Court is in Session

The three major SCOTUS decisions last week trigger three thoughts of mine, some admittedly tenuously related to the matters at hand.

DOMA
The court ruling that advanced the ball a little on gay rights made me think about how we will know we’ve reached the promised land: when we ALL go back in the closet, gay and straight.

In polite society we don’t discuss our sexual practices. When folks get on TV and declare themselves gay that is shorthand for “I engage in oral sex and/or sodomy and/or mutual masturbation with someone of my own gender.” When a straight person declares himself straight on TV he is using the same shorthand with respect to the opposite sex. And you know what folks? It just ain’t polite. We need to get to a point in this country where folks no longer feel the need to make this declaration.

And let’s get one thing clear since we’ve muddled up this argument with stupid rhetoric. The opposition to gay marriage in this country hasn’t a damn thing to do with “who we love”. It has to do with some people’s disgust with the sex act being shared between same gender couples. It has nothing to do with marriage as an environment for procreation. It has to do with marriage as an environment for sexual intercourse. No one bats an eye at heterosexual childless couples. We don’t care that they don’t procreate–we’re just glad they fuck “as God intended”.

Once we get over homosexuality as perversion we will be fine with gay marriage and then we can all stop talking about it and put our sex back where it belongs for all of us: back in the privacy of our bedroom.

Voting Rights Act
OK this one stung for several reasons. First it highlights Antonin Scalia’s hypocrisy as he bemoans judicial activism in the CA prop 8 decision (that was released with the DOMA decision) but has no problem tossing out the will of Congress on voting rights.

Putting that aside, we need to respond to this decision by playing the game on the State’s terms and stop whining. They want you to have a photo ID? Then if you REALLY want to vote, get the damn ID. Do what you have to do and beat them at their own game. Folks stood in line for hours in 2012 to vote. They weren’t taking no for an answer. That is the determination we must bring to every election. When they can’t beat down our will they will cross the line of illegality and then the Voting Rights Act will still be there for us to prosecute them.

U of Texas
The Court essentially kicked this can down the road by sending it back to the lower court for further review. But it does give me a chance to state my own preference: EO not AA.

I believe that institutions intent on diversity need to maximize outreach. They should actively recruit minority applications. However, the application evaluation process should be color blind. Paul Ryan was right when he said last year that we don’t guarantee equal outcomes. We shouldn’t. But he was dead wrong in implying we have equal opportunity. We don’t. To the extent that college admission programs can give the talented underclass a fair hearing, so much the better. However it goes too far if race trumps qualifications.

An Aside in Defense of Rick Perry
The liberal media and progressives in general had a conniption when TX Governor Rick Perry suggested that state Senator Wendy Davis had not learned from her own life the value of every human life. Davis famously engaged in an 11 hour filibuster to block anti-abortion measures in Texas. Davis, it turns out, not only was born out of wedlock but had her first born unmarried at age 19. Perry cited Davis’ successful life as evidence of the potential that exists in every zygote and fetus.

People say Rick shouldn’t have made it personal but folks what else is the abortion debate if not personal? The decision whether or not to allow a pregnancy to go to term is probably the most personal decision a woman will make. It is for that reason that Rick’s comment was completely appropriate in that it got the matter down to brass tacks. It is also the reason why government needs to play a minimal role in this matter.

Rick said out loud what any self respecting pro-life person was thinking. Rick’s only mistake was in assuming that Davis’ mother’s very personal decision is right for every woman.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

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462 thoughts on “Court is in Session

  1. Once we get over homosexuality as perversion we will be fine with gay marriage and then we can all stop talking about it and put our sex back where it belongs for all of us.

    Nature dictates otherwise..

  2. This is where you go wrong Tex. I’m being restrained when I say wrong.

    Homosexuality exists in multiple species the bonobo being the most often cited.

    Just the other day John Oliver (subbing for Jon Stewart) showed a dog face-f*cking another dog.

  3. If wikpedia is to be believed, there is a shocking amount of gayness in the animal world.

    The debate seems to be if its a dominence thing as in prison rape or actual gayness. Personally, boofing a dude is gay. Doesn’t matter if Im in prison, on the Love Boat or I’m a giraffe.

  4. Opposing gay marriage isn’t about how people feel about the sex act. So maybe some heterosexuals are repulsed by the idea of homosexual sex. Have you ever heard a homosexual discuss heterosexual sex? To say that a goodly number of homosexuals are squeamish about heterosexual sex is putting it mildly. What does that mean then? Evidently Alec Baldwin feels a little hostile toward homosexuals – what is that about? I’ll bet he’s for gay marriage.

    Watch what happens when someone decides to sue the Church for discrimination because the Church won’t marry them. What will you say then? What happens when church marriages aren’t recognized by Government?

    I’m beginning to think that government is hostile to religion because it can’t stand the competition.

    I support gay marriage but the day the zealots start to demand that churches perform gay marriages or lose their tax exempt status is the day I stop going along with this.

  5. I support gay marriage but the day the zealots start to demand that churches perform gay marriages or lose their tax exempt status is the day I stop going along with this.

    Already happened in Europe, Muffy. And worse, pastors are being persecuted in the pulpit for refusing to perform gay marriages or condemning homosexuality as hate speech. Numerous instances. I’m surprised a majority of the people here don’t see gay marriage for what it really is – to tear down the very foundations of civilization. If you can’t see that, then you’re blind.

    Just a matter of time because secularization is not neutral. Never has been.

    Like I said, I cringe when somebody calls themselves Christian and says they approve of gay marriage. It’s clearly in conflict with the one relationship besides Christ ordained by God – and in the strongest of terms.

  6. My theory is most gay dudes don’t want to be married.

    But then again, I’m not very cosmopolitan. I’ve had real friendships with people from many ethnic groups (apparently Rutherford’s wet diversity dream), but I honestly have never really known anyone out of the closet gay outside a few lesbians in the Navy or Gaydar blips from Thor types. Not even superficially. If I knew a gay dude who was cool I would ask what’s with the weird lisping flamboyant stuff? Chicks don’t act that way. Why do so many put on this odd show? And why would a gay person be attracted to a femmy dude? Why not just go for a chick? Same with the whole butch thing? I don’t get it.

    Admittedly, I am a little homophobic (outside of porno lesbians of course). Gayness, particularly affection between dudes is repulsive to me. As in I physically cringe. I’ve noticed you can’t really admit that to anyone these days or you will either be accused as being a bigot or a repressed homo…..but damn two dudes holding hands is gross as huffing a paper bag full of dog poop. I don’t know how Pfessor can spend the evening giggling with those types at dinner parties and I’m not trying to be super hetro, here.

    All in all….I very reluctantly err on the side of freedom. In light of the recent ruling, I don’t understand why the same rights shouldn’t be given to polygamists. At least there is a global tradition in that regard.

    I’m with Muffy…..if they ever dare attacking churches……unfortunately that will probably be next.

  7. To answer Tex…..I don’t approve or even recognize the marriage. I guess I don’t care if the government does. At least I think I don’t.

  8. There’s some subjects you should leave alone, Rutherford. Like religion, this is one. It demonstrates clearly how utterly juvenile you can be, how easily you’re led by the nose and why you reach such horrible conclusions to guide your own life.

    Here’s why you choose the side you do. It is not of empathy or rational or the right choice for society; it’s this:

    You’re a cheerleader who chose a team dominated by leftists. Because they are leftists and side with Obama, or believe in big government, or believe in reparations, or make excuse for the profound ignorance of Rachel Jeantels of world by enabling more of it, you assume they must be right about everything. It’s as predictable as your MSNBC show in last place and you and your wife still watching. 😐

    This is where you go wrong Tex. I’m being restrained when I say wrong. Homosexuality exists in multiple species the bonobo being the most often cited.

    Let me try to explain this to you in a rational sense. And I say that in the most restrained sense myself. This is from a paper I once wrote, and I can’t find the source from where I got it, but I’m sure I can locate it if need be.

    The reasoning behind the animal homosexuality theory can be summed up as follows:

    – Homosexual behavior is observable in animals.
    – Animal behavior is determined by their instincts.
    – Nature requires animals to follow their instincts.
    – Therefore, homosexuality is in accordance with animal nature.
    – Since man is also animal, homosexuality must also be in accordance with human nature.

    If seemingly “homosexual” acts among animals are in accordance with animal nature, then parental killing of offspring and intra-species devouring are also in accordance with animal nature.

    We must therefore conclude that filicide and cannibalism are according to human nature. You can’t even discriminate even if you were right about bonobos, which you are not.

    See the major hole in your logic of trying to use animals to define human nature, even when you don’t understand the first thing about animals?

    Moreso, anyone engaged in the most elementary animal observation is forced to conclude that animal “homosexuality,” “filicide” and “cannibalism” are exceptions to normal animal behavior. Therefore, they are not instinct but exceptions to normal animal behavior.

    So, to put in terms even libs might grasp.

    As an act of domination to compete for mating? 🙄 No, there’s not one shred of proof in the animal kingdom that homosexuality for the enjoyment of sex exists. Not one. Sex in the animal kingdom is for procreation – same sex is an evolutionary dead end. Somehow, through all of those nature shows, you must have missed the purpose.

    But you missed my point and this is where you demonstrate not only a lack of rational and critical thinking, but how utterly void you are of the most basic of scientific understanding.

    A cock does not belong in a rectum. Do I have to draw it out for biologically to demonstrate that is not a purpose anatomically of a rectum and there is no complementary purpose? A penis and a vagina are complementary – virtually the inverse of the other with obvious purpose.

    I mean, are you really this shallow and stupid? Before you answer, you have recently given good indication you are…

    Like I’ve asked you before and you can’t answer. My female lab used to hump my mail lab when he was sick. Did she have penis envy, because using your analogy to human sexuality with respect to the animal kingdom, that could be the only explanation. Right?

    Did you know Rutherford that the smell of a female dog in heat can instigate a frenzy of mounting behaviors? Even other females who are not in heat will mount those who are?

    Is that homosexuality?

  9. I’m sorry. I was going to try and show mercy to poor Rutherford, as I know he’s in a difficult predicament with the job situation. But some things are simply too important to let slide for the sake of friendship, or keeping the peace.

    Daniel Patrick Moynihan, perhaps the only self described liberal I ever respected, once noted that we as Americans were allowing deviancy to dumb us all downward. When Rutherford starts this illiterate demagoguery being a pawn for the wicked zealots, I’ve decided it is healthier for him to be shot down immediately from now on. For 50 years, we’ve allowed the lies to propagate and look what it has wrought.

    Consider it tough love – something cracka should have told racist Pan Afro America about 40 years ago before the negro destroyed their own and started rearing their own to hate whitey, with that horrid influence now spreading to all races. You think black boys the only ones with their pants hanging down by their knees, demeaning women in song?

    I’ve really had it with this agenda of tearing down traditions with the real intent of destroying thousands of years of healthy norms, for reasons best understood by theology. And most of my side too ignorant to determine or too cowardly to respond to the real purpose, taking some muddled position to try and appease.

    Gang, you can’t appease evil and win. You should have learned that by now about allowing racism to fester, by allowing sloth to profit, by allowing abortion to rule, by allowing bad behavior to go unpunished.

    America can no longer afford to waver between two positions…

  10. By the way Rutherford. This is not the first time you’ve made grandiose boasts of your your know how, replete of promises of greatness and loud condemnation of your American adversaries, only to be proven so drastically wrong while the damage irreparable, one wonders why you believe you have credibility to speak on moral matters well beyond your pay grade?

    Why is it that you don’t first admit to the telephone pole of hypocrisy, or should I say monumental errors in judgement, about A previous social faux pas of “You are the Ones We’ve Been Waiting For?”

    Waiting for what? To finish us off? Death To America?

    Want a startling reminder of how easily you are duped, how utterly rudderless and empty your previous rhetoric?

    ———–

    Being of all people still here, it was you that promised more than anyone else that Barack Obama would restore America’s global reputation – same as 200,000 mindless and completely blind rubes like you who stood outside Berlin and cheered the Cult of Obama when I first met you. That was followed by a completely unprepared and fraudulent charlatan being elected President with you as his court jester the first year, then twelve days later being awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for reasons still unknown. These are the same “experts” you now quote about gay marriage too, I might add.

    So tonight, in a very liberal newspaper called the Financial Times, in a very foreign country who supposedly hated George Bush in the worst of terms, I am reading many of this type of well founded comment.

    The excuses for Mr. Obama are quite astonishing. Barack Obama never had anything to do with the end of the Iraq War. This battle was determined months prior to his entering the White House. Also, the withdrawal agreements had already been created by the Bush Administration the newly created free Iraqi Democracy. Both Baghdad and Kabul (in Afghanistan) were considered safer than Chicago, Detroit, etc. prior to when Obama was sworn in as President.

    Obama created his own surge in Afghanistan, casualty rates skyrocketed, making Barack culpable for 80% of the US losses in this arena with a new war. Obama lied about everything, rendition, wiretaps, transparency, drone assassinations, executive orders, work related violence, terrorism, signing statements, lobbyists, etc

    His disastrous economic policies have led the USA to reach the highest poverty rate in history, entrenched chronic unemployment, grown obscene cost of living increases, created absurd levels of unaffordable/unsustainable deficits, lost the USA’s AAA credit rating for the first time ever, etc. But his failure in foreign policy is astonishing.

    The absurd malfeasance and lies in the slaughter of a US Ambassador foolishly denied appropriate security was pathetic. So was Obama and Clinton telling vivid lies while standing next to the victims in flag draped coffins. Obama decided to provide a vapid return to the weak appeasement of the Carter/Clinton era, foolishly enabling the worst in the world. Obama cannot even support a popular democracy movement over a dictatorial Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. Obama is a laughing stock overseas, with Russia, Iran, China, etc., making a mockery of his weak sophistry.

    Do you see what I might not put a lot of credence in your opinions?

  11. I don’t see why you should not say anything you’ve said Tex. Or why you’d be sorry for saying it.

  12. I’ve got a hellish week ahead of me on the job — mandatory OT due to holiday, bus strike and a damn plague of absenteeism in my own company so I’ve got to go to bed.

    1. Tex, prove me wrong on the bonobo. It’s well known — they’re the horniest animal on Earth.

    2. You are the one, not I, who described homosexuality with respect to “nature”. I did not do that, you did. I was simply answering you on your own terms. If you are arguing that man, a high species, should not be measured by practices within nature (my dear mother’s old argument) then that is entirely different. But then the minute you do that, you must abandon your “it’s not natural” argument and simply say “humans have advanced beyond that”. Your claim that it’s not natural is just plain false.

    3. A penis belongs in a mouth no more than it belongs in an anus yet I don’t see you losing sleep over a blow job between a man and woman. In fact, I don’t see you losing sleep over sodomy between a man and woman … which DOES occur. Therefore your biological objection to gay sex is selective and dare I say bogus.

    4. I have come to the conclusion that all marriages, gay or straight, should be civil in the eyes of the law and that a religious ceremony should just be topping on the cake, so to speak, for those who find value in that. By that logic, NO CHURCH should ever be forced to marry any two individuals contrary to its belief system — and that includes marrying a Catholic to a Jew.

    GN all — I’ll pop in as time permits during the week. For those of you who pray, say a word for me this week, those mofo’s are trying to break me!!! 😯

  13. As shown in the video I have posted here more than once, chimps sometimes eat other chimps after an attack. I don’t know that it is common, but I have a feeling it isn’t uncommon, either. It wasn’t just 1 chimp doing it, so I doubt it was their first time, or that this was the only group to do it.

    As for the bonobos…I actually heard the same thing…in a classroom. I admit, that doesn’t make it right.

    I don’t know enough to say Tex is wrong, but Rutherford isn’t just pulling these out of thin air.

    Re: gay marriage…I am not to the point that I say I am in favor of it. But I am to the point that I am not against it. I have gays and lesbians in my family, that I care deeply for. For me, I don’t feel comfortable telling them that they can’t have something that I have…a marriage. But I would not be in favor of forcing a church to perform them.

  14. No one will be in favor of it. Even Obama will be outraged when he learns of it from the media along with the rest of us. But it will happen. Without even winning a single debate over it on a blog.

    Tex isn’t wrong. Not if #16 is the unrestrained version of where he’s wrong.

  15. I’m to the point that I just don’t give a fuck anymore. If you suck dick–man or women–by all means, have at it, just stop walking in parades telling me that you suck dick. I don’t care. Unless you’re offering to blow me, just shut the fuck up.

  16. R, I know you’ll love this:

    School administrators at Winston-Salem State University (WSSU) are systematically raising the final grades of African-American students, three ex-faculty members told Campus Reform last month.

    Former Director of Academic Technology Shira Hedgepeth, along with two former professors who spoke to Campus Reform on the condition of anonymity, alleged administrators at the historically black college routinely increase the final grades of African-American students in order to raise the school’s standing.

    “Some students had their final grades changed based on their race,” Hedgepeth told Campus Reform on June 6. “That was a common complaint of many of the faculty that I worked with.”

    “None of the Caucasian or non-African American students… none of their grades were changed,” she added. “The way the grades fell out, there was no other reason for changing.”

    Documents provided to Campus Reform by one of the former faculty members appear to validate these claims. Campus Reform has chosen not to publish the records due to concerns that doing so may violate the Family Education Rights and Privacy Act by revealing the names and grades of students.

    According to Hedgepeth, and the two former professors who were granted anonymity because of they feared speaking out may jeopardize their retirement, instructors would submit final grades to the school only to have them later revised upwards by administrators as a way to “take care of their African American students.”

    I must admit, I find it odd that someone who seems to see race in everything else would suddenly think that race in college admissions is somehow, too much…

  17. Thought you’d all appreciate this. It was an ad in a local Facebook town site.

    ‘Iso someone that wud be kind enuff to cut my grass for me. I wud do it myself but I dnt like the smell of fresh cut grass. I have a big front yard and a small back yard. Please help me.’

    I do not think this is a joke post.

    Tell me again what a bang-up job American education is doing…

  18. R – you are a complex, thoughtful son-of-a-gun. Sometimes I think we all take for granted how rare a place this is, where everyone can be on his worst behavior and still be heard. You are a hellaciously better man than I. Good luck on your upcoming hell week. My bud Joe is an MD at a long-term acute care facility and got assigned to a 7-day stretch this week; he is not a happy campesino.

    Re: queers. Never saw one until I was in college. They really squicked me out. Even as a college porn consumer, the male gay sex I just couldn’t stomach, watch or read about. But the years rolled, and gay contact in academia unavoidable. The thing I grew to appreciate is that the usual stereotype, “They wear it on their sleeve,” just wasn’t true. I found them without exception to be good guys who wanted a home-life, things just like other people had and, dear to my heart, to be let alone. One guy said to me, “Look, you think I enjoyed getting hell beat out of me every day at school? Think I wouldn’t like to not be different? I’m queer, and I’ve wasted a lifetime trying to deny it. It’s like you saying you are a believer. You could say “I believe” a million times, but in the morning you wouldn’t be any different. It is who I am.”

    Personally I think the DOMA defeat is a non-event. I don’t see how someone else getting married threatens my marriage in any way. Marriage is 99+ percent a legal and interpersonal contract; you want sex you can just shack up.

    Churches are private; if they don’t want to perform religious marriages, fine – that’s their business and nobody else’s, but I don’t see ANY reason to deny the legal entity itself to anybody willing to make the commitment.

  19. re: Voting Rights Act. A part of me says that voting is ‘way too easy; when you had to own property or otherwise show you had a dog in the hunt other than the safety of your meal ticket, we didn’t have these bastards in office whose careers revolved around spending other people’s money. On the one hand, I see the idea that “everybody gets to vote,” OTOH we are where we are because the nonproductive are constantly voting themselves benefit out of the public till.

    UT. AA has caused nothing but disruption since it came into being. Socialists have tried the “equality of outcome” thing forever; it doesn’t work. If people don’t have equal opportunity, then fix THAT; the rest is up to them, and the sob-sisters with the leaky waterworks need to understand that people are NOT equal and some will just do better than others. No help for it.

    Rick Perry. Classic case of, “The end justifies the means.” If you have to resort to getting personal to make your case, then you have no case. If he wants to point to one person’s success, I’ll point out the overwhelming failure of the illegitimate-birth machine born, funded and promoted by the govt supports given to the mothers of bastard children.

  20. Tex, prove me wrong on the bonobo. It’s well known — they’re the horniest animal on Earth.

    I don’t need to prove you wrong. What you are engaging in is anthropomorphizing , or interpreting something animals do by assuming they have the same purpose in mind as humans.

    You need to prove yourself right as it is you that is attempting to change the definition of marriage by justifying abnormal animal behavior to apply to man, to justify man’s homosexuality as perfectly normal human behavior.

    I actually find this humorous. It actually supports what I have said of liberals all along. They have little ability to reason – you included. It also confuses many Conservatives because they rationalize it’s about rights. Problem is, homosexuals this very minute have the same rights. Any unmarried man can marry any unmarried woman in marriage. That’s the same right.

    So it is not about rights either.

    Rutherford, in your zealotry to demonstrate your superiority of rational thought and compassion, you’re now resigned to using chimps to justify man’s behavior. If you’re going to resort to such tactics, then you must remain consistent in your argument. Male adult bonobos have been known (well documented) to kill the offspring of competing alpha males. Should we use that as example as justifiable killing of Trayvon™ Martin? Perhaps George Zimmerman was unconsciously trying to preserve his gene pool?

    Although homosexual behavior is very common in the animal world, it seems to be very uncommon that individual animals have a long-lasting predisposition to engage in such behavior to the exclusion of heterosexual activities. Thus, a homosexual orientation, if one can speak of such thing in animals, seems to be a rarity. ~ Homosexual Science and Activist Simon LeVay, Cf. Simon LeVay, Queer Science: The Use and Abuse of Research into Homosexuality (Cambridge, Mass.: MIT Press, 1996).

    Why don’t you be the first liberal to be honest enough to admit on this board what your real purpose is? Like Obama, you want radical transformation. And that transformation can’t happen without an elimination of accepted standards and an the marginalization of organized religion.

    That’s your real goal, though you might not be bright enough to recognize it yet because you’re just a pawn on the liberal board I’ve decided. 😐

  21. Tex opined: ” Problem is, homosexuals this very minute have the same rights. Any unmarried man can marry any unmarried woman in marriage. That’s the same right.”

    Tex, you are one sharp sonofagun, but you and I both know that is not a valid argument:

    See if these fit in along the same line:

    “… the majestic equality of the laws, which forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets and to steal bread.” – Thibault

    A farmer, plagued by rats, decided to buy a cat. The rats, upon hearing of his plan, held council and made the following decision: They would approach the farmer and tell him that, if he would not buy a cat, they would not buy a cat.

    “Any unmarried man can marry any unmarried woman in marriage. That’s the same right.”

    hmmm…….

  22. An excellent article from WSJ. This ain’t all of it…

    But last week the prosecutor’s star witness, Rachel Jeantel, turned the racial narrative on its head. She was on the phone with Martin in the moments before the deadly confrontation, and she testified that Martin described Zimmerman as a “creepy-ass cracker,” that last word being an antiwhite slur. So that it seems Martin racially profiled Zimmerman. That does not exclude the possibility that the profiling was mutual, but it certainly complicates matters for the “referendum” crowd.
    The revelation occasioned a flurry of commentary from leftists trying to explain away Martin’s use of the slur. Alexander Abad-Santos of TheAtlanticWire.com opined that “saying ‘creepy-ass cracker’ . . . is just a way of saying things,” a lovely example of the logical fallacy known as begging the question. GlobalGrind.com published a piece by Rachel Samara titled “What White People Don’t Understand About Rachel Jeantel.” (Imagine the outcry if anybody published a piece called “What Black People Don’t Understand About X,” where X is any topic.)
    Salon’s Joan Walsh, author of a book whose actual title is “What’s the Matter With White People?,” denounced “white grievance-mongers” who do not care for the word “cracker”:

    My God, don’t these people get tired of themselves? So much of the trumped-up racial upset on the right, generally, is about language: If black people can use the N-word, why can’t we? . . . Now we’re moving on to: If the N-word is racist and forbidden, words like “cracker” should be, too.

    But “cracker” has never had the same power to demean, or to exile, or to sting. No social order has ever been devised whereby African-Americans oppress people they deride as “crackers.”

    Walsh is surely correct in observing that “cracker” is less harsh than the antiblack racial slur to which she alludes–the one that in recent years has become so taboo that it’s usually just called “the N-word.”
    But so what? In the context of the Zimmerman trial, the comparison is irrelevant. Nobody has claimed that Zimmerman used “the N-word.” In fact, as we noted in April 2012, a report on NBC News, Al Sharpton’s network, included an audio clip of Zimmerman telling a 911 dispatcher, in reference to Martin: “This guy looks like he’s up to no good. . . . He looks black.”
    It turned out a Sharpton colleague had deceptively edited the recording to Zimmerman’s disadvantage. The exchange actually went like this:

    Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. Or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.
    Dispatcher: OK, and this guy–is he black, white or Hispanic?
    Zimmerman: He looks black.

    In context, Zimmerman’s observation that “he looks black” is entirely innocent. But the relevant point today is that if NBC’s version of the recording had been truthful, it would have been problematic for Zimmerman not because he said “black” instead of the politically correct “African-American,” but because even without any slur, it would have been evidence of racial profiling.
    Martin’s description of Zimmerman as a “creepy-ass cracker” is problematic for the same reason the phony NBC quote would have been. It would have been no less problematic for the Zimmerman-profiled-Martin theory of the case if Martin had described Zimmerman as, say, a “creepy-ass white dude” instead.
    Walsh’s observation that “no social order has ever been devised whereby African-Americans oppress people they deride as ‘crackers’ ” is, in the main, true. Today there is systematic discrimination against whites, but to call it “oppression” would be a gross overstatement.
    But whatever George Zimmerman’s culpability in Martin’s shooting, he is not to blame for the social order of pre-civil-rights America. He has every right to mount a vigorous defense, and the judge and jury have a duty, as in any criminal trial, to give the defendant the benefit of any reasonable doubt.
    The rightful term to describe a criminal trial that serves as a “referendum” is “show trial.”

  23. Actually Pfesser, I find that the most valid argument of all.

    There is no discrimination in the right to marriage – it is equally applicable to every citizen with the same guidelines. There is no ban on gay marriage, because the term “gay marriage” has never existed.

    Your analogy is cute but I don’t find it terribly fitting because iin all likelihood, the farmer still bought the cat.

    I’ll try to explain why I am so adamant about why Rutherford so wrong and weak minds so easily misled.

    ———–

    Advertisers have known without completely understand the ramifications that speech does not merely proceed from our thoughts. What we are discovering is that how we speak affects how we think about the world – and your conscious not entirely aware of that fact.

    I know abortion is where you and I have profound disagreements, but I think you honest enough to admit that when speaking about abortion, there was a battle framed forty years ago by the pro-choice crowd in the use of semantics that they won. For instance, is it a baby? Or is it a product of conception, a zygote, an embryo, or fetus we are terminating?

    Same thing happening in the discussion of same sex marriage.

    Suddenly, marriage has become a voluntary union of persons in a committed relationship rather than a union of a man and a woman. Notice how this affects how we think about marriage? It much easier to justify homosexual “marriage” if marriage is really the union of persons in a committed and loving relationship, If that all marriage is, then why shouldn’t gay people be allowed to participate in this institution? Who could argue with that?

