Time to Impeach Obama?

A few years ago I went ballistic when I found out my daughter’s school district in Connecticut was allowing students to opt out of viewing a recorded academic pep talk by relatively new President Barack Obama. The satirical and very angry piece that this situation inspired sent thousands of visitors to Best of the Blogs where my piece had been re-published from my blog.

Well it’s four years later and Obama hasn’t won over too many adversaries (and has probably disappointed a good number of supporters). As the lunatic fringe Tea Party US Representatives went home for summer break, they entertained questions at town halls about Obama’s potential for impeachment. Even the mostly sensible Oklahoma Senator Tom Coburn said recently that Obama was skirting close to high crimes and misdemeanors.

So rather than go on another rant like I did in 2009, I ask you dear reader to cast your vote on this impeachment thing. Add a comment below to elaborate on your vote if you like. I must tip my hat to the great New York Times columnist Maureen Dowd for the third option in the ballot below.




444 thoughts on “Time to Impeach Obama?

  1. I hope any yes votes come with a convincing argument.

    Mine sure does. Barack is a white black and has no business in the all White House.

    Sorry, couldn’t resist. 🙂

  2. Since obviously gross incompetence isn’t an impeachable offense, though it should be as far as I’m concerned, Obama and his corrupt cabinet blew right past impeachable offense and moved straight to jackbooted fascism and criminality when they chose to use the IRS to personally threaten citizens.

    I’m past the point of caring, though. The election of 2012 convinced me America’s best days behind her and the Constitution been rendered malleable and virtually moot.

  3. You know, the damnedest thing to me is that anyone could’ve believed he was what he proclaimed himself to be.

  4. No, he should have been fired in November for incompetence.

    Maureen Dowd phoned that article in. Guess why everyone hates Obama? He black. Shocker.

    Hey R just for giggles you should write an article about the crazies calling for Bush’s impeachment. Seriously – write it as though you were writing it about Obama and then reveal the big twist at the end that you were talking about Bush all along.

    You could call it “Remember When We Didn’t Like War?” Or “Why Waterboard For Intel When Drones Are So Much Cooler?”

    What about – “Hey Kadafi, Tell Saddam We Said ‘Hi!’ ”

    The larger concern here is how this Bentivolio got elected in the first place. He’s no more worthy of his position than Obama is of his.

  5. I am more curious if he attacks Syria without UN approval will the left call for him to be prosecuted for war crimes and violations of international law.

    What say you, Lurker?

  6. Huck – to be absolutely honest I don’t know how to answer. What I would like is for a sane, level headed, respectful Republican to explain why President Obama should be impeached. No bullshit, just facts. For some reason, Obama has brought out so much hate, anger, criticism and discontentment in a large number of people from the moment he was elected. I don’t understand why.

    There is such a level of disrespect coming from our politicians; not only for Obama but for the American people who elected them. The mis-information and flat out lies told is outrageous There are 4?% of the people in LA who believe Obama is responsible for the Katrina response, WTF! And this lack of respect also applies to so many of us. We can’t even have a discussion without it becoming political or bashing party.

    There are those who believe Obama has destroyed the “great” American reputation. No, it was going down hill before he was elected. The truth is much of this outstanding reputation we thought we had was just our imagination, our fantasy. People outside the US pay very close attention to our politics and business at home and abroad. They have taken a critical look at what WE have allowed to happen in this country. We have lost their respect that we once enjoyed. I have too many moments that I am embarrassed or ashamed to admit I am an American.

    Not the answer you wanted? As for Syria – we should mind our own business.

  7. Lurker is worried about politicians not getting enough respect from us?

    Motherfuckers spy on us, lie to us, divide us and steal from us….but its the poor politicians who don’t get enough love as they tear into medium rare steaks at Ruth’s Chris Steak House while getting tongue jacked by lobbyists thinking up some new plan to fuck my kids over with.

    Plus I hate their fucking hair cuts.

    ……..(‘(…´…´…. ¯~/’…’)
    ……….”…\………. _.·´

  8. Obama’s haircut alone is impeachable. His choice in women worthy of capital offense.


    Lurker, I would remind you that this disrespect has been years in the making and nothing new – just magnified. George Bush was treated absolutely awful by millions of people like you, but it was even longer ago that Robert Bork was unfairly demonized by an idiot Jr. Senator from Delaware named Joe Biden and a drunken womanizer named Ted Kennedy.

    Clarence Thomas was and still is treated with zero respect.

    For too long, there have been two standards in this country, led by one media with overwhelmingly only one mindset. A media that is as much guilty for what they don’t report, as the twist of what they do.

    A media that is outraged and demands their pound of flesh for a man wearing an Obama mask at a rodeo, but applauds fictional books assassinating George Bush while he was still President.

  9. Surely we all remember Bill Clinton’s presidency even if GWB’s was stolen and therefore doesn’t count. Plenty of adversity and criticism heaped on the ole horn dog – he just handled it differently. And he did his job and tried to work with his political foes – at least sometimes. Obama campaigns and complains and campaigns some more.

    But more to the point Obama is the first president of whom criticism is a grave offense. And so naturally anyone and everyone who says anything negative or does not like him is – say it with me – racist.

  10. I don’t know that he has done anything to be impeached. I don’t like his policies, but I don’t know that they are illegal. It’s not illegal for the president to lie to you and me. It’s only illegal to lie under oath…like Bill Clinton did. That doesn’t apply to press conferences and speeches. That’s when Obama does all of his lying.

    That’s why I asked about war crimes if we attack Syria without UN approval. I asked you specifically because you were so vocal about Bush and Cheney being war criminals.

    As for lies and disrespect, neither are anything new. Heck, some of the very first presidential campaigns had candidates talking about the wives of opponents being drunks and promiscuous. Lies and disrespect are part of politics. It’s a dirty, ugly business.

    I actually like seeing politicians get blasted with insults by the public…even the politicians I like. It reminds me that we still have a 1st Amendment. There are places in the world where people are found floating face down in a river after they have insulted their leader.

    Remember, Lurker…free speech only protects speech we don’t like. Because speech we do like doesn’t need to be protected.

  11. [Lies and disrespect are part of politics. It’s a dirty, ugly business.]

    I think you’re absolutely right, Huck. Only now it is more obvious, because the playing field has been leveled and the communication real time. Maybe more importantly, these Democrats are apoplectic they don’t monopolize the narrative anymore.

    I see FOX News and Rush Limbaugh attacked far more than I do any Republican politician. It’s pathetic and desperate. And the more they are attacked, the more popular both become.

  12. People forged official documents to try and discredit Bush. When’s the last time anyone forged a document to discredit Obama? They asked to see plenty of them…but never fabricated them and showed them on the nightly news.

    You know, I’ll bet there’s a hell of a lot more than 4% of the country who still thinks George Bush never served in the military.

    Imagine if Tom Brokaw had produced a forged Obama birth certificate from Kenya during campaign season.

    Go to Google images and type in “chimpy” and see what comes up.

    We don’t have to imagine what would happen if anyone dared call Barack Obama “chimpy”.

    Google “Bush head on spike”. Yeah, that one’s a hoot.

    Won’t it be cool when Obama’s out of office and we can see his head on a platter while we watch our favorite TV show?

    I find it fascinating how dissent against the president used to be patriotic. Oh it was all the rage. But now it’s racist and disrespectful. Heck, its even racist and disrespectful to call Barack Obama “Obama”.

    Our country has gone crazy with worshiping this man.

    “For some reason, Obama has brought out so much hate, anger, criticism and discontentment in a large number of people from the moment he was elected. I don’t understand why.”

    Here’s my no bullshit assessment of why.

    The Bush presidency polarized the country in a way that hadn’t been seen for a long time. So Obama came onto the scene with the battle lines already drawn. Its only natural that those who had spent 7 years seeing their guy get shit on would want to fling shit at the new guy.

    And Obama likes that. Oh, he plays like he doesn’t…sniveling about how everyone is always out to get him. But his deeds and words tell the truth about his feelings. He does nothing to try and bring people together. What he does is sow deeper division. Party division. Racial division. Gender division. Class division.

    In the mass media age, this is what politics is going to be from now on, Lurker. Half the country flinging shit and the other half trying to deflect it. I have every confidence that your side will be right back at it at the very next opportunity.

    And why am I so confident?….because you’ve already done it.

  13. R, is there a point to be made by this post? “Put up or shut up?”

    I don’t really get it.

    But Lurker’s take on our collective lack of respect for Dear Leader is more of that disturbing worship shit that I honestly think is a symptom of something really amiss.

    I guess the conclusion is the same as always. Racism. There’s no other explanation for this never-before-seen, new-fangled criticizing of the president. 🙄

  14. I find it fascinating how dissent against the president used to be patriotic.

    Dissent against the government was too. Now they call you a conspiracy lunatic. The founders revolted against tyranny. We accept it in the name of security.

    The system is rigged. Nothing is by chance. Hell, just this morning I read the match between Bobby Riggs and Billie Jean King was rigged by the mob. It took 40 years for that to leak out. Wait for some real 911 truth when these FOIA requests start coming out.

    What was it Lincoln said? You can fool all of the people some of the time… Who’s fooling who?

  15. Huck,

    Thanks for the article – an interesting read.

    I used to kind of like Mead and respected his opinions on many occasions, but anymore I’m only lukewarm about him and sometimes find him derelict in his supposed profound wisdom.

    Mead does a great job laying out Obama’s many blunders in retrospect throughout the article. But you could have done the same with your background.

    Here’s where I get off the train conducted by Mead.

    Mead is still under the illusion that Barack Obama is somehow JFK, that Obama has bandaged the 1,000 cuts made to Israel. I can’t speak for the Middle East, but I know a lot of Jews affiliated with family in Israel. Mead couldn’t be more wrong because Mead misses the most glaring admission.

    Nobody trusts Obama, nor should they.

    Obama has been exposed as weak study, poorly read, and never ready for prime time. Netanyahu is far more intelligent than Obama and plays him like a fiddle.

    After 58 months with Obama as President, I am now convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that Obama knows how to do one thing well. Campaign. Outside of that, Obama is a charlatan and nothing will change that.

    What is worse is that Hillary Rotten was no better. And I can’t find anybody on Obama’s current cabinet that is any more qualified either. Kerry is a dunce. In addition, the military has no respect for Obama. The military did respect George Bush and that pains the Democrats.

    As Mead was muddled in his thinking in 2008 voting for Obama, five years of one major foreign policy blunders after another still hasn’t convinced the man that Obama simple isn’t Presidential material.

    Until Mead realizes that, he too will reach the wrong conclusion.

  16. The military did respect George Bush and that pains the Democrats.

    Oh puhleeze. Any serviceman who was not stoned laughed his ass off at Bush in the jump suit at the “Mission Accomplished” speech.

    I’d go even further. I’d bet dollars to donuts that the average soldier’s admiration of his leaders decreases as it goes up the ladder of command. He probably views his direct commander as a father figure whom he would die for. By the time he gets to the POTUS, he’s laughing his ass off and saying “what the fuck does he know about being a soldier?” This is particularly true of Obama, Bush 43 and Clinton. Someone like Bush 41 or Eisenhower would likely command more respect.

  17. As for lies and disrespect, neither are anything new. Heck, some of the very first presidential campaigns had candidates talking about the wives of opponents being drunks and promiscuous. Lies and disrespect are part of politics. It’s a dirty, ugly business.

    Huck you are right on the money and the only reason racism has been added to the list of offensive rhetoric is that we have our first black President. If Hillary gets elected, I guarantee some congressman will get caught on a hot mic referring to her as a cunt.

    Muffy, with that said, you lose credibility when you deny ANY racist element to the opposition to Obama. Sorry friend but protesters with signs that say “Go back to Kenya” are not making a policy critique of the President.

  18. I might also add, based on a clip I saw yesterday, Nancy Pelosi unequivocally dismissed any notion of impeaching GWB back in the day. Boehner is a political coward afraid to tell his loose cannons to STFU.

  19. Oh puhleeze. Any serviceman who was not stoned laughed his ass off at Bush in the jump suit at the “Mission Accomplished” speech.

    I’ve never told you this for obvious reasons, but my sister-in-law’s son actually was on the USS Abraham Lincoln when George Bush became the one and only President to make an arrested landing. I’ve got the picture of ‘Mission Accomplished’ sitting in my secretary.

    And to a soldier I understand, they all thought it pretty damn cool as Bush stepped off to a standing ovation – something the feckless coward for current President can only dream. Obama is met with disgust.

    You should count your lucky stars, Rutherford. There’s a lot of good men protecting you that in real life would hate your guts. 😉

  20. Tigre doesn’t understand the point 🙄

    1. Impeachment has been a new meme getting louder lately.
    2. I didn’t feel like writing another rant nor do I feel particularly rantish about it.
    3. Good excuse to start a new thread.

    Does that help?

  21. Muffy, with that said, you lose credibility when you deny ANY racist element to the opposition to Obama. Sorry friend but protesters with signs that say “Go back to Kenya” are not making a policy critique of the President.

    I wouldn’t sweat that charge, Ms. Muffy.

    This coming from a man who until very recently has charged all of us here as being racists for simply disagreeing with Obama, a man Rutherford at one time admired to the point of tears and worship.

    As to Rutherford’s credibility concerning Obama….

    😈 Well, what do you think? 🙂

  22. OK … literally seconds before I go to work, how ’bout this for an impeachable offense — murder of two American citizens abroad without due process? Seems a pretty nasty crime to me.

    But here’s the rub — No Republican would ever bring it up for fear of losing their anti-terrorist cred.

  23. @30, thanks for explaining that I again gave you more credit than you deserve.

    R, you must be mighty embarrassed by your Messiah. 😆

    P.S. The military doesn’t Obama because he doesn’t trust them.

  24. “He probably views his direct commander as a father figure whom he would die for” -R

    Only speaking for myself here….but…uhhh…no.

  25. “OK … literally seconds before I go to work, how ’bout this for an impeachable offense — murder of two American citizens abroad without due process? Seems a pretty nasty crime to me.”

    Summarizing an explanation in a PoliSci seminar I took a couple years ago…

    “Due process” is not always a trial in a court of law. I some cases, the “process” is for legal scholars (read: presidential yes-men, and would probably include a judge) to advise the president (or executive, which suggests it could also be a governor, but I don’t know) and then the president makes a decision.

    As long as a legal (as opposed to the, because there is more than 1) process is followed, the person has received their due.

    Basically, “due process” is meant to keep our elected kings from arbitrarily (and that is the key part) walking down the street and saying, “punish him” for no reason. That was probably a lot more important in the 18th century than it is now.

    When you think about it in today’s context, the whole thing is kind of a joke.

  26. Best and most sobering letter I have read in a long, long time. He’s right – and we will all suffer for it; especially those cheering it.


    We Are Not Coming Back

    Please take a moment to digest this provocative article by a Jewish Rabbi from Teaneck, N.J. It is far and away the most succinct and thoughtful explanation of how our nation is changing. The article appeared in The Israel National News, and is directed to Jewish readership. 70% of American Jews vote as Democrats. The Rabbi has some interesting comments in that regard.

    Rabbi Steven Pruzansky is the spiritual leader of Congregation Bnai Yeshurun in Teaneck, New Jersey

    “The most charitable way of explaining the election results of 2012 is that Americans voted for the status quo – for the incumbent President and for a divided Congress. They must enjoy gridlock, partisanship, incompetence, economic stagnation and avoidance of responsibility. And fewer people voted.

    But as we awake from the nightmare, it is important to eschew the facile explanations for the Romney defeat that will prevail among the chattering classes. Romney did not lose because of the effects of Hurricane Sandy that devastated this area, nor did he lose because he ran a poor campaign, nor did he lose because the Republicans could have chosen better candidates, nor did he lose because Obama benefited from a slight uptick in the economy due to the business cycle.

    Romney lost because he didn’t get enough votes to win.

    That might seem obvious, but not for the obvious reasons. Romney lost because the conservative virtues – the traditional American virtues – of liberty, hard work, free enterprise, private initiative and aspirations to moral greatness – no longer inspire or animate a majority of the electorate.

    The simplest reason why Romney lost was because it is impossible to compete against free stuff.

    Every businessman knows this; that is why the “loss leader” or the giveaway is such a powerful marketing tool. Obama’s America is one in which free stuff is given away: the adults among the 47,000,000 on food stamps clearly recognized for whom they should vote, and so they did, by the tens of millions; those who – courtesy of Obama – receive two full years of unemployment benefits (which, of course, both disincentivizes looking for work and also motivates people to work off the books while collecting their windfall) surely know for whom to vote. The lure of free stuff is irresistible.

    The defining moment of the whole campaign was the revelation of the secretly-recorded video in which Romney acknowledged the difficulty of winning an election in which “47% of the people” start off against him because they pay no taxes and just receive money – “free stuff” – from the government.

    Almost half of the population has no skin in the game – they don’t care about high taxes, promoting business, or creating jobs, nor do they care that the money for their free stuff is being borrowed from their children and from the Chinese.

    They just want the free stuff that comes their way at someone else’s expense. In the end, that 47% leaves very little margin for error for any Republican, and does not bode well for the future.

    It is impossible to imagine a conservative candidate winning against such overwhelming odds. People do vote their pocketbooks. In essence, the people vote for a Congress who will not raise their taxes, and for a President who will give them free stuff, never mind who has to pay for it.

