What Goes Through the Mind of a Gunman?

All it took was Mitt Romney’s Chevy Chase inspired European vacation to knock the Aurora massacre out of the headlines. Even I could not have predicted just how quickly we would all “move on”. A week or so ago, my friend and political polar opposite Blackiswhite Imperial Consigliere (I call him BiW for short) wrote a blog post about a discussion he had with his son concerning gun control. I responded to the post in a regrettably over the top manner and a debate ensued between me and his loyal readership. The one thought that lingered with me after all the rhetoric was tossed back and forth was, what goes through the mind of a gunman?

When I say gunman, I do not mean Mark David Chapman, Jared Loughner or James Holmes. I do not mean George Zimmerman. I do not even mean a policeman or a soldier. In fact, I don’t even mean anyone who has ever actually fired a gun at someone. I’m thinking about the man or woman who carries a gun for protection. I know there are women who carry mace in their purse in case they are attacked. To my mind, they live with a certain constant state of fear. I envision the gun carrier the same way. Many of the commenters on BiW’s blog said they wanted to be prepared. Prepared for what? Do they really walk the streets on alert every minute for a potential attacker? Mind you, not just your run of the mill mugger but someone against whom you’re ready to use lethal force.

I’ve noodled about this in my noggin for the past week or so and I just can’t wrap my head around it. What mental state would I have to be in to be walking around town with a loaded gun strapped to me? What level of paranoia would have to pervade my being? When would the gun become second nature? Once it became second nature, would I even be prepared to use it if the need arose?

This is the rare entry my friends where I have no conclusions. I’m not going to bother to write a “gun control” piece here because it is clear to me guns are religion in this country and arguing about God is fruitless. So I am just leaving it up to you, my readers. Post in the comments section if you have a gun. How do you feel when you carry it? Were you nervous when you first started carrying a gun with you? How does your spouse feel about your having a gun?

Forget the gun control debate. I’d like to know what is going through your mind.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

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680 thoughts on “What Goes Through the Mind of a Gunman?

  1. I don’t think any of us conceal. I could be wrong. I’m toying with the idea when I make bullion purchases. If you drive through the hood, it’s good to carry. My brother packed when we took our kids to see Santa at the Detroit Zoo. I thought that was kind funny. He said Santas attract crazies.

  2. In some ways R, I don’t think you appreaciate a normal role most men have as protectors, becuase of your disability. Once you wrap your mind around that notion, owning a gun is logical conclusion, if a guy feels comfortable with it. Why does the U.S. own nukes? Odds are there will be no invasion. I see it as my family’s nuclear weapon. Tread on us and its 000 federal 410 buck shot or bird shot followed by an aluminum bat filled with concrete.

  3. “In some ways R, I don’t think you appreaciate a normal role most men have as protectors, becuase of your disability.” – DR

    Did his balls get cut off in an industrial accident? Any guy with a family (minus complete loons) wants to protect his kids and wife. That is exactly why I DON’T allow guns in my house.

  4. LOL packing to visit Santa is hilarious.

    As I’ve said elsewhere I think my disability precludes me from firing a gun although the boys over BiW’s gave me some good tips on light weight guns with comparatively little kick-back.

    The US owning a nuke is a bad analogy because the folks controlling them are trained up the wazoo .. it’s their job. Still I get your point about the need to protect one’s family. Still I want to know what mental adjustments an average person makes when he carries a gun. Is it second nature because he saw guns as a kid with his Dad? After a while surely he forgets he’s even carrying. I wear leg braces. I don’t think at every moment that I’m walking around “hey I’m wearing leg braces”. So when the gun carrier gets so used to it that he forgets he even is carrying how does he get into defense mode quickly when the need arises?

    A policeman pursuing a criminal never “forgets” he has a gun.

    Regarding comment 3 …. hey I fully admit it I love a gun control debate but that is REALLY not the intent of this post. I want to understand the culture and the mindset that makes carrying a gun ok with certain people.

    Your comments about protecting the family are a valuable contribution to the discussion.

  5. Comment 8 referred to 5 by the way.

    As for 7, I wonder how much of gun ownership is fueled by macho swagger and the American image of a “real man”. Hard to get any gun owner to admit to that of course.

  6. At present I am without a firearm. I have through the majority of my life had a weapon(s) including firearms in my possession bordering on the routine basis.
    I started early as many young American males do in coming to an understanding,either right or wrong that a means to defend oneself was a need. In many locales this is true and it was very true for me. Growing up in economic conditions my children will never know there was more than a bit of rough and tumble available. Petty theft seems like a silly thing to swing a bat,golf club or nunchuck at,but then I’d ask the reader to appreciate that when the petty item amounts to a precious item secondary to your own personal lot in life,you may then appreciate that one will swing for the fences. In the neighborhood streets I grew up on there were those that wanted your stuff no matter how piddly it was. Sometimes you take stock in its worth and sometimes it was worth a beating,either gotten or given.
    As for firearms I always had what I felt was a healthy respect for them. Don’t use them offensively. Don’t look for trouble because you are carrying. When trouble finds you diplomacy still prevailed. When failure occurred draw with the full acceptance to fire.
    In the civilian world I’ve drawn a firearm twice and disarmed a person once and then turned the piece on them.
    The three times in total I did not discharge the weapon. The two incidents whence the piece was mine neither were legal. Both cases years apart resulted from being in the wrong place with the right/wrong people. The drawn gun was the exclamation point on my statement that I’m leaving,everything is cool,nobody wants this to go where its sliding.
    These times I was caught up in the now. One of the times was post my time in the Army so that one was gonna die. The other hanging with kids with Chinatown connections,false bravado bs stuff. probably hit a wall or floor,I don’t know.
    As for the disarm incident. I was on a call during my EMS days and someone pulled a .38. I was hard core and street wise. I grabbed the person twisting their arm inwards to their chest. They let go. Then the gun went to their head as I told them to hit the “@$king floor !”. Then PD rolled in and wrapped the dude up. Bad people call 911 all the time and sometimes they decide you shouldn’t have showed up. I’m glad the cops showed.I think the guy with the 38 was too.
    So there is the most sharing I’ve done in the e world in a long time (perhaps evah) hope it helps.

  7. I don’t remember if it was a video Muffy posted on the last thread or a related one I clicked on … but Piers Morgan was interviewing Romney and he was discussing guns in America. Piers could not understand how the number of guns in this country could possibly be considered coincidental to the level of gun violence. Romney kept citing the 2nd Amendment.

    Partly due to that 2nd Amendment, gun ownership in America, I suspect is deeply cultural … almost religious. Notice how so many on the right quote the Constitution with the same literal fervor that they quote the Bible.

  8. Concealing a weapon sucks because you have to be uber responsible. Always have to take the high road. Always. As for Rutherford, of course he wants to protect his family. But he can’t. And he has always been the protected, not the protecter.

    I lived in places where you would be fucking nuts not to own a gun. Nuts! I lived in a crack infested apartment complex where I would take a gun in the bathroom every shower becuase I was cornered. Did I live in fear? Fuck yeah I did!

  9. There is a ton of gun swagger. To be honest, I don’t care for the gun freak crowd very much. They create a lot of their own problems. I already mentioned the fake grenades I saw selling at the gun show. The irresponsibility of that is mind blowing. I saw bumper stickers threatening death to Muslims if they get to close. You know what was sellijg like hot cakes? “Zombie Rounds”. Lethal ammo that is marketed in festive halloween esque boxes. It disgusted me. Taking fantasy shit and merging it with deadly ammo, plays right in the mindset of The Fauxer. It’s my opinion that many of the conceal guys have little dicks….or maybe bruised ones. 😥

    As I’ve mentioned what feels like a hundred times, had my family not been armed in 67, I probably wouldn’t exist. Guys like Thor live in situations where the risk of having a gun really might out weigh the risk of not having one. Sadly, they take this haughty attitude that everyone is in the same boat. Of course, I’m guessing guys like Thor don’t hunt.

  10. Damn Alhie. That’s some hard core shit. I’ve never drawn a gun on anyone. Been flashed a gun about a half dozen times. And once, on a basketball court, had a gun put to my head. My buddy got it worse. He had to get on his knees and they put it into his mouth. I ran home and left him there. Still feel weird about that to this day. We couldn’t tell the police becuase my buddy’s dad was in a well known biker gang and we were afraid of what he would do. This guys Dad would show up all drunk and play baseball with us. Except, he would peg us with the ball, as if we were playing wiffle ball. Dude was crazy!

  11. No guns here. I don’t own guns. I don’t fear them. I have handled several and was quite accurate at target practice with a rifle in my youth. I have known several people that have been accidentally shot over the years. I know folks that have been shot due to road rage. There are times on the road I am grateful I did not have a weapon, otherwise I probably would have at least brandished it.

    I have friends that carry, and both my daughter’s husbands are into weapons.

    I went through a period of fear while out walking in public. I would play through scenerios of gun encounters and subsequent reactions in my head. I have felt there was somebody looking through a scope at me. There actually was a person in the neighborhood that did just that, and it really bothered me. I remember walking around our park at night and having a laser bead show up on me and my wife. What began as fear turned to anger.

    Now, I figure if someone desires to take me out, they have multiple options. Guns are only one. I refuse to live in fear. Life is short and all about risk. Keep your affairs in order and be ready for anything. Life comes at you from all directions and attacks are not always evident.

    A gun can be a vice as well as a tool.

    My goal has been to offload as much baggage on this journey as I can before I reach my destination. My life is not my own.

  12. Gun control issue is over with – the police can’t protect us, so we protect ourselves. I understand Thor’s concern. My wife feels the same way.

    The question I want answered and the far more pressing one is why is James Holmes not in front of a jury right now?

  13. The question I want answered and the far more pressing one is why is James Holmes not in front of a jury right now?

    There are plenty of researchers claiming the James Holmes in court is not the same person as the James Holmes accused of this massacre. There has been some good detective work on this case and Scott Creighton (willyloman) has gotten some well-deserved recognition.

    There is a good reason this case was sealed so soon from the public. Don’t expect the truth from the media.

  14. I carry for one reason. I cannot control anyone but me. I do the best I can to keep my family in line and on the straight and narrow, but even then it boils down to the fact my actions are the only ones I can absolutely have control of.

    I am not a small guy, but I am no giant either, and I can hold my own in a scuffle. Facts are, if one or more persons decide to hurt me or mine, or take my things, I am not going to risk the person might be stronger/faster/better than me and cause harm to my family. This puts the advantage back in my hands and gives me the ability to deal with bad situations in a way that should give me the more favorable outcome.

    It has nothing to do with fear or ego, it is the desire to be prepared. So long as I act responsibly I should be allowed to conceal and carry. I do hunt about every other year but that is a different topic.

  15. Notice how so many on the right quote the Constitution with the same literal fervor that they quote the Bible.

    In regards to their place and meaning, I hold them in equal regard. The Constitution is the Bible for this country.

  16. We own six rifles and shot guns and a pistol I inherited from my father and grandfather. My wife took training and is registered to carry. Neither of us carries a weapon, because we don’t need to.

    They are tools to protect us from possibly rabid animals etc

    My brother-in law and I were surrounded by five young men who thought they were tougher than we. While my brother in law stood by with wide eyes, I traded insults with them until they left us alone. I didn’t need a gun. I had a ball point pen, and I knew how to use it. Its not that I was so tough: they were Dutch for pete’s sake.

  17. It’s my opinion that many of the conceal guys have little dicks….or maybe bruised ones. 😥

    I don’t recall whether I mentioned this here or at BiW’s but I’m always amazed that the gun advocates I see on TV look like Bernie Goetz nerds … the guys who got the crap beat out of them in elementary school. I swear there is some level of compensation going on with those types.

  18. Alfie’s account makes me think that some folks just don’t have the fear factor (regarding carrying the gun) that others do. If your upbringing (such as where you grew up) makes gun ownership the norm you’re not going to bring the same anxieties to it that another person (such as me) might bring to it.

  19. I do the best I can to keep my family in line

    Noah, I’m sorry dude but that line coming right after you saying you carry kinda made me chuckle. I picture your waving the gun at the kids “Eat your spinach!!!”

    I’m just messing with you. Where did you learn to shoot? Why are you confident that in the heat of the moment you’ll be composed enough to handle the situation to your best advantage?

  20. In regards to their place and meaning, I hold them in equal regard. The Constitution is the Bible for this country.

    And there you have it. Asked and answered.

  21. Rutherford, you persist in this notion that the average gun owner is somehow less “trained” in the use of their firearm than the average cop.

    Most of the gun owners I know a consciencious, responsible people, who have had a fair amount of training in the use of a firearm, whether in their families, the military, and or an official firearms safety course. After that, it is a matter of regular or semi-regular practice in its use, so you know what it will do and to gain proficiency with it. Then it becomes something that they don’t “forget” about, anymore than the LEO who qualifies at the range annual does.

    Are there some yabos who don’t fit this mold? Sure. But I also know a few LEOs who are much the same way…

  22. As for 7, I wonder how much of gun ownership is fueled by macho swagger and the American image of a “real man”. Hard to get any gun owner to admit to that of course.” – R

    Because its bullshit. I have concealed carry and do on occasion and gasp, my dicks just fine. I was raised around guns, getting my first at 11. I have over two dozen guns, half a dozen of which are black powder, and 90% of which are used for hunting.

    I have 6 hammers too AND a air nail gun. Point?

    Guns are tools, just like butter knifes, spoons, screwdrivers and hammers. In fact, more crimes are committed with screwdrivers than probably any other tool. Point? Shall we outlaw or force register screwdrivers? More people are killed with cars than anything else, shall we outlaw them too?

    Why carry? Because as the old saying goes, cops are minutes away when you have seconds to act. There is a lot of truth in that. Maybe its the Boy Scout in me: be prepared.

    I took a friend (who is black, Oh my God is it so!!!) of mine to the range a few days ago and he had a fantastic time. He also commented that he was terrified up until we started shooting, and then – to his complete surprise- when he realized that the gun wasn’t going to jump out of his hands and shoot him, he relaxed and recognized that this is a tool.

    R, if you want to talk about guns, go hold a gun first. Shoot a gun. Spend some time with it, and you’ll find that there are probably no pentagrams engraved anywhere. That 666 is nowhere to be found. A goats head didn’t show up in the box. Guns are not evil.

    You want to know what’s in the mind of a gunman? Responsibility. Accountability. Respect. Finality. We respect that guns can be dangerous. So is the flight line on an aircraft carrier, or working the power lines, etc. What goes through a gunman’s mind? Thoughts, which is a novel idea anymore. When I carry or handle a gun, I think far more about my actions than I probably do otherwise. Why?

    Responsibility. Accountability. Respect. Finality.

    Maybe more people should think like a gunman….

  23. I’m just messing with you. Where did you learn to shoot? Why are you confident that in the heat of the moment you’ll be composed enough to handle the situation to your best advantage?

    I come from a big military family. My uncle was a master-chief in the navy so we got ammo Very very cheap. We would go out 2 or 3 times a month as a family and they taught gun safety and we shot the hell out of trunk/hood lids and appliances at a local scrap yard.

    I am not militant. I am not part of a militia, but conservatively I probably have about 30,000 rounds of ammo of various types. When my great uncle passed away I inherited his reloading equipment. My father in law reloads as well. I have a few more guns than James but not many more. My favorite being a 44 with a 6″ and 9″ barrel.

    Having a gun does not guarantee I will win. As for why it gives an advantage, because I will never let on that I have it, until I have drawn and used it. As I can be charged with a crime just for drawing my weapon, I would not ever lead on that I even had it until such time as I deemed it absolutely necessary. I would never use it as a warning to fend someone off. I would draw and shoot.

    A cop once told me, that if you ever have to draw your weapon and shoot someone, that I was to make sure to finish the job, dead men tell no tales. To often it is one persons word against another and he saw people he believed to have a justifiable reason to defend themselves get put into prison. In the years I have carried, I have never drawn my weapon, though I came close once. If I do, a life will end. I wont wound or fire a warning shot.

  24. BiW I fully confess to some naivete on this but I have a few simple questions for you:

    1. Is it not a requirement that law enforcement officers be trained in fire arm usage and re-qualify on a regular basis (annually)?

    2. Is it true that the average gun owner has NO requirement to be trained and NO requirement to periodically prove his skill with the firearm (i.e. be re-certified).

    3. In fact, is it not true that the requirements for driving an automobile are more stringent than the requirements for gun ownership and usage?

  25. A cop once told me, that if you ever have to draw your weapon and shoot someone, that I was to make sure to finish the job, dead men tell no tales.

    Let’s spell out this scenario because I really want to understand what this cop was saying.

    You shoot in self defense and wound the attacker. You are then to shoot the now helpless attacker in the head to make sure “he tells no tales”? Is that really what the cop was advocating? Or was he simply saying aim to kill the first time and if you only wound, pray the courts believe you.

  26. 1. Is it not a requirement that law enforcement officers be trained in fire arm usage and re-qualify on a regular basis (annually)?

    I believe I already said that. However, I know a fair number of LEOs who will tell you that qualifying and training are NOT the same thing, as qualifying is generally about meeting a minimum measure of marksmanship.

    2. Is it true that the average gun owner has NO requirement to be trained and NO requirement to periodically prove his skill with the firearm (i.e. be re-certified).

    I’m not aware of any such restriction anywhere. However, the ones who own not just for protection, but for hunting will frequently have prove that they have gone through a firearms safety course to get a license to hunt, especially under a certain age. And the annual use for this purpose usually motivates them to be “skilled” in the use of their firearm.

    3. In fact, is it not true that the requirements for driving an automobile are more stringent than the requirements for gun ownership and usage?

    Why do you continually assume that the state can impose such restrictions on the exercise of a RIGHT? And why do you continue to confuse the exercise of a RIGHT with the exercise of a PRIVILEGE, which the state can lawfully set any number of conditions on?

    I know that your thoughtleaders at MSNDNC have a hard-on for the notion that only people who are properly trained and licensed by the state should be able to own and use firearms, but the fact is that the reason that LEOs are “trained” is as much about liability questions for their employers as it is about proficiency, and proficiency is not a basis to restrict the lawful exercise of the right of gun ownership. Period. It simply isn’t negotiable, and frankly, given the number of deaths that occur annually from the use of automobiles, it kind of turns your implied argument on its head anyway.

  27. I hear Obama claim Romney has mislead the people with his manipulation of the system for personal and financial gain, care to explain why this is different?!?!?

  28. James “They are tools to protect us from possibly rabid animals etc”

    James, I’m pretty good with a shovel 😉

    I personally will not have a gun because I know deep down I could not fire it. I grew up with guys in the family and friends who have guns. I have nothing against responsible gun ownership and am very happy that friends around me have guns. They have often tried to get me to learn how to shoot and have supplied me with guns and ammunition. In fact I have a gun in the house right now. Now guys don’t laugh but I store the gun under the stairs and have a sock on top of it so no bugs can crawl down it and jamb it. The reason I have the gun is because of a rabid animal that I had to kill with a shovel coming at me. I think that’s the only time I had wished I did have a gun so my male friends accommodated me and supplied me with a gun. I figure that when I need it one of my male friends can come over and use it but since it hasn’t been fired in over a year I seriously doubt they will want to use it and they all carry anyway.

    Just thought I would add the female version of why I don’t carry to the conversation

  29. Ragi, I agree about the shovel. A big rock will kill too. But some animals like coyotes are a bit large for shovels. Even skunks may be able to avoid a shovel for a quick pass.

    We don’t have a loaded gun handy because I know deep down I WOULD fire it with relish. You make a good point. Unless a person is willing and able to fire immediatly after determining a real danger, displaying a gun may be more dangerous to the attackee than no gun. IF you panic, you may kill an innocent.

    It is easy to you to say you will shoot someone immediately, but the actuality is different from imagionation. The average person must cross a wide psychological barrior. If trip is too slow, trouble comes.

    A neighbor witnessed a drug delivery and one of the men shot twice at knee level to let him know what they could do. They warned him not to tell or they would return to kill him. He told the sherrif. He was told to carry a weapon because his home was so isolated no one could help him in time.

    A Dentist at Ellsworth AFG heard someone attempting to break in through his front door. He hid behind his couch and aimed a 30.06 at the door. The would be burglar gave up.

    We asked if he really would have shot. “Twice” he said. “Then, I would have dragged the body into the living room.”

  30. I’ve only shot animals and targets, so I don’t know the emotions associated with killing a person with a bullet.

    However, strangulation was one of the most satisfying feelings of my life. maybe because it was in self defense and because of what led up to it.

    A fire extinguisher makes a good weapon too, maybe better than a gun at close range. It will disable an attacking animal quickley.

    An article “Why Men Love War” describes how people can adapt to the pleasure of killing and experiencing danger.

  31. Raji, what kind of animal was it? I can’t believe how many people have rabid animal attack stories. That would be messed up. I had two semi unfriendly pit bulls suround me and the baby two summers ago. If I was carrying, I would have shot them both, although they weren’t being necessarily agressive. I crossed the street with the stroller and they didn’t follow. Wonder if I would have gone to jail? Pit Bulls are quite a threat.

  32. While it may sound like a lot of ammo, about 25,000 of it is in 9mm and .22 ammo.

    This ought to get most people’s goat. Before we start worrying about taxing people more, lets try and fixed this messed up shyt.

  33. What seems different to me about James Holmes, is he obviously did not want his life ended that horrible night. Other mass murders seemed welcome their own death, either at their own hand or when they are shot by the police, proxy suicide. It is a lot to take in, I hope there are some answers at his trial.

  34. ” don’t recall whether I mentioned this here or at BiW’s but I’m always amazed that the gun advocates I see on TV look like Bernie Goetz nerds … the guys who got the crap beat out of them in elementary school. I swear there is some level of compensation going on with those types.”

    Well, which is the chicken and which is the egg? Goetz had been attacked, mugged and hurt several times before. The general consensus was that he had that nerdy, I-can’t-defend-myself look that attracts young predators, so attack they did. Compensation? Sure. He was compensating for the fact that he was regularly getting hell beat out of him and needed to stop it.

    I cannot think of a single time a gun would have made the difference for me in a confrontation and I can think of at least five when it would have gotten me in a lot of trouble. I have a concealed carry permit, but almost never carry unless there is an escapee at large or the “terror alert” is very high. I don’t have the temperament to carry a firearm anyway, and in Virginia if you commit a crime with a gun involved, you are in for a world of hurt. There is no parole here – you get sentenced to ten years, ten you will do. I think in VA just the presence of a gun in a crime adds 5 years mandatory to the sentence.

    OTOH, I’m 6’1″ and 215#, so the predators have never picked on me like they did Goetz. If they did, I’m sure that I’d carry all the time.

  35. Well, I hope all the cabbalists/numerologists are wrong about 8/4, or 4/8 as it appears in Europe. Now that it’s here… positive happy thoughts. 😀

  36. I’m with ypu. I jaw my mouth too much to cary all the time. Plus, Im over 6’2 and weigh 250 with ugly tatoos. I also lift weights all the time and have been for a decade. Funny thing is I’m a paper tiger. Bad knees.

    When I was in my 20s my size caused conflict. I was that perfect size for some other group of morons to pit their big guy against. But, now days my look is a deterence.

  37. I had to laugh Poolman at the tractor/cop car lovefest. If I had access to a tractor at the hospital tonight, there’s at least a few doctor’s and hospital executive’s BMW, Lexus, and Porsches that would have looked much the same and a hell of a lot pricier to fix. I would have happily gone to prison with my naked ass bent towards the hospital’s direction as they hauled me off in the paddy wagon. And we wonder why people are suddenly going postal?

    My dad has now been in a hospital for 84 hours, and we are back to square one. We’ve heard from three specialists (oncologist, neurologist, surgeon) three possible separate causes: dried blood (mass maybe) from previous hemorrhaging, glial carcinoma, a possible infection of which twice my father was to have had a lumbar puncture only for nobody to show up within the promised window even with the kit laying on his bed. 😡 I understand the difficulty in determination but I don’t understand the obvious lack of coordination by the powers that be. Took three fricking days to even gain access to an MRI in supposedly one of the top 50 hospitals in America. If that is so, you can kiss your ass goodbye if you get sick. You better be in cahoots with the bureaucrats or you might find yourself laying in the hall butt naked.

    I asked this gawd awful charge nurse (and I swear I tried to be nice the first three days) if it would too much to ask if somebody could at least have the professional courtesy to contact our family if they weren’t going to be able to make it as promised so my mom could go home – she’s exhausted. Mom insists on being there, as my dad gets very agitated in this condition, and she’s the only one who can calm him during procedures.

    The charge nurse told me the doctors were under no obligation to contact the family and wasn’t real nice in telling me that. She finally pushed the wrong button, exaggerated by my not having gone to bed in 48 hours. Now my own sister, a good egg but wrong in this regard, is hacked at me when I told the nurse we’ll see if she is still of that prideful opinion come about Monday noon, when the execs return to the hospital and I’m sitting in their office to relay that information with her name attached. Wiped the smirk from Nurse Congeniality’s face, as suddenly she became at least a little more agreeable to discussion – my sister worried that my dad would now be “punished.” I asked how? They couldn’t be any less responsive than they’ve been the last four days. I literally walked out of the hospital room, disgusted that my mom and sister whined for 48 hours about a lack of response and how pissy the charge nurse is, then when I called Ms. Congeniality on her shit attitude about patient care, I’m suddenly the cause of all the problems. Seldom am I left with my mouth agape. This was one of those times.

    My daughter is on call at Anderson Medical in Houston, perhaps the finest oncology hospital in the world, and asked for me to send her the information because she is getting bent too about the response. She would get the doctors to take a quick perusal and perhaps offer a suggestion so that we might ask intelligent questions. Nope, hospital won’t grant me access. Confidential. So I asked if my mother could have access. Nope, not without power of attorney. Only my father. Gang, my father is not even cognizant of where he is at the moment. I have free access to perhaps the best oncologists on the entire planet willing and able, and because of unnamed bureaucrat, my mother married to the patient for 55 years might want to destroy my father by selling his medical information, I guess. 🙄

    The only ones worth a damn so far are a new nurse and the techs, who are a godsend.

    The entire world is suddenly stuck on stupid, my immediate family included. Fortunately, wifey has taken pity on her trouble making husband and is flying home to remedy the entire situation. Mrs. Tex has this magic touch, able to stay nice and still get her way. However, I’m afraid her oldest daughter had the unfortunate luck of inheriting daddy’s fire in the belly because she is driving home from Houston to start caring for grandpa.

    This is so ridiculous, I don’t even know how to relay the frustration. But if you read some nut went ballistic at a hospital in Tulsa, OK, and ran over about a hundred parked fine parked automobiles, you’ll know why I didn’t show up for the daily gig.

  38. Thanks for the update, Tex. Good job with Nurse Congeniality. I’m glad to hear that reinforcements are on the way. Hang tough.

  39. Re: link to the “fine crowd.”

    Charming. A picture of tolerance.

    They should stop eating fried chicken. Porkers.

  40. Guns scare me. So do knives, serial killers, rapists, gangs, snakes, spiders, a few other predators with big teeth like sharks and crocs. I’m pretty wary walking alone after dark but I’ll do it once in a while. Im pretty alert in parking garages. I avoid parking next to windowless vans. But worst of all are the woods at night. Forget that.

