A Huck Flix Review: Mad Max: Fury Road

What follows is a “relatively spoiler free” film review by long time friend and bar patron, Huck. Enjoy and tell us what you think, the bar is open.

I watched Mad Max: Fury Road a couple nights ago, and I am going to go ahead and say right up front—I  liked it. The story is set in the post-apocalyptic world of the Road Warrior, which fans of the franchise are long familiar with. In this story, however, gasoline is not the resource of contention—humans are. Max, now played by Tom Hardy, is captured by Immortan Joe’s War Boys and used as a “blood bank” so that one of them can maintain his “half-life”. At the same time, Imperator Furiosa, played by Charlize Theron, enacts a ruse to liberate Immortan Joe’s multiple breeders from their life of bondage. Joe and his War Boys, with Blood Banks in tow, give chase, and the hunt is on.

I have long liked, both, Tom Hardy and Charlize Theron. While I admit, Hardy has, in the past, had a tendency to somewhat overact on occasion, I think he is improving with time as he continues to develop his skill as an actor. Even at his worst, I have enjoyed his several films, and find myself continually going back and watching his past work that I haven’t yet seen. Theron, on the other hand, has proven time and again that she is a top-quality actress who can deliver the goods in whatever type of role she takes on, be it drama or action.

There has been a good bit of fan confusion as to whether Fury Road was a remake, a sequel, or a prequel. Writer/Director/Producer George Miller, however, claims the story is meant to take place very shortly after Beyond Thunderdome. “It’s not precise chronology, because I never intended for there to be, but after the last one. AfterThunderdome.” As Miller explains, this was the main reason Mel Gibson was not recast in the role that made him a star. “…this is not a ‘Mad Max’ in which he’s an old warrior. He’s meant to be that same contemporary warrior. I guess in the same way that James Bond had been played by various people, it was time to hand over the mantle.”

While Miller’s admission does clarify the timeline, the imprecise chronology is exposed in a variety of inconsistencies that are contrary his stated intent. For example, Furiosa and Max are quite visibly the same approximate age. Yet, near the end of the film, we learn that she was born after the apocalypse, while prior films clearly establish Max’s existence before it all took place.
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Another chronological flaw in the latest film is the re-emergence of Max’s famous Interceptor. The car featured heavily in the original Mad Max, and made an appearance at the beginning of its sequel. However, mid-way through The Road Warrior, the Interceptor met a fiery demise, and was not restored in Beyond Thunderdome. Yet, miraculously, the opening scene of Fury Road shows Max and the Interceptor, and the car makes other brief, yet noticeable appearances later in the film.
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Timeline inconsistencies like these may turn off the die-hard Mad Max traditionalists, but for those who just want to see another chapter in the Road Warrior saga, they shouldn’t be deal breakers. Some of them may not have even been noticed, and you can thank or curse me later for pointing them out.

Perhaps some of the loudest noise—and that is exactly what it is—regarding Mad Max: Fury Road came from feminists and those opposed to them. Many feminists, including Vagina Monologues author, Eve Ensler, saw the movie, with its powerful female lead and plotlines that involve combating female exploitation, as a leap forward in the action film genre. On the flip side, there was at least one call by “men’s rights activists” to boycott the film because of its “feminist propaganda”. Personally, I find both assertions to be off the mark. The Mad Max world has never shied away from portraying women as strong and capable, whether it was Virginia Hey as The Road Warrior’s Warrior Woman or Tina Turner as the ruler of Barter Town in Beyond Thunderdome. Charlize Theron as Imperator Furiosa simply adds to what has already been long established—in the dystopian world of the Road Warrior, anyone, man or woman, can be a victim or a victor.
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Ultimately, anyone looking for things to complain about in Mad Max: Fury Road will be presented with plenty of reason to do so. Frankly, that fact speaks more about our world of perpetual outrage than it does about the film. But if you are simply looking for 2 hours full of extreme action, outrageous vehicles, and death defying stunts, Mad Max: Fury Road delivers.

Run Time: 120 minutes
MPAA Rating: R
DVD/Blue Ray Release Date: Sept. 2015 (estimate)
Mad Max: Fury Road on IMDB

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591 thoughts on “A Huck Flix Review: Mad Max: Fury Road

  1. I have always hated sequels and franchise extensions and remakes. So where would this movie fit in that and why won’t I watch it?
    Quite frankly the original trilogy was destroyed with Thunderdome for me. Mad Max and The Road Warrior found their positives for me with the context in which they were offered. More pure in their Australian crafting and steeped in a plot that many at the time wondered/worried was able to come about.
    As a franchise I never felt the Mad Max movies were worthy of a forever telling.Unlike something like Batman,especially the Dark Knight series, where other villains and character evolution occurs,and the action is omnipresent I felt Mad Max was a story worthy of one and out. Not stretching out.
    I suppose given the time lapsed since the originals this movie allows for folks to simply go see an action film with heavy dystopian overtones and not really care about the previous films. I find that annoying and disrespectful.
    Given this I think you can imagine I won’t be watching the Ghostbusters Girls,Vacation and any number of films flowing out of the unoriginal minds of Hollywood etc.

  2. Horrible movie – nothing more than scene after scene of “action,” without a discernible plotline. As a diehard fan of “Mad Max,” it was a complete disappointment.

    As for the T&A doing things that no T&A can do, so what? The male lead did equally physics-defying feats. The real test of a fantasy movie is, “Can you suspend disbelief?” When you are chuckling – or laughing out loud – at the silliness of the most violent, action-packed parts of a movie, it’s not very good.

    A real groaner. Two thumbs down.

  3. The difference between this movie and your normal brainless action flick is that they didn’t feel the need to explain every detail to you.

    In a normal summer blockbuster, the blood transfusions that the War Boys were getting would be awkwardly explained in 3rd grade language. Conversations for the dumb audience’s benfit- Doesn’t happen in this movie.

    It’s a bad ass action sequence, but that’s all it was.

    I went back and watched the earlier ones.

    They really aren’t much different.

    The first one is actually hard to watch now. But had that B Movie weirdness to it the others didn’t. Really was more of a sort of horror flick, actually.

    All and all, Dead Rabbit liked the new one. But, he liked Water World as well.

    As far as any kind of coherence between the movies, I’m not sure the Mad Max franchise ever gave a crap. It’s just a world getting increasingly worse.

  4. I had no idea the new Mad Max movie was a politicised. It’s a car chase.

    LOL Rabbit, like the previous post, it’s just a change of pace. Lots of stuff gets discussed at the local watering hole besides politics. 😊

  5. For El Tigre:

    assassination – murder of a public figure by surprise attack

    Since murder is not always criminal, I’ll cede the point to you. But you won this one on a nitpick.

  6. “Lots of stuff gets discussed at the local watering hole besides politics.”

    He’s not talking about here, he’s talking about the feminist/ant-feminist thing I mentioned.

    “As far as any kind of coherence between the movies, I’m not sure the Mad Max franchise ever gave a crap.”

    I tended to agree with that until finding that the writer actually placed in in a timeline. Before learning that, I had assumed this one was simply a stand-alone story in a previously-created setting. Perhaps I misunderstood or over-thought his “after Thunderdome” comment.

    Thanks, everyone for the comments.

  7. I’m usually big on being “entertained”, but the Mad Max series was one that never could keep my attention – and I’m a fan of Mel Gibson. A few of the chase scenes in the first movie were entertaining in a ‘B’ Series sort of way. I assume that it has become a cult classic.

    These rehashed action series plots have become a little tedious in my estimation. I actually found myself continually looking at my watch during Jurassic Park, ready for it to be over with. And while I enjoyed the new Terminator, it was rescued by the dark humor of Awnold himself. The rest of the acting pretty much stunk.

    Like Alfie, I found Dark Knight pretty good – but based solely on Heath Ledger playing such a great psychopath.

    I’ve liked the Hunger Game movie series because it has stayed close to the book – the last one with Julie Moore was marginal. Her stench alone weakens the movie. But then, the last of the Hunger Games series could have been done in one movie in my estimation. I will hold my nose about Moore and pay full price to finish the Book Trilogy.

    The Marvel Comic series I wouldn’t pay discount to see anymore.

    Most movies these days remind me more of playing video games than they do good acting.

  8. A little off the subject, but I need to make a correction.

    I said the other day I thought I had watched really only two good movies the last 10 years in theaters that I could remember, both British: A King’s Speech and Philomena. But I forgot one based on a villain I thought really good too: No Country for Old Men.

    Javier Bardem was perhaps the best psychopath I’ve ever seen. And I either love Tommy Lee Jones movies, or I hate them. There is no in between. 🙂 This one I loved.

  9. “Since murder is not always criminal, I’ll cede the point to you. But you won this one on a nitpick.”

    Then I shall give back: there was debate about whether the “killing” ran counter to the U.S.’ self-imposed prohibition on assassinations or was a legitimate military action. So the term was important from a policy standpoint. Makes you wonder what made Clinton so willing to admit he had a chance to take Bin Laden out but supposedly chose not to because of the perceived collateral damage/harm.

    In any event, I still say the dictionary definition applies, especially when the guy that says he took Bin Laden out was pretty clear that they were there to kill him, Bin Laden knew it, and “died like a pussy.” There are plenty of media outlets that used the term in its regular sense too.

    Seriously though, does anyone other than Poolman think that we were going to take Bin Laden prisoner?

  10. The Tigre men lived the recent Mad Max. We weren’t there for a shakespearean screenplay. I can’t wait for the next.

  11. Tex – I thought Ahnold was really good. Didn’t try to steal the show, didn’t overact, and was really funny with that stupid made-up cyborg grin. The heroine, Emilia Clarke, said he was a joy to work with.

    Speaking of whom: that girl, with those pouty lips. Boy did they look tasty, even if she’s barely out of training bras. I guess 50 ain’t over the hill if a sweetie like that can still get your attention. Having said that, though, I DO adhere to what my partner told me: when you reach 40, there are two things you never pass up: an erection and a urinal.

  12. Seriously though, does anyone other than Poolman think that we were going to take Bin Laden prisoner?

    Pools doesn’t believe he’s dead. Or I should say Pools thinks he died long before the “mission”.

  13. when you reach 40, there are two things you never pass up: an erection and a urinal

    Here in the states, Dundee, we’ve got a commercial for Cialis that sends such a bizarre mixed message I don’t know what to make of it. It cures ED AND makes you pee less often. I don’t know if the guy in the pool wants to have sex right then and there in the pool or whether he just doesn’t wanna pee in the pool.

  14. Having said that, though, I DO adhere to what my partner told me: when you reach 40, there are two things you never pass up: an erection and a urinal.

    LOL. I would agree with those sentiments, except its been my experience it’s a lot easier to find a urinal these days. In the Awnold movie, I had to pee half way through the movie after drinking a massive Icee. I waited. And the end of hour, I gritted my teeth, duck walked to the restroom, and found I had to pee so bad, I couldn’t. 😈 I don’t what the crowd waiting behind me must have thought but I was starting to here some grumbling.

  15. R – When Viagra came out, I talked to a machinist friend who was taking it for a test drive. It was SO funny … he said, “Yeah, Old Woman (That’s what he called his wife, although they were in their ‘forties.) just loves it, and so do I. I can just lay back and she climbs on and rides all night and I don’t have to do a damn thing.” I didn’t know what to say. I just nodded and chuckled.

  16. No Country for Old Men is a must.

    As I remember, its one of the few movies where the gun fight feels real. Loud. Super loud. And not over played.

    I put it right there with There Will Be Blood.

  17. Huck, No Country for Old men out on YouTube for Free – about every 15 minutes, you’ve got to skip the commercials, but that’s only 4-5 seconds of interruption. I’ve got a 23 inch screen I’m watching on because it’s easier to skip the addies on the PC than on my DVD. The quality is not bad – livable.

  18. Well Tex I have more ammo for your claim that I need to see a neurologist. I have film-amnesia. I’ve seen loads of films but I’ll be damned if I can remember them fully. Typical dialog between me and my better half:

    “You’ve seen [fill in the blank] right?
    Me: “Part of it.”

    Now I’ve seen No Country once but I can only recall a couple of scenes. This is typical of me.

  19. Seriously though, does anyone other than Poolman think that we were going to take Bin Laden prisoner?

    No reason. The real bin Laden died of natural causes in December 01. The fake bin Laden needed to be taken out like the bulk of the team was that did the deed. They all knew too much. Dead men tell no tales.

  20. Oh, I finally got on, Tigre. And what do I see. Glad handing with the Munchkin Senator, Babs Mikulski. And if you don’t kill it, it replays ad infinitum.

    I would rather watch and listen to two dogs >>>>

  21. The deal with Iran sounds like piece of shit.

    So Tigre it gives me pleasure to ask you the kind of question you always ask me.

    You read all 80 pages of the deal?

  22. As I have said before, this whole Iran thing is absurd. On the one hand who the hell are we, the most heavily nuclear armed country in the world, to dictate ANYONE’s military defense strategy?

    On the other hand, if Iran is indeed the worst state sponsor of terrorism and aggression why is ANYONE talking with them before they clean up their act?

    The whole damn thing makes no sense.

  23. I would rather watch and listen to two dogs >>>> Tex

    The real fun will be tonight around 9:00 EDT when the first transmissions reach us. That’s when we’ll know if Marvin the Plutonian took out our little explorer with some dirty snowballs.

    Until that signal reaches NASA and JH, their will be a lot of hand wringing and pocket protector shining. Nervous nerds are fascinating to watch.

  24. Thor Pluto is not a planet. Get hip maaaan -R

    It could get reinstated. The new data shows its bigger than we thought, and it has a most endearing heart tattoo on it’s butt. It’s even on the Google machine tab today.

    Speaking of Heart, going to see these two ladies tomorrow night. Hope they can still “Sing Child Sing”.

    They can do the soft touch too.

  25. One thing I can’t understand about this Pluto trip. Wonder why 7,800 miles. Why not 78 miles? 🙂

    Maybe there’s some gravitational constraints, like being sucked into the vortex of Marvin the Plutonian. I wonder if there is like some “fudge factor” built in, like an approximate range of distance. I mean that’s a long ways away, so even several thousand miles is amazingly accurate. But I was wondering today when they make those initial calculations, are there approximations in their calculations, can they control the speed of the projection, do they have to lead the planet, because they sure aren’t going to be catching up to it, etc…

    It would be interesting on the details of just how much control they really have at these unbelievable distances.

  26. “This is a bad deal for America, a bad deal for Iran’s neighbors in the Middle East, and a bad deal for the world,” he confirmed. “…This is a bet based on hope over experience that we’ve had with Iran.”

    Lieberman said the inspections regime is “dangerously short of the anywhere, anytime access that is needed.”

    He said the process of requesting an inspection and sending it to the arbitration panel, which includes Iran, can go on for at least two weeks of negotiation, then is subject to an appeal process to a higher board. Essentially, the IAEA “will have to negotiate to gain access for its inspectors.”

    Lieberman said he’s concluded the agreement “falls far short of what’s needed.” ~ Joe Lieberman

    Apparently, Obama and the Rutherford types are the only ones thinking this is a good deal with Iran. Figures. The fact Rutherford is sure he is bulletproof is proof enough weren’t not dealing with someone playing with a full deck.

  27. “You read all 80 pages of the deal?”

    No. It was just released. That’s why I said “sounds.” See how that works?

    Since we’re reversing roles, is it safe to assume that you have? 🙄

    Kidding. You ain’t a reader. Just a reporter of whatever Obama-worshipping MSNBC says.

    So, you obviously endorse the deal. Tell us all why. Seems to me at the barest levels, the so-called “snap inspections” are unreliable bullshit agreed to by proven liars and cheats. Hell, I understand that any request for inspection must be made in writing 14 days in advance and a response to the demand by Iran. What’s that all about?

    Of course I didn’t read it so perhaps that doesn’t exist.

    Obama says he “encourages a vigorous debate in congress” but said at the same time he will “veto” any effort to quash the deal.

  28. “Bibi hates the deal. What a surprise!”

    An assured nuclear Iran. Geee, hard to understand why Israel doesn’t think it’s Jim Dandy.

    Oh yea. “Not fair.” I forgot. 🙄

  29. “On the one hand who the hell are we, the most heavily nuclear armed country in the world, to dictate ANYONE’s military defense strategy?” -R

    You answered your own damn question. Because we are the most heavily nuclear armed country in the world.

    Really disgusts me how you relish Machiavellian politics domestically, amorally giggling with pleasure no matter how the sausage was made. Hate the game, not the player, you say. That’s life. Ego and power is the name of the game. Get over it. Legacy.

    But, in a complete 180, you all of sudden abhor foriegn policy when our nation and it’s people are the first priority. Iran has the same rights to a nuke as America. What makes us so different, you ask. Nations are all equal but Americans are more equal then others.

  30. “Negotiators failed to meet the standard of achieving “anytime, anywhere” access that several members of the United States Congress had demanded as a part of any nuclear deal. Instead, in the event Iran objects to an IAEA request for access to a specific site, a “clock” will begin that grants the two sides 14 days to negotiate.
    If that period expires without any resolution reached directly between Iran and the IAEA, the Joint Commission would have seven days to advise them on a way forward. Iran would then have three days to comply with the commission’s final advice, bringing the total time on the clock to 24 days.”

    Nice.

  31. “My Work Here is Done” – perfect

    re: Nuclear Iran. The damned fool doesn’t understand that he has forced Israel’s hand. Now there is hell to pay. And – I’ll guaran-damned-tee you that there are more supporters of Israel in US than there are Obama supporters. What a complete and total loser.

    Tex, Poolman – I’m reading Eric Hoffer’s “True Believer.” This is the little book that Eisenhower is said to have given to all his staff. Just getting started, but in the forward it says, “Fanatical mass movements, although anathema to critical spirits, are often the necessary means of arousing and reforming stagnant societies.”

    Hell, maybe US needs a huge spiritual movement. Needs SOMETHING, for sure.

  32. I don’t know what to think of the Iranian deal.

    If the negotiators and administration look at the world like Rutherford does, were probably screwed.

    But, as for the nuts and bolts of the deal, I have no clue.

  33. Apparently, Obama and the Rutherford types are the only ones thinking this is a good deal with Iran.

    Mmm could you find the quote where I said it was a good deal?

    I’ve already stated there are two good reasons why there should be no deal. 1) Their nuclear ambitions are none of our goddam business and 2) if they simply can’t be trusted, then we shouldn’t be “dealing”.

  34. First @ Thor I hope you won thos tickets as opposed to spent $$ on them 😀
    I am unmoved by the P5+1 deal. The USA was the only party interested in pursuing what can only be called a failed sanctions effort. Although Iran is the biggest winner the West can only achieve its goals by moving forward.

  35. Saw Heart way back in the late ’80s.

    On a related note, I got my tickets for Motorhead and Saxon AND Lamb of God and Slipknot, both shows next month.

    It’s going to be a rockin’ August! \m/

  36. “Their nuclear ambitions are none of our goddam business.”

    WTF??

    Every country’s nuclear ambitions are our business.

  37. “Their nuclear ambitions are none of our goddam business”

    Amazing, isn’t? That’s how clueless he is.

  38. Yup DR I think you named the only other 3. 😊

    I saw a doc on HBO a few months ago where Foo Fighters travelled across the country and documented local trends. For the most part, prior to grunge, the prevailing vibe in Seattle was get the hell out if you want to be successful. Too geographically remote for even Californians to flock to their music scene.

