Touching the Face of God

I love space.  I love looking out into the vastness and imagining what is out beyond what my eyes can see.  I love how small it makes us all seem.  And I love the idea of exploring it.  I’ve always been a fan of our space program.  The men and women who build–and ride–the incredible machines that push the boundaries.  Their intelligence and bravery leaves me in awe.

Yesterday (Thursday, January 28) marked the 30th anniversary of the Space Shuttle Challenger disaster.  While America’s space program had lost lives before that tragic day in 1986, this was the first time it had happened off the ground, and it was the first time civilians were a part of the casualty list.  That day, as America watched, 7 brave men and women were killed when their spacecraft exploded 73 seconds after liftoff.  This was not the first space shuttle launch for NASA, nor was it the first launch of that shuttle.  The January 28, 1986 launch was the 25th launch of the space shuttle program, and the 10th launch of the shuttle Challenger.

I still remember walking into the living room, groggy and ready to start the day, when I saw my dad glued to the television.  Dad was no couch potato, but he loved space as much as I do.  He looked at me and all he could say was “it exploded.”  I sat next to him and we watched the coverage together, not saying a word.  I was 18 years old.  President Reagan was scheduled to give a State of the Union address that night.  He cancelled that speech and, instead, spoke to the country from the Oval Office.  He named each of the brave astronauts and told a mourning nation they had “slipped the surly bonds of Earth to touch the face of God.”

Following the Challenger disaster, the space shuttle program was put on hold for a while.  NASA conducted its numerous investigations, and America waited anxiously for the resumption of our space program.  It was a wait that would last for years.

The 26th launch of the space shuttle program took place on September 29, 1988, when NASA sent up the shuttle Discovery.  I also remember that day–it was my 21st birthday.  I was working on a roof in the Southern California sun with a Vietnam veteran.  As the radio stopped its music and broadcast the countdown, we put down our hammers and sat silently.  And as the awesome shuttle lifted up, like the rest of America, we waited…and waited…and waited.  We waited for what seemed like forever.  And when we had waited for what we felt was long enough, we thrust our fists into the air and let out a loud, celebratory cheer.  Our glorious space program had resumed.  Though it was still early, we packed up our tools for the day, and he took me to my first bar.

That, however, is another story.

What were you doing on January 28, 1986 and on September 29, 1988?

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276 thoughts on “Touching the Face of God

  1. I was standing in our kitchen and talking on the phone to a history professor about the part I was to play in his history lecture. The college was about a hundred miles away, and we were coordinating time. I hung up and began taping the launch. The explosion caught everyone by surprise, of course.

    The Mission Control speaker was slow to react and he sounded as if he was speaking to a rotary club meeting. Then, he said that obviously there had been a mishap. John Cinonious (sp) was shaken, but soldiered on with his reports. They repeatedly played the last transmission. I taped it for at least an hour.

    One of my most chilling memories came later when National Inquirer or a similar rag reported that at least some of the crew lived until they hit the water. Maybe it was untrue but it seemed to me that it could have been.

    1988 was in many ways, a bad year. One of the worst droughts since the fifties had decimated our crops. The corn and beans ran out of water and matured prematurely by Labor Day. I was combining corn on September 29 and drove through such a poor crop in sandy areas that it didn’t register on the monitor. We were still in the farm recession and had watched neighbors and former high school class mates go out of business. The shock was trickling up through farm implement dealers, local banks and other businesses.

    As the combine radio broadcast the countdown I was preoccupied while I made another round with my combine and prepared to unload the harvested corn into a gravity wagon. The count down was a metaphor for our struggling business as I calculated how we would cut expenses so we could pay our bills. Fear overrode pride and suspense riding with the space shuttle.

  2. I was sitting in cab and heard it on the radio. Got home and ran inside to see the replays over and over in disbelief. Surreal. I was a senior in HS at the time.

    I still haven’t put my finger on why it struck me the way it did. Always a possibility yet seemed impossible. Something about the teacher on board too.

  3. Ah yes, the space program. I have since learned much about NASA and their origins. The Russians were decades ahead of us in the space race. Back then I actually believed we had surpassed them with our technology and that we actually did put a man on the moon. Now, not so much.

    Something about the van allen belts.

    Anyway, we have Hollywood and the Russians don’t.

    I do remember the Challenger disaster, but I don’t recall what I was doing at the time it happened. Probably at work.

    As a nation, we actually spent serious money to investigate that event – $175 million. We did months of search and recovery in the Atlantic. We gathered and assembled all the pieces parts in a hanger and made a thorough attempt to understand the cause. Within 7 months a report was issued. It was basically determined that safety was compromised mostly due to cost. Lowest bidder isn’t always the smartest choice.

    We did a similar investigation with the Columbia disaster in 2003, $152 million was spent. Monday will be 13 years since that happened. It was determined again that safety was compromised and basically stated that we learned nothing from Challenger, at least nothing was ever implemented. That investigation took 7 months.

    Of course much of what the government does is done to appease the public in an attempt to keep us believing they represent us and always have our best interests in mind. They need our support to continue their crimes against us.

    Compare money, time, and effort to the worst disaster on American soil:

    Public Law 107-306 provided for the reprogramming of $3 million for the Commission. Congress subsequently appropriated, and the President signed into law, an additional $11 million appropriation for the Commission. Recent legislation authorized an additional $1 million, bringing the Commission’s total budget to $15 million.

    Investigation began over a year AFTER the event and took 2 years to complete. None of the commissioners believe they got the truth. Nothing learned and nothing implemented and nobody fired and nobody disciplined. Not a real investigation, more a placebo.

  4. “Monday will be 13 years since that happened.”

    Damn, the event hadn’t slipped my mind while I was writing this, but the date sure did. I’d have included something on that.

    Now I feel bad…

  5. Yesterday I listened to a man on NPR, an engineer involved in the Challenger. I don’t remember his age or his name but he recounted his experience along with another engineer. Two days before take off he said he cautioned NASA to wait for warmer weather as he feared it was too cold for the seals to operate properly. He said after 30 years he stills feel guilty that he was not able to stop the launch.

    I was in FL watching from the beach.

  6. It’s interesting that we can easily remember days connected with a disaster, but not other events. The only reason I can recall so much about the follow-up is that it is connected to a milestone in my life.

    I have a framed puzzle of Discovery sitting on the launchpad and inside the frame are 2 commemorative space shuttle coins.

  7. My Challenger story was rather unique. I was so sick of hearing about MacAuliffe and so sick of the charade that the Shuttle program had become I was vocal in my wishing the Challenger would blow up. A number of folks including dear ole mom were passionate in their attempts to demean me with “well you got your wish” when in fact it did.
    Basically I think putting any stock in the loss of the Challenger and its crew is pretty pathetic and demonstrates the human flaw of quantifying tragedies in the most bizarre and intellectually vacant manner.

  8. As I have stated often enough, I don’t believe anything the government tells us. It is all lies and deception. I read this last year and found it interesting. The comments have certainly grown since I read them. .

    http://fellowshipoftheminds.com/2015/04/30/are-the-crew-members-of-1986-space-shuttle-challenger-still-alive/

    David Icke explains why no one even questions the authorities. Discrediting Conspiracy ‘Theories’ With MATHS? God Save Us From Academia

  9. “Basically I think putting any stock in the loss of the Challenger and its crew is pretty pathetic and demonstrates the human flaw of quantifying tragedies in the most bizarre and intellectually vacant manner.”

    Yeah it’s not like it’s a football game or anything.

  10. Professor Thin Skinned methinks you need a sabbatical. My comments on the AFC game are far from evidence of your most recent offering here. I was going to put a ps on my first comment here that it was by no means an attack on you personally. I didnt because I thought it was unnecessary, guess I was wrong.

  11. On a more earthy note Valdis Dombrovskis,EU Commissioner for the Euro and Social Integration has thrown his support behind a German proposal of a EU wide fuels tax. The proceeds would be put towards migrant absorption. The Germans have apparently killed it but I found the primary selling point worrisome and something I think we will see here in the States sooner than later. The price of gasoline is low..
    Surely there are more than a few politicians and policy humps thinking “$1.80/ gallon is perfect for adding ten,twenty,or thirty cents of new tax”.

  12. Some Iowa legislators were talking about gas taxes last summer.

    I just talked to Ted Cruz’s mother. This is her first trip to Iowa. She is not the only caucus migrant. Scores or more people are here.

  13. There are two impersonal events that I will remember exactly where I was when it happened – 9/11/01 and 1/28/86. ’86 actually hit me harder. For the rest of the day and a few days later, I was somber.

    I was a programmer then, all by my lonesome in a small room with no windows, working in a lab, six months for a new company. I had rock & roll, the station made famous by Roy D. Mercer blaring, which was either music or a joke – always. I can remember the DJ coming on and saying a terrible tragedy has taken place.

    The Space Shuttle exploded.

    I ran for a TV in the lounge and watched on CNN. The replay was over and over again. It made me incredibly sad as if I had lost family members.

    Like you Huck, on that next mission, it seemed like time stood still as the shuttle lifted slowly. I can remember holding my breath, muttering “go, big boy, go..go…go.” When 73 seconds went by, I finally took a breath. When they left the atmosphere, I fist pumped if my team had just won the Superbowl.

    That seems like yesterday. But it was more than half a lifetime ago. If I extrapolate out, chances very good, I am gone to eternity. Gulp…

    Where does time go?

  14. I was in elementary school. We were home because of extreme cold. Bears had won the super bowl the night before. And man was I disturbed that a young teacher died.

    No national news story is even in the universe for me as 911 is in terms of emotional impact outside of maybe Newton.

  15. I was in my IBM office when my boss Pete popped his head in and said “Challenger exploded”. I had already been disgusted by the gimmick of putting a civilian on that flight and I blamed the government for killing her in the process of an irresponsible publicity stunt — while her students watched her die a horrible death on live TV.

    Driving home from work that night I heard Reagan’s face of God speech on the radio and it made me cry. Probably his finest hour. I learned only last year that the face of God coda was lifted by his speechwriter Peggy Noonan from another source. Still damn moving even if not a Ronnie original.

    P.S. I’m not suggesting Noonan plagiarized. The quote was well known by some, just not by me.

