A Defense of the Democrat’s Social Gospel

My friend and fellow blogger Blackiswhite Imperial Consigliere (BiW) wrote a piece on what he felt was the contradiction inherent in liberal’s calls to Christian’s belief system. In part he writes:

On one hand, they continuously flog Justice Black’s perversion of “separation of church and state” to the degree that any public expression of Christianity is an opportunity for a very small minority to use the courts to suppress the beliefs of a majority based on the specious belief that their lives would be completely devastated by the mere exposure to a cross on a war memorial that they never look at anyway.  On the other hand, they want to quote Scripture to promote the belief that the same people they want to marginalize should be enthusiastic about government picking their pockets to fund entitlements and welfare programs that it has absolutely no business engaging in.

The remainder of this post is my reply to him:

At first blush, your accusation of double standard hits home. How can we, on the one hand, try to keep religion out of government and in the next breath use religion as a reason for government action?

To understand this is to engage a bit of nuance which you and your fellow “rightists” have proven incapable of doing.

Those who quote scripture to justify public policy do so because scripture DOES apply to personal choices. When I say I want separation of church and state, I’m saying that I don’t want any religion forced on me but I recognize your right to be religious … AND I am also aware of the lessons your religion teaches you. I have a right to expect you to participate in this American civic experiment in a way consistent with your Christian belief system. Your refusal to do so makes you a hypocrite.

As has been proven time and time again, the Bible can be cherry picked to death. It is all things to all people. The notion that Matthew is contradicted by Corinthians, Thessalonians and Acts only goes to show that the Bible is not a cohesive book but a potpourri thrown together by a bunch of different people who didn’t coordinate the message. That’s why any non-believer quoting the Bible is engaging in a fool’s errand. I’ve done it a few times myself and have finally learned my lesson. I can say one book says WHITE and you will find me a passage in another book that says BLACK. It’s a flawed method of debate.

Here’s the bottom line …. if your religion obligates you to be charitable, as you have said it does, then there is no need to compel you. When your government says it needs your help, your charitable nature will lead you to cooperate. No conflict at all. But the truth is your charitable nature only goes so far. Your willingness to participate in a cooperative society only goes so far.

What we got from Elizabeth Warren was a civics lesson. In fact that was an implicit theme of the entire convention. We’ve gotten away from viewing ourselves as part of a larger enterprise. As long as we pay OUR mortgage, and get OUR kids through school, we’re happy. If we choose to give to a charity or two, that’s OUR business. As for the country as a whole … it can go to hell in a handbasket. Being a citizen is meaningless. We never signed up to care for our country.

BiW, I’m sorry dude but your party comes off as selfish and petty. The two conventions made the contrast so vivid. To circle back to the beginning, at first blush you’re right. There is a seeming contradiction in the resistance to religion and the appeal to religious principles. But I submit that appeal is simply an attempt to play the game in your arena … to get you at a level you understand. The folly is that you and your fellow conservatives will dig through scripture to justify your selfishness. So ultimately, the liberals attempt to appeal to your religious conscience fails.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

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1,355 thoughts on “A Defense of the Democrat’s Social Gospel

  1. As usual, your limited understanding and familiarity with the subject material has lead you to make some stunningly incorrect conclusions.

    As I have to be in court in about an hour, time will not permit me to correct them now, but either later today or sometime tomorrow, I’ll ring the bell so you know that school is in session.

  2. Please provide the contradictions….and explain them. I think it only fair if you tell us their are contradictions from one book to the other of the New Testament, then you be man enough to differentiate the why and the how and explain it the audience.

    Here’s betting you skip this and don’t even make the attempt. Because you will be proven wrong in the process and are frankly perhaps the most unqualified man I have ever met to even use scripture, much less interpret it for us.

    I will provide why it is not Christians who are hypocrites or misinterpreting Christian scripture that you now wish to use as club, but you. We are following our “religious” conscience. We are living by the rules commanded. And we are living as a community.

    And I will happily prove any of that. Can you do the same for your secular side?

    You are not asking us to live as a community as we already do that by our works, and we do it far better than you.

    You’re now asking us to bow to Caesar Obama and his cast of Pharisees who only open their Bible when to demand we loosely abide by liberal politics with a thin veneer of religiosity – and that, we refuse.

    Even to the layman like you, it couldn’t be more clear where our own charities are to be laid:

    Acts 4:34-35

    That there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.

    So I ask you once again, Rutherford. Please show many here where there is mention of Caesar or Pontius Pilate to lay our charitable works?

    Feel free to use those contradictions from Matthew, or Corinthians, or Thessalonians or Acts. Then I will demonstrate not only are there no contradictions, but that the Bible is a completely a cohesive book, and a completely coordinated message.

    Without recognizing it, what you have become with your tripe is nothing but the demands of the Roman tax collector.

  3. Hey Tex, about that paved street in front of your house, we want it back. And don’t bother calling 911. And you know good and well I could go on and on about other things you and those you love now receive from the government, but I respect the fact that your family is off limits.

  4. Well Newt, you can have your street back as I didn’t use your awful public schools though I paid out the nose for them, my gifted children much the better for it as indicated by their performance…

    …as soon as you: take the 9/11 expense off my city bill, county bill cable bill, phone bill, reimburse me for all my local taxes, let me forgo my ad valorem taxes to be paid with interest, stop the local sales taxes of more than 8.5%, including groceries. I also want reimbursement for all state taxes paid through the years 1976-2011, with interest. Did I mention excise taxes like tags?

    And when do I get reimbursed for the federal excises taxes I pay for every gallon of gas, propane and diesel used pay for those roads?

    But I noticed you weren’t smart enough to really even consider what the discussion is referring to – federal taxes.

    Get in tune, cupcake. Federal taxes. That’s what we are talking about. Rutherford isn’t referring to the state of Oklahoma yet. We are still bowing at the altar of Barack, buttercup.

    We’ll get to screwing the states soon enough when Caesar Obama oversteps his bounds sometime soon, I’m sure.

  5. [How can we, on the one hand, try to keep religion out of government and in the next breath use religion as a reason for government action?]

    As we are proud of who we are Comrade Rutherford, we often find ourselves profession that which motivates us to make our decisions. That is not us forcing ourselves upon you, that is us telling you what has inspired our actions.

    [But the truth is your charitable nature only goes so far. Your willingness to participate in a cooperative society only goes so far.]

    The world needs more charity than can be provided. So it behooves us to focus on a few things and do them well rather than trying to do it all and failing at everything. Like any other human being, we typically chose things that impact us in some way. This is normal and to be expected.

    [We’ve gotten away from viewing ourselves as part of a larger enterprise.]

    No we are getting away from the notion that we are too stupid to run our own lives. We do not need to government to hold our hands and wipe our asses for us Comrade Rutherford. Socialism is a dead concept, it will not work, and we openly and proudly oppose it. Government is far too involved in our lives and none of “us” want to see that influence increase. We can be the nation you talk about without becoming socialists.

    To be honest I have little interest in this topic because the reason for it is obvious. Rather than admit the myriad of things you were wrong about in the previous post, you generated this distraction. It is a non point of little consequence and has nothing to do with anything relevant in current events.

  6. Newton, only have a second but I’ll be darned if I saw much help there, short of defense contractors.

    Entitlements are earned…and unlike you, I’m not receiving Medicaid, food stamps, or mental health benefits.

    Of course, a Dimocratic Congress the last 60 years has bilked the SS “lock box” to where it doesn’t have anything in the box, but that’s an argument for another day.

    Want to give me a big head’s up where Tex benefited from that listed in a very liberal and failing newspaper?

  7. Here’s the bottom line …. if your religion obligates you to be charitable, as you have said it does, then there is no need to compel you. When your government says it needs your help, your charitable nature will lead you to cooperate. No conflict at all. But the truth is your charitable nature only goes so far. Your willingness to participate in a cooperative society only goes so far.
    What we got from Elizabeth Warren was a civics lesson. In fact that was an implicit theme of the entire convention. We’ve gotten away from viewing ourselves as part of a larger enterprise. As long as we pay OUR mortgage, and get OUR kids through school, we’re happy. If we choose to give to a charity or two, that’s OUR business. As for the country as a whole … it can go to hell in a handbasket. Being a citizen is meaningless. We never signed up to care for our country.

    I’m literally sick

  8. Noah you are one of a kind and not in a good way. Don’t like the post? That’s your prerogative. I assume you also find the post to which I was responding (BiW’s post) equally a waste of time and irrelevant.

    But get it through your deranged mind that I don’t write posts to distract from other posts. I write them cos I damn well want to. If you want to keep commenting on the previous post until this time next year, be my guest.

  9. Comrade Rutherford, don’t get all snippy with me just because I read you like a book. Not that I deserve a pat on the back for it, you are not that difficult to read and quite frankly easy to predict. You made outlandish claims with nothing to back them up, then dodged responding when people showed unequivocally that were either ignorant or a liar.

    Quite frankly after getting owned on the jobs subject then the little slip that showed your communist side I am surprised you didn’t make this post last night.

  10. Ugh. I couldn’t even finish reading this one. I quit when Rutherford claimed paying taxes to his corrupt, diseased government was charity.

    Does the fact that Europe and America are printing mean anything to you libs?

    Allow me to be a poolman for a second. What if the Federal Reserve was politicized to such an extent they unleashed monetary policy with the hope of influencing presidential elections? If that was true, would the republic officially be dead?

    It’s funny. My stack of booty is worth a lot more. I bought a bunch when it was in the twenties this time. I should feel happy. But, my silver feels like the same stack it did at 27 bucks and ounce.

    The ultimate failing grade on Obama’s performance, a declaration of printing the day after the convention, could give the short term boost Berry needs. Ironic. The fact that most of the country misses this irony means precious metals haven’t even begin to take off yet.

    I hate when its up. I’m still buying like a crack fiend. I need one more deflationary contraction. Just one more.

  11. Rutherford I quite simply can find no redeeming feature in this post.
    There is an inherent shallowness to many posts no matter the author. Sometimes it is because of the author,sometimes the content,still other times the topic. I’ve no doubt some will say this about my following ramblings.

    In a short post you try to offer up something but I’m left feeling you either got lost on the short ride or you are purposely pulling up short.
    In my earlier comment I included your thoughts on Warren. You seem to share the utopian dream she spews from her forked tongue.The thing is if you or any of her fans had any integrity you’d see she is so full of it and that she’s a very tall fecal totem pole.
    Her brainchild, the consumer screw thing. Holy crap! How the fuck a bureaucracy that costs taxpayers,increases costs for consumers and is totally ineffective in proportion to its costs is seen as something good shows YOUR disconnect from reality. BIG ineffective government that hides behind a talking point of feelings is the way to go. We’re a society then.An enterprise?

    Individual rights is what this country was founded on and is something the Left in America Once Upon a Time at least pretended to believe in. I don’t think you are aware of it but you are quite assuredly advocating at a minimum a Singapore solution and in the spirit of your fellow democrats this past week the Nazi solution.

    Let me close with sharing with you something I’ve come to see as true. When you speak of conservatives (or anyone) looking at & citing scripture and what liberals do in return you really balls it all up.
    First and foremost a great number of the folks on the Left hold faith in very low regard. The only thing they hold lower is those they feel are simple folk who believe in it in the first place. When the Left embraces faith/scripture it isn’t out of nobility. It is out of arrogance and contempt. When you choose to arm yourselves with it it is with malice and disrespect. A great illustration of this would be how many a left leaner perverted the stewardship principles in the Bible (and other books) to get religious folks to buy into green policies,some that were not very sound and some in direct conflict with the humans best interest.
    Rutherford,be like Avis and next time….try harder

  12. @ Tex you probably know this already but OK is one of the states that are termed “donor states” when it comes to fuels taxes: highway funds. This means that Okies give the feds more money in taxes than they see in road and transit $’s. But we’re all one society,err enterprise,err family….whatever

  13. “Here’s the bottom line …. if your religion obligates you to be charitable, as you have said it does, then there is no need to compel you. When your government says it needs your help, your charitable nature will lead you to cooperate. No conflict at all. But the truth is your charitable nature only goes so far. Your willingness to participate in a cooperative society only goes so far.

    The longer I am here, the more I realize that we really are from different worlds, Rutherford.

    “There is no need to compel you?” Did you really say that? Where does the Constitution say my government has the RIGHT to compel me to be charitable, or even cajole me. That is not their job, their right or their obligation. Their job is to DO their job, not take on new ones for which they have no authority.

    If I mischaracterize you, please correct me. But I think the difference between you and me, R, is that you think the govt has a whole set of IMPLIED powers THAT THEY DO NOT POSSESS – AT LEAST NOT LEGALLY.

  14. By the way, if someone suggests that there is no difference between Obama and Romney, here is a passable comeback:

    The difference is that Romney’s supporters sign their checks on the front, and Obama’s sign theirs on the back.

  15. The difference is that Romney’s supporters sign their checks on the front, and Obama’s sign theirs on the back.

    😆 Classic. I’m crushed Newton doesn’t find me a “patriot” and “model citizen” and I needed something to pick my spirits up to make me whole again.

  16. Government is a cancer. You can’t keep feeding it the very thing that makes it grow. It has to be surgically removed form the lungs of America so we can breathe free once again.

    When over half goes for war and war related debts, interest, and expenses, I say the most charitable thing we can do for mankind is disassemble it.

    Government does compassion poorly and everything inefficiently.

    A vote for Rmoney and Rayn is not going to change it.

    Go Ron Paul!!!

  17. Alfie,

    One of the most egregious of the millions of Dim lies are how Red States are the benefactor of “taxes.” I’ve even seen T Accounts, and graphs, and pie charts, all kinds of cool stuff constructed by the Nate Silvers of the world demonstrating the profound generosity of blue state blue bloods.

    Problem is, none of us here in Red State OK believe it. We don’t receive bailouts, can’t get FEMA to cut one check when hundreds of homes burned west of me, farmers go broke when the bennie well suddenly turns dry, though California doesn’t seem to have much problem, can’t do this, can’t do that, never had our Big Dig moment.

    Our magnificent federal highway system Rutherford is always bragging as the big bonanza and a sign of HUGE GOVERNMENT SUCCESS? Went to tolls about 50 years ago to pay for it – an I mean outrageous tolls too (about 15-25¢ a mile I estimate for two axle vehicles) – usually with one lane torn to hell and a state disgrace, I might add. Texas, the best roads I’ve ever driven on here in America are mostly free and beautiful. Don’t ask me. I guess their politicians are less corrupted than our politicians.

    Some bureaucrats are making a killing some place.

    So when we the hicks, lowlanders, inbred Neanderthals, and flyover country types offer these blue states the offer to quit “donating” to us and we’ll do without if we don’t have to pay anymore and call it even, suddenly the mood turns ugly and were called how did Newton put it? No patriot of the year awards for us. 😛

    It’s an amazing turn of events when we offer to return the “donations” if they’ll leave us alone. I mean these people in blue state America are so generous, they demand we keep our “donations” and get real testy when we refuse.

  18. It’s amazing how Rutherford gets religion when it comes to the charitable pocketbook of our Patriarch Obama, Tigre. Why Rutherford even quotes scripture and starts speaking in tongues as indicated by the babbling in the post in above.

    Newton has interpreted for us. 😆

    I guess I’ll assume the Obama Hope & Change thingy fell through as unconvincing, and we’ve now moved on to Plan B.

    Jesus.

  19. By the way, the “FORWARD” campaign slogan has been changed to ‘IT COULD HAVE BEEN WORSE…’ if I understood the concluding message of the Dimocratic Convention.

    Put that next to the Obama/Biden 2012 and plaster the Obama rainbow next to it, with “It’s Bush’s Fault” on the back.

    That would be sweet looking.

  20. My Dad used to always half jokingly do this thing where he put his right palm out, as if he’s getting paid, and then flip the bird with his left hand behind his back. Obviously this implied that us boys didn’t respect what he provided, which we didn’t at times. In our defense, we did all move out at age 17 or younger, our cash hand no longer extended. Our middle finger behind the back seem to live for a few more years. If this country ever splits I will do the same thing.

  21. Tex, what with this, “No patriot of the year awards for us?” Don’t go blaming your fellow Oklahomans for your short comings. I image they’re all just swell. You honestly can’t expect the Federal government to pick up all your expenses. Isn’t it enough that Obama kept the country safe, you bought line from George W.
    “The difference is that Romney’s supporters sign their checks on the front, and Obama’s sign theirs on the back.” Might be true for some, but most of us city slickers have direct deposit and debt cards; we’ve no more need to remember how to sign our names than we have to remember phone numbers.

  22. Tex, what with this, “No patriot of the year awards for us?” Don’t go blaming your fellow Oklahomans for your short comings. I image they’re all just swell.

    Newton, my lovely Newton with big dotted bows and doe eyelashes I “image”. I accept the blame as traitor. All of it.

    I accept full responsibility that in 2008 due to my unseemingly and calloused influence, a couple of million voters from the swell state of Oklahoma went to the voting booth so confused, the final tally was in 77 counties was:

    John McCain 77
    Barack Obama 0

    You honestly can’t expect the Federal government to pick up all your expenses.

    ❓ I want to be a believer in Brother Father Barack. I really do need free rent and gas too. Isn’t that ultimate the solution to all of our problems? We’ll let Benevolent Barack dole out and divvy up proceeds of federal ‘revenue’?

    You call me Hitler and I’ll sing Kumbaya, you sign a hymn of Obama praise, and I’ll empty the Transfund account to be redistributed by Father ‘O’?

    Isn’t it enough that Obama kept the country safe?

    I might feel a wee bit safer if President Obama, who compared bankers to suicide bombers, and his Homeland Security Secretary Mongo Napalitano, who suggested the T-word ‘terrorism’ now be called “man-caused” disaster because it was too inflammatory and representative of old-fashioned thinking, got back to old-fashioned thinking. 😈

  23. I’m the guy that invites the Mormon’s or the Jehovah Witnesses in to my living room to debate when they come around canvasing the neighborhood.

    This is Poolman’s from the previous thread.

    LOL Poolman you reminded me of something I just had to share. When I was a teenager two Jehovah Witnesses, a black man and a white woman (Bruce and Judy, if I recall correctly) would come by my house, often on Sundays and my mother would invite them in to chat. My mother had zero interest in Jehovah Witnesses … she just hoped if they visited often enough she’d eventually find out if they were f*cking each other. 🙂 Alas, I think they stopped visiting before she could ever get her answer.

  24. And there you have it folks, in the man’s own words. He is pro COMMUNISM. He did RIGHT, by IGNORING the will of the people, ie the vote. There is nothing more we need to know about Mr. I can only vote for the black man, Lawson.

    This from the prior thread — the loon strikes again. I’m communist now? Wow does the English language evade you. I didn’t say I LIKED Antonio ignoring the obvious 50 or so percent who yelled NOOOO. I just said that it was politically correct for him to do so. Otherwise he would have caught hell from folks like you for not having God and Jerusalem on the platform.

    It is amazing that the Israeli conflict is so f*cked up that they cannot even declare their own capital without land disputes getting in the way.

    For my foreign policy experts (no sarcasm intended), does the current Dem platform calling Jerusalem the capital of Israel synch up with the United Nations? I’m assuming not.

  25. The real cause of the current mess is not some make believe bust in supply side, but the real estate mess and accompanying housing boom and bust. Anybody that doesn’t understand this is either stupid or a liar.

    This from our resident genius from the prior thread. Housing bust was the entire problem heh? Wouldn’t that be news to Lehman Brothers and AIG?

    Tex, you’ve missed the most obvious criticism that you could and should have leveled at the DNC spectacle Wednesday night. It was Clinton who killed Glass-Steagel. THAT if nothing else was the major cause of our current woes.

  26. From the prior thread: Here’s Peggy Noonan’s take – she was on your attagirl list back in 2008 when she gushed over Barry. Remember at Chen’s? Why you just fawned over her and Kathleen, David Brooks and David Frum, Christopher Buckley and and and…

    You must have me confused with your wife. I almost loathe Peggy Noonan and always have. Have you noticed she almost never looks at the person she’s talking to on talk shows? It’s because she is a speech writer … and so in love with the sound of her own voice that she stares at nothing while she listens to herself emote. Then (and this is a predictable as the sun rising), when she’s done talking she gives this self-satisfied look that says “I just said something SO profound”.

    Case in point … in the following video, during 80% of her speech who the hell is she looking at? (Unfortunately I couldn’t find the example of the “self satisfied look” at the end.)

  27. You’re the only one here from the left who occasionally seems interested in truth.

    Thor … caution my friend … this friendly persuasive style from Tex (from prior thread) will last only until the next thing you say that pisses him off.

    He has a clunker for a candidate and it’s driving him apoplectic. Look for hidden weapons. He will draw them when you least expect it.

  28. This from our resident genius from the prior thread. Housing bust was the entire problem heh? Wouldn’t that be news to Lehman Brothers and AIG?

    Boy Rutherford. You really are bitter at me, aren’t you? This was even more crushing than Newton calling me unpatriotic.

    Tell me. How does somebody so ill informed make it in today’s world? How does somebody so obviously, intellectually challenged about anything beyond the political glib, grab the brass to make insult without understanding they just exposed their abject stupidity with the very context of their insult?

    Please tell me this question was just your attempt at self-deprecation?

    This is what happens when you buddy up with people like Newton. You become Newton. You may have topped your milestone for idiocy with this lame attempt. And that was a rather high milestone, I might add. You’re a much easier target when bitter, though.

    Can I give you a word of advice, even if my love for Rutherford now spurned? 🙂 You need to excuse yourself from conversations about the New Testament and financial dealings.

    Anybody here care to explain to Rutherford what the subprime mortgage crisis and credit default swaps were, and how they were affiliated with Lehman closing shop and AIG almost folding tent? Because frankly, I’m tired of someone handing a hand phaser to a troglodyte, and then having to run for cover after they accidentally find the on button and start randomly aiming.

    I always get the blame.

    Truly Fat Grannies worthy, Rutherford.

  29. From prior thread: Dear Unemployed,

    Prepare to be blown away by the empathy.

    Muffy, it’s called facts … something your party has a real problem with. Empathy doesn’t mean denying the facts. Whether you like it or not, we have a slow recovery. Things are getting slowly better not worse. Does this comfort those currently unemployed? No. But it’s the truth.

    I think Clinton put it very well. No one gets out of this mess in four years. It was arrogant for Obama to think he could. I think he’s learned from his arrogance. You think he hasn’t. We’ll agree to disagree.

  30. Thor … caution my friend … this friendly persuasive style from Tex (from prior thread) will last only until the next thing you say that pisses him off.

    😆 A momentary moment of weakness. But the apology was still sincere no matter my nasty disposition. That was a shitty thing to say on my behalf about the poetry, or was it fiction? I can do better if I’m going to piss somebody off – sheer laziness and impatience on my behalf.

    But I really did think Thor knew me better about the Bradley Manning comment.

    He has a clunker for a candidate and it’s driving him apoplectic. Look for hidden weapons. He will draw them when you least expect it.

    😆 😆 You really have overestimated my attachment. Buddy, Eddie Haskell, the white Obama, could be running and it would still be ABO. Eddie Haskell for President.

  31. But there is no need to worry about jobs. The job creators got our back. They’ve spent the last 133 months of tax cuts “thinking” about creating jobs. I have all the confidence in the world that they will spend the last 4 months of their tax cuts implementing those thoughts, finally coming through on their promise to create jobs and boost the economy. 😉

    Thor knocks it out of the friggin park again. Amen Brother!!!!

  32. Whether you like it or not, we have a slow recovery.

    So slow, 44 of the 50 states, or is it 57???, marked an uptick in unemployment last month.

    I guess those 6 states are just killing it…. 🙄

  33. Rutherford, you’re going to die before the “BIG WIN” at this rate.

    Man, you need to slow down, take a deep breath, and repeat to yourself softly, building to a crescendo

    Yes We Can! Yes We Can! Yes We Can!!!! We are the generation we’ve been waiting for…

    Picture in your mind, the seas stopping their rise and the country coming together in one voice. Picture it…. and hum, “Imagine there’s no Heaven. It’s easy if you try….”

  34. Umm…I have but one last question for my liberal friends. One that has puzzled me, but there’s never been an answer coming. Nada. Never. Nyet. Surely, there’s a liberal in our midst that dares explain this very simple question to the hillbillies on the right.

    Rutherford can probably skip right on by, because these question require a modicum of finance, history and economics. I’ll leave this one to Thor’s steady hand.

    The job creators got our back. They’ve spent the last 133 months of tax cuts “thinking” about creating jobs. I have all the confidence in the world that they will spend the last 4 months of their tax cuts implementing those thoughts, finally coming through on their promise to create jobs and boost the economy. 😉

    Thor knocks it out of the friggin park again. Amen Brother!!!!

    If Thor knocked it out of the park, and it’s Bush’s fault, and all went to hell in a handbasket because of Bush, and it’s the greedy corporations sitting on their capital to spite Obama….and “trickle down” economics doesn’t work…and and and…all the other Dimocratic soundbites of the last ten years:

    Are you ready?

    Why was it the unemployment rate, even after the tech bubble (Clinton’s surplus by the way) and 9/11, only ticking slightly above 6% one or two months under Bush for the first seven years of his Presidency, and for at least two of those years, half of it in Bush’s second term, the unemployment rate even lower than under our Patron Saint and savior Bill Clinton?

    Which raises another question. In Bush’s seventh year of Presidency, the annual yearly deficit was about 25% of what it is now, even paying for two wars. Can you explain why if “trickle down”
    doesn’t work, why it took 96 months of Reagan, 48 months of Bush I, 96 months of Clinton, and 90 months of Bush to rear its ugly head?

  35. For my foreign policy experts (no sarcasm intended), does the current Dem platform calling Jerusalem the capital of Israel synch up with the United Nations? I’m assuming not.

    Oh that’s because Rmoney went and said it first and loud. The pandering just makes me want to vomit. Rutherford, they do nothing the United Nations tells them. The get us and others to strongarm the UN. The haven’t even ratified a constitution which was like their very first UN requirement. It’s easier to break rules when you don’t first define them.

  36. [I just said that it was politically correct for him to do so. Otherwise he would have caught hell from folks like you for not having God and Jerusalem on the platform. ]

    Comrade Rutherford. The politically correct thing to do was to follow the rules. If your party cannot play by the rules with each other we have no reason to believe they will with us. Your Messiah said to do a thing, will of the people be damned, and it was done. Period!

    [Tell me. How does somebody so ill informed make it in today’s world?]
    Guvment checks and affirmative action.

    [Muffy, it’s called facts … something your party has a real problem with.]

    This coming from the man(laugh) that cant sit through a fact filled Whittle video. Please bitch.

    [Empathy doesn’t mean denying the facts. Whether you like it or not, we have a slow recovery. Things are getting slowly better not worse.]

    Links to support this fabrication Comrade Rutherford? Because every single news organization over the last 2 days disagrees with you.

    How about that jobs argument? Media has been blowing your argument out of the water the last few days Comrade. Ready for that taste crow?

  37. Don’t Bogart that cancer care. ‘Specially you deniers. You know who you are, Tex.

    At the annual summer conference of the International Cannabinoid Research Society, held this year in Freiburg, Germany, 300 scientists from around the world discussed their latest findings, which are pointing the way toward novel treatment strategies for cancer and other degenerative diseases. Italian investigators described CBD as “the most efficacious inducer of apoptosis” in prostate cancer. Ditto for cannabidiol and colon cancer, according to British researchers at Lancaster University.

    Within the medical science community, the discovery that cannabinoids have anti-tumoral properties is increasingly recognized as a seminal advancement in cancer therapeutics.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/09/06/marijuana-fights-cancer-and-helps-manage-side-effects-researchers-find.html

  38. “I can say one book says WHITE and you will find me a passage in another book that says BLACK. It’s a flawed method of debate.” – R

    Until you realize both passages are describing a zebra. IMO, apparent contradictions in the Bible are an effective method of teaching, not fodder for debate.

    “So ultimately, the liberals attempt to appeal to your religious conscience fails.” – R

    I think it fails because it’s often not an honest appeal. More often, it’s an attempt to beat people over the head with their own Bible. (I confess, at my worst, I’ve been guilty of this at times). The appeal should be to the common good, feeding the poor, healing the sick. The motivation, be it from religious beliefs or lack thereof, doesn’t matter.

  39. “Thor … caution my friend … this friendly persuasive style from Tex (from prior thread) will last only until the next thing you say that pisses him off.” – R

    It might be a while. You two seem to be the main event right now. 🙂

    Did you see Romney is going to be on Meet the Press Sunday?

  40. Tex @ 51.

    First of all, unemployment is a lag indicator and 6% is nothing to brag about. Second, trickle down is suppose to lift everyone up, not just keep them employed. Average household incomes have been falling throughout that entire era. And every one of the administrations you named RAISED taxes until George W.

    And Bush did not put the wars on budget. Otherwise, his deficits would have been much more apparent.

    Now, let’s just return to Clinton era tax levels, restore the firewall of Glass-Steagal, re-build our infrastructure, shrink the defense budget, get out of Afghanistan, rip out the parts of NAFTA that are killing “MADE IN AMERICA”, get people back to work so they can pay taxes instead of sucking them (American Jobs Act) and we’ll be well on our way.

  41. “I can say one book says WHITE and you will find me a passage in another book that says BLACK. It’s a flawed method of debate.” – R

    “Until you realize both passages are describing a zebra. IMO, apparent contradictions in the Bible are an effective method of teaching, not fodder for debate.”