    Jimi went to England and Heart went elsewhere.

    You are right though that grunge put Seattle on the map.

  39. “Amazing, isn’t? That’s how clueless he is.”

    Yep. From a guy that’d probably tell you another country’s carbon emissions are our business.

  40. Clueless? Who’s inspecting our shit on a minute’s notice? No one – cos we would NEVER agree to it.

    And you know what? Going back maybe a decade, our nuclear energy (not military) infrastructure had holes in it. We should have third parties coming in to monitor our shit.

    One of the sad traits of the Republican is nationalism to the point of not even knowing if your own shit stinks.

    If I were Prez of Iran, I’d say “pile on your sanctions. We are a sovereign nation and we will do what is in our best interest. Oh and by the way, when U.S. AND ISRAEL disarm they can talk to us about our nuclear ambitions.”

    Boys and girls Oppenheimer unleashed a shitstorm. It’s not a matter of if we will blow everything up. It’s a matter of when.

    I’m SHOCKED it hasn’t happened already.

  41. Not familiar with all of them Tigre but are most considered Grunge?

    Rather than get in a lengthy debate I’ll concede Seattle has produced more successes than I gave it credit for.

  42. Yeah. Nationalism gone amok. Toby Keith style. I think Iran getting a nuke is serious stuff and “our business”. U-S-A! U-S-A!

  43. “Clueless? Who’s inspecting our shit on a minute’s notice? No one – cos we would NEVER agree to it.”

    Too retarded for words.

    If Iran or any other country wants to take that position, let ’em. It doesn’t mean we don;t make it our business. You know why? Because. That’s why.

    Fuck. Pajamaboy says “it just ain’t fair. . . “

  44. “Rather than get in a lengthy debate I’ll concede Seattle has produced more successes than I gave it credit for.”

    Uh. . . yes you will. Sir Mix Alot?

    End of debate.

  45. Fleet Foxes. Modest Mouse. Bing Crosby.

    Der Bingle – Seattle??? Sorry Rabbit no one thinks of Seattle when they think of Bing Crosby.

    And who the fuck are Fleet Foxes and Modest Mouse? That’s “success” coming out of Seattle? Never heard of them. Bet you hadn’t either … some good Googling.

  46. The Presidents of the United States of America

    One hit wonder and that’s charitable.

    Sir Mix-a-Lot

    That surprises me.

    Again, Google is your friend.

    BTW did Sir Mix-a-Lot come out of the Seattle music scene or was he just born there?

    See my comment on Foo Fighters documentary and the pre-grunge trend. I stand by it.

  47. “Never heard of them. Bet you hadn’t either … some good Googling.”

    Things they do look awful c- c-c-cold (Talkin’ ’bout my generation)
    Yeah, I hope I die before I g g g g get old (Talkin’ ’bout my generation)

  48. You never heard of Modest Mouse. I can’t really have a discussion about music with you as two contemporaries.

  49. Fleet Foxes and Modest Mouse are pretty fucking big,

    Ok now we’re sorting out the generations.

    Tex, be honest. You ever heard of these? No comment from James whose taste is disturbingly eclectic.

  50. Things they do look awful c- c-c-cold (Talkin’ ’bout my generation)
    Yeah, I hope I die before I g g g g get old (Talkin’ ’bout my generation)

    😂😂😂😂

  51. I can’t really have a discussion about music with you as two contemporaries.

    You’re barely 40 right? We are definitely not music contemporaries. The only “Mouse” I vaguely remember is Danger Mouse from some duo or group — gotta look it up — Gnarls Barkley.

  52. One hit wonder? WTF you talking ’bout Willis?

    Naked and Famous
    Lump
    Kitty
    Peaches
    Video Killed The Radio Star

    You a “Fanilo?”

  53. This is classic stupidity of all cultures, religions and ideologies one and the same. You’re not dealing with a rational player here. Supreme Leader Rutherfordnei…

  54. I honestly think doing a stint in the servicef kicks you back a little, generationally speaking. At the age of 22, 17 year olds are your contemporaries.

    Also, working in public schools makes me a little more atune to new shit.

    Don’t get me wrong, there is nothing worse then a 40 year old who thinks he’s 22.

    So, I hope that’s not the picture I’m painitng. I’d let ISIS cut my head off before I’d put skinny jeans on.

    OK. I lied. Do you think skinny jeans come in a size 38 waist?

  55. “Don’t get me wrong, there is nothing worse then a 40 year old who thinks he’s 22.”

    Yeah there is. A guy that’s 55 that thinks he’s 85.

    New shit is still just new shit. You don’t have to be the creepy old guy at the concert.

  56. I don’t know why I find it so funny but the song was about peaches. Literally. Peaches. The singer was sitting under a peach tree waiting for his girlfriend to come home eating the shit out of peaches when he came up with the song.

  57. I seriously shudder to think of Rutherford’s music collection.
    Bette Midler?

    Close. Barry Manilow – but that’s my wife’s fault.

    I’m in a real quandary about music lately. The few times I buy a CD, I rip it and keep the original as backup. Afraid to buy anything pure digital for fear of losing it.

    Got my last couple of “albums” (yes that dates me) via Amazon Prime Music and Spotify.

    I haven’t invested time in a new artist in ages. The artists for whom I have almost complete collections are the Stones, CCR, REM, Green Day and the Cars.

  58. Mad love for No Country For Old Men. “Oh, hell’s bells, they even shot the dog.”

    I like guy movies and chick music. I have a cleaning the house mix with stuff like this on it –

  59. Pandora and the like make it easy to hear today’s music scene. You only need to listen for an hour or so a week and you’ll hear the good stuff.

    I ran into a former work friend and he asked me what I missed most about the place (we all got laid off in 2012) and I told him “Listening to music and looking out the window.” It was an honest answer.

  60. “Close. Barry Manilow – but that’s my wife’s fault.”

    I win. I knew you were a damn Fanilow. It’s like pre-chewed food. I could just tell.

  61. When has Iran shown itself to be an irrational actor? Just because we don’t see the rationale of an action, that doesn’t mean there wasn’t some cost-benefit analysis that went on. Iran plays a longer game than we do. It can do that because it doesn’t have regime change every 4-8 years.

    None of that is saying I think this is a good deal, because I’m not. I tend to go with Alfie on this one. This was an inevitability. Which makes getting to this point seem pretty—rational—to me.

    I’m going to go ahead and take that as a compliment, Muffy, and say “thank you”.

  62. I think Parker nailed it. At least the important part. Obama is two men: There’s the malignant narcissist, bully and thug when there is no personal threat and he can hide behind his race and his media. That’s U.S. policy.

    But the other part is Obama is also a rank coward when the playing field is level. Iran is not beholden to a bunch of dumbshit bums, mooches and academia, cheerleading by the media. The truth is, the Left is scared shitless of terrorists. The American military recognizes this as well. This is leading from behind – Obama is a clueless dolt, frozen with fear when it comes to foreign policy. Every rolls Obama outside the borders of America. The man is a pussy.

    Obama left the dirty work up to Israel. Probably at least in part because Obama is a petty POS thinking he’s sticking it to Netanyahu, and part because he has no clue how to proceed and is impotent.

  63. Muffy, since I’ve griped about it a lot, how did you feel about your layoff? Maybe I wasn’t paying attention but I don’t recall reading before that you had been laid off once.

    Honest question: any tips on finding a new job? I’m always open to ideas.

  64. Obama left the dirty work up to Israel.

    And what dirty work is Israel willing to do regarding Iran? Seems to me their aggression is limited to their back yard. Anything further away, they just whine. What would the international community do if Bibi protected his nation and preemptively wiped out Iran’s nuclear capability? If they have a righteous gripe, they should just do it. They don’t ask for our permission or assistance when they slaughter Palestinians.

    Bibi should just sing that golden oldie by John McCain.

  65. I have no interest in reading one page much less 80 pages of this deal but unfortunately it’s the only way to know what’s really going on.

    Case in point: pro-deal rhetoric says no sanctions will be lifted until Iran meets certain milestones. Anti-deal rhetoric says Iran gets sanctions lifted without doing squat.

    Someone is lying. The shame is we can’t trust folks to digest this for us and tell us the truth. So if we care, we have to read the original text ourselves.

    Putting my laziness aside, there should be reliable sources who can tell us the truth about what’s in the deal and there aren’t. That’s a damn shame IMO.

  66. Even reading the deal means nothing. If Iran isn’t going to follow it, then who cares what’s on the deal.

    I have no trust in Obama. None. They’ve lied so many times about foriegn policy, some of them insulting whoppers. I also don’t trust Iran.

    I’m clueless.

  67. Leather yes. As you can imagine I can’t speak to gun holsters but it certainly supports an iPhone holster. 😂😂😂

    Seriously, it easily fits through the average loops of adult pants. Very well made and the hole-less technology and guaranteed fit are near genius.

    I wanted to buy the two belt, 3 buckle combo but my wife put a lock on my wallet so I just bought the one belt and gold buckle.

  68. Is that thing on your bathroom floor?

    Are you dropping a deuce?

    What the hell is going on in the Lawson household? That thing needs to be taken out and shot.

  69. That’s a bath mat?

    Wash that damn thing.

    Then take it and burn it.

    And bury it.

    And move to another state.

    Yuuck.

  70. The BEST thing about this Pope is how he puts religiosity to the test. Isn’t it Catholic doctrine that the Pope is God’s messenger on Earth? Wake up call: God is a leftist!!!

    Who woulda thunk it? Clearly any Pope I liked would be a disappointment to Tex.

  71. A few more I don’t believe were mentioned –
    Candlebox
    Mother Love Bone (hand in hand with the Temple of the Dog reference)
    Queensryche
    Robert Cray (he’s from Tacoma but so was Bing)
    Rabbit Junk (just for you, DR)
    And for the old farts … the Kingsmen, Paul Revere and the Raiders and Kenny G.

    But the Mouse? They aren’t just from the Seattle area, they’re from Issaquah, my home town!

    @Alfie – Can’t buy these tickets. Got ’em from a business connection. They throw this party once a year for about 750 of their closest friends. Food and booze too. The guy has his own band. They open and then he usually pulls in someone from just above the casino circuit to headline. Doobie Brothers, Pat Benatar, Styx have all been there in the past. It’s a blast.

  72. Tex, I’m sure they built in room for error, if it even can be called that after 3 billion miles.
    The odometer reads like this: 3,000,000,000.00 That’s a lot of oil changes. Plus it takes three hours to message each way, so realistically, New Horizons has to drive itself. But it’s all working out and tomorrow’s images should be spectacular.

  73. Obama says he “encourages a vigorous debate in congress” but said at the same time he will “veto” any effort to quash the deal. -ET

    How do you veto a “no” vote?

    Fast track this, bitch!

    Any deal with Iran isn’t worth the hostage blindfold it was written on. But I’m still more worried about Pakistan. There are some real “wild west” regions in that country. If a nuke goes missing there, we (or perhaps India) could have hell to pay. Talk about your Thug Karma.

  74. Isn’t it Catholic doctrine that the Pope is God’s messenger on Earth? Wake up call: God is a leftist!!! Who woulda thunk it?

    Normally, your attempts at religious talk are obnoxious and offensive – as was this weak attempt. I’m sure The Creator was pleased He is identified being ‘Left’ as His named booed at the Democratic Convention in 2012.

    In this case, it’s apropos.

    I assume you are aware that there is something we Christians call ‘The Holy Trinity?’

    Are you aware Christians also believe in those last days, there is also something called loosely ‘The unholy trinity?’ Are you aware that many Christians believe the references of the seven hills of the false prophet is clearly in reference to Rome?

    You know, contrary to say Islam or even Judaism for the most part, Christians believe those posing as Christian, and I can’t imagine who I am thinking of at this moment as small example, play a large role in setting the stage for Armageddon – so much so, that we are warned of false prophets acting as agents for Christ, even claiming to speak for Christ?

    Now I’m no prophet with dire warnings of The Revelation. But I do find it frighteningly ironic with the rise of Persia being only one of a multitude of examples, that both Judaism and Christian epistemology reads suspiciously coincidental to the last book of Holy Writ at this moment.

    Just a thought, as I am sure in your confidence you believe like Jesus, this is just a myth anyway. But I don’t think even you can deny it “feels” that the whole world quite unsettled, with the first time in man’s history to ability to make war and annihilate the human race.

  75. Jews claim God is unknowable whereas Christians claim a personal relationship with God. The Catholics are somewhere in between. The pope is supposedly God’s main man on the planet at any given time, per the Catholic doctrine. They believe you need a mediator to talk with God, which isn’t the way the NT describes the relationship. The priests are those middlemen and they have men over them and men over them, etc. Eventually you rise to the pope and only God is above him. If you are looking to the pope to discover the character of the Almighty, you are not going to find it. God is neither left or right, masculine or feminine, black or white, single or multiple. He is both/all/none.

  76. ”Muffy, since I’ve griped about it a lot, how did you feel about your layoff? Maybe I wasn’t paying attention but I don’t recall reading before that you had been laid off once.

    Honest question: any tips on finding a new job? I’m always open to ideas.”

    I didn’t think about it much. I chalked it up to experience and moved on, and I can honestly say that three years later I’ve never been happier or had a healthier attitude about money and time.

    So for you I have less of a tip than a hard core idea – teach adults to read.

    Math and science tutors are also in demand. Contracting for a company like Sylvan will give you experience but you’ll find them as frustrating as any “company,” and it’s better to work for yourself anyway (so you won’t spend your days thinking you know and can do better.)

    Set a goal to work for yourself either right away or eventually. Tutoring can pay well if you’re good and can help kids bring their grades up. You’ll work evenings and weekends though (obviously) but your days will be free-ish.

    Consider being a tutor for kids who are hospitalized for long term treatment.

    PS…You never know what can happen along the way either. Some unforeseen fortunate turn on the road to becoming a self-employed professional tutor for young people who need what you can offer them.

    PPS…The bonuses are such that you won’t be able to measure the degree of satisfaction you’ll feel being part of a kid’s decision to stay in school, if you find yourself working with high schoolers.

  77. Candlebox was omitted on purpose. Awful. That later grunge shit sucked.

    Queensryche is like a lesser Rush. I’ll never understand the fandom.

  78. Those rooms that Tigre and Tex posted were replicas of the double wide I bought.

    I was prepared to pay a grand for a top notch clean up. I payed an old man 75 bucks and doubled it when I saw his perfect work, still feeling guilty as he thanked me profusely.

  79. Rutherford – I think you might find this interesting:

    http://www.livescience.com/51450-driving-on-marijuana-alcohol-dangerous.html?li_source=pm&li_medium=more-from-livescience&li_campaign=related_test

    It appears that, far from stoners’ being MORE dangerous on the road, they are not only less dangerous than drunks, they may be less dangerous than straight drivers, with the fatal accident rate’s actually going down after legalization.

    It’s something that people who’ve toked and driven have suspected for a long time: being even a little high makes you more cautious; you follow further back and drive slower. You are focussed lazer-like on the task at hand.

    Thoughts?

  80. Rutherford could sub in a high school, too. Kids are almost better when the sub as a physical disability. Pretty amazing. We had a dwarf with other obvious medical conditions. Without being mean, it was as if he was pulled out of some Dungeon and Dragons game. Dude was ecentric as hell too.

    Class was always cool to him.

    I’m not comparing Rutherford to an ecentric mythological creature. Well, I kind of just did. And have before.

  81. I think it’s possible experienced weed smokers aren’t horrible drivers.

    One thing that the pro weed crowd overlooks is how powerful marijuana is when you first start. Shit is like acid.

    It’s hard to classify marijuana becuase its so different depending on the person.

    Relaxes one person.

    You absolutely trip your balls off.

    It’s a drug that morphs over time with use.

    Look at the disaster that edibles can be.

    You can eat a brownie and trip balls.

    My brother ate one two hours before his wife unexpectedly went into labor. He said it was a nightmare of the highest caliber.

    500 times stronger then he thought. This is coming from a guy who could eat endless amounts of magic mushrooms when we were Teenagers.

    Another problem with weed is the effects it has on young minds. Early research is pretty concerning (although it looks like alcohol can have a lasting effect, as well.)

  82. We are so intelligent because our nasty dispositions weeded out the dumb ones and at least a couple of competing cousin species.

    Modern technology of course turns assets into debits.

    Scientists have found the Cascadal subjection zone. Through combined Japanese records, physical remains and Indian legends they have determined that the Pacific Northwest is due for an earth quake bigger than the so called big one expected near LA.

    One seismologist who was attending a meeting in Japan as the big one occoured there said this could be the biggest earth North American earth quake experienced in hundreds of years.

    He said if warning tremors begin don’t wait to help others, just get the heck out. Seattle will be a very bad place to be he said. Anyone west of I 5 needs a will.

    I am on vacation from reading or discussing current events. The leaving fits the earth quack scare should it happen.

  83. Rabbit’s right. It’s just inspirational to be reminded that every day people overcome obstacles with things that the rest take for granted. Kids get that I think.

  84. “I payed an old man 75 bucks and doubled it when I saw his perfect work, still feeling guilty as he thanked me profusely.”

    I’ll triple that if you can get him to the Lawson household. Homey’s place is in need of deep cleaning. . .

    and someone to get rid of that filthy “bearskin” rug.

  85. Parker, that Oppenheimer clip, which I have seen many times before, has to be one of the most sobering commentaries a man ever uttered.

    I have an internet friend – we took a liking to each other about a decade ago. Daniel is Jewish and obviously, I am not. But we thought much alike, came to the same conclusions about politic, life and death. I gathered Daniel was somewhat envious of my stature of extended family. And I was most definitely envious of his personal talents; truly, one of the smartest people I have ever read.

    Having said that, Daniel is well above my pay grade. While I come from simple country folk, Daniel’s father actually shared the patent for isolation of deuterium or something to that regard. Obviously, Daniel is older than I am, comes from much higher quality stock, his father one of the principals of the atomic age. We started a pen pal relationship of sorts for a time.

    Daniel shared a few of those sobering stories of those brilliant men that brought us the atomic age. It was an eye opener to say the least. It was amazing how many of those men were days from being victims of the Holocaust.

    These guys knew that first minute of the first bomb exploding, earth would never be the same. And Daniel told me it haunted his own father until his dying day.

  86. Tex just so I’m not misunderstanding, are you calling the Pope a false prophet?

    Oh no. I would never go that far to pass judgement of that kind unless I was absolutely sure. I may never get the chance.

    I do think this current Pope is milquetoast and a dupe of sorts at the most inopportune time in history. Even as Protestant who doesn’t view the Pope with any particular form of spiritual authority, I nonetheless cede that Christiandom has no larger, louder voice to carry the message of church leadership and doctrine.

    And until now, I have always carried the utmost respect for the man who carried the title, John Paul for instance being my equivalent of a Billy Graham; a definite church leader and father of the flock.

    What I am saying is that there is no doubt in my mind from a Christian epistemological perspective like mine, there will come a day that a man will arise with a gift to sway masses, who will pose himself as a man of peace and spiritual authority, with a message that sounds for a time eerily like somebody of great theological wisdom. And I suspect he will use the name ‘Christian.’

    And he will be anything but.

    I purposely am keeping this at a high level to neither to offend or proselytize.

  87. Now I know why I like Muffy. She’s doing exactly what my own mother is doing – teaching adults to read. “Shaheen” is her current student. An educated Iranian woman who is struggling with the English language.

