Why I Am Voting for Barack Hussein Obama

Arrogant conservatives, despite their utter ignorance about anything HUMAN, claim a profound wisdom when it comes to their ability to divine the motives of liberals who will grant Barack Obama a second term as President of the United States. They say Obama is our Messiah. They say that in the eyes of liberals, Obama can do no wrong. They say that whenever we liberals are confronted with one of Obama’s weaknesses, we cry “racism!” We are unthinking “sheeple”.

You don’t have to believe that Obama is a secret Muslim to think he’s not perfect.

You don’t have to believe he was born in Kenya and has a forged birth certificate to think he’s not perfect.

You don’t have to believe he is somewhere between a socialist, communist and anarchist to think he’s not perfect.

While the conservative fringe fouls the air with the stench of their crazed conspiracy theories, many liberals, myself included, can readily concede that Obama has thus far not been one of our “great Presidents”. Of course it takes decades of history and hindsight to judge the historical significance of a President, but we’ll concede that for the time being Obama ain’t no Washington, Jefferson or Roosevelt (the GOP one or the Democratic one). In fact, some liberals are very disappointed with the man.

Take comedian Lee Camp whose recent video contends that there isn’t too much daylight between Obama and his opponent Mitt Romney.  Camp claims to know who will win this election and the winner’s name doesn’t even matter:

It’s gonna be the guy who seems to support endless war, countless drone attacks and would sooner sit down to watch every Pauly Shore movie back to back than consider decreasing our 900 military bases around the world by a single one.

It’ll be the guy who deports immigrants hand over fist and would sooner adopt Honey Boo Boo than stand up for unions over the corporatists.

It’ll be the guy who surrounds himself with advisers from Goldman Sachs, GE and Monsanto. Not only will he win the election but I bet you he’ll get every single electoral vote.

I don’t know whom Lee is voting for but despite his disappointment with Obama,  I doubt it will be Mitt Romney.

Then we have (another) comedian who is also an actor and writer, David Cross who had some harsh words for the current POTUS:

There are dozens, if not hundreds of legitimate reasons why you should not vote for Obama. You were lied to, seduced by yet another smooth talking politician who promised you hope and change. …

And yes, after three years of Obama, we still live in a country with an ever-peeling veneer of “democracy” that is run by and for the moneyed power brokers and their vested interests. A country where cancer patients smoking medicinal marijuana in the privacy of their home participate in a criminal offense, but knowingly manipulating the markets and stealing from pension funds goes, not only unpunished, but lucratively rewarded.

And true, we still live in the most violent first world country on earth, with increasingly lax restrictions on the freedom to buy assault weapons online. And we still spend more of our precious decreasing tax dollars on “defense” than the next ten countries combined. …

And unquestionably, the banks, insurance companies, brokerage houses and really, all financial institutions have gotten away virtually untouched with the biggest theft of the people’s money since Rome was sacked by the Visigoths. — David Cross from 90 Days, 90 Reasons.

But then Cross asks the reader to consider the alternative. This brings me to why I am voting for Barack Obama in November.

First let’s rewind to the Republican primary season where each candidate tried to outdo the other on just how cut-throat they could be with the American people. GOP audiences cheered at the notion of letting a man without insurance die in the street, and candidate Ron Paul said nothing to condemn the notion. A soldier asking candidates about marriage equality was booed by an audience of homophobic cowards, not fit to wipe his ass much less shine his shoes. And Rick Santorum stood by and said nothing in defense of the man. Santorum, a so-called patriot, except when it comes to what you want to do in the privacy of your bedroom. Let’s not forget Herman Cain who reminded the jobless in this disastrous economy that it was their fault that they didn’t have a job.

Through it all, Mitt Romney seemed comparatively innocuous. His most memorable moments amounted to challenging Rick Perry to a ten thousand dollar bet and deflecting accusations of hiring undocumented workers by saying that he told his landscaper “I can’t have illegals. I’m running for President for Pete’s sake.” Mitt was the most presidential in a cast of mean-spirited clowns and he won the nomination.

Ah yes, the nomination … the Republican National Convention helped further flesh out the Republican party that we were introduced to in the primary debates.  The theme was the makers vs the takers. If “you didn’t build that”, the Obama phrase perversely mangled by opponents, was offensive, the GOP upped the ante by suggesting that if you didn’t pull yourself up by your bootstraps you were a loser. Virtually every speaker told tales of ancestors who made it with no help from the government, just by dint of hard work. Yet, in twisted convoluted logic, they lauded America as the place “legal” immigrants came to for opportunity. Somehow, the greatest governmental experiment ever launched by mankind had nothing to do with their ancestor’s success. It made no sense, but then Republican’s government-hating patriotism makes no sense either.

Shortly before the convention, Mitt announced his running mate, Paul Ryan, a card carrying enemy of the “nanny state”. Ryan was a no-win choice no matter how you looked at it. Either he was the austerity minded, program cutting makers-vs-takers candidate or he was the man who voted for every unfunded Bush initiative of the prior administration. Another example of the contradiction that is the current Republican party.

Then within the past few weeks a tape was released that revealed what Mitt Romney (and by extension, the entire GOP) felt was an effective pander to his “base”. Mind you, I didn’t say the tape revealed what Mitt actually feels. We don’t know what Mitt actually feels about anything. Pick any topic  and a YouTube of two Mitt’s side by side saying opposite things can be produced. But this pander, this low that Romney was willing to stoop to for votes and contributions, spoke volumes about the attitude of the folks who will be empowered by a Romney win in November. It is the attitude that many many Americans see themselves as “victims” and do not want to take “personal responsibility” for themselves.

Forget about Mitt for one moment and think about the arrogant prick who asked the question, how is Mitt going to convince people “you’ve got to take care of yourself”. He asks this while a no doubt minimum wage waiter serves him his champagne and caviar at the home of a man who hosts sex-parties for his out of touch spoiled friends who wouldn’t know a tough break if they had it shoved up their pampered butt.

These are the folks Romney wants to impress. These are the folks who think that because you got laid off and haven’t been able to find work in 18 months that you’re a loser mooching off the nation. This is the movement foretold by Rick Santelli back in 2009:

How about this, Mr. President and new administration. Why don’t you put up a website to have people vote on the internet as a referendum to see if we really want to subsidize the losers mortgages? Or would they like to at least buy cars, buy a house that is in foreclosure … give it to people who might have a chance to actually prosper down the road and reward people that can carry the water instead of drink the water?

This is America!

How many people want to pay for your neighbor’s mortgages that has an extra bathroom and can’t pay their bills?
Raise their hand!

I stand with David Cross and Lee Camp and many other liberals who are disappointed in Barack Obama. But I’m voting for him again this November because I detest most of what the Republican party has come to stand for:

Homophobia.
A dangerously “nostalgic” view of women.
A lack of empathy that borders on resentment and hatred of the poor and newly poor.
A love affair with the wealthy complete with delusions that we all could be wealthy if we just worked hard enough.

I don’t think that way and I won’t cast a vote that puts me in common cause with people who do. That is reason enough for me to vote for Barack Hussein Obama.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

Art by Vectorportal [CC-BY-3.0], via Wikimedia Commons

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795 thoughts on “Why I Am Voting for Barack Hussein Obama

  1. I answered Newt’s Russia’s billionaire comment in the previous thread.

    No surprise with this one, Rutherford. You will suffer and you will suffer hard if the Democrats win.( Assuming you don’t have connections) Obama has given us no plan different from the one he has tried. His campaign is based on tearing down Mitt with extranious issues.

    I will be around to write “I told you so.”

  2. Love it. This is so dishonest. Decision controlled by the selection of Ryan and the 47% comment. 🙄 Ha. You should’ve titled it “Reasons I Can Think of Today To Defend My Ridiculous Vote for Obama.” Such tortured decision making. 🙄 Glad you finally made a decision. 😆

    Well, you’ve proved I will be voting against my interests again.

    p.s. loved your defense of Fauxcohontis and her selective and false claims to minority status in the last thread. Reminds me of the standards you applied came to Rubio and his parents.

  3. If I step back and put all prejudices and personal dislikes aside, and were to read this as if I didn’t know the blog owner, I would surmise it was written by someone neither honest nor fair, but of a self serving madman incapable of reason, logic or rational thought.

    Was the “comedian’ video to provide color to an otherwise dreary post, or just filler? He was equally as stupid.

    To summarize: I don’t care Obama I can’t support the last four years of admitted abysmal failure and disappointment. Obama is black, he’s liberal and he’s not a Republican.

    Obama does indeed love the poor. So much so, he’s assisted in creating millions of them – more so than any U.S. President in history, as one in six families now live in poverty and one in two live at or near poverty. Under the failed leadership of Obama, middle class America have suffered equally, as almost 10% of their household income has disappeared too in five years.

    That’s not a messiah as you once promised us – it’s pharaoh.

    When you’re left with conjecture of what might be and you can’t defend anything of the last four years of a man you once literally idolized that would lead America out of bondage, it demonstrates there is no truth in you and most likely, never was. That doesn’t surprise me, as I have concluded the blog owner can’t even recognize good from evil, or right from wrong.

    If God forbid America dumb enough not once but twice to elect a malignant narcissist and colossal, proven failure, I’m left with the comfort of knowing those doing the shilling, pandering and outright lying will be hurt the most and least able to afford the imminent doom; academia included.

    It will be a well deserved punishment when the mob turns on them first.

    Let ‘um burn.

  4. A dangerously “nostalgic” view of women.

    A nostalgic view of women?

    Well, I believe it safe to assume that the vast majority of both women and men would believe the ideal life to be one that would include a successful marriage of husband and wife.

    And I’ve noticed even with the Republican’s ‘War on Women’, married women in this country favor Mitt Romney for President by a large margin. Single women, either of failed marriage or no marriage, prefer Barack Obama by a large margin.

    So however nostalgic, it would appear that those that have not only been successful in livelihood but marriage too, prefer the Republican candidate.

    And that seems to be a pattern worth noting – successful. 😉

  5. Mitt is really a poor candidate to put forward. The saying is “put your best foot forward”, not put your best foot in your mouth. Mitt often suffers from the foot in mouth syndrome.

    Romney offers nothing but a change of face and the R brand. We don’t trust him, and that is because he hasn’t given us any reasons to trust him. He comes off as a nice enough guy, but one you would not leave at your home alone to babysit junior.

    We believed Obama, even though he lied. He convinced us he was a man of integrity and we became angry when he didn’t follow through. We all know Obama now. We are familiar with him. Some are still making excuses for his lies. If the choice is Obama or Romney, Obama is the devil we know. The “hope” is O will straighten up in a second term. True, not a very generous “hope”, but a sliver of positive thinking in a world of negative thinkers.

    I think both are corporate controlled puppets doing their master’s bidding.

    You mentioned “candidate Ron Paul said nothing to condemn the notion” in regard to the GOP cheering a non insured dying in the street. I don’t know what this means. Maybe somehow this makes him supportive of inhumane treatment of others? I’m trying to grasp what you infer. That he’s somehow without compassion? I think you miss his position. He wants to dismantle the nanny state in favor of individuals taking care of their own and those in their communities. The way it was before we tossed all that personal responsibility on government. As a physician, he has treated many for free. As a Congressman, he does not participate in the lucrative Congressional pension program. He’s never voted to increase his own salary. He’s never taken a government-paid junket, and he returns a portion of his budget back to the Treasury Department every year.

    I don’t think you’re familiar with the real Ron Paul.

    That is who I will be writing in next month. The republicans claim that by doing that, I am voting for Obama. No. I’m voting against the two party collusion. I’m also voting my conscience.

  6. This amuses me.

    CNN now says there is no support for the orgional Obama story about the tape and attacks in the Middle East. The administration knew they were arming Al Qaida allied revolutionaries. Some were allied with Iran and had fought allied troops in Afghanistan and Iraq.

    They also advertised their intentions on Facebook.

    Meanwhile, a Hispanic network has done the reporting our news media won’t do. Mexico has stringent weapons laws, so our Fast and Furious gun running operation helped the cartels further arm themselves.

    A major drug lord was just captured with one of the guns. Other weapons may be in Columbia and nearby countries. Another of our border patrolmen was also shot.

    Unlike other recoveries, the gap between rich and poor is growing.The rich earned a little more, while the middle and lower classes lost ground.

    Our land provides food which everyone needs. Inflation will take a further bite out of budgets, but so far, our income is stable. Thus, I am growing richer every day by comparison to much of the rest of the country.

    Canada ranks number three, I think in economic and other freedom.The US is about 18.

    Heck of a job, Barry. Its falling apart. The center will not hold. Will it happen before or after the election?

    I feel good in another way. You are Mensa material. After reading your reasoning, I’m reasessing my mental skills.

    Newt and thor, please report to the blog. Rutherford needs all of the help he can get.

  7. “One who you would not want to leave at your home to baby sit junior”? Why not?

    Bill Clinton, a Democratic leading light who got credit for giving Obama a poll bounce is documented woman abuser, purger and accused rapist.

    Do you know something about Romney we don’t?

    I’m glad you are not voting for Obama, but the two candidates are not the same. One is a socialist who is hostile to our national standing. The other is a cardboard figure who while a nice guy changes like the wind. He is basically a capitalist.

  8. James,

    I’m equally as confused about Poolman’s reasoning, though I will not attempt to change his mind.

    Ron Paul is many things to many people, and some of Paul’s ideas I actually approve and wish Romney would adopt. I certainly can’t say the same of Obama’s ideas.

    But the fact that Poolman “hopes” Obama will straighten out the second term? Why would Poolman have any hope for change, when Obama will then be completely unencumbered by threat of reelection?

    ———–

    Poolman, give the devil Obama his due (your words, not mine). Do you expect the devil to change when finally unleashed and unrestrained upon this world in those last days?

    I would expect Obama to grow substantially worse and more detached from the cruel reality of brokenness, more bitter and if possible, even more arrogant; certainly not better or ‘more straight’ in a second term.

    As for Obama’s sheep? They simply bleat in the pasture waiting for the slaughter, to be sheared first. All parts will be used. For them, I hold little sympathy. and will share in the feast upon their bones. 😈

  9. Rutherford, that is a lot of words. For me, it is much simpler, there is no acceptable alternative. I watched all of the Republican debates, heard all the dumb and dumber remarks, and concluded the GOP is a failed party.

  10. “If the choice is Obama or Romney, Obama is the devil we know. The “hope” is O will straighten up in a second term. True, not a very generous “hope”, but a sliver of positive thinking in a world of negative thinkers.”

    Let me guess. You counsel battered women?

  11. Tex,

    I don’t see much hope for America if Obama is re-elected OR if Rmoney wins. I really don’t. The “hope” is held out for those like Rutherford and other Obama supporters. They hope doubling down will bring the change they still fantasize. Others are so dependent on the nanny state they fear others will dismantle. It is a legitimate fear. We cannot go on like this indefinitely.

    But I see it as planned. Orchestrated to bring on our demise. Bye bye Miss American Pie, if you will. Our government was hijacked long before you or I took our first breath.

    I do not expect the devil to change at all, only become bolder as time progresses. And he has. As far as Obama, maybe a second term will mean he doesn’t have to play to the right AND the left. I think that is what democrats hope for. But seeing as he’s a career politician, I don’t expect much different in a second term Obama.

    Obviously, the banksters continue to call the shots, no matter whether a D or R sits in the Oval office. That is the rot. Throughout our history those that have challenged that status quo have been eliminated.

    That there will be a greater air of arrogance with an Obama re-election – no doubt. It will further widen the rifts in our society. But the media has been very busy at opening those rifts. They are a tool of the PTB, yet few see that.

    Turn off the TV for a couple weeks and you get a whole new perspective on life. The little TV I do watch amazes me how blatant and over-the-top the propaganda campaign is against us all. We get more balanced information from outside our nation. It really is sad.

  12. I understand the criticism by popular liberals to criticize Pres. Obama. I’m mainly referring to David Cross’s comment. But I feel like this is criticism for the heck of criticism and proving to the public you don’t agree with everything Obama has done.

    Most people are realistic than the media thinks. When I voted for Obama, I agreed with the direction he wanted to take the country in and his ideas. I and I suspect most people didn’t think the country would be turned around in 4yrs. And certainly don’t believe that Pres. Obama alone would solve most of the problems. Did we forget the narrative that the republican party already set for themselves? They’re still viewed as obstructionist and people hell bent on making sure Pres. Obama gets nothing done.

    Despite of that, he has achieved a lot and policies that he was criticized for years ago are now viewed as have worked in most respect.

    I agree with the notion that Romney and Obama aren’t far apart in their vision for the country. However, do people want to vote for someone who is too scared to admit similar policies with Pres. Obama because of negative reaction from a few within the party…or do they want someone who has a reputation of sticking to his ideas even if it isn’t popular?

  13. Where you and I differ is that I remember when a guy working an ordinary job, without a working wife, could afford a pretty decent life – and put something away for retirement.

    No, PF I remember it well. Let me spell it out for you. My Mom stayed home with me while my Dad earned a good enough salary that we never needed for anything. Was I rich? No. But I was never hungry … Christmas was never a disappointment … I traveled more as a kid to Europe and cross country than most folks do in a lifetime due to my Dad having summers off and the family having the money to afford vacations.

    As early as the 70’s home ownership and another mouth to feed (my sister) tightened the wallet a bit but my Dad was still the sole breadwinner. Then my college education (kicking in 1979) changed the equation a bit and my Mom went back into the workforce after 20 years away from it. We still lived comfortably and wanted for nothing.

    From 1983 to 2007 I was on track to have a very similar life to that of my parents. But the key difference was that one income wouldn’t cut it anymore. Not because of taxes. Because the cost of living increased and salaries did not keep up. From 83 to about 91 I got solid raises. That tapered off after that. By the time I got married in 2000 raises were few and far between. I had already topped out on promotions, achieving the highest non-executive level the company had to offer. My wife worked her butt off but promotions became like raises … very few and far between. Somewhere in there, the outsourcing started. “Resource actions”, a euphemism for layoffs became a way of doing business.

    The trajectory of my having a better life than my Dad got cut short in 2007, NOT by taxes. It got cut short by a changed business climate in which the worker was no longer worth sh*t.

    The FACT is that under Obama almost everyone’s taxes have gone DOWN. Your childhood friend can’t find paying work because there’s cheaper labor in other countries and no company will invest in training him. It’s as simple as that.

    You’ve become an apologist for big business and laid all the blame on the government. It’s simplistic and it’s wrong.

    P.S. Is gov’t spending out of control? Sure it is. But laying all the blame there will never solve our employment problems. Unless we get a change in business culture, all the balanced budgets in the world will not restore the employment numbers we once had.

  14. You dance with the devil, the devil don’t change. The devil changes you.

    But hey, whatever you need to tell yourself, babe.

  15. DensiNewt, you had the NASCAR crowd going for Obama. Next up, the Tea Party will be going for Obama. Then you had the original Queen of Colossus in a size 8 dress.

    I recognize you’re not the sharpest tool in the shed, but you ought to at least try to raise an edge on the blade before you go to chopping.

    Your man will be lucky to win, much less by a much larger margin than 2008.

    It will be Mitt Romney’s biggest mistake if he can’t make Obama, maybe a smidgeon smarter than your alter ego, look a fool tomorrow night.

    Obama off the teleprompter is Joe Biden with nappy hair and worse golf swing.

  16. Well Tigre, it gets confusing as to what Romney’s vision is from one day to the next. Do you think he might be a male politician version of “Sybil”? Is that what Ann was referring to when she worried aloud about Mitt’s mental health?

  17. From the prior thread:

    That’s the damndest thing I’ve ever heard. Holy shit. A constitutional law scholar? Wow. Negative liberties. Just. . . wow.

    Hey genius, where is the problem? When an amendment begins “Congress shall not … ” or “Congress shall make no law that …” I call that “negative liberties”. It does not define the country’s positive obligation to its citizens but rather defines restrictions.

  18. I dunno. You said they were one in the same. You’ll need to ‘splain that.

    And yes. Ann Romney was worried aloud that her husband would have a nervous breakdown and start acting like Obama.

  19. It got cut short by a changed business climate in which the worker was no longer worth sh*t.
    That sword swings both ways Rutherford. Not to be insulting but ultimately that is exactly what you became to your employer. Business is under no obligation to run fat and possibly red just to keep people employed.
    this is exactly the kind of stuff my French Fried post spoke to

  20. Alfie,

    It will fall on deaf ears. Rutherford is simply not capable of distinguishing success from failure, doesn’t understand math, or economics, or finance, or a failure in personal responsibility, or history.

    What Rutherford excels at is grievance and his own falsehoods to claims of his humanity.

    It took me three and one-half years too long, and I should have suspected as much not 90 days into Obama’s failed Presidency, Rutherford was trotting out the race card.

    It’s a matter of record right here for anyone interested.

  21. “Hey genius, where is the problem?”

    Hey jerk, what is the source of the positive liberties he is promoting for redistribution that were overlooked by the founders? I know you’re a political philosophy and constitutional scholar. Since this locks completely with the “you didn’t build that” speech, perhaps you can tell us what the framers had in mind in the realm of liberties designed for redistribution.

    I’ll wait.

  22. If God forbid America dumb enough not once but twice to elect a malignant narcissist and colossal, proven failure

    No man has been reelected under the current economic circumstances. If it happens this year, it says nothing about the American people and everything about your candidate and your party. The doom will have been brought on by you and yours, a group full of resentment, hate and spite, reflected in your party platform and exploited by your weak candidate.

  23. Poolman,

    Do you know how many millions of private endorsements I could provide that would say the exact thing using the name Obama in a letter to the editor? I read them everyday in the T-World, in fact they dominate the paper (don’t believe me, take a look at the opinion section) and Tulsa will still most likely go 65-70% for Mitt Romney.

    For someone to make such a claim that they paid 35% of their income in taxes, they most likely would have had to file under a small business with assets greater than $10MM.

    Assuming this letter is true for one moment, small business owners will overwhelmingly be voting for Mitt Romney – it is one of the core constituencies of the Republican party, as are white males, married white women, Veterans, Evangelicals, professionals, Cubans, etc….

    Do you ever ask yourself if what you read is reflective of the norm?

  24. Redistribution words:

    Promote the general welfare. Provide for the common defense.

    Article 1, section 8: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

    What are taxes if not redistribution?

  25. If it happens this year, it says nothing about the American people and everything about your candidate and your party.

    Actually, with the record of the last four years, it will say everything about the American populace in the fact we have rejected the idea of the American ideal and productivity, and a majority of the voting constituency is for sale to the highest bidder offering the most unearned bennies and legalizing theft. In other words, we are already Greece and most just don’t recognize it yet.

    The doom will have been brought on by you and yours, a group full of resentment, hate and spite, reflected in your party platform and exploited by your weak candidate.

    From the man that takes his marching orders from MSNBC to scold about resentment, hate and spite? That’s rich. 😆 A party platform that rejected Jerusalem and God, only to realize that didn’t sell, so against the wishes of the mob, shoved it back in? 😆

    Once again, you surmise that Mitt Romney a weak candidate. I have seen nothing yet to confirm that, and mind you Romney was not my first selection.

    What we do know for an absolute fact that Obama is a failed President by every measure.

  26. What are taxes if not redistribution?

    Exactly, Poolman. Very good observation and one many of us have been attempting to make the last four years. There is nothing uniform about a tax code where 47% of the working populace doesn’t pay a dime to federal taxes – only payroll taxes.

    You should go further and define general welfare, because it does that too, and you would see health care is in no way included in that definition. Neither are a multitude of other taxes we currently pay.

  27. @poolman 35 I have to ask…
    seeing as you are a Paul devotee do you find those words to mean what they mean 9and what I imagine Paul believes) or do you apply the modern Liberal slant to them? Also just in case something far more sinister is afoot in your mind…is it your position that from the get go the FF’s were trying to screw the People?

  28. Do you ever ask yourself if what you read is reflective of the norm?

    I reject the ‘norm’ for what it presumes. We are not one of us the same. Everything I read I expect to have a bias. Opinions are just that. I reject those who merely parrot others. I prefer free thinkers that are not afraid to confront societal norms. I respect those that speak out against authority when that authority is wrong and oppressive.

    Maybe that’s why I’ve supported the Occupy movement. They may not all be honorable or right or in agreement, but they do hold a legitimate and justifiable position against the banking cartel that steers our economy in their own best interests.

  29. re 38, I don’t think the FF were out to screw the people. Of course ‘the people’ did not include women and blacks in their view. They were already screwed.

    But the Constitution limits the federal government’s power over states and individuals. It has grown FAR beyond the original intent.

    The IRS and the Fed were also added later and operate counter to the founder’s intent. I am for giving powers back to states and decreasing the over-reach of the federal government. Neither party wants to go there.

    One wants socialism, the other privatization. Both are out of line with the FF. We only quote the FF when we agree with them and ignore the MANY warnings they pronounced.

  30. “But the Constitution limits the federal government’s power over states and individuals. It has grown FAR beyond the original intent.”

    What? I thought Article 1, section 8 authorized redistribution of wealth under your interpretation. Which is it?

    (damn that’s absurd even for you Poolman)

  31. What? I thought Article 1, section 8 authorized redistribution of wealth under your interpretation. Which is it?

    Truly lawyeresk. You prefer black and white? That isn’t consistent with how you’ve argued in the past.

    Do you deny there is wording that promotes some redistribution?

    Do you deny that redistribution has been taken beyond the original intent of the founders?

    Answer honestly, if you can, then I’ll elaborate if need be.

  32. Do you deny there is wording that promotes some redistribution?

    Yes.

    Do you deny that redistribution has been taken beyond the original intent of the founders?

    I deny that it was ever the intent to redistribute wealth among the citizens under Article I (or any federal taxing and spending provisions).

    I look forward to your answer. Please include how the concept of “liberty” applies for extra credit since that is the heart of the argument.

  33. You deny that any form of wealth redistribution was intended.

    How then were these general and common goals to be achieved if not by collective contribution?

  34. Liberty is given up for governance. The extent responsibility is given to government proportionally decreases individual liberty.

    How do you interpret the words all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States if not as leveling the playing field?

  35. I don’t understand your question. “Collective contribution” is not the same as federal redistribution of wealth among citizens.

    Please answer. We were talking about “negative liberties” and redistribution under the constitution, not anarchy. What concept of liberty are you arguing was intended by the FF in federal confiscation of wealth and redistribution?

  36. I don’t understand your question. “Collective contribution” is not the same as federal redistribution of wealth among citizens.

    Okay. Let’s assume the government doesn’t produce wealth. I think we can agree there. But government has been given responsibility by the collective to provide common goals. Agreed? Those goals require provision, be it money, labor, physical property or resources, etc., all of which are considered as wealth. Follow? That wealth is in the possession of the people of this nation collectively and requires the contribution by said people to be distributed for the common goals stated in the Constitution.

    That is the very essence of redistribution.

    I’m not talking ‘negative liberties’. You’re confusing arguments.

  37. Yes, the federal government has to function. That is not “the very essence of redistribution.” Confiscating wealth from one citizen to to give to another in order to “level the playing field” is “the very essence of redistribution.” It is also “the very essence” of Marxism.

    Now we were talking about liberty. . .

  38. One is a socialist who is hostile to our national standing.

    If Obama is a socialist, he’s not a very good one. Maybe I should rethink my vote … he fails as a socialist. 😉

    But James, I would trust Romney to watch my kid. I think he’s a personally decent man who is a political coward. He has no business in politics. He belongs in the private sector where he has excelled the most. I suppose the depths to which he’s willing to pander speak to character but should he lose the election, I wish him no ill will and hope he continues to do what he does best … maybe with more of an eye for public service through private sector activity.

  39. How can one take a party seriously when they ask for your wedding gifts, raffle tickets to dinners with Barack, and this…tell me DensiNewt created this: 😈

  40. “leveling the playing?” What you talking about Willis? That has to do with discriminatory taxation. Not equalizing wealth among the citizens.

    I know you like baseball, but it’s no excuse for being out in left field on this. Uniform. And no, that isn’t what the players are wearing.

    I DO NOT ADVOCATE EQUALIZING WEALTH AMONG CITIZENS!!!

    Uniform requirements in every jurisdiction regarding duties, imposts, and excises. Though these words have often been debated, there is not total agreement as to their original intent or modern meaning. Most folks agree as you claim, this applies to taxation. It is therefore part of the contribution(s) the collective makes TO government, nothing in regard to how it is DOLED back (usage-wise) to the collective.

    It makes it unlawful for two different persons in any place within the republic to be taxed differently. Non “discriminatory” taxation. True. Uniform = the same. The level playing field analogy.

    It means there are not separate or special rates or rules for any of us participating in and contributing to the collective cost of governance.

    Does this mean we should all pay in the same monetary amount, or an equal percentage of our wealth? Does it apply to commerce exclusively or at all? Does it encompass how much stuff we hold as assets, as in parcels of property or the space we take up? I don’t know. I DO know it attempts to apply an evenness or fairness to all participants no matter where they reside or what their social status is.

    I have said in the past that I do not agree with the way government spends our wealth. The where and how and vast inefficiencies. I also do not feel we should depend on government to nurture and sustain us. I feel there are plenty that do suck the teat and thereby harm the collective by pulling the system down. These fall in all classes.

    The biggest sinners are ripping us off in million dollar amounts. Corporate entities paying no taxes yet doing business here (GE, Verizon), tax law loophole seekers, off-shore wealth hoarders and other shell game players, all cheating the government out of taxes. Those sheltering profits from disclosure and paying fair tax by MANipulating™ the system. Not to mention the fractional banking Ponzi schemers we reward and promote in our system of government.

    You can add up all the welfare and food stamp recipients and not come anywhere close to the revenues lost to those gaming the system.

    That is why I advocate a top down douche.

  41. Rutherford, I didn’t say Obama was a good socialist. I said he is a socialist.

    The Gazebo to Nowhere and the asbestos he tried to remove from a Chicago low income housing project, are on a small scale similar to his record as president. The Annenberg Challenge led by Obama and Bill Ayres was intended to improve educational quality in Chicago.

    A few years later, Romney fixed the Winter Olympics.

    I thought Poolman wrote he wouldn’t trust Romneny with his children. I should take more time reading here. Time Magazine wrote that some of Romney’s shifting is related to his Mormon culture. They seem to adapt to changing circumstances.