    That engenders the second reason why Romney lost: the inescapable conclusion that the electorate is ignorant and uninformed. Indeed, it does not pay to be an informed voter, because most other voters – the clear majority – are unintelligent and easily swayed by emotion and raw populism. That is the indelicate way of saying that too many people vote with their hearts and not their heads. That is why Obama did not have to produce a second term agenda, or even defend his first-term record. He needed only to portray Mitt Romney as a rapacious capitalist who throws elderly women over a cliff, when he is not just snatching away their cancer medication, while starving the poor and cutting taxes for the rich.

    During his 1956 presidential campaign, a woman called out to Adlai Stevenson: “Senator, you have the vote of every thinking person!” Stevenson called back: “That’s not enough, madam, we need a majority!”

    Truer words were never spoken.

    Obama could get away with saying that “Romney wants the rich to play by a different set of rules” – without ever defining what those different rules were; with saying that the “rich should pay their fair share” – without ever defining what a “fair share” is; with saying that Romney wants the poor, elderly and sick to “fend for themselves” – without even acknowledging that all these government programs are going bankrupt, their current insolvency only papered over by deficit spending.

    Similarly, Obama (or his surrogates) could hint to blacks that a Romney victory would lead them back into chains and proclaim to women that their abortions and birth control would be taken away. He could appeal to Hispanics that Romney would have them all arrested and shipped to Mexico and unabashedly state that he will not enforce the current immigration laws. He could espouse the furtherance of the incestuous relationship between governments and unions – in which politicians ply the unions with public money, in exchange for which the unions provide the politicians with votes, in exchange for which the politicians provide more money and the unions provide more votes, etc., even though the money is gone.

    Obama also knows that the electorate has changed – that whites will soon be a minority in America (they’re already a minority in California) and that the new immigrants to the US are primarily from the Third World and do not share the traditional American values that attracted immigrants in the 19th and 20th centuries. It is a different world, and a different America. Obama is part of that different America, knows it, and knows how to tap into it. That is why he won.

    Obama also proved again that negative advertising works, invective sells, and harsh personal attacks succeed. That Romney never engaged in such diatribes points to his essential goodness as a person; his “negative ads” were simple facts, never personal abuse – facts about high unemployment, lower take-home pay, a loss of American power and prestige abroad, a lack of leadership, etc. As a politician, though, Romney failed because he did not embrace the devil’s bargain of making unsustainable promises.

    It turned out that it was not possible for Romney and Ryan – people of substance, depth and ideas – to compete with the shallow populism and platitudes of their opponents. Obama mastered the politics of envy – of class warfare – never reaching out to Americans as such but to individual groups, and cobbling together a winning majority from these minority groups. If an Obama could not be defeated – with his record and his vision of America, in which free stuff seduces voters – it is hard to envision any change in the future.

    The road to Hillary Clinton in 2016 and to a European-socialist economy – those very economies that are collapsing today in Europe – is paved.

    For Jews, mostly assimilated anyway and staunch Democrats, the results demonstrate again that liberalism is their Torah. Almost 70% voted for a president widely perceived by Israelis and most committed Jews as hostile to Israel. They voted to secure Obama’s future at America ‘s expense and at Israel ‘s expense – in effect, preferring Obama to Netanyahu by a wide margin.

    A dangerous time is ahead. Under present circumstances, it is inconceivable that the US will take any aggressive action against Iran and will more likely thwart any Israeli initiative. The US will preach the importance of negotiations up until the production of the first Iranian nuclear weapon – and then state that the world must learn to live with this new reality.

    But this election should be a wake-up call to Jews. There is no permanent empire, nor is there an enduring haven for Jews anywhere in the exile. The American empire began to decline in 2007, and the deterioration has been exacerbated in the last five years. This election only hastens that decline.

    Society is permeated with sloth, greed, envy and materialistic excess. It has lost its moorings and its moral foundations. The takers outnumber the givers, and that will only increase in years to come.

    The “Occupy” riots across this country in the last two years were mere dress rehearsals for what lies ahead – years of unrest sparked by the increasing discontent of the unsuccessful who want to seize the fruits and the bounty of the successful, and do not appreciate the slow pace of redistribution.

    If this election proves one thing, it is that the Old America is gone. And, sad for the world, it is not coming back.”

    The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

  27. Re: #32 – R did you just bring up what you consider an impeachable offense, chide the Republicans for being too cowardly to say so – and yet you voted No yourself? And when did I deny “ANY racist element to the opposition?” Hell I think there’s also a racist element to the SUPPORT for this president. In fact the percentages are probably very close! I’ve said it before – I have one question for Joe Biden, and the same question for Hillary Clinton. Have you ever used the N-word?

    Before 2008 we were a generation or two away from a veritable and NATURAL end to systemic racism in this country, IMO. The biggest cause of backsliding from our natural progress in the wake of the battles for freedom and equality – battles which were WON by the right side – is the culture of discontentedness and settling old scores and especially of violence against people which have caused you no injury. It’s not the small percentage of pathological sentiments among protest signs at freeway overpasses.


    Pelosi made a reasonable case for not being able to work with the president and impeach him at the same time.

    The biggest problem I have with Obama is the contempt for being questioned by anyone and the spirit and practices of concealment from top to bottom and side to side, with the press in his pocket.

    I doubt McDreamy as popular with the armed forces as he is with the ladies and the yute of today.

  28. I guess, since Obama has already unilaterally attacked 1 country (Libya), as far as the person quoted above is concerned, that is an impeachable offense.

    So Rutherford…and Lurker…there’s the answer to your question.

    President Obama has violated Article 1, Section 8, Paragraph 11 of the United States Constitution.

  29. “Momentum grows for military action against Syria” AP headline. WTF? Momentum, bullshit. Let’s call it like it really is – coercion. This is all part of the Yinon plan. We’re (US) just the means to an end.

  30. I watched the O’Reilly factor tonight – I got out of that habit after the election and to be honest, I haven’t missed it. Highly recommend Killing Kennedy as a book – side note.

    Very interesting discussion about what to do in Syria. Colonel David Hunt and Ralph Peters, two military men I respect, said let our enemies kill each other. Assad, Hezbollah and Iran on one side; Al Qaeda and other crazies on the other. Charles Krauthammer, another man whose intellect I respect said, decimate Syria’s air power and assist in the overthrow of Assad – but none of this Clintonian crap about launching cruise missiles into tents.

    And both made equally valid cases for choosing each side.

    It’s a mess.

  31. Of all the types of aggression the USA has ever used the Libya and Syria stuff is the worse. I cannot stress enough how this slope is the wrong slope to be skiing on. Interfering in the sovereignty of nations where our nation holds no real interests is lunacy. If we can’t back away from this kind of stuff we surely can’t back off the other forms of gunboat diplomacy and my friends that game is a no win for the USA,our hand is all played out.

  32. Rutherford I don’t like the phraseology of your poll. Bottom line I don’t think Obama has committed an impeachable act. I especially disagree with Hucks constitutional interpretations.
    I can say I offer without partisan bent that I find BHO the worse POTUS of my lifetime and solidly in the top 5 suck prez

  33. I was thinking last night….what if Russia and China, both of which are already condemning possible attacks, were to say “an attack on Syria is a red line”?

  34. “especially disagree with Hucks constitutional interpretations.”

    They aren’t my constitutional interpretations. They are the constitutional interpretations of the current Vice President of the United States.

  35. ” Interfering in the sovereignty of nations where our nation holds no real interests is lunacy.”

    But isn’t that the question? Isn’t there potential for an entire breakdown in the region that might block strategic waterways etc?

    I’m just asking.

  36. Isn’t there potential for an entire breakdown in the region that might block strategic waterways etc?

    That has been a concern for quite some time. Take thirty minutes to read up on the Yinon plan. It will give you a better perspective of the recent goings on in the entire region.

  37. Poolman, 🙄

    So this Syria civil war is all Israel’s doing? Excuse me. I mean, the Zionist doing? Where do you dig up these relics?

    I don’t suppose you happen to notice this, did you?

    Oded Yinon’s
    “A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties”
    Published by the
    Association of Arab-American University Graduates, Inc.
    Belmont, Massachusetts, 1982

  38. We’re the hammer. We’ve been forged over the centuries. Ask God to give you eyes to see and ears to hear. What nation has benefited the most over this past decade?

  39. “Isn’t there potential for an entire breakdown in the region that might block strategic waterways etc?”

    This is made worse by our entry.

    If we get involved and that triggers Iran to get involved, then the Persian Gulf/Strait of Hormuz comes into play. Then we’re back to reflagging and escorting oil tankers and shooting down passenger planes…not to mention what will happen to the price of a gallon of gasoline.

    All so Cowboy Barack can back up his red line threats.

    Yippie kai yea, mother fucker

  40. I still say Obama doesn’t follow through. He and his administration have never owned anything they’ve done. I think he’ll look for a dodge (e.g. UN inspector’s finding are inclusive as to the cause) and justify inaction no matter what Kerry has said. A pitiful and ineffective missile attack is too transparent and will make things worse. That’s my six-pack bet.

    If anybody wants a laugh, check out Iowa Hawk’s tweets on #NameObamasNewWar. Favorite? “Operation Enduring Hypocrisy.”

  41. I wouldn’t mind if he didn’t follow through.

    Issuing his Red Line threat was a mistake. Not following through on it is worthy of a laugh, but isn’t a mistake. You don’t correct mistakes by making more.

    This would be the 3rd war in less than 5 years for President Peace Prize. And he still has time to fit Iran and Yemen in there before he’s done.

  42. “A pitiful and ineffective missile attack is too transparent and will make things worse.” -Tigre

    Dear Leader certainly backed himself into a corner.

    I disagree that doing nothing is an option while Iran watches our every movie with Uranium stained evil eyes.

    However, lobbing in only a few missiles might make us even more of a laughing stock. Call me crazy, but knocking Assad completely out of the game is not in our interests. See Colonel David Hunt.

    So…..3 days of shock and awe. Except we not only bomb Assad’s assets but rebel forces who are tied to Al Queda. It sucks….and innocents will die…..but I think this will be our best option.
    Both extremes of the middle east need to tremor with fear.

    After the dust settles…Assad and Al Queda can go back to war….hopefully using rocks and arrows.

  43. By the way.,…..why the Obama administration blabbing so much about what we will do before we do it? So weird man…..

  44. “Not following through on it is worthy of a laugh, but isn’t a mistake.”

    I disagree. If Iran wasn’t attempting to be a nuclear juggernaut…then yeah.

  45. @ Rutherford our interference especially on the Wilsonian grounds that are being put forth will cause the problems you are concerned with. Here are my thoughts:
    The only country that has a vested interest in Assad keeping the reins regards waterways is Russia,I hate to be a broken record but Tartus.
    If we were to enter I do not think Iran would involve the Straits of Hormuz or take actions in the Gulf. Iran is not allied in this matter with the Russians even if they are singing a few of the same notes. In truth The Iranians are as pitted against the Russians,specifically in the Caspian as any two nations are. Iran’s role in this is their relationship vis a vis the Shiites.That is nothing to do for the Russians except for potential trade concerns.
    FWIW the Qatari and Saudi interests are rooted in the Sunni thing.
    Tipping the Assad Alawite dominoes further afield will only cause unrest ,tension and possibly even conflict.
    Israel is vested in stability that ironically is best served with Assad staying in control. The Israelis don’t need the Golan Heights to become a renewed area of invasion.

  46. Russia and China both walked out of a UNSC meeting today. So forget about either of them, let alone both of them, abstaining on a vote.

    Looks like if Cowboy Obama bombs Syria, he’ll be doing it without UN OR congressional approval.

    But hey, France, Israel, and the Arab League all approve, so that’s good enough, right?

  47. Dear Leader and his shit talkin’ without a policy did back himself into a corner.

    I’m not saying doing nothing is the right option. I think its an option for Dear Leader who sees no downside to projecting weakness to our enemies while ironically trying to project strength to uninformed voters.

  48. Alfie, Rutherford and his fellow Obama supporters couldn’t care less about the shit Obama gets us into or the repercussions its brings. If it makes him look good, that’s good enough. If it makes the GOP look bad, even better.

    Their silence on the eve of Obama’s 3rd war is deafening. Obama’s going to start bombing yet another sovereign nation because he doesn’t want to look like a chump who issues empty threats. And there isn’t a liberal within earshot that has a thing to say about it.

    Hell, Ed Schultz today is blaming the whole thing on—you guessed it—conservatives.

  49. “Their silence on the eve of Obama’s 3rd war is deafening.” -Huck

    They are bar none the most hollow, hypocritical people one Earth.

  50. Ed Shultz blames conservatives….lol

    there is no discussion to be had with these liberals. they are fucking hollow.

  51. “Their silence on the eve of Obama’s 3rd war is deafening.”

    Not necessarily true. All my liberal radio talk shows today were against our getting involved with Syria.

  52. Evidently Lurker is right. An attack on Syria is so opposed by Obama’s base that he isn’t expected to address the nation before any strikes begin.

    He’s not gonna talk to the UN…he’s not gonna talk to congress…he isn’t even gonna talk to us.

    And why not? Because it’s “passe”

    I don’t know how anyone that voted for this man can look in the mirror. Shame on you all.

    You did this.


  53. Can you believe this?

    “President Barack Obama promised Wednesday that any U.S. military strike at Syria would be a “shot across the bow” that avoids seeing America pulled into “any kind of open-ended conflict.”

    Yeah. Maybe another line. Let’s make this one. . . magenta.

  54. Harvard Study Dispels Myth Gun Control Reduces Murder Rates…

    Once again, a study from an organization that you would never accuse of being “gun-loving” or “right-wing” seems to disprove the myth that the availability of handguns increases murder rates. In fact, it doesn’t.

    The Harvard study attempts to answer the question of whether or not banning firearms would reduce murders and suicides. Researchers looked at crime data from several European countries and found that countries with HIGHER gun ownership often had LOWER murder rates.

    Russia, for example, enforces very strict gun control on its people, but its murder rate remains quite high. In fact, the murder rate in Russia is four times higher than in the “gun-ridden” United States, cites the study. ”Homicide results suggest that where guns are scarce other weapons are substituted in killings.” In other words, the elimination of guns does not eliminate murder, and in the case of gun-controlled Russia, murder rates are quite high.

    The study revealed several European countries with significant gun ownership, like Norway, Finland, Germany and France – had remarkably low murder rates. Contrast that with Luxembourg, “where handguns are totally banned and ownership of any kind of gun is minimal, had a murder rate nine times higher than Germany in 2002.”

  55. “I don’t know how anyone that voted for this man can look in the mirror. Shame on you all.
    You did this.

    If it makes you feel better to blame me then be my guest . Unfortunately it is not that simple, is it. Our military is for our defense not offense. Follow the money.

    Perhaps if YOU and me had held your Dear Leaders responsible for their actions then my Dear Leader would think twice about his actions.

    Personally I am very surprised. I didn’t think there was a possible war that a Republican didn’t like..or is it only when a Democrat starts it?

  56. Tigre@55 That comment should go down in history as one of the most inane comments to come out of this presidency. We thought “Bushisms” were bad!

    Has anyone considered that Syria’s use of chemicals was done to provoke an international incident to test the waters?

  57. “Perhaps if YOU and me had held your Dear Leaders responsible for their actions then my Dear Leader would think twice about his actions.”


    Please expand.

  58. Has anyone considered that Syria’s use of chemicals was done to provoke an international incident to test the waters?

    Absolutely. I think you’d have to be really naive not to think that, in fact.

    Problem is, I read this morning we still have no true confirmation who even released the gas.

    Nothing has changed my opinion yet. If Germany had attacked Japan in 1941, would we have picked a side?

  59. The west is the one who provoked this ‘civil unrest’ in the first place.

    I’ll give you one thing. You’re consistent.

    But if the West is the one continually provoking unrest, why would you want to be a part of that, Lee Harvey?

  60. “If it makes you feel better to blame me then be my guest . Unfortunately it is not that simple, is it. Our military is for our defense not offense. Follow the money.”

    Who is the Commander-in-Chief?….the man you elected.

    “Perhaps if YOU and me had held your Dear Leaders responsible for their actions then my Dear Leader would think twice about his actions.”

    I did hold him responsible for his actions…I tried to fire him by voting for Romney. How have you held Obama responsible for his actions? And, more importantly…how would you hold him accountable for his actions? You have yet to respond to that, and this time you brought it up.

    In 1 portion you toss out the “follow the money” excuse, as if Obama is simply a victim here. And in the next you claim to want leaders held accountable for their actions.

    “Personally I am very surprised. I didn’t think there was a possible war that a Republican didn’t like..or is it only when a Democrat starts it?”

    I don’t think anyone “likes” any war. Some are believed to be necessary at the time. This won’t be on that list.

    100,000 people have been killed in Syria. Chemical weapons have killed about 1% of them. This isn’t about saving lives. This is about saving Obama’s street cred.

    Think about that, Lurker.

    Barack Obama is going to order the bombing of a sovereign nation….an action that will KILL people…so that he won’t look like a chump.

    And you put him in office. You.

    Bush might have been wrong, but his intentions were sincere. Obama’s aren’t. He’s not trying to save America…he’s trying to save his ass.