    I guess my mother has become a mentor to Shaheen of sorts. I hope I am spelling her name correctly,by the way.

  88. I saw someplace yesterday that Harper Lee’s new book was analogous to the author of ET writing a second version that ET had come back to earth, punched Elliot in the mouth, and stolen his lunch money. 😆 😆 😆

  89. I don’t teach adults to read Tex. Close, but not close enough to let you keep thinking it. That was the original intent behind my efforts though.

    And the idea I wished to give Rutherford was indeed to teach adults to read or to help kids struggling with their math homework.

  90. Yeah, that sounds about right, Tex. I understand the work changes our understanding of Atticus. I’ve heard now two very unexpected plot events contained in the book and one was so acutely disappointing that I was all the more intrigued.

  91. there will come a day that a man will arise with a gift to sway masses, who will pose himself as a man of peace and spiritual authority, with a message that sounds for a time eerily like somebody of great theological wisdom. And I suspect he will use the name ‘Christian.’
    And he will be anything but.

    Oh, ok. Not the Pope. Clearly you’re referring to Obama. 😂😂😂😂

  92. How do folks here feel about the possibility that Lee may not be cogent enough to consent to this publication of her first draft?

    The alternative version of Atticus as a bigot has become controversial already and upset many fans of “To Kill a Mockingbird”.

    I tend to be a “leave well enough alone” type but I understand why fans of Lee are eager to read this.

  93. Hell no he won’t. Rolling up his sleeves and walking among the masses ain’t his thing. He’d rather throw other people’s money at them from afar. Makes his guilt go away. Which is funny, becuase it ain’t even his money!

  94. Supreme Stink Beard of Iran punked Obama pretty bad on Twitter and, in my opinion, pretty much told the world Iran will do what it wants.

  95. Honestly, while Muffy’s suggestion is good I have to figure where to go with it.

    I’ve seen online tutoring opportunities and that’s probably what I would gravitate to. Not sure I know enough about anything to be tutoring anyone but that’s my neuroses talking.

    The sub idea is interesting Rabbit but I can’t stand through a 45 minute class and the damn trach would make it hard to project to the back of the classroom. It would be a nightmare. Besides, subs need to have a teaching certificate and I’m not shelling out the money to earn one.

    Don’t get me wrong. Muffy gave good food for thought and I may consider a variation on her theme.

    My thrice weekly exercise class is at the local hospital and I’ve started thinking about working with kids there cos hospitals suck. But that would most likely be volunteer and I need to be bringing in Benjamins.

  96. “I can’t stand through a 45 minute class”

    You don’t have to. You stand when you want to and only then.

    “and the damn trach would make it hard to project to the back of the classroom.”

    They have microphone sets. Or, just tell the class about your trach and how you need them to shut the fuck up when you talk. Only take highschool jobs.

    ” Besides, subs need to have a teaching certificate and I’m not shelling out the money to earn one.”

    Completely false. Ha ha, are just making shit up? By all means, just tell the Rabbit to get fucked and you don’t want to be a sub. I wouldn’t blame anyone for saying that. I think it might be rewarding for you, though.

    Have you ever left a comfort zone?

    You always nag on Tex to go find work. I think it is you that needs to find society. It sucks, don’t get me wrong. But might be perfect for a guy like you. Work when you want to work. Plus, I think you’d be great example for the kids.

    http://www.isbe.net/licensure/html/substitute.htm

  97. R, I’ve been suggesting that you go tutor for a long time. Your excuses suck. And I know it ain’t like you’re too busy with housekeeping. Just do it.

  98. Oh, ok. Not the Pope. Clearly you’re referring to Obama.

    Nah, impossible. Obama is too stupid to fool the globe – only the American sheep like you. But even you have admitted Obama’s “religion” spurious to say the least. Face it, R. Obama just got rolled again. The entire world practically spits in his face, while Obama too stupid to recognize he does the bidding for evil.

  99. A bad Apple month. First we replace the iPhone and today the iPod dies.

    At least I’m pretty sure of the problem. Unchargable battery. So I will either get battery replaced, get iPod replaced or just say fuck it.

  100. “A bad Apple month. First we replace the iPhone and today the iPod dies.”

    How about replacing that bath mat?

    (okay, okay, I’m done. That’s what you get for sharing pictures).

  101. Well, well, well. . . Arabs and Israelis united against Obama and the Iran deal.

    United.

    Obama the Uniter. 😆

  102. Rutherford, I’d like to know from you what you think we got from the Iran deal. What’s our long term benefit from this? I’m struggling to see it. If it’s just “delay,” what’s the huge advantage? Why is Iranian hegemony in the middle east a good thing?

    Enquiring minds want to know what Rutherford thinks.

    Oh, and. . . death to America.

    (I’m going to start saying that like half-assed “Heil Hitlers” in Hogans Heroes)

  103. How about replacing that bath mat?

    My wife thought the “shoot it, bury it and leave the state” comment was hilarious.

    All I can say is consider my photos documentation of the working poor.

  104. One of the things I think helps in the job hunt is to volunteer in your chosen field. Rutherford I gathered you are a webinar programer. That would be a good area to teach to senior citizens. Two friends had retired and one volunteered at the local museum and was eventually offered a job. The other learned Spanish online and taught English to immigrants. In these examples neither had to stand for any length of time and since groups were small did not have to project their voice.

    I recently read that a well know lecturer used a quiet voice and students ended up having to be quiet so they could hear him.First thing I would do is check out volunteer and/or job offers through AARP.
    Hospitals would be a wonderful place to volunteer for two reasons: the kids need to see disability at work and you would have the medical facility in case you have any problems.

  105. Finally something I can comment on since I don’t watch TV and have no clue who those musical groups are if you can call it music 😉

    Muffy, I am going to read Go Set A Watchman. I read the first chapter at the Guardian. However I am first going to go back and read To Kill A Mockingbird again.

    What I love love love is a book being discussed in the MSM. Great stuff on the radio. There is hope for literacy.

  106. ”R, I’ve been suggesting that you go tutor for a long time.”

    ” I’ve seen online tutoring opportunities and that’s probably what I would gravitate to.”

    “To put all this in context I think I already told you guys that my current part time job ends with a layoff sometime in Sept/Oct.”

    Let’s just start signing Rutherford up for stuff. Haha.

    “What do you mean I’m scheduled for a presentation for an adjunct position at UIC on Friday?” -R

    That link Rabbit posted was really great. You shouldn’t rule anything out before reading more about it, R. It matters little where and how you start out, actually. You’ll probably wind up doing something you never planned anyway. That’s what happened to me – I went to an informational at a university here in Chicago with the idea that I would try and somehow start teaching adult literacy or computer literacy for geezers.

    FF to 3 years later and contrary to whatever specifics I had begun cooking up – I’m working now, actively helping young people stay and finish school one student at a time, making decent money (not even a third of what I made before but it is enough.) And I’m happy.

    All because I started thinking less about needing to make a living and more about needing to make a difference. You know me well enough at least I hope to know that I’m not oblivious to certain realities you face as head of a household and disabled to boot. Even so, you have a right to be happy.

    For all anyone knows you could wind up 3 years from now with an adjunct position as an online instructor at UIC teaching project management twice a week. Did you know UIC has a degree program in Project Management, R? Imagine going on campus one day and standing where President Obama stood and lectured. You could take a selfie and post it here.

    ”My thrice weekly exercise class is at the local hospital and I’ve started thinking about working with kids there cos hospitals suck. But that would most likely be volunteer and I need to be bringing in Benjamins.”

    Do it. Make a call. It cannot hurt.

    https://instaedu.com/tutors/become-a-tutor/

    Contact a Sylvan Learning Center near you to ask about Sylvan Learning career opportunities.
    http://www.sylvanlearning.com/careers/positions

  107. “Muffy, I am going to read Go Set A Watchman. I read the first chapter at the Guardian. However I am first going to go back and read To Kill A Mockingbird again.

    What I love love love is a book being discussed in the MSM. Great stuff on the radio. There is hope for literacy.”

    I read the first chapter last night. Like Rabbit reading makes me sleepy but a chapter or two on the balcony chaise or before sleep time will be perfect. I plan to stretch this one out and make it last.

    I went Kindle but I will buy a hardcover soon as I get a chance. I bought the anniversary re-release of the hardcover of Mockingbird. It’s long been a fantasy of mine to come across a 1st edition printing at a yard sale or in the basement of an old book store.

    Her sentences are masterpieces.

    This is the story Harper Lee set out to write. It was only on a suggestion from her editor to take the protagonist back to the Tom Robinson trial that Mockingbird was hatched.

    There’s a documentary on PBS on the book and Harper Lee but I only caught the tail end of it a few nights ago. The last half hour was riveting.

    The way this book is being released seems to me so perfect as to be a wondrous story in its own right.

    http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/episodes/harper-lee/about-the-documentary/1972/

  108. I’m kind of setting myself up for a possibly devastating disappointment. Oh well, I don’t care. It has to be read.

  109. Sheesh. – ET

    Sorry. The way you guy’s were indicting Obama, I thought this was a U.S.-Iran treaty that would get an up or down vote in the Senate. I didn’t realize it was a negotiation by committee by the worlds “elite” class that would then be put before the U.N. That’s like pulling teeth from a one-tooth, comatose hag. Gruesome and (like I said before) pointless.

  110. Candlebox was omitted on purpose. DR

    I was noting commercial success, not endorsing quality or declaring tastes. I don’t care for Kenny G. either, but the guy has sold gobs.

  111. Do you know what he said when they busted the first A-bomb at Trinity? – Aliasmorph

    Those are some fucked up prairie dogs. Buns, ketchup anyone? I told them we should have done this in the Outback. Could have had some fried croc. – Dr. O.

    I think Cate Blanchett as the Crystal Skull Commie says it better. Of course, she does everything better, except checking her own ego.

    I love fusion. It grows my garden and gives me this Greek god bronze tan every summer. The problem is intent and the difficulty in regulating it, if that can be done at all.

  112. I am on vacation from reading or discussing current events. The leaving fits the earth quack scare should it happen. – James

    Nice to hear from you James. I was beginning to wonder. BIC will be in more trouble than any of us if volcanic activity heats up. The mudslide from Rainier will flow all the way to Seattle and Tacoma. Always has, always will, in this epoch anyway.

  113. How do folks here feel about the possibility that Lee may not be cogent enough to consent to this publication of her first draft? – R

    She probably prefers having it released now, while she can add her perspective, rather than after she dies and people can say whatever they want about her motivations, un-refuted.

    Case in point, Hemingway’s “Islands in the Stream”.

  114. But that would most likely be volunteer and I need to be bringing in Benjamins. – R

    This gig ain’t paid. How much time do you spend here. (BTW, if I haven’t said it recently, thank you.)

    But I can see why ET endorses it. He tutors Thor on a daily basis. 🙂

  115. I’m not a lit guy I like books for the subject not for anything the author brings to the table. That said I find the release weird and manufactured and wonder if this is Salinger-esque blah blah.

  116. Hospitals would be a wonderful place to volunteer for two reasons: the kids need to see disability at work and you would have the medical facility in case you have any problems.

    On a humorous note, I exercise at the hospital and I always think to myself “well, if I have a heart attack on this recumbent stepper at least I’m not far from the cardiac unit”. 😊

  117. Deal or no deal the worse case scenario is the same regarding Iran .

    This seems to be the representative opinion with those who have common sense.

    1) We are keeping Iran from having the bomb (for now)
    2) This is not about regime change. That battle has to be fought via some other venue.
    3) This is not a treaty. The notion that Congress should have any veto power over this is absurd and in all likelihood they won’t.

  118. What is the benefit Rutherford?

    Regime change? Treaty? So what?

    I really want to know what you think not whom you agree with because. . .Obama!

    Oh, and Death to America.

  119. Congress can’t block the agreement but they don’t have to eliminate the US sanctions.unfortunately international affairs being what they are if Congress did that the USA would get successfully sued. This is the sovereignty neutering thing people speak of regards treaties etc

  120. Congress could enact legislation that might prevent carrying certain terms of the agreement, I’m sure. I don;t know what that might be, but it’s there somewhere or Obama wouldn’t be worried about it.

  121. On a humorous note, I exercise at the hospital and I always think to myself “well, if I have a heart attack on this recumbent stepper at least I’m not far from the cardiac unit”.-R

    I got a chuckle out of that because I also exercise at the hospital and have often thought the same. In my case it’s the pool so if my COPD clicks in and my hip gives out I’ll be rescued.

  122. I agree Alfie that there is something strange about the release. It very well be that Harper Lee didn’t authorize it but her caretakers needed funds and used a POA. I bet there is a ghost writer involved somewhere. The timing is very apropos.

  123. The only thing you need to really know about the Iran Deal is who approves of the end result.

    Ali Khamenei, Bashar al-Assad, Hassan Nasrallah, Rutherford, JF_ingKerry, and Obama. Joe Biden is too stupid to understand which way the bathroom is, so we’ll leave him out of it.

    For America? It’s a POS and we obviously got rolled again.

  124. So the answer to Tigre, Rabbit and Tex (Debbie WS) Taylor is this:

    Like most deals, this could have been better or worse. None of us really know what we’re talking about because we are all going on the half truths provided by the opposing sides.

    The critical questions are:
    1) Will Iran have the bomb next year? The year after that? How about the year after that?
    2) Under the sanctions regime has Iran become more or less dangerous? Have sanctions worked?
    3) If the international community is ready to give up on sanctions, what good is our standing alone?
    4) If a country is dead set on getting the bomb (see North Korea) they will get it unless we bomb them every 3 years. This comment is based on the stat I heard that if we took out Iran’s nuke capability, we’d set them back 3 years. (And INCREASE their appetite for the bomb.)

    So to summarize, you boys have no viable alternative to what went down. By my estimation that nominates you for the STFU list. 😊

  125. As I thought. No answer. Doesn’t know what we got out of it and tell us to STFU. No viable alternative. How about no agreement and a threat to bomb, sanction, support other that will. . . ?

    If it serves no purpose because they can build anyway then enforcement mechanisms are meaningless too.

    I’m sure we’ll be rewarded with good behavior now.

    Death to America.

  126. Could it be the Arab world has its panties in a knot, not because Iran is Iran but because Iran is Shia? Could it be Sunni’s wanna run the whole shebang?

    My knowledge of the religious divide there is puddle deep but I did check the demographics of the region before posting this comment.

  127. No way was this written by a ghost writer!

    I think when this was rejected Lee intended to write mockingbird as a prequel to a triligy. I recall reading long ago that she had no idea how great mockingbird was. Maybe how great it was changed things for her.

    I do love a good mystery though and there’s room for lots of things within this situation.

    But 3 chapters in and I’m ALL IN.

  128. The story I heard was she was told “focus on the Scout character” and she rewound it to when Scout was younger.

    I find it interesting that the Finch of the 1950’s was written as a racist but she makes him more PC in the 1930’s.

    I read somewhere (perhaps in a Muffy link) that the Finch we know is a passive-aggressive racist if we really hold him to a high standard. Watchman just makes his racism more up front.

  129. People are complex. I haven’t read anything in (so far) or about the book to suggest that the character of Atticus changed. Both time periods read to me like two very real coming of age moments in the life of first a child then a young adult, with Atticus being the same man throughout.

    Great questions developing in these pages about love, acceptance, morality, and the child becoming in some ways perfected through the father’s flaws.

  130. “My knowledge of the religious divide there is puddle deep but I did check the demographics of the region before posting this comment.”

    You had to check today if Iran was Shia and the Saudis, Sunni?

  131. Rabbit, what about puddle deep did you not understand?

    Yes I needed to confirm which was which and in particular which was the dominant sect in the region.

    Let me let you in on a secret. If I’m faced with a 50/50 choice, I’m notorious for picking the wrong 50. That’s why I checked my memory before posting. If I got it wrong, I’d never live it down.

  132. Well I have to admit, I am not reading Harper Lee’s book.

    Instead, I am reading a memoir by Lamb of God singer, Randy Blythe, about his experience being arrested, imprisoned, and tried for manslaughter in the Czech Republic following the death a fan attending one of their shows.

    It’s no literary masterpiece, but it’s the first book I have read for pleasure in a long, long time.

  133. “Yes I needed to confirm which was which and in particular which was the dominant sect in the region”..

    I normally don’t bust balls over depth of knowledge stuff. But this is pathetic. You are a 50 year old political blogger who jams cable news in your car. You’ve been waxing eloquently on the Middle East for almost a decade.

    At least your the biggest fish in the AOL athiesm chat room, you densico fuck.

  134. Four marines? Workplace violence, probably. I’ve grown so numb to the vile, putrid Left and Obama, the utter inhumanity and unedifying character of my political opponents, it’s hardly worth mentioning these days. When a government condones harvesting aborted fetal parts and selling them while swilling red wine and stuffing mouths with arugula, this is no longer a country I recognize. When a government can force a couple into bankruptcy for not obeying their moral conscience, the government is no longer legitimate in my eyes.

    Reminds me a lot more of North Korea than the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave. Told me friends yesterday, the days of debate are over. When you’re serious about making changes, at the end of the barrel if need be, call me or look me up.

  135. You’ve been waxing eloquently on the Middle East for almost a decade.

    I have?

    Here’s the deal. Did I think Iran was Shia and Saudi Arabia was Sunni? Yes. BUT I could easily get my wires crossed. Post it backwards and you guys would have been merciless.

    My mistake was admitting I fact checked. Next time I’ll pretend to be an expert.

  136. Will Iran have the bomb next year? If they want it they can have it in six months. If we believe Obama, they will have it around ten years from now.

    Will Iran be more dangerous without the sanctions? Of course, Iran will be more dangerous. Sanctions are a poor substitute for bombs, but they have denied Iran money it can use to enhance its economic development and its weapons production and purchases. Iran expects a windfall after the sanctions stop. They know and the lying little president probably also knows that once lifted it will be next to impossible to impose them again as they are. So, yes, sanctions have worked compared to the alternative.

    If the international community is ready to give up on sanctions what good is our standing alone?

    Its called leadership, something we exerted before our present administration.
    We have persuaded allies to do what they would rather not do before. The international community knows the US has a power vacume now, and they will profit from it if they can. We wouldn’t have to stand alone if we had different leaders.

    If a country is dead seat on getting the bomb, they will get it unless we bomb them every three years. Maybe or maybe not.

    Sanctions are only part of the punishment we should dole out. Subversion and sabatage are also required. We had a good opportunity to stir up trouble with the Green Revolution. We could encourage ethic groups within the country to cause problems. We could start secretly murdering their leaders. The Russians are experts. We could learn from them.

    Clinton told us he had prevented North Korea from making the bomb. He was lying at the time. He was worrying more about cigars.

    I have given you viable alternatives to what went down. My alternatives have been tried before, so the STFU list doesn’t apply.

    Iranian leaders are mocking Obama and the US. They are more trustworthy on this than our own leaders.

    Our leaders are contemptible ghouls who with the treaty agreement have abandoned four American hostages as surely as Planned Parenthood has abandoned and sliced dead babies for profit.

    A Latin Democratic legislator said the woman murdered by an illegal in a sanctuary city was a small matter directing attention from the important issues.

    Obama and his socialists are destroying our country with the help of the liberal news media who have kept the masses ignorant.

    People who voted for these foreign ideological leaders have given us a new world. You should be happy.

