Trump’s Improv Act Reveals American Hypocrisy

Many families have those topics you just don’t discuss. Uncle Albert’s death was not an accident; it was a suicide. Cousin Timmy went to jail on kiddie porn possession. Little Suzy is illegitimate and doesn’t know her father isn’t her biological father – but lots of folks in the family do know. Donald Trump is the guy at the family gathering who blurts all this stuff out. It’s all fact but you just don’t say these things. 

Donald Trump is a real estate developer and branding genius who has not given a bit of thought to nukes or abortion. His campaign is an improv act. He says whatever is top of mind regardless of how controversial the topic. But he’s not a lunatic. He says things that are there in the minds of people, in some cases almost tautological. He gets destroyed for it. 

So first abortion. Let us drop the pretense and admit that a sizeable number of pro-life advocates view pregnancy as the responsibility of the pregnant woman and they condemn her choice of abortion. After Trump’s comment that women who abort illegally should be “punished”, some pro-life advocates cried crocodile tears, expressing sympathy and compassion. The meme was “women considering abortion need our sympathy”. This dodges the question of what to do about women who abort. The truth is I’ve seen a good deal of judgmental condemnation of such women. Many of the pro-life folks up in arms about Trump are simply hypocrites. 

How many times have we heard politicians, including our President, say they will take “nothing off the table” militarily? Well, news flash folks, nukes are part of our arsenal. But we never talk about that. Such talk is dangerous. Of course just having the nukes in the first place is dangerous but somehow the danger lies in talking about using them. Trump’s comment that he would take nothing off the table, including nukes borders on tautology when nukes are clearly already on the table. In fact, we have them as a cautionary message to anyone who might think to nuke us first. And cautionary messages are clearly in Trump’s wheelhouse. 

Trump’s campaign is littered with comments many people want to say but think too rude to utter. Trump is not the first to think “McCain was a lousy pilot who shouldn’t have gotten shot down in the first place”, “Mexicans are bringing in drugs, stealing our jobs and getting free bennies”, “Islam is a diseased religion”, “women who abort are murderers who should be punished” and “I say just nuke them!”

None of those observations contributes to a positive agenda for running the country but they all reflect a sentiment held by more than a few, hence Trump’s consistent primary wins. If Trump serves no other purpose in this election cycle, it will be to uncover American hypocrisy and force the American  family to discuss its family secrets out in the open. 

What do you think? The bar is open. 

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901 thoughts on “Trump’s Improv Act Reveals American Hypocrisy

  1. That pretty well covers it, Rutherford.

    Political leaders on both sides have revealed their hypocrisy. The Obama administration has implemented policies which contribute to a sluggish economy. As a result millions of people can’t get jobs, and many millions more subsist on multiple part time jobs.

    Illegals flood into the US and our administration makes it easier for them to enter the system and take jobs natives could have.

    Our foreign policy is a disaster. People are not stupid.

    Sometimes, they pay attention. When they hear media denial and happy talk and when politicians, namely Republicans promise to fix the system when in reality, they are virtually in league with the liberals people get mad.

    Along comes Trump and to a lessor degree, Sanders to say what people are thinking. That crazy old uncle says what the family has already been muttering about.

    Elites of both sides want to keep their power and privilage, and to survive they need to keep upstarts like Trump or Sanders out of power. They sometimes appear to be less concerned with which party wins than that both sides are part of the privileged upper class.

    I think this so far peaceful revolution is born of media and upper class hyprocrisy, not that of the rebels though they can be hyprocrits too. The ruling political, business and media classes built the wood pile while rebels like Trump lit the match.

  2. Archie Bunker for president. lol

    The whole thing is a circus that employs the audience as part of the act and makes it real for a lot of people. When the circus moves on it will leave the same dusty dirty sticky feeling in the air.

  3. Why don’t we talk about the world’s biggest liar and hypocrite(s)? Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton

  4. That video is why I am not in the VA system. If I need medical treatment or an exam, my insurance or my wallet pays the bill.

    As I wrote, this discontent is the result of top down criminality and elitism. Someday , we may come to riots in Ukraine or civil war in Sarejevo.

  5. Yeah, baby! Yes We Can!

    For the kickoff of the 40th annual, 1981 Chittenden County United Way fund-raising drive in Burlington, Vt., the sponsors considered themselves fortunate to have as guests Mayor Bernard Sanders of Burlington and Gov. Richard Snelling of Vermont. . .

    ”I don’t believe in charities,” said Mayor Sanders, bringing a shocked silence to a packed hotel banquet room. The Mayor, who is a Socialist, went on to question the ”fundamental concepts on which charities are based” and contended that government, rather than charity organizations, should take over responsibility for social programs.

  6. Rutherford’s evolution on abortion consists of critiquing anti-abortion “folks” from time to time and judging their hearts. This is how I can cheerfully mock Rutherford’s “evolution” from at one time believing that Roe v Wade is a good compromise to his current stance that Roe v Wade is a good compromise. Turnaround is fair play.

    And he would like some sympathy. Perhaps we could have a telethon raising money for Rutherford’s Struggle. Listen as Rutherford rails against…Trump. Feel your heart break as he passionately decries…the anti-abortion people.

    I used to find it curious until I figured out why it is that Rutherford doesn’t naturally rail against the things that make abortion the statistical nightmare that it has become under his political heroes’ policies. He doesn’t run down lawmakers that make prosecuting illegal late term abortions next to impossible – he defends them. He votes for them. But he quite naturally and consistently airs his dismay at…….the anti-abortion people.

  7. ” ”I don’t believe in charities,” said Mayor Sanders, bringing a shocked silence to a packed hotel banquet room. The Mayor, who is a Socialist, went on to question the ”fundamental concepts on which charities are based” and contended that government, rather than charity organizations, should take over responsibility for social programs.”

    Well who would have thunk it?

  8. Nothing is as it seems. Especially if it’s on teevee. All a part of a play.

    Jamie Taete reports for Vice, Aug. 6, 2013, that Crowds on Demand is a company that will organize a crowd for you, on demand. The crowd can be fake fans for some celebrity or aspiring celebrity, or fake protesters for a cause.

    Since the company’s fake fan events are “super secret,” Taete attended instead “a fake protest” called “Purge Day USA” (to purge mental health problems) which the company organized in Los Angeles “in coordination with a charity” to “raise awareness about mental health issues”.

    http://fellowshipoftheminds.com/2016/04/04/new-breed-of-crisis-actors-fake-political-protesters/

  9. If only HRC and her lover Huma went to prison as they should.

    Sorry guys. The DOJ will never prosecute because it is corrupt. The fact that four of the criminal Hillary’s aides hired the same ex-Justice Department attorney to represent them in the FBI’s investigation speaks volumes. They have a common defense — one which they shouldn’t have if there was real risk of indictment.

    Imagine of guys like Rutherford understood the gravity and precedent that Obama’s DOJ leaves for us.

  10. OK Tigre so here is where you understand the law and I don’t. Are you saying that each aide would get their own attorney (to save their own ass) if there were any real risk of indictment? Why is having one attorney for all four a signal that indictment is not really on the table? (I’m not challenging you, I’m asking.)

  11. Huma Abedin on meeting HRC for the first time:

    “You know these things that happen in your life that just stick? She walked by and she shook my hand and our eyes connected and I just remember having this moment where I thought, ‘Wow, this is amazing.’
    And it just inspired me. You know, I still remember the look on her face. And it’s funny, and she would probably be so annoyed that I say this, but I remember thinking; ‘Oh my God, she’s so beautiful and she’s so little!’ ”

    http://www.people.com/article/huma-abedin-hillary-clinton-first-meeting

    If that ain’t some serious lesbo stuff, I don’t know what is. And her husband is freaky-deaky too! What a couple.

  12. Because a lawyer should have the sole interest of their sole client in mind. In representing the group, the only individual whose interest will be in mind is Hillary.

    It makes it an all-or-nothing thing for all of them, instead so allowing for any varying degrees of guilt or innocence.

    I’m just making assumptions based on years of watching Law and Order 🙂

  13. Yeah I was thinking along the lines of your Law and Order analysis. With separate attorneys each aide could turn on the other 3 to save his skin. With one attorney, that can’t happen.

    So, as you say, all four sing the same tune saving Hillary’s ass. OR maybe all four turn against HRC? Remember, that techie guy secured immunity. Why would he do that unless he had something that could bring HRC down?

  14. Correction: Huma is not one of the 4 aids that signed for joint representation with Wilkinson.

    This sets it out well enough though there’s more reason.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/04/hillary-clinton-fbi-strategy-emails-221435

    Remember that lying to investigators is what snares the usual non-participants. With singular representation, the strategy as you would imagine is to interview them separately but simultaneously so they can’t tailor their testimony. With on lawyer as lead, that can’t happen, and in fact a unified story is demanded or they all hang together. That is risky as shit for the lessers unless there is a lot of certainty that they’re gonna skate with the story they have assembled. In fact, there could be no immunity for the lessers now since they have a joint defense pact.

    And Wilkinson is a damn fine lawyer. She wouldn’t risk the consequences of a potential conflict among them (which would taker her out from representing any of them and have all kinds of problems with potential waivers of privilege and assertions of the 5th) unless she was damn near certain a case was not going to be made.

  15. And let’s not forget these are dems and this is Obama’s DOJ.

    My hope is that the FBI refers for indictment and when it is not brought outrage ensues.

  16. DiGenova questioned why the DOJ would greenlight the arrangement in the first place, arguing that it “presents an amazing conflict of interest” and allows for coordination of stories.

    “If it’s a serious case, you don’t run the risk of having all sorts of collusion between people — it’s just not done,” said diGenova. “If the department has accepted that, that tells me they’re walking down the line of not bringing a case, because they’re not serious if they have accepted that arrangement … They’ve thrown in the towel.”

  17. Tigre, do you buy what I’m hearing on lib tv outlets that FBI chief is a straight shooter and non-partisan?

    If so, then your scenario (an ignored indictment recommendation) could indeed happen.

  18. Yes. I believe Comey is probably a straight shooter. Do you know how many investigators they have working this? The rumor is that they are already furious. The usual response is leaks. I understand the “threat” against the usual response has already been made by Obama’s joke DOJ. Still I could see a lot of these guys saying “to hell with it — this is bullshit.”

  19. “How does the DOJ control whom someone gets for an attorney? Isn’t that outside their purview?”

    I was surprised by the “greenlight” comment too. Disqualification due to a conflict of interest is not ordinarily for an outsider to the relationship to assert. So, this is purely a guess. I think there may be an “interest of justice” type exception since the DOJ controls the ultimate prosecution. In other words, there may be a rule that if there is an inherent conflict in possible avenues, the DOJ must advise against the joint representation because the potential conflict may not be known to those being investigated.

    Again, just a guess. Otherwise it is a matter of strategy for the lawyer/client.

  20. Two things jumped out at me from the article.

    1) The attorney is a Clinton donor.
    2) I think it was implied Hillary may be paying their legal bill.

    As a side note, the attorney’s boutique practice switching from billable hours to service based billing is being mirrored in the bookkeeping profession where more bookkeepers like me are doing value based billing instead of hourly.

  21. Why would being a Clinton donor strike you as notable?

    I think Hillary should have to foot the bill for the whole investigation. Every penny.

  22. Any sense that the attorney representing the aides is attached to HRC implies she’s indirectly defending HRC. Same thing with Clinton paying the legal bills.

    This means Wilkinson (sp) is defending Team Clinton and there’s no chance these aides are going to rat HRC out.

  23. Wilkinson is politically connected and got that way through donations. Lawyers donate to Judge’s campaigns. The fact the she donated doesn’t strike me as anything other than playing the game.

    However, knowing that she’ll likely act the direction of the Hillary mafia is a given — ’cause she, you know, plays the game.

    Another one that shares my view:

    https://jonathanturley.org/2016/04/03/clinton-aides-agree-to-be-represented-by-the-same-lawyer-in-answering-questions-on-email-scandal/

  24. “Why would they answer any questions to begin with? Just plead the 5th?”

    Good question It implies guilt, but so what? DOJ doesn’t care. They’re just a politically motivated sub-branch of the WH at this point. Shit, look at the Lois Lerner/IRS scandal (a/k/a to the uninitiated as a “nothing burger”).

    The bigger question is the possibility of an immunity deal that they have collectively given up.

    This goes to my point. Wilkinson is no dummy. They’ve got to be feeling pretty good that the DOJ won’t do anything with this — in advance of a completion of the investigation. That’s both twisted and predictable.

  25. To clarify, when undertake joint representation it means that there are no privileges or confidentiality among the jointly represented clients. Here the joint representation can only serve one interest: telling a unified/consistent story. Since they’re all under investigation, there shouldn’t be so much confidence that a conflict doesn’t already exist (in story and interests) without a nod and wink.

  26. Tigre, I was wondering about this. Are you saying with joint representation, attorney-client privilege does not apply for each separate party with respect to the other parties?

  27. If I understand your question, no. I am saying that the privilege (which includes work product/trial strategy confidentially doctrines) does not apply as between the jointly represented clients. They are one for all and all for one.

    As to the jointly represented clients and the rest of the world, the privileges can generally still be maintained — until there is a falling out or conflict. In that event, the attorney, who still owes duties to their former client(s), is placed in an untenable position with respect to duties owed and confidentiality to the existing client. The lawyer would have divided loyalties if info obtained from one of the jointly represented clients impacts the other.

    So, for example, imagine what would happen if one of the aids said “I didn’t know it was classified, I was ordered to send the email by Hillary without checking” when Hillary’s story is “I instructed my staff to never send information marked classified so if they did it wasn’t my fault” (or some similar scenario). However, let’s say Hillary admitted in privileged meetings with the lawyer outside the presence of the other jointly represented clients that she can’t say for sure whether she made the instruction recalled by the aid. Now imagine the aid is indicted based on Hillary’s account. How can the attorney simultaneously protect the interests of the aid and Hillary? What if the aid is aware of a document that exonerates him/her in the attorney’s possession but that document was withheld from production to investigators/prosecutors based on “privilege” (or some other limitation) in order to protect Hillary? What happens next? The aid may decide that they want to waive the privilege that previously existed rather than go to jail for the lying scumbag.

    Anyway, you can imagine hundreds of scenarios where the attorney’s duties of loyalty and confidentiality and zealous representation depart when undertaking joint representation. There are often benefits of joint representation too (as Wilkinson determined, and I myself often engage) but they depend on near clairvoyance when interests are not aligned identically at the outset.

    Or. . . the lawyer knows there’s no risk of prosecution.

  28. If the FBI refers HRC to the DOJ for indictment, does anyone know if that referral is sealed or public knowledge?

    I ask because if it is public knowledge and the DOJ declines to indict, that still badly tarnishes HRC (and makes the DOJ look bad). If the referral is sealed and not leaked then no one is the wiser.

  29. I’ve readily admitted that the Dem primary process is fucked up with coin flips and super delegates.

    But make no mistake. The GOP process is no better. Folks in North Dakota and Colorado don’t even get to vote. Pure delegates running the show. Then there are some states where the delegates are unbound so the people’s votes hardly matter at all. Then there are any number of shenanigans that can be pulled by the rules committee of the convention.

    Poolman is right. It’s a circus.

  30. After Wisconsin Loss, Trump Accuses ‘Lyin’ ‘Puppet’ ‘Trojan Horse’ Cruz Of Trying To ‘Steal’ Nomination

    And Rutherford wonders why Trump isn’t my candidate of choice?

  31. Ah. Morning Joe. What would I do with the deeeep thinkers like Bubbles Brezinski. The daily critique of Trump and Crus is like group of catty teenage girls. Turns out Bubbles etc. doesn’t like Cruz because he’s mean and stuff. Absolute disgust. Who’d have thunk it.

    And she, like Rutherford, will vote for that conspicuously corrupt twat Hillary.

  32. “You already did.”

    Yeah… True. Thought a little Trump medicine would be good for the spineless GOP.

  33. I agree with el Tigre. My favorite mode of voting would be with a .45, but under no circumstances would I do it. I will still vote for Trump if he is the candidate because the Democrats are even worse.

  34. Trump will destroy the GOP if he hasn’t already.

    I think you’re right. I already think the election has been thrown to Clinton.

    Any of you guys surprised at how easily Republicans have been so easily duped? I wasn’t kidding when I called it Hope and Change Redux.

    In fairness to Rabbit, for a short time Trump was kind of appealing because he was so politically incorrect. But in pretty short order, it became pretty apparent to me, Trump was not serious and dangerous, and could possibly be a Hillary trojan horse.

    I’ll bet you money Trump only posed himself as a protest candidate, and even he became surprised at his appeal. I think what started as self-promotion has become delusions of grandeur.

  35. The GOP’s weak and pathetic stand against one of the most dishonest presidents in American history created Trump.

    Hell… I almost think if Trump didn’t exist, there would be another guy just like Trump filling the void.

    We’ve entered a new phase. Of course the mob is capable of being hoodwinked by demagogue douche bags. That’s waht defines a mob.

    The fact is, a mob exists. And its not going away. The mob is capable of alot worse things then voting for a blow hard.

  36. “The GOP destroyed the GOP.”

    Fair ’nuff. The GOP itself may be the disease and Trump the symptom but sure as fuck not the cure.

    I spoke a lawyer engaged as co-counsel for another party in a big case. He’s a smart-as-fuck-bad-ass trial lawyer with professional affiliations to WWE. We were yucking it up over that video of Trump getting shaved by Vince McMahan and he said something in all seriousness that really resonated:

    “Trump is a pro ‘rassler. Trump is a big fan of WWE and he’s learned to imitate the whole schtick, which often involves going off-script. The threats, challenges and theatrics are all cut from the same cloth. It’s really the same.”

    The more I think about it, the more right I think that observation is.

  37. Americans get the democracy they deserve. I think the GOP has destroyed the GOP but they didn’t do that without the help of the voters.
    Candidates at every level in every corner of the nation were given the green light from people who failed to really think about anything. Hung up on one or two issues or wrapped up in a delusion the American voter helped to make the GOP what it has become.
    Trump is just another nail in the coffin. People upped the stupid and are in no way capable of understanding the paths that lie ahead such as a contested convention.
    I will absolutely NOT vote for Trump and that by no means dictates that I have to shut up in January.

  38. Im glad they got a contested convention.

    The GOP will come out of this better. Like a phoenix. There will be one day hundreds of smart candidates willing to not be pushed around by the fascist left.

    This is the perfect eye opener for the GOP.

    I won’t vote for Trump in the presidential election, but I will give a toast to the meathead.

  39. I have to agree with you, Alfie. The Republican Party due to changing demographics and social mores is a shell of its former glory of the 80s. Somewhere along the lines, the party morphed from Reagan to the cliche ‘compassionate Conservatism’ – a made up word for moderate, big government, DC Republican to pander for more minority votes, more elderly votes, more buying of votes. Stupid.

    And Rabbit is right. The GOP ultimately is responsible for destroying the GOP. The quality of the candidates (and I think Cruz is on the right path contrary to most, though not Reagan) brought forth since 1988 has been substandard. And the voters in their apathy have played along. I actually thought Romney a step up, not a step down. And I say that is one who I believe is a REAL conservative, pragmatic enough to know you change the nation in a year. It would take at the very least, an entire generation to stop the slide.

    The Democratic candidates in the same period have been so bad to be awful. But “free stuff” leaves very little room for error in a national election.

  40. Ann Coulter:

    Cruz has flipped to Trump’s side on every important political issue of this campaign — which only ARE issues because of Trump. These are:

    — Quadrupling the number of foreign guest workers to help ranchers and farmers get cheap labor: Cruz was for it, and now is against it.

    — Legalizing illegal aliens: Cruz was for it, and now is against it.

    — The Trans-Pacific Partnership deal: Cruz was for it, and now is against it.

    — Building a wall: Cruz was against it, and now is for it.

    If Trump is destroying the GOP…… I like the way the ruins look.

    There should never have been a need for Trump.

  41. After Wisconsin Loss, Trump Accuses ‘Lyin’ ‘Puppet’ ‘Trojan Horse’ Cruz Of Trying To ‘Steal’ Nomination

    In keeping with the theme of this post, THIS is why folks LIKE Donald. He speaks the truth others dare not admit to.

    Whether Tex likes it or not, Ted is a Trojan Horse. The establishment hates Ted Cruz. They hope to use him to deprive Donald of the votes he needs for an outright win. Then, at the contested convention, Ted will be tossed aside and Paul Ryan will be nominated.

    A week before he endorsed Cruz, Scott Walker said he wanted a contested convention with a new candidate put up for nomination.

    Lindsay Graham, who endorsed Cruz still can’t say the man’s name without vomiting in his mouth a little.

    Mitt Romney supports Cruz only in the states he can win (to stop Trump). He urged Ohioans to vote for Kasich.

    A stable society and a stable political party depend on people keeping up the charade. Trump will not do that and he is therefore destroying everything in his path.

  42. You have to say this for Trump: he creates some interesting bedfellows. Imagine Andrew Sullivan and Tex Taylor standing in solidarity. Sullivan was on Hardball tonight with his bald head on fire.

  43. Whether Tex likes it or not, Ted is a Trojan Horse. The establishment hates Ted Cruz.

    Frankly, Rush Limbaugh has stated the truth far more accurately than the Trumpettes and you, who is always wrong.

    The Establishment hates Trump. They fear Cruz….

  44. Tex, when it comes to Cruz being a Trojan Horse, fear and hatred are a distinction without a difference.

    The bottom line is the party bosses don’t want Cruz and are using him to stop Trump. Once Trump falls short of 1237, Cruz will have served his purpose and will, to quote Mitch McConnell, be dropped like a hot rock.

    P.S. He called the Senate majority leader a liar. Do you REALLY think the establishment will let him be POTUS?

  45. I thought that alien saucer vid would have a punchline like when you zoom out its a butt crack or something.

    As it stands, Poolman will have trouble sleeping tonight. Unless that’s Pool’s white SUV. 😀😀😀

  46. He called the Senate majority leader a liar. Do you REALLY think the establishment will let him be POTUS?

    Accurately called the Senate Majority Leader a liar. On the Senate floor. I provided the speech here. It was one of the best speeches I’ve ever heard to – 55 minutes off the cuff, no hesitations. Utterly impressive, politically incorrect to the max.

    Do you really think Mitch McConnell is popular with the Republican voters? If it will stop Donald Trump from being the nominee, I can virtually guarantee Ted Cruz will be nominated, especially if John Kasich was the V.P..

    I’m not buying this argument some outside candidate is going to be nominated. The Establishment is stupid. They’re not insane unless the really do want their party to go the way of The Whigs. Trump and Cruz have consistently pulled 60-80% of the vote in every state but 2 or 3 – and that was when there were a dozen candidates to choose from.

    And I really doubt they would give the nomination to a poorly performing Kasich either, even if he is the most likely candidate to win.

    It’s either Trump outright or, Trump or Cruz. And those two personally hate each other, with neither interested in the VP position.

    Either way, Hillary Rotten Clinton is your next President, unless she’s wearing a size 32 XXX large orange pant, Size ½A orange blouse.

  47. “unless she’s wearing a size 32 XXX large orange pant, Size ½A orange blouse.”

    They would still elect her.

  48. Trump and Cruz have consistently pulled 60-80% of the vote in every state but 2 or 3 – and that was when there were a dozen candidates to choose from.

    I assume you mean together they pulled 60 to 80. They certainly have not done so alone.

