unique military capabilities” to do the same things neoconservatives do, but claiming it is for different reasons–in the case of liberals, for humanitarian reasons.

  4. “More bothersome is that blacks (and to some extent Hispanics) are portrayed in political talk as a monolith. You almost never hear phrases like “black college graduates” or “black suburban mothers” while whites are sliced and diced to the nth degree.”

    When those demographics stop engaging in political activism and voting as a monolith then they will stop being portrayed in political talk as one.

    If people want to be recognized as diverse they first have to show diversity.

  5. Obama has insulted Israel by claiming they now accept the greatness of the Iran nuclear deal. Israel says this is a load of shit.

    I sure hope they don’t bomb us….

  6. When those demographics stop engaging in political activism and voting as a monolith then they will stop being portrayed in political talk as one.

    Damn straight, Huck. Came in here just to type that and you beat me to it. Rutherford, though not quite as guilty as most blacks I know, still measures everything through the prism of race. Worse, I don’t think he recognizes it. “R” has mellowed a bit since I met him, but scratch long enough and the NAACP comes rumbling out.

  7. Another variable of racism in reverse as it were is how the media views the white blue collar folks as racist

    Yes, I neglected to point that out in the main piece. “White working class” is a dog whistle for bigots, homophobes and Islamophobes when used in the lib media.

  8. Since trump was originally drumpf, I would say he chose it for the positive word it is. Barack obama translates from the Hebrew text as lightning falling from heaven, which is stronger than barry soetoro. If we all chose our names we would make them strong and positive. But these are ones that were bred for the public with reason to put on an act. As for the slogan, it keeps those words in play.

    People don’t understand the power in words. They just want to shout collectively. We like to be cliquish. If it were love triumphs over hate, it would not involve the orange sleaze. But then that wouldn’t stay on message.

    Love is a greatly misunderstood word. Because of its power its meaning has been intentionally tweaked and distorted. Most cannot define its meaning or mistake it for one’s pleasure. They have no reference point. I suggest the 13th chapter of 1st Corinthians (aka the love chapter) for starters.

    Perfect love casts out all fear. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Love is definitely active and self sacrificing. It is truly better to give than receive.

    Hate is also active, but is not the opposite of love. Evil is the opposite of love. Hate can be channeled into positive purpose, whereas evil cannot understand love. Instead of love trumps hate they should have chosen mercy triumphs over judgment.

    There is no love on the teevee. Everything on the teevee is intentionally there to MANipulate™ you, the audience. Teevee told you what racism is. Subliminals are a part of every single feed. Symbols speak to the subconscious where we take in about 98 percent of all our perception. None of these teevee events are live anymore since janet jackson had her wardrobe malfunction event which was surely planned as nothing is spontaneous. Nothing.

    Controversy is intentionally sought or created, then provoked and hyped. They want chaos and fear. It is about them using the chaos to take control. Order out of chaos is the motto. Keeping us fearful and fighting between ourselves allows them to intervene and interject their edicts into our lives.

    Stay tuned for the solutions we’ve prepared in advance of these crises for you. It’s getting better and better and better you bet.

    Brzezinski said, “Today it is easier to kill a million people than it is to control a million people.” So we beam teevee into every smart device to hypnotize while the poisons they promote are slowly introduced into our blood streams through every means and delivery system possible. We are setting up free wifi all over the globe to beam control to every tribe and nation. Like fat happy frogs, the jacuzzi starts in lukewarm and slowly over time heats to a boil.

    Pop some popcorn, the drama’s just now building. Shall we wager how many crises they will perform before November?

  9. Or maybe it was Alfie and I explaining to you how liberals …

    Nope that wasn’t it but your point is well taken. A “humanitarian” liberal warmonger is just a neocon by a different name.

  10. Our problems in this country come (mostly) from one source, Democrats. If Democrats were denied guns, the gun murder rate would drop by nearly 90% and most of the horrific murder sprees would never have happened.

    Democrats are the most prolific source of racism in this nation, both today and throughout history. They along with the media are responsible for the notion that there is an expectation that blacks are supposed to think and act a certain way. That right there is the root of all racism. An expectation based on race and there are no greater purveyors of this thought process than Democrats.

    This is why I loath Democrats. They run on the notion of being against everything that they in fact are, and they blame the other side of being guilty of all the things they themselves practice, and their sheep buy it. They see all of the things that Democrats say is wrong in the world before them so they conclude that Democrats must be telling the truth. Were they to go one step further and investigate “root causes” of these problems, they would find that their own party holds the lions share. It is one of the greatest deceptions perpetrated on the people of this country. The mass murderer responsible for the death of 50 million blacks since roe v wade is holding the hand of the black community helping them look for the murderer of their culture, dragging them along in the economic chains they forged, and the black community thanks them for it.

  11. While the world Islamophobe makes some sense in the fact I fear walking on an airline with an Arab dressed man yelling Allahu Akbar, the word Homophobe makes absolutely no sense.

    Does the Left believe I fear homosexuals? It’s like the term African-Americans. A made up term by politicians, for politicians that I laugh and mock.

  12. Islamophobe makes no sense. A phobia is an irrational fear. Considering we are seeing an act of Islamic terrorism every 83 hours in the last two months, I do not think it is an irrational fear at all.

  13. It is totally irrational based on the false information your teevee and your leaders feed you. These ‘islamic’ radicals are slaughtering more real muslims than actual americans. Your own health system does a much more efficient job of slaughtering americans and we let them operate in every neighborhood for profit and with a tax break. That non thinking will be your demise.

  14. Poolman, as usual thinking is not your strong suit so it leads you come up with all kinds of irrational conclusions. Radical Islam calls us the great evil, and Israel the little evil. They have said they are coming and indeed they have been. No thinking person interested in surviving waits until they are the majority target. They kill those who are in arms reach first and then move on. ISIS is now in 18 countries and expanding. Think past your next joint and look at whats coming.

  15. Gee, and they never attack Israel. Things that make you go hmmmmm..

    Thinking ahead, you tell me the choice is either the satanic witch or the luciferian clown. Look around and point me to what is honorable. Radical americanism causes destruction wherever it goes. Show me where it has birthed anything somewhat noble in your lifetime.

    Or go back to ignoring my posts.

  16. Radical Islam attacks Israel all of the time. Note Hamas and their constitution that calls for the annihilation of all Jews.

    As far as you satanic rant, put down the illicit drug you are currently injecting and speak in coherent sentences.

  17. Alfie I heard an interesting stat on Bill Maher that I haven’t vetted yet but I’m curious about your take on it.

    Supposedly, there has not been an unarmed person shot and killed by a cop in Boston since 1991.

    If that’s true, it’s mind blowing. To what would you attribute it?

    P.S. Tigre were you in Boston back then? What’s your take?

  18. It’s iffy Rutherford,Eveline Barros Cepeda was a back seat passenger of a vehicle in 2002 that was shot and killed by the BPD. The officer was cleared because the car was considered a weapon. Ironically the DA wanted another officer disciplined for having stepped in front of the vehicle which caused another officer to open fire.
    Strictly speaking I’d say the BPD quite possibly hasn’t shot an “unarmed” person since ’91. I’d also say that armed is a flexible concept.

  19. Ok the stat appears to be “technically true”. So now to the second question. Boston being as urban as any other major American city, to what do you attribute the stat? The comedian on Bill Maher (no expert) said it was “community policing”. Do you agree? Does the BPD have a better relationship with communities of color in particular than other big cities?

  20. If Democrats were denied guns, the gun murder rate would drop by nearly 90% and most of the horrific murder sprees would never have happened.

    Unless I misunderstand you, that’s got to be one of the dumbest things I’ve read on the Internet. I’ll match your 90% with my own. 90% of gangbangers don’t vote. Some subset are recidivists who CAN’T VOTE. So what exactly are you talking about?

  21. “P.S. Tigre were you in Boston back then? What’s your take?”

    I had left right around then.

    Can’t say as I have an opinion other than I find it a very surprising stat. In fact, I have to share Alfie’s skepticism. I think how one defines “unarmed” may be the culprit. Boston cops are pretty tough. I sure got cracked a few times for simply “being there.” I would never chalk it up to some kind of restraint. The cops where I was were never restrained.

    You know, you guys give me flashbacks. When Alfie got talking about buying fireworks at the Haymarket it was like a time warp. I was thinking about those bitter-sweet times when I was a kid for days after he mentioned it.

  22. “The comedian on Bill Maher (no expert) said it was “community policing”. Do you agree? Does the BPD have a better relationship with communities of color in particular than other big cities?”

    Hold the fuck on here. That is a bizarre extrapolation. The stat you referred to doesn’t mean that people aren’t getting shot or that there’s some “relationship” with the community.

    I would also like to know what are is being defined as “Boston.”

    How’d he get there from that stat. I’m assuming he thinks unarmed black kids are getting gunned down all the time by racist cops so there must be something different going on there.

  23. I’m assuming he thinks unarmed black kids are getting gunned down all the time by racist cops so there must be something different going on there.

    Good question. I’m actually not sure if he cited the stat to disprove a falsely assumed norm or to say it was an exception to “the norm”.

  24. “Unless I misunderstand you, that’s got to be one of the dumbest things I’ve read on the Internet. I’ll match your 90% with my own. 90% of gangbangers don’t vote. Some subset are recidivists who CAN’T VOTE. So what exactly are you talking about?”

    Voting or not, they consider themselves Democrats and the number stands.

    Note how you took the easy way out, let the challenging and painful part slide by without retort? Telling.

  25. fyi brown and black cops shoot other blacks in far greater numbers than white cops. That number however falls massively short of blacks killing blacks in general, so much so that it totally delegitimizes the BLM movement.

  26. Noah, if you don’t vote and are in NO way politically active then you are just taking up space ideologically. You’re not a factor.

    So long as your 90% includes an entire swath of people who don’t participate in civilized society, the number is bogus.

    Let’s get real. You’d like to unarm blacks, not Democrats. I seem to recall an old chestnut about a certain Governor Reagan being a big 2nd Amendment guy until the Black Panthers started rising up and then suddenly gun control came to California. Things that make you go hmmmm.

  27. I haven’t had a chance to mention it but the Minnesota shooting of Castile presented some interesting 2nd Amendment issues. I think even the NRA spoke out in defense of Castile’s right to carry a licensed gun.

    You know the old phrase, “driving while black”? Now we can add to it “legally armed while black”. 😊

  28. “Noah, if you don’t vote and are in NO way politically active then you are just taking up space ideologically. You’re not a factor.”

    Voting or not voting is not what is killing people. The ideology is.

    Rutherford, I say exactly what I mean. I have no agenda or ulterior motive. Anything you attempt to place on me that I did not say is a scream of intellectual desperation on your part. You still ignored the ‘meat’ of my original comment.

  29. Oh the other story that got no play here at the bar was the counselor who was shot while lying on his back in the street. The excuse was the cop misfired and meant to hit the AUTISTIC guy who the counselor was trying to help.

    Yeah, some reforms are definitely needed.

  30. “You still ignored the ‘meat’ of my original comment.”

    That’s because your original argument is so meatless it’s only worthy of a vegan diet. Your entire argument is based on some figure you’ve pulled out of your ass and have no way of proving without more of the flawed reasoning you are quickly becoming famous for around here. Any thinking man would agree….

  31. “Yeah, some reforms are definitely needed.”

    Unless of course it was a bad person doing a bad thing that had nothing to do with policy. In that case policy reforms would not accomplish anything just like gun laws don’t stop criminals. I doubt a policy was responsible for a cop shooting an unarmed person who was not being aggressive.

  32. Noah, where in the Democratic Party agenda does it say “We support and promote gang wars in Chicago and other cities”?

    You are conflating, deliberately or not, criminal behavior with political behavior. If 90% of Chicago violence was committed by the New Black Panther party you might have a leg to stand on. But you’ve labeled COMMON THUGS Democrat with zero evidence. And what evidence would you need? Their voting record, their political donation records for starters.

    Shit, Donald Trump says he’s a Republican and everyone in this bar knows that’s a lie.

  33. As usual Huck you have missed what my actual point of my rant was about. But then your head was too far up your own ass licking Rutherford’s balls to notice.

    The meat in question.

    “This is why I loath Democrats. They run on the notion of being against everything that they in fact are, and they blame the other side of being guilty of all the things they themselves practice, and their sheep buy it. They see all of the things that Democrats say is wrong in the world before them so they conclude that Democrats must be telling the truth. Were they to go one step further and investigate “root causes” of these problems, they would find that their own party holds the lions share. It is one of the greatest deceptions perpetrated on the people of this country. The mass murderer responsible for the death of 50 million blacks since roe v wade is holding the hand of the black community helping them look for the murderer of their culture, dragging them along in the economic chains they forged, and the black community thanks them for it.”

  34. Unless of course it was a bad person doing a bad thing that had nothing to do with policy.

    Yes that’s the crux of it. At what point do we have enough “bad people” that we’ve reached a tipping point? I’m open to the notion that the media may have exaggerated the problem. I guess it comes down to how many YouTube “journalists” do we need before we say it isn’t an exaggeration.

  35. But then your head was too far up your own ass licking Rutherford’s balls to notice.

    LOL I suspect trash talk isn’t your strength (it’s not mine either). My balls were up his ass? That belongs in Ripleys!

  36. As for the 90% number. What percentage of blacks are Democrat? and it is a fact this 12% of the population is responsible for half of the murders in this nation.

    Add to that mass shootings and assassinations.
    Abraham Lincoln, James Garfield, John F Kennedy, Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan, 22 people in a McDonald’s restaurant, 15 people in an Oklahoma post office, 10 people in a GMAC office, 23 people in a Luby’s cafeteria in Texas, 5 people in a Texas lab, 8 people in a church service, a Democrat in the WH aiming for George Bush, 7 people at Lockheed Martin plant, 32 people at Virginia Tech, Gabrielle Giffords, 12 people at a movie theoter, 7 people in Minneapolis, 6 people in Newtown, 12 people in a Navy shipyard. All killed by Democrats.

  37. As for the 90% number. What percentage of blacks are Democrat?

    As evidenced by their VOTING record. When Chuck Todd says 90% of blacks are Dems, he’s talking about how they VOTE.

    Abraham Lincoln, James Garfield, John F Kennedy, Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan

    Lincoln killed by 19th century Democrat. There you go again in denial of changes in party ideology.

    Garfield killed by dude who didn’t get political appointment he wanted – and wanted Chester Alan Arthur POTUS. I believe his declaration as he fired the shot “I’m a stalwart, Arthur is President now!”

    Kennedy killed by Marxist. Most Dems don’t self identify as Marxist.

    Ford shot at by two loonies. Squeaky was a Manson girl, hardly your typical dem. I don’t recall the details of the second one.

    Reagan shot by loonie trying to impress Jodi Foster.

    So out of the entire list I’ll give you Squeaky since Manson considered himself political. Pending further research I’ll give you the second Ford shooter cos I don’t remember the details.

    By the way why did you leave off McKinley? Killed by an anarchist. Anarchists are basically Dems right? 🙄

  38. There is 100% denial of a change of party ideology. 1 person changed parties. It is a myth.
    The mindset of these people are not in question.
    If you want to argue that the vast majority of the black community are Republicans, by all means make your case, it should prove entertaining.

    Notice you did not comment on one mass shooting. Telling. I will point out one final time that it is the ideology, not the vote that is being discussed here. A person is not a Democrat only once they cast a vote. I am a Conservative even through I have no Conservative party to vote for.

    I accept your concession on the ‘meat’ of my argument.

  39. Rutherford,I can offer some empirical stuff that may mean something or absolutely nothing.

    Bill Bratton brought his brand of community policing to Boston in 92(?) although Boston didn’t experience Compstat or true “broken windows” policing. He actually did this neat trick of painting the cruisers a new scheme but not all at once. He’d have a mix hit the streets to give the impression more cars were on patrol.
    Boston has always played a sensitivity game on the surface with it’s individual communities up to and including the ridiculous position of Area Superintendent which was meant to diversify the high end of the ranks and give a community face for public relations.
    That said Bostons neighborhoods were always extremely segregated and in each of the area commands (A thru E) the beat cops pretty much knew where to find the usual suspects when there was trouble. They were also not to be confused with reformed cops as they were just as quick to dispense street justice as opposed to bringing you in. More so a bit of tossing you about and confiscating your illegals. Sent a message without the paperwork you see? Also even to today the BPD is kind of a no shit outfit that when they show up your fucking around clock is expiring and its pretty clear.
    A great example of that from back in the late 80’s I personally knew about was when one of the gangs based in one of the housing projects had the brilliant idea to put a bounty on the BPD. The BPD cooked up a warrant rounded the gang up and put them in a bathtub in one of the apartments. The message was clear. “We know where you are, we outnumber you and we will put you down”.
    They can be friendly as hell too don’t get me wrong and when and where they’re truly connected to the neighborhood most of the neighborhoods work with them.
    Like a lot of urban areas the cops tend to have Boston roots but actually live in the suburbs so some of the deeper connections get tested.