  16. Ha ha. Now we learn Obama sent Hillary Rotten at leasr 18 emails that he said he didn’t know about.

    Hope & Change!!!

  17. On Shuttle related stuff tomorrow marks the 13th anniversary of a more powerful shuttle incident. The Colombia reentry burn up. Those folks probably thought it might happen but had to take the chance,not unlike Apollo 13. They also were far more likely to have felt their demise.

  18. I heard the story of Reagan’s quote a few days before the speech. It was against the law, but Americans sneaked across the border and enlisted in the Canadian Air Force to help defend the UK. during the
    Battle of Britain.

    John Magee Jr enlisted at age 18. After training, he flew Spitfires against the Germans. In 1941, he test flew a new version of Spitfire to 30,000 feet and was so moved he wrote “High Flight” on the back of a letter after he returned to base. Hfe died three months later when his Spitfire collided with a trainer plane.

    A farmer said he watched Magee jump from the plane, but he was too close to the ground for his parachute to open. Magee was 19. His poem became so well-known that some television stations signed off with it. It also became the object of parody.

    After I learned the story, the words attained even more meaning than a tribute to dead astranauts.
    I thought the the crew members who died were trained to accept the possibility, but I wonder about the teacher. Did she internalize the danger she was potentially in, or were her last moments of shock and unreality?

  19. So here we are: America has hurt blacks grievously; their progress remains dismally slow. But despite the history of white supremacy, working-class whites are in free fall. These realities make race-based policies a political – and moral – nonstarter.

    Thats part of a study that has looked pretty deep into the topic. I find it pretty powerful point.

  20. Looks like shit just got real for the Democrats. The inevitable candidate isn’t so inevitable.

    I still think Biden could jump in tomorrow and beat her.

  21. I still think Biden could jump in tomorrow and beat her.

    Agreed. Not sure Lizzie Warren couldn’t beat Hillary too.

    I watched some of the Bernie Sanders speech adrwe the caucus and my IQ dropped 10 points just observing the audience. The same mindless rubes prostrating themselves to the same horsechit of healing the planet and ushering in world peace.

    It’s terrifying to think there are that many profoundly ignorant militants walking amongst us.

  22. Lizzie would wipe the floor with HRC if she chose to. Maybe like Mario Cuomo many years ago, she’s got some skeletons she wants to keep hidden? No Godly reason why she should not have jumped into this. But while we’re on the topic of female candidates, I’ll leave you with this image:

    The video shows her kicking and screaming, her heart beating, her legs moving, while advisers around her discuss harvesting her few supporters to throw to Marco Rubio.

    🙂

  23. Lizzie is both a coward and empty vessel which is why she isn’t in it. She could not win and in almost any other state she’d likely not keep her current gig.
    Biden is not going to white knight the ’16 campaign. I think the only outlier that might actually happen is Bloomberg crashes the party and after Super Tuesday I don’t buy that one either.
    @Tex you are correct that the reality IQ of the Sanders groupies is pathetic. Sanders is a rare bird from a bygone era of Americana that had a lot of promise but that is incompatible on the national stage and in these times that his followers get much credit for bringing about. Sanders inability to win & succeed is directly linked to the policies put in place by those that support him. Irony is certainly sweet and bitter at the same time.

  24. No doubt Warren is as you say, Alfie. However, coward and empty vessel also describe Obama – a flimflam so transparently thin, only the depraved find anything appealing about the profoundly stupid, malignant narcissist. That’s why I think Warren could win the nomination.

    And unlike Trump, another transparent, Obama is not even entertaining. Obama is a despicable creature.

    One thing that continues to go unmentioned in the national media and here, is that it so obvious Obama is considered a massive failure by the Left, even if his toe suckers like Rutherford and the corrupt, leftist media can’t bring themselves to admit it.

    Obama may “poll” approving, but Dims like Bernie are calling Obama a reject. What goes around, has come around for Obama. Before the year is out, Obama will lash out at America when he finally realizes he has been abandoned.

  25. Obviously Rubio picked up the folks who knew how to quit Trump.

    Rand Paul had a good night. Fiorina beat out 3/4 of the governers. Hear that.

    Clinton won every coin toss?? Hahaha.

  26. I’m torn on Rubio – he’s actually my second preference. I’m torn because Rubio plays too close to the vest and would go along to get along. I want the media punched, the Feel the Bern stomped, the Clintons relegated to Guantanamo, the SCOTUS under an iron boot.

    I like Rubio because I think he’s the most electable of the Republican candidates.

    And I still don’t know why Fiorina has not caught on. She’s my favorite woman candidate since Maggie Thatcher.

    Watch Thatcher shred these Feel the Bern assholes. LOL They don’t make many women like this. I’d go to war for Maggie any day.

  27. Do not underestimate the power of the dark side. It is strong with Clinton.

    “If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!”

    There really is only one power and those that use it know full well the Source of all strength.

    At the risk of appearing crude, I rearrange each letter of the entity to Nonclit.

    Nonclit and Goldensax will go down, but when? How many will they take along?

    Do you think the next thing will be a Trump 3rd party run, now that Bernie is getting the Ron Paul treatment? Frothy won Iowa in 2012, right? I’m not much of a wonk. It feels kind of sleazy even discussing these slime balls. Ponerology [porno gel yo]

    Bill Gates, [Libl Stage] is providing his services for free. 😆

  28. Oops. I am in moderation. Apparently there is still a ‘filter’ in place. So, I can write Clinton, but cannot rearrange the letters to be Noncl*t. Bummer. :frown:

  29. Our caucus had a record number of attendees. Cars were parked for several blocks down the street. Cruz won our vote with Trump and Rubio following the same as the state wide results.

    Now, we have been having a blizzard which began with thunder snow. Omaha is in the dry slot but our home is still getting blizzard conditions.

    If I think Rubio has the best chance of beating the Democrat, I will support him as I would support Trump. Several people spoke the same opinion. I still favor Cruz, but we need to win.

  30. It has been a long time since I experienced thunder snow, James. There was one wild night on the south plains of west Texas. We are windy in AZ and today was the coldest it has been in awhile. Not expected a blizzard here though. Officially we were to be down to 32 overnight, but it stayed a little warmer here. We did get some rain yesterday, but mostly it’s been just wind. It has gotten steadily windier every year. There was some damage through the central corridor.

    Do you think Trump will run 3rd party and split the base? I think that one of the potential Noncl*t strategies.

  31. “I can’ t support Rubio. I just can’t.”

    Sure you can! You’re not even trying.

    Rubio was kind of irresistible yesterday.

    I don’t agree with Rubio on Syria. The candidate I can remember thinking to myself “I can’t disagree with anything he says” is probably Rand Paul.

    I just don’t get the staying home. You’re no dummy Alfie, nobody can say that you are. But you and Huck – even Tex is tempted – staying home? I don’t get it.

    Or am I assuming too much? You advocate getting out but then voting a write-in? How is that effective? Or were you serious about moving to Newfoundland?

    I admit I’ve given some thought to leaving but the Bavarian Alps or anywhere in Europe anymore doesn’t seem as appealing to me as it once was.

  32. I’m not staying home, I am probably voting Libertarian.

    Let’s face it…I live in California, so my vote hasn’t really counted since Reagan, anyway.

    I’m done with the GOP

  33. I am getting really heavy into local, no-partisan politics right now. Man, these people can sling the shit. The national ugliness we’ve seen is nothing compared to what is going on at this level. This is the trenches.

  34. Poolman, I unmoderated you.

    Carly is not fit to clean Maggie Thatcher’s toilet. The fact she is not taking the hint from Huckabee and dropping out before another humiliation in NH is just evidence of her arrogance.

    But she’s in good company. What is more arrogant than a coin-flip “winner” declaring she won when she clearly had not yet won?

    In November, I will take a picture inside the voting booth to prove to Tigre that I did not vote for that beeyatch. I will gladly email it to him. In fact, I’ll compile whatever evidence he finds convincing if a photo is not sufficient.

  35. I heard the news as I got onto a school bus. In many ways, the music of our culture is dying.

    Thanks for the weather up date, Poolman. It is still windy with blowing snow. Some places had over 20 inches of snow, and thousands of homes had no power. Most schools are closed for the second time today.

    My main choice for president will be determined by his/her chances of beating the Democrat.

    If the worst happened, my choices would be Brandon, Man or Great Bardfield, Essex

  36. Fiorina isn’t fit to clean Maggie’s toilet? Do tell. Maggie would be your great satan if she were here and running. She would hate every aspect of your shallow populist politics too.

    Now she’s some kind of hero or Fiorina is some kind of evil? Or are you just a mysoginist, as I suspect?

    Shit. Someone so intellectually vacant that they support Sanders is judging a hypothetical beauty contest among female conservatives? What a joke.

    A picture is no proof. Your need to feel that sense of belonging will drive your MSNBC-determined vote. And that will be Hillary if she isn’t indicted or drops out before her pathologically corrupt conduct is too conspicuous for even the reliable progressive morons.

    Rutherford you have no ideological core. Just that mindless, trend-following, feel-good shit. Hillary or Hitler would have your vote if it makes you feel benevolent and like your “part of something.”

  37. Rutherford? Are you bitter the Clinton machine is cheatin’ you? 😛 Maggie Thatcher was destroying your Bern Boy with that argument, don’t you know?

    You sure Maggie isn’t fit to shrub Hugo Bernie’s toilet?

  38. Huck, I’ve heard a lot about regional government coming into California and enacting draconian laws, mostly without citizen knowledge or input, though your taxes support them.

    Here is a video discussing it.

    At first I thought this person’s videos extreme and exaggerated. But they seem to discuss facts, though with much emotion. Apparently this is taking place in several communities.

  39. LOL. PM Thatcher would have stuffed Bernie’s head back up his ass and probably shared high tea with Fiorina.

    Whats the big difference between Obama and Clinton? Go ahead, we’re listening.

  40. “PM Thatcher would have stuffed Bernie’s head back up his ass and probably shared high tea with Fiorina.”

    No shit.

    She would’ve slapped Rutherford across the face for his brainless misogyny too.

  41. Whats the big difference between Obama and Clinton?

    Bobo is Nonclit’s mini me. He has a long, long way to go to catch up to her evilness.

