Talk Amongst Yourselves

Usually whatever I post, my loyal readers pick their own topics to discuss in the comments section. So tonight with Iraq a mess, the Ukraine a scary Russian power play, Israel and Palestine in their usual state of unrest, and another gifted artist gone too soon from self destruction, I leave the topics to you.

Have at it.


200 thoughts on “Talk Amongst Yourselves

  1. Sorry gang — got too late at night and I didn’t have the time to be creative. I’m sure that won’t stop any of you from opining on whatever strikes your fancy. Best part is — despite the fact that I wrote nothing, Tigre, Rabbit and Tex will disagree with it. 🙂

  2. Rutherford – been busy the last few days – glad to see I didn’t miss anything.

    I feel your pain, though. Particularly amusing was the assertion that, in an imaginary case in an imaginary court conjured up in the fertile imagination of the imaginary opposing attorney, the imaginary judge would direct a verdict against you.

    Good argument. Guess he really got you told off, eh? Maybe he’ll wax eloquent now on the imaginary professor.

    Mayhaps your half-doctor isn’t the only one who got booted out of professional school.

  3. Pfucker right on cue. So witty. Hahah . . . cough. . .ha. . . weeze. . .yawn. 🙄

    How about a spellin’ contest? That never gets old.

  4. “The danger to America is not Barack Obama, but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their president. The problem is much deeper and far more serious than Mr. Obama, who is a mere symptom of what ails America. Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince. The Republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools, such as those who made him their president.”

    ~ From Prager Zeitung, Czech Republic, 2009

    Prescient, I would say.

  5. Alternate MSDNC headline: Plurality Of Americans Say Obama Makes Them More Likely To Vote For A Republican Become Racist…

    Headline: Poll: Plurality Of Americans Say Obama Makes Them More Likely To Vote For A Republican…

    Voters are less likely to vote for congressional Democrats because they are disappointed with how President Obama is handling his job, according to a new poll released Monday by McClatchy.

    By a 42-32 percent margin, voters say that because of the president, they’re more likely to vote for a Republican candidate this fall. And, for the first time, Republicans are winning the generic ballot measure, with voters more likely to say they’d vote for a GOP candidate by a 43-38 percent margin.

    The troubling signs for Democrats are due in no small part to the president’s dwindling approval rating. Just four in 10 say they approve of how Obama is handling his job, tying for the lowest level in three years.

    Only a third of voters say they like the president’s approach on foreign policy — the lowest marks of his presidency — and only 39 percent approve of his handling of the economy, despite steady stock market and jobs gains.

    Independents appear to be the president’s biggest problem, favoring Republicans by a 40-26 percent margin. Some 53 percent of those not affiliated to a party disapprove of the president’s job performance, while 58 percent say his handling of the economy is subpar and some 64 percent express concern over his foreign policy.

  6. In 8 days my father in law went from being an insane 62 year old to a dying 85 year old. He’s already in hospice not eating.

  7. LOL I love you James but it’s just The Platters, not the Four Platters. I grew up listening to their greatest hits cos my Dad was a fan. He used to joke that he WAS one of the Platters.

    Back before the tracheotomy wrecked my voice I used to sing “My Prayer”, “My Dream” and “Smoke Gets in Your Eyes”. I’d recommend a listen to all of you. They’re classic songs by The Platters.

    Ok full disclosure. My singing stunk before the tracheotomy but it’s even worse now.

  8. Robin Williams was a liberal, but unlike many entertainers, he did not disdain the military. He complained that so many of his fellow entertainers did not visit the troops in war time when it was such a tradition.

    Thus, Williams was entertaining during one of our nieces’ tours in Afghanistan, She attended the show which featured Williams at his manic best. Our niece looks young, and she is bubbly enough to attract attention. Her brown eyes are notable.

    Robin Williams saw our niece and asked her to come on stage. She did, and he invented a skit which kept her for at least a half hour. Williams also wrote a nice note on her tee shirt and kissed her before she rejoined the audience.

  9. You’re right Rutherford. The Omaha disk jockey played their music called them the Four Platters, and it stuck with me,I often make that mistake..

    I know Zola Taylor was mostly a back up singer, but she was hot.

    Aren’t the original singers all dead now?

  10. That’s a beautiful story James. He also did Comic Relief. The recollections I’m seeing on TV suggest he had a heart as big as his troubles.

    Clinical depression so distorts reality. We see families in Iraq and Palestine going through sheer hell and they get up every day and live through it, yet Robin Williams with all the money and privilege you could want couldn’t bear to face another day. If that doesn’t show the power of depression, what does?

  11. Yes I think they are all gone now. The tremendous lead vocalist Tony Williams died long ago. I believe one of the originals Herb Reed lived through several incarnations of the group.

    I’m not sure Zola ever got a solo but I think that’s her singing at the end of “I’m Sorry”.

  12. Thanks Rutherford.

    A high school friend and I were going to watch a dirt track auto race during the farm recession. I had talked to him the day before he went to the barn and blew himself away. He seemed to be in good spirits, but like many of us , his farm was hanging by a thread. My friend didn’t suffer from clinical depression., He faced the loss of his farm and felt he had failed the previous generations.

    Your comparison made me remember “Richard Corey”

    “And he was rich–yes richer than a king–
    and admirably schooled in every grace.
    In fine we thought that he was everything
    To make us wish that we were in his place…
    And Richard Corey one calm summer night
    went home and put a bullet in his head.”


    “Can’t help myself but count the flaws
    Claw my way out through these walls
    One temporary escape
    feel it start to permeate…
    As it withers
    Brittle it shakes
    Can you whisper
    As it crumbles and breaks
    As you shiver
    Count up all of your mistakes
    Let go before its too late.”

    Naked and the Famous “Young Blood” The video shows a suicide.

    Tony Williams’ voice was smooth. I remember Zola Taylor’s singing a solo in part of a song and thinking maybe the group was going to feature her voice more often, but I don’t remember anything else. I was about ten at the time.,

  13. Rutherford

    This band is less elequent than the poem or Simon and Garfunkel’s music, but I like it, and hope you do too.

  14. More than half of the Federal government’s 78 inspectors general (IGs) complained to Congress last week that the Administration of President Barack Obama habitually obstructs their lawful mission to conduct investigations into government waste and corruption.

    The letter, submitted to the ranking members of the House Oversight and Homeland Security Committees by 47 of the 73 Federal IGs, never mentions Obama by name, instead citing numerous examples of stonewalling from agencies whose policies are guided by the Obama Administration — including the Department of Justice and the Environmental Protection Agency.

    We have learned that the Inspectors General for the Peace Corps, the Environmental Protection Agency (in his role as Inspector General for the Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation Board) and the Department of Justice have recently faced restrictions on their access to certain records available to their agencies that were needed to perform their oversight work in critical areas. In each of these instances, we understand that lawyers in these agencies construed other statutes and law applicable to privilege in a manner that would override the express authorization contained in the IG Act. These restrictive readings of the IG Act represent potentially serious challenges to the authority of every Inspector General and our ability to conduct our work thoroughly, independently, and in a timely manner.

  15. So I’m watching statements from the defense department using words like containment and “roll them back” concerning ISIL.

    Hey how about KILL THEM? WTF is going on here? Why are we playing patty cake? My wife described to me a photo of a 7 year old boy proudly holding a severed head as his proud pappy looks on.

    Fuck the new Iraq regime. We go in there and destroy them. Folks are saying this will take years of investment. Are they kidding? We are the most powerful nation on the globe. We go in there with devastating force and it’s done.

    I don’t get it. Get braced for another 9/11. These sick bastards know no limits.

  16. Gorilla I have a serious question for you. Have we, the USA, forgotten how to wage war? We were in Iraq for years and we didn’t win. We’re still in Afghanistan and that war will also end without mission accomplished.

    Now we’ve got these ISIL savages and we seem almost afraid to stop them.

  17. Rutherford….its too late. Obama failed. ISIS has gone insurgent. We need boots on the ground and the failed administration reminds the enemy we don’t do that on a daily basis.

    Obama cared more about what people think of him then stopping the worst thing since the Nazis from ultimately attacking us.

    You are right. Another 911 is coming. And its Obama’s fault.

  18. Rutherford, have you started working with that state-sanctioned magic money making institution yet? Just curious. It will be interesting to see how the new job affects your perspective.

    We just had a nice rain shower and are supposed to get more tonight. I think our high tomorrow is only supposed to be 97. Really, it’s been a fairly pleasant summer.

    School started back up officially this week. That always sets peoples’ schedules anew. Our sport teams are doing fairly well, and that always raises morale…

  19. Rutherford don’t give ISIL more credit than they are due. Their operations in Syria and Iraq will continue but their days are numbered. They’ve attracted all the wrong attention at the wrong time in global political theater. An example would be the Somali pirates. Although they are not completely gone the international response was really remarkable. In one case an Iranian vessel and a USN ship worked together to engage a target.
    Something that will need to bear watching is the number of folks from “the civilized world” who have managed to join up wight these fuckers. The guy in the now infamous picture is actually an Australian which has served as one of many nails in the personal liberties and freedoms coffin Mr Parker will surely be on top of. All the Anglosphere nations have green lighted intelligence operations that will be watching for their nationals attempting to return from ISIL. I’m not going to get all poolie on you but there is something in this that makes one goes “oohhhh shit”

  20. Also appears HRC has walked back her earlier comments re Obamas FP. She’s looking to hug it out at a party this week.