  137. Rutherford, you are like a bad habit. I interrupted my news vacation just for you.

    The solution to our problem is illegal, immoral and threatens our eternal souls. It is better to express my anger with a video bomb instead of literal bombs.I hope it disgusts some of you. On the other hand the song has put our grand daughter to sleep eight times this summer. Ironic isn’t it?

  138. With a large enough speaker, these candy ass female performances could’ve stopped Iran’s nuclear ambitions.

  139. “Four marines? Workplace violence, probably. . . ”

    For a second there I thought you said four “minions.”

  140. El Tigre, can you imagine those female Russian singers being broadcast on the Call to Prayer loud speakers? Sabotage we can believe in.

  141. Lol….at first I was laughing at that teen minion-phobe, and by the end I was laughing with her.

    I can sympathize, having sat through the whole movie in 3D.

    By mid movie my 3 year old went on to better things such as picking old gum someone stuck on the seat.

    As the the faint smell of stale mint starts to waft, my 5 year old leans over to me and says, with the most serious and intense whisper ever, “This is the best movie he has ever seen”.

  142. James – Russia helped negotiate the deal. They won’t be doing our dirty work for us. The only assassinations they are interested in are flight attendants and little Dutch kids. Putin is a blood-soaked pig. A little punk ass fuck that hides behind his goons and his power structure. That country had a chance to be part of the 21st century, join those of us that are trying to do the right thing, even when we fuck up. He’s just like Castro, took the people’s revolt and turned it into his own private mafia organization.

    Never forget, it’s only been a year.

    WARNING : This is not for the weak.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/video-russian-backed-rebels-mh17-ukraine-2015-7

    Surprised the thunder-less from down under didn’t mention it first. Three dozen of the victims were his countrymen.

  143. “Will Iran have the bomb next year? If they want it they can have it in six months.”

    That statement has been true for more than a decade. Yet their cost/benefit analysis has continually made them decide now is not the time. Why do you guys insist on giving them reasons to change their mind?

    “Will Iran be more dangerous without the sanctions? Of course, Iran will be more dangerous. Sanctions are a poor substitute for bombs, but they have denied Iran money it can use to enhance its economic development and its weapons production and purchases.”

    Iran has had plenty of money for weapons or it wouldn’t be able to send so many of them to various groups as part of its hegemonic influence–which we all admit they are achieving. It has also had enough money to create a nuclear program that has put them in a position to where “If they want it they can have it in six months.”

    “Sanctions are only part of the punishment we should dole out. Subversion and sabatage are also required.”

    Both have been done. And yet, ” If they want it they can have it in six months”

    “We had a good opportunity to stir up trouble with the Green Revolution. We could encourage ethic groups within the country to cause problems.”

    No we didn’t. We had a good opportunity to cause a lot of people to be slaughtered. Did you not see how Iran reacts to those that “stir up trouble”? Iran is not Libya.

    “We could start secretly murdering their leaders.”

    There’s only 1 leader in Iran that matters in this context. You want them to have that bomb in 6 months?–then do this.

    You all seem to think Iran is not a rational actor, yet you also claim they can have the bomb whenever they want. You claim they have the desire to–and are succeeding in–making themselves a regional hegemon. You claim they have particular goals and they are reaching them through various decisive actions over the long term–as well as tacitly admitting they are not doing things they could do if they wanted to. Things that we–and they–know would have severe repercussions. That is just about the very definition of a rational actor.

  144. My final words on this because I am going to write a paper on it.

    If you look at the moves Iran has and has not made over the last 30 years, and assume they make their decisions based on a cost/benefit analysis that everyone does, you can see where in most of them the benefit of doing something or not doing something has ended up being greater than the cost of that action or inaction.

  145. That statement has been true for more than a decade. Yet their cost/benefit analysis has continually made them decide now is not the time. – Huck

    I think they have finally decided they want their nuclear power plants designed by Americans and not Russians.

  146. Iran is pursuing a wise strategy to wait for a nuclear weapon until a treaty which removes
    sanctions and gives it other benefits is codified. Iran doesn’t need a bomb now. The threat of a bomb is sufficient.

    Huck, Iran doesn’t have as much money for weapons or subversion as it will if the sanctions are lifted.Iran will have a windfall which it will use to improve its economy and make especially its young citizens happier than they are now. Iran already is carving out spheres of influence. A large injection of money will make them more dangerous than they are. I read that Iran may get a windfall of a half billion dollars if the agreements are approved.

    Yes, subversion has been done, most notably the likely computer virus which plagued Iran’s nuclear development program recently. However, Israel, not the US might be responsible. We could have done more.

    Coercive diplomacy would have gotten us a better deal. The Wall Street Journal explains how we should have used a different strategy than we did. For example Iran had an official inflation rate of 35% in December, 2011. Its currency reserves were down to about $20 billion. Its economy was sinking, and they considered negotiating. We helped sicken Iran’s economy, but we could have done more to make Iran less stubborn.
    The US could have black listed specific parts of Iran’s economy owned by the Revolutionary Guard Corps, for example.

    Obama approved waivers for countries like Japan to purchase Iranian oil, and did not impose effective sanctions against financial institutions notably Chinese banks which provided access to foreign currency.
    Obama resisted Congress’ effort to turn the screws, and he later took credit for what he had opposed. Iran was paying attention.

    We did little to help the Green demonstrators. Iran’s blood bath would have been mutual had we begun arming the protest movement. Yes,Iran would have likely slaughtered the protesters, but the adverse publicity and the enhanced anti- government sentiments would have been more extreme than they would have been at the beginning of the slaughter. The government’s position would have been weakened, and they would have risked the danger of another revolution. We could have murdered government officials and other leaders to create fear and uncertainty.

    Our giving aid to Iranian Kurds and others would have put further pressure on Iran to negotiate and offer more concessions.

    We needed to make Iran’s policies too expensive to maintain without compromise. We did not pressure the Iranians as severely as we could have and our administration practically begged Iran to give us a deal, any deal. We let them cross so many red lines they ran out of paint.

    That defeated the purpose of coercive diplomacy. Coercive diplomacy brought North Vietnam to negotiations and it helped convince the Soviet Union that continuing was more expensive than making peace with the West.

    Thor, I’m not suggesting we ask Russia to help us. I believe we should use some of Russia’s methods without shooting down civilian air craft.

    I have seen dead people, and I don’t relish watching Iran murder thousands of its citizens. However, thousands of people have already died, and more, maybe hundreds of thousands of people will die, especially if we trigger a Middle Eastern arms race which involves outsiders like Russia, China, and the West.

    Negotiating a diplomatic deal is similar to haggling for a painting in Naples or buying a car. Our banker once told me not to fall in love with a tractor I wanted to buy. He warned me to walk away if I couldn’t get a fair price.

    The winning negotiator carries a psychological advantage which makes the other side worry about the stronger party’s intentions. Obama, through this process has been as transparent as a window.

    I think this agreement will ultimately pass, and Iran will have its nukes, and missiles to black mail its enemies.

  147. There’s another damn good movie on Netflix. I didn’t see in the movie theater because it has German captions. I add that to the list of best movies of the Decade.

    Can’t remember the name exactly but it’s like ‘The Last 12 Days of Hitler.’ Damn good movie. The guy that plays Hitler is uncanny.

  148. @thor what do you mean by ” extension of Iraq Iran War”? – Alfie

    Saddam pulled back to the original border after about two years. Iran could have settled in to peace negotiations at that time. Instead, they tried to take the offensive without the resources to prosecute such a war. They were never going to hold Iraq’s oil ports and they were never going to make it to Baghdad, the only two “benefits” that would have made any sense when weighed against the cost. But that didn’t keep them from throwing wave after human wave into the meat slicer, for six more years. Going up against superior armor and air power and an enemy with no qualms about using chemical weapons, with little more than bodies to throw at them, for years after they are no longer on your soil, doesn’t seem like cost/benefit analysis. It does, however, smell a lot like ego and fanaticism. Just the kind of country we want to have nuclear weapons.

  149. Alfie, I can’t chill out. Our heat index was 115 two hours ago, and it is still over 110.

    I am not upset. I am presenting a case and supporting it as I did in college discussions. I am sure my diagnosis is more accurate than the administration’s, and within ten years, I will be proven right. So far, it is anyone’s game, but I know who will prevail. Wait and see.

    I agree with thor. Iranian leaders don’t necessarily follow behavioral rules some countries do–The US and Soviet Union, for example.
    I told you, Rutherford, I need a longer vacation than I have given myself. You should run a more boring blog.

  150. I thought it was generally accepted that Iran had superior air assets given how th wear played out. the Iranians had integrated air support going up against a defensive Iraqi element.
    As for

    the only two “benefits” that would have made any sense when weighed against the cost

    There you go thinking like a westerner. I think the Iranians had a different scale for the weigh-in. The mullahs clearly saw how a sustained patriotic fight was of immense benefit to consolidating their power. Another benefit was to adjust the power scale in the neighborhood. The Iranians near maniacal pursuit of attrition win is indicative to me that the Iranians were willing to bleed,willing to pay the price.
    the stalemate nature of the ultimate outcome supports your position,but I think the benefit reaped by Iran and its evolving Shiite hegemony was intentional so the cost:benefit thing isn’t as skewed as you might believe.

  151. I tuned in to MSNBC last nihht and quickly realised that the whole spin on the terrorist attack was those damn rednecks and their guns.

    I couldn’t help but laugh.

    This right here pretty much summarized everything I saw last night on MSNBC. As someone in the YouTube comments suggested, perhaps she should have also asked if he chewed tobacco and played the banjo.

  152. I thought it was generally accepted that Iran had superior air assets – Alfie

    Perhaps on paper, but it was rusting on the ground. That’s why they mined the Shatt-el- Arab and attacked tankers mostly from ships, not the air. I do understand your point about consolidating power, but after pushing Saddam back to the border, they could have agreed to peace and accomplished the same thing, six years and tens of thousands of lives earlier.

    “But revolutionary Iran was very limited in its tactically offensive means. Cut off from U.S. supplies for its largely U.S.-equipped forces and deprived of the shah’s officer cadres who had been driven into exile, imprisoned, or killed, it never managed to reconstitute effective armored formations or its once large and modern air force. Iran’s army and Pasdaran revolutionary guards could mount only massed infantry attacks supported by increasingly strong artillery fire. They capitalized on Iran’s morale and population advantage (forty million versus Iraq’s thirteen million), but although foot infantry could breach Iraqi defense lines from time to time, if only by costly human-wave attacks, it could not penetrate deeply enough in the aftermath to achieve decisive results.”

    http://www.history.com/topics/iran-iraq-war

  153. Thor, how come you can’t always be this way?

    You’re not just dropping innuendo and then running from your normal, partisan weak hand, like usual.

    Two Homers. Two Shakespeares. Two Thors.

  154. Well I finished Watchman. I had no control.

    Even the spoilerish murmers over the aesthetics and authenticity didnt prepare me for what was in store.

  155. Two Homers. Two Shakespeares. Two Thors. – DR

    I don’t know how to respond to that without ruining it, so I’ll just say, it’s complicated and thank you.

  156. Well I finished Watchman. I had no control. – Muffy

    Took my daughter to Barnes and Noble yesterday to pick it up. She has to finish a book for her AP English first, but then I’ll get her commentary as she dives in. She did tell me that TKAM was the only book she was ever “assigned” in school that she really enjoyed.

  157. Everything I’ve read so far says the shooter was a fairly normal guy. Everyone seems to be surprised he did it. But then there’s all those trips to Jordan.

    People often speak of “white guilt”. I wonder if there is such a thing as “Islamic guilt”. People living here with religious freedom, practicing Islam in the belly of the great satan, and then they travel abroad and see a much more radical form of their religion (not their initial intent but they are exposed to it nonetheless) and they begin to feel they are not contributing enough. They come back thinking they have something to prove, to show they are “all in”. Just a thought.

  158. Thor you raise an interesting point. To put it more vulgarly, does a Muslim living in pussy America go abroad and then comes back feeling like a sellout?

    While I understand the need to look for a possible organized assault or plot, I have a Wild West attitude toward this killing. Four men lost their lives and the killer paid with his life at the scene. Old fashioned justice is done. Case closed, let’s move on. All this conjecture on “why he did it” won’t bring the four back.

    He’s dead. It’s over. The ultimate retribution has been achieved, at no cost to the taxpayer, I might add.

  159. Kids away on an overnight so my wife and I did pizza and a movie.

    We watched “Boyhood”. Almost 3 hours long but damn good if you don’t want ACTION and want to reflect on life.

    A Linklater film, which means philosophical. If you’ve never seen “Waking Life” it’s worth a watch.

  160. Rabbit I’m sorry but the Andrea Mitchell interview is fucking hilarious. When she asks about guns, the girl basically politely reacts “WTF are you talking about?” I laughed out loud. It would be the same as if she asked a classmate of a black perp “did he like fried chicken and watermelon?”

    The assumption about culture was indeed cringe worthy.

  161. The GOP candidate response to Chattanooga was interesting. As far as I know, only Jindal went off screaming “RADICAL ISLAM!!!!”

    I know the patrons and I don’t see eye to eye on much but doesn’t anyone else here think Bobby is trying a bit too hard?

  162. I’ve thought the same thing. It is possible to feel religious guilt. We seem to find ways of feeling guilty about almost everything else. Why not guilt at living in an irreligious world while brothers and sisters are fighting the good fight?

    No doubt the Islamists encourage and capitalize on such tendencies.

    It does seem that Bobby Jindal is trying a little too hard.

    Old fashioned justice. I agree. I feel the same as Brown and the others who also died while attacking police officers etc.

  163. I don’t think they have to travel to feel Islamic guilt. Social media can do it too, now that we can visit the world without leaving home.

  164. I don’t find it religious guilt. I find fundamental Islamists (in America) and most of Black America have one thing in common, as did this punk.

    Victimhood. The entire world is working against them. You hear it all the time, whether it CAIR or NAACP. They’re victims and they’re unfairly targeted. They’re not respected, never mind they don’t do a damn thing to earn respect.

    Never mind they make up virtually all of terrorism and most of violent crime.

    The belief “the man and the system” are always against them. It’s pitiful. It’s pathetic. The two most pampered, catered to pooches on earth. Wahhh. Waahhhh. Waaaahhhhhh.

  165. As a general rule, college educated American Arabs are more likely to be sympathetic to jihadi Stink beardism.

    Working class and small merchants are less likely.

    Engineers are the worst.

    I think it may be the exact opposite in Europe.

    The have-and have-not Marxist bull shit is NOT driving this. MSNBC and Obama’s idiots are hilariously wrong. It ain’t about jobs.

    Poolman’s infection has also played a part. Many Muslism will tell you the CIA attacked New York on 911.

    At the end of the day, Islamic culture is diseased on so many levels, I wouldn’t know where to begin.

  166. Ha. Nailed it. Just read this:

    A résumé that Mr. Abdulazeez posted on the Internet shows that he received an engineering degree from the University of Tennessee-Chattanooga in 2012 and interned with the Tennessee Valley Authority, learning to manage electrical power systems.

  167. @ Rutherford I think Tex hits it. Fundamentalism of every stripe is where the issue comes from.It is found in the overzealous corners of all faiths. I think you could even make the case that it transcends the real faiths and can be found thriving amongst all the “ism’s”.
    I think anyone can fall for it and that a number of factors have to come into play to hook someone.

  168. @ Thor not to flog the horse but I think that is an overly slanted viewpoint. The Iranians managed to use effective close air support ,primarily helicopters,up to the final battles.
    Iran’s military and leadership shortcomings were more than equally matched by Iraq’s failings in the same areas. Those failures were true in the 80’s,the 90’s and now. Conscripts,crappy Soviet equipment and disconnected leadership might have been the 5th largest military on the planet but that doesn’t speak to ability.

  169. “The assumption about culture was indeed cringe worthy.”

    Says the El Chapo of culture assumptions.

    While your MSNBC idiots were fishing for a narrative, how did they forget about his radicalization from the confederate flag?

  170. “At the end of the day, Islamic culture is diseased on so many levels, I wouldn’t know where to begin.”

    I’m offended by that.

    This all about the diseased culture of white conservatives.

  171. I see chaps.

    Atheists can also be as extreme as religious fundamentalists because they internalize the same religious impulse.

    Victimization and guilt can both motivate. Victimization may be a better hook in Europe where bigotry is practiced more openly than here. Both work.

    alfie makes a good point. Resources can alter the quality of an army’s ability to fight to its potential.

    The Winter War in Finland and the South Vietnamese Army after we cut off their aid are two examples.

    I think all of our societies are sick in one way or another. I also believe our culture is superior to Islam at making material life better for the largest number of people. The old white and old black cultures are also superior to the victimization city attitudes and values which lead to Detroit and Chicago.

    Whites have no need to feel any more guilt than other races should. After all “We built this city.”

  172. It’s telling that Andrea Mitchell immediately follows a statement from the classmate that ends with “always talked about religion” with “were guns a big part of activity?” Good grief is that a parody of agenda driven coverage?

  173. Muffy, you should have watched Rutherford’s channel that night. It went on for hours. Hours!

    It’s chilling when you realize that a portion of this country would rather provide coverage to Islamic jihadis so that they can’t paint essentially myself as the true enemy. I hate them. They hate me. It’s fucked up that exists in America.

  174. If it’s in the media, it is definitely agenda drivel.
    Divide and conquer. Problem>reaction>solution
    Amazing no one can see the obvious pattern.

    “At the end of the day, Islamic culture is diseased on so many levels, I wouldn’t know where to begin.”

    FIFY. Name a culture that is healthy and thriving presently on planet earth.

    It’s an old cliche, but accurate. Change begins within. Healing begins within. We can all do our part, but FIRST one must see things as they really are. That’s the platform most never get to. Managing symptoms is not the healthiest way to live.

  175. Re: Watchman. The book was the opposite of a letdown. Sadly I think the most likely return is that people will let the book down.

    The woolgathering over its release is unfortunate and misses the point entirely in that the work itself stands as the best explanation for its release. It’s beautifully written, lyrical. I’ve always regarded Mockingbird as a gift from the heart first to black Americans, secondarily an offering to the South.

    This is a just and faithful parent to Mockingbird, the term “parent” given by way of explanation by the author. Atticus is no bigot. He’s a lesson in tolerance and love, and perhaps above all – personal conscience.

    I can’t really say much more, I’m still digesting it. But I don’t think love is too strong a word for what I thought of it.

  176. Says the El Chapo of culture assumptions.

    LOL the only man I know who bitches when someone AGREES with him.

    “Damn you! You agree!” 😤😤😤😤

  177. Tex you can chuckle. The black man who supposedly organized the flag welcome for Obama is a damn fool.

    The flag represents his 3/5 of a person status. I hope he shows up at today’s KKK rally in SC, obviously forgetting who he is, and gets lynched. Then his family can celebrate the Southern culture that the flag represents. 😈😈😈😈

  178. Good grief is that a parody of agenda driven coverage?

    Agreed, Muffy. I think it’s reflexive and not particularly thought through.

    The same goes for Fox. I may remember days that never existed but I thought the journalistic ideal had always been objectivity. Those days are gone. So called journalists almost always let their personal ideology seep into their coverage.

  179. Muffy if you’d like to elaborate on your “review” I’d be happy to publish it as a guest post as I did with Huck. Just say the word. You know where to find me.

  180. The flag represents his 3/5 of a person status. I hope he shows up at today’s KKK rally in SC, obviously forgetting who he is, and gets lynched. Then his family can celebrate the Southern culture that the flag represents.