  40. Notice you did not comment on one mass shooting. Telling.

    Notice you did not further defend your ahistorical presidential assassination analysis. Telling.

  41. There is nothing to defend, you are in error.

    John Wilkes Booth: Booth was a Democrat, No Dispute

    James A. Garfield Assassin: Charles J. Guiteau No dispute.

    Kennedy Marxist/Socialist. 1 step to the left of Democrat.

    Ford: That a person is a lunatic does not change their ideology. No dispute, Democrat.

    Gabrielle Giffords, not disputed, killed by a Democrat.

    Reagan Not disputed, shot by a Democrat.

    22 people in a McDonald’s restaurant, 15 people in an Oklahoma post office, 10 people in a GMAC office, 23 people in a Luby’s cafeteria in Texas, 5 people in a Texas lab, 8 people in a church service, a Democrat in the WH aiming for George Bush, 7 people at Lockheed Martin plant, 32 people at Virginia Tech, 12 people at a movie theater, 7 people in Minneapolis, 6 people in Newtown, 12 people in a Navy shipyard. All killed by Democrats. Not disputed.

    The vast majority of blacks are Democrats. Not disputed.
    Blacks are responsible for half of all murders in this country each year. Not disputed.

    Asked. Answered. Your turn.

  42. My analysis stands Noah and you’re plain wrong. I was being charitable by giving you the two Ford shooters.

    Oh and if you paid attention to the dem convention (or read my post) you’d know Giffords very much alive.

  43. Not all assassinations are successful. Reagan and Ford lived also.

    Good god man do you need remedial English. Not all ATTEMPTED assassinations are successful. By definition, if it was indeed an assassination then the target is very very dead.

  44. What part of I made a mistake listing Giffords as a kill by mistake didn’t you understand? I revised it to being shot. I Did not say attempted assassination I said “Not all assassinations are successful. Reagan and Ford lived also.” I put killed where I should have put shot. As you always stand by the things you are wrong on, I am not surprised you are doing so here either. I held up my end. You can comment on the mass shootings and black murder rates and dispute my 90% number and hold up your end. I will assume we are in agreement on the ‘meat’ section of my argument as you were not able to offer any rebuttal.

  45. I said “Not all assassinations are successful. Reagan and Ford lived also.”

    Yes I know what you said and if you reread my response I said you’re in need of remedial English. There is no such thing as an unsuccessful assassination. There is only an unsuccessful assassination ATTEMPT.

  46. I’m torn on some points here.
    One is that the list provided is clearly disputable. The second is whether party affiliation is in fact a credible indicator of anything regarding eventual commission crimes.
    Third is I think (and am pretty sure I’ve seen them) a list could easily be made showing people of certain political affiliations being smart,compassionate,artistic etc etc.

  47. Alfie you’ve hit on exactly why I ignored the “meat” of Noah’s post. Misapplied stats, anecdotal evidence, much of which is flawed. Noah vomits this out in a huge list and expects the list to be tackled item by item when the entire premise is shaky.

    People are assholes. It’s in the DNA. Throughout history there have been conservative assholes and lib assholes. Any argument built on either side being responsible for the current mess is a nonstarter.

  48. Politically speaking I believe platforms cause issues. Republicans get the rap for it but it was liberals who did irreparable harm to the public mental health regime.

  49. I think we can all agree it was Falwell’s followers.

    Sorry. It’s in my DNA.

    But R you need to understand that it’s hard not to do what Noah did when the left and the very left dominated media lay blame for any violent act on the right every time it occurs. It’s in your DNA I suppose.

  50. “There you go again in denial of changes in party ideology.” – R

    In a weird way, the Democratic Party hasn’t changed at all. It is still absolutely race obsessed.

    I wrote my college thesis on a riot that took place in Detroit back in 1863.

    Not to be confused with some of the draft riots of the time, this one was a race riot.

    A bar tender in a hang out famous for Democrats was accused of raping two teen age girls.

    The Democratic Press “turned” this guy into a black dude. Apparently he was a strange brew of Portuguese, Indian, white… Total mutt. Plus, he identified as white and Dem.

    But they had their narrative. Sound familiar?

    They whipped up Detroit into a bloody riot despite the fact the guy was also later found completely innocent.

    Flash forward, and its the same thing today.

    Zimmerman is a “white Hispanic”.

    Divide. Divide. Divide. Race. Race. Race.

  51. But R you need to understand that it’s hard not to do what Noah did when the left and the very left dominated media lay blame for any violent act on the right every time it occurs.

    I know Tex hates Walter Cronkite but I swear there was a time when news was news and commentary was commentary. That’s my recollection from my childhood.

    Hell, even when Bob Scheffer (sp) was hosting Face the Nation, when he gave commentary, it said “commentary” at the bottom of the screen.

    Now Huffpost turns EVERY Trump story into an op-Ed by posting a disclaimer at the end calling him a bigot. That’s irresponsible journalism.

    Anyway, your comment reminded me of how far we’ve fallen.

  52. R, when do you want to talk about the ransom payment to Iran?

    You won’t like my answer. I think they have a credible explanation. It may be a lie but it’s a good lie.

  53. I’m not following this Noah-Rutherford thing too closely but I read an article recently that more than twice the national average of gun murders occur in large metro areas. Obama won all but Salt Lake City and one or two others.

    Criminals are the Democrats new constituency.

    The Democrat Party is the same as it ever was.

  54. In a weird way, the Democratic Party hasn’t changed at all. It is still absolutely race obsessed.

    It’s actually an interesting point. I’d counter our country has always been race obsessed with differing factions taking different stands at different times, almost always to gain political advantage of one kind or another.

    The sad part is that it always comes down to fighting over the kids, where blacks are the kids. Our history would be different if blacks had taken their future into their own hands. I don’t why they didn’t.

    I’ve repeated here many times part of the black problem is they want whites to love them. White opinion matters. I’m not sure that’s true of any other minority. Jews tell whites to fuck off. So do Koreans and Indians and Pakistani’s. You know how many hotel franchises are owned by Indians? These groups make their own way in America and take the white man’s money. They don’t need love. They got the Benjamin’s. And what do blacks do? Sing, dance and play sports to entertain the white man and be accepted. Very fucked up.

    Buy a few hotels motherfucker!!!

  55. “I’ve repeated here many times part of the black problem is they want whites to love them. White opinion matters.”

    That’s what happens when you’ve created a culture of total dependence in exchange for political power, and wounded feelings are rewarded. Must be those conservatives. 😆

  56. “You won’t like my answer. I think they have a credible explanation. It may be a lie but it’s a good lie.”

    You’re right. I won’t.

    Did you see Earnest twisting in the wind when cornered on whether the hostages would’ve been released without the payment.

  57. Did you see Earnest twisting in the wind when cornered on whether the hostages would’ve been released without the payment.

    No I didn’t see that but I absolutely love Josh Earnest. What a great name for a press secretary!

    I’ve seen a couple of other talking heads have trouble answering the question. 😐

  58. A Breaking Bad pallet of small bills.

    Only a moron fan boy believes this wasn’t a ransom.

    Obama thinks he’s being coy. We owed them that debt from the negotiations but gained the release of the Americans by paying back said debt via small billllz. So that makes it not a ransom? Hezbollah has some new toys.

    The excuse that Iran and America had no banking relationship so small bills were required is fucking laughable.

    As usual, the pathetic lie will be proven to be a lie, the administration will laugh about it, Rutherford will forget about it and 80% of this country won’t care.

  59. Sorry Rabbit but I find no means to transfer funds very credible. Also, whether the debt dates back to the Shah can easily be fact checked.

    All that said, if the Iranians said “hey, you know that money you owe us? Pay it now and you’ve got your hostages”, that certainly sounds like a ransom type transaction. That’s why I won’t die on this hill fighting this battle.

  60. “Sorry Rabbit but I find no means to transfer funds very credible.”

    Laughable.

    “Also, whether the debt dates back to the Shah can easily be fact checked.”

    Never said it wasn’t. Immaterial.

    “I’ve got one thing that puzzles me. The story first broke in January. Why are we hearing it again now?”

    I see your lapping up Obama smokescreen BS. It’s a big deal because we found out it was small bills on a fucking pallet.

  61. Worthy of note on the ransom payment to Iran. One of the hostages reported that they were made to wait on the plane the was to deliver them until a cargo plane from the US arrived and they told him if the plane did not arrive that he would never be released.

    The Hague ruled that Iran owed victims of terrorist attacks both done by and supported by Iran to the tune of $43 billion dollars going back as far as Beirut. That $400 million should have been a down payment to the US citizens families that Iran murdered.

  62. “All that said, if the Iranians said “hey, you know that money you owe us? Pay it now and you’ve got your hostages”, that certainly sounds like a ransom type transaction.”

    Then which credible version is it? Obama denies a quid pro quo. The Justice Department objected to the timing and method of payment for the obvious reasons — and the State Department did it anyway.

    The purpose behind not paying ransom is defeated because it looks like and signals our willingness to engage in a quid pro quo for hostages.

    This whole thing Obama said was completely “transparent” and you say is “credible” is just fucking ridiculous. God, look at the angry and defiant tone from the transparent and credible administration — accidentally exposed and totally played by Iran.

    The only thing that’s credible is that Obama and Kerry are fucking idiots.

    Where’s James Taylor when you need him?

    Fucking. Idiots.

  63. The IUSCT is the root of the $400 m which will grow to something like a total of $1.3 B.
    How it was payed and played by some is unfortunate but it wasn’t a ransom. From IUSCT rulings the US actually has won more than they lost.
    The $43 B mentioned is an exercise in futility and not related to this issue at all. If one were to seriously believe that money is due they should be prepared to allow the Iranians to assess fines upon the USA with the latter being more likely to actually collect since the USA has obviously violated the Algiers Accords more so than the actions of Iran on the world stage. Also if Iran were to pay $43 B to US “victims” what is to stop the world citizenry from suing the US taxpayer?

  64. Yeah, it doesn’t even matter if it was a ransom at this point. The world thinks it was. People will be kidnapped because of this.

    Not to mention the death and carnage unmarked bills will cause. My favorite lie is when the administration tells us what Iran is doing with the money, as if we can trace it.

  65. “Yeah, it doesn’t even matter if it was a ransom at this point. The world thinks it was. People will be kidnapped because of this.”

    Precisely.

    And if it was a quid pro quo in timing and manner, it was fucking ransom. I don’t care if the payment itself was part of a prior deal. They imposed conditions to secure release, and we complied. That’s ransom.

  66. Alfie, you’re not cross dressing and tagging those evil Trump signs, are you? 😈

    http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/08/06/donald-trump-sign-vandalism-andover-susan-bryant/

    Just teasin’…

    That’s one of the things I notice about most Dimocrats these days. Virtually all of them I read or meet anymore, in addition to being uninformed lemmings and innumerate dopes, are truly manic – unstable as hell.

    Talking to them, you correct them about a million things they short circuit like Corrupt Hillary, and they practically foam at the mouth like rabid dogs. And the women are the absolute worst.

  67. One thing is for sure, if their is a controversy, Obama is always, ALWAYS, lying.

    And, in the heat of it all, Rutherford is always, ALWAYS carrying water for them.

    Like clock work, lie becomes indisputable…. Rutherford will concede…. But carry water for the the next lie.

    Over and over and over again.

    Can you imagine being holed up in an apartment and being bombarded by a channel that has been proven to be a propaganda medium?

  68. DR, are you familiar with the book “Minds on Fire” by Mark C. Carnes and/or the teaching method called “Reacting”?

  69. The IUSCT is the root of the $400 m which will grow to something like a total of $1.3 B.

    I can’t say I fully understand Alfie’s comment but I have heard we got off easy on the 400M. There should have been a shitload of interest tacked onto that which we did NOT pay.

  70. I can’t say I fully understand Alfie’s comment but I have heard we got off easy on the 400M. There should have been a shitload of interest tacked onto that which we did NOT pay.

    I’m sure that will be of great comfort to the next kidnapped victim. 😯 If they’d only paid interest!!!!

  71. DR, in retrospect, the book is about using the method in higher education, but I’m sure there are others on the topic for all levels.

    The whole thing is about using games and extended role play as a teaching method. Not like 1 or 2 classes of it, but like weeks of immersion into particular roles. It’s got a lot of pros and cons, but the students seem to really get into it (sometimes). It seems especially geared for History (which is not what I teach), but I understand it can be applied to other subjects.

    I’m just asking around trying to get some practical information on it for my own professional development.

  72. As they sponsor terrorism as far as I am concerned that debt is null and void. They owe the world far more than that paltry $400 million. This administration has endangered every American overseas because they now know we will pay.

  73. Regarding Poolman’s HRC murderer video – when anyone within 6 degrees of separation from HRC dies, she killed them. Ridiculous. Promoting that foolishness will help get her elected.

  74. But you don’t understand, Iran claimed there was $7-8 billion in interest owed. So by agreeing to pay the bargain basement reduced amount of $1.7 billion, Obama saved us billions!!!!!

    Coincidentally, Obama worked such a sweetheart deal, Iran voluntarily handed over 4 hostages because of their strong desire to exercise the new super-awesome diplomatic relations that Obama negotiated for us as well.

    And people question what happened here? Sheesh. Pass the awesome sauce!

  75. I’ve watched with amusement as some here try to tar me with the latest Obamagate. I said nothing more than that the lie is a believable lie in my opinion. I also said this would never be a hill I’d die fighting on. If nothing else, the optics stink to high heaven and send a signal that we will trade for hostages.

    Question for the bar: which is worse, this trade or the trade we did for Bergdahl?

  76. Terrorism is a lot like beauty in that it’s in the eye of the beholder.

    Iran did in fact fine the US $50 B last year,I doubt we’ll pay.

    Arbitration is a bitch but for good or bad we entered into the Accords and for good or bad both sides have violated them. Amazingly both sides have stayed with the IUSCT.

    Much like I find service members to be casualties as opposed to victims I am pressed to believe at the state level between the USA and Iran the word hostages is appropriate.

    Perhaps Americans should go even further than the State Departments advisory and just stay the fuck out!

  77. “Any nation who commits an act of terror forfeits any debts owed to them.”

    “aid terrorism*”

    Then we are owed nothing, either, as arming terrorists in Syria would certainly count as aid.

  78. @ Rutherford the Reagan Administration entered into the Algiers Accords with Iran as a means to settle debts and lawsuits since normal relations were out of the question. Its called the Algiers Accords because Algeria interceded and acted as the “peace makers” as it were. The Accords created a body that would handle the arbitration. That body is called the Iran-United States Claims Tribunal. There were thousands of claims filed.
    The $400 million is reported as being tied to deposits made by the Shah’s government for weapons purchases.
    The USA won most of the claims in the first 20 years. To date the US has been awarded over $2bn while Iran is over 1.

  79. Thanks Alfie for the background.

    This kind of debt payment schedule means debts incurred to a friendly regime (the Shah) end up being owed to an unfriendly successor. That’s kinda fucked up.

    On a side note, I think one of the things we take for granted is the stability of our government. My mom told me that when Kennedy was shot she feared for the future of the country. She was only about 6 when FDR passed so I guess she didn’t have a feel for these transitions.

    We have in large part a huge debt to pay to John Tyler. Upon Harrison’s death many wanted to call Tyler “acting president” and he would have none of it. “The constitution says I’m President and fuck you, Sir”.

    Since then every transition from vp to POTUS due to death or resignation has gone smooth as silk.

  80. I agree Obama is aiding terrorists.

    My eye beholds the following.

    On November 4, 1979, 500 Iranians stormed the American Embassy and took 90 employees and visitors captive for 444 days. debt null and void on this issue alone.

    In July 2012, The Times of India reported that New Delhi police have concluded that terrorists belonging to a branch of Iran’s military, the Iranian Revolutionary Guards, were responsible for an attack on 13 February 2012

    Iran supplies political support and weapons to Hamas, an organization classified by Israel, the United States, Canada, the European Union, Egypt, Australia and Japan as a terrorist organization. Mahmoud Abbas, President of the Palestinian National Authority, has said “Hamas is funded by Iran. It claims it is financed by donations, but the donations are nothing like what it receives from Iran”. From 2000 to 2004, Hamas was responsible for killing nearly 400 Israelis and wounding more than 2,000 in 425 attacks, according to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs. From 2001 through May 2008, Hamas launched more than 3,000 Qassam rockets and 2,500 mortar attacks into Israel.