  21. I wonder if Poolman the Pacifist has any problems with Christian genocide going right now in Syria and Iraq? They estimate over 400,000 Christians could lose their lives.

    And I don’t see a Jew one doing the killing.

    And Rutherford, nine months ago your King Obama announced this ISIS the JV team because putting on the Kobe Bryant jersey doesn’t make you Kobe Bryant.

    Their blood is on Mr. Obama’s hands. I hope you rest easy over that fact.

    P.S. – no less than Usama Bin Laden said we won in Iraq; the battle was lost.

  22. Tex, Poolman thinks ISIS is led by an Israeli spy.

    Alphy, you going with JV still? I don’t recall Somali pirates having twitter accounts with hundred thousands of fans.

    Will the land grab last? I don’t know.

    But….these guys have made Al Queda counter culture hip.

    Their online empire is the one that will last.

    We will eventually have to kill them all, house to house. Might not be in Northern Iraq….but it will happen. And its going to suck.

  23. Gorilla I have a serious question for you. Have we, the USA, forgotten how to wage war? We were in Iraq for years and we didn’t win. We’re still in Afghanistan and that war will also end without mission accomplished.

    Now we’ve got these ISIL savages and we seem almost afraid to stop them. ” – R

    No, they haven’t forgotten, but it is hard to fight with your hands tied. If you’re not allowed to engage, or is the rules for engagement are so restrictive, then you will struggle.

    Iraq is what it is today–as predicted by Romney and a whole host of others–because of the actions and decisions of the Obama Administration. These are the second and third order effects of his decisions. Now, you’re going to call that partisan rhetoric, but it isn’t, its fact. Bush had the BSA more or less negotiated with the GoI, but Obama managed to fuck that up, and was too incompetent to realize that he fucked up. Don’t believe me? His parading around after all US forces left as the “winner” of the Iraq war, taking all the credit, is a demonstrative of is incompetence and ignorance.

    Fast forward a 18 months or so, and you get the Arab Spring, or more accurately, the Islamist Winter. He failed to deal with that too, and I challenge anyone to demonstrate a positive from that ongoing clusterfuck. Tunisia isn’t better now than it was, it’s just a different kind of hell. Libya is far worse and Egypt might be back to par–after the murder of how many Coptic Christians??? But Obama’s real Middle East failure has been Syria. He’s done nothing, and then when he’s ready to do something, he’s doing it for the wrong reasons, to which he then gets punked by Putin (which has emboldened Russia and partially led to the Ukrainian crisis we have today), and then he goes back to doing nothing.

    Afghanistan? Do you have any idea how convoluted and restrictive the rules for engagement are for US forces? Do you know what the mission objective is? Cause I don’t, and neither do most of the forces on the ground because the current Administration has changed emphasis how many times and how many directions?

    Your question is humorous only in that what is happening right now is a direct result of your actions. You elected Obama, and this is what Obama has done.

    Maybe resumes are important after all….

  24. Rules of engagement have been convoluted since at least Vietnam. Restrictions become tighter with years. The progressives in government and the news industry worry more about our enemies than our own troops. They also worry more about economic fairness than they do about good jobs for a majority of people. Their regulations gradially strangle the economy like a bull snake kills its prey.

    They are slowly destroying this country. Young people, blacks, and women put them in office. Ironically those are among the people who are suffering the most.

    I believe elements of big business want more immigrants to keep wages down. LIberals want more foreigners to win votes and to pollute the culture as Soviets did in Eastern Europe. They moved Russians into those countries to create pro- Russian sentiment when it was needed.

    If there is any justice, the next 9/11 attack will kill or wound people who voted for Obama and his allies. I don’t believe anything else will convince them of the evil they have done.

  25. Tex, Poolman thinks ISIS is led by an Israeli spy.

    But remember, Rabbit. Poolman told us he’s just an anti-Zionist; not a Jew hater (cough cough)…

    I’m sure that reasoning covers a multitude of excuses for the Tool™man.

  26. Rabbit Al Qaeda has a multi language magazine titled Inspire, Hamas has a tv station and twitter. ISIL online presence and their prospectus reports not really earth shattering.

  27. Fair point….but those groups you named aren’t Somali Skinnies on aluminum fishing boats.

    ISIS propaganda is different then a tightly controlled faux magazine. ISIS seem to offer a terrorist stink beard form of populism. Their recruiting is modern. Individual jihadists tweeting about the simple enjoyment of a Snickers bar one moment, showing decapitated heads the next.

    The social media “me” generation meets Al Queda. Dangerous.

  28. Of course they have to promote themselves, Alfie. How else do you expect Americans to know about them? It’s all about perception anyway. Terrorists need to get the word out if they expect to be feared. That IS the goal. Fear is what they are going for. Fear is what governments use to MANipulate™ their citizens. We in America are the most propagandized generation in history.

    America has been messing with Syria since the 50’s. It is what we do. We have a similar history all over the world. Sometimes it’s covert. If made public, we generally claim humanitarian reasons, which always proves to be bullshit.

    As for Iraq and Afghanistan, both were invaded without an exit strategy or any long term occupation plan. Obama inherited that mess and his efforts (or lack thereof) made it much worse.

    The whole thing reminds me of a bunch of horny old men engaging in drunken unprotected sex. The plan to invade Iraq was on the neocon bucket list for at least a decade prior to our new Pearl Harbor event.

    Look what we did with Libya. With Egypt.

    You people chose to ignore the words of men like General Wesley Clark who forewarned us in 2001 of ALL these planned events. Now you act as if they are spontaneous grass roots efforts, when it’s obvious these campaigns have been planned, sponsored, and promoted.

  29. Tex, now the political whore wants to try some kissy face with Obama to make up for the slight. Someone on some outlet somewhere questioned her ability to survive the primaries. Although I still think her nomination could well be the best thing for the republicans’ in 2016, am starting to wonder whether she can hold up. Especially after seeing her with Colbert and that moo moo on the beach (shutter). Repulsive.

  30. I wish dudes could wear moo-moos.

    LOL! Isn’t that what the stinkbeards wear? The thought of being surrounded by the stench would be enough for me to go jihadi with a suicide bomb and introduce them to their 72 buffed cyclops.

  31. Why is it that when you guys discuss Syria you leave out the part where Congress would not authorize military intervention?

    I fully agree that Obama should not have drawn a red line if he wasn’t gonna follow through but doesn’t Congress own some of this too?

  32. Rutherford, as rabbit wrote by the time Obama went to Congress, it was too late. Obama with his European allies led from behind to destablize Middle Eastern nations like Libya and Egypt during the Arab Spring. Later rebellious factions were hard to distinguish.

    Why would he need Congress now? To share the blame.

  33. Why is it that when you guys discuss Syria you leave out the part where Congress would not authorize military intervention?

    As is often noted by our cowardly Commander-in-Chief, Blammo doesn’t need Congressional approval…and didn’t obtain it for these pin pricks on ISIS.

    How is Obama’s New World Order doing now that it’s on fire in front of his fogged eyes?

  34. ISIS seem to offer a terrorist stink beard form of populism.
    I put that forth in the previous thread. I brought up how ISIL offers the more immediate gratification thing the gen x nutters dig.
    Don’t get me wrong DR I don’t discount the danger ISIL presents I just think they are more focused in mission and geography.
    My mentioning of the Somali pirate thing was all about international attention and response. Three task forces have permanent standing now in the Gulf of Aden and Persian Gulf comprised of 30 countries plus the unofficial add on players like Iran.
    So as for ISIL: We have sent advisers and air strikes. France is sending weapons to the Kurds. Russia will surely help Assad further. Turkey will not take it easy no matter ones opinion of Erdogan. UK is also taking an aid stance.

  35. Rutherford there have been folks in Congress including (D)s who were all about anti-Assad activity and have worn that cap for some time now.
    ANY involvement in Syrias infant civil war was out of order,it was almost always guaranteed to experience the jihad shit once the controls were taken off. This “new” wave of jihadist are opportunistic as opposed to original.

  36. Alfey,

    I hear you about ISIS being geographical in outlook right now. And you are correct, states need allies, something Al Quedastan doesn’t have.

    Ultimately, they will run away like cockroaches and follow the original Al Queda play book. Once they go asymmetrical, look out.

    That’s why its imperative we kill all of them right now in the stink beard fly trap that is Iraq.

  37. Bush was correct. We ARE in a war on terror. And yes, it’s IS ill defined with no end in sight.

    Hating this reality doesn’t make it go away. Having a flake for president doesn’t make it go a way.

    We have three choices. We can retreat like we are now. Turn America into a paranoid police state (which we are also doing now).

    Or fight for freedom. Yes….killing these stink beards is for our freedom.

    We need a full invasion of Northern Iraq.

    Gitmo better build some new cells.