    I don’t think Obama is a political coward, and I would trust him with our children as I would Romney, but I would let the children know, Obama is a habitual liar.

  42. You can add up all the welfare and food stamp recipients and not come anywhere close to the revenues lost to those gaming the system.

    And your proof of this is?

  43. Yes, the federal government has to function. That is not “the very essence of redistribution.” Confiscating wealth from one citizen to to give to another in order to “level the playing field” is “the very essence of redistribution.” It is also “the very essence” of Marxism.

    You like twisting words and distorting concepts.

    The federal government has to function. If true, it takes resources to enable it to function. Those resources, while in the hands of the people, are undistributed resources. Those people distribute their resources to the government, and they then become distributed resources. The government takes and distributes those same resources. They then become redistributed resources, the process is known as redistribution. Simple enough?

    No confiscation or political ideology is inferred in its basic definition.

    I know simple concepts and basic definitions elude you.

    Now it is true there is a concept of “economic redistribution” which advocates spreading the wealth among all. There is also redistribution as it applies to chemical reaction and exchanges. And there is redistribution as it applies to territory. It doesn’t change the basic definition, however. The simple concept carries in all cases.

  44. For me, it is much simpler, there is no acceptable alternative. I watched all of the Republican debates, heard all the dumb and dumber remarks, and concluded the GOP is a failed party.

    LOL Newt, I always have had a hard time with brevity. 😉

  45. I believe you will find the discrepancy between single and married women has faded

    Newt, I’d like to see the data but I tend to agree with you. I don’t think an 18 point gender gap can be composed of single women only.

  46. “nappy hair ” — Tex “Archie” Taylor. 😆

    BTW … Tex if anyone thought your new avatar was actually a pic of you, it would be a bit scary … looks like a spooky bi-sexual … kind of David Bowie-esque. 🙂

    I’m not sure you ever answered my earlier query about it … is it Obama morphed with Warren?

  47. I don’t think there’s an 18 point gap. That’s the point.

    What are you stooges thinking Obama is running away with this going to do if Obama gets beat, worse if he gets beat soundly? You going to bury your heads in the sand?

    I’ve never witnessed such unfounded arrogance as I have from the Left recently. You must know something I don’t.

    So you guys think America is completely flipped the script since Nov. 2010?

    Really? I mean, even Rutherford isn’t that deluded.

  48. So now its ok to say Hussein?

    Depends on who says it and why. I included the middle name very deliberately to embrace it and not run away from it. I’m delighted that our current President is a xenophobe’s worst nightmare. Let the nightmare continue another four years!

  49. Am I really supposed to take a post that cites comedians serious?

    You know full well much truth is said in jest. On a good night Jon Stewart tells more truth than Scott Pelley, Brian Williams and Diane Sawyer combined.

  50. That is a lie and morphs into a whopper starting in 2013 /14

    Not a lie and your morphing moves the goal posts. I’m not talking the future. And everyone knows to tackle the deficit some mixture of cost cutting and revenue must be achieved. That means tax hikes on someone …. who, we don’t yet know.

  51. I am not a xenophobe, but I am afraid of elephants. A big one is lurking nearby. Obama miscalculated and his Mideastern policy is wrecked. He lied about it to save the election. Much of the country is pretending it isn’t there, so far.

    That is dangerous on several levels. Would you buy a used car from this man?

  52. Business is under no obligation to run fat and possibly red just to keep people employed.

    If I truly believed this was a choice between layoff or close down the business, I might agree with you Alfie. And I do believe for some businesses, that might initially have been the choice. But once corporations discovered they could get very rich by hiring cheap labor and not raising salaries on their American workers it no longer became a matter of corp survival. It became a matter of greed. When the CEO makes 20 to 50 times as much as the lowest paid employee (that’s probably a conservative estimate) things have gone off track.

  53. Tex asked a good question. Some distraught people actually left the country after Bush won. If anyone is so disposed, I suggest Vancouver.

    We know who will pay more taxes. We all will. It is only a matter of time, and if anyone thinks we will ever repay the debt, he/she isn’t paying attention. We don’t have to visit Europe. It is moving here.,

  54. Rutherford is simply not capable of distinguishing success from failure, doesn’t understand math, or economics, or finance, or a failure in personal responsibility, or history.

    You’ve become a corporate shill. Of all the folks on this blog I never expected it from you.

  55. perhaps you can tell us what the framers had in mind in the realm of liberties designed for redistribution.

    Didn’t seem to me Tigre that the redistribution part got up your dander. You went nuts over “negative liberties”. That is what I specifically defended.

  56. @64 ok lol I presume you don’t include me in that mix. I could speak to O needing a little xenophobia,especially if BP agents keep getting shot at the border.As for Obama being a xenophobes worst nightmare I think you overstate it more than a tad. I’d agree he’s a racists worse nightmare though.
    @65 negative,well sorta, the three news pro’s you mentioned are a joke and not in a funny way.
    @66 I’m not moving the goal posts at all. First and foremost the biggest tax relief aka the famed and fabled 95% of folks was a lie. It was a very minor tic secondary to lessening SS withholding . Its back and neither us nor SS are the better for it. Lets also be clear that I am not speaking of potential tax increases in the New Year. I speak of DEFINITE ones that are part and parcel to ACA….these are squarely aimed at the middle class directly and indirectly. Don’t get me started on the other taxation lines queuing up.
    I’m with you on revenue and I’m right there in saying the piper is looking to be paid. I am also screaming that this is in no way 1992+ so let’s be real.

  57. @ 68 well there’s a great example of how you and I could have a really neat discussion.
    Let’s connect all of the dots of my worldview for a second.
    First I’m big on not everyone goes to college. I’m also very vocal that too much education,especially that of little real value inflates what people think they are worth.
    Now let’s look at businesses who have to strive for value in everything including its human resources. People,employees must be actually worth what they do and worth everything expended on them. Regulatory,compensation etc. all have a part in this.
    Min wage is a great area to expand on this.
    Seriously I hate that this can’t be a real conversation. night

  58. Once again, you surmise that Mitt Romney a weak candidate. I have seen nothing yet to confirm that

    You’re kidding right? OK, I know I said no poll points … but c’mon, in this economy every swing state is leaning Obama!!!! And Mitt is a strong candidate? What are you smoking? Every conservative columnist without exception has scolded the man for his campaign strategy. Strong candidate?

    This is why arguing with you and yours vacillates between frustrating and entertaining. It’s like a bunch of delusional mental patients. The only reason I haven’t called this election yet is I know it is possible for Mitt to score some fatal body blows in the next three weeks or so.

    The debate is a very dangerous place for Obama. Will Romney be up to it?

  59. and you would see health care is in no way included in that definition

    Says who???? Tex “Jefferson” Taylor??? Feh. I say “general welfare” leaves the door waaaaaay f*cking open.

  60. Businesses have a duty to maximize profits, especially if they have stockholders or the bank to pay. They are not social institutions designed to provide jobs for people. Their duty is to make as much money as they can, not hold back because it violates some sort of social contract. If they are successful, they use the extras money for development and a rainy day. Those with that task are non profits.

    I agree, greed motivates executives and their employees. I also agree the high executive salaries are outrageous, but that is a different issue from company profits Stockholders need to be proactive about how the business is run. If the disparity is too great, employees might unite and express their displeasure if the wage structure is obviously unfair.

  61. The Federalist? Bah. Prof. Rutherford is satisfied that the general welfare clause authorizes unfettered governmental intrusion. 10th Amendment? Fuck that.

    Glad you read the Obamacare opinion.

  62. Well gee Densi. I don’t know.

    According to you, it’s a moot point and we can stick a fork in Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan this minute. Why R & R is so far behind in the swing states according to Rutherford Nostradamus, that we need to look ahead to Barack Hussein Obama II.

    So let’s contrast that to Barack Obama’s plan of half again stimulus for economic policy during the first year of Barack Hussein Obama’s second term.

    Assuming Obama taxes millionaires and billionaires at 100% tax rate, and the growth rate of the economy remains static, and all else held equal, we will only have a deficit of 1,270,000,000,000.00 give or take a few billion for the fiscal year 2013 as predicted by the CBO.

    Now, I know math isn’t your thing, Newt. So let me explain in a way even DensiNewt might, and I emphasize might understand:

    Next year, assuming Barack Obama wins and is able to implement his vast cost savings of taxing millionaires and billionaires at 100%, it will cost every man, woman and child in America $4,156.00 plus interest accumulated thereafter in perpetuity for 2013 only.

    Then also in 2013, we can add another $430,000,000 or $1,396.00 per person, per year plus interest in additional national debt to account for stimulus II.

    So my question is, what can I expect from Barack Obama in 2013 besides $5,552 of debt plus interest as far as the eye can see for my vote?

    1.3% annual growth, median income dropping %8.1 percent during Barack I when he had promised %5.6 by now, and what?

    Another 15-20 million added to the food stamp rolls?

    Does that make sense, or do I need to explain further?

  63. Guarantee there won’t be a LIB ONE that will bother to even address my question in #83. And I’ll bet that there won’t be mention one of how poorly Obama’s foreign policy plan has panned out, as demonstrated in Libya and Egypt this last month.

    Complete and abject failure – utter and gross incompetence of Barack Obama and Hillary Rotten Clinton helped to create an environment of four dead American citizens on 9/11 of this year, though they were even forewarned by both Libyan and Egyptian operatives.

    The coverup to reelect Barack Obama by the Marxist Malleable Media is at a level I have never seen in my lifetime.

    Libya is infinitely worse than anything of Watergate. Four dead American citizens and not a peep.

    That’s how utterly corrupt half of our country has become.

  64. Obama also said before the election that we are spending too much on suburbs. He advocated raising taxes and using extra suburban money to start businesses etc on minorities.

  65. James,

    You didn’t like the cadence and the anger from Brotha Obama as he gave a shoot out to ArchAngel Jeremiah and lied through his teeth about New Orleans? We gave that hole $110 billion dollars to rebuild. Think about that – one city – $110 billion dollars.

    This pretentious prick for President could be caught molesting little boys, screwing his dead grandmother’s corpse, and betting on dog fighting during the debates, and swells like Rutherford will still be voting straight ‘D’ while welling up with tears when Obama speaks.

    Matters not. These people are barren souls without goodness or decency….

    I know I’m over the top – but I swear I don’t recognize these zombies as people. And I most certainly don’t want to support them.

  66. The US ignored warnings about security near the counsel in . Benghazi As the attack began, the administration suborndinated Americans’ safety to concerns about Libya’s sovereignty and permission to deploy troops.

    The administration blamed a convienient video to save itself from the news that al Qada is still active, and we are as unpopular as we were when Bush was president.

    Obama lied to us all for political reasons. LIberals can’t say much because to do so forces them to lie to us or themselves, They might as well argue that the sky is green.

  67. “Didn’t seem to me Tigre that the redistribution part got up your dander. You went nuts over “negative liberties”. That is what I specifically defended.”

    I also mentioned property rights.

    Read my question again.

  68. That’s right, Tex, I don’t like the cadence either.what you wrote is true, and few seem to care,

    As difficult as Obama is, I blame the press. They have constitutional safeguards because they are responsible for informing the people. I have pet names for the notables, For example, Diane Sawyer is “that blond bitch.,” My wife rolls her eyes and tells me to switch stations,

  69. Pravda doesn’t have anything on the MMM, James. I’m not kidding – they are that corrupt. Simple agitprop for the Dimocratic Party.

    I think a large part of it is the problem with Journalism now caters to the Left; mainly, because it doesn’t require math or technical skills. 🙂

    DensiNewt would have made a dynamite journalist.

  70. Invoking the morbidly obese Wattle Jean prattle, DensiNewt, isn’t an answer – it’s a dodge. But it’s about the capability I’ve come to expect from the inane, the dependent, and the predictably dishonest.

    Apparently, you don’t know arithmetic because the concept of a trillion is well beyond your capacity, so I simplified conceptually and personally so that even you could understand and apply it to your nonexistent savings. Still didn’t work.

    However, I don’t refer to you as incapable. I refer to you as borderline moron.

  71. 😆 Curiosity killed the cat.

    In this case, it killed DensiNewt’s argument.

    Want to see Juanita “Wattle” Jean’s math skills that Newton brags?

    Paul Ryan has been in Congress since Elvis died and if I have been paying 20% more taxes than I need to all that time, I’m kinda hacked off. Hacked off at Paul Ryan. Why has he been so quiet about this math trick?

    Paul Ryan was seven years old when Elvis died. 😆 😆 😆

    Pass that on to Wattle, will you Densi?

  72. Rapid deterioration of the mind is a bitch. Every day after work, I watch the Grim Reaper pickle the brain of a guy only 60. When he has a tempor tantrum, I pretend like I do to. I fake like my brain is fucked just like his. Seems to help. Comrades.

    I spent the better half of today looking for another man’s rotten tooth. Not a long story…..and not very interesting. Finally found his tooth. Gave it to him. Took him to the dentist, only to learn said tooth is missing again. Go back to house, find the rotten boolie for the second time and put it in my pocket. Back to the dentist.

  73. Okay Poolman. I got your preschool level point.

    Now go take your medication.

    Typical behavior when Tigre realizes he has lost the argument.

    Poolman I give you props. Tigre levels a reasonable criticism at me that I argue with him in terse sound bites and I don’t elaborate to show that I’m addressing his “finer points”. You on the other hand engaged fully with Tigre, with great elaboration … and very clear rhetoric. When Tigre still couldn’t win the day, he gives an eye roll.

    Tigre, bottom line … when the government forces you to give it money (called a tax) so that it can do “stuff” for lots of other people, that is a form of redistribution. If you don’t understand that, then again, as has happened so many times in the past, you don’t understand English.

    And Poolman is also right on this …. “negative liberties” and redistribution are two completely different topics. Your first exasperated sigh at “legal dummy” Obama was not about redistribution but about “negative liberties”. I addressed this and you haven’t been able to refute it.

    You’re not doing very well tonight Sir. Are you still on the mend? That will be taken into account when judging your arguments.

  74. Tex, you’re a kick and a half. As the most humorless man in the world, you don’t get sarcasm. So you fall back on insulting a talented humorist’s physical appearance, somehow I doubt you have any room to talk. When was the last time you had a lap?

  75. I have a couple of ideas for drinking games during the debate: drink every time Mitt does one of his “rehearsed zingers” or drink every time Obama says 47. Your choice.

  76. As the most humorless man in the world, you don’t get sarcasm. So you fall back on insulting a talented humorist’s physical appearance

    😆 Densi, Wattle is almost as fat as you are nasty looking. I wasn’t just mocking Wattle’s grotesque appearance – resembling something between a turkey and the abominable snowman.

    I was also mocking Wattle’s profound ignorance, her history, her mathematical skills, her politics, her stupid attempt at humor which only brainless dimwits like you could possibly find funny, and her miserable life carrying around her oxygen bottle because she’s so damn fat, it’s a wonder she doesn’t have apnea while she types.

    Which brings me to a very important question, which you’re the perfect candidate to answer. Why do butt ugly people want their mug on the net? Is it to turn our stomachs?

    I doubt you have any room to talk. When was the last time you had a lap?

    Going on ten hours ago – about 16 of them to be precise in 33:45. What to have a go at a run for some cash, Flo? 😀

  77. Tigre, I believe this one sentence from Nostradamus helps to summarize the mass confusion on the Left:

    when the government forces you to give it money (called a tax) so that it can do “stuff” for lots of other people, that is a form of redistribution

    Emphasis on “other people.” Not the country, not her defense, not the common good, or the will of the people – “other people.”

    Ask not what you can do for your country…ask what your country can do for you.

    It’s the “progressive” motto.

  78. So Tex, if one doesn’t know the meaning of googolplex, they can’t understand that another tax cut for Romney is the country’s loss? After all he would only put in his Swiss bank account. Can you spell greedy?
    Apparently I hit a nerve, kind of out of shape are you? Maybe more than kind of out of shape?

  79. Well, I don’t know Densi.. Put your money where your ample, accommodating ass is, and we’ll have a go at it to see how out of shape I am. I’ll roll you around the track to enhance the work out about the second lap. Bring your “executive” husband too. 😛

    Did you ever “hook up” with that dreamy one with the red hair? Damn, what a site that must have been – brown sugar and carrot top.

    Romney shelters his money like any smart American with money would (after taxes, mind you) – out of the reach of unintelligent mooches like you, and thieves like Obama.

    Perfectly legal and wonderfully smart.

  80. You mean the one who does weights three times a week; either runs, rows, or does yoga on the days he doesn’t go to the gym?

  81. Rutherford –

    The problem is that you cannot see that all these arguments have been made before. But in the final analysis, what we DID at one time worked; what we are DOING now does not; what we WILL do has been tried numerous times – always with good intent, like yours – and has always failed catastrophically.

    Despondent. There is no other word for it. Thank God I won’t live to see the final days. My poor children and THEIR children – if they can afford to have any. We have failed them so very miserably.

    I always wondered what it was like for the elders of a great civilization to watch it fall, fully cognizant that they could not stop the tide of the ignorant who were gleefully carrying it headlong to its death. Now I know.

    *************

    It’s time to face the sad fact that I can do nothing for my country. All I can do is marshal every resource and skill to benefit my own family. Sorry, Rutherford. You – and those like you – are on your own. God help you when the rest of the productive Americans realize what *I* have realized, and quit providing the things you need to survive. It is coming, my friend, and you did it to yourself.

  82. Tex, Obama’s math wasn’t so good either. I think when he commorated the Civil Rights movement, he placed himself somewhere before he was born.

  83. R, you thinking your or Poolman made a point of value is embarrassing. Explain your defense of Obama’s negative liberties comment. You seem to think you have. I have not seen it. The power to tax and finance government equals the constitutional power to redistribute wealth as the FF envisioned is not a response. If you accept what Poolman said, he’d be talking about “positive liberties,” wouldn’t he? The ones that can;t be found in the Consituion? This argument impresses you? You’re dumber than I thought.

    Now I asked you a question. Why don’t you take a pass at it while you feign awe at the stupidity of Poolman’s inability to discuss redistribution — the one discussed by Obama — not your moronic comparisons to Article II taxing.

    Please elaborate on the finer points of the general welfare clause too. Dumb.

    I am convinced you have never read the Constitution Rutherford. My 10 year old son has a better grasp than you do. And I’m being dead serious. You really don’t have a clue. Obama’s statements about the document of “negative liberties” in effect restricting rights of the FEDERAL government (a concept of federalism one that you still don’t understand) to carry out its job is so fucking stupid and so telling you and Obama should be hit with a rolled up newspaper. And you think it’s heavy. Yeah. That was real ass kicking I got there. 🙄

    Now I asked you a question you are avoiding by trying to prop up Poolman’s profound wisdom. I said I’d wait.

  84. R, sitting in traffic this morning, thinking about your post,and thinking about your view of the role of the federal government, I wondered something about you that is most personal. It nags because of the hostility and accusatory tone amounting to lack of compassion (“HUMAN”) in your recent comments and posts, and frankly what I believe is most unusual lack of depth in your reasoning lately. Know that I will be completely satisfied if you prefer not to answer since it is your prerogative.

    My question to you is, “do you personally do anything charitable of any significance?”

    I know your financial resources are quite limited from what you’ve told us, so monetary contribution is one that I assume you don’t feel an ability to make. But what of your time? Given your media habits, it seems that time and talent are in abundant supply. Do you offer them to anyone in need?

    Know that I ask not for mere edification. I am truly interested in trying to understand something about your POV that was touched off by the discussion of liberty as conceived by the FF.

    Again, and in all sincerity, “I don’t care to discuss that in a public forum particularly with the likes of you” is an acceptable response.

  85. It’s time to face the sad fact that I can do nothing for my country.

    Sure you can.

    The problem with America isn’t Obama. It’s the people who put him there to begin with. Help me come up with a way to remove ourselves from these folks, even if it means breaking away. Do it for your kids.

    You think I’m over the top? How could the American left not be the enemy?

    Because they don’t strap suicide bombs to the vest? Don’t carry a gun? They’re bleeding the country slowly, albeit more quickly under this feckless Marxist for President, invariably aiding and abetting our enemy. They’ve ruined our education system. They lie, they propagandize, they cheat. They’re thieves, distortionists, parasites, frankly stupid, and many of them agitprop for communism. Our media is so corrupt, it’s nauseating.

    What you said now, I said 8/10 years ago. Maybe I’m over the top, but I don’t vacillate about who the real enemy is. The American Left is 1,000 times more dangerous and destructive than radical Islam. We either destroy it, leave it, or destroy ourselves.

    When you finally see them as the real enemy like I do, and I know that makes you uncomfortable to talk that way but they are, then clarity becomes very clear. These people are Kool Aid drinkers – they’re not just confused; they are unteachable, they are amoral, and they have no business having any influence on your children. You can lie down and whimper, or you can gird up the loins.

    I’m not kidding. I have no intent of going down on the sinking ship. And I believe if Obama should win, it will be the tipping point. It will take a small time to gather ourselves – if nothing else, let’s stop kidding ourselves this is a country united. We can do that right now.

  86. You think I’m over the top?
    Maybe I’m over the top, but I don’t vacillate about who the real enemy is. The American Left is 1,000 times more dangerous and destructive than radical Islam. We either destroy it, leave it, or destroy ourselves.You can lie down and whimper, or you can gird up the loins.

    You’re a loon.

  87. Pfessor, empires and civilizations tend to die piecemeal as organisms do. Parts of Rome survived in southern France for several generations. King Arthur stories may record a similar last stand.

    The red states are as a whole economically in better shape than blue states. The US will not die at once when and if it does.

  88. Wow. Been away for a while but this thread seems even more sour than normal. Skipped ahead so sorry if I double up on someone.

    Why all the angst, rightie tighties? Isn’t tonight the night you guys have been waiting nearly four years for? Obama, standing naked and shivering, teleprompter-less, beneath the Socratic titan known as Mitt Romney. I can almost hear the cries of rapture as the job-creating colossus empties his quiver of zingers on the communist Kenyan welfare siren.

    Epic.

  89. A little over the top their thor @113
    Although I think you capture the mood of some I don’t think it’s too grounded in reality. You get points for pure flair though.
    I am upgraded to doubtful to watch tonight as opposed to my previous outright refusal.
    I doubt there is actually a whole lot of folks that will be moved by the debates themselves as opposed to the sound bites afterwards. That is the sad reality of the bulk of our electorate.
    I think it is partly because of this that independents especially will not have truly made up their mind until they find themselves in the booth.
    The deal breaker/maker will be whom they believe is best suited to move the economy.

  90. Rutherford as per our earlier. There is a definite stew that America needs to make some serious chefs decisions on. Some of the ingredients include: min.wage,the “living” wage,employee worth & human capital,economic value of work performed.
    We as a nation really need to wrap our heads around some of those concepts if we are to survive let alone prosper. The “new” jobs on the horizon are perhaps a great place to start. If we embrace newness via the old ways we’re really just settling to repeat our problems.

  91. The red states are as a whole economically in better shape than blue states. The US will not die at once when and if it does.

    I think there is a major caveat to that statement and it lies in the interdependence the USA has evolved. I would say that the future holds many variables that can easily deliver a surprising number of ass kickings to many a Blue State especially those more invested in the knowledge economy.(MA,NY for ex.)

  92. re 110… Cuckoo is right. 😆 Always the witch hunt and ignoring the genuine source of our woes. Too bad. Radical Islam is now playing second fiddle in the maniacal orchestral machinations of his mind.

    Some of us DID learn and do extrapolate from fundamental truths often introduced in preschool and during our elementary years. Others were obviously busy amassing spitball arsenals.

    I prefer a life unadorned with aggrandizement.

  93. “I am upgraded to doubtful to watch tonight as opposed to my previous outright refusal.” – Alfie

    I hope you watch it. More fun to debate when it’s not relayed through spin doctors. (That’s why, though we rarely agree, I like engaging with you.) I have to record the debate, will be out. See you guys tonight.

  94. “Collective contribution” is not the same as federal redistribution of wealth among citizens.

    Tigre I think you’re being way too literal here. You are limiting your definition of redistribution to actual cash payments to one set of people out of the tax dollars of another set of people. You limit the definition so you can rail against welfare (the program, not the Constitutional concept of “general welfare”).

    I submit that when I give my money to the government so they can apply that money to assist in the general welfare of the nation, that is a form of redistribution. It might be a case of cash for services, as opposed to cash for cash payment to others (i.e. the welfare PROGRAM).

    Since poverty hurts the country, not just the poor, it is within the language of the constitution (general welfare) to justify the welfare program. Same goes for a national health care insurance system.

    I think I’m paraphrasing Biblical verse here but …. whatever helps the least of us, helps us all.

  95. I’m a little lost so if I get the time I may have to revisit previous comments re redistribution and the debate thereof .
    I will say this though. For me when one speaks of redistribution it is meant NOT as part of any entitlement program or adherence to a fair tax system but as a perversion of the two. An unfair tax system which literally puts money in specific places with no real goal other than a childish belief that the field is being leveled.
    Am I in anyones ballpark with that?

  96. I know simple concepts and basic definitions elude you.

    Nope, that’s not Tigre’s problem.

    You like twisting words and distorting concepts.

    THAT’S TIGRE’S PROBLEM!!

  97. “Gaming the system” has become synonymous with illegality,why?
    And not for nothing R but I think you celebrate Poolmans comment without fully understanding his point.

  98. An unfair tax system which literally puts money in specific places with no real goal other than a childish belief that the field is being leveled.
    Am I in anyones ballpark with that?

    Well, I think you’ve definitely put your finger on the dispute.

    IMHO this has nothing to do with leveling the playing field. No rich man ever got poor paying his taxes … so let’s stop that myth right now. No poor man ever got rich on welfare and food stamps. So let’s lay that to rest. There is no leveling of the playing field. There is helping those in need, simple as that.

  99. Obama himself has said he wants to level the playing field, and his statement contradicts what you just wrote, Rutherford.The difference stems from Obama’s socialism and your location somewhere away from the edge.

    You write no rich man ever got poor paying his taxes. If the French actually charge a 75% tax rate many rich will be poorer than they are if they don’t flee to another county.

  100. I think I’m paraphrasing Biblical verse here but …. whatever helps the least of us, helps us all.

    I think the verse you refer to is ‘…whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’ The concept is regarding one’s personal affairs and not those of the collective or government.

    I understand many look to government as the ultimate authority, but that isn’t the case with true believers. Government is a force imposed on us and cannot in itself be compassionate. Only people can choose compassion. Forced charity is not charity at all. Fair and evenness, uniform and common, consistent and general ARE things governments can attempt to achieve. Just remember that government, like any other institutional entity, is self-serving and will sacrifice people to maintain control and exhibit authority.

  101. “Gaming the system” has become synonymous with illegality,why?

    Often it does involve illegal acts. Google Bradley Birkenfeld for one example.

    Sometimes it is just educating oneself in what can and cannot be done. That is perfectly legal, but requires some diligence and usually research. With the way we tend to complicate things legislatively, like our tax code, it often takes schooled experts to chart and navigate the murky depths.

    That makes it somewhat unfair to the commoner who may not have the time or resources to devote to such. It therefore gives some an advantage. There is no good reason to complicate these things other than handicap some and benefit others. It also provides job security for many that otherwise would have no purpose.

  102. Not going to happen in 113, thor. Even if Romney wins the election tonight, time will keep ticking away.Romney will not lead us to the promised land. He will keep us out of Obama’s socialist wonderland,. I’m waiting for Biden-Ryan for my entertainment.

    Alfie, my statement has major cavaet as you wrote. Isolated sections of Rome survived for a generation or so, but they all disappeared. The red states would be little different. Our advantage in hard times is our fuel and energy production. They and other factors would preserve our life modes for awhile longer but as with Rome, the time would be limited.

    Another option if things fell apart and anarchy threatened would be to join our own confederation or Canada. Quebec nearly broke Canada a decade ago when it narrowly defeated a vote for independence. The prairie provinces seriously discussed joining the United States if Canada fell apart

  103. R at 119 is mush of ideas, none of which address the debate. I quit. Poolman answered a question for you, then you argue that I steered the exchange in a different direction. You talk about me limiting my definition of “redistribution” when the term came directly from Obama’s mouth in the audio in question. He was making a point when he referred to “negative liberties” and redistribution and it has nothing to do with what you or Poolman said. The twisting of words and distorting of concepts is coming entirely from you and Poolman. The terms and concepts were set out in the audio we were discussing and the constitutional language itself that you have spent your time avoiding. Your ad hominem attack is just more of your usual cop out when you lack the framework to discuss the issues. But I guess Poolman’s dick will make you do that.

    I see why BiC has totally given up on you. It’s always a wasted effort to argue with someone that uses his own ignorance to challenge a point. Or maybe we just hate the poor. 🙄

    You’re right about one thing: simple concepts and basic definitions do not elude me. They elude you.

  104. James, “Another option if things fell apart and anarchy threatened would be to join our own confederation or Canada?” Damn you’ll do anything to get on socialized medicine, except accept normalcy. Do any of you understand how mental you sound?

  105. re 110… Cuckoo is right. 😆 Always the witch hunt and ignoring the genuine source of our woes. Too bad. Radical Islam is now playing second fiddle in the maniacal orchestral machinations of his mind.

    You know, Poolman. For a self-professed food stamp and loser, you sure do have a big mouth.

    And you, your wife, and your kids are a multi generation of losers.,

  106. You can add up all the welfare and food stamp recipients and not come anywhere close to the revenues lost to those gaming the system. – Poolman

    BRAVO!

    And a lie. I ask Poolman to prove it. Like everything, the loser could not.

    Complete and utter bullshit. And an inbred, genetic defect like you is stupid enough to believe it.

  107. For you slope headed mongoloids called liberals, James made a very valid point, which all of you are too ignorant to understand.

    With 60MM of you, you’re too deficient to understand the situation. That goes too for our literary agent and math flunky, Thor. Your entire life is a lie.

    It won’t matter what happens in the debates. Romney will clean his dickhead’s clock and you’ll be too stupid and stilted to recognize it.

    You’re the same utter fucking morons who blame the debt downgrade on a lack of compromise, never understanding it’s called DEBT for a reason.

    You’re not teachable. You need to be destroyed to save the country. There will be no compromise.

  108. The audio from the last thread that is supposedly O talking doesn’t sound like him, to me. That is where you are getting the discussion of ‘negative liberties’ from, I believe. I asked Tex if he had another source to check out so I could verify whether it was fraudulent or accurate. That request was ignored. I think the youtube video itself was posted a year ago.