  42. Rand Paul gets off the clown car bus. Probably the one with the rightest, sanest ideas. Of course we can’t let any of that poison the pot.

  43. How about he finds a new nickname because the one he thinks is so clever is stupid and just more misogyny on display.

  44. I don’t consider that ‘lady’ human therefore symbolically de womanized/humanized ‘it’. It needed a new name while it continues to devour its own. Not intended to offend real women. Symbols direct us. I like to flip it. I played through some other anagrams that hopefully wouldn’t manifest such sensitivities, but they wouldn’t post due to whatever imposed censors/filters have been put in place. So. Be. It.

  45. Your pathetic attempt to rationalize your misogyny excuses you not. It doesnt even make any sense.

    But at least we know how you really think. If you can call it that.

    The whole war in women is based on the mistaken notion that WE all think like YOU all.

  46. New York Times “Obama’s Mosque visit demonstrates tacit acceptance of a form of gender apartheid. It is not so much a war on women as subjection of women.

  47. Rutherford don’t give sheet. Bernie promises free shit to everyone from… everyone.

    You really gotta be one ignorant mofo to take Bern seriously.

  48. Mmmm ok maybe the article doesn’t show right on my cell but the headline about intern pay wasn’t discussed in the accompanying article. As for the other stuff, HRC will air if it’s true. For some reason Jane gets a lot of shots thrown at her. I find that interesting.

    Did anyone notice that I told Tigre I’d provide whatever proof he’d find sufficient and then crickets. Actually, insults followed by crickets. Tigre won’t answer because if I could prove a vote for anyone-but-Hillary it would ruin his pugnacious theme. C’mon Tigre, step up! Unless Bernie wins you’ve got until November to state your terms. I triple dog dare ya!

  49. “Of all the things folks should find most offensive about this election is all the religious pandering.” #Election2016

    Obama preying at the prayer breakfast?

    Obama’s campaign stop at the mosque?

  50. For someone who claimed to ignore my comments you have invested much effort criticizing them/me. I don’t think you have a handle on wellness, mental or otherwise.

  51. Obama’s example of muslims under attack? A muslim man in Chicago PAUSED and thought twice about laying down his prayer blanket in public the day after the San Bernidino terrorist attack.

  52. @ Muffy I dont think I’ll be not voting as I don’t see Rubio making it. I think Rubio takes 2-3 state primaries and then goes away hoping to be someones number two.
    I cant support Rubio for a lot of reasons. Immigration,Cuba and foreign policy being the big 3. I also don’t trust him on a host of domestic issues.

  53. Rubio is an attractive candidate – probably the most electable Republican. And though I wouldn’t vote for Trumplodyte, I would vote for Rubio.

    But here’s my main problem with Rubio. What has Rubio done while Senator to shake up the corrupted system. Where was Rubio about ethanol subsidies in Iowa – clearly a massive waste of taxpayer money? The supposedly brave Trump was crowing for more ethanol subsidies.

    Did Rubio take on Harry Reid or Nancy Pelosi when they waged war on the country? Did he criticize Boehner or McConnell when they were selling out?

    It’s not enough to simply defeat Hillary Clinton. America needs to defeat DC too – the whole damn system is broken. Either return to the government back to We the People, or the changes are superficial.

    And I’ve only seen one guy in this campaign cycle with the stones to rock the boat.

  54. The ethanol stand was brave. And correct. And singular.

    Yeah Alfie I do agree that Rubio does require a degree of overlooking. Maybe too much.

  55. Hillary’s anti-charm has required the Dems to run her as a plug to stop the Republicans from stopping the dismal tide.

  56. I forgot to mention something last night.

    My vague recollection of Maggie Thatcher is that she and Reagan were best buds. No, Thatcher’s politics was not compatible with mine. That wasn’t my point with the Carly comment. As I recall Maggie conducted herself with the utmost dignity and had a history of accomplishment. In that regard Carly can’t hold a candle to her. Simple as that.

  57. “As I recall Maggie conducted herself with the utmost dignity and had a history of accomplishment. In that regard Carly can’t hold a candle to her. Simple as that.”

    That may have won the most worthless comment ever made on the internet award.

    You know nothing of either, but don’t let that stop your misogynistic blather.

  58. ” A muslim man in Chicago PAUSED and thought twice about laying down his prayer blanket in public the day after the San Bernidino terrorist attack.”

    Lol. Was that really the moron’s example?

  59. WARNING: Objects in your imagination may be realer than you think…

    49.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8g144h1AY1qzbiclo1_500.gif

  60. Two things Rutherford. I came across a dtory about Michelle Obama and I’m blown away that folks fawn over her and that that pool be so shallow. Second and I wish I could give you the screen shot but I saw a picture of HRC and Sanders and it made her look kind and him lost. To say vast amounts of media humps are not in the tzbk fir Clinton and pimping the public id naïve snd dumb.

  61. Ahhh Tigre, the Phil Donahue of the Bar and Grill.

    The funny thing is I was probably starting on the 3 R’s while you were in diapers. I remember more of the 80’s than you think and I damn well had and have a general impression of Thatcher. Never said I was an expert on her. Simply said she had class. Carly don’t.

    Here’s some mysoginy for you Alan Alda, you know why HRC will never be president? Because not enough men will be willing to have her yelling at them for the next four years. All I could think as I watched the debate tonight is how she must’ve sounded yelling at Bill when he got caught being blown by Monica.

  62. To say vast amounts of media humps are not in the tzbk fir Clinton and pimping the public id naïve snd dumb.

    No argument there. Matthews has interviewed her 3 times in as many weeks, all softball, and not interviewed Sanders once. And he keeps parroting the socialist bullshit. Sadly Bernie doesn’t understand in America democratic socialist = socialist = communist. To some extent he’s being hoist upon his own petard.

    Do you know she had the gall tonight to suggest a woman can’t be establishment?

  63. “Do you know she had the gall tonight to suggest a woman can’t be establishment?”

    Sounds kinda like “a black man can’t be racist” to me.

  64. That reminds me, Rutherford. You mentioned the 3 R’s. I recall they stand for reading, writing, and arithmetic. They started out f**king with us as kids! I never liked that. Always looked like an ‘r’, a ‘w’, and an ‘a’ to me. That might set okay with Forrest Gump, but it never set right with me. I have been stripping off layers of lies going back as far as I can recall.

    Public school was probably the foremost and strongest means of indoctrination and brainwashing for our generation. Some of us had church for that too. Next was the teevee, which carries the programming through adulthood. I school, they made us pledge allegiance to the flag and force fed us falsified history to regurgitate on a repetitive basis, all meant to conform us to a predetermined standard. I guess I have difficulty conforming. I went to 9 schools before graduation and they all repeated much the same lies, though the curriculum did vary. Most teachers did not know they were spreading bullshit. Many just had a heart to teach children. A few still do. To many it’s just a job.

    Most Americans consume fluoridated water which is accumulative.

    Our generation survived leaded gasoline and DDT fogging our neighborhoods to control mosquitoes.

    These too have long term effect.

    Our generation saw stores stocked with processed foods along with a rise in fast food restaurants. The tastes were chemically altered to encourage more consumption of these products, most of which contain little real food and plenty of addictive sugars. None of this is healthy and therefore it is easy to observe how we as a culture have been so completely dumbed down, so much as to even consider a Hellery mascot. A sane public would have her hung or impaled as example.

    If Bernie was truly in this to win, he would focus on the criminal record of his rival. That is IF they truly are rivals. I think she scares the crap out of him and he jumps when she barks. Her enforcer shut down his attempt to recount caucus votes.

  65. “The funny thing is I was probably starting on the 3 R’s while you were in diapers. I remember more of the 80’s than you think and I damn well had and have a general impression of Thatcher. Never said I was an expert on her. Simply said she had class. Carly don’t.”

    LOL.

    I never said you didn’t have a “general impression” of Thatcher.

    Thanks for clearing things up. Heavy duty “impressions” totally bereft of meaning. What could possibly motivate your contribution? 🙄

  66. John Dean told Nixon there was a cancer on the Presidency which must be excised or his presidency would be in danger. We face the same disease which has infected our culture and politics.

    Obama’s statements about Muslims made before a mosque which has had terrorist connections and his acceptance of the subjugation of women because he has emotional ties to the religion is one symptom of the disease Two leading Democrats fighting for the title of most leftist socialist while witless rubes cheer them on is another symptom of the cancer which threatens to destroy us.

    Chemotheropy and other treatments carry side effects just as candidates who might improve our lot do. We are in such danger that I will vote for anyone who has a chance of defeating the Democrats whether he be Rubio or Trump. I prefer Cruz, but all that matters is we defeat the Democrats. Whatever harm flawed Republicans inflict will be less serious than the institutionalized evil progressives have imposed on our country.

  67. Oh Jeb. Put mom back.

    This is very uncomfortable. Maybe she should break down and prepare something to say because zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…

  68. A Russian immigrant said at a town hall meeting that Trump Is popular with her friends and relatives in Russia, Its is just an anecdote as this video is.

  69. Tigre that article honed in on exactly what it has been about Clinton’s speeches that was driving me crazy.

    “The actor Christopher Walken famously takes scripts and removes all the punctuation from his lines so that he can come at the dialogue in fresh, unexpected ways. Clinton seems to have done something similar. Talking about Republicans, for instance, she says, “They will RIP? away the progress we have made, SET? us back, and if they HAVE? their way, they will RETURN? to trickle-down economics, which will MAKE? it even HARDER? [pause] to FIX? the problems that we still have to deal with from the Great Recession.” Walken’s strange line readings make his performances oddly memorable; Clinton’s make hers vaguely unsettling.”

  70. LOL. Thanks again Tigre.

    “And that’s just the performance part. The stump speech itself is a formless hodgepodge. She hugs Obama, she name-checks Planned Parenthood, she talks about an unspecified plan to defeat ISIS. In extended haiku form, her speech is essentially this:

    Guns.

    You have to fight. People will knock you down.

    You have to get back up.

    And fight.”

  71. As usual, Tigre you have trouble following threads but in your defense before I talked about Thatcher I should have included the quote to which I was responding. I was responding to Tex lauding Fiorina and comparing her favorably to Thatcher.

  72. Poolman, there is a book with a title like “Lies Our Teachers Told Us” or some such thing as that. I haven’t read it but it deals with your theme of bullshit history taught to us through the years.