  38. They may move like an army, but what happens when their heavy equipment can’t be serviced, their “troops” supplied, and their cruelty to the locals repaid?

    Seems to me that the coordination and communication that allowed them to advance ain’t worth a shit if they are physically divided and cut off for any extended period.

    Caveat: I don’t know jack diddly about this shit. I am just closing my eyes and imagining what happens when the supplies are cut off. What the fuck do they do when their Abrams throws a semi-lunar bifurculator valve or whatever?

    One thing for sure though. The “limited airstrike” nonsense is as I said: like spitting on a bonfire. Just a waste of time.

    Or maybe I should stick to moo moos. . .

  39. That’s why its imperative we kill all of them right now in the stink beard fly trap that is Iraq.

    While I’m not a fan of the stinkbeard lingo, I think Rabbit is right.

    Right now ISIL is bold and out in the open. If we wanted to it would be like shooting fish in a barrel. Once they go underground it will be much much harder to get rid of them.

  40. We need a full invasion of Northern Iraq.

    Again I agree with Rabbit but he’s wrong on the “war on terror”. That is no more sane than the war on drugs.

    You identify the SPECIFIC enemy and you annihilate them. No one wants to hear this but this is a POLICE action using the military as international law enforcement.

    Terrorists should be treated as criminals, not sovereign states that we are at war with.

    OR we go full throttle on Bush doctrine and declare war on Syria, Iraq and Pakistan for harboring terrorists.

  41. One thing for sure though. The “limited airstrike” nonsense is as I said: like spitting on a bonfire. Just a waste of time.

    Or maybe I should stick to moo moos. . .

    Yup, stick to moo moos. The only objective to the limited air strikes is to give breathing room to the Peshmurga (sp) so the mountain refugees and our own folks in Erbil stay safe.

    The Pentagon has been VERY clear that the objective is very limited.

    With that said, Tigre if you are calling for a bigger response, then yes I’m with you.

  42. I agree we need to destroy the ISIS terrorists quickly. They are already beginning to spread via social media. It is really more of a police action because these are not sovereign nations. The terrorists are operating inside of certain countries, but they are not countries.

    We should not be setting any of them free until after the hostilities end or they die of old age. Many of the fighters we have freed have returned to battle, As non- nationals the Geneva rules don’t apply to them.

    Our military is smaller than it was ten or fifteen years ago, I don’t know if we could sustain a war against the three countries you mentioned,

    We all know what will happen, Obama will use a few bombs and send in some arms without using overwhelming force.

  43. “You identify the SPECIFIC enemy and you annihilate them.”

    Fine. I’ll be specific. The enemy is an ideology that spans every continent, hundreds of ethnic groups and cant even be explained by economic class.

    So….have at it Dr. Rutherford. Where do you start your surgery?

    Obama has, yet again, let the “fish in a barrel’ phase is pass. From what I’ve read, ISIS is already morphing from a straight forward pillaging army into a classic insurgency.

  44. The fact we are all on here scratching our heads and bickering about our objective is due to the asshole who just finished hole 18.

  45. We all know what will happen, Obama will use a few bombs and send in some arms without using overwhelming force.

    Sadly Obama’s already said this.

    I’m beginning to think all these Stone Age countries need to become colonial territories of the United States. We can make Sarah Palin governor of Afghanistan.

    Seriously we take them over, install our governments and rule of law and say goodbye to Sharia.

  46. That’s my point Rabbit. You can’t wage war on an ideology. At least not directly. ISIL can be defined and identified. You kill them. Then you identify other players with the “ideology” and you kill them but they’ve got to demonstrate their danger first. They first have to commit the crime. Otherwise you’re going after hate speech which I know you oppose.

  47. “You identify the SPECIFIC enemy and you annihilate them. No one wants to hear this but this is a POLICE action using the military as international law enforcement.” -R

    Do understand how much you contradicted yourself there?

  48. “You can’t wage war on an ideology”

    Yes you can. We have no choice. Don’t you get that? The ideology is defined by WAR WITH US.

    So you need to be smart but proactive. A “War on Terror” mindset stops ISIS in there ticking tracks, don’t you think? “Don’t do stupid shit” is not doing shit.

    What….no matter what your boyfriend failure in office does…you think we aren’t going to eventually go door to door killing these guys? We are going to have to!

    Oh sure liberals bitch about the ill defined reality we find ourselves in. People wonder why? Because the alternate reality we see now doesn’t exist and they are clueless to the positives on staying on top of this shit.

  49. “Otherwise you’re going after hate speech which I know you oppose.” -R

    It’s not hate speech. Its a declaration of war. And yes……I have different standards for citizens then I do foreign stink beards.

    Bush would have been all over ISIS. You now it.

  50. Rutherford I hate you for putting ME in the position of providing cover for YOUR guy.
    I don’t know what others are looking at but I’ve gobbled up a number of sources.
    On ISIL changing tactics which appears to be a headline manifested out of Gen. Mayville presser. Fox has spun his statement to a degree that is quite simply disgusting. The UK’s Guardian and the US Stars & Stripes have better reporting.
    The level to which ISIL has changed tactics are limited to the areas of the air operations. It is generally seen that ISIL forces have disengaged and blended into the populace. I think this probably lasts about as long as the sorties overhead since if there is nothing else clear about the goings on of where ISIL is its that they are very much in the face and streets of everyone in any given community.

    ET makes an excellent point about what ISIL forces will do as ammunition and parts for some of their heavier stuff becomes an issue. I imagine they’ll abandon them and rotate other stuff in. The region is awash with Russian shit anyway I imagine they’ll gravitate towards that.

    Although I totally get rabbit’s concerns and opinion that the straits be dire and theres only one way out I simply disagree.
    Obama is leading from behind and being hands off and all of that which goes with it. Congress is getting frustrated although its pretty obvious they are dishonest with their ire. The military heads are said to be getting frustrated with being tasked a nowhere gig that they did not create the problem of. I feel their pain too.
    Take a moment though folks and a deep breath. Is it better to send Americans back into harms way for this? Isn’t there some room for waiting to see if ISIL crosses the Rubicon as it were and serves up a clearer target? I think there is since I believe what we’re seeing is a logical progression of a Sunni v Shiite thing and that there is all ready regional and international dominoes about to fall.
    If Iraq manages to alter the central government to look like a more inclusive thing some of the fervor for ISIL will fade. If it doesn’t you are really looking at a partition scenario. In that case we have to put the Kurds above all. I think I vote Shia for seconds and hope the Sunnis just start killing themselves I guess.

  51. “The level to which ISIL has changed tactics are limited to the areas of the air operations. ” -A

    Yeah. That’s the point.

    They didn’t attack Tehran on September 11. They didn’t attempt to blow a plane up over Baluchistan on Christmas Eve, they were directly over mine.

    I agree….a lot of this is Sunni-Shitte madness. Exactly why we better not let Iran get the ball. But….these Sunni stink beards obsess on America just as much. The proof is in the pudding.

  52. Well the trick is in deciding when they’ve crossed the rubicon. Obama excuses aside, we had an intelligence failure vis-a-vis the Iraqi military running scared and giving all their American shit to ISIL. We didn’t see that coming.

    If I’m not mistaken, unlike the Taliban, these ISIL characters have already said they’re coming after us when they get around to it.

    We have to be able to discern local skirmishes from global ambitions.

    Goddam Elric. My opinion of Muslims deteriorates with each passing day. 😦

  53. “Well the trick is in deciding when they’ve crossed the rubicon.” -R

    How about when they fly their evil black flag we deem the Rubicon crossed.

  54. The minute they started summarily slaughtering folks who couldn’t pass their roadside checkpoint religious quiz, they crossed the rubicon with me. Some really sick bastards.

  55. Damn I actually didn’t complete my thought. My point was since we had bad intel on their first major Iraqi move, I’m not sure I trust our spies to know when ISIL is about to cross the rubicon.

  56. “My point was since we had bad intel on their first major Iraqi move” *R

    Not sure why you think we had bad Intel on that. Surely you aren’t believing the words that come out of Obama’s suck hole.

    That being said…interesting point on the Iraqi army. God knows what our Intel was on them. For all we know our spooks were desperately trying to get this failure administration to wake up. I don’t know.

  57. One discomfiting term is “advisers.” We are sending “advisers” to the region. We sent “advisers” into Southeast Asia for many years. This could evolve.

  58. Rutherford says:

    If I’m not mistaken, unlike the Taliban…

    Read apiece that the Afghan Taliban has altered their seasonal fighting tactics and have initiated broader set offensives and that there is evidence that Pakistan intelligence has helped them. Its like a sick rewind thing.

  59. The thing with Iraq is the legit question of how much each sect is invested in the country. Clearly any nationalism has disintegrated and been replaced by sectarian devotion.
    You know if this was like a bad Sims game you get to a point where you can sympathize a little with those that do have to make the real life decisions.
    Take me for example I really want to help the Kurds. I support them and the game will tell me I’ve pissed off the Iranians and the Turks.I’ve also helped Christian,Yazids and Muslims live though.
    Second level I’m more inclined to help the Shia in the South for a couple of reasons. I do so at the risk of doing the leg work for Tehrans ultimate benefit and that sucks.
    In Syria I would’ve left Assad alone essentially letting him crush the rebellion early and quick. I would’ve obviously looked to get some electoral opposition to happen afterwards but BAM I’m a schmuck for letting him do more of what he and his daddy did.

