Too Late for Reparations, Mr. Coates

The cover story of the latest edition of The Atlantic has the liberal media a buzz. The essay by Ta-Nehisi Coates is entitled “The Case for Reparations”. Before reading the essay I watched Mr. Coates discuss his piece on MSNBC and Bill Moyers PBS show. I disagree with one of his points in particular and his broader thesis in general though his approach is novel and worth discussing.

A specific point made by Coates with which I strongly disagree concerns the modern day black man’s role in his own victimization. Coates criticizes Philadelphia’s mayor, Michael Nutter for telling black men to pull up their pants and look respectable. Coates claims that no amount of respectability will win the black man respect. I hope I am just misunderstanding him because this idea is total nonsense. There are standards of conduct that transcend race. Blacks should not be exempt from these standards by hiding behind “culture”. There is nothing cultural about pants hanging off your ass. It’s ignorant.

Since Coates doesn’t predicate his argument on the lack of black complicity in their own plight, the above criticism might be a nitpick. Looking at the broader theme my problem is one of timing. It seems to me that reparations should be temporally proximate to the harm done while some perpetrators and victims are still alive. Otherwise we are punishing folks who haven’t done anything to anybody. A quick look at some notable reparations supports my timing concern.

First let’s take Native Americans off the table because the lands of the tribes are considered “nations” and our arrangements are treaties. These arrangements govern ongoing relations and don’t fall into a short term reparations category. Reparations from West Germany to Israel commenced in 1952, within the decade following WWII. Reparations from the U.S. to Japanese citizens wrongfully detained started as early as 1948, only three years after the war. (These reparations programs lasted a bit longer going all the way into the 80’s.)

Even the most recent egregious offenses described by Coates begin to abate in the 1960’s, making reparations a half century later punitive to many innocents. So while I oppose reparations for blacks, I still think Coates’ approach merits discussion.

1. Rather than focus on human suffering, Coates concentrates on financial robbery. Blacks propped up an entire Southern economy with zero compensation. Post-slavery, they had no legal rights to property which could be (and was) regularly taken from them. Into the mid 20th century, they were hoodwinked in con artist real estate deals. They were zoned out of any possibility of integrated neighborhoods. By default, parts of the New Deal, such as Social Security, left them out in the cold. In short, the American power structure, over and over again, conspired to disenfranchise them and render them impotent. Hence Coates builds his case for reparations on purely monetary grounds, taking much of the subjective emotional content out of the discussion.

2. Coates walks a fine line between putting the reparations burden on whites as opposed to Americans. This is even more evident in his interviews about the article. He even states that as a taxpayer he would bear some of the burden. But he seems to be more about discussion than actual Benjamins. Most importantly he wants an American discussion, not a white vs black discussion.

3. This is where I find his argument most compelling. Yes, we talk about race a lot. However, we usually talk about specific current grievances prompted by some particular incident. We don’t often talk about our national conscience on a grander scale that encompasses the totality of our wrong doing. Liberals frown at the Confederate flag but we don’t view it with adequate shame. The Confederacy was not a legitimate short-lived nation. It was a criminal rogue state. It was a pox upon our country. Yet, we tolerate a certain nostalgia about it. A perfect example was a visit I made to Atlanta many years ago. The hotel TV tourist channel advertised tours of nearby plantations with not a hint of the degradation that went on there. I think Coates would agree with me that a far more satisfying alternative to financial reparations would be to have all these plantations declared memorials to the men and women abused there, sort of a black holocaust museum. How about Congress issuing a proclamation officially condemning the Confederate States of America as a rogue state and sponsor of terrorism? Let’s not limit our truth telling to the South. The North was not much better. Our national apology should reach back to the framers who had a chance to get this new democracy off to a clean start and passed.

These are just a couple of ideas that might see the light of day if Congress debated reparations. Beyond any remuneration, Coates is hoping for a national coming to grips with our shameful past and an official public accounting to the world of our wrongdoing. This would start with our asking forgiveness for what we have done before taking any further pride in how far we have come.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

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425 thoughts on “Too Late for Reparations, Mr. Coates

  1. Rutherford –

    I think you are well-motivated, but the most superficial examination of this concept of “reparations” reveals it to be so full of holes to not warrant consideration. I like you, as does everyone here, but it is clear to me that you are never going to have real success in life until you offload that “victim” POV.

    rgds: Coates. Let’s call him, “Dave” – a fine European name, since that is really his culture – like all of us – European.

    rgds: “reparations” Firstly, things are tough all over. Where do you start, and where do you end? Reparations for American Indians? How about Spain providing reparations to the Central American Indians for the depredations of Cortez? Modern Germany to modern Israel? (But many of those wronged do not LIVE in Israel! How do you handle that?) The Romans should make reparations to the “descendants” of Boadicea? But then, on the same land, what about the later British reparations to Scotland because of the atrocities – and near destruction of their culture – following the Battle of Culloden? How do we decide who is eligible for “reparations”– based on things people did, as you say, to people they didn’t even know? You are opening up a can of worms that has no end.

    And while your country is wrestling with such nonsense, the rest of the world is passing you by.

    Instead of “reparations,” wouldn’t black folks be better off putting that kind of energy into dealing with REAL problems that they have NOW, rather than manufacturing a new way to shake down white folks based on their neverending guilt? How about teaching their little girls to keep their legs together, or at least get on the Pill? Or teach their young men that there is more to life than $250 shoes or a piece of pussy? That might bear some REAL fruit for your “people.”

    Secondly, rgds: US south. You never judge history by current standards. That is sophomore-level mistake, and there’s no need to say more. You know better.

    Thirdly, rgds: “Read Coates article before commenting. Otherwise you’re just talking out of your ass.” I would say to you, spend some time in the US south before commenting, like I did when I was in training. Texas, for example – the last place in your country that still believes in the entrepreneurial animal spirits. Otherwise, you are talking out your arse.

  2. I read the article and can again when we get home. We subscribe to Atlantic. I already know much of the history. My grand parents were northerners who lived in North Carolina for over ten years. They befriended former slaves who came in through the front door instead of the back door as was customary. My great grand father and other relatives fought for the Union in the Civil War.

    My family owes no reparations.

    The people who deserved reparations are all dead.

    Former black slave owners should owe reparations if whites do. We don’t hear about them very often.

    Swedes shipped some Sami people to their colony as slaves and later they sent some to the British.

    And while we are on the subject, what about German-Americans who other Americans tried to destroy, especially during WW11. What of the Greeks who suffered at the hands of the Irish and other groups. Life was no bed of roses for Irish or Italians either. Al Capone said he turned to crime because of discrimination directed toward him,.The Poles had their own problems.

    The Japanese were also discriminated against Yes we made gestures after putting them in internment camps, but the bigotry went much further,.Don’t we owe them reparations too?

    What of the Lakota Sioux who took the Black Hills from another tribe? Don’t they owe that tribe something? Whites took the Black Hills from the Sioux after gold was discovered.

    An Indian tribe across the river wanted to expand to build a casino on the Iowa side of the river. They sued to take farm land which had been part of the Missouri during the disputed time and they won, Don’t the farmers who lost their land deserve compensation?
    What of our family and neighbors who paid taxes on over 600 acres of land to have it stolen by the state for environmental reasons?

    An apology sounds nice, but again, what about amends to the groups I mentioned and more? This is really trivial, but people like me suffered discrimination because we had served in the military. Don’t we deserve an apology, not from the government but from liberals who actually did the deed? “You don’t belong here you fascist. We’ll get rid of you!”

    When you apologize to me for what you didn’t do, I will apologize to you for what I didn’t do. Muffy’s earlier comment about residual pain rings true. That article makes me hate liberals even more. I suspect blacks and others who suffered discrimination secretly and sometimes openly hate the rest of us if not themselves. It fits the paper I wrote,

  3. In short, the American power structure, over and over again, conspired to disenfranchise them and render them impotent.

    I think this applies to more than just blacks, really to all those not on the ‘inside’. I haven’t read the Atlantic article yet, maybe when I get back in this afternoon. But the quote made me chuckle, only because it reminded me of an old joke, definitely racial, but funny. I’m sure you’ve all heard it… When the doc tells the old black man he’s impotent so he goes out and buys a new suit, claiming, “If I’s gonna be impotent, I’s gonna look impotent.”

    I guess it isn’t proper to share such in our post-racial nation. It isn’t politically correct. Probably because I was exposed to Little Black Sambo as a kid. 😀

  4. I once again point to Asians who have immigrated to America, poor, uneducated, in much dire straights than blacks of the last 150 years found themselves.

    And Asians earned the American dream. Even excelled. I tip my hat to them.

    The problems with Black America is immoral Black America – most ingrates and perpetual victims, wanting to be coddled instead of making something of themselves.

    It’s not complicated. Black family structures have all but disintegrated, children being raised by children, amoral, fixated on victimhood instead of accomplishment and the prism of race, blind to their own insidious bigotry and hate.

    It has all but destroyed them. And they are without excuse and I believe where there was once empathy and a willingness to help, that has been replaced by a silent majority of indifference and many times scorn.

  5. Not to change subjects, but as we enter our sixth recovery summer led by Baghdad Bob Obama and his millions of flunky lemmings….

    Last month, when the Bureau of Economic Analysis announced that gross domestic product had grown at a lead-footed rate of 0.1 percent in the first quarter, economic analysts could focus on two pillars of hope. The first was that the winter weather was unusually awful, and first-quarter growth probably reflected that. And the second? This was a very preliminary number, and it seemed reasonable to think that it might be revised upward.

    The operative word is “seemed.” Now the BEA has provided its first revision, and things only get more dismal: The economy actually contracted in the first quarter instead of just lying down on the sofa and feeling all mopey and sad. Key areas of decline were exports, inventories and nonresidential fixed investment. In other words, whatever happened was happening on the business side. . . .

    It has been six years since the financial crisis. Federal government spending is still around 21 percent of GDP, up from 19 percent in 2007, and the Federal Reserve still has a very expansive monetary policy. Under those circumstances, a quarter of negative growth is pretty unsettling.

    The most recent jobs numbers are more encouraging — but not all that stellar this far away from the crash. Six years in, employment is barely back to where it was, which means that it hasn’t even kept pace with population growth.

    Reparations? How about pulling their own weight and getting off the federal dole first?

  6. “There is nothing cultural about pants hanging off your ass. It’s ignorant.”

    No. It’s deliberately anti-social. Nothing ignorant about it.

    “Beyond any remuneration, Coates is hoping for a national coming to grips with our shameful past and an official public accounting to the world of our wrongdoing.”

    An accounting to the world for our shameful past? Only a lib could say something that misguided.

    Since my family wasn’t here for the “shameful past,” am I supposed to owe blacks something under Coates’ theory? Can we expect a set off for all that the black community has wrought?

    More importantly, why do we need this discussion? The focus on this is a manufactured distraction from your liberal media outlets. We got mighty big fish to fry and this theoretical though experiment ain’t one of them.

  7. Hah! @ Tigre’s #8. Any day now 🙂

    “An accounting to the world for our shameful past? Only a lib could say something that misguided.”

    I also thought this a bit much.

    Ultimately I liked this article though I disagree with it.

  8. Rutherford has a gift for total focus on the irrelevant while only seeing what he wants to see…it’s a form of cognitive dissonance with the occasional epiphany of waking up to reality when the clock runs out. Unfortunately, the epiphany lasts for milliseconds, returning him back to lemming stupor.

    How many times have we witnessed Rutherford pen a pretty good post critical of past support, almost an apology, only to spend the entire rest of the thread defending that which he criticized in the post? 😈

  9. It’s official. I’m suing the fuck out of Russia.

    Every miserable Cossack is going give me 15 bucks.

    Perhaps one giant class action suit against all WASPS and Russians

    Yeah that’s the ticket. Tex owes me 80 bucks.

  10. Coates claims that no amount of respectability will win the black man respect.
    You’re not nitpicking. Coates is of the school at best of DuBois as opposed to Washington and that is where the rub is. Even people in his piece show a consciousness to the gang mentality riff raff that no US ethnic element has been without.

  11. Tex owes me 80 bucks.

    I don’t owe your Poles a shade over 75. Besides, I ain’t paying for an additional 1/3 person. Now you’re sounding Black.

  12. I’m glad I could add to that Not Working Age group. 😛 Consider it my personal sacrifice to make ‘The One’ look even monumentally inept. I noticed the rats are leaving the sinking ship.

    Here’s my take on Eric Shinseki resigning – convenient scapegoat for systemic failure. I’m tickled that feckless limp dick Jay Carney went down, though.

    Rutherford, I type a resume yesterday. Fortunately, it wasn’t mine. It was my nephew’s. It’s amazing the kind of bullshit buzzwords I can come up with when it’s not relevant to me.

    I’m afraid my nephew, great kid and nice looking young man, is going to slog a long road and probably never get ahead. But he’s got one flowery resume to accompany him. Upon graduation, he got to drive a forklift and manage a warehouse.

    That’s what a four year degree gets you anymore.

  13. The closest group our area has to Polish people are Bohemians and Slovacians. There are no Wozniaks or Zielinskis here. We have Smiths, Vanderhoovens, Petersons, and McPhersons. Therefore you will have to prove we did anything bad from a distance. We could split the difference.

    Liberals don’t have much to brag about. They are trying to distract us with bright shiny objects.

  14. Rutherford,

    You in mourning over the loss of Baghdad Jay like you were over Mayo Devilou? 😐

    Or should I invoke the 24 hour rule for that major loss too?

  15. Parker not only do I doubt you read Coates article, I wonder if you read mine. All your points about ancient Romans, etc speaks precisely to why I said I don’t ultimately support financial reparations.

    Financial reparations become a moral quagmire when all the perps and their direct victims have long since died.

  16. What ever happened with the federal apologies issued in “08 and ’09?

    I don’t care much for declaring all of the southern plantations “slavery memorials.” The plantations didn’t exist for the sole purpose of enslaving africans and african americans. You may be able to make the argument that if not for slavery there would be no southern plantations but that’s not a no-brainer either. I could see a memorial set up on the grounds within the plantation acreage where the slave quarters once stood – that would be very fitting. But that should be taken up by you Rutherford. Why isn’t Russell Simmons on that?

    Don’t worry, women won’t demand a memorial commemorating their suffering once they see yours. (Conservative women won’t anyway.)

    I take no exception to a national slavery memorial but don’t forget that congress opted instead for a national museum as part of the Smithsonian and it’s on track for completion next year. (The collection is impressive.)

    “Liberals frown at the Confederate flag but we don’t view it with adequate shame.”

    I think the current overwhelmingly negative sentiments regarding the confederate flag are perhaps more appropriately weighted than is the desire for “more shame.”

  17. That Pelosi chihuahua is worse than McCain always rushing to lay blame on the other guy.

    Obama was on the senate veterans’ affairs committee too, and famously criticized Bush for ignoring “deplorable conditions at some VA hospitals” etc. I’d say Obama fucked up too Nance.

    I loathe that woman.

  18. “Financial reparations become a moral quagmire”

    Yawn. How ballsy of you, mayn.

    Looking forward to the next blog on why you think Commodore 64’s slow disk access is a disappointment, mayn.

  19. That was a long read and I can’t argue with the facts, but the last thing we need is congress to debate the country’s past and what fair compensation (if any) needs to be doled out to certain citizens based on race. They can’t keep track of what they are supposed to be doing there to begin with. And who’s going after the banksters? Doesn’t seem to be on the agenda. Fining them is just part of their cost of doing business. They pass that ‘savings’ on to the customer.

  20. Hate to break it to you Tex. tell your nephew no resume is worth shit nowadays. If you really want to “help” him, make a few phone calls. But I have a sinking feeling you burned your bridges behind you.

  21. I love how Rabbit and Tigre have nothing but snark and nothing intelligent to add.

    Did either of you read the Coates essay before mouthing off? Hey Rabbit do your homework maaaan.

    I’ve got more for Tigre concerning his dumbass comment when I can get my hands on the real WordPress app on my puter.

    Right now I’m gonna go read my Inc. Magazine while I wait for more miserable motorists.

  22. Alfie thanks for the comment. I’m not familiar with the work of Dubois but I will say I was very disappointed with this line of thought from Coates. Not only does it undercut his argument, it’s also pure bullshit. I watched him last week talk to two white journalists who clearly had a lot of respect for him. His argument is an insult to them.

  23. I did read some of that Coates article, Rutherford. As much as I could stomach, because once again I find it the lowest form of grievance hustling with the same tired straw men trying to typify a few 70 year old examples as representative of today.

    Let me explain why with three small examples.

    The thread is as old as black politics itself. It is also wrong. The kind of trenchant racism to which black people have persistently been subjected can never be defeated by making its victims more respectable. The essence of American racism is disrespect. And in the wake of the grim numbers, we see the grim inheritance.

    Do you see what this author did here? (1) The only racism is sees are against blacks even if the preceding demand to act respectful (acting white to Coates) was made by another black; (2) Coates never explains why Black America is segregated but other minority demographics either generally aren’t or have no complaint when they are; (3) Coates attempts to make a broad excuse for juvenile and rebellious ubiquitous behavior by justifying it through historical grievance.

    The entire article is like this – at least the part I read.

    In the contest of upward mobility, Barack and Michelle Obama have won. But they’ve won by being twice as good—and enduring twice as much.

    Really? Show me how, show me where. That’s so disgustingly putrid, inaccurate, and disingenuous, I quit reading. Both have been at the very least, raised comfortably.

    For the past 25 years, Congressman John Conyers Jr., who represents the Detroit area, has marked every session of Congress by introducing a bill calling for a congressional study of slavery and its lingering effects as well as recommendations for “appropriate remedies.”

    No city in America better represents the inability or refusal of Black America to assimilate into a superior culture. Detroit has proven itself incapable to manage themselves, sustain themselves, govern themselves. What is the melanin efficacy of the skin color of Detroit, Rutherford?

    Here’s a question you need to ask yourself. Why is it other demographics do not want to associate with black neighborhoods either? It’s just not wealth that separates demographic. It’s just not ‘Caucasians’ that wish to be separated. It’s Latinos, and Asians, and “Native-American” Indians, and and and…

    It is possible that people prefer to simply be with ‘their own kind?’ And another question you ought to be asking yourself is why do these white race pimps from the Left still choose to live in predominantly white neighborhoods?

    Why does their chosen life not match their grand rhetoric on the public stage if all cultures of equal value?

  24. WEB Dubois and Booker T. Washington operated around the turn of the twentieth century. Simply put, WEB advocated a separatist strategy of confrontation to improve the Blacks’ lot. Booker preached self help, accomodation, racial solidarity, and campaigning in a kinder, gentler way. He preached accepting some discrimination as they advanced through the economy and society through their own efforts. Their being integrated into all levels of society would let them become fully integrated as citizens,

    WEB. said Washington’s strategy would only perpetuate White oppression, He advocated civil rights demonstrations and politics. He helped organize the NAACP and believed social change would come through the “talented tenth” an elite group of college educated blacks. This small group of exceptional men would guide the lower orders away from their destructive ways.

    I like Tex’s comment.

    Here is another that encapsulates Coat’s views. “Bad Day” Danial Powers.

    “Sometimes the system goes on the blink and the whole thing turns out wrong…So where is the passion when you need it the most… Cause you had a bad day.”

  25. Yes, people prefer to be with their own kind.That includes white people. They tend to settle in ethnic communities which offer cultural similarities. Asians do too. Blacks are probably no different.

  26. Great moments by Leftist Media

    Does The Government Run Health Care Better?

    If you ordered America’s different health systems worst-functioning to best, it would look like this: individual insurance market, employer-based insurance market, Medicare, Veterans Health Administration.” ~ Ezra Klein in 2009

    Still think Leftists are the smartest people in the room, Rutherford? I hate to keep piling on only you, but apparently Flake and the mendacious Lurker have once again gone back under rock, Name redacted “Graychin” Name redacted is still trying to find his war medals, and Densico from Los Vegas is still scavenging for an Obama success.

  27. James, reading your comment reminds me of this:

    There is a class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs-partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs. ~ Booker T. Washington, 1911

  28. Booker T. Washington was a smart man, wasn’t he Tex?

    Do you remember Booker T. and the MGs? Green Onions was one of their big hits.

    A couple of years ago, I researched One Direction videos for an article in our local news paper. Some Dutch, French, and Arab students in an English language school near Cannes, France made creative videos and dreamed of stardom on France has Talent. They weren’t good enough.

    They are all rich, and I checked in after a year to see how they were doing. Someone asked what one of the girls thinks of Hollande.

    She replied “Eww, even the people who voted for him are starting to hate him” Someone replied, “but you have to pay taxes to maintain streets and other things. Taxes are low in my country and streets are bad.”

    The girl wrote “you should move to France where you work very hard and the government takes all of your money. It is hard to find a job. Everything is falling apart. There is no future for me here.” “Where do you want to go?” “The US, maybe with my brother in Miami.”

    “First, they need to get rid of Obama.”

    Consider the implications. All of the liberal guests to this blog are less aware of reality than a seventeen-year old French girl. They are silent because they have nothing. Their world view is crumbling around them. and they are too yellow to admit it or defend the indefensible.

    At least Coats is brave enough to defend his views. The would be allies here, are filthy cowards who desert Rutherford when he needs them. I disagree with Rutherford, but he and even Coats are individually worth scores of the human refuse who are a disease turning our nation into rubbish.

    A teenaged French girl in a face to face debate would expose them for the deluded fools that they are. No wonder they are hiding from us.

  29. I don’t think Bo Bo is the source of the problem. He’s just a frontman. The whole system is corrupt and he’s just what they needed at the time to corral the majority. Quite successfully I might add. How can you believe anything the mainstream media puts out? They are now all shills for our lying overlords. Look to recent events, while we still can. What was the news telling us about this CO landslide event? You reap what you sow, and America’s been sowing discord for some time, even as Mr. Coates’ article infers.

  30. “Did either of you read the Coates essay before mouthing off?”

    I saw your Chrissy Hayes show that gave birth to this. Your criticism is of Coates is of course not original.

    I don’t know I’ll read. There’s never any meaningful dialogue in response to 99% of what anyone says here and the topic is not of interest. I’m still waiting for you to read, think and respond to things I posted 2 years ago.

    But I’ll see if others that will engage here bite and make the topic interesting to discuss.

  31. “I saw your Chrissy Hayes show that gave birth to this. Your criticism is of Coates is of course not original.”

    lol…like clock work.

    Rutherford enjoys the sniff of smoke bombs. There is no way he will ever question their timing. I particularly enjoy him acting “objective” as he sits up straight and questions the dumb dumb.

    If I’m forced to give black people more free money in the form of a punishment for slavery a century and a half ago, I should at least be able to represent my family as the one and only slave owner. I got dibs on Rutherford. Don’t worry…..you won’t work on my 10 foot by 5 foot plantation of tomatoes and cucumber plants. I’m just going to have you blow on a majestic kazoo to announce my royal entrance every time I walk into a room in my modest ranch.

    Pretty fucking dumb comment by me……You bring out the best in me Rutherford.

  32. I should at least be able to represent my family as the one and only slave owner. I got dibs on Rutherford.

    LOL! Not me, man. I at least want one that can pick weeds and mow the lawn. 😈

  33. I don’t need no friken slave. I’ve got two children and their spouses to do the heavy lifting if I need it. Besides, there is upkeep to consider.

    I mentioned that French girl earlier. Here is more.

    “I live in Germany, and the taxes here are over 50% as well.”