    Yes. I blame you and everyone else that voted for this egomaniac.


    “I think what is more astounding is that Huck subscribes to Ed’s Twitter feed.”

    Not hardly

  61. “Please expand.”

    She’s trying to blame us..and, by extension, Bush. Obama gets to attack other countries because we allowed Bush to do it.

  62. I know what she’s trying to do. It’s so blindingly stupid at first blush that I am certain there’s got to be something more to it otherwise she’d have drowned looking skyward in a rainstorm by now.

    Again, the left holds Obama to no standards at all. Ever. It’s demented.

  63. the left is so vapid they can’t be engaged. i doubt the right will win a presidential election ever gain……but….the left won’t be able to look anyone in the eyes ever again as well.

    its all so transparent now….not just in the way dear leader promised.

  64. Imagine waking Washington or Jefferson up and explaining the world situation to them and showing them our footprint and entire security apparatus, then explaining who owns all the pieces parts within that apparatus…

    Is it profound stupidity or profound ignorance we suffer? Where is the null and void button. Hasn’t the contract we established with government been breached? Who set up these encumbrances from reestablishing justice and balance? We are already at war, just not officially, but we are deeply involved.

    There is also no certainty as to how a war will unfold or end, thus the possibility exists that one war, one day, may lead to World War III, or the detonation of a nuclear bomb, or both. Because any conflict could spiral out of control, and because nuclear weapons are so prolific and powerful, humanity must move toward peace as to reduce the chances of annihilating ourselves. There are already enough challenges threatening the survival of the human species; we could do without more flare-ups, wars, and destruction right now. In order to achieve a more harmonious balance amongst the members of the international community, it is important realize that our leaders are often full of shit. It’s hard to say if such a realization – even on a large scale which results in citizenry action –will translate into any significant change for the current arrangement in the political order and operations of the war machine in time to avert any major potential conflict or to achieve a more representative government in our society.

    In conclusion, I would like to provide two examples of how our leaders are full of shit. The first pertains to another comment that John Kerry recently made in which he demonstrates his doublethink capabilities. In an interview with Pakistan’s Geo News on August 1st, Kerry was asked what he thought about the Egyptian military overthrowing elected president Morsi, who was in office for one year. Kerry stated, “The military was asked to intervene by millions and millions of people, all of whom were afraid of a descendance into chaos, into violence. And the military did not take over, to the best of our judgment, so far — so far — to run the country. There’s a civilian government. In effect, they were restoring democracy.”

    The second example demonstrating how our leaders are full of shit involves what will happen today when President Obama takes the stage on the Lincoln Memorial to honor Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. On the fiftieth anniversary of the March on Washington, President Obama will speak of Dr. King’s legacy and contribution to the Civil Rights Movement. He will speak about the values of nonviolence and justice that Dr. King espoused, and how we still have much work to do in order to see that Dr. King’s dream is accomplished. President Obama will be speak of peace and reconciliation and love – for these are the values that Martin Luther King, Jr. stood for and died for – then President Obama will walk away and help facilitate the bombing of Syria.


  65. I’m all for the fast food strikes. if it ends up working, they were under paid. if it doesn’t…..they weren’t. Where the strike goes wrong is with the leftist calls for government intervention of some sort……but….on its face…..its awesome to walk off and say “fuck you pay me more to burn my arms on the deep frier”. Just don’t bitch if your fired.

  66. I’m shocked Rabbit that in the advent it ain’t obvious to the strikers that people were lining up around the block for even low wage food jobs in many big cities due the Bomba economy, the McDonald’s CEO has not come the monitor, cigar in mouth with Geisha girl walking on his back and a towel wrapped around his ass and said:

    I’ll give you four hours to get your sorry asses to work. If you’re not here, you’re fired and will be summarily thrown off the premises by the nape of your neck for good measure. If you do happen to show back up, you’re cleaning the toilets for a week while you think about your actions.

    The decision is yours.

  67. lol…….Don’t get me wrong boys…..I’m all for the CEO and his McGeisha saying exactly that.

    Collective labor is the ultimate test of a labor market. Ronald McDonald can only say that if he has replacements. I think he does…..thousands of them.

  68. “Bush might have been wrong, but his intentions were sincere.”
    Are you not doing the very thing you accuse me of doing…excusing the actions of your Dear Leader? But I will agree Bush was quite sincere about starting a war, any war, so he could go down in history as a war president and use that capital/power to pass a number of really bad things – No child left behind, Medicare Part D, Dept. of Homeland Security, Patriot Act, yes he wasn’t alone there were others. Bush’s only regret; he didn’t privatize SS. Cheney was sincere in doing it for the money. Talk about freakin huge egos!

    “Obama’s aren’t. He’s not trying to save America…he’s trying to save his ass.”
    He told you that? Personally I go with Texas SR Steve Toth’s opinion –
    “Obama is taking the US to war with Syria and Russia so he can support his friends from Al Qaeda in Syria.”

    “How have you held Obama responsible for his actions? And, more importantly…how would you hold him accountable for his actions? You have yet to respond to that, and this time you brought it up.”

    Did I miss something? No sense getting my panties in a bunch until I see what course of action he actually takes. But you are right. I won’t make a statement/decision with out proper information. I know the game; I will not play it, sorry.

    100,000 people have been killed in Syria. Chemical weapons have killed about 1% of them. This isn’t about saving lives. This is about saving Obama’s street cred.
    I would be interested in the country of origin for those chemicals. Please don’t tell me the reason we could not find WMD in Iraqi was they were sent to Syria.

    No president comes in office with a perfectly clean slate to work with. They have to deal with the good and the bad from the previous administration.

  69. “No sense getting my panties in a bunch until I see what course of action he actually takes.”

    Your panties will never bunch. It’s obvious that it doesn’t really matter to you what Obama does, only that Obama does it. You’ll defend it no matter what.

    Why don’t you be tell us what is acceptable and unacceptable in advance?

    (that’s rhetorical)

  70. “Or how about not taking the job to begin with. Fuck.” -Tigre

    Most do that. And they get paid big time for it too by you know who…

  71. “Why don’t you be tell us what is acceptable and unacceptable in advance? ”

    That’s a great question, Tigre. Come one Lurker…..please?

  72. I would be interested in the country of origin for those chemicals. Please don’t tell me the reason we could not find WMD in Iraqi was they were sent to Syria.


    How would you know that not a very distinct possibility? I’ve been telling you BDS loons that for ten years now, that not only that a possibility that a weapons cache shipped from Iraq to Syria, but a very distinct possibility – there was a great deal of border traffic monitored before the start of the Iraqi War as Syria and Iraq share a common border.

    We know for an absolute fact Saddam Hussein held chemical weapons as he demonstrated twice on his own people.

    What makes you so sure Lurker what you are seeing are not chemical weapons made in Iraq before the start of the war?

  73. Does everyone notice that Lurker flat out refuses to hold Obama to the same standards as Bush.

    She wants Bush held as a war criminal, but refuses to say what should happen if Obama does it. Like Obama and Jay Carney…she won’t answer questions about hypotheticals.

    “Are you not doing the very thing you accuse me of doing…excusing the actions of your Dear Leader?”

    I’m not excusing them, I’m explaining them. Bush fucked up, but he had a reason for fucking up and, contrary to what you claim here…those reasons weren’t about himself.

    If it was simply about “any war,” he had Afghanistan. surely you remember Afghanistan…it’s the war Obama doubled down on.

    “He told you that?”

    Yes he did. Just like Bush told you why he went to war. Are you serious with this grade-school level bullshit? I showed you the link that says he wants to do just enough to avoid being mocked. Let’s see your link about Bush needing any war so he could go down in history.

    “No president comes in office with a perfectly clean slate to work with. They have to deal with the good and the bad from the previous administration.”

    Does that include Bush and having to deal with the Clinton admin telling him Iraq still was a threat to the world?

  74. We make these chemical weapons. We gave them to Saddam. Al nuhsra, or whatever these paid thugs are being called, have already been found with sarin gas on several occasions. The WMDs lie worked before, after all. We’re the ones leaving the contaminants around the world that cause generational damage. There’s even word that some will be used soon against the US and blamed on Assad.

  75. The UK parliament has voted NOT to allow the UK to get involved in any action against Syria.

    Obama has painted himself into a corner with his election year bravado. Remember way back when we were told how savvy this guy was? Pfft….

    On the 1 hand, he must “punish” (his words, Lurker) Syria because it crossed his “red Line.” He has already sent a shitload of warships to the region to do it. If he doesn’t attack Syria at this point, he looks like a chump to the entire international community and to his own people.

    On the other hand, if he DOES do it, he will be doing so without UN approval (which Bush also didn’t get), without congressional approval (which Bush did get), without help from key allies (which Bush did get), and perhaps without even addressing the American people about it (which Bush did do). Things that got his predecessor labeled a war criminal and threats of congressional impeachment.

    All of this could have been avoided if Barack Obama hadn’t issued his Red Line threat about a situation which, at that time, was a hypothetical.

    Isn’t it funny when hypotheticals do and don’t matter?

  76. “Why don’t you be tell us what is acceptable and unacceptable in advance?”

    Credit where it’s due…Lurker did say thinks we should mind out own business in Syria.

    She just refuses to say what should happen if we don’t.

    I think she’s trying out for Jay Carney’s spot. No WHPS lasts forever. You go, girl!

  77. Huck, then she (he?) says, “I won’t make a statement/decision with out proper information. I know the game; I will not play it, sorry.”

    I await a reasoned response. . .

  78. “I await a reasoned response. . .”

    Good luck with that. Lurker thinks Bush invaded Iraq so he could pass NCLB and Medicare Part B.

  79. re: 106…. very well said

    Obama’s problem is there is no way he can lie his way out of this one. He’s fucked. This kind of stuff always happens to guys like him. Sooner or later…you just can’t lie, campaign, bull shit etc. He is truly fucked. And we are already paying for it in the cost of a barrel of black gold. I fear the other unintended circumstances that may manifest themselves in the future.

    I doubt Lurker will be back for awhile. If so…she will complain about you being a meanie or your tone is harsh.

  80. “Good luck with that. Lurker thinks Bush invaded Iraq so he could pass NCLB…..” Hucking

    Lol…yup….the invasion of Iraq was hatched in a smokey Department of Education back room between George Bush, Teddy Kennedy and George Miller III.

    I think it was that bastard George Miller III that faked the WMD intel. Bastard.

  81. Make that Part D.

    Also…NCLB was passed in 2001. We invaded Iraq in 2003.

    I await the inevitable “who said I was talking about Iraq?” which will bring this discussion to a new level of hilarity.

  82. Ive been reading up on some more regional coverage sources regard Syria. There was tidbit I was unaware of and it makes some sense. Let me share.
    Turns out Bashar has a brother that doesn’t really care for him. The brother by virtue of being part of a dictatorial family has a major role within the regime,specifically he commands the Syrian Republican guard and the Syrians best armored unit,the 4th Div. Guess where the 4th is headquartered….Yup the suburbs of Damascus.
    There are multiple sources who reason out that Bashar probably didn’t authorize the chemical attack and that if indeed it came from loyalist sides it very well might of been a “rogue” action by lower officers or perhaps Assads brother. The unit location,history and equipment would allow for it. The thought that even though he’s the brother and member of the minority sect if he could get the West to whack Bashar lil bro could step up to the big chair.
    Sibling rivalry yet enough war within the wars that is the Syrian civil war.

  83. Huck in my regional press scouring I’ve determined that a potential out for Obama is something via Turkey. I’m not sold on exactly what that might look like but it is somewhat annoying that one of the loudest voices for spanking Assad is also one that won’t pledge military support for anything to do something about it.
    Interesting p.s. for 114 that fits with this comment as well. Assad’s brothers units/supporters are questionably connected to the two incidents that have involved Turkey

  84. “There are multiple sources who reason out that Bashar probably didn’t authorize the chemical attack and that if indeed it came from loyalist sides” -Alfie

    If it didn’t come from the loyalist side we need to invade and occupy Syria.

  85. One of my colleagues says that Kerry likely got out ahead of Obama in his missive. Shocking really — at least to me. If so, Obama and Kerry collectively are epitomize truly intolerable incompetence in foreign affairs. It should be impeachable.

  86. “a potential out for Obama is something via Turkey.”

    No. There is no face-saving “out” for Obama. He’s made too much noise. Today his clan is even signaling that they can go it alone if need be.

    Mind you, that doesn’t mean Obama won’t TRY and use that as an out. In fact, it would be typical Obama.

    “I wanted to go bomb Assad, but those pussy Turks wouldn’t let me. Blame them.”

  87. Actually I was thinking more along the lines that o needs an incident involving the Turks so as to have regional and NATO juice. The Turks have defensive issues and they do see to want to play a role on the diplomatic front. All in all if something moved Ankarra perhaps…
    Again let me say this isn’t what I want just what I see as plausible and possible.

  88. “I wanted to go bomb Assad, but those pussy Turks wouldn’t let me. Blame them
    As I understand it unlike how the Turks porked the US 4th by denying use back in the day they have approved the use of the [?] Incilik air base for a strike.

  89. Good to see there are at least some democrats who have consistency.

    The opposition to President Obama launching unilateral military operations in Syria exploded on Thursday when dozens of liberal Democrats joined scores of conservative Republicans in warning the administration that any strikes without congressional approval would violate the Constitution.

    In a letter to Obama, 53 liberal Democrats — including a long list of Congressional Black Caucus (CBC) members — argued that, while the human rights atrocities being committed by the forces of Syrian President Bashar Assad are “horrific,” they alone “should not draw us into an unwise war – especially without adhering to our own constitutional requirement.”

    Too bad they are forgetting he has already done it once.

  90. Lurker, I want to be the first here to congratulate you and Rutherford for your support of Jimmy Carter…especially, the big reelection win.

    The percentage of Americans who have a job or are looking for one, known as the labor force participation rate (LFPR), has plunged to a 34-year low.

    Any bets that Syria officially becomes Obama’s Iran before it is through?

    How ironic those screaming chicken hawk are now playing chicken hawk.

  91. Our European allies have such a high regard for Barack Obama that the only 1 he can get to help him is France.

    It’s pretty bad when a country with actual royalty is practicing stronger democratic principles than we are.

    Meanwhile, someone is using the Facebook page of Assad’s 11-year-old son to goad King Obama into an attack. Still think this wasn’t about making Obama look like a punk (regardless of which Assad did it)?

  92. Still think this wasn’t about making Obama look like a punk (regardless of which Assad did it)?

    How about England and France goading Obama? That is more the case. It isn’t Assad punking O, rather the ninnies of NATO. If Rmoney was POTUS, we’d already be bombing Syria and Iran, too. Probably N Korea and whomever else the chosen wanted bombed. Kerry is an ass. And he has a lot of company…

  93. ABC News claims this is all because Obama didn’t use his teleprompter 1 day….

    “While Obama has long spoken out against Bashar al-Assad and the use of chemical weapons, it was the president’s apparent off-the-cuff comments one year ago that may now be most responsible for putting the U.S. in a bind.”

    Worst. President. Ever.

  94. “If Rmoney was POTUS, we’d already be bombing Syria and Iran, too. Probably N Korea and whomever else the chosen wanted bombed.”

    You don’t know that.

    For starters, he would probably respect the constitution and seek congressional approval for any military action against anyone….which he would not get.

    King Obama is a joke and the checks his ego has been writing for 5 years are finally starting to bounce.

    Good job, Dems.

  95. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

    What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income — to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression. That’s what I’m opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics. Now let me be clear — I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity. He’s a bad guy. The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.

    But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history. I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaida. I am not opposed to all wars. I’m opposed to dumb wars. – Sen. Barack Obama, 2002

  96. If they have been predicting attacks on Iran and North Korea for years, it shows what their opinions are worth.

    If they have been predicting for years that Mitt Romney would attack those countries, it shows their opinions are worth even less.

  97. “US Secretary of State John Kerry has said that the United States will not wait for UN weapons inspectors to finish their work before deciding whether or not to launch military strikes against Syria.
    The US government released a four-page document on Friday which assessed, with a “high degree of confidence,” that the Syrian government carried out the attack.”

  98. Bush gave UN inspectors years. Obama won’t give them a week.

    Bush got advise and consent of congress. Obama has advisors make conference calls to select congressmen.

    Bush got help from multiple allies. Obama might get help from France.

    Bush had the initial support of a majority of Americans. Obama has the initial support of 20-25% (depending in the poll) of Americans.

    America opposes this. Our allies oppose this. Congress might oppose this (we don’t know since Obama doesn’t bother to ask).

  99. Did you mean Iran ala Jimmy Carter or Iraq? I’m confused.

    Like Iran was Carter’s final nail in the coffin to distinguish his ineptness for the whole world to see and remove all doubt, Syria will be Obama’s permanent foot in mouth disease.

  100. Syria’s chemical weapons poses a threat to our allies in the region, and based on that we must unilaterally strike…

    “He called the Syrian attack a “challenge to the world” that threatens U.S. allies Israel, Turkey and Jordan while increasing the risk of such weapons falling into the hands of terrorists.”

    …but we aren’t going to strike its chemical weapons stockpiles.

    “Obama told reporters he had yet to make a final decision, but hinted at a military strike that sources and experts say would entail cruise missiles fired from U.S. naval ships at Syrian command targets — but not any chemical weapons stockpiles.”