    That’s quite a list. Other than that I’m fearless. 🙂

    I do carry pepper spray and there’s a stun thing – i think it’s called a secret agent – under the passenger seat in my car that I can reach from the back seat. And a micro air horn thing on my key ring that you pull the handle out to set off.

    To the topic I think that if I ever found myself with a gun in my hand after a bad scare I’d shoot. im pretty aggressive when a spider sneaks up on me so i think I’d be fierce with a gun.

  41. Tex – I had a very minimal version of the same thing yesterday: my stepson has had a radial nerve palsy for several weeks, misdiagnosed by a “primary care physician,” subsequently diagnosed by his radiologist stepdad, who hadn’t touched a patient in thirty years. After finally seeing a neurologist, my son got his EMG yesterday – a rather uncomfortable procedure that involved sticking needles through the skin into various muscles and administering electrical shocks. Think Abu Ghraib.

    His appointment was at 1:00, for a procedure supposedly to last a “half hour.” We left the building 3-1/2 hours later. We only got the procedure and results explained to us after insisting upon it, with a half-hour wait while they rounded up a resident to do so.

    re: your father. HIPAA is the perfect example of the perfect bureaucratic storm: designed with the patient’s privacy in mind, it has hamstrung doctors and patients’ families alike – people who are just trying to find out about their loved-ones’ conditions – to the point that the doctors can’t do their jobs. In dealing with patients’ families, I always used my common sense and ignored HIPAA when possible. That, by the way, made me liable for Federal prison time. So be it. Assholes.

    You didn’t hear me say this: inform the suits on Monday that unless things change for the better, any further communication will be through your attorney, and that after this little saga is played out, he will be asking several very probing questions about the quality of your father’s care. Don’t elaborate any further, saying that you don’t think it appropriate until you consult with your mouthpiece.

    Your experience should improve dramatically. Don’t worry about anyone mistreating your Dad; even if they were such shits, the necessity for documenting every flatus would make that nearly impossible.

    Goddammit, they have destroyed the best profession that ever was. I am so glad to be out. It is embarrassing to admit that I ever participated in this little dance of death.

  42. I hope everything works out Tex. Its hard. All I can offer is my sympathy.

    Newt or no newt raised a good point. Most shooters want to leave in a blaze of glory, but Holmes apparently did not. Why?

    A type of false murder also exists. “You are dead to me.” accomplishes the same end without breaking a commandment. I left the other blog because one person who enraged me needed to cease to exist in my world.

    Newt, Muffy wrote you are associated with that other blog. You aren’t NOP are you?

    Pfessor also made some good points.

    A western town sherrif enforced the law without using a weapon,. He was large and imposing.

  43. Tex, I am so sorry for all the pain your father and your family are having to go through. I like PF’s advice.

    Folks, please take Tex’s story as a wake up call. Make sure your spouse or children or someone has your health power of attorney. Many people do not realize that a spouse has no access. If your parents are aged be sure you have their health power of attorney.

  44. @ Rabbit
    The animal was a ground hog. It was quite obvious it was rabid as it was rough coated covered in green flies and kept coming. Ground hogs usually run away as soon as you clap your hands or yell.
    I called animal control to see if they wanted to test the beast and they said no because they knew there was rabies in the county and didn’t have the funds for testing.

  45. I know I can be a major pain in the ass, but I thank every one of you, especially the medical professionals, for your advice and your sympathies. From a friend – especially you Pfesser. Good advice. Sound advice. You know how I know, HIPPA be damned?

    Because after I left last night’s “conversation”, Nurse Ratched must have had a personal epiphany during the night (and the though of Timothy McVeigh’s brother walking in with some cut throat ambulance chaser probably preceded that epiphany) and determined, since my father confused, my mother could have access to his records if she sits with a nurse. She’s going to get even more lenient before I’m through. Isn’t that a shock? One of the little 21 year old techs (younger than either daughter told me thank you this morning because that lady is mean and she’s been muttering all night! 😈 ).

    But Nurse Ratched pushed it just a little too far with me and now my patience wall was breached, resorting to me leaking a little fire and smoke.

    When Queen Bee told me my father early this morning he had an elevated white blood cell count, I said, “Yeah, I know. I could have told you that from his fever. That’s like telling me he has ‘a cold.’ Why don’t you start by telling me if it is bacterial or viral, or get my an infectious disease specialist so we can talk turkey and expedite the lumbar puncture promised Thursday and it’s now Saturday.” Now it is Nurse Ratched that stares with mouth agape. Bet she’s glad she is off for the weekend.

    Perhaps Mr. Ratched will learn a lesson, much like the jackboots that wanted to destroy Chick-Fil-A learned a lesson, that even us little people, Left or Right, don’t like the bullying tactics when we are paying their salaries.

  46. I hope everything works out Tex.

    I’m not much good on medical advice, unless of course you need help on not needing medical advice… 😉

    I’ll keep my fingers crossed and you in my thoughts!

  47. My good egg sister is going to owe me an apology today. So far, three doctors have been to the room, and the lumbar puncture was completed on time.

    Squeaky wheel. But damn, you hate to be that way.

    Thanks guys. Probably be in short supply this weekend.

  48. >>>You shoot in self defense and wound the attacker. You are then to shoot the now helpless attacker in the head to make sure “he tells no tales”? Is that really what the cop was advocating? Or was he simply saying aim to kill the first time and if you only wound, pray the courts believe you.<<<

    I've always taken this as practical rather than legal advice.

    Think of if as being in iine with the "Don't start a fight, but be damn sure you finish it." advice that smarter fathers give their sons.

    If this person is already a threat to you, be it through conscious decision on their part, or drug/alcohol fueled rage, simply shooting at them, or wounding them is probably only going to make them MORE dangerous, and the longer a conflict progresses, the more our old friend uncertainty comes into the picture. Putting a threat down in a fashion that makes damn sure they don't get back up reduced the potential for harm to yourself and others.

  49. Tex, I hope you get some results with your Dad, and I echo Raj’s advice…Medical Powers of Attorney…even for your spouse, because HIPPA made it necessary, which is why the “Gay marriage for hospital rights for loved ones!” trope a proveable and blatant lie.

  50. I found some of those so in love gays you was talking about all these years.

    Tex, kissing? Your photo expose of a few months ago with all the dicks hanging out was much more compelling. 🙂

  51. which is why the “Gay marriage for hospital rights for loved ones!” trope a proveable and blatant lie.

    Oh please stop the politicking. It’s not a lie it’s an easily understandable misunderstanding. I was shocked to read that Tex’s mother was not allowed access to Tex’s father’s records. I thought a spouse legally was automatically given access.

    But then I should have known better since I’ve signed forms in a hospital giving my wife access to information if necessary.

  52. Tex, your situation takes me back eight years to when my mother lay dying in a hospital with the so called professionals dicking around until it was too late to save her. I felt I had grounds for a lawsuit then too but passed it up at my father’s urging.

    One of my problems was that almost until the end my mother was pretty cogent and intent on “not making waves” so when on one visit I started complaining about her care, she told me to leave it be. She would moan and groan in pain UNTIL the doctors showed up and then suddenly she put on the brave face. Since she ran me my entire life I was unprepared to switch roles and run her care to my liking. Dad was in denial and basically paralyzed (not physically) the whole time.

    My wife tells me I need to heal but I’ll never forgive myself for not taking a more active role in my mother’s care. In fact, she died while I was away on a f*cking business trip for the company that threw my ass out three years later.

    It’s amazing I haven’t gone postal. I’ll probably die before my anger issues are completely resolved.

    P.S. In the category of “you never learn, do you?” all this happened years after I procrastinated about visiting my dying grandmother because I refused to believe she was really dying. She was my biggest fan. I owed her better.

    P.P.S. Sorry for the confessional Tex when you need support but your predicament is bringing back memories. 😦

  53. “But then I should have known better since I’ve signed forms in a hospital giving my wife access to information if necessary”.-R

    Shame Rutherford! You need a medical power of attorney. You may not be able to sign those forms one day.

  54. Oh … Tex maybe comment 65 can put in context why I told you a couple of days ago to tend to your father as much as you can. You need to be confident that you’ve handled things to the best of your ability.

    I echo the others here … glad your wife is coming home to back you up. That is of course as it should be. If her job says a peep about it, she should tell them in the nicest way possible to f*ck off.

  55. I agree, if someone is a threat, do the deed once. Make sure the coup d’grace looks like self defense. Shooting a wounded assailant in the head is an invitation to charges.

    My wife and I have wills and each has power of medical attourney for the other. Another problem is that if something, even a cemetary plot is in only one spouse’s name, probate may be in your future. I know from personal experience, you want to avoid probate.

    We had our own problems with doctors. I was hauling corn when a doctor called to tell us my father was clinically dead. His heart and breathing had ended. I had power of attorney so it was my call. They recommended we let him die. My wife argued in favor of it too, but my father had said he wanted to be revived. I called my brother at work and he said he would support whatever I decided.

    I didn’t know what to do, and I didn’t want to let my father down. I told them to revive him. An ambulance took my father to a Sioux City hospital forty miles away. We saw an ambulance in the median. It was my dad’s. A tire had blown out. Thus, we beat him to the hospital.

    I was with my father when he woke. We locked eyes through all of the tubes sticking from him, and I knew he was back. The doctor later said I had made the right call, and they should have considered that my father was unusual.

    Doctors gave my wife and our son a 50/50 chance of survival. She was already in the hospital with toxemia. I followed the ambulance to Sioux City. I was there for the birth. My wife was in trouble, and all attention focused on her. A monitor showing our son’s vital signs were declining, but no one noticed. I tapped a nurse on the shoulder, and she had a fit. Activity was quick.

    Then, it was back to my wife who was out of it. The same thing happened again, and I was the one who noticed. The third time, we all saw the decline.

    Our son weighed barely four pounds, was blue-green and spent the night in an incubator. My wife nearly died of shock, and our happy little family stayed in the hospital for ten days, first to get our son up to five pounds and to stabilize my wife’s liver.

    We learned that a hospital patient needs an advocate, preferably a family member.

  56. Besides wills, you need to be sure everything is in both spouses names. Otherwise, you may face probate. You don’t want probate.

  57. I think it is outright criminal for a doctor to recommend letting a patient die. I’m so glad you made the right call James.

    Your story is a reminder of how incompetent the medical profession can be.

  58. Tex, thinking about your struggles. The exhaustion can be like a pilot suffering from hypoxia. Remember to take breaks.

    Although I am obviously not barred in OK, and the stuff you’re concerned with is state specific, if you feel I might have some legal advice that might be useful you’re welcom to shoot me an email. We’re linked by email in Gorilla’s invitations. I also know some of this is right up BiC’s ally too.

  59. Rutherford. My only hang out in Chicago is a place called Map Room. It appears I will be in Chicago soon. Want to meet me there?

  60. Rutherford @68
    Argh!! I didn’t want to hear that 😦
    I’m sure BiW or Tigre can tell you how to download wills and power of attorneys off the internet and all you have to do is have them notarized. What guardian arrangements have you made for your daughter? Please leave nothing to chance.

    Maybe if you meet with Rabbit at the Map Room he can help you map out what you need to do 😉 or at least hit you over the head with a 2×4!

  61. A DEA officer stopped at a ranch in Texas, and talked with an old rancher. He told the rancher, “I need to inspect your ranch for illegally grown drugs.” The rancher said, “Okay , but don’t go in that field over there…..”, as he pointed out the location. The DEA officer verbally exploded saying, ” Mister, I have the authority of the Federal Government with me!” Reaching into his rear pants pocket, the arrogant officer removed his badge and proudly displayed it to the rancher. “See this fucking badge?! This badge means I am allowed to go wherever I wish…. On any land !! No questions asked or answers given!! Have I made myself clear?…. do you understand?!!” The rancher nodded politely, apologized, and went about his chores. A short time later, the old rancher heard loud screams, looked up, and saw the DEA officer running for his life, being chased by the rancher’s big Santa Gertrudis bull…… With every step the bull was gaining ground on the officer, and it seemed likely that he’d sure enough get gored before he reached safety. The officer was clearly terrified. The rancher threw down his tools, ran to the fence and yelled at the top of his lungs…..

    “Your badge, show him your fucking BADGE!!”

  62. Nagic,

    😆 That’s about the truth, too.

    Tigre, I may take you up on your legal offer if it happens again. Thanks for the offer of help from everyone involved. One thing I had forgotten about this blog. There’s a wealth of information about a multitude of professions. It is very much appreciated – my thanks to everyone involved, including the host who graciously lets me use his blog and provides the joint.

    Since I showed my ass last night, the cooperation has suddenly become quite noticeable. I thought I saw the neurosurgeon wink at me out of the corner of his eye this afternoon. Somebody must have said something.

    I actually was kind of proud of myself for just showing my crack and not moving to step 2 to raving lunatic. My sister may not appreciate it, but every family needs one person to be bastard to deal with difficult people, like the mob needs a good hit man to gain reputation. This may be a conceit of sorts, but I have often wondered if I shouldn’t have been a public advocate. I’ve never considered myself terribly talented, but I do have a gift of sorts of problem solving combined with just enough foolishness or arrogance to step in it when necessary to expedite the process.

    Truth me known, these hospitals operate in fear of legality all the time and I knew that, so I took advantage. It’s actually kind of pathetic, because most of these hospital staff providing care are first rate people, having to operate under a bloated bureaucracy. I know that too. But when the bureaucracy jeopardizes family and friend for the sake of rules, then it is time to change the rules because we’ve lost sight of the purpose and intent of health care.

    What Rutherford may not fully get by my rants on this blog, is my fear that every time government addresses a problem like equitable treatment and equal access even with the best of intent, things generally grow exponentially worse because frankly our government is incredibly poor at solving problems. And the reason is is twofold: (1) those assigned to the task didn’t understand the underlying problem and deal with the symptoms; (2) their motive generally not pure, because it is based at least in part self-aggrandizement; that’s the nature of politics.

    The same story of when executives meddle with the day to day affairs of employees in a big company, the most recent example being our Microsoft discussion a few weeks back. Everyone of us have experienced it to a degree at one time or another.

    And that is my biggest grievance about big government. Not that government not necessary, but that government best when minimized and the problems solved most effectively by those who understand the problems best.

    And that is not the politicians.

  63. “Guys like Thor live in situations where the risk of having a gun really might out weigh the risk of not having one. Sadly, they take this haughty attitude that everyone is in the same boat. Of course, I’m guessing guys like Thor don’t hunt.” – DR

    DR, it’s not haughtiness. I just know my family is better protected without guns in the house. You’re right, I don’t hunt. To me, cruelty is a waste of spirit.

    But I do recognize that I live in a constitutional republic with a Bill of Rights. So I have learned to live with the madness. Doesn’t mean I can’t voice my opinion about it. Melt the guns!

    BTW, I’m glad you got the guy out that peppered your “Polish sausage”. 🙂

  64. “I cannot think of a single time a gun would have made the difference for me in a confrontation” – Pf

    Didn’t you tell us about protecting the Christmas tree farm once? Maybe that was someone else.

  65. “I cannot think of a single time a gun would have made the difference for me in a confrontation” – Pf

    ‘Didn’t you tell us about protecting the Christmas tree farm once? Maybe that was someone else.’

    There WAS no confrontation. Had there been one, yes, it would have made the difference – no doubt about it.

    That a perfect example of the whole point of having a firearm. It made a boy more than a match for two grown men who were bent on no good.

    And as a side note, I also said I don’t carry as a general rule, but there are times I do. It’s a judgment call. Nice living in a place where, at least for now, you can still do that.

  66. Thanks for the good word, Rutherford. Tex, your family will annonously be on our church prayer list this morning.

    Maud, a seventies show had a character who was a doctor. One show dealt with the “God thing.”Doctors aren’t the only ones afflicted.

    Another thing I don’t like is the occasional practice of letting someone die through starvation because nothing else can be done. We treat terminal dogs and horses better. Such people should be killed as an act of mercy. rather than be allowed to linger on as nature takes its course.

    I read that Switzerland has a low violent crime rate, and one of the reasons is every family owns a weapon. I don’t know if it is true, but we were able to feel safe walking through Geneva or Zurich in the wee hours of the morning. We did see a of drunks.

    I just heard on the news that a man just shot his critically ill wife in a hospital. No one knows why yet. A Nebraska man shot his nearly dead wife to put her out of her misery several years ago.

  67. “I think it is outright criminal for a doctor to recommend letting a patient die.”

    Are you sure you want to make such a broad, off-the-cuff statement? Do you think it is always appropriate to expend unlimited time and effort and inflict unlimited suffering in a futile effort to give the patient one more day? Is there ever a time to say, “Grandma had a good life, but it is time we let her go?”

    “Your story is a reminder of how incompetent the medical profession can be.”

    No, it is a reminder of how incompetent individuals can be.

    I am always recommending reading material, R, and here’s another one for you: “The Checklist Manifesto” by Atul Gawande.

    Probably the most impressive and little-known accomplishment of the last twenty years is the way airlines have almost completely eliminated the risk of flying for the public. Gawande recommends adapting this process to medicine (He’s a surgeon). It will never happen, IMHO until we require an engineering degree for admission to medical school. Nearly everyone else is too mentally undisciplined to use such a system, but it would cut medical mistakes by 99%, IMHO. Too much cowboy mentality still present for implementing such a system as things stand today.

  68. Not to beat a dead horse, Rutherford, but I would submit that it is EXACTLY the doctor who should tell the family when it is time to let Grandma go. This means, of course, he must have a good rapport with the family and they complete confidence in him.

    The trend today is for the doctor to give the family all the options, including doing nothing, and then let them choose. I believe this is a terrible mistake and a setup for family guilt and self-recrimination. He’s the damned expert; he needs to step up to the plate.

    This is what you say: “Here is what is happening to your father: he has had an xxxxxxxx. I felt that was the case when I examined him, and this has been confirmed by all the blood tests and a CAT scan. Unfortunately, this condition generally causes the lungs and heart to fail, too. His have begun to fail and there is no way to effectively treat it. I’m sorry; there is no recovery from this kind of yyyyyyy and no effective treatment, (You do NOT go into the Harvard study that showed 12% of people got 10% better and say, “I think we should give it a shot!” Keep that information to yourself.) The one thing we CAN do and WILL is to make him absolutely comfortable and we will spare no effort in doing that; he will have whatever he needs.”

    You don’t have to say “We are going to let him die,” and you should NEVER say that; you don’t have to. People are not stupid.

    That’s how you do it. Modern medical training is a wreck. We are masters of the technical and utter failures of the human – which in the face of ultimate death is the only part that matters.

  69. My father died at 95, and he wanted three things before he left us. He wanted to see his two grand children’s birthdays, and he wanted to know how the harvest went.

    He was not meant to die the morning the doctors and everyone else said he was gone. My father also had a problem swallowing, and he had several bouts of aspiration pneumonia. The doctor said he had lived a good life, and we should just let him die. Withholding food and water was relatively painless, and my father would merely drift away.

    I knew it was not true, I told the doctor that I would deny the conversation.had happened. If food and water was withheld, I would bring a pistol into the hospital and blow my father away. If anyone interfered, they would also die until my father was dead. .

    I didn’t yell, and I spoke as if I had said it was raining outside. The doctor believed me. They gave my father a feeding tube. He did fine. He walked about the hospital for excercise, listened to Rush, watched television and read as many books and magazines as we could give him. He also flirted with the nurses, and they flirted back..

    My father’s condition improved sufficiently that he was being transferred to a local hospital with the hope he would be home with us again after we learned the intracies of feeding tubes. We often told my father what he meant to us, but he didn’t really believe.

    A nurse visited with us and said they all liked him, and that he was a “fine old gentleman.” It was my opening to tell her what we thought of him and what he had accomplished. Since it was to a third person, he believed.

    The extra time let my father say good bye to some relatives and friends, and he throughly enjoyed his grand childrens’ birthdays two days apart. At midnight after our son’s birthday, I told the nurse not to do anything heroic to let my father live if he had trouble. He died two hours later. Someone may have figuratively put a pillow over his face for all I know. It seemed too convienient, but it was time for him to die.

    My father saw me into the world, and he stood by me when no one else did after my return from the service. I would have borrowed money or sold land if we had to to see him out as we did. So, yes, I would have put a bullet in his head.

  70. A video, Dedicated to the 11 Lost-Vietnam War Footage on youtube video was taken by a soldier who wrote he had an 8 mm movie camera in on hand and an M-16 in the other. The video shows mostly helicoptors traveling to the site of battle after it ended.

    It made me think. If one must kill for self- defense, and it is possible, he/she should document the deed with a cell phone or video camera. If it is hidden in a pocket or purse, the devise can run to record the whole story.

  71. Thor….Cruelty of Spirit? Do not understand how important hunting is for a healthy, viable deer population? I am assuming you are a vegatarian? If not, wow. Your compartmentalization is astounding. And haughty. What a shnorrrre fest you must be as a Pops. Dad, lets gp fishing. Son, no. Let me try to explain cruelty of spirit via interpretive dance while your uncles trance out in the drum circle instead.

  72. I agree. Rabbit is a classic.

    DR I’m gonna pass on the Map Room but hey if you wanna catch a train to Naperville I’ll gladly chew your ear off over an enchilada at On the Border. 🙂

    P.S. what brings you to Chicago? (And don’t say a bus.)

  73. PF I just don’t feel a doctor should be an advocate for death. I completely agree that the doctor must level with the family about the odds of and extent of recovery but no pressure should be applied by the doctor on either side of the life/death choice.

    I think James story of his father proves the point.

  74. Hunting without eating the game….never have seen it in my life. I’m sure it happens. But never have seen it. I am guilty of wasting fish a few times. And I felt exactly that, guilty.

  75. Tex I believe it is absolutely true that patients whose loved ones visit daily receive better treatment even if they don’t bitch than those patients who have no one “watching”.

    I’m not sure I’d assign any malevolence to this phenom. It could just be that loved ones humanize the patient in the eyes of caregivers.

  76. Who in their right mind would ever have a beef with Sikhs in America ? Talk about good, self sufficient people. Of course slaughtering them in cowardly fashion is in another disgusting realm. I don’t even know how someone could target then with a slur not alone a weapon. I though for sure this had to be an inside job. But nope. It appears it is not the case.

  77. My daughter went on her first overnight camping trip (in Wisconsin) Friday night. She pulled an all-nighter, came home Saturday and promptly fell asleep for six hours. Then a full nights sleep after that. She’s about caught up now.

    I swear Saturday she looked like she had just come back from an all night bender.

    Please don’t let this be visions of future summers! 😯

  78. @ rutherford 92 I think that happens only rarely now. Sadly though when it does it happens in the extreme. Some pack of douchebags at a “canned” hunt ranch,that drives me nuts. Makes me savor The Dangerous Game scenario.
    Everyone I ever knew that hunted were pretty hyper about using everything,and I mean everything.
    I personally don’t get hunting but find it ok as long as folks eat the bag.Ironically when it comes to the Canada Geese and wild turkeys crossing the street,well those I run over and everyone thinks I’m a db to do so. I figure its cool to kill an animal to stupid to remember it can fly. I’m not getting rear ended because nature lovers want to live out some inane interpretation of Make Way for Ducklings.
    Wow a deep personal entry and one with two literary shout outs. I’m turning in2 kind of a puff.

  79. Thanks for the comments Rutherford.

    We always ate what we shot. I shot a barn swallow once and I dressed it. My mother basted the bird and fried it. Those drumsticks were tiny.

  80. I am the definition of insanity, Poolman. Right now, my life is so boring “the voices in my head are snoring.” Heh heh.

  81. I’m starting a new regimen tomorrow and we’ll see how long it lasts. My new plan is to wake up before my IBS does. That means no more going to bed at 1:30 am. From now on Mon thru Fri it’s in bed by 11:30 and up at 5:30. I’m a night owl so this will be a struggle.

    Oddly my IBS has improved lately because I STOPPED probiotics and fiber supplements. I think I was just putting too much sh*t in my system so to speak.

  82. The thugs I have to deal with on a daily basis. Sad to say this was one of my kids a couple years back, one of many I was unable to reach. I have to go through 30 kids like this to find 1 that has the potential and the desire to escape.

  83. “PF I just don’t feel a doctor should be an advocate for death. I completely agree that the doctor must level with the family about the odds of and extent of recovery but no pressure should be applied by the doctor on either side of the life/death choice.”

    Death is not the enemy, Rutherford. Everybody dies. It is a very natural process. Growing up in the country, we saw death often, neighbors sat up 24/7 with their dying neighbors, dug their graves and consoled their kin, and expected the same for themselves one day.

    A physician is in a unique position to know when further treatment is futile. He should shoulder the burden that comes with that knowledge and take it from the family. That’s his job, and I believe his highest calling.

    Pressure is the wrong word. The doctor is not a salesman; he is not in the pressuring business. He is the the patient’s advocate – and that means always recommending the treatment that is in the patient’s best interest.

    Sometimes that is no treatment.

    If the family insists on futile treatments then a physician is obligated to proceed, but if they do insist, then in speaking with them he hasn’t done his job. I have been in this business since 1979 and I have NEVER had a patient’s family go against my recommendations or second-guess themselves later – and that includes many, many such situations in my own extended family. On the contrary, it is a source of great peace for everyone.

  84. There were four gunmen at the Sikh temple, according to this eye witness. I wonder why the main stream media is pushing the one gunman theme again. All the MSM reports are claiming a lone gunman that was taken out by a cop.

    Same happened with the Aurora shooting. Multiple witnesses claim at least two gunmen and then claim Holmes was sitting in a car, dazed, next to the weapons. Of course, even the pictures of the crime scene show the official story isn’t accurate. Our media is such a load of bullshit and misinformation.

  85. “Keep that information to yourself” -pfessor

    I hear what you are saying, but if I ever found out the doctor withheld information becuase he didn’t think I could handle it, I’m going to be very pissed. Give me the info. All of it. If the study is bull shit, say it might be bull shit. But don’t purposely hide the info. Give me the goods and give me your opinion.

  86. No I am not a teacher but I do work with the schools and churches with my not for profit outreach. Work with kids to keep them in schools, summer programs to keep them out of trouble and a program with new grads showing them how to turn their hustle into a business.

  87. “Thor….Cruelty of Spirit? Do not understand how important hunting is for a healthy, viable deer population? I am assuming you are a vegatarian? If not, wow. Your compartmentalization is astounding.” – DR

    I actually said cruelty is a waste of spirit.

    The part about hunting being good for deer is complete 100% bullshit. Deer thrive in an open range with predators, where the biggest and strongest bucks live and breed. Where the fleetest doe and fawn get away. Hunting by humans (and the magazines that glorify it) encourages killing of the “big one”. A wolf would never single out the biggest, strongest, fastest elk.

    I’m not big on eating meat, but I’m no vegetarian. But I think there is a huge difference between raising livestock for the sole purpose of providing food and, when the time comes, putting an air gun to its head and some dude driving his rusty Bronco out where he’s not invited so he can slaughter some bear that never did a thing to him just to prove to his buddies he’s cool.

    And yes, it’s all about the killing. Bear meat tastes like a greasy, dog-shit brownie. Nobody is hunting them for food.

    One of my kids’ uncles DOES hunt. They think he is a jerk for doing it.