    Also notice how by framing the issue in terms of a supposed “ban” on same-sex marriage, the proponents have altered the terms of the debate and done exactly what they did in the abortion debate by make the act of abortion a “choice.”

    It’s all very clever because it plays upon the subconscious without people realizing it. That’s exactly why this debate has switched so suddenly from no way to okay. By framing the question of what constitutes a union, you can actually change the way one defines the union.

    The true libertarian position is mine, Pfesser. For instance, in 1992 only one Fortune 500 company offered employee benefits to same-sex domestic partners; today hundreds do. That was done without the requirement of gay marriage. If equal rights were really the issue in question and not definition, we could change the laws for benefits and taxation to be equal.

    In addition, that is the very definition of tolerance which is what was originally demanded by gay activists as little as ten years ago. Rest assured, that’s not the end game nor the purpose of the gay community for demanding the word ‘marriage’ be applied to their ‘unions.’ Many of them have admitted as much.

    The bottom line is the gay community want to use the power of nanny government to force everyone to recognize same-sex unions as marriages whether they want to or not. That’s not tolerance; that’s forced acceptance. And I can quickly surmise where it goes from there. Like I told Muffy. It’s already happened in Europe and Canada.

    Now whose “rights” are really being infringed upon?

    What we have here is 10,000 years of human history that has always agreed that the union of a marriage consists of opposite sex – that’s not just organized religion but every walk of historical demographic of every continent. That’s also nature’s role of propagating the species.

    It’s only the last 20 years or so, that the question of gay marriage even proposed.

    And I think many of you have walked right into the trap of letting your speech affect how you rationalize and think.

    To pattern your analogy Pfesser, you’ve got the cart before the horse.

  24. Agree with Tex on this. I have gay folks in my family and love them no matter. It is the forced acceptance and societal equality status that is wrong-headed and compromises everyone’s morality.

    I don’t want my grand kids to think gay is as normal as straight and just as acceptable a lifestyle. It is not. If one finds himself/herself gay, he/she should not be discriminated against by society, but at the same time never touted as equally valid and good.

    If the state offers tax benefits to unions, however, any union should benefit equally. For an Christian churches to perform same sex marriages, they have already strayed from being Christian. Tolerance and compromise are two completely different attitudes.

  25. from last thread, poolman noted: “The collective fears mobs and quickly establishes departments and budgets are set up for these problems under the guise of security with no real plan to fix them, rather to best maintain and control them. It is the cold war, the war on poverty, the war on drugs, the war on crime, the war on terror (model) taking us into a state of perpetual war. A war against peace.”

    A war against peace. Jesus, poolman. Sometimes your insights just floor me.

  26. “in all likelihood, the farmer still bought the cat.”

    Exactly, because he realized the rats’ argument was not valid – a red herring. Ditto the, “they can marry women” argument. They don’t want to marry women.

    “…the use of semantics that they won. For instance, is it a baby? Or is it a product of conception, a zygote, an embryo, or fetus we are terminating?”

    Yep. Except I think that is a valid question. Nobody wants to kill a baby. I have a continuously increasing aversion to terminating a pregnancy as it moves further along, conversely a decreasing aversion as it is earlier and earlier. I think that is a reasonable position.

    “Suddenly, marriage has become a voluntary union of persons in a committed relationship rather than a union of a man and a woman. ”

    OK, I know how to settle this: By Doc’s decree: a “union” between a man and a woman is now called a farfalonus.

    Now, union-izing gay people and calling it “marriage” is no problem, since it’s a different word.

    See my point? IMHO, the problem is that folks think opposite-sex couples own that word, marriage. They don’t.

  27. Tex: ‘It much easier to justify homosexual “marriage” if marriage is really the union of persons in a committed and loving relationship, If that all marriage is, then why shouldn’t gay people be allowed to participate in this institution?’

    Indeed, why not?

    “Who could argue with that?”

    That’s certainly how I see it. BTW, that is NOT how I saw it ten, even five years ago.

    Also notice how by framing the issue in terms of a supposed “ban” on same-sex marriage, the proponents have altered the terms of the debate and done exactly what they did in the abortion debate by make the act of abortion a “choice.”’

    All valid POVs in my opinion. When there is no consensus, then let people make their own decisions. It’s not the govt’s place to interfere in those circumstances, IMHO, other than to make sure those people are not DEPRIVED of their choices.

  28. “If all that marriage is, then, why shouldn’t gay people be allowed to participate in this institution?” Pfessor 34.

    Then, why shouldn’t people be allowed to marry multiple partners as Muslims and some Mormons believe?

    I support gay marriage, but why not for others?

    I want to marry my car.

    I agree with your defense of Rick Perry, Rutherford.

    Baby made so much progress that her next appointment was canceled, and she won’t be examined again until next week. Her head has grown enough to put her on the third percentile of the chart.

  29. See my point? IMHO, the problem is that folks think opposite-sex couples own that word, marriage. They don’t.

    No, I don’t see your point at all. For 10,000 years, heterosexual couples have indeed owned the word marriage. The very definition of marriage by Webster’s current dictionary is:

    mar·riage
    /ˈmarij/
    Noun

    The formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife.

    So let me ask you. If the word marriage carries no differentiation or importance, why did you get reMARRIED? Do you call your wife, wife? If so, why not just call each other friends with benefits, or lover, or girlfriend, or something to that regard? Think about it before you answer.

    It’s not the govt’s place to interfere in those circumstances, IMHO, other than to make sure those people are not DEPRIVED of their choices.

    Neither is it the government’s place to redefine what has been clearly understood for many millennia and still understood by the vast majority of the globe as Hussein discovered day before yesterday in Africa.

    So why the need to redefine the word? Why the need to call homosexual unions marriage then? Why don’t homosexuals make up their own word to describe their “union” (no pun intended)?

    Because for 10,000 years, homosexual unions have never been defined as marriage. Ever. Any place that we know of. Not even ancient Greece and Rome.

    I don’t think you see the end game in the intent, Pfesser, though many of them have admitted their intent to destroy marriage and have a completely open society.

    And though this is only conjecture on my behalf, I think your own personal biases against the ‘sanctity of marriage’ would make you more an ally with the homosexual community for extraneous reasons. But I readily admit I can’t prove that.

    All you’re really doing is risking fracturing an already fractured country further. Nothing good will come of this. You watch…

  30. James: “Then, why shouldn’t people be allowed to marry multiple partners as Muslims and some Mormons believe?”

    Because it affects others. In humans the male/female ratio is 1:1, so when, for example in the Mormon religion, that ratio is upset, it leaves many young men without the ability to marry or have a family. THEY ARE VERY UNHAPPY and make those around them unhappy. That affects the whole of society. If Bill marries Sam, that affects nobody but them – and I would argue, LESSENS societal stresses, because they now have loving partners.

    I know five male couples and two lesbian couples; they live together, have homes and businesses. Their arrangement is not only stable, but I would argue, stabilizing to society, since they are happy and productive. However, if one of them gets sick or dies, even having lived and loved together for decades, the other has no more rights than a stranger walking in off the street.

    To my mind, it’s morally correct, but more important in some ways, it solves LEGAL problems that should be solved.

    And no, you can’t marry your car. The exhaust pipe is too small for you, Big Tool. LOL

  31. “The very definition of marriage by Webster’s current dictionary is:
    mar·riage
    /ˈmarij/
    Noun
    The formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife.”

    Expand the definition. Problem solved.

    “So let me ask you. If the word marriage carries no differentiation or importance,”

    I never said that. It’s very important. It’s also important to queer people, in my experience. Nobody likes to be an outsider – nobody.

    “why did you get reMARRIED?”

    Simple. It legitimizes our relationship, not only with friends/family, but w/regard to legalities. Queers, too, would like the opportunity to do the same thing you and I have done. Do you like being married? I sure do; maybe there are other human beings who would like to share in that joy.

    “Do you call your wife, wife?”

    All the time. Love it. I would expect gay folks would feel the same way.

    “If so, why not just call each other friends with benefits, or lover, or girlfriend, or something to that regard? Think about it before you answer.”

    Don’t need to think; it’s not that hard a question. See above.

    PF: ‘It’s not the govt’s place to interfere in those circumstances, IMHO, other than to make sure those people are not DEPRIVED of their choices.’

    “Neither is it the government’s place to redefine what has been clearly understood for many millennia and still understood by the vast majority of the globe as Hussein discovered day before yesterday in Africa.”

    For recorded history, it was very important to legitimize male/female unions and give them privileges, because survival of the species depended on it. That’s not so any more.

    “So why the need to redefine the word? Why the need to call homosexual unions marriage then? Why don’t homosexuals make up their own word to describe their “union” (no pun intended)?”

    Why should they have to? “Marriage” is a perfectly nice word. Why sexual apartheid – “separate but equal?” We all know where that leads; nobody is happy. Why not just expand the definition, not change it, to include gays? What’s the harm?

    “I don’t think you see the end game in the intent, Pfesser, though many of them have admitted their intent to destroy marriage…”

    Threatens? Where does that come from, anyway? How does it threaten marriage? What’s the threat? I repeat, Show me how someone else getting married does ANYTHING to, let alone threatens, your marriage.

  32. My bad. Tex did not say, “threatens.” He said, “destroy.” Replace threatens with destroys in the above.

  33. Neither is it the government’s place to redefine what has been clearly understood for many millennia and still understood by the vast majority of the globe as Hussein discovered day before yesterday in Africa.

    Did you ever read Orwell? I think you misunderstand government. It is a war of words and has been the exact purpose of this and every government of note to do just that. Redefine. Why do you think there are so many lawyers?

    Marriages are not all about sex. Marriages are joinings of individuals as a group of at least two to strengthen both or all. Christians are considered the bride of Christ. We await the wedding feast when we are joined to Christ in marriage. Christ is our all, high priest, Lord, brother, first love, strength, guide, teacher, example, daily bread, breath, purpose, and God, so in essence we become as one. Like the marriage of two humans which God, in Their being, ordained in the male and female realms. A real yin yan effect, making as one. Whole. It’s a sacred merger.

    But then you also have men and women called to be celibate. That is considered a gift and above the man/woman marriage. Once you’ve experienced the überwunder of sex, how could you give it up?

    The physical attributes do not always reflect the personality. That is why it is not too uncommon for girls to find themselves in men’s bodies and vice versa. Other species have dominant females and passive males. There are some that can change to allow procreation. In an overpopulated world, same sex may be a natural means to reduce or maintain population. We truly give it more weight than nature would apply.

    Society has distorted the influences and demonized many innocent attitudes. Deviancy and sexual abuse has also plagued our culture and is a generational curse, much of it has gone from the shadows to play out in mainstream. Those that practice deviancy strive to promote it as norm so as to avoid persecution.

    Moral decay. It’s not about equality or tolerance. It’s about compromising our moral ethics. One chip at a time.

    Chip, chip, chip…

  34. Expand the definition. Problem solved.

    Threatens? Where does that come from, anyway? How does it threaten marriage? What’s the threat? I repeat, Show me how someone else getting married does ANYTHING to, let alone threatens, your marriage.

    Specious analogy. Homosexuals could marry their dog and it wouldn’t threaten MY MARRIAGE. That’s not the argument.

    I repeat, it makes the definition meaningless as James absolutely right that we could continue to expand the definition of marriage under the guise of rights to marry whomever or whatever we wanted. The etymology of marriage is a very specific definition and has been since the creation of the word. It has always been a complementary union of one and one woman.

    You’ve seen what has happened as we have expanded the role and definition of government. Same rule applies. 😉

    Simple. It LEGITIMIZES our relationship, not only with friends/family, but w/regard to legalities. AND CHILDREN. And it provides the nurturing structure EVOLUTION has dictated most healthy for continuation of the species, etc…We don’t need to debate this for it is all that has ever existed in human history.

    Legitimize being the key word there.

    See Pfesser, if I were to extrapolate out all that you’ve talked about here for a couple of years, I think it would be safe to assume that your guided by the physical nature of laws and nothing more. Right? Natures laws are ultimate and infinite.

    Somehow nature has decided that of the human children born, 50.2% of them would be boys and 49.8% of them would be girls, with boys suffering higher rates of neonatal death. Now if we consider only the sexual gametes, there should be far less boys than girls over an extended period of time but somehow “nature” in its infinite wisdom throws in that additional .4% of boys to balance the scale, so to speak. It would appear to me, whether you allow for God or simply nature, we were all marked for not only continuation by birth, but a one to one relationship of male and female to assure survival.

    However, if Rutherford wishes to revert back to nature, we know for a fact that the bottleneck of the species is the female. Researchers estimate that we now have four times the deer in the United States as our Founders discovered. To control the population, excluding the occasional exceptions, we could perpetuate the species by killing exclusively ‘bucks’. I’m reasonably sure I could (or could have once upon a time without intervention) impregnated four females to cover my own base.

    But for whatever reason, “nature” dictates that’s not the best way to assure survival of the human species.

    You seem to invoke nature when required and “feelings” when convenient from my vantage point. It seems inconsistent in your logic.

    But to prove my point about the ultimate purpose of this argument, I offer Exhibit #1:

  35. Ha Ha Pfessor. I guess I could install a funnel.

    You make a good point, but what about old people? Women tend to live longer than men, and we have a surplus of older women. One of the original rationals supporting multiple Mormon wives was to support unmarried women who in those days had more trouble fending for themselves than they do now.

    How would polygamy upset the social order when so many women would be otherwise unmarried? I know one way, but I am just having fun with this.

  36. “it makes the definition meaningless”

    No it doesn’t. It expands it.

    “as James absolutely right that we could continue to expand the definition of marriage under the guise of rights to marry whomever or whatever we wanted”

    We could, but we’re not. Nobody is proposing anything beyond that we simply expand the current definition to include gay folks, nothing else. When someone proposes marrying inanimate objects or other species, call me. (I want to watch!)

    “The etymology of marriage is a very specific definition and has been since the creation of the word. It has always been a complementary union of one and one woman.”

    Times change.

    “It LEGITIMIZES our relationship, not only with friends/family, but w/regard to legalities. AND CHILDREN. And it provides the nurturing structure, etc…”

    So then, we should not ever allow men to marry women over 40, since they can’t have children…sorry, that dog don’t hunt…

    To my eye there are many purposes of marriage; children are one, but not the ONLY one. Giving life partners certain LEGAL rights is another, so is fulfilling the human desire to have one’s relationship officially certified by society as valid. There are others.

    ” …if I were to extrapolate out all that you’ve talked about here for a couple of years, I think it would be safe to assume that your guided by the physical nature of laws and nothing more. Right?”

    Wrong. You don’t always need “nature” – whatever that is – to validate your laws.

    But if you want to go down that path, you should remember that “nature” invented queers, and keeps them coming, year after year, so they are as much a part of nature as you and I. “Nature” must have found some value in them.

    “You seem to invoke nature when required and “feelings” when convenient from my vantage point. It seems inconsistent in your logic.”

    I think you are mistaken.

    Your video is interesting, but as we all know, you can find anything you want to support any POV you want.

    I come back to beating the same old drum: The anti-gay-marriage folks keep talking about how it will destroy “traditional” marriage. I don’t see it. If we straight folks haven’t been able to destroy it with all our shenanigans, I don’t think a few queers threaten it very much. We have plenty of real fish to fry; this defeat of DOMA is a non-event IMHO.

  37. Pfesser, I could send you a hundred more videos like the one provided but it would never be enough. It’s intellectually dishonest on your behalf, but I’ve come to expect that.

    As my friends and I discussed today, the revolution won’t be people heading to the streets with guns. The revolution happens when the people who have been following the rules simply quit obeying the federal government and refuse to even recognize it anymore. No offense, but there will be little you liberated types waving the flag can do about it.

    I also believe that is why Obama and the liberals are frantically trying to “radically transform” the country, why our government buying billions of rounds of ammunition, why events like smothering debt and failed schools ignored.

    What you see in Egypt could very much happen here. Anyone besides the predictable mannequin Rutherford think Obama would hesitate to declare martial law if he personally felt threatened?

    The ruling class is fearing that a large part of us are starting to discover that we can live just fine without intervention from the federal government and don’t really require a great degree of assistance from anything but states in general proximity. Water, food, energy – we got what we need. And to be honest, most benefit done at the local level.

    Why should we care what people in Chicago, IL, demand or for that matter what the SCOTUS dictates to us?

  38. Thomas Freidman discussed Brazilian, Russian, and Egyptian street protests and cited the Tea Party and Occupy Wall Street as examples of how social media enhances protests and can convert them to revolutions.

    The Estonian Singing Revolution began in 1987, and soon Latvia and Lithuanea joined the peaceful and sometimes armed resistance. By 1988 crowds in Estonia had grown from 10,000 to over 300,000. In 1989 over two million Estonians, Latvians and Lithuanians joined hands along a 600Km stretch connecting the three capitals. It continued until 1991 when Estonian leaders declared the nation independent.as Soviet tanks prowled the countryside to stop the revolution. Iceland was the first country to recognize their independence.

    We could do the same here. Only a spark is needed–something like 45, the latest Obamacare development.

  39. James, can you hook me up with the Tom Friedman article?

    Thanks

    Tex – “It’s intellectually dishonest on your behalf, but I’ve come to expect that.”

    Look, let’s shitcan the personal stuff. We just disagree and it’s no more complicated than that.

    “As my friends and I discussed today, the revolution won’t be people heading to the streets with guns. The revolution happens when the people who have been following the rules simply quit obeying the federal government and refuse to even recognize it anymore. No offense, but there will be little you liberated types waving the flag can do about it.”

    None taken; I’ll match my skills against most; in a revolution – which I have to say I expect, myself – somebody has to die – might be me, but, hell, that’s how it goes. I was dead a million years before I was born and suffered no great inconvenience from it; I expect afterward to be no different.

  40. The state means nothing to my marriage. I “asked” the Bishop (to be married to a Lutheran in a Lutheran church) , not Nanny. Theologically, I can’t even get a divorce, so the State doesn’t even serve that purpose. A marriage bond can’t be dissolved by the State, even if the State gives me a secular one in court. How can I get a divorce when my marriage is true? It’s like a triangle with four angles.

  41. Look, let’s shitcan the personal stuff. We just disagree and it’s no more complicated than that.

    Oh no. This issue way more complicated than two opinions and its ramifications of you not even giving consideration, just like misandrists did with abortion 40 years ago, all of its promises laid to waste as the justification based on lies of 55MM legalized abortions later exposed for all to see. The assurances of children wanted, the betterment of women by bra burning feminists, ‘choice’, back alley abortions, misandrist attorneys using illiterate plaintiffs as pawns. Times do indeed change and 40 years later, the results in – grotesque.

    I’m not going to let you get away with that without making an argument and demonstration of just how wrongheaded I believe you are to soothe your personal sensitivities. You interjected yourself into this argument by disagreeing with me, and I have every right to defend my position without being demeaned.

    I just presented proof of exactly what I was saying is the real dogma of gay marriage, verbatim to a stand ovation, and you attempted to marginalize the proof by discounting just another something found on the internet.

    That’s intellectually dishonest, Pfesser, if all you can provide in return is your opinion. That hideous woman is one of America’s most renown LGBT activists and actually one of the original LGBT founders as the video provided.

    Spare me the hero badass talk. No one will be pointing the gun at you, me least likely of all, or is questioning your talents from my side. I just said this will not be a revolution of guns, did I not? I believe the word was churlish…

  42. Tex – I’m sorry you choose to base your opinion of queers on a far-out nutcase like Masha Gessen, but of course, painting gays as monsters is very helpful to your argument, isn’t it?

    Unfortunately for you, you have also encountered someone (me) with a large number of gay friends and acquaintances and decades of friendship with them and – other than being queer – all are just capital fellows and gals, and I like them very much. I’ll match those decades of experience against your carefully-selected single video of (one) Ms. Gessen any day, thankyouverymuch. Ms. Gessen in no way represents the “typical” queer, is dismissed, and that is all there is to that line of argument. Find somebody else; you and I both know she is the gross exception. (Intellectual dishonesty? Was it you who used that term?)

    Any hero badass talk is in your head. I simply pointed out that – whatever this country devolves to – and I expect it to be VERY bad – I have more resources to bring to bear than anybody I know, most of which is knowledge, but, yes, if it comes to shooting, I can do that too. And most of all, I’m willing. No brag, just fact. – (HT to Walter Brennan)

  43. Whenever I hear the name “Walter Brennan,” all I can think of is this… (start at 2:45)

    It actually kind of goes along with the current discussion, now that I think of it. 😉

  44. “Democrats rammed through Obama’s “big fucking deal” in order to see what was in it.” -Huck

    Isn’t it pathetic?

  45. Pfessor, Google News for Omaha world herald or maybe Omaha.com if that doesn’t work. Thomas L. Friedman Street Revolts louder, more powerful,

  46. I thought Hot Air raised some good points regarding Obama’s mandate move today.

    —Do we think President Obama knew about the delay in the employer mandate or did he have to wait to find out about it when Air Force One landed back in America and he could get a newspaper in front of him?

    —Isn’t Obama just leaving the little guy out to dry by waiving a mandate for employers, who have an organized lobby, but leaving it in place for individuals?

    —Since we’re “already seeing benefits of Obamacare,” and the rest is so dangerous to the economy we’re delaying it, why do we need the rest?

    —Isn’t it the White House that’s interfering with implementation, now?

    —By Obama’s definition, did the White House just do an end-around Congress to limit women’s access to birth control? Without employer mandate penalties being enforced, will the administration also be declining to enforce penalties on employers who don’t provide free birth control? Or, is that lobby not powerful enough to get a waiver?

    —Is there any plausible way this is not a pretty devastating admission of Obamcare’s failures?

    And Ace of Spades raises a good point, too.

    —If Obama can change the law by whim according to his political needs by unilateral executive action, doesn’t that mean that a conservative president can do so as well?

    Which basically means…if Obama can choose not to enforce PART of Obamacare, can’t a GOP president choose not to enforce ANY of it?

  47. As the Egyptian military prepares to oust Morsi, and perhaps the entire Muslim Brotherhood, I am reminded of Noah railing on about how stupid it was to give tanks and jets to “our enemies” in Egypt, and me telling him they’d be more apt to use them inside of their borders than against anyone outside their borders..

    Here is what the Egyptian military has to say today. “We swear by God that we are ready to sacrifice our blood for Egypt and its people against any terrorist, extremist or fool.”

    Obama’s response to recent events was to call Morsi and tell him to try to work it out…and that if the military intervened, he would cut of aid to Egypt.

    The Syrian rebels he is aiding in the overthrow of Assad were not available for comment.

  48. Re Huck

    Oil is going through the roof tonight. I swear its a great opportunity.

    I might buy puts on the OIL etn. tommrow.

    Egypt produces none but moves a lot through Suez. So what?

    Either this shit will die down or there will be a militery coup (which I think would be awesome for America).

    There is no way this thing is literally going to spill into the Suez Canal.

    OIL Aug 2013 strike 22.000 put (OIL130817P00022000) -OPR for .35 cents.

    As for the questions on Obamacare’s obvious failure, it’s the epitome of a cluster fuck. . Just like we all said it would be. MASSIVE CLUSTERFUCK.

    My favorite question you listed was the fact that Presidents can apparently just ignore it ad hoc. Hilarious.

    What a failure this President as been. I swear, I knew it would be bad…..but, did you think it would be THIS bad?

    His signiture legislation…..his only real success outside OBL……is a disaster. Add 15 scandals….some of them historically serious, spending akin to WW II, horrible unemployment, the least transparent president of all time, failed stimuls, powder keg in the Middle East, powder keg in every black neighborhood, Russia has deployed nuke subs again and..rrrrrrrrabit drum roll….oil is at 102 bucks a Biatch as I type.

    Stock market addicted to QE. His claim to fame. Pop goes the weasel.

  49. Pfesser, with all due respect about guns, you forget where I am from where even the women can out shoot most men across this nation. I’m not impressed with the braggadocio. It’s been my experience when someone has to tell you that they’re really good, they aren’t.

    Do you honestly think a couple of pistols from a “real” marksman are going to stop rifles with scopes that drop 1,200lbs elk dead at 200 yards?

    If you’re going to pick a fight, make sure your swinging dick is big enough to match the mule dick you’ll be facing on the other end if push comes to shove.Just a bit of advice from a shared comrade at a blog.

    By the way? Poll are out. 62% of Texans support the Lt. Governors bring back restrictions on abortion. Your side polled in at a whopping 27% for Wendy, the new heroine. 😉

  50. Huck…

    Which basically means…if Obama can choose not to enforce PART of Obamacare, can’t a GOP president choose not to enforce ANY of it?

    In conjunction with my ongoing debate with Pfesser today…of which I’ll assume he agreed with at least this much since that wasn’t part of the give and take…

    Absolutely. But I’ve got an even better idea about federal intervention and not waiting for the next election.

    I say the states simply act as if there were no such thing as Obamacare. When Obama threatens removal of Medicare and Medicaid, states need to be prepared to simply tell the geriatrics – sorry. President Obama has yanked your funding.

    See how long that lasts…

    And businesses when threatened tell Mr. Obama, Okay. We will no longer make automated payroll deductions then. Collect your own FICA.

    Time to bring D.C. to its knees. We could do it starting tomorrow if millions would band together.

  51. You can tell it isn’t an election year because Obama did just pull the rug out from under every woman wanting to get her contraception covered by her Obamacare-mandated employer insurance…and you’re not hearing a word about his war on women.

    On a similar note…Obama just appointed evil millionaire offshore account-holder Mitt Romney as Commerce Secretary.

    Oh wait…did I say Mitt Romney? I meant evil billionaire offshore account-holder…and Obama donor…Penny Pritzker. My bad. How could I have made such a mistake, when she is more than 7 times richer than that scumbag moneybags Romney?

    And where is the election year leftist outrage over these things?

  52. Your’e right, Tex. We don’t have rifles here in Virginia. They only sold them to Okies.

    Kill an elk at 200 yds? That’s a joke, right? What the hell kind of equipment did they sell you Okie goobers, cap pistols? I can throw a round that far. Self-respecting groundhog hunters don’t even tell stories that begin below 350 yards, and an elk’s nutsack is bigger than a groundhog.

    Do you really know anything about guns?

  53. Several of us have noted that if we did what environmentalists want to impose millions of people would die or be consigned to poverty and malnutrition.

    President Obama knows this too. He told an audience in Kenya that everyone wants houses, cars, and air conditioning, but if everyone gets them we will fry the planet. We must deny them such things until we have new environmentally sound sources of power.

    In other words. I’ve got mine.

  54. Tex – Dan Savage. Nice cherry-picking. Again. The ultra-militant guy who co-opted Senator Rick Santorum’s last name to describe:

    santorum. n. The frothy mixture of lube and fecal matter that is sometimes the by-product of anal sex.

    Still #2 on Google if you search on santorum, by the way.

    Whats the matter? Couldn’t find any child molesters, ax-murderers, Falwell supporters, things like that? So now we’re down to Dan Savage? These picks represent mainstream queer-dom? Like, perhaps, Ted Bundy and Aileen Wuornos represent the typical straight couple?

    “Intellectually dishonest?” Wasn’t it you who used that term to describe others?

    This has gotten beyond ridiculous. Next topic.

    James – good take on Obama’s message to his half-brethren. “I’ve got mine.”