    If it is authentic, then we should discuss the meaning O inferred. Otherwise, it’s a mindless waste. A chasing after wind. Though I have enjoyed the wordiness parse. F**k yeah!

  109. For a self-professed food stamp and loser, you sure do have a big mouth.

    Are you attempting insult to my honesty, my social class, or my heredity?

    (It would be nice to know best how to refute your handicapped vision.)

  110. Hey foodstamp? Not only is it authentic, even Bozo doesn’t deny it and still uses the term to this day, dipshit. The station is WBEZ FM – Chicago from 2001. You look it up – you seem to have a passion for that.

    You really are fucked up, aren’t you? Like the neighborhood man all the kids hassle? A fluff of pit hair sticking out the yellow, filthy t-shirt the kids mock.

  111. “If it is authentic, then we should discuss the meaning O inferred.”

    R supposedly defended it. What the hell do you think we’ve been talking about? Don’t answer that. I don’t want to know. Nobody wants to know. Especially R. But there’s a big point and concept there that neither of you have the ability to grasp.

  112. Tigre,

    Poolman vacillates somewhere between his butt cheeks and the clouds. I read Poolman’s remark and realized he doesn’t just have a gap in his cleft, inbred head, but a gap in his reality of time and space. The only one dimensional man I ever read.

    What the hell did the moron think we’ve been talking about the last 50 comments?

    Really, how do you reason with these imbeciles?

    Rutherford is Peter Pan, Poolman a space seed, Thor a flake and professional apologist for failure, and DensiNewt the lowest caste.

    Can we start the war yet? This isn’t going to take too long.

  113. Your nonsense kind of makes me long for the old days when traitors were hung, drawn, and quartered. If I were you Rutherford, I would stop this talk of insurrection right quick.

  114. And a lie. I ask Poolman to prove it. Like everything, the loser could not.

    Are these blanket statements issued with a pacifier? Just curious.

    By nature, these figures are guesses. The IRSestimates losses from income tax fraud and evasion alone to be around 385 billion dollars annually. That’s one component from the loss of revenue side and doesn’t include enforcement or administration expenses.

    Estimates of losses on the expenditure side are over a trillion annually. These guesstimates cover many things including no bid contracts and the notorious i$640 toilet seats, $7,600 coffee makers, $436 hammers and other overpriced spare parts used by the military.

    I think all the welfare programs including food stamps cost us around 700 billion from the fed side and 200 billion from states annually right now, and include administration costs. Of that total, it’s estimated 125 billion is wasted due to fraud and administrative mistakes.

    This welfare portion HAS increased exponentially over the past five years and HAS become huge and unsustainable. I will agree with you there. But many would simply starve or turn to crime if these programs were suddenly stopped. The cheats among them are small potatoes dollar-wise compared to those on the other end of the income spectrum.

    I advocate fixing it by starting at the top with the biggest of fish and then, by re-establishing that righteous example, letting justice trickle on down to the street.

  115. Poolman vacillates somewhere between his butt cheeks and the clouds.

    Some of us are willing to go through all manner of contortion to try to communicate with you half-lifes. My G.A.S. meter teeters from compassion to masochism.

  116. I don’t care how mental I sound newt, because I am right. My comments are based on theorietical reality. I was carrying the mood of several others to a conclusion for my own amusement. We can’t change much, so we might as well have some fun once in a while.

    Besides, . the United States is no more immune to fractures than any other country.

    Before the 1860’s New England had a successinist movement., and we know about the Civil War. After Bush beat Kerry, several national commentators, including Lawrence O’Donnel half seriously advocated that the red states succeed from the union.

    I already cited Canada, but we also have the Czech Republic, Yugoslavia, and now, a province in Spain.

    Joining Canada might not be such a bad deal. Their economy is better than ours.

    If I really wanted to sound mental, I would speculate on the Carrington Effect which is more likely than the partitioning of the United States.

  117. Hey guys, I googled ‘negative liberties’ and it really is a concept that predates Obama. You guys should try the google while we all still can. It might help cure your stupid.

  118. Rutherford, I think you have been very “honest” as to the reasons you have decided to vote for BHO and it seems your main reason is a vote against the Republican party.

    I want the candidate to win that can light a firecracker under Congress and make them earn their salary. I’m not sure either candidate is capable of that but I think Romney has a better chance than Obama just from what we have seen these past two years.

    I am no fan of the Republican party and not especially fond of the democrats either. If Romney gets elected his interests should lead Congress towards economic endeavors. On the other hand that could leave Ryan with too much time on his hands to muddle around with the social mores that he so strongly advocates. Time will only tell.

    I agree with Alfie when he stated ” if we embrace newness via the old ways we’re really just settling to repeat our problems” and James is right when he said Romney will not lead us to the promised land but neither will Obama.

    All this discussion is really for naught. Come November, Congress will return and the same old, same old will begin again. The battle lines are drawn over tax revenues, spending, ACA, SS, Medicare, abortion, same sex marriage and all the other pork we don’t even know about. The MSM and the comedians will dominate our news.

    Welcome to the next four years.

  119. Yeah Tool™, #148 is probably right. Problem is dickhead, it just contradicted your statement about corporations “gaming the system.” It’s government and freeloaders like you that are gaming the system, dumbass.

    That’s exactly what I said. Now you can throw in another $16 trillion wasted on The Great Society and see you weren’t just wrong, you were real wrong, dimwit.

  120. Your nonsense kind of makes me long for the old days when traitors were hung, drawn, and quartered. If I were you Rutherford, I would stop this talk of insurrection right quick.

    Don’t worry, Prissy. We’re not talking insurrection. We’re talking about secession and leaving you with Rutherford to fend for yourselves. That ought to last about 45 minutes. 😆

    You’re not worth the bullet and certainly not worth the price of a good rope. We’ll keep you around to do the laundry.

    Lawzy, we gots to have a doctor. I don’t know nothin’ ’bout birthin’ babies.

  121. #150 And thousands of people die, because you are too selfish and impatient, you can’t wait 4 years for another election?

  122. Whatever else you can say about Barack Obama before he beat John McCain four years ago, his actual presidency has been far, far worse than could have been predicted. Was his boyhood mentor “Frank” a secret communist? Did Bill Ayers write his books? Did young Barry harbor a soft spot for Franz Fanon and smoke dope like a Cheech & Chong extra? Did he get into Columbia despite being an adult illiterate raised in Kenya by Rosicrucians? Let’s play along and say yes to all this and more.

    So freaking what? Compare any and all of that to the grim landscape that Obama has presided over like a dime-store Ozymandias. The guy got just about everything he wanted – expanded auto bailout, mega-stimulus, health-care reform, troop surge in Afghanistan, a free pass to deport immigrants and raid legal-under-state-law pot dispensaries. And it hasn’t worked. The best that the Obama administration can do to defend its objectively awful record – don’t forget the inability to muscle a goddamn budget through the Democratic Senate or deliver a deficit under $1 trillion – is to say that it would have been even worse if McCain had been elected.

    That sort of counterfactual – and the insistence that it’s alway George W. Bush’s fault – is the last resort of a scoundrel. That was the essence of Clint Eastwood’s bizarre but memorable appearance at the Republican National Convention: Obama hasn’t gotten the job done. If anything, he’s made things worse. ~ Nick Gillispie, Reason Magazine

    Damn straight.

  123. Problem is dickhead, it just contradicted your statement about corporations “gaming the system.” It’s government and freeloaders like you that are gaming the system, dumbass.

    Are you multitasking again? Trying to chew nicorette gum AND type at the same time? My statement was not exclusively about corporations “gaming the system”. Besides, corporations are people, my friend. Isn’t that what your leader told you. You sure are one slow learner.

  124. I’ve never witnessed such unfounded arrogance as I have from the Left recently. You must know something I don’t.

    You probably overlooked a comment I made on the prior thread. I’m hearing folks on progressive talk radio say Obama has this in the bag and all I can think is how foolish they’re going to look if Obama gets beat.

    No, my friend, you will not hear any slam dunk prognostications from me, at least not right now. OK I admit the Osama kill had me giddy and the night it happened I was talking slam dunk myself. It was the adrenaline talking.

    I’m braced for anything. In fact, I’m even braced for anything tonight. As far as I’m concerned Romney and Obama have mixed debate records. Either one could have a good or bad night. We shall see.

  125. People,employees must be actually worth what they do and worth everything expended on them.

    For some reason this comment by Alfie reminded me of job training and brought to mind an amusing anecdote from a couple of years ago when I was looking to bring in more income.

    In the very same telephone job interview I was told that they could not afford to train me AND that I was overqualified for the position. ❓

  126. Why all the angst, rightie tighties? Isn’t tonight the night you guys have been waiting nearly four years for? Obama, standing naked and shivering, teleprompter-less, beneath the Socratic titan known as Mitt Romney. I can almost hear the cries of rapture as the job-creating colossus empties his quiver of zingers on the communist Kenyan welfare siren.

    Epic.

    No angst with me. What I want to see is President Hussein balance his post racial President of no blue states or red states with channeling Kanye West “George Bush Hates Black People” Virginia speech that just came to light.

    Has the seas rising slowed yet? Yes We CAn!!!! 😀

  127. Tool™,

    You’re so damn dumb, you don’t even remember what you wrote not 24 hours ago.

    The biggest sinners are ripping us off in million dollar amounts. Corporate entities paying no taxes yet doing business here (GE, Verizon), tax law loophole seekers, off-shore wealth hoarders and other shell game players, all cheating the government out of taxes. Those sheltering profits from disclosure and paying fair tax by MANipulating™ the system.

  128. They are not social institutions designed to provide jobs for people. Their duty is to make as much money as they can, not hold back because it violates some sort of social contract.

    James, this simply isn’t true. It’s a CHOICE that every business makes and increasingly the choice is the one you spell out … which is a knee-jerk amorality about maximizing profit. I’m not suggesting any sensible business would go in the red for the sake of its employees. I AM suggesting there are successful business that go out of their way to treat employees well and that attitude must come out of their bottom line. But the fundamental philosophy of these businesses is that happy workers make good workers.

    I’m pretty sure Ben and Jerry’s is one such business. I’ve heard of others but their names escape me at the moment.

  129. I’m pretty sure Ben and Jerry’s is one such business. I’ve heard of others but their names escape me at the moment.

    😆 Yeah. That’s a great example.

  130. Has the seas rising slowed yet?

    You haven’t heard? The seas HAVE quit rising. Studies were commissioned and the results show rather that it’s the LAND that is sinking. The root cause is still unknown but some early studies indicate there may be a correlation between conservatives simultaneously putting their foot down and/or Congress stomping their feet.

  131. re 161. Tex, Tex, Tex… How DO you function? Corporate entities IS mentioned as ONE source. Tsk, tsk, tsk. A brain is a terrible thing to waste.

  132. Poolman, you don’t even spin your own errors well. It’s mentioned. Period. I’ll let the crowd read, if interested. We all know you’re a brick, though Rutherford will sniff your ass when outnumbered in desperation.

  133. It is true, Rutherford, I learned in economics class and in our farm business. Treating employees well is a business expense which is calculated to produce better returns on investment through happy workers and retention of especially valuable people.

    Amazon, I believe provides restaurants on site. It increases efficiency because employees can spend their noon hours at work. Our son is a data analyst in Silicone Valley, and he gets similar perks.

    Companies like Wal Mart and Target also help their communities through scholarships and community betterment grants.

    My point still stands. Businesses are not social institutions designed to make life better for their communities. Treating employees well and helping their communities builds the bottom line through happy workers and favorable community attitudes all of which help maximize incomes,

  134. You know the best part about you, Tool™? Consider this, from the post:

    GOP audiences cheered at the notion of letting a man without insurance die in the street, and candidate Ron Paul said nothing to condemn the notion.

    Rutherford doesn’t have it quite right – it’s actually worse that he stated. Paul actually mentioned the individual taking responsibility an doing without health care – dying in the street.

    Here’s the deal.

    If Ron Paul stands for nothing else besides Jooo hating, it’s that Americans start taking responsibility for their lives and paying their own way.

    You Tool™ are the consummate freeloader – you’ve apparently used every damn freebie available, from health care, to foodstamps, to public assistance for utilities, to skipping town on the mortgage.

    And somehow, in that butt crack of a brain of yours, you’ve concluded that you’re part of the Ron Paul team. 😈

    Dummy, you’re an anathema to Ron Paul’s entire message, minus the Jooo hatin’. You got that down pat.

    And that fact escapes you because you’re so damn thick. 😆

    What a moonbat.

  135. The seas are more complex than you wrote, Poolman. Land in northern Canada is rising as a springing effect of the melted glacier. Some other places experience the same process through geological forces. Some places such as Pacific Islands are threatened by rising seas.

    I don’t think the oceans were rising as fast as Al Gore told us.

    Thanks Tex. You are an intelligent man.

    I agree about not counting your chickens Rutherford. I sometimes posted on moveon.org during the last presidential election. As Kerry appeared to be winning, writesr gloated about the poor loser Republicans and fantacised about how the conservatives would suffer as liberals rubbed it in.

    The mood changed from concern to disbelief to dispair.

  136. re 169, Corporations that value employees DO often provide perks to keep them. Over the past decades, employees were less loyal than previous periods and would jump ship if given a chance to better their situation. Since our engineered economic collapse, the corporate climate is a little different today and many new hires are not offered the same perks. Corporate policies have been changed over the past few years to maintain profitability and remain competitive in the global market.

    Farmers are producers. There is little chance a non-producer will keep their position on a farm. It is the same in my industry. If you can’t produce, you’re gone and generally pretty quick. There are exceptions. Other businesses merely exploit producers. They can be either positive or negative influences on producers. Sometimes it’s a mix.

    Quality control has also changed over time. Most products today are designed with a specific life. Over the past few years many companies have made it more difficult to receive compensation or repairs via warranty claims.

    My pool equipment manufacturer has decreased warranty length and coverage over the past few years. Before, I could get them to give a little in the exchange in favor of the customer. Not today. Sometimes I have to really get aggressive to get them to honor their warranty.

    I have become disillusioned with much American manufacturing anymore. There have been incredible technological advances, but we’ve given up some integrity along the way. Most things are no longer ‘built to last’.

    If plastic were gold, I’d be wealthy.

  137. If Ron Paul stands for nothing else besides Jooo hating, it’s that Americans start taking responsibility for their lives and paying their own way.

    See? This is what I’m talking about. Ron Paul doesn’t hate Jews. Just because he hasn’t kissed Ben Nitay’s ass like you do, you label him a hater. There really are more than two extremes to most issues, a concept you fail to grasp time and again.

    Responsibility is what I am all about. I am far from perfect, but I don’t hide my sins or cover over mistakes. We, collectively, are killing innocents with drones and calling it good. That is just one of the ways in some of the places we are murdering humanity DAILY in the name of America. I want it stopped. You don’t care – or worse, think they deserve it. That’s totally irresponsible or ignorant or both. And that’s only one aspect.

  138. Wow. Today really makes me aware of how bad of a candidate McCain was. I don’t know if he will win the election or what the talking heads will say about the debate, but Romney is an awesome candidate.

  139. Jim Lehre. Obama looked angry. NBC gives Romney the edge without wanting to and hint that Obama should make some changes.

  140. I told you communist fucking chumps Obama was a stooge. Uhh Uhh….hrpmph hrmph…

    The Allman Brother’s Rambling Man kept playing in my head – I thought Big O was going to stare a hole through the podium when the economy came up – filibuster that NCAA bracket, lightweight.

    Still think Romney unqualified, “R”? He just dismantled The One. I could have watched that for hours. I wished they could have gone on all night – there is so much ammunition to blast this charlatan with, we could have gone on with weeks.

    I have no idea if Barack Obama can still pull the wool. But I have absolutely no doubt the smarter, smoother and more qualified candidate.

    And it ain’t Obama.

  141. I don’t want to pile on Thor much, Muffy. He’s an incredibly effective puppet and apologist for Obama and his multitude of miserable failure, and I want to give him credit for it. That’s a damn difficult task.

    Thor is actually quite good at mimicking fluff and spin.

    Had Romney taken my advice, he would have used Thor for preparation and provided an even more effective beat down.

  142. You know what tickled me the most, gang? Barack Obama has been sheltered by our corrupt media, propagandists, spinmeisters, apologists, thugs, czars, and liberal bloggers by the name of Rutherford for five years now.

    In 2008, Barack Obama never had to answer a hard question. Not one. Tonight, he did – with a horrid and failed record. And it was out there for all the world to see.

    There was no filtering, no protection tonight.

    Standing side by side, it was no match. And I can hardly wait to watch Joe Biden in all his glory next week.

    Line up for ass whippings.

  143. Yup. All the hiding from the media (or the media hiding him) devestated Obama. I’m too young to remember the Reagan debates. I’ve never seen an ass kicking like that on live TV when it comes to political debate. Tex is right. Obama can’t hide. America deserves Obama if they vote for him. Count me as a big time Romney supporter from here out. And the best thing is I can hold my head high even if he loses the election.

  144. And the whole “wooden Romney” thing can be put to rest. The dude is energetic. Charismatic. I would like to have him as my boss. The guy is sharp as a tack.

  145. I have never seen a candidate beg like Obama did, James. 😆 Ever. I couldn’t believe Obama said it. I taped it and listened to it again to make sure I heard it correctly. 😆 I thought Obama’s legs might buckle.

    NO MAS! NO Mas! That was broken jaw time. Down goes Obama! Down Goes Obama!

    That was the sweetest moment – except when Romney corrected Obama about hydrocarbons, reminded Obama his $90 billion could have hired 2,000,000 teachers, they failed, and the benefactors were his campaign bundlers.

    See, I don’t think America knows any of this. It’s the same crap I argue with Thor over. The entire Obama success story is total horseshit.

    I could watch three more of those.

  146. A debate win for Rmoney, eh? I didn’t watch, but you guys are sure energized. Good. It wasn’t expected to go that way from all the media hype. He must have brushed up since the last debates. Of course, I’ve learned most of you aren’t very accurate in your assessments of anything political, except sometimes James. I’ll wait and get the left’s take.

  147. Poolman,

    Nobody gives a shit what you think. Have you not learned that yet, sap?You wouldn’t recognize talent if you had it.

    Go back to your write in vote for the man you’re an anathema to. Ron Paul would hate your guts, freeloader.

  148. Clearly, without doubt Romney won this one. I think the POTUS was advised to stay “presidential” and preserve his likeability rating and as a result, Mitt stole his lunch money and then gave him a wedgie.

    Valium doses need to be prescribed for Ed Schulz and Chris Matthews stat. They were both apoplectic.

    This was rope-a-dope but the problem is Mitt never got weak pummeling and Obama never started punching.

    I haven’t read any of the comments in the thread tonight since the debate started so …. enjoy your gloating. You earned it.

  149. Tex,

    I don’t think Ron Paul hates anyone’s guts. He surely is the one candidate that most represents Christ out of the entire mix. You continue to prove, in written form no less, how even ignorance is allowed a place at the freedom of speech table.

    Now, if we only teach you not to talk with your mouth full. That would be an improvement. 😀

  150. Rutherford confirms a Rmoney debate win. Now I’ll accept it. Schultz and Matthews are Obama shills and I’d expect them to go off all bonkers if O was the night’s loser. How many of these debates are there? Generally these are well-scripted. If O undoubtedly wins the next, I’m gonna call foul. Nothing but entertainment.

  151. Hey Freeloader,

    Ron Paul doesn’t approve of parasites. You quality as 6’0″ cockroach.

    Therefore, Ron Paul doesn’t approve of you. Vote for him anyway.

  152. “Hey guys, I googled ‘negative liberties’ and it really is a concept that predates Obama. You guys should try the google while we all still can. It might help cure your stupid.”

    Holyfuckingshit. You’ve been prattling on to the delight of Rutherford without knowing one damn thing that was being discussed.

    That’s your boy wonder R. I assume you don’t have a clue either. Unbelievable.

  153. Wow. Tingles looks like he needs a defibrillator. I didn’t think it was that big of victory until I saw that. I just thought Obama looked scared — the rest was par for the course.

    I think I’ll have another slice of that apple pie.

  154. I just finished it. Yes, Romney definitely won the debate. Hell, I was ready to vote for him by the end. The guy is Merlin. He is not going to cut rich peoples taxes, he’s just going to extend the tax cuts for rich people. He will not raise middle income taxes, he’s just going to take away the largest deduction for most middle income families. He’s not going to raise medical costs for seniors and he wants to protect people with pre-existing conditions, but, on day one he will repeal Obamacare which will … instantly raise medical costs for seniors and end protection for people with pre-existing conditions. And my favorite, his tax cuts and increase in defense spending won’t add trillions to the deficit because he wouldn’t support any plan that adds to the deficit. He might as well have just said, “I can’t have deficits, I’m running for President for Pete’s sake!” 🙂

    IMO, Obama lost because he sat back and took it. But Romney didn’t really get any signature line in. No “Are you better off now than you were four years ago” moment. O was playing prevent defense. He appears to be playing it safe, relying on his superior ground game.

    The best part of tonight will be when the polls start tightening up and all the Republicans that were telling us for the last two weeks that polls don’t matter suddenly start slobbering over every new poll release. 🙂

    I think me and R have been pretty consistent in saying all along that this thing is going down to the wire. Nothing in tonight’s debate changed that for me.

    The Penn. voter suppression law getting shot down and the Republican voter registration scandal are huge developments to Obama’s advantage. Improving housing market numbers came out today also. If Friday’s job numbers are at all positive, it could still be a pretty good week for Obama, aside from the butt kicking he got tonight.

  155. Tex, sometimes, Romney appeared to be speaking to a business subordinate. A guest on Coast to Coast said Romney has had a career lifetime of speaking and making deals without notes. Obama as a one time college professor and elected official has relied on notes during his career.

    Thor, Obama won’t benefit much from a Penn voter registration decision which is not a voter suppression law. People who are just begining to pay attention are watching the body language and interaction of the two candidates. Romney looked presidential.

    I agree, neither side has yet won the election, but a bad Romney performance might have guaranteed it for Obama.

    People who heard the Nixon-Kennedy debates on the radio said they thought Nixon had won. Those who saw it on television believed the opposite. Nixon had been in the hospital, and he still had a 104 fever. He had a bad makeup job. Kennedy looked tan and fit.His addisons disease made strong emotions difficult for him.

    In this case, Romney won on the radio too.

  156. Geeez. The reaction from the left and media class is panicked. Over the top, IMO. I thought Obama performed as expected. His hands are tied because of his shitty record. This was completely predictable. What gives? It’s as though they’re just noticing the man behind the curtain when the curtain has been open for 4 years and are disillusioned.

    Obama did suck. But I am feeling like the only one that thought it went exactly as expected? Without the protection of the media could anyone think honestly think Romney would come off as inept and Obama such a giant as the chattering left tries to make out?

    This is feeling like “the shock” of 2010 and WI to me.

  157. Four dead American citizens and not a peep.

    I’m not too good at math … mmmm wonder how long it will take Obama to catch up to Bush’s 3000+ dead American citizens? 😉

  158. But I am feeling like the only one that thought it went exactly as expected?

    Yes, yes you are. Your brain has been fried regarding Obama for some time now.

    No mention of 47%.
    No mention of auto bailout and Mitt’s opposition to it.
    Poorly framed pushback on the $5 trillion Mitt tax break.

    The only thing Obama did even half-decently was defend Obamacare. The rest was political malpractice.

    Thor, the one zinger that GOPhers will love from last night although damn, it sounded rehearsed, was something to the effect of “you want to pick the winners and the losers and you keep picking losers.”

    Was it James who said Mitt looked like he was talking to a business subordinate? Yes, I completely agree. This was like watching a manager give an employee a poor performance review. Then he looked at the moderator and basically said “hey, Jim Lehrer, you’re fired too.”

  159. Does Thor sound like that Cutter/Plouffe team, or not? That was beautiful Thor – truly a masterful spin. Housing numbers and the auto industry are up. GM Lives! Actually Ford and GM were in the tank, day before last.

    The spin doesn’t change that it wasn’t just Obama playing defense.

    Obama got his clock cleaned by a much, much more intelligent man, a more polished debater, and a savvy businessman armed with the facts opposed by a community activist and hustler. Obama isn’t terribly bright, and I have known that since before the last election, much less this one. Like Rutherford, you’re neither fair nor particular astute about Obama. You’re blind for whatever reason. You got plenty of company.

    Guys like James, Tigre, Gorilla, Rabbit, and moi, gals like Muffy are not blown away by insipid campaign slogans and meaningless platitudes. We knew Obama was a bullshit artist who preys upon the weak minded, the needy, the race hustlers with help of a complicit media and a gazillion spinners like you. And you’re pretty good at it. I’m impressed that people like you and Rutherford have managed to hide the vacuum so long.

    I think a large part of that is that simple mathematics ain’t your bag and for all intents and purposes, you’re completely secular. You’re either not understanding the ramifications of where Obama’s policies have put us, or so vested and biased you refuse to admit it.

    In 2008, Obama was a beautifully delivered, teleprompted speech in an empty suit. In 2012, Obama is a disaster as President parroting the same baloney. Obama’s rhetoric is stale and his Presidential record is the worst in U.S. history. Libya sealed that – he’s now Jimmy Carter with $6,000,000,000,000 in debt and nothing to show for it but even more misery.

    But you are making unfair accusation. I’ve said all along, I thought these polls were bullshit, most rigged and corrupt, meant to demoralize the Romney supporters, and I told you yesterday, Obama would get his clock cleaned in the debate. He did and then some.

    I just wanted this fraud you play apologist for to have to stand on his own two feet, in front of a silent audience, unable to hide from his record and his propaganda by a clearly complicit and corrupt media. This rigged game has been going on for 50 years at least. And instead of Romney being defined by hacks like Rutherford, and millions of mindless stooges like Poolman and Densi, let Romney stand side by side and debate Obama on a level playing field.

    Mission accomplished.

    I have no idea if the polls will move at all. For all I know, few watched. But I do know that Obama was finally, finally exposed as a hack, a liar, and an empty suit I’ve been attesting to all these years. You damn right I feel vindicated of a sort.

    Do you honestly think Romney is out of bullets? There is so much to talk about. Let Obama bring that 47% up. He will and I want him too. Americans are naive as hell about how much the game rig.

    Like you, I believe this election close. But you’ve misunderstood something else about my real argument. It shouldn’t be.

    And it’s a pathetic commentary on America and a disgrace that it is.

  160. I’m not too good at math … mmmm wonder how long it will take Obama to catch up to Bush’s 3000+ dead American citizens

    About as long as it will take Americans to blame FDR for 3,000 dead Americans at Pearl Harbor.

    Then we’ll talk about a cover up and gross incompetence in the Middle East. We can talk about Iran having a nuclear bomb for Al Qaeda lined up. I just had a tingle up my leg thinking about debating Obama’s successes in the Middle East and our “improved” American respect overseas. “OBAMA! OBAMA! We are all OSAMA now!!!”

    Let’s talk about the 47% and GM. Let’s talk about managed bankruptcy for GM vs. $30 billion dollar loss to the American taxpayer due to the bailout.

    So you think a man who grew up with his dad CEO of an automobile industry doesn’t know a thing about the auto industry, hey? My mouth waters.

    I can’t wait. 😉

  161. “Yes, yes you are. Your brain has been fried regarding Obama for some time now.”

    Maybe you can direct me to the ward where you’re staying then. You have been lobotomized by MSNBC since I first appeared here.

    Glad your mythic leader let you down. Since he’s always sucked at debates and has relied on the media to protect him since. . . well forever, I’ll chalk this one up to your usual clairvoyance. Why 2010 seems like just yesterday. . . 😆

    Any other predictions Swami? I see the media, your beloved MSNBC in particular, working diligently at damage control. I also see your tone becoming even nastier.

    Next, Biden the genius.

  162. Tex, you should write a column.

    I was the one, Rutherford. “Jim, you’re fired” was funny. I guess Romney did act that way ,.

    If I had been Romney, I would have mentioned the 47% before Obama could and explained what it meant.

    I was also hoping Romney would discuss the auto industry and how bankruptcy with aid would have accomplished more than a government seizure did. It would have been accomplished without stiffing the non -union retirement fund holders and creditors.

    The four dead US men and the nearly 300 dead Mexicans will surely appear in another debate. Those people died because the Obama administration was inept and failed to heed the warnings. also Obama and his staff lied as blatently to the world as Clinton did. Obama will have to rehearse longer than he has so far to twist his way out of that trap.

    Romney was on a roll, and as in a high school debate, or street fight, you overwhelm your opponent. That’s why I wish Romney had attacked those issues before Obama could,

  163. I will give you this though Rutherford. Nothing Romney said last night caused a single Obama supporter to change their vote. (That’d be the “offended” 47%, the dolts that think GM a success).

    I saw pee running down that Tingly Leg.

  164. I agree to a degree, Ragi, but since I am politically moderate, it plays to my bias.

    The fact checking footnotes seen truthful, but some are deceptive half-truths.

  165. UPDATE:

    Bigger Winners from Debate: Bibi Netanyahu, Chris Christie.
    Big Losers: Innocent citizens of Libya. Watch out below!

    And stay away from the baby milk plants. 😆

  166. See what they’ve resorted to, TIgre? When truth wins out, it gets vile of the worst sort.

    Now it’s using 3,000 dead Americans as political fodder. Many of these libs will sink to any depths to win – and I do mean any depths. We’re back to Bush now.

    I wasn’t teasing when I said many of these despicable folk were actively rooting for American military deaths in Iraq to score points. It’s exactly what I disdain them. Doubt for a minute that Rutherford wasn’t one of them?

    I guarantee you if this doesn’t turn for them soon, they’ll be rooting for another national catastrophe, anything to gain Obama sympathy – just not in their hometown.

  167. I don’t see the points last night were either moderate or conservative. I read Goldberg’s piece and didn’t agree.

    I would say if anything, Romney’s points were Libertarian. Smaller gov’t. For the right and right of center, these are universal economic wants that unlike social issues, don’t break left or right.

    Last night was pretty much straight out of the Reagan playbook – the only ‘A’ Grade President in my lifetime.

    And why Republicans got away from that model back in ’88, I haven’t a clue. We need a new Reagan.

