And The VP is …

As I write this Friday night MSNBC reports three reliable sources saying Paul Ryan is the VP pick for Romney. CNN is being more cautious in their reporting. Fox is hedging its bets also.

I’ll update this post tomorrow morning after Romney announces his running mate at 8:45 am EDT.

Update 8/11/12

MSNBC got it right and this morning at about 9:15 Eastern time, Mitt Romney announced Paul Ryan as his Vice Presidential running mate. Upon his introduction, Ryan came bounding down the stairs of the USS Wisconsin (now a museum), the picture of vigor and vitality. He looked genuinely thrilled to be there. In fact, unlike his benefactor, Ryan looked genuine all the way around. Not a false note in body language nor delivery. His speech had just the right balance of gravity, optimism and pride of country.

Debt, Doubt and Despair

I love it when politicians (or their speech writers) find these neat alliterative phrases to capture the moment. There is no arguing with the debt part of the equation. There can also be little doubt that a good portion of the country is filled with doubt and despair. After Ryan’s speech, I played Obama’s introduction of Biden four years ago and I could not help but feel a bit sad. Ryan’s description of our country is not far from the truth and no one who believed in Barack Obama four years ago could have imagined that debt, doubt and despair could remotely describe our country in 2012.

We promise equal opportunity, not equal outcomes

Right when Ryan’s just about got you by the throat and you’re ready to say “dammit, I’m tired of waiting for a recovery, it’s time for a change”, he tosses out that well worn conservative cop-out for keeping the poor, poor and the rich, rich. When Ryan says America promises equal opportunities, someone needs to ask him does America make good on that promise? The implicit message of Ryan is that there is an equal playing field and the outcomes are not equal by virtue of inadequacies in those who do not make it. It’s that old Herman Cain chestnut “if you don’t have a job and you’re not rich, blame yourself.”  Obviously self-reliance is a great virtue but what the liberal sees that the conservative fails to see is that there are systemic societal forces that interfere with self-reliance. There are many no-opportunity-zones in this country where there is little hope of escaping poverty.

I will be more impressed with Paul Ryan when he tells me how he is going to make good on that promise of equal opportunity. Once he and Mitt implement that plan, and opportunities  really become equal, then I can make peace with the lack of equal outcomes.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

Photo by United States Congress [Public domain], via Wikimedia Commons

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438 thoughts on “And The VP is …

  1. Ryan or Rubio. Either one is infinitely better than the twin butt cheeks Obama and especially the atrophied butt cheek, Jolting Joe Biden. What a moron – and utter disgrace of failed leader. Incredibly stupid and arrogant. Of course, that reads like Bomba too. 😛

    When they closet you in the Bomba regime, you got to be profoundly stupid.

    They were my twin preferences – though I didn’t think Ryan really in the running. Also like Bob McDonnell.

  2. I’m sad not to pick Rubio. I like how he handles himself.

    My first thought when Obama picked Biden was that for all the talk of a new day he went and picked a definition of Washington insider.

  3. Rubio would get the Obama-inexperience charge. Romney doesn’t need that.

    My safe choice Pawlenty is a bad one because he coined “Obamneycare”. That’s a liability.

    Fox is saying that McDonnell may be the choice cos the announcement will be in Virginia. Only MSNBC is making a bold prediction about Ryan. Everyone else is hedging.

  4. I love the shot near the end as Obama smolders and start ah ah ah-ing and Joe plays Tic Tac Toe.

    He’s going to make Joe cry in the debate.

  5. Pundits say, Paul Ryan, that will energize his base, and we are pretty happy with his choice too. That is probably, the last time for awhile we agree on something. Sleep tight all.

  6. Someone just tweeted that Ryan has never held a private sector job — another Obama or false spin?

    No announcement yet but the games begin.

    You almost have to feel bad for Ryan. His next 90 days will be hell.

  7. Should we establish a pool on how many times Recovery Summer Joe refers to himself as Constitutional expert during the V.P. debate? What a damn joke.

    Hell, Biden couldn’t beat Sarah Palin in a debate and thinks jobs is a three letter word.

    I think Foodstamp picked Biden for V.P. because Biden is so profoundly stupid, Foodstamp couldn’t possibly look as bad. Even I pray that Obama makes it to January as President. Biden could screw up a wet dream.

  8. The word is out. Ryan came upon a gay youth running from zombies and Ryan tripped him and the zombies fell upon the boy.

    Prove that it didn’t happen, Mr. Ryan.

  9. Why is he announcing on a weekend news cycle. Isn’t that when you cut people loose that are embroiled in scandal or announce you are giving yourself a pay raise?

  10. I would think it would have to be Portman or Rubio. Romney almost has to flip both Ohio and Florida to have a chance. Ryan really?

    What a yawn. It will be fun to relive the right wing social engineering stuff though.

  11. Had not planned on it, Thor. Where I live now it isn’t as easy to view the sky. Too much light pollution. I would love to watch from Aztec Peak, but alas, too long a drive.

  12. I personally thought it was going to Ryan especially after the coining of the term “Americas Comeback Team”.
    Ryan is a good choice although one with clear,tasty fruit for the opposition to pick at.
    Ryan represents a potential clear tone Romney wants. Like it or not Ryan did pony up a plan and one that didn’t shy away from all the third rails We the People have juiced up so high.
    Call it totally biased spin but here is my last call on this.
    R&R represents a choice,not just for 2012 but a tone setting move that flirts with the total paradigm shift America needs to make.(entitlements,role of government,FP shift)
    Obama for all his detractors doesn’t hold the same potential outside of the opportunity to stack the SCOTUS over the next four years.
    Those statements have A LOT of layers. Not to be snobby but they’re really based on some deep reflection.

  13. To poolman from the last.
    No sleepless nights for me,at least none caused by Rupie and his groupies.
    From what I see Paul is not gonna get a podium trip since the Maine folks have porked it all up.
    All my Paul positions still hold. You and others should vote your conscience in the general. The libertarian wing needs to purge itself and rethink what it really wants. It is NEVER going to control the GOP. Its relevance in the wings will need someone other than Ron. A Paul inspired third party is a great idea in many ways. It would challenge the overall system in a credible manner.

  14. @ ET keep in mind it isn’t me picking per se but what I see as fruit ok?
    Outside politics work history and the details of his budget plan. The former allows folks to paint the disconnected from the common folks mural the latter offers awesome sound bites for the ignorant elderly types and others too. Could prove a turnout motivator.

  15. As Krauthammer said, although Obama supporters seem “immune from irony,” picking at his outside work history (or FP experience) would have to be somewhat laughable given their choice in 2008.

  16. I think it is a good, solid pick. I agree with your assessment Alfie – a true ‘paradigm’ shift. Either we get serious about the budget deficit as a country, or we go the way of the dodo.

    It also tells me that Romney and his pollsters feel pretty good about Florida.

  17. From an appearance standpoint, I think Ryan focuses the topic to the budget. It looks serious and to dismiss it has the opposite effect.

    It’ll gin up the base.

  18. @ thor 17… think of it this way.
    The weekend talking head hump shows will have the weekend. Initial non vetted salvoes will be launched without having to address them. Monday they look like a a solid team touring the battleground states only two days in they hit the big ticket state of FLA.
    No I think this was a good logical play.
    Of course the opposition will be well rested come Monday too but as evidenced by newt tp linkage only the base will care until September or so,then it could be too late for either side.

  19. Tex @ 26. That was hilarious! 😆 I love this internet thingie. Even court jesters and ass clowns can have a platform. What a schtick!

  20. If it is a R&R ticket against Obama/Biden, it is already sunk. May as well save the money that will be wasted in the next few months and put it toward worthwhile and tangible things.

    I could see a Rubio or Christie choice coming closer to competing, but Ryan has a freshly proven record of ignorance – his fantastical budget plan.

  21. “Ryan has a freshly proven record of ignorance – his fantastical budget plan.”

    Do tell.

    More pointedly, in what ways does the Obama budget plan more closely align with Doctor Paul’s plan than Ryan’s does?

  22. Oh muffy, you animator you. 😉 Ron Paul would not cut social programs immediately, rather phase them over time. Military and security spending is the elephant you ‘conservatives’ refuse to address.

    If we get R&R, we might as well let Bibi steer us. Romney just got back from sucking Bibi off and raised a million Jew bucks to boot.

  23. @ poolman Wow ! sour grapes.
    @ Newt yeah that room really captured the spirit of the WI 1st. LOL nice plant too from the long winded history lesson fail turd. thanks theres some minutes of my life wasted with shit ironically from an entity titled TP. Thats convenient anyway.

  24. I’ll repeat the question you fucking parrot.

    In what ways does the Obama budget plan more closely align with Doctor Paul’s plan than Ryan’s does?

  25. Israel is fixing to attack Iran and Obama has been holding that back, even though he has greatly pressured Iran through imposed sanctions. They’re backed in a corner.

    Romney would green light it and send our assets in, no question.

    The guy pronounced Jerusalem capital of Israel and gave them carte blanc over all their “promised lands”. That is essentially permission for genocide to the rest of the living.

  26. First off Obama has done NOTHING to impress Israel. The lack of action on Israel’s behalf has more to do with logistical issues and political issues in the region.
    Romney’s Jerusalem statement…wasn’t for Jewish folks it was for Evangelicals in the US of A.
    As a matter of physical possession Israel has had and will continue to have carte blanche over their land. Obama and Paul and Romney HAVE ZERO IMPACT ON IT

  27. When are you going to get that I do not support the Obama budget plan? Why would I want to compare or defend it?

    Dr Paul has a plan to shrink the federal government. That means the welfare state goes away over time. A vision of what that could be as slowly communities begin to take back responsibility for taking care of themselves.

  28. Mr. Search Terms = “Jew Hate.” Graduate of the University of Google.

    “When are you going to get that I do not support the Obama budget plan?”

    Never, Pinocchio. Because that IS who you are.

  29. Dr Paul has a plan to eliminate,unthinkingly, large chunks of the federal government. That means the welfare state goesinto full revolution. A vision of what that could be is what comes to the senile mind of Dr. Paul. As if communities actually had any real desire to exert/embrace the responsibility for taking care of themselves.This is the sad truth Paulists fail to acknowledge

  30. I am concerned about Rutherford, he said, he would be back this morning after the announcement and we haven’t even a comment from him so far today. Hope you are okay Rutherford!

  31. I think Mitt choose Ryan to head off a revolt at his own convention, there is no way the choice of Ryan helps him in the general election. Like all Democrats, I just love his choice of VP!

  32. Alfie, apathy has been bred into our being. But there is only so much a people will take before they revolt. It’s part of our spirit and many of our youth HAVE become aware. You accuse Dr Paul of senility? I see persistent and consistent ideology as sound and solid. He wants nothing more than what our founders and freedom lovers across the globe desire.

  33. The guy pronounced Jerusalem capital of Israel and gave them carte blanc over all their “promised lands”.

    So did the God you profess to love. 🙄

    Believe the Muffster has you pegged, Toolman™. I do love it so when she sets your worthless, Jew hatin’ ass on fire, then we pull out the bellow.

  34. Newt, the thought of you hags making fun of anybody’s appearance amuses me. You’re harpies are worse than the fat girls in high school.

    Seen a picture of Juanita? 😆 And she wants to make fun of someone’s appearance?

  35. I understand from good source that is Ms. Juanita Jean above. Now look at that mutt faced bitch and tell me she’s got any business judging someone’s appearance? 😆 😆

    Lipstick on a turd….who does her hair? 😆

    Hey Newton. Tell Juanita Jean I said she’s a dog-faced tool, four double chins glued to a horse’s ass. Tell her Tex said that.

  36. So did the God you profess to love.

    Not really, though I understand how you’ve been MANipulated™ to think that. It has served to divide and subdue nations and peoples.

    then we pull out the bellow.

    That IS your greatest ability. I don’t think I’ve met one better. 😀

  37. Alfie, apathy has been bred into our being.
    Another of your infinite wrongs pools. As for Paul he is no better than any other pol and a whole lot worse than some. He is a populist turd who enjoys his minions following just like any cultist or dictator found through history. the aware youth you speak of are amongst us every year like a crop product. Fortunately the energy and passion of youth is wasted upon the young. The 20 somethings who hail OWS and RP and Obama for that matter have a proven track record just as those that cried “Solidarity”,”hail mein Fuehrer” and “No taxation without representation.”

  38. Glad you’re doing better, Tex. Hope dad is on his way to healthy.

    That West Nile is heartless. I had a client almost die from it a few years ago. Thankfully, he got his immune system up and enjoys his golf game to this day. It was a shaky bout for several months. It delayed the pool we were building for them.

    I had built a pool for the gal before with her last husband. She is a friend of my mom’s husband. Her first hubby was on oxygen smoking marlboro reds on the back patio when I met him. He’d wheel his oxygen out there while he’d suck those things. He passed before we finished the pool.

    Then, to have her remarry and many years later contract for a pool and her new husband contact WNV and barely make it. Too much.

  39. Another of your infinite wrongs pools.

    That’s a lot of wrongs! But then, you are saying Americans are NOT apathetic? I guess I disagree with that. We do get enthusiastic over sports and movies. So, yeah. I suppose misplaced priorities is more the ticket. But I still see that as intentionally bred into this culture.

  40. DALLAS – Dallas County Judge Clay Jenkins declared a public health emergency in Dallas County Thursday due to the West Nile virus epidemic in the area.

    Jenkins instructed the Homeland Security and Emergency Management Department to file a local disaster declaration with the state.

    “This declaration will expand our avenues for assistance in our ongoing battle with West Nile virus,” Jenkins said. “We are in constant communication with our state and regional partners. We will continue to make data and research driven decisions in seeking to supplement the outstanding work of Dallas County’s director of Health and Human Services (DCHHS) Zachary Thompson.”

    Jenkins organized a work session on Friday, August 10, with county, state and federal health and emergency management officials to discuss their response to the virus outbreak. They will hold a press conference afterward to share any pertinent information, updates and decisions reached.
    There have been nine West Nile-related deaths in Dallas County summer and 12 overall in North Texas.

    http://www.wfaa.com/news/health/Dallas-County-declares-state-of-emergency-due-to-West-Nile-165675936.html

  41. Alfie, this article speaks to the way we have conditioned the American youth. This was all introduced systematically and methodically over time, and is the primary reason for our ‘crop product’.

    Life in modern America is becoming increasingly polarized. A false two-party system, designed and executed by the elite class, allows this class to continue to swim in money while public institutions, such as schools and parks, cease to operate. Public purpose is often distorted and the social contract is undermined as families are dispossessed.

    In communities around the country, many working-class Americans know about class repression and resistance while many academics often seem to operate in a detached, parallel universe. This is primarily why independent media, along with its popular support, must continue to honestly articulate the searing indictments of our supposed democracy.

    http://mediaroots.org/mr-transcript-americas-war-on-kids.php

  42. Newt, are you telling me that yukking it up over the VP pick’s cowlick at some phony (though much needed) virtual beauty parlor of a circle jerk is what you meant by “fun?” Do you see any “issues” there?

    I was expecting more from the ladies of the left.

    In the meantime I’ll speak to the major beef y’all have of Ryan over at Januita and Margaret’s –

    Paul Ryan is a sexy beast in that video of him schooling the twin coconuts, Obama & Biden. Too bad the camera didn’t pan down to the floor, we’d have probably seen a couple pairs of balls rolling around under there. Ryan is more man than Obama, Biden, Anthony Beiber, Ooompa Loompa Grayson, Liz Warren, and Harry Pelosi-Reid all rolled into one. He’s verrrrry attractive. Nice and easy on the eyes. rrrrrrrrr.

  43. Hi, all. Muffy–I can’t see it. To me, the absolutely great looking politician (and the one I had hoped would get the Republican nomination) was Huntsman. mm, mm, mm.

  44. From the prior thread from Muffy: I’m almost done with my masters so I’m going to just finish it and teach college. I have a full teaching load for the fall and only my thesis left for my degree.
    Congrats. Now don’t indoctrinate those young minds. 🙂

  45. We are such a shallow people. As if looks could lead. 🙄

    The Titanic was an impressive looking ship. Just sayin…

  46. Hell, Biden couldn’t beat Sarah Palin in a debate

    Sarah held her own in that debate by not saying anything too stupid. Pretty low bar. Of course, she did call him O’Biden. She should have just stuck to calling him Joe.

    If today’s performance by Ryan proves anything it is what a pathetic joke Sarah Palin was and is.

  47. From the prior thread, Poolman, if Ron Paul doesn’t speak in prime time then it doesn’t matter. Same for Palin who’s trying to demand a prominent speaking spot.

  48. When Ryan says America promises equal opportunities, someone needs to ask him does America make good on that promise?

    Rutherford, life isn’t fair. No one can legislate it so that life is fair. No one can promise to make life fair. Grow the fuck up and join the rest of us at the adult table.

    Your Messiah sure didn’t make life fair. He Uncle Tom’d your ass and left you boys high and dry. He only started to care closer to the election. Ryan, nor any other person on this earth, can deliver on your desire to have life be equal for all.