  55. “If you’re going to pick a fight, make sure your swinging dick is big enough to match the mule dick you’ll be facing on the other end if push comes to shove.”

    Mmmm out of context I could see this being Tex’s advice to Trayvon. 🙂

  56. Speaking of Trayvon, I think the prosecution may finally have produced a good witness. A doctor said yesterday that Z’s head lacerations are not evidence of MULTIPLE head pounds against concrete. In fact she said the cuts could have resulted from one impact.

    On another note, a question for my gun toting friends here. When you carry a pistol in public do you keep the safety on or off? I ask this because some legal commentator suggested last night that whether or not Zimmerman had his safety on when he got out of his car is relevant. I didn’t know what to make of this since I don’t know whether most gun carriers keep the safety off when they’re carrying.

  57. I would assume Z had a semi-auto. In that case, you need to keep a round in the barrel, ready to fire and you HAVE to keep the safety on, unless the gun has an external hammer that you can place in the half-cock position. Otherwise, anything that touches the trigger will fire the gun. The other possibility is to not keep a round in the barrel, but in that case you have to work the slide to cock it. Both situations are a real problem if you need your gun in a hurry, which in my experience is the only way you ever need it.

    I carry a .38 Special revolver. It has less ultimate firepower, holding only six rounds, but it is double-action. That means to fire it, I have to either cock the hammer – in which case the trigger is easy to pull – or with the hammer in the relaxed position, in which case the trigger is much harder to pull and has to be pulled a long distance, cocking the hammer in the process. I like the revolver because I never have to futz with anything. If the shit hits the fan, I can just pull the trigger. I also keep the chamber under the firing pin empty, just in case I would drop the thing on a hard surface, although supposedly it won’t fire without the trigger fully depressed.

    Hope that’s not too confusing.

    Here is a decent explanation:

    http://voices.yahoo.com/should-choose-revolver-semi-automatic-pistol-11624950.html?cat=15

  58. Gorilla,

    Pfesser is a liar and blowhard. He doesn’t know any more about guns than he does about Texas – obviously.

    He’s got illusions of being Marshall Dillon.

    His most strenuous activity has been riding bikes with his wife.

  59. I can throw a round that far.

    Really? Well, that’s amazing. Because I played collegiate ball as centerfielder, rightfielder and shortstop, generally considered the positions requiring the best arms on the team (short of pitcher and catcher), got clocked about 90 on a gun, and doubt on my best day I could throw a hundred yards.

    I think you’re full of shit… 😛

  60. “A doctor said yesterday that Z’s head lacerations are not evidence of MULTIPLE head pounds against concrete. In fact she said the cuts could have resulted from one impact. ” -R

    You thought that was compelling? Dude has a broken nose and an eye witness who walked out of his out and looked to find Trayvon reining blows on Z.

    Repeat….guy walked out of his house and say Trayvon pounding the shit out of Zimmerman.

    And the fact that the Prosecution found a doctor who said its “possible” that his head only hit the concrete once instead of many times is a game changer for you?

  61. I’m a revolver man myself. No thinking. Squeeze the trigger and kill somebody or don’t. Respect the weapon at all times.

  62. “And the fact that the Prosecution found a doctor who said its “possible” that his head only hit the concrete once instead of many times is a game changer for you?”

    And on cross admitted multiple strikes were possible as well.

    What a joke.

  63. DR, how do like the prosecution’s use of the term “profiling” in lieu of a “racist” which they have no evidence to support and are too cowardly to even say knowing what bullshit it is?

  64. The prosecution also produced a witness who, on cross, said he thought Zimmerman was telling the truth. The prosecution didn’t move to have his statements ignored by the jury until the next day.

    Joke is right. This is a friggen clown show.

  65. Profiling black men in America is like Israeli security profiling Imams at the Tel Aviv airport…necessary and statistically compelling to do so. You’re an utter moron if you don’t.

    The Revvverend Je$$e Jackson and Bill Cosby have both admitted they profile:

    Black Men.

  66. Huck, I’m wondering if these prosecutors are really that incompetent, or perhaps more likely possibly thinking the same thing we are?

    “High tech racial lynching…” of a man defending himself from what is clearly a thumper from the hood.

    I can most certainly understand why Tigre so passionate about this trial. We agreed a year ago the charge of 2nd degree murder was so ludicrous, it should be mocked.

    Sadly, I have such little faith in my fellow American’s clarity anymore concerning everything from politics and demagoguery to show trials, and not interjecting “their shallow feelings” and treating life as an 3-ring circus, I wouldn’t bet against George Zimmerman being found guilty.

    Yesterday in Texas, the Wendy Davis crowd was yelling ‘Hail Satan.’

    No wonder the Dimocraticd demanded God be left out of their platform.

  67. Great company you’re keeping down there in Texas, Pfesser. Fabulous!!! My preference is the small children holding wire hangers. What’s yours?

  68. Unconfirmed reports that Morsi under house arrest, army takeover of state-media, military vehicles en route to pro-Morsi rallies.

    Looks like Egypt’s military coup is underway.

  69. “with smiling Barack leading from behind.”

    Oh, he’s leading from the front…

    …in his support of Morsi.

    After all…all Morsi has done is unconstitutional grabs for power. That’s just another average day in the life of Barack Obama.

  70. “…in his support of Morsi.”

    Precisely.

    Somehow though this will become one of Barack’s major accomplishments.

  71. Speaking of accomplishments, it isn’t as though Obama hid his intent to pass health care legislation when he ran in ’08. He ran on it. He accomplished the clusterfuck he promised he would render.

    But it’s a start.

    (PS…zinger lifted from Tigre’s quiver.)

  72. “Speaking of accomplishments, it isn’t as though Obama hid his intent to pass health care legislation when he ran in ’08. He ran on it. He accomplished the clusterfuck he promised he would render. ”

    He also ran on the promise to put energy producers out of business and enact policies that make energy costs increase. And he is accomplishing that, too.

    Its amazing how all of these shit sandwiches are supposed to taste good.

  73. ”Yesterday in Texas, the Wendy Davis crowd was yelling ‘Hail Satan.’ “

    I did see a video of some of this. But I’m sure those people are the exception.

    Like I said, without even so much as winning a single debate on a blog…

    Screw marriage, they want it. My gay friends and family members are nice people too.

    Screw Zimmerman. We don’t want riots. Appease. Lock him up. Put him next to the filmmaker responsible for Benghazi.

    Screw the gun control debate. Whatever it takes to control guns and gun owners, they’ll figure out a way. They don’t need your concession.

    Screw the abortion debate. It’s over. Doc and Rutherford and lori won. Without even so much as winning a single debate on a blog. Shoot Rutherford can’t even support his own hypothesis because he’s restraining himself and too busy to chat while Doc assumes the victory stance. All hail.

    I don’t give a fuck anymore either.

  74. Huck, it comes down to your last paragragh in #17. Most gay folks just want to be happy and most of us don’t want to deny them that.

    Unfortunately this could all be headed just where Tex says it could.

    But I’ll tell you all something, one bible thumping mama I know when told by her son that he was gay sat quitely for a few moments and then asked him in a shaky voice, ” are you moving away?” I’ll never forget it.

  75. And when they asked Billy Graham is his kid was gay would he still love him, he answered, “I would love him more.”

  76. Re: clarity lacking in #101 –

    I was being sarcastic when I said I’m sure those people are the exception.

    I also switched topics going from the retread on abortion last thread to the current dead end on gay marriage. My bad. I suppose I couldn’t wait to say I just didn’t give a fuck anymore.

  77. “Unfortunately this could all be headed just where Tex says it could.”

    That’s true. It could.

    It is just as easy to say “but it won’t.”

    Neither is really an argument for or against something.

    All I know is that in a society that claims to respect freedom, it isn’t cool to deny people the freedom to do something that doesn’t hurt anyone else. Some want to argue that allowing gays to marry redefines their own marriage. I don’t believe that. Mine and my wife’s feelings and actions define my marriage…NOTHING else.

    I absolutely respect opposing concerns on this issue. I just don’t share them.

  78. “DR, how do like the prosecution’s use of the term “profiling” in lieu of a “racist” which they have no evidence to support and are too cowardly to even say knowing what bullshit it is?” -T

    It scares me to see the state “insinuate” anything. They shouldn’t behave that way.

  79. “It is just as easy to say “but it won’t.” “

    Is it? I’m not finding it all that easy. In fact, it seems like the first lawsuit against the church for discrimination is an inevitability. You say you wouldn’t be for that but it won’t matter. Not when the nation’s business is conducted in the manner in which we are becoming way too accustomed to in a very short period of time.

    “Neither is really an argument for or against something.”

    As long as this goes for the abortion “debate” as well, then I agree. The problem is – it doesn’t.

    “it isn’t cool to deny people the freedom to do something that doesn’t hurt anyone else.”

    The right to do something or to call it something?

    Bah, it’s a circle.

  80. “Is it? I’m not finding it all that easy. In fact, it seems like the first lawsuit against the church for discrimination is an inevitability.”

    I misunderstood what you were referring to. On that part of what Tex said, I am not so sure it wouldn’t at least try to happen.

    In my opinion (and I don’t say it like this to insult anyone), organized religion is like a club. If you (as in anyone) don’t like the rules, don’t join. It isn’t up to the club to change its rules for you. So in this case, the answer is to protect the freedom of the club to deny performing acts that are against its rules, not to protect the freedom of people to force the club to change its rules. Because the latter is not freedom.

    But that doesn’t mean we should scrap the whole idea of gay marriage. Marriage doesn’t need to be done in a church to be legal. People are still free to go elsewhere. And I am sure, with a little effort, a church could be found that would do it.

  81. All I know is that in a society that claims to respect freedom, it isn’t cool to deny people the freedom to do something that doesn’t hurt anyone else.

    Ah, but it does, Huck. It hurts all of us, gays included. Love, freedom, liberty all are first based on truth. I can appreciate your discomfort with people like me – to the best of my knowledge, we don’t have one homosexual in any part of my family, extended family included. No doubt, a blood relationship would make your choice more difficult.

    I’ll give you an analogy where I think society finds itself today concerning acceptability of homosexuality. Do good parents discipline their children and teach them in the ways they should follow? Do they provide boundaries and definition? Or do good parents let their children do what they wish in the name of tolerance and love?

    Who makes the better parent?

    Tell you this much – ask an instructor which child he would rather instruct in a public school.

    Marriage is the most definitive, long standing institution in human history. Nothing even comes close to long standing tenets as the vow of marriage. Tear it down and redefine it, you can justify interpreting or redefining anything else. I can tie virtually every problem in America today to failed marriages. Every one of them.

    You can’t continue to coarsen the culture, redefine acceptable norms of behavior, watch the culture dissolve, and then excuse the things that have coarsened it as having nothing to do with what ails us. That’s not liberty or freedom – that’s chaos and anarchy.

    Racism, infanticide, indoctrination posing as teaching, even the Constitution can all be twisted to mean what we want it to mean in the name of a perverted form of tolerance.

    This is were I think most people have lost sight of why America is so much trouble. We want to blame men like Barack Obama for what ails us.

    But Barack Obama is only the caricature, the end result. What got us there is in the inability to distinguish good from evil and right from wrong by millions of moral relativists, many believing they are operating under the guise of love, freedom, liberty.

    Contrary to how people what to frame this, I don’t hate most gay people. And I know a bunch of gay people. Four of my classmates, three of whom I went to school with since second grade are dead from AIDS. One of them was a childhood friend.

    However, I recognize homosexuality is completely abnormal behavior. Frankly, homosexuality is nothing short of mental illness and until we became “liberated”, was medically defined as such.

    You can’t normalize abnormality and then not suffer some consequence, Huck. And sooner or later, it touches all of us.

  82. 101, I still care Muffy.

    Zero Hedge has a guest post by Jim Quinn of the Burning Platform blog showing ” 15 photos from Tahrir Square Protests You’ll never See in Legacy Media.”

    One sign is “Obama you jerk. Muslim Brotherhoods are killing the Egyptians so how come they can guarantee you the security of Israel Hey Obama your deal with the Muslim Brotherhood is unsuccessful

    Obama you idiot. Keep in mind that Egypt is not Muslim brotherhoods and if you don’t believe that go and see what’s happening in Tahrir Square Now.

    “Ann Patterson. You and your country can go to Hell”

    Obama your bitch is our dictator.”

    In 2011, Obama said Mubarak must go. Now, he says its not our job to choose Egypt’s leaders. This is another phase of the policy which killed our men in Benghazi.

    Obama’s policy is as far from the right side of history as the pro choicers are in Texas. They cannot support late term abortions so they use intimidation and threats as the unionists did in Wisconsin. It is falling apart.

  83. I’m sorry, Tex, but I just don’t see where (lack of?) truth or bad parenting have anything to do with homosexuality.

    Those are human qualities that are not exclusive to gay people.

    I am going to have to agree that we disagree.

    But I will leave you with this question to ponder…would you rather a child be aborted or adopted by a homosexual couple?

  84. I think society is much more in danger of decay from the psychopaths. You guys know them mostly as politicians, but they have infiltrated more than mere politics into the top levels of power and the most influential institutions and most of these folks are not out of the closet with it.

  85. @ Huck #69… I love it!

    As for Egypt I think I have a different take than the folks here. I actually find Obama an idiot,which to a degree puts me on the same page as some here. I think the military making this move is NOT good for Egypt. Although I disagree with the MB it is in fact what Egypts first democratic election put in place. This one year what the hell we want perfection stuff does not bode well for Egypts future and that is something folks should care about. Basically Egypt is going in one of two directions in my opinion. #1 is a bumpy rode to a Sadat/Mubarak deja vu thing. Perhaps Pakistan can offer a picture vis a vis Mushareff. #2 is even worse. The embittered and scorned MB is put make in full opposition mode,folks it isn’t like they are unlikes by a big chunk of the locals. Either way an expansion of tensions and potential conflict is clearly imaginable.
    I suppose I could say there is a scenario #3 which will find the military’s roadmap awesome and credible and a technocracy flourishes. If this happens I think one future headline will read China buys Suez…

  86. Africa will see an economic rise and they will use dollars for the ride;however,let’s not kid ourselves that Yuan/remnibi is really the driver in the sub Sahara

  87. re VRA case. God I hate liberals. I saw a Doonesbury today starring “Jimmy Crow”. For fucks sake folks although I’ll gladly join arms to prevent “national ID” schemes some form of credible proof of identity and legality is totally reasonable for voting,public benefits etc.

  88. I agree with Alfie. i believe the military is taking over because it tends to be more secular than the Muslim Brotherhood and other extremists. The economy has also suffered. Obama has miscalculated and this is another part of his foreign policy failure which will be costly. The Keystone Pipeline is looking even better.

  89. @ Huck primarily… not for nothing but I think you’d concede there are elements amongst any group that care more about an agenda than the truth. The gay community is great evidence of this. There are those pushing points just to push,nothing less.

  90. @ rutherford…
    I read an interesting article today that made a very interesting two prong case with a focus on NYPD “stop & frisk”.
    Stats supposedly show that NYC has had a definite impact on illegal firearm activity whereas Chicago….not so much to be polite. Could stop & frisk or some other aggressive proactive policing procedure be just what Chi-town needs?
    On another note NYPD S&F has taken some dings in court and the city could find itself facing an LAPD money sucking strangulation thing to appease the uber libbies. The LAPD case was controlled by Holder btw. Great legacy.

  91. Not to earn an ObamaPail®™ but BHO has really just upped the longstanding D.C. failure rate regards Africa and South America.
    It is a great motivator for my adoption of spheric views of global politics. We are missing a great opportunity to bolster Western Hemisphere positions,trade & security (more prosperity than military) and we’re clearly missing a chance to be part of the equation in a number of nations that offer trade bonanzas.

  92. One interesting takeaway regards the Mosi overthrow. Assad of all people is on record stating vocal support of it highlighting how this marks an end to Islamic governance. (hope his friends in Tehran and Gaza don’t mind the article too much)
    I wonder though if there is something to be gleaned form this regards the one-sided nature of Syria Civil War reporting. We are supporting some radical fuckers.

  93. I’m sorry, Tex, but I just don’t see where (lack of?) truth or bad parenting have anything to do with homosexuality.

    I think you missed the point of my analogy, Huck. That or there is always that infinitely remote possibility that I did a poor job of explaining what I meant. 😛

    Gayness doesn’t have anything to do with bad parenting. I’m talking about lenient parents thinking anything goes instead of raising their children without restriction.

    Which one is generally the better parent? And why?

    I can make the same comparison of a lenient society where anything goes. And it just about does.

    Your point was homosexuality doesn’t hurt anybody. My point was indirectly, it hurts everybody. I can prove it.

    HIV is but one of many diseases that have spread into the general population the last 40-50 years, predominately spread into the general population through homosexuality once the the blood borne was cleared. You can throw in with AIDS intravenous sharing of needles. But HIV was and is still predominately a homosexual disease.

    Do you have any idea how many billions of dollars was conducted in research trying to combat the HIV/AIDS? The amount disputed, but it has been estimated between $150 billion – $500 billion was spent on research and treatment. Why are we worried about smoking then?

    Now. What kills more people. Cancer and heart disease? Or AIDS? Guess which one garnered far more of the scare resources for research from about 1982 – 2002? Not even close…

    Add to the fact the following diseases are spreading through the gay community at rates far exceeding the general populace: (1) MRSA, (2) Antibiotic resistant syphillis, (3) Antibiotic resistant gonorrhea, (4) Hepatitis, (5) Anal cancer just to name a few.

    I won’t even mention the shortened lifespans found in the gay community.

    Guess which lifestyle lends itself far and away to the healthiest and longest lifespan? A hint or two; monogamous/married. 😉

  94. AIDS can be spread by heterosexual sex, as well. And while homosexuals, in general, are more promiscuous and disease spreading, I don’t think there is anything to suggest that those in a homosexual marriage are or would be. Without being willing or able to dig up any potential research on the subject, I would posit the speculation that legalized gay marriage might decrease the promiscuity.

    Remember, this debate isn’t about the legalization of homosexuality, but about homosexual marriage. Keeping gay marriage illegal hasn’t done anything to curb those problems you mentioned. So why should we assume gay marriage would make them worse?

    I have yet to read anything presented here that says legalizing gay marriage hurts anyone else, other than the argument that it redefines someone else’s marriage, which is a premise I reject.

  95. I have yet to read anything presented here that says legalizing gay marriage hurts anyone else, other than the argument that it redefines someone else’s marriage, which is a premise I reject.

    You and I are one thing apart – and it has always been that way. And that difference irreconcilable about anything of importance. On this particular subject, I find you both blind and deaf. Without morality and truth Huck, America is nothing. It’s finished and without divine intervention which we most certainly don’t deserve, it won’t be coming back.

    Unlike Pfesser who means to offend, I hold no personal animus toward you. But neither do I want to be a part of our supposed shared birthright as you read it.

    On this 4th of July for the first time in my adult life, I will not be celebrating Independence Day and I have little love for this country or allegiance to it. Frankly, America disgusts me anymore and I find myself rooting against it. I never thought I would say that.

    That’s how far I’ve sunk – and it ain’t just Barack Obama.

  96. Huck @ 126. Exactly. The argument is not about homosexuality, although, when unable to mount a successful argument against gay marriage, the attempt is always made to change the subject to what is, for lack of a better word, homophobes’ REAL issue: dislike of homosexuality itself.

    The two issues always brought forth are that 1)”nature” intended for folks to have children and 2) allowing gays to marry, by some unknown mechanism, hurts hetero marriage, this sacred institution. (Which, so far, has been treated by heterosexuals as anything BUT sacred.) In arguing the issue of gay marriage before the Supreme Court, Ted Olson, who was actually Solicitor General under GW Bush, easily sliced those arguments to ribbons.

    Are there going to be gay divorces? Accusations of spousal cheating? Sure; being queer doesn’t make one suddenly any more perfect than straight folks.

    Queers are not going to go away; “nature” ensures that there is a never-ending supply of gay people. The question is whether society is going to exclude them or include, and allow these human beings to participate in the benefits of what even Tex himself describes as a beneficial institution.

  97. Of course you and Huck would find it “exactly.” So would Rutherford. You all share a common, immutable bond…you share it with Helen, and Lori, Cynthia and Obama, Joe Biden and Hollywood, Stalin and Mao.

    And it so obvious to those with understand, it is undeniable.

    Believing yourselves wise, you’ve become…

  98. If anyone pops in….Happy and safe 4th of July folks. As for Independence Day boy oh boy can one have fun pointing out the ironies and pitfalls of that concept.

  99. It is some kind of special day when I find myself in agreement with both Whittle Bill AND Alfie. Yikes! 😯 Ironies and pitfalls, for sure.

  100. Happy Independence Day. Ours will be muted, because last night, our daughter called to say she had a 102 fever with an infection and was too sick to get out of bed.. She is taking antibiotics, and her only contact with her daughter is to watch someone carry her through a hall. Our son in law and his parents are taking the current shift.

    I stumbled across a minor mystery. In 2009, an Estonian and two friends made a video cover of Metro Station-“Shake it.” Then, she and her friends vanished. Even her FaceBook and twitter accounts are dormant, according to old fans who checked..

    Even so, her site has been hit over a million times, mostly by young men who claim she was their first YouTube crush, and they miss her. They speculate what she must be doing as a probable twenty year old today, or if she is still alive.

    New fans join and speculate. it is a wonderful marketing strategy akin to “what happened to Jimmy Hoffa?”

  101. “On this 4th of July for the first time in my adult life, I will not be celebrating Independence Day and I have little love for this country or allegiance to it.”

    Utter melodramatic nonsense. Can you name a country you’d rather live in? There are LOADS of folks with your political persuasion free to express their beliefs as you do here everyday.

    So your local constabulary pissed you off. In this great country you got to raise a stink about it with no lasting consequence to you.

    It’s a cold day in hell that I find myself defending America to Tex Taylor.

  102. How’s hell going for you, Rutherford? Did you get a reprieve? I can’t believe they emptied the dumpsters in my neighborhood today. I was thinking some of my neighbors were nuts for putting their dumpsters out on the street for collection last night, and then lo and behold, here come the trash man this morning to empty them. It’s like a regular workday. It’s another glorified shopping event. This is normally a workday for me, but not this year. I’ll go out tomorrow and catch up.

  103. “It’s a cold day in hell that I find myself defending America to Tex Taylor.”

    Oh boy. Woe to America if she’s depending on you to defend her.

    Freedom of speech will watch religious freedom go before her. It becomes more and more clear how Clusterfuckcare fits in so perfectly in the grand scheme of things. And the first case to pit gay “rights” against religious freedom will be brought by the DOJ itself.

    Every knee will bow and in Government we do trust.

    Happy 4th everyone.

  104. I was at a family reunion of sorts last night. Apparently my proud Mom and Dad told everyone about my daring heroics on the banks of the Huron River.

    So, I was the man of the night and taken off my guard a little bit.
    Thankfully, the fireworks show finally gave me an excuse to stop rehashing my awesomeness.

    As I watched the show, it occurred to me what really happened. I caused those kids to get caught in the current.

    I showed up and threw my line close to where they were swimming. This part of the river was safe. My presence caused them to move right, where the current got them.

    Ha. That never occurred to me until last night and I’ve pondered it a lot.

    Well….at least it all ended well.

  105. “The argument is not about homosexuality, although, when unable to mount a successful argument against gay marriage, the attempt is always made to change the subject to what is, for lack of a better word, homophobes’ REAL issue: dislike of homosexuality itself.” -Doc

    Read Rutherford’s article, Bozo.

    “Once we get over homosexuality as perversion we will be fine with gay marriage.” -Rutherford

    How is Rutherford’s own argument not about homosexuality?

  106. “And the first case to pit gay “rights” against religious freedom will be brought by the DOJ itself.”

    I would assume that, in a proper kind of place, one wouldn’t need to put quotes around the word “rights.” I would hope that we would all have the same “rights.”

    I would appreciate if someone could tell me how this (which?) case “pit(s) gay “rights” against religious freedom.” If your church doesn’t want to marry gays, then don’t. Nobody’s forcing you.

  107. The various cities have their own collection departments, so government. Some of the lesser ones contract it out to entities like Waste Management. There’s a lot of money in garbage management. I know some who have managed to become wealthy from garbage.

  108. Quoting R and PF,

    “The argument is not about homosexuality, although, when unable to mount a successful argument against gay marriage, the attempt is always made to change the subject to what is, for lack of a better word, homophobes’ REAL issue: dislike of homosexuality itself.” -Doc

    ‘Once we get over homosexuality as perversion we will be fine with gay marriage.’ -Rutherford

    Muffy then opines: “How is Rutherford’s own argument not about homosexuality?”

    If you read it carefully, you will see that his argument is, indeed,not about homosexuality – it is, unfortunately, about YOU and people like you.

    His POV is the same as mine – that many of those opposed to gay marriage conflate their opposition to gay marriage with their opposition to homosexuality itself, and that when they get their own heads straight about queers and the interesting things they do in bed, they will see that there is no logical argument against gay marriage, and that opposition will fall away.

    To which I might add, this is the PERFECT example of how religious training interferes with what should be an easy exercise in logical thinking, because try as you might, you cannot get rid of a lifetime of being inculcated with God’s abomination of all things queer. Because no matter the argument, underlying it is really that, isn’t it?

    So if queers are such a problem for your god, then why does he continue to make them?

  109. Good ol’ Pfessor. Outraged over the lack of work ethic and respect of kids these days. Yet, with a ton of glee, enjoys every second of tearing down every social, religious and family tradition in America.

    It’s shitty that boys are growing into men with two gay Dads as parents. Its not a good thing. Call me a bigot all you want. A boy needs a mother and a father. And I don’t care that you can point out failed hetero marriages. For the state to officially raise gay marriage to the same platitude as the traditional family is sucks.

    The only difference between Tex and I is I believe that we, as a society, should be free to commit suicide.

  110. Homosexuals are almost considered normal and the acceptance as normal in our society is what irks heterosexual so-called homophobic folks. To accept as ‘norm’ stamps of approval and that goes against the moral anchor many are chained to.

    Really, if we could just strip off all the labels and apply the golden rule, we would not need to justify with laws every act we feel needs justification by power greater than our own individual beings.

    Just quit enabling a force that determines and pushes a collective rule.

  111. Free speech has morphed into the right to propagandize and porn for any and everyone, yet free lance reporting that scorns the very enforcers, once called dissent and considered honorable, and nowadays you could just make it on a kill list.

    Say a big HI to uncle sam. Always watching. Just like santa.

    Happy Independence day, my fellow Americans.

  112. IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

    The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

    When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.–Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

    He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
    He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
    He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
    He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
    He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
    He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
    He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
    He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
    He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
    He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
    He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
    He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
    He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
    For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
    For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
    For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
    For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
    For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
    For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
    For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
    He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
    He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
    He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
    He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
    He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

    In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

    Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

    We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

  113. DR noted: “Yet, with a ton of glee, enjoys every second of tearing down every social, religious and family tradition in America.”

    We are not talking about everything – we are talking about one thing: should same-sex couples be allowed the same legal rights as different-sex couples. It’s no more complicated than that. I think they should; I can see no reason why not. None. And the idea that one couple getting married affects another couple is silly. Should I protest that a couple in New York shouldn’t get married, because it might……..let’s see here……..I got it – it might DILUTE my marriage and make it less special!