    El Chapoford? You read bitter. 😈 If the flag makes a person 3/5, what percentage personhood does a bullet to the head South Chicago make?

  181. By the way Muffy, I noticed in my email that you now (or already did) know my true identity.

    Yes Muffy don’t tell anyone that the Rabbit sits high among the Illuminati plotting for a one world government.

    Or maybe it is that mild mannered Dead Rabbit is really:

    SUPER RABBIT

    😳😳😳😳😳

  182. If the flag makes a person 3/5, what percentage personhood does a bullet to the head South Chicago make?

    You raise an excellent point. The two are not mutually exclusive. And one does not negate the other.

    In truth, the modern KKK is such a joke that “black rebel” would stand a better chance at the KKK rally than in South Chicago.

  183. “In truth, the modern KKK is such a joke that “black rebel” would stand a better chance at the KKK rally than in South Chicago.”

    Thankfully the El Chapoford social justice warriors started and ended with the confederate flag. Wheew! Thahk God they got that done.

    Time for a nap and some feel good MSNBC.

  184. “The same goes for Fox. I may remember days that never existed but I thought the journalistic ideal had always been objectivity. Those days are gone. So called journalists almost always let their personal ideology seep into their coverage.

    Objectivity has always been in short supply. There were never objective “days” only individuals, and precious few of those. The journalistic ideal was to not become the story. That – more than his raging bias, which is quite unremarkable among the profession – is what makes Brian Williams a complete failure as a newsman.

    Andrea Mitchell doesn’t represent the flip side of Fox. She represents the worst of all the predators posing as journalists.

  185. “Andrea Mitchell doesn’t represent the flip side of Fox. She represents the worst of all the predators posing as journalists.”

    Amen. I’ve watched them both. Yes, incredible bias. But there are no real counterparts at Fox for the Andrea Mitchells and others at MSNBC. There does seem to be some kind of competition for the worst with CNN though.

    With its viewership, I am kind of surprised Fox has no conservative competitors.

    How about that bastion of journalistic integrity, Dan Rather?

  186. Damn Muffy. I was just getting ready to question El Chapoford the same same thing.

    I hope my saying so doesn’t ruin it.

  187. Thankfully the El Chapoford social justice warriors started and ended with the confederate flag. Wheew!

    It’s called going for the low hanging fruit.

    What’s really troubling is that it took 9 murders to get the fruit to hang that low.

  188. Andrea Mitchell doesn’t represent the flip side of Fox. She represents the worst of all the predators posing as journalists.

    While I agree the approach could be viewed as predatory, surely you’re not suggesting Fox is immune from such predatory behavior.

  189. I may embrace “El Chapoford”.

    LOL. It absolutely “elevates” you, Chapoford. It gives you a certain set of gravitas, admittedly. We finally found a title befitting of your El Obamasty.

  190. Rutherford what is the extent of your understanding or interpretation of the 3/5’s compromise?

    Just by your question, I’m guessing my answer will get me in hot water.

    If memory serves it involved the counting of residents either for the apportionment of representatives or some such other thing.

    The concept of being less than a full human being is what’s galling but I shall go wiki it right now to refresh my memory on the specifics.

  191. Ok my memory was better than I thought. It involved apportionment of representatives. By counting slaves fully, the concern was that the slave states would have too much power.

    So … I’m guessing that Muffy is getting at the point that this insult to blacks was an invention of THE NORTH to limit Southern power.

    Do I read you right, Muffy?

  192. “While I agree the approach could be viewed as predatory, surely you’re not suggesting Fox is immune from such predatory behavior.”

    Fox is not a person. Let’s start there.

    “Fox News” as an entity contains in its programming lineup some unquestionably predatory people. Hannity appears to be as biased and predatory as Mitchell, but Hannity is a pundit. Andrea Mitchell needs to decide whether she’s a pundit or an anchor or a correspondent. She does none of them well, but she becomes predatory when she leads folks on that she’s a news anchor or a reporter.

    Put her up against Jennifer Griffith, Catherine Herridge, or Shepherd Smith and “Fox” indeed rises above Mitchell’s evil ways.

  193. Andrea Mitchell needs to decide whether she’s a pundit or an anchor or a correspondent.

    You are absolutely right that Mitchell and Hannity occupy different positions and purposes. Hannity does not pretend to be a journalist and Mitchell does.

    Point taken.

  194. “The concept of being less than a full human being is what’s galling but I shall go wiki it right now to refresh my memory on the specifics.”

    The galling phrase “less than a full human being” doesn’t correspond to the concept of people as numbers. And that’s what the 3/5’s compromise was proposed to address for, yes, legislative representation and taxing purposes.

    This less than human slant is always how you use the 3/5’s compromise and its misleading and just plain wrong. It’s not a question of humanity.

    Also, not so much to establish a check on the power of Southern states but Southern slaveholders.

    Out of curiosity, do you challenge the validity of the numbers of actual slaveholders in the South?

  195. Speaking of plotting for a one world government that may not be far-fetched

    This is an excellent article regarding the situation currently going on in Greece from the German viewpoint.
    I found this comment to be of particular interest:

    “Schäuble: We are currently seeing that a currency union without political union cannot function without complications. So we have to move further toward establishing a political union, for example by strengthening the European Commission and the European Parliament. But that means that member states must give up even more sovereignty. They have already taken this step when it comes to monetary policy, but are they also prepared to transfer financial policy competencies, for example, to the European level? Many have a problem with that.”

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/interview-with-german-finance-minister-wolfgang-schaeubl

  196. IMO the 3/5 compromise was to avoid taxation. At the time slaves were considered property and therefore taxed accordingly. I don’t know if it was an invention of the North as much as a compromise for Southerns to have to look at their slaves as possibly a part of the human race to avoid taxes. It all boils down to money and power which again IMO is what the Civil War was all about.

    The Confederate flag was much more than a symbol of slavery. However the KKK is out to prove me wrong.

  197. The 3/5 compromise was created during the US Constitutional Convention as an agreement to manage the slave population fairly. Counting people was important to determine state representation. The southern states got more representatives than if slaves weren’t counted and less than by counting slaves as whole people.
    Taxes were also an issue as Ragi wrote.

  198. Ragi may also be right about the chances of one world government. However, if the Washington Post article linked to Drudge is correct, we have more immediate worries than an international government.

    Obama has figured out how to get reparations for blacks. If the story is true, it may be time for Tea Party style demonstrations.

    We raised everything we ate for dinner except for the pork chops.

  199. The 3/5 ratio contributed to southern political power until around the Civil War. As people settled in areas maladapted to the southern culture and economy the south feared its political power would slip away. We discussed this problem a while ago.

  200. The compromise gave slavery a new cultural currency as a political issue but didn’t the South want blacks counted as whites for for the purpose of determining representation at a time when blacks had no vote? While the North regarded blacks as property to be taxed and to receive no representation?

  201. I don’t know, Muffy, but it sounds familiar from memory. I don’t have time to look it up, but I think that issue was discussed as you wrote.

    The original debate dates back at least to the Articles of Confederation, I think.

  202. “I’m forgetting the point of this but the confederate flag doesn’t represent the 3/5s compromise as far as I can figure.”

    It doesn’t.

    The reality of it is nearly the exact opposite of what Rutherford thinks.

  203. The original debate dates back at least to the Articles of Confederation, I think. – J

    I don’t know if they debated it, but I doubt it. There is no enumeration clause and no mention of slavery in the Articles that were enacted.

    didn’t the South want blacks counted as whites for for the purpose of determining representation at a time when blacks had no vote? – Muffy

    Yes, but it wasn’t to bolster the representation of the “other people”. It only boosted the representation of the slave owners. White women were counted, but they couldn’t vote either. The compromise must have worked in the favor of the South. I believe 10 of the first 12 presidents were southern slave owners. I blame the Dutch.

  204. Old fashioned justice is done. Case closed, let’s move on. All this conjecture on “why he did it” won’t bring the four back. – R

    No, but it might help us stop someone in the future.

    He’s dead. It’s over. The ultimate retribution has been achieved, at no cost to the taxpayer, I might add. – R

    This is somewhat barbaric and entirely untrue. He died thinking he gained heaven on a golden-winged escalator. The ultimate retribution would have been for him to fail miserably, having killed no one, gaining no favor from Allah and spending the next 70 years rotting in Leavenworth, exponentially more powerless than he felt before hatching this plot.

    And on the matter of no cost to taxpayers, a quick list off the top of my head …

    Four lives (Aside from the loss of four souls, in purely cold analytical terms, there is a huge revenue loss for taxpayers in the potential lifetime of taxes that would have been paid by these individuals)
    Funerals at A.N.C.
    VA benefits to widows.
    Social security payments to spouses and children.
    Ammunition.
    Windows.
    Clean up.
    Fuel expenses for Coroner.
    Overtime.
    Purple Hearts.
    Postage for letters of condolence.
    Flowers.

  205. It worked for and against the south. Slaves were considered chattel and therefore taxed — the trade off for more representatives.

  206. “It worked for and against the south. Slaves were considered chattel and therefore taxed — the trade off for more representatives.” -ET

    That’s my understanding.

    “It only boosted the representation of the slave owners.” -thor

    I understand that.

    In any case, the 3.5s thing was not a statement about personhood.

    I think that closes the circle.

  207. I looked it up. The three fifths ratio originated with a 1783 amendment proposed for the Articles of Confederation. The amendment was to change from property to population as a means of determining the capacity for each state to produce wealth. The original amendment failed.

    The Constitutional arrangement did contribute to the South’s political power as noted, until the United States spread into regions unsuitable for the plantation agricultural system. As the Civil War approached, the South was forced to rely more on holding the Senate than in the past. Power was slipping away, year by year.

    Blaming the Dutch sounds good.

    Another intangible cost is the people who were never born after a mass murder.

  208. I think it’s funny that I basically answered Muffy’s question correctly just going on my recollection and then confirmed it with a subsequent Wiki lookup but everyone jumped on the bandwagon and repeated essentially the same answer.

    I also find it amusing how some want to separate the 3/5ths notion from the virulent bigotry that it is attached to.

    It’s all a part of the theme “any black insulted by our history really just doesn’t understand it. Confederate battle flag represents southern culture. Civil war wasn’t about slavery. 3/5ths compromise wasn’t demeaning to blacks.

    You dumb coloreds, just get over yourselves. You just too damn “igorant” to understand.”

    Reminds me of my Latin teacher in high school who told us if blacks just knew Latin, they wouldn’t be offended by ni**er.

  209. What the fuck are you blathering on about? You equated it to the confederate flag. Nobody’s robbing you of your victimhood. Give it a rest. You lecturing people on historical context is fucking rich, El Chapoford.

  210. You equated it to the confederate flag.

    It’s all of a piece dude. One indignity piled upon the one before; a whole string of them from 1789 – 1965 and that’s pretending that the Civil Rights Acts “solved” everything.

    It’s one thing to tell black folk to live in the moment and not make excuses. It’s quite another to whitewash history and pretend what was wasn’t.

    You’re damn right I equated the two, both reminders of a country that didn’t view black humans as fully human.

  211. I ain’t gonna do another man’s time.

    I’m not asking you to. I’m just asking you not to historically piss on my leg and then tell me it’s raining.

  212. On a lighter note, I heard today that Iran’s president assured his people that Iran’s attitude toward the USA has not changed despite the nuclear agreement.

    To quote a lawyer friend of mine:

    Death to America!

  213. Long past time for blacks your age, El ChapoFord, to get over it. Maybe your father experienced real racism. You haven’t.

    In fact, it’s long past time for guys like me that have had to live with the constant barrage of excuse makin’ about how much the system and the man are cheating you, to tell you to go “piss up a rope.” If you’re younger than 60 and whining to me about poor, poor pitiful you and you’re black and calling me racist, you can kiss my lily white ass.

    Frankly, guys my age, real men and not pandering pussies of the media and the politically correct crowd worried about harsh language, are tired of your bullshit, your bullying, and your lame fuckin’ excuses.

    The “historical” excuses of anyone under 60 are laughable. It’s a crutch. The Jews overcame 400 years of bondage. Had they been black, they’d still be blaming Egypt, I’m sure..

  214. “Long past time for blacks your age, El ChapoFord, to get over it. Maybe your father experienced real racism. You haven’t.”

    As opposed to today’s imitation racism? minor racism? pretend racism? ignorant racism? Oh yeah it is soooo much better than good old fashioned racism.

  215. Have you fellows seen Trump in action? Shit, I thought he was just clown, but now I realize that he has the perfect freedom only afforded those who don’t have that all-consuming desire to be president. He says exactly what he feels and knows is true, and what everybody else knows is true, too, but cannot say because they want that office so badly and are terrified of being called racist. That honesty is really resonating with the American voter, tired of hearing the same old PC bullshit.

    Trump was right on the money about the illegals coming across from Mexico – he’s right about McCain, too. That sonofabitch wasn’t the brightest bulb on the tree even before he had his punkin’ head thumped by the NVA every day for several years.

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jul/18/donald-trump-john-mccain-vietnam-iowa-republicans

  216. JAL – you need to recover from this, “Everything I don’t agree with is racist,” nonsense. People are just tired of it. It’s a cheap shot – a lazy, intellectually dishonest way of getting by without actually thinking about a problem – and an easy way to eschew the critic’s duty to suggest a solution.

    Believe me, the answer to every minority’s problem is not, “Well, it’s YOUR fault, Whitey, because you are a racist.” Sometimes it actually IS somebody else’s fault.

  217. “I’m not asking you to. I’m just asking you not to historically piss on my leg and then tell me it’s raining.”

    Show me who “historically pissed on your leg.”

    Go ahead El Chapoford. Go look. The 3/5 compromise was discussed, you were corrected (a Northern compromise not “confederate flag”), and you are mad because you went to Wikipedia and found the same? Bullshit. No whitewashing of any sort.

    You’re upset because no one is projecting the pity or whatever you think is owed. This lever you think you can pull to make whitey melt and feel shame? I ain’t gonna bite.

    I’m not going to let my children grow up pandering to this bullshit either. I’ve had my fill.

    Now rather than spending your time calling everyone a racist that doesn’t play your stupid “call and response” game, try driving your electric weenie-mobile to Target or BBB for a new bath mat.

  218. R, a little advice. Stay away from the symbolism and things you’ve been told should piss you off. Spend a day looking at what slavery really was and argue those points if you want. There’s plenty to discuss. Again, I blame the Dutch.

  219. I once posted an essay by a black man who explained why whites rule the world. European whites were in danger of extinction several times because of the harsh conditions they survived. They of all other races carry the most visible mutations from that time.

    Whites were fortunate to live by animals relatively easy to domesticate, and their harsh beginnings made them efficient killers.

    The writer noted that whites earned their modern position through hardship, and also luck. Whites made the world a better place than it would have been in spite of the millions of people they have killed or enslaved.

    Whites are as human as other races. Had the blacks been New World settlers, they would have been as enthusiastic slave holders as they were in the old country.

    Blacks endured horrible conditions, and for many finding their roots before genetic testing was next to impossible. They still bear the stigma and cost of their ancestor’s tragic lives.

    However, they ought to be grateful for their ancestors’ tragic up rooting. They live in America, one of the best nations in the world. Had they remained in Africa many would still be living in huts as Obama’s step brother does. Or they would have to put signs on their homes to stop their houses from being sold while they were at work.

    Many more would be dead now without tasting the comfort of a nice home, food and a family. Those who adopt the dominant, superior culture (superior in the sense that more people benefit) live better, in spite of the bias than they would have in their old countries.

    I am as white as they get, northern European with a bit of Asian, and I know the hell some of my ancestors endured to make better lives for themselves. Every white person here has similar stories.

    So Lurker, I am white and I am proud. You are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. I will be damned if someone like you tries to take what my people rightly earned. If that sounds racist, bite your dog.

  220. #1 What’s really troubling is that it took 9 murders to get the fruit to hang that low.
    What’s sad is that folks like Rutherford actually find any honesty in the deaths of the folks in Charleston to the “reconciliation of a nation” in taking down a flag. The people who wanted that flag down would use anything they could with an emphasis on the word USE. They don’t give a fuck about the church niggers any more than the piece of shit Root did.Wise the fuck up!
    #2 As for the 3/5ths thing. What the fuck is it with the mindless fucking sloths who ignore history and reality and parade this despicable fucking outrage culture that is going to do far more harm than good for the world.

    Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.

    ARTICLE I, SECTION 2, CLAUSE 3

    There is an awful lot behind this and insulting blacks isn’t one of them. Allowing for representation and taxation and allocation of resources to folks who didn’t have the vote is a tricky area for a democracy. The “compromise” was indeed very much pro North in its evolution but finding it a trick or curse thrust upon the South is folly. If the South wanted to insist on the property status of blacks a northerner had the right to demand representation for his livestock. That shows you the contextual inanity of the matter. The South would’ve loved to count every single breathing entity including slaves for representation purposes. Their power and influence over the union powered by procreation and importation of more slaves would have been quite powerful.

  221. I think Tigre hit the nail on the head. I don’t care who drags the bigotry in, I’ll tolerate it but I won’t surrender to it.

    It’s the same old lie. The Lilly Ledbetter lie. I’d better agree with you that it means what you say it means, or else.

  222. “#2 As for the 3/5ths thing…”

    This sounds like something I’d like to understand but, sadly, I don’t.

    I’ll be patient but you lost me Alfie.

  223. I agree, alfie. Several people have written similar views. The dispute was related to power and revenue. Both North and South wanted to create the US in their image.

  224. The Jews overcame 400 years of bondage. Had they been black, they’d still be blaming Egypt, I’m sure..

    They still whine about the Holocaust and they earn your tears. Fuck, they were literally given their own country to “protect” them from future abuse. See how well that worked out.

  225. Jews given their own country? After half of them were annihilated then placed in a country with few natural resources to boot about the size of New Jersey. Jews went out and turned a desert into a rose and won most of the Nobel science prizes since, while forming a democracy in a part of the world that short of Africa, is the most screwed up place on the planet.

    Jews are the last people on earth you want to be comparing your supposed black plight, El Chapoford. The last people on earth. The Asian community would be next where you should hang your head in shame here in America.

    Man, you the Harvard grad don’t even want to go there. You’ll embarrass yourself. Let’s talk a few simple facts:

    Israel was attacked less than 24 hours after being “given” a country with substandard warfare by six hostile countries and won, then beat their foes to pulp less than 10 years later. Most blacks have been given opportunities their ancestors probably didn’t even dream and too many of you nominated pimps as their spokespeople, flunked out of school, and made babies they can’t support. Most of you don’t look at opportunity. You want to be pampered, excused, pitied. And we both know why. You can’t even get beyond historical grievance. Everything is framed in race. Nobody else does that.

    And the minority of blacks who actually took advantage of their opportunities are then demonized by the rest of you because they actually did overcome and make something of themselves. They’re labeled Uncle Toms and cracka shoe shiners, or worse. Dr. Carson, SC Thomas, Herman Cain. You name it, you demonize them like the rest of the Democratic parrots.

    I understand the sham President has an entire system dedicated to gathering personal demographic information to categorize. You know why? Because that is all a black racist community activist can do. If Obama has failed America and he has, Obama has irreparably damaged most of the black community. The damage will take years to recover.

  226. LOL I have to fully agree that Trump exposes the hyperbole of the word “hero”.

    The only valor McCain showed in captivity was his refusal to use his connections to get the hell out of there. Trump was wrong not to acknowledge that. But McCain was hardly a hero in the classic sense.