  168. Tex, I know. It’s pathetic. I was one conservative among about 25-20 black liberal buddies watching last night. They didn’t see the bloodbath Rutherford did through the MSNBC filter, but they were discouraged. This morning I know they’ll see Tingles clutching his chest and Carville saying a chainsaw ripped through Obama and start the usual delusion born of desperation — never seeing that the facts are the problem.

    3,000 dead Americans? Here we go again. Maybe it will segue into a discussion of the lying bastard’s protection of our ambassadors and giant Afghanistan success. 🙄 .

  169. Were you all so dazzled by Romney’s ‘Jennifer Granholm’ performance that you failed to notice, Romney was the liberal Democrat on stage last night?

  170. Tigre,

    The “progressives” always believe their own garbage and a major component of the garbage is that Left and highly intelligent are synonyms. It’s the biggest lie of all.

    It is inconceivable to an Obama wonk that a Republican troglodyte can bitch-slap the smartest President we’ve ever had.

    Rest assured, Rutherford, Thor, and a million propagandists are working overtime this minute to turn lemons into lemonade. The sad fact is, maybe one in three voters were even watching the debate and by the end of the day, the theme will be Obama more than held his own – even looked Presidential.

    You watch.

  171. Tigre,

    But Carter actually was a good student. For instance, we know that Carter graduated in the top 5% of his Naval class. An ineffective President and limp noodle, no doubt. A disaster as President, which Obama has now succeeded in moving Carter to #2 on the worst dressed list. It remains to be seen if Obama can move Carter to #2 on most feckless former President list.

    I believe Barack Obama is media created sham. The black Bill Clinton? That’s a sick joke. I find Obama neither intelligent or worldly. He’s a loud mouth, jive talking court junkie, with a gift of cliche, married to an equally inane, narcissistic and entitled angry black woman.

    I thought Barack Obama was a scam from the start. Bet you money if Obama is to lose this election, the media will brutalize Obama and throw him under the bus, like Obama threw his own grandmother.

    That Hispanic shill the Dims trotted out from San Antonio at the Convention? The mayor? A brown cardboard replica of The Won.

  172. These Libs? The ones that keep telling us where on the way back?

    Orders placed with U.S. factories fell in August by the most in more than three years, signaling that slowdowns in business investment and exports restrained the economic expansion.

    The 5.2 percent decrease in bookings was the biggest since January 2009 and followed a revised 2.6 percent increase in July, the Commerce Department said today in Washington. The median forecast of economists in a Bloomberg News survey called for a decline of 5.9 percent. Demand for durable goods dropped 13.2 percent, the same as reported last week, while shipments of non-durables, which includes such things as petroleum and chemicals and often reflect swings in price, climbed 2.2 percent.

    They’re lying. Things are getting worse. Much worse.

  173. That’s right, Tex, I don’t like the cadence

    ROTFLMAO … Obama gets slammed by Tex and James for “talking black”. It’s just too funny.

    It actually might have done BO some good to look at Romney last night and say “Yo mama”. 🙂

  174. I think a large part of it is the problem with Journalism now caters to the Left; mainly, because it doesn’t require math or technical skills.

    It’s comments like this that make me long for an Obama win. Just to shove it up your arrogant ass. 👿

  175. Paul Ryan has been in Congress since Elvis died

    Tex, I’d give Juanita the benefit of the doubt and assume she was deliberately exaggerating simply to say Ryan is no newbie. So, perhaps you’re the nitwit for taking her literally? 😉

  176. Newt, Tex’s misreading of Juanita’s satire is just another example of his desperate need to denigrate anything liberal. It isn’t that he’s stupid or immune to sarcasm … he just believes what he wants to believe. That is why he insists you are Sensico and there’s no talking him out of it.

    Most men confine their belief in the irrational to religion. That boundary broke down for old Tex ages ago. I’m beginning to think he’d be right at home with Rabbit’s FIL.

  177. and her miserable life carrying around her oxygen bottle because she’s so damn fat

    When do we start making fun of your heart meds? Why exactly is there no low you won’t stoop to when it comes to liberals? The hate is unbecoming.

  178. when the government forces you to give it money (called a tax) so that it can do “stuff” for lots of other people, that is a form of redistribution

    You’re as predictable as a gas attack after a pepperoni pizza Tex. I knew someone, most likely you, would pick up on “other people”.

    It was poorly worded. The “stuff” is done for lots of people, often but not always including the person who was taxed.

  179. My question to you is, “do you personally do anything charitable of any significance?”

    You are right to separate money and time. I used to make token gifts to medical charities (Cancer Society, Heart Assoc, etc.) but now times are so tight you need a jackhammer to get me to open my wallet. I still give about $100.00 to Harvard each year in the dim hope that when my daughter applies one day, they’ll look at my “gift history” and it’ll be a small check in her plus column. I don’t delude myself into thinking this is like having a wing named after me. I just hope it is a little something.

    When it comes to time, I am very simply at the age of 51, a lazy misanthrope. I allowed working at home, followed by layoff, followed by more working at home to make me somewhat reclusive. I actually debated back and forth with myself for two weeks to go see Michael Steele.

    So, I’d love to be able to tell you I work at a food shelter four hours a week, or I tutor poor black kids on the south side of Chicago. But it would be a lie. Hell, Harvard just reached out to me to interview local college applicants and my immediate response was “no way.” (By the way, about 25 years ago, one spring, I did do alumni interviews. In the end I didn’t much like being part of a kid’s most likely disappointment.)

    With that said, I don’t begrudge the poor their welfare check. By my actions, I am a poor ambassador for my cause, but I am a believer nonetheless.

  180. Rutherford,

    For you to lecture me about morality is analogous to you having a group discussion with Newton and Poolman concerning higher reasoning (and math 😛 ).

    Wasn’t two hours ago, you were gloating about 3,000 citizens killed for political fodder. I guess my response should have been “this ain’t George Bush.” But it was so transparent and distasteful, it needed a firmer slap across your massive head.

    In 90 minutes last night, not only was your hero blasted from the stage as fraud and failure, you were exposed as a lying, slandering, little weasel too. That “weak” candidate just schooled the man you once enraptured with, still not recognizing how inane your previous comments look this morning concerning Romney. “Told you so…”

    Yes, I do indeed once again find it humorous that while Obama exposed, so were you.

    Many of us here recognize you’re a man without honor or purpose, but one. Prog politic – it consumes you. That your honestly dishonest, that your a rank propagandist and irreligious bigot – it goes with the territory you live.

    When do we start making fun of your heart meds? Why exactly is there no low you won’t stoop to when it comes to liberals?

    That hatemongering old bitch? And that goes for that Fat Grannies Crowd too. If they can’t take the personals, Wattle and lard ass shouldn’t dish them out. Nasty as they come. Go look for yourself and listen. Tit for tat.

    Surely you don’t think that I don’t know if I just happened to yell, “Elizabeth honey, I’m having the Big One!” and croaked, that you wouldn’t secretly celebrate after mouthing some meaningless platitude about my “soft side” on the blog? Double karma if it’s before the election! 😈 Oh please, Rutherford.

    Sport, you hate my guts. Palpable. And I don’t care. Damn, I’ve raked your duplicity across the Lawson driveway so many times, if you don’t, they ought to nominate you for sainthood and admit you.

  181. If we embrace newness via the old ways we’re really just settling to repeat our problems.

    I think there’s wisdom in this statement even though it obviously needs elaboration.

    There seems to be this meme that business is a wise problem solver while government is not. In my experience, business has embraced some ideas that could rival any governmental clusterf*ck.

    For example, the insistence of business to apply the manufacturing metric of six sigma to non-manufacturing applications and business models. This became religion back in the day, with loads of dollars and hours wasted indoctrinating training employees on the asinine concept. I’m pretty sure the six-sigma adherents are still around.

    In business, we get the not-invented-here syndrome. We also get the fear of reprisal if we reject the dumb idea of some executive who has been lead to believe he has no dumb ideas.

    No, sadly, humans are flawed and whether they are at the steering wheel of business OR government, they have a 50% chance of steering the car into a ditch. 😐

  182. Tex, I know it matters not, but I don’t hate you and I certainly don’t want you dead. I think partly through no fault of your own you are an odd mixture of compassionate good Samaritan and nasty angry bitter a$$hole. You find it sad that I will die “unsaved” and I find it sad that you will die holding so much anger for so many people. But then hell, I’m angry too. Reflecting on what I wrote to Tigre above, I should probably get out more. Would make me a nicer person. I used to be pretty nice. Not as much lately. 😦

  183. I literally shudder to think this moron was 537 votes and a butterfly ballot the most intellectual people in the world couldn’t figure out from being POTUS. Is this the people you want running the country, Rutherford?

  184. I think partly through no fault of your own you are an odd mixture of compassionate good Samaritan and nasty angry bitter a$$hole.

    I think that is a pretty good summary, minus the fault and the bitter.

    I am an asshole and I am a Good Samaritan. But the fault is my own, and the only thing I’m bitter about is I have to share a country with people that would vote for a grossly incompetent buffoon and cover for his excess and his failures with their innuendo, lies and filthy propaganda.

    I loathe a phony – the fact this one is a megalomaniac to boot is a force multiplier.

    Of that and its consequences, you’re damn right I’m bitter.

    I told you that the way George Bush was treated not as a President but as a person hardened me. I’m not apologizing for the return volley in the least.

    I intend to pay back every one of you SOBs who did so, even if it puts me in the grave.

  185. Tex, you are on quite a roll. I think I should just let you go. But when the dust settles and the Dems stop commiserating, I hope they can get back on point.

    On the campaign trail, Romney has said over and over he wants a 20% tax cut across the board. Last night he said he wouldn’t cut rich people’s taxes.

    On the campaign trail, Romney blasted Obama over spending money on teachers, saying it meant he didn’t understand what happened in Wisconsin. Last night, Romney said he loves teachers.

    Romney said he doesn’t know anything about a tax break for off-shoring jobs, even though Republicans worked very hard to kill a bill in July that would close the loophole.

    Obama chose not to engage last night. Why, we may never know. Doesn’t change the fact that the etcha was in full morph mode. Hopefully he will be called out on it in the days to come.

  186. IowaHawk is the funniest, one of the most clever men on the entire net.

    David Burge ‏@iowahawkblog

    This is the first time in history I’ve read complaints that a debate moderator needed to be MORE intrusive.

    😆

    Tigre, IH actually does his best work when he’s being serious. That take down of public education in Wisconsin was so fabulous, I used it to zing my local paper about their whoppers.

    And boy, did it piss them off to be exposed…they actually not only published, but the editor called me personally to leave him alone. 😆

    True story.

  187. re 236, I thought this blog was your charitable contribution. No? Well, it seems to have been good for the misfits. 😛

  188. #232 Humorists always exaggerate, it is all about the laugh. I think Ryan has served in the House for 14 years? So JJ is stating the obvious, he has been around for awhile.
    Rutherford more to the point, Tex slams the body types and medical conditions of liberal women. I haven’t known him to do that with men, it speaks to his insecurities. I’ve known very obese men ignore their own pounds and then rattle on about some woman’s hips. No man in good shape past a certain age does that, they know staying shape takes work. They admire other men and women who make the effort to be fit, but do not slam others, who have yet to commit. 2 hours a day/6 days a week of exercise would sweeten Tex’s personality, as well as lower his cholesterol. Maybe, he would even learn to appreciate emancipated women, who speak their minds.

  189. Thor, you can spin this all you like. And I’m sure you will. All you “fact checkers” are in high RPM today. And you’ll come up with an assortment of excuses, lies, and marketing ploys. But it won’t change any minds.

    You and Mr. Rutherford have spent the better part of four months now assuring the world “Mittens” a WEAK candidate and cardboard cut out.

    And what you saw last night was the WEAK candidate and troglodyte absolutely school the “smartest” President ever. That was the most one sided debate I’ve ever witnessed. I watched it twice to make sure – it was worse the second time.

    Obama can engage all he wants. And I expect Obama to get his ass kicked while engaged every bit as bad as he had it kicked last night.

    Four years of utter lies and massive failures will do that to you.

    So get out your drill. But you better get a better bit.

  190. After seeing a few of Poolman’s Abby Martin videos, I’ve finally caught on to her shtick. She starts each vid sitting down and then at the end starts walking around the studio as the camera follows her. Interesting stylistic choice.

    I haven’t figured out her politics yet …. I guess she’s an independent.

  191. “I haven’t known him to do that with men. . .”

    😆 😆 😆

    My ass. He’s an equal opportunity offender. I can attest to that.

    Now go vote like your lady parts depend on it. Nothing says “pro-woman” like treating female voters as hysterical brain-damaged walking uteri. -IH

  192. re 242, funny Newt. We probably have more tacos per capita than the rest of the country does. Every day in Arizona is taco day! 😀

  193. Newton Dear.

    You cut me to the quick (hrmph hrmph) – but you’re wrong.

    I’m an equal opportunist and no gender discriminator of Leftists. Have you missed my copious descriptions of Mr. Numbnuts, aka Tool™, aka Poolman right here on this very blog?

    It’s a real shame I don’t trust you as far as I could throw your immense and ample ass.

    I would post a picture of three of the most gorgeous, brickhouse women walking the entire planet. One of them will be pushing 60 soon and she’s still looks better than most 30 year olds, plays tennis every day with just a touch of gray. And guess who they surround?

    So politics aside sweetie, I’m bulletproof of mortal man.

    Lucky? You betcha. Better to be lucky than good.

  194. This would be funny if it wasn’t so tragic:

    From the Obama campaign:

    I hope I made you proud out there explaining the vision we share for this country.

    Followed by a donation link. Note should have said, “sorry I messed this one up, I’ll do better next time.” 😐

  195. For God’s sake Tex, quit deflecting your own self loathing and fix what is wrong with yourself.

    😆 😆 😆

    Is it possible to be both arrogant and self-loathing? I may have to perform a self diagnosis sooner than expected. Newtonian Freud has me pegged.

    I go from arrogant, to self loathing, back to arrogant, back to self loathing like a see saw on this blog, many times within minutes and sometimes within consecutive posts on a thread. Like Romney. 😀

    I wish you libs would get together and set a narrative. It would simplify things.

  196. Newt,

    Tex would likely be more pleasant if he’d cut the diet coke and vacillating between periods of cigarette smoking and nicotine patch dependence. There’s also the (lack of) acceptance/respect from dad always lurking. Parents have in many cases let us down due to their own insecurities.

    That may help explain why he often resembles a bully – one without a playground. Much is due to anonymity of the web. I don’t think we’d experience the same level of sardonic discourse in person.

    Just my 2 cents. I’m sure there are others more qualified to make the psychological assessments.

  197. Hey “R”. I got a question. A real question. I know our relationship somewhat, shall we say, strained? But there’s no wrong answer.

    So just an opinion. Restore my faith in you.

    Are you the least bit embarrassed by this groveling and pandering for campaign donations by the Obama Committees?

    The wedding gifts, the raffles, the insincere falsities and thank you?

    Does it ever give you pause about the party you belong to?

  198. Tool™,

    Your psycho analysis aside, and you’re going to have to trust me on this one.

    This bullying you speak?

    It would be worse if you were in my presence and are as insipid and inane as you pose yourself on this board.

    With your propensity to push it, it likely wouldn’t be accompanied by an exchange words. More likely, you might find it accompanied by a right cross, where I would attempt to drive your rotted, buck teeth into your medulla. Or if you’re a biggin, I have what I like to call an equalizer to cut you down to size.

    I think what I’m referring to is what you pseudo psycho analytical types refer to as a “hair trigger temper” – with a ginormous degree of impatience concerning those I really, really don’t like.

    Cost me a six figure job once, but the look on their face is still priceless in my memory. 😉

  199. Tex of course the emails embarrass me. I do consider it a sign of the times. I don’t subscribe to GOP mailing lists but I have no doubt they do their share of direct e-mail fundraising.

    If you want a real SPECIFIC answer …. after Obama won the election David Plouffe made a decision for which I shall never forgive him. He ceded control of Obama for America to the DNC. I could not think of a more grave tactical error. This (OFA) had the potential to keep grass roots Obama supporters involved in government. Surveys could have been sent out asking for opinions on policy direction, etc, etc. Instead OFA became owned by the DNC and became nothing but a fundraising endeavor. As a result from 2009 to about late 2011 former OFA supporters didn’t hear squat from them. Only when it came time to ask for money did OFA resurface.

    It is one of the several ways that the promise of the Obama election was stifled.

  200. FWIW I held true and did not watch the debates. I am, in the aftermath, bolstered in my belief that the wake of the candidates actions and words as well as the inevitable spin will have more sway than if one was undecided and watching the full 90 minute show.

  201. @ Rutherford regards some of your pondering on my previous employment/economy comments. Keep digging man you’re on the right track.
    America needs an epiphany,a paradigm shift of epic proportions. The right one may not come or even start secondary to a Romney win but it sure as hell can’t come with an Obama one.
    There is a weird political view developing in me that is quite surprising in many ways and sure to distance me from previous allies and ideas. No matter the outcome, this election cycle has had a profound effect on me.

  202. Regarding 259, there was a time Tex when I not so privately rejoiced in your corporate defiance. I thought your “take this job and shove it” approach gave us a bit of a kinship. But now, five years after losing my six figure job, I don’t find it so amusing anymore.

    I don’t know your finances but I can only guess your foolhardy move was made with the backdrop of financial security … a cushion. In fact, you were so cush you could afford to throw a ton of money down a rat hole of a partial med school education that you probably privately knew would never yield any fruit. And now you sit fat (or lean, whatever), dumb and happy while a combination of your investments and your wife’s salary pays the bills. You’ve essentially retired and you’re loving it. Maybe I should be happy for you?

    I, in contrast, followed up my job loss by losing my home (I sold it but damn it FELT like losing it) and taking on enough stress to negatively impact my health. My finances resemble that of the Nation. My business so close to non-existent that my wife is the sole bread winner … something I thought my male pride would NEVER let me allow. And top of it all, I get to listen now to your corporate shill defense of big business.

    So yeah, I guess I don’t find your “take this job and shove it” thing so amusing anymore. It’s a salary you didn’t have to lose that I and others like me would gladly have. Call it sour grapes if you like, but there it is.

  203. I think what I’m referring to is what you pseudo psycho analytical types refer to as a “hair trigger temper” – with a ginormous degree of impatience concerning those I really, really don’t like.

    No kidding! 🙄 I guess you aren’t familiar with Proverbs 14:29, 15:18, 16:32, or 19:11. Too bad, but understandable. I once lacked self control.

  204. Your nonsense kind of makes me long for the old days when traitors were hung, drawn, and quartered. If I were you Rutherford, I would stop this talk of insurrection right quick.

    Newt, pardon me if I have a small laugh at your expense. That comment reminded me of Zell Miller:

    Don’t worry, any discerning FBI agents will know I’m not the instigator of this idiot rodeo. 🙂

  205. I once lacked self control.

    🙄

    At least I’m truthful about my shortcomings, too numerous to mention. No argument about Proverbs.

    Now that you’ve gained self control, perhaps you could work on gaining some skills to pay the bills and reread the 8th Commandment until the meaning sinks in.

    Ron Paul awaits. 😆

  206. Not sour grapes – further along in raising kids. I knew that we had enough to probably make it to the end. I had thought it through. In this environment, there are no guarantees.

    I wasn’t kidding you when I have told you that you’re wasting your time pursuing what you are pursuing, unless it is something you love. Your talents lie elsewhere. That much is obvious from here.

    If you would like me to take the foot off the pedal and quit revving your engine all the time, I would be happy to provide some suggestion and we could go back to being friends again – after the election.

    You read if you think my act completely impulsive. It wasn’t – though the opportunity wasn’t planned. Like Poolman’s rotted, buck teeth, I had enough when the time came.

    We’re not rich. At least my definition of rich. I doubt my wife was entirely happy with me blowing my stack. She’s twisted my ear so many times about my mouth and my temper, I think she resigned herself to loving me the way I am. 🙂

    Believe me, she wouldn’t put up with it. Why do you think I quit work? Family, or career?

    We simply lived a simple life style. We didn’t buy a house that took one income, or a Mercedes and BMW. We lived on my income for 15 years. We live in a cheaper part of the country. We put 10% of our paycheck in savings. We started with nothing much other than two mortgaged homes. There’s nothing magic about my situation vs. yours. My wife is older than yours, therefore further along. You’ve still got time to catch up.

    Plus with the kids and not relocating, it would have been practically impossible to raise my children alone and have worked full-time. Neither one even drove at that moment, though I had no idea my wife was going to be relocated.

    If it makes you feel better, I have run through approximately $300,000 cash to get to this point of sitting on my ass for nine years, paying for college, and household expenses.

    Yep, it cost that much just to live. And yes. I need a purpose too.

  207. Treating employees well and helping their communities builds the bottom line through happy workers and favorable community attitudes all of which help maximize incomes,

    James I would never argue with that. But in each case, those companies that adopt that policy CHOOSE to do so. They could just as easily funnel those expenses into higher executive salaries and private jets.

  208. On another note, Tex how is your father? A longtime friend of mine lost her 88 year old mother to West Nile Disease last week. Nasty disease!

  209. re 263

    Rutherford, it is a matter of priorities. Plenty make tremendous compromises to keep getting that salary they’ve become so attached to. I have seen it time and again.

    I have walked away from money with strings attached plenty of times. Sometimes it’s a potential client that wanted me to compromise something I was not willing to. Other times an employer. I could not work in many corporate environments. Because of my no compromise stand I have always faced risk and uncertainty. It definitely makes life exciting. And, it helps keep me sharp.

    I told my wife long ago and many times since that I am glad she wasn’t expecting a comfortable and posh lifestyle. I know now as a Christian we are not supposed to seek comfortable lives here, though we all as humans tend toward that.

    It was good for my kids growing up. They may not have had the latest, greatest of things, but they had a stay-at-home mom, one who devoted much time and affection toward them. My two daughters are very solid individuals today for it. They have a greater advantage over plenty of their peers who were brought up often as latch-key kids.

    I think relationships are the most important things we have while on this earth. Those take an investment in time, the one common currency we all share. No salary can substitute for that, though often we deceive ourselves in believing otherwise.

  210. Funny having Tex call my teeth bad. I have perfect teeth, quite unusual and impressive for my 55 years. Never had dental problems, though I did have the wisdom teeth removed on the right side some 12-14 years ago. I will need to have my wisdom teeth on the left side pulled eventually. My mouth may be big, but not big enough to contain them all comfortably. 😀

    My wife, on the other hand, has bad teeth. She had 3 baby teeth that had no permanent teeth behind them. It was a genetic thing prevalent in BOTH of her parents. Pretty weird, but not too uncommon. Most of hers today are man-made.

  211. Rutherford, each business makes its own decisions. Some companies must pay CEOs high salaries to cope with the scarcity of capable executives. Other industries don’t need to buy such expensive CEOs but they do anyway. As long as the company can afford it, chief employees make out well.

    It is the same as farming.One can care for the land and make it better than when he started. Or, a farmer can “mine” it for its fertility and short-term yield, For example, after the 1973 Russian wheat deal sent prices to record levels, ranchers on the fringe of the Nebraska Sand Hills plowed up virgin prairie, installed center pivots, and dropped seeds into the ground. Yields were phenominal, even without fertilzer. After a few years, prices fell and yields left like disloyal employees.

    Being good to employees and sharing the wealth is a form of insurance.

  212. re 266… The 8th commandment – check. Even as it applies in Malachi 3:8. How about you work on the 9th commandment?

  213. Ha Ha Rutherford! I wondered if someone would catch that.

    By theoretical reality, I referred to events which can happen if the conditions are right. Red states joining Canada is as possible as when the Prairie Provinces contemplated joining the US. Granted, the odds today are slim, but such events do not violate any natural laws. At one time, the breakup of the Soviet Union was a theoretical reality, for example.

    It is impossible for you and I to wake up one morning as each other. It is not a theoretical reality in our world.

    Brick house is a common term around here, though there is a missing word. It evolved from built like an outhouse.

  214. Ok so now after the usual battery of “1 or 2, 3 or 4” tests (God what a mindf*ck) I’m now spending 15 to 20 mins in the “dilation room”.

    Once my eyes finish dilating ill have to get off the blog for awhile. I can’t read for crap with my eyes dilated.

    Damn I hate this.

  215. My father is home and very weakened. He most likely will never be the same, but he is able to stand on his own and has some mobility with a walker. Thanks for asking.

    An elderly neighbor behind us died two weeks ago from WNV.

    I would recommend everyone still young get bit while your immune system not compromised. Because you can’t wear DEET forever. Pfesser will probably croak if he reads my recommendation. But until they have a vaccination, that’s what I’m planning to do while healthy.

    If you’re taking anything that might compromise the immune system, your a sitting duck for the neuro invasive form. And if you’re in a state with prevalent WNV, you would be wise to not go out dusk to dawn.

  216. Rutherford, you get to experience doctors from the examinee side of things. I haven’t had much experience there, praise the Lord! I always experience them as a pool client or by way of them caring for someone else. I have often thought it would be fun to make an appointment for a pool presentation and keep them waiting for the usual hour. The one time I mentioned that as a joke I didn’t get the response I was hoping for. It is funny how we are accustomed to waiting and it’s almost a surprise when there isn’t one. The simple joys! 😀 My times waiting with others at hospitals or in doctors’ clinics have sometimes been an interesting time to people watch. Some folks don’t wait very well.

    I dislike hospitals and I think the atmosphere in most would depress the happiest of folks. Shouldn’t we be making these places refreshing? I know a few practitioners that have in smaller facilities. I know some hospitals do make the connection. I actually installed a water feature at a Mayo clinic.

  217. How about I break the 6th starting with you and call it even, Bucktooth?

    Even? What constitutes even to you? Even if you think it? A wise man once said there is no difference. I believe Him.

  218. So, anyone want to wager on how long until Obama wags the dog with a strike in Libya to avenge the Stephens’ murder he didn’t prevent . . . er. . . understandable outrage from the Youtube video all those computer savvy Muslims viewed?

    My guess: next few days or shortly after the next debate.

  219. So, anyone want to wager on how long until Obama wags the dog with a strike in Libya to avenge the Stephens’ murder he didn’t prevent

    Never bet against a sure thing.

    Pick any random gathering, and shoot a couple of Harpoons into the crowd claiming victory.

    Then fly the drones home and claimed Obama pulled the troops out safely. 😆

    If I was a Libyan, I’d be walking lightly for the next few weeks.

  220. The Libyan strike should happen soon. The way I heard it, Stevens was set up to feign justification for an invasion. The locals were starting to act too independent, so we sent in Al Qaeda to stir things up. And it made O look bad. Nothing is by chance.

  221. “Because you can’t wear DEET forever.”

    TIP: I never leave the house without a sheet of Bounce. Rub down exposed parts of the body and tie a piece in your clothing. My dogs get their heads and back rubbed also. Bounce wards off gnats, ticks, wasps, mosquitos. You can also use it in closets and chests instead of moth balls which are lethal.

    It’s good news that your father is able to be home but how devastating to be so weakened. The CDC did report that WNV reached epidemic portions this year.

  222. I tried that as an experiment, Raji when I went night fishing last week. I put it on one arm, then tied it to my sleeve and not the other and it did apparently work. But it wasn’t fool proof. I still had a couple of no se um’s.

  223. The great James Taranto . . . long ago posited what is called the “Taranto Principle.” In short, it means that the liberal media so coddles liberal politicians that they have no idea how to cope outside that liberal media bubble. . . .

    Barack Obama has been so totally coddled by the liberal media that he looked absolutely shell-shocked in this debate. Stunned, unhappy, angry, sour–and at some points genuinely incoherent.

    Romney has had nowhere near that kind of treatment. He had serious opponents in the primaries–all of whom in their own way forced him to confront his ideas in a serious fashion. Conservatives were on his heels. The Obama media never let up. The man went through the political equivalent of boot camp.

    Tonight, the Taranto Principle kicked in. Big time.

    Outside the liberal bubble–forced to be alone on a stage with a very serious, very prepared candidate–Barack Obama was in trouble. Big Trouble.

    And he has no one but himself — and his media coddlers — to blame. ~ Jeffrey Lord, American Spectator

  224. Going to step up and apologize for going there R. No excuse for it no matter how much you exasperate me. Probably still wont hang out much as any kind of meaningful debate is predicated on some level of honesty/objectivity. Not sure how much you truly ever had in the past, but what is clear is you have none now.

    The debates showed us two things. First is that Romney is Presidential. He can hold his own and he can fight. He showed in his roll as governor that he is able to work with his opposing party. He has showed us that not only does he have ideas but that he is not so closed minded as to think his is the only way. He tells us enough to show us he has a plan but hasn’t filled in all the details as to leave room to negotiate a compromise that both sides can live with.

    Second is that this is the affirmative action President. Not to say that Obama supports affirmative action, but rather that through affirmative action he was elected. We didn’t get the best man for the job, rather it was the black man’s turn. As with affirmative action in the working world, we saw the consequences of electing a man that was not fully vetted to see if he was actually qualified to hold the position. While his job performance these past 4 years left little doubt as to his ability to those looking objectively, the debate put to rest the question as to what our President was actually capable of. He is not a leader, he is not a fighter, he is not a man who works well with others, he is not a team player. He is in this for his own personal glorification. He is not here to serve us, but rather to serve himself and his interests.

    Watching the debate I got the feeling we might be looking at another Ronald Regan. I cannot say for certain, but I have this feeling that the potential is there.

    Still looking for other active political blogs. I am not much for the network blogs(ABC, CNN, Huffpost…ect) but more along the lines of the wordpress format. If anyone knows of any, don’t really care what political bent they are, I would appreciate the recommendation.

  225. Noah, you ever check out BiC’s site? He’s got a lot of links on his blog roll to some pretty prolific political bloggers. His is great, it’s just that he doesn’t have the time to tend to it as much as he’d like.

    I agree with waht you said. Not quite there with a Raegan expectation.

  226. When Noah self-deported he returned to M&H. He got called out by their posters and his comments to Rutherford were revealed verbatim.