    So we are going to bomb the group fighting the terrorists…but not bomb the chemical weapons…so that the chemical weapons don’t fall into the hands of the terrorists.

    Smart power…..

  101. “Bush had the initial support of a majority of Americans. Obama has the initial support of 20-25% (depending in the poll) of Americans.”

    Yes Obama has 20% because America is saying we won’t get fooled again. And who fooled us? Wait for it …


  102. Rutherford finally breaks his silence on the matter and what does he do?….blame Bush.

    Rutherford, would you care to make a comment on what the current president is planning to do?

  103. I’d venture that Obama has fooled America, as well.

    Remember when he campaigned on the unilateral bombing of sovereign nations that pose us no direct threat?

    When he promised to go it alone in conflict when he couldn’t get the support of our allies, of the UN, of Congress, or the American people?

    Me either.

  104. re 137, their opinions are more weighty than yours. And especially if you don’t give theirs any consideration but discount them outright. Remember, you voted for Rmoney based on some fantasy that the GOP could be more fiscally responsible or some other mumbo jumbo bullshit they promised. Too bad the record doesn’t reflect that at all. All reliable indicators are this thing has been unraveling since Reagan, with Bush greasing the rails. There is also more proof now revealing the Rmoney camp was responsible for the Benghazi fiasco in an effort to derail Obama’s reelection. A premature October surprise, if you will.

    The latest news claims Saudi Arabia provided the gas to an unspecified al Qaeda group. But then, we love Saudi Arabia almost as much as we do Israel. They are the only two groups we captured and released during the 911 roundup. The old catch and release sport of espionage. Politics makes for strange bedfellows…

  105. PM, talk to me about what their predictions are worth after we attack Iran and North Korea.

    Romney was responsible for Benghazi?..what the fuck? Did Bart Simpson tell you that?

    Maybe he financed the YouTube video that sparked the attacks. Oh wait…it wasn’t about a video. Nevermind.

    Maybe he armed the terrorists that attacked. Oh wait…Obama did that. Nevermind.

  106. Poor Huck. Guy only has insipid Lurker and fantasy foolman to engage. Must feel like one of those dreams where you can’t scream.

    I used to think it was bad when liberals flapped their jaws. This creepy, silent loyalty while selling out everything they pretended they cared about stuff is worse.

  107. And fiscal responsibility was not my motivation for voting for Romney, nor have I ever claimed that it was. Again, you expose your utter cluelessness.

  108. “Poor Huck. Guy only has insipid Lurker and fantasy foolman to engage. Must feel like one of those dreams where you can’t scream.”

    Its the same on my Facebook, which is full of liberal college students and graduates. Not a peep about our unilateral cowboy preparing to bomb a country to try and salvage his ego.

  109. “There is also more proof now revealing the Rmoney camp was responsible for the Benghazi fiasco in an effort to derail Obama’s reelection”

    Finally Poolman posts a conspiracy theory right up my alley! LOL what I wouldn’t give to see proof of that.

  110. Huck I think you relish the catch-22 that Obama finds himself in.

    Clearly you can only fault him for drawing the red line in the first place. Once that folly was made there is NO solution. If he does nothing he’s a coward or a fool. If he does something he’s a cowboy. It’s a no-win.

  111. You boys have your panties in a knot over possible war in Syria yet you mocked my support of Ron Paul’s foreign policy which is the best one.

    It’s called mind your own fucking business ALL THE TIME.

  112. “Clearly you can only fault him for drawing the red line in the first place.”

    Yes. It’s clear because I said it.

    Obama is dragging us into a war in order to save his ego due to a single comment he made while going off-teleprompter.

    And yes I do relish rubbing your nose into the shit Obama is getting us into. Why shouldn’t I? After all, it’s because of you we’re in this mess.

    Remember “get over it”? Pfft….

    “You boys have your panties in a knot over possible war in Syria yet you mocked my support of Ron Paul’s foreign policy which is the best one.”

    I didn’t.

  113. So now the only 2 Obama supporters here are both on record as saying they think we should mind our own business, but both refuse to comment on what should happen to Obama if we don’t.

    Rutherford…if Obama orders strikes against Syria without congressional or UNSC authorization, should he be impeached?

    That question is actually the topic of the article you posted.

  114. I like Hucks 164…there is a question that would cause me to answer the poll. In fact I’ll do so now. If President Obama orders strikes on Syria he should indeed be impeached.

    I know I’ve mentioned it a number of times before but W.R. Mead’s foreign policy “schools” are an excellent lens to look through.One of the “schools”,the Wilsonians is being shown full blown right now.

    I have to disagree with Huck that this dismal scene before us all is rooted (solely or otherwise) in Obama’s ego. I think folks are forgetting the cadre Obama has around him,folks like Susan Rice, a primary cheerleader of R2P.
    The only Catch 22 going on here is because of arrogance more than ego. Arrogance of the elites who readily align under the Wilsonian flag.

  115. Some questions that I am sure will be treated as hypothetical…but are very real…

    What is the objective of potential strikes against Syria. Obama says the objective is not regime change. And we won’t be targeting the chem stuff, so destroying that won’t be the objective. So now that we know what the objective aren’t…does anyone know what they are?

    What’s the end-game? Since we aren’t going after the regime or the weapons, what happens if the regime uses the weapons again? And again? And again?

    Remember when Bush was criticized for not having the answers to those types of questions before he went to war? So how about it, Obama supporters. Has Obama For America sent you any emails with talking points on how to get in our faces and tell us the truth about Obama’s War? The media forgot to ask him today. Maybe you guys have the answer.

  116. @ Rutherford 158…Hell no!
    Extremes at either end of the spectrum are equally inane. The reflective pause upon Ron Paul or assumptions of what a President Romney would be doing or resurrecting anti-Bush rhetoric is blatant and cheap deflection of what is happening NOW,what is REAL.

  117. I say its ego because had Obama not gone off-teleprompter and issued his Red Line threat, he could have taken the outs that have been presented to him.

    He could have used the UNSC as an excuse. He could have gone to congress and risked them saying no. He could even use the lack of partners to say “America can’t shoulder the burden of policing the world by our self.”

    But he can’t now. His threat a year ago and his war drumming all week obligate him to kill just enough people to show the world he isn’t a punk bitch. That’s ego.

  118. Although we’re agreed upon Obama being the bigger problem here I really have a hard time just going the ego route. This is a conditioned response for him and his handlers. His condition got worse over the years.

  119. “Arrogance of the elites who readily align under the Wilsonian flag.”

    Yo…Alfie….What so Wilsonian about lobbing cruise missiles with an objective NOT to do real harm to a dictatorship?

    What’s so Wilsonian about doing this with out the League of Nat…errr…UN?

    What’s so Wilsonian about refusing to call a coup a coup in Egypt?

    I’m not saying Obama should be Wilsonian….I’m saying either the Dead Rabbit is using the term wrong or you are.

  120. “Although we’re agreed upon Obama being the bigger problem here I really have a hard time just going the ego route. ” -Alfie

    I agree to some extent. It’s not just personal ego….it is personal insecurity due to the decline of American influence because of failed foreign policy. America isn’t feared and we live in a nasty world where we need to be.

    There has been a serious of absolute shocking foreign policy-strategy blunders.

    For God’s sake we could have very well been attacked at Benghazi with our own weapons!!!! And this already happened once on our own border!

    The world watches Obama domestically squirm and lie in response to his endless blunders….and they laugh. I mean….a youtube movie?

    Libya….feudalism/anarchy…weapons pouring into Mali and Sinai.
    Russia purposely embarrasses us.
    Afghanistan…going nowhere

    Dude was so naive he thought the Muslim Brotherhood was worth moving all his chips to the middle of the table.

  121. Wow…just watched Jay Carney dismiss any official role of Congress, only ambiguously claiming select, mysterious Congressmen are in the loop (he refused to say who). After 50 minutes of this….going round and round….he all of sudden gets this angry look on his face and starts yelling about Congress only has two duties…”pay its bills and vote on a budget”. ONLY two duties.


    Wanton disregard of Congress. Not even pretending to care. Or make a case of an imminent threat. Nothing.

  122. What street is that?

    The Muslim Brotherhood was created by Hassan al-Banna 85 years ago.

    You gonna tell us Calvin Coolidge created the Ikhwan?

  123. Yup poolman…President Coolidge did it in 1928….I mean….he had such a known love for quasi Islamic labor movements in Egypt. You know your history dude.

  124. Be honest Huck…you had to look it up to see if it was Hoover, Harding or Coolidge as president when the Muslim Bro’s formed.

  125. Oh, you mean the ORIGINAL Muslim Brotherhood. That’s like the original Sears and Roebuck, Wells Fargo, or the original Hostess Twinkies.

  126. It’s kind of like this whole country. Bought out from under us. Don’t you feel like the place is in distress? I know, it was all the shenanigans…

  127. Oh my bad….you were talking about the new one…..you know….the one made up of hundreds of thousands of people in several countries. These people were actually American built T-1000 Terminator Droids which, after assembly in a Wixom, Michigan plant were whisked away to a Pakistani madrassa and interfaced with conservative Islamic software. Damn….man….you’ve been studying.

  128. If only Saddam Gaddafi Assad would have bowed to the world bank, then none of his people would need to be brutally punished.

  129. Yeah, but there are some latent Chinese components in the circuitry. I wouldn’t make any wagers this early in the game.

  130. “Be honest Huck…you had to look it up to see if it was Hoover, Harding or Coolidge as president when the Muslim Bro’s formed.”

    Look, a squirrel!

    And…Bush something something…..

  131. Guys, the libs are quiet because they don’t care. They honestly don’t care. They’ll come out to defend Obama no matter what he does.

    It truly is a twisted cult-like mentality. All that matters is what the criticism sound like.

    Hey Lurker — got anything for us??????

    Rutherford the latent Paul supporter????



  132. Huck, to the contrary, his ego won’t let him. Obama ain’t gonna bomb. He’ll deflect and blame. Alfie’s right. It’s the shit-talking, do-nothing pattern that defines him and got him into this mess.

    More Halcion Mr. Rutherford?

  133. Personal insecurity and utter ineptness that is being read as vulnerable and actionable by Putin. We’re royally screwed if the Chinese decide to be antagonists in the Pacific Rim.
    As for Putin he has upped the pressure ante on Obama and is clearly looking to paint the USA as punks.

  134. Tigre……I was so curious about what liberals have to say about Syria that I listened to talk radio where they have to…uh….talk.

    Stephenie Miller (which I suspect Rutherford might really be in to).

    The show (often times using sarcastic sound bites and morning zoo attempts at comedy) mocked anyone comparing Iraq to Syria. As if it’s outrageous to do so.

    They constantly reminded us that Obama is “talking” to Congress and could care less about the UN.

    For instance…..on Benghazi…..they don’t make any points…they make fun of someone with a rural accent saying the word “Benghazi”. Over and over again. That’s their defense of Benghazi.

    Same with Obamacare. Play a sound bite of someone with a southern accent say the word “Obamacare” followed by a generalized complaint. laugh. Cue it up again. Repeat.

    Take in mind I listened for more then an hour.

    I have never heard anything with less substance in my life.

  135. @ dead rabbit regards Wilsonians.
    The schools derive their names for broad brush reasons and I’m possibly doing a disservice simplifying them as follows. Hamiltonian (trade),Jacksonian (big stick pro sovereignty),Jeffersonian (diplomacy with internal focus) & Wilsonian.(diplomacy external focus)
    So what is Wilsonian with Obama is: his belief he and his know better arrogance more than ego. Views of other nations more important than his Constitutional constraints. Global harmony being achievable and something to be actively attained.
    Liberals tend to be Wilsonians the irony of this is that this doesn’t in any way mean a lack of war,violence,repression and death.

    For all the schools its not so much the actions but the reasons and this is about policy. It is also important to note that the schools apply before and after the era of the names and that there are overlaps. (ex. The Boxer Rebellion: Hamiltonians wanting to protect trade routes,Wilsonians upset about missionaries Jacksonians pissed that Americans threatened)
    Woodrow thought it a good idea to get involved in a European civil war for the sake of advancing “democracy” where there wasn’t any. This is what we saw in Libya and now Syria. Syria is also the nation that was often put forward as a prime R2P target but the sheer size of the problem prevented that. R2P’ers have been in the wings salivating since Rwanda and Sbrenica. this isn’t an Obama thing.

  136. I too have noticed an intense reticence from liberals in my real world dealings.
    Eye rolls since Libya in many circles. I am flummoxed by how highly educated and articulate folks in my personal circles are either silent or still Bush blamers when it comes to current events.
    I have to confess I am enjoying the hell out of watching the same folks squirm and seethe regards ObamaCare though. It is for them the shit soufflé they so badly wanted and now that they are being forced to eat it they find it unpalatable. Im Lovin’ it!

  137. Responsibility To Protect: This is an insane sovereignty squashing policy that rails against the “moral outrage” of others leaders and policies. (sorry my bias is showing)
    Examples: We should’ve responded with force in Rwanda
    The Sudan crisis should’ve been stopped with force if necessary.
    Syria should not be allowed to conduct a civil war especially if it uses weapons we find yucky
    (again apologies for my bias shining through)

  138. Looks like the tools from the UN have given president warmonger a green light to murder more Syrian civilians in the name of punishing Assad. Talk about your biblical proportions! It won’t be long now.

  139. @ Huck you’re not wrong and clearly the credible case has been laid forth many times as to how much of a narcissist Obama is. That said his arrogance in this matter isn’t so personal. He isn’t willing/wanting to blow stuff up and kill folks simply out of a prideful egotistical thing. He to a lesser extent and his handlers greatly truly believe in achieving greatness and having done something of historical worth. They have failed.

  140. ET it does appear he is going to let Congress vote for authorization but since that might not be available until the 9th he could still act.
    I find it bizarre and bordering on criminal that we are allowing folks in Syria to live in fear of cruise missiles until we get around to launching them. Serious that is whacked.
    I also find it disturbing people believe/picture Syria to be in shambles. Although there is indeed a refuge crisis afoot (one we’re not really helping for sure) the fact hat people are going about daily business every day is something to wrap our heads around.

  141. “I showed you the link that says he wants to do just enough to avoid being mocked.”

    (can’t find your link so found my own)

    “One U.S. official who has been briefed on the options on Syria said he believed the White House would seek a level of intensity “just muscular enough not to get mocked” but not so devastating that it would prompt a response from Syrian allies Iran and Russia.

    “They are looking at what is just enough to mean something, just enough to be more than symbolic,” he said.


    “An unknown official” believes”” is his opinion; does not make it a fact nor does it mean this is what Obama thinks.

    “They are looking at what is just enough to mean something, just enough to be more than symbolic,” the U.S. official reportedly told the Times.

    The official added the White House was probing a strike with a level of intensity “just muscular enough not to get mocked.”

    A bit of pick and choose to make it say what you want it to say, eh?


    “Bush might have been wrong, but his intentions were sincere.”

    “Bush fucked up, but he had a reason for fucking up and, contrary to what you claim here…those reasons weren’t about himself.”

    Please tell me you were CUI-ing when you wrote these.

    “those reasons weren’t about himself.” Really?

    I am sure it will bring great comfort to those whose lives were affected by his being “sincere” and had his “reason”.

    And you think I’m an asshole!

  142. JAL I don’t think you’re a ‘hole but man you are getting your crazy on with that last one.
    I don’t have the impression you would’ve been found to be so kind to the Bush Administration,officials and other sources whence entities such as LAT or NYT wrote articles such as the one you linked.

  143. “And you think I’m an asshole!”

    I don’t think you’re an asshole…just a hypocrite and a coward who won’t admit mistakes by your politician or yourself. I’ve done both multiple times. You’ve refused to do so multiple times. Maybe you think that makes you an asshole, but just because that’s your opinion doesn’t not make it fact or what I think.

    “I am sure it will bring great comfort to those whose lives were affected by his being “sincere” and had his “reason”.”

    Stay focused. We’re talking about motivations (cause), not affect.


    Yes, really. Feel free to produce something to the contrary. You won’t because you can’t…because its bullshit. And you know it.

    “Please tell me you were CUI-ing when you wrote these.”

    No idea what that means.

    “A bit of pick and choose to make it say what you want it to say, eh?”

    Yes. A bit of pick and choose (read: nuance…remember it?) reported in multiple articles. And yet, you can’t produce even 1 to support your claim about Bush.

    “his opinion; does not make it a fact nor does it mean this is what Obama thinks.”

    Store this one for future debate, guys. It’s a keeper that will come in handy.

    So…can you show us any links that have “unknown officials” giving their “nuanced” “opinion” that Bush took us to war to make himself look good?

    You’ve made the claim. Now show us it’s more than your unofficial (read: worthless) opinion.

  144. this is the first time i visited since my last comment. I wrote he should be impeached a few days after Benghazi,. Impeach his white half so it isn’t racist.

  145. @ 207 James that’s funny on two levels. One it just was. Two for some reason my brain went haywire and recalled the various Crayola issues including using peach for coloring people like me. :))

  146. Regards some of the chatter regards liberals stepping up on the Syria thing. Danzinger toon of 8/27 SCATHING on Kerry.