    I could be wrong but I don’t think Kasich has any interest in VP. He’d help with Ohio so that would make him an attractive choice. I doubt he’d team with Cruz and he sure as hell won’t go with Trump.

    I heard a very interesting ticket floated today: Ryan/Nikki Haley.

  49. “I heard a very interesting ticket floated today: Ryan/Nikki Haley”

    People won’t turn out for 2 open border proponents on the same ticket.

  50. That’s right Tex. Consider Finland and Estonia which is almost a Scandinavian country. Estonia is genetically and economically related to Finland.

    The number of Fins registering cars in Estonia is growing because it costs about 5,000 Euros to register and pay taxes on a car in Finland and about 300 Euros in Estonia. I don’t remember the exact numbers, but these show the financial advantage.

    Estonians can move to Finland legally or illegally and get health and other benefits. Some start secret businesses in each country to avoid taxes and to earn more money.

    One Estonian lives in Finland with a car registered in Estonia because he can’t afford Finish taxes, though he has a good job. He returns to Estonia twice a month to see his wife and relatives. His Ukrainian wife refuses to move because she doesn’t want to learn Finish.

  51. You know what they never talk about, James? These utopian European countries?

    The cost of living. Price of gas today in Norway, Denmark, etc? About $6.00 a gallon. Granted, they may not drive as much, but they don’t have to because their countries are our logistically our states. Anybody priced food in Western Europe? Expensive.

    We’ve got some friends from France who visit a couple of times a decade. Get outside DC, NYC, LA, they marvel at how cheaply we can live, the size of our houses, the number of cars we can afford, the restaurant bill, etc…Their first request is always to go to the outlet malls to buy designer clothes, happily paying the airline freight to home.

    Bernie Sanders is a foolish man who never understood how good he has got it now. And in large part, he should be thanking capitalism for providing the funding which allows him to live large on the federal dole.

  52. Stop drinking the wing nut kook aid. Ryan is not an open borders guy. His comments and policy stances have been misconstrued and grossly manipulated.

    @ Tex you make the correct observation about European geography. That truth applies to another of the Lefts dream things,high speed rail. Although the USA has made some serious errors regards our transportation infrastructure looking at Europe or Japan and comparing it to America is ridiculous.

  53. Rail travel only works when everything adds up and in the USA there is always one variable that goes awry. Something else to note is that as euro-rail has faced some issues low cost airlines like Ryan Air are biting into the trains. Most notably the overnight trains are spiraling downward regards profitability.

  54. I saw the Prime Minister of Estonia on The Daily Show of all places. Seems to me in some respects they’ve got their shit together. Simple tax filing and voting by computer.

    Once again, maybe this arrogant country could learn something from them.

    The essence to be gleaned from the Sanders campaign is not necessarily the specifics but the general notion that the US not-invented-here syndrome bites us in the ass. We are not the fucking experts on everything. We can learn from other countries.

  55. Rutherford wants all the country people and rust belt motherfuckers like me to flip the bill so that city hipsters and business men can cruise back and forth from New York and Boston.

    I like the open road. Only suckers depend on mass transit. Like being a turkey on a turkey farm.

    I can’t even begin to explain what a cluster fuck government’s standardized testing scheme is this year in MI. It’s like a chapter straight out of Catch 22. Holy shit, the more they get involved the more they fuck things up. It’s actually so FUBARed, it’s entertaining.

  56. Agreed. The Scandinavian fetish on the left cracks me up. They back back a few days in Norway and think they got if figured out.

  57. “He returns to Estonia twice a month to see his wife and relatives. His Ukrainian wife refuses to move because she doesn’t want to learn Finish.”

    Dude has two wives. No matter he can’t afford shit.

  58. You are right, Tex. I met a Finish vloger when she visited the United States. She made some of the same points here about the size of the US relative to smaller European countries. She knew the price of gas was much higher in Europe, but she did not know how much more expensive consumer goods are in Europe than in the US.

    Lotta took as much as she could legally carry back to Finland.

  59. Yes, Rutherford, we can learn from other countries, even if it is what not to do.

    Sweden, for example has a large Finish speaking population, but numbers of Arabic speakers are surpassing the Finish language.

  60. Ha Ha, Rabbit! I think he has only his Ukrainian wife.

    I am surprised at how porous some of those borders are. The US isn’t the only country with the problem.

  61. And here’s Alfie running to the rescue of his buddy Mitt’s former best friend.

    If you’re going to defend Ryan and his policies then put some fucking effort into it, man. “Stop drinking the kool aid” isn’t going to get it.

    Frankly, I’m not sure how you can keep his immigration policy stances straight, seeing as he changes them like underwear.

  62. Because I’ve actually read them Huck and can appreciate the pragmatism even where I may disagree with it. That said he is absolutely NOT open borders in fact he consistently rates and votes for securing the border. Wing nut ” press” lead by a hit piece from Breitbart completely falsified Ryan’s position and you echoed it.
    Outside of Fantasy Island immigration reform will have a lot of components so when you’re capable of getting off the island we can have a conversation until then STFU!

  63. “If Trump is destroying the GOP…… I like the way the ruins look.”

    I like that.

    I think a lively convention that can tip the scales against a very lucky candidate with as high unfavorables as Trump isnt a bad thing.

    Its risky but worth the risk.

  64. I find it hard to believe Ryan would run for VP twice (and then possibly lose twice). If you reverse the ticket, I tend to agree with John Dickerson of Face the Nation who says Kasich doesn’t want to be anyone’s VP. He’s too volatile.

  65. Muffy, that article barely scratches the surface but ought to tell anyone with a brain, “even accepting everything she says as true, how could anyone as reckless and dishonest as Hillary when it comes to security possibly be qualified to serve as commander-in-chief?”

    Yet the whole thing is generally ignored by broadcast media and the usual idiot lefty media outlets who prefer to talk about primaries and Trump.

  66. I have read similar articles. Of course, the liberal media ignores the story. Hillary has been their choice since Obama. It is her turn now.

    The candidate with high negative ratings is easier to find than the opposite this year, because people are tired and angry. Our ” democracy” suffers when too many people don’t care and they let the relative few dedicated voters dictate the terms.Some of those people are more interested in making a point than in winning an election.

  67. I’m actually just busting your balls a little bit, Alfie.

    The truth is I don’t plan on voting for any Republicans any sooner than I’ll be voting for any Democrats.

    But that doesn’t change that a lot of people see Ryan as an open borders politician, and he’s got a lot of work to do to repair that perception. Taking Nikki Haley, a person who chose to attack members of her own party rather than the opposition following the SOTU address, would work against that effort.

    The Grand Ole Party needs to bring in new and exciting people, not prop up establishment people. And make no mistake about it, anyone with the credentials “Speaker of the House” is part of the establishment.

    Who Republicans need to be looking at is people like Mia Love. The up-and-comers are your only hope.

  68. Its true Sanders and Kasich have relatively high poll ratings among the people polled compared to other candidates, but according to a Huffington list of polls, they barely reach 50% favorable, and most polls show them in the forties. In both cases, the results imply that over half of the population while not actively expressing their disdain is less than enthusiastic about the two men.

    Granted, it is better than the twenties for candidates like Cruz, but in my opinion, those two candidates do not have high favorable ratings. Their advantage is only a matter of degree. If you asked more than a niche group, with knowledge of each candidate a different picture would emerge. I am making an assumption which I believe is correct.

    . Poll numbers are not naturally occuring information. They are a commodity available for anyone to purchase with extrapulations made from a small sample. Neither Kashc or Sanders has much to brag about..

  69. “Muffy, that article barely scratches the surface but ought to tell anyone with a brain, “even accepting everything she says as true, how could anyone as reckless and dishonest as Hillary when it comes to security possibly be qualified to serve as commander-in-chief?”

    Yet the whole thing is generally ignored by broadcast media and the usual idiot lefty media outlets who prefer to talk about primaries and Trump.”

    Could not agree with you more, Tigre.

  70. The up-and-comers are your only hope.

    I’m sorry. I thought Ted Cruz and Rand Paul were supposed to be up-and-comers.

    By the way, as much as the bar patrons hate Rachel Maddow, there is something to be learned from her now and then. Ted Cruz has actually LESS political experience than Barack Obama had in 2008. His Senate seat is the only elected office he’s ever had and the circumstances of that win were unusual in that he defeated the then Lt. Governor for the GOP Senate nomination in an unusually low voter turnout situation.

    On a side note, who could be luckier than the Donald? After a disastrous week leading up to Wisconsin, the dude marches into New York with a primary contender who condescendingly talked about “New York values”. Now Trump and the local tabloids are making Cruz shove those words right up his ass. LOL

  71. The dem process seems designed to preserve the candidate with sky-high unfavorability ratings.

    While Debbie Wasserman Schultz has clearly tried to make the process work for Hillary, one cannot avoid the votes. Hillary, as remarkably unfavorable as she is, is still getting the votes and therefore the delegates. Much to my chagrin, minorities are the main mover in this phenomenon.

  72. NY GOP Primary kind of a joke. Sure you get the delegates but you’ll never win the state in the general.
    @ Huck balls busted – check. I will say I do like Ryan in general and that his immigration position at least affords dialog. Ryan is one of a handful of GOPers in my view who is willing and able to bring ideas to the table. It is amazing how the Right has turned into a black hole void

  73. I agree Rutherford. Minorities are driving this process and many of them don’t care if their candidate wins as long as they make a point.

  74. Blacks will again determine the next president of the United States. I said years ago – three times as a matter of fact 😆 – that it would be this way years ago. James and Rutherford argued with me, natch.

  75. From that long-ass Tribune article I thought the kicker was:

    Her first known BlackBerry communication through the basement server came on Jan. 28, 2009, when Clinton exchanged notes with Army Gen. David H. Petraeus, then chief of the U.S. Central Command, according to a State Department spokeswoman. It has not been released.

    Her first communication was to a dude later convicted of mishandling classified info.

    I’m not getting this. I don’t think you have to be an attorney to see she broke the law — even if only a misdemeanor, if this article has any credibility at all.

    What the hell is the Dem party going to do if she gets indicted after the convention?

  76. NY GOP Primary kind of a joke. Sure you get the delegates but you’ll never win the state in the general.

    The same can be said of the Dem primaries in the South. HRC swept them in primary season but she’ll lose all of them in the general.

  77. It is hard to honestly declare any one group responsible for winning or losing an election.

    Blacks always contribute to Democratic totals, but I think they are more fragmented this year. Some don’t like Hillary and may not vote because Obama isn’t running.
    Picking a single cause is complicated if not impossible. If I had to choose, I would pick Hispanics as the ultimate power.

    What do you think, Rutherford?

  78. Ryan has only concretely disappointed me once and that was during the 2012 race when he talked about makers and takers. I expect that kind of bullshit from the boys here on the bar stools. He has since apologized. I accept his apology.

    Ryan v Clinton – I will vote Ryan without batting an eye.

    Oh, and Tigre — I do have a two word escape hatch regarding Clinton.

    Jill
    Stein

  79. From wiki — this gave me a chuckle. We could use Gracie Allen today.

    In 1940, the team launched a similar stunt when Allen announced she was running for President of the United States on the Surprise Party ticket.[4]:184–193 Burns and Allen did a cross-country whistlestop campaign tour on a private train, performing their live radio show in different cities. In one of her campaign speeches Gracie said, “I don’t know much about the Lend-Lease Bill, but if we owe it we should pay it.” Another typical Gracie-ism on the campaign trail went like this: “Everybody knows a woman is better than a man when it comes to introducing bills into the house.” The Surprise Party mascot was the kangaroo; the motto was “It’s in the bag.” As part of the gag, Allen (in reality, the Burns and Allen writers) published a book, Gracie Allen for President, which included photographs from their nationwide campaign tour and the Surprise Party convention. Allen received an endorsement from Harvard University,[7] and went on to receive 42,000 votes in the general election in November 1940; only six other female United States presidential and vice-presidential candidates have received more votes in a presidential election.

  80. James, it appears Northern blacks are not drinking the Clinton kool-aid in the quantities that Southern blacks did. That is not to say she doesn’t have strong black support in the North but it doesn’t match the ridiculous 90+% numbers down below. Hispanics are becoming increasingly influential.

    But quite frankly, I’m much more interested in the woman vote should Hillary get nominated. I actually think most women are too smart to be driven by their vaginas. We will see,

  81. “Oh, and Tigre — I do have a two word escape hatch regarding Clinton.

    Jill
    Stein”

    I didn’t realize until now that the terms “escape hatch” and “self destruct button” were synonymous to dems.

  82. Hey as a Dem I’m in a no-win situation. Vote for Hillary and get a crook. Don’t vote for Hillary and get the same crook. Don’t vote at all and feel like an asshole.

    No Bernie, no Ryan, then it’s Jill Stein – a Harvard girl through and through who got herself arrested after being nominated for potus in 2012. Now that’s my kind of crazy!

  83. I agree, Rutherford. I think especially young women aren’t as enthusiastic about Hillary as older women. Some of them will stay home if Bernie isn’t the nominee.

  84. Jill Stein is a real moonbat isn’t she? Compared to her world, the Soviet Union was a capitalist paradise.

    As a farm owner, I would be one of the winners. You could build a cabin on some of my land if you could make it out of the city in time.

  85. Whether they turn out or stay home – blacks will determine the next president of the United States.

    Hispanics won’t have the numbers to do that until 2020 or 2024.

  86. CNN Politics: Latino Vote: Will the sleeping giant finally chose the next president” Feb 19, 2016

    Latinos are “Now the nation’s largest minority.”Rubio and Cruz share of the Latin vote was the highest of any Hispanic presidential candidate in any other presidential contest.

    US News “Hispanics could hold Sway over the 2016 Election ”

    “Univision Host:Hispanic vote to jump from 12 to 16 million, will decide presidency” Washington Examiner April 20, 2015

    City University of New York “Could Latinos Choose the Next President?”
    States in which Latinos could determine the margin of victory in the 2016 Presidential election”
    Feb 2016

    We are both speculating and we will have to wait until the election to know. I think the Hispanics will determine the next president if it is a close election. Trump and others have made them at least more committed to vote than before.

    If the election is not close various combinations of whites will choose the next president.

  87. I should not have written “white” since most Hispanics are at least partly caucasion. I meant traditional European types like Poles, Brits and Italians. .

  88. Who’s Jorge?

    Blacks will only make a difference in the general if the white vote is close. With no black on the ticket, the black vote will fall back to prior levels. Obama was the beneficiary of racial loyalty.

  89. We agree, Rutherford.

    Jorge Ramos is one of the most popular Hispanic news casters and anchors in America. He is well-educated and influential. His opinions carry weight. The article I cited had information to support his conclusions.

    He is blunt and sometimes travels into advocacy land.

  90. “It’s tough to overstate just how critical black voters have become to today’s Democratic coalition, particularly when it comes to the Electoral College. Deconstructing exit poll data from 2012, African-American voters accounted for Obama’s entire margin of victory in seven states: Florida, Maryland, Michigan, Nevada, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Virginia. Without these states’ 112 electoral votes, Obama would have lost decisively. African-Americans also accounted for almost all of Obama’s margin in Wisconsin. All of these states, except Maryland, will be crucial 2016 battlegrounds.

    But what about Latinos? As it turns out, Latinos accounted for Obama’s margin of victory in just four states totaling 49 electoral votes: Colorado, Florida, Nevada, and New Mexico. According to our number crunching, had ZERO Latinos voted in 2012, Obama would have lost the popular vote but still would have won the White House with 283 Electoral votes. Why? Because fairly or unfairly, Latino voters tend to be disproportionately clustered in states like California, Illinois, New York and Texas which simply aren’t Electoral College battlegrounds.”

    From the above Cooks link…the African-American coalition is THE critical keystone for a Democratic Electoral College victory

    William Frey agrees.
    http://www.brookings.edu/experts/freyw

  91. Would a Clinton indictment drag Obama into it? He was on the emails – some of the most highly classified one as it turns out. Whether they were classified at the time, did the WH say they weren’t aware of her server?

  92. “Whether they were classified at the time, did the WH say they weren’t aware of her server?”

    10 years ago, maybe. This is the Obama Era. Bald face lies are the norm. Most people expect it and don’t even really mind it. They all lie, they say.

    Nihilism rules the day.

    There is no way Obama didnt know what Hillary was up to. And he is just guilty as she is. Therein lies the problem.

  93. “He famously got kicked out of a Trump presser.”

    His daughter works for the Clinton campaign.”

    Lol.

    “Once again, maybe this arrogant country could learn something from [Estonia].”

    Estonia’s vibrant economic development owing to Mart Laar who famously relied on Milton Friedman’s to formulate his country’s economic policy of removing price controls, cutting regulations and welfare programs, selling state-owned businesses, introducing a new currency, and instituting a simple, flat-rate income tax plan. And from this, Rutherford the economic illiterate states:

    “The essence to be gleaned from the Sanders campaign is not necessarily the specifics but the general notion that the US not-invented-here syndrome bites us in the ass. We are not the fucking experts on everything. We can learn from other countries.”

    You are a gem R.

  94. “I’m not getting this. I don’t think you have to be an attorney to see she broke the law — even if only a misdemeanor, if this article has any credibility at all.

    And only a few months back, Rutherford’s hero said he was “sick and tired” of hearing about Hillary Clinton’s “damn” email scandal.

    I believe the term is “nothingburger.” 😆

  95. “And only a few months back, Rutherford’s hero said he was “sick and tired” of hearing about Hillary Clinton’s “damn” email scandal.”

    Yup. The very guy who wants to further empower Big Gov didn’t “give a damn”.

    Ever notice the very people who want to grow dark lord Leviathan never “give a damn”?

  96. Tigre you make arguments more complicated than they need be. I wasn’t making any comment on whether or not Estonia was Friedmanesque. I pointed to two simple things … a very easy tax collection system and computer based voting. Again, the reason some countries do better than we do is we refuse to learn from anyone.

    Made in America yeeeeeee haaaaa!

  97. I’m not buying what you are selling. I have cited sources which are as convinced Hispanics may be the deciding factor as your sources believe blacks will elect a new president. Neither of us is psychic, so we will have to wait and see.

  98. As for Bernie, both Tigre and Rabbit are ignoring the obvious. You can’t make a big deal out of staying on the issues and then call your opponent a criminal.

    Sanders set the parameters of his campaign such that the email thing was off limits. And he may be crazy like a fox. If the indictment goes forward, she’s out and he can say he always took the high ground.

  99. Muffy keeps citing 2012 stats.

    As Larry Wilmore says, we are witnessing the “unblackening” of the WH. Hence we will also see an unblackening of the electorate.

  100. I am as certain that Hillary Obama and the rest of them are criminals as I am that Hispanics have a better chance than blacks to be the deciding force in our next election. I may be wrong about Latinos but not about our Democrat leaders.

    Neb Sen Ben Sass has taken the result of Obama’s illegal executive order which has killed people to Congress.

    An illegal who had been in the system was drunk and street racing. His car ran into Sarah Root’s car a day after she graduated from college.

    The judge set a low bail, and the illegal’s brother, also an illegal paid it. No one has seen the alleged killer since. He is probably back in Hondorus,

    ICE initially told the police they could do nothing because Sarah Root was still alive and they were not able to detain the illegal because of Obama’s executive order. Then, they changed their story.

    Sass still hasn’t gotten an acceptable answer from ICE. Root is only one of several cases.

  101. Hey Rutherford? I have a personal medical question. This mask you wear for your COPD? Does it give you anxiety? I mean anxiety that makes you so anxious and irrational, you want to burn the house down with you in it?

    Because tonight, I was forced to take my first anxiety tablet and at present, it appears to be working. I no longer feel like I’m living in a coffin and can actually sit at my computer. Long story but it is related to something I’m fighting with my v-tach that has literally kicked my fight or flight response into turned on 24 hours a day the last week – I have a pretty good idea what a meth psychosis feels like now. It wasn’t meth I abused but a COPD steroid – prescribed. It ain’t pretty. I would rather be in intense pain that what I was suffering from last night.

    Anybody here that has taken anxiety medication for any reason, I would like to ask you a few questions.

    This stuff is used for everything from treating bi-polar to simply calming the MRI patient. It must be pretty generic and is not necessarily used to just treat depression.

  102. Rutherford, you don’t make arguments. You just say shit.

    You think self-loathing is enlightenment without any frame from reference.

    A gem.

    Yeeee haaaaa. 😆

  103. “Muffy keeps citing 2012 stats.”

    Yeah. The 2016 stats won’t be out for a while.

    The cooks link was from 2015 and the brookings link was from 2016, with links 2016 reports and 2016 related papers in the articles. But you’d need to read to know that. You get a participation trophy.

    What are you citing? Opinion and Comedy Central. Shut up.

  104. Estonian and Latvian leaders had a public argument with Paul Krugman when he and other liberals tried to pressure Republicans to spend us out of the doldrums.

    Latvia so suffered during the recession that I believe a tenth of their population moved away. Like Estonia, they embarked on an austerity program because over borrowing and spending was anathema to them.

    Their economies improved faster than ours and some of our more socialist allies.

    I posted a video of the Estonian folk band, Trad Attack which a writer at Huffington praised. So, we can borrow many things from other countries. Most Estonians and Latvians would probably vote Republican if they lived in the United States.

  105. Hey Rutherford? I have a personal medical question. This mask you wear for your COPD? Does it give you anxiety? I mean anxiety that makes you so anxious and irrational, you want to burn the house down with you in it?

    That was my wife’s problem Tex. When she first started using a CPAP, she had claustrophobic panic attacks. A change in the type of mask fixed the problem and she was able to avoid anti-anxiety drugs.

    As for me, my ventilator attaches directly to my trach tube at night. I stopped using a bi-pap 10 years ago when I first got trached.

    On a side note, I toyed with getting some anti-anxiety drugs a few years ago when I was a nervous wreck way too much of the time. My doc and I decided against it.

  106. I hope you feel better, Tex. I have never had such medication. When I had an MRI scan for my back ten years ago, I was so relaxed I nearly fell asleep during the exam.

  107. You think self-loathing is enlightenment without any frame from reference.

    And from what you write, you epitomize the arrogant American.

    Muffy I take your “shut up” and raise you a “fuck you”. I read most of your Cook report and I skimmed the other one. And my guess is still a damn good one. No Obama, fewer blacks at the polls. Are you suggesting Obama has had some permanent effect on black civic duty? If so, where were they in 2010 and 2014?

    Stop denying the obvious. Oh and did I forget to say “fuck you”?

  108. “fighting with my v-tach that has literally kicked my fight or flight response into turned on 24 hours a day the last week”

    God.. I had this once. Hell on Earth.

  109. The first part of that comment was directed at Tigre, not Muffy. And by the way, counselor, the phrase is “frame of reference”. I forgot you model yourself on Cousin Vinnie.

    P.S. Damn, still need to see that flick in its entirety.

  110. “You think self-loathing is enlightenment without any frame from reference.” -Tigre

    “And by the way, counselor, the phrase is “frame of reference”.” -Rutherford

    Gem.

  111. I now give myself shots of the Rheumatoid Arthrists medicine, Humira. It has been awesome. My psoriasis is gone in only 4 weeks.

    4 or 5 years ago I got a weird red spot on my head. 4 weeks ago I was 25% covered with open lesions and scabs. Weird thing, is you really couldn’t tell much when I was wearing clothes outside of my elbows. It’s like the psoriasis played by rules. Shit was getting into my joints though. And fucking with my head.