    The French girl replied “No place has higher taxes than france. and that a fact. What do ur parents think about this?”

    “Taxes in Franc are approx 75% for people that earn more than a million a year, not fair…” “exactly”

    “Yeah, I heard that Holland tried to make even higher taxes in France…like a punishment for success. Well, my parents accept it, we have to”

    “Loxembourg” “oui?”

    “Sure government needs taxes to survive, but is it really necessary to ask for more than half of your income? Do you even know the percentage of tax france demands? I’m curious… what country are u from?

    “Taxes are important” “are u telling me you like to give more than half of what you earn to the government just because you work your ass off and become successful?”

    “What can you do about it anyways? Put your money in a bank account in Switzerland…? “How about just move country? Which brings me back to the reason why I don’t want to live in france when I’m older because there is no future. Everyone is getting the fk out.”

    “What do you mean there is no future there?” “apart from the festival and the summer, Cannes is dead. I don’t see any future for me there work wise, and u pay way too many taxes in France. But as I said i love Cannes and it will always be my home.”

    “Why don’t you want to stay in Cannes? It is the best place.”

    “It will always be home, but there is no future there.”

    “you could go to monaco!” “Yeah, but I’ve rather go to the US.”

    I hope rabbit has at least a few students like these in his classes. They are actually paying attention. Reading their comments brightened my mood, so I decided to share them,

  34. “I hope rabbit has at least a few students like these in his classes.”

    One comes to mind in particular. Unfortunately, I went to his memorial last night thanks to fucked up cancer.

  35. “I don’t need no friken slave. I’ve got two children and their spouses to do the heavy lifting if I need it. Besides, there is upkeep to consider.”

    😆 😆 😆

  36. I’m addicted to getting the shower scalding hot and putting it on my itchy psoriasis. I know this isn’t good but its euphoric as hell.

    Which brings me to my question. The pleasure derived from itching doesn’t seem to make any sense. I get why sugar tastes good. Why fire hurts. What good does itching bring? Seems only negative…chance of infection etc.

  37. I think Rutherford deserves a pass on this one for sure regards what did did not put it on his radar. None of us are without the influence of the media swirls we mingle in.
    I put it to the room that the American Left is about to go on a pre- electoral literary tear. Hillary has her book coming with 30 something pages on Benghazi with the plot being the GOP sucks. I think Coates piece will soon be joined on the altar with pieces from others on a bevy of issues. Hell it lasted but a blink but Picketty [sp?] wealth inequality tome splashed then drowned but the Left was there to get started.
    2016 is here right now fellows and we better get right about it stat!

  38. Tex, a sincere thanks for actually taking Coates’ essay apart a bit. All of you will find I won’t resort to “dumbass” and other insults if I see evidence you’re willing to talk about the essay.

    Tex I do NOT like the extent to which Coates absolves blacks of any responsibility. I’ve said that. I mostly agree with your point about the Obama’s but even that merits a deeper dive that I’ll do later.

    After a 50 hour workweek I slept most of today away. 😦

  39. “I put it to the room that the American Left is about to go on a pre- electoral literary tear.”

    Of course it is. That’s why R’s posts are looking like MSNBC book of the month club.

    Sorry Alfie. I know you mean well and work harder than anyone here to be fair — but no passes from me. There’s plenty going that should be on the radar but isn’t because it can’t be bent towards left wing success on anything of import. To shout “until you’ve read it shut the fuck up” is the height of hypocrisy coming from our venerable blog host. I do not feel any constraint in pointing that out.

    If the latest tragedy in UCSB had the right fact patterns, it would be offered as more proof that the right is to blame for all acts of aggression committed by white males. Instead we got the topic you cringed over in the last post as inviting shallow, heated and unproductive discourse (if I understood your objection to it).

    If R would like to educate or persuade with is understanding or point of view, I’m all ears. However, there’s plenty that’s been placed on the table only to rot (most recently please to address the platitudes offer that IRS/Benghazi/Selective law enforcement are “nothing burgers.” Originality rather than repetition would have gone a long way.

    Now what’s that bitch Palin up to?

  40. Another valid point made by Tex and James (so far, I have more comments to read): blacks, just like everyone else, self segregate to some degree. No argument there.

  41. Damn you boys have inspired me to do more reading up on Booker and WEB. I’ve heard of both of them of course but know nothing about their views.

  42. Tigre I think you are misplacing your angst. Rutherford is allowed to publish whatever he desires not what moves his ironically majority conservative readership.
    I don’t think Rutherford is totally driven by MSNBC,NYT,LAT headlines. Likewise I don’t think you are fueled solely by Breitbart,National Review or Fox.

  43. Quite simply I would love a dialog on any and all levels regards race relations.This of course would require a review of racism in the USA.
    I hate hyphens and alienation,especially since I view them as an evil control measure dumped upon the unthinking masses.
    That said if you think history has zero impact on behaviors today I don’t know how good a conversation it’s gonna be.

  44. I don’t feel comfortable with my insights on the rooms makeup other than to say there are three I am very sure saw a lot of the same sights growing up. Rutherford,Rabbit and me.
    That said I have no doubt all of us have a boat load of experiences that have made us what we are. Don’t really know where I was going with that but I’m hitting post anyway

  45. I’m going to sound like a pretentious asshole here….but you aren’t even familiar with Booker T and W.E.B.?

    That’s rudimentary black history stuff there.

    The classic compare and contrast essay.

    For someone who likes the fricken topic so much….you sure are pretty thin.

  46. Alfie, you lost me or my point. But so be it. Rutherford may of course say whatever the fuck he wants on his own blog.

    And as I said, I viewed the Hayes’ show so I am not unfamaliar with subject or viewpoint.

    And Rutherford may use whatever criterion he’d like in deciding what and whom he’ll respond to and at what level.

    I’m not so stupid that I don’t understand that.

    I look forward to your thoughts on whatever you’re interested in offering too, including the sights you were referring to for whatever purpose you were offering them.

  47. Why have I started to scratch my foot?

    56, alfie,I agree, all history, including our familial pasts has a profound effect on us. I am more familiar with ethnic whites, of course, so here is my example.

    A Fin vloged that she believes the Finish language makes Fins shy and unwilling to express emotions. Maybe so, but I think there is more to it. I live a region with Scandinavian, German, Dutch, Irish and British heritage. We tend not to express strong public emotions or affection, and hugging is infrequent. I believe the culture was transplanted to America.

    This is in stark contrast to Italians and Hispanics I know.

    I’d like to know if Blacks from different parts of Africa display similar attitudinal differences. What about the West Indies?

  48. Huck, you caused me to do some more Googling.

    When I say the feeling is euphoric…I mean it.

    It turns out people report a down right orgasmic sensation from hot water seemingly unique to the itch caused by exema (sic) and psoriasis.

    By orgasmic I don’t mean in a sexual way. I mean it rivals sex in pleasure. Feels so fucking good!

  49. “I’d like to know if Blacks from different parts of Africa display similar attitudinal differences”

    I know its common among many peoples in West Africa for two men to walk holding hands as public sign of friendship.

  50. Today, Obama clearly broke the law and I believe we now have indisputable grounds for real impeachment.

    In exchange for a U.S. captive, five of the most dangerous Taliban commanders in U.S. custody were released – without the notification of Congress. Our laws clearly state the administration must notify Congress before any transfers from Guantanamo are carried out..

    If Obama doesn’t have to follow the law, then none of us do…and it time millions of Americans start acting like that.

  51. I was baffled when I first heard this. I couldn’t believe we would negotiate this way.

    Then I find out that there has always been a controversy over this soldier in the first place. Possibly AWOL. I have no idea if that’s true.

    But damn……talk about a new incentive to kidnap Americans.

    And like Tex says…..Obama knowingly defied a law because he didn’t like it.

    I haven’t read enough on this whole thing yet.

    Pretty odd stuff.

    Watch your back expatriates and servicemen overseas. Its now officially open season.

  52. “I saw your Chrissy Hayes show that gave birth to this. Your criticism is of Coates is of course not original.”

    My wife told me about the Coates article before I knew about the Chris Hayes interview. In fact my wife told me Moyers interviewed him. I swear the constant “mindless MSNBC watcher” meme is really enraging, Tigre and on a bad day I really want to punch you square in the face.

    As for “originality” if you think your constant snark is original then you’re terribly deluded. You’re not thinking the Coates essay will bore you. You’re too fucking lazy to put in the effort. Put together an example of your original insights and I promise I’ll publish it as a guest post.

    As often as I think Gorilla is full of it, he at least takes the time to put his thoughts to virtual paper.

    More later.

  53. Yeah Rabbit, mouthing off about slavery. If you READ the fucking article you’d know slavery is the least of it. Do you know what redlining is, dumbass? Neither did I UNTIL I READ THE ARTICLE.

    LOL the lawyer and the teacher come up ignorant and full of frat boy swagger and the retiree and the pool builder actually do the homework and engage intelligently.

  54. “That said if you think history has zero impact on behaviors today I don’t know how good a conversation it’s gonna be.”

    Alfie it was just this attitude from you in the previous thread that partly inspired me to write this post. Your similarly smart perspective on Benghazi tells me you’re not knee-jerk. I feel with you as a reader, at least I’ll get a fair hearing.

    Thank you for that.

  55. “For someone who likes the fricken topic so much….you sure are pretty thin.”

    On this you have a point. I am terribly poorly read and the older I get the more embarrassing it is. One of my goals by end of year is to take an online course on comparative political philosophy, if I can find one.

  56. “I’d like to know if Blacks from different parts of Africa display similar attitudinal differences. What about the West Indies?”

    James this could be a thread unto itself. From what I was raised to believe, West Indians view themselves above the average American black man. So much so, my father would not tell people his parents were from Barbados because he didn’t want people to think he was “putting on airs”.

    On a similar note I have argued that James Clyburn with a far stronger governmental resume than Barack Obama could NEVER have been elected President. The only reason Obama got elected is he is exotic. Drop a slave in his family tree and he would have been toast.

  57. I have a recurring itchy rash on my right thigh and scratching it feels so good I’ve been known to audibly grown with pleasure. LOL sometime I worry my wife thinks I’m masturbating in the bathroom when I’m actually just scratching the itch.

  58. Now to Tigre’s first comment (you know the guy I always ignore):

    “There is nothing cultural about pants hanging off your ass. It’s ignorant.”

    No. It’s deliberately anti-social. Nothing ignorant about it.

    Do you go out of your way to be contrary? This statement, which 95% of folks would agree with, you had to find some nitpick with. Do you think nose-rings are “anti-social”? Did you find that dumb duo from a couple of decades ago, Criss/Cross who wore their pants backwards, “anti-social”?

    Maybe you don’t know what I mean by ignorant? I did not mean it in the sense of lack-of-education ignorance. I meant it in the sense of low class ignorance. I actually thought one of the few things we would agree on is that a good deal of low class behavior in the “black community” gets passed off as culture — rap music being the biggest perpetrator.

    Are you suggesting this stupid fashion statement is the black man’s way of telling whites to fuck themselves? In what way is it “anti-social”?

    Since my family wasn’t here for the “shameful past,” am I supposed to owe blacks something under Coates’ theory? Can we expect a set off for all that the black community has wrought?

    More evidence that you not only skipped Coates’ essay, you skipped my piece too. What did I say was my solitary reason for OPPOSING financial reparations? I said it was not fair for you and your family who haven’t done a damn thing to hurt any black man to have to pay for a past generation’s wrong doing.

    More importantly, why do we need this discussion? The focus on this is a manufactured distraction from your liberal media outlets. We got mighty big fish to fry and this theoretical though experiment ain’t one of them.

    Entire fields of study are devoted to social justice. I write one article about it and you vomit? If it makes you feel better, Coates’ essay was easily drowned out by the VA scandal — even in the liberal media outlets.

    What Coates brought to the table that I felt was new was the focus on the financial losses of a minority over our history. As “Chrissy” Hayes pointed out, we usually talk about our history with blacks with a focus on slavery and the human cruelty that went with it. Race gets in the news nowadays when there is some perceived violence against a black or a racial slur, or some such thing as that. Ta-Nehisi Coates turns the focus to America “plundering” from blacks for generations — long after slavery. He’d like America to have that dollars-and-cents conversation and I for one think THAT is interesting.

  59. One interesting thing buried in the Coates essay if you read it carefully is an admission by one of his protagonists that he partly blamed himself for the way he was treated when he moved to the Chicago suburbs. To paraphrase: “I got suckered in Mississippi and then was too stupid to see I was getting suckered again when I moved North.” A little welcome introspection on his part — which should not absolve the bastards who took advantage of him with a “contract house” real estate deal.

  60. This short anecdote is particularly for Tigre who thinks my brain goes numb until I turn on MSNBC and fuel all my thoughts there.

    I was thinking Thursday evening “who would be a good replacement for Shinseki?” My answer: Mitt Romney, well known as the turn-around guy. A bi-partisan choice for Obama.

    Friday afternoon I get up from my day’s sleep and the first thing my wife asks me is “hey who do you think should replace Shinseki?” I respond “Mitt Romney” and her jaw drops. Why? Because Friday morning that very idea was discussed on Morning Joe.

    Here is a novel thought Tigre. Folks with similar political outlooks often come up with the same shit. I honestly don’t believe you spend a second of your day watching Fox News but I could find 95% of what you say on a typical night of Fox prime time. What cracks me up is you watch more MSNBC than Fox — and more MSNBC than I do. 😆

  61. “Here’s a fucking problem worthy of discussion:

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/1-8-american-men-between-ages-25-54-are-not-working_793938.html

    Hear! Hear! Let’s talk about – and try to help – people who are trying to help themselves. Why wast time on those wallowing in self-pity, standing with their hands out for alms? To quote your Fields, it’s a waste of time and annoys the pig.

    re: “read the article.” Most of us can skim a story of this length from beginning to end and get the gist within fifteen seconds. This one was easy: Same shit, different day. Waste of time. Next topic. I would wager that nobody – other than those who have bought into the professional victimhood meme – could stomach the entire thing. That’s what productive people do, R – they skim and scroll, and believe me – if anything was scrollworthy, this was it.

  62. I thought Tigre’s “manufactured distraction” remark hit. The part that MSNBC plays in that game is a valid point. A tired one perhaps but nothing about this topic is particularly fresh. Though comment #1 is a novel approach to opening up the floor to freely flowing commentary.

    MSNBC “covers” an extremely narrow range of topics, the king and queen of which are racism and the war on women. You’re sick of hearing us say were sick of hearing it? Now that’s funny.

  63. I’m all in for quietly reading a full throated dialog on race relations between Alfie and Rutherford. I can live without “Fuck you Tigre, you too Gorilla” for one thread.

    I’m really looking forward to this.

  64. i didn’t see the Brian Williams interview with Edward Snowdon, and from what I’ve heard nothing has changed about my opinion.

    Yes, I remember the man’s comment about being suckered twice.The same thing happened to farmers during the 1970’s before the crash.

  65. Perhaps I’ve crossed the Rubicon so this comment won’t come as a surprise but regards tex & Rabbit on #’s 63 & 64:
    I disagree and as ironic as it may seem I kind of disagree with what my disagreement is based on.
    Like it or not the West specifically the USA are in negotiations with the Taliban. The Afghans are in negotiations with the Taliban. The Taliban ARE back and not going away. (btw this is the part I disagree with but thats a longer story)
    The region has little players playing a big game and doing better than we have. Two such players are Iran and Qatar. The former is everywhere the latter the player in this hand has been seen everywhere from Mali to Libya to Syria basically in all the recent 10/40 window issues.
    I don’t think this release will be played by Obama as a distraction or win. I think other movers see this as a mere piece on the board and a move that transcends the claims of those that oppose it.What is already lost in rhetoric is that the Taliban was in fact a legitimate sovereign government functioning on an international stage. Two of those released were former cabinet members of the Taliban regime. This doesn’t make them nice guys but I think it lends something to the notion that the Taliban even today are dedicated to the line they set decades ago. Bad for Afghanistan and its people but really not an issue for anyone else except perhaps the Paks.
    As for “breaking the law” well I’ve already seen it reported that it isn’t without precedent i.e. Iran/Reagan and there is the thought that this is what it is,a minor stepping stone in a walk that has been going on for three years wide open to Congressional vision.

  66. Folks with similar political outlooks often come up with the same shit.

    I find this to be true. Many of the things I am thinking I end up finding that others have the same thoughts they express when I do a search of various sites. They often reinforce my thinking, though rarely do I agree 100 percent with their reasoning or opinion. I like to view the same topic from different perspectives.

    There is a collective consciousness that does involve us all, whether we are aware of it or not. Tptb know that and have consistently used it against us. That is why they now own the media and have shaped our thinking for these past few generations.

    The Coates article is easy to read, though long and repetitive. It is obviously an opinion piece, though his facts and examples are valid and he does try to be fair in his blamecasting. The topic is not new, but the presentation is fresh and somewhat insightful. The conversation needs to be had, but definitely by our legislature.

    Understanding how bad stuff can be passed from one generation to the next does much to explain the condition of blacks in today’s America. But like all generational bondage, it must be first recognized and understood before it can be addressed and eradicated. Everyone, no matter what race, needs to wrestle these demons and destroy them or they will always be controlled by them.

    And once again we have illustrated that the banks pretty much do the damage and get off scot free. They hang them in Iran. But there’s a whole ‘nuther topic regarding usury and debt entrapment that also needs to be had sometime.

  67. “As often as I think Gorilla is full of it, he at least takes the time to put his thoughts to virtual paper.

    More later.”

    I just thought following the first line with the second was funny.

  68. I know a young man and young lady, ages 21 and 20 respectively, that have been continuously employed in various movie theatres, pita pits, summer camps, hospitals and nursing homes since they turned 16. And they’ll spend more time at their three-letter-word J-O-B-S this summer than any other single endeavor except perhaps sleeping if that includes napping.

    While their 14 year old brother spends the opening days of summer checking his white privilege on an old schwinn letour in need of some repairs.

  69. Not too lazy to put in the effort to read the piece your so enamored with. I’m not inclined to invest the time when the discussion goes as it did with your Benghazi yay or nay book review and a variety of other abandoned topics.

    To round things out on the Coates article and your vigorous research on race relations, perhaps we can go back to how I am the guy that wants to keep handicap people of the sidewalks, doesn’t appeal to your absolving definition of racism despite the example of how it fits my family’s situation (so we can call it racial hatred, prejudice, bigotry or something else to appease your sensibilities to make you feel better), and how pointing out that pants around the ass is “designed” to create a reaction and not simply the byproduct of an ignorant class(like hoodies and other menacing shit the desired reaction to which is proof of racism) is nit picking. I must be lazy. Who wouldn’t want to carry out your homework assignment to join you in more platitudes and strawmen on issues of race? You seem to have nailed it with global warming.

    R, have at it. You don’t need me. The discussion you invited on a piece that’s conclusion you say you don’t agree with will surely be a good one. No mistakes here. Ball’s in “our” court. Can’t wait to see who’s going to take up for reparations.

    And, again, apologies in advance if I misused the offensive term “black community” again. Racists, which I now thankfully know blacks can’t be, will do that. Pfffft.

    Muffy, as always, gets it. She’s willing to put in the effort to read and consider the comments — often times a 15-30 second undertaking.

  70. “What Coates brought to the table that I felt was new was the focus on the financial losses of a minority over our history. ” -R

    Says the guy who knows nothing, repeat nothing, about even the basics of black history.

    Of course segregation fucked people over. That’s an earth shattering revelation for you? I skimmed the article. What do you want from me? Redistribution of wealth kills society. I will hear none of it!

    You think Obama won because he was an exotic black? Silly little man stuck in front of a liberal opinion channel. I promise you to this day the majority of the country assumes he has slaves in the family tree (instead of slavers in which he probably does).

    On Memorial Weekend in Detroit, 5 or 6 feral blacks in broad day light methodically walked down the street and shot the entire block up. The entire block! Numerous people shot. Including a 3 year old.

    Social Justice? You morons keep feeding the bears and pulling the sleeping bag over your head when you hear these bears shred children in the camp ground next to yours.

    Read this slowly. You People Disgust Me.

    You refuse…REFUSE…to ask yourselves why blacks starting killing one another in the 1960s. Why blacks stopped getting married.

    70% of all murders in this country are by the hands of a black man.

    Social Justice. What a joke.

    Calling a conversation about more freebies that destroy the traditional family “Social Justice” makes me want to throw this phone against the wall.

    There is no such thing as social justice.

  71. I think the Great Pants Debate of 2014 is two correct points butting heads. I don’t say this as a reconciliation effort or e-polity.
    Is much that is easily attributed to the hip hop culture any different from former counter culture episodes in our history? Rock n Roll,Beatniks,Hippies,Punks,Flappers? Four of those had at their heart clear anti-social intent often as noble as it was twisted.
    The thing is though isn’t there a point where a cultural/social, fad/ideal experiences a disconnect with itself and reality? What I mean by that sooner or later people commit to actions and attitudes that have nothing to do with the scene as it were and are rooted in ignorance of much.
    Let me give you an example using another pants thing. Back in the day before peeps were wearing pants down pass their ass they were actually wearing two pair of pants. Does anyone remember this? I sure do. Well whether it came from a rapper,a song or a photo shoot I am without an answer. I do know that this “flashy” fashion statement which in many circles was nothing more than that quickly was linked to criminality. Description goes out for a male in blue pants and boom they find you wearing orange…you’re all set,perhaps you will get back to the dumpster for the pair you tossed after you and the homies are done laughing at the man.
    Basically there are fine lines between fashion,ignorance and malfeasance

  72. “The discussion you invited on a piece that’s conclusion you say you don’t agree with will surely be a good one. ”

    LOL…that cracked me up.

  73. Rabbit part of your outrage is touched upon by Coates via one of those he interviewed. I am confident you saw people like him almost daily,I know I did. Yeah there is a definite generational gap in the black community where those that fought the good fight against shitty odds and racist barriers and those nurtured on the test of the Great Society

  74. Alfie, I get what you are saying. It would make sense that we are merely horse trading with a country at the tail end of a war.

    This isn’t the Austro-Prussian War or the La Platta War though. Sadly, the war with the Taliban will never end and we all know this. This is a cultural war with no end in sight, the short term arrangements in Afghanistan be damned. A clash of civilizations.

    But…I hope you are right and I am wrong.

  75. Something from the article Tigre put up @ #15 that I did not know –

    The ratio of those over 55 in the workforce actually ticked up – in other words, older Americans are being forced to return to work in a poor economy to make ends meet while many younger Americans simply aren’t working at all. In short, there is an unprecedented supply of working-age Americans who do not hold jobs.”

    That’s quite a stinger.

    As for my own thoughts on the matter, I firmly believe children learn their work ethic directly from their parents.

    A new bike? How about new tubes and your choice of handlebar tape for old Hi-Ho Silver and going halvsies on a new u-lock instead.

  76. Got to give Alfie props for delibvering the goods too this fine morning! (As long as we’re conversating about the quality of the conversating.)

  77. Alfie, I don’t think R’s claim of ignorance was referring to the origins of the fad. The reaction is desired — as were a lot of fashion “trends” in prior days. Another trend I see among wiggers are the teardrop tattoos. You know the origins of that, and the ones that do it hope you do. Is that ignorance? I assume you’d say, “maybe not yet but in time. . . ” Is it a product of historical social injustice? Of course not.

