If I’m Not Me Den Who Da Hell Am I?

Arnold’s character in “Total Recall” isn’t the only one having an identity crisis lately. Two recent news stories with preposterous protagonists prompt a more serious discussion of identity. I can already hear my conservative friends throwing up their hands bemoaning another shallow story made deep by navel gazing liberals. Still I thought I’d take a stab at analyzing gender and racial confusion.

When is a Man a Man?

My earliest “exposure” to the transgender issue was as a kid reading MAD Magazine. In the letters to the editor was a picture of a horse accompanied by a letter from a reader claiming to be a horse born in a human’s body.

I may be wrong but I think I can dispense with this one pretty easily. Unlike race, gender has some reasonably objective markers that apply in all but the rarest of cases. There are babies who are born with ambiguous genitalia or chromosomal anomalies where a well-intentioned medical community may assign the wrong gender to the child. The potential for emotional trouble later in life is understandable and biologically explainable.

The recent case of former Olympic champ and recent reality show spectacle Bruce Jenner is NOT in that explainable category. His urge to transform himself into Caitlyn has, to my knowledge, no biological basis. So what are we to make of it? Normally, I would say it is none of our business. But since Caitlyn decided to pose for Vanity Fair and do interviews about her journey, it’s fair game for assessment. To my shock, the most honest and accurate assessment so far has come from that conservative lightening rod Ann Coulter.

If it’s real, it is a mental illness and I don’t think we should be celebrating and laughing about it.

Mental illness in our society is a bigger taboo than artificially growing breasts and calling yourself a woman. For all I know, the proper treatment for Bruce Jenner’s psychiatric problem may very well be “gender reassignment”. Should Jenner be mocked for his decision? Of course not. But the reason we don’t mock him is not because he is now a woman. It is because it is wrong to mock the mentally ill. And just because Jenner has found a treatment that helps him get on with his life does not mean we must join him in his delusion. We respectfully call him by his new chosen name, Caitlyn just as we call Vincent Furnier, Alice Cooper, and we wish him the best of luck in this new chapter of his life. If we want to watch him on TV or read about him, we can do that too. However, he is a man. He was born a man and he will die a man and for us to say otherwise makes us mentally ill too.

What Does it Mean to be Black?

Unlike gender, race is a bit trickier proposition to tackle. The primary reason is that race does not exist in the physical world. There is no blood test that identifies you as a black man or a white man. Race is a social construct used to place people within a caste. It would be easier to define race if we could just go by skin color. Pick a hue as a dividing line and say, everybody darker is black and everybody lighter is white. But it doesn’t work that way. Race is defined by a person’s history and by their associations.

Rachel Dolezal, the former head of the Spokane chapter of the NAACP is as mentally unstable as Bruce Jenner. She is a white woman who has embraced “black culture” (whatever that is) so completely that she has convinced herself she is black. I frankly don’t understand why any black would be angry with her about it. I don’t think she is mean-spirited. I think she is whack. Yet, as I said at the beginning of this essay, her preposterous case brings to the fore an interesting conversation about “blackness”.

I am a light-skinned black man. I am light enough to pass and quite frankly I inadvertently do so in my daily life. My mom, too dark to pass, used to tell me that I needed to tell everyone with whom I had anything beyond a simple acquaintance, that I was black. I used to joke with her “what do you want me to do, wear a button ‘Hi, I’m Rutherford and I’m black'”? My friends all know I am black. Many blacks “spot me” as black because they are more attuned to light-skinned blacks and they look for other physical features beyond skin color. The cashier at the grocery store probably doesn’t know I’m black.

But what does it mean for me to be black? It clearly isn’t skin color. We’ve already hit that. Is it culture? James Brown records were not allowed in my home growing up because my parents considered him an ignorant fool. I grew up listening to the Partridge Family and later Creedence Clearwater Revival, the Rolling Stones, Alice Cooper (yeah, him again). My current favorites are R.E.M., Green Day and the Cars. Some of the folks who frequent The Bar and Grill joke with me, “are you SURE you are black?” I can count on one hand the number of times my mother cooked “soul food”.

So is it about culture? I’m not sure it is. For me being black simply meant that my parents “qualified” as black in our society. My mother was the descendant of slaves. My father was the descendant of West Indians. Somewhere in my family tree are white folks which lends me my skin color. My mother used to say to me “why don’t you stop thinking about it and just tell everybody you’re white?” But to do that meant passing my mother off as the maid or caretaker or denying my relationship with my dad. That simply wouldn’t do. Music, food or TV preferences is not what made me black. In short what made me black was seeing a politician come to our front door looking for votes. He saw my mother and asked to see “the lady of the house”. Really? I was black because my family, and therefore I, did not “belong” in that neighborhood according to this horses ass of a vote-seeker. White families were not treated that way. THAT is the defining difference about being black in America. It isn’t culture. It isn’t even skin color (although that is a “marker”). It is caste and knowing where you are in that caste system.

Which gets us back to Rachel Dolezal. Rachel grew up with adopted black siblings. I have no doubt that influenced her view of race. I used to chuckle that my able-bodied mother, raising me as a disabled son, took on disability herself. She was sensitive to sudden downgrades or upgrades in a sidewalk or bumps in  a walking path over which I might trip. “Watch out here Rutherford, it gets a bit steep here,” she would say. In her own way she was as physically disabled as I was. She saw the world through my eyes. This intense identification with me did not make her, in fact, disabled. But the empathy was strong. So, I could not fault Rachel Dolezal embracing “blackness” because her life experiences gave her strong empathy. It is her belief that she is in fact black that makes her a candidate for the rubber room.

And one more thing before I conclude this amble down the race/gender road. Could we please dispose of that silly stupid euphemism “African-American”? African-American is not a substitute for “black”. My dad was black. He was not African in any way, American or otherwise. And to hammer home the point, he used to be preoccupied with a perception (his at least) that West Indians thought themselves “better” than their black counterparts with African roots. This is why he literally forbade me from telling anyone that his parents were from Barbados. He didn’t want to be viewed as “putting on airs” or trying to separate himself from other blacks. As a young man, interested in acting, he showed up for a casting call and was referred to by the casting director as “the black guy”. His lack of African heritage didn’t keep him from getting labeled “the black guy”. And while we’re at it, why is Guido called an Italian-American and Vaclav called a Polish-American, with references to the country their ancestors hailed from but blacks get called African-American? Africa is not a country. We can’t do better than that? How about Kenyan-American? How about Ethiopian-American? Maybe Nigerian-American? It’s not gonna happen because that is not what being black is about in this country. It’s about being associated, however tangentially, with folks who were brought here from the African CONTINENT and enslaved. No further granulation is necessary. So folks, let’s stop the African-American foolishness and embrace our BLACKNESS, like Rachel Dolezal!

What do you think? The bar is open.

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1,000 thoughts on “If I’m Not Me Den Who Da Hell Am I?

  1. We are genetically distinctive. Our identities are more complex. Each of us comes from a foreign culture with its own ideocyncronities and physical features. Every one of us carries cultural identities and world views which our ancestors gave us. However, we are no longer the people who first came here. We have become a new culture. We are Americans. We have so intermingled we are different from our ancestors who also traded genes with their neighbors before they moved here. We have created new identities for ourselves.

    If you don’t believe me visit or move to the country of your origins. You will not fit in without change because you are different from where you started. You are an American.

  2. I have a different take on what gets pushed in the public square knowing who owns the media. These are not random and benign acts fostered upon us. The intentional devolution of mankind has become more than obvious to me over the years.

    The ‘climax’ of the Bruce Jenner ‘transition’ from male to shemale makes clear once again that these are not random events. It’s a Psychodrama, with cultural, political impact.

    Planners behind the scenes cause the Psychodramas – just as the Archons sponsored the Greek ampitheater plays in Athens, for the same reason. The dramas told the Athenian public their ethics and values, and these could be changed from year to year through making changes work in a script.

    http://henrymakow.com/2015/06/bruce-jenner-is-illuminati-psy.html

  3. Well I am having a little trouble digesting this lengthy post partly because I came in very much distracted by a BBC piece on the differences of black criminals/suspects and white ones. The Brits combed social media and “tracked the pulse” of the subject and did nothing but show how leftist anti-American they are and how fucking stupid way too many Americans are.
    Apologies for the pre-venting vent I’ll come back and throw a post related comment once I expunge my anger over the other thing.

  4. I couldn’t finish this one. Too long for me. I’m not judging its merits. Just personally too boring to be given these long ass paragraphs.

  5. As for skin pigmentation, you whiteys are at a disadvantage. They’ve told you the life-giving sun is harmful and so you avoid it or when you do go out in it, you slather non organics in your pores in order to ‘protect’ your sensitivity. Hogwash. Your vitamin D levels in the tank. Contaminants in your system elevated and robbing your health.

    Plastic world junkies.

    http://www.mnn.com/health/fitness-well-being/blogs/deteriorating-plastics-and-your-health Stupid humans.

  6. Made it to 115 yesterday. We tied a record. Looking for another 115 today. I’m diving into it. You guys enjoy your coolness. 🙂

  7. Sheesh, I don’t know what to think. This one entailed some work and deserves some serious thought and response.

    But before I answer, thank God there is somebody with black skin that thinks the term “African-American” is as stupid as I do. What a pandering, pathetic term; a political term to make people feel smug. I mean this sincerely – to pander to people on account of color is itself a form of racism in my book. Not even politically either. IMO, it’s the height of pretentiousness and does nothing but separate us. I’ve been called racist by both black and white for saying as much too. The world left me about 20 years ago and apparently I never caught up to the new enlightenment.

    And here’s another idiocy I wish I could never hear again. “Hate crime.” This is how stupid we’ve become. And one other – and this one will surprise Rutherford. ‘The Church’ making this crime all the more heinous. No, it doesn’t. Obama and millions of others, black and white, Left and Right, confuse four walls with a church. The church was itself murdered. The church is the people. The crime would have been equally as egregious had it happened in someone’s front room because a home is where people seek solace and should feel safe too. The punk is a psychotic mass murderer who should be immediately be put to death in front of a firing squad and would be if I were king. One appeal, and if he fails, death to send a message to anybody else tempted to play God.

    This one was actually very good, Rutherford. But I can’t make up my mind whether I agree with all of it, or not. I did agree with the Bruce Jenner part – the man is mentally ill. But the reason most people don’t want to go there is that to mention as much, there is a tacit link to being “gay” being a mental illness too. Nobody wants to mention that in polite company, and psychiatrists are scared to death to mention it in loud voice. But it is the truth.

    As to race, that’s a more difficult subject. While there are some genetic differences amongst the ‘races’, all of us are about 99.9% similar genetically (the genotype) , the sex chromosomes of XX or XY the biggest difference. But that 0.1% difference has profound differences in what is exhibited (the phenotype) – and the phenotype is the only thing most people understand or recognize.

    I realized something after reading this article, Rutherford. It’s amazing how similar our likes – the irony being how dissimilar our conclusions about life and politic. I probably ate more ‘soul food’ than you did growing up, being my kin from the South. I doubt we were raised much differently other than faith, and in fact your parents are more formally educated than mine.

    You may be more “refined” and white than me. I may be more black than you. 🙂

  8. Damn that is hot, Poolman. 115 is hot for August. It’s brutal in June. And tomorrow, the heat index here is supposed to be 107. I won’t make it mowing the lawn. Not acclimated yet.

    I heard on the news last night, there are parts of Oklahoma that have received 35 inches of rain the last 3+ weeks. Unbelievable how humid it is here right now – like Houston.

  9. Maybe why there is such resentment growing in this country among the largest demographic?

    You’re racist and everything is all your fault.

    I once played golf on a course in White Settlement, TX. No kidding. 🙂 It was the first time I remember meeting what I would call a real racist, as in “kill all the niggers type.”

    I remember telling him ‘sweetly’, “That’s not the problem. You need to kill all the white liberals. Therein lies your problem.” He belly laughed.

    Though I said it in jest, I’m beginning to believe I was prescient after reading articles like this.

  10. I’m glad you are where you are Poolman and I am not. Our high was 77 yesterday, and it is 55 this morning. Our temperature may reach the low nineties tomorrow, and that will be like 9AM for you.

    Reality is we are who we are genetically and anatomically. Things happen to alter our perceptions of who we think we are. Maybe we were adopted and raised as another race, for example.

    Our self image may differ from who we really are, and it feels like our only reality, but we are still who our genes say we are. Some one who believes he or she is another race, gender or age may accept those conditions as real, but that person is living AS someone else. He/she may be convincing and find that psychologically or socially he/she can not survive any other way, but deep down, that person is living a role not changing reality. The essence has immutable.

  11. Rutherford, I really liked your post. You made some thought provoking statements that make sense in this crazy world of“who da hell am I”.
    .The world evolves around a generation of identity crisis, searching for one’s roots and in general searching for the reason to exist.

    My question regarding Rachael is why now? Why did her parents wait until now to spill the beans?
    I understand that she has had this job for a couple of years. Who benefited from this revelation?
    It’s the same question I have regarding Caitlyn. Who benefited?

  12. “My question regarding Rachael is why now? Why did her parents wait until now to spill the beans?”

    They were contacted by the police in connection with the apparently false claims of racial threats sent to her. It also coincides with the case against their son for some kind of sexual misconduct. Then media got a hold of it and went to them.

    That’s one screwed up family.

  13. “I understand that she has had this job for a couple of years. Who benefited from this revelation?”

    Perhaps those whom she has lied to and made accusations against.

  14. So many questions.

    Should someone be permitted to chose their ethnicity?

    Why would you choose one over another?

    Why would the black community have an issue with this “appropriation?”

    If it is nothing more than a “social construct” why not get rid of preferences, another “social construct?”

  15. Just personally too boring to be given these long ass paragraphs.

    Apologies. After I published it I realized I could have broken it up better. Coming from a school teacher, your criticism stings. Be that as it may, if you have any interest in “knowing” me, give it another shot. It’s one of my more personal posts, for better or worse.

    P.S. I do take issue with your “boring” assessment.

  16. This will send you running screaming from the room. Here is Lotta again. As I wrote, we know each other.

    She is speaking of coping with a knowledge of two languages. Consider BC Jenner or someone posing as a member of another race. Such people must overlay a new cultural behavior onto the original identity. A “new” person will never experience growing up as the new self. There will be gaps which forever separate that person from those who were in their roles for life. “You can’t come up with the right word that a five year old should know.” or “I accidently switch languages.” Or words and phrases that are not translatable to the other language.” This also applies to experience and behavior.

    One can never truly become a new person. At best one can successfully live as someone else.

    Lotta is speaking of language, but consider gender or racial roles as akin to languages. I think this vlog relates to what you were writing, Rutherford.

  17. Both of the people you highlight in your post R are mentally disturbed individuals. I seriously doubt any entity is actually controlling them or any others. Thats a cop out for societal weaknesses. Something crazy or evil happens blame the fucking Matrix,preferably the jew one at that.
    El Tigre’s point that I repasted is THE end all and be all of this topic. If you really want a massively homogenized society just drop the freaking labels,preferences and all that and let it be what it is.

  18. If you are a man who feels like a woman trapped inside, and on one level you are really mentally female, you have an advantage over other men when picking up women. You know exactly what to say.

  19. Remember when flying used to be kind of fun? This is the kind of humor I heard growing up. Must be a Texas/OK kind of thing. Sorry to go off topic, but I thought this was pretty clever:

  20. ♫ Hello bar, here’s a song that I’m singin’ ♫
    Let your hair get nappy
    A whole lotta bitchin’ is what I be bringin’
    Shit, that Muffy’s sassy

    MLK had a dream we’d be livin’ together
    How the heck did we get it so wrong?
    Why we always fightin’ when we’re put all together
    Whatever happened to Rodney King’s ‘Can’t we Just all get Along?

    Social construct is the song that they’re singin’
    The whole worlds gone daffy
    A whole lotta bitchin’ is what we be bringin’
    To hell with being happy
    ♫ To hell with being happy ♫

  21. Ain’t got no place to lay your head
    Somebody came and took your bed

    Don’t worry, be happy” Bobby McFerin

  22. Also, off topic. When I watched the video of the pink bikini being subdued by the officer I saw her yelling at various points before he eventually pinned her in what could not have been a comfortable position. I thought to myself, can there be a video of a clearly compliant black citizen being abused by a white cop where we wouldn’t have to guess at the context or assume the worst about the people involved?

    I can’t think of a more humble and unambiguous victim of hatred than those who died in Charlston at the hands of that young – I don’t even know how to refer to him – killer I guess.

    I don’t hear the truth ringing in the talk of “hate crimes” either but this was hate. And that does make it different.

  23. “If it is nothing more than a “social construct” why not get rid of preferences, another “social construct?” -ET

    I didn’t make it through the article. No disrespect to the others taking it seriously including the author.

  24. It’s June, Rutherford. I don’t self identify with that profession. Please check your privlage and respect how I identity. Every time you label me its a trigger. I demand a safe zone.

    And how do I identify, you ask?

    I self identity as a victimized and battered man who desires to be a black lesbian fan of the band Rush who desires to be a straight man. That’s right. My self identification is 360 degree circle of utter hell that you can never understand.

  25. “I didn’t make it through the article. No disrespect to the others taking it seriously including the author.”

    I hope you don’t think I read the damn thing. I think Rutherford was proving that he’s the whitest guy here. 😆

  26. I self identity as a victimized and battered man who desires to be a black lesbian fan of the band Rush who desires to be a straight man. That’s right. My self identification is 360 degree circle of utter hell that you can never understand.

    😆 😆

    I haven’t read such poetry since Bob Dylan penned the words to “Like a Rolling Stone…”

  27. If Hillary dyes her hair blonde, is she really blonde? Does Gray Hillary still exist?

    Kant would have said that to say a thing exists is not to attribute existence to that thing but to say that the concept of the thing is exemplified in the world. Existence and non -existence are not as a matter of things possessing or lacking a property but as concepts corresponding or not corresponding to the world. Thus,Concept blonde and gray Hillary possess features of the same property.

    It makes her as stupid in her blonde phase as the other.

  28. Michele Malkin’s column “The Creepy Consequence of Oppression Chic” tells us of the well-known affirmative action thieves like Ward Churchill and Elizabeth Warren and includes less notorious people.

    One young man from India knew his grades weren’t good enough to get into school, so he shaved his head and his eye lashes. He entered medical school as a black man.

    Harvard gave a Latino a full scholarship after he falsely claimed to be an illegal alien.

    False representation is becoming a serious problem. One of the most notable identity liers is our president.

  29. If it is nothing more than a “social construct” why not get rid of preferences, another “social construct?”

    I think I take issue with how you put it. “Nothing more than…” suggests the construct is insignificant. The caste system construct is far from insignificant. The construct of preferences is an attempt to counter the negative consequences of the construct of race.

    Get rid of the race construct and poof, there goes the preference construct also.

  30. Obama presented himself as someone who he was not. He led the country to believe he was a “uniter, not a divider.” He is not the first politician to fake his identity for personal gain, and he won’t be the last, but in his way, he was lying in the same way as the two people who prompted your thread. He hid behind Fake Obama.

    I like Kant because he is so confusing. Ha Ha!!

    Get rid of the racial construct and we still have the potential economic and regional constructs. Liberals are persistent and creative.

  31. @ Rutherford no other western nation has a black population that is solely seen as black or some variant of the PC African-American schtick we have here . Is it your position that US blacks have both a voluntary and involuntary barrier to integration?

  32. “Get rid of the race construct and poof, there goes the preference construct also.”

    I don’t understand this. Can you elaborate?

  33. Is it your position that US blacks have both a voluntary and involuntary barrier to integration?

    I think that’s a good way to put it. Regarding the voluntary barrier, it is more the myth of the melting pot rather than a barrier. Hell, you see it in any corporate cafeteria. Indians sitting with Indians, blacks sitting with blacks. Interestingly I don’t recall that being the case with Asians. I seem to recall a greater tendency for them to mix it up.

  34. Tigre, when I called race a construct I was simply saying it is a societal categorization not really founded in any science. It’s a the criteria for a caste system. All parties to the system must be willing to let it go. That means both the “privileged” and the folks who have made a cottage industry out of victimhood. But it’s a lot like nukes. No one wants to unilaterally disarm. So the victim says “I’ll give up the preference programs when I’m sure you will treat me fairly” and the privileged say “I’ll treat you fairly when you stop accusing me of racism at every turn”.

    You’ve got a bit of a stalemate there. In a utopia, the construct of race goes away, the “victims” believe it has gone away, and everybody just gets by on their merits.

  35. Why did her parents wait until now to spill the beans?

    Tigre provided an answer I didn’t know. But another interesting question that I didn’t tackle in the essay (would have made it that much longer) is why the ANGER, particularly from the mother? Is it simply being rejected by her daughter or does it run deeper? I get the sense if the daughter claimed to be Asian, the mother would not be so pissed.

    Which is VERY odd in light of the fact the mother has two adopted black children.

  36. Regarding the SC shooting, why is the media tied up in knots over whether this is a hate crime or domestic terrorism? Some racist lunatic killed nine innocent people. Why does it need to be labeled beyond that?

  37. The media is torn because they cant divide us as readily if its terrorism.

    Their bizzarro worlds are colliding.

    Hellery is jubilant.

  38. “The America of my time line is a laboratory example of what can happen to democracies, what has eventually happened to all perfect democracies throughout all histories. A perfect democracy, a ‘warm body’ democracy in which every adult may vote and all votes count equally, has no internal feedback for self-correction. It depends solely on the wisdom and self-restraint of citizens… which is opposed by the folly and lack of self-restraint of other citizens. What is supposed to happen in a democracy is that each sovereign citizen will always vote in the public interest for the safety and welfare of all. But what does happen is that he votes his own self-interest as he sees it… which for the majority translates as ‘Bread and Circuses.’

    ‘Bread and Circuses’ is the cancer of democracy, the fatal disease for which there is no cure. Democracy often works beautifully at first. But once a state extends the franchise to every warm body, be he producer or parasite, that day marks the beginning of the end of the state. For when the plebs discover that they can vote themselves bread and circuses without limit and that the productive members of the body politic cannot stop them, they will do so, until the state bleeds to death, or in its weakened condition the state succumbs to an invader—the barbarians enter Rome.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein

  39. Man…did you guys hear the woman invite Dylannnnnn Coward to the next bible study?

    Choked me up.

    These people were hurting so bad yet talking about forgiveness at arraignment.

    Shit man…..I need to get back to church.

  40. Regarding the SC shooting, why is the media tied up in knots over whether this is a hate crime or domestic terrorism?

    Because their style manual doesn’t tell them which take will allow them to get the most mileage out of the knee-jerk reactions of the usual suspects.

    Have to flog the “we need more gun laws” and “it’s time to ban the confederate battle flag” memes for all they are worth.

    I read a particularly odious piece of idiocy on the second today that cause me to post an EPIC Blackiswhite-style rant on Facebook this afternoon.

  41. Speaking of style manual, I’m not surprised the periphrastic BiC finds this blog entry to be a home run.

  42. Its Friday, it was a long week. I have a week until I’m unemployed. I’m going to have a workout, a beer, and a good night’s sleep. Have a great tune and enjoy the talent of my favorite, now sadly dead drummer, the one and only brilliant crashing maching, Jon Brooks.

  43. Come to Tulsa, BIC, and we’ll philosophize and I’ll take you fishing on our swollen rivers. 🙂

    I’m not making light of the situation I hate to hear that. But I find it hard to believe a well written guy like you would be out of work long.

  44. Yeah BiC….sorry to hear that. It’s got to be stressful.

    You could always fight brain drain and come back here.

  45. Well fuck, BiC. I don’t know if you’ve shared your circumstances. But if I can help in any way shoot an email please.

    The strength of so many of these SC peeps is inspiring. God love them. Remarkable.

    And the numerous shit-stirring dems trying to capitalize, politicize, and divide are real pieces of shit. Obama at the head.

    John Stewart is an ignorant shithead. I don’t care how emotionally affected he is by this. He hasn’t got a clue.

  46. I’m trying to get my head around your self-determined “victim,” “privileged,” “social construct,” “preference,” “proof” and “nuclear standoff” paradigm. Maybe some sleep will help.

  47. I mean, a “victim” has a right to choose and retain preferential treatment unless they are assured they will be treated “fairly?” Who’s construct?

  48. Shit man…..I need to get back to church.

    I will say this. The behavior of those survivors, deep in mourning, was the finest example of Christianity I have seen in some time. When the chips were down they stuck to their teachings and turned the other cheek. It was sad to watch but cleansing at the same time. And it made Roof look sooooo small, far smaller than if they had expressed vengeance instead of forgiveness.

    Do you know the punk felt they had treated him nice at the prayer meeting but he had to go “through with his mission”.

  49. “it’s time to ban the confederate battle flag”

    Taking down that flag won’t bring back those 9 people but the time is right.

    The Confederacy lost the war. They don’t get to fly a flag no more.

  50. I have a week until I’m unemployed.

    WTF? If I recall, you’re younger than I am so you’re not retiring. And there’s always a need for lawyers. What’s going on? You didn’t get back stabbed by your brother like Jimmy in “Better Call Saul”, did you?

  51. Tigre I guess I’m poorly stating that neither the victim nor the supposed victimizer trust each other enough to depart from the racial construct.

    Tex might be a good example of what I’m talking about. He would LIKE to sympathize with blacks but he’s tired of what he perceives as whining. He doesn’t trust them to recognize a fair deal when they see one. He thinks they want more and more and more. They in turn think he’s a racist. Kinda difficult to bridge the two of them at this point.

  52. BiC, didn’t mean to make light of your circumstance. If ANYONE here understands the stress of un(der)employment, I do. Consider looking at Flexjobs.com with a very wide range of time/place/flexible positions with varying salaries. You might find something to at least pay for the groceries while you find greener pastures.

    My Harvard jobs board is often seeking legal skills. If you like, send me your resume and specialty and I’ll float it out there.

  53. John Stewart is an ignorant shithead.

    I don’t get you on this. I just watched his monologue (which I then posted to Facebook). “Racial wallpaper” was one of the best metaphors I’ve heard in a while.

    It comes down to this: Hey BOY, ride on roads and across bridges named after your oppressors and salute the flag of state sponsored oppression and SUCK IT UP BOY cos that’s our history. Just suck it up.”

    And then you blame me for understanding black rage.

  54. Rutherford – It looks like Jeb Bush is sucking all the appropriate things in his bid to be Prez. I guess he wants to prove to the ReThuglicans that he’s a moral person. Ever see what Barry Goldwater had to say about that kind of stuff?

    “Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they’re sure trying to do so, it’s going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can’t and won’t compromise. I know, I’ve tried to deal with them.
    …..
    The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom…. I’m frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in ‘A,’ ‘B,’ ‘C,’ and ‘D.’ Just who do they think they are?… I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of “conservatism.”‘

    Since when did “conservatism” mean “religion?” The Republicans’ first fight needs to be one to get their party back.

  55. re: long and boring post. Sometimes one has to realize that important things take longer to say than your typical Cheetos commercial. Sounds like an attention span problem.

    re: confederate battle flag. Maybe they don’t see it the way you see it. And if it offends you, that’s too damned bad. They have the right to offend you. The US Constitution does NOT guarantee you a Safe Zone to live in, or the right to not be offended.