    I don’t doubt that fluoridated water has some long term effects. I accidentally swallowed some fluoride at the dentist a few weeks ago and it fucked me up the rest of the day.

  73. No trouble following threads.

    I’m not dignifying your stupid “general impressions” by pretending it was anything more than misogynistic crap.

    Stay Classy Naperville.

  74. Pools, a quick anecdote from a counter culture friend of mine.

    When he was in the first or second grade, the teacher told the class to write a particular sentence on a piece of paper five times. She walked around the room and when she got to him she said “you wrote it once perfectly. Now four more times.” To which he replied, “if it’s perfect, why do I have to write it four more times?”

    He now lives in Canada “off the grid”. “Normal society” never made sense to him.

  75. Tigre, unless Thatcher was a man, how am I a mysogynist?

    You know who would have been preferable to Carly? Elizabeth Dole.

    I don’t have a problem with women. I have a problem with beeyatches.

  76. Rutherford, just a little research will destroy almost everything they told us was historical fact. Most teachers are just passing on what they memorized in school. They don’t like nonconformists. At all. When you discover something isn’t as you were told, you should begin to question everything. I can’t ignore it. My mind wants to determine purpose and motive. Many I know would just rather not think about it in hope it just goes away and they live out their day comfortably numb.

    Have you ever seen the show America Unearthed?

    Your friend in Canada was definitely more outspoken than I was at that age. I was rather shy and became somewhat introverted due to moving often, which is fairly common among military dependents. There are support groups for us ‘military brats’, and I had a group I was involved with on fb some time back. Most of us are quick to adapt to new surroundings. I did not rebel until the age of 16. Even then it was a fairly tame rebellion compared to others I know.

  77. Rabbit, I read today of a boy and his dad that drowned in Lake Michigan. Broke through thin ice heading back toward shore after ice-fishing. Dad tried to save his boy and he too succumbed. Their heavy clothes bogged them down. Very sad. Broke my heart. Boy was only 4 and dad only 30. Be safe!

  78. 94 percent of the ‘terrorist’ cases that get to court since nine eleven involve the FBI setting some patsy up. I suspect this is more of the same. From the link: In December, the undercover FBI employee and Abu-Rayyan had “daily conversations” that took place “over the course of several weeks,” said the affidavit. The dude doesn’t even understand jihad. The article does however contain all the currently approved terror talking points, so it likely has government approval. 🙂

  79. “When you discover something isn’t as you were told, you should question everything.” Are you sure Poolman? Everything covers a lot of ground including your existence. Might you be an imaginary character Rutherford cooked up to add color to his blog?

  80. No one has yet solved the mystery of our existence. At least not provably. There are some that think it all illusion. I know it’s all in the mind of God, but what does that even mean. We feel, we breathe, we wail, we bleed. But is there more?

  81. The Word says “But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong” and “For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: ‘He catches the wise in their craftiness’;”

    And my favorite during this season: “Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.”

  82. That reminds me – the candidates are getting fat on the trail.

    Bernie mentioned it recently and I noticed both Hillary and Marco have packed on about 15-20lbs.

    PS…misogynists take note. Think…it’ll come to you.

  83. How is Carly Fiorina a bitch, Rutherford? Unless Donald Trump, nothing much to look at himself, referring to Fiorina as ugly, Carly Fiorina has been nothing but classy, sweet and funny on this campaign. Her “smile” at the second debate made me laugh at loud – that’s straight out of Mrs. Taylor’s cynical sense of humor.

    I really do think you have a hang up with strong women, Bro R. I suspect 25 years ago, Margaret Thatcher was on your chit list too, much as you pretend otherwise here. Is it the Angela David effect? 😈

  84. My eldest daughter and her husband have been really into this current campaign cycle. From the get go they have been supporting Bernie, big time. Recently it has served to frustrate and disillusion them. She wanted to discuss the campaign with me, but my wife told her it wouldn’t be wise, given my current political beliefs. I am not very sympathetic in that regard.

    Over all, I see this as a good thing, in that today’s youth is getting a good close look at the fraud that poses as our government. AT ALL LEVELS. Bernie is the same establishment kool aid, albeit with a slightly different flavor. Just as nutritious.

    Scott Creighton has always been a liberal, but can often see through the media’s smokescreen.

    Bernie Sanders will never confront Clinton on the subject matter that she should be confronted on. The email server scandal is proof of that as are his milk-toast attacks on her regime change operations. He wont mention the donations to the Clinton Foundation from a Ukrainian oligarch just prior to her beginning a regime change operation in Ukraine. And he wont mention all that missing money from the Haiti relief fund or the dictatorship she set up in that country since the disaster.

    Bernie Sanders is not running a campaign to be president. He is serving as a sheep dog, directing all those young, idealistic, disenfranchised American voters back to the warm embrace of the Democratic Party on behalf of Hillary Clinton.

    That’s why he doesn’t attack her on the issues that she is the weakest. That’s why he deliberately avoids going for the jugular.

    https://willyloman.wordpress.com/2016/02/06/bernie-sanders-is-not-a-socialist-and-he-is-not-leading-some-kind-of-revolution-we-deserve-better/

  85. “Why does the Obama administration not side with the reformers”?

    Because he was raised in a Muslim culture. While he was not a practicing Muslim he adopted some of its attitudes and values. He joined Rev Wright’s church out of political convenience. Obama has as Sofia Jannok observed, created a foreign occupying regime

    Poolman, we may a child’s drug induced nightmare.

  86. Poolman, we may a child’s drug induced nightmare.

    You could be right, James. We do handle our societal problems like one.

  87. Piffles, James. I expected a certain amount of speculation perhaps but that doesn’t even make sense in response to the question. Muslim reformers were raised in a Muslim culture too.

    Re-asking, in earnest.

    Why isnt anyone listening to Muslim reformers?

    Why does the Obama administration side against the reformers?

  88. Why isnt anyone listening to Muslim reformers?

    Why does the Obama administration side against the reformers?

    What would an example of a Muslim reformer be in your book Muffy?

  89. I think I am right. If you read a little of Obama’s past my conjecture makes as much sense as anything others have offered. If I am wrong, why did Obama side with the Muslim Brotherhood over Egyptian moderatets ?

    Moderates have been vocal, but they are either afraid to be too noisy or their potential audiences are more attuned to the radicals which may be more mainstream than we know. Reformers are a minority, at least the ones brave enough to speak because the majority either disagrees with their conclusions or they want to keep their heads. They need enough supporters to create a tipping point. Reformers don’t have the capacity or audience to create major changes. They can’t even get Saudi women permission to drive for themselves.

    You asked for a serious answer, and I gave you one.

    If I am wrong, let someone document a rebuttal.

  90. @ Rutherford Loewen is a dickhead who is as guilty of the crime he screeches others are guilty of.
    The bottomline is that the vast array of all that is US History is really hard to do justice to whence using the systematic survey model. Couple that with the reality that the AmericanPublic EducationSystem has never been capable beat that is worth noting. Ultimately be thankful that young Americans are not young Brits or Chinese since they have a whole lot more history to cover. lol

  91. I’ll take a stab at it.

    Muslim reformers are mostly from the west trying to westernize the religion. It is objectionable to those who adhere to the Koran and seek to live out the tenets of their faith as they understand it. It is also written in the Koran that the religion of Islam was perfected and finalized during Muhammad’s time.

    In contrast, our culture promotes and stands for many things they consider abominable. Our society has overtime become more liberal and less moral. That is why most practitioners reside in enclaves, much like the Amish, Mennonites, and Quakers did/do.

    This article does justice to your question:

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/260743/why-americanized-muslim-reformers-are-failing-dr-stephen-m-kirby

    Personally, I think all religion has been used to control people over the ages. There will always be conflict and disagreement within each form of it.

  92. @ Alfie – Zuhdi Jasser, Ayaan Hursi Ali, Shireen McQuade, The Muslim Reform Movement.

    I’m interested in your take on this Alfie. Thanks!

  93. Pardon the long paste Alfie but these folks are in the vein I’m referring to in case their names ring a bell too. I don’t know any of them except for Jasser and Nomani.

    Tahir Gora, Author, Journalist, Activist, Toronto, Canada
    Tawfik Hamid, Islamic Thinker and Reformer, Oakton, VA, USA
    Usama Hasan, Imam, Quilliam Foundation, London, UK
    Arif Humayun, Senior Fellow, American Islamic Forum for Democracy, Portland, OR, USA
    Farahnaz Ispahani, Author, Former Member of Parliament, Pakistan, Washington, D.C., USA,
    Zuhdi Jasser, M.D., President, American Islamic Forum for Democracy, Phoenix, AZ USA
    Naser Khader, Member, Danish Parliament, Muslim democracy activist, Copenhagen, Denmark
    Courtney Lonergan, Community Outreach Director, American Islamic Forum for Democracy, Professional facilitator
    Hasan Mahmud, Resident expert in sharia, Muslims Facing Tomorrow, Toronto, Canada
    Asra Nomani, Journalist, Author, Morgantown, WV, USA
    Raheel Raza, Founder, Muslims Facing Tomorrow, Toronto, Canada
    Sohail Raza, Vice President, Coalition of Progressive Canadian Muslim Organizations
    Salma Siddiqui, President, Coalition of Progressive Canadian Muslim Organizations, Toronto, Canada

  94. Oh yeah. Strike her.

    There are a few others whose faces Id recognize but I cant think of them and cant search them just now.

  95. I have long since stopped listening to anything Obama has to say. What has he said recently that sparked your “Why isnt anyone listening to Muslim reformers? Why does the Obama administration side against the reformers?” comments?

  96. First of all, the government isn’t supposed to get involved or side with ANY religion. Period. We claim we like diversity until it actually comes to our neighborhood. I think Americans are the biggest hypocrites ever. If this president wasn’t put in office to further divide the country, then his handlers screwed up. Big time. I think it WAS the actual plan and intent. Success.