    Trump says what so many are thinking and are afraid to say.

    And look at our hypocrisy. Trump insults Mexicans (supposedly) and gets mild rebuke from his opponents. He insults a POW and OMG the sky is falling.

    This country is so full of shit.

  227. Now rather than spending your time calling everyone a racist that doesn’t play your stupid “call and response” game, try driving your electric weenie-mobile to Target or BBB for a new bath mat.

    Will you remember me at Christmas? I’ll send you my address. 😊

  228. The Norths involvement in the 3/5ths compromise is beside the point. Ta-Nehisi Coates documents Northern bigotry against blacks in housing.

    The point is our country has inflicted a centuries long assault on the black man, North, South, doesn’t matter. Don’t sell me a compromise with racism at its core as some antiseptic bit of representative apportionment. It was part and parcel of the racist war on the black man.

  229. R, a little advice. Stay away from the symbolism and things you’ve been told should piss you off. Spend a day looking at what slavery really was and argue those points if you want. There’s plenty to discuss.

    The symbolism and modern defense of it shows a mindset.

    If you want to say it’s futile to try and change minds, that’s a different point and sadly maybe a valid one.

  230. Muffy, I THINK (I’m not sure) that Alfie is agreeing with everyone but me that the 3/5ths compromise is no insult to the black man.

    Hopefully he’ll elaborate. Or perhaps simplify.

  231. Tex I knew you would parade Jews history of achievement. I commend the Jewish reaction to adversity. I only wish blacks could find it within themselves to do the same.

    That doesn’t change one bit my criticism of a segment of (primarily) white America who wants to put slavery and all its fallout into some economic/cultural context that makes black outrage irrational.

    Like I said earlier “if only blacks knew Latin, they wouldn’t be offended by ni**er.”

    Oh how dumb is the Negro who isn’t grateful for how slavery eventually allowed him to live in our great nation!!!!

  232. As a member of white America, and all that’s happening here is some economic/cultural context to put your pavlovian black rage into context.

    Your connection was wrong. Quit rationalizing and get over it. We are all aware of slavery, mmmmkay. You want something else.

  233. “Oh how dumb is the Negro who isn’t grateful for how slavery eventually allowed him to live in our great nation!!!!”

    Reductio ad absurdum

  234. @ Muffy context wise the 3/5ths thing was not constructed as an “insult” to blacks nor was it really looking at black inferiority/subhuman-ness. It was all based in economics and political clout.
    The “legacy” of blacks being held down is fallacy. Blacks in America need to really be looked upon like French Republics. Each “new” era is dramatically different in many ways and is a mark of evolution.Using this theme one could say that blacks are approaching their 4th Republic phase.
    1. Pre Civil War Era. 2. Post Civil War to WWII. 3. Civil Rights 60’s to the 4th which is still to become clear. Let’s call it the Post Modern Era for now.It’s a coin toss as for how it plays out. FWIW Obviously the 1st sucks with slavery and times where many a free black was treated like poop. 2. regionally poopy with some great happenings including Tuskegee,Harlem Renaissance,Great migration and some openings in society in general. 3rd mixed back with racial reflex actions but also widespread acceptance via media influence.

    As Rutherford has decided to drag Coates into this thread I’ll offer him as a prime example.Coates & Co with history is like a baby with a loaded gun. Nothing proper will come from it. The redlining scandal that rocked many areas of the USA,and for Coates work Chicago,really did happen but wasn’t everything Coates makes it to be. What is especially true of the Coates School of Historical Real Estate is that nothing in the redlining nightmare needed to cause the blight that flowed from it. Such assertions as Coates are an insult to blacks and other minorities who upkeep their properties and neighborhoods. Where Coates falls short,and I pointed it out to R before using Coates own interviews,is that blacks have as much if not more stacked up against them secondary to the nigger class than whites legacies in realty and insurance circles.

  235. blacks have as much if not more stacked up against them secondary to the nigger class than whites legacies in realty and insurance circles.

    Let me see if I’m grokking this properly. Are you saying blacks have been smacked by the same real estate shortfalls that whites have been? Or to put it differently, racism has been secondary to the overall economic woes of everyone, white and black?

    If so, it relates to a Bernie Sanders post I am contemplating.

  236. context wise the 3/5ths thing was not constructed as an “insult” to blacks nor was it really looking at black inferiority/subhuman-ness.

    I find this to be ridiculous compartmentalization. It was constructed WITHIN the context of an insult to blacks.

    ANYTHING related to slavery that did not explicitly oppose it was an insult to blacks. It’s very very simple.

  237. I wonder what El Chapoford would think if I dragged out George Wallace as documenting the historical legacy of Black America like Chapo drags out the black apologist Ta-Nehisi Coates as some expert white griever reference?

    Wallace would certainly carry a far greater degree of relevancy than the small penis Coates, whose still aggrieved that his job he’s not qualified for doesn’t also garner a fair degree of reparations to go with it.

  238. “Au contraire. What do you think Tex has said repeatedly here?”

    Yes. I’ve read what Tex and everyone else has written. Including you. My comment still obtains.

    Good luck with your crusade. There’s no meaningful discussion to be had with you. I too am out.

  239. Yup. When you back yourself into a corner sugar coating history there is no meaningful discussion to be had. I fully agree.

    Tex, how you equate Ta-Nehisi Coates to George Wallace escapes me.

  240. “Yup. When you back yourself into a corner sugar coating history there is no meaningful discussion to be had. I fully agree.”

    Hahahahahahah.

    So dumb.

  241. I may have missed it, but I didn’t notice any mention of Native Americans who did to each other and would have done to us if they had been able. Their suffering has been akin to blacks. There but for technology and organization go we.

  242. “The only valor McCain showed in captivity was his refusal to use his connections to get the hell out of there. Trump was wrong not to acknowledge that. But McCain was hardly a hero in the classic sense.” -R

    I don’t think you have the slightest clue what his captivity was like. Read the book “A Code to Keep”. Used to be mandatory reading in the Marines. Written by a dude who was a POW with McCain.

    Like the guy or not, nobody can take away the way he handled himself as a POW. Nobody. And there were a thousand dishonorable roads he could have taken.

  243. This conversation irritates me, so instead of dropping out, I will torture you with yet another video. This one has a point.
    “The joik… promotes a sense of belonging on a more personal level. Traditionally receiving one’s joik is an adolescent rite of passage… It was like getting a name if you got your own joik.” It also represents the role of the joik in building the community. By accepting a joik, one affirms one’s identity as a member of the group.

    A person who sings a joik becomes the song and represents the entire community. “Sami Culture”

    The joik was banned for years because besides being pagan the singing helped provide cultural cohesivness which helped the community survive persecution similar to what Native Americans and blacks suffered. For example, some Sami are descendents of slaves sent to North America as blacks were.

    Blacks would be more successful if they adopted the same cultural values as Sami. Imagine a black rapper uniting his/her music with a joik and becoming the community. A dishonest or violent life would dishonor the community.

  244. Rabbit I know he was tortured. Bones broken. Permanent injuries. He could have gotten out sooner but passed. I give him all due credit for that. And I further give him credit for opposing torture when he got out.

    If you define hero by the guy who jumps on a grenade to save his fellow soldiers, or who leads a battle and defeats the enemy, McCain does not qualify.

    He sacrificed for his country and Donald screwed up by not giving that the credit it deserves.

    By the way, in a subsequent news conference Donald walked it back in the weakest way imaginable.

    Now some are saying GOP candidates should boycott the Fox debate if Trump is there. Let’s see how many are THAT outraged.

  245. They will put their ears to the ground and fingers to the wind. Then, they will decide the level of outrage they will feel.

  246. “If you define hero by the guy who jumps on a grenade to save his fellow soldiers, or who leads a battle and defeats the enemy, McCain does not qualify.”

    Caitlyn Jenner. Now that’s heroic.

    Obama taking out OBL. That’s heroic.

    The attention whore that climbed the flagpole in SC. Hero.

    The semi-retard that testified about her calls with Trayvon Martin. Heroine.

    That McCain hero shit is rhetorically proximate to something. Dumbass.

  247. A man of distinguished valor or enterprise in danger, or fortitude in suffering; a prominent or central personage in any remarkable action or event; hence, a great or illustrious person.

  248. a large sandwich, usually consisting of a small loaf of bread or long roll cut in half lengthwise and containing a variety of ingredients, as meat, cheese, lettuce, and tomatoes.

  249. Couldn’t find a complete definition of the word “hero” from any of usual online dictionaries that would exclude McCain’s selfless service and suffering.

    Maybe if he were a dem.

  250. “a large sandwich” -Tigre

    Ha. Yeah…as soon as I saw Rutherford’s odd definition of hero, I just moved on. So silly.

  251. Fundamentally Transformed…imagine the pernicious shit Obama and the race pimps have dreamed up with this one:

    Obama Administration’s Racial Database Contains Your Personal Information
    http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2015/07/18/obama-administrations-racial-database-contains-your-personal-information/

    At the completion of this, Whitey needs to use it to their advantage. Want to pull federal funding? Then how about entire communities refusing to pay federal taxes? 😈

  252. Folks just come here to fight no matter what is stated. “The sky has clouds”. “Oh no, you weren’t specific enough. Were they cumulus clouds?”

    I mean c’mon!! The way I characterized heroism, particularly in the context of war, was not that outrageous or “silly”. The reason Trump is still polling high is that there is a kernel of truth to every whopper he has said lately.

    The notion that McCain was a lousy pilot/warrior has been broached here in years past. I have already fully agreed that when it comes to sacrifice and suffering the man was a hero. When it comes to being a warrior, he was not.

    I should rename the Bar and Grill “the fight club” because some of you just want to argue for the sake of arguing.

  253. I heard McCain was sleeping with his campaign manager and beat his wife.

    Romney was a tax cheat.

    Thomas is an idiot.

    Palin fucked satan.

    El Chaproford wasn’t the first to say it. MSNBC and Huffpo and Daily Kos among other reputable sources said it too. Anybody that disagrees is just arguing for the sake of arguing.

  254. Chris Rock made a similar joke about McCain in 2008 when he campaigned for Obama. “He is a war hero. He a war hero. He a war hero that got CAPTURED. There’s a lot of guys in jail that got captured. I don’t want to vote for nobody that got captured. I want to vote for the …..that got away.”

    Heroism is like porn. You know it when you see it. McCain didn’t risk his life to save others in a dramatic fashion, but he was still heroic.

    Why do we obsess on the definition of hero when real problems face us? Perhaps some of the many blacks who die in gang and other violence were heroic too.

    Once again, blacks and liberals who egg them on had best adopt another culture. They blame the Confederate flag and southern culture when in fact northerners were as racist in subtle ways. The Clinton’s New York neighborhood, for example discourages the construction of affordable housing to keep unsuitable elements out.

    I’m not suggesting blacks and others who are following their path should become nomadic reindeer herders, but they could learn a lot from the Sami, or many Hispanics who have a strong work ethic and family values. They move here because they know how lucky they are to live in the US in spite of the bigotry.

    We are not arguing for the sake of arguing. We are arguing because we are right.

  255. We are arguing because we are right.

    No james. When folks can’t concede there are different concepts of heroism and McCain fits one but does not fit the other they are arguing for the sake of arguing.

  256. “When folks can’t concede there are different concepts of heroism and McCain fits one but does not fit the other they are arguing for the sake of arguing.”

    Yeah. Don’t correct him. The term means whatever El Chapoford and MSNBC says it does. He really, really makes a great point.

    We should concede that El Chapoford can apply whatever meaning he wants to “hero” to be sure that we all don’t confuse him for somebody that fell on a grenade but rather someone that spent 5 years being tortured, it’s just arguing.

  257. Heard this morning:

    It’s a real mystery. They knew right away that the confederate flag was responsible for the shooting in Charleston. But these same people still don’t know why the shootings by Mohammod Youssuf Abdulazeezoccurred in Chattanooga. It’s a head-scratcher.

    Well we do know that he was “courageous and brave” like the attack on the DAllas police according to CNN. Since he killed marines, I reckon El Chapoford would call it “heroic.”

  258. “What ?!? ET goes to Salon? How shocking.”

    ET loves reading liberal bullshit. It’s how I know when El Chapoford mindlessly repeats it even when he denies doing so.

  259. Yes Tex, Hillary plans to “fix” that. Are you ready for her fix?

    Shrill’s fix looks suspiciously like Bammy’s fix. Woeful infrastructure. How’d that work for you in 2009, Chapo?

    How disingenuous is the Democratic Party? A super majority Democratic Congress in 2009 passed a “stimulus package” premised primarily on the idea of rebuilding America’s infrastructure. Total cost with interest north of one trillion dollars. The jobs never materialized – not shovel ready, Obama admitted.

    To make comparison, The entire Eisenhower Interstate System cost less in adjusted dollars. Yes We Can!

    Hillary Clinton is not only corrupt. She is clueless. And corrupt. Like her former community organizer boss.

  260. “If I didn’t know better I’d think Tigre was watching MoJo this morning. Scarborough has been trotting out this Franken quote.”

    I was indeed.

    He wasn’t the first but I was there for it.

  261. Since he killed marines, I reckon El Chapoford would call it “heroic.”

    Beyond stupid. I’m talking with half-wits.

    But I’ll tell you what Mr. Silly-Dilly, there are radical Islamists who do think the Chattanooga shooter was a hero.

    Maybe that’s at the core of the argument? Hero is not, as you’d like to suggest, objective. Heroes are in the eye of the beholder.

    And there are men who served their country bravely who never got honored as heroes and those who did get honored because of connections and not true bravery.

    So let’s stop this bullshit that everyone shares the same definition of hero and that only your definition is the “correct” one.

  262. It’s how I know when El Chapoford mindlessly repeats it even when he denies doing so.

    And you continue to be an asshole. It’s good there are things in life we can count on.

    I don’t read Salon ding-dong.

  263. I actually don’t argue with your Eisenhower comparison, Tex but it has nothing to do with Eisenhower being a Republican. Our country has lost something over the past 60 years. We don’t achieve like we used to.

    Another theme of Trumps that’s resonating: “enough of being losers. Let’s start winning again.”

    Just in case anyone is confused, I’m not a Trump supporter but I feel in my bones why he’s polling so well.

  264. Well, it’s the first time I’ve heard this quote from Franken. But I’m not surprised. He did pen the book “Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot”.

    Word has it that Franken canned the comedy altogether once he went to the Senate.

  265. “And you continue to be an asshole. It’s good there are things in life we can count on.

    I don’t read Salon ding-dong.”

    I’m talking about MSNBC ding-dong.

  266. “So let’s stop this bullshit that everyone shares the same definition of hero and that only your definition is the “correct” one.”

    No let’s stick with yours. Gotta drop on a grenade. . .

    or be a gay celebrity or sports figure.

    Yours is a good one. You made a fine point with it.

    Duh.

  267. One thing that always fascinates me is how we always focus on the answer and never the question that prompted it.

    Trump was talking about McCain being a POLITICAL “loser” and out of thin air, Luntz brings up McCain being a war hero. What Donald SHOULD have said was “WTF DOES HIS BEING A WAR HERO HAVE TO DO WITH THE PRICE OF TEA IN CHINA???” Luntz brought up a completely irrelevant and stupid point. The cynical side of me suspects a set up. Luntz was told by the establishment “try to trap him into saying something suicidal”.

    It reminds me of Obama calling the Cambridge police stupid. He didn’t say it out of the blue. He said it in answer to a totally off topic question by Lynn Sweet. I’ve disliked the bitch ever since.

  268. “And there are men who served their country bravely who never got honored as heroes and those who did get honored because of connections and not true bravery.”

    Really. You’re getting rhetorically proximate to Chrissy Hayes.

    “Just in case anyone is confused, I’m not a Trump supporter but I feel in my bones why he’s polling so well.”

    Yeah. Chapo just supports his comments concerning McCain.

  269. Quite the contrary, Rutherford. The 80s and 90 were one the most prosperous and innovative periods in America history. Of course, those were the days of the idea big government was over with.

    That’s when millions of you “rprogressives” took over and turned things to shit.

  270. Al Franken’s comment disgusts me.

    I’m mowing lawns right now entertaining weird fantasies of Al Franken showing up to a block party I’m at and me beating his ass.

    Which probably sounds like mental illness for anyone who doesn’t mow lawns. The mind wanders.

    What an asshole.

    Seriously, the book Code to Keep….Its a quick read and really explains what it was like. There were guys who sold out, ate steaks and snitched on their brothers.

    To any authority reading this I’m not insane and do not really mean I want to bring harm to Al Franken, so let a nigga mow lawns.

  271. You’re such an idiot. I AGREE that McCain was heroic. I don’t deny the suffering definition of heroism. All I’m saying is there are folks who can focus on one aspect of the definition and not the other.

    Two other things: Trump fucked up when he initially said “the ones” who don’t get captured are heroes. That went beyond McCain to smear all pow’s. And McCain was brilliant on MoJo this morning capitalizing on that. “He doesn’t owe me an apology, he owes our veterans an apology.” When Donald sorta walked it back he said he liked those that were captured and those who were not. But by then it was too late.

    Second, lots of folks consider McCain a supreme asshole. So he’s going to get attacks other men with his biography would not get.

  272. “Had to apologize for saying all lives matter.”

    I saw that. What a fucked up world the progressive one is. You people are SICK!

  273. And by the way, that book left me wondering. Would I sell out? Since I have no comparable experience, I couldn’t say with 100% confidence. So, I looked up to flawed guys like McCain and said to myself, he could do it, I would try to. The very essence of a hero.

  274. “I saw that. What a fucked up world the progressive one is. You people are SICK!”

    It is demented as hell.

    Now get back in your hole and atone Whitey.

  275. Now get back in your hole and atone Whitey.

    My wife complimented me on a cup of coffee I made her yesterday (Keurig, no great achievement) and I suggested I go work at Starbucks. As I hand each white patron their coffee, I advise them to check their privilege. 😊

  276. i wasn’t clear, Rutherford. When I wrote that we are right, i was referring to the cult of victimization Obama and his allies have enflamed. I agree, heroism is a hazy concept.Rabbit expressed it well. “If he could do it , I would try to.”

    The attacks on whites are a form of theft to denigrate what whites have accomplished and to steal reparations. Obama has a plan.

    This makes me mad. Rather than throw some insults about, i will bludgen you with another video, this time of my maternal and paternal ancestors. Blacks will not change their lot until they steal it from us, or they adopt a new culture. i suggest they could do worse by following the old northern European or the Hispanic models.

  277. “Check your white privilege.’ I like that. “Cheney was one of many chicken hawks. So was Clinton, only he is also an accused rapist.

  278. “As I hand each white patron their coffee, I advise them to check their privilege.”

    I thought they already did that. Based on the spineless hipsters I see lining most Starbucks. . . er. . . their office. . . I think you’d be warmly received.

    “Can’t be, Tigre. I only say what MSNBC tells me to.”

    Ummm, that’s why you’re backing away from it.

  279. Ummm, that’s why you’re backing away from it.

    Yeah I’m backing away from something you didn’t understand in the first place.

    As for the hipsters and their “office”, damn do I envy them. I can’t work like that in public places. I can’t get lost enough in my own head to forget I’m at a coffee joint.