    And this is why it is pointless to argue with believers. Logic is out the window. You can easily find twenty-thirty direct contradictions in the bible; it’s trivial. But show it to the faithful and they say, “Does not.”

    Reminds me of the great Monty Python scene…

  42. I wasn’t around in the halcyonic Sensico days.

    It’s obvious Rutherford really does believe government an organ of charity. I guess it makes him benevolent to support unrestrained spending and expansion of government for its own sake to believe that it is.

    This post is a real head scratcher for me. Like everyone else here except Newt, I find nothing of value in it and wonder why it was written if R (assuming he was sober when he did).

  43. good morning, everyone! Hope you had a good week and that you will have a great weekend. I have not read all of the comments but have a question. As I understand it, Mr. Romney departs from his party’s platform on the issue of abortion (a primary issue for me). Mr. Obama departed from the Democratic platform on the issue of Jerusalem (as I understand, “God” was elsewhere in the platform, so it’s not like it was removed from and then put back in the platform when it wasn’t already there. Please correct me if I am wrong.). Mr. Obama insisted that Jerusalem be put back in the Democratic platform, Mr. Romney did not insist that his view on the exceptions for abortion be put back in the Republican one.

    Putting aside the fact that I am closer to the Republican platform than Mr. Romney (because I have real concerns about a “health of the mother” exception), aren’t the candidates supposed to be the leaders of their parties? So, wasn’t it appropriate for Mr. Obama to insist that Jerusalem be put back in the Democratic platform (a change with which I agree)? I’d love to hear people’s thoughts about the extent to which a Presidential candidate should be able to set platform.

  44. On the issue of the platform recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, Poolman is right it is pandering. Pandering for Jewish votes in Florida. Both Republicans and Democrats have always stated that in their platform, but the United States will continue to maintain their embassy in Tel Viv where it has been located ever since Israel became a country regardless of which party is in control of the American government.

  45. good morning, Newt. My point wasn’t so much about the particular issues but about the role of the candidate in setting party platform.

  46. I found this piece on Israel’s capitol, thought I would share it. http://middleeast.about.com/od/usmideastpolicy/f/me081005f.htm
    Hi Emily, wish I had an answer for you, but…. I suspect they usually do and they speak up early when the platform is being written. In this case, the story is the platform committee forgot or neglected to reinsert it into the platform and no one noticed and the platform had been already accepted by the convention, so President Obama made the request that it be reinserted. Awkward to say the least.

  47. Tex, I am taking your complaint, Oklahoma homeowners were not paid for the loss of their homes, seriously. I searched the internet to see if the homeowners who lost homes to the 1988 Yellowstone fires were paid anything. So far I haven’t found anything to indicate that they were and they would have the best case for collecting anything from the federal government, because it was the National Park’s “no burn policy” that allowed the fires to get so far out of control. Perhaps you will have better luck than I and actually learn more on this subject.

  48. You can easily find twenty-thirty direct contradictions in the bible; it’s trivial. But show it to the faithful and they say, “Does not.”

    I asked for specific contradictions from four, and you didn’t name one. And neither you or Rutherford will be able to find one.

    It making these statements, you’re only demonstrating your profound ignorance of The Bible. Apparently, it’s you that cherry picks, because one of the very “appeals” of the Bible if you will is:

    It is without doubt the most influential book ever penned. Nothing even comes close. It continues to be the most influential, most quoted book in all the world even today after 2,000 years.
    It’s authenticity of content is not in dispute. For instance, an entire and complete copy of Isaiah over 2,500 years old, sits in a Jewish museum – word for word what you read today.
    It is without dispute, the critiqued book even read – and it’s the most read by a hundred fold.
    It was penned in three different languages
    It was written over 1,500 years
    It’s so consistent in message over that time frame of at least one and one-half millennia , it’s unworldly (get the hint).
    It’s the best archeological book of history in history – never once proven wrong though men like you have tried for at least 2,000 years.
    The very printing press, elected by a panel of historians and scientists as the most profound invention to have changed human history and influenced the world, was inspired and created to mass produce it’s content.
    It is the basis of Western Culture
    It is the basis of Democratic Law
    It is has inspired more art, more beautiful pageantry, more breathtaking architecture than any inspiration on earth
    It rose women to position of equality and prominence, even written in patriarchal societies.
    It inspired the very profession you chose

    Want me to go on because these are just quickly off the top of my head.

    Pfesser, you’re a bright mind. But the Bible has broken many a bright mind. When it comes to the Bible, you’re nothing but a vile subset of misanthrope with a chip on his shoulder, not due to its content but the failure of its followers. If you are to hold the Bible in contempt, then to be fair, you must also admit its relevance, its influence, its importance, and most importantly the humanity and culture it has inspired.

    What you believe as purpose and reason is patently absurd, and I don’t think even you believe the pap when forced to contemplate its depth. You’re forced to mouth it, because it is all you got to dispute. And frankly, it makes you read shallower than you are.

    The fact some of the Bible is clearly metaphor and allegory, some simply good advice, doesn’t change the truth of its message.

    And I repeat again – your opinion and its influence has the worst history on earth. The 20th century alone proved that. That makes you on the fringe – not us.

  49. Awkward to say the least?

    More like an obvious lie, now magnified even further to try and hide the embarrassment. Can’t hide the video, Newton. The message was clear – it was to appease what at least a great minority of the jackass party has become.

    Hostility toward religious Jews, a hater of Israel, and an appeaser of Islam not because of its religion which you disdain all of religion. Because you pander to retain power, as you do illegal immigration.

    This is one pander you will grow to rue. I GUARANTEE THAT.

    Congratulations on your big tent – it reminds me of Africa and its tribes, who will eventually consume one another. You’re literally a big tent of vileness and hate.

    And I find that amusing…by the so called “intellectual” party.

  50. @39 ” Housing bust was the entire problem heh? Wouldn’t that be news to Lehman Brothers and AIG?”

    Rutherford, SIGH!!!!!! I don’t believe you wrote that. Slap yourself on the side of the head and recant your statement.

    All this talk about religion must be fogging up your brain. People of “organized religion” probably do feel compelled to do charitable work according to the dogma of their church but I can assure you that church is not promoting they extend those feelings ($$$) to government. Non religious persons also feel compelled to do charitable work so I really don’t get your message or BiW’s. Maybe I missed something in the translation

  51. First of all, unemployment is a lag indicator and 6% is nothing to brag about.

    This is true, but you’re asking me to believe it “lagged” for 26 years. Actually 6% would be a blessing at this moment, only lasted two months, is better than the historical average, and is only 1% more than what is considered full employment.

    Second, trickle down is suppose to lift everyone up, not just keep them employed. Average household incomes have been falling throughout that entire era.

    Completely untrue. Everyone’s wealth has increased dramatically since 1981 – every group including the poor. What you are referring to is that the “rich” which is actually the top 20%, not 1%. Their wealth has increased disproportionately and it is true that their wealth has increased far more. But that benefited you and me.

    How many households do you know that don’t have air conditioning, refrigeration, at least two TVs, a DVD, a computer, and two cars? Could you say the same in 1980? Even 1990?

    Thor, what really has changed is our perception of what is rich.

    And every one of the administrations you named RAISED taxes until George W.

    Not in the aggregate. When Ronald Reagan left office, if memory serves the highest tax bracket was 28%. Clinton cut capital gains taxes. Raising taxes cost Bush I his job.

    And Bush did not put the wars on budget. Otherwise, his deficits would have been much more apparent.

    ❓ Whether on the budget or not, we know what we spent.

    Here’s the numbers for the decade:

    http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm

  52. Tex, why the racist attitude? What personal experience did you have with blacks that set you off?

    😆 Now I’m racist too? I used Africa not designate color, but competing tribe. Would it make you feel better if I used Yugoslavia instead? I wouldn’t want to offend your profound racial sensitivities.

    And you can call Big O a friend to Israel. But that ain’t their opinion, try as you must to spin.

  53. Since you obviously did not look at the link, here in their own words:

    BARAK: I should tell you honestly that this administration under President Obama is doing, in regard to our security, more than anything that I can remember in the past. … In terms of the support for our security, the cooperation of our intelligence, the sharing of sorts in a very open way even when there are differences.
    PERES: When I look at the record of President Obama concerning the major issues, security, I think it’s a highly satisfactory record, from an Israeli point of view.

    I don’t just ask that question Tex, because of the reference to Africa, but because of all N… word euphemisms you pepper in your comments. I only recognize one race, the human race. I also know that it is useful on occasion to refer specifically to the different human colorations or ethnic backgrounds of individuals or groups. As in I was robbed by a white man officer; he looked Irish.

  54. Come Newt. Let’s not mince words.

    I’ve used the word nigger here to describe blacks? Which ‘N’ euphemisms do I express, Newton? That I call Rutherford Brotha, Brother, or something to that regard? That I make fun of poor, poor Michelle Obama and find her a pretentious pile of crap, that apparently most can’t see through? Tell you who does. Her assistants that turn over about every six months.

    That Bongo is a derogatory term? I’ve been called racist because of that one too. I find that funny as I used that by accident during the Blago ordeal and when I found it liberals became unhinged over its use, just added it to my repertoire.

    Well, if I could explain this very simply. I don’t loathe Michelle and Barack Obama because they are black. I loathe Michelle and Barack Obama because I find them despicable, entitled and evil.

    There was a time I actually liked Rutherford, and even when I didn’t agree with much, admired his work. But the internet has a way of hiding excesses and foibles, and when I heard Rutherford on radio and read his tweets, realized I mad badly misjudged the man and his fairness and goodness. It didn’t just change what I thought of his character, but what I thought of his intellect. Another in a long list of herd mentality talking points, unable to overcome the stereotypes and group think and be more individualistic. What an empty life.

    I don’t pander to blacks, refuse to use the mind-numbing stupid hyphenated American as political correctness, and I think many if not most blacks are their own worst enemy. I don’t lie or distort their criminal record either, find many black men predatory, find many black men and women racist to the core, their livelihoods dependent upon stoking the strife. Did I mention I also know for a fact that a great number of their families in disarray, and their community mostly in shambles? Is it a wonder they rank at the bottom of the socio economic scale? Shouldn’t.

    And the latter I put squarely at the feet of white, elitist assholes, believing blacks too stupid to fend for themselves, who have shackled blacks with an insidious form of dependency that I don’t just consider racist, but inhumane. What I blame blacks for is not being able to open their own eyes and measure the situation. They’re being used. Even pandering fools like you contribute to the cause.

    But a few blacks I know personally and many more who I’ve heard or I’ve read, that aren’t held hostage to the most insidious form of racism of low expectations, that are decent and honest, don’t use their race as excuse for the failures, and don’t look at me as their enemy because of some legacy of whiteness?

    They’ve been in my house a number of times as guests and their daughter is a doll, whom my children love like a sister.

    Your odious sanctimony and transparent stupidity of trying to bait me or make me something I’m not notwithstanding, if that makes me racist in your eyes to speaking the truth….

    I wear the badge proudly.

  55. Tex, I believe at some point in our lives, we are all racists. It is far easier to trust people most like ourselves. And we never overcome our own biases until we recognize our own feelings and begin to question them. I have had a hard time with you, for one thing, I find it very difficult to to reconcile your ‘political incorrectness’ with an educated person. I doubt Rutherford deceived you by much, he seems to be to be a liberal. Granted he does, in my mind, back away from his liberal ideas here on the blog as the path of least resistance to often.

  56. Tex, I believe at some point in our lives, we are all racists. It is far easier to trust people most like ourselves.

    You confuse unfamiliarity and culture with racism. I’ve been accused of being racist for realizing some cultures far superior to others, rendering the term racist as meaningless.

    Racism is not recognizing a difference in the color of one’s skin. If I were to describe Rutherford for instance, my first descriptor would be black – it’s his most obvious feature. Does that make me racist? Because that is exactly what our government uses to divide demographic.

    You find my political incorrectness as uneducated? Ironic. I find your political correctness as false, foolish, pandering for effect, and transparently phony. Matter of fact, I am the only white person I know who actually agreed with Eric Holder one time and one time only. We are a nation of duplicitous cowards when it concerns race. I’m not. From his actions, obviously Holder meant something entirely else. But he was right without meaning to be.

    Rutherford’s liberal nature didn’t deceive me at all. We never hid our political differences, and for a time, it provided a great deal of humor to us both – I think. It did me anyway. I’m here all the time on account of it. Trust me – I’m certainly not here because of you, who I find completely worthless and a buffoon in discussion. I only respond because you seem to be some kind of dimwitted masochist, and it allows me to explain to anybody that might read this blog what I believe.

    I enjoy the give and take.

    What deceived me was the likability factor, the facetiousness of what was posted here vs. what was relayed elsewhere, and that fact that I had woefully overestimated Rutherford’s ability to think critically and outside the box. He’s just another parrot now – albeit a well written parrot.

    And since my father has become ill and I have way too much time on my hands sitting here with him as he sleeps all day, I have once again fallen back into the habit of being my own best audience and dominating this thread.

    At least for Rutherford’s patience, he becomes $100.00 richer on November 7th no matter who wins. He may hate my guts as I don’t much care, but at least he can thank me for that on that day. 🙂

    A small token of my appreciation for his bandwidth and his angst.

  57. The Bible is probably the most influential book historically. It has been used to justify campaigns of both good and evil. Though it contains enlightenment and much history, it is not infallible as some profess. It has been preserved over time, true, but it also has been held in man’s hands to interpret, distribute, and control.

    You can find spiritual truths and moral principles as well as examples of real human failures and frailty. You can find the pathway to spiritual rebirth and an introduction to the Creator, but the book itself should not be worshiped as it is in many a congregation.

    At the end of the day, it’s still words on a page. The power comes from putting the principles contained therein into action in real time.

  58. “You find my political incorrectness as uneducated?” I feel that makes you appear uneducated. It has been my experience that in some cases the most racist people I have met in my life generally have never so much as met a black person. They are racist mainly because of fear. Unlike you, I do not believe any one culture to be superior to another, they are simply different.

  59. I will tell you unbelievers this. If what Poolman says is true, that the Bible is just words on a page inspired by man and not by God, you should summarily reject the Bible as inspiration and simply treat it as another book of fiction with some redeeming messages of value from an admirable man.

    You will fare better than Poolman.

    Because the one thing the Bible cannot be is sort of right, any more than Jesus can be sort of a Messiah. While subtle differences of changing a word from Aramaic to Greek to Latin to English I’m sure do exist, mainly because of the culture it written for at the time, or the writing allegory and parable and a much more common theme of teaching style, we know with written proof nothing in content has been misconstrued. It stands as is.

    Because the authors of the Bible clearly said two things about it.

    First, all scripture is inspired by God. And perhaps the best of all the Gospels, my favorite chapter of my favorite book of the entire Bible says this:

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.

    What you read is entirely Jesus and entirely His message. So either call him a liar, a lunatic or messiah.

  60. I think most Americans are pretty shallow. We’re up on the latest trivia, but lack a solid foundation to fall back on. We have a zillion avenues for entertainment and over indulgence, but few institutions that foster positive human health and development.

    In many ways modern culture has made us less human. Organically, we rebel against the plastic world within which we surround ourselves. Many things we embrace are toxic to our systems, from disruption of healthy biorhythms to anti flesh. Then we ponder why we have so many health issues. 🙄

  61. “Remember, you made this personal with your Huckabee comment. I have no idea why you thought that comment necessary or what led to the tantrum, but it was you that elevated the personal. If you can’t run with the big dogs, don’t get off the porch. If you can’t handle the truth, don’t broach the subject.”

    I get all the bluster but I don’t get how it relates to the definition of recession. BTW what did I say about Huckabee that so offended you? That he defends Akin? He does. That he loathes Romney? He does.

    A question prompted by my brainwashing MSNBC: which is the more urgent problem, unemployment or the deficit? Don’t dodge. Give a real answer.

  62. “The appeal should be to the common good, feeding the poor, healing the sick. The motivation, be it from religious beliefs or lack thereof, doesn’t matter.”

    That’s a fair assessment Thor. I think it’s obvious that libs use the Bible to imply hypocrisy on the part of their opponent. I will confess it might not be the high road.

  63. When I read the red letters, they speak to me. Many of the prophets and apostles words do the same. Many of the OT prophets the same. These are living words to me, I save them on the tablet of my heart. I don’t need to always crack a book for inspiration. It is a LIVING Word. Once you nail it to a page it becomes a collection, nothing more. It’s always a matter of action. The output resulting from the knowledge. Rubber meet road kind of thang.

  64. Haven’t spent too much time here at Rutherford’s tavern, have you playful? He’s often the first to go OT. You can opt out of the email part, btw. Use the scroll option god gave you.

    I’ll try not to add too many videos. 🙂

  65. BTW what did I say about Huckabee that so offended you? That he defends Akin? He does. That he loathes Romney? He does.

    🙂 I think your memory is really starting to fail you. And at least part of that is not joking, as the more smarmy you’ve become, I have noticed a considerable detriment in performance too. You’re not going to beat me in the debate of finance or Christianity, but you’re not Newt either – until as of late.

    You seem to have forgotten the first, memorable part about Tex Taylor. I said personal; not Romney or Akin.

    Nonetheless, considering the source, I can’t be offended. At least not with respect to my faith and my assurances. But you need to review. You did make it personal – so I just returned the favor to teach you a lesson in humility.

  66. I do not believe any one culture to be superior to another, they are simply different.

    Newton…

    You’re obviously not dealing with a full deck. I guess I’ll carry that further for you that all opinions are of equal value too.

    Do you like ice cream?

  67. I’m sorry. I meant to answer this as truthfully as possible:

    A question prompted by my brainwashing MSNBC: which is the more urgent problem, unemployment or the deficit?

    I would say the deficit with a proviso. It’s a double edged sword.

    Without an economy dependent upon the creation of wealth, you can’t cut spending enough to begin to balance the budget. Without jobs, you can’t increase demand for goods to increase wealth. The increase in wealth is derived from the private sector.

    There was nothing about what Clinton did, as he was the generational benefactor of a roaring economy. Our supposed “surplus” and balanced budget was some control in spending by President and Congress, accompanied by an influx of capital gains due to the tech bubble they had nothing to do with. There were no wars and no huge unexpected expenses.

    In essence Clinton and Gingrich did this – some common sense in conjunction with serendipity.

    Whether you deny it or not Rutherford, Bush didn’t create the financial collapse. The trend for deficit was trending back to balanced even with two wars before the real estate bubble and collapse. I provided the numbers to Thor.

    What Bush was responsible for and should be condemned is dramatically growing government under the banner of compassionate Conservatism. In that matter, he too failed miserably. I agree with Thor about Homeland Security – get rid of much of it.

    But Bush’s management of private business was on the correct path. Regulations are mostly a joke and an unnecessary cost. Sarbanes Oxley proved that in spades.

    And Obama has double down on the stupidity. I mean it when I say Obama couldn’t manage a fruit stand. He has absolutely no experience and no concept of private business or free enterprise. He’s acting as Community Organizing President and his economic advisers are a bunch of lunatic academicians just like him.

  68. Do you like ice cream?

    I sure have acquired a fondness of it over the years. Many times over indulging. But back then I was burning many more calories. Now I splurge on big wheels ice cream sandwiches probably more than I should.

    Don’t all cultures think their’s superior? Isn’t that what it is about? The best way to live collectively as determined by your elders on down. Then, in the modern era a culture could sell itself globally as superior, much as we have done. Our lure brought many out of their culture to embrace our way. Now many leave it.

    The results of a culture will better determine how superior it is/was. The fruits, as it were. There was a long season of good fruit here.
    Now, our culture collectively is shit. There are benefits from shit, but they are over all minimal in the grand scope. It wasn’t always like that, at least I never perceived it that way until recently. I see massive ways we could change it and none of it being seriously considered.

    Apathy by design, structured disease of modern man.

  69. I have a question for Noah. Is there any reason why you refuse to just comment without accompanying it with an insult? I’ve noticed that you claim to want debate and exchange of ideas, yet you pretty much without exception put the “Comrade,” or “Your Messiah” or similar not very subtle insults or digs into every comment. You claim to be a Christian, yet more than anyone who comes here (other than Poolman with his awful anti-semitic ugliness) you seem to be the opposite of a Christian. So why? What do you get out of your constant insults and mean-spiritedness?

  70. Our government doesn’t work. But try selling that to over half of the population that benefits solely from Uncle. If it wasn’t for Uncle, they’d have no source. No matter what side of the aisle they claim a part, more government is never better. We haven’t been sowing a wise crop. Dependence cannot be independence by definition. Collectivism is working against us all, The work horses are failing under the increasing burden of the folks driving and riding the bandwagon.

    Be it Aboma and Ibend or Rmoney and Rayn, the band still has the gig.

  71. I’d like to offer a response to :

    A question prompted by my brainwashing MSNBC: which is the more urgent problem, unemployment or the deficit?

    THE DEFICIT hands down,all day,by a mile.

  72. ‘BHO’s goal is to break America so he can rebuild it in his image and be remembered in history for all time. He could not just take something handed to him and make it better, no, he has to totally remake it and the only way that can be done is from the bottom up. FDR and company got a try at this and failed but are hailed as the champions who got us out of the last depression which we now know is hogwash. If America’s economic engine is shut off, it might not ever really be restarted because politician like BHO will make sure that it doesn’t. To make America into this new idea, America’s power has to be dealt with and that is its economy. Bring it down and bring down the USA for all time.

    Everything is tracking along right on schedule.

    Gas and food prices going through the roof. Pretty soon you will not be able to hide how bad things really are for the average American. By that time, he will already have secured his second term and be turning the screws down tighter on every facet of the economy.

    He wants everyone in this country in the same boat. Savings spent, assets sold off, debts piled high, food stamp enrolled, welfare check in hand. Welcome to the new American depression propped up with government handouts. Thats if you can even get them when you REALLY need them.

    Prepare now, make a life boat for your family and friends while you can…maybe you’ll be able to bridge the gap between insanity and real hope. You should have been doing this as soon as this guy got elected but its never too late to start while you still have something to spend.

    He told us what he was going to do and that was fundamentally change America…what do you believe that change was/is?’

  73. Anti-semitic ugliness? I think anti-zionist better fits. But then I think zionism is racism on steroids, wielding its global power and influence.

    I think anyone that cannot see clearly through labels is blinded by them.

  74. No, Poolman. I am sorry but you and I will never agree on this. You trivialize the murder, torture, starvation, and robbery of millions of men, women and children. Have you ever been to the Holy Land? Have you ever seen how terribly vulnerable it is?

  75. And Noah–thank you for posting a comment without an insult in it. I may think you go too far with your rhetoric even though I oppose a second term for Mr. Obama, but at least you presented your case without nastiness.

  76. No, Poolman. I am sorry but you and I will never agree on this. You trivialize the murder, torture, starvation, and robbery of millions of men, women and children. Have you ever been to the Holy Land? Have you ever seen how terribly vulnerable it is?

    You can draw your lines where you choose, Emily. We all have prejudice and opinion. But how do I trivialize any suffering? Are you speaking of present day events or those from past generations? Are we discussing Gaza or Palestine? Afghanistan? Iraq? Libya? Syria? I despise all human suffering, no matter from whom it’s administered.

    No Emily, I’ve never been to the “Holy Land”. I have known that there are 2 ways to tour the “Holy Land” and the perspectives are diametrically opposed. I don’t know that any land is holier than another. Holiness is a character of God. Now, I agree there are spiritual forces in great numbers concentrated more densely in certain geographical areas for various reasons, but as for holy, not really a physical attribute of land. We do hold certain things sacred, depending on our own system of value. If you are referring to the culture of vulnerability, I assure you it has infiltrated the entire globe. If you are referring to religious fervor, then yes it certainly has its tinderboxes.

  77. Rutherford,

    I’m not sure what to make of this post of yours yet, this “Defense of the Democratic Social Gospel.” It’s part of a larger quandary for me. But I do hope if I read it another two or three times and ignore the inanity of the comments section (with the obvious exceptions) – I might understand something that continues to baffle me. I don’t hold out much hope, since I’m fairly convinced that it’s completely asinine how the left applies a twisted understanding of that which they are completely clueless about to begin with (Christ, Christians, and the Bible) with the intent to marginalize conservatives. I don’t understand the ends, and I don’t understand the means. But you’re all pretty fluid about doing it, so it must make some sense to you, the collective.

    Thanks for the reference leading to BIC’s latest. His writings are so worthwhile to read, I love the occasional reminder to catch up there.

    On a somewhat related note to your original post, the night Mike Huckabee spoke at the RNC you had a reaction to his speech that stunned me. I’ve since passed off your outburst as merely an emotional overreaction to Huckabee’s opening statement, which was a silly crack about your beloved Baby Jane Hudsun-Schultz.

    You claim that you used to like Huckabee. I myself wasn’t so crazy about him before his speech that night – which was the best speech I personally ever heard him give and one of the better convention speeches I have heard overall.

    You on the other hand, found him that night to be “the WORST ambassador for Christianity [that night] that you had ever seen…

    …and that is something considering [you’ve] been consorting with Tex Taylor for the past few years.”

    The only thing I care to say about that now – aside from begging Tex’s pardon for bringing it up – is that your post today prompted me to hunt up Huckabee’s speech to remind myself what I liked about it that you disliked so much.

    For anyone with ears to hear, it’s a pretty good read.

    https://rutherfordl.wordpress.com/2012/09/07/a-defense-of-the-democrats-social-gospel/#comments

    And true to form, after a speech with so much meaning – agree or disagree with the content it was a “filled” speech – the focus of Huffpo’s response? I’m paraphrasing – “Huckabee takes a swipe at Wasserman-Schultz.”

    Amazing.

  78. Oh, and R, your current post (I said today’s post earlier, but I meant this current article) also reminded me why I ever started coming here in the first place.

    To understand.

  79. What a panderer that Huckabee is. I guess it’s required for these events and when you run that circuit. Sorry, muffy, sounds like the same old shit sandwich served on crusty white bread.

  80. “This post is a real head scratcher for me. Like everyone else here except Newt, I find nothing of value in it and wonder why it was written if R (assuming he was sober when he did).”

    I find it so amusing that everyone here has no problem with BiW’s post to which this is a response but my post causes “head scratching”. Not that surprising coming from half blind partisan hacks.

    But the real kicker is that Tigre throws in his insult AFTER he addresses the point of the post. So obviously he wasn’t scratching his head that much after all.

    Why was the post written? Any five year old could see as I explicitly stated it was a response to another post.

    More genius critique on display.

  81. “Muffy, it’s called facts … something your party has a real problem with. Empathy doesn’t mean denying the facts. Whether you like it or not, we have a slow recovery. Things are getting slowly better not worse. Does this comfort those currently unemployed? No. But it’s the truth.”

    No Rutherford. It’s called nonchalant spin for the express purpose of making the president look good. It’s lying about reality with a casualness in your voice to try and convince the poor SOB that he’s too dumb to understand the complexities and just needs to just accept the absurd notion that 23 million unemployed is not fucking UNACCEPTABLE.

  82. Of course the Bible is influential. It serves everyone. From love of fellow man to vengeance, it’s all in there. What’s not to love? It has been used to justify a whole host of good and evil. Damn right Skippy it’s influential.

  83. Tex, Jon Stewart whom you disdain ran a good piece on the DNC big tent hypocrisy. I’ll post it later when I’m back at my PC.

    Aside to Poolman: I was wrong about Antonio V. The amendment was preordained on the TelePrompTer the same way John Boehner’s was the week before. A real sham.

  84. I think, knowing how Comrade Rutherford argues, that while dancing about, his message to me anyway is clear. His little slip in the previous thread, without my urging, is the real Rutherford.

    Comrade Rutherford and the Left are for some form of Communism. They wants to see the freedom of religion abolished. They wants to see the government seize control of big corporations, big oil, and our various infrastructures, because they are convinced that the government knows best.

    Comrade Rutherford believes that as a Democratic nation, and with the freedoms that come with that, makes us weak and unfocused. That human nature as such will always cause those elite among us to lord over and exploit the many.

    Only by allowing the government to seize control, can we hope to have this “fairness” he is always blathering on about. When the government takes control, they will be able to make sure everyone gets their share. No one will be poor because the government will makesure they are taken care of. Racism will be a thing of he past because the government will makesure that it is wiped out. The elite, they will be just like the rest of us, trust me, the government will makesure of that. You see, all these Leftist policies that they have been fighting for decades to make come true, can be made to happen with a snap of the governments fingers(backed by our military, or Obama’s private military(who do you think is replacing our troops overseas?)) if we just trust them enough and allow them to run our lives.

    Have you ever noticed how Lefists rarely explain their intentions? How they are never quite clear how they intend to fix our country? They are so confident of their superiority, much in the way a parent feels they are superior to a small child, that trying to explain their intentions to us is pointless. We are too stupid, or misguided, or misinformed by Fox, to ever be able to understand. They know that they are acting in our best interests, and that one day, we will thank them.

  85. “Non religious persons also feel compelled to do charitable work so I really don’t get your message or BiW’s. Maybe I missed something in the translation.”

    Well Raji at least you read both posts critically.

    As for my Lehman comment where’s your beef? I thought the downfall of Lehman etc involved credit default swaps and other “sophisticated” instruments that failed. We could have had a housing bust without those shenanigans going on, no?