  97. @ Muffy Thanks for the follow through. I don’t know what I can offer on the subject. When I asked earlier I was wondering if it was more global and political in nature.Under that umbrella I think Irans President Rouhani is actually a great example of a “Muslim reformer”.
    I have followed some of the folks on your list and have mixed feelings towards them. On one hand I think some are very sincere about their efforts but I also find a number of them get screwed up secondary to some of the “alliances” they make. In the UK the Quilliam group is a great example. They’re on your list and they have what appears to be a very legit and noble desire to do good. They are also a voice in the wilderness as it is over there when you consider entities like CAGE are making real connections and waves on the other end of the spectrum. Anyways Quilliam has basically been forced to fight for its reputation after supporting the UK’s PREVENT program. Folks in the Muslim community (with the help of folks like CAGE) have grown to be less trustful.
    All in all I think reform in Islam can only come where the more hard line folks are open to either a level of secularism (old Turkey,Indonesia) or cooperative Real Politik.(Iran)

  98. This is pure evil. How long will it be before we string the criminals up? I seriously don’t think we’ll make it to November. I bet the MI governor pays out big bucks for security, especially after this fiasco. Well the taxpayers do for him. I say throw his ass out on the streets of Flint with no means of escape. May he not find peace – any peace – no matter how hard he seeks it, I pray, until he admits and fixes his mess. I really don’t foresee how he can. Normally not a Michael Moore fan, but this isn’t about the messenger. At all. God help us!

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-moore/10-things-about-flint-water-tragedy_b_9132150.html?utm_hp_ref=business

  99. Moore’s commentary is exactly the kind of sleight of hand bullshit I expect to hear from that fucking fat piece of shit. The truth is there is plenty of truth out there about every inch of the Flint Fiasco and Fatso does great disservice muddying the waters with his nonsense.

  100. Rather than spew obscenities, point out a better source for this truth. I’ll consider a different perspective, given you actually have one..

  101. Listen you can either read the volumes of information and see what happened and what mechanisms caused it or you can read Moores screed and take it as gospel.
    With the former you make a rational judgement after assessing information that by no means cuts Snyder,MI etc. slack. The latter you look like an idiot bowing to a dishonest sleaze bag.

    For example Moores assertion that GM got a deal is a lie. GM paid another authority back in 2014 to pipe into their system which used Huron water. GM pays water bills to that authority. The $400k+ number is not money any government agency spent on behalf of GM….It is the loss revenue Flint suffers from not having GM as a customer any longer. The agreement by the way is reversed once Flint taps back into Huron.
    The truth that gets lost by adherents of the Fat Fuck Sloth is that back in 2014 water was in fact deemed detrimental to metal. To metal!!! But drink up. Moore lies and truth dies.

  102. “Comments?”

    Huck, I already made my comment.

    Alfie, you wrote essentially what I did, only in more detail and with more thought. The answer is as clear and indisputable as explaining why the sky is blue. It bores me.

  103. Wow. Moore will put anything down on paper. I guess this the day and age where you do that and some fucking moron spreads the link love. Sad, because there is lots to be pissed off about with Flint.

    Flint getting “bombed” (they bombed me too) isn’t really part of the conversation. Nor is the Great Lakes. Or GM.

  104. @ Muffy all good! Yeah I get that a lot when I bring up Rouhani but he really is,the far right in Iran don’t dig his pragmatism a bit. Now he by no means is ever going to say Islam should look different but he clearly knows the “revolution” can look a lot different. Internally Iran is superior to say Saudi Arabia.

  105. @ pool I don’t necessarily intend to go link nuts but here’s an example of the volumes I alluded to earlier.
    http://theweek.com/articles/600101/flints-water-crisis-isnt-failure-austerity-failure-government
    The author of this piece has actually done some other real journalism and presented a position that Stimulus not Austerity is a culprit in the Flint saga. It is an interesting take and an area Moore & Co. would never look at. The alternative pipeline plan is a very Blue Model government kind of thing and is indicative of how and where government fails,especially whence embracing the Blue Model.

  106. @ Muffy that is indeed a shallowness I think is all too rampant in “feminist” circles. It belittles women imo. Then again that was the mantra of the 2008 PUMA crowd wasn’t it?
    I will say this though about the article picture which includes Corey Booker. I saw that and thought of Clinton + Booker = WH.

  107. ““Comments?”
    “Huck, I already made my comment.”

    Sorry, the capital letter messed up my context.

    I was asking what Obama said to spark Muffy’s comments regarding Islamic reformers. All I had caught previously was that he made some stupid remark about a guy and a prayer rug.

  108. Clinton + Booker = WH.

    That’s a great insight, Alfie. Think you’re definitely on to something. Since Clinton can’t square away the black vote like Dear Leader, find another overrated, nice looking black man with the gift of platitude and baloney to do so. Makes sense.

    As an added bonus, Republicans could be accused of sexism AND racism in any disagreement of policy or pointing out gross incompetence. 😈

  109. “I will say this though about the article picture which includes Corey Booker. I saw that and thought of Clinton + Booker = WH.”

    I thought the same thing when I saw Booker.

    If this comes to pass I might have to rub a few faces in some pushback I got in an old thread here.

    Racially paranoid, hah.

  110. Huck, more of a generality on my part than a particular statement on his and one that I’ve been wondering for a while now. The group I mentioned above and a few of the individuals have protested some of Obama’s rhetoric as well as his appearances with and the alliances he seems to be forming with CAIR and the like, who are at odds more or less with the Muslim reformers to which I was referring.

    I don’t know what to make of it. He seems to reject the more “progressive” and secular Muslin reformers and embrace the religious fundies. That’s why Alfie’s example threw me because it doesn’t follow.

  111. Sometimes the look of a satisfied tattletale crosses Jeb Bush’s face. Or maybe it’s just the good son face he developed as a child.

  112. Huck I am writing only for myself.

    Obviously, part of Obama’s job is to soften the rhetoric and behavior of citizens who might threaten other citizens as Bush did after 9/11, but beyond that….

    Obama asked entertainment producers to include Muslims in a more favorable light. He condemned politicians ,mostly Republicans who criticize Muslims and advocate border control. Speech control is not part of Obama’s job.

    Obama said a war between the two religious is a myth. Many people are speaking moderation and we only need to amplify their voices. He seemed to ignore women who were protesting the unequal treatment Islam imposes on them. The Washington Post reported that some of the women said Obama was hurting their cause.

    Attending services in a Mosque is like being in a Christian church or a Jewish synagogue, said Obama. These statements were half truths at best. The Mosque he visited has had connections with extremists. It also treats women as separate and unequal.

    The attitude Obama presented is similar to his past sentiments and is at least partially explainable by his early past. He feels affection for the culture which raised him for several years. That is a normal human reaction.

    It is the simplest explanation I know for Obama’s beliefs.

  113. Thanks Alfie. I knew Moore to be a propagandist, but thought he was quite accurate on occasion. I have changed my mind going deeper on this one. Looks like he is just in this to stir the left/right pot. It is difficult to imagine such a tragedy of errors. I suppose the karma train is finally making its rounds. Knowing myself how critical quality water is to life and how important it is to ensure its purity, you would guess those providing drinking water for a city would be even more knowledgeable and careful. Just isn’t the case. We assume too much! It is very sad that children are suffering the most, but that is usually the case. The weakest among us and yet the best chance of a thriving future.

    Unfortunately, this is just one of thousands of tragedies across this land. Government is NOT our friend. Just the opposite. The proof is in the water.

    Your link was helpful, but much more opinion than fact. I found the following one more informative re facts and government failure at all levels…

    http://mashable.com/2016/01/24/flint-water-crisis/#PLpu3StJSkqj

    This has been going on for some time there and it really highlights that it is money over people in this land of ours. Oh, and shirking any responsibility. Corporations are people albeit without compassion or empathy. Protect those liabilities AT ALL COSTS. But, but… irreversible harming babies and people are dying… “Just business, nothing personal” 😈

  114. @ pool my comment about real journalism didn’t pertain to that particular article but another she had I didn’t have a link for. The story is a disgrace and as you said government across the spectrum is not a servant to the people. That is one thing we agree upon. Knew there would be something we’d have in common eventually.

  115. From the video in muffy’s link:

    “…and, just remember, there’s a special place in hell for women who don’t help each other… llahhh… llaahhh… llyaahh… So, Hillary, you are not only going to the White House, but to that other place.” – Madeleine Albright

    Yes, yes is. 😆 Not so sure about the WH again, but then Jeb isn’t looking real sharp. Yet.

    I agree Corey Booker looks pretty veepy.

  116. The Daily Caller wrote that Obama implicitly compared Chicagoans to Nazis during the National Prayer Breakfast. Affection for Islam is part of Obama’s identity, as I wrote. Obama probability doesn’t realize his bias.

    For those who still have difficulty understanding Obama’s motivations and the pallid reaction to Islamic reformers, maybe this will be easier. The New York Times in an effort to bolster Hillary’s position wrote that Bernie Sanders who served on the Veteran Affairs Committee and chaired it was so ideologically blind that he ignored problems which were letting veterans die that for two weeks after the story broke he denied any problems existed. Later, he blamed the Koch brothers and conservatives.

    He was one of the last people to recognize that a problem existed. Like the Muslims who barely react to reformers Americans put veterans’ concerns aside. The same applies to Hillary’s e mails or Benghazi. They are too blind to care. Gloria Steinhan and Madylon Albright face the same problem. They face the prospect of Hillary’s losing young women when they should be voting for their feminist icon in droves.

    The same process works in all of these scenarios. Most people don’t care enough to change attitudes and values until they are directly effected.

  117. James, there is a sense of poetic justice in all this when Slick the Serial Philanderer thought he had walked free of escaping any real punishment twenty years ago, only to see younger women of a new generation turn on his pathetic, enabling doormat of a wife for her husband’s many infidelities.

    Like OJ, it took awhile but the Clintons might finally getting their just desserts. Tragically, it looks like Chelsea Clinton didn’t fall too far from the rotted fruit either. But at least I can excuse Chelsea’s behavior somewhat with having such horrible examples to follow.

    Too bad that America is so depraved, that a candidate like Hillary Clinton could even be considered to hold public office, much less the Presidency. But it does speak volumes of how utterly bankrupt most of the Democratic Party.

  118. Not for nothing James but the Daily Caller is full of shit. Now whether Obama and others in the USA political structure give far too much credit to what they’d like Islam to be and be seen as is another matter but to make the judgement on false information and biased reporting is another.