    See, it’s just silly. Other people’s business is just that – their business.

    Marriage is mostly a legal contract. Let’s let anybody crazy enough to get married have the same rights and privileges. What’s the harm?

    “It’s shitty that boys are growing into men with two gay Dads as parents. Its not a good thing. Call me a bigot all you want. A boy needs a mother and a father. ”

    Agreed. Mom/Dad is definitely preferable, but not preferable to a children’s home or orphanage. I know about that.

  114. ” Mom/Dad is definitely preferable, but not preferable to a children’s home or orphanage.”

    I would think the pro-life crowd would add “or an abortion” to that list. Yet my question about that continues to go unanswered.

  115. There is are tons of people wanting to adopt. There is a shortage of babies, not parents. Bureaucracy and unrealistic financial requirements sadly stops many infertile couples from adopting.

    I’m guessing soon it will be even harder for infertile couples as gay couples, considered every bit as legitimate as any other couple, crowd the market for adoption.

    Hucking…I find your question silly. The baby in the womb is a life. So…..you can “what if” all kinds of different scenarios outside of that. Just because I believe a baby should live doesn’t legitimize any life style that may or may not surround the baby that I deem immoral, no matter what it might be.

  116. “I would think the pro-life crowd would add “or an abortion” to that list. Yet my question about that continues to go unanswered.”

    Of course….there is the obvious cold fact that there is no such thing as an unwanted pregnancy amongst gay couples rendering your question ludicrous.

    Um…um….would you rather see a baby be aborted or be raised by a family of kleptomaniacs.

    Um…um….would you rather see a baby be aborted or live with a family who never, ever puts their shopping cart back in the designated area.

  117. PF and R FLAG ON THE PLAY!!!
    You two are oversimplifying the issue to an inane level and then have the audacity to say others are illogical.
    PF as an aspiring libertarian how far do you go regards your Marriage is mostly a legal contract meme ? I think you’re right but I am not convinced you accept it as a contract that involves far more than two people and all the implications of that.
    As for Rutherfords glib one liner:
    Once we get over homosexuality as perversion we will be fine with gay marriage.
    I can only say OMG! how fucking msnbc of him. R if you really believe thats the issue in a nutshell you really did waste your time wearing crimson.

  118. Infant adoption is a sick sick sick industry and it rivals the slave trade in its sickening nature. Only in America can you have people deemed respectable when they pocket thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars bartering infant worth. “Sorry Mr and Mrs Smith we can’t get you a blonde female at the price you’re willing to pay but I can get you two free range African Americans. AND THATS BASED ON A TRUE STORY FOLKS.

  119. Utter melodramatic nonsense. Can you name a country you’d rather live in?

    Yes. The one where you and Pfesser not prominent and carry zero authority and which has no Islamic influence, nor no political correctness run a muck. When I find it, you won’t have to ask because I won’t be here to answer.

    And since I’m not so naive, how about we just secede from your wretched ilk instead?

    Each day that passes, I realize men like Pfesser really more my enemy than Islamic Sharia. I want to leave you and Pfesser the country you deserve. Failed, followed by hell of earth. I’m much too impatient to await your tribulation.

    Any other questions?

  120. alfie @155. It seems to me there are two parts: 1) marriage, which is a contract between two people. 2) govt rules, which apply to those people who have chosen to make that contract.

    The govt has said it will confer certain privileges on those folks who contract marriage with each other, including the right to share in retirements, visit in the hospital and make medical decisions. Nowadays hospitals have such stupid visitation rules that, if a person is REALLY, REALY sick, only family members can visit. That could mean that your nephew, whom you detest and detests you for being queer, will make medical decisions for you while your life partner can’t even come in the room. Not cool.

    Getting back to your question about involving others, of course nothing anybody does ever involves only himself or his partner; it’s not possible as long as you have more than one person on the same planet. But there are things that, in a practical manner, involve other folks (how fast you drive your car through a school zone, for example) and those that do not. (Do you shoot and eat the squirrel or the rabbit?)

    Of course, those who just don’t like the queer lifestyle will strain mightily to convince those who make the laws that queer marriage falls in the first category. I don’t see it. I think the impact on others is minimal, if that, and the benefit to everybody very high.

  121. You’re so naive, my dear Rutherford.

    I can honor my betters at Memorial Day and Veteran’s Day and still remain the most minute fraction of Patriotic, for what it is worth. We most definitely need not not a revolution, but an insurrection against all of the elitists, from worthless government to higher education. They’re all equally worthless.

    Do you know how many people I’m reading today so disgusted with your idea of America and what Barack Obama represents as leader and what you represent as citizen, that they are in complete agreement with me and not you? Millions upon millions.

    Don’t believe me, go out to some distributed server board with millions of hits like Drudge and hit the links. It may not be your board – but it is in large part representative of huge parts of America. I dare you if you think I am dishonest or extreme. Maybe, and I doubt it as I’ve never found you particular perceptive, you will get a very rude awakening. How’s your post-racial, transparent, restorative messiah looking now, chief?

    And before you accuse me of dabbling at the fringe, I’m talking about the Wall Street Journal crowd, the Weekly Standard Crowd, The FT, The Economist, USA Today etc…

    Nobody believes this faux celebration today is what America is – America has become an abomination; it only depends what the word is, is. The revived Roman Empire under Caligula. It’s a shell of its former self. At best it might be a celebration of what it was. If there were justice, our military would turn the guns on us for screwing it up so badly.

    As an omen, my wife bought a new flag and the string holding it broke. We came home from breakfast to find the flag lying in the flower bed, flowers straddling the edges.

    I told me wife, “Fitting. I’ll take that as a sign from God that America’s days numbered.”

  122. I’m your enema, because I really crawl up your ass. LOL.

    Amazing.

    For once Pfesser, we agree on something of importance. Because that is exactly where a man of your character belongs…

    Eternally lodged in the asshole of life. Enjoy your stay, Tarzan. 😐

  123. “For language analysts you’re largely imprecise with your language.” I love it. Passing the buck…

  124. I answered it…..quite plainly. I’ll answer your pointless question again though. Yes, theoretically, if a gay man could somehow inseminate another gay man and they get pregnant, I’d want the baby to be born.

    Or….if in some make believe hypothetical world of yours, if being brought up by gays was the only alternative to murder in the womb, I’d choose the two Dads.

    How bout you, who would win, Superman or Ironman?

  125. No matter who raises you, love is the most important nurturing quality for kids and adults. Love is doled out in time. There are many things that stand in as to symbolize or substitute, yet never fill the same void.

  126. Here Rutherford. I’ll give our wonderful family a left-handed compliment.

    As dysfunctional as I find this board anymore, I reckon about 99% of America and the world are even more dysfunctional, depraved, dying, and thoroughly depressed after perusing the web today.

    There’s your bit of happy news and good luck on the job search.

    How about another round of government overreach and incompetence to start next week?

  127. Happy Fourth Bitches!

    At least a some around here are wiling to think.

    I would love to convince my lesbian relative, “married” in VT, and conservative. In her 70s and can’t stand shallow proxy leftist “morality.” Love when liberals approach her thinking they have the same bent before she unloads. She’d fuck with R all day long. I’ve watched her with cocktail in hand tear the ass end out of NY liberals that assume their simpatico because she’s openly gay. It never gets tired. Yes, they’re rare but do exist.

  128. sorry for the typos. “I would love to convince my lesbian relative, “married” in VT, and conservative to weigh in.”

    Sheesh. I don’t think I’ve typed a single comment without a typo since I’ve come here.

  129. @ PF I would add at least a number 3. That individuals enter into a contract with society. There is really no way I am going to articulate this as well as I would like but I will try. I will cut to the chase and say I am one who believes we are fraying the edges and more of the fabric of that contract each day.
    No matter the side of the issue I think too many of us are seeing the wrong boogeyman in the matter,I want to stress that there are indeed boogeymen afoot. Perhaps as an atheist you don’t care but I would hold out hope you’d be willing to step up for the churches,temples and mosques who speak out against homosexuality and who choose not to support it in any manner. As an educated man I imagine you know there are those who want to paint faithful folks as bigots and who ironically demean people of faith while at the same time demanding “tolerance”.
    Societies change sometimes for the better sometimes worse. Change takes time and should occur with thoughtful planning.
    On another note and by no means straw man,herring etc but serious curiosity. Where do we draw the line. Couples? Throuples? Goats?
    I ask not to be crazy only to highlight the thoughtful planning thing.

  130. “How’s hell going for you, Rutherford? ”

    Thanks for asking. They let me opt out of my 2nd hour of OT tonight so I get to see fireworks with the family after all.

    Now I’m not quite so pissed off.

  131. Alfie – re: contracts with society. I don’t have a problem with taking care of group welfare, but for it to trump individual freedom, it has to meet a high bar.

    Bear with me a minute; I don’t know where I read it, but your post brings me back to something……..something to the effect that the founding of America and American govt was the first time that the individual was considered more important than the group, and that previously, the group was considered paramount and everybody was supposed to subordinate himself. Eastern cultures, esp. Orientals still emphasize the societal contract, but I think one of the biggest problems here and now is that we worry too much about society (as in socialist) and too little about individuals. Take care of individual rights and the society will take care of itself.

    I’m sorry, I can’t support the groups you mentioned in their condemnation of homosexuality, because I believe they are fundamentally wrong. I think their opinion on queers is based on ancient understandings that no longer apply – that never really applied, but that was the thought of the times when their holy books were written. I don’t know why anybody would apply it today.

    No offense meant, but I can’t understand any of it based on the faith thing, because I just don’t believe any of that, and I think religion clouds thinking, not helps it.

    I really understand folks’ fears considering homosexual marriage; a few years ago I felt the same way, but not any more. After you think about it a bit, I think it could be nothing but a good thing.

    Sorry – that’s kind of rambling. I’m trying to type and watch “The Full Monty” at the same time. LOL

  132. Alfie: “On another note and by no means straw man,herring etc but serious curiosity. Where do we draw the line. Couples? Throuples? Goats?”

    You had mentioned curiosity. I keep hearing the above about animals, cars, etc. Out of curiosity, where does that come from? Nobody has proposed anything like that. The proposal is marrying two people. Why do people’s imaginations run wild with ideas of marrying trees, cars, goats??

    So, to answer your question, couples. There. Done.

  133. You can’t move boundaries and then be surprised when somebody asks how far. Why just couples?

    Alfie simply applies your own logic to polygamy and doesn’t understand why you suddenly are so staunchly conservative about the number.

  134. “Agreed. Mom/Dad is definitely preferable, but not preferable to a children’s home or orphanage. I know about that.”

    And not preferable to a drunken abusive dad or a sadistic mother. Lets stop this fantasy about the Leave it to Beaver family.

    Here’s a little secret: my guess is that in a two dad family one dad is actually the “mom”. Just as in some hetero marriages the dad is sometimes the traditional mom.

  135. “Lets stop this fantasy about the Leave it to Beaver family.”

    Bad move……but you liberals have never really put much faith in the traditional family. How did that work out for you guys?

    You would think, after the disastrous results of some of your other attempts to social engineer…you would tread more carefully.

    Now you are going for broke….destroying even the ideal of the traditional family. Why? Because there are some bad ones.

    In my experience, and I have a lot in this realm….children fare much better in homes with very, very flawed Moms and Dads then they do with one parent with her/his shit together,

  136. DR, you don’t need me to weigh in on everything. You should know that whatever R is for I am against.

    FWIW, I am not entirely fixed in my opinions, but generally I opposed to redefining marriage but open to the idea of a separate union.
    Religious institutions can do and recognize whatever the fuck they want. However the legal relationship to the State in the respects PF mentions but exaggerates the significance of (e.g. visitation rights, inheritance, benefits etc.) I view as generally contractual in nature and can be mirrored or accommodated without degrading the more fundamental aspects of traditional marriage (e.g. those generally tied to procreation).

    As for the back and forth, Alfie’s 155 states my thoughts on the PF and R exchanges and explains why don’t want to jump in. The points are too shallow to merit much effort responding to.

  137. “accommodated without degrading the more fundamental aspects of traditional marriage”

    That’s the part I can’t get my head around. In terms of marriage, if you take all the legal and contractual stuff and make it not exclusive for traditionally wedded couples and have legally identical unions for homos, what is then distinctive about the traditional marriage? Is it then merely only a very profound statement? Constitutionally, doesn’t everyone have the right to make any statement they want? So, how can we say homos can’t marry?

    It almost has a Brown vs the Board of Education ring to it. Separate unions but equal under the law. How can that constitutionally hold up?

    I don’t get it, man.

    I’m with Tex. I know this ain’t good in the long run. I just don’t see how the homos can’t constitutionally win.

  138. Here’s a little secret: my guess is that in a two dad family one dad is actually the “mom”.

    He doesn’t even understand the irony of what he just posted, much less the abject stupidity.

    This is how far Rutherford has sunk into political correctness, and this one doesn’t have a damn thing to do with “love” as much as he would like us all to think it would. This is the proverbial sharp stick to the Christian eye.

  139. Huck is simply your garden variety atheist or agnostic – not really hostile to or supportive of my faith. That’s tolerable and that is America. I have no problem with that, though I think Huck is highly miscalculating the fall out of this. There will be war as this an affront to Almighty God.

    But y’all don’t really think this issue has a damn thing to do with Mr. Libido Porn’s great love of queers, do you? Pfesser will give you this cockamamie crap about churches not having to conduct gay marriage services in the future, yada yada yada. Yeah, right.

    Until just about the time one of these church services refuses to, or some baker is sued because he won’t make the fruits a wedding cake. And you watch the pom poms come out for Pfesser expressing his desire for the militant queers to sue the churches.

    History repeating itself.

    And I can guarantee militants like Pfesser are inching one giant step closer to privatizing Christian Churches, then eliminating them. Don’t be fooled – Rutherford to a lesser degree, he’s just not quite as demonstrably vocal about it. Why do you in large part think these two mock Sarah Palin so vociferously? Her stupidity?

    Do you see them mocking Joe Biden, a man Roger Ailes described as dumb as an ashtray? Roger Ailes hired Sarah Palin.

    Do you see any of these “gay marriage” proponents voicing opposition to something like this?

    http://www.worldmag.com/2013/06/another_bakery_sued_for_not_baking_same_sex_wedding_cakes

    It’s a ruse – that is the end game. Persecute the church and persecute the Christians under the guise of ‘rights…’ and pursuit of happiness.

    How many times does Pfesser have to make it clear to the world that he absolutely hates the message of Jesus Christ, will not tolerate the public worship of Jesus Christ, hates those who claim to follow Christ, demeans the followers of Christ, will not tolerate the proselytizing of Christ’s name, etc.. etc… etc…

    It’s the one issue the man has been absolutely consistent about here for two years now. About the only one…

  140. PF I disagree that nobody is proposing it but by no means did I mean to imply you were. As for my curiosity it was and as a rule always is genuine.
    Basically it all speaks to my concern over thoughtful planning and implementation.
    I will say though that I find it very disappointing that for your goals you support churches doing what they want but once your goal sets and the logical progression continues you seemingly will tell those individuals they can go fuck themselves. Please elaborate if I am reading you wrong.

  141. “Until just about the time one of these church services refuses to, or some baker is sued because he won’t make the fruits a wedding cake. And you watch the pom poms come out for Pfesser expressing his desire for the militant queers to sue the churches.”

    Nonsense. Make something up and say it’s bad. Straw man. Yawn…

    “And I can guarantee militants like Pfesser are inching one giant step closer to privatizing Christian Churches, then eliminating them.”

    They’re already private. Wow, that was easy!

    “Don’t be fooled – Rutherford to a lesser degree, he’s just not quite as demonstrably vocal about it. Why do you in large part think these two mock Sarah Palin so vociferously? Her stupidity?”

    That’s part of it, but it’s not nice to mock folks who are just low IQ. It’s OK, though, to mock folks with that lethal combination of low IQ, consummate arrogance, and the abiding belief that it is their duty handed down from God to force their ideas on everybody else.

    “Do you see them mocking Joe Biden, a man Roger Ailes described as dumb as an ashtray?”

    God, he really is, isn’t he? Apparently you don’t remember this video I posted:

    If that ain’t mocking, I don’t know mocking. And I know mocking.

    “Roger Ailes hired Sarah Palin.”

    See, he’s not perfect either. But he did wise up and later fire her too, didn’t he?

    “Do you see any of these “gay marriage” proponents voicing opposition to something like this?
    http://www.worldmag.com/2013/06/another_bakery_sued_for_not_baking_same_sex_wedding_cakes

    I’m opposed. Happy?

    “It’s a ruse – that is the end game. Persecute the church and persecute the Christians under the guise of ‘rights…’ and pursuit of happiness.”

    Persecution? What persecution? What the hell are you talking about? Do you mean asking folks to STOP persecuting queers? Now that’s SOME kind of mean, all right…what sort of bad person would do that? Why, with that kind of slippery slope, before you know it, out come the lions!

    Or there could be another explanation: some folks have come to realize, after think about it – you remember thinking, right? That was before the reactionary knee-jerk came to live with you. — came to realize that there is no downside to treating everybody the same, and a big downside to not doing so. Hysteria notwithstanding, I still haven’t heard a single good reason to not legalize same-sex marriage, or how someone getting married threatens anybody else’s marriage.

    “How many times does Pfesser have to make it clear to the world that he absolutely hates the message of Jesus Christ,”

    Wrong, Okie Breath…Actually I love the message, and likely the man, too – if he existed. It’s his followers that sometimes scare me.

    “will not tolerate the public worship of Jesus Christ,”

    Not on public property; that belongs to all of us, some of whom are followers of other gods, some none. On your own property, do whatever blows your skirt up.

    “hates those who claim to follow Christ, demeans the followers of Christ,”

    Have to admit, some I find a little scary. You, for example.

    “will not tolerate the proselytizing of Christ’s name,”

    Not on public property; on private property, whatever blows… well, you know.

    “It’s the one issue the man has been absolutely consistent about here for two years now.”

    Finally, something correct. About 10%! Not too bad this time!

  142. Alfie – I don’t think I understand what you are asking, so I don’t know if this addresses it or not: I don’t have any problem with what the churches do on their own property – with their own believers, who are there voluntarily. I am somewhat puzzled, though, by those believers who never question church doctrine or suggest that maybe some of it is wrong. That seems very hard for believers to do. I think the church is wrong on same-sex marriage, that their beliefs on it belong to another time and place.

    I see religion as a separate part of this country; a private club with private individuals doing private things. As long as they understand – like for example, the Odd Fellows do – that the laws of the realm always preempt their own, we’ll all get along just fine. Occasionally churches try to break that wall of separation between Church and State, and when they do, they find me on the other side, repairing the concrete.

    Actually, my wife and I are members of a local Pentecostal (!) church; the folks there are just the best; they help each other, give counsel, love and grieve together – and they do not proselytize -even me – they figure you are smart enough to come ’round if you like their way of doing business.

    (By the way, the minister just did an interracial marriage of two members. That’s called tolerance; many would do well to get some.)

  143. “You can’t move boundaries and then be surprised when somebody asks how far. Why just couples?

    Alfie simply applies your own logic to polygamy and doesn’t understand why you suddenly are so staunchly conservative about the number.”

    OK, then, it would seem to me that, by your logic, then you can’t have “traditional” marriage either. I mean, if you marry your female partner, what is next, marrying your car, animals, same sex? Multiple partners? My God, what a slippery slope!

    See, it makes no sense. You just make a decision. The decision is that people can contract with opposite-sex partners.

    OK, you want to expand that, because you think it is the Right Thing to Do. You say, “OK, now it’s ok to marry same-sex partners.”

    I think the multiples, cars, animals argument is silly. Makes no sense to me whatsoever.

  144. That was weak. Marriage has been around thousands of years and is the most essential bond to a healthy society. Even the court has awknowledged that. So, yeah, your come back would make sense if marriage between a man and a woman was new. Total cop out.
    Agan, since we are now altering 5 thousand years of history, why is gender changeable but the number static for you?

    You can’t answer.

  145. “[I]f you take all the legal and contractual stuff and make it not exclusive for traditionally wedded couples and have legally identical unions for homos, what is then distinctive about the traditional marriage? Is it then merely only a very profound statement?”

    I hear you DR. But let me try it this way. Should gays NOT be allowed to enter into contractual relationships that mirror the same legal rights confused with the “privileges” for marriage?

    Let’s use some of PF’s examples which are red herrings:

    Inheritance is of course fixed by a Will. The State only writes a Will for you if you die intestate (without a will). The succession is what most people expect — with wife and kids first. In the case of a gay couple, adoption of course includes the kids. Partner is excluded. So draft will (which is itself a contract). The right to leave your property already exists in all 50 states (as far as I know). Should this be disallowed?

    Hospital visitation? A durable healthcare power of attorney (or similar document) can be drafted in advance to provide access to the gay partner. The power can be joint in many states, so throw a few more gay buddies on there while you’re at it. Anyway, the so-called “right” again already exists so long as the contract is entered into in advance. Should this be disallowed?

    The joint property rights between spouses (“marital property”), to my knowledge, can similarly be dealt with by contract — such as through irrevocable trusts — in the event of a split in the relationship. This one is trickier but nevertheless raises the same questions. Should it be disallowed?

    Enforcement of a contract is the exercise of State power. And each of these can be accomplished between unmarried hetero couples. Obviously then, these contractual relationships aren’t what “define” marriage. I don’t think these should be disallowed (unenforceable) contractual relationships just because you’re a booty bandit or rug muncher. And since unmarried heteros can do it, how could applying it to homos diminish concepts of traditional marriage?

    The buggers:

    The ones mentioned that can’t be emulated by contract (to my knowledge) would be the tax treatment (if you consider filing a joint tax return a fucking “benefit” or “right”) and governmental support for spouses, e.g. SS, survivorship rights for military, whatever money and services flow from State to widow/spouse by operation of law. Since it seems to me these are based on presumed financial dependence that can’t be dealt with by contract, these are the buggers and where I am with you on the idea of recognizing a designation (“civil union”) as imposing an obligation on the State to confer benefits as though a marriage exists. This is where I ride the rail since we are no talking about “disallowance” of a right that exists for unmarried heteros.

    But I tend to think federal recognition of the a civil union to confer what otherwise are spousal benefits could be accommodated without diminishing traditional marriage which, in the legal sense (as opposed to religious), is governed by the states not fed anyway. Nothing more and nothing less.

  146. I swear there needs to be explicit constitutional protection for marriage or its toast. The framers never imagined a people so perverse.

    Homos will win this one unless there is an amendment.

  147. I don’t know. Maybe some explicit definition of marriage, which specifies gender.

    But that ain’t gonna happen.

    The founding fathers never imagined such a perverse world. We are screwed.

  148. Maybe not, but it’s still just a term. It’s the nature of the relationship that matters so if the term marriage was simply replaced with a new term like “special friends that fuck” to accomplish the same objectives, the sanctity “marriage” suffers the same fate, don’t you think?

  149. “Agan, since we are now altering 5 thousand years of history, why is gender changeable but the number static for you?
    You can’t answer.”

    The reason is, Because I Said So. Because the S. Court said so. Because it’s the Right Thing to Do. That is sufficient. We don’t need another reason.

    Why do you put your pants on frontward instead of backward?
    Because they fit better.

    Why did you change your rotary-dial phone for a pushbutton one? Because times change and it’s a better device.

    Why do you drive an automatic transmission instead of a standard?
    Because times change and it’s a better device.

    Why do you cook over a gas stove instead of a fire in the middle of the floor with a hole in the ceiling?
    Because times change and it’s a better way.

    Why should blacks not have to sit in the back of the bus and drink from separate water fountains?
    Because times change and it’s time to leave the old ways behind.

    Why should we abolish slavery? After all, it’s a staple of life for “5 thousand years of history”…
    Because times change and you can’t do that shit anymore.

    Why should queers be allowed to marry?
    Because times change and it’s time they be accepted as equals.

    Enough answer for you?

  150. “But I tend to think federal recognition of the a civil union to confer what otherwise are spousal benefits could be accommodated without diminishing traditional marriage which, in the legal sense (as opposed to religious), is governed by the states not fed anyway. ”

    Or, you could do it the easy way. You could just let them marry. No convoluted bullshit like the above is necessary then, eh?

    For the fortieth time, and I am NOT ever going to let this go: Tell me how letting queers marry “diminishes traditional marriage.” Of course, the answer is, “It doesn’t.” Prove Me Wrong.

    Don’t you see? I’s all in your head, and for many, it is fueled by the bullshit Kool-Aid from a lifetime of church propaganda. The scary, ill-defined booger-man hiding in the shadows, “the other,” the different fellow, the queer, the foreigner, the alien:

    Just remember; Now and Then, we ALL are Aliens – Feeling Like We Don’t Belong. Have Mercy, Cried the Alien.

    If they can do it to the queers, they can do it to YOU.

    Free yourself from your fears, from Jefferson’s Tyranny over the Mind of Man, and it all becomes crystal.

  151. BEAT THAT CHEST, THUMPER!

    Tarzan Pfesser, Poseur extraordinaire…

    You’re so full of shit. But I’ve known that from the start.

    You got the heart and the disposition of a tyrant, but frankly you don’t have the stroke and don’t have the balls to carry it through with it. Had I been the politician you wrote that one chest beating threat to which was just lame as hell, I would have laughed and mailed it back to you on the tax payer dime with a note in red ink to KISS MY ASS.

    For all your chest thumping King Kong, you got one thing in common with Hussein; you’re transparently full of shit and a legend in your own mind. Save me your illusions of prowess…

    Face it. They ran you out of the clinic because you’re an asshole and nobody liked you.

  152. After reading you PF, I’m wondering why marriage serves any purpose at all in your mind. If it does, what is it?

    Provides cover for the swinging orgies…Straight, queer, no matter – a frenzy of love. How did Pfesser put it? Legitimizes it for the kids. 😯

    I remember Pfesser fond of the term santorum being referred to “the frothy mixture of lube and fecal matter that is sometimes a byproduct of anal sex.” Of course, when I posed Dan the Fag Savage as a rank bully to high school students at of all things the “anti bullying” campaign, then all of the sudden Dan the Fag Savage was just the fringe of some really “outstanding” people.

    You can’t make this stuff up.

    I’m beginning to understand Pfesser’s fondness for the word.

  153. “The reason is, Because I Said So.”-Pfessor

    I rest my case.

    I grew up next to hundreds of thousands of Muslims. For a 4 year stretch, I heard the call to prayer every day. There will be push for polygamy. Sure, it won’t have the hip momentum that the homos wield now. But it might have something stronger, precedent.

    The mighty Pfessor. Arbiter of when or when not to apply an argument. While so omnipotent he can also be so giving. Like the time he let his grown son have a kitty cat and came on here bragging about it. Such a nice tyrant.

    If I kiss your ring finger will I get some pussy too?

    “I told you so……” Even the Dominionists don’t have the gall to use that one, do they?

  154. alright boys!!!!!!! Dead Rabbit is back in the game!

    OIL Aug 17 ’13 $22 Put 30 cents!

    Those fucking Egyptian stink beards need to chill the fuck out and make the Dead Rabbit some beer money!

    Oh yeah…fellow Americans…..try not to get hired for another month.

    Yeah…no volume…..no open interest…..all by my lonesome!

    Nothing better then making Obama’s global anarchy a form of fantasy sports!