  112. Which if the economic policies that cited should we import from Estonia, dumbass?

    For the second time … I never said a goddam thing about economic policies. I said they make it easy to pay taxes. I think it’s the method proposed by Ted Cruz which we’ll never adopt because we learn NOTHING from foreign countries.

  113. I swear. You are a fucking retard.

    Tell us all about the simplified tax code you embrace here.

    Tell us about the virtues of Estonia’s internet voting. I posted an article arguing that it should be dismantled because of the potential for massive fraud. Is the article wrong or do you not know anything at all about it?

    Jesus.

  114. Shit the Humira commercials are scary as hell. Rabbit, you get any bad side effects?

    James the way I look at it, if I weren’t aging, my condition would be stable but the older I get the more my body says “no mas”. As of now my breathing sucks and I have tachycardia due to MVP. Tex will understand that one.

  115. “I think it’s the method proposed by Ted Cruz which we’ll never adopt because we learn NOTHING from foreign countries.”

    Huh? More like we learn nothing from Cruz. Or are you referring to Cruz as Canadian?

    Xenophobia is the reason America won’t go to a flat tax, guys. Rutherford says so. He saw it on the Daily Show.

    If there is one thing I associate the with scary foriegn world….. It’s the exotic flat tax.

    Stupid America… Never adopts things from the rest of the world. I got to go pick my wife up from yoga and buy some taco bell for the kids. Later.

  116. Hey … follow. I didn’t contest the voting thing. The Estonian PM bragged about it and I took his word for it.

    You know how Ted wants us to pay taxes on a post card? I believe that’s the way Estonians do it.

  117. “You know how Ted wants us to pay taxes on a post card?”

    Yeah but he is a secret Estonia-phile and America hates him for it.

  118. “I didn’t contest the voting thing.”

    No. You cited it as an example of something we should adopt but won’t because we’re arrogant Americans. Yee haaaa.

    Which of the other Estonian policies should we adopt. We don’t want to be arrogant Americans now.

    Follow.

  119. Well Tigre look at if this way. Computer voting couldn’t be any worse than the current method which is rife with voter fraud, needing lots of voter ID laws. 🙄

  120. “Computer voting couldn’t be any worse than the current method which is rife with voter fraud, needing lots of voter ID laws.”

    Oh yeah it could. Use some imagination.

  121. “Ahhhh I thought “follow” was a command, not a question. See how important proper punctuation is? 😀😀😀”

    Both futile.

  122. Fuck You is a bit much dont you think? You react like you’re in a dentist chair and they started drilling and forgot to turn on the gas.

    “And my guess is still a damn good one. No Obama, fewer blacks at the polls. Are you suggesting Obama has had some permanent effect on black civic duty? If so, where were they in 2010 and 2014?”

    Whoa. Stop the presses. Blacks will stay home?

    I said if blacks stay home they decide the next president. Hillary needs them. Does that sound like I’m suggesting anything other than that blacks decided the last election and I think they will decide the next one? After that it’s Jorge and his amigos. I backed it up with some pretty good shit and you’re arguing an irrelevant DUH postulation that black turnout will drop.

    If you read the links and the excerpts and your only response is a crack about old data and an irrelevant prediction that doesn’t go against my point anyway then you got nothing to say.

  123. Debase. Debate. What difference at this point does it make?

    I would get bad side effects from that taco bell crap. Did you know they put sand in the meat so it isn’t sticky?

    I practice punctuation. 🙂

  124. “Yeah but he is a secret Estonia-phile and America hates him for it.”

    Holy shit, I described James.

  125. If you read the links and the excerpts and your only response is a crack about old data …

    Nothing to do with old. Data from “black man on ticket” year, that’s all. Got nothing to do with the age of the data.

    If whites vote overwhelmingly for one candidate, blacks won’t make a difference whether they show up or not. You’re giving them way too much credit. Would the black vote have made a difference in Reagan’s 1984 sweep? No … cos when LOTS of whites favor one person the black vote don’t mean shit.

    Which gets us back to what James and I were saying. Blacks tip the scale in close elections. I’m not convinced November will be close. Very possibly a landslide.

    “Shut up” is VERY dismissive. Brings out the Glenn Close in me.

  126. “Would the black vote have made a difference in Reagan’s 1984 sweep? No … cos when LOTS of whites favor one person the black vote don’t mean shit.”

    Racial demographics. Birth rates. Eligible voters. Hispanics coming of age while whites and blacks are aging and having fewer kids. Blacks and electoral battlegrounds. Disproportionately clustered Hispanics in non-swing states.

    There are a lot more variables than skin color and Obama.

  127. I saw the tac-yoga picture and thought to myself “I’d hit it” (the chick…not the tacos)

    Then I saw the hula-horse and things got un-sexy real quick.

    Rutherford, we already know how it’s going to play out. We’ve known for months.

    The FBI will recommend indictment. The DoJ will balk. The Democrats won’t care either way. And Hillary will be the next president.

    Bragging about the high road is what losers do to justify their loss. But as I’ve said all along, Bernie doesn’t really care about winning, he just wants to spark the discussion. He’s doing that, so he’ll walk away from this claiming victory.

  128. “There is no way Obama didnt know what Hillary was up to. And he is just guilty as she is. Therein lies the problem.”

    Yeah. I meant she wouldn’t be indicted if to do so meant he became involved. I thought I recalled that the WH claimed not to know nothing bout no server and then the emails came out with him definitely in the loop. And Comey or no Comey they aren’t going to ask him a damn thing about her emails.

    Funny, the only time it seems like she isn’t lying through her teeth is when she says “I’m 100% sure there won’t be an indictment.”

  129. Yes, you described me well, Rabbit, but it is more complicated than that. We are helping care for our grand daughter and have not unpacked for almost three years.

    We usually spend only three days a week at home and sometimes less. As you know, our grand daughter is microencephlic and doctors had predicted she would be two or three years developmentally delayed. They don’t understand why she is doing so well, and they still don’t know what to do about her skull’s failure to fuse. We also have to be careful with her. Our grand daughter’s joints have a tendency to dislocate.

    Her parents interact with her more than she did, but even now, when they play with her, they often direct most of their attention to communicating with electronic devices.

    My wife and I have poured everything we have into her and have done so from the beginning. We talk to her when they don’t.

    Our son in law said sometimes before we return on Monday, our grand daughter says she wants a morning nap because her sleeping will make the time pass faster until we arrive.

    Our daughter put her in dance class last September, and the last one was over a week ago. Her parents decided she didn’t need more classes, but she told me being away from the classes made her sad. I told our daughter and she asked her daughter who told her the same thing. She will probably be with another dance class when they become available.

    The other grand parents live five hours away, but they are able to come more often. The grand mother told me “she is amazing. She doesn’t just talk in sentences, she talks in interlocking paragraphs.” Our grad daughter also makes connections, and she enjoys watching feature movies like Frozen which our daughter shows her.

    The other grand parents think we have sacrificed too much, in effect giving up our lives for our grand daughter and her parents. Our daughter said if not for us, one of them would have had to quit work to stay home with their daughter.

    I am not bragging. Anyone would have done what we did. But for someone associated with so much heartache, grief and fear, it feels good to watch her turn out so well.

    This was supposed to be our travel time with our last gasp of health and vitality. But we are tied down and will be for some time.

    I found another way to travel. I pick a country and learn all I can about it, including taking virtual tours through the country side, watching their television shows, meeting people on line, listening to their music, and reading their version of the news.

    I showed her the Estonian video by Trad Attack, and she said “Oma come look. They are dancing.” She watches video dance moves and tries to copy them.

    I don’t give a damn what anyone thinks of me. All I care is that our grand daughter is thriving to a degree no one expected.

  130. This Latvian video unwittingly describes Obama’s view of himself as an international leader v. reality.

    Our grand daughter had two seizures at around 18 months. We feared it was the beginning of the end but so far so good.

  131. “But for someone associated with so much heartache, grief and fear, it feels good to watch her turn out so well.”

    I feel the same way and I’m just an internet stranger.

  132. Nah Tigre, not SSRI’s but benzodiazepines that enhance the effects of GABA. I always think of SSRI’s being slower, longer use.

    This worked in about 20 minutes and I don’t think is intended to be used any length of time – just until this congestion clears. I’ve only taken one but I was surprised at its effectiveness.

    Now I’m back to only wanting to kick Leftists in the ass instead of sawing their heads off. 😈

  133. I should’ve read your post more carefully. I knew that.

    I was thinking of someone close to me that had extreme OCD and took SSRI to curb the anxiety, which in turn curbed the OCD. It was a fucking miracle. Virtually no side effects or personality changes.

    What you’re describing sounds like I need a handful most days.

  134. Rutherford, your political ideology seems more to align with where Scott Creighton is right now.

    https://willyloman.wordpress.com/2016/04/08/why-i-support-a-cruz-or-trump-victory-in-november/

    He thinks the Democrats need a wacko republican in the wh to get back to their ideals. To regroup, if you will. Though I am not in agreement with him, he does make a point. Personally, I think we are too far gone to see any political solution. The established party pretty much gives Hillary carte blanche.

  135. I am here as a witness to how natural medicines, clean water, and real foods are what keeps people healthy. It isn’t our ‘health’ system. At all. That is designed entirely to profit from keeping us plugged in with treatment and procedures. I recently made it to 59. This organic machine still performs miracles. I won’t take it for granted though. This culture is abusive and less than healthy spiritually as well as physically. It is important to cleanse oneself of the toxins.

    I intake no pharmaceuticals and consume as little processed food-like ingredients as possible. A chiropractor is the only doctor I’ve seen in two decades. Mrs poolman says if I gave up beer and ice cream I would lose the belly. She’s probably right. 🙂

  136. Thanks, rabbit.

    The Romania hacker has a high school education and lives in a small village which looks like Transylvania.

    He used his limited computer knowledge and creativity to hack into Bloomenthal’s, Powell’s and other computers because they had weak passwords.

    He claims to have saved some of Hillary’s e mails in the clouds.

    Our corrupt justice system will probably let Hillary walk, but the Republicans could make an issue of her ignorance, carelessness and arrogance. Apparently many of our smart elites are too stupid to protect their communications.

  137. The Guccifer extradition sounds menacing for Hillary Felonious Rodham Clinton.

    Either he can support the element of the security violation (ease of hacking and negligence of maintaining the system) or, I wonder, does he have emails that were not produced but should’ve been that he can access to prove the (obvious) obstruction. You know. like with a cloth.

  138. It’s been my experience that conservatives often hope that they’re wrong and conversely libbies hope that they’re right.

  139. I expect the worst Hillary will get is a group reprimand policy change kind of thing. Maybe even a thank you for exposing a problem by triggering a “security review.”

  140. If I gave up beer and ice cream I’d lose my will to live.

    😆 I don’t consume near the amounts I did when I was young, but my brain is still wired to that pleasure reward aspect of both experiences. I’m just pickier now.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    The best thing you can do is invest in your grandchild, James. This next generation is going to need all the advantage we can give them.

    Grandkids are the greatest! I have the two youngest boys visiting right now. The two-and-a-half year old is using his tractor and trucks to ‘help’ mrs poolman in her garden. 😀 The other is playing with his toes on the patio. It’s about 73 and cloudy. Mostly real clouds today. We got rain yesterday and are hopeful for some more.

  141. If any of the unreported leaks are accurate, there will be a lot of pissed off FBI that could create problems. I think Comey will have lost the confidence of his bureau.

    The precedent that I think will be set on this is gawd awful — but dems universally don’t care about precedent. They really don’t. It is something that definitely separates the right form the left.

    (R, spare me your bullshit about corrupt conservatives unless you want to give me some parallel to the Clintons, Lerner, Holder, and others that’s worth a shit. I can’t think of any but if you care to correct me please make meaningful comparisons instead of the “I know you are but what am I” stuff).

    “It’s been my experience that conservatives often hope that they’re wrong and conversely libbies hope that they’re right.”

    In a similar vain, I think conservatives usually anticipate bad/probable outcomes whereas the always the opposite.

  142. “left always the opposite” (i.e. it’ll work this time because [insert whatever stupid shit that supports wishful thinking instead of reality]).

  143. “P.S. Damn, still need to see that flick in its entirety.”

    Just do it before I come punch you in the throat and kick you in the cooter. It’s on teevee right now and my wife is belly laughing as she’s folding laundry and watching. One of those movirs that does’t get stale with multiple veiwings.

  144. In a similar vain, I think conservatives usually anticipate bad/probable outcomes.

    Yeah Nixon, Hastert and Cheney such excellent examples.

    After almost a decade of discussion in this bar, you’d think all of us would concede no party has a monopoly on ethics or any other positive trait.

  145. I wonder, does he have emails that were not produced but should’ve been that he can access to prove the (obvious) obstruction.

    I believe that ship has sailed. Unless I misunderstood, Guccifer found emails between Blumenthal and HRC (on Blumunthal’s account) that Hillary had not turned over. I think that was months ago.

  146. James, although I don’t comment much I take your granddaughter’s situation (and her progress) very personally. I was lucky in that the doctors told my parents from the get-go I’d be a productive citizen despite multiple congenital problems. The encouragement helped but I had tough parents who would have persisted anyway just as you and your daughter have.

  147. “Yeah Nixon, Hastert and Cheney such excellent examples.”

    Now, I asked you to explain, and you can’t, can you?

    Nixon resigned.

    Go on Rutherford. MAke the comparisons for fuck’s sake. Stop just saying shit and make an argument.

  148. And I’m talking about what will e tolerated and defended by their supporters. The Clintons are know perjurers, crooks, corrupt, predatory fucks. Hillary is your presumptive nominee. What’s the parallel?

  149. “I believe that ship has sailed. Unless I misunderstood, Guccifer found emails between Blumenthal and HRC (on Blumenthal’s account) that Hillary had not turned over. I think that was months ago.”

    Guccifer is the one that exposed the emails through Blumenthal. He said he didn’t produce all of them and saved some “on the cloud.” SO, if Hillary says she turned over everything then Guccifer produces mire that were not released there’s another problem.

    Follow, you smug fuck.

  150. Hey Rutherford, I’m offering my service, pro boner. I’m thinking I can be your proxy to help you make more sense.

    You see, you could email me before you post. That way I could advise you on things and help you.

    I would do things like tell you not to use Nixon for example. Nixon proves Tigre right. He is the perfect example of the GOP having standards as they casted him onto a dung heap.

    I changed my mind, you owe me ten bucks.

  151. Why is it that folks read my answer but ignore the comment I’m answering?

    I don’t give a flying squirrel if Nixon was condemned by fellow gop’ers. Tigre made the claim that conservatives are better at predicting the consequences of their behavior.

    Nixon: chose cover up over clean up.
    Hastert touched children in his care. Lots of forethought there.
    Cheney ignored his own friggin advice from the Bush 41 admin and got us in a quagmire for which we are still paying today.

    I’m addressing Tigre’s claim of foreknowledge of consequences. He throws in a red herring about party accountability and Rabbit jumps on top of it.

    Rabbit, Tigre owes you the ten bucks for jumping on top of the grenade he threw.

  152. Guccifer is the one that exposed the emails through Blumenthal. He said he didn’t produce all of them and saved some “on the cloud.”

    Oh relax. I wasn’t being smug. I didn’t get your point. I get you now and I agree. Stuff in the cloud, if it’s real, could bite her in the ass.

  153. Thanks Poolman and Rutherford. When our grand daughter was born, she looked like the old Barnam and Baily picture of Pin Head a circus employee. Now, her head looks nearly normal. We think the failure of her skull to fuse may be a good thing.

    It is windy and sunny after a low of 18. We could use a little rain.

    I like the video Muffy posted.

  154. I don’t think there is much difference between conservatives and liberals, though more liberals seem to have a cordial relationship with Satan. (clears throat)

    Standards are the difference. The biased news and entertainment medias judge conservatives more harshly than liberals. Both groups know this and are conditioned to behave accordingly.

  155. “Tigre made the claim that conservatives are better at predicting the consequences of their behavior.”

    No, dumbfuck. Here’s what I said:

    “The precedent that I think will be set on this is gawd awful — but dems universally don’t care about precedent. They really don’t. It is something that definitely separates the right form the left.

    (R, spare me your bullshit about corrupt conservatives unless you want to give me some parallel to the Clintons, Lerner, Holder, and others that’s worth a shit. I can’t think of any but if you care to correct me please make meaningful comparisons instead of the “I know you are but what am I” stuff).”

    DR, still no answer from Clarence Darrow. So he’s doing EXACTLY (all caps there) what I said don’t bother doing in response. EXACTLY.

    SInce the guy doesn’t know how to read or comprehend, I’ll pay his fees if you can give a cogent response for him to any questions posed to the guy. “I know you are but what am I” doesn’t work for anyone over the age of 10. In fact, the retard probably needs a guardian ad litem since he clearly lacks the capacity to meaningfully participate.

    Let’s make this plain: If Hillary is allowed to skate, a “gawd awful” dangerous precedent will be set with regard to national security, accountability, and the rule of law. LIberals. Don’t. Care. They never do. Just like the precedent they wish to run away from when it comes to the SCOTUS appointment process. starting with Bork. The IRS abuses. The insertion of federal law enforcement in Obama’s effort to stoke racial animus etc., etc., etc.

    I will stipulate that Rutherford “cares.” We all get it. He really, really cares. We all care, that he cares. And it’s all about his selflessness. He cares so much he it matters not how many people get hurt so long as he knows that everyone knows. . . he cares.

    How do you respond counselor? 🙄

  156. “The biased news and entertainment medias judge conservatives more harshly than liberals. Both groups know this and are conditioned to behave accordingly.”

    There’s a lot of truth to this.

    But there’s deeper problems. Look at Obama’s misuse of executive orders. The backing away years after the fact from what constitute privileged materials in the fast and furious scandal. Planned Parenthood. . . It goes on and on and on.

  157. So for a sec I thought my bad. Maybe I didn’t include the Tigre quote I was responding to.

    BUT I DID!!!! Here it is again.

    In a similar vain, I think conservatives usually anticipate bad/probable outcomes.

    I wasn’t addressing the rest of your looooong speech. I was addressing one simple sentence which sooooo missed the mark.

    So why do you regurgitate the whole damn speech? It gave your dumbass comment context?

  158. Sure thing dumbfuck. You responded to that by citing Nixon, Hastert and Cheney? Makes perfect sense. 🙄

    Duh.

    Give it a rest Simple Jack. Let your lawyer do the talking. You’re incapable of meaningful dialogue.

  159. “How do you respond counselor?”

    My client concedes that a lack of an indictment will be another instance of rule of law being trampled on by the powerful.

    However, he doesn’t deem it to be as partisan as you do.

    For example, he cites the adhoc implementation of TARP, which had GOP support, as a perfect example. Congress passed the Congress as H.R. 1424, enacting the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 allowing the Treasury to buy toxic assets from banks and then sell them at auction. This was going to be time consuming and convoluted, so Bush just changed the game. He bestowed Paulson the power to simply infuse billions of dollars into banks. Bush… The King maker of Paulson.

    Of course, this probably ended up saving Tigre’s portfolio. Thus, Tigre was as mum over this as he was the Scooter Libby pardon.

    This abandonment of rule of law by Bush left the precedent that allowed Obama to bail put GM. This was also outside rule of law, but this time Tigre was inflamed over it.

    My client deems Tigre as the one who is in a partisan fog. My client agrees the lack of rule of law is a concern but doesnt feel its soley the Democratic Party at fault.

  160. Well played, DR. At last.

    I wish I wasn’t screaming about it at the time. But there again, there were many conservatives that didn’t. Hard to say it was “ignored” but bad precedent nonetheless.

    Now, were the libbies screaming about it?

  161. “Thus, Tigre was as mum over this as he was the Scooter Libby pardon.”

    It was clemency not pardon and, perhaps you are unaware of hearings on “The Use and Misuse of Presidential Clemency Power for Executive Branch Officials”, held July 11, 2007 by the full Committee on the Judiciary of the U.S. House of Representatives. The hearing was intended to “explore the grave questions that arise when the Presidential clemency power is used to erase criminal penalties for high-ranking executive branch employees whose offenses relate to their work for the President”,[2] as well as to assess the consequences of the perjury and obstruction of justice of which vice-presidential Chief of Staff Lewis Libby was convicted March 6, 2007.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Libby_clemency_controversy

    So, not exactly what I was talking about, now was it?

  162. Counselor, please instruct your client to remain silent. He’s losing his own case. You have a fool for a client.

  163. Former reporter for the New York Times claims in her book “the Story A Reporter’s Journey, Judith Miller claimed that she was manipulated into providing false testimony by Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald. She had spent 85 days in jail for refusing to cooperate.

    She said that she later reviewed her notes and they showed that she did not ask Libby about whether Plame worked for the CIA, but had asked if she worked for the State Department.

    Fitzgerald knew Mr. Armitage was the leaker but he refused to prosecute him. Disclosure of Valery Plame’s identity was not a crime and did not compromise national security

    Plame thinks Libby took the fall for Cheney.

    Peter Berkowitz, senior fellow at Stanford University’s Hoover Institution wrote that Libby did not leak Plame’s identity in retaliation for her husband’s opposing administration claims about Hussein’s attempt to buy uranium from Africans.

    I thought at the time it was a set up.

    As Rutherford or someone wrote “That ship has sailed.” its a pity the ship wasn’t sailing in the water where Ted Kennedy’s car rested.

  164. More states must pass similar resolutions to save themselves from the abuse of Springsteen’s music.

    He may have been Better than Ezra at one time, but Eivor of the Faroe Islands is better than Bruce.

    I was attending a wedding anniversary party last afternoon and evening. Such parties are almost as good as funerals at bringing friends and relatives together. .

  165. Bruce Springsteen and Jon Bon Jovi bought land as a tax refuge and claimed exemptions because they were farmers. In 1964, New Jersey granted up to a 98% tax exemption to those working agricultural land. The rock stars rent the land to others for ag pursuits but they are disobeying the spirit of the law.

    Bruce paid $138,000 in property taxes for his house and $4,600 for the 200 acres around his house. Springsteen and Bon Jovi are doing what the Fins who register cars in Estonia are doing.

    Last Year, New Jersey proposed changes to force fake farmers to pay higher property taxes.

    “This sounds a little like the great humanitarians U2 who attracted protests because they put their money into tax shelters while supporting Ireland’s higher taxes.

    Typical liberal Democrats.

  166. Inthink minorities actually have a lot potential for effecting elections. It requires some work but economic and demographics are afoot that will alter suburbs and exurbs. Given these shifts its easy to see how local level efforts can work wonders in changing past results.

  167. Of course you’re lost Alfie. Tigre is making some absurd claim of GOP superiority and again I go back to the beginning of the discussion. After 9 years of debates on this forum we should all be willing to admit neither party has a monopoly on foresight of consequences.

    Now of course you open another Pandora’s box when you mention motives. It has always been my assertion that we get into a quagmire when we assign motive to action. It’s a leap usually fueled by personal bias. In other words, conservatives vote as they do cos they don’t like black people. Or libs vote the way they do because they envy rich people. It’s in the assignment of motive that we leave the realm of debating the facts.

    And yes, before I hear from Center Square, I’ve been one of the most guilty of assigning motive over the years. It’s a seductive trap and I’m a mere mortal.

  168. Hey Tigre here’s another doozie from that forseer of consequences Richard Nixon.

    I watched a great and quite fair biography of George Wallace yesterday. Nixon actually hatched a scheme to indirectly implicate George McGovern in Wallace’s shooting. The only thing that stopped them was the police had already secured Arthur Bremmer’s apartment before false stuff could be planted.