  147. IMO Obama did a fair to good job spinning his situation. I also have to say Putin has completely smacked the USA down a few notches. His statement that “evidence not shown is no evidence” will play oh so we’ll in so many locales.

  148. This was the least painful out to Obama’s major fuck up. Tigre, how bout Dogfish 90 Minute IPA. Problem is it only comes in a 4 Pack.

  149. Looked and sounded like more of the same to me. His strategy?

    JAL and Rutherford should be pissed that he’s expressed the desire for a strike.

    I am pissed that he’s deferred on a situation that’s been brewing this long and seems to think broadcasting his intentions weeks before carrying through, all shrouded with more worthless non-committal rhetoric is deemed sufficient. Congress could’ve been sought long before his internal polling told him what he needs to do to avoid criticism.

  150. Jeff Flake’s voice mail is full, so he got an email and his phone answerer got the message for him. McCain got a voice message and a email. Not that it makes any difference, but they need to hear it loud and clear. NO WAR, NO BOMBS, NO TROOPS in Syria!!! It isn’t in our best interest. It isn’t American or Constitutionally compliant. The consequences of our unconstitutional actions are mounting. Justice will prevail. Would that the ground open up and swallow a few psychopaths.

  151. On a note similar to what some have said here, could someone please tell me when it became ok to publicly discuss ANY military plans against any nation?

    “We’re going to bomb you.” WTF?

  152. “We’re going to bomb you.”

    I don’t think public discussion of this is all that rare or new.

    Now if you were talking about specific targets, they yeah.

    But seems to me the alternative to “We’re going to bomb you” is Pearl Harbor type stuff.

  153. “But seems to me the alternative to “We’re going to bomb you” is Pearl Harbor type stuff.”

    Exactly my point and exactly what we should do if we do anything at all. Say nothing and surprise the shit out of them.

  154. R, this is all supposed to be some kind of symbolic gesture. One that’s symbolism has no meaning because it has no meaningful effect by design.

    The reason Alfie and DR were going around was because the latest WRM chapters on Clintonian policy didn’t make it into Special Providence before it got published. 🙄 This is lame.

    If Obama has the authority to initiate a strike without going to Congress, it’s the “right thing to do,” and he might do it regardless of what Congress says, it all kind of begs a question, don’t you think?

    I Obama would stick to inflaming racial tension and exploiting domestic social divide for political gain. The tallest midget in the room is in over his head.

  155. It is not only Americans who will challenge the new American foreign policy. Will Russia and Iran respond to Obama’s conciliatory approach with reciprocal concessions — or, emboldened by what they interpret as American weakness and faltering willpower, will they keep pushing forward? Will the president’s outreach to the moderate majority of Muslims around the world open an era of better understanding, or will the violent minority launch new attacks that undercut the president’s standing at home? Will the president’s inability to deliver all the Israeli concessions Arabs would like erode his credibility and contribute to even deeper levels of cynicism and alienation across the Middle East? Can the president execute an orderly reduction in the U.S. military stake in Iraq and Afghanistan without having hostile forces fill the power vacuum? Will Venezuelan leader Hugo Chávez be so impressed with American restraint under Obama that he moderates his own course and ceases to make anti Yanquismo a pillar of his domestic and international policy? Will other countries heed the president’s call to assume more international responsibility as the United States reduces its commitments — or will they fail to fulfill their obligations as stakeholders in the international system?

    A Jeffersonian policy of restraint and withdrawal requires cooperation from many other countries, but the prospect of a lower American profile may make others less, rather than more, willing to help the United States.

    That’s Mr Mead in 2010 in a piece titled The Carter Syndrome. In all he presented a pretty favorable take on Obama but also showed exactly the pit that Obama did indeed fall into.

  156. And then I read R’s tweets. . . and I weep.

    Obama himself said he didn’t need Congressional approval. Now when he doesn’t get it, which is probable as he knows, what has he done with his authority and self-professed responsibility exactly?

  157. You mean Mead thinks we wont be rewarded by good behavior through appeasement and capitulation? But Obama’s like the most popular kid in school. Like everyone wants to be his friend. 🙄

  158. John Kerry (potentially) screwed up today when he was getting grilled by Chris Wallace.

    When talking about Obama’s request to congress for military action against Syria, Kerry said “he [Obama] is not trying to create an imperial presidency.”

    If congress ends up opposing this, and Obama does it anyway, Kerry’s words are going to feed the inevitable claims that it is exactly what he is doing.

    Regardless of what congress decides, I think asking the was the right thing to do. The 1 thing I disagree with is the waiting. I think they should be called back immediately.

  159. IMHO the whole situation is rife with absurdity. Obama attacks (an act of war) and he’s a candidate for impeachment. Obama seeks congressional approval (the right course no?) and he’s wishy washy and abdicating authority.

    But the best part is this idiotic statement from Washington: “The President has decided to take military action.”

    No, no he hasn’t. He’s decided to seek congressional approval for military action. Two very different things.

    Boys and girls our troubles go waaaay deeper than Obama. We are truly a nation of idiots.

  160. “If Congress says no Obama won’t do squat.”

    I think that would be the correct course of action.

    “We are truly a nation of idiots.”

    As proven in Nov. 2012.

  161. @#229 – that is excellent.

    There is one thing that Obama is great at. Stirring up shit.

    No congressional Republican should have opened their mouths about our response to the use of chemical weapons in Syria and just answered every question with “we are waiting on the president.” React to nothing Obama or that creepy ass cracka Biden say and never stray from “No comment.” Never give an opinion on what we should do and on the talk shows just talk about how the president is just heightening tensions and substituting drama for action. It’s how he operates.

    In fact, “Operation Stir It Up.”

  162. @#233 – Rutherford Obama needed to have his war of words first. The advance criticism of his chosen course of action either way is part of his gameplay.

  163. Not part of his gmaeplay – IS his gameplay. He has no idea what to do so he has no goal beyond baiting and playing off of his political opponents.

  164. “As proven in Nov. 2012”

    Yup the proof being that Americans were forced to choose the lesser of two evils.

    A nation of idiots produces poor choices for its leaders. “I want to lead our country for three reasons but I can’t remember the third reason. Wups.” That’s what this idiot country produces for candidates.

    It’s pathetic.

  165. Oh please. Surely you can come up with something with more teeth than a gaffe.

    BTW, there aren’t too many matchups where Obama is the lesser of two evils except in your mind. 😉

  166. Obama is the perfect president for a people half of whom don’t care what he does as president, they just want him to be president.

    That’s life in the abstract.

  167. I crack up every time Rutherford blames the GOP for the re-election of Barack Obama, as if to suggest he would have EVER entertained the thought of voting against him.

    He loves flip-flopping from “I had no other choice” to “get over it”.


    Boy, that Obama sure is cool, isn’t he? Putting his feet up on antique furniture as if he owns the place. Working without his suit jacket and whipping out his finger pistol. The only things missing are the rolled up shirt sleeves and top button undone.

    The whole scene is so ridiculous, even the idiot Joe Biden has to hide his laughter with his hand while the cameras are in the room.

  168. “I want to lead our country for three reasons but I can’t remember the third reason. Wups.” That’s what this idiot country produces for candidates. ”

    “…all 57 states” and “…East Coast ports in the Gulf” is what an idiot country produces for leaders. That’s on you, champ.

  169. There is some truth to what Muffy says. No man should be elected POTUS as a symbol of progress. The progress should be secondary to electing the right man.

    But Huck I’m sorry dude. Mitt was no alternative and I dare say he’d be a laughing stock in this Syria crisis. He proved on the campaign trail he had zero instinct for foreign affairs or diplomacy.

  170. And in 5 years what instinct has Obama shown for foreign affairs and diplomacy?

    You’re comparing speculation with fact. And the fact is….Barack Obama doesn’t know jack shit about foreign affairs and diplomacy, and has spent his entire presidency getting punked in both areas.

    You can “dare say” (read: guess) whatever you want about Mitt Romney. Barack Obama’s failures should speak for themselves (but of course they don’t, that’s why we remind you).

  171. I can just imagine what Barack the Badass is saying in that picture. I think this calls for a caption game.

    “You tell that motherfucker Bashar that his punishment is not time sensitive!”

    “So 1,400 people were killed? What difference, at this point, does it make?”

    “I’ve told you a thousand times…Assad was pissed off over a YouTube video!”

    Aaaaaand go….

  172. You are correct, though, Rutherford. There were poor choices in 2012.

    That you think Obama was the better one is where you go wildly off course. You picked a guy PROVEN to suck over a guy who MIGHT have sucked.

  173. “Can we make an early New Years resolution? No more John McCain on talk shows as some foreign policy expert. ”

    I agree.

    While we’re at it, let’s include Hillary Clinton, John Kerry and Susan Rice…all proven liars and utter failures in foreign policy.

  174. Rutherford know I am saying this with no ill will. In fact this whole exchange would be entirely different in person but sie la keyboard.
    Obama has all ready taken military action via his CinC role. He has moved assets and more than telegraphed his intent. Although this falls well short of actually weapons launch it cannot be underestimated that Obama has indeed set a course in motion military wise and no matter what happens next will have rescissions.
    Obviously I am having a hard time wrapping my head around the anti-Mitt stuff in these recent threads. He lost folks much to my chagrin and I dare the say the worlds and that is it. He doesn’t enter into the equation now. Conjecture and theory is fun but in this case not real.
    It also must be said that the issues we find ourselves in have as much to do with 2009 through 2011 as anything. Contrary to Lurkers luke warm assertions anything before is equally discounted (read Bush) as anything Romney in nature. Obama was afforded a clean slate and HE made choices. HE FAILED.

  175. Go Huck!
    As for what Obama will do if Congress says no….. I don’t think it’s a lock they do. I also think a lot can happen in 7 days

  176. Caption contest entry:

    Damn I think I pulled a hammy on that slip n’ slide. Shh Joe he picked up – uh, yes, Hello Mr. Prime Minister. Uh, do you, uh, do you have Prince Albert in a can? Uh no this ain’t Barack.

  177. “Yes hello, can you send up a skinny latte and two white wine spritzers? Put a curly straw in Joe’s. And how about some cucumber sandwiches and a couple of grape popsicles.”

  178. “As for what Obama will do if Congress says no….. I don’t think it’s a lock they do. I also think a lot can happen in 7 days”

    I’m not making any predictions either way except that I think it will be a close vote.

    Nice, Muffy.

  179. “IMHO the whole situation is rife with absurdity. Obama attacks (an act of war) and he’s a candidate for impeachment. Obama seeks congressional approval (the right course no?) and he’s wishy washy and abdicating authority.”

    You know, this (repeated) statement only goes to prove my point, i.e. it’s all about shielding Obama from criticism no matter his choice. Libs are incapable of anything else.

    R, for the love of God, Obama himself said he’s abdicating his authority by seeking congressional approval. What’s the matter with you? It’s not a perception; according to Obama it’s a truism.

    What the fuck does your opinion of Romney have to do with what Obama’s actually doing/done? Actually, why don’t you vote for Paul Mr. convictions?

    Can we please get back to addressing the epidemic of white on black crime plaguing our nation. This Syria shit is a distraction from all that is great about Obama — whatever it is.

    (oh yeah, he’s black)

  180. “Just saw it as a remake of MM. I wish I hadn’t heard the original. This one is “sticky.” I like it.”

    I thought the same thing. I have a theory Blue Grass covers make a song either 10 times better or 10 times worse.

  181. There’s only one thing I can say about Rutherford continually calling Mitt Romney a weak candidate, a buffoon on diplomacy and foreign affairs, etc…

    He has to completely ignore Romney’s personal record of success which is undeniable to anyone of fair mind.

    Rutherford is a fine blog host, a pretty good writer and a damn tolerant individual for putting up with my mouth. I’ll even give him a bit of credit for finally admitting he recognizes Obama not terribly competent, though when pushed he’ll still make a weak attempt to defend Obama. That has to be painful to admit.

    However, I don’t think Rutherford would be my first choice here investing for me, counseling me or defending me if in trouble.

    When you’re left with nothing but speculation, wishful thinking and hypotheticals while criticizing opponents, it must not be credibility your seeking.

  182. “While we’re at it, let’s include Hillary Clinton, John Kerry and Susan Rice…all proven liars and utter failures in foreign policy.”

    Well Susan Rice is living proof that Hillary avoids the Sunday morning shows. 🙂

  183. “Obama was afforded a clean slate and HE made choices. HE FAILED.”

    Well yes and no. Clearly he had a chance to really re-write the Playbook and he did not. All of Washington’s ills remain. Again I point you to Mark Leibovich’s new book “This Town” which is next on my reading list.

    But let’s not simply ignore that Obama didn’t start with a robust USA on the rise. Regardless of whose fault it was Obama DID inherit a lousy economy, billions in war debt and an incompetent and corrupt Wall Street. That’s hardly a clean slate.

  184. “You know, this (repeated) statement only goes to prove my point, i.e. it’s all about shielding Obama from criticism no matter his choice. Libs are incapable of anything else. ”

    No it’s all about criticizing him no matter what he does. But of course that depends on ones perspective.

    Tigre can we at least agree that drawing the red line was a major FAIL.

  185. Tex while I will concede WWMD (what would Mitt do) is pretty irrelevant at this point, you can’t say his history of business success in any prepared him for this Syria fiasco.

    I might add I only brought up Mitt in the first place in answer to Huck’s assertion that Obama’s reelection was an example of American idiocy.

  186. We both already said so.

    Yes. He’s damned if does, damned if he doesn’t. We all know that.

    It’s the progression of the discussion that becomes so annoying. It’s like the defense of Obama is all there is to you and Lurker. Nothing more. I assure you if it were a republican stuck in this position, the conservatives here wouldn’t hesitate to dispense shit. I think you libs are loathe to when it comes to Obama for the shallowest of reasons.

    Can we both agree that abdicating the decision to congress is what Obama himself declared instead of acting like it’s some unfair opinion?

  187. Abdicating is a loaded word which Obama clearly never used. Peter King did.

    However it is ridiculous to say Obama decided to take military action. Clearly he didn’t and that was really my point in the first place that the media tosses around asinine statements as if no one is really paying attention.

  188. The clean slate I spoke of was tied to foreign policy,as in context with the thread discussion. Your reply has a domestic policy focus.
    On the domestic policy side let the record show he failed there too. Clearly the Stimulus and ACA were bullets to the head of the economy regardless of what partisan flaks from either end of the spectrum say.
    Back to FP though. From Nobel holding new guy with big promises that played well in many corners (globally) he pulled a 180 thus instantly shooting himself in the foot.
    He had opportunity to open doors fresh and new in Europe,Russia,Latin America and Asia. He failed miserably in all corners. He had ever varying encounters with EU nation heads. He showed Moscow his belly,ignored Latin America except where he pissed on a couple of our actual allies regards trade agreements,Asia he did indeed get around to attaching himself to the Pacific Pivot but I don’t know if he’s done it well. We can talk about the ME/Arab St. which in total =fail hell though I’ll throw him a tiny bone and say it wasn’t entirely his fault. Africa he has actually only ramped up the militarization.
    Seriously R this isn’t all about me hating on the guy as a person or even the POTUS. I hate his entire Administration regards foreign policy. The US is worse off and I dare say the world is too.

  189. Rutherford call it nuance,semantics whatever but in truth Obama did indeed decide on military action and was pretty clear on it. Now he’s just trying cover his ass,tracks or make it right depending on ones position.

  190. As I said before, Obama says (1) he has determined that a military strike is essential, (2) he has the determined he can go it alone, and (3) he will submit the determination for Congressional approval anyway.

    There’s another word for that, It starts an “AB” and the rest rhymes with “dictation.”

    Obama submits the request for Congressional approval of a military strike to congress, and you claim that is “ridiculous” to say Obama decided to take military action? 🙄

    For Pete’s sake. He came out made a speech to convey his decision (on a Football Saturday no less). What has he decided other than to delay and cover his ass? There’s only one other option to load the bases, R. I’m mouthing the words. . .

  191. Lefty commentators are going ga-ga today over the “unprecedented” move of Obama walking back the “imperial presidency” “power grab“.

    No shit.

    It’s as if the only time the left ever acknowledged that Barack Obama was a power grabbing imperial president was the one time he backed away from being one.

    Oh wait…that’s EXACTLY what it is….

  192. Tex while I will concede WWMD (what would Mitt do) is pretty irrelevant at this point, you can’t say his history of business success in any prepared him for this Syria fiasco.

    I can say that with a whole lot more validity than you can say, “Mitt was no alternative and I dare say he’d be a laughing stock in this Syria crisis. He proved on the campaign trail he had zero instinct for foreign affairs or diplomacy.

    Mitt Romney has certainly shown far better instincts than Barack Obama ever has. Have we forgotten men like you were naive enough to think Barack’s charisma would make the world a better place?

    The one whose instincts I really question are yours….

  193. “Extraordinary: Mathematically Gifted President Comprehends What ‘66% Oppose’ Means”

    😆 I’m beyond the point of caring anymore other than to make sure that history records the gross ineptness of Obama correctly, that I had to chuckle at that.

  194. It still remains to be seen if Obama can surpass Jimmy Cater as worst Ex-President. Something tells me, unlike Clinton, that Obama is not going to be fawned over come 2016…and will happily duck out of the limelight for a long time.

    His ego should be sufficiently bruised by then.