    Barbeque ribs, Cadillac cars…..Rabbit aint as stupid as you think he is.

    Maybe I’ll cover my short and have a one fourth barrel of sweet crude delivered to my house. I’ll get drunk and pour it on a bonfire and then piss on it to put it out.

  155. Over a foot of hail in Santa Rosa, NM, day before yesterday. Craziness. Nah, nothing to see here folks. Move along.

    As for this marriage thing, do you really want the government to sanctify anything? Isn’t it our government in all its overreach the biggest hindrance to real freedom and liberty around this world today? Beacon on a hill? Hardly. More like a red light district. Its members cannot follow the rules it has already implemented, what’s the point of adding more? I say no more new rules. We need to ratchet it back and simplify and make it truly transparent. It’s like a club where the insiders have better benefits and follow different rules than the rest of us, those of us not in the club. Exclusivity. Membership has its privileges, right? To serve or be served. I think service has been one of those lost concepts in our modern age. I think it has largely been replaced with entitlement. What can “I” get out of any given situation. Self-serving. Greed. Those in power have operated long as if immune to any ramifications of disobeying current laws. In some cases they are openly hostile toward them. “When the president does it, it isn’t illegal.” They often oppose and operate against the very oath they take to uphold the Constitution. Look how these past two administrations have wiped their butts with our Bill of Rights. Why should we add more hypocrisy to the mix? These people obviously cover for each others’ crimes and operate primarily in secret under the oft cited guise of “national security” interests. What a joke. What an absolute crock. American citizens are much less secure and monumentally less safe due to all these secretive activities and the ongoing machinations of insiders. We have also been taught not to question or oppose authority for fear of retribution. Suck it up and move along. The new American way.

    In our sex-crazed society, it is ludicrous to see the federal government as upholding some sort of moral standard. It has rather served to empower the fringe and benefit the amoral and immoral. We’d be better off to abolish it in favor of state or community rule.

  156. Zimmerman trial update.

    Prosecution? Still ass clowns.

    The medical examiner is a biased, scripted yet incoherent, idiot.

    Mom and brother? Willing to send an innocent white-Hispanic to jail before admitting Trayvon was at fault. And lie in the process. Sad for all concerned really.

    Sharpton still an MSNBC “analyst” on the trial. Moron. Perfect for MSNBC.

    I’ve grown to like O’Mara’s soft-spoken laid back style. Particularly effective with this agenda driven judge and worthless/combative witnesses.

  157. ”Here’s a little secret: my guess is that in a two dad family one dad is actually the “mom”. Just as in some hetero marriages the dad is sometimes the traditional mom.” -Rutherford

    Reality check. One is not “actually the mom.” One is an empty pretense and will never ever ever be the mom – traditional, figurative, literal, equivalent, in quotation marks, or actual.

    And it looks like Doc has proven only that he is incapable of unclouded judgment and spectacularly ungifted in argument. He thinks he’s the open minded one but there’s a tight lid on that sewer.

  158. And just to be clear – No I am not saying that gay couples are engaging in empty pretense. I’m specifically addressing Rutherford’s “little secret.”

  159. “Like the time he let his grown son have a kitty cat and came on here bragging about it. Such a nice tyrant.

    If I kiss your ring finger will I get some pussy too? “

    This is sort of in a class of funny all by itself.

  160. “Craziness. Nah, nothing to see here folks. Move along.”

    There is nothing to see there if you understand how hail works.

    Hail is created by heat thermals sending falling raindrops back up into the sky. The initial drop gets lifted, and picks up more moisture on its way back up. It goes high enough that it starts to freeze. When it comes back down, it picks up more moisture. This process repeats until it becomes heavy enough that the thermal can no longer lift it.

    Pretty simple stuff, actually. Nothing to see there.

  161. “I’ve grown to like O’Mara’s soft-spoken laid back style. Particularly effective with this agenda driven judge and worthless/combative witnesses.”

    I like him too. Not many people in the room to like either.

  162. mowwowwowwwwawawa

    I’ve unleashed my hail machine on Santa Rosa, NM, Finally……Santa Rosa will pay for what it did to me………

  163. LOL the fun never ends. Someone just commented on my old anti-Trayvon post calling me and I quote “vile ass,hole” — punctuation intact.

    See what happens when my sentiments come even close to you guys.

  164. “After reading you PF, I’m wondering why marriage serves any purpose at all in your mind. If it does, what is it?”

    It legitimizes two people’s relationship in the eyes of the state, their acquaintances/relatives, and themselves. The State also confers upon a married couple certain privileges and benefits that they would not have otherwise.

  165. muffy opined: And it looks like Doc has proven only that he is incapable of unclouded judgment and spectacularly ungifted in argument.

    If that is so, then why is he so calm and amused, while you and your alter beagle, Tex, spin in frenzied circles, biting yourselves in perfect rage and total frustration?

    heheee……Just wondering…

  166. It legitimizes two people’s relationship in the eyes of the state, their acquaintances/relatives, and themselves?

    Why 2 for the 10th time

  167. tex @ 201.

    Let’s try to get back on track, and shitcan the personal stuff, can we? I’ve not the slightest interest in your affection; I am, however, interested in your POV and how you support it — that is, whenever you can calm down enough to try and put something coherent together.

    Now, tell me again how somebody else’s getting married in any way affects YOUR marriage? It threatens it? How does that work?

  168. “It legitimizes two people’s relationship in the eyes of the state, their acquaintances/relatives, and themselves. The State also confers upon a married couple certain privileges and benefits that they would not have otherwise.”

    Nice dodge.

    The question was “why” not “what.” The State doesn’t legitimize marriage between siblings.

    Why?

  169. Now, tell me again how somebody else’s getting married in any way affects YOUR marriage? It threatens it? How does that work?

    You’re really not picking up on my dispute, are you? If you and Rutherford want to believe him having his tongue up your ass is normal behavior while he’s been boned with a broom handle and that represents marital coitus, fine by me. Have at it, gang.

    But the fact that we’re now even having to discuss what constitutes the oldest relationship on the entire planet is so ludicrous, the absolute cornerstone of all of civilization and now even that definition called into question, we’ve definitely crossed the Rubicon as a country. There is no where left to go – the cycle of meiotic division complete. Time for both cells to travel to different destinations.

    Why don’t we end this charade, Pfesser? You’re tired of the Reblblicans and we’ve grown tired of you. Trust me, we have grown weary of you. I’m through trying to rationalize with the irrationality of lost souls and godless men. You find Christ a liar. I got it. But this isn’t a rational debate. It’s a detestable abomination. It’s an abortion.

    Let’s end the argument as good neighbors do. I’m serious as I can be. Let’s build a fence and split the cost 50/50. You can have your wall of separation. Now how could you argue with that?

    And as long as you stay on your side of the fence, I’ve got no beef with you gay marriage proponents. And I promise to leave you to your dreams of dystopia without so much as a peep, as long as you promise to never cross over to my yard for any reason, your problems are not my concern and you won’t ask, the responsibility of what happens to you and yours lies on your side of the fence. Make like Sodom and party like it’s 2016 and Hillary is President.

    If you or Huck or Rutherford that vile ass, hole wish to make the word marriage completely meaningless, which you Pfesser do a pretty bang up job of routinely without debate, I’m not going to argue with you. I’m not going to debate you. I’m not going to attempt reason with you.

    I’m going to run from you.

    Do we have a deal? 50/50. Walk away and leave it at that?

    Come on, man. Before innocent blood really does get shed. It’s coming if we don’t. Let’s end the fraud out of many, one. It’s over. It was always a pipe dream – wishful thinking. We need a divorce – let’s make it amicable and lasting.

  170. Smoking a Man of War Virtue. It’s like freebasing Werthers hard candy. I need oil to go down so I can buy a box.

  171. ET: “Nice dodge.
    The question was “why” not “what.” ”

    Actually, the question was as follows: “After reading you PF, I’m wondering why marriage serves any purpose at all in your mind. (That is not a question – PF) If it does, what is it?”

    If the first sentence was also intended as a question, the answer is the same for both “why” and “what.” If you have forgotten: “It legitimizes two people’s relationship in the eyes of the state, their acquaintances/relatives, and themselves. The State also confers upon a married couple certain privileges and benefits that they would not have otherwise.”

    I would expect that queers – being human beings like everybody else – would like to enjoy those benefits, too. Don’t you agree?

    *****************

    “The State doesn’t legitimize marriage between siblings.
    Why?”

    Consanguinity often produces the mixing of deleterious recessive genes, producing unfit offspring; the state has an interest in seeing that doesn’t happen. Same-sex couples, of course, are incapable of producing ANY offspring.

    ****************

    DR: “Why 2 for the 10th time”

    I really don’t think I understand your question, but I’ll take a stab at what I THINK you are getting at:

    The reason there is no danger of laws’ being altered to allow marriage of multiple people is because the public has practically zero interest in legalizing marriage for any number of people other than two.

    Is that what you are asking? If not, you’re going to have to explain your question more.

    I have to tell you, when we are down to this level of nit-picking in order to find a problem with same-sex marriage, the debate is over. It’s going to happen – and we all know it, don’t we?

  172. Tex: “Come on, man. Before innocent blood really does get shed. It’s coming if we don’t.”

    Tex, I’m going to put on my doctor hat here, and I’m completely serious.

    You need help. If I thought for a minute that you were seriously threatening me or anybody else on this blog with “real bloodshed,” I would have the FBI at your door within the hour, because as you know, it is a felony to threaten anyone over the Internet. I know you are overly emotional, and perhaps even a little unbalanced, but I’m going to tell you this time and one time only: the next time you make a statement like that, I will personally contact the authorities.

    Now, go get a drink and calm down, before I do that very thing. I mean it sincerely.

  173. That’s exactly what I was asking. Odd hearing pro gay marriage people appeal to the masses since that has been such a disaster in the past. ( maybe not now).

    I don’t know if you even read most of what I post, but I think the constitution will end up beng on your side.

    But that has nothing to do with public will. Seems to me you are very inconsistent in your defense going with anything ranging from I told you so to the will of the people. Odd, seems like you may be rooting for this to happen just to stab Christains.

    This is ultimalty a constitutional conversation. And that is why polygamy is so important. Or even siblings.

  174. And good night, all. I plan to have a long personal talk with Rutherford the moment I am able to contact him. Then I will decide what to do.

  175. There was no threat there asshole. Wtf? You just threatened him with the authorities? You are a bitch.

  176. I would have the FBI at your door within the hour, because as you know, it is a felony to threaten anyone over the Internet. I know you are overly emotional, and perhaps even a little unbalanced, but I’m going to tell you this time and one time only: the next time you make a statement like that, I will personally contact the authorities.

    Okay, Lori. I take it you didn’t like my offer of building a fence to prevent such a war? I thought that was a damn gentlemanly gesture on my behalf. One of my best. Was it your part of the cost you didn’t like? Do the authorities have any idea of the assassin you pose yourself as, Dirty Harry? He never misses either.

    Tell you what I’ll do. I’ll go one better. You have me arrested and I’ll forward those monstrous claims of yours to the military so they can hire you on. 😉

    Rutherford has my email address. By all means forward this to Rutherford so he can forward it to the FBI. I can hardly wait to be the one charged with the felony for stating what half the nation is saying about the palpable feeling of the nation coming apart at the the seams and toward civil war.

    I have a prediction. I won’t be the one they think needs treatment.

    Sincerely…

    Lori Taylor

  177. Funny thing is I’ve read Pfessor several times saying the exact same thing about violent clashes in America. What a huge bitch he is.

    He’s got to be drunk.

  178. Loaded to the gills. I think what he meant to say was I’ll put on my lampshade because I can’t find my doctor’s hat.

    I was just giving old Doc, and his FBI the chance to get rid of Rebiblicans and Dominionists without much trouble. 😛

  179. Let me help you out, lampshade. Have a good long talk. 😉

    Contact Rutherford

    Here are a couple of options for you to get in touch with me.

    1. Send me a message via the contact form below.

    2. Simply write me at rutherfordblog@gmail.com.

    I’m looking forward to hearing from you!

    If you want to be a guest on The Rutherford Lawson Show on web radio, use the form below to tell me the topic you’d like to discuss. If you’ve written a book that you’d like to discuss, let me know that also!

    Just trying to be helpful.

  180. The medical examiner is a biased, scripted yet incoherent, idiot.

    As slippery as KY Jelly. I cannot believe he would be a witness for the prosecution or defense. He hurts any case he testifies on. He can’t f*cking remember what he did YESTERDAY???

    Tigre I’m sorry you and I have had such bad blood over this case cos I’d love to talk with you about all the legal stuff. I find this (and most trials) fascinating. Just today I learned what a Richardson hearing is!!! 🙂

  181. I have one parting wish as I go to bed tonight —

    WOULD EVERYONE PLEASE CALM THE FUCK DOWN?!

    I have one more 10 hour workday ahead of me and then I’ll review this thread (particularly the gay marriage debate) in detail and then declare what the right answer is. 😉

  182. I don’t believe Dr. Frankenstein has a “large number of gay friends” like he claims. I don’t believe he has a large numbers of friends period. Women cant stand him and I doubt that men can either. His social IQ is on par with Gary Busey. After the motorcycle wreck. His stories are always just a little off too. Like certain word for word detailed memories that always happen to conveniently support his jive.

  183. WOULD EVERYONE PLEASE CALM THE FUCK DOWN?!

    I would, but I think I saw G-Men scurrying through my backyard with magnifying glasses looking for clues. Now my wife can’t sleep with the Dominionists I hired standing guard. 😐

    I pledge allegiance to Dear Leader Barack.

  184. “If you and Rutherford want to believe him having his tongue up your ass is normal behavior while he’s been boned with a broom handle and that represents marital coitus, fine by me. Have at it, gang.”

    I am pretty sure this is where the drunk rabbit jumps in…

  185. “His social IQ is on par with Gary Busey. After the motorcycle wreck.”

    😆 😆 😆

    A couple of scotches and the sounds of fireworks must have caused some kind of flashback for our Walter Mitty last night.

  186. I spoke to Rutherford, who is too busy earning a living to really keep close tabs on what goes on here. After reviewing Tex’s latest drama queen offering, he assured me that it was well, just more drama queen.

    Maybe so, but, “Do we have a deal? 50/50. Walk away and leave it at that? Come on, man. Before innocent blood really does get shed. It’s coming if we don’t.” – doesn’t sound like more drama to me, but I’ll take R’s word for it.

    That’s the problem with written exchanges. All the underlying intent is lost, so I’ll let it go at that. But you, Tex, need to calm down. You have no idea how close I came to dialing the phone last night. You can thank Rutherford, for whom you have, apparently, no respect at all, for that. I would suggest you buy that tutorial on argumentation from The Learning Company, that I have been recommending for two years now, and learn how to get your point across. I’ll give you a hint: lunacy and blind rage don’t do it. Shit like you pulled last night is how unintended bad things happen. Grow up.

  187. Let me tell you what really happened, Mr. Busey. There wasn’t a damn thing personally threatening to you about that post. That’s about as close as I can come to offering a man of your virtue an olive branch.

    No, you’ve been tweaking the dummy’s noses for so long at Fat Grannies and other holes, you’re not used to somebody sticking their foot up your ass in return when you start the one-side, patronizing crap.

    I may have little respect for Rutherford’s politics or his opinions, but I have innumerable respect for him allowing people to speak their minds openly, without threat from the FBI. 🙄

    You’re not going to turn Rutherford against me anymore than he’s already against me. Fortunately, you can’t change the most redeeming value about Rutherford either.

    If you want ratchet up the fight, you do the dirty work coward and leave Rutherford out of it. This is our fight.

    I wasn’t teasing about the fence. I feel trapped. I don’t want to be part of a country that is completely immoral, callous and inbred too – a disgrace and unhealthy environment to my children. Why do you think I’m practically begging you to let “us” go peacefully, in a comprehensive and peaceful manner and for a plot of land and a wall, remove what ails you? You should welcome that offer if you’re serious.

    My America is incapable of being governed by men like you. And it is being governed by men like you, though it wasn’t always that way.

    Gay marriage isn’t America. It’s not place to raise a family. It’s Sodom.

  188. Pfessor……I’m trying to find your post where you refered to yourself and all gun owners as lone wolves, capable and willing of striking violently if gun control legislation goes to far.

    Fuck you and your snitch bullying. You clearly were not threatened, you pansy. He said he wants to run from you and then alluded to a possible cultural war that looms. You have alluded to “blood” several times in the same way.

    You, sir, should be ashamed of yourself. Impossible to respect you.

    You actually owe everyone here an apology. Threatening to rein the police state down on him, and by default all of us, for THAT? Go read it again.

    You stupid drunk. Look at you trying save face, now. I’d be perfectly understanding if you admitted you drank a few too many.

    Man, do I know the type of dude you are now. Repent, bitch!

  189. FWIW I read Tex different than PF did as well. Seems any of the regulars here should have garnered the knowledge that Tex is in the camp that feels the divisions and polarization seen in the USA have reached past the tipping point. That folks abound who see secession or at least Constitutionally supported segregation & free association is a reality. It is also a reality many of these folks desire to avoid violence just as there are some real nutters amongst them.
    Breaking it down its simple enough.

  190. You guys put a whole new spin on ‘doing the nasty’. Remember, the NSA is ALREADY MONITORING the intertubes, so reporting to authorities is really redundant and unnecessary. I really think they don’t care if we take each other out as long as we don’t threaten to dismantle their police state. I think it has been the plan all along. At least many factors point to that as intent and purpose.

    I really don’t think gays are as much a threat as psychopaths already are to our society. Now, if you consider gay psychopaths, THAT might be a problem. Militant gays, like fanatical religious zealots, can be a threat to a civil society. But then again, capitalism has done a number on all of us and with the state’s stamp of approval.

    The gay marriage and abortion debates are not going to be resolved by laws or debate. Human nature will win out every time and find a way. If you don’t want these activities in your neighborhood, build an isolation wall. It won’t fully protect you from these ideas and concepts and certainly won’t stop them from happening, but you can achieve a degree of separation to keep your conscience pure. That is what we really want, a clear and guilt-free conscience. I think that is what we all strive for, consciously or not.

  191. Point well-taken, poolman.

    Rutherford, I know you are getting pounded by your job and this little slice of Bellvue is, or should be, pretty far down on the priorities list, but if you have the time or the inspiration, now might be a good time for a new topic.

  192. Good find, Noah. Let us never forget that Barack “Hussein” Obama, while radically transforming America and winning his Nobel Peace Prize, said as recently as last week, we have “Morsi’s” back.

  193. Do you have any suggestions for him PF.?
    I would offer some meaty ones but as you sort of point out he doesn’t have the time even if he had the inclination.
    For example he could look a little at Egypt and how the Arab Spring is a lot different than people think.
    Being the domestic guy he is he could look at the jobs number and pitch the faux wood whilst ignoring that prices are up and unemployment still at the stubborn 7.9% level of reported unemployed Americans.
    Another he could look at and actually have some fun and intellectual umph with would be stories out of Georgia and Alabama looking at the illegal migrant farm workers and how the big bad GOP immigration laws having been neutered have seen a stabilization of the illegal numbers and farmers access to their slave labor. I would love him to take this one up personally given the immigration mythology afoot regards immigration reform and overall short sighted ness of US. Policy makers.

  194. So let me get this straight. After you have been Mirandized, everything you say can be used against you, but, you are not allowed to use what you say for your defense?

    The police try to trick Zimmerman by telling him the incident is probably all on camera. Zimmerman’s response is one of instant relief.

    Yet, the judge throws this out of trial?

    And, did you see Zimmerman’s brown relatives speaking in highly accented English? White Hispanic? Disgusting liberals and their engineered racial conflict.

    I’m hereby making promise not to argue politics if I don’t shit about the topic. By only picking up MSM snippets and headlines, I was totally swayed to be not only uninformed but actually wrong.

    Tigre…..I was a fucking moron.

  195. I will toss in one last bit on the gay marriage thing though since Rutherford has promised his return will see he ruling what is right thus surely ending all discussion.
    Marriage isn’t a government concept but one it accepted and co-opted via government being made up of churchgoers for like ever.
    Much of the how’s and why government gets high on marriage should actually be torn from it and folks should re envision what government of the people for the people etc. should look like.
    If we want to rule on terms of the evolution of times really the only solution is that government should heavily regulate civil unions.
    PF you come of insanely naive when you think precedents are not starting to set. This is happening because legislatures and courts are setting out backassed on the issue. In many places they are not creating an equality but another set of specials. Doing this only assures future specials coming forth.
    Lastly I too find you full of it. You attend a church for social reasons? Ok I guess but if you attend a church that accepts homosexuality I have to tell you ou don’t really attend a church. You can think that wrong but it is the churches rights to preach and pray against homosexuality. When someone tries to prevent them,tries to stop them….well then you’ve got bigger worries than your fantasy fears of Tex. preaching against homosexuality can NEVER EVER become equal to screaming fire in a theater,even one doing the bird cage.

  196. For the record and full disclosure my position is:
    Marriage is a rite of religion and is private
    All marriages should for public issues be declared civil unions,this includes taxation,visitations,property,etc.
    Society is better off when people unite in common bounds such as marriage.
    On the often related hot button issue of adoption…
    I don’t believe homosexuals should be allowed to adopt heterosexual children.
    I do not support interracial adoption even though I support interracial marriage,I’m still working this one out.
    I absolutely do not support single parent adoption.

  197. @ Rutherford
    I retread your post which I still don’t like but I found a nugget of truth in it finally.
    Up in the opening you brought up “in polite society” and it hit me,the mutual epiphany. That’s just it,we don’t live in a polite society anymore….not by a stretch.

  198. “I do not support interracial adoption even though I support interracial marriage,I’m still working this one out.”

    Really? Why? If we ended up infertile…and it looked like we were heading that way for a while….I would have adopted a black kid and raised him with his head high like any other Dead Rabbit.

    I would have taught him the phrase “Fuck You!” early and gave him permission to use it every time any black assholes gave him shit for talking like a cracker.

    In fact….I should adopt a black kid. I wish the process wasn’t such bull shit.

  199. Alfie: “PF you come of insanely naive when you think precedents are not starting to set.”

    I never said anything like that. Sure, everything done in a new way sets a precedent, but to my mind, setting precedent is always a non-issue; you do what is right and let the chips fall. History will sort it out.

    Let me give you an analogy: Do you think the Fla. jury should convict Zimmerman, because if they don’t, there will be rioting? I don’t; they should do what their consciences say and then deal with the consequences, whatever they be. Ditto you-know-what.

    “In many places they are not creating an equality but another set of specials. Doing this only assures future specials coming forth.”

    Says you. I don’t agree.

    You can’t be paralyzed by fear of what might happen; you have to step up to the plate and make decisions. If they are the right ones, things will be OK; if not, then you fix it. But doing nothing is a decision, too, isn’t it? It’s the decision to leave things like they are. Read MLK’s “Letter from a Birmingham Jail.” I read it once every year. He reserved his most blistering criticism for the white “moderates” who said, “We’re not ready for this change right now.” If not now, when? If not us, who?

    “You attend a church for social reasons?”

    No, I won’t listen to preaching. We are members because that is the most efficient vehicle in this county through which to do charity work. They accept us and we accept them because we work side-by-side, we all work hard, and we have the mutual respect to not proselytize. I admire these people because they understand the word “tolerance,” and that it is more than just a word. We don’t get bogged down in soul-saving; we all have bigger fish to fry.

    “Ok I guess but if you attend a church that accepts homosexuality I have to tell you ou don’t really attend a church.”

    I show these people the respect of not asking them their feelings on the matter, but I would assume they are against it.

    “You can think that wrong but it is the churches rights to preach and pray against homosexuality.”

    It is. And mine to argue against them.

    “When someone tries to prevent them,tries to stop them….”

    Nobody’s done that.

  200. Rabbit you are a moron but not for the reason you think.

    I knew it was just a matter of time before you abandoned your common sense and bought into what is at this point irrelevant racial outrage.

    You rightfully sense something wrong with Zimmerman playing Deputy Dawg but you’re willing to let that go by the wayside.

    Zimmerman was overcharged. I don’t have a problem with that. But he unnecessarily shot an unarmed man. The evidence is showing he might not have been getting a LIFE THREATENING ass whupping.

    But at least El Tigre will forgive your “ignorance” and be best buds with you again. 🙄

  201. “But he unnecessarily shot an unarmed man.”

    How do you know it wasn’t necessary?

    “The evidence is showing he might not have been getting a LIFE THREATENING ass whupping.”

    What evidence is that?

    And most importantly, does the determination of what is and isn’t life threatening get made in the courtroom or does it get made by the guy getting his face beaten as someone goes for his gun and tells him “you’re going to die”?

    And what evidence is there that those things didn’t happen? A girlfriend who lies about writing letters she can’t even read? A step-brother who lies about being able to tell it’s Travon’s voice? A doctor who can’t remember what he did yesterday?

  202. R, the reason I won’t discuss Zimmerman or the law with you is not only because you disregard every word of it within moments, you actually prefer ignorance to avoid any contradictions in the dumb narratives you’ve been delivered. The stupid shit at your 271 yet another example.

    R, you honestly haven’t got a lick of common sense or the analytical ability to comprehend what you’re watching, let alone determine what constitutes as bona fide factual controversy in this case. To you, everything is some made for t.v. movie morality play where you decide who you the better one is, never understanding that one or both of them can be right or wrong and that doesn’t determine guilt of ANYTHING.

    Fuck. you actually think the evidence shows that Zimmerman couldn’t have been in “imminent fear of serious bodily injury or death” after being sucker punched by a suspicious stranger who got on top of him and started pounding him. He didn’t need a scratch on him to have to derive that reasonable apprehension. I’d like to forgive you for not having the life experience to visualize a confrontation like the one you’re opining about, one which anyone her that’s been stunned and disoriented from a sucker punched can relate to, but you actually use your lack of knowledge to resolve rather than raise questions about whether the legal standards that you generally ignore exist. And that’s unforgivable.

    You may now return to your mindlessly repetitious chanting about what’s going on in the case.

  203. Zimmerman was overcharged. I don’t have a problem with that. But he unnecessarily shot an unarmed man. The evidence is showing he might not have been getting a LIFE THREATENING ass whupping.

    That’s why Trayvon™ told Zimmerman, “You’re gone to die, Mofo” as angel Trayvon™ attempted to put his hand over Zimmerman’s mouth, topped off with Trayvon™’s mother lying about “thats my son’s voice done screman. Ummm hmmmm, sursz is. Ummmm hmmmm.

    Old black Bro enabling Young Black Bro of extremely bad behavior because, because, because….

    He ain’t no crazy azz cracka…

    Get dat pinky!!!! 👿

  204. I can’t remember where I heard this but evidently the cops tried to trick Zimmerman by saying that the shooting had been caught on video and Zimmerman seemed noticeably relieved.

    I also recall a while back that Zimmerman says (on videotape) that he was yelling for help before he knew they had the tape with the screaming on it (not the trick tape, the 911 call recording of the screaming).

    I thought putting on the Zimmerman family before leaving for the weekend and them echoing in reverse practically verbatim what the Martin family testified to regarding the screaming was brilliant.

    Also, I was nodding practically the whole time that O’Mara was asking for the charges to be dismissed. I along with everyone else expected the motion would be denied but I thought if the defense case and closing arguments are as good as that motion there was no 2nd degree murder committed.