  227. Raji
    Did you have a point or were you just being a jerk for the sake of being a jerk?

    The event you speak of happened days ago. Word has it this is the internet. You may not realize but you do not have the ability nor does anyone else here, to effect my paycheck. This means you do not matter in any measurable way. What possible impact do you think that anyone at fat grannies, or you for that matter, would have on me? I understand pettiness is a way of life for you but try and keep it in check. What I find comical is that you and your kind go so far out of your way to track me down and put forth so much effort to try piss me off. Until you are actually able to defend what you believe in I consider you nothing more than another Newt or Rutherford. You make noise, but so does my ass after a taco dinner.

    Tigre
    I checked out BiC’s site a couple of times didn’t see any movement on the post topics. I did get 2 good book suggestions one of which I am reading now.

    As to the Regan comparison, I am just speaking to the general feeling I got watching him speak in the debate. I felt the same kind of sincerity and conviction in his beliefs as I did with Regan.

  228. I like Ragi. My interpretation of her comment was that it was critical of Helen and Margaret who outed him and neutral toward noah. Ragi is more understated than Newt and Rutherford, not that there is anything wrong with how those two write..

    We know what the grannies are capable of. That they would find a post on another blog and throw it back to someone is well within the boundries of “theoretical reality.” Don’t write it if you don’t want the world to see it.

    Noah, you owe Ragi an apology. You have a legitimate reason to be angry, but I think it is misplaced.

    I’d like to see you here. I already mentioned stewbies retreat. I liked the group, but their computer won’t let me back.They are nice people. I don’t know of any others except this one,

    Newt was big enough to aplogize to me. Do the right thing.

  229. Raji
    I apologize. Not that it is an excuse but baby has been waking us up at 2am and staying up till 5 and I am out the door at 7am. Having re read it I am not sure exactly how I misread what you said that badly. Sorry.

    As we have all learned with the jobs numbers, you never bother with them until they are revised a week later.

  230. I am calling total bullshit on the employment figure.

    Mrs. Tigre said the real business pundits were laughing out loud.

    So, you think Biden might mention it over, and over, and over, and over?

    You think Obama will say that his mind weighed heavy at the debates over the Libya crisis that will result in an attack.

    Wag the dog!

  231. Tigre,

    I actually think these unemployment numbers are convenient – for us. 😀

    You’d have to be an utter moron to add +114K jobs, and believe the unemployment rate just dropped by the largest margin in 29 years. This is so cooked, it’s still burnt and on fire.

    I triple dog dare the one to use these stats in the next debate. A finance man like Romney? This is low hanging fruit. We’ll use it to expose just how corrupt this entire administration has been.

  232. Our government would never do anything to harm us. Nah. Those that think that are all just conspiracy nuts. Add the following to the long list of crimes this nation has performed against humanity. And you told the Nazis were defeated in the second world war. Pffft.

    ST. LOUIS (AP) — Doris Spates was a baby when her father died inexplicably in 1955. She has watched four siblings die of cancer, and she survived cervical cancer.

    After learning that the Army conducted secret chemical testing in her impoverished St. Louis neighborhood at the height of the Cold War, she wonders if her own government is to blame.

    In the mid-1950s, and again a decade later, the Army used motorized blowers atop a low-income housing high-rise, at schools and from the backs of station wagons to send a potentially dangerous compound into the already-hazy air in predominantly black areas of St. Louis.

    Local officials were told at the time that the government was testing a smoke screen that could shield St. Louis from aerial observation in case the Russians attacked.

    But in 1994, the government said the tests were part of a biological weapons program and St. Louis was chosen because it bore some resemblance to Russian cities that the U.S. might attack. The material being sprayed was zinc cadmium sulfide, a fine fluorescent powder.

    Now, new research is raising greater concern about the implications of those tests. St. Louis Community College-Meramec sociology professor Lisa Martino-Taylor’s research has raised the possibility that the Army performed radiation testing by mixing radioactive particles with the zinc cadmium sulfide, though she concedes there is no direct proof.

    But her report, released late last month, was troubling enough that both U.S. senators from Missouri wrote to Army Secretary John McHugh demanding answers.

    Aides to Sens. Claire McCaskill and Roy Blunt said they have received no response. Army spokesman Dave Foster declined an interview request from The Associated Press, saying the Army would first respond to the senators.

    The area of the secret testing is described by the Army in documents obtained by Martino-Taylor through a Freedom of Information Act request as “a densely populated slum district.” About three-quarters of the residents were black.

    Spates, now 57 and retired, was born in 1955, delivered inside her family’s apartment on the top floor of the since-demolished Pruitt-Igoe housing development in north St. Louis. Her family didn’t know that on the roof, the Army was intentionally spewing hundreds of pounds of zinc cadmium sulfide into the air.

    Three months after her birth, her father died. Four of her 11 siblings succumbed to cancer at relatively young ages. “I’m wondering if it got into our system,” Spates said. “When I heard about the testing, I thought, ‘Oh my God. If they did that, there’s no telling what else they’re hiding.'”

    Mary Helen Brindell wonders, too. Now 68, her family lived in a working-class mixed-race neighborhood where spraying occurred.

    The Army has admitted only to using blowers to spread the chemical, but Brindell recalled a summer day playing baseball with other kids in the street when a squadron of green Army planes flew close to the ground and dropped a powdery substance. She went inside, washed it off her face and arms, then went back out to play.

    Over the years, Brindell has battled four types of cancer — breast, thyroid, skin and uterine. “I feel betrayed,” said Brindell, who is white. “How could they do this? We pointed our fingers during the Holocaust, and we do something like this?”

    Martino-Taylor said she wasn’t aware of any lawsuits filed by anyone affected by the military tests. She also said there have been no payouts “or even an apology” from the government to those affected.

    The secret testing in St. Louis was exposed to Congress in 1994, prompting a demand for a health study. A committee of the National Research Council determined in 1997 that the testing did not expose residents to harmful levels of the chemical. But the committee said research was sparse and the finding relied on limited data from animal testing. It also noted that high doses of cadmium over long periods of exposure could cause bone and kidney problems and lung cancer. The committee recommended that the Army conduct follow-up studies “to determine whether inhaled zinc cadmium sulfide breaks down into toxic cadmium compounds, which can be absorbed into the blood to produce toxicity in the lungs and other organs.”

    But it isn’t clear if follow-up studies were ever performed. Martino-Taylor said she has gotten no answer from the Army and her research has turned up no additional studies. Foster, the Army spokesman, declined comment.

    Martino-Taylor became involved years ago when a colleague who grew up in the targeted area wondered if the testing was the cause of her cancer. That same day, a second colleague confided to Martino-Taylor that she, too, lived in the test area and had cancer.

    Martino-Taylor decided to research the testing for her doctoral thesis at the University of Missouri. She believes the St. Louis study was linked to the Manhattan Atomic Bomb Project and a small group of scientists from that project who were developing radiological weapons. A congressional study in 1993 confirmed radiological testing in Tennessee and parts of the West during the Cold War.

    “There are strong lines of evidence that there was a radiological component to the St. Louis study,” Martino-Taylor said.
    Blunt, in his letter to the Army secretary, questioned whether radioactive testing was performed. “The idea that thousands of Missourians were unwillingly exposed to harmful materials in order to determine their health effects is absolutely shocking,” the senator wrote.

    McCaskill agreed. “Given the nature of these experiments, it’s not surprising that Missouri citizens still have questions and concerns about what exactly occurred and if there may have been any negative health effects,” she said in a statement.

    Martino-Taylor said a follow-up health study should be performed in St. Louis, but it must involve direct input from people who lived in the targeted areas. “Their voices have not been heard,” Martino-Taylor said.

    http://news.yahoo.com/secret-cold-war-tests-st-louis-raise-concerns-214608828.html

  233. Serious debate? Yeah, right. 🙄 More like scripted bullshit.

    Stupid Americans. Possibly the most deluded nation on earth.

  234. Thank you noah. I knew you were a good man.

    Romney has already said the new unemployment numbers don’t accurately reflect what is happening in our economy. Scott Vorheese, KFAB Omaha talk show host made the same point.

    Economists who favor Obama under estimate expected job creation to make it look better when the jobs numbers come out. They also know that as the holiday season approaches, stores hire more temporary workers. It happens every year.

    ? Welch, former CEO of GE also said some one cooked the books.

    I lived through the Cold War nuclear tests. Several rolls of film were ruined by radiation. Our pictures came back wavy. Dr Elwyn Taylor ISU extension climatologist who grew up in Utah said men took his baby teeth away as soon as he lost them.

  235. Stupid Americans. Possibly the most deluded nation on earth.

    Oh yes, Poolman. Why you’re a model citizen for the rest of to admire. A man of stupendous wisdom and huge successes. Solomon revisited. A Demigod.

    I follow your worldly and sound advice every time you offer it. 😉

  236. ABC News Jake Tapper reported that the Bengazi counsolate requested more security last May, the the administration denied the request. A new poll shows Romney slightly ahead in Ohio.

    If the campaign feels as cornered as I think it does, October will get interesting.

  237. I’m wondering if the key word in Raji’s statement might be “returned.” Perhaps hoping they were rid of Noah they shared their perceptions of the reason for his resurgence there?

    I can’t say I blame them for grousing. Noah’s too high maintenance and disrespectful for group activities.

  238. James, this is going to get so ugly, we won’t recognize it if Obama starts to fall behind in the polling, but the polling stays close. That jobs report today is just the start of the manipulation. I literally laughed out loud after reading the reasons, until it occurred to me how incredibly dumb much of the American public has become. Lemmings.

    We are quickly becoming something similar to USSR, circa 1985. A corrupt media in the tank telling us everything is great, a huge dependency on government, a superpower to be sure but far more fragile than we want to all care to admit.

    Rutherford laughs, but I predict that should Obama lose a close one, you will see civil unrest, possibly attempts at mob rule in certain places. And Lord only knows, what the Obama minions will attempt to do between November – January.

    If Obama wins, God help us. Because the best case scenario is 2011 and stagflation all over again for as far as the eye can see with complete paralysis.

    Either way, there will be blood. One simply gets us there faster than the other if we don’t change course.

  239. Tex,

    So it’s truth when you call Americans lemmings, but fallacy when I call Americans deluded. I get it. 🙄 Preach on, oh righteous one. 😆

  240. It’s astounding that after the initial reality set in, the Obama palace guards seem to have fallen back into the fantasy world that Obama’s performance at the debate is everyone’s fault but his own.

    Pray the children aren’t watching this grotesque lack of accountability.

    It’s troubling that in this supposed information age the campaigns continue to boldly make up their own facts or at the very least are deliberately misleading.

    http://factcheck.org/2012/10/dubious-denver-debate-declarations/

    In the end I think that Romney just proved to me that Bill Clinton doesn’t know everything and can’t forecast the future. He (Bill) has no authority to unequivocally assert that nobody could have done any better with this economy. Maybe, but I’m willing to give Romney a FAIR SHOT.

  241. Poolman, I swore to myself when this election was over, I was finally going to resign myself to hold to no matter how stupid you may be, no matter how untrainable you are, I would finally ignore you after I washed you off the bottom of my shoe. So that gives me approximately 4 1/2 weeks to still mock you, humiliate you, stone you, brick you, and kick you.

    Here goes.

    —————

    Ever heard the words scope and magnitude? Not the mouthwash your wife asks you to use to hide the rot when you go to bed. And think of magnitude as like “big stuff.” Like a mountain. Like the size of Juanita Jean’s ass and Fat Granny Helen’s chin.

    In my example, I referred to approximately 50% of the population as Lemmings, as that it a given in my example and well understood by those familiar with something called numbers, which naturally eliminated you. My mistake, as I forget that not everybody here not familiar with the numeric scale.

    And since I know you don’t understand percentages, let me make another example for you. If you have two pennies left in your savings, and I take one from you, you are left with one penny. That means you have 50% left of what you had and I have 50% of what you had.

    In your example of national delusion, you claimed the entire nation deluded with the exception of just the profound and enlightened few, understood to mean you and a couple of other inbred, cynical, shiftless blockheads intellects. That would be like 0.00001%.

    Now try think of 0.00001% like this. You and I are standing at the Girl Scout Cookie Warehouse with lots and lots and lots of boxes stacked really deep and really high. And in each one of those boxes is many boxes of packages with cookies inside.

    Now if I open one box and take out one package and give you one cookie, that means there’s still lots and lots and lots of more cookies to eat.

    But you are the only one to get to eat the cookie, making you the 0.0001% to eat a cookie and really happy.

    There you go. 😉

  242. I watched a Bill Moyers segment yesterday that had a big report titled “United States of ALEC” and it then followed with the Annenberg’s Kathleen Hall Jamieson discussing the recent presidential debate.

    It was educational, full of information, like Moyers’ reports usually are. He’s one of a handful of journalists I trust to present truth.

    The land of the free and home of the brave is now an obvious misnomer.

  243. Muffy,

    This is only my opinion, but I feel a pretty well founded one as I lived right through it. I’ve said this here before.

    About Clinton? People seem to forget the first two years of Clinton’s Presidency was much like Obama’s first two years of gross incompetence and Hillary Care, followed by the greatest U.S. “shellacking” of a mid-term election, ushering in a Republican Congress in both House and Senate for the first time in 40 years.

    Clinton, though it didn’t appear at the time, was a huge benefactor and unlike Obama, inherited a good economic time. Thank you Ronald Reagan.

    Because what it meant was Clinton didn’t have to take responsibility for much of anything, besides not getting caught by Mrs. Rotten Clinton with the interns. No wars, no worries, lots of young gals, Hillary Care zapped, and a pretty strong economy followed by a huge dose of serendipity.

    So ’95/’96/’97 rolls around, and we have something take off called the world wide web, followed by a huge boom in the stock market ushering in full employment. Great time to be alive and invested. I know. I sit on my ass comfortably hanging around Rutherford Lawson’s neighborhood bar on account of it.

    Also, after three times being threatened with his Presidency, Clinton is dragged to the bargaining table, finally relenting to something called Welfare Reform, then announces “The Day of Big Government is Over With!!!!” Hooray! Cost are actually somewhat under control.

    The tax structure was basically the same as it is now but Clinton’s higher tax rate at 39.6%, though Clinton actually agreed to lowering the capital gains rate.

    High market, lots of earnings, lots of sells of stock, big tax “revenue” windfall for the federal government. Nobody really cares the highest tax rate is 39.6%, because most of their earnings are being taxed at 15.0%. And remember, we had full employment and a boom market, completely opposed to the current situation at hand.

    Unfortunately for George Bush, he inherits the first major bubble and the stock market sinks, of which he had absolutely nothing to do with it. Libs want us to forget that. The we have 19 crazed jihadis take down the very heart of Wall Street. Stock Market stops, then drops 15% in one day when opened.

    But by 2007, we are back to full employment, the DOW is the highest it has ever been, people are fat dumb and happy. Unfortunately Bush forget Reagan Rule #1 – it’s the fucking government that is the problem. So, costs begin to soar again and Bush inherits the absolute sorriest bunch of ‘D’ scumbags to ever reside in the Congressional Building in 2006 and 2008. Goodbye good times.

    ————

    I say all that to say this. Clinton was simply a once in a lifetime lottery winner, and smart enough to get the hell out of the way.

    Bill Clinton is smarter sham than the narcissistic fraud called Barack Obama, with the exception that Barack Obama has the sense not to doodle the interns – probably because he prefers the boys and there is a damn Amazon hanging around the bedroom.

    Would Clinton have behaved differently? Yeah, I think he would have in the fact, unlike that horseshit he posed at the Dim Convention to have his toes sucked, he would have listened to those in the know and controlled the debt.

    But this myth Bill Clinton was some financial wizard is the second biggest lie ever perpetrated on a gullible American public.

    Bill Clinton was just lucky.

  244. It was educational, full of information, like Moyers’ reports usually are. He’s one of a handful of journalists I trust to present truth.

    Naturally.

    Moyers was such a rank liar, he was run of from PBS. That’s like being fired from MSNBC for being too much of an asshole – like Queef Olbiemann.

    Poolman, you’re worse that the typical lib. You’re a complete fucking stooge and dimwit.

    I’m not kidding. You’re one of the dumbest people I’ve ever read. I weep for your children.

  245. As of this morning, we know, the world knows Romney is a despicable liar and a cheat. A man of the lowest character!

  246. If you have two pennies left in your savings, and I take one from you, you are left with one penny. That means you have 50% left of what you had and I have 50% of what you had.

    lol. Tex, I know you are being condescending here, but this cracked me up. Especially since the pennies I save</strike hoard own are worth more than a penny (virtual value). Have you priced copper lately? I use it plenty in my industry.

    But your point being that only half of the American public deluded is hilarious. Because you prefer cherry kool aid and the so-called ‘lemmings’ prefer grape, doesn’t mean you aren’t both drinking kool aid, bub. It just means you crave companionship in your swirling journey down the crapper. Clinging to… well, not necessarily your guns and your Bible.

    An honest assessment of where we are and how we got here would fault both teams for playing in a rigged game. The fact that you are not colorblind is, in this instance, NOT a plus.

    I know you prefer to think that I represent a minuscule segment of our society, as in your cutesy cookie analogy. Truth is, it is the largest growing segment, acting as a virtual yeast working itself throughout the entire globe. Coming to Already in a neighborhood near you.

  247. Remember. This is a hot bed of liberalism on a college campus. A college campus! This is what Obama has in store for America. The DEBATE WAS UNFAIR!!!!

    😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

    The Veracity of Dopes: Obama Supporters Think It Wasn’t Fair that Obama Couldn’t Use His Teleprompter During the Debate

    http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/10/05/the-veracity-of-dopes-obama-supporters-think-it-wasnt-fair-that-obama-couldnt-use-his-teleprompter-during-the-debate/

    Rutherford. 😆 I actually feel for you man. Having to carry a multitude of absolute dopes on your shoulders would be enough to drag any man down.

    Why do you insist on being party to this, man? Come over from the dark side.

  248. “As we have all learned with the jobs numbers, you never bother with them until they are revised a week later.”

    Correct. July and August were revised UP.

    Tigre, she might have been watching CNBC. They found the household survey numbers to be very suspect. 800,000? I don’t think even Deb Was. Shu. believes that number.

  249. “As we have all learned with the jobs numbers, you never bother with them until they are revised a week later.”

    And I don’t bother with them at all until they start verifying who is retired, who no longer is looking, etc….

    I know these numbers are cooked. And I think it’s great. More ammunition.

  250. The seas are more complex than you wrote, Poolman. Land in northern Canada is rising as a springing effect of the melted glacier.

    I have it on pretty good authority from a certain congressman that Guam is sinking from the weight of the military there. 🙂

  251. I have it on pretty good authority from a certain congressman that Guam is sinking from the weight of the military there.

    😆

    Not sinking. Flipping! They need to spread it out more.

  252. I don’t know if he will win the election or what the talking heads will say about the debate, but Romney is an awesome candidate.

    Unless you’re being sarcastic Rabbit, you sound like a five year old. Romney had one good debate when he needed it. The month prior was a total political DISASTER. Stop being silly.

    The worst part is that he lied his way through most of the debate. Obama was a total embarrassment. Obama had the opportunity to shoot fish in a barrel and blew it. It’s no wonder Chris Matthews had a conniption.

  253. Oh let me go on record … Jim Lehrer proved himself to be the worst debate moderator in the history of televised debates. The editor of a high school newspaper could have done a better job.

  254. Tex, I actually think 324 was pretty good. But if you want to give Bush a pass on his first year then you have to give Obama a pass on his first year, and that dramatically changes their side by side job numbers in O’s favor.

    Now, unless I missed it, you didn’t address the fact that Romney morphed the other night. Is he repealing Dodd Frank and Obamacare or not? Is he pushing for a 20% tax cut or not? Is he going to blow up the deficit or not? Cutting PBS? That’s his big idea? That won’t even pay for inauguration day.

    Either he was lying to the nation the other night or he has been lying to the right during his entire campaign. You guys were so excited to see Obama get his long awaited beat down, you really didn’t care what came out of his mouth.

  255. Count me as a big time Romney supporter from here out. And the best thing is I can hold my head high even if he loses the election.

    I can say this much … the debate rescued Romney from being a total loser. Sure the debate was full of lies … conservative Romney went middle of the road all of a sudden … but he performed splendidly. If he continues to kick O’s ass in debates, then I can’t cry too hard if he wins the election. At least he’s finally worked for it and been effective (even if deceitful).

  256. I would like to have him as my boss.

    Ahhhh Rabbit’s in love. It’s almost “cute” to witness it.

    Rabbit …. Mitt would fire your ass so fast your head would spin. And you know what? He’d do it the same way he did it to Jim Lehrer and Big Bird … with that f*cking kind look on his face … don’t wanna do it … I LIKE you … but I just can’t afford you anymore. 👿

  257. You guys were so excited to see Obama get his long awaited beat down, you really didn’t care what came out of his mouth.

    Thor … it’s called ABO (anyone but Obama). Mitt could have pulled his pants down and crapped on the American flag and as long as he was declared the winner of the debate, Tex, Rabbit, etal would be cheering.

    All the “concern” for our nation is just so much pious crap. They hate Obama … hated him from day one.

    I’m just keeping my fingers crossed Joe takes off the gloves and gives little boy Paul a good spanking … then maybe in the following week, Obama will have gotten his act together and can win round 2 of the preso standoff.

    If he can’t win round 2, then the truth about Obama and the teleprompter will be confirmed. Dude can’t think on his feet. We shall see.

  258. #336 Rutherford, it is impossible to debate a liar. Obama couldn’t just keep calling him a liar through the entire debate.

  259. Where’s Newt to tell us Romney lost the Teabagger crowd tonight?

    Much truth in that Tex. He might not outright lose the Tea Party crowd but they can’t be happy with his debate performance. He embraced several parts of Obamacare (and lied doing it) and struck an overall moderate tone … saying he would work with Democrats. The Tea Party doesn’t wanna work with no stinkin’ Democrats.

  260. Damn R. It sucks to get spanked and then deal with the gloating here. But you’re sounding like a . . . a . . . dare I say it?. . . whiny little bitch.

    There I said it.

    Let it go. You despise the shit out of Romney so saying we hate Obama is meaningless. He’s got a 4 years and no record. Quit acting like it’s becuase “nobody wikes hiiim.” Boo hoo.

  261. “Rutherford, it is impossible to debate a liar.”

    Hogwash. Nothing is better than debating a liar. You call them out and attack their credibility.

    Cheese with that whine? Sheesh.

  262. The best part of tonight will be when the polls start tightening up and all the Republicans that were telling us for the last two weeks that polls don’t matter suddenly start slobbering over every new poll release. 🙂

    LOL I missed that one Thor … yeah you nailed it. They not only said polls don’t matter … they said the polls were manipulated in a grand conspiracy to get the Kenyan elected. LOL … what a bunch of maroons.

  263. we should keep in mind that most of his effective moments came when he distanced himself from the base of his party and struck a decidedly moderate, centrist, position

    Raji, THAT is exactly what he did and why his “win” is more infuriating as the days pass. Some of Obama’s excuse makers are saying he was thrown off because the Mitt Romney of the campaign trail didn’t show up to the debate. I don’t know if that is what threw Obama but it damn sure is true. Mitt played to the American people, not the right wing fringe. For once he was a smart politician. And like most pols, a consummate liar.

  264. If I had been Romney, I would have mentioned the 47% before Obama could and explained what it meant.

    But you see James, he didn’t need to. Obama was so f*cking incompetent that the entire debate passed with zero mention of the 47%.

    Hell …. I’m still stunned.

  265. Stop making excuses for the man. The only factor in his ineptitude Wednesday night that he cannot be held accountable for is the fact that he is so absurdly overrated.

  266. BTW, Raji you can rest assured most here (besides James) will not read the fact check you posted on the debates. True conservatives operate in a world devoid of facts. 🙂

  267. Now it’s using 3,000 dead Americans as political fodder.

    You’re a bullsh*t hypocrite Tex. You used four dead Americans in Libya as political fodder. And I came right back at ya. Obama is no more responsible for Stevens’ death than Bush was for the 9/11 3000.

  268. Muffy … the media didn’t “filter” “ten thousand bucks?” or “I can’t have illegals, I’m running for President for Pete’s sake” or “I can’t make the 47% take responsibility for their lives.”

    Stop being a simpleton like the Rabbit. You had a weak candidate … 99% because he was being forced to be someone he is not. He is not a “severe conservative”. He’s a moderate. He succeeded Wednesday night because he didn’t play right wing nutjob. In the process he turned his back on everything he had said up until that night.

    It was Obama’s job to say to him, who are the American people voting for, the Mitt I’m talking to now or the one who has been campaigning for the past 18 months? Obama failed miserably.

  269. I think it was smart to not bring up the 47%. He would have lied about that too, turned it to an argument on taxes and ignored the fact that he called these people victims that wouldn’t take responsibility for their own situation. Instead, the grainy, brutal reveal is still out there in ads and the only place he could make his walk back was on Fox, where nobody wanted to hear it anyway. Incidentally, he did just that last night.

    Again, those here saying he should own the statement are silent on his flip flop. Typical.

  270. Rutherford take my link at #320 and put it up against any one of Newt’s. Then tell me how disappointed you are in my partisanship.

    Then go outside and head in an easterly direction until your hat floats.

  271. Bush a pass on his first year then you have to give Obama a pass on his first year,

    Okay. And Obama is still a massive failure. 😀 In every capacity, he’s an abysmal failure.

    Did you miss one of Romney’s best lines the other night? The growth was lower in 2012, than 2011, than 2010? 45 months into Obama, we’ve still got about a $1.2 trillion deficit. The clown is a lead weight on the economy. He’s a used car salesman out of his league. An affirmative action President.

    Thor, you’re better than anybody I debate on a weekly basis at covering for The One. You really are – you sound like David Axelrod. The problem is, you’re offensive line for a club footed, cross eyed, noodle arm quarterback. Obama ain’t worth a shit, isn’t smart nor capable, he’s a fraud, a dope, a massive liar, and megalomaniac. Did I mention he’s married to a horse’s ass?

    What you witnessed the other night was a complicit media that couldn’t cover for a stooge on stage. Obama is lame.

    And Rutherford’s assertion about how limp Romney is, only goes to prove Rutherford is a recording of a corrupt media, trying to frame Romney as something he is not. I knew if the stage level, Romney was going to clean Obama’s clock. Hell, Romney stayed even with Gingrich sometimes in a debate. Gingrich is simply the best debater on the political stage going.

    This was a SLAUGHTER. Even Pravda MMM had to admit it.

    Romney was not my first choice. Rubio would have been. But Romney is smart man, clean as a whistle, without family flaw, and you guys can’t find any dirt to pin on him. So you make shit up.

    That was, without doubt and I say this without bias, the most decimating debate on a professional stage I have witnessed in my lifetime.

    Hell, look at how lame Rutherford is. He’s now condemning a moderator who gave limp dick four more minutes to talk.

    Did it change the race? Absolutely. Did it put Romney over the top. It should have, but probably did it. Half the country are lemmings – look at all the crap I published here this morning from the Left proving that fact.

  272. Really Thor. I’m kind of surprised you’re a lefty. Rutherford talks like a lefty, even in societal conversation – he knows nothing else.

    I’m surprised you come to the conclusions you do. There must be more you haven’t shared.

    Because you’re smart enough to know better.

  273. Rutherford,

    I hate to say this, because Romney proved my point for me the other night. But at your heart, you’re a very dishonest man.

    DISHONEST. There’s no way around it.

    To compare 9/11 to Libya? Did Al Qaeda mail it in they were coming? Did they blow up Battery Park and telegraph they were coming? Did people in WTC write in their journals they feared for their lives?

    Did I blame Bill Clinton for the six deaths in the first WTC from ’93?

    9/11 was Pearl Harbor. A sneak attack. Nobody, and I mean nobody saw that coming. Libya was gross incompetence, replete with forewarnings by the ambassador himself. It would be equivalent to a plane flying from L.A. to New York with forewarning they were going to hit the WTC again and Obama going golfing.

    What did the POS do when he heard? Went to bed, then flew to Vegas for Obamastash. He’s a fucking disgrace.

    Libya is Obama and Hillary Clinton’s ginormous naivety and stupidity about Islam.

    And you’re party to that with your stupid Christian theocracy horn blowing.

  274. I won’t check Romney at all with these so called fact checkers, because they’re nothing but shill organizations for the corrupt media. The fact that ploy so transparent and you want us to believe that bullshit it is almost insulting.

    I’m a fact checker. There, that clears it up.

    There wasn’t a damn thing Romney said that wasn’t true. You know how I know? Because Romney is smart enough to know every word would be verified, every sentence parsed, every MSNBC hack glued. There’s no need to lie about Obama. HE’S A FAILURE IN EVERY REGARD. THE WORST PRESIDENT EVER. HE’S NOT WORTH TWO DEAD FLIES.

    And since I carry a lot of allegiance with the Tea Party crowd, there wasn’t a damn thing Romney said that bothered them either.

    We all know Medicare is going to have to be means tested to survive. That’s not the issue of the Tea Party, you bunch of saps.

    You Libs are clueless. $5 trillion in taxes? 😆 Damn, if you’re going to lie through your teeth, at least make it believable.

    That’s as big a whopper as 7.8% unemployment.

  275. “BTW, Raji you can rest assured most here (besides James) will not read the fact check you posted on the debates. True conservatives operate in a world devoid of facts.” -Rutherford

    Rutherford take my link at #320 and put it up against any one of Newt’s. Then tell me how disappointed you are in my partisanship. -Muffy

    😆 😆 😆 😆

  276. Tigre, Muffy, Noah, and James:

    If we are simply going to ignore the dangers of debt like The One does, I can make a very strong case the recession 1981/1982 far worse than what Obama walked into. Prime rates of at or near 16%, gas shortages, 10;8% unemployment, Iranian hostage crisis, etc…

    And I don’t remember Ronald Reagan wailing about Walter Mondale cheating on stage.

    Somebody mentioned today, that if Mitt Romney had eating a Hershey’s Kiss before the debate, the libs would be accusing him of placing a miniature tin foil hat on the podium. 😆

  277. The sad fact is, maybe one in three voters were even watching the debate and by the end of the day, the theme will be Obama more than held his own – even looked Presidential.

    You watch.

    It must be hard to so often have no idea what you’re talking about. The debate got record viewing …. more than any previous Pres debate, which is good for Romney.

    Second no one and I mean no one is saying the POTUS held his own. The let-down is palpable. The disappointment extreme, almost mournful. The only consolation is Mitt won by lying repeatedly. Even that is thin consolation because most will believe the lies and Obama made zero attempt to expose them in any forceful way.