  195. I think Obama’s hypocrisy has gotten to the point of being so stunning, that even his most ardent supporters have to have some serious doubts if Obama isn’t entirely out of his league.

    Like VDH says of Obama, “Trying to discern any consistency or pattern in such an undisciplined mind is a futile exercise: what Obama says or does at any given moment usually is antithetical to what he said or did on a prior occasion.”

  196. Carter has actually done some really great things since leaving the office, but I guess that doesn’t count. I read a recent interview with Assad in VT. Probably can’t find it in the bs ms media. I never had an opinion about him one way or the other. Recently, I’m really warming up to the guy. I think he’s more sincere than what I hear from our leaders, many of whom have proven themselves lying tools of the corporate state.


    It seems plenty of our military are speaking out about this and don’t think they want to fight on the side of al Qaeda. All over FB trending. “Just following orders” isn’t honorable or moral. It was not acceptable at Nuremberg, though we are in a lot deeper shit this go round.

  197. That anti-Semite meme gets more mileage than the racist one. How about this? We’re all humans, some tend toward evil and some tend toward good, no matter ethnicity or skin color. Calling out bad players should not make one either racist or anti-Semite. Since you tend to support the dominant world system, which is against the law of Christ, where does that place you in the mix?

  198. Further… Muslims accept Jesus as a prophet. Jews reject Jesus, and in the Babylonian Talmud claim he is being punished eternally by boiling in a cauldron of excrement.

    The facts are clear. The Talmud, which is the highest authority of Judaism, not only makes hateful and pornographic attacks against Jesus Christ, it even boasts that the Jewish community, not the Romans, arrested, tried and executed Jesus. In fact, the Talmud exudes so much hatred against Jesus that it claims the Jewish priests subjected his body to a series of four different torturous executions.

    It is not anti-Semitic to state these facts, it is simply the truth. It is not anti-Semitic to expose Jewish extremism and hatred, again, it is simply the truth. Why is it that radical Christians or Muslims are freely exposed in the mass media, but Jewish extremism is a forbidden subject? Why is it that when a political figure exposes racial or religious hatred among Christians or Muslims, he wins media praise and “humanitarian awards,” but if a political figure dares to expose Jewish hatred and extremism, he himself is called a hater and anti-Semite?

    Jesus is a threat to Judaism and has been for two thousand years. But you obviously don’t get that. Maybe a refresher in the New Testament will enlighten you, or not, as your notions solid as granite. Some people learn, while others merely regurgitate. Western media isn’t highlighting the genocide and flight of the Christians in Syria by these rebel terrorists, as with the rest of the ME, because, well, why would we continue to support that?

  199. Poolman You can’t come into the bar and claim Islam is somehow more conducive to Christian principles than Judaism and your screed above just provides fodder for those that label you a Jew hater.
    I swear the years spent here have really fostered a hatred of organized religion and its adherents.

  200. 284 should really come with a link or citation as well. If for no other reason to help the host not be party to infringement.

  201. In context of the thread the conduct and deeds of Jimmy Carter out of the Oval has nothing I repeat-NOTHING to do with the just condemnation of his tenure nor does it alter his place in the books as well regards quality of POTUS.

  202. My point is that if you are asking for a link or citation (which I have provided in times past) to the statement in 284, you obviously have not delved into the Talmud, or at least not at any length.

    Interesting you bring up the Book of Mormon. Is that your heritage?

  203. Jesus is a threat to Judaism and has been for two thousand years.

    That’s a pretty twisted account of history, being all but two books of the New Testament written by Jews, Poolman, the other two written by a Greek who accompanied the author of most of the New Testament.

  204. What’s even more twisted, Poolman, is that as we speak, across the Middle East, Christians are being targeted by those of the Islamic faith in Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, Iran, Iraq – so far as they marched nuns around in Egypt, beheaded Coptic Christians, marked Christian Churches with red graffiti to be razed, etc…

    I don’t see that persecution of Christians in Israel.

  205. Written by Jews, you say? Maybe you should define whether we are talking ancestry or ideology. I think you’re confused.

    As for your twisted statement, who is arming those killers?

  206. Poolman, you’re really just party to the same Jew hating, whether it Nazi Germany, Communist Russia, or Islamic Hezbollah. It’s existed for at least 3,400 years.

    I have no doubt in my mind you would find it wonderfully delicious if Israeli Jews, Zionists if you will, were being murdered by the busload, no matter who was doing the killing. I don’t even read of a bit of sympathy you have for Israeli children’s schoolyards being hit with rocket fire.

    It’s a completely irrational form of paranoia and hatred you carry – but it cut from the same supernatural cause and cloth as those extremists like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad represent.

    I am a Christian. And I still believe those verses from Genesis 12. If you were wise, you would do the same. I suppose my prayer for you is for your eyes to be opened. But I would be lying if I said I was hopeful.

  207. I do believe the verses in Genesis. The difference is how you understand them. The seed of Abram is Jesus. That is the blessing and the curse and always has been.

  208. Israel is the spiritual people of God. Always was and always will be. It was never meant a land mass or a physical entity. If you know anything of the life of Jacob/Israel, you would understand his was a story of struggle between the physical and spiritual, the natural and the supernatural, thus the two opposing entities and constant pulls in both directions on his life’s journey.

    The deception his story reveals is prevalent and very relevant, even today.

  209. Well this threat went to shit. Got any new posts working, Rutherford?

    Guess it depends upon tastes, doesn’t it?

    How many ways can we call Lurker a fraud, Rutherford selective, not credible and disingenuous, and Obama a charlatan, coward and imbecile?

    I kind of though Lee Harvey Hitler’s diversion of reverting back to blaming Jews for everything that ails the world a nice distraction. 🙂

  210. The taboo topics: Religion and Jewry.

    So are you saying satan is also Jewish? That’s who I blame for the current state of affairs, at least tracing it back to the source. However, his minions really are derived out of all ethnicities. I don’t think any one is exclusive. He’s more of an equal opportunity god, using all of creation anytime for his schemes.

    Maybe we should talk about the recently revealed NSA leaks published in Wapo. It does position the CIA as the numero uno global agents behind the scenes. Their black budget makes the NSA look like small potatoes. I guess we really don’t have a complete picture, but the proof they run al Qaeda is there. Nice to know our taxes established and support al Qaeda. It also shows the influence Saudi Arabia has with us and al Qaeda. It’s pretty easy to see how this is self-perpetuating and in reality terrorism is not a threat to the state, but a product of the state.

    Stupid Americans. Stupid by design, if you research it. But then, research isn’t really our strong suit.

  211. The English are feeling the pinch in relation to recent events in Syria and have therefore raised their security level from “Miffed” to “Peeved.” Soon, though, security levels may be raised yet again to “Irritated” or even “A Bit Cross.” The English have not been “A Bit Cross” since the blitz in 1940 when tea supplies nearly ran out. Terrorists have been re-categorized from “Tiresome” to “A Bloody Nuisance.” The last time the British issued a “Bloody Nuisance” warning level was in 1588, when threatened by the Spanish Armada.

    The Scots have raised their threat level from “Pissed Off” to “Let’s get the Bastards.” They don’t have any other levels. This is the reason they have been used on the front line of the British army for the last 300 years.

    The French government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from “Run” to “Hide.” The only two higher levels in France are “Collaborate” and “Surrender.” The rise was precipitated by a recent fire that destroyed France ‘s white flag factory, effectively paralyzing the country’s military capability.

    Italy has increased the alert level from “Shout Loudly and Excitedly” to “Elaborate Military Posturing.” Two more levels remain: “Ineffective Combat Operations” and “Change Sides.”

    The Germans have increased their alert state from “Disdainful Arrogance” to “Dress in Uniform and Sing Marching Songs.” They also have two higher levels: “Invade a Neighbour” and “Lose.”

    Belgians, on the other hand, are all on holiday as usual; the only threat they are worried about is NATO pulling out of Brussels ..

    The Spanish are all excited to see their new submarines ready to deploy. These beautifully designed subs have glass bottoms so the new Spanish navy can get a really good look at the old Spanish navy.

    Australia, meanwhile, has raised its security level from “No worries” to “She’ll be right, Mate.” Two more escalation levels remain: “Crikey! I think we’ll need to cancel the barbie this weekend!” and “The barbie is cancelled.” So far no situation has ever warranted use of the last final escalation level.

  212. LOL I love the threat levels Tex.

    Tex I think you go wrong when you bring up Israeli children. When I looked at the Syrian children refugees one clear thing came through: the only innocents in these struggles are the kids.

    Children, Israeli, Palestinian, Syrian, Egyptian, and yes American all deserve our tears. None of them asked for the world that the adults around them are laying to waste.

  213. @ Rutherford in the spirit of your last comment. Have you noticed how the media apparently has its marching orders to hype the humanitarian horror show angle?
    I was really put off by the shameful and blatant stoking of war flames all in the name of ” for the children”. Headlines roar of the increased refugee movements but none that I saw pinned that tail on the donkey at 1600 Penn. My worry now is the spin is under way that this “great” disaster must be stopped and Assad must be attacked! For crying out loud the people are mostly running away from the fols we are supporting and US!

  214. Question to the group… Is the Israeli missile test a risky and provocative action? A shot across the bow of Syria, Russia and Iran reaffirming defense capabilities and overall will? A prudent test of defensive systems because they see some writing on the wall?

  215. Tex I think you go wrong when you bring up Israeli children. Children, Israeli, Palestinian, Syrian, Egyptian, and yes American all deserve our tears

    Wouldn’t that make me not wrong, but only half right?

    I don’t disagree, Rutherford. I would go further and say most are innocents, including most adults in all of those countries – simply pawns caught between the waring factions.

    It’s the nature of genocide and has been for thousands of years. The weak are trampled by the strong.

    So I guess you’ll agree with me then about man’s sinful nature? 🙂

  216. I don’t know, Alfie. It is a little out of character for Israel to make such a demonstrated action for the world to see. Even Israeli’s stern warnings, like buzzing Assad’s home a few years back, aren’t generally advertised and that one reported by foreign media.

    But my memory isn’t what it used to be. There may have been recent instances I can’t recall of Israel making demonstration.

  217. Chest beating. Posturing. Of course a missile test is significant. When Russia, Iran, N Korea, or China does it, we take note. Posturing is an animal trait we humans often practice as individuals and as a collective. Sometimes it’s a wizard of oz farce, other times a cautionary warning. When governments do it they anticipate a specific response. The responses are virtually simulated and updated with real time reactions. Nothing is happenstance.

  218. Dang, I hate that. Just when you think it safe to hit post it does that. Oh well, no biggie and probably only bothers me.

    Tex, isn’t it amazing what the past few years have uncovered? I think it has been this way for awhile but there seems to be more division in government this time around.

    Ben Swann breaks it down even more.

    The difference between these people and the administration is their methods.

  219. I listened to the debate over going to not-war vs not going to war. It sounded like the congressional version of Spinal Tap.

    I don’t understand what these (below) are supposed to be either (if the pic posts correctly). I know what they look like but what are they actually supposed to be?

  220. Kerry can’t rule out boots on the ground if the situation in Syria turns to shit and it looks like Assad is going to lose control of his weapons.

    But we’re going to arm his enemies and bomb him…..

  221. I still say we attack al-Nusrah Front at the same time we sting Assad. We are already at war with those guys anyways, are we not?

    Both these Islamic stink beards and their pseudo Nazi Ba’ath Party foes need yet another lesson that they need to fear America.

    Iran can’t be allowed to get a nuke. The Sunni Shitte split armed with nukes, the ultimate upshot if we fail, just can’t be allowed to happen. This gas attack, whether it was planned to be or not, has to be the ultimate litmus test for Iran on American resolve. Yet, Al Queda must also realize that we are not afraid of even occupying Syria if those murderous Sunni Mohammedans gain control of Damascus.

    Strike Assad hard, but attack the Islamists too.

    A message is, indeed, in order. However, the message needs to be only on American terms. Neither side can feel they played Obama’s dumb ass.

    Repeat. Attack Assad and attack the radical rebels at the same time.

    This is just more of the shitty situation we found ourselves in since 9-11. Wars and rumors of wars for a long time. It sucks…..but….it’s inevitable. The Shiite want nukes and the Sunni are too easily high jacked by people hell bent on slaughtering American women and children.

    Sooner or later we all have to admit the Crusades never ended and we are in a clash of civilizations.

  222. Yeah. Let’s ask for an appropriation but not know what, why or how much is needed. This is all the product of a complete lack of strategy and policy from Dear Leader who thinks only elections and avoidance.

    So if we bomb, what then?

    It’s actually funny to me watching Kerry twist around seeking approval and cash for military action without knowing for himself what the beginning or end point is. After all of the shit talking from him and this administration. . . 🙄

    Way to empower the thugs Obama.

  223. It’s an unmitigated disaster. Fucking Rutherford and his friends…..they sure have screwed shit up with their fan boy voting.

    Every now and then I get a surreal shiver over exactly how bad things have gotten since the Obama appology tour. And the morons who voted this unqualified wind bag into office won’t get it until we either have a regional war or ten dollar a gallon gas.

    Well……I guess anarchy in the Middle East makes the looming doom of the horrible CLUSTERFUCK that is Obamacare seem kind of small potatoes….despite being a big fucking deal and all.

    Rutherford’s guessing that Romney would have been worse cracks me up. For one, its hard to imagine a trajectory worse then this. Secondly, one silly comment on the Olympics……..who gives a shit? Romeny wasn’t perfect but he actually had gotten real shit done in real life. Real shit. Real life. I can’t believe this country was so dumb that they voted for a smooth talking bull shit artist to earn hipster points on Facebook and the right to plaster bumper stickers on grocery getters at Saturday morning soccer telling the world they aren’t racist.

    Yes you fools can…..

  224. What really cracks me up is how fast Rutherford went from “Get over it” to “Blame the GOP for Obama”

    Dude can’t even own his own vote anymore.

  225. I’m with Tigre, I watched as much of the debate today as I could and I’m still baffled over what the hell the objective is.

    What a fucked up situation. Obama is in over his head so we find ourselves in the position of fighting a tyrant we desperately can not allow to be defeated or our worst nightmare could come true…AL Queda armed with WMD.

    I can’t believe Lebenan hasn’t cracked yet. There are a ton of Suni refugees in there. Like millions! If Al Queda starts attacking the Shiites, Druze and or Christains in Lebanaon….holy shit!

    Are we literally watching the entire Middle East devolve into anarchy in front our eyes?

    With the destablization that comes with that many refugees, how can Lebanon not be next? Iraq is falling back into some nasty shit. Yet, Syrians are pouring in nonetheless.

    Bad. Bad. Bad.

  226. The objective is to “degrade and deter”…..but only to the extent that we won’t need boots on the ground to secure Assad’s chemical weapons from the terrorists we’re arming.

    Of course, the “degrade” part of that is going to be kind of difficult, since we won’t be targeting the actual weapons.

    And the “deter” part of that is going to be kind of difficult, since we aren’t seeking regime change.

    Even though Obama is on record saying Assad has to go.

    Really DR…why are you having such a hard time understanding the objectives?

  227. Lol….I don’t know how operation uhh…..degrade and deter….can go down without strikes on the nasty rebel outfits as well. Am I crazy? I actually think it could be done if we smash some of these black flag rebel units.

    Reckless shit bombing someone fighting our mortal enemy.

  228. No idea about who they are, but I think Sunni is a safe generalized assumption. I think the bigger question is the numbers. Lebanon’s no stranger to refugees. They’ve been hosting them for 50 years.

    I didn’t get a chance to watch any of the stuff today, I only watched a clip of a short Kerry/Paul exchange.

    In that exchange, Kerry mentioned that our plane are for things to be so limited that Obama really doesn’t need congressional approval. This has been the theme since before he asked congress and its been the theme since.

    Did anyone today (other than Rand Paul who sort of hinted at the question) ask Kerry et al flat out, “if the president doesn’t need congressional approval for this, then why is he seeking it?”

  229. “I actually think it could be done if we smash some of these black flag rebel units.”

    Just call it collateral damage…like when Obama’s robots kill women and children.

  230. I don’t even have word to describe the level of hypocrisy by Barack Obama, John Kerry and the bleating sheep that voted for these men. I hold them all in contempt.

    There is not even an argument that Saddam Hussein gassed more than 50,000 Kurds with VX, Sarin and Mustard gas. There is no argument Saddam Hussein hid and housed terrorists who had killed Americans. There is no argument that Saddam Hussein had destabilized the entire middle east with his actions. There is no argument that Saddam Hussein had continually thumbed his nose at 16 U.N. resolutions, including firing missiles at American Jets in established no fly zones. There is no argument Saddam Hussein had made an attempt on a former President’s life. There is no argument that Saddam Hussein invaded a foreign country Kuwait, and America and a coalition of 20 allies was forced to liberate Kuwait forcing Saddam Hussein to agree to the U.N. resolutions that apparently held no weight.

    When George Bush received Congressional approval to remove Saddam Hussein, including the approval of 109 Democratic Senators including Hillary Clinton, all I heard for five years was “Bush lied, people died.”

    And now? What do we hear from this cancer on America? Silence.

    You have no moral courage at all. You’re beneath contemptible, cowards.