    And, don’t underestimate the entertainment value of a pacifist lifestyle. When a spider is spotted in the house, it’s great entertainment for all. They get a big kick out of my wife screaming “kill the fucking thing” at the top of her lungs while I gather a drinking glass and envelope to safely escort the little guy outside. 🙂

  88. The part about hunting being good for deer is complete 100% bullshit.

    Sorry but you are completely ignorant and wrong on this subject. In Michigan we had several years where we had mass die-offs due to starvation because of over population. In the years where they have limited hunting, besides the die-offs we start to see disease run through the deer population. Increased tags have lead to a healthier deer population for our state.

  89. PF, I’ve mentioned it to you in the past, but I had an experience quite different from what you’ve described when my father-in-law choked at our dinner. A LOT of pressure to stop life support before the closes family members had arrived — including my sister-in-law that held the medical POA. Ultimately the decision was the same but only after I had to bow up as my family’s de facto legal advisor due to the crisis. I was fortunate to have a neurologist client that came to my aid during the crisis to do what the treating neurologist didn’t in properly advising (at least supplementing the assessment). The whole situation couldn’t have been handled worse and proved to me how easy it is for the doctor to usurp the role of the one appointed to make the ultimate call of life versus death. Inevitable to some degree (I’m sure), but ethically and morally improper IMO.

  90. Ha ha….Thor eats animal flesh. I knew it. He just can’t help himself. You naughty man. And yeah, Thor, you need to read a little about the deer populations of Michigan, buddy. Go back to eating your hamburger and telling yourself the air gun gives you the moral high ground. Hilerious.

  91. “Sorry but you are completely ignorant and wrong on this subject. In Michigan we had several years where we had mass die-offs due to starvation because of over population. In the years where they have limited hunting, besides the die-offs we start to see disease run through the deer population” – N

    Exactly my point. Humans are terrible at managing wildlife. Predators are pretty good at it. You managed to kill most of the predators off, way to go. Now, make sure you go out and shoot the diseased, old, weak starved deer. Yeah right.

  92. thor, you go on and live in never never land. We adults here live in a little place I call reality. We are where we are and we deal with it as such. Facts are if we followed your Leftist ways, these deer would be left to die by starvation by the tens of thousands. Your so called compassion would lead to a great deal of unnecessary suffering. Why not stop trying to save face and just admit you were wrong.

  93. “Ha ha….Thor eats animal flesh. I knew it.”

    Never claimed I didn’t. Anyone that thinks they can get through life without any benefit from a dead animal is nuts. Hell, until recently, you couldn’t buy a transmission additive without being party to the slaughter of a whale. But, I submit, just about anyone could live a full life without shooting a deer. If you can’t understand the difference between slaughtering cattle and hunting wild animals, then you probably have had little experience with either. Don’t call me ignorant for the choices you make.

  94. “Your so called compassion would lead to a great deal of unnecessary suffering. Why not stop trying to save face and just admit you were wrong.” N

    Actually, you’re wrong. Completely wrong. Yes, a complete shut down of hunting would be catastrophic. And why would it be done that way?. The answer is, it wouldn’t. Ever been to Yellowstone? Glacier? North Cascades? Let me clue you in. When you hike the trails there, you’re not having to crawl over giant piles of steamy herbivore corpses.

    Hunters destroy the balance and then justify their bloodlust by saying they must maintain the balance. NRA scat. Nothing more.

  95. thor, is there a name for what is wrong with you? heh the only reason to continue this conversation on further would be to let you dig your own hole deeper. You happen to be on a subject I know a great deal about, and all I can tell you kiddo is you dont have a clue.

  96. just an fyi thor, I spent 7 years working with the DNR and Parks and Recreations services. Just so you know what your getting into before you give me the chance to make a complete chump out of you. I would exercise the better part of valor on this one.

  97. Hunters generate more money towards conservation and the acquisition of state land then any one else in the nation. Billions of dollars. Go eat another burger and pretend your so much more civilized then the guy who drives a Bronco. Pack meat sandwhiches and go on a hike funded by hunters, oblivious where the money comes from. In fact, one of the greatest fears conservationists have right now is the declining numbers of hunters. We provide sanctuary to the animals that you enjoy. Hate to say it, but your petty park pass ain’t paying the bills. Thank a hunter for your free ride. Hell if you care so much for the wild, buy a tag and just don’t hunt. Or go hunting with me. Your garunteed to not harvast (gasp) any deer.

    You’re almost unrelatable to me, Thor. I can’t help but imagine you as some quasi male version of Edie Brickell, bro. Choke me in the shallow water before I get deep. Wah wah wah way wah( I always loved that guitar part).

  98. DR @ 108. It is very much analogous to having a client who is up for a 20 year rap. You don’t quote him “Jones vs. Smith, 1942 – or then there was the case of Jonnson vs. Bleeke, 1983, that went the other way. Or we could argue the case on the basis of obstruction of farfalonus, but then we would risk an adverse drazzleframus…etc. What do YOU think we should do?” You don’t do that. You run these things in your head, but you don’t burden the client or his family with deciding what they mean, if they apply in this case and if so, how much. You weigh the risks and benefits and you make your recommendation, because as a professional that is your job.

    In both the legal and the medical, there are consequences to being wrong. And the reason you do the above is that, as a professional, you want to put that burden on yourself, not on the client or patient. Sure, the client has the final say – but it would seem to me that the patient’s – or client’s – going against the advice of counsel, or doctor, should be very rare if a professional is worth his salt.

    Sure, everybody knows an anecdote of medical incompetence – ask me about my mother sometime – ditto mis-steps in the courtroom that cost a client dearly. We are still a very long way from fixing either; until that time comes, you pays your money and takes your shot.

  99. re: Sade. “Shar-day.” Love her music. I could crawl inside that voice and eat her up from the inside. God what a sexy lady! Her back story is quite interesting, too; she’s not some goober from the East Side peddling a tune. Quite a gal.

    Poolman, you’re up late. Me too. I promised my 19 year-old and a couple of his buds that I would take them to the beach before summer was over, so here we are in Nags Head, partying down!

    (Well, they are partying down. I crashed about 9:30; now I am up at 3. Oh well…)

  100. Thor, have you ever been to Yellowstone? I’ve hunted then animals on and off the park and I have many friends and family who have hunted on the park itself.

    Further, while I don’t mind a nice rack, I hunt for meat and I eat what I hunt. Every hunter I know does the same. The deer populations today are higher than they’ve ever been, and yes, if you don’t manage them with hunting, then they will starve and/or die from disease. Let us not forget the billions of dollars in damage- and deaths- caused by deer strikes on the roads as well.

    Hunters do more for the environment than anyone else. Period. More than the Sierra Club or Green Peace- combined. You’re an idiot and clearly have no idea what you’re talking about.

    Enjoy your overly fat, corn fed beef and I’ll enjoy my ORGANIC venison…

  101. I read that Switzerland has a low violent crime rate, and one of the reasons is every family owns a weapon.

    James this is just too oversimplified. How do you explain Japan’s 11 gun murders in one year and they have very strict gun control?

    I think these correlations are just manufactured. Our problem as a country is that the statement “if you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns” is absolutely true and that is because we allowed the situation to get out of control in the first place and there is no putting the genie back in the bottle.

  102. I agree with thor about role of preditors. Their job is to improve the vitality and genetics of animals they eat by taking the victims they can catch with the least amount of effort. Humans have been part of the food chain since the beginning, but our improved weapons dating back thousands of years tend to upset the normal genetic flow.

    We have killed or driven away our primary rival preditors, large animals like wolves and mountain lions. Thus, we have replaced them.I don’t believe humans were allowed to hunt in Yellowstone Park.

    It illustrates the cost of letting destroying meat eaters. Before wolves were introduced, deer and elk were over running the place, and they created environmental damage which threatened other animals.

    On the whole, I agree hunters do more for the environment than anyone else.

    Mountain lions are slowly moving back to our area. That will help solve the deer problem.

  103. Whether or not you agree with the theme of Poolman’s Jedi Mind Tricks video it does illustrate how good rap is when it is done right. Unfortunately the dude raps so fast sometimes you really do need that lyric sheet to know what he is saying. Still I have admiration for the old school rappers who had ambitious rhymes and really tried to convey a message.

  104. I’m glad your life is boring too, Rutherford.

    Rabbit, over the years , four of five ex students have come up to my wife at funerals or other accidental meetings and told her how much she changed their lives when she taught them. Sometimes, she doesn’t even remember them. Other times she does and thinks they would be the last people she’d expect to thank her.

  105. I’m turning in2 kind of a puff.

    Alfie, after your gun testimonial earlier in the thread, I think you have pretty much buried any possible puff reputation. 🙂

  106. It is probably oversimplification, about Switzerland, Rutherford.

    All I know is that I have been to Switzerland, and it is a civil place, especially when one considers it has three language groups, Italian, French, and German. We felt safe walking around in the wee hours of the morning. Rome and London, not so much, though no one bothered us.

    The theory is that if no one knows who is armed and who is not, the tendency to be violent lessons. If Japan has strict gun laws, bad guys would be less fearful of someone retaliating with bullets.

    On the other hand, Omaha lets people carry concealed weapons. Yet, the Von Maurer shooter didn’t fear killing so many people. Our daughter is a therapist who had connections to the shooter and victims. We knew some of the people who were nearly killed.

    The shooter was likeable and had friends, but he was troubled. He and several others lived with a nurse who tried to help them survive. The shooter was fired from his McDonalds job for stealing, and his girl friend broke with him. He snapped.

    When it was over, the nurse was arrested for providing drugs to her charges.

  107. Sad to say this was one of my kids a couple years back, one of many I was unable to reach.

    Noah I don’t recall what you do for a living. Are you a teacher?

    All I can say is I was pleased to see there was a fence between the a$$hole and the young woman. I’d love to know the context of this video. How did she come to talk to him?

    Can we now agree a bible in the wrong hands is a dangerous thing?

  108. As you know, we lived in the UK. Our car was hard lock, so we usually didn’t try. We returned to our car after shopping in London and found trash inside. Someone had used our car as a place to eat his lunch.

  109. Turns out Sikh Temple shooter is- ahem, was – a friend of Piss Pots; was a skin head. Seig Heil and all that Stormfront frat unite bullshit eh you fucking piss cake…

  110. Death is not the enemy, Rutherford. Everybody dies.

    Neither of us believes in an afterlife PF. As far as I know, this is the only game in town and I’m gonna have to be pulled out of this game kicking and screaming. 😉

  111. Give me the info. All of it. If the study is bull shit, say it might be bull shit. But don’t purposely hide the info. Give me the goods and give me your opinion.

    I 100% agree. To “protect” me from info you, the doctor, consider distracting is an insult to my intelligence. Tell me all my options with the appropriate caveats and let me figure out what to do.

  112. No I am not a teacher but I do work with the schools and churches with my not for profit outreach.

    Apologies for asking the already answered question Noah. Sounds like you’re a bit of a “community organizer”. 🙂

  113. Bear meat tastes like a greasy, dog-shit brownie.

    Sorry but I can’t resist … I have to ask you my eight year old’s question — “You ate a dog-shit brownie?”

  114. Wife and kids out of town.

    I just dusted the house with a fan and a 30 gal air compressor.

    (~Tim Allen noise~) Ohhh, hoooo hoooo hooooo! More power!

  115. Tigre, ever since you first mentioned your father-in-law the first time I’ve tried not to linger on the thought as I find it horrifying. If you’ve already recounted this, I apologize for forgetting … did anyone know the Heimlich maneuver or did it simply not work?

    The border-on-irrational fear that Rabbit has about children drowning at the beach, I have about choking. I can’t swallow pills without having a mouthful of food to get them down with (an attempt to trick myself into not noticing the pill). My wife has a very sensitive gag reflex and chokes on food probably about once every couple of months. Never to the extent that she can’t breathe but enough to scare the crap out of my daughter. I remember seeing my Dad choke on food when I was a kid. He managed to dislodge it himself. And of course, I’ve choked a few times myself …. oddly not since I got trached. (Although since I got trached, my throat is much more sensitive and if I get a bit of spice back there, forget it … I’m coughing for the next ten minutes.) I figure if I ever choke on food at this point, I’ll just uncap my trach and breathe through my neck until I can dislodge the food.

    I’m so paranoid about choking that I sometimes worry my cat will choke on food. 😐

    P.S. One of the reasons I’ve never smoked.

  116. Tip for folks viewing Rabbit’s mobile YouTube links … I just noticed (DOH!) that there is desktop link at the top of the page that brings up the desktop version of the video so you can play it. If time allows, I’ll replace these links with embeds everyone can view within the thread. (I did this with Rabbit’s Cabrera video.)

  117. Noah … objecting to hunting is leftist? ❓

    You know I have a feeling that if Noah didn’t like chocolate chip cookies and I did, he’d say liking chocolate chip cookies was leftist. 🙂

  118. Mountain lions are slowly moving back to our area. That will help solve the deer problem.
    It is gonna help with your hiker & mountain biker problem too!

  119. Hate to poop on the party but I’ve always felt Sade couldn’t sing worth a damn. I guess her voice works well in a jazz groove. I could never warm up to her.

  120. Enjoy your overly fat, corn fed beef and I’ll enjoy my ORGANIC venison…

    I hate to pile on Thor … you know I love you man … but this comment from G really did hit home with me. The slaughter house that you cite as a humanitarian alternative to hunting is anything but. The cattle are fed a lousy diet and kept in terrible conditions. I’m not getting on any high horse here … I’ll eat a hamburger in a heartbeat but I think it’s fair to say a hunter can eat his kill with a lighter conscience than we can eat our industrial made burgers.

  121. Rutherford I think you have a grasp that culture plays a huge role regards crime and violence. I think this is what helps explain the US/Japan/Switzerland paradox.
    The guns in Switzerland are as I understand it tied to the conscription thing. Neutral history aside if one were to choose to invade Zurich & environs you’d find an armed and trained populace ready for you. The culture of gun ownership there is something different and when added to the train,high tax and skiing thing it is indeed surprising you have such balance still.

    Japan is not without violence. In fact if you were to take a sociology course specific to Japan I think you’d find that the crime and violence trends very personal. The absence of a firearm in this scenario isn’t to be bought into too strongly. Think about it. A culture that embraced ritual disembowelment and honorable beheadings. That shit is personal. I’d also add to my argument Japans well documented suicide rate.

  122. Since no one else jumped on this obvious one I’ll bite.

    James this is just too oversimplified. How do you explain Japan’s 11 gun murders in one year and they have very strict gun control?

    Rutherford, step up man this is weak. If you remove the guns from the hands of the people, and then notice a drop in gun related crimes, this says nothing. To actually say anything of merit on the action one has to look for a reduction of overall crime. This is that character flaw I keep talking about. You knew what you were saying was dishonest but used it anyway.

    I’d love to know the context of this video. How did she come to talk to him?

    This was “Gay Day” in Grand Rapids, Mi. She was a lesbian girl or a supporter of gay rights. Maybe this puts all my “hood” references to you in more perspective. Though knowing your privileged upbringing a little better, maybe the context is lost.

    Sounds like you’re a bit of a “community organizer”. 🙂

    Yes but I am one that has put others before myself to glorify his name and not my own. Oh, and I have actually accomplished something.

    Noah … objecting to hunting is leftist? ❓

    Being a leftists, you might not be able to grasp this…but… If you were to take a man like yourself or thor, and marry them to a strong conservative women, you could never produce offspring. As you would find yourself face down on the bed each night with your wife fcking you. ie all this tree-hugging, mamby-pamby bs has made you all something less than a man, imo. And no, forging out into the great unknown to get to the mail box to “hunt and gather” your guvment check doesn’t count.

  123. R @ 159. I was just going to add that same information about the slaughter houses.
    The cattle are fed a high protein diet consisting of chicken manure and bits and parts of dead fowl that fall through the wire in the chicken houses, loaded up with antibiotics until fat enough to slaughter crammed into spaces so tight they shit and eat without moving. Now if that information isn’t enough to spoil your breakfast, think of the turkeys who are bred for breast meat and are so fat they can’t use their legs and crammed so tight in transport to slaughter that some of them die before arrival. Even the shellfish which are farm raised have to be fed antibiotics because the water they live in is so fouled.

    The bears are moving into civilization because environmental conditions have left their habitat devoid of food. Herds of 40 or more deer are seen in hay fields. Where hunting is not allowed such as populated communities, the deer happily graze on lawns and flowers.

    If hunting was not allowed the government would have to take charge of controlling the deer population like they do with the wild horse herds. Gator hunting in FL was not allowed at one time but is now.

    As long as we populate and develop the countryside, we then must become responsible for the wild life that inhabited the land before us. You might compare it to the plight of the American Indian.

  124. Don’t think the Japan gun-death rate is so simple. First, this is an extremely homogeneous population of people who all look just alike and share a very strong culture of family. Hell, much of our black population doesn’t even know WHO their father is, much less worry about disgracing him by committing a crime. Secondly, the Japs have a very highly developed social order, likely related to living on top of each other for centuries. Apples and kumquats.

    Yep, if there are no guns in Japan, well, surprise!! – a low gun death rate. A country with almost no horseshoes has a very low rate of horseshoe-related deaths, too.

    The culture, tradition, ethnic mix in America is a whole ‘nother world away from Japan. The very last thing I would want here in the USA is to lose the ability to defend myself from young predatory thugs who know I am unarmed.

    As for the idea of confiscating firearms, another thing you might want to consider is what an invading force would face in a country with millions upon millions of hunters with shotguns and high-powered rifles, the knowledge of how to use them, and a home-turf advantage. A big army is several million men; there are about 22 million hunters in the US.

    And by the way, their licensing fees and other operations contribute about $1billion to game and conservation efforts. I think THAT case is closed.

  125. I agree, Ragi.

    As top of the line predators we are more efficient killers than our competitors. We are also more numerous. Ancestors of the American Indian may have contributed to the extinction of large ice age large mammals.

    Yes, we could compare our efficiency with removing competitors with the plight of the American Indian.

  126. Also on the subject of Japan some interesting points 2 ponder:
    As noted the gun control is total.
    The demographic for gun related homicide ie the shooters are overwhelmingly male 20’s. Japan is experiencing a population shrinkage. Future numbers for homicides may be even smaller due to the population issue.

  127. Since no one else jumped on this obvious one I’ll bite.
    … This is that character flaw I keep talking about. You knew what you were saying was dishonest but used it anyway.

    What are you talking about? First, Alfie beat you to it. Second, my comment was very specific and very honest … lots of gun control, MANY fewer gun deaths in Japan. So rather than call me dishonest, try broadening the point … which is what Alfie did. Go back and read Alfie’s comment on the subject (comment 161). The difference between you and Alfie is he gives me the benefit of the doubt of not coming to the table with a desire to manipulate facts. You don’t. You need to get this Rutherford bug out of your ass and take my comments at face value. I’m not nearly as coy as you seem to think I am.

    She was a lesbian girl Mmmm, glad to hear she wasn’t a lesbian boy.

    Though knowing your privileged upbringing a little better, maybe the context is lost.
    One minute I’m an affirmative action beneficiary and the next I’m privileged. Make up your mind.

    If you were to take a man like yourself or thor, and marry them to a strong conservative women … bla bla bla

    Ahhh playing the a$$hole again. I point you to the example that disproves your theory. James Carville and Mary Matalin have two daughters. I’m pretty sure this was the result of his “f*cking” her.

  128. Off topic — if any of you want to feel stoned without taking any unnatural substances rent the film The Tree of Life directed by Terrence Malick. The 2.5 hour film has virtually no plot and about 20 minutes in we suddenly get Malick’s vision of the birth of the universe. Not knowing what to expect, my wife and I sat there mouth’s agape in a total WTF haze. The film won the Palme d’Or at Cannes and critics either loved it or hated it.

    Another film we watched over the weekend was The Artist. This film was also short on plot but for my money if you want to watch a film that values style over substance, The Artist is hands down better than The Tree of Life. Now I grant you, this is comparing apples to oranges … two very different films … but both are very stylistic.

  129. “If you’ve already recounted this, I apologize for forgetting … did anyone know the Heimlich maneuver or did it simply not work?”

    Yes. That was me. Not the first time I’d had to do it. I couldn’t get it dislodged. After he went down I spent my time trying to reach down his throat without success, then focused on chest compressions. I learned later I actually did some damage from being so forceful.

    The worst part was being put on hold for 911 (7-9 minutes). My wife ran to the fire station to get help (1/4 mile — she’s a runner). They were able to resuscitate (the tube that went with the airbag pushed it down). However by that time the damage was done. Life support was disconnected about 4-5 days later. It took him about 1-2 days to pass.

  130. ET – bad, bad scene. Really sorry to hear that.

    When I was a med student we had a cadaver in the lab that had a hunk of meat stuck in its windpipe – the cause of death. They let us “discover” it – caused quite a stir in the lab to see some Real Medicine in first-year.

    I was immediately transported in time to when I was about eight years old. I was sitting on the front porch and Jessie Stone came walking down the road, crying. He was about twelve or so. My Dad yelled up to him, What’s wrong, Boy? He said his father had died. “He was at Hazel’s birthday party, laughing and having a good time, eating a piece of cake. He suddenly grabbed his throat, turned blue and died FROM A HEART ATTACK.”

    Classic “cafe coronary.” For years it was thought that choking deaths like this were acute heart attacks, typically occurring when the person was at the dinner table and broke out laughing, inhaling a piece of meat or, in Mr. Stone’s case, a piece of chocolate cake.

    If we only knew then what we know now about the Heimlich Maneuver…

    There is a penalty to be paid for the evolutionary advantage of speech: placing the origin of the windpipe far down the throat where it is vulnerable to food impaction. I’ve seen several near-choking events; it is scary even to me. That’s why I keep my pocket knife razor-sharp and always at hand.

  131. Thor doesn’t care about animals. He’s not that much of a dumb dumb to actually think he occupies the highroad becuase he buys his bloated corn fed beef at the grocery store. This is nothing more then cultural bigotry. Which cracks me up. Thor couldn’t navigate blue collar Detroit for a minute. His union brothers and fellow Dems, the little guy he argues will benifit so much from a larger, more involved government, his comrads, would bust his fembot balls so bad he would head back to the West Coast a broken spirit. Dude is a soccer mom. He thinks he is in touch with his feelings, but doesn’t know thy self very well. He hates hunting for reasons I suspect Thor himself hasn’t explored yet.

  132. Tree of Life resonated with me. The Brad Pitt role reminded me of my Dad. That movie was cool, although I could understand anyone hating it. The last twenty minutes felt like a bad commercial for an antidepressant (I think I read that somewhere, not my original shtick).

  133. I tell you one thing, Tigre has been through some tough shit in his life. When it comes to the tough road, his shoes are worn worse then anyone of us sorry saps.

  134. Well as I said before Tigre, absolutely horrifying. I hope you found some small solace in the fact you did everything you could to save him.

    Did the experience make you more paranoid about choking? I allow my kid to eat in the backseat of the car when I’m driving but it still scares me she could choke while I’m on the road.

    My mother used to tell me you have to swallow something as large as a pack of cigarettes to really choke on it in to the point of danger but I’ve never believed her.

  135. The Japs sure didn’t have a problem using guns one everyone else in the world. Yes. An orderly, rule following society. And what a danger those societies can be. I would argue the armed Jap was one of the worst things to ever happen in the history of humanity. Golf clap for the Japs. Such a peaceful people.

  136. Rabbit, I will grant you that the Brad Pitt role was pretty well delineated and not in a simplistic way like most films. Dude was a bully but he loved his kids big time. He raised them the only way he knew how.

    Some think the film is autobiographical (of Terrence Malick).

    P.S. Call me thick but even at the end of the film I wasn’t sure which kid grew up to be Sean Penn. Had to get the answer from wikipedia. 😦

  137. “My mother used to tell me you have to swallow something as large as a pack of cigarettes to really choke on it in to the point of danger but I’ve never believed her.”

    Absolutely not true. A 1/2″ marble is the perfect size.

    ET – don’t worry about injuring your FIL. There is no contraindication to CPR except a conscious patient. Rib fractures are very, very common – as well as other injuries. If you fail he is dead anyway.

  138. It might be further added that from what I have heard the Japanese are also some of the most racist bunch on the face of the Earth. (I’m talking natives, not Japanese-Americans.)

  139. Rutherford, I thought the acting from the childeren in the film was top notch. Also, the interaction between the babies/kids and the parents seemed so real. Usually kids in movies are so unbelievable you think your watching Mikey liking his Life cereal.

  140. As someone who spent some years in the EMS field I can tell you airway obstruction is a big deal.
    First your patient is often awake and in frantic mode,thats an understatement but you get it.
    If its a kid and the parents & relatives are there it is worse.
    Failure to clear the airway in the conscious patient has an obvious course. This actually isn’t the worse thing in the world for the rescuer. The “audience” doesn’t dig it though.
    FWIW and PF may be able to relate. Obstructions never bothered me as much as insidious things like epiglottitis. In MA we were limited to needle crichs in the field. NO Substitution for a trach.

  141. MANY fewer gun deaths in Japan.

    Its an empty statement. It has no meaning on its own. None. If the overall murder rate went up or stayed the same, tell me what meaning this statement has?

    Alfie is he gives me the benefit of the doubt

    As do I that you “know” what you are saying. I give you the benefit of the doubt for being more intelligent than the average Joe. If I am mistaken I can reevaluate my assessment of you.

    One minute I’m an affirmative action beneficiary and the next I’m privileged. Make up your mind

    I’m sorry was my statement inaccurate ?

    Ahhh playing the a$$hole again. I point you to the example that disproves your theory. James Carville and Mary Matalin have two daughters. I’m pretty sure this was the result of his “f*cking” her.

    If you honestly thought that was my point, then maybe a reevaluation is indeed in order.

  142. “Sorry but I can’t resist … I have to ask you my eight year old’s question — “You ate a dog-shit brownie?”” – R

    That’s so funny R. When I was typing it I knew someone would jump on it. I just figured it would be one of the wildlife euthanasia superheroes. Well done.

  143. PF, actually the damage was from the Heimlich, probably after he was on his back. I tore the upper part of his stomach. It took a while before he no longer had a pulse.

    R, I really don’t find myself that paranoid about choking or seeing someone choke. I try not to think about it. But I do wish my children hadn’t been there. They managed to handle it far better than I thought they would though. I think their momma’s distress was the most traumatic for them.

  144. Thor, I hate to pile on too, but what you said about the deer population and hunting is simply wrong and I can prove it with an example.

    Texas and Oklahoma, deer hunting is like a national holiday. Every year, about a zillion orange suited maniacs set up their blinds and blast away in the Fall.

    However, the biggest problem in both states is not a shortage of deer to shoot, but the fact that several people a year are injured with deer coming over the hood of the car and through the window. Deer are the most common roadkill you will find on our roads.

    Ten years ago, I spun out on a two lane highway around dusk in a company car to barely miss an entire herd. And what they say about a doe in headlights is true. The dumb beasts didn’t run off until I got out of the car to inspect for damage. Just sat their chewing.

    Fortunately, I ended up two wheels on the shoulder and two in the grass. No harm, except a few years off my life and a need for a box of Depends.

    The deer were so numerous in Oklahoma a couple of years back they had special hunts for does to control the population.

  145. James, thanks for 132. They won’t buy it from me, but perhaps they will from you. They don’t like my politics, they mostly agree with you. Therefore, nary a peep. Hypocrites.

  146. Rabbit, agreed on the kids acting. Maybe my first review was too harsh. I was just thrown by that 2001 Space Odyssey interlude in the first third of the film and the dream sequences later on. I’m kinda surprised the oldest boy grew up to be semi-successful cos he looked like a future nutjob to me … very brooding and never all that happy.