  49. if Ron Paul doesn’t speak in prime time then it doesn’t matter.

    You haven’t been paying attention. ‘Prime Time’ is state approved propaganda, recently admitted in the NYT. That is basically the opposite of what Dr Paul represents.

  50. Tex Chiam-Ben Pesach (I’m trying to spell his name phonetically) from JTF.org is an a$$hole of the first order. This is the same a$$wipe posted by Noah a thread or two ago who called Obama a Muslim. In the video you posted, he throws around the word Nazi way too liberally and then refers to Condi as CONGOleeza Rice. So he’s a f*cking racist too.

    As I did with the video Noah posted, I stopped listening after “Congoleeza”.

    YOU AND NOAH have lost your ability to criticize ANYTHING posted by Poolman from here on out. Mr. Pesach is at least as repugnant as “Brother” Nathniel. They deserve to be exiled to the same island to live together miserably ever after. 👿

  51. Tex, Eddie Munster is kind of a cutie, but you are a mean old man with issues.

    Only when I need to be. Only when I need to be.

    You hags from the Left, hiding behind the anonymity of the internet, should be real careful about leaving a trail of your profound “beauty” when making target of someone’s appearance, Newton. Between your haggardly appearance, failure with men, and three axe handle butt cheeks, I rather enjoy sinking to “Juanita’s” level to kick her fat ass back to goon squad. 😈

    You tell that coward Juanita Jean, aka Susan DuQuesnay Bankston, if she’s willing to step out of the feckless bubble she maintains over at her equally worthless blog, I’ll prove not only is she hideous in appearance, but a mindless goon to boot.

  52. “Obviously self-reliance is a great virtue but what the liberal sees that the conservative fails to see is that there are systemic societal forces that interfere with self-reliance.” -R

    Rutherford, what are these systemic societal forces to which you refer? I am not aware of a society that is able to provide equal outcomes to it’s populace. What does the liberal offer that can overcome the juxtaposition?

    I don’t like seeing Karl Rove gaining power behind the scenes. What Citizens United has done is put him back in the catbird’s seat. He controls the coffers.

  53. YOU AND NOAH have lost your ability to criticize ANYTHING posted by Poolman from here on out. Mr. Pesach is at least as repugnant as “Brother” Nathniel. They deserve to be exiled to the same island to live together miserably ever after. 👿

    😆 I don’t know a damn thing about Mr. Pesach. I wasn’t even sure at first who you were referring to. I didn’t listen to 15 seconds of the video. 😆 I just grabbed the first thing I could find who called Ron Paul, Jew hater. Which is the only reason Tool idolizes the man.

    That was simply to gig Toolman™ about his Jew hatin. However, I’m really, really sorry that I’ve lost my ability. But until I regain “my ability”, you won’t mind if I keep making the effort.

  54. Raji,

    I don’t like seeing Karl Rove gaining power behind the scenes. What Citizens United has done is put him back in the catbird’s seat. He controls the coffers.

    But they (The Repubs) would be silly not to use Rove’s fund raising expertise. I’m not crazy about Rove, but he is the consummate Republican politician.

  55. Hey Newton. 😆 How about a little more Juanita Jean for real?

    What is that below her nose, hanging down to her chest? I see an oxygen tube, accompanied by what? A turkey wattle? With a mustache? And Juanita is making fun on Ryan’s appearance? Have you hags seen Ryan’s wife?

    Darling, you holes could reach for the stars and still fall short.

    I figured from Juanita’s blog, the least she could do is produce some humorous innuendo as introduction, but what I heard makes Fat Granny Helen profound. You loons are so pitiful, I can’t even bring myself to make fun of you anymore.

    Ought to forewarn Juanita to be a little more careful before opening her big mouth.

  56. Rutherford,

    I just read your update. 🙄 I know this is difficult for you to accept, but people are born with unequal talent.

    If you are really interested in “equal opportunity,” why don’t you step forward and be the first to demand an end to affirmative action then?

  57. First it’s the chickens now it’s the turkeys coming home to roost. Let’s get this beauty pageant out of the way.

  58. I’ve written about this at my place, but I will say this here: to Newt and her like, while you may think this is great news, the Obama campaign is actually shitting itself right now. Obama is attempting to throw the kitchen sink at Ryan and mis-define him as quickly as possible because Ryan – more than anyone else – can articulate the economy, the budget and the deficit. You may not want to admit it, but these things are very important to the American people and Obama is on the losing side of all of them.

    Careful what you laugh at, because it’s laughing right back at you.

  59. Muffy, what you are referring to as a cowlick is actually known as a widow’s peak. Yes, he is good looking, but so was and is Sarah Palin. Looks don’t win elections.
    Tex, Juanita must be about your age, are you saying you look like George Clooney?

  60. Newt, nice try. In my remark to you I was referring to this comment and I think you know why –

    Jo says:
    August 11, 2012 at 8:21 am

    Anyone notice his cowlick, made me think of Alfalfa from Little Rascals, think he can sing?

    My general remarks on Ryan’s looks were in direct response to the blog comments that you provided that dealt specifically with Ryan’s looks, which of course you know too.

    Why so sideways all the time, Newt? Just come straight on.

  61. “Thor, how about meeting in DC for Obama’s second inauguration?” – Newt

    Thanks for the invite, but no thanks. The only reason to go to DC is to see the sights and eat breakfast at Billy Goat’s. I imagine both will have day-long lines that week, no matter who wins.

  62. “The weekend talking head hump shows will have the weekend.” – Alfie

    I dunno. I would have announced on a Wed. or Thur. IMO, Monday morning water cooler talk, especially in the summer, is about what you did over the weekend, not news stories. Midweek makes more sense. But what do I know? (Now that’s what I call low hanging fruit. You’re welcome ET. 🙂 )

  63. “7748 feet elevation. You can drive to the top (most of the time), though it gets a bit hair-raising in a few spots.” Pools

    Was that where the “Fire in the Sky” abduction took place? Sounds like a great place to view them. Get your ass up there. 🙂

  64. “the Obama campaign is actually shitting itself right now.” – G

    Seriously? Nobody “shits” themselves over a VP pick except you guys. “Drill baby, drill!”

  65. Tex, Juanita must be about your age, are you saying you look like George Clooney?

    If Juanita Wattle is my age, I am George Clooney. Where do you nags dredge up these turkey fried fossils? Part Jabba the Hutt, part Foghorn Leghorn, part petrified fossil.

    Juanita Wattle: Gobble gobble gobble…

    Newton: Bark Bark Bark (flipper clap)

    One day Newt, you might learn that the best social programs for the poor are called JOBS….a three letter word according to the incomparably moronic Joe Biden, but the correct number as to how many jobs Owebama has produced – Joe’s. 😉

  66. Not for nothing but the attack on the “looks” of Susan Bankston seem kinda silly to me. She struck me as a typical middle aged woman. I’m not saying she’s foxy or anything but damn to read Tex’s description I expected a three-eyed ogre.

  67. I am not aware of a society that is able to provide equal outcomes to it’s populace.

    Raji, this misses the point. I did not say I expected nor desired equal outcomes. Differences in ability mean there cannot be equal outcomes. What I want are equal opportunities. As I stated in the piece, Ryan seems to think we have equal opportunity just cos he says we do. We don’t.

    Sadly, I have to commend Noah for his take on this. Noah has boldly and honestly expressed the conservative view, namely that sh*t happens, life is not fair, and there is no need to do a damn thing about it. Let those who are at a disadvantage through no fault of their own die. It’s survival of the fittest.

  68. If you are really interested in “equal opportunity,” why don’t you step forward and be the first to demand an end to affirmative action then?

    We’ve been down this road before. Affirmative action that ignores qualifications is wrong. Affirmative action that gives everyone the same starting place is perfectly right.

  69. Paul Ryan represent Obama’s most horrifying nightmare: math.

    Yup, from what I’ve heard Ryan’s math is a nightmare especially for the middle and lower class.

  70. You’re not saying she’s foxy or anything? 😆 😆 😆

    That nag looks like three day old roadkill. Bet she smells like it too.

    Juanita Wattle wants to refer to Ryan as Eddie Munster, yet I’m sure you find that really clever. So I decided to return the favor. Let’s pass a little judgment on Ms. Wattle’s “beauty” shop.

    What I found was Ms. Gobbles with an Obama pin. Fuck the Wattle, Rutherford. That probably excites you….

  71. the Obama campaign is actually shitting itself right now.

    You got an inside source for that Harry Reid? 😆

    Oh how the memory fails at times like these. G, you forgot the days when the GOP ran away from Ryan after version 1 of his roadmap? “Killing medicare as we know it” did not go down very well with anyone including conservatives.

    If Obama plays this right, Mitt just lost Florida.

    Be in denial all you want but today Mitt managed to please everyone. The conservatives now think Mitt has a spine and liberals will have a field day with Ryan’s Ayn Rand-inspired view of the world.

  72. Rutherford, we’ve also been down another road – your predilection for equal outcomes, as long as you are more equal. If the playing field were really leveled, every libbie land would look like South Chicago – a train wreck of gangland warfare, accompanied by Ho ing.

    We’ve spent about a gazillion trillion dollars on Taj Mahal schools on the backs of the paying American taxpayers (that rules most libs out) to ‘level’ the playing field, which were quickly turned into septic tanks by the liberal Gomorrah establishment. Dude, OWS was your ‘A’ team.

    You’re going to have to accept the fact that liberals are an inferior breed of evolution. The only way you can win is not on the field of ideas, but the field of Obama stash to buy votes. These last four years have been a 9.2 earthquake – we’re just waiting for the inevitable ObaBiden tsunami of Recovery Fall.

    Come on brother. Your super majority clowns couldn’t even construct a budget. I mean, how lame is that? Even many of the thieves are starting to figure out they’ve stole about all the treats from the cookie jar. Now they’re having to steal the jar.

  73. One day Newt, you might learn that the best social programs for the poor are called JOBS

    Ah yes and since 2010 your House of Reps has been so effective at creating lots of jobs.

  74. Tex I’d be the first to say commenting on Ryan’s looks betrays a total lack of analytical skill. It’s beyond juvenile. But damn you and Tigre come off like a couple of dumb frat boys when you try to return the favor.

  75. “Thor, and they drooled, their ears popped, and then snot ran out their noses…I remember.” – Newt

    LOL.

    And other unmentionables oozed out of them as well. When they found out she could shoot a pheasant … I seem to recall the phrase “I’d hit that!” bandied about. 12 gauge hard-ons. 😉

  76. But damn you and Tigre come off like a couple of dumb frat boys when you try to return the favor.

    Is this coming from the obsessed ‘left leaning’ blogger of the Palin children’s looks? 😈

    Man, I don’t mean to startle you with the obvious, but did you know you are completely blind to your Everest size hypocrisy, mountain?

    Today is no surprise. Ryan was a good choice for V.P., and the louder the turkeys gobble, the more threatening the selection. But it still doesn’t hurt to bring out the fryer for Juanita Wattle to start roasting for the big party come November.

    Bet she tastes like shit. 😀

  77. Before I retire for the night I had to share something that gives me a chuckle. As you can imagine I get lots of political junk e-mail … DSCC, Daily Kos, Obama campaign, etc. There is a recurring theme today calling Ryan a “radical” and an “extremist”. After years of hearing Newt Gingrich’s nutjob “Saul Alinksky radical” accusations it was an amusing change of pace to see this kind of rhetoric thrown back at the GOP.

    We all owe Mitt a major debt of gratitude. He has saved this race from being a total snooze-fest and he managed to do it with a credible VP pick, not with stunt casting from The Real Housewives of Wasilla. 🙂

    Bravo Mitt Romney!

  78. Ah yes and since 2010 your House of Reps has been so effective at creating lots of jobs.

    You still don’t get it. Nov. 2010 was simply to apply the brakes to prevent Hussein Magoo’s massive skid into the abyss.

  79. What an odd display of joy this is. You sound positively mopey, Rutherford. This isn’t what a field day looks like.

    You’re way off in tut tutting the responses to the mean girl tittering over Ryan’s looks. The concept if glass houses isn’t complicated. If the mirror isnt tour friend then don’t chuckle at other people’s reflections.

    I thought your piece was pretty good. Half classy and the other half some material to jaw about.

  80. Newt and Thor, please don’t forget this beauty from The National Review’s Rich Lowry:

    I’m sure I’m not the only male in America who, when Palin dropped her first wink, sat up a little straighter on the couch and said, “Hey, I think she just winked at me.” And her smile. By the end, when she clearly knew she was doing well, it was so sparkling it was almost mesmerizing. It sent little starbursts through the screen and ricocheting around the living rooms of America.

    😆 😆

    The biggest set-back for feminism in decades!

  81. “Ah yes and since 2010 your House of Reps has been so effective at creating lots of jobs.” – R

    Now, now R. Let’s not rush to judgment. Those job creators haven’t had time to bring the Republican’ts plan to full fruition. I mean, those stimulative tax cuts have only been at work for 134 months. The next 4 ought to finally do the trick. 🙂

  82. Sadly, I have to commend Noah for his take on this. Noah has boldly and honestly expressed the conservative view, namely that sh*t happens, life is not fair, and there is no need to do a damn thing about it. Let those who are at a disadvantage through no fault of their own die. It’s survival of the fittest.

    Now why do you make me do this? What I said is on here for everyone to see. Did you really think I was going to stand by while you twisted my words and misrepresented what I said? I said…

    Rutherford, life isn’t fair. No one can legislate it so that life is fair. No one can promise to make life fair. Grow the fuck up and join the rest of us at the adult table.

    Where in that did I say “there is no need to do a damn thing about it. Let those who are at a disadvantage through no fault of their own die. It’s survival of the fittest.”

    Is being a dishonest fuck the only way you can make a point, other than pointing the affirmative action finger at someone else?

    It’s an ideal. That is something I don’t expect you to have let alone understand so let me educate you. It is something to be strived for. The thing we wish we could have but we don’t abandon reality and we certainly don’t sell our children down the river to get it.

    Despite what this dishonest shit wrote, not every poor person, not even most poor people, are victims. Your counterparts in my town Rutherford, make life choices. They choose to drive a new car and live in a piece of shit house, in a piece of shit neighborhood, and by default make their kids go to substandard schools. They perpetuate their conditions by their actions, and you Leftist prey on them by offering welfare and other social programs which reinforces their bad choices by allowing them just enough to live off of to get by. Their children see this, because that is all they see, and do what mom and dad did. Are there exceptions. Sure. Are some victims? Absolutely. But to suggest as you do that this is the norm is a lie.

    I think the biggest issue I have with you Rutherford is our cultural differences. In mine, it is morally reprehensible to use those around us for our own ends. To willfully do it to your own kids, takes it to a whole new level.

  83. If the mirror isnt tour friend then don’t chuckle at other people’s reflections.

    I thought your piece was pretty good. Half classy and the other half some material to jaw about.

    Muffy, I just think we’re talking apples and oranges a bit here. A dumb remark about what most of us agree is a very fit, vibrant and reasonably good looking guy vs a couple of guys gloating about a very typical, average looking middle aged woman. I get your glass houses bit, but it seemed to me a bit over the edge and awfully frat boy.

    I came away with two positives today. First, from a personality POV, I liked Ryan. His joy at being picked was infectious. His speech, almost like that of a co-president, not a VP, was commanding. (His anti-deficit bona-fides are already being rightfully challenged but I’ll hit that another day,)

    The second positive was Mitt’s introduction of Ryan. I got the feeling that Mitt genuinely admires this man. There was almost a paternal pride in Romney’s voice. I believe them as a working pair. Didn’t look like a put-on to me whatsoever.

    What I think I found most fascinating today was that here were two very decent men who are profoundly wrong about how to right the ship.

  84. Hey remember 8 years ago when Kerry announced his pick for veep? Yeah boy, Mr. Wonderful busy making a sex tape while his wife was holding large hunks of hair in her hands and crying onto her pillow.

  85. “What I think I found most fascinating today was that here were two very decent men who are profoundly wrong about how to right the ship.” – R

    Did anyone ask Ryan if he thought Romney should release his tax returns? I bet it’s coming. 🙂

  86. I mean, those stimulative tax cuts have only been at work for 134 months. The next 4 ought to finally do the trick.

    October 2006/2007 – unemployment, 4.4-4.6%.

    Are libs memories that bad? Or are they simply this monumentally stupid?

    I know to vote liberal means to either be totally dependent on government teat, or profiteering on the backs of those beholden to the government teat, but I never realized how dishonest these Libs really were until I started meeting up with the Thors of the world.

    Like I said, gang. We can win the election. But if you want to restore America, you’re going to have to formulate a plan with me to cut the millstone from our necks and let liberals rot – it won’t be pretty, but neither was D-Day.

    And Newton and Thor are small parts of a massive boulder.

  87. Rutherford, you were just sure Obama was the man to right the ship.

    Uh, we’re taking an water awfully quickly with Captain Ahab at the helm, still hunting the Great White Man Whale.