  60. And because you mentioned it in the post-ette R. the Ukraine. 280 trucks painted white heading for the border. Do they get allowed in? Denied? Are they Trojan Horses? Is this the out Putin & the rest of us need to calm this down?

  61. Last one re the Rubicon. I think the world is more likely to follow through on some of this ISIL stuff. Africa/Boko Harem just too bothersome,toss a hashtag and be done. Ukraine? Scary and winter will make the scene soon enough and scary. Stateless shit bags who are pissing off tons of folks in a hot region where action holds the potential for domestic $$$$$$$ I’m thinking folks are smelling a winner,a redeemer and opportunity.

  62. “The Pentagon has been VERY clear that the objective is very limited.”

    And Brennan was VERY clear in 2011 that the “absurd, feckless delusion” of Islamic terrorists trying to build a caliphate in the Middle East — promising “not to organize our counter-terrorist policies” around preventing what is now a reality in Iraq and Syria.

    The clarity of the message or the mission doesn’t change my point on iota.

  63. Well the trick is in deciding when they’ve crossed the rubicon. Obama excuses aside, we had an intelligence failure vis-a-vis the Iraqi military running scared and giving all their American shit to ISIL. We didn’t see that coming. ” – R


    Intel has been telling Obama that the Iraqi Security Forces were sectarian focused for years. He knew this, it was not a surprise, and if he was truly surprised, then he’s as dumb as Biden since he was told.

    What happened in Mosul was pretty simple. The U.S. had trained the ISF in Mosul, which at the time was made up largely of Peshmerga forces with Kurdish generals. Roughly 2 years ago, in an effort to block the Kurds from expanding the Green line (the boundary for Kurdistan) to Mosul, Maliki replaced all the U.S. trained Kurdish forces and generals with Shia. Fast forward and when ISIL start coming, the Shia clearly made the decision that dying for Sunni and Kurds was not in their interest, so they left. This is confirmed by the fact that the Shia have not backed down in Baghdad, where the city is now mostly Shia. The failure of the ISF is that it is not a national security force, and the ethnic-sectarian issues of the country are preventing a unified security approach to the problem.

    The Sunni have zero reason to trust Maliki. Zero. So why fight ISIL for the Government of Iraq when that same government refuses to acknowledge or support the Sunni? This is the central piece that made the anti-AQ movement in 2007-08 successful, because the Sunni saw that they had a chance for a fair shake in the central government, especially while the U.S. was still there. Once we abruptly left, and the realization that they had been betrayed by Maliki and the Shia sunk in, they stopped fighting AQI.

    Actions, consequences…

  64. I’m over generalizing but similar actions and consequences were evident in Vietnam. The Case- Church amendment nullified the Paris Peace Accords and as a result, the US cut aid to South Vietnam. President Ford practically begged Congress not to cut funding, but the Nixon fiasco weakened his position, and he gave up.

    South Vietnamese forces were running out of fuel and spare parts. Troops went into battle with rationing which allowed as few as three bullets per day.

    The North made an experimental incursion which was more successful than they expected, so they pushed on without fear of American bombs etc. The South Vietnam army realized it had been abandoned and soldiers fled to get themselves and their families out of the country.

    Again,, I’m generalizing but in both cases, Democratic actions led to similar consequences.

  65. 93, Rutherford. I saw several things wrong with the Ferguson shooting and riots. The first was that the the police officer may have over reacted and killed when he needent have. The second was the riot and looting. The third was my assumption that the rioters were black before I read the details.

  66. Yeah…I think there are some differences.

    1. In Rwanda the Tutsis and Hutus had a long history of doing bad things to one another. The Yazidis lay low and keep to their selves. This isn’t a case of revenge against the Yazidiz.

    2. The mess in Rwanda had nothing to do with the United States. The French or Belgians (can’t remember who colonized it) should have went in there. Not America.

    3. Iraq is tied to America. We had a president bragging about America pulling out of a peaceful Iraq. Bad policy created this situation. We had another President who thought regime change HAD to be tied to nation building.

    4. Rwanda wasn’t existential to an ethnic group/creed. The complete eradication of a culture…..I don’t know man…..we can’t let that happen in a country we’ve danced with for two decades.

    5. The Tutsis or Hutus weren’t screaming “Death to America” promising suicide attacks and terrorism on U.S. territory. Nor were the Rwandans tied to a group that attacked us on 9/11.

    So….while understand the argument staying out this shit….I reject its a carbon copy of other horrific shit we stayed out of.

  67. as for Ferguson, MO…..I went and checked the crime stats. It’s a small suburb….20 thousand something people. It reminded me of the suburb of Inkster, MI which I grew up next to.

    Inkster is way more violent. Like 3 times as violent.

    The crime wasn’t that bad in Ferguson.

    Jesse Jackson says there is a Ferguson next to all of us. But hates on the 2nd Amendment in the same breath.

    Fuck…if there is a Ferguson next to everyone of us I’m glad I’m armed.

    I saw business owners successfully defending their business with AR15’s in Ferguson just like my family has done countless times.

    Out of my cold dead hands……

  68. I hear you DR, and I certainly agree that these events aren’t exactly the same. That said, there are some significant implications for the Yazidi situation, which is a very clear case of genocide, which carries international obligations for ALL states to intervene. But it doesn’t stop with the Yazidis though, as the Christian persecution occurring in Syria and Iraq also justifies and mandates international obligation to intervene.

    If Muslims, or Jews, or Kurds, or whatever ethno/sectarian group were being systematically targeted, by international law, states would be required to intervene, but since these are Christians, well, there seems to be a double standard for that.

  69. What differentiates the Yazidis, and what is happening to them, from Rwanda?

    Should that matter in any decision to act?

    G the shorthand that I’ve heard justifying the current limited action is “not another Benghazi, not another Rwanda”.

  70. i am surprised. A group of Yadizis is meeting with Nebraska officials to persuade them to help their cause in Iraq. We know much of the world lives here, but I didn’t think the Yadizi were “right here in river city.”.

    Biden suggested a partition at least ten years ago. I didn’t think it was unreasonable then, and current events make it seem smarter.

  71. A partition is an incredibly bad idea, which is why I’m not surprised you and jumping Joe support it.

    What are the second and third order effects from that?

    Do you think that an independent Kurdistan isn’t going to impact and destabilize Turkey and Iran, who have sizeable, homogenous Kurdish populations that would be inclined to break-away or unite. After all, the Kurds remain the largest nation of people in the world who do not enjoy their own state. Further, they’re land-locked and any future Kurdish state would certainly have strained relations with their neighbors, considering they just absorbed 1/3-1/2 of Turkey and probably 1/8-1/5 of Iran. Of course the Iraqis won’t like them either since the Kurds will ensure they take some of the natural resources, so…

    What about the Sunnis? Are you willing to write off approximately 1/3 of the Iraqi population to more or less nothing, since the bulk of the natural resources of Iraq lie in the Kurdish Northeast or the Shia South. Do you really think they’ll happily join Jordan? Syria? Especially now?

    And is it really in the interest of the U.S., or the region or world, to have another Shia state, which invariably will be beholden to Iran. What does that do for Bahrain? How about the Huthis in Yemen? Do you really think that Saudi Arabia and the rest of the Sunni Arab states in the region will be supportive? Of course not, which means destabilized regional security and the continued possibility of sectarian based, state/proxy conflict.

    Still sound like a good idea to you?

  72. Since you put it that way, no.

    Had we maintained a force and influenced the government for a generation or two partition would be less of an issue.

  73. I am absolutely shocked at the outpouring of support for R2P. I’ll tell you this you can send your kids mine are not going.

  74. I actually agree Alfie, but the left has pushed this notion heavily for some time now, most recently using Libya. There is guilt thrown around for things like Rwanda, Serbia, etc, and there is precedent and standing in international law. So it must be considered…

  75. G is correct about the tremendous instability an independent Kurdistan would cause. And there are some very unsavory Kurdish outfits out there.Marxist,

    That being said…..And I’m talking emotionally right now…(as Alphie correctly is already on to me to some extent) I think an independent Kurdistan is moral. These people deserve a state. Maybe when the dust settles, a Kurdish Allie who loves is like the people of Kosovo do, would be a good thing. A barb in the side if all these asshole states and a moderating force within Stinkbeardom.

    However, on this one boys, I’m shooting from the hip.

  76. Rutherford, since you’ve become among the resident experts here, why do you think the spumoni of Iraqi diplomacy (3 state solution) wouldn’t collapse under its own weight as G says?

    Also, I also love the irony in your offering more substantive commentary than the last 2 years combined in this post. . . entitled Talk Amongst Yourselves. 😆

  77. Ah…I would not have guessed that.

    I heard something this morning that I had forgotten. Many have lashed out at the State of Israel for having “false borders” that were established by Britain and voted for approval by the U.N. after WWII.

    Did you guys know the same thing was done for Iraq after WWI? Interesting.