    We can draw such strength from the quiet moments of heroism around us every single day. And so let me close with two such stories that I’ve come to know just over the past week.
    A week ago, I spoke at a ceremony held at the Israeli Embassy for the first time, honoring the courage of people who saved Jews during the Holocaust. And one of the recipients was the grandson — or the son of an American soldier who had been captured by the Nazis. So a group of American soldiers are captured, and their captors ordered Jewish POWs to identify themselves. And one sergeant, a Christian named Roddie Edmonds, from Tennessee, ordered all American troops to report alongside them. They lined up in formation, approximately 200 of them, and the Nazi colonel said, “I asked only for the Jewish POWs,” and said, “These can’t all be Jewish.” And Master Sergeant Edmonds stood there and said, “We are all Jews.” And the colonel took out his pistol and held it to the Master Sergeant’s head and said, “Tell me who the Jews are.” And he repeated, “We are all Jews.” And faced with the choice of shooting all those soldiers, the Nazis relented. And so, through his moral clarity, through an act of faith, Sergeant Edmonds saved the lives of his Jewish brothers-in-arms.
    A second story. Just yesterday, some of you may be aware I visited a mosque in Baltimore to let our Muslim-American brothers and sisters know that they, too, are Americans and welcome here. And there I met a Muslim-American named Rami Nashashibi, who runs a nonprofit working for social change in Chicago. And he forms coalitions with churches and Latino groups and African Americans in this poor neighborhood in Chicago. And he told me how the day after the tragedy in San Bernardino happened, he took his three young children to a playground in the Marquette Park neighborhood, and while they were out, the time came for one of the five daily prayers that are essential to the Muslim tradition. And on any other day, he told me, he would have immediately put his rug out on the grass right there and prayed.
    But that day, he paused. He feared any unwelcome attention he might attract to himself and his children. And his seven year-old daughter asked him, “What are you doing, Dad? Isn’t it time to pray?” And he thought of all the times he had told her the story of the day that Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., and Rabbi Robert Marx, and 700 other people marched to that very same park, enduring hatred and bigotry, dodging rocks and bottles, and hateful words, in order to challenge Chicago housing segregation, and to ask America to live up to our highest ideals.
    And so, at that moment, drawing from the courage of men of different religions, of a different time, Rami refused to teach his children to be afraid. Instead, he taught them to be a part of that legacy of faith and good conscience. “I want them to understand that sometimes faith will be tested,” he told me, “and that we will be asked to show immense courage, like others have before us, to make our city, our country, and our world a better reflection of all our ideals.” And he put down his rug and he prayed.
    Now, those two stories, they give me courage and they give me hope. And they instruct me in my own Christian faith. I can’t imagine a moment in which that young American sergeant expressed his Christianity more profoundly than when, confronted by his own death, he said “We are all Jews.” I can’t imagine a clearer expression of Jesus’s teachings. I can’t imagine a better expression of the peaceful spirit of Islam than when a Muslim father, filled with fear, drew from the example of a Baptist preacher and a Jewish rabbi to teach his children what God demands.

  119. I read the same thing quot Alfie.

    By using an allusion to Nazis, Obama equated Muslim bravery with a dangerous event during the Nazi era. At the worst, the Muslim father would have met disdainful comments and dirty looks. No one would have killed him or his children unless they were mistaken for rival gang members. Confronting one’s possible death is different from facing a crowd’s possible hostility. The brave father and his children probably experienced nothing more than curious glances.

    Were I Obama, I would have used a less dramatic comparison. I don’t think Obama realized what he said. I found it offensive for the implied insult but mostly for Obama’s sloppy thinking.

    Yes, Tex, poetic justice is a killer sometimes. The London Times reported during the height of the scandal that Hillary threw appliances at Bill and Chelsie screamed that he was a rapist. Bill apparently met their price.

  120. LOL.

    It takes a certain kind of courage for someone to predictably insert himself into a conversation, boorishly take it over, paradoxically announce it bores him, and mulishly refuse to yield the last word.

  121. This is a free blog. “Conversations” are not restricted to a chosen few. Anyone who wants to write can. Someone losing an argument resorts to insults or diversions, and you seem to be in that position now. You appear unable to accept that others agreed with me after you dismissed my conclusions. I do like to have the last word when I am right, but nothing stops one from shooting my arguments with contrary facts and getting the last word. You failed to do that. Did you even try?

    You also appear to have a comprehension deficiency. I wrote that the initial question bored me, and I provided a desultry answer. Alfie gave a much better and detailed comment than I did. He actually put some effort into his post . My last reply was from a different fire as I will explain.

    You accused me of inserting myself into a private conversation which as I have explained does not exist on Rutherford’s blog. Alfie wrote a comment addressed to me. He didn’t ‘provide a list of names, he only wrote “James'”Therefore, you did what you accused me of doing.

    My last answer was part of a different issue which did not bore me, because Alfie had written that the blog I quoted was unworthy of reading. He is probably right, However, his quote was the same as what was on that blog. His answer piqued my interest for various reasons. I was no longer bored. I don’t know if he found it on the blog or not, but the Real Clear summary seemed to be accurate and the same as what he wrote. Real Clear’s interpretation seemed to be overly florid. I merely argued why I thought my interpretation was right.

    If you don’t like it. find something to disprove what I wrote. I don’t think you will have any more luck than when I told Rutherford Obama had associations with and probably joined a socialist party when he was a state senator.

    You sarcastically wrote ” it takes a certain kind of courage.” Your reaction and attempt to shut me down takes a “certain type of cowardice” I am not being sarcastic.

    I am not trying to start a war but I don’t run from a fight.

  122. I wrote something which seems to have been lost. Here it is again.

    This is a free blog. “Conversations” are not private or reserved for a few. Anyone can join. If I am in the right mood, I will write the last word. If you don’t like it shut me down with contrary facts and claim the last word.

    You seem to be unable to comprehend a shift in the conversation. I wrote the initial question bored me, and I provided a desultry answer. Alfie did much better and actually gave his answer some thought.

    Alfie addressed a comment to “James” not a list of people,, just ‘James”, He disputed my use of Real Clear and is probably right. but he provided the same quotation I had read on that blog. I wrote my interpretation which came from how I read the story he posted and which I had already read. This was on a trail different from the failure of Muslim reformers. That new comment did not bore me.

    You sarcastically wrote “it takes a certain amount of courage..” after you inserted yourself into a conversation directed at me. Trying to shut someone down with insults and diversions instead of logic and facts is the mark of “a certain amount of” cowardice. You are better than that.

  123. I’m quite pleased with myself – saved a couple of hundred descaling my own tankless water heater – a real wannabee plumber, I am.

    Only problem is I sprayed myself in the chest with pure 5% vinegar at start up. Oops. Even after a shower, my hair smells like a garden salad. 🙂

  124. James, your comments went into moderation because you misspelled your domain name on your email address and WP thought you were a new visitor. I approve all new visitors. The regulars get through automatically.

    I’ve approved both your long comments even though they repeat each other – I didn’t feel like picking the one you liked better. 😉

  125. Because you like the Bernie and because we’ve talked before on the subject of higher Ed in America

    I consider it an apples and oranges discussion. The quality of higher ed – and the advantages it offers in the workplace is separate from the availability of that education to the poor. Saying you want to improve availability does not mean you ignore quality.

    My parents both got a free college education. That was the 1950’s. Bernie ain’t asking for anything new here. He’s asking that we restore what government used to do.

    While we’re on the topic – Hillary’s bullshit that Trump’s kids shouldn’t get a free ride is just that – bullshit. Bernie is not talking about MIT and Harvard. He’s talking about CUNY, etc. Rich folks aren’t sending their kids to public colleges.

  126. I was at an “away” meet in Southern Illinois this past weekend so I have an excuse for ignoring comments other than simply wanting to ignore comments, 🙂

    Christie cleaned Rubio’s clock Saturday night. It confirmed my suspicion – Rubio: not very bright.

  127. Joe Scarborough asked this morning if there was a special kind of hell for women like Gloria Steinem who condemned a victim of a workplace predator back in the 1980’s.

    Damn straight. I truly feel a bit bad for these feminists. They think they are finally getting their chance but damn are they betting on the wrong horse. And their hypocrisy in how they selectively defend their “sisters” is plain to see.

  128. Tex, since she’s not going to be our next President, it’s probably a waste of my time to persist with Fiorina but:

    1. Yes, she actually has a lovely smile for whatever that’s worth. She should use it more often.
    2. She lies and exaggerates more often than anyone should be comfortable with.
    3. She is a failed CEO and Senate candidate.
    4. Her public criticism of Hillary staying with her man, while very very cathartic, was totally classless. My gripe with HRC is not that she chose to stay with Bill. Every marriage is private and none of us can venture a guess about its inner workings. My gripe with HRC is her coordinated attacks on “the other women”, especially a very young woman who was subordinate to the man harassing her (Lewinsky). Carly misses the point in her criticism of Hillary’s marriage. What Carly should be saying is that HRC is a hypocrite, not a true feminist.
  129. She lies and exaggerates more often than anyone should be comfortable with.

    Liar…you talk about Rubio being not terribly bright, and you robotically quote Planned Parenthood and NARAL spew. 🙄

    If Rubio stupid, what’s that make you? Mildly retarded?

    Look rube. You wet your pants over a flimflam who thought he could usher in world peace by the power of persuasion, then followed that by resetting Russia to the USSR.

    Doesn’t get any dumber than that.

  130. Wow, you really DO like Carly, don’t you?

    LOL. Yeah, I do like her. But this has nothing to do with it. Carly Fiorina is exactly right about the character of this nation and bullshit that Planned Parenthood parrots.

    You saw the videos. Can you excuse the callousness and lies Planned Parenthood sells?

  131. Easy chief, Im walkin Im walkin.

    Your blowharding is dismissed as I was responding not to Alife but to your morning blathering after blathering on and on yesterday.

    Drone on! Drone on! And youll neh-ver drone ah-lone.

  132. “If Rubio stupid, what’s that make you? Mildly retarded?”

    It strengthens your argument if youre at least smarter than the one youre calling stupid, dont you think?