  169. Rutherford, again, you are incapable of meaningful discussion. Since you can’t follow the point, let DR represent you. You haven’t disproved what I said yet.

    DR, better get a big retainer. Your client STILL doesn’t understand what was asked.

  170. The dems embrace and, like you, defend illegal conduct to win elections., a/k/a nothingburger. I invited you to prove me wrong because I could be. You’re arguing something else. Enjoy.

  171. So do you say Nixon is an outlier in terms of GOP foresight of consequences? Is he the exception that proves your rule?

    I took issue with a very specific comment you made. In fact, had you left out that comment, you’d have an assertion harder for me to dispute. But as usual, you went too far.

  172. Another one of those democrats turned republicans. It’s like baseball.

    “Rick Perry wasn’t just raised a Democrat; he was elected as one. Perry was a Democratic member of the Texas House of Representatives in 1984 and served for three terms. He also worked as a state campaign organizer for Al Gore’s presidential campaign in 1988.”

  173. (R, spare me your bullshit about corrupt conservatives unless you want to give me some parallel to the Clintons, Lerner, Holder, and others that’s worth a shit. I can’t think of any but if you care to correct me please make meaningful comparisons instead of the “I know you are but what am I” stuff).

    Look at the clever setup here. Show examples of Republicans setting bad precedent but if you do, it falls in the category of “I know you are but what am I?”

    I take back every insult I’ve ever made about your lawyering skills. You’re a killer.

  174. Nixon was queer as a three dollar bill. He also said it isn’t illegal when the president does it, thinking himself above the law. Not really unusual. Watergate is what comes to mind, but more damning was he took us off Bretton Woods rendering our dollar fiat.

  175. So Poolman I ask you: is Bernie’s lack of association with big money a sign of integrity or a sign that he never had sufficient influence to be courted by Wall Street in the first place?

  176. “Obama: I ‘guarantee’ Justice Dept. won’t protect Hillary.”

    He emphatically stated that is the case with every investigation by his DOJ and the FBI.

    Which is bullshit.

  177. Money may not be his motive, Rutherford. But he knows how things work in dc. He hasn’t really been a threat to the corrupt system he’s been serving. He isn’t in the cards to be president, imo. Bernie is an independent borrowing the democratic platform. As a presidential candidate he is beneficial in that he did much to incite/excite the next generation of democrats and has kept much heat off Hillary and on Donald. He makes the political system appear more legitimate. He would really need to challenge the DNC and Hillary to seem presidential, not just whip out his oscar the grouch impression.

  178. “I do not talk to the Attorney General about pending investigations. I do not talk to FBI directors about pending investigations,” Obama said. “I guarantee that there is no political influence in any investigation conducted by the Justice Department, or the FBI, not just in this case, but in any case.” -Obama

    (Just as an aside, HAHAHAHAHAHA)

    Obama also said that Clinton’s personal email use “has not jeopardized America’s national security,” even though they contained classified information. “Now, what I’ve also said is that — and she has acknowledged — that there’s a carelessness, in terms of managing e-mails, that she has owned, and she recognizes,” Obama said.

    If he doesn’t talk to the DOJ & the FBI about pending investigations how does he know that Clinton “has not jeopardized national security?”

  179. R, you’re the only one not following the point. You apparently didn’t even follow DR’s point despite offering to pay his modest fee.

    Nixon makes my point, not yours for fuck’s sake.

    Now, I asked about Rick Perry . See if you can figure out why.

  180. If he doesn’t talk to the DOJ & the FBI about pending investigations how does he know that Clinton “has not jeopardized national security?”

    All he has to do is read lib media to draw this conclusion. There are enough counter arguments to this in the moderate and conservative media to make this claim ridiculous.

    Whomever said this mail server thing rebounds on Obama has a good point. This is why he’ll defend Hillary in public until the FBI makes its final case.

    It’s not the first time Obama has spoken injudiciously.

    But behind the scenes I’m not convinced about how supportive Obama is. Remember it was the WH that first contradicted Clinton’s claim that her email practices were authorized.

  181. You’re absolutely right Tigre. I haven’t the foggiest idea why you brought up Perry’s dismissed indictment. In fact I googled wondering if there was some new indictment you were talking about.

  182. “Nixon makes my point, not yours for fuck’s sake.”

    I tried. After many years of coming here, I think he might be below average intelligence.

  183. I’m surprised you didn’t go for the Iran-Contra scandal, DR.

    But as we know, Hastert proves something or another about. . . what were we talking about again? 😆

  184. “Could it be the DOJ thought 3 “scary black guys” wasn’t worth the trouble? The NBPP was as menacing as NKOTB.”

    Yep. It doesn’t matter. 🙄

  185. Rewind 10 years and I knew the names of many of the guys on the PGA tour and some of the guys on the senior tour.

    Now I’ve totally lost track. The only name I recognized among the top 3 Masters competitors today was Lee Westwood. I know this Jordan Spieth is supposed to be a big deal. Never heard of the winner Danny Willet.

    I used to watch golf every weekend. Displaced by politics. Looking at the caliber of the candidates, I should go back to golf.

  186. One more time: Tigre if your only point is that Republicans don’t defend their worst players, Nixon does indeed help your argument. But that wasn’t your entire argument. You made one specific claim that was preposterous and Nixon helps MY argument on that score.

  187. “It’s been my experience that conservatives often hope that they’re wrong and conversely libbies hope that they’re right.” -Muffy

    “In a similar vain, I think conservatives usually anticipate bad/probable outcomes whereas the always the opposite.” -Tigre

    Different subject, addressing a different comment, from a different patron, dummy. Reading. Is. Fundamental.

    Oh, but Nixon, Hastert and Cheney. 😆

  188. I am also not convinced of Obama’s support for Hillary behind the curtain.

    There is bad blood between the Clintons and Obamas but sending Hillary to the wolves would probably be risky for the president.

    We don’t know what the two have on each other. The election could be tossed into chaos as well.

    Those three threatening black men illustrated the racism of the Holder Justice Department. Blacks are a protected people deserving special consideration. They were worth the trouble of doing nothing.

    Why don’t you consider auto racing, Rutherford? My father and I watched each Indianapolis 500 race whenever we were together, and I still watch the races.

  189. “I’m surprised you didn’t go for the Iran-Contra scandal, DR.”

    Yeah… I thought about that. But then realized I’d have to go to Wikipedia to brush up. Scooter required the same…. But I still couldn’t help blindly tossing it out there because I am an internet troll.

    I’m guessing troll tendencies don’t fare well in law.

    Speaking of which… Tigre… You still watching Saul? Man do I love that show… I’m all caught up.

    It moves slow as hell… And I like it that way for some reason.

  190. Different subject, addressing a different comment, from a different patron, dummy. Reading. Is. Fundamental.

    LOL HOLY CRAP! You don’t get to choose which part of your argument I can take issue with. “Different subject, addressing a different comment, from a different patron” means you didn’t say what you said?

    Your mind is a fascinating labyrinth.

  191. Saul is fantastic and I wish Tigre would sample “The Grinder”. Lacks Saul’s great story telling but very funny just the same.

    I’m not caught up on Saul. Still near the beginning of season 2.

  192. Rutherford, I am convinced you’re retarded. Just stop.

    Take my the statement responding to muffy’s comment “in a similar vain” and tell me what Nixon, Hastert and Cheney have to do with it.

    Actually, don’t. It’s too painful.

    Again. everyone here follows but you. Keep shouting though. It’s really helping your case. 😆

  193. DR, I am totally hooked on Saul. So much of the boutique firm politics and dynamics are very well done too. I can;t stand how short the season is though. I think there’s only two episodes left.

  194. BTW DR, I don’t think you could pass a bar exam without the legal knowledge but I have little doubt you could make a really good lawyer if you went the distance. You can spot and call out the b.s. with the best of them, including your own (credibility).

  195. If I chose to give Rutherford (and Obama) the benefit of the doubt, I’d say Barry might wait until he sees who is going to end up on the GOP ticket before deciding whether or not to toss Hillary to the wolves.

    But there is no way in hell he is going to willingly add a Trump presidency to his legacy.

    “Could it be the DOJ thought 3 “scary black guys” wasn’t worth the trouble? The NBPP was as menacing as NKOTB.”

    Yeah, black men armed with clubs standing outside a polling place with the 1st black presidential candidate on the ballot isn’t menacing at all.

    Last week a priest in a white robe carrying rosaries was mistaken by college students for a hooded KKK member with a whip. Idiots took to Twitter to warn everyone not to go outside. A couple years earlier students thought a woman walking covered with a blanket was a KKK member. Students are intimidated by fucking CHALK.

    Can you imagine the size of the safe space required if we started seeing the actual KKK used as polling place security with Trump on the ballot? Do you think the DOJ would find that worth the trouble?

    I do. As they should.

    Rutherford, the idea of having security in the first place is to intimidate people. The idea of security showing their arms, of any kind, is to intimidate people. Just like you claim ET doesn’t get to decide which part of an argument you take issue with, you, or the DOJ, doesn’t get to decide how–or if–someone feels threatened by armed men without badges or traditional security uniforms.

    I would be saying this same thing if we were talking about white men. The only difference is…you’d be saying it, too. And so would Holder and Obama.

  196. Frank Abignale did! (passed the LA bar on his third try) 🙂

    I agree DR would make a very good lawyer. You picked the right profession yourself Tigre. Yes sirree.

  197. Actually, don’t. It’s too painful.

    Too painful indeed. If I had a buck for every time I’ve repeated the obvious to you I’d be a millionaire. But the day you defended Carly Fiorina for her misrepresentation and defended it virtually to the death, I should have sworn off further arguments with you. You’re one of the few I know who can doggedly stick to “the sun rises in the west”. I swear you just love to argue.

  198. I thought Obama proved a certain point today with his remarks on the Clinton investigation.

    Yup. Thick as thieves. Thick. As. Thieves.

  199. Just like you claim ET doesn’t get to decide which part of an argument you take issue with, you, or the DOJ, doesn’t get to decide how–or if–someone feels threatened by armed men without badges or traditional security uniforms.

    On that, I take your point.

  200. ET took the name of Estonia in vain again, as well he should have. It support’s Rutherford’s writing that we can learn from other countries in a way he didn’t intend.

    The cost of living in Tallin is 47% of New York City’s. Estonia is economically more free than the US. The majority of Estonians are satisfied with or happy with the cost and quality of their medical system.

    Had Obama followed Estonia’s lead instead of spending billions on shovel ready jobs and green projects and lying about keeping our own doctors, we would be in a better position than we are.

    Trivia is that Estonians were also Vikings.

  201. One more thing about the three black men is that they weren’t standing around quietly. They were making comments to the white voters.

    Holder’s Justice Department was racist, as shown by their inattention to the thee men. Some DOJ lawyers were angry over the unwillingness to press charges. It is just one proof that Eric Holder is a racist.

  202. Let me help with a reminder of what you claim:

    “It’s been my experience that conservatives often hope that they’re wrong and conversely libbies hope that they’re right.” -Muffy

    “In a similar vain, I think conservatives usually anticipate bad/probable outcomes whereas the always the opposite.” -Tigre

  203. “I guarantee it. I guarantee that there is no political influence in any investigation conducted by the Justice Department or the FBI, not just in this case but in any case. Period,” Obama made clear.

    Says the President 10 seconds after he politically influences the investigation by telling everybody what Hillary didn’t do.

    FBI… Your investigation is small potatoes. Obama said so.

    Which, by the way, means the exact opposite. I now would bet big money Hillary got men killed because of her email now that the biggest liar in American history says otherwise.

    Always a lie.

    There is no way in hell there will be an indictment. But we will later find out people died because of that server. Mark my words.

  204. Come on now. You sure burned me with Fiorina. Obviously she was run out of town with those uncrossed Ts and undotted Is.

  205. “There is no way in hell there will be an indictment. But we will later find out people died because of that server. Mark my words.”

    And dems still won’t care.

  206. Rutherford, so, again, what do Cheney, Nixon an Hastert have to do with the point you claim you were arguing?

    Again, I think your desire to complicate an argument makes you miss the obvious. I see why you call me retarded. I’m making an obvious point.

    If Republicans were better at predicting bad outcomes then Nixon on any number of occasions would have chosen a different path. Hastert would have seen the likely folly in his child groping (if not on moral grounds, at least on predicting possible consequences). And Cheney, who in the early 90’s knew the folly of invading Iraq would have thought better of it in the early oughts.

    It’s a very simple argument. I’m not arguing about whether conservatives defend their own. I’m not even arguing with Muffy’s statement upon which you elaborated.

  207. And, James gets it.

    Rutherford still doesn’t.

    LOL Now you’re back on Estonia. I bought into the PM’s propaganda without doing my own research. Intellectually lazy. You’ve got me again. Happy?

  208. “I thought Obama proved a certain point today with his remarks on the Clinton investigation.”

    Too bad he can’t conduct himself as Bush did with the Libby investigation.

  209. Add me to the no indictment rolls. I don’t see it happening. This is all window dressing and legacy pimping. Perhaps on a not unrelated note Obama has chalked up the post Libya stuff as his worst mistake in a CNN interview. Be interesting to see if in the inevitable reflection tour if he’ll remain consistent. That he still believes going in was right but that the “day after” planning was flawed is kind of mind boggling and eerily reminiscent.

  210. Good to see the leftist script has been so successfully distributed. The folks “boycotting” North Carolina and now Mississippi are intolerant,closed minded shrews.

  211. Obama used two words about Clinton he shouldn’t have used on Fox News Sunday “intentional” and “careless.” He should have known better.

    I agree with Alfie.

  212. Let them boycott. I don’t need a bunch of perverted believing men should be using the women’s restroom in Oklahoma and Texas – I don’t really give a damn what some twisted psychotic believes he might be. If he as a ‘Y’ chromosome, he’s a man. Period. Call it what it is – a mental illness.

    Hard to believe its’s come to this. The people that find that deviant behavior and mental illness are now called bigots. If America isn’t upside down anymore in thinking, I don’t know what it is.

  213. Tex, you’re right and you’re wrong.

    I’m in the minority in my family in believing that gender disassociation is indeed a form of mental illness. I think there are cases where folks born with ambiguous genitalia are assigned the wrong gender by doctors but I think that’s the minority of cases. Most often I believe it’s mental, not biological.

    That said, isn’t it possible that the appropriate treatment for this mental illness is indeed gender reassignment? Serious question with no snark intended: in med school did you go through a psych rotation and did this subject get covered?

    Second, more than a handful of transgender folks look merely different from tranvestites. In other words, quite often, Jane who is really John looks like a Jane. So how do we spot these folks and tell them to go to another bathroom? There is no practical solution. It’s like Trump’s Muslim ban. Even if you don’t find it immoral, you can’t enforce it in any practical way.

    Third and least of all – just an observation – if all transgender people were female to male we wouldn’t even be discussing this. This brouhaha is based on the ignorant belief that male to female transsexuals want to be in the ladies room for some kind of sexual perverted thrill. Nonsense.

  214. Third and least of all – just an observation – if all transgender people were female to male we wouldn’t even be discussing this. This brouhaha is based on the ignorant belief that male to female transsexuals want to be in the ladies room for some kind of sexual perverted thrill. Nonsense.

    On what do you base your observation?

  215. I think Tex and Rutherford are both right. We learned in abnormal psychology class that these people, like many others are different from each other.

    Transvestites can be hetrosexual who have no desire to be members of the opposite sex. They just get a thrill from being someone they are not. A few may use the condition to prey on the other gender.

    Then, come various grades of people who feel they are the opposite sex. Some of them do not actually want to change gender. They just want to live as the other sex at times.

    The minority actually believes themselves to be of the other sex and may kill themselves if they fail. This minority is harmless unless they are unscruplous enough to get into a relationship without telling about their pasts. Years may pass before they are found out, if ever.

    Others go through the change and belatedly realize they have made a mistake and pay doctors to reverse the procedures.

    Doctors try to safe guard against such mistakes by requiring people to live exclusively as the other gender for at least a year or two.

    Most of us have an internal voice which tells us what we are. Liberal psychologists had a theory that we are all blank slates. One can use conditioning to change a mind into any form desirable.

    Doctors circumcised twins in Winnipeg and a mistake destroyed a baby’s penis. A psychologist saw this as an ideal chance to test his theories. The damaged boy was converted into a girl.

    For years, the perps described the experiment to be a success. They wrote articles advocating such a change for other unfortunates.

    The girl began to rebel when she became a teenager. Her parents had to force her to take hormones.

    Finally her father confessed what had been done to her. He said she was so angry he was afraid she would kill the family in their sleep. All along, she had felt that she was a boy.

    A couple of years passed before the daughter became a son again. He married a woman and was a step father.

    He was emotionally messed up and killed himself. His twin brother later ended his life because he had trouble adjusting to his sister becoming a brother. The parents divorced.

    I think the current transgender craze will hurt at least some of the children who are declaring themselves transgender before they are old enough to understand themselves.

    If you really want weird and unusual, study intersex people. They have a hard life.

    A transexual was in school with our children. He/she with the aid of hormones became pretty and had a good job. He/she was active in a number of organizations, including a county drama club. He/she was open about the past and was popular though also the source of bemusement.

    However, when her/his grand mother died, he/she hanged her/himself at the age of 21 a couple of days after a funeral. It was hard being trans in a small rural Iowa county.

  216. “On what do you base your observation?”

    Duh. Rutherford speaks for women and transgendered ’cause he’s enlightened. Penis or no penis, we knows who is allowed to think and feel what based on his one-sided notion of fairness. If you don’t agree, you’re ignorant should be forced to accommodate ’cause it’s more important to accommodate transgenders.

    However, I consider it a war on women.

  217. This brouhaha is based on the ignorant belief that male to female transsexuals want to be in the ladies room for some kind of sexual perverted thrill. Nonsense.

    I don’t care if some swinging dick thinks he is a girl and needs to sit on the pot to pee, not thrilled in the least with seeing a naked woman. What I do care about is the girl sitting beside the swinging dick that looks at him as a predatory penis.

    And if that girl happens to be wife, daughter, sister, or mother, my prognosis will be that I will brain him, mental illness or no mental illness.

    Then we won’t need concern ourselves with this stupid discussion.

  218. Sister toldjah gave specific examples of men who posed as women to rape real women often in rest rooms. Incidents are rare, but it doesn’t matter if you are one of the victims.

    Its the same argument pro abortortionists use when they say laws against late term abortions are unnecessary.

    Now, Bryan Adams is canceling a show. I won’t spend a penny on them. I get their music from Youtube or from the radio.

    I also no longer use EBay or Pay Pal.

  219. Get used to androgyny. Angels are asexual.

    There is no male and female differentiation for the next phase of life.

  220. I don’t care about boycotts R and I have no doubt there will be lawsuits. I just firmly support religious freedoms and personal freedoms at the same level and think the platforms should just be honest.

  221. Get used to androgyny. Angels are asexual.

    Perhaps, though it would read an all male club to me. But we’re not angels and mine are going with me. 😉

  222. I see where Donald ‘The Orange” Blowhard is whining because he got out hustled and smarted in CO. The genius businessman didn’t know the rules after 8 months.

    Apparently, the confusion isn’t only skin deep. It’s genetic.

    Two of Donald Trump’s children can’t vote in New York primary because they forgot to register as Republicans. Oops…

    What a facade. LOL

  223. Tex I wish you had given me a serious answer. As it is, your answer seemed contradictory. On the one hand you seemed to acknowledge the possibility of a transgender woman not having any prurient interest in women. Then you did a 180 and suggested you didn’t want the women in your life in a public bathroom with one.

    Arguing the morality of this is a waste of time. The law can’t be enforced unless every woman who enters a public bathroom has to show “her” birth cert to an attendant. It’s downright silly and designed to make some sort of social/religious statement that is futile from an enforcement POV.

    If it makes them feel good to say “our state hates trannies” then more power to them.

  224. “The law can’t be enforced unless every woman who enters a public bathroom has to show “her” birth cert to an attendant.”

    Then there’s no need for the law.

    I think a woman’s sense of privacy and safety is more important than your need to normalize transwhateverism. It’s not a disability, it’s a choice.

    We get it. You “care.” But you only “care” about one class of person at the expense of approximately one-half of the un-transwhateverred population. I love how you embrace then dismiss the concerns of women depending on your non-female (presumably) sensibilites.

  225. Funny thing old chum, I’ve only ever seen men harping about this. I’ve not seen women voicing the concern.

    I’m not trying to normalize anything. I’m being a good conservative asking for less government and fewer new laws. If a trannie or a tranvestite for that matter goes into an opposite gender restroom and gets out of line, (s)he should be arrested. I think current laws cover that.

  226. “Large hands. Larger than Donald’s?”

    I promise, he’ll be very satisfied. VERY satisfied.

    I know R would be creeped out with a trannie rubbing on him in a dimly lit room even though he would have to claim he “shouldn’t.” Whether consciously or subconsciously associating transgender with sexual deviance/mental disorder is deeper than “your ignorant,” particularly from someone that has no better foundation for his opinion than the ones that are uncomfortable with it.

  227. “I’ve not seen women voicing the concern.”

    I would ;t want to cast aspersions on your scientific analysis, but my wife doesn’t want it. I’ll let he know she’s wrong and the only one. Rutherford said so.

    “If a trannie or a tranvestite for that matter goes into an opposite gender restroom and gets out of line, (s)he should be arrested. I think current laws cover that.”

    No way to prove it without a birth certificate, right? What do you care?

  228. “If a trannie or a tranvestite for that matter goes into an opposite gender restroom and gets out of line, (s)he should be arrested. I think current laws cover that.”

    I’m sure your wife then would be okay with no gender specific bathrooms of any kind then. Because it only matters if they “get out of line” — not the privacy, security or apprehension of others? Sure.

  229. Tigre you’re being silly.

    Muffy serious question: what do you do when you encounter a skeevie looking woman in a public restroom? I’m talking any woman you find threatening for any reason. What do you do?

    When I use a public restroom, first I never use the urinal. I always use a stall. Second I make zero eye contact with anyone in there. I also avoid public restrooms as much as possible.

  230. Tex I wish you had given me a serious answer. As it is, your answer seemed contradictory.

    Oh, I forgot. I didn’t type my response in formal leftist psychobabble. Let me make simple for you. I’m not concerned with your twisted, mentally ill LGBT toad’s wishes.

    Only about the women in my life. And they don’t want the mentally ill in their bathroom.

  231. “Funny thing old chum, I’ve only ever seen men harping about this. I’ve not seen women voicing the concern.”

    Any lingering goodwill I still had toward Bruce Springsteen is down the toilet.

    I understand it would be very uncomfortable and even dangerous for a tranny to use the mens room. But this sucks.

  232. “Muffy serious question: what do you do when you encounter a skeevie looking woman in a public restroom? I’m talking any woman you find threatening for any reason. What do you do?”

    Id leave.

  233. .

    It would cost more but maybe a third gender restroom would be safer for everyone.

    I like European bands. They are less likely to pull a Springsteen in the US.

  234. Oh, I forgot. I didn’t type my response in formal leftist psychobabble. Let me make simple for you. I’m not concerned with your twisted, mentally ill LGBT toad’s wishes.

    Was the whole med school thing a scam or a waste of your money? I asked you a serious question about what, if anything you learned in med school about the clinical aspects of transsexualism. It’s clear that whatever you learned had zero influence on your current rhetoric. Or did it? Did they teach you that trannies are psycho?