  78. “Hillary has her book coming with 30 something pages on Benghazi with the plot being the GOP sucks. I think Coates piece will soon be joined on the altar with pieces from others on a bevy of issues. Hell it lasted but a blink but Picketty [sp?] wealth inequality tome splashed then drowned but the Left was there to get started.
    2016 is here right now fellows and we better get right about it stat!”

    Hillary’s “the vast right-wing conspiracy will have to go on without me” bravado in the pages of her new fairy tale does give me pause that Gowdy’s investigation is likely to reveal anything actionable or even reaction-able regarding Hillary on the Benghazi nothingburger.

    In any case I always expected that the real nothingburger would be the amount in which she was held accountable for any actions or inaction that might come to light. Hell even if she were caught red-handed knitting the video yarn herself – if it was strictly between her and this president it’s honor among thieves and unlikely to produce anything but disgust among conservatives and that impish little dance that security cameras sometimes catch naughty children doing right after a prank.

    I wouldn’t be opposed to hearing more about getting “right about it stat” re: 2016 here now though. No sirree.

  79. I don’t want to put words in Rutherfords mouth especially the N word but I took his use of ignorant to be more in line with exactly that.
    As for my standpoint the most telling part is seen in my #90 re generational divide.
    In fairness to you perhaps I am applying to much emphasis on something I’m not sure you’re saying ,a pitfall of thread dialog for sure. Is all black culture bankrupt? I’d say no. Is all banger mentality without merit within society? I gotta go with yes on that one. Is it caused by things from our collective past? Yes again. Can it be fixed? Yes yet again and in moving forward you have to know where you’ve been.

  80. Mexicans gang bangers at one time strangely adopted the 50’s rock and roll aesthetic. Wonder if that still is the case?

    You know how white dorks always claim black people like them?

    Well….Mexican vatos like the Rabbit.

    I hung with the Mexican crew on the West Coast when I was in the Navy as a young lad. I found some pictures and I shit you not it looked like I was dressing like a Mexcian! WTF? Pretty embarrassing. I don’t remember being a wanna be Cholo but in a hidden shoe box are a few pictures of me wearing ironed khahki pants and a white tee shirt. My wife found them once and was dying laughing.

    I’m pretty sure my friendship started over a mutual love of boxing and beer. Plus, they were openly defiant to the brothers and I liked that.

    Anyways…. I was always shocked how much 50s rock was a part of Mexican tough guy culture.

    Odelay putas!

  81. “Hell even if she were caught red-handed knitting the video yarn herself – if it was strictly between her and this president it’s honor among thieves and unlikely to produce anything but disgust among conservatives and that impish little dance that security cameras sometimes catch naughty children doing right after a prank”-Muffy

    That was excellent prose.

  82. I served with a LA chicano in San Antonio and he was the best backup when we were out and about. the mix of people there didn’t really like us (Army guys) and the Mexicans were particularly adverse to us. My guy took zero s#$^ from the locals and they could smell it,it was bizarre as well as comforting. One of my favorite memories of him was once during an incident that was flowing from comical to tense he just changed and looked at the primary opponent and straight face cool as ice told him “I will slice you like bacon”.

  83. @ Muffy basically I think the GOP need to get the planks right in the next election platform. In my opinion the social policy planks of recent times need to be left at the woodshed. I think the GOP better have a coherent environment/energy plank too. I also think the GOP should get ahead of the curve that is the DoD transformation,foreign policy,Pacific Pivot,fuck we’re broke thing.

  84. Alfie,

    I find as time goes on, you and I disagree with a lot more than I originally assumed. Same with Huck and me. You two are probably more like Rutherford than you are like me. No crime in that, by the way. Time will tell which one of us is right. That’s inevitable.

    Not that I find either of you on the same plane of lost as say Rutherford or necessarily bad folks. It’s just I feel no allegiance with either of you. It’s like we live in two different countries, believing in two different sets of rules.

    I’d like to see Texas and Oklahoma break away so we can govern ourselves. I am totally convinced our states are in position to be completely self-sufficient. We have all the natural resources we need to self govern, including location. As I’ve gotten older, I realize there are such fundamental differences between the typical mindset here and where you live that the differences irreconcilable. We don’t share much other than some meaningless birthright which means little or nothing to me anymore.

    For instance, I don’t need the U.S. Government to be a part of my life and I am finding more and more people around here agreeing with me. I’ve been thinking honestly lately. Would I be willing to risk anything say for the survival of California or Massachusetts? And I can honestly say the answer is Hell No. And that shouldn’t be some alarming pronouncement. I know damn well MA and CA think the same of my locale.

    I hate to say this, but the Northeast is one of those parts of the country I really don’t give a damn what happens to anymore. I know that’s harsh as I am cognizant that there are still millions of good folks up there (Tigre for instance is from there and he’s one of the most clear thinking people I read).

    But I’m far more concerned about say Israel than what happens to Boston. I certainly have no allegiance to Bostonians. Any state that continues to reelect scum like Kennedys and Lizzie Warren obviously has some deep seated psychosis that I want no part, nor do I want them to have any influence upon my life or my children. There’s just no getting around that.

    It’s a strange time to be American these days. I’ve gone from jingoistic to almost an oikophobe like Poolman about large swaths of this country in less than a decade.

    I guess our fundamental disagreements have had a more profound effect on me than I realized. Problem is, I don’t know if that is good or bad. LOL.

  85. I read this comment today and provide it, because I so agree with its conclusion:

    All monopolies, including the Government Monopoly, suffer from the lack of the “Feedback of Competition”. Without the “Feedback of Competition” forcing continuous improvements in Quality, Service, and Price, as happens in free markets. Monopolies get milked for the benefit of insiders with waste, corruption, feather bedding, empire building, and outright theft.

    People hate change, and unless forced to it by a threat of survival, will not change. This is why Communism is such a failure, why Socialism is such a failure, why our Government is so bad, and why Monopolies have been outlawed. It isn’t a DATA Management problem, it’s a People problem.

    The only way mankind has found to limit the badness, is the way the Founding Fathers tried to implement, by limiting the size and scope of the Government Monopoly. Unfortunately 238 years of power hungry insiders has circumvented the written Constitution. Now there are entire departments and agencies that while nowhere in the Constitution is authority enumerated for them, and the 9th and 10th Amendments specifically forbid their existence, yet there they are wasting taxpayer money in the Trillions of Dollars.

    The same things begins to happens to large corporations was my experience – albeit at a slower rate than government. They become so large and so powerful, apathy begins to set in, efficiencies begin to wane, arrogance to build, they become convinced they are too big to fail (sound familiar), and they eventually become unmanageable.

  86. So Parker I have a serious question for you. You learned nothing new from Coates essay? Hell, being from Australia, I would definitely think you would have learned something new. 😉

  87. “Though comment #1 is a novel approach to opening up the floor to freely flowing commentary.”

    Muffy while I get your point, I wasn’t trying to constrain the debate. I just wanted an informed debate. I don’t often write an opinion piece about a particular article. In this case it made no sense to me to have you all yelling at me if you didn’t even understand the topic.

    And no, you DON’T know what Coates is saying unless you read it. I give Tex credit for taking a stab at it but he threw the baby out with the bath water. He allowed the most disgusting of Coates’ assertions to drown out much more legit points.

    I get a lot of heat here about “ignoring people” but at least a quarter of the time I don’t weigh in because I don’t know enough. For this discussion I kinda wanted people to look at the basic subject matter before chiming in. Obviously everyone was free to ignore that request.

  88. “Yes, I remember the man’s comment about being suckered twice.The same thing happened to farmers during the 1970’s before the crash.”

    So James, you allude to a point made by others (by Rabbit to an absurd degree) that lots of people besides blacks have been screwed over. So I ask you a broader question. Has the very notion of justice become passé? Do we (should we) now live in a shit happens, get over it world?

  89. Rutherford that is exactly the world you need to live in. That world doesn’t exclude legal recourse where it’s clearly due. It does however prevent legislation and general living via solely emotional stances.
    Along the lines of Coates heavy emphasis on redlining is one streets history in Boston. Blue Hill Ave is a long road that starts out of the near core of the city and winds down to Milton Ma.
    Back in the day it was heavily populated with Jewish people. Families,businesses the whole deal. When blacks started to get mortgages and gravitated to the areas along the Avenue it triggered White Flight. Yankee Brahim bankers bought low from the Jews and then sold high to the blacks. The population conversion was rapid and profound. Blue Hill Av today is an asphalt ride through hell. In the 80 90s it served as a boundary a DMZ and a battlefield for drug gangs. Ironically the same flight/ bankers play followed the Jews through Milton,Randolph,& Canton too but to far less drastic levels.

  90. “And once again we have illustrated that the banks pretty much do the damage and get off scot free. They hang them in Iran. But there’s a whole ‘nuther topic regarding usury and debt entrapment that also needs to be had sometime.”

    And THAT Poolman is the real story found within Coates’ essay. The post war FHA viewed blacks as high risk and would not underwrite their mortgages. Interestingly the legendary self sufficient whites who worked so hard for the American dream DID get loans underwritten by the Fed. So in one fell swoop Coates shows gov complicity in keeping the black man down AND shatters the myth of the white man, self made with no help from the Fed.

  91. “I know a young man and young lady, ages 21 and 20 respectively…”

    Honestly Muffy I’m not being a jerk. I don’t get your point.

    Do you really think Coates (or I) is saying “all whites have it made.”?

  92. Tigre sorry dude but hoodies are menacing? Really? Maybe post-Trayvon they are but pre-Trayvon I thought all sorts of folks, black and white wore them.

  93. Many of those people, white, black and etc should NOT have gotten loans because they were at high risk of defaulting. As I wrote, the same thing happened to farmers in the early 1970’s. After the Russian wheat deal, prices rose, and farmers, with the encouragement of bankers over borrowed under over optimistic false expectations.

    The government virtually forced banks to underwrite mortgages for people who were at risk in the 1990’s. Men in black visited our county banks to see if they were loaning enough to at risk people, all white here. No black people live here. One banker refused, and they took him to Omaha for a little chat.

    Some real estate agents cooked the books to make borrowers look more financially stable than they were.

    Banks, and other institutions, of course traded bad debts which had been converted to other forms.

    Coats may be right that government complicity kept the black man down, but it was good business. Whites who also discovered they could no longer pay their bills suffered as others did and we had a terrible recession.

  94. Oh Tigre, regarding your “family situation” may I remind you that I have said REPEATEDLY that it is reprehensible for your boy to be made uncomfortable about being white. Every time you’ve brought it up I’ve been very clear on it.

    Now if you’re referring to some other situation forgive me for not knowing what you’re talking about.

  95. 108, yes, Rutherford, stuff happens. “Get over it.” I complain once in a while, but I don’t expect any payment or parades for myself. The time for reparations was when ex -slaves were still alive, and the government did try to help them.

    Grievances are so interconnected that all of our ancestors have done something terrible to each other.

  96. “You think Obama won because he was an exotic black? Silly little man stuck in front of a liberal opinion channel. I promise you to this day the majority of the country assumes he has slaves in the family tree (instead of slavers in which he probably does).”

    I think you’re the silly one. Most of the folks who thought he was slave descended didn’t vote for him.

    You really think it was just a coincidence that the first black President had a Kenyan father and white mother? Are you that much in denial about where this country is racially?

  97. “Tigre sorry dude but hoodies are menacing? Really? Maybe post-Trayvon they are but pre-Trayvon I thought all sorts of folks, black and white wore them.”

    Sorry dude. You don’t know what you’re talking about again. Hell, my kid’s school has banned hoodies throughout their attendance. Trayvon set no new standards. But you don’t live in a neighborhood where you’d know what I’m talking about. One thing I know about you with certainty is that you don’t know or “get” urban culture. It’d better if you listened rather than pass off what you imagine to be as knowledge. I really don’t need to be lectured about what I live.

    As for your lack of reading comprehension, it and your dumb comment about the definition of racism speak for themselves — even in a vacuum.

  98. p.s. I wasn’t asking for your empathy. I was making a statement about racism. . . errrr. . . racial hatred, prejudice, and bigotry by those in power.

  99. I don’t know about the blacks. Some may have been cheated into borrowing more money than they should have. I do know about the farmers, because some of them were my neighbors.

    The wheat deal sent prices up from about $1.50 per bushel for corn and $4.00 for soy beans to $5.00 and $13.00 respectively. Farmers and bankers thought the laws of gravity had been repealed.

    Bankers saw mutual profits to be made, and magazine writers discussed “Young Tigers” who were over leveraging for fun and profit. It was a lot like the housing market, and greed fueled the frenzy surely as it supported the tulip bubble.

    My father-in law tried to shame me into buying a farm which was for sale. Our banker practically handed me a $200,000 down payment. I was too nervous, so I rented some more land instead. The feeding frenzy also carried over to machinery and other farm assets.

    News accounts of people leveraging houses to pay for new houses or expensive trips looked like the same territory I had traveled. it took little perspicacity to predict a crash after I watched greed and miscalculation take many of my neighbors down with our banks and machinery dealers close behind.

    Drought compounded the problem, and we nearly lost our land. I don’t live in a poor part of the city, so maybe there was a difference i didn’t see. My experience greed not government of banking policy led people to buy what they couldn’t afford.

    As we say, “stuff happens.”

  100. LOL Alfie really hit the nail on the head. I forget which comic it was but he was a black comic who made a distinction between being black and being a “N”.

    Yes quite frankly my use of the word ignorant could be replaced by “niggerish”. And while I will agree that many fads may start as “counter-culture”, some just devolve to low class — ignorant.

    I don’t view saggy pants as “making a statement”. I view it as “I’m too stupid to know I look like a ridiculous asshole.”

  101. Our family was in a mall minding our business. A security guard approached and said “Sir, I must ask you not to wear you cap cocked to one side.” Our children still tease me about my gang connections.

  102. OMFG. I won’t venture a guess on Texas but Tex I’d bet body parts that OK sucks the Fed teat big time. So please let the Okies secede and we’ll see how fast they devolve into an impoverished banana republic.

  103. “The same things begins to happens to large corporations was my experience …”

    I agree Tex. but I also think a disconnect has developed between pleasing shareholders and making profits the old fashioned way–outselling the competition.

    Shareholders are so focused on the bottom line that if it looks good solely by workforce cuts and not by honestly gained profits they’re happy as a clam. How do you think IBM stock keeps strong? By great innovation and beating the competition? Bullshit.

  104. I think 2008 was a perfect storm scenario and that MA gov race of 06 was indeed a trial balloon. Every left of center identity knob was being gifted an affirmation moment it was irresistible nirvana. 2012 the crack was good or something I still shake my head at least weekly and that’s no lie. 2016 will be the same formula as 08 and 47% are more than willing to go for it.

  105. Tex I thought about your comment and all I can is that its noticeable that the years have cast a change in you. I honestly wish you well.

  106. Nobody, Muffy.

    You are witnessing the great quagmire of all liberalism.

    Remember the joy in Rutherford’s heart the day Obama was elected?

    I knew the hang over would suck for all race bating asshole liberals.

    They simply can’t operate when a democracy is doing things like electing a black guy.

    Inauguration day wasn’t so special after all now.

    Liberals despise success. They have to for obvious reasons. Talk about a road irrelevancy.

    So..Rutherford comes up with the stupidity…scratch that…the man has never come up with an original thought in his protected life….he mimics some race obsessed asshole on TV that America still hasn’t voted for a black guy because America is so race obsessed that they are aware that Obama is of Eastern African origins instead of Western. As if mainstream America even knows the difference in terms of historical significance.

    Mark my words….America is vaguely aware Obama is a mulatto but it thinks it voted for a black guy.

    The average person on the street, including black people, couldn’t point on a map and say where slaves came from. And you know what? This might not be such a bad thing. Hitler loved history for a reason.

  107. Think of all the times Rutherford has chosen race to be the topic at his shitty little salon.

    Now think about how many times Rutherford has thought about, wrote about, questioned, analyzed, pondered reality in urban America.

    30 people were shot in the city he lives in on Easter weekend!!! He didn’t even mention it. Its like King Louis the 16th noting only an unsuccessful fox hunt on the day the Bastille was stormed.

    Yes Rutherford…hoodies are banned in many urban schools.

    No Rutherford. It had nothing to do with Trayvon…. the only murdered black kid you have ever gave a shit about.

  108. Alfie….if that soldier was an AWOL cunt….and those 5 cock suckers we released where as high up and dangerous as some are saying….including one who was OBL’s bff…then it is you that as changed over the last few years, sir.

    I want nothing more for this not to be the case.

    If it is…Obama should be frog marched to the brig.

    WTF

  109. Mullah fucking Omar??

    Mullah Stinkbeard Omar is publicly mocking Obama for the swap.

    Is anyone else sick that motherfucker is still alive?

    911. Never forget.

    Yeah my ass.

    Fuck Mullah Omar. Can’t believe he lives. He needs to die. Seriously…outside if OBL and KSM….who is more responsible?

    This sucks.

  110. OMFG. I won’t venture a guess on Texas but Tex I’d bet body parts that OK sucks the Fed teat big time. So please let the Okies secede and we’ll see how fast they devolve into an impoverished banana republic.

    Well, it’s a pipe dream now, but I sincerely hope you get your wish. Really, I do. We’ll take Muffy and trade for 1,000,000 of Poolman.

    And you forget your ancestry. It’s a history of tragedy – incapable of rising to banana republic. Tribal warfare, malaria, voodoo, mud huts for the smartest, and epic failure – the worst, most feckless, most savage, most animalistic of human history. Watermelon and chicken was a quantum leap.

    My brethren studies partial physics, scorched a couple of hundred thounsand Japs when necessary, and created the super collider even carrying the dead weight of rap and meth heads.

    Your head would be a trophy for some superior cannibal if great, great, great granddaddy hadn’t caught the boat.

    No doubt man like you and white trash name redacted “Graychin” name redacted would suffer for a time. There’s a lot of maggots even in Oklahoma that do indeed suck the teat of Sam and live in the Indian casinos, waiting on their next handout of government cheese. Or about three hundred and foaty pounds of them sitting in a government desk job, straightening the nappy hair with bad attitude. They desperately need to be starved without mercy so they head to where they belong.

    To South Chicago.

    But most of them, like you, are too cosmetic to realize that Sam also has to be fed and its coming from somewhere but you know not where. Worse, you’re incapable of understanding where and never give so much as a thought to it. You really do live in that world of too big to fail, then rail against it in public like OWS plague, “R.”

    Here’s what I really think. You have no idea how dependent you are, Rutherford. I believe someone could turn out your lights as quickly as a switch before you even realized it was dark. You’ll be pushing your Mercedes for a long time when the tank hits ‘E’ before the China Man, North Dakota, Abu, or a Cold Canadian sold you diluted gasoline at an exorbitant price and took your daughter as collateral. 😈

    You really think without our MSNBC ilk, the ‘burbs are going to revert to banana republic? 😈

    I think the worst case is many of us will have to revert to mowing their yards, having an unranked college football team, and the baristas go bankrupt.

    Rabbit is right – your real world if you were to open the blinds is a South Chicago weekend. I got sad news for you. Detroit is your future. 🙂

    Damn, it would be glorious. A world without slugs like Obama, Richard Sherman, Joe Biden, and Beyonce.

    A little piece of heaven on earth.

  111. 😆 I enjoyed penning that, Mr. Rutherford. I wrote that specifically for your amusement, because I’m still assuming you have your sense of humor.

    But here’s what I really think. I think you’d be shocked at just how easily half this country left your little world.

    Why do I say that?

    Because I think all it takes is one card removed from your wall for the wall to come crumbling down. I think your house is built on sand. And I think twenty states would follow within a decade. I think the military would lay down their arms or turn them on you.

    And unlike the Civil War where the South outnumbered 4-1 and the North had all the industry and still damn near lost, there is no built in advantage this time.

    I think within my lifetime, it would be you residing in a banana republic – not that is my wish for you to live in it. It would be a serious misjudgment of your own making. Seriously. 😉

  112. P.S.

    The sense of pride expressed by officials of the Obama administration at the release of Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl is not shared by many of those who served with him — veterans and soldiers who call him a deserter whose “selfish act” ended up costing the lives of better men.

    “I was pissed off then and I am even more so now with everything going on,” said former Sergeant Matt Vierkant, a member of Bergdahl’s platoon when he went missing on June 30, 2009. “Bowe Bergdahl deserted during a time of war and his fellow Americans lost their lives searching for him.”

    Vierkant said Bergdahl needs to not only acknowledge his actions publicly but face a military trial for desertion under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. . . .

    Many of Bergdahl’s fellow troops — from the seven or so who knew him best in his squad, to the larger group that comprised the 1st Battalion, 501st Infantry Regiment, 4th Brigade Combat Team, 25th Infantry Division — told CNN that they signed nondisclosure agreements agreeing to never share any information about Bergdahl’s disappearance and the efforts to recapture him. Some were willing to dismiss that document in hopes that the truth would come out about a soldier who they now fear is being hailed as a hero, while the men who lost their lives looking for him are ignored.

    Many are flocking to social media, such as the Facebook page “Bowe Bergdahl is NOT a hero,” where they share stories detailing their resentment. . . . Emails reported by the late Michael Hastings in Rolling Stone in 2012 reveal what Bergdahl’s fellow infantrymen learned within days of his disappearance: he told people that he no longer supported the U.S. effort in Afghanistan.

    Still think it was a swell trade, Lefties?

  113. So we’re outing people’s names here now?

    Guess it’s time for another extended leave, because that’s some fucked up shit.

  114. R, can you hear the bell? Ring ring….

    No weapons were displayed during a robbery of a carhop at a central Topeka Sonic drive-in reported Friday afternoon, a police official said.

    Lt. Jana Harden said officers were dispatched about 3:18 p.m. to Sonic, 2053 S.W. Western, on a report of a robbery.

    The robbers were described as two black males about 17 to 19 years old, Harden said in a news release. One was wearing a gray hooded sweatshirt and white pants and was about 5 feet 9 inches tall and 180 pounds. The second wore a black hooded sweatshirt and white pants, stood about 6 feet 1 inches tall and weighed about 150 pounds.

    Those racist bastards, how dare they infringe on the image of St. Skittles!!! The Capital Journal should be ashamed of themselves. They even had the audacity to comment on the race of the robbers! Tsk tsk tsk, that just will not do…

  115. I was thinking Thursday evening “who would be a good replacement for Shinseki?” My answer: Mitt Romney, well known as the turn-around guy. A bi-partisan choice for Obama.” – R

    This Regime is going down in flames as the most corrupt, incompetent piles of morons ever collected. The chances of getting a competent actor from the other side of the aisle are about the same as a snowball’s chances in hell.

    One word: Why?

    Who in their right mind would do something so clearly self-destructive?

  116. Perspective…

    CNN anchor Brooke Baldwin broke down on air Friday afternoon as the parents of Iraq War veteran Daniel Somers read his suicide letter. Somers wrote in the note that the VA failed him.
    Somers was a veteran of Operation Iraqi Freedom and served in over 400 combat missions. He suffered from fibromyalgia and PTSD and killed himself last year after he received treatment from the Phoenix VA hospital. He wrote that his body had become “nothing but a cage, a source of pain and constant problems.”

    Somers’ parents read an excerpt of his suicide note on CNN Friday afternoon: “Is it any wonder then that the latest figures show 22 veterans killing themselves each day? That is more veterans than children killed at Sandy Hook every single day. Where are the huge policy initiatives? Why isn’t the president standing with those families at the State of the Union? Perhaps because we were not killed by a single lunatic but rather by our system of dehumanization, neglect, and indifference.”