  133. Thanks for telling me Rutherford. I wrote twice because the first message didn’t go through.

    Muffy, I am surprised at your inability to understand words or irony. I know you were responding to me and not Alfie. I was responding to Alfie and you cut in
    to a conversation which you proved had no relevance to you. My earlier brather was an attempt to counter your sarcasm and snark.

    Your snark shows you have lost the argument. In case you didn’t notice, your statement could be included in the dictionary as an example of irony. I wasn’t blathering. I was instructing you in the ways of words and their use. You need it.

    We should move on.
    \

  134. LOL. You know what I was responding to better than I?

    Mercy. Reading what you write is usually meh but reading what you write about what you wrote is torture.

  135. It strengthens your argument if youre at least smarter than the one youre calling stupid, dont you think?

    😛

    I shouldn’t laugh as it all too obvious – but not in Lefty world. “Stupid” is fallback for I don’t like her politics.

  136. Tex, I’ve pretty much stopped defending PP. We will never agree about Carly exaggerating the PP sting video so let’s just agree to disagree.

    Carly is absolutely right about the declining character of this country and when she first started running, I started softening towards her because she’s smart and I wanted to watch her murder HRC and give the so-called feminists a dilemma on whom to support.

    But as time passed I found her dishonest, relatively humorless in debate, and basically unpleasant.

    My hope is that New Hampshire convinces both her and Jim Gilmore to give up the fight so we can get down to business.

    P.S. As an aside, and with no insult intended, it’s always dicey to criticize a woman to a man because every woman reminds SOME man of someone they admire or even love and it’s a visceral thing. I’m guessing Carly reminds you of someone you hold dear and it makes your defense more vehement.

  137. “Stupid” is fallback for I don’t like her politics.

    Her politics? Your friend was referring to my comment about Rubio, not Carly.

    And no one here would enter a debate and utter the same phrase identically four times, after being mocked for it after the first repeat. Marco is your Hispanic Obama. Simple as that. He recites from memory because he can’t think on his feet. But he’s daaaaamn purty! He will get the young female GOP vote. 😊

  138. I wonder if Beyonce is going to be standing guard outside of any polling places in November

    It would be her alter Yoncé, since Sasha Fierce was killed off. The obvious mind controlled. Rubio too. That broken record verbatim this last round defies his proven debating skills. These zombies are remote controlled marionettes. Like RC cars. I heard tell they had Carson stuck mid ramp. Someone jammed his signal. 😉

    The music industry, the politicians. I bet the teevee evangelists are too. It’s becoming obvious. They say MK Ultra was discontinued. That just means the name changed and it went deeper. They even have a show out making it all sexy. Who want’s to be mind controlled and given super powers? Kids? Get them while they’re young and impressionable. Sick bastards. It’s a game to the ones moving these game pieces.

  139. Rutherford, you want to talk about some stupid woman? How about we talk about one that really is stupid. And as far as I can tell, her only real talent is shaking her big booty and flashing the camel toe. Yawn. If we’re going to get some woman to do that, let’s get a better looking one.

    How about Beyonce’? What a hypocritical, profoundly ignorant gas bag that bitch is. She’s got to make a black statement. Yawn. That parrot closes down a highway with a police escort, and then trivializes the people who escorted her. To flip a phrase about the NAGS and Madeline NotBright, there’s a special place in hell for no talent black Hip Hop artists stoking whitey hatred. And why the NFL keeps inviting these no talent Hip Hop black racists as entertainment has turned a one-time fun football game into an embarrassment.

    And you know why they are doing it? To pander to blacks and deviants in the hopes of expanding their audience. It works to attract a large audience, but it’s more voyeurism than sport’s entertainment.

    Fans like me who saw the very first Super Bowl when it actually was about football are tuning out by the droves.

    P.S. – Why isn’t Bernie Sanders bitching about the price of Super Bowl tickets? $5,700 for the nose bleed section. 😈

  140. Yes, Muffy, I knew what you were writing about, and then you told me. You need help understanding beyond a fourth grade level..

  141. Rush Limbaugh is right. Those feminists named their price in the nineties and remain in the Clinton camp.

    Beyonce is trying to stay relevant. She also should have worn pants.No respect for her.

  142. “Gloria Lawson? ***GUFFAW***

    Truly. Similar to Mizz Steinham’s insight into the young female Bernie voter being in it for the boys, Lawson’s deep understanding that “purty” Rubio will “get the young female GOP vote” is so blatantly sexist that when he realizes it he will either hide or pretend he was being tongue in cheek.

    Think dawn will ever break over these marble heads that their charges are sodium pentothal-like testimony to their own maladjusted minds?

    “Marco is your Hispanic Obama. Simple as that. He recites from memory because he can’t think on his feet. But he’s daaaaamn purty! He will get the young female GOP vote.”

    The Democrat Blue Plate Special. Sexism served with a side of racism.

  143. James you’re not the authority concerning what I’m responding to. I am.

    That’s the danger in building a point around a single prejudiced premise. Take away the false premise and that point is lost. Deal with it.

    And if we take away your presumed authority in general – well, game over.

  144. Muffy, I have not become the exclusive authority of how you reacted to me and how your thought processes were exposed through observation. Anyone paying attention would notice your disjointed thoughts . I explained it earlier with my blathering.

    Your actions and refusal to let this go confirm that I have won and have moved into a part of your mind. It is for you “game over.” You were too easy and not the challenge I expected. If I didn’t bother you, you would not keep bringing this up or revisiting to see what I had written If this continues the ease with which I have flummexed you might lead me to a sadistic feeling

    We are covering the same ground and making a spectical
    of ourselves. Your inability to make intellectual connections bores me. I have wasted enough time on you. I will respond to you on other subjects, but not this one.

    I have a present for you since you hate the videos I post, I am not sick of you. You are not a challenge, It is time for you to grow up.

  145. Rutherford is an affront to feminism.

    And the black community.

    And the gay community.

    And the hispanic community.

    And every other group that he believes he represents and speaks for.

    Time to address those mommy issues.

  146. High today of 83, James. I’m loving it. No aerosol skies today. Thank God and orgonite! 🙂

    Going out to seize the day…

  147. I like the song, Poolman. I have learned how to fight authority. One of our biggest successes was a new bridge from the DOT. They closed the highway and claimed only 12 people were using it, It took us two years of agitating, and at one point the country tried to take some of our land for a new road. We got our bridge, and authorities said it was a miracle. You can fight authority if you do it right. .

  148. Thanks for the weather report, Poolman. You certainly should seize the moment with 83.

    It is 16 here with a north wind gusting to almost 40 MPH. We have nine inches of snow on the ground and have had continuous snow cover since Christmas Eve day 47 days ago, We had a ground blizzard at times with 55 MPH wind Sunday night and part of yesterday.

  149. Is that what you call winning James because it looks a lot more like butthurt.

    But you were so gracious in victory I feel its only right to acknowledge your original and most salient points –

    1) Obama was raised in Muslim culture. On the off chance that there might be someone here that doesnt know that even without your having blathered on it roughly a million times – thank you for that.

    2) Sophia Jannok.

    Well I guess you told me.

  150. Tex I disagree with NOTHING Limbaugh said. But careful where you tread, you might just be called a mysogynist. 😊

    I’m still a fan of Christie despite his tendency toward bull-headedness. I wish Kasich talked less about his faith. Otherwise I like him too; reminds me of … wait for it … Jon Huntsmann. 😀

    And in a very perverse way I’d enjoy the President Trump spectacle. Were it not for the constraints of government, I think Trump possibly could “deal” America to a better place.

  151. Rutherford. I feel as though I was in the Twilight Zone. I agree with your last comment to Tex

    My first thought over the misfired video was your life must have been pretty bleak,

  152. Were it not for the constraints of government….

    Ummm I’m pretty sure myself,Huck and others made serious attempts to educate you on how exactly some of Obama’s actions were going to set ugly precedents for you and yours to deal with later. That knock at your door is the piper looking to get paid R.

  153. @ Rutherford all candidates face clear obstructions and contradictions to their campaign prattle. Some learn from it and in most cases at least the electorate learns.
    Bernie Sanders energy plan dictates a mandate his own state of Vermont (no right wing stronghold) is talking legislative steps to prevent it.
    Almost all of his other points have been shown the error of their ways as well but there it is.

  154. Pools I got around to reading your Willy Loman piece and Scott seems conflicted to me. On the one hand he excoriates Sanders as a fake Socialist (by the way, Bernie doesn’t stick the word “Democratic” in front of it by accident) but in an accompanying article goes batcrap crazy over Albright and lauds Sarandon for supporting Bernie. I think Scott is wrestling with himself. But then I can’t say I blame him. Look at the Dem choice. You either vote for a candidate who would make history but who is a pretty vile human being or you vote for someone who never got beyond 1968 in his world view.

    My wife keeps reminding me that it is my obligation to vote this November but for the first time in my life I’m tempted to sit it out and watch the chips fall where they may.

    I’ll say this for Carly, who appeared on Morning Joe this morning, if you put aside her Rubio-like repetition of “take our country back” (CARLY STOP IT), she was right that the game is rigged. The RNC and the TV networks decided who would get a voice and who wouldn’t. It ain’t right. And the DNC was even worse, clearly trying to rig the game in Hillary’s favor.

    It’s not a good time to be an American.

  155. One last @ Rutherford moment. Since I have the impression I do of you and your parents I wanted to ask you if you think your parents would’ve voted Sanders?
    The reason I ask is because Sanders is very much a product of a very specific era and place and as a result is exactly the kind of guy he is. He is actually an interesting page in US History albeit one that isn’t really talked about.

  156. @James I know you’re done with this topic but I’m going to score it “we agree to disagree” on the Obama/Chicago/Nazi thing. Ya really need some special lenses to see that speech the way DC plays it.

  157. That isn’t actually what makes Bernie Bernie even if HE thinks & says so.

    Please elaborate.

    Wow it’s hard for me to speculate on my parent’s POV on Bernie. My Dad did NOT like Obama — said he reminded him of Malcolm X – LOL. If he voted for Obama in 2008 it was pressure from me and my sister that made him do it. He may not have voted at all in 2012.