    During the 1980s and 1990s, a wave of kidnappings, bombings, and assassinations of Western targets, particularly American and Israeli, occurred in Lebanon and other countries. The attacks, attributed to Hezbollah, have included:

    *The 1982-1983 Tyre headquarters bombings
    *The blowing up of a van filled with explosives in front of the U.S. embassy in Beirut killing 58 Americans and Lebanese in 1983.
    *The 1983 Beirut barracks bombing of the U.S. Marine and French 'Drakkar' barracks which killed 241 American and 58 French peacekeepers. On May 30, 2003, a U.S. federal judge ruled that Hezbollah carried out the attack at the direction of the Iranian government.
    *The 1983 Kuwait bombings in collaboration with the Iraqi Dawa Party.
    *The 1984 United States embassy annex bombing, killing 24 people.
    *The hijacking of TWA flight 847 holding the 39 Americans on board hostage for weeks in 1985 and murder of one U.S. Navy sailor
    *The Lebanon hostage crisis from 1982 to 1992.
    *According to Middle East analyst James Philips, an August 1989 bombing in London was a failed Hezbollah assassination attempt on Indian-born British author Salman Rushdie, after the Iranian government put a $2.5 million bounty on his head over the novel The Satanic Verses. Iranian officials have repeatedly called for Rushdie's death as recently as 2005.
    *The bombing of the Israeli Embassy in Argentina killing twenty-nine people in 1992. Hezbollah operatives boasted of involvement.
    *The bombing of a Jewish community center in Argentina killing 95 people in 1994. Hezbollah claimed responsibility.
    *The 1994 AC Flight 901 attack, killing 21 people, in Panama. Hezbollah claimed responsibility.
    *The 1996 Khobar Towers bombing, killing 19 US servicemen. On December 22, 2006, federal judge Royce C. Lamberth ruled that Iran was responsible for the attack, stating "The totality of the evidence at trial...firmly establishes that the Khobar Towers bombing was planned, funded, and sponsored by senior leadership in the government of the Islamic Republic of Iran. The defendants' conduct in facilitating, financing, and providing material support to bring about this attack was intentional, extreme, and outrageous."
    *The 2012 Burgas bus bombing, killing 6, in Bulgaria.
    
  81. So Noah, what do we do about our very intimate relationship with Saudi Arabia, a country that funds terrorism on a regular basis and was the home of most of the men who flew planes into our buildings? I’m just curious if you hold them to the same standard as Iran.

  82. I am not a progressive Rutherford. I do not subscribe to situational ethics/morality where what I believe depends on how it benefits me at the time. Nor do I use unrelated situations as an excuse to do or excuse wrong by others. I am happy to apply that standard across the board. It should always be treason to provide material assistance to aid terrorism.

  83. 3 things for you to look up Noah before you proceed with your edicts:

    Irgun
    Lavon Affair
    USS Liberty

    Then let’s talk about material assistance.

  84. I am happy to apply that standard across the board. It should always be treason to provide material assistance to aid terrorism.

    Well that warms the cockles of my heart. To borrow Reagan’s knee slapper, let bombing of Saudi Arabia commence immediately. 😊

  85. If you are saying those now dead people is pure coincidence, Rutherford, then you have far greater an imagination than I could ever hope to obtain. If you dare, study the circumstances in each case, then see if you can still so easily brush it all off. Like that non existing handicap sign. And read up on mob tactics, would you? And Alinsky. And Machiavelli. And non conventional warfare.

    Every day we end up back at the same place on that same yellow brick road.
    Every day.

  86. As for Huck’s role play thing, why not? Acting is probably a sure fire career field, as long government can afford to spend its resources to budget practicing terror drills. We may as well teach these kids how to pretend with realism so they can always get into politics or pulpits.

  87. A trifecta! Rutherford, you don’t know it, but you hit the jackpot. If you played it right, you wouldn’t have to work another day in your life. 😆

  88. Pools there’s a difference between finding the Clinton machine capable of murder and believing it actually happened every time the conspiracy nuts speak up.

    If we want to pursue a more realistic fantasy, I’m actually surprised no one in the GOP has staged an unfortunate accident for the Donald. There are those who say he represents an existential threat to the party.

    Then again, knocking him off would complete our transition to a banana republic.

  89. Since a potentially enjoyable bit o’thread has gone the way of the Jew Bomb I have to ask….
    What’s the better sandwich between a french dip and a BLT? They are the top two “if I was living on a deserted island with a deli I’d want “

  90. Well, as usual the muslims were being bombed to bits with few to stand up for them. Since pointing out the obvious is verbotten, we aren’t really trying to get at any truth.

    How many muslims are in our government as compared to how many jews? I am talking all of it. We can include married to muslims and married to jews if you would like.

    And another cool exercise would be to compare that to our population’s demographic. We could probably do the same throughout most of the western world. You want chips or a pickle?

  91. It would have to be homegrown tomatoes, too. I have gotten spoiled. But then, I do love a good french dip. Hard choice. Good thing I already ate.

  92. Ah… We have reached the point of the thread where Rutherford refers to foolman with the warm and fuzzy “pools” nick name. Of course 15 pooolman posts that nobody reads will be blasted out.

    Hey “pools”… Did you see that whte truck today? They are getting worse, aren’t they.

  93. For some very strange reason the last time I typed “Pools” I had this sixth sense that I would get blasted for it by someone. That’s friggin eerie.

    So you’re called DR and Rabbit. Would you feel more warm and fuzzy if I called you Dead? Or maybe Deddy? Kinda like Muffy, just deader.

  94. A BLT is delicious but is ultimately a chick sandwich.

    A French Dip sticks to the ribs plus it necessitates a cup of onion soup.

    You people need to be led.

  95. You have not said why in spite of Iran’s record why you feel we should have paid Iran in foreign currency, small denominations so they are untraceable in the dead of night in an unmarked cargo plane R?

  96. “A French Dip sticks to the ribs plus it necessitates a cup of onion soup.”

    Except with a real french dip, you’re not the one doing the dipping. The roll is dipped before the sandwich is made. And onion soup isn’t involved.

  97. Speaking of Pools, I bought some “organic” tomatoes at the grocery store for $2.99 a pound that tasted like cardboard. No wonder these envirofascists are angry. Everything they put in their mouth tastes like chit.

  98. “You people need to be led.”

    LOL.

    Overcooked prime rib ain’t that great.

    Rare roast beef. . . boom.

    I thought we had the great sub samich debate here not all that long ago. Too much trash talking Jimmy Johns and hyping Jersey Mike’s. A real samich needs sweet peppers and always comes from a mom & pop joint. . When I went back home for a visit last summer I hit up the old joint. Just like I remembered.

    The roll makes the samich. If you put it on a shiity roll, you need that shitty onion mix soup to dip it in so you don’t choke to death on that dried out bitch.

  99. That Michael Phelps is more dolphin than human, when he’s not smokin’ weed. I thought that Fucque the Frenchie was going to swim Phelps down in that relay, and Phelps came off that wall like he had been shot out of an underwater cannon.

    The guy is some kind of swimmer.

  100. Jimmy Johns and hyping Jersey Mike’s.

    I personally thought Potbellies was better than either. Eat that. :smile:. But a man’s sandwich is either barbeque pork rib sandwich from Elmers (it be bad), or a real Philly Cheesesteak.

  101. Screw the Lettuce, double up the bacon, and give me a homegrown tomato sandwich on good bread with some horseradish mustard. A good “kosher” sandwich for a Goy. 😛

  102. When I went back home for a visit last summer I hit up the old joint. Just like I remembered.

    Man I envy you. My fav spot as a kid was a hole in the wall Mexican restaurant in uptown Manhattan called Xotchles (pronounced Sotchles). Wasn’t even out of college before it got turned into a Chinese restaurant. No going back for me. But at least the last time I was there with my family and college roommate we saw Woody Allen, Mia Farrow and Tony Roberts. My roommate’s eyes nearly popped out of his head.

  103. The only thing that really interests me in the Olympics is track & field (the men’s sprints) and the relays. But I’ll tell you what is fun to watch – beach volleyball. Looks like it would be fun to play too.

  104. Rutherford, I have noticed that more black girls/women are competing in gymnastics. I think the US team has 2 this time. Do you have any thoughts on what this might be attributed to? Is it their being more accepted in the sport than in the past? Increased athleticism? More black girls starting early and inevitably moving up? Something else?

  105. I’ve had the Phillip’s French Dip, it was great. I went with a friend who lives in the area (I don’t) and he told me about the history. It’s near Dodger’s Stadium and on game days it’s not unusual for the line to go out the door.

  106. On a more serious note, anyone see the headlines and accompanying picture at Drudge with Shrew Clinton having to be helped up the steps?

    I think both Clintons may be in seriously poor health. I thought Slick sounded like he had early dementia in a speech a few months ago. As to the Harpy, I have no doubt in my mind she’s got some serious neurological problems.

  107. Huck, I’ve only been “aware” of the sport for the past 7 or so years that my daughter has been involved so I have no feel for historical trends. Before my daughter started my last memory of gymnastics was Keri Strugg and the amazing vault she did injuring her foot.

    By casual observation I’m noticing about two black girls per level with levels having anywhere from 5 to 10 girls roughly.

    Sociologically gymnastics is interesting because it is at once a team sport and an individual one. If by chance the team ostracizes you racially (which I’ve never seen, to be honest) you can always say fuck you and keep scoring 9+. You don’t NEED them.

    My wife and I had a chuckle the other day. Back in CT (far more racist than IL quite frankly) one of the coach’s daughters told my kid “black girls can’t do gymnastics”. We haven’t seen the little snot’s name on any lists since then while my kid is consistently state vault champ and this year regional bars champ.

    So I guess I’m saying the acceptance that might be vital to a baseball, football, hockey or soccer team isn’t as vital in gymnastics. You just do yo thang and more often than not your teammates will respect you for it.

  108. We have potbellies out here, showed up a couple years ago. I don’t need one so I haven’t tried it. 🙂

    I dated a girl in new jersey on the gymnastics team in hs. She was ranked high in the state. Girl was a SERIOUS speed freak.

  109. “On a more serious note. . . ”

    Nothin’ more serious than resolving the great sandwich debate, especially since DR has emasculated the BLT crowd.

  110. I don’t understand the insistence to view Iran as one playing a unique game. Not that I support the Tehran regimes policies the examples given to highlight their terrorism links are either false or clear acts of war very similar to actions routinely engaged by other nations. Just because we’re writing the history books and deciding what terror is or isn’t for our own convenience doesn’t make it truth.

  111. The payment which was one we were obligated to undertake is thoroughly complicated by the web of sanctions which fall into two main groups,nuclear and terror. The US has agreed to easing of sanctions but have another layer preventing other countries from doing what they are legally allowed to do. This is the basis of the idiots over @ NRO to view the Administrations actions as violations of federal law. The point they are missing is that the USA is essentially in violation of international law and agreements it is bound by.
    For those that don’t like watching America getting punked I’d advise you to strap in because we’re in for some major bitch slaps.
    The world is moving in many directions and in many cases with or without the USA. We would be wise to get engaged and wake up to hard realities.

  112. I dont think we are deciding what terrorism is, I think that is common sense. Blowing up innocent people, cutting off their heads, plowing through groups of people with a truck, assassinating police officers, all terrorism, not because we say so but because that is exactly what it is.

  113. It is a historically backed fact that definitions are fluid. What you call a terrorist others call a patriot,freedom fighter or rebel. In US History those who wore the label of patriot,rebel or freedom fighter proudly were justifiably deemed terrorists,rabble and mercenaries by others. A unipolar viewpoint is unbelievably blinding.

  114. The rant of a Basij leader is one incident to be expected. The Iranian media also has statements from actual political leaders stressing the payment was absolutely a debt payment due under IUSCT and further stressed the nuclear talks had nothing to do with it. The latter part actually being a serious matter amongst Iranians including the very dangerous mullah humps that share the GOP desire to torpedo the JCPOA.

  115. “Nothin’ more serious than resolving the great sandwich debate, especially since DR has emasculated the BLT crowd.”

    I think DR now understands the error of his position and that anything with bacon will always beat anything without it.

    Plus, if we don’t eat pork, the terrorists win….

  116. Anyone who votes for Hillary after last week is stupid or sleazy or both.

    1) Hillary lied to the American people about sending or receiving classified material.
    2) Hillary and Comey both say that she did not lie to the FBI.
    3) Hillary said that she told the American people the same thing she told the FBI. (in her poor-excuse-for-journalism presser last week)

  117. Plus, if we don’t eat pork, the terrorists win….
    and
    Nothin’ more serious than resolving the great sandwich debate, especially since DR has emasculated the BLT crowd.
    honestly gave me a great set of laughs. Perhaps we should get involved in comedy instead of commentary because this discussion was gold…

  118. It may have been said already (or close it it) but if the perception is that the payment to Iran was ransom then the whole point of not paying ransom to enemies is moot.

  119. Between the two specials I have to go with BTL but what I wouldn’t give for a lobster roll right about now…

  120. “3) Hillary said that she told the American people the same thing she told the FBI. (in her poor-excuse-for-journalism presser last week)”

    This is easily enough confirmed. We just have to check the FBI transcripts.

    Oh wait….

  121. I don’t know why folks are puzzled by the HRC Fox interview and subsequent BS press conference. Pundits say she’s giving lawyerly answers. Dollars to donuts HER LAWYERS are telling her exactly what to say since she is still under threat of indictment for lying to Congress. She’s going to continue to stick to the lie in public until she is 100% sure she is not going to jail.

  122. It’s wild how times have changed. There was an unspoken agreement that the press would not show FDR’s wheelchair and many Americans had no idea he had polio and wore heavy leg braces. Fast forward to today and Hillary struggling up the stairs gets a conjecture filled post on Drudge. I’m not saying Hillary’s health is a nothingburger. I’m just making an observation about the change in media coverage.

  123. She really stepped in it there. Watch her begin to add the word “knowingly” or something similar to her changing story.

    I was convinced she was ill too with all that coughing but I knew a kid who coughed for 11 weeks straight in class and it was allergies. It was the same sounding cough.

    Have they debunked the tongue hole conspiracy theory?

  124. Nobody is “puzzled” by it. We’re pissed. The lack of FBI transcripts to confirm or refute her claim is just another bit of proof that she was never in any danger of seeing any trouble over this.

    It’s all been bullshit.

  125. She also suffers from some kind of emotional disorder driven I think by the lifelong lying. No, really. Her reactions to things like questions or slightly humorous remarks or balloons come off looking like seizures. So over the top and mismatched between reality and her feelings about it.

    Sometimes I think the cackling is pure joy that some dummy threw her a life vest like Bernie did with the damb emails. She rightly regards those things as a temporary respite from having to refashion a previous lie that’s fraying.

  126. “It may have been said already…”

    Yeah I guess it was alright – sorry guys. That’s what comes from reading the thread backwards. Not to mention all that scrolling past the potter’s field.

  127. “It is a historically backed fact that definitions are fluid.”

    Raping someone always makes you a rapist.
    Rape is always immoral.
    Murdering someone always makes you a murderer.
    Murder is always immoral.
    Having sexual relations with children always makes you a pedophile.
    Having sexual relations with children is always immoral.
    Killing random people for political reasons is always immoral.
    Killing random people for political reasons will always make you a terrorists.

    Iran says it was a ransom.
    The man held hostage said they were not going to be released until the cargo plane with the ransom money arrived.
    It was done in secret. It was done the same time as the hostage release. If it walks like a duck….

  128. Noah, Alfie’s point, which I completely agree with, is that throughout history those things have been done by people and groups that others have labelled freedom fighters and heroes. It often, although not in every case, becomes a matter of perspective.

    The North talked about nominating General Sherman for president after the war. Go down South, even today, and ask someone what they think about Sherman. It’s very possible you will incur bodily injury.

    The same can apply to many Israel’s founding fathers–as well as many of our own founding fathers. And certainly the founding fathers of many countries, be they friend or foe. Even after Israel became a state, they supported, both financially and with arms, Hamas, because they saw them as a counter to the PLO and felt Islamists could be easily controlled. We did the same with groups we now oppose.

    And even today, the US does those things and supports others who do them. We assassinated OBL without due process. And we infringed on the sovereignty of another state to do it. One can call it “justice”, while others might apply your definition above, and call it “terrorism”. And that certainly isn’t exclusive to the Obama administration.