    It took three months for Somers to receive initial treatment because the VA was confused over his status as a member of the National Guard. He was shuffled around the system, going from the Phoenix VA hospital to a Department of Defense hospital before the Phoenix VA finally agreed to give him care.

    “He was only seen because we had a connection at the facility and they were able to let him in,” said Howard Somers, his father.

    Of course, BHO didn’t know about these problems until he was told by the media, as always it would seem. And if it isn’t ignorance he’s pleading, it’s the previous Administrations fault, of which he’s doing now as well. Except, he was—or should have been—aware of the issues long before assuming office, considering he was on the Senate Veteran Affairs committee prior to being elected POTUS. So he was responsible for oversight of the VA prior to assuming executive authorities of the VA.

    Of course, how dare we criticize Dear Leader for his failings….

  117. “Our family was in a mall minding our business. A security guard approached and said “Sir, I must ask you not to wear you cap cocked to one side.” Our children still tease me about my gang connections.”

    James, I trust you suggested to him something anatomically impossible.

  118. I told you Obama should have been impeached after Benghazi, but NO…

    I don’t have time to remember the details because we had a severe weather outbreak yesterday evening and expect another late Tuesday.For the next five days, I will be speaking to children about the weather for our Artists in the Park series.

    Congress passed an anti-redlining law during Carters’ administration,
    It was fairly inocuous until the savings and loan scandal during the early 1990’s. Financial businesses reorganized as some went out of business. Community organizers such as Jessie Jackson demonstrated and threatened to expose the institutions as racists if they didn’t comply with more risky loans.

    Then, the government got involved during the Clinton administration.Bush and the Republicans warned that the situation was getting out of hand and need more stringent regulation. The Democrats, including Obama said everything was fine,

    As I wrote, too many people who could not afford the mortgages were misused to fit an agenda. Obama and the Democrats do that frequently, don’t they? At least no one died in the housing debacle so far as we know.

  119. 142 Parker, I had to be careful with my language because our two teenagers were with us. After “say what?” I did suggest something of the kind politely. The security guard appologized and admitted an old white farmer like me wearing a seed corn cap didn’t look much like a gang member.

    A year after 9/11, I was storm chasing and took pictures of clouds approaching a mall. I went into a store to buy more video tape for my camera, and when I returned four police cars surrounded my car. A woman saw my video taping and she called the police because she thought I was a terrorist casing the mall.

    We all had a good laugh over that one . Blacks complain about the “special” treatment they get, and I’m not even black.

  120. @deadrabbit #129 I reviewed my earlier comment (#80) and stand by it.
    My comment was an observation on the greater reality of the situation and obviously I think that is consistent with how I’ve rolled for years.

    I supported the invasion of Afghanistan. I felt the historical precedent of the Barbary War permitted it. I felt the NATO activation of Article 5 was right and proper. I felt my friends (3) and everyone else served well and that we as a nation initially had a coherent strategy and will to do the right thing. Sept 2010 thereabouts saw me stand on the side that we should be out of Afghanistan and Iraq.

    Is Bowe a deserter? Runs possible to probable. Is his dad a freak show? I felt the answer was yes before I ever read him. Should Bowe face further UCMJ actions? I vote yes.
    That said we’re still leaving Afghanistan and the Taliban is staying. The coming Afghan elections are important to the region and negotiations are going to continue. I don’t like any of that but my emotions don’t dictate my views and observations.

  121. G #138 You are correct! Historically closing years of a administration can be bad scenes and when the administration has a s many issues as Obama has the bleeding has only just begun.
    On that note Rutherford I wonder if you have any visions of whats to come?!.

  122. James wait till you get to walk your grand daughter somewhere and she cries. Some freak will call 911 on the “dirty old man hurting a little girl”.
    We live in a nation that has indeed militarized our police forces to obscene levels but we’re also a nation that calls 911 ‘cuz we only have 5 nuggets in our six pce. OMG!

  123. The VA mess has been brought to light so tptb can promote the privatization of the VA services. Insurance companies are licking their collective chops thinking of more 20% guaranteed profits doled out by government. Bo Bo care is only one of the ingredients in this shit sandwich we are being force fed.

    The Afghan invasion was not retaliation for 911, since 97 percent of Afghans hadn’t even heard of the event when we started carpet bombing their country. The invasion was for strategic positioning to control energy routing and the exploitation of the natural resources for profit. Has nobody read ZB’s The Grand Chessboard or PNACs Rebuilding America’s Defenses? These plans were laid down and have been followed. We aren’t really leaving Afghanistan since we have established permanent bases and are paying private contractors to do our dirty work.

    They are taking a little different approach in Africa, but are still claiming our actions are in the name and purpose of providing humanitarian aid. All we need do is keep up the propaganda campaign and cite ‘innocent girls’ as our reason to intervene.

    It would probably be good for this nation to be broken up into states where we could all have more localized government and representation. This federal experiment isn’t working well for the governed. But since so many profit from it, it will be hard to disassemble short of a complete defunding. And since the creators of money out of thin air are too big to fail and are bedfellows with our supposed public servants, it will be a huge undertaking. At this rate we either all fall together or we break apart and form independent stronger communities that focus on self sufficiency.

  124. The Afghan invasion was not retaliation for 911, since 97 percent of Afghans hadn’t even heard of the event when we started carpet bombing their country.

    That’s so woefully dishonest, even coming from a mendacious loon it deserves to called out and mocked.

    Carpet bombed? That’s rich. Building nations. We were so worried about killing civilians and innocents as if there is such a thing in that place, Bush & Cheney foolishly allied with the Northern Alliance to kill Bin Laden – kissing Karsai ass too. Even then, our military was hamstrung.

    We should have carpet bombed that place or better yet, nuked it. Anything that walked, flew, or burrowed should have been turned to dust between Afghan and that equitable shithole Pakistan. And we should have sent your pathetic ass over to Tora Bora to stand guard with Karsai and Osama so you could watch the flash up close and personal.

  125. Perhaps I misunderstood the Graychin reference. If so I apologize. I’ve been away for work and only been skim reading.

  126. Man…..I went home and nervously checked the thread to see if I was outed only to find that maybe I’m the culprit.

    Do you think Hucking is referring to when I used Rutherford’s first name?

    I thought it was OK to do that as Rutherford has a page on this website dedicated to outing himself.

    If I broke code….I apologize. I would never want myself outed or anyone else for that matter.

    Rutherford….upon reflection..I don’t think its cool to use your Christian name even if you outed yourself. I didn’t even think about it as breaking code when I did it. I’m sorry about that, dude.

  127. Susan Rice is on ABC saying the POW is a hero.

    Are we really expected to accept anything she says as true?

    Man…I don’t know what’s up with this soldier..
    But I’d be lying If I said I didn’t automatically suspect the opposite of anything that piece if shit spouts off.

    Sad.

    My heart tells me this soldier should be presumed innocent at the very least. My mind….different story.

    This is the kind of thing that happens when you have the least transparent and least honest administration in my life time always fucking lying about stuff. Makes you doubt everything.

    If they end up getting caught lying about this guy….disgusting.

  128. It will (and has) taken the focus off of the VA.

    Notice the Friday release? Just in time for the Sunday programs and Monday commentary.

  129. What difference at this point does it make, DR? This is a nothingburger story. Any further inquiry is simply a politicized witch hunt.

    And racism……

    Also…notice the silence over Obama outing a CIA person. Contrast the lack of outrage over this with the Plame incident.

    The only thing more staggering than the left’s boundless hypocrisy is its constant acceptance of complete and utter incompetence as a defense of this administration.

  130. Any chance that CIA person that was outed did not go along with the proposed prisoner exchange? I understand his consent would’ve been required. They don’t slip up on stuff like that.

    Since everything is election motivated by this admin, all we need to do is figure out what their perceived reward is. Getting caught lying is not a deterrent because it’s not a threat. everything is a nothing burger to the mindless adherents.

  131. I hadn’t considered that, ET.

    One thing I have considered though….

    While we talk about how this opens the floodgates for terrorists to capture US soldiers, it also encourages something else….

    It encourages any soldier that is against GITMO to “wander off base” (desertion) and get “captured”. With each time, GITMO gets emptied a little bit more.

    Before anyone thinks that no soldier would be willing to be captured by the enemy in order to serve his or her own agenda, just remember that we have soldiers killing their own and themselves to also serve their own agendas. Also consider that the treatment might not be all that bad if you tell your captors “I am doing this so your friends can be freed.” (which recently deleted tweets suggest has been at least the partial motivation of this guy’s father)

  132. Um. I get it now, Huck. I do it so frequently, I don’t even notice anymore. Well, let me explain.

    I used to post frequently on the Tulsa World board. These maggots didn’t like what I had to say on their Leftist dominated board, and I received everything from tacit death wishes and threats to cries of banishment. I’d laugh at them and mock their abject stupidity, which only made them madder. I’d take on all comers, sometimes four or five at a time. name redacted Graychin followed me everywhere I went.

    One day, these maggots went too far when they kept losing argument before their editor was finally forced to ban me after the cries of censoring fascism. Literally, dozens of them. In doing their best to ‘out me’, remembering this is my hometown mind you, these dumbasses found a Tex Taylor doing business as brick mason. They published his name, his family’s name, his business and home address, the phone number, and request to write into the paper to damage his business to the max. name redacted Graychin egged them on, thinking he’d finally found the ability to do maximum carnage. I told him quit, or else. He didn’t listen – he should have.

    I told them either apologize and write a letter to editor to apologize to Tex Taylor the brick mason for libel publicly, or I would begin the process of outing them. A few of them would have none of it, just sure they had finally figured out who I was.

    So, I found out everything I could on the POS – including his grand kid’s names too. Wife, daughter, work history, taxes on his house, son-in-law’s business, crime record, list of divorces, dead mother-in-law’s name he copped as gmail address to create a fictitious account, google pics of his lake home, court dockets.

    You name it – I got it. And I’ve got an incredibly long memory when somebody really pisses me off.

    So until that rat bastard stops doing shit like that, I will continue to do so. And if name redacted “Graychin” name redacted wants to get really nasty, I’ll begin to publish all the rest I know about him besides just his name and making fun of his wife’s name.

    Like I said, Huck. You and I ain’t buddies. But I would never do a damn thing to ‘out’ you unless you wanted to make it personal like they did. Then I am more than happy to oblige being an engorged prick – virtual world, real world, makes no difference to me.

    I would have made a decent private investigator. 😈

  133. “Who would not have voted for Obama if he’d have had two black American parents?”

    Every on the fence racist. That’s who. Understand, a non-exotic black man would not have even been nominated. So called liberals have their prejudices too.

    There’s a great story told by Eddie Murphy that illustrates “racism except for THAT guy” phenomenon.

    Murphy was talking to a white woman on an escalator. When she got off her husband asked her “why were you talking to that ni**er?” To which she replied “that was no ni**er, that was Eddie Murphy.”

    Some folks can dislike an entire race unless they can FIND a reason to like one of them. Obama being “special” helped him with those type of people.

  134. Tigre,

    My buddy blog mate wrote this today and I thought it spot on. We were debating the merits of an article of grounds for Obama’s impeachment.

    See if you can find Rutherford anywhere in CFB’s comment as he argues the merits with the author:

    ————

    Roger, I cannot think of an act against the American people that Obama could commit that would get him impeached.

    He has spied on reporters, attacked political opponents, jailed innocent men, seized the economy (in every sense of that word), abandoned Americans under attack, defrauded the people, forced State goods and services down their throats, used the IRS as a weapon, the EPA as a weapon, destroyed our energy advantages, sold property rights, invaded the courts to give union creditors an illegal preference, threw open the borders, released violent criminals, attacked Judeo-Christians….if this man was caught with a smoking gun over a busload of dead orphans…the media would tell us they were a gang of Hitler Youth.

    Andy does a marvelous legal job of laying out the case. But the case was evident to anyone who dared to accept what has been plain to see.

    If Bill Ayers was elected President instead, how would these things be different? If Rashid Khalidi had been in charge of foreign affairs, what would be different?

    This man nominated Van Jones, a communist, a cop killer’s mouthpiece, Maoists, his entire DOJ is a radical cesspool.

    The intent is clear. Woodstock Jihad is in full bloom.

    The Siblings and Spouses media are not “reporting” it, they are advancing it.

    And, there is ZERO chance of any official recourse. Andy says we have three options. Impeachment needs an honestly informed populace. We will NEVER get that.

    Election will only partially assist. The Democratic Party is fully absorbed in Woodstock Jihad. Even if we successfully won every conceivable race, legislative “wall building” will only slow, not stop the sepsis now in our system.

    Rooting out the Woodstock Jihad cancer in every department, now filled to the gills with planted jihadists would take a monumental effort.

    We will accomplish nothing in the end, if we do not accept the fact that we are two countries at this moment in time, not one.

    And, these two separate and opposite nations are mortal enemies.

  135. I didn’t vote for Obama because he’s a lying asshole. Had nothing to do with his skin color. Based on that comment, R clearly votes based on skin tone.

    Racist…

  136. My children still laugh at the notion of me as a gang banger. As our grand daughter gets older, maybe I should wear the hat our daughter gave me to be sure no one over reacts when if she pouts or cries in the mall, “The Worlds’ Best Grand dad.”

    I agree with Tex. Impeach the so and so and his little dog too.

  137. “Every on the fence racist. That’s who. Understand, a non-exotic black man would not have even been nominated. So called liberals have their prejudices too.

    There’s a great story told by Eddie Murphy that illustrates “racism except for THAT guy” phenomenon.

    Murphy was talking to a white woman on an escalator. When she got off her husband asked her “why were you talking to that ni**er?” To which she replied “that was no ni**er, that was Eddie Murphy.”

    Some folks can dislike an entire race unless they can FIND a reason to like one of them. Obama being “special” helped him with those type of people.”

    Who put that cockamamie idea in your head?

    PS…That Eddie Murphy story doesn’t ring true either. Sounds like a joke from his stand up.

  138. It’s getting too weird. I would not be surprised if one day all these people – Rice, Obama, Holder, Clinton, Brennan, Soros, Pelosi, that Reid thing, all of them – called a presser and just started unzipping their human suits as the pounding at the door starts.

  139. Fuck it, I’m saying what I have to say….

    What Graychin and others attempted to do to you, Tex, was wrong. But I just don’t think it justifies you turning around and doing it to him. I mean, we learn “two wrongs don’t make a right” pretty early in life. At least I did.

    And frankly I’m disappointed in others here, who don’t seem care because it was someone other than them. The only response has been the amount of “Oh shit, was it me?!?!” and when it wasn’t, not another word.

    You should all take heed. You piss off Tex bad enough and he’s going to out your ass. He says there are criteria for him doing it. But that he would do it, at all should give you cause for concern.

    I’m out….

  140. Outing is bad. To my way of thinking it’s never justified. But if someone or a group of people tried to out you Huck and the good news turned out that they fucked up and outed an innocent stranger – I’d stick by you. I wouldnt like what you did but I’m not sure how I would react under those circumstances myself. Probably run away.

    I don’t want to see either you or Tex quit hanging around but I’d prefer things lighten up in any case.

    I vote you both stay and improve relations.

  141. McWhorter is a good read on the topic that Rutherfords #163 has same basis in.
    Of the many lines in race relations there are fairly well documented ones backed by psychology.
    There is a line between the thug nigger and the honor roll student in your kids class thats black.This one is a no brainer but in it deepest points one of the lines you find is that you don’t feel the need to quantify the kids race in the student example because you usually see the kid in a more human light.
    There are the feelings you have pro and con for the likes of Oprah,Colin Powell,Clarence Thomas and Snoop Dog and these too find you weaving and sorting folks on one side of the line or the other.
    FWIW blacks do the same thing.

  142. @ Muffy let me see if I understand you. Are you asking if BHO were 100% black heritage wise but still BHO and lets keep the H for realism and he was still as “articulate and clean”…who would not have voted for him?

  143. You should all take heed. You piss off Tex bad enough and he’s going to out your ass. He says there are criteria for him doing it. But that he would do it, at all should give you cause for concern.

    Oh bullshit. Hey dickhead. You’ve got no room to criticize Rutherford for anything. Not only are you a major league hypocrite, bigot, you’re the softest whining pussy on this board. A Woodstock Jihadist my buddy spoke, lover of U.N.. You’re fucked up. I guarantee your entire history is fucked up.

    There’s at least five people on this board I know the name and occupation. Have I ‘outed’ Pfesser, dickhead? You run your mouth more than I anymore I know and don’t even understand the basics. You’re worse than a Leftist. You’re a pretender.

    As far as I’m concerned, you remind me of Bowe Bergdhal’s father, flake. Go off yourself…

  144. Sorry, Muffy. Huck has more than made this personal. The fragile ego likes to take my personal life as sport, is dumb enough to ridicule it, and dumb enough to not realize I’m about 20 light years ahead of him and his sorry existence in every capacity.

    Obviously, the man has personal issues and pent up insecurities. Do you remember his paranoia about affecting his ‘established’ career? ** Guffaw **. Delusions of grandeur. What am I going to ‘out?’

    I’d call him Pharisee but he doesn’t believe in the Pharisees either i bet. Too Jewish, I guess. 😈 But Kofi Annan? OH! WHAT A REDEEMER!

  145. Rutherford,

    I’m going to go back to taking a break from this place. It was healthier when I ducked out a year and a half ago and only made the occasional appearance. Boredom has a habit of bringing out the worst in me. I can handle the heat. I can’t stand the drifting.

    I want you to know something and I want to make this public so that there is no speculation about why I took an extended sojourn.

    If you’ve read my screed between the lines during the last six years now, you’ll note there are two camps I’m highly critical. One are Leftists who I believe are damaging this country irreparably and I’m very vocal about that. Obama is worse than weak – he’s corrupt and so is this entire administration. As an educated man that should be able to rise above race and ideology, it’s disgraceful you can’t bring yourself to openly admit that.

    I appreciate the posts and I understand your pressed for time, but I would say maybe one in a hundred questions of mine even get the attempt a reply. There’s a forum but there is no real dialogue. You post Leftist dogma and we pile on. I’ll simply say, when the rule of law becomes meaningless, so does the foundation of the country. Oklahoma becoming a Banana Republic were we to secede? Buddy, the country is already there and you just don’t see it.

    But there is a part of this country that believes because they didn’t vote for Obama, that makes them not culpable for what ails this country, failing to understand life is never that simple. And I only hint at my own disgust which occasionally leaks out, which runs even deeper than my disgust of Idiot Leftism.

    When I find myself not caring about my fellow man, I need to step back, reevaluate why I am letting my own heart grow cold, and admit that these exchanges are not healthy.

    Sorry about that last exchange. I used to be better than that.

  146. One of you outed an occasional visitor to the blog. I redacted his real name. I actually meant to do this a couple of days ago when I first noticed it but I forgot and was reminded by one of our blog regulars today.

    Please don’t do that shit. It just makes extra work for me to go in and edit your comment.

    Thank you from your kindly blog owner.

  147. All the vitriol aside Tex, how much state aid does OK get?

    I had a feeling I would piss you off but I despise states which are ungrateful for their share of government largess and unpatriotically threaten secession. Fuck ’em. Let them go.

  148. Holy crap did I do a lot of redacting just now. My apology to all for not catching it sooner.

    It is important to me that you know your identity will not be revealed if I have anything to do with it.

  149. “On that note Rutherford I wonder if you have any visions of whats to come?!”

    The GOP is itching for impeachment and I’ll be damned if Obama doesn’t give them marginally plausible grounds to get it rolling. Mofo seems increasingly out of control of his own administration.

    Question: when will Hillary betray him for her own political future?

  150. “Rutherford….upon reflection..I don’t think its cool to use your Christian name even if you outed yourself. I didn’t even think about it as breaking code when I did it. I’m sorry about that, dude”

    By now Rabbit I imagine you caught the drift of who outed whom. No harm done on your part.

    Sometimes I find all the aliases so silly but God knows I understand the need. World is so fucked up we can’t even be ourselves.

  151. G you don’t find it odd that white perps are never described racially on the news but black ones are?” – R

    What? Have you lost your mind or what? Of course white people are described radically, your propaganda channel of choice calls the entire white race radical! Leftists are on this roll of “white privileged,” how fucking radical is that? Apparently, to liberals, being born white makes you a racist. You have people on MSDNC claiming whites are the single point of racial tension in this country, if not the world.

    And what exactly do you mean by perps? Lets take mass shootings, which have been almost all done by liberal leftists, but are IMMEDIATELY called tea party or conservative before their name is even known. But, when the details trickle out that they were registered Dems, or liberal activists, it is like crickets appear.

    You need to check yourself…

  152. As for what Tex and Huck had to say, I don’t buy into the outing thing at all. I get where Tex is coming from because Graychin is a vindictive, horrible person who will do whatever he can to hurt people he disagrees with–so very liberal. Huck, ET, myself, and probably a few others, view the privacy thing to be very important. How important? If someone was to do it to me, I’ll fucking hunt you down and the next person to see you will be an archeologist.

    All kidding aside (or was I) it isn’t cool, don’t do it.

    To Tex’s point about this “dialogue,” he’s right. Its a dog pile. There is no dialogue. You don’t answer questions, respond to comments, or provide anything of substance. Yay, you wrote a post…… and then you proceed to provide snarky, shallow and irrelevant commentary till the thread is on the verge of collapse….then yay, you write another post and the cycle continues.

    I think I get why.

    You’ve got nothing to say. You can’t defend Obama or his Regime in anything they’ve done, and you certainly can’t defend the Dems, or anything they believe. I think that, politically, you’re in crisis. You see the cracks in your ideological foundations and you don’t know what to do. You actually believed the Chicago Jesus, and since he’s come in office, your life has progressively gotten worse (which happens to be the end result of progressive politics).

    Hope and Change don’t sound so good anymore, but you’re not willing to admit that you were swindled, and prefer to buy his excuses for why the snake oil isn’t working. It’s the Republicans fault, or the Tea Party, or the Weather, or whatever is the “enemy” of the day. This applies to Obama as much as it applies to you:

    The single constant in ALL your failures is you.

    Wake up….

  153. Haha, just noticed you said racially, rather than radically. Regardless, I think what I said still stands.

    As for the RACIAL descriptors, I wonder… The only time I see racial information pointed out on perps is when they’re putting out a BOLO. That said, I could probably find a dozen stories, especially about this knockout game, where the race of the “perp” and the race of the victim are not discussed, which is interesting since almost 100% of the “perps” are young, black males targeting Whites and or Jews. In fact, one would be extremely wise to follow Mark Cuban’s advise, and if you see a group of blacks walking towards you, cross the street, because it has been almost entirely groups of blacks sucker punching unsuspecting Whites as they walk by.

    So no, I don’t subscribe to your premise, because there has been a concerted effort to not highlight the racial profiling that seems to be occurring on the part of young black men against whites in this “game”.

  154. Rutherford – In my many minutes of spare time (right!) I have gone back and re-read Atlas for inspiration, to reassure me that there are still some who have not lost their minds.

    I’m sure you’re aware of the many “boutique” medical clinics that are springing up around the globe, as Americans take up “medical tourism” – with both doctors and patients fleeing in response to your shambling, government-run medical system. A quadruple bypass, for example, is about $4K in the UAE or India, performed by American-trained doctors, in gleaming, top-of-the-line hospitals with morbidity/mortality statistics the envy of the world. Cash-on-the-barrelhead, no malpractice worries, no government mandates, no coding, ahhhh….heaven.