  88. So Rutherford. Why don’t you give us your plan to “right the ship?”

    Prove to me you something more than a shriveled set of nerts and give us your plan of action? 😀

    More Solyndra, perhaps?

  89. Obviously self-reliance is a great virtue but what the liberal sees that the conservative fails to see is that there are systemic societal forces that interfere with self-reliance. There are many no-opportunity-zones in this country where there is little hope of escaping poverty.

    This statement really pissed me off in many ways and served yet again to highlight how R and I could not make it as friends in the real world.
    Perhaps Rutherford is well aware of the many points that lives in the truth that makes his comment absurd but was forced to go the brevity route.
    Just in case he is not lets give him and others some headlines:

    1.The “War on Poverty” has been a proportional fail* and has in fact morphed into a killing net more than a safety net.
    2.Surprise surprise America has a clearly defined underclass. This is a level far different than the typical lower classes which includes the working poor. The underclass is very much more a state of mind & will than it is a state of wallet.**
    3.Economic opportunity abounds. Don’t snicker! In America it is the measure thereof that seems to be an issue between conservatives and liberals as well as the need for a solution of this.
    Just as America fails to realize its alleged 99% is still something like the worlds .5%-1% we fail to acknowledge that economic measures have a scale that can’t be forced. That one has an automobile,an apartment and the ability to put food on the table is not something to sneeze at. That ones car is not a Mercedes,the apartment not a mansion and the food perhaps more Kraft box than foie gras shouldn’t be something to hop on a soap box about.
    4. Americas poor have the opportunity to, at a minimum be less poor. This kind of thinking gets scoffed at by the arrogant leftists but it doesn’t make it any less true.

    What the conservative sees and the liberal fails to take note is this. When you try to hand people a life on a silver platter there is never enough and all too often someone will steal the platter and take it to the pawnbroker.

    (ps if anyone noted and cares the * and ** have a lot behind them,feel free to ask if you want. I had to go the brevity route too)

  90. @poolman:

    You haven’t been paying attention. ‘Prime Time’ is state approved propaganda, recently admitted in the NYT. That is basically the opposite of what Dr Paul represents.

    I’m having trouble connecting the dots on that one. Prime time podium time is exactly why the Paulites tried the caucus raid thing.

  91. R #121
    Ah yes and since 2010 your House of Reps has been so effective at creating lots of jobs.
    Speaking for myself I don’t have House members of the (R) persuasion but more importantly….I’m not a Keynesian and I don’t think government creates jobs so…..what’s the point again????

  92. “What I think I found most fascinating today was that here were two very decent men who are profoundly wrong about how to right the ship.” – R

    Rutherford, please elaborate on the above statement. Are you saying Obama and team know how to right the ship? Obama had his chance and miserably failed. I don’t know that R&R can right the ship either (hopefully it’s not a lost cause) but someone has to try and I don’t think Obama is capable at this point. Maybe if he hadn’t spent the past four years campaigning for the next four we might have gotten an inkling of his plan whatever it is.

  93. @ thorsaurus 107
    Yes this is kind of my point. Now till September belongs to the humps and most folks won’t be picking up on the R&R chatter. Come Labor Day though the subliminal prattle will have accumulated the “Comeback Team” has been on tour working hard for America. The names will be in folks heads but undefined as yet.Then R&R will launch something else.
    Of course I’ll be shocked if around Labor Day your guys don’t tick it up a notch using kind of the same thinking. Summer ending Labor Day, class divisions,Bain,labor,Bain…. you get it?
    Hell maybe I don’t know what I’m talking about but it sounds like a strategy,a pattern and a few other things too.

  94. Our computer is back for awhile.

    Rutherford, you wrote that four years ago no one could have imagined that we would be in such bad shape as we are now. I did. Look at the H&M archives.

    Some liberals and I argue politics via e mail, and two asked why I was such a downer Obviously happy times were here again. I wasn’t the only one. Many of the people who post here had the same thoughts.

    You might think about that and wonder why your side was so wrong and ours was right. Was it a fluke, or did we understand something you didn’t?

  95. I agree with what Alfie said in #141

    The concept of “poor” in this country is a “First World” problem compared to the real meaning of the word poor in the third world.

  96. Nice Deb has an article titled “Sigh; Watch Sadly vacuous women outside the OBama/ Fluke Rally get interviewed.”

    I don’t know who conducted the poll I heard about on the news this morning. It showed that nearly half of the population believes Obama’s programs have worked or will if given more time.

    Independents surveyed were about evenly divided.

    Both of these support my writhing that many people support the Democratic world view from ignorance or stupidity. If people understand and support the statism model, more power to them.They understand what they believe. I am referring to clueless wonders who would flunke a Jay Leno Jay Walking test.

  97. R opined: “We’ve been down this road before. Affirmative action that ignores qualifications is wrong. Affirmative action that gives everyone the same starting place is perfectly right.”

    That’s not affirmative action. That’s a meritocracy. Affirmative action means giving people a leg up over OTHER, MORE DESERVING PEOPLE – based on skin color. It has done as much damage to the fabric of America as did prior discrimination – maybe more.

    If you switched skin colors, it would be illegal. Why is that any different?

  98. Without getting personal, I also agree with 141.

    Yes, forces interfere with self-reliance. A self reliant person finds a way to circumvent them. Or if all else fails, he/she moves. Our country is filled with self reliant people who came hear to make better lives for themselves. That also includes illegals.

    Someone, (Ann Coulter?) said these two men have the best hair since Kerry and Roberts.

  99. Obama is an affirmative action president. One could argue that men like W also got their jobs through a different sort of affirmative action.

    Race based affirmative action has served its purpose. If it is to continue, it should be geographically or class based. True affirmative action sometimes places people above their zones of incompitence.

  100. I’m having trouble connecting the dots on that one. Prime time podium time is exactly why the Paulites tried the caucus raid thing.

    The caucus raid thing? Are you referring to them being marginalized and overruled while they followed the rules? I was referring to the way speech was government filtered before being disseminated.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/16/us/politics/latest-word-on-the-campaign-trail-i-take-it-back.html?_r=1

    It’s all about control. Of course, we are busily working on a pre-filtering system, with the military perched on the forefront, as usual. Our ‘supported’ troops are still the preferred guinea pigs of government. Orwellian. As is the case with every known government, it isn’t content until it controls every human interaction, which is the opposite of liberty and freedom…

  101. Do you remember when I told you about Hamburg, Iowa which saved itself from the flood and now must save itself from our government?

    I googled and found “Hamburg Huge Levee crumbles caught on camera June 13 2011.

    ” Save Our Levee!” or something like it shows what I decided is more amature performance art than flash mob to raise money for Hamburg. It does show Heartlanders in their natural environment. They are tax payers who give the government money to run our lives. Obama has shown he doesn’t like this sort of people.

  102. “Hamburg has Hours to Evacuate After Levee Breach” You tube video It is a KETV news broadcast before the new dike was built. A woman interviewed said the government had given them no help, not even information.

    These are people who’s ancestors moved mostly from Germany to create their own opportunities

    Back to 141. Self reliant people are independent, not domesticated victims the corrupt Democratic system created in New Orleans. A Bismark, ND writer, also in the flood noted the difference. None of us sat on our roofs with signs begging the government to “Help Us.”

    Few heard of this flood which had more impact and produced more water than Hurricane Irene in New England because little exciting happens in fly over country, and besides we bitter clingers have little in common with the press who tell us what is real.

  103. I believe in employment, nothing is as character building as that first paid job as a teenager, but I am a realist. While some of you live in regions unaffected by unemployment, so you don’t see the same set of facts as others of us, we who in live areas with massive layoffs. So it is easy for you to get all high and mighty over other people’s work ethic, I and other’s like myself, not only have compassion for those who are out of work, but we are protective of the many low wage workers, those who live on the edge, without benefits. I have been fortunate, I live the good life, nice house, quality food, excellent healthcare. Do I deserve it? Damn right I do! But that doesn’t make me think, I am any better than any family struggling; wife with two jobs, dad on unemployment, wondering if they can stay in their house, feed their children, or get medicine for their asthmatic two-year-old, send their teen to college, or take time off to be with a sick parent. Do some of you even have any idea, how uncaring you sound? How Unchristian?
    Muffy, have you ever heard of satire? It is a form of humor. And yes, it was very cleverly done, by simply, in the title of the piece naming a television/film character with a exaggerated feature, she associated Paul Ryan with that character. Was she making fun of him for having a widow’s peak? I personally think, she brought the reader to realize how young Mr. Ryan looks and to question, is he old enough. You think whatever you want to think, you will anyway, but if you ever attempt to make me apologize for my sense of humor again, I will respectfully tell you to fuck off. Got it?
    If any of you like satire, be sure to see “The Campaign.” Hilarious!

  104. Sorry to inflict another video no one will watch. It is “Blencoe Residents Race to Build Berm” on youtube video. It is another story from KETV Omaha and features a town near us.

    All of these illustrate the old traditions of self reliance which is dying in many places.

    My wife and I lived on the edge for ten years during the farm depression, and we watched neighbors lose their homes and farms. It was so bad our son’s class invented their own “No Child Left Behind” class. They recognized the value of education and promised themselves that they all would make it or none would.

    Three churches are now operating a food bank which gained a lot of business during the flood and later with the down turn. Our territory is over fifty miles long now and keeps growing.

    Unemployment and underemployment are tragedies, but it does little good to cry about them. One must ask why they exist and determine a way to improve the economy.

    Progressives are in part, responsible for the down turn as Stanly Kurts and others have shown. Why do we think rehiring failures will make it better this time? Our government is creating a society of victims feel they are unable to help themselves.

    Christianity has nothing to do with it. Reality does.

  105. Newt, spare us your sanctimony. The comments here relate to the outcomes and indoctrination into the failed system you confuse with “compassion,” and the justifications for perpetuating like you’ve just offered. The generations of dependency you and your party want epitomize lack of compassion. There is nothing charitable about creating the system of dependency that robs the soul and the left exploits for political power. Grow up.

    As for the trials and tribulations you think some here haven’t experienced, you can be forgiven for not knowing about some of the personal past situations of those that frequent this board since you’re new, but you cant be forgiven for assuming they don’t exist. I suggest you shut the fuck up until you know what you;re talking about until you share whatever life experiences you have had that trump the folks you wag your finger at. Got it?

    Incidentally, it is not satire. It’s just mean spirited ridicule. The same that was handed back. Reference to Chris Farley with a wig is no different than hers to Eddie Munster. Interesting you can’t see the humor in it when it’s directed to one of yours.

    Just kidding. It’s typical.

  106. ”Got it?”

    Why yes, I believe I do. It’s one of the few straightforward remarks I think you’ve made here. I noticed your comments this morning are rather forthright as well. Love it.

    If I tell you to apologize for your sense of humor again, you will tell me to fuck off. Got it. Tell you what, point me to the comment where I did that and I’ll retract that sucker right now. No one should have to apologize for their sense of humor around here. That includes the frat boys getting the ruler across their knuckles last night by Sister Mary Rutherford.

    I must correct your impression that I cared for an apology about your sense of humor though. I’m pretty sure that I care for no such thing. My replies were an attempt to stoop to the level of superficiality that I witnessed over at the beauty parlor that you linked to here.

    Yes, I know what satire is. Juanita Jean ain’t it.

    ”And yes, it was very cleverly done.”

    OK. To each his own. But don’t confuse reviewing satire with not getting it or being offended by it. I do (get it) and I’m not (offended). So if you’re going to link to superficial filler while you study up on your soulful case about why you’re so very thrilled with Romney’s pick, I can wait. I was just a little restless yesterday thinking that the left must have something more than a healthy head of hair and a lazy retread of Newt’s failed competitive moves during the primary to lay on me. Your lecture on compassion this morning moved things in the right direction on that front, complete with your judgment on how uncaring and unchristian some of us sound. That gives us something to talk about, even if it’s nothing new. Please don’t cry about it when we tell you to shove your idea of what a “good Christian” is though. It’s probably going to happen.

    Back to the funny. I’m hearing something other than joy from the left. Everywhere. Just smirking assurances that the left is very happy with the Romney’s choice. I turned on George Stephanopoulos a little while ago to regard a sea of faces that looked like they’d been served a plate of lemons in the green room. Peggy Noonan was the only one with anything to say and she was brilliant.

    You people  are still talking about Romney’s taxes. Now THAT’S funny, sister.

    Think he’s waiting for the case to be made by the boy wonder about tax reform? You don’t like all these loopholes? Here’s what Mitt’s taxes would look like if we did it your way and here’s what it would look like if we did it our way. Which one nets the IRS more from old Mitt? Would be interesting and only then would it also be a worthwhile discussion of tax reform and not just a class issue.

    Now in all sincerity I really must thank you for providing me with an opportunity to apologize to the group for my temper and bad language yesterday. I have no excuse so I offer none. But if poolman tries to menace me again over some tiny little detail about myself that I’ve shared here, I will tell him to fuck off again.

    What I would like to apologize to you specifically for, Miss Newt, is not being very nice to you. If that makes you not want to hang out here then I’m truly sorry and will guard against that sort of thing moving forward.

    More thanks also for opening the door for me to mention to those that I like here at RL’s why I tend toward not sharing personal information. Poolman is a Fat Grannies baby through and through and I know that and I never forget that and rarely let my guard down with him around. Those people are nasty.

    Truce Newt?

  107. “So it is easy for you to get all high and mighty over other people’s work ethic,”-Newt

    Ah Newt, I am not too sure you really know the true plight of the unemployed and the self reliance some can portray. I think James has a good idea of which I speak. You would call many in my community poor and struggling but they manage to have food on the table, a warm roof over their head and the basic necessities because they are self reliant. In good times they are barn builders, in bad times they trim trees after storms and sell firewood. They hunt and fish and grow their own vegetables. They look after their neighbors and their own.

    Some of the current unemployed struggling to make ends meet helped themselves get in that situation. There is poor and then there is beyond poor. If you make 100K and your liabilities exceed your assets, you are POOR. If you lose that 100K job then you are beyond poor.

    James commented on the fact that illegals are more self reliant than many of us as they can’t rely on largesse. Sorry if this sounds uncaring to you but I’m surrounded by people who care and who are more Christian than those who rise up on Sunday.

    As I said earlier in a comment, Poor in this country is a First World problem.

  108. First off mean spirited ridicule is when someone, goes on and on about someone fat ass, no one when on and on about Ryan having a widow’s peak. No need. When in two words, “Eddie Munster,” they create a lasting image of a wide-eyed naive youngster, now that’s talent.
    Tigre, like James, you need to read or reread the Gospels, pay particular attention to the parts printed in red.

  109. Raji, you tell me, how does one grow a garden on a public sidewalk or a paved street. Or how one can trap or shoot a squirrel when there are no trees, therefore no squirrels. Apples and oranges, friend.

  110. Since I am not a religious man, why don’t you direct me to them? I trust you are smart enough to apply them to yourself before lecturing us first. Got it?

    Again, just kidding.

    (p.s. I didn’t realize the Eddie Munster comment was a compliment. Thanks for setting it right. I would’ve applied context to the comment from that fat ass otherwise).

    Muffy, you’re too generous with Newt. She’s owed no apologies. To play one can’t be aggressor and victim at the same time.

  111. Petro dollars, fiat currencies, fractional banking, toxic assets, hedging and speculating, bank bailouts, the massive LIBOR scam, Ponzi schemes, and all the other forms of theft taking place are the voodoo economics that have enslaved us and our next generations collectively with debt. A continuous mounting debt that won’t easily die. Surviving this zombie apocalypse may require perseverance and ingenuity.

    Or out-and-out revolt.

    Some offer compromise, proposing the ‘if you can’t beat them, join them’ meme. Business is business. This ideology still leaves the corrupt system intact and further divides the classes. It benefits the few and continues to suppress the rest. It’s a part of that fog we call the ‘American Dream’. Consumerism on steroids.

    😈 Capitalism über alles.

  112. Muffy, you have ALWAYS been the one to start the stone throwing. That has been the case in evidence since our very first encounter. You ALWAYS get your panties in a bunch when I pick them up and throw them back. I’m glad you’re confident you have me pegged. 🙄

  113. Actually I would consider the comment, “Chris Farley with a wig,” to be satire, just so that is clear. Going on and on about how someone looks, smells, sounds, etc is not satire.
    Muffy, my purpose of being here, other than killing time, is to contrast the differing dichotomies represented in this country, urban, suburban, small town, and rural. We should never forget that life presents different challenges depending where one lives, our financial circumstances, or educational backgrounds. Our experiences obviously have a influence on our opinions, and while we may never agree, we at least understand where the other party is coming from. Thank you for your apology, although it was unnecessary, it was a honest reflection of how you felt at the moment. No doubt we will bump heads again, I think we are both strong opinionated women, and I will be the first to admit, I can be flippant.

  114. Rutherford, are you still watching “Newsroom”? I have two waiting for me to watch, and of course, tonight a new episode. I am not motivate to watch anymore, I just don’t care to watch repeatedly disaster after disaster for the sake of art and entertainment and the characters’ personal lives didn’t take hold with me, so thats that. I’m done, good scripts, good actors, good writing, but too soon….