  278. Regarding Al Gore, a couple of things.

    First, damn he needs Tipper back. My wife told me they got divorced … I didn’t know that. He looks bloated and almost sickly.

    Second, the comment about Denver is not as preposterous as you might think. The air in CO is noticeably thinner. As someone with breathing issues, I am very aware of this. In fact, I could not attend meetings at my old company in Boulder because I basically would have needed an O2 tank with me the whole time. One of my first trips there as an adult, I got off the plane and immediately went sight seeing in the mountains with a colleague. Damn near killed me. As we got near one of the highest elevations I could only get one word out of my mouth at a time before needing to inhale again.

    If you don’t live in CO, it’s best to plan an afternoon to acclimate yourself to the elevation before doing anything stressful. Gore claims (rightly or wrongly) that the POTUS arrived in Denver on the day of the debate. Romney might have gotten there earlier, I don’t know.

    Bottom line, Obama lost because his strategy going in was fatally flawed. But Gore’s observation is not as nutty as it might seem at first blush.

  279. I thought it was Lehrer’s fault.

    ** GUFFAW ** 😆 😆

    Rutherford, {sigh}, I have been to Colorado dozens of times since my in-laws have a home in the Collegiate Peaks, the highest mountains in Colorado.

    If Obama would have had to stand on Pikes Peak to give his spew, I would remind you that his opponent did too. Obama is physically fit so we are told. We’re talking 1,500 feet higher than the flattest panhandle of Oklahoma. 😆

    But even more than that, it most certainly did not seem to bother Obama to give his insufferable 2008 nomination speech in the very same Denver, CO. How acclimated did that blowhard have to be that night?

    For crying out loud, you’re starting to read like Poolman. Here. Think back to a happier time, complete with Styrofoam columns. This ought to warm your little keister.

  280. They did the same thing to Paul Ryan. In the end they mumbled some shit about what he implied.

    Meanwhile Romney/Ryan want to end Medicare as we know it –

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/10/03/bob_woodward_obama_is_proposing_cutting_medicare.html

    Of course Mitt lied. Of course he cheated. THE ALTERNATIVE IS UNTHINKABLE.

    Go change your shorts and wipe your nose and get it together for round two or this “Mitt lied” shit is going to blow up in your faces. I hope it does.

    Obama’s strategy. So….he lost on purpose?

    Obama is a child. Does he think that he can ignore problems and they’ll just go away? I get the sense that he thinks everything outside of himself is like a tree falling in the forest. Only if he hears it did it really fall.

    He couldn’t ignore Romney away in front of 50 million observers and he couldn’t counter anything Romney said. Only today is he running around talking smack. It’s indecent. Presidential? No. Punk? Yes.

  281. Regarding 268, Tex I didn’t get a chance to thank you for the thoughtful comment in between calling you a bullsh*t hypocrite and an a$$hole. Like I said, you’re a complex individual.

  282. It must be hard to so often have no idea what you’re talking about. The debate got record viewing …. more than any previous Pres debate, which is good for Romney.

    There are 207,643,594 registered voters in the United States. There were 67,200,000 estimated people who watched the debate.

    I said…The sad fact is, maybe one in three voters were even watching the debate.

    Unless my math is rusty, that is = 32.3631462%.

    I profusely apologize for saying = 33.333333% probably watched the debate.

    and by the end of the day, the theme will be Obama more than held his own – even looked Presidential.

    I also apologize for failing to recognize that Obama was so lame, even you stooges couldn’t make excuse for him, and instead of choosing to make it sound like Obama was solid, you chose the path of framing the conspiracy that Romney lied and cheated.

    I am forever in your debt. I’ll never be the same again. Smooches…

  283. Regarding 268, Tex I didn’t get a chance to thank you for the thoughtful comment in between calling you a bullsh*t hypocrite and an a$$hole. Like I said, you’re a complex individual.

    😆 😆 😆

    And sometimes you’re still funny. You’re welcome. Offer holds, no matter who wins. ~ The bullsh*tting hypocritical a$$hole.

  284. 9/11 was Pearl Harbor. A sneak attack. Nobody, and I mean nobody saw that coming.

    Well, THAT contradicts what the Freedom of Information Act has revealed, Mr Fact Checker. 😆

  285. ROTFLMAO!!!! I just finished reading “Mitt Humiliates The Media and Now They Will Seek Revenge” by John Nolte on the Breitbart site. In the words of my profane friends here …. holyf*ckingsh*t!!!!

    Forget this screwball notion that Sensico and Newt are the same person. I am telling you … Tex Taylor IS John Nolte. I swear, Taylor could have written that article word for word!!!

    Here’s the problem … some folks actually DID watch the GOP primary debates. Without any media spin, they got to see Mitt turn in mixed performances. Mitt without a follow up question or a challenge from an opponent, is spot on. He’s fantastic. Ask Mitt one follow up or challenge any of his “facts” and he falls apart. Happened repeatedly during the primaries. So this notion that Mitt’s image was entirely shaped by that wicked left wing media is preposterous.

    Anyway, Tex, thanks for the good read. And now you can fess up to the rest of us that you write for Breitbart’s site. 😉

  286. Muffy @ 320 “It’s troubling that in this supposed information age the campaigns continue to boldly make up their own facts or at the very least are deliberately misleading.”

    Muffy’s link was a better read than mine. Even Tex should take the time to read it.
    Face it, politicians lie 😉

  287. Yeah, Grit. I know. Mossad. Bush did it. zzzzz….

    Unlike you, I don’t think our government mass murderers – even FDR.

    I’ve got a dare. Why don’t you write Ron Paul about your situation, be sure to include all the services you’ve received without wages rendered, and see you still love him like you once did Obama in 2008?

    😀

    He would shuck your worthless ass like the rest of us have, lowlife.

  288. Raji, I took a look. Got all the way to the second claim and quit.

    Here’s why.

    Romney again promised to “not reduce the taxes paid by high-income Americans” and also to “lower taxes on middle-income families,” but didn’t say how he could possibly accomplish that without also increasing the deficit.

    Yes, Romney did. Twice. Growth. First ten minutes.

    A concept well beyond the comprehension of liberal media, but exactly what led to Bill Clinton’s “big successes.”

    I actually would prefer Romney leave the personal tax structure as is, dramatically cut government spending entirely eliminating many departments, and apply whatever additional tax revenue is derived toward the deficit. Cut the corporate tax rate first and apply that rate to small business.

    But that is just my preference. Anything is better than what we have now.

  289. Unlike you, I don’t think our government mass murderers – even FDR.

    I think I was debunking your claim nobody SAW it coming, which is PROVED false by internal memos, among other intelligence reports that are now public. I know, I know, lump it all together and serve it up Mr. Fact Checker. 😆

    Funny, you claim on one hand (the left one, obviously) O responsible for 4 murders and even had an avatar stating “stop me before I kill again” and yet on the other hand (that’d be the right) the ‘government’ is NOT responsible for ANY wrong doing.

    How do even get dressed in the morning under such conflicting notions? Or are you still in pjs? 😆

  290. Yes, Romney did. Twice. Growth. First ten minutes.

    I really can’t understand how anyone can take you seriously. Growth? GROWTH? WTF? Are we talking face stubble or tumor? Growth. 🙄 Pffft! What makes Rmoney’s magic pixie dust work in this stagnant economy whereas O’s constant dusting continues to fail? You want I should count how many times O’s touted the same bleepin’ remedy? Give me a break!

  291. If you want to blame FDR for 3,000 deaths, patron saint of the Dimocratic Party you belong, be my guest lowlife. You most certainly would have been gaining sustenance from the gov’t in the 30s, so I would expect an ungrateful ingrate like you to badmouth FDR while you were stealing from the kitty.

    I don’t blame our government and am not looking at your stupid shit you link.

    What I do blame George Bush for, Bill Clinton for, Barack Obama for, is that we haven’t put you and your wife in front of a firing squad for treason and aiding and abetting the enemies of America.

    If it is easier to hang you, or drag you to death, or slip you onto old Sparky (Eduard Delacroix style without sponge gaining my vote), give you a massive dose of phenolbarbital, or slip you into the gas chamber, no matter. I think you’ve well earned a gruesome death of some sort.

    If they can’t work up the stomach for that, I vote that we stick you in with Bradley Manning in a jail cell, and give you a lifetime of butt hurt in a Papillion darkened hut.

    Or, to save money due to the deficit because of thieves like you, simply tattoo you with a Mohammed Bomb Head on your forehead and turn you over to your beloved Palestine authorities.

    That is Orgasmic dreaming about that.

  292. Poolman, there are certain places I won’t go with you. I will anybody else here, but not you. One is economics.

    If anything has become apparent the last two years of your sordid presence, you’re too fucking stupid to change AAA batteries, much less have a serious discussion that has numbers.

    I mean come on, Poolman. Put your pants on, put your wife’s Daisy May Mirror up back in the cabinet and the flashlight away, and quit staring at your rectum you’re squatting over.

    Four weeks. Four long weeks. Then you go on ignore.

  293. The unemployment rate is down to 7.8%. How convenient!

    Oh James PLEASE don’t tell me you’re joining the chorus of nutjobs that are saying BLS falsified their data to help Obama. Please!!! That’s NOT what you’re saying is it?

  294. This is so cooked, it’s still burnt and on fire.

    I continue to overestimate you bunch of loons. When I heard conservative rumblings on TV today that the numbers were “cooked” I thought, well at least my League of Vermin Voters won’t be THAT nutty! What was I thinking?

    If BLS said the rate had gone up to 10% you guys would be swearing on the lives of your nearest and dearest about the authenticity of the number.

    This is worse than pathetic. This is evidence of mass lunacy. This is an entire population in the grips of mad paranoia.

    Maybe Newt was right? Maybe I should shut this place down since it seems to only stir the cauldron of madness. Maybe a shutdown would give several of you time to seek psychiatric help. 😐

  295. Poolman …. good Abby Martin vid.

    Tex … the Obama Uh video is poor compared to another one I saw today that includes Mitt in the mix. Can’t find it on YouTube for the time being.

  296. Rutherford, I don’t think the numbers are cooked. I know they’re cooked. The economy sucks and it is not coming back.

    Want me to proved it’s a mathematical “anomaly”? I shouldn’t have to, because you have to create 185,000 – 190,000 new jobs just to stay even. Most of the new jobs were part-time.

    So here you go:

    On Friday morning the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) released its September jobs report, which indicated the (U-3) unemployment rate fell last month to 7.8%, down from 8.1% in August, as non-farm payrolls added 114,000 jobs.

    The 7.8% figure reflects the percentage of the total workforce who are unemployed and are actively looking for work. This figure does not include unemployed members of the workforce who are not actively looking for work; nor does it factor in workers with part-time jobs who are seeking full-time employment. When these workers are included, the (U-6) un/underemployment rate for September remained at 14.7% as it had been in August.

    In addition, once again the market labor participation rate remained unchanged.

    By the way, the last five years of the Bush Adm., median income increased approximately $5,000 over the last five years, even with the collapse. The last four under Obama ($4,300) – a $9,300 difference.

    Just so you know. 😉

  297. Rutherford, let me fill you in some news you won’t hear through your corrupt media. You must have missed this. Exactly six weeks old.

    I will assume that you will agree of all the businesses in America, the one that probably comes the closest to middle to lower middle America is Walmart. Surely we can agree on that. It is the largest retailer, low cost store in the world that specializes in consumer staples – the most basic commodity there is.

    Last month, this was reported:

    Wal-Mart Stores Inc. reported a 5.7 percent increase in second-quarter net income and raised its outlook for the full year as the world’s largest retailer continues to woo back frugal shoppers by re-emphasizing it has the lowest prices on everything from clothes to electronics.

    But Wal-Mart is seeing its momentum slow down amid a tough economic climate here and abroad. Its total revenue came in short of Wall Street estimates, and the discounter is delaying store expansion plans in Mexico, its largest international division, as it deals with bribery charges there. It’s also scaling back store growth plans in China and Brazil to boost profitability in those operations.

    Wal-Mart is considered an economic bellwether because the retailer accounts nearly 10 percent of nonautomotive retail spending in the U.S. The company, based in Bentonville, Ark., said its customers are still being squeezed by economic problems in the U.S. and abroad. In the U.S., Wal-Mart’s low-income shoppers are still having trouble stretching their dollars to the next payday, and that financial duress escalated overseas in the latest quarter. The company said what’s helped it is a focus on low prices.

    The only guys making in Obama’s middle class are people with money. The phony and hypocrite has failed the poorest among us. Obama is tied to the hip of Wall Street.

    You’re on the wrong side.

  298. I think some of the greatest post debate spin and crazy is coming from your side Rutherford. I won’t even get going on newts nonsense.
    I feel some vindication as to how Romney is running. He is running very much like I had said he would and he is very much running his campaign. It has some quirks and questions but I think he’s doing what he wants and he’s doing very well.

  299. FWIW I don’t buy in2 any kind of wag the dog thing but if there were to be one Libya isn’t the place to look. Cast your eyes eastward to Syria…

  300. newt …you do read your own links right? Bill Buck the “breaker” of hanky gate admits that its a non-issue in his own update to his write up.
    F@#$ing Mormons!!! They don’t drink coffee and they don’t use Kleenex…..:(

  301. Alfie,

    FWIW I don’t buy in2 any kind of wag the dog thing but if there were to be one Libya isn’t the place to look. Cast your eyes eastward to Syria…

    Sheer speculation, but I wouldn’t guess that. I believe these folks are frozen on Syria, like Bush was frozen on Iraq before he went. There are no good alternatives – the despot or the radicals? Barack doesn’t have the balls.

    And it would be against the nature of this slug for President. If Obama is anything, he’s a megalomaniac. He’s got to save face.

    I think he’ll hit Libya hard and take huge credit for no success, probably wasting a few hundred that weren’t even in the general vicinity.

  302. The USA would be wise to engage Turkey. One form of this engagement would be to support the Ankarra govts. desire to set up safe zones. Also Syria has gone to two strikes (first the plane now mortar attacks) against the pitcher Erdogan…the Turks have initiated retaliatory firing into Syria.
    The Turks engaging Syria also helps in the Israel / Iran match.
    Again I doubt Washington has the stones or vision but still…
    I get your reasoning though but I think he and his are frozen for fear of offending his base,the Syria via proxy ploy gives him (and Susan Rice) a Wilsonian gambit…its actually more up his alley I think.
    btw loved 363…little tin foil hats.lol

  303. Remember this. I thought it was probably about as true a statement in our current political environment and cultural situation as I’ve heard the last four years. Can’t remember who wrote it, but it wasn’t too many months ago.

    “The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable
    of entrusting an inexperienced man like him with the Presidency. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their president. The problem is much deeper and far more
    serious than Mr. Obama, who is a mere symptom of what ails America . Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince. The Republic can survive a Barack Obama. It is less likely to survive a multitude of Idiots such as those who made him their
    president.”

    Might have been the Czech Republic. Not sure who wrote it.

    Incredible that it came from a foreign source.

  304. @ thor you’re being dishonest to yourself and much like Rutherford,and Obama are buying into YOUR preconceived notions and party line rhetoric.
    Is he repealing Dodd Frank and Obamacare or not?
    All along Romney has stated he’d repeal and replace. Why self proclaimed conservatives applaud this I don’t know. Mitt has a clear position that regulation is good and that parts of health care law is also good. hell for the latter he kind of had a thing at the state level,just in case you didn’t hear.
    Is he pushing for a 20% tax cut or not?Yeah he is but he is also looking for across the board spending cuts and has a running mate who wrote a little précis on tackling the entitlement leviathans.
    Is he going to blow up the deficit or not? On this one you may have some traction but only depending on how strident you are in defending your economist du jour. Obviously Romney is hoping that his “shock” therapy will be the right thing,as opposed to the $timulus.
    Cutting PBS?Yeah and fwiw there is obvious red meat here on this one. The thing is though there are two points in this one. First you libs constantly screech at us righties about how PBS really doesn’t get mush $$$ from the taxpayer…well then they won’t mind if we don’t give ’em any then! Second is that even if they(PBS) are not fully stripped of govt largesse the symbolism and substance of getting deep into line items in the budget dovetails into the hammering Romney has done on business acumen,the economy and LEADERSHIP.

  305. Picking up on that last line to thor….
    I don’t personally score one debate as a great boon for Mitt but it really must be said,and asked of our resident lefties….
    Does ANYONE here truly believe Barack Hussein Obama has exemplified leadership as it is generally defined for a POTUS?

  306. Tex, Obamacare in one sentence was priceless.

    Alfie, I have come to believe that you saying you agree with me about something I wrote will be the seventh sign of the apocalypse. 😆

  307. I liked 345 ET so mount up the Horsemen baby!
    As for 287 and the conversation it started…just offering another view,fwiw I hope we’re both wrong.
    I’d ask gorilla but I may be persona non grata soon especially if the Pats spank his Broncos

  308. You’re welcome, Ragi.

    Rutherford, CNBC called the numbers contradictory. ABC’s Chris Como also wrote the actual unemployment rate is higher than announced.Joe Scarboro is dubious too..

    I think the unemployment rate would look less suspicious in June than October. Some liberals and moderate newscasters think so too.I’m not accusing anyone of fraud, but an independent researcher should investigate.

  309. Most of the lower unemployment rate is due to more federal jobs. The number of private jobs fell, and many of the new ones were part time.

  310. In fast and Furious, 57 weapons from this program have been found at crime scenes, including a scene where 15 Mexican teens were slaughtered. We were promised the most transparent administration in history, yet we have Eric Holder being held in contempt, that is a big deal. If I were a Latino, I would be very upset with this administration who is turning a blind eye to hundreds and hundreds of deaths. Now these 57 weapons, these are just what we have discovered so far. Does anyone seriously think we have found them all? The 57 we know about are responsible for hundreds of deaths. If this ratio holds true, then the more than 1300 guns we still don’t know about could very well represent thousands of more dead.

    Our government has been proved beyond reasonable doubt to be complicit in mass murder, and our media, Rutherford, thor, newt, do not care. Mexico’s attorney general is calling for those involved to be extradited and tried for this crime, and no one is listening. I guess Obama’s new policy on deporting illegal Mexicans in this country makes a little more sense now doesn’t it? Our President, because of his involvement in F & F, uses executive privileged to first silence all information on the crime, then again to grant amnesty to Latinos to keep their vote. These are not the actions of an innocent man.

  311. I’m a simpleton and in love, according to Rutherford. Well, R. Don’t worry. I’m not going to start a blog and post video of President Romeny’s weekly fire side chats.

    Romeny is an awesome candidate. Rutherford, you may find this hard to believe, but the debate was one of the only times I’ve ever seen Romeny in action. I can’t follow the day to day campaign stuff. Can’t stand political conventions. Didn’t even really watch much of the GOP debates.

    I have to admit. The liberal characterizations of Romeny left a sort of unconscious imprint on my mind. I was pleasantly surprised to find out it was all bull shit.

    As for Romney owing me a job in which he could never lay me off……Romeny would never lay the Rabbit off. I’d have made Bane Capital a healthy return so far. 🙂

  312. Tigre, worst call ever. But the Braves still deserved to lose. My softball team plays better defense, and I’m serious. Those throws were unbelievable chokes.

  313. By the way, it’s absolutely insulting to every American stuck working some part time bull shit, sans benefits, that Obama is touting their tough situation as a feather in his cap. And Democrats wonder why they have lost the working man’s vote……

  314. Poolman, I watched Moyers coverage of ALEC last week. Yes, he’s excellent. I warned everyone about ALEC months ago and was laughed at. It ain’t at all funny.

  315. Anyone defending the status quo when it comes to how we calculate unemployment is no friend of the working class. My God. I remember when Democrats were at least we’re in touch with workers. Now they call us loons when we bemoan the fact that there are millions of part time employees looking for full time work who literally don’t count.

  316. You despise the shit out of Romney so saying we hate Obama is meaningless.

    Damn you sound like Tex, Tigre. I despise neither Mitt nor Tex. 🙂 I DO despise the sh*t out of Sarah Palin.

    I like Mitt. I might not mind his being my boss but unlike the Rabbit, I know he’s capable of firing me for no good reason but the bottom line and give me that sympathetic look as he twists the knife in my back.

    He might even make a decent POTUS with a Dem congress to keep him in check. But Mitt + a Repub congress (house and senate) spells disaster. No, I’m not a loon like the rest of you. We’ll survive it. No “blood on the streets”. It just will get very unpleasant and America’s ideals will go right down the toilet.

  317. You’re a loon.

    Like Mitt Romney was incapable, hey? You told us that for two months, until you get your ass kicked off the stage Wednesday night. Suddenly, your silent, churlish and exposed.

    I’ve listened closely today to all the excuses why our TOTUS didn’t compete Wednesday. Romney cheated, it was the altitude, the moderator. And it occurred to me everything that was demanded by your ignorant crowd to make Obama whole was tax returns, and 47%, and Cayman bank accounts.

    Couldn’t ever be that Obama was lame and a fraud.

    In other words, like TOTUS Wednesday night, absolutely nothing of substance or importance and certainly no personal bragging rights. Now you’re bragging about a jobs report that appears to be part-time, low wage jobs.

    Who knew when Obama was going to transform America, he would be so successful, that he would convince millions of Americans like you that flipping burgers part-time at McDonalds was a smashing success?

    The ultimate reactionaries. Just can’t accept that not only is your emperor naked, but you’re clearly on the wrong path too.

  318. Hogwash. Nothing is better than debating a liar. You call them out and attack their credibility.

    Newt, I hate to side with Tigre but I think he’s right. Romney threw Obama meatball after meatball and Obama failed to hit them out of the stadium. There is just no excuse for it.

    Also … one of the articles you posted on Mitt cheating acknowledged in an update that it was a handkerchief Romney pulled out of his pocket, not a wad of cheat sheets. Now of course, we don’t know what he might have had written on his hand. 🙂 (hat tip to Sarah)

  319. Do you want to bet some money that Moyers was let go at PBS? If he’s now on again, so what?

    Moyers has never been relevant. Like Poolman, he’s a public leech who hates his country. Doesn’t surprise me you and Poolman have similar interests, likes and wants.

    I’m pretty close to putting you on a level playing field, if you want the honest truth.

  320. Then go outside and head in an easterly direction until your hat floats.

    At least I’ll get to see my old home before I hit the ocean. 🙂

    P.S. Our comments crossed in the night … I gave you props for your fact check.

  321. Romney threw Obama meatball after meatball and Obama failed to hit them out of the stadium. There is just no excuse for it.

    Oh bullshit. Romney wiped the floor with Obama. Obama didn’t respond because he couldn’t respond. Cayman Islands isn’t an answer to a floundering economy, 17,000,000 million in additional food stamps, a huge loss in middle class wages, and $6 trillion in debt. Now you really are reverting to lying. You’re so full of shit.

    The only reason Obama may and I stress may have gained momentum is because our demon media for six weeks had successfully characterized Mitt Romney as some Gordon Gekko. That doesn’t work now.

    You just can’t accept the truth, can you. Do you have any idea how stupid YOU LOOKED AFTER WEDNESDAY NIGHT, much less Obama?

    I’m laughing at you like I do Newt.
    Good grief.

  322. Nobody, and I mean nobody saw that coming.

    Daily Security Briefing: Bin Laden to Attack in the United States.

    Now I admit the intel was vague. But even folks within the administration admit the threat could have been taken more seriously. And yes … the lax was shared fault between two administrations … Clinton and Bush.

    I repeat … you politicized four dead in Libya. You come at me with a knife, I pull a gun, It’s the Chicago way. 😉

  323. There wasn’t a damn thing Romney said that wasn’t true. You know how I know? Because Romney is smart enough to know every word would be verified

    WOW are you stuck on stupid. That had to be one of the dumbest things I’ve ever read on any blog anywhere anytime.

  324. Tigre, for the record, my failure to acknowledge Muffy’s fact check until much later simply had to do with my catching up on comments. And by the way … I’ve watched Muffy comment here for a while, Muffy makes every attempt to be fair. You Sir are no Muffy. (hat tip to Lloyd Bentsen)

  325. Your fucking gun like your miniature dick is shooting blanks, Bozo. The Chicago Way is 40 dead bangers a weekend and a mayor going to Twitter to ask for suggestions. And you live in that shit. What’s that say about your judgment? You moved to Beirut. 🙄

    Osama is dead and so Christopher Stevens. Now we’ve even got absolute proof they requested more security and were turned down. That’s inexcusable. Where’s the fucking media, you damn frauds? Four dead people while dickhead flies out to another campaign fundraiser.

    Obama shouldn’t be beaten in a vote. He should be fired and condemned if you and your ilk had any decency. This is far worse than Watergate.

  326. WOW are you stuck on stupid. That had to be one of the dumbest things I’ve ever read on any blog anywhere anytime.

    Yeah, coming from the man who assured us Romney wasn’t qualified. How’s it feel to have your face shoved in the toilet by your own hand?

    TOTUS was exposed as a farce and you can’t live with that. He’s a dimwit and an imbecile. Uh Ah Uh Ah. Let me be clear. Ah Uh Ah Uh.

  327. Tex I won’t belabor the point because obviously Al Gore’s excuse was almost as thin as the air in Colorado … but I would guess that Obama had been on the ground in Denver longer back in 2008 than he was on Wednesday. I’m talking time to acclimate to the changed conditions. I remember watching an HBO concert with Dennis Miller where he actually had O2 on stage cos he wasn’t reacting well to the CO air.

    Just sayin;.

  328. Only today is he running around talking smack. It’s indecent. Presidential? No. Punk? Yes.

    Muffy, I actually agree with you somewhat on this. Seeing Obama on the stump yesterday was like seeing a guy who had the crap beat out of him, going back to his boys and bragging about what a wimp his opponent was. The smack Obama was talking on the stump was too little too late. It needed to be said on stage.

    It’s a bit like ragging on a guy when he’s not in the room but not having the guts to rag on him to his face.

    I’m looking for a course correction by the second debate.

  329. you chose the path of framing the conspiracy that Romney lied and cheated.

    I don’t say he cheated. That he lied is no conspiracy … he lied like a rug. 🙂

  330. 17,000,000 million in additional food stamps

    😯 😯 😯

    I really DO need to brush up on some of this modern math. Yikes!!

  331. Yes, Romney did. Twice. Growth. First ten minutes.

    Total nonsense … equivalent to saying “magic”.

    The proposed 20% tax reduction on the rich can be achieved only by increasing the deficit or taxing the middle class. If you close every loophole in the book (mortgage deduction, charitable deduction, etc.) you can’t pay for the tax breaks on the wealthy. So either the middle class gets hit with a tax hike or the deficit increases.

  332. I’m looking for a course correction by the second debate.

    Obama can correct course back to the dressing room with his tail between his legs again. Obama is horrid without assistance and he’s up against an incredibly smart executive with facts at his fingers. I think Romney was actually enjoying himself. He wanted it to go on longer.

    Obama’s a DJ, lightweight and a hoser. I’ve been telling you that for four years. He’s grossly incompetent and completely in over his head. Hell, he can even construct a budget his own party will vote for. How fucking incompetent does Obama have to be that Harry Reid and Bernie Sanders won’t vote for it?

    Unless the moderator covers (and everyone knows that the hacks are pressuring to do that), or they don’t stack the audience with a bunch of shitheads running out time by demanding tax returns and Cayman Island questions, this beat down should be worst than the first.

    What’s delicious is what hasn’t been talked about. Do you know how many opportunities Romney actually missed? Numerous. He could bust a million caps in Obama’s ass and not run out of ammunition.

    Look at what you’re asking Obama to use as return volley? 😆 😆 Irrelevant horseshit to running the country. There’s not a small business owner one that could care less about 2001 Romney Tax returns. Chris Matthews is as big a stooge as the rest of you zeroes. A big mouth asshole without a brain.

    What’s Obama’s economic plan? More Solyndra?

    You can’t defend this failure. It’s impossible. Obama failed. Big Time. Get used to it.

  333. Daily Security Briefing: Bin Laden to Attack in the United States.

    Much more than that and from multiple sources. Intel stating Bin Laden may be planning to use jet liners as weapons and fly them into buildings, and several Al Qaeda suspects flight training in American aviation schools, for two more unheeded warnings.

  334. The proposed 20% tax reduction on the rich can be achieved only by increasing the deficit or taxing the middle class. If you close every loophole in the book (mortgage deduction, charitable deduction, etc.) you can’t pay for the tax breaks on the wealthy. So either the middle class gets hit with a tax hike or the deficit increases.

    No wonder you flunked math. Don’t worry – obviously, so did Obama. What 20% reduction? There is no magic percentile. That’s an outrageous lie. Like that $5 trillion bullshit you stooges pulled out of your ass. Even CNN called that Cutter lying bitch on it today.

    I’m not even going to bother to explain. You’re hopelessly devoid. I guarantee I could put it in tabular form with numbers, and you still wouldn’t get the concept of weighted revenue and growth.

  335. Tex regarding 395, it is well known that the unemployment rate does not include folks who are not actively looking for work. The difference between today’s job numbers and prior months is that the folks who have “dropped out” did NOT go up. Hence the dip in unemployment was due to other factors … perhaps part time jobs as you suggest.

    The other thing to remember, as Jared Bernstien noted today, BLS has always acknowledged their numbers have a margin of error. That margin is constant from month to month. So from my POV while the exact number might not be 7.8%, it still did go down from previous months.

    You won’t admit it but Chris Matthews made an old fool out of former GE CEO Jack Welch who talked smack on Twitter about the unemployment rate. I always felt Welch was an ass but his latest exploit sealed the deal.

  336. Chris Matthews couldn’t make a fool out of you. Matthews is a legend in his own mind and Jack Welch knew exactly what he was talking about. Welch is one of the smartest men in America, nimrod. Rachel Maddow ain’t.

    You mean to tell me that this month, we just experienced the largest job growth in 30 years? ** GUFFAW ** That is exactly what would have had to have transpired for these numbers to have made sense. 30 years. BULLLLL SHITTTTT.

    We find out today some of these big BLS creeps are Obama donors. Unbelievable.

    The corruption in our government runs so deep. If Romney wins, he ought to fire anybody in the government registered as Dimocrat.

    I would. Mass firings on the spot. Clean house. Even the damn janitors.

  337. Romeny is an awesome candidate. Rutherford, you may find this hard to believe, but the debate was one of the only times I’ve ever seen Romeny in action.