    Anyhow, I thought that, as a newly-minted retrospective fella, you would appreciate this:

    “I have often wondered at the smugness with which people assert their right to enslave me, to control my work, to force my will, to violate my conscience, to stifle my mind — yet what is it they expect to depend on when they lie on an operating table under my hands? Their moral code has taught them to believe that it is safe to rely on the virtue of the victims. Well, that is the virtue I have withdrawn. Let them discover the kind of doctors their system will now produce. Let them discover, in their operating rooms and hospital wards, that it is not safe to place their lives in the hands of a man whose life they have throttled. It is not safe, if he is the sort of man who resents it — and still less safe, if he is the sort who doesn’t.” –Dr. Thomas Hendricks, “Atlas Shrugged,” by Ayn Rand

  155. The new myth is much bolder than this. It insists that these events should decisively shape our understanding of conservatism and the modern Republican Party. Dan Carter writes that today’s conservatism must be traced directly back to the “politics of rage” that George Wallace blended from “racial fear, anticommunism, cultural nostalgia, and traditional right-wing economics.” Another scholar, Joseph Aistrup, claims that Reagan’s 1980 Southern coalition was “the reincarnation of the Wallace movement of 1968.” For the Black brothers, the GOP had once been the “party of Abraham Lincoln,” but it became the “party of Barry Goldwater,” opposed to civil rights and black interests. It is only a short step to the Democrats’ insinuation that the GOP is the latest exploiter of the tragic, race-based thread of U.S. history. In short, the GOP did not merely seek votes expediently; it made a pact with America’s devil.

    The mythmakers typically draw on two types of evidence. First, they argue that the GOP deliberately crafted its core messages to accommodate Southern racists. Second, they find proof in the electoral pudding: the GOP captured the core of the Southern white backlash vote. But neither type of evidence is very persuasive. It is not at all clear that the GOP’s policy positions are sugar-coated racist appeals. And election results show that the GOP became the South’s dominant party in the least racist phase of the region’s history, and got—and stays—that way as the party of the upwardly mobile, more socially conservative, openly patriotic middle-class, not of white solidarity.

    Let’s start with policies. Like many others, Carter and the Black brothers argue that the GOP appealed to Southern racism not explicitly but through “coded” racial appeals. Carter is representative of many when he says that Wallace’s racialism can be seen, varying in style but not substance, in “Goldwater’s vote against the Civil Rights Bill of 1964, in Richard Nixon’s subtle manipulation of the busing issue, in Ronald Reagan’s genial demolition of affirmative action, in George Bush’s use of the Willie Horton ads, and in Newt Gingrich’s demonization of welfare mothers.”

    The problem here is that Wallace’s segregationism was obviously racist, but these other positions are not obviously racist. This creates an analytic challenge that these authors do not meet. If an illegitimate viewpoint (racism) is hidden inside another viewpoint, that second view—to be a useful hiding place—must be one that can be held for entirely legitimate (non-racist) reasons. Conservative intellectuals might not always linger long enough on the fact that opposition to busing and affirmative action can be disguised racism. On the other hand, these are also positions that principled non-racists can hold. To be persuasive, claims of coding must establish how to tell which is which. Racial coding is often said to occur when voters are highly prone to understanding a non-racist message as a proxy for something else that is racist. This may have happened in 1964, when Goldwater, who neither supported segregation nor called for it, employed the term “states’ rights,” which to many whites in the Deep South implied the continuation of Jim Crow.

    The problem comes when we try to extend this forward. Black and Black try to do this by showing that Nixon and Reagan crafted positions on busing, affirmative action, and welfare reform in a political climate in which many white voters doubted the virtues of preferential hiring, valued individual responsibility, and opposed busing as intrusive. To be condemned as racist “code,” the GOP’s positions would have to come across as proxies for these views -and in turn these views would have to be racist. The problem is that these views are not self-evidently racist. Many scholars simply treat them as if they were. Adding insult to injury, usually they don’t even pause to identify when views like opposition to affirmative action would not be racist.

    In effect, these critics want to have it both ways: they acknowledge that these views could in principle be non-racist (otherwise they wouldn’t be a “code” for racism) but suggest they never are in practice (and so can be reliably treated as proxies for racism). The result is that their claims are non-falsifiable because they are tautological: these views are deemed racist because they are defined as racist. This amounts to saying that opposition to the policies favored by today’s civil rights establishment is a valid indicator of racism. One suspects these theorists would, quite correctly, insist that people can disagree with the Israeli government without being in any way anti-Semitic. But they do not extend the same distinction to this issue. This is partisanship posturing as social science.

  156. 184 Rutherford and everyone else, read Betsy’s page this morning and you will understand just how fishy the prisoner exchange was. I knew how bad Obama and his allies were before the first election, but they have sunk to levels I didn’t imagine.

    I have told you all how a job counselor told a Navy friend and me to hide our military pasts if we wanted employment in academia. Gorilla’s comment illustrates my good judgement in farming. I could have battled those intellectual fascists, but they would have ground me down.

    The internet, talk radio, and conservative leaders have given us a chance to defeat those people. It is hard to propagate believable lies when the truth is available.

    Parker, my wife and I gave three sisters a tour of their child hood home area because they had moved to California during the Depression and hadn’t come back. We stopped at an aroma berry farm.The owner has visited South America in search of herbs. She said Equidor also has clean, well-run hospitals and it is one reason North Americans are moving there to retire.

  157. The weather service forecasts a major severe weather outbreak with all forms of potential summery severe weather possible. I must return home soon because today, the TCA put me in charge of the Artists in the Park classes this afternoon, We could be in the news later.

  158. G you don’t find it odd that white perps are never described racially on the news but black ones are?” –

    HOLY SHIT! I CANT BELIEVE HOW FAR FROM REALITY YOU ARE.

    YOU ARE IMPOSSIBLE

  159. R, you really are out to lunch.

    Q: You want to know to tell if they’re black “perps?”

    A: They are not described racially on the news.

  160. G you very poorly evaded the question. On the nightly news you don’t hear “four white youths robbed a liquor store” but you sure as hell will know if they were black.

  161. Rutherford maybe it’s regional but in my parts thee dis trends towards no disclosure.
    Muffy I for one think BHO background made some people more open to vote for him so I think the dual 100% black lineage would be a different person, same outcome but less votes absolutely

  162. G the article you asked me to read reminds me of a book on libertarianism that I read a couple of months ago. Sounds like it was written by a 14 year old.

    Seems his biggest point was that compared to Wallace, Nixon was a civil rights pioneer. Well compared to Wallace, that’s not saying much.

    He doesn’t get under the percentages to prove that Wallace voters went to Humphrey. The raw numbers mean nothing.

    Finally his claim that Dems are afraid that the GOP will make inroads into the black voting bloc is preposterous. With the possible exception of Rand Paul, there is ZERO GOP outreach to blacks.

  163. Its looking more and more like the miserable tax paid fib-whore was paraded on TV by Obama to lie to our faces again.

    I hope she chokes to death on food or has a stroke or some natural act of God kills the cunt if she is lying on this one.

    Did people lose their lives because this guy deserted? And did the administration transform a traitor into a hero for political gain?

    I can’t believe how brazen it as all become.

    Disgusting.

  164. R, you want pandering. You want coddling. You want some free-bees.

    Free phones maybe? Get someone else to pay for your healthcare? Your food? Your entertainment?

    Your “outreach” essentially amounts to bribes for votes. ‘Promise us shit and we’ll vote for you, even if, ultimately, the decisions you’ll make will hurt us in the long term.

  165. “Is Bergdahl the GOP’s new Benghazi?”

    That’s the headline on MSNBC.com right now?

    That’s what passes as a news website?

  166. Outreach?

    Rutherford wouldn’t comment on Godzilla destroying the South side!

    Unless MSNBC claimed Godzilla was actually white and came from a background of “privilege”.

    Outreach for liberals equates to throwing raw meat into cage and pretending they don’t see the animals shred one another.

  167. “Nevertheless, Bergdahl has been condemned by the popular media, by social networks, by pundits and politicians, not because they know more about the situation than you or I do, but solely because they hate the president. If Obama was behind Bergdahl’s release, then Bergdahl is a traitor, Q.E.D. because the president must never, ever, be allowed even the slightest acknowledgement of patriotism.

    This condemnation isn’t about Bergdahl, it’s about Obama.”

    http://www.stonekettle.com/2014/06/negotiating-with-terrorists.html

  168. Lurker….what about the numerous soldiers who served with him? You think this is a swift boat type thing?

  169. Army Sgt. Evan Buetow, team leader, says other wise. And you know what, I believe him over Susan Rice. Do you blame me? And would you look Sgt. Buetow in the eyes and call him a liar?

    So you are expecting me to not believe his team leader and believe Rice. Okedoky.

  170. Lurker, what does stonekettle know that soldiers on the ground at the time didn’t?

    Lagged behind on patrol? Lie.
    Combat hero? Lie.

    Is Obama getting criticized? Of course, not because he’s black, or because this is a knee jerk reaction to something Obama did, but because this was a really bad idea and completely against the law:

    CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin declared on Monday that President Barack Obama “broke the law” when his administration failed to give Congress notice of at least 30 days before releasing five ranking Taliban members from Guantanamo Bay. Toobin said that a presidential signing statement did not absolve Obama from culpability for failing to abide by the law mandating congressional notification.

    “I think he clearly broke the law,” Toobin said. “The law says 30-days’ notice. He didn’t give 30-days’ notice.” Toobin added that Obama’s opinion expressed in a signing statement “is not law.”

    “The law is on the books, and he didn’t follow it,” Toobin added.

    CNN anchor Wolf Blitzer noted that former President George W. Bush also issued signing statements even though they thought their action may not have been constitutional or legal. “But liberals were outraged by George W. Bush’s signing statements,” Toobin noted.

    As for the premise:

    But officials in the Pentagon and intelligence communities had successfully fought off release of the five men in the past, officials tell Time. “This was out of the norm,” says one official familiar with the debate over the dangers of releasing the five Taliban officials. “There was never the conversation.” Obama’s move was an ultimate victory for those at the White House and the State Department who had previously argued the military should “suck it up and salute,” says the official familiar with the debate.

    TIME

    And:

    (CNN) – Former Army Sgt. Evan Buetow was the team leader with Bowe Bergdahl the night Bergdahl disappeared.

    “Bergdahl is a deserter, and he’s not a hero,” says Buetow. “He needs to answer for what he did.”

    Within days of his disappearance, says Buetow, teams monitoring radio chatter and cell phone communications intercepted an alarming message: The American is in Yahya Khel (a village two miles away). He’s looking for someone who speaks English so he can talk to the Taliban.

    “I heard it straight from the interpreter’s lips as he heard it over the radio,” said Buetow. “There’s a lot more to this story than a soldier walking away.”

    But to trade these five, is unconscionable. Especially since the Regime has tried to paint this as a “prisoner transfer” instead of what it is, a prisoner release…

    The Gulf official said the Taliban men, who have been granted Qatari residency permits, will not be treated like prisoners while in Doha and no U.S. officials will be involved in monitoring their movement while in the country.

    “Under the deal they have to stay in Qatar for a year and then they will be allowed to travel outside the country… They can go back to Afghanistan if they want to,” the official said.

    Of course, this is ultimately the problem with this:

    KABUL (Reuters) – The release of five Taliban prisoners in exchange for a U.S. soldier has drawn criticism from some Afghans, who say the detainees are dangerous and will rekindle ties with terrorist networks to resume fighting, just as most foreign troops leave.

    The men had been held at the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba since 2002 and were classed by the Pentagon as “high-risk” and “likely to pose a threat”.

    Two are also implicated in the murder of thousands of minority Shiite Muslims in Afghanistan, according to the U.S. military.

    They were released in a swap with U.S. army sergeant Bowe Bergdahl, the sole American prisoner of war held in Afghanistan who was flown to a U.S. military hospital in Germany on Sunday.

    “They will definitely go back to fight, if health-wise they are able to go,” said a top official at Afghanistan’s spy agency, who asked to remain anonymous because of the sensitivity of the topic.

    “They will be very dangerous people, because they have connections with regional and international terror organizations around the world.”

  171. Ahhhh G the second excerpt I read from you sounded like an adult wrote it. And I actually agree with it. “Code” can be a convenient way of labeling anything you don’t agree with as racist.

  172. The Time article G dropped includes a noteworthy cut regards the Presidents power to do exactly what he has done.

    Rutherford is hereby awarded a Vindication Medal given his much attacked statement regards dysfunctional government gets you a dictator etc.
    Folks are cheerleading the notion these five guys were the worse heathens on Earth,well second to POTUS still but… yet where have these folks been on every election day since 2001? No trials! No “accidents”,no “tragically shot whilst trying to escape” episodes for these guys. I actually would’ve voted for that last one. Two Administrations and we’ve done shit regards these guys except when you take into account they have always been a key to negotiations with the Taliban.

    Hate to harp on this as well but the Furry Five who indeed are totally death worthy,yet probably not viewed by many internationally and definitely not themselves as so off base regards their relations with the USA.
    Most of them were members of a sitting functioning albeit insane government. People think Taliban and only see the Shiite massacre and ghoulish use for national soccer fields. They never remember the gas and pipeline negotiations they held the biggest pitching the US against Argentina.

    Bottomline there is indeed plenty of things that smell really bad about this whole scene. The thing is though it is ultimately about attempting to stabilize the region and face the realities that involves.

  173. So for a week straight I’ve been hitting snappy grounders at my 4 year old and teaching him how to get motherfuckers out. I also showed no mercy when I got him out in other drills. ( Me and another Dad in the neighborhood run these unofficial practices for fun).

    Now…take in mind he’s been wrestling for 6 months and is fully of aware what true victory and true failure feels like.

    My kid makes to clean plays in tee ball. 2 outs.

    Nope. Kids aren’t allowed to be out. There would be too much crying they tell us. Now take in mind…the only kids who made an out were the two kids my boy got out. So it doesn’t even hardly happen. Plus this league is for learning we are told.

    Yeah learning. My kid is baffled. Great learning. As if making an out in baseball is so terrible that the kids can’t cope with this injustice.

    Fucking liberals. They even ruin tee ball.

  174. I don’t and never have liked or trusted Rice. I have said time and again I find Obama inept and out of his league.
    I simply don’t get how especially after Benghazi the Admin goes this route of Rice and soft peddling. I’ve got nothing on that one rabbit,nada

  175. I find what we do to little kids sad. I’ve seen kids get sad,he’ll really crushed about being “out”,but then the same kid gets the great lesson baseball offers,”you’re up again kid”,time to try again

  176. Alfie,

    I’m a little confused. You claimed with confidence that this was something the President won’t be gloating over. No, this is just the kind of sausage that is made when wars wind down.

    Yet the next morning the administration is doing the Sunday talk show circuit telling us about the hero they freed. You think the stink beards aren’t watching?

    I’ll be honest, I’m not knowledgeable how wars often wind down. I can’t confidently use Piracy in the Mediterranean during the Jefferson Era as precedent. I also don’t have a grasp of the Constitutionality of the president releasing stink beards from Gitmo with out Congressional consent.

    I do know weakness when I see it. And I do know the mind of thugs.

    You don’t think this made us look incredibly weak? Pretending we are trading POW’s?

    That guy wasn’t a POW!

    Why not just release the 5? Why trade and put us all at more risk? Didn’t you just go overseas?

    They are laughing at us. Targets on many people’s back now for abduction.

    That lie by administration can not be tolerated. People died looking for this traitor.

    Alfie. You are wrong. This is not business as usual.

  177. “Rabbit there is something about this swap we are not being told. I have no idea what is.”

    Maybe.

    Explain the administrations lies on Sunday morning.

  178. When the administration speaks, it lies. That is their native language. How long does it take to get a clue?

  179. Holy shit. Rachel Maddow has an article at MSNBC.com saying the solider was Swiftboated in the headlines.

    I actually used that term sarcastically with lurker but indeed, the left thinks the traitor is being swiftboated.

    Unreal.

    Impossible to deal with.

    Rutherford….you have got to back off that channel.

  180. Severe thunderstorms with damaging base ball sized hail, 80 MPH wind and as much as five or six inches of rain continues for a while. I am back in Omaha for the night after a storm blew down at least six trees up to over 2 feet in diameter. One landed on our garage and inflicted serious damage.Center pivots were turned over, and the Omaha air port was closed for several hours.

    I thought I would be trapped in a dark house until a neighbor used his skid loader to remove the trees from our drive way so I could drive to Omaha,. . He will be back tomorrow to pile up the trees. I have to perform at Artists in the Park again,

    The administration is lying about the swap. That man should be tried for desertion according to military authorities and his own soldier companions . An administration official admitted they thought getting this man would be like freeing the Iranian hostage. It would be a public relations coup.

    Fools.

  181. What if the White House inner circle is actually completely out of the loop when it comes to intelligence and reality on the ground?

    In other words….what if Obama’s leadership is so bad, that his administration acts in a total vacuum devoid of any facts. They just rush out what they think will score the moat political points then play fix it for years after with a docile press.

    It would explain Benghazi…would explain the new meaning “honor and distinction” .

    Holy shit. I just got the chills.

    I just don’t get what happened this weekend.

    Its so fucking weird Rice was lying again.

  182. James…..you think the administration actually thought this would be regarded universally as a feather in their cap?

    They are that detached?

    Holy shit….you can’t be right.

  183. “Unless MSNBC claimed Godzilla was actually white and came from a background of “privilege”. ”

    Sorry if you didn’t mean for that to be funny cos it cracked me up.

  184. Lurker on this one I’m not siding with Obama just yet. In one way or another we are being lied to. You don’t trade dangerous terrorists for a traitor. Something is very wrong here. And Bergdahl’s father is an anti-Gitmo crackpot. Makes you say mmmm.

  185. Thanks G. That takes care of the question “why Bergdahl and not someone else?” That’s what I was wondering.

    It now appears that Bergdahl’s health was not in grave danger. G, you think maybe the “regime” as you like to call it thinks Bergdahl is a spy and this was the only way to extradite him from a country with which we have no extradition treaty?

  186. “They’re really underestimating the fury over this,” Wellman said. “It’s a tidal wave of anger.”

    Since R, or Lurker, don’t respond intelligently to questions, or offer thoughts beyond single syllable diatribes, a question to the board:

    Does Bergdahl and the release of the Taliban Five impact the mid-term elections?

    Personally, I think this is a powder keg that is blowing up in the face of the President and his Regime. How it affects the Dems is yet to be seen, but I’m guessing they bail on POTUS ASAP to avoid being collateral casualties to this. I just wonder if they’ll be able to get enough distance.

  187. It doesn’t take a mental giant to reply to your ridiculous assertion that Dems are somehow unique in promising “freebies” to their supporters.

    By the way, the GOP does not need to play identity politics in order to speak at black churches, community centers and other places where blacks might congregate. THAT is outreach. The GOP has no problem speaking at NRA gatherings and “value voters summits”.

    The reason I mentioned Rand Paul earlier is he has sought out traditionally black venues to spread his message.

    Again how can Dems be worried about the GOP making inroads with blacks if GOP’ers never go where more than two blacks are gathered together?

  188. Diane Feinstein has already bailed on him.

    Funny, I can already see that no matter how loudly I say this stinks to high heaven, G will ignore it and say I’m taking the opposite position.

  189. Hahahaha, fuck no. If I had to pick a conspiracy, it would be that this was a test balloon to see how folks would react to the Regime just letting people go out of GITMO.

    So Monday morning, this discussion happens at work:

    Me – So, it sounds like POTUS didn’t notify Congress as required by law.

    Colleague – So, what’s Congress gonna do about it?

    THAT pissed me off to no end. We’re a nation of laws. That is what separates us from dictatorships and banana republics, but this Regime has flagrantly violated so many laws, and the our law enforcement officials are just as corrupt, that there is no recourse.

    Perjury is a big deal, but folks wanted to give Clinton a pass because he was caught cheating on his wife. He was embarrassed so we shouldn’t be surprised he told a little white lie, I mean, it isn’t like he broke any laws (outside of his oath to tell the truth).

    Here, we have a Man-child who flagrantly breaks the law in releasing prisoners without notifying Congress. This same Man-child has repeatedly broken the law with regards to Obamacare, flagrantly changing things beyond the scope of his authorities and in direct contravention to what the law states. We also have the same Man-child refusing to enforce the laws on the books in immigration, and is changing immigration policy despite what the law states.

    If there was ever a case for impeachment, Barack Hussein Obama is the poster child for such. We’re not talking partisanship, we’re talking clear cut cases of breaking the law. Period.

    But that’ll never happen. Dems will allow the Regime to break any law it wants as long as it fits their political mantra. Rule of law? Shiiiiiiiiitttttttttttt.

    If the word impeachment is even remotely uttered, it’ll be, “Oh, the GOP just wants to get the black man out of the White house. Uppity Nigger, get back where you belong, blah, blah, blah…”

    This is ultimately what you embrace. This is what your political “solidarity” have come to. Laws? Why bother…

  190. Because Feinstein is pissed she wasn’t told. I’m not a big fan of hers, but she seems like she might be on the verge of the group of Dems that could possible put their party aside and actually enforce Congress’s role of oversight, but she is a lone voice in that.

  191. As for stinking, this stench has been peculating from the Regime for YEARS. What’s new here? Really, what is new?

    Regime breaks law. Public outrage. Regime ignores. House attempts oversight, called racist. Regime ignores. Senate does nothing. Repeat.

    The list of scandals afflicting this Regime is remarkably long. Most of us have forgotten several of them. What does that say?

  192. Rabbit, I heard it on the news this morning that the administration thought releasing that man would be a public relations success. I don’t remember the man’s name.He said the administration is shocked.

    Diane Fienstien has shown flashes of independence before. I hope one of them takes.

    “What does that say?” 247. It says too many people like Lurker live in this country, and are also working in the administration and in the press. A poll cited on Coast to Coast early this morning found that 44% of Republicans would support armed insurrection. I assume that number will rise as time passes.

    Sami singer Sofia Jannok calls the Swedish government the “Regime” and the “Occupying Regime.”We have the same here,
    A local radio talker said a few minutes ago that Obama is the president Nixon wanted to be. However, Nixon actually knew how to govern and he did some good with his evil.

  193. Another commentator said that most people have no connection with the military. They have little concept of the meaning and significance of desertion. In the past, soldiers were shot for desertion.

    I’d be upset, but we have too much storm damage to worry about,

  194. Once again, you should read Betsy’s Page this morning. From her links, one can correctly imply that the administration secretly doesn’t understand or like our military. They are no different than the anti -war protesters who slimed returning soldiers during the Vietnam War.

    People like Lurker support this Occupying Regime because they don’t know or care about our military though they may give politically correct lip service. They also don’t really care about our lower and middle class.

    Lurker’s comment and quotation were so ridiculous I am responding in kind when I cast aspersions on her lack of concern about people who matter.

  195. re: outing and “boredom brings out the worst”

    There’s a simple cure. Work like a field n**ger every day until sweat runs down the crack of your arse. It improves one’s outlook wonderfully, and makes for better company. Idleness it the truest fodder for poor behaviour.

    Proverbs 16:27 Idle hands are the devil’s workshop; idle lips are his mouthpiece, literally, “A worthless man devises mischief; and in his lips there is a scorching fire.”

    Speaking of Proverbs: James – I’ve been watching US radar. It looks like you are catching proverbial hell. Trust you and yours are well. All best to you. P.