  235. Leave the bathrooms the way they are and for the future design for 3 where today there are 2. Whoever wants to use a 3rd unisex one can do so. And whoever wants to renovate their private business to add a third bathroom can send Bruce the bill.

  236. I’m waiting for someone to bring up the point that being transgendered is a form of cultural appropriation. There is a form of culture attached to gender.

    White guys can’t have dreads or cook Chinese food but it’s cool for Bruce Jenner to wear a dress?

    Also, 3rd bathrooms won’t work. It will make the trannies feel bad and unaccepted. 3rd bathrooms are for freaks. They want to use the bathrooms they want to use, and nothing else will suffice.

  237. “Im begiining to think theres no such thing as common sense anymore.”

    Muffy, the worst part of that is the word “common”.

    What we think to be “common sense” is now “uncommon sense”. What is actually “common sense” is some messed up stuff. It’s arguments about boys using the girl’s restroom and who you have to bake cakes for.

  238. While that is certainly true, Rutherford…black people would also go batshit crazy.

    There’s no reason for her not to take the black vote for granted. She could have told that joke with blackface and an afro wig and still get 80% of the black vote.

    Biden and Hillary both used southern black accents in front of black crowds and we didn’t hear a peep from the black community about it.

    Maybe black people are too busy getting worked up over serious issues like ads for The Gap to get upset over little things like prospective presidents using racial humor and voice stereotypes.

    This really isn’t about the media’s hypocrisy. What it displays is black hypocrisy.

  239. You’re absolutely right Huck. I said as much to Rabbit earlier in the thread.

    I’ve been watching CNN’s “Race for the White House” an excellent history-lite series. Last night they covered Clinton v Bush. They played Bill and Hill’s adultery interview on 60 Minutes. Hearing her turn on that fake southern accent turned my stomach.

  240. Huck, if third bathrooms don’t work, lets arm women who use the facilities where the type of people is uncertain and may be threatening.

    I was late for a dental appointment yesterday, and I have a regular physical this morning. I have been living on colored time these last two days. I need white time today.

    I didn’t know what to call it until de Blasio and Hillary enlightened us. I could have sworn it was Hispanic time.

  241. Come on now. Hillary is the wife of our first black president. And, she has had a mighty tough life. She was dead broke after the WH, dodged sniper fire in Bosnia, been persecuted by vast right wing, and heard meant things from women claiming Bill is a predator. She don’t feel noways tired. . .

  242. If my daughter felt uncomfortable going into a bathroom with a trannie, I’m not going to cite Rutherford Lawson’s claim that they’re not perverts as a reason why she shouldn’t care.

    Heard a great clip on the morning zoo from the Caitlyn show. They did an orgasm practicing exercise so that trannies could learn how to act more like a woman having an orgasm than a man. I understand the yoga pants made the visual a real delight.

  243. I sat down a peed in the middle of the night a couple nights ago. Was that tired and lazy. I kind of identified with it

    Can’t wait to be able to do that more often in a safe space.

  244. lol. Unless there’s a urinal or the throne nasty like some gas stations, I sit to pee. Less mess especially in the middle of the night and the seat always stays down. I aim to keep the women happy. 🙂

  245. Pools, in anticipation of the razzing you are going to get – I will say also that I am a sitter for the very reasons you cited. Plus, with IBS one often discovers that a trip for mission #1 quickly becomes mission #2.

    Besides, how can I stand, aim and comment on this blog at the same time? 👿

  246. If my daughter felt uncomfortable going into a bathroom with a trannie, I’m not going to cite Rutherford Lawson’s claim that they’re not perverts as a reason why she shouldn’t care.

    If your or my daughter felt uncomfortable I wouldn’t tell them they shouldn’t care. Uncomfortable is uncomfortable. I’d tell my daughter to find another bathroom or wait outside until the Transformer had finished her business. Seems to me a much more cooperative solution than demanding that someone wearing a dress and high heels go into the men’s room because they used to have a penis.

  247. “Pools, in anticipation of the razzing you are going to get blah, blah, blah”

    I figured Pools sat to pee.

    DR? I’ve lost all faith in humanity.

    Hey R, you know how you talk to the guy in the stall next to you?

    Don’t do that.

  248. “Uncomfortable is uncomfortable.”

    Oh, I thought it was ignorance and intolerance. Silly me.

    If a clown stood at a urinal next to me I’d probably call it quits. But we all know, being a clown doesn’t make you a pervert.

    As for your not having seen women voicing the concern, I will chalk that up to you not interacting much with women. Every single female in our office has “voiced concern.” Even the retarded libbies.

    You ready for that massage?

  249. “As for your not having seen women voicing the concern, I will chalk that up to you not interacting much with women. Every single female in our office has “voiced concern.” Even the retarded libbies.”

    Naturally.

    When I read that earlier I just shook my head.

  250. “Used to is the operative word.” Whomever used to have a penis is physically more woman than man.

    Sister toldjah listed several specific examples of such predators.

    “What at this point does it matter?”

  251. Tigre, the silly is strong with you today.

    Wow, you found a perv posing as a tranny. Who da thunk it? So it follows all trannies are really pervs.

    In the next comment I’ll address someone willing to be serious.

  252. Tex, thanks for finally giving me a serious answer to my question. While CNSNews and its founder Brent Bozell are both suspect, Johns Hopkins is highly respected. I’ll google that psychiatrist to see if he’s actually a quack BUT with no clinical training I think he’s 100% right.

    Well, he doesn’t address special cases like incorrectly assigned hermaphrodites. But for those clearly born a boy or girl in every way, I think he’s right.

    Which brings us to our next question: why should people who have already been hurt by politically influenced, misguided medical theory be hurt again by draconian laws?

  253. So I did a quick wiki on Dr. McHugh. No quack. Well respected. Clearly not new-age or particularly liberal. (No wonder CNSNews likes him). Opposes stem cell research if abortion is involved. But at least he favors an alternative.

    Only one thing in his bio bothered me. He does not believe in repressed memories especially where adults suddenly remember sexual abuse from childhood. AND he was on a commission evaluating sexual abuse by priests. That’s a combo that raises flags for me.

  254. “So it follows all trannies are really pervs.”

    I’m sorry. You must have confused something I said with someone else. I, of course, never said that. But we’ve seen your genius throughout this thread.

    Why dont you address what I actually said? I know it’s taxing for you. Reading. Is. Fundamental.

  255. Hey Pools. Rutherford said no trannies are pervs. None. Your safe. Sit and pee in the company of whomever buddy.

  256. The material on this website continues to amaze me. I didn’t need to know that Poolman sat to pee, or that Rutherford did #2 anytime. Can’t we get back to Sarah bashing and Feel the Bern? 🙂

  257. Reblogged this on gloveandbat and commented:

    This Blog was great because it talks about all the flaws Trump has but also all the perks. It shows how some people like him and how others hate him. It is funny though how all the candidates for this election all come with major flaws. Clinton shares secretes. Trump is crazy. Sanders wants to give stuff away. Cruz doesn’t have that successful of a background.

  258. Rutherford, how do address this in your scientifically sound hypothesis?

    Is that what you wanted me to address? Are you aware the “this” was a story about ONE guy? Did I ever say that it never happens that a perv goes into a ladies room dressed like a woman to harass women?

    Should the frequency and likelihood of an event factor into whether or not we legislate about it?

    If you harass someone in a public restroom, you’re committing a crime regardless of your gender.

  259. “Are you aware the “this” was a story about ONE guy? Did I ever say that it never happens that a perv goes into a ladies room dressed like a woman to harass women?”

    No. You didn’t. Did I say ALL trannies are sexually gratified in the ladies room? That’s what you accused me of saying. Your favorite method of debate, and as effective as the 10 year olds that employ it.

    Look, dummy. From an early age, well-raised girls are taught to be fearful of men breaching their personal /intimate space. Since you have a daughter, I pray she was taught the same but given your proclivity to place the perceived sensibilities of other that you don’t understand ahead of common sense, I won’t bank on it. And guess what. The same for young boys too. Yet your smug, self-assured, shallow premise, AS ALWAYS, is based on what you label ignorance and (implied) intolerance (“This brouhaha is based on the ignorant belief that male to female transsexuals want to be in the ladies room for some kind of sexual perverted thrill. Nonsense.”). Spare us the lecture. AS ALWAYS, you’re wrong.

    The brouhaha is a natural reaction to a fucking bizarre-assed need to force accommodations for bizarre-assed people with a selfish bizarre-assed social justice fuckheads perpetually creating new classes of victims out of bizarre-assed people with mental disorders, fetishes, inability to socialize etc. etc. etc. so they can pretend to be champions or virtue all by, get this, . . . labeling and victimizing those that rationally oppose them.

    Men are predators and perpetrate all kinds of dark, fucked up sexual shit in a way nowhere close to that of females. That’s a just a damn fact and rightly acknowledging it doesn’t make someone ignorant. To the contrary, the ignorance lies in your smug, conclusory bullshit.

    There’s nothing wrong with people not wanting someone with a cock and wearing a dress going into women’s bathrooms. And there sure as shit is no shortage of women “voicing concern” outside of your friends on MSNBC and The View or whatever other silly shit you watch all day long. Just cut the shit. Acknowledge an obvious truth, then address it in making your argument for fuck’s sake. I just went through an entire day of your gibberish because you continued to argue a point that was never made but didn’t have enough sense to admit it after looking back.

  260. Well Pools, my youngest daughter will be out there with you in Phoenix for the rest of the week. Did you want to make a date? 🙂

    I’m a little surprised. I looked up her flight and was shocked the time is almost three hours. I never think of Phoenix being that far west.

  261. Tigre focus. You suggested your article about one sicko somehow refuted a premise I never made. I NEVER said pervs don’t go into ladies bathrooms. So your article served no purpose.

    This isn’t difficult. There is no huge contingent of perverts demanding access to women’s public restrooms to harass them. There isn’t even a huge contingent of trannies who just wanna pee and be left the fuck alone.

    This is another case of conservatives proving how righteous they are and demanding laws to showcase their righteousness.

    From what I understand ladies rooms have closed stalls. So long as Caitlyn Jenner goes into the closed stall, does her business and then leaves, why can’t you just leave her the fuck alone?

    You never answered the base question Mr. Conservative. Why are you advocating for MORE laws and more government?

    Ain’t it amazing how conservatives want fewer laws when it comes to things like voting rights but they’re sooooo eager to legislate penises and vaginas?

  262. Rutherford, as a Democrat, you forfeit the right to throw any debate about voting rights into anyone’s face.

  263. I’m also seeing a lot of liberal laws being passed regarding penises and vaginas, so I think you lose on that one, too.

    You should have left things where you had it way back when you essentially stated people want more of the types of laws they like and less of the types they don’t.

    That is, except Libertarians. We just want less laws.

  264. Rutherford you’re missing a major point. With trans it isn’t because they used to have certain parts its that they STILL HAVE CERTAIN PARTS!,
    Restrooms are for what you’re packing not how you feel.

  265. Huck was right. This country has lost not only common sense but all sense. How crazy can it get? Apparently the crazy just gets worse. With all the potty talk about mental illness of LGBT, Tennessee has joined the fray by passing HB 1840.

    “On April 11, the Tennessee legislature passed HB 1840. The bill allows private practice therapists and counselors to reject patients if their “goals, outcomes, or behaviors” would violate the “sincerely held principles” of the provider.”
    (please note the absence of the word “religious”)

    The insane have taken over the insanity.

  266. Gentlemen: your daughters are more likely to be accosted by a homosexual than a transvestite in a bathroom.

    I cannot imagine any other country that spends as much time as America passing laws regarding “body parts”. Many countries provide only one bathroom regardless of gender. Of course we would have to reform the “Federal bathroom laws”

  267. The weather is perfect for visiting Phoenix this week, Tex. Cool enough to open the house at night and warm enough for suntanning during the day. I think we get back up into the 90’s next week. 56 degrees on the patio at 7am. The trees and flowers are in bloom. I don’t have allergies, but know people who do that are not enjoying this time of year as much as us non sufferers are.

  268. “Gentlemen: your daughters are more likely to be accosted by a homosexual than a transvestite in a bathroom.”

    Same with a Turkish bathhouse. So? Lesbians accosting girls ladies rooms more prevalent than males? Got a stat? I’d like to see that. I bet I could locate 4 or 5 stories of transwhatevers accosting violating women in the ladies room.

    And since when are homosexuals and travsvestitism mutully exclusive? I would think they are more often than the same.

  269. Emily, I have seen them in France.

    I think there could also be some risk to transgender people under the new system.They want society to validate them, but to even the most tolerant of us, they will remain curiosities.

    Mat Damon is in Omaha to film some scenes from the movie “Downsizing” We are home this week. Otherwise it would be easy to drive a few blocks to see the filming.

    I have been on a movie set. My life is too short to watch boring and tedious.

    A site claims Mat Damon has a 150 IQ, Shakira’s is 148, and James Woods’ is 184. Ashton Cooper has a 160 IQ. They are bogus, but got my wife upset since she doesn’t like Aston Cooper.

    It was 20 yesterday morning and 40 this morning. We need rain.

  270. The conditions like most overlap. However,

    transexuals, transvestites, intersex and homo sexuals are as different from each other as the Green Bay Packers and the New York Yankees.

  271. Dig to the center of this dispute. It is simply another ploy by progressives to destroy our culture and economy. They permit no deviation from the party line.

  272. James, I think the stats show that the majority of transvestites self-identify as heterosexual but the vast majority also claim to have had homosexual sex. Big shock.

  273. “This isn’t difficult. There is no huge contingent of perverts demanding access to women’s public restrooms to harass them. There isn’t even a huge contingent of trannies who just wanna pee and be left the fuck alone.”

    How long before men start dressing as women to access women’s bathrooms? How long before snapchatting Girls Peeing! becomes more fun than men taking shots of their abs in the mirror? How long can I continue to shower after a workout without concern that there is a dude in here? How long before gyms stop providing showers altogether?

    I want gym owners and everybody that has to provide bathrooms to be able to choose how they want to provide them. This is heading toward unisex bathrooms by law and that’s just the beginning.

    “This is another case of conservatives proving how righteous they are and demanding laws to showcase their righteousness.”

    Wrong. Your gut, your common sense, and your spectacular view of the teevee from your couch are just enough input for making your shallow prejudgments, but not enough for any meaningful “observations.”

    Stop with the phony argument about fewer laws. You just keep jumping from one lame “as an aside” argument to another hoping they will add up to a point. And to another opportunity to say “vagina.” You loonie libbies love to say vagina.

  274. Trannys use the ladies room now. They are privaledged to do so not entitled, and they are left alone. Now leave the people alone who dont want to be involved.

  275. The clusterfuck I witnessed over the last two days with standardized testing has left me in a state of shock and I didn’t think my bar could be lowered in terms of expectations of any kind of government roll out.

  276. I don’t know your source Emily Bronte but I found this from the TN government

    (a) No counselor or therapist providing counseling or therapy services shall be
    required to counsel or serve a client as to goals, outcomes, or behaviors that conflict with a sincerely held religious belief of the counselor or therapist; provided, that the counselor or therapist coordinates a referral of the client to another counselor or therapist who will provide the counseling or therapy.

    emphasis added
    I’d like to put forth some more thoughts on this one. First I think it wholly appropriate to afford religious freedom exemptions for anyone. I easily give that in this case as the law will require the declining therapist/counselor to coordinate a referral to someone more open and therefore more capable of providing a service. I’d imagine this law really only helps a limited number of people and more specifically a group of people that would not be searched out by those having concerns. I also imagine it possible that some day a kid or an adult will whack themselves because they had nobody to talk to and that is a shame.

  277. Not to keep the toilet talk flowing….lol
    I think federal precedent and capitalism have all ready showed what for on the matter. Much like ADA caused the creation of handicap bathrooms which eventually yielded to everyone pissing in a urinal 3″ from the floor and enjoying the deuce on the high boy w/roomy stall action something will eventually flush out here.
    I think either places will need to be allowed to “privatize” their restrooms which will need cutting into the code enforced numbers or much like many academic locations the “X” room will be put into practice.
    I will gladly bring up that I find it hilarious that the Left which welcomes exclusion i.e. preventing western men and women from utilizing a pool during burka-ini hours somehow feel the public restroom is the place for inclusion.

  278. Dig to the center of this dispute. It is simply another ploy by progressives to destroy our culture and economy. They permit no deviation from the party line.
    You cisgender hater you ! lol

  279. Rutherford you cool with Rupaul deshlonging in the stall next to your daughter? Remember you cant ‘t in there to protect her,its against the law! I’m not saying Ru is inclined to do anything your kid,I’m just saying obviously not the best scenario just the same.

    Completely unrelated point but a quick story from my 911 EMS days.

    So my partner and I are in the local Burger King grabbing our lunch break when a little black kid,maybe 5y/o, comes out with kind of a weird look on his face. He comes up to me and says “there a naked man in the bathroom”. Me and my partner investigate and it turns out to be a heroin overdose,as for the “nudity” his pants were down most likely because that’s where the vein of the week was living.
    My real point is,there’s plenty of weird shit goes on in public restrooms and a society (Rutherford buzz word!!!) should maybe want to keep it as normal as it can.

  280. The NC, I presume, is a reaction to the opposite statutes enacted in California and other states. They are being proactive in how they chose to deal with the issue and the Left SJW’s wish to normalize abnormal sexual behavior and identities. I see this as no different than the generally unnecessary religious liberties statutes/bills. All kinds of demands from this miniscule group and the mindless leftist adherents like Rutherford that exploit them that are totally out of proportion to their needs and adverse impact on other similarly entitled to certain freedoms and protections.

    As one of my colleagues said at lunch today, “the love that used to not dare utter it’s name, now will not shut the fuck up.”

    “Stop with the phony argument about fewer laws. You just keep jumping from one lame “as an aside” argument to another hoping they will add up to a point.”

    Amen. Please, somebody, make it stop.

  281. “How long before men start dressing as women to access women’s bathrooms? How long before snapchatting Girls Peeing! becomes more fun than men taking shots of their abs in the mirror? How long can I continue to shower after a workout without concern that there is a dude in here? How long before gyms stop providing showers altogether?”

    You don’t want to Google that unless you want to learn that that ship has departed.

  282. Shit…. Shelterford Lawson practices it like he preaches it.

    He’s ok with letting men in his daughter’s shower room.

    What a principled father.

    Of course… It’s all too abstract for him. All of it. He can’t conceive of the real weirdness that is out there. It’s nothing more then a MSNBC thought experiment.

  283. @ Rutherford regards the DeBlasio/Clinton “colored peoples time” joke.
    The joke was made during the annual Inner Circle show…
    That’s a very telling bit. The Inner Circle where journalists and pols roast each other. I’m confident the gathering is soaked in the realities of the isms of its time since 1922. You’re absolutely right that a republican could never get away with it and you’re right that the left side media setting up excuses should be laughed at for their shallow hypocrisy.
    DeBlasio is a puke,his wife a race traitor scumbag and I don’t really need to go on about Hillary. The black community should just euthanize themselves as their friends are worse than their enemies.

  284. Alfie, apparently HB1840 was amended om April 11 and has not yet been signed into law
    ““Unlike broad “religious freedom” bills recently vetoed in Georgia and passed in Mississippi, Tennessee’s measure is tailored to allow licensed counselors and therapists to broadly discriminate against patients. While the original bill would have allowed counselors to refuse to treat patients based on “sincerely held religious beliefs,” that wording was amended to the broader language of “sincerely held principles.”

    On April 11, the Tennessee legislature passed HB 1840. The bill allows private practice therapists and counselors to reject patients if their “goals, outcomes, or behaviors” would violate the “sincerely held principles” of the provider. The bill now goes to Gov. Bill Haslam (R), who has yet to indicate whether he will sign it into law.”

  285. @EB can’t find any proof of that sorry. Every updated pdf I have found has religious beliefs. A HuffPo snippet speaks to sincerely held but offers no amended text in hard form.

  286. OK E found it. It was the first house amendment and was essentially neutered. It also does not reconcile with the senate version. Additional amendments reinforce religion and prevent refusal to patients under 18 who are being bullied. That one is a good one.

  287. “That’s funny. I didn’t know the average women’s restroom had showers.”

    Uh…. Ever been to highschool? Ever go to the gym? Ever live in a dorm? Military barracks? Water park? Beach changing area?

    So yes…. It’s is very common to use a public shower. Dare I say its an “average” thing to do? I do a couple times a week.

    And you know what? It certainly isn’t the highlight of my day. It’s a little uncomfortable.

    Can’t imagine being a woman in the unisex world we are heading in. And… As others have said… Make no mistake about it… That is where this will lead.

    We had to basically tell these 3 or 4 baby boomer libs at work that we refuse unisex bathrooms a few years ago. Libs get off on unisex bathrooms.

  288. How long before men start dressing as women to access women’s bathrooms? How long before snapchatting Girls Peeing! becomes more fun than men taking shots of their abs in the mirror? How long can I continue to shower after a workout without concern that there is a dude in here? How long before gyms stop providing showers altogether?

    Men already dress as women to improperly gain access to restrooms. It’s rare and it’s already illegal. For the millionth time, it’s against the law to harass people.

    I thought the NC law dealt with public restrooms, not locker rooms and shower facilities. So you’re stretching the case or to put it differently, you’re doing the slippery slope thing.

    You’ve already acknowledged that trannies already use the women’s room minding their own business. So let it be.

  289. Libs get off on unisex bathrooms.

    It’s always libs with you. Another reason you’re an ass. Everything in America is about sex. Dude pulls out his penis to pee and suddenly it’s a sexual weapon.

    Don’t get me wrong. I’m a product of this society too. I share American prudish modesty. But unlike you I see it for what is. It ain’t lib or non-lib. It’s about being a sex obsessed American.

    Does this foolishness cause such a brouhaha in some European countries? In fact if I’m not mistaken gender reassignment surgery started in Europe.

  290. Plus Rabbit all the examples you gave are NOT public restrooms. We are not talking about shower facilities at athletic venues or beaches. We are not talking about places where folks are completely naked.

    So yes. You’re an ass. Shelterford Lawson has showered in a “communal” setting and it wasn’t the fucking restrooms at IBM or Applebee’s.

    Dump a keg of beer on your head to put out the fire, please.

  291. And why can’t you folks ponder the notion that a tranny who hasn’t completed the transition, is as sensitive and embarrassed about what she’s packing as you seem to be?

    Ya think a man who wants to be a woman tells the girls in the restroom “hey look at my dick!!!” They don’t even want a dick so why are they waving it at Muffy?

  292. “Men already dress as women to improperly gain access to restrooms. It’s rare and it’s already illegal. For the millionth time, it’s against the law to harass people.”

    And when it becomes legal? When kicking them out goes by the name of discrimination – what then?

    “I thought the NC law dealt with public restrooms, not locker rooms and shower facilities. So you’re stretching the case or to put it differently, you’re doing the slippery slope thing.”

    Bathrooms are to showers what civil unions are to marriage.

    “You’ve already acknowledged that trannies already use the women’s room minding their own business. So let it be.”

    What is now rare, voluntary, and charitable is next on your gimme list. So no.

  293. “And why can’t you folks ponder the notion that a tranny who hasn’t completed the transition, is as sensitive and embarrassed about what she’s packing as you seem to be?

    And?

    “Ya think a man who wants to be a woman tells the girls in the restroom “hey look at my dick!!!” They don’t even want a dick so why are they waving it at Muffy?”