  86. I wrote the above prior to having read 113. Rather comical this line considering my point of view of the Left.

    [Why was the post written? Any five year old could see as I explicitly stated it was a response to another post. ]

    They are so assured of their own superiority.

  87. “private military?” Now you sound as nutty as Poolman. And too bad that you managed exactly one comment without falling into the cheap insults (Comrade). It’s unfortunate you can’t make points based on their merit. I do dislike bullies.

  88. Nuts are nutritious, considered a superfood. Many forms of life exist based entirely on the value found in nuts. Awfully nutty, eh? Just sayin…

  89. Newt Tex is not a racist. If either of his daughters brought home a black man as fiancé he’d have no problem … provided their name was Allen West or Thomas Sowell. 🙂

  90. Emily, what do you call a group of armed men, paid for by our government, that are not in the military? Your Messiah likes to call them security forces. I prefer to call them a private army.

  91. You know, I do feel bad about at least one aspect of calling whites racist. They almost without exception end up saying some variation of “some of my best friends are black.” 99% of the time it’s said sincerely and 100% of the time it compounds their rhetorical predicament. 🙂

  92. This is a perfect example of what I was saying. You have managed to miss the fact that I’m a Republican. Romney was not my first choice (or close to it)–Huntsman was. Ryan is an excellent pick. No, the fact that I dislike you has nothing to do with politics. It is because you appear to come on this blog for no reason other than to insult other people. You are a cheap bully.

    And my question earlier was why you cannot make a point without insulting someone. You claim that you want debate, you regularly insult Rutherford for not “responding” (as though this were your blog and he was required to sit motionless at his computer waiting for you to grace him with a comment), yet your actions are contrary to anyone who wants a debate. You refuse to stick to ideas or facts and virtually without exception resort to insults. This, to me, says you are someone who has no confidence in your positions and therefore try to prop yourself up by putting others down.

    Now, if you can manage–even a tiny bit–to identify the supposed “armed men” who never existed before the current administration, that would be most appreciated. Alternatively, you can continue to act like a jackass.

  93. @#127 Better an honest reply from the heart than a dismissive “there’s no such thing,” which is 100% nonsense 100% of the time.

  94. “Racism is not recognizing a difference in the color of one’s skin. If I were to describe Rutherford for instance, my first descriptor would be black – it’s his most obvious feature.”

    That of course is a bit odd in my case in that about 5% of the people who meet me think I’m black. “Passing by default” has haunted me my entire life and caused no small measure of guilt.

    No Tex unless you’re very unusual you (and most everyone else here) would describe me visually as disabled if you met me. I write about race more than about disability and that has warped your perception.

    I DO agree that merely describing someone as “black” does not make one a racist.

  95. We’re trying to establish white and black in a multicolored world. Race can be descriptive or divisive. Choose wisely.

  96. And another thing … not that I need to justify myself to Tex but I think the most accurate “rendition” of me can be found on the blog. I very consciously shoot to kill on Twitter. There is no room for nuance in 140 characters.

    On the radio most of the time I’m pretty moderate. Every now and then I go off on a rant (Tex NEVER does that). Gorilla busted me last week on my Mormon rant and I plead guilty as charged. Even so on the radio I’m performing.

    Honestly I think if I wanted to be judged by my words I’d choose this blog as example. I think I’m more genuine here than in other venues. Tex prefers to think otherwise because of confirmation bias.

  97. Newt Tex is not a racist.

    I agree. He’s a bigot. There’s a difference. Tex would love to mold everyone in his image. He knows best, and dooooooooon’t you forget it. He’ll remind you if you stray.

    Blessed with a talent to curse. Oxymoronic, yes, but not unlike the way we’ve all come to know him.

  98. Newt part of the problem in the discussion is that there is no black or white culture. Historically West Indian blacks have embraced a different culture than slave-legacy blacks. Similarly Irish whites have different cultural traditions from Italian whites.

    I think many blacks HAVE been guilty of embracing ignorance as culture. Pants hanging halfway down your ass is not culture, it’s ignorant. Notice however that no one defines Jersey Shore as white culture. That’s where a double standard kicks in.

  99. Yeah I’m a FP wonk….:))

    Rutherford sovereign states can decide their capital.Bonn to Berlin.
    There was a law passed in 1995 that dictates a move of the US Embassy to Jerusalem.Was it symbolic? Still a law with a major loophole intact,security.

    I disagree that you and Newt are using full source material re Obama and Israel. Net effect is pretty clear though if you’re honest. Obama has maintained a level of alliance and cooperation. Obama has been more pro-Palestinian than the previous (R) administration. Obama’s positions whether right or wrong on an intellectual level DO undermine Israel’s internal policy,again whether those are right or wrong.
    I could get wonkier but I need to cook some food.

  100. Tex you puzzle the living f*ck out of me. What Jesus “said” is related by third parties. What makes you so cock sure he really said it?

    My new theory which is probably the one I will take to my grave is that Jesus was a spiritual man who preached peace, was murdered as are so many peace makers and then exploited to build a religion run by the powerful to control the ignorant masses.

    The more I think about this using common sense the more I think Jesus would be appalled at what has been developed in his name.

  101. “how about if you fellows trade emails and take this offline? You’re never going to agree and you’re clogging up my email.”

    Playful you have discovered how my blog threads work. Look at the other articles and you will find few with less than 300 comments.

    It might be wise for you to not subscribe to the comments and instead just read them online. Otherwise your email will get “clogged”. 🙂

  102. Emily, you really are a nasty little minx. “Now, if you can manage–even a tiny bit–to identify the supposed “armed men” who never existed

    “A report says that Iraq and Afghanistan are being left to mercenaries, as the number of private contractors in both countries has risen by over a quarter – all with the approval of the White House.

    It has been revealed the number of private security contractors working for the U.S. war effort in Iraq and Afghanistan has greatly increased by up to 30% since President Obama came to office.

    While troops are being pulled out, a Pentagon report says that the number of contractors working for the US Defense Department has increased dramatically.

    This figure has now swollen to 250,000 outsource personnel working for companies such as Blackwater and Triple Canopy, and this process could be called a “privatization of war”.

    25% of all the troops in Iraq are private contractors, while the number of private security contractors in Afghanistan is even higher – practically 30%.

    This means that, even though President Barack Obama promised he would withdraw troops from Iraq, we see quite the opposite: an increase of private security personnel deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. This essentially allows Washington to keep its grip on the operations taking place in both countries.”

    You were saying nutter?

  103. “You seem to have forgotten the first, memorable part about Tex Taylor. I said personal; not Romney or Akin.”

    Sorry, I’m still stumped. And you’re right. My memory really sucks of late. I blame it on chronic hypoxia.

  104. @118 “We could have had a housing bust without those shenanigans going on, no?”

    No Rutherford, the shenanigans caused the housing bust. It’s all tied up in subprime mortgages. Trying to keep this short, the fact is if the default mortgages had not been “Bundled” and sold the individual mortgage crisis could have been kept to a manageable level only involving bank by bank.

  105. I am no Obama fan, but he hardly started the use of private companies such as Blackhawk. And, frankly, I’d far rather see them in danger than our troops. However, can you kindly provide the source, rather than simply say “a report?” As for being “nasty,” if you stop with the insults, I will be more than happy to do likewise.

  106. So Tex (and others) would you agree with the statement that improving the employment situation takes priority over deficit reduction short term?

    I ask this because a writer for Business Insider this morning said “there is no debt crisis” and unfortunately didn’t explain himself other than to say we must tackle unemployment first.

  107. @ 136 “The more I think about this using common sense the more I think Jesus would be appalled at what has been developed in his name.”

    That statement I would agree with but have to agree with Alfie, “why did you steer the thread there” instead of the coliseum.

  108. and please don’t say “a Pentagon report.” Who reported this, please? I have noticed that you often cite sources that are questionable.

    However, as I think about it, even if this is factually based, your conclusion is somewhat off the mark. This is hardly a “private army” or anything new. It is, if anything, a continuation and possible expansion of the use of private security firms that were used under the previous administration (and I imagine before Mr. Bush). Did you object then?

  109. “If America’s economic engine is shut off, it might not ever really be restarted because politician like BHO will make sure that it doesn’t”

    Yeah reviving the auto industry really shut off that economic engine.

    More right wing nutjobbery.

  110. “And you can call Big O a friend to Israel. But that ain’t their opinion, try as you must to spin.”

    I think Ehud Barak would disagree.

    And I think Binjamin Netanyahu, the very man who makes Barack Obama look the rank amateur every time, would disagree with you.

    But then, you would do anything, and I mean anything, to try and protect your poseur for President.

  111. The Rutherfordian faith now accepts Jesus as a factual figure that gave it all up for peace and then was MLKed to the max by the PTB.

    That’s a step in the right direction. You do have the rest of the journey before you, don’t get caught in well established ruts.

  112. My new theory which is probably the one I will take to my grave is that Jesus was a spiritual man who preached peace, was murdered as are so many peace makers and then exploited to build a religion run by the powerful to control the ignorant masses.

    About as good a theory as Obama a shrewd business man. Exploited by 500 eye witnesses too. Love it.

    Believe as you must.

  113. Yeah reviving the auto industry really shut off that economic engine.

    How can a man be so confused about Lehman and AIG, then follow it with this? 😆 😆 😆

    Really revving, Rutherford. Maybe that ought to be your middle name.

    Chrysler owned by Italy, GM owned by $25,000,000,000 in debt it won’t repay, and Ford?

    Revving at 6,000RPM! Not…

    http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=F+Interactive#symbol=f;range=2y;compare=;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;

  114. Rutherford, with some of these really astute economic evaluations you have made in the last 24 hours, you sure you’re not just shucking us and you’re really the head of Obama’s economic council working in close cahoots with Jolting Joe Biden?

    If not, you sure appear to be. Recover Summer III!

    Forward!

  115. Newt Tex is not a racist. If either of his daughters brought home a black man as fiancé he’d have no problem … provided their name was Allen West or Thomas Sowell. 🙂

    Correct. Now you’re waking up.

  116. I agree. He’s a bigot. There’s a difference. Tex would love to mold everyone in his image. He knows best, and dooooooooon’t you forget it. He’ll remind you if you stray.

    Anyone calling me a bigot that’s a Holocaust denier and rabid Jew hater, replete with White Supremacist links surely does carry a great amount of credibility in my book to cast judgment about bigotry.

    In fact Tool™, I’ll bet your opinions carry a tremendous amount of credibility with everyone you’ve touched.

    You are correct about one thing by accident, of course Tool™. I’m a bigot when it comes to you. In fact, if they ever elect me king, I’m going to line you up in front of a firing squad first thing.

    What I really would like to do is hang a rope around your neck and see how fast you can run behind a car – with me at the wheel. 🙂

    That puts a huge grin across my face just thinking about the glory of it. 😉

  117. Something I hadn’t brought up about the DNC was the yelling and finger point gesture that Biden and a few others went whole hog on. Man I found that disturbing. Turn down the sound and I’m up against the wall catching hell for coming home after midnight on a school night.

    I was just watching his mouth and finger and thinking I wish he had dentures instead of implants so they would just come flying out of his mouth midstream. That would have been the highlight of 200+ years of political speechifying.

  118. Emily, as a supposed non Messiah person, your willing to dismiss his involvement for no other reason than the premise that he didn’t start it tells me another story.

    As you hold yourself in such high regard, I am sure you will have no problem locating articles concerning this topic from many sources I am sure you will find very credible, like NPR for example.

  119. Raji, I see no systemic danger in bundling mortgages and creating bonds out of them. Of course, if fraud is involved, in this case masking sub prime mortgages as solid, then it’s a cluster fuck. But fraud can fuck up a lemonaid stand. A little ice, some suger and a butter knife to take off the white suds at the top of the glass and your drinking piss.

  120. I didn’t dismiss his involvement, Noah. I asked you to back up a statement you made. If you are unwilling to do so, I will assume that it’s either (a) your innate unpleasantness and lack of Christian values and behavior; or (b) your inability to do so. As previously noted, I have little use for bullies.

  121. Oh, and Noah–as someone who constantly carries on about how people don’t respond to his questions, you failed to answer mine. Did you object to the use of firms such as Blackhawk in the past? If you did, I admire your consistency. If you did not, what has changed other than the administration? Or do you have a number over which you believe is improper? Simply applying the same questions to you that you believe others must answer when you pose them.

  122. “But fraud can fuck up a lemonaid stand. A little ice, some suger and a butter knife to take off the white suds at the top of the glass and your drinking piss.”


    _________
    I I I I
    I I I I
    I I I I
    I I I I
    I_______ I________ I I________

  123. DR , I am in complete agreement and that is how the system should have worked but way too much lemonade was replaced by “piss” (a great analogy)

  124. Must be right Rutherford and Tex confirms it, he would be fine with a conservative Republican black son-in-law. My husband told me Clarence Thomas had no other option but to marry a white woman. He couldn’t find a black woman who would agree with him. I will have to disagree with you Rutherford on rather blacks in this country have their own culture.

  125. @165 “Something I hadn’t brought up about the DNC was the yelling and finger point ”

    Muffy, you should have tried just listening to the radio as I did. Yikes, talk about assaulting one’s senses.

  126. Muffy thanks for reminding me of the swipe at Tex. I had honestly forgotten about it.

    I sometimes underestimate how much words can sting. I didn’t even consider that a swipe at Tex. I considered it fact. When Tex talks ABOUT Christianity he does it well enough. But on other topics his poison-tipped-tongue does not come across at all Christian by my reckoning. And that was my gripe with Huckabee. He’s a man of God yet while I no longer remember the specifics his speech was snarky, petty and nasty.

    In any case, Tex I’m surprised you found my comment a personal shot. I thought you already knew that when you are at your worst, you don’t impress me as terribly Christian.

  127. As a person who doesn’t answer your question Emily for reasons I have mentioned so many times it makes me wonder as to your mental state, I will respond. Yes I am opposed to our government having a private army. The President in office has nothing to do with this belief, as it is wrong regardless.

    As for admiring my consistency, that is a Leftist/Liberal notion in my book. Conservatives for the most part automatically assume that from each other because (A) our Christian values and (B) the Lefts arguments are so baseless, lying and being inconsistent is not needed. We tend to leave tactics like that to the experts.

    “Oh, and Noah–as someone who constantly carries on about how people”

    To be clear since you were not, this statement has been made about one person and one person only. Lets not continue to misrepresent the truth.

    “I didn’t dismiss his involvement, Noah.”

    I am no Obama fan, but he hardly started the use of private companies such as Blackhawk”

    I guess we agree to disagree.

  128. Good grief you’re impenetrable sometimes, Rutherford.

    Your thoughts on the matter – your “reckoning” – of “Christian” means nothing. You’re lacking in any discernment whatsoever on the subject. That doesn’t mean it wasn’t personal.

    Just forget I brought it up. It was stupid of me.

  129. That puts a huge grin across my face just thinking about the glory of it.

    I love to bring joy. Some bring joy when they arrive, others when they leave. And I’m full of it. Joy, that is. 😉

  130. This current racist-go-round reminds me of a puny fracas over at Fat Grannies a long long time ago. A commenter who wasn’t known to the usual gang of idiots made what I thought was a rather mild remark disagreeing with the precious “hostess” on some tired old race card the phony batch threw in lieu of any genuine insight. The pie faces went characteristically ballistic at the interloper, one of them going so far as to suggest the woman go don her white hood. She calmly replied that, being black herself, she didn’t own one.

  131. From 2001 until 2007, Blackwater increased its federal contracts from less than $1 million to more than $500 million. Perhaps you might wish to check the facts before denying that the use of firms such as Blackwater did not begin with the current administration. I am pleased to know that you objected to this in the past as you do now.

    My mental state is just fine, thank you. Yours seems to be a bit iffy. Why DO you find it so hard to post a comment here without insulting the host? And I don’t believe that you have answered that question.

  132. Tex opined:
    {snip of about 500 words of nonsense}

    “you’re nothing but a vile subset of misanthrope with a chip on his shoulder,”

    Actually, I think of myself as a rather jolly fellow.

  133. And how can you criticize Rutherford for not answering your questions when you refuse to answer questions posed to you? Do you view yourself as someone who isn’t capable of defending your behavior? Or who can’t say, simply “Emily–I always insult Rutherford because I like to be nasty to people. It makes me feel good. I don’t do it when people know me because there are repercussions, but on the internet I get to indulge my true and unpleasant nature.” That would appear to be the truth.

  134. PMC’s are a reality and have been on the global scene for some time. They have been scorned and outlawed just as they have been accepted and made wealthy.
    One example I can offer is somewhat ironic. The UN is today exploring the use of PMC’s. They chased XO out of of Sierra Leone after that company saved the nation. The UN with much more resources failed to keep it.
    The term contractor has a lot of applications when it comes to the US especially in Iraq and Afghanistan. I think folks misrepresent reality when they deem these entities to be a private army.
    The three primary US government agencies employing PMC’s are: DoD,State and USAID. Contractors of the armed variety serve to protect diplomats and VIPs,security of various installations as well as training of police. Iraq and Afghanistan are totally unstable and when you need armed forces to guard a pothole crew PMC’s kind of make sense.
    The USA has experienced a number of pro’s and cons secondary to the use of PMCs.(infamous Nisour Sq. incident to GAO report highlighting cost effectiveness,Wartime Cont. Comm. report highlighting waste and fraud) It is pretty inconceivable though how the US isn’t to use them. In Iraq alone it is said that the protection contract for the Embassy numbers over 5,000 people. Is there anyone of any political stripe here who actually advocates a permanent deployment of US Marines at that level ? On Embassy duty?

  135. “What you read is entirely Jesus and entirely His message. So either call him a liar, a lunatic or messiah.”

    I haven’t studied the Christian myths in a long time, but to my recollection, if you assume Jesus really existed – which I think he probably did – I don’t think he referred to himself as holy – ever. The bible was written after his death, with the good stuff left in (the parts that consolidated power and profit in the church) and the, um…less flattering parts left out. As holy books go, it’s a mishmosh of fable, untruths, self-contradictions – pretty poor work, actually.

    Of course, it doesn’t take a work of art to sway the naturally credulous.

    I’ve nothing against your Jesus; I rather like your Jesus; if he existed, he was probably a good dude; he just wasn’t smart enough to keep his mouth shut.

    **************

    Contradictions? How much time you got?

    NUM 12:3: “Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the fact of the earth.”

    NUM 31:14, 17, 18: “And Moses was wroth…And Moses said unto them, “Have ye saved all the women alive? … Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman, … But all the women children … keep alive for yourselves.”

    Meek, or a murdering sonofabitch? Which is it?

    Now then, how did Judas die?

    ACT 1:18: “Now this man (Judas) purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.”

    MAT 27:5-7: “And he (Judas) cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests…bought with them the potter’s field.”

    Or maybe God sewed his guts up and he hanged himself later. Or maybe we just don’t understand what they really meant; perhaps what that REALLY means is, he was hung. You know, like Rutherford. LOL

    (I said I wouldn’t get suckered into any scriptural debate, but I’ll do those two and bag it.) Google the rest up; it’s a trivial exercise.

  136. Where’s the inconsistencies, Pfesser? And where’s the nonsense?

    I defy you to find one word of nonsense, as I just hit you with about 15 facts disputing your profound ignorance concerning the consistency of the Bible and its importance vis-a-vis that idiocy you posted previously.

    The fact you’re too cowardly to hold court does change the fact you have no idea what you’re talking about, you’re actually not a jolly old fellow, and at least in this conversation, you’re in over your head.

    Go celebrate your association with Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot and call me in the morning, doctor. 😉

  137. which I think he probably did – I don’t think he referred to himself as holy – ever.

    I need to read no further to demonstrate you don’t know what you are talking about. What’s new? I stopped there.

    Matt. 4:7; Luke 4:12 – Jesus tells satan, “you shall not tempt the Lord your God” in reference to Himself.

    Matt. 5:21-22; 27-28; 31-32; 33-34; 38-39; 43-44 – Jesus makes Himself equal to God when He declares, “You heard it said…but I say to you..”

    Matt. 7:21-22; Luke 6:46 – not everyone who says to Jesus, “Lord, Lord.” Jesus calls Himself Lord, which is God.

    Matt. 9:2; Mark 2:5; Luke 5:20; 7:48 – Jesus forgives sins. Only God can forgive sins.

    Matt. 12:8; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5 – Jesus says that He is “Lord of the Sabbath.” He is the Lord of God’s law which means He is God.

    Matt. 18:20 – Jesus says where two or three are gathered in His name, there He is in the midst of them.

    Matt. 21:3; Luke 19:31,34 – Jesus calls himself “Lord.” “The Lord has need of them.”

    Matt. 26:64; Mark 14:62; Luke 22:70 – Jesus acknowledges that He is the Son of God.

    Matt. 28:20 – Jesus said He is with us always, even unto the end of the world. Only God is omnipresent.

    Luke 8:39 – Luke reports that Jesus said “tell how much God has done for you.” And the man declared how much Jesus did.

    Luke 17:18 – Jesus asks why the other nine lepers did not come back to give praise to Him, God, except the Samaritan leper.

    Luke 19:38,40 – Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord. If these were silent, the very stones would cry out.

    John 5:18 – Jesus claimed to be God. The Jews knew this because Jesus called God His Father and made Himself equal to God. This is why Jesus was crucified.

    John 5:21-22 – Jesus gives life and says that all judgment has been given to Him by the Father.

    John 5:23 – Jesus equates Himself with the Father, “whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.”

    John 6:38 – Jesus says, “For I have come down from heaven.”

    John 8:12 – Jesus says “I am the light of the world.” – 1 John 1:5 – God is light and in him there is no darkness at all.

    John 8:19 – Jesus says, “if you knew me, you would know my Father also.”

    John 8:23 – Jesus says that He is not of this world. Only God is not of this world.

    John 8:58 – Jesus says, “Before Abraham was, I AM.” Exodus 3:14 – “I AM” means “YHWH,” which means God.

    John 10:18 – Jesus says He has the power to lay down His life and take it up again – Gal. 1:1 – God raised Jesus to life.

    John 10:30 – Jesus says, “I and the Father are one.” They are equal. The Jews even claimed Jesus made Himself equal to God. Jesus’ statement in John 14:28, “the Father is greater than I,” cannot contradict John 10:30 (the Word of God is never in conflict). Jesus’ statement in John 14:28 simply refers to His human messianic role as servant and slave, which He, and not the Father or the Holy Spirit, undertook in the flesh.

    John 10:36 – again, Jesus claims that He is “the Son of God.”

    John 10:38; 14:10 – “the Father is in me and I am in the Father” means the Father and Son are equal.

    John 12:45 – Jesus says, “He who sees Me sees Him who sent Me.” God the Father is equal to God the Son.

    John 13:13 – Jesus says, “You call me Teacher and Lord and you are right for so I AM.”

    John 14:6 – Jesus says “I am the way, and the truth and the life.” Only God is the way, the truth and the life.

    John 16:15 – Jesus says, “all things that the Father has are Mine.” Jesus has everything God has which makes Him God.

    John 16:28 – Jesus says that “He came from the Father and has come into the world.”

    John 17:5,24 – Jesus’ desire is for us to behold His glory which He had before the foundation of the world.

    John 20:17 – Jesus distinguishes His relationship to the Father from our relationship by saying “My Father and your Father.”

    Rev. 1:8 – God says He is the “Alpha and the Omega.” In Rev. 22:13, Jesus also says He is the “Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the beginning and the end.” The only possible conclusion one can reach is that Jesus is equal to the Lord God.

    Rev. 1:17 – Jesus says again, “I am the First and the Last.” This is in reference to the God prophesied by Isaiah in Isaiah 44:6, 41:4, 48:12.

    Rev. 1:18 – Jesus, the First and the Last, also says “I died, and behold, I am alive for evermore.” When did God ever die? He only did in the humanity of Jesus Christ our Lord and God.

    The rest of what you posted isn’t contradiction in the least. It’s fact.

  138. ” Perhaps you might wish to check the facts before denying that the use of firms such as Blackwater did not begin with the current administration.”

    Quote me where I said it began with the current administration please.

  139. I usually try to stay away from the faith stuff and I do like to not rattle peoples passions but I have to say DAMN that was a quick response from Tex.

  140. emily opined: “And my question earlier was why you (Noah) cannot make a point without insulting someone. You claim that you want debate, you regularly insult Rutherford for not “responding”…&c &c”

    and noah responded: “Emily, you really are a nasty little minx.”

    Noah, you know I like you, but damned if she ain’t got you pegged. This IS Rutherford’s blog – which he could close within minutes if he wanted, yet he takes a round ass-whippin’ every day because he wants to hear what others have to say. Jesus, man, attack the dickens out of his ideas – (that should be easy, LOL), but show a little respect, will you?

    Emily – FWIW, please carry on, in a strong fashion. I, for one, enjoy it.

  141. “I guess we agree to disagree.” Directly under the statement that I made about it not beginning with the current administration.

    As you would say to Rutherford, “still waiting.” Why are you unwilling to make your points without throwing in an insult at the host? What does the “Comrade” or “bitch” or “your Messiah” add to any genuine message you might be conveying? If you are unable to answer, please say so. That actually would make sense–that you simply don’t know why you use this blog as the equivalent of prank phone calls or leaving a bag of dog poop on someone’s doorstep.

  142. Pfesser,

    You are aware that verse you just read as supposed contradiction of meek and wroth, meek as it understood from the Aramaic means:

    Humility and submission – as in to the Lord?

    I think your profound knowledge and instinct of epistemology ends somewhere out there at the sexual romance novel in California. No offense, and I’m sure you a fine radiologist, but theology really isn’t your bag.

    Got anything better? And this time, perhaps you could follow instructions and specifically quote from the four books Rutherford listed?

  143. @alfie 194. Quick, yes, but the source is entirely self-serving and entirely self-referential. Of course the bible, whose whole purpose is to “prove” Jesus holy, would, well, prove him holy.

    Easily enough dealt with:

    I dispute your reference source. Find me another.

    ::::::crickets::::::::

    Want to ask me to do the same?

  144. I dispute your reference source. Find me another.

    You’ll have to be a little clearer in exactly that which you dispute.

    However, I grow bored with you, as I’ve battled with far superior scoffers – hence, the fast response.

    I’ve heard all this before.

    Drag out your Sam Harris books over your hearth and hit me up with something new so I at least have to think.

  145. whose whole purpose is to “prove” Jesus holy, would, well, prove him holy.

    That’s not in dispute. But you just said above Jesus never called Himself holy. I just showed you He did. Want more, or shall we call that a day?

    What is not in dispute is you don’t think Him holy. I’m shocked you think Him at all. 😀

    Don’t worry. You’ll get your chance to take it up with Him in 15-20 years. I believe the exact phrase one who did called Isaiah once referred to the instance….”Woe is me. I am a man of unclean lips.”

    If Isaiah thought that, I can’t imagine what your response is going to be. Maybe something like, “My life is hell….” Bingo.

  146. It’s a fake blog that feigns to be political where old misandrists go to die.

    😆 😆

    Somewhere, you and Rabbit really missed your calling. You guys could tag team and make a killing.

  147. “And how can you criticize Rutherford for not answering your questions when you refuse to answer questions posed to you?”

    Emily, is there some part of I don’t like you that you don’t understand? You’re a broken record saying the same bs over and over. If memory serves this makes the 3rd time we have had this conversation. You are welcome to close this particular question to your satisfaction. As per the two previous times, lets not engage each other from this point forward. k-thx.

    I have answered every question anyone has asked of me. I have nothing to hide and no reason to duck any questions.

    Pf
    I get you. I tried to engage Rutherford multiple times. 90% of the time he used, for lack of a better term, intellectually dishonest tactics. I let it slide a few times, but the trend continued. I then tried pointing them out, and the trend continues. So I offered up what are considered universally accepted rules of civilized debate. He openly rejected them, and the trend continued. At some point I feel I am justified calling a spade a spade. While respect is earned, I tend to give it in advanced until it is shown no to be deserved. I gave Rutherford two chances to drop the bs and return to civilized, honest debate, and was told to fuck off. As it is his blog he is certainly well within his rights to take that stance. I would much prefer to have a direct discussion about our ideology, and as I said in my last attempt to him, it is an open ended offer should he ever chose to debate that way. Until such time I feel no great pressing need to show him the respect he doesn’t show me.

    p.s. For the record, aside from overt commentary at my expense, the part where I feel the greatest offense is that he honestly believes I am stupid enough not to see his dishonest tactics for what they are. I would honestly prefer an outright lie.

  148. Now, on to Rutherford.

    Mr. Rutherford? You’ve made several accusations at moi with respect to the lack of my economic/financial proclivities on this thread alone. I’ve responded to your replies, challenged your conclusions, and proven you muddled and a dunderhead without so much as a but, or an or, or a why, or an apology.

    I really never expected the latter, of course. But couldn’t you at least give moi a hint that you were a tad bit wrong in your assessment for our resident genius? 😉

  149. By the way, Pfesser.

    I do owe you one apology, as perhaps without recognizing it, you’ve taken my advice and made sport of it.

    Unlike Tool™, your reaction and your conclusion to scripture is the right one. Better to be hot or cold. And you are as cold as ice.

    Therefore, in a grudging sort of way, I have far more respect to your conclusion than I do the Tool™’s.

    For what it is worth, you appear to be true to yourself.