    Getting back to Alfie’s point, I have pretty much reached the same conclusion about sending American blood for anything Muslim, lest it be in a coalition like ’91. But we can bomb the shit out of them and I won’t bat an eye. Frankly, these fools are unmanageable, unteachable, evil, and crazy.

    I’ve concluded anything we can do to hasten turning them on each other, I’ll applaud. Then we ought to sit on the sidelines and await the victor before blowing them to kingdom come.

    Except maybe the Kurds. However, it’s been my experience anything affiliated with Islam, wait around long enough and they’ll turn crazy too.

  78. “Also, I also love the irony in your offering more substantive commentary than the last 2 years combined in this post. . . entitled Talk Amongst Yourselves.”

    I noticed that too. I think Rutherford freed himself from an official blog entry and, hence, freed himself from MSNBC group think.

  79. As Barack “Eldrick” Obama approaches his 200th round of golf since his election as president, here’s a fact to put that into perspective: Since January 2009, Tiger Woods has played 269 rounds of golf.

    And Tiger, beleaguered by injury, is almost certainly done for the year. So that means the president, if he keeps up with his pace of play during his 15-day vacation in Martha’s Vineyard (a round a day) and his normal weekly round, will pass Tiger sometime next spring.

    Think about that for a minute. The president of the U.S., juggling the American economy and the entire world’s problems — Iraq is in full meltdown, the Middle East is a powder keg, Russia is moving on Ukraine — has played golf nearly as much as a guy whose day job is playing golf…

    He may complain about the “One Percent,” but he doesn’t mind being one of them — as long as the American taxpayer is footing the bill. ~ Michael Walsh


  80. Well there’s something to be said for entering a conversation without having been torn asunder for the blog post you just wrote. 🙂

    Besides I tend to be less deliberately obnoxious when I’m clearly in learn mode … see next comment.

  81. Regarding the suburban St Louis riots … the police thuggery has outlasted the riots.

    I recall some of you shaking your heads at the near militaristic response to the Boston marathon bombers. I see the sane going on outside St Louis. Coming soon to a neighborhood near you unless something is done about it.

  82. Rutherford with a libertarian response to the militant police state?

    Duuuuuuude, don’t you see you and your liberal friends’ agenda is the problem?

    What are you going to do about it?

  83. Before our troops left, I think a unified Iraq was a realistic goal. Now, it will be much harder.

    We could still keep Iraq united, but it would be harder. I don’t think the majority of people has the attention span to understand the issues or to support a long war with inconclusive results.

  84. That GnR song ‘One in a Million’ comes to mind when I see what’s up in Ferguson.

    To pull one out of the James playbook I’ll drop the lyrics:

    Police and Niggers, that’s right
    Get out of my way
    Don’t need to buy none of your
    Gold chains today
    I don’t need no bracelets
    Clamped in front of my back
    Just need my ticket; ’til then
    Won’t you cut me some slack?

    Seriously, I don’t care if the kid was killed by a Sheriff Klansman with a Hitler stash, you don’t go looting like a bunch of rabid lemurs escaping the Toledo zoo.

    White people are killed far more often by black people and there are millions more of us whites. You don’t see us looting Radio Shack over it. Hell…we don’t even complain. Its expected!

    And the Police? Wtf? That town isn’t even that crime ridden. Why in the hell do they look like Navy SEALS? It’s not local police anymore. Each town has a federal clone army equipped to destroy all of us. Looks like they get all their gear from the bat cave.

    Federal Jack Boots and feral blacks…..leave me the fuck alone!

    As for what went down in the first place…who knows.

    Obama….I beg of you…shut your mouth. Nobody gives a shit what you have to say before you start the back nine.

    I have angry black people fatigue. I just don’t care much one way or the other when they are pissed.

    Honestly….I was at the Tiger game downtown today and race relations seemed pretty good. The savages stayed in the Hood and normal people of all races were downtown. I don’t understand why the entire country is required to go through this dance routine because of a localized issue.

    The worse thing for race relations is to have a national dialog about race relations.

  85. Rabbit you get no argument from me about the rioting. Even Obama condemned it.

    BUT last night reporters on the scene saw no provocation for the tear gas and smoke bombs.

    Seriously if we can’t visually discern between cops and soldiers then we’ve got a big problem.

  86. So here’s the deal. Some of you have talked about the Feds hoarding serious hardware to put down the inevitable American uprising. But the stories I’m watching (yes Tigre on FMSNBC) suggest local communities are getting this hardware — much of it from the Feds.

    Are the Feds arming their eventual enemy? Where does this dissemination of war toys end? Seems no matter how you look at it, it doesn’t end well.

    And Rabbit, you ok with it so long as it is used against folks with whom you don’t sympathize? Like those grievance hustling blacks?

  87. Oooooooooo, Obama condemned it! Of course, its hard to take that very serious, considering that he was on the golf course seven minutes after his press conference. (Yes, seven minutes, as clocked by media…)

  88. How realistic is a unified Iraq?” – R

    I think a unified Iraq is far more viable than a divided state. But I don’t know right now. Obama has really fucked this up.

    How do you stop, and eventually push back, ISIL forces without a large contingent of forces on the ground?

    Can you deal with the Iraq situation without fixing Syria first? Can you deal with the Syria situation without fixing Iraq first?

    How do you strengthen and empower the Sunni populace within the Government of Iraq within the current sectarian environment?

    I’ve said this before, not doing something is the same as doing something. Action, or the lack thereof, has consequences. I respect and understand Alfies point on R2P, and agree 95% with him. I hate neo-cons, and the premise of spreading democracy via force and nation building. That said, we are a state with interests, and we’ve neglected the interests of the state for years now.

    Where we stand right now in the Middle East is terrifying, and I don’t know how to fix it without the shedding of a lot of blood…

  89. “And Rabbit, you ok with it so long as it is used against folks with whom you don’t sympathize? Like those grievance hustling blacks?”

    DR, you like that little device, you racist MoFo? See how he turned it around? The guy who calls the IRS targeting a “nothing burger” suddenly sees a problem with the misuse of government power and accuses you of his sins? 🙄

  90. Yeah…..weird. Plus I just got done saying how concerning it was that the local police were so militarized and federalized.

  91. The black rioters were wrong. Many came from outside to take advantage of the situation so they could steal free stuff. It reflects a cultural trait.

    During the flood, people of our culture abandoned their homes and faced few if any looters. A Bismark writer noted the difference of behavior from our region and New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina.

    The change of behavior after the Highway patrol took over may mean the worst of the rioters got what they wanted and left. Or the police behavior is another example of government overreach.

    Obama said early on that we need a civilian military force as powerful and well- financed as our traditional military. Government agencies like the Ag Department have been arming themselves. We saw an example of government force in the Bundy case.

    As we know, the police are getting some of the weapons.l think Iowa City got a tank.

    We still don’t know why. Is the government preparing for a popular uprising, or maybe a terrorist attack? Or is it merely distributing surplus arms?

    Ferguson reminded me of the initial protest in Kiev. It also brought to mind a near riot in college. The president of the college circulated among the students and spoke to them by name to diffuse the situation.. The Highway Patrol appears to have been doing the same thing to diffuse the violence.

    Maybe the police were over- reacting as the Ukrainians did at first.It looks like misuse of power akin to what the IRS, Justice Department and other agencies have inflicted on us.

    KFAB radio quoted an eye witness who saw several store owners standing outside with guns aimed. Their stores survived.

    Nice one rabbit.

  92. Yeah…..weird. Plus I just got done saying how concerning it was that the local police were so militarized and federalized.

    No not so weird. You couldn’t address the militarization without tossing in your boredom with black accusations of racism. Surely I can agree with one half of your point and not the other.

    Let’s repeat … no excuse for rioting. None. Zero. Nada. Concern about a bad shoot being covered up? Maybe so.

  93. James I’m real uncomfortable with rioting being called a cultural attribute. On the other hand if blacks do it more than whites, then I don’t know how to counter you.

  94. Rutherford, I don’t mean it is racial. Thomas Sowell traced the culture to so called-white trash which he wrote came from a part of England. I don’t know if it is true, but I think the northern Midwest and southern Canada still harbor bits of their northern European culture .

    For example, Brits and Swedes tend to stand in line. Italians don’t. Britis and Swedes tend to be standoffish and emotionally reserved. italians and French are the opposite.

    If you want to see hints of Russian culture Google “Real Russia” on YouTube. Two young Russians tape daily life and show how it is to be Russian, “McDonalds in Russia” shows him washing his hands before ordering,

    Another is a series of “Joe Goes to” including Chicago, Finland, and Sweden.”

  95. You can never stamp out religious lunacy, (witness Rome’s attempts with christianity) but you can contain it.

    Your country needs to get its head out of its ass and take the money it is spending on sailing nuclear aircraft carriers and put it into REAL energy independence. Then license ALL the technology to anybody who wants it, so that China and all of Europe will stop buying Arab loony oil. (Everything will be running on electricity generated by nuke or summat similar.)

    Simultaneously organize the Free World to boycott all trade with any Islamist loony regime.