  280. Maybe you could charge for the reminder.

    By the way Tigre, that’s one of several reasons the Starbucks experiment failed: folks were paying to be forced to have a “conversation about race”. A lot of folks were like “I just want coffee and a donut.”

  281. You are right R there are all types of definitions for a hero. Apparently heroes and courage are only in the eye of the beholder such as The Arthur Ashe Courage Award which honors those individuals whose contributions “transcend sports” and the award for this year goes to Caitlyn Jenner. Yep Bruce did transcend didn’t he !

  282. Sure thing, Chapo.

    “The only valor McCain showed in captivity was his refusal to use his connections to get the hell out of there. Trump was wrong not to acknowledge that. But McCain was hardly a hero in the classic sense.” -R

    Oh let me guess. You “stand by what you said.”

    It’s all in the eye of the beholder. Pfffft.

    From the guy that considered Obama “courageous.” Profiles in courage. Did you see that look of concern on his face. . . and everything.

  283. “Thank you Raji. You’ve proven my point. Heroism is in the eye of the beholder.”

    Yes, you’ve proved Chapo’s point.

    Jenner is a hero and McCain is not ’cause it’s all in the eye of the beholder.

    or was that “valor?”

    Either way, it’s all about of Chapo sizes ’em up.

  284. So there’s no mistake, I think Rutherford is hero for applauding Trump’s comments.

    And that’s just how I view it.

  285. The Arthur Ashe Courage Award which honors those individuals whose contributions “transcend sports” and the award for this year goes to Caitlyn Jenner.

    If that doesn’t demonstrate to depth America has sunk, I don’t what does. Besides Obama being reelected, I mean.

  286. I’ve called Obama many things, mostly complimentary, but I don’t recall “courageous” among them.

    Maybe you can ask Muffy to pull a quote for you. She’s good at that. In fact, I may replace Rabbit with her as official RL Blog Historian.

  287. And yes, I do stand by what I said. The CLASSIC hero does not get captured and then liberated later.

    The CLASSIC hero who gets captured, outwits his captors, kills a bunch of them, then frees his fellow captives and escapes with them.

    That’s a capital H hero.

  288. What about capital “V” for valor? Is that different than the dictionary definition?

    How about capital “C” for courage? That was Obama whom you said was courageous in making the heroic decision to go into Paaaakeeestan and get OBL. COURAGE. You know, in the classic sense.

    How about “S” — strength?

    or “B” — bravery?

    or “D” daring?

    or my favorite, “A” for “audacity?”

    All in the classic sense of course.

    I stand by what I said.

    Glad you found Trump’s comments about McCain gratifying.

  289. Yes, Muffy. If you can find the Rutherford “C” for courageous routine after OBL, that would be helpful.

  290. Profiles in courage:

    “No props to Obama until someone tells me why he made some kind of a courageous or difficult decision. — Tigre

    This comment from the prior thread. Sometimes I really feel like I’m talking with children.

    Do you think the decision to get bin Laden was a boolean one? It wasn’t.

    How likely is it the dude is really bin Laden?
    Do we bomb or go in on the ground?
    Do we work with Pakistan or go solo?

    These are just three questions I’ve got from watching the news. If I were a military strategist, I’d have a lot more. Obama had to be presented with all these possibilities and recommendations and then make a decision. This could have gone down well (apparently it did) or it could have been another Bay of Pigs. It would have rested on Obama regardless.

    Put aside the Obama-hate and use your thinking cap for once. 👿

    Rutherford , May 2, 2011 at 3:19 pm”

    Let’s see what else I can locate.

  291. Oh my. The whole thing was puke worthy.

    I may need to visit BiC’s place were Chapo was gushing about his brave hero Obama the terrorist slayer too.

  292. As I recall, the most “classic” hero of all time was captured, tortured and on the third day, liberated.

  293. And you call yourself a lawyer? I answered why the decision was difficult – not “a Boolean one”. I said nothing about courage.

    You need Muffy my friend. I see a comment from her later in the thread I have yet to read. Let’s see if she rescued you. 😊

  294. Bergdahl served with “honor and distinction.”

    Traitor, distinguished soldier. Potato, Potahto.

    Words have no meaning. All in the beholder.

  295. “and you call yourself a lawyer? I answered why the decision was difficult – not “a Boolean one”. I said nothing about courage.”

    No. You answered my question about “courageous.” You’ll see where that was quoted.

    In any event, you need to go back and look at the endless stream of stupidity.

    I hope you wince at the giant Obama dick sucking routine.

    You were indeed characterizing Obama’s decision as courageous.

  296. Trump next move will be to ask what’s so courageous about dying of cancer.

    ESPN and ABC are owned by Disney. ABC owns Dianne Sawyer, who got the get with Jenner. The ESPY awards show airs on ABC.

  297. “And yes, I do stand by what I said. The CLASSIC hero does not get captured and then liberated later.”

    Who is this CLASSIC hero, BTW?

  298. Trump was equating “hero” with winning.
    Rutherford is trying to be against war.

    Trump was responding to a non-sequitur which is the main reason I’m defending him. It was a dumbass interjection from Frank Luntz that Trump should have called out as dumbass. McCain’s POW status has NOTHING to do with his being a weak-ass politician who called Trump’s followers “crazies”. Trump was talking about McCain the pol and Luntz changed the subject. Trump, not being a politician, but instead a rich asshole mishandled Luntz’s curve ball.

    A pol would have had the right response for Luntz.

    I AM against war conceptually Muffy but I know reality dictates sometimes we must go to war. It should be very rare.

    McCain deserves our admiration for enduring suffering when he could have done otherwise. End of story.

  299. Bergdahl served with “honor and distinction.”

    Actually in the subsequent news conference, Trump distinguishes captured heroes from Bergdahl, a traitor.

    P.S. I repeat Bergdahl’s head was not screwed on right. He was not a traitor in the classic sense. 😊

  300. “Rutherford is trying to diminish McCain.”

    Naturally. And Republicans for hating Mexicans. And us for never letting him win one.

  301. “Words have meaning only in context. You, whose profession is to use people’s words against them should know this.”

    Grenades. Sure.

    I stand by what I said. 😆

  302. You were indeed characterizing Obama’s decision as courageous.

    As usual I was fighting back against the tide of bar patrons who called the OBL kill a nothing burger — sooner die than admit anything good could happen on Obama’s watch.

  303. Re Bergdahl while I find the man more unstable than traitorous, Obama made a bad swap. No argument there. When Obama mischaracterized Bergdahl, he was either misinformed or lying. That was not a case of “eye of the beholder”.

  304. And Republicans for hating Mexicans.

    Muffy you don’t find it at all hypocritical that the tipping point with Republicans was a McCain insult and not Trump’s calling illegal aliens rapists?

  305. “Muffy you don’t find it at all hypocritical that the tipping point with Republicans was a McCain insult and not Trump’s calling illegal aliens rapists?”

    I can’t answer that because the premise is untrue in the first place. You made your heavy observation about this ill-defined tipping point within 24 hours of Trump’s remarks about McCain.

    You’re prone to mischaracterizing the various reactions to things on occasion. Usually it’s to cover for liberal media bias. In this case it began as a way to call Republicans racist as a group.

  306. “I’m glad you’re enjoying this. You’re starting to sound delirious.”

    I’m enjoying the hell out of this because I find your point so pathetically unedifying.

    A progs determination of bravery, heroics, valor, honor etc. etc. is just twisted.

    I can’t stand McCain’s politics. But you trying to minimize his captivity and torture is pathetic. Oh I know you claim you aren’t. But you are.

    I stand by what I said.

  307. Trump is operating like a man who is used to being in a room full of people that won’t call him out. That is not surprising. But he is also very smart and excellent at making deals that profit him. He will either adapt quickly and potently to the foreign dynamics of politics or he will cut his losses, essentially filing political bankruptcy, and move on.

    The words “hero” and “brave” have become diluted in the modern lexicon. The very people we call heroes, when asked, will usually say they don’t consider themselves heroes. I prefer to refer to actions as being heroic rather than people being heroes. People are flawed and will eventually let you down.

    Having said that, my father is, was and always shall be, my hero.

  308. Rutherford, can you name someone who you consider a war hero?

    Right off the top of my head and assuming the account is accurate, John F. Kennedy.

    If I’m not mistaken, George HW Bush had a distinguished military career.

    As you’ve pointed out Muffy I ain’t a huge war fan or war buff so heroes names don’t trip off the tongue. If I gave it more thought I could come up with some others.

    U.S. Grant.

  309. “Bergdahl served with “honor and distinction.”

    That was Susan Rice and Obama. -Tigre

    It sure was.

    Fucking liars.

    Comander in Chief takes the side of a stink beard traitor all the while knowing he led to the deathes of several Americans.

    Fucking hate him.

    At first I could not believe they would insult the military, like that.

    Then I couldn’t believe they would lie knowing they would be completely busted.

    Then I realised they don’t give a flying fuck.

  310. How does getting your PT Boat run over by an enemy destroyer in the fog not equate to getting your jet shot down? Because he evaded capture?

    ET, I don’t understand the classical thing. Must have missed it in the skimming.

  311. Didn’t JFK crash a submarine?

    That was probably after JFK the “HERO” deflowered his 17 year old personal assistant. It’s amazing what imbeciles like Rutherford think passes for hero. It’s about on par with considering athletes as heroes.

    I have no doubt why Barack Obama was reelected President like I did in 2012 anymore. It’s utterly amazing how stupid people are these days. Even people who consider themselves smart because they’ve got “a college education.”

  312. DR , I use noise cancelling headphones and pipe in music from my nano while mowing. (Yes, some of James’ influence has made it on to my lawn care playlist). Sometimes when the battery runs out I turn to thoughts. It can be a great brainstorming vehicle. I’ve even unraveled some plot conundrums cutting grass. Briggs and Stratton is my muse!

  313. You’re prone to mischaracterizing the various reactions to things on occasion. Usually it’s to cover for liberal media bias. In this case it began as a way to call Republicans racist as a group.

    I think you’re tone deaf on this one. Not one single candidate claimed Trump “unfit to be commander-in-chief” when he broad brushed illegal immigrants as criminals and rapists. But when McCain was insulted, Trump was deemed unfit. That’s not my mischaracterization, that’s the truth.

    What I have said in the past few weeks, repeatedly, is that the press twisted Trump’s comments about ILLEGAL immigrants to be about all Mexican immigrants. To that extent, the press mischaracterized him.

  314. How does getting your PT Boat run over by an enemy destroyer in the fog not equate to getting your jet shot down?

    I thought Kennedy was credited with saving the lives of crew members. I’ll have to go back to wiki and see if I have the story wrong.

    ET, I don’t understand the classical thing. Must have missed it in the skimming.

    The readers digest version is Tigre’s stubborn refusal to acknowledge heroism comes in different forms.

  315. According to Wiki Kennedy saved the life of at least one crew member by towing his badly burned body through the water.

    As for Tex’s silly comment about JFK’s fucking habits, those are most certainly comparable to McCain so I really don’t think you want to go there.

    So unless the PT-109 story is bs, JFK was a war hero.

  316. You know another word that has become diluted in the modern lexicon? Bigotry.

    “And look at our hypocrisy. Trump insults Mexicans (supposedly) and gets mild rebuke from his opponents. He insults a POW and OMG the sky is falling.”

    ^This^ is your mischaracterization.

    Nothing but a thinly veiled accusation of bigotry, brought to us by your own thinly veiled bigotry that provides you with your rigid conclusions constantly in search of supporting evidence.

    I’m not going to run around chasing you and your goalposts this time, R. The range of responses from Bush, Rubio, and Perry (among the strongest) to Cristie and Huckabee (among the weakest) all went along the same lines that Trump was out of line with his remarks on some of the kinds of people immigrating illegally from Mexico. Ironically I think only Cruz proved to be racist against Mexicans on that one.

    So, Perry’s racheted his remarks up from “does not represent the Republican party” to “unfit to lead the military.” Ergo, racism.

  317. As for Tex’s silly comment about JFK’s fucking habits, those are most certainly comparable to McCain so I really don’t think you want to go there.

    I think this comment defines you, Chapo. I really do. Now, I’m no fan of John McCain – but it has nothing to do for or against his bravery. He was brave. I just don’t think that in and of itself makes one qualified to be a national leader. There is a second component called wisdom that McCain lacks. Perhaps a third called humility. Like Obama and his multitude of weaknesses, like McCain a limited man. And like my opinion, like JFK – a product of a Nazi loving bastard, thug and thief who literally bought a national election.

    But for you to minimize this act, rape by another name of a young woman closer to girl, says loads about your character or lack thereof, your wisdom or lack thereof, and you uncanny ability to compartmentalize the most egregious of acts as unimportant.

    Do you honestly think serial philandering while living in the White House is nothing to get in a sniff over? That it doesn’t marginalize not just the man but the position as leader? That’s at the very least, the behavior so reckless to disqualify someone as point man of the free world?

    You’ve got to be kidding me? Tell me you’re kidding and you’re really not this empty?

  318. “The readers digest version is Tigre’s stubborn refusal to acknowledge heroism comes in different forms.”

    You can go back and look. Unless you jump on a grenade or some stupid Chapo decides is worthy of different praise, it’s not “CLASSIC” heroism. It’s something else that Rutherford imagines ot to be. Probably a teevee character.

    So unless your dad jumped on a grenade, whatever Trump said about McCain also defines your dad.

    That’s how this works for Rutherford. There’s CLASSIC to Rutherford and something else that is lesser — generally reserved for conservatives.

    Don’t bother with the dictionary. That would provide a definition that would include your dad. But it also means the dumbass can’t call McCain’s stay at he Hanoi Hilton an example of “heroism.” So the dictionary is out. He told me so without looking himself. Because. . . and stuff.

    BTW, I stand by what I’ve written.

    And as Rutherford so articulately put it: “whatever.”

  319. “So unless the PT-109 story is bs, JFK was a war hero.”

    Exhibit “A.”

    No grenade. No charge into battle. Something different. Like JFK is a dem. Didn’t do the torture tour but he did something worthy of Rutherford’s admiration that he just learned about on Wikipedia.

  320. Tex where is this JFK rape you’re talking about? When I went looking for details on PT-109 I read he had an affair that got him transferred. This was before the PT-109 incident. Now I’ll gladly go google “JFK rape” to see what I find but at this point, I don’t know what you’re talking about.

    As for philandering, both JFK and McCain were infamous for their sexual exploits. McCain couldn’t even keep up an illusion, leaving his disfigured wife for a younger model. To his minimal credit I have read he regrets his old ways.

    You get no argument from me that Kennedy was a scumbag. All I’m saying is don’t use McCain as the moral yardstick against which to measure him.

    If I had to name the POTUS with the most integrity over my lifetime, and I’m just coming to this realization now, it would be George Herbert Walker Bush.

  321. Didn’t do the torture tour but he did something worthy of Rutherford’s admiration that he just learned about on Wikipedia.

    You’re such an ass. You can’t be an American and not have heard of PT-109. Just cos I had to check the details doesn’t mean squat. I already knew he had saved crew. I went to wiki to check the specifics.

    You admire McCain but not JFK. Why? Cos he’s a Dem?

  322. If I had to name the POTUS with the most integrity over my lifetime, and I’m just coming to this realization now, it would be George Herbert Walker Bush.

    No shit? 😯 Man, that is one scary thought. Talk about one of the most connected to the dark world. Mr. ‘New World Order’, himself. I guess the word integrity is subject to interpretation too. Sheesh.

    I know how you feel about WND, but here you go anyway. It’s all been well hashed out.

    http://www.wnd.com/2013/09/did-george-h-w-bush-witness-jfk-assassination/

  323. “When did I say McCain had no valor? You’re drinking silly sauce tonight. WTF is wrong with you?”

    “The only valor McCain showed in captivity was his refusal to use his connections to get the hell out of there.” -R.

  324. As a Navy vet, I’m pretty sure I would have done what JFK did after the ship got nailed. I hope I would.

    Just doesn’t compare to what McCain did, in my opinion. But hey, I’m cool with JFK getting respected for his WW2 service.

  325. The problem with Rutherford on this one isn’t completely partisan, although it appears that way.

    We are seeing Belky rear his ugly mop head, again.

    He can’t at all grasp 5 years of being sadistically tortured by the Gooks. Sure, he’s faking it when he tells us the only thing McCain did was elect to stay. But he’s not getting it. The “holy shit” bell isn’t going off in his head.

    Abstract Eddy.

  326. “The only valor McCain showed in captivity was his refusal to use his connections to get the hell out of there.” -R.

    Yes hence he showed valor. Do you read fucking English?

  327. The wholly shit bell went off. I heard it.

    McCain’s own tale of his torture and the confession he recorded for the North Vietnamese comes largely from his book Faith of My Fathers, in which he describes his shame at cooperating with the enemy. But some of McCain’s fellow prisoners, who were tortured and did not collaborate, have challenged his narrative, expressing their belief that McCain was not physically abused at all and that he was well treated. Others who were also in the prison camp dispute that claim. But by McCain’s own account he may have begun cooperating with the North Vietnamese within three days of his capture and was fully on board within two weeks, providing specific intelligence on his aircraft carrier, its aircraft, and the support vessels attached to it, information that was later featured in North Vietnamese radio broadcasts. One account that appeared on a wire service entitled “PW Songbird is Pilot Son of Admiral” reported that McCain may have gone beyond an acceptable level of collaboration in assisting the psychological warfare offensives aimed at American servicemen: “The broadcast was beamed to American servicemen in South Vietnam as a part of a propaganda series attempting to counter charges by U.S. Defense Secretary Melvin Laird that American prisoners are being mistreated in North Vietnam.”

    Douglas Valentine, in a 2008 article in Counterpunch, describes how “On one occasion, General Vo Nguyen Giap, the top Vietnamese commander and a nationalist celebrity of the time, personally interviewed McCain. His compliance during this command performance was a moment of affirmation for the Vietnamese. His Vietnamese handlers thereafter used him regularly as prop at meetings with foreign delegations.”

    It has also been claimed by retired Army Colonel Earl Hopper, admittedly without any corroborating evidence apart from what might be contained in inaccessible Pentagon files, that “McCain told his North Vietnamese captors, highly classified information, the most important of which was the package routes, which were routes used to bomb North Vietnam. He gave in detail the altitude they were flying, the direction, if they made a turn… he gave them what primary targets the United States was interested in…the information McCain provided allowed the North Vietnamese to adjust their air-defenses. As result…the US lost sixty percent more aircraft and in 1968 [and] called off the bombing of North Vietnam, because of the information McCain had given to them.”

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/john-mccain-war-hero-or-something-less/5337240

  328. The problem is, Chapo, I don’t believe you recognize real heroism. You parrot what you hear from limited sources and limited resources. You picked JFK out of thin air because (1) He’s a Democrat; (2) He served in WWII; (3) He’s a well known historical figure with a record of service.

    I’m not here to debate the merits of JFK’s heroism. Anybody that served and saw combat in any way and fought gallantly in combat or supporting role is a hero in my book, no matter the war. The fact you can’t call Chris Kyle a hero is telling, being that the very thing you would credit JFK as hero, Chris Kyle probably exceeded the personal danger and competence of JFK by a hundred fold.

    This is a Navy Seal that was so highly thought of by the people he served with, referred to Kyle as “legend.”