    Whatever the fuck are your fantasy is leave me out of it.

  294. “We had to basically tell these 3 or 4 baby boomer libs at work that we refuse unisex bathrooms a few years ago. Libs get off on unisex bathrooms.”

    Same here.

    What is it about unisex bathroons, Rutherford?

  295. Whatever the fuck are your fantasy is leave me out of it.

    Don’t flatter yourself. You’ve already said a tranny bothering you will become the new normal so you’re in it, not out of it. If you can’t handle the conversation, complete with words like “vagina”, then don’t participate.

  296. Because I grew up in this country I find the notion of unisex bathrooms awkward. With our culture, I can see women finding it twice as awkward.

    The fact is public fornication is illegal. So if we could just acknowledge that we don’t pee and shit where we fuck (unless we’re VERY kinky), then unisex bathrooms aren’t so odd. There would likely be no urinals. All stalls. Complete privacy. No problem.

    BUT this is America. So all bets are off.

  297. Men in the ladies room, Rutherford.

    “The fact is public fornication is illegal. So if we could just acknowledge that we don’t pee and shit where we fuck (unless we’re VERY kinky), then unisex bathrooms aren’t so odd. There would likely be no urinals. All stalls. Complete privacy. No problem.”

    What?

    Help. Does this make sense to a non-libtard?

  298. China is claiming and arming disputed islands in the Pacific and in America we’re having debates over where someone can and can’t take a shit.

  299. Oh by the way, Muffy criticized me for my “fake” argument about too many laws.

    It wasn’t fake. It was sarcastic.

    And did anyone notice Tigre dodged it? C’mon Tigre. Please defend more government intervention.

  300. @Rutherford – You prepare the kid, listen hard, and dont wait too long to bust in if you think the kid should be out already.

    See now that wasnt so hard now was it?

    Its a bigger problem for the parent of a son because the odds are stacked against him. Mommys who carry hand wipes can shave off a few seconds.

    The article you put up is hardly enlightening but you should read the last paragraph yourself. We have been pretty calling it rightly and offered the same solution.

    So whats the real reason you want unisex bathrooms? You a wanna be peeper?

  301. China is claiming and arming disputed islands in the Pacific and in America we’re having debates over where someone can and can’t take a shit.

    A sign of Dear Leader Obama’s astute leadership skills. Hope & Change

  302. “The fact is public fornication is illegal. So if we could just acknowledge that we don’t pee and shit where we fuck (unless we’re VERY kinky), then unisex bathrooms aren’t so odd. There would likely be no urinals. All stalls. Complete privacy. No problem.”

    Wtf?

    How do you have a wfie? I don’t know if some circus of curiosities sired you out in the creepy 3rd tent or if it was the same doctors that produced many of the lab created villians in the Marvel universe that found you a mate. (a rip on you, not your poor wife)

    And you said the Tea Party was astro-turf?

    Some things are embarrassing in front of the opposite sex because it’s ever so not sexual.

    You think equating bathrooms and locker rooms is a “slippery slope” fallacy? You also think the reason we didn’t want to have unisex bathrooms with the boomer libs was it was too sex-amped and edgy?

    It’s called dignity.

    Good old Rutherford. He is incapable of imagining obvious real life consequences. Classic lib.

    Your 12th grade daughter is in one of your revolutionary people’s bathrooms used by both genders.

    Throughout the country, 9 hundred million dollars are spent refurbishing all toilets with doors (most of the work in the public sector contracted out by connected firms, of course) . Now all of your daughter’s comrades use the same bathroom. And the male comrads won’t stop laughing about how loud your daughter’s shit was.

    Hucking, your response is part of the problem. I see it alot. Some insane liberal attack on what is ordinarily deemed mundane and the temptation to say “I can’t believe we have to argue about where we take a shit when Nation X just did some Dr. Evil on the globe”. Noticed how quick Rutherford agreed with you and feigned interest?

  303. “It wasn’t fake. It was sarcastic.”

    It was childish and stupid.

    You busted me Rutherford. It’s a law so being a conservative means I’m against it? That’s an argument from a grown man? Duh.

    Can’t wait to share that one with others.

    And dumbfuck, dick or no dick, the law is a reaction to the trending statutes in other states that let the invader decide for themselves what gender they “identify” with. Address that.

    So why else should we normalize gender confusion? Oh yeah. In your little world Europe does it. Yeee haaaa.

    God you’re an idiot.

  304. The way I understand the logic of this argument here and elsewhere leads me to a conclusion. Clothes are meant to cover us or make us look better. What is underneath is the only reality.

    We are supposed to be so tollerant that we are who we feel, and we have the freedom to dress and act as we feel. Physical reality has little to offer. If someone looks like the other sex through surgery and hormones and has a chance of a change in legal status, it is one thing, but for the rest, no.

    Why couldn’t I declare myself to be a lesbian woman who cross dresses as a man? I could shower in a woman’s locker room and get a better show than from an old Playboy magazine. No one could read my mind.

    I also have more Finish-Sami blood than Elizabeth Warren, the Indian. I could joik while showering.

    What is wrong with this logic besides my wife’s attempt to kill me?

  305. “Why couldn’t I declare myself to be a lesbian woman who cross dresses as a man?”

    Nothing whatsoever. It’s not even what you “believe” it’s what you claim about your identity. Rutherford thinks that determination is something everyone else must accommodate regardless of the consequences ’cause Europe and California and other shit he doesn’t know about, understand or appreciate.

  306. @ Huck I don’t know if you’re serious or are just busting’ balls again but I find your comment fairly tragic and shallow.
    Debates can be had,and must be had on domestic and foreign policy issues concurrently, it is the way of the real world. It is also worth noting who in this presidential election cycle has what views on these issues.
    NK testing missiles,Russia deploying replacement missiles and all of China’s antics should be discussed.
    Whether there really is a heroin/opiod epidemic in America and whether government needs to act or allow Darwinism to roll on is a good debate topic. Self identification in opposition to biology and normalcy is also open to much discussion. I personally welcome it all;however,at no point do I personally believe the discussion is centered on the headline.
    If you seriously think this discussion is about “where someone takes a shit” then you missed the mark.

  307. “Basic dignity is a priority to me.”

    Then too bad for you if it requires a law to protect. Apparently you can’t support a law and remain true to your other priorities — according to Rutherford.

  308. Rutherford your logic dictates one course of action and one alone and that is that you and I are entitled to enter the ladies room. Do you see that?

  309. It’s entertaining that there are Trump mobs and anti-Trump mobs.
    It’s what makes for news cycles.
    The American progress is illustrative of a butterfly morphing into a caterpillar.

  310. Ahhh…just in time to bust the balls of the SJW Feel the Bern crowd. 😈 How much better the world could be if we could just trash all the old white men and spin them off the globe.

  311. DR, as usual you’ve misinterpreted my comment. It was actually meant as a dig at those who feel the need to identify who and what they are by the bathroom they use.

    I don’t need a sign on a door to tell me who I am. I pity those that do. And not in a good way.

  312. Alfie, it’s interesting that you accuse me of being shallow and missing the point of the toilet debate as it applies to the greater debate of self-identification and normalcy, yet I’m not seeing much in the way of that greater debate as it applies to this forum. What I have seen is hundreds of comments discussing bathrooms. If you want to go after me for missing the point, then feel free to make it in the first place. (which you’ve now done, but only after the fact)

    I pointed it out with snark because I was feeling snarky. But the basis for my irritation is that we’re even forced to have the discussion. And it isn’t the side most here are on that is forcing it.

    I mentioned before that unisex bathrooms won’t end the debate because it will make the trannies feel bad about themselves. Whether the intention is meant to be inclusive or not, it will be twisted into a separate-but-equal argument. Similar attempts at that policy have been met with replies that are basically “no, I’m a woman (or man) because I say I am and because of that I have the right to use that bathroom.” That comment wasn’t meant to suggest I am against it. I actually like Muffy’s answer—let the free market handle it as it applies to private businesses. In public places offer unisex, and if someone doesn’t like that potty they can go use one where it is acceptable for them to use the one they want. And as usual I also favor state’s rights on the issue.

  313. “NK testing missiles,Russia deploying replacement missiles and all of China’s antics should be discussed.”

    But the country isn’t discussing it, which was sort of my overall point. And that point wasn’t applied to this forum exclusively.

  314. And on a final note, my advanced apologies if someone did in fact draw the connections I claimed weren’t drawn. Admittedly, I pretty much stopped reading much of this after people began discussing whether they sit or stand.

  315. “Good old Rutherford. He is incapable of imagining obvious real life consequences. Classic lib.” -DR

    Sounds familiar. I don’t know where I’ve encountered that thought. . .

    Oh yeah. This very fucking thread. Glossed over by Rutherford English As A Second Language Lawson:

    “In a similar [vein], I think conservatives usually anticipate bad/probable outcomes whereas the left always the opposite.”

    But in his defense, Nixon, Hastert and Cheney and stuff.

  316. A few of us did draw conclusions you claimed weren’t drawn. We may have been more clumsy. Some of it has bordered on disgusting. I can be disgusting too.

    An Estonian girl listed her goals for her new You Tube site. She provided a time line for the number of hits she wanted and bragged that she was reaching them. She could have been Donald Trump.

    This video touches on gender identity and hidden agendas. “Don’t trust them. Don’t trust me.” applies to this discussion. As progressives say do it our way and shush.

    She is just a ghost to the nine and ten year old boys who had a crush and the girls who wanted to be like her. This girl is in her twenties now. She tired of it all and disappeared from all social media. Her vanishing has made her a minor cult hero as she continues to pile up the hits and speculation about her fate.

    She is as much a ghost as Hillary is this time.

  317. Some insane liberal attack on what is ordinarily deemed mundane

    You’re joking right? It was conservative legislation. The libs didn’t start this fight.

  318. Rutherford your logic dictates one course of action and one alone and that is that you and I are entitled to enter the ladies room. Do you see that?

    Yes and no.

    What partly makes this exchange silly and therefore makes Rabbit, Tigre and mostly Muffy silly are the numbers. Guys claiming to be women and going in the girls room simply isn’t a thing. It’s click bait blown out of proportion by both sides.

    If laws have to be made then they should specify that where public nudity is the norm (athletic and beach showers for example) people must go in accordance with their anatomy. It’s not about feeling like a woman. If you have a penis then you have to publicly bathe with others who have penises.

    However, in the instance of relieving oneself in a private enclosure, some accommodation to people going through a transition is not unreasonable. In such instances, because it is in a private enclosure, NO ONE KNOWS YOUR TRUE GENDER IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!! So it actually is a nothing burger.

    Dignity is not the first word that comes to mind when it comes to taking a piss or a dump, regardless of what company I’m in.

    I’m really glad that Rabbit feels a strong sense of dignity because he know the person in the neighboring stall has a dick. If I’m ever in a public loo and the guy next door sighs:

    Ahhhhhhh, the dignity!!!!

    I’ll know it’s Rabbit and I’ll have a good chuckle.

  319. @ Huck- OK I guess. I imagine thread discussion is showing its negatives primarily its gaps yet again.
    I don’t think people are educated or invested enough into appreciating the happenings in the Pacific and I definitely think the stuff with Moscow is played up too much by the MSM.
    Domestic issues move people at certain times in history and foreign issues at other times. I think we,America that is, is at one of those times where there is a grave domestic focus.

  320. @ Rutherford Should states be allowed,expected or utilized to foster societal “norms” in your view?
    Perhaps a question that should’ve been asked before now.

  321. Maybe I’m missing something but laws by their very nature foster societal norms.

    What alters this debate is that underpinning all the legal rhetoric is the moral judgement that transsexuals are sick, psycho, perverted. Anyone who denies that subtext is either blind or lying.

    Yes laws reflect and encourage societal norms. Perhaps we have a chicken-egg thing? Should changes in the norms change laws or should laws be used to prevent changes in the norm?

  322. In Germany they would pull off to the side of the road and do their business, men women, and others.
    Does anyone remember pay toilets? There was some stall hoping then.
    In today’s world you pay both coming and going.

  323. Well you’re nowhere near concrete enough for me. I like one part of an earlier Huck comment that people shouldn’t need a door sign to identify/validate them. I agree with that but personally up it. It is not societies job/duty to validate the individual.
    My personal position on the bathroom issue is that you go into the one which holds true to your actual physical gender. I am open to allowing the private sector to weigh market forces as to whether they want to have individual restroom facilities that serve any and all. I don’t think the public sphere should have to over accommodate though. I am actually a supporter of the pay pod/kiosk things for public spaces. I cannot support gender blind showers in schools etc although I personally support shower stalls. I think the gang shower should be reserved for prisons not middle and high schools. It doesn’t build character to shower with 20 other guys.
    Bottom line I support NC and MS looking to assert a level of normalcy,because YES I do indeed view transvestites,transgenders and gender fluid folks to be ABNORMAL.

  324. Should changes in the norms change laws or should laws be used to prevent changes in the norm?
    Depends on the change. Allowing another human being to use a drinking fountain or sit at a lunch counter is an example of where a law should change the “norm”. I think endangering peoples physical and mental security is an example where the law should work to prevent a change of established norms.
    For me personally I want to stress that the latter swings both ways for me. I don’t think a gender confused/curious or transitioning person should be made uncomfortable or endangered any more than I think others should be forced into an arrangement that does the same to them.

  325. Does a bear shit in the woods?

    It depends on how it orientates. Maybe it doesn’t identify as a bear at all.

    The whole dimension of the thing makes for silly discussion. Let communities deal with their misfits. Don’t dose us all with the government cures. We all aren’t suffering a common illness. Damn legalists anyway!

    Norm is a relative term used by authority to cause conformity and force certain control. Universal is what ALL would naturally expect without the need for written decrees.

    This dust up is just an example of another fight not worth fighting. The scent is in the air, however.

    Governments are poisoning and killing peoples while stealing land and resources in record degree, yet we’re concerned with separate but equal dignified public pooping. It doesn’t register high on a humanity priority list in the grand scheme of all things. Most of these issues are contrived.

  326. “Maybe I’m missing something but laws by their very nature foster societal norms.”

    Says the guy who represents the community where 40% of males are either locked up or felons.

  327. James,I’d have laughed harder if it dudn’t hurt so bad. That was unreal. And the teenage girl in all of them cheers.

  328. Our role in international terrorism is making us less secure all the while proving to the world we could really be that great satan we have been accused of all along. It just may have taken some time to truly flesh out the role. Domestically we are only concerned with what face we put forward and how that affects our collective dignity. But the law of sowing and reaping supersedes this nation and all of its laws.

    A tribal elder from Pakistan is in the U.K. this week in an attempt to get Britain to persuade the United States to stop trying to kill him. Malik Jalil, from the village of Waziristan on Pakistan’s border with Afghanistan, has a role as an intermediary in settling disputes. He is a member of a community devoted to trying to keep the peace in the region, and he is sanctioned by the Pakistani government.

    Malik claims he has been put on a ‘kill list’ and targeted at least four times by U.S. drone strikes for his role in attempting to prevent violence between the local Taliban and the authorities.

    Insistent that the Americans don’t want peace in Waziristan, Jalal believes the progress made in his special role improving security is what has put him in the American crosshairs.

    http://theantimedia.org/man-begs-america-stop-drone-strikes/

    How long will this fantasy last, the one that believes we will not be held accountable for our national acts of evil? The weight of our collective sin is becoming unbearable on a global scale.

  329. Rutherford, I’ve never been to Shelby Township but I think its pretty nice. Very safe and boring area. You are on the North East Side (most here would say East Side). I know nothing about most of the East Side suburbs and can count on my hand the number of times I’ve been there. I’m a west sider.

    I’ll hook you up with the real tour. Hook you up with best Lebanese food. Good Polish food. Show you the ruins of Detroit. I’m like a Pashtun when it comes to guests. Let me know.

    The militia types are up north, btw.

  330. No? No we aren’t an evil nation,
    or no the banks are not enslaving us,
    or no your mind is unable to replace its deep-seated indoctrination?

  331. No, we’re not an evil nation. The opposite of noble and or angelic is not evil so the hyperbole is unbecoming and unworthy.
    No, Waziristan isn’t a great place that somehow resides in a vacuum and has ills only secondary to US drone operations. The truth is the drone program finds legitimate targets even though I personally find the overall drone project counterproductive.
    No, Jalil ‘s position is not one of peacemaker in the terms put forth in any of the articles sympathetic to his alleged plight. He is part of an element that holds a questionable level of disdain for the Taliban but that has proven time and again more aligned with them than either Washington DC or Islamabad.

  332. @ Rutherford some key points to note. there is an assumption in the pro-Sanders camps that by going to single payer with the higher taxes and the essential elimination of private insurance would somehow miraculously cause employers to raise wages equal to the level of what was previously spent on insurance premiums. THIS IS NONSENSE!!! Even if the employers were not facing higher taxation there isn’t an employer who is going to increase wages by the mythical 5-10 thousand/yr ranges people dream of. JUST AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN BUNKIE.

  333. @ Pools I am in pretty good straights financially so I don’t buy into econ conspiracies. I have that luxury. I also have the grace and peace of accepting that most things that happen to me happen to me because of….ME. I don’t buy into the false narratives that some jew or other entity schemes me daily. You should throw the “indoctrination” stone pretty fucking lightly.

  334. @ Rutherford the patio guy is liberal super biased professor out of UMass Amherst. Stroking Bernie is right up his political alley. The guys positions are instead agenda stuff though,totally biased.
    So there I counter the message and messenger. Have a nice weekend.

  335. I’m happy you’re feeling so confident and secure smug, Alfie. I’d bet your closet sports a full tie rack too.

  336. Why would any sentient human being believe a single payer healthcare system would be superior to a privately insured health care system, when we have a microcosm of single payer healthcare called the VA, where people are dying on waiting lists to see a specialist?

    Sanders’ supporters demonstrate a remarkable depth of ignorance.

  337. I used to think single payer best, but nothing administered by a government could be best choice imo anymore. Take the VA. I know there are a lot of good medical professionals in their system but it’s the system that’s the problem. It is designed to work against veterans at ALL levels. I think families and communities need to relearn basic survival skills and begin to take back responsibility of taking care of themselves and thereby starve this obviously bloated and sinking beast. Too big to sail.

    It seems obvious now, that the Big Banks/Goldman Sachs, used the threat of collateral consequences as the economic legal argument for avoiding prosecution, despite having no legal justification to do so. As a result, the Big Banks basically showed how they are more powerful than the U.S. justice system, as they were immune to prosecution despite being proven to have broken the law. As John Titus argues, this is basically a Coup D’état, where the rule of people is more powerful than the rule of law. This is commonly understood, but now it should be cemented as actual legal precedent, rather than pure speculation.

    http://www.zengardner.com/too-big-to-jail/

  338. Alfie, thanks for the link. I will check it out but two points:

    Regarding bias, the WSJ chose to publish the half of patio profesor’s analysis that they liked and ignore the rest. THAT’s bias. Also it amazes me that economics, which should be mostly mathematics, should have any bias at all. Either the numbers add up or they don’t. But yes, I understand the bias lies in the presentation of the numbers.

    As for the theory that employers will pay their workers more in the single payer world, I fully agree with you. It has nothing to do with flaws in single payer and everything to do with corporate greed. Many of them will pay as little as humanly possible.

  339. Rutherford gimme some of your inheritance. Don’t be greedy now. I need a new car and that’s how I want to pay for it.

  340. I’m sorry, Rutherford.

    More bad news is not a surprise. Obama bragged that ISIS had had a bad couple of months. The expected shoe has fallen. American and Turkish forces attacked ISIS in the Turkish-Syrian border region, but the enemy was too strong and pushed the attack back. The fighting has triggered another exodus of families. One worker told the Wall Street Journal that “the entire Syrian-Turkish border is on fire now.”

    Turkey wants permission or the US to create a safe zone in northern Syria, but Obama said it is too dangerous and difficult to protect.

    You voted for this man and may vote for his successors.

  341. I’m sorry,I miss typed my e mail address.

    I’m sorry for your misfortune.

    Obama bragged about our success against ISIS, but they have pushed back a Turkish-United States backed attack. We knew this was coming.

  342. Thanks James and Tigre.

    My wife and I have been walking a financial tightrope so long we are practically numb to it. Is it Super Mario where the character keeps walking and manages to step from beam to beam just as the beams get closer? That’s been me for ten years.

    Got laid off.
    Used up severance.
    Then used up 90% of my 401k trying not to sell the house. Just as 401k was about to give out, housing market got a bit better and we sold the house.
    Lived cheaper, got a low wage job, tried to keep up with debt.
    Wife got laid off.
    Used her severance and my low wage job.
    About to run out of her severance when Dad died.
    Paid off debt, put money aside for kid, replaced 2 clunker cars and lived in that plus my low wage job.
    Got laid off from low wage job.
    Dad’s money all gone.
    Using wife’s 401k.

    So yes, I’m Super Mario. Every time I’m about to fall another beam shifts into place and I keep walking.

    Until we can get our marketing chops working once and for all, there will be no income. So that’s where we are. Trying to get clients to visit our field of dreams. “If you build it, they will have no idea who the fuck you are and they will not come.”

    Them’s the facts. If anything changes you all will be among the first to know.

  343. I’m impressed by the Springsteen open letter and even more impressed that Tex liked it. It was respectful and measured.

    We live in a very fucked up world so I fall back to Rodney King. Can’t we all just get along?

  344. “If you build it, they will have no idea who the fuck you are and they will not come”.

    I know you might not be trying to be funny and this time I’m not laughing at you…. But that made me laugh out loud.

    When I couldn’t find a job I woke up at 3 in the morning and started punching myself in the face in a fit of rage. My wife says that when she learned I’m fucking nuts.

  345. We’ve been coming to the bar so long that I remember your punching yourself in the face story. I completely get it. Few things interfere with a man’s psyche more than the inability to make a living. Our work defines us, perhaps second only to being husband and father.

  346. “If you build it, they will have no idea who the fuck you are and they will not come.”

    That was actually pretty funny, “R.” I’m not laughing at your lot. But I am glad you haven’t lost your sense of humor and watch too many movies.

  347. I’m impressed by the Springsteen open letter and even more impressed that Tex liked it

    On rare occasions, very rare, I can actually be measured. But the best question addressed to the phony and hypocrite Springsteen was, “Why did you book your concert to begin with, when the law at the time of booking was so discriminatory?”

    Rock stars like Springsteen may be idiot savants, though I think Springsteen only marginally talented. But even if Bruce Springsteen were John Lennon, the fact is these rock stars outside the music talent are some the dumbest people on the planet.

  348. My question regarding the transgender/bathroom issue is why are all the comments directed to the female transgender? Are we not concerned about our sons being exposed to the deviate who is a male transgender?

  349. i posted an unusual folk song combining a chant thousands of years old with rock music and varied instruments which illustrates Tex’s point and my impression of the Boss. TRAD ATTACk has become successful in Estonia, and with their current career path, their not being in America is the only reason they won’t someday be as rich as Springsteen and his band.

    Springsteen has a limited vocal range. The TRAD ATTACK female singer displayed more versatility in their winning song than Bruce has shown in his entire career.Bruce owes his success to his being part of a unique American English speaking culture and economy. I’d like to know his opinion of American exceptionalism which helped make him rich.

    “Why did you book your concert” six months ago? It also stood out to me as it was intended to do.
    I like European bands, in part because they are less political and hyprocritical than American liberals.