  150. Well, Rutherford–there you go. You don’t “show respect” for someone who calls you “bitch” and acts like a bratty child and who throws “Messiah” into virtually every comment, with the occasional side-trip to “Comrade.” Which means that this paragon feels justified in continuing to act like a 10 year old who thinks that setting a paper bag of dog poop on fire and running away. But meanwhile, he can act all self-righteous and talk about “civilized debate.” How underwhelming.

    Tex: you are wicked smart, I think. That’s an old east coast compliment.

  151. PFesser, this offers a secular account of the existence of Christ and the chaotic fervor that ensued after his death regarding the persecution of the followers called Christians by others at the time. Of course, then Rome burnt under Nero, blah, blah, blah…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ

    Wiki is pretty accurate, even if a somewhat digested version. There are other sources, but most are religious based. There are at least a dozen accounts separate from the Bible.

    Jesus is mentioned in the Koran…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam

    and the Talmud…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_the_Talmud

    There is plenty of evidence to prove He lived. That wasn’t disputed until modern times. The question is whether He is who He says He is. About that, He does not leave any wiggle room.

  152. On the claim that Obama has been a friend to Israel.

    If memory serves there are photos of Obama at an Arab American Action Network banquet where he expresses that he supports Palestinians. He was seen making a toast to former PLO spokesman Rashad Khalidi, where he describes Israeli’s actions as “genocide against the Palestinian people.” I would say this makes Obama’s view on Israel quite clear.

  153. Tex opined: “That’s not in dispute. But you just said above Jesus never called Himself holy. I just showed you He did.”

    You “showed” no such thing. You offered in evidence quotes from single book. You only offered ONE source, which I dispute as not being authoritative. Have you others?

    “Want more, or shall we call that a day?”

    Your call; I’m still somewhat on California time, so I still have a little steam left.

    ********

    Along those lines, I flew back today from the Left Coast. I never fly cross-country but that I marvel at the beauty and sheer size of this magnificent country of ours. I always think also of what a travesty it is that the people in Washington are doing what they do to those people below.

  154. Holding you to your own standards Emily but could you quote me on this statement you made? Or admit you fabricated it, either is fine with me.

    “Perhaps you might wish to check the facts before denying that the use of firms such as Blackwater did not begin with the current administration.”

  155. Thank you Emily. I’m probably closer to white trash than wicked smart, but I do have a smart wife who keeps me on the straight and narrow.

    However, considering this one subject, I consider myself well read. It’s probably my only passion besides my kids – and the only thing that holds my interest to any degree. I realized one semester into med school, those attention deficits folks you hear talk were talking about me.

    Stick around long enough and you’ll find there are several folks here who are pretty bright in my book – some who even feign ignorance. I know better. 😉

    It’s really turned into a pretty unique blog for such a small outfit. Pfesser is right. If Rutherford were to chose to shut it down, I would miss it.

  156. Not your night, Noah. What your “memory serves” is the sort of story that makes the rounds–Snopes and other services have called it into question and there has never been proof of those statements. What is undisputed is that Mr. Obama opposed Palestinian statehood at the U.N. last year.

    I have many problems with Mr. Obama but choose not to make up ones that aren’t grounded in fact.

  157. Pfesser opined:

    You “showed” no such thing. You offered in evidence quotes from single book. You only offered ONE source, which I dispute as not being authoritative. Have you others?

    In the 1964 Olympics in the 4×100 meter dash, Bob Hayes came from eight meters back running the anchor position to win the gold medal for the United States. Before the race, Jocelyn Delecour, France’s anchor leg runner, famously said to Paul Drayton before the relay final that, “You can’t win, all you have is Bob Hayes.”

    Drayton was able to reply afterwards, “All you need…”

  158. No fabrication at all, Noah–and now you’re just acting stupid. You commented with a Poolman-worthy conspiracy claim about “Obama’s private military.” I asked you to support your statement and you came up with Blackwater. I responded that this was nothing new and that such firms had been used by prior administrations. You made the statement that we would “agree to disagree” when I pointed that out. I believe an understandable conclusion would be that you were disagreeing that the firms had been used prior to Obama.

    The fact is that you are seriously histrionic. You make wild statements based on frequently questionable sources and then you stretch even those. And you insult and belittle others who reject your tactics or tire of them. You then top it off by your pious statements about how you want “civilized debate.” I don’t think you’d know what civilized debate was if it projectile vomited all over you.

  159. I never fly cross-country but that I marvel at the beauty and sheer size of this magnificent country of ours. I always think also of what a travesty it is that the people in Washington are doing what they do to those people below.

    Agreed. And that very thought never fails to enter my mind when I drive 502 miles from our driveway to my wife’s driveway, and I think to myself, “I have drive all day and that was but 2% of our magnificent planet and but 15% of our country.

    We owe it to our kids to set things straight, Pfesser. Join me. We can agree to disagree about the eternal and get the here and now back to where it belongs.

  160. Oh–and it was 179 where you did the “agree to disagree.” But I will look forward to your source. Somehow “a report” doesn’t do much for your credibility.

  161. Emily, I forgot to mention Pakistan as one of the places these non trivial events occur daily. Seems we’ve (that’s you and me and the rest of the American citizenry) been fighting a proxy war there using drones and contractors, primarily Blackwater – or XE – or Academi – or whatever name they operate as today.

    I’d say the whole war on terror is fabricated and totally exacerbated by us. I would like to hear your opinion on that, if you have one.

  162. Between the DNC convention where they had to be asked 3 times to put God and Jerusalem back on the platform and the majority were opposed, and this add, I can say with certainty, that while my faith doesn’t tell me who I should vote for, it most definitely tells me who I cannot vote for.

    Democratic Ohio Sen. Sherrod Brown’s latest attack ad against Republican rival Josh Mandel calls him “the candidate of the big lie” — a term commonly associated with Nazi propagandists.

    “Josh Mandel: He has become the candidate of the big lie,” the ad, released Friday, states. It cites a column in the Cleveland Dispatch as the source of the quote, and goes on to say that Mandel — who is Jewish — might be the “most dishonest candidate in the country.”

    The ad does not mention Nazis, but the “big lie” expression was coined by Adolf Hitler, believing that the larger the distortion, the more likely it was to be believed. Nazi propaganda chief Joseph Goebbels also took up the term with the strategy that telling the lie often enough would eventually make people believe it.

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/ohio-dem-invokes-nazi-propaganda-tactic-in-calling-jewish-gop-opponent-candidate-of-the-big-lie/

  163. [You made the statement that we would “agree to disagree” when I pointed that out. I believe an understandable conclusion would be that you were disagreeing that the firms had been used prior to Obama. ]

    I am sorry your memory is so short that you were not able to remember this on your own without me holding your hand.

    I made the claim that you were dismissing Obama’s involvement by saying he didn’t start it. You denied this.

    I then linked your comment saying: I am no Obama fan, but he hardly started the use of private companies such as Blackhawk.

    To which I said, we agree to disagree. IE, you claim this is not a defense of Obama, I see it as nothing but a defense for Obama. I made no claims that your assertions were right wrong or indifferent, only that you were defending him by making that statement.

  164. So, set me straight here. Wonks are waiting for debates? Is that the next pinnacle? And then the both will likely claim victory and on to the erection election. Right? Whoever gives the best speeches and sells their brand of patriotism the best wins our permission to do unto others before they have a chance to do unto us. Now, even if those others are us yet deemed not us collectively. We need a mascot of the proper pedigree to steer the collective gracefully over the cliff. We see what we want to see and believe what we want while growing angrier at those who can’t see through our eyes. Fun. Isn’t this productive? Not. Who’s tasked to watch the bank? What is left of this nation’s bounty? Who’s taking care to note that we are not undermining other cultures and making ourselves less safe in that process? Who’s making sure we aren’t causing irreversible damage to our environment with the processes we perform? Nobody. We’re playing checkers in a game of chess.

  165. Sorry Poolman but RP is just too cooky to be Commander and Chief. Secretary of Treasury I would go for. Followers reflect the leader, and RP supporters are like no other in politics. Like you, they are obsessive almost to cult like status. Nothing in politics is done by accident, so something RP is doing, or not doing, is allowing his supporters to be this way. I remember an interview RP was doing, and RP, rather than answer a question he was sensitive too, took the mic off and prepared to walk away. The reporter stepped forward to follow RP, and this 6’5″ corn-fed redneck in a suit jacket steps between him and RP getting in his face and daring the reporter to ask another question, informing the interview was over.

  166. Proof once again the left plays no holds barred politics.

    Larry Flynt is at it again.

    The Hustler founder is offering a $1 million reward for information on Mitt Romney’s taxes, AdWeek reports. Flynt, an outspoken critic of Romney, is taking out two full page ads in Sunday’s issues of USA Today and The Washington Post to publicize the offer.

    The ad offers cash in exchange for “unreleased tax returns and/or details of his offshore assets, bank accounts and business partnerships.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/08/larry-flynt-mitt-romney-tax-returns_n_1867477.html

  167. Rutherford, It seems to me that the latest exchange between Tex and Pfesser regarding the Bible is exactly what you were trying to say over at BiW’s.

    It appears to me an exercise in futility.

  168. Oh, Good Lord–Noah: Grow up. You posted a comment about “Obama’s private military.” I indicated that this did not start under Obama. You responded that it didn’t make it right. I asked if you always had opposed it. You suggested that you had but didn’t address it directly. You still have not answered the fundamental question of whether you objected to the practice in prior administrations or not. If you did not, I view this as part of your irrational effort to seize on anything that you can attribute to this President or the “Left,” which is consistent with my view that you lack the ability to think critically.

    I have responded to your attempt to deflect attention from your hypocricy. At most, I misinterpreted one of your statements, attributing the “agree to disagree” comment to a different point than the one to which it was intended. OK–I’ll accept for purposes of argument that your “agree to disagree” was not directed towards the issue of when private security firms began to be used. You were speaking more generally–I get it.

    But the substance remains: what you called “Obama’s private military” are private security firms that do not report to and would have no personal loyalty to him. They are mercenaries. Whether you believe (as I understand Alfie does) or don’t believe (as you say you do not) in their use, your original point (oooh….scary times…Obama has a private army) was histrionic garbage worthy of a tin foil hat.

    You compound it with your latest: the statement about Larry Flynt as somehow reflecting on “the left.” Flynt is a pornographer. He is also someone who makes outrageous statements because it makes him money and gets him attention. I believe he offered the same million for nude photos of people like Jackie Kennedy. He may vote Democratic, but he is hardly emblematic of “the Left.” You live on generalizations and apparently aren’t capable of nuanced thinking or critical analysis.

    I won’t click on a link from you because you have demonstrated that you are a malicious person. If you’d like to explain what your youtube is, great. I’ll find it on my own. As for your link to the Blaze, that says a great deal about your limitations: a Glenn Beck site? I am laughing at you.

    At bottom, it’s Rutherford’s blog. As PFesser said, he shows unbelievable patience. It appears to be because he really does want to give a forum to different points of view. Were I he, I would ignore any comment of yours with an insult or demand, and answer only those that offer a reasoned, respectful point of view. That would not validate your juvenile behavior. However, it’s his decision.

    Newt: I went to that blog. Definitely not my deal. Appears to be a few people who use a bunch of names to comment. That’s obvious from the choice of words and syntax. Agree with whoever said it’s a fake site.

  169. Emily, at least now, when you read ‘fat grannies,’ you don’t feel like the ‘grownups’ are talking all around you and not letting you in on the conversation.

  170. Rutherford, It seems to me that the latest exchange between Tex and Pfesser regarding the Bible is exactly what you were trying to say over at BiW’s.

    It appears to me an exercise in futility.

    You’re right about the exchange in futility, as I have no intent of trying to open Pfesser’s eyes, nor could I. That wasn’t my purpose. It was simply to correct the record of accuracy concerning what is said.

    But you’re absolutely wrong about Rutherford. You don’t see the intent of what is happening, like you didn’t see the intent of proselytizing and pandering Obama to the Evangelicals in 2008. It’s pure malarkey with the only intent of forming more alliances for more government intervention under the guise of ‘goodness.’

    Once the argument of spending as solution was measured and resoundingly rejected in 2010, Democrats have resorted back the ‘feeling and conscience’ argument of religiosity. This is done with the always predictable class warfare of covetnous and welfare of some variety.

    As example, the Democratic Party is now trotting out liberal theologians with a veneer of religion, and ‘abortion on demand’ nuns to “justify” the adaptation to Caesar instead of self to administer charitable works.

    Rutherford is simply and predictably following the herd.

    Frankly, I’m surprised you don’t see that clearly, as you don’t strike me as naive.

    BIC is absolutely correct in his assessment.

  171. I don’t know what prompted 229, Noah.

    6’5″ corn-fed redneck in a suit jacket WTF? Is that you’re description? Colorful. Anyway, it seems this nation isn’t bad enough off yet to take Dr Paul seriously. We’re still a nation of boob tube aficionados, told what to think and say. But there is hope, the youth are getting it. I only see the liberty movement growing as the global cartel tightens their grip on the collective. At the least we can still afford to prepare popcorn and take in the ring side entertainment.

  172. Actually Emily, I am more interested in your lie that I used questionable sources. I would submit this is another of your fabricated lines. I will understand if you decide to take a pass on this particular fabrication.

    You call it childish to be able to back up one’s claims. I call it being responsible for one’s own words. I am not going to apologize little miss for standing my ground when you tried to purposefully misrepresent what I said. You have gone out of your way by twisting and manipulating everything I say on here like a good little leftist then whine when I take you to task proving you wrong time and again. Don’t cry to me because I outlast you rather than quit in frustration and let your little lies stand.

    You choose to pursue me. I asked you to go away. You keep coming back. I tell you to stop. You rant and rant and whine and cry when I finally engage you. Make up your dam mind.

  173. Noah,in all fairness and truth to Emily, you did not cite anything that could be verified. You alluded to a report from DoD but kind of left it at that.

  174. What prompted the statement Poolman is that it seems to me you are downplaying both the Messiah and Romney to recruit votes for RP. I am assuming by your posts that is who you are voting for and what your post was hinting at prior to mine. It isn’t a matter that we are not bad enough to need many of RP’s ideas, its just he is not the man to implement him at the CiC level. Being a CiC requires many different skill sets(ok you got me our current one skated by on this) and RP is lacking some. I think he is a visionary in some ways but like most savants, he is too focused in some areas, and this would ill serve him imo as President.

  175. Alfie: That is my point. Just saying “a report” is meaningless. Particularly in a world in which so much complete junk (on all sides of pretty much any issue) flies around and finds acceptance, I think it’s appropriate for anyone who purports to offer a point of view to substantiate it.

    Raji: Yes. Very much so. And that’s one reason that I find Noah so offensive. He has no credibility, says crazy things (Obama’s “private army”) and is so juvenile and laughable that people like him detract from the real values of conservatism. He’s kind of the equivalent of a clergyman who lives his personal life contrary to what he professes on the pulpit: he tarnishes the true message.

    Were Noah purporting to be a liberal, I wouldn’t care nearly as much. I might do a small “gee–I disagree with that” but that’s about it. But when he claims to represent the things in which I believe and then acts like a lunatic, fraud, or jackass, he cheapens the message. I wince to think how he must affect others’ views of values that are important and serious.

  176. Oh, and Noah–it’s not a “lie” that you use questionable sources. You regularly cite to the Blaze, Drudge, the Daily Caller, and similar nonsense. The fact that I call you out on your garbage does not mean that I am a “liar.” It means that you are willing to spread questionable statements.

  177. Just to follow up as it were…
    PMCs as they exist in the Iraq/Afghanistan theaters are at the absolute base mercenaries (physical security forces anyway) but there are deeper aspects to it all.
    There is an evolution afoot for PMCs and the genie came out of the bottle before Obama,before Bush. The evolution has been fast tracked and is gaining momentum as opposed to slowing even though those with their hands on the bottle talk of a desire to put the cap back on.
    PMCs makeup (physical security) follow two primary paths. Ex soldiers with an emphasis on special ops is one. The second is folks from poor nations enticed by promises of money. This second group mirrors how the UN deploys many a peacekeeping mission. It isn’t that Ugandans and Bangladeshi army units are awesome or their home countries so dedicated to peace,it is a money maker for the nations. The PMC angle on this has been seen vividly in sub-Sahran African nations.
    The US military is riddled with quasi and true privatization. Sealift Command to drones would be idled without private sector contracts. Sadly logistics in high scale operations have now come to be unsustainable without private enterprise involvement. (see the truck supply route controversy vis a vis Pakistan)
    Short of the draft and the embrace of total war doctrine I don’t see what is putting the genie back in the bottle.
    Do I approve of PMC’s and general privatization. Actually I don’t. The thing is though with money and technology and a myriad of other variables what is the alternative?

  178. May I reiterate:

    Rutherford, the exchange between you and BiW appears to me an exercise in futility.

    Futile,yes. But like me, BIC is simply setting the record straight of “what is said.”

    So while futile, the blame rests solely with Rutherford for attempting to utilizing a subject to justify the rational for even higher taxes substituting a subject he knows little about, and has admitted as much.

    Like BIC pointed out, watching a 30 minute video of brain surgery doesn’t make one a neurosurgeon, even if you do understand how to cut your bagel with a knife.

    I would suggest the leaders of Rutherford’s community of bankruptcy find another path of justification to rationalize the guilt if the class warfare and envy fails them.

    Liz Warren’s approach is as unseemly as telling a business owner he didn’t build his business because he didn’t build the street leading to the office, even if about 50% of his profit taken from him was at least partially allocated to do so.

  179. Alfie: Thank you again for your thoughts. You clearly are very well-informed about this and I find what you are saying to be very interesting. Do you agree that these are not groups that could be characterized as Noah did (as “Obama’s private military”)?

  180. Tex 245,kind of… I just read an op-ed by Christina Romer and it is so easily assailed it isn’t even funny.
    I do believe though that it captures the spirit of the divide that exists between folks like Rutherford and Newt (perhaps even Thor) and Me ,you,Tigre,Muffy etc.
    ***from the NYT**** the article

  181. This link came from Fox news, but of course as soon as I posted that you didn’t want to click on my links anymore. So lets see, against the blaze, against fox…and your not a Leftist?(snicker) Might want to work on your disguise a little more.

    But as I tell other leftists, the source doesn’t matter unless you can prove they are purposefully reporting lies. It is the information that matters. My story which you chose to ignore had a very credible reporter with John McCain talking about this subject. Now if you want to claim that Fox and McCain are all lying, that is your choice, but I highly doubt it.

  182. Alfie, surely there is one thing we all can agree. You can no longer say with any credibility – the platforms of both parties are basically the same. That’s intellectual dishonesty to say anything of the sort.

    The divide, assuming the platform facilitated and implemented (a big if) could not be more pronounced.

    You either believe in the power, benevolence and fairness of our government. Or you believe the power, benevolence and fairness rests with the citizenry. You either believe government knows better how to use our monies; or you believe individuals know better how to use their monies.

    You either believe in more government or you believe in less government.

    The choices are clear.

  183. “Oh, and Noah–it’s not a “lie” that you use questionable sources. You regularly cite to the Blaze, Drudge, the Daily Caller, and similar nonsense.”

    Sorry I thought you were still in the present and talking about our current topic. When you find yourself frustrated and your tactics failing, could you warn me when you are going off topic and choosing instead to talk about past events, that way we stay on the same page.

  184. Actually, there are many reputable sources. I believe in much of what the Wall Street Journal posts. I believe in governmental and non-partisan sources. I believe in Real Clear Politics and many of the writers that they publish. I view some people who are on Fox as credible and others as entertainers.

    Since the time I started coming to this blog and seeing what a nut and jerk you are, I made the decision not to post on any of your links. You immediately struck me as someone who would post unsafe links, just to try to cause problems for others.

    Sad, foolish little bully. You really can’t accept that someone who is a conservative Christian Republican disagrees with you because of your behavior. I suppose that’s easier than taking a look in the mirror. And, of course, you can avoid the fact that you are an ass to Rutherford (which precipitated this discussion) by claiming that people who point out what a child you are are “leftists.” Of course, that begs the question of what I could possibly gain by pretending to be of a different political persuasion. Never tried to change anyone’s mind. Never posted anything that has been discredited (other than by Poolman). Never did more than ask questions of people who I think are very smart and informed.

  185. Alfie, check post 227 for a link. I decided to go with video/audio as Emily finds most Conservative sources “questionable.” It is hard to dismiss information out of hand when there is video. Google search has quite a lot of info on the topic as well, which I pointed Emily to.

  186. What IS the “current topic,” Noah? If it is your claim about “Obama’s private military,” I believe Alfie completely refuted your attempt to characterize it that way. He is far more informed than I am on the topic, but I was able to recognize nonsensical hyperbole when I read it from you.

  187. @ Emily: I think there is a crossed wire in what Noah was trying to convey. I don’t wish to put words in his mouth but there seems to be a disconnect from the part of #117 that seems to have started your responses and the part of #138 that stoked some flames and initiated my interest.
    I have seen a number of cases where folks trotted out the Obama army horse. Be it his volunteers or the classic case where people took great exception to the ObamaCare line items that grew the USPHS. ( I had a post in April 2010 You Down with OPA? addressing that one.
    As for the PMC’s in theater now. I don’t see them as our private armies fighting our war. I see them as our fingerprint free proxies vainly attempting to maintain stability and presence. To that degree part of Noahs #138 is solid.
    This may be a long no answer answer but there it is.

  188. 237: Noah complains about the “lie” that he uses “questionable sources.” 243: I point out that Noah regularly cites to ones that I think most intelligent people would question. 250: Noah claims I am going “off topic,” while defending his posts–and ignoring that I won’t click on his links because I believe he is, at best, unbalanced and malicious.

    This is a repetition of the games he tries to play with Rutherford. Sorry–it’s not working if you’re trying to be annoying, Noah. You are just making a fool of yourself again.

  189. Yes Emily yet you cannot follow your own standards of posting without attacking. Not a very good role model are you?

    [immediately struck me as someone who would post unsafe links]

    Now listen bitch, you substantiate this claim or you go away. I have never posted any nefarious link and I never would. For someone claiming they are not a leftist, you sure toss about unfounded accusations line one. You are grasping at straws and you crossed the line. Prove it or ship out.

    As I have said about you before you are a broken record saying the same things over and over and over and over. How about you go back to not commenting to me deal?

  190. Still believe in the benevolence and providence of our mighty government, do you people? From our automated e-ticketing to our automated red light checking with no arena for debate, I have been noticing a great deal of technological ingenuity measuring our citizenry as of late – and always under the promise of community wishes. Really? I don’t recall taking any votes on this.

    I loathe the Tool™, but there is one worry he has every reason to worry IMHO.

    FBI begins installation of $1 billion face recognition system across America

    http://rt.com/usa/news/fbi-recognition-system-ngi-640/

    Unlike some here, I don’t believe we granted anyone in government the authority to do this, did we? It’s application opens up all sort of ramifications, does it not? Can anyone else here not see how a tool like this could be used in some incredibly insidious ways?

    Let me give you just one example….from that ‘fictional’ Bible as allegory:

    A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath.

    Perhaps one day you take out your debit card to get some cash, you place your face in a viewer, and you’re deemed null and void to its access?

    Or?

    How about a cashless society, where your validity for purchase is determined by a faceless bureaucrat as you stare into the view screen or have your rice sized chip analyzed as valid?

  191. This isn’t your blog, Noah. You don’t get to tell me to “go away” or “ship out.” Or, to be accurate, you don’t get to cause me to do so.

    The substantiation is exactly what I said. You have been so obnoxious and insulting and juvenile that you strike me as someone who would post what you call “nefarious links.” It is my imprssion of you, based on observing dozens of your comments and what I have considered inexcusable and immature baiting of the host.

    How about you stop insulting Rutherford and act consistent with your claim that you want “civilized debate.” Do that and you’ll never read another word directed at you. Continue with your “but he started it so I can act however I want” and I’ll continue to call you on it and your other nonsense rather than ignore you.

  192. Same old Emily, my last comment on this.

    There is no game here except for the one your playing. Your a manipulative bitch. You changed from talking about our current topic to talking about the past. You admitted this yourself.

    Look you lack the ability to be honest or even follow your own rules. I dont like to spend my time having to pick every little world trying to predict every possible way you will twist and manipulate it. Lets agree that we will never like each other and ignore the others posts. There is really no reasons for this bullshit. Again I will create a gmail account and you can harass me to your hearts content there.

    I am surprised you didn’t like fat grannies. They are awesome at the passive-aggressive attacks talking about other people in the third person. Emily, this has gone 10 miles past stupid and pointless, the final say is yours.

  193. Well I don’t know if all the parties involved really want to go here but just in case….
    @ Noah as a rule I don’t follow “blind” embeds or links so 227 was lost on me earlier. It is a good one but has some slant. In 188 I offered a GAO study. Unbiased? I won’t say that but I think this a great example that there are many sides to any argument.

    The contractors that cost the most and seem to be most involved in the scandals ($$$ ones anyway) have nothing to do with the physical security aspects.

    Let me ask a question. I saw where you objected to PMC’s. Is that based on ethics,morals or what?

  194. Alfie, I read the NYT.

    🙄 And it occurred to me while reading it. Christine Romer? Christine Romer? The stimulus and the recovery?

    And then finally the neurons kicked in…

  195. To your FBI link Tex. Nothing good can come from this. Our government being able to track every man women and child physically, while being able to track everything we buy, what we eat, where we go. Power corrupts and you can bet we will not be on the good end of the stick on this one.

  196. Just in case RT is frowned upon FBI
    I do agree though that the internet needs to be scrutinized more by both the virtual and real citizens of the world. Law enforcement at all levels have already embraced Facebook,Twitter and other social media as a source for crime solving and “crime prevention” There is a slippery slope.
    I loathe Facebook and preach against it every chance I get. Facebook= YOU ARE NOT THE CONSUMER YOU ARE THE PRODUCT!!!!!!.
    Don’t get me started on the passive submission millions do every day regards surrendering private information to retailers.
    Citizens should stay vigilant regards technology creep. If some folks have their way your milk will tell your refridgerator you need to buy more. The RFID tech is here now. Can’t you just see how folks will buy in2 this “convenience”.

  197. 227 Alfie was a youtube link. For whatever reason it insisted on putting the http on it even when I deleted it physically. IF I have lead you to believe that I post dangerous links then I wouldn’t click on them either.

    I assume the PMC is private military contractors? I object in this case because Obama is removing our military before the situation calls for them to leave for political gains and he is replacing them with private contractors that cost a lot more tax payer dollars. He feigns that it is saving lives, but a life is a life. If a soldier dies or a contractor dies, we still have lost a citizen of our country. This was a pure political move. This shows me Obama cares more for self than what is in our countries best interest.

    That aside, I do not want to see the government having an armed private force doing the military’s job. They do not have to play by the same rules as the military and as we have seen on numerous occasions already they have done things that would get a US solder a court-martial. It is just bad policy imo.

  198. @264 “I do agree though that the internet needs to be scrutinized more by both the virtual and real citizens of the world.”

    Apparently the FBI doesn’t need the public vote to forge ahead with this technology. The younger generation has been using social networking for so long that the concept of “privacy” is foreign to them. This is the generation that will allow this type of technology to progress to the tracking of our every move. Every time you use a debit or credit card or grocery store card your purchases are tracked and a profile is developed. Once you attach a face what more do you need?

  199. Is there anyone of any political stripe here who actually advocates a permanent deployment of US Marines at that level ? On Embassy duty?

    Somehow missed this statement you made. Somehow, 5000 seems excessive to me. That said we have military personal stationed all over the world on a “permanent” basis, so this is already a fact of life. By using our military we know they are supposed to follow a certain code of conduct so we feel reasonably safe in assuming when the shit hits the fan they will act properly. We have no assurances of any kind from private contractors. So to answer your question, yes I would want Marines stationed there if that is what it took to secure a US embassy.

  200. Wow! I just looked at a random comment and saw that Noah is willing to create a gmail account for incoming hate mail. I am impressed. How big of you Noah.

    I suggest when you create the account that you purchase a few extra terabytes of storage. 🙂

  201. The exchange involved me, Rutherford. I advocated for you to ignore any comment/question that contained an insult or was otherwise inappropriate so as not to validate that behavior. I have zero interest in a private correspondence with Noah. In fact, I have promised that if he stops with the juvenile behavior I will not comment on anything further that he says.

  202. You either believe in more government or you believe in less government.

    I believe in a lot less government. Or in the least, a lot better government. Too bad those aren’t any of the options on the upcoming ballot. :

  203. Yes, Brother Rutherford.

    Tell me again how we all are recovering so we can feel good about ourselves.

    In the last accounting available to us (May), America’s food stamp rolls increased by 173,000. In the last jobs numbers available to us (August), only 96,000 new jobs were created.

    Celebrate Failure.

    “Forward!!!!”

  204. “Your thoughts on the matter – your “reckoning” – of “Christian” means nothing. You’re lacking in any discernment whatsoever on the subject. ”

    If I remember correctly Muffy you don’t believe there is any such thing as “behaving Christian”. You believe Christianity begins and ends with acceptance of Christ as savior. With that definition Tex is an excellent ambassador of Christianity.

  205. PF I’m way behind on comments (again) but surely you know debating the Bible with Tex is a fools errand.

    First Tex’s ability to quote scripture is admirable. He knows his Bible probably better than I know any book I’ve ever read.

    Second, once you do isolate a contradiction Tex will astutely tell you English is not English and that you’re just too stupid to not get lost in the translations.