    Rabbit, my friend, you just disqualified yourself from assessing Romney.

    The Cubs won the game I took my Dad to this summer. Imagine how nutty he’d sound if he said “I haven’t seen the Cubs play except for that one time, and they are a winning team!!!!”

  338. Hey Tool™,

    It’s been awhile since I reminded the board of this fact.

    Tool™ wasn’t even smart enough to know he and his wife had to file tax returns for years. Then the IRS came knocking. So he ditched the mortgage to pay for it. 😆 They ought to put the Poolman family on that show that advertises stupid crooks.

    But this uneducated inbred wants us all to believe he’s on top of “intelligence”, economics, science, math. A real gamer. Woo hoo!

    Take a hike, Bozo.

  339. Sorry Rutherford for 453. Poolman is despicable and one turd that needs to be flushed permanently. I’m tired of this peckerwood’s shit being stuck to my shoe.

    Sorry to post that crap on your board, but I disdain that prick. He’s useless and needs to be destroyed. I would happily volunteer.

    Some of that crap he said to Gorilla last month was the final straw.

  340. Tex … maybe you aren’t keeping up … Romney has said he’s going to reduce taxes by 20%. To paraphrase Mitt, Tex you can have your own home in Okie and your own dog but you can’t have your own facts. 😉

    With that, I’m going to bed.

  341. Take a hike, Bozo.

    The wife and I did the evening hike a couple hours ago. I left the bulbous nose and size 14s at the house this go round. I’ll keep ’em fresh for the end of the month when you make your annual debut.

    I don’t think it does much good to correct your inaccuracies, but I’ll try. Again. Failing to file taxes isn’t the same as forgetting to file. Paying them everything including penalties and interest 6 years prior to even applying for a home mortgage separates them further than 17,000,000 million degrees from relevant.

    I posted this one awhile ago, but it’s worth a review. It wasn’t debunked then, though one did try…

  342. Romney won fair and square. Stop bitching about about the lying, ya hypocrites.

    Estimates on the jobs numbers were 113,000 bringing the unemployment number down to 8.1% (or 8.0 I can’t remember). Actual numbers released were 114,000 added yet the resulting unemployment number dropped to 7.8%.

  343. Truth Squad in the HOUSE……..
    You know I’m sick of all the fact check follies in their dishonesty.
    Take the tax cut saga. It focuses solely on the rate cuts which even partisan opponents acknowledge to be revenue neutral, they follow up that this will not be stimulative. I don’t get how any cut isn’t at least minimally helpful.
    Anyway what always always always gets left out is that in the 1st 100 Mitt is also looking for spending cuts down to 20% of GDP with an immediate slash of 5% across the board except defense. The merits of the last bit there will surely be fleshed out in Congress but will also clearly be done with Romney providing leadership as opposed to hints and walk away that is Obama’s hallmark.

  344. On healthcare Romneys pre-existing conditions clause is as good as it gets without a mandate. There are existing laws and numbers on the side of those that support Romneys plan. It is also a point where Mitt has been consistent. It has to be said that the cornerstones of Mitts plan allows states to be primary. So instead of lying about Romneys plan perhaps you should get off your ass and get your state in line with your views…kind of like the country was meant to act. Following up on that in a certain state Romney eventually accepted and supported a mandate,it was seen as the right choice for a situation that looked at a far smaller number than other states would face.
    Fucking people on this blog need to stop applauding PPACA when they themselves no it is riddled and rotted with crap but that is what happens when the POTUS hints and walks instead of leads.

  345. There are a number of points that FactCheck claims to be lies when in fact at worse they are exaggerations that are meant for political punch but whose nugget is true.
    Take the panel that is claimed to lead to rationing. FactCheck is all over that one saying no no no. The thing is ultimately (as Romney stated) a board that makes recommendations that must be eventually obeyed will impact the care you get. Again folks should look at how the mammogram thing went down or how the UK (&others) version of this board have impacted care and by all means look at MA to see how we are dealing with ever increasing costs. The answer is we’re not doing well and Obama Lite pygmy Deval Patricks solution is price controls. NO FREAKING IMPACT ON HEALTH THERE FOLKS.

  346. “Now of course, we don’t know what he might have had written on his hand.”

    Better idea than writing your notes on the top of your shoes like Obama. 😆

  347. “I’ve watched Muffy comment here for a while, Muffy makes every attempt to be fair. You Sir are no Muffy. (hat tip to Lloyd Bentsen).”

    Yeah. I read your post to check on the standard of fair and reasoned. I am King Solomon compared to you.

    “You can’t handle the Truth.” (hat tip to Col. Nathan R. Jessep).

    R, you’re dishonest I take what you said as a compliment. Muffy, you should be ashamed. 😆

  348. DR, you’re right. They were stinking up the place. But it still sucked to have a rally stolen like that, especially for Chipper’s swan song.

    I was offered a seat but didn’t go since I coudn’t bring my son (mac daddy seat and would’ve broken his heart). Now I’m glad I didn’t. It reminded of some Sox games growing up when things got out of hand. I remember taking a girl to day game against the Yankees at Fenway in HS and we sat in the bleachers. Some asshole with a Yankees cap stood up in front and said “fuck all of you crybaby pussies.” He didn’t make it out of there under his own power. Good times. . . good times. 😆

  349. I hope Biden gloats his ass off about the huge improvement in “jobs.” Go get your desperate ass to Burger King and sell crap on Ebay (also a job) while government jobs financed by cash strapped governments go up and private sector jobs used to finance them go down 🙄

  350. Sure Rutherford. Only political junkies like you can make an educated choice in November. I should be trolling for “you people” quotes and dropping boom sticks on the daily chatter.

    Your hobby is as superficial as the Rabbit’s intense following of the pennant race. The difference is I can step back and see the game for what it is and you can not.

    You’re the one that has been saying for 6 months that Romney is inept. So I tune in and find him tearing some coward who hides behind class warfare, a pathetic media and a teleprompter into a new asshole. The guy is outed so bad that you are entertaining the fact that he suffered from altitude sickness. Holy shit man. You can’t make this stuff up.

    The fact is I’m an informed voter who doesn’t feel the need to play political dungeon and dragons. I don’t need a fake radio show. I don’t role play that I’m a warlock or Chris Mathews. I am well versed in the sad reality of this economy and geopolitical conditions.

    Romney is not the man you said he was. I suggest you back off it all or don’t vote in November.

  351. Tigre, that call was a travesty. My biggest fear is that Bud $elig will determine the one game wild card to be too big and he will go to a 5 game series, adding another team while turning the MLB into the NBA. What do you think of the new format? I think it’s awesome.

  352. Tex … maybe you aren’t keeping up … Romney has said he’s going to reduce taxes by 20%

    What 20%. Never heard that. Find me the proof so I can hear it myself.

    I suspect what you are talking about is personal taxes. Obama has talked about cutting corporate rates to 25%, though like everything else, he never followed up. Everything Obama says is a lie, because he’s a lie – the biggest one every foisted on a gullible public.

    And you’ll note – that’s not 20% – that’s almost 30% cut – the reason being, America now has the highest corporate tax rates in the industrialized world.

    Romney clearly said he would not drop the pool shared by the rich this very moment and what they pay now. I’ll hold him to it. That’s approximately 40% of all tax revenue.

    Spin it anyway you like. Your boy lost overwhelmingly. In a fair debate, Obama will lose every time, because he is incapable.

  353. You’re the one that has been saying for 6 months that Romney is inept. So I tune in and find him tearing some coward who hides behind class warfare, a pathetic media and a teleprompter into a new asshole. The guy is outed so bad that you are entertaining the fact that he suffered from altitude sickness. Holy shit man. You can’t make this stuff up.

    The fact is I’m an informed voter who doesn’t feel the need to play political dungeon and dragons. I don’t need a fake radio show. I don’t role play that I’m a warlock or Chris Mathews. I am well versed in the sad reality of this economy and geopolitical conditions.

    Romney is not the man you said he was. I suggest you back off it all or don’t vote in November.

    Beautifully put. Couldn’t have said it better.

  354. Rabbit,

    Think of the how vacuous the argument posed here since the debate. What was Obama’s problem?

    Obama didn’t attack the 47%. Obama didn’t bring up Romney’s tax shelters. Obama didn’t demand Romney’s tax returns. Romney lied. Romney cheated. Obama was gamed by the altitude. Obama was tired. The moderator lost control. Blah blah blah….

    Do you see anything in that argument that lends itself to an Obama idea of how to plug the gaping hole in the ship? How to move the country forward, as the lame Obama bumper sticker suggests? Do you see any grand ideas as promised, or even a simple one? There are none. The stimulus wasn’t big enough. 🙄

    It couldn’t possibly be that Romney is far more capable, more talented, more educated, more experienced, and more knowledgeable. Couldn’t be that Obama is unqualified. Our eyes and ears clearly deceived us Wednesday night.

    The Left is bankrupt. As bankrupt as they were in the days of Carter, only far more immoral, vile and vicious. They have no idea what they are doing. Trickle down government is right. Redistribution of wealth to buy a vote and feigning strength that doesn’t exist. It’s all they know and will ever know.

    The problem isn’t Obama. The problem is Rutherford and millions like him. Helpless, clueless, and specious.

  355. This debate was most likely the first time in Obama’s life that he was NOT the automatic recipient of Affirmative Action in any significant endeavor.

    And the results clearly showed what happened when he had to compete on an equal basis with his adversary.

    Seen in a comment this morning. So true.

  356. My point in posting the factcheck link was not that “Mitt lied.” If anything neither of them or both of them “lied.” I actually thought the factcheck article proved only one thing – it’s complicated. There’s usually more to it, that’s all.

    Romney presented his case in a favorable light with the confidence and optimism that his plan will work. It was proper of him – not to mention honest and more than a little bold – to put Big Bird on notice. If it’s not worth borrowing from China to pay for then it’s going to have to justify its existence. It was merely an example of his general intentions. He’s not hiding his cards. .

    Obama, while he spoke a good four minutes longer than Romney during the debate, offered no answers or decent rebuttals and in his finer moments resorted to a talking point or two that looked like even he didn’t believe in them anymore. Moreover, Obama doesn’t know the territory. Three days later and Obama STILL doesn’t have any answers. It makes me ill to hear Obama deliver his canned smartass cracks now that his tormentor is safely out of range. “Elmo better run.” That’s what Obama thinks of his followers. That they are that stupid. And evidently many of them are.

    What troubled me and prompted me to post the factcheck link in the first place is the way the campaigns unflinchingly make up their own facts. I watched MsNBC’s nightmare as it unfolded and in the immediate aftermath up through to now I see little difference between Ezra Klein and David Axelrod or Rachel Maddow and Stephanie Clutter. They are the liars here, if anyone is.

    Rabbit, I enjoyed #465. And Tigre, you don’t get nearly the respect that you deserve for your arguments here. They are great fun. Well, not for the other guy. 😆

  357. From the Romney campaign site:
    MITT’S PLAN
    Reducing and stabilizing federal spending is essential, but breathing life into the present anemic recovery will also require fixing the nation’s tax code to focus on jobs and growth. To repair the nation’s tax code, marginal rates must be brought down to stimulate entrepreneurship, job creation, and investment, while still raising the revenue needed to fund a smaller, smarter, simpler government. The principle of fairness must be preserved in federal tax and spending policy.

    Individual Taxes

    America’s individual tax code applies relatively high marginal tax rates on a narrow tax base. Those high rates discourage work and entrepreneurship, as well as savings and investment. With 54 percent of private sector workers employed outside of corporations, individual rates also define the incentives for job-creating businesses. Lower marginal tax rates secure for all Americans the economic gains from tax reform.

    Make permanent, across-the-board 20 percent cut in marginal rates
    Maintain current tax rates on interest, dividends, and capital gains
    Eliminate taxes for taxpayers with AGI below $200,000 on interest, dividends, and capital gains
    Eliminate the Death Tax
    Repeal the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT)
    Corporate Taxes

    The U.S. economy’s 35 percent corporate tax rate is among the highest in the industrial world, reducing the ability of our nation’s businesses to compete in the global economy and to invest and create jobs at home. By limiting investment and growth, the high rate of corporate tax also hurts U.S. wages.

    Cut the corporate rate to 25 percent
    Strengthen and make permanent the R&D tax credit
    Switch to a territorial tax system
    Repeal the corporate Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT)

  358. Muffy, the situation Mitt Romney had Wednesday wasn’t a lack of fact. He didn’t lie. It is complicated. How do you explain a concept of growth in 90 second soundbites? How do you explain the only way to balance the budget is through growth to an audience, half have no idea what you speak? What does the American public think helped to minimize the deficit in the late ’90s? How do you explain you can lower taxes, grow the market, and actually add to the tax revenue; not lower it?

    Tigre and I have spent hours trying to explain it to Rutherford, not a dumb man, and he still doesn’t get it.

    Romney had to overcome two large obstacles last Wednesday night, and that is what made his presentation skills so spectacular. First, like Obama, Romney had to present his case in short quips. That’s tough to do in 40 minutes.

    But Romney had a more difficult task that Obama never had to face. A false script that has been crafted by a media complicit for Obama who not only helped build Obama’s unearned reputation as gifted, but characterized Romney as some silver spooned, incapable, greed enriched, uncaring sociopath.

    Most of here knew that was outrageous and a distorted lie. That’s the very reason I’m so harsh on Rutherford – because it was an outrageous lie that Rutherford carried forth. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    Romney was neither moderate nor mean.

    Wednesday night was simple. Romney is far and away the more qualified individual. And Rutherford and the loons can’t accept that.

    It crushes their illusions where they had a blank Obama slate and could project their hysterical fantasies of some Superman on the white board.

  359. Just in case anyone cares the results look like this:
    Married filing jointly/widower:
    up to 17k income= 8%
    17-69k ……12%
    69-139 k….20%
    139-211K….22.4%
    211-379…..26.4
    379+…..28%
    Those that cry about disparity the now to Mitt breakdown is:
    35-28=7%
    33-26.4= 6.6%
    28-22.4=5.6%
    25-20= 5%
    15-12=3%
    10-8=2%

  360. And one last thing and this gels very well with what Muffy was saying earlier.
    Obama makes the 5 trillion dollar charge and the horror of it to US humanity. This assumes a number of things not the least of which is that government actually deserves your money and that Romneys other actions don’t mitigate let alone boost total economy.

  361. Alfie,

    Make permanent, across-the-board 20 percent cut in marginal rates
    Maintain current tax rates on interest, dividends, and capital gains
    Eliminate taxes for taxpayers with AGI below $200,000 on interest, dividends, and capital gains

    Thank you. I had not seen that. So the huge $5 trillion tax increase is the 20% cut? Well, let’s do the math.

    The federal government takes in $2.2 trillion in total tax revenue. So 20% of that is $440,000,000,000. And I’ll assume their numbers are over what? Ten years?

    First, 42% of federal revenue is individual income tax, the very part Obama speaks.

    2,200,000,000,000 x .20 x .42 = $184,800,000,000 x 10 years

    = $1,848,000,000,000 / $5,000,000,000,000 (the Obama claim)

    = 37% (of the Obama claim)

    So before I ever even consider loopholes, elimination of deductions, no growth, and every conceivable piece of bad news, even assuming the continued horrid Obama economy for ten years:

    I’m already 63% below their cries of destruction. 😈

    The way these people are capable of lying with straight face continues to astound the senses.

    Why are we worried about another $1,848 billion over ten years, when Obama was able to create that much U.S. debt in 15 months?

    According to these folks, debt had nothing to do with our downgrade. It was just a Republican obstructionist Congress that caused it.

  362. Estimates on the jobs numbers were 113,000 bringing the unemployment number down to 8.1% (or 8.0 I can’t remember). Actual numbers released were 114,000 added yet the resulting unemployment number dropped to 7.8%.

    Please share with the jury Muffy your expertise on how the BLS numbers are computed.

    Bottom line, these monthly numbers are ALWAYS estimates. For every month since January 2009, BLS has been the reliable source for the Obama opposition. Suddenly, they don’t come up with the “right” (in more than one way) answer and it’s a grand conspiracy.

    Muffy, I truly value your presence here but the closer we get to November, the more you resemble Tex in drag. And that’s not a good thing on so many levels.

    P.S. I can’t swear to this but the 114,000 number I believe comes from the payroll survey of the BLS while the 7.8% came from the household survey. Hence you’re comparing apples to oranges.

    P.P.S. Two of your comments went into moderation due to a typo in your email address. I rescued them earlier today.

  363. Tax rates not revenues. How is he lying about his intentions?

    Good question. I can’t speak to his intentions. Scroll down to the comment I’m about to make to Tex for more info.

  364. It focuses solely on the rate cuts which even partisan opponents acknowledge to be revenue neutral

    Wrong … their revenue neutrality comes at the expense of the middle class. Again, there are not enough loopholes to close to pay for the tax cuts for the rich.

  365. On healthcare Romneys pre-existing conditions clause is as good as it gets without a mandate.

    As good as it gets isn’t good enough. Romney does not help people with pre-existing conditions GET insurance. He helps them keep continuous coverage from the time they were not sick. Big difference.

  366. There are a number of points that FactCheck claims to be lies when in fact at worse they are exaggerations that are meant for political punch but whose nugget is true.
    Take the panel that is claimed to lead to rationing. FactCheck is all over that one saying no no no. The thing is ultimately (as Romney stated) a board that makes recommendations that must be eventually obeyed will impact the care you get.

    Wrong again. The fact check was very careful to point out where certain claims overstated the case vs outright lied. Yes, the panel will make recommendations that effect the care you get in a positive way … not in a way that leads to rationing.

    I personally have had multiple doctors order the same damn test to treat the same damn illness when a team approach (like that of Mayo Clinic) would have gotten one test with results shared with the entire team. These are exactly the kind of efficiencies the panel will be recommending, Health outcomes will improve at lower overall cost.

  367. LOL that dinner table video was simply weird. I couldn’t tell whether Daddy had lost his job, or Mommy was having a migraine or the kids were getting bullied at school. All I could tell was one damn depressed family.

  368. You’re the one that has been saying for 6 months that Romney is inept. So I tune in and find him tearing some coward …

    Yeah, during those six months I bothered to watch the man in action … didn’t need to write a blog or do a “fake radio show”. All I needed to do was watch.

    Rabbit, I’m so disappointed. I thought my sports analogy would appeal to you. 😉 OK, let me try an education analogy. If one of your students came to you and said he drew a conclusion from just one of ten different data points, wouldn’t you tell him it was scientifically unsound?

    Sorry dude… that is what you did.

  369. What 20%. Never heard that. Find me the proof so I can hear it myself.

    LOL you’re such a maroon.

    Let’s clear up this rhetorical trick of Romney’s. He says he won’t decrease the “tax burden” of the rich. In other words the rich will still pay the same (or higher) proportion of overall taxes even though their tax rate will go down (YES BY 20%).

    He claims he will do this by eliminating loopholes which he refuses to specify. Experts have already said there aren’t enough loopholes available to pay for this tax rate reduction without either increasing the deficit or increasing rates on the middle class.

    And just so we are crystal clear …. he is saying he will reduce rates BY 20% not TO 20%, so don’t try to play that semantic game on me.

  370. And while I am at it, this whole notion of “tax burden” or “proportion of contribution to overall revenue” is a canard. This is why the flat tax is inherently unfair. Make the numbers simple. When you earn $100.00 a year and a 10% tax leaves you with $90.00 you’re still in a whole lot more hurt than the millionaire who is left with $900,000.00.

  371. This debate was most likely the first time in Obama’s life that he was NOT the automatic recipient of Affirmative Action in any significant endeavor.

    And the results clearly showed what happened when he had to compete on an equal basis with his adversary.

    Wish you could point me to that comment Tex. Was it on Tulsa World by some Okie racist or from someone “reputable”.

    Racism Archie. And you know what? It’s comments like that which will make me take the November 6, NYT with the headline “Obama wins second term”, fly down to Oklahoma, track you down, roll up the paper, and shove it up your ass.

    P.S. Well of course I won’t but it sure felt damn good saying it. Funny … my Mom used to tell me that one of the advantages of being disabled was I didn’t need to engage in a lot of foolish macho swagger. 😆

  372. Excellent video, Tigre. I know many of them.

    LOL!!!! Let me get this straight … Tex you know many families like the one in Tigre’s video? Damn man …. that explains a lot! You need to hang out with a happier crowd! 😆

  373. Muffy, I DO give Romney credit for firing Big Bird. We do live in a time when some tough truths have to be told to the American people.

    Now of course, we won’t discuss the fact that Big Bird and Jim Lehrer take up .000000001% of the federal budget but I guess every little bit helps.

    As for your “rooting” for Rabbit and Tigre … like I said earlier, Tex-in-a-dress. Rabbit’s first comment about Romney’s one debate was asinine and his defense just made him look all the more stupid. Rabbit knows it but his pride won’t let him fess up. So he attacks my “fake radio show”. Yup, really helped his point.

    FWIW, Rabbit’s contributions usually are extremely intelligent. That is one reason I was so surprised by the dumb Romney comment.

    As for Tigre, he’s an honorary brotha so I can’t say anything against him. I’m in the tank for soul brothers Obama and Tigre. 🙂

  374. “Estimates on the jobs numbers were 113,000 bringing the unemployment number down to 8.1% (or 8.0 I can’t remember). Actual numbers released were 114,000 added yet the resulting unemployment number dropped to 7.8%.

    Please share with the jury Muffy your expertise on how the BLS numbers are computed. “

    I don’t know any more than what I posted. I’m not even sure what BLS stands for. I hadn’t seen that anyone mentioned the numbers that were being questioned and why. I had heard that since the estimates were so close on the # of jobs added – why had the rate been so off of what the estimated 113,00 would have translated into? I was on my phone, which is hard to navigate and search for what had already been said regarding the jobs numbers.

    But if the net result of the jobs report is that Obama can now say that we are going in the right direction, well, that’s a bit of a downgrade in everybody’s expectations, isn’t it? I mean, OK, hip hip hooray. I know I’m working twice as hard for 1/3 the money I was making last year at this time. One third. And I’m grateful. Let the good times roll.

    ”Muffy, I truly value your presence here but the closer we get to November, the more you resemble Tex in drag. And that’s not a good thing on so many levels.”

    Well thanks. First of all, that’s not exactly an insult to my way of thinking. I adore Tex. However, I don’t think you’re giving Tex his due when you say that, but then – you never do. Second, you’re way overreacting to my pointing to the numbers that I’d heard on the news that people were saying didn’t add up. I actually expected one of these guys to clear it up. Third, well, that one is better left unsaid.

    Peace.

  375. Racism Archie. And you know what? It’s comments like that which will make me take the November 6, NYT with the headline “Obama wins second term”, fly down to Oklahoma, track you down, roll up the paper, and shove it up your ass.

    Speaking of canards, the ever predictable race card when somebody nails Obama’s ass to the wall.

    Racism. Weak. 😆

    Rutherford, did you happen to note I already exposed your libbie math as horseshit even taking the 20%? Notice you skipped right on by that one. 😀

    As always. Why is it you always want to comment on an opinion, but when presented with the facts, you get real loose with “reading everything.”

    You’re almost as transparent as TOTUS.

  376. And while I am at it, this whole notion of “tax burden” or “proportion of contribution to overall revenue” is a canard. This is why the flat tax is inherently unfair. Make the numbers simple. When you earn $100.00 a year and a 10% tax leaves you with $90.00 you’re still in a whole lot more hurt than the millionaire who is left with $900,000.00.

    Boy. What a dolt. Hey dummy. The proposal (last one I saw) left the first $30,000 untouched and tax free. So your poor, poor canard become crapnard.

    Try it this way using your rate:

    Somebody makes $1,000,000 – $97,000
    Somebody makes $100,000 – $7,000
    Somebody makes $40,000 – $1,000
    Somebody makes $100 – $0

    Now I would call that incredibly fair. Unless you’re a lib.

  377. Well, my curiosity got the best of me and I had to search out the schedule of debates. I didn’t realize they were dragging this dog and pony show out for three weeks. I should have known. For some reason I thought we’d get these knocked out in a week’s time. My bad. This way it keeps up the bantering back and forth over trivial he said she said bullshit.

    I am so disillusioned with this nation right now. How could we go from such great beginnings and potential to this bloviated ignorant pissy-assed, classless, clueless, mind-dribbling mass of worthless, rude, argumentative, opportunistic, hellbent, incompassionate zombieland? And with WMDs to boot! 😈 You can’t see us as evil? Please step back and get a comprehensive view.

    I realize it was by design. What we’re witnessing now is our last hurrah and we are all contributors in our demise.

  378. Damn Tigre, that was beautiful. A one man wrecking crew.

    Andrea Mitchell is an Obama whore with her crusty, wrinkled lips glued to Obama’s ass. I love Sununu because he insults the media as much as he insults Obama’s failed record in the process.

    That is a model for how every Republican should treat every media member when being interviewed. Dismantle their argument at the same time pissing on their leg.

    The first minute, you could have substituted the word Rutherford for Obama and it would have been equally fitting.

  379. So-called presidential debates are well-rehearsed, prescripted theater. Theater of the absurd best describes them.

    Even some mainstream media were underwhelmed. At least one was honest as far as his editors let him. London Guardian contributor Charles Ferguson headlined “America’s duopoly of money in politics and manipulation of public opinion,” saying: “Behind the divisiveness lies a deeper bipartisan consensus in which donors own democracy and there are no votes (for) reform.”

    So very true. Dumb and dumber sells.

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/flim-flam-substitutes-the-obama-romney-election-debate/

  380. Hot Air About that Jobs Report by Matt Vespa, discusses how the jobs reports are made. “You told the truth, but you’re still a liar” fits,

    Rutherford, we traveled through the Clinton surplus before. End of Cold War bonus, Newt and the Republican majority, the dot com bubble, the housing bubble, the welfare for work law, and Bill’s triangulation gave us the surplus.

    A rattle snake bit Mitt last summer. After three days of agony, the snake died.

  381. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta warned Saturday that exchange artillery fire between Syria and Turkey could escalate and impact neighboring countries.

    He added that the U.S. is doing what it can diplomatically to make its concern known about the burgeoning conflict, according to the Associated Press.

    Part of a presser Panetta had

  382. Rutherford, and I think newt thought my writing that some of the red states might unite with Canada if our destinies turned in a bad direction was rather extreme..

    Venus, including Lombardy is protesting and pressuring the Italian government to grant them independence.The indebted central government is draining money from their economy.

  383. One time out of a hundred, the true figure will be much different than the reported figure. One time out of a hundred for a monthly survey means about once every eight years. What seems to have occurred with the September household survey is the one time in a hundred. The last time the household survey showed such a huge jump in employment was in 1983 during the Reagan-era economic boom. Today’s economy does not look much like the Reagan boom.

    http://blog.heritage.org/2012/10/05/morning-bell-anemic-job-growth-continues/?roi=echo3-13335833592-9889295-94dc65a0c9b9edc242ef3a247847c962&utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Morning%2BBell

  384. Speaking of canards, the ever predictable race card when somebody nails Obama’s ass to the wall.

    You lost me. You post a quote calling Obama an Affirmative Action beneficiary and I’m playing the race card? Sometimes I feel I am in an Ionesco absurdist play.

    BTW, I’m a bit slow … what’s the first T in TOTUS?

  385. How did Bill Clinton “balance” the budget?

    I haven’t the foggiest. I just use it as a “talking point”. 🙂 During the 90’s I was climbing the corporate ladder and consuming lots of porn. It’s all a haze to me now. 😐 My primary political memories from then are the Fleetwood Mac inauguration balls and his getting impeached for a blow job.

  386. That ain’t much of a swagger. Well, I’ll give you a hint.

    It was called in your circles “Trickle Down Economics” and controlling expenses, accompanied by a massive influx of capital gains taxes for “revenue”, called taxes in my circles.

    More taxpayers in high wage jobs, more tax dollars. Exactly what Romney has proposed.

    That’s why I am always humored by Obama calling on Bill Clinton to save him, when Clinton simply adopted the economic policies of Ronald Reagan.

    Remember, “The Days of Big Government Are Over

  387. “I won’t hold my breath for the big apology.” – Tex

    Oh c’mon. A lone outpost in what I have to guess is one of the most heavily fuel-taxed states in the nation. I assumed you meant a national average. And I believe you said this summer. It ain’t summer no more.

    But since you went through the trouble to dig it up, I’ll offer one of my favorite cinematic apologies in lieu. 🙂

  388. Alfie @ 407,

    I’ll give you Dodd-Frank. I’m sure Mitt could live with some of what’s in there, but on his health care plan, he either lied or misspoke. After the debate, his own campaign rep in the spin room disavowed what he said about Obamacare.

    As for PBS, the money they get from the government is critical to their operation, but makes almost no difference in the debt and/or deficit numbers. The entire amount would only run the federal government for a couple of hours.

  389. R – re: flat tax. Good analogy, I think. We need more engineers – whose goal is solving problems – in the fed govt, not “economists,” whatever that is, whose main goal is to promote an ideology.

    The “problem” – if you can call it a problem – with compounding is that money-makes-money, and the curve is exponential, not linear, so the more money you make, the more you have..

    A simple progressive tax table would work quite nicely, with higher brackets paying more percentage tax. The beauty of an exponential curve is that taxes would be very low until well beyond “middle class.”

    They key point would be that the curve has to be slid to the left enough that it does not de-incentivise those very people who make the economy go – the rich.

    Remember, R – the Left can get what it wants if it stops killing the goose that lays the golden egg through the agency of class envy. Never in my life, and I’d wager yours, has either of us been given a job by a poor man. It’s always a rich one. Remember that when you are tempted to eat the rich.

    Costa Rica: best place to expatriate these days, possibly the Dutch Antilles as well. Just file it away… I’ll keep you up on my research if you want to join me.

  390. Rutherford, once again, you are unwittingly repeating a lie I have called out before. Clinton was NOT impeached because of a sex act. He was impeached for obstruction of justice and for lying under oath. He lost his license to practice law and had we done what he did, we would have served time.We ought not pollute our history with more misconceptions than we already have.

    Costa Rica or the Dutch Antililies sound fine, but how would they react to a sudden influx of immigrants/ Could their economies handle the disruption, and would they treat us A as we and western Europe treat refugees?