    Can you find someone with marketing experience or do you have any information you can read?

  350. Emily I stated early in the thread that this brouhaha was about male to female transsexuals and my gut feel was immediately challenged by Muffy and Tigre.

    But you correctly noted the only thing that wound up being discussed here was male to female, just as I said. That’s because everyone is afraid of male perverts. Simple as that.

  351. Thanks James. Yes I’m reading all I can about 21st century marketing techniques. Hell, I could almost teach it despite the fact I’m not yet “working” it.

    As for hiring outside help: just can’t afford it. It’s nauseating just how much money it takes to run a biz with no clients. We optimistically call it investment. But if I can get this off the ground it will beat the living shit out of working for someone else.

  352. Can you explain to me what the “it” is that you are trying to get off the ground as if I was 80 years old and computer illiterate?

  353. As a follow up, you know what really burns my ass? There’s a whole cottage industry of teachers. They make six figures showing you how to do shit instead of doing it themselves. You can’t throw a stick in Facebook without hitting an ad for some “5 step method to bla bla bla”. And they make good money off it. Some are scams. Some are legit. All are expensive (often about 900.00 per student).

    I ignore 99% of them. The bookkeeping course I took was worth the money though.

  354. “That’s because everyone is afraid of male perverts.

    With good reason.”

    Which certainly brings up an interesting point.

    We’re not concerned about men that dress and live as women sharing bathrooms with our sons? Did we suddenly decide they aren’t perverts and deviants? (I think this is the point pfarmily [yes I went there] was getting at)

    Just make all public restrooms single unisex use. Take the money out of other social services to pay for the conversions.

  355. Not hard at all to explain Rabbit. I’m juggling two businesses. The first I’ve had since I got laid off and that’s producing webinars. I’ve actually been paid to do it so not a total failure but I’ve never made a living at it.

    The second is a virtual bookkeeper. I just opened “the doors” on that one in January. By virtual I mean it’s all remote. Everything done in the cloud (I.e. remote servers). My only client is my wife’s craft business. And she just compensates me for most of the software costs, no labor. And yes it’s kinda stupid in that it isn’t really income to my biz, it’s just shifting money around but it gives me experience and I can afford to look like a fool to my wife versus a real client.

  356. Show me a single example of a female getting their jollies in a mens room.

    Hell I’d like to see a female male complaining about the facilities they woukd otherwise use.

    This is all about normalizing abnormal. Period.

  357. “Did we sudfenly decide… Bla bla blah.”

    When did you “suddenly decide” this was an important issue to you?

    (Kidding. We all know it wss when the left suddenly decided they needed a new victim, new cause, new wedge)

  358. We’re not concerned about men that dress and live as women sharing bathrooms with our sons?

    Well I sorta went there when I asked the regulars how much sense it made for a dude in a dress and heels to go in the men’s room. If he’s a perv its a danger to our sons. Regardless it’s a danger to him.

  359. “Just make all public restrooms single unisex use.”

    Fuck no. Just the risk of accusation alone would be insane.

    I bet the pervert predator rate between men to women is 400 to 1.

    The amount sick fucks out there is more… way more… then even most pessimists believe to be true.

  360. @ Rutherford – you only think you’re making a point, and that somehow Raji proved it, but that’s all in your head.

    “Third and least of all – just an observation – if all transgender people were female to male we wouldn’t even be discussing this. This brouhaha is based on the ignorant belief that male to female transsexuals want to be in the ladies room for some kind of sexual perverted thrill. Nonsense.”

    You were wrong then and you’re wrong now.

    We would be discussing it.
    I certainly never don’t believe and never said that “male to female transsexuals want to be in the ladies room for some kind of sexual perverted thrill.”

  361. Webinar = seminar given over the web basically. Think GoToMeeting which I’m sure you’ve seen advertised on tv. Although GoToWebinar is the product I’ve used.

    A CPA has a special certification and is very oriented toward filing your tax returns. A bookkeeper handles your financial books on a day to day basis. Reconciles your bank statements, makes sure all your expenses are properly categorized, and runs reports to help you understand the financial health of your business.

  362. Muffy I guess all dames look the same to you. It was Emily, not Raji.

    And yes, the way the thread proceeded indeed proved my point. You don’t give a second thought to a female to male transsexual being in the men’s room. And I don’t particularly blame you. You’re not in the men’s room.

  363. I don’t think males should be able to move about freely behind closed doors where women and little girls have their pants down.

  364. I don’t feel like researching it but I think it’s a good guess male to female is much more prevalent than vice versa.

    That alone, Tigre, would account for virtually no pervert women going in the men’s room.

  365. Muffy I completely get your discomfort. I think the male objection to it runs deeper and is more based in hatred and bigotry. I think women honestly feel uncomfortable and that’s completely understandable.

  366. You had no point, Rutherford. You rarely ever do. It’s part of your appeal.

    The thread can’t prove that if “all transgender people were female to male we wouldn’t even be discussing this.” If it can’t, then it didn’t.

    “This brouhaha is based on the ignorant belief that male to female transsexuals want to be in the ladies room for some kind of sexual perverted thrill. Nonsense.”

    This is pure crap.

    As to your latest attempt at a point –

    “You don’t give a second thought to a female to male transsexual being in the men’s room. And I don’t particularly blame you. You’re not in the men’s room.”

    Any woman in the men’s room is risking her life. There’s a second thought.

    “Muffy I guess all dames look the same to you. It was Emily, not Raji.”

    LOL.

  367. From what I read the implementation in Paris is mostly single occupancy. In other words, most restrooms with multiple “stations” are gender segregated (with a few exceptions) but there are a large number of unisex single occupancy toilets which obviously removes any threat of harassment.

  368. “I think the male objection to it runs deeper and is more based in hatred and bigotry.”

    They care about women.

  369. The corporate restroom:

    Back in my IBM days, co-workers would see the bottom of my cane behind the stall door and say “hey Rutherford, how ya doing?” Some thought it hilarious that the closed stall door gave me no anonymity.

    On another note, a co-worker and buddy of mine found himself in the restroom with me when we were on a business trip. We were in our separate stalls and he let a massive fart rip. I did my damnedest to stifle a laugh but I couldn’t do it and once I started chuckling he broke into laughter two stalls down. Two grown ass men cracking up over a fart. Needless to say after we exited the WC, it was never spoken of again. 😀😀😀

  370. Muffy were those Microsoft showers associated with an on campus gym? I find it hard to believe that I will find a shower in the lobby restroom.

    Again, no one here, at least not I, is talking about “women” with dangling appendages showering next to women.

  371. “Muffy were those Microsoft showers associated with an on campus gym? I find it hard to believe that I will find a shower in the lobby restroom.”

    The showers were for us. One or more in every building at the campus where my office was. People in the lobby weren’t allowed to walk around the offices unattended but visitors/guests inside the office suites used the bathrooms with the showers if that’s the one they happened to walk into. The health club was about a mile away.

    “Again, no one here, at least not I, is talking about “women” with dangling appendages showering next to women.”

    I didn’t say we were but the fact remains that at MS we had showers in the ladies & men’s rooms. I only just remembered when you brought up IBM.

  372. “When did you “suddenly decide” this was an important issue to you?”

    I didn’t realize we were required to think things were important in order to comment here. However, causing people to question their own ideas is always enjoyable–even if it means challenging my own ideas, which this question does. It’s quite obvious you feel threatened by it.

    You may not like the way I posed it, but I think it’s a valid and logical question.

    The group here has established they don’t want perverts and deviants sharing a bathroom with their children, that men who dress and live as women are perverts and deviants, and that men should use the men’s bathroom.

    So is it okay for perverts and deviants to share bathrooms with our sons, or are men who dress and live as women not perverts and deviants?

    “Fuck no. Just the risk of accusation alone would be insane.”

    My mistake, I meant “single use”, as in 1 person per room.

  373. I think the 1 person per room policy deals well with the issue as it applies to restrooms and such. After that, as Alfie stated, it generally becomes an issue of how people identify themselves and how others recognize them. And in those types of situations I will always defer to personal liberty.

    How someone else chooses to define their self is not my concern and has no bearing on how I define my self. I am not defined by a sign on a door or even by how others choose to see me. I am quite comfortable and confident in who and what I am.

    Sometimes I’m not so sure everyone here can say the same thing.

  374. Rutherford, can you use word of mouth? I am president of our county historical society. Before we were taking so much time with our grand daughter, I attended other organizational meetings and visited with neighbors. I asked them to join our historical society and as an added inducement, I offered a free copy of our newsletter. I got a possibility at our Republican county convention.

    I wish I knew more about your type of business, but I don’t.

    We all do realize that as El Tigre reminded us, this whole dispute is less about rights for transgendered people than it is for some progressives to change our society and culture.

    First, it was gay marriage. Now this. Once this struggle ends, it will be another dispute. A primary feature is that once the left has prevailed, there will be no toleration for dissent.

  375. Several of us noted that when the slippery slope of same sex marriage finally became official, it was only a matter of time before we moved from the inane to the absurd.

    It’s hard to believe there are people out there even arguing this point. Of course, I once thought the same of “gay” marriage only a few years ago. There’s a few I’d like to say, “I told you so…” One day, millions might wake up to the fact these people hate America, frankly don’t care for your children, and will tear down every norm they possibly can because they are angry and evil.

    Most these “transgendered” people are mentally ill by any clinical definition. I actually feel a measure of pity for them. But to the sick bastards trying to make this a legitimate issue, I hold these assholes in contempt.

  376. “So is it okay for perverts and deviants to share bathrooms with our sons, or are men who dress and live as women not perverts and deviants?”

    Are you talking about transgendered women that want to use the men’s room? If so, my challenge to find an example stands. I have never viewed those born with vagina as a threat.

  377. I have never viewed those born with vagina as a threat.

    Without arguing the merits, why do you get to pull that out of your ass with no evidence and I don’t get to say what my gut tells me?

  378. Rutherford, can I give you an idea to work on in your spare time? You’ve got an interesting life story. You’ve overcome a lot. I truly do admire you for your accomplishments. You deal with more difficult in a day than I do in a year. I thought of you last week one very lonely night.

    Have you ever thought about writing a self-help book for the disabled? What you’ve learned, how you adapted, how you overcame, even how you manage to keep your attitude positive?

    Recently for about 10 days, for no known reason other than congestion brought on from a sinus infection, I started experiencing panic attacks as if the world was closing in on me. I would rather be in severe pain then experience what I experienced. Living alone for two weeks made it worse. I went four days without sleep because just the thought of lying down sent me into v-tac. I’m damn lucky to be alive. If my heart weren’t still strong, I have no doubt I would have suffered a massive coronary a week ago last Thursday night.

    I didn’t want to wake anyone up at 3:00 AM. I walked the dogs for hours, I went to Walmart. I drove around with the windows down just to get wind in my face. The minute the sun came up, I was outside. The days were tolerable and I could calm down by occupying my mind. The nights were sheer terror.

    I couldn’t even sit at my desk to log on to the computer. Reading was out the question. The best description I can give you is it felt like I had been buried alive. And the worst part is, I couldn’t turn my mind off if that makes any sense.

    My wife when she drove up a week ago last Friday morning, she looked at me, put me in the car and took me to the emergency room. They gave me some antibiotics, cough syrup, and six anxiety tablets. My daughter doctor didn’t even want me taking the tablets because she said with a mild case of sleep apnea like I’ve got and working on no sleep for over 100 hours, she was worried it would relax me so much, I might not wake up. Last Friday night, I looked at my wife and said, “I would rather be dead then live one more night like this.” 20 minutes after I took the pill, I never made to the light switch. For 9 hours, I slept with 240 watts staring me straight in the face.

    Last night, it finally went away as quickly as it came. The emergency room doctor told me I had all the symptoms of PTSD and started quizzing me about stressors. I told him I have probably the most stress free life in existence. But I could not turn my mind off and relax.

    I honestly am telling you this as an idea. People like me need know how you have learned to cope.

  379. Let’s see how THIS works.

    Woman is undergoing sex change. Breasts are gone. Hormones have been taken. For all intents and purposes she looks like a man BUT she has a vagina. Does the NC law force her into the ladies room? And if so wouldn’t she scare the shit out of Muffy or any five year old girl?

  380. It wasn’t very difficult to find an example, but I do genuinely appreciate that you replied.

    I can’t remember the name, but in reading a FB comment discussion on the issue 1 commenter posted a picture of a skinheaded, tattooed, muscle-bound porn star who looked very much like a man but was evidently born a woman and still has all of the…appropriate and functional…women parts. I even made the disturbing mistake of seeking Google confirmation. The commenter pointed out that the person will be using the women’s bathroom when they visit North Carolina.

    Don’t get me wrong, here. I would certainly prefer that everyone eagerly assume their traditional norms as it applies to, well…most things. But it’s not my place to tell other people how to live their one chance at life. As long as what someone wants to do doesn’t infringe on what someone else wants to do, I just can’t accept that as a problem I need to worry about.

  381. “Without arguing the merits, why do you get to pull that out of your ass with no evidence and I don’t get to say what my gut tells me?”

    Because i didn’t offer it as your truth. See my rant at 11:05 on April 12th. Moreover, you again speak for women and you’re just wrong. But I do, again, acknowledge that you “care.” 😆

    So correct me. I have in two different topics asked and will accept correction because I don’t know if my experience is worthy of credence. Have you or any man you’ve ever met or read about feared a woman in the men’s room was a sexual predator? For real. You told me women don’t care — and that came as a shock to my wife and all of my colleagues (without exception).

  382. Tex thanks for your advice. Despite the ego on display here, I’d have trouble giving life advice to the disabled short of “learn by watching me”.

    Funny thing is, my life is on the toilet rim right now so it feels like I should be the last person advising anyone.

    I’m truly sorry for your medical scare. One of my regrets was that I dismissed my Dad when he considered moving to a retirement community so he wouldn’t spend so much time alone. He ended up dying alone just as he feared he would.

  383. Huck, I was looking for an example of a predator, not just a nonplussed transgendered man with an agenda. I had no doubt anyone here would locate that in less than 2 seconds. Have you seen the reverse of the guys putting dresses to take pictures of women in the mens room?

  384. Saying “women don’t care” was lazy on my part. I mean to say women by and large aren’t the ones bitching about it.

    Want another gut assessment? Male to female trannies get a lot more acceptance from women than men.

  385. Have you seen the reverse of the guys putting dresses to take pictures of women in the mens room?

    That was confusing as shit but I think I know what you meant.

    Tigre please do tell me about this picture taking in the ladies room. My wife has been in a number of ladies rooms in her day and the stalls have closed doors on them. So where is all this picture taking opportunity? Under or over the stall divider?

    Am I saying this has never happened? No. But it’s hardly an epidemic needing legislation.

  386. @ Rutherford – Of course not. Im not afraid of men living as women or women living as men. I have more experience with this than the average person and for sure more than you. Im already adapting to policies concerning preferred pronouns. I use them accordingly. When the time comes for the “freedom fighters” to take away what they cannot demand, and “ladies room” are no more, I’ll adapt to that too. It wont change who I am or what I believe either.

    I dont give a damn what they do in Europe. Some lands offer gender specific holes in the ground. I dont care.

    I do wonder how female astronauts pee in zero gravity but that about covers my concern over what people outside of the US do.

  387. Funny thing is, my life is on the toilet rim right now so it feels like I should be the last person advising anyone.

    See, I think you’re wrong about yourself. The challenge, Rutherford, is not making enough money to make ends meet. The real challenge is how you have learned to cope to make it where you are now. The money issue only adds to the remarkability of the story.

    I feel like I kind of know you now. And I’m telling you, there is a market out there waiting for somebody with your story – not the idiocy of IBM or webinar ploy. But how you live day-to-day.

    I believe you’re going down a path that doesn’t suit you. Your skills aren’t marketing or technical. That’s a losing proposition for the middle aged – leave it to the young and the stupid. That market will one day dry up.

    What people yearn for are corporate skills. What they yearn for is hope and courage.

    Your skills are writing. I think you could do yourself a world of good by simply jotting down these things as they cross your mind. What you take as customary about put me in the grave. I would be the first customer. You don’t have to put your life on hold. Just periodically type up a few paragraphs.

  388. “Want another gut assessment?”

    Not if its couched as insight into others, particularly conservatives. If its about you, then sure.

    “Because i didn’t offer it as your truth.”

    Right.

  389. I do wonder how female astronauts pee in zero gravity but that about covers my concern over what people outside of the US do.

    Male astronauts too for that matter.

  390. Not if its couched as insight into others, particularly conservatives. If its about you, then sure.

    How can that be anything but funny after reading 9 years of the bar patron’s insights into the liberal mind?

    Most folks don’t make gut assessments of things they’re sure of, like their own feelings and beliefs. Gut assessments are always about the things we are unsure of, like the motivation of others.

  391. “Huck, I was looking for an example of a predator, not just a nonplussed transgendered man with an agenda. I had no doubt anyone here would locate that in less than 2 seconds. Have you seen the reverse of the guys putting dresses to take pictures of women in the mens room?”

    No, I can’t say I have heard anything along those lines.

    It did occur to me after a nap, however, that you didn’t really answer my question. In fairness, since you did seek clarification, I’ll try to be more clear.

    No, I am not talking about transgendered women who want to use the men’s room. Or about female predators putting on men’s clothing to take photos of men. Or even about men who aren’t really transgendered, but are doing things to exploit a social policy in order to be perverts. I am talking about transgendered men (men dressing and living as women) who are forced to use the men’s room.

    And I’m not even trying to get anyone to change their position on the issue. I’m simply trying to get people to think and challenge themselves. I shouldn’t have thrown in that added dig at you when I said that before. That isn’t conducive to dialog and I apologize.

    The question doesn’t have anything to do with pictures being taken. If predatory actions, including pictures are being taken, are happening inside a restroom then that’s a crime no matter who is doing it.

    It has to do with the claims being made. It was stated that these trannies are perverts. Now maybe I read too much into that and it wasn’t being generalized to all trannies, but just ones that have displayed perverted and predatory actions. And I admit that is possible, since you keep asking if there is any evidence of predatory women in men’s bathrooms.

    All I’m pointing out with my question is that we are talking about legislating that these potentially perverted predators share restrooms with our sons. Because, as I stated previously, we’re either saying it’s okay for them to do that, or we’re saying they aren’t potentially predatory perverts. That’s not SJW-ism, that’s simple logic.

    Now if you want to talk about a slippery slope, I’m sure you can see where that one is headed. If not, allow me to spell it out.

    Next is legislation that makes it illegal to be transgendered at all. Because these potentially predatory perverts cannot be trusted to share a restroom–or ANY room–with our daughters OR our sons. Personally I don’t care for slippery slope arguments, especially when it comes to legislation. But I am certainly capable of making them if that’s fair game in the discussion.

  392. Damn! This is turning into a support group. I agree with Tex. You might not want to give up your business, but you are a good writer with insights.

    Tex, I wondered why you weren’t writing as much. Thank goodness you are alive. You could have disappeared and we would never have known.

    As you know, I have had some bad times with ghosts who visit me. My best coping aid is music.

    I posted this song before, but I don’t know if you heard it, so here it is.

    The video is about a boy with cystic fibrosis, but to my mind, it is about YOU, Rutherford, and maybe the rest of us too.

  393. The last of the video was made at Red Rocks Ampitheator near Colorado Springs. I have been there several times.

  394. “How can that be anything but funny after reading 9 years of the bar patron’s insights into the liberal mind?”

    There are insights, there are genuine observations of behavior or words. There’s simple insult, which some of us do quite a lot of – me for one. Then there are partisan prejudgments of motives based on your gut, which is gleaned from the teevee and council with yourself.

    “Most folks don’t make gut assessments of things they’re sure of, like their own feelings and beliefs. Gut assessments are always about the things we are unsure of, like the motivation of others.”

    LOL.

  395. As Muffy said, men need to stay out of the lady’s room. And if anyone doesn’t have the street smarts to know why, I have to say… this conversation is beneath me.

    I don’t give a fuck about how comfortable anyone is in their own skin or if you have a live and let live attitude on life. We can’t have men in the girls room. Do you know how many perverts are salivating over this? The fuck is wrong with people?

    As a teacher, I don’t ever allow myself to be alone with a student. I also try to avoid being alone with a female, to be honest. I inadvertently scare the shit out of lone women on the jog path! Now they are going to be forced to be alone with me in a bathroom. Ever see the rape stats in Michigan?

    Any man worth his salt fights this one. Call me old fashion and laugh at me all you want. It’s our duty to protect women and children from the naive and apathetic as well as the perverse and radical.

  396. “I am talking about transgendered men (men dressing and living as women) who are forced to use the men’s room.”

    My first thought – my first remark – was for them.

    “I understand it would be very uncomfortable and even dangerous for a tranny to use the mens room. But this sucks.”

  397. I guess I’m being sassy about your gut Rutherford because I find your instincts generally unfathomable and I’m not just coming out with it. Sorry.

  398. It’s sad … I sometimes worried about meetings with my female employees with the door closed. Was never an issue but I occasionally felt at risk in the event of a she said/he said. Shouldn’t be that way. Guys get a bum rap. And I’m not sure Rabbit isn’t contributing to it with all this talk of male pervs. Where’s your solidarity with your brothers brah?

  399. When I was in the service, we always kept our doors open when women were involved.

    At least one beautiful woman had a medical record with “nympho” written on the folder. It was privileged information, but too many corpsmen looked at the records in their down time and everyone knew.

    No one wanted to be trapped by a female perv. You had better believe some women are as predatory and twisted as some men.

  400. Men have outdoor plumbing and women have indoor plumbing. That and their greater physical strength makes men much more able to rape someone else than women are. That makes men disguised as transexuals or women more dangerous than the reverse.

  401. Huck you’ve confused my comments directed at Rutherford with those directed at you.

    As to pictures. My point isn’t about preventing pictures, or of taking pictures themselves. It was a shorthand for all that creepy dark behavior people have a rational right to fear and guard against. I was addressing Rutherford’s attempt to label that common-sense fear “bigotry and intolerance” because we don’t recognize it when it occurs in the men’s room. Of course it’s crime that both applies to both genders. That’s not the point. It’s about perceptions. The point is that it’s not irrational, bigoted or “intolerant” to recognize and be apprehensive of the obvious fact that this shit is really, actually, truly and just plain fucking “is” one-sided. That is why asked for a reverse example; something to substantiate the pitiful charge of “bigotry.” I am talking only to the rational perceptions that Rutherford seems to think must be abandoned in order to accommodate some bathroom fairness doctrine.

    “It has to do with the claims being made. It was stated that these trannies are perverts. Now maybe I read too much into that and it wasn’t being generalized to all trannies, but just ones that have displayed perverted and predatory actions. And I admit that is possible, since you keep asking if there is any evidence of predatory women in men’s bathrooms.”

    I don’t think that claim was made. It was an accusation made by Rutherford in in his usual straw-man debate style: summarizing your argument with an absurd extrapolation. No one said all trannies are perverts.

    “All I’m pointing out with my question is that we are talking about legislating that these potentially perverted predators share restrooms with our sons. Because, as I stated previously, we’re either saying it’s okay for them to do that, or we’re saying they aren’t potentially predatory perverts. That’s not SJW-ism, that’s simple logic.”

    You are arguing a point not made. Of course horny homos in a public mens rooms that aren’t trannies that are a problem. Ask George Michael or Larry “Wide Stance” Craig. But we’re talking about self-identifying as standard that is the law in some places (I’m guessing your locale is one of them), and that includes those that just say they feel like a woman to gain access to the women’s room. NC is pushing back on that trend with good reason.