  196. “If there was ever a case for impeachment, Barack Hussein Obama is the poster child for such. We’re not talking partisanship, we’re talking clear cut cases of breaking the law. Period.”

    G I’m willing to meet you half way on this. I believe impeachment is truly the course of last resort. The process paralyzes the country and potentially hurts our global image.

    Until now I didn’t think Congress had much fuel despite your litany of abuses. But I think this Bergdahl thing may have legs. As I said before Obama appears to be an increasingly clueless leader who is letting things spin out of control. He can’t trust his advisors any further than he can throw them. And whether or not you want to acknowledge it, being black can cut both ways.

    “We can’t impeach the first black POTUS”

    or

    “Never trusted that affirmative action Negro in the first place.”

  197. And I’m from El Salvador. That crazy pfucker Pfarkpfesser who’s not from the US just has a peculiar level of interest in US weather and Virginia’s race for attorney general.

    Sorry Pfarkey, no one here not even Rutherford believes you or Susan Rice anymore.

  198. Now the administration is in a pissing match with the platoon that lost guys trying to find the traitor.

    I was baffled about the Benghazi lies. But this…..this is the weirdest thing I’ve ever seen in politics.

    Why would you send the known liar to make new lies about something that people already know the truth about?

    I can’t believe this administration is the incompetent. If James is correct this is scary. Or have we entered new waters….where are leaders are not even superficially held accountable when it comes to the truth…banana republic style. Option B is horrifying.

    I really want some insight into this. I’ve been listening to big name liberal podcasts and they are really saying all of this is happening because Obama is black. I swear.

    This unreal.

    People should vote Republican every time when it comes to the Presidency just so we can have a 4th estate.

    This country is so fucked up.

  199. I’d prefer to replace “field n” with “Hebrew slave”. I got that from Glassdoor.com where someone said my employer works us like a Hebrew slave. I laughed all night after reading that. Sadly it’s true.

  200. And why did Obama have that awkward photo opp/press conference standing next to the weirdo Dad? Why the big orchestration?

    They can’t be this stupid. I refuse to belief the most powerful man on the planet is this disconnected from the very people he supposedly serves.

    I now am even more interested in Benghazi.

    My God, man. These people are liars on a Twilight Zone level.

    News media! I beg of you! WTF is going on? What does this mean?

  201. The only thing I can imagine is that the admin is so desperate for a photo op that they engineered the Rose Garden announcement without thinking about the later blowback.

    This Bergdahl thing puzzles the shit out of me. Dude was clearly not dying. Why not give Congress the 30 days notice? Did Taliban call all the shots on this “negotiation”? Is the USA now the Taliban’s bitch?

    To echo Rabbit, WTF is going on?

  202. Yes Parker, it was interesting. I just returned home as a neighbor and skid loader are removing our trees. It is going to be a big job. My wife will be shocked at the changes, including the sad state of our garage.

    “We can’t impeach the first black POTUS.” Of course we can. We impeach his white half.

  203. I think Obama thought he’d look like a hero. He is that incompetent.

    Of course his adherents in the media had always bought what he was selling.

    There’s only one thing that motivates Obama — elections and vanity.

    The IRS scandal is even more troubling in its abuse of power. If it is directly tied to Obama, that should be impeachable.

  204. Nothing’s going to happen as a result of this. How long before Feinstein falls back in line? 2-3 days most likely. Everybody plays ball with this administration no matter how much he cheats or drops the ball. 1) He wants to close Gitmo and 2) he’s piling on the scandals to bury the ones that can hurt him. Nice insurance policy.

    Rutherford probably still thinks Obama’s a moderate. When I first read R’s “But I think this Bergdahl thing may have legs” I thought I’d read “Benghazi.” Like he’d had a real epiphany as a result of this latest skullduggery that might have caused him to rethink things in a broader sense going all the way back to Libya. Nothing personal about this R but I think you’re condition is permanent.

    They will not even court marshall this POS.

  205. Rutherford yes even my cab driver today made reference to it pissing him off (true story) but it’s barely over 50/50 against it. Look at Lurker up there. They are legion. Listen to Reid.

    Report back after Pumkinhead tonight though. 😉

    Libs are “concerned” at best. Pardon my stereotyping.

  206. I forget what poll I saw earlier today but it was 47% opposed to the exchange and 45% for it.

    For it. I kid not.

  207. dead rabbit first off my comment on the Barbary War was in regards to the legal justification of starting the Afghan War not the winding down.
    Your big on history tell me all the wheres and hows that what has been going on in Afghanistan for some time doesn’t resemble Vietnam. James chime in if you care.

  208. I personally don’t give a shit if Bowe dies in his sleep tonight and I am by no means to be confused with an Obama supporter. That said I am truly angry at how disgustingly,disturbingly and noxiously stupid my country is.

    In for a penny in for a pound folks here I go:

    We lost Afghanistan people and its a fucking shame we did because too many good people did a lot of good and a lot of dying to come up with the result this latest incident is but a primer for.

    The Taliban has been engaged diplomatically by many players and guess what? Our “allies” in Kabul and Islamabad have been turning over Taliban players like fucking Uno cards.

    Irony, oversight or whatever the Taliban is not actually listed as a terrorist organization.

    Obama is being called out for sanction on this matter in the highest order of hypocrisy. Did he break the law? Yeah he did even though it is a law which in its own right is probably illegal. Fact of the matter is what we’re allegedly outraged about the most is exactly what happens when a bipartisan Congress goes AWOL on their posts and governs and funds wars via extensions and memos.

    I hear one more GOP talking head say “Back in the fight” regards the Furry Five I will fucking puke. One of the five likely had AQ connections. One of the fuckers has been deemed a moderate by almost all parties other than the USA and has been the source of multiple calls for release prior to this. Yeah beating the dead horse all of them shit bags,all of them should have been sent to the ICC for their actual real crimes. Instead we held them without trial or any real plan and with zero impact on a plethora of kooks taking up arms against our people.
    Gorilla made a comment earlier and he’s 100% right. What are you all going to say when Obama (most likely) next POTUS DEFINITELY does empty Gitmo at least of Taliban.

    Fuck it if anyone has made it this far….
    What bothers you the most about this whole thing? The release? Bowe? The POTUS? The Law? I’d love to know.

  209. This Bergdahl thing puzzles the shit out of me. Dude was clearly not dying. Why not give Congress the 30 days notice? Did Taliban call all the shots on this “negotiation”? Is the USA now the Taliban’s bitch?

    The timing is all about the Afghan presidential election

  210. What bothers me is that they looked right into the Sunday morning camera and lied to us again. Why?

    They are so low that they tried to score cheese dick political points by throwing shit in the faces of those who served in that platoon?

    Release the fucking stink beards if its so important (the legal way). Why trade?

    Trying to make this into some chivalrous bull shit, 5 pikes for our heroic Knight…everyone of us now getting dusted with a faint target on our back….fuck that.

    Obama’s perverted lust for a bump in the polls is so great they dishonored the bravest of us while weakening our image greatly yet again.

    There will be a cost to this.

    Call it “emotion” all you want. Wrong is wrong.

  211. In no particular order:

    The lies.
    The deserter.
    The dad.
    The lies.
    The president.
    Susan Rice.
    Congress.
    The lies.
    The trade.
    The taliban.
    The media.
    The lies.
    The accusations of right wing conspiracies.
    The accusations of racism.
    The accusations of the joy of hate.
    The lies.
    The terrorists.
    The wars.
    The lies.

    You get the idea.

  212. Rare political discussion started by my wife:
    (All of this goes down in ten seconds).

    Wife:
    “What was the crazy guy with the beard saying standing next to President Obama at the White House?”

    Me:

    I don’t know. Let me turn on MSNBC.

    MSNBC:

    More news on the Clippers.

    Me:

    Who gives a fuck about the Clippers.

    Wife:

    What are the Clippers?

    Me:

    A basketb…..never mind. Let me put on FOX.

    FOX (SEAN HANNITY):

    What exactly did the that guy say standing next to Obama?

    Wife:

    Ha ha

    Me:

    Speak of the Devil.

    Guest on Fox:

    The famous Islamic prayer after victory in a battle.

    Wife:

    Look at Obama smiling.

    Hannity:

    Look at Obama smiling.

    Me:

    He looks so weird standing next to that dude.

    Me: Did the Tigers win………

    Wife:

    We have a spider problem

    *********************

    OK so I took it 15 seconds

  213. The lies, overreach (again ignoring an entire branch of government) and business as usual. Why are we guessing at the motives? How do you presume it was honorable when they’re shrouded in bullshit? Coming out of Benghazi and VA, this looks like a political calculation not a military one. Both parties are asking, “what have we done and why have we done it?” The last source of info for the answers that can be trusted is the one that carried out.

  214. Alfie, are you saying that since Obama plans to empty GITMO he might as well get something for it while he can?

  215. Alfie what bothers me is I just don’t understand it. Why the need to lie about Bowe’s status. Why the grandeur when they could have kept it in the down low? I don’t like the fishyness or the stupidity.

    I know you guys don’t like BO but I honestly thought he was smarter than that.

  216. “Does a grown man forget how to speak his native language after not doing so for 5 years?”

    Yup that’s some weird shit too. The whole thing is weird.

    I heard earlier the homecoming festivities have been cancelled “for safety reasons.”

  217. Obviously…

    CNN chief political analyst Gloria Borger stated that a national security source not inside the Obama administration told her that “sometimes you don’t ask a question when you know what the answer’s going to be” in a discussion on the failure of the president to notify Congress about the exchange for Bowe Bergdahl. Borger responded affirmatively when host Wolf Blitzer clarified by asking if this mean asking “because they would have been opposed?” Borger also agreed with Blitzer when he stated “the president had clearly made up his mind what he wanted to do.”

  218. I used to love it when the circus came to town. Now I am tired of the performances and tricks and wish all those carnies would pack it up and leave.

  219. At this point, why bother, but this goes to show just how partisan this Regime is…

    The White House reached out to Senate Intelligence Committee chairman Dianne Feinstein following the Bowe Bergdahl exchange, but has yet to call up her House counterpart, Republican Mike Rogers, he says.

    Feinstein received a call from the White House apologizing for the fact that she wasn’t contacted before the swap and explaining the administration’s reasoning for that decision. But Rogers, who heads the House Intelligence Committee, told MSNBC’s Andrea Mitchell that he still hasn’t been contacted.

    Rogers is a member of the “Gang of Eight,” a group of eight congressional leaders who are typically briefed on classified intelligence matters by the White House — the Senate and House intel-committee chairmen and ranking members and each party’s leader in each house. Of the eight, apparently only Senate majority leader Harry Reid was notified about the swap before it occurred. A congressional statute, Rogers argued, requires 30 days’ notice.

  220. G, that’s the shit that makes my blood boil. I believe the dems that want to keep their jobs are expressing their first criticisms of our imperial president out of self preservation. They really don’t give a flying fuck about not being notified. They want to pretend that they had objections to distance themselves from it all. Had it actually been put to the dems, they’d go along with as with everything else.

    Simply, reading anything into the “bi-partisan” outrage because it’s “bi-partisan” is pure folly — even if it roils the protective Obama media machine which is just plain “confused” on how to present this (truth and investigation having nothing to do with it).

    If the public’s reaction was what King Obama expected, “euphoria” and hero’s welcome (the hero to be Obama himself of course), the dem reaction would be nothing but approval regardless of the 30 day notice rule.

    And I know you’ve seen that Tri Delt pledge with prop glasses that speaks for the State Department imitating the finger wagging, arrogant, confrontational “you question us? then fuck you” twit they put out there. Typical — and infuriating. Well, here it is if you haven’t seen it if you can stomach it:

    All of the weirdness aside, this is just more proof of what a fuck wad Obama is. Just. More. Proof. (as though there wasn’t plenty of it before up to now).

    Alfie, the dictatorial bent is because of permissiveness, not because of non functioning government. Hopefully the end of that media sponsored passivity is near.

  221. Unsurprising…

    A Taliban commander close to the negotiations over the release of U.S. Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl told TIME Thursday that the deal made to secure Bergdahl’s release has made it more appealing for fighters to capture American soldiers and other high-value targets.

    “It’s better to kidnap one person like Bergdahl than kidnapping hundreds of useless people,” the commander said, speaking by telephone on condition of anonymity because he is not authorized to speak to the media. “It has encouraged our people. Now everybody will work hard to capture such an important bird.”

    The commander has been known to TIME for several years and has consistently supplied reliable information about Bergdahl’s captivity.

  222. Tigre all I’m really saying is that regardless the circus show what the release is based in most is regional stability and the Afghan elections latter this month

  223. I’m sorry as stupid as I think the tweet is I don’t buy the guy as the official position of the WH on the matter.
    Brandon Friedman joined the Obama administration in 2014 as the General Deputy Assistant Secretary for Public Affairs at the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development.

  224. “Tigre all I’m really saying is that regardless the circus show what the release is based in most is regional stability ”

    Alphy,

    3 days ago a small part of your argument rested on a prediction that there would be no circus.

    Even if you are correct, don’t you think the ultimate goal of “stability” might be compromised because of this circus?

    If so…..well….get your outrage on with the rest of us.

  225. “Tigre all I’m really saying is that regardless the circus show what the release is based in most is regional stability and the Afghan elections latter this month.”

    Then that case needed to be made rather than bullshit being hung out there now, don’t you think?

    I saw that Panetta has taken the “Back in the fight” regards the Furry Five” was concern that he shares and was ignored. WTF? I’m not saying either of you is right, but I think you’re pretty dismissive of this aspect of the outrage.

    As for the Brandon Friedman tweet, it’s not he’s the official spokesperson of Pepsi. It’s that the tweet looks like a test balloon deliberately put out by someone that wouldn’t be immediately associated with the higher ups — at least according to the commentators that seem to follow the twitterverse (which sure as shit ain’t Tigre the luddite). I mean, the “swift boating” term has already been put in play. That sure looks to me like the rhetorical excrement of the WH defenders to me — and given what I’ve read, pretty loathsome when applied to the service members that are willing to speak out.

    Thoughts on everyone’s answer to your question?

  226. You know DR and Alfie, doesn’t that Susan Rice bit about serving with “honor and distinction” get under your skin? Followed by the Kerry “swift boating” refrain? Fuck Kerry threw away his meddles, rallied against his fellow service members (accusing them all of committing atrocities for sport), dissociated himself from the US military in every conceivable way — then had the fucking temerity to run on his service record in an effort to obtain office.

    Those swift boaters were rightly pissed. I think these soldiers are rightly pissed. And the calculus that leads Obama to fucking do what he’s done through Rice makes me fucking pissed. It’s Obama’s contempt that for us and the guys he commands that I can’t get my head around. A monster has been created.

  227. The more I think about it the – not funnier but something – it strikes me what if a few months from now one of these furballs was walking out to the mailbox and looked up to see whatever it is you see when you’re about to get droned.

    What would McCain rush out to suck off a mocrohone about then?

  228. “Any chance Obama released them to drone them?”

    Probably some pretty bad precedent for future prisoner swaps.

    But I sure as hell hope we implanted chips or tracking or something to drone the others.

    This has got to be all about clearing Guantanamo done only as recklessly as this arrogant and incompetent administration could carry out.

    The only miscalculation I see is Obama’s overestimation of the media’s dick sucking. He doesn’t know how to operate without it.

  229. I’m having a looooooonnnngggg day @ work and hate typing on phone. ET I’ll hit you with a response later but for now thx for the feedback so far

  230. G – I realize no one read Stonekettle although they may have agreed with him on some points.

    Dr – No I don’t think Bowe is being swift boated. It seems he left on his own…deserted, AWOL etc. I would be interested in knowing his reason. Disillusioned with the war….I don’t blame him.

    Nor do I blame his team mates for being angry with him. You don’t walk out. Are all the soldier’s deaths (8?) directly related to searching for Bowe? Does it matter? No they need someone to blame. Personally I blame the people who sent them to war.

    But we don’t leave someone behind even a deserter. Bring him home and try him.

    ? – “You don’t think this made us look incredibly weak? Pretending we are trading POWs? That guy wasn’t a POW!” Was he free to leave where he was being kept??

    Negotiations for transfer of prisoners have been going on for five years. The Taliban wanted more then we wanted to give. Was the time running out where Bowe was a no longer a value to trade? If the Taliban could not get what they wanted would they kill him? Is this a reason for the rush?

    The right complained when we did not bring him home earlier now they are complaining we brought him home. If Obama left him to die that would really get their dicks in a twist. There is no winning I think.

    James – yeah you are right the Republicans or was it you love the troops more than the Dems or is it me. Stick it! Did you learn nothing going through your 50’s?

    R – What ticks me off is that when some happens the first thing said is – We can impeach him on this!!!! It is like this great massive orgasmic roar comes from the GOP. OH MY god WE CAN IMPEACH. YES! YES! YES! Like impeachment would put a Republican in the Presidency and all would be well. I am not sure what you call it but it definitely a mental derangement. No wonder the world is laughing at us.

    I guess they could bump off Biden and put Boner in office. Just what this country deserves – a drunk in the driver’s seat…..with a gun?

  231. You don’t blame him.

    Of course you don’t. And that is exactly our point.

    Want him tried? But not upset that the administration already weighed in by declaring him a soldier that served “honorably and with distinction”?

    Nothing on the fact that was a blatant lie?

  232. “But we don’t leave someone behind even a deserter. Bring him home and try him.”

    What happens the day we don’t pay the ransom? Or we will no matter what it is?

  233. “Does it matter? No they need someone to blame.” Lurker

    Wow. “Does it matter? No….they need someone to blame.”

    There you go Rutherford….I’ll let your fellow liberal’s comment stand on its own.

  234. “Does it matter?”

    Yes. Yes it does.

    Reid said the same thing today when asked if he was given notification about the swap.

  235. “Are all the soldier’s deaths (8?) directly related to searching for Bowe? Does it matter? No they need someone to blame. Personally I blame the people who sent them to war.”

    WTF??

  236. Is anyone watching MSNBC?

    It’s fascinating. It really is like watching government broadcasting in Egypt.

    If one never turned off that channel here is what you would believe:

    President Obama and team are 100% confident in their roll out. There is no mention of the Susan Rice lie at all. This was perfectly executed and we should all be celebrating in the streets. In fact, most people are. Its only these right wing politicians and FOX News raining on the party because of Obama hate.

    Meanwhile, you turn the channel to FOX and they have half dozen guys who served with the traitor. The ones the administration have attacked. And they are pissed.

    While the nation gets furious WITH THEM, turn back to MSNBC and catch an echo of Jay Carney with pictures. Administration TV. And man is out of step with the country right now.

  237. Tigre… that link makes a scary suggestion. If true Obama and team are evil geniuses. I stress the evil part.

  238. Just think….there are millions of people like Lurker. If we concede that Obama surrounds himself with Lurkers as advisers, their roll out makes perfect sense.

    I might not be a war vet. But her cartoon like and flippant take on what it means to have buddies you care about while serving makes me sad.

    I mean that too. My emotion is sadness.

    She doesn’t blame the guy who back stabbed his fellow soldiers in a combat zone. That was a reasonable thing to do in her world.

    She doesn’t understand how bad she has trashed every war vet with an HONORABLE DISCHARGE.

    Her dime store psychoanalysis of the guys who lost friends over there on the other hand, makes me want to verbally abuse her.

    I am not going to though.

    Nothing exposes the left more then her running her flap trap.

    She is an evidence exhibit for why I am so many moons apart from the left.

    Exhibit A. Lurker.

  239. Honestly, I’m bummed Gorilla will probably read what Lurker wrote.

    If this was real life I would distract G from her by buying him rounds on my side of the bar just so his blood pressure doesn’t rise.

  240. Heh. “Libs people.” No idea what I meant to say but you get the idea.

    I actually heard Tingles talking a few minutes of sense the other night. I might have been hallucinating because it hasn’t happened since. Hayes I have yet to hear say anything worth listening to and Rachel Maddow is dead to me. Can’t even look at still pictures. Blech.

  241. Rabbit you’re full of shit. As you might guess I too have watched MSNBC and the full spectrum of reactions are represented. From both Joe AND Mika saying what the fuck to Ed Schultz predictably crying anti-Obama conspiracy. That is why I know this has legs — because the so-called lib media cannot connect the dots and is crapping its pants.

  242. Rutherford you’re way overstating the notion that the reactions on msnbc have been either full spectrum or balanced.

    Its also not merely a so-called lib media. The media is overwhelmingly liberal and in POV and reporting.

  243. R, I’ve tuned in to MSNBC and FOX at prime time two nights in a row because I’m so mystified over the latest lies. I probably have spent ten minutes on MSNBC and 10 minutes on Fox.

    Honestly, I don’t know how watch these politics shows.

    I don’t care if its Fox or MSNBC.

    Its never new info or even new opinion. Boring.

    Charles Kraut is the only guy I really enjoy catching on TV.

  244. “Rutherford you’re way overstating the notion that the reactions on msnbc have been either full spectrum or balanced. ”

    You’re obviously not watching. I stand by my statement. Balance doesn’t mean they need to scream impeachment.

  245. Why would I lie about watching msnbc? You’re being ridiculous.

    I’m not watching like you’re watching but the fact that I think that msnbc is the antithesis of balanced or that I haven’t caught the parade of GOPers screaming for impeachment doesn’t invalidate my observations.

  246. Why hasn’t Berdahl arrived in the US yet?” – Muffy

    There is protocol for repatriation. He has to go through counseling and medical examinations, etc. He’ll probably be in Germany for about a month before they bring him back. This is all SOP.

    If this was real life I would distract G from her by buying him rounds on my side of the bar just so his blood pressure doesn’t rise.” – DR

    When I read that she didn’t bother to answer anything that I wrote (is this a liberal thing or what?), I stopped reading.

    But Rabbit, we both know that if this were real life, you’d be buying me shots to see if I’d fuck her. Or talking football. Or maybe both….

  247. Ha. Muffy invalidated first. R you loudly pronounced a disinterest in MSNBC months ago, preferring dancing with the stars. Similarity in observations is coincidence. 😆

    It’s cute when R gets all protective of his window on the world. . . err. . . outlet that he doesn’t even pay attention to but knows it to be objective and balanced. 😆

  248. “But Rabbit, we both know that if this were real life, you’d be buying me shots to see if I’d fuck her. Or talking football. Or maybe both….”

    😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

  249. I haven’t had time to read much here, though I did see Rabbit’s comment about Lurker and assume she posted again, I also want to compare my impression of Afghanistan and Vietnam as Alfie asked, but not today.

    Our neighbors brought a boom truck to remove the tree from our garage roof as the garage creaked and moaned with the sift of weight. I had to enter that creaking building to get a rope and later a chain. As we worked, a small severe thunderstorm crept closer at 15MPH. One man’s wife texted events twenty miles to our north. A warning was issued, and spotters were called out as hail stones smashed windshields on the interstate. There were also a couple of brief, weak tornadoes.

    Work on the tree was frustrating, because the truck didn’t get a good grip on it. It came down at last, fifteen minutes before a wall of wind, hail and rain hit us. I have told my wife about our storm damage, but she won’t actually see it until her arrival home late this afternoon,

    Today is our last Artists in the Park session, and I have some good video to show the kids.

    I am boring you with this for two reasons. Last night, a reporter said that though the released men were not angels, they weren’t as terrible as some have portrayed them. Besides there wasn’t evidence to convict them of any crimes. The Wall Street Journal reminds us of their evil deeds and that one of the men is wanted by the UN for war crimes.

    The Taliban said they are encouraged to kidnap more Americans.