  391. Thor, that will have to do. Terrible movie but there were some funny lines.

    I’m sorry I missed the date by ten days, being fall and all. 😳 That “lone outpost” is the most populated county in the U.S. by the way.

    So what do you think is going to happen to gas prices when we start blockading the Straight of Hormuz? I’ll expect more than John Cleese as apology when you see $6.00 in Spokane.

    If I were you, I’d start building the windmill before winter sets in.

  392. I very seldom watch those talking head shows on Sunday Morning, but I was done early today and watched part of ‘Meet the Press.’ What an utter waste of time. Of course, that’s my specialty these days – wasting time.

    I keep hearing these liars from the Left (Hillary Rosen? WTH is she qualified to speak about – an obese lezzie buffoon?) talk about Romney morphing on stage into a “moderate.” 😆

    How so Libbies? I sure didn’t hear anything moderate the other night from Romney. That was about as close to Reagan as anything I’ve heard in 20 years.

    Constitution, small gov’t, free enterprise.

    Can’t you stooges dream up a better line than Romney turning moderate? How about “extreme” or “radical?” That’s your two boilerplate models. You sound so less desperate when you revert back to extreme or radical.

  393. Personally this conversation the Leftists are having about Romney just smacks of panic and desperation. There is a good side to this however. The Left, known for being sheep and accepting whatever the media tells them at face value, if they want to paint him as a moderate, or a social Republican, let them. This will give them the excuse they need to not cast a Messiah vote come Nov.

    I took a moment to read Rutherford’s titled post, despite my promise to myself not to bother. The title is “Why I Am Voting for Barack Hussein Obama.” Now to me the title suggests that he is going to list qualities/actions/deeds about his Messiah to justify the vote. Instead we get another tired attack of lies on Republicans. So I read it a second time to see if I was missing anything. I think it is worthy of note and very telling that Rutherford was not able to dedicate a single paragraph of that post for reasons to support his Messiah, just why not to vote for Romney.

    I am happy to report that my mid 70’s neighbor watched the debate with me last night that I had recorded on my DVR. This is a man who fought in the Vietnam war and who has for most of his adult life blamed the Republican party for putting him there. After we got to talking about the economy and oil and how it effects every other aspect of the economy, and how it made no sense for Obama to go so far out of his way to prevent further production and to make us more dependent on the middle east. We talked about the $40 billion being printed every month, and after about the 5th time explaining how this is robbing the middle class and the poor, he got it. Bottom line, the man who has been calling me Adolf for the past 6 months for voting Republican, changed sides. That is how you win elections, changing one ignorant vote at a time.

  394. Noah, I laughed at Rutherford’s post for the same reason.

    One of my apolitical brothers called me up an hour ago and said he is voting for Romney after watching the debate. He wasn’t going to vote before that.

    Rutherford acts like the debate was just another day, although an unsuccessful one, for the Obama campaign. Just one bad loss in a long season of games. I don’t see it that way. Play off games are bigger then preseason distractions.

    I think Tex underestimates the debate ratings. They still have the potential to change an election. I heard the kids in the hallways at work talking about the debate. It was the conversation on the softball diamond. If Obama continues to be outed as a fraud, I think he might lose.

    I can’t wait until Biden brags about the utter bull shit jobs report. That will be a big mistake.

  395. But what about Romney’s tax returns? The tax returns!!!!!! All of this is designed to keep us from looking at his tax returns!!!!!!

  396. I think Tex underestimates the debate ratings.

    I may have, Rabbit. When almost 70,000,000 tune in to watch the fraud get taken to the woodshed, it may have been more influential than I first thought. I still think these Libs are stunned, but for all the wrong reasons. They think Obama had a “bad” night. They don’t understand that wasn’t a “bad” night. That was Obama meeting a vastly superior opponent for the first time in his life.

    But I would suggest Romney have to do it to once again to completely convince American that Obama is a mendacious used car salesman in a hounds tooth jacket.

    Given a level playing field, and Obama will get his ass kicked again. Throw it into these town forum settings, and you watch. These media shits will toss in every deviant to muddy the waters. It’s going to be much tougher to sell a thorough annihilation where we talk about “feelings” and sob stories for 90 minutes.

    America seems to learn very slowly. Throw in the ballot stuffing in the inner city, the voter fraud, the mindless get out the vote crowd, the double counting? I expect Romney has to win by 5-7% to win in a tight one.

    Watching that debate, it reminded me when I was a young hot shot not too long out of college, and thought I was pretty damn smart. I turned in what I thought was a masterpiece to my boss, best boss I ever had, that contained an executive summary.

    The old man schooled me about it’s inadequacy – but was nice about it. He could have kicked my ass, but instead used it as a teaching tool. Learned a good lesson what 35 years of executive experience means.

    Do these libs have any idea what kind of talent walks around in these high paid consulting companies? I do. This is business medical school. And Romney was running the show.

    I guarantee you the man is smart. That’s how we was popping out all those facts. He did it for a living for 25 years.

  397. But what about Romney’s tax returns? The tax returns!!!!!! All of this is designed to keep us from looking at his tax returns!!!!!!

    SNICKER…,.

    Oh, you can guarantee Obama is going to be trotting out the MSNBC talking points in this one. It’s all he’s got. Those “razor sharp” Chris Matthews talking points.

    And Osama!!!!

  398. Oh we all noticed it. Look at Rutherford’s first paragraph and look for where he dispelled it.

    (I’ll save you the time. He just proves his critics right without recognizing the irony).

    James, Rutherford knows the reason for the impeachment. He’ll just keep repeating that line over and over. Like Romney’s kids. 😆

  399. Still think there is a difference between Republican and Democrat policicies, I see. Can’t bother to see that they BOTH work for the same criminal mob? Too bad. A little research can go a long way in dispelling that fantasy. Of course, one has to decide to accept truth no matter if it opposes one’s long held notions.

    I don’t understand how the conservatives are saying O is anti-business or anti-privatization or isn’t allowing more drilling for oil or the keystone pipeline. It’s lies. O’s a corporate shill as much as Rmoney is. Recently the corporatocracy claimed eminent domain and are using a foreign company to cut a clear path through peoples’ private property in Texas to install that pipeline from Canada to the gulf coast. Foreign interests more and more are getting green lighted to have their way with us. It’s all over, from parking meters to farming.

    While we consume ourselves with trivial pursuits, I was proud to learn of Code Pink standing in for justice in Pakistan. Especially since others of supposed “Christian” or humanitarian purpose refuse and being we have become the symbol of injustice to the rest of the world. I know most supposed conservatives here mock them along with other activist groups and many actually think drones ultimately are a good and proper thing. Delusions of grandeur.

    If corporations are people is true, why do corporations get to overrun people in every instance? Why does Monsanto get their way over any free market enterprise and people? Why is it illegal to save and plant heirloom seed? Why does big Pharma have exclusive right over our prescription medicines? People are being marginalized all over the world in favor of corporate interest. They have been all along, it is just now more in your face, especially here in America. Makes me angry.

  400. I guarantee you the man is smart. That’s how we was popping out all those facts.

    Does the revisionism begin when things enter or leave your conscience? Just curious. Muffy’s link showed most of those ‘facts’ are LIES. Popping out lies, bub. Smart doesn’t mean truthful.

  401. Well Mr. Pink,

    I don’t believe that is what Muffy’s link said at all. That’s the revisionist demon in your head speaking. The links said the issues complex. That rules you out.

    Neither did 80% of the 67MM who actually who watched it. That would exclude you, since the IRS confiscated your B&W rabbit ears for tax evasion.

  402. I guess I’m going to have to start attacking Tex’s family now (which I have thus far NOT stooped to) since he can’t harm me with his childish and unfounded insults.

    I generally don’t make threats. It’s not my style. But just so you know, she read some of your comments the other night and it took some serious calming to get her to not go through with her scheme to get you back. She has one of those “hair trigger” tempers that you are so familiar with. I’ll just say she’s pretty well connected in your neck of the woods and that you’re not as anonymous as you may like to think.

  403. I don’t believe that is what Muffy’s link said at all.

    I know YOU don’t, but then comprehension is NOT one of your strong points. Anyone with the propensity to be more objective can read the word ‘lie’ and know what it means.

  404. But just so you know, she read some of your comments the other night and it took some serious calming to get her to not go through with her scheme to get you back. She has one of those “hair trigger” tempers that you are so familiar with. I’ll just say she’s pretty well connected in your neck of the woods and that you’re not as anonymous as you may like to think.

    Good. I’m glad I added to the misery of the existence of living with an American hating prick like you. Show her the picture I just posted, and tell her I said, “she can kiss my ass.”

    Because when you do, I’m going to find out exactly who you are without even the hassle of looking.

  405. thor 520
    You are the first from the left to ever tell me :

    As for PBS, the money they get from the government is critical to their operation,

    Your follow through is irrelevant and weak. If we flesh out every “rounding error” line item in the federal budget we save real money.
    I’ll make you the deal I’m willing to make with anyone of any political affiliation.
    Give me two years of government NOT FUNDING a number of things like,NEA,PBS/CPB, etc and if people really miss it we vote to restore the cuts line by line.

  406. Tex, I didn’t say gas would NEVER hit $6.00. I understand that we are not running out of oil, we are running out of cheap oil, on this continent anyway. In Saudi Arabia you kick sand and oil comes out. In this part of the world, you have to either drill permafrost, squeeze rock, boil tar or punch holes under hundreds of feet of seawater to get the goods. But you made the prediction it would hit $6.00 this summer and that would injure Obama. It’s not summer and its not prevalent. By lone outpost, I meant that it was an oddity, outside two standard deviations.

    Perhaps you would have preferred Otto’s apology, where Kline beats the crap out of Cleese and then apologizes. 🙂

  407. Because when you do, I’m going to find out exactly who you are without even the hassle of looking.

    There’s enough people on this board that already who know who I am. It’s no big mystery.

  408. Thor, And you will remember I based my assumptions on the fact I thought Israel would hit Iran this summer. Mea culpa. And since I have a lot more faith in Israel’s intelligence than ours, I can probably safely assume that Iran isn’t as far along in development of fissile material as we were led to believe earlier this year. Mea culpa.

    A couple of refinery fires will do the trick instead. 🙂 I hadn’t taken into account, the Obama economy kicking in. Steven Chu wanted $8.00 gas. Now we might get it without even having to worry about Mahmoud.

    Frankly, like the inevitable stock market tanking, I’m stunned that Israel hasn’t fried Mahmoud by now. My timing was a guess, and I’ll admit that in this case, it hasn’t happened when I thought. I frankly thought there was no way in hell America could be stupid enough to elect an utter failure and fraud for President a second time around either. We all have our bubbles, I suppose.

    Actually, the Saudi Arabia kicking the dirt is somewhat of a myth. That may have held 20 years ago in their largest fields, but many of Aramco reserves are becoming depleted without technological marvels. But you would be right in comparison to the difficulty of obtaining N.A. crude as comparison.

    Aramco oil is so sought not so much because of the ease, but the quality and the logistics. I’m not sure what the quality rating now, but half of it used to be considered light, low sulfur crude and commands a better price which is more profitable to refine.

  409. “Your follow through is irrelevant and weak. If we flesh out every “rounding error” line item in the federal budget we save real money.” – Alfie

    No, it’s exactly the point. The point wasn’t that the number was small, it was that it is a great investment on return, and certainly not driving the deficit. Romney is paying lip service with a solution that sounds good but does nothing. PBS programming is used in schools and pre-schools and day cares. Wishbone and Bill Nye are great ambassadors to literature and science. The Nightly Business Report offers a good roundup and an in-depth interview with a leading CEO almost every night. The Mclaughlin Group offers a round table with voices as diverse as Pat Buchanan and Eleanor Clift. I challenge you to find a science program more engaging than NOVA. These programs, for the most part, started out locally, not in some behemoth bureaucracy. Grants from the government give a fiscal foundation from which contributions can be solicited from viewers and corporations alike. This is a wonderful example of how things CAN work in this country when we bring taxpayer money, private money, American creativity and lots and lots of freedom together. Instead of blaming PBS, Romney should be using it as a template.

    PBS is not the rounding error he should be targeting. Leave Big Bird alone and go after $1000 hammers and congressional perks. It would be a start, at least.

  410. ” I’ll just say she’s pretty well connected in your neck of the woods and that you’re not as anonymous as you may like” poolman

    Man it must be a nauseating site to watch you hold court in the living room, your ignorant family nodding in agreement with the great truth seeking patriarch, poolman.

  411. “Actually, the Saudi Arabia kicking the dirt is somewhat of a myth. That may have held 20 years ago in their largest fields, but many of Aramco reserves are becoming depleted without technological marvels.” Tex

    Isn’t the other thing that sets SA apart from other oil producers in the Middle East is that they can effectively manipulate production without a cost penalty? Other countries just pump whether demand is high or low, bloating inventories if necessary. But SA can actually control the point of production without huge restart costs. Or is that a myth too?

    Why was MTP a waste of time? (I hardly ever watch it either) Were they talking about the job numbers instead of the debates?

  412. There’s enough people on this board that already who know who I am. It’s no big mystery.

    This is the second time you have threatened me, Poolman. I actually made for a time an effort to ignore you and your abject stupidity that must have gone unnoticed. But you always want to make it personal and I can’t seem to shake you, so I comply.

    As you can tell, you really shook me up the first time as I cowered under duress of threat. I thought even you might be smart enough to understand when I told you the first time, “I wouldn’t do that if I were you.” I guess I was wrong.

    There are five people who post on this very board who know my name too. What do you hope to find? I’m so frightened of “being exposed”, I actually use my own name in exchange.

    See, I would not do that even to scum like you – unless you force me to. So let me be real specific this time since it didn’t sink in. You pass this on to hair trigger momma.

    Everything about you or related to you will become a known quantity. Everything money can legally buy and trace down with assistance. Everything. Smile, your on candid camera.

    So I would suggest you might want to think this threat of yours through before you act impulsively. Because I can promise you, this is going to be one time your mouth has some real serious consequences, prick. You will walk away with a lot more than your tail stuck between your legs.

    This is the last warning you get.

  413. Believing the Republicans were responsible for the Vietnam War is like liberals regarding Obama as a more fit president than Romney.

    Today’s Omaha World Herald endorses Romney with a good summary of Obama’s failures. I’m sure it is on their web site. The liberals here should read it.

    Another writer noted that Bush bombed his first debate with Kerry, but he won the election because voters liked him better. If the other debates continue to show a Republican ticket image at variance from the Democrats, and press carictures Romney may win.

  414. I watch most of the PBS shows thor mentioned. According to the Omaha World Herald they get about 12% of their budget spending from the federal government,. Big Bird through product sales etc. is richer than Mitt Romney.

  415. Why was MTP a waste of time? (I hardly ever watch it either) Were they talking about the job numbers instead of the debates?

    Nah. It was the typical justifications from both sides, piled on with a steaming pile. Republicans lied, people died. Something I had heard a million times before. Let’s have a couple of debates and vote. It’s time to get it over with – even a hard egg like me is tired of the give and take.

    But SA can actually control the point of production without huge restart costs. Or is that a myth too?

    I don’t know if I can fairly answer that. I’m not sure I entirely understand the question. You mean do the Sauds have more influence than other OPEC nations?

    I generally think start up costs more specific to downstream than upstream operations.

  416. ” ‘Dora the Explorer’ is the kind of morning children’s show that epitomizes public television. It’s gentle, funny, educational and culturally sensitive. Kids gobble it up. But “Dora” isn’t produced or aired by PBS. If it were, it would cost tens of millions of dollars and become the subject of a thousand pledge breaks that might just help it to break even. “Dora,” by contrast, is produced by and aired on Nickelodeon, and the show is seen by twice as many kids as PBS can muster. Not only that, in its 10 years on the air, thanks to product licensing, it has earned its parent company many millions of dollars, not even counting money the show generates through advertising.

    http://bostonherald.com/news/opinion/op_ed/view/20100829educational_dora_has_lesson_for_pbs

  417. I would not describe using quotation marks on a word and saying that the word can be read and people know what it means when the word never appears in the article in the first place – as objective.

  418. I am not sure why my neighbor blames the Republicans for Vietnam. He was one of those guys who got to liking Vietnam a little too much. He spent 6 years after the war getting talked down before they would release him back into society. He ended up getting prosecuted for manslaughter in a bar fight and spent 8 years in prison. Even at the age of 70+ I tend to err on the side of caution with this guy. Great neighbor and stand up guy, but you never know.

    I found this article rather disturbing.

    http://www.westernjournalism.com/will-obama-betray-the-u-s-in-october-surprise-deal-with-iran/

  419. R, you don’t get the ad? Figures.

    Dumb. Of course I “get” the ad. That doesn’t mean it’s a good or effective ad. The only visual clue we get is the look on the faces of the family. Notice they’re gathered around the table in what appears to be a nice home, eating a full meal. If it weren’t for the faces (no dialog) I’d have no idea they have a problem at all.

    So yeah I GET the ad … and it sucks.

  420. 🙄 Whatever R.

    Can’t you see? No one is paying for Mom’s birth control. . . 😆

    I’m guessing you need granny being wheeled off a cliff to be affected.

  421. I thought she was wheeled off the cliff? With the denial letter from the 15 member death panel in hand and Obama’s foot in the back of her wheelchair pushing her off.

  422. “Ideologies aren’t all that important. What’s important is psychology.

    The Democratic constituency is just like a herd of cows. All you have to do is lay out enough silage and they come running. That’s why I became an operative working with Democrats. With Democrats all you have to do is make a lot of noise, lay out the hay, and be ready to use the ole cattle prod in case a few want to bolt the herd.

    Eighty percent of the people who call themselves Democrats don’t have a clue as to political reality. What amazes me is that you could take a group of people who are hard workers and convince them that they should support social programs that were the exact opposite of their own personal convictions. Put a little fear here and there and you can get people to vote any way you want.

    The voter is basically dumb and lazy. The reason I became a Democratic operative instead of a Republican was because there were more Democrats that didn’t have a clue than there were Republicans.

    Truth is relative. Truth is what you can make the voter believe is the truth. If you’re smart enough, truth is what you make the voter think it is. That’s why I’m a Democrat. I can make the Democratic voters think whatever I want them to.”

    James Carville 😆

    http://www.quotesdaddy.com/author/james%20carville

  423. James Carvill’s statement dovetails with Betsy’s Page. She quoted Byron York and a former Harvard classmate. They conclude that Obma is a cowardly bully.

    Carvill’s reference to cattle fits the reaction of many Democrats to the truth or people who defend their versions of the truth. Actress Stacy Dash tweeted that she supports Romney, and several people advised her to kill herself. Other Democrats are keying cars with Romney bumper stickers. Republicans may do the same things, but more Democrats seem to be diseased. They are macro fat grannies.

    “I guess I would expect a democrat to tell a black person to commit suicide because from what I’ve seen in the past 35 years, democrats seem to specialize in death and making surer that blacks have 101 ways to kill themselves.

    signed an ex slave of the democratic plantation.”

    Someone else wrote “…who cares about history when we have the cool president that we would want to PARTY with!”

    Rutherford mentioned “What’s the Matter with Kansas” a while back. Conversley, “What’s the Matter with Rutherford?”

  424. How any adult of sound mind can vote for this current President after viewing (see below) this grossly incompetent record, especially a campaign promise to “halve the deficit”, would demonstrate a voter that not only doesn’t care about the country, but is only driven by reactionary, ideological instinct and demagoguery.

    Obama’s voters are as flawed as this current President – and equally as fatuous.

  425. I saw that. I think it’s right, and it explains why Rutherford is getting beat down with the lame efforts to explain his undying allegiance to The One.

    Nothing about his record, nothing about his “vision,” nothing about his “plan.” Everything focused on offering a narrative about how “eeeevil” Romney is. This can only work when the media’s love affair with our celebrity president and false narrative about Romney’s character continues — unexposed.

    Rutherford’s post is the perfect example of why the debate has proven so disheartening to the left. Their only card was trumped. . . well other than the race card Sharpton’s visit to VA is intended to replenish. Romney personally and his plan doesn’t meet the cartoonish propaganda version proffered by the Obama campaign and LSM (one-in-the-same).

    Whoops.

    As I said earlier, kind of odd to notice only now when the curtain has been pulled back for nearly four years.

  426. Isn’t that the truth, Tigre.

    Obama’s plan for the next four years is…
    ….

    ..
    .
    Blame Bush for the economy and the ballooning deficit, duck hook and slice while the middle east burns, and increase the food stamp rolls. If I’m wrong libbies, point me toward the big plan for recovery.

    Obama’s plan for reelection was to frame Romney as something between an unemphatic Gordan Gekko, Dr. Kevorkian and Bernie Madoff. And for a time that was successful because that is how clueless most of America really is, and 90% of the media is in the tank for Bammy. I couldn’t believe it would work but it did.

    If you ask me, the greatest accomplishment of the first debate wasn’t that Obama was exposed as ordinary and stale with a decimating record. If you didn’t recognize that by now, you really without hope and without sense.

    It was that in 90 minutes, Romney blew a hole through this popular character portrayed by the useful idiots of the Left of uncaring, unsympathetic and incompetent.

    Think about how successful Obama has been in transforming America, Tigre. He’s lowered expectations and exceptionalism so successfully, we now celebrate the creation of hundreds of thousands of part-time, low paying jobs as real progress.

    I concede the Change, but where’s the Hope from this generation we had all been waiting for?

  427. Amen. And they scream “lies. . . all lies. . . and it was the altitude. . . and Jim Leherer. . . blah blah blah.

    I don’t think anything that is the nature of a fact will change Rutherford’s slavish devotion, which kind of explains why the debate proved so devatsting. If his opinions were based on facts he would have been voting Republican a long time ago.

    As for the FP assault, the incompetence and the tsunami of lies and the support for radical islamists should be rammed up Obama’s ass too. Morsi wants the Blind Sheik freed and Obama wants to forgive $1 billion in debt and give them another $450 million. Make him ‘splain that in prime time without a teleprompter, and Obama will once again be exposed as the not very bright empty suit poser he has always been.

    The only way to digest media reports like the ones we’re reading and still claim Obama’s foreign policy is a success is denial or self-deception. Incredibly the left still thinks epic cluster fuck disasters are proof of Obama’s genius.

    Let’s face it. Support for Obama among educated whites is a matter of cultural affinity for and perceived moral superiority of liberals and their policies, and aversion to and perceived moral inferiority of conservatives and their policies. The bien pensants are for Obama.

    The Obamaphone lady or the people the Howard Stern show interviewed are perfect analogs to educated whites. Truth is the so-called intellectual crowd that supports Obama is every bit as gullible, credulous, ignorant and blind as those folks, the difference being the people mocked in the videos don’t claim to be morally and intellectually superior while they’re doing it.

    The little old lady living in the trailer who sent Jim Bakker a “little extry” when he got caught with Jessica Hahn is the intellectual equivalent of the people who called Hillary the smartest woman in America, the feminists who trashed the victims of Clinton’s serial sexual abuse, and the reporters who called Obama the most intelligent president since Jefferson.

    Truth is Obama’s a rather dim bulb who only fools those who want to be fooled. When he’s off prompter he makes Bush sound like Demosthenes. Whatever objective criterion is chosen, a large collection of refuting facts can be marshaled to show that conservative policies are better for all the people liberals claim they want to help. Poor people and minorities did better under Reagan than under Obama. Therefore the obvious moral choice for those who actually care about the less fortunate is Obama. But with liberals it’s not results that count, it’s the honorable or dishonorable intention, as measured by baseless self-serving claims and knowingly false accusations. The wake-up call is long overdue.

  428. Thor, you’re right.

    What will be said in response? Probably that the assumption that Oblamo is not responsible for any of the 2009 budget deficit created by the stimulus bill.

    Of course Oblamo didn’t cut the “deficit” in half, did he?

    And how about that debt?

  429. The independently owned website Obama.com, which steers users to the president’s campaign donation website, gets most of its traffic from foreign countries, raising questions about the legality of tens of millions of small dollar donations to the campaign, according to a new report.

    The Government Accountability Institute today released details of an eight-month probe into fundraising by the presidential candidates and all House and Senate candidates that also shows that the president’s outreach and fundraising have targeted websites in Chinese, Arabic, Thai, and Korean. Generally, donations from foreign nations are illegal.

    http://washingtonexaminer.com/report-obama.com-solicits-foreign-contributions-for-prez/article/2510096#.UHMJdVEpqy6

  430. I laughed at Rutherford’s post for the same reason.

    The only one deserving ridicule Rabbit is you. I’ve hit you with not one but two dead on analogies for why your sudden love-fest with Romney based on one good night is preposterous. You have not addressed either analogy. The reason: because you know you sound like some dumb blonde neophyte. You have the gall to make fun of Sensico when you lay the egg “OMG! Romney was so good that night. I’ve never seen him perform before and I have absolutely no idea what I’m talking about but oooo ooo oooo he was so dreamy on that stage that ONE Wednesday night when I bothered to actually tune in.”

    You need to drop the topic Rabbit. I’ve always considered you one of the most, if not THE most intelligent of the posters here but your insistence on backing this one night stand love affair makes you look as vapid as Obama did in that debate.

  431. Rutherford, you are hardly qualified to talk about your own opinion (as it is given to you by the media) let alone anyone elses. You wrote an entire post on your God and you could not devote one paragraph on why we should vote for him. If one of his most loyal worshipers cannot come up with even a single line in support of his Messiah, then nothing else needs to be said.

    Prove me wrong, lets see a post on nothing but reasons on why to vote for Obama. Restrict the topic to that point and show us why based on his record he deserves another shot.

    Just another failed Leftist extremist attacking people who don’t agree with his conclusions. A verbal terrorist and a bully.

  432. Tex, shame you didn’t pay more attention to Chuck Todd on MTP. His outrage at the current prideful ignorance of the Donald Trumps and Jack Welch’s of the world was right on the mark.

    The most dangerous person we can encounter is a deranged man because he cannot be reasoned with. Our country is becoming deranged, where fact is fiction and fiction is fact. Constituencies create their own reality and tune into media sources that confirm that reality. (Yes, MSNBC is a part of this.)

    Our country is going through a very public nervous breakdown. That is the real reason to fear for its future. Much of the commentary on this very blog is a microcosm of what is going on across the country. We haven’t simply lost our way …. we’ve lost our minds. 😦

  433. I agree the United States suffers from a degree of derangement, or maybe we are merely a “sick society” which was a catchword in 1968.We writing here cannot change it.

    Rutherford, you do have the power to explain your political motives as we all do. So far. you have failed to defend your case for re hiring Obama. Your post mostly told us the deranged conservatives must not get the chance to ruin the country.

    You wrote nothing about why you think Obama will change course if he is re elected. Could you defend your position with only discussion of Obama and documentation of how he would improve his performance if given another chance?

    thor and newt could help.

  434. Thor, how about Obama repeating over and over that Romney was calling for a $5 trillion tax cut for the wealthy financed by tax increases for middle-class? I view that as a lie. Most people watching do too since Mitt called out Oblamo on it — and when tirelessly repeated after the debates the whole thing debunked (as it was in advance).

  435. Rutherford, I have a sad announcement: Although I voted for Hussein in the last presidential election, I am never going to vote for a black candidate again.

    Why? Racism. Not mine, but that of black people. If that seems mysterious to you, let me explain.

    As of last count, 95% of black voters have committed to vote for Obama, approximately zero for Mitt Romney. In nearly all presidential elections, each candidate will have approximately half of the voters committed to them as the election draws near. But this is not so. Why?

    We both know that if this were a college, for example, and the numbers reversed – say, for example a state school in a predominately white state had approximately ZERO percent black students, the press – and indeed, likely the president himself/herself – would be losing their minds. They would say that there is nothing more needed than *the numbers themselves* to prove that the disparity is due to racism. You know this is true.

    So, a reasonable man can only conclude that *the numbers speak for themselves*. The difference in voting patterns is primarily due to racism – not among white voters, who are about evenly split, give or take a few percent – but solely among the black folks.

    ********************

    Never one to complain without offering a solution, I’d like to offer the following as a plan for righting this horrible wrong. It seems to me that the only way to counter such blatant racism is to have a lunch-counter sit-in or, failing that, a protest in voting. We must force these racists to see the error of their ways, and we must do it non-violently, as would honor the Right Reverend Dr. King.

    The simplest way to right this egregious wrong is a boycott – something along the line of the merchant boycotts of the ‘sixties.

    And that brings me to my plan. I propose that all white people take a solemn pledge to never again vote for a black candidate until black folks renounce their racism and begin to “let all men be judged by the character of their soul, not the color of their skin.” (HT to Dr. KIng)

    Elegant, ain’t it?

  436. From Thor’s link: “Romney would still have been off if he had said the federal debt, rather than deficit, had doubled on Obama’s watch. The debt held by the public — one of two key measures of federal debt — rose from $6.3 trillion on Jan. 20, 2009, to $11.3 trillion on the day of the debate, an increase of 79 percent. The total federal debt, which includes debt the government holds itself, rose by a smaller amount over that period, 53 percent.”

    Maybe he meant “debt.” Not unheard of or even uncommon. An increase of 100% of the debt means that the final amount is 200% of the starting amount. in other words, the quantity has doubled, right?

    So he was rounding up by 20%. That’s an exaggeration, not a bald faced lie. Maybe he forgot the exact number and just ballparked the number tripping on his tongue.

    Maybe instead of rose by 50%, Romney brain farted and blurted “doubled” instead of rose by half. Or maybe he just went on elsewhere without us and meant to say that Obama incurred as much federal debt as his predecessor in half the time.

    There’s something here that seems jumbled and quite possibly overstated, but not lied about, IMO. “Bald-faced” lying about something so easily checked? Is he stupid?

    In any case I think he easily could have meant the debt and just as easily could have muffed his fact. Sloppy, but come on. This whole “Mitt lied” party line is preposterous. Mitt won, and you can’t take that away from him. You guys tried to paint Ryan as a liar too. Without ever montioning Obama and Biden’s problems with the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Shoot Biden’s buried his entire college career in lies. And he flubs a fact practically every time he opens that maw of his.

  437. Clinton has truly done a remarkable job of convincing the lost sheep that there doesn’t exist a man on earth that could have done a better job – even Clinton himself! My my my.

    If neither of them – Obama or Clinton – could have done a better job well then why even bother with an election? It’s a complete waste of a year’s time and a barge load of money.