  115. Tigre, “Muffy, you’re too generous with Newt. She’s owed no apologies. To play one can’t be aggressor and victim at the same time,” it is not a duel.

  116. While some of you live in regions unaffected by unemployment,

    Michigan baby! Not only Michigan, but 7 miles from the highest unemployment city in the nation for 10 months.

  117. The election is a contest of two ideologies. One at the human level represents the people I described.

    The other is the dependency model represented famously by people in New Orleans. I’ve been to New Orleans, and I like the people, but a number of refugees from their flood still live in Omaha. They say the economic and political culture is superior to the city they left.

    Unfortunate people do need help, and sometimes the government is the only entity which can do the job. However, the ultimate responsibilty rests on individuals, not the government.

    Poor black people in North Omaha got permission to start a community garden on a vacant lot. A few people have made gardens on city roofs. Five gallon pails will not feed a family, but they will raise food. Some truck farmers near Omaha have begun to sell food at cut rates in the inner city.

    If all else fails, you move.It is easier said than done, but our country is full of people who have moved from intolerable conditions. As I wrote before, illegals, whether they are from Ireland or Mexico reflect our old values better than many native Americans.

    Newt, no disrespect intended, but I don’t “need” to read anything in the Bible any more than you “need” to read a text book on simple economics. On the other hand….

    Success and happiness are guaranteed to no one. No matter how hard you work, bad luck can take you down. That’s life.

  118. James, following Christ’s teaching has everything to do with it. Do some of you even have any idea, how uncaring you sound? How Unchristian?

    Newt, show me the Christian value where making someone dependent is considered a good thing. If you cannot then your argument has no merit and is dismissed. My Bible says teach a man to fish, not give him a fish.

  119. Correction: One need only look at my neighborhood. A black community nearing 50% unemployment. Social programs hardly a safety net. More a way of life.

  120. Tigre: I agree that social programs should never be a way of life. But how do you get from what you describe to the safety net? Serious question and I’ve never been able to resolve it. Thank you.

  121. Thanks Tigre, back at you! And Newt – glad we’re good. I would rather the comments here be as unfiltered as we can stand.

    “Muffy, you have ALWAYS been the one to start the stone throwing. That has been the case in evidence since our very first encounter. You ALWAYS get your panties in a bunch when I pick them up and throw them back. I’m glad you’re confident you have me pegged.”

    Deep breath.

    Poolman. I will stop engaging with you. It’s exhausting and counter-productive to have to relearn the best ways to avoid and respond to attention seeking behavior in a child. The dynamic is not unfamiliar to me and the negative attention which feels so natural to give is precisely the wrong thing to do. It’s also like trying to converse with a jellyfish when all I really just want to get as far away from you as I can.

    My final remark to you is that I most certainly do have you figured out, but it’s you who has pegged yourself.

    I’m turning this page.

    ~

    To the rest of the gang – you were saying….

  122. Tigre: I agree that social programs should never be a way of life. But how do you get from what you describe to the safety net?

    By keeping the part Obama gutted.

  123. Correction: One need only look at my neighborhood. A black community nearing 50% unemployment. Social programs hardly a safety net. More a way of life.
    Wow! I don’t know where you live, but you leave the impression that there are a lot of jobs just waiting for people to fill them. Is that the case?

  124. Sorry I forgot quotation marks on “Correction: One need only look at my neighborhood. A black community nearing 50% unemployment. Social programs hardly a safety net. More a way of life.”

  125. Poolman. I will stop engaging with you.

    Oh boy! Notated. Now I can proceed down this alley without getting mugged. LOL. Though I won’t hold my breath.

  126. One of the more delightful quotes from the Sunday morning roundup (there have been many but nobody does it better than Dodgeball Debbie).

    ”This issue raised by Harry Reid was not raised by Harry Reid.” –DWS

    PS…I know, I know. That isn’t what she meant.

  127. No Newt, what you are unable to comprehend, or are purposefully ignoring, is that welfare allows people to continue down a path of making bad choices. It is often harder to do what is right than it is to do what you would rather be doing. Welfare allows you to continue to do whats easy and survive.

  128. I already linked this info in 20, but of course, not a peep. Guess I’ll have to put it right here in front of your faces.
    Us Conference of Catholic Bishops: (Catholic bishops are still kind of experts on Christian theology, correct?)

    “On April 4, Bishop Blaire cautioned that “at a time when the need for assistance from [affordable housing] programs is growing, cutting funds for them could cause thousands of individuals and families to lose their housing and worsen the hardship of thousands more in need of affordable housing.” He also reminded Congress that the Catholic community is one of the largest private, nonprofit providers of affordable housing in the country and is deeply involved in meeting the health housing and nutrition needs of families across the nation.

    Bishops Blaire and Pates reaffirmed the “moral criteria to guide these difficult budget decisions” outlined in their March 6 budget letter:

    1.Every budget decision should be assessed by whether it protects or threatens human life and dignity.

    2.A central moral measure of any budget proposal is how it affects “the least of these” (Matthew 25). The needs of those who are hungry and homeless, without work or in poverty should come first.

    3.Government and other institutions have a shared responsibility to promote the common good of all, especially ordinary workers and families who struggle to live in dignity in difficult economic times…”

  129. “Catholic bishops are still kind of experts on Christian theology, correct?”

    I think Catholic bishops are experts on Catholic theology, specifically Roman Catholic theology, Thor.

    In any case, what’s your point?

  130. Hard on who Nagic, the people who are going to starve to death, freeze to death, die on the hospital steps or you? “No Newt, what you are unable to comprehend, or are purposefully ignoring, is that welfare allows people to continue down a path of making bad choices. It is often harder to do what is right than it is to do what you would rather be doing. Welfare allows you to continue to do whats easy and survive.”
    Yes we can agree, people need to work for their keep, but when there are no jobs, the people, through their government, need to protect them. This also relates to Thor’s posting #189. First let us deal with the emergency, then let us actively work to develop manufacturing jobs and training, which should lead to other businesses and jobs. You cannot just leave people out on a iceberg and tell them to stay warm or park them in a desert and say, feed yourself, because if you lift a finger to help them would make them dependent forever. That’s bullshit! And don’t tell me the 1% is going to do it, create jobs, because them haven’t. It is going to be some upstarts from the middle class, with great ideas, but no cash, who are going create jobs. And if they need government backing and/or financing to create those jobs, so be it.

  131. thor 189 I did not see your earlier reference. Speaking only for myself….
    I don’t give a flying fuck what the Catholic church and any of its henchmen shitbags have to say about anything.A more misguided bunch of men I doubt one could find.
    I don’t bring God or morality to my politics. They do not live in the same zip code for me. I no more have a problem dropping a nuclear bomb on a heavily populated civilian area than I do deciding what to put on a hot dog. That is not hyperbole it is reality. Any political decision I make I do not use anything resembling a moral prism to view it. I do not share the opinion held by other conservatives that me or my nation live for domestic or international evangelicalism.

  132. “More thanks also for opening the door for me to mention to those that I like here at RL’s why I tend toward not sharing personal information.” Muffy

    Interesting. When Pools uses personal info you find it reprehensible, but when I informed R that I would no longer read a certain panel member’s stuff because he lied and distorted personal information about me and my family and then went total Vogon on me with the intent to hurt me personally (Nagic won’t allow me to say his name), no condemnation was forthcoming from you. In fact, I recall you calling me a “buzzkill” because of my unilateral ceasefire. Fine. Your choice. But it makes this comment by you ring hollow.

    BTW, I’m not picking a fight with you. I find you one of the more insightful panel members, even though our politics are far apart. Just wondering what the basis is for the difference, IYO.

  133. I agree with number three in 189. Catholic bishops carry little moral weight with me, because i am not a Catholic ” I agree with keeping people alive long enough to get them to a better future.”

    As I wrote before, this election is a conflict between two ideologies. Neither is perfect, but the people with attitudes and values represented by Blencoe and Hamburg, Iowa are superior to the alternative.

    Obama has had nearly four years to influence our nation with his ideological beliefs, and he has failed. It is time for a change. We deserve what we get if we re elect him.

    One simple way to create jobs has been used in Africa and other undeveloped nations. Organizations provide micro- loans to people with workable business ideas. Another charity provides livestock to families. They use some of the animals’ offspring to seed their neighbors’ herds.

  134. newt you will get no truce or quarter from me and my civility has caught the last bus out of town so here it goes.
    You are one of the stupidest and or most dishonest people I have met on the net in some time,and I’ve met some doozies.

    It is YOUR party that created the Corbusier nightmares throughout the West.From France to Britain to Colombia Point to Cabrini Green it is the Left that has always looked for ways to stack the poor in the name of the common good. You Orwellian fucks warehouse people and then count yourself noble whence you tally the masses you’ve helped.
    You also echo the manufacturing dilemma in the USA heard so often from the Left. No doubt you also drink the leftist Kool Aid about outsourcing and offshoring. Here too you prove to be the useful idiot to the propaganda masters of your party.The USA has lost more jobs to mechanization than Mumbai. It has lost more jobs due to increases in productivity than anything happening in the Pearl City Delta. The third & fourth waves that have damaged US manufacturing are traceable to you and yours though. #3 being the the overreach of certain unions and certain local politicians.I’d lump in the regulatory insanity that grew like kudzu out of some of the better ideas in our collective history. #4 is based on the mamby pamby my kid must go to college crowd. To be fair you personally may not be of that group but those you vote for and gobble on sure do.All across America manufacturers bemoan the lack of interested or qualified people. Moving at the speed of government since the days of Reagan has failed to be in the right place at the right time with job training. This is because such centralized roads to serfdom NEVER work and especially not now in the 21st Century.
    I’ll close saying I look forward to your future comments. The rage they release in me is very therapeutic.Thank You!

  135. @ Emily 180…
    The net isn’t about safety or service anymore so there’s step one.

    Localization is a good idea. Just like the better charities get on the ground yourself. Bureaucratic leviathans kind of can’t swing that.

    Have strict rules and guidelines and although I personally loathe the policy in many of its forms but zero tolerance is a good idea here. (ex.public housing + felony=hit the bricks…Next!).
    For the folks that like the Bible stuff go the teach ’em to fish route for sure but….one has to go where the fish are too.People on the dole be it welfare or unemployment in America need to renew the prior practice of migration. Blacks and veterans did it en masse post WWII. Agricultural to manufacturing shifts proof of it too.
    Know you didn’t ask but thought I’d offer an opinion just the same

  136. Thor –

    The difference is that you were trying to tell me what to think about the spat – primarily that you didn’t start it. I told you I didn’t care, and that I saw what happened and knew what I thought about it.

    I don’t care if you think I started it with poolman or not. I’m telling you (all) where I’m coming from. I’m coming from “fuck off, poolman.” I’m not looking for advocates or asking for sympathy, just sorry that I aired that little missive. I don’t need help with poolman. Engagement with him is a bad idea on my part.

    Sometimes I feel it’s unfair and selfish not to be more open with people that I like and trust when they share freely with me, and I suppose I felt that it required at least one explanation.

    Make sense?

    As to the subject of condemning Tex – not going to happen. Ever. To scold – that’s his wife’s glower to throw. If he keeps being bad, it’s her prerogative to discuss it with him in private. I would never embarrass him in public like that. If you were as sensitive to his feelings as you would like him to be about yours, you’d know exactly why that is.

    That doesn’t mean I do the same for others.

  137. Noah I confess to putting words in your mouth but when you tell me life is unfair and then you leave a huge void after that as to what if anything we do about the unfairness, I need to fill in the gap.

    So are you now saying that you DO believe we should try to even the playing field for those who are disadvantaged through no fault of their own?

  138. In any case, what’s your point?- Muffy

    When Newt pointed out correctly that some of the Christians here didn’t sound very Christian in there discussion of entitlements and budgets, she was basically told she didn’t know what she was talking about. I think the statement from the Catholic Bishops backed her argument up. (You’re not saying Catholics aren’t Christians, are you?) Either Pools has you so upset you’re off your game, or you’re just playing with me. I hope it’s the latter. I don’t want to have to renig on the “insightful” thingy. 🙂

    “Do some of you even have any idea, how uncaring you sound? How Unchristian?” – Newt

    “Christianity has nothing to do with it. Reality does.” – James

    “Newt, spare us your sanctimony. The comments here relate to the outcomes and indoctrination into the failed system you confuse with “compassion,” and the justifications for perpetuating like you’ve just offered.” – ET

    “Newt, show me the Christian value where making someone dependent is considered a good thing. If you cannot then your argument has no merit and is dismissed. My Bible says teach a man to fish, not give him a fish.” – Nagic

  139. Why don’t you give us your plan to “right the ship?”

    You obviously didn’t read the five points I made to Noah in the last thread which I don’t feel like digging up again.

    Off the top of my head — reform the tax code, stimulate job growth with job training programs that include placement (especially in the inner city), make offshore outsourcing financially disadvantageous to large corporations, make the Federal Reserve accountable via audit or other means, tax the rich NOT to pay off the deficit but to fund education and infrastructure projects.

    That probably doesn’t completely match the list I gave Noah but combine them and you’ve got a good start.

    And I hate to let you in on this but the deficit is not our most pressing problem. Jobs are. (I just heard today Ryan’s plan will not give us a budget surplus until 2040.)

  140. Hey, remember 12 years ago when Dick Cheney picked George Bush to be his V.P. 😉

    While Ryan is no Cheney, I do wonder if history may be repeating itself to some degree. As I said earlier in the thread, Ryan’s speech came across almost as co-President, not Vice President.

  141. I believe in God and that Jesus is my savior, other than that I have as little to do with organized Christianity as possible.I’ve read the Bible, but I don’t rely on it as a guide for my behavior or beliefs. I live by what I see and what my parents taught me.

    I donate to our church, serve on the board, and we help with the food bank.I may attend church for a funeral.

    Therefore to use me as an example of Christian hypocacy is an error.

  142. Hey remember 8 years ago when Kerry announced his pick for veep? Yeah boy, Mr. Wonderful busy making a sex tape while his wife was holding large hunks of hair in her hands and crying onto her pillow.

    G, Muffy’s comment would be “classic” if she got her chronology right. Mr. Wonderful’s nasty activity occurred while HE was running for President in 2008, not in 2004.

    And I might add, although this will piss off all the “cancer victims are all angels” contingent, Elizabeth Edwards was a beeyotch on wheels. She used every opportunity to humiliate her husband in public. She often made fun of his lower class upbringing. As a political wife, she was difficult and often a shrew.

    Does that mean he should’ve cheated on her? Of course not. Does that mean they deserved each other …. damn straight Skippy.

  143. Now, the link you provided @ #20 and referred to this morning…

    I really don’t understand your point and Newt’s assist is still to rounded for me to know what you’d like for me (or anyone else) to do with the information you provided. Except to state the obvious that the separation of church and state isn’t a toggle you can turn on and off when it’s convenient. Given that, I ask again – what is your point?

    I also read some noteworthy responses on Ryan’s part made last April, to the letter that was signed one ONE priest when it was presented to be a document signed by some 59 priests and theologians. Further poking revealed a whoohoo priest of the sort that I’m all too familiar with. About 1 in 10 is like that guy.

    Now I haven’t looked to deeply into this Franciscan Action Network, but I did come across another letter they signed which was also signed by MoveOn.org. So I’m tempted to dismiss the piece associated with the source unless you can give me a finer point to focus on.

  144. Rutherford, I’m waiting for the Biden-Ryan debate. Sarah Palin gave a good account or herself in 2008, but this should be like the Russian v the Italian rhythmatic gymnastics contest at the Olympics.

  145. “When Newt pointed out correctly that some of the Christians here didn’t sound very Christian in there discussion of entitlements and budgets, she was basically told she didn’t know what she was talking about. I think the statement from the Catholic Bishops backed her argument up. (You’re not saying Catholics aren’t Christians, are you?) Either Pools has you so upset you’re off your game, or you’re just playing with me. I hope it’s the latter. I don’t want to have to renig on the “insightful” thingy.”

    Ah. We passed in cyberspace.

    I don’t know Newt well enough to know what she thinks a Christian is supposed to sound like or if she knows what she’s talking about. Some people equate “good” Christian with “gentlemanly” and I would say they are wrong.

    “(You’re not saying Catholics aren’t Christians, are you?) Either Pools has you so upset you’re off your game, or you’re just playing with me. I hope it’s the latter. I don’t want to have to renig on the “insightful” thingy.”

    I’ve stated here before but you may have missed it – some of them are. Some aren’t.

    I’m not upset. Just a little annoyed that I’ve created a bit of a scene but I’ll get over it. As long as the really worthy comments aren’t getting too submerged in the morass. Not playing with you either. And don’t second guess your very insightful assessment thingy.

  146. Glad to help Alfie, just as long as you feel better, that’s all that counts.
    Nagic, “Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime,” isn’t in the Bible, it is a Chinese Proverb. Sorry, win some, lose some I guess.