    Now let them sit there with all the oil in the world and nothing to eat. As Dr. Johnson said, “Depend upon it, sir, when a man knows he is to be hanged in a fortnight, it concentrates his mind wonderfully.”

    So does starvation.

    Notice my plan does not include one American G.I. fatality.

    No charge; my pleasure.

  96. This predisposition to go feral and loot is the same root cause that once in a blue moon (more then 90 percent of all murdered blacks are by blacks) some racist or just nervous cop goes over board with a thug or thug wannabe.
    I’m shocked how rare this is. Can you imagine working day in day out with these savage, fatherless communities?

    Due to highway construction, I didn’t use the highway to get downtown, yesterday. Always a legitimate risk, so my Smith and Wesson was loaded with anti car jacking 410 rounds.

    You should have seen the thugs sauntering in and out of the middle of the road. I went right by where a poor white soul hit one of these people last Spring. He got out of his car to help but was beat into a coma by a group of savages screaming racial shit.

    Of course that didn’t wind you up.

    And you know what? Maybe it shouldn’t. While a black is much more likely to kill a white then the other way around, there still isn’t a racial violence problem in the country.

    Are you aware of the black woman shot in the head at point blank during the Ferguson riot?

    If not, how come?

    I’m bored with selective outrage that paints a false narrative, particularly one that divides the nation further, is driven by ratings and race based politics.

    You only get wound up when they tell you to.

    The only time you talk about urban violence is the rarest of rare situation.

    I’ll never forget the lack of comment from you after more people were killed in Chicago then in Baghdad over the same weekend. Crickets.

    This might sound like a gay man from the mid 90’s, but Rutherford…. “speak to the hand’….

    Bored of you toy soldiers wind up toys.

  97. “You can never stamp out religious lunacy, (witness Rome’s attempts with christianity) but you can contain it.” Parker

    Yeah…the lunacy of boycotting the gladiatorial games, giving women and slaves a voice and refusing to deify Nero.

    I remember Tex and I got in a massive internet fight over my statement that Christianity was one of many causes for the decline of Rome.

    I stand by it. Tex assumed I meant that Christianity was a negative force. Far from it!

    What I never explained is I thought Christian ethics were like oil and water when it came to disgusting Roman take on human life.

    It wasn’t until the empire embraced Christianity that we see some of the “lunacy” Pfessor talks about.

  98. “He was just a misguided boy who was beginning to turn his life around, He had an infectious grin, and he was a good friend” He was finishing his GED and/or was planning to attend college.. A variation is” he was a good father to all of his children,”

    We hear the same thing in Omaha after the latest young man is shot.

    Our daughter is a therapist and now duel office manager. Her employer has a contract to counsel such nice young men. Two of them killed three other clients and on two occasions the staff thought the end was coming for them. A client burned down one of their office buildings.

    Though friends and family mourn those people our society benefits and sometimes others live because these young men die before their criminal careers completely evolve.

    I’m not condoning murder, but this may be something else.

  99. Comical how its the same thing everytime. The “news” paints this picture of an innocent boy, fueling the outrage, poisoning every jury pool and 4 days later we find out its #no limit nigga. And R asks why I am bored with this perennially cycled construct?

    After seeing a video of Big Thug’s wanton disrespect of law and horrible bullying, I’m believing the cop’s story all day.

    10 minutes later this piece if shit thug stopped throwing his weight around? Yeah, right.

    This cop might very well be innocent . Once again lynched by liberal America as the story is completely skewed to his disadvantage .

    Even if the cop fired one off at the end in a panicked frenzy, its still not hard to feel sorry for the officer…dude doesn’t make enough to battle this black Goliath .

    Well….either way…that police officer’s life is now ruined.

    15 dead in Chicago and nary a peep.

  100. LOL I’m watching Fox News and the correspondent is asking Jesse Jackson why he is in Ferguson MO and not in Chicago where blacks die every weekend.

    It’s like Rabbit wrote her script. I need to watch more Fox so I can predict what I’m gonna read here. LOL and you guys call me an MSNBC stooge.

    If I watched as much Fox as Tigre watches MSNBC I could have lots of fun calling you guys stooges.

  101. Oh and btw I swear this lady sitting in for Hannity sounds like a 10 year old. It’s like watching a jr high journalism student doing her first interview. Absolutely wild.

  102. G are you in favor of permanent US occupation of Iraq? Cos I think that’s the natural conclusion if you’re gonna blame the Iraq thing on Obama. ” – R

    It is?

    Sure it is. Weren’t we there about 10 years and our training of their military was sooo effective that the minute we left they bent over and took it up the ass from ISIL.

    So when would it be ok for us to leave Iraq G? How long before they can sustain their own stable democracy? Another 10 years? 20? 30?

  103. You should have seen the thugs sauntering in and out of the middle of the road.

    Fret not Rabbit I’ve got a new post brewing in my head that will piss off many of my friends.

    I’m more fed up than you can imagine especially because I’m raising a black daughter.

    I’ll give you a preview: the title of my next post will be “Damn! Another Thug!”

  104. I don’t find Parker’s plan even remotely plausible.
    Although I am an opponent of the over use of SWAT I have to say the representation of Ferguson and other incidents of government overreach and The Man oppressing the People is out of line. We The People have willingly elected the very thing that results in SWAT being around.

  105. I haven’t watched a minute of FOX News in the last month. In fact, outside of baseball….not a second of TV.

    Not to try to score pity points, R….but I have been at hospice or at home with the kids while my wife is at hospice. Death rattle freaked me out today but I was told it doesn’t mean pain.

    There is a greater chance Fox News stole my bit then I stole it from Fox News.

    That being said….what a fucking awesome question. Thank God for Fox News.

  106. “Jesse Jackson why he is in Ferguson MO and not in Chicago where blacks die every weekend.”

    What did he say??????

  107. R, what FOX show are you watching? I am watching FOX because of your comment right now going to town on the militaristic police response. O’Reilly’s justifying the Ferguson response and tearing the race hustlers.

    DR’s question is the same asked by the black community itself, including Sharpton. What is it that’s being fed to DR or anyone else? I’ll look for it. I’d like to see what has you Lol Lol Lol Lol Lol.

  108. There is a greater chance Fox News stole my bit then I stole it from Fox News.

    I should be saying that but Tigre would never believe me.

    I forgot about your FIL Rabbit. Hang in there dude.

  109. Tigre I’ve got TiVo on 30 min delay. You’re watching Bill on “The Five”. I was watching Hannity before that. Hosts name was Andrea something. She’s also hosting the Five tonight.

  110. /rutherford, based on past history, I think we should have occupied Iraq for at least twenty or thirty years. These things take time. If we didn’t want to spend the money and time, we shouldn’t have invaded in the first place.

    We don’t have cable, so I don’t watch any of the news talk shows Last night, for instance, my main information source was PBS “The Fish Within US.”

  111. “Tigre I’ve got TiVo on 30 min delay. You’re watching Bill on “The Five”. I was watching Hannity before that. Hosts name was Andrea something. She’s also hosting the Five tonight.”

    I don’t know what the show was, but O’Reilly was calling in and the commentary was plenty critical of the police in Ferguson and all “Rutherford Approved.”

    The blacks dying in Chicago, Detroit etc., comes up on all of the outlets, liberal and conservative, when one of these events happens. It’s kind of unavoidable when you’re watching the fans being flamed by the usual liberal media (yes, MSNBC) and race hustlers trying to exploit it.

  112. Sure it is. Weren’t we there about 10 years and our training of their military was sooo effective that the minute we left they bent over and took it up the ass from ISIL.

    So when would it be ok for us to leave Iraq G? How long before they can sustain their own stable democracy? Another 10 years? 20? 30?” – R

    Ok, so why did their democracy fail? Or has it?

    Did their military fail due to a lack of quality training, or a lack of quality political leadership?

    “War is the extension of politics via other means” – Clausewitz

    As long as their differences determine their actions, their unity-and the collective benefit of such-will always be out of reach.

    They’re more concerned with being Shia, Sunni, or Kurd than they are at being Iraqi.

    Remember that next time you hear Eric Holder, Barack Obama, or Al Sharpton speak on race. This will always differentiate the left from Conservatives. Liberals concentrate on the differences: Black, White, Hispanic, gay, rich, poor, etc–all so they can play one difference against another. Again, it is about collective parity at the lowest common denominator, that’s all socialism has ever been about.

    We were all told that Obama was going to be this great uniter, that he was going to heal the wounds of race in this country and make our differences irrelevant. He has done the exact opposite, emphasizing racial differences for the worst reasons: partisan politics. You think he’s letting in all these illegals because of good will? Of course not, it has everything to do with demographics and the dems efforts to try and solidify the Hispanic vote monolithic ally under the dem party, much like the Black vote. He doesn’t care about the law, or the precedent, of the financial burden of his actions. He’s no different than Maliki playing ethnosectarian politics in Iraq, and the outcome of a divided nation is no different.

    Actions, consequences…..

  113. From the New York Post:

    Will the Obama administration’s military intervention in Iraq be “discreet” or “discrete”?

    That is, does it mean to keep a low profile to avoid offending anti-interventionism at home, or is it simply making a limited show of force?