    I won’t read Lurker’s comments now, but what rabbit posted was enough to fill me with rage. Heaping verbal abuse on someone I don’t even know is pointless. It is best to get inside one’s mind and offer comments which are demonstrably hurtful and ego threatening.

    Associating with psychopaths is unhealthy so I will bore you with irrelevancies.

  250. The garage roof is flat and It came down after the tree was removed. It squashed the 1976 Monza inside.

    A mother cat has new kittens in the garage. One wall is bowed out and trying to take the patio with it. I plan to brace that wall and assume nothing will squash me.

    Finding a contractor is difficult in our sparsely settled county in the best of times. The entire area is a disaster with hail damage so bad in a band south of us that even the trees have no leaves. There are no crops in that band. The ground is totally bare. Not even weeds survived.

    A car dealership has over 2000 cars with head lights and windows smashed. They plan to have a hail sale.Several abandoned cars were parked next to the interstate when I came home again on Wednesday. It looked as though someone had pounded them with a hammer.

    A tree limb came through a neighbor’s kitchen ceiling and made quite a mess.

    I could have used the video for Artists in the Park, and thought I was recording the trees and limbs crashing down around me. I forgot to push “record.” Luckily, I didn’t make that mistake yesterday evening. I plan to show it to the kids this afternoon,

  251. Tiger CK does indeed capture most of my thoughts on the matter. I still believe Obama has been counseled points re the war closure and regional realities and that was at play as well.
    I find Susan Rice a big issue. She is now in my opinion not smart, wrong and dangerous but stupid, stupid, and dangerous.

  252. Yea Tigre, it’s sorta cute but cute has a way of becoming not-so-cute after a while, don’t you find?

    The dudeitsbeentwoyears twatwaffle was on maddow last night. From what he said it sounds like some of these twitterjackasses like the psychopathsasshole and the dudeitsbeentwoyears punk are way in the know and very involved in the goings-on with this adminstration. Not outsiders at all. The dood has known about this for months. Of course according to silverbackgorillaneckbitchface maddow congress has known for years and were in full support of the trade and now that godbama has done it they’ve suddenly decided they’re against it.

    But of course I didn’t watch any of that so my observations must be invalid.

    Here’s an observation. If you can’t see how silverbackneck twists the facts then you’re an idiot. It’s that simple. A fucking idiot.

    Susan Rice’s husband is the former exec prod of the george snuffleupagus sunday show. Just interesting, that.

  253. It’s Michael Caine . It’s from the 60s exhibit that was on display in the Tower Bridge. It was promo stuff from the movie Alfie

  254. Ha. I thought it might have been a picture of you.

    Who was the guy in the previous avatar with the leather jacket?

  255. g – “But Rabbit, we both know that if this were real life, you’d be buying me shots to see if I’d fuck her. Or talking football. Or maybe both….”

    “For example, an adult gorilla’s erect penis is about 4 cm (1.5 in) in length; an adult chimpanzee, significantly smaller (in body size) than a gorilla, has a penis size about double that of the gorilla.”

    teeheehee, teeny weeny!

  256. James: “Last night, a reporter said that though the released men were not angels, they weren’t as terrible as some have portrayed them. Besides there wasn’t evidence to convict them of any crimes. The Wall Street Journal reminds us of their evil deeds and that one of the men is wanted by the UN for war crimes”

    As a Vietnam vet, you more than anyone here should know that “sources” are biased. Remember who now owns the WSJ and consider what they say accordingly.

    Secondly, the way totalitarian regimes get and hold power is through fomenting a constant state of war, and they keep it going by vilifying the enemy as evil and subhuman. Now tell us again – how long has US been in Afghanistan? Iraq?

    If you stop a minute and actually look at some of these guys in Guantanamo, you begin to wonder who is the criminal, here. Your govt has held some of these people for over a decade, without trial and, indeed, without charge. Habeas corpus? Forget it. Yes, we all know they are not American citizens, but think about it…suppose YOU were these people or their families. How would you like it if they treated YOUR family that way?

    If America wants to retrieve its tarnished image worldwide, it might start behaving like it really believes the things it claims as its principles.

    On another front: really sorry about your storm damage. I follow “tornado alley” wx quite often. Just fascinating. There is no place on the planet that releases energy like mixing wet, hot air from the Gulf with cold, dry air from the Rockies. And it looks like they always meet just about where you live.

  257. The War on X gets tiring. It is an overused cliche. But when you talk about the attitude behind the war on women the exchange among Gorilla Rabbit and Tigre is exhibit A.

    When a man jokes about “fucking” a woman he clearly dislikes it is objectifying and quite honestly borders on a rape joke.

    I truly was surprised by the moral depravity and sheer stupidity exhibited by these three married men. I’m also disappointed to see Muffy so wed to political ideology that apparently there is no line that these conservative guys can cross that would move her to protest. Interesting how Muffy flies into a rage over unknown women getting abortions but turns a blind eye to a known liberal woman being insulted in the most vile way.

    Lurker gave the right retort but frankly it deserved a more direct reply. As much as I dislike your politics Gorilla I thought better of you — and I thought better of Tigre too, joining in with a dumbass frat boy guffaw.

  258. “I truly was surprised by the moral depravity and sheer stupidity exhibited by these three married men.”

    What the hell did I do now?

  259. LOL Rabbit I originally had “two married men” but upped it to three to see if you’d react. Maybe you didn’t see G’s answer to your comment which went in a direction you hopefully didn’t intend.

  260. I have the right to be indifferent to the degree of insult G threw at Lurker. I’m not indifferent to rape jokes. It didn’t cross my mind as such.

    It figures you’d find that more offensive than the shit Pfarker slings about Christians though. Probably because you’re of the same mindset.

    Do I fly into a rage over “unknown women getting abortions?”

    The attitude behind the war on women 😆 Maybe Bill will talk about that at the D convention next time.

  261. He didn’t make a rape joke.

    As far as objectifying women in a bar….sadly, I’m probably guilty as charge.

    Doesn’t mean we would ever hurt anyone.

    Your rape thing cracks me up. Awesome smoke screen for yet another liberal that you never challenge.

  262. “What about Lurker’s sweeping defamation of an entire platoon?”

    So let me see if I understand how the game is played. She makes a comment G finds politically or even morally offensive and the answer is supposed to be sexual.

    So the “rules” are if you are a woman and you make a political statement I don’t like, your sexuality is up for grabs. I get to answer your “disregard” for our troops by talking about fucking you.

    And Muffy I’m not Bill Clinton so knock off the deflection.

  263. I brought up rape for a reason. I admit its a stretch BUT there is a difference between the immature frat boy “man I’d like to fuck her” and the barely veiled aggression behind talking about fucking a woman you are angry with.

    At the very least it’s a crude way of dehumanizing your opponent and at worst it can sound much more sinister. G crossed a line. And FWIW Rabbit whenever you’ve gone over the line in talking about the “fairer” sex, you’ve apologized for it without prompting. You may be on G’s side in this instance but even you have exhibited some decorum when you’re battling lib females here.

  264. Listen to yourself. You’re all surprised and disappointed that I’m so wed to political ideology that I turn a blind eye to “moral depravity and sheer stupidity” on the part of these conservative guys. I don’t know whether to laugh or hurl.

    I swear the left – you – have a moral compass that is so out of whack that you vote into office men whose actual votes on abortion matter very much, and men who actually fuck 24 year old interns in OUR white house – while you characterize a tacky insult as tantamount to “no line that these conservative guys can cross.” Get over yourself. Your criticism isn’t worth reflection. For one thing you seem to have gone from deciding that I needed to speak out more on abortion to my liberal “sisters” because I’m a woman (remember that one?) to deciding that I’m prone to raging over it. Bite me.

    But I know why you brought abortion up and dragged me into it. You have to put these conservative guys on a level down there with your liberal buddies when it comes to moral inferiority and me down there with you turning a blind eye. I get ya.

  265. Couldn’t bother with the follow-ups until I posted.

    Rape, what?t What??? What are you talking about, you weirdo?

    Unlike you, I have enough respect for Muffy that I know and expect that she’ll speak for herself.

    Fuck off.

  266. Muffy you’ve greatly over complicated this. It’s incredibly simple. “Lurker and I may differ politically but as a woman I empathize with any woman getting ridiculed out of the blue in a sexual manner.”

    But I’d venture you don’t think that way. From what I understand that is the main theme of “What’s The Matter With Kansas?” Conservatives have this ability to divorce themselves from any sense of self such that they vote against their own interest.

    Rather than be self righteous, I’ll just ask you: did you find “the fuck Lurker” humor funny?

  267. Parker, no reporter is unbiased, but other sources confirm the Wall Street Journal report.The UN thinks one of the released is a war criminal. The Afghanistani government protested because they also consider at least some of the terrorists to be dangerous with a record of direct and indirect murders. The Taliban itself confirms the critics by calling the men “commanders.” One of the terrorists stated he looks forward to fighting Americans again. I correctly cited the WSJ to support my case. You ought to read Michele Malkin’s column too.

    I agree, toltalitarian regimes grasp and hold power through constant warfare, but constant warfare can also be the result of circumstances forcing self-defense. For example, the first phase of the expansion of the British Empire was an attempt to defend its interests. So were parts of the US and Russian expansions.

    I haven’t read Lurker’s comments, but one of yours is fitting. They “vilify the enemy as evil and subhuman.” Its what the Democrats have been doing to their enemies through fake wars on women and wars on gays. Now, they are insulting the integrity of the platoon who criticized our prisoner exchange.The New York Times printed an editorial which virtually called all of the platoon but Bergdahl failures.

    The rape joke was out of line, but people like Lurker are seriously deficient. Her alleged insult of the platoon did not come from her mind. Others fed it to her, and she bit as millions of other people do because they are reliable puppets. Stegosaurious had a brain as large as an orange. The dinosaur was such a huge beast that it needed a large ganglian or second brain on its lower back to control its hips. They are about as smart. Their robotic way of thinking is in its way, an insult to all of us.

    Things may have changed, but I learned about the Geneva Convention in basic training. We were taught that combatants without uniforms were terrorists we could shoot without consideration of normal military or legal courtesy. We are treating them much better than we would have in the past.

    My squadron also learned that once a combatant was a prisoner, he/she stayed in custody until hostilities ended. They got out only in the event of a prisoner exchange or new information about guilt or innocence.. History has shown that some of the men released from Gitmo rejoined the battle and killed people who would be alive today had those men stayed in custody.

    If I were in charge, I’d let them die of old age after good diets, excercise, and nice prayer mats. I wouldn’t like being imprisoned any more than they or their families do, but they made decisions with consequences.

    I opposed the war in Iraq and supported the invasion of Afghanistan. The answer to your question is we haven’t been there long enough. Occupations are used to rebuild infrastructure and to keep order until the native government can fill that role. Iraq has become chaotic because Obama is sending our troops out too soon. The same will happen in Afghanistan.

    It is the same with the outcome in Vietnam. We had battled our way into a Korea- type stalemate until liberal Democrats pulled the plug. The result was dislocated lives and millions of dead people who should have lived. Just watch. Obama will express outrage after he learns about his accidental carnage in the papers.

    Obama’s great concern for that soldier’s safety is a pile of manure. Someone wrote that he used Bergdahl as a ploy to start emptying Gitmo. The men holding Bergdahl may have been more interested in a financial ransom than release of prisoners. If Obama cares so much about our imprisoned troops, why is a veteran still in a Mexican jail because he made a wrong turn across the border? Why is the Pakistani doctor who materially helped Obama kill Ossama still sitting in prison?

    Our declining status in the world is Obamas’ fault. We don’t need to be loved. We need nations to fear and respect us. We need friends and potential enemies to understand our predictability and to know we will support or protect them in emergencies or acts of foreign aggression. We need a healthy economy. That is what is important to millions of people. They don’t have to like us.

    I repeated an on line conversation of some European teenagers who know more about the ways of the world than most people in the United States. The seventeen year old girl wrote that she wants to move to America because Cannes, France, her home, offers nothing “job wise.” She wrote that “everyone is getting out.” Mila Kunis who stared in” That Seventies Show” and is still acting said her family moved from Ukraine to the US to escape anti-semeticism. They could have moved to Germany or Russia, but they came here.

  268. Rutherford, The Kansans did vote for their interests.Their social and political image of what the US should be was more important to them than short- term gain. The current stagnant economy and social disorder supports my comment. Kansas’ economy is now better than many blue state economies. It is faring more poorly than some of its neighbors because of a drought and cutting taxes without off setting them with spending cuts. That is a different issue than Thomas Frank’s theory.

    People like you are the ones who vote against your economic and social interests.

  269. Yes, Parker, we do have a lot of extreme weather. Storm chasers from across the world come to watch. Several years ago, some New Zealanders attracted so much attention in Oklahoma that they shared a news story with a major tornado,.

  270. No I didn’t find it funny. Nor Lurker’s lame retort. What’s your point?

    Maybe you need to put your own perceived self interests on pause and once in a while cast a vote in the interests of future generations. You’re voting yourself and everyone else right into extinction.

    Now explain to me why you couldn’t just say something on Lurkers behalf instead of pointing out how you think others should have acted. That’s nothing more than a fucked up conscience looking for balance in all the wrong places. But I hope youre feeling a little less conflicted internally this morning.

    Plus you’ve overcorrected with the pretense concerning rape. But you knew that.

  271. I have said before and I will say it again that there is much lost in thread communication.

    I feel if we must somehow justify our presence,intent and worth in a Rutherford thread the blog owner should delete his account or from this day forth take an active lead and control his “e” reatly.

    I read JAL comments as worthy of the discussion and of credible standing in a view on the subject. I found her penis comment pithy and reminiscent of many a strong retort heard/overheard in bars and other settings.

    I found dead rabbit to be sincere as I often do.

    I found G and ET to supply a glimpse of bar room bonhomie that read crude but not necessarily meant as an attack on JAL as a person. The comment read as based in the symbolism of place not in the form of person,at least to me. If JAL felt it as an attack,JAL should say something. I for one would be far more supportive of her feelings than I am of Rutherfords slant. If that makes me a bad person so be it.

  272. @ James
    I find myself put near the polar opposite of your recent comments.
    The WSJ and others position on the Taliban 5 is absolutely paying homage to the “yellow journalism” creed of our past.
    The war crimes that in fact at least two of the five are guilty of were of no real concern of those that put them in Gitmo. The mass killing of Shias as well as likely involvement in destruction of historical objects has nothing to do with why the USA went to Afghanistan.
    I would put it to you and others that if we actually cared about such criminal activity the USA would have been well served to dump these guys back to a NATO signatory of the ICC for legal action. It would have been a slam dunk case with international credibility in the Real Politik arena.
    As for these guys “returning to the fight” . This fucking drives me nuts. Their capture did ZERO in alleviating the amount of fight the Afghans had to offer us. Do I think they will serve well as propaganda for future violence? Yeah,of course. The thing is though I also believe that future violence was coming with or without them. Their release has a boat load of downside possibilities but I also think there are the points not being reported and echoed mindlessly. Let’s look at some of that:
    We are leaving and we really need to get out. Of course the 9800 guys that will be rotating in and out will greatly disagree that we’re out.
    Because we need to leave and because we unfortunately have an announced timetable it might be a great thing if we don’t have to fight our way out. I think this is a whopper of unreported reality in this deal.

    As for the NYT both the OpEd that has the right screeching and the couple of insightful articles on the unit Bergdahl was assigned to. I find my right side brethren to be totally off base on this. The op-ed was obviously written with expected favor towards the Administration;however, it backed up its assertions with facts. Some read the article as pure Obama Juice. I didn’t get that. I got perhaps a piece or two of Pro O pulp but the juiciest stuff was the assailing of the cowardly politicians who are obviously holding up moistened finger tips to see which way the wind is blowing and which way they should be bending. That folks like Kelly Ayotte of NH are hypocrites is the real takeaway.
    The article I found most balancing of anything the Gray Whore is accused of looked at the complex realities of the unit and Bergdahl. It pointed out issues but far from condemned the guys and or glorify Bergdahl it painted a picture all too many Americans (esp. NYT writers since 2001) had not a fucking iota of a clue of.

  273. It sickens how little respect soldiers, particularly enlisted soldiers, get from the self appointed voice of the under-dog: liberals.

    And just like clock work, the administration’s media friends, fall right in line and defame an entire platoon.

    An entire platoon dishonored by Obama’s love for lying.

    An entire platoon dishonored by nobody liberals like Luker.

    An entire platoon dishonored by the New York Times.

    Administration acting like “mean girls”… trashing those guys on twitter.

    At the end of the day…..if Obama is so twisted that he would sell out an entire platoon of war veterans because of reckless and grossly incompetent lies, imagine how quick these people would ruin your reputation? Or worse?

    I’ve never seen an administration hold less regard for the American people. We are chumps in their eyes. Fodder. Sheep.

    I despise this administration.

    If you liberals are OK with massive lies given to the American people, then just say so.

    Do you people understand how much you are on the wrong side of history?

    The Nothing Burgers….may you rot in hell.

  274. I have not heard of one solider from that platoon say it wasn’t desertion. Not one.

    This isn’t a controversy “whipped up in Washington” like Obama the Liar says.

    This guy found the Taliban. The Taliban didn’t find him!

    And to call out the discipline of the platoon?

    Every ship, company, battalion, platoon in the military can be called out for not being squared away. Its called the real world. It’s always a work in progress. Always. And Alphy, as a veteran, I know you know this true.

    What does any of that have to do with a low down traitor? Or the fact Obama once again thought lying to us was worth it?

  275. Lying, DR. There seem to be rational reasons for the trade notwithstanding the apparent desertion. But now they’re trying to trash those that were lied to, then back at the lying about the lying again. It is puke-worthy.

    Alfie, you got it . Bar humor. The humor of irreverence is why people like dirty jokes. Gotta love the irony in his laughing at Poolman’s racist “impotent” joke and applauding the JAL “Gorilla has a little penis” response. Manufacturing then trying to own the outrage is pathetic, not chivalrous.

  276. Remember when Rutherford said nothing about Melissa Harris Hyphen Perry mocking Romney’s black grandchild? Then when challenged he said he hadn’t heard about it until he read it here from “you guys” and he still didn’t comment on it? Then eventually Alfie asked him if he’d be sharing an opinion now that he had heard about it? To which Rutherford replied that being an adoptive parent doesn’t make you noble but isn’t to be mocked either. 😮

    Not exactly a rebuke for the ages. Remember he never mentioned attacks on family or even the irony of MHP characterizing Romney’s grandchild as a token. Instead he took us on this strange trip that ended with Fox News not having any black hosts (later amended to prime time blacks hosts.)

    Oh the irony.

    Alfie’s comment @ #374 touched on a number of truths, the most resonant of which for me is the bar room metaphor and having to justify ourselves.

  277. Whoa! Please explain where the comment I made defamed the entire company or part of it.

    According to article(s) I read at that time – I believed I said the men in Bergdahl’s company were angry about the loss of the 6/8 men that died looking for a deserter. And they blamed Bergdahl. I understand that. One article read that some of those deaths occurred after the men were told to stop searching. So I said (I believe) that it did not matter to the men in his company that all those 6/8 deaths were directly related to a search for Bergdahl. They lost their friends or members of their team and needed someone or a reason to blame. Is this not normal reaction or to feel this way???

  278. I don’t know which is worse: Rutherford not getting the joke, or getting it and claiming it was about DR hypothetically forcing himself on JAL. I guess either show his cluelessness but the pretend outrage is just plain weird.

    Since Rutherford points out that I am a married man, I showed it to Mrs. Tigre to see the horror of her husband’s secret repartee. Her only comment was a chuckling “you guys are all the same.” Then I showed her Rutherford’s “rape” rant and her comment was a serious, “WTF is this guy talking about.”

  279. “They lost their friends or members of their team and needed someone or a reason to blame. Is this not normal reaction or to feel this way???”

    They’re claiming that Bergdahl was blameworthy and it sure sounds justified if what they say is true. I trust them more than the lying Obama machine trying to trash them to bolster his image after his troubling handling of it all. “Needing someone or a reason to blame” — presupposing they rather than liar are self motivated — is a total crock. Not surprising that you went there though.

  280. Yeah, he and Rice lied, then lied about lying. But it’s just another phony scandal. To be so dismissive as to by into cast blame on these service members is fucking delusional.

  281. Lurker….

    1. You said you don’t blame the traitor.
    2. You said he should be tried but then again made the claim that the traitor is absolved of responsibility because you disagree with the war.
    3. You deemed it important to the debate that some of the guys didn’t die looking for the cock sucker.

    But some of the guys did. And all of them put their life on the line.

    Lastly, not one word about the President’s lie. Nothing. Not one word about an orchestrated party in the Rose Garden. Not one bit of empathy for every servicemen who served with honor and distinction. Nothing.

    Pathetic and feeble attempt to down play the horrifying reality that nothing is sacred when it comes to this vile joke of an administration.

    You can’t even empathize with people hurt by unquestionable lies.

    And when they lie to keep their lie going, nothing.

    You little team is soooo important to you, you don’t even have the courage to say enough is enough when it comes to the victimization of guys who risked it all in service to their country.

    Do you think I would be defending Bush if he was in the Rose Garden lying like this? Do you?

    You are not alone.

    Rutherford seems to be pretty indifferent.

    And then you guys scratch your empty heads wondering why there always seems to be a schism between the left and real men. A bunch of Pajama boys scheming for poll points while advising the community organizer, but you are baffled why the back bone of this nation always seems so far away from you.

    The left: Feminized out of touch yuppies and suburbanite hipsters. Welfare queens. Guilt ridden Hollywood actors. Haters of traditional values. All of you so shocked that that such a high percentage of Americans willing to lay it on the line…whether it be in small business or the ultimate, combat….can’t fucking stand you people.

  282. James, regarding the Pakistani doctor, our relationship with Pakistan is one of the more befuddling foreign policy phenoms going.

    Pakistan has shown repeatedly she is not our friend yet we call them an ally. I learned this morning that the Hakani arm of the Taliban is supported by the Pakistani army.

    We should declare Pakistan an enemy and start bombing in the morning.

  283. Muffy I considered letting Lurkers retort stand for itself but G’s “joke” deserved greater scrutiny.

    Muffy if I remember you’re a Brown graduate. You’re sophisticated. So I’m puzzled why you won’t acknowledge that certain men marginalize women when threatened. And one primary tool they use for such marginalization is crude sexual references.

    Sometimes I wonder if you don’t live in your own body.

  284. Alfie I’m as tolerant of “bar room bonamie (sp)” as the next guy. The problem I had was the juxtaposition of the crude sexual reference with the clear dislike against the target of the reference.

    And yes, we do have to justify our intent if the words on the virtual page leave room for doubt. Heaven knows not three or four months go by without me being reminded how I slandered Palins retarded baby, which I didn’t.

  285. “…but G’s “joke” deserved greater scrutiny.”

    There’s your first mistake. No. It didn’t.

    “…with the clear dislike against the target of the reference.”

    There’s your second mistake. I NEVER thought the remark carried the sting of the hate-fuck mindset. I thought G drew a quick sketch of a pie-eyed rabbit slurring “yeah but you’d fuck her.”

    “Alfie I’m as tolerant of “bar room bonamie (sp)” as the next guy.”

    Third mistake. You do not even recognize it for what it is, much less tolerate it. Lighten up.

    “Muffy if I remember you’re a Brown graduate. You’re sophisticated.”