    Not that any of that matters really, all it takes is one juror.

    Tigre, Zimmerman’s lawyers asked for the verdict instruction to be read before they presented their case reminding the jury of something. Do you know what I’m taking about and if so – can you explain that briefly enough?

  205. Tigre @ #273 – I want your card. (There’s one (rather lengthy sentence in that comment that is mindblowingly penetrating. I’ll leave you to guess which one it is.)

  206. I admire these people because they understand the word “tolerance,” and that it is more than just a word. We don’t get bogged down in soul-saving; we all have bigger fish to fry.

    Browbeaten into silence under the demands of fascist tyranny and not tolerance…

    Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

  207. ”When the fuck did this become Fat Grannies?” -Huck

    I suppose we all have our own answer to that question, Huck, including you. By the way, my answer to your question about abortion vs gay parents is that it’s a no brainer. I eavesdrop in on liberals discussing abortion enough to have heard that “the [fetus] was better off aborted” more than once – usually because the baby would have been born into poverty. I don’t agree. Were you trying to make a point with the question?

    PS…I respect that you may decide against venturing back into the minefield.

  208. Rutherford, serious questions.

    Does the clearly racist behavior of Rev. Al Sharpton, Rev. Je$$e Jackson, and former NAACP Chairman Julian Bond ever give you pause?

    Does it bother you that a racist like Al Sharpton would have a TV program with guests on your channel of nightly viewing?

    Would you consider it embarrassing if FOX News gave David Duke a prime time programming show?

  209. “Browbeaten into silence…”

    You bet.

    ”You have no idea how close I came to dialing the phone last night. You can thank Rutherford, for whom you have, apparently, no respect at all, for that.”

    So if Rutherford hadn’t talked him down – Doc would have called the cops on Tex?

    *shiver*

    (PS…R, remember that the next time you try to embarrass me for asking you to take down that comment I wrote about Doc’s chicaneries. Recall that the only other time I asked you to do that was when I felt I had given out too much identifiable information on Fat Grannie’s real author.)

  210. Muffy, I don’t know about the charging. However, I have asked in some cases for a “pre-charge” of certain standards and that, at least here, is within the discretion of the judge. The determination is on a charge-by-charge basis and generally you prevail on the judge to decide that the pre-charge will help the jury understand the testimony to come. In other words, the legal standards are, for the most part, to come at the end of the case after the evidence is in and before the jury applies the law to the facts. Again though, I wasn’t familiar with the request if one had been made.

    The best was the dumb inclusion of the professor/teacher that the prosecution opened the door to explain self-defense and second degree murder with reference to this case. I laughed my ass off. Had the prosecution not again proffered a false narrative (somehow Zimmerman used his knowledge of the law to cover-up his execution of a an unarmed child because he was black) it never would’ve happened.

    O’Mara’s motion for directed verdict had no chance to succeed. If it did, Zimmerman never would’ve been indicted. It has to go to verdict, and then, if guilt found, the only serious decision this judge might make is whether to set aside the verdict.

    Keep in mind, the prosecution has rested its case. What you’ve seen is as good as it gets. R might seem to think there’s more to come, but that’s it. That’s all they ever had. And every bit of it known by the prosecution prior to trial and when it decided to indict.

    That’s what makes me outraged — not what R seems to think is a distraction. Incredibly, R disregards the implied racial components of the case as hyperbolic or emotion-laden when, in fact, they are central to the prosecutions case to make out the mens rea for a conviction. So central to it case that they had to manufacture evidence to support — get this — an “inference” of racial animus. Even worse is that in the face of its complete inability to prove the racial motive it relied on initially, it has deliberately set out to distort the facts to raise a question of who was on top do the whooping and who was yelping for help before the shot.

    It is the height of deceit for these prosecutors to advance this b.s. with the evidence that have had all along, let alone offering it as anything coming close to meeting its evidentiary burden to obtain a conviction that it is obligated t guard.

    I’m not certain which line did it for you. Frankly, I said the same thing different ways on numerous occasions already. But I’ll accept the flattery. 😉

  211. Huck, I missed your question earlier, but I am beginning to pick up on the premise of your question. I promise I never attempt to duck questions concerning issues I find relevant.

    Would we prefer a homosexual couple adopt a child, if the alternative choice was abortion? Did I get that right?

    If so, obviously the answer is yes. But I find the question suspect, being that at least with white and Asian children, willing and adoptive parents (male/female) are spending thousands in the hopes of having an opportunity to adopt – so much so, they’ve gone overseas to adopt babies by the thousands from the former Eastern bloc countries. Last statistic I heard, there are approximately 24 white couples (male and female) available to every white child in America. There is no need of homosexual adoption.

    I’m sure you have been subjected to the many homosexuals reverting to in vitro as I am sure you have witnessed many of the Hollywood crowd paraded out as the “new family.” Kids are now commodities to be traded like baseball cards after 55MM legalized abortions, I might add.

    I don’t know the status of black children adoption, but there have been many instances where the black community has refused adoption to white couples.

    Ask me, that question should be posed to the black community first, being they are the only ones the question would not be considered specious.

  212. “The determination is on a charge-by-charge basis and generally you prevail on the judge to decide that the pre-charge will help the jury understand the testimony to come.”

    O’Mara doesn’t want the jury weighing the testimony on the fly against the burden of proof of a lesser charge then I assume.

  213. Rutherford,

    They have one doctor who said he MIGHT not have been beat repeatedly. You have a motherfucker opening is front door and SEEING Trayvon ground and pound Trayvon.

    “Zimmerman was overcharged. I don’t have a problem with that.” -R

    Oh….I know you don’t have a problem with that. If you did you would be sick in your pants over what NBC et al did to frame this for something it wasn’t. And I’m talking North Korea type propaganda ranging from Photoshop to phone call editing. Even your horrible president that you pretend doesn’t exist anymore played a major role in this.

    You think there might have been a 3rd degree in there some where? Guess what, rube, we will never know thanks to a lying liberal media, an asshole President and a politically motivated prosecution. YOU ARE THE REASON WE CAN’T GET A 3RD DEGREE CHARGE IF IT SO EXISTS.

    Do you think I’m giving in to the pressure of mighty Tigre? You seriously think that’s how I roll? I love finding fault with that stealthy bastard.
    ***************************************************************************************
    As for Pfesoor…..take a fucking hike, brah. You owe this room an apology but I’m guessing guys like you don’t do that much.

  214. Muffy, that would make sense and I am certain is the objective (though I didn’t know he had made the request). However, I don’t think that’s the standard for pre-charging. It isn’t here (GA). The jury is supposed to reserve their application of the facts to the law (instructions) for their deliberations. That is why getting all of that in through Zimmerman;s criminal justice prof. was so damn amusing to me. The fact that he was black and obviously liked Zimmerman (said “hi” to him when he took the stand) and considered him a good student was a bonus.

    The request to charge on the lesser included offense of manslaughter at this stage totally fucks up the prosecution too. Remember all the promises baseless flourish in its opening would now go unproven by what has rolled out. Openings are promises of what you’re going to show. Unfulfilled promises are ripe for hammering in closings. Any lawyer worth a shit can grind on that. O’Mara seems capable. That will be worth watching.

  215. BTW, the pre-charges that I’ve requested are generally related to terms (or art) or concepts (definitions) that might be used/referenced throughout the case but not legal standards. The procedures for instructing juries are state specific though. For example, GA doesn’t allow jury instructions to go back with the jury. They are read by the judge once through with the expectation that the jury will remember them. Recharging when the jury is stuck (e.g. they might have forgotten what the definition of reasonable doubt or depraved mind is and ask for clarification) touches off a whole new battle outside the presence of the jury. The opponent will generally argue that by re-reading just one charge to the exclusion of all others gives it undue weight.

    Most other jurisdictions where I’ve tried a case will have the charges printed and sent back with the jury to look at all they want. I don’t know about FL.

  216. The Fat Grannies question was because that was the first and last place I saw someone talk about calling the authorities on someone else over a fucking blog comment.

    At this point, I am so disgusted I don’t even give a damn about the other question.

  217. Huck: The Fat Grannies question was because that was the first and last place I saw someone talk about calling the authorities on someone else over a fucking blog comment.”

    And, oddly enough, it involved the same person. Quel surprise.

    When the only way you know how to disagree is by flinging your arms in all directions, screaming insults and name-calling, sometimes people get the idea that maybe you intend to hurt them, especially when you talk about hurting them and don’t make it clear that you are engaging in some bizarre metaphor. I grew up in a mining camp, and one thing I learned very early is that you take threats seriously. That kind of stupid shit is how people get killed.

    If you can’t argue with a little civility; if every time someone disagrees with you, you start frothing at the mouth, then maybe you should find another way to entertain yourself, because someday, someone is going to hurt you, or if you are lucky, you are going to just end up in jail.

    And no, that is not a personal threat.

  218. I hear you. Honestly, we’ve all been coming here long enough that if you happened to get pissed off at me and threaten violence I’ll take it with a grain of salt. One time thing…..live far away, etc. I’m not going to call the F.B.I. But Tex’s comment was not even close to being a personal threat. Not at all.

    Pfessor’s the type of guy that makes me weary of posting my stupid thoughts anonymously online.

  219. Oh cut it out with your hard scrabble mining camp shit, cock sucker. There was no threat towards you, you pussified old geezer.

    Nada. Nothing. Zilch. Plus, he lives thousands of miles away and you are armed to the teeth and, as you remind us all the time, an expert marksman.

    You are a bitch, dude. A BITCH.

    A hypocrite bitch, at that. Do you forget the things you have posted in the past?

  220. Come on Pfessor…….you told Rutherford you are one of many lone wolves capable of killing……you don’t remember that one?

  221. I said it earlier Tex at worse was alluding to secession. I don’t see how anyone thinks he was demonstrating intent to drive from OK to Va.
    dead rabbit I pick you for my wingman in any and all bar fights I ever find myself in,you are priceless man and I mean that in as manly way one can offer such a line. If nothing else I’m laughing my ass off.

  222. Sorry PF. They’re right. For all of your tough guy talk, that was pretty fucked up. Not even close to a threat and you went running for momma’s apron strings to boot.

  223. Just read a pro publication piece on temp workers in thenUSA YIKES!
    If any of the employment numbers are linked to this more reason not to be cheering.
    Other financial side note the CDN $ is in the 90’s I find this bizarre and bothersome for some investment issues. I hope it lst s to October though.

  224. “And what I said about needing help still stands. Serious help. Professional help.” Pfessor

    Man….we are weirdos who get in online political battles….we probably all need professional help.

  225. Ok Alphie….you’ve peeked my curiosity. I dabble in the FOREX a little bit…..mostly with just a play account. Are you referring to yesturday’s beat down of CAD around noon? CADUSD has been pretty stable for a couple of years. What gives?

  226. Rutherford, is there a way to make it so commenters can attach a signature file to the end of our comments?

    That way we can write up a disclaimer that we are not issuing genuine threats to anyone and not end up with the po-po up in here.

    This is seriously ridiculous.

    PF, if you came from a mining camp then you should know that snitches get stitches.

    But that wasn’t a personal threat….

  227. “Zimmerman was overcharged. I don’t have a problem with that.”

    Damn! Chalk that up to my being overtired. That is NOT what I meant to say. I meant I don’t take issue with the fact that he was overcharged. I think Tigre is clearly right on that.

    I just think the man is guilty of a lesser charge.

  228. “PS…R, remember that the next time you try to embarrass me”

    Muffy believe what you like but I wasn’t trying to embarrass you. I was trying to get a handle on your 180 behavior on this blog and toward me in particular. I greatly admired you for your restraint at the time. That was the Muffy I looked forward to reading here.

    You’ve changed or as Carole King put it “one of us is changing or maybe we just stopped trying”.

  229. “Man….we are weirdos who get in online political battles….we probably all need professional help.”

    LOL ain’t that the truth. You want a picture of needing help? I’m supposed to be in bed by now and instead I’m taking a last minute look at the blog on my iPhone while standing AT THE BATHROOM SINK before getting ready for bed.

    Now that’s f’d up.

  230. I just got a visual of all the tooth paste drool I assume leaks out of your orifice and I’m not happy about it.

  231. And, oddly enough, it involved the same person. Quel surprise.

    That was Lori, Pfesser. You know? Lori? Granny’s Lori? The same Lori that tried to out our bartender and damage his business? The same bartender you told me I don’t respect but that I have gone to war with in those that attempted to hurt him?

    And you think that observation is supposed to sober me to reality? Teach me a lesson in civility? Awaken me to my many shortcomings? Do away with my churlish nature?

    Surely, you’re not volunteering to offer yourself as witness to Lori’s testimony?

    If you can’t argue with a little civility; if every time someone disagrees with you, you start frothing at the mouth, then maybe you should find another way to entertain yourself, because someday, someone is going to hurt you, or if you are lucky, you are going to just end up in jail.

    I don’t suppose in the name of civility, I could tempt you for your sake in to putting the shovel down, quit digging and making the attempt to crawl out of the hole?

    Tell you what I’ll do – in the name of civility.

    If you will agree to leave your Christian bigotry and generic daily demeaning of my faith at the door, I’ll call of the dogs. You can call me anything you wish without a great deal of reprisal and certainly no personal threat. But I’m not going to listen to another one of your bogus charges and insult about my people, many simple but loving, incapable of defending themselves from the likes of you.

    If you can’t do that, then I guess you’ll either have to call the FBI, hurt me or have me jailed.

  232. Airliner crashes and only two dead so far. A great tribute to the training of flight attendents and the systems for getting passengers off quickly.

    Flying in an aluminum mailing tube seven miles straight up, going 550 miles/hour at 120 degrees below zero, through rain, snow, ice and high winds, with the air outside your window so thin that you would lose consciousness within seconds, is an amazing challenge. Hell, just keeping the engines lit seems impossible to me. Not to mention you can’t see a damn thing in the clouds, which often go right down to the ground. And hitting things attached to the ground will wreck your day.

    I’m just about ready to take my commercial written exam; it is hard as balls; I couldn’t imagine how tough it must be to get an Airline Transport rating. HT to those guys.

  233. 309….not for nothing but the irony is incredible.
    I just called the Boston FBI and informed them of a Virginian making threats via an Illinois based blog on a server based in either San Francisco or points unknown in the continental USA. They’re on the case.

  234. Dead rabbit I just don’t see any fundamentals that should have the CDN $ going south of the greenback. It just doesn’t make sense to me,although it will probably help them since they still have some excellent manufacturing sectors.

  235. Alfie – thanks for documenting your crime. As you know, the Internet is forever, and it’s impossible to take anything down if you get cold feet. There are significant penalties for filing false complaints, with prosecution particularly easy when you have documented it yourself. Should be an open-and-shut case.

    And, of course, the complainant will be forced to reveal his real identity – making him open to civil action as well. Laissez les bons temps rouler!

    ***************
    Now – enough nonsense.

    Poolman – I just started on what promises to be a great book:

    http://www.amazon.com/The-Party-Over-Republicans-Democrats/dp/B00D9TAQG2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373204642&sr=8-1&keywords=the+party+is+over

    The title had me from the beginning: The Party Is Over: How Republicans Went Crazy, Democrats Became Useless, and the Middle Class Got Shafted. Out of 176 Amazon reviews, about 125 are 5-star. The author is a former ReBiblican operative – his take on his own (former, I take it) party is particularly damning:

    “Like the biblical literalist, Republicans assert that the Constitution is divinely inspired and inerrant. But also like biblical literalists, they are strangely selective about those portions of their favorite document that they care to heed, and they favor rewriting it when it stands in the way of their political agenda.”

    But don’t be disappointed. He slices the Dems, particularly Hussein, a new butthole, too. He chronicles how the military has outsourced everything, so that it will not show up on their budget, and in the process has so enriched the Military Industrial Complex that it basically calls the shots now. Pretty scary.

  236. And hitting things attached to the ground will wreck your day.

    Normally so. They say landing these things is the most difficult part to learn. A witness saw the tail section hit the tarmac first, whereas the goal, I understand, is to touch down with the landing gear. Not being a pilot myself, it appears first hand to be pilot error. I expect a full investigation, complete with analysis and reconstruction. Aviation forensics. We have it down to a science. There are only 4 commercial plane crashes in recent history that we don’t have public record of these type investigations. Otherwise you can review the data of all the others, as it is made available to the public.

    You can tell this was a real plane crash without additional incendiary devices because there are still plenty of identifiable “aluminum mailing tube parts”, unlike some that totally disintegrate upon impact with dirt.

  237. PF for an alleged educated man and the self proclaimed Renaissance Man from the hills you sir are a fucking retard. My 311 was meant to show how your Internet S.W.A.T. twat threats of earlier look and how inane it is for a thread resident to make comments that attack the essence of free speech. You either took it literal which makes you a retard,or you’re just trying some more of that false swagger you swing here which makes you a pussy. Seriously what the fuck is that diatribe supposed to be. Cold feet,can’t take down,false report….too funny you’re a douchebag.

  238. I was in an air liner which undershot the runway. it was quite a surprise but nothing like what the airplane crash victims endured.

  239. Say what you want. Next time it won’t be a close thing. End of discussion

    I see the Swinging Chest Thumper can’t follow my good advice to quit digging.

    Remember this conversation next time when you’re bragging to the hags at Grannies you “never lose.”

    Thumper, it’s been observation not only do you lose more often than not here, you’re so deluded and full of yourself, you’re not hearing the collective snicker at you either.

    Now contact the FBI, Thump. 😈

  240. So are you saying you were kidding,just joshing when you threatened Tex and Rutherford for that matter with a “S.W.A.T.ting”??
    Seriously there are better dead horses to beat than this one but I’ll swing on this one as long as you want.

    The dynamics here have always been a bit charged but we’ve always been an eclectic mix that has obviously held each others interest enough to return time and again. To actually “publicly” weep and share whether it is financial (lost homes) or family (illnesses and loss) its happened here and with no small degree of apparent sincerity.
    I think this is why you’re experiencing the storm you are…
    Rutherford theres another new post suggestion… The GOP demise meme. Dead serious on this one too. It would clearly offer a lot for sharing viewpoints. There are those here convinced of its demise (calling way of the Whig) those who would deny it and all in all those that would offer reasons for and against it. In fact I think it is the one topic choice that would probably see zero agreements. On that perhaps it wouldn’t be a good idea.
    Off to the pool and grounds for a day of frolic and sweat. Cheers.

  241. Poolman –

    One of the toughest things about designing airliners is how do deal with the tail section’s being so far back. The main gear has to be pretty close to the center of gravity so that at liftoff, the tail can generate enough down-force to rotate the nose up. Unfortunately that means putting the main gear very far forward and on rotation the tail goes WAY down. Notice how the underside of the tail section slopes up sharply? That’s because the high-lift devices like slats and slotted flaps on the wings allow the airplane to rotate the nose up about 18-20 degrees for takeoff and landing. These are retracted in flight, allowing slow takeoff/landing, but high speed in flight and a very efficient use of fuel.

    The problem is that the ass-end barely clears the tarmac to begin with, and when the pilots land too nose-high and jam the tail in the ground – or too hard – it breaks the tail off.

    My guess is “pilot error.” Funny, funny winds coming into SF. Commercial pilots are on alert landing and taking off there. We’ll see.

  242. “I just got a visual of all the tooth paste drool I assume leaks out of your orifice and I’m not happy about it.”

    LOL for some reason over some five years I can’t disabuse DR of the notion that I have Cerebral Palsy. I don’t, not that there’s any thing wrong with that. I don’t drool. And I’m no messier brushing my teeth than you are. Assuming you brush your teeth. 😉

  243. “I meant I don’t take issue with the fact that he was overcharged.”

    Good God my correction was no better.

    Lets try one more time.

    I don’t deny he was overcharged.

  244. PF you’re right. The title of that book alone should have it selling like hot cakes.

    Here’s an offer for you (and anyone else interested) — if you’ve got it in you to write a book review when you’ve finished the book, write it, email it to me and I’ll publish it here on the blog with a by-line of course.

  245. What was the book that Doc recommended last time? 😆

    “The title of that book alone should have it selling like hot cakes.” -R

    Yeah, evidently others thought so too.

    An angry little Napolean?
    The entrancing title indicated a well-balanced, informative offering, but the tenor of the author is bitter and very one-sided.
    Government may indeed be broken and corruption an ongoing fact in political life, however, the author has no tenable solutions, just a lot of whining. His bias only perpetuates an ongoing problem.
    I expected an accounting type person to be logical and analytical, however, his impetus seems to be driven by gut feelings rather than from a magnificent mind.
    Someone take his crayons away from him!

    Kathryn van Heyningen
    Author “”the Whitebridge Web”

    Biased
    The title makes it sound like it will be an unbiased editorial, however, I found that its main purpose was to bash the GOP

    The book is terrible.
    I ordered this for my father and he asked me to read it. It was terrible. Filled with just bias commentary. No added insights. Nothing new. And factually in error on many cases. I was so looking forward to some added insight from a republican insider and found nothing more than bias against the republicans. Having read other books on similar topics, even as an insider, his vantage point didn’t give him much insight at all. I really didn’t like this book. My father loved it because my father is a partisan ideologue looking for any hate material on the republicans. If you too are left wing ideologue, this book will make you happy, sharing nothing new, and just more of the same MSNBC propaganda.

    Moderate verbal diarrhea
    The republican party has been taken over by loony leftists, not conservatives This book is a bunch of nonsensical bunk.

    But I do hope you give Doc a forum to review this masterpiece for our edification. It won;t make a difference at all, he’s a crackpot as has been made abundantly clear time and time again.

  246. The reviews in #328 were from Amazon. And the last paragraph was not a review but I hit Post Comment before proofreading. 🙂

    ~~

    I don’t think Doc’s going to apologize for being a horse’s ass. 😮

  247. Be that as it may, my offer still stands. Lots of good writers on this blog who could write some great reviews. Muffy and anyone else interested, feel free.

    And YES I’ll publish book reviews from staunchly conservative writers. Many of you might not know that I used to have a co-writer on this blog who was conservative. It didn’t last long–he just stopped writing.

    I’ve also published at least one piece by Huck if memory serves.

  248. I think I underestimated the anarchy in Egypt. Might cost me. Who knows, though….oil still could go down. I have some time.

  249. I think it might be time we all hold our noses and look the other way. Egypt needs an epic purge. Waiting won’t work.

    Neocons……idealistic liberals….step aside. Democracy can’t work with savages. That society is clearly debased.

    Egyptian army…..do your thing.

  250. The book review offer is fair enough but I think I’ll offer that which the book is based on for those not wanting to buy or borrow it or spend the time on the full book.
    http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/3079-goodbye-to-all-that-reflections-of-a-gop-operative-who-left-the-cult
    Although Lofgren makes some points and supports them with a mix of opinion and digestible and debatable facts he clearly has a bias and parochial view on the subject. His authorship is much like most poli-sci stuff seen these days where time in service or position is marketed as proof positive of wisdom and knowledge. A variation on a theme whether it is a pundit,broadcaster,speechwriter etc.
    I imagine it would be very hard for a GOP person to read the entire tome with an open mind since it is quite simply a slap in the face and a series of. sucker punches at a number of things one probably believes in. It’s slight shots at the democrats reeks more of feigned fairness than actual outrage or sorrow regards the two party system.
    All in all this article and its fuller book are little more than the stereotypical business ventures launched at a time,place and upon a subject that is in vogue. This shows a lack of originality and only clutters the field with filler thus dampening real discussion.

  251. Muffy, I got to work on the meek and mild part. I’ve told people before, I’m sure I’m going to heaven. But I have a sneaking suspicion my crown will be a tin hoop off a rusted three pound coffee can if I don’t quit baiting the bastards. 😆

    P.S. There’s not many things anymore that leave me speechless, but when I saw that invite, I had to pause for a minute before busting out laughing. You’re a hoot. 😆 Sorry. I had to make absolutely sure it was my Muffy.

  252. I’m with you, Rabbit. I don’t even render suggestions on what ails the Egypts and Syrias of the world anymore, much less offer solutions. Hopeless.

    Of course, I’m beginning to think the same thing about our country, but at least we’re not resorting to tossing live bodies off buildings yet.

    Our problem isn’t savagery. It’s inanity, irresponsibility, greed and apathy.

  253. Huck,

    I take it you’ve seen Full Metal Jacket? You must if you know the characters. I was going to tell you that was available on NetFlix too or at least it used to be.

    I’ve seen that 10 times and there are still parts that give me a belly laugh. Two movies in one.

  254. I have never in my adult life gotten on an airplane without thinking “why am I volunteering to be flung through the air in a glorified tin can?”

    I don’t have anxiety attacks when I fly but I’m not altogether happy either.

  255. ” Democracy can’t work with savages. That society is clearly debased.”

    While I have real problems with the word savages I tend to agree with Rabbit. Every country we have meddled in supposedly establishing democracy has blown up in our face. Some cultures NEED a dictator. They cannot handle democracy.

    Not a popular notion but damn do we need Hussein, Kadaffi and Mubarek back again.

  256. Rutherford your vision os clouded by the security you enjoy in America. Egypt is having an exciting and necessary fit. Certain biases I think keep people from appreciating some of the dynamics occurring in Egypt are the same as those seen in Romania back in the day. The lesson then and now,and quite possibly a couple of EU nations is all about the youth. Actual youth and the energy they bring both to old ideas and longing for newness is something we dont get to enjoy or fear here in the states.

  257. Fuck this Fat Grannies bullshit.

    I’m outta here.

    It was bad enough when we were making only half-hearted jokes about the NSA reading our stuff. Now we have to genuine concern about the FBI doing it because we never know when PF might get a bug up his ass about 1 of Tex’s comments and call in the law.

  258. The FBI brouhaha:

    I’ve privately confessed to PF my puzzlement at the affront he took from Tex. Tex was simply exercising that rhetorical flourish for which he is well known: predicting bloody civil war between those who agree with him and all the others ruining our great nation. 🙄

    But I confess to being equally puzzled by the strong backlash against PF, that is until Huck’s most recent comment.

    Huck’s comment implicitly reminded me that there are some on this blog whose very livelihoods and academic pursuits depend on their anonymity here. Public threats to contact law enforcement over a comment jeopardize that anonymity for everyone here. I think that’s why the threat gave so many the creeps. Consider that my most vicious opponents were outraged on my behalf when I was outed on FG. Breaking that wall between this anonymous place and our “real” lives is not considered cool.

    If folks can’t express themselves without fear that a misunderstanding might have the FBI at their door then the entire enterprise falls apart.

    I have said in the past that, with the exception of Elric, no one will be banned here unless they cause me legal liability. I suggest going forward that if anyone feels they have actually been personally threatened with violence that they refrain from reacting ON THE BLOG and instead contact me personally. If I agree a threat has been made the offender will be banned.

    Any legal action anyone here wishes to take is their own business but threatening those actions here on the blog causes people to fear exercising their free speech. It has ripples that go far beyond the offended and the offender.

  259. On a related note, whenever some nutjob goes off and kills people his Internet trail makes folks wonder “why didn’t someone intervene”?

    It’s a worry that should go through the mind of every blog owner. I don’t know what to do with that worry.

    I read a blog years ago written by a desperate man on the edge (if you believe what he wrote) and he clearly threatened he would do harm to others and then himself. I never reported his blog to anyone in law enforcement and I’ve wondered about it ever since.