    This is why were you most likely would refer to Obama as a hero, I would call Obama a rank coward. Where you would credit Obama with the UBL kill, I would credit the intelligence and Navy Seals. It’s the very reason Obama’s choice and means of death is a drone – there’s little personal political risk, which is really all that motivates Obama and the main reason the serving military disdains the punk. Obama is a coward that understands nothing of the military.

    It’s also the reason I carry such little respect for McCain, other than what I perceive abject stupidity. McCain is the Republican equivalent of the Black Congressional Congress in my book. McCain of all people should know waterboarding, especially the way the interrogation conducted and who it was conducted upon, is in no way or degree equivalent to what the Viet Cong did to McCain and his cohorts, unless McCain would like to self-identify with Khalid Sheik Mohammed, mastermind of the WTC. The false equivalency is so transparent, it’s transparently phony.

  329. Tex I thought you were referring to pre-presidential rape. JFK’s sexual exploits as POTUS are hardly new news. Ms. Alford seems like the Monica Lewinsky of her day.

    So nothing new. JFK was a scumbag.

  330. Tex I find it odd that you ignored that I cited both Bush and Grant as war heroes, both Republicans. And truthfully I worked my way backward to JFK. When Muffy asked the question my first thought was “what heroic war stories have I heard of?” Then PT-109 popped in my head. I thought of the story before I thought of the man.

  331. R, I read the book years ago, but if I recall, after their ship was crushed, he got his men to an atoll. They hid during the day and then at night he would walk out on the coral, risking capture or death, with a light to try and signal a rescue. He would come back in before dawn, cut up and exhausted. This went on for days before they were rescued. I don’t know if this is classical heroism, neo-modern heroism, just plain heroism or a heroic act by an otherwise flawed individual. But in my estimation, it sounds like something McCain would also have done. Trump, not so much.

  332. Went looking to see if Trump served. Found this …

    Young men with access to friendly family physicians had this advantage at the time in dealing with draft physicals. Lower-income individuals, with no doctor but health issues bigger than bone spurs, could find themselves approved for military service.
    POLITICO asked a Trump spokesperson Saturday about such a letter but the only response as of Sunday afternoon was the more general campaign statement.
    “Many years later, Mr. Trump was responsible for the building of the beautiful Vietnam War Memorial in lower Manhattan, for which he contributed a tremendous sum of money,” that statement concludes. “He was also responsible for bringing back the New York City Memorial Day parade in 1995, after our military was embarrassed by the previous year’s parade where almost nobody showed up. Mr. Trump’s parade was one of the largest parades ever held. Today, he remains committed to helping and honoring all of our Veterans.”
    Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/07/donald-trump-evades-specifics-on-his-draft-deferment-120330.html#ixzz3gVe0iCok

    All those veterans that aren’t named John McCain apparently. This whole thing just makes Trump look like a chicken hawk punk ass fuck. But he did pay for a memorial and a parade. What a swell guy.

    And McCain isn’t even running against him. What’s the point?

  333. Dear Abby Tigre, (or anyone else)

    How do you cut and paste a picture? I can do a video, but when I try with a single frame, it just wants to show the link, not the photo.
    – Helpless in Silicon Valley

  334. “Yes hence he showed valor. Do you read fucking English?”

    Holy fuck.

    Like arguing with a child. You don’t even stand behind what you said. 😆

    Okay Chapo. That was his “valor?”

    Whatever. 😆 😆

  335. I mean “only valor.”

    Thor, I just right click and copy. But if the extension doesn’t end in .jpg it doesn’t embed. So go all the way to the source.

  336. “Tigre, my JFK comment was directed at Tex.”

    No it isn’t. You quoted me then made your dumb comment.

    Don’t you read fucking English?

  337. JFK’s only valor was not using his family connections to avoid the war.

    Obama’s only valor was. . . hmm. . . posing for a photo in the situation room while men whose “only valor” was risking their lives to take out OBL. Your version of “courage.”

    You don’t know what the term valor means, do you? Or did you mean McCain’s “only CLASSIC valor?”

  338. Trump is a reality teevee star who is taking advantage of a political climate drenched in lies and politically correct discourse. So, he is riding a wave of populism. Anti hero.

    Ever since Obama won, this Republic has been turning into American Idol. Most the country is on the take and ignorant. Plus, intellectually lazy hipsters that are motivated by fads and feelings are voting.

    Sad times in the USA.

    This country is doomed.

  339. “JFK’s only valor was not using his family connections to avoid the war.”

    Checkmate.

    It’s so nice of uncle Tigre to play chess with the boy.

  340. Simo Hayha was a Finish farmer and hunter who fought in the Winter War. Soviets called him the White Death because he killed over five hundred men in a few months, the most documented kills in a modern major war.

    The Soviet Army created a special detatchment to kill Hayha, and they finally blew off half of his face. He survived and lived to the age of 96. He said he was no hero. He was merely following orders and he was a good shot.

  341. I find this to be ridiculous compartmentalization. It was constructed WITHIN the context of an insult to blacks.

    ANYTHING related to slavery that did not explicitly oppose it was an insult to blacks. It’s very very simple.

    So I’ve been stewing on this for a few days and I’m still fuming at its idiocy.I confess to suffering synaptic explosions when people choose to call objective historical observations “compartmentalization”. That’s a phony fucking word made up by ignorant people who want their view to be the one and only. That’s the bitch about objective and brutally honest history though,it defies feelings and revision. Rutherford you’re a feelings guy and facts need not apply in your world and that’s a damn sad thing.

    Not only do I have history on my side I have current science that shows the notion of 200+ years of “insult” to blacks is nothing but the weakest crutch constructed by the weak minded and their evil modern day oppressors. The “legacy of slavery” gig is a mythical fabrication used by blacks to excuse their failures and used by (most typically) the left leaning politicians who try to control blacks like they were some kind of pet,or more honestly the modern day equivalent to slaves down on the Plantation.

    Redlining is a great example. Why is the practice from the middle of the 20th century is so fervently embraced by supporters of the insult and racism crowd? Where is Coates et al outrage over urban renewal and public housing? Where is Coates et al regards how some blacks walk the line and maintain property and community whilst the nigger class runs amok?

    Use all the crutches you want Rutherford but blacks in America TODAY are not victims of an insult or a legacy of slavery. They are victims of slovenly habits,acceptance of vices and the modern day plantation run by folks like Obama,Sanders,Clinton,Schumer and DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD….

  342. Hero,heroism etc is subjective,something that resides in the eyes and minds of the onlooker not the doer. When the view reaches a certain viral level the doer is placed on a pedestal,often with the persons reluctance.
    Because different groups can do the looking we as a collective demean the true value of the concept.

  343. This Tahesi Coates (sp) is a garden variety, small brained, low browed race hustler with a pen. He’s one of the few left still trying to justify reparations. I don’t think even Chapo believes half the shit Coates pens.

    But like Toure’ before him, Rutherford kind of personalizes Coates as something he would like to be.

  344. “When the view reaches a certain viral level the doer is placed on a pedestal,often with the persons reluctance.”

    I agree.

    Bruce Jenner is pleased to be labeled hero.

    McCain himself said that he does not.

    Not that you are saying otherwise, but the observation irrelevant to Rutherford’s thinly-veiled efforts to minimize McCain’s service and sacrifice because that’s how he rolls.

  345. But in my estimation, it sounds like something McCain would also have done. Trump, not so much.

    I can definitely agree with that Thor.

    One of the things I’ve said repeatedly about McCain is when I’m ready to write him off he does something admirable and surprises me. When he told that crackpot that Obama is not “an Arab” back in 2008, it was a shining moment of integrity that would probably be hard to find among the current crop of contenders.

  346. Chapo, baby! I see where 3 million more children are living in poverty under Benevolent Barack than were living in poverty the worst day of Bush. Seven years, gringo. Seven years to do something. Nada. Barack has failed the poor miserably. Yes We Can!

    This one is for you, Chapo; your new messiah awaits!

  347. “Yes hence he showed valor. Do you read fucking English?”
    Holy fuck.
    Like arguing with a child.

    What in Gods name is wrong with you? Honestly do you really do your lawyer thang like this?

    “The only way in which he showed valor…” concedes that he showed valor. Does it imply there are other, perhaps more dramatic ways to show valor? Yes. But you cannot read what I wrote and say that I stated McCain showed NO valor when clearly I said he did.

    Dammit man! Put down the pipe!

  348. “Tigre, my JFK comment was directed at Tex.”
    No it isn’t. You quoted me then made your dumb comment.
    Don’t you read fucking English?

    I’m lost. I thought Tex brought up the rape.

  349. So, he is riding a wave of populism.

    Rabbit for starters, the polling is flawed. Trump has a sizable lead in the polls but when voters are specifically asked if they would vote for Trump for POTUS the majority say no.

    The polls most likely ask “who do you like best” not “who do you want to be the next POTUS?”

  350. Checkmate.
    It’s so nice of uncle Tigre to play chess with the boy.

    Checkmate my ass. “Only” downplayed what McCain did. It did not deny it which is what Tigre said I did.

    So we’ve got a lawyer who can’t argue his way out of a paper bag and a teacher who reads what he wants to read instead of what was written. What a winning team!!

    As Rabbit said earlier, if the patrons are representative of America “we’re doomed”.

  351. “Dammit man! Put down the pipe!”

    Rutherford, why don’t you state things honestly for fuck’s sake.

    Every fucking person on here knows what you were saying.

    Grow up. You’re just playing games. And you ain’t fooling anybody.

  352. “I’m lost. I thought Tex brought up the rape.”

    Here it is in its entirety dumbfuck:

    “Didn’t do the torture tour but he did something worthy of Rutherford’s admiration that he just learned about on Wikipedia.

    You’re such an ass. You can’t be an American and not have heard of PT-109. Just cos I had to check the details doesn’t mean squat. I already knew he had saved crew. I went to wiki to check the specifics.

    You admire McCain but not JFK. Why? Cos he’s a Dem?

    Rutherford , July 20, 2015 at 10:23 pm”

    You’re addressing me, you moron.

  353. Hero,heroism etc is subjective,something that resides in the eyes and minds of the onlooker not the doer.

    Sounds a lot like what I said earlier in the thread. Now that Alfie has said it, maybe it will get some traction. 😐

  354. “Only” downplayed what McCain did. It did not deny it which is what Tigre said I did.”

    Like an argument with a 5 year old.

    “That’s not what I meant. I said I hated him. I didn’t say I didn’t like him.”

  355. “Sounds a lot like what I said earlier in the thread. Now that Alfie has said it, maybe it will get some traction.”

    Not even close to what you were saying.

  356. Alfie you’ve made an unwarranted logical leap. My argument is not about making history an excuse for today although that can certainly be another discussion.

    My argument is that we should not divorce historical events from their context. The fact that blacks were steered away from certain neighborhoods or tricked into BS mortgage agreements has NOTHING to do with blacks tolerating crime ridden neighborhoods. But it remains an historical fact that rightfully fuels black rage.

    Where you and I agree, I think, is on how that black rage should be channeled: commitment to education, excellence and thriving neighborhoods.

  357. I don’t think hero or valor can be used in the same sentence with McCain, classic or not. Souless; warmonger; suckup are synonyms .

  358. “I don’t think hero or valor can be used in the same sentence with McCain, classic or not. Souless; warmonger; suckup are synonyms .”

    Then you and Rutherford agree. It’s why he posted his link to that pitiful blog post.

    Now MSNBC is climbing on Trump’s comments and Rutherford wishes he had expressed something different.

  359. Tex you need to get off the Toure crack pipe. I have never liked the man and I wrote an entire post saying so.

    As for Coates, I give him credit for backing up his disdain with historical fact. I further give him credit for not singling out the South for his gripes. Nor is he particularly partisan, for example, pointing out how FDR New Deal programs were stacked against blacks.

    I do wish the man were a happier warrior. His demeanor is so glum it’s hard for me to watch him in large doses.

  360. Not even close to what you were saying.

    Find the quote dingaling. I said heroism is subjective and in the eyes of the beholder. Those very words. And as I recall, Raji agreed with me. Of course, Raji actually reads what I write.

  361. The only part of Poolman’s analysis that puzzles me is how the dumbest least competent pilot in the Navy could have all these secrets vital to North Vietnam.

  362. John Kasich’s announcement speech today brought a tear to my eye quite literally. I sense true compassion.

    Reason enough for none of you to support him. 😊

  363. 😆 The Toure’ crack pipe, hey? Oh, for a short time, you were smitten. He even looks like you, sounds like you, reads like you. He’s a happy brotha.

    Historical facts and Coates don’t belong in the same sentence. Coates is as factual as Densico. Facts we go looking for. That Coates is one of the media’s true hustlers.

  364. The only part of Poolman’s analysis that puzzles me is how the dumbest least competent pilot in the Navy could have all these secrets vital to North Vietnam.

    I never said McCain was dumb. Nor did I say he was the least competent pilot. I’m thinking more like spoiled and irresponsible. He’d already crashed 4 jets. Prudent?

    Pilots have certain knowledge and based on their rank, unit, and mission, are trusted with more than the average enlisted. Surely you’ve seen war movies where officers were prized over regular soldier? McCain was from admiral stock, which means clout not afforded the average joe. He was a ‘prize’ in the eyes of his captors. Have you no knowledge of how the military works? It’s top down by design with the top pretty embedded.

  365. Well Tex I want to congratulate you for living this long because I realized something tonight.

    Donald Trump is the Tex Taylor of the presidential race and Tex lived to see it. Bravo!

  366. Donald Trump is the Tex Taylor of the presidential race and Tex lived to see it. Bravo!

    😆 Hey, Chapo Toure’! I’ve got better hair, less money and an even bigger mouth. 😉 Let’s give credit where credit is due.

  367. “John Kasich’s announcement speech today brought a tear to my eye quite literally. I sense true compassion.

    Reason enough for none of you to support him.”

    I will not support any candidate in any party that does not at least claim s/he plans to return Constitutional power to Congress. The Executive branch is a bigger threat to the US right now than any foreign entity.

  368. “Find the quote dingaling.”

    I don’t need to. I remember. You need read what Alfie wrote, again, without looking for validation of your stupid point but what was meant.

    Rutherford’s Ladder:

    Say something ignorant/stupid
    Get called out on it
    Realize it was stupid
    pretend you said/meant something different
    argue semantics until blue in the face
    buy into own bullshit
    believe revised version is profound
    find anything to validate any aspect of made up version validation from any source
    Think no one sees it
    declare victory

    This thread was a double-header.

    The 3/5ths routine was CLASSIC.

  369. “Donald Trump is the Tex Taylor of the presidential race and Tex lived to see it. Bravo!”

    You’re wrong.

    Donald Trump is simply an amplified version of Barack Obama. Your president has been trolling half of this country for almost 8 years, now. He has called out Congressmen–while speaking in Congress. He has called out Supreme Court judges–on national TV. He has continually told millions of Americans to fuck off, even after he vowed to be president to us all. And you’ve cheered him on for doing it.

    Trump is really just doing the same thing–just more overtly and with less political correctness.

    Donald Trump is the new political reality. You can thank Obama for that.

  370. Now Huck, be careful. You’ll bust Chapoford’s image of me. 🙂

    It’s obvious why Trump has struck a cord with so many – even me to a degree. I don’t care for Trump personally, find he’s a blowhard, a narcissist, incredibly overrated, a self-aggrandizer, and a phony. But i appreciate Trump brings a freshness to candor, even if I disagree with his generalization of the border, the fact he mentioned our Vets are treated like crap even if McCain was unnecessary to the discussion, the reinforcement to call the media liars, etc…

    There’s a major bit of truth to all of that.

    No, I don’t find Trump a legitimate Presidential candidate. But if Trump can teach some Republicans to relocated their balls, to knock of the pandering and mealy-mouth routine, and make the attempt to act like leaders and not soft-bellied, self-serving politicians, then power to Trump. He will have done all of us a favor.

  371. Let’s say just for shits and giggles that the Rutherford Ladder is accurate. It’s a lot more sophisticated than:

    Tigre’s Ladder:
    First oppose whatever R says.
    Nitpick a word or two.
    Rely on dictionary to support a verbal argument devoid of any context.
    Make a reference to MSNBC.
    Call opponent a child.
    Deny what was clearly stated by opponent.
    Call opponent a child.
    Make another reference to MSNBC.
    Death to America.

  372. Trump’s MO is reflexive insult. The Don Rickles of politics. My fav recent example: an Iowa paper disses Trump and he insults their circulation.

    Today he shared Lindsey Graham’s cell phone number with a packed crowd. Reality has been flipped on its head.

  373. “Trump’s MO is reflexive insult.”

    Yes, as I said. He’s a louder Obama.

    Perhaps you’ve never noticed what an actual asshole Barack Obama is. I don’t mean that in the political sense–but in the personal sense. He’s a fucking asshole. I suspect that’s gone under your radar because you agree with him when he does it.

  374. Well you can predict my response Huck but I don’t think Obama was as big an asshole in the beginning as he is now — and I think this is his reaction to the brick wall he encountered from the very beginning. Lacking LBJ’s experience and political finesse, he could not handle it well.

  375. Rutherford , July 22, 2015 at 12:09 am

    A classic example of the “Devil’s Advocate” and a damn good job he does of it.

  376. A CLASSIC example of pandering.

    Alfie is perturbed because he mistakenly thinks that Rutherford means what he says rather than recognizing it’s bullshit to cover for his ignorance. Rutherford thought the 3/5 compromise was a civil war era legislative act of discrimination imposed by those racist Southerners.

    The Haaaarvard grad won’t admit that he never cracked a history book and is loathe to read anything in print to learn now. He needs spoon fed political and social commentary to hold his attention. That is why we see him run to Wikipedia to first learn what the 3/5 compromise was about followed by the lie that it confirmed what he knew — even though it of course didn’t or the dumb confederate flag connection wouldn’t have been thrown out there.

    Called on it, he embarks on the self-created fiction that he meant what he said because he was thinking on a deeper level about our racist past. And Alfie comes along and steps in it believing Rutherford is being intellectually honest in his illogical explanations.

    And so it goes.

    McCain’s “only act of Valor” — Trump’s refrain that delighted Rutherford’s sense of moral superiority to an evil republican regardless of his sacrifice — becomes a well-tossed string of word salad about heroism (not to be confused with “valor” — but let’s not let definitions get in the way) meaning something about grenades and winning battles rather than selfless and stoic sacrifice. Not the perceptions of the one labeled hero (doer) visa vis those evaluating (observer) the point Alfie was making.

    No. Rutherford, like the passage from Humpty Dumpty, is going for the “words mean what I say they mean” and since they’re subjective, “I don’t need no dictionary.” The lack of popular support of his McCain bullshit a/k/a the “holy shit alarm” from his trusted teevee spokespersons means he again said something different from what he said.

    You’ve gained his approval Raji. Good work. You will note the search for validation from any source being on the 8th and 9th rungs of Rutherford’s Ladder.

  377. “I think this is his reaction to the brick wall he encountered from the very beginning.”

    That would explain being an asshole to politicians. But he clearly enjoys trolling ANYONE who disagrees with him.

    For example…he lit up the White House with rainbows after the SCOTUS decision on gay marriage, even though it was just a couple years ago that he was on record as opposing what it would eventually rule. So he was not all that emotionally or morally invested in that issue. There was no reason for him to rainbow the White House—except that he wanted to shove it in the face of the 1/2 of the country who is against it.

    He takes EVERY opposition personal–even if it comes from the man on the street.

    “Lacking LBJ’s experience and political finesse, he could not handle it well.”

    What he lacks is character.

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