    Fourth mistake. The inference that one has anything to do with the other is elitist bullshit. Clinton was a Rhodes scholar and he’s got all the maturity of a pimply-faced teenager when he gets near it.

    Just because you went to class doesn’t mean you grew up. And why you feel the ivy has anything to do with the price of tea in China I don’t know but technically I’m a RISD grad is how it works.

    “So I’m puzzled why you won’t acknowledge that certain men marginalize women when threatened. And one primary tool they use for such marginalization is crude sexual references.

    Sometimes I wonder if you don’t live in your own body”.

    To what end? ABSTRACTLY? Tell me again what I’m supposed to acknowledge that directly relates to what G said to Lurker and what he meant by it. Because we’re miles apart on that.

    I have no fucking clue what the last line means. Care to elaborate?

  286. This article was one of the two I thought spoke of at least some of those @ the Times not trashing the unit but supplying other facts.
    This one though I think has a title that outrages folks who then in turn fail to see some of the very pro-soldier points within it.

  287. We should declare Pakistan an enemy and start bombing in the morning.

    Ummm… they have nukes. Why is it we should bomb them? You’re sounding like McCain. That’s also our default FP with this administration. You do know we already have armed drones flying their airspace, right? We have also hellfire missiled them in the recent past, killing several hundred civilians.

    Full on hammer diplomacy! It’s hammer time! Everything’s a nail. 😈

  288. @ rabbit I get where you are coming from. Yes as a veteran and as a person who has contact with three guys who have toured in Afghanistan and Iraq I recognize the realities of units. More importantly I recognize just how much harm the United States has done to our service members.

    Check out the second link from #391 ( also avail by clicking HERE I could easily find equally powerful lines from a number of sources,sources like Michael Yon which would paint the same picture. Guys tossed out into the middle of freakin nowhere with questionable RoE’s, a chain of command that worries about photos of you in a tee shirt but are the same humps that took forever to get you the right tools for the job (MRAP,Strykers etc) have you positioned knowingly surrounded by hostiles and to top it off has your flank guarded by the Afghan army/police, an element known just as in Iraq for Green on Blue attacks. Don’t get me started on the pharmaceutical issues in the overstretched overworked units.

    John Q Public should get on his f@$ing knees every day and thank the higher deity of his choosing that a majority of these guys don’t come home and take out a mall. Sadly too many take themselves out and as in the 60’s and 70’s most are forgotten.

  289. And yes, we do have to justify our intent if the words on the virtual page leave room for doubt.

    Not for nothing but I promise you I will hold you accountable to your own words.

    ***Official Rutherford Lawson disclaimer***
    By my word choices above I by no means mean to insinuate a threat of civil or criminal legal action. Nor is it to be thought that I have levied a threat of physical,mental,emotional,fiduciary or virtual harm. I am not now or intend to dial 911,the local FBI or the editor of any newspaper,radio ,television or other media outlet. I also have not nor will I be having a chat virtual or real with WordPress staff.
    Let it be clear that as a writer and reader in both the real and virtual realms and as a co-founder as it were of WPPBA (now defunct) therefore essentially an openly invited guest to this particular locale it is my sole intent to hold others to the level they will hold me.

  290. “Guys tossed out into the middle of freakin nowhere with questionable RoE’s, a chain of command that worries about photos of you in a tee shirt but are the same humps that took forever to get you the right tools for the job (MRAP,Strykers etc) have you positioned knowingly surrounded by hostiles and to top it off has your flank guarded by the Afghan army/police, an element known just as in Iraq for Green on Blue attacks”-A

    Man…..that was a well written summery of why I was so happy to get fuck out when my 4 years were up. And I was a peace time sailor with a pussy job! God, it must suck for those guys. I can’t imagine.

    But A, has it ever not been a cluster fuck?

    Seriously.

    In the 90s, during Clinton….the entire military went on this sexual harassment kick. That was all we did. Videos. Training. Over and over.

    Now, at the time, I was the leader of the barracks outlaws. I could have been busted for a 100 different things.

    Yet, they busted me for the one thing I never did.

    When they mixed the barracks with females and Marines were entering our barracks to fuck those sluts (and man, were they)…. A few guys physically removed the Marines and told them never to come back.

    It wasn’t me.

    I was sober and sleeping.

    I refused to snitch, as I did know who it was. But still. 45 days restriction. 45 days extra duty facilitated by the Marine Corps. (How do you think that went for me…lol). Reduction in rank. Armed guard when I went to the galley!

    An innocent man!

    The military has always been a cluster fuck. I think sometimes proud veterans under sell how much of a cluster fuck it is.

    There are a few things the military does right. And despite being a peace time nobody, during a soft spot era, I’m proud of these three things.

    1. Motherfucker has to be on time.

    2. Motherfucker looks out for the motherfucker next to him.

    3. Motherfucker must pay attention to detail. Gear adrift can kill.

    Seriously…..they might not seem much to some…..but I’m damn proud of those three lessons. Lurker be damned.

  291. Alphy,

    I don’t get your New York Times piece.

    The cock sucker was one of the boys until he wasn’t. Whats your point?

    He was a soldier until he wasn’t.

  292. Alfie’s take on the Bergdahl affair aligns with other sentiments I have heard. Thomas Friedman (not popular here I know) said we have a tendency to blow these guys into super villains who can shoot lasers out their eyeballs. The Furry Five have been out of action for over a decade. One comedian joked they still have to bridge from MySpace to Twitter.

    Friedman also mentioned Israel which constantly brags about taking out a major operative of Hamas, only for a replacement to pop up in record time.

    I would surmise it is the organizational DECENTRALIZATION of these rogue orgs that makes them so hard to defeat while making any one leader pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. By the time we killed Bin Laden he was pretty irrelevant.

  293. “And yes, we do have to justify our intent if the words on the virtual page leave room for doubt.”

    I think we should always assume we’re talking about rape around here until proven otherwise. A safe bet with the guys that have been commenting here for years. Even as a married man, you can assume, like my hatred of those fucking handicapped, I fully support allusions to rape. It’s only logical. I am a conservative. 🙄

  294. Muffy you have selective memory. As I recall I pointed out to you and others that MHP tearfully apologized for the incident. What did you want? An on the air suicide?

  295. “comment @ #374 touched on a number of truths, the most resonant of which for me is the bar room metaphor and having to justify ourselves”

    And as I told Alfie, when you say something that anyone here finds fucked up then yes you damn well need to justify yourself.

    You expected justification from Pfesser when he crossed a line but everyone else is immune? Puhleeze.

  296. Tigre, I think Rutherford “lynched” us in the virtual world.

    For real doe….I wouldn’t rape Rutherford in real life. But I would be indifferent as all hell if a prehistoric Arctocyon savaged Rutherford.

  297. “And as I told Alfie, when you say something that anyone here finds fucked up then yes you damn well need to justify yourself.”

    What you said is fucked up. Justify yourself.

    Or maybe man up and admit you misinterpreted the comment and now feel foolish.

  298. Whoa, DR. What you said about the Arctocyon is fucked up. You know what you gotta do now.

    But if Rutherford were my cell mate, everyone would know he’s my bitch.

    Doh. How am I gonna justify that?

  299. Muffy I don’t know what’s hard about it. I threw a Molotov cocktail into the room with the word rape. So scratch that and go with the good old boy barroom humor. Was it or was it not at Lurkers expense? Did G attempt to argue Lurkers point? No. He said he stopped reading and then he told his fuck joke.

    How you don’t find that dismissive mystifies me. And my reference to your body was by way of wondering about your level of self awareness and ability to empathize with people who share common traits with you.

    I may totally disagree with what a black man says but when someone calls him a ni**er I feel pain. I may think some disabled person is totally full of shit but if someone calls him a gimp I don’t like it. You said you didn’t find G’s remark funny even in a benign context yet you sat silent and let it pass. I don’t get that. I would think obvious disrespect towards a woman would get your hackles up.

  300. LOL Alfie I like your pledge. 🙂

    I honestly think I HAVE been held to account for every word I’ve written in the past seven years. This thread is a perfect example of where I’ve been rebuked (perhaps deservedly) for tossing the rape word into the mix.

    All we have in this forum are our words. It’s the only way we represent ourselves here. And I expect all of us (me included) to stand or fall on those words.

  301. Tigre I readily admit that based on survival of the fittest if I were incarcerated with any of you, I’d probably be your bitch. Hell, I’d be Muffy’s bitch.

    Thank God for the Internet, the great equalizer.

  302. Muffy, the WPPBA, the WordPress Political Blogger’s Alliance was founded by a blogger named ChenZhen. Alfie (and Huck in a former identity) were early contributors. I was probably the last blogger to join the alliance before it died. If you go back to my older posts you’ll see a coded coda on my posts that all of us WPPBA members used to put at the end of our posts.

  303. So, as I get caught up on the thread thus far, I see R went and got lobotomized this weekend.

    First off, golf clap to Lurker: nice retort. Guess it’s a good thing I’m not really a Gorilla….

    Now, to the retarded portion of things…

    The War on X gets tiring. It is an overused cliche. But when you talk about the attitude behind the war on women the exchange among Gorilla Rabbit and Tigre is exhibit A.

    When a man jokes about “fucking” a woman he clearly dislikes it is objectifying and quite honestly borders on a rape joke. ” – R

    Rape? Are you stupid? Every conversation I have with you deteriorates my confidence in Harvard University. What I said was:

    “ If this was real life I would distract G from her by buying him rounds on my side of the bar just so his blood pressure doesn’t rise.” – DR

    When I read that she didn’t bother to answer anything that I wrote (is this a liberal thing or what?), I stopped reading.

    But Rabbit, we both know that if this were real life, you’d be buying me shots to see if I’d fuck her. Or talking football. Or maybe both…. – G

    Where the fuck do you get off questioning anyone else’s reading comprehension? Seriously, you’re an idiot.

    Muffy hit on it late in the thread, but this wasn’t about Lurker, it was about DR and I and the real motivation behind the drinks at a bar. Maybe you’ve never been in a bar, or with guy friends… Maybe you’ve never had a wingman, or had to fill that role… Maybe you’ve no clue what the male side of the species does, or talks about, or jokes about… This had nothing to do with Lurker and everything to do with the relationship DR and I have, which is something you clearly don’t understand.

    I brought up rape for a reason. I admit its a stretch BUT there is a difference between the immature frat boy “man I’d like to fuck her” and the barely veiled aggression behind talking about fucking a woman you are angry with.” – R

    I never said I’d like to fuck her. Quite the opposite. In fact, I wouldn’t fuck her with your dick at DR’s place. Period. I find her hideous as a personality, and contrary to what you might think, personality goes a long way. But to see you manufacture a position for where I stood in this conversation is incredibly educational for all to see. You have twisted my words into something I never said, implying claiming a threat of aggression that I never made.

    I found dead rabbit to be sincere as I often do.
    I found G and ET to supply a glimpse of bar room bonhomie that read crude but not necessarily meant as an attack on JAL as a person. The comment read as based in the symbolism of place not in the form of person,at least to me. If JAL felt it as an attack,JAL should say something. I for one would be far more supportive of her feelings than I am of Rutherfords slant. If that makes me a bad person so be it. — Alfie

    It wasn’t an attack on Lurker. It was a comment directed towards DR on his true motivations behind drinks at a bar.

    Considering her retort, she’s clearly not as retarded as R, but if she felt offended or threatened, that was not what I was saying.

    Muffy’s #388 is beautiful, and on the mark. I’d kiss the woman (with her permission of course, Fuck you R…) for having common sense and the ability to read the English language.

    “comment @ #374 touched on a number of truths, the most resonant of which for me is the bar room metaphor and having to justify ourselves”

    And as I told Alfie, when you say something that anyone here finds fucked up then yes you damn well need to justify yourself.

    You expected justification from Pfesser when he crossed a line but everyone else is immune? Puhleeze.” – R

    Even if you fabricate it?

    Muffy I don’t know what’s hard about it. I threw a Molotov cocktail into the room with the word rape. So scratch that and go with the good old boy barroom humor. Was it or was it not at Lurkers expense? Did G attempt to argue Lurkers point? No. He said he stopped reading and then he told his fuck joke.” — R

    A) It was directed at DR, not Lurker.

    B) “When I read that she didn’t bother to answer anything that I wrote (is this a liberal thing or what?), I stopped reading.” Another instance of R’s poor reading comprehension.

    And if this isn’t a pot-meet-kettle moment, I don’t know what the fuck is. ASSHOLE, you regularly fail to answer anyone’s questions. I challenge you on this point regularly and her, now, you have the audacity to attempt to call me out? You little clown. You dance around, putting on this song and dance, shucking and jiving, as you avoid answering ANY hard questions. You are, by far, the greatest intellectual fraud on this thread.

    I’d demand an apology for accusing me of things I never did, but you’re too shallow for that. I guess I’ll have to be satisfied with the fact that everyone knows that you’re pretty stupid and that we should just drop those expectations we’ve been nurturing for so many years that a ray of light might break through that block of wood on your shoulders.

    Rape? Fuck you…..

  304. Rutherford, unless our government is secretly negotiating, we are doing little or nothing to encourage Pakistan to release the doctor who risked his safety to help us find Bin Ladin. We have a moral obligation to get him freed. We are giving Pakistan aid and money. Surely we could use bribery and threats to facilitate his release.

  305. Affie, all of the repatriated prisoners were Taliban though some had ties to Al Quiada. They did not become our direct enemies until we invaded Afghanistan.

    I haven’t read anyone who has disputed in detail the information the Wall Street Journal presented in its article. Former Senator Bob Kerry said on an Omaha radio station that at least two of the men were directly involved in killing Americans. He criticized the trade.

    Sec. of State John Kerry said that to consider those men a danger to our troops now is balony, but later, he back tracked and said maybe they would resume the battle, but they would risk getting killed.

    These were not foot soldiers. Their Taliban offices show them to be proven executives and managers. A former interogator said they are dangerous men. A Taliban spokesman called them commanders. Such men would not even have to be in Quatar to harm our troops. They can organize and communicate from outside of Afghanistan, One said he planed to resume his fight.

    The man accused of war crimes may have been responsible for thousands of Afghani deaths, and the region where he operated still has not recovered. The UN wants him for possible war crimes, and Afghanistan protested his release.

    It doesn’t matter if he didn’t kill Americans. He may still be responsible for killing other people who’s lives are worth as much as ours. Perhaps we should have turned him over to another authority. The Taliban wanted him and his fellows released for three years for a reason. Letting him free is like New Jersey police releasing a South Dakota criminal because he did nothing against people of Newark.

    Its true, releasing the average grunt to perhaps fight again has little direct effect on the battlefield, because replacements are already in place. However, it cost our enemy time and money to train the replacements. Releasing warriors to fight again is poor strategy. At the very least, they are leverage against the enemy. Why didn’t we release German or Vietnamese prisoners?

    Responsible people with knowledge of the prisoners recomended that they not be released two years ago. Obama changed the composition of the board and their opinion remained the same.

    The Taliban said the exchange will encourage them to attempt more captures.

    Obama apparently told Harry Reid before the event. He could have spoken to the other Congressional leaders, but he didn’t. This deal stinks.

  306. “I’d demand an apology for accusing me of things I never did, but you’re too shallow for that. I guess I’ll have to be satisfied with the fact that everyone knows that you’re pretty stupid and that we should just drop those expectations we’ve been nurturing for so many years that a ray of light might break through that block of wood on your shoulders.”

    Yeah. Amen to that, G.

    It’s probably best left right there but I’m not gonna…

    ”You expected justification from Pfesser when he crossed a line but everyone else is immune?”

    No one crossed a line here, Rutherford. Stop being dramatic.

    ”How you don’t find that dismissive mystifies me. And my reference to your body was by way of wondering about your level of self awareness and ability to empathize with people who share common traits with you.”

    You know, I’m not even going to justify that with a meaningful response. I’d just be doing you a favor. You’re being obtuse and obstinate and not just a little judgmental but a lot, and it has you running around with your pants down around your ankles and I’m not going to present you with an opportunity to pull them up.

    ”I may totally disagree with what a black man says but when someone calls him a ni**er I feel pain. I may think some disabled person is totally full of shit but if someone calls him a gimp I don’t like it. You said you didn’t find G’s remark funny even in a benign context yet you sat silent and let it pass. I don’t get that. I would think obvious disrespect towards a woman would get your hackles up.”

    Not finding it funny is not the same as finding it offensive or disrespectful. More melodrama.

    You want to be the big man?

    Let me tell you something Rutherford – you deserve to get the cybershit kicked out of you for this little episode. Especially from G and me but also every other witness here. That you don’t get that either is no surprise. G said it – we all thought it – maybe you’ve no clue what the male side of the species does, or talks about, or jokes about. The offensive pigheaded asshole here is you and no amount of building your own self worth up by tearing others down will change that.

    You’re terminally mentally irregular, yo.

  307. G said it – we all thought it – maybe you’ve no clue what the male side of the species does, or talks about, or jokes about.” – Muffy

    I love this woman!

    Hey Muffy, wanna grab DR and ET and go do some shots? 😉

  308. She was raped by a black man in Haiti, so naturally, it is the white man’s fault…

    Amanda Kijera was on a humanitarian trip to Haiti, when she was violently raped by a black man. The act was both coincidental and devastating, as Kijera was actually in Haiti to dispel the “myths” that violence against women on the island was overstated by women’s rights organizations.

    The intention of Kijera’s trip was to push back on the portrayal of black men as “savages” in the media. Her hope was that she would eliminate misconceptions and push back against common views imposed by “the man.”

    However, Kijera’s trip took a turn for the worse when one of the men she had worked to protect cornered her on the rooftop, and raped her numerous times.

    “The experience was almost more than I could bear,” Kijera wrote about the incident, “I pleaded with him to honor my commitment to Haiti, to him as a brother in the mutual struggle for an end to our common oppression, but to no avail. He didn’t care.”

    “Women are not the source of their oppression; oppressive policies and the as-yet unaddressed white patriarchy which still dominates the global stage are,” she explained.

    Kijera makes the outrageous claim that dependency on white people causes them to act out against them. She alludes that this was the reason for her attack.

  309. Seriously, Gorilla, more effort into the reply than I ever would have expected from you.

    I retract the rape part as I recognize it pushed the envelope of my argument. Otherwise, the part about using sexuality to be dismissive still stands.

  310. dr
    Do you think I would be defending Bush if he was in the Rose Garden lying like this? Do you? – Yes, I do believe you would. Do you think Bush and Cheney should tried as war criminals? Will you hold a Republican president to the same standards as you have held Obama?

    I spent two years as an Army wife during the Vietnam era. He was ROTC, assigned to G3 and ran a Trainfire range. He kept the commies out of OK. Cake walk.
    My brother was a Marine saw combat in VN. Doesn’t talk about it.
    A great friend, a Marine, saw combat in VN. Died of a brain tumor in his early 50’s – exposed to Agent Orange.
    Husband’s college roommate saw combat in VN. Doesn’t talk about it, drinks too much.
    Husband’s childhood buddy served in VN. Had great trouble adjusting upon returning. Tried to kill his wife one night, thought she was VC. She slept with her son in separate bedroom with the door locked and the dresser pulled in front of the door.
    Shall I continue with our friends who did not return….
    My nephew, a graduate of The Citadel, served in Desert Storm – tank commander. Saved one of his men’s life. Came home with a variety of health issues later developed MS in his 40’s.
    My grandson, a Marine, served in Afghanistan. Doesn’t talk about it.

    Don’t you lecture me about supporting the soldiers or who loves them more bullshit. I thought we learn our lesson with Vietnam to be careful starting a war. But Bush, who went AWOL and Cheney with his deferments didn’t learn anything did they? And Rumsfeld who said you go to war with what you have not what you wish you had. And he sent men ill prepared off to a war that could have waited. Did you donate money to buy kavalar? vests for the men?

    I was/am opposed to both Afghanistan and Iraq. We have nothing to show for it but dead men or destroyed families, children who lost a parent and parents who lost a child.

    Yes I do care about the troops enough to not send them to unnecessary wars. Enough that you if you are not willing to fix them then you don’t break them.

    1. You said you don’t blame the traitor.
    No, from what I read at that time, I did not blame him if he was disillusioned about the war. However, you DO NOT abandoned your buddies especially in a time of war.
    Those are the rules. If he did leave of his own free will or joined the enemy then an investigation is done. If he is guilty of desertion or what ever then he should be punished.

    2. You said he should be tried but then again made the claim that the traitor is absolved of responsibility because you disagree with the war.
    Never said that traitor is absolved of responsibility….

    3. You deemed it important to the debate that some of the guys didn’t die looking for the cock sucker.
    Oh ffs what ever.

    “Pathetic and feeble attempt to down play the horrifying reality that nothing is sacred when it comes to this vile joke of an administration.”

    I find pharmaceuticals help.

    The rest of your childish, pathetic, superiority rant is not worth addressing.

  311. “But Bush, who went AWOL.”

    Yeah. Ask Dan Rather about those Killian Memos. Duh.

    I have no doubt that DR would call out Bush if he pulled the Obama Rose Garden bullshit in a heartbeat.

  312. “Bleak…and stink.”

    Yup. Poor guy.

    Must be tough. He had so much invested in this. And now its all “bleak and stink.”

    It is fascinating to watch the thick vapors of failure cloud his world.

    He has 2 reactions.

    There is defeated, despondent Rutherford. This is the BLEAK. Usually this entails an apolitical/avoid-at-all-costs reaction. At times there is a sentence or two about how it’s bad but not that bad or how its not Obama’s fault -its those stupid people around him ruining the Hope and stopping the Change.

    Every now and then we get the STINK. Angry little 8 word phrases of word salad usually stolen from MSNBC. Racist America stops this great man. Also…he gets pissed at his readers.

    Bleak and Stink….a case study.

    What we don’t get is one shred of honesty.

    Which is fine by me. If this helps bleak and stink in any way, I’m game.

    Read what Rutherford had to say about Obama’s first State if the Union address back in 09.

    This wasn’t a president. This was his deity talking to every individual in the world. A personal relationship with humanity just like God.

    You can’t fall from higher up. Bleak and stink.

    Book of Rutherford:

    “Even though the President was addressing “leaders around the globe” he was really bypassing them and talking straight to the citizens of their countries. In this one sentence, President Obama took his rightful place as leader of the free world. He was basically saying, “Afghans, Iraqis, Israelis, Palestinians, North Koreans, I know you are decent people who want to live in peace and I will not judge you by your leaders. On the contrary, I will tell your leaders that they must do right by you because you do not want your progress hijacked by leaders with a negative agenda.” Obama believes to his core that all people of the world are fundamentally decent. He knows that for the people of the world to live in peace, their governments must be reasoned with, partnered with and pressured to create the environment of peace that their citizens so desire.”

    “To the people of poor nations, we pledge to work alongside you to make your farms flourish and let clean waters flow; to nourish starved bodies and feed hungry minds.  And to those nations like ours that enjoy relative plenty, we say we can no longer afford indifference to suffering outside our borders; nor can we consume the world’s resources without regard to effect.  For the world has changed, and we must change with it.

    Again, Obama speaks to the people of the world and expands his theme of domestic individual responsibility to a global scale. It is the responsibility of every wealthy nation to help those less fortunate, just as it is the responsibility of every wealthy individual to help those less fortunate. Perhaps one day this will be called the Obama Doctrine and my what a nice change that is from the Bush Doctrine that was centered around violent response to terror.”

    Flash forward to 2014 and imagine the confusion in Rutherford’s bleak world of stink.

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