  147. “Enjoy your overly fat, corn fed beef and I’ll enjoy my ORGANIC venison…” – G

    Most of the deer taken around here are grain fed, they love their wheat fields.

    But please keep telling me how little I know about this subject.

  148. If you honestly thought that was my point, then maybe a reevaluation is indeed in order.

    The only way to respond to an idiotic statement is to take you literally and give you a counter example.

    Let me expand to your level of profound abstraction. I strongly suspect James and Mary are equal partners in their marriage. Neither one impresses me as the type to be bossed around by the other (or “f*cked” to use your jargon).

  149. Sure thing. You know nothing about this topic and I find your ignorance mildly entertaining.

    R should I repost my questions or are you still trying to figure out your response. Don’t want to rush you.

  150. “I hate to pile on Thor … you know I love you man … but this comment from G really did hit home with me. The slaughter house that you cite as a humanitarian alternative to hunting is anything but.” – R

    Pile on all you want. Any time we disagree it “blows” up Nag’s dick sucking theories. 😉

    R, you’re missing the point. With all the beef being raised, there is no reason that someone has to seek out a wild animal to murder. The funny thing is, they accuse me of being a wimp, but they aren’t even men enough to admit they like killing. Instead, they make up stupid excuses about the necessity of their actions. Pure bullshit. That’s why you don’t see G and Rabbit roaming the streets with their humanitarian legions, culling the herds of rats and feral cats to control their population. A rodent head mounted over the fireplace doesn’t impress your buddies too much.

  151. You would easly survive. You would just get laughed at. It would be funny. Thor, champion of the proletariat, gettiing mocked. Probably even get some cat calls, Edie.

  152. For starters, moder beef is bad for you. It usually tastes like shit. Free range is expensive. Venison back strap is the tastiest flesh on Earth. Venison is low in fat. Venison and Beef apples and oranges. Thor, they can grow meat in a lab. Eat that.

  153. “. . .his shoes are worn worse then anyone of us sorry saps.”

    Oh, I am confident that is not the case. There are plenty of worn treads around here. Life can be a bitch but I’ve hardly seen the worst of it.

  154. Thor, there is great excitement when, after 7 hours of pure silence, your senses connected to every ebb and flow of the woods, and a buck slowly walks into view. So there you go. I admit it. As any other hunter would. Nice try. As for rats, I scream like a bitch when I see them and have no desire to eat cats. By the way, Edie, what’s for din din tonight?

  155. I’ve eaten both rat and cat, and in my youth I did a lot to help control feral populations. I’ve hunted my entire life and have no mounts on the wall. Zero. Last year I shot a yearling “unicorn” because it needed to get culled. He’s in my freezer now.

    Secondly, corn molasses feed used for cattle is unnatural for cattle- they don’t digest it well, which is why grass fed beef is ALWAYS better tasting. Deer eating wheat and grains in the field is not even remotely close to corn meal feed. Not even a little.

    I eat what I hunt. But yeah, I enjoy the hunt. Its a challenge and not nearly as easy as you might think. I don’t relish the kill, and even feel bad about it at times, but I recognize that it does serve a purpose.

  156. Gorilla, how much Bailey’s did you add to that coffee? Novel idea of how to dust the house…” – Raji

    Enough 🙂

    I like to think outside the box…

  157. Pile on all you want. Any time we disagree it “blows” up Nag’s dick sucking theories. 😉

    LOL never thought about it that way. I hate to interfere with Noah’s homo-erotic fantasies. 😉

    I guess my bottom line philosophy is I’d rather not think about how the sausage gets made. I know when I eat a burger or venison (which I don’t think I’ve ever eaten) that it’s dead animal meat. Plain and simple. The fact that no matter how you cut it we (human beings) have an unfair advantage over our prey is something I bury in the recesses of my brain.

    I fully understand and applaud vegetarians. There is something to be said for the most intelligent being on the planet being able to choose NOT to kill other beings for their own sustenance.

    But allow me to throw this thread in a more scientific direction. This to the two medical geeks on the panel — PF and Tex — is the notion that a vegetarian diet can provide all the necessary nutrition that we need, a myth? Since we are omnivores by nature, do we actually need meat in order to be the most healthy?

  158. Rabbit, in calling Thor “Edie” I must admit you’ve stumbled upon the great irony of Thor and my existence. And you’ve done so consistently since you first came here a few years ago. Namely ….

    Many of the folks for whom we (me, Thor, Newt) advocate wouldn’t have anything to do with us. 🙂

  159. “Many of the folks for whom we (me, Thor, Newt) advocate wouldn’t have anything to do with us”

    Rutherford, you are a thinking man. Think about what you just said.

  160. re: omnivores. Yes, we can do that, but if you look at our teeth, we have only rudimentary canines; it would seem to me that most of our food should be vegetarian. Also given the risks of a hairless, slow, weak ape’s tangling with prey, veggies sound like the way to go.

  161. You’re welcome, thor. I don’t really fit into any catagory.

    The Japanese, in my opinion are like Vulcans. They repressed their violent natures because to do otherwise would destroy their densely populated society. They present a patina of quietude and civility while underneath a cauldren of potential violence waits to bubble to the surface. Yes, they are racists, and so are Koreans, some of whom are my relatives.

    Europeans, for all of their liberality are also intollerant of people different from themselves. The Lithuanians for example, were warned about their overt racist comments when Lithuania played Nigeria. One of the fans asked to leave didn’t understand. They behaved no differently than they did at home.

    The way to get a long in Finland is to be white. Swedes call Fins mongroloid mongols with slanted eyes. Africians are no angels either. How many have brutally killed each other because they were of the wrong tribe?

    As Michael Savage observed, we are still neolithic folk sitting beside a campfire.

    If you wonder what goes on inside the mind of a mass killer, look inside of your head. Hell knows no fury like an eighteen-year old boy or girl with a weapon. Most of us under the right conditions would prove it no matter what our ages.

    I agree with 177.

  162. Also given the risks of a hairless, slow, weak ape’s tangling with prey, veggies sound like the way to go.

    Hey speak for yourself. I for one know that Rabbit is a hairy fast strong Ape. …. or is that Gorilla? 😉

  163. I told you I found a video of an 8mm movie camera a soldier took on a mission in Vietnam. The song he used was “Born to be Wasted” by 009 Sound System.

    There is something about killing and breaking things. Its one reason we invented religion.

    “your mind’s on fire but its not enough
    ah baby…out loud knew that it would come to this
    ain’t worth livin if u can’t get your kicks

    this gun’s blowin up
    its just a warning shot
    the plane’s takin off on a terror run
    this night’s gonna end like a missile drop
    we were born to be wasted.

  164. We slow hairless animals are not so harmless. We can run down most animals until they are so exhausted they can barely move. Remember, our ancestors wiped out our Neanderthal cousins, and who knows how many other species of humans.

    An old Vietnam saying, “Yeah though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil. I am the baddest SOB in the valley!”

  165. Africians are no angels either.

    Now I’m no fan of generalizations but I have to wonder if there is something amiss with Kenyan men. Over the weekend I watched an old interview with Tom Morello, the lead guitarist for Rage Against the Machine and an outspoken activist. What I learned was that his mother was white and his father was a Kenyan who abandoned him. That got me thinking about Obama whose mother was white and whose father was pretty much a douchebag Kenyan.

    I wonder if there is something in the Kenyan male culture that encourages assholiness. Of course I realize I’m extrapolating from a non-scientific sample of two.

    BTW, at 9am every day to signal the start of my workday, my iPhone plays an excerpt of this:

    Come wit it now!!!!

  166. With all the beef being raised, there is no reason that someone has to seek out a wild animal to murder.

    Ahh more ignorance. I know a LOT of poor people who go fishing/hunting for their DAILY meal. Hundreds in my city alone, that I know personally.

    Regardless of this fantasy world you live in quire-boy, humans have had a massive impact on how nature works. Especially in our country, the balance is out of whack. Being a left wing wacko activist doesn’t change this fact. It is the responsible thing to do to keep the populations such that the environment can sustain them. Go eat some tofu.

  167. The Swiss build demolition devices in their infrastructure. They can blow up their own bridges if attacked. I would not feel comfortable living in that environment, but it supposedly has kept them safe from attack.

    The Japanese have a strong sense of pride and national loyalty. Suicide is not considered weak or defeatist in their culture. Just the opposite. They’d rather kill themselves than face shame. It is considered somewhat noble and almost expected. Save face. Kamikaze.

    Venison cured right is excellent and very healthy. If it isn’t prepared right, it’s some of the worse tasting crap around. Deer hunting has kept plenty of my friends in meat through tough times. Javelina is pretty tasty too. Bison is yummy and healthy, though takes a little getting used to. Grass fed beef is the way to go for beef lovers, like me. Once you get off the antibiotic feedlot crap, you won’t go back. I can’t eat hamburgers or steaks at most venues. I’m totally spoiled.

    I love to trout fish and I’ve poked worms and cut them in half, used grasshoppers, grubs, and flies, killing plenty in the process. A fish too little gets tossed back. Sometimes it lives with a hook that it swallowed and I just cut the line. I would rather sacrifice a hook than tear the insides of a fish up that I have no intention of keeping. I’ve caught several with other hooks lodged in them.

    My eldest has no problem stabbing worms. My youngest can’t do it and rather dad put the worm on the hook. But I do remove bugs from my house in the same way Thor does. Hell, I even avoid stepping on ants when I can see them. Unnecessary killing is not on my agenda. But if you’re a black widow, you’re just as good as dead in my world.

    I find it hard to believe any real man does not melt when Sade sings. I fell in love the first time I heard her.

    Nice that the media has solved the Sikh temple massacre. Like others, it doesn’t actually fit eye witness accounts, but hey, who cares? It makes for headlines and a good narrative.

  168. The Japanese have a strong sense of pride and national loyalty. Suicide is not considered weak or defeatist in their culture. Just the opposite. They’d rather kill themselves than face shame. It is considered somewhat noble and almost expected. Save face.

    This is very true. The people I deal with in Japan put this above all else. If i run into a problem where I need something resolved, I have to be very careful that my rep over there does not get the blame placed on him. I have had situations where we found out the person I am dealing with screwed up, (I even said it was no big deal) and he stopped returning my calls, just because he lost face with me being blamed for doing something wrong. He was willing to lose our account just to not have to face me.

  169. Poolman here is the problem with your Sikh eyewitness video. The dude never explicitly says he was in the temple. Hence all we might be getting from him is simply a third person account. In fact he didn’t say “I saw four men”. He says between 10 and 10:30 four men did this or that. Any responsible journalist should have asked him “you saw this yourself?”

  170. The problem with many eyewitness accounts to a tragedy is that they are influenced by many factors. Among them are stress and the ego of the “witness” who finds giving exaggerated specifics self-aggrandizing.

  171. From the last thread’s 1018: SO Rutherford I am wondering about something per my post on solving some of our problems which you chose not to reciprocate.

    Do you think D.C. is corrupt?
    If yes, how do you propose we solve it taking into consideration you are in for bigger government?

    My answer was to shrink the federal government and give the states much more power. I have to wonder how you reconcile your desire for a bigger government and thereby adding to the existing corruption with my presumption you are against said corruption.

    One of the problems you and I have Noah is you keep asking for black and white answers. There is corruption in D.C. That’s different from saying “D.C. is corrupt.” There ARE honest brokers in Washington.

    As I answered you in the prior thread, I am not for bigger government for its own sake. I am for effective government and I am not convinced that everything government touches it screws up. A pundit (I don’t recall who) over the weekend remarked that our government had to grow from the days of the founding fathers because our society became more complex. This makes perfect sense to me.

    I’m not a policy wonk. I have no original prescriptions to get corruption out of federal government. Certainly turning lots of stuff to the states guarantees nothing. State legislatures are as full of corrupt pols as the federal gov is.

    A few things I’ve heard that make sense to me:

    1. Term limits.
    2. No more revolving door between elected/appointed positions and lobbying firms.
    3. Audit the Fed (of course one has to trust the auditor).
    4. Apply austerity budgets to all fed agencies (in an attempt to stop the shameless junkets we’ve been hearing about).
    5. Reverse/modify Citizen’s United ruling to prevent undue corporate influence in elections.

    When it comes to corruption, that’s where I would start.

  172. [One of the problems you and I have Noah is you keep asking for black and white answers. ]

    No I am asking you for once in your miserable life to take a stand on something. You are 72 shades of gray. The non answer seems to be your most common answer. One of my greatest curiosities is why the left goes so far out of their way to make sure they don’t give an answer that might hold them accountable to an opinion.

    There is black Rutherford. There is White Rutherford. Just as their is right and wrong.

    [I am not for bigger government for its own sake.]

    Few thinking people would say this…so another…goes without saying statement. An assumed truth that could have probably not been bothered with. Tells us almost nothing.

    [ I am for effective government]

    See above paragraph.

    [I am not convinced that everything government touches it screws up.]

    In DC there is only one eatery that has never turned a profit in its entire existence. That is the government run cafeteria for the congress and other members of government. They can’t make a freaking cafeteria turn a profit in DC, with all that money. Please.

    [I’m not a policy wonk. I have no original prescriptions to get corruption out of federal government. Certainly turning lots of stuff to the states guarantees nothing.]

    So you are only interested in a solution that “guarantees” an outcome? This seems inconsistent with a lot of the things you support. I bet I could find a half dozen things you have supported on little more than a hope and a prayer.

    But truth is it does guarantee something. It guarantees that power is shifted away from DC. If they don’t have the power, then why lobby them? Why try to influence them? Does it not make it a lot more daunting task to have to go and try influence 50 states than it does a group who can impose their will on all?

  173. Rutherford, another problem with eye witness accounts is that people can remember what is untrue or is altered. Our minds can play tricks on us.

    I would start with the list of five too, only the labor unions need to be included too. They spend a lot of cash and in kind money.

    I also take large spiders out of the house.

  174. Hey Rutherford can I put words in your mouth?
    I am not for bigger government for its own sake
    I can imagine you have fits of angst if ever you have to reconcile this with your inner Keynesian but…. I think perhaps it is a start to kill that little booger. So Rutherford,for clarifications sake do you mean you don’t think bureaucracy should grow simply because the beast says go bigger.?
    I am not convinced that everything government touches it screws up
    I think that one is pretty B&W A person who is open to a discussion should see that it is both an opinion and a supportable statement. In both cases one can disagree with the examples available but that isn’t the fault of anyone really.
    Certainly turning lots of stuff to the states guarantees nothing
    This one really moved me since it is the truth. Perhaps some of the folks here live in a state,county,municipality that has a great government set up. The same folks may have rainbows and monkeys flying out of their butts too. Seriously is there any reason to believe that some big ticket issues would’ve gone better if left to the states? It isn’t a winner take all kind of thing man. There are some things the feds do that would probably experience better outcomes if the states controlled said item. Health care,welfare and job training programs are great examples. On the flip side was America really supposed to wait for bigots to allow the black kid to go to school with little Johnny and Molly???

  175. Audit the Fed? You are in the wrong party. It’s interesting watching the upper echelon of Democratic Party increasingly close the ranks around the Federal Reserve. Romney said he doesn’t think another round of QE would be very effective and Debbie Shultz reprimanded Romney, reminding us all that the Fed is teflon and it’s none of Romney or anyone else’s business to chide them. The Democratic Party simply can’t exist without deficit spending. And deficit spending can’t exist without the Federal Reserve’s new found love of buying up T bills while cheapening the dollar. I don’t care what Barney Frank says, the Federal Reserve is a cancer to a functioning republic. They hold the purse strings now. That’s not how I was taught it works in elementary school.

  176. Thanks Noah for ignoring the five prescriptions.

    I’ll admit it, it was intentional. Wanted you to have a feel when the meat of an argument is ignored. Keep that in mind in the future. On to your points.

    1. Agreed.
    2. Agreed.
    3. Agreed.
    4. I am on the fence on this one.
    5. You will have to be specific on this point for me to comment.

  177. Is there anything worse then a Nazi? WTF is wrong with these people. The game is over. It was a disaster. Hard to believe people still get into that shit. That dumb ass Nazi probably didn’t even realize he was killing the orginal Arayans.

  178. Doesn’t even surprize me that the baby killer said that. How could you wake up and kill babies everyday and NOT believe you are a pioneer of Eugenics. One of the pro lifers said it perfectly. Give us a chance to adopt.

  179. I know this is almost sacrilegious as a red blood, American male to say this, but I think venison tastes like crap.

    I’ll take an antibiotic, grain fed, cud chewing rib eye or even a beef burger over deer anytime, anyplace.

    And since I like James, I’m sorry I have to do this. But every once in a while, I find someone who reconciles for me I’m on the right path of ending this baloney Romney tax three ring circus.

    http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/obama%E2%80%99s-college-classmate-the-obama-scandal-is-at-columbia/

  180. Elk, moose, deer- all better than beef. You like the marbling in the steak, which gives it flavor and moisture.

    But nothing beats the back straps off of wild game. Nothing.

  181. You like the marbling in the steak, which gives it flavor and moisture.

    Damn straight – I’ll chew that fat like artery clogging bubble gum. Give me another one of those statins, and pass the marbling.

    I’ve even tried mixing the venison with beef, and the gamey taste overwhelms the beef. Plus, I find deer pretty “stringy”, almost like jerky.

    P.S. – I’ve been having a good time tonight lighting up Ensign Wesley Crusher, aka Wil “Beaver” Wheaton, for his slam on the Chick-Fil-A support, of which that vapid little coward has now backtracked on his original post already. I’m not not letting the little pussy off the hook for his while trying now to play peace maker after he was blasted by thousands.

    Undoubtedly, Wheaton is quite the gay marriage activist though apparently straight (I have my doubts), and has created quite a following of dink Trekkies. Wheaton was the one character in that TNG series that somebody should have chopped his head off with a Klingon bat leth. Would have made for great TV.

    http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://images.auctionworks.com/hi/3/3282/profiles-batleth.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.fark.com/comments/5698391/Seized-by-feds-in-a-$35-million-Medicare-fraud-bust-rifles-shotguns-handguns-a-batleth-brass-knuckles-pistols-collapsible-ba-wait-a-minute-go-back-a-couple&h=840&w=2199&sz=102&tbnid=_uf6-nSvI35SzM:&tbnh=47&tbnw=122&zoom=1&usg=__VyTn88eROqsEYVSlflAq3p2dxZ0=&docid=3lvnlm6h9cWjqM&sa=X&ei=YpogUIfxAoq42wX-loGIDg&ved=0CGkQ9QEwBg&dur=575

  182. My friend, bring your happy ass to Virginia and I’ll make a believer out of you in wild game. Once you go Gorilla Wild, you never go back! 🙂

  183. A planned act of terror and cover up. Yep. That’s what I think it was/is. FBI’s right in the middle of it again. Do you know their record on inciting and enabling acts of terror?

    But stick to your script, Magilla. You and the media are sucking the same teat.

  184. The man was a decorated Army veteran psychological warfare specialist and white supremacist who has been watched with concern by anti-hate groups for more than 10 years. Yeah, the SPLC had his number. He was on a watch list. Whatever that means. Now he’s not.

  185. Tex, have you ever had back strap venison, seared on the grill with some pepper and a dash of salt? I’m with Gorilla, there is nothing better. Even a Ruth Chris (spelling?) filet doesn’t compete. Nothing compares to it in the meat world and it’s good for you to boot!

  186. Droolman. Your getting pretty boring. A link to info wars? Dude, give the Alex Jones shit a rest. It’s like Coast to Coast radio. It doesn’t even pretend to be serious.

  187. “just an fyi thor, I spent 7 years working with the DNR and Parks and Recreations services.” – Nag

    Tilling smoldering pine needles while chained to your cell mate doesn’t exactly qualify you as Jacques Cousteau.

  188. Canadian Goose is the most disgusting tasting meat I’ve ever had. I refuse to believe even a great outdoorsman like Gorillia could prepare Goose that isn’t nasty.

  189. Ha ha, goose is hard. Trick, soak the goose in milk over night. Same with liver. It pulls the iron flavoring out of the meat. Soak, then rinse and season with thyme, rosemarry, basil and salt and pepper. I like to roast with veggies, especially fennel.

    Good stuff!!!

  190. “Thor couldn’t navigate blue collar Detroit for a minute. His union brothers and fellow Dems, the little guy he argues will benifit so much from a larger, more involved government, his comrads, would bust his fembot balls so bad he would head back to the West Coast a broken spirit.” – DR

    Dude, you don’t have a clue. You obviously think all of Washington State is the same. Have you ever been to Spokane? This is the center of the universe when it comes to gun-toting, union hating, Obama bashing, survivalist, homophobic ignorance.

    Detroit blue collar whatever. You guys are one good ice dam away from being Canadian. 🙂

  191. “Thor, there is great excitement when, after 7 hours of pure silence, your senses connected to every ebb and flow of the woods, and a buck slowly walks into view. So there you go. I admit it. As any other hunter would. Nice try.” – DR

    Rabbit, you have stated before that you’re not big on reading, but if you ever change that mindset, you might enjoy “Moontrap” by Don Berry. It’s set in the Oregon Territory. There is a passage toward the end that is closely akin to what you expressed here. James, I think it would be up your alley as well.

  192. “Pack meat sandwhiches and go on a hike funded by hunters, oblivious where the money comes from. In fact, one of the greatest fears conservationists have right now is the declining numbers of hunters. We provide sanctuary to the animals that you enjoy. Hate to say it, but your petty park pass ain’t paying the bills. Thank a hunter for your free ride.”

    Bullshit. The vast majority of wild lands in this state are Wilderness Areas, National Parks, National Forests and BLM, none of which are maintained or paid for by state tags. Maybe they do it differently in Michigan.

  193. “The vast majority of wild lands in this state are Wilderness Areas, National Parks, National Forests and BLM, none of which are maintained or paid for by state tags”

    Money is fungible. You cannot say which dollar goes to which purpose, but supposedly the $1 billion paid in licensing fees, etc. by sportsmen allows the govt to put an additional $1B in wildlife and game management. That’s a billion they wouldn’t have otherwise. No matter how you spin it, that’s a goodly amount of money.

  194. The accusations come when you challenge the system:

    When I feed the hungry, they call me a saint. When I ask why people are hungry, they call me a communist. -Helder Camara, archbishop (1909-1999)

  195. I like the article Tex. One of the comments is also something to think about. Someone wrote that he doesn’t believe we will have an election this fall. That may be the October Surprise. I think we will have an election, but idle speculation is fun.

    A former member of Joan Jett’s band attended law school with Obama. He was so well known for pomposisty that some of his classmates invented an Obamaism scale.

    I don’t like don’t like deer or goose meat either.

  196. So Rutherford,for clarifications sake do you mean you don’t think bureaucracy should grow simply because the beast says go bigger.?

    Alfie, absolutely. It happens in corporate all the time … need a question answered? Go form a committee. It’s ridiculous.

    I think this is where unthinking conservatives make their mistake. They think liberals LIKE bloated government whereas I think most liberals view bloated government as a necessary consequence of getting things done. Maybe that’s a distinction without a difference but assuming the former really doesn’t give libs any credit for intelligence.

    Regarding turning stuff over to the states, I think you expressed it very well. One yardstick might be, the more personal the service/program the closer to the recipient that program should be administered. This would support the notion of welfare, healthcare, etc. being managed at the state and local levels.

  197. The Democratic Party simply can’t exist without deficit spending.

    I think it can be stated categorically that our country cannot exist without deficit spending. As many have acknowledged in these hallowed halls there will be much pain if we start living within our means.

  198. Ha Ha! Rutherford. i also hope Jeff Gordon wins the championship.

    I agree normal liberals don’t like blotted governments, but a new breed from the sixties and earlier do want big government and regulatitory constraints on the population because of the power it gives them to change our political and economic culture to match their eutopian goals.

  199. Noah, here is some clarification on “5”

    5. Reverse/modify Citizen’s United ruling to prevent undue corporate influence in elections.

    I supported the Supreme’s decision in this case on only one ground and that was protection of free speech. Everything else about it stinks to high heaven. We cannot allow corporations with financial assets far beyond those of “mortal men” to dictate the direction of our elections. To do so essentially sets up a plutocracy. Since we cannot eliminate freedom of expression, I would modify the Citizen’s United ruling to place a cap on corporate contributions to SuperPacs etc.

    The other possible solution is mandated public financing of campaigns since campaign budgets are out of control anyway. Millions upon millions of dollars being spent trying to get elected in an environment of crippling debt. It makes no sense.

    P.S. I believe it was in 2010, I interviewed a Dem primary candidate for a House seat from Pennsylvania on my Internet radio show. When I asked him what his potential constituents thought about this or that issue, he replied that he didn’t know because all of his time was spent fund raising. I ask you … what’s wrong with that picture?

  200. Deficite spending has its place if it is controlled. However, the road we are on will one day force us into painfull austerity. It is in out future whether or not we impose it on our selves. If we reduce spending as Republicans urge, people will suffer., though temporarily as Estonia learned.

    If we continue to ignore the problem, there will either be no money to continue government programs, or cash will be so devalued most of us will live in poverty.

    Back when Argentina had high inflation, people bought appliances in the morning so they could sell them in the evening at a profit.

  201. “The accusations come when you challenge the system:

    When I feed the hungry, they call me a saint. When I ask why people are hungry, they call me a communist. -Helder Camara, archbishop (1909-1999).”

    That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. And that’s saying alot.

  202. The antidote to aggregate political speech from within the government itself is aggregated speech from the public. It is not the problem. Citizens United is the right decision. The only reason Rutherford doesn’t like it is because he perceives his party to be on the receiving end of the messaging.

    Now that Romney’s fund raising is outpacing Obama’s, you can expect a lot more from the left about “bought” elections and so-called reform. Three years ago it was proof of the popularity of the left’s political views.

  203. I think most liberals view bloated government as a necessary consequence of getting things done.

    Rutherford, sometimes I believe your brain has gone soft. Maybe it always was. This statement makes about as much sense as a typical Poolman link, the statement we have to pass it to find out what is in it, or my favorite: “It is the biggest bang for the buck when you do food stamps and unemployment insurance. ”

    If you think government the problem to our answers, couldn’t you at least make the attempt to minimize the bloat? 🙄

    Sorry Mr. Rutherford. Liberals are incapable of solving what ills us. Your party has neither the sense nor the principle to solve the little problems, much less what ails us. Frankly, most of you can’t even manage your own lives without help.

    If I am wrong, tell me what you have solved with your bloated government? Give me a big success…not some Lily Ledbetter proclamation – even Obama didn’t follow that one.

  204. “I think it can be stated categorically that our country cannot exist without deficit spending. As many have acknowledged in these hallowed halls there will be much pain if we start living within our means.”

    Well, we are truly in a world of shit, because you cannot live beyond your means for longer that VERY temporarily. Then, horror of horrors, you have to not only live within your means, but BELOW, in order to pay the deficit you created.

    TANSTAAFL – like it or not, it is true.

  205. Gorilla, if the political agenda for abortion is to prevent future criminals from being born then we’ve got a big problem.

    Let me repeat for the umpteenth time, the only justifiable reason I find for abortion is threat to the mother’s life. That’s it. The reason I am pro-choice is because I cannot reconcile the divide between mother’s body and baby’s body and I find government legislation of a woman’s choices over her body intrusive. The collateral damage that comes with giving a woman sovereignty over her own body troubles me greatly but for the time being I feel I have to live with that.