    Definitions are indeed fluid, and they depend on who is giving them and when they are being given. If you want to issue across-the-board definitions, then you need to be prepared to give across-the-board applications of them. And in doing so, you’ll need to recognize that we throw some heavy stones from a house made of thin glass.

  129. Show me a fluid moment in history where this occurred and the people doing it were viewed in a positive light.

    You’re fighting a futile fight Noah. ISIL brutality is ADMIRED by followers of ISIL. PERIOD. It’s as simple as that. This universal morality you cling to does not exist.

    Bottom line: we protect ourselves and those dear to us. Morality can be discussed by the historians.

  130. I fully understand large parts of the left and hundreds of millions of people of Islam view child rape as a protected right and a positive. What part of the civilized world in any time period believes it to be moral? FYI, Cultural Relativism is a false theory no matter how hard you try and say it is not.

  131. I do not believe I have. I replied to Rutherford’s response.

    “ISIL brutality is ADMIRED by followers of ISIL. PERIOD. It’s as simple as that. This universal morality you cling to does not exist.”

    He is making the claim that cultural relativism is true when clearly it is not.

  132. Yes…you have moved the goalposts.

    Because we were talking about the fluidity of defining terrorism, not child rape. And now that we’ve backed you into a corner, that seems to be the only thing you want to discuss about it.

    Telling.

  133. I’m speaking on the matter that you brought up Iran and terrorism and have now switched to ISIL and jihadists. The two are not in the same realm.

  134. Cultural relativism is a double edged sword and far from a false theory. Keep in mind it was Judeo-Christians who:
    1. Used concentration camps in Europe,South Africa and the Philippines.
    2. Forcibly transplanted fully functioning cultures and even went as far as outlawing those cultures.
    3. Dictated international laws over the express will and sovereignty of independent nations.
    4. Interceded upon multiple nations civil war so as to exert national interests.
    Those are just a handful that could be supplemented by the bucketload. I’d be very wary of dismissing cultural relativism and assuming moral superiority.

  135. If I have struck a little too close to home we can certainly pick a different immoral act of your choice. Terrorism encompasses a lot of different acts to include terrorizing the population in many different ways from killing, raping, beating, torture, mutilation..ect. If you care to defend Rutherford’s statement and prove Cultural Relativism to be true.

  136. “Cultural relativism is a double edged sword and far from a false theory.”

    Your confusion is then understandable. The vast majority of philosophers (above 95%) will tell you that as written, Cultural Relativism is indeed false. I attempted for 4 semesters to come up with a tweaked version of CR to make it true and for 2 years my peers shot it down. It is not opinion or theory it is false, it is conclusively false.

    I like to use Gert’s Rules for what is moral. It takes out religion and really takes us down to the most very basic levels of morality.

    Common morality is a framework that, within limits, allows different persons to fill in their own view about:
    1. The scope of morality.
    2. The rankings of the relevant harms and benefits.
    3. The harmful and beneficial consequences of everyone knowing that a given kind of violation is allowed and that it is not allowed.
    4 The interpretation of the rules.

    When a rational person incorporates their views on these matters into the common moral framework, the moral system will yield those moral decisions and judgments that the person accepts, at least after reflection.’ If it does not, then they will have been shown wrong and their description of morality will have to be revised again.

    Do not kill.
    Do not cause pain.
    Do not disable.
    Do not deprive of freedom.
    Do not deprive of pleasure.
    Do not deceive.
    Keep your promises.
    Do not cheat.
    Obey the law.
    Do your duty.

    So again Rutherford’s statement:
    “ISIL brutality is ADMIRED by followers of ISIL. PERIOD. It’s as simple as that. This universal morality you cling to does not exist.”

    According to Rutherford, what is right or wrong is decided by what ISIS society says is wrong. That because they deem these acts as being acceptable, they are. This reasoning is faulty. What they have actually done is found an immoral act to be acceptable in their view, they have not validated the act as being moral.

  137. Again, you are moving the goalposts. This issue isn’t whether cultural relativism is “true”, but that it exists.

    Do you deny that things are seen as acceptable in one culture and unacceptable in another? Or do you need to take another class?

  138. Yeah Noah I’ve got 20 third world refugees in my basement and you’re really cutting into my rape and torture time😕
    Iran.
    US History
    Any of the four things I mentioned or what Huck offered.
    Cultural relativism doesn’t exist in a vacuum it is right there sprouting out of everyone because it’s basically the first lie self professed moral people tell themselves.
    This discussion was initiated as a discussion of the “one mans terrorist vs another’s freedom fighter thing”. You are the one trying to dodge the original point.
    I don’t believe morality truly exists and definitely doesn’t have a place sanitising the sin of war. Bottom line the race,creed or color of the guy that burns down your village,cuts off your wife’s tits or takes all your food is as unimportant as it is sadly universal.

  139. Do not kill.
    Do not cause pain.
    Do not disable.
    Do not deprive of freedom.
    Do not deprive of pleasure.
    Do not deceive.
    Keep your promises.
    Do not cheat.
    Obey the law.
    Do your duty.

    Is this list a joke?

    Are you against the death penalty?
    Are you against waterboarding terrorists?
    Are you against the criminal justice system, in general?
    Are you in favor of following laws you think are unjust?
    What if doing your “duty” requires you to do one or more from that list?

    If you didn’t think about any of those things in 4 years of pondering this, then you need to just stop.

  140. Add White Man’s Burden and Manifest Destiny…or, in other words, the ideals that literally shaped the boundaries of this country.

    I’d advise spending the next 4 years reading a lot of books. It’s pretty obvious you’ve wasted the last 4.

  141. Hadn’t seen your latest. Obviously I find it utter nonsense and I sympathize with you that your own country is such an utter failure when applied to your metrics.

  142. Do not kill.

    Noah, have you defined that as a moral absolute? You are saying no “cultural relativism” changes that universal moral law: do not kill.

    So let me ask you. Do you not defend the murder of millions of Japanese during WWII? (“Oh they attacked us first”) — ok how about our battles in the European theater where neither Hitler nor Mussolini to my knowledge threatened to invade the USA? How many did we kill in the European theater? Do you believe in a just war? If you can condone any of these killings, clearly your “do not kill” is situational even if we don’t call it culturally relativistic.

  143. According to Rutherford, what is right or wrong is decided by what ISIS society says is wrong. That because they deem these acts as being acceptable, they are. This reasoning is faulty. What they have actually done is found an immoral act to be acceptable in their view, they have not validated the act as being moral.

    No, your reasoning is faulty. “That because they deem these acts as being acceptable, they are, TO THEM!!!” I fixed it for you. Most actors act on their moral rationale. It does not need to be YOUR moral rationale.

    How many times have folks here told me to judge 19th century men by 19th century morality? How many slave holders considered themselves immoral? Shit, 21st century Tex has told me to love slavery for all the good it did the savage African.

    We all operate under moral relativism and moral rationalization. If you don’t see that you’re either in denial or just being stubborn.

  144. Ok so obviously Rutherford’s comment has been universally rejected as everyone is crying foul for me making mention of it.

    Is the list a joke? No. The problem is you cannot get out of the way of your own brilliance Huck. You came here deciding you are right on everything and now your only task is to convince us of your superiority. I am more than willing to work with you and your handicap.

    The educated person and the person capable of reasoning knows that this list of moral ‘laws’ applies to the person who is a first actor. For people who violate these moral rules, action is required to deal with those transgressions. We call these action consequences.

    “Do you deny that things are seen as acceptable in one culture and unacceptable in another? Or do you need to take another class?”

    The Nazi, Chinese, the Russians enjoyed this argument when they decided that it was acceptable to kill tens of millions of people. Islam is enjoying this argument now. I do not deny that they find this acceptable. Does that make CR true? Does that make these acts moral? No.

  145. It’s obvious that Noah’s rules of morality are based certain criteria being met. If they are met, then those rules can be broken, while still maintaining morality.

    It’s okay that we killed hundreds of thousands of Japanese because it saved American lives.
    It’s okay that we interned thousands of Japanese and American citizens because we were at war.
    It’s okay that we deprive freedom of movement with walls because we are a sovereign nation.
    It’s okay that we use psychological torture against our enemies because we’re at war.

    Of course, each culture sets its own criteria. That is what cultural relativism is all about.

  146. “You came here deciding you are right on everything and now your only task is to convince us of your superiority.”

    Yes. Unlike you and your classes and FB group. Oh please, great scholar and moderator. Show us the error of our ways and aid us with our handicap. Help me Obi-wan Knobi, you’re our only hope.

    “I do not deny that they find this acceptable.”

    Then you recognize the existence of cultural relativism. Nobody but you is using the word “true”.

    Game over. Thanks for playing.

  147. It is not immoral to defend one’s self or one’s allies. Our allies did not initiate aggression, Germany did. We did not initiate aggression, Japan did.

    The Japanese would have fought to the bitter end. The nuclear bombs were deemed to be the most moral method of ending the war. The way that the least amount of lives were to be lost. Given the options at hand, I believe dropping the mobs was the most moral of our available options.

  148. For whatever reason whenever I mention where I have gleaned my experience I seem to harm Huck’s delicate sensibilities. I will try to refrain from doing that in the future and ‘allow’ Huck his ‘safe space.’

    I have never denied the existence of cultural relativism. To exist does not mean that it is valid. It is a existing theory that has been soundly disproved.

  149. Ok so obviously Rutherford’s comment has been universally rejected as everyone is crying foul for me making mention of it.

    No I don’t think it has been universally rejected. Let’s try again Noah:

    ISIL brutality is ADMIRED by followers of ISIL. PERIOD. It’s as simple as that. This universal morality you cling to does not exist.

    I repeat — I don’t believe ISIL is being evil for shits and giggles. They think they have a moral imperative to do what they do. Do I share that moral imperative? No. Am I suggesting you should buy into it? No. But to deny that ISIL considers itself of the highest moral calling is to be delusional.

  150. “It is not immoral to defend one’s self or one’s allies. Our allies did not initiate aggression, Germany did. We did not initiate aggression, Japan did.”

    So the criteria for breaking the rules you stated were met, making those breaches morally acceptable.

    “I believe dropping the mobs was the most moral of our available options.”

    So do I. But you said yourself that killing is morally wrong. Deception is morally wrong. Denying freedom and hurting people is morally wrong.

    And that they are wrong, no matter what. That’s what you stated. There is no relativism. There is right and there is wrong. Period. That is your position.

    And it has taken you about 15 minutes to now go against your own position.

    “Consequences” are another word for criteria being met which makes breaking your own listed rules of morality morally acceptable.

  151. I believe dropping the mobs was the most moral of our available options.

    Ouch, you just killed your own argument. “The most moral” RELATIVE to what? Your very statement implies relativism. Dropping the bomb abided by no moral absolute. It was, at least in your opinion, the best answer relative to other alternatives. By the way, a shitload of Japanese folks would disagree with your assessment. Does that make them immoral?

  152. I have never denied the existence of cultural relativism. To exist does not mean that it is valid. It is a existing theory that has been soundly disproved.

    That is some philosophical bullshit dude.
    As for your other points regards the United States I assume then that you confess to being wrong about your earlier comments about Iran. They were after all only supporting their allies going against the aggression initiated by Israel. Right?

  153. Okay, look Noah. I’m going to level with you as much and as fairly as I can.

    I’m hitting you low, hard, and often because that’s what we do here. I’m clearly not the one who is in need of the safe space. If you can’t handle the barrage of your own words being thrown back at you, don’t cry and pout. Instead, maybe think about what you say a bit more and think about how it can be used against you. This is the foundation for debate and persuasion. It’s like a chess game. You need to think moves ahead. You’re not. And you’re playing against experienced players, here.

    I mock your mention of experience because those experiences are irrelevant to your arguments. Nobody gives a crap about where, when, and how you came to the conclusions you come to. Most of the people here have advanced degrees, several years of formal education, and children who have more life experience than you do. But we don’t feel the need to mention it in every debate, because it doesn’t matter to anyone we are debating. And it shouldn’t.

    Now I’ve spent far too much time here today, so with that I am done. And you can read into that whatever you like. But I do hope you take at least a moment to ponder what I’ve said in this particular comment, and sincerely have a great remainder of your day.

  154. “So the criteria for breaking the rules you stated were met, making those breaches morally acceptable.”

    “So do I. But you said yourself that killing is morally wrong. Deception is morally wrong. Denying freedom and hurting people is morally wrong.

    And that they are wrong, no matter what. That’s what you stated.”

    Reference my previous comment about first actors. Maybe this topic is a little too challenging for you as I qualified my statements.

  155. “I repeat — I don’t believe ISIL is being evil for shits and giggles. They think they have a moral imperative to do what they do. Do I share that moral imperative? No. Am I suggesting you should buy into it? No. But to deny that ISIL considers itself of the highest moral calling is to be delusional.”

    This is the problem with those on the radical left. They use things that no one ever said to create a false argument. I never denied that ISIS believes that what they are going is moral. I specifically said that they did and I responded to it. You would be a lot easier to deal with if you had even one ounce of integrity.

  156. “I’m hitting you low, hard, and often because that’s what we do here. I’m clearly not the one who is in need of the safe space. If you can’t handle the barrage of your own words being thrown back at you, don’t cry and pout.”

    Once again you misunderstand. I was not complaining for myself, I was doing it for you. I recognized your limitations and the delicate nature under which you are capable of being rational. I am stating that I will not exploit your handicap and allow you your safe space by choosing my words more carefully to accommodate your limitations. You are not capable of inflicting any damage on me and I encourage you to hit me with everything your limited nature allows you to throw at me. I encourage everyone else to do the same but if you decide to make it personal, I will sometimes answer in kind. #safespace

  157. “and children who have more life experience than you do. ”

    These kind of comments are telling. You have no possibly way to know what my life experiences are. I live 3 months of every year in Israel. While there I have visited Egypt, Jordan, Turkey, Greece, Italy, France, Spain, Belgium, UAE, Germany, Netherlands, UK, Ireland, and Scotland. I have been to 17 countries to date (the other 3 elude me at the moment.) I can reasonably converse in 3 languages and know enough to get in trouble in 2 more.

  158. Noah if you acknowledge that ISIL thinks they are moral then I haven’t the foggiest idea what point you are making.

    I see you also ignored my analysis of your phrase “most moral”.

    I’ll take that as surrender. 😉

  159. “Noah if you acknowledge that ISIL thinks they are moral then I haven’t the foggiest idea what point you are making”

    “The Nazi, Chinese, the Russians enjoyed this argument when they decided that it was acceptable to kill tens of millions of people. Islam is enjoying this argument now. I do not deny that they find this acceptable. Does that make CR true? Does that make these acts moral? No.”

    The Nazi considered genocide of the Jewish people to be moral. Just because the state decided it was does not make it a true statement. Genocide is always immoral, even if the culture does not recognize it as such.

  160. Shit, 21st century Tex has told me to love slavery for all the good it did the savage African.

    Poorly worded but the conclusion is basically correct.

    Tell me, Mr. Rutherford. Fair question. Do you believe your life was, is and will be, would have been better in Liberia?

    Because if you can’t, I rest my case.

  161. Do you believe your life was, is and will be, would have been better in Liberia?

    I’ll answer with a question. Would your life be better in the English/Irish/German (I don’t know your heritage) ghetto? Unless you’re descended from royalty which I greatly doubt.

    Your answer would be the same as mine I think.

  162. Wanna know why the human race is fucked?

    Hardball spends a full hour on Trump. Toward the end of the show, the scroll at the bottom of the screen says “63 dead in Pakistani hospital suicide bombing”. If we were fucking human, there’d be coverage. It would be breaking news instead of this drivel about Trump.

    If an American hospital suffered 63 casualties at the hands of a suicide bomber we wouldn’t be watching Chris Fucking Matthews. But they’re Pakistanis so we don’t give a flying fuck.

    There is no human race. We really don’t give a shit about each other.

  163. I’m glad Alfie and Huck were not our American forefathers, there would be no America as this nation rests on universal morality other wise known as natural law.

    Natural law is from God. Unlike speed limits on the local avenue, it’s a perfect idea that we strive for, hardly ever achieving. How hard it is to do the right thing for the right reason!

    And, now to truely nauseate you nihilist motherfuckers.. It sometimes takes a village to even come close!

    Some villages are fucked up beyond belief. Some strive for good! All fail!

    At least the latter is on the right path. That is (was?) the United States of America, my friends.

    Goodness is the perfect Ideal. It only sometimes imperfectly flickers here on Earth.

    But Goodness is a universal truth just as lasting as the concept of the Pythagorean theorem. And what a coincidence, some cultures use this geometry, others don’t. None ever replicate it as it is in the heavens.