    It’s a no win dude. And hell, what’s to win? Tex’s faith is one of a handful of things that brings him peace. It WOULD be nice if he weren’t so arrogant about it.

  206. The war on humans is winning, big time. Meanwhile in the hood, Emily’s trying the straighten Noah’s divide and Tex stumbles in a rabbit hole. Welcome to the future your people forewarned. Digital. Man’s number. King David brought wrath on a nation for taking a census. Don’t worry, they’ll keep printing currency so the big axles remain greased for the final haul. Then they’ll have to do a Jubilee and issue new magick ids to the herd. Consider yourself branded.

    There’s only some 330 million of us, I believe. The youth are into everything digital. Any digital trace you make is collected and kept. Secure? That is relative. In the least, we’ve all established a marketing profile that is used to sell directly to us. We like the catered life and think it nice. We feel special. Best time to sink that hook. We like to keep our smart phones handy. A captive audience market. We’re easy pickins. Of course, Uncle would never do anything to harm us, in that we can rest assured. Right? Drones and hollow points are for our protection from all the terrorists that hate us for our freedoms. 🙄 Just keep shopping…

  207. Second, once you do isolate a contradiction Tex will astutely tell you English is not English and that you’re just too stupid to not get lost in the translations.

    The Bible was not penned in English, Rutherford. The Bible was written in three languages: Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek.

    If there is some confusion as to definition, you don’t go to Websters. You go the language it was penned. And that is exactly what the hundreds of translations available do.

    Meek in the context of all three means humility – not timidity. There is no contradiction of terms and there is no arrogance in setting the record straight.

    I give you a simple example – one I’m sure you’ve heard.

    When it says, the meek shall inherit the earth, it’s not saying the timid will inherit the earth.

    It is saying the humble and the obedient will inherit the earth.

  208. Oh Tool™ – You trying to be hip is like Wattle Jean trying to look pretty – doesn’t work.

    Your writing anymore has gone from ignorance to gibberish. If you find your new style clever & cutesy, you should reconsider, as it reads as deluded and unhinged. Like a white man dancing to hip hop. It’s ugly.

    So that even you can differentiate, I can tell the difference between the slippery slope of facial recognition software, tracking a car, and social networking say in comparison to a discussion of subliminal messages in Simpson cartoons, insect drones in my backyard, or our government destroying Building 7.

    I don’t expect you to understand.

  209. or our government destroying Building 7.

    I would like to get your take on that one. Seriously.

    Do you think there is no central file on you somewhere? Seriously?

    I may be a paranoid or a skeptic, or whatever you might want to call it, but you guys are snoozers. That’s some hex you’re under to miss the obvious characteristics and flaws in this deathstar’s armor. Even when specifically pointed out.

    I suppose drones are okay by you and the military patrolling the homeland peachy keen. No biggie that they’re picking folks up and holding them in psych hospitals against their will for posting stuff on facebook.

  210. Rutherford, you turn things upside down. What you characterize as arrogance is a level of humility you can’t possibly fathom. Your faith is in man – in yourself and in others. Recognizing that you’re nothing without Him is not arrogance. Do you bow your head in arrogance?

    Isaiah 45:9 “What sorrow awaits those who argue with their Creator. Does a clay pot argue with its maker? Does the clay dispute with the one who shapes it, saying, ‘Stop, you’re doing it wrong!’ Does the pot exclaim, ‘How clumsy can you be?’

    As far as “behaving Christian” and the rest of your readback to me – I try not to go to great lengths to elaborate for the purpose of trying to help you understand something that is like solid food to an infant. I can’t make you understand. It’s like “competence.” If someone possessed the capacity to understand the explanation of why they are incompetent, then they would be competent.

    So I said what I said – there is no such thing as a good Christian. You either believe on the Son of God and accept Christ as your Lord and Savior or you don’t. I stand by that.

    However you want to try and outsmart me or the Word of God or Tex or BIC to feel good about measuring anyone else’s worth or Christian-ness is your prerogative. But it remains meaningless.

  211. I broke this into 2 posts, and this is my last word.

    ”If I remember correctly Muffy you don’t believe there is any such thing as “behaving Christian”. You believe Christianity begins and ends with acceptance of Christ as savior. With that definition Tex is an excellent ambassador of Christianity.”

    Those are your words, Rutherford, not mine.

    From an earlier thread –

    340. Rutherford | August 13, 2012 at 8:35 am

    There is no such thing as a good Christian.
    You either believe that God sent His son to pay a debt He did not owe and one that we could not pay, or you don’t.

    I find this assessment fascinating. So Muffy, are you narrowing down Christianity to one simple belief divorced from any moral code? Are the ten commandments irrelevant? Please elaborate.

    374. muffy | August 13, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    ”Please elaborate.”

    Some other time perhaps.

    https://rutherfordl.wordpress.com/2012/08/11/and-the-vp-is/#comments

    ***

    Over and out. I’ll be seeing you.

  212. I was wondering if 277 was supposed to be some 21st century beatnik thing

    Beatnik? lol. How old are you, Alfie? I haven’t heard beatnik in years. Didn’t hippy replace that one? I could be wrong. 😆 I know we don’t always speak the same language, but we still need to communicate to coexist. That was a little coded, admittedly, but Tex picked up on the gist of it. He just doesn’t cotton to it. 😉

  213. @Rutherford 276 – Yeah, I know. As WC Dukenfield said, it wastes your time and annoys the pig. It’s hard to not be attracted to things that make no sense, though – if just to see what the thought process is behind them.

    Of course, it’s a one-legged stool. Kick the Book away, and the whole thing collapses, since, as I said above, it makes NO sense on any level. Just fantasy, alas…

  214. Pfessor, when I kick the stool none of it makes sense to me either. And I mean none of it.

    Life makes sense to you? Fuck man, what does that feel like? I find my existence to be as absurd as you find the “fables”. So absurd, in fact, why not at least try to take a leap? Particularly when the message is so beautiful and perfect. Not saying my feet leave the ground too often….but I try…usually late at night. The difference between us is I that feel like a jack ass when I mock it.

  215. Nothing me repels me from religion, organized or not, more then Poolman. I can deal with flawed motherfuckers who at least have an inkling of said flaws talking God.. But, pretentious self styled seekers of truth who, with hubris that makes me grind my teeth, do nothing but sow discord, spread rumors and lie, also claiming a special relationship with God? Weren’t false prophets at the bottom rung of Dante’s inferno? I think Id rather meet the poolman in hell then I would on the paradise side of the pearly gates. 🙂

  216. Lol. I’m glad I move you, rabbit. If you ever realize that truth isn’t red, white, and blue, maybe you’ll see the stool doesn’t need legs, we’re the ones that need them there.

  217. Of course, it’s a one-legged stool. Kick the Book away, and the whole thing collapses, since, as I said above, it makes NO sense on any level. Just fantasy, alas…

    Alas, that one legged stool has stood for 2,000 years, formed Western Culture, and will exist long after you are gone. Feeding off Rutherford makes for humorous reading, though as it will continue to succeed you both.

    The Church is an anvil which has worn out many hammers and the story of the first collision is, in essentials, the story of all.
    [1908 A. Maclaren Acts of Apostles i. 136]

    Pfesser opined: It’s hard to not be attracted to things that make no sense, though – To which I say you ought to know, believing it all arisen from the goo.

  218. Here is the thing Christians, no one chooses not to believe; if they don’t believe it is because they cannot believe. All the preaching and Bible thumping are not going to change that.

  219. Muffy for some reason your “wicked smart” link got spammed. I’ve retrieved it from SPAM hell. (Sorry for anyone who made comment number references, they may have shifted at this point.)

  220. You guys want to hear a funny story that just happened? Well, I thought it was funny anyway, but then my wife thinks I have a sick sense of humor.

    Two doors down, an elderly couple sold their two story home to some turd in California, who in turn undoubtedly turned it into a rent house. I would estimate 3-4 Mexican families live there and have for a couple of years, since I’ve seen as many as eight vehicles in the driveway at one time (all souped up or giant SUVs with massive rims) and there is FOUR Dish TV antennas sitting on top of their roof. 😮

    But they seem nice enough even if only the kids apparently can speak English, and I always smile and wave – they wave back. There’s a reasonably good elementary school in the nation that is popular.

    Their breaking about every by-law and covenant of the home owners association and there has been some grumbling I understand, but fortunately nobody has raised hell (until tonight).

    Anyway, the place is always quite but for some reason tonight they were partying away at about 11:00 in their backyard, playing that cha cha music and chattering like squirrels so loud, I could hear them two or three door down.

    I’m out taking the Mick for walk thinking to myself somebody is going to get pretty pissed here soon, when out of heavens, and I have no idea who yelled this but the guy had a hell of a baritone voice, I hear:

    HEY PEDRO! TIME TO KILL MUSIC!! ICE IS ON THE WAY!!!

    You could hear the record screech, I think. You’ve never seen a party end so abruptly. I looked out my window by the time I got Mick put up (five minutes max), and the street which had just been full of cars was empty. 😆 😆

    Got to love Oklahoma.

  221. “Completely untrue. Everyone’s wealth has increased dramatically since 1981 – every group including the poor. What you are referring to is that the “rich” which is actually the top 20%, not 1%. Their wealth has increased disproportionately and it is true that their wealth has increased far more. But that benefited you and me.
    How many households do you know that don’t have air conditioning, refrigeration, at least two TVs, a DVD, a computer, and two cars? Could you say the same in 1980? Even 1990?” – Tex

    The CBO begs to differ.

    That is an interesting list you offer. All would be considered consumable or rapidly depreciating assets. They don’t represent an expansion of wealth. Not like a business or large cap equity investments, or even land or a house does. Yes, our free market society has helped create what I believe to be the best place in the world to live, but I think that has as much or more to do with the productivity of the American worker than it does the “job creator” class.

  222. “PMCs as they exist in the Iraq/Afghanistan theaters are at the absolute base mercenaries (physical security forces anyway) but there are deeper aspects to it all.” – Alfie

    Alfie, wasn’t the falling out with Baghdad at the end of our “occupation” partly fueled by our solicitation of special status for contractors which the Iraqis refused to grant?

  223. R @ 282.

    Deadbeat Joe, what a piece of work. Skips on child support and then sings the praises of responsibility. And the truly ironic thing is, I have to pay for HIS pills. What a puke.

  224. “Of course, it’s a one-legged stool. Kick the Book away, and the whole thing collapses, since, as I said above, it makes NO sense on any level. Just fantasy, alas…” – Pf

    Pf, do you believe in quarks, black holes, gravity?

  225. Alfie @ 249.

    Good NY Times piece. I would like to see it be a little more severe, though. I would add … Homeland Security, gone. Pensions for members of Congress, gone. Nuclear arsenal reduced. On the revenue side … Nano fees on Wall Street transactions. Targeted tariffs. Lift the FICA cap.

  226. DR – “Life makes sense to you?”

    Sense? Yes. It all makes sense. Effect follows cause. I think you may mean, does it have a purpose? That’s a different question altogether. No, I don’t see one. I am just grateful (and I mean that in a general sense, not “grateful to someone”) for this short little period of existence, and the privilege of interacting with my family and friends.

    “I find my existence to be as absurd as you find the “fables.”

    The fact that one doesn’t understand a thing does not make it absurd.

    And herein lies the pitfall: when people don’t understand something, it is very troubling to them, and the human tendency is to just make up a story to explain it, rather than undertake serious research. (The constellations are real people who were taken into the sky – see, now we know. Mystery solved, so we don’t have to worry about it.) Taking a shortcut so you can explain something, just to make you feel better, is dishonest It’s a lack of discipline, really –

    “In fact, why not at least try to take a leap?”

    When the evidence is there, we can ALL take the leap, including the vast majority of humans who do not hold the Christian belief.

    “Particularly when the message is so beautiful and perfect.”

    As I ponder tomorrow’s date, I am inclined to disagree with you. “Beautiful and perfect.” That is what ALL religions say (I particularly like the “religion of peace” thing. Hilarious.). But get cross-threaded with them, and if they have the power, you will find them perfectly willing to impose their beliefs on you with force. No, irrational thinking leads to irrational acts.

    “Not saying my feet leave the ground too often….but I try…usually late at night. The difference between us is I that feel like a jack ass when I mock it.”

    That’s where we differ. I feel clean and honest.

    Note: DR – Not blowing sunshine up you-know-where, but I enjoy a real debate like this one – really appreciate sticking to the topic and leaving the personal stuff out of it.

  227. Thor, your CBO link apparently doesn’t work.

    They don’t represent an expansion of wealth. Not like a business or large cap equity investments, or even land or a house does.

    Where did you get your accounting or economics degree? 😯 Sorry, but any product, even depreciable counts as an expansion of wealth when accumulated. The more produced and sold, the greater the expansion of “wealth.” They don’t talk about widgets in economics 101 for grins when explaining supply and demand.

    If you’re going to use equity investments, land or a house fine – but remember. We are talking here about 1981-2007. That is what you are disputing as doesn’t work. And I say not only does it work, it works better than anything ever created.

    But I’ll counter with this, and you tell me where he’s wrong…Rutherford absolutely hates this video. Has a way of destroying this myth of rich man, poor man.

  228. thor noted: “Pf, do you believe in quarks, black holes, gravity?”

    Quarks – ‘way over my head. Black holes – yes. Gravity. Yes.

    These things are very, very different from gods, though. They are testable and refutable. That second word, refutable, is a VERY important word. Gods cannot be refuted, because they are by definition SUPER-NATURAL. They do not conform to known laws.

    Can I see a black hole? Nope, but I see its effects, as my own Milky Way circles the drain. Gravity? Yep, testable, refutable. As I pilot I can tell you that gravity is the one engine an airplane has that never fails. Never.

    As an EE, I have never seen, nor will I ever see, an electron. I cannot hold one in my hand or roll it across the table, but I can see its effects. And EVERY time I do an experiment with these putative particles, it comes out the SAME way. THAT is science.

    When I pray, sometimes it works, sometimes it does not – I’d guess, well, about 50% of the time, and the explanation is that – what? I didn’t pray hard enough? God was busy? How can you test it and find out? You can’t, and THAT is superstition.

  229. Just received this in an email. Quite good and quite accurate. Time to start correcting the history:

    ———

    DO YOU REMEMBER JANUARY 3, 2007? This can be a real eye opener.

    The day the Democrats took over was not January 22, 2009. It was actually January 3, 2007. The Democrats took over the House of Representatives and the Senate at the very start of the 110th Congress. The Democrat Party controlled a majority in both chambers for the first time since the end of the 103rd Congress in 1995.

    For those who are listening to the liberals propagating the fallacy that everything is “Bush’s fault,” think about this: January 3rd, 2007, was the day the Democrats took over the Senate and the Congress.

    At the time:
    The DOW Jones closed at 12,621.77
    The GDP for the previous quarter was 3.5%
    The unemployment rate was 4.6%
    George Bush’s economic policies SET A RECORD of 52 CONSECUTIVE MONTHS of JOB GROWTH

    Remember the day…
    January 3rd, 2007, was the day that Barney Frank took over the House Financial Services Committee and Chris Dodd took over the Senate Banking Committee. The economic meltdown that happened 15 months later was in what part of the economy?

    BANKING AND FINANCIAL SERVICES!
    Congress added to this CRISIS by (among MANY other things) dumping 5-6 TRILLION dollars of toxic loans on the economy from YOUR Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac FIASCOES!
    Bush asked Congress 17 TIMES to stop Fannie & Freddie – starting in 2001 – because it was financially risky for the US economy.

    And who took the THIRD highest pay-off from Fannie Mae AND Freddie Mac? OBAMA!

    And who fought against reform of Fannie and Freddie? OBAMA and the Democrat Congress.

    So when someone tries to blame Bush,
    REMEMBER JANUARY 3rd, 2007…. THE DAY THE DEMOCRATS TOOK OVER!

    Budgets do not come from the White House. They come from Congress, and the party that controlled Congress since January 2007 is the Democrat Party. Furthermore, the Democrats controlled the budget process for 2008 & 2009 as well as 2010 & 2011.

    In that first year, they had to contend with George Bush, which caused them to compromise on spending, when Bush somewhat belatedly got tough on spending increases.

    For 2009 though, Nancy Pelosi & Harry Reid bypassed George Bush entirely, passing continuing resolutions to keep government running until Barack Obama could take office. At that time, they passed a massive omnibus spending bill to complete the 2009 budgets.

    And where was Barack Obama during this time? He was a member of that very Congress that passed all of these massive spending bills, and he signed the omnibus bill as President to complete 2009.

    If the Democrats inherited any deficit, it was the 2007 deficit, the last of the Republican budgets. That deficit was the lowest in five years, and the fourth straight decline in deficit spending. After that, Democrats in Congress took control of spending, and that includes Barack Obama, who voted for the budgets.

    If Obama inherited anything, he inherited it from himself.
    In a nutshell, what Obama is saying is I inherited a deficit that I voted for and then I approved expanding that deficit four-fold since January 20, 2009.

    And Rutherford and Thor, now you tell me any part of this that is incorrect. And be specific this time. Not what you’ve been taught to mouth from the media.

  230. Can I see a black hole? Nope, but I see its effects, as my own Milky Way circles the drain.

    Maybe. Irrefutable? And certainly not provable as to the reason the galaxies operate the way they do. It’s a best guess scenario using a series of mathematical models and the fact the stars themselves are contributing to the overall gravitational field of the galaxy but can’t by themselves explain the spiral nature of galaxies – and even that is conjecture because there is no way to measure the certainty.

    Probably a black hole. But we’ve never witnessed a black hole with our eyes, and it could be entirely something new. Possibly a new force of which we have yet to discover.

    We can predict gravitational constants utilizing Newton’s Laws of Mass and give an approximation of gravity concerning distance, but we still have no idea why it is.

    How about dark matter? That’s theoretical and wholly inconsistent with what scientists have speculated for years. The universe isn’t just expanding – it’s expanding at a rate that defies the laws of nature. Or so they say.

    Thor’s example of quarks is a great one. That’s completely theoretical.

    So what is it? Don’t know. Neither do they. But you will accept that as science, won’t you? The search for answers using the null hypothesis? That’s the very basis of scientific testing.

    I don’t dispute your answer, but to simply point out that what you’ve listed as the milky way swirling the drain is exactly what I witness from God moving nations, influencing people, changing lives. It’s so obvious, it surely must be. Both require a degree of faith. But one carries an additional requirement.

    Faith.

    And that too is irrefutable by your definition as I have millions upon millions of witnesses attesting as much over thousands of years and hundreds of centuries, giving God the glory in doing so. The probability that all of these people attesting to the power of God in their own personal lives, then all lying would approach zero by any statistical scale.

  231. Sorry – didn’t finish my thought.

    But one carries an additional requirement…

    Faith in the unseen and something that cannot be measured. The infinite – the beginning and the end. The Alpha & the Omega.

  232. Among the many falsehoods pushed at last week’s Democratic Convention is that this is the party of the people, unafraid to hold Corporate America responsible for its many ills.

    Judging by the records of the last two Democratic administrations, just the opposite appears to be true. Certainly, President Obama and, to some extent, Bill Clinton like to talk a good game in terms of class warfare, but under both men, real corporate crime-fighting has been at best a side issue — despite the immense amounts of white-collar fraud their administrations faced. In fact, neither Obama nor Clinton can hold a candle to the corporate crime-fighting record of George W. Bush, that supposed lapdog for large corporate interests.

    Consider: As we near the four-year anniversary of the financial crisis, not a single Wall Street fat cat has been charged with violations of securities laws in connection with the 2008 collapse.

    Then we have the outlandish case of MF Global, the brokerage firm run into the ground nearly a year ago by Obama’s pal and campaign-cash bundler, Jon Corzine. It isn’t just that the former Goldman Sachs CEO and New Jersey governor took outsized trading risks that destroyed the firm; his firm appears to have misused and lost $1.6 billion in customer funds in the process.

    Under securities laws, those customer funds were supposed to be kept sacrosanct — yet not a single MF Global employee, much less Corzine, has been charged in the matter by the Obama Justice Department or the Securities and Exchange Commission.

    Like Glenn Reynolds say, “Talking populism, practicing corporatism.”

  233. @ 307 thorsaurus
    Even that aspect is deeper depending on who you ask.
    1.Obama was getting out of Iraq NO MATTER WHAT
    2.Iraq opened the negotiations with a reasonable and (for them) populist responsible position of Iraqi law governing.
    3.Obama used that to energize and legitimize his exit which in reality was a forgone conclusion anyway.(back to 1)
    Most of the PMC who are likely to fire upon an Iraqi are actually under the authority of State. State does not operate under SOFA.
    So again depending on who you ask…win for O,Iraq,contractors,???
    I don’t know.

  234. @ thor 310 re Alfie 249 (or whatever adjusted # now showing)
    Yeah I supplied the link and said what I said. I didn’t go deeper for a couple of reasons. The thing is though I obviously find Romer wrong and/or at a minimum partisan and over simplistic offering nothing of substance.
    Seriously 487 billion out of defense sounds good. The thing is though that is government math. It is talking about not spending fantasy dollars over a ten year period.
    Medicare savings? Wrong bumper sticker! Try Save Medicare! I don’t like its odds.
    nano tax? If you mean a Tobin Tax boo hiss upon you. I’ll do Glass/Steagall but we have to dump Dodd/Frank. Absolutely no pensions for pols,go ahead and lift the FICA cap if you want I think we’d be better off limiting benefits because I can’t allow the cap to rise,yield little but then have to pay.

  235. I think Rutherford has seen the writing on the wall, thus his sparse presence of late. There are really no good arguments to be made on the Left, thus nothing to say.

  236. Speaking of black holes and in time for the anniversary of 9/11,

    The foundation that runs the memorial estimates that once the roughly $700 million project is complete, the memorial and museum will together cost $60 million a year to operate.

    This is absurd to me. We spend this much on a memorial and budget that much to keep it open, and yet spent a mere 12 million to investigate it. Dupes, that’s what we are. A nation of dupes. Prideful dupes at that.

    http://news.yahoo.com/wtc-memorial-magnificent-steep-price-132938429.html

  237. It took a while to convince people the world wasn’t flat. Before that you could lose your life over claiming different, since all the PTB held that belief. It’s no different. It’s called investigation. After a little more of it, flat worlders were the obvious dupes. It’s the same with people’s belief in God.

    I’ve accepted that I just live among flat worlders. 😀

  238. Tex, I like your point about faith. Pf managed to illustrate the point I was getting at, in his own words.

    “As an EE, I have never seen, nor will I ever see, an electron. I cannot hold one in my hand or roll it across the table, but I can see its effects.”- Pf

    I don’t know why the link didn’t work. It was straight from the CBO. It shows a divergence in income growth between the upper 20% (growing at about 8% a year while the lower 80% grew at about 1% a year). Overall GDP growth was a little over 3%.

    As far as depreciating assets, I just found it ironic that your list was full of them. When you buy a dirt bike for four grand and its worth $500 in five years, do you have wealth or an expensive toy? Meanwhile, the dealer you bought the motorcycle from took some of your money to buy new inventory, used some to help pay for his son’s education and put some in equities for his retirement. Are those toys, or assets? Show me a house with a foreclosure notice pinned to the front door and I’ll show you a driveway with Hummer tracks, a rusty ATV and an empty boat trailer. 🙂

    As for the community organizer bringing the world to the brink of financial meltdown, all I can say is, Ryan was in Congress before Obama, and still is. The reason more people aren’t being prosecuted is that most of what they did was legal. That’s the point. Reinstate Glass-Steagal.

    Sorry this response is so scatter shot, but I’m out until tonight. When school starts for the kids, my time gets drastically compressed. And so much to talk about today. Polls, Romney on pre-existing conditions, August fund raising, possible QE3. And Quarks. 😉

  239. When you buy a dirt bike for four grand and its worth $500 in five years, do you have wealth or an expensive toy?

    An expensive toy that is worth $500.00 of wealth. 😉

    But you’re not adding that original $4,000.00 sale, a part of which was then used to provide another bike and another and another….that is the creation of wealth. Somebody had to make that bike. They profited in wages and salary from it’s creation. So did the people who provided the raw materials to construct the bike. As did the transportation company. A stockholder profited from its sale.

    I don’t argue that the gap is growing, and said as much in my original response to you. But is that the fault of the system, or the fault of the people making the choices? Other than those outrageous cases where some exec walks off with millions while running a country into the ground which most of us condemn, I say it’s mostly the latter.

    Free enterprise is not equal outcome.

    You do realize without us arguing about it, that the example you used is exactly the reason I believe so many find themselves assigned to poverty?

    It’s called personal responsibility, and without teaching it to future generations, it won’t matter who the President is.

  240. The reason more people aren’t being prosecuted is that most of what they did was legal. That’s the point. Reinstate Glass-Steagal.

    Maybe, what do you propose to do with Jon Corzine? More importantly, what do Obama and Holder plan to do with him? Apparently nothing, as long as Corzine can keep the campaign coffers stocked.

    That’s not legal. And it’s beyond putrid.

    It is hypocritical as hell for Obama to stand up there and preach to us about the evils of Wall Street, when he is chin deep in the excesses.

  241. Raji thanks for asking. My wife goes in for surgery tomorrow. It was clear after a CT scan and ultrasound that she has a cyst the size of a honeydew melon which has to come out.

    Everyone here (including the cat) is on pins and needles. At this point she could either be home tomorrow (outpatient) or have a six week recovery. They won’t know till they go in.

  242. “R”, none of my business. I assume ovary?

    If so, common. She’s going to be okay. Happened to an old girlfriend of mine, and it was scary how fast it developed.

    Be thinking about your family and for what it is worth, you’ll be in my thoughts.

  243. Man, tell your wife to hang in there, R. That sounds awful.

    They should fire everyone of those Chicago teachers. Unbelievable. Grow some balls and can them all.

  244. Has medicine gotten so degraded that we now remove melon sized cysts from a woman, and won’t even allow an overnight stay? 😯

    I knew we had drive by deliveries, but I have never heard such a thing as that, “R.”

  245. Tex I want her home soon as possible. If the procedure can be done laparoscopic (draining the cyst and then removing) then the outpatient thing should not be a problem.

    If the incision is bigger or pending blood test results are not good then I assume at least an overnight stay. I want her in there the least amount of time possible.

  246. That I do understand, Rutherford. I was just surprised that even draining a cyst that size would be considered outpatient.

    But the getting her home quickly and out of that staph infected jungle? You’re a smart man.

    I’ll be thinking about you – seriously. Don’t be nervous and stay calm. Your wife needs you to be that way and so does your daughter. Worrying won’t change a damn thing, and neither will fretting about the situation.

    I just wanted to assure you in case you didn’t know that this is procedure is not uncommon.

  247. PF: ‘Can I see a black hole? Nope, but I see its effects, as my own Milky Way circles the drain.’

    Tex: “Maybe. Irrefutable? And certainly not provable as to the reason the galaxies operate the way they do. It’s a best guess scenario using a series of mathematical models and the fact the stars themselves are contributing to the overall gravitational field of the galaxy but can’t by themselves explain the spiral nature of galaxies – and even that is conjecture because there is no way to measure the certainty.”

    Precisely. And here I was thinking that we disagreed.

    The existence of a black hole IS refutable (not “irrefutable.”) That is exactly why it can be investigated successfully.

    You keep trying to insert this, “Explain this! See, you can’t!” as some kind of proof that science is invalid. In point of fact, most things are incompletely understood; trying to understand them is science’s business. I repeat: INVESTIGATING THE UNKNOWN IS WHAT SCIENCE DOES.

    “Probably a black hole. But we’ve never witnessed a black hole with our eyes, and it could be entirely something new. Possibly a new force of which we have yet to discover.”

    Yep. The black hole is the best model we have right now; when a better model comes along, (if it does), it will be replaced.

  248. thor: “As far as depreciating assets, I just found it ironic that your list was full of them. When you buy a dirt bike for four grand and its worth $500 in five years, do you have wealth or an expensive toy? ”

    You can go into double-entry accounting and depreciation, but actually a very cool analogy was done by that Kyosaki (sp?) guy that did “Rich Dad, Poor Dad.” He divides assets into two kinds: those that make money and those that use money. Your dirt bike uses money; presumably you get enough fun out of it to make it worth the loss of asset. If I take the same money and plow it back into my wife’s Internet business, I will (likely) make money. I get off on that.

    I try to get my kids to look at every purchase: does it make money or use it, and if it uses it, is it worth it?

    BTW, I love my dirt bike. It’s worth it.

  249. An expensive toy that is worth $500.00 of wealth =assets

    An expensive toy that costs $4000 = liability

    Net worth = minus $3500

  250. Rutherford, hope all goes well. She must be in a lot of pain. Hopefully they can drain it and she doesn’t have the six weeks recovery.

  251. My wife went through this twice in the last 10 years, last was a year ago. This last time she was home the same day and was up and around 2 days later. Neither was the size of your wife but all in all it was a simple procedure.

  252. An expensive toy that is worth $500.00 of wealth =assets

    An expensive toy that costs $4000 = liability

    PERSONAL Net worth = minus $3500
    AGGREGATE MACROECONOMIC WORTH > $4,000

    Like I said, personal choice, personal responsibility.

  253. You keep trying to insert this, “Explain this! See, you can’t!” as some kind of proof that science is invalid.

    No, I said nothing of the sort. The question here isn’t measuring science. It’s your double standard in judgment and you duplicity in accusation.