    You can offend them too, if you like. You just can’t make them take their flag down – you know, first amendment and all. That’s the kind of Leftist stuff Bill Maher, et al, are fighting against.

  56. “It comes down to this: Hey BOY, ride on roads and across bridges named after your oppressors and salute the flag of state sponsored oppression and SUCK IT UP BOY cos that’s our history. Just suck it up.”

    And then you blame me for understanding black rage.”

    No, and no. You don’t understand. You don’t understand these people at all.

    You’re as ignorant of the cultural aspects and what they represent, actually more so, than Stewart. I of course know you had trip as a kid and one recently to pit stop at the Golden Corral’s and Hampton Inns on your way to a vacation spot. Incredibly you may have missed something in your smug, misguided bigotry.

    The real problem is finding the flag or the streets germane to the shooting. They are not connected. Just more stereotyping and politically motivated and misplaced blame. I fucking hate it. Do you hear these “victims” and in SC making these connections? No. Dickheads in Illinois and NY are making social commentaries truly divorced in order to fix blame on their oppressive lesser because it helps their narratives.

    The worst part is how bigoted YOU are. The differences in the community and the relationships from what you think they are and should be is why we don’t have a Ferguson or Baltimore on our hands. You think that is being an apologist for slavery or racism, I’m sure.

    And guess what? I used to share your ignorance and arrogance. And what I know is the people in SC don’t need it. The majority resent the shit out of it too. Stewart needs to shut his self-indulgent yap and you need to quit applauding it.

  57. Rutherford understands the Southern “black rage” in Charleston. 😆 Yeah. Whatever.

    They dislike you, your Reverend Wrights and Sharptons, Stewarts and cadre of race agitators more than those you label their “oppressors.”

  58. ”The behavior of those survivors, deep in mourning, was the finest example of Christianity I have seen in some time. When the chips were down they stuck to their teachings and turned the other cheek. It was sad to watch but cleansing at the same time. And it made Roof look sooooo small, far smaller than if they had expressed vengeance instead of forgiveness.”

    I’m glad you found it cleansing, though I’m not entirely sure what you mean by that (unless it resulted in a change.)

    Of course these people are Christianity at its best. Just know that there are also white supremacists playing variations on a theme of “well hell those are just the good n-ers.” If there are any second thoughts today for them it’s that they might think sonny boy just killed the wrong blacks.

    The truth is these folks are blacks. And Christians. If you don’t see them all around then it’s incumbent upon you to go to places where you can because the teevee and especially political broadcasting isn’t going to carry their message any further than the ratings will allow it.

    I sat in a pew as a young girl and listened to a man lift his rich tenor voice to the heavens and sing the Lord’s Prayer at the funeral of his own son. I will never forget it as long as I live because it changed me.

    If the first thing that comes to your mind is – but but “God” gave his child the cancer then shake it off and go deeper once in a while. Maybe one day along with “black rage” you’ll also understand how Mr B could sing, and how these people – the families of the victims of hatred – can forgive.

    PS…But if you think these people are perfect, think again.

  59. My experience in South Carolina is centered in the Charleston and Greenville areas but I think no matter where you are in the Palmetto State you are aware of certain cultural realities and tensions.
    I found SC to offer a fairly open book atmosphere that was very friendly yet focused on itself. The state and most of its population recognizes it has experienced a number of changes as it tries to tackle parts of its legacy. The legacy is very much in the open and it looks real hard at race,economics and education and always appeared to me to be doing so open and honestly.
    All that said though there is clearly a degree of tension present caused by what appears to be a minority element. There are places and policies that easily take one back to the ’60’s and by that I mean there are places where it feels 1960 and others circa 1860. A Yankee and I dare say a black person who finds themselves in this oh so palpable Twilight Zone is not comfortable. I would only want to stress that it does appear to be a minority element that keeps the feeling going but that that minority has some obvious power.

  60. @ Parker actually the laws of the USA including the Constitution does indeed guarantee one a safe zone. It doesn’t offer it free of charge but it clearly does.

  61. Rutherford, you call it whining. I call it perpetual victimization, race hustling, egregious behavior, lying, and duplicity. Big difference.

    But you are right about one thing. Men like you, always looking through the prism of race to either find excuse, further political expediency, or cast blame, do make it difficult for me to want to “reconcile.”

    If that makes me a racist? Who cares? I’m not interested in what black race hustlers think of me. Because I don’t think they are racists. I know they are racists.

    Make you an example. Where is the national apology from the pompous, corrupt, braying asses calling themselves the Black Congressional Caucus for propagating the lie “Hands Up, Don’t Shoot!” in the Capitol Building? Pure theater based on nothing but lies.

    Worse, where is the mention in our press about just how wrong these race hustlers were?

  62. Damn Tex, you guys are getting some serious wet stuff over there in OK! We are dry, so the heat is more bearable. It only got up to 114 yesterday, so no record. Expecting to hover around there for about a week or so, per the weather gurus.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I like the warm, James, and sure won’t give up my mild winters to enjoy a mild summer. I do miss cherry trees, though.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I found the people of my home state of NJ more racist than most folks in southwestern US. They are everywhere and it is not regional as much as a generational thing. A definite product of their upbringing.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    And for those of you still touting American Exceptionalism…

  63. I don’t think I could live in Arizona (comfortably) because I actually like a change of seasons. 114 is hot even without humidity.

    Add to the fact, as I’ve gotten older, what used to be my favorite season (summer), has turned into my least liked season. I get so damn tired of yard work, I could scream – and with the rain we’ve had, it’s mow every three days which has become my only viable means of exercise.

    I’ve gotten to where I find fall my favorite season, closely followed by spring.

  64. Tell you how bad the rainy season has been, Poolman, and how humid the conditions right now. And the temperature never got much above 90.

    I did something yesterday I don’t think I’ve ever done before. I actually changed outfits in between the front and the back yard. My shirt and underwear were literally stuck to me, like I had jumped in a lake. And I wasn’t exactly exerting myself.

  65. It’s a shame, Rutherford. You put considerable time into an entry, a good one I thought, and then ruin it with your idiocy about the Confederate flag. That’s the kind of black racism I am talking about that is so prevalent amongst the race hustlers and sheep like you.

    Let’s not kid ourselves. I know exactly why you are jumping on this flag bashing wagon. It gives you the means to accuse white people of racism and by extension, make them accomplices to Roof’s evil act.

    This is why I detest your methods. I find them wholly dishonest and destructive. So much so, I find myself losing sympathy for the horrendous crime committed.

  66. Of course it is just coincidence that the SC state senator killed just successfully pushed legislation in his state requiring police officers to wear body cams. And coincidentally had just campaigned with Hellery (I like that, Muffy) earlier that day. Hell left 2 hours before the shooting. What is it about Hell and the trail of dead bodies? Coincidence?

    And of course the current themes of racism/terrorism/religion blanketed the snews while the fed’s beastly legislative arm voted for fast tracking the secretive trade agenda. Happenstance?

    Since the law makes it legal to propagandize Americans, I wonder when they will start? 😐

  67. Tex, I actually drank 2 gallons of water from 7am until 5pm yesterday and still felt thirsty. I consumed no food until 7pm. The heat slows construction work down, as no one moves too fast in it. Some crews take the day off. Most crews want to start work at 4 or 5 in the morning and be done by early afternoon. I am more of a night person, so I generally am still out there working at 5 and 6 pm and sleeping past 5am. That way I’m getting the full sun benefit. 🙂 I don’t like humidity and heat combined and recall the few times I have been to Houston in the summer as seeming much worse than the 120 degrees we occasionally reach. It seemed difficult to breathe and the slickery sweat part really sucked.

    You’d think by controlling the weather they would make these areas more moderate and even all around, yet we see more extreme conditions. So, either that is the real intent, or they have no control over the repercussions from screwing around with mother nature.

  68. @ Tex you have my sympathy that the MSM et al are latching onto other topics to push an agenda in light of a tragedy. That every angle of this story is dripping with agenda and falsely applied context is in no small part a result of conditioned human response.
    Still one can’t help but to believe Root benefitted from official sanction of symbolism used to propagate hate. Confederate flags undeniably dovetail snugly with the thinking behind wearing RSA and Rhodesian flags.
    Seriously is there more than three groups of people in the USA who recognize the Rhodesian flag and that countries history? Those groups being:1)flag geeks/ intellectuals/academics,2) former citizens of Rhodesia present citizens of Zimbabwe 3) Racist/white supremacist/neo-Nazis
    Where is Root? I’m thinking ya got a winner with #3.

  69. R, I’m afraid Tex got it right concening the selfish motives employed by your party and you in appropriating the tragedy and the flag issue (and I am agsinst the flag because of its symbolism). The shallowness and intent really fucking piss me off.

    Alfie, I have spent plenty of time in Charleston and other parts of SC. Much of it was with the black community. I agree about half of what you said. What is 1960s part and the tension. I’m not ssying there isn’t tension but I’d like to know what you’re talking about because I think it’s different observation.

    The shit Stewart was saying about streets and flags is compltely off the mark.

    BTW, as you probably saw, there’s significant differences in attitude in different parts of the state.

  70. Since this event was obviously timed and planned by the agenda setters and since the military is in its Jade Helm exercise, it will be interesting to see the next part of the script which will undoubtedly unfold in the next few days or weeks. I wonder if we all turned off our teevees whether these events would still happen? Kind of the ‘when a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around does it make a sound?’ kind of thing. Tptb are ratcheting up a race and religion war and pushing for outright gun confiscation.

    Nothing is random with these demons in charge.

  71. Let me clarify.

    What is the 1960s part of Greenville and Charleston? Yes, there ghosts and relics throughout. What other than that? All places have their history.

    The worst of racism that I’ve seen isn’t down here. It’s where I grew up. I’m not talking about self segregation and social traditions.

  72. Parker, if all or even most Christians acted like the Charleston families, you and I would be left with nothing but intellectual arguments against the illogic of religion. Quite frankly, religion has been good for these people. All I can hope is that others can find their decency regardless of belief in Christ.

  73. Parker, your argument applies to confederate flags on bumper stickers which is free expression. The argument should not apply to the State. The State should take the high ground.

    I swear to God, if I were able bodied and lived in Charleston I’d take that flag down myself or be arrested trying. I’m not kidding.

  74. “I swear to God, if I were able bodied and lived in Charleston I’d take that flag down myself or be arrested trying. I’m not kidding.”

    I call your bluff. Plane ticket one me.

  75. I think – and I’m only guessing – the reason Rutherford jumped on this flag BS is that he thinks emotions are reliable agents for change. I tend to disagree.

    Why can’t people just stay in the moment. A drug would make you feel better too but it isn’t the answer either.

  76. So Tigre. I wanna get underneath one particular of your comment. You say you used to believe as I do. When you moved down there, what changed your mind?

    BTW my first trip to a Southern state other than FL was as an adult, not a kid … and I was disgusted by Atlanta’s tourist approach to black concentration camps.

  77. Rutherford understands the Southern “black rage” in Charleston.

    I didn’t say there was black rage in Charleston. You’re putting words in my mouth. I was referring to black rage in general.

  78. I don’t think I could live in Arizona (comfortably) because I actually like a change of seasons. 114 is hot even without humidity.

    We actually have plenty of that in the northern part of the state. But I prefer the warm and obviously more pool type business climate. I can get to snow or trout streams in a couple hours, though often the roads get closed due to weather. It is wise to travel in winter with chains and supplies if heading north from down here in the valley. Plenty of locals have cabins for some summer heat relief.

    It is kind of cool to see snow-capped mountains surrounding you in the distance while you are taking in the sun in shorts and tees. That is what winters are generally like and the whole place fills up with folks from all over. Summertime is way less people dense.

  79. Rutherford you’re no better than the neo-nazis who look at the families of the victims hand say “not all blacks are bad.” Shame that you don’t know how fucked up that is.

  80. Rutherford, there is no one place more racist than another place. Racism starts in the home and this nation is full of homes and now plenty of homeless too. It is a caste mentality, but starts at the home. It is a learned trait, if it can be labeled as such. No one thinks their biases are unreasonable. It is just that when we get in group think mode often set off by those in media, we tend to split into sides and then when stirred act against the ‘other’ side in the false belief that we are helping our own. It’s mental cannibalism fostered on this society by the worst of our groomed role models.

    One day you will realize the snews is telling you what to think… maybe 😐

  81. Muffy, despite my strong intellectual issues with religion, and my suspicion that many if not most followers are supreme hypocrites, there is no denying the power of Rev Pinckney’s voice. I saw clips of him being interviewed and clips of him preaching. I could honestly see myself in Pinckney’s church on Sunday just to hear that voice and be reminded of human decency once a week.

    Of course those people were not perfect. No one is. But the profiles I’ve seen make me think this particular congregation had a good effect on its members that sustained past the walls of the church. I’m NOT convinced that that is the norm.

    As for “cleansing”, I meant it pretty literally. Events like this fill me with both sadness and anger. Anger is not good for one’s constitution. The forgiveness granted by these relatives cut through my anger. That’s what I meant by “cleansing”. I wasn’t making a veiled reference to baptism or sudden conversion if that’s where you were headed.

  82. First Rutherford, if you brought yourself down here to impose your brand of bigotry I’d stand in line to slap the ever livibg shit out of. Then I’d head back into line to donit again. I mean that. I despise your type of emtionally fueled ignorance.

    Second, what I learned when I came down here thst I didn’t get from teevee is that the the flag is battle flag deeply rooted in the South’s history. One that his held with deep reverence and born of profound sacrafice. The misuse by white supremicists is apart from that and the only one you know. But you don’t look or try to understand.

    I know this will blow your little mind, but I have some very liberal friends — annoying social justice warriors — that feel strongly sbout the flag and what it represents to them — not your ignorant ass.

    As for the plantations you visited, what does thst have to do with this debate? Good for you. You’re making my point. You impose your ignorant agenda based on your imagination and symbolism you don’t understand.

    That’s what I learned.

    Why don’t you tie the flag to Roof. It dovetails into nothing. Nothing shows that played role in this whatsoever. That’s an extrapolation that is intended an entire region and millions of people that have nothing to do with the tragedy.

    But I’m serious. Link it all up for me. Don’t repeat the lines with emotion and hunt for comments to validate your bigotry. Tell me in yoyr own words why the siuth snd Charlston should be indicted by you for what happened.

    As I said, these folks don’t wNt you talking for them or about them as you try to fit your sensibilities into the false narrative thst anyone other than Roof is to blame. They for the most part don’t like you and your magnanimous blather.

  83. Oh the typos.

    Let it be known that I would slap the ever loving shit out of Rutherford and get in line to do it again. Good Ol’ Fashioned Pimp Slappin’.

    That line would would be a long one. But I’d wait.

  84. Poolman, that’s the damn truth. I’ve come to realize there really is no one place more racist than another.

  85. I would only ask Rutherford, if he believes the South so racist, why are so many blacks immigrating there then?

    Damn good question. Taking your statement as fact (number of immigrants from the North) clearly economics must be a factor. Low cost of living.

    I’m also guessing, without having read Tigre’s response yet, that Southern blacks have resigned themselves to the tacit insults that surround them, the “racial wallpaper” as Jon Stewart puts it. If you can live on 40k or more a year, maybe the Edmund Pettus bridge doesn’t piss you off that much.

  86. Pools if you want an honest and disturbing slice of the globe, watch John Oliver every week. I do. He consistently goes deeper than Scott Pelley and George Snuffalupugus. Our official TV news sources are pathetic.

  87. maybe the Edmund Pettus bridge doesn’t piss you off that much.

    PC-ness hasn’t hit every avenue of the united states, Rutherford. But even so, what difference at this point does it matter? Bobo, the drone king, is a pulitzer prize winner for f**ks sake!

  88. Rutherford, like I have said in the past, comedians are allowed to spew more truth to the public than the supposed investigative journalists. It’s an upside down backwards world. Fortunately I have learned to read and write in all directions. 🙂

  89. I know exactly why you are jumping on this flag bashing wagon. It gives you the means to accuse white people of racism and by extension, make them accomplices to Roof’s evil act.

    On the one hand I completely agree with you. Roof is on his own. Has no one to blame but himself. And we should blame no one but him.

    My problem is folks like you and Tigre and most conservatives NEVER want to extrapolate from the isolated event. You want to make it a one-off instead of giving some thought to whether our society encourages folks like Roof or discourages them.

    The encouragements range from state sponsored symbols of oppression to piss poor handling of the mentally ill.

    The HOPE is that by extrapolating we can make things better … make these tragedies less likely to happen.

    Now if your assertion is that there is no prevention possible AND that everyone knows that, THEN I agree with you 100% that it’s pure political cynicism and race-baiting.

    Personally, I’m an extrapolator.

  90. I call your bluff. Plane ticket one me.

    You missed a clause, English teacher. I said if I were able bodied. Now, care to fly down there with me, do the physical part, and we’ll get arrested together?

  91. Poolman, I think the all time record high for Iowa is 115. It reached 114 in our county during the Dust Bowl and most of the corn died it has been 111 on our farm. it turned the corn gray until evening.

    A cold front came through with mid eighties and gusty north west wind.

    We need regional extremes to make weather. If every place was similar there would be no reason for storms to develop.

    Where is the latest uproar over a police officer’s being killed today? New Orleans, I think. Until the Black Lives Matter folks get mad and protest such killings, I won’t worry much about bridges with the wrong names or Confederate flags. Rightly or wrongly, Confederate flags are more than racial symbols.

    A similar symbol is the color orange in Holland. it goes back to William of Orange and is a sign of pride in being Dutch.

  92. Rutherford the one-dimensional lectures on the virtues of extrapolation without it ever occuring to him the harm He inflicts.

    This is one of those times that I pity you, Rutherford. You Truly live in a bubble.

    Show us where your virtuous “extrapolations” have had a positive impact.

    Context.

    What you do is exploit and distort. If you want take on the flag, you’ve had plenty of opportunity and will have more. Instead you glom on to a tragedy and use it for your own purposes. You’ll forget and walk away when you’re done withought another thought of the victims or the cause.

    Change the channel.

    BTW, there are many reasons blacks move down here. The whole wirkd doesn’t operate with your cartoon imagery.

  93. We visited my father’s birth place in North Carolina when I was in high school The family had been gone for forty years, but as northern Yankees, they were memorable.

    Tom, my grand parents’ hired man when they lived in North Carolina was 86 and had lived through two wives. He had 16 children and the youngest was 14. He looked 60 and walked with a fast gait.

    Every one seemed to know him, and he took us around to see over 25 families in one day.Tom was a popular man, and everyone called him “Uncle Tom” out of affection it seemed.

  94. If you want take on the flag, you’ve had plenty of opportunity and will have more.

    Yes and why isn’t this an opportunity. Either the state flying the flag is an issue or it is not.

    BTW, there are many reasons blacks move down here. The whole wirkd doesn’t operate with your cartoon imagery.

    What’s cartoon imagery about cost of living? Did you read I said cost of living?

    Now please do tell me all the other reasons I didn’t mention.

  95. Another question: why if it’s so dandy is the Confederate flag NOT flying at half mast like the other two flags at the Capitol? I’ve heard that Haley has no control over the confederate flag. It can only be lowered only the general assembly. That alone makes no sense to me if its true.

  96. I’m sorry R. There’s not a sertious discussion to be had with you on this.

    The flag had nothing to do with the tragedy. And what ought to be debated concerningbthe flag or any other cultural issue in Charleston doesn’t include you. You’re taking away from the real issues. As always.

  97. I also just heard that the flag in question is not the flag of the Confederate States of America. It’s a “battle flag”. They lost the battle so why are they flying the flag other than to be defiant?

    It’s beginning to remind me of Japan. The myth goes there are still Japanese waiting for the next WWII battle plan.

  98. And what ought to be debated concerning the flag or any other cultural issue in Charleston doesn’t include you.

    Are you suggesting only locals can opine on local issues? If so I need to go check prior threads to see if you’ve commented on NYC stop and frisk or any other issue outside of Atlanta. Now you’re just being an idiot.

    What are the “real issues” Tigre? We already know you don’t want to discuss gun control. Should the shooting prompt ANY discussion about ANYTHING?

  99. “Are you suggesting only locals can opine on local issues?”

    I’m not going to retype what I said. You’re just being an idiot as usual.

    Go ahead. Speak on matter you’re not familiar with.

    Co-opt the tragedy. Rather than supporting the the community and bringing together to heal and see use it as an opportunity to blame and divide. Speak of issues like the flag with in the context of the shooting so the focus is properly on the white people that share the community as the ones responsible. Take it away Rutherford. Make it political. Make it yours! That is how we should address social issues in this country. You are a wise man. Save it for the funeral.

    Fuck you. Talk about what you want to talk about. Opine away. Right now you disgust me. I actually feel for these people and believe myself to be closer to them than you on several levels. Dispute or discount that all you want you sanctimonious fuck. You’re too ignorant for me to really care.

  100. My problem is folks like you and Tigre and most conservatives NEVER want to extrapolate from the isolated event. You want to make it a one-off instead of giving some thought to whether our society encourages folks like Roof or discourages them.

    I thought that is what you black men accused our nation of white racists of – extrapolating the acts of a few to then be tied an entire race of people to crime? Isn’t that what you call profiling? What you just wrote is exactly what I accused you of – using this event to then by extension tie all signs and symbols of any type to latent national white racism. You just admitted as much.

    And it’s a myth that blacks have been attempting to exploit for at least 50 years now and it is creating a massive bloc of resentment. And I got news for you and I don’t mean this as a threat. I am warning you as a friend. The biggest danger this attitude poses is not to whites but to blacks. When black men threaten the white race, they might as well go into the Lion Cage with a stick.

    You won’t connect the dots here, but this is why I have moved from not giving much thought about race to your bar residing Archie Bunker. I am tired of blacks being fixated on nothing but black and using it as excuse to mask their own massive personal failures. I am tired of them using color to exploit. I am tired of being blamed for what ails them. I am tired of their ingratitude. And I am damn tired of their bullying political act. I resent the hell out of it. I have never cheated a black man, used a black man, bad mouthed a black man with any racial connotation whatsoever.

    You know the part that disappoints me most about you R? You’re smart enough, educated enough to know better. You recognize a bully, a thug, a punk. This crazed idiot was a psychotic, just like that serial white killer up in Washington some years back. But when the curtain drops, you revert back to parroting this black bullshit mouthed by agitators for profit. And that is exactly what it is. Black bullshit. You’ve reverted to defining the lowest caste of your social construct. You’re more like me than you are these race hustlers. And yet you let race define you when the fight breaks out. You could be so much better. You actually are in a much better position than I am to help. But you don’t. You just jump on the bandwagon.

    This time when the war breaks out, the black man will have nobody to blame but himself. He has become what he once resented. You overcame nothing.

  101. One other thing, R. You love to throw out the Confederate Army lost? Fair enough.

    You should also note that the Democrats were on the losing side in that war.

  102. @’s in no particular order…
    @ Rutherford the flag is actually located in the state capital,Columbia and actually sits on state house grounds within a memorial site. The Governor and, there have been others than Nikki Haley, are unable to take action on the flag as per state law. The flag doesn’t have a pulley so it cannot be physically moved without being totally removed.
    @Rutherford I found the vibe to be a little different in the Charleston area compared to the “Upstate”. Charleston other than the powerfully obvious Ft Sumter trappings actually has many places that speak to its Revolutionary War time. In fact it is that era that the states nickname come from ala Ft Moultrie.
    @ El Tigre I found the Charleston area to have a vibe based more in the 1960’s. there were clear elements of race based tensions. That is not to say either the whites or blacks were hostile to tourists,transplants or locals. Just it was palpable that certain buildings had different meanings to different folks. Plantations aside I found folks take and attitudes on some of the churches and the Citadel to be kind of surprising.
    @ ET in the Upstate I found the 1860’s vibe. There are areas within the unincorporated county space where even the true locals joke about “its like Deliverance up there”. I’d laugh and they’d be like “no really we don’t even go up there” In fairness the vibe there wasn’t digging anyone,white,black or purple ;however,one could sympathize that the reality was harder for a person of color.
    @ El Tigre the points I commented on earlier regards relations and education as well as economy were meant quite honestly. Like anywhere else there were clear bilateral prejudices but not unlike the stuff I saw growing up in Boston during desegregation. I also so it to be true that in Greenville and Spartanburg counties there is a put near devotion to helping all rise a little bit more especially in trying to make the schools better. Some counties in SC don’t have as good a demographic mix and they do in fact have shittier county governance. County governance and the power of that is something as a New Englander I couldn’t buy into.

  103. Just as a side note kind of thing…for those asking why/if Charleston is terrorism,by the governments definition the answer is no.
    (d) Definitions
    As used in this section—
    (1) the term “international terrorism” means terrorism involving citizens or the territory of more than 1 country;
    (2) the term “terrorism” means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents;
    (3) the term “terrorist group” means any group practicing, or which has significant subgroups which practice, international terrorism;

  104. Lots of sound and fury signifying nothing from El Tigre.

    Let’s limit our discussion to the fucking obvious – that it’s terribly sad that nine people lost their lives this week. That’s it folks. That’s the ground rules. Discuss the mourning. Talk about what a fuckface Dylannnnnn Storm Roof is. Stay on those points. Depart from them in the slightest and the sanctimonious El Tigre will accuse you of exploiting a tragedy.

    Just a racist nut … wups oh DAMN I shouldn’t have called Roof racist! I’m not allowed to look for any contextual stuff. Ignore the Rhodesian and South African flags on his clothes and the Confederate flag on his car. All just harmless symbols and nothing to do with his mindset.

    I’m so ashamed of myself trying to draw deeper conclusions from what happened. Just a nut job and nine dead people. Cry and move on.

    Thanks ET for setting me straight.

  105. You should also note that the Democrats were on the losing side in that war.

    The old Democrats. Parties change. Not for noble reasons. They decide who they think it’s best to pander to and oddly right around the time of Nixon, the GOP saw that disgruntled whites, alienated by LBJ were a better source of votes than blacks. Dems on the other hand saw blacks eat LBJ up like catnip and found their new source of votes.

    See me in 80 years and the two parties (if they still exist) may swap places again.

    Notice how much some gop’ers suddenly want to “even the playing field”? That’s socialist talk there pardner! But if it gets votes, who cares?

  106. Notice in the article, when the flag was moved from the dome to its new location someone said “off the dome and in your face!”

    Yeah, no defiance or desire to offend. Such an innocent symbol.

    Come to think of it, I’m a bit surprised some of the “patriots” on this board don’t have a problem with memorializing traitors.

    Come on gang. Come clean! How many of you wish the South had won the war? 😈

  107. Alfie, this means McVeigh wasn’t a terrorist nor were the Tsarnaev bro’s who I think were Americans.

    Do you believe in domestic terrorism? Some have Roof claiming he wanted to start a race war.

  108. LOL ET I may piss you off but you amuse me. Clearly one of the odder characters here, odder in some ways than Poolman.

    I’m not sure you have an ideology. You just hate folks stirring up shit. Solve the immediate problem and move the fuck on.

    Maybe you’re just the most practical one here?