  164. I think Paul answers that question, Alfie

    “For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another. (Romans 2:14–15)

  165. The right of self defense is called by Locke the first law of nature. Each person owns his or her own life and no other person has a right to take that life. A person may morally always resist aggressive attacks.

    “And hence it is that he who attempts to get another man into his absolute power does thereby put himself into a state of war with him; it being to be understood as a declaration of a design upon his life. For I have reason to conclude that he who would get me into his power without my consent would use me as he pleased when he had got me there, and destroy me too when he had a fancy to it; for nobody can desire to have me in his absolute power unless it be to compel me by force to that which is against the right of my freedom — i.e. make me a slave. To be free from such force is the only security of my preservation, and reason bids me look on him as an enemy to my preservation who would take away that freedom which is the fence to it; so that he who makes an attempt to enslave me thereby puts himself into a state of war with me. He that in the state of Nature would take away the freedom that belongs to any one in that state must necessarily be supposed to have a design to take away everything else, that freedom being the foundation of all the rest; as he that in the state of society would take away the freedom belonging to those of that society or commonwealth must be supposed to design to take away from them everything else, and so be looked on as in a state of war.” – John Locke, An Essay Concerning the true original, extent, and end of Civil Government.

    “Japanese during WWII? our battles in the European theater” murder? Rutherford, I wish you would finally learn the definition of “murder.”

    Sorry. I get what Noah’s saying now matter how inartfully stated in response to a three-sided attack.

  166. (the other 3 elude me at the moment.)

    You claimed to have visited Darfur when at M&H while your wife was preggers or had just given birth to a daughter.

    Looks like you acquired yourself a defense “team”, though an offensive one at that.

  167. OBAMANOMICS: US Productivity Plunges For 3rd Quarter In A Row – Longest Losing Streak Since 1979.

    The whiff of Jimmy Carter is in the air! Smells like gross incompetence, cowardice and massive failure. Barack is a Crock…

  168. So ET the American Indian & Hawaiian populations as well as the Boxers and to round out the list a Palestinian all are afforded Lockes shield?

  169. I’ll answer with a question. Would your life be better in the English/Irish/German (I don’t know your heritage) ghetto? Unless you’re descended from royalty which I greatly doubt.

    Nope, it would not have. But that only opens up a bigger question only reinforces my point. Would my life been better in an English/Irish/German Ghetto than Liberia?

    Yes, it would. Of that, I’m sure. So though I won the lotto too thanks to my descendants, you won the Powerball, as did your daughter.

  170. Would my life been better in an English/Irish/German Ghetto than Liberia?

    I doubt it. Sure you would have been more comfortable in a western-white ghetto than in an African one, just from a familiarity POV but your life would not have been better. Poor is poor. Color has nothing to do with it. That is one of the great tragedies of America is that when folks think poor they think black ghetto instead of Appalachia. That’s not only a disservice to blacks but a terrible disservice to poor whites who desperately need relief.

    But you and I agree on one thing. We both hit the lotto. 🙂

  171. Why am I not surprised that two of the most arrogant Americans in the bar, Rabbit and Tigre jump on the Noah train.

    Rabbit, the members of ISIL are following God’s law, knucklehead. It just ain’t your God!! That’s the whole point. Your terrorist is someone else’s freedom fighter. This is not rocket science unless you go through life with blinders on, thinking your culture is the only one that matters. It reminds me of the arrogant fucks who talk about “the real America”. Real to whom?

    But I’ll say this much for you and Tigre – at least you upped the game from Noah spouting the same poor logic repeatedly, to citing Locke and the Bible. Kudos for at least bringing a gun to the knife fight.

  172. @ ET that they shouldn’t be attacked and have their freedoms torn asunder and that when they are/ were they had a moral right to resist.

  173. “You claimed to have visited Darfur when at M&H while your wife was preggers or had just given birth to a daughter.”

    Darfur wasn’t what I call visiting. We were told where we could go and could not go. I spent 2 weeks in one village with one escorted trip to the market and then back to the village 2 hours later.

    “Rabbit, the members of ISIL are following God’s law, knucklehead. It just ain’t your God!! That’s the whole point. Your terrorist is someone else’s freedom fighter.”

    Cultural relativism is a false theory. What is moral and immoral is outside the bound of State. A government cannot make an immoral act moral. A rape will always be a violation no matter who sanctions it, be it your leader, your government, or your God. You can call yourself anything you like. declare that you are your God’s holy warriors. If you are killing random innocent people to make a statement, if you are raping women and children, if you are burning people alive, if you are committing genocide, then you are anything but a freedom fighter.

  174. The Sambia tribe of New Guinea.

    I am really not following this too well but there are some strange rites of passage in the world. The Sambias believe the masculinisation of boys is acheived through the drinking of the “essence” of older men. Now they don’t exactly sell this potent potable in bars so there’s fellatio involved.

  175. Like I said I’m not following too closely.

    ~

    @ R and Tex – I think what Tex is talking about is being thankful in all things, which is not a ridiculous precept. Example:

    Man cheats on wife, leaves her for another woman.
    Hard times follow.
    Woman meets new man, they marry and have a child.
    Good times follow.

    Thankfully.

  176. Noah address your earlier evasion first. You moved the goal and Rutherford took the bait.
    I’m not having a philosophy 101 class or a Sunday school meeting.

  177. “Noah address your earlier evasion first. You moved the goal and Rutherford took the bait.
    I’m not having a philosophy 101 class or a Sunday school meeting.”

    Actually if you look above R shifted the conversation and I followed. IF at any time you care to expand on your point feel free to do so otherwise it is just a pointless and empty statement.

  178. Worthy of note everything I described that you claim is moving the goal post are the actions taken by terrorists. So its not moving the goal post at all. I am defining the activities by these terrorists you are advocating for.

  179. Just trying to explain something to Rutherford since he keeps bringing it up for scorn.

    You lost me on “scorn”. Not sure I understand that but I do understand your earlier comments.

    Our life, in summary, with successes and failures leads us to our present place. A failed marriage can indeed open the door to a subsequent successful marriage that leads to having a child. The success might not have happened without the failure.

    On a macro scale I am assuming you are suggesting that the arc from slavery to emancipation makes the end state worth the struggle. That’s the best mental-health way to view history. Otherwise we get bogged down in the past.

    Perhaps it is a poor choice of words but I never get that positive vibe from Tex’s assessment of black history.

  180. “@ ET that they shouldn’t be attacked and have their freedoms torn asunder and that when they are/ were they had a moral right to resist.”

    Different discussion. I never said they didn’t. I also never said we weren’t wrong. You can have that debate with Noah. I understand what he’s saying, and I am familiar with the concept of natural law and, in very general terms, Locke’s approach. That’s all. Whether something was self-preservation/defense, or that perhaps neither or both sides may be morally justified (always a possibility), is a different discussion. Though I admit, Noah I think a valid point in response to much of what was said in his “who’s the initial aggressor” part of the equation.

    What Rutherford is talking about relates to neither. But please let your younger brother play along so he doesn’t feel excluded, and be home in time for dinner. We’re having meatloaf.

    Oh, and my apologies for seeing Noah’s point Rutherford. I know that wounds you so. I hope mummy won’t be cross.

  181. Poor is poor. Color has nothing to do with it. That is one of the great tragedies of America is that when folks think poor they think black ghetto instead of Appalachia.

    Perhaps the greatest tragedy in America are blacks believing the only measure of quality of life is money. Freedom, law, opportunity, potable water, sanitation, the cable TV provided by Uncle Sam never rate in the thug book.

    You think you’d be driving a BMW if your daddy and mommy were shoveling shit to burn for fuel in the Sudan?

    You think those WHITE PEOPLE in Appalachia would trade to be the animals in Liberia that use the beach to shat themselves, then walk back to the weeds to live?

    I just met a couple of niqqers with attitude yesterday protesting the grocery store for “discrimination” while resting inside their Lexus to cool themselves. It doesn’t get anymore pathetic or comical than that.

  182. What Rutherford is talking about relates to neither. But please let your younger brother play along so he doesn’t feel excluded.

    Why are you always a fucking asshole?

    You’ve said absolutely NOTHING in that last comment to help Noah at all. It’s wrong to kill? Wow, what a profound concept! Is that the part of Noah’s argument you “understand”?

    The entire discussion revolves around one simple concept. One man’s terrorist is another man’s hero. You either agree with that or you don’t.

  183. Like I told Muffy, Tex’s choice of words has not one shred of Christian gratitude about it. It’s a nasty bigoted take on things.

    At least Muffy presents a somewhat positive take on how slavery can be viewed as “ending up well”.

  184. Freedom, law, opportunity, potable water, sanitation, the cable TV provided by Uncle Sam never rate in the thug book.

    So let’s unwrap that. You’re so in love with the sound of your own voice, you don’t edit. Cable TV belongs in the same list as freedom? WTF are you talking about?

    You think those WHITE PEOPLE in Appalachia would trade to be the animals in Liberia that use the beach to shat themselves, then walk back to the weeds to live?

    Stupid proposition. My comparison was Appalachia to South Side Chicago, not Liberia. And the reason white trash won’t trade places with “ni##ers” is that they’ve been told being white is worth something in and of itself. That’s one sad reason they will always be trash.

    And I hate to let you in on this but this non-believer knows the difference between an animal and a human being. I thought your bible taught you better. 😏

  185. “Why are you always a fucking asshole?”

    Fuck off you douchebag. My comment follows this:

    “Why am I not surprised that two of the most arrogant Americans in the bar, Rabbit and Tigre jump on the Noah train.”

    Blow me. You’re not even following the discussion or what I’ve said, the bulk of which was a summary and quote of Locke and natural law. Worst part? You think you are following along.

    I’ll leave it to Noah.

    You can suck it.

  186. Rutherford is just backing up the lefts corrupt ideology. If you have good intentions, the act no longer matters, no matter how despicable. That is why BLM are victims, that is why Hillary got off, that is how terrorism is justified. All immoral acts can be justified if you mean well.

  187. Tigre I actually tipped my hat to your attempt to be academic but truth be told you can shove Locke up your ass.

    If you had any brains YOU would have remained silent. Noah was getting rightfully pummeled for his moral absolutes argument and his shift from “cultural relativism doesn’t exist” to “cultural relativism is wrong”.

    I don’t think you even know what you’re defending. The argument was among Noah, Alfie, Huck and me. Take your fucking ball and go home.

  188. “Your terrorist is someone else’s freedom fighter.”

    You are confusing moral code with conflict.

    We can share the same moral code and end up going to war with one another through misunderstanding or lack of trust.

    Also, a moral code (universal or not) doesn’t mean people live up to it. Quite the opposite.

  189. “I don’t think you even know what you’re defending. The argument was among Noah, Alfie, Huck and me. Take your fucking ball and go home.”

    LOL. Okaaaay.

  190. Noah you’re more invested in bashing the left than having a sensible discussion.

    YOU get to decide what is wrong for YOU. When enough of your fellows share your sense of right and wrong, you get together and form a group – perhaps a nation – grounded in those common beliefs. And others with different values form their own groups.

    Neither of us has more in common with ISIL’s sense of morality than we do with each other. I know you like to make the left “the enemy” but we’re not going to decapitate you.

  191. You are confusing moral code with conflict.

    I’ve gotta think about that. What I’m trying to get at is an ISIL “fighter” is following a moral code, in his estimation. You, Noah, I and just about everyone else here would characterize their behavior as immoral but that’s through our prism.

    As a side note: when Ali refused to go to war he said “No Vietnamese ever called me ni**er”. For Ali the enemy was at home. It’s all perception. (As many admired Ali’s “moral” stand as condemned it.)

  192. I stated a fact Rutherford. If you take it as bashing then maybe some reflection is in order. There is nothing I have stated that cannot be proven to be true. I think you have a problem with reality, not me.

    I made no shift on Cultural Relativism. I said the same thing just stated a different way in an attempt to get you to understand. I have been 100% consistent.

    While I agree that the squeamish and delicate left will not be cutting off any heads, they will set it up for others to do it in their stead.

    Everything about you and the left is a contradiction. They fight for the rights of the LGBT community yet defend Islam and they do not go to war (ideologically) with countries that murder them. Ditto with women’s rights. BLM condemns the killing of blacks by white police even though brown and black police kill more blacks, even though other blacks are responsible for 91% of black males dying. They are against capital punishment but for abortions. They want to confiscate/control guns they claim for public safety even though every study shows that an armed public is a safer public. They claim to be for the poor and the common man yet those groups have suffered more than any other these past 8 years while we are experiencing the growth of more billionaires than we have seen in generations, the group they claim to be going after to get them to pay ‘their fair share.’

    Synonyms for Democrat:
    Deceitful
    Dishonest
    Insincere
    Duplicitous
    Liar
    Unscrupulous
    Crooked
    Unprincipled
    Corrupt
    Sinister
    Two-faced
    Treacherous
    False
    Insidious
    Disingenuous

  193. @ Noah: Perhaps a final comment but in reviewing the thread you are wrong.
    The Iran conversation was begun at 1557 hrs on the 7th. A few comments in you launched the cut &paste highlighting Irans history of terror.
    Secondary the sandwich debate other than you asking R about the payment @2318 the discussion was not revisited until the 8th @ 1037 when I again brought up Iran & the words issues. At 1417 it was you who opened the ISIL can and veered away from Iran and into the topics of rape etc. Rutherford’s ISIL comment didn’t hit the thread until 1618.
    As much fun as cultural and moral relativism schism chatter is if you ever care to revisit Iran and other states having a different take on the words terrorist and patriot etc let us know.

  194. They are against capital punishment but for abortions.

    That one just jumped out at me. Are you telling me the conservative contradiction of being against abortion but for capital punishment does not exist?

    You are the very definition of an ideological bigot. I was more like you when I started this blog nine years ago. I could list a bunch of synonyms for conservatives equally superficial and silly as yours. Few if any here give me any credit for growth but if I’ve learned one thing it is that the sorry state we are in is on all of us, lib and conservative alike.

  195. I think the notion that a Pushtun in Pakistan who watches a Hellfire from a drone take out his wedding guests is understandably going to use his moral code. THIS is a better example than ISIL to highlight the kind of divide that exists in appreciating words.
    @ dead rabbit:
    Correct me if I’m wrong but your most recent comment perhaps touches upon two entities in conflict but who adhere to such things a Geneva,Hague and generally decency in the carrying out of the conflict.(?)

  196. “Correct me if I’m wrong but your most recent comment perhaps touches upon two entities in conflict but who adhere to such things a Geneva,Hague and generally decency in the carrying out of the conflict”

    Yes, I suppose it could.

  197. Rather than continue to call you a general asshole, I’ll be more specific, Tigre.

    Whether something was self-preservation/defense, or that perhaps neither or both sides may be morally justified (always a possibility) , is a different discussion.

    NO — the part I boldfaced is the ENTIRE discussion. Noah is claiming there are moral absolutes violated by Iran (and ISIL) and I am claiming morality is framed in the mind of the actor. There were Japanese families who never had a negative thought about the United States of America who were obliterated by the atomic bomb. Surely we didn’t consider dropping the bomb immoral. Surely many Japanese survivors did. One’s morality is shaped by one’s perception and even if we say there are moral rules that are God given, we don’t live in a world with one God.

    Noah’s moral absolutes have no practical implementation. To be kind, I find it a rather shallow argument.

  198. Kids getting off light.
    http://usherald.com/thug-brutally-assaults-white-boy-gets-crushing-news-da/#

    As you always do Rutherford you deflect rather than offer anything of substance.

    The difference between my list and yours is that I can back mien with real world events. Not just one or two isolated incidents but a consistent and pervasive ideology that is time and time again in conflict with itself.

    There are people, many I am sure you know, who have no place in this society. This kid above is one of them. I can list tens of thousands of such individuals who place no value on human life.

    Here is example after example after example of trash that needs to be taken out, that can never be rehabilitated as the recidivism rates show us. For such people by their choice, not ours, cannot fit in, for the safety of the public, should be put down. A baby is no threat to anyone. It cannot defend itself or mount a defense for its own life. A moral people have to do that for the child.
    https://www.facebook.com/Black-Lies-Matter-1623071007962796/?ref=bookmarks

    Again, your issue with me, calling me a bigot, is an issue with reality. You find facts to be distasteful and you blame me for them being facts. Very telling.

  199. “and I am claiming morality is framed in the mind of the actor. There were Japanese families who never had a negative thought about the United States of America who were obliterated by the atomic bomb. Surely we didn’t consider dropping the bomb immoral. Surely many Japanese survivors did. One’s morality is shaped by one’s perception and even if we say there are moral rules that are God given, we don’t live in a world with one God.”