    First, the latter. It is you that starts these with your puerile insults and it is you that never misses the Rebliblican, the Jesus Christ, the pejorative – then you commend Rabbit for not making it personal, when that is all you do here with respect to religion. You’re a rank bigot. You’re offensive and you mean to be offensive. So suck it up when it comes back in spades, only on this particular thread I have chosen not to do that – just refute your biblical ignorance, which is legendary. Time for you to hold yourself to the same standard you would like the rest of us to respect.

    All I said with respect to the believe in God is, I am simply using the same tools you are with respect to black holes, quarks or gravity.

    Like I said this morning, which is not refutable. I don’t dispute your answer, but to simply point out that what you’ve listed as the milky way swirling the drain is exactly what I witness from God moving nations, influencing people, changing lives. Got to be something. Yep. The black hole is the best model we have right now; when a better model comes along, (if it does), it will be replaced.

    Same with Jesus. And so far, nobody has provided a better model. Not even you, the scientist believe we bubbled up from the ooze. Feel free to believe that. But don’t expect me to believe the idiocy too. 😉

  254. @ 333 “It’s called personal responsibility, and without teaching it to future generations, it won’t matter who the President is.”

    That is the divide. Where one sees wealth another sees debt.

  255. That is the divide. Where one sees wealth another sees debt.

    And some of us can actually see both. If you can’t see the wealth, you have no understanding of free enterprise.

  256. Tigre, you bastard. You peaked my curiosity. I just went and listened to a 60 minute broadcast in 90 seconds. I heard a snort, a well, another snort, a well…

    It was the best way to listen to it….quickly.

  257. Tex opined: “you commend Rabbit for not making it personal, when that is all you do here with respect to religion”

    Religion is an idea; it is not personal. Personal means “people” – get it? Person – al? People – personal. Religion = idea = not personal.

    I’ll help you learn the difference; here we go, the next sentence:

    “You’re a rank bigot.”

    That’s personal. See the difference? “Religion is silly” – not personal.

    Then the next: “You’re offensive and you mean to be offensive.” That’s personal. Getting it so far?

    And the next: “So suck it up when it comes back in spades, only on this particular thread I have chosen not to do that – just refute your biblical ignorance, which is legendary.” That’s personal. “The idea of talking snakes is silly.” being critical of an idea = not personal.

    How’s that? Clear yet?

    This fun! Let’s talk about black holes some more!

  258. When one insults America, they insult Americans. When one insults Jesus, they insult Christians. And they mean to and you know they are doing so as it angry, planned, and the very essence of personal, since that which you mock is called personal in relationship.

    If I insult your wife or your kids but leave you well enough alone, is it personal?

    You’re pettifogging the issue. It’s your style when challenged.

    ———-

    To answer your specious examples as I must and it all personal:

    Do you teach your kids and grandkids this is all there is? Do you talk to them about the fairies to provide ammunition against the Dominionist’s children? Is little Johnny also militant in the high school, following father’s example? Or are you like Madonna – she sells it, but her kids aren’t going to see it?

    Fairies right? Isn’t that what you are always referring to God as? Fairies in the garden?

    But these fairies don’t turn you red in the face, or send you off an some goose chase to Alaska to seek out like minded loons to fight the Evil Dominionists – sounds like a bad romance novel. Bet those bloggers have seen plenty of insect drones in their backyard.

    Militant atheists are generally the most deluded, angriest people I’ve ever met. Why deluded? How detached does one have to be to spend an inordinate amount of time cursing it, all the while telling us it doesn’t exist? That used to be called certifiable. In your world, it’s treated as gospel – no pun intended.

    But you? I can almost see the spittle flying, as you work to convince yourself we’re all crazy, but you. Are you convinced that convinces us you’re a self-fulfilled man like you would want us to believe? You’re consumed with the fairies. I know enough.

    In most circles of society, contrary to what you might think, you’re nothing more than annoyance. I would shake the dust as I find nothing edifying about you or Rutherford, but I like the blog and the give and take of political debate.

    When you finally retire for good, you’ll soon be forgotten.

    But nothing personal.

  259. Yes, piqued. 😳 And I knew better too as I’ve used it here before. But I’ve come to accept that there will be at least two or three typos in every post anymore.

    I’d like to blame that on age.

  260. Critique is different from insult. Mostly it is in the delivery and intent. It can be interpreted incorrectly, and often is. Critique should be welcoming. If one is confident, it generally is.

    The Word says if we are cursed or insulted because of Jesus, we are blessed. I don’t know how it works if we are cursed or insulted for being an idiot that happens to be Christian. There’s a nuance.

    I’m sorry, but plenty of people that claim to be Christian are a bit questionable in terms of sanity and common sense. I expect much more from them, but really haven’t found the usual examples very far ahead in the faith. Of course, we get what the media gives us. Often we get the voodoo revenge crowd. Maybe the wise ones don’t go forward with opinion, rather preferring to operate more effectively from a prayer closet. I sure do find myself apologizing much for others.

    There is a lot of herd mentality among us, not synonymous with the kind of unity the Word speaks of. Just because you’re on the path of salvation doesn’t mean you got it all figured. Not that it needs earning. You couldn’t pay the price. But we must be constantly seeking even though we don’t get full knowledge this side of a heartbeat. Learning is always part of the journey. Each day can take you closer, your choice. Guidance is often that warm glowing light at the end of the tunnel.

  261. Thank to everyone for the best wishes for my wife and particularly Noah for some first hand experience. Noah, I hope my wife duplicates your wife’s most recent experience.

    I actually will NOT be out of pocket tomorrow … the best way to spend my time in the waiting room during surgery will be to read the comments of you knuckleheads and reply (in)appropriately.

    As always, I appreciate the prayers from the religious among you and the positive vibes from the rest.

  262. Hope all goes well for your wife, R. I hope your little girl is taking it well. Your family will be in my thoughts and prayers. I know you think it meaningless, but just consider it a metaphysical “get well” card. 🙂

  263. Tex, the Whittle video was interesting. I think the graph is flawed in that it doesn’t reflect quality, just quantity. For instance, two households have refrigeration. But one is from a fridge the size of a small apartment building, complete with remote control slushy maker and the other is a travel cooler plugged in to the cigarette lighter of a broken down minivan. His graph makes no distinction between these two drastically different economic situations. Skews the entire argument.

    I wonder if tattoos are on that list. Might create an interesting anomaly. 😉

  264. @ Alfie, 321. I thought Tobin’s idea was in regards to international monetary trading. What I was promoting was a mini tax on equity trades to temper the influence of high frequency trading, not create a revenue stream (although it should raise enough to pay for its own compliance enforcement mechanisms). The Knight fiasco last spring hardly made news, but you can bet it raised a few eyebrows at the S.E.C.

  265. “Well in my case obviously it’s Viagra.”

    To masturbate? Wow, you must really love the sound of your own voice. Glad the show doesn’t exceed 4 hours. 😆

    You should do more Gorilla/opposing viewpoint shows. That trite/shallow/mental masturbation/MSNBC awkward laugh shit with Bubbles is torture. It sure isn’t helping your cause either.

  266. “Do you teach your kids and grandkids this is all there is?”

    I teach them to think for themselves, so – absent the Sunday morning and Wednesday night proselytizing and propaganda, I expect they will do the Right Thing.

    “Do you talk to them about the fairies to provide ammunition against the Dominionist’s children?”

    Fairies are imaginary and fun. Gods are the same, so we talk about all of them in the same way.

    “Is little Johnny also militant in the high school, following father’s example?”

    I don’t know a Johnny. I have four johns in my house, is that what you mean?

    “Or are you like Madonna – she sells it, but her kids aren’t going to see it?”

    I think The Madonna (that little Jewish minx!) gave it away; I’m surprised that – in that day and time – Joseph didn’t have her stoned to death. Are we talking about the same person?

    “Fairies right? Isn’t that what you are always referring to God as? Fairies in the garden?”

    No, I didn’t call the Hairy Thunderer a fairy. I’m sure he’s VERY macho, with all that smiting and all…I said “my granddaughter and I believe in fairies.” I think I said “faeries,” though…

    “But these fairies don’t turn you red in the face, or send you off an some goose chase to Alaska to seek out like minded loons to fight the Evil Dominionists”

    Actually, I’m rather jolly. Nothing turns me red in the face these days. My Internet businesses are doing quite well; I spend lots of time with my granddaughter, and having left the Evil Empire behind, it would be hard to improve on life. AND – I DO get a lot of amusement – and you are helping! Thanks! (You should really find something other than Rutherford’s blog to do with yourself, Tex; idleness leads to depression, anger and anxiety.)

    “Bet those bloggers have seen plenty of insect drones in their backyard.”

    Kind of scratching around the bottom the barrel for random stuff now, aren’t we? C’mon, I’m having a good time – get back on track…

    “Militant atheists are generally the most deluded, angriest people I’ve ever met. Why deluded? How detached does one have to be to spend an inordinate amount of time cursing it, all the while telling us it doesn’t exist? That used to be called certifiable. In your world, it’s treated as gospel – no pun intended.”

    (Now WHO’S angry? LOL) Don’t overthink it, Tex. Nobody’s cursing anything and nobody’s angry except for you. If I took it seriously, I’d be doing the dervish thing just like you are. I’m not cursing religion – I am laughing at it.

    “But you? I can almost see the spittle flying, as you work to convince yourself we’re all crazy, but you.”

    Convince? Not too hard, actually. Now tell me about that talking snake again?

    “In most circles of society, contrary to what you might think, you’re nothing more than annoyance.”

    I really hope so. As they say, my goal is to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable – and credulous. It’s working…

    “I would shake the dust as I find nothing edifying about you or Rutherford, but I like the blog and the give and take of political debate.”

    Well, if you like debate, learn how to do it without getting so personal, and we’ll all have a lot more fun. It isn’t effective, and makes you an easy target.

    I recommend The Learning Company’s “Argumentation” series. Easy, quick, and makes you as impregnable as I.

    “When you finally retire for good, you’ll soon be forgotten.”

    As will we all, my friend, as will we all.

  267. Tex –
    Thanks for the Bill Whittle video – just got time to watch it. Very interesting, actually. My mother always told me that if you wanted to make someone hate you, DO something for them. Never made sense at the time. Later I read Atlas Shrugged, and was again surprised at how much disdain the parasites had for the producers, all the while holding their hands out for more. I figured, hell – it’s just fiction.

    I don’t think I was ever as bad off as Whittle, but things were tight a time or two when I was in college, and growing up in the head-of-the-holler we didn’t have much by today’s standards. But we had more than people around us, even though my father was out of work for eight years. We slaughtered our own hog every year, milked our own cow (bucket-kicking huzzy!), grew a huge garden – and did JUST FINE. None of us had much, but even back then I remember the sullen demeanor of people “on relief.” Fortunately we never got that far down.

    I’ll send that vid to all my conservative friends. The Libs won’t understand it.

    R – good luck to your wife; I am convinced that, once they have their kids, women ought to have all their breast tissue removed and implants placed, ditto for their girl-parts below. A little hormone replacement therapy and the sandbox is open for play! Just my .05.

    I’m off to a Search Engine Optimization class for a few days, so I’ll be in and out (and in a hurry). Forgive any terse commentary. Carry on in a strong fashion.

  268. I started to watch the Whittle video and soon realized it has been posted here by Tex before. I remember dissecting it a bit to show his premise’s distortions.

    And speaking of modern day fairy tales…

    In order to understand the improbability of the government’s explanation of 9/11, it is not necessary to know anything about what force or forces brought down the three World Trade Center buildings, what hit the Pentagon or caused the explosion, the flying skills or lack thereof of the alleged hijackers, whether the airliner crashed in Pennsylvania or was shot down, whether cell phone calls made at the altitudes could be received, or any other debated aspect of the controversy.

    You only have to know two things.

    One is that according to the official story, a handful of Arabs, mainly Saudi Arabians, operating independently of any government and competent intelligence service, men without James Bond and V for Vendetta capabilities, outwitted not only the CIA, FBI, and National Security Agency, but all 16 US intelligence agencies, along with all security agencies of America’s NATO allies and Israel’s Mossad. Not only did the entire intelligence forces of the Western world fail, but on the morning of the attack the entire apparatus of the National Security State simultaneously failed. Airport security failed four times in one hour. NORAD failed. Air Traffic Control failed. The US Air Force failed. The National Security Council failed. Dick Cheney failed. Absolutely nothing worked. The world’s only superpower was helpless at the humiliating mercy of a few undistinguished Arabs.

    It is hard to image a more far-fetched story–except for the second thing you need to know: The humiliating failure of US National Security did not result in immediate demands from the President of the United States, from Congress, from the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and from the media for an investigation of how such improbable total failure could have occurred. No one was held accountable for the greatest failure of national security in world history. Instead, the White House dragged its feet for a year resisting any investigation until the persistent demands from 9/11 families for accountability forced President George W. Bush to appoint a political commission, devoid of any experts, to hold a pretend investigation.

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2012/09/11/the-11th-anniversary-911-paul-craig-roberts/

  269. Pfesser, this may be presumptuous on my part but…

    …This role you’ve assigned yourself acting as as some ambassador of intellectual honesty and awareness? First your father was out of work for six years, then eight, and the story grows ever more saddening and trying as the months go on…like the cadence of a venal politician’s story.

    No matter, this will be my last comment concerning the subject unless you drop some bomb as you snooze me with your retort glibness. Perhaps while learning to optimize your searches, you could learn to optimize your HTML to make your replies more readable.
    ————

    You know why I know this movement of atheism in trouble? The militancy.

    Because contrary to your ‘jolly’ demeanor, atheists like yourself are becoming increasingly intolerant. In the past, atheists who disdained religion like you still treated their less enlightened neighbors like me as good-hearted, if misguided. But certainly not now, protesting crosses at 9/11 memorials today and running to the courts.

    See, I’ve never been angry with unicorns. And it’s unlikely I’ll ever be angry with unicorns. I’m sure they will never raise my ire. But most importantly, until now, they’ve never entered my conversation. I don’t go seeking to mock unicorns. But the one social group that takes exception to this rule is atheists like yourself.

    Both of you apparently have some form of the great admiration of Thomas Jefferson?

    Whatever we throw up as proof of how Jefferson believed concerning this or that, the one thing that Jefferson believed for sure, even signed his name to was:

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights.

    That would be a step in the right direction for you both – the same admittance Thomas Jefferson recognized. It would certainly simplify the argument if you could stay consistent in message.

    That is, unless Jefferson was crazy too.

  270. I remember dissecting it a bit to show his premise’s distortions.

    And I remember your dissection, like all other of you dissections, had a truly profound influence here too….

    …as we all skipped on by.

    Only you Poolman would be so grotesque to distort the memory of 3,000 dead lives on the anniversary of their death with some crazy tale of intrigue.

    Do they even do that at Fat Grannies? Or are you truly the dregs of the bottom of the barrel as I think you are?

  271. Hi, I am in a lot of pain and thse clunky old lap top an e friend sent us frsom colorado has eaten two of my posts. Our desk top seems to be working again. I have not visited since our computerwent black Elizabeth Warren is antithetical to our founders intentions. This country is based on mutual distrust, individual initiative, and reliance on government when it is beyond the abilities of private citizens to cope. People giving us computers or offering refuge in the flood is what founding fathers and mothers intended.

  272. The take away from 379 is to not pretend to be something you’re not, which is exactly what most politicians and particularly Rmoney does do. To these folks it’s more important to get elected than to seek what is best for the nation as a whole. That’s why they try very hard to fit in. What should be natural comes off as contrived because it most certainly is.

    I’m certain those days were hard for them in comparison to what they are/were used to. Similar to Tex’s Whittle video, the perspective is completely distorted. We aren’t all on the same playing field.

    If I come here from Uganda or Somalia and live in a slum, I have improved my economic situation. If I come from the slum and move uptown, I’ve improved my economic situation. If I move to the suburbs and commute, I’ve improved my economic situation. If I own homes in several places that I can travel between, I’ve improved my economic situation.

    If I go backward, I suffer because of what I have grown accustomed. It is only a sacrifice of my accepted normal. Throughout the land we see this becoming the norm. A trend that some cannot face, seeing it as failure, many taking their own lives.

    Less talk and more action still seems wise. We certainly have an abundance of the talk part.

  273. And to those who still don’t get my problem with Michelle Obama (and with Rutherford’s duplicity):

    “Our student loan payments cost us more than their monthly mortgage payment. We were so young, so in love, and so in debt.” ~ Michelle Obama

    Well then Michelle, surely then you will explain to us how you ate and where you lived – because you certainly have never looked like you missed a meal.

    In Rutherford’s world, stereotyping is not just permissible, but welcomed as long it is never reciprocal.

  274. Actually many of the very relatives of said victims are part of the “grotesque” truth seekers.

    You know what the really grotesque part is? Virtually all them are multi millionaires too for their troubles and still pandering for further compensation.

    But the people in the Murrah Federal Building that day in OKC who lost their lives?

    Still middle class to poor…

    A question of character, something you unfamiliar.

  275. You know what the really grotesque part is? Virtually all them are multi millionaires too for their troubles and still pandering for further compensation.

    Cites? It’s time you backed up some of your claims with fact.

  276. You do realize if the victims’ relatives did not insist on an investigation and filed subsequent petitions, that no form of investigation would have even been done?

  277. “So I said what I said – there is no such thing as a good Christian. You either believe on the Son of God and accept Christ as your Lord and Savior or you don’t. I stand by that. ”

    From way back in the thread. Muffy, isn’t that exactly what I said you thought? Instead of saying “yes R you understand where I’m coming from” I got a lecture about clay pots.

    Color me puzzled.

  278. R, your criticism of Ann Romney are petty and childish. It all started with some seething anger you claimed to detect. Or was it “you people?” Now you’re just trying to validate your class envy. The Romneys were not speaking of a rise from poverty. They were speaking to struggle and success, admittedly voluntary.

    The Obamas claims of poverty and adversity? How odd. 🙄 Obama, a private school/ivy league educated lawyer too stupid to buy shoes that fit his feet and a car with rust through it. Yeah, a regular college graduate without anything close to the burdens of those that were not given preferential admissions and scholarship treatment. Talk about false narratives. And the left swoons. What a load.

  279. I think Michele Obama was lying or exagerating about her and Barack’s abject poverty. Michele certainly doesn’t look like she has missed many meals lately. Maybe she is stealing from her husband’s plate. The story doesn’t hold water, considering the couple’s family backgrounds. The difference between the Oklahoma city bombings and the 9/11 attacks were largely timing and location.

  280. “First your father was out of work for six years, then eight, and the story grows ever more saddening and trying as the months go on”

    No, Tex – if I am incorrect or contradict myself, it’s an honest mistake – no “fib clocks” in MY kitchen. I was about three (maybe four?) when my father lost his job; actually I do remember the very day, oddly enough. Since he brought groceries home on his way from the mines, I asked how he would get groceries, thinking that his workplace was where he got them. He thought I was talking about money (which I had no concept of) and reassured me there would be enough money for food.

    How long was he out of work? I don’t know exactly – about 6, 7, 8 years or so. It was over fifty years ago, so there’s nobody alive today that I could ask. Machs nix, anyway…that’s not the point, is it? (You should read that scripture about struggling with the gnat and swallowing the camel – some good ideas in that book, if you can parse them out of the tales of rape, murder and magic.)

    Saddening, trying times? Not at all. (Where do you get this stuff? – tock… that’s two.) We had plenty, because the whole family worked. I remember those as some of my happiest days. Not having a big-screen TV does not mean you are deprived. Sheesh…

  281. Cites? It’s time you backed up some of your claims with fact.

    Most surely will.

    As soon as you open that pocketbook and bet me.

    Let’s start at $100.00 as bet and work our way up, fact checking each time. Time you suffered some consequences for your traitorous, childish behavior for the only thing you have in little quantity but cherish.

    Pay through Rutherford’s PenPal, and the loser gives him $50.00. Payment for stealing his bandwidth.

    How about it coward? Got enough balls to place your money where you cowardly mouth is, Tool™?

  282. If you ever see Michelle Obama in person, you will be shocked, she is quite slender. Perhaps a size 8 and with her at height at close to 6 foot, that is slim.

  283. Poolman has raised the spectre of plots behind 9/11. Something actually supported by facts happened when Soviet troops murdered over 20.000 Poles in Katyln Forrest. FDR knew about it and repressed the information to maintain relations with Stalin during WW11.Curiously, our government hid the facts even after the war.

  284. R, how’s your wife doing?

    James, nice to see you back. I was beginning to wonder.

    @379 R. I don’t think the wealth of candidates should be an automatic penalty against their election anymore than it should be an automatic credential. I don’t care if Romney is rich or poor, I just want to know how he plans to address domestic and foreign policy. So far, he appears to be nothing more than Bush 2.0 and time is running short for him to sway me from that view. (Early voting starts in 16 days.)

  285. My better half is out of surgery. They pulled a cantaloupe out of her but fortunately it was mostly fluid so after draining laparoscopy did the trick. I’m bringing her home in a few hours.

    Tex and PF I saw the pictures and I’m friggin amazed at what they can do with a laparoscope. When it works, you gotta love medical science!

  286. I’ll accept that muffy. Michele may not be fat, the she is a big woman. I think her hips make her look heavier. She is attractive. Again, her appearance has little bearing on her past.

  287. BTW I owe you guys and gals a thank you. Reading you sniping at each other brought a smile to my lips during the past couple of nerve wracking hours. Hell I think I even laughed out loud once. Folks in the waiting room must think I’m crazy.

  288. Good news, Rutherford. Take her home and stay away from this zoo.

    I just never dreamed that would be out patient surgery. But then I never dreamed knee surgery for a partially torn ACL could be out patient until I witnessed it.

    When you’re unemployed, retired, or whatever I am, you become a very popular guy for errands and rides. Maybe I’ll create a blogging/taxi service.

  289. Thanks thor. We have been so busy we have not had time to do much of anything for ourselves. That’s why we apprecate our e pal’s sending us a lap top computer.

    Corn harvest ended on our farm last week-the earliest ever.

  290. So far, he appears to be nothing more than Bush 2.0

    I assume that is really bad? If so, you should vote for Romney as the lesser of two evils. Bush 2 is infinitely better than Obama 2.

    Obama after badmouthing Bush, then changed heart and doubled down on Bush policy with respect to debt, enemy combatants, and war death in Afghanistan. Did I mention unemployment, as unemployment averaged 5.6% during his second term. Sounds pretty good right now.

    Or have we revoked those rules on account Obama has a ‘D’?

  291. As soon as you open that pocketbook and bet me.

    Don’t have any, eh? That’s the common path you take when challenged. You act as if it for my benefit. Ignorance it is then, but don’t say I never offered a life line.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I read a comment on one of the videos I watched where the guy said to write-in satan for the lesser of the evils. I thought that was funny.

  292. Thor said “Lift the FICA cap.”

    Oh, I see. $110,100.00 is now “rich.” Both employee and employer too.

    Bernie the socialist, right? So what does Bernie propose when everyone chooses to become part of the loophole?

    To put this into perspective, the sub-population of public employees that legally evades FICA taxes is equivalent in size to the entire adult American workforce residing in Michigan, the 8th most populous state in the U.S.

    http://www.governing.com/columns/public-money/FICA-free-lunch-crowd.html

    Run with it. 🙂 I’ll be more than happy to remind the rest of us that pay FICA about these public employees…

  293. The Germans are also worried about our debt and its effect on Europe.

    Thor, I tend to agree with you, but as others noted, Bush is better than Obama. Would you re hire Obama if he was a college or high school foot ball coach?

  294. Don’t have any, eh? That’s the common path you take when challenged. You act as if it for my benefit. Ignorance it is then, but don’t say I never offered a life line.

    That’s right. I don’t have any. Now win yourself a hundred bucks to pay for your internet service and bet me, Cowardly Tool™.

  295. Right her, right now, Mr. Poolman. Step on up and win yourself some cash. It’s a chance for you to really shove it up my ass and drown me.

    We’ll settle this bet quickly when you got me stumped…we can do it today before I have to take off.

    And Rutherford needs the copay cash. He’ll love you for it too.

  296. Alfie,

    Holy crap! You’ve open to sway all this time?!?!?!

    Shame on you. I know you know better. This is part of the Obama voting bloc – the same one that finds it racist that 60% of white men vote against Obama, but not racist when 97% of black men vote for Obama.

    You know, the liberal mind.

  297. FDR knew about it and repressed the information to maintain relations with Stalin during WW11.Curiously, our government hid the facts even after the war.

    James, I read about the Katyn Forest massacre years ago. I was sickened how the information was intentionally suppressed for political purpose. But then I have also read of FDR having advance knowledge of Pearl Harbor and even provoking that event to sway the public into entering the war. I believe Stinnett was the source of that leak and he was ostracized for it.

    Unfortunately, it often takes decades to get to the truth of many of our government’s atrocities. Looking back you can often see the path much more clearly.

  298. Sorry Tex, the shill rag popular mechanics or the in the tank pj media ain’t gonna cut it. You still believe Whittle Bill a credible source. You either can or you can’t back up your statements. I don’t need to put my hard-earned money on the line to watch you dance.

  299. Revisionist history is a shame,a sham and a number of other negatives.
    The “breaking news” of Katyn is such a freaking yawn it is sickening. Americans knew then and therefore knew after WWII. A little spin here a little “suppression” there and life moving on after the war and what? It isn’t that one version won out over another,its that the vision people had was on focus elsewhere.
    In the immediate years after the incident you can bang FDR all day long. It was a political choice,and not a good one especially given how Stalin responded to the Wests desire for Soviet participation in the Pacific theater. That being the primary driver for flakking the truth.
    But here we are 2012. Papers are released and stories written and the web set afire. I saw reports years ago that spoke of it.Not top secret shit either. If you Google the KF you will likely see a 2007 CIA report which speaks to the cover up as well.
    We fake outrage over this secondary to our own America centric world view. What did Polish,Finnish and German school kids learn over the past 69 years???
    I find it revolting that individuals can feign outrage over their own ignorance,and yeah that line is directly fired at the poolmans of the world. The information isn’t new…its just new to YOU and therefore you get all Don Quixote and rail against it. How fucking arrogant.

    ps poolman you rotten piece of shit….is it an annual or semi annual thing that you bring up the Pearl harbor lies? Don’t worry pools unfortunately people with real knowledge and experience will be dead and unable to fight against the wiki douches. That will be a sad day for America but then again since we’ll be fiscally bankrupt we might as well be intellectually barren too.

  300. of note the CIA documents footnotes shows dates and info back to the 40’s-50’s that shows the incident was in the public view,just not really cared about I guess. find footnote 10 for a great example

  301. Yeah Alfie, I’m the one making all this shit up. 🙄 “How dare I question authority or the popular narrative, whether cleverly contrived or not? “Just be a good soldier and follow orders. “You’re not smart enough to figure things out. “The world is too complex for simple answers. “Blah, blah, blah.

    We’re already fiscally bankrupt and intellectually barren. It is a sad day for America. Presently.

  302. Regarding the Chicago strike the last I heard it’s not about the money. They’re pissed because a good 25% of their performance eval will come from test scores.

    Be that as it may I’m with the Rabbit. I’m pro-union but I think there are some professions who should never strike:

    Teachers
    Doctors and nurses
    Cops
    Firefighters
    Air traffic controllers (the one thing Ronnie did that I fully applaud).

  303. You either can or you can’t back up your statements.

    How about I promise to use none of those sources you’ve listed and we’ll make the bet $200.00 with Rutherford keeping a hundred and I”ll even let Rutherford determine the validity? You think he is going to favor me in that debate? Shiite…

    What do you say Tool™? Now we’re up to $100.00 you get to keep – that will help pay down the electric bill in arrears.

    Sounds like sweet money for your lady. Can you eject your shriveled nuts out into the light and be a man?

  304. Rutherford,

    I’ve got to give you Dims credit. You once again apparently had a better handle on the mindset of the country than I did. I was aghast in 2008 but attributed that to change and a weak candidate; I’m vexed now.

    How you guys can continue to polish a turd and make it palatable to the American populace is truly staggering in its implication. The entire story at the Dim Convention was contrived, even Clinton’s mind numbing horseshit in rewriting history, and apparently a majority of Americans bought that baloney hook, line and sinker.

    What has happened I never thought could happen – 50 years of indoctrination and entitlement has turned Kennedy’s great acceptance speech line on its ear. I kick myself for not fully recognizing the consequences, but in fairness, I got into the game a little late by around 1990. The pieces were already in place for the takeover of dumbing deviancy downward.

    At least give me credit for failing on the side of thinking Americans smarter than that.

  305. Thor said “I know you think it meaningless, but just consider it a metaphysical “get well” card.”

    I do believe in the power of positive thinking so that is how I categorize your much appreciated prayers.

  306. You want positive thinking Rutherford? Consider Jeff Gordon. He has had bad luck the past few seasons, and this year is no different. He was marginally outside of the Sprint Cup chase at the Charlette NASCAR race on Saturday night. He had to have a good race to make the cut, and his leading the first two laps were a good sign.

    Then, it all fell apart, and his car was little more than junk. Gordon was depressed and discouraged when reporters interviewed him during a rain delay. They worked very hard and his crew fixed the car. Gordon moved from last place three laps down to finishing second. Now that if positive thinking.

    We are all pulling for you.