  147. Rutherford, #205 is way beneath who I thought you were, but that’s my problem now, isn’t it?

    Of course the point being that character is a quality I value in a leader and Edwards is one step up from Ted Bundy.

    But an important step. 🙂

    And yes I know Sarah is the villain in your book of life. But I’ll take her over Edwards one on one I don’t care if I have to hold her down to keep her from pushing that big red button that will blow up the whole wide world.

  148. “Wow! I don’t know where you live, but you leave the impression that there are a lot of jobs just waiting for people to fill them. Is that the case?”

    There are certainly a fair number. Much of the unemployment is by choice. The real question is how many of the available jobs match the benefits of government assistance. We have multiple generations here that have never worked a day in their lives.

    Now you were lecturing us about our lack of awareness. Tell us about your experiences that give you such insight.

  149. Oh, more importantly Rutherford, I was making fun of you and Thor relishing the memories of the orgy Sarah inspired where men of both parties were beating off over dreams of entirely different scenarios.

  150. Newt…you either grasp the idea of Christian theology or you don’t. You obviously have no clue what it means to be a good person so lets leave it at that since you would rather win semantic points than be honest.

  151. Muffy @ 199. Fair enough.

    FWIW, I wasn’t trying to tell you what to think, sorry if it came across that way. And I’m not looking for a Champion. I truly was addressing those points to R. I just didn’t care if other people saw. In retrospect, I probably should have just e-mailed him.

    “Engagement with him is a bad idea on my part”

    You said it much better than I. I guess there’s history between you two which I didn’t know about. Nuff said. 🙂

  152. This notion that Obama has spent the last four years campaigning is absurd (referencing Raji’s comment). The time spent on ACA could better have been spent on jobs. I’ll give you that. But he has not spent the past four years campaigning.

    BTW there is also this idea suggested by Ryan that Obama was more concerned with getting reelected than working for the American people. More nonsense. ACA was NOT to his political advantage yet he did it anyway.

  153. “Does that mean he should’ve cheated on her? Of course not. Does that mean they deserved each other …. damn straight Skippy.”

    Funny. I don’t recall that selective perspective when you were going on about Gingrich. I’m guessing it didn’t apply to McCain either. Strange.

    Well, we’ll leave it your ilk to comb through divorce records and report back your assessment of the merits of the relationships and treatment. 🙄

  154. To Alfie and Raji we don’t live in the third world so this idea of “poor Americans be happy for what you have” is skewed vision big time. It justifies doing nothing about American poverty.

  155. Pfesser affirmative action takes many forms and that’s why I differentiated. Actively recruiting for college applicants in the ghetto is a form of affirmative action and it is one I support.

  156. actually, Nagic: you are the one being dishonest now. You specifically said your bible stated something that it does not. Why not admit that you misspoke? Or maybe you’d like to cite to where in “Christian theology” that concept can be found? Factual misstatements are not semantics.

    As for John Edwards, he unquestionably is one of the most odious, sociopathic pieces of human waste on the planet.

  157. And I hate to let you in on this but the deficit is not our most pressing problem. Jobs are. (I just heard today Ryan’s plan will not give us a budget surplus until 2040.)

    If that is the case, and I dont know that it is, it is because the hole that has been dug with debt and entitlements is that deep.

    So are you now saying that you DO believe we should try to even the playing field for those who are disadvantaged through no fault of their own?

    I am not NOW…saying anything. I have always believed what I believe until someone shows me I am in error. I believe in responsible charity. You take care of your bills and responsibilities first, then give with what is left over. You don’t spend yourself until you are then in need of charity.

    An idea, as I explained, is something we always keep in mind as we go and make decisions. I am tired of having to defend the “goes without saying” comments with you. Of course we all want to help the poor. Those of us on the right think it is cruel to promise help we cannot sustain nor do we think we give at the expense of harming our country.

    I also want your thoughts on the life choices I mentioned.

  158. “But I’ll take her over Edwards one on one I don’t care if I have to hold her down to keep her from pushing that big red button that will blow up the whole wide world.” – Muffy

    🙂

    Now there’s the Muffy we know and love.

  159. Newt it is awfully funny to me that these Ayn Rand fans conveniently ignore she was an atheist.

    According to Tex atheists are only capable of grand atrocities. 🙂

  160. “…but this should be like the Russian v the Italian rhythmatic gymnastics contest at the Olympics.”

    LOLOL. James haha.

  161. I agree with Rutherford, not rather Elizabeth Edwards was a bitch, how would I know, I do know she was very vindictive when everything came out in the open. Do I blame her not really, but I really wonder about their relationship. Why did she continue to promote his candidacy after she found out about his infidelity? Did she want the Presidency for him worse than he wanted it for himself? From the first time they hit the national scene, she, Elizabeth, seemed to be promoting ‘their romance.’ All the talk about eating at some fast food place (sorry I recall which one) on their anniversary, because that was where he took her on dates or proposed or something; none of that rang true to me. He would just stand there or sit there silent while she went on and on about it. Something just wasn’t right, so if I learn someday their marriage was a sham for years, I for one won’t be surprised. We Democrats escaped a bullet there, that is for sure. Elizabeth Edwards is as much to blame for exposing our party to a loss as John Edwards was, maybe more so.

  162. actually, Nagic: you are the one being dishonest now. You specifically said your bible stated something that it does not. Why not admit that you misspoke? Or maybe you’d like to cite to where in “Christian theology” that concept can be found? Factual misstatements are not semantics.

    Emily, what point are you trying to make. Of what importance is it? How does it contribute to the point at hand and how does it further the conversation. Or is it you are just being a a bitch for the sake of being a bitch?

  163. The point that I was making was that you insult other people constantly and rudely, and attack their character rather than their ideas. Yet, when you make a factual misstatement, you are unwilling to admit it. Its importance is pointing out the hypocricy of someone who constantly accuses others of hypocricy. It furthers the conversation as much as anything you’ve ever said. And your response shows the sort of person Mr. “I’m Such A Good Christian” really is.

    Now, if indeed the concept of “teach a man to fish” is part of Christian theology, can you cite to where it appears? Thank you in advance.

  164. R I thought everyone here was a Christian, I’m shocked. Some say they aren’t, others that caring about others isn’t in their form of Christianity. Do you think this would be a good time to tell them, I am an agnostic? But that hasn’t kept me from reading the Bible and respecting Christ’s teachings.

  165. “I don’t give a flying fuck what the Catholic church and any of its henchmen shitbags have to say about anything. A more misguided bunch of men I doubt one could find.” – A

    Alfie, let’s be clear. Ryan is the one that made this connection and was chastised for it. I simply “reminded” the more pious here that the leaders of their own faith were on Newt’s side. Muffy is taking issue with it being a fair representation of the Catholic Church as a whole. That might take more investigation.

    BTW, better hit the bomb shelter. I think I just heard a fully loaded B-52 taking off from Enid. 😉

  166. Newt I still watch Newsroom. The personal plot lines are too cute by half and REALLY irritate me but the dramatization of how the news gets reported fascinates me.

    If you have the Osama episode on your TiVo watch it and skip the soap opera crap. I thought about that episode when Chuck Todd broke the Ryan pick Friday night.

  167. What can I say Emily, you have been nothing but a total c*nt to me since you came on here. You didn’t seek to engage me in any other way but to attack. Don’t bitch to me now, this is what you wanted.

    Now pay attention little girl…how does it further the conversation? How does it move it forward or contribute to it in any way? Point is it doesn’t. I said what I meant to say. REGARDLESS of where it originates it speaks to Christian ideals. You and yours chose to read meaning into it I did not intend.

    Even if I did intend it, how does it appearing or not appearing in the Bible change what I said or the point I made? ( I will ask this question as many times as needed until you answer)

  168. Tigre. LOL No I accidentally put my comment in moderation. I’m using a new release of the iPhone WordPress app and they changed some of the options.

    I’ll restore it post-haste.

  169. to newt #229
    Do you think this would be a good time to tell them, I am an agnostic? But that hasn’t kept me from reading the Bible and respecting Christ’s teachings.
    I don’t think that matters. Its actually a false statement of sorts but not necessarily one laced with malice. If you’re truly agnostic you’re not really following Christ’s teachings. As for the goodness in the hearts of secular humanists or non faith Christianists or whatever title one chooses who cares what put it there?

  170. @ thor yeah I get that and being me it is what it is. My point is broader still though.
    You do bring up an interesting thing though. Will democrats all of sudden find love in catholic doctrine and dogma and ask them to withhold the sacraments from Ryan?
    as for:
    BTW, better hit the bomb shelter. I think I just heard a fully loaded B-52 taking off from Enid.
    All good I revamped one of MA old NIKE sites and will handle the B52 accordingly.

  171. I’m more than happy to respond. It matters because you made it matter. You–not anyone else–are the person who attributed something to a particular source. Apparently you believed that by claiming it was scriptural in source, you bolstered the position–otherwise, why did you do so?

    As for speaking of me in gynecological terms, I am woefully unimpressed. Tex can do so in a truly breathtaking way–you are a cheap imitation. And why have I pushed back at you? Because, after lurking on this very interesting blog for many months, I found that virtually everyone here actually seems to have a core of goodness. Poolman may be nuts (and I think he is) but at least he is well-meaning. Muffy is hilarious, even when she insults people. Gorilla and Tigre can be insulting but they actually say things that are thought-provoking and interesting. James is someone obviously very worthwhile. But you just act like a jerk.

  172. Tigre if you care to respond at all you can do so privately if you wish but I gotta know why you, a white attorney making (I assume) a decent salary are living in a depressed black neighborhood.

    I always have considered you an honorary brotha. 🙂

  173. oh–and I will ask again (because you don’t seem able to answer) where in Christian theology the “teach a man to fish” concept is found. And I will say again that you are the one who characterized it that way. If, in fact, you were wrong, why don’t you use one of the dozens of insults (“man up,” “grow a set,” “shift your sack,” etc.) that you employ against others and say so. It’s not so hard. Just say it’s the way you feel but it doesn’t appear in Christian doctrine. Easy as pie.

  174. And I hate to let you in on this but the deficit is not our most pressing problem.Jobs are
    Actually Rutherford, the deficit and debt IS the most pressing problem. It is the answer to all. It is the question. It is the Alpha and Omega. (That is definitely in the Bible!) It is the root of all. It is the cornerstone. It is is is is is is.

  175. Alfie: you are very witty and have a true way with words. And you are always an interesting poster. Feel better, dear?

  176. It matters because you made it matter.

    A lie. I said from the beginning it was meaningless. Must be that time of the month for you to be this petty.

    You–not anyone else–are the person who attributed something to a particular source.

    A Lie. I said I attributed to my ideology. Just because you read between the lines doesn’t make it true.

    Now focus little girl. I will leave out my first question because two seems to leave you befuddled and confused. Even if I did intend it, how does it appearing or not appearing in the Bible change what I said or the point I made?

  177. To Alfie and Raji we don’t live in the third world so this idea of “poor Americans be happy for what you have” is skewed vision big time. It justifies doing nothing about American poverty.-R

    R, you missed the point! To a third world person, they could not relate to the problems of the poor in this country (First World) You don’t complain about the neighbor’s porta potty stinking to a person with a latrine.

    R, you really think ACA was not part of a campaign movement? Why do you think it was not to his advantage? Obama will go down in history as the POTUS that gave us a health care plan where or not it was affordable.

  178. Not a lie. Go back and read your post–you said it was in your bible. Does it matter? Does anything on an internet blog matter? Probably not. But it was one more occasion on which you were unable to simply make a point without insulting someone else. It’s not enough that you express your personal opinion–you have to go after the character of people who hold other opinions.

    Now focus, little boy. My point seems to be beyond your very limited comprehension. You said that it was in your bible. Then you said it was part of Christian theology. Where? Or have you finally told the truth in your post above: it is part of your “ideology.” Simply your personal opinion. There we go!

  179. This iPhone app is starting to piss me off. As I navigate the thread it’s skipping over comments and I have to track back to see why a comment referring to another comment doesn’t make sense.

    Why am I not at my PC you ask. Because summer is waning and I’m not wasting a beautiful day in the 70’s. I’m on my deck getting some much needed fresh air.

  180. Newt, you’re pretentious, arrogant and stupid.

    I believe in employment, nothing is as character building as that first paid job as a teenager, but I am a realist.

    No, you’re not. You’re deluding yourself and hoping we’re just as stupid. As of July 2012, teenage unemployment is 23.8%. Not a whole lot of “character building” going on under Obama.

    While some of you live in regions unaffected by unemployment, so you don’t see the same set of facts as others of us, we who in live areas with massive layoffs.

    What fucking planet do you live on? There isn’t a single “region” that has not suffered under Obama’s economy. States with GOP governors have recovered faster than Dem controlled states, but the nation still has unemployment that far exceeds the average unemployment rate under George W. Bush. Fact.

    So it is easy for you to get all high and mighty over other people’s work ethic, I and other’s like myself, not only have compassion for those who are out of work, but we are protective of the many low wage workers, those who live on the edge, without benefits.

    Really, go fuck yourself. I don’t appreciate condescending commentary from folks who clearly don’t understand economics or human nature. You and other’s like you have put a record number of people in poverty and on food stamps. (*Golf clap*) Pat yourself on the back as you foster an environment of dependency. And while you’re circle jerking, remember that it was welfare reform (pushed by Republicans) that required employment efforts – requirements Obama didn’t support at the time and recently removed – that actually got people back on their feet and off of welfare. But that’s not your intent, now is it. Why get them off the tit when they’re more predictable when they’re dependent on the government.

    Before you cry the typical foul, think (novel, I know) about why the ‘War on Poverty’ has been an abject failure and why every inner city controlled by Dems has not managed to get anyone out of poverty. Your ideas don’t work. They won’t work. You don’t seem to care though…

    I have been fortunate, I live the good life, nice house, quality food, excellent healthcare. Do I deserve it? Damn right I do!

    You didn’t earn that, so no, you don’t deserve it. To be intellectually honest, you should be stripped of your possessions and they should be redistributed to those in greater need. From each, to each and all that business…

    But that doesn’t make me think

    You don’t say…

    I am any better than any family struggling; wife with two jobs, dad on unemployment, wondering if they can stay in their house, feed their children, or get medicine for their asthmatic two-year-old, send their teen to college, or take time off to be with a sick parent. Do some of you even have any idea, how uncaring you sound? How Unchristian?

    You do realize that the bulk of the jobs being created by Obama are part-time jobs, right? They get counted the same in the general numbers, but if you actually look at the data, it spells out how a very large percentage (half or better) are part time versus full time. Likewise, I assume you also realize that it was Dems like Obama, Barney Franks, and Christopher Dodd who protected and fostered the sub-prime credit crisis, which lead directly to the housing bubble and its predicted crash. And Obamacare is not going to fix the medical industry, economically or qualitatively. Do you have any idea how stupid you sound? How unthinking? Got it?

  181. As part of my nostalgia weekend I watched Palin’s first speech after McCain intro’d her. She was PROUD of Todd’s union membership. My what a difference four years make. 🙂

  182. Thor I know you’re a Christian but this thread is EXACTLY what pisses me off about religion.

    All the so called Christians here selectively citing their bible and ignoring charity and “the least of us”.

  183. BTW there is also this idea suggested by Ryan that Obama was more concerned with getting reelected than working for the American people. More nonsense. ACA was NOT to his political advantage yet he did it anyway.” – R

    Reality begs to differ…

    Mark Knoller tweets:

    “Pres Obama has five fundraisers on his schedule today: Ticket prices range: $51. $1,000, $5,000 and two events at $40,000 per person.”

    “Good morning from Chicago – where Pres Obama today will zoom past the 200 mark in the number of campaign fundraisers this cycle.”

    “As Pres Obama hits the 200 mark in fundraisers today, compare to GeorgeWBush who had done 88 fundraisers at same point in re-election bid.”

  184. Emily,

    I will be happy to answer your question. And though I do not include you in this criticism because I do not know you, it is nauseating to me to read reprobate minds using Christ in conversation to justify the Dimocratic form of social justice – theft by another name. Once upon a time, these same folk were called Pharisees.

    May I point out that in effect what weak minds like Newton are attempting to justify is to supplant the God-ordained rules of family, church, and community and replace them with the Dimocratic platform of government secularism and socialism – to be redistributed as Caesar sees fit? This simply cannot be denied and there is nothing scriptural about it.

    I challenge either Thor or Newton to provide me with one scripture where Caesar ordained to divvy the charity. Just one. Ask the mealy-mouthed Sanhedrin how bowing to Caesar and granting biblical authority worked for them in 70AD?

    Thor acts as if some self ordained board prefaced with Catholic or Christian is expert in biblical authority. Many of these same groups can justify abortion in God’s name too. Sorry, doesn’t work that way. God’s word speaks for itself. For instance:

    2 Thessalonians 3:10 New International Version (NIV)

    For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”

    Are these people here professing to be more knowledgeable than Paul, writer of much of the New Testament and founder of the church?