  231. I saw that, Huck. And it should be funny. Problem is, it’s too close to the truth anymore.

    My children are stuck having to support these leeches. I’m not kidding when I say I’m ready to shuck these ticks and shed no tears when I read of them being drained from the gene pool.

  232. I’ve got 3 grandsons now that will be living through this earthly hell our murderous psychopathic rulers are establishing. I can’t accurately express my disgust.

  233. In typical Obama fashion..he says it isn’t his red line…it’s the world’s.

    His supporters can’t own their own votes, and now he can’t own his own threats.

    Meanwhile, the head of the UN reminds that any unilateral action against Syria will also be in breach of international law. No word on what specifically happens if that red line is crossed.

    Technically, it’s within Syria’s rights under international law of imminent threat to attack the United States right now…today.

  234. Amateur hour. Even Kerry, one of the most unprincipled along with Hillary ever to achieve the position, is flummoxed. And this is precisely what the left voted for. A community organizer as CIC without a foreign policy of any kind other than “Bush is a war criminal” and whatever else sounded good to his base when it came time for election and reelection.

    This is really sad.

    So any of the noninterventionist lefties hear care to condemn OR praise your Messiah? You should be aghast.


    Didn’t think so.

    Oh look. A squirrel.

  235. They’re both on record as saying they think we should mind our own business.

    Good thing Obama gave them the cover of congress…

    …even though he claims the right to do it without congress…

    …and might anyway if congress doesn’t approve…

  236. This administration is so clueless, even the Sec. of State can’t say what the president will do if congress does not give approval.

    Obama has already made Kerry look like a jackass once over this.

  237. “They’re both on record as saying they think we should mind our own business.”

    What difference at this point does it make? 😆

  238. no time to read any ofthe commets A doctor removed a dozen staples from my wife’s head yesterday. She and our grand dauggher are doning fine. Im better.

    I changed a nasty diaper after hearing Obama’s news conference. He stunk worse than the diaper.

    Impeach that billious huckster before his feckless behavior sends us to a major war.

    this time,it will make a hell of a lot of difference.

  239. Kerry: “We have 34 countries supporting us on this.”

    Salmon: “Which 34 countries?”

    Kerry: “Uhhh…I don’t have the list with me today.”

    Smart power….

  240. Oh please Tigre do tell us all of GW’s foreign policy experience before he took office.

    Then tell us how wisely he handled all the advice coming from his neocon friends.

    The TRUTH is we haven’t had a cogent foreign policy since WWII.

  241. Excuses from the phoney political blogger. The entire middle east is spiraling out of control dude…..like everyone told you it would.

  242. Excuses from the phoney political blogger. The entire middle east is spiraling out of control dude…..like everyone told you it would.

  243. “The TRUTH is we haven’t had a cogent foreign policy since WWII.”

    The TRUTH is that your man Obama ran on a platform of CHANGE that was going to utilize SMART POWER to make us loved all throughout the world.

    It’s been 5 years since Bush has had the helm. The man YOU voted for twice has had 1/2 a decade to bring the CHANGE he promised you before he ever took over. And he hasn’t done jack squat except launch a robot war in umpteen countries and kill a used up terrorist who was masturbating to computer porn all day.

    So save the “we’ve sucked since WWII” bullshit.

  244. I for one disagree that we’ve been without a cogent foreign policy set for any time at all. We’ve had ones that may not have seemed great but they were in place and much of the time observed and faced competition.
    I am sickeningly close to believing the following is going to happen.
    Tacit approval will be granted by Congress.
    Obama will order the launch of two dozen cruise missiles.
    The missiles will target locations where the top two Syrian units are based.
    Many innocent people will die and Obama will be SILENT
    Vlad is actually gonna punk out like a bitch. I am sick about this too. I didn’t want him to kill any Americans obviously but I wanted like hell for him to put up a fight.
    The Syrian Army will launch a large scale operation against rebel/jihadist strong points.
    I won’t bet the blog on it but I feel pretty good about these points.

  245. ThinkProgress estimates, based on previous public statements, 169 no, 46 yes, and 71 undecided in the House, with many of the yays and nays not being firm (limp?). And the numbers are not along party lines.

    Not that this means anything…but what else do we have to talk about?

  246. I personally find interesting that you can’t condemn your Messiah. This is pathetic.

    What happened to Lurker who has to wait to see what Obama does before having an opinion.

    The Bush FP was an extension of existing policy.

  247. Hey genius Rabbit when did I ever say the Middle East would not spiral out of control?

    Oh my God you’re so prescient to advance the idea that countries full of superstitious rubes would have trouble handling democracy.

  248. Hey Tigre compared to me Tex is Malcolm X.

    In one day, I’ve gone from jiving with a black guy in a racially driven stereotype innuendo back and forth giving everyone a laugh with both of the contestants having a good time too, to then being called racccissstttt by Graychin for doing s, as Graychin still desperate to hurt me 😈 , to being called Malcolm X.

    That’s got to be some kind of record in a 24 hour period. ~ Tex X

  249. I voted Democrat because?
    1. I voted Democrat because I love the fact that I now can marry whatever I want. I’ve decided to marry my poodle.
    2. I voted Democrat because I believe oil companies’ profits of 4 percent on a gallon of gas are obscene, but the government taxing the same gallon of gas at 15 percent isn’t.
    3. I voted Democrat because I believe the government will do better job of spending the money I earn than I would.
    4. I voted Democrat because freedom of speech is fine as long as nobody is offended by it.
    5. I voted Democrat because I’m way too irresponsible to own a gun, and I know my local police are all I need to protect me from murderers and thieves.
    6. I voted Democrat because I believe that people who can’t tell us if it will rain on Friday can tell us that the polar ice caps will melt away in 10 years if I don’t start driving a Prius.
    7. I voted Democrat because I’m not concerned about millions of babies being aborted so long as we keep all death row inmates alive.
    8. I voted Democrat because I think illegal aliens have a right to free health care, education and Social Security benefits, and we should take away the Social Security from those who paid into it.
    9. I voted Democrat because I believe that businesses should not be allowed to make profits for themselves. They need to break even and give the rest away to the government for redistribution as the Democrats see fit.
    10. I voted Democrat because I believe liberal judges need to rewrite the Constitution every few days to suit some fringe kooks who never get their agendas past the voters.
    11. I voted Democrat because I think it’s better to pay billions for their oil to people who hate us but not drill our own because it might upset some endangered beetle, gopher or fish.
    12. I voted Democrat because I’m so turned around it’s unlikely that I’ll ever have another point of view.

  250. I’ve now had a chance to see some of the shit that dropped out Obama’s and Kerry’s mouths yesterday.

    Stonewalling, dissembling, blame-casting, avoidance. Quintessential Obama. Quintessential lack of leadership.

    Won’t own it so he wags his finger at our (former) allies.

    We’re fucked.

    The damage being done to our stature and influence is immeasurable.

    And Huck is right. This is what the idiots on the left wanted and voted for.

    So R, have you bothered to actually listen/read what Obama said or are you just looking for the cheerleaders at MSNBC to give you your lines?

    Just kidding. you’ve turned in and tuned out like the rest of your brethren now that the pretend social justice crusade and cheerleading has passed.

    Time to change the channel.

  251. Offer pockets for Skittles and bulletproof liners and you’ll be driving a golf cart between rooms of your mansion that you never saw before.

    You’re welcome. Don’t forget my cut.

  252. 😆 Make them from hemp with a quicksilver lining.

    Is Teh X a member of the Bleached Posers or the Bitch Pantsers?

    I think the Bleak Panter movement became the DNC.

  253. Russia releases a report that says the rebels did March chem attack, which was actually sent to the UN in July.

    I’m telling you, all Russia has to do now is say “an attack on Syria breaches international law and is a red line for us” and Obama is fucked.

    Remember during the debates when everyone thought it was funny that Obama told Romney the Cold War is over?

    Whose laughing now?

  254. Not only that, Huck, the Navy deployed their ships PRIOR to the gas attack.

    This massive naval deployment was ordered prior to the tragic event of August 21, which begs the question:

    If the chemical weapons attack is a justification for intervening, why was the order to launch an R2P “humanitarian” naval operation against Syria decided upon “Prior” to August 21?


  255. Because Romney would have been worse.

    . . .

    Tigre @ #374 – last night I tuned into Chris Hayes for as long as I could stand it. I couldn’t believe it. I could not believe what I was hearing. And I can’t describe it either – I’ve been trying for 15 minutes here and I’m…I can’t do it.

    It’s a……malady. We are Well and Truly Fucked.

  256. “The 1980s called and wants its foreign policy back” – Obama to Romney during debate.

    Boy that sure was funny, wasn’t it?

    Romney was right all along and Obama didn’t know shit.

    Reset button, my ass.

  257. I find deliciously ironic that John Kerry, using his questionable military service as cover while being questioned, now wants the military that acted he stated in front of Congress acted as Genghis Khan to bail out Obama’s sorry ass for cover.

    Good thing I’m not holding the laser guide. I’d point it at the front door of the Kerry mansion.

  258. I can’t wait to hear the Green Day sequel to American Idiot, where they talk shit about the war/chicken-hawk Obama and all those “idiots” supporting his eventual illegal war?

    Bruce Springsteen and John Bon Jovi sure have been quiet through all of this, as has Hollywood. I’m hoping Green Day and the Dixie Chicks won’t let me down.

  259. Muffy, watching a little MSNBC right now. The most un-serious load of dog shit I have ever heard. They are simply incapable of understanding the problem because they are simply incapable of anything other than deflecting criticism of Obama. It makes my head hurt too.

  260. Allahpundit at Hot Air, who is a lot more fair-minded than some of their commentators, thinks the Senate is going to kill the resolution, even though it can probably pass there.

    Because every single analysis of a House vote shows a landslide failure. Even Pelosi says she is not going to whip for this one. Obama is on his own. And with a bipartisan House shooting down Obama’s war plans (see what I did there?), AP expects Harry Ried and Co. to spare Obama the humiliation.

    Will it be the end of the intervention that never was, or the beginning of Obama’s impeachment when he tells them to piss off and does it anyway?…as he claims he has the power to do.

    Stay tuned….

  261. “Bruce Springsteen and John Bon Jovi sure have been quiet through all of this, as has Hollywood.”

    Hollywood’s spirit won’t be clouded by rumors of war. Heroic Chaz Bono has lost 60 pounds and tragically Ben Affleck has been fighting a brave battle against meanies who have suggested that he will suck as the new Batman. You know, priorities.

    Speaking of the devil, Hollywood has some serious competition with Washington right now in the degree to which each rely on a willing suspension of disbelief.

  262. Noah I can be pretty sure your list of “I voted Democrat…” is not original but I’ll post a response later that will be. And yes I’ll make sure it’s equally asinine as your list. 😉

  263. “Noah I can be pretty sure your list of “I voted Democrat…” is not original but I’ll post a response later that will be. And yes I’ll make sure it’s equally asinine as your list.”

    Why bother? Seriously? Why? The gotcha game still…really? Dude…..as a voter…strike that…as a guy who pretends to take political positions and then defend them with prose……you have some major explaining to do. Can’t believe you let this Team Obama shit castrate you, man. Fucking MSNBC meat cleaver chopping off your twisted wiener, brah.

  264. I voted Republican because:
    1. I want to support the revered institution of heterosexual marriage that ends in divorce 50% of the time.
    2. I want oil companies to make obscene amounts of money and avoid paying taxes in ways I can’t.
    3. I would prefer that the government spend my money killing foreigners overseas than help Americans here at home.
    4. I support the 1st amendment, that is until they start teaching my kid about evolution. I want those books out of the curriculum.
    5. I’d rather do a policeman’s job for him rather than maintain proper levels of law enforcement with my tax dollars.
    6. I’m too stupid to tell the difference between long term changes in climate and the daily weather report.
    7. I care so much about babies that as soon as they’re born I cut funding from every program that could give them an advantage in life. By the way I also support the death penalty so long as we keep disproportionately killing blacks and the poor.
    8. I always thought social security was a commie plot to begin with and I can’t wait to see its demise.
    9. I am under the illusion that big business is my friend and would never screw me over for a profit. In fact I love the GOP cos they’ve told me I’m a winner, a true American cos I’m a white male. They’ve got me so puffed up and so against the moochers I can’t even tell that I’m really just white trash.
    10. I want my conservative judges to be activist whenever it suits them, like taking voting rights away from the young, the elderly and minorities.
    11. I’m too stupid to know that the oil we produce will not be used exclusively for us but will be sold on the open market. I’m also not a big fan of innovation. Oil worked for my grandpa and god dammit it’ll work for you.
    12. I can’t bear to think the world might be changing and I might have to share power with blacks and Hispanics. Besides, Fox News, Glenn Beck and Drudge told me Obams is a Kenyan anti-colonial Socialist.

  265. Graychin, our old pal, I believe has finally lost it. I’ve got a groupie.

    Graychin out for blood in the only way a defeated and humiliated fifi dog knows how. He’s following me around now around the net except here, making accusation and challenging my every move on the most esoteric of subjects.

    I love my mom? Straw man, Tex! Straw man! Ambulance Service? Red Herring, Tex! Red Herring! Stop lights not working? Logical fallacy, Tex! Logical fallacy! Basic 101! 😈

    Remember when old Gray said he was leaving this “viper’s den” forever and ran away steamed with the threat of “Well, does anybody else want to line up for Big Fuck You!”

    Since apparently nobody lined up, It’s carried over to a new board and now he’s gone from butthead to futile pest. I think Yeller must have died or something and left Graychin all alone to fend.

    I asked “Mert” to move to a more “robust” environment to man up, but no go. He flat out refused. I wonder why?

    The best part is since Gray’s incognito, he can’t make accusation I’m retired, unemployed, a bum; Can’t demand my credential; can’t brag about his vast array of adventures behind enemy lines and all his medals; can’t comment about mom Taylor supporting me etc. etc. etc. It must be killing him not to be able to share all those massive weaknesses to the world, lest he reveal himself. 😆 😆

    I think we finally did irreparable damage to Gray’s fragile ego this last go around.

  266. Damn, is the end near?

    Newsweek! Hit the Road Barack

    Finally, Matt Patterson and Newsweek speaks out about Obama. This is timely and tough. As many of you know, Newsweek has a reputation for being extremely liberal. The fact that their editor saw fit to print the following article about Obama and the one that appears in the latest Newsweek, makes this a truly amazing event, and a news story in and of itself. At last, the truth about our President and his agenda are starting to trickle through the protective wall built around him by the liberal media.


    I Too Have Become Disillusioned

    By Matt Patterson (columnist opinion writer)

    Years from now, historians may regard the 2008 election of Barack Obama as an inscrutable and disturbing phenomenon, the result of a baffling breed of mass hysteria akin perhaps to the witch craze of the Middle Ages. How, they will wonder, did a man so devoid of professional accomplishment beguile so many into thinking he could manage the world’s largest economy, direct the world’s most powerful military, execute the world’s most consequential job?

    Imagine a future historian examining Obama’s pre-presidential life: ushered into and through the Ivy League, despite unremarkable grades and test scores along the way; a cushy non-job as a “community organizer;” a brief career as a state legislator devoid of legislative achievement (and in fact nearly devoid of his attention, so often did he vote “present”); and finally an unaccomplished single term in the United States Senate, the entirety of which was devoted to his presidential ambitions.

    He left no academic legacy in academia, authored no signature legislation as a legislator. And then there is the matter of his troubling associations: the white-hating, America-loathing preacher who for decades served as Obama’s “spiritual mentor”; a real-life, actual terrorist who served as Obama’s colleague and political sponsor. It is easy to imagine a future historian looking at it all and asking: how on Earth was such a man elected president?

    Not content to wait for history, the incomparable Norman Podhoretz addressed the question recently in the Wall Street Journal: To be sure, no white candidate who had close associations with an outspoken hater of America like Jeremiah Wright and an unrepentant terrorist like Bill Ayers, would have lasted a single day. But because Mr. Obama was black, and therefore entitled in the eyes of liberal Dom to have hung out with protesters against various American injustices, even if they were a bit extreme, he was given a pass. Let that sink in: Obama was given a pass – held to a lower standard – because of the color of his skin.

    Podhoretz continues: And in any case, what did such ancient history matter when he was also so articulate and elegant and (as he himself had said) “non-threatening”, all of which gave him a fighting chance to become the first black president and thereby to lay the curse of racism to rest?

    Podhoretz puts his finger, I think, on the animating pulse of the Obama phenomenon – affirmative action. Not in the legal sense, of course. But certainly in the motivating sentiment behind all affirmative action laws and regulations, which are designed primarily to make white people, and especially white liberals, feel good about themselves.

    Unfortunately, minorities often suffer so that whites can pat themselves on the back. Liberals routinely admit minorities to schools for which they are not qualified, yet take no responsibility for the inevitable poor performance and high drop-out rates which follow. Liberals don’t care if these minority students fail; liberals aren’t around to witness the emotional devastation and deflated self-esteem resulting from the racist policy that is affirmative action. Yes, racist. Holding someone to a separate standard merely because of the color of his skin – that’s affirmative action in a nutshell, and if that isn’t racism, then nothing is.