  307. Katlyn Forrest was not new. Gorbachav appolgized about 1990.In the context of the time, FDR may have decided correctly to pretend we didn’t know. The allies were fighting for their existence, and we needed the Soviets.

    Churchill let Coventry be bombed because the British didn’t want the Germans to know they had broken their code. Morality gets a little fuzzy in dangerous times.

    I think our knowledge during and after the investigations was considered too embarrassing after the fact, and troops who had witnessed the aftermath because they were prisoners of war were told to keep quiet.

    Katlyn Forrest was a conspiracy of silence based on fact. 9/11 is similar to the man on the grassy knoll.

  308. Rutherford, will your wife be incapacitated for any length of time, or is it a wait and see approach?

    I asked because I didn’t know if you had any family available to help with the care.

  309. Why am I bothered that Obama has campaigned more than the last 5 Presidents combined? Well here is one of many reasons.

    ” President Obama is touting his foreign policy experience on the campaign trail, but startling new statistics suggest that national security has not necessarily been the personal priority the president makes it out to be. It turns out that more than half the time, the commander in chief does not attend his daily intelligence meeting.

    The Government Accountability Institute examined President Obama’s schedule from the day he took office until mid-June 2012, to see how often he attended his Presidential Daily Brief (PDB) — the meeting at which he is briefed on the most critical intelligence threats to the country. During his first 1,225 days in office, Obama attended his PDB just 536 times — or 43.8 percent of the time. During 2011 and the first half of 2012, his attendance became even less frequent — falling to just over 38 percent. By contrast, Obama’s predecessor, George W. Bush almost never missed his daily intelligence meeting.”

    The man needs to do his dam job and stop chasing after the money!

  310. Rutherford, since you were the one that assured me a slow recovery was underway, I provide evidence A that you’re wrong and this time, from a centrist liberal using the most favorable Obama data.

    Hopefully in a few days, you can get back to answering a few of my questions about something more important than dreamy speeches and misguided use of scripture.

    You used to do that – make an attempt to answer my questions to the best of your abilities. Now I provide challenge to your assertions, and am provided of why you don’t like Ann Romney in return. 😉

    http://www.aei-ideas.org/2012/09/does-this-look-like-an-economy-thats-moving-forward-9-reasons-why-it-really-doesnt/

  311. Rutherford, those fools in Chicago don’t have much foresight. I totally get their misgivings about the evaluation by testing. The thing is, they should go ahead and call their bluff. We did. The truth is, nobody can figure out how to implement it in a way that makes any sense. In fact it’s nearly impossible. So, the highest paid teachers in the universe have decided to vilify themselves over some shit that wil never materialize. Fools. Overpaid fools.

  312. Rutherford–I am so happy about your wife. I never go on the internet at work but did for the sole purpose of seeing if there was news. Best wishes for her speedy and complete recovery. E.

  313. Vibes to your ol’ lady, R. My secretary had a similar malady and it all went just fine. No lasting concerns. I hope you encounter the same.

    Any chance they could give you a two-for-one deal and remove that melon-sized obstruction in your rectum? 😆

  314. No shit Bic. I am just in awe at the pitiful and predictable state of affairs. At least Iran is well ahead of schedule on producing nukes. The solution is of course to go at Israel.

  315. I think the US Embassy in Cairo needs to be placed in contention for Crock O’ the Day:

    The Embassy of the United States in Cairo condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims – as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions. Today, the 11th anniversary of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on the United States, Americans are honoring our patriots and those who serve our nation as the fitting response to the enemies of democracy. Respect for religious beliefs is a cornerstone of American democracy. We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others

  316. addendum to 445…I have not seen a release by the Embassy or State speaking to the Arab Springers climbing over the walls of the Embassy and bitching about some movie somewhere that insults Moe.

  317. I confess it is a little over my head but is anybody following the latest on AIG?
    Seems like the govt. may make out a bit but AIG will be put on a path that may hurt it down the road. Do we save the freaking thing then too?

  318. See Tool™, this is how I see it.

    Since not only do I find you a vile Jew hating prick, I also find you a vile American hating pussy and traitor of the lowest sort – and I think that’s pretty much a consensus of opinion here minus the Libs…

    What I propose we ought to do as group as I nominate Gorilla to hold one arm and Rabbit the other and I hope they tear both your labrums while doing so, and I will slam your head up against the wall with all my might with a choice.

    You can grab your wife and your worm collection and move to Yemen, Afghanistan or Somalia – you chose with the guarantee to never return. Or I will saw your head off on Pay Per View TV like your buddies did Daniel Pearl and donate the proceeds to the Park 51 mosque in your honor.

    And damn if I wouldn’t do it given the chance, you disgusting piece of crap.

  319. “But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good,TRAITORS, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away.”

    Nothing in anger about it. It’s called justice, Judas. And a wretched fool like you deserves it in spades. 😈 That I could be its messenger.

  320. Final update: the patient is home sleeping peacefully in her own bed. Everyone in the Lawson household is relieved. The miracle of medical science. My experience six years ago had soured me somewhat on the medical profession but I must say I respect them today.

  321. Nothing worse then a slanderer. Green insect gook would blob out of the poolman if we ripped him in half. Dude is an earwig.

  322. The practice of medicine can be barbaric, Mr. “R” as my father has recently experienced. But without it, he would have been dead.

    My complaint is with the system itself – not the people (usually).

    Best wishes to your wife. For your sake as much as hers, I’m glad to hear she is doing well. Hope her recovery is quick and she is back quickly to work, before you get the chance to stress her. 😉

  323. Romney is not a Bush redux. I think folks really need to let that tired thing go. Even if one finds similarities in the platform the fundamentals are different secondary to various nuances.
    If you want a less cryptic and fuller explanation,let me know.

  324. In a White House statement, Obama said he had ordered “all necessary resources to support the security of our personnel in Libya, and to increase security at our diplomatic posts around the globe.”

    Meanwhile back to Israel and Iran
    American officials are wary of carrying out an attack that could send oil prices spiking, or set off a Mideast war, just weeks before a presidential election.

  325. Tex, I finally got around to looking at your seven most over-rated movies from PJMedia. The fake posters were a hoot. But I have to take exception to “Inception” and “Sixth Sense” being on the list. Inception was an ambitious puzzle of a movie which I still haven’t completely unraveled. And I call BS on the author claiming he had Sixth Sense figured out in the first 15 minutes. If he did, he was in a minority of maybe 5. The ending was a major surprise to almost everyone.

    But putting that aside …. the fake movie posters were great.

    As much as I love “The Manchurian Candidate”, I’d probably put that on the list. The dialog that they give Sinatra to yell at “Raymond” in the final brain-snapping verbal assault is so over the top it’s ridiculous.

  326. My gift to Noah for his kind advice during my wife’s surgery …. I’m sure this is how you would characterize the average Obama supporter:

    The world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it. -Albert Einstein, physicist, Nobel laureate (1879-1955)

  327. “What I was promoting was a mini tax on equity trades to temper the influence of high frequency trading,”

    This would not go over well with day traders who make their living off of very high frequency trading.

  328. Your wife belongs at home, Rutherford. Best wishes to you both.

    Our daughter and I watched “Sixth Sense” three times. I had my suspicions, but it took me awhile to figure it out. The surprise made Sixth Sense even better.

    Re Rag’s comment: Obama’s snub is stupid on two levels. First, he risks losing more Jewish votes. Secondly, Israel feels increasingly isolated and fearful. They willl attack Iran if they feel they have no choice, and at a minimum the war will send energy prices high enough to send us into another recession.Obama should be talking instead of campaigning.

  329. “The Middle East is obviously an issue that has plagued the region for centuries.” — Barack Obama, Tampa, Fla., Jan. 28, 2010, idiot-in-chief, Nobel laureate (1961- ).

    “We invented the Internet”. – Albert Gore, blow hard, Nobel laureate (1948 – ).

    “Death to America.” – Yasser Arafat, Poolman Idol, Nobel laureate (1929-2004).

  330. Rutherford,

    I agree with you about Sixth Sense – I thought it was a spectacular movie – Inception, not so much. And I liked Signs too – both great movies. But my wife and kids liked Inception.

    I wasn’t agreeing with the list. Heck, I liked Titanic – even with the historical inaccuracies. I just thought the poster was as funny as Tigre’s bumper sticker.

    Avatar, I did agree with – lame.

  331. Agree with you too about the journalist saying he had it figured out in 15 minutes…baloney. Lying through his teeth, if you ask me.

    I watched Sixth Sense twice to see what I had missed. R. Shamalamadingdog had me fooled. I thought he was really going to be our next Hitchcock.

    The movies since Signs have been real clunkers.

  332. You know, in the words of Obama’ss spitual advisor, his foreign policy “chiiiiiiiiiiiiiickens have come home to rooooooost”.

    Obama has skipped most of the meetings with his economic advisors and half his national security briefings. What could possibly go wrong?

    The Democrat’s national convention tribute to the military featured pictures of Russian naval ships – because none of those dweezils know the difference.

    Obama’s spent more time playing golf than he has on the economy.

    Yesterday his State Dept. crawled on their bellies like reptiles to issue a groveling apology to jihadis for the acts of private US citizens, denounced Romney before they denounced the attackers, and continue today to denounce US citizens who are exercising their First Amendment rights.

    This kind of weakness only provokes the enemy, so there is surely more to come.

    He makes a battered wife look like Buford T. Pusser. He makes Jimmy Carter look like Metternich.

    He doesn’t have time for Netanyahu, but does have time to go on the Pimp with a Limp radio show in Miami, Letterman, and Fark.

    Iowahawk tweeted “Breaking News: In Emergency move, Netanyahu changes name to Kardashian, wins meeting with Obama.”

    We will have to balance his brilliant successes in foreign policy – Iranian appeasement, Russian appeasement, throwing Poland under the bus, subsidizing Brazilian oil production while throttling domestic production, helping the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, Libya and Syria, to name a few, – with apologizing to coordinated jihadi attackers on the anniversary of 9/11. Perhaps on balance, the record is not so sterling? Perhaps his party could learn to distinguish between the Russian and US Navies whilst bragging about their military prowess? It’s been one bow and scrape after another, and a continuing series of abdications of US interests around the world.

    And they booed God at their convention.

    As Marcia Clark and Chris Darden are to trial advocacy, Obama is to governance.

    Fuck.

  333. Tigre, great post, great points.

    As I watched the video this morning of our diplomat being dragged through the street, a by product of the ‘Arab Spring’ and I read the apology from our embassy for America, I wondered to myself how long will it be before these liberals understand something about Sharia.

    Islam is not just a religion. It is a government. It is a theocracy. And it is inherently evil. And unlike the former Soviet Union or even China, these bastards don’t understand deterrence. The fact we can blow their country to kingdom come is irrelevant. The minute they fissile material, you can count on them using it. Obama fiddles as America burns.

    These leftist fools and Islamic sympathizers have lived their enter lives in a predominately Christian country, never missing a chance to spit in our faces, without recognizing we are the predominate reason they are allowed to live safe and free. It is our sons and daughters who make up the largest part of our security, our military, our history.

    I wanted to laugh: Iowahawk tweeted “Breaking News: In Emergency move, Netanyahu changes name to Kardashian, wins meeting with Obama.”

    But I can’t anymore.

    These people disgust me and endanger my children. They endanger yours too with their abject stupidity and foolishness.

    Perhaps it is time to begin to take a more firm hand in the matter?

  334. “While the responsibility for our lack of credibility in the greater middle east rests with Obama, let’s not forget that our middle east foreign policy is the product of Hillary Clinton, Susan Rice, Samantha Power and others who share their views. These past four years do not reflect well upon their judgment: something to bear in mind when talk of a Hillary Clinton presidency arises.” ~ Professor Stephen Clark

    Enough said.

  335. Gov. Romney said the embassy shouldn’t be apologizing for American values.

    Koran burning doesn’t reflect my values. And the apology was an attempt to quell the rioting, and at the behest of our host nation.

    Obama said that the perpetrators will be brought to justice, and to make no mistake, justice will be served. Sec. Clinton said there is no possible justification for these acts of violence. Doesn’t sound like apologizing to me.

    Romney has proven, in this event, to be given to knee jerk reactions. In trying to score political points before the bodies are even cold, he has proven himself to be a foreign policy buffoon.

    Stevens had friends on both sides of the aisle, including some of the old guard Republicans. Romney’s support within his own party has proven lukewarm at times. This has the potential to chill that relationship even further.

    Still looking forward to the debates, righty tighties?

  336. Yes, I am Thor. And let us hope the discussion starts with this grand foreign policy of which your party bragged four years ago as you genuflected in front of Greek columns at the power of his voice – the respect you spoke of; the power of Obama’s dialogue the cure.

    The apology had nothing to do with burning a Koran. It was this. And your excuses for gross incompetence have once again, grown thin:

    Take a good, hard look at the evidence:

    U.S. Embassy Condemns Religious Incitement

    September 11, 2012

    The Embassy of the United States in Cairo condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims – as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions. Today, the 11th anniversary of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on the United States, Americans are honoring our patriots and those who serve our nation as the fitting response to the enemies of democracy. Respect for religious beliefs is a cornerstone of American democracy. We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others.

    Then explain to the family of the ambassador how it was “our fault” the ambassador dead.

    http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/09/11/the-second-911-today-will-go-down-in-infamy-as-the-day-our-government-became-our-enemy/

    You and your family can die in your ignorance when it comes in force to our shores. And you’ll find unlike the theocracy you claim here in America of those wicked “Christians”, this one for real.

    http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/09/11/the-second-911-today-will-go-down-in-infamy-as-the-day-our-government-became-our-enemy/

  337. From the Libyan Deputy Interior Minister Wanas al- Sharif.

    “They are to blame simply for not withdrawing their personnel from the premises, despite the fact that there was a similar incident when [al-Qaeda second-in-command and Libyan citizen] Abu Yahya al-Libi was killed. It was necessary that they take precautions. It was their fault that they did not take the necessary precautions,”

  338. Tex opined: “Islam is not just a religion. It is a government. It is a theocracy. And it is inherently evil. And unlike the former Soviet Union or even China, these bastards don’t understand deterrence. The fact we can blow their country to kingdom come is irrelevant. The minute they fissile material, you can count on them using it. ”

    Yep. The problem is that you can’t possibly kill them fast enough.

  339. The movie in question is a joke (Innocence of Muslims) and its most ardent supporters are also. Folks in the US had an opportunity to view it once in Hollywood and reports state the theater stood pretty empty. I looked at the trailer,pathetic.
    People in the West ignore crap like this. In Egypt it was dubbed and flogged on television and the internet for the sole purpose to incite. MUSLIMS including a freaking cleric did more to make sure folks saw this thing. YET Americans who had nothing to do with the movie or its message….ITS THEIR FAULT!!!!///

  340. Yep. The problem is that you can’t possibly kill them fast enough.

    No, probably not. But like my mom used to say when I was a younger and dumber numbskull whining about our reduction of nuclear weapons aimed toward the Soviet Union, “Just got to have them aimed at the right persons…”

    I know a few superior Imams and their lackey Mahmoud that need to feel the heat, so to speak. If we are worried about fallout, perhaps it is time to ring their doorbell with a thermobaric as a reminder we can still pack a punch which the chains removed.

    But Obama is way too gutless and timid, still completely confident is profound ignorance and the magnitude of his personality for that to cross his mind.

    Now would be the time to look to history as our guide. And a good one is the Siege of Baghdad in 1258. You won’t find that one mentioned much in the Islamic history book. There’s a good reason for that.

  341. PF, this recent tragedy in Libya only serves to embolden Christians as to the might and right of their religion vs the evil Islam. BiW’s latest post is a sad example of the temporarily good behaving pot calling the kettle black.

    If God is great (or even exists) why so much violence done in His name?

  342. Tex, it has everything to do with burning Korans. The guy promoting this piece of shit “documentary” on the internet is none other than our famous Koran burner in Florida, now hiding in his swamp compound. Shades of the late Rev. Butler hiding in his hole in Idaho.

    Alfie, this IS about freedom of speech. Correct. And out Government has the right to say this view doesn’t represent all Americans as much as the swamp monster has to say it does. And with freedom of speech comes responsibility. He displays none.

    Wish I could go on but must go. Will re-visit tonight.

  343. Yep. The problem is that you can’t possibly kill them fast enough.

    As a follow up to my previous comment, PF be careful how quickly you sign on to Tex’s prescriptions.

    The common thread between Christians and Muslims is the belief in an intervening supernatural force who must be defended and satisfied. This irrational belief is a set up for disaster. It’s been proven throughout history. In modern history, the established Christian church has not been put up against the wall. Do it and lets see how peaceful they remain.

    I’m not defending these crazed fiends in Libya. Don’t get me wrong. I personally favor stone age strategy … a-bombs on Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iran, Iraq and Yemen. Bomb the entire bunch of backwards acting nutjobs back into the stone age and start all over. Spare Israel only because they’ve been through enough already.

    But I don’t base my foreign policy strategy on their religion … I base it on their proven behavior pattern. They are ignorant f*cks who can’t seem to learn how to behave.

    The better strategy is probably the Ron Paul isolationist approach, Let’s get the f*ck out of these countries altogether. No armies, no embassies. Leave them to kill each other while we tend to more urgent affairs back home.

    But let’s get something real straight, I don’t want to hear anyone who believes in the Trinity giving a lecture on evil Islam. The supernatural gives lots of wiggle room for misbehavior. Christians need to STFU about the religion of these criminals and deal with the behavior.

  344. Thor I fully get your notion about wanton offense-giving to other religions. BUT there is ZERO excuse to kill anyone over an idea. Videos express ideas. Koran burning may be offensive. Fine. Be offended. State your case and then STFU. But don’t dare lift a finger to harm anyone. The minute you do, you throw your supposed religious convictions out the window.

    This is the festering blister that tags religions. The self-righteous Christian thinks he can post offensive videos and the nut job Muslim thinks he can kill the guy for it.

    And a truly just God looks down on the whole thing, shakes His head and sheds a tear because everyone is LOST. (Or maybe every single participant in this tragedy is deluded … defending an intervening God that does not exist?)

    The situation is profoundly f*cked up.

  345. Tex, it has everything to do with burning Korans. The guy promoting this piece of shit “documentary” on the internet is none other than our famous Koran burner in Florida, now hiding in his swamp compound. Shades of the late Rev. Butler hiding in his hole in Idaho.

    If you’re that naive, you’re a large part of the problem. It’s an excuse, a crutch to extol violence. Are you trying to tell me this justifies the death of four Americans and the sacking of two embassies? A bad film that wouldn’t pass the muster of high school judges? Heaven forbid somebody else create a Mohammed bombhead cartoon again. The whole world would be set in flame.

    Did you even read the appeasing, groveling letter of apology from Cairo and Obama’s representative?

    Can I assume you’ll be as lenient if by chance some insulting article, film or documentary (and they are created daily) about Christianity, and we kill thousands on the street in the name of irresponsibility and insult?

    If not, you’re as phony as Rutherford.

    See this Thor?

    this recent tragedy in Libya only serves to embolden Christians as to the might and right of their religion vs the evil Islam. BiW’s latest post is a sad example of the temporarily good behaving pot calling the kettle black.

    That magnitude of idiocy doesn’t even deserve a response, as like virtually everything Rutherford posts anymore, it’s goodness and truth is measured whether it assists or hurts Obama’s reelection chances. Rosie O. Lawson.

    How quickly Rosie has forgotten even the lack of religion, without theism, caused 100-200 million deaths in the 20th century alone. Far and away the biggest murdering regimes.

    So let’s blame God for the excess, and Jesus specifically.

  346. Really Rosie? What’s the common thread between Islam and your atheism. Say we start in about 1915 and work or way up through the dates?

    Death…in order of magnitude in the millions. I’m glad you subscribe to the ‘religion’ of Stalin and Mao.

    Let me give you a picture of Christianity’s ‘temporary goodness’ from the battlefield. It’s called Normandy – the headstones chosen by the remaining family members. And then you give me a picture of the temporary goodness of your own faith, or lack thereof.

  347. Once again Rosie, can you clear something up for me?

    To whom are we to pray again, accompanied by your return of thanks? Before the insults, mind you and once your spouse in the clear? Or so you think.

    Is it the positive thoughts that you seek? Kind of the Oprah spirituality stuff? Will that be good enough on your next trip before the hospital? My positive vibes? Kind of a, “Hey, good luck and best wishes!”?

    Just yesterday, your wife recovered. And in return for our prayers no matter whether you believe or not, not 24 hours pass before that to which we believe our prayers directed, and in this case both God and self, is insulted by the spouse of the receiver.

    I can’t tell you how much I admire you as a real genuine person.

  348. By the way Thor. For the record and before you place yourself into the same idiocy as our host:

    On Sept. 11, al-Qaida leader Ayman al-Zawahiri put out a video eulogizing Abu Yahya al-Libi, an Islamist terrorist and high-ranking al-Qaida member, who was killed in a drone attack in June.

    Sources have said they believe the Libyan incident might have been revenge for the death of al-Libi.

    I see no mention of a bad movie. I do see mention of a drone. And I stand with Obama, not the murders, for his actions in killing Abu Yahya al-Libi by any means necessary. He has my thanks.

    http://wtop.com/215/3033617/Officials-Embassy-attack-in-Libya-was-coordinated

  349. R opined: “PF, this recent tragedy in Libya only serves to embolden Christians as to the might and right of their religion vs the evil Islam. BiW’s latest post is a sad example of the temporarily good behaving pot calling the kettle black.”

    Nice try, R, I am no friend (or particular enemy, for that matter) of Christianity, but it ain’t got nothin’ to do with the Christians’ notions of the Evil Islam. It has to do with the Evil Islam – er, I mean, the Religion of Peace.

    These people are like rabid animals; once their brains get contaminated with the virus, the only option is to destroy the animal; there is no cure. They are dangerous, and moreso because they don’t intend to preserve their own lives in the taking of yours.

    I repeat: you cannot kill them fast enough. They are dangerous throwbacks; illogical, irrational, angry, evil – and they have to go. Period.

  350. It’s always nice to drop in and get a fill up on my dose of daily hypocrisy. Thanks guys for not disappointing.

    Oh, BTW, while we’re mentally killing people, can we kill at least one ongoing misconception (of which there are way too many to list) that always comes back to this particular roost? Wishful thinking, I know.

    http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/03/21/the-full-story-behind-rev-jeremiah-wrights-911-sermon/

    Have a good day, if you know what’s good for you. Later.

  351. Old enough to drink tigre, we’ve ordered a case of champagne and already invited friends for a victory party election night. I imagine, you’ll be drinking that night too.

  352. Oh yes, Tool™. That would be the same Roland Martin that was fired from CNN not for racism, but for a stereotypical homophobic slur. 😀

    Well, do you think Roland can explain the legitimacy to us about Wright’s claims from the pulpit that that HIV was created by the US government, “The White Man,” the CIA, or “The Developed World” to wipe out the black race too?

  353. Seriously, how old are you?

    Well Sensico was a college lad a few years back, so dumb she was coined Densico for good measure.

    I would guess about 23-26 now. Being legal to drink might be the only claim of legitimacy yet. Of that I have no doubt, pointing her toes toward the ceiling.

    The executive “husband” still a mystery. 😯

  354. I haven’t even read the comments yet. But let me guess. The liberals are saying that, in fact, the Muslim world was owed an apology by the State Department because of an obscure movie some dude made that NOBODY has heard of? Of course, this apology was given because Egyptian stink beards acted like screaming toddlers, tearing our flag to shreds, on the eve of the American people cutting the Egyptians a check for 1 BILLION DOLLARS! And what did the apology get us? A new crowd dragging our embassader’s corpse the next day?

    Is there anything else that the State Department should apologize for that Muslim’s find offensive? The legendary debauchery of the Beastie Boy tour of 1987? The heresy of the Elijah Mohamed and the Nation of Islam? The road side pulled pork barbecue in South Carolina with that delicious mustered sauce? Elric?

    Give me a break.

  355. I believe it isn’t Religion of Peace you meant Pfesser, but the:

    Religion of Pieces…

    The legendary debauchery of the Beastie Boy tour of 1987? The heresy of the Elijah Mohamed and the Nation of Islam? The road side pulled pork barbecue in South Carolina with that delicious mustered sauce? Elric?

    Elric? 😆 No, no. Definitely the mustard sauce on the pork barbeque. That would throw me into a fit of uncontrolled rage too.

  356. Rutherford. The modern Christian church has not been put up against a wall? Dude. You went to Harvard, right? Surely you had to learn at least a little bit about the Cold War Era. I don’t bring up my Polish ethnicticity much, but my grandparents would fucking despise you due to your ignorance. Hell, my Mom, would too. You live in Chicago now for shits sake. I think a cultural field trip to the local Polish or Lithuanian Parish is in order, you dummy.

  357. Have any of you been keeping up with the news today? You seem to be significantly out of the loop in so far as recent developments.

  358. You don’t like the mustard sauce, tex? You tomato based Texas BBQ types befuddle me. Actually, I’ve never had Texan or Oklahoma BBQ. Loved North Carolina vinigar sauce.

  359. “Any chance they could give you a two-for-one deal and remove that melon-sized obstruction in your rectum? 😆 ”

    LOL I said that very same thing to my wife although I wasn’t talking politics. I was hoping for a complete digestive system transplant. 🙂

  360. .”The self-righteous Christian thinks he can post offensive videos” R

    Woah. Thinks he can? This coming from Mr. Free Speech? Thinks he can? Fuck yeah he can. Just like your blog buddy Poolman can. Or anyone else for that matter.

  361. Newt, the angry violent mob, pissed over the movie, seemed to be used as cover for a professional hit by radical Muslims. Maybe it was pro Qudaffy. But religion or free speech had nothing to do with it? What are you on bath salts? I bet this is just the beginning. The movie will continue to be used by radical Islam to whip their mindless stink beard zombies into a violent frenzy. Friday is not going to be fun.

  362. Why didn’t we already have increased security knowing it was 9/11?

    “He [Obama] condemned the attack, calling it “outrageous and shocking”, and said he had ordered increased security at US diplomatic posts around the world.”

    “In other related incidents on Wednesday, about 50 protesters burned American flags outside the US embassy in Tunisia’s capital, Tunis, but were kept away from the building by reinforced security.”

    “And in Gaza City, dozens of protesters carrying swords, axes and black flags chanted “Shame on everyone who insults the prophet”.

  363. How did an obscure film come to have international ramifications?

    “The trailer began to get much more attention in September. On September 4, the same user posted a version dubbed in Arabic, which has garnered more than 70,000 views.

    Morris Sadek, a Coptic Christian born in Egypt but who lives in the US, told AP he had been promoting the film on his website. He also tweeted a link to the trailer on September 9.

    Sadek, the head of the National American Coptic Assembly, is known for his vehemently anti-Islam views, and told the Wall Street Journal that “the violence that it [the film] caused in Egypt is further evidence of how violent the religion and people are”.

  364. Romney was right to say what he said about the embassy which in effect was applogizing for the movie. We don’t know if the message was coordinated with the White House before it was issued, but Obama was allotted the same time to respond as Romney had.

    Obama looked weak,and Romney appeared presidential. The news media knew this. Two reporters were caught coordinating questions to paint Romney as irresponsibly jumping the gun when in fact, he did not.

  365. The movie was probably a ruse for a planned attack, much as the Iranians found a pretext to take over our embassy during Carter’s administration.

    The Libyans said the US had provided inferior security. If that is true, the president who took credit for killing Ossama bin Ladin bears the responsibility for this failure too.

  366. Egypt, unlike Libya, has been an important ally of the West and Israel for many years. It has a large army, and it has kept the Muslim Brotherhood and other extremists in check for a generation.

    We are watching the equivalent of a star quarterback’s changing sides in the middle of a game.
    In the same sense that Obama deserves credit for Ossama’s death, Obama deserves some of the blame for letting Egypt and the others change sides. We face unknown danger.

    Combine this with the bad economy, the teachers’ strike, and other threats Obama may face a perfect storm just before election day. Of course, it is too early to know, but this week may have turned the election into Romney’s to lose.

  367. “Obama was allotted the same time to respond as Romney had.” “Allotted,” what the hell are you snorting or swilling? Obama is POTUS and he on behalf the government to the country, that other guy, the one smirking and grinning, was campaigning. Big difference!
    This is how presidential candidate Ronald Reagan handled a similar situation.
    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/09/romneys-embassy-attack-response-in-2012-a-far-cry-from-reagan-in-1980/262298/

  368. No Newt, we’re not out of the loop at all. We just don’t pander to your propaganda and you’re not worthy of a response – you’re a hack, a shill, an enabler of failure, and completely confident in your own ignorance.

    Frankly, I don’t give a shit what Obama thinks of Romney’s viewpoints, his comments, or his responses. This is no Romney gaffe but the corrupt media covering for the sorriest excuse of a President the nation has ever witnessed – it’s four dead people under the management of O’Bungler and moronic minions who promised to “restore” America’s reputation while on apology tour.

    Because Obama is the President, and he’s the one that screwed up once again. And he had major assistance from Hillary Rotten Clinton this time.

    That’s really all we need to know and speaking for me, I don’t give a damn to read your excuses from some hate site like Dimocratic Underground. 🙄

  369. Rabbit, you got to get your big ass down here and let me introduce you to barbecue like it is supposed to be eaten. There is nothing on earth more tasty than a full rack of ribs with mouth tissue burning barbecue sauce.