    Oye so much wrong with all of this.

    “and I am claiming morality is framed in the mind of the actor.”

    This is a verb and it is true, they actively frame their arguments as such to allow themselves to do it by claiming it is moral. You can claim the sky is red, that does not make it true.

    As for the rest of your nonsense. Its not that the argument is shallow but rather that you are shallow and so brainwashed having spent a lifetime being owned by your party that you cannot grasp the concepts being presented. While morality is shaped by those who practice (or don’t) it, what is moral transcends the individual. Violations are immoral (Try and remember the first actor as you stroke out). Responses to those violations are necessary if one is to prevent future violations. The Japanese acted as a people, as a nation and as such are responsible for their actions as a people. To counter that action, action had to be taken against the nation as a whole. There are benefits and detriments to everything, being a nation is not excluded from that.

  200. Again, your issue with me, calling me a bigot, is an issue with reality. You find facts to be distasteful and you blame me for them being facts. Very telling.

    I call you a bigot, because like the average bigot, you find life easier to handle by making things simple. Democrats and Republicans are complex individuals spanning an entire spectrum of political thought, each side wanting what is best for our country but differing in how to make it happen. Your list of synonyms is either the work of a bigot or a very immature mind.

    Now, if you want to talk about groups with a much more specific purpose than Democrats, I’m all ears. Black Lives Matter is an incredibly misguided group because their SPECIFIC purpose is counter productive. The same could be said for the KKK although I’m not drawing an exact equivalency. While I think the patrons exaggerate the significance of the New Black Panther Party, surely their “kill whitey” overtones are indefensible. No matter how hard you try, you simply can’t pin down Democrats to the kind of characterization you can pin down these more focused groups.

  201. As for first actors. Noah, do you and I agree that the man who killed a half dozen cops in Dallas is a terrorist? I think we do. But from his own words, he viewed “cops” as first actors in the killings in Minnesota and Baton Rouge. Does that make his act moral?

  202. I call you a bigot, because like the average bigot, you find life easier to handle by making things simple.

    This is not what makes a person a bigot. Some of the most honest people tend to do this.

    “Democrats and Republicans are complex individuals spanning an entire spectrum of political thought, each side wanting what is best for our country but differing in how to make it happen. Your list of synonyms is either the work of a bigot or a very immature mind.”

    NO, not so much. Like minded people are attracted to the party. They are who they are, they are not who they are because of the party they belong too. Every party has its outliers and there is where you and I always differ. I talk about what is the most pervasive, what is the most often true. You use the 1% or the .5% and try to represent it as the norm. My list speaks to the average Democrat politician, and the people blindly and unquestioningly follow their masters. The last 8 years have been a testament to every word I chose in my list of Democrat Synonyms. I dare you to tell me that it has not been so.

  203. “As for first actors. Noah, do you and I agree that the man who killed a half dozen cops in Dallas is a terrorist?”

    I have already listed them as terrorists above.

    “But from his own words, he viewed “cops” as first actors in the killings in Minnesota and Baton Rouge. Does that make his act moral?”

    Only if you are a hard core racist do you believe that killing the police in Dallas was moral. None of those people shot had anything to do with the acts he was protesting against. Choosing to be a police officer does not instantly make you responsible for the actions of all other police officers. Add to that he is protest against black men dying but he is ignoring the 2 leading causes for racist reasons, an irony for sure.

  204. “NO — the part I boldfaced is the ENTIRE discussion.”

    It is not the discussion “I” am having, dumbfuck. Can you read? I said it’s between Alfie and Noah. God.

    You? Just saying stuff because you can’t keep up.

  205. Words mean things people….Dallas shooter NOT a terrorist! Neither was Charleston dickhead D Roof.

    (5) the term “domestic terrorism” means activities that—
    (A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
    (B) appear to be intended—
    (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
    (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
    (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
    (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.

  206. And I hate to let you in on this but this non-believer knows the difference between an animal and a human being. I thought your bible taught you better.

    Oh, spare me the false piety, Beamer. You dishonest schmuck, you. 😆 😆 We’re not talking South Chicago, sport. We’re talking about origins, remember?

    You know damn well what I’m referring to and you can’t bring yourself to admit, 8 generations after slavery and the deaths of hundreds of thousands of WHITE PEOPLE to bring slavery to an end, you ingrates are still using it a club.

    And most of WHITE PEOPLE ain’t listening to your bullshit anymore.

  207. Oh God how I hate to agree with Noah on this but Alfie I think B2 and B3 are satisfied by what the Dallas shooter was doing. He was a violent extension of BLM which clearly has a purpose to influence government policy.

  208. It is not the discussion “I” am having,

    LOL Good point. I thought you were participating in the discussion already underway. I shouldn’t have attacked you for introducing a tangent. 😊

    Was Rabbit introducing a tangent too? Guess I owe him an apology for calling him arrogant too. 😉

  209. A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
    He killed cops √

    (B) appear to be intended—

    (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
    Cops were being assassinated left and right to send a message of intimidation. √

    (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion;
    BLM Wants policy change in the justice system and reparations. √

    (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping;
    He killed cops, assassination style √

    (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.
    Last I checked, Dallas was inside of the US √

  210. Alfie, sorry but I am clearly right and you are clearly wrong. This one is a home run. BLM movement is on record for all of the things they want and are willing to do and have done to carry it out.

  211. None of those people shot had anything to do with the acts he was protesting against.

    In a war, those killed are not directly responsible for the acts of their states. Warriors kill other warriors for whom they represent, not who they actually are.

  212. It’s time to get home, Rutherford. It’ll be dark soon and dinner’s almost ready.

    Cute. Turkey and Swiss wrap with mayo and it was yummy. Sorry you couldn’t stop by. Mom keeps saying “why doesn’t Tigre come by anymore?” I tell her you’re hanging with a bad crowd.

  213. Noah I’d be surprised if you haven’t used the phrase “war on cops”. Wouldn’t that be your characterization?

    As for your synonym list, I’m not wasting my time refuting it. Your posting it proves you’re not a rational player from the get-go.

  214. Declare it a war call for BLM to do that and watch what happens. I will pop the popcorn.

    As for my list, as always I dont care why you concede the argument, only that you do. I guarantee you and I both know I can find everything I need in the Obama term in office to back every word. As your word is trash I dont need acknowledgement, your refusal to discuss the issue is all I need. Actions speak.

  215. No Noah. The facts are what they are,the DPD refused to call Johnson a terrorist for a reason. Your incorrect take on the statutes is what it is.
    A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
    He killed cops – Yes he did but that is a crime that doesn’t on its own amount to terrorism anymore than whacking black church goers.

    (B) appear to be intended—

    (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
    Police are not really the civilian population as evidenced by the various laws put into place making crimes against them extra felony level charges. Clearly hatred of the police by even a rational person fails to meet the terror level of intimidating or coercing the civilian population.You must get your head wrapped around the reality that just because something is terrifying it isn’t terrorism.

    (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion;
    Neither BLM nor any other entity officially condoned or supported the criminal act.In fact they spoke out against it. Also the entities that Johnson liked are on “hate group” lists but not the terror watch lists we as Americans have been made accustomed to. As Johnson was not likely fully rational it is also unlikely he wanted anything other than to kill. A psycho can kill many people but it doesn’t make it a terrorist act. For example Lanza had no intentions of anything but killing yet he altered public policy and left an indelible mark on a community and beyond.
    (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping;
    Words mean things and I don’t think you’ve got assassination quite right.

    (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.
    Yes Dallas is in the USA but keep in mind this isn’t an ala carte meal where one or two items make the whole. You need it all.
    You’ve struck out buddy,now how we doing on that Iran stuff?

  216. Tex everything is whiteys fault. 😀😀😀

    Now that’s more like the Rutherford I came to know and love. ♥♥♥ Can you work in something about blacks can’t be racist because….

  217. You are wrong Alfie. The intention was to terrorize the police. He did indeed assassinate them, all of them. This was also not a lone incident. No thinking person would expect BLM to condone this, that would be an act of suicide. They have publicly called for the death of Police officers.

    Of white people

    Every single thing from motive and intent to action is there. This is textbook terrorism.

  218. Wrong Alfie. The intention was to terrorize the police. He did indeed assassinate them, all of them. This was also not a lone incident. No thinking person would expect BLM to condone this, that would be an act of suicide. They have publicly called for the death of Police officers. Examples to follow as WP keeps refusing to post my content..

    Every single thing from motive and intent to action is there. This is textbook terrorism.

  219. Examples to follow as WP keeps refusing to post my content..

    Noah, comments with too many links get flagged for my approval. I approved your multi-video comment.

  220. I will worry about stuff like that when the media Will Smith calling for Trump supporters to be cleansed. Or when they widely report on the Trump supporter who was murdered for nothing more than being a Trump supporter. OR one that was beat down for wearing a Trump hat. Or the 65 year old man beaten to the group for supporting Trump.

  221. Well, now I see MSNBC is saying Trump called for Hillary’s assassination through his comment about 2nd amendment types.

    Just like the invitation to hack government servers we heard about from trusted sources like MSNBC, Daily Kos, Huffpo, Salon. . . .

  222. Lol… The twerking is even more disturbing.

    She’s so privileged she probably got “grandfathered” in the Choom Gang.

  223. “Any thoughts on Trump’s “suggestion to kill Hillary”? I think the MSM is really reaching on this one.”

    It’s Trump’s fault for not being able to stay on message for more than 30 seconds at a time, and it’s the voters’ fault for nominating the jackass.

    I said it all along, only Republicans could squander an opportunity to crush the weak candidate in Hillary Clinton.

    Enjoy your straight talker

  224. I don’t know. It kinda looks like she grabbed a hit off of a cig, to me.

    Personally, I don’t give a crap what a president’s kid does as much as I care what the parent does. Yeah, the left does this stupid shit, too. But why people insist on repaying stupid with stupid, is beyond me.

    Don’t we have so many other things to worry about that WTF Malia Obama or Tiffany Trump is out doing?

  225. I said it all along, only Republicans could squander an opportunity to crush the weak candidate in Hillary Clinton.

    Even the MSM which is in the tank for HRC admits that she’s weak enough to beat by a decent GOP candidate. It is harder and harder for me to wrap my head around the fact he actually got the nomination.

  226. Yeah, the left does this stupid shit, too. But why people insist on repaying stupid with stupid, is beyond me.

    You’re catching up — on Day 1 of the Obama administration a huge contingent were looking forward to payback for perceived slights against Bush.

  227. “Tigre, RadarOnline, really? WorldNutDaily is next I suppose.”

    Have I been Punk’d? Photoshop? Hell if I know. She looks like Trayvon to me.

  228. I heard Trump to say that the 2nd amendment types might have enough political influence to block a SCOTUS confirmation.

    Ot the more likely “assassinate his opponent” ’cause that makes perfect sense, and now I am trembling mad.

  229. “I don’t know. It kinda looks like she grabbed a hit off of a cig, to me.”

    Poolman/Weedman, we need a ruling. Doobie, fag. . . or fagwich?

    That could be Rutherford’s daughter for fuck’s sake.

  230. “Don’t we have so many other things to worry about that WTF Malia Obama or Tiffany Trump is out doing?”

    If you’ve got time to be here, you can probably juggle both.

  231. “If you’ve got time to be here, you can probably juggle both.”

    Read back over my comment and you’ll notice time wasn’t used as a factor in what I wrote.

    To be honest, I really meant “we” as a country. I already know “we” as the Rutherford Lawson blog commenters aren’t going to solve the nation’s problems.

    But that doesn’t mean I’m not going to point out when I think we are being part of those problems.

  232. Malia is the young shit with attitude, isn’t she? Like her mother. Probably an American hatin’, whitey loathing turd like her mother too – a brat and an ingrate, taking a “gap” year on the expense of every American taxpayer. I already loathe the snot – Chelsea Clinton in waiting.

  233. So, I read the CORRUPT OBAMA ADMINISTRATION is once again protecting the CORRUPT CLINTON FOUNDATION via the corrupt and racist DOJ once again under the watch of a corrupt imbecile.

    I swear, if Trump should win by chance, I hope he packs the DOJ with every consigliere type there is to make the Obama, Clinton, Lynch, and Holder family’s life a living nightmare, too afraid to even walk out of the house.

    We could use a Michael ‘Trump’ Corleone type to clean up the place in one afternoon while observing the baby being baptized. I can hardly keep both hands on the keyboard dreaming about that.

  234. “So, I read the CORRUPT OBAMA ADMINISTRATION is once again protecting the CORRUPT CLINTON FOUNDATION via the corrupt and racist DOJ once again under the watch of a corrupt imbecile”

    Fucking disgusting.

  235. I can hardly keep both hands on the keyboard dreaming about that.

    Anyone who’s followed the blog for a few years knows this is a frequent refrain of Mr. Taylor.

    I don’t know whether to be flattered or creeped out that this site does for Tex what porn sites do for most other men. 💋💋

  236. I heard Trump to say that the 2nd amendment types might have enough political influence to block a SCOTUS confirmation.

    To be fair that is not what Trump said. This is proven by two things. The fact that the “2nd amendment folks” comment was made as an aside with a strange tone to it but more importantly the immediate words after “that would be a horrible day”. What’s horrible about political influence?

    This is why our politics is broken. Because we have bullshit artists on both sides of the argument. The left is WRONG. Trump did not call for the specific assassination of Hillary. The right (including Tigre) is also wrong. Trump DID conjecture about insurrection.

    So the left overplays its hand leaving room for the Tigre’s to spout their bullshit.

  237. But one thing that bugs me:

    With All Due Respect claimed Trump’s faux pas drowned out Clinton related problems. No! The lib media CHOSE to cover Trump and ignore Clinton. Fox covered Clinton scandals every night.

    It pisses me off when news organizations pretend they don’t choose what to cover.

  238. Yeah I knew you’d glom onto “strange tone”. I couldn’t find the right word. It wasn’t sarcasm. It was an aside almost like a Groucho Marx comment straight to camera. But you know damn well what I mean.

    And the “horrible day” nails it. You predictably dodged that.

    It may have been a joke but it was definitely about violence. Again, not about HRC specifically.

  239. I don’t know whether to be flattered or creeped out that this site does for Tex what porn sites do for most other men. 💋💋

    ** GUFFAW ** Nice touch with the lips.

  240. I’m not the least bit scared. But just so you can contextualize this, it falls in the “words and symbols can trigger violence” playbook. I tore a page out of that playbook with Gabby Giffords.

    Oh and who is one of the people who immediately reacted to Trump? … Gabby Giffords.

  241. Rutherford, I’m with you. That was a troll comment by Trump and he vaguely alluded to violence.

    It’s something I would say.

    I don’t want me as president.

    He’s a pathetoc canidate and I appologize for picking him in the primary. I was pissed off and let my emotions get the better of me, something I’ve righteously called you out on many times.

    I still will vote for that wreck over Clinton becuase a vote for her is a vote for the total corruption of this country.

    To think that Hillary Clinton will believe she has some sort of mandate after her landslide over Trump should make every decent American cry.

    Lastly, the Obama administration is 100% corrupt. He will go down in history as someone who brought anarchy abroad and horrific corruption at home. Fuck him.

  242. “words and symbols can trigger violence” playbook. I tore a page out of that playbook with Gabby Giffords.”

    I don’t understand. Are you trying to defend your insane MSNBC spoon fed attack on free speech and Sara Palin? What a pathetic time that was cor you.

  243. Are you trying to defend your insane MSNBC spoon fed attack on free speech and Sara Palin?

    Not so much defend as say I recognize the line of attack. I actually don’t think the “cross hairs affair” was my finest moment. “Fire in a crowded theater” argument loses some of its juice when you take it to a macro level. I should have known that back then.

  244. I will not vote for Trump because I know the only reason for it is to fuck Hillary and Debbie Whatsername Schultz. I won’t be able to sleep knowing I pulled the lever for a total train wreck who has zero business in the Oval. But I also won’t hold it against anyone else for voting for him. I understand anyone who wants to keep HRC out of the White House.

    My current quandary is which wasted vote will sit best with me? Jill Stein, Gary Johnson or – fuck it – Evan McMullen? I gotta figure that out by November.

  245. I like Sam Stein and Howard Feinman but no one from Huffington Post should be allowed on TV until HuffPo stops ending every Trump article with a disclaimer calling him a bigot. That is journalistic malfeasance.