    And that is what America did to Obama. True, Obama himself was never troubled by his lack of achievements, but why would he be? As many have noted, Obama was told he was good enough for Columbia despite undistinguished grades at Occidental; he was told he was good enough for the US Senate despite a mediocre record in Illinois; he was told he was good enough to be president despite no record at all in the Senate. All his life, every step of the way, Obama was told he was good enough for the next step, in spite of ample evidence to the contrary.

    What could this breed if not the sort of empty narcissism on display every time Obama speaks? In 2008, many who agreed that he lacked executive qualifications nonetheless raved about Obama’s oratory skills, intellect, and cool character. Those people conservatives included – ought now to be deeply embarrassed.

    The man thinks and speaks in the hoariest of clichés, and that’s when he has his Teleprompters in front of him; when the prompter is absent he can barely think or speak at all. Not one original idea has ever issued from his mouth – it’s all warmed-over Marxism of the kind that has failed over and over again for 100 years. ( An example is his 2012 campaign speeches which are almost word for word his 2008 speeches)

    And what about his character? Obama is constantly blaming anything and everything else for his troubles. Bush did it; it was bad luck; I inherited this mess. Remember, he wanted the job, campaigned for the task. It is embarrassing to see a president so willing to advertise his own powerlessness, so comfortable with his own incompetence. (The other day he actually came out and said no one could have done anything to get our economy and country back on track.) But really, what were we to expect? The man has never been responsible for anything, so how do we expect him to act responsibly?

    In short: our president is a small-minded man, with neither the temperament nor the intellect to handle his job. When you understand that, and only when you understand that, will the current erosion of liberty and prosperity make sense. It could not have gone otherwise with such a man in the Oval Office.

  267. “Graychin out for blood in the only way a defeated and humiliated fifi dog knows how. He’s following me around now around the net except here, making accusation and challenging my every move on the most esoteric of subjects.”

    Awww Tex. Your very own cyber stalker.


    I just emailed my congressman and both senators telling them to vote no for war with Syria.

    If you haven’t done so, you should. Especially the House representative. They tend to listen more closely. In that past I’ve even had return mail in response.

    It only takes a few minutes.

  268. No need, Huck. That’s one of the great things about living in Oklahoma – perhaps one of the few great things. And why Graychin is still living here and not Seattle or Berkeley makes no sense.

    Obama’s vision for America is about as popular as nominating Ayatollah Khamenei for Senator.

    My Congressman, Jim Bridenstine, is a dangerous and racist Tea Party activist.

  269. “I thought you said your list was gonna be original. 😉 ”

    Well to the extent that I wrote it without copying it from a chain letter, yeah it was.

    But more to the point, I promised it would be as asinine as Noah’s list and I think I achieved my goal.

    Both Noah’s and my list are the same old tired talking points, neither representing reality. While we toss these back and forth, Rome burns.

  270. Man….I have over 200 students this year. 40 plus over contract. I just keep taking them and they keep paying me more. Fuck it…

  271. Regards the dueling lists as it were it might’ve been fun if Rutherford posted his list as a new quickie post. Say what you want R but I have to say I see more sarcasm in Noahs offering and more true to life passion in yours.

    The more Snowden “shares” the more conflicted I get. On one hand I am such a pessimistic douche I always reckoned the NSA was doing everything it is now reported/accused of doing. I mean seriously how could they not. Between their mission and their resources I think inanely naive to think otherwise. Hell one could watch Good Will Hunting and dial into it. The flip side of my internal conflict is I think I’d much like Messr. Snowden having his fucking brains blown out. No matter what worth you think the coming dialog and national debate & discussion is all about it is without a doubt he has hurt us and quite frankly the world.

    I am glad I suffered through some PBS tonight. I must say the producer of the segment I listened to probably got the shit kicked out of them back at the coven house. They had a Brandeis professor talking about the jobs numbers. Intensely fair and balanced and honest the purity of the bit was quite enjoyable. Well until it all gelled that we really really are in the shit.

    Syria. I just can’t get it. I wonder sometimes if the way I am feeling is how liberals felt back in the Bush days. I try to reconcile it as possible but it doesn’t jive ultimately. Although I opposed Iraq,supported Afghanistan and for all the reasons that are imo sound I cannot see the comparison with Syria. I get that forces within the US govt. have been Jonesing about Damascus and Assad specifically for years. I can’t believe the short sighted retardation and hypocrisy afoot now though. Assad sucks but he really is the best of the possibles and his short term survival is actually in America’s and the regions best interest. Our national interests,the regions interests are NOT SERVED BY AN ATTACK especially one unilateral in nature and targeting.

    So there it is four gobs I just had to spit out. I hope everyone has a great weekend. NFL openers and a certain anniversary coming. I think the narrative is going to be ugly.

  272. “Everyone here thinks you’re a jackass.” Obama.

    “Look, I’m not just talking about Snowden and Syria,” Mr. Obama said. “What about Pussy Riot? What about your anti-gay laws? Total jackass moves, my friend.” ~Obama

    “If you think I’m the only one who feels this way, you’re kidding yourself,” Mr. Obama said, jabbing his finger in the direction of the Russian President’s face. “Ask Angela Merkel. Ask David Cameron. Ask the Turkish guy. Every last one of them thinks you’re a dick.” ~Obama.

    Our President had a 12 yr old meltdown in front of the world media. Our President is officially a national embarrassment.


  273. Alfie….a regional war is unavoidable. Lets attack Syria and hope Iran gets in the mix so we can do what we will have to do sooner or later. Horrible reality….but coexistence with a nuclear Iran is not possible.

    Dead Rabbit sadly votes Yes.

  274. By the way… I’m assuming the Dems will control the White House for some time. This might be our only shot to stop Iran. Attack Syria and hope the war escalates to force Obama’s hand in stopping the most nightmare scenario imaginable……a nuclear Shiite Sunni split.

  275. Iran is getting The Bomb if that is what it wants. It’s too big a country. Nobody is going to bomb its Bomb away and it has historic success against invaders unless you want to go back more than 2500 years. May as well accept that.

  276. “Our President had a 12 yr old meltdown in front of the world media. Our President is officially a national embarrassment.”

    And not only that, he gave Putin, who is pretty buff, an opportunity to pretty much call him a skinny little punk bitch.

    Again…this is what happens when Obama—the great orator—goes off teleprompter.

  277. I’m sure Recep Erdogan, the leader of Turkey and one of the world’s largest standing armies, appreciates being called “the Turkish guy” by the President of the United States.

    Rutherford, you still think Obama blows away what would have been Romney’s foreign policy?

  278. Uh…2500 years? How did they become Islamic? And….you deserve the Mongol wrath of khan for that bull shit. Not to mention World War II. For shit’s sake the allies kind of famously met there, didn’t they?

  279. We can most certainly bomb Iran out of a bomb. We bombed Germany out of one. Hell…..we bombed Japan right out of their homespun cult.

    They can not be allowed to have a nuke. The entire Middle East will nuke up. It could bring on the apocalypse.

  280. Iran is A LOT bigger than Germany and Japan, and we had to nuke one of those and firebomb the other. Are you proposing we use incendiaries and nukes to stop a country from getting nukes?

    You ready to send your son against the Basij, DR? The last fool who tried to invade Iran shot chemical weapons at them and got human waves of kids sent at him in return….and they repelled the invaders. You gonna send your boy to go kill Iranian kids? Invasion is gonna be the only way to make sure to get it all. You gonna send yours in first?

    I might have misspoken about 2500 years, but you can feel free to find something within..say…the last half a millennium to throw in my face. Pretty funny actually, seeing as you’ve mocked me for bringing up the Crusades when we talk about this stuff.

  281. Iran is big but it is pretty sparse. Probably 3 times the size of Germany with a slightly smaller population. Germany is and was an industrial powerhouse. Half the Iranian population hates the Islamic Republic more then Israel does. The other half is poor and ignorant.

    The Basij? Fuck those brown shirts. They have been spanking women and children for two decades. There are millions of people in Iran salivating over the chance to turn the tables on those assholes.

    While I don’t think occupation is needed to knock out their nuclear capabilities I am aware it’s a massive undertaking. I would be a wreck if my son was along side Will Smith fighting an evil alien invasion hell bent on eradicating all of humanity. So, kind of hard to talk in those terms. All I can say is that we are a military family.

    I don’t remember the context I was mocking you about the Crusades, but I do enjoy mocking you from time to time.

    I will do better then a half a millenium. I will go with a half a century ago. The Anglo Soviet invasion of Iran. Fucking smashed the Persians.

  282. I am home for the first time in two weeks, and it feels good. My wife and I should be back to normal in two or three weeks, they say. Our grand daughter is thriving right now. Our son- in law had minor surgery, and is waiting for the biopsy results.

    Twitchy wrote that UN Ambassador Samatha Powers told the Center for American Progress that “we thought perhaps a shared evidentiary base could convince Russia or Iran–itself a victim of Saddam Hussein’s monstrous chemical weapons attacks in 1987-1988- to cast loose a regime that was gassing its own people”

    God help us all.

  283. I saw a picture of Obama giving Putin death stare. It looked like Sheldon’s from Big Bang Theory. Remember, Ossama bin ladin said when given a choice between a weak horse and a strong horse, people choose the strong horse.

  284. Not for nothing dead rabbit but I think your example of the Anglo-Soviet invasion and ultimate UK/USSR/USA occupation of Iran could equally be used to bolster the argument of how much and why even the youth of Iran support “Iran-ness” over too much of anything from the west.

  285. As for coexistence with Iran,nuclear or otherwise our arrogance and cynicism is crippling us. I think too many people fail to grasp how well other nations play the dirty game of diplomacy and strategic brinkmanship. Iran is a great example. All tooo often Tehran is broad brushed painted as ignorant 7th Century Muslim monkeys when in reality time and again they have proven themselves quite adroit at the modern version of international relations. Please remember the opportunity Afghanistan was to both the US and Iran fostering better relations. Take heed that our actions in Iraq ultimately helped that which we dislike about Iran. I hereby stip that no matter how Syria goes Iran has already positioned itself in a win/win position.
    Ultimately by focusing on Iran we lose sight that we either have to go all in in the Middle East,something I don’t support or all out. There are no half measures. For example if we were to strike both Iran and Syria at its most simplest all we really do is suck the slimey cocks of Qatari and Saudi Wahhabists and where does that get you? A mouth full of jizz right before you get beheaded. Thats the short road. The longer more truthful road is that a strike against both,hell perhaps against just one pits us against the Russians,Iranians,probably the Iraqis and Taliban and waaaayyy on the outside the Chinese in a WWIII battle royal. I ain’t signing on for that and neither is my kid.

  286. “I think too many people fail to grasp how well other nations play the dirty game of diplomacy and strategic brinkmanship.”

    While I think banking on Iranian brinkmanship is pretty risky….it’s not about Iranian brinkmanship, its about the Middle
    Eastern nuclear arms race that will ensue. I can’t believe you guys are willing to trust that situation.

    There are too many forces in the middle east that abhor brinkmanship and adore martyrdom. It’s exactly these forces that have a goal to set up a new Caliphate. Meanwhile…..there are millions on the Arab street angry, destitute and repressed. My analysis? You guys are lulled by a pseudo Orientalist attraction to some aspects Middle Eastern culture mixed with the application of Western rationalism to a place where that don’t jive. Bad mistake.

  287. Not for nothing dead rabbit but I think your example of the Anglo-“Soviet invasion and ultimate UK/USSR/USA occupation of Iran could equally be used to bolster the argument of how much and why even the youth of Iran support “Iran-ness” over too much of anything from the west.” Alfie

    Why is that? The empire crumbled in weeks and basically succumbed to Western Imperialism. They had an economic alliance with Germany and even a wacky neo ethnic kinship, although that theory was admittedly on the fringe. Hell…from the 40’s until the revolution….the West picked who ran Iran.

    I argue Iran is much more divided then you realize. Of course, you site the response to the Iraqi invasion as proof of bad ass Iranian nationalism. I say an invasion by fucking Saddam Husein could bring George Zimmerman and Al Shartpon together in the same trench, brothers in arms.

  288. That being said, I think the debate over nuclear Iran is a worthy one. However, Hucking throwing around this notion of a 2,500 year old fortress Iran is a falsehood. There are many reasons, both historically and socially, to think Iran could be defeated without epic loss to American or even Iranian lives. Again, I’m not saying it would be easy. In fact, it would take an air assault like none other in history to destroy Iran’s nuclear capabilities. But Go Navy motherfuckers!

  289. My bringing up the Iraq destabilization was not about Iranian nationalism it was about taking out one of the two regional balancers of the Iranian regime and going even further giving Iran the gift of then being able to infiltrate and influence the future of Iraq which they clearly have done. We misplayed and Iran won.

    As for the Iran of the 40’s. They were a runt neutral nation who were pawned for the benefit of the Allies. If we were not the ones writing the history books Iran could have been portrayed as the equivalent of Haile Selassie and Ethiopia.

    A Middle East arms race is inevitable in fact it is occurring right now and the respective cash registers are a clinging. A nuclear arms race? Well you are right a nuclear Iran may very well,hell most likely cause the Saudis to acquire nukes and those would probably be from the USA. Israel of course would reinvigorate their arsenal and the wild card at play would then be played focusing on Pakistan. I don’t see any other players.Do you?
    Now Pakistan possesses nukes for one reason and one reason only….India. I think this discounts them as a part of the equation. I only bring them up to illustrate that the possession of nukes can occur even under the most bizarre situations.
    The Sunni Shiite Show with nukes is something to be aware of though I agree. I don’t see how it guarantees a race to annihilation though. Street urchins and zealous jihadists doth not a government make. I don’t see any reason to believe the governments of the remaining regional protagonists creates a scenario for mushroom clouds and glass.

    As for taking Iran to the edge of a new revolution which is how I read your overall position [am I right?] I don’t think doing so militarily does the trick. I also don’t think the masses have forgotten our response to their Green Movement. You want to get the Iranian masses of youth to throw off the yoke of the septuagenerian mulluhs you’re gonna have to offer something else than a Tomahawk in Tehran. In closing I would agree that Iran’s people are open to change,.There is much that supports this notion. I just think we can’t negate the potential for reflexive actions on their part if we try to push the wrong stimulus.

  290. I think you make a fair point about Pakistan and India. I would love to read how close they have come to using them. Wonder what their Cuban Missile Crisis was like?

    You cite 50 years of Pakistan and India not nuking one another as evidence that perhaps the nuclear warhead brings about rational brinkmanship. I say 50 years isn’t even one person’s life time. Pakistan is a horrible situation! Those nukes could, in fact, end up in up in some Jihadi hands. Interestingly, I think we both use Pakistan as examples for the opposite reasons!

  291. “My bringing up the Iraq destabilization was not about Iranian nationalism it was about taking out one of the two regional balancers of the Iranian regime and going even further giving Iran the gift of then being able to infiltrate and influence the future of Iraq which they clearly have done.” -Alfie

    Sorry about that as I didn’t make myself clear. I meant the Iraqi invasion of Iran. I was downplaying any proof of nationalism that the Iranian response to Iraq showed. I think we got out paths crossed there as I might have been responding to Huck.

    I agree with you about “Wahbabi jizz” by the way. There is no way I attack Assad with out attacking the rebels at the same time. I’ve said that from the start.

  292. In 1983, the Soviet Union’s early warning system twice reported that Americans were launching ICBMs from bases in the US. Lt Col Stanislav Petrov, an officer with the Soviet Defence Forces watched the incipient attack.

    At the time, US-Russian relations had deteriorated to the point that the leadership and system were geared to expect an attack and to retaliate quickly.The Soviets believed that Reagan was capable of launching such an attack.

    Petrov saw a single missile headed for the Soviet Union, but he also assumed we would be sending more than one missile. He believed it was a computer error. Later, the system detected four more missiles, and Petrov again assumed a computer error, because what he saw seemed illogical.

    He probably saved millions of lives. Pakistan and India are examples of an accident waiting to happen regardless of their leaders’ pure intentions.

  293. Some might dismiss it but I think we see a good mix of opinion here and not groupthink. It is a shame the left wing travelers can’t hang a little tougher.
    Fwiw thanks for the chat deadrabbit

  294. I should point out that while I think hucking might exaggerate Iran’s power, he does make a strong argument that it is too risky.

    This one is not easy.

    The fact that nobody trusts Obama due to that sickening and laughable response to Benghazi certainly complicates things. The narrative he spun was so ludicrous and doomed from the start you have to wonder how desperate this guy’s political calculus is. Is he capable any kind of leadership where country comes first, political dings second? Liberals mindlessly mock Benghazi. Those lies have come back to bite America ten fold. It was and still is a big deal.

  295. We can’t and we won’t do anything about iran, Korea, or other major threats, because most of us, including this administration don’t understand the implications pro and con.

    Lativia, the equivalent of a red state endured a major depression which sent a tenth of its people abroad because they believed borrowing and spending would ultimately create even worse problems. Now, their economy is one of the most healthy in the EU, though the country is still very poor.

    The other Baltic nations followed the same path with similar results. Conservatives touted their record as something to emulate. Paul Krugman wrote that they were essentially failed states which should have followed his advice.

    Someone asked a Lativian if he thought their methods would work in the US. He replied that the demographics and economies are different, but at any rate, Americans are too weak to make the sacrifices.

    I believe our short attention spans, and ignorance, not Iran or its allies would defeat us. As the Latvian said, we are emotionally too weak.

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