  109. Actually by the definition McVeigh was a domestic terrorist:

    2) the term “terrorism” means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents;

  110. Not I.

    My Great Great Grandfather fought in the Civil War. He was wounded during Sherman’s March to the Sea. Another ancestor was a prisoner at Andersonville.

    The South wasn’t treasonous. The two parts of the United States had two different concepts of the type of country the United States should be. Slavery was incidental and used as a war measure to defeat the South. It was part of two competing economic systems.

    They were not unlike the third of so of American colonists who though they considered themselves to be English revolted because their concept of government was different from the Brits. Some of my ancestors fought for freedom while others fled to Canada because they supported the British government. They weren’t traitors either, because the two forces were disputing social and economic concepts.

    Both of these wars were akin to violent family disputes.

    Real traitors were folks like Jane Fonda and the college anti- war protesters who opposed our involvement because they were communist sympathisors or were duped by their leaders. Unlike the other two organizations, they actually tried to hurt our war effort and tried to harm our troops.

  111. I put this out there because I hate the whole this is a thug this is a hood this is a terrorist game folks play. Words do mean things and they are usually initiated properly,until someone gets all PC about it and delve into their style books.
    It was just a few years ago that I discovered Reuters and AP actually have a thing called a style book which lays out word choice etc. Call me naive but I was legitimately shocked a little.

  112. The Tsarnaevs immigrated to the US
    from Kyrgyzstan. They were Chechen and the Russians had warned the US about them.

    I was about to tell you the difference between terrorists and mass murderers, but Alfie beat me to it.

  113. Alfie I’m pretty sure I heard of a NYT style guide many years ago. Can’t swear it included word choice vs simple punctuation, etcetera.

    But your other point is interesting. I JUST saw a headline that asked why blacks are thugs and terrorists but whites are just “mentally ill”.

  114. Part of the reason is that the latest group of mass murderers were mentally unhinged.

    Most of the killers we call terrorists are white. Most are also Muslim foreigners. Most of the blacks who killed people until now were not terrorists. Most of them were petty criminals who accidently made the big time.

  115. The writer of that headline is more ignorant than I am. I am just a hick farmer, but I could write a more accurate headline without the agenda.

  116. Thugs don’t do these kind of mass shootings.

    Terrorists are usually connected to a political cuase and working with a group (or at least indirectly influenced by a group). Islam, of course, is political.

    This dude could be considered a lone wolf terrorist, I suppose.

    We say they are mentally ill becuase they usually are. As in clinically.

    If you think somehow these mass shooters are held on higher regard as black thugs, you are wrong.

    It never ends with you.

    Always desperately trying to find some angle.

  117. “My problem is folks like you and Tigre and most conservatives NEVER want to extrapolate from the isolated event. ” R

    So….now you want people to stop isolating events and start painting with a broad brush?

  118. This was the piece of idiocy that set me off yesterday:

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/take-down-the-confederate-flag-now/ar-AAbNKzv

    This was my response in one of the groups I’m in on Facebook:

    Another part of the “crisis” that our betters have determined to not let go to waste.
    I’ve been thinking a LOT lately about the success the proggies enjoyed with making racism unacceptable politithoughtspeechactions, and how they used sometimes extraordinary legal means to not just mitigate its effects, not just to punish it, but to make it completely socially and physically unacceptable, even to the point that even thinking such thoughts should lead the offender to self-impose a loathing and pariah status so that those around them may be made aware of these despicable deviations from the state dictated norms of acceptability.
    We allowed the state to promulgate a moral standard, rather than giving voice to angels of our better nature in other societal institutions, which is why they feel so comfortable, so ENTITLED to extend their judgments about so many other decisions, thoughts, and perspectives that are not theirs to dictate. We helped establish this secular neo-deity, and we must be made to bow our knee to its divine authority if it is to maintain the façade of infallibility and moral superiority.
    I didn’t grow up in the South, but I’m enough of a man of perception and conviction to understand that many of the same people this jackhole would tar with the “RRRRRAAACCCIIISSSTTT!!11!!!” brush see it as a symbol of something else entirely, if only for the sense of sacrifice, duty, and yes, REBELLION that make up intrinsic and indispensable parts of the American Character…of people who believed enough in the idea of the CONSENT of the Governed, rather than the deference of physically and ideologically distant governors. Hell, I read the “work” of a finger wagging scold like this, and it only cements for me the conclusion that we are again in the midst of a Civil War, one which they try to cow us into being too timid to fight, and I …I almost want to get one and fly it, if only to send a clear message to these control freaks who consider themselves to be my betters that there is a limit to their authority, and that I am more than willing to subject myself to their lofty scorn just to remind them of that.

    My wife brought it up when we were driving to Chik-fil-A for lunch today. My son asked me why I’m not offended by it and understand why so many in the south can see it and not associate it with slavery.

    I told him that I used to feel differently, because that’s what I had been taught, having been schooled in the North, but when I got older and read about it, and about how so many of the soldiers who fought under that banner were reduced to wearing rags, going barefoot, and almost starving to death in the later part of the war, the obvious occurred to me: men don’t do that to defend slavery. They don’t do that because they hate their fellow man so much that they are willing to suffer hardship and deprivation in order to keep slaves. Med do that because their home has been invaded. Men do that because they would rather not be dictated to and held hostage by a distant government that increasingly doesn’t reflect common values or ideals. But then career military officers don’t just up and resign their commissions to go fight in a new nation’s military on the basis of defending slavery either.

    It isn’t rocket science, but it would require you to read some things that you might not otherwise be inclined to.

  119. The Condederate Flag shouldn’t be flown by state governments. The war was lost and for every fan of the flag who sees it as a symbol of rebellion and sacrifice there is another who see it as a symbol of the old glorious slave days.

    That flag is waved up here quite a bit too. It’s a vague symbol of unapologetic country boy to some, nigger hatin’ for others.

    I do respect what BiC et al are saying, and I’m not necessarily disagreeing. But considering the circumstances with that flag, knock it off. Replace it with a Don’t Tread on Me Flag or something.

  120. The old Democrats.

    The same Democrats and you’re just serving a different plantation, homey. Working for free and still eating crumbs. Worse, you’re dumber than your ancestors. They actually knew they were being used.

    Thank you, Massa Obama. Yes We Can!

  121. I NEVER know when Pools is gonna call something a false flag event.

    This one appeared legit until I discovered how well the timing and theme seemed to fit the agenda. The facts presented seemed to fall from logic and with very little research I decided the common thread too hard to ignore. Are you familiar with “The Hunger Games” or aware of the medias use of photoshop? This is all getting quite predictable and there are plenty sounding off…

    http://aanirfan.blogspot.com/2015/06/dylann-roof-link-to-sandy-hook-elliot.html

  122. It never ends with you.
    Always desperately trying to find some angle.

    Relax Roofa. I reported the headline. I didn’t say I agreed with its agenda.

    Blacks don’t do “mental illness”. That’s a white thing. Actually supports the headline minus the agenda.

  123. Wait until you see how he blames it on Palin.

    Yeah, didn’t you hear how Roof (not Roofa, that’s Rabbit) jerks off to pics of Palin? She’s a little devil, that one!

  124. BiC I read the FB post that you’ve put here and I must say I’m very puzzled why certain folks are so desperate to make slavery NOT central to the Civil War. This in my view is madness.

  125. I do respect what BiC et al are saying, and I’m not necessarily disagreeing. But considering the circumstances with that flag, knock it off. Replace it with a Don’t Tread on Me Flag or something.

    I hate to risk tempting Rabbit to change his answer but I think he put it very well here.

  126. The same Democrats and you’re just serving a different plantation, homey.

    Actually I’m not so sure I disagree Tex. if you haven’t noticed I’ve been searching for an alternative to the welfare state.

  127. I agree with you DR.

    You do? Oh that’s right. You did start by saying you weren’t a fan of the confederate flag and then followed that up by flogging me for the next 20 comments.

    You’re too much.

  128. Because it was one of several issues, not the only one.

    And there were plenty of soldiers who were fighting, not to free the slaves, but for the Union and a paycheck.

    If you read the history, and not the approved talking points, you’d know that.

  129. And there were plenty of soldiers who were fighting, not to free the slaves, but for the Union and a paycheck.

    While I agree with that, if I made a similar comment about our soldiers fighting abroad today, Tigre would get in line to bitchslap me and then get in line again.

  130. But BiC, I bet if you listed all the issues, most could be easily connected back to slavery. Kinda like six degrees of Kevin Bacon except it would probably be only two or three degrees at most.

  131. The ones that fight for our military today are all volunteers, R.

    There were a whole lot of Union soldiers who were drafted .

    If the soldiers today do it for the paycheck, then they might actually be as dumb as John Kerry and Stephen King think they are. Living, as I do, a stone’s throw from Joint Base Lewis-McChord, I know too many of them to buy this take.

  132. Sorry, 21st century humans are not that different from 19th century humans. If SOME did it for the paycheck then, as you suggested, then SOME are doing it for the paycheck now. It’s not like everybody has all the employment options imaginable in today’s economy.

  133. Rutherford, the fact is that a war, especially one as costly as the Civil War , over slavery was dumb.

    As an institution, it was already dying, and was no longer cost effective. Between that, and the growing hostility to it in the rest of the Union, it was already on the way out.

    But add in trade policy and increasing centralization…

  134. “You do? Oh that’s right. You did start by saying you weren’t a fan of the confederate flag and then followed that up by flogging me for the next 20 comments.

    You’re too much.”

    Unbelievable.

    I asked you to link up the shooting with your asinine MSNBC regurge. Nothing. As always. Instead we hear about your childhood trip to a plantation in Georgia.

    Deep Conclusions by Rutherford Lawson. 🙄

  135. “I know a whole lot of grunts who have done multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan who would beg to differ.”

    Very true.

    Yet, there is another side to the coin and one that isn’t talked about much.

    Thousands of women impregnated out of wedlock, often by more then one dude, enjoying off base military housing and working a lazy job.

    Thousands of dudes who serve for a pay check, a garenteed bed, meals and spending money without much responsibility. Combat not even on the radar. Impregnating those already mentioned militery women.

  136. As BiC , others and I wrote, the Civil war was not over slavery. The United States had two political and economic systems which remained on relatively equal parity as the country spread west. That changed when settlers hit the brick wall of a dry environment from the plains westward. The Southern plantation system could move no further. The North which, though agrarian had a much stronger industrial base which was suited to the new environment.

    The South faced an end to their power and what they considered subjigation to a centralized government which threatened what they considered to be the core value of the American Revolution. The South was pushed into a corner and their only option was to surrender or fight.

    Slavery was part of the economic system, but as BIC wrote it was on the way out. A strong movement to ban slavery was growing, and it had also influenced a small minority of southerners. New technology also would have made removing slavery cost effective. Much of the abolitionist movement was led by Christians. Lincoln and his supporters tried to ignore the issue, but finally abolished slavery as a strategic weapon against the south. Of course, some southerners identified slavery as part of their culture, and suddenly banning it was an attack on who they were as a people.

    So, yes, slavery was an issue, but it was as much a symbol of southern economic and political freedom as it was anything else.On one level it southern support for slavery was like a teenager’s reaction to parents who discouraged him/her from dating a loser.

    The Civil War like most wars was not fought in isolation. European countries were involved too.

    Many men were drafted. Riots damaged New York City and other places. The war, even in the North attracted hostility. We still have my Great Great Grandfather’s draft notice and discharge papers.

    Other men scammed the system. They took money paid to enlistees and once in the service, they absconded. Then, they re-enlisted for the money.multiple times. Another of my ancestors paid someone $500 to serve in his place.

    My niece and her husband served in Iraq and Afghanistan multiple times. I wouldn’t have, but they did. Our daughter’s college room mate also served in Iraq as a truck driver during the invasion. Some of our children’s high school class mates served too. They served in part for a pay check, but they also had patriotic motives.

    Its true many people enlist in part or wholey for the pay. The liberal economic policies which have made jobs harder to find are as much to blame as normal human motivations.

    The left is trying to symplify our history for its own goals.

  137. Come to think of it, I shouldn’t pick on Rutherford’s Deep Conclusions. Who can honestly say that when the heard of the shooting the first thought wasn’t, “it must be that flag — not sure which one — but it’s that flag again.”

    I’m just glad you had the courage to say what none of us were willing to say, not the least of which are the people of Charleston. And to get it right out there — well after John Stewart, and MSNBC and the DNC and Sharpton and anyone else trying to score points through racial, ethnic and regional agitation.

    R, you’re a real thought leader with real insights. Not just an easily manipulated rube that repeats talking points without wondering about the why or the what. No time for Google or contemplation the tears and rage. We can fill that shit in later. Whitey did this!

    The mental image of you climbing a flag pole to tear down that flag, whenever you find out whatever and wherever it is, will be treasured. You’re an inspiration.

    No Justice, No Peace!

    Now, let’s get Palin for her involvement, or extrapolation thingy or whatever.

  138. That’s true, Rabbit. In our families’ case, our niece and her husband repaired Black Hawk helicopters. During their first tour in Afghanistan, our forces were spread so thinly that our niece and her husband also served as helicopter gunners at regular intervals. Our niece had psychiatric treatment after her first tour because she kept seeing dead people.

  139. James, I think the declarations of secession in SC (and here in GA) couldn’t have clearer. It was the Northern refusal to enforce the Fugitive Slave Act, the federal government’s efforts to to abolish slavery and “the increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the Institution of Slavery.”

    While most of what you say is true, the Civil War was over slavery.

  140. “The mental image of you climbing a flag pole to tear down that flag, whenever you find out whatever and wherever it is, will be treasured”

    Lol….Rutherford could be as fit as is gymnast daughter, he still wouldn’t have the balls to rip the flag down “himself”.

    However, if he wants to prove me wrong, my offer still stands.

    Rutherford likes to use these shootings to say ” and all of you caused this”. To him its proof of an evil society that needs to be further engineered by big government. And it’s boring as shit, by now.

    Ten people shot last night in Detroit. Bullets ripping through a bouncy house. Doubt he even knew it happened.

  141. BiC Did you ever read Johnny Reb and Billy Yank? They describe the civil war in the manner that you posted. May have been before your time as I read it for a history class in college.
    Johnny Reb & Billy Yank is an epic novel first published in 1905 by Alexander Hunter, a soldier who served in Confederate General Robert E. Lee Army from 1861 to 1865. The novel is noted for encapsulating most of the major events of the American Civil War, due to Hunter’s obvious involvement in them.

  142. No one will ever be able to understand the mind of the mentally ill except the owner but because we cannot grasp the reasons we continue to analyze.

  143. It was and it wasn’t about slavery. Slavery was the trigger. It was symbolic of the South, and it was the bulwark of the plantation system.

    However, the fissures leading to war were ingrained from the beginning of the republic. As such, a civil war was almost inevitable with or without slavery. In that sense, I believe slavery did not ultimately cause the war. It was a convenient spark.

    Neither of us can prove our hypotheses because we are discussing conjecture.

    I also feel that had the South won, German and or Russian would be major languages here.

  144. I came close to understanding the inner workings of the mentally sick during a short time when most of our squadron was bonkers.

    For that reason, I don’t analyze beyond a few surface features. Let someone else with training do it. People need to understand why people snap and how insanity can be prevented or mitigated.

    Staring into the eye of the beast is not as much fun as it sounds.

  145. Rutherford, the fact is that a war, especially one as costly as the Civil War , over slavery was dumb.

    Oh I could not agree more. And if history is any judge, if Americans are anything, they are supremely dumb.

    Happy Father’s Day to all the dads in the Bar and Grill. Funny, it just occurred to me that one thing all the males here have in common–we’ve all got kids (albeit some older than others).

  146. Instead we hear about your childhood trip to a plantation in Georgia.

    If you’re gonna razz me get your facts straight. Especially since I’ve already corrected you in this thread.

    I wasn’t a kid at the time. I was on business with IBM. And I did not and would not visit the plantation. I saw ads promoting them as tourist attractions. “Come and see Aushwitz!!! Good times! Good times!”

  147. I asked you to link up the shooting with your asinine MSNBC regurge. Nothing.

    there is no direct link. I never said there was. But the one incident prompts a discussion of the other. It’s called looking at the bigger picture. Imagine that!!!!

  148. Another friend said something this morning that put it in context for me.

    “The US has always existed as a voluntary association.”

    Except when it didn’t. And that is truly the nub of why that flag won’t go away, and why it so consternates our lefty betters.

  149. “It’s called looking at the bigger picture. Imagine that!!!!”

    It’s called MSNBC, Blondie. The “bigger picture” that brought us Palin being responsible for Giffords.

    Have you figured out how to pull back and see how Whitey. . . er, “The South” (dun, dun, dun). . . might have something to do with Ferguson? You know, slavery and shit. From other “big picture” standpoints, like plantation billboards from your educational journey through “The South” (dun, dun, dun).

    Your bigger picture is a cartoon.

    DR, I’ll chip in a few for the airline ticket. I’d like to know the itinerary so I can be there to film Rutherford hanging by his underwear from a flagpole after his lessers get a hold of him.

  150. The left is trying to symplify our history for its own goals.

    I beg to differ. Revisionist historians, wishing to white wash (pardon the pun) our racist past obfuscate the matter with all the “complexities”.

    Virtually every reason for the civil war leads back to slavery.

    Economics: slavery
    Sovereign states rights: slavery
    Culture: slavery

    The north was not asking the south to stop eating grits and gravy. They were asking the south to stop treating fellow humans like possessions — slavery.

  151. “The north was not asking the south to stop eating grits and gravy. They were asking the south to stop treating fellow humans like possessions — slavery.”

    Oy vey.

  152. The war was over political and economic power. Slavery was in the dispute because it was part of southern culture and economics . The North was asking the South to forsake its concept of decentralzed power. Your list associated with slave holding includes much more than slavery.

    “Oy vey.”

    I’m staying loyal to Rutherford for as long as he is here. I found another site in case he retires. Political Forum.com.

  153. This is sort of off topic, but I include it because Rutherford did comment on brave conservatives possibly fighting in the Civil War.

    As I wrote, one of my ancestors was a prisoner at Andersonville. His head was messed up when he was freed, and he decided to walk all the way back home to New York. No one knew where he was and they decided he was dead.

    He finally walked into his home town and noticed there was more than normal activity He got a hair cut and asked what was happening. The barber told him the city was holding a memorial service for all of the soldiers killed in the war.

    My ancestor attended the service and heard his name called in the roll. The story stops short of telling us what he did next.

  154. I beg to differ. Revisionist historians, wishing to white wash (pardon the pun) our racist past obfuscate the matter with all the “complexities”.

    Backwards, and demonstrably false, as ever.

    This is why original source documents matter. The revisionists were the proggies who wrote their texts at the turn of the LAST century, all citing to each other in a very incestuous and dishonest way, because the origina source documents didn’t bear out their conclusions, which were always meant to change perceptions of the history by obfuscating the truth. It was the beginning of “the feels” as a basis for staking out a position in discourse on all things, because it allowed the subject to wrap themself in the mantle of a moral authority that was never earned, and only evident by the depth of the claimant’s sense of deep offense and conviction that those who oppose them are not just wrong, but EVIL, which then excuses the claimant from the difficult chore of responding to the opposition on the merits of their opposition. It’s lazy, and easy, which is why it is so prevalent today.

    It is also why those claiming it are so dangerous to the very notion of freedom itself, because they believe that their is no response that can be proposed that is out-of-bounds. If they feel that they unquestionably hold the moral highground, then their is nothing that the entity which validates their feelings can do which is repugnant and contradictory to its duty to continue to guarantee liberty. And because government is increasingly the only lens through which this dubious morality is defined, government itself becomes increasingly susceptible to the technique. One need look no further than the unscripted statements of agency heads, and judicial decisions, such as the majority decision in the Windsor case, in which a Supreme Court Justice claimed a divine omnisicnce by a perfunctory declaration that the only possible reason the entire Congress, and a President could pass a law, and the minority seek to uphold it is for a purely discriminatory purpose, rooted in a [morally] unacceptable prejudice, despite a purpose to the contrary, clearly set forth in the law itself.

    It’s why our betters are always after symbols they don’t like. It’s why they speak glibly of jailing global warming deniers. It’s why they talk of banning speech and views that they don’t like. And it’s why they cast all of it in terms of a crusade and another campaign in their war to make people better, as they would define it, despite the fact that they continually prove that they possess neither the authority, or the consistency to do so.

  155. We are at war so far without bullets or explosions. Our inferiors always go after symbols they don’t like to create new norms favoring them. They subtly are trying to alter the way we think and see the world.It is their way or no way.

  156. “The US has always existed as a voluntary association.”

    No scholarly research but a quick Google reveals the Founders wanted secession as an option. I believe it was Jefferson who said if the states were compelled to stay together that stress alone would tear the union apart.

    But quick Googling also revealed that the Supreme Court has tended to view secession as unconstitutional.

    Anyone smarter, please correct me if I’m wrong.

  157. Jesus, Rutherford, what is it with ambulance-chasers that they have to create conflict everywhere, even when it’s unnecessary?

    Oh, I forgot – that’s how they make their living – creating conflict.

    Think of it as Sharpton-and-Jackson light.

  158. You are wrong, Rutherford. Slavery was an element, but the war was more than slavery. That part of my comment is not conjecture. The only uncertainty is the results of circumstances changed for the sake of discussion.

    Carefully read the documents you posted. They support my point that slavery was only the manifestation of a more basic issue.

    Yes, the Supreme Court has viewed secession as unconstitutional, but it “don’t mean nothin” if the court and other branches of government have been corrupted.

    Our government rules by the consent of the people. If it refuses to adhere to the general rules accepted by the majority of voters, they have a right to take it down. Southerners reached that point before the Civil War as they tested the Constitution through violence.

    The only reason they are regarded as traitors or examples of the illegality of secession is that they lost the war. Brute force does settle disputes as the Union Army did during the war. The Northern military, not the Supreme Court made secession illegal. Without the implied power of force and tradition, the Supreme Court is whistling in the wind.

    I have no love for the Confederacy and my family did what it could to defeat its government, but to say it was only about slavery is simplistic and wrong.

  159. I love it. Have yuze guys recognized that your brushing on the very dispute that caused the Civil War?

    R, you could use a little more Lincoln to make your case.

    James, notwithstanding what I said earlier, you make your case and it is not at all “wrong.” Our propositions are not inconsistent, though I do think you deemphasize the role of slavery too much.

    The confederates were as impassioned and steadfast in their view of the role of the federal governent as the Revolutionaries. To apply the modern progressive civil rights sensibilities to it as a complete abstraction, and frankly not all useful to true understanding. Dumbing down history is all it is.

  160. Cocktail Dundee, got anymore of those really clever pejoratives? Boy the cyte and slack have everyone doubled over. That’s a sterling wit that can only be found among the unemployed weekday afternoon bar crowd. I’m sure the “beer-thirty” line gets a laugh with your friends every time. Good stuff.

  161. Rutherford, in honor of your bigotry, I am at Stone Mountain Park as I type grilling ribs while my kids playwith the other kids. This place is everything you think you despise. Practically a Civil War honorarium. Blacks and whites everywhere doing the same. Camo and Do-rags enjoying Father’s Day together excorcising a racist past.

  162. I’m curious if any of the pro-stars & bars folks have the time to offer up the reason for the flags longevity. I personally think it is all about pride and defiance.

  163. The confederates were as impassioned and steadfast in their view of the role of the federal governent as the Revolutionaries. To apply the modern progressive civil rights sensibilities to it as a complete abstraction, and frankly not all useful to true understanding. Dumbing down history is all it is.

    No one is applying modern civil rights concepts. Just as the revolutionaries told the British you’re not going to tax us without our having some say in it, the South said, you’re not gonna dictate how we run our economy. Who died and made you boss? We’re sovereign states and if want TO OWN PEOPLE LIKE PROPERTY we will and fuck you and the horse you came in on.

    Now as I said before, we were not viewed as intrusive because we didn’t like their culture. Culture is grits and gravy. We didn’t like their SLAVERY and they did and said fuck you.

    There’s no modern civil rights spin. The north wanted the country to go one way, the south the other. It could have been about taxation (as with the revolutionaries) but it wasn’t. It was about slavery.

  164. Blacks and whites everywhere doing the same. Camo and Do-rags enjoying Father’s Day together excorcising a racist past.

    Sounds idyllic. As I presumed earlier, Southern blacks have done a dandy job of ignoring the past being flaunted in their faces. God bless them and God bless America!

  165. I would add to honor their ancestors and heritage too. That is not something people will let go of without a fight.

  166. As I watch the coverage of Charleston on Face the Nation I’m reminded of Rabbits constant harangue. More blacks were shot by other blacks in Chicago and Detroit last week than were killed in that church yet to listen to the NAACP leader on FTN you’d think white supremacists are black peoples biggest problem.

    It is interesting that blacks seem less interested in protecting themselves from themselves than from whites.

    I’m not minimizing bigotry. But is that the leading cause of black death?

  167. ‘But is that the leading cause of black death?”

    Leading cause? More akin to lightening strikes.

  168. Rutherford and El Tigre, we have begun to meet on common ground.

    Slavery was necessary to run civilizations until the Industrial Revolution. The agrarian South could not survive without slaves while the more industrialized North could. Holding others is immoral of course, but at the time, slave holding was more economic than a feature of morality.

    The Stars and Stripes were regarded by southerners as representative of overbearing northerners. They naturally clung to the flag which they had fought for.

    Populations have long memories. The British and the Irish still have ambivalent feelings toward each other, for example.

  169. I would add to honor their ancestors and heritage too.

    Yeah I completely get that. My buddy Wolfgang Hitler (I call him Wolfie for short) honors his great great grandfather every year on Father’s Day. 😄

  170. Their uniforms and medals are perfectly good symbols of their service abd sacrafice.

    Yes yes. Shame the Black Panthers, Weather Underground and Symbionese Liberation Army didn’t have badges. Or maybe they did.

    You seem to suggest any soldier fighting for any cause deserves our reverence and honor.

    You should be ashamed of yourself putting the Confederate soldier on a par with the soldier in Iraq or Vietnam. Twisted dude.

  171. It’s worth noting (I just learned this today) the battle flag wasn’t raised until 1961 … read that again my friends … 1961. Why? As a fuck you to desegregation.

    There goes your “culture, history and pride” argument right out the window.

  172. “You seem to suggest any soldier fighting for any cause deserves our reverence and honor.”

    You seem to be as sharp as a bowling ball.

    Yes, I know. You expect shame from these people you don’t understand, many of which fought in these other wars you detest. Those dumb racist hicks that know their ancestors and culture “have got NOTHING to be proud of.”

    Maybe when you choose to think like an adult you’ll take a stab at trying to understand why the huge numbers of southerners that revere their confederate ancestors also fight and revere those that fought the other wars most consider noble except your dumb progressive thought leaders. I have. I feel like a fool for having been as shallow and ignorant as you expecting the detached shame you expect. What you think is so simple ‘taint so.

    You keep on peeing on everyone’s leg and tell them it’s raining with the “bigger picture” horseshit. Anyone with a brain knows why you and your thought leaders have connected the flag to the Charleston shooting. That’s what’s twisted little man.

  173. “There goes your “culture, history and pride” argument right out the window.”

    Yaaaaawn. There goes any proof of your ability to read.

    Best part? We had part of this discussion in the past when I pointed that out to you.

    Quite an epiphany my uninitiated and poorly-read friend. It was when I explained to you why I thought the flag should not fly.

  174. Round and round and round we go. Cyclic I say.

    Rutherford, we did cover this ground before. Or maybe that was programming…

    As they say, when you snews, you lose. 😛

  175. Happy Father’s Day all dads!

    [It’s still Sunday for another near hour here.]
    a cool 90 degrees dry and clear.

  176. Trust that the victors wrote the accepted history and trust that war did not change deeply held convictions, Rutherford, believe that our current dominators are communist or fascist or dictatorial tyrants or any other descriptive word you chose. Slavery is still daily life for anyone in debt. You may not get beat, but you damned sure get beat down.

  177. Say What? I resemble that remark, Rutherford.

    Any soldier fighting for any cause as long as he/she obeys rules and is not a criminal deserves our honor and reverence. Of course, some deserve to be dead and we should kill them as they try to kill us, but we can honor them as worthy opponents while we pull the trigger. Soldiers didn’t create policy. They were instruments and tools of their governments.

    For example, a soldier killed a Viet Cong solder in Vietnam. He went through his stuff and looked at his wallet. Inside were pictures and letters from his parents and from his girl friend.

    When we lived in England, we knew a German who had been drafted at age 16. He was forced to fight on the Eastern Front. When he returned home, his parents and older brother who had also been a soldier were dead, and his house only had three walls. He found a tarp and burned wood to keep himself warm as he scavenged for food.

    He became a successful businessman who lived with our librarian, my wife’s boss.

    The Confederate soldiers were the same. Ken Burns made a Civil War documentary. Letters from both sides were interchangable. The soldiers missed their families and didn’t want to let down their fellow soldiers. Mostly, they wanted to be home.

    You can still honor a worthy opponent and be gratful the enemy is dead.

    It is oppressive today. We had a high of 90 and the low was 78. A cold front has caused severe thunderstorms north of us and a few are developing 50 miles west. it may be a little cooler behind the front.

    A local family celebrated Fathers Day at a lake. The girls were in danger, and the father jumped in to save them, though none of them could swim. Bystanders rescued the girls, but the girls drowned.

  178. This is one of the topics that seem to come up in a cycle here. I am only commenting further because I think I’m getting a whiff of the “North went to war for slavery”. The North was all about preserving the Union and this had international implications so politically and strategically the North didn’t really care about abolishing slavery that was going to be a side benefit for the morality crowd and something that heading into the election cycle got a headline,again for the morals vote.

  179. Alfie, I think you’ve pretty much got it right. And the South at least in large part was opposed to Federal overreach in at least the way they perceived it. Slavery was obviously a driving issue, but this was a battle of political ideology and wills as well – not too terribly different IMO from what we are watching now. States fed up with federal mandates.

    I find Rutherford is perhaps the most insular man I’ve ever read. And the two most insular towns I’ve ever been in and around are your stomping grounds and the Pacific coastline. The entire states are not that way.

  180. Something really, really good could come from Charleston. . .

    and MSNBC will do all it can to be sure that it doesn’t.

  181. Thanks Alfie. Re- writing history to help an agenda is disgusting and dangerous. That is happening now. Northern liberals have harbored regional bigotry toward the South for years. This Confederacy flag issue is as much about liberal intolerance as it is black sensibilities.

    At one point, Lincoln supported moving blacks back to Africa. Many did move to Liberia.

  182. On the matter of bedfellows and biased reporting I see the next page is being waved in front of the masses.
    The breaking news as it were that Roof cites the Council of Conservative Citizens in his alleged manifesto and that the group has donated upwards of $65k to GOP candidates is telling.
    On one hand people right and left have a history of finding some really creepy types in their beds. That said as money flows into a campaign treasury box I don’t think it is fair to believe $ ties are guaranteed or binding.
    So yet another group of people pounce on the deaths of the people in Charleston to gain something no matter how much it needs to be fluffed up.
    Obama has continued his anti-gun prattle bringing out the “gun” I think he’ll be using the rest of his tenure. “I didn’t say Yes I Can I said Yes WE can. So all failures past,present and future are on YOU the voter for failing to do more than electing a false Messiah. Too much.

  183. Alfie, I understand the GOP distanced itself from the so-called Council of Conservative Citizens long ago labeling it a hate group with which it didn’t want to be associated.

  184. These people were treated like blacks not so many years ago. Some were even enslaved. They still hold a grudge as some southerners do for what they regard as mistreatment and victimization. Blacks also hold a grudge for what they endured.

    The Confederate flag is an inanimate object, much like a gun. It can’t tell someone to shoot black church members. It is a symbol and nothing more.

    I’m giving another video because this discussion irritates me. Liberals should know better.

    Liberals have become ghoulish blood suckers. However, they are less to culpable than the voters who put them into office.

  185. We may have a bigger problem brewing in this country than Obama. I’ve recently experienced it in my own home state and it is certainly happening in Texas. California is falling apart including an extreme drought. Most of the nation seems to be unaware of this and I hear very little in the news.

    Kind of a Wrath of Grapes….Californication of otherwise fine states, like a plague of locusts browning the green fields like they have Nevada, New Mexico, Colorado over the last 20 years.

    I told my Texas friends we desperately need legislation to keep these maggots out. If you haven’t been registered ten years as Republican, detour their sorry asses into the Mexican Desert – and don’t let them turn Left to send them to Oklahoma, Kansas and Nebraska.

    We need another Civil War as far as I’m concerned if this trend keeps up. I don’t want these POS in my neighborhood.

  186. What Rutherford doesn’t understand about human nature is the more you demand and attack the culture of people, the more the resentment builds. The more you try to generalize a symbol to blame people (Stars & Bars) with a broad brush, the more hatred you stoke.

    They think they can beat these people down with the corrupt NYC and Washington media. They are wrong.

  187. Our son and daughter in law live in California. If they didn’t own their house and our son didn’t have a well-paying computer job they would leave too.

    Some of his co- workers have been sent to Texas by the company. Our son used to argue politics with one who is a liberal.

    Mexicans fly the national flag here at times. Why is no one complaining about that?

    We are about to return to Omaha. Our grand daughter talked to me on the phone as our daughter visited. Our grand daughter said “Opaw Opaw.” “I want money.” and “I want weather map.” I have taught her well.

  188. “What Rutherford doesn’t understand about human nature is the more you demand and attack the culture of people, the more the resentment builds. The more you try to generalize a symbol to blame people (Stars & Bars) with a broad brush, the more hatred you stoke.

    They think they can beat these people down with the corrupt NYC and Washington media. They are wrong.” -Tex

    Bingo!

  189. The more Rutherford writes the more he convinces that even if for example the flag should be removed from the state house. he is so wrongheaded about it it’s hard to be on the same side with him – even if you started there.

  190. @ET yeah Ted Cruz for example is sending back the donation. My point is there is press trying to stoke anti-GOP sentiment based on a non-connection. Amazing! I know both sides sling mud its just galling.

  191. It was when I explained to you why I thought the flag should not fly.

    Soooo you’re admitting that you are arguing for the sake of arguing. You acknowledge the flag is a pure defiance stunt, not a goddam cultural aspect to it, and that it should come down.

    See that. We agree after all.

  192. Rutherford, you are clearly retarded or illiterate.

    “You acknowledge the flag is a pure defiance stunt, not a goddam cultural aspect to it, and that it should come down.”

    I said no such thing. You think because I think the flag should not fly over the capital there’s no cultural aspect to it?

    The flag existed long before 1962, you moron. Believe it or not, there’s more than one of ’em.

    This is too tough for you? Holy fuck. Just quit it. You’re really embarrassing yourself.

  193. “North went to war for slavery”

    Nope. I’m not commenting on the motives of the North nor those of Lincoln himself who was reportedly ambivalent about black people.

    My comments are confined to the South and the bullshit notion that slavery was not the overwhelming reason for their leaving the union and fighting and dying to preserve their way of life.

  194. MSNBC will do all it can to be sure that it doesn’t.

    Agreed. Their big sister NBC tried to bait a Charleston mourning family into a political discussion on Meet the Press. The family was having NONE of it and Chuck Todd looked like an idiot.

    Tex maybe I missed it but I don’t think I’ve seen you comment on the Charleston blacks and how they contrast with Ferguson. Do they restore your faith at all that not all blacks are baiters?

  195. What an utterly stupid conversation this has become. The flag didn’t make Dylannnnnn shoot anyone. No one ever said it did. Dylannnnn was a racist in a state that still proudly waves a flag that reminds MANY of racism. So while we search for something to DO other than just mourn and move on, the removal of the flag is a start.

    Regarding guns, I’ve given up on any progress there. 20 dead kids meant NOTHING. We didn’t want to disturb gun “culture”.

    So funny how “culture” is the excuse for so much foolishness, from everyone having a gun, to blacks embracing gangsta rap.

    Some culture is superior to others. If I’m a snob to say so, then so be it.

  196. We need another Civil War as far as I’m concerned if this trend keeps up. I don’t want these POS in my neighborhood.

    😂😂😂😂

    Have any of you noticed that when a nutjob kills a bunch of folks, we find some ramblings on the net, written by the nutjob and we call it a “manifesto”? I’m always amused when these stream of consciousness brain dumps get elevated to “manifesto”.

    So do you all realize that when Tex finally snaps and shoots up the local KFC, his collected comments on the Bar and Grill will become his “manifesto”?

    Tex want me to do you a favor and collect your greatest hits and publish them as one huge post … errr … manifesto?

  197. “So while we search for something to DO other than just mourn and move on, the removal of the flag is a start.”

    Hahahaha. You’re just a ignorant bigot. Exploit and appropriate. Nothing more. All you’re “doing” is blaming white southerners for this shooting. Just like you blamed Palin for Giffords.

    Go clean up your own backyard. You got boatloads of murders everyday. Go “Do” something about it. SC doesn’t need or want you.

  198. The flag existed long before 1962, you moron.

    Why can’t you stop the bullshit? The flag was NOT placed on top of the Capitol dome because of a sudden burst of nostalgia or reverence. When it was finally moved off the dome to a still conspicuous location, the accompanying thought was “off the dome and in your face”.

    I don’t give a flying fuck if the flag is 500 years old. It was used in 1961 as a racist symbol of defiance.

    STOP DEFENDING THE INDEFENSIBLE.

  199. SC doesn’t need or want you.

    You’re either a sellout or a suck up. A couple of decades down South and you abandon your principles. You weren’t wrong when you lived up North. You were right. I have to assume your new found “enlightenment” is the price of assimilation. You’re so eager to be a slap on the back good ole boy, you’ve lost your moral barometer.

    And the easy answer is to suggest I condemn all Southerners. It’s a cartoon you create to distract. The whites and blacks mourning together in Charleston proves their decency. I know folks are the same all over the country. Decent people in Mississippi and virulent bigots in Chicago. I’m not stupid.

    It’s time for the South to reevaluate its traditions and decide which ones deserve to endure and which ones need to go to a museum.

  200. GO READ ALFIE’S QUESTION AGAIN, YOU FOOL.

    Better yet, tell me WHAT I AM DEFENDING. The truth? That the Stars and Bars is embedded in southern cultural, that it’s viewed a sense nostalgia, that it represents more than racisim and slavery to many? Those are truisms. You’ve offered ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to refute that, just a “it shouldn’t be.”

    This might be the 5th time I’ve said it right here: I believe the flag should come down.

    I am supposed to deny what the symbolism represents to people here to feed your arrogance and false perception of moral superiority? Not gonna do it. I will not do is defend your childish ignorance and faux rage. Your MSNBC induced tantrum and indictment of the people of SC as a response to the shooting is shameful. So too is your fucked-up argument FOR ignorance.

  201. “You’re so eager to be a slap on the back good ole boy, you’ve lost your moral barometer.”

    You got me nailed, bigot. That’s what I’ve done. Sought the approval of Southerners by commenting on your blog.

    And yet you still think they want and need you’re exploitation. Fan the flames, fan the flames, fan the flames. It’s all you know.

    And not one thing “done” that would prevent it from happening again or comfort those effected.

    Sad.

  202. Tex want me to do you a favor and collect your greatest hits and publish them as one huge post … errr … manifesto?

    😆 Only if you can get my mug picture posted on Drudge with a Banner that reads “Rutherford’s Lawson’s Bar & Grill’ behind me. Would make a heck of a manifesto, though. 😈

    I never thought all blacks race baiters. But I’ll crown the church members saints six months from now when the reality of the loss sets in and they are still talking forgiveness. Anybody want to take bets that this forgiveness stage turns to anger before it is over with? That race talk of white privilege and hatred begins to predominate the conversation six months from now with respect to Charleston? That the killings are used as a club to justify bad behavior? That blacks and whites are not singing Halleluia together in Charleston? Anybody remember forgiveness followed by burn this bitch down in Ferguson?

    This flag issue is only a hint to demands to come.

    I’ve seen this act before. Nobody is picking up on this disconnect between the black preacher and the party he supported in title and position.

    Let us not forget the Democratic Party in large part booed the mention of “God” in the suggestion to their 2012 platform. More so, Planned Parenthood, a predator of minority babies, is akin to the Democratic Party.

    As a Christian, I cannot and will not support a position with any political party that is affiliated with sheer evil and boos the Almighty. And I would love to hear these saints explain away that inconsistency in message vs. vote.

    Think about these things, Rutherford. No matter what you say about the Bush family, have you ever read of them while serving cheating on the wives with not much more than school girls? Or foundation cheats? And yet, this congregation I bet voted lockstep with Clinton mania. Who supports the euphemism gay marriage?

    These are fundamental differences in values that cannot be explained away and are antithetical to Christ.

  203. That the Stars and Bars is embedded in southern cultural, that it’s viewed a sense nostalgia, that it represents more than racisim and slavery to many?

    Fine. That’s true. Now they need to get over it.

    Everybody needs to fast forward to 2015. It ain’t 1861 anymore. So that means two things: all remnants of the slave state go in a museum AND Northerners STOP accusing modern Southerners of racism and bigotry with a broad brush.

    Let’s all grow the fuck up and move into the future as ONE country. We are STILL fighting the fucking Civil War.

  204. … or comfort those effected.

    I’m not so sure about that. Many folks want that flag down and I can easily imagine one of the kin of the dead saying “well at least SOMETHING good came of this senseless murder”.

  205. Just so we are clear, I am not talking about any individual’s right to have the battle flag on their front lawn or car window or license plate. I oppose the tacit embrace of a former racist government by the STATE.

  206. Anybody remember forgiveness followed by burn this bitch down in Ferguson?

    Actually no. There was never any sense of forgiveness in Ferguson.

    As for the rest of your comment, sounds a bit like you agree with the guy who said Pinckney’s politics is what (deservedly) got him killed.

    I’m a bit sad to see that race trumps religion for you on this. I thought you would find those bail hearing statements moving. Your mistrust of blacks drowned out what they had to say.

    Funny thing is the most proselytizing statement of all was the one that brought a tear to my eye. Dude told Dylannnnn (and I paraphrase) “ask for Christ’s help and you can find a better path”. Dude’s relative was killed by this scumbag and he STILL thought the fucker could find salvation.

    That’s powerful even to a “religious bigot” like me.

  207. Rutherford so just you know there are those that fly the Mexican flag very much due to Mexican nationalism,i.e. “give it back Viva AZTLAN”!

  208. Let me be the first to say on behalf of the people of SC, thank you for your benevolence, Rutherford. 😆

  209. I am not being silly, Rutherford. The Mexican flag has been used as a nationalistic statement as Alfie wrote.

    I am happy for another reason. Do you remember on that other blog when Lori threatened Tex with legal action for cyber bullying, and I told her if she did, my lawyer would slap her with legal action in kind, because I had more grounds for charges than anyone else?

    Do you remember how she folded? She also fancied herself a political savant who knew Wendy Davis was the road to a Democratic majority in Texas. She also knew the Castro brothers were part of the new order. Well, Julian Castro’s hand picked successor after he left to work for the government lost the mayoral election in San Antonio.

    One writer noted that Texas Democrats have more problems than they choose to admit. The election showed that even big cities can express conservative social values.

    For a time, I dropped out of the other blog and told them when I was right with insults and assurance that I would not be around to read their responses. Sadly, I can’t do that now. The last time I checked in January, the site was dead except for a few people I liked.

    High five to Rutherford. You won and they lost. They are suffering somewhere.

    I think not flying the Confederate flag over the South Carolina state house is a good decision, but private owners will continue to display their flag. The government cannot legislate attitudes and values, at least not over a short time.

  210. Actually no. There was never any sense of forgiveness in Ferguson.

    Then your memory is short. But I already knew that. As to the rest of your message, you read what you wanted to read, another indicator of why you’re not terribly bright and unteachable, always choosing poorly.

    But you did get one thing right. You’re right I don’t trust Black Churches anymore when it comes to being “healers…” I think they’re as phony as you are about these ‘reconciliation’ messages. Hope & Change!

  211. Everybody needs to fast forward to 2015. It ain’t 1861 anymore.

    It ain’t 1964 either – pass that on to the black bigots.

    So that means two things: all remnants of the slave state go in a museum AND Northerners STOP accusing modern Southerners of racism and bigotry with a broad brush.

    We’ll follow your lead.

    Let’s all grow the fuck up and move into the future as ONE country. We are STILL fighting the fucking Civil War.

    Wrong. You’re still fighting the Civil War. Virtually all whites moved on, but the grievance hustlers of which you have played no small part, can’t afford to move on. Bigots like Obama and Holder have assured that won’t happen.

  212. “Just so we are clear, I am not talking about any individual’s right to have the battle flag on their front lawn or car window or license plate.”

    And connecting the shooting to the flag (the connection you claimed doesn’t exist before does now, thank you).

    And using the shooting to stroke your sense of moral superiority.

    And billboards and stuff.

    You gonna tackle the high rate of heart disease in the South? Why the fuck not? You care about it as much about high cholesterol among Southerners as you did the flag in SC 3 days ago. It’d be something positive. Heart disease is a serious issue. Gotta do something. 🙄

    “The north was not asking the south to stop eating grits and gravy. They were asking the south to stop treating fellow humans like possessions — slavery.” -Rutherford

    “Nope. I’m not commenting on the motives of the North nor those of Lincoln himself who was reportedly ambivalent about black people.” -Also Rutherford in the very same thread.

    LOL. Even though your bigotry is so transparent, you are at least learning something about history that you never learned in grade school around here. Like Schoolhouse Rock for bigots.

    When you’re done wringing all you can out of this one, are you going to do anything about the serious problems — well, in addition to heart disease? MSNBC will be moving on. You still have elections to win. Or should we wait for the next massacre?

  213. That’s powerful even to a “religious bigot” like me.

    I predict that “power” won’t last a week if it is not already flushed before you’re back to square 1 with the same bylines propagandizing about Christians and pushing the MSNBC message, Pontius Rutherford. Let me push a few buttons, and it it won’t last a day. 😈

    Can the mendacious shit. And I don’t really care if this pisses you off. The flag issue once again demonstrated you’re a fucking sheep with a predilection for stirring the pot. Until this week, I had never given a thought to the Stars & Bars. I will now buy one. The bullying and overreach are my biggest concerns – not black “feelings” and certainly not gutless, pandering politicians.

    Here’s what I’ve got to say. If Nikki Haley represents the new Republican Party? Time for me to find another party. Seriously. That was pure Dim politics – phony as hell. Pandering. Give one inch, they’ll take a mile.

    I’ve gotten to the point give me some sincerity, even from some teeth gnashing liberal. That’s all I ask. Maybe Bernie Sanders is the best choice. And least he’s sincere in his goals of predictable failure.

  214. Rutherford, Tex is saying you liberals will erode what transpired in the court room.

    It’s already turned into the assinine Neil Young song.

    Southern man
    better keep your head
    Don’t forget
    what your good book said
    Southern change
    gonna come at last….blah blah blah

    How cpuld it not. Black churches are completely highjacked by the evil left.

    I hope Tex is dead wrong.

    This man bites dog incident in Charleston will be flipped on it’s head and the liberal grinder will continue to export the expedient racial war in order to scar society. Scars are your life blood. Hate.

    You guys will continue to hurt this country with your fiction that white people are a threat to black people.

    This is the most laughable assertion imaginable. All you have to do is look stats already padded by the FBI (Hispanics become whites…wink wink..I wonder why).

    You miserable, evil fucks don’t bat an eye over thousands upon thousands of black, young bodies piled in the street. They are nobodys to you becuase they force you to question the last 50 years of social engineering.

    But you will pick up any oddity possible to keep the division bitter.

    Out of 350 million, some unstable people like Dylannnnnn will counter your false charges by giving you exactly what you want. So…annually, you will get a few needed Reichstag fires. When they don’t burn, you simply will make them up Gentle Giant style.

    Your collective boner over this murder makes me sick.

    Black lives do matter, you fucking sheltered coward.

  215. Just like many before, dot connectors have provided new perspective to this psyop…

    So, in fact, the lust for money was the motivation for this hoax, or at least partially so. There are other factors such as the promotion of one world government through the false representation of white against black crime. It’s a reaction-solution hoax, where, now, all people are to join together in love, holding hands, praising God, while working as one to ‘get the guns off the streets.’

    http://nodisinfo.com/hard-proof-s-c-deaths-faked-financial-gain/

    Maybe that is why it is so easy for them to forgive.

  216. Rabbit,

    Rutherford’s new crusade is like every other crusade, substituting flag for Palin. It’s the chic thing to do among the posturing buffoons of progressive politic, assisted by weak ninnies like Haley and Graham.

    It’s the equivalent putting a bumper sticker on your car or tweeting a hashtag to demonstrate the sincerity of your pursuit as Social Justice Warrior not to be trifled with, committed to changing the world one Brave Heart toothpick at a time. 🙄

    Now do you understand why the military guys loathe these types?

    Yes We Can!

  217. Poolman….you are a sick

    For years you’ve been calling every victim of these mass shootings actors. Essentially, they don’t exist.

    You are sick sick sick. Nobody calls you out for this mental depravity?

    Either you come on here to secretly fantasize about the grand conspiracy.

    Or your loved ones don’t give a shit about you and allow you to spread this filth.

    Scarier yet, your wife and kids are as dumb as you are. I bet 3.

  218. Rabbit, you are dense. For years they have been having active drills whenever these events take place, but you still believe in coincidence and feary tales…

  219. but private owners will continue to display their flag. The government cannot legislate attitudes and values, at least not over a short time.

    Agreed and private display is clearly protected by the First Amendment and I am free to call those people assholes.

    James the Mexican flag thing was in my blind spot. Thanks to you and Alfie for giving me some homework.

  220. University of Texas students call for the removal of a Jefferson Davis statue from campus …

    Really funny how we have no problem butting our nose into another country and toppling the statue of their leader but someone suggests we take down a statue of the enemy of OUR country and folks like Rabbit crap their pants.

  221. Wait until we start toppling the statues of Dear Leader Obama when we are through after we vandalize them for a time.

    I’ll be the one beating Obama’s stone head with a shoe as its broken body is dragged through the streets. That is orgasmic to think about you watching me do that, howling in misery crying out razist razisssst!

    Ahhhhhhh…….

    The chickens will have come home to roost…

  222. I have to say that yet again I find Americans sloth like in their lack of originality. The statue of Jefferson Davis as well as the other statues @ UT date back to the early 1900’s and were meant to be part of an elaborate display of statuary. For the most part the subject selections had no real ties to the school.
    The lack of originality comes in as this is far on the heels of the South Africans getting their dumb ass on at Capetown with the whole #Rhodesmustfall scandal. The FUCKING GUY GAVE THEM THE SCHOOL!!!!
    Anyways I will only offer the Germans and Russians as case studies regards the wisdom of stripping culture and history away instead of exploring the narratives available. It takes some time but the back lash doth come.

  223. regards the wisdom of stripping culture and history away instead of exploring the narratives available. It takes some time but the back lash doth come.

    History belongs in history books and museums. Bad history in particular should not be celebrated in the backdrop of everyday life.

  224. I don’t know anything about SC legislative procedure so I’m wondering if Haley (or anyone) can call the legislature into session. If Haley can do that, she has not done so which makes yesterday’s speech nothing but theater. The legislature is not scheduled to convene again until December. As my mom used to quote “there’s a whole lotta drinks between now and Christmas”. I’d put even money, when this disappears from the news in six months (err, days) the SC legislature does nothing or votes against moving the flag.

    If I am right that the legislature has not been called into session to do this NOW, then we are really a bunch of chumps oooing and aaaahing over Nikki Haley.

  225. Alfie, you’re right. Rutherford is simply not deep enough to understand how he continues to make things worse for blacks and progressives in this country. He was raised in a sheltered existence and truly has relationships are virtually non existent. He just does not understand the human condition.

    regards the wisdom of stripping culture and history away instead of exploring the narratives available. It takes some time but the back lash doth come

    Stoke that hatred, Rutherford. More people will die on account of it as the resentment builds. And I said previously, “The real losers will be black America.” The sympathies are waning and the hatred is growing. I hope you’re a lot badder than you’ve led me to believe.

  226. ” He just does not understand the human condition.” -T

    One of the main reasons I come to gawk at this train wreck.

    I say this completely apolitically and nonpartisan.

    The guy has no fucking clue about the human condition.

    None.

    I’ve been fascinated about this aspect with him for some time.

  227. @ Rutherford you’re missing the lesson I’ve offered.
    As for SC Governor…I do believe they are one of the least potent governors. I remember Sanford pre-adultery gate went to some serious extremes to push the legislators since his office didn’t really have juice. One episode had him walking pigs into the assembly to protest pork.

  228. This is just too laughable. A couple of guys think blacks should just suck it up so white southerners are not robbed of their culture and I am the one who doesn’t understand the human condition.

    No boys, I don’t understand white racist “condition”.

  229. As for SC Governor…I do believe they are one of the least potent governors.

    I believe this is true of Texas also. Its interesting just how different the various states are.

  230. @ Rutherford I think a point that is being missed in the “debate” is that the symbolism (flag) can mean different things to different people. I think discussing and having an evolution of the real issues is superior to attacking a symbol which will become stronger,especially for those who want to use it in its most negative manner.
    As for my earlier “lesson” let me just round out the primer as it were. Putin is a result of cultural upheaval in Russia and he embraces the losses to espouse the nationalistic fervor that allows for things like the Crimea and Eastern Ukraine campaign. There is a host of other issues including Sochi,FIFA etc.
    As for Germany its new right falls back into neo-Nazi stylings not out of forlorn for Hitler or anti-semitism but identity. Not feeling ashamed to be German simply because of 1933-1945 is a very logical thing. It is something that was rather brutally drummed into generations of Germans (and Japanese too).
    You feeling me R ?

  231. Not feeling ashamed to be German simply because of 1933-1945 is a very logical thing.

    Not living in Germany, I can only speak from distant perspective. It seems to me Germany has struck the proper balance of pride in its present and shame of its past. If the South followed this example no one would hear a peep out of me.

    An amateur guess at the difference may be the duration of the crime. 1933 to 1945 is very different from pre-1776 – 1865 with 1865 – 1965 having remnants of disgusting practices. Maybe the South cannot reconcile itself to CENTURIES of crime against humanity vs Germany’s very bad decade.

    I know this is a very simplistic take on it. I do believe a comparison of Germany to the South is a very worthwhile exploration. I’m guessing doctoral theses, if not entire books have taken a stab at it. Probably worth a Google.

  232. UPDATE: According to Haley’s statement she will call the legislature back into session this summer if they don’t do it themselves.

    It pays to see the entire statement. My bad.

  233. Buwawawawahahahahahahaha…

    The more tyranny these race hustlers like ‘R’ attempt, the more it blows up in their faces:

    Until Amazon.com stopped selling them at 2:30 PM Eastern time today, sales of the Confederate battle flag had shot up 4,000% over the previous 24 hours according to this Business Insider story:

    People are snatching up the flags online after several major retailers — including eBay, Wal-Mart, and Sears — pulled them from shelves.

    The retailers banned the flags after last week’s shooting in Charleston, South Carolina, in which a gunman killed nine people in the historic black Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church.

    The man arrested in connection to the shootings, 21-year-old Dylann Roof, reportedly harbored racist sentiments and wanted to incite a “race war.” He appeared to pose with the Confederate battle flag in several photos that were unearthed after the attack.

    Gov. Nikki Haley (R) of South Carolina and a bipartisan group of local elected officials announced Monday that they supported the removal of the Confederate flag from the state capitol grounds.

    The debate has since shifted to other Southern states with Confederate imagery on their banners. Mississippi prominently features the Confederate battle flag in its official state flag, and some top Democrats and Republicans have said they want that changed as well.

    Gov. Phil Bryant (R) of Mississippi, however, pointed to a 2001 referendum on the subject and said he opposed overturning the will of the voters.

    The Stars & Bars will be swinging across the nation now to send a message and flip the bird. 😈

    P.S. – The Leftist Che gear is still available for sale on the shelves, though.

  234. Interesting factoid I learned on a comedy show but then verified on the net to make sure it wasn’t a joke:

    In locations where display of the swastika is illegal, guess what symbol neo-nazis use as a substitute. You guessed it, that great wholesome American cultural image-the confederate battle flag!

    Yeeeee-fuckin’-haaaaaaaa!

  235. America’s contrarian streak. It is what once made the country great. Perhaps this is the day we recapture it and send a message to petty thugs that have run this country for too long.

    I’ve decided that the feckless Progs and weak pols, especially the illiberal white educators and black race pimps, believe their piety is demonstrated by their intensity of the tantrum thrown. Time to put the foot to the metal and mock them.

  236. Wait. Is that true? The Stars and Bars is used by white supremacists? Who knew?

    Thanks for that tip. 🙄

  237. How about them Dukes of Hazard? Since they’re banning the sale of that shit, do the Dukes have to use Swastika?

  238. Rutherford sees the flag sales as the symbol of racism crawling out of the woodwork. I see the sales as a sign that Americans will not allow themselves to be pushed around by a bunch of wannabee, petty tyrants.

    Like I said, Rutherford has no understanding of the human condition. I stand behind that comment 100%.

  239. What about Hindi, Buddhists, Jainists, and Odinists? Can they use Stars and Bars in places where the Swastika is banned?

    More importantly, can they own a Dukes of Hazard lunchbox?

  240. Tex my friend with any luck you’re one of a dying breed.

    When Obama was elected I was so thrilled that my daughter would never find the notion of a black president absurd. For her it’s a big so what.

    Maybe, just maybe, your grandchildren will grow up in a nation no longer nostalgic for the days when a country as vile as pre-Mandela South Africa controlled its Southern half.

    With any luck your grandchildren will live in a country where almost everyone views the Confederacy with the scorn that it deserves.

  241. I see the sales as a sign that Americans will not allow themselves to be pushed around by a bunch of wannabee, petty tyrants.
    Like I said, Rutherford has no understanding of the human condition. I stand behind that comment 100%.

    😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

    LOL Tex is so out of touch with the human condition he doesn’t even see profit motive when it stares him in the face. Hey fool, the fewer stores that sell them, the MORE valuable they become. Most of your “opponents of tyranny” are just trying to take advantage of future scarcity.

  242. With any luck your grandchildren will live in a country where almost everyone views the Confederacy with the scorn that it deserves.

    Your black President’s legacy. How does the Post Racial President look about now? Another Civil War, of which you freeloading imbeciles played the bloc vote. Give yourself a pat on the back for still not being able to control yourselves and be much more than instinct.

    What a sniveling little shit. As a collector’s item. 😈 And you want to accuse me of being out of touch? I can buy a confederate flag at a gas station. For Africa, construction of a cloth flag is quite an achievement. For America, it’s the push of a button.

    You want to talk about denial of history? With any luck, your type won’t have turned the once great CONFEDERATE USA into Rwanda, as is its history. Your history is displacement and settlements, the Congo and malaria when you’re not killing each other. It’s staring you in the face on the continent of Africa.

    Where are black entrepreneurs of this nation?. Where’s the black Facebook? Or black silicon chip? Where’s the black WordPress? Where’s the black industrial revolution? Or black Last Supper?

    Oh, we’re so oppressed. Wahhh Wahhh. Reparations! Reparations! Racism, racism. Black is Beautiful! The white man keep us down. Wahhh Wwwwwaaahhhh.

    I heard some other countless ignorant black man the other night on your pathetic network with its dozens of viewers talking about how black men built this country.

    Mr. Harvard? Pack mules could make a better claim.

    Hope…
    and….
    Change.

    You earned it.

  243. Since Rutherford is on another SQUIRREL ROLL, desperately seeking ways to capitalize on the deaths of nine innocents while trying desperately to hide the massive failures of black America and its President (it’s the only thing that motivates him anymore politically as he experiences what a hoodwinked sad sack he is), I got to thinking about some other things in America that are divisive and need to go. Things that until now have gone unchallenged, but shall remain unchallenged no more. For instance…

    The Black Congressional Congress? Let’s let our loud voices begin the demand to eliminate this in title. It has no place in America’s Congressional Building. These racist symbols must go.

    As Victor Davis Hansen correctly noted, The premise seems to be that African-American House members seek to promote a common “black” agenda that transcends their local, county, or state interests.”

    Can you deny that, Weasel? Will you join with me, Weasel, in the calls for the elimination of the CBC as we expunge the Confederate Flag?

  244. Time to remove Washington and Jefferson from US currency.

    Personally I think the congressional displays of hoodies, “Hands up, Don’t Shoot” and “No Justice, No Peace” need to be formally stricken from the record and condemned.

    Now, the South gave us MLK, Andy Young and the like. Rutherford’s peeps brought us Sharpton, Wright and the Obamas. How about gag orders of some kind? I feel oppressed by their hate speech and the symbolism tied directly to the WH.

    Let’s get something good out of the shooting!

    Yeeehaw!!!

  245. At the next death of a white person at the hands of a black man or woman (that ought to be by the end of the day), THE BLACK CONGRESSIONAL CONGRESS MUST GO!

  246. The Holocaust was genocide fueled by hatred, the intent was to kill. The German people who were not Nazis were indifferent to the genocide. When the genocide was interfered with and beaten down, the Nazi party and their genocide against the Jews and other “lesser” peoples ended.

    Slavery was part of a global commercial system that remained active largely through greed and indifference. Once slavery ended in America in 1865, blacks were no longer to be regarded as “other people.” But for some whites, indifference turned to hatred and for the next hundred years it was mostly acceptable to be racist against blacks, even though fewer and fewer people over time were racist themselves against blacks. Violence against blacks by whites was much more prevalent than the reverse. “Hate speech” against blacks was acceptable discourse.

    For the past 50 years it has been acceptable – even celebrated – to be racist against whites. Violence among blacks is much more prevalent than violence among whites, and many more blacks commit acts of violence against whites than the reverse. “Hate speech” against whites is acceptable discourse. Blacks have lost the moral high ground when it comes to racism, thanks in no small part to the party which has latched onto them. I’m unmoved by the outrage.

    Many blacks and most Democrats would like for Americans to regard other Americans as the “other people” against whom they are pitted. The South is not comparable to Nazi Germany. The South is part of the United States in spirit and the law. The Democratic Party has once again claimed ownership of blacks and exploited them, this time for political gain. But the truth is the party is indifferent to black on black violence and death. The Democratic Party has also introduced a certain brand of dishonesty into the country regarding blacks and that dishonestly has spread to blacks themselves.

    The flag is not the problem and I don’t oppose taking it down from state houses. Unforgiveness is and I do oppose movements to suppress and undermine forgiveness. Uncharitability towards others is the hallmark of a restless man and the rejection that people forgive themselves is nothing short of evil. Look around at the forgiveness in Charleston and at those who are having none of it.

  247. The South is not comparable to Nazi Germany. The South is part of the United States in spirit and the law.

    I agree with much of what Muffy wrote except what I just quoted. The South has taken its sweet time rejoining the United States in both spirit and law. Things are much better now and from what I understand Charleston is an example of progress (even before the nine were killed).

    And yes, I’m sorry to let you in on the fact that Jews do NOT have a monopoly on suffering. Yes, the South is very comparable to Nazi Germany. A group of people were singled out for abuse. The institutional model was work camps, not death camps, but many died anyway. Unlike Jews, who Hitler believed at least human enough to blame for Germany’s troubles, blacks were not even considered full human beings. The insult and indignity are profound.

    And now we question whether we should “honor” slave holder Thomas Jefferson. Well, that reconsideration, no matter how absurd it might seem at first blush, is the consequence of a deeply flawed nation with racism so deep at its core that to clean it up, you have to consider going to absurd extremes. Our country was not founded by naive innocents who simply followed the methods of the day (which included slavery). Our founders actually considered killing the evil practice at the beginning. They chose not to. They committed the original sin that has haunted us ever since.

    Let me tell you how I rationalize giving Tom Jefferson a pass. I believe if Jefferson were faced with the choice “keep your slaves and secede from the Union or free them and preserve the union” he would have chosen the latter.

    What is odious about Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee and the rest is their dogged pursuit to preserve a system founded on the innate inferiority of the black man. History should forgive none of them, much less honor them with statues.

    Someone on the teeeeeeeveeeee said the other day that what we need is NOT more discussion about race between whites and blacks. We need more discussion of race among WHITES. When streets are named after racists and statues are displayed to honor them, and flags are conspicuously flown to reminisce about them then it is clear that white folks need to have a chat among themselves to figure out how they are going to clean up their act.

  248. Those people who witnessed the explosive hippo butt are lucky. How many times do you see something crazy funny like that?

  249. Yes, it was Tigre. But as I have said often here, Rutherford and his breed have become what they claim to detest. If they were so empowered, I am totally convinced Rutherford and his Klan would gladly take a shot at cracking the whip. They make veiled threats to do so now.

    It’s their own sordid history of which unlike America, they have never overcome because they are weak and ineffectual. Incapable, ungrateful vultures feeding off carcasses and nothing more.

  250. white folks need to have a chat among themselves to figure out how they are going to clean up their act.

    How deluded does a man have to be to turn a blind eye to his own weaknesses and that of his failed culture and President, always failed world culture of which there is no historical precedence of anything but misery and death, and make such demands; when the only thing keeping him afloat is the country he was lucky enough to be born into, founded and made by the very people he demonizes – that which has provided him with creature comforts his ancestors only dreamed?

    Rutherford, the only thing that would complete you further is a taqiyah and prayer rug. Angela Davis doesn’t do justice. Little Louie.

    Look at what has become of Baltimore, Detroit, Atlanta, Flint, Cleveland, Milwaukee, New Orleans, Bronx, Brooklyn, St. Louis, Oakland, LA, Gary, Chicago, E. Houston, Queens, Little Rock, Memphis…

    What do all of these honey pots have in common? Anybody want to take a stab with three guesses?

  251. When streets are unsafe and money, sex, and drugs are valued more than children, and hip hop moguls are glorified, and violence and looting is acceptable expression and somehow representative of justice and peace, then it is just as clear that black folks need to have a chat among themselves to figure out how they are going to clean up their act.

  252. “And now we question whether we should “honor” slave holder Thomas Jefferson. Well, that reconsideration, no matter how absurd it might seem at first blush, is the consequence of a deeply flawed nation with racism so deep at its core that to clean it up, you have to consider going to absurd extremes. Our country was not founded by naive innocents who simply followed the methods of the day (which included slavery). Our founders actually considered killing the evil practice at the beginning. They chose not to. They committed the original sin that has haunted us ever since.”

    Well, there goes the Stars and Stripes too. Gone!

    We’re gonna sanitize this place.

    There will be no justice until we do.

    Who’s next?

  253. “What do all of these honey pots have in common? Anybody want to take a stab with three guesses?”

    BBQ?

  254. When streets are unsafe and money, sex, and drugs are valued more than children, and hip hop moguls are glorified, and violence and looting …

    You’re 100% right about that. Folks are tolerating/encouraging foolishness in their own ranks. The cross talk only creates blaming and scapegoating. The time has come for decent blacks to stand up and say enough. Boycott the rap records. Condemn the out of wedlock procreation. Stop using society as an excuse for crime.

    And decent whites need to speak up and clean the polluted air.

  255. “The South has taken its sweet time rejoining the United States in both spirit and law.”

    What does this mean? You’re the dem here. A Southerner would say the North has taken a long time to join the South. Look at the growth and population shifts.

    I got here as fast as I could. Then, according to you, turned into a racist good old boy that proves his street cred here, on your blog, where all the good ‘ol boys hang.

    I honestly don’t think I know anyone with a college education that is as poorly read and lacking in first hand exposure to other US regions than, Rutherford.

  256. “The cross talk only creates blaming and scapegoating.”

    That’s all you’re doing. Blaming and scapegoating. It’s the liberal MO. And look at the state of race relations.

  257. Rutherford, I often wonder whether you really think you instill white guilt in people that don’t already have it with all of your silliness. I resent your dumb ass and want to push back until I realize you don’t speak for people who’s opinions I value. Quite the opposite in fact. You speak for those that try to profit from racial conflict/strife and you’ve done a fine job of it.

  258. “For the past 50 years it has been acceptable – even celebrated – to be racist against whites. Violence among blacks is much more prevalent than violence among whites, and many more blacks commit acts of violence against whites than the reverse. “Hate speech” against whites is acceptable discourse. Blacks have lost the moral high ground when it comes to racism, thanks in no small part to the party which has latched onto them. I’m unmoved by the outrage.” – muffy

    Racial bias
    Among the single-bias hate crime incidents in 2012, there were 3,467 victims of racially motivated hate crime.

    66.2 percent were victims of an offender’s anti-black bias.
    22.0 percent were victims of an anti-white bias.
    4.4 percent were victims of a bias against a group of individuals in which more than one race was represented (anti-multiple races, group).
    4.1 percent were victims of an anti-Asian/Pacific Islander bias.
    3.3 percent were victims of an anti-American Indian/Alaskan Native bias. (Based on Table 1.)

    Just sayin…

  259. @Rutherford – paying lip service to paying more lip service will change nothing. Boycotting rap – can you think of something that requires less action than to not purchase something that you don’t purchase? Oh, “condemn” – great idea. That’ll work.

    Change starts at home. With you.

    And if you see that others need help getting their homes in order then you’re going to have to turn off the teevee and go to them and act like you give a shit. That’s all these kids ever get is people that don’t give a shit. Or people who say I love you as they walk out the door, or people who say your life matters but not enough for me to find you and be there or to keep track of you. People who won’t even make eye contact as the kid slips through the cracks.

    What prevents you from doing that? You have no idea what an inspiration you could be. Instead you’re a whiner. Talking about “standing up and saying enough” isn’t quite the same when you’re talking to the teevee or typing on the computer to people who can’t wait to see their kids after work or sleep with the same person night after night.

    It sounds like Governor Haley’s taking care of that flag problem plaguing SC anyway.

  260. Ugh….I can’t take this place any more. I’ll check in a month to see what new thing MSNBC is outraged about.

    Yeah…relics of Southern history….there is where my priorities would be.

    More people killed in Crips vs Blood War in SoCal then the Irish Troubles. Think about that. We are tallking the IRA!

    You could replace every Thomas Jefferson statue with a Friendly Giant one, replace the Bars and Stars with Ghanaian flag and have national dance like a Zulu Warrior day instead of Veteran’s Day and the same amount of black kids would be shot like dumb animals in the street the next day.

    Dumb fucks cry about the wrong shit. So the same shit keeps happening to them. I’m told asking them to bring ID to vote is too tall of an order and the dumies need freebie points to become Firemen. So people like Pfessor celebrate their abortions while Rutherford plays the violin for the poor saps. I’ll take my ball, go home and not give a fuck.

  261. @Lurker – what exactly are you just sayin’…?

    That blacks aren’t more violent than whites?

    That there are more black victims of white violence based on a percentage than white victims of black violence?

    That “hate speech” against whites isn’t acceptable?

    That blacks have lost the moral high ground when it comes to racism?

  262. 2.5 million Polish people, non Jews, were systematically killed in the Holocaust.

    2.5 MILLION. Simply becuase Polish blood was considered vile. My great uncle one of them. That’s not even counting the communist purges. (Which killed another relative).

    And I…..really……don’t…….care.

  263. Racial bias: Among the single-bias hate crime incidents in 2012, there were 3,467 victims of racially motivated hate crime.

    Likely because black on white crime is never reported as a hate crime. Take my home city for example. Four white women killed execution style by two black men. Not a hate crime. Three black adults shot in cold blood by white thugs. Hate crime.

    Blacks are six to eight more likely to commit violent crime than any other demographic, 200 times more likely to assault a white than a white to assault a black. Black cities include Compton, Watts, Flint, Baltimore, and Ferguson – all marked by black rioting, black looting, black crime, black assault.

    Black inner city schools are some of the worst in the world, though more dollars per capita are spent per student than any school in the nation. 40% of black children are functionally illiterate in the eight grade. Black children are 73% like to be born out of wedlock, one in three black men will commit a felony before the age of 34.

    Just saying…

  264. Leftist Bias and Fundamental Duplicity Under the Obama/JAL/Rutherford Regime of Rank Hypocrisy Stench:

    The other flag controversy: US Embassy in London flies the rainbow flag

  265. “Dumb fucks cry about the wrong shit. So the same shit keeps happening to them.”

    The dumb fucks keep getting played by their new slave masters.

    “paying lip service to paying more lip service will change nothing. Boycotting rap – can you think of something that requires less action than to not purchase something that you don’t purchase? Oh, “condemn” – great idea. That’ll work.”

    That’s what Rutherford calls “doing something.” 😆

    Let’s see what more gets “done” after the next massacre.

    Gotta love the Obama “you let me down” speech. There was no “we” in “Yes We Can!” As though the statist dem idiots that want bigger government voted in Obama because they were going to do something. They voted him because they won’t. And he feels let down. 😆 😆

  266. Ahhh yes Ann Coulter who said Nikki doesn’t know American history because “she’s an immigrant”. Chick was born in 1972 in that far away country South Carolina.

    The problem with Ann is for every 2 or 3 good points she makes, she torpedoes them with a whopper designed to offend. Ann is and always will be a “look at me” little girl, even if I do agree with her about Bruce Jenner.

    And for crying out loud would folks like Ann and Tigre and Tex stop pointing out that 19th and early 20th century racists were democrats? It doesn’t score any points. But if they’re gonna keep going there why don’t they act like the REPUBLICANS who freed the slaves in the first place?

  267. The dems have always used blacks for political power. There is no scoring points with you. You’re one of the dems useful idiots.

    Anne Coulter rocks.

    “But if they’re gonna keep going there why don’t they act like the REPUBLICANS who freed the slaves in the first place?”

    How is that?

  268. The ignorance and naivety is prevalent in Rutherford as always. Can’t deny the statistics so attack the author. How typical.

    Tonight, I watched the episode of the OKC beheading by a black racist radicalized under jihad trying to kill white people, speaking of symbolism. Chopped one lady’s head off and injured another before the black coward and thug was brought down – a lesson to all of us, the only mistake is in letting him live. I would have finished him off with a bullet to each eye.

    I suspect Rutherford sympathizes with this demon, sharing the killer’s belief of white privilege and oppression. But I wonder if Rutherford realizes that currently, millions of displaced Africans are fleeing chaos that ensues in Africa, trying desperately to make it to the shores of more white racist nations in Europe on account of theocracy – a chaos that started under the regime of Barack Obama and one Barack good standing member? Remember the man of hope & change, a gutless, spineless narcissist who promised us world peace. Like the economy, the debt, the post racial utopia, that didn’t pan out as planned either.

    A theocracy Rutherford is sympathetic and one that voted for Obama at a clip of 92%. Rutherford votes with the real racists and real killers, but is sure flags are associated with mass murder. 🙄 Squirrel!

    Rutherford is man of conflict and confusion – one that I often pity but still resent for his propaganda.

    P.S. – Chris Hayes was summarily mocked on FOX News tonight for blaming Bill O’Reilly – someone, I am sure you have tried to emulate. And it was glorious, as O’Reilly noted the market place has deemed as biggest failure in cable TV. Like Barack.

  269. What is Coulter lying about in the piece? And what is your precise accusation against her, Tigre, and Tex?

    This just gets weaker and more lame every passing hour.

    Can you refute any of this which follows? If not, then let’s be clear about that, alrighty?

    “The Republican presidential candidate in 1964 also opposed the Civil Rights Act. Barry Goldwater had been an enthusiastic backer of the 1957 and 1960 civil rights acts (both overwhelmingly opposed by Democrats). He was a founding member of the Arizona chapter of the NAACP. He hired many blacks in his family business and pushed to desegregate the Arizona National Guard. He had a good-faith objection to some features of the 1964 act, which he regarded as unconstitutional.

    Goldwater was no racist. The same cannot be said of Fulbright, on whom Bill Clinton bestowed the Medal of Freedom. Fulbright was one of the 19 senators who signed the “Southern manifesto” defending segregation.

    Okay, but didn’t all the old segregationist senators leave the Democratic party and become Republicans after 1964? No, just one did: Strom Thurmond. The rest remained in the Democratic party — including former Klansman Robert Byrd, who became president pro tempore of the Senate.

    Former racists of both parties renounced their old views (as Kevin D. Williamson points out, Lyndon Johnson himself voted against anti-lynching laws and poll-tax repeals), and neither party has a perfect record on racial matters by any stretch. But it is a libel to suggest that the Republican party, the anti-slavery party, the party of Lincoln, and the party that traditionally supported civil rights, anti-lynching laws, and integration, became the racist party after 1964.

    The “solid south” Democratic voting pattern began to break down not in the 1960s in response to civil rights but in the 1950s in response to economic development and the Cold War. (Black voters in the north, who had been reliable Republicans, began to abandon the GOP in response to the New Deal, encouraged by activists like Robert Vann to “turn Lincoln’s picture to the wall. That debt has been paid in full.”) In the 1940s, the GOP garnered only about 25 percent of southern votes. The big break came with Eisenhower’s victories. Significant percentages of white southerners voted for Ike even though the Democratic party remained firmly segregationist and even though Eisenhower backed two civil-rights bills and enforced the Brown decision by federalizing the National Guard. They also began to send GOP representatives to the House.

    These Republican gains came not from the most rural and “deep south” regions, but rather from the newer cities and suburbs. If the new southern Republican voters were white racists, one would have expected Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia to be the first to turn. Instead, as Gerard Alexander notes in “The Myth of the Racist Republicans,” the turn toward the GOP began in Virginia, North Carolina, Texas, Tennessee, and Florida. Eisenhower did best in the peripheral states. Alexander concludes: “The GOP’s southern electorate was not rural, nativist, less educated, afraid of change, or concentrated in the . . . Deep South. It was disproportionately suburban, middle-class, educated, young, non-native southern, and concentrated in the growth points that were the least ‘Southern’ parts of the south.” ”

    http://www.claremont.org/article/the-myth-of-the-racist-republicans/#.VYtk90YvwWs
    http://blackrepublican.blogspot.com/2012/06/republicans-and-democrats-did-not.html

  270. I want to know when blacks are going to apologize for Watts, Compton, Ferguson, and Baltimore? Seems to me Rutherford ought to be anteing up about now for a burned down QT store if he’s such a man of principle.

  271. When is the democratic party going to apologize for its racist past?
    When?

    They did better than apologize. They changed their politics. Action speaks louder than words.

    The South can’t change the past. But they can show they learned something with their present behavior. A good start: stop celebrating the good old days when blacks knew their place.

  272. The only reason they’re not destroying mine is there is going to be a hell of a price to pay for doing so. A sheltered little sniveler like you still hasn’t figured that out, but a banger has. Remember, when you told me I would piss my pants when a gun pointed at me? Wanna bet? Let’s put it to the test…

    By the way, critic. You never did answer the charges of Ann Coulter. You angels say most “hate crimes” are committed toward blacks. Perhaps that “keen” mind of your can explain away these published statistics by the FBI in correlation to the insufferable Lurkers claims of white hatred? Care to take a stab, Louie Jr.?

    Adjusting for population differences, black perps commit crimes on white victims 25X the rate that whites commit on black victims. For aggravated assault in particular the black on white rate is 200X higher than white on black.

    Are these “love crimes” blacks are committing, or just “justified crimes” of retribution for Confederate flags, slavery and such?

  273. Peter Pan, you’re just thicker than a brick. Honestly “dude,” you need to get and travel more. I think your Hawwvard educated warped your sense of worth.

    They did better than apologize. They changed their politics. Action speaks louder than words.

    The politics of poverty, failed education, 73% out of wedlock birth, and predominate minority abortion. But Al $harpton got a gig with MSNBC. Yes We Can!

    The South can’t change the past. But they can show they learned something with their present behavior. A good start: stop celebrating the good old days when blacks knew their place.

    Once again, I throw the inconvenient facts in your oily face as you remain stuck at the Negroes only water fountain: Reads to me like you Yankees need to learn something about good behavior.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/02/02/census-great-migration-reversal/21818127/

  274. Ann Coulter made some valid points but also said stupid shit like racists used to be Democrats and (not in that article) that Nikki Haley is an immigrant.

  275. By the way Fox Business host Kennedy? Please tell me this ain’t the Kennedy from MTV years ago. She’s transitioned from MTV comic veejay to a “business host”. I guess America really is the land of second acts.

  276. “They did better than apologize. They changed their politics. Action speaks louder than words.”

    Hahahahahahahahahaha.

    Indeed they do.

    Indeed they do. . . .

  277. Can’t refute Coulter.

    ““But if they’re gonna keep going there why don’t they act like the REPUBLICANS who freed the slaves in the first place?” -R

    Again, how is that?

  278. It occurs to me that Rutherford doesn’t know this flag bullshit is a political move. Is it possible? The guy just learned about the flag for the first time thinks this is an organic movement?

    Rutherford?

  279. “When is the Democratic party going to apologize for its racist past?” When it apologizes for its racist present.

    You’re welcome Rutherford. We all should have known about Mexican flags in some organizations, but we didn’t because the national press chose not to tell us. They have an agenda.

    We are watching mob behavior as people who accepted Southern symbols for years suddenly want to destroy everything. Their over riding principle is self preservation to be on the right side.

    Wal Mart and Amazon
    don’t care. They do care about customers.

    How can someone say the church survivors were exhibiting fake forgiveness unless one is a mind reader? The Bible tells us to forgive our enemies. They were obeying their scripture. Let God burn them in Hell. It is also a healthy psychological action.

  280. “We are watching mob behavior as people who accepted Southern symbols for years suddenly want to destroy everything. Their over riding principle is self preservation to be on the right side.”

    Incredible how easily they are lead around. Frightening really.

    Gruber’s got ’em pegged with their deeeeeep conclusions. Cows.

  281. “Be glad they are that stupid. You should be thanking them for not destroying yours.”

    You mean yours, dimwit.

  282. Great non-existent video. What was the authentic commentary? I am anxious to see what validation there was for the guy whose only interaction with people from the likes of Charleston was when he stopped to by a Stuckey’s pecan log and fill his gas tank.

  283. Did you pick up on that tacit threat by Little Man Rutherford, Tigre? Rutherford occasionally lets the Elijah Mohammad leak.

    That’s the Black America I know and was exposed to as a kid. Bullying in packs, thieves, and predators, the law of the jungle their rule. Angry and unsupervised, hatin’ and blamin’ cracka from the crib. And this was the 70s. It’s got to be a 100 times worse now.

    The women are sometimes more of a threat than the men because it’s still looked at as boy hitting girl when you have to defend yourself.

    And there ain’t nothing they won’t steal. Like feral dogs, they’re most dangerous in packs.

    .

  284. “Did you pick up on that tacit threat by Little Man Rutherford, Tigre?”

    Yeah. It looks like the poltical race agitators have Lil’ Man all bowed up. We better watch our steps. 😆

    And here I was feeling all rapey today.

  285. “The South can’t change the past. But they can show they learned something with their present behavior. A good start: stop celebrating the good old days when blacks knew their place.”

    Nice try, Rutherford, but you are conflating two separate things: the display of the Confederate Battle Flag, and blacks knowing their place. Unrelated. I hate to suggest such a radical thing, but perhaps you should actually talk to some South Carolinians and ask them what the Battle Flag means to them, instead of doing the straw man thing.

    Having said that, it’s instructive to read about how Robert E. Lee behaved after the War of Yankee Aggression – eschewing all memorabilia and symbols of the former CSA. He understood that the past is gone and that bringing it up again does nothing but open old wounds. For that reason, I’ve changed my mind about So. Carolina’s displaying the Flag on Gov’t property. They should probably take it down – BUT NOT BECAUSE A BUNCH OF SOREHEADS ARE OFFENDED BY IT. Fuck them.

    Thoughts?

  286. And the SCOTUS predictably saved the unconstitutional Obamacare.

    As Scalia said, it should be called SCOTUScare.

    I truly believe we’ve tipped over. The only satisfaction now will be the schadenfreude of Rutherford’s epiphany when the effects of this finally hit and he realizes he’s been Grubered.

    May God have mercy on our [children’s] souls.

  287. “Unrelated. I hate to suggest such a radical thing, but perhaps you should actually talk to some South Carolinians and ask them what the Battle Flag means to them, instead of doing the straw man thing.”

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  288. The guy just learned about the flag for the first time thinks this is an organic movement?

    I’m not sure what you mean by “for the first time”. I’ve known about the flag for years. I didn’t know the specifics of the SC Capitol flag until this brouhaha.

    Until the last week, I always laughed the flag off as just dumb hicks being dumb hicks.

    I don’t think the protest is completely organic. Obviously there’s politics to it.

  289. “Be glad they are that stupid. You should be thanking them for not destroying yours.”
    You mean yours, dimwit.

    Oh I’m very thankful they don’t destroy mine. Believe me.

  290. They should probably take it down – BUT NOT BECAUSE A BUNCH OF SOREHEADS ARE OFFENDED BY IT. Fuck them. Thoughts?

    If people were rational, a discussion could ensue. Personally, I think the flag represents a statement of pride, perhaps a symbol of rebellion against tyrannical overreach, and not much more with little or no relevancy to slavery to most of us – many veteran’s graves are marked with such. I doubt those Veterans thought the flag represented racism but heritage.

    As I mentioned on another blog, your approach has been tried again and again to appease the black racists with their nose rings firmly ensconced in Leftist media hands. And every time the appeasement has been meant with more demands, more clubs, more black racism. These people are not rational – they’re abominations seeking to destroy. Many are just dumb sheep and puppets ferried back and forth like Rutherford to provide chorus. They’re being used.

    But that’s not the purpose of these black agitators and enablers, nor the intent of the media who stirs the pot for political expediency.

    I’ve come to the believe, Parker, enough is enough. Give an inch, these demons demand miles. One day, millions might awake from their slumber and realize these people really do hate America and all it stands for, and to continue to play defense is a losing proposition. They seek to destroy us. Perhaps we should destroy them before they get that chance.

    Therefore, and I mean this in all sincerity: Never, never, never give in to the race pimps and go on the offense at all times.

  291. “You should be thanking them for not destroying yours.”

    They destroyed mine, on two different occasions. The first time I was pretty young and missed the war in 67. The second time I saw it all unfold. That was more of a slow moving train wreck.

    But if that is a threat of mob violence, I have .454 hollow point rounds that I’m now surprisingly accurate with. Vaporize heads. So help me God, if rioters ever attack where I currently live (which I honestly don’t think will ever happen) I will kill 10 men.

  292. I am sure this is getting press elsewhere but I am rolling in the aisles over some news I came across.
    The Left is TRULY disgusting in their HYPOCRISY
    Turns out HL Gates of Harvard better known from the “terrible racist Cambridge Police” kerfuffle that lead to the Obama Beer Summit had zero problem exercising “editorial control” in protecting Ben Afflecks image by omitting Afflecks family history of slave ownership.
    I never ever ever want to hear a liberal,a democrat or anything to the left of me politically ever utter a f@#$ing word about racism and truth and unity.

  293. “Muffy, for the record I said nothing about 1964. The parties “officially” swapped places in 1968.”

    That’s straight up political strategy. If any one profession should be abolished along with a few select government agencies, it would political strategist. Propaganda paper boys.

    Your remark isn’t entirely without basis – which is all it takes to become demo-fact. But you would never come to that conclusion on your own – that the “parties officially switched places in 1968” – if you researched voting patterns and political strategies from an historical perspective and had an open mind. Neither of which you’ll ever do or have, I don’t think.

    That the parties “officially” switch places in 1968 is a big lie rolled up in a larger truth that people have been and continue to be exploited for political gain.

    The Republicans are guilty of exploiting racial polarization and appealing to the worst in people to win elections, and ignoring the black vote in the past.

    The Democrats are guilty of defending slavery, disenfranchising Southern blacks, exploiting racial polarization to win elections, and claiming the black vote through intimidation and appealing to the worst in people.

    Democrats haven’t seen the error of their ways or cleaned up their act. They just covered up their extra-ugly past with a little bit of this and a little bit of that, and are cunning about the way they go about owning you today.

  294. Rutherford, who when the guard is down believes he’s the smartest guy on the blog, forgets a little something about that period – the man who hoodwinked the superior race and still does to this day.

    These Negroes, they’re getting pretty uppity these days, and that’s a problem for us, since they’ve got something now they never had before: the political pull to back up their uppityness. Now we’ve got to do something about this — we’ve got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not enough to make a difference.” ~ Lyndon Baines Johnson

    Hoodwinked and ignorant to say the least. At look at them now…

  295. Thoughts?

    Robert E. Lee, clearly more level headed than you Parker. I may have to take him off my shitlist.

    I heard today that he was asked to lead the UNION army but declined because he could not war against his own state.

    I will say this to those calling me historically ignorant. I am underestimating how little national loyalty there was in 1860 vs state loyalty. Folks now would identify as an American before they would identify as a Virginian, let’s say. Not so in 1860.

  296. Tex two truisms. The battle flag is 1) a symbol of a formerly racist America and 2) a fuck you, meant to offend or at least disturb. Anyone displaying it for other reasons is a dumb hick.

    Second, you are becoming a real asshole on the topic, testing the waters with racist rhetoric for a cheap thrill. It’s coming off childish, quite frankly.

    P.S. I sooooo hope your remaining daughter marries a black man. 😊

  297. SCOTUS ruling was the worst thing that could happen fro Hillary. She now owns that piece of shit and won’t have it rescued by the GOP pussies.

    All. Yours.

  298. Turns out HL Gates of Harvard better known from the “terrible racist Cambridge Police” kerfuffle that lead to the Obama Beer Summit had zero problem exercising “editorial control” in protecting Ben Afflecks image by omitting Afflecks family history of slave ownership.

    Alfie, you’re many weeks behind the curve. It’s old news and everyone involved in the incident, including Affleck has since said the edit was a bad idea.

    Affleck originally requested the edit.

    The liberal media mocked Affleck mercilessly for it and Gates got heat for allowing it.

    I don’t know where you’ve been on this one.

  299. That’s straight up political strategy. If any one profession should be abolished along with a few select government agencies, it would political strategist. …

    Again, Muffy I don’t disagree with you. The change in the Democrat viewpoint may amount to nothing more than picking a new group to pander to.

    Politics is at its core dishonest. But we ARE asked on a regular basis to choose between the parties and all things considered, I’m likely to choose Democrats.

  300. Well Rutherfrod all I can say is that celebrity is not what I deal in and I would have continued to be in the dark of the event had it not been for stumbling across foreign media about it. That said I find you to be as dishonest as the year is long,much like all liberals. I searched for some of that excoriating media and found nothing of any substance. I saw excuses and minor attempts to magnify Afflecks “embarrassment” and a piece at Vanity Fair telling folks to not over blow the matter. Well I’m sorry but really you can’t be that stupid.
    I don’t like coming here and shitting on you so I’ll keep the proverbial pants up and step away.

  301. Alfie, no shit perceived. I’ll see if I can find links to justify my comment but I’m not being dishonest. I did see Affleck mocked for his CYA approach to his biography.

    Might have been Morning Joe or Bill Maher or Larry Wilmore. I do follow entertainment more than you do and it crossed my radar long ago.

    The news about PBS cracking down on it (per your article) was news to me.

  302. Thats a typo on your name btw.

    LOL I’m so used to you being pretty fair that I didn’t even notice the typo.

    Tex would call that Rutherfraud with a Boston accent. 😊

  303. Second, you are becoming a real asshole on the topic, testing the waters with racist rhetoric for a cheap thrill. It’s coming off childish, quite frankly.

    Rutherford. I hope you read this, then read it again. I put some thought into this one and didn’t simply react. Because I am being as truthful as I know how and I want there to be no room for doubt, no misunderstanding.

    Not a day passes that some of those admittedly awful responses are what I hear from too many race hustlers from the Left, white and black. And I have grown to greatly resent it – the unfounded arrogance, all of it. This war of culture and race has been shoved down my throat and I refuse to be intimated into silence or coerced into submission. I am testing nothing. I am giving you a taste of what many whites receive every day from wagging black tongues.

    You asked me earlier why I hadn’t much discussed the mass murder and I will tell you now.

    Because I have become numb to the black hatred in this country, desensitized to their actions, weary of their jamming machinations, both white and black, as if I am too stupid to catch on in their attempt. I find most blacks so baseless in their accusations of racism, I have grown to ignore them or too frequently to mock them. I am of the opinion most blacks anymore are sheep manipulated by their new masters, without foundation and unprincipled, the shift in same sex marriage opinion only the latest in example of how unprincipled and untethered most are. And not to single blacks out as too many white fall into the same trap, emotionally exploited and immature in thought, Right and Left. This immaturity, ignorance and untruthfulness will be the end of our country as we know it.

    I have grown accustomed to being on the receiving end of the hateful attitude in my dealings with most blacks these days and have come to expect it. Too many act like feral animals. The fact this mass murder was in a church meant little to me, the advertising of the location only meant to sensationalize and exploit the horror. Those people murdered have been treated as fodder for more political exploitation and division by the media and still are. Add to the fact, too many black churches like your President’s church of choice have become nothing but dens of thieves and meeting halls of sheer racism and evil, and I am immediately suspect of the members of the church. And demons like Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and your gutter MSNBC cabal using this tragedy sickens me, once again reinforcing how wicked I find all who traffic in this politic, utilizing tragedy to further divide and intending to conquer.

    Blacks are without dispute the most hateful, predatory, racist demographic in America today. Every published statistic says as much and virtually everything I observe only reinforces the statistics. Everything is seen through the prism of race. Everything. This forgiveness offered? I have grown to be suspicious of the words spoken and I no longer remotely trust what is offered.

    If the majority of blacks no longer wish to share a country and hate this country, never offering even grateful behavior when earned and civility in return? I will grant them their wish without reservation, letting them reap what they have sown. Blacks want apartheid? Then so do I. It will make the segregation all the more easy and I need not concern myself any longer with their plight – a plight I have made attempt in the past to rectify with time and money and now truthfully regret doing so. If the Left thinks they are going to bully me into silence or submission with these baseless charges? No.

    That goes for virtually all the Left in this country who I consider my real enemies, black or white doesn’t matter. In fact, I loathe white, Leftist politicians most because they exploit all of us.

    Finally and personally between you and me?

    I question my own judgement in sharing anything of myself with you. I am far too open a book because I seldom feel threatened, refuse to live in fear and paranoia, perhaps foolishly thought there was a degree of mutual trust, and at one time enjoyed the camaraderie and even a degree of kinship.

    I will grant you this. The murders and my reaction in South Carolina have made me question my own humanity. I have grown so cold and so numb to the treatment I have personally received the last two decades, that I am having a difficult time resigning myself to the fact this is not how a Christian should feel, talk and act, and certainly not worthy of how a Christian should think. God, forgive me. I risk becoming as hateful as those I detest and it is my own weakness that I cannot better overcome ignorance and scorn, falling into the trap of joining them.

    Forgiveness is difficult for me. As I have shared in the past, I felt exploited as a child and it’s a reminder of a very sad time, ruining my formative years and lashing out in rebellion – an act that has followed and haunted me all of my adult life, often making me bitter when those feelings of exploitation return.

  304. Rutherford – you know that I am no fan of Tex’s rants, but I think if you are going to maintain credibility, you have to concede some points he has made, the most undisputed of which is American and African black men’s propensity to crime and violence. Stat after stat after stat leads to the same conclusion, and the same old “victim” saw that they are “still suffering the effects of slavery” just makes people roll their eyes. Nobody believes a word of it, and frankly, I don’t think you do, either.

    The most important lesson a young man learns is that someone who wants to move from “boy” to “man” takes personal responsibility and doesn’t blame others for his mistakes. Want to not be a “boy” anymore? Then stop blaming others, take ownership of your deficiencies, and man up.

    Then you can become part of civilized society. Not before.

  305. People who actually live in Charleston paint a very different picture. They are just nauseated by these murders, but what they really resent are the cynical race-hustlers who won’t let these people’s bodies get cold and in the ground before they start in.

    One of my old B-schoolmates is black and lives near Charleston. He told me that he believes this psychotic monster’s greatest sin was that he killed the wrong people.

  306. And the gay marriage case handed down as predicted.

    Roberts dissents?

    Well, at least it’ll be good for lawyers.

  307. How does it help “lawyers?” What does ambulance-chasing have to do with gay marriage, unless some poor medico fails to retrieve a foreign object from some pooftah’s tradesman’s entrance?

  308. Civil disputes, you drunk dumbass. Now we get into a whole new world of custody disputes, divorce, estate planning, entitlements and financial/support obligations, evidentiary privileges, etc., etc., etc.. All from a segment that has a completely undeveloped, non-normative economic and social relationships.

  309. I think if black folks can spend the next fifty years (1) putting their families back together and (2) teaching their kids not to be racist – everything else for the most part will fall into place for them, the trend will reverse and start heading once again toward forming a more perfect union.

    Which means they’ll have to forgive. It doesn’t matter if they want to or not, they’ll have to. They’ll also have to accept that white folks forgive themselves. Otherwise we all go down together. No people can survive this (current state of affairs) for very long.

    If taking down public reminders of a painful past helps that along, then by all means let’s put these relics in a museum. No dishonor intended, nor offense. Where does that end? We’ll have to negotiate that together. Politicians will thwart every effort, so politics and race need to be divorced from one another. No party can be the party of racism any longer.

    AND If whites can restart from 1965 and not be dissuaded from their desire to be one nation, keep their families together, and continue as their parents did (many of them) teaching their children not to be racist, and not be discouraged from granting and accepting forgiveness every time hate rears its ugly head – then maybe weary old Lincoln and brokenhearted old MLK – non-partisan monuments to a non-racist America – can stop rolling over and get some rest.

    Key to this new American Dream is the DE-politization of race. Key,

  310. The priestly robes have spoken. Caesar has once again declared himself god.

    I can speak only for myself though I feel confident there are many who believe as I do. The Supreme Court has forced me into a decision I had hoped I would never have to make.

    What do I do when the laws of this land are in direct confrontation to the basic tenets of my faith? And knowing that I must abide by my faith and my conscience, how do I proceed? None of the alternatives are easy, all of them painful, one must be chosen. It would be a bit easier if I did not have children, including two newly minted physicians who are licensed to practice medicine in the U.S..

    To put it simply, God or country instead of God and country?

    Or, to put it entirely in a secular perspective, fight or flight?

    I’ll give Obama and his millions of lemmings one thing. They have managed beyond my wildest dreams to facilitate radical transformation of this country. I wonder if it ever occurred to them, could they hold it intact as they deem themselves universal arbiter of morality?

    Yesterday, the country was polarized. Today, it is now at a level perhaps not seen in our history.

  311. LOLOLOLOLOL 😂😂😂😂😂😂

    You guys are soooo fucked this week. Obamacare yes, gay marriage yes and Obama sings in a church.

    LOL A fucking conservative nightmare. It’s just too funny.

  312. For someone so dependent on medical care, you might want to hold back you’re gloating. We’re nowhere near as fucked as you are — you just don’t know it yet.

  313. Medical Insurance premiums for this house have gone up 33% in the last year, deductibles doubled, and labs are no longer covered. Labs.

  314. Rutherford has accepted that he’s fucked. He just wants everyone else to be fucked along with him. That’s the whole point.

  315. Today, we are one step closer to finally achieving equality for an tradition that has been globally accepted since ancient times. Polygamy. I’m so excited.

  316. Muffy, I don’t even know what to say to Rutherford anymore. I’m well beyond repulsed, down the road on being concerned or even angry, and resigned to the fact Rutherford will never understand and the yuck yucks are the attempt to mask the emptiness.

    But I do believe you are right that misery loves company.

  317. “The liberal media mocked Affleck mercilessly for it and Gates got heat for allowing it.”

    This isn’t the first time this claim has been made under very similar circumstances or that it turned out to be false.

    Do we need to start fact checking Rutherford?

  318. Constitution is dead. Words mean nothing.

    Roberts is 100% correct.

    While most of these idiots celebrate, they have no idea what could one day be coming our way. Or they don’t care.

    Talk time is over, friends.

    I’m not saying it is war time. But, it’s not talk time either. Can’t have talk time without a Constitution.

    America is dead. Rule of law is dead.

    Legions of minimum wage morons all shoving for hand outs. Debased morality.
    Ignorance. Leftist insanity. Division.
    Sheeeeeeeeit.

    I’m out.

    For thousands of years Dead Rabbits have lived in elaborate fiefdoms, commonwelaths, principalities etc.

    You don’t need nationalism.

    Carve out what is yours in life. You can function without a nation.

    Besides, after this one falls, and it is falling, a new one will rise.

    It’s almost liberating.

  319. There could be one good thing to come out of this as we slouch toward Gomorrah. Just a cursory read of the founding documents demonstrated that the founders abhorred the idea of a centralized controlling government which is the way (speaking of drifting) we have been moving for at least 70 years thanks to entitlements and the Supreme Court. I don’t remember a time in my life that the SCOTUS has been truly Conservative in nature.

    Perhaps enough states finally get a backbone to declare Federalism lives again and begin to give Washington D.C. the bird. I would dearly love to read Rutherford’s reaction as state after state declared their independence from a central authority and Barack Obama, perhaps Hillary Clinton. What a beautiful legacy to history’s worst President to be left with the legacy of the dissolution of America.

    And make no mistake, that is all that drives Rutherford. If Obama suddenly became concerned about federalism, lemmings like Rutherford and Lurker with no understanding other than which team they wish to root for would fall right in line.

    It could happen. This country becomes more polarized everyday, never so much as today, and I can’t help but believe more people are beginning to believe like me that if the federal government won’t comply to a measure of the wishes of the states, the nation should be disbanded. As it is, I don’t find any particular allegiance to Obama or Washington these days – the man carries no respect outside the lines. He can dictate laws from Washington, but when he steps out of his shelter, he is loathed, even hated. Obama is stupid and shallow, charismatic to the low information types.

    It’s only like today, that millions of citizens remember Washington D.C. is our worst enemy.

  320. Rutherford – you know that I am no fan of Tex’s rants, but I think if you are going to maintain credibility, you have to concede some points he has made

    Parker I’ve said many times on this blog that many black communities are dysfunctional. The criminals who have been “handled” by police recently are not overly sympathetic characters.

    But if you think there isn’t still a vein of anti-black racism in this country you’re dreaming. We can’t change hearts by law. But there should be social pressures to bear.

    Blacks should be denouncing the production of bastard children, pants halfway down the ass, and very very poor life choices. And whites need to denounce blanket judgments of blacks, and racism and their own white trash contingent.

    It’s very interesting that you’ve adopted Australia as your online residence- a country known to be pretty damn racist itself.

  321. The confederate flag is lowered, the Rainbow flag is raised. A telling event in our history. As we look back on slavery as an abomination represented by the battle flag, how will we view the SCOTUS decision on gay marriage represented by the Rainbow flag in the future? Can we equate the two as one ponders their relationship with God and Country.

    At one time we had laws that blacks and whites could not marry. I am not sure about the whys and hows that law came about but I have a feeling the basis at that time was comparable to the reason gays could not marry.

    Speaking of flags the following might put a smile on your face.
    “As long as we’re on the subject of flags that should and should not be flown in states, let’s take a moment to talk about state flags.”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2015/06/23/every-state-flag-is-wrong-and-here-is-why/?tid=sm_fb

  322. “Perhaps enough states finally get a backbone to declare Federalism lives again and begin to give Washington D.C. the bird.”

    Federalism just gasped its last breath. That is the sum total of this.

    And the masses generally don’t know or care.

  323. Honestly, for me its not some blah blah about the Rainbow Flag. Replace pole smokers with dope smokers and my reaction would be the same. It’s the bastardization of the Constitution. The Obamacare ruling this week was in the same vein.

    Who do these judges think they are? I can’t vote them out of office after legislation I deem shitty. What other engineering do they deem necessary?

    Yet, they legislate.

    Read the fucking law. Read the Constitution. Apply common sense. End of story, you fucking assholes.

    Gay marriage would have eventually been passed in every state. An amendment itself probably would have eventually been created.

    Side note to rant: GOP only cared about one thing. Getting the trade deals passed and collecting their bribe money. Fuck the GOP.

    Confederate Flag isn’t going anywhere.

    Starting a fight with south was a mistake for you liberals. Your anti south bigotry is constant and everywhere. Always making fun of their accents, their culture. At the same time states rights die you people think its smart to go after the Bars and Stars?

    How about this, if liberal places match the per capita military enlistment of the South, then they take their Flag down. Seems like a fair compromise.

    I feel a bad moon rising.

    Game playing little rats like Rutherford can safely giggle. Dude is destined to be 100% on the teet. He has no skin in the game. Tigre is wrong. He has nothing to fear about health insurance. No skin in the game the day IBM realised he isn’t worth a butt fuck in Egypt.

    I will point out to hundreds every how this Republic is supposed to work and why.

    And prepare my sons for all possibilities.

    My Mom used to be outraged when I said nothing would make me prouder then my boys serving in the military. No more.

    Dead Rabbitstan, motherfuckers! And if that doesn’t work, we’re moving to the Republic of Texas.

  324. “Tigre is wrong.”

    Oh I know that.

    Wait until rationing.

    Wait to see what it does to his daughter.

    That job he wants? Buh-bye.

  325. Fair point. But have you ever entertained the idea he doesn’t give a flying fuck about his daughter’s future? Or about anything real life and tangible?

    Fantasy politics and MSNBC abstractions.

  326. At one time we had laws that blacks and whites could not marry. I am not sure about the whys and hows that law came about but I have a feeling the basis at that time was comparable to the reason gays could not marry.

    The opinion of a reprobate mind and such a red herring, it’s not really worthy of correction as I have done it again and again. I just wanted to mention it as example what an utterly false comparison it is….and to make example this is why America is being flushed.

    When people are not smart enough to differentiate the differences, then there are but two alternatives. Circle the toilet and go with them, or climb out and flush them.

  327. He has nothing to fear about health insurance. No skin in the game the day IBM realised he isn’t worth a butt fuck in Egypt.

    😆 😆 😆 I’ll bet money his days were filled with reverse racism rants and cries of white trash and reparations for slavery in the data processing center. Sheer agony for everyone else. I’ll bet they wanted to push that chair off the top of the roof.

  328. Putting aside my admittedly immature razz, both Tex and Muffy made an effort at thoughtful comments.

    I don’t know Tex well enough to know how he has been personally, not politically, hurt by black people. I’ll take his word for it.

    As for Muffy’s prescription, the balancing act is tricky. Blacks must clean up their act independent of what whites do but that’s a tough call if slights are still perceived — slights up to and including being a child with a toy gun, killed in a violent city.

  329. Blacks should be denouncing the production of bastard children, pants halfway down the ass, and very very poor life choices. And whites need to denounce blanket judgments of blacks, and racism and their own white trash contingent.

    Fair enough. But you still have not addressed the central issues that you continue to ignore.

    When are blacks going to be forced to confront their own racism, their own hatred, their sense of entitlement, and their predatory nature – a statistic born out by violent black crime? When are blacks going to move past race and move to debating merit of something other than skin color? When are blacks going to resign themselves to the fact their worst enemy is themselves? And when are blacks going to demonstrate a degree of gratefulness to a country that for all its historical faults, has provided the one haven that has enriched blacks with comforts moreso than any nation at any time in African history, and dedicated a great deal of blood to their freedom?

  330. For someone so dependent on medical care, you might want to hold back you’re gloating. We’re nowhere near as fucked as you are — you just don’t know it yet.

    Tigre it CAN’T get much worse. Our income is too low to get a federal subsidy. I am too proud to get Medicaid. So we are draining our savings on two things-rent and health insurance.

    But I’ll tell you two things: if Obamacare means that my wife, a cancer survivor, can’t be denied insurance then it’s a good thing. If folks who can’t afford insurance and do get a subsidy that helps them, can now get insurance and not live in fear of the next catastrophic illness, then that’s a good thing.

    It ain’t about me. I’m already royally screwed.

  331. I don’t know Tex well enough to know how he has been personally, not politically, hurt by black people. I’ll take his word for it.

    I said I had been personally hurt by black people? They stole one of my cars once, but in retrospect it was a lemon and they did me a favor. I’ve never been physically hurt by a black person if that was your insinuation.

  332. There are state AGs already saying what amounts to “Anthony Kennedy has made his decision, now let him enforce it.” Should be interesting.