    Antisemitism was a strict no-no in my home growing up, especially with my father. I do have some Jewish blood somewhere in the family tree which may account for it. So I’m wondering if Bernie’s secular brand of Judaism would have endeared him to my Dad. My Mom’s favorite line from some comedian (may have been Joan Rivers) was “hurry up, I’m rich.” So my Mom had zero resentment for the wealthy. She would have disliked Bernie’s class warfare approach. In fact, I think my Mom would have liked Christie. “Gail, it’s none of your business where I send my kids to school” would really have floated my Mom’s boat.

  158. Rutherford although I readily concede Sanders did the whole 60’s anti-war & Civil Rights route I believe he is more a product of his initial upbringing and his later political travels.
    There is school of thought that US cities with NYC standing out achieved a special status in the 20th Century with a focus on the three decades covering 1930-1960. Infrastructure,public works,education and class growth being foundational points.
    I’d put it to anyone including Bernie that his youth and matriculation into Brooklyn College was a big defining gig.

  159. “That knock at your door is the piper looking to get paid R.”

    Ain’t that the truth. And it’s all here.

    Maybe some dumb ass in the year 3016 will learn something from this hope and change tragedy: Emo voting due to personal insecurities and defective character….. The gift that keeps on giving.

    This isn’t my “told you so”. I fear that will come a decade or so from now. It’s going to be ugly.

  160. It’s not a good time to be an American.

    I’m not so sure I agree. But it is probably a difference as to what we perceive that means. I cannot include the current residents of DC or most of our corporate state and city representatives as Americans. None represent the ideals that founded this nation. None respect the expression of liberty our founders intended.

    This is not the land we were born in. This is an inversion of what was and what will again be. That is why I am so critical. I am wholly invested in a righteous outcome and cannot settle or keep quiet until it manifests. It is a battle, and it is raging on all fronts. There is no escape. Even death isn’t the escape many hope for. There is a balance and it will be achieved. Justice will reign, it is just a matter of when.

    Money is our god, though it was not always that way. Consumerism is our mantra, though it snuck in with breakfast. Image crept in and replaced character. Tolerance overcame vigilance. Acceptance overcame exceptional. Integrity gave way to impatience.

    We have a population of persons who are less than human and more than dependent on a state.

    But there is no fear. I am exactly where I am supposed to be at this time, equipped with all the necessary tools to deal. You cannot lose what you never had and you will never find what you do not seek. We are spiritual filters and life generators. To be effective, we need to take in wholesome and solid nourishment.

  161. Kasich suggested we slow down and hug someone. Hard to argue with that. Does it make him a RINO?

    Looks like Christie may be toast. Thank God I don’t play the horses. 😟

  162. A presidential candidate seriously said we need to slow down and hug someone? Did he say we should chew our food thoroughly before swallowing it too? I think I met that candidate.

  163. Feel the Bern, Rutherford! Your man toasted the Pant Suit. You should be thrilled.

    And I will say this. I would vote for Bernie Sanders over Donald Trump. Now I can’t do that for Hillary.

    But I figure if America is this stupid to give us Che Guevara vs. a reality TV flunky , I will pick the absolute worst but lovable candidate available to so screw things up and utterly bankrupt this country, these young dumb asses are roasting in the unemployment line with their free studies degree in hand just to spite their sorry asses for giving us the Massively Failed Dear Leader Obama. 😉

  164. James, the farmer in you should appreciate this. This is how we heal the world once the psychopaths self ignite. This information is awesome and the TED talk video provided at the end goes into more detail and really gets me excited. Mushrooms and fungi rule the underworld and that’s good news for us surface organisms.

    http://www.loveclicks.org/food/paul-stamet-patent/

  165. Yes Alfie, arguing a hypothetical is a waste of time. I agree we should agree to disagree.

    Thanks Poolman. I am definitely interested. We have read of similar proposals before, and they might be safer than pesticides. I wonder how it would affect the food chain and if birds and other insectivores would be affected.

    I like Sanders and it was nice to watch him expectedly humiliate Hillary, but he is promising what he cannot deliver. If he did manage, we would be broke. If this nightmare continues, I will still vote for Trump. We could still face another President Clinton if Trump is nominated.

  166. I still don’t get why so many Republicans are hell bent on electing the one candidate that can’t beat a Dimocrat like Hillary Clinton in a national election.

    I get the anger. I don’t get the irrationality. Is it more important to flip the finger to the “Establishment” than it is to beat Hillary Clinton? Everyone but perhaps Jeb Bush could beat Hillary Clinton in a national election – except Donald Trump.

    He’ll get killed. Women will unite against that schmuck like nothing you’ve ever seen and that’s 53% of the electorate.

  167. I’m enjoying watching the horrid Clintons get their just desserts as much as anybody. But there is a much bigger issue at work that exceeds any joy I receive from watching a harridan, liar and thief like Clinton pucker up.

    The future of this country is looking very bleak for my own adult children when a man like Bernie Sanders has most favored status. I was hoping Barack Obama was a massively failed fad.

    I was wrong.

    Too many of America’s youth are proving to be both innumerate and profoundly ignorant.

  168. This was an interesting comparison of the “Holy” books:

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/heres-happens-compare-violence-quran-210900952.html

    Of the three books, the project found, the Old Testament is the most violent, with approximately 5.3% of the text referring to “destruction and killing” — the Quran clocked in at just 2.1%, with the New Testament slightly higher at 2.8%.

    While the New Testament led in mentions of the concept of love, the Quran leads heavily in mentions of mercy — thanks partially to Allah’s title, “the merciful.”

  169. At the least you should admit (though you likely won’t) the Muslims hold Jesus in a much higher light, as opposed to the other religion that killed Him. And as some of their followers still do.

  170. I agree Muslims do hold Jesus in higher repute than some Jews do, but Jews aren’t waging jihad against infidels.

    This is a mere anecdote about Trump, but it influenced one vote. A friend and her junior high son are very intelligent and she holds a public job. They both like Trump, and we can’t understand why. The son is almost seven feet tall and looks older than his age. He so impressed Trump that Trump invited them to be special guests at a function. Our friend was off put because security hardly searched them. They were told to look for a woman and her tall son. As soon as they saw them, they let them in. Trump bragged about the son and said if he was older, there might be a place for him in his businesses. They had a long conversation. I don’t know enough to even speculate. Could part of Trump’s charm be related to the personality he presents?

  171. One of the problems with our understanding is in the way many words have been redefined to fit the present control paradigm. One in particular that is overly used and rarely understood is

    jihad

    . Even among those who claim to be Muslim. It is the same with every religion. Those gatekeepers that control their message to control the followers. Fortunately many are breaking free of their doctrinal bonds that are placed on them from the supporters of these human institutions.

    As for Trump, he’s the same sleaze he always was. The stakes are higher this time is the only difference. He is a good representation of what this nation is about. Looks are more important than character. Charm and march hold the same letters. Charm is witchery wit.

  172. If we get Trump or Bernie, we’re in for the same ride. I think it will derail before we get there. The fracturing is already occurring and has for quite some time. Shaking needs to happen to loose all the untruths. The cohesiveness of what was America is no longer a tangible substance. The melting pot has cooled and the flame is going out.

  173. At the least you should admit (though you likely won’t) the Muslims hold Jesus in a much higher light, as opposed to the other religion that killed Him. And as some of their followers still do.

    At least you should admit the founders of your supposed faith were all Jewish, without a Muslim in the bunch. And you should also admit you don’t know a Jew that would lop your grandchildren’s head off.

    And if you can’t see through that article you posted and how jaded the methodology of the determination, then you’re none too smart either.

  174. As I predicted, you won’t admit it. The Koran claims Jesus a prophet, while the Talmud claims he is son of a whore now eternally boiling in excrement. I’d say there is a bit of a contrast, wouldn’t you? ? ? But don’t take my word, why don’t you try praising Him at your favorite pajama news site? I think I know why that wouldn’t be anything you’d be willing to try. 😛

    As for the head lopping, I think we all have more to fear from our government than anything Islam can muster. Besides, most of these extremists when caught end up being quite kosher…

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/australian-is-jihadist-is-actually-an-jewish-american-troll-20150911-gjk852.html

    The truth is crazier than fiction.

    But then, what value are facts when one’s ideology can easily sweep them under a prayer rug?

  175. But don’t take my word, why don’t you try praising Him at your favorite pajama news site? I think I know why that wouldn’t be anything you’d be willing to try.

    As I said, you deflect and then change the subject. The Old Testament, those Jews you hate, was the Bible that Jesus taught, dummy. And I always remind myself of how insulting the Book of Isaiah is to Jesus. (cough cough)

    As for PJM, I am far more open about Jesus there than I am here and the reception far more receiving. Or would you like to make a little bet on that fact? It’s pretty easy to prove. A hundred bucks? 😛

    I won’t hold my breath.

  176. Frankly Poolman, if you haven’t noticed, I don’t bite anymore and I skip right on by your stupid screed unless I happen to see my name mentioned. You’re so transparent, a weak propagandist and vile, your not influencing opinion around here, or anywhere else for that matter, your kids included. Doesn’t say much for you as a man.

    But then you don’t see that either. 😈

  177. Actually it was you who deflected and changed the subject.

    Now you claim the founders of my faith are Jewish. That is where you always go, but it is not true. We’ve been over this territory before and you are still wrong. Abraham wasn’t Jewish. Neither was Noah. How about Adam or Seth? Not Jewish. No Jews until Jacob, and not even until he wrestled with God and was then given the name Israel. Then there is the whole tribe of Judah conflict…

    You really ought to review history. The first converts LEFT Judaism and the Jews persecuted them as heretics. Saul ring a bell? I guess your old wine skin pretty stiff and cracked. 😆 No new wine for you!

  178. I guess your old wine skin pretty stiff and cracked. 😆 No new wine for you!

    Your attempts at humor are as stale as your life, Poolman.

    Look, you want to hate Jews, be my guest. It’s completely antithetical to Holy Writ of which you understand very little, hiding behind the ‘Jesus’ talk. It makes you read like an utter buffoon like that Brother Nathaniel clown you posit.

    And to the fact, you’re utterly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, I’m not terribly worried about the opinions you hold. But your life is an unmitigated disaster, Poolman. You don’t hold sway.

  179. 😆 😆 😆 Now there’s the ol’ codger Tex I’ve come to know and love. :mrgreen:

    ✓ Can’t dispute those inconvenient facts… Toast the messenger!

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