  185. Tigre you show me the evidence that Newt’s two first wives were hell to live with and I’ll make the same assessment that I did with Edwards. As far as I know the only offense offered by the first McCain was losing her looks in a car accident.

    Like many compartmentalized men I consider McCain (and Kennedy and FDR) virtuous in certain ways and total scumbags in others.

  186. “Alfie, let’s be clear. Ryan is the one that made this connection and was chastised for it. I simply “reminded” the more pious here that the leaders of their own faith were on Newt’s side. Muffy is taking issue with it being a fair representation of the Catholic Church as a whole. That might take more investigation.”

    Thor,

    Whose (own) faith are you referring to? Serious question.

    A little more poking and I’m at least able to say that Catholic bishops are in no position to criticize a budget unless they are budget whizzes, and I hope the good Bishop Stephen E. Blaire of Stockton, California hasn’t been meddling in his own city’s politics.

  187. thank you, Tex. I was very sure that you would be able to provide an actual response. Were I wearing a hat, I would tip it.

  188. Muffy don’t paint me into the Edwards defender corner. He is lower than pond scum. But a fair assessment acknowledges his wife was no prize either. That’s all I was saying.

  189. Alfie I haven’t gotten through the entire thread yet but surely morality informs your politics. How can it not?
    #1 Morality and religion are not necessarily hand in hand,strictly speaking.
    #2. I pride myself on not allowing my faith upbringing or my moral code (yes I do have one) to impact my politics. I try to be honest and consistent with my politics and since I am a person who for example a)believes in the death penalty b) believes in abortion as a medical procedure c) believes in the doctrine of Total War d) accepts that people die of illness,suffering etc e)believes in taxation…
    I don’t know any faith etc that allows,excuses etc this stuff. For me my personal and political lives are different. In truth my personal and professional life is too. When I worked 911 my prejudices,pride,views etc took a backseat to duty. Just me I guess. Now you know a little more about me.

  190. R sorry, but I won’t be watching that episode unless it is replayed, I deleted three episodes, unwatched, just this morning.
    Let us be perfectly clear, I never claimed to be a follower of Christ, but I do respect his teachings and in general I abide by them, simply because they make sense. I have never been a fan of Paul, though much of what we consider to be Christianity actually originated with him. I would answer Muffy, if this was addressed to me, “Some people equate “good” Christian with “gentlemanly” and I would say they are wrong,” I agree with her. I think a good Christian would attempt live by Christ’s words or the few phrases we are told by in the Bible were spoken by him. I realize what an ambiguous book (s) the Bible is, but if I were a Christian, I would certainly give Jesus’ words more credence and authority than anyone else in the Bible.

  191. “Muffy your comment about Tex puzzles the hell out of me. You’re not suggesting he be held to a different standard than anyone else here are you?”

    Not at all, even though you do (hold him to a different standard).

    Does anyone’s spouse read these comments?

  192. No no no.

    There is no such thing as a good Christian.

    You either believe that God sent His son to pay a debt He did not owe and one that we could not pay, or you don’t.

  193. R you were right to address this to me, “Newt do you really expect Nagic to credit anything to China? They’re commies after all.” I thought about saying it myself, Rutherford, but you know me, I hate to make waves and create controversy. LOL

  194. Wow Nagic, if you’re making Tex look like Mr. Manners, you might want to re-think your “approach”. 😉

    Hey Emily, I think you’re getting off the hook pretty easy. Nag once called Alfie a commie. When I point out Nag’s hypocrisy, he strips me of my credibility merit badge, calls me a piece of shit and critiques mine and R’s lovemaking style. 😉

  195. Paul Ryan ruined the Republican convention for me, I no long expect fireworks, so hubby and I are going on a week long holiday end of the month. but just in case I’ll set the DVR.

  196. “I’ll restore it post-haste.” -R

    Given the stupidity of your comment, I think you should just leave it in moderation permanently.

    I’ll respond to your others when I feel less like slapping the shit out of you.

  197. Rutherford, in addition to my previous question please explain.

    This notion that Obama has spent the last four years campaigning is absurd.

    Why is this absurd?

  198. Newt, @165 where there’s a will there’s a way. Will Allen seems to know how to grow veggies on pavement
    http://www.growingpower.org/.

    Regarding Christianity, here’s a good example from St. Peter’s Inner City Garden Initiative.
    http://web.st-peters.org/blog/2012/02/09/inner-city-garden-initiative/

    Let me define my concept of First World poor. It’s a family on unemployment or welfare benefits who receive food stamps and Medicaid. They can barely afford the rent and utilities but they have two cars parked in the yard, cable TV, cell phone with unlimited texting, high speed internet and an Ipod blasting out music. Oh and the pants they hold up with one hand is because of a fashion statement not because the pants are hand me downs.

    There are truly poor people in this country that do not meet the above concept and these do need our help and support.

    “James, excellent reference to micro loans. I’ve wondered if any of that is going on in the U S of A.” – Yes, through Heifer International which has programs in the USA

  199. Sorry, Nagic. Didn’t see you answer my question. See–if I ask something, you are required to answer it. If you fail to do so, you are evidencing a serious lack of character and intelligence. So pull up your big boy pants, adjust your nuts, and respond. Have I used sufficiently small words for you to understand them? If not, please see if Mrs. Nagic can help you.

  200. Nope G you’re wrong. He was an arrogant prick and she should have left him the minute she figured that out … not stick around and verbally abuse him in public. Mind you, I’m talking before the Rielle Hunter affair.

    But then maybe she was one of those “Hillary wives” who cared more about the politics than the marriage?

  201. Newt: I don’t know how seriously you can take that sort of article. I think that it is pretty much accepted that it will be a close race. No way to know yet how the public will react to the Ryan selection. JMO

  202. OK Newt, I give up, what are you smoking? Tell you what, why don’t you come over to my place and you can explain why Obama’s numbers are below 50% and falling in every category that really matters. Independents 39% (deciding political demographic); White 35% (largest and most reliable ethnic voting demographic); National Adults 45%(An average of all the age groups and is inflated because of the 18-29, which is the most unreliable voting bloc).

    Or better yet, maybe you can explain how it is that Romney supporters have the same interests as the overall electoral priorities, whereas Obama supporters do not.

    Really, this should be fun…

  203. Poolman in this case wouldn’t it be getting muffed?

    Too easy, Rutherford. It may be hard to believe, but I really try to restrain. Still working on my overswing. Muffy, bless her heart, has chosen a screen name that googles up oodles of fluff and stuff. 🙂

    Like a lays potato chip or chips ahoy cookie (old style), it’s hard to stop with just one.

    Occasionally my wife reads the comments over my shoulder. Sometimes I share some of the more interesting posts.

  204. “Thor I know you’re a Christian but this thread is EXACTLY what pisses me off about religion.” -R

    R, it pains me to do this because I promised myself I would never give out this personal of stuff here again, but I consider you a friend (I really mean that) so I don’t want you to be misled. I’m not a Christian. I believe in God, I believe in Jesus. but I can’t get past the mutual exclusivity. I would like to think I’m very close to being a Christian, but as Muffy so aptly put it, you either are or you aren’t. It’s like being a little pregnant.

    I believe Heaven is like a mountain peak. Their are many ways to the top. Their are also a few cliffs you can fall off. Fundamentalism is a high, treacherous cliff. I’d let you and Alfie and James clip on my rope anytime. Don’t fret Muffy, you’re already at the top waiting on us. 🙂

  205. I have offered up the challenge four times now to Newton, and undoubtedly her mouth is much greater than her confidence in these bold claims.

    Set the bet, Newton. 😉 Show us what you are made of.

    I’ll go one better. I’ll bet Newton right now that Nov. 2012 is going to look much like Nov. 2010.

    P.S. – 😆 You like to quote the Bible, but you nothing of it? I guess that is the theme of your life, hey?

    P.S.S. – Did you give Wattle Jean my message? Tell her to come on over and prove her mettle. Some place she can’t edit comments, and we’ll see if she’s any smarter than you. Can’t be too hard.

  206. Thor, if you ever read one of my comments, you should read this one. It’s from the heart – but this is one time I won’t burn you with the personals.

    I believe in God, I believe in Jesus.

    I believe Heaven is like a mountain peak. Their are many ways to the top.

    Your claims are in conflict. You can’t claim to believe in Jesus and make that kind of statement. In fact, you would be better to either make no claim at all – better to be hot or cold.

    Because that is completely contrary to what Jesus said. And if you don’t know Jesus, then you don’t know God. 😐

    You’re actually calling Jesus a liar, or making a liar of yourself.

  207. Amazing how therapeutic peeling 50 lbs of potatoes can be. Something about eviscerating your woes away.

    Emily, you didn’t answer my very simple question because it exposed you for what you were trying to do, namely pick a fight. Newt was needing a life-preserver and you offered it in the form of a petty and small minded argument to distract from the topic, which you successfully did. Congratulations, you do the left proud.

  208. Two questions to hit the reset button back to pure politics as it were.
    #1 Anyone else here have tax free weekends lately? MA had theirs this weekend. I’ve been back and forth on these things since we introduced some time back. I used to like the idea especially in light of “Back to School” shopping but then again since the Bay State doesn’t tax clothes… Then I was kind of against them solidly since I think the stores are porking folks with false sales plus the 5% previously 6.25% now a days which quite frankly the state could use unless one fuller subscribes to various economics that think somehow the single weekend leads to job growth,income tax and other synergizers. If you got that in your boat I’ve got a bridge for ya.
    #2 Anyone else have an opinion on the bill that was finally signed allowing the POTUS to appoint folks without the “advice and consent” of the Senate? I’m a little torn on this one too.

  209. We find in the gospels that Jesus said, “I am the Way and the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the Father except by (through) Me.”

    “But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” He is the gate. He is the vine. We (believers) are the branches. We have to remain in Him to receive life (spiritually) and to grow. We are supposed to follow the example He set and taught in this life journey as it is documented in the gospels.

    So call yourself whatever you like. It really doesn’t matter. He chooses whoever He likes to follow wherever He leads. Not everyone has ears to hear.

  210. “Whose (own) faith are you referring to? Serious question.” – M

    I was referring to those who consider themselves Christians. I recognize that all Christians are not Catholics, but certainly all Catholics are Christians.

    Did you just read the excerpt or go to the link. The USCCB is more than one person shooting off letters to Congress. Here is part of their mission statement that pertains.

    “STATEMENT OF WORK
    I. GOALS AND RESPONSIBILITIES
    The Gospel of Christ and the teachings of his Church guide the work of the USCCB. The work of the Conference is rooted in three general mission goals and organized into three key areas of responsibility.

    General Mission Goals of the USCCB

    To act collaboratively and consistently on vital issues confronting the Church and society
    To foster communion with the Church in other nations, within the Church universal, under the leadership of its supreme pastor, the Roman Pontiff
    To offer appropriate assistance to each bishop in fulfilling his particular ministry in the local Church”

  211. Also primarily @ thor… Not to get too cocky but the coverage I’ve looked at seems to indicate the R&R tour is going well. Yeah its early but I think the mechanics are sound.
    As for mountains. Ironically I never liked climbing up. Serious. I love rappelling though.I’ll have to get to know you better before I allow you to be my belay. 🙂

  212. Nagic, you dumb ass. Perhaps you didn’t note my post when I explained that I was a Huntsman supporter. So no–I am not on the “left.” I am simply someone who believes you are a tool. And I didn’t answer your question because (a) it’s not your blog, (b) you don’t control it, and (c) you make a complete fool of yourself with your demands that people answer you.

  213. Sorry Alfie, meant to get back to this sooner.

    “You do bring up an interesting thing though. Will democrats all of sudden find love in catholic doctrine and dogma and ask them to withhold the sacraments from Ryan?” –

    Spot on. Both sides pick and choose. I’m sure Ryan is a good guy. Many in Congress could not pass the scrutiny of their own publicly conveyed convictions, he seems like he could. I don’t find him cynical, just misguided.

    Now, if we could just get Romney into a confessional, we might finally get our hands on those damn tax returns. 😉

  214. ”And I hate to let you in on this but the deficit is not our most pressing problem. Jobs are.”

    ”Actually Rutherford, the deficit and debt IS the most pressing problem. It is the answer to all. It is the question. It is the Alpha and Omega. (That is definitely in the Bible!) It is the root of all. It is the cornerstone. It is is is is is is.”

    I think Romney and Ryan are united on what they believe to be the priorities. The secret to success in getting America back on the road to prosperity is economic growth, along with spending discipline and entitlement reforms.

  215. Perhaps I’m giving Ryan the benefit of doubt thing to a higher order but after rereading the letters from the USCCB and the letter from the folks at Georgetown I find a few sticking points for me.
    In the former I do indeed side (I’m not catholic btw) with the cardinals on record of concern over stepping and having concerns about other family items. Blaire [?] seemed to be the hard charger.
    The Georgetown piece fed into the other letters (come to find a total of 4 to various House comm.) had a serious tinge of hypocrisy and arrogance for me. The bit about Pell grants ticked me a little but the velvet hammering of Ryan over the substainity [sp def wrong] thing really chewed on me. For example block grants back to the source seems to be very much in line with the teachings yet the Georgetown folks are all pissy about it.

    I ‘ll leave you with this. Romney has met his obligations,further disclosures may indeed come though like a September or October surprise kind of thing.

  216. you didn’t answer my question, Nagic. You have shown that you don’t have any integrity or courage. You are a shell of a person with nothing to offer anyone or anything. If you don’t answer my questions, you are completely meaningless. My questions! My questions! Everyone has to answer my questions! If they don’t answer my question, they should die. They have no balls (I love gonad references). They have anal sex (I love homo-erotic slurs). They are worthless because the only measure of a person is if they answer my questions. (note: because you seem really slow and dim-witted, I am mocking you).

  217. “I’ll have to get to know you better before I allow you to be my belay.’ – A

    LOL. My skills are impeccable. But bring your own rope, unless you want to trust a bohemian’s hemp. 😉

  218. ”Two questions to hit the reset button back to pure politics as it were.”

    Good luck with that. Sorry.

    ~

    “…certainly all Catholics are Christians.”

    I don’t know if you’re disagreeing with me or if I lead you to believe that this is what I think.

    Some, not all, Catholics are Christians. Some, not all, Christians are Catholics. That’s what I think.

    “Did you just read the excerpt or go to the link?”

    I flitted around. I’d have to go back and read the question too. I’m only so interested in what the Catholic church thinks of Ryan’s budget plan.

    PS…You can read #292 if you’re interested. Tex left it for you. No barbs. IMO what he is saying is entirely true. To believe is to choose. Both “Jesus is the way” and “all roads lead to Rome” cannot be true.

    Maybe what a few of us combatants need around here is a safe word. 🙂

  219. Before the Reformation there was Catholicism, except for a few heretics, I think we all know what the church did with them. So of course Catholics are Christians.

  220. Muffy, it takes two to make a marriage. Sometimes the wife IS totally innocent, devoted, and a real darling to be married to. Sometimes the wife is an erratic nutjob with verbally abusive tendencies. As I think Newt may have said earlier Elizabeth Edwards FACILITATED the cover up of her husband’s disgusting behavior.

    I don’t know why you cannot accept that John Edwards being a scumbag and Elizabeth Edwards being less than admirable CAN occur in the same universe. And you know full well I’m not saying Elizabeth forced John to behave the way he did. But I am saying she’s no heroine in her own right despite the typical cries from the media.

    Let me repeat … they were two very dysfunctional people and they deserved each other.

  221. There are plenty of denominations that go under the banner of Christianity. But there are fewer within them that walk the walk. It isn’t a matter of degree, rather every matter in agreement. That is what Holy Spirit is for. Way mo better than Siri. 😀

  222. Elizabeth Edwards’ disposition is irrelevant to John Edwards’ character.

    Even if locked him out of the bedroom, beat him over the head with a shovel, and rolled him up in a carpet and set him on fire – can can divorce her.

    ‘night pookie 🙂

  223. “So of course Catholics are Christians.”

    Are you talking about theology, Newt? Or people?

    Just checking. I’m talking about people. I know a few Catholics that aren’t Christian. Quite a few actually.

  224. “I flitted around. I’d have to go back and read the question too.” – Muffy

    Don’t worry about it. I’m actually more interested in this …

    “Some, not all, Catholics are Christians.”

    Are there ways to salvation in the Catholic Church that don’t involve Christ?

    “PS…You can read #292 if you’re interested. Tex left it for you.”

    Umm. 292 was me. Unless something got jumbled in moderation. R, no more playing outside for you.

  225. I am saying if the Catholic church hadn’t existed for close to two thousand years, no one today would have even heard of Christianity, it would just be one of many mystery religions that existed during Roman times. They were the only Christian Church until the Reformation.
    As to who is and isn’t a Christian, my feeling is, if someone says they are a Christian, who are we to say they aren’t.

  226. Newt, I can say I’m a fish, but unless I breathe water it probably isn’t so. The test as Jesus pronounced it was “the world would know us by our love, one for another.”