    “Now if you want to talk about a slippery slope, I’m sure you can see where that one is headed. If not, allow me to spell it out. . . ”

    You’ve completely lost me. DR said as plainly and truthfully as it can be said. Whatever burden the restriction imposes on the miniscule number of well-intentioned, non-perverted trannies is vastly outweighed by the dangers and burdens imposed on the rest. Simple as that.

  402. “Tigre please do tell me about this picture taking in the ladies room. My wife has been in a number of ladies rooms in her day and the stalls have closed doors on them. So where is all this picture taking opportunity? Under or over the stall divider?”

    Jesus. I think I gave you an example of a dude doing it already. I’m sure you didn’t bother with the link. But for fuck’s sake, try Google for hundreds of thousands of examples, and I’m not talking about the porn sites. I’m talking arrests.

  403. Am I saying this has never happened? No. But it’s hardly an epidemic needing legislation.

    You aren’t very familiar with how this all works. Terrorism isn’t an epidemic, yet we have monumental legislation and security procedures that affect everyone everywhere everyday because of it. The direct costs to comply are well in the hundreds of billions of dollars so far. Who pays and who benefits? Yet terrorism has increased exponentially since we declared war on it.

    Laws do not protect or provide freedom. Period.

    Should we declare a war on love, maybe we will see it multiply and spread at the rate our other wars have popularized drugs, increased poverty and cancer.

  404. So although to my knowledge none of us live in NC,MS or AL and given my state,MA is in fact moving a bill that has the very real unintended consequences of initiating the shit storm that is transgender marriage,adoption,etc. I’m curious to peoples solutions on the matter.

    I personally think transgenders should not be afforded a civil rights level status. I believe this for many reasons not the least of which the legion of reasons created by the LGBT community itself. I do however accept the final product of gender reassignment surgery and afford them all rights and responsibilities.
    For the inbetweeners I just can’t help you other than supporting that the local codes on public toilets and bathing being changed to require a secure neutral single use facility open to all & any. I would support this being put in place in all public spaces including public schools.
    Anyone else?

  405. Poolman, it is not an epidemic unless you are affected. Even if one person suffers, he/she deserves legal recourse.

    Most laws are tolerable because they reflect the mood of the majority. Prohibition failed because the majority disagreed with being forced to teetotal.

    At this moment, I believe the majority doesn’t want half-men and women invading the others’ private rooms. True transexuals are another issue when they obviously have the traits of the opposite sex.

  406. @ Huck your slippery slope argument is way off. I personally don’t believe the legislation that is going around is meant to stop predators and is in fact designed to stop a perceived devolution of societal norms.I don’t see where anyone is ever going to outlaw transgender/vite stuff other than what is on the books all ready.
    That said when it does come to predators in public spaces there are hard scientific/criminology facts.
    Most perpetrators are male. Most events follow the principle of a stronger perpetrator targeting a weaker person. Most events pursue both an element of surprise and a degree of isolation.
    When I say most I mean overwhelmingly so. Isolation means a degree of privacy to assure completion and evasion.
    Personally I find it a very bold outlier that male perpetrators would “trans” just to access a target but if one were to do it,perhaps at the levels of lesser violations i.e. indecent assault,voyeurism etc clearly the formulations work best for male on female.

  407. @ Huck the libertarian. Ultimately my question to you on this topic is this. Don’t people have the right to be secure in their persons and property? Is not the right extended to public spaces?

  408. Alfie or anyone else for that matter?

    What I can’t quite figure out about everything that is going down in culture and economy is the end game. I understand the mission. But what’s the sought outcome? Where do you figure these perpetrators are trying to lead us? Are they dictators in waiting? Are they just drug addled dupes from the 60s, still bent on commune living and we didn’t try hard enough first go around?

    These indoctrinated sheep where most colleges have been taken over by red diaper babies have been incredibly effective at changing the mindset: i.e., socialism is good though the historical record is abject disaster, equal outcomes instead of equal opportunities, America is a racist country, America is imperialistic, tearing down every societal norm when it obviously goes against the laws of nature, all religion is evil, blah blah blah.

    It’s as if 1968 is being played out all over again and America has moved to a state of arrested development.

  409. I think people changing from one gender to another can have doctors’ and other letters testifying they are trans gender to avoid police or other harassment. Their appearance in the latter stages of transition can be disconcerting to strangers. A few of them have been murdered.
    I agree with Alfie, build a neutral place.

    This would also contribute to the safety of transexuals of indeterminate appearance.

    True transexuals who are predatory are of less concern than physically normal men with intact identities passing as women for a cheap grope or worse. It would be rare but no less damaging.

  410. I think the ultimate goal of a few committed people is power to create a European style socialist paradise better than what came before.

    The white patriarchy will be destroyed as will be the dominance of the white race. The chosen whites will do very well.

    Children will be educated to let their betters think for them and to worship the state instead of God.

    The majority of 1968 hippy dippy folks are more like Occupy Wall Street who are unwitting tools of the few who have a serious goal.

  411. James, I believe you are right. I think that is exactly the end game, though my question posed as a curiosity to what each of you thought. I would love to probe these indoctrinating type to see if I could gauge exactly what it is that truly motivates them. It would be an interesting exercise to see just how “charitable” they really are.

    Or is there a darker reason? Perhaps a more self-empowering reason to do so? See, I don’t believe people like Bernie Sanders or these Marxist Leftist professors who mouth the platitudes of fairness really believe in fairness, but in willing subjects to be made malleable.

  412. I too believe there is a good chunk of folk who want at all costs a Super State. It was the founding driver of the EU I see no reason to think people elsewhere don’t share the desire. Technocratic elitist in its makeup using litigation over legislation and culture based populism to push their agenda.

  413. “For the inbetweeners I just can’t help you other than supporting that the local codes on public toilets and bathing being changed to require a secure neutral single use facility open to all & any. I would support this being put in place in all public spaces including public schools.
    Anyone else?”

    In addition to gender specific facilities? Or in place of them?

  414. @Muffy I am a huge and longtime supporter of no males shelters. I have personal experience that having males present in a segregated shelter still causes issues.

    I think initially the addition of bathroom X is the way to go. Where there is both currently but only single facilities in each I say take the sign off both. This makes sense even without gender benders present as the wait for a ladies room spot tends to be longer.
    On a large scale like an arena or airport setting I think the stalls could be made ultra private and the sink/ mirror area could be open. I’d prefer not to see that happen though.

  415. To clarify something the additional singles are open to all in my book but are available for the few not welcomed in the usual rooms.
    Personally I would use one of the singles just like I readily used the larger handicap stalls back in the day of having the not quite ready for solo flight kids.

  416. Part of the problem with public restrooms i.e. non-bathing rooms is that local codes dictate the formula for number,size etc. For example in MA a business can have employee only facilities. There is no real dictate on number people to facility ratio and no gender requirements. They can even skirt the ADA piece;however,we do have a clause that requires allowing members of the public with certain medical issues access if certain points apply. In public spaces that are of the accommodation type i.e. arena,airport,restaurants and department stores you get the deal where you have to have facilities,toilets urinals and sinks in proportion to your capacity. On top of this you have to comply with the federal ADA.
    It really is far more appropriate for the code folks to require an accommodation than to have general politics dictate a really really bad policy.

  417. As for bathing locations I go back to my earlier statement of you are what you’re packing. On that though I support a single space for the safety and comfort of those needing it.
    Let’s be clear I don’t think anyone here wants the transgender teen to get his or her ass kicked just because they worked up a sweat in gym. I know I don’t . I personally just can’t accept someone pre-op rinsing off beside either my son or daughter or myself though.

  418. I was reading a comment from Tigre to Huck and for a moment I thought it was Alfie. Conclusion: Tigre only plays the fool when he talks to me.

    I think Alfie has the best “solution” to the problem which I think is also in line with Huck’s sentiments for the most part.

  419. Tex, it IS 1968 all over again. You’re missing the reason. It’s not some leftist revolution by hippies who need a bath.

    Huge swaths of America at either end of the political spectrum are sick and tired of being lied to and left out. I think a common denominator is economic status. Trump and Sanders appeal to folks who are tired of being lied to about low unemployment. Tired of watching a privileged few excel while they struggle. Tired of feeling unrepresented and ignored. It’s “Network” “I’m mad as hell and I’m not gonna take it anymore”.

    We are in a rare case where both conservatives and liberals feel cheated. It is truly OWS meets the Tea Party.

    Sanders has next to no chance to beat the establishment. Trump may very well beat them.

  420. If I were a betting man, Hillary short of indictment will be your next President, R. You and I can be pained equally. The Republican Party is hopelessly fractured, perhaps for good. Maybe good will come out of it some years from now. Most Democrats will flock to the polls because it’s their religion and vote for the ‘D’ candidate of choice. Many Republicans are going to say screw it. I’m out.

    Me? I’ve become such a cynic, I’m almost apolitical.

  421. For what its worth, the Daily Telegraph, I think interviewed a Labor official who said that during the time of Tony Blair, the Liberal Party made an effort to bring in more immigrants to politically hurt the Conservatives. Democrats and big businesses are doing the same to the US to create a dependent class tied to Democrats and a cheap source of labor.

    That seems related to progressive’s designs on our country. I also think they have natural fascist tendencies as some in the anti war movement did.

    Bill Ayres foresaw concentration camps, and Kerry attended an anti war meeting which considered killing several of our government leaders. He argued against it. Some modern global warmists have mused about putting climate deniers into jail.

    These things don’t mean much by themselves, but if given the proper conditions they could become a horrendus weed patch.

  422. Women and children only homeless shelters would be safer for many people. However, some families are intact and it would be wrong to separate husbands and wives.

    Many homeless shelters operate on a shoe string and they are hard- pressed to help people under the current situation.

    I have heard some homeless people say on television that sleeping under a bridge is less creepy than being crowed into a homeless shelter. Maybe with kinks removed, sex segregated homeless shelters would make people safer.

  423. The political extremists of both sides could use angry people for their advantage as Trump and Sanders are doing.

    If I were planing to change the country and had the power to do so I would foster anger and use these mad people as a weapon.

  424. “I was reading a comment from Tigre to Huck and for a moment I thought it was Alfie. Conclusion: Tigre only plays the fool when he talks to me.”

    Perhaps if, like Huck, you’d genuinely (and I mean genuinely) permit yourself to see reality even when it offends the party line and MSNBC platitudes you’d receive a different response, not only from me but everyone else too. I haven’t boarded Huck’s ship on this one but he generally seems to formulate and express his own thoughts and doubts. That makes the exchanges more gratifying. If you don’t get what I am saying, look no further than this very thread with the thoughtless, knee jerk “Nixon, Hastert, Cheney” nonsense and “bigotry, intolerance, discrimination” blather. The analysis begins and ends at the platitude.

    1. A man who turns out 25,000+ folks at a rally in Brooklyn will most likely lose to a woman most people don’t trust. Sheeeeut.

    2. In 2020 I suggest both parties stop the charade, eliminate all primaries and caucuses, and choose the nominee the old fashioned way in cigar smoke filled rooms.

  425. It has never been about what the people want. It is what they will believe and settle for. There will be a lot more disillusioned ones before November.

    Your suggestion won’t even be considered. It is a sham more than a charade. Big money says it stays EXACTLY like it is. We gripe, but comply and thereby give it legitimacy. Don’t comply. Don’t give in.

    Besides, we can’t let these monsters rule and run rampant another four years. Enough is enough.

  426. What a great night cap Tex. Is that a Russian ensemble?

    Chicago and Blood, Sweat and Tears – back when music was music. When a popular song could have a horn section.

  427. I believe Leonid is indeed, R. The rest of the band names sounded Russian as well. And a Scientologist to boot. LOL Weren’t they good, though?

    I’m not sure they didn’t sound better than Chicago. I listened to a few of their other songs and they’re equally as good.

  428. Well, hell. The site does show ad a subscription site on my computer. It just lsunches the video. I see tha Comedy Central has parts of it broken out but not the whole thing. That’s a shame because the whole but is so damn funny, especially Giamatti. I don’t know how any of them kept a straight face.

  429. Detroit savages are now purposely shooting one another’s kids. I’m not talking stray bullet shit. Purposely cruising the streets and executing children. Funny… They look just like Obama’s son, but Obama doesn’t seem to care. So fucking evil, man.

  430. Contrary to the impression I may have given here, I’m not a fan of Quixotic shit. The Sanders campaign has me tired and depressed. I’m ready for him to stop so I don’t have to go through another 8 weeks of hearing how he can’t win.

    After what Bill did to us with his dick back in the 90’s, the Clintons should be in our rear view mirror. The Democratic Party has no moral core. It’s all posture.

    Fuck the Green Party. If I have to I’ll even vote for Cruz. I’m going into Anyone-but-Hillary mode.

    The phrase today has been ”how will Bernie land the plane?” I’m ready to crash and burn the motherfucker.

    Praying for indictment.

  431. I’m afraid, “R”, that Hillary will be your next President. Wait until the American military gets a gander of that. Hopefully, they drop their guns and say screw it. I’m out of here. Let the man haters take it up with ISIS. Let the green wackos adn bigots deal with the head loppers. Gain a new epiphany for an incredibly short time.

    With the advent of Trump, the Republican Party is toast. Well earned burnt toast, I might add. If it makes you feel any better, I will be leaving the top line blank. May not vote at all. But the Republican Party simply needs to let it run its course and let Trump get obliterated as candidate, probably the Senate too, try to retain the house to balance out the grift.

    The way you feel about Bernie is the way I feel about the election. Get it over with. It’s a waste of good TV.

    And truthfully, there’s a certain catharsis to simply tuning it out and living your own life, free from the pandering and platitudes of politic.

  432. Alfie listening to Hillary and Trump last night I was near suicidal. I still am. Hillary will be in office. There’s just too many stupid people in this country.

  433. Trump won among women in NYS last night. By a long shot.

    While Trump loses massively among women in Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Utah, and Kansas. Just for starters.

    Now which of those states do you think a Republican is more likely to win with your typical Republican candidate? NY, or any of those I just listed? I keep reading about this carry over from the Democratic Party for the atypical Donald Trump. Not so much about how much Donald Trump loathed by those who have voted Republican their entire adult lives.

    I honestly think you Trump fans are misreading the depth and the breadth of what the average conservative, married Republican women think of Donald Trump. And it ain’t pretty.

  434. Comment I saw today on Harriett Tubman replacing Andrew Jackson on the $20 bill:

    Cool, now put Obama’s face on the $3.00 bill – where he belongs…

  435. I suspect about the first time they find holes drilled in the women’s fitting rooms, Target will quickly be walking back their new enlightened philosophy with a rather large hole drilled into their balance sheet.

  436. I guess Muffy’s Target shopping days are over.

    But I learned something new. Not only are trannies perverts, they carry drills with them. Gives “Tool Time” a whole new meaning. 😀

  437. You don’t even need the cameras inserted into the holes if you’re a tranny. Just an eyeball centered in the female fitting room and an admission you feel like a girl today. 😈

    I guess in today’s world, sometime you feel like you got nuts, and sometimes you don’t.

  438. LOL The fact that I got that joke Tex means you’re old. 😊

    My bookkeeping instructor makes all these 1970’s allusions and I’m sitting there almost embarrassed that I get every one.

  439. Saw that “R.” Starting to hit a little too close to home, isn’t it? Prince wasn’t generally my style, but I thought him a real talent. Like a few of his songs, though.

  440. I’m starting to wonder, given the increasing dysfunction of our democratic institutions, if the Hillary cult isn’t perhaps registering an atavistic longing for monarchy.

    Tigre, this can be said of Trump as well. Don’t you think?

  441. Prince dead…who cares
    HRC & the moron masses…I don’t think Paglia has her pegged and I find it hard to believe Salon won’t be pressing their lips on her ass whence she ascends to the Oval. The democrats are very much like Paglia in their halcyon 60’s stupidity. They didn’t support Obama for any reason other than his 50% blackness and they’ll eventually buy into HRC secondary to her dusty vagina. The shallow technocrat douchebags that drive the democrat party made her and they’re gonna get her and when they do they’ll smile and wave and love her.
    Trump…not even close to be the same thing R.
    I won’t carry a Tubman twenty. Seriously I won’t. I am a huge supporter of a dramatic revision to our “paper” currency,I actually want the plastic stuff like Canada. I personally think Presidents only on the front and historical images up to and including the civil rights movement should be on the back. Its a fucking sin what Treasury has done.
    Ultimately I get the discussion that in the bathroom one is unlikely to ever know ones stall neighbor was equipped with the sign defying plumbing. That said in a school shower room???!! Fuck that!! My kids school does that and the freak will get free surgery from me and my Ginsu collector set. Selfish LGBT tyrant fucks deserve every beating they get. I like my gay associates just like my straight ones. Keep your fucking genitals to yourself and buy the next round ya bastard.

  442. Well damn Alfie you don’t need to take out your hostilities on Prince. 😊

    When I read Paglias assessment of HRC which I quoted, I immediately thought of Trump. There is a train of thought that says some folks like Trump for his “don’t worry, I’ll take care of it” approach. If they thought a Trump dictatorship would keep the Mexicans out and the jobs in, they’d toss the Constitution out the window so fast your head would spin.

  443. Does anybody have a problem with the kind of scoop TMZ provides other than me and some attorney on Megyn Kelly’s show? I just happened to turn it on to see if anything had been announced about Prince and the entire damn show is devoted to Prince’s death. I guess this is bigger than I thought.

    Whatever happen to privacy laws in this country? If they find out who leaked this drug overdose information from that hospital and it’s a hospital worker, that worker ought to be flogged. If it some associate with Prince, they ought to be thrown in the slammer.

  444. Hamilton essentially established our banking system so as I’ve said before he’s a good choice. I’d let it go bye bye but not for an affirmative action hire. Women need to get a grip that through a mix of ability and misogyny they haven’t contributed to the level of a number of men. Tubman is a joke although she was perhaps the second best out of the uterine posse put forward.

    As for Prince….fuck him! He was neither that good nor that influential to garner the praise and public fawning he’s getting. This is a diversion press event. A number of public entities lit what they own in purple for his passing. RU Kidding me??
    In our collective zeal for idolatry and calming the lessors we have elevated a number of musicians well beyond their talent and true contribution. (Beyonce!)

  445. We’ve been idolizing entertainers throughout generations. My Mother’s generation was Frank Sinatra, then Elvis, then Michael Jackson now Prince….so nothing really new and drugs have usually been the cause of death.

    Actually Prince was influential in that we now have R ratings on albums thanks to Tipper Gore.

  446. “Tigre, this can be said of Trump as well. Don’t you think?”

    Sure.

    Alfie, I was generally agreeing with Paglia’s assessment of Hillary’s supporters, not so much Hillary. But looking back, what’s your beef?

  447. As for Prince, like him or hate him, he was definitely iconic. I’m guessing we’re round the same age Alfie, and if so, you should know that saying he wasn’t that influential in the pop arena is bullshit. His longevity on the scene made him a fixture. There ain’ that many that last nearly 4 decades in pop.

    p.s. I’m not fan and consider him hugely overrated as a musician and songwriter. But you’re dismissiveness is overdone IMO.

  448. I’m really tired of Obama and his legion of PC bootlickers fundamentally transforming America. And I figured if you can’t beat them, join them.

    So I’ve decided with the new money release, I’m going to become a Sharpie artist, chock full of modification for the new currency. Think of it as kind of like a cracka tagger.

  449. LOL. I’m listening to the morning zoo in my car. They are in a heated debate over whether prince was worth a shit and is being over memorialized, or iconic and worthy of it.

    Listening to it reminds me how little I like princes music and “thing.” But I still think that he was a force. I didn’t like David Bowie at all, but I felt the same way about it when he died.

  450. I didn’t like much except some of Prince’s early music, but as el Tigre wrote, he was a force.

    Prince had a rough early life. His parents divorced and he and his stepfather didn’t get along. He ran away from home and was taken in by another family. He had epileptic seizures through his teens.
    “When Doves Cry” may have been partly autobiographical.

    Partly because of his seizures, Prince immersed himself in music. After age 13, he taught himself to play 20 or so instruments.

    Someone asked Eric Clapton “How does it feel to be the best guitarist in the world?” A local radio station said Clapton replied, “I don’t know. Ask Prince.”

    Prince and his wife had to turn off life support for their only baby because he had a rare genetic disease.

    Prince was also a good business man.

    He said cool means being able to spend time alone with one’s self. You are cool if you walk into a room and no one there makes you nervous or afraid.

    Prince is an example which refutes BlacklivesMatter and other whiners of any race. Its true he was brighter and more talented than most of us, but anyone can succeed with the drive and persistence which Prince used to build his life.

  451. I am far more critical or discerning is how I see it. Prince for influence doesnt hold a candle to acts such as Bowie,the Clash,Beatles and other solosists such as say Madonna and Aretha Franklin. I would especially stress that for influence sake James Brown & Bowie actually paved the way for a Prince. Prince unoriginal. Biggest thing out of the Minneapolis scene towering over the likes of Violent Femmes,Husker Du and the Replacements. Still all in all undeniably non influential to music and hardly known beyond Purple Rain.
    Don’t confuse iconic with influential.

  452. As for Paglia piece I just find it off the mark. Perhaps my Paglia bias? Still I think HRC devotees don’t see a monarchy acceptable but rather dream of any vagina in the WH and wax nostalgic of the 90s.

  453. I’ve been thinking about what killed Prince. And if I were a betting man, I would care to wager unlike Michael Jackson’s obvious abuse, I bet they find Prince’s death was an “accidental” poisoning. If Prince really was showing flu like symptoms, something as simple as Vitussin cough syrup mixed with benzodiazepines used to treat anxiety and depression disorders, sometimes epileptic seizures, can be deadly.

    Mix alcohol or any opioid and taken together with benzos which is what they gave me in minor emergency much to my daughter’s chagrin, the effect can relax the central nervous system to the point of respiratory failure. The body can relax to the point the person simply stops breathing.

    It happens too often with people who are not necessarily what most all of would call “drug users.” This very well could have been an unintended consequence.

    And if it true that the man died in an elevator whatever the reasons for death, it must have happened suddenly. My first thoughts were of cardiac arrest, pulmonary embolism, or the synergistic effects of prescription drugs.

    I got some news for the rags at TMZ. This plane diversion they are using as gossip? About how it could have flown on to Chicago or Minneapolis and been there in less than an hour for flu like symptoms? You don’t have an hour when you’re experiencing respiratory failure.

    I may be critical of Prince’s judgment lack of judgment about leaving a hospital too soon or shopping the pharmacy without doctor’s consent, but I think we all ought to reserve judgment. This is happening all over America, young and old alike.

    So a word of advice for anyone here. Don’t treat these prescription drugs like they are utterly safe. Be straight up with your doctor or emergency room about what you are taking if you should happen to go in, even illicit use. It might save your life being truthful.

  454. Interesting comment on cause of death, Tex.

    Prince was a virtuoso, and mostly a showman. Personally I just liked little red corvette and when doves cry but I found him to be sort of hypnotic onstage. Primarily the way he moved, especially his breakout dance moves. I saw him live once back in the day and I won’t deny that I enjoyed the show.

    But I stopped in to ask Huck if he liked Creed. I loved Rocky (1) but not the rest of them. The storyline of this one sounded like reason enough to make a sequel though. Yo, was it any good?