Income Inequality in 60 Seconds

Until I searched for it on the net, I thought I was the only one irritated by the AAG reverse mortgage commercial starring former Senator/Prez candidate/actor Fred Thompson. Then I saw comments with adjectives such as “arrogant”, “condescending”, etc.

Let’s take a moment to break it down. Fred is walking down the street talking about a financial instrument that only real estate owners would have any interest in. We are talking about middle class and up.

As he passes the local newspaper salesman, he asks “Jesse” to agree with his pitch. “Right, Jesse?” as he tosses change at the dude, grabs his newspaper and keeps walking.

First, since Fred starts his pitch before he is anywhere near Jesse, clearly Jesse couldn’t know what the hell Fred’s talking about. And therefore Fred doesn’t really give a damn how Jesse feels about the matter.

But let’s suspend judgment for a moment on the logistical absurdity of the ad. Let’s say Jesse did hear the start of Fred’s pitch. The answer to “right, Jesse?” should have been:

I wouldn’t know much about reverse mortgages because I can barely pay my f$&@ing rent. Do you think everyone is contemplating financial instruments to help in their retirement? Do you realize I will NEVER retire much less own a home? Do you realize I’ve peaked? Do you understand I will die selling papers on this damn street? Do you have ANY idea how I and people like me struggle every day, living paycheck to paycheck?

Keep your money, take the paper and shove it up your 1% ass. Right, Fred?

Not only does this ad illustrate income inequality in 60 seconds, it also shows how oblivious the privileged are to it. What purpose does “Jesse” serve in this ad other than to show Fred is on a first name basis with the unwashed underclass? The stark contrast between Fred in his tailored suit and Jesse is so gratuitous you have to wonder what the producers were thinking.

It prompts the rage that fueled Occupy Wall Street, a movement that fizzled as fast as it started. As we head into the election season, will any presidential candidate address the vast gap between the haves and have nots? Hillary will certainly not do so credibly. Liz Warren and Bernie Sanders don’t stand a chance.

So the poor, basically, will continue to be screwed. Right, Jesse?

What do you think? The bar is open.

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741 thoughts on “Income Inequality in 60 Seconds

  1. Nope. Nothing.

    I’ll go ask the middle class hippies and rapists that traveled to the OWS even to feel relevant.

    In the meantime, I’ll feel the rage. And simultaneously do what I can to kick the poor in the nuts. Maybe I’ll vote dem.

  2. For fucks sake Rutherford your link reveals you were outraged during the Chrissy Hayes Show. Way to boost your credibility lol !
    Listen real people in the real world converse with the masses via ridiculously slanted genteel platitudes. Whether it’s the bus driver or lobby security guard or paper guy faux familiarity is a socially engineered norm that is phony but well intended.
    I’m sure everyone you know could recount an episode of having a conversation and upon looking at a bystander not part of said conversation was asked “You know what I’m saying'”? or “Am I right”?

    As for a vehicle of social inequality I personally find reverse mortgages to be a trap that the 1-10% ers wouldn’t dream of falling into. Instead of leaving a potential financial boon and legacy shift for ones survivors a RevMo leaves a debt or at least a contested asset.
    I think for accuracy sake Fred should be seen walking down a far busier and dirty street. One with a homeless person or two walking by.Perhaps a couple of kids demonstrating the art of diversity too. Jesse should have a paying line that goes something like this.
    “You know Fred I think my mom should get one of those to help with some bills and take that trip her and dad never got to take. I don’t need to inherit the house to better myself”.
    If it went like that both the ads target audience would be properly identified and your post wouldn’t be so thoroughly silly.

  3. Ted Cruz’s father came to this country at the age of 18 with little money or knowledge of English. My wife’s grand mother moved here from Sweden at age 16 also with no money or knowledge of English. She moved in with her 18 year old brother who knew a smattering of English and had a job. She found a job cleaning houses and doing laundry,

    I have met legal or illegal Mexicans who work awful hours under terrible conditions as they follow harvests north to Canada. They live in Mexico City and other places where they own houses with two car garages, and they save money for retirement.

    What is Jessie’s story? Why is he still selling newspapers? Does he have a mental deficiency which has allowed him only to reach that level? Or did he make wrong decisions when he was younger? Did he not study in school, or did he not imagine he could make a newspaper stand into a larger business?

    The commercial irritates me too, but so do the millions of people who could have made something of themselves but didn’t. Now, they want to drag us who sacrificed and worked hard for what we have down to their level. Most of us who are now comfortable earned what we have through hard work,dilegence and sacrifice. Luck is also important, but some luck is merely preparation and seizing opportunities.

    I also wonder how many of the fabulously wealthy owe some of their wealth to crony capitalism practiced by left and right, including Warren and Obama.

  4. What Alfie said 😉
    But I admire your passion, Rutherford
    Bet Jesse got paid well for his few seconds of fame!

  5. {sigh}

    A commercial which is not aimed at the 1% but the elderly, who generally use the equity in the home to supplement their income? That’s your example of hypocrisy and unfairness? LOL

    Personally, “Jesse” probably is representative of the demographic the commercial marketed to: geriatric lower to middle class whose greatest worth is tied to their home which has appreciated over 40 years, yet they need the supplemental income to offset the zero interest rate their $20K CD is drawing thanks to the real 1% residing in D.C. and the machinations of the FED pushed by the D.C. crowd.

    Why do you think the stock market has appreciated 100% in four years? Short of a very few firms like Apple, corporate earnings damn sure haven’t appreciated anywhere near that degree.

    This dam bursting will make 2001 and 2008 look like a still creek. Everyone whose not underwater on their home mortgage may be joining Jesse if Hillary makes Pres.

  6. Alfie, the MSNBC attack on reverse mortgages by the Hayes Brain Trust has been going for some time. The majority of the liberals fixated on it are focused the injustice of wealth not being passed along to the next generation because it is consumed. Got that? Self interested whining about not receiving unearned wealth is driving it. Rutherford’s weird-assed observation about the news man/boy is the byproduct of the imagery-fueled outrage from the “gimme some” crowd.

    OWS, a movement of ideas.

  7. If OWS is targeting those that need to tap the equity in their home to get by, Rutherford, you need multiple pimp-slaps. Shame on you for buying into this manipulative MSNBC bullshit.

  8. Now that we’ve got this transparent class envy covered, how about Bowe Bergdahl and the Rose Garden scene, Rutherford? Since you will ignore me, I’ll leave this question to the crowd.

    What should be done with Bergdahl and how much should the Republican Congress push to shame Obama for his treason and abject stupidity, if it is even possible to shame Obama? Yes, I know Obama should be impeached for a multitude of reasons, but we know America too afraid to throw this bum out for obvious reasons.

    And a second question is, what makes anyone think Hillary Clinton won’t use her gender as Obama has used his race to hide behind and commit egregious lawlessness? Change the word racism to sexism and its all the same game.

  9. Lol. So, we’ve moved on to analyzing the merits of paid advertising? I thought your teevee life was Tivoed. 😀 Now you’re dabbling in one of my areas of knowledge. Jesse is put in there intentionally, as Tex noted. Jesse represents small business. Nobody has informed him the internet is screwing with business plan. But we haven’t tapped him completely, thus the sales pitch. What’s next?

  10. And simultaneously do what I can to kick the poor in the nuts. Maybe I’ll vote dem.

    That was actually funny.

    P.S. To you and all others, it would help to click the link and watch the commercial if you’ve never seen it. Just sayin’.

  11. Tex, I hate to say it, but Bergdahl is just old news at this point. The media will not give it the discussion it deserves. They are still protecting the affirmative action President.

    The ones that care will be unmoved because they already know what fucking incompetent ninnies we have in Obama, Rice and Kerry. It’s painful to discuss.

    The ones that should have their eyes opened to that incompetence (1) don’t know who Rice or Kerry are, (2) couldn’t locate their own state on a map, or (3) are Rutherford who couldn’t locate any state other than his own on a map.

    Now what about the social injustice of that reverse mortgage ad with a homeowner strutting down the street selling a product to those that have got to sacrifice their last asset to live rather than pass it down to the 99% apparently comprised of English and Womens Studies majors that have to shine shoes or sell newspapers because they couldn’t get the a sweet gig frothing lattes for the Hayes’ watching douche bags that already got theirs.

  12. For fucks sake Rutherford your link reveals you were outraged during the Chrissy Hayes Show.

    I’ll have to go back to see where you got that impression. Did the site say what show was on when the ad aired? If so, I didn’t notice. After considerable searching that was the only link to the ad I could find. Couldn’t even find it on YouTube.

    I’ve seen the ad over a dozen times and it leaves a foul taste in my mouth every time. Your point on reverse mortgages is well taken though.

  13. I watched the ad. I’m kind of disturbed by what you apparently think it signifies.

    Rutherford do you offer pleasantries to the vast unwashed that collect the toll or take your order when you pull to the window in that electric Fisher Price mobile? If so, FUCK YOU, you privileged unaware douche bag! 😆

  14. Rutherford are you denying the Hayes connection?

    The whole thing is a Mediaite and KOS topic. Coincidence again?

  15. What is Jessie’s story? Why is he still selling newspapers? Does he have a mental deficiency which has allowed him only to reach that level? Or did he make wrong decisions when he was younger? Did he not study in school, or did he not imagine he could make a newspaper stand into a larger business?

    All good questions James.

  16. If OWS is targeting those that need to tap the equity in their home to get by, Rutherford, you need multiple pimp-slaps.

    This is taking a direction I did not intend. I’m not going deep on the legitimacy of reverse mortgages nor am I condemning those who take advantage of them.

    My critique is limited to the “characters” in the ad. Alfie makes a valid point that in common discourse, Fred’s casual inclusion of Jesse in the conversation is not unusual. For me, there just seemed to be a noticeable contrast between these two men of different classes and the one man’s myopic vision of the other.

    I’m talking symbols here.

  17. Tex 12:59 March 26 in previous thread:

    From the WAPO:

    <

    blockquote> Critics — and an independent review by the Government Accountability Office — said President Obama broke the law in authorizing the release of five Taliban detainees held by the United States in exchange for Bergdahl without consulting Congress. Maybe you finally have your impeachment fodder? “Broke the law” is pretty tough language.

    As for Bergdahl, very likely a crackpot. If insanity is a defense for desertion, I think he may have a case.

  18. “My critique is limited to the “characters” in the ad”-R

    I did click on the link and watched the ad. It just reminded me of why I don’t watch TV.

    IMO the characters in the ad look like people strolling down a typical sidewalk in NY city so nothing out of the ordinary there. On any day in any given city you will find similar characters. Since it’s not the subject matter that concerns you I’m assuming it must be the depiction of the “haves and have nots” and therefore that is the point of your blog post ???

    I’ll ask my niece if she gets paid for non speaking roles although I know she would do them for free to get the exposure.

  19. Thanks,Rutherford. I am separating the elder Cruz from his nuttiness.
    I agree, one might say he as a person is not worthy of emulation, but he still created and lived his own American dream.

    Bergdahl may well be a crack pot. He is still innocent before the trial. However, Obama’s and the press’ behavior is a larger issue. Obama touted Bergdahl’s release as an example of his superior administrative abilities, and his allies denigrated contrary opinions, especially of the men who served with him. His negotiation results were weighed in favor of the enemy, and he did not consult with or notify Congress.

    My aunt died at two weeks from 100. She bequeathed her house to our children, but the nursing home got the house. She could have used a reverse mortgage loan to pay for her last couple of years of care, but the result would have been the same. She had no heirs, so living on her estate didn’t hurt anyone.

    My wife and I were in several non-speaking television commercials. We got $2.00 an episode. That may have changed by now,

  20. Rutherford,
    First of all AAG actually have their own YouTube channel

    Second,yes if you screen shot your link it included amongst its mass of info when the commercial aired. Hayes show was there. I found it more an irony than necessarily the seed of your angst.
    Third,I now get that you’re more about the symbolism and I can only say you are experiencing something you look askance upon when it comes to the Right.You’re applying waaaaay too much interpretation to the commercial.

    Still I’m willing to dig a little deeper into the symbolism,except I’m not quite sure I understand it.:))
    What’s your bigger picture here?

  21. Rutherford all laws matter even ones passed for dubious reasons but if you look a little deeper than WaPo you’ll see the “law(s)” Obama & Co. violated actually amounts to not notifying Congress of the release and that funds were used that were earmarked for other things.
    As I commented on the tail end of the previous thread this story is D.O.A.

  22. “I’m talking symbols here.”

    You started out talking about the comments and blog posts resulting form the ad. They are what I said they are. Please don’t do the evolving narrative thing again.

  23. what makes anyone think Hillary Clinton won’t use her gender as Obama has used his race to hide behind and commit egregious lawlessness? Change the word racism to sexism and its all the same game.

    That will clearly happen. Identity politics makes headlines.

  24. Well…there is 3 minutes of my life I’ll never get back.

    Outrage over the reversible mortgage comerical targeted to seniors with out much of a nest egg. Oh…the horror… He bought a newspaper. Oh….I’m so mad at rich people. So mad at the 1%. Fucking buying things off of people and shit.

  25. Fuck DR. Not only does this ad illustrate income inequality in 60 seconds, it also shows how oblivious the privileged are to it. How do you watch that without becoming enraged? You’re the privileged guy. . . I guess. . . remorseless. . . privileged. . . aloof. . . prick.

    You want to waste an hour of your life? Try tracking down the MSNBC and blog commentary he was referring to. Those are some sharp folks. Mad as hell at the rich old person not handing down their wealth because they’re greedy.

    Enraged yet?

    (evolving narrative in 5, 4,3 2, . . . )

  26. I thought your teevee life was Tivoed.

    Good point Pools. I watch way more commercials than I need to. Sometimes too lazy to grab the remote and skip. AND there are some commercials I really like.

    The site I linked to in the piece was found by me just yesterday. Looks like they rate commercials. I’ll have to peruse the site a bit more.

  27. selling a product to those that have got to sacrifice their last asset to live rather than pass it down to the 99% apparently comprised of English and Womens Studies majors that have to shine shoes or sell newspapers because they couldn’t get the a sweet gig frothing lattes for the Hayes’ watching douche bags that already got theirs.

    WOW No kidding, that was almost eloquent and no typos along the way. Is that really you Tigre? You must be at a desktop instead of fat-fingering the mobile phone. 🙂

  28. Rutherford do you offer pleasantries to the vast unwashed that collect the toll or take your order

    If it were about pleasantries I’d have no gripe at all.

    There’s a world of difference between “thanks Jesse” and “right Jesse?” That’s what’s got me puzzled at best and pissed off at worst.

    If the goal was just to show Fred as a friendly guy walking down the street who gets his paper and thanks Jesse cos he knows Jesse from his previous purchases, THAT might make sense. But, as I wrote, he “includes” Jesse in a conversation that 1) Jesse couldn’t possibly comprehend because Fred started talking up the street and 2) a topic Jesse 99% likely doesn’t give a shit about.

    The ad ain’t good. Now you’re within your rights to say I shouldn’t extrapolate it to some grand social argument. That’s fine.

    In fact I’ll go as far as to concede that while the poor aren’t likely to have mortgages they can “reverse”, the instrument itself is not aimed at the 1%. So you guys have got me there.

  29. Rutherford are you denying the Hayes connection?

    I swear on all that is holy to anyone here that I’ve seen this ad many times and never seen it criticized until I tried to find it via Google last night. My outrage is completely detached from any MSNBC discussion of it since I’ve never seen an MSNBC discussion of it. In fact I was surprised to find out anyone had the same reaction I did.

  30. Yes…he was so mean to Jesse.

    The hilarious perpetually offended class. Just want to shove everyone of them into a locker.

    It’s so hard to respect a liberal as a man. I don’t know any real men who woukd take offense to some obscure commercial over nothing, let alone type a manifesto about it. Rutherford, you are a huge pussy, sir.

    .

    I think of my Grandpa, who I loved dearly and came to this country with 7 bucks. I would love to see his face when he hears the Rutherford sobbing. He would be baffled.

    Funny the guy in the suit is giving Jesse business.

    Hell….Jesse might be doing damn good at that newspaper shop.

    Jesse would kick Rutherford’s sissy friends’ asses.

  31. IMO the characters in the ad look like people strolling down a typical sidewalk in NY city so nothing out of the ordinary there

    No Raji I don’t mean the folks strolling down the street. By “characters” I’m only referring to the two main characters starring in the ad, Fred and Jesse — who in my mind did represent haves and have nots though no doubt not the ad’s intention.

  32. My wife and I were in several non-speaking television commercials

    James you ARE a character. Between being hit by a train to being in commercials to serving in Nam I can’t think of what you HAVEN’T done!

  33. You started out talking about the comments and blog posts

    Read the first sentence of the piece again. I said I was surprised to find out I was not the only one annoyed by the ad. The comments I found on the net did not inspire the piece. They just re enforced it.

    I’ll help you with chronology so we are crystal clear.

    1) Saw ad several times and got pissed.
    2) Saw thread of current post getting long – time for new post. Hey? Why don’t i bitch about ad?
    3) Wanted to embed ad in post. Googled and had trouble finding ad. Didn’t see AAG channel on YouTube.
    4) Found a couple of cites, one of which had ad embedded. (The one I linked to.) Noticed comments on these cites that echoed exactly what I had been thinking. Which is why I start the piece with: “Until I searched for it on the net, I thought I was the only one irritated by the …”

    Got it Tigre or do you need more help?

  34. “Oh and Tigre, why you got so much Bimmer hate? You want me driving a good ole American car?”

    Bimmer is a status car, Rutherford. You know that. Doesn’t have to be American and Bimmers are good cars (not one that I’d drive ’cause of the maintenance and the statement), but for the guy that penned this weird piece about a guy in suit being some kind of wealthy sociopath in an reverse mortgage ad aimed at really people and not SMNBC twats, you. . . complete me.

    You think the dirty paper man/boy in the highly over the top, offensive and inhumane ad would approach you with a dollar in hand from the seat of the Fisher Price toy car? I think not. He wouldn’t want to get any of “it” on him. But he’d look for an opportunity to get a job with Fred I’m sure.

    Rutherford, this is seriously the most fucked up post you’ve ever written. I am totally confused at whatever you are projecting but know I hate the place it came from. It says a lot. None of it good.

  35. “James you ARE a character. Between being hit by a train to being in commercials to serving in Nam I can’t think of what you HAVEN’T done!” -R

    I can. He’s never got upset over a TV commercial because it appears that one of dudes in the commercial might have less money then one of the other dudes.

  36. Oh Tigre I left out one item:

    After I went looking for video and found others had been there done that, I almost didn’t write the piece but I did it anyway.

  37. “Got it Tigre or do you need more help?”

    Nope. More honesty. This came straight from MSNBC or one of its similarly situated moron outlets. I don’t believe in you, MSNBC and coincidence.

  38. “Bimmer is a status car, Rutherford”

    Ha. Ha.I forgot about Rutherford’s BMW.
    So weird.

    3 cars I just couldn’t drive. Jaguar, Benz and BMW even though some are high performance. Draws an odd kind of attention I wouldn’t be comfortable with or even feel safe with. And it’s different kind of attention then a bad ass whip or truck draws that is comparable in price to afore mentioned.

  39. How about Hummer DR? Nothing says douche more than a pussy electric or a Hummer. Opposite sides of the same douche coin.

  40. Either that or Jesse will break into Rutherford’s flashy Beamer for beans and rice money. Fuck the 1%….family needs to eat mayyyyn.

  41. This came straight from MSNBC or one of its similarly situated moron outlets. I don’t believe in you, MSNBC and coincidence.

    Not only did I tell you the truth, I drew you a picture. If you don’t believe it you can go fuck yourself.

  42. Lol..Hummers are pretty bad. Particularly the H3. How horrible is that thing!!

    Embarrassingly, I think there might have been a time when I thought Hummers were cool.

  43. Anyone that drives that H3 piece of shit should be forced to ride in the back seat of Rutherford’s toy car and wait while Rutherford completes his shopping at Whole Foods.

  44. The fact that Trump polls fourth with conservative voters shows just what idiots they are.

    One question to correctly limit the voter pool. Is Trump fit for POTUS? Anyone who answers yes gets voting rights stripped for life.

  45. RCP latest polls. Trump hasn’t made the list but Bernie Sanders comes in 4th for the Dems.

    2016 Republican Presidential Nomination CNN/ORC Bush 16, Walker 13, Carson 9, Huckabee 10, Paul 12, Christie 7, Rubio 7, Cruz 4, Perry 4, Jindal 1, Santorum 1, Kasich 2 Bush +3

    2016 Democratic Presidential Nomination CNN/Opinion Research Clinton 62, Biden 15, Warren 10, Sanders 3, Webb 1, O’Malley 1
    Clinton +47

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/

  46. “Anyone that drives that H3 piece of shit should be forced to ride in the back seat of Rutherford’s toy car and wait while Rutherford completes his shopping at Whole Foods.”

    He probably does what me and my wife used to do there. Fill our shopping cart with all that expensive food and then bolt, realizing there was no way we could afford it.

    So the shopping car sat next to the fine cheese isle and some poor Jesse had to restock all the shit.

  47. Says the guy whose party has Biden polling second.

    Should he be allowed outside without a helmet and bite-stick?

  48. DR I have a formerly obese friend who had a come to Jesus moment in a grocery store and looked at his overflowing cart, got disgusted and left the store.

    Got his stomach stapled and dropped a lot of his weight.

  49. So do I understand that most here think leave no man behind only applies to good soldiers? Wasn’t Bergdahl considered a prisoner/hostage when he was traded?

    I’m just shooting relatively blind here but trade then prosecute sounds like the best of both worlds.

  50. “The fact that Trump polls fourth with conservative voters shows just what idiots they are.”

    According to your own poll 245 out of 500 (49%) describe themselves as conservative. 60% were registered Republicans. The rest were moderates, liberals, undecided, and Dems.

    6% of those polled were Dems who intended to vote in the Republican primary.

    The question asked was who would be your first choice to win the Republican nomination?

    Out of 500 polled 277 answered Undecided as to their first choice to win the Republican nomination.
    17 people said Trump was their first choice.
    15 people said “Other” was their first choice.
    75 people never heard of Scott Walker

    You’re welcome.

  51. The Army did the right thing. Obama wanted to start emptying Gitmo and no one was taking these guys. If this goes to trial and deserter boy is found guilty while Obama’s still in office he’ll likely pardon him. The left will make deserter boy a hero.

    Lefties sound pretty funny saying stuff like “we leave no soldier behind.”

  52. I don’t believe Obama will pardon Bergdahl if given the chance.

    Muffy stop mocking the left long enough to answer the question. Do YOU believe leave no soldier behind or should Bergdahl have been left to rot?

  53. Love your “wit” but no one is choosing Sanders as a running mate.

    On another note … another reason to hope HRC doesn’t win is the thought of Muffy ending every comment for the next 8 years with “and sexism”.

  54. On a lighter note, technology can be scary.

    If your iPhone 6 is plugged in (charging) Siri becomes fully active and can be invoked with just a voice command, no need to press the home button.

    Someone on TV tonight said “Are you serious?” and I swear my kid’s phone responded “I’m always serious”.

    Call me old fashioned but I don’t think inanimate objects should be making commentary on your TV viewing.

  55. On a lighter note, technology can be scary.

    That’s a lighter note? Smart technology doesn’t enhance our intellect, rather captures it. It sees you when you’re sleeping. It knows when you’re awake. It knows when you’ve been bad or good, so be good for goodness sake!

  56. “Tigre Biden in 2nd place is name recognition. And he’s a DISTANT 2nd.”

    The fact that he appears is all that’s needed from the party of ideas.

    Hahahahahahaha. Party of ideas.

    One of Biden’s best ideas was putting chocolate milk on his breakfast cereal to give it a kick start.

    Biden and HRC is all yours, Idea Man.

  57. “You were given the choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor and you will have war.” ~ Winston Churchill’s admonition to Neville Chamberlain after Munich

    Watching history repeat itself with Neville Obama and Iran. What a fool…

  58. Don’t buy a Samsung SMART TV Rutherford.

    To second Alfie’s suggestion, I had a few dealings with Samsung’s Customer service over both a 55″ TV and BluRay player. And I swear to you the customer service and the friendliness were better at GM in 1984 when your new car had the driver side door fall off (this actually happened to a friend).

    I thought maybe I had just been unfortunate – but in searching the internet, I have found that is a pretty common opinion.

    I will not buy another Samsung product.

  59. I just bought a 42″ Vizio for the bedroom. Paid less that $300 at Costco and I’m happy with it. Customer service was excellent. Smart teevee is a waste. I got the Amazon Fire and it does a great job.

    Refresh rates over 60 are kind of waste of mony unless you primarily watch sports. 120 is okay and the standard but IMO if you can save a few bucks go with the 60 since movies default to 60 and are shot for 60. The higher rates actually distort in movies.

    My Samsung was a pain in the ass form the date of purchase.

  60. How awesome is it that we can buy HD flat panels for a few hundred dollars these days? I love consumer technology that the Asians can produce cheaply.

  61. We are home again.

    Read Betsy’s Page. The Bowe Bergdahl was another regime lie. Obama traded five terrorists for one soldier who was already suspected by his fellow soldiers of desertion. Obama hinted that his real motive for the transfer was to make it part of the transition process of ending the war and to “whittle away” at the number of Gitmo detainees to make the prison irrelevant.

    “This is the language of a president more concerned with pursuing his ideological fixations and fulfilling a misbegotten campaign pledge than winning a war or securing the country.

    Muffy can speak for herself. In my opinion, given what the president should have known (because I knew it) Obama made a bad deal. He should have bargained harder, but he didn’t care. Bergdahl should have been in Rutherford’s words, “left to rot.”

    I also don’t think Obama will pardon Bergdahl. Obama will rely on short memories to make it go away, and he will do nothing to remind people.

  62. I just bought a 42″ Vizio for the bedroom. Paid less that $300 at Costco and I’m happy with it.

    Did the same thing at Best Buy and feel the same way – please with the quality. For $300, I don’t get bent about problems. For $1,400, I do. The Samsung clown told me I should just buy another brand if I didn’t like Samsung’s service. I shit you not. Until that moment, I had been nice. After that, I was not.

    I will grant them their wish. Just like I did with GM 30 years ago. Just like I did with Discover Card ten years ago. Competition is a great thing…

  63. Oh, and I forgot about the worst of them all. AT&T. The only thing they did professionally is turn off my service. They did that in a nanosecond. And they were real smart asses too about six years ago – LaKeisha, or something.

    Guess what? They’re literally begging for my business now. I get a mailing every other day, somebody soliciting every month on my front porch. 😈 Too bad, so sad.

  64. Dr. Frieda Burnbaum was interviewed on radio station KF
    AB this morning. She said the pilot had suffered from depression which interrupted his earlier training. People who knew him had noticed changes in the past couple of years. Additionally, he had converted to ISLAM. I looked it up and found sources. Whether or not they are true, the charges will fuel the anti-immigrant movement in Europe.

    Obama’s behavior juxitposed with the suicidal pilot created an image in my mind. Picture Obama as a pilot who is taking the plane down as a crowd tries to break down the door. It is partly open, and the mob is ready to surge through.

    Ironically a reaction to 9/11 inadvertantly doomed the passengers. Doors were later made to be more secure than they had been. It was a big change. I rode a cargo plane back to the US after the service. We sat a few feet from the crew and visited with the pilot and others during most of our trip across the ocean. Quite a change.

  65. We still have the same television we bought in 2004. It works fine. We also don’t have a smart phone, so Samsung can’t evesdrop on us. Why waste money on something else?

    Competition is wonderful, isn’t it? We paid over $1,200 for our first video camera in 1988. Tapes cost $12.00 or more. Its true that features have simplified, but now a $200 to $500 camera is almost like a disposable ball point pen.

    I replaced our Panasonic camera after I accidently ran over it with our car. It still works, but has problems. I bought another after our train wreck killed the replacement camera. The next one failed after lightning passed through me and fried part of the machinery. I like Panasonic though it may not be the best brand. Battery charges, etc are interchangeable. Any camera to survive being run over by a car is pretty tough.

  66. Ha Ha!! Alfie. I’ve used up most of my nine lives.

    “My candle burns at both ends. It shall not last the night, but ah my foes and ah my friends, it casts a lovely light.”

  67. “A Samsung SMART has a setting that can listen to the room it’s in.”

    I missed the reference.

    Samsung still sucks. And if they want to listen to my conversations, I hope they’re a bunch of pussy liberals and soak it all in. 😈

    James, you got the Bergdahl routine right. It’s a typical Obama politically motivated n embarrassment but only if people care. They don’t. Obama don’t. The family? Needs top be locked up withy him. A bunch of weird fuckers. No wonder they were invited to the Rose Garden. Maybe Obama introduced him to all of his black celebrity friends.

  68. To the degree it matters there is a series of Samsung SMART televisions that have a SIRI like feature that can hear what is said in the room the tv is located. The concern was raised on the offhand chance someone prances around their room reciting sensitive personal information.
    I like my Samsung TV but then again I haven’t had to service it. I know someone with one of those magnetic stovetop things and they can attest to Samsungs customer service quality…it aint good.

  69. @ Rutherford as a point of wasting more of my time relative to a previous comment. The Urban Institute has released a study pissing on the efficacy of picture id for SNAP’ers. I find the study completely disgraceful and disingenuous since it looks at the wrong problem regards phot id and welfare benefits.
    They focus on the fact that retailers are key to the largest part of fraud sound in the SNAP world. They don’t check IDs and let the EBT card be used illegally most likely by people who have acquired wellie bennies.
    The photo ID program has been proven to work in keeping people from getting the bennies illegally in the first place. Two different problems getting treated as the same thing for the sake of a larger false agenda.
    I hate America some times I really really do.

  70. Saw a report that made me chuckle regards the perverse reality of the finding.
    An area of great personal interest to me is New Urbanism. Well on the inequality front the ” We should be more like Europe” crowd has gotten their wish. The USA has been sububanizing it’s poverty so now American cities have in fact become more European. Lol

  71. What’s a package store?

    Obviously I had the same question. Never saw them in metro NY so when I saw one in CT the name meant nothing. You’d think I’d get a clue when the signs in the window advertised liquor discounts. But no, I boldly walked in, saw nothing but booze and was STILL stupid enough to ask the store clerk “you got donuts?”

  72. I replaced our Panasonic camera after I accidently ran over it with our car. It still works, but has problems.

    LOL! LOL! Reminds me on me running over my briefcase with my car when I was in a hurry to get to the airport. Put briefcase on ground, threw suitcase in back of car, forgot briefcase. It didn’t work when I was through with it – got out a saw to open it. 😈 I was pissed at myself.

    Guess I’m glad it wasn’t suitcase or luggable computer – what they used to call portable. This COMPAQ reminded me of carrying around a sewing machine. That was 1985 – and the damn thing cost $6,000.00 with a 51/4″ floppy drive and 40mg Hard Drive. Tall cotton back then.

  73. I hate America some times I really really do.

    Watch out, Alfie. You’ll be accused of being evil, an enema of the state, aligning with our enemies – or something to that effect. Most folks can’t accept criticism of what they hold dear, regardless whether the criticism is true or obvious.

    We are an unhealthy culture overall for sure.

    I believe it was intended – planned in advance and carried out.

  74. Saudi Arabia will not rule out building or acquiring nuclear weapons, the country’s ambassador to the United States has indicated.

    Asked whether Saudi Arabia would ever build nuclear weapons in an interview with US news channel CNN, Adel Al-Jubeir said the subject was “not something we would discuss publicly”.

    Pressed later on the subject he said: “This is not something that I can comment on, nor would I comment on.”

    The ambassador’s reticence to rule out a military nuclear programme may reignite concerns that the autocratic monarchy has its eye on a nuclear arsenal.

    Western intelligence agencies believe that the Saudi monarchy paid for up to 60% of Pakistan’s nuclear programme in return for the ability to buy warheads for itself at short notice, the Guardian newspaper reported in 2010.

    The two countries maintain close relations and are sometimes said to have a special relationship; they currently have close military ties and conduct joint exercises.

    The Saudi Arabian regime also already possesses medium-range ballistic missiles in the form of the Royal Saudi Strategic Missile Force.

  75. So G, as we obsess over Iran, is it Saudi Arabia we now need to keep our eye on? If we don’t want nuclear proliferation we shouldn’t let ANY of those countries get the bomb. Of course we’ve already given Israel a pass so we have ZERO credibility.

  76. Ich kann Deutsch verstehen. But you don’t need to understand German. Right click and select : Translate to English. I swear the ‘smarter’ technology becomes, the dumber humans become.

    The opinion piece notes that the German government was lying and leading the public. It questions why the obvious misinformation is being fed to the public.

    I have read numerous accounts now and all I will say is the official story is definitely bogus. The suicide angle doesn’t seem to be supported by the facts. One has to only check with the official airbus manual to confirm their lies. Other German pilots have spoken truth to it.

  77. Rutherford French and German have reported points that seem to counter the conjecture.
    One he wasn’t from Bremen
    “Other item” found in his home most likely sick notes
    No terror ties

  78. “Muffy stop mocking the left long enough to answer the question. Do YOU believe leave no soldier behind or should Bergdahl have been left to rot?”

    Just in case there’s a point you’re trying to make with this inane question, I leave it to the people who know best – the military – and support whatever they decide.

    I imagine that each “soldier left behind” is a different story. No soldier is going to leave a wounded buddy behind even if it means risking his own life. These guys jump on grenades to save each other for heavens sake. Some of them never stop looking, devoting decades if necessary to finding and recovering the remains of dead soldiers and returning them home. So Barack and y’all mouthing “we leave no soldiers behind cos that’s not who we are” over this guy when it was ALL about Gitmo makes me a little bit nauseous.

  79. “Of course we’ve already given Israel a pass so we have ZERO credibility.”

    We don’t always need credibility. Power can replace that. A reality you libs never understand.

    Credibility should be something this treasonous administration has with the American people. Not stink beards.

    I don’t know shit about combat, but I sure wish someone put a bullet in Bergdhal’s head and I wouldn’t care where the bullet was manufactured. Can you imagine the fathers of those that died looking for the turn coat having to be tortured by the Obama administration? The anger would put me in the ground.

    That traitor got people killed. And the vile Obama administration lied to us. They chose to team up with the Taliban to score Gitmo political points.

    Honor and distinction. I hate them.

    It doesn’t get lower then that.

    Susan Rice is a treasonous piece of shit.

    Obama a liar of the worst kind.

  80. So Barack and y’all mouthing “we leave no soldiers behind cos that’s not who we are” over this guy when it was ALL about Gitmo makes me a little bit nauseous.

    First forget your “y’all”. I couldn’t have given a damn about Bergdahl one way or another.

    If Obama’s motives were as you say, then your nausea is completely understandable.

    By the way, the only questions you find inane are the ones you don’t want to answer or the ones asked from outside your clique.

    As Tigre (I think) noted, Bergdahl’s dad is a crackpot. I think Bergdahl is an interesting case of “deserter or prisoner?”. When he was turned over he looked very disoriented, not like some virulent enemy of America.

    I think the trial will be interesting.

  81. We don’t always need credibility. Power can replace that. A reality you libs never understand.

    Lack of credibility wins us enemies, a fact you conservative hawks don’t understand.

  82. “Do YOU believe leave no soldier behind or should Bergdahl have been left to rot?”

    So why is this relevant?

    If this is just one of those late night rap sessions then don’t bother. I think the question is pointless and sounds like one of those lame “then what’s YOUR foreign policy” whenever someone challenges Obama’s judgment or methods.

  83. Rabbit and Muffy are understating the reality that is this regime out of politeness, I suppose.

    One German writer said that Germans pay generous health and leave benefits. Luftansa would be financially better off it they ignored the pilot’s mental or health concerns. Maybe cost saving had something to do with hiding the truth before the murder, or maybe it didn’t.

    The alleged Muslim conversion may also be a planted story, but if it becomes popular, it could be as effective as the 9/11 urban legend that our government knew in advance or staged the attacks.

    It will strengthen the argument of anti-immigration organizations in Europe.

    I mused about Obama’s being a pilot aiming an airplane to the ground. A former Obama administration official said our Middle East policy is in free fall.

    Iraq and Saudi Arabia are rivals. If as it appears, Obama and his lackies will let Iran get the bomb, Saudi Arabia had little choice but to follow suit. The Saudis helped finance Pakistan’s nuclear program, and it would be logical to assume they will ask for some of the benefits.

    Obama has gotten us into a fine mess, and ironically, the French may be the ones to try to stop him.

  84. sounds like one of those lame “then what’s YOUR foreign policy” whenever someone challenges Obama’s judgment or methods.

    Now that’s odd. You find it unreasonable for someone to ask about your alternative when you criticize?

    I stated what I believe. We basically got a win/win. We got our guy out AND we will now bring him to whatever justice he deserves.

  85. Rabbit and Muffy are understating the reality that is this regime out of politeness, I suppose.

    James, you, one of the most polite folks on the board, are the first person to ever describe Rabbit and Muffy as polite. 🙂

  86. Enemies will always be there no matter what.

    Now allies…. There you can make a case for the importance of credibility. Hence Saudi Arabia now feels it needs the bomb.

    A Sunni Shia nuclear arms race in the middle east. Awesome.

  87. Rutherford, I do enough to know Obama traded stink beards for a traitor. Obama’s people also tried to besmirch and discredit the traitor’s fellow soldiers who Bergdahl may or not have been a traitor, because he has not been tried yet. However, he deserted his post, and at least six men died trying to get him back. I wrote this earlier today. Check the links to Betsy’s page.

    Liberals don’t understand the political effects of power. Mao Zedong said “Political power comes from the barrel of a gun.”

  88. France is leading the charge against Israel right now. As for its intentions on Iran I doubt these are as anti Obama as some want to believe

  89. Ironies of reality is IF Saudi Arabia opts for a nuclear weapon they’ll have one quicker than Iran. Pakistani warhead in a Chinese missile breakout in 90 days

  90. Ha Ha! Rutherford. We are not in a win win situation.

    The men released are living in luxury in Quatar until they can resume the fight. I think one of them may already be ready to fight. This was not the win Obama expected. The adverse reaction tainted what was supposed to be an important demonstration of Obama’s leadership.

    He is winning only because people have short memories. For the rest of us, our win win situation is akin to buying a cheap new car with a flood damaged engine.

  91. Now that’s odd. You find it unreasonable for someone to ask about your alternative when you criticize?

    I said I did. I said I found it inane and irrelevant.
    You have your answer. Are we done?

  92. Anybody that would vote for Hillary Clinton is rotten to the core, a POS, and a traitor to country. She wipes her harddrive – the woman is so beyond the pale, I find it hard to understand how anybody can’t look at her without disdain. The entire Democratic Party is without morals, without decency – and they laugh about it. Laws mean nothing, rules mean nothing. Why in the hell are we keeping this country together?

    If this country goes to war and I find out your a Democrat, I will sell your sorry as down the road if I get the opportunity, I don’t give a damn if they cut you and your family’s heads off. I’m not kidding either.

    The Republican Party has my permission to play equal – fuck these assholes every way you can.

  93. The Republican Party has my permission to play equal

    I’m certainly glad they have your permission to do evil. 🙄
    Like they were waiting on it to begin. 😈

  94. Kenny Bell and the Jazz men are helping me wash that evil crone out of my hair tonight.

    Ancestry.com says I am 1% European Jew. I guess I can feel Jewish about as often as Elizabeth Warren can feel American Indian.

  95. “Of course we’ve already given Israel a pass so we have ZERO credibility.”

    With whom? The Iran deal is killing our credibility and has the potential to create new enemies. Even you only trusted source (MS)NBC sees that:

  96. Rutherford, your concept of “credibility” is very strange to me. Please elaborate on you concept of “credibility?” Seems to me have some foolish notion “fairness” that you conflate with an equally foolish notion of “credibility.”

  97. Let’s try that again without typos so I don’t have to hear you bitch about it.

    Rutherford, your concept of “credibility” is very strange to me. Please elaborate. Seems to me have some foolish notion “fairness” that you conflate with an equally foolish notion of “credibility.” What do you mean? Obama (and Kerry) were vociferous about not allowing Iran to procure nuclear arms and that’s changed to guaranteeing that it does. Credibility?

  98. As usual Tex goes over the top but …

    There is something VERY wrong with polling that says a substantial number of Dems don’t trust her but a landslides worth will vote for her. I even quoted an author in a previous thread who wrote a damning account of email-gate but said he would vote for her.

    Say what you like Tex, but there is a difference between Obama and HRC. BO was a blank slate in 2008 upon which his supporters painted a messiah image without reservation. The supporters of HRC know she is a lying hot mess and they STILL plan to march off the cliff like lemmings.

  99. Tex, against my better judgment I watched Pool’s brother Nate video. I usually skip them because the man is truly an obsessed anti-Semite. But he raised a question that puzzles me where you’re concerned.

    Jews say Christ was a lunatic or a liar. Why do you accuse me of this and get angry but you give Jews a free pass?

  100. “The supporters of HRC know she is a lying hot mess and they STILL plan to march off the cliff like lemmings.”

    Rutherford, Obama has been on office 7 years and he has proved himself a lying hot mess. You marched off the cliff with him in 2012 and STILL do. What the fuck are you talking about? You guys don’t give a fuck about lying hot messes. You create them.

  101. Even you only trusted source (MS)NBC sees that:

    First, Richard Engel, to his credit is an outspoken skeptic on US FP. He’s one shining example of why MSNBC can be more fair and balanced than Fox.

    Second I never claimed our FP, if we have one, wasn’t complicated. I simply said it strains credibility for us to worry about Iran going nuclear when our closest ally in the region already has and another of them may do it in the near future with the help of another of our crazy allies Pakistan, who already has.

    Either we want to stop nuclear proliferation or we don’t.

  102. Obama (and Kerry) were vociferous about not allowing Iran to procure nuclear arms and that’s changed to guaranteeing that it does.

    Why are you buying the world according to Bibi hook line and sinker? 10 years is a long time. They won’t have the bomb for at least that long and by then Islam may have finally calmed the fuck down.

    How do you know the deal (which isn’t even settled yet) is a bad deal?

  103. Rutherford, you don’t even come close to answering my question. WTF??

    What are you talking about with the credibility routine? I used the clip of Engel (which I guess you didn’t bother watching) to show that we have a credibility problem AS A RESULT of the dealings with Iran. We have a credibility problem when we fight for and against the same forces. We have a credibility problem when King Obama and the his doofus SOS announce one thing early in the administration and, INCREDIBLY, do a 180.

    “Lack of credibility wins us enemies, a fact you conservative hawks don’t understand.” -R hours ago.

    Again, what do you mean by credibility? Do you even know?

  104. “Lack of credibility wins us enemies, a fact you conservative hawks don’t understand.”

    To

    “Second I never claimed our FP, if we have one, wasn’t complicated.”

    That’s rich.

    What do you know of the deal Rutherford? We all get your willingness to walk of the cliff for Obama without knowing. But what do you know, if anything?

  105. “How do you know the deal (which isn’t even settled yet) is a bad deal?”

    Tell us why it’s a good deal.

  106. Tigre I don’t know what’s so hard to understand other than our FP is hard to understand.

    As far as credibility goes, I’m simply saying that turning a blind eye to Saudi Arabia getting the bomb and Israel having the bomb while we vehemently oppose Iran getting it is a problem. Why? Because we claim Iran getting the bomb would spark an arms race. Why wouldn’t SA getting the bomb spark an arms race?

    Ok here’s your “evolving narrative”. Maybe credibility isn’t the right word? Maybe we’re talking consistency.

  107. “Why wouldn’t SA getting the bomb spark an arms race?”

    I didn’t say it wouldn’t. In fact, I believe they have the ability to obtain them from Pakistan on any event. So?

    “Tigre I don’t know what’s so hard to understand other than our FP is hard to understand.”

    Because you’re arguing there’s something that’s easy to understand by saying it’s complicated, then not explaining it. Seems like you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. You can’t even explain what you’ve said.

  108. Oh and btw Tigre, oddly enough, Engel says we have no credibility with Saudi Arabia – they don’t trust us. Now admittedly that’s not the credibility problem I’m addressing but it’s there. (It’s more along the lines of what DR said – we lack cred with our allies).

  109. Yes. I said that. Richard Engel is saying that US allies in the gulf won’t tell Obama anything because they believe that Obama is leaking secret information to Iran to kiss up to them.

    Yep. That’s cred. Let’s try it again:

    “Lack of credibility wins us enemies, a fact you conservative hawks don’t understand.”

    Who doesn’t understand?

  110. From what has been said about the deal (even by Bibi) we get a delay in Iran getting the bomb. That’s worth something. Bibi says Iran is playing for time but the same could be said for us. More time with Iran non-nuclear is more time to figure out how to KEEP them non-nuclear.

  111. Is this what the late night rap sessions were like for you at Harvard?

    If so, I think the lunch line rap sessions at community college got more going for them.

  112. “More time with Iran non-nuclear is more time to figure out how to KEEP them non-nuclear.”

    But your point was that Israel has them now so why shouldn’t Iran have them now, you know, for consistency or credibility or whatever? They’re going to be a better country later?

  113. Surely you jest, Rutherford, (and I’m not calling you Shirley.) Many of us are transplanted Brits and French with ties to the old countries.. Germany is another friend with millions of German-Americans living here. We are such natural allies that during WW1 German and allied soldiers on one front stopped fighting, sang Christmas carols and played soccer. We destroyed some of those countries and then helped them rebuild.

    Lets try Libya. “A Message from Tripoli :How Libya Gave up its WMD. Junior military officers led by Qaddfi took over the country and forced Wheelus Air Base and other American and foreign bases to close. Jimmy Carter placed Libya on a list of four sponsors of terror in 1979.

    Events deteriorated as Qaddfi sponsored terrorism and obtained weapons of mass destruction. The US and allies put Libya under economic sanctions. Libyan ships sailed into the Gulf of Sidra and Qadiffi dared Sixth fleet to cross his line of death. Reagan ordered air strikes against Libyan targets, including Qaddfi’s compound. Libyan allies bombed Pan Americian flight over Scotland and later a French air liner over Niger.

    Allies engaged in secret negotiations with threats and the promise of rewards for years. Suddenly, Qaddifi announced he was getting rid of his weapons of mass destruction and would be more cooperative. Why did he change his mind after all of those years? Besides the secret negotiations, our invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq convinced Qaddifi he had more to lose than to gain by keeping his banned weapons. Simply put, it happened because of George Bush.,

    Our ally Israel bombed Iraq’s and Syria’s alleged nuclear plants. We could still damage Iraq too, but not if they have the bomb. Iran is experimenting with exploding nuclear weapons high in the air. They would disrupt our communications and power grid as much as a direct hit from a large solar storm. The Carrington Event in the 1850’s illustrates the possible damage.

    And you dare to say delaying Iranian nuclear weapons development for ten years is a good strategy?. Our family raised and killed chickens for part of our years’ food supply when i was a boy. Suppose we delayed our mass murder for a week. The chickens would be happy, but in the end they would be just as dead. Obama is showing the world we are untrustworthy.

    I see no defense of the evil foreign occupier (Sofia Jannok’s words) certainly not by you. You are a smart man and doing as well as anyone in your position could do, but even a masterful comedian fails with bad material, and yours stinks to high heaven.

  114. Ward,you’re being kind of rough on the Beaver.
    Folks Rutherford isn’t completely wrong and his inability to explain why he isn’t is more about him being a social progressive wonk lacking FP chops.
    The current administration,and I say it that way because its bigger than Obama and Rice,are part of a school of pragmatics who see an inevitability and have chosen a different path.
    This is not Neville Chamberlain-esque appeasement in my opinion. A detached study of US policy in the region illustrates how we have lost considerable control,treasure and credibility and this also goes beyond Obama & Co. No doubt “leading from behind” has had ill effect. I just don’t know given the BIGGER picture how dealing with Iran is so crazy.
    Russia and China are preparing to bail on the sanctions and there is absolutely NOTHING President GOP-X can do about that.
    Our “friends” the Saudis were all over us to have Americans die in Syria so the “head of the snake” could be cut off. They offered f#$%ing nothing though.
    The Saudis have provided over 100 planes to the GCC+ coalition they formed to attack Houthis in Yemen and are going to bankroll along with Qatar 25-50 thousand ground forces,primarily Egyptians.
    Regional policies still exist with or without US involvement and more often than not the USA gets blamed in the end. As it is we’ve sided with limited involvement and are providing logistical support to the coalitions actions.
    Whether on the grand chess board this is a point of punctuation so the Iranians recognize others will still involve themselves in the same places they choose to therefore continued negotiations are proper is yet to be seen.
    Iranian nuclear technology is an inevitability. They have accomplished what they have to date under the pains of crushing international sanctions. Entities in the west have started to feel the pain of those sanctions as well and they will not be tolerating that pain much longer and definitely not after Russia and China end runs them.

  115. I’m certainly glad they have your permission to do evil. 🙄

    I shouldn’t waste my time being you and your brood of multi-generational idiots are irrelevant but…

    You’re one of those I was talking about. And it troubles me that it doesn’t bother you and millions like you that we have laws in this country that people like Hillary Clinton are above and in fact, millions even consider her worthy to hold a position of high leadership like President. And that boggles my mind because that clearly signifies this country is truly sick, sick, sick – like you.

    Of course, I find you a snake in the grass and a monumental phony – certainly not who you profess to be. Nonetheless, I thought even you might be able to see through how truly wicked the Clintons are.

    Spare me your stupid shit about all of them are that way. Comments like that deem you a useful idiot (which you rate).

  116. This is not Neville Chamberlain-esque appeasement in my opinion.

    I could not disagree more in opinion. In fact, I find it a large magnitude worse than Chamberlain in both action, or lack thereof, and potential consequence. And yes, we could do something about it. America has the might – but lack the backbone and the will.

    Once again, the world will leave the dirty work to Israel…after which she will be loudly condemned by Huck’s beloved U.N., while the cowards secretly thank their lucky stars.

  117. Yeah, that’s what Rutherford was saying. 🙄

    Please cut the shit. I know you want to help him and I know you think Obama’s deal is dandy but none of that salvages the idiotic Chamberlain-esq commentary. Give yourself a pail or whatever. The Nazi’s may not have needed Chamberlain either and it still doesn’t fix the “credibility” become “consistency” happy pappy simplistic Rutherford liberal “coexist” bullshit.

  118. I was thinking what Rutherford’s take on the Cuban missile crisis would’ve been.

    And I laughed, and laughed, and laughed. . .

  119. Not to change the current subject but headlines are ridiculous. As of today we have “Lubitz sought treatment for vision problems before Germanwings” then there is “One day the world will know my name” and “German pilot visited glider field near crash site as a child”. That last headline is really stretching the news.

    We will never know why the man committed suicide and took 149 people with him no more than we will ever know why Sandy Hook happened.

    The fact that HRC erased her hard drive isn’t even the top news anymore but Lubitz still is !!!!!!

    Why anyone watches or listens to the news anymore beats me.

  120. I usually skip them because the man is truly an obsessed anti-Semite.

    😆 He is controversial. White supremacists don’t like him, either. To me it’s illustrative of first Corinthians 1:27 where It says God chose the foolish things of this world to shame the wise. Br Nate was raised a Jew by Jews. Now he’s an embarrassment to them. Jews call him a self-hating Jew. That’s the label every Jew critical of Judaism gets.

    Israel is a state borne of terrorism that possesses at least 300 nukes. It has a history of espionage, stealing what it wants. Its actions are always justified by claims of historical persecution and a fictitious deed to the land. It practices racism in law and action. It has no love for America, merely uses and abuses US to its own end. Always has. Even the kosher wiki does not deny it:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_political_violence

  121. Why anyone watches or listens to the news anymore beats me.

    I watch to see what lies are being told and what political actions will soon take place based entirely on those lies. It’s all so Orwellian.

  122. No, Alfie, i don’t suggest attacking Iran. I do suggest our current dilemma has evolved from our inability to be strong and consistent.

    It is not a coincidence that our position has unraveled more rapidly during Obama’s administration. Through most of this time, we have said nuclear weapons for Iraq are unacceptable. Suddenly it is time to reach an accomodation which makes Iran’s becoming a nuclear power more likely. If that is to be our new policy, then why the hell didn’t we present this years ago..What has changed? I submit to you that we have become weak and the rest of the world knows it.

    Our position is coming undone because the world no longer sees us as a little erratic, unpredictable and potentially dangerous. China and Russia with ambitions of their own understand better than we the changing dynamics. An Arab army might be a good thing, because it is their fight .However, I wonder what they will do if Iran’s nuclear weapons become a certainty.

    We can threaten Iran without invading. For example, someone infected their computers with a virus. We could have supported the Green Revolution and we still could foment unrest or inflict heavier sanctions. it is harder now, because we appear fleckless, and when we economically hurt Iran, we also hurt other countries who may be friendly with us. We may have little choice but to let events continue on their present course, but at least we can blame the people who made it happen. They deserve our scorn.

    As time passes, our options shrink, and I think we may one day be driven to something which passes for military action. By then, the choices will be so stark we may be reduced to Sampson’s position–pulling down the pillars to kill the Philistines and himself.,

  123. Tiger,not for nothing but you don’t know shit. I’m no more privy to the P5+1 negotiations than anyone else here so I have no opinion as to the dandyness of the “deal”. I do firmly believe that international engagement with Tehran is the best route to something akin to a peace dividend though since rhetoric and sanctions have failed.
    If you think war is the answer I think you a fool. The truth as Tex stated that we don’t have the will coupled with the fact that as of right now we haven’t the right kind of makes the notion pure folly.
    Too many people in America are looking at the region through a 20th Century West-centric lens and the picture you’re seeing isn’t reality.

  124. The majority of the liberals fixated on it are focused the injustice of wealth not being passed along to the next generation because it is consumed. Got that? Self interested whining about not receiving unearned wealth is driving it.

    As an estate planning and probate attorney, I can second this in practice 100%.

    And for those who bristle at the idea that this somehow cuts into a legacy for the next generation, I can tell you as someone who has spent a great deal of time at the table with moms and dads and grandpas and grandmas who worked hard, saved scrupulously, and delayed their gratification, many of them are far more troubled by their adult children and grandchildren who possess a sense of entitlement that eclipses their work ethic, and the resulting disgust at that often helps them to enjoy the fruits of their labor without remorse about the asset not being available for their children, especially when those same children are often still receiving more in tangible possessions than their parents and grandparents left behind for them.

    And because I’ve had those conversations with my clients, I can preserve that perspective for when I have the inevitable meeting with the kids and grandkids, whose reactions too often range from disappointment about the debt or “contested assets” to outright anger that the now-deceased parent or grandparent dared to enjoy their accumulated wealth by spending it on themselves, or give large portions of it away to charity instead of to issue and offspring who arrogantly presumed that it was going to come to them one day, and without a trace of guilt, I respond to their disappointment and anger with an undeniable, perspective-anchoring truth “Look. It’s a GIFT. They didn’t have to leave you ANYTHING, and I know that it was an option they considered for EXACTLY this reason. You don’t have to accept it, but only an ingrate accepts something that a family member worked most of their life accumulate while lamenting or cursing the fact that the gift wasn’t big enough. If you don’t want it, I can prepare a disclaimer, and you can sign it before you leave my office.”

    Rutherford, I can’t help to get irritated with you when you post shit like this and repeat the inane pap that your thoughleaders keep spooning down your willing throat. It’s a green-eyed monster named ENVY that gets its back up over things like “income inequality”. ENVY is GREED’s retarded and ugly half-sister, and the people she rides turn as ugly as she is, so much so that the ugliness can’t help but to work its way out from the inside.

    Don’t be ugly. It doesn’t become you. It doesn’t become anyone.

  125. ENVY is GREED’s retarded and ugly half-sister

    😆 Awesome word imagery. Put that in a vaccine and force it on the nation.

  126. BIC your comment reminds me of how lucky we are. We worked and sacrificed to create our little ag empire, and the children worked with us. Both are successful and don’t need the money our farms could give them. They agree they both want the land for sentimental reasons and they trust each other. Both children tell us we should spend more of the money on ourselves. I bought my brother’s part of the land inherited from our parents, and there was no rancor. We purchased our land from six owners, and everything was fine with them all.

    My wife inherited a third of a farm in another county and it is a problem. The three sisters have not been able to divide the farm in over 15 years. it might come to partition.

    We want the land to provide for our children when they reach retirement age and to support our grand daughter someday.

    We earned what we have. I resent attempts by socialists and others to make us feel guilty for what we have created for ourselves. Yes, envy is greed.

  127. We earned what we have. I resent attempts by socialists and others to make us feel guilty for what we have created for ourselves. Yes, envy is greed.<<<

    No, envy is WORSE than greed.

    Greed impels a person to work harder to accumulate for the sake of accumulation.

    Envy casts its cockeyed gaze on what others have, and covets it for itself, while whispering in the ear of the unfortunate soul it has its spurs in things like “It isn’t FAIR” and “You DESERVE what they have.”

  128. Not for nothing Alfie but Rutherford’s paradigm of “consistency” and “credibility” speaks to something different than your points entirely. He’s talking about “fairness’ in whom we decided should have nukes, you’re talking about the value of “international engagement” with Tehran, and I’m talking about OUR engagement with Iran. If you don’t think the deal’s dandy you swerve out onto the lawn to avoid running it down while criticizing those that are bothered by the whole process and its implications. Furthermore, you might note I haven’t addressed “the deal,” didn’t pretend to know what it was, haven’t called for war or anything else about it. I responded to Rutherford’s comment about our inability to understand the credibility of opposing a nuclear Iran. So, I’m glad you know all of this shit. You may start your conversation with Rutherford on those topics now. Mine ended last night and didn’t involve them.

  129. When you put it that way, I agree.

    My wife and I never felt greed, because we didn’t want to be at the end of the line as we were in Essex, England. Our cottage was occupied for 450 years before we moved in. It was our first real home as newly weds.We fixed it up and it became ours. We often wondered who had proceeded us. Everyone said it was haunted, and we did hear noises and saw strange things, but we imagined the former occupants were checking in to see that we cared for what used to be their home. Two years after we left , the cottage was gone.

    James, my ancestor had TB and he thought his life would be short. James knew he wasn’t going to wait for death in New York. He became part of the California gold rush, but the only gold he found was the ring on his finger after he saved the life of a miner’s teenaged son. James returned to New York convinced that the road to wealth was in the West. He convinced his father and cousins to travel to western Iowa with him. They bought swamp land near the Missouri River for $1.20 per acre, not as a farm but as an investment to profit from what they expected a big city would grow. James bought more land and opened a store. He finally owned two stores.

    James knew he would soon die, but he wanted to make the most of what time he had left. He hired managers, left town and moved to West Point, Nebraska where he taught school. He sickened and moved back to New York were he died before age 35. I have his letters and steamer trunk.

    I could tell you even more details about James and other ancestors down to my parents. I “know” them as if I had met them. We could have taken the easy way out and sold the land during the farm recession . Many did, but If we had sold the land we would have broken a chain as we had in England.,We would have let down determined people. They held the land through adversity. What was wrong with us that we would betray what they had built?

    John Melencamp described the attatchment to land in ” Blood on the Plow”. One of my high school class mates went to the barn and blew his head off after the bank threatened to foreclose. I don’t know if we own the land or it owns us.

  130. John Melencamp described the attatchment to land in ” Blood on the Plow”. One of my high school class mates went to the barn and blew his head off after the bank threatened to foreclose. I don’t know if we own the land or it owns us.

    I was thinking about this last night as I watched “The Judge” (The review is up at my place, BTW), and you could almost feel the contempt for the Indiana corn country that Robert Downey’s character felt as he was driving through it to return home for his mother’s funeral.

    I knew and know the people who live in places like that, and I know how easily our cultural betters on the coast look down upon these people who get up before dawn every morning to put in more labor and toil than some city dwellers put in in a week, without ever considering that without the people they look down upon so casually, their own lives of relative ease would not be possible.

    After working daily with that land, in every condition, and every circumstance for their entire lives, I’m unsurprised that those same people become “rooted” in that soil, Tex. It isn’t a life for everyone, but I’ll take a committed farmer over an economist or professor any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

  131. BiC, since you invited it, I read your review of the Judge. Sorry I had to drop a bomb on it. I HATED the movie, at least the part I watched before my wife and I gave up on it.

  132. I saw Rutherfords comments speaking to how we don’t have much power in the region as our credibility on a host of issues is tarnished.
    I found the Engel bit superficial as it rests on a black and white one size fits all fallacy trying to call out inconsistencies without any respect to what actually causes them.
    Our initial goals in Syria were never in line with either Saudi Arabia or Iran. This caused a huge rift with the Saudis as well as deepening the one with the Turks. I pointed out before though that a hearty Fuck You was due them for demanding/expecting US blood and treasure to flow for their goals.
    Syria deteriorates in no small part secondary to international pressures and stupid red lines. The international (non Arabic) community got rid of the chemical weapons and were pretty much happy about moving along diplomatically. Sadly the US decided to search for mythical moderates and then feigned shock when an element crawled out of the ashes of Iraq and Syria and started cutting peoples heads off. Headless citizens spurns a response hence renewed actions in Syria and Iraq. That our focus on our interests is to rid the world of ISIL (primarily due to Iraq) than to topple Assad is deemed an inconsistency.
    US support of the Saudi lead operation in Yemen isn’t focused on pissing on Tehrans leg. The USA wants a stable Yemen so AQAP can be opposed. Does anyone think the Saudis care more about AQAP than they do the Iranians influence peddling and the fact Houthis attacked the Kingdom in 2009?
    I’d put it to the bar that even when its been pretty fucked up about it the USA has had a good amount of consistency about policy in the Middle East and contrary to some beliefs it isn’t about allies be they Saudi Arabia or Israel.Our credibility,reliability or whatever with friends and foes alike is tarnished but totally polishable. Our actions are and will continue to be consistently about our interests.
    As for P5+1 this is also true. Yeah we don’t really give a rats ass about Saudi Arabia and Israel when it comes to countering a nuclear Iran,the Persian Gulf,the dawning of the two New Silk Roads,Afghanistans renewed narco state potential and on and on.

  133. I didn’t have a problem with the story per se. Just too Hollywood for my taste.

    But there again, I always have problems with courtroom drama. I have a friend that’s a vascular surgeon and he cringes at medical drama. MASH used to throw him over the edge.

  134. Now THAT I understand.

    Kind of like when I see people come together for “The reading of the Will”.

    Gahhhhhh.

    One of my wife’s favorite movies is “Legally Blond”. I usually have to leave the room to keep from repeating “Kill me now” under my breath.

    I liked “From the Hip”, because it was an interesting dilema he got himself into, and the bit on the admissibility of the word “Asshole” was funny as hell, but most of the time, I can’t watch “legal” dramas either.

  135. Ward,you’re being kind of rough on the Beaver.
    Folks Rutherford isn’t completely wrong and his inability to explain why he isn’t is more about him being a social progressive wonk lacking FP chops.

    Both a funny and true statement. Thanks Alfie.

    I can have an opinion on FP but when it comes to the nitty gritty I always bow to Alfie, Huck and even my political polar opposite Gorilla.

  136. I was thinking what Rutherford’s take on the Cuban missile crisis would’ve been.
    And I laughed, and laughed, and laughed

    Glad you went there. You would have been one of the advisors Kennedy ultimately ignored, calling for some kind of military preemptive action.

  137. The fact that HRC erased her hard drive isn’t even the top news anymore but Lubitz still is !!!!!!

    Raji, HRC strikes fear into the hearts of only a few. Lubitz strikes fear into the hearts of anyone who has flown or soon plans to. That makes headlines.

    But worry not. Our short attention span will push this into the dustbin too.

    P.S. Two more things. People always try to make sense of what they cannot control. It’s a coping mechanism.

    Second I know this sounds strange but it bothers me the dude is charged, tried and convicted with no chance to explain. It’s just such a tidy easy out to pile on the dead guy. I’d feel a bit better if they had him on the CVR screaming “I’m taking this mofo down!” That would give me “closure”.

  138. yeah but the two white guys that live there…..
    My point is a third world nation is holding more secure elections than the USA,less the random terror attacks.

  139. “We are such natural allies that during WW1 German and allied soldiers on one front stopped fighting, sang Christmas carols and played soccer.” -James

    I thought that only happened once, in 1914. Before American entry in the war.

  140. On the reality in medical and law drama I come from a different POV.

    On ABC’s “American Crime” I saw a trach tube removal depicted on TV the first time (at least the first time I ever saw it). I was initially VERY impressed with the accuracy of the details.

    1) Ventilator circuit detached from trach.
    2) Trach tie removed.
    3) Dressing removed from under neck plate.
    4) Tube removed, revealing open stoma.

    My wife and I were “bravo”. Then when I woke up this morning I realized a glaring error. The trach tube had no visible inflatable cuff on it, nor was any action taken to deflate the cuff if it was there and I just missed it.

    You cannot be on a ventilator with a cuffless trach tube. Forced air would go in your lungs AND up your throat into your mouth defeating the purpose of proper ventilation.

    ABC got it ALMOST right.

  141. Hahahaha. Rutherford, Kennedy’s response to rhe Cuban Missile Crisis is a textbook example of preemptive military action. He would’ve taken my advice… I guess. Sheeeeeet. You funny.

    Glad you went there. 😆

  142. Kennedy’s response to rhe Cuban Missile Crisis is a textbook example of preemptive military action.

    I honestly don’t follow you. The crisis was averted with words, not weapons.

  143. Thanks, BIC.

    Rabbit. You are right. I was assuming that even before American troops arrived, the similarity between the two armies would have led Americans to join the Christmas singing. I lumped Americans with allies since they shared a similar heritage and culture. My intended point still stands. Allied and German armies briefly fraternized.

    The high command finally transferred some soldiers to prevent the spread of contagion. Soldiers were disobeying orders and shooting to miss .

  144. “The crisis was averted with words, not weapons.”

    No Rutherford. The crisis was averted by quarantine and threat of military strikes. It was that threat that caused Khrushchev to back down. The plans for the strikes were in place; the threats had been made.

    Did some teach you that the Cuban missile crisis was about US appeasement and tolerance? WTF?? Words??

    Textbook.

  145. I really am glad you went there. I’m guessing now you confuse “preemptive action” with preemptive war or preemptive strike. And in doing so, you’ve unwittingly shed light on the problem with your misuse of the term “credibility” and made your attempt at mocking even more laughable. Gamblers call that a trifecta. 😆

  146. The crisis was averted by quarantine and threat of military strikes.

    Mmmm, sounds vaguely similar to our strategy with Iran — sanctions and a promise to do anything necessary to stop Iran from getting the bomb.

    I suspect you want more than that with Iran — I suspect you want preemptive war. You and Bibi don’t trust Iran (I’m fine with that) so nothing short of destroying their capability should satisfy you. Isn’t everything else just tantamount to our buying their empty promises (a bad deal)?

  147. Tiger your interpretation is incorrect or at least incomplete enough to point out some filler.
    I think it more than likely that if this room was in the Oval you’d have been more likely to call for an assault on Cuba. You would have experienced the end of the world and never thought how wrong you were.
    The Quarantine wasn’t preemptive since a number of Soviet assets were already in Cuba. Gitmo had a nuclear bomb just outside it for crying out loud. There were also troops and other weaponry sufficient to stop any strike. We also cant forget that the Joint Chiefs myopic Cuba only vision didn’t bode well for troops in Germany.
    All events are connected and the Quarantine was just an escalation point. Bay of Pigs +Operation Mongoose + missiles in Europe and Turkey =+put missiles in Cuba = ???
    I’ll give you it was a bold move and superior to some of the options on the table. I’ll give you it was a move that bolstered the image and stature of the USA. Ergo credible .
    Since the Quarantine almost unleashed nuclear war secondary the forward Soviet subs almost launching a strike even that remains questionable.
    All along the negotiation card was being pursued and what saved the day , nay the world was the promise to not invade Cuba and the removal of missiles from Turkey.
    In the in the room scenario Rutherford is Stevenson. Switching metaphors slam dunk

  148. Alfie, I couldn’t make it past the first few lines of your missive beforenjumping here to ask, “what the fuck are you saying I’ve said about miltary action?”

    You’re confusing me with someone else here. Of not, direct me to it.

  149. Though it was totally a blockade and seen as such internationally it was called a quarantine for a reason. Basically words were very much measured.
    Rutherford third times a charm…..

    Serious question Rutherford :
    What do you think is the biggest cause for inequality?

  150. I skimmed the rest of it. I get that it’s your desire to help Rutherford and be the authority on all if this. But what I would do “more than anyone else on the board” is just you trying to be antagonistic without support.

    And , as you say, we can agree to disagree about Cuba. It was preemptive action. It has been described that way by many others, including some of my college professors involved with it.

    Again, point to what I’ve said if you want to back up what you say I would do.

  151. I may be a dolt in the eyes of DR but damn am I getting some historic comparisons lately in these threads:
    Brandeis
    Chamberlain
    Stevenson

    😆

    I think I will retire the blog once someone compares me to Lincoln. It’s hard to top that. 🙂

  152. We created a blockade to prevent more missiles from arriving. We threatened to use ours, were prepared to, and by all accounts had plans for strikes without a withdrawal. That is preemptive. And contrary to Iran, Kennedy wasn’t negotiating for a delayed armament.

    And to my comment to Rutherford, neither Kennedy nor his advisors were measuring the “fairness” of allowing an nuclear armed Cuban platform. Krushiev didn’t turn back because of “words.” He turned because of the threat ignoring the US posed.

    Now point me to what I more than anyone else would because of what I said about “credibility.”

  153. I’m not trying to be an authority Tiger any more than you’re trying to be a cyber bully.
    In your stated position that threats of military strikes were the game changer you echo the Joint Chiefs of the day.
    I had the honor of being a student of one of the Naval Intelligence guys that invented “Dentology”. They discovered that the Soviet Navy and maritime fleet were painting and renaming ships so the fleet appeared larger. He watched as the Soviets obviously loaded the island with stuff and took sugar home.
    My point being the linear nature of the Cold War and Cuba specifically can’t have one of its last events be deemed preemptive.

  154. “Hey DR, while a blockade is more than words, it ain’t weapons.”

    Weapons define a blockade. In this case, floating weapons that can bring the wrath of Poseidon that even Odysseus couldn’t escape.

  155. What do you think is the biggest cause for inequality?

    I started to tackle this last night, realizing the question had already been asked twice by you, Alfie — but as my exchange with Tigre proved, my mind was deteriorating rapidly as the night wore on.

    The simple question merits its own blog post and a very complicated answer. I certainly don’t feel well enough versed to give a complete answer.

    I would start with my post from a few weeks ago. Capitalism is not about fairness — well, in a manner of speaking depending on one’s definition of “fair”. One could say that so long as market competition is fair then the final outcome of winners and losers is fair also. It’s a bit like that distinction Paul Ryan makes between equality of opportunity vs equality of outcome. If one believes that anyone CAN make it in America with the right mixture of moxy and luck, implying the opportunities are there for everyone, then all is fair.

    The question, of course, is are there opportunities for everyone? Would Trump be Trump if his Dad hadn’t done well? Maybe, maybe not.

    What I’m getting at (poorly) is that our basic economic system (capitalism) runs on competition and competition means winners and losers. So long as that is your model, there will always be poor people and there will always be an income gap.

    The reason the gap has increased so dramatically is probably a mixture of several factors: bad tax law, government in bed with the powerful (and rich), a change in business culture (I’ve alluded to this MANY times in these threads over the years).

    To be fair – there is likely also an element of despair combined with complacency and laziness among a small portion of the poor that prevents their advancement. I would stipulate conservatives prefer this reason for inequality above all others.

  156. “The Quarantine wasn’t preemptive since a number of Soviet assets were already in Cuba.”

    Assets? As in Castro himself? The revolution?

    Hell…our backing of Batista was preemptive. All our preemptive shit happen stink and stink bad.

    So…yeah…we failed at being preemptive but surely we tried.

    Or do you mean the missiles themselves?
    Yeah…werent preemptive because we didn’t know they were there until we knew they were there.

    Speaking preemptive, Castro requested a preemptive nuclear strike on the US!

  157. “To be fair – there is likely also an element of despair combined with complacency and laziness among a small portion of the poor that prevents their advancement.”

    An element? Way more then an element.

    Another aspect people never bring up is low IQ. I garuntee the poor (don’t read working class here) have most of the low IQ people in this country.

    Low IQ people are horrible at menial labor. A lot of people assume that isn’t the cas but they can’t do shit. Just dumb.

    Too dumb to roof or do concrete.

    You want to take a chunk out if poverty?

    Keep the family together.

    But I don’t think Rutherford has the sand to go down that road. After all, his friends killed the family.

  158. In 2011, Pao made more than $500,000, Kleiner attorney Lynne Hermle said.

    In keeping with the theme of this post I suggest, in the words of Bill Maher, a “new rule”: If you come to court whining about your salary and advancement at a firm that is already paying you $500,000.00 a year, you should be told to

    STFU

    , drink a martini in your jacuzzi and get on with your life — and get the fuck out of my courtroom!

    Who am I to determine what is an adequate salary? I’m Rutherford Lawson, that’s who! Seriously, this Ellen Pao is a piece of work — sleeping with a married superior and claiming that her vagina robbed her of oodles and oodles of possible income. The link below is old. Yesterday a jury awarded her a big fat ZERO. I don’t usually root for fat cat firms like Kleiner Perkins but I was very happy with this verdict.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/02/26/ellen-pao-kleiner-perkins-pay-differences/24079277/

  159. I’m in a motel in Battle Creek, Michigan right now.

    Punch hole in the bathroom door. Looks like blood on the ceiling. Dirty.

    Battle Creek might not be a ghetto (it’s not exactly the safest place though) but it very might be the worst town in America. Boring. Ugly. Strip malls and a few ancient looking sky scrapers (probably shouldn’t call them that…too small).

    Gentlemen, this place is worse then Toledo.

    My 5 year old as evolved into one of the top wrestlers in the state for his age. Unfortunately for him, there are top 6 year olds and even 7 year olds in his bracket. He pinned a kid and advanced until he ran in an buzz saw. The kid slammed him numerous time. I had a crying 5 year old spitting blood like Rocky. Those are the moments when I question my parental decisions.

    Eliminated from the tourny the question that remains: To tour the Kellog Factory or not.

  160. P.S. I had to chuckle imagining what the jury might have wanted to say, considering how little liked Pao was at her place of employ:

    Judge: Mr. Foreman, how does the jury find?
    Foreman: Your honor, the jury finds the plaintiff to be a first class bitch.
    Plaintiff’s attorney: I’d like to poll the jury, your honor.
    Juror 1: Bitch
    Juror 2: Bitch
    Juror 3: Bitch
    .
    .
    .
    Juror 12: Beeeeyatch!

  161. Its not the gap that matters.

    The gap is a symptom of a broken system. That’s why liberals sweat it.

    When you say low IQ, it almost sounds like you’re saying “mentally retarded”. You seriously believe a substantial portion of the poor, otherwise physically able, are too “dumb” to do menial labor? First, you probably underestimate the smarts it takes to do a good roofing job, so let’s take that out of the equation. But something simple like painting a yellow line down the middle of a two lane road? You gotta be plenty dumb to not be able to do that — dumb as in clinically mentally handicapped. Do you believe a sizable portion of the poor is that mentally challenged?

  162. “Fuck the factory, shell out a bit more for a decent hotel next time. Damn!”

    Lol….this is the kind of shit that happens when Mrs. Rabbit isn’t involved.

    In fairness, I didn’t think he’d qualify. I took this pic before it even filled up.

    He wrestled in front of thousands.

    http://imgur.com/U632aF8

  163. “You seriously believe a substantial portion of the poor, otherwise physically able, are too “dumb” to do menial labor? ”

    Yes. I work with these people every day.

    Low IQ impedes people from doing menial shit. I’ve seen it from the other end too, while doing menial shit.

    I’m talking about the menial jobs that pay decent. In that line of work you have to work fast and not be scatter brained.

    Slow people seem to struggle with spatial awareness. Get the fuck out of my way! That’s what they hear all day.

  164. “Do you believe a sizable portion of the poor is that mentally challenged?”

    Generational looserhood. A learned behavior made more prevalent due to the liberal destruction of the family.
    Drugs and alcohol.
    Low IQ
    Bad luck. (Health issues including mental illness).

  165. That’s a serious tournament .
    During my EMS days I always found it amazing how the poor trended stupid and how they were oblivious to how negative their decisions were. The added awe of it all was the repetitive nature of it all.

  166. FUUUUUCK!!! Second game in a row where my team is winning when I turn it on and I get to watch them lose. I’m a goddam jinx!!! :-(.

    I am NOT watching Duke tomorrow.

  167. I thought Brey played it poorly at the end, Rabbit. When it was tied at 66, I would have failed Willie Cauley-Stein, forcing the one and one, and taken my chances hitting a shot with 20 seconds left even if he had hit the free throws.

    Kentucky is very beatable and it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if Wisconsin beats them. Had Notre Dame had a few horses inside, they would have won that game going away.

    Calipari is almost as nauseating in his “humility” as Hillary Rotten. And I wanted desperately to watch Ashley Judd meltdown in the crowd.

  168. ” I can still hear the soft southern winds in the old oak trees. And those Williams boys still mean a lot to me, Hank and Tennessee. I guess we’re all gonna be what we’re gonna be, So what do you do with good ol boys like me? Nothing makes a sound in the night like the wind does, but you ain’t afraid if you’re washed in the blood like I was. By the light of the radio by my bed with Thomas Wolfe whispering in my head. When I was in school, I ran with a kid down the street, and I watched him burn himself with bourbon and speed. But I was smarter than most and I could choose. Learned to talk like the man on the six o clock news. When I was 18 lord I hit the road. But it really doesn’t matter how far I go. I guess we’re all gonna be what we’re gonna be.”

    Don Williams “Good Old Boys”

    Williams’ song basically answers the question of what makes outcomes unequal? Congratulations to your son rabbit. I am sure he knows how proud you are of him.

  169. I was in college during the missile crisis. Four of us lived in a basement. We bought tarps to cover the windows and bought extra food and water, just in case.

    The Cuban missile crisis makes our point about the dangers of projecting weakness. The failure of the Cuban invasion for which Kennedy was partly to blame because he let the soldiers invade without destroying or weakening Cuban air power as originally planned was one feature the Russians noticed.

    In 1961,Kennedy and Khrushev met in Vienna and Kennedy made a bad impression. The Russians believed Kennedy was weak and naive. He was not prepared to make good decisions in a crisis. It was the second impression of weakness the Russians had.

    Harassment around Berlin and the building of the wall happened after the meeting, because the Russians thought a young weakling would not effectively oppose them. They began to arm Cuba, and thought Kennedy would have to accept and get used to the missiles.

    Kennedy had lied about a missile gap before the election against Nixon, when in reality the gap favored the US. Khrushev thought an armed Cuba would help redress the imbalance.

    Obviously, Kennedy was a tested combat veteran and he was no Obama. The crisis began and both countries compromised to save the world from destruction. Again, one cause of the crisis was Russia’s misjudgement of Kennedy.

  170. LOL Tex’s rant shows me the volumes I would need to learn to have a credible basketball conversation.

    But I will say this. Watching those two free throws by Kentucky broke my heart and for the first time in my life I understood my father’s deep funk when the Celtics lost. The Celtics were his team during basketball season and the Cubs were his team during baseball season. Shame he’s gone now. Can’t tell him “finally, I think I understand”.

  171. Do we really know what Iran wants? What if their plans for nuclear weapons are a diversion to mask their real plan, to control the commercial waterways which take oil to the rest of the world. They have already surprised the Obama regime which is preoccupied with a treaty. Conventional warfare and control would be safer than launching a nuclear bomb. Iran could use it later. Its what I would do if I was the supreme leader. Is it possible Iran thinks the same?

  172. I know less about basketball than you, Rutherford. The sport doesn’t interest me. Now, NASCAR, college foot ball and high school wrestling are another matter.

  173. I find watching golf incredibly relaxing. There was a time when I knew all the names of the top players on the tour.

    I understand the appeal of basketball. Near constant action. Don’t get hockey cos I can’t see the puck clearly. Absolutely don’t get baseball – slow as molasses. But one of the last cool things I did for my dad was take him to his first Cubs game at Wrigley Field. Cubs won in extra innings. I could not have scripted it better myself.

  174. Do you believe a sizable portion of the poor is that mentally challenged?

    Definitely. No skill set. No vision. Poor nutrition compounds the problem. Our society produces more of these undesirables as we advance, but we have no place for them. We prefer them out of sight and out of mind. The is a whole population of homeless living in our midst we have little day-to-day exchange with.

  175. Man….the digital age sucks.

    Even the mundane is cool in old film. The fade….makes it seem like a real memory caught on film.

  176. Rutherford,

    Golf is actually a fun game to play, but I found so few of us actually have the time to practice, it’s difficult to get marginally good. All I could do is drive for show, and I was so inconsistent at that, half the time I was hitting my second shot off the wrong fairway. 🙂 Surprisingly, the only thing that seemed to come naturally to me was reading greens – supposedly, the hardest part of the game. I tried for ten years to develop a short game and never did get any better unless I had an instructor standing behind me – then when I went to actually play, I couldn’t translate that into what I had done the morning before. It was frustrating as hell.

    I say all that to say this. Two weeks ago, I was watching some tournament, can’t even remember which one, and I heard Johnny Miller say, “Take your practice out to the course – get up early or late and hit your practice balls on a real course instead of a range. That’s how you get better.”

    And the thought occurred to me, “How many of us actually have access on a public course where you can drop balls and practice your game? Get real, Johnny Miller. Very few of us belong to a Country Club and even fewer have the money or the time. Do that on a public course and you’ll find somebody driving a golf ball at your head or being kicked off the course by the pro.”

  177. Lucky you, Huck! I wish I had been there.

    I was hoping Jeff Gordon would win since he is retiring. Otherwise, Keven Harvik was a good choice, though between the two of them, I hoped Kyle Buchs would win, given his troubles. My heart actually raced near the end. Brad Keselowski won without even leading an entire lap. Good for him.

    That reminded me of the race when Carl Edwards and Brad drafted to the lead and at the last moment, Keselowski tried to win, spun out Carl Edwards and won as Edward’s car smashed into the retaining fence, with debris injuring some people.Then, Edwards climbed out of his car and ran across the finish line.

    Were you surprised too? What did you see that the tv audience didn’t see?

  178. “All I could do is drive for show”

    You are a lucky bastard. I can count on my hand how many times I drove the ball more then 250 yards (Although I swear on my life I once hit the ball 350 yards with a 3 iron straight as an arrow on a Par 5 hole, ultimately rolling about a 5 feet in front of the hole). Most of my drives are 150 with a bad slice. So embarrassing.

    I have hit a softball close to 375 feet and consistently clear the 300 foot fence but can’t hit a golf ball 150 yards. And softball is the douche bag adult sport option, too. I think I’d trade.

  179. Golf is like watching grass grow or paint dry 🙂
    About the only sport I use to like to watch outside of horse events was NASCAR. Those were exciting days especially the 24 hours of Sebring now Daytona. Car and motorcycle races were the thrillers way back when.

  180. What do you think is the biggest cause for inequality?

    Life!

    Socialist: You have two cows. The government takes one and gives it to your neighbor

    Democrat: You have two cows. Your neighbor has none. You feel guilty for being successful. You vote people into office who tax your cows, forcing you to sell one to raise money to pay the tax. The people you voted for then take the tax money and buy a cow and give it to your neighbor. You feel righteous.

    Communist: You have two cows. The government seizes both and provides you with a cup of milk a day.

    Republican: You have two cows. You sell one, buy a bull and build a herd of cows.

    Life is not always fair!

  181. Rabbit, you’ve got the same problem I do that I had to correct. Guaranteed – you played baseball and that is the problem.

    A baseball swing is far different than a golf swing. When I first took the game up, I would hit the ball about 300 ft up, about 150yds long, with the most wicked slice you’ve ever seen. I once topped a ball with so much backspin, it literally rolled back past up at the tee box. 😆 I about walked off the course – my friends were ragging me silly.

    I would take about a 30 degree aim left just to keep it on the fairway. And I swung from the heels, practically leaving my lumbar vertebrae on the tee box (just like slow pitch softball).

    My former brother-in-law has won several corporate long driving contests – he’s a moose like you, about 6’7″ 265 with hands that make mine look like a little girl. He’d be a scratch golfer if he could putt. Once I figured it out, I was outdriving his big ass – when I hit it straight. He’d still beat me a stroke a hole. But he had also played his entire life. However, he never drove a Par 4 like I did, or hit a sand wedge into a Par Five Hole. And that’s the only damn reason I played as long as I did, because besides putting I wasn’t worth a flip. I only broke 90 once, and that was with a mulligan on the first hole. But I could hit a driver a long way.

    I once played with an 85 year old woman who I could literally drive twice as far with me hitting off the blue tees and her off the women’s tees. I’d look back after the first shot and she was a football field behind me. However, her little 125 yd. drive was the same every stinking time. She beat me so badly, I apologized to her on the 18th green for wasting her round. She giggled and gave me a kiss on the cheek, told me I was “cute”, and said something about she hadn’t laughed that hard in a long time. 😈

    Do this. Go to a driving range. And do one thing. Pull out a wood and when you swing, think about nothing but touching your shoulder to your chin – that makes you extend the club like a hockey stick. And it will feel awkward as can be. But after a while and if you play enough, you can teach yourself to make your stroke look like a mirror image of your backswing.

    I cringe to think how far a guy like you could drive if you ever connected with the right swing.

  182. “Were you surprised too? What did you see that the tv audience didn’t see?”

    I’ve learned not to be surprised by NASCAR races. There’s just no way to predict what is going to happen at any given time, especially with restarts.

    I don’t know that we saw anything you didn’t.You probably saw what we didn’t. I still have no idea what made that guy spin out at the end. We were at the end of the grandstands coming out of turn 4, so that happened quite a ways away from us. What we got that the TV audience missed was the roar of 40+ engines, the rush of wind as they race by, and the smell of burning rubber and fuel.

    We went to see Gordon 1 last time.

  183. Golf is actually a fun game to play, but I found so few of us actually have the time to practice, it’s difficult to get marginally good.

    I actually took lessons back in the day. Had an instructor cut a wood, an iron and a putter down to size to match my diminutive height. With physical limitations I could not drive for shit. I couldn’t use that excuse on the green but my putting sucked too. 😆

    But I think one reason I like to watch golf is that I can do it poorly. I have trouble getting into sports I cannot do (99% of them).

  184. One other thing about golf: otherwise nice people can become real pricks on the course. I made the huge mistake of going out with able bodied co-workers to the local course one day and they did not hide their disdain for my inability to keep up. The game has a pace (despite how slow it appears on TV) and if you can’t keep up (like 6 or more strokes to get on the green) you will not be liked.

    The funny thing was the woman who was with us was more disgusted at their behavior than I was. Still, it was the last time I went out golfing with anyone.

    And yes, folks it was better that my competitors were honest rather than condescend to me or show pity. Still, it did hurt my feefees.

  185. Rabbit even though the film you posted reminded me of the home movies my dad used to make, I found it rather nightmarish. The quick cuts were disorienting and the music was awful. It was anything but comforting or nostalgic.

  186. Ok I’m putting this to a vote. Should I try to rid myself of my jinx reputation and watch Duke vs Gonzaga or let Duke kick ass without my interference? Remember, two games in a row my team was leading when I turned the game on, only to lose as I was watching.

    If Duke loses today, my bracket is done and gone. If they win, I still have a chance to beat my wife.

  187. 😆 Gawd, you’re even getting superstitious like a real sports fan. How does your watching or not affect their ability to win or lose? Watch with a positive attitude! 😉

  188. Poolman, for once you’re talking sense. Putting aside the jinx factor, it’s also so disappointing to sit helpless while your team blows it. I had no dog in Michigan vs Louisville so I actually enjoyed watching the end of that game. Michigan wins in overtime.

    Last night I asked my wife it was actually possible to foul if you were on offense. She said yes and sure enough, Louisville did it twice giving Michigan free throws. Personally, knowing nothing, I find that inexcusable. Focus on scoring and let the guys defending the basket do the fouling. But what do I know?

  189. THE JINX IS OVER!!!!

    Watched the entire game and Duke wins by 14. I’m still in it. This was my wife’s final game in the tourney as she has Duke going to final four but losing. If Duke can just beat Michigan I win the Lawson bracket contest. Shame I didn’t make an actual wager. Then again, I shouldn’t count my chickens yet.

  190. Sometimes, my father and I watched auto races at the county fair. Things seemed to happen at the other end of the track.

    It would be interesting to watch the pit crews in action and see what they are doing between pit stops.

    I hope Jeff Gordon wins at least another race. Mark Martin is older of course, but I miss him.

    Now, I am waiting for the music awards. Ella Henderson’s Ghost should at least be mentioned. She has been compared to Adele. The lead singer of One Republic co-wrote Ghost with her and wrote another song for Adele.

  191. I still like rabbit’s link. It was dark to me too, and I liked it. It must be my Nordic blood.

    I also liked the Jon Stewart video. He is right. Arab fighters say America is losing credibility and good will at the expense of Iran. We let the ISIS fighters invade Iraq and our only response was to send out a few bombers. Troops on the ground control populations and influence political control, not air planes flying overhead. Two Arab fighters who were interviewed said the same thing. They know more than our hapless president.

  192. I especially like Muffy’s links. I spent over twenty minutes looking at ancient home movies

    This isn’t an old home movie. It is a Ch. 7 report on the flood three years ago. Our son -in law works at the station, and I am one of their weather watchers, so this is almost like a family home movie to me.

  193. Watching this storm was like being in the movie “Twister. ” One could read a book with the lightning. The storm didn’t drop any tornadoes on our farm, but we did have a spectacular light show and wind.

  194. LOL Alfie I earn the sofa on all sorts of other issues. The bracket is the least of my worries.

    I have a joke with my wife that I just start each day by saying “I’m sorry” to cover me for whatever fuckup I’m inevitably going to do that day. 🙂

  195. I’m having my house painted – the second story as I painted the lower half to save money cheap, picky bastard that I am, and a young guy who actually works for the local paint company (the company that created Latex paint) is painting it. He’s actually pretty good, 26 and nice looking “kid” who doesn’t mind hanging off a 30″ extension ladder holding a sprayer.

    I’m sitting there sanding my deck I built and he walks around the corner asking if he can “borrow” a throw away rag. I asked, “What’s wrong, spill something?”

    “No, the ladder caught my arm on the way down and I bled on your driveway. I’m sorry.”

    I take a look at his forearm and there’s about a four inch gash, gaped about 1/2 an inch – you can see adipose (fat). It’s that deep.

    “I think I can finish up.”

    “Let me see it.”

    “It’s not much.”

    “Not much being about 10 stitches! Let me help you move everything and clean up, let me temporarily bandage and clean that, and you get to a minor emergency.”

    “Ah, I can probably stitch it myself – I’ve never had stitches.”

    😆

    I like this young man. He’s newly married, came from nothing, and never lived in a house – single mother, trailer homes. Just bought his first house and he’s a go getter. He’ll clear $2,000 from me for four days work and says he is booked through the summer, on top of his full-time job at the paint company. Don’t meet many young adults like him these days. I hope he makes millions. If Anthony is representative of the young these days, the country is in better shape than I thought.

  196. Preemptive apologizes. I like that. Yes, Tex. My wife and I know some young people like that. Some of them are immigrants.

    . Olly Murs a British singer-song writer and Demo Lovato, a former child actor on Barney and Friends, perform a song called “Up”

    “I drew a broken heart, right on your window pane. Waited for your reply…I know the hurt won’t pass. Just tell me its not the end of the line.I never meant to break your heart, Now I let this plane go down. I want to turn the clock back right back to where it was.I never meant to break your heart. Now, I wont let this plane go down…I’ll do what it takes to make this fly.”

    Shortly before Ted Kennedy and Mary jo went of the bridge, Credence Clearwater Convention released “Bad Moon Rising” That song raised some eyebrows.

  197. A painter without a rag? 😯 Something tells me ‘Anthony’ isn’t licensed, bonded, or insured. Probably a good thing for you Tex he didn’t hurt himself worse than he did.

  198. Rutherford, I ran across this video the other day and thought about you. Since the topic often is brought up here and you always have questions, I present this video that expresses better than I can my feelings about Jesus vs religion.

  199. “Probably a good thing for you Tex he didn’t hurt himself worse than he did.”

    Poolman, you are probably right one that one. Then again….home insurance covers it.

  200. Something tells me ‘Anthony’ isn’t licensed, bonded, or insured. Probably a good thing for you Tex he didn’t hurt himself worse than he did.

    Did I not mention Anthony works for a Fortune 600 that invented latex paint? He’s not only insured, it’s better than Obamacare. 🙂

  201. Poolman is right – I’ve morphed into Charlie Brown, Tigre. Actually, I ran across this website about what would cartoon characters look like in real life and thought this one was “cute.”

    Charlie Brown and Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer were my favorite when I was a kid…

  202. If that’s Charlie in real life, it looks to me like he’s been seeing Michael Jackson’s plastic surgeon.

  203. Tex, he may work for a Fortune 600 club but that doesn’t mean he’s bonded/insured to work on your house. Hope you have good homeowners insurance. I use a guy who is an electrician/plumber to work on my roof and cross my fingers the whole time he is up there.

    ET, Charlie Brown morphed into ET (you know the other ET 😉

  204. Yes, Rutherford, Revival. I considered changing it, but things were going on and I thought “Nah. No one will even read it.” Wrong.

  205. Charlie Brown and Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer were my favorite when I was a kid…

    Good God man, how did we turn out so different when we were so alike as kids?

    LOL Tex probably would have been my best bud in elementary school.

  206. <

    blockquote>Tex, he may work for a Fortune 600 club but that doesn’t mean he’s bonded/insured to work on your house.

    <

    blockquote>

    He’s insured, but not bonded. At least I don’t think he is. I didn’t even ask. He’s just a professional who does this stuff on the side. I am sure he’s not licensed – but to me the more one’s licensed, generally the shittier the work – i.e, the licensed electricians work I got to recently redo. 🙂

  207. I think you’re confusing licensed with union, Tex. I am not up on what Oklahoma requires, but out here in AZ you definitely want a licensed contractor. Licensed denotes professional out here.

  208. Licensed denotes professional out here.

    I’ve confused nothing. I am sure according to the definition of the legalities of the fine State of Arizona, it considers you a “professional.” I would not. 😈 You don’t even rank “rank amateur” in my book – just village idiot assistant.

    Or do they have a license for thievery, bohunkery and quackdom? In those, you are the consummate professional, Poolman

  209. Tex old man, money talks and the BUSINESS sector in Indiana is troubled by this veiled anti-gay law. In fact Pence had no idea what a huge Pandora’s box he was opening.

  210. For nothing, R you still following Better Call Saul?

    I’m really enjoying it. I’m certainly no aficionado, but IMO Odenkirk and McKean are proving themselves to be good dramatic actors. McKean in particular.

  211. What is being reported of the Indiana business sector in Indiana. My sense is that this highly politicized (including the label “veiled anti-gay law”), but what and why is IN business so troubled?

  212. Re Saul, my wife and I love it but have fallen behind. We’ve got a months worth on the Tivo and will probably binge watch this weekend. I agree that the show gives Odenkirk room to stretch that he didn’t have on Breaking Bad. McKean’s character is so pathetic — practically makes Jimmy look heroic.

    In the last ep we watched we loved how Mike was street smart enough to know Jimmy wasn’t lying when everyone else thought he was.

  213. What I’m inferring from the coverage is that many IN businesses view the gay community as bigger spenders than lets say the black community and they don’t wanna appear backward or piss them off.

    But different biz’s have different motives. Apple’s CEO is gay. I don’t know if Angie of Angie’s List is gay but she’s pulled out of expanding her biz in IN. The NCAA ain’t happy either.

    The law as I see it is unnecessary grandstanding. We are at a point in commerce where these things sort themselves out naturally. Customers do business with businesses that make them feel welcome. Unless you’re in a one-horse town with only one florist, simply go to one who isn’t a homo-phobe. And if you’re a fruit in a one-horse town, move the fuck out – why would you want to live there?

    So I view the law as superfluous and out-dated. Just an opportunity for the IN legislature and Pence to keep the evangelicals voting for them.

    Now Tigre you might want to opine on a distinction that I heard tonight on Hardball. The guest said the law doesn’t change what a business can or cannot do legally but just makes what can be brought to court more burdensome for the anti-religious. Not sure I get that. Do you?

  214. Getting back to TV for a moment, I highly recommend American Crime on ABC. it will push everyone’s buttons here, lib and non-lib alike. From post-war struggles to semi-racist whites to race-baiting blacks, this show has something for everyone.

    One of my fav scenes so far involves a murder suspect telling his Muslim-convert sister how full of shit she is.

  215. Actually Rutherford people SUE businesses that make them feel uncomfortable after trying to make the business owner DO SOMETHING they (the biz owners) are uncomfortable with.
    Given the opposition to the law it seems obvious that gays can find baked goods and just let this law serve its purpose.

  216. “The guest said the law doesn’t change what a business can or cannot do legally but just makes what can be brought to court more burdensome for the anti-religious. Not sure I get that. Do you?”

    Yeah. You just need to read the (very short) law. It’s not as though it mandates discrimination. If your key demo is gay, great. You can servicing them. It doesn’t permit random discrimination. It is founded religious objection “defense” to certain business practices that can be overridden if there’s a compelling state interest. From what I see, the is much ado about nothing and has been highly, highly politicized by the left.

    As to my question to you, though, I don’t see that you answered it. Why would business be pissed? It relieves business of a potential legal burden/liability. Nothing stops IN business from conducting business with any customer, unless you think not having SF funded travel to IN and other dumb political “grandstanding” is going to have an impact.

    Angie’s list has other problems that are slowing its growth. And frankly, if you think Angie’s list is a significant factor you don’t understand scale not does it apparently understand the law. If it wants to hire or service gays, what’s stopping it?

    I think you’re caught up in the hype again. Much ado about nothing. Where am I wrong?

  217. Tex old man, money talks and the BUSINESS sector in Indiana is troubled by this veiled anti-gay law. In fact Pence had no idea what a huge Pandora’s box he was opening.

    Bullshit. That’s what your propagandists want people to believe. It’s the Gaystapo at work – the biggest bullies this side of ISIS on the planet. Fuck ‘um.

    Indiana is the same law as the federal religious freedom law. One of your associate chump hacks got his wimpy, worthless ass handed to him last night when he foolishly went on Megyn Kelly to parrot your bullshit…great TV.

  218. Rutherford, as far as The Poolman?

    If the tool is so good, why can’t he make it without federal assistance and the church pantry swiping? 😈 Poolman doesn’t know how to pour piss out of boot with the instructions written on the heel. He’s a dunderhead and a paranoid quack – a braveheart on the internet and a fucking weasel in real life. Fat Granny material – enough said.

  219. Knowing nothing about the law and thinking like ET that it’s “much ado about nothing” out of curiosity I went looking. So who’s correct – the right or the left?

    “Indiana is the same law as the federal religious freedom law.” -Tex

    : by the Weekly Standard’s definition, there’s “nothing significant” about this law that differs from the federal one, and other state ones—except that it has been carefully written to make clear that 1) businesses can use it against 2) civil-rights suits brought by individuals. – The Atlantic

    “the Indiana statute explicitly recognizes that a for-profit corporation has “free exercise” rights matching those of individuals or churches.”- The Atlantic

    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/03/what-makes-indianas-religious-freedom-law-different/388997

  220. Spoken like a true boot pisser. Go pound sand with your ’20 pound’ sledge, Opie.

    How about you come by my pad and I”ll demonstrate my 20 pound sledge, Tool? 😛 The thought to what I could do with that, pounding your pointy head like a tent stake is orgasmic to think about. Ahhhh….Leave you buried butt up in my backyard and use the crack of your ass for a bike rack amuses me.

    A tool you’re unfamiliar with by the way, as I’ll bet you leave the heavy lifting to the momma with more chins than a Chinese phone book. I’ve let you get away with being a dick for awhile now without head slapping. Time to bring out the whack a mole tool as you pop your slithering head out of the church pantry coffers.

  221. “1) businesses can use it against 2) civil-rights suits brought by individuals.”

    Raji, this is a non sequitur. A business doesn’t “use it against” civil rights suits — it is a defense, and one that may or may not apply because its application must still conform to federal discrimination laws. I don’t think this rule makes a shit’s bit of practical difference to consumers other than the gay wedding cake purchasing crowd.

    My question to Rutherford was “how does this adversely impact business in IN generally?” I don’t see that it does. If a company chooses to cater to a crowd or customer to which it has no substantive religious objection, then it has competitive access to a different market. So, yippee gay wedding cake bakers.

    MSNBC with Mika’s dumb-fuck groaning was laugh out loud on the topic this morning. That’s how I know it has everything to do with the politics of a battleground state and the left’s usual divisive exploitation of a new category of victim, LGBTSTKAHETEFGAJSKS. This shit is getting so, so tired.

  222. So who’s correct – the right or the left?

    As Obama’s putrid performance has aptly demonstrated the seven years of famine, I would think it obvious. But…a couple of points.

    The Atlantic is an active proponent of pushing the gay agenda and has been for years. More than that, we know our courts are packed with militant leftist judges who have rammed “discrimination laws” down our throats. So here’s my question.

    Those who scream loudest for tolerance? Isn’t tolerance a two way street? If some of us Neanderthals still find the “gay lifestyle” abnormal for religious and practical natural law reasons, why should we be forced to accept what is clearly abnormal behavior as normal when our deepest convictions tell us it is wrong? I thought the 1st Amendment made it abundantly clear there is an element to that separation of Church and State than all blue-blooded libs are always bellowing about?

    Rutherford speaks about opening Pandora’s Box? Well then, if it follows that if florists, bakers, churches are going to be forced to operate in the realm of Sodom, then black businesses must also be forced to cater to the KKK and Aryan Brothers when the time calls, and Islamic grocery stores should be mandated that they carry ham and bacon.

    If conscious has now been deemed null and void, let us all get to play the game of acceptance.

  223. BTW, I didn’t read the Atlantic piece before commenting Raji. Does it tell us something other than what the plain text of the law says? It seemed pretty straight forward to me. Whether it differs from what is already on the books in other states and was enacted under Clinton, I don’t know. I was watching Better Call Saul as this all bubbled to the surface in the left-wing evening rage-a-thon. Does the Atlantic piece address whether it is an unconstitutional law?

    Will I be eating my hat that I’ve overlooked some parade of horribles by simply reading the statute without seeing it’s unjust application from those racist, sexist, dominionist, sociopaths known as Hoosiers????

    Blood on the plow indeed!!!

  224. Wait a minute. . . does this all tie to the Illuminati-style reverse mortgage hate?

    Hmmmmmm, maybe this is a Pandora’s box.

  225. Okay. I read the Atlantic piece. Sorry Raji. Uninformative and a bed wetting victimhood crapola. I suggest something that takes a real stab intellectually honest stab at the issue.

  226. Looks like Pence is waffling. Sad to have a country where a minority,fascist gays in this case, undermine our freedoms. I second ET observation that the law doesn’t discriminate. I’d say we could be having a different conversation about this law. I could see a part ofIN government hassling a kosher or halal establishment this law would protect that business

  227. I heard part of the Governor Pense new conference as I drove toward home. My first impression is that the law and its interpretation contradict themselves, but the legislature is trying to fix it. I think this is a leftist emotional reaction with minimal reliance on fact not much different from “hands up don’t shoot.”

  228. I had an interesting experience recently. Reaching old age like Rutherford and I have, I keep receiving solicitations from AARP. Finally having enough as I have no interest in joining their Leftist ideology brigade, I sent them an unsubscribe. They sent back a one question survey. Why?

    And one of the choices just happened to be “political ideology.” And that is what I clicked. And that is all I need to know that AARP is very concerned about the perception their company is beginning to carry. They, unlike the newspapers and the like, know its bad business to significantly shrink the customer base.

    Rutherford believes that this is a winning issue for his blue bloods and the Gaystapo. Really? Rutherford, do you know what the largest audience ever for a National Geographic Special is? It happened this weekend. It was called, “Killing Jesus.” Do you know what the highest rated cable series ever recorded was? Executive Producers Mark Burnett and Roma Downey produced a series called “The Bible” – its still number 1. It was so successful, they have produced a second series called AD.

    Angie wants to enter into the political fray? Super. While I am sure like Martha Stewart, she has made her millions, let her company experience the same path of newspapers, print media, AARP, Hollywood and the rest of the venal ilk. If they believe alienating about 50% of the population is good business, so be it. I welcome them snubbing me, because I in turn will snub them. And last I looked, carrying a database of opinions about quality of work doesn’t appear to have too many barriers of entry for somebody to enter into a little competition with Angie. Perhaps if a few million cancel their dues in the name of religious conviction, Big Old Ms. Angie will learn a hard lesson in economics herself. Let the games begin by all means.

    Rutherford believes this is wholly secular country. He will find he is sadly mistaken, Presidential win or not. Barack Obama has changed America – but not in the way Rutherford had hoped. About the only business on the bleeding edge of getting their butts handed to them for political ideology is technology. But that too can be overcome given time.

  229. How immoral is the party from the Left?

    “Romney didn’t win, did he?” Harry Reid said in response to Bash’s question of whether he regretted what he had said about Romney.

    Think about that logic for a minute. What Reid is saying is that it’s entirely immaterial whether what he said about Romney and his taxes was true. All that mattered was that Romney didn’t win.

  230. Thanks guys for the discussion. ET can you suggest another avenue? I am well aware of the powers that be behind The Atlantic, Tex which is why I went there after “googling”. So is the uproar solely from the LGBT advocates? I guess my only issue is any law that allows a for profit business to determine who they allow as customers. Somehow that smacks of way back when “coloreds” were not allowed to frequent white establishments.

    On the other hand I still think the law is much ado about nothing and I have to wonder who instigated this becoming a law and the real reason behind it.

  231. “ET can you suggest another avenue?”

    Nope. Google is your friend. If you don’t see it as a bias piece, I can’t help you. In fact, I’m wagering you found it from a link HuffPo, or Beast, or Kos that I know you frequent. Am I right?

    “guess my only issue is any law that allows a for profit business to determine who they allow as customers.”

    That, of course, is not the law. Read it again, slowly.

  232. “So is the uproar solely from the LGBT advocates?”

    Raji, please baby please, baby baby please, it is obviously from the liberal political class.

  233. What the fuck is it about the left and the Clintons? I was thinking about Jim and Tammy Baker and how they are no different to their ignorant followers than the damn Clintons than the damn ignorant dems. That ain’t hyperbole. No different whatsoever.

  234. Given the opposition to the law it seems obvious that gays can find baked goods and just let this law serve its purpose.

    Yup it goes both ways. The law was silly and unnecessary and gays would be better off yawning and ignoring it. Just because it was a dumb law to pass in the first place, doesn’t mean gays have to go crazy.

    For some reason, after several states doing the same thing, Indiana became a tipping point.

  235. Why would business be pissed?

    Because the left-interpreted perception of the law has a lot of bad mojo attached to it. It matters not what the law actually says. The law got bad press that can trigger boycotts and other stuff that is poison to business.

    Not for nothing but Mike Pence stumbled BADLY in his interview with George Stephanopolis. It was painful to watch the excerpt that has been on a steady loop since Sunday.

  236. Why wouldn’t they believe racism was God’s will? We white Southerners heard that message on weekends from the pulpit, on school days from our segregated schools, and every day from our governments.

    That’s from the Atlantic article. Mmmm reminds me of an argument I made weeks back that racism was blessed by the Christian church. So I guess old race baiter Tanehise Coates wasn’t the only one saying it. 😐

  237. “The law got bad press that can trigger boycotts and other stuff that is poison to business.”

    Boycott’s business? You might protest the law, but why would the law trigger a boycott of the business? That makes no sense Rutherford.

  238. I really do get a kick out of the MSNBC shit R. It’s like reading one of those female vanity magazines to see how shallow and manipulated the target audience and what drives them. I can’t believe you take that shit so seriously. MSNBC is fucking shamelessly awful.

  239. “But I have another question. If religious freedom is already addressed by federal law, why the need for ANY state law on the subject?”

    What’s the answer Rutherford? Why don’t you tell us?

  240. Again, if a business didn’t want to be boycotted, it wouldn’t accept the protections of the law. Pandora? Tell me how this goes in your mind. Hobby Lobby, Chik-fil-A etc. got boycotted in making a conscious decision as to what they wanted to express and conduct themselves based on religious grounds.

  241. why should we be forced to accept what is clearly abnormal behavior as normal

    LOL You’re selling a fucking cake for goodness sake. Now if the customers want ass-fucking figurines on their cake maybe you (and a lot of non-Christians for that matter) have a leg to stand on. Otherwise it’s a goddam cake.

    As for Amos selling his goods to guys in white hoods, why not? As long as KKK guy doesn’t want to burn the place down, the money is green. Besides, your example is preposterous since a KKK member would never do business at a black owned establishment. Further, you’ve got your prejudices backward. The Indiana law supposedly discriminates against the consumer. Your KKK example involves a consumer who discriminates against the business, which by the way is perfectly legal. It happens every day. With the exception of Obamacare 🙂 no one in America is forced to buy a product they don’t want to buy.

  242. “reminds me of an argument made weeks back that racism was blessed by the Christian church.”

    Reminds of the religious intolerance you and your leftist ilk spout on a daily basis, the kind that attacks religious freedom to advance its progressive political agendas (a/k/a it’s religion).

    It also reminds me of how you dropped the subject when discussion of the roots of abolition were brought up. “Look out . . . there’s goes that bigot Rutherford, running for the exits. . .” 😆

  243. Uninformative and a bed wetting victimhood crapola.

    I too read it and I don’t get your gripe Tigre. At the very least the article says the Indiana law extends protections to NON-PROFIT BUSINESSES that the fed law and many state laws do not explicitly do. Is the assessment wrong?

  244. “The Indiana law supposedly discriminates against the consumer.”

    What the fuck does this mean? “The law” does no such thing.

    I guess if you repeat something enough times. . . 🙄

  245. I could see a part ofIN government hassling a kosher or halal establishment this law would protect that business.

    I got the impression the law is not about harassment from the government. It’s about harassment from consumers.

  246. Looks like Pence is waffling.

    I find it odd that Pence, an experienced pol with presidential aspirations isn’t handling this better. Maybe he doesn’t even understand the bill he signed into law?

  247. “I too read it and I don’t get your gripe Tigre.”

    Then you didn’t read it.

    Try this: why are you asking questions about the law and misstating its propositions if the article was informative?

    And you question a piece that pretends to distinguish existing laws (dem passed therefore valid) with this type of blather:

    “So—is the fuss over the Indiana law overblown?

    No.

    The statute shows every sign of having been carefully designed to put new obstacles in the path of equality; and it has been publicly sold with deceptive claims that it is “nothing new.”

    Cut the crap Rutherford. Fuck. Trying reading for understanding rather than affirmation for once.

  248. “With the exception of Obamacare 🙂 no one in America is forced to buy a product they don’t want to buy.”

    Contraception for others.

  249. Well, I have thrown out enough question marks to keep Rutherford away for a while. 😆

    If not, I can’t wait for the well-reasoned responses rather than the defending the progressive bullshit outrage express.

  250. I have to wonder who instigated this becoming a law and the real reason behind it.

    I don’t remember if it was in the Atlantic piece or in MoJo this morning but the spin is the law was instigated by alarmists who saw the religious defense defeated in other states.

  251. Raji, please baby please, baby baby please.

    LMAO Tigre channels James Brown.

    C’mon man, come clean. Are you the conservative brotha I’ve wanted on the blog for some time now?

  252. “I don’t remember if it was in the Atlantic piece or in MoJo this morning but the spin is the law was instigated by alarmists who saw the religious defense defeated in other states.”

    It’s a law that requires persecution of gays. Duh.

  253. “Are you the conservative brotha I’ve wanted on the blog for some time now?”

    Always been R. Always been. . .

  254. What the fuck is it about the left and the Clintons?

    Even I want this answer.

    But it reminds me of a poll I saw this morning that said a majority of Americans want a deal with Iran but a majority don’t trust Iran. Similarly a majority want HRC for POTUS but a substantial minority find her untrustworthy.

    So polls are bullshit. The only valid poll is the one that says a majority of Americans are ignorant idiots.

  255. Ha.

    “Apple’s Gay CEO Tim Cook Wants to Boycott Indiana for Its Allegedly Anti-Gay RFRA, But Will Gladly Sell You an iPhone At Its Boutique in Riyadh, Where They’ll Stone You to Death For Being Gay.”

    —Ace

    Maybe he should try the Starbucks approach:

  256. Boycott’s business? You might protest the law, but why would the law trigger a boycott of the business? That makes no sense Rutherford.

    Maybe you’re not keeping up with the news. CT has already defunded state travel to IN. I think CA did too. This is a boycott of the state and therefore a boycott of its businesses en masse.

  257. What’s the answer Rutherford? Why don’t you tell us?

    You act like my question was rhetorical. I was actually looking for an answer.

    If the state law is “just like” the federal one, what’s the need?

  258. “The Indiana law supposedly discriminates against the consumer.”
    What the fuck does this mean? “The law” does no such thing.
    I guess if you repeat something enough times. . . 🙄

    Tigre did you notice the word “supposedly”? I’m reporting the spin.

  259. It’s a law that requires persecution of gays

    Now, who’s being ridiculous? The opposition is entirely slippery slope based. Nothing about “required” persecution. The opposition believes there is a crack in the door through which baseless refusal of service can slip.

    Tell me Tigre. If everything is so hunky dory why is the IN legislature scrambling to clean up the law’s language?

  260. Rutherford, you and I agreed a long time ago that many Americans are too stupid and ignorant to vote. Its true progressives are “evil” but the witless fools who put them in power bear the ultimate responsibility for our misfortune.

  261. “Maybe you’re not keeping up with the news. CT has already defunded state travel to IN. I think CA did too. This is a boycott of the state and therefore a boycott of its businesses en masse.”

    Maybe YOU”RE not keeping up with the commentary, I am aware of this stupidity:

    “As to my question to you, though, I don’t see that you answered it. Why would business be pissed? It relieves business of a potential legal burden/liability. Nothing stops IN business from conducting business with any customer, unless you think not having SF funded travel to IN and other dumb political “grandstanding” is going to have an impact.” -Tigre @ 7:07 a.m.

    You think businesses give a hit about this giant loss of revenue? Seriously? Which business is reacting to this giant threat to it’s income.

    Now maybe if you said, I, Rutherford, will not spend anymore money in IN, that will show them, it could really turn the tide. 😆

    Come on man. Answer the question.

  262. “The opposition believes there is a crack in the door through which baseless refusal of service can slip.”

    READ THE FUCKING LAW YOU LAZY BASTARD!!!!

    Geeze.

  263. “Tell me Tigre. If everything is so hunky dory why is the IN legislature scrambling to clean up the law’s language?”

    To avoid political backlash and shut guys like you up. Are you able to follow your own discussion here? Why do you think? Please explain.

  264. “You act like my question was rhetorical. I was actually looking for an answer.”

    No, I want you to think, especially since it has been addressed in the past. Just move the discussion along rather than deflecting with question after question, the answers to which you disregard or feign confusion to anyway.

    I gave you a link to get you started. Now, perhaps you can see what was said by the ones the enacted the law. You claim Snufflufagous laid down a shaming. Did you listen for the explanation? Sheesh.

  265. “The opposition is entirely slippery slope based. Nothing about “required” persecution. The opposition believes there is a crack in the door through which baseless refusal of service can slip.”

    The opposition is preying on drones like you to keep saying this.

    So, did it occur to you that the the proponents claim slippery slopes with regard to religious freedoms and even have examples with which to go by?

    Oh yeah. You’re bigoted when it comes to religion. You don’t see it.

  266. “Money talks and the BUSINESS sector in Indiana is troubled by this veiled anti-gay law.”

    Again, tell us what is so troubling to IN businesses that can provide free same-sex menages wedding cakes, photos, and lap dances to gays if it wants to. The ones that don’t are all a twitter? My ass.

  267. This article adds a new wrinkle. Perhaps it is the ABSENCE of laws protecting gays in IN that makes the new RFRA law troublesome. Other states that have RFRA legislation also have legislation protecting gays. At least that’s what I gleaned from this article.

    http://politi.co/1yujEDj

  268. Tigre why is the “why” so important to you? I’ve only guessed at the why. You’d have to go ask NCAA, Angie’s List and Salesforce to get your answer. They are all “concerned”.

  269. To avoid political backlash and shut guys like you up. Are you able to follow your own discussion here? Why do you think? Please explain.

    There’d be no backlash if the law was unambiguous in the first place.

    I’ll go read the law and apply my keen legal mind to it. 🙂

  270. So Tigre, I read your NR piece. I gather the only real “need” for the law was to specify that the government need not be involved for the RFRA defense to be used, i.e. it can be between two private parties.

    But the article also states that the Fed law CAN be interpreted that same way. Therefore to my mind the IN law is unnecessary and is solely for conservative political grandstanding.

  271. My understanding is that Indiana’s law while similar to federal and 30 other states’ law doesn’t have a specific legal restriction on discrimination against minorities like homosexuals. Thus, religious freedom could be used to exclude gays from hotels, restaurants etc. under the guise of religious freedom.

    If this is the case, the law could be fixed easily. The hyprocracy will be harder to fix.
    It is silly for the news media to pay so much attention to this to the exclusion of Iranian nuclear negotiations and Hillary’s latest revelations.

  272. Sec. 11. This chapter is not intended to, and shall not be construed or interpreted to, create a claim or private cause of action against any private employer by any applicant, employee, or former employee.

    I’m confused why this was put in the bill. Help please.

  273. “Tigre why is the “why” so important to you? I’ve only guessed at the why. You’d have to go ask NCAA, Angie’s List and Salesforce to get your answer. They are all “concerned”.”

    Oh. Sorry. You were making a point about nothing again. More evolving narrative. 🙄

    From your own article:

    “The CEOs of Yelp and Salesforce said they would scale back investments in Indiana, and Apple CEO Tim Cook excoriated the new law in an op-ed for The Washington Post. San Francisco’s mayor and Connecticut’s governor banned state-funded travel to Indiana. Even the NCAA, which is set to hold its Final Four Saturday in Indianapolis, said it would “closely examine” the law’s implication to see if it puts the organization’s inclusive values at risk.”

    These companies aren’t “troubled” nor is there a “Pandora’s box.” Their business practices are entirely voluntary and it should be glaringly obvious, even to you, that these companies are jumping on the bandwagon for image/marketing purposes. I’d be pissed if I was a shareholder, particularly of Apple, but if that’s the “statement” they want to make, so be it.

    I would think it makes more sense to trumpet that they love gays and will sell rainbow colored iPhones or whatever, but if they want to “scale back” business because they don’t agree with the law, buh-bye. It’s a choice.

    I would think I guy like you would hate the faux corporate chivalry, but then I remember the whole progressive shtick. It’s good for electric car sales too.

  274. “But the article also states that the Fed law CAN be interpreted that same way.”

    I thought that it hadn’t though. Slippery slopes. . . slippery slopes.

    Grandstanding it is. Fuck them gays!! Relgiious freedoms have nothing to do with it. I watched all that conservative grandstanding on MSNBC this morning. 😆

  275. Yup….liberals only like corporations when other cool kids like corporations. There is no real logic to it. Maybe some inane and shallow gesture. But…there is no follower like a lib.

  276. Aaaah ok Tigre now I catch your drift. The law is really no skin off their ass. They’re only griping “to make a statement”. Am I getting you? If so, I’m not sure I disagree.

    BTW, you are completely correct. The proper marketing move would be to use this law as an opportunity for businesses to say “gays, we love you!” Folks prefer outrage.

  277. Lol….I grew up down the street from a place called Omar Khayyám (googled searched spelling). It was a real life belly dancing bar for Arabs. Straight out of a Mummy movie set staring the Rock. I’m surprised the place didn’t have a loose monkey for comedic hijinks. We would ride our bikes up there and peak into the windows. Around 15 we decided it was time to go in there as reputable gentlemen. Our Lilly whites asses were kicked out in ten seconds.

  278. “Folks prefer outrage.”

    Nope. Progs prefer outrage. Regular folks prefer to be left the fuck alone. Chick-fil-A, Exhibit “A.”

    Answer me this Rutherford: Why do the bigoted, intolerant liberals believe they have a right to discriminate by denying a person the right to observe their religion and act in a manner substantially motivated by their beliefs?

  279. “Nope. Progs prefer outrage. Regular folks prefer to be left the fuck alone.”

    Perhaps my favorite retort in the history of this place.

  280. R, without looking at the legislative history, I assume the text of Para 11 simply means what it says: Indiana business can’t be sued by employees etc. for exercising their religious beliefs (as protected under the statute).

    Looks to me like it’s just inverse language and applicable to private suits. A “belt and suspenders” approach to the scope of protections afforded.

    Does that provision cause you some consternation?

  281. “Outrage defines progs”

    Oh yes it do.

    Ever wonder why they try and analogize everything to the black civil rights movement no matter how remote?

  282. R, I do want to know why you think it’s okay and should be legal to discriminate against peoples’ deeply held religious beliefs.

    Back at ya.

  283. I just looked at the text of the 1964 Civil Rights Act and it doesn’t mention discrimination based on sexual orientation. It leads one to wonder–was that an oversight, lack of foresight, or intentional?

    Personally, I’m not so sure I am trusting enough to eat something I have forced someone to prepare for me against their will.

  284. “the 1964 Civil Rights Act and it doesn’t mention discrimination based on sexual orientation.”

    There’s not a law in IN that proscribes discrimination based on sexual orientation. It’s legal to discriminate. But the progs are being moved to freak out by law that keeps people from being forced to do things against their religious beliefs.

    So easily manipulated by the political class.

  285. Does that provision cause you some consternation?

    Not particularly. It just seemed a bit of a toss-in and I didn’t quite get it.

    In other words a company can have religiously grounded policies and the employee has no recourse but to quit if he doesn’t like them?

  286. A tool you’re unfamiliar with by the way

    You’re right, I am not familiar with your 20 pound sledge. However, I can work up a serious belly laugh thinking about you wielding one. 😆 Take care to protect those knees, big boy!

    I carry a 16 pounder and an 8 pounder in my pickup. If it needs more persuading, I am well versed in jackhammery. 😀

  287. I guess my only issue is any law that allows a for profit business to determine who they allow as customers.

    I turn down potential customers all the time. I am busy enough to pick and choose.

  288. Hey Pools when will we get the truth about those two cross dressing loonies who got killed driving onto the NSA campus?

    What am I, the conspiracy clearinghouse? 😆 Haven’t heard of it…

  289. “have religiously grounded policies and the employee has no recourse but to quit if he doesn’t like them?”

    Not from what I read. The other statutory provisions would have to apply too (e.g. compelling state interest for another cause of action to be prohibited, substantially motivated etc.).

    Hey, did you know your enlightened former state of CT, the one that is going to wield it’s boom stick of withholding state paid travel to visit Hoosiers (lol), has a more expansive RFRA? Liberal retards.

  290. In other words a company can have religiously grounded policies and the employee has no recourse but to quit if he doesn’t like them?

    Things like this are generally made known during the hiring/interview process. If policy changes occur during the course of employment, they may or may not affect the existing personnel as some policies grandfathered.

    Take for instance my part-time church job. If I was a Muslim, I couldn’t hold the position. Discrimination? Yes, and justified.

  291. “I guess my only issue is any law that allows a for profit business to determine who they allow as customers.”

    You’re full of shit. You’re only issue is if YOU’RE not offended.

    To use a stolen example, I guess a Kosher bakery should then be required to make a Holocaust cake if asked to do so?

    Go buy your fucking cake somewhere else. Prog logic.

  292. Hey, Rutherford –

    Have you expressed your personal opinion yet on the ReThuglicans in Indiana? It’s so cool to watch people blow their own balls off, especially if they deserve it. Last word was the NCAA is threatening to move “future events” elsewhere. Angie’s list, which is headquartered in Indiana, is considering cancelling future expansion there. And then there’s Apple, the world’s largest company …

    If the hardshell “conservative” ReThuglicans would learn to read, they’d know that it was the ministers who most vehemently supported the separation of church and state when your constitution was written.

    Of course, they hide behind “religious freedom.” Feh. Pikers. Me personally, I don’t care for black people, so I want the freedom to deny them services. Don’t care much for mulattoes, so I want to be able to deny the US President service. Don’t like Indians either – I think they smell funny, so I don’t want to sell them anything in my public store. Don’t like atheists, scientologists, baristas – (Mormons don’t drink coffee, so it’s my RELIGION, you see, not my being a bigoted sonofabitch …). Rastafarians are going to hell, so I don’t want to serve them either; they violate my religious freedom.

    god, no wonder you’re an JV-atheist.

  293. That’s some deep thinking there Pfuckface. Perfect analogies.

    Any idea who first enacted the laws? Hint: liberal CT was one. Hey that’s where ESPN is headquartered.

  294. “There’s not a law in IN that proscribes discrimination based on sexual orientation.”

    Obviously, since there is now a law that allows it.

    My point was that I have seen the ’64 Act brought up in similar discussions about all of this so I figured I would have a look for myself.

    “In other words a company can have religiously grounded policies and the employee has no recourse but to quit if he doesn’t like them?”

    I believe the Supreme Court has essentially says “yes” to that one.

    What’s really funny (in a non-humorous way) is that a gay baker can’t deny his services to a Christian on the grounds he doesn’t like Christians, because the Christian is protected by the 1964 Civil Rights Act that prohibits a refusal of services based on religion. But flip those 2 around and here we are….

    If I had time to scour the past comments here, I’d be willing to bet I could find some freakout over Muslims refusing to sell alcohol to people and how it is a sign of creeping Sharia. And please, feel free to articulate how I am drawing a false equivalency, because I’m sure that I am.

  295. “Take for instance my part-time church job. If I was a Muslim, I couldn’t hold the position. Discrimination? Yes, and justified.”

    A church isn’t a company.

  296. “If I had time to scour the past comments here, I’d be willing to bet I could find some freakout over Muslims refusing to sell alcohol to people and how it is a sign of creeping Sharia. And please, feel free to articulate how I am drawing a false equivalency, because I’m sure that I am.”

    You’ve got the time.

    And you won’t find it. ‘

    Next.

  297. So, now IN has a law that permits what was already permitted Huck? Obviously?

    CT has RFRA and it does have sexual orientation discrimination laws. Oh my.

    Now IN has a law that would protect a Muslim merchants from having to food or beverage that it finds religiously offensive. Problem?

  298. “You’ve got the time.

    And you won’t find it. ”

    Actually, no I don’t.

    And seeing as we had Elric here for many months, I am fairly confident you’re mistaken. The guy had a fucking freakout over Muslim banking even though anyone can participate in it.

    “Now IN has a law that would protect a Muslim merchants from having to food or beverage that it finds religiously offensive. Problem?”

    Nope. No problem. I’m not in favor of forcing people to do things they don’t want to do–no matter how fucked up I think their reasons are for not wanting to do it. That’s what freedom of expression is all about.

    Freedom of expression is also about how people react to the ways others express themselves. So if individuals, companies, cities, states, etc want to express themselves with boycotts and divestment, there shouldn’t be any fucking crying about it.

  299. A church isn’t a company.

    If you mean a for profit, then you’re right legally. Poor example, my bad. But there’s plenty that profit from religion. Some of those teevee evangelists live high on the hog. Then there’s Vatican City. Profits from tourism, so they say. No matter.

    Laws are for the little people, don’t you know?

    Feds shouldn’t force state law regarding local commerce or small business like they have history of encroaching. Control freaks on steroids. Their one-size-fits-all approach ALWAYS leaves our asses hanging out.

  300. If the hardshell “conservative” ReThuglicans would learn to read, they’d know that it was the ministers who most vehemently supported the separation of church and state when your constitution was written.

    That’s exactly correct. It forbids Congress from both promoting one religion over others and also restricting an individual’s religious practices.

    Surely we can agree with that, Parker?

    So in a nutshell, what Governor Pence and the RETHuglicans are doing is abiding by the 1st Amendment. I’ll assume you got religion then during your sojourn, Parker?

    And I see none of you Christian bigots want to answer my very simple question? Is this demand for tolerance not a two way street? Clearly, what the Progressive Party and anti-Dominionists are demanding is not only a clear double standard in promoting their religion over another, but also dictating that people not follow their own conscience but the dictates of Caesar – as long as the bigots play Caesar.

    Any of you wish to tell me where I’m wrong?

  301. You’re right, I am not familiar with your 20 pound sledge. However, I can work up a serious belly laugh thinking about you wielding one.

    Leave it to Poolman to utilize the jackhammer and sledge with his knees. About par for the course in the trailer park, I guess.

    As I can work up a belly laugh about your ability to pick and choose. Tell me Super Man deep in the marriage of the many chins. Do you stay busy while working for free? 😈

  302. Nope ET, I found the article by putting Indiana Law + Discrimination into the google search engine and it popped up as #4. I rarely click on links from one website to another. Security reasons you know!

    Of course it was biased but aren’t they all. I’m not going to lump every thing that occurs to “The liberal political class” versus the”conservative political class”. And I guess you are saying all LGBT are liberals?

    Rutherford, thanks for the reference to Jerry Brown. I had no idea what ET was trying to say 😉

    ps I read the law (typical legal-ezze)
    https://iga.in.gov/legislative/2015/bills/senate/101#document-92bab197

  303. It is silly for the news media to pay so much attention to this to the exclusion of Iranian nuclear negotiations and Hillary’s latest revelations.”-James

    My point exactly, James. Smokescreen maybe or just another example of what sells best? GAWD! it’s much more fun reading about how a gay couple can’t use the florist they want over HRC wiping her hard drive, don’t you think?

  304. Why do the bigoted, intolerant liberals believe they have a right to discriminate by denying a person the right to observe their religion and act in a manner substantially motivated by their beliefs?”-ET

    And why do the bigoted intolerant conservatives believe…….?

  305. “And I guess you are saying all LGBT are liberals?”

    Nope. And the Atlantic piece was biased to the point of not being instructive. I assume you looked for something better that help you understand this law you find to bogged down with legaleeze. 🙄

    “And why do the bigoted intolerant conservatives believe…….?”

    Yes. You have grasped the point of the question Raji. Thanks for blowing it for me. I wanted Rutherford to answer to show that if you frame questions like this, as libs do (i.e. pretend assault on gays in IN rather than protection of religious freedom), you deify and control the narrative to boot. Look at he stupid “war on women” meme arising from the religious objection to certain types of contraception. Oh well.

    “Rutherford, thanks for the reference to Jerry Brown. I had no idea what ET was trying to say.”

    No comprendo.

    Raji, if you can’t see that the law (which ain’ long or that hard to decipher) doesn’t say, “businesses can discriminate against people at your leisure” I’m surprised you are able to find Google on the interwebs at all. Come on. There are clearly restrictions and language that conforms to Hobby Lobby (and generalized restrictions on the restraint of freedoms — even though some of you might not view observance of religion a freedom others should enjoy).

    You don’t need to be a lawyer to see what the law provides, just initiated enough to go beyond liberal dogma, particularly if you’re actually going to discuss the text and subject, AS RUTHERFORD DID before running back to ridiculous talking points divorced form the actual text.

    Now look at the challenge to the legitimacy of the “Pandora’s box” comments and state of business in Indiana. All one had to do was say, “that doesn’t make sense. Why would businesses suffer in IN under this rule?” Nope. That seems too taxing and too and too loathsome in a Socratic method way for the uninitiated.

    Oh well, again.

  306. Do you stay busy while working for free?

    Is this your brain on drugs? I don’t know how you think it is I work for free. As of today I have 7 paying projects (3 renovations and 4 new pools) in the works. I suppose given the amount of tax paid in during the course of the year one works essentially for free a good portion of the year.

    You’re the retarded retired one.

    And what’s with the chins? You make oriental joke? 😆

  307. <

    blockquote>3 renovations and 4 new pools

    <

    blockquote>

    And still suckling the hind teat and still with time to blog all day on the Rutherford Lawson blog. You’re really an amazing rube, liar, bohunk, man. 😛

  308. Hey Sledge?

    Why don’t you start restocking the church pantry then in the times of plenty? 😈 Is this saving up for the seven years of famine? Damn, you’re an easy target, mongrel. Aim in any direction.

    Besides, a digger like you would have been proud of me. Three times, I danced around the cable line while digging. I wonder if Cox Communications will be thrilled when I built my deck right over their burial and encased their line three times in Quikset? LOL

  309. ET of course I can read what the law said “DUH”. I happen to think almost ALL legal docs to be full of “legal-ezze! Way too wordy. Lawyers get paid by the hour for work produced.

    On the other hand does a gay baker who is anti-Christian or anti-Jew have the right to refuse services under this law?

    “I wanted Rutherford to answer to show that if you frame questions like this, as libs do”-ET

    Here we go again……”as conservatives do….(pretend assault)

    Your welcome ET. Always glad to help out Rutherford when I can 😉

  310. I’m apt to agree with Raji and James on this one with an additional bone thrown in for good measure concerning this phony demonstration squirrel.

    Obama’s foreign policy is visibly falling apart, so much so even the corrupt media can’t spin it in Iran, Yemen, and Syria and now has all the free world aghast at how feckless Obama including our allies; The Bergdahl incident has demonstrated not only how stupid and gullible Barack Obama really is, but how weak; Obama’s final years of defeatism are so visible both foreign and domestic, the libs are demoralized and tired of defending the indefensible. The squirrel gave them an opportunity to not only change the subject but do the one thing they do well – attack and character assassination.

    The one thing I don’t understand about people like Pence is why he would capitulate. I’d love to see the expression on Leftist faces if somebody under aim from the Gaystapo said something like, “These militant Sodomite Sickos of the Gaystapo can kiss my ass and take their threats of business elsewhere. Our great state would immediately become even greater without their diseased presence in our midst. And as to NY and CT refusing travel to XXX State. Good, because we refuse to do business with theirs and I ask that our citizens boycott NY and CT with a state much dependent upon our tourism. Screw ‘um – but not in the ass. :twisted:”

  311. I can answer my own question. No the gay baker can not refuse, because the Christian is protected by the 1964 Civil Rights Act that prohibits a refusal of services based on religion…..

  312. Raji, are you aware in these “pretend” assaults on Christians, both the florist and the baker lost their businesses rather than buckle to the demands of the militant queers? Is that your idea of a “pretend” assault?

    I don’t think you’re nearly as fair minded as you want to believe, if so.

  313. “On the other hand does a gay baker who is anti-Christian or anti-Jew have the right to refuse services under this law?”

    Nope. Even without the CRA, the statute (which you can read :wink:) does not protect the discrimination based on non religiously held beliefs. Being a homo that’s good with pastries ain’t a deeply held religious belief, at least to anyone other than OP writers at the Atlantic.

    As for the statute, the language belongs to legislators. They’re the ones that make them sport for high-paid lawyers.

    Raji, you may not deserve my ire, but there are times that discussion progress around here concerning laws, court decisions, statements etc. the text of which isn’t even read, let alone considered, before all of the dogma and talking points given weight (particularly when it comes from MSNBC which Rutherford treats as unassailable). With that said, my irascibility comes from not finding your comments/observations as objectively formulated as you would like me to believe in your comments indirectly made to me.

    Now, Jerry Brown? Still no comprendo.

  314. “I can answer my own question. No the gay baker can not refuse, because the Christian is protected by the 1964 Civil Rights Act that prohibits a refusal of services based on religion…..”

    Well, Federal Preemption would be one reason. But as I said, how would you apply the protections to a “gay baker” under a statute that you just read (DUH) that is designed to protect religiously held objection? 😆

  315. I do want to know why you think it’s okay and should be legal to discriminate against peoples’ deeply held religious beliefs.
    Back at ya.

    You know, watching Mike Pence and his mealy mouth bullshit is beginning to piss me off.

    Be honest about what the law does and stand by it instead of being a pussy. The law protects the right of a devout Christian to not cater to homosexuals, who by definition, offend his religious beliefs. If sued by said gay customer, the burden is on the plaintiff to prove that mediation is of greater interest than preservation of religious belief.

    We can dance all over the words of the law. Let’s be honest about the consequences and the “problem” the law is trying to fix.

    Pence says the law does not give license to deny service to someone for who they are. Yeah, is that what the Christian baker or florist thinks about the law?

    Have some fucking balls!!! You signed the goddammed law. Now stick by it.

  316. And there IS hypocrisy afoot. The same folks upset about Indiana think it’s ok for a deli owner to not serve neo-nazis. That frankly is bullshit. Where do we draw the line between when a merchant can and cannot refuse to serve?

    That’s why the law is bullshit. We have evolved enough as a country to let commerce sort this out.

    Huck is right. Why would I eat a cake made by someone who hates me?

    Tigre would like to paint me as super prog in this. But notice from the very beginning of the discussion I said the law is silly and unnecessary. That’s not progressive. That’s just factual.

  317. I just looked at the text of the 1964 Civil Rights Act and it doesn’t mention discrimination based on sexual orientation.

    Huck gays were faggots in 1964. It NEVER even crossed their minds to include them in civil rights legislation.

    Times have changed.

  318. There’s not a law in IN that proscribes discrimination based on sexual orientation. It’s legal to discriminate. But the progs are being moved to freak out by law that keeps people from being forced to do things against their religious beliefs.
    So easily manipulated …

    I’m beginning to question your intelligence. The reason the law raises hackles is the ABSENCE of legislation that protects gays. Are you being funny or stupid?

  319. Tex, what are you referring to? What pretend assaults on Christians? What did I miss? What florist and baker lost their business? I was responding to a comment ET made and just changed wording from Libs to conservatives ET@ 9:21 am

    ET: because the gay baker is a member of “the church of the flying spaghetti monster” and Christianity is against his religion

  320. Hey, did you know your enlightened former state of CT, the one that is going to wield it’s boom stick of withholding state paid travel to visit Hoosiers (lol), has a more expansive RFRA? Liberal retards.

    Again, CT has civil rights legislation that protects gays. Are you stoned?

  321. ET: re: Jerry Brown Whoops it’s James Brown.

    Raji, please baby please, baby baby please, it is obviously from the liberal political class.-ET @3/31 1:04

    LMAO Tigre channels James Brown. R@2:21

  322. ps I read the law (typical legal-ezze)

    LOL Raji that’s another reason the law pisses me off. Lots of sound and fury signifying nothing so everyone paints their own interpretation on it.

    And Tigre eats that shit up. I once told Tigre law school would have sharpened my mind. I take it back.

  323. Why would businesses suffer in IN under this rule?”

    Goodness gracious. You got your answer, didn’t like it, and then I told you go ask the businesses.

    You say the businesses are just posturing. I say businesses don’t want to operate in a perceived hostile environment and clearly the law has created a hostile environment.

    Why is that so hard to understand!

  324. And still suckling the hind teat and still with time to blog all day on the Rutherford Lawson blog.

    Not for nothing but have you checked the hours Tigre clocks here and he ain’t retired. It’s amazing what access a mobile phone gives you. Tigre probably blogs on his toilet breaks. Pools probably does it waiting for his crew to arrive.

    As for me, I’m on furlough from my seasonal job until late July. Currently seeking new employment.

  325. I am disappointed to see the same dispute here and in the news without an “April Fool” behind it. It is a great distraction, and the hyprocacy is instructive.

    I think this is an opening salvo for the next presidential election. We are watching the latest Republican war on gays and women. Repbulicans have to keep fighting women because there aren’t enough gays to make a difference, but discriminating against gay people will also turn a few dimly aware people against the GOP.
    It may not have been planned, but this will be another Sandra Fluke strategy and just as dishonest.

  326. are you aware in these “pretend” assaults on Christians, both the florist and the baker lost their businesses rather than buckle to the demands of the militant queers?

    Examples please?

  327. “You make oriental joke?” Of course you know that is offensive. My Korean relatives say the proper term is “Asian.” I’m going to sue you as soon as I talk to Sandra Fluke. She ought to work cheap since she lost her last election,

  328. because the gay baker is a member of “the church of the flying spaghetti monster” and Christianity is against his religion

    Interesting concept if all gays were atheist. My gay college roommate is one of the most devout men I’ve known. (And Tex responds … 3, 2, 1).

  329. “A liberal’s paradise would be a place where everybody has guaranteed employment, free comprehensive healthcare, free education, free food, free housing, free clothing, free utilities, and only law enforcement has guns. And believe it or not, such a place does indeed already exist: It’s called Prison.”

    — Circulated Email located on the Chez Tigre servers

  330. “We can dance all over the words of the law. Let’s be honest about the consequences and the “problem” the law is trying to fix.”

    So that was what Clinton, Obama and the CT General Assembly had in mind when they enacted theirs.

  331. — Circulated Email located on the Chez Tigre servers.

    I thought you wiped those servers clean by now? 🙂

    By the way, why would folks need “guaranteed employment” if everything is free?

  332. “The law protects the right of a devout Christian to not cater to homosexuals, who by definition, offend his religious beliefs.”

    No dumbass. It’s the gay marriage problem and it ain’t just Christians you bigoted fuck. You think their serving halal or Manischewitz at gay weddings? “Serving gays” isn’t the fucking formulation and it doesn’t meet the test. At least get right while you talk about the lack of balls and misstate what the protections and obligations are to server certain individuals.

    Or ask Raji who will read it to you . . . slowly. 😆

  333. So that was what Clinton, Obama and the CT General Assembly had in mind when they enacted theirs.

    Beats the shit out of me but I’m guessing the fallback of civil rights protections for gays made them comfortable in doing so.

  334. “By the way, why would folks need “guaranteed employment” if everything is free?”

    Cigs and drugs and good quality shivs.

    Don’t tell me you never served time either?

  335. IN legislature could have avoided this mess by including the protections amendment they chose NOT to include. But gotta give them credit … such an amendment would have been equivalent to “Ohhhh never mind”.

  336. “Beats the shit out of me but I’m guessing the fallback of civil rights protections for gays made them comfortable in doing so.”

    Eh, that makes no sense.

  337. IN legislature could have avoided this mess by including the protections amendment they chose NOT to include. But gotta give them credit … such an amendment would have been equivalent to “Ohhhh never mind”.

    This is what kills me. You still don’t know how the law operates or whom it was designed to protect. It’s just MSNBC all the time with you.

  338. Tigre my fine lawyerly friend, you are inferring protections to gays in the law that aren’t there. You’re right. The law is a pretty easy read and it leaves wiggle room galore for all sorts of shenanigans.

    It’s the gay marriage problem? Yes – and that is WHY the law gives tacit license to discriminate against gays.

    “Yup Sparky, gays are fine with me so long as they don’t remind me that they’re ass-fucking. And dang it! Marriage reminds me that they’re ass-fucking!”

  339. “I’m beginning to question your intelligence. The reason the law raises hackles is the ABSENCE of legislation that protects gays. Are you being funny or stupid?”

    Oh. My. God.

    It’s not possible for you or any other human being to be this stupid.

  340. “And Tigre eats that shit up. I once told Tigre law school would have sharpened my mind. I take it back.”

    Like a sponge sharpening a bowling ball.

    You wouldn’t last a day in law school. No joke.

  341. Eh, that makes no sense.

    OMFG!!! Is this some psych tactic you use in court where if you tell the person enough times “it makes no sense” they start to buy into your bizarro world?

    Every law exists in relation to other laws currently on the books. If explicit protection of a minority is already on the books, it supersedes subsequent law unless that subsequent law explicitly calls out an exception.

    In Indiana there is no precedent for legal protection of gay civil rights so this new law is not limited by any preceding law.

    In Fed, CT and most of the other 19 states with RFRA on the books there is preceding law that protects gays. What am I missing here????

  342. “I say businesses don’t want to operate in a perceived hostile environment and clearly the law has created a hostile environment.”

    Because the law is not hostile to businesses you fucking moron!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What the fuck is the matter with you?

    Mommy. . . Mommy. . . I want my Mommy. . . .

  343. You still don’t know how the law operates or whom it was designed to protect.

    You’re reading what you want to read. Your inference skills border on fantasy here.

    Now if you’re gonna counter with “only a lawyer would understand” then don’t ask me to read the damned law in the first place.

  344. “you are inferring protections to gays in the law that aren’t there.”

    Yep. It’s April Fools Day. I should’ve known.

    But assuming Rutherford doesn’t have a calendar, please tell me what “protections the gays are supposed to be receiving under religious freedoms protection act? Please tell me. And while you’re at it, tell what the test is again for its application. The one that businesses must meet in order to use it as a defense to claims of discrimination?

    Or gee, let’s try that logic in reverse for the kindergartner again: “You are inferring protections for businesses in the Civil Rights Act that aren’t there.” Does that makes sense to you, Rutherford?

    Honestly.

  345. “In Indiana there is no precedent for legal protection of gay civil rights so this new law is not limited by any preceding law.”

    Oh, I’m sorry, I guess I missed the existing IN law that protects religious freedoms. You know, the ones addressed by this law. Ones that relate to RELIGIOUS PRACTICE not mere status. God.

    The law is limited by preceding and other law, and does so by its own terms — the ones you apparently can’t read (but we know Raji can). You know, compelling state interest and least restrictive?

  346. “That cracked me up. The law is perceived to be hostile to consumers and that makes businesses nervous.”

    It’s not hostile to consumers of any business that doesn’t seek its protections. Nor is it perceived to be hostile to consumers of any business that doesn’t seek it protections.

    I do see though that facts and logic are hostile to your thought process. That comes from just repeating shit without stopping to think Rutherford. Turn off the msnbc.

  347. “You’re reading what you want to read. Your inference skills border on fantasy here.”

    Yeah. I am reading the actual text instead of those great legal minds on MSNBC, like Al Sharpton that says the law creates discrimination against blacks.

    I’m done. I can’t take the stupidity anymore Rutherford. You never cease to amaze, and you certainly didn’t in this instance.

    Like Timothy Leary trying his own recipe before distributing, you did prove your “only poll result that counts” hypothesis in spades though. If this alludes you too, you’ll have to scroll up.

  348. I think this is an opening salvo for the next presidential election. We are watching the latest Republican war on gays and women. Repbulicans have to keep fighting women because there aren’t enough gays to make a difference, but discriminating against gay people will also turn a few dimly aware people against the GOP.
    It may not have been planned, but this will be another Sandra Fluke strategy and just as dishonest.

    Excellent point, James. Harry Reid literally slandered Mitt Romney in the literal sense and was proud of that fact. Like I said yesterday – the Left has no moral compass.

  349. My gay college roommate is one of the most devout men I’ve known. (And Tex responds … 3, 2, 1).

    Is this the “married roommate” to his “husband?” 🙄 So let me get this straight. Your former roommate is “devout?” But time again, this devout student and friend ignores the authority of God both Old and New. Is that your idea of devout? Kind of social justice warrior devout?

    Like the word “tolerance” Rutherford, you libbies have a wonderful way of literally bending words to suit your objectives, in some cases redefining the word to mean exactly the opposite of its literal meaning.

    Now I responded….3,2,1.

  350. compelling state interest and least restrictive?

    Define that, big shot! What interests could possibly be so compelling that a Christian baker HAS to make a cake for a gay wedding? None. Therefore, ipso facto, gay couple is told to pound salt and they don’t have legal recourse.

    What you don’t get is … I can handle that. As I said much earlier, unless it’s a one horse town, find another baker.

    But don’t sit there and tell me the law doesn’t give the devout baker the means to discriminate. It does. Instead of doing your dance, you and Pence should say “yes it does and tough shit”.

    Tex is right. The law is too clever by half. It should say “God fearing Christians shall not be compelled to participate in any way in the immoral union of two perverts.”

    Now THAT’s a law!!!

  351. Rutherford, if both you and Huck come to the same conclusions Tigre and I do which pretty much spans the political spectrum (Parker is just demonstrating his bigotry which is about all that draws him in anymore – he knows its bullshit too), and I believe both you and Huck reach the right conclusion by the way, why are we arguing this point about much ado about nothing? 🙂 Bergdahl, wiped harddrives, Iran. That’s why. Deflection, baby. It’s all the Left can do. Obama has reconciled the progressive political to its predictable failure and divided the country in the process.

    i mean, take this Apple CEO. As that Twitter Feed pointed to this cocksucker’s rank hypocrisy about selling iPhones in Riyadh where they would hang his ass from a crane for his preference, the stench about these whining, paranoid snakes from the Left becomes all too obvious. Right? Why single out Pence? Why don’t you dig those “moderate” Muslims about their agreement with homosexuality being an abomination? Could it be votes?

    Or is it just you’re pussies? Don’t answer. Another rhetorical question.

  352. “God fearing Christians (AND MUSLIMS THAT CAN’T BE NAMED FOR SAKE OF POLITICS AND VOTES) shall not be compelled to participate in any way in the immoral union of two perverts.”

    FIFY

  353. It’s not hostile to consumers of any business that doesn’t seek its protections.

    Ahhh I forgot that you don’t believe in society. Every man is an island. “The law doesn’t effect me so I don’t give a shit.”

  354. Tex if devotion were measured by following every rule of scripture (which contradict each other btw) no man could be called devout including yourself.

  355. Ok Tex thank you for the example. It’s an odd case. She sold him flowers for years. Did she not think the flowers ended up on the dining room table while Adam and Steve made googoo eyes at each other? Why did she draw the line at the cake?

    She shouldn’t have been sued. It went way too far. Whole thing got started by gay guys bf who clearly was an asshole. On the other hand her standing on “principle” over a cake is silly.

    They all deserved each other. Shame it’s bankrupting her though. Seriously.

  356. “Define that, big shot! What interests could possibly be so compelling that a Christian baker HAS to make a cake for a gay wedding? None. Therefore, ipso facto, gay couple is told to pound salt and they don’t have legal recourse.”

    None that I know of. That’s the point. A Christian, or Jewish or Muslim or Hindu or Mormon or Buddhist etc. can’t be FORCED act contrary to substantial religious principles if they can prove that that is indeed violate their religious practices. Got that? Directly stated in the statute without “inference.” The one that is FOR THE PROTECTION RELIGIOUS FREEDOMS AND NOT GAYS’ RIGHTS TO FORCE PEOPLE TO VIOLATE THE RELIGIOUS PRINCIPLES BASED ON THE PREFERENCES OF THE GAYS.

    And guess what zipperhead. “Compelling interest and least restrictive means” are the terms applied to civil rights standards and strict scrutiny cases. And they come directly from Hobby Lobby (which you unquestionably didn’t bother with even in summary form). If you don’t like the terms, then you don’t like your racial protections based on them either. Is that what your saying dumbass? Do you have some other terms you think should replace them?

    So do you think the State has a compelling state interest in requiring emergency room doctors to treat patients that don’t share the religious views of the doctors? I do. So does everyone else in the fucking country. You got a problem with that too because of gay wedding cakes?

    Too stupid Rutherford. Like arguing with a child that wants his cookie. Pitiful.

  357. Holy shit. Rutherford didn’t know of the gay wedding photos and gay wedding cake cases? He’s arguing this all along like it was just some hypothetical?

  358. Slow down a minute Perry Mason. Are you saying racial civil rights laws are enforceable only if there isn’t a compelling case against them? If so, what would that compelling case be?

  359. Now, those are standards for state interference, just like here. And it’s not “compelling case” dumb cluck. It’s laws that infringe must have a compelling state interest — one that supersedes the protections otherwise afforded. I thought you and Raji read the statute? It’s not fucking rocket science. And, as I said, that was the terminology employed in Hobby Lobby and to which all of the RFRA’s are conformed. Jesus. This isn’t damned inference. It’s the fucking plain language of the text. It’s also the language that underlies all of the fucking civil rights protections you like rather than the religious ones that offend your bigoted sensibilities.

  360. Did she not think the flowers ended up on the dining room table while Adam and Steve made googoo eyes at each other? Why did she draw the line at the cake?

    It’s worse than that, Rutherford. She sold flowers to them but refused to do the “coronation” in the church. That is what she was sued for. Now you tell me who is the bully in this battle? Have we forgotten what happened to the Mormon Church over Prop 8 – but the black churches who were even more overwhelmingly against queers posing as married were left all alone?

    Bullies, cowards and hypocrites all in one. I’ve been telling my Christian friends, the days of playing civil should be over with – we can learn a thing or two from the Muslims and the black brothers in dealing with these assholes. Start giving them a taste of their own blood.

  361. “Bergdahl, wiped harddrives, Iran. That’s why. Deflection, baby. It’s all the Left can do. Obama has reconciled the progressive political to its predictable failure and divided the country in the process.”

    Damn straight.

    And Rutherford falls right in line with all of the indignant self-righteousness called upon, now worried those laws that won’t force people to make gay wedding cakes on religious grounds. Oh the humanity!

  362. “She sold flowers to them but refused to do the “coronation” in the church.” TeX

    I haven’t been following this stuff. How sad. Bullies is right.

  363. So I’m just gonna go ahead and say that death threats are not what I had in mind when I wrote “Freedom of expression is also about how people react to the ways others express themselves.”

  364. I’ve seen Rutherford ask this question. Sorry if it was already answered, but I came across this piece today and thought of his question.

    “If There’s a Federal RFRA, Why Do States Have to Have Them, Too?
    That’s a different Supreme Court case. In 1997, the high court held that the federal government lacked the authority to impose RFRA on the states (hurray, government of limited power!). If the states want to have RFRAs, they have to adopt them on their own. Since then, 20 states have enacted RFRAs.”

    There’s a lot of other interesting and informative stuff in there, too. And it’s probably worth a mention that the author, Gabe Malor, is gay.

  365. Ah yes. The tolerant left with its death threats against a mom and pop pizza store. Teacher arrested for inciting others to burn it down because they said they would object to catering gay wedding. Why would we ever need such a law when the liberal media is on the job? Thanks again for Ferguson. Good work. Time to move on.

    Oh. Here’s one for you Huck:

  366. Three times, I danced around the cable line while digging.

    I broke down last year and bought the tools to splice those damn cable lines. Clients get a little miffed thinking they won’t have internet/cable/phone for any period of time. More than once it’s happened late Friday afternoon and the kids are watching something important .

    If it’s down there, we find it, and sometimes it isn’t pretty. 😆

  367. Well while we are on the subject of manufactured outrage, Jon Stewart’s eventual replacement Trevor Noah is getting heat for about 9 “distasteful” tweets out of the 9000 he’s posted. People need to get a life.

    Of course one of the tweets violated rule #1 of American humor: never criticize Israel.

  368. I like it when television shows say ” we’ve had a good run thanks” . I think The Daily Show should’ve gone out that way. Instead they (Comedy Central) creates a useless spinoff and embraces the notion that an anointed carry over will still make bank.

  369. I have to disagree Alfie. As you know, Stewart was not the first host, so no real reason why he should be the last. Nightly Show is quite good and replaces a show that was itself a spinoff. Finally, so far I like Trevor Noah. I think he will bring an uncomfortable wit to the show in much the same way that John Oliver skewers America in his British accent every week.

    Not for nuthin but Oliver’s show might as well be called a spinoff too albeit on a different network.

  370. Poolman doesn’t AZ have Dig Safe?

    We do have AZ Bluestake. They identify the major utilities – at least pretty close (they say + /- 5 feet). But that doesn’t locate anything beyond the point it lands at the house. If there is irrigation, we generally tear it up.

    Many subdivisions used to be farms and we can find steel pipe, old electric lines, and occasional concrete things. Once we found the main electric service running through the back yard 5 feet from where it was supposed to be. Another time we dug up a 30″ diameter concrete pipe and accidentally punched a hole in it with the backhoe We had to get the city and the county out to decide whether it was still active as it wasn’t showing on any of their maps. They never could decide, so we patched it and moved the pool. 😀

  371. Rutherford, about digging? Keep in mind this deck is unattached to the back of my windowed in patio – approximately 10′ x 16′ with 20″ step on two sides – it’s a ground level deck without the need for railing, one ramp for my dog with hip dysplasia (not crippling yet, but planning ahead) – nothing fancy, approximately 10″ above ground at house, 14″ at the back end. Total cost? Probably somewhere between $1,300 – $1,500. I would have made it a little bigger but I can only carry 10′ boards in my old truck legally, didn’t want to mess with a center beam which would have meant more holes, and my neighbor’s trailer is out of state.

    And the whole thing was done on a whim because my big dog has turned my backyard into a mudhole. Mom likes it because “Now the dogs have somewhere to lay.” LOL. “Uh, that wasn’t exactly the purpose honey.” Try to think of my deck as being an expensive doormat. 😀

    It turned out okay but wood sucks so bad these days, even these “premium boards” I bought were substandard. No wonder builders can’t build good square homes.

    I was probably digging down about two feet for the post holes – the frost line here need not be as deep as it would say in Chicago. Gas lines, at least in OK, always run on the easement, then 90 towards the house. Those are fairly deep – knew where that was. The main to the electric is also at least 3-4′ deep and I have a pretty good idea where its placed. What I forgot about was the cable which I forced the cable company to put in conduit 10 years ago – either do it, or I walk. They did it.

    I should have called them before starting, but to be honest forgot all about it. Poolman is right – you can cause a significant amount of damage with just a sharp needle nose shovel and post hole digger. I shudder to think what heavy equipment would do to a cable line. I got lucky and just scrapped the conduit early on, would dig down about 6″ and literally got out a hand spade to dig around the line after that just to check.

    Will tell you guys this who like the DIY projects and are thinking about doing your own deck. I vastly underestimated the amount of hardware that goes into one of these things. Even my 200 sq ft deck including the steps has over 70 joist hangers, mostly for the steps, and 40 4″ galvanized lag screws. Went through 15lbs of 2 1/2″ deck screws and 100ft of permeable material to prevent vegetation growing through. You get nickel and dimed to death if you do these things right.

    And don’t do what I do for the steps. Since I used 2×8″ joists on 16″ centers, I simply divided by two and used 2×4″ for the steps – a 2×4″ can severely warp and the steps took more time than the main deck itself because of the number of post holes I had to dig to sturdy it. I didn’t want anything but the post beams themselves touching the ground – hence the 2×8″ instead of 2×10″ joists. And did I get tired of digging just to make sure the water flow still ran away from the house. That was the worst part.

    This crap about “ground rated” boards? Baloney. It was fun at first but got terribly repetitious after awhile. However, March is a beautiful month to work outdoors in OK and working keeps me out of trouble.

    This thing may float away one day. What it won’t do is crumble under an elephant’s weight.

  372. I am completely perplexed as to why a small-town pizza joint in the middle of Indiana, which will NEVER be asked to cater a gay wedding, stands up and proudly announces to the national media their absolute refusal to cater gay weddings. Immediately after which they are pelted by tomatoes and rotten fruit by the audience.

    “Meanwhile, he (Kevin O’Connor) says the threats have been serious enough that he’s closing his pizza joint … at least until the dust settles.” 

    Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2015/04/01/memories-pizza-closes-indiana-deny-service-gay-wedding/#ixzz3W9Zd4DCb

    This is truly a perfect example of what the media can distort. The end result however is everyone now knows his name, Right?!?

  373. Radio station KFAB interviewed someone about the unfortunate pizza parlor owners. A woman interviewed the couple and twisted the story into what was a lie. What this country has come to is sickening and disgusting. Harry Reid and Hillary Clinton are just two more examples. People don’t change, so today,. I’m interested in other things, including this relic of past humanity.

    Members of this Finic band haven’t changed either. They are genetically and physically almost identical to Ice Age “Cro- Magon” people. They claim to be Ice Age people.and “white American Indians.” About 8,000 remain. They will likely be gone in another two generations.

  374. “I am completely perplexed as to why a small-town pizza joint in the middle of Indiana, which will NEVER be asked to cater a gay wedding, stands up and proudly announces to the national media their absolute refusal to cater gay weddings. Immediately after which they are pelted by tomatoes and rotten fruit by the audience.”

    No such thing happened Raji.

    The pizza joint is a mom & pop that is open about their faith. To stir things up as it always does, a local TV station came into the restaurant to get the owners’ opinion about the new RFRA law and asked them if they would cater a gay wedding. They made the horrible mistake of responding truthfully to the Gestapo.

    Oh the horror.

    The pizza joint only had two Yelp reviews. After the local interview aired, the restaurant was bombarded with over 1,200 “negative and nasty” reviews that Yelp has tried to remove.

    Now we have a local lesbian HS gym teacher detained for sending out tweets asking other to joint in burning the restaurant down for its beliefs.

    It’s a troubling event and I am troubled that you didn’t look behind the story. What kind of a fucking country is it where a business owners solicited opinions draw this kind of reaction?

    And I watch liberal media outlets like MSNBC spend the entire morning defiantly misstating the law to vilify and demonize those that have the temerity not to join them in condemning it — all along totally ignorant of what it is they’re harping on. It is damned sad.

    Liberal Nazis. Shame on them, and shame on you for condemning the opinion these folks gave. Jesus. It ain’t about throwing fruit. It is about destroying their livelihoods. Give it the damn proper context.

  375. Oh, and in other unreported news, Khomeini laughs while he pisses on Obama and Kerry. Something about a non existent deadline to show how tough they are.

    And Hillary destroys evidence.

    And Yemen is ablaze.

    And Obama announces a plan to use executive orders to impose carbon emission restrictions.

    And reverse mortgagees continue. . . but not for the non-home-owning news stand attendants.

  376. And Yemen is ablaze.

    Tigre, now let’s be fair.