    He also instructs us to be crafty as serpents and harmless as lambs.

    Quit looking at the jerseys and start looking at the score. 😉

  227. Oh, I think I get it now, Muffy. Are you saying that being Catholic is an ethnicity as well as a religion? Kind of like being Jewish but not practicing Judaism. I never thought of it that way.

  228. “Are there ways to salvation in the Catholic Church that don’t involve Christ?” -thor

    No. But there are many in the Catholic church that aren’t saved.

    #292 is now #294.

    “I am saying if the Catholic church hadn’t existed for close to two thousand years, no one today would have even heard of Christianity,” -newt

    I’m not too sure how to answer this except to say that Christianity is in no way subordinate to, preceded by, a descendant of, or dependent on Catholicism.

    “As to who is and isn’t a Christian, my feeling is, if someone says they are a Christian, who are we to say they aren’t.”

    Agreed. But if they know they aren’t and tell you so – certainly we can then also say that they are not.

  229. #322 – something like that. I was raised Catholic, have never renounced the church, still attend – but I became a Christian in my early 20s and prefer when possible to sit in a service focused on bible studies.

  230. Thor, the Catholic Church is a true maze throughout which truth and light is intertwined with ritual and darkness. There are many well-intentioned souls as well as Pharisees and devils within its global entirety.

    The founder of the faith (Constantine) married pagan and early church (the way) traditions, in order to govern and control the masses. It became the state religion and was required to be followed without dissent.

    Modern Catholicism does teach Jesus Christ as savior and Son of God, but also emphasizes prayer to Mary and deceased saints. Priests are required to moderate prayer and forgiveness. Candles, icons and other imagery mix pagan and occult tradition. Modern elements exist in some congregations. Some even tend to combine ‘new age’ practices. There is a gamut of styles to Catholicism.

    I grew up Catholic and was an altar boy. I remember mass in Latin. Some places still perform mass in Latin.

    I know some Catholics that are indeed believers. But for most, it is just a religious label or tradition.

  231. It’s an personal acceptance of Christ as Lord and Savior.

    If you ever want to know more Tex really does articulate the answers well – I’ve not seen him give one false statement since I’ve known him and he’ll tell you the truth. BIC is also similarly gifted if I’m not mistaken. Read anything by Billy Graham if you want to know what it means to be a Christian.

    It might be of interest for you to know that the Apostle Paul, a most gifted evangelist, was to the minds of many, supposed to be a real prickly guy. He was also a chief persecutor of Christians before he was converted.

  232. “As to who is and isn’t a Christian, my feeling is, if someone says they are a Christian, who are we to say they aren’t.”

    Newt I wanted to follow up with the comment that most of us don’t have the proper discernment to make this determination, but some do.

  233. My wife, who is from Texas, grew up in a first Baptist Church. She actually led me to the Lord in my early twenties. I was persuaded to ask Him into my life and be Lord of my heart shortly after dropping acid and watching Jesus of Nazareth one Easter and freaking out thinking I had missed the rapture of the church and was left behind.

    One hell of a trip, let me tell you. 😯

  234. We are planning to offer our authors ready-made Websites, I just spent three days studying Dreamweaver and CSS; ahh….so much better than sitting in a dark room, looking at black-and-white pictures and talking to yourself. No asshole doctors to deal with.

    Here I’m gone for three days and this thread has gone to hell. Quoting Cheech and Chong, you used to be fucked up on drugs and now you are fucked up on the lord.

    What you folks need is a devout atheist to get you back on track. I know one.

  235. Good advice for all of us debaters here:

    Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. -Ralph Waldo Emerson, writer and philosopher (1803-1882)

  236. “As Pres Obama hits the 200 mark in fundraisers today, compare to GeorgeWBush who had done 88 fundraisers at same point in re-election bid.”

    G, do all the comparisons to Bush you like. How much fund raising did Obama do from 2009 through the middle of 2011? Raji’s claim was that he was fund raising when he should have been running the government. Early in his presidency he was doing exactly what he was supposed to be doing.

    It is an unfortunate political reality that you can’t run for President without giving political speeches and fund raising. This inevitably distracts from the job.

  237. Charity is given, not forced or demanded.

    Charity is a mindset. As a true Christian you either have that mindset or you don’t. If you don’t, then you are a hypocrite of a Christian (or at least you fail to live up to Christ’s example).

  238. Thanks Ragi for the micro lending comment. We also have rich people who willingly donate money for tax or moral reasons. A retired farmer near us bought Birkshire Hathaway stock when it was cheap. He is worth a lot of money now, and he donates it to worthy causes. Johnny Carson, who had relatives and connections here, donated money for swimming pools etc after he died.

    Christian charity is private giving because it is the choice of the benefactor. Giving money through government action is not charity. Accusing people of not behaving of Christians is an old liberal trick.It is akin to calling people racists.

    Newt or no newt made a good point about Catholics and protestants. Remember, I wrote about the Lutherans and others’ treatment of the Sami people who were also exploited by non-Christians.

    Someone wrote it is unseemly to feel superior to people less fortunate. There is a point to that. However, considering what many successful people endure to reach their positions, a little pride is deserved. Successful people do have an obligation to give some of their money back to help others, because luck helped them create their wealth.

    We are not wealthy, but one of the luckiest things to happen to me was the discrimination and ill treatment I recieved because I was a veteran.

  239. Thanks R, don’t have a clue about #245 & 281 being a partial repeat but WP kept saying a duplicate post. Maybe the RL blog overwhelmed WP last night with all the slam dunk comments. 😉

  240. I agree with Muffy’s comments about the debt. Iowa also has tax free days for school children.

    Emily supported Huntsman at least in her fantasies. So did I.

  241. #1 Morality and religion are not necessarily hand in hand,strictly speaking.
    #2. I pride myself on not allowing my faith upbringing or my moral code (yes I do have one) to impact my politics. I try to be honest and consistent with my politics and since I am a person who for example a)believes in the death penalty b) believes in abortion as a medical procedure c) believes in the doctrine of Total War d) accepts that people die of illness,suffering etc e)believes in taxation…
    I don’t know any faith etc that allows,excuses etc this stuff. For me my personal and political lives are different. In truth my personal and professional life is too. When I worked 911 my prejudices,pride,views etc took a backseat to duty. Just me I guess. Now you know a little more about me.

    Alfie, this is fodder for a much deeper discussion but a couple of observations:

    I don’t link morality and religion. Unlike many here, I think an atheist completely capable of living a moral life. So, that said, I never thought you were limiting your statement to faith.

    Your beliefs, a, b, c and d ARE part of your moral code. It does not matter if no faith supports these beliefs.

    For me my personal and political lives are different. In truth my personal and professional life is too.

    I think major mixing of apples and oranges here but maybe we’re having a problem agreeing on semantics. Politics at its core is moral. Folks whose politics are 180 from their moral code are hypocrites. Your professional life is something ENTIRELY different. Often in our professions we must do things that don’t sync completely with our moral code in order to keep putting food on the table, or to serve some better good. As an EMT you might have had to save the life of a murderer or gang banger who you morally didn’t feel worth saving. But as you say, your duty called for you to ignore these moral considerations. That is very different from politics.

    Many here guard their identity so that their expressed political beliefs cannot be traced back to their professions and cause negative impact. I’d say the same is true of our moral codes.

    Again, we may just be quibbling over words.

    P.S. We may suppress our political beliefs in certain parts of our personal life so we don’t alienate people unnecessarily. That practical truth does not mean we divorce politics from morality.

  242. Does anyone’s spouse read these comments?

    Mine absolutely does not. Once in a blue moon she’s moved to comment … it’s happened maybe twice in five years. She did make a brief appearance to announce my hospitalization and I have asked her if I kick the bucket to get on here and let you guys know.

    I love to argue and debate. She does not.

  243. There is no such thing as a good Christian.

    You either believe that God sent His son to pay a debt He did not owe and one that we could not pay, or you don’t.

    I find this assessment fascinating. So Muffy, are you narrowing down Christianity to one simple belief divorced from any moral code? Are the ten commandments irrelevant? Please elaborate.

  244. I see a landslide for our side though, including the House.

    Not so fast. Mitt could have chosen a ham sandwich as running mate and millions of Obama-haters would turn out to turn HIM out. I still see this as a close election particularly if we have a problem with Dem voter turnout. Romney did a game change. Obama has not.

  245. Also @ Rutherford.
    I wish you success on your new regimen.
    I think we’ll have to part ways on my morality etc. It would indeed need more than a thread dialog allows.
    Labor Day release of something with follow up in October. Obama does indeed appear less confident to address the issues though so I could be wrong.
    Tight race,comes down to three or four states. Polls will prove unreliable.
    Poolman gets a W for his comments on the early Catholic Church.

  246. Simply put, this is no way to run a country. The problem is not gridlock or ideological fervor. The problem is an increasingly irresponsible government that has for far too long been far too easily let off the hook. Whichever party emerges victorious in November, and whatever happens in the lame-duck session, this much is certain: Unless taxpayers begin demanding their president and Congress act responsibly, and do the actual work they were elected to do,“gridlock” will be the least of our problems.

    Reason

  247. Ruthertford if you can get your hands on a copy of FP or hit their online version check out the piece Dumb and Dumber by George Lakoff.
    Unfortunately for me FP has fully morphed in2 its WaPo cousin that it is and gobbled the liberal goo and not the good Euro kind.
    Anyway one can see that the UCLA Berk. jerk tried to be fair but ultimately he scores blue.
    The reason I recommend this to you is that it did capture the mood of morals and policy in politics as it relates to “low information voters”.
    If I find a link I’ll drop it. I really think you and some of the other objective left o’ centers would enjoy it.

  248. I’m feeling lazy R so I’m not doing posts at my place today. Hope you don’t mind the pseudo-pimpng.
    Der Speigel offers a round up of the spectrum of German newspapers views on the Ryan pick.
    HERE

  249. R, how many “functions” has Obama done over the years that were joined with fundraising activities? You know, he’d do some function for an hour and then go to three fundraisers, which wouldn’t be counted. Obama is the only president since at least Carter (probably only one) to visit every battleground state in his first year.

    Again, if you were honest with yourself and us, you’d admit that this president has been more occupied with his re-election since day one than any other president any of us have ever seen. Pro or con – it is a plain fact. Show some integrity, will ya?

  250. @ gorilla…What’s your take on the news coming out of Egypt. I was a little shocked by the Sinai thing,not so shocked the generals thing. Something bigger brewing?

  251. Morsi had to do something because the military and the President are on a collision course. Egypt doesn’t really control the Sinai right now, which is going to turn into a real issue shortly. The Bedouin groups in the Sinai are heavily influenced by Salafists instead of the MB, so that means Morsi doesn’t have the ideological control he would like.

    My prediction is that Sinai is going to deteriorate, which means that at some point, Egypt and Israel are going to agree on abandoning force restrictions in the area. That’ll seem like a fix, but it’ll be a short term illusion and will set the stage for a long term conflict as it potentially sets the conditions for 6 Days II.

    In the short term, Morsi is focused on securing his position and that of the MB.

  252. Doherty, who has compiled statistics about presidential travel and fundraising going back to President Jimmy Carter in 1977, found that Obama had held 104 fundraisers by March 6th this year, compared to 94 held by Presidents Carter, Ronald Reagan, George Bush Snr, Bill Clinton and George W. Bush combined.

    Since then, Obama has held another 20 fundraisers, bringing his total to 124. Carter held four re-election fundraisers in the 1980 campaign, Reagan zero in 1984, Bush Snr 19 in 1992, Clinton 14 in 1996 and Bush Jnr 57 in 2004.

    While the Obama’s campaign activities in office have been largely in line with historical trends, he is especially vulnerable to criticism because in 2008 he promised to change how politics works and to curb links with special interests.

    Vowing in 2008 to ‘launch the most sweeping ethics reform in US history’ Obama said that if elected he would ‘make government more open, more accountable and more responsive to the problems of the American people’.

    In his State of the Union speech in January, Obama bemoaned the ‘corrosive influence of money in politics’. The following month, he reversed course and announced he was allowing cabinet members and top advisors to speak at big money events for so-called super PACs – unaccountable outside groups raising money for his re-election.

    During the 2008 election, Obama abandoned a pledge to opt for public funding of his campaign, instead opting to raise an unlimited amount privately. He then raised and spent approximately $730million, almost double the campaign funds of Senator John McCain, his Republican opponent.

    It is worth noting this is an old article and I am sure the number of fundraisers he has done is much much higher.

  253. Speaking of fundraisers, Rmoney was the first presidential candidate to ever hold one in Israel, or in another nation besides our own.

    It’s also pretty much a given that Israel will officially take over the control of the Sinai. They pretty much control us by proxy.

  254. At the time the Roman Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity and made it the official state religion, there were what were know as the mystery religions, one of those was Mithraism. Mithraism was quite popular with the Roman legions, one of the temples was actually unearthed in London during the Second World War, when they were digging bomb shelters. But Mithraism refused to include women. Christianity had a couple of advantages, the Emperor mother was an earlier convert to Christianity, as were many of elite Roman women. These women were attracted to Christianity, because of piety of the poor (and they were poor) and because the early Christians would never renounce their religion even on pain of death.
    The reason the Catholic church is set up the way that it is (Pope, Cardinals, Bishops, down to the local priests) because it is patterned the same way as the Roman Empire set up their government. Constantine eventually moved his capital, the Eastern Empire, and there was a second government in Rome, the Western Empire. The Eastern Empire survived the fall of the Roman Empire and the church in the east became the Greek Orthodox Church, from that came the Russian Orthodox Church.
    And of course you know the story of Martin Luther, but their were others before him that broke away from the church to form protestant churches and other since. Church history is fascinating stuff.
    Poolman, the Eucharist didn’t do it for you after you experienced LSD, huh?

  255. Romney also had a fund raiser in London, I think, he could legally only raise money from American expatriates, not Brits or Israelis. Some Israelis have dual citizenship, so there is that.

  256. Careful Rutherford, Emily might not label herself a liberal. She said, she preferred John Huntsman during the primaries, but then again, had he succeeded, I planned to hear him out before I committed my own vote. The man is brilliant, I hope we haven’t seen the last of him in public life.

  257. Poolman, the Eucharist didn’t do it for you after you experienced LSD, huh?

    LOL. I had left Catholicism at the age of 14, though I did attend mass with my relatives when visiting. I’m not one for religious ritual and symbolism.

    I do take communion where I attend ‘church’ now.

  258. I’m so glad the Olympics are done and no ‘terrorist’ event happened during them. I am somewhat surprised but very grateful.

    Newt, Rutherford was also excited about Huntsman.

  259. Sorry Gorilla, I just saw your post, you are right, I don’t think any of us are trying to convert anyone though. Unless Poolman wants us all to try LSD.

  260. LOL. I’ve only had a few experiences with LSD, all were in my 20s. They were interesting, to say the least. But no, I don’t recommend it. Now, psilocybin, that might be different. Definitely illuminating…

  261. General Mission Goals of the USCCB

    To act collaboratively and consistently on vital issues confronting the Church and society
    To foster communion with the Church in other nations, within the Church universal, under the leadership of its supreme pastor, the Roman Pontiff
    To offer appropriate assistance to each bishop in fulfilling his particular ministry in the local Church”

    Hmmm. Doesn’t sound like the Great Commission to me. Don’t see the word Jesus in that at all. So what is it exactly that is serving the requests of “Christ” as in Christian, Thor? Matter of fact, why is it the ‘Roman Pontiff’ just took them to task for liberal, antithetical dogma?

    Reads a lot more like the doctrine of Michael Louis Pfleger – the Obama shill.

  262. Thanks for the little history lesson Newt or no newt. As I think you imply, the barbarians who invaded Rome were not as barbaric as the Romans wrote. They respected the Roman system and wanted to recreate what they had essentially destroyed.

    According to ? Perene, a French historian, Western Rome did not die after Aleric the Goth and others took down the empire. Enclaves carried the civilizatiaon for generations.

    Later, the Holy Roman Empire sought to recreate the old order.

    Scientists say dinosaurs live on in birds. If so, the Roman Empire continues through the Church.

    I’ve never taken LSD or any other drug. I did chug alug a pint of Guinesse in a pub one time.

  263. Yes, I believe Romney and Obama are raising money from expatriots. However, the Tea Party is establishing cells in the UK.

  264. Gorilla, our discussion of Christianity is necessary this time. This is the new method of recruit by secular libs first played in in 2008 pretty successfully too – play social justice disciple, part Christian, part Obamessiah. When Obama’s policies have failed miserably, revert back to Obama being great disciple of Jesus. 😉 I think what Obama truly is, is great disciple of Louie Farrakhan and Jeremiah Wright.

    Many weak minds were fooled in 2008. I’m not going to let it happen this time if I can help it. Don’t kid yourself, Gorilla. There are more nominal Christians, and I used the word “nominal” incredibly liberally here (no pun intended), who call themselves Christian that are more aligned with Obama than they are Christ. Obama can’t possibly win the election without them. Sometime soon, when these lefties can’t pin Romney with some egregious personal behavior, I fully expect the Mormon thrashing to start. Just not yet – but when you see it, you’ll know Leftists have come full circle and total desperation has set in.