  246. There are two viable votes in this election, Hillary or Trump. No other candidate has a chance of winning this cycle. No matter who you vote for, you are helping one or the other to get elected, even if you stay home. You may fool yourself that you were moral and did the right thing by not voting for either, mathematically you are lying to yourself.

    http://www.breitbart.com/video/2016/08/10/krauthammer-clinton-foundation-was-clinton-insiders-waiting-for-her-to-return-to-wh/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social

  247. I’ve said all along, the Clinton Foundation was the vehicle for Hillary and Bill’s obscene corruption. It, not ignorance or Benghazi Blumenthal himself or anything else, is why Hillary did what she did with the emails. The ones she wiped with a cloth. The ones that are all missing and she can likely be blackmailed with because everyone except America has them.

    And I am getting on the brain injury bandwagon. Something is totally fucked up other than remaining and defending her serial rapist husband.

  248. “This is proven by two things. The fact that the “2nd amendment folks” comment was made as an aside with a strange tone to it but more importantly the immediate words after “that would be a horrible day”. What’s horrible about political influence?”

    The tone proves nothing and the horrible day could refer to Hillary picking the judges. Theres no proof of meaning. I think the horrible day was added to try and backtrack a bad joke.

    I just think Trump overrates his own sense of humor and doesnt know how to use wittiness as a weapon. He tries to be funny and he misses.

  249. “I’ve said all along, the Clinton Foundation was the vehicle for Hillary and Bill’s obscene corruption. It, not ignorance or Benghazi Blumenthal himself or anything else, is why Hillary did what she did with the emails. The ones she wiped with a cloth. The ones that are all missing and she can likely be blackmailed with because everyone except America has them.”

    Just think. By November, the entire Executive will be corrupt and run by a rogue criminal.

  250. “I just think Trump overrates his own sense of humor”

    I think this sums it up. However, I think this a monster sized flaw to have.

    Look at the death and anarchy that can be arguably associated with Obama’s off the cuff red line bull shit.

  251. “However, I think this a monster sized flaw to have.

    Look at the death and anarchy that can be arguably associated with Obama’s off the cuff red line bull shit.”

    It is one of my least favorite qualities in a person. Obama certainly has it.

    Even in its milder forms – ie: the “harmless” folks – it grates.

  252. I sleep fine knowing I’m voting for Trump in Nov.

    I don’t like it. But I don’t have much of a choice. When I did (in the primaries) I made a different choice.

    However I also don’t see that he’s disqualified himself either. My blind spot there may be that I’m starting to weigh pols against Obama and Clinton.

    Trump fights dirty. That’s not a good sign of how he’ll govern, but Republican candidates have the impossible mission of being on the wrong side of the press (with one notable exception), the entertainment industry, and academia.

    My biggest concern about Trump is that he’s too much like his opponents.

  253. Sure enough, there’s more than one way to interpret the horrible day line.

    The clip that the media runs cuts off right where they want it to.

  254. “Even in its milder forms – ie: the “harmless” folks – it grates.”

    Muffy’s anti douche bag bias makes Dead Rabbit suspect she might hate him in real life.

  255. Ummm, yeah. The rest of that clip helps.

    Oh well, the retarded left will say he wants Hillary assassinated. This is what they do.

    I really can’t visualize Trump doing the stand up routine once he’s set to task. The environment and objectives will have changed and the rewards (ego stroking) will be dispensed for different reasons. Sure. He’s a punk and single minded in his desire to stroke his ego through shameless self-aggrandizement, it’s in his DNA, but I think the schtick we are seeing will not continue if elected.

    But I may be wrong.

    MSNBC and its adherents need to be kicked in the goodies. The transparently idiotic spasms over the manufactured narratives is so fucking juvenile.

    Go for it Rutherford. Tell us all about Fox or whatever outlet is the counterpart du jour. It doesn’t change the MSNBC-grade stupidity that is so telling about the collective psyche of the dems.

  256. Rabbit that’s preposterous. No one could hate you. Unless maybe you were punching them in the face. Even then, I think they’d pretty much know they deserved it.

    I actually think you’re one of the smartest and funniest people I’ve ever come across.

  257. Tigre do you know anything about any laws or cases regarding inciting violence? I heard once that if there are more than a single reasonable interpretation of the speech the law comes down on the side of the speaker.

    Of course this DOJ would decide based on the skin color and political affiliation of the speaker.

  258. “I heard once that if there are more than a single reasonable interpretation of the speech the law comes down on the side of the speaker.”

    Muffy, it’s been too long since I read the cases concerning this in law school. I would put money or beer on your recollection being correct though.

  259. I’m also sleeping well knowing I am voting for Trump. Trump’s alleged musing about murdering Hillary is nothing more than Democratic hypocracy for political advantage. Hillary and Kerry have done worse.

    He was right to say Obama and Hillary created ISIS because they did through mismanagement and inattention.

    Donald joked that he could shoot someone and not lose votes.
    What if he shot Hillary? He shouldn’t and won’t but about everything else has happened lately.

    Our political and media system is as polluted as the water holding the Olympics boat races. The Olympics are more interesting and the scenery is better. I am on vacation from reading politics for awhile.

  260. The clip that the media runs cuts off right where they want it to. – Muffy

    The added few seconds add a bit of context if you want it to. Trump has Sarah Palin’s gift. His word salad can be interpreted in many ways by many people.

    He’s a punk and single minded in his desire to stroke his ego through shameless self-aggrandizement, it’s in his DNA, but I think the schtick we are seeing will not continue if elected.
    But I may be wrong. – Tigre

    Yes, you’re wrong. He is who he is. The only question is will the bureaucracy of Washington slow him down and keep him under control? I do agree he won’t be tweeting. WH security can probably put a stop to that by issuing him a device with no Twitter app on it. But Donald will try to be Donald. Let’s get very real — we all know DONALD DOES NOT WANT THE JOB!!!! He wants to run. He wants the attention. He does not want to govern.

    I forget where I heard this but I heard someone say Donald’s ideal outcome is to lose the election by just a smidgen so he can claim fraud and then launch a conservative radio show. I think that is very plausible.

    Welcome back James. I was starting to worry about you.

  261. Before Tigre attacks me – I inferred that you meant Donald will change once in office — not that the office will force him to change. If you mean the latter, then I agree with you that he will be constricted in what he can do.

  262. I am not voting for Hillary based on principle. That said, I think most of you are overestimating what she can get done in office. I know you hate Obama but she will be no worse than four more years of Obama.

    Trump on the other hand will precipitate a private or public constitutional crisis as people below him in the chain of command tell him, over and over, “no, Donald, you cannot do that.” That may be up to and including military personnel refusing to launch a nuke. Yes – I know that is melodramatic, but I still think it is in the realm of possibility.

  263. I did mean the latter. I’m glad you questioned your first interpretation, especially since there’s a certain irony to it.

  264. “Trump on the other hand will precipitate a private or public constitutional crisis as people below him in the chain of command tell him, over and over, “no, Donald, you cannot do that.”

    Unlike the ones below Obama and Hillary’s chain of command that can’t and won’t do that.

    “I know you hate Obama but she will be no worse than four more years of Obama.”

    Sure Stalin could be no worse than Lenin.

  265. I’m sleeping like a baby during this election, not even motivated to smack around Rutherford. And he apparently can’t get motivated to smack me around either. It’s a combination of chit candidates we both can’t stand and getting old. 😛

    Turned FOX off three months ago, only read the headlines off Drudge so I can mock Hillary, and know this country is in a heap of trouble as is, no matter the outcome.

    Ruth Bader Isaturd finally pushed me to the point of voting for Trump, though I doubt he will win. I’m patiently waiting for people to conclude they’ve had enough of Washington DC and we start treating DC like the districts treated Panem in the Hunger Games. I’m starting to sound more like Brother Nathaniel every day – a cause for concern.

    I guess I’m so uneducated and slow, I never realized Panem translates into “Bread & Circuses.” Those books were even more clever than I thought.

  266. Where to start.

    1) “…we all know DONALD DOES NOT WANT THE JOB!!!! He wants to run. He wants the attention. He does not want to govern.”

    We all know nothing of the kind.

    2)“Trump on the other hand will precipitate a private or public constitutional crisis as people below him in the chain of command tell him, over and over, “no, Donald, you cannot do that.” ”

    The crisis is already here. Trump might be stoppable. Obama is not. Hillary? Hah! We know the answer to that. Even the head of the FBI is no match for her.

    I tend to agree about Hillary being no worse than Obama. My concern isn’t that I’m overestimating her it’s that I’m underestimating her.

    The only plausible thing I can think of that could possibly be worse than Hillary is 4 more years of Obama.

    3)”I am not voting for Hillary based on principle.”

    What principle is that?

  267. “I guess I’m so uneducated and slow, I never realized Panem translates into “Bread & Circuses.” Those books were even more clever than I thought.”

    Thank you for that!

  268. Doh! I should have truncated the part in the quote about you supposing that you are uneducated and slow.

    Ruth Buzzy and Sotomayer are a dual-headed curse.

  269. “I am not voting for Hillary based on principle. That said, I think most of you are overestimating what she can get done in office. I know you hate Obama but she will be no worse than four more years of Obama.”

    If enough turn out to elect Hillary, then so too goes Congress. Add to that, Hillary will make a Progressive majority SCOTUS that will begin to dismantle the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, and 10th amendments. Hillary will outperform Obama by leaps and bounds.

  270. @ Rutherford who is going to work with HRC for the first half of her ONLY TERM? I don’t see the GOP treating her much better than Obama so we end up with Hillary going the Imperial route.
    If even a few of her budget busting promises come to fruition we’re screwed.
    Her foreign policy is status quo at best. As I’ve said before I think she is more likely to be a Wilsonian hawk getting us bogged down again in the Middle East and Shitastans. Putin will absolutely punk her hard! She will be the least positive force for our long time ally as they launch the BREXIT. I don’t see her having the SCOTUS Apocalypse since she is such a status quo whore and the GOP won’t let her.
    Americans should be ashamed of themselves. Every person with either a Clinton or Trump bumper sticker gets very polite questions aimed at highlighting their mental retardation. I’m actually shocked I’ve gotten so many to play along.

  271. For those who seriously fear the oncoming Black War on Whitey I have some bad news for you. I caught a trailer for Birth of a Nation. This thing will absolutely incite some criminal behavior. I also predict that unless something else challenges it in the Academy Affirmative Action category it will be snagging Oscar amongst the smoke and screams.

  272. Also worthy of note on Hillary is that she is highly susceptible to being blackmailed. She has already proven in practice that she cannot be trusted with national security information. We know she has lied under oath to congress and to the American people (confirmed not speculation.) We are seeing significant traction on the Clinton Foundation and the pay for play. Trump might be bad, but he is not Hillary bad, not even close.

  273. Thanks Rutherford. I have been picking sweet corn and beans with our internet down for five days. My wife is still in Omaha with our grand daughter.

    I haven’t been watching the news lately, but as I drove to our sweet corn patch I heard an Omaha talk show host who said a teacher he knows alleged that the evil spawn of racist Morgan Freeman conducted a seminar in OPS today.

    The evil creature is Freeman’s daughter who has a consulting business with her father.

    The message was that teachers need to incorporate Black Lives Matter and Social Justice doctrine into lessons. Meritocracy is a myth used only by privileged whites. The police are systematically murdering black children such as Brown and white children are not to be trusted. Whites are preventing black children from succeeding as they should because white teachers favor their own race.

    Our founding fathers created a country based on racism and preserving their privilege.

    If Hillary is elected we will see even more of this than we would otherwise, and the result will be more riots.

    I agree with Alfie.

  274. We all know nothing of the kind. – Muffy

    Are you being argumentative for the sake of it or do you really in your heart of hearts believe Donald Trump wants to do the job of US President — or even understands fully what the job entails?

    What principle is that? – Muffy

    I’ve gone down this road with you before but I have a problem with HRC playing fast and loose with national security to cover her own ass, as well as the persistent and almost inexplicable habit of public lies, so easily disproven. It’s almost like at every presser she tells us the sky is green. That’s on top of her total lack of accomplishment as SoS and her nasty-ass behavior in the 2008 primary season.

    Alfie, your comment seems to suggest my comment about HRC was an endorsement. Everything you say may come to fruition and it still doesn’t justify the gross irresponsibility of anyone voting for Donald Trump. That said, I still understand the move, however foolish.

  275. A rose by any other name is still a rose…
    Rutherford you Chris Rock embed swings both ways. You say yoonot voting for Hillary BUT you support the retards that do. I condemn them and the Trumpers too. America is stuck in the drain and Roto-Rooter just doesn’t have a snake large enough to unclog it.

  276. One other thing.some may remember that I subscribe to the theory of Spheric politics. I see much going on that vindicates my support of that school. I’m not saying its fair but am declaring it real that since the Islamosphere is a reality why do we want female SoSs or POTUS. Contrary to whatever folks believe of Merk or May the world is not inclined to agree.

  277. This thing will absolutely incite some criminal behavior.

    You know how it is, Alfie. These punks are already trying to incite a riot. Let them.

    I also predict that unless something else challenges it in the Academy Affirmative Action category it will be snagging Oscar amongst the smoke and screams.

    Good. Those a_holes already alienated so many, that I understand Hollywood is starting to understand there’s a disturbance in their force called massive red ink.

  278. “Are you being argumentative for the sake of it or do you really in your heart of hearts believe Donald Trump wants to do the job of US President — or even understands fully what the job entails?”

    I’m not being argumentative at all.

    You said “we all know DONALD DOES NOT WANT THE JOB!!!! He wants to run. He wants the attention. He does not want to govern.”

    I disagree. I disagree that we all know this, and I disagree with your premise.

    “I’ve gone down this road with you before…”

    That’s not true. You’ve allowed for the email server and that “she left a sour taste in [your] mouth all the way back in 2008.”

    It appears that the principles you’re added here and now are – honesty and accomplishment?

    Why did you vote for Barack Obama?

  279. I condemn them and the Trumpers too.

    My proposed solution will be posted tomorrow.

    As for the Islamosphere, you’re suggesting not to elect a female POTUS because radical Muslims don’t like chicks?

  280. I disagree. I disagree that we all know this, and I disagree with your premise.

    What premise do you disagree with? You didn’t answer my question. Do you, in your heart, believe Donald wants the job of President? By the way, “we all know this” refers to the patrons here whose intelligence I take for granted. It was not a reference to the public at large.

    Back to Hillary. I didn’t just add honesty. Her handling of the email server speaks to her dishonesty. Hiding is dishonest. She set up the server to hide stuff. I’ve also been on record here saying John Kerry accomplished more in two weeks than Hillary in four years.

    Why did I vote for Obama the first or second time? The first time he definitely did NOT present the record of failure and dishonesty that Clinton does. That vote could not have been easier for me. The second time, was more the lesser of two evils and even now I’m not sure I voted correctly because Mitt was misrepresented in the media. He likely would have accomplished no more than Obama but no less. Our domestic would still be in the shitter but our FP might have been better. He was, in retrospect, right about Russia.

  281. @ Rutherford they needn’t be “radical” . No matter what you think about the quality of US gender views we and the westernmost bot o’ West are in the minority.

  282. @R – I disagree with the premise that Trump does not want to be president.

    “Back to Hillary. I didn’t just add honesty…John Kerry accomplished more in two weeks than Hillary did in four years.”

    So dishonesty and accomplishment it is.

    “The first time he definitely did NOT present the record of failure and dishonesty that Clinton does. That vote could not have been easier for me.”

    That doesn’t really answer the question, does it? Why did you vote for Obama (the first time)? Because he didn’t have a record of dishonesty and failure?

    And the second time was the “lesser of two evils,” but Mitt was misrepresented in the media. So if you had a do-over on that vote would your vote be different?

  283. So if you had a do-over on that vote would your vote be different?

    I’d be lying if I said definitely but perhaps. Let’s say if I had a do-over the choice would be much harder. I never took Romney at all seriously.

    I voted for Obama the first time because I thought I was voting for a very intelligent progressive pol with being black a huge historical bonus.

    Thanks for the clarity on Trump. I’m surprised you think he wants the job but so be it.

  284. Perhaps Alfie but I always thought you had a blind spot where Mitt was concerned. I don’t recall a single criticism which is unlike you.

    I thought of you last night when I watched an account of the 1990 election that put Weld in the Governor’s mansion. Apparently his Dem opponent was a first class asshole – Trump but much smarter.

  285. “Back to Hillary. I didn’t just add honesty. Her handling of the email server speaks to her dishonesty. Hiding is dishonest. She set up the server to hide stuff.”

    Do you find Obama protecting her to be dishonest?

  286. John Silber was something else. Perhaps you knew of him as the guy that upped BU’s game a number of notches and permanently shook off the envy syndrome of the cross Charles crimsons chimps 😀
    I never felt Mitt deserving off my scorn since I felt he was so truly the right person at the right time. Clearly there wasn’t too much one had to pinch their nose about with him. I did think I commented somewhere that his Olympic glory was overstated though.