    Vice President Joe Biden and other administration big shots used “discrete” to describe the president’s decision to order air strikes against the jihadists in northern Iraq.

    Yet many Iraqi leaders at first assumed Washington meant “discreet.” They thus assumed Washington would remain committed to Iraq at least until the Islamic State (or Daesh) forces had been flushed out of Mosul, the country’s third largest city.

    Taking heart from a presumed US commitment, the “discreet” party moved to speed up the formation of a new government. Iraq’s new president, Fuad Masoum, named Haider al-Abadi as prime minister-designate and asked him to form a new government.

  114. 158 I like your answer, gorilla. I have already given a similar answer to the question of how long our forces should remain in Iraq.

    As I wrote before, the South Vietnamese army collapsed because liberal Democrats stopped the funding. The army felt it had been abandoned and soldiers depended upon themselves for their own safety.

    Iraq was politically disfunctional, and our presence would have been a counter balance to influence political behavior and to better assure public safety.

    I used to think the liberals who betrayed Vietnam were the Devil incarnate because of the millions of people their actions indirectly killed.

    I now think the evil people now running our government are worse,

  115. Rutherford…..dude….you don’t have to apologize for what these people do. Just like I don’t. Nor does anyone else for that matter, no matter what the skin color.

    Funny. As I’ve bored you guys with several times, my early childhood was spent at my Grandpa’s ghetto party store. He would have died before these people attacked his store. And this wasn’t shit talk on his end. He backed it up several times with a rifle. Was in full combat for three nights in a row once.

  116. As long as their differences determine their actions, their unity-and the collective benefit of such-will always be out of reach.

    They’re more concerned with being Shia, Sunni, or Kurd than they are at being Iraqi.

    And how will our presence there change that unless WE actually run the government and make Iraq a territory of the United States?

  117. I do have to amend prior statement. The looters last night were not “supporters” of Brown but rather opportunistic thugs. The actual supporters tried to stop them to no avail and are on the local radio today decrying what happened.

    Still it looks like you can always count on some dumb brothers to hijack a perfectly good protest.

  118. I find myself on an island on the Iraq issue and I guess its ok.

    I don’t believe our presence in Iraq was an occupation,at least not in the sense that history speaks to.
    I can’t imagine how anyone can say they would’ve supported our presence and bleeding there for 10,20 or 30 more years. Its un-fucking-imaginable to me that anyone could fathom our presence would have been a) tolerated b) anything other than morphed into a very negative way over time c) politically or fiscally possible on the home front.
    Not for nothing but Iraq was put on its death spiral long before Barack H Obama took over. One can make the case he did little to nothing to alter its near inevitable state. The thing is though Iraq wasn’t in fact an occupied territory and because long held socio-political norms were destroyed one could make the case that the guy elected partly because the voters wanted out wysiwyg and its hardly anything other than partisan sniping that Obamas opponents have going for them.

  119. Ferguson MO incident shows one constant is still true. Black America feels it is owed something and that somebody else is to write the check.
    I don’t know if any investigation can be trusted regards the shooting and I can promise you it will indeed be a multi-layered nightmare that some poor hump will have to reduce and package into a bite size morsel for the great unwashed.
    Some things I think may/will happen include:
    The officer will be sacrificed to some degree. My read is that MO is a better fit for hanging him out to dry than other states. NYC or Boston the union would not likely accept a public pillory of one of the blues for example.
    Circa Holder and LAPD I think something will be put into action for public consumption and politicians bragging rights.
    The prosecution route is thoroughly compromised. Hell the defense can just say over and over again “there was a riot through the “crime” scene”. Its my understanding FPD actually tried to keep the scene fresh. I also saw where some felt Browns body was left in the street to “send a message”. Holy cow we have some stupid people here in the USA.
    Trayvon and now this cat are not the poster children the black community need to fight things like stop & frisk.

  120. Also time and time again looters and rioters who come out in response to incidents fuel society’s calls for law & order thus inevitably perpetuates the problem.
    Seriously I’ve seen a lot of comparisons about what US SWAT/LEO looks like to say the Army or the Cairo military response and on and on. The same people trying to have their “Libertarian Moment” over this are the same folks who scream the loudest when their businesses are torched,stoned etc. and mock other nations police,such as the UK, for their surround and watch tactic during their past social unrest moments.

  121. File this under interesting developments:
    Seems ISIL forces in Syria are closing in on Aleppo. Aleppo has been an FSA (Free Syrian Army aka the really good guys) stronghold that has been under siege by Assads forces.
    FSA has called for international intervention yet again and I’m left wondering what folks think we should do if anything?
    At a min we most likely need to pick a side,pick a battle or pick our seat for the show.

  122. alfie, you live on a pretty large island. Many people agree with you. Fantasy island. Ha!

    No, Iraq was not officially an occupied country because we are allies. Our force was in place to help the government adapt to self rule and to help the military defend the country.

    We would not have been fighting and bleeding for twenty or thirty years, because as Obama stated when we pulled out, Iraq was a self-supporting democracy. Acts of terrorism were on the decline, and while Iraq was no bed of roses, it was not the combat zone it had been. According to a Public Radio report, most Iraqis interviewed favored our continued presence .

    We used to send care packages. After the surge, troops told us they felt safer than they had earlier.

    Our troops presented a psychological presence which would have made it more difficult for rebels to create the problems they had before and after. Some former rebels had switched sides and allied with us. Our political involvement would have let us pressure leaders to be more fair to disparate communities. Our absence gave entropy a chance to flourish.

    Politics and ideology rule Obama and his government. Its true the majority of Americans were at the time as stupid and ignorant as were the voters when we abandoned Vietnam. Thus, leaving Iraq was a popular action. I suspect, even Bush hurried the time table a bit to accomadate public opinion.

    I am not sniping. I am interpreting history.

    I agree with your comments on

    Ferguson, MO. This is a bad time to be a police officer in a mutli-racial city.

  123. Rutherford, we would have to be in Iraq for at least a generation to get the disparate groups to consider themselves to be part of one nation. We might not run the country, but we could heavily influence its destiny behind the scenes. iraq doesn’t need to be a US territory.

    letting the present generation die of old age will be helpful. God kept Moses and his people in the desert for forty years to change the psychology of His people. The originals were former slaves, not warriors.

  124. “perfectly good protest.” -R

    Perfectly good protests, at least in my book, are over a perfectly good cause.

    These people are up in arms (literally) over something I’m 90% sure is complete bull shit.

    Look at the leaders of this “perfectly good protest”. They are now irate that the country saw what this bully did in the store. Character assassination, they say. Spoiling the jury. Give me a fucking break.

    I don’t think this entire protest is worth shit.

    Black people need protests over fathers abandoning their kids, anti snitching street law, and the thousands upon thousands of black teens murdered every year by blacks.

    These protests create a smoke screen and do nothing but harm.

    Nothing good comes out of this shit.

  125. What is to become of the Ferguson police department? Its ability function on the community will be impossible now.

    The piecemeal release of info (the cigar tape) is not helpful. As we saw with Trayvon, Neither the media nor the public with their agendas can be trusted to interpret or deal with the selective bits (e.g. the alleged lack of a gash on the back of Zimm’s head that FMSNBC ran away with until the photos emerged followed by silence).

    Ferguson case in point, the cigar stealing video was selectively released. One take was that there was no proof the cop knew that the cigar incident had occurred so its irrelevant, or as Brown’s family says, it’s character assassination.

    But what of Brown knowing of the incident when confronted by the cop? That of course might explain a reaction/motive etc. for “his” aggressiveness. or it might not. What do we do with this information without the context?

    Whip up tensions by speculating and shouting about it. Nothing more.

    I am growing to really hate this shit.

  126. Ferguson was actually functioning town when you look at the stats. . Its toast now. I know exactly what Ferguson will look like 5 years from now.

  127. So Tigre what I heard was the Perry line item veto was fine. It was his tying it to the drunken DA that got him in trouble. As you correctly state, even my liberal news source is scratching its head saying this is a weak case.

    They also compared this to Blago, saying Blago’s big mouth is what landed him in jail.

  128. Alfie – Even Washington himself in 1796 said to stay out of foreign entanglements and mind your own business. Yanks always have the best of intentions, but in the end their well-meaning interventions do not make the slightest bit of difference in the outcomes of these (mostly) internal struggles.

    The damage done to you by Vietnam is incalculable – in $ alone, about 750 B USD and made not one whit of difference in the eventual outcome. Your response to 9/11 has done far more damage to your country than 9/11 itself ever came close to doing – dollar cost about 1.15 T – that’s trillion – USD. Not to mention the damage done to your way of life by the PATRIOT act.

    Your economy is in the shitter because you spend all your GDP on things that do nothing but blow up. You don’t have money to fix your roads, but you have money to adventure ’round the globe.

    Wise up. Get out of these Middle Eastern tar-babies. The more you try to help, the more you are drawn in, to become the Enemy for these nuts. Let them kill each other – as someone said on this blog, every dead body is Islamic, no matter which side it’s on. If their way of life is the wrong one, they will, over the long term, fail, anyway. And with no enemy (US) to fight, they will fail without taking you down with them.