    Newt is even more clueless about the history of the church than she is good polling. But she’s fabulous as mimicking lib religious doctrine. Same story, same bunch of malarkey. Jesus was a community activist, or something like that. Like Obama. 🙄

    I always have to giggle at these shills who like to throw up Constantine and the Roman legion as development of the Christian Church. I always want to ask these heretical types playing apostalic authority, what exactly do you think they were using as Bible 318 years before the First Council of Nicaea?

  265. Tigre, #367 and #371 = LOLOL.

    ”Again, if you were honest with yourself and us, you’d admit that this president has been more occupied with his re-election since day one than any other president any of us have ever seen.”

    Never. Rutherford is in his room spinning oldies from the summer of 2008.

    ”Mine [spouse] absolutely does not [read the comments].”

    My point in case you missed it was that mommy’s not here and wifey doesn’t care. Be yourself. I handled mine, you handle the trouble you make.

    ”Christians and Catholics…. into the Roman Colosseum!!!!”

    Lions first. 🙂

    ”Please elaborate.”

    Some other time perhaps. 🙂

  266. chips ahoy cookie (old style),

    Ahhh Poolman so good to see you qualify that. One of the greatest heartaches of my life is the change made to the Chips Ahoy formula. I loved those cookies as a kid … couldn’t be beat. Why? Because putting aside the chips, the damn cookie tasted good. Now the cookie is pretty much tasteless … like eating cardboard.

    I have yet to find a cookie that duplicates the taste I remember from my childhood. The best I’ve found so far are Pepperidge Farm Nantuckets and even they don’t completely recapture that taste I remember. 😦

  267. Hey Tex, have you already been banned from Juanita’s web site? I’m curious why you’re asking Newt to be your courier and not launching the frontal attack on your own.

  268. OK Noah time for me to jump in. You can’t claim “teach a man to fish” as a Christian concept and then throw a hissy fit when you’re proven wrong. And it was more than a distraction because if I recall the argument correctly your entire underpinning revolved around the appropriate Christian response to the poor. Your Christian response cannot be found anywhere in the Bible.

    C’mon … stop whining, man up, admit you were wrong and find some other Christian way to justify your contentment to see the poor rot. 😉

  269. I left one comment at Wattle Jeans, and the head turkey told me she would allow one and only one. 😉 So I left an “I Heart Jean…” and it never appeared.

    Not going to waste my time letting Wattle hide behind her moderating. Let her come here, and I’ll plaster the wattle to the Rutherford window for amusement.

    Won’t happen, though. Lefties are notoriously coward and cheap, our host the exception. 😉

  270. Emily, apologies … I identified you as left-leaning. I forgot about Huntsman. Would it be fair to call you a moderate? (P.S. of all the GOP candidates I liked Huntsman the most too. If HE ran against Obama I’d have had to really wrestle with myself.)

  271. Tex, I VERY much appreciate your 294. You seem to have so much more to offer people when you speak this way.

    You probably perceive that I am a lost cause, but take some heart that my spirituality is evolving. I am not lying and I don’t think I’m calling Jesus a liar. But I recognize that humans are flawed and it’s entirely possible that we misunderstand some of Jesus’ message, especially when filtered through translation, time and those that would distort the message for acquisition of power. That is why I take issue with the thought that billions of basically good souls will be cast into the lake of fire, not for actions against their fellow man, but simply because they failed to grasp the correct get-out-of-jail-free card.

    Once again. Thank you for the way you handled 294. Perhaps I will begin reading your stuff again. I have learned from you. But don’t flatter yourself, Big Guy. You are much more the test than the teacher. 🙂

    And thank you Muffy for guiding me to it (after the initial confusion).

    I will get to the other comments directly (you kids have been busy). Just didn’t want to wait to address this one.

  272. #380 is depressing as hell.

    JUST KIDDING! NOT IT’S NOT!

    Ann Coulter just skewered Sally Kohn and she (Ann) didn’t even need to be live on set to do it. FIVE SECONDS after Kohn finished ticking off the fluffy lobs of same old same old at Ryan, an audio tape of Ann is played blowing away everything Kohn just said. Plus Coulter framed it all as “this is what the left is going to say.”

    Wiped that smirk right off old Sally’s face.

  273. First of all what’s with the fund raising? You guys wanted CU, you got CU. Quit your bitching. Yes, he fund raises on the clock. What’s he suppose to do, take a leave of absence?

    Would you be surprised if we walked out of the SALT talks and the Russians suddenly started building more warheads?

  274. “So what is it exactly that is serving the requests of “Christ” as in Christian, Thor?” – Tex

    Sigh. Well, here I go.

    Tex, did you miss the first part?

    “STATEMENT OF WORK
    I. GOALS AND RESPONSIBILITIES
    The Gospel of Christ and the teachings of his Church guide the work of the USCCB. The work of the Conference is rooted in three general mission goals and organized into three key areas of responsibility.

  275. We are planning to offer our authors ready-made Websites, I just spent three days studying Dreamweaver and CSS

    PF you can actually create some very powerful web sites with WordPress.org (not .com) without knowing Dreamweaver, etc. Of course knowing those products can’t hurt either.

    You’ll be getting a “professional” communication from me shortly. I just haven’t gotten round to it yet.

  276. A gun for R and his BFF Thor:

    A friend of mine was shot in the back of the head by his wife, basically leaving their special needs son an orphan. Not that funny.

  277. Who’s your daddy?

    Obama is leading in campaign contributions. I thought the MSM was claiming he was behind. Liars.

    Rmoney’s top contributors:

    1 Goldman Sachs $636,080
    2 JPMorgan Chase & Co $502,874
    3 Morgan Stanley $476,300
    4 Bank of America $465,850
    5 Credit Suisse Group $421,310

    http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/

    I’ve been reviewing Paul Ryan’s voting record. Let’s just say he damn sure isn’t Tea Party, which, for some reason I though he was. He liked the bank bailouts, Patriot Act, and likes a huge MIC. He also votes for everything Israel wants. He’s like a mini Rmoney.

    http://votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/26344/

  278. Let me define my concept of First World poor.

    Raji I had missed this comment, maybe because it got spammed.

    I think that is a characterization of the Reagan “welfare queen”. I refuse to believe it applies to the majority of the poor. It’s a propaganda image used to poison people against social programs and conservatives have used it effectively for decades.

    When I talk about helping the poor I’m talking about folks who cannot afford to pay the utility bills, nor the cable bill, nor the wireless bill, etc etc.

  279. “I’ve been reviewing Paul Ryan’s voting record. Let’s just say he damn sure isn’t Tea Party, which, for some reason I though he was.” Actually Ryan qualifies as a supply sider.

  280. Yeah, watch out Thor. Some here are in the habit of dredging up everything you ever reveal here and elsewhere to try to malign you. Alinsky-ish.

    Of course, generally they have to put a spin on it to make it degrading.

    Okay, back out into the heat. Check back later.

  281. Obama had held 104 fundraisers by March 6th this year, compared to 94 held by Presidents Carter, Ronald Reagan, George Bush Snr, Bill Clinton and George W. Bush combined.

    That contradicts a stat posted by another Obama-hater earlier in the thread who said Bush “Jr” had gone to 88 fundraisers by this time in his reelection bid.

    I wish you guys could agree on which stats to beat Obama over the head with … unless of course all the stats are lies … which I wouldn’t put above the conservative lie-machine.

    Kinda reminds me of when folks like McCarthy and Allen West pull the number of US gov’t Communists out of their ass. 🙂

  282. Now, psilocybin, that might be different. Definitely illuminating…

    I’m a psilocybin pony
    You’re a flick fandango phoney

    Greg Hawkes is the personification of rock and roll geek. 🙂

  283. I’ve never taken LSD or any other drug.

    Me neither James. Kinda glad to see you say that … sometimes I feel a bit weird that I’ve never partaken of anything, even pot.

  284. R @397 “It’s a propaganda image”

    I truly wish that was the case but if you cruise through the neighborhoods it’s more fact than fiction. Since I don’t watch TV my opinions are formed from viewing the environment so maybe I have a different take than others.

  285. Jesus was a community activist

    I think the odds of Jesus having been a community activist are a lot higher than the odds of his being a semi-retired fix it man, which would make him more in your image than Obama’s. 😉

  286. Rutherford, you are really a kind soul. The subject matter in The Onion was sicko but the slam on campaign ads was funny but then The Onion is always sick humor isn’t it?

  287. Alfie @345 my sentiments exactly. Before Ted Kennedy died he spoke these same thoughts.

    @349 The link doesn’t work

    Alfie @ 343 good article. In my opinion, the downfall started when suspension replaced discipline in the schools.

    “The school system has sent its staff to $350,000 worth of “cultural-proficiency” training, where they learned to “examine the presence and role of ‘Whiteness.’ ” The district spent another $2 million or so to implement an anti-suspension behavioral-modification program embraced by the Obama administration.”

    What a waste of money!

  288. A friend of mine was shot in the back of the head by his wife, basically leaving their special needs son an orphan.

    Reality trumps humor every time. My condolences Thor.

  289. “Tex, Ryan voted against Boles/Simpson. So much for your video.” – R

    I kind of liked the video. It’s not like he is endorsing Romney for President. But he is recognizing that there are people on both sides of the aisle with ideas that could help this country. It’s a shame both sides can’t do this more often.

    James’ back yard is turning into a sea of brown cattails and Boehner can’t even get a farm bill to the floor. He got enough votes to pass an emergency extension, but Reid won’t pick it up because he already got the version passed that he wanted. Now they’re both back home raising money, begging for votes and blaming the other guy. Meanwhile, no relief for the heartland as it turns into a dust bowl. That’s not how it’s suppose to work people. They work for US.

  290. “Muffy sorry to let you in on this but Ann has zero credibility.”

    That changes nothing about my comment, Zero.

    You better yank Debbie Fudd offstage pretty quick too. She’s single-handedly destroying whatever credibility you imagine the party leaders have left.

  291. I guess I’ll slide this in while the thread is still current –

    Bishop: Conservatives may ‘cop-opt’ HHS lawsuits for ‘anti-Obama crusade’

    http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/bishop-conservatives-may-cop-opt-hhs-lawsuits-for-anti-obama-crusade

    STOCKTON, CALIFORNIA, May 24, 2012, (LifeSiteNews.com) – A California-based bishop is concerned that the lawsuits to overturn the HHS mandate filed by the leading dioceses and institutions of his Church may be used to underscore political criticism of the Obama administration.

    Bishop Stephen Blaire of Stockton told America magazine that, while the bishops he knows in California “are strong supporters” of these religious liberty lawsuits, “I think there are different groups that are trying to co-opt this and make it into political issue.”
    Forces “very far to the Right” may be tempted to make the legal challenge a part of “an anti-Obama campaign,” he said.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/under-god/post/california-catholic-bishop-church-getting-co-opted-by-political-right/2012/05/23/gJQAWYzKlU_blog.html?wprss=rss_on-faith

    Just some insight into Bishop Blaire.

  292. “But he is recognizing that there are people on both sides of the aisle with ideas that could help this country. It’s a shame both sides can’t do this more often.”

    I agree. Wait until you hear the exchange between Clinton (Bill) and Ryan.

  293. That changes nothing about my comment, Zero.

    I beg to differ. Whenever anyone quotes Ann Coulter they must keep in mind that whatever Ann says is designed to stir sh*t at that moment. It means nothing in the long run. Ann exists to entertain herself and I admit, in doing so, she entertains the rest of us too.

  294. “I beg to differ.”

    Oh, you would. Coulter accurately predicted what the left would say and the audio tape of her doing it was played immediately following Sally Kohn practically word for word. Sally about slid under the table in shame.

    If Maddow would have done it you’d be popping…well, you’d be impressed.

    As you should be 🙂

  295. Somewhere the phrase “and they matched” fell out of my brain. I guess it goes between “Kohn” and “practically.”

  296. OK Noah time for me to jump in. You can’t claim “teach a man to fish” as a Christian concept and then throw a hissy fit when you’re proven wrong. And it was more than a distraction because if I recall the argument correctly your entire underpinning revolved around the appropriate Christian response to the poor. Your Christian response cannot be found anywhere in the Bible.

    First question R. How does this statement change the course of the conversation if it is indeed what you 3 claim it is and it is a misstatement or a mistake? How is it relevant to the topic to be spending this much time on it?

    Second. I chose the company I keep carefully. I chose to keep those that hold my values close to me. My friends tend to be fellow church goers, so I have to remember some of the phrases I use around people that have no moral values or consideration for their fellow man are not as clearly understood as those I associate with out in the real world. That said…

    When I say my Bible, it has two meanings, at least. Typically when I say my Bible says, if I mean it precisely says, I will quote the scripture. The other meaning is that, for us, living the Christian lifestyle, my Bible says is a reference to how we live and conduct our lives. It is our interpretation of the Bible as it applies to our every day lives. Based on lessons in the Bible, my Bible tells me to do this, or act this way, if you get my meaning. That said…

    This seems to me to be more of a case to have a gottcha moment, and if the need is so all consuming for you three, and you need to insist that your interpretation is the only possible one, then I was wrong.

    I’ll check on posts further down R for responses to my previous questions.

  297. If you chose to engage me on something I have posted and I respond you should have the courtesy of responding back when asked a question, just sayin. That said..here is a recap.

    431 is just above, read and go from there.

    353, which is now 354 stated the following (should be noted this has all been fact checked and the Messiah administration has not refuted it.)

    Doherty, who has compiled statistics about presidential travel and fundraising going back to President Jimmy Carter in 1977, found that Obama had held 104 fundraisers by March 6th this year, compared to 94 held by Presidents Carter, Ronald Reagan, George Bush Snr, Bill Clinton and George W. Bush combined.

    Since then, Obama has held another 20 fundraisers, bringing his total to 124. Carter held four re-election fundraisers in the 1980 campaign, Reagan zero in 1984, Bush Snr 19 in 1992, Clinton 14 in 1996 and Bush Jnr 57 in 2004.

    While the Obama’s campaign activities in office have been largely in line with historical trends, he is especially vulnerable to criticism because in 2008 he promised to change how politics works and to curb links with special interests.

    Vowing in 2008 to ‘launch the most sweeping ethics reform in US history’ Obama said that if elected he would ‘make government more open, more accountable and more responsive to the problems of the American people’.

    In his State of the Union speech in January, Obama bemoaned the ‘corrosive influence of money in politics’. The following month, he reversed course and announced he was allowing cabinet members and top advisors to speak at big money events for so-called super PACs – unaccountable outside groups raising money for his re-election.

    During the 2008 election, Obama abandoned a pledge to opt for public funding of his campaign, instead opting to raise an unlimited amount privately. He then raised and spent approximately $730million, almost double the campaign funds of Senator John McCain, his Republican opponent.

    It is worth noting this is an old article and I am sure the number of fundraisers he has done is much much higher.

    Then in 131 the part I am interested in your take on is the following.

    Despite what this dishonest shit wrote, not every poor person, not even most poor people, are victims. Your counterparts in my town Rutherford, make life choices. They choose to drive a new car and live in a piece of shit house, in a piece of shit neighborhood, and by default make their kids go to substandard schools. They perpetuate their conditions by their actions, and you Leftist prey on them by offering welfare and other social programs which reinforces their bad choices by allowing them just enough to live off of to get by. Their children see this, because that is all they see, and do what mom and dad did. Are there exceptions. Sure. Are some victims? Absolutely. But to suggest as you do that this is the norm is a lie.

    Do you think this is fundamentally true or false and why? Take your time considering and responding, I am happy to post regular reminders.

  298. Well I guess the other options is that I will answer on your behalf and if you do not refute what I think then I will take it as you agree and use it as fact for future use. I will get to work on your responses.

  299. I think in 431 Rutherford, that you chose not to respond because you made a statement based on something that you had very little first hand knowledge of. Having read my statement, you found that I had knocked your dick in the dirt so bad you decided a strategic retreat was in order. You realized the point the 3 of you were chasing after was so off topic and so irrelevant to the conversation that it made you all look like the horses ass you were trying to pin on me. Integrity and honesty is not for everyone. Noted.

    In 353, which is now 354, having discovered you were indeed wrong about your Messiah and his campaign activities, again decided a strategic retreat was in order and hoped by creating a flurry of posts would get people to forget you had posted falsehoods and thereby escape having to take responsibility for your uneducated position. Integrity check failed.

    Now on to 131.
    I think it is safe to assume that you have sold out so completely to your Democratic masters (is that irony?) that you still buy into the notion that welfare causes no harm, and that the government is only here to help. You don’t believe that people are responsible for the choices that they make, and that they are ALL victims of their circumstances that only Republicans could have placed them in. You then use this for your reason why in November, you could never vote for the white guy, and that no matter what your Messiah does, NO MATTER WHAT, the black man has your vote.

    I appreciate your time in these matters R.

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