    The blogosphere is a weird place folks.

  260. Rutherford you have options available to you if you ever feel really moved by content you come across especially content on your own “e turf” . I have run traces on a number of folks who have either attacked me in some manner or otherwise infringed on my identity,some of which I listed in my latest post.
    Seriously though haven’t the residents figured each other out enough and mustered a modicum of respect for one another to recognize shit??!!
    For crying out loud poolman is the last guy to make my Christmas card list and he has driven me bonkers at least three times but even with we’ve engaged each a number of times with some respect and mutual intellectual goodness/fairness,at least checking each others sources and replying even if almost never agreeing and hell that has even happened. I can say that much for myself anyway,I don’t know how he feels. Even PF and I have had at it twice anyway and until this I dont think either thought the other so #$%^&**@(() !

  261. predicting bloody civil war between those who agree with him and all the others ruining our great nation

    Yeah, I know. I know. I’m always amazed that liberals find themselves so bulletproof. Here and thereafter… I would have thought of all people, Jim Duggan had taught you an invaluable lesson. Guess not.

    Well, since you want to be nasty…

    About five years ago as you and yours danced and sang, hobgoblins genuflecting to the Styrofoam messiah, you also rolled your eyes at me too when I forewarned you in one of those vacuous Obama fireplace thingies, life would grow bleak.

    Looking up these days, Romeo? 😐

    Guess I can always fall back on that predictive point of flourishing rhetoric if all else fails.

    Next five year bomb to drop – IRS assisted triage. Hope you can fake it.

  262. Tex you lost me on that last one. The IRS is gonna come after me?

    Seriously, explain that one. I don’t get it.

    P.S. what was Jim Duggan supposed to have taught me? That people die?

  263. I have never in my adult life gotten on an airplane without thinking “why am I volunteering to be flung through the air in a glorified tin can?”
    I don’t have anxiety attacks when I fly but I’m not altogether happy either.

    Come fly with me – or sit with me as I study for my commercial rating. Or, let’s fly on an airliner together. The public has not even a 1 percent idea of the systems and training – or the level of each – that makes airliners work.

    And if you think it’s a tin can, you are WAY out in left field. The kinds of stresses an airliner deals with every minute would put any other machine to shame.

  264. “LOL for some reason over some five years I can’t disabuse DR of the notion that I have Cerebral Palsy.”

    Don’t worry about it, R – he thinks I’m 75 years old, too. LOL I swear I’m not a day over 74-7/8.

  265. The blogosphere is a weird place folks.

    And full of weird folks, too. The blogosphere, like art, is a reflection of society. Sometimes it isn’t very pretty. But we all choose to interact. Most days I could do without the drama.

    Random thought here. I was eating left over Chinese food and noticed the container, the typical cardboard box with oriental characters and a fishing boat depicted on the side. I turned it over and printed on the bottom was “made in USA”. Cracked me up.

    Ah, the little things. They seem to have a thriving business and it is the whole family that works there. I doubt they could survive in their country in the same business. I think they are from Vietnam, anyway. I think my local Italian pizza joint is owned and operated by Romanians. Again, the whole family works there.

    We lost something in this land when we decided everyone needed to go to school and get a degree and then a career. These foreigners have succeeded in business and support entire families. They also seem to pay cash for whatever they buy.

  266. I’m ducking out of here for awhile myself. I waited a little bit to see if Pfessor would apologize but that ain’t happening. Even if he was actually threatened, I’d still say he is a massive douche bag. Not to be a drama queen, but it sincerely bothers me that this chump threatened Tex with the FBI for nothing.

    It’s kind of embaressing how the guy thinks he can just keep posting as if any of us give a shit what he says at this point.

    Hell…..Ive already blabbed about too much here anyways. These are odd times and the climate for the 1st amendment has been eroding. I don’t need some insecure puffed up peacock, a legend in his own mind, making my real life even remotely more complicated.
    I have no idea what the FBI would do if it combed through this site after Pfessor made his damsel in distress call, and I don’t want to find out. Not that leaving helps get rid of all my posts. It would be awesome if Rutherford could nuke the past here, but I know it’s not possible.

    Later fellas (and ladies).

    R thanks for being a good sport through the years. I know that you know that I know that you know that I know you don’t have cerebral palsy.

  267. Well the small upside to this was seeing that most everyone here knows bullshit when they smell it, excusing the usual outliers. The downside outweighs that by tons unfortunately. And the wash is that Rutherford concludes that Doc was acting in earnestness though perhaps perplexingly sensitive to Tex’s usual “rhetorical flourish.”

    Disappointing. 😦

    I recognize there isn’t much you can do about it anyway, R.

    Tex has every reason to be royally pissed off and offended by Doc’s racket. As appalled as the rest of us were maybe the fact that he isn’t dramatizing the insult should be acknowledged. To his credit, he’s demonstrated remarkable aplomb.

    Alfie a special thanks for providing almost as much sage commentary as was needed to keep everyone coming back. Maybe Huck will venture back in, though the safety of this place has definitely been challenged.

    (PS…Tex, I reckoned you’d be somewhat leery. 😆 )

  268. I was writing while rabbit’s comment came in.

    Awesome.

    Well. If Tex and Tigre go, I’m right behind them. I will not live long in a blog-world without rabbit’s verbal offerings. Yeah, rhetorical flourish. Big fuckin deal.

  269. Leery, but highly entertained at the thought. Actually, a stroke of brilliance, Muffy. That is, unless you’ve got me so bamboozled, you’re a Secret Granny agent and I’m too blind at your charms. 😉

    I was thinking of penning something on Rutherford’s behalf ripping the shews to shreds, as “R”‘s too whipped to fight against the nags. But then he had to go and make the lame intent at insult. I’m going to feed him to Lori. 😛 Nah, not really. That might be perceived as bodily threat. Hrmph. Hrmph. Blow Job! Blow Job!

    ——–

    The IRS is gonna come after me? Seriously, explain that one. I don’t get it.

    {holds head in hands, peeking out between fingers}

    I thought you were educated and well versed? A political aficionado? “R”, who is it that is going to enforce our new healthcare? Think hard. Go slow. Look straight ahead. Here’s a hint. Search for Tea Party…

    P.S. what was Jim Duggan supposed to have taught me? That people die?

    You’re getting warmer. You forgot two something; young/unexpected.

  270. Regarding the gay marriage debate, things couldn’t be simpler. Everyone who wants it illegal is wrong. Real simple.

    1. Marriage in USA is not exalted. 50% or more of them fail. So please stop talking about the precious institution. It ain’t precious. Perhaps if all the sturm und drang surrounding gay marriage were directed at keeping hetero’s in their marriages the divorce rate would go down.

    2. The wedding is religious, the marriage is legal. I know the wedding ceremony is a big deal to lots of people. Those folks who administer these ceremonies, (i.e. religious institutions) have every right to set the rules for whom they will perform the ceremony and for whom they won’t. Once the ceremony is done, the marriage is governed by the laws of the particular state. It is those laws which should not discriminate between different kinds of couples. If gays who want more than a civil CEREMONY can find a religious institution that will marry them, good for them. If they can’t, then they have to go with civil only. Either way it’s none of your business.

    3. Has it ever occurred to you that the groundswell of support for gay marriage within the gay community may be a direct outgrowth of the AIDS epidemic and a recognition on the part of that community that there is a price to be paid for promiscuity?

    4. Last but certainly not least, at least three of us on this blog have young children — me, El Tigre and Dead Rabbit. I will go out on a limb and assume none of those children has shown a sexual proclivity yet. If any one of them simply never developed an attraction to the opposite sex and rather found themselves NATURALLY attracted to the same sex — and if any one of them found a partner who made them happy and was their choice for a life partner — which of us would condemn our child to second class citizenship?

    This isn’t about what grosses YOU out. Hell, I squirm when I see two guys kissing. That’s not the point. This is about letting people be comfortable in their own skin so long as they are not hurting you. This is about letting people be happy and enjoy the same fruits of a loving relationship that we all enjoy. It’s about wanting that happiness for our kids and our friends and our loved ones.

    Gays aren’t going away. Why can’t we make their already difficult lives a bit easier by respecting who they choose to love?

  271. Damn, everybody decided to defect right before I posted my definitive closer on the gay marriage debate. 😉

    Well, to all who are running for the exits you will be missed and I do hope you reconsider, Especially now that I have so little time to write, this is YOUR blog as much as mine.

    I do need to clear up one misconception on the part of Muffy and perhaps Tex too. I found what Tex said completely and utterly harmless and I was very clear about that with PF. However I’m no mind reader and I’m in no position to doubt the sincerity of PF’s taking umbrage at it. So Muffy if you’re upset that I didn’t declare PF’s behavior a stunt, I’m sorry. I think he was genuinely upset.

    Maybe I was too long winded (wouldn’t be the first time) but I did say that making FBI threats on this blog puts a damper on free expression here and it’s something I would prefer not happen again. Perhaps Muffy you missed that in my word salad at 345?

  272. OK Tex … I missed the Obamacare connection. You got me. Hell at the rate things are going there will be no Obamacare as he delays implementation of every piece of it that folks don’t like.

  273. PF I know a plane is way more sophisticated than a tin can but the sophistication does not completely calm my nerves. In fact the less I know about it the better. One of the things I heard about the SFO crash was that an automated landing aid at the airport has been offline since June. I don’t remember the name of it. The correspondent did say pilots don’t need this aid and have several alternative ways to compensate for its absence but still.

  274. “So Muffy if you’re upset that I didn’t declare PF’s behavior a stunt, I’m sorry. I think he was genuinely upset.”

    I’m not upset about that. I said that part was a wash. I expect nothing different from you anymore, R. I’m resigned to it.

    Of course he was genuinely upset. As much as anything about him can be considered genuine. That doesn’t mean that he believed Tex had threatened him or anyone else.

    Phew. Open a fucking window in here.

  275. R @ 367. The glideslope signal was not working at the time. You only need that when weather is bad; no, the fault was entirely the pilot’s and copilot’s. The weather was severe clear; they needed the glideslope signal like the proverbial fish needs a bicycle.

    The problem was piloting. And airspeed. An airplane will only fly so slowly; below what is called the “stall speed” the wing’s lift is greatly reduced, and the airplane sinks. The pilot had his head up his ass and his copilot was calling for more speed well before the crash. The copilot should have reached over and advanced the throttles, no matter what the pilot did; stopping errors is why you have two pilots, for god’s sake. And in a turbofan engine, you need to do it early, since it takes a few seconds for turbos to “spool up” and make more thrust.

    The problem is that a lot of foreign carriers have this worship of authority; the pilot is god and you don’t ever thwart him. There was a South American plane that crashed like that a couple of years ago; the pilot actually beat the copilot with his hat while they were flying. The crash was shortly thereafter, and everybody died. Supposedly the foreign carriers have fixed this problem, but it doesn’t look like it.

    A couple of years ago I was flying with a friend who started fucking around in the clouds, down low, without an instrument clearance; said he “knew where he was.” Yeah, in the WV mountains, barely 2000′ above the trees. I told him to go up or I was going to take over the airplane, which, by the way, I was not qualified to fly. I was fucking pissed and, pilot-in-command or not, he knew that the bullshit had to stop immediately. My guess is that the Korean copilot never said, “Add Power! Immediately, or I will!” They landed about a 1/4 mile short. Two dead, multiple paralyzed, burns. Idiots.

  276. As you know, our grand daughter is at risk, and our daughter was bedfast most of last week with an infection. She is still pretty weak. Our son-in law’s parents are about to leave for home, and it is almost time for our shift. This change in our scheduals will probably last four or five years,maybe longer.

    We also face a huge raspberry crop and which I am picking now. With all that is going on, I will be leaving for awhile. I’m telling you, so you won’t wonder.

    An Estonian girl made four videos in 2009, and her good editing, photo skills combined with cute expressions and changed appearances apparently set pubscient boys hearts aflutter. She wanted views and bragged that her video attracted 100 views in 45 minutes. The girl created three versions of herself.

    Then, she vanished. Her Twitter and Face Book accounts went dormant. In spite of the passage of time, as many as 260 viewers per month are visiting her site. She has attracted over ten million viewers, and someone commented that she has become a cult figure with a world-wide following.

    Estonia is one of the EU’s poorest countries. A view of the house interior shows her family didn’t have a lot of money.

    Web sites have been devoted to her. It is almost like reading about Elvis sightings or Jimmy Hoffa. One recurring theory is that she is dead. She is past twenty now. Maybe she just got tired.

    No one will check because I am probably the only person the story interested. WhiteJustCan’tDance Shake it (Female Version). Youtube video. She wrote on the screen, ” watch in HQ, I will give you a cookie.” Her closing shot was “Haters,Fk you.” with a smiley face. That’s a good way to say “goodbye.”

    “I’ll be back.” Bye.

  277. I sure hope Egypt has better luck with their ‘Yes We Can’ crowd than America did. If not, Pharaoh Obama will be tearing down the pyramids within five years and selling it off rock by rock.

    James, at least make sure you stop by long enough to tell us how your daughter and granddaughter are doing so we know you’re alive and kicking. 😀

  278. Behind Wal-Mart, the second-largest employer in America is Kelly Services, a temporary work provider.

    Friday’s disappointing jobs report showed that part-time jobs are at an all-time high, with 28 million Americans now working part-time. The report also showed another disturbing fact: There are now a record number of Americans with temporary jobs.

    Approximately 2.7 million, in fact. And the trend has been growing.

    Obamanomics at its core…

  279. Huck, Rabbit: I would consider it a personal favor if you would contact me at my email address: pfesser53 at gmail dot com.

    Muff, you can kiss my ass.

  280. I will, Tex. We are about ready to leave. One of our daughter’s friends said she is getting the same dose of penicilan that syphilus patients get.

    Son-in law’s parents left early. Baby is crying because the formula doesn’t agree with her. The sleepless parents are trying to find a brand she can tolerate.

    The calvery will be there in a couple of hours.

  281. One final public word from me on what will forever be known as the RL FBI Fiasco.

    My memory is not what it used to be but from my recollection the only RL patron who was ever explicitly threatened with violence was … wait for it … Tex Taylor.

    A few of years ago a heated argument developed between Tex and an old liberal named Revolting Pawn. Pawn got his undies in such a knot that he told Tex that if Tex ever appeared in his neighborhood he would punch Tex’s lights out.

    Tex laughed.

    That of course was the end of it. I never did find out what became of Revolting Pawn.

  282. That of course was the end of it. I never did find out what became of Revolting Pawn.

    I think Revolting Pawn got married to Ugly Kay so they could tend to each others wounds after being bled by a thousand cuts. I’d forgot about that rotund, bald headed “librarian” turd. 😆 Pawn had such a raving case of militant BDS, even you didn’t miss him.

    I think I burst his balloon about three months into Hussein’s first go at failure and that was all he she wrote. Talk about an unbalanced and unstable individual.

    With the gang we’ve got now, that guy wouldn’t have lasted ten minutes before suffering a complete meltdown. Tigre, Muffy and Rabbit would have had a field day.

    Those were the days…

  283. Is your daughter not able to nurse, James? The problem is not formula, generally, it’s that human babies need human milk, not soybeans.

  284. It’s quiet in here. Did Tex kill everybody?

    Disclaimer: This is a joke. If you cannot understand the word joke, then please feel free to bash yourself in the nether regions with a ballpeen hammer. Which is also a joke. Thank you.

    ~

    ”Muff, you can kiss my ass.”

    Why when I can just keep smoking it?

    Smash! Boom! Pow! How do you like me now?

    Disclaimer: This is not a threat. The words “smash,” “boom” and “pow” are purely for effect and in order to meet the rhetorical goal of a rhyme. Yes I’m laughing at you. Thank you.

  285. I think there was a time or multiple times when I was threatened with violence here at Rutherford’s. I didn’t take it too seriously though, not now or at the time. I tend to rile things up on occasion, at least I’ve been told as such.

    I read the US is playing both sides in Egypt. I wish we’d keep to ourselves. I’d prefer to minimize the beat down we’ve got coming. Pride before the fall thing – get’s ’em every time. Stupid humans.

    Farmers are plowing crops under. Can’t get Americans to pick them. Doesn’t matter how much is offered, Americans are above that kind of dirty hard work. But let’s keep making it hard for the ones that want to do the work from getting the opportunity. Stupid crackers.

    James, I would love to be picking raspberries. Problem for me is I always eat too many and don’t get home with as many as I should. And you know what a ton of fresh fruit will do to your digestive system. lol. Watch those thorns!

    I hope your grand baby and her mom get to overcoming these obstacles in their paths to recovery and complete healthiness. I’ll keep them in prayer.

  286. Come to think of it I remember telling pools that if this was the roller derby I would jam him in the neck with my skate before I dumped him in a soup of quicksand in an Appalaccian bog.

    Thank you for not calling the FBI on me pools.

  287. Hilarious article in the Washington Times this morning. Bush/Palin 2016 called the ‘GOP’s Only Hope.”

    Michael Sheppard is a writer for the American Thinker. (Indeed? Isn’t that convenient? He seems quite the thinker.)

    “A Jeb Bush/president – Sarah Palin/vice-president ticket covers all the Electoral College, Evangelical, pro-life, centrist-conservative, experienced governorships, male/female bases,” he notes.
    “Both are strongly vetted and most certainly there is nothing in Palin’s life that has not be diced and sliced, disproved and shown to be a product of leftist hate.”

    Now that’s a real coffee-spitter! The only teeny-tiny problem is that there aren’t that enough backwoods goobers, old white men and religious cranks left in America to get them elected. Sarah Palin? Nothing her ife that has not been disproven and shown to be leftist hate? Mrs. ‘I can see Russia from my house and that makes me an international expert’ Palin? Riiiiiiiiiiigghhhtttttt…….

    The ReBiblicans should change their name to … well, it doesn’t matter what they change it to, does it? They are gone, gone, gone.

  288. Yawn. Somebody’s ass is still red and apparently getting redder. Grotesque living under the guise of hip does that to a man.

    Saw this, this morning, and thought it quite good – written by my buddy CFBleachers…
    ———————————

    Here are the seminal points of leftism:

    1) If there are no victims, create them.

    2) Use any and all of the “suspect class” to create these faux “victims”. Race is first and foremost, use it all day, every day. Gender, creed, age, sexual preference, national origin, …nearly as good.

    3) If you can find a way to divide the country, use it.

    4) Hide behind the mask of “compassionate liberal”, even though brutal thuggery is the modus operandi for ALL governance functions.

    5) Totalitarianism MUST be hidden behind and disguised behind “do gooderism” and “equality” and “tolerance”.

    6) Own the water cooler, the “opinion incubators” and the communication channels…at a level and to the extent that the truth DOES NOT MATTER. Create perception and “truthiness” will be “good enough” for the masses.

    7) Propaganda is a DAILY requirement. With an iron fist around the throat of the information stream….you can run guns to drug cartels, shred the Constitution, aid and abet enemies of state, slap the face of any and every ally, force the purchase of STATE goods and services, hide taxes in fake “populist” bills, sic the IRS, FBI, and EPA on private citizens and businesses for political purposes, and

    SELECTIVELY PROSECUTE CITIZENS FOR LEFTIST POLITICAL GAIN.

    George Zimmerman is being tarred, feathered and lynched by leftist sophistry because he is a stand in for “white society”. His Latino heritage is a trifling inconvenience. He was painted lily white because the necessary “narrative” required him to be “white” enough to lynch by the Propaganda Posse sent to hang him.

    The Agenda Media are Orwell’s dogs. As are their fellow curs in Agenda Academia (88 of whom were sent to lynch Duke white athletes) and Agenda Entertainment…who are routinely sent to destroy white, Christian/Jew, non-leftists.

    These are the rules of leftism. And, they will be obeyed. Ignore them at your peril.

  289. And so it begins. The ACLU goes to work in Pennsyltucky:

    http://thetandd.com/news/national/pa-law-banning-gay-marriage-faces-court-challenge/article_cc436f14-da6c-5a0e-9f78-bce81aa760e6.html

    “A 1996 state law defines marriage as between a man and a woman, and says same-sex marriages, even if entered legally elsewhere, are void in Pennsylvania.

    The ACLU says that’s unconstitutional because same-sex couples don’t have access to the same legal and financial protections as do opposite-sex couples.”

    Indiana, you’re next.

  290. Maybe he read that thing about Afghanistan’s being referred to as the “graveyard of empires.”

    But of course that doesn’t apply to the United States. We’re exceptional, and these two simultaneous wars, all on a credit card, won’t hurt us.

    Bush-the-Lesser must have missed that math class.

  291. Hey Rutherford Illinois now has concealed carry law…..just sayin’

    Obama’s train of thought here isn’t a quicker exit just a total one. Given the dialog,the spikes in “green on blue” incidents and how Iraq set the tone regards deployment/SOFA etc. I think the “zero option” in Afghanistan is a foregone conclusion,just as well since it will be concluding its down the drain maneuver.

    Irony alert regards Iraq and the piss poor allegations of “blood for oil”. China helped finance the operations and now they are reaping the oil. China is ramping up efforts to get more contracts with Baghdad as Iraq is more stable and internationally more palatable than places like Sudan and Iran. The other petro news though is that by 2018 the USA will become a net exporter,yeah us!

    Sadly US foreign policy is set to adrift the next decade unless something drastic occurs. We are too late onto the Africa scene even though we may have some positives there. We will be seeing tension with China grow there.
    The Pacific Pivot has some renewed promise although it is dripping with a negativity based on (say it with me class) tensions with China.
    China is thought to be ramping up what some call a westward pivot. This includes striving for better relations into places like Pakistan and Iran and possibly the “lesser stan’s”. This has the potential to ( yes again) increase tensions as nations such as Japan and India especially are put on a path of making serious decisions.

  292. G Please don’t talk to me about Obamanomics until the GOP controlled House comes up with ONE idea to help the economy. Instead, they’d rather prosecute Benghazi and the IRS while trying to repeal Obamacare for the 125th time.

    Your party is a useless waste of energy. Sadly the Dem’s aren’t much better. Right now our government is a joke.

  293. R, I have a question for you, and this is not a ‘gotcha.’ I have some problems with Z’s going out there with no ID and doing the neighborhood watch; I could certainly see myself in Martin’s shoes, telling the guy to fuck off and mind his own business. I doubt I would jump him, which is what I believe happened.

    But, what is Z supposed to do? The community is getting robbed, clearly from his 911 calls, he and everybody are frustrated with the mighty thin efforts of the police to stop it. What should they do? The old saying goes that, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away. Z’s young, wants to be a cop – isn’t he the logical guy to head up a neighborhood watch, which is itself something the authorities encourage? Maybe, looking back on it, he should have played his cards differently, but being eligible for jail time? I don’t see it.

    Alfie – It sure seems like China is playing its cards right, while we make mistakes in every way possible. How can we turn this mess around? How can the Repubs get turned around and some serious candidates on deck?

  294. G Please don’t talk to me about Obamanomics until the GOP controlled House comes up with ONE idea to help the economy. Instead, they’d rather prosecute Benghazi and the IRS while trying to repeal Obamacare for the 125th time. ” – R

    One? How about 40? As in, there are some 40 jobs bills passed by the House and waiting on Senate action. You know, and I know, that it has been the Senate–not the House–that has been the major roadblock to any legislation action for some four years now.

    As for Benghazi and the IRS–it is becoming increasingly clear that not only was a crime committed, but that a cover up from the highest levels has been disclosed. Being a liberal, I know you have little concern with corruption, but for the rest of America, we have significant angst when our government lies to cover up crimes it commits…

  295. Gorilla – I had to sit down after seeing that video. If that doesn’t scare the hell out of you, well, it should. Where in the hell did you find that? I sent it to all my family and conservative friends, since the liberal ones would just shrug it off.

    Why are people so blind?

    Now somebody tell me again what a fine job we are doing in educating our kids…

  296. OK, R – the trial is over. What say you, innocent or guilty, or convicted on a lesser charge?

    Not what you WANT, what you THINK will happen.

    And if not convicted, will there be “civil unrest?”

  297. All I can say about 398 is at least it wasn’t targeted at black people.

    G — seriously go f*ck yourself. Are you really such an idiot that you think only libs sign stupid petitions that demonstrate their incredible ignorance?

    And PF … you sent this to all your conservative friends? Trying to make them think they’re somehow smarter?

    G, you never got out of Kindergarten.

    Try sending THIS to your conservative friends — I had trouble getting through all 12 minutes. I bet damn sure you won’t. (I do have a soft spot in my heart for Phil Davidson). These aren’t for the most part ordinary folks like in your video — they’re our “leaders”. Stupid dumbass Republican leaders.

  298. Z used a gun in a fist fight. It’s as simple as that. If there isn’t a law against that there should be.

    Z is not guilty of the charge on the table. Jury should convict on lesser offense so the next citizens watch dude focuses on the “watch” part and doesn’t go playing Barney Fife. 👿

  299. You can definitely kill someone with your bare hands, even though you might not intend to do so and be sorry later.

    You can also kill someone defending yourself against that person with a gun, or a knife or YOUR hands, even though you might not intend to do anything other than stop them from killing you. And when you think you are in danger, reflexes will take over and you will do anything you can think of to get them off. Anything.

    I don’t see it. If there were ever a case of self-defense, this is it.

    And I’ll tell you another thing: I have never seen such an obnoxious, prejudiced, asshole judge. She seems to be determined to convict Zimmerman all by herself.

  300. Interesting fact I was not aware of. Did you know that the companies such as Verizon and Google who supply information to the NSA get reimbursed by the government for their expenses?

  301. PF I haven’t followed the case closely enough to weigh in on the judge. I do know this has to be one of the most incompetent prosecutions going. I know you don’t like MSNBC but Lisa Bloom has been giving some great analysis.

    Yesterday the prosecution let the last defense witness deliver testimony outside his area of expertise and didn’t bat an eye.

    You realize that if Z is acquitted on all charges and there are NO RIOTS then we’ll see who the real racists and race baiters are.

  302. R – couple of things.

    You have me confused with former posters. I don’t – as a whole – dislike MSNBC; I am at times very critical of them, but no more so than I am their polar opposite, Fox News. I think Maddow is bright and really good at mocking the extreme right – something near and dear to my heart. However, so is mocking the extreme left. I think they are both FOS, and killing this country.

    I don’t really get your last line about “real racists” &c. Folks have come to expect “riots” anytime somebody in the ‘hood’ has a little bit of a sore head; you don’t see that behavior anywhere else: to my way of thinking, expecting that sort of thing falls under, “learning from experience,” not any racism.

  303. I’m home for a few hours to pick raspberries and do some other work. Baby looks more substantial, and it is harder to get her head through her sleepers. She recognizes music videos I have played for her. She stares at the images.

    She is having problems adjusting to formula and screams her head off at night. Her appetite is improving.

    Daughter is still on penicillian and her husband is gone a lot at odd hours since the station is upgrading, and he is working overtime. He got home at 2AM this morning.

    Daughter celebrated her birthday with us and one of her friends at work. She got dizzy and fell down stairs, so she is a little sore now.

    We bought a new car yesterday because of all of our future commuting. Our dog had a fit when I returned home. She recognizes our cars and the new one was a strange threat to her.

  304. James – Not to be judgmental at all, but you NEVER have rejection of mother’s milk. If I’m overstepping here, tell me to FO, but did she not consider nursing? The baby gets exactly what it needs, including a full shot of mom’s immunity – tremendously beneficial. It’s like the WonderFormula for infants.

    Anyway, thanks for the followup. Sounds like no fun.

  305. Thanks for the good thoughts. Our daughter was breast feeding, but she developed an infected milk duct. She felt so bad with a high fever that she was in bed for two days.

    The doctors told her not to breast feed because of the infection and because she wasn’t producing enough milk for the baby to gain weight fast enough.

    This whole experience has been atypical. Even a specialist said he doesn’t know what is happening because he has no basis for comparison. Remember, for several months, they gave her a 98% chance of Downs Syndrome. Now, she doesn’t show the apparent symptoms of micro encephaloy, and her head seems to be growing. Doctors still want an MRI scan.

    On the other hand, she is a cute baby and likes my wife and me.

    After picking some more raspberries, I am heading back to Omaha.

  306. I swear the prosecutor today said “either Zimmerman is lying or he’s telling the truth. Either way he’s lying.”

    My nine year old said WTF minus the profanity.

    I swear the most incompetent prosecution ever!

  307. R – I wasn’t aware of the penicillin situation, but having said that, while pediatricians are pretty careful about breast-feeding moms, nearly every breast-feeding woman gets some degree of mastitis, and they continue to nurse on antibiotics.

    I know a lactation consultant – a lady who circuit-rides and helps women who are breastfeeding – or want to do so – solve any problems. She said the most poignant case was that of a pediatrician. When she arrived at the Doc’s house, the woman was sitting in the floor, with her open medical textbooks books scattered around her on the floor, crying, her very hungry baby screaming in the background. “I’m a pediatrician, and there is nothing in any of these books that tells me how to nurse my baby!” After getting her squared-away, the peds called on her for years for help with her nursing patients.

    Good stuff. Good luck to your daughter, James.

  308. ET –

    Don’t flatter yourself – or me. Neither of us is that important.

    Actually, without the right-wing nutcases, for the first time in a LONG time, it’s fun to read the posts here. The dearth of wild-eyed screaming and spittle-dripping is quite pleasant.

    Sometimes the right thing happens for the wrong reason. Eventually the chicken SHIT has to be cleaned out of the chicken HOUSE, and that’s a GOOD thing.

    Wanna shoot me a private email? I owe you that much. pfesser53 at gmail dot com.

    Your call.

  309. Tigre I’m not quite sure how to interpret your comment but:

    While I miss the gang (who I think will return eventually) things are no different from the days in September 2007 when I started this. I write this blog ultimately for me. So long as I write, even if less frequently, this blog won’t be dead. I’m sorry if you don’t come here to read what I write but some do. That’s all I need.

  310. My email address contains personal information about me that I choose not to share with you, PF. I was considering creating a different account just to satisfy my curiousity about what you could possibly have to say in private that you don’t seem to have the balls to say in public.

    Then after reading that I am a chicken shit, wild-eyed screaming, spittle-dripping, right-wing nutcase, I decided I really don’t care that much anymore.

    Anything you have to say to me you can say right here in the same public forum you used to issue your threats to call in the law. If this communication is something you feel you owe me, then you can be the one to put forth all of the effort to pay your debt.

  311. R, as usual, I don’t know how to interpret your comments either. The commenters write for their own edification too.

    I know you don’t give a fuck about my coming around. You’ve made that clear. But what PF did was complete bullshit. A cloud you did not create now hangs over your place. I would’ve expected the transgression to really piss you off. Yet PF says he’s pleased with the result and you follow by claiming to be okay with it too? More power to you. . . I guess. I think it’s a shame.

  312. @Huck, ET –

    Suit yourselves. I’m agnostic. It should be quite instructive for you to search for another host who puts up with personal attacks in his own home, his motivations and intellect questioned, even his physical disabilities mocked.

    News flash: this is quite an oasis in the “blogosphere.” Little second-grade asshole-boys aren’t tolerated very many places anymore, when pulling the plug on the whole show consists of a few keystrokes. I’d have put you in your place by the second post.

    Enjoy your search for your own little circle-jerk neighborhood. Not to speak for the blog owner, but for my part, don’t let the screen door hit you on the ass on your way out.

  313. Rutherford – I have a suggestion for a new post:

    The Texas legislature has rammed through their anti-abortion legislation. James turned me on to a Tom Friedman article about how people elect folks to government and then end up taking to the streets to protest the things they do. It really set me to thinking about that, vis à vis the ReBiblicans in positions of power.

    These right-wing nutjobs and religious cranks don’t really understand what they are doing: destroying the remains of that burning hulk called, “The Republican Party.” Somehow they have got the idea that being elected by a few percent margin gives them the right to shove their own narrow agenda down the losers’ throats. The Republican party of old was very sensitive to that fact, and knew they were there to represent EVERYBODY, not just the winners.

    Food for thought. Now the question is, who will replace the ReBiblicans?

  314. Agnostic: (in a nonreligious context) having a doubtful or noncommittal attitude toward something:

    Narcissistic: having an excessive or erotic interest in oneself and one’s physical appearance:

    PF, nope not agnostic!

  315. Fragile egos can’t admit publicly they were wrong, and after a week, it appears Humpty Dumpty shattered beyond repair. I think someone is in for a really big surprise when he finds out that the blog universe and me specifically, shouldn’t be judged for content and character by Rutherford’s and Grannies.

    Since I was ultimately Humpty’s source of consternation, I would say leaving the blog exclusively to Dumpty would be fitting legacy to his ultimate worth. Our resident militant atheist and megalomaniac could have a sterile room and talk to himself so he wouldn’t have to trouble himself with calling the FBI when his massive ego gets deflated.

    As a bonus, he can put that in his imagined trophy case of “big wins.”

    However, the only thing that has troubled me about this situation, and I mean this, is that Rutherford deserves better and I feel partially at fault for causing the brouhaha. Hopefully, the rest of you will choose to ignore Humpty and not let it interfere with that twisted friendship and respect each of us has developed with Rutherford over the past years. Any man that is willing to put up with the crap peacefully and not abandon the mission no matter how wrong or confused I may think it is, has some measure of respect in my book. And I think out of my respect, I would hope each of you not let Humpty’s threat to me interfere with your relationship with the owner. Let me deal with it and enjoy the conversation. Obviously, the give and take is fun or none of us would be here.

    ———————

    For the rest of you second grade assholes, especially the ones that I chewed ass frequently as Raji and Poolman come to mind and to a lesser degree Huck, this class clown found that each of you gave as well as you got. Weak people can’t handle criticism. Never for a moment, would I have pulled the plug because I found in the heated exchanges and mocking, there was generally something for me to give thought to in the process. I’m not so proud to not realize, you can still learn from your political adversaries in the give and take. And it actually makes one a more effective debater because each of you have something to teach me.

    As always, Rutherford is always welcome in my group wherever that may lead, even if Rutherford is woefully confused about virtually everything. 🙂 If it weren’t for Rutherford (forgetting for a moment he owns it), it would not be nearly as fun – and at least for me, hasn’t been since his visits less frequent. Besides, R.L. is working now and not able to man or moderate the blog like before. He certainly doesn’t have time to represent state’s evidence.

    The rest of you, and you know who you are, I would miss if we didn’t have the weekly exchanges. Gorilla, BIC, Alfie’s place. You guys take your pick and let me know where you go because in this strange world of virtual reality, I have valued the exchanges.

    But don’t abandon Rutherford on account of one rotten egg.

  316. @ 423 the phenomenon is not limited to the Republicans and manifests itself at every level of government. The democrats are replete with examples of how the candidate promises and pledges one thing and then as a party delivers another. Great examples are in state or even free tuition for illegal aliens,million$ for “early education” programs (like Head Start and local spin-offs) that are proven to provide zero net benefit and any matter of assorted tax revenue wasters.
    On a semi-related note I am working up a post that may or may not see the light of day about how in less than a few years my health insurance has gone from a great deal,freaking stellar imo to what I am deeming “insurance in name only”.
    Although I live in MA RomneyCare never really impacted my insurance since my employer isn’t a Bay State entity. RC impacted my healthcare regards access,I waited close to a year for a physical,ironically I had a sick visit a week before the physical.
    The ACA however has seriously put the screws to me and my employer and I work for a Fortune 100. My October Surprise (open enrollment month) in 2013 will be one that really really really pisses me off. I only hope there is at least some margin of Obamabots that are equally affected.
    Seriously you want to have a discussion that speaks to all sides,our nation and the legacy of Barack H Obama lets go the healthcare route. The obscenity that has rolled out (and over) Americans comes from the party that was supposed to protect folks and provide affordable care…..I DON’T BLOODY WELL THINK SO…

  317. ”It should be quite instructive for you to search for another host who puts up with personal attacks in his own home, his motivations and intellect questioned, even his physical disabilities mocked.” -Doc

    Nag nag nag. I thought it was the bloody threat that got you off this time. You’re full of shit and that’s crystal clear, and in fact is the one thing upon which most everyone (from both blogs where you’ve taken over the pulpit) can agree. Get lost preacher.

    ”Actually, without the right-wing nutcases, for the first time in a LONG time, it’s fun to read the posts here.”

    Yeah, I was really blown away by them, especially #400. Where else are we gonna get that level of depth and insight? 😆 Face it Doc Ho-Hum, you’re the most unstimulating fellow looking for love I’ve ever seen out here.

    Something did dawn on me though while reading the limited offerings of late. The only time in the last however long since homeboy had his meltdown that I was even remotely interested in replying to was when R submitted #406. I realized then an important part of what makes this place work is that you can always count of one of the regulars to go to town stuff like that last line. 😆 It’s just so damn provocative – hard to resist that candy. Take these same commenters and pull R out of the mix and there’s an interesting flavor missing. Simple as that.

    It’s a shame that Doc can’t just sit back and be part of the group, but he can’t stand the competition. He can dish out the mocking but he’s a pantywaist when it comes to taking it.

    “I would say leaving the blog exclusively to Dumpty would be fitting legacy to his ultimate worth. Our resident militant atheist and megalomaniac could have a sterile room and talk to himself so he wouldn’t have to trouble himself with calling the FBI when his massive ego gets deflated.” -Tex

    😆 Yup.

  318. So I am guessing the guy who wants me to display to him my identity and take the time to email him because he thinks he owes me something doesn’t have the balls to just pay his debt to me here. He talks big shit in public but wants to make amends for it in private. I find that inability to man up quite amusing.

    But then, that is PF’s style, isn’t it? Just about everyone here, at some point or another, has admitted they were wrong about something…or at least admitted that maybe they weren’t the only one that was right. But not him….ever. Even when everyone else was baffled by this supposed “threat” toward him, explaining to him that there was neither a threat, nor was the comment directed at him, he still can’t bring himself to apologize for his error, or even admit there was an error.

    Equally amusing is his hypocritical little rant about insulting others…which is lead off with an insult toward others and concluded with a statement about what he would do if he actually had the balls or brains to write and host his own blog articles. Upset that his advances for private communication have been spurned, he throws an immature public tantrum, stating the likes of “fine, I don’t like you, anyway.”

    This small man is afraid of un-made threats, while he ridicules the rest of us for our trepidations regarding his threat that was very real. He talks about others engaging in a circle jerk while he sits alone in the corner bragging about how he can now jerk himself off in peace.

  319. “Rutherford – I have a suggestion for a new post.”

    Why don’t you write it yourself? I know from personal experience that Rutherford gladly accepts guest-blogs.

    Or are you unwilling to subject yourself to the level of scrutiny and criticism that comes with being an author, rather than just an editor?

  320. Some thread and post related observations from some of my wandering s today.
    WR Meade had a neat piece about the new mms mantra….too true as well. TX filibusters are awesome,D.C. filibusters are evil.
    The Zimmerman judge comes off as a real crook. Her actions will only help to enflame this whole thing.
    Also on a Zimmerman letter (10 points to history buffs who know the pun there) although some of my predictions have clearly tanked I m going with not guilty. I think guilty gets appealed successfully if it goes that way.
    I saw where the liberals are getting some wood about striking a blow against the Teach for America program. I wallowed in some real lefty literature (American Prospect) and got bellyful of some histrionics. Folks the left or at least those enamoured with the 20th Century model our public Ed system uses are a real hoot.
    James…just in case you see this I hope all works out.
    Rutherford throw up a quickie and let’s see what happens.
    Alfie.

  321. Asiana Airlines just released the names of the crew in the B-777 accident in SFO.

    Pilot in Command: Captain Sum Ting Wong
    Line Check Airman: Captain Wi Tu Lo
    First Officer: Ho Lee Fuk
    First Officer: Bang Ding Ow

  322. Tigre all I can say is this:

    I’ve publicly and privately expressed my displeasure over the “FBI thing”. What do you want me to do, have PF taken out and shot?

    You referred to the death of my blog and I was simply pointing out to you that the blog stays alive as long as I keep writing. I know there are those who hardly read what I write and only come here for the to and fro. I hope they come back but the blog lives without them.

    Finally and I shouldn’t have to say this. I DO CARE if you come here or not. There have only been a couple of folks in the history of this blog whom I genuinely dislike, as much as you can dislike someone you’ve never met. You are NOT one of them. I’ve always liked you despite our apparent total inability to communicate.

    Now it might not matter to you whether or not I like you but for the record I do.

  323. Tex thanks for the latest comment. I don’t want to pile on PF — hell you guys don’t need help there — but I do appreciate the kind things said about the blog.

    I appreciate the blog topic suggestions but I’ve got one floating in my noggin regarding what I heard from a spokesman from FAIR (an immigration lobby or some such thing). I hope to write it this weekend.

  324. “What do you want me to do, have PF taken out and shot?”

    Better be careful how you phrase things, Rutherford.

    Also…I predict a manslaughter conviction for Zimmerman, based on the jury asking, today, for clarification on “manslaughter.”

    Either that or a hung jury.

  325. Z just found not guilty. Justice was done if for no other reason than that the prosecution was utterly incompetent.

    Now let’s move on.

    Let this be a lesson to big bad thug wannabe’s — you may get yourself killed being an asshole.

  326. Now let’s move on.

    To what? The next media hyped catastrophe?

    Let this be a lesson to big bad thug wannabe’s — you may get yourself killed being an asshole.

    Unless you work for the government. Then you can get paid to harm others AND be an asshole.

  327. Rutherford – I know you don’t agree with the Zimmerman verdict, but everybody put forth their best efforts and the jury has spoken.

    Now let’s see what the racial ambulance chasers do. Personally, I think if MLK were alive, he would get the Right Reverend Jackson and Sharpton by the scruffs of their necks and knock their heads together. I just reread his Letter from a Birmingham Jail again (I try to do that once every year) and am again impressed by how Unlike Him are his Followers. Kind of like Jesus.

    ********

    As I predicted, the death of your blog was greatly exaggerated, and lasted about three hours. You are going to have to find more resolute executioners, Rutherford. LOL.

    *******

    I’m watching Lee Marvin in The Big Red One as I write this. Now there was a man. Wounded by machine gun fire, sciatic nerve cut. After all his successes in life, he chose to be buried at Arlington. His tombstone has the following inscription: “Lee Marvin, PFC US Marine Corps, World War II.” Nothing else.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Marvin

    Kind of sets the standard for what’s important.

  328. I can’t copy and paste from Facebook on my iPhone but when I get back to my PC I will post my FB statement here regarding Z verdict. It will clearly help you understand my bottom line.

  329. Not to beat it to death, R (sorry, no pun intended) but do you think that the prosecution actually did a pretty good job; they just didn’t have anything to work with?

    You know, it’s not a lawyering contest; it’s a search for the truth. Maybe the truth was that the prosecutors just didn’t have a case – not that they were incompetent or couldn’t make a case – there just wasn’t one there.

    And then, there are the 24/7 analyses, going on for months. Nancy Grace is a particularly unsavory character. It’s hard to see her without the phrase, “Not with YOUR dick” coming to mind.

    There is such a thing as a f’ing Greek tragedy. A young man is dead; another’s life is ruined. Hell, George Zimmerman is the Monica Lewinsky of men; no matter where he goes or what he does, everybody will know who he is. He and his family will always be the targets of every asshole in the world. My guess is that he will have to leave his home and live his life in another country. It’s just sad for everyone.

  330. “You are going to have to find more resolute executioners”

    Unlike you, I didn’t make any threats that would have killed the blog.

    Even Rutherford is disgusted by what you’ve done, so shut the fuck up, take your medicine, and be glad your ass isn’t banned.

  331. PF I’ve probably watched more analysis than the trial itself but here are two facts:

    1. Prosecution witnesses were used by the DEFENSE to their advantage.

    2. It was not until the closing argument that the prosecution said that Trayvon could not possibly have seen Z’s gun because of where Z himself said it was holstered (behind his left side). That evidence belonged in the trial not the closing argument.

    I get your point that its hard to win an unwinnable case but the prosecution was guilty of malfeasance from the charge right through the way they conducted themselves in the trial.

  332. Unlike yourself, Fucking Hypocrite, (hucking fypocrite?) or whatever your screen name is, I have a life, so I’m completely agnostic about blogging, not-blogging, banning or not-banning. None of it is that important. Also unlike yourself, I have consistently shown the blog owner courtesy and respect in his own home, so wherever the chips fall, I’m quite happy. R can do whatever he has to do and there will be no hard feelings on my part.

    As Linus Torvalds said, Linux is so successful because he doesn’t “worry too much” about it. You will never be successful, either, until in your heart-of-hearts, you don’t give a red rat’s ass what anybody else thinks.

    *********

    Now, onto more interesting things: We see what Sharpton, the Racial Ambulance-Chaser, is up to:

    “The acquittal of George Zimmerman is a slap in the face to the American people but it is only the first round in the pursuit of justice. We intend to ask the Department of Justice to move forward as they did in the Rodney King case and we will closely monitor the civil case against Mr. Zimmerman. I will convene an emergency call with preachers tonight to discuss next steps and I intend to head to Florida in the next few days.”

    — the Rev. Al Sharpton

  333. This is what I posted to Facebook earlier tonight and not under my anonymous Rutherford persona:

    A message to future Trayvon’s: if you are near your home and you think you’re being followed, GO HOME especially if you’re a kid. Act like a kid, not a big shot, go home and tell your parents.

    There IS a lesson in this for us. We are not controlling our children and they are getting in over their heads. If we are honest we know Trayvon was headed down the wrong road in life. Sadly he never got a chance to grow up and turn it around.

    We need to do a better job with our kids folks. When your kid has the N word in his Twitter handle you need to intervene.

  334. R – re: kids getting in over their heads. There is a local rumour about a blue van with a couple of bogus guys offering ad hoc carpet cleaning, with the real intent to “case the joint” and later rob houses. Is it true? I don’t know, but everyone in this area is thinking about it.

    Yesterday a young man and his buddy came up my long, somewhat hidden driveway in a beat-up blue van and proceeded to try to sell my wife some kind of magazine subscription, which she declined. He was very persistent, and I stepped outside into the driveway to see what was going on, as did my poor old German Shepherd, Sam – otherwise known as Herr Fartenpooper. My other elderly dogs tottered over to see as well. Obviously a little nervous, the kid asked my wife, “They won’t attack me, will they?” Her response: “Not unless I tell them to.” He obviously didn’t like that response and said Good Day and left.

    Poor Sam and Nicky wouldn’t – couldn’t – do a thing in an emergency, but the kid didn’t know that. I had a pistol in my pocket; he didn’t know that either. I haven’t the slightest idea what this kid really wanted, but his aggressiveness did not do him any favors. I hope and pray that my dogs – and the signs along the driveway saying, “If you are reading this, your picture has already been uploaded to the Internet” should be enough to discourage any foolish actions on his part. For his sake, I surely hope so.

    It goes to show how fucking around can, as you say, be a dangerous thing. Add to all that the rumour about robberies, and you see how things can get out of hand. Same thing with George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin. Your word of advice is a good one.

  335. R – you’ll appreciate this. I’m plowing through Lofgren’s book, “The Party is Over;” you asked for an occasional book report. Check this out:

    “Let’s face it: The Republican Party is no longer a broad-based conservative in the historically accepted sense. It is an oligarchy with a well-developed public relations strategy designed to soothe and anesthetize its followers with appeals to tradition, security, and family even as it pursues a radical agenda that would transform the country into a Dickensian corporatocracy at home and a belligerent military empire abroad.”

    I want my party back. Or buried. One way or another. This zombie shit ain’t gettin’ it.

  336. Thanks again for the good thoughts. We are both home for a few hours because my wife plays the organ at church and we have other work to do.

    As you know, Baby’s head was so small it was off the charts and her head size was one reason doctors were considering early induced delivery.

    Baby’s head had a slightly pointed shape and resembled photos of micro encephelic babies. Yesterday, Drudge had a photo of Zimmerman and his bald lawyer in profile. Baby was on the bed, and the shape of her head looked like the lawyer’s.

    I spent six hours yesterday talking to her, feeding her, and playing videos to her when she was awake. She has learned to recognize some of them, and actually watches the songs on the camera screen. Our daughter and son in law didn’t at first, but they also talk to her.

    They put her on her stomach and she tries to move. If one puts hands by the feet baby kicks to move herself. She gets frustrated if she can’t make herself move.

    I found a site discussing the value of music in a child’s learning to speak. A baby learns to anticipate sounds since music repeats itself.

    Daughter is still on medication and she is sore from falling down stairs. Our son-in law has been working odd hours and overtime because the station is installing a new broadcast format.

    She asked “could you stay until she is ready for college?” That is a big step, because the main medical theme is and has been since the Downs Syndrome debacle, mental retardation.

    20 weeks was an abstraction, but it isn’t any more since our grand daughter was looked at so often. Our daughter’s friend had a premature baby at 23 weeks, and he had a 2% chance of survival. Now, his chances are at 50/50, and he is up to two pounds. He still has serious problems of course, but we watched a video of his being put in his first sleeper, and his alert eyes. We watched his weak little cry.

    After what we have seen, there is no reason not to ban abortions after 20 weeks. I didn’t like parts of the law, but the Texas legislature was right to pass their late-term abortion law, even if it might cost them elections.

    Breitbart “Guilty until proven innocent:How the press prosecuted Zimmerman while stoking racial tensions. I hope he sues.

    I might be back for a while next week Our son-in law’s mother misses the baby and she wants to be here for a while, even though she must drive four hours to get here.

  337. James – really sorry about your troubles; if you can use any help, you have my private email.

    R – My Hero, Alan Dershowitz, had the following to say about the Z trial:

    “As many see it, her (Corey’s – the “special prosecutor”) additional job is to prevent riots of the sort that followed the acquittal of the policemen who beat Rodney King… Mansfield Frazier has suggested that it is the responsibility of the legal system to ‘avert a large scale racial calamity.’ He has urged Zimmerman’s defense lawyer to become a savior by brokering a deal to plead his client guilty to a crime that ‘has him back on the streets within this decade.’ But it is not the role of a defense lawyer to save the world or the country. His job—his only job—is to get the best result of his client, by all legal and ethical means.

    Dershowitz concluded his piece by saying that “Zimmerman’s lawyer is doing his job. It’s about time the prosecutor start doing hers.”

    I watched that loud-mouthed, camera-seeking bitch on TV last night. Special prosecutor is right. Special Ed. Just like the judge.

  338. PF respects Rutherford so much that he threatens to call the FBI into his virtual home and then suggests that Rutherford has no life and shallowly cares about what others think by even having a blog.

    Absolutely clueless….

  339. @rutherford I noticed some local reporting (local for you) on the post Zimmerman saga.
    http://news.yahoo.com/video/chicago-reacts-george-zimmerman-verdict-113243362.html
    The girl with the major braid action makes one good point but hints she may be obtusely ignorant at the same time when she spoke of a dead black boy being as important as a dead white boy. I think she fails to respect that many of her own play a big role in assigning value,especially in Chicago .

  340. The battle for the mind. My emails are filling up with a new round of crap from the usual rabble-rousers. The media is focused on the aftermath of the Zimmerman trial. One of the promos is Justice for Trayvon™, the sequel. Starring the familiar cast of useful idiots whose only apparent purpose is to foment fog and fury. They’ll get more mileage from this concocted fury yet. Win-win for those taking us to hell in a hand basket. How much does this cost? How much is this worth? Beyond the government fiat.

    If this last round of antics doesn’t reveal the utter depths we’ve sunk to, I think nothing shy of falling rocks will waken this asleep nation. If we all focused our energies on genuine threats to our livelihoods we could achieve a momentous shift of real power.

  341. “PF respects Rutherford so much that he threatens to call the FBI into his virtual home and then suggests that Rutherford has no life and shallowly cares about what others think by even having a blog.
    Absolutely clueless….”

    Read it again. This time with your glasses.

  342. Anyone here read up much on the concept of driverless cars. I think because I got into a transportation related loop I came across a number of sources that are really hot for the technology. Google has apparently logged over 400k miles without an accident,a couple of states have laws on the books ok’ing the cars and the Feds have just stepped in and put up (pardon the pun) a serious roadblock.
    I don’t think I buy into the virtues of the technology to the degree it’s proponents clearly do but it is interesting for some of its potential pro’s and cons.

  343. Pretty bizarre peak we find ourselves on today,collectively speaking. Abortion,race relations,privacy and a myriad of other topics literally present themselves and are pushed upon us and I don’t know if we know where to go. I think cynics will be on the right side of reality for a while.

  344. Barack Obama: “we are a nation of laws, and a jury has spoken.”

    Harry Reid: ” This isn’t over with.”

    US DoJ: ‘‘Experienced federal prosecutors will determine whether the evidence reveals a prosecutable violation of any of the limited federal criminal civil rights statutes within our jurisdiction.’’

  345. Alfie – I took some engineering classes about ten years ago (about 90 hours of same), in the process of working toward an undergrad degree in EE. One of my best classes was on automated control systems, of which driverless cars are a part.

    For my senior project, three of us built an autonomous robot for competition. This was not a “robot wars” remote-control toy; this unit was fully autonomous; it had to not only navigate on its own, but accomplish a task as well, all the while dealing with another robot on the same property trying to do the same thing.

    All this device had to do was track gridlines, make turns and count spaces in order to maintain orientation. It was hard as balls to just get it to see a line and track it; too much feedback and it wobbled left and right and then went off into the weeds. To little and it didn’t waste any time wobbling; it just went into the weeds. god damn what an amazing amount of code just to do simple stuff! I couldn’t imagine what Google has accomplished. I flew a couple of hours yesterday in the clouds, with rain pouring down. Gives me a whole new appreciation for the work that goes into even a simple autopilot or cruise control, let alone a driverless car.

    One of our best students transferred during his sophomore year to Carnegie-Mellon in Pittsburgh; he was so far ahead of us that it was silly to keep him. Last I heard, he is also in the driverless car arena.

  346. We have driver less tractors now. A friend of my father in law was ahead of his time. I controlled a driver less tractor in the 1970’s from the tractor he was driving a few feet away.

    I’ve read of more modern versions now.

  347. Is this the time in the thread where we get buzzed on Pfessor’s drams and post bandwidth hogging self indulgent videos?

    Bow season starts this week. My family will be disappearing in the woods at my back woods dump. I’ll be in a tree stand watching fall slowly roll into winter again. There is nothing like witnessing every little detail of this metamorphosis. Whole family goes up with me now. We do family shit deep in the mitten during the afternoon.

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