  333. You can function without a nation.

    Until a crisis demands that FEMA bail out your ass. Reminds me of some our biggest anti-Fed states who are also some of the biggest “moochers”.

    You guys need a couple of nights good sleep and you’ll feel better. Bob Dylan told you 50 years ago “the times, they are a changin'”.

  334. Tigre it CAN’T get much worse.

    Yes, it can. You can receive no services, dependent entirely upon the generosity of others. Perhaps more relevant, the quality of care your wife receives should her cancer return likely will be severely compromised with the advent of Obamacare. That’s a given.

    What good is your coverage if (1) You can’t afford the deductible; (2) Medicare and Medicaid are severely restricted and that too is a given; (3) Quality doctors choose not to participate; (4) And the quality of care severely compromised and your serviced by less qualified people?

  335. You guys need a couple of nights good sleep and you’ll feel better. Bob Dylan told you 50 years ago “the times, they are a changin’”.

    You like what you see? I don’t think even you’re that naive and untruthful. Surely, even someone as sheltered as you has to realize we have reached a crossroads and that feeling palpable.

    Your arrogance and patronizing notwithstanding, I will assure you that smirk will be wiped from your face before this is through. In fact I am so confident, I will stake my life on it. I wouldn’t be so proud to be so supremely assured, Baghdad Bob, everything you see and everything you know can’t be taken away from you. And there are things also a blowin’ in the wind that you’re not aware either.

    The times may be a changin. But I wouldn’t bet the rent that your life gets appreciably better from here on out on account of it. In fact, I feel assured it’s going to get a whole lot worse from here on out. If you’re ignorant enough to believe you’re a winner, then my advice to you is to enjoy it while it lasts.

  336. Dude…he doesn’t want a job

    Always the asshole. If I didn’t want one I wouldn’t do one I HATE every goddam day. And unlike you, motherfucker, I don’t get paid summers off, pretending to be Grizzly Adams in my country cabin.

    My biggest sin in running this blog is being an enabler of stupidity. Rabbit has that on full display today.

    I could get nastier, particularly with you Rabbit but this week is admittedly surreal and I understand you think the rug is being pulled out from under you.

  337. dedicated a great deal of blood to their freedom?

    That’s where you got it wrong. WE ALL have dedicated blood to our mutual freedom. Blacks (the decent ones) have been partners in this struggle with whites (the decent ones) for a prosperous nation. The black man owes no more gratitude to the white man than vice versa. We’ve all been in this together but you’d never know that from all the carping back and forth.

  338. “The black man owes no more gratitude to the white man than vice versa.”

    so your white privilege shit has come to an end?

  339. I’ve never been physically hurt by a black person if that was your insinuation.

    I can find the quote, which I may have misread, that suggested blacks have personally reminded you of childhood traumas in the way they have personally treated you.

    Now my guess is that you, like me, have not seen blacks up close and personal at their worst behavior. You’ve known neighborhood blacks (in nice neighborhoods) and corporate blacks. So have I.

    Now Rabbit, I believe he has seen blacks up close at their worst, either in the prison he worked at or some of the shitty neighborhoods he’s lived in.

  340. Tex I too get the sense we have reached a crossroads. We have an unprecedented mixture of political posturing and the awakening of the American conscience.

    It WILL be interesting to see how it unfolds. If things go south (pardon the pun), we will have the haters to blame on both sides.

  341. so your white privilege shit has come to an end?

    I seem to recall only you going on and on about white privilege.

    I’m a firm believer in equal opportunities, not outcomes. But when the boss man blindly favors Johnny’s resume over Jamal (h/t to Obama), we don’t have equal opportunity.

    So yeah, you can check THAT privilege brah.

  342. Rutherford my ire is more aimed at Gates than Affleck. One I know damn well Gates would not have offered his editorial judgement to a GOP’er.
    Celebrity is a non-issue for me but the principles are important. I do like that PBS has chosen to exercise more control over whether they will acquire any more product from Gates & Co.

  343. “I seem to recall only you going on and on about white privilege.”

    You recall wrong.

    When blacks get preferential treatment in jobs and education we don’t have “equal opportunity.” What are you saying?

  344. I listened to NPR and suffered through Mark Shields. He is without a doubt one of the stupidest,out of touch mother@$ers on the planet. He was actually trying to spin how the recent SCOTUS decisions are manna from heaven for the GOP candidates of 2016. Now that the court acted they can be all chill. Ugghhhh

  345. Alfie while I get you on Gates it’s worth noting he asked the producer for guidance and was told give Ben a pass. I’m not suggesting Gates was agin it. But he didn’t make the editorial judgment alone.

    I think what may bother you most is this man is a real teacher, a professor and that SHOULD up the ante on integrity.

  346. When blacks get preferential treatment in jobs and education we don’t have “equal opportunity.” What are you saying?

    That’s true.

    Let’s talk college. I think schools should recruit applicants based on diversity goals but when it comes time to evaluate the applications, that should be color blind.

  347. Alfie I didn’t listen to Shields but I’m assuming he’s saying the SCOTUS decisions (Obamacare and gay marriage) give the GOP a cop out. “It’s the law of the land now. Let’s move onto other topics”.

    Re marriage equality that has pretty much been the reaction of Ben Carson and Jeb.

  348. The really good schools don’t need to “recruit” anyone though. That’s something I think isn’t too far off the mark regards the Asians getting angry at the “ivy’s”. Point by point they deserve to get in but are held down by a discriminatory practice and a program to have goals of less than excellence.

  349. “I think I take issue with how you put it. “Nothing more than…” suggests the construct is insignificant. The caste system construct is far from insignificant. The construct of preferences is an attempt to counter the negative consequences of the construct of race.

    Get rid of the race construct and poof, there goes the preference construct also.

    Rutherford , June 19, 2015 at 3:32 pm”

  350. I blame Congress and the American people,I sincerely do. You know you once said something along the lines of due to politics etc we get the President we deserve. ( I believe this was interwoven with the imperial POTUS/dictator talks)
    Well I think We the People and are do nothing congress critters have assured us of a slightly different truth. Legislative gridlock and stupidity gets you the court you neither want nor deserve.

  351. “I could get nastier”

    You ever fuck with me in a way that negatively effects my family and I’ll make you walk perfectly.

  352. I think I read you wrong, Rutherford. For some reason I took “nastier” as a threat of outing me. Not sure why I initially got that vibe.

  353. The really good schools don’t need to “recruit” anyone though.

    Alfie, I don’t agree. I grew up in an upper middle class neighborhood and attended a good public HS. I NEVER dreamed anyone from Glen Cove could go to an Ivy and when an older friend of mine got into Yale it opened my eyes.

    There are smart inner city youth who think the Ivy’s are outside their grasp. They need recruiting – not preferential admission standards. They just need the exposure.

  354. And I’d counter, Tigre, that the caste system robs the lower caste of OPPORTUNITY. While I don’t like racial preference programs, unlike you, I understand why they exist in the context of a counterweight to the caste system.

  355. You read it wrong because you’re wired up.

    By nastier I simply meant comments below the belt that would be unbecoming of me.

    Chillax. I start outing people and the blog dies instantly (and I rightly get my ass kicked – but you’d have to get behind Muffy first to get a swing at me).

  356. Dead sober. But you might be right about me making a fool of myself. My apologies.

    Caste system my ass. Blacks are losers a becuase their Dads chose to be losers. Or becuase of character flaws/bad luck like the rest of us.

    There is no “system” outside of the progressive one that destroys families.

  357. “By nastier I simply meant comments below the belt that would be unbecoming of me.”

    I’d rather deal with that then fembot giggles.

  358. Rabbits are going where wolves still hunt. UP. Going to spend some time in the old mountains. And even more time on the beach of Lake Superior. That lake throws violent tantrums that could scare the ocean.

    True wild still up there.

    I force the family

  359. “Tigre show me where it changed.”

    To:

    “And I’d counter, Tigre, that the caste system robs the lower caste of OPPORTUNITY. While I don’t like racial preference programs, unlike you, I understand why they exist in the context of a counterweight to the caste system.”

    And I’d counter, Rutherford, you forgot because you’re not being intellectually honest. It’s ALL about special treatment, freebies and paybacks. There’ll always be a rationale.

    Fuck.

  360. I can find the quote, which I may have misread, that suggested blacks have personally reminded you of childhood traumas in the way they have personally treated you.

    Now my guess is that you, like me, have not seen blacks up close and personal at their worst behavior. You’ve known neighborhood blacks (in nice neighborhoods) and corporate blacks. So have I.

    I knew you wouldn’t read it closely to get anything out of it. And you don’t get anything right. The childhood exploitation is in reference to a father living vociferously through my athletic achievements and taking the joy out of it with his antics, exploiting his own child to build his own ego. Exploitation of any type disgusts me.

    As to not knowing the brothas? I played sports with them my whole childhood and formative life. Even then, it was evident their mommas didn’t like whitey and that was 45 years ago. That’s how I picture Angela Lawson. 😐

    I’m going to tell you something, Rutherford. And I am serious about this too. Your mind is slipping and it is evident in my dialogue with you anymore. While your main postings haven’t changed much, but your memory in the every day conversation isn’t worth a damn anymore. You need to see a neurologist about early onset, old friend.

  361. We have returned from an historical preservation conference. The key note speaker is from the East Coast, and he said Winterset, the birth place of John Wayne has preserved its architectural heritage and combined preservation with economic development better than cities ten times its size.

    He said the process begins with a small project and expands. The necessary ingredient is knowledge and pride of one’s past, present and surroundings, including neighborhoods and homes.

    I asked if he thought the attitude change could apply to sick communities as many black sections are, and he said it would work there too. All it takes is more pride and less victimization, in my opinion.

    Yes, it is hard for many black children to aspire to schools like Harvard or Yale, but it is also hard for white children from rural back waters to achieve the same dreams.

  362. Winterset is in Madison County. They are already getting international attention as the twentieth anniversary of “The Bridges of Madison County” approaches.

    Gates tarnished the product when he gave Aflec a pass. The world largely runs on trust. After learning that the show withheld information because Aflec thought it made him look bad, the audience must wonder if this was the first time.

    I like the song.

  363. Hubris is sometimes defined as o’erweening pride; and pride, we know, goeth before the fall. . . . With each decision of ours that takes from the People a question properly left to them—with each decision that is unabashedly based not on law, but on the “reasoned judgment” of a bare majority of this Court—we move one step closer to being reminded of our impotence. ~ Antonin Scalia, SCOTUS

  364. I don’t know if Rutherford is one of those that feel a sense of renewal regards Obama’s accomplishments. I know I have had my full in the past few days of folks applauding the O’s accomplishments when reporting on the SCOTUS decisions.
    I found King/Burwell (ACA) overly Hail Mary in nature but the decision is still hard to take. Ultimately the further bastardization of the Court is a negative for America.
    Oberfell (gay marriage) is a disappointment because it is pure judicial activism that negates established states rights that dovetails with the Texas v ICP decision which cemented the reality that no matter the size of the scrap the feds give you they OWN YOU! People should be very concerned about this.

  365. I am. Its why I own guns and live away from most people where most of these decisions and the deterioration in some cities doesn’t directly affect me. I will die before anyone owns me. And I’m not the only one.

  366. Yesterday, it was reported ISIS threw four homosexuals off the top a roof.

    Not only do I find the minds of American homosexual activists twisted and perverse, but their hatred and activism bewilderingly misplaced.

    I can only conclude their delusion is so beyond reason, there is no hope of debating with them to how irrational their reprobate minds have become, and their cowardice so profound, it’s easier to bully and destroy the Christian bakers and florists, those the activists have deemed peaceful and no threat.

  367. When ISIL kills gays,gays and liberals don’t see dead gays,they see a violent theocracy. They apply the same logic to places like Iran. The irony is when you push them on the religion attached to said violent theocracy their p.c. DNA prevents them from being intellectually honest. Sadly that same DNA has no real qualms attacking the other Abrahammics.

  368. There nothing more fraudulent then a liberal. True scum.

    7 shot in Detroit last night. Ten last weekend. We’re talking mass shootings the last two weekends. As in a man shows up and starts shooting people. Cowards can’t even talk about it if it doesn’t get them some Rutherford Giggle Points.

    Meanwhile, like Tex says, the baker is told to shut the fuck up.

    They are dishonest serpents, many of them full of simple hate masked by feel good cartoon morality.

  369. “Empire State Rebellion: New Yorkers Refused to Register more than 95% of “Assault Weapons.” Bearing Arms June 23.

    Civil disobedience is in our genes. We have already seen the support millions have given to businesses who have been persecuted because they’ve disagreed with government and part of society’s dictates. The last two elections have also shown millions of people are becoming fed up. We are also watching the tide turn against abortion on demand.

    Talk is cheap. We need more such action.

  370. “Legal Insurrection” Scot Walker signed into law a bill which loosens waiting periods for gun purchases.

    “Scot Walker for all of his flaws knows how to extend a giant middle finger to the anti-American left and he isn’t the slightest bit shy about doing it.

    Daily Caller says the State Department released a report describing Iranian forced sex change surgery to correct the homosexual problem to be “gender confirmation surgery.” John Kerry said in effect we shouldn’t judge because we also have a bad record.

    ISIS soldiers tossed four gay man off a roof. A death confirmation action.

  371. Whereas past presidential election themes were based on “social issues” I think the 2016 theme song will be based more on the economy. The candidates will align themselves more along the lines of the class system especially the middle class economy.

    Jeb will be seen washing the car on Sunday (after church of course) and Hillary will be seen doing laundry (separating the whites from the coloreds of course) People are more concerned about where they shop, Kohls versus Prada rather than their knowledge of the Middle East.

    I actually heard my rural very conservative neighbor say Donald Trump might be good as he would provide jobs.

    Times are changing for good or for bad depending on your perspective but all people really want is a job and health care.

  372. I think Mitt was mighty focused on economic issues as were most conservatives.

    The left is focused on what they can get and what they can get from those that are focused on what they can get.

  373. all people really want is a job and health care.

    I would say people need a purpose along with their health. ‘Job’ and ‘health care’ have different connotations. We have come a long way since our founders established the Republic. The morphing of our federal government into the corporate beast it is was NEVER the intent of our founders and was the primary thing they warned us about. We were so busy pursuing the dream we didn’t realize they shorted the sheets.

  374. @ Raji I love the unintended freudian slip:

    …and Hillary will be seen doing laundry (separating the whites from the coloreds of course)

    As for the rest of your comment I think it speaks a lot of half truths. Although I find the average American voter abhorrently ignorant I don’t believe they don’t care about the whole bucket of issues. The MSM and to a large degree the candidates presume they can stay away from the issues and the hard work of explaining a position. Sound bites and shiny objects are the rule only because they choose,not because folks fail to demand better.
    Does it matter if the candidate seems human? Yes but folks still need to believe the person can do the hard things.

  375. Aflie, which do you find more disheartening in terms of process (precedent) rather than outcome, the ACA rulings or gay marriage? I’ve them collectively as nails in the coffin and for the life of me cannot see how, actually why, Roberts approached these as he did. I’ve read a few theories of what his ultimate philosophy is but they are all so easily flattened out. Obviously outcome driven. To what end?

  376. Alfie, about half of Americans cannot tell you who the Vice President is if you interview them on the street.

    I am of the opinion at least 80% of American have no clue to what even makes the world tick. They get up, some bathe, most go to work in menial jobs to make ends meet, they put gas in the car, they come home, they eat, they watch reruns of Friends and Seinfeld and Everybody loves Raymond, boys try to score, girls try to look pretty and text each other.

    They wouldn’t have a clue to how gas got to the pump, or water to the shower, or how a house was built, or what it takes to be a doctor or chemical engineer. Politics is hard and it is boring – but watching MTV or Sponge Bob? They know all the characters. They know all the tricks on their iPhone and who was best actress.

    They certainly don’t have the interest or the depth to understand why a nuclear armed Iran threatens them, or the witches brew that is the Fed, or why Barack Obama is not only incompetent but evil. Gay marriage is about rights and its cool. I mean, how can you discriminate about love? Like Obama.

    What they do understand is the price of gas and its affiliation with a good or bad President, and how much their entitlement check goes up in October. If they have a 401k, they’ll keep track of it – and if it goes up, Obama is the man.

  377. @ Tiger… that’s a toughie.
    On one hand I vote ACA. I found the Roberts court out of order when they initially ruled it a tax which was totally against what Congress called it as they reconciled it.Now they rule on a matter and state that the salient point is the intent of what Congress meant when they created it. I find the precedent isolated unto itself (ACA) puzzling.
    On the gay marriage one I find the “for’s” actually frame it pretty well but I think they clearly ruled on a matter not before the court as I feel the states were not discriminating as much as they were regulating a defined concept. This is why twenty years ago I was screaming for folks to support civil unions.This one will skyrocket to #1 if in the future they also 5-4 vote to kick religious freedoms in the crotch.
    Lastly I find they have bolstered a flawed point in the FHA law that puts humans and taxpayers at a forever disadvantage and ignorantly abuse state and local governance. In some ways this may be the one that bothers me the most with ACA #2 and gays tied and waiting for what’s next.
    I’ll say this though about the marriage thing. In my uneducated skim of the decision I don’t see how the Supremes can’t support polygamy now.
    Where are you on the decisions?

  378. Alfie, I haven’t fully digested them yet. In fact, I haven’t read the most recent gay marriage all the way through. I did read the transcripts of the oral arguments all the way through. They were weak on both sides. I don’t think Verilli is that good.

    ACA #1 took the wind out of my sails. It so completely redefined the role of government and was just an an abomination of logic that I don’t think I fully recovered from the wrongheadedness of it.

    ACA #2 came out as predicted. Anyone familiar with statutory construction cases knows their are rule (in this case the absurdity doctrine) to support any outcome. Scalia’s snarky dissent was right though.

    Gay marriage was just wrong in denying the debate that needed to occur. We all know gay marriage in all 50 was an inevitability. And I agree, civil union should’ve been pushed and wasn’t. That aside, the SCOTUS creating constitutional “rights” that just don’t exist to divest states and constituencies of the most fundamental actual rights in their governance is such a dangerous precedent, I can’t say it is not the worst of it.

    I don’t see how collectively any clear-thinking person cannot view the SCOTUS as legislating from the bench, regardless of its probably ironic motives.

    I just haven’t got my head all the way around it yet. However, I do agree with your broad observations. I am very troubled by the direction of these rulings.

    More to come for anyone willing to discuss.

  379. BTW, it is the long run trajectory of these things that’s the problem. So any “chicken little” retort from the shallow cheerleaders will fall on deaf ears.

  380. I also know of no application of the majority opinions that don’t would prevent a federal constitutional right to polygamous marriage.

  381. but it is also hard for white children from rural back waters to achieve the same dreams.

    And that’s why Harvard actively recruits there. My freshman roommate was a “farm boy”.

  382. For the record, Antonin Scalia is an ass who uses language in his opinions beneath the dignity of a SCOTUS judge. Please note Scalia signed Roberts opinion. Roberts did not sign Scalia’s.

  383. So here’s logic that I don’t get.

    On MSNBC this morning someone made the comment about opponents to gay marriage “they’re not bigots, they’re just following their faith”.

    To me that is akin to saying “ISIL are not homicidal maniacs, they’re just following their faith.”

    If your faith leads you to be a homicidal maniac, you are a homicidal maniac. If your faith leads you to be a bigot, then you’re a bigot.

  384. Rutherford you offer proof that everything is a matter of perspective. Basically Scalia was a gentleman and Roberts coy and pinky. Ironic I literally just finished an article at New Republic that didn’t applaud Antonins politics did praise his writing style and depth. I find that kind of special. 😀

  385. I found King/Burwell (ACA) overly Hail Mary in nature but the decision is still hard to take.

    Why is it hard to take? The notion that you sue over a poorly phrased sentence is absurd. You have called it a Hail Mary and you’re right. You should be happy that the court did not support this foolishness. It should also warm your heart that it was 6-3. Not a partisan opinion.

  386. @ ET we’ve had our back and forths so I welcome the chance to say I liked your last few comments and agree that the longer term is key and chicken little s need to stay mute.

  387. So does deeming adultry wrong and the people who do it sinners make me a bigot too? If not, why not.

  388. Rutherford, this should go without saying but since it isn’t, the issue what the government imposes on the individual not what the individual imposes on the government (or other people for that matter).

    You can take it from there.

  389. 7 shot in Detroit last night. Ten last weekend. We’re talking mass shootings the last two weekends. As in a man shows up and starts shooting people. Cowards can’t even talk about it if it doesn’t get them some Rutherford Giggle Points.

    You know Rabbit, usually I’m impressed by this argument. But it’s wearing thin. Know why? Because conservatives don’t give a fuck about it either. The only thing you’ve got in your favor is conservatives are not hypocrites. They don’t care and they don’t claim to.

    Liberals: “We care about black people, well, not really.”

    Conservatives: “We don’t care about black people.”

    Yup BIG difference. Liberals are such scum.

  390. Talk is cheap. We need more such action.

    I agree. That’s why I applaud the woman who scaled the Columbia, SC flagpole and took down the confederate flag. She was arrested. Flag went back up. I’m rooting for the next one. Her only mistake was not having a cigarette lighter with her. 😈

  391. “The notion that you sue over a poorly phrased sentence is absurd.”

    Rutherford, for the Love of God! It was not a poorly phrased sentence. IT WAS DELIBERATE! It was specifically phrased that was about 12 times in the same provisions to coerce states into the exchanges. While the problem was that many didn’t, the said what it meant and meant what it said. Time after time after time.

    Fixing the statute is for the legislature, not the court. Now if you want to argue that, go for it. But don’t say it was an error when it absolutely was not an error at the time it was drafted. It was error in retrospect.

  392. “Legal Insurrection” Scot Walker signed into law a bill which loosens waiting periods for gun purchases.

    Yeah that’s the ticket. Let’s hope Scott doesn’t get shot by one of his constituent freedom lovers. Gabby Giffords was pro gun too before she neatly got her head blown off.

  393. The left is focused on what they can get and what they can get from those that are focused on what they can get.

    DAMN! I’ve read too much El Tigre over the years. I actually understood that sentence.

  394. The best proof of why the statute reads the way it reads is dug up from your better, Jon Gruber.

    Q: “It’s my understanding that if states don’t provide [exchanges], then the federal government will provide them for the states.”

    A from Gruber: “What’s important to remember politically about [Obamacare] is if you’re a state and you don’t set up an exchange, that means your citizens don’t get their tax credits—but your citizens still pay the taxes that support this bill. So you’re essentially saying [to] your citizens you’re going to pay all the taxes to help all the other states in the country. I hope that that’s a blatant enough political reality that states will get their act together and realize there are billions of dollars at stake here in setting up these exchanges. But, you know, once again the politics can get ugly around this.”

  395. Alfie, about half of Americans cannot tell you who the Vice President is if you interview them on the street.

    This is 100% right as is 90% of the remainder of Tex’s comment.

    But it flies in the face of Tex’s assertion that hoarding the confederate flag was some protest by the silent majority.

    Deep in his heart he knows it was just supply-demand driven economics.

    Americans are profoundly dumb. But to their credit, life is VERY complicated and the best most of us can do is bathe (occasionally), go to a job we dislike and watch MSNBC every night.

    Wups, did I just say too much? 😀

  396. “Yup BIG difference. Liberals are such scum.”

    I agree. Ferguson and Baltimore is hypocrisy on display.

    Conservatives care as much about blacks getting murdered as they do whites – no distinction. Liberals care more about blacks being killed by whites or cops than blacks being killed by blacks. Liberals care about blacks being killed by confederate flag toting zombies but Dr. Gosnell was quietly swept under the rug.

  397. Robert’s rational is inconsistent.

    I agree with his dissent in the gay marriage case. I am against the application of his “philosophy” of the court evidenced in the other decisions.

    It’s why I referred to process rather than outcome. It’s why I will not pay attention to chicken little retorts.

    These decisions are far more expansive than you seem to recognize. There’s no point in debating them if you don’t understand the basis for the rulings nor will I engage in them again. The discussions of United and ACA #1 with your were head pounding enough for a life time. You just won’t dig down and try to understand what the opinions are saying. Hell, you won;t even read the opinions let alone the synopsis.

    BTW, your comment about the Scalia dissent is bullshit. I am confident you didn’t read that one either.

  398. King/Burwell is a continuation of judicial activism. As I stated to ET regards precedent I disagree with how the Roberts court grounded the entire ACA matter. King could’ve been freaking 9-0 and I’m still having a hard time accepting anti-Constitutional dickering.

  399. “That’s why I applaud the woman who scaled the Columbia, SC flagpole and took down the confederate flag. She was arrested. Flag went back up. I’m rooting for the next one. Her only mistake was not having a cigarette lighter with her.”

    I applaud Corey Brooks for starting Project Hood.

    I don’t understand how blacks are not majorly down on the liberal media for the edit they get.

  400. Regards faith. If you’re a homicidal maniac you’re a homicidal maniac and it doesn’t matter whether you bow to Jesus,Mohammed,Buddha or Homer Simpson you’re just a maniac. The faith isn’t causative,it is almost always an excuse thing.
    Even with Islam and the infamous “sword verse” etc. the actual religion requires and encourages a pursuit of the five pillars for ones life and repeatedly refrains from condoning beheading everyone in the neighborhood. Don’t take shoddy shortcuts R.

  401. This is not a rhetorical question, but a genuine one that I ask so that I can have a clearer understanding of things.

    Did the SCOTUS rule gays have the “right” to marry based on the idea that states do not have the “right” to deny them marriage? Sort of like a right by omission?

    And if that is a “yes” that might be followed up with a “so what?” answer, can the answer to the “so what?” be explained?

    Thank you for anyone who takes the time to answer and educate.

  402. I believe I’ve said this before but I’ll say it again. Civil unions should be the secular norm for ALL couples, gay or straight. “Traditional marriage” should be the sole venue of religion. Religions that tolerate gay marriage may do so, those that don’t don’t and the government keeps their nose out of it.

  403. BTW, it is the long run trajectory of these things that’s the problem.

    I can see polygamy being in that trajectory. ET, you thinking beyond that? Marriage with minors? Marriage with your doggie? Serious question. What do you honestly think lies down the slippery slope?

  404. Since your college room mate was a farm boy who may have been a partly affirmative action product, we have something else in common. We are both members of oppressed minorities.

    I don’t see anything wrong with the woman who climbed up the pole as long as she accepts her punishment. It is what Martin Luther King preached. Setting off a fire bomb in a driveway was a similar statement and we also should have been punished had authorities learned our identities.

    “Robert’s rational was inconsistent.” I don’t plan to waste much time on the case because it is over. However, El Tigre wrote what I intuitively feel.

    I support gay marriage, but I don’t think this court case was the way to go. I think it may have far reaching eventual effects including campaigns for polygamy. Not just extreme Mormons but larger numbers of Muslims will make it an issue. I also think that eventually, anti-gay marriage comments will be relegated to hushed voices and whispers.

    I’d also like to read some answers to Huck’s question.

  405. Muffy if ANYONE really CARED about Detroit and Chicago we’d see change. Rabbits charges of indifference apply to both parties. I agree that his charge of hypocrisy is, for now, uniquely liberal.