  287. Nothing but nothing proves how nutty the right wingnut element is than when a (R) thinks for themselves and strays from the near Nazi dogma of the pinhead platoon.

  288. Alfie, one day I would love to educate you on what actual Nazi dogma is. You are obviously beyond ignorant on the subject. Our family experienced it first hand.

    Sharia, I hate to say I told you so, but I fucking told you so.

  289. I believe in educating oneself. But it should only take one time to understand fire burns or knives cut or politicians lie. I believe there are plenty of examples and there really is absolutely nothing new under the sun, in spite of the vast variety of marketing and packaging. Signs are a dead giveaway.

    The thing is the fallacies should be more easily realized en masse and without mass media they would all fall flat in real time. This joke requires audience participation and I cannot in anyway lend my lot to the whole farce. It is a puke worthy state we find ourselves in fellow humans. I prefer the no wallering section.

    I choose to focus on what I can do and not those I have no control over. We all depend upon the very same source for life.

  290. Yes, Rutherford, Obama DID present the record of dishonesty and failure before the first election. I know because I did the research.

    Our press was willfully ignorant and ill disposed to do anything which would hurt the Light Master’s chances.

    You and millions of other Americans were duped.

  291. Nothing but nothing proves how nutty the right wingnut element is than when a (R) thinks for themselves and strays from the near Nazi dogma of the pinhead platoon.

    Well Alfie, I definitely agree with you (and the same can be said for Dems) but I’m curious what prompted your comment.

    An aside to Noah: do you have even one shred of humility?

  292. Now I suggest you all focus your prayful energy toward the clinton as it seems that it has been decided she will be the chosen and her state of being is in the least questionable. I am supposed to pray for my brothers and sisters as well as my enemies. I am not of the spiritual hook, as it were. And besides, who better to change the heart of the king? Or melt it? 🙂

  293. Of course trump doesn’t want to be president. It would cramp his lifestyle. You see how it put bobo in the press every day and not always pretty. Trump isn’t that everyday guy. He needs the media, but needs his away time. This really has been a long stretch for him to be in the public eye. I”m sure he is ready to take a break and let others have the spotlight. How else can he capitalize on this investment?

  294. Gary Johnson is not a real choice either Rutherford. You may as well put your hat in. I’ll vote for you. But put on some common sense and turn off the teevee. Maybe I’d vote for you. You’re going to have to get in shape. Do you think we could suspend hillary by her thumbs? I think they have had enough exercise and look fit enough…

  295. Not enough context to understand the humility question. I am not lacking in self confidence and that is probably what bothers you. I have no doubt in my mind about what I know that I know. I don’t make claims unless I have significant evidence for it and I don’t claim to believe in things for fickle reasons.

  296. Damn politics! I’ve been so immersed I didn’t know until today a new Green Day album is coming out. How did that get past me?

    I need to go back to reading Rolling Stone.

  297. Noah, here’s your context for my humility remark:

    Alfie, one day I would love to educate you on what actual Nazi dogma is. You are obviously beyond ignorant on the subject.

  298. Spin Magazine devotes an entire article to how they don’t like the cover art on Green Day’s upcoming album. Really? That passes for music criticism?

    Hey, anybody here wanna start a music magazine with me? We can beat that shit.

  299. @ Rutherford I’ve always had a problem with the Pinhead Platoon but its been ramping up as of late. A number of things I’ve seen shows there is a solid element seemingly dedicated to get HRC elected just so they can screech. They also are thoroughly unhinged and uncaring about the results of their actions ala the folks that burned Milo Y.

  300. Don’t know what you took personal Noah but suffice to say on an intellectual spectrum compared to me you’re a paste eating toddler with serious genetic issues. You’re a bully,and a coward. You’re also a liar. All of that is provable in this thread alone.

  301. The principles which preclude you from voting for Hillary are the counterpoint to the ignorance which afflicted you when you voted for Obama.

    Hillary is a known substance as Obama was not to the uninitiated. Information drives the vote and lets us assemble our concept of a candidate to match our principles. Information and its scarcity told you your vote for Obama and your vote against Hillary was a proper decision.

    A vote for Hillary is a vote for Wilsonian aggression and incompetence. We don’t know what a vote for Trump would bring, but it probably would be less harmful than the alternative.

    If you asked the average voter the definition of Wilsonian he/ she would ask “huh?”

  302. “in life too there are many fairy tales. Do not rush, wait, you will see, all will be, but not right away.”

    Green Day’s new album also got past me. I am more worried about the Olympics. A music magazine is a great idea.

  303. Spin Magazine devotes an entire article to how they don’t like the cover art on Green Day’s upcoming album. Really? That passes for music criticism?

    That’s because the American music scene has been so bad this last decade, they’ve got nothing else to talk about. 😛

    I was listening to the 90’s hits the other day, everything from Pearl Jam to Shania Twain, so I wasn’t some teenie bopper, and the music was far, far superior even then than it is now.

    I still contend the 60s and 70s (until disco) was the best time to be a music fan. Here’s something my mother sent me the other night that still sounds good after 50 years:

  304. “The principles which preclude you from voting for Hillary are the counterpoint to the ignorance which afflicted you when you voted for Obama.

    Hillary is a known substance as Obama was not to the uninitiated. Information drives the vote and lets us assemble our concept of a candidate to match our principles. Information and its scarcity told you your vote for Obama and your vote against Hillary was a proper decision.”

    That would have sounded so good if only the 2012 election hadn’t decided to matter.

  305. “Don’t know what you took personal Noah but suffice to say on an intellectual spectrum compared to me you’re a paste eating toddler with serious genetic issues. You’re a bully,and a coward. You’re also a liar. All of that is provable in this thread alone.”

    By all means back it up Alfie if your limited nature allows for it. Otherwise continue to be background noise.

    1) Took nothing personal, I don’t actually care enough. I just sometimes join the trash in the mud-pit of their own creation.
    2) Bully? I would say assertive and self assured. You will not find one instance of me being the initiator of a personal attack. I respond to personal attacks in kind.
    3) Coward? In what way? I have never failed to answer a question asked unlike yourself.
    4) Liar? By all means make your case. I typically always offer citations for everything I claim.

  306. It sounds so good because it is true. Information and its quality helps us choose our candidates.

    The 2012 election is not an entity. It didn’t decide to matter or not matter. The two opposing sides knew the election mattered.

    The press understood how much the election mattered, and they did what they could do to alter the truth. Lies elected Obama.

    Even so, Republicans did well from congressional elections down to the local level in spite of the press.

  307. No James, it’s not true. It’s mealy and excuse driven drivel. Rutherford voted for Obama with his eyes open in 2012.

    He’d do it again too. Principles be damned.

  308. Rutherford did NOT vote with his eyes open. He was clueless, because he created an Obama in his mind which did not exist. He saw through a glass darkly.

    New information provided by Obama’s actual behavior altered Rutherford’s perception of a man he thought he understood.

    It is presumptions of me to read Rutherford’s mind, but since I am sort of defending him, he probably won’t mind.

  309. Tex, on this we completely agree. Music basically peaked right before disco. Disco and rap turned music to crap. Some exceptions of course, like Pearl Jam, as you mentioned. Green Day and REM two others.

    The worst part though is that if you go back even further — 30’s and 40’s you hear songs with real lyrical ambition. Back then, if the lyrics weren’t poetry (i.e. there was rhyme) it didn’t get recorded.

  310. James, thanks for the defense.

    To some extent we all see what we want to see in a candidate. Candidates are not position papers. They are human beings with whom we either identify or we don’t. I’m quite sure Alfie’s admiration of Mitt Romney transcended policy. He genuinely liked the guy – found him a “decent fellow”. I’m not suggesting that was Alfie’s main motivator but it was a big part.

    In 2008, having the first black president was a distinct possibility and it wasn’t a John Lewis or Jesse Jackson with marbles in their mouth. I identified with Barack. I’m a stiff stuffy guy. I’m not hip. If you dropped me in the middle of Harlem I would not know what to do with myself. I’m a country club black. By that, I don’t mean wealth. I mean manners, grammar, striving for a certain dignified demeanor, something most folks in the ghetto don’t have time for. They are just trying to make it.

    So yes, I was kinda smitten in 2008. I viewed all the Bill Ayers, Rev Wright stuff as noise. Many of you viewed it as permanently condemning.

    2012 was a different picture. By then I knew Obama had more ego than was good for him. He also was not as progressive as I wanted him to be. As I stated in this venue, I wanted him primaried. It didn’t happen. I viewed Mitt as an old-fashioned phony whom no one ever really liked. The lib media pushed that profile. It wasn’t until after the election when I watched the Netflix documentary “Mitt” that I got a very different impression of him. Then of course we had Russia screwing around, making Obama’s mocking of Mitt look amateur in retrospect.

    As I told Muffy I can’t swear I’d vote differently today. I’m a liberal. To vote Republican, I’d have to be pretty repulsed by the Democratic nominee and to this minute I don’t find Obama as vile as the rest of you do. But this year the Democrats jumped the shark. They rigged the primary race. Their nominee is a walking talking scandal. There’s just no way I’m going to play along.

    There will be a new thread out later today.

  311. Principles don’t change depending on the direct object/person to which they are being applied. Only professed principles.

  312. I voted for the magic negro in 2008 and held out hope he would do what he had promised after he moved into the wh but lost all hope and respect when everything he did glowed evil and came to realize he was complete bullshit at about this point:

    Back then I actually thought voting mattered and that some people in the system had integrity. Been there, done that, got the tee shirt… Now I am not so deluded.

  313. You’re welcome Rutherford.

    Principles do change. They are essentially designed to regulate our behavior in specified environments. Name a morally acceptable behavior or belief connected with truth, stealing, courage etc. for example, and I will tell you where it’s turned on its head.

    Change the environment, and principles will change at least in some people to enhance their survival. I was raised to be a moral person, yet I found myself where what had been ingrained in me lowered my chances for survival. I adapted, and I am alive today. If any principle is immutable, it is self preservation.

  314. I would disagree that Rutherford has changed in any significant way. He still believes in Democratic ideology. What changed was dream of a black man being POTUS crashing headlong into reality and only thanks to email hacks from both Hillary and the DNC did we finally get conformation of what Conservatives knew all along. Conformation that the DNC are the party of the racists, that they will rig elections, that Hillary is possibly the most corrupt politician in our nations history. Had these hacks not come to light I believe that Rutherford would still be steadfastly defending and voting Democrat. I have no doubt in my mind that even given all of the evidence of the pervasiveness of the corruption in the Democratic party that R will be voting Democrat as soon as the next Messiah shows up. This was a choice forced on him, It was not a realization or a revelation. He will revert in short order.

  315. The GOP also rigs elections. Look no further than the treatment of Ron Paul four years ago. Look to this year and tell me why none of the other more qualified people were able to get the nomination? Conservatives don’t want trump. He is no republican nor conservative. His record proves it. How many bankruptcies and divorces and accusations of rape does one need to accumulate before one is disqualified in your playbook?

    The corruption is systematic. That you believe there is a difference on one side of the room from the other is, as you say, telling.

  316. If any principle is immutable, it is self preservation.

    I would add self-validation. Many of our choices are wrapped up in our self image and ego.

    I’m kinda tired of Muffy’s holier than thou attitude about my principles. Like her judgment has always been perfect and never influenced by her own personal needs and desires. She’s the perfectly principled person. Pfffft.

  317. Principles don’t change depending on the direct object/person to which they are being applied. Only professed principles.

    Maybe you were distracted by James’ twisting because you followed suit.

    Get back to me if you want to respond to the actual point and not some shoveled manure. Because as crafty as it’s sculpted, it’s still manure.

    As for your whining about my attitude, it was you who wrote, “Everything you say may come to fruition (regarding HRC) and it still doesn’t justify the gross irresponsibility of anyone voting for Donald Trump.”

    I’m merely challenging you to examine your own gross irresponsibility in voting for someone to whom your stated principles of accomplishment and honesty do not seem to apply.

    Unless you think they do.

    It just doesn’t seem that way when I see you struggling to apply your principles to Obama even in the hypothetical realm.

    And frankly the “he’s just retarded” defense ought to have embarrassed you. You were clueless (his word), did not have your eyes open, and voted for a figment of your imagination. In 2012. 😆 Fire your defense council, you’re doing better without him.

  318. The other challenge I’m giving you is that you condemn Hillary for the email server skullduggery but she would not be getting by with it if Obama, his DOJ, and the media were not protecting her.

    Hillary doing it is only half the issue for some of us. It’s her getting away with it that makes the blood boil.

  319. Add me to the list of people who will ignore you Noah. I outlined earlier where you cowardly evaded Huck and myself and showed you how,when and where you lied about answering Rutherford when his question had not been asked yet.You were just evading.
    As for your bullying. Your juvenile victory lap when Rutherford refused to debate you further secondary to your arrogance and ignorance was telling. The web is full of folks like you. Your omnipresent bullshit and general attitude that you’re the A #1 commenter when in fact you’re a pompous twat makes you far from unique. You’re a carbon copy of any of the legion of predominantly right wing,neocon,pro-Zionist, islamophobic, myopic wordsmiths that one finds.
    So continue to comment and feed what ever deep need your childhood neglected and have a nice day.

  320. @ Muffy for defining Trumpers. I find a lot of people who seem to want to be angry and actually don’t really know what Trump is about. They seem to appreciate his rhetoric but have no idea how he wants to accomplish anything. They have equal parts of blind rage and plain blindness.

    They’re the GOP version of the Dems “She has a vagina” folks.

  321. If there is a question I have ignored, someone has but to list that question and say that they do not feel I have addressed it. Personally I greatly appreciate the fact that you are no longer going to comment on anything I say anymore as you almost never add a positive contribution to the discussion.

    You are antisemitic and pro Islam so it is no surprise that we do not get along. As we are seeing in the Olympics, it is not the Jew that is being unreasonable but rather the radical Muslims that are missing the entire point of why the world comes together to compete. That I have alienated someone like yourself tells me I am on the right path. I have no use for your kind and the less you talk the better off the rest of the world is.

    The rest of your nonsense is nothing I have ever claimed and all comes from your vivid imagination. Your comments about my childhood say a lot more about your poisoned soul that it does about me.

  322. In an addition to the above, I generate on average hundreds of posts a day in the various activities that I am involved in. Anything you might have considered as being less than forthright or evasive just isn’t the case. I could not possibly keep track of everything that I give attention too on a daily basis in such a way as to be able to practice that kind of deception. I answer everything as I feel I understand it and I have invited everyone to call me out when they feel I have not address something to their satisfaction. There is nothing to be gained or lost here so I am not sure what motivation anyone has to be less than honest. Anything dishonest or deceptive that you are attempting to attach to me is more than likely a reflection of your own personal practices.

    http://www.dailywire.com/news/8340/watch-reporter-slams-state-department-am-i-not-aaron-bandler?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro

  323. Great article, great idea. What struck me in this article is one of the big reason these people cannot get work is because they have no ID. No ID no job. Voter ID laws would be the perfect way to get these individuals their IDs (for free) and permit them to go back to work to improve their lives, yet Democrats are adamant in keeping these much needed ID’s out of their hands.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-life/wp/2016/08/11/this-republican-mayor-has-an-incredibly-simple-idea-to-help-the-homeless-and-it-seems-to-be-working/

  324. I am not twisting anything. Ethics and principles do change with circumstances. Murder is a crime.

    However, other circumstances make murder permisable, even commendable. Principles and ethics are changing in the US. In another era, the Clintons would be serving time. Justice used to be a guiding principle, but no longer. Letting blood boil over Hillary or Trump is a waste of energy unless one has a plan to change it.

    I have asked Rutherford to applogise for his earlier vote, and he has rationalized my request away. People with his limited knowledge and understanding have damaged the United States.

    He appears to retain his liberal beliefs, but the behavior and character of his standard bearers has proven unworthy.

    I don’t care what is in his heart, only that he votes against Hillary.

  325. Hillary doing it is only half the issue for some of us. It’s her getting away with it that makes the blood boil.

    Well, thank you for giving me another reason not to vote for her. The DOJ as it currently exists will flourish under her. In fact, didn’t she promise Lynch a quid pro quo ahem continued employment?

  326. Drudge linked to a report that hackers have released Congressional Democrat’s cell phone numbers and e mails. The ultimate perps may be Russians. The charge is that Russians are trying to influence our election. Maybe they can accomplish what we are failing to do.

    Once, I would thought it was horrible. Now, I hope the Russians do even more.

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