    Yemen is the touted Obama model for a “successful” foreign policy plan – and Dear Leader Obama has been very consistent in its implementation: claims of diplomacy led by the giants Obama, Clinton, and Kerry, followed by fire, destruction and overthrow, followed by head loppings. Yes We Can! These Are the Generation We All Waited For!

    This is how I know God is still slapping the arrogant these days. Much like the global warming lovefests of “settled science” which are invariably met with record cold temperatures and blizzard when they gather, each Obama claim of success is quickly followed by utter failure, followed by the corrupt American media trying desperately to change to the subject to “gay rights” or “war on women.”

    If it weren’t for my children and the fact thousands are suffering at the hands of the gross incompetency of Western Leadership led by the Useful Idiot Magna Cum Obama, I could actually find great humor at just how pathetic Obama and his surrounding lackeys and sycophants truly are.

  377. “The al-Qaeda-linked al-Shabab group said their gunmen were holding Christian hostages inside the complex in revenge for Nairobi’s troops fighting in Somalia.

    The gunmen divided students at the university between Muslims and non-Muslims, letting the Muslim students go, the group’s spokesman Sheikh Ali Mohamud Rage told AFP news agency by telephone.

    Rage said the armed group had targeted Kenya for its involvement African Union mission against al-Shabab in Somalia.”

    I kinda hope that aljazeera is just fearmongering and whining about pretend assaults but I also kinda doubt it.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/04/gunmen-attack-garissa-university-northern-kenya-150402041939434.html

  378. “Well while we are on the subject of manufactured outrage, Jon Stewart’s eventual replacement Trevor Noah is getting heat for about 9 “distasteful” tweets out of the 9000 he’s posted. People need to get a life.

    Of course one of the tweets violated rule #1 of American humor: never criticize Israel.”

    Hah. That’s not the #1 rule but you’re close, dawg.

    Good riddance to the Daily Show. Boring as hell and just about as cool. CC is part of the Dem party machine and they found some young and fresh court jester to make cheap and tiresome jokes that reinforce their beliefs at the expense of already marginalized people.

  379. @ Rutheford no I’m not aware of the history of the Daily Show. My views of it are based upon the perception that Stewart drove it.
    @ Muffy Al Shahbab is the same group behind the mall attack. I think they are grossly uderestimating Kenyas resolve.

  380. Good riddance to the Daily Show. Boring as hell and just about as cool. CC is part of the Dem party machine and they found some young and fresh court jester to make cheap and tiresome jokes that reinforce their beliefs at the expense of already marginalized people.

    I’ve seen some things Stewart did I thought pretty funny and clever but I tend to agree with Muffy. Most of the time when I watched a few segments of the Daily Show, I felt like it peddled soft porn/red meat to the Leftist imbeciles and Stewart played bully hiding behind the imbeciles. Colbert I found just a worm.

    Wonder if Stewart whose not a stupid man, felt like he had run his course and got out while the getting was good before it completely falls apart on Obama’s watch.

    Let’s face it. Prog politic doesn’t have a whole lot to brag about in the event of the massive failure of Obama in every government capacity and Hillary Clinton in every government and personal capacity.

    Even Stewart has got to believe these are two self-absorbed idiots that can’t find their butt cheeks with both hands. The fact either Obama or Hillary Rotten Clinton is even considered worthy of some lesser position much less President, is the clearest indicator of how intellectually lame the country has sunk – especially those under 30.

  381. @ El Tigre , April 2, 2015 at 10:25 am – ain’t it the truth.

    And the DOJ rewards Lerner for her model service and punishes Menendez as a warning to other D’s that they’d better not start growing brains OR courage.

    We are the ones we’ve been waiting for.

    Right Jesse?

  382. Tex Taylor , April 2, 2015 at 11:41 am – Looks like we’re on the same wave length. Imagine that.

    Yes Alfie, that’s them. Dare I say pure evil paid another visit to Kenya today.

  383. I am completely perplexed as to why a small-town pizza joint in the middle of Indiana, which will NEVER be asked to cater a gay wedding,

    Raji there is a time to stand on principle and a time to STFU. Mr. Pizza clearly doesn’t know the difference.

  384. And reverse mortgagees continue. . . but not for the non-home-owning news stand attendants.

    LOL More of that endearing sarcastic humor.

    Ok we’ve established you’re secretly black. Sure you aren’t gay too?

    On a completely bigoted note, one problem with this whole IN scenario is that gays can be some vindictive motherfuckers if you cross them. The situation with the florist could have been worked out but I bet the boyfriend made that impossible, looking for blood.

  385. You are so right ET and I did keep looking but posted to soon. MY BAD!

    I don’t know what you’re apologizing for. Your original point stands. They were never asked to cater a gay wedding. They never will be asked to do so and instead of telling a predatory reporter “no comment” they announced their policy (which they’ve never implemented).

    Like I said before, sometimes you just keep your mouth shut.

    Now maybe I missed something. Did they not know they were talking to a reporter? If they didn’t, then shame on the news outlet for fooling them.

  386. Much like the global warming lovefests of “settled science” which are invariably met with record cold temperatures and blizzard when they gather,

    Tex if you’re gonna comment on a topic you (and I and everyone on this board) know little about, try not to sound so ignorant.

    Extreme cold is EVIDENCE of climate change, not contradictory to it. Every time you deniers say “bah global warming, it just snowed” you sound like elementary school children.

    I’m neither a denier or supporter. I say let’s not do stuff to fuck up the planet if we can. And even then I’m a hypocrite because I don’t recycle. Too lazy. If anyone called me on it I’d have to plead guilty – not say BAH garbage is garbage.

  387. CC is part of the Dem party machine and they found some young and fresh court jester to make cheap and tiresome jokes that reinforce their beliefs at the expense of already marginalized people.

    Ohhhh boo hoo hoo, you’re marginalized? Oh how I cry for you.

    If you watched The Daily Show which you clearly don’t you’d know Jon Stewart is an equal opportunity critic of hypocrites everywhere.

    He is obviously a liberal. So what? He seldom disappoints. I didn’t like his recent interview with a Muslim reformer because he lectured her using false equivalences with Christianity. But that was a rare slip.

    Most importantly Stewart exposed how lousy our news media really is. Trevor Noah may not be able to carry the torch but I hope he can.

    Implying that you are marginalized is so fucking embarrassing I don’t know how you wrote it with a straight face.

  388. Tex I too wonder what were Stewart’s motives in leaving. The film he directed last year flopped at the box office so if he’s contemplating a directing career, he’s delusional.

    Maybe he does see the writing on the wall and doesn’t want to spend the next ten years of his life defending Hillary Clinton?

  389. We got a little problem here.

    Oh well, here’s a case where “no comment” did the poor guy no good.

    But Muffy where’s the “little problem”? No one with an ounce of sense says blacks never attack whites on purely racial grounds.

    Congrats if you think you’ve proved some point.

  390. And the DOJ rewards Lerner for her model service and punishes Menendez as a warning to other D’s that they’d better not start growing brains OR courage.

    Ahhh you’re repeating this dumb talking point.

    The investigation into Menendez started long before he was poking Obama on FP. I love how you BS conservatives defend a Dem when it suits your purposes. If Menendez was anyone else you’d be saying “there’s another corrupt Democrat”.

  391. Looks like we’re on the same wave length. Imagine that.

    Please stop the charade. You’re either the same person or you’re his sister or maybe even his wife. In which case I apologize for all my rudeness. I’d never want to be insulting to Tex’s kin. That’s where I try to draw the line.

  392. I love when Muffy gets sufficiently bored that she comes on here to play oppressed white provocateur. Then disappears into the mist again. Adds some flavor to the blog.

    Hey Muffy you voting next week for that crook Chuy Garcia?

  393. “Implying that you are marginalized is so fucking embarrassing I don’t know how you wrote it with a straight face.”

    Calm down. I wasn’t referring to myself. Or America’s Most Trusted Newscaster.

  394. “The investigation into Menendez started long before he was poking Obama on FP. I love how you BS conservatives defend a Dem when it suits your purposes. If Menendez was anyone else you’d be saying “there’s another corrupt Democrat”. “

    When the investigations started isn’t germane, nor am I defending him. I’m comparing the way this administration treats their own when their own dares to criticize.

    Mob, much?

    Among others, Alan Dershowitz has said that Lerner waived her fifth amendment rights and should be held in contempt. I kind of think he might know more about it than you.

    I think you need a nap.

  395. “Oh well, here’s a case where “no comment” did the poor guy no good.

    But Muffy where’s the “little problem”? “

    Looks like you answered your own question before you asked it.

    Got it?

  396. “Among others, Alan Dershowitz has said that Lerner waived her fifth amendment rights and should be held in contempt.”

    Nothingburger….

  397. Rutherford, my apology was for MY BAD not checking ALL sources which I usually do. Mr pizza should have said “no comment” so I agree he should have STFU but on the other hand he may be smart like a fox and knew quite well what he was doing. Right?!? I seriously don’t trust anyone’s motives anymore.

    IMO Jon Stewart saw the writing on the wall and wanted to leave in a blaze of glory. The few times I have watched his show I thought he really could smack people down in a humorous way regardless of their political leanings. Let him join the ranks of “here’s Johnny”.

  398. I’d never want to be insulting to Tex’s kin. That’s where I try to draw the line.

    An incredibly brilliant woman, the best disser on the board, and my blog love. Mrs. Muffy Taylor. I like the ring to it, but my wife wouldn’t be caught dead on this board. If some gal shows up and unleashes on my cynicism, you’ll know the real Mrs. Taylor has shown up. 🙂 She has about convinced herself the entire internet is a giant waste of time and would rather read a book – but it keeps her husband occupied and out of her hair. Therefore, it has utility.

  399. “Mr pizza should have said “no comment” so I agree he should have STFU but on the other hand he may be smart like a fox and knew quite well what he was doing. Right?!? I seriously don’t trust anyone’s motives anymore.”

    Yeah. That’s what we should expect and tolerate in the US.

    Fucking asshole pizza shop owner. How dare he?

    Rutherford, maybe you should’ve just shut the fuck up when went over the Fat Grannies blog. You said something that went against popular opinion and brought it on yourself you whiny little bitch.

    I am honestly ashamed to share this planet with the two of you.

  400. But thanks for unwittingly showing why the law is a good one.

    Best part? You probably can’t even see why.

  401. I wasn’t talking about Lerner so why should I care what Dershowitz says? Your parroted talking point suggests Obama sicced the DOJ on Menendez which logic says he did not. So it very much matters when the investigation started.

    To what mob are you referring? I haven’t seen Obama’s call for Menendez’s resignation. Have you?

  402. Looks like you answered your own question before you asked it.

    It’s a problem when anyone is attacked physically for who they are. It happens everyday. So you’ve either pointed out the obvious or there is more meaning behind your “little problem” than you care to discuss.

  403. Rutherford, maybe you should’ve just shut the fuck up when went over the Fat Grannies blog. You said something that went against popular opinion and brought it on yourself you whiny little bitch.

    Another F in logic by the legally trained.

    Did the reaction at FG upset me? Yes. Did I consider it outsized (particularly the outing part)? Yes.

    But I DID open my mouth and there were consequences. Keeping ones mouth shut does avoid consequences. Each person has to weigh the risks.

    Example: on Twitter I defended the new Daily Show host but I stopped short of defending his joke about Israel. Wasn’t worth the heat I might get.

  404. The only law that should be in place is a cap on penalties for civil rights violations. No reason why that florist’s life should have been ruined over a gay wedding.

  405. Just saw an interview with the prez of U of Oklahoma. While there is no physical resemblance he reminded me of Mr. Rogers. A very gentle decent man. I was very impressed.

  406. A very gentle decent man. I was very impressed.

    LOL. Mr. Rogers? Boren is as far from a good soul like Fred Rogers as it gets. Boren is an asshole and political hack from days gone by when Oklahoma was still blue, believe it or not. He’s President of the University because he brings in big bucks from his political cronies and connections.

  407. I hope those guys got the spinach and meat pies from those bakeries while they were there. Oh man….do I miss Dearborn sometimes.
    The most underated food town in the nation.

  408. I am honestly ashamed to share this planet with the two of you.-ET

    But your life would be so boring without us 😉

  409. “But I DID open my mouth and there were consequences. Keeping ones mouth shut does avoid consequences. Each person has to weigh the risks.”

    Wow. That’s heavy.

    Harvard?

  410. DR, the stupidity is un-fucking-believable. Rutherford and his giggling side kick are like Beavis and Butthead.

    Just like Ferguson, virtually every relevant fact other that it involve “pizza restaurant” wrong, and they belly laugh at how stupid the man’s wife was for speaking to her convictions. It’s another “hands up, don’t shoot.” These mental retards sure now how to dispense some good advice. “Better watch what you say, hahahah.” Fucking assholes.

  411. Raji. my comment was not much of a joke.”-ET
    Didn’t think it was ET but then you don’t think of yourself as being biased do you? I get the picture though, it’s your way or the highway.

  412. Tex beat me to the Gay wedding cakes at a Muslim bakery. “Its funny because its true.” Those progressives want to destroy anyone with opposing beliefs just as surely as neighbors are destroying the Russian Veps, who’s band video I posted.

    The New York Times has an article saying that Muslims will ultimately become the majority religion in the world. When that happens, will the cowards who attack what they regard as an out- dated religion and its attendant attitudes and values.risk going after the Muslims?

    Viewed in microcosm, the grannies are national progressives attacking our traditional attitudes and values I include your blog too. You are a liberal, but your loyal followers are mostly moderate to conservative. .Liberals, at least now, are also becoming a national minority though that fact is less apparent than it would be because the media and entertainment still control much of our culture.

    The rapid and generous contributions to the Pizza restaurant also illustrate the still extant resevour of traditional beliefs. Rutherford had an unpleasant experience at the fat grannies, but he didn’t stay and aggressively counter attack. I and a few others like Pfessor did for several years, and we won. It happened because we joined a few allies, and refused to back down.I liked a few of the people there. The majority tried to vote me off the site, and even the administrator defended me at one time.

    We had built such a record that when Lori threatened to take legal action against Tex for cyber bullying, I called her a fool and told her she probably didn’t have the legal standing for that. If she did, I would sue her for the same offense. That sort of “talk” ended.

    The actions are no different, except by degree than my wife’s and my intention to defend ourselves with guns and explosives if as Rutherford suggested “they” might come for us. The grannies have declined as drastically as the Russian Veps. Unless something has changed since my last visit, . Rutherford, you could own that site now, if you wanted to,

  413. “and they belly laugh at how stupid the man’s wife was for speaking to her convictions” -T

    Yup.

    Evil fascists. Over and over again.

    Thank God for the 2nd amendment. Imagine what this mob would do if there was no James out there?

  414. I read that letter this Tim Cook, Apple CEO, penned about his worries of discrimination that got so much attention because he’s Apple. It was totally, transparently, and completely disingenuous and should be roundly mocked by people of faith, especially Cook’s proclamation of a deep reverence about “religious freedom” because, because, because…he was once baptized in Baptist Church. Gag me with a spoon. Stalin was once raised in a devoutly religious home too.

    Cook is a cultural Marxist like Pfesser Parker – you either think like he thinks, believes like he believes, or you are flawed and will be marginalized. If Cook is truly worried about persecution of gay people, where is the Apple boycott of Riyadh?

    And I have far more trust of these religious bigots than I do someone playing to Jesus about His “tolerance” of gay marriage. Gang, for even the layman Christian or even someone remotely aware of Christian basics, there is something everyone should understand about Christianity that is so fundamentally obvious, so written in stone, the facts are simply undeniable.

    If you are to believe in the written record of the historical Jesus, much less the divine one, let’s knock off this nonsense about Jesus’ message was one first and foremost of “tolerance.” This is a man who clearly stated He had come not to unite but divide. This is man who defined marriage as one man and one woman while attending a wedding. If people are to believe Jesus is truly God, understand Jesus called the act of homosexuality an abomination, Jesus was there when Sodom was consumed. Jesus led Paul to declare the act of homosexuality has no part of those in heaven.

    There is no debate about where Jesus stood, or if you have faith like I do, where Jesus stands.

    What Cook is demanding by his own declaration is that religious freedom is to be limited and have no part outside the walls of a church or home if it conflicts with the “progressive mindset”, gay mindset. We will think as Cooks thinks, do as Cook says. And Cook’s idea of tolerance is greater than people of faith who actually believe the written word and it is Caesar who has the final word of conscience.

    This is fascism pure and simple. It renders the very 1st Amendment null and void. In a sense, this is the theocracy Rutherford has feared – only not what Rutherford expected. And it cannot be tolerated ask Cook demands.

    I ask once again, if these homosexuals and their supporting associates are truly looking for tolerance, why is their demand not a two-way street as Cook wants us to believe if Cook honestly believes in religious freedom?

    Exactly what harm comes from going someplace else to do business? It’s not like Christianity has a monopoly on the marriage business. The whole stinking debate for lack of a better word, is based on a lie, being used as a club to gain forced acceptance – not tolerance as these jackboots wish America to believe.

    If that makes me an unenlightened Neanderthal and fool, or a Rethuglican, you gay proponents believe as you must. In my house, it will not happen.

  415. And I do see that you have adopted Rutherford’s inability to detect irony. Enjoy your Abderian laughter.

  416. “The news just took it totally out of proportion. They lied about it. We said that we would serve anyone that walked in that door, even gays, but we would not condone a wedding. We would not cater that because it’s against our religious beliefs.”

    These people are literally in hiding and legitimately don’t feel safe, yes SAFE, opening up.

    And emasculated coward Rutherford, hiding behind a computer screen, tells them they should have shut the fuck up.

    The same guy who felt so victimized when it happened to him.

    Rutherford…..you have no idea how badly it will end for you and your friends if your constant manipulation of facts to incite violence and abuse by the mob goes too far.

    Bring. It. The. Fuck. On.

  417.  “where is the Apple boycott of Riyadh?”

    Lol….liberals having guts?

    They define cowardice and hypocrisy so massive its surreal to me.

    I’ll say it again. I hate these people.

  418. . “Better watch what you say, hahahah.” Fucking assholes.-ET

    That’s irony?!? Shake my head and shrug my shoulders and realized I have no clue of how to play this game. Yep you are right, I don’t get it and frankly don’t give a damn.

  419. That’s not the example of the irony I was talking about. But it’ll do. Maybe you should have followed your own advice when it comes to words that have consequences and STFU, right?

  420. Jesus, I litigated against the Georgia state constitutional amendments that were designed to attack Gay civil unions. And this liberal progressive BS infuriates me. I honestly can’t believe we live in a country where people preach tolerance and the sanctity of civil rights laugh at what happened at the Indiana pizzeria because the owner’s daughter didn’t answer the Gestapo’s questions properly. It disgusts me.

  421. Rutherford if STFU about your beliefs when asked is your idea of tolerance you’re doing it wrong.

    Even then, as in the case of the subway beastie boy, even STFU doesn’t satisfy a bully.

    Are you with me so far?

    “It’s a problem when anyone is attacked physically for who they are. It happens everyday. So you’ve either pointed out the obvious or there is more meaning behind your “little problem” than you care to discuss.”

    Obviously it wasn’t obvious, you obtuse buffoon. And your fixation on the racial component to the attack coupled with your failure to condemn it makes you an obtuse buffoon who is also a world class hypocrite.

    ~

    ”I wasn’t talking about Lerner so why should I care what Dershowitz says?”

    You’re mentally incontinent. I was talking about the failure to indict Lerner.

    ”Your parroted talking point suggests Obama sicced the DOJ on Menendez which logic says he did not. So it very much matters when the investigation started.”

    I suggested no such thing. I was talking about the indictment. And now I’m done talking about the indictment.

  422. When a foreigner insults Obama she insults America. To support her makes you a traitor. Plain and simple.

    Now, I seem to recall a bunch of libs getting their undies wet over a President having a couple of shoes tossed at his head, being assassinated on film, and celebrating the French sticking it to America for not supporting America during the Iraq War.

    By the way, I knew Bush a pretty good athlete (which he proved on the mound time and again vis-a-vis noodle arm and mom pants) by twice following the shoe and ducking at the last moment.

    Have you suddenly got patriotic, noodle head? 🙂

  423. Rutherford like all libs short curcuits when their covetedspecial victim status is threatened.

    Patriotism now? Ha ha ha. Black prez that finds America unexceptional suddenly embodies all that is American to Rutherford. A slight against him a slught agianst America? This is priceless.

    James, R is predictably getting this to racism again. He’s worried the assualt on religion and innocent pizza shop owners will somehow realign the victim/oppressor status.

    Muffy, if you look back at all he’s said, you’ll see that’s all it is.

  424. IRutherford worried about his coveted racial victim status results in false claims of patriotism. This is fucking priceless.

  425. I was VERY impressed by Bush’s agility during the shoe incident. And very disturbed that it took TWO shoes to get the secret service’s ass in gear.

  426. “When a foreigner insults Obama she insults America”

    But but but the world will like us when Obama replaces the cowboy…

    Obama flips off the country all the time. I’m sure he pretty much agrees with the lady if the fuck you wasn’t directed at him personally.

    It is pretty sad, though. The guy walked the Earth apologizing.

    That’s why I know he’s being punked by this Iranian deal. It might not come out right away….but I would bet the farm he is getting played. His world view is laughable.

  427. Now, I seem to recall a bunch of libs getting their undies wet over a President having a couple of shoes tossed at his head, being assassinated on film, and celebrating the French sticking it to America for not supporting America during the Iraq War.

    Since I started this blog at the end of the Bush era I honestly don’t remember how much I engaged in Bush Derangement Syndrome. I’d have to go back and read old posts.

    I did make a post I thought sympathetic about my theory that W was dyslexic. Of course you wouldn’t consider that sympathetic.

  428. The video was made around 2006 when liberals were beginning to let their fake support for our soldiers slip a little. Can you imagine our leaders giving a fig about the people in this video?

    It is awful for a foreigner to insult our leaders and citizens who support such people are traitors. You might want to rethink your logic Rutherford.

    One example is the Dixie Chicks who insulted Bush when they were in the UK. Their fans and others were outraged, but liberals praised their courage. Many became new country music fans and supported their last come back album. Then, they discarded the band.

    Your logic tells us that the Dixie Chicks committed the greater sin because they are American citizens. Their supporters are at least as treasonous as people who laughed at the anchor woman who gave Obama the finger.

    Another example is leaders like Jack Murtha, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and Hillary Clinton who actively worked for or supported the “slow bleed” to kill our and our allied soldiers in Iraq for political gain. The strategy was to oppose the surge and also to oppose bring the troops home to keep the death rate high. Jack Murtha explained the plan.

    You voted for Democrats, some of whom probably supported the Dixie Chicks or the “Slow Bleed.” Not only does that make you a traitor, but it makes you a person who supported people who wanted my niece and her husband and several of our children’s class mates where serving in Iraq at the time, dead.

    You might want to rethink your logic.

  429. James, beautiful song and moving images.

    Another example is leaders like Jack Murtha, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and Hillary Clinton who actively worked for or supported the “slow bleed” to kill our and our allied soldiers in Iraq for political gain. The strategy was to oppose the surge and also to oppose bring the troops home to keep the death rate high. Jack Murtha explained the plan.

    This however is pure conservative mythical nonsense. Anyone who believes that a large segment of our government (Democrats) WANTED more soldiers to die, is off his rocker.

    This is why there is little hope for our country right now. Partisanship has morphed into nutjobbery with both “sides” guilty.

  430. Great post, James. I once went by the moniker “Goodbye Natalie” – mocking the cowardly Natalie Maines for her courageous “Goodbye Earl” song.

    She has since been dishonored as many of these Libs will before it is over…

  431. Rutherford, if you don’t understand many on the Left were openly rooting for our American military to die to score political points, you’re still as gullible as your were seven years ago – even after the failure of Obama and the filth of the American Left now with the curtain pulled. You don’t recall many of your ilk calling our military mercenaries?

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/02/04/298124/-Arkin-Was-Right-We-Do-Have-a-Mercenary-Army-and-They-Do-Owe-Us#

  432. . https://youtu.be/K-tHfnTEMEU

    Thanks for the complements.

    The Democrats knew they had an issue as a steady number of our troops died and Iraq was falling apart, in part because Rumsfeld’s Light foot print strategy left too few of our troops to accomplish their mission. One general had earlier said we needed an overwhelming force, and he was fired, I think.

    We needed a new strategy, and it was the surge. Jack Murtha told Mother Jones and several other publications that the Democrats could stop funding the war as they did near the end of the Vietnam War, or they could make it harder for the United States to send and maintain our force in Iraq. They would squeeze our forces so the Surge and even fighting a war would be impossible.

    The Democrats didn’t care if this endangered forces already in Iraq or that the status quo would be maintained. They wouldn’t stop funding and force our troops home because it was bad public relations which would make them appear less patriotic than Republicans.They wouldn’t appropriate money to strengthen our forces, and they would limit tours of duty and place other restrictions on the deployment of reinforcements. If Republicans opposed them, they would create an issue in the next election. Republicans voting for the status quo were anti- soldier who were letting our troops die in a war Harry Reid said on the senate floor, was already lost.Deaths due to the status quo were Republicans’ fault.

    I heard Nancy Pelosi say on a Sunday talk show that if Republicans voted against the status quo and the Democratic plan they were anti- soldier. Our liberal news media underplayed the Democrats’ intentions, and they continued to dramatize our steady loss of lives with names of casualities at the end of newscasts. I don’t remember much of that after Obama became president.

    Robbin Williams was a liberal who cared for the troops. He entertained soldiers several times and used our niece in one of his shows in Afghanistan., He urged more entertainers to follow suite, but they abstained because Bush and the war were unpopular in their circles.

    This attitude has existed at least since the Vietnam War. Americans reacted to the treatment of our veterans by making anti war protests unpopular during the first Gulf War.. A writer claimed that mistreatment was all in the veterans’ imagination. They had been hoodwinked into believing their treatment was less than honorable.Therefore, anti war protests were not actions against the soldiers. Some liberals supported his book, but the general population did not, and it sank into oblivian,.

    I agree about the partisanship. It is part of life, but much of today’s problem comes from Obama and the progressives.

    Look it up if you don’t believe me. ,

  433. Rutherford –
    You need to know that your president is going to guarantee a horrible, all-out war in the Middle East.

    In an excellent NYTimes News Service article entitled, “Converting the Ayatollas,” David Brooks describes how this credulous neophyte, in the naive belief that people in charge of a country will always select pragmatism over ideology or religion, has made “stunning sacrifices” to Iran in the current nuclear negotiations: “thousands of centrifuges,” “all restrictions temporary,” “no limits on ballistic missiles,” no resolution of Iran’s weaponizing activities.” All because he thinks they are, on balance, rational people.

    They are not. They are religious nutcases, and they are following the mandates of their holy book: convert the infidels, and kill the ones who won’t convert.

    Rutherford, wars are not caused by strong men; they are caused by weak ones. And Barack Hussein Obama is a weakling – a weakling, and a naive, leftist, Polyanna. Not a bad man – just a weak and inexperienced one – not fit to be president of Guyana, let alone the world’s only remaining superpower.