  406. @ Huck for what it is worth since I am no Esq. the decision can’t be taken in an isolated manner.
    The Court for years now has played a game in which they balanced public opinion,politics,idealism and everything else other than the Constitution to get to the end. Basically the liberal jurists have confessed to intentional activism and that activism is the clear purview of the Court.
    It is why Roberts dissent is actually so clear and true.
    Not to get too deep but what has occurred imo is a false application of the 14th,which is the liberals heaviest hammer in the toolbox for destroying America btw.
    Not unlike the earlier miscegenation laws that were in fact once properly supported by the 14th and then overturned by the 14th by the SCOTUS what you have is swirling interpretations and feelings.
    For example Pace passed muster because both races were treated equally. If you thought the spirit of the laws were wrong or distasteful was not for Constitutional debate. Loving is the same thing. Both parties were being held to the standard of the law but now we felt icky about telling people who they could love and trumped up stuff to overturn Pace somehow stretching equality.
    Loving is the fuel in the furnace for the liberals on gay marriage with the 14th declaring a gay couple is equal to a straight couple.

  407. “What do you honestly think lies down the slippery slope?”

    The a slippery slope will have to do with the misapplication of the ruling in all manner of cases.

    In the domestic relations context, I a not concerned with the “consent” limitations of bestiality and minors. I could see coercion (financial through tax exemptions if not outright) of churches to require they perform gay ceremonies.

    But I digress. You’d have to use your imagination. At this point, again, it’s process not the outcome. The ACA cases too. Someday it will be something you don’t like and wonder “how did we get here.”

    Let me know when you’ve read the dissent. I don’t have the energy to restate it since I agree with it.

  408. It occurred to me that Southern Democrats who fought in the civil war probably had the same views on slavery as liberals like Biden and Rutherford have on abortion.

  409. It’s the new word salad approach.

    Abortion “is the wrong choice to make” is how you put it most recently as I recall.

    You used to think men had no right to tell women what to do with their bodies, but now you wonder why you can’t tell them they can’t terminate a pregnancy if you can tell them they can’t pick up a gun and shoot someone, or something like that.

    So where are you now – can you “tell them they can’t terminate a pregnancy?”

    Joe Biden says no.

  410. “Muffy if ANYONE really CARED about Detroit and Chicago we’d see change. Rabbits charges of indifference apply to both parties.”

    I don’t think so. You said we didn’t care about the Newton schoolchildren too, and I know for a fact that’s a lie.

    There are tangibles that demonstrate that liberals care about blacks getting killed by whites or cops. Tangibles that are conspicuously absent when the killing is done by blacks to other blacks or to whites. Or black babies killed by evil doctors.

    Where are the tangibles illustrating how conservatives behave differently depending on the race of the victim of violence.

    You just proclaiming that conservatives don’t care because, well, they just don’t?

    (PS…I hope you don’t mind the cross talk too much, Alfie and Tigre.)

  411. Where are the tangibles illustrating how conservatives behave differently depending on the race of the victim of violence.
    You just proclaiming that conservatives don’t care because, well, they just don’t?

    I never said conservatives differentiate between different racial mixes in violence. On the contrary, I agreed that liberals crying foul only when a black death has a civil rights tinge to it IS hypocrisy.

    But I’m talking about results and based on results no one is effectively handling the cause of black lives matter.

    (PS…I hope you don’t mind the cross talk too much, Alfie and Tigre.)

    Huh? Since when do Alfie and Tigre dictate who gets to talk to whom on my blog? They’re welcome to toss in their two cents in defense of me, or more likely, you.

  412. You said we didn’t care about the Newton schoolchildren too, and I know for a fact that’s a lie.

    How did this care manifest itself? We know you didn’t touch gun laws because Lanza got his gun legally – so nothing to do there. Where were the conservative movements to destigmatize mental illness and help more people get treatment? Frankly I don’t recall conservatives doing a goddam thing after Newtown except beat the 2nd Amendment drum — again.

    You aware that some of your political brethren said folks would be alive today if the AME church had not been a gun free zone?

  413. So where are you now – can you “tell them they can’t terminate a pregnancy?”

    Muffy I think abortions should be performed for medical reasons only. Period. I don’t think either of us has articulated what to DO about it.

    I fear women dying in back alley abortions. You say that is a silly objection.

  414. Figures Rutherford would think Scalia an ass, but some silverback, unqualified hackflack like Kagan and still looking for somebody to shave her back, just grand.

    I’ve never read a person that had poorer taste in character than Rutherford – a complete reprobate and Obama cocksucker. That tells you all you need to know about the man’s taste – like the top of his stove.

    Did you get my message you need to see a neurologist, flack? I was serious.

  415. I wonder if all but a few here recognize what has transpired the last few years, is exactly what brought America’s founders to rebel and start their own country?

    There’s no doubt in my mind that no only is Obama an inbred, incompetent asshole, but he’s a fascist too. I wouldn’t mind that mulatto scumbag going down in history in the same breath as King George III.

  416. So does deeming adultry wrong and the people who do it sinners make me a bigot too? If not, why not.

    By adultery, do you mean sex outside the marriage without your wife’s consent?

    By that definition, current popular opinion is that it is a scumbag thing to do. That popular opinion is unlikely to change in that it speaks to underlying issues of honesty and betrayal. Those issues are fundamental to human existence and not tied to any particular religion or era.

    The popularity of your having anal intercourse with another man has varied over the centuries and is not in my opinion subject to the moral absolutes that adultery is.

    Sitting in judgment on behavior that does not hurt anyone makes the judgment rather arbitrary and does indeed make you a bigot, even if a holy book says its ok.

  417. Did you get my message you need to see a neurologist, flack? I was serious.

    I don’t remember you saying that.

    😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

  418. Hey Tex ever notice how no one ever quotes your hero Clarence Thomas, when these opinions come out?

    Probably an affirmative action dumbass. He did replace Thurgood so we know the primary motive was to fill a “black hole” on the Supreme Court. 😄

  419. “Muffy I think abortions should be performed for medical reasons only. Period. I don’t think either of us has articulated what to DO about it.”

    The question is – can you “tell them they can’t terminate a pregnancy?”

    I’ve articulated what to DO about it every time you’ve falsely charged that I’ve never articulated it.

    “I fear women dying in back alley abortions. You say that is a silly objection.”

    I don’t say it’s a silly objection. I say it’s her choice.

  420. Re ISIL killing gays, what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

    Gays should be “grateful” they are not summarily killed here?

    I’m always amazed by this notion of American nobility:

    Come to America! We won’t treat you as shitty as other countries do!

  421. The question is – can you “tell them they can’t terminate a pregnancy?”

    The answer, for non-medical abortions, is yes. You can tell her. Now what?

    1) Put the abortion docs in jail.
    2) Leave the women to their own devices regardless of risk.

    Do I understand that to be your solution?

  422. You realize that “telling her” means enacting law to see that she doesn’t, don’t you?

    A woman does not have the right to terminate a pregnancy. Is that your position now?

    “Do I understand that to be your solution?”

    See I knew you remembered. Not quite. Tell you what, if you’re still interested after you get off the hot seat we can talk about my position, k?

  423. But I’m talking about results and based on results no one is effectively handling the cause of black lives matter.
    With all due respect I think the policing concept of “Broken Windows” is testimony to the fact that conservatives are willing to put forth an effort to help black lives matter.

  424. As sickening and tragic as Newtown was I would put forth that the difference between conservatives and liberals is such that the “need” to do something especially for the sake of doing something is not really needed.
    There are literally a cornucopia of laws that could’ve should’ve done something about Lanza and the Colorado theater dude,not to mention Columbine,VT and a bevy of other “mass shooting” incidents.

  425. Hey Tex ever notice how no one ever quotes your hero Clarence Thomas, when these opinions come out? Probably an affirmative action dumbass.

    Well, in the worst case scenario, he’s you. Why wouldn’t he be a dumb ass? But he’s my dumb ass. 😈

  426. So moral code is merely tied to popular consensus?

    Well finally, Rutherford says something we can all agree with. Somebody dig up that Dred Scott decision and we can get back to basics. That was damn popular.

    You know like best about you, Rutherford? There’s not much, but the one part I really do admire is I hang around here long enough, you’re ignorant enough that not only do you incriminate yourself and negate yourself, but can come full circle in one thread. 😆

  427. Rutherford, is polgamy not a conditional right?

    Oh, I forgot, if it becomes in style it is. Let the people decide, like with gay marriage. Wait a minute…..the people didn’t decide gay marriage.

    You might have dementia.

    Walk around in circles all day.

  428. Tex, if I found out Rutherford started this blog as a semi talented and gifted 9th grader and the joke is on us, I wouldn’t be totally shocked.

    He is a complete mess.

    Lapses in logic like this only happen when your thinking is on auto pilot 24 7.

  429. “What’s on your mind?”

    I just fell about eight feet from a cherry tree. My head hit the ground so hard I saw stars and blackness the three times it bounced.

    My shoulder and neck are sore, and my wrists are bleeding. I missed the concrete floor of the patio by a foot or two. My wife is looking for the pan of cherries and those which spilled.

    I think I was being over cautious to rest. I think I can do it again. That may be a “lapse in logic.” I feel all right after a short rest.

    If homosexual marriage is morally right and legal, so are polygamy and polyandry. There is no real argument against it as long as the partners are adults and treat each other with respect

    Moral code is determined in part by popular consensus. For example, we are taught not to kill, but in some circumstances, murder is acceptable and even commendable. So is canabilism.

  430. Damn, James – hope you are OK.

    It would seem to me that gay marriage, polyandry, polygamy are not equivalent. Since there are approximately the same number of marriageable men and women, if a given man takes, say, six wives, then there are five guys without any prospects. Multiply that by dozens of polygamists and you have a problem; that is probably why it has been universally outlawed.

    OTOH, if a couple of queers marry, what’s the loss? What, exactly, is your objection? They weren’t going to marry women and have babies, anyway. I wouldn’t think the solons would make laws forcing clergy to marry people they consider immoral, so I don’t see the down side; the churches that think it is OK will marry them, those that don’t, wont. Civil authorities will marry the rest.

  431. Rutherford – I feel your pain about autotext and voice-to-text conversions. I nearly texted a portly friend, “Fatso.”

    I was trying to say, “bath soap.”

  432. R – watching (with considerable amusement) your back-and-forth with Clytie Mae about abortion, I am struck with the notion that some of the fetus people are, themselves, the best argument that abortion is a good thing.

  433. Thanks, Parker. I think I’m OK–just a little sore.
    Your reasoning makes sense but we still have polygamy in parts of the world, and it seems to defy the math.

    In theory, Mormons adopted polygamy to protect women who’s husbands had died or were unmarried. That was the theory. If I recall correctly, Mormons officially abandoned polygamy as a condition of entering the US. Many had moral objections, but the practice had persisted.

    As we know, polygamy still continues in isolated rural parts of the West. Our daughter has watched a Mormon reality show which chronicles the lives of a polygamious family and its children. Several polygamists have said gay marriage provides an opening for them.

    Muslims also have a tradition of polygamy. In some places, they want to impose Sharia Law, even here. If enough Muslims move here, I believe they will be arguing for imposition of their cultural values as they already do.

    It seems to be a long jump for polygamy to be here, but ten years ago, gay marriage was pretty far fetched.

  434. What’s the issue with Clarence Thomas? No one quotes him? You’re theory is he’s stupid? Based on what? Show me one single time you’ve quoted any justice in any case.

  435. Gay marriage was about gays being denied the same right that others enjoyed.

    Nobody has the right to polygamy, so that entire argument is a false equivalency.

  436. “Multiply that by dozens of polygamists and you have a problem; that is probably why it has been universally outlawed”.

    Parker, a constitutional right/natural right is exactly that.

    Exchange ” a sausage fest is bad for society” with some “speech and expression” is bad for society..while true…the Constitution is a door mat.

    It’s a valid point that you make about polgamy, and certainly one that would resonate well in front of Congress, but can a Supreme Court think in those terms? If so, your take on the role of the judiciary is worlds apart from mine.

    Your greenlighting social engineering by the wrong bramch of government.

  437. So moral code is merely tied topopular consensus?

    Rabbit perhaps Muffy is right that I lack a core?

    I see few moral absolutes. Most stuff falls in the grey and is governed by the notions of the day.

    Moral absolutes, to my mind involve honesty and injury to others. I think these absolutes are shared by human beings throughout time.

    In fact, if slavery hadn’t been so depraved, I might accept even it as “of its time”. If it were a matter of room and board in lieu of wages, an economic proposition not reliant on the inferiority of the black man, I could more easily reconcile it. Of course this would also have to include an opt-out option for the black man.

    So again I think timeless moral absolutes are few and far between.

  438. “Gay marriage was about gays being denied the same right that others enjoyed”

    A gay man could always take a wife.

    However, you think a gay man has a right take another gay man as a spouse. Fair enough. Not traditional. Cutting edge. But I’m following you.

    Polgamy has a long and established tradition. Who are you to say a man shouldn’t be able to marry two women. He has the backing of Hadith, he’s legitimately in love and the union will improve business ties between his family and another. For him, the expression of love and being a man on front of God is having more then one wife and the patriarch of a great house.

    Following the precedent set forth…its not a false equivalency.

  439. Thou shalt not fuck a man up the ass is not a moral absolute to which I subscribe. I don’t do it because I don’t want to. Not because I’d be a “sinner” if I did.

  440. Alright. In back to back comments, Huck and Rutherford show they didn’t bother with the Roberts dissent.

    Rutherford didn’t even bother with my prior comments.

    WTF?

    Huck, I don’t even get your comment. Nobody had the right to gay marriage because marriage was defined as existing only between a man and a women for. . . ever. If the definition of marriage can change to encompass same sex union, why not polygamy under the court’s ruling? Hell, it even has some historical and religious foundation in other cultures and of course mormonism.

  441. Rutherford, following your own logic, the Supreme Court had no business ruling on this. It should have been left to the people.

  442. “Thou shalt not fuck a man up the ass is not a moral absolute to which I subscribe.”

    Not the point.  

  443. Yet, you applaud the judicial branch?

    Followers of the SCOTUS amuse me. If they like the ruling all is hunky dory. If they don’t it’s judicial activism! 😳

    Seems to me the proceeds of the SCOTUS have been unscientific for some time. They are there to spin the Constitution to support their own beliefs. That’s what they do. It ain’t science. It’s interpretation.

  444. “Following the precedent set forth…its not a false equivalency.”

    Not at all. It was raised at oral arguments and is addressed specifically. So too is the tax exempt status being used as a tool.

  445. Basically, Huck is saying we have no right to define marriage by gender (even though gender is clearly defined and accepted in areas like the draft) but his definition of marriage in terms of participants is in stone becuase… He says so?

  446. Okay. I’m done. I’m not getting sucked into this anymore.

    Rutherford, go read. You’re not saying anything and worst of all, you don’t even know you’re not saying anything. It’s like discussing the bible with you. A book you’ve never picked up bt will develop strong opinions about when the topic arises.

  447. A woman does not have the right to terminate a pregnancy. Is that your position now?

    I’m really not trying to be difficult. You talk about “rights”. Seems to me rights can be in conflict with what is best for society.

    I’m not sure it’s a contradiction to say a woman has the “right” to terminate a pregnancy but as a society we can tell her she can’t exercise that right.

  448. With all due respect I think the policing concept of “Broken Windows” is testimony to the fact that conservatives are willing to put forth an effort to help black lives matter.

    Fair. The policy has flaws but you are right that it is an effort.

  449. Moral code is determined in part by popular consensus. For example, we are taught not to kill, but in some circumstances, murder is acceptable and even commendable. So is canabilism.

    I’ve been called illogical to the point of dementia but James touches on the point that “morality” is full of ambiguity. Moral conflicts have been discussed for centuries with no conclusions. Should a group kill and eat a member to keep the group alive? If so, who dies?

    You guys act like these questions are easy to answer.

  450. I am struck with the notion that some of the fetus people are, themselves, the best argument that abortion is a good thing.

    Parker, as I’ve aged my views have come closer to Muffy’s on this subject.

    You cannot object to euthanasia and capitol punishment, as I do and then ignore the precious nature of a growing being.

    Muffy has decided on a clear path forward and I am still unsteady there.

  451. Show me one single time you’ve quoted any justice in any case.

    LOL as though you would give any credit to my quoting a Justice.

    My point is in casual listening to the coverage, I’ve heard Kennedy, Scalia and Roberts quoted. Not Thomas. In fact whenever I’ve heard SCOTUS cases discussed I almost never hear what Thomas had to say.

    Add to that that the dude NEVER questions the parties presenting their sides and I wonder what’s going on upstairs.

  452. I mentioned Thomas in the ACA #1.

    I really don’t get your point. Sounds like you’re just repeating half of some MSNBC shit you heard.

    So, what SCOTUS opinions have been discussed here other than what we talked about in this very thread?

    Kagan and Sotomayor La Raza’s “Wise Latina?” Got any idea what their questions are like? I do. Mark Twain would’ve advised them to keep their mouths shut.

    Anyway, you were saying Thomas is an Uncle Tom?

  453. “Heaven help me, I took that literally at first and thought WTF?”

    You took that literally? That sausage is bad? From a polock?

  454. Rutherford hates Clarence Thomas for the same reasons he hates Ben Carson and a multitude of other blacks that don’t hold the line. Those men are the greatest threat to his narrative of perpetual victimhood, just as Christianity is a threat Rutherford’s religion of politic. If Christians were predominately Obama lemmings like Rutherford, you would hear little from Louie Jr.

  455. The stupidity of “equal rights” for rectum rompers is the most transparent lie of them all. You’ve got it right, Rabbit. This was a redefinition of marriage and Caesar dictating he will be worshiped above all else. Equal rights was already applied and always has been.

    Funny how these men who complain about Obama suddenly find him so palatable when it comes to moral issues. No irony and completely predictable, as I don’t find them to terribly different when push comes to shove.

  456. Yesterday, I wrote we need to push back and revolt against the fascists who want to destroy the country as it is.

    Here is another example. Donald Trump is surging in the polls in part because Univision virtually called him a racist, and Trump pushed back with a law suit after they canceled the Miss America pagent. Trump also banned the executives from golfing on his golf course.

    They have now sort of apolgised but Trump is still suing and didn’t accept their words.

    While we are at it, the Washington Post is bigoted against conservative Asians. I over state, but the fact is that they racially attacked Bobby Jindal.

    Calling Justice Thomas an uncle tom is part of the same thread of bigotry and racism the left directs against conservatives who have escaped from the plantation. His biography is not one of a weakling.

    The leftist war on women is equally disgusting. The attacks on Sarah Palin and Michele Malkin are just two examples.

    We need to counter attack face to face or in letters to the editor whenever someone injudicuously uses race or gender as a weapon.

    The latest result is the Telemundo back peddling and Trump’s Palin- like success numbers. I hope they stop personally attacking Trump, before he ends up as our president.

    Rutherford, I saw a movie based on a true story. An ocean liner sank and too many passengers were on a life boat. The captain of the boat persuaded passengers to vote some of the survivors off the boat so all could survive.

    I am sore, but not too sore to pick more cherries and prepare for a boat outing with our grand daughter in Omaha. I have never seen so many cherries on that tree.

  457. “Rabbit perhaps Muffy is right that I lack a core?” -R

    Which makes talking about things pointless. See my original point.

    That’s why you giggle and high five yourself when you “win” without any logic. You are Machiavellian, not that bright and one of the walking dead.

    No core means means only mob rule and might makes right. No core means you don’t care about the Republic. A strong man delivering results is fine with you. An oligarchy bringing home the goods is all that counts.

    No core means you can take prepackaged ideas and run with them.

    God bless the 2nd amendment if you and your zombie brood happen to get too brazen.

  458. Well said, Rabbit. Well said. As a side note, I have often wondered how somebody can go all through life without having core principles. IMO, that is a sign of madness and weak mind. If somebody were to ask me what my core is, I could explain it in one paragraph.

    I wonder if Rutherford could?

  459. “Basically, Huck is saying we have no right to define marriage by gender”

    Ummmm…sorry, but no. That is not what I am saying. Not even close.

    My comment had absolutely nothing to do with my personal opinions or with the dissent, for that matter. It had to do with why these suits were brought about in the first place. I read the dissent AND the approval.

    Read the text. On page 1 it states the petitioners cited a violation of the 14th Amendment by denying them the right to marry and have their marriages recognized in other states. Is not the 14th Amendment the one that deals with matters of equal rights?

    I didn’t claim what the issue of gay marriage was about for me. Personally, I couldn’t give a damn, either way. It doesn’t affect me. There are only 2 people on the face of the earth who can define what my marriage means–and I am 1 of them. If that isn’t the same for every other married person here, then maybe you need to reflect on your own marriage instead of someone else’s.

    I think people should have been fine with civil unions. I think it should have been left up to the states. What I wrote had nothing to do with any pretext by the petitioners, or the gay community, in general. It was about what was written in the document I was told to read to gain a greater understanding of this. So when I wrote “Gay marriage was about gays being denied the same right that others enjoyed”, what I was “basically saying” is that the petitioners felt their equal rights protected by the 14th Amendment were being violated–which is exactly what the text says. If that makes it obvious I didn’t read the dissent, then I think it’s obvious ET didn’t read the 39 pages that came before it–especially the 1st one.

    We can argue about how the 14th Amendment shouldn’t have applied. We can argue that the dissent makes better legal sense than the approval. We can argue about how this is legislating from the bench. We can argue about states rights. But none of that has anything to do with what I wrote. Stop putting so much effort into attributing words and positions to me and focus on what I actually write.

    As for what I actually wrote, it was more to do with this slippery slope argument that is taking shape here and elsewhere. Again, I don’t see where same-sex marriage is going to lead us to polygamy, because the 14th Amendment does not apply. Nobody in this country has the right to have multiple spouses. So it’s not like some people are being allowed to do what others are not being allowed to do. If we were going to base it “long standing tradition” or religious texts, as I see being argued here, then we wouldn’t have just had the ruling we had—which has no basis in long standing tradition OR religious texts.

  460. Huck, what we can’t argue about is what you said was the premise of the debate. And that was equal rights. Like I said, every single male of age can marry any single female of age and vice versa. By definition, that is equal for all.

    What has been done under the guise of “rights” is to redefine what constitutes a marital relationship, a concept that gone virtually unquestioned for thousands of years between the complementary sexes. I realize you have no affiliation or reason to believe anything of religion and how it is defined by Creator, but even natural law dictates what that the continuation of the species is between male and female. That arrangement of both male and female and their complementary influence by all empirical studies the most efficient and effective means of raising the succeeding generations. Our massive failure as society demonstrates beyond debate those failures when we try to deviate from those methods, trying to circumvent the ultimate importance of the innate.

    What is the underlying purpose of sex? Forgetting the higher order of pleasure, love, physical intimacy, emotional sharing, what is the natural law governing why creatures, including humans, have sex? Is it not procreation?

    We humans have evolved to the point we can trick nature most of the time in preventing pregnancy with intervention, but not without unnatural methods unless there are physical limitations. The act of sex ultimately is intended to propagate the species, and that is a physical impossibility between same sex. In fact, those people who like to bring up other species who may manifest homosexuality, and I think that is just ignorance of pack animal behavior, are reminded gently by me those homosexuals are also culled from the herd and left to die, or worse.

    My question not directed towards you but anybody, is what gives five people the influential right to decree by force what nature (and God) clearly dictates moot?

  461. Huck, you take too limited of a view of the interpretation of what constitutes “equal protection” and “substantive due process.” You may have missed a lot of the analysis which focused is heavily rooted in that distinction and why so much of the Roberts dissent is tracking through the .

    Here’s the skinny:

    Substantive due process analysis applies when a state law affects fundamental rights, and, unlike in equal protection analysis, the law does not classify among people. In other words, the law affects all people, rather than a specific classification of people.

    When a law burdens the exercise of fundamental rights, the Court will apply a “strict scrutiny” analysis — an extremely tough burden for the government. The legislature must have passed the law to further a “compelling governmental interest,” and must have narrowly tailored the law to achieve that interest. In order to do so, that means that the Court has to find that there’s a “fundamental right” at issue.

    In this case, it is “the freedom to marry” which is why the “definition of marriage” is the crux of the analysis. It is also why your “polygamy” comment is not as ironclad as you seem to think it is. And actually, I am confused why you are so sure of it if you did read the whole of the opinion.

    An equal protection analysis is triggered when people similarly situated are treated differently (ie, classified). In other words, equal protection review applies when a state law affects the rights of only some people with respect to a specific activity, i.e. singling out gays for disparate treatment.

    You’re looking at the equal protection aspects (not really relied on, and in fact glossed over) because your starting point is that marriage is “one for one” and, since we’ve never recognized anything different, there is no “similarly situated” when it comes to polygamous union. Perhaps you missed in reading the opinion that in the briefing and at oral argument, the equal protection argument was abandoned. One of the main criticisms in the dissents is that the majority conflates the due process and equal protections analysis.

    So, if I have missed what you said, tell us why the now-existing “freedom to marry” could never be interpreted to include polygamy under this decision. The broad pronouncements of why that freedom exists under the majority opinion wouldn’t exclude it. So, if you work through it thinking about it from a “fundamental right to marry” due process standpoint, I think you’ll see the error in your logic.

    And since the dissent explicitly addressed the polygamy argument, don’t get all butt hurt when I say you missed it in Roberts’ dissent. Same thing with the tax exemption issue.

  462. I wish I had said it, because I hinted to it the other day in Rutherford’s ignorance about Clarence Thomas and his ignorance – my inference being you could shove Rutherford’s brain up a gnat’s ass and it would look like a B B in a box car.

    Did you notice that there was not an iota of speculation about how the four Progressive justices would vote?

    There was never a shadow of a doubt. In the plethora of opinions generated by these three cases, there is not a single one authored by Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen Breyer, Elena Kagan, or Sonia Sotomayor. There was no need. They are the Left’s voting bloc. There was a better chance that the sun would not rise this morning than that any of them would wander off the reservation. ~ Andy McCarthy

    And these are the people who now been elected to play God? And because of personal biases, no one takes issue with these four Leftist activists. We need a revolution in this country. Something to provide a spark that so throws the fear into these assholes, they don’t soon forget. At least the Muslims got that going for them. Perhaps the rest us should follow suit.

  463. That video was entertaining. 😆 But I think you got it wrong, Tigre. After watching those two, I think there is a desperate need for polygamy. I damn sure don’t want these two betas mating with any female.

    And I damn sure hope the radicals don’t see that. Those two will only empower those wanting to kill us.

  464. FWIW I never called Thomas an Uncle Tom in this thread. I called him dumb and suggested his race played a role in his replacing Thurgood Marshall. That has nothing to do with being an Uncle Tom.

  465. Holy shit Tigre, that was epic.

    I was rooting for the fat guy who stile the bong.

    Embarrassingly, that reminds me of about 100 brother fights I got into growing up. The sloppy style, the accusations of pusy.

    Funny shit.

  466. “I damn sure don’t want these two betas mating with any female.”

    And I spit out my beer….

    That got me thinking. Maybe polgamy could work out. One liberal coffee breath chick with dark black glasses marries two betas.