  129. We damaged our selves in Vietnam because we abandoned our allies.we bought time and saved the lives of South Vietnamese who had fled from the North.We also learned procedures used in later wars. I think the Vietnam debacle arguably contributed to the terrorist war.

    We cannot leave the Middle East alone because modern communication and transportation lets our enemies come here.

    Our problem is that once we enter a war, our attention span is too short to finish it properly.

  130. This one is for you, Parker.I hope you watch it.

    450 of our troops discovered through a mistake in intelligence that they were out numbered eight to one. During the battle they were attacked by friendly fire. Yet, they still won the battle. “We Were Soldiers” was inspired by the Battle of “la Drang.”

    Soldiers did their duty. Their leaders,and voters who put them into office, not so much.

  131. OK I’m quite done with the yank bashing down under holier than now bullshit.
    Australia is hardly without its dirt so focus on that,or learn about it in the first place and then you can come talk some shit.
    Some highlights for your primer:
    Your immigrant concentration camps.
    Your very intense surveillance systems
    The historical treatment of the Aborigines
    The fact that you were in Vietnam as well, and don’t forget your expenditures and politics on East Timor
    You’re now a net importer of petroleum from places as fucked up as you rail about,Congo & Nigeria being two and the “moderate” nightclub blowing up muzzies of Indonesia too.
    Your land rape rivals the USA
    Your foreign policy in Asia that walks a razors edge ultimately leads to you Foster swilling marsupial humpers to end up in a fight that makes you call upon US. Have fun with the USMC should be good for few bar fights and chorus of Waltzing Matilda.

  132. It doesn’t matter if warriors fight this afternoon or ten thousand years ago. They overcome terror and the instinct for self preservation to ultimately protect the rest of us sleeping in our nice homes. Most of us have only a dim perception of what they endure.

    The same to a lessor degree applies to the police who battle crime and civil disorders.As the song says, they “were born to be wasted.”

  133. I saw ear necklaces.

    Vietnamese had a phobia about their bodies being desecrated before entering the spirit world. A few soldiers collected ears, as war trophies, dried them and made necklaces.

    I don’t know if it is true, but someone told me Australians invented the practice.,

  134. “They also compared this to Blago, saying Blago’s big mouth is what landed him in jail.”

    Talking about using a veto is a crime? I don’t see the comparison to Blago’s shopping an appointment. Threatening a veto is part of the process. If speaking of it were a crime, every president in my lifetime belongs behind bars.

    I think this ain’t just weak. It’s loony tunes. Clearly political. I’ll wager it backfires and makes Perry bigger and stronger.

  135. I now see this was brought about by District Attorney Ronnie Earle, the same twat that destroyed Delay before the convictions were tossed.

    At least a large segment of the liberal media seems to see it for what it is.

  136. “At least a large segment of the liberal media seems to see it for what it is.”

    I doubt a large segment of the media cares about any wrong done to the governor of Texas.

    Executive over reach is the last thing on Earth liberals want to fuck with. Particularly over stopping some embarrassing district attorney from ruining peoples lives.

  137. Cool down, Alfie – remember, I’m really Professor Farquahar or summat.

    Australia matters little, because we are not the biggest bully on the block. You ARE. When we get out of hand, the damage is limited. When your leaders make a mistake, the whole world suffers. You spend more on your military than all the rest of the world combined – including all the former Soviet Union and China.

    Every time somebody gets their nose out of joint somewhere, your leaders – and to be fair, it’s the leaders, not the citizens – set some nuclear aircraft carrier sailing off to interfere. And it NEVER works – you just make your best young men – and now women – into targets. And you wonder why the world hates the US. News flash, it’s not your fucking freedom; it’s your leaders. Your current prez is probably your worst leader ever – and that’s a pretty high bar.

    For god’s sake – recognize, for once, a good thing and let the Islamist crazies kill as many of each other as they want. Yes, the women and children are probably NOT that crazy, but they will produce more crazy men with smelly beards, so every one of them that takes a dirt nap is one less Islamist nut with a gun or a bomb. Encourage them from the sidelines and get on with being the REAL free world leader.

  138. And you forgot the worst one, Alfie – universal firearm confiscation.

    Predictably, violent crime, particularly home invasion, has gone through the bloody roof. Don’t let it happen there.

  139. Our problem is that once we enter a war, our attention span is too short to finish it properly.

    I think James is absolutely right here. But James, we wouldn’t need a long attention span if we applied devastating force right away.

  140. Parker, before ISIL I might have agreed with you. God knows that’s become my attitude towards the Israel/Palestine conflict: let the religious nutters fight among themselves and may the better fighter win — BTW that would be Israel — let’s not fool ourselves. They have nukes for goodness sake.

    ISIL has the ability to export this mayhem to our shores. They need to be eliminated.

  141. Man, where is Tex? I know he had tickets to the Gay Games in Cleveland but I thought the closing ceremony was this morning.

  142. I’ll wager he’s helping his daughter with school. It’s that time. I think he’s still got one finishing the Tex bankrupting process.

  143. I think James is absolutely right here. But James, we wouldn’t need a long attention span if we applied devastating force right away. ” – R

    Dude, you’ve demonstrated repeatedly that you’ve no idea what the working end of a gun looks like, let alone the notion of tactics, operations, or strategy, but you’re going to go on about “devastating force”? Shut the fuck up.

    Listen, unless you’re coming out and saying that Obama’s ROE is what is hampering our operations in Afghanistan, fine, but just fucking say it instead of this, “my dick is bigger than 4 inches” display of bravado.

    Towards what end would you like to see “devastating force” applied?

    Better yet, define “devastating force”?

    Or, we could agree on a division of labor: I won’t talk about computer programing, man-crushes, and ankle-grabbing, and you don’t talk about what, when, or how to apply “devastating force”….

  144. So it turns out that Mike Brown was possibly charging the officer at the time of his death. He was shot six times, four in the arm and two in the head–all in the front. Of course, this conflicts with his buddy, and apparent robbery partner, whose story was that Brown was complying and then fleeing the officer, only to be shot in the back and then “executed” in the street. Whoops…

    Obama was apparently upset that Ferguson Police released the video showing Brown robbing the store and assaulting the clerk, which begs the question why since that video and this dialogue in a separate video seriously change the context of the events:

    @6:28/6:29 of video
    #1 How’d he get from there to there?
    #2 Because he ran, the police was still in the truck – cause he was like over the truck
    #2 But him and the police was both in the truck, then he ran – the police got out and ran after him
    #2 Then the next thing I know he doubled back toward him cus – the police had his gun drawn already on him –

    [there is dispute here whether he says “doubled back” or “coming back.”]
    #1. Oh, the police got his gun
    #2 The police kept dumpin on him, and I’m thinking the police kept missing – he like – be like – but he kept coming toward him
    #2 Police fired shots – the next thing I know – the police was missing
    #1 The Police?
    #2 The Police shot him
    #1 Police?
    #2 The next thing I know … I’m thinking … the dude started running … (garbled something about “he took it from him”)

    And then there is this account from a friend of the officer, Darren Wilson, describing the event based on what the officer involved told him:

    Well, then Michael takes off and gets to be about 35 feet away. And, Darren’s first protocol is to pursue. So, he stands up and yells, “Freeze!” Michael and his friend turn around. And Michael taunts him… And then all the sudden he just started bumrushing him. He just started coming at him full speed. And, so he just started shooting. And, he just kept coming. And, so he really thinks he was on something.”

    For those that struggle with reading comprehension, the two accounts match. You’d think that this would turn the riots off, since what they’re rioting about is wrong. This wasn’t racial, nor was it about excessive force, but in Obama’s America we have to have racial angst– it’s how the Dems get them in the voters booth…

    But while Ferguson burns, Obama is getting in plenty of rounds of golf. It took Obama seven minutes to hit the links after his last presser on Ferguson. Seven minutes. Wow. His lack of action on this confirms that he actually wants the riots to continue, he needs the riots to continue, because heaven forbid the black man ever actually look at who has really hurt him over the last few years…

    Oh, and has anyone mentioned MG Greene? Beautiful service with full military honors for the first general killed in combat since the Vietnam War. Obama? Golfing through the whole thing. In fact, not a single person from the Administration showed. The Army Chief of Staff, Gen Odierno, presented the flag to the family.

    Can you guys imagine the scathing post R would have up ridiculing, lambasting, and deriding Bush if he had skipped a funeral like this for a round of golf? Oh. Dear. Lord. Or imagine if Bush played A round, let alone the daily, continuous rounds of Obama, during race riots anywhere?

    See, R thinks that his making a couple jabs at Sharpton or Jackson in a junk post talking about nothing suffices and equates his criticism of Bush. But it doesn’t. Your silence equates acceptance. Hiding a snipe, buried deep in the thread of some obtuse invitation to “talk amongst yourselves” just doesn’t count.

  145. Or, we could agree on a division of labor: I won’t talk about computer programing, man-crushes, and ankle-grabbing, and you don’t talk about what, when, or how to apply “devastating force”…

    Cute. FWIW I was going to reference your comment on ROE but I just neglected to before hitting “reply”.

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