    It’s as close to a caveman as our wives will ever let us get. When we get up from the table if we don’t tip, we’ll beat our chests like King Kong, grab our Bam Bam clubs, and head out on the town, barbecue decorating our face and shirt.

    Mustard is for ham sandwiches and hamburgers.

    You Yanks make a mean Italian pasta, certain places a great Philly Swiss, and your pizza’s not bad either. But you don’t know red meat and pork until you come down South, grab a roll of paper towels, and eat like dogs up on a banquet table.

    Get those guns down here and I’ll take you out for a real treat.

  370. Newt, by allotted, I meant that time moves equally for all of us.Romney used the hours after the murders to react forceably to the embassy’s near applogy. Obama could have disavowed the weak message at any time and said something more forceful, but he didn’t.

    Don’t forget, Muffy,Obama has screwed up too, even at home. Once when his teleprompter malfunctioned, he thanked himself for attending a diplomatic event in the White House. He gave Queen Elizabeth recordings of his speeches on a machine which wouldn’t work in England. He was caught on mike telling the Russian leader he needed to win the next election before he could become a more flexible negotiator. He also angered the Poles to the point they demanded a formal applogy. I don’t know if they got one.

    I don’t know if Romney is an oaf or not. If so, it certainly has not affected his success in life. Obama is a PUTZ, and that is a fact. Last summer, he was campaigning in Iowa twice and he refused to acknowledge our flood or cross Iowa to see it. He certainly finds the time to offer sympathy when he needs votes.

    Read Wordword’s book He wrote that Obama was a weak leader during last summer’s budget discussions. Diane Swawyer worried that Woodward was giving amunition to Romney, and he replied that he was only trying to report what had happened. As Tex wrote, our corrupt press is campaigning for Obama, and Muffy, you would be advised to balance your political reading.

  371. And another thing. Obama couldn’t even write the Obamacare bill.He farmed out to others and before it passed, he didn’t know its contents. Such passivity and inattention was political mall practice. We see it again before and after the embassy attacks.

  372. Texas BBQ is the best. That and chicken fried steak are the only two meals I miss from Lubbock. You can’t even get the same in El Paso. Of course, El Paso isn’t really Texas. I have to make my own BBQ to even get close. You should be able to find Stubbs BBQ sauce, though. I remember him smoking all those yummy meats. Makes my mouth water just thinking about it. I assume OK has same/similar.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Apparently this latest religious flareup was pre-planned and did succeed in taking focus away from the Chicago teacher’s strike. Now we’re targeting green revolution folks with drones. Oh boy! Got to keep the frenzy fueled and the peeps from self governance.

    James, if Obama is to blame for this incident, is Bush to blame for 9-11 and the resulting blow back?

  373. Remember also, Fast and Furious. We don’t know Obama’s role if any because he has locked up the records. Hundreds died because of Eric Holder’s mistakes, and no one seems to care.

  374. Poolman, Bill Clinton bears the ultimate blame for 9/11, and W shares some of the blame too. At the time, he was more worried about a threat from China. In the same sense, this is partly Obama’s fault. The buck stops with the one in charge.

    The reaction to an attack or disaster is a separate issue. Bush obviously made some mistakes, but he also got much of it right. His biggest mistake was invading Iraq before finishing Afghanistan.The jury is still out on Obama’s reaction to this attack.

    Remember the real criminals are the people who started the violence.

  375. Remember the real criminals are the people who started the violence.

    Do you mean those that incited it or those that acted it out.

  376. Remember the real criminals are the people who started the violence.

    They’re now up to 60 countries in committing terrorism. But it has to be America’s fault – like in Bali.

  377. Poolman, here is the secret to perfect chicken fried steak: first plenty of oil, at least 1/2 inch. Second. dredge first in flour, then egg, then in flour again. Third, while the first side is browning, spoon the hot oil on the top of steak to form a good crust. When the bottom is brown, turn it over and finish cooking.

  378. I’ve never been to Texas or Oklahoma before. I would love to try real beef brisket in Texas or Oklahoma. I got turned on to real pork BBQ when I lived in VA thanks to some excursions to NC and SC. It’s cool how each region has their own style. Tex is right. Yanks can’t hold a candle to southern BBQ. While we are famous for coney dogs, I have no idea why. Smoked white fish and pasties are my favorite Michigan food thanks to the Finns of the U.P. James, you might find this interesting. The U.P. is the only place in America that still has a Finnish speaking tv channel.

  379. How long you libs going to whitewash Obama coddling up to Muslim Brotherhood last spring? I know what we need. Another apology tour!

    Whatever happens to the buck stops with Obama? I didn’t think Mitt Romney President yet.

    I left this well enough last spring before Rutherford started turning shitty. Think I’ll post it now for grins:

    Want to Know Just How Close the Muslim Brotherhood Is to the Obama Admin?

    Take a good look at Hussein’s buddies with close ties to Brother Obama and Sister Hillary:

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/want-to-know-just-how-close-the-muslim-brotherhood-is-to-the-obama-admin/

  380. “Sadek, the head of the National American Coptic Assembly, is known for his vehemently anti-Islam views, and told the Wall Street Journal that “the violence that it [the film] caused in Egypt is further evidence of how violent the religion and people are”. Raji

    I suppose the man is correct. No?

    70 thousand hits on YouTube ain’t shit. That’s still pretty obscure.

  381. Owe, by the way.

    I want to commend the Obama Administration for giving Libya $200,000,000 for good will since the spring. $50,000,000 a head.

    Death for Allah is our goal. Right Rutherford. All religions are the same.

  382. Notice today that Newt, and Rutherford have focused on what Romney said about Obama and said little about 4 dead in Libya or the Muslim Brotherhood?

    Obama = Ambiguity and cowardice. There’s your Hope & your Change.

    Jimmy Carter.

  383. Rutherford and I are wise enough to wait until our intelligence people find out who is responsible and let President Obama know where to find them. Any damn fool, Romney or you, can run his mouth. The President has the responsibility to get it right. You people are so ill informed, you don’t even have the time line correct. Don’t you people watch, listen, read the news?

  384. Every single line of 551 is dead wrong. R has never hesitated to spout off without the facts so long as MSNBC gins things up.

    Newt you are unquestionable the most uninformed person on this board. Go back to your democratic underground links where you belong. I am still looking at the end of Romney’s campaign that occurred on August 8th. Boom! What more is there? Your job is done.

  385. “Rutherford and I are wise enough to wait until our intelligence people find out who is responsible and let President Obama know where to find them. Any damn fool, Romney or you, can run his mouth. The President has the responsibility to get it right”

    Im sorry wasn’t this the little bitch who passed judgement on Romney?

  386. Tigre,

    She’s damn near dumber that Dawg…

    Little treat for you, Cheerleader:

    Polls show Romney soars with independent voters

    The CNN/ORC International poll of registered and likely voters released Tuesday shows likely voters favoring Obama by 52 percent to 46 percent over Romney — evidence, pundits said, of a post-convention bump for the president.

    But a figure buried in the report shows Romney leading Obama among likely independent voters, 54 percent to 40 percent.

    Both Democrats and Republicans believe independents will be critical to deciding the outcome of the election, in part because they make up a growing part of the electorate and are considered up for grabs because they fluctuate in their political preferences from one election to the next.

    “That’s a significant lead,” said pollster Ron Faucheux.

    It was the independent vote that helped Obama win the 2008 election. He won 52 percent of independents, compared with 44 percent for McCain. Independents comprised about 33 percent of the overall vote in 2008.

    “If Romney can beat Obama among independents this time, he can win the election.”

    I smell Jimmy Carter – and your rancid perfume masking the yeast infection.

  387. Get a load of this crap – Herr Obama I’m sure, ordering the brass to “call” a private citizen. Retro 1984, here we come:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/12/libya-attack-martin-dempsey_n_1878394.html

    Breaking news from 1944: General Patton asks Warner Bros to pull Bugs Bunny cartoon blaspheming Hitler ~ Iowahawk

    😆 😆

    Dims are beyond the point of desperation, and I smell a rank coward in the Oval Office that isn’t qualified to lead a Boy Scout Troop. Bird legs in a pair of green, baggy shorts.

    Isn’t it an officer’s duty to fulfill their sworn obligation to “support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic”? I believe the Constitution addresses something called free speech by private citizens.

    Reads to me like America’s top soldier needs to step down and sell insurance. I may find that goon down in Florida a pain in the ass, but he’s got every right to say anything he wants about Islam.

    Unbelievable…

  388. Having talked with many of my Conservative friends regarding the polls, we are not in the least concerned by them for many reasons. First is we know the polls manipulate the questions as such as to produced predetermined conclusions. Second, regardless of what people say in a poll, they will look at their lives and ask themselves, am I better or worse for having Obama as President over the past 4 years. Other than Obama and his Wall-street friends, virtually no one can say yes. Other than the Leftists who put politics over the welfare of their family, no one of conscience can cast an Obama vote.

  389. It’s as simple as this, Noah. For anyone who has a rudimentary understanding of math which rules out liberals, ask yourself how many registered Republicans you know that are going to vote for Barack Obama this time around?

    If Mitt Romney is ahead 14% in the polls with Independents, it really doesn’t matter that you need to know much more than that is a 22 point swing in the wrong direction from Obama’s 2008 victory lap from a constituency that represents 33% of the vote.

    That alone evens the popular race, assuming Mitt Romney holds court with John McCain’s unpopularity and horrid campaign. You have to convince me Republicans aren’t more willing to vote Mitt Romney after four years of this abject failure and a little more enthused this time around?

    See, these Dims keep telling me Romney hasn’t connected, but every crowd I see at Romney or Ryan is overflow. This is ABO all the way.

    Now ask yourself who is more enthused to vote? Republicans or Dimocraps?

    The polling math doesn’t add up. Either they are oversampling Dims or undersampling Republicans, because with the voting patterns, it’s pretty much a push from one election to the next. In this case, they would have had to received a significant number of Republicans voting for Obama to account for that number. I know a lot of Republicans around this nation. Not a damn one of them is voting for Obama.

    That’s exactly why I’m not paying a damn bit of attention to polling at this minute like nitwit, living my life through Gallup.

    Wait until the debates, the blow up in the middle east, and the tanking economy 30 days from now. Obama can fudge and lie all he wants about the economy, but people understand it’s in the tank.

    I will pay more attention to polling come about October 15th.

  390. Neither of you understand the electoral college that’s for sure.

    Oh, I’m pretty sure we both can tally to 270 electoral votes, Rosie. We give you Illinois and and the big, broke urban centers of the coasts – they won’t make it 24 months anyway at the rate their going. Their credit is your credit – bankrupt and on strike.

    My biggest concern is how to wall them in and you with them so they don’t pollute God’s land.

  391. Just yesterday, your wife recovered. And in return for our prayers no matter whether you believe or not, not 24 hours pass before that to which we believe our prayers directed, and in this case both God and self, is insulted by the spouse of the receiver.

    I need to get to bed but I wanted to address this.

    Tex, I’m truly sorry if this offends you. I’m sorry that you can’t reconcile my position. When you or Thor or any religious person tells me that I am in your prayers (sincerely, not just rote bullsh*t), I focus on your intent. I don’t focus on the specifics of “prayer” per se. To you, that cheapens your prayer offering. I’m sorry that you feel that way. What matters to me is the intent to comfort.

    My gripe has always been with organized religion. (In fact, the older I get the less I like organized anything.) I may find your belief in an intervening God irrational but I can accept it in the context of how you express care for your friends and family. In that context, I am moved and I am appreciative of your prayers. That is an individual interaction between you and me. Not an interaction between me and all of Christianity. You cannot fathom that I can accept and appreciate your prayer for me while simultaneously finding the belief behind it (i.e. that there is someone to pray to) a bit hard to swallow.

    What Pfesser fails to understand in his arguments with you is that religion is personal. When either of us mocks or attacks your religion you don’t view it intellectually. You view it personally. And you are hurt by it. If I were a better man, I’d keep it in mind and put a permanent stop to it. It’s just that I have a visceral association in my head between organized religion and some very negative outcomes. And that visceral reaction causes me to lash out.

    It’s a compartmentalization that you have trouble understanding. And I am truly sorry for that.

    P.S. After the doctor told me my wife was going to be ok yesterday, I said to myself “thank God”. I didn’t really mean that an intervening God had mercy on me yesterday. I really meant that I was thankful that fate (or luck or whatever you want to call it) was kind to me yesterday. I view these things as rather random and it could just as easily have gone horribly wrong. All in all, over the past 51 years, I’ve been an incredibly lucky man.

  392. I haven’t read through all of today’s comments but since BiW just posted a blog piece full of misinformation I wanted to bust the balloon here before retiring for the night.

    The State Dept issued its “apology” for the YouTube video (to call it a “film” is a joke) BEFORE the Egyptian embassy was breached or the Ambassador to Libya was killed. So this accusation by Romney that we responded to the breach with an apology is pure BS. Old Mitt had ME believing this crap until I saw news reports refuting it.

    Romney pulled a “Rutherford blames dead census worker on Tea Party” move today. He should have held his fire until he learned the facts. Now he looks impulsive, and politically opportunistic. A few more blunders like this one and he can truly kiss the election goodbye.

  393. “If God is great (or even exists) why so much violence done in His name?” – R

    Because people are severely flawed. And power, or what is perceived as power, is seductive.

  394. “In modern history, the established Christian church has not been put up against the wall. Do it and lets see how peaceful they remain.
    I’m not defending these crazed fiends in Libya. Don’t get me wrong. I personally favor stone age strategy … a-bombs on Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iran, Iraq and Yemen. Bomb the entire bunch of backwards acting nutjobs back into the stone age and start all over. Spare Israel only because they’ve been through enough already.” – R

    Complete blather. In the modern era, Christians have been slaughtered in China, Russia and the entire Eastern Block. I have a friend who moved here with his family from Kazakhstan when he was young. His father looks twenty years older than he is and walks all bent over from his time in prison there. To this day, Christians are persecuted and murdered in Syria, Iraq, China, the Sudan and Lebanon.

    Why nuke Libya? Their security forces tried to protect our diplomats. And why isn’t Saudi Arabia on your list? You do realize most of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudis, right?

  395. “Are you trying to tell me this justifies the death of four Americans and the sacking of two embassies?” – Tex

    No. Absolutely not. Never. And I already said as much.

    “Did you even read the appeasing, groveling letter of apology from Cairo and Obama’s representative?” – Tex

    Yes. And it was in Egypt and had little to do with Libya. Ill-advised or not, the apology was an attempt to protect the diplomats there which the Egyptian government was unable or unwilling to protect. In Libya, on the other hand, Libyan security forces fought side-by-side with the Americans to beat back the terrorist attackers. Looks like we should take away the money we are giving to Egypt and give it to the fledgling democracy in Tripoli.

    “Can I assume you’ll be as lenient if by chance some insulting article, film or documentary (and they are created daily) about Christianity, and we kill thousands on the street in the name of irresponsibility and insult?” – Tex

    Not being pedantic, but there seems to be something missing here. If you are asking if I would condone an attack on a Libyan embassy, no I wouldn’t.

  396. Didn’t offend me in the least, Rutherford. No apology required.

    People who hurt me, I must first love or at least have close relationship. You and I are coworkers, political adversaries, partners in crime, something. But it’s not friendship – that requires respect. And with what you’ve said in the past about my faith, I have no respect for your opinions. I may respect you are a talented author. I appreciate use of your blog and respect that you allow a mouth like me to gig you at your own house – you’ve got an incredibly thick hide and have often wondered if the roles reversed, would I prove as tolerant. I would show respect to your family in your house or on the town.

    But when you make a comments about my God, you would do better to aim straight at me if you want my respect as a person. Your comment today showed a lack of character and reinforced it was silly for me to think that it was anything more than blog jousting on our best day. We’re simple political foes that enjoy the sting of battle.

    Your mockery is offensive, yes. But hurtful to me? Not in the least. No more so than Bill Maher would mean something to me if he were to insult my faith.

    I just chalk it up to either profound foolishness and an incredible lack of perspective on your behalf.

    However, the offer of thought was sincere as would be the offer to anybody on this board. When Pfesser asked about my dad, I didn’t attribute to any real concern, but simply being gentlemanly and compassionate. And it was. And it was appreciated from a stranger to a stranger.

    I’m glad your wife is okay for both her sake, your daughter’s sake, and your sake. I’m not without mercy or compassion, and I could tell you were both scared and worried.

    And unless I am mistaken, you’ll note I didn’t say I would pray for you and your wife. But others did. I said I would be thinking about you and in responding to your comment. The comment covered a multitude of well wishes and prayers, the latter which you singled out as insult. So I responded in kind.

  397. Not to burst the bubble Thor. But we’ve already given Libya money since the spring. $200,000,000 if I’m not mistaken so they can kill our citizens. What the Egyptian ambassador should have said is this is our property by international law, and you can kiss our ass as our own Constitution allows citizens the right of free expression, no matter how offended. Money should immediately be defunded from Egypt. No excuses.

    Rutherford isn’t aware of this. But Christians are the most persecuted religion on the planet by sheer numbers. And the most peaceful while being persecuted. Over a million died last year alone…

    If our history as violent as Rutherford absurdly attests, we could lay waste to most of this planet in minutes and him along with it.

    It’s probably his stupidest charge amongst the many he makes. He lives in a land of predominately Christians, and I doubt he fears for his life from them. One of them might have saved his wife’s life. Rutherford might fear from Obama’s community activism and neighborhood, which resembles Beirut.

    Dhimmitude makes fools of almost all liberals – the more irreligious, the dumber they talk about the way things really are.

  398. “So this accusation by Romney that we responded to the breach with an apology is pure BS. Old Mitt had ME believing this crap until I saw news reports refuting it.
    Romney pulled a “Rutherford blames dead census worker on Tea Party” move today. He should have held his fire until he learned the facts.” – R

    This is exactly the assessment I made this morning and I was held out as some free-speech-hating-terrorist-appeaser for doing so.

  399. “If our history as violent as Rutherford absurdly attests, we could lay waste to most of this planet in minutes and him along with it.” – Tex

    I think violent Islamic fundamentalists are still following methods and justifications abandoned by Christianity after the Inquisition or even, it could be argued, as late as the witch hunts or manifest destiny.

    IMO, the enemy is not any one religion, but violent fundamentalism in any religion. In my lifetime, Communism was once the word leader in that regard. Now it appears to be Islam.

  400. I read the embassy statement, and it was close to an apology. In that respect, Romney was right. Obama should have disavowed the statement as soon as he heard it. To say otherwise is BS.

    Otherwise, I agree with thor. Violent Islamic fundamentalists illustrate the need for the Muslim religion to undergo a Reformation as Christians did.

    Someone estimated the extremists to be about a tenth of the religion. If so, we face millions of people who want to destroy us. They are fighting a long war which began over a thousand years ago.

    I don’t believe whole scale bombing will accomplish our goals. Better as Hillary said, we find the actual evil doers and excise them from the general population,.

  401. I know from personal experience in the service that if you are in danger, you remain defiant. You never appologize for something you didn’t do. Our embassy personnelle did nothing to deserve violence and death. Neither did the US. A stupid movie was not worth such a reaction, if indeed it was the reason for the uproar, which I doubt.

    Therefore, Mitt was right,

  402. Rutherford @ 567 –
    I don’t think you need to apologise for your beliefs anymore than anyone else. Neither you nor I ever bring Christianity up, but it always gets brought in by someone else. (Islam is a different thing; they are in a war against the world, and always in the spotlight.) At that point, neither of us is obligated to sit with our hands folded if we think it is lunacy. If it’s so personal, boys, then goddammit, keep it to yourself, because when you bring it out in public, it’s fair game, just like Romney, Obama, any other belief.

    If someone wants to say to me, “I just believe it; I can’t justify that belief rationally, but it makes my life complete,” I have nothing to say. I know people like that; we are good friends, and the topic never comes up.

    But here it is always brought up – never by the non-believers – who then get their delicate sensibilities outraged when someone calls them out on it.

    Sorry – no topic is off-limits. Don’t want to talk about it? Then don’t. I’ll guarantee that Rutherford and I have other, more interesting, fish to fry.

  403. Rutherford, you brought up an excellent point on BiW’s latest blog post regarding the timing of the invite to Morsi. The headline at Gateway is misleading as it was intended to be. If you follow the links to The Hill (dated 7/9/12) then to Reuters (dated 7/8/12) it is obvious that the meeting was preplanned as all State meetings are.

    I am surprised at BiW for being so inflammatory as he is usually quite accurate in his information biased of course as you are biased which is not the point here. Regardless people will see this meeting as a result of the current events in Egypt and a slap at Israel.

  404. In July, 2008, Barrack Obama used the death of troops in Afghanistan as a talking point to criticize Bush and McCain for their support of the Iraq war. BuzzFeed Politics.

    Betsy’s Page: “There was an effort-not entirely conscious- to make it illegitimate for Romney to crtriticiize the presidents foreign policy at a moment when foreign policy has suddenly taken center stage. But that’s excactly when such a debate should take place.”

    “So it appears one politician can say whatever he likes and the other can’t because you know,there’s an election to win, and the self-appointed referees are also the fans.”

    I remember when Hillary said public discent was the highest form of patriotism.

    The Democrats are using the same tactics as the extremists. When the opportunity presents itself, they plan and coordinate their attack for maximum effect.

  405. James, looks like they’re upset that Mitt Romney had the temerity to criticize the State Department for a statement that the White House itself disavowed after it was made. What the hell gives? This is a complicit media again. Obama’s got a damn FP crisis on his hands, and apparently a predictable one at that. Here we go again. Obama’s feigns hurt sensibilities to avoid the real dilemma he faces with his flawed FP and those chickens at home rooooosting.

  406. Moving on to new information, it seems whoever made the film or trailer that incited the mobs did it deliberately to create that effect. That is scary. This could eventually evolve other countries in the region, it has already hit Yemen. Keep in mind, American civilians do business and even live in these countries, no way our government will be able to protect them. And by stirring things up more in Afghanistan our troops there are also put in a even more perilous position. Someone or some group with at least $5million is trying to start an all out war.
    Remember two days ago, Poolman said, something about Israel (I don’t recall what), but it so upset Tex, that Tex was talking about chopping off Poolman’s head. If a Christian can take that much offense at remark about another religion of Abraham are you really surprised followers of another religion of Abraham (Islam) takes offense at this Utube video? The protesters outside the embassy(s) are naive, news isn’t available to them and most have little education so they are easily led.
    Right now, our best hope, our intelligence people, could probably use your prayers to defuse this situation.

  407. I noticed that too, Eltigre. Obama’s campaign, including much of the press, sees that flock of chickens too, and they are doing their best to draw our attention elsewhere. Considering the stupidity of much of the electorate, it might work.

    Newt. I read the same thing.I basically agree with you. However, this outrage is by design. A relatively small group of people create outrage when the opportunity presents itself.They stir up emotions of unsuspecting people. I think we are entering a time of great danger.

  408. That recording of the two media people conspiring to coordinate their questions against Romney is the final nail in the coffin in the conversation of media bias. No big surprise it has gotten so little play. The media is not here to report the news, they are here to push their Leftist agenda.

  409. We’ve always been in grave danger James. Some people derive power, money, etc from war so they stir passions to create situations that cause nations to blunder into wars.

  410. ‘In 1980, the foreign-policy debate didn’t stop because Americans were held hostage in Tehran. Nor did it stop in 2004 because Americans were fighting and dying in Iraq. Sen. John Kerry used the occasion of the 1,000th death in Iraq to attack everything about the war. One of his ads included the graphic: “2 Americans beheaded just this week.” you go Mitt Romney.. point out bull shit when you see bull shit.’

  411. What is the big conspiracy, “where are your tax returns?” “Tell us how you plan to balance the budget, pay down the debt, and still the top 1% another massive tax cut?” The fact that people are will to vote for someone they know absolutely nothing about is astounding.

  412. Barack Obama Used Troop Deaths To Ding Bush, McCain Support For Iraq In 2008

    Oh, but I thought that unique to only Republicans…Newton, Rutherford and Thor.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/barack-obama-used-troop-deaths-to-ding-bush-mccai

    Oh, and that massive tax cut? The rate would remain exactly as is. I know math isn’t your thing, but if A = B and B = C, then A = C. Deep, I know. But put down the pom poms and give it some thought. You could tax every millionaire and billionaire 100%, and it would only pay a very small fraction of the yearly OweBlamo debt.

    By the way, the headlines today in the OweBlamo economy read:

    Jobless claims rise to 382,000 in latest week…

    Congratulations on another outstanding business report.

  413. Remember two days ago, Poolman said, something about Israel (I don’t recall what), but it so upset Tex, that Tex was talking about chopping off Poolman’s head. If a Christian can take that much offense at remark about another religion of Abraham are you really surprised followers of another religion of Abraham (Islam) takes offense at this Utube video?

    Need to read it again, dummy.

    Moi sawing Poolman’s head off (I can hardly keep two hands on the keyboard just thinking about the thrill it), has to do with Poolman claiming our government killed 3,000 of its citizens and blaming Israel in conspiracy with Darth Cheney doing it.

    The only thing religion has anything to do with the conversation is the aiding and abetting our enemy called Islam.

    And you’re probably right there with him with your room temperature IQ.

    But I don’t want to saw your head off. I want to put an apple in your mouth, with a gigantic piece of duct tape over it for about 60 days….before you slither back from where the heck you came when OweBlamo gets marched to the curb.

    Romney back up, by the way. 😉 That didn’t take long, did it?

  414. RAGE AGAINST AMERICA….U.S. embassies attacked in Yemen, Egypt after Libya envoy killed.

    Remember how Obama was going to restore our reputation around the world? Remember the days of wine and roses when Obama granted a Nobel Prize 12 days into his adminstration?

    Have no fear. They are still all in for Obama. From Hamas and Hezbollah, to the Muslim Brotherhood, to Putin, to Castro and Hugo, even the Eurowienies.

    Everyone, most of all Obama, striving for a further weakened America. Ah, birds of feather…

    #FAIL….The Obama Doctrine

  415. I need a break. I leave you with this, “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” Voltaire

  416. How fricking stupid is this entire Administration? Anne Patterson had to be an Obama campaign bundler – only they could be this stupid. I doubt even Dumbo for Pres. would have ordered this:

    U.S. Marines defending the American embassy in Egypt were not permitted by the State Department to carry live ammunition, limiting their ability to respond to attacks like those this week on the U.S. consulate in Cairo.

    Ambassador to Egypt Anne Patterson “did not permit US Marine guards to carry live ammunition,” according to multiple reports on U.S. Marine Corps blog spotted by Nightwatch. “She neutralized any US military capability that was dedicated to preserve her life and protect the US Embassy.”

    If true, the reports indicate that Patterson shirked her obligation to protect U.S. interests, Nightwatch states.

    “She did not defend US sovereign territory and betrayed her oath of office,” the report states. “She neutered the Marines posted to defend the embassy, trusting the Egyptians over the Marines.”

    While Marines are typically relied on to defend U.S. territory abroad, such as embassies, these reports indicate that the Obama administration was relying on Egypt’s new Muslim Brotherhood-backed government to ensure American security, a move observers are questioning as violence in Cairo continues to rage.

  417. Yes, we are always in danger, Newt, especially now. Consider what would happen if someone sabataged oil wells in the Middle East or created an economic scare.

    I like “The fact that people will vote for someone they know absolutely nothing about is astounding” because its true. We knew so little about Barrack Obama that Tom, Brokaw said “we don’t even know what he reads.”

    We often vote for images and concepts instead of living people.It didn’t work out too well last time.

  418. About the same time, the Republican National Committee and prominent Republicans such as Dick Cheney and John McCain threw another faulty bit of plumbing at Obama: that the president “does not attend his daily intelligence meeting” more than half the time, in contrast to George W. Bush, who “almost never missed his daily intelligence meeting.” This claim was the work of former Bush speechwriter Marc Thiessen, who writes a weekly online column for The Washington Post.

    In reality, Obama didn’t “attend” these meetings, because there were no meetings to attend: The oral briefings had been mostly replaced by daily exchanges in which Obama reads the materials and poses written questions and comments to intelligence officials. This is how it was done in the Clinton administration, before Bush decided he would prefer to read less. Bush’s results — Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction, and the failure to find Osama bin Laden — suggest this was not an obvious improvement. Dana Milbank in the Washington Post.

    And there goes another distortion about Obama’s concern for the nation’s security. When I first read about the “missed meetings” I became concerned. Why do I keep forgetting that conservative critics can be found to be lying simply when they move their lips? That’s twice this week that I’ve been duped by conservatives … first the attack on the “apology” and then this “Obama skipped 50% of security briefings”. Both founded on lies and distortions.

    And then folks wonder why my rhetoric lately is getting more emotional. I HATE deliberate lying.

    Why don’t we just skip this six week wait and vote today? No matter how bad this economy is, Romney has proven he does not deserve to win this election. Let’s get it over with and get on with more serious issues. This campaign between a sitting President and a joke is nothing more than a distraction from VERY serious things we must pursue. 😦

  419. Romney has proven no such thing. Obama certainly has proven he should be fired. The missed meetings didn’t concern me enough to mention them, but the smearing of Romney did.

    The attack on the “apology” was truthful. American Spectator says the man is Larry Schwartz. He wrote the message and the State Department directed him not to post it without changes. Schartz released it anyway, and he defended it for awhile. He should be f