    I am so much on the fence on this one that I could easily see myself shifting pro-life some years down the line.

  206. In fairness to Rutherford, he didn’t write that he believed most liberals think we need a bloated government to get things done.I agree, most liberals do think we need a bloated government, and increasingly large numbers want it for the power to impose their eutopian plans on the rest of us.

    They are no longer traditional liberals. What do you think Rutherford?

    We need Citizens United because to countermand the press which is a largely Democratic propaganda machine. We also need it to counterbalance the labor unions.

    Democrats bragged about the money Obama’s people brought to the campaign in 2008. It was a wonderful thing. Now that Romney is ahead, the money is dirty.

    Speaking of money, a Nevada newspaper wonders how Harry Reid became so rich on a Congressinal salary. They want to see his tax returns. I think the Romney campaign should attack Harry on his own real dishonesty. He should be isolated and discredited as Saul Alinsky would have done.

  207. I meant to write that Rutherford implied he separated himself from liberals who like bloated governments.

    Hi uaw tradesman.

  208. Is there anything worse then a Nazi? WTF is wrong with these people.

    To top that off Rabbit, apparently the dude was into “hate rock”. Holy crap. I didn’t know hate rock existed. The bands sing about killing folks. If it weren’t so sick it might be funny. One of the bands has a song with a title like “Dead Coon Boogie”.

  209. I will say you should go take a look at Conservative values R. You sound like one imo.

    My wife has said that on occasion with a look of horror on her face. 😉

  210. Here is a continuation of an earlier discussion about voter ID’s. The Examiner has an article titled “York; when 1,099 felons vote in race won by 312 ballots. ”

    Minnesota Majority took their evidence to state prosecutors, and so far, 177 have been convicted.

    Al Frankin may have stolen the election. If so, he has something in common with “Landslide Lyndon” LBJ when he ran for Congress.

    Eric Holder and others want to make it possible for the Democrats to steal this election if it is close.

    Do you remember “The Sound of Music” when Liesal’s boy friend stopped and threatened to turn the family in as they hid in the convent? “Come with us” the father said “You’re not one of them.”
    Well?

  211. Tex there is one key flaw in Mr. Root’s analysis. Harry Reid did NOT say he knows first hand that Romney paid no taxes. He said he has a reliable source. So Root is no more credible in his fishing expedition than Harry is … unless Harry is lying about his source (a distinct possibility).

    This notion that no one at Columbia knew Obama is of course nonsense. David Maraniss has written a bio of Obama (that even you have quoted to discredit Obama) and he covers the Columbia years. He obviously spoke to people who knew Obama there. The notion that Root knew everyone at Columbia is equally preposterous. I assume Columbia is not much different in size than Harvard. I did not know everyone at Harvard. I did not know everyone in the math department at Harvard. In fact, if you asked the average person in the math department at Harvard about me they would scratch their head. Even if you said “the handicapped kid” they’d still scratch their head. I was a mediocre (at best) math student and I didn’t hang with fellow math majors.

    So, in summary, Root has done a great job of fighting fire with fire against Reid. One unsubstantiated charge in response to another. Mitt won’t take Root’s advice because Mitt has too much class. Reid does NOT have class.

  212. Look up Foster the People on youtube. Pumped up Kicks was popular on mainstream radio last year.

    “found a six shooter gun
    in his dad’s closet
    oh with a box of fun
    He knows things
    I don’t need to know what
    but he’s coming for you
    he’s coming for you.

    All the other kids
    with the pumped up kicks
    you’d better run better run
    outrun my gun
    You’d better run
    faster than my bullet.”

  213. Rutherford, I don’t want to hear another word from the hypocrites from the Left about McCarthyism then. Reid is Joe McCarthy (who later happened to have been proven mostly right by the way) on steroids.

    Unfortunately, short of the real loons, mostly on the Left but some on the Right, Pelosi and Reid are the two most vicious scumbags sitting in Congress. It’s a disgrace they’re even there, much less leaders of your party.

    Because what Reid is doing is straight out rank fascism and you know it.

    I’m going to be gravely disappointed in you if you approve of these types of tactics. You’re better than that.

  214. Well, we are truly in a world of shit, because you cannot live beyond your means for longer that VERY temporarily. Then, horror of horrors, you have to not only live within your means, but BELOW, in order to pay the deficit you created.

    Damn straight. Pfesser, what bothers me is Rutherford is one of the brighter of the big government proponents and obviously doesn’t understand the ramifications of what’s coming.

    How did we get to this? I absolutely don’t understand the disconnect about how they don’t see how utterly irresponsible this current management.

  215. Gorilla, if the political agenda for abortion is to prevent future criminals from being born then we’ve got a big problem.” – R

    What, pray tell, solicited this?

    I will say this though, it sounds very liberal and Sanger-like.

  216. meretricious apparently attractive but in reality having no value or integrity.

    Harry, Nancy, and their allies. Remember the “Slow Bleed” which described their willingness to let our soldiers and Iraqis die for political gain.

    I won’t use “out run my bullet” but at the least, they should be forced to outrun a pie with inbedded rocks to the face.

  217. The difference being Root is a Las Vegas scum bag nobody gives two shits about while Reid is a powerful and corrupt elected official. What a shame. Reid should be in jail right now for Countrywide bribes. Instead he is using Mein Kamp as a playbook dividing and damaging the nation with bull shit. It’s his father that should be ashamed. That mealy mouth worm is the worst of the worst.

  218. “The collateral damage that comes with giving a woman sovereignty over her own body troubles me greatly but for the time being I feel I have to live with that.”

    Rutherford, I think you will agree that you and I really try to understand each other, despite being polar opposites on, I would say, most things. But sometimes you come up with statements that make me 95% certain that it is a futile exercise. That was one.

    *************************

    I’m pretty nuanced for the most part, but not on control of one’s own body. This sums up my thoughts on the matter:

    “Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign.” — John Stuart Mill, Essay on Liberty”

    Have you ever heard of that old boy?

    Here is the rest of it, and as a bonus, a little missive on Tyranny of the Majority:

    http://www.serendipity.li/jsmill/jsmill.htm

  219. PF, so long as you deny the collateral damage … the fact that another life is in the mix, I think you lose credibility. Maybe I’m guilty of being a wishy-washy pro-choicer but I can’t sit by and pretend that an abortion is the same as a mole removal … and I don’t care what stage of pregnancy we’re talking about.

  220. Rutherford’s so cute when he blathers about something he’s never read and has absolutely NO UNDERSTANDING of (Citizens United).

    Every time you type something about it, R, you may as well be shouting to the world “HEY! LOOK AT ME! I’M AN IGNORANT MOFO, AND I DON’T CARE!”

  221. Here is yet another piece of evidence showing we are dealing with fascists. The Daily Caller “Emails, treasury drove cut off of non-union Delphi workers’ pensions.” Timmy was the driving force which terminated 20,000 pensions with the Delphi auto parts manufacturing company.

    The move was part of the auto bailout plan and designed to sacrifice non-union workers to benefit union allies. The e mails contradict sworn testimony before courts and Congress.

    A government which damages its own citizens without cause is fascist. How can anyone support this government?

  222. Ann Romney’s horse fails to win dressage but avoids offending Bristish

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/aug/02/ann-romney-horse-dressage-medal

    “Never for a second during her seven-minute performance did a hoof stray dangerously mouthwards, nor did she do anything at all to offend or upset the host nation. From the moment she entered the Greenwich Park equestrian arena at 12.15 on Thursday afternoon, the most famous political horse since Caligula toyed with making a consul of Incitatus seemed in her element.”

  223. Present company excluded. The simpletons who put this man and his people into office are still here, and they vote. Even if Obama leaves office, we are in big trouble.

  224. Yay for the horse!

    Maybe her horse can have a chat with the mostly black women who think Gabby Douglas’ hair is styled too white.

  225. Protean Wisdom “Obama’s enemies list. First Frank Vandersloot, now Sheldon Anderson.” The president is carrying Nixon’s enemies list a step further.

  226. “PF, so long as you deny the collateral damage … the fact that another life is in the mix, I think you lose credibility. Maybe I’m guilty of being a wishy-washy pro-choicer but I can’t sit by and pretend that an abortion is the same as a mole removal … and I don’t care what stage of pregnancy we’re talking about.”

    I dont think you are wishy-washy. I appreciate your ambivalence and your willingness to say so; I just don’t understand it. I settled this question in my mind many years ago, and every argument proffered by others since that time has only strengthened my feeling that it is the right one. I think there is a natural tendency to see some kind of mystical importance to life, but I don’t see it that way. Once one sheds that POV and starts looking at the problem with complete rationality, I think the argument just falls naturally in place.

    You are one of the few people to ever change my mind on anything; show me a better argument and I’ll change on this topic, too.

    Or I could get Noah to take your head off. That’s a joke.

  227. Sorry about piling on. The Washington Post gives Harry Reid four pinocchios for his Romney paid no taxes. The scale goes no higher than four.

    Newt or no newt, what about it? Where have you been.? Or are you really NOP?

  228. Money is fungible. You cannot say which dollar goes to which purpose, – PF

    I’ll remember this the next time I get the slap down for suggesting federal budgets have something to do with funding for police, firefighters and education on a local level. 😉

  229. “You guys still on your hunting trip?” – N

    Yeah. Now we’re hunting ovaries.

    I’ve got two tags for “suburban housewife having an affair”. It’s ok though, the money goes to pay for local hospitals.

  230. They think liberals LIKE bloated government whereas I think most liberals view bloated government as a necessary consequence of getting things done

    Im sorry what? Double speak…im sorry what?

  231. thor I’m sorry but any…any… credibility you might have had has been spent on this hunting thing. You don’t have a clue and don’t care than you don’t have a clue.

  232. I asked him what his potential constituents thought about this or that issue, he replied that he didn’t know because all of his time was spent fund raising. I ask you … what’s wrong with that picture?

    Considering how much time Obama has spent on fund raising I would have to say this is a HUGE problem.

    I dont know enough about the Citizens United to have an informed opinion on the subject.

  233. “I’ve shot quail.”

    Great. NOW who’s Mitt going to pick for VP? 😉

    I’ve cooked goose. I’ve eaten goose. Goose was a friend of mine. Quail, you’re no goose!!!

  234. Hey Tex … totally off topic but I watched an interview with Penn State president the other day and he said the NCAA fine will be going toward programs fighting child abuse. It won’t go directly to the Penn State victims but if this man is to be believed it won’t line NCAA pockets either.

    Thought you’d wanna know since you expressed skepticism about the fine.

  235. Someone wrote that he doesn’t believe we will have an election this fall.

    The speculation is fun only so long as you’re sane. They’re are a good contingent of nutjobs out there just crazy enough to believe Obama will declare himself Emperor and cancel the election.

    Hell, I think on their more feverish days, both Noah and Tex believe it. 😐

  236. Does you position apply to unions R?

    Yes but I suspect this is a red herring tossed up by conservatives. Unions don’t have the financial might of Exxon.

  237. That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. And that’s saying alot.

    You know, Tigre, when you say sh*t like that you come off profoundly ignorant. You playing the old Rabbit game (that Rabbit stopped playing years ago) of avoiding the appearance of being an intellectual?

    If you can deny that challenges to the status quo are not usually welcome than I can call you an ostrich.

  238. Tigre the cancer ad is cheap shot and really silly when you get right down to it. The plant could have closed for any number of reasons and the dude would have lost his health insurance. Romney had little to do with it. The ad plucks heart strings.

    I know what Romney should counter with …. if ONLY you had lived in Massachusetts you would have had health insurance regardless ….oh never mind. 🙂

  239. Yes but I suspect this is a red herring tossed up by conservatives. Unions don’t have the financial might of Exxon.

    Thousands of Republicans who ran in Michigan campaigns in areas of heavy UAW membership over the last 40 years disagree with you, as would those candidates opposing candidates backed by the SEIU.

  240. “thor I’m sorry but any…any… credibility you might have had has been spent on this hunting thing. You don’t have a clue and don’t care than you don’t have a clue.” Nag

    Dammit. I lose my credibility around here more often than I lose my Game Boy privileges. 🙂

    Actually, you’re the only one that has not offered something of substance on this matter, except to tell us what a great expert you are on this matter. Don’t tell us, teach us.

    Engage, dammit, Engage!

    Reminds me of one of my favorite ever movies. Patton.

  241. Rutherford not that I expect it to move you in2 my column but I’d be interested in your opinion.
    PBS has spent a few Exxon/Mobil dollars in their day. Obviously the oil guys do it for a number of reasons. Would you accept that one of those reasons is to put a human face on things related?

  242. How did we get to this? I absolutely don’t understand the disconnect about how they don’t see how utterly irresponsible this current management.

    I popped into fat grannies for a moment. One of the hags there said it like this. We assigned a value to money and we decided what it was worth. All we have to do is make more, and decide it is worth more and we can pay for all our programs and debt.

    They really believe this

  243. Rutherford I know it has come up at times in the past and I shouldn’t crow too loudly before some of the speakers actually utter the words but….
    I think the GOP convention speaker list is showing some good stuff for the future. I think the Whigs will be destined to sit alone for a bit longer.

  244. Lol. For the life me I don’t get the intellectual thing. I did hide the fact I was a teacher. But being a teacher isn’t that intellectual. When you have to use phrases at work like “You smelt it, you dealt it” your job is far from intellectual. I’ve never tried to be da guy who works on da docks nor have I ever played the smarty pants role either. Sham economist maybe.

  245. All we have to do is make more, and decide it is worth more and we can pay for all our programs and debt.

    Except that we also have to get everyone else to decide that its worth that too, and its kinda tough when it takes a lot more of it to buy a thing than it did before.

  246. You caught me Rutherford. Utopian theories mostly came from Europe. You’re good.

    You are wrong, dead rabbit. teaching is intellectual. My wife taught until she retired last year, and I substituted. Herding hogs is intellectual too. Like teachers, you have to be smarter than the students and administrators. .

  247. Well then R,seems to me that the status quo is mortgaging our futures and those of our children for your unproductive and mostly counterproductive agendas. So I ask “why are you a communist?” 😆

  248. Eric Holder and others want to make it possible for the Democrats to steal this election if it is close.

    Pure bullpucky. The dude from PA is on record saying proudly the voter id reform will get Romney elected. It couldn’t be any clearer than that. The Republicans are trying to fix a nonexistent problem to give their guys the edge. It’s as simple as that.

  249. The Republicans are trying to fix a nonexistent problem to give their guys the edge. It’s as simple as that.

    1099 ineligible voters casting ballots, 177 convictions, 66 pending trials, and the only reason it wasn’t more is because of the “Duh” exception, which allows an illegal voter to escape criminal liability by saying “Duh..I dindn’t know my felony conviction means I can’t vote. Duh.”

    http://washingtonexaminer.com/york-when-1099-felons-vote-in-race-won-by-312-ballots/article/2504163

    Just how many illegal votes does it take before the problem “exists” on your planet, Rutherford?

  250. I am right about this,. Look at Holder’s record. Consider the illegal voters convicted in Minnesota and the non-citizen registrations in Florida. Holder is fighting the states which try to keep their elections honest. Even more blatant is the man who was able to register as Eric Holder.

    Maybe illegal votes wouldn’t so concern Republicans if they benefited, but this basically a Democratic phenominom.

    Democrats have shown they will do anything to win this election. “Its as simple as that.”

  251. Thought you’d wanna know since you expressed skepticism about the fine.

    Letting the corrupted NCAA deal with money is like letting the Human Rights Council of the U.N. deal with money. I’m sure they’ll collect, but they won’t deliver anything of substance. Food for Oil force any recall?

    What a sham. 😡

  252. Present company excluded. The simpletons who put this man and his people into office are still here, and they vote. Even if Obama leaves office, we are in big trouble.

    Ah, no. There are several people here who voted for this clown, and while some have begged forgiveness, not all of present company have come to terms with the depth of harm they have caused themselves and the rest of us by voting for this guy. So no, no exclusions. If you’re stupid enough to even be remotely close to considering this clown, well, you’re a threat to liberty and sound judgement everywhere.

    Present company deserves ridicule and condemnation.

  253. Why R, your peeps are pretty stupid…

    Elizabeth Warren demanded Monday that Senator Scott Brown release more of his tax returns. The only problem was that Brown, her Republican rival, had already released six years of tax returns while Warren has refused to release more than four years of her filings.

    Asked to reconcile that apparent conflict, Warren backed off her demand, saying today that six years was enough. She did not, however, offer to release any more of her IRS filings.

  254. Maybe her horse can have a chat with the mostly black women who think Gabby Douglas’ hair is styled too white.

    James, did you see that sh*t? I swear sometimes I wanna throw black folks way under the bus. The girl achieves the pinnacle of success and all the dumbass brothers and sisters can do is talk about her hair. Goddam!

  255. Oh wise one BiW please give us a primer on Citizen’s United.

    1. Was it not decided based on the First Amendment? If so, I got that one right.

    2. Does it not allow unlimited spending by corporations on ads that express political opinion (and tacitly support a candidate)? If so, I got that right.

    You wanna make clear where I’m wrong. I said I supported the decision based on point 1 above. If point 1 is wrong, then maybe I need to stop supporting the decision.

  256. “I swear sometimes I wanna throw black folks way under the bus. The girl achieves the pinnacle of success and all the dumbass brothers and sisters can do is talk about her hair. Goddam!”

    On the way here to the beach my wife and I stopped at a Denneys for lunch. Three black yutes came in, the two men holding their pants up about mid-femur level with a thumb and forefinger, wearing $200 tennis shoes and various gold teeth/bling. You know the type well.

    After looking at the menu, they had a brief, but loud, discussion. They didn’t have enough money with them to buy their lunches, and walked out.

    Probably half the patrons in the place just looked at each other, smiled and shook their heads. They were all I’m sure thinking just what I was: you people need to get your priorities straight.

    These are the kind of people who reinforce the stereotypes, Rutherford. They do more damage than 100 white bigots or a box ful of “dog whistles.” Black folks are never going to do well unill they stop tolerating idiots like that and tell them:

    “Turn your goddamned hat around, wear appropriate clothing, put the money for your gold crowns and whole-body tattoos in the bank.

    And by the way, you look like a fool with your pants on the ground.”

  257. Personally, I am sick of the movie theater display by blacks. Can’t go to a movie anywhere near a black neighborhood or bus route. What a God awful way to display blackness. Purposly ruining a movie for everyone. Awesome.

  258. The youth have been hanging out (literally) for at least 10 years now. I thought that stupid trend was going to go away in a hurry, not because it looked so stupid, which it does, but because they had to keep a hand in play all the time keeping the right exposure without totally losing it. It cracks me up how damned dumb people can be. But, hey, it’s cool. 😆 Gawd we’re fucked.

  259. cool pilot story – just passing it on…

    Once upon a time, a pilot asked a beautiful princess,

    “Will you marry me?”…………The princess said, “No!”

    And the pilot lived happily ever after and flew jets all over the world and drove hot cars and chased skinny long-legged big-breasted flight attendants and hunted and fished and went to topless bars and dated women half his age and drank Weihenstephaner German beer and Captain Morgan and never heard bitching and never paid child support or alimony and kept his house and guns and ate cold leftover meals, potato chips and beans and blew enormous farts and never got cheated on while he was at work and all his friends and family thought he was frickin’ cool as hell and he had tons of money in the bank and left the toilet seat up……..

    The end.

  260. Yes, it is awful, Rutherford.Gabby is a beautiful young woman who represented her country and sport very well. She could have been bald for all of the difference it would make.

    You are right, gorrilla. I am too polite sometimes. Its easier to insult people you don’t know.

  261. Perhaps, English is their second language, gorrilla.

    “Jeg har krabbet hele livet, hwert steg har funnet vueb ut og
    jeg skal aldn tilbake did igjen. “

  262. “Its no surprise that many voters have serious feeling of buyers remorse. But our shameless media have no remorse at all for foisting this man on the country, and no capacity for embarrassment that they put him on Mount Rushmore without an accomplishment to his name. Its too bad America can’t vote to send the media packing. But they can, and should turn off the nightly narratives lamely called a :”newscast.”

  263. PBS has spent a few Exxon/Mobil dollars in their day. Obviously the oil guys do it for a number of reasons. Would you accept that one of those reasons is to put a human face on things related?

    Alfie I assume you’re posting this vis-a-vis Citizen’s United. Clearly any intelligent company advertises on or outright funds shows that reflect the image they want out there. That to me seems different from funding an ad promoting a political POV that goes just short of saying “vote for so-and-so.” In the first case, the objective is to attract customers. In the second, the objective is to trigger political action on the part of the viewer.

  264. I think the GOP convention speaker list is showing some good stuff for the future.

    I actually agree. I think this is one of the strangest f*cking elections in some time. All the A-list players want to take a back seat. Assuming they (Ryan, Rubio, J.Bush, Christie) step up, 2016 is gonna be one interesting election year.

    This time it’s a total yawner and the GOP has only itself to blame. As I’ve said before, I honestly don’t think they want the job that badly. Let Obama drown in the manure for another four years, hoping things improve slightly and then jump in. No one wants the situation as it currently exists.

  265. But being a teacher isn’t that intellectual.

    Not in and of itself maybe Rabbit but you’ve written some of the smartest stuff on this blog over the years, not just showing depth of thought but really original expression. That’s the sign of an intellectual in my book. Besides, you’ve got one of the most eclectic music tastes I’ve ever encountered.

  266. Duh..I dindn’t know my felony conviction means I can’t vote. Duh.

    Nice try BiW but a fail. Voter id laws center around proving you are who you say you are, not whether or not you’re a convicted felon. The last time I looked, former felons don’t lose their driving privileges. They’ve got a valid picture id in the form of a driver’s license and if they show up to vote they’re in like Flynn. The problem is that they wind up on the voter roll in the first place.

    Some of the restrictions being put in place in Florida for example have nothing to do with fouled up voter rolls. They have to do with restricting early voting days, meaning that black church congregations that used to bus congregants to the polls on Sunday for early voting can no longer do so. Furthermore the ids required to vote (not to register) disproportionately limit the ability of poor, minorities and elderly to vote.

    Every time you give me some cock and bull story about rampant voter fraud, I will throw Mike Turzai in your face. Why don’t you stop the facade and just re-implement the poll tax? 👿

  267. Maybe illegal votes wouldn’t so concern Republicans if they benefited, but this basically a Democratic phenominom.

    Sorry James, more nonsense. On my radio show yesterday a listener in the chat room posted two instances of so-called voter fraud … both benefiting Republicans.

    Neither party has a monopoly on honesty and shame on you for suggesting otherwise.

    See above comment to BiW regarding Mike Turzai. Whenever I hear these righteous defenses of voter id laws my reply is “Mike Tuzai”.

    Nuff said.

  268. R – in Virginia and West Virginia, at least, convicted felons cannot vote. If, however, they have remained at the foot of the cross for a while, they can apply to have their civil rights restored in VA. It’s a big deal.

  269. G, your “huh” on the Obama welfare video says more about what a lousy sound bite it was than anything Obama actually had to say. The poster wanted to take him out of context and ended up rendering an almost incoherent statement.

    I have an idea of what Obama was getting at, hinting at bigoted views of black welfare recipients but that’s all I could glean from it.

  270. Not for nothing but RI of all places has enacted a pretty good voter ID program. This coming Sept. primary will the first test. They are going out of their way stressing what and how to get good ID’s. the list is very easy. One is as simple as a bus pass. In RI RIPTA is the monopoly so it works.
    I offer this as an example of A0 how easy it is and B) that even an ultra blue state can “get it”.

  271. Turn your goddamned hat around, wear appropriate clothing, put the money for your gold crowns and whole-body tattoos in the bank.

    And by the way, you look like a fool with your pants on the ground

    The only reason I don’t completely jump on the bandwagon with you PF is that there are loads of ignorant looking and behaving white folks who don’t get this lecture. Jersey Shore is an abomination.

    That’s why America and race is just a no-win situation because while I can get angry at the “community” for perceived ignorance, when I express it, I give fodder to folks who are not being honestly critical but who are simply bigots.

    For every black who quietly agreed with Bill Cosby (me being one of them) there was some bigot saying “damn, even the black man knows black people suck”.

  272. @ Rutherford thanks for the replies btw. Yes I was testing where our boundaries are re Citizens. My position being corps. have a face and some rights. I see yours. As for the wait for 2016,sounds interesting but clearly America needs a shift stat so sooner is better than later. Kudos for stating what you did though. I don’t think I can extend the courtesy right now. What? Cuomo Jr maybe,not Debbie Wasserman Schlitz

  273. I don’t give “primers”.

    No you just give condescending one liners. You didn’t answer my damn question BiW … or maybe after your careful analysis of the case, YOU don’t know what YOU are talking about?

    I’ll repeat it here for your convenience:

    1. Was it not decided based on the First Amendment? If so, I got that one right.

    2. Does it not allow unlimited spending by corporations on ads that express political opinion (and tacitly support a candidate)? If so, I got that right.

    You wanna make clear where I’m wrong. I said I supported the decision based on point 1 above. If point 1 is wrong, then maybe I need to stop supporting the decision.

    Your turn, Counselor.

  274. in Virginia and West Virginia, at least, convicted felons cannot vote.

    I’m not disputing that. But that involves their getting on the voter rolls (i.e. registered), not what they do at the polling place on election day. If they get on the voter roll and there is no mechanism to cross check their name against police records, that is a fault in the system … it’s not fraud. Now when you can show me some org (no doubt ACORN pfffft) recruiting known felons to register to vote, then maybe we can have a fraud discussion …. even then the problem is poor matching of rolls to records.

    Once someone is registered to vote, if they show up and vote, that is how it should be. Get the registration rolls clean … don’t stop early voting or any other number of bullsh*t methods to keep people from the polls.

    And when you do that registration roll cleansing, be damn sure you are using criteria that does not kick valid voters off the rolls (as happened in Florida).

    Two words — Mike Turzai

    Nuff said.

  275. Ah Alfie, you’ve struck upon my Achilles heel. I am SO uninspired by the current crop of Dems. Faux Indian be damned, I still like Liz Warren. Before he tweeted his dick, I had such high hopes for Anthony Wiener. Hillary will probably run in 2016 but she is establishment …. not a fresh face and a bit of a snake to boot.

    I view Debbie WS as a lightweight when it comes to debating. She reminds me of a high school kid. Plus she sounds like Elmer Fudd. Don’t get me wrong, I like Debbie but she just doesn’t currently have what it takes to go presidential.

    I know very little about Cuomo so I can’t say much there. I’m a big fan of Corey Booker but again I’m not sure he’s ready for a POTUS run.

    Although their family has the sexual morals of Caligula, I wouldn’t mind seeing one of the younger generation of Kennedy’s jump in. I’ve lost track of them so I couldn’t actually name names.

  276. I don’t get it. Are poor and blacks that fucking retarded they can’t produce an ID card? It’s beyond reasonable to identify yourself for an election. If that means Romney wins Pennsylvania, he wins Pennsylvania.

    That being said, fucking with the time of an election to make it difficult for people to vote is bull shit. I’m cool with gerymandering. State elections have consequences. The Dems were total assholes about Obamcare and they deserve to pay the price. But fucking with the time a booth is open ain’t cool.

    BiC, if Rutherford and I pitch in and buy you feather ink pen kit and puffy shirt will you give us the primary course? Becuase I don’t get your beef on what R said

  277. Rutherford –

    I know where you are coming from on the bigots and “black people suck” but the Jews, the Italians, the Chinese, the Scotsmen in America figured out a long time ago that it is just a waste of time – and spirit – to respond to those assholes. You put your head down, work like hell, and ignore the bigots, for they do not matter.

    Who does matter, however, is the potential job-provider, like me. My best tech, Tim, is a very urbane black man with an encyclopedic knowledge. I learn from him every time we talk.

    We had a long discussion of the black proclivity to name – especially their girls – things like “Loquesheia” and shit like that. His take on it was that “We come from different worlds, Doc.” My rejoinder was that, “Yes, but MY world holds the cards. You want to move up in life, you have to deal with the people who have the power, and NONE of them – black or white – dresses like a street hood with his pants down around his thighs or names his kids Loquesheia, or is willing to risk his business by hiring people who do.”

    The Italians, Poles, Jews learned a long time ago that if you want people to treat you with respect and give you a leg up on life, you need to LOOK respectable and act the same way. It’s a required ticket to even get your foot on the bottom rung. People will NOT hire someone they believe is not reliable or is a danger to them or their business. If you look like a Banger and are covered with tattoos, you have just condemned yourself and your family to poverty. Period.

    Somebody in the “black community” needs to say that and say it loudly.

  278. As I tweeted earlier today, I believe Joe Scarborough has the right prescription for Mitt Romney — the 3 M’s.

    Mormon — Show us how your faith has inspired your good works.

    Money — Concretely show how your biz experience will inform your presidency and be PROUD of your money. Convince the voter that you represent the American dream in all its capitalistic glory.

    Massachusetts — Remind the voter how you made progress with an overwhelmingly Democratic state legislature. Prove you can put an end to Washington gridlock because you know how to work across the aisle — you’ve done it and you can do it again.

    Oddly, Mitt doesn’t want to talk about his faith, his money or his Governorship.

    Oh well …. doesn’t matter. We just want to get rid of Obama right? 😐

  279. Rabbit you have no idea how heart broken I was to see Wiener take that fall. He was a flame throwing passionate liberal with an authenticity that Alan Grayson lacked.

    Besides it’s time to elect a Jewish guy … and not a sell out whiner like Joe Lieberman.

  280. “Somebody in the “black community” needs to say that and say it loudly.”

    That’d be Rutherford.

    R, do you know any black people?

    Just kidding. Your Republican approach to attracting black support tells me you don’t.

  281. “Oh well …. doesn’t matter. We just want to get rid of Obama right?”

    Like it matters to you, who just wants to keep Obama. What of those three things do you care about?

  282. if Rutherford and I pitch in and buy you feather ink pen kit and puffy shirt will you give us the primary course?

    Just picturing that cracked me up.

    Rabbit at first I agreed with you … how hard can it be to produce an id? But even those states claiming they will give you a free id demand expensive paperwork to get the id. This is tantamount to a poll tax.

    “We’ll give you a picture id for free if you produce a birth certificate”. Fine and dandy … I lost my birth cert but I can get one for free right? No, there’s an admin fee of $25.00. “I need the 25 bucks to buy food for my kids.”

    “Oh well, too bad, guess you can’t vote then. That’s what you get for being a poor American citizen.”

  283. The 3 M’s for Obama.

    Make me forget how much of my son’s money was spent in a failed scheme if we use the administrations own bench marks.

    Make me forget the unemployment rate and the misery for all my friends who don’t count as unemployed becuase that work part time to stay off welfare.

    Make me forget the poverty level, the food stamp rolls, the record disability rolls and the fact that hope and change ended up marking the start of the most helpless, hopeless American era in my life time.

  284. Dude, the honor system doesn’t cut it when it comes the integrity of the most vital aspect of America. These people can come up with the 25 bucks if they lost their shit, if that is even true. I had to show my dam ID to lift weights in the nastiest, un-air conditioned gym, brimming with stink. Trust me, only poor people worked out there.

  285. PF, what you’re calling for is a monolithic society … no diversity of expression. That’s not necessarily cool.

    Example: When I was a manager I was looking for a webmaster for my organization (actually to replace me … I had the job before going into management). This middle aged Jewish dude with a speech impediment and a pony tail (balding in the front) comes in for an interview. Mind you, this is at a pretty conservative company. Dude hands me a floppy which has on it a mock up of the very site I want him to build and maintain. Mofo was prepared up the ying-yang.

    So now I’m saying to myself “how do I sell this unusual character to MY boss?” I pulled it off, hired the guy, and never looked back. When I got laid off a decade later, one of the most moving notes I got was from him saying “thanks for taking a chance on me, I owe my current career to you.”

    If I went by your credo PF the dude wouldn’t have stood a chance and I would have lost a fantastic webmaster.

  286. why not just send the NBPP to police the polls?

    Great idea … put them to good use. Just like Yukon Cornelius did with that Abominable Snow Monster of the North.

    Look to the 46 second mark: “I reformed this bumble, he wants a job.”

  287. Male pattern baldness, pony tail and hook nose doesn’t scare people. Purposly looking like a thug does.

  288. Just to toss another one on the barbie.
    In PA you can get a govt. issued ID for $13.50. You’ll need proof of residency such as lease/rent records,tax records,or utility bills suffice. I’m checking if there are ways to dodge the $13.50. Be back soon!

  289. PA law has multiple loopholes that pretty much assures that even if you’re a bum with nothing in your pocket but lice you can vote. Unless you’re all about people being off the grid (except on election day) I don’t see what the beef is with the Keystone State. You’ve got a friend in PA…..and he’s got a million ways to get an ID and vote on election day.

  290. Male pattern baldness, pony tail and hook nose doesn’t scare people. Purposly looking like a thug does.

    Some of the nicest looking and best dressed people are the most evil and dangerous, and SHOULD scare us… Jamie Dimon, Lloyd Blankfein, Bibi…

  291. I need to post a correct spelling of because, because Tigre started the ua instead of the au and the dreaded rabbit has followed suit ever since.

    No need to thank me, I got the gist. 😉

  292. C’mon Rutherford – those were pretty weak responses; even you would have to agree.

    “PF, what you’re calling for is a monolithic society … no diversity of expression. That’s not necessarily cool.”

    I’m asking for no such thing. I am suggesting reasonable, appropriate behavior and dress from those who want to move up in life. I am unsympathetic to those who flout my sensibilities and then criticise me for not hiring them.

    “If I went by your credo PF the dude wouldn’t have stood a chance and I would have lost a fantastic webmaster.”

    Not so at all. Your man looked eccentric; he did not look like a thug. Nothing in his appearance marked him as dangerous, or even out of the ordinary for a programmer/webmaster. I am willing to give an eccentric a chance to show his stuff; a thug look-alike won’t even get through the door.

    “There’s a message in that Rudolph video for PF too … maybe misfits have a place too”

    Sure they do. I’m proudly one of them, but I kept my eccentricities to myself when I was younger and needed someone to give me a break. As I have become more successful I have revealed a few eccentric bents, but STILL I don’t give an appearance that is classically associated with danger. (To give you a “white man” example, I like to ride motorcycles, but I do not go to my hospital jobs wearing leather and sporting a do-rag.) You think coming from the ghetto is troublesome? Try coming out of the WV mountains and fitting into the modern world; those of us who have, have very little sympathy for whiners and ne’er-do-wells.

  293. I don’t think anybody is saying it’s making it impossible to vote. It’s just making it harder, more of a hassle. Traditionally, larger turnouts favor Dems. In an election as close as this, it could make the difference.

    I think this Rep. knew that.

  294. Tell you. Death makes us all equals. I’m walking out this morning after spending my third night in row at the hospital and this good looking what I thought was black kid walked out of ICU. He actually was 40, so I guess that ain’t kid.

    Anyway, here my old man and his 24 year old daughter are helpless and out of it. They’ve now decided after numerous treatment, my father did have a stroke. My black “friend’s” daughter a massive car wreck and permanent brain damage. Both of them are going to long term care.

    We sat there for a minute after talking, I told him I was sorry, we shook hands, then something between a chest bump and a hug.

    Seemed as natural as day. Did the same thing with my father’s hospitalist yesterday – from Togo. 😆 I think God has a great sense of humor. I kind of expect Rutherford to round the corner any second as male nurse, cane in hand.

    Perhaps Thor was more prophetic than he thought when he portrayed me as Archie Bunker and Rutherford as Jefferson the other day.

    Damn sure is working out that way in the hospital.

    Damn, I am getting tired. Living in the hospital to spell your elderly mom every evening is wearing me out. My mother must have decided it was better they call me for permissions or information concerning treatment. Now the doctors are calling me at home. 😈 Poor bastards are so gun shy of legality, they jump through hoops to keep you quiet.

    Guess my David Koresh impression the other night as I spoke in tongues about lack of pain management for my father must have left a lasting impression.

  295. No shame on me Rutherford.

    Of course Republicans steal votes too, but most of what we have cited is Democratic related. Republicans tend to support voter ID’s which will not prevent anyone from voting. Many Democrats don’t. By using liberal logic evident at other times, Democrats want the status quo to steal votes when necessary.

    Another extension of the liberal poltical logic is that Romney caused a woman to die of cancer because he destroyed jobs while at Bain Capital. The same logic demonstrates that Obama is a mass murderer via fast and furious.

  296. Since the “experts” here have assured us that Romney’s offshore accounts are not tax dodges, perhaps they are being utilized to hide associations with these people. We all know how Republican’ts feel about their Presidents “pal’in around with terrorists”. Might not look good to the ex-pat Salvadorans in Florida during the convention.

    R, I know it’s a stretch, but it’s sure to piss some of these guys off, so I linked it anyway. You’re welcome. 🙂

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/08/mitt-romney-death-squads-bain_n_1710133.html?ref=topbar

  297. R, do you know any black people?

    Sadly I left my two best friends who happen to be black back in CT. I have not made any black friends here yet …. I have not made any friends here yet. I’m a bad mixture of shy and as I get older, increasingly anti-social. 🙂

    P.S. Which reminds me, I’m going to my first PMI dinner meeting tonight since I moved here. I’m pretty much dreading it. 😦

  298. Your Republican approach to attracting black support tells me you don’t.

    All you need to know are human beings to know the Republican approach doesn’t work.

  299. What of those three things do you care about?

    Well you know I don’t care about the Mormon thing. I think if more people knew specifics (like outer space sh*t and holy lands in North America) they’d run from Romney like the plague.

    I’d be impressed if he talked to the money thing a bit better.

    I’d be impressed if he talked to the Massachusetts thing better.

    But again you don’t get it. It’s not about re-electing Obama. It’s about opposing a conservative agenda that will set social progress back 40 years.

  300. R, in all sincerity, I really do wish you’d simply read the opinions you discuss here if for no other reason than to advance the debate. Why do you have such an aversion to it? It might seem daunting, but shit — look at the dumb crap Numbnutz just posted. Hell, I’ll bet you’ve already read it all the way through because you so dearly love propaganda.

  301. “All you need to know are human beings to know the Republican approach doesn’t work.”

    Which takes you back to my original point — a message that apparently isn’t one that the majority of inner-city blacks wish to hear. And you know I’m right.

  302. “But again you don’t get it. It’s not about re-electing Obama. It’s about opposing a conservative agenda that will set social progress back 40 years.”

    In other words, none of those three things mean shit to you, a/k/a my point.

    Obama’s made no social progress, and Romney is no threat to it. You want validation for your cult of personality party. Nothing more.

  303. I agree Ruterford.

    There should be no financial barrier to voting. The failed Nebraska version of voter ID mandated that the government would pay for ID cards if some one had no drivers license or other form of ID which could be used to prove who one was at the polls.

    I think the Democratic Convention will require IDs. The Olympics certainly do. We need to let voters prove who they say they without charging them money.

  304. Another extension of the liberal poltical logic is that Romney caused a woman to die of cancer because he destroyed jobs while at Bain Capital.

    There’s nothing particularly liberal about that. It’s just dishonest and wrong. You won’t see me defend it.

  305. I always was told it’s the blue screen of death. At least with Microsoft. Thankfully, I haven’t experienced that in many years…

  306. “Says the guy that tried to hold Palin responsible for Giffords’ shooting.”

    Lol.

    . I don’t know if your conscience will trouble you tonight as Ms. Giffords fights for her life in a Tuscon ICU, but from at least a very practical, very political point of view, you should be steaming mad at the folks you hired to make you look good.

    Guilt by association is a bitch.

  307. Apparently poor people can’t pay for even there own ID after they lose their shit. Ok, lets pay that for them, too. But can someone remind me why we can’t mock them like the pathetic little childeren they are? Fucking helpless. Let the bridge card count as ID. I don’t give a damn. But to force the entire country to have an election of the most powerful man in the world on the honor system becuase people who vote Democratic tend to be such losers they can’t come up with ID is insane. Hell, according to Thor, the ignorant backward fuck sticks vote Republican. Maybe an honorable election process would be a net gain?

  308. All you need to know are human beings to know the Republican approach doesn’t work.

    It doesn’t work with ignorant folks who are incapable of logical thinking. It doesn’t work with emotional thinkers/voters. People capable of critical thinking, they have no problem with the approach.

  309. BiW, read it again:

    2. Does it not allow unlimited spending by corporations on ads that express political opinion (and tacitly support a candidate)? If so, I got that right.

    Samples got hung up on the Newsroom using the word “donate”. No where in point 2 do I mention contributions or donations to a political party or candidate. I refer to the very thing Samples mentions … unfettered spending on COMMUNICATION, i.e. advertisements that express their opinion (in much the same way Aaron Sorkin uses HBO as a forum for his opinion … or Bill Maher a better example). These advertisements can go right up to the line of recommending a particular candidate without ever giving a dime to that candidate’s campaign. But unlike the case of Bill Maher, these ads don’t even have to say “brought to you by Exxon”.

    Sorry, you haven’t proven your point Counselor. Would you like to try again?

  310. Mark this day, 8 August 2012, as the day Mitt Romney lost any chance of ever being President. Don’t believe me, google and find out what Rush had to say about it.

  311. Ha Ha Poolman. I am holding out for Windows 8, but I’d love to keep our XP. The drives seem to be all right. Our son said we need to wipe the computer clean and start over, but that is a lot of time and work.

    Your earlier description was touching, Tex, it is one reason I like you.

    Newt or no newt, we all know Obama is a dirty bird who’s people have caused things to happen to his opponents from the beginning of his carreer. Divorce records are opened though they are supposedly sealed for example.

    Obama could win, but I don’t believe you or Rush that this marks the day Romney lost.

  312. ‘Speaking of bets, It is legal to wagert on political races in the UK/ Right now, bookies give Obama edge, but they also give 100/1 odds that the election will go to the House of Representatives. Those are relatively good odds compared to past elections.

  313. This was interesting, even with the drama. It’s called The Assassin. A social experiment of sorts. Apparently this guy Derron Brown is a hypnotist and the show’s host.

    Imagine the waiver those folks had to sign to be on that show.

  314. Newt, I assume your doing your Daily Kos blather again. Google didn’t turn up any earth-shattering reports. Why don’t you try your hand at articulating how Romney made Obama a better choice today? The dumb cancer ad is backfiring among those with an IQ over 60.

  315. Mrs. Romney accidently said “you people” again. It’s over. Mark this day.

    No seriously. It might be over. 48 percent pay no taxes. Millions of government workers and teachers. Sprinkle in a few from the religious right uncool with the mormons. Maybe it is. I’d love for Partisan Newt to explain why that would be a good thing. But, she doesn’t really talk much about that stuff.

  316. 67 years ago today, in an effort to ‘shorten the agony of war’…

    On August 9, 1945, Nagasaki was the target of the United States’ second atomic bomb attack (and the second detonation of a plutonium bomb; the first was tested in central New Mexico, USA) at 11:02 a.m., when the north of the city was destroyed in less than a second, and an estimated 70,000 people were killed by the bomb codenamed “Fat Man.” According to statistics found within Nagasaki Peace Park, the death toll from the atomic bombing totalled 73,884, including 2,000 Korean forced workers and eight POWs, as well as another 74,909 injured, and another several hundred thousand diseased and dying due to fallout and other illness caused by radiation. This bomb was supposed to be more destructive than “Little Boy” but was dropped in a valley, and therefore did roughly the same amount of damage as Little Boy.

    I never realized Nagasaki was mostly Catholic, having been so since the 16th Century. That was an interesting new tidbit for me.

  317. Says the guy that tried to hold Palin responsible for Giffords’ shooting.

    You know, I’ve taken more than enough crap for that. Palin wasn’t responsible but she, like every other pol who used crosshairs as imagery, was on the wrong f*cking side of history when Giffords got shot. Giffords herself complained about the imagery before she got shot.

    So cut the crap. Palin is worthless sludge. She responded to the “wrongful attacks” on her by making herself the victim when she should have stayed focused on talking about Gabby’s recovery and pointing out that maybe the shooting, albeit by a non-politically motivated madman, was still a teachable moment about civil campaigning. Instead she referred to blood libels, etc. etc.

    Now … I’ve fallen on my sword about my initial tweets regarding Palin in the wake of that shooting. I’ve eaten more than enough crow. I’m not doing it anymore. You keep defending the twit, and I’ll keep knocking her down. Bring it.

  318. BTW here is some insight into Tigre and BiW’s legal system. A retarded guy gets executed for killing one person in Texas and Loughner dodges execution by pleading guilty of killing six people.

    Great f*cking justice.

  319. I don’t know if your conscience will trouble you tonight as Ms. Giffords fights for her life in a Tuscon ICU, but from at least a very practical, very political point of view, you should be steaming mad at the folks you hired to make you look good.

    Yup I stand by it. I was nice. I blamed the twit’s campaign staff.

  320. No man. I’m not bringing it. Uncle! Uncle! The dude abides!
    You’ve convinced me. Sara Palin’s cross hairs on her website, whatever that is, was certainly an underlying cause of the horrific act. I can’t believe she made about her after the entire left blamed her for the killings.

  321. I am holding out for Windows 8, but I’d love to keep our XP.

    James, honestly dude, you need a new computer. From everything you’ve described it just doesn’t sound like an operating system problem.

  322. I’ll never give you slack for that one
    That’s the day I realized you have it deep within you to be a dangerous follower.

  323. Newt, don’t underestimate the hatred for Obama. Mitt could dance naked in the street and Obama might still lose.

    Mitt will be the first POTUS elected who was loathed by his own party. The convention is going to be a series of lying hypocrites … it may be entertaining.

    The fact is, as much as I had problems with the guy, all things considered Rick Santorum should have been the nominee. He was the only one with real integrity and consistency and he spoke the truth about Romney. When it comes to Obamacare, Mitt is the worst possible candidate on the globe to run against Obama. Rick said it, and Rick was right.

    Before Poolman goes off … yes Ron Paul was consistent too but way more fringe than Santorum, even with the dog sex.

  324. Stand by what? Out of all the vitriolic garbage spewed in good old fashion piss and vinager American politics, the Palin people should have a heavy conscience over the attack by random skitzo? You go girl!

  325. Tigre it was Romney’s spokesperson’s response to the dumb cancer ad that got him in trouble today. I joked a day or two ago that if only that woman lived in MA she would have been fine. Mitt’s spokesperson actually said my joke … but she wasn’t joking!!! So Mitt must think the MA solution belongs in all the states, 😆 Limbaugh and Erick Erickson are apoplectic.

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/08/romney-campaign-touts-mass-health-care-law-in-response-to-pro-obama-ad/

    “CNN contributor and RedState.com editor Erick Erikson wrote on Twitter:

    Rush Limbaugh was equally incised, saying on his radio show that Saul’s comment “was a potential gold mine for Obama supporters.”

  326. Newt, the only question remaining is why on Earth the GOP primary electorate chose Mitt in the first place. Was he really the best of a bad lot?

    Rabbit, this ain’t rocket science. If you go talking smack about Tex repeatedly using really vitriolic language and some nutjob who doesn’t even know you and has never read a thing you ever said, kills Tex, you cannot tell me that you wouldn’t have regret over your words regardless of cause and effect.

    In fact I’ll give you a very real example although Tex will deny it. When HippieProfessor died, Tex felt remorse about some of the more over the top sh*t he had said about HP. Did Tex kill HP? No. But when people run into troubles, most decent people take stock over whether they were a net positive influence on that person or a net negative.

    Sarah Palin never gave any evidence of that introspection. And I suspect one of the reasons, other than craven politics, that the left jumped on her so fast was that they suspected the self centered twit wouldn’t give a seconds thought to whether she had added a net positive or a net negative to the whole situation.

    In response, Palin upped the ante on her self-centeredness. She could have exhibited grace under pressure, and wrongful accusation but as could be predicted, she said she was the victim of a blood libel.

    Now, I’ll say it again … I apologized to all concerned about tweeting on the subject so soon after the shooting on an adrenaline rush. I should have counted to ten and held my tongue. But I didn’t. You guys wanna keep rubbing my face in it? Fine … rub away. It doesn’t change the fact that Palin is a self centered spoiled twit.

  327. Damn, the chick didn’t even use the insurance the commercial is claiming she lost in the first place. Hope and Change is some grimey sleeze bag shit. Politics are unbearable sometimes. Dirty!

  328. The ad sucks …. and Romney’s staff is so incompetent they don’t even respond to it in a way that makes Romney look good.

    I’m telling you … Mitt needs to clean house:

    FIRE: The etch-a-sketch dude
    FIRE: The “kiss my ass” dude
    FIRE: The “she would have been covered if she lived in MA” chick

    He needs a new staff!!!!!

    But listen up my conservative friends … if he’s this bad at firing a lousy campaign staff, just think of the useless nimrods who will populate his administration.

  329. Hippieprof and Tex used to get into heated debates everyday, you dope. They were internet friends, if advasarial. The killer was, as you said, apolitical and SKITZO. Bonkers. Good chance he didn’t even know who Palin was not alone influenced by some imagery on a map on the woman’s web site. Have you ever been to her website? I take that back, you probably choke yourself INXS style to it. She is such a big deal to you, you not only assume a cackling crazed killer visited the site but found it so graphic and suggestive, he killed people over it. You might be mentally ill yourself. Strange amd improbable correlations that defy logic have to be a sign of something sad going on upstairs.

  330. Interesting we didn’t see the outrage and concern over the Obama campaign using Batman imagery on the eve of one of the worst shootings in American history. Oh, a few of us dropped our jaw about how fucking stupid it was to compare Bain and Bane. But we didn’t blame the campaign for the shooting. Becuase that would make us unstable weirdos. You see how that works Rutherford?

  331. Newt, don’t underestimate the hatred for Obama. Mitt could dance naked in the street and Obama might still lose.

    Rutherford, don’t underestimate your hate for anything not Messiah. Hussein could come crap on your doorstep everyday, and you would vote the man in. You tell me there is no black and white. I tell you there is no white, not for you.

  332. “Was he really the best of a bad lot?” Seems so. That and he had the most money. He really is caught between the far right and where he needs to be to pick up votes from Independents. They say, there is only a matter of 4-6% of the vote that is undecided, and that is only in battleground states, since red states will go Romney and blue states Obama. Chris Christy is making noises like he plans to run 2016, and to a lesser degree, so is Jeb Bush. I live in a battleground state, and I thank the lord for DVR, already there are far too many political commercials, great for local television stations though, they are getting RICH.

  333. R just quadrupled down. 🙄 After all this time doesn’t and kicking around (all of which was promised, as he shouted louder and louder over the MSNBC fueled weeks-long meme) still doesn’t see the depths of it.

    As for “BiC’s and Tigre’s legal system,” you offer us your Zimmerman and Giffords’ legal system? Yeah. You’re a real voice of reason. 😆

  334. R, I hit the breathless Puff-Ho and Kos articles. Romney might as well quit.

    Make no mistake about it. I hate Obama. So. . . I guess it’s time for you to call me a racist again?

  335. good morning, Rabbit. How did the Obama campaign compare Bane and Bain? My understanding was that Rush Limbaugh is the one who did that. However, I would agree that, if the campaign did it, it would be incredibly stupid. thanks.

    Rutherford: Agree 100% about Palin’s response. No, she was not responsible. But I do think that a more decent (and politically astute) response would have been to simply express compassion for the victims. Am I correct that Roger Ailes wanted her to do just that?

    As for Romney/Obama chances, I have been very impressed by Nate Silver’s analysis.

  336. Rutherford, all I see of your support for Obama takes the form of critiques of Romney’s campaign. I would say “time to up your game” but it’s pretty obvious you got nothing more. Love it.

  337. Rutherford, Sarah Palin was a victim. As soon as she was nominated hoards of reporters and lawyers went to Alaska to find all the dirt that was true or untrue while basically ignoring Obama. They bludgened her family, and even her baby with lies and half truths to destroy her. Democrats flooded Alaska and Sarah with mostly baseless complaints and lawsuits.

    They did it because Palin was a threat to Obama. She took the ticket ahead in the polls before the crash.

    Her own party betrayed her as McCain operatives leaked more distorted interpretations to enhance their credentials and credibility. Democrats used the cross hairs device too, and yet some on the left blamed Palin for the shootings. Juneau Joe on the other blog even said Palin should applogise for the killings.

    On a smaller scale, you have sometimes been attacked unfairly on your own blog. . The Cancer ad is just the latest manifestation of the same politics of personal destruction.

    Sarah Palin has nothing to lose in saying whatever she wants to say. .

  338. James, as unfair as some of the attacks around here, no one has accused him of complicity in some ones death. Rutherford also called for Palin to apologize. His defiance on this subject — and others that have a similar angle — speaks of a certain depravity that can’t be excused.

  339. Tex – it sounds like you have everything squared-away with the medicos. If you can easily get hold of an MRI report or CT, I can give you some idea of the extent of damage. One can suffer pretty significant stroke damage in the relatively “new” areas, such as the frontal or temporal lobes, and come out pretty much intact. However even tiny amounts of damage at the base of the brain or brainstem are devastating.

    Mother Nature is a bitch. I hope to go out in an airplane crash. I have even invented an aerobatic maneuver for the occasion: the ground loop. It is a loop in which a part of the arc intersects the ground. Lots better than stroke.

  340. Yahoo News says the Obama campaign knew about the cancer death last May. Politico reported that Joe Soptic told his story to Obama in a May 14 conference call.

    Campaign spokesman Ben Lebolt said the Romney campaign should take responsibilty for the job losses he caused. How about Obama? He has destroyed more jobs than Romney could imagine.

    Romney may be the best of a bad lot, but at his worse, he is better than our current president.

    Obama is a dirty man who started his career with largely successful attempts of personal destruction against his opponents.. He is an autocrat with a penchant for circumventing Congress with executive mandates. His Department of Justice ruler is a racist.

    The only people who could vote for this man after the previous four years are naive dupes, economic parasites, or people who think they can make money and buy influence in this peculiar Obama system.

  341. I wasn’t here then El Tigre. Rutherford should have been condemned for that. I was referring to a mass attack we made over something fairly trivial. I felt sorry for Rutherford on that day.

    The same priinciple applies. Rutherford was attacked as Palin was. Of course, the scale was different. No one was trying to destroy Rutherford as a person or blogger.

    I’m sorry Tex.

  342. Joseph Lavine is an Obama fund raiser and bundler. He chaired Bain at the time of the layoffs and the cancer death.

    By the left’s standards, Obama is already an accessory to the murder of our border patrol agent and hundreds of Mexicans. Now, he gives tacit approval to a woman’s cancer death by working with a man more responsible than Romney.

    LIke vampires, the left feeds on the blood mass murder victims . Now they are snacking on cancer victims. Who is next? Dead puppies?

  343. James: How do you explain the overwhelming support for Obama of the Jewish and Asian-American populations? I don’t know that you can categorize them in the way you describe. They tend to be highly educated, critical, and certainly not economic parasites. Nor do I think there’s any indication that they perceive that they would financially benefit or buy influence. Your thoughts?

  344. #447, good answer, shows Tigre understands the necessary political intricacy of the next phase Romney’s campaign. I look forward to his commentary during the next couple of months.

  345. Hi, Newt: No, I wasn’t referring to any particular article. I have followed Nate Silver since 2008. He was unbelievably accurate then and in 2010. I was just speaking as a general proposition in terms of his statistical model. I am not a statistician by any means but even with my simplistic understanding can see the problems with just accepting any particular poll (or few).

  346. Newt, I noticed you slinked off when made my challenge for you to put your money where your purty little mouth is about that stinking pile of shit we’ve got a for President winning in November. Anybody as loose with her words as you, should at least be confident enough to win a few bucks while she is at it.

    So how much we going to bet, girl? 😛

    The bottom line is your President, his staff, and his campaign managers are proven, known, and pathological liars. Period. We’ve now got the documented evidence to prove it.

    And actually Nate Silver wasn’t nearly as accurate about 2010 as Rasmussen was, and as late as Sept/Oct was still providing people like Jim Duggan and Rutherford Lawson a false sense of hope about November 2010 not being an ass kicking. Simply head here:

    hippieprofessor.com

    And the proof will be clearly documented.

    Nate Silver got “real” accurate a few days before the election, which is more than I can say about the Rutherford and Nancy Pelosi.

  347. Unable to run on his record, President Hope-and-Change has built a campaign based entirely on scurrilous lies about Mitt Romney. But the latest reaches a historic, despicable low.

    That ad features a man claiming that after Bain Capital closed his steel plant, he lost his job and his insurance, and shortly thereafter his wife died of cancer.

    Even it were true, trying to blame Romney for his wife’s death defies credulity. But the facts are all wrong.

    Romney had left Bain to run the summer Olympics two years before Joe Soptic lost his job in 2001. And his wife had her own job and insurance at that time. She later took a disability leave and lost her coverage, and her cancer was apparently symptom-free until she checked into a hospital for pneumonia in 2006.

    The ad, sponsored by an Obama “super-PAC” was too much even for the in-the-Obama-tank press. CNN’s Wolf Blitzer called it “a pretty outrageous claim,” and Sam Stein of the Obama-worshipping Huffington Post said it went “too far.”

    The Obama campaign has refused to denounce the ad, which is understandable, since when you lie as often as it does, the lines of propriety start to get blurry.

    Enough said. Between’s Obama’s epic economic failures as President and his penchant for lying, thousands of broken campaign promises, and racial animosity he himself created, it has proven beyond a shadow of doubt that Barack Obama unfit for President.

    People always want to throw the disconnect of the Jewish and minority votes that highly favor Barack Obama, but they never want to equally address the 23 point gap for Mitt Romney in White America, the people that actually formed and made this country the greatest nation on earth.

  348. good morning, Tex. I wasn’t speaking of all minority groups–merely Asian American. I understand that the percentage of other minorities on public assistance is very high. My point was simply that James’ statement about the characteristics of anyone who would vote for Obama was not entirely warranted.

    As for Nate Silver in 2010, you raise an interesting point. I had understood that he was very accurate but am certainly prepared to be corrected on that point. Will look into it.

  349. Pfesser, thanks for the advice. It has been very helpful.

    I talked to the ‘Clinical Manager’ yesterday, professionally and nicely – but firmly, and informed her that my family was not unsatisfied with the personnel, most who have been excellent, but with response of pain management and the lack of access to the hospitalists to expedite the care – pain management should be the very first aim of health care in my estimation.

    Whatever buttons Robyn pushed, yesterday my father started to receive substantially more physician attention.

    I would add that ironically while staying at the hospital with him last night, my father has made dramatic improvements, including me now being able to understand the words “hot”, “cold”, “hungry”, “up”, “down”, and “Red Sox.”

    The latter being my father’s beloved baseball team.

    The lesion is on the left parietal lobe and I think part of the difficulty in diagnosis was that the stroke may have been accompanied by something viral – of which my father is being treated with acyclovir. There is some weakness in his right hand but certainly not entire motor loss.

    The MRI spectroscopy finally determined that there is no tumor, but it took two CT, two MRI, and three lumbar punctures to make that assessment. They tried an NG three times, and even with his hands restricted, my father managed to pull the thing right out of his nose. 😐 We Taylors are a stubborn lot.

    They will insert a PEG feeding tube today since dad has had nothing to eat for going on 10 days now. That kind of burns me that it took this long, because that is exactly what my doctor daughter recommended last Sunday and they refused due to chance of infection.

    The man already has a PICC inserted. 😡 Good grief – that’s what the antibiotics are for.

  350. I’m not criticizing you Emily, as much as I think Nate Silver has earned a reputation of greatness that is mostly unwarranted. Lefties may not like Rasmussen’s polling, but at least the last four campaign cycles, Rasmussen has clearly been the most accurate in his predictions – both pro and con Republican.

    In fact, what I’ve read of Nate Silver, though certainly more objective that most biased polling, is not all that impressive to me – mainly because I think it carries the typical NYT polling bias in analysis. Nate spins.

    Truth is Emily, we are at least 45 days out still to have a real accurate picture of the standings.

    This is one time I really do think the debates will matter much who is President Jan 2013.

  351. Rutherford, a quick gut check on your response to the recent attack ad on Romney’s culpability in the death of Joe Soptic’s wife might be good for the soul. “The ad sucks” doesn’t quite cut it. And no need to twist how to take Romney’s own staffer’s ignorance. She should be bounced and now. As should Stephanie Cutter and Bill Burton. Slimeballs to the core.

    Your timid acknowledgement that you “can’t get behind” Harry Reid’s grotesque display by could use a little heart too. By heart I mean conscience.

    “Was he (Romney) really the best of a bad lot?”

    I’m amazed that you can pose this question after posting this:

    Liz Warren – you still like her.

    More of an insult than an endorsement, really. No substance to the remark in any case.

    Anthony Weiner – high hopes dashed when he tweeted stupidly [was caught exhibiting extremely poor judgment and lied to cover it up].

    I added that last part. Again, no substance to the remark.

    Hillary – not a fresh face, snake.

    Interesting remark, but thin.

    Debbie Wasserman-Shultz – lightweight, currently doesn’t have what it takes to go presidential.

    Yeah, you could say that.

    Cuomo – you know very little about so can’t say much.

    This seems to be a list of people that you have little to say about, actually.

    Corey Booker – big fan, but you’re not sure he’s ready for a POTUS run.

    No reason given.

    Wouldn’t mind seeing one of the Kennedy’s jump in.

    Why?

    ~

    Emily: How do YOU explain the overwhelming support for Obama of the Jewish and Asian-American populations?

  352. I agree with you about the debates. And, although alot of people say choice of VP won’t matter much, I very much disagree with that.

    I am sorry about the family situation–been there and it is very difficult. You are lucky to have medical expertise in the family.

  353. Again with the broken link. And many, many italics and bold errors.

    *Face buried in hands*

    Bill “Slimeball” Burton explains the attack ad “We’re Not Trying To Say Romney Killed Anyone.”

  354. Muffy: I could be completely wrong and this is unsupported personal opinion. However, I think it’s two things. First, a disproportionately high percentage of both Jews and Asian Americans go to college and graduate school. Academia tends to be liberal. Spending 4-7 (or more) years in that environment seems likely to have an impact.

    I think with Jews it’s also something more. There I think three additional things come into play. First, there is the historical perception of themselves as outsiders and underdogs. Second, there was the involvement of many Jews in unionization. And third, there is a fear of conservative Christians, especially evangelicals. I have read/heard many times that the notion of “one way” and everyone else going to hell is viewed as insulting and threatening. Jimmy Carter actually was not well-liked by many Jews for that reason. But when the Republican party appears to be dominated by that religion and when candidates like Sarah Palin or Rick Santorum are so public, I think that plays a part in it.

    Obviously, Romney has different religious beliefs than a Jimmy Carter or a Santorum. But my guess is that it is threatening for the same reasons.

    Again, these are just my impressions. Nothing scientific or based in any sort of research. I probably insulted about 10 ethnic groups, including Jews, in typing it.

  355. Wow. I mangled that comment to no end. Relinked a broken link with a broken link. Yeehaw.

    Grammatical error too gross to ignore too –

    “This seems to be a list of people that you have little to say about, actually” should read “This seems to be a list of people about which you have little to say, actually.”

  356. Actually Emily, for all the gut checks, cheap shots, kicks to the groin, hair pulling, beer bottle throwing, and blackened eyes I have given and received on this blog, this is at least the fourth time I have taken the advice of my colleagues here (Pfesser being only the last) and personally benefited from their advice. Both Tigre and BIC helped me with a legal matter without the need of legal contact, and James helped me with my gardening and didn’t know it. 😀

    Heck, even my primary nemesis one Rutherford Lawson, provided soothing words of encouragement upon the loss of my beloved pet a couple of years ago that actually pushed me to the point of quit blaming myself.

    I’m a big believer in taking advantage of someone’s wisdom and experience when offered. Perhaps a bartering system is not such a bad idea.

  357. “Red Sox.”

    🙂 Sweet. I’m guessing my dad would probably work his tongue around “Cubbies” pretty quickly. Or “Semper Fi.”

    Sending continued cheers your way, Tex.

  358. Thank you Ms. Muffy. I’m so tired, I’m having a hard time laying down. The minute I do, I know I’ll crash and I’ve got to get some personal things done today.

    Why I think I’m dorking around on the internet is simply looking for something entertaining and waiting for the piles of laundry to get done. Yesterday, I moved daughter #2 to college in between hospital stays, the neglected hound Mick receiving his dose of chew time, and shooting the bull with daughter #1, who I don’t get to see much anymore and left this morning back to med school. I wasn’t going to miss that opportunity. But I’m probably working on 25 hours sleep this entire week trying to make this as easy as possible on my mother. I’m kind of proud of the fact my mother, married to the man for 55 years, has yet had to spend one night in a miserable hospital room and never more than twelve hours. Elderly care taking is a chore, but I figure I owe my mother that much for the eighteen years of free cooking.

    I’ll be damn glad when the Mrs. and sister Tex Taylor get here this weekend to relieve me.

  359. Seize the moment on caring for them as best they’ll let you, Tex. They belong to a generation we’re wise to honor, and they aren’t going to be replaced.

  360. R, ever notice how your blog is like a seedy bar. Just a bunch of guys scratching themselves and enjoying the sound of their own voice ever more with each progressive swig of beer.

    The women are outside, waiting for someone to poke her head in. Once she does, the rest follow. Gypsy Kat, are you out there.

    Pour me a Kokanee. Mr. Rabbit and I are going in the corner to arm wrestle. He’ll probably wipe the floor with me, but it’ll be worth it to watch that little hula girl on his bicep dance. 😉

  361. “Rutherford, Sarah Palin was a victim.” – J

    If she was a victim, it was only of her own ambition. She could have said “no”.

    As for her family being drug into it, she never asked us. 😉

  362. Hey R, since you seem to have unique ability to find racial connotation in anything (Lying Lions) I look forward to you comment on this:

  363. James is in his blue mood. Sarah the victim again… Actually, I think we’re the victims. I’d venture to say she has a net gain from her bouts of real and imagined victimhood. She knows how to capitalize on it.

    The victim platform has advanced many a political agenda.

    The bar analogy is funny, Thor. A virtual honky tonk. Party on…

  364. R, you’ll love this too…

    Drug cartel operatives used weapons from Operation Fast and Furious in a failed attempt to assassinate a high-ranking Mexican law enforcement official, the El Paso Times reports in an article that follows up on an initial report from Breitbart News’ Mary Chastain.

    The gun — which “was seized in Tijuana in connection with a drug cartel’s conspiracy to kill the police chief of Tijuana, Baja California, who later became the Juárez police chief” — is tied to Fast and Furious.

    “The firearm was found Feb. 25, 2010, during an arrest of a criminal cell associated with Teodoro ‘El Teo’ García Simental and Raydel ‘El Muletas’ López Uriarte, allies of the Sinaloa cartel,” Diana Washington Valdez wrote on Monday for the El Paso Times.

    “Tijuana police said they arrested four suspects in March 2010 in connection with a failed attempt to take out Julián Leyzaola, and that the suspects allegedly confessed to conspiring to assassinate the police chief on orders from Tijuana cartel leaders.”

  365. A new Congressional Budget Office (CBO) report says that under the Affordable Care Act, a.k.a. Obamacare, 30 million non-elderly Americans will remain without health insurance in 2022.

    One of the main arguments the Obama administration made for passing the Affordable Care Act was that it would provide coverage for the uninsured.

    Currently, accoriding to CBO, there are 53 million uninsured persons in the United States, including uninsured illegal aliens. The CBO estimates that in 2022–8 years after the Affordable Care Act has been fully implemented–30 million people will remain uninsured.

    Moreover, under Obamacare, 8 percent of legal U.S. residents will remain without health insurance in 2022, according to CBO.

  366. She is such a big deal to you, you not only assume a cackling crazed killer visited the site but found it so graphic and suggestive, he killed people over it.

    Rabbit, I made no such assumption in the comment you’re replying to. Did you actually bother to read the comment?

    I agree that Tex and HP were Internet friends but as Tex often does, he went over the line in his back and forth with HP now and then. HP did NOT always appreciate it. And I repeat, Tex had some remorse post mortem.

    If I had been Sarah Palin I would have recognized the unfortunate way that my imagery juxtaposed against the shooting and I would have taken the opportunity to take the high road and, as I said, make it a teachable moment for all campaigns using that imagery.

    I’m done discussing this. I’ve expressed this in the clearest English I know how.

  367. Speaking of odd juxtapositions, I’m reading this typically polarized comment thread while listening to a Partridge Family playlist on Spotify. The Partridge Family brings back happy childhood memories.

  368. I agree that Tex and HP were Internet friends but as Tex often does, he went over the line in his back and forth with HP now and then. HP did NOT always appreciate it. And I repeat, Tex had some remorse post mortem.

    Couldn’t we all say we had some post mortem regret about virtually everyone we’ve touched in one way or the other, Saint Rutherford? That is, besides some sanctimonious fool like you, believing in his own goodness? cough cough….

    Jim was a good guy and I believe he knew I thought that. My only regret was pouring it on when I had him down, instead of applying a little mercy, and me never convincing Jim he wrong about the only real subject that ever mattered. 😦 That I was heartbroken about.

  369. And here Romney’s repeating her mistake with a cancer death for Christ’s sake.

    Actually Romney did NOT take a page from Palin’s book. In the responses I’ve seen from Romney himself he has expressed compassion for “Joe” while at the same time calling the ad a low blow.

  370. It just gets better and better.” – Newt

    Explain. How is this better? The tax meme ain’t working out so well, so where is the improvement?

  371. His defiance on this subject — and others that have a similar angle — speaks of a certain depravity that can’t be excused.

    Depraved. 🙄

    Why don’t we make a discussion of “depraved” a sequel to our legendary go round on “disdain”?

    Makes for a great motion picture trailer though — depraved Rutherford sitting in a darkened room with his Palin voodoo doll and the Partridge Family playing in the background.

    Anyone wanna supply a title for the film? How bout “Lawson Impalin’ Palin”?

    I can see it now …. at the film’s premiere someone comes in and shoots up the theater and I get blamed for it.

    And I scream:

    BLOOD LIBEL!!!!!

    😆

  372. people who think they can make money and buy influence in this peculiar Obama system.

    Ahhhh THAT’s why I’ll vote for Obama in November. He’s going to make me so much money!!!!

  373. “I was referring to a mass attack we made over something fairly trivial. I felt sorry for Rutherford on that day.”

    I understand James, but it is preposterous to criticize Palin and I guess Romney for not expressing contrition after being falsely accused of responsibility for the death of someone. It’s plain warped. Vile really. No reckoning just self-pity for having to eat crow — followed by justifications. And here we go again. . .

  374. What a giant cheese curd you are Rutherford. Que dramatic music. “They failed you Mrs. Palin. They failed you”

    Now que angry Latino soap opera music, Rutherford trembling with anger. “Sara Palin, I don’t know if your conscious keeps you up at night….

    So what gives? Should Obama campaigners and the liberal blogosphere be up at night riddled with guilt over the Joker shooting or not? Did rhetoric play a role in the shooting?

    What? No open letter to Barack Obama over the Joker? I’m stunned. You sure are tough when it comes to (read following phrase with intense angry voice) “standing by your words”. You bring a gun to knife fight. Oh crap. Shouldn’t have said….no wait a minute…

  375. White America, the people that actually formed and made this country the greatest nation on earth.

    Wow, who knew Pat Buchanan had started commenting on the blog? 🙂

  376. How many black, “Asian faces”, “brown” faces were there amongst the Founding Fathers again?

    If memory serves, I saw a bunch of marshmallows but zero milk duds in the package.

    BET seems to be the largest, lasting significant contribution, minus the Olympic basketball team. 🙂

    Sorry sport. But when 95% of your voting bloc pulls the switch one way, you will deserve zero support if you happen to lose. Like I said the other night, after the tactics of the Dimocratic party the last six weeks, like the lame excuse of institutional white racism, we can pretty much put the charges of McCarthyism to bed too.

  377. Emily, my Aisian relatives dislike Obama because they are small business people and they are also angry that they had to follow the rules to become citizens while many favored people do not.

    I believe many Jews and others are wedded to an image which once was valid. As you wrote in 468, these groups regarded themselves as outsiders and Democrats were a working class party with which it was easier to identify with than with the elitist Republican party.

    In the same fashion, blacks tended to be Republicans because Lincoln freed the slaves. It changed during the Depression when blacks regarded Democrats as more in tune with their economic interests.

    You asked for my thoughts. Your post is almost identical to mine, and you wrote them better.

  378. Truth is Emily, we are at least 45 days out still to have a real accurate picture of the standings.

    This is one time I really do think the debates will matter much who is President Jan 2013.

    I agree with both these statements. We need the debates because neither side wants to commit to a goddam specific plan for the future. Worst case, both men throw platitudes and insults back and forth. Best case, one emerges as someone with a clue.

  379. Depraved is the right word. A raving lunatic shoots a crowd, including a 9 year old little girl, and Rutherford spends the entire next week blaming, then associating Sara fucking Palin! Years later, the house cat, so much invested in his online political persona ,just can’t stand back and chalk it up for what it was. Pride is a funny thing.

  380. James: I, too, know Asian Americans who dislike Obama and for the same reasons that you raise. I was referring to the polls, which seem to show a much higher support of him than of Romney.

    I think that these cultural and historical issues can’t be ignored. They influence the way people perceive candidates and issues. I don’t think anybody does a very good job of addressing them.

  381. Obviously, Romney has different religious beliefs than a Jimmy Carter or a Santorum. But my guess is that it is threatening for the same reasons.

    Doesn’t Mormonism downplay the importance of Israel? If I’m right, Romney should be toast with American Jews regardless of his buddy buddy relationship with Bibi.

  382. Actually, James, it occurs to me that the last several cycles of Republican candidates have validated that view of the party as elitist and exclusive. Both Bushes (even though George W had much more of a folksy manner, he was Yale and wealthy). McCain (the military legacy and great wealth, even if by marriage). Now Romney.

  383. Poolman, you are right. I am in a bad mood. I am sitting in a library a long way from home on business because our computer shut down again. It is nearly 3PM, and I have had nothing to eat except a candy bar today.

    You misunderstand my point, so here it is again. Sarah Palin was a popular, successful governor of a distant state. She was minding her own business until the McCain campaign decided she might help the ticket.

    The left rightly precieved her as a threat and systematically destroyed her and her family. They could rightly make the case that her being Vice President would be bad for the country. I certainly wouldn’t have voted for her as president. But they didn’t stop with normal political discreditation.

    Democrats and the press treated Palin like the Romans treated Carthage. After they destroyed their rival, they salted the earth to be sure no one would occupy the city state again.

    Sarah and her family are opportunists who were quick to seize the opportunity notariety gave them. They are enriching theselves as they aspire to be another Kardasian family. More power to them. I won’t follow their antics any closer than I do that other family.

    The fact remains that people set out to destroy Palin for political gain, and it is wrong. This has happened before but Sarah earned the nick name “Cuda in highschool. The family is turning its victimazation into financial success.

  384. McCain’s militery “legacy” is some how tied to an example of elitism? Do you understand what the man went through? Bash him all you want. But, for the love of God, his militery legacy wasn’t some inherited pedigree. Dude maintained while living in a small cage.

  385. Seize the moment on caring for them as best they’ll let you, Tex. They belong to a generation we’re wise to honor, and they aren’t going to be replaced.
    Hear hear!!! Muffy says something that redeems her after scolding me. 🙂

    Hey Muffy, I looked for you at the ChicagoLand PMI dinner meeting last night. Where were you?

  386. Rabbit: I am speaking of the fact that he, his father, and his grandfather served with distinction. Three generations. It was a very accomplished family in a sense that few others are. I was not using elitist or exclusive in a pejorative sense. What I am saying is that there are demographics that would not identify with these candidates because of their backgrounds. People make decisions about candidates out of emotion, sometimes against their own self-interest.

  387. Emily, I agree with 500 and 503, but the Republican elitism is more complicated. I have to leave now. I wish you would write here more often.

  388. Thank you, James! Off work today so can. Usually cannot. When you can, I hope you will explain what you mean about Republican elitism being more complicated. I realize I am being simplistic.

  389. Hey R, since you seem to have unique ability to find racial connotation in anything (Lying Lions) I look forward to you comment on this:

    First of all G it wasn’t Lying Lions … it was Lyin’ African.

    Second I don’t find racial connotations in everything, case in point that stupid Allen West ad you posted.

  390. You know what I don’t get G? If Fast and Furious involved losing track of a sh*tload of weapons, then how can all these weapons be traced back to F&F later on? That’s pretty poor plot development.

  391. Hey, they found terrorist/hijacker’s passports on 9/11 amid all the pulverization. I mean, luck is on somebody’s side.

  392. Couldn’t we all say we had some post mortem regret about virtually everyone we’ve touched in one way or the other, Saint Rutherford?

    There are two way to answer that. First, along the lines of the sub-topic of the thread, obviously not “we all” since Sarah Palin had no regret about the way she touched Gabby Giffords and she DID touch her …. Giffords said so on camera disapproving Sarah’s campaign graphics.

    As for the Saint Rutherford bit, I never told you this but I was filled with remorse because right before he died I gave HP a mini-lecture about bullying. To this day I don’t know if he ever even got around to reading the comment I made to make amends before he died. 😦

  393. “Anyone wanna supply a title for the film? How bout “Lawson Impalin’ Palin”?” – R

    Tonight on Hannity, part 27 of our investigative series… From Ruby Ridge to Part-ridge – Palin Saves the Universe.

    In this episode, we explore R.L’s use of voodoo pins and seventies puff on our Heroin and its connection with a little known meeting between Barack Obama’s father and Saul Alinsky in the darkest bowels of Kenya when they formed the first Church of the Black Magic Voodoo Socialist Democrats, or as they are more commonly known, the Order of the Bloody Entitlement.

    BTW, when it airs, the studio audience doesn’t get 3-d glasses. Instead, they pass out dog whistles. 😉

  394. Saint Rutherford part 2: Tex, you also know, if you’ve been paying attention how much I regretted the way I handled my mother’s and grandmother’s deaths.

    Quite frankly, I don’t think Sarah Palin has an ounce of introspection or self-recrimination in her body.

  395. On a more important note, Tex I’m glad to hear your dad is showing improvement. Living part time at a hospital with a sick loved one is tough going. Try to get some rest when you can.

  396. So what gives? Should Obama campaigners …be up at night riddled with guilt over the Joker shooting or not?

    No actually they should be up at night guilty over calling Romney a murderer.

  397. If memory serves, I saw a bunch of marshmallows but zero milk duds in the package.

    If memory serves, the milk duds were working the plantations for zero pay.

  398. Second I don’t find racial connotations in everything, case in point that stupid Allen West ad you posted.” – R

    OMG. Are you fucking serious? A black man beating a white woman and there’s no racial connotation? If the GOP ran a ad showing Obama beating a white woman you’d be covered in your own shit as you scream croaked your lungs out. Have you lost your fucking mind?

    Integrity R. At least be consistent in the things you bitch about…

  399. Pride is a funny thing.

    There’s no pride about it. I have yelled mea culpa numerous times on these threads about jumping on the Twitter frenzy bandwagon regarding Palin in the immediate aftermath of Giffords’ shooting.

    What I stand by is what the entire incident revealed about Palin. The fact you can’t see that makes me wonder if you are a partisan hack, something I would NEVER have thought about you Rabbit.

    On a related note, Gabby just supported the plea bargain that Loughner got. I have to wonder if she was thinking about herself only or that dead little girl?

    Again I repeat … a retarded dude gets executed in TX for killing one adult and Loughner gets off for killing multiple people including a little girl.

    Got anything to say about that Rabbit?

  400. You know what I don’t get G? If Fast and Furious involved losing track of a sh*tload of weapons, then how can all these weapons be traced back to F&F later on? That’s pretty poor plot development.” – R

    R, they ‘tracked’ it via the serial numbers of the guns, which they have. They failed to actively track the guns via other technical means. If you are interested in tracking weapons to see how and where they go, you need and want a LOT more than just serials. Now, if your focus is only on sales, well then, serials might be enough…

  401. until the McCain campaign decided she might help the ticket exploited her.

    I corrected it for you James. THAT was the only real victimization that Palin suffered. McCain and his henchmen looking for any old vagina to raise John’s sagging ratings. They had so little respect for women that they didn’t even bother to look at a few different ones and really vet them. They went for the physically attractive unknown and thought they’d get away with it. Then they (particularly Steve Schmidt and Nicole Wallace) watched with horror at the mistake they’d made.

  402. his militery legacy wasn’t some inherited pedigree

    I get your point Rabbit but McCain was a military brat. He did inherit a military pedigree. But I agree it didn’t make him elite and he did not exploit it when he could have in order to get out of captivity.

    By the time he ran for POTUS he was part of the 1%.

  403. Hey, they found terrorist/hijacker’s passports on 9/11 amid all the pulverization.

    Hey Poolman … if they had only made the planes out of the same material as the passports …. 🙂

  404. If anyone did serious research into McCain’s military days, you would find a much different account than the narrative given the general public. He not only was given special treatment by our top brass, but also had achieved special status as a POW.

    There are a few scathing accounts from folks that served with him.

  405. Quite frankly, I don’t think Sarah Palin has an ounce of introspection or self-recrimination in her body.

    Well then, Sarah Palin is even more screwed up then you think. If this is true, she should have registered as Dimocrat, as she would fit in well with the current Dim party.

    I haven’t met a completely honest lib yet that isn’t either sanctimonious, a hypocrite of Obama like proportions, or a rank propagandist and liar to some regard. Even likable ones like you and Jim. 😉

  406. Sorry G. Passed in the ether.

    But you bring up an interesting point. The fact that they were relying on serial numbers supports the “Vanity Fare” account that insists the guns were never intended to walk, just entrap.

    In the Bush Era Wide Receiver program, tracking devices were installed. Clearly, those guns were intended to walk. The program failed when gunmen started pulling out the devices.

    Wide receiver failed because those running it underestimated the intelligence of their foes. Fast and F. failed because those running it underestimated the weakness of Arizona gun laws.

  407. I tell you there is no white, not for you.

    Now I’m against Romney cos he’s white? Have you lost your mind?

    Lets have you tell the tale Rutherford. Is there anything that could make you not cast an Obama vote? 200 dead Mexicans, no problem. 20,000 workers stripped of their pensions because they were not union, no problem. This cancer death lie, no problem. Campaigning more than any President in history, rather than doing the people’s business, no problem. 41 straight months of over 8% unemployment, no problem. over $5 trillion in debt in 3 years, no problem.

    Anyone care to add to that list, was just off the top of my head.

  408. That is total bull shit poolman. Total slander. I can’t take this shit anymore. Even fast and furious is defended. The cancer comercial. All of it. I need to take a break from some of you politics fan boys for a while. Arguing ideas is one thing. I know some might disagree, but I try to call them like I see them. If Im anything like a few of you, rest assured I don’t want to be that way. Tex, I wish you the best during these trying times for your family. Fuck politics. Gone fishing.

  409. Rutherford & others…American jewry is a different species just like American Catholics. I dare say the other faiths experience a dilution and delusions kind of things but for sure America has an impact on these groups identity and mismatch from their international brethren.

  410. @ poolman #528 the thinking and “reporting” behind what your statement is rooted in is biased and demonstrably false in many key places. (Forrestal for one)
    The context of John McCains career and actions are pretty clear to those who have looked into it;however,there are major factors that are undeniable.

  411. @ Rutherford #522. Dude that is at least the second time you’ve brought up the Loughner:TX comparison thingie. For crying out loud if he was in some of the eastern states he’d get fucking work release and a free college education. The differences between states is what it is and is what the Constitution affords. You got a problem w/ Loughner and what will likely shake out in CO you should be running a campaign for extreme rendition to Texas for these guys.

  412. @ Gorilla 521 & the related rutherfordians. I think G makes a good point and at a min it shows the hypocrisy of leftists in the imagery they use and that which they do get outraged about.
    Case in point the Ford v Corker ad….remember that on R?
    Lets look at the visual on this ad. Old lady=white. young lady looking for Flukedom I guess=white. Family needing government assistance=blacks,well at least they had the decency to have the dad in the scene.
    I don’t know. Eye of the beholder or is it on the guy holding the camera?
    Bottom line I have to side with G that the Allen West attack ad is loaded with subtle yet malicious race imagery.

  413. Rabbit, if you truly mean it, that’s unfortunate. I enjoy your company here. I have a soft spot for teachers and Navy guys and people that can make me laugh. You, of course, are all three.

  414. The Urban Dictionary, an fast-evolving online lexicon that promotes itself as “the dictionary you wrote,” has added a new definition of Reid that seems calculated to respond to the Nevada senator’s recent claims about Romney’s alleged federal income tax evasion.

    “Harry Reid,” the dictionary now says, is defined as “[a]n unofficial rap sheet of alleged pederasty and sexual abuse of minors by anonymous sources that may not exist.”

    The definition emerged, the dictionary notes, “after an explosion of reports surfaced online and on the airwaves, that [Reid] is a serial pederast. The outlets reporting the allegations all protected the anonymity of their sources, and no one knows if the allegations are true, but they’re out there. A spokesperson for Reid declined to deny them.”

    So I guess the question is, is Santorum a result of Harry Reid, or just a byproduct of such?

  415. Alfie,

    Frankly, I was a little shocked R didn’t disassociate and distance from the ad, but to deny that there are any racial connotations in it- shit, has me flummuxed. How the hell can you not see the black man threat to white women stereotype in that ad? Or the black man stealing from folks stereotype as well.

    If R really and truly had any integrity, he would have dumped all over that ad for the crock of shit that it is.

  416. You can thank citizens u. for the cancer ad. If you don’t like it, get the money out of elections so we can have an honest debate.

    If it’s the lying you guys and gals don’t like then stop following politics. They both do it because they are both politicians. Just like football coaches, a few good eggs in the ranks, but most will do anything to win. Almost everything else is secondary.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/mitt-romneys-nonsensical-claim-about-obamacare/2012/06/11/gJQAdGtdVV_blog.html

    R, I’m curious. Was there this passionate an outcry about “death panels” on the RL Blog back in the day? I mean, cancer by association isn’t any worse than killing Grandma by committee, is it?
    Did those accusations “sicken” the panel?

  417. Thor, the only folks lying in this is Obama’s campaign.

    Newt, the left ties race to EVERYTHING. Correction, the left ties race to everything on the right, which is a wee bit odd considering that it is the left that constantly focuses on race.

    So R’s white wife means nothing when he still ties race to everything.

    And by the by, my wife of color means nothing too since I don’t tie race to anything.

    Grow up child…

  418. A black man beating a white woman and there’s no racial connotation?

    G, it would have been a no-win for West. If he was seen beating a black woman it wouldn’t have been much better.

    Anyway you’re stretching. The ad is too silly to be offensive.

  419. Is there anything that could make you not cast an Obama vote?

    Contrary to the current GOP meme, this is a country, not a corporation. We don’t get to fire the CEO and then look for a good replacement. In this case, the “replacement” is already lined up and he doesn’t cut it. So I shall vote to keep the current “CEO” no matter how inadequate until I have a better CEO to put in the job.

    P.S. Anyone interested in attacking a POTUS can come up with a great list. I could start Ronald Reagan off with Iran-Contra and then if I wanted to do the research I could expand the list from there. Yet Reagan is now regarded as a “great President”.

    10 or 20 years from now when universal health care gets the kinks worked out, Obama will go down in history as the first President to finally tackle it after many attempts by Presidents on both sides of the aisle.

    So bottom line, your list of grievances is fueled by anti-Obama fanaticism, shared by many in your party. He is far from perfect. He is not the disaster you make him out to be.

    Because the GOP decided to conduct a clown show instead of finding a credible replacement for Obama, they may very well lose in November. If that happens, the country will survive four more years of Obama. Take my word for it. And if the GOP doesn’t get its act together, that will be followed by eight years of Hillary Clinton. 🙂

  420. Alfie, as things develop I don’t see Loughner and Holmes going the same way. Loughner plead guilty. Holmes is going for an insanity defense last I heard.

    Your point about state differences is valid of course. So maybe I should just drop the Loughner gripe and limit myself to complaining about the TX execution. What I heard was that the dude was mentally retarded. Is that what we’ve come to? We now kill the retarded?

  421. G, I congratulate the right on finally having their answer to “santorum”. Even though I’ve partaken of the occasional santorum joke myself, there is no denying how juvenile it is. Harry set himself up for this urban dictionary entry.

    In fact, I even have to confess the Harry Reid “definition” is more clever than the Santorum one, which just aimed to be disgusting.

  422. Thor not only was there no objection to death panels but some RL denizens insist they exist in the ACA to this day.

    That’s just the tip of the iceberg. I haven’t seen a single GOP lie called out for what it is among these folks.

  423. There won’t be healthcare in ten years as Rutherford understands it. Pfesser understands this and I understand this. And Rutherford will be one of its victims because he is most vulnerable.

    Ironic that his celebration of a fraud for a short time will eventually lead to Rutherford’s own undoing. His arrogance, duplicity and conceit will cost him dearly – because he’s just sure this American dream can end. History repeating itself.

    Unfortunately, it will claim many needless innocent victims too in the process.

  424. since I don’t tie race to anything

    You either wear rose colored glasses or you are in denial. You didn’t seem to have to dig down too deep to find all sorts of dog whistles in the West ad.

    One of Stephen Colbert’s running jokes is “I don’t see color”. Mind you, it’s a joke …. and he knows it …. and the audience knows it.

  425. “We now kill the retarded?”

    Are you asking for stats on the babies aborted after Down’s Syndrome prenatal testing?

  426. “In this case, the “replacement” is already lined up and he doesn’t cut it.”

    No, he doesn’t. What with all the killing people and hating women and whatnot.

  427. Maybe their is a reason Willard is talking about attack ads instead of the economy.

    Thor I think you reversed cause and effect. He isn’t focusing on nasty campaigning because he doesn’t inspire voter confidence on his economics. He’s lost voter confidence in his economics because he’s spending too much time griping about attack ads and not enough time spelling out his message.

    Of course it hasn’t helped that independent sources have deemed Romney’s economic plan a work of fantasy.

  428. How about a refresher? List a few off the top of your head.

    We’ve already hit death panels. Now let’s add “you didn’t build that” to the list. How ’bout the ad a few months ago with Obama saying “if the election is about the economy, we lose” when he was actually quoting John McCain. I’m sure Thor and Newt could come up with some others.

  429. So I shall vote to keep the current “CEO” no matter how inadequate until I have a better CEO to put in the job.

    Thanks for proving every point I have made about you since I appeared. At least you were honestest enough to admit it. Is still amazing to see people like you exist, truly sad.

  430. Are you asking for stats on the babies aborted after Down’s Syndrome prenatal testing?

    Very valid point. I consider abortion of “disabled” fetuses to be reprehensible. It certainly would not have been in my self interest.

    But you’ve tossed in a red herring …. do you support executing mentally retarded adults?

  431. Ironic that his celebration of a fraud for a short time will eventually lead to Rutherford’s own undoing. His arrogance, duplicity and conceit will cost him dearly – because he’s just sure this American dream can end. History repeating itself.

    My proof that karma does exist me thinks.

    Have you all noticed that 99% of Rutherford’s answers are to point out something that right did rather than actually answer the question? What this tells me is nothing he has to say, no opinion he forms can stand on its own merits.

  432. What with all the killing people and hating women and whatnot.

    Nice try. I don’t need to go with fiction to say Romney does not cut it. His foreign policy is belligerent (I’d actually say faux-belligerent. I don’t find him a very convincing hawk.) His economic plans have already been torn asunder by impartial analysts.

  433. R, I’m asking for what was said here.

    We’ve discsuused Obama;s speach. You just put your fiongers in your ears and act like he didn’t say what he said and didn’t mean what he meant.

  434. His economic plans have already been torn asunder by impartial analysts.

    links please or it didn’t happen. Remember your qualification, Impartial.

  435. “speech” “fingers”

    I don’t remember the economy one discussed here (or reported for theta matter.

    The one do remember was about the unemployment rate making his election a one term proposition.

    Now that attack ads are outright lies. Reid’s comments are outright lies. Everything put of Holder;s mouth is a lie. This was your new and transparent presidency and you don’t care.

  436. “I consider abortion of “disabled” fetuses to be reprehensible.”

    Liar. You just hate women and want to crawl up their va-jay-jays.

    “….do you support executing mentally retarded adults?”

    No. I consider it reprehensible.

  437. Have you all noticed that 99% of Rutherford’s answers are to point out something that right did rather than actually answer the question?

    Thor does the same. They conjecture about Romney, but they know of Obama’s futility. Neither are stupid as Obama’s record so dismal and so utterly atrocious, there is no argument. Obama is black so Rutherford, I can understand. It’s personal and Rutherford believes a direct reflection upon 95% of black America. I’ve tried to explain it’s not Obama’s blackness the cause of the failure – it’s his arrogance, narcissism, evil nature, and sometimes even rank idiocy.

    What I can’t figure out about Thor is if he gave half the effort to simply reflection upon the obvious failure as he does defending the failure or deflecting from the failure, why he would still feel required to be beholden to the failure. Now that is a riddle with no answer. I’d have to know more of his history.

    However, Newton may indeed be that dumb or deluded. There’s a multitude of bleating sheep, of which she is one. I wish Obama would hurry up and get them to slaughter to see could move on from the noise.

  438. LOL Newt … Mitt as Facebook was classic. 🙂

    BTW … to Gorilla, were you implying by one of your earlier links that you are a “Conservative Leaning Centrist”? Does this actually describe you:

    Your views call for roughly same amount of goverment and liberty that we have today, with some desire for more economic freedom and more government control over certain personal behaviors.

    It appears that you are relatively happy with the status quo, with probably some desire for more Republicans in office.

    I like the closer: Since you are close to the center, the “signal” may be lost in the “noise.”

    Damn that describes most of the conservatives on this blog. 😆

  439. I know you guys on my side think I’m a little radical in my leanings, but I’m telling you, there is no room for the Leftists of America if you want to save her. 😐

    They veil is thick over their eyes, they are wrong about everything of importance, and you better start dreaming up ways to cut them loose, or they’ll sink you too.

    The election is only postponing the inevitable battle that will ensue.

  440. You just put your fiongers in your ears and act like he didn’t say what he said and didn’t mean what he meant.

    Nonsense. I know what he said. I know what he meant. And I know what you distorted.

  441. “Move on from the noise,” Tex? Good lord, ‘you people’ (sorry, I couldn’t help myself) are refighting 40 year old settled law over and over. That is kind of futile don’t you think?

  442. No stroke – or a previous stroke shown as a lesion or mass on the brain. That is what made the diagnosis so difficult for the doctors. It appeared that oxygen was being interrupted to the brain – a stroke.

    The signs pointed toward a stroke caused by a possible mass, which was accompanied by a small temperature, of which all of us assumed caused by the body being stressed indicated by the elevated blood pressure and enhanced pulse, and a urinary tract infection – or possible viral or bacterial meningitis. Viruses are notoriously hard to detect and treat.

    No one, not even the doctors, gave much thought to something like West Nile. When the definitive results came back from the lab which took several days obtained from spinal fluid, everyone was stunned.

    But it makes sense. Since my dad has rheumatoid arthritis, an autoimmune condition, the medication used to treat condition compromises the immune system. Naturally, that makes one more susceptible to disease. Why it never occurred to any of us, is my dad is legally blind and seldom outside. They do live beside a creek, but have for 40 years.

  443. @ Rutherford….I take exception to a number of your positions on display here.
    First off the long election cycle has not helped candidate or voter. There will fortunately be a rebirth of sorts post the conventions which will allow a debate of issues. Although there will no doubt continue to be negative campaigning the voters will at least have a chance to hear the freshest most up to date and honest takes.

    #2 I think your take on Romney is all wrong. Romneys FP stance do appear hawkish/Jacksonian to some but in reality (and continuing with the Walter Russell Meade scale) I’d say you would most likely see a president Romney being a Hamiltonian and fairly solidly so. This would be a first of for some time in our history. This contrasts with Obamas Wilsonian to pseudo Jeffersonian swings.
    # 3 Romney will be able to represent a better economic message and one which will capture voters at the right time PROVIDING he doesn’t @#$k it up with VP choice.
    All in all it is all in Romneys court to win or lose. He must win certain states,he must have a good convention,he must do well in the debates and he must make a good VP choice.

  444. I agree with Tex. This is a very fragile state we are in. Just trying to secure a hospital bed for my MIL has been an eye-opener.

    The biggest difference is I don’t see that we have 10 years. Not America as we’ve know it, anyway. The ongoing staging of military equipment and personnel domestically assures me (and others) we are on the brink of a police state.

    The treatment of peaceful protesters, attack on the first and second amendments, and the crackdown on privacy, including recent drone surveillance entered in court, are all key clues to our future greater enslavement.

    Go fishing while you still can.

  445. I don’t mean this in a glib or flippant way Tex…
    Thank you Rachel Carson. Thank you for West Nile and EEE in the 21st freaking century in the US of A taking out humans.

  446. Wanted to take this one singly. R the “death panels” hyperbole isn’t based in a lie.This has been pointed out to you and others in a very civil manner time and again.

  447. “Move on from the noise,” Tex? Good lord, ‘you people’ (sorry, I couldn’t help myself) are refighting 40 year old settled law over and over. That is kind of futile don’t you think?

    Naturally, your inane enough to assume ‘you people’ refers to color. It does not, nor is the reference to anything of Jim Crow if that is what you insinuate. But it shouldn’t surprise, as the most racist people in America are invariably on the Left.

    I hold accountable many blacks in America for being so easily hoodwinked by a bunch of self serving white intellects, so easily duped by the clear results of Obama’s failure. I hold them accountable for their abject stupidity of incorrectly measuring what government dependency has wrought – destitute and poor, used by their new slave owners.

    What I can’t blame them for is not understanding Obama is not black America and could care less what happens to them. It’s a clear ruse. Obama is white academia, smug and arrogant, self-absorbed and self serving. All he is interested in their loyalty and obedience. He has no intent of bettering them.

    But it is a 40 year war of sorts. I would say closer to 60. The color of skin is irrelevant. The philosophy of failed progressive politics is what I was referring.

    Newton, truth be known, I don’t want you to be a part of my country. You are a disease upon the healthy body that cannot be cured by normal methods of maturity and wisdom. There are those like you, so unreachable to decency and so unteachable to reality, that the only solution is to separate ourselves from your wickedness and deceit.

  448. Tex, wrong war, “But it is a 40 year war of sorts. I would say closer to 60. The color of skin is irrelevant. The philosophy of failed progressive politics is what I was referring.” That wasn’t what I was talking about, but then I understand the confusion and the not letting it go. I worked in the South the winter of the Gulf War, everyone wanted to talk to me, the Yankee, about the war. I always had to ask, now which war are we talking about, the Gulf War or the Civil War? It wasn’t alway clear.

  449. Tigre, just for giggles:

    de·praved
       [dih-preyvd]
    adjective
    corrupt, wicked, or perverted.

    So let me understand this. My saying Sarah Palin did not take the high road post Gabby shooting makes me corrupt, wicked or … wait for it … perverted?

    dis·dain
       [dis-deyn, dih-steyn]
    verb (used with object)
    1.
    to look upon or treat with contempt; despise; scorn.

    McCain and Huckabee are well known to have HATED Romney. Please remind me how I lost the disdain argument again? 😉

  450. You either wear rose colored glasses or you are in denial. You didn’t seem to have to dig down too deep to find all sorts of dog whistles in the West ad.” – R

    No R, I don’t see race, but I do recognize hypocrisy. And as I’ve stated many times, if it wasn’t for double standards, the left would have no standards. MSDNC talks nonstop about the dog-whistle racism of the GOP, a dog-whistle that apparently only the left can hear. But you’re a bald-faced liar if you tell me that if the West ad had been against Obama that you and the left wouldn’t be going apoplectic ape-shit at the “dog-whistle” racism in the ad. Come on man, grow some balls and be honest with us, you at least owe us that. Otherwise, don’t bring up race ever again.

  451. @ 598 since we’re apparently playing the Mr Webster game today:

    hyperbole |hīˈpərbəlē|
    noun
    exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

  452. R, I actually didn’t care for the test because I didn’t think the choices were really reflective of what I believe.

    For instance I think SS should be privatized, but I also think that the payroll tax cap should be removed, age for withdrawal should be raised and that the trust fund be re-secured from the general fund so Dems can’t fucking touch it. So its a little more nuanced than just ‘privatize’.

  453. Death panels: Since it was true then and none of AHA has been repealed, these panels must now be up and running.

    Name the members of death panels.
    Where do they meet?
    Are these meetings recorded?
    Name those already ordered to their deaths.
    Name the budget amounts appropriated for said executions.

  454. @559 Rutherford says:
    That’s just the tip of the iceberg. I haven’t seen a single GOP lie called out for what it is among these folks.
    Are you fucking kidding me?!?!?!?!?!
    In comments here and posts at my own blog I have many times called out the points I’ve often titled Right Wing Inanity.

  455. “BTW, my desire to crawl up their va-jay-jays has more to do with my love of women.” – R

    This is probably why she hid from you at the PMI meeting. 😉

    What is PMI anyway? Project Manager Infidels?

  456. We’re talking about the spiritual war for the hearts of America, Newton. I know you don’t recognize that fact, because you are blind. You seem a nice enough person, passive aggressive type, but your thoughts and your ways lead to destruction, your a party to evil without recognizing it, your a friend to vicious and mendacious propaganda. I don’t wish to hurt you but I have no intent of being hurt by your ilk either.

    Your being nice is negated by your dishonesty and deflection of the truth. Look at what you focus. Tax returns, polls, and innuendo. You don’t even condemn the jack booted tactics and the proven lies and you most certainly don’t want to talk about what ails us; Obama’s agenda cannot possibly fix it, and is in large measure a huge part of the problem, perhaps the biggest part of our problem.

    We now have 100,000,000 of our citizens receiving entitlement – which does not included earned “entitlement” of SS and Medicare which they’ve paid. Food stamps are up almost 250% in twelve years. Yet, apparently you find that healthy. Federal disability up over 200% in less than 20 years, yet you find that charitable.

    You’re on the wrong side of the war, a war you cannot by definition win. You will lose without change, but in the process, many will be hurt because of your blindness and selfishness – perhaps irrevocably. I can guarantee that.

  457. @ 611 I don’t like Sarah Palin and am not necessarily speaking of Sarah Palin. Although I recognize her as a primary driver if not genesis of “death panels” I find it highly unlikely she was not at least somewhat vetted in the AHRQ

  458. Alfie, like you killed my wife through cancer? Would that qualify for “hyperbole”?

    LOL here’s the problem with you guys. … you don’t know when to quit while you’re ahead. Sarah Palin used the term “death panels”. The “cancer ad” never has Joe Soptic saying “Mitt Romney killed my wife”.

    I’m not defending the cancer ad by any means … and I said so over at your blog G, but the ad insinuates … it does not exaggerate. There is a difference. The difference does not redeem the ad in any way shape or form but it does put it in a different category from “death panels” which is a very specific exaggeration.

  459. Name the members of death panels.

    Nameless, faceless governmental bureaucrats reaching decisions without public input. It actually happens to a degree now, but will become lawful and unequally applied. Fortunate son.

    Where do they meet?

    In any one of these offices without personal accountability

    http://dailybail.com/home/obamacare-complicated-check-out-the-flow-chart.html

    Are these meetings recorded?

    No need – they will have absolute authority. Are IRS meeting recorded now for public consumption?

    Name those already ordered to their deaths.

    Terry Schiavo was only the most obvious example

    Name the budget amounts appropriated for said executions.

    No need for a budget, as the question specious. Neglect costs nothing for anyone but those directly involved and their families. Pulling a plug and withdrawal of water comes cheap.

  460. @ thor….well the AHRQ and the USPSTF have been around longer than Obama has been in the Oval but it is generally accepted that they were given new importance by the ACA. The most controversial act by these folks was of course the mammogram guideline thing.
    The general and legitimate concern is that the ACA will allow,nah mandate these entities and others to morph into the US version of the UK’s NICE.
    Some evidence that justifies this has recently started to move in MA where Obama-lite the prequel Deval Patrick has created a task force to tackle the skyrocketing healthcare costs we have experienced secondary to ObamaCare Jr,RomneyCare.
    I don’t really have to get all linkie on the meetings right?

  461. Are you fucking kidding me?!?!?!?!?!

    Comment duly noted Alfie. Don’t assume I am referring to you with every “these guys” statement I make. You do tend to be the exception when it comes to partisan hackery.

  462. ”Nonsense. I know what he said. I know what he meant. And I know what you distorted.”

    A moot point but the distortion is in requiring that the listener ignore the object in the sentence as delivered and backtrack through previous sentences to retrieve the intended object.

    Moot because it’s like equating cheating on your spouse with leaving the toilet seat up.

    I’ve noticed that the president is far less enthralling in transcript form. He’s kind of a lamethrower.

    Interestingly, the “romney killed my wife” ad doesn’t require such linguistic topology acrobatics.

  463. R, your starters were pretty good.

    I would add “Clinton didn’t have a surplus”.

    Also, I would add the “Obama wastes taxpayer money on needless trips” thingy. I brought up the point recently about Romney subsidizing his European trip with taxpayer funded SS. Alfie gave a respectable, thoughtful reply (as would be expected). The rest of these hypocritical partisan bozos wouldn’t touch it, even though last year it seemed to be the greatest travesty ever perpetrated on the U.S. citizenry.

    My third would be “Katrina just happened, Bush couldn’t help it.”
    Anybody remember the devastating storm last summer without googling it? Irene, right? Massive destruction, nothing that can stop it. Lives lost? Under 100. Amazing that the community organizer was able to bungle his way through another moment that required leadership. CEO dude lost over 1000 on his watch.

    R, while I was sifting through the death panel archives here (btw, discovering cursory brushoffs from our “outraged” companions) I noticed a certain Elric6. I swear to God, if he isn’t Nagic, then jackasses must birth twins. I mean, he was calling you dodger, demanding answers to questions, repeatedly. He wasn’t using Messiah in the comments I skimmed, but he constantly referred to Obama as “Thuggy”. Exact same MO. Must give you nightmares. 😉

  464. “I don’t really have to get all linkie on the meetings right?”

    No, it’s enough for me to know that Romney and the English were actually the genesis of death panels. Thank you. Hey, I kind of like this hyperbole stuff. 😉

  465. ooooh thor you have served up some red meat for the sharks.

    I like being honest on Clinton. Triangulation was killer politicking, he was a master. Strictly speaking he had a surplus and a deficit,if we’re being honest. The on/off budget items and borrowing between the two,I don’t think any other POTUS has tried that.
    One thing I pointed out to Rutherford before was how recent POTUS vacayed on partisan lines. The Bush’s & RR went “home”. The Obama’s and Clintons went places,usually someone else’s home. My point then and my sub point now is that especially in austere times and times of political scruples being in high question,image means something right? I readily concede sending AF1 and the fleet of stuff it entails to Kennebunkport or the ranch ain’t cheap. Taking over boutique hotels in foreign lands though? Again image. Just my rambling 2 cents there.
    Katrina is a sore spot for me. I think blame is available for many folks not just W. The feds looked terrible at many stages of that event and thats being kind but really? really! the city and state govt and the people themselves deserve some of the scorn too.

  466. “Nonsense. I know what he said. I know what he meant. And I know what you distorted.

    You tell me exactly what I distorted Mr. Reading comprehension. Seriously.

  467. I know you guys on my side think I’m a little radical in my leanings, but I’m telling you, there is no room for the Leftists of America if you want to save her.

    I used to think that Tex. I was wrong. Your vision just saw further ahead than mine. Now I think you are maybe too tempered. People like newt and thor have no place in our country. Were I king for a day I would see to it, by any means necessary, that this was so. I only give Rutherford a temporary pass because I am not 100% decided if his apparent open mindedness at times is a ruse or if he is actually sometimes taking thoughtful consideration of opposing points of view.

    I think what I posted from fat grannies is true. These leftists think that somehow it will all just work out. We will decide our money is worth more, and then we will print more, and then pay for everything, just like that. I honestly (no honestly) believe they are not capable of honestly understanding the long term consequences Obama and Leftist policies in general will have on our country. They have became too fat too comfortable and complacent. NOTHING, but a radical blow to this country that changes how we will all be forced to live will wake them to the reality of the damage that they have done.

    For proof you only have to look to Rutherford’s answer. Nothing his Messiah could do would change his vote, nothing. We have a group of people who are more loyal to their party and the notion of fair than they are to their own well being or that of their family. It is akin to a brain washed religious cult. Reason doesn’t matter. Facts do not matter. They just know they have to be this way. Even if they end up being lemmings going over a cliff to their deaths, they will happily do so because they believe so blindly of their misguided notions of what is right.