    Israel is watching: steely-eyed, experienced, determined. And ready. Its very survival is at stake, and it WILL NOT GO DOWN – not alone, at least.

    And the entire fault will rest on your incompetent president’s shoulders. My god, so many deaths to come, and so very avoidable …

  434. There is currently no deal just a framework for a deal and sadly all sides can still fuck it up.
    I am shocked by the lack of appreciation for inevitability on exhibit everywhere.
    First the USA is not the sole Superpower. At a minimum it is clearly lacking superiority to the extent that the meaning of the word is changing to something the Cold War years denied an understanding of.
    Can’t it be said that regional or more likely spheric power is dawning more clearly now as it once was long ago?
    The Chinese would appear to believe it to be true although I would give them the point that they intend on becoming a true Superpower.
    The Iranians are simply changing the face of the Middle East and instead of being caught up on the past I think the West would do well to let it play out in real time. The alternative spheric power in the region is Saudi Arabia. The country that has consistently failed us and where it has supported us has likely done so against the will of its people and almost never in violation of the ultimate interests of the monarchy of the KSA.
    A “nuclear” Iran is one of those international inevitable’s that the world has a basket full of for us all. As the USA slides from sole global Superpower to THE globally involved multi-spheric power it actually is we’d do well to get it right.

  435. Good post, “Parker.”

    I have no idea what motivates Barack Obama’s incompetent path in the Middle East, whether it stupidity or naivety, but the one thing I know for sure is this is heading us toward an all out war…

  436. If there is an ‘all-out war in the Middle East’, it’s because for more than a decade we have been indiscriminately killing and bombing the indigenous there, stirring up intense hatred for the west.

    The lie (that keeps on repeating) is that the troops are out there fighting for us, when in reality they are doing the bidding of international bankers and corporates that profit from such death and destruction. Of course the troops need to be told the are doing it for us, lie that it is.. Many are coming to grips with reality and those that cannot deal with it often take their own life.

    FACT: More soldiers are lost to suicide in today’s military than in battle. That doesn’t count service veterans who take their life on average one every eighty minutes.

    These elites (who never risk their lives or the lives of their own offspring) want dominion over all and access to resources in the lands we conquer and control by force. It has been that way my entire lifetime. There have been no ‘good’ wars. There are no natural ‘boogey men’ out there, we have to make them, hype them, and prop them up. We call freedom fighters ‘terrorists’ because they fight back against our western aggression.

    So when you say, “I support the troops”, you are really supporting their individual destruction and upholding the current kleptocracy.

    In reality, we are a war-like people, a nation raised, dedicated, and indoctrinated in war-like activity. We see war as a solution rather than a gross failure of civilization.

  437. FACT: More soldiers are lost to suicide in today’s military than in battle. That doesn’t count service veterans who take their life on average one every eighty minutes.

    Study Finds No Link Between Military Suicide Rate and Deployments

    Perhaps it is not the deployments leading to the suicide? Perhaps it is millions of traitorous assholes and American hating shitheads like you Poolman that use the military as prop, not giving a damn about them or their service which is nothing but amusement for you, certainly never appreciating what these soldiers sacrifice while you implicitly call them murderers; all the while using it to blame America for all of the world’s problems because of your own massive personal failures. Because believe me – those guys fighting believed in the mission.

    You’re fucking scum, Poolman. Your Bergdahl and his flake dad without the record. If there is justice, you will die a traitor’s death – grisly and obscene. And I’ll coax my dogs to shit on your grave if I’m still around.

  438. So, today the NYTimes is an okie dokey source for you? I’m sure JAMA and the RAND corporation have no interest in maintaining the status quo. 🙄 Deployment vs stateside suicide rates? Such a superfluous distinction. How many of those that killed themselves stateside were due to knowing they were to be deployed or based on past deployments? A worthless effort in minimizing the damage of war and warmongering Let’s try to make it seem the business of war has NOTHING to do with these self-destructing types in a purely clinical manner. :facepalm:

    Deployments and the threat thereof contribute to suicide as proved many times over.

    I must have missed reading about your military service, Tex. 🙄 To believe you have any kind of understanding of what it’s like being on the inside is comical in the least. Military life was my world from birth until the age 18. I’ve had 40 years to reflect on that, as tomorrow my birthday.

    I have no massive personal failures, aside from being human. Or the constant shit you make up. I live a productive and active life, well respected and honored in my various social circles. That in spite of what this nation has morphed into. If you think it is the ‘antiwar activists’ that are the problem, then you prove to be a bigger part of the actual problem. I can smile today because one day you will know it, as in that day all will be made known.

  439. Yes, Poolman, wars do settle disputes. Most might be prevented but when diplomatic failures and misunderstandings or unbridled ambition lead to war, a nation had best be ready to fight.

    My experience shows at least two classes of anti -war protesters and social agitators. One group knows some of the issues and has a moral value supporting its demonstrations. We need people like that to temper our government’s actions and to correct injustices.

    However, the other group consists of ignorant fools who are being used as a carpenter uses a hammer. The real leaders are anti-American ideologues and opportunists who want to destroy the United States as it currently exists. They care about the majority of protesters only as long as they are useful. They are fighting a different kind of war against us now.

    Savagery has always been part of their repitour, and they believe it is becoming a more effective weapon. They attack and destroy defenseless “little people” like pizza restaurant owners. They are vulpine savages in cool clothes.

    Civilized people must defend their society as they are doing through mockery and scorn. We also need to spend money to help people the movement unjustly hurts. Suing evil doers is good too.

  440. It is a nice song, Poolman. I like the “peace maker die” lyrics.

    I’m not wishing misfortune on them, but the second group I described deserves to die if Karma chooses them to do so. The second group has contributed to millions of deaths in the past hundred years alone.

  441. James I won’t argue the FACTUAL elements of your narrative. What I object to is the prism through which you see the facts. No decent man or woman in Congress or out, Democrat or Republican WANTED more of our men to die.

    Death is a consequence of war. It was a consequence of any Democrat resistance and it was a consequence of the surge as well.

    The ONLY way to definitively prove you don’t want men to die is to not send them over there in the first place. A major piece of Rand Paul’s FP approach is that the need for war has to be dramatically compelling.

  442. Yes, Poolman, wars do settle disputes.

    I see only settlements and buried disputes. I see in my history where we were told communists were evil and now it appears they run things. Likely they did then, as communism only one head of the beast.

    The media is the source for the pizza people and every other disaster in society today. We continue to be part of the problem by participating in their fantasy. Of course they send us their clowns. We like to laugh at the clowns, casting our ugliness on them. It’s all part of the act.

  443. Alfie if you want a mature discussion of FP, sadly this is not the place to have it. I tend to agree with your prescriptions but I don’t have the FP chops to give you detailed support.

    As for many others here, they are mostly chauvinist nationalistic America-first xenophobes. That combined with their blind hatred for Obama means we are on a path to war with Iran if those in power follow their lead.

    I DO have one question for you. You say Iran is an inevitable nuclear power. Do you believe they can be trusted to be a nuclear power? Do nukes in the hands of religious fanatics make you at all nervous?

  444. We see war as a solution rather than a gross failure of civilization.

    One of the most beautiful things you’ve ever written here. So damn true. War=failure.

  445. Perhaps it is millions of traitorous assholes and American hating shitheads like you Poolman

    Pure unadulterated bullshit. The military have NEVER before enjoyed the respect they now get from the average American.

    I think Vietnam taught us not to piss on our soldiers.

  446. we were told communists were evil

    I was watching an old episode of Shark Tank last night where a budding entrepreneur talked about escaping communist China. In the next breath he said his product was manufactured overseas. I couldn’t help but wonder “manufactured where? Communist China?”

  447. “In reality, we are a war-like people species.”

    I am absolutely convinced it’s a part of our primate DNA.

  448. Hey Asshole Rutherford,

    Tell me exactly how you Leftist, phony POS respect the military again as you question everything they do? Tell you one thing, homie. You assholes aren’t fooling them. They hate your guts worse than I do. 😈

  449. Most people in Congress aren’t decent.

    I’m no huge advocate of Congress or politicians in general. But I have to ask, with sentiments like Rabbit’s, expressed similarly by many here, why do you choose to live here?

    Seriously why don’t you move to Canada? You hate our government. You (Rabbit in particular) claim to HATE a large segment of the country’s population (liberals).

    Why are you here?

  450. Tex I can tell the difference between a soldier and a general or anyone up the chain to the CiC. Just like I can tell the difference between employees and management.

    Soldiers are employees and I don’t blame them for the decisions of their bosses.

    Now give me the assholes at Abu Ghraib … that’s a different story.

  451. When Israel preemptively nukes Qom, the retaliation against it will be warranted. If we support Israel in that action, the retaliation against us will be warranted.

    A nuclear Iran isn’t the thing to fear. A pissed-off Iran is. These are guys who sent human waves of kids into clouds of poisonous gas to successfully drive back invaders. And rest assured, an invasion will be required.

    And they have allies, the same as Israel does.

    The asshole that’s going to lead the world to war isn’t the one who was elected in 2008, it’s the one that was elected in 2009.

    Who here is ready to send their sons and grandsons to go die in Iran to fight Bibi’s war? I, for one, am not.

  452. And I repeat, Tex, pissing on soldiers, especially vets, ain’t fashionable nowadays. If you think it is, you’re as out of touch as you were when you swore Mitt Romney was going to be elected. (At least, unlike Gorilla, you didn’t say it would be a landslide.)

  453. Huck, I wanna get straight where you are on this. You think Obama is a supreme asshole. Do you think he (and Kerry) are making a mistake in their negotiations with Iran?

  454. Tex you conveniently ignored a question I asked a while back. Either you didn’t see it or you can’t answer it.

    Using the logic you use on me all the time, Jews say Jesus was either a liar or lunatic. So why so much love for the Jewish people and such disdain for non-believers like me?

  455. I hope this isn’t a repeat because I can’t see it.
    I read an interesting article that put forth the premise that we’re not a world living in peace with breaks of war but it’s the other way around. I found it interesting since I’ve always felt most wars seemed to end being seeds for the next one anyway.

  456. That’s a 2-part question.

    1) I agree with Alfie, that a nuclear-armed Iran is an inevitability. If we believe that they have come close to “breakout” level, after 35 years of sanctions, why should we believe that continuing sanctions are going to change anything? If we assume Iran will keep it’s end of the deal, then at least we are getting something in return—a delay in the inevitability. Maybe when they see how things can be without sanctions, they decide to delay things further the next time this comes up.

    If they end up not keeping their end of the bargain—well, who can blame them? They’ve already been warned that America probably won’t. Those of you who defended that fucking dumb-ass letter should think about that.

    2) I have stated more than once here that the US has and should hold formal discussions with Iran on multiple topics. This idea that talking is capitulation, in and of itself, is nonsense. Iran is a sovereign nation and the mullahs have been in charge of it for 3 1/2 decades. Whether or not we recognize that–and them–and talk with them isn’t going to change that.

  457. “Why are you here?” -R

    In a way, I’m not.

    I’m a clinger. Fly over. I reluctantly live in the very outskirts of the metro area. I live in a red county. I’d be out in the country full time if I could. And I’m out there a lot as it is.

    This country is huge, brah. You’d need air support just to get me out of my hunting hideout, alone. And I’m a nerdy family man with a leased GM Traverse.

    There are millions of us. Armed to the teeth, bitch. I’m the weakest of this swath of America. I’m not talking about angry lemurs tricked by their masters and burning their own hood. I’m talking self reliant motherfuckers.

    If it ever gets so bad I have to leave, I’ll be taking motherfuckers out with me. God help you.

    So I throw it back at you. Why don’t you get the fuck out of here. You are the one that has no love for this nation and constantly treading.

  458. Here’s a 4-year-old article from Christian Science Monitor (don’t let the name fool you).

    It’s a timeline of Iran’s nuclear weapons “ambitions” since before the revolution.

    While I do believe Iran has nuclear weapon ambitions, this article a powerful rebuttal to that notion–especially when there is still not a shred of verifiable proof of such an ambition.

  459. A couple of things Rutherford,
    I don’t think Iran as a nation can be honestly defined as religious fanatics.
    I do think Iran represents an inevitable scenario regards nuclear power,although I am not sold on their weapons aspirations or abilities.
    This second one has been nagging me lately. We’re talking about a country that has made famously ridiculous public releases of an alleged fifth gen fighter that was obviously a inoperable mock up. They have a drone that looks like a rip on the V1. I get that centrifuge technology is different but I actually wonder how many are actually real. Although they domestically produced a ship they call a destroyer and the rest of world would call at best a frigate I just don’t know if weaponry including a nuke is in the cards for them.
    To your direct question of “do I trust them” ? Well I can say with all honesty that as a rule I trust no one so ….

  460. Talking with Iran isn’t going to make it a difference one way or another. War has already broken out, and it looks like we’re not going to back Israel anyway.

  461. I must have missed reading about your military service, Tex. 🙄 To believe you have any kind of understanding of what it’s like being on the inside is comical in the least. Military life was my world from birth until the age 18. I’ve had 40 years to reflect on that, as tomorrow my birthday.

    You think I’m wrong? That I have no understanding? Well, why don’t we high tail it over to the websites then with the people who are actively serving in the military at this moment? I’ll lay my vast inexperience there too. And I triple-dog dare you to place your idiocy there and we’ll see what kind of discussion you get, brick. You think I’m a ruthless savage? Heh.

    Was the father the instigator of the worthless bastard he wrought? Was he a deserter? Is that why you high tailed it into the desert? Was he a traitor and American Blamer and Hater like you, Poolman? A Bob Bergdhal look-a-like and legacy fruitcake like his son? Do you believe being a Private Bradley Manning wannabee gives you some special insight into the human conflict? From reading your insipid posts, reads to me like you ought to focus on your own backyard before you go preaching about life, “teacher.” You don’t appear to provide a very good example in the reality of this time and place.

    I have no massive personal failures, aside from being human. Or the constant shit you make up. I live a productive and active life, well respected and honored in my various social circles. That in spite of what this nation has morphed into. If you think it is the ‘antiwar activists’ that are the problem, then you prove to be a bigger part of the actual problem. I can smile today because one day you will know it, as in that day all will be made known.

    Well respected. Pffft…. LOL Was that before or after you were finding subliminal messages during Simpson reruns and seeing insect drones staring in your window? Can your neighbors relate?

    I suspect with good reason, your social life consists of adjusting the rabbit ears with the aluminum foil wrapped tightly around your dew drop head in the trailer yard, brick – one step ahead of the creditors. And the only thing you got going for you, you never fail to diss: your birthright.

    Misery loves company. That’s why you wrap your arms around the other lowlifes at Veteran’s Today and the rest of weasel sites you post – like that kook Br. Nathaniel. That’s how I picture you looking on Saturday night in your dress up garb. Known by the company you keep.

  462. “If they end up not keeping their end of the bargain—well, who can blame them? They’ve already been warned that America probably won’t. ”

    That would make sense if it wasn’t for the fact Iran has been lying about its intentions the entire time. Iran is the one that flaps the mouthes of it’s puppets and makes them talk about complete destruction of Israel. Iran is the one assinating sovereign leaders. Iran is the one with aggressive and expansionists policies.

    What if YOU guys are wrong?

    What if Iran isn’t rational (particularly if they were on the verge of being over thrown).

    And what about the Sunni states?

    I know you are smitten, but you trust these stink beards to behave like Gorby and Reagan?

    Maybe war is sensible.

    I’m not saying negotiations are bad. But we need teeth to hold Iran to the fire. Not fake red lines. That’s why the letter was sent. There is no trust in this joke of a president.

  463. “Jesus rabbit you’re a real bear during the NCAA”

    Lol. Its Michigan State. Their success eats at me.

  464. Using the logic you use on me all the time, Jews say Jesus was either a liar or lunatic. So why so much love for the Jewish people and such disdain for non-believers like me?

    You’re not simply a non-believer, Rutherford. You’re a militant secularist who makes sport. If you were to simply let bygones be bygones, that would be one thing. But you go actively seeking to insult, to marginalize, to demonize. You’re not winning anything when you do either. I’m thru trying to convince you. Die in your foolishness.

    Over the years, I have tried to explain to you time and again in detail and you’ve ignored as I have answered this question for you in some depth as it is complicated. So, you’re right. This time, I simply skipped by as I have no interest in explaining it to you anymore but to say this…

    You confuse all Jews with the State of Israel. Frankly, I have no more use for much of America’s secular Jews than I do you – I find them equally wicked and lost. The ACLU, the SPLC, George Soros, Rutherford Lawson – all one and the same to me. However, there are a certain segment of Jews I have great love for that have provided the very tenets of my faith. Apparently, you forget the first Christians were Jews. And because of that, God’s land holds a special place in my heart – as do many observant Jews who are still respectful of my faith. I share a bond with them you are not capable of understanding. They are my brothers and sisters and I will defend them, with my life if necessary.

  465. it looks like we’re not going to back Israel anyway.

    Another whopper. We do NOTHING BUT support Israel. I can’t imagine what Israel could do to lose our support. Fuck, if they bombed us we’d forgive them cos they were only aiming for anti-Semitic enclaves.

    Since Iran poses no immediate threat to us, just the fact we are negotiating with them is to protect Israel’s ass.

    Question for Alfie or Huck. Why is Iran only talking to P5+1? Who wrote the invitation list? I think Israel should be at the table instead of throwing tomatoes from the sidelines. Pure UN initiative that doesn’t include Israel?

  466. “I get that centrifuge technology is different but I actually wonder how many are actually real.”

    Now that’s an interesting point.  

  467. That should be your team. Why do you dislike them?

    The Sparty-Wolverine split is much like the Sunni Shi’a.

  468. “We do NOTHING BUT support Israel.”

    That almost beats “The military have NEVER before enjoyed the respect they now get from the average American.” Almost.

  469. Most people in Congress aren’t decent.-DR

    Finally something DR and I can agree on!

    Rutherford, at one time Congress was held in esteem. What they have morphed into obliterates that image. Today as even Ted Kennedy has stated. Congressmen spend more time on the road fund raising than they do in Congress running the government. I have noticed some of the Freshman actually trying and regardless of whether or not we believe what they stand for we need to applaud the fact that some make the effort. It is up to us as voters to insist on our state representatives to do their job.

    We are still here Rutherford because on the whole our Congress really doesn’t effect our “daily” lives. By the time we find out that our Congress has voted on some measure that will effect us the event or situation has arrived and it’s too late for us to stop the process. That is where we fail as voters. MSM should be held accountable for doing such a poor job of keeping the public informed.

    Alfie said “There is currently no deal just a framework for a deal and sadly all sides can still fuck it up.” That statement explains our FP but also explains a great deal regarding our DP (domestic policy)

  470. Well Tex, I’m an amateur on religion, not even that, but I sure don’t understand how you’re ok with folks who believe Jesus was not who he claimed to be. Maybe it’s just another of those inconsistencies inherent in religious belief.

  471. “Since Iran poses no immediate threat to us, just the fact we are negotiating with them is to protect Israel’s ass.”

    Haha. I spoke too soon.

  472. That almost beats “The military have NEVER before enjoyed the respect they now get from the average American.” Almost.

    And I notice aside from snark, you haven’t refuted either.

  473. “Military life was my world from birth until the age 18. I’ve had 40 years to reflect on that, as tomorrow my birthday.”

    Your old man couldn’t stand you. So you’ve spent the rest of your life replacing over bearing Daddy with a pretend all powerful Illuminati.

    Hold up, dummy. I didn’t say get off the couch.

    You are the most biased, spiteful hater of the militery I’ve ever had direct words with.

    Go build Bergdahl a pool, joke.

  474. Raji I’m not defending Congress. I’m just saying many here do nothing but criticize huge swaths of America and it made me wonder if they’d be happier elsewhere.

    Someone earlier said I hate America. I’ve said far fewer hateful things about our country than some here.

    And I damn sure wouldn’t cheer a Russian, of all people, giving the finger to OUR President.

  475. Those of you who defended that fucking dumb-ass letter should think about that.

    We see the world very differently, Huck. That letter may be IMO, for the first time in memory since the overthrow of the Shah, someone in America spoke a measure of truth to Iran – a weak hint that not all of America is too cowardly or too politically correct to call Persia what it has become – the face of evil. We are now 35 years overdue to taking this pack of jackals to the woodshed with terminal force. They are completely convinced America is a paper tiger. I know better if we are motivated and we are led by a strong leader.

    But it won’t happen. And the paradox of it all is that Obama’s position is not Neville Chamberlain’s position. As the link I posted the other day indicated, for all of Chamberlain’s failures, his negotiation was from a position of weakness. Right now, America’s position is a position of strength – even the domestic energy front is no longer an imminent threat. As Parker noted correctly this morning and its an opinion I feel confident history will prove me right, I am of the conviction America’s dithering is assuring millions of Americans are going to die a death that could have been avoided.

    I would have provided a list of every grievance America has with Iran in that letter – and a promise we too have a very long memory. We too can chant “Death to Iran” and the willingness to demonstrate it.

    And I would provide the religious leaders a promise that we are coming when they least expect it – in force with intent of force and no discrimination in the use of that force – the guns will be pointed first at them if the behavior of the true powers in Persia is not radically modified in the blink of an eye.

    Anything less will not be tolerated.

    This is not issue of politics. It is an issue of life and death. You ought to give strong consideration that death might be yours.

  476. Tex Taylor , April 4, 2015 at 5:49 pm

    Well done, Tex.

    Progressive Spice hasn’t the balls to take a stand on Jesus as lunatic, liar, or Savior. He’s a man of uncertainty from head to toe. He believes nothing.

    He’ll tell you why you believe but that’s all you’ll get out of him for answers.

  477. Yes, Huck, wars settle disputes and often give us the roots for the next war. I can trace some origins of the war on terror to how the Vietnam War ended. I knew someone who tracked the first treaty of Verdun to WW1.

    For most of us, the short term matters most. We fight the war and worry about the next one when it comes.

    I believe we are at perpetual war with intervals of peace, sort of like the US Era of Good feelings.

  478. “And I damn sure wouldn’t cheer a Russian, of all people, giving the finger to OUR President.” -R

    Spoken by the guy who demanded “Darth Cheney” be locked up in a dungeon.

    What utter shit.

    The entire campaign in 08 practically revolved around the liberal notion that the world rightly hated an evil American administration and if only Puff the Magical Negro replaced him middle fingers in general will be obsolete.

    We are talking about a time when a movie was made for millions of dollars about murdering Bush. Murdering him! That’s how mainstream it all was back then. Would you believe that wasn’t enough for an outraged blog post by Rutherford?

    So hard to take Rutherford seriously.

  479. Question for Alfie or Huck. Why is Iran only talking to P5+1? Who wrote the invitation list? I think Israel should be at the table instead of throwing tomatoes from the sidelines. Pure UN initiative that doesn’t include Israel?

    The 5 is the UN SECURITY COUNCIL permanent hence the P. + 1 is Germany representing the rotation crowd. The UN implemented the resolutions.
    As for Israel not really sure about your query

  480. “So it looks like Rabbit and I are both rooting for Duke.”

    I stand with you in solidarity, brother.

  481. @Alfie – I’m not sure on where to elaborate but where I agreed with you precisely was that Iran will get nukes, now or later.

    I’m an idealist to your wonk so I’m not sure you’ll be any clearer with this but a general expansion is that the power of Obama’s and Kerry’s personal diplomacy won’t bring peace to the region.

    In a sense the one thing Obama has said that I can recall isn’t an outright lie is that – though not what he intended as he meant to present a false choice – it’s “this” or war.

    Does that help?

  482. Since the Russian anchor’s giving Obama the finger still irks you Rutherford, here is an ironic song which has put our grand daughter to sleep eight times. The last one was for nap time on Thursday.

    Logic tells us that the Democrats I mentioned cared less about our soldiers’ lives than an election. Their strategy was intended to keep the war news bad and bad news required a steady flow of dead and wounded people.

    I’m sure they would never sacrifice an individual soldier, but aggregate numbers and percentages are just numbers, not real people. The Democrats may have conveniently ignored the real lives they wanted to play with, but they WERE willing to let soldiers die for political advantage. Otherwise, what was the purpose of the slow bleed?

    They did the same thing when they cut off money to South Vietnam. Democrats and the anti-war movement didn’t care as much for individual lives as they did about power. Joan Biaz observed that maybe the anti-war was too hasty in supporting the Viet Cong considering how many people were dying.

    Love of power and assets rule our world. Politicians and national leaders are still clan leaders throwing spears at one another to hold a precious hunting ground.

  483. For the most part yes,thanks for following up.
    My sports nut son has told me to root for Wisconsin. Other counsel from him has made me decide Kentucky MUST lose

  484. 11 point lead at the half. Michigan started so strong I got nervous. But the Blue Devils decided to get serious.

    All I need is a good second half and my bracket is still rockin’. If Duke loses, the tourney ends for me.

  485. Well Tex, I’m an amateur on religion, not even that, but I sure don’t understand how you’re ok with folks who believe Jesus was not who he claimed to be. Maybe it’s just another of those inconsistencies inherent in religious belief.

    Amateur doesn’t do justice. 🙂 Not who he claimed to be, or don’t know? Militantly hostile, intellectually curious, or just uninterested? If people choose not to believe, that’s one thing – that’s called free will and I honor that as a choice. What I don’t understand about you, is why you’re surprised when you belittle. Like I’ve told you before, you would do better to insult my wife than my Master.

  486. “Someone earlier said I hate America. I’ve said far fewer hateful things about our country than some here.”

    Fiddlesticks. Rabbit says he hates liberals and somehow that’s gasp anti-America while your expressed lack of gratitude for “a county steeped in racist history” such as America is, well, less far less hateful. At least the Germans repented from their sins, right? Not like the unremorseful crackers you studied from behind the tinted glass of your beamer.

    Evidently all that’s keeping you here is Carly Fiorina staying out of the next presidential race.

  487. So two things Muffy. Who exactly is Progressive Spice?

    Second, does the copy/paste function in Windows elude you? Your time and date references are a pain in the ass.

    On the off chance that Progressive Spice is me (ha ha), I have stated my theory of Jesus. I believe he was a spiritual leader and a very mortal man. I believe his life was co-opted by others after his death to create a powerful institution taking advantage of the scientifically ignorant of the time.

    I believe if he were here today he’d look at what the Church has become and he’d say “son of God? Are you kidding? You sold that story and millions have bought it for centuries? You should be ashamed of yourselves.”

    That certain enough for you, Snarky Spice?

  488. As for Israel not really sure about your query

    You basically answered it. Since Israel is not part of the P5+1, they wouldn’t get a seat at the table.

    So next question, who decides who gets to be on the Security Council? I would think with Israel’s partially justified paranoia they’d want in on it.

  489. In a sense the one thing Obama has said that I can recall isn’t an outright lie is that – though not what he intended as he meant to present a false choice – it’s “this” or war.
    Does that help?

    Hope it helps Alfie. I think you make no sense. If this or war is not a false choice than how did he present a false choice?

    Oh and you are as far from an idealist imaginable. More like an idealist burnt so many times that you’ve turned cynical.

  490. Israel is pretty much prevented from ever holding a seat via the UN rules.