Why Do Liberals Censor?

As I go through the Spring cleaning process of removing cobwebs from my mind I find from time to time the need to question my own tribe, the political liberal. One phenomenon I have noticed is the liberal’s need to censor speech he finds offensive. I got a dose of this first hand about a year ago when I visited a liberal blog, expressed a sentiment slightly off the “talking points” and found myself ridiculed and worse, discovered some of my comments edited.  But let’s not make this about me. Let’s look at a famous recent case.

Rush Limbaugh referred to Sandra Fluke, a congressional committee witness, as a slut. He was making an absurd point about her birth control testimony. It was crude and offensive. He eventually offered an apology of sorts. But what ensued after his original statement seems typical of the left. Petitions went out immediately to urge sponsors to drop his show. The goal no doubt was to either shut him up or put him off the air. Now I personally have no use for Rush Limbaugh but the far more effective strategy in my book is to argue with him. Go head to head with him. Write about his foolishness so it gets the disinfectant of media attention. But why the need to fire him? Why the need to silence him? Groups like change.org and Daily Kos spend a good amount of time trying to financially punish people with whom they disagree. Now don’t get me wrong. I have nothing against boycotts to encourage proper corporate behavior but to curtail free speech? To me that’s a bit much.

Contrast this with the conservative reaction to conservative commentator S.E. Cupp’s being defamed in Hustler magazine. Cupp was photo-shopped to appear as though she were fellating a disembodied penis. Accompanying the fake picture was Hustler’s political “justification” for creating it. I have not read a single article about conservatives calling for the firing of Larry Flynt or the termination of his magazine. Despite the incredibly vulgar attack against Cupp, the most I have seen conservatives do is yell loud and clear about the liberal (and feminist) double standard that keeps them from repudiating this kind of attack when a conservative is the victim.

Another example, actually the one that moved me to write this piece, occurred in The Chronicle of Higher Education. In an April article, writer Naomi Schaefer Riley wrote about the topics of Black Studies theses at certain universities. Her piece was titled “The Most Persuasive Case for Eliminating Black Studies? Just Read the Dissertations.” She found a bunch of dissertations that she considered liberal “claptrap”. She has a right to her opinion. After being attacked for the piece, she wrote a follow-up, not apologizing but defending her original article. At that point, she was summarily fired and the Chronicle issued this apology:

When we published Naomi Schaefer Riley’s blog posting on Brainstorm last week (“The Most Persuasive Case for Eliminating Black Studies? Just Read the Dissertations”), several thousand of you spoke out in outrage and disappointment that The Chronicle had published an article that did not conform to the journalistic standards and civil tone that you expect from us.

We’ve heard you, and we have taken to heart what you said.

We now agree that Ms. Riley’s blog posting did not meet The Chronicle’s basic editorial standards for reporting and fairness in opinion articles. As a result, we have asked Ms. Riley to leave the Brainstorm blog.

So, all it takes is several thousand whining liberals to break this magazine’s backbone and throw their employee under the bus? The Chronicle knew what they were getting when they hired Riley. What the heck does “fairness in opinion articles” mean? When is opinion ever  “fair”? Opinion is by definition biased. But Riley violated the critical liberal law of “don’t criticize black people”. And so she was canned. As an aside, Riley is married to a black man.

If conservatives, on the other hand tried to silence vitriolic rhetoric from the left, Keith Olbermann’s career would have been ended by conservatives and not by …. Keith Olbermann. Ed Schulz who called Laura Ingraham a slut would have been fired long ago. (He was admonished and he did apologize but I doubt it was from any boycott campaign by conservatives.)

Bottom line, to me conservatives tend to fight fire with fire while liberals fight fire with “get him fired.”


Art by Ian Marsden from Montpellier (Rush Limbaugh by Ian Marsden) [CC-BY-2.0], via Wikimedia Commons

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320 thoughts on “Why Do Liberals Censor?

  1. “Give me reason to prove me wrong…
    Every line and every lie
    and every truth that you deny…
    across this new divide”

    Linkin Park

    That is how I imagine most conservatives argue. I wish liberals argued that way too.

    I agree with you. What do you think causes the difference?

    By the way, Youtube has a video of Linkin Park singing this song before a live audience. The fans wave their arms and take pictures with their cell phones with later posting on YouTube. The singers point their microphones at the crowd and they sing the words as well as the band.

    Linkin Park, the personification of decadent capitalistic culture was performing in Red Square at the world premier of Transformers. One of the bright spots of the first weekend of Men in Black was Russia.

    Do liberals fear that folks like Rush or Beck will defeat their ideology as Linkin Park helped defeat the Russian communists?

  2. From the last thread, I agree thor about the nose under the tent.

    I am a hater, Rutherford. I hate weeds in my garden. I murdered many of them this afternoon.

  3. Liberals in general tend to be increasingly strident and totally intolerant of anyone who doesn’t follow the party line.

    That is a left-handed compliment to you, old friend. You are not.

    And thanks again for use of your blog to add an opposing point of view. I find that your greatest strength and virtually unique in your circles.

  4. Rutherford are trying to get Sandi to leave you? You keep making sense and Debbie Wasserman Shultz et al will be nuking you.

  5. Wow. A new low for Liberals.

    Better get the message out ladies. Debbie. Nancy. Hill. You leave this one alone and you might as well turn in your Woman cards.

  6. How About We Compare the Investment Records of Bain Capital and the Obama Administration?


    If Bain Capital buys and fails on any particular investment, the wreckage is contained to the employees of the business that was bought, the investors, and Bain management. It also means that if Bain does it too often they will be unsuccessful in raising the next round of capital.

    Conversely, when the government fails, it fails on a far larger scale, particularly if the investing is done via many entities having a similar industry focus. With government investing, we all become venture capitalists, whether or not it fits our individual risk profiles.

    Bain diversified itself by risking capital in a variety of industries and not going all in for any one sector. That way, its eggs are not all in one industry basket and it looks more like the overall economy.

    In contrast, the administration’s attempts to invest in “green” technology, no matter what one’s views are about the efficacy of “green” technology, are a fool’s bet. Even were it able to discern winners from losers, the inevitability of bad investing in one sector should be apparent to all. ~ David Horwich

    Great article. Let us have a real debate lefties about something important, if you dare.


  7. “R”,

    I’ll give you a good example of leftist thuggery. You remember the Komen Foundation brouhaha some months back?

    And the MSM and the Left threatened the Foundation when they canceled their contribution to Planned Parenthood, then browbeat Komen into rescinding? And for a very short time, donations actually skyrocketed to Komen and the MSM and all the leftists flipped the rest of the bird?

    Well, that was then. This is now.

    Are you aware that Komen is having to cancel many of the Race for the Cure Runs – their largest fundraiser. All across the nation, participation is way down.

    And what once was a thriving foundation, is suddenly laying staff off just to make ends meet?

    See, this is why I disdain leftists, the MSM and their agenda. They leave a wake of destruction with their jackbooted fascism, though it may not appear that way at the outset, but you never see the end result of their works and the house of cards crumbles, leftists are no where to be found to do the repair.


  8. This is as good as it gets, Poolman.

    I know, James. That’s really the scary part. I am trying to decide when it was we peaked, but really, it could have been downhill since the start. 😐

  9. I honestly don’t mean this as a knock on the embedders and sharers but really,really are comedians really the source of wisdom we think they are?

  10. I think the Komen Foundation was exposed as the self-promoting and self-serving organization it was. The administration got big salaries and the donations mostly went to promotion, with very little left for any research.

    Really, there are plenty of rea$on$ for $u$an B to never find a cure.

  11. Alfie, I think comedians are able to speak the truth where journalists have been censored. That just happens to be the world in which we live. I’ll take truth anywhere I can get it. 😀

  12. I don’t mean to pile on, but I think part of it has to deal with personality. Liberals tend to be whiner, tattletale types who are constantly pleading for Mrs, Crabtree to make things fair because they can’t cut the mustard. Liberals usually aren’t very cool to hang out with. Easy to offend. Cheap. Sad. Snitches. Pussies. Pretentious. Superficial.

  13. Easy to offend. Cheap. Sad. Snitches. Pussies. Pretentious. Superficial.

    😆 You forgot whores and traitors. How is Mr. Ruben this evening?

    My wife takes my Acura to Houston. Gets to Corsicana, TX, and gets in a hailstorm. Beats the shiite out of the car.

    She says it scares the heck out of her. She drives 10 miles down the road, and an 18 wheeler throws a rock and cracks the front wind shield. 😡

    I think Rutherford’s luck is starting to rub off.

  14. That cock sucker Billy backed off just a cunt hair. The doctor admitted to us she had been reading the notes from the NICU everyday because there is weirdness with this issue she can’t put her finger on. That being said, a drop of even a decimal point is a huge victory and probably a sign this thing is history. They don’t even want to take blood until Monday they are so optimistic.

  15. R, thank you for your kind words about “Fog”.

    Let me tell you a little story about Tex, your cyber “friend” and “Fog”, just as a warning to you. I know it belongs on the last thread, but I didn’t want you to miss it.

    Shortly after I landed here, after being “researched” by Tex, he solicited some personal information. I gave some up, nothing that he couldn’t have found anyway, but it was a moment of trust and I even told him I didn’t talk about it here because most of it was far too personal for 1111’s and 0000’s.

    It’s the web. I’m a big boy. I understand that there are no rules. But the thing about having no rules is it forces you to have your own rules. That’s why I try to thank you (not often enough) for allowing me to crash this party. That’s why I try to treat James with respect, because he treats me with respect, even though we are far apart on many issues. Having no rules forces you to show your true nature.

    When I gave Tex that information, that trust, he followed his rules. He said something about a neighbor kid he helped, he said he would read “Fog” and then he never mentioned it again. Little did I know that his rules meant store it to use as a weapon. I guess he thought he would punish me by mocking the piece, as if I could feel hurt by the critique of someone who doesn’t even know what a poem is. 🙂

    I really enjoy coming here and I won’t let Tex steal that from me, but I am going to ignore his posts. If one comes up you wish for my opinion on, I will address it. He comments more than anyone so it could happen.

    I’m sorry this is so long.
    Just wanted you to know.

  16. Tex let me give you a couple of clues about your PJ Media article. First it is full of sh*t in that it repeats the lie that Churchill’s bust was sent back to UK. It was not … it was moved to another room in the White House. I love how old lies never die.

    Second Lech Walesa can lick my balls. The bastard, not content to enjoy his status as a hero with dignity and charity went on record to say that Obama did not deserve the Nobel Peace prize. Now let’s get this straight … Obama did NOT deserve the Nobel Peace Prize but it was petty and nasty for Walesa to weigh in on it.

    I don’t blame Obama for telling Lech to shove a kielbasa up his ass and stay the hell home. 👿

  17. Regarding comment 5 … Tex I know you think some of us stupid, but we are capable of scrolling up if we find ourselves in the comments section. 😐

    What’s this love fest with CFB anyway? Who is he?

  18. Lets not forget that push by the left to force radio stations to carry Liberal talk radio shows.

    As to the why Rutherford I have been researching this for 2 years. To me it comes down to the quality, or lack of, of the people we are talking about. Conservatives don’t in my opinion because what we believe in is based in age old common sense. This is a very hard thing to argue against.


    Rather than fight an uphill battle that would ultimately make them look foolish, they try to do everything to divide and distract from these central beliefs. In short this is the tactic of a dishonorable people with less than honorable intentions.

  19. I honestly don’t mean this as a knock on the embedders and sharers but really,really are comedians really the source of wisdom we think they are?

    Alfie, I do think Carlin is in a class by himself. His observations are right on very often. My only problem with Carlin is when he starts talking about how “we” are getting screwed by the man and then I wonder “what’s this we sh*t?” Carlin in his later years was one rich f*ck so his protests against the “man” seem a bit much to me.

  20. A couple of things Noah … first … I’m not nearly as troubled by libs wanting equal time as I am by their wanting to silence the opposition. The more communication the better.

    I also don’t buy the “common sense” thing. I think libs have loads of common sense.

    I haven’t yet come to an answer to “why do liberals censor?” I’m guessing there is an insecurity at the root of it. A fear that if too many people hear the opposing view, they’ll buy it.

  21. Let me tell you something about Thor, Rutherford. And let’s get something straight – the truth for once. Thor likes to bend reality, splitting atoms with his fabulous, “fictional” mind.

    This is another whining Lib that likes to insult third party, then when I trash his party first party, plays victim. That wasn’t just placed on this thread to garner your sympathy and play on your emotion. Thor has motive in everything, just as Flake did about begging my banishment. Thor is a manipulating, insecure, pompous ass trying to garner sympathy so each of you will come to his rescue. I assume he thinks some of us, me most of all, so dumb we don’t recognize this plea.

    I have no idea what Thor is talking about about personal info, other than he volunteered information about his son several months back not just to me but to the entire board here, and I in return volunteered BIC also shared the same personal family history. If I did that on his own blog, I don’t remember and it is irrelevant. If Thor ever took up the offer to talk to BIC, I do not know. That was done out of courtesy to an obviously emotionally attached stranger and a degree of sympathy for the cause because my neighbor’s child is also autistic. I’ve now entertained a 240lbs man with a six year old’s mind in my driveway for 15 years, doing everything from putting models together to helping learn body work on an old pickup his mom bought him. I’ve talked about that before here.

    I fully admit upon Thor’s dubious entry, I called for Rube Alert. But the exchange pleasant enough. As time wore on, Thor went from passive aggressive polemic to passive aggressive, pedantic prick, invariably proof reading and critiquing my punctuation and spelling as if this an English class. I returned the favor. But the act grew tedious and tiresome. There comes a day when being a passive aggressive punk gets you your passive aggressive ass kicked. Undoubtedly, our resident Charles Dickens apparently not bright enough to understand that.

    As far as this writing I mocked, the first time I read it was today as I perused through his blog. If he asked me to read it previously, I’ll assure you I didn’t. One doesn’t forget something like that – to each their own, but I found it comically bad for someone that had just insulted my own intellect and talent, insinuating his vast superior intellect – intellect that never answers my tough questions, I might add. Just returning the favor. The only thing I’d viewed previously of Thor Dickens were some links Mr. Dickens has posted about various material he’s written to be published that didn’t interest me – and to be honest, I can’t recall if they were his links from his blog, or links he directed me to.

    My suggestion to Thor would to find someone else to harass. I generally skip right on by his posts, because I find him poorly written and researched, a bore and one trick pony that reads from the daily cue cards of leftydom. There is no original thought. One Poolman is enough for me and about one is all I’ll tolerate. I’m not a good candidate for Thor’s act, if that’s his gig.

    A few weeks back, somebody else here unnamed played the same game and got the same treatment after a period of tolerance. If Thor believes I have singled him out for harsh treatment, I’m sure she can verify he’s not the first because she’s the female version of Thor. You’d do a lot better confronting me straight up like you do and throwing a roundhouse than nipping at my heels like some parasite, as I said I don’t suffer fools easily.

    Out of courtesy to you, I’ll stop. But if this bullshit continues and Thor can’t leave well enough alone, it’s going to get a whole lot more personal. I have absolutely no hesitation to rip some manipulating whiny brat’s heart out, if necessary, to bring it to an abrupt halt.

  22. Thor while I understand your desire to ignore Tex I probably will call you in for reinforcement from time to time. I think you argue policy a bit better than I do.

    I can’t apologize for Tex because he is who he is. I can and will apologize that my blog was the forum from which he mocked your story. For that I am truly sorry.

  23. Tex, your comment and mine passed each other through the ether. What you’ve said is nothing new. When anyone offers you a perceived affront you pull out the big guns. I’ve grown used to it.

    As I told Thor … it’s his prerogative to ignore you.

    P.S. Taking Thor out of the equation for a bit, isn’t the essence of story telling trying to get you into the shoes of the story teller. “Fog” was about bridging a communication gap with an autistic child. I’d think the theme alone would be moving regardless of the metaphors employed.

    P.P.S. I am the LAST person to critique creative writing because as I have said in the past, I have no imagination and no ability to describe things in a colorful or potent way. That’s why I stick to nonfiction writing.

  24. >

    When anyone offers you a perceived affront you pull out the big guns. I’ve grown used to it.

    Oh well. I’ve returned the favor with your ever present and always predictable cheap shots at my faith, as if somehow that’s damaging me. A faith supposedly the ever truthful Thor supposedly ever truthfully follows as he lends his undying support to America’s largest abortion provider amongst a thousand other conflicts of political interest.

    Amazing how you lefties can square away the incongruities – but never with much explanation.

  25. “I can’t apologize for Tex because he is who he is. I can and will apologize that my blog was the forum from which he mocked your story. For that I am truly sorry.”

    Absolutely no apology necessary. I just wanted to make it clear. Tex can mock all he wants, I’m just not going to waste my time with someone who lies, won’t admit he lies and can’t even remember his lies. (Although with over 4000 comments last year, I don’t really think it would be possible for him to remember them all). I’ll stop now. If I’m not going to read his comments, it’s only fair not to pick on him.

    On a lighter note, I didn’t know “Hurt” was a cover. That’s a cool song but damn, I don’t think it’s going to help your dark mood. 🙂 For a lighter touch, check out Loretta Lynn and the White Stripes dude in Portland, OR. Very cool. I’m too tired to go searching for it. Maybe tomorrow.

  26. Thor –

    We in cyberspace continue to learn – and forget – and re-learn – a lesson that the real world figured out centuries ago: when it gets personal, all meaningful exchange stops. That is precisely why, for example, nothing useful ever gets done in Congress.

    I can’t dredge it up right now, but I once ran across a couple of paragraphs on, I believe, WF Buckley, Jr. It was from I think the son of an acquaintance of Buckley. He said that these two gentlemen (his father and WFB) would go at it hammer-and-tong during the workday, then have dinner at each other’s homes that evening, debating all the while dinner was being prepared, but always maintaining a genuine affection for each other that never let the argument cross over into the personal.

    I don’t think I can ever find it again, but I was really impressed by that article, and it has given me a lot of pause as I try to navigate the vicious waters of the “blogosphere” – for the most part just a place of giant shouting matches, where nobody ever grows or learns anything.

    …but enough about the-blog-which-shall-not-be-named. LOL

  27. couple o’ things from previous blog post:

    “I know you’re arguing viability and I know that is one way to skin the cat, but the computer analogy doesn’t capture the essence that pro-life people see in a fertilized egg.”

    OK – all those things, PLUS a schematic telling you how to wire it all. There – fixed it, as they say.

    No, I’m not arguing viability. That is a moving goal line and you don’t want to get into that. Viable when? Thirty years ago? Forty from now? By then you will be able to go from zygote to baby outside the mom’s body most likely.

    I’m saying that no matter what you do, it is a judgment call, so you have to realize that you must pick a point on this little analog function called gestation and define it as your go/no-go point, realizing that it is arbitrary to some degree. The rigid pro-lifers and the rigid pro-choicers don’t like that kind of thing; there’s no black-or-white in it. No bright line, and that disturbs them, but that is IMHO the only way to settle it.

    re: big-legged woman. I’m probably coming in way at the end of the line here, but “I don’t know but I been told, a big-legged woman ain’t got no soul,” is a line out of Black Dog, by Led Zeppelin. Commonly mis-interpreted as “been-laid woman.” I can personally vouch for a particularly large amount of soul in both.

  28. Rutherford:

    Essence? What essence? I must have missed the “essence” lecture in my two embryology classes. Do you think it is in here somewhere?

  29. Thanks for the good words, thor. I don’t have much internet courage. I treat people as I would if we were standing face to face, and I like what I know of you. I also like what I know of Tex for different reasons. My wife’s side of the family teases that I take after her grandmother who when people were arguing said “why don’t we have some tea?” They accuse me of making tea when things get nasty.

    When I was in the service my superiors sometimes assigned me with people no one else could get along with.

    I make rules like everyone else, and value loyalty. .

    Rutherford, one has to think strategically. Yes, Lech was petty, and pettiness is also one of Obama’s failings. He is the president of the United States and should be above such traits. Obama’s missile decision had already angered the Poles, and his “Polish death camps’ made it worse.

    That he honored a communistic-socialist labor organizer and denied Lech’s slot because it was “too political” further angered the Poles and reinforced the perception that Obama holds grudges.

    The best strategy would have been to honor Lech because he deserves it. It would have purchased a little good will, and as my father-in law used to say, “returning good for evil is the Christian thing to do. More importantly, it confuses the H..l out of them.”

    You might be right about the insecurity. I also hinted at it in my Linkin Park comments.

    IF you want to see an Icelandic blond and her drum look up Eivor-Trolabundin.

  30. @31 OMG Rutherford you are so close to the epiphany that will surely find Sandi and your other prog friends running for the border.
    I feel compelled to help you.

    I haven’t yet come to an answer to “why do liberals censor?” I’m guessing there is an insecurity at the root of it. A fear that if too many people hear the opposing view, they’ll buy it.

    Instead of buy it go with accept or see through the liberal BS.
    Liberal thought falls in2 two camps.
    The first is the sometimes noble well thought out stuff that may or may not be good for folks and America.This element is usually fairly complex and amongst the masses poorly understood. This is where misunderstanding results in apathy or rejection without effort. It is also an area where the opposing views K.I.S.S. and usually win the day.
    The second is the blatantly anti-America stuff which triggers an instinctual reflex against the prattle. These things don’t need support from others but often get it anyway.
    An appreciation of these two schools I think really help to answer why liberals embrace (selective) censorship,support things like AttackWatch ® and have wet dreams over the Fairness Doctrine.
    Work through it R,I’m there for ya!

  31. A couple of things Noah … first … I’m not nearly as troubled by libs wanting equal time as I am by their wanting to silence the opposition. The more communication the better.

    Now that I have had my head screwed on straight by Tex with his post on leftist vs Liberal, and I can see you are a hard core leftist, just shy of Obama, I am not surprised at this point of view, but I do take issue with it.

    Why are there so few Liberal talk shows compared to Conservative? What determines if a show is on the air? Well business does. Does it have the listener support to warrant having a show. No one but the people who listen to radio decided what shows are on the air, just as what we see on TV. Why should then the government step in and dictate to the market that it must carry programs that will loose the money? This is not the role of the government nor should it be. I am curious as to why you think it is?

    I also don’t buy the “common sense” thing. I think libs have loads of common sense.

    Why don’t you and what don’t you buy into? That Conservative values are common sense?

    I haven’t yet come to an answer to “why do liberals censor?” I’m guessing there is an insecurity at the root of it. A fear that if too many people hear the opposing view, they’ll buy it.

    Libs censor that which they cannot make an argument against, because it is contrary to their agenda and they cannot argue against it logically, so they instead try to suppress it.

  32. I think the reason liberals try to censor conservatives is because they believe that their precious fee fees are more important than those of conservatives. They believe that the attacks on each other are balanced for one thing. Bah. The truth is they aren’t even close. They see through their self-serving filters the photochopped dicks in the mouths of conservative women, the articles in fairly mainstream magazines like Playboy that list the 10 conservative women they would most like to hate-f#ck, their Bill Maher and Matt Tabbai brand of sexism and their talent at painting disturbing images of the sexual degradation of conservative women. So they measure that against Rush Limbaugh calling some activist faux victim a slut and consider Rush a big meany pants.

    They deny the damage they cause and then cry and moan and demand action in retaliation when someone calls one of them a name or even present a different viewpoint without the name calling. They think that we don”t feel pain at their hands nearly as profoundly as they feel when the tables are even nudged back them. They”re fond of putting their sins on conservatives (like their war on women) so it seems more balanced. They aren’t satisfied with the main stream media – they want to own the airwaves entirely.

    They can dish it out but they can’t take it. And they want to continue to dish it out amd stop conservatives from saying boo about it

    That’d be my guess.

  33. I think the first process is to decide if your premise that liberals are more prone to censorship is correct. I think it is, unfortunately.

    I see it in a slightly different light. Trying to follow my boy Bill of Occam, I wonder if this is just ONE manifestation of a very general characteristic that defines liberals, and I believe it is.

    To my eye the defining characteristic of Left-ism is its inability to think deeply – to see beyond the first level to the unintended consequences of actions that seem – at first blush – to be reasonable. A good example would be the welfare system that – in trying to take care of little bastard children – is shot through with perverse incentives that create more misery than they solve by encouraging young girls to have children out of wedlock.

    So it is with censorship: when someone says something that outrages their delicate sensibilities, instead of saying, well, I don’t like that, but censoring would be far more damaging (unintended consequences), they say, well I don’t like that and you shouldn’t be able to say it. Their thought processes tend to stop on the first level. This very low-level thinking is what drives me batty about that lori person at Fat Grannies, for example. It’s like talking to a second-grader.

    This same tendency can be seen in their attempts to make all outcomes equal by giving prizes to all the kids in class rather than just the ones who really excel. They are focused on the superficial – does little Johnny have self-esteem (first tier thinking) – rather than the more important – has little Johnny actually learned anything (second tier, deeper thinking)?

    I didn’t mean to over-analyze here. I think your post is extremely thought-provoking, though…

  34. Alfie , I agree with your description of the two types of liberals. Its also the reason our blog host encourages Poolman to keep posting his lies. It’s like anti Amrrican porn for a liberal. Most know it’s not real life. But damn those 3 bisexual nurses with huge titties are hot.

  35. I think there is a 3rd camp of liberals Alphie omits. The union/bureaucrat/technocrat liberal. These people certainly are not the Noam Chomsky hate American “imperialism” types nor the well meaning bleeding heart. Everything is a dog fight for a bigger slice of pizza for this 3rd type. Sure, they argue that their victory is good for America (and sometimes it is). But, at the end of the day, its all about a pay check.

  36. Now that I have had my head screwed on straight by Tex

    😆 THAT cracked me up. Straight? That implies a semi-centrist approach. Trust me, if Tex did the screwing, it is definitely rightie-tightie with a serious cross-threading to boot.

    Straight? 😆 Thanks, for the morning chuckle.

  37. @dead rabbit I might have thought that group to be part of the first but your articulation makes a clear case that they are indeed a separate entity.
    @ rutherford,there you go three schools.

  38. It’s kind of interesting to watch how teenagers gain a political awereness. The more intelligent kids see themselves as liberal. I’m not just talking about kids with family that pass this down to them. Many seem to arrive their on their own. Its an immature conclusion made by teenagers advanced enough to at least see the world with themselves not the center.

    The worst are the kids who parrot hard core conservative parents. They are correct of couse 😉 But they have no idea how they arrived there and seem to struggle with critical thinking.

    Very generalized observations, of course.

  39. dead rabbit, thanks for reminding us of the third kind of liberal. “Dr Zivago” made a role for one of them. ChelneKof (SP) was as well meaning a revolutionary as any Bolsevic, and he wanted to make the world a better place. However, he evolved into a technocratic bureaucrat who rode a train across the country to execute people for technical reasons until he himself was executed.

    I like Muffy’s and Pfessor’s comments too.

    I think we have gone from “I am right and you are wrong” to “I am right and you are evil.”

    That was funny on one level, Poolman, but the imagery made me think EEEEWWW!

  40. I rooted for Castro during the Revolution, but my mother insisted he was a communist who would create a lot of mischief. That supports rabbit’s point.

  41. Rabbit has to call my posts lies to justify his massive influence over young minds. He’s even accused me of making them up. That’s okay. Justify away. The truth doesn’t change just because enough folks will that it would. Time is on my side with this one, no matter how many editors the state employs.

    Noam Chomsky is a tool of the state. Though critical of our international interventions, he holds to the official 9/11 and JFK narratives, stating it matters not IF they aren’t true. He refuses to consider evidence to the contrary when confronted with it. Says it’s stupid. (Not unlike the response of many here)

    His basic theory of syntax, the one he has perched his entire career upon, doesn’t seem to hold water either. I’ve seen it picked apart entirely by other educated and lesser known individuals.

    Now, I do find much of what he says to be profound and true, but like Brzezinski, I wouldn’t trust him beyond an arm’s length.

    As for Carlin being one of the elite, Rutherford’s claim, I have to disagree. He may have been financially well off (I’m not certain), but he never “went along” with their rules and requirements. He was a thorn in their flesh. Ask any of the gatekeepers here. He became angrier and angrier with the establishment the older he got. He offered no apology for his rants and never recanted.

    I would add Bill Hicks to the list of truth-telling comedians.

  42. Poolman, I would love to see a syllabus that sums up what you think should be taught in American history.

  43. Ha ha rabbit!!

    I was smart. I remembered to keep my mouth shut and not look at the sky when it was raining. Otherwise, I might have drowned.

    I liked George Carlin too.

  44. I don’t know what they still teach in American History class, rabbit. Much of what I was taught has proved mostly lies. I think including the now unclassified truths should be a big part.

    The FOIA docs are available on the internet. Most “truthers” offer these evidences for free. It does take time and work to find and compile. If your history book you are teaching from says one thing and the official document says another, I think it important to know and teach the real story.

    Vietnam is probably one of the best examples of this. Now you can document that entire conflict from a “real” perspective based on official evidences.

  45. History. Hmm.

    Could being on “the right side of history” drive some of the desire to suppress the voice of the opposition? Shape the record before the truth even gets out?

    One of my first comments here was to question Nancy Pelosi’s (I might have lumped the President in with her too) motivation behind how the HCR bill was being debated, drafted, and “passed.” I felt it might well take some work to erase the uncomfortable truth about the rhetoric coming from their side of the aisle nearly 50 years ago when another opportunity to be on the right side of history passed them by. What a perfect time to drown out the ghosts of racism past –

    “We will resist to the bitter end any measure or any movement which would have a tendency to bring about social equality and intermingling and amalgamation of the races in our (Southern) states.” – Richard Russell (D-GA)

    Senator Strom Thurmond (D-SC): “This so-called Civil Rights Proposals, which the President has sent to Capitol Hill for enactment into law, are unconstitutional, unnecessary, unwise and extend beyond the realm of reason. This is the worst civil-rights package ever presented to the Congress and is reminiscent of the Reconstruction proposals and actions of the radical Republican Congress.”

    To my knowledge the only member of Congress to actually belong to the KKK (Byrd, right?), personally filibustered for 14 hours against Rutherford’s rights. Nearly 50 years later we have the commenters at Fat Grannies skeptical that R is even black. What, too articulate, Biden? Undetectable “negro dialect,” Reid? Too clean???” (Biden again)

    Clean. And they did scrub it all clean too over at Fat Grannies. No more going back and pulling references to what really happened. Just the history that they want you to remember.

    LOL Rutherford, before you tell me how poolman-like I sound to you, I’d like to suggest to you that no ones has a patent on such ideas. They are not original, and they do not originate with him. 🙂

    So to poolman, I’ll pose a question that is right up your alley. Wouldn’t the main stream media have a lot to do with what we call “history in the making?” How accurate an account would you say we’re recording these days with all these internets?

    Footnote: Some of the above comment from pasted from Wikipedia (the racist quotes), but not Wikiality (the latter which makes the claim that M&H are “two elderly hippies, who have somehow been able to familiarize themselves with the technologies of their grandchildren: the internets.

  46. Muffy, the MSM WOULD have a lot to do with “history in the making”. For every story line they put out, there are others now that contradict the account. Years ago it was hard to find alternate views.

    Take the OBL assassination, for example. There have already been numerous “official” accounts. In addition there are opposing accounts, some from the very neighbors that were there.

    So, as it has been said before and proves true, the victors write the history. If we swallow it all as fact, we are good obedient players and pose no threat to the greater agenda.

  47. “Could being on “the right side of history” drive some of the desire to suppress the voice of the opposition? Shape the record before the truth even gets out?”

    I believe it is a simple fear of being proved wrong. when you know you’re right, it’s far more titillating to engage to opposing viewpoint, if for no other reason than to validate your own. It’s one of the reasons that so many liberal media pundits(cough, cough MSNBC, Bubbles Berhns) are loathe to have political adversaries as guests on their programs. There’s safety in groupthink/populism, albeit an easily recognized distortion.

  48. I’ve got say that I also love the lib strategy of “if you’re a conservative and don’t speak out against the words of others, you adopt them” being only selectively applied.

  49. You know, the whole denouncing thing is a mystery to me. I hear it and basically make the same gesture I do when someone whips out in traffic right in front of me and then immediately slows down to turn.


    There’s no working with it. There’s no way to establish a framework, to set the rules, or to ever not be hypocritical.

    The only thing I can come up with for myself is to choose my battles wisely and never hit send when I should be reflecting. Even that’s a hard row to hoe. I’m supposed to answer for every other idiot too?

    Denounce what Rush said now that got somebody’s panties in a wad. Sure, but first I’d have to listen to him, don’t ya think?

    And what if I listened to him and thought, “girl pay for your own orgasm? What, it isn’t worth it?

    You just can’t win that denouncing game.

  50. I agree,we’re only responsible for ourselves.

    “There’s no working with it. There’s no way to establish a framework, to set the rules, or to ever not be hyprocritical… You just can’t win that denouncing game.”

    The closest you can come to winning is to set realistic rules and goals. Whether it is on a grade school playground, in an office or on line.

    You can’t change an opinion, but you can inflict pain or arouse hatred if you have a good memory and put together pieces of a person’s being as he/she unwittingly reveals them. It doesn’t take more than an off hand comment at its best.

    Otherwise a person disposed to bigotry and bullying carries flaws which over time, can become his/hers undoing. Letting that person become the instrument of your revenge is the closest to winning “the denouncing game” that you can get.

    As we know, it ts harder to do on line because so little of the other is known, but it can be done. A sometime ally on the other blog defended me sometimes, but she told me privately she resented how I had hurt the feelings of several of her friends. She named names.

    The extreme happened on a moderated blog. A woman and her allies tried to force me off. The battle lasted for over a year, but she over played her hand and alienated too many people. She was part of the group who were banned. She “returned” as her mother, or maybe it really was her mother. It was never clear. I mocked and scorned her as did my allies, and whomever it was left for good. .

    Apparently the blog carried an unhealthy importance to her. She was already a basket case, but weeks after she left the blog, she dived off a cliff and into the Pacific Ocean.

    I don’t think I had anything to do with her suicide, but it makes me try to remember to “never send when I should be reflecting” I forget too often.

  51. Rutherford, you are liberal, but you are not an ideological bigot. You are a good guy. What happened to you?

  52. Essence? What essence? I must have missed the “essence” lecture in my two embryology classes. Do you think it is in here somewhere?

    The notion I’m trying to get across PF is that as innocuous and “useless” as that dividing cell might look in that picture, it contains all the ingredients that go into being a human. So it really is dismissive to tell the pro-life person “it’s just a clump of cells”.

    You are right. The only way to handle the debate is to “draw a line” somewhere. But we’re still left with where to draw that line. There are two absolute answers. It is NEVER right to terminate and it is ALWAYS right to terminate. Those are the easy answers with a full extreme ideology behind them. Getting to a “line” somewhere in between is the challenge.

  53. “The notion I’m trying to get across PF is that as innocuous and “useless” as that dividing cell might look in that picture, it contains all the ingredients that go into being a human. So it really is dismissive to tell the pro-life person “it’s just a clump of cells”.”

    That is exactly what it is – a clump of cells. Yes, it has all the instructions on board to make a human, just like every nucleated cell in your entire body, Rutherford, so no soap there. We already know how to do parthenogenesis in some animals; humans won’t be far behind, so at some point every cell in your body will have exactly the same potential.

    As for the second point, no, it does not have all the ingredients that go into being a human. It has the blueprint and the instructions for collecting the ingredients and assembling them. That does not give it “essence” or a “soul.” It is a marvelous machine, but that’s all it is. As the machine collects pieces and assembles them according to the blueprint, it slowly, slowly becomes a human baby. Very cool, very slick, but holy? I think not. It’s what every living thing on the planet does every minute of every day.

  54. The worst are the kids who parrot hard core conservative parents. They are correct of couse 😉 But they have no idea how they arrived there and seem to struggle with critical thinking.

    Doesn’t change a damn bit as they get older. 🙂

  55. “when it gets personal, all meaningful exchange stops. That is precisely why, for example, nothing useful ever gets done in Congress.” – PF

    I agree, to a point, but being a glass half full guy, I think getting personal can cut to the positive as well as the negative. If these people actually spent a little more time together, just them, not their staffs surrounding them, not hanging with king makers chasing money, but just them, they might be inclined to find common ground.

    I’ve heard that after Reagan was shot, Tip O. visited him in the hospital and it fundamentally changed the way they dealt with each other.

  56. It’s one of the reasons that so many liberal media pundits(cough, cough MSNBC, Bubbles Berhns) are loathe to have political adversaries as guests on their programs. There’s safety in groupthink/populism, albeit an easily recognized distortion.

    Please list for me all the liberals getting time on Fox News.

  57. James, thank you for your words too.

    My Grandmother did the same thing, only it was “soda” she would offer with her wonderful laugh. Must be a Scandinavian thing. 🙂

  58. Apparently the blog carried an unhealthy importance to her. She was already a basket case, but weeks after she left the blog, she dived off a cliff and into the Pacific Ocean.

    Sometimes it is so hard to discern truth from fiction in the blogosphere. A couple of years ago I stumbled upon a blog by a real crackpot. According to the blog (again fact or fiction?) he had lost everything … his wife, his job, etc etc. He blamed the government. He then very strongly suggested he was going to do something violent to express his anger and that it didn’t matter because he wouldn’t live to see the consequences.

    I, fool that I am, actually exchanged a comment or two with him, taking him seriously and trying to talk him “off the ledge”. His bottom line was to tell me to “f*ck off”. I really contemplated calling the police or the FBI and pointing them to the blog but the possibility of it being pure Internet BS stopped me.

    I have no idea what transpired subsequently. I don’t even remember the name of his blog … and I’m glad I don’t. Tex should remember this because I commented about it in a thread long ago.

  59. Well Thor, your point is very well taken. These Congress critters go back home all the time now. They spend as little time in DC as they can. I’ve read some of them watch C-SPAN from their office to know what is going on and when they HAVE to go down to the floor. Their staffs do much of the work. There is no longer any camaraderie among them. It is no wonder we have gridlock on a regular basis.

  60. “It’s kind of interesting to watch how teenagers gain a political awereness. The more intelligent kids see themselves as liberal.” R

    Rabbit, have you taught in places with different demographics? I ask because where I grew up it was fairly conservative. It was rural, sort of the region beyond the suburbs. When I go back there now its crawling with 30,000 Microsoft and Costco people and fairly liberal, still the same schools, although more of them. I bet those kids are fairly liberal, but man, the kids my daughter hangs with here are fairly conservative. IMO, it’s all about the parents, left or right.

  61. One general comment before I go to bed.

    I see my post has given license to all sorts of critiques of the liberal, my favorite being that he is too stupid and simple minded to analyze with any depth and consider the consequences of his actions. To which I say politely balderdash.

    Insecurity is my first suspicion but I will have to give the matter more thought. Another thing that occurs to me is that the liberal thought pattern involves having “another” enforce rules and regulations on the liberal’s behalf. So when something offensive appears in conservative media., the liberal looks to an outside judge/jury/executioner (such as a commercial sponsor) to punish the perpetrator. Whereas when a conservative is offended he might be more likely to take matters into his own hands with a direct retort (stand your ground? 🙂 )

  62. Rabbit you identified heartbeat as the arbiter for when we’re dealing with a human. My question to PF or Tex is … when does brain activity, however primitive, start to manifest in the fetus? Is it at the same time as the heart function or earlier or later?

    Rabbit, I’d like to submit if there is any brain activity prior to heartbeat, you might want to move your goal post.

  63. “Why are there so few Liberal talk shows compared to Conservative? What determines if a show is on the air? Well business does.” – N

    Not always. The most interesting local station we have is a non-profit run on volunteers and donations. You never know what you’ll hear, from the all-lesbian music hour to a migrant worker union show in Spanish.

    Just because a show is popular doesn’t guarantee it has worthwhile content. I bet I probably don’t watch any of the current top ten most popular shows on TV. Big Bang maybe. Are they in the top 10 R?

  64. “Heartbeat would be my compromise.” – R

    There is a point, around two weeks I believe, when the “blob” can no longer split into twins and survive. A blob that has the potential to be more than one human is just a blob, a very special blob, but just a blob. That would be where I would draw the line.

  65. I went back to my old embryo text to look some stuff up. Pulsation in cells destined to form the heart can be detected as early as about 15 days after conception. But here’s where the argument begins to fall down: at this point there is no discernable heart, no blood vessels per se, no blood, so is there a heartbeat?

    Incidentally, there is at that point nothing that can be called brain tissue. As for the brain argument, you have to get it in your mind that the whole thing is a PROCESS; by carefully teasing out certain cells, looking for certain chemical markers, etc, they can say very early, “Some of the cells in this area is destined to become neural tissue.” But there is no POINT where there is a “functioning brain;” neural cells slowly form, begin to develop connections, pass a few pulses around. What about thought? Doesn’t happen in utero per se most likely; the brain is a complex organ and continues to mature until the child is several years old. This is probably why you can’t remember anything much before age five or six. Self-awareness is a becoming, not a “now we have a functioning brain.” Hell, certain blogs, filled with adults, have NOBODY with a functioning brain, as far as I can tell.

    What about the “when the fetus can feel pain” argument? Well, when is that? In medicine, it is not a trivial question to ask, what is pain? Withdrawal from noxious stimuli? As we all know, pain is a very subjective thing and has a psychological component. Doesn’t it take self-awareness to say one feels pain? When is the fetus self-aware? If you are under anesthesia your body will react to pain with raised blood pressure and other signs, but since you are not self-aware at that point and don’t remember it, did you feel pain?

    To my mind all these questions are a distraction and just lead down the slippery slope to perdition. I believe you have to step back and say, shit we are getting nowhere – we need to make a distinction somehow.

    It’s like Mason said to Dixon; you have to draw the line somewhere and not fool yourself into thinking that it is not for the most part arbitrary. To my eye, those who penned Roe v. Wade did their homework – way back when. I haven’t seen any solution proposed that comes even close to that one we already have, but its a compromise – and the zealots on both sides are not interested in compromising – so on and on we go.

    apologies for the length…

  66. Thanks for the song, thor. I have book marked it. Yes, it is a shame creators of such beautiful music would have been burned to death. I wouldn’t be surprised if ice age people weren’t singing like that ten or fifteen thousand years ago.

    I”m glad you like it Rutherford. Its nice my wife’s paternal grand mother wasn’t the only one. Northern Europeans like the British and Scandinavians do tend to be phegmatic. My wife’s grandmother was German and could still speak the language, but she could have come from any of any part of northern Europe.

    I also think Reagan and Tip O’Neil also played golf together when it was not considered a photo op.

    We raised chickens when I was a boy. They were my brother’s and my responsibility, and we kept the money we earned. I experimented with our chickens and trained some to fly to and sit on my head.

    One experiment was to break open a gestating egg each day. When I first saw the heart beat it was centered in a half dollar sized circle of blood vessels etc. A tiny blob was the future chicken, and it was barely the size of the heart. As days passed, the blog became recognizable as a chicken while the circle of blood vessels expanded. At last, the chicken sucked everything inside. Long before that happened, the baby chicken with huge eyes appeared distressed and even tried to peep.

    A chicken taken from the egg three days before due date could survive though it didn’t eat for a day or two.

    You can’t extrapolate a chicken to a human, but from what I saw, a potential chicken did not become a recognizable chicken until days after the heart began to beat.

    In retrospect, what I did was horrible and cruel, but I was only 13, and I had an inquiring mind.

    I agree parents can sometimes pass down their political views as they give their children their national and family culture, though it doesn’t take with everyone. The term “red diaper babies” described some of the sixties anti war protesters who’s parents were communists or sympathiizers during the Depression. Michael Savage has cited Sean Penn as an example.

  67. The tea maker was my wife’s paternal grandmother. Her maternal grandmother was from Sweden. Poolman might like this since he has some Italian ancestry . Northern Europeans don’t necessarily feel comfortable with close human contact.

    An Italian woman said she learned she could herd Swedes at parties. If she invaded their “personal space” they would retreat a bit. She could subtly move in as the Swede retreated until she had moved him/her to the other side of the room.

    We discussed identity proof for voters earlier. Massachusettes Democratic convention requires photo ID for participants. They must be more special than we regular voters.

  68. “Please list for me all the liberals getting time on Fox News.”

    I’ll see if I can find a list since you won’t Google i for yourself.

    Suffice it to say, the times that have paused on the yammering FOX evening shows, I nearly always saw a liberal on for debate. By contrast, almost neversaw a conservative on MSNBC.

    Why are you denying the difference now? In the past you’ve acknowledged it (and if you deny that I won’t go looking for it — I’ll rely on the others’ memories).

  69. Sorry. I can;t find a list and I’m not willing to spend the time trying to search it show by show.

    If you’re saying Fox doesn’t have many liberal guests all I can say is “hogwash.” The format of its opinion/evening shows is “debate” requiring opposing viewpoints to present. I am a little surprised that you challenge the premise since I find it obvious.

  70. Yes, master.

    I assume you mean on the payroll.

    Sally Kohn. Geraldo, Juan Williams, Bob Beckel, Dr. Susan Estrich, Shepard Smith, Kirsten Powers, Alan Colmes (or have you already disowned him?)…umm….OK that’s all I can come up with off the top of my head.

    Now you go (list the conservative commentors on the MSNBC payroll. You can stop when you’ve listed more than 8 and I’ll be ready for round two.

    I hate defending Fox News. Typical attempt to shame…ahhhh….

  71. PS…you asked for a list of libbies “getting time” on Fox News. Far too many to list, so I limited it to paid on-air personalities. Fair enough?

  72. I can’t wait to get to Jehmu Greene – on the Fox payroll. She’s the class act that called Tucker Carlson a “boy-tying white boy” on air for questioning Elizabeth Warren’s qualifications.

    Of course if she were fired or asked not to come back…well, you know.

  73. Thor, without taking the time to check the Nielsen site, I’m pretty sure Big Bang is in the top 10 … definitely top 20.

    Your point is well taken … popular does not equal quality.

  74. “So it really is dismissive to tell the pro-life person “it’s just a clump of cells”.

    I think it’s terribly convenient.

    Remember we’re talking compromise not arguing “facts.”

    Roe v Wade is a joke if you’re seriously selling compromise as the goal. Ever actually read it? Of course, everybody has. RIght?

    Rabbit found his compromise line. If I understand Thor correctly, his line is two weeks. Mine is under six weeks unless the life (not the convenience, conscience, or fee fees) of the mother is at risk. My line moves, but I’m willing to settle any time. Special circumstances exceptions for rape, statutory rape, incest, and diagnosed mental deficiencies (like an IQ under 70, but not “bi-polar) on an individual basis.

    Good luck finding information on fetal development that’s not driven by an agenda, Rutherford. I have big trouble with six weeks and that’s accepting the big-legged women who’ve sobered up enough to remember some basic facts of life.

    Big trouble with six weeks. But enjoy yourself, Clair.

    PS…FWIW I think PP split their org into separate entities – one for abortion and sex-selection and everything they do when no one is looking – and one for all the rest, including free contraception on a financial needs basis.

  75. Yeah, almost worse then the baby slaughter is the happy go lucky acceptance on thr left for abortions of convenience, of which literally almost all of them are. My brother talked a woman in to getting an abortion for season tickets.

  76. “Bottom line, to me conservatives tend to fight fire with fire while liberals fight fire with “get him fired.”- R

    I’ll have to agree with your statement, Rutherford. It seems anytime you put the two groups together the end result is a “fire”. The internet has become the fuel that can instantly ignite whereas pre-internet by the time the two groups rubbed two sticks together to get a spark sometimes the reason for the fire was no longer important or worse case scenario they had to cooperate in order to cook a meal or get warm.

    Rather than reflecting on the good ole days when debating was considered an art, we need to start reflecting on how to interact using technology and as both James and Muffy said, learning when to hit the send button.

  77. I’ve noticed a pattern. When leftist journalists lament the failure of Obama, the president turns into this sad, lead actor from an indie film in which the protagonist can’t fit in because of his querky uniqueness. WTF is wrong with you people?? Dude is the POTUS. Not some failed artist looking for love in Manhattan! Barf!

  78. RAJI, He hates the world. I’m not sure I’d call him a liberal, although he voted for Obama. He hates rich people and, being the narcissist that he is, just can’t come to terms with why he is not. He is a math genious who still bar fights who can write computer programs in the time 10 people can. But he also tells his bosses to fuck off once every year. He goes from living in the ghetto to living in downtown San Diego or Seattle several times in a half a decade. A piece of work.

  79. My brother was banned from burger king when we were kids because he some how broke the code on one of their scratch off games causing a situation where our entire neighborhood could eat for free.

    I once saw him fly off the roof of a taco bell delivering a real life flying elbow to an arab. He went on to pulverize the dude, oblivious that his chin hit the pavement. He also put two nazi skin heads in the hospital. He’s 6’4 but is very coordinated. He is one of those guys who punches people in the face. I can’t count how many times I’ve watched situations unfold where I’m thinking this person has no idea he’s about to feel a punch he will remember for a life time.

    He’s also a total ladies man. He still brags about getting laid. Riddled with herpies and incapable of a lasting relationship, he isn’t very happy. Oh yeah, he paints and sells these abstract paintings for hundreds of dollars. Fucking hilerious.

  80. I have an evolving notion of Obama. I did feel at first his failures were due to obstructionists within the system. This inline with rabbit’s statement in 100. But a look to his cabinet and subsequent policies reveals an entirely different scenerio.

    Since becoming POTUS, the advance of the attack on individual freedom has been ramped up. He’s expanded and increased military actions, military justice, added more teeth to the Patriot Act, upped the cyber wars and attack on internet freedoms (free speech), and has surrendered more control to global governance.

    Now that it’s proved we were behind the Stuxnet attacks. This will ramp up the cyber war and eventually shut down the freedom we have in the internet. Of course, in the name of national security.

    I think now he was a modern day Trojan horse.

  81. Rabbit I just figured out who you read like to me. It’s been on the tip of my tongue for months.

    Holden Caulfield

  82. Well I mean Salinger of course. But Catcher in the Rye is semi-autobiographical, isn’t it?

    Sorry if – I hope I didn’t make you self-conscious. Probably might have wanted to reflect a minute longer.

  83. Thor
    82 was a complete non-point. We are talking about people who run radio stations as a business being forced by the government to carry unprofitable Liberal talk shows. You were completely off the point.

  84. On the topic of radio stations isn’t it a shame that the internet and assorted other factors are killing it?
    The Boston area is soon to lose a staple of independent alternative rock FM goodness.(101.7 WFNX)
    The content isn’t part of the deal just the freq. but Clear Channel has pretty much assured that the metro Boston area only hears content approved by 3-4 corporate entities. Thats not good no matter how you slice it and is the threat we have without the Fairness Doctrine and its allied thinking involved.

  85. Rabbit, it sounds like if your brother was better disciplined, he could rule the world. Channeling that for a greater good would be awesome. I hope he gets his footing soon.

    Discipline is a choice, like anything else we are confronted with, rebel or do the right thing, even as we learn it. We all make mistakes, it is how we are designed. How we recover from those mistakes can develop self-discipline and wisdom, if we choose.

    I saw this video this morning and it really describes well how one has to pull oneself out of the greater mess and determine to be self-reliant. This guy is a libertarian from your neck of the woods, so you might have heard of him. His story is pretty profound and makes a mockery of the welfare state.

  86. Ha ha, Muffy. The funny I was just thinking how I write on a 7th grade level. I swear part of it is I no longer use a computer. Expressing myself on the phone feels like one of those dreams where you can’t run or scream.

  87. Alfie(the Leftist)
    Supporting American detention, government controlled radio. You my friend need to move to China. Utopia has already been built for you, why wait to try and make it here?

  88. Sorry. I can;t find a list

    LOL why am I not surprised. Since I watch MSNBC and you don’t, here’s the skinny:

    Hardball almost always has conservative guests who Chris ties to tear apart. In fact, of all the MSNBC shows, Hardball regularly features conservative voices.

    Crazy Larry periodically invites opposing views onto the show so he can attack them.

    Rachel Maddow claims (you can choose to believe it or not) that most conservatives will not accept her invitation to appear. I have seen conservatives on the show rarely.

    I don’t watch Ed Schulz or Rev Al so I can’t speak for them. Your buddy Chris Hayes often has a conservative voice represented on Up. Morning Joe is hosted by a conservative (call Scarborough a RINO all you want, he’s a conservative). Name me one Fox show hosted by a liberal. You can’t.

    With that said, the MSNBC shows obviously skew liberal and when conservative voices are present they are more often than not in a hostile environment.

    Since hotels and hospitals offer Fox and don’t offer MSNBC, I’ve watched bits of Fox when forced to. 🙂 With the exception of “The Five” who has a buffoon liberal on the panel, I know of no primetime Fox show that regularly welcomes liberals.

  89. Muffy I beg to differ on some of your examples. Geraldo is a moderate at best. (Truth is Geraldo practices the politics of Geraldo.) Juan Williams is either a moderate or a piss poor rep for liberals. Shepard Smith (who I think is tops) has the guts to criticize his own network and his side … that doesn’t make him a liberal. It makes him an honest conservative. If you’ve got documentation that Smith self-identifies as a lib, I’ll give you that one.

  90. We don’t have cable. However, the network Fox News Sunday has many liberal guests and panel members.

    Holden Caufield was a good one, Muffy.

    I agree with some of 103, Poolman. Obama could have turned some of his legislative failures into partial victories if he had compromised. LBJ and Ike were good persuaders. Had Obama possessed their skills his record would have improved. For example, a budget ceiling was near agreement. Boener had agreed to some higher taxes, but Obama ruined the deal with more demands.

    He also cared less for reducing the unemployment rate than for burnishing his legacy.

    Some of the product Obama was trying to sell was bad, and obstructionists were doing their job to stop the legislation. Too many of these legislative battles were not for the good of the country but for the good of the party. Deadlock in that case is inevitable and the contest becomes a battle to the electorial death. .

  91. I agree about Jerry Rivers (Geraldo) except I think he is left of moderate. Juan Williams is a liberal with occasional moderate to conservative flashes.

    Muffy’s and my opinions are as accurate as yours, because non of us has defined what liberal or conservative mean to us.

  92. “Since I watch MSNBC and you don’t, here’s the skinny.”

    You asked me about Fox, not MSNBC, Knucklehead.

    And I do watch MSNBC — we’ve had this discussion before. I know how it goes. What you’ve said doesn’t even begin to address what I’ve said.

    Now you asked for a list. Couldn’t find one — there hundreds and hundreds of liberal guests I suspect. Prime time I’ll wager has liberal guests on every night (O’Reilly and Hannity and Van Sustern). In fact, which of the “prime time” shows do you contend don’t have liberal guests on regularly?

    I’ll give you Morning Joe – but he was a replacement for Imus. More often than not the show has multiple liberal guests and no conservatives at all.

    Maddow doesn’t have conservatives and your so-called reason is b.s. Never once did I see one on Olbermann. There may have been one but I don’t recall seeing one ever on Shultz. O’Donnell just yells at the guests –that’s not discourse I am referring to as edifying is it is to the small intellect. I don’t know about the Muppet, Prissy Chrissie Hayes.

    In any event, list or no list, my point still pertains. Show me where I am wrong. Of course you do digest a huge amount of MSNBC. Try an evening on Fox – which I don’t watch. But when I’ve hit on it, there’s always been a liberal guest on in the debate of a point. Hell, didn’t O’Reilly go on “The View?”

  93. “I know of no primetime Fox show that regularly welcomes liberals.”

    You may not but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist. They do.

    You’ve raised objections to Geraldo (hosts a show), Williams (often guest hosts), Shep (news anchor), and Beckel (co-host). And Shep is not liberal just an honest conservative? LOL. Fine, we’ll take him.

    You negated half my list (still leaving 5 including Jehmu) and provided one name on yours – one which is at the very least equally as debatable as the ones you objected to on my list.

    Uncle! I can’t breathe! Lemme up!

    In the interests of productivity, Rutherford, I’m comfortable in letting your list and my list speak for themselves. At least mine had names on it. 🙂

  94. poolman –

    I have over and over told the libs that they needed to take the Tea Party seriously. Did they listen? Noooooooo…..The same thing with everyone and Ron Paul. There is a very strong libertarian current running through this society and it scares hell out of libs and conservatives alike – and should. A great number of the libertarians are young people, just coming of age. Ignore them at peril.

  95. You and I both, Poolman. Another thing the liberals had wrong was their equating oil with the war in Iraq. I think our motives were more complex than that, but according to Hot Air, Iraqi oil exports have risen 20% this year, and they will partly offset the oil embargo against Iran.

    Hugh Hewitt wrote ” Iraqi oil is easing the worldwide price, providing leverage in negotiations over Iran over the latter’s nuclear program, and is likely to match Saudi Arabia’s output in a few years.”

    In other words, Iraqi oil has helped make the gasoline we buy a little less expensive.

    I can’t say “I told you so”, because I opposed the war until the invasion, but Dick Cheney certainly can.

    Meanwhile, George Soros gives the Euro about three weeks unless something drastic is done. The whole edifice may crash down. One side effect may be setting the retirement age at 80.

    LIberals, socialists and their allies are having a bad year. Its too bad the rest of us have to share.

  96. We have speculated here about when or if we would plunge off a cliff. The date has been sometime in the future.

    The characters of
    “On the Beach” faced an ever worse calamity in their future. Finally, one of the main characters told his friend “Its here now. It is only a matter of individual resistance before people get sick.” Maybe it is also true of individual European nations.

  97. I dont understand what thebeef is between fox and msnbc. Seems to me they just have a different format. One choose to have weak Conservatives on or to set them up in an attempt to make a point, the other chooses to have Libs at a difference pace. Not sure what the big deal is other than they dont mean your expectations so you fault them for it?

  98. The purpose behind the discussion was to establish whether there is an equal accounting of tit and tat. The tits say the tats have more equal representation, whereas the tats never learned math… or averages… or equality… or squat, really. But they have learned how to project… and divert… and derail… and debase.

    All things being equal, rules be damned, scorekeepers always claim victory… or victim.

  99. “Sorry, substitute conservative and liberal masquerading as tit and tat or tat and tit. Go team!”

    Yeah, yeah we get it. . . we get it.

    Everything’s a wasted effort, the fix is in, it’s all meaningless, everyone’s a lemming, everybody’s point is valid, nobody’s point is valid, ignorance is bliss, the unexamined life is not worth living, shit rolls downhill, another day another donut, figures lie and liars figure, I’d rather have a bottle in front of me . . .

  100. Right. Let’s pretend, just for a moment, it DOES matter.

    What’s the score?
    Who’s winning?
    How do we know?
    How can we tell?
    What’s the goal?

    And while we’re playing the game, who benefits?

  101. And while we’re playing the game, who benefits?

    I haven’t got a clue what game it is you think I’m playing. I was asked for a “list” by R (who doesn’t seem to recognize that my comments are consistent with his thesis and reflexively seeks to disprove them because they’re not flattering).

    The game you’re paying is “look for an opportunity to pontificate” a/k/a “beat the bishop.”

  102. “82 was a complete non-point. We are talking about people who run radio stations as a business being forced by the government to carry unprofitable Liberal talk shows.” Nagic

    I wasn’t really trying to make a point (have at it guys and gals 😉 ). Not a political point, anyway.

    McGlauglin Group is awesome. It’s on NPR. I’m not so sure how profitable that is. Juan got fired from that network.

    Use whatever yardstick you want Noah, I’m just saying that when a person’s livelihood is on the line, they are more likely to rein it in. These people on this local non-profit have nothing to lose. It makes for some interesting access into uncommon music, philosophy, politics.

    If you listen to a station with an all right-wing or left-wing format, what you hear in the first hour is pretty much what you’ll hear every hour the rest of the day. Puke. I guess that’s why you limit your show to one hour, huh R? 🙂

  103. I haven’t got a clue what game it is you think I’m playing. I was asked for a “list” by R

    The tit for tat game. The “list” of tits compared to those of tats, so as the determine whether the tits or the tats are at an advantage. All things being supposedly equal and a call for fairness being the underlying premise. I don’t see the point of it. No one has first bothered to adequately define conservative or liberal. It really isn’t black and white, as you infer. Often players switch sides, so it seems somewhat moot. You folks can’t even agree where Geraldo Rivera fits in.

    But if we’re just interested in scoring points…

  104. ” …groups are helping Tea Party chapters start in England”

    Just a little ironic, huh James. 🙂

    BTW, the scenes of the Faroe Islands in that Eivor video are amazing. I wonder if you or Rabbit ever visited there in your “North Atlantic” days. Looks like one for the bucket list, unless those are “one week a year Chamber of Commerce pictures” and the place is actually a frozen hell hole 51 weeks a year.

  105. He hates the world. I’m not sure I’d call him a liberal, although he voted for Obama.

    Rabbit, your brother sounds a bit like a guy who used to work for me. Sadly, I had to fire him. Brilliant dude but nonconformist to the hilt. I tried to get him a job in the research division where he would have fit right in. Came real close and then he violated business conduct guidelines in a way I just couldn’t ignore. I feel bad about it to this day … only business decision that literally made me cry the night before I walked him out the door.

  106. I think now he was a modern day Trojan horse.

    Nonsense. Obama’s term can be separated into three parts, domestic, war on terror, and more general foreign affairs. On the domestic front his hands were tied because the blue dogs ruined the majority he had in the Senate, and then along came Scott Brown. The filibuster has paralyzed the legislative branch and badly hurt Obama’s ability to get anything done. So Poolman, obstructionist behavior has played a role.

    On foreign affairs in general he probably has a mixed record.

    On the war on terror he is hardly a Trojan horse. He said during the campaign that he would kill a high value terrorist with or without the cooperation of the harboring country. While he opposed Iraq, he said without ambiguity that he would pursue more war in Afghanistan.

    Liberals are a bit surprised and saddened at how he has embraced some of the more shady Bush era tactics but I don’t think that makes him a Trojan horse. War reporter Jeremy Scahill has said that Obama has “out-Cheneyed Cheney”. Scary.

  107. If Greece leaves, they become the new Albania and bank runs ruin France and most of Europe. If they stay, Germany has to do what it has sworn it would never do again, print. If Germany leaves, it becomes a bastard state with no trade partners except with evil Russia. If Spain leaves, they grow closer to South America and actually export enough to survive. They are impossible to bail out. Greece could actually be bailed out. Its a shitty situation, but what is the least worst? Greece stays. Spain leaves. Hardworking Germans get screwed. But, this is the era when hard working people get screwed. The question is how will these angry Germans respond?

    There you have it. The Rabbit’s prediction completly lifted frpm somebody else.

  108. Since the topic of radio stations being “forced” to carry liberal talk shows has come up, I have a question for the class. What do you think about the equal time FCC regulations that demand, for example, that after the State of the Union, a station must carry the opposing party’s response? This equal time rule extends to other things too. Any objections?

  109. Alfie(the Leftist)

    LOL Oh good heavens. I haven’t gotten through all the comments yet so it’s possible Alfie has already delivered the cyber ass whuppin. Noah … I’m telling you … back off. Alfie is NO leftist. He is certainly not a leftist just because you insist on being a drama queen in your debate with him. The interesting thing about my experience with Alfie is he gives a good deal of rope before he kicks ass. In this particular argument you’re bordering on Elric territory and if memory serves, Alfie kicked Elric’s ass.

  110. Gold is money. That will be the end game, folks. What’s that? Missed the boat. No worries. The run on silver will be delayed. After everyone realizes gold is money, as it has been since the ancient Lydians, it will be too expensive for you working stiffs. That’s when all you normal joes snatch up silver. And the Rabbit becomes Boss Hogg. So I guess that’s really the end game. Rabbit becomes Boss Hog. Good night, shemps.

  111. LBJ and Ike were good persuaders.

    James you’ve hit on a major Obama flaw. Because of his inexperience with Washington, he didn’t know how to play the game. LBJ was a master at it. He could intimidate congressmen without breaking a sweat. Obama lacks the ability it seems to influence the law makers. His opponents neither fear nor respect him.

  112. Never once did I see one on Olbermann.

    I will 100% grant you that and it was his most obvious glaring failing. I watched “Countdown” regularly and the echo chamber aspect of it did become annoying.

  113. R, I hope he is. In fact I’m assuming he is. But we don’t find out until we do another blood test tommorow.

  114. Dammit, Rabbit I think you’re probably the last one on this board who’s having any babies. I wish I could’ve recommended this movie to you a few weeks ago before Leo arrived just to f*ck with your mind. “We Need to Talk About Kevin”. My wife and I watched it last night. Spooky movie about a “bad seed”. Watching this kid screw with his mother over the course of his life is just wild. You keep wanting the mother to beat the crap out of the kid but except for one incident, she never raises a hand to him.

    The consequences are dire!

  115. I guess that’s why you limit your show to one hour, huh R? 🙂

    LOL I marvel at these shows that go on for two or three hours. IMHO, can’t be done without callers and my show seldom gets callers.

    But you’re right … here in Chicagoland, we have a progressive talk radio channel and the tone and content is pretty consistent throughout the day. (And overly snarky I might add.)

  116. “But we don’t find out until we do another blood test tomorrow.” Rabbit

    Damn, poor little pin-cushion, but I bet he kicks ass on that blood test, be on a normal routine before you know it. Sleep. Cry. Eat. Sleep again.

    There’s only two groups of people that get to live that well. Babies and Senators. ;).

    Good luck Rabbit. Good night all.

  117. On the domestic front his hands were tied because the blue dogs ruined the majority he had in the Senate, and then along came Scott Brown.

    🙄 Gawd, you rubes from the Left have an excuse for everything. You can’t admit failure because you’re so terribly insecure, personally vested, and gullible. You’re mired in failure as we ‘speak’. You’re whole damn world is falling apart even if you probably don’t even know it, and your model across the globe is months from going under. Every shot you fired either went astray, or boomeranged back and put another hole in your head. You didn’t blow it – you got just what you wanted and it failed spectacularly. George Soros isn’t your friend – he’s your worst nightmare.

    Sorry “R”. Unlike that insufferable bore Thor and the rest of these hoodwinked NPR buffoons, I like you. But you’re a hopeless political junkie and fan. You had a date with the pretty girl in 2008 that everybody you ran with loved, and you discovered she was a manipulative bitch that used you like a toothbrush to dispose of you in the trash can when finished. Now you look at her, and though you still find her pretty, you know she’s stupid and rotten to the core. Why don’t you drop her and stay away from her?

    Why don’t you free yourself, Rutherford? People a whole lot smarter were taken in by this fraud and his Chicago henchmen, who are now at each other’s throats. You were doomed to failure from the start, because your idea of utopia opposed to the reality of what motivates the best in us. All of us. The rest of us stood in astonishment and gasped four years ago. We saw through it. You’re too nice a guy for me to continue to rub your nose in it. Admit you were a feel good dreamer that has this child like inspiration of a Disney movie and Obama’s song was music to your ears? You were plenty smart enough then know Obama was making promises he couldn’t keep and worse, still is. Obama is candy to the morbidly obese. Sooner or later before it kills you, you have to face up that neo liberalism of yours is contrary to the fundamental laws of success, doesn’t work and never has.

    And now that we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Obama hopelessly over his head, the reason Obama has become Dick Cheney x 2 was because necessity dictates he had too. Why is that so hard for you to admit?

    The world is a mean, dirty place. You’re protected by men you do not understand and provided for by jobs you don’t know exist. You flip the light switch and you know not how – just that it does. That the grossly inept Dimocratic party isn’t the party of your daddy and LBJ, who lost the Vietnam War because they were idiots too. No, it’s worse. Those people are long ago gone and set us up with anvils wrapped around our necks like The Great Society. These goons now are standing on the anvil, as the rest of us drag it around. Your party for all intents and purposes made up of self absorbed and stooges, morons who believe in their talents and listen to NPR, never understanding NPR is MSNBC with elevator music. It’s progressive dogma and without taxpayer sustenance, it too would fold like a cheap tent.

    Quit lying to yourself. You’re better than these frauds, because you got a real heart and your kid deserves better. Progressive politics is a pipe dream and a disaster. You’ve made a little progress here recently. Don’t double back and lose your way again.

  118. Tex can mock all he wants, I’m just not going to waste my time with someone who lies, won’t admit he lies and can’t even remember his lies. (Although with over 4000 comments last year, I don’t really think it would be possible for him to remember them all). I’ll stop now. If I’m not going to read his comments, it’s only fair not to pick on him.

    Lies? You mean making fun of you and sending you on a wild goose chase through dozens of posts and thousands of comments to view you seethe? 😐 If I’m a liar, why didn’t you take my bet about what I supposedly said from the last thread? I made an offer and you disappeared. You know why a obvious slug like you didn’t take the bet, but skipped on by? Because I didn’t say it. That makes you a liar in accusation. You don’t think I’d remember making fun of these war stories, then cut the jib with a Private Bradley Manning bomb?

    You can’t even remember what very little traffic is composed of your own blog, from your own family eighteen months previous. Then you make up some shared heart story of which I have no interest. I didn’t even have to work hard to send you into hypoxia. Poolman is easier. Then you came back and ranted some more about nothing related to my challenge, trying to garner sympathy of a sort because I slapped your red, little ass. These guys here have no idea what you’re talking about. And I have no idea what your purpose of this little nibbling indirectly, but I’m now laughing at you.

    You’re feelings got hurt and frankly Thor, you’re a wimp. Reads like a pampered one too, where the family checks on you so you have some interest in this fiction you pen. Would you like me to add a poem with your kin? 🙂 Oh, Rutherford will throw you a bone, and one here will mother you for getting the same treatment you received after beign a gnat. But in the end, it comes down to you and me.

    Act like a man if you’re going to pretend to be one.

    Frankly, I hope you do ignore me. That way, I can spank you and won’t have to hear the crying, whining and gnashing of teeth. You need not announce to the room trying gain sympathy. They ultimately can’t help you.

    You got two choices. Ignore me, or stand up and be counted. You’re a cure for insomnia, besides the basketball.

  119. So Mr. Rutherford. You still think that Mr. Obama not a radical? I can understand you waving me off as political adversary, but can you so easily deny a reformed Marxist that stood next to a dictator and facilitated the process for him? Seems to me, he’s got an advantage over either of us. He lived it.

    Nevertheless, in my other life I was involved in the process of spreading the destructive virus of Marxism disguised as benign economic determinism, and I have a few thoughts about how that veiled virus can be stopped from further infecting the United States. American essayist George Santayana, an immigrant like me, used to say that those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

    When economic determinism lost credibility after the devastating economic crisis in Greece, our Democratic Party began replacing it with “progressivism,” which has became the latest cover name for Marxism.

    I would say this is about as damning an indictment of Obama’s team not of hearsay, but history. And yeah, I do believe it – so you need not ask, “R”.

    The Socialist Mask of Marxism


  120. R, I’m impressed- another good article. You could have added about every time a conservative goes to a college campus how they are shouted out and prevented from commenting- with lib prof approval- but any time someone makes a peep when a lib talks they are escorted from the room.

    I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: if it wasn’t for double standards, liberals would have no standards.

    Personally, I think it is because liberalism cannot make it in the arena of ideas. It’s a niche market with only so many buyers. Need I remind you of Air America? How about something closer to home- Sandi. She doesn’t want to debate because talking points are not debating points. She’s flash in the pan. There is no depth to her on an issue, hence she was not prepared or willing to debate an issue. That’s actually quite typical of a liberal: ignorant, arrogant, petulant and mean.

    You are really a rare bird…

  121. I, for one, want to hear what Thor has to say. Nobody learns anything in an echo chamber, and Thor’s willingness to run against the tide most of the time among this group of hyper-aggressive testosterone-soaked fuckers is commendable, IMHO.

    If it weren’t for him and The Poolman – and, of course, Rutherford – we’d be the biggest circle-jerk on the Web. Kind of like the flip side of Fat Grannies. Hell, that takes all the fun out of it. For my part, have at it, T.

  122. You are really a rare bird…

    I agree with respect to the allowance of allowing an opposing viewpoint. Rutherford is indeed a rare bird in my personal experience.

    It’s a pleasure to follow by Marquess of Queensberry rules and appreciated.

    However, what does it buy us if we thoroughly discuss the issues and still most ultimately reach the wrong conclusion, but time and some loose sense of camaraderie?

    I’m afraid even Rutherford’s gentlemanly approach, while appreciated, is ultimately defeatist in nature if not applied correctly.

    Sorry “R” for the left-handed compliment, as this one not meant the diss. It’s just that while I appreciate your style, nonetheless its just style and not substance if a losing proposition.

    And I am convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt now that Obama and his policies a disaster in the making, and have been for quite some time.

  123. This might be a little close to home…

    The Nutmeg State will be funding the Communist Party.

    Yep, despite massive debt and a mushrooming deficit, Governor Dannel Malloy, with the obedient Democrat legislature in tow, will convene the State Bond Commission on June 4th and push through a $300,000 “grant-in-aid to Progressive Education and Research Associates to finance renovations to the New Haven Peoples Center at 37 Howe Street.” The masquerades of Progressive this and People that aside, 37 Howe Street happens to be the headquarters for the Connecticut Communist Party, run by Joelle Fishman, who also happens to be the regional bureau chief for the infamous Peoples World. Which, yes, also happens to be located at 37 Howe Street.

    So here we have a state that is awash in red ink, consciously increasing its red ink, to directly send taxpayer dollars to a place that publishes Red ink.

    My pal Tom Scott, former state senator and considered by many to be Connecticut’s primo conservative, called to say “Is there anything this Governor is unwilling to spend our money on? We have the highest per-capita debt of any state, we’re the highest taxed state in the nation, and yet Malloy and the Democrats see fit to spend $300,000 to prop up the Communist Party of Connecticut. This is outrageous. And Malloy is a fiscal misfit. We need to turn the heat up on these Democrats to remove this item from the bond commission agenda.”

  124. Nobody learns anything in an echo chamber, and Thor’s willingness to run against the tide most of the time among this group of hyper-aggressive testosterone-soaked fuckers is commendable, IMHO.

    Indeed. And if I led anyone to any other conclusion, you have indeed misunderstood me. I don’t come here for my news which is already read.

    I come here to debate with someone equally as verbose and nasty. 🙂

    Without you libs, Pfesser is indeed right. A rightist echo chamber is equally as boring. The more libs, the merrier. Only problem with that Pfesser, is it puts more pressure on Rutherford to stand deliver in a forum facilitated by WordPress – because this paradigm is a dog with fleas. Get enough people, and Rutherford would be forced to do nothing but provide the daily post.

    He could share in the load, but I haven’t found any leftist willing and able to carry his talent.

  125. Liberals censor (and ban) because their arguments cannot stand up to fact and reason. Amusingly, I got here through a link on a liberal site that banned me!

  126. Thanks for the shout out, thor. That italian woman’s comments reminded me of how we used to herd our cattle. Herding Swedes made me laugh.

    Yes, Tea Parties in England is ironic. It is almost as funny as herding Swedes. My wife has been in Iceland. It is on my bucket list, but after seeing what you saw on the video, the Faroe Islands are now on the list. A couple of YouTube tourist promotion videos make the Faroes look even better.

    I’d like to visit the Outer Hebrides too. Around 1200 a popular term associated with Vikings was (My mother’s family name) Justice. My mother would have been mortified.

    Thanks, too, Poolman. That article does interest me. My first thought was for the poor mothers. Most women endure pain during child birth now. Bigger heads make it worse. My next thought was Senator John Kerry’s face supports the observation of longer faces. his face gets longer as he ages.

    I hope the blood test has good news.

    161 needs a correction. “Babies, Senators” and old people.

    I believe liberals and conservatives behave as they do because the news and entertainment culture favors liberals. Conservatives have to play nice and think through their beliefs because the consequences are greater if they step out of line.

    The lower standard for liberal ideas becomes a matter of religious faith. They don’t have to defend their ideas with precision because the majority of people they know share the same views.When they meet people who can better defend their opinions, those defamers of orthodoxy become a threat and must be stopped lest the contagion spread.

  127. OT: Brain Teaser

    Rearrange the letters to spell out an important part of the human body which is even more useful when erect.


    The two people who wrote SPINE became doctors.

    The rest are all my friends.

  128. Obama lacks the ability it seems to influence the law makers. His opponents neither fear nor respect him.- R

    You nailed it R and that’s exactly why he is not a good POTUS and a second term isn’t going to make it any better.

    “Conservatives have to play nice and think through their beliefs because the consequences are greater if they step out of line.”- James

    Now James, isn’t that going a bit overboard? 😉

  129. every time a conservative goes to a college campus how they are shouted out and prevented from commenting

    Obviously you haven’t followed the Ron Paul campaign much. He’s the true conservative in this race and is packing them in on college campuses across this nation. Do a google search. Beyond capacity and overflowing.

  130. Yes, Ragi it is probably going a bit far, but where is the fun in not doing so once in a while?

    I give you Sarah Palin stating you can see Russia from Alaska and her interpretation of the Midnight Ride of Paul Revere. Both were basically true.

    Joe Biden said Obama’s decision to kill Osama bin Ladin was the gutsiest move in 500 years. President Obama’s teleprompter misfired, and he thanked himself for attending a White House meeting with the prime minister of Israel, I think.

    Some Tea Partiers yelled at Democrats and the press virtually called them terrorists. OWS burned buildings and the press tried to ignore them.

    When I attended my first grad school party, and said I was a veteran, someone said “You don’t belong here you fascist. We’ll get rid of you!” The students were reacting emotionally without thinking. Liberals basically got a free pass from others like them, while the conservatives were scorned because liberals were good people who deserved a pass. Conservatives had questionable values and motives. .

  131. Funny Pfessor! Poolman, I know Ron Paul is packing them in, but which universities does he choose? It is a fact that students in many universities shout down conservatives. That is not to take anything from Ron Paul.

  132. Poolman – I had not considered that, but it’s true, isn’t it? The way conservative speakers are treated on college campuses is probably a much better demonstration of what Rutherford is saying than any other example I can think of. Kudos. Of course the first thing that comes to mind is that these kids are the products of the unionized American secondary “education” system.

    IMHO we are well and truly heading down the pipes. We all know the ultimate fate of socialist systems and the resuts of uncontrolled money-printing. When the system totally collapses of course the trend will reverse, as we run out of “other people’s money,” but how far down will we be then? Will we be so weak that America will never again be a serious international player? God I hope not.

  133. I would say this is about as damning an indictment of Obama’s team not of hearsay, but history.

    Tex it didn’t take more than a couple of paragraphs to see the manipulation going on in your Socialist Mask of Marxism.

    Joelle Fishman, chairman of the Action Commission of the Communist Party USA, strongly endorsed the Democratic Party’s candidate for the White House

    Followed by:

    That new alliance between the Democratic Party and the Communist Party was a first in the history of the United States

    What alliance? If the KKK ends up endorsing Mitt Romney are you going to tell me the GOP now has an alliance with the KKK?

    The sad truth is that stupid people (I don’t mean you Tex) read this stuff and don’t see the subtle logical leaps that are used to skew the reader.

    I may not be a genius but I’m smart enough to know when I’m being manipulated by invalid leaps of logic.

  134. He’s been on campuses all across the nation, James. Maryland to California and Wisconsin to Florida. You conservative-type folks generally claim all colleges and universities are liberal. Are you backing away from that now?

    Of course, Oral Roberts and Liberty U may be exceptions, though liberals generally don’t consider those “serious” schools. I don’t know if he’s visited those. Then there’s the Mormon campuses, which are generally considered conservative.

  135. If it weren’t for him and The Poolman – and, of course, Rutherford – we’d be the biggest circle-jerk on the Web.

    Bravo PF. It’s one of the reasons I defend Poolman to the death (well not quite to the death 🙂 ). I’ve read my share of blogs and Fat Grannies has no monopoly on echo chamber. There are conservative blogs out there too where the circle-jerk is so intense you need a bath upon exiting.

    But I will say this … even among our conservative brethren we have subtle differences of opinion that keep things lively. I really miss Hucking Fypocrites who was a badass fiscal conservative but socially much more moderate. And we have Alfie who is willing to call BS on his “own side” when necessary (hence the debate in the prior thread between Alfie and Noah). Dead Rabbit appears to have no political agenda whatsoever so you never know what zinger will come from him.

    The only way this thing got underway was I was willing to let the place get overrun by “the opposition” and try to fight them off like a hero in a Kung Fu movie. 🙂

  136. This might be a little close to home…

    Gorilla, why do you think I REALLY left Connecticut? I didn’t want to live in that bastion of commies and pinkos. 😉

  137. R, since Poolman and Thor are all you got, you’re getting your ass kicked Grasshopper. 😆

    I think you need the spiritual aid of HP these days.

  138. LOL Gorilla, how was Romney’s speech in your video any less platitudinous and pontificating than anything the POTUS has said.

    I may sound like Poolman, but these elections are increasingly becoming a joke. It’s “my slogan vs your slogan”. When asked for specifics the answer is always “see my web site”.

    Let’s look at Romney’s Day One video. The Keystone pipeline approval may provide jobs eventually but will give no near term relief. Easing the regulatory and tax burden on businesses will not create demand. Finally, he can yell and scream about Obamacare .. it is legislation that, if I’m not mistaken, has to be undone by legislation (or the courts). If the Supremes don’t kill the mandate the legislative process to kill Obamacare will take at least a year. During that year, there will be a focus on all the good we will lose without Obamacare (no pre-existing condition discrimination and coverage under parents policy beyond age 18). Worst case scenario we’ll end up right where we started with loads of people uninsured. The only modern society that doesn’t give a damn about the health of its populace.

    Here’s a nice take on the Day One video:

  139. Conservatives have to play nice

    James, while the consequences for a conservative faux pas may be more dire than that of a liberal, it doesn’t seem to deter the conservative any. They hardly play nice.

  140. James, you struck upon the biggest problem in today’s politics and that is the assignment of motive to the opposition. So long as conservatives say liberals want to destroy the country and liberals say conservatives hate minorities, we aren’t going to get very far.

  141. Poolman, c’mon man. What is the point of blaming drones on the Jews? Are you just trying to throw a grenade into the thread?

    Tell me something, why does Christian convert Brother Nathanael still look like an orthodox Jew?

    Poolman, Nathanael is as crazy as the day is long. Perhaps his dick still smarts from the circumcision? He needs therapy … STAT!

  142. PF, Huck is focusing on his research work and his health. I had a brief email exchange with him a few weeks ago just to make sure he was ok. He’s doing fine but avoiding unnecessary excitement (such as this blog provides 🙂 ).

  143. Tigre, HP would be most welcome but fate took away my ally.

    We haven’t heard from Curator in ages either.

    As for my ass kicking …. I wonder … have any of you been experiencing foot pain lately? I have a very bony ass. 🙂

  144. My ringtone is The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly.

    Because I love Westerns, mister.

    That was the only alone time I had with my dad. Sunday afternoon westerns and monster movies and Sci-Fi stuff. I swear he made me call him “Gort” for the longest time (“The Day The Earth Stood Still”).

  145. Poolman, c’mon man. What is the point of blaming drones on the Jews?

    Maybe because all the top players happen to have that in common. Michael Chertoff ring any bells? Look at our top “defense” security firms and military contractors.

    Brother Nathaniel and I agree on many things. I trust he knows all things Jewish better than I. But, it isn’t all Jews. Just as many oppose these Zionists and their agenda.

    It’s like anyone, Rutherford. We share common ideals, but are not in complete agreement on every topic. The only “person” I am in complete agreement with is one Jesus Christ.

  146. Rutherford, maybe she’s trying to tell you something, loverboy.

    LOL … and the worst part is my default ringtone is a Scandinavian woman saying “Hey Rutherford, pick up.”

    Well at least the ringtone I assigned to my wife is actually her voice saying “Hey Rutherford, it’s Trixie”.

  147. To reflect or to send, that is the question.

    “If it weren’t for him and The Poolman – and, of course, Rutherford – we’d be the biggest circle-jerk on the Web.”

    I’m cool with Thor hanging around. If fact I wish he would, and not just for Rutherford’s sake. But I also wish he’d stop strutting in here like a Halloween gunslinger and challenging Tex to a duel for a comment he made last week. Next thing you know its High Noon up in here.

    It’s all very awkward.

    And speaking of awkward,

    Several of you have chimed in on Thor’s behalf. I said something very low key in Tex’s favor (surprise) before things got entirely too uncomfortable to watch. And all the while you all were rooting for Thor, I’m remembering a comment he made early on in his membership here talking about how he just stopped by to yank a certain someone’s chain. I do believe he mentioned Tex by name, and I do believe we call that trash talking. I thought to myself at the time – this guy reminds me of the hired gun in the Quick and the Dead. “I’z here to kill ya’ anyway.”

    Maybe they could both ratchet it down a notch (or two).

    And FWIW, there’s a reason I suppose (Tigre?) that there are strict rules about allowing past bad acts to get into evidence. They’re highly prejudicial.

    So when Tex’s abusive father and Raji’s abusive husband square off and fight – I feel pain for both of their children.

    So in the end, I don’t know if I believe that this stuff is all politically based. Some of us just don’t get along. It happens.

    (“Send” won. Or lost, depending on how you look at it).

    And I miss ole Huck.

  148. The only “person” I am in complete agreement with is one Jesus Christ.

    Frankly I doubt even that. Surely on your more skeptical or “down” days Poolman, you think some of what Christ said was a load of horse manure. You are way too much the contrarian for me to believe you agree with Christ lock stock and barrel.

  149. “Great brain teaser PF.”

    Is that the type of brain teaser the scientists keep telling us we need to avoid dementia? 😆

  150. You are way too much the contrarian for me to believe you agree with Christ lock stock and barrel.

    100 percent Rutherford. So much so, if I find an area where I am not in agreement, I have to adjust MY theology. That’s why I have so much disdain for those that claim the same relationship but bear no resemblance to the author.

  151. So in the end, I don’t know if I believe that this stuff is all politically based.

    Oh you’re damn right this stuff goes beyond politics. Some of us have been here long enough to let our guard down and share some painful history. If any of us believes that history doesn’t influence our current “style”, we’re fooling ourselves.

    While I agree that some folks just don’t get along, I also think it can run deeper than that. It’s also a matter of folks intentionally or unintentionally pushing each other’s buttons.

    What separates the aggressive persistent commenter from the troll in my opinion is that the former has shown some quality of human being. Some have called Tex a troll. I disagree because I think I know Tex at a certain level. He is definitely very human to me … sometimes all the more so when he goes off on someone.

    I used to get heat about my attitude toward the famous Elric. But my problem with Elric was that he was a robot. I could not discern any human pulse in him. There was nothing for me to relate to. Noah, for all my disagreement with him, has already established himself in a comment or two as a human being who has formed his beliefs from hard experience. So while I can argue with him vociferously, I have a modicum of respect for him because I believe he’s honest about who he is. It took a bit for that to reveal itself. For a minute, I feared I had another Elric on my hands.

    Anyway I’m rambling …. Muffy I tend not to “defend” Tex because I view him as someone not in need of defense. In fact, I think there are times he would resent being defended. 🙂

  152. Muffy @ 203, agreed. But Thor did pick a fight and declared victory all on his own. IMO even though Tex went over the top, Thor ain’t entitled to support or sympathy becuase he wound up with a bloody nose. Time to move on.

  153. muffy –

    I think Tex would be first to admit that he has a unique ability to incite rage reactions whenever he chooses. Been there myself, but in cooler moments everyone realizes it’s a loser’s game to get so incensed. Also delays the damn game while everybody cools down, which is the worst part. There is a (supposed) woman at FG’s who has the same effect on me, but has so little worthwhile to say that I don’t even bother trying to avoid cutting loose on her. Tex et al, IMHO don’t fall in that category, so it’s worth trying to be a bit more reserved to see what they have toi say.

    Hope that made at least a little sense….

    re: brain teasers. Roses are red, violets are blue…


    I have my fave, but I want to see yours. (poem, I mean…)

  154. I miss Huck too. His contributions provided for a more rounded view of things. Though we often did not agree, he did provide intelligent discourse.

    I remember our first conversation where he razzed me for putting up a 7 minute video he claimed too busy to watch. Just give me the gist of it, he retorted.

    Often when I see Mountainview, CA come up on the live feed I hope for him to leave a comment. But then, if these folks (myself included) cause too much consternation and heartache, I suppose it better to choose to ignore rather than get in2 the fray.

  155. Here is another one for you, muffy, and I’ll tell you up front that The Poolman got it right immediately. (No pressure…)

    You are sitting in a canoe in a swimming pool whose water level can be measured to an arbitrary level of precision. You take a quarter out of your pocket and toss it into the pool. Does the water level go up, down or stay the same?

    Is it different for a small block of wood? Why or why not?

    Second one: an aqueduct is built over a roadway, like a bridge. It is large enough to sail a large ship through. When the ship sails across, is there more, less or same weight on the aqueduct support structure?

    (You can’t spell geek without EE.)

  156. Rutherford, your 191 should be put on court house walls.

    Yes conservatives are just as nasty as liberals. They do tend to be more polite when they strike a blow..

    Keystone is a big deal here since it would pass a few miles west of us. The construction would create immediate jobs of debatable number. The multiplier effect would reach to small towns and other businesses.Those jobs would be temporary and most would be gone in a year or two, but that is better than unemployment.

    184 Rutherford–fighting us off like a hero in a Kung Fo movie. Obama and Cheney are distantly related, Winston Churchill had an Indian ancestor. Obama has Irish relatives in Ireland. is it much of a stretch to think you have some Viking genes?. Imagining you in a Viking helmet amuses me. No disrespect intended. i just have a weird mind.

    Poolman, I hope if Romney wins he gives Ron Paul a job in his administration.

    Muffy, I like westerns too, The theme from the Good the Bad and the Ugly would be a good ring tone. Mine is “Bitter Sweet Symphony” by the Verve. Our son picked it because he thought it fit me.

  157. I like pushing Tex’s buttons occasionally, as I’m sure you can tell. His hot buttons are at least well-established and labeled. He reminds me of plenty of my redneck friends I have known over the years. Some even family.

    I guess it could be construed as mean sometimes, but he does seem to enjoy the banter. Occasionally it has gone overboard. But you’re right Rutherford, he can usually defend himself.

    It has been fun to watch him budge from his unyielding positions over time.

  158. Pfessor, Tex is one of the best at what he does, but sometimes, inciting anger is a weapon to discombobulate an enemy with little intelligent discourse intended. It is an end in itself.

  159. Poolman, I gather you’re not much of a TV fan but it’s a shame you didn’t see Penn in action on Celebrity Apprentice. Very interesting dude. Goes out of his way, despite his bombastic personality, not to hurt other’s feelings (being nasty is the life blood of Celebrity Apprentice). When faced with possible persistent confrontations with, for example, Clay Aiken, he tended to withdraw into himself rather than attack.

    He seems to be a man with a huge ego who tries hard to control it.

  160. Hey Tigre, speaking of bloody noses, what’s your legal opinion on Zimmerman being thrown back in the slammer for failure to disclose finances honestly during bail hearing? Trumped up political move or legit legal action? What say you?

  161. James, me as a Viking gives me a chuckle too.

    A bit of trivia about Bittersweet Symphony. It’s opening riff is actually lifted from The Rolling Stones “The Last Time”, just slowed down and made symphonic. Jagger/Richards actually have a song writing credit on that one.

  162. I really watch very little TV, Rutherford. My grand kids watch more than anyone else when they are here. Generally cartoon network or Disney.

    I am always so sickened by the commercial onslaught when I do try to watch anything on TV. The constant barrage is repelling to me. It’s bad enough how commercial Youtube and some internet sites have gotten.

    I do enjoy sitcoms, comedy is my favorite, and will watch reruns of Fraiser, Seinfeld, Simpsons, That 70’s Show, or even Family Guy. American Dad and Southpark sometimes are fun.

    The wife used to watch local news, but now prefers getting that online. The internet is much quicker and controllable. With TV they always tease you to stay through the show’s entirety and absorb all the commercials.

  163. PF,

    Geez first the air conditioning guy wants to use the bathroom I just finished cleaning and now you want me to think. I’m on vacation! (City Slickers).

    1a) wild guess I’m afraid – stays the same? (it’s up when he has it, down when he chucks it, – but it displaces water just the same?)
    1b) um….up. because the wood was bouying him and when he chucked it it floated on top?

    2) can I at least look up aquaduct?

  164. Thanks Rutherford, I like ” The Last Time,” but I never made the connection. I see it now, after playing back both songs in my head.

    Muffy 221 is the best line of the day. You’re good.

  165. Ah Poolman my good man … one word for you TiVo. I have not watched commercials (except by choice) in years. It’s really funny because my daughter does not know life without a TiVo so when we go to a hotel she wants to skip commercials and can’t. I don’t consider myself all THAT old at 50 going on 51 in a couple of weeks but it’s amazing the things my daughter takes for granted like TiVo and a remote control. I remember the days you had to get up off your ass to change the channel. 🙂

  166. What the hell am I doing in a canoe in a swimming pool anyway?

    LOL. Besides throwing your coin overboard? Make a wish…

    Actually, it isn’t too unusual. I’ve seen canoes and kayaks and scuba gear in swimming pools. Those actually fall in what I would call the “normal” category.

  167. muffy – think about Archimedes.

    ET – What the hell is going on in the Zimmerman case, as per Rutherford? It sounds like this judge either has a hard-on for Z or is bending over backward to come across as a hard-ass, knowing that Z is going to get acquitted and wanting to cover himself against the inevitable charges of bias that will come if Zimmerman is found not guilty. It makes no sense to me on a logical basis, but IANAL.

  168. Wait, the water level goes down because Poolman built the pool?

    😆 You are on a roll today. 😆 Or is that “role”? If it’s going down, you’re probably stuck in backwash mode.

  169. “…think about Archimedes.”

    Why yes, that helps. Thank you very much. Egghead.

    I’d like to phone a friend, please, Regis.

  170. Guys, I honestly don’t know about the Zimmerman bond revocation. I haven’t been following it. I must say though that I was aware of the internet fund and its fruits since it was in the media long before the bond hearing. I also don’t get how those funds would be considred usable for bond — I guess becuase they were resources for his living arrangements??

    One of the guys here said there were tape recorded discussions between Zimmerman and his wife where they were speaking in code about whthjer to disclose it. If so, it seems he knew it was wrong.

    All in all though, I worry the Judge has a chubby for Zimmerman because of the scrutiny. He has cooperated fully from what I can tell (didn’t flee, came when called, gave them what they wanted etc.) . I don’t see him as a flight risk.

    I’ll let you know my opinion when I have one. Of that you can rest assured.

  171. muffy – OK – Archimedes. Things that float displace their weight in water. Things that do not, displace their volume in water but appear to weigh less by the weight of the water they displace.

    That make it better or worse?

  172. Yeah, I saw the code. That was pretty clumsy, but if that is his only mistake, he’s probably still OK.

  173. PF, I hadn’t seen much of anything. I am gearing up for trial myself. You may be on to something as to the motivations. But only if the Judge decided in advance he was not going to allow the jury to hear the case. Otherwise I don’t think he cares much about the appearance of it all — it’s on the jury at that point. It would sure suck if this boy was detained until trial for appearances.

  174. I read that liberal think tanks are calling for the Fed to bail out Spain. Anyone here have the balls for an insurection if the Fed bails out Europe wholesale? Motherfuckers deserve to be skull fucked if we do.
    The world is being destroyed by liberalism right in front of very eyes. God do I wish Terminater was real and the future could come back to kick our thieving asses.

  175. I read that liberal think tanks are calling for the Fed to bail out Spain.

    Why don’t we just encourage China to bail out Spain and cut out the middle man?

  176. China is facing its own problems now. Its economy may be on the verge of a slump.

    I have mixed feelings about Spain though I agree with rabbit.. Our high school Spanish teacher is Spanish and she will be here for three more years. i don’t think we should help Spain and northern Europeans are also angry at the improvident South, but I’m glad our friend is in the US right now.

    Yes, Poolman, liberal think tanks do exist.

  177. I’m the only one who cares, but here it is anyway. I discovered Mariska Veres died in 2006. She was the lead singer for the Dutch group Shocking Blue. We watched them perform Venus when we lived in England.

    Mariska was part Hungarian gypsy and part German. She exuded confidence and sex appeal, but she was painfully shy. She said she felt artificial on stage. She never married and owned several cats when she died.

    Mariska sang Venus on her last television performance, and she still sounded pretty good in spite of the terminal cancer.

    Carry on.

  178. I was kidding about the liberal think tanks, James.

    Really the top of the heap for all think tanks, liberal or conservative, and the one who all those take their cues from is the so called Bilderberg group. The very one that just wrapped up their annual meeting in Langley, Virginia.

    The steering committee meets periodically and many of these members and attendees are integral in other groups, but this is THE annual event. See any publicity regarding them on the MSM? Probably not. But the alternate media has kept up.


  179. Thank goodness, rabbit.

    I’m not surprised the MSM doesn’t cover it, Poolman. They are competition.

    Another story most aren’t reporting is the group which is trying to silence mostly conservative bloggers who have written about the criminal-terroristic past of Brett Kimberlin.They have used threats, information stealing and swatting.

  180. Good news, Rabbit. I was pretty confident that would be the result, because I have a great degree of faith in these neonatal units, and Leo’s ailment was one of the most common. The first month of life is seldom simple. In fact, I could say that about the first 18 months.

    As far as Thor, I’ll leave well enough alone since i’m sure that makes some uncomfortable. That is, unless he starts the shit again. Thor is Poolman to me with an interest in one thing I like – college basketball. It’s the same game everytime. Thor bleats the MSNBC talking points. IMO, that is Fat Grannies in spades.

    Maybe I should have been more sensitive to the material at hand as it of a personal nature, but then isn’t all our work personal in nature? I wasn’t kidding when I thought Thor’s “fiction” sucked green donkey dicks. Bad. Real bad.

    And since Thor had made a series of derogatory comments and was obviously looking for a fight, I took a few liberties. But if you really think that was a duel, you’re not sitting in Tex’s room while he types. If laughter is the best medicine, Thor is aspirin for Tex’s headache.

  181. I agree about echo chambers, Pf.

    Muffy, I really don’t want to rehash this, but you brought it up. From what you said, I don’t think you followed the exchange. Here it is, as boiled down as I can. On Mem. weekend Tex called someone out for dissing the troops. I called out his hypocrisy, because he had once dissed my father’s service. He called that “baloney”. When I proved it was indeed true, he went after “Fog”. But, contrary to what ET thinks, my nose was not bloodied, my eyes were opened.

    It was a complete waste of time.

    And so I unilaterally withdrew. But before you go 100% sycophant on me, think about this, Tex apparently “researched” my blog several times, but he never once commented there, where people wander by once or twice a month that actually know a lot about writing and autism. Hell, he might have even met for the first time the guy whose WWII service he compared to Private Bradley Manning. But he chose to bring it back here, to “embarrass” me. Absolutely his right. But can you see how that becomes a complete waste of time for me? I do agree with the other half of what ET said, time to move on.

    BTW, I enjoyed your Archimedes challenge from PF. I’m going with the level going down and the stress on the aqdct being equal.

  182. Pf, I was watching some coverage of the New Mexico fires today and I swear I saw a P-51 making a drop. Seems like an odd use, unless they are called in for highly tactical strikes, like near a crew or something.

  183. Rutherford, one of the things I don’t like discussing with you is more serious subjects that require a degree of expertise. In fact, I don’t really find you a terribly serious man.

    This is where I find your own debating skills almost non existent. You’re great at carrying the message of ancilliary junk (Sarah Palin, Trayvon, Obama fireside chants, defense of Chris Hayes), but when the subject turns to fundamental differences of macroeconomics or debt, you wilt and revert back to you being manipulated, or you don’t like the source, or you emotionally react to the author and not the facts presented.

    Though I provide them for most everyone else too, I generally direct them to you as host. But your response is always the same. Why don’t you try instead of an emotional reaction, to discuss why the facts presented are incorrect? The author knows more about communism and socialism then you’ll ever know. He’s an authority; you’re not. What 75% of us have been saying, someone that actually lived through and even developed, facilitated and oversaw Obama’s approach confirmed what we’ve been saying for the better part of three years. And all you can say is you’ve been manipulated because of his association. What if all Tigre and I said to you was we were being manipulated by Paul Krugman because he works for the New York Times. That’s the essence of your pat answer.

    And I think it is you either can’t deny Obama is closely following failed European monetary policy and fiscal insanity, or you don’t know enough about more complex subjects to recognize as much.

    Obama is going to implode, Rutherford. It’s already in the bag because he has no solutions or answers. Obama might divide and conquer, perhaps even win this election (but I doubt it still). But Obama is never going to solve anything. He will go down as a horrible failure in his first term. And if history an indicator, he’ll go down as worse should he win a second term.

  184. Rabbit, the head of the ECB (Dreyg-something?) as much as said the other day, they weren’t there to cover the asses of politicians.
    IMO, the money has got to come from Germany. If we pay for it, I might even join the tea party. 😉

  185. Muffy, i’ll give you a hint as solving physics problems. Carry examples to the extreme. If you had a bathtub big enough to hold a ship, what would displace more water? The floating ship, or a quarter that sinks? 🙂

  186. I thought I could hear the maniacal laughter, Tex. 🙂 Remember when you were touting the 2010 TP victories as so great? A major ass-kicking? Too bad the victors were so useless in doing any good. Matter of fact, they added to the problem overall. This article gives them a good once over, and this site tends to lean more right than left.

    What the Republican Party has done to fiscal conservatives over the past year and a half has been a betrayal so vast that it is difficult to find words to describe it. Back in 2010, the Tea Party was riding high and a flood of new Republicans was sent to the U.S. House of Representatives in one of the greatest landslides in U.S. political history. On election night 2010, more House seats changed hands than in another other election since 1948. It was the greatest defeat for any sitting president in a midterm election since 1938. After the election, the Democrats were left with fewer House seats than at any other time since 1946. Needless to say, it was an absolutely historic election. The Tea Party completely dominated American politics that night, and they sent the Republican Party a clear message that they wanted government debt to be brought under control. So what has changed since then? Not much.


    Actually, there is a LOT of news out here in cyber-land. I have been consumed today with reading. There is so much information I feel I need to find and store as of late, knowing the numero uno goal of the one percenters is to figure how to shut this free information source down and still allow commerce to function.

    It’s so much like all the futuristic books I read in school.

  187. I read WWII’s poetry. I already said as much about your family’s entries to your feckless blog this morning and on the previous thread too. It was better than your fiction. Perhaps you shouldn’t skip my posts or read more closely. Apparently, you miss much.

    If you don’t want your own words blasted in your face, don’t provide the links to your work. Obviously, you’re really proud of your work.

    Perhaps next time you should submit the old man’s works as substitute for your own in a contest.

  188. Too bad the victors were so useless in doing any good. Matter of fact, they added to the problem overall. This article gives them a good once over, and this site tends to lean more right than left.

    Poolman, there is no need for me to look at your links. First of all, I already know the quality of the source before I look. I’ll look later.

    The night the Tea Party blasted you and Obama, at least one victory was definitely won of inescapable worth.

    It stopped Obama. And that was all it could do.

    But you discounting several more results. It gave the Republican party state majorities they haven’t held since WWII, the largest Republican Congress in what? 60 years? And it put the Republican party within reach of taking the Senate this year.

    None of this is a small feat. I don’t think the Tea Party was good for America. I know it was good for America.

    As to the rest of your article, I already know the Tea Party is still doing good. They got rid of Dick Lugar just a few weeks back and will put a much better candidate in his place. And at least, they’re the only bunch still attempting to address current fiscal insanity – a subject you’re frankly incapable of understanding. No real insult intended, Poolman. But let’s face it. You’re a good standing member of Fat Grannies. You don’t get basic math. And you certainly don’t understand the dangers of debt, the Euro, Communist China, Russia, radical Islam, the reason for the military, etc…

    As to the rest of your post, it remains to be seen. Anything else is sheer speculation at this moment.

    Can I remind everyone you and your pal Thor remain the last defenders of OWS? A bunch of anarchists and losers. What little substance OWS might have had, went out the window when it became apparent the crowd made up of the absolute worst of America, bought and paid for the SEIU and George Soros. I hope they create all kinds of havoc at the Dim convention, circa 1968. That would be poetic justice for a closet leftist like you.

    At sometime Poolman, for you to be taken seriously, you’re going to have to post something of real worth. Simply scanning the net to find articles supporting what you want to believe adds nothing. I don’t mean to be rude, but I find you trivial. 😐

  189. Poolman, out of morbid curiosity, I looked.

    That’s a Ron Paul site. 😆 Do you have anything else.

    P.S. – I did agree with one point. Before the debt downgrade, the Tea Party candidates didn’t hold firm.

    That was indeed a mistake. So I will partially eat my statement about the Tea Party candidates being a disappointment in not being tougher. That’s sounds about right as to the amount of debt added since 2010.

    But that is not the fault of the Tea Party itself.

  190. Not a Ron Paul site, but they tend toward conservative and Dr Paul is the only one on the landscape right now. Many of the commenters do advocate for RP.

    You’re a funny guy, Tex. I don’t know why I keep trying to get you up to speed on things. Maybe I am masochistic. I know you are way more comfortable living in the four walls of fantasy you’ve erected and sites like PJ media enforces. But, so it goes. Nothing is useless, it often just takes vision to see through to the purpose. Except for gnats. I haven’t decided what their use is. If you know, please, please, enlighten me.

    As for what our military stands for, an area you seem to have a distorted take on, this veteran lays it out. This is not unique. Many have been there and come to the very same conclusion. It takes more balls to stand up and oppose injustice, than it does to keep quiet and just follow orders. I think it’s refreshing. And yes, this does validate what I’ve been saying all along. And these folks are starting to pop up everywhere. It’s contagious, I guess.

  191. You’re a funny guy, Tex. I don’t know why I keep trying to get you up to speed on things.

    Some responses write themselves. I don’t know either.

    I can’t travel at your warp speed, Poolman. You blow me like the Enterprise would scorch the Space Shuttle.

    But I understand Thor is open to suggestion and intense critical thinking. The way you two could split atoms in a series of discussions truly would be a thing to behold.

    Have you invited him over to the Fat Grannies Think Tank and introduced him to some of those intellectual giants like Juneau Joe and Aunt Jean?

  192. Tex, most of those TP candidates sold out when they got there. That’s the bottom line. An the real TP is not too thrilled about it. That’s where the RP revolution is headed. There have been/will be many more confrontations before this is done.

    Romney is far from conservative and far from consistent. He also is more secretive even than Obama. That isn’t boding well with the true patriots.

  193. M&H is not the same place it was 3 years ago. It’s time has passed, though the dying will likely be slow. Many want what we had, but there is a time and season for all things, and that one is gone. The latest post is as lame as the last. They don’t have the same flair. I think I have found some reasons, but I’ll keep those cards face down for now. I really don’t spend much time and energy there.

  194. Tex call me “unserious” all you like. I demonstrated quite clearly how your author, expertise be damned, skewed the facts his way to influence the reader. Unilateral (vs bilateral) endorsement does not equal alliance. Your author knows that but he’s looking to score points.

    I caught your boy playing games. Don’t dodge it. Just admit it.

  195. Poolman it’s kind of funny how Tex calls Obama an “abject failure” but fails to acknowledge how his GOP run House since 2010 has been an abject failure.

    Now he thinks a GOP Prez and Senate will change things. Pfffft.

  196. Simply scanning the net to find articles supporting what you want to believe adds nothing.

    Oh please stop … I can’t laugh this hard without abdominal pain!!!

    Tex, when have you EVER posted an article link that didn’t support YOUR view. That’s got to be the most preposterous accusation you’ve ever leveled on this board.

    Poolman’s trivial alright because EVERYONE here regularly posts articles that disprove their theories.

    Tex: “Look guys, here’s another article, I’m wrong again!”
    Tigre: “Damn I just can’t seem to get it right, here’s an article to prove it.”
    Rabbit: “I was so wrong. Obama is great … here’s a link.”

    😆 😆 😆

  197. OK … had father/daughter day for the first time in a long time today. It was the kid’s first official day of summer vacation.

    We went to see “The Pirates: Band of Misfits”, a kid’s movie that was a nice surprise. Just enough funny stuff thrown at the adults to keep things interesting.

    Kid kept clueless Daddy in line. Found the cinema “Daddy, it’s over there.” Found the actual theater: “No Daddy, Theater 2 is this way.”

    Lawdy, I don’t know if I was supervising her or she was supervising me. At least a good time was had by all and my wife got three hours of piece and quiet in the home office. 🙂

  198. Atta boy Leo.

    Hey Captain Buzzkill. I don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about with that he said she said shit and I don’t care. I saw what happened. You sound ridiculous. I mean Village People ridiculous.

    “Obama is going to implode,”

    Nuh uhh. Not according to Sarah Jessica Parker and that Dragon Lady Vogue lady. Why he’s the best President we’ve had in 500 years.

    Hey I’m getting a caravan together to go up north to that Wisconsin place and vote that hater tater out. Who wants to go with me?

  199. “Fat Grannies Think Tank “

    😆 Just got back from the Think Tank. 😆

    Man I didn’t think it could get any worse over there, but they just keep setting new lows.That latest article is really feeble.

    Maximum misandry and tawdry recycled yuk yuks. It’s beyond dull.

    They need to just fall over already.

  200. “BTW, I enjoyed your Archimedes challenge from PF. I’m going with the level going down and the stress on the aqdct being equal.”

    Thor wins the kewpie doll. Can you say why in both cases?

    “Pf, I was watching some coverage of the New Mexico fires today and I swear I saw a P-51 making a drop. Seems like an odd use, unless they are called in for highly tactical strikes, like near a crew or something.”

    A P-51 is so rare nowadays they would never risk one in firefighting, so I doubt that is the bird. It also would have to be modified to the point of basically destroying the airframe; that airplane is designed with low drag in mind, so there is basically no extra room inside to put anything except fuel, a pilot and guns. It’s pretty cozy.

    There is a purpose-built turboprop firefighter whose name escapes me right now. It’s nose is very long and thin just like the P-51 and looks very similar. That may be what you saw.

  201. Yeah, Fat Grannies is really done. The outings tore it for me. In a sad way it reminds me of West Virginia – it has become so unpleasant that those with something on the ball have all bailed, leaving only the dregs and the aged behind. “Attaboy, Margaret!” and “troll!”are now considered the acme of argumentative skill. Disgusting, really disgusting.

  202. Tex made an important point not to be overlooked. The Tea Party did what the moribund Republicans had little will to do. They harnessed the basically conservative-libertarian feelings in this country and won an election. Even more importantly, they won local and regional elections. This let Republicans consolidate local power.Local offices are like a baseball farm team and lay the foundation for national success.

    As Tex wrote, the Tea party stopped the Obama administration. It was the beginning of the end of their juggernaut.The Republicans control only one house.They can only do so much. One achievement was forcing both parties to consider our debt and excessive spending. Democratic intransigence and unwillingness to compromise arguably stopped our first small steps toward fiscal solvency. That wasn’t the Tea Party’s fault.

    I haven’t visited H&M since January. The devolution was well under way at that time. The blog was a closed unit and self perpetuating for a long time.It was a happy place. uaw tradesman was a thorn in their sides, and I tried to be one also. I posted as many times with as long posts as I could to give the appearance of more people. Someone complained that the blog should be named the Helen, Margaret and James blog. Unlike before, there was a disturbance in the force.

    Pfessor, Tex, Craig, Noah, and some others appeared. The combination discombobulated them. They upset the balance and created discord. Most of the core retreated to the kitchen or stopped posting. They complained that we had ruined the site. It had lost that loving feeling of recipies and chit chat.

    Some of the regulars bitterly acknowledged that we dominated the discussion, and Juneau Joe who flooded the site with links wrote that he was doing it because he was the only liberal left. Some later returned, but they complained that it wasn’t the same idealized place they knew.

    Like anything blogs have lifespans and decline in time, but based on what I saw on a couple of other blogs, our little group provided the nudge which sent the H&M blog into a downward spiral. It would have eventually happened without us, but we controlled the timing. In that respect we were H&M’s tea party.

  203. I demonstrated quite clearly how your author, expertise be damned, skewed the facts his way to influence the reader. Unilateral (vs bilateral) endorsement does not equal alliance. Your author knows that but he’s looking to score points.

    I think you’re back to squatting over the mirrow staring at your own rectum if you think you proved anything. Truly, Dawg worthy. You did no such thing.

    Let’s see, whom will I believe? The man that told us Republicans would go the way of the Whigs, Sarah Palin accessory to murder, and Obama a generational talent? Or the highest-ranking official ever to have defected from a former Communist country forewarning what Obama is in the process of doing? Hmmm….decisions, decisions.

    All you did was make up some hypothetical extreme and a really bad oone at that (sorry dude, KKK is Dinmie 🙂 ) and then believe that refuted 30 years of history from a high ranking oficial that lived it. The man took Obama’s agenda point by point, and made historical example.

    Rutherford, Peter Pan isn’t real. Don’t worry about it. Somebody will provide when Obama is gone.

    Rutherford, my old pal. 🙂 I swore I’d be nice. You’re not going to get it anymore than Poolman would. He thinks the Tea Party a failure and OWS a success. You still believe in Obama’s successes.

    I should write a comedy of this place – can you act?

    You’re pretty good with movie reviews, though. How is the weather?

  204. Lori was a big political cheerleader. She gloated at every Democratic success even if it was premature. She posted links showing the evil Scott Walker would fail and lose his office. She also posted a video of a young farmer speaking at a demonstration. I looked him up and had a nice conversation with him. He was earnest, but naive.

    If Walker wins the recall, it would be almost worth the time to rub Lori’s nose in it. I’m not going to waste my time. She will do it to herself.

  205. Sorry, I don’t have my reading glasses – I’m using a little bitty screen this morning on a computer not mine. I think I typed mirror wrong. And that is a guess because the ‘v’ and the ‘r’ still look the same.

    I’ll be honest with you guys and gal. My own comments the last twelve-eighteen months here haven’t been my best either. Jim Dougan not here and the only real lefty I took the least bit serious, took something out of me. I hung around too long, and it is hard to take this discourse seriously now. So I don’t.

    I’m never going to see eye-to-eye with many of you folks, so I just toss the salad, throw a bomb, light the house on fire and walk back to the curb to see who runs out before I start firing mostly blanks because the heart aint’ in it anymore. Poolman, no disrespect intended. But my man, I think you’re one of the weirdest people on earth. Not a bad sort, though. You’re a man of unknown purpose who probably should be treated like my elderly neighbor and socialist that talks to herself at the Koi pond.

    I thought if I took a break, I might recapture semi serious political discourse, add something of value, carry on a meaningful conversation. Some poet like Thor showing up and my absence only multiplied my not taking this place the least bit seriously. I am beginning to treat it like Fat Grannies.

    Rutherford has been too lenient.

    I’ll apologize for that, Mr. Rutherford. If I can’t do better, I’ll leave. Frankly, I checked out along time ago.

  206. Hey Captain Buzzkill. I don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about with that he said she said shit and I don’t care. I saw what happened. You sound ridiculous. I mean Village People ridiculous.

    Muffy, could you now tell us what you REALLY think? 😆

    BTW, I WAS surprised to see Anna Wintour poke her nose into the Obama race. I didn’t think she dabbled in politics.

  207. Tex, I’m not entirely sure why you’re so depressed. I think you’ve been around about 4 years or so and I haven’t noticed much change (for the better or worse) in your posting style. Some of your comments are sufficiently inspired that I’ve urged you to blog on your own. Honestly, as one man who has too much time on his hands to another who has too much time on his hands, blogging wouldn’t be a bad idea for you. You could stretch those brain cells by actually researching topics instead of pulling stuff out of your ass as I do mostly. And you’d have an outlet where you set the standard.

    But I’m not going to let you off the hook about your Communist expert. I don’t like verbal sleight of hand and the quotes I provided to you, copied and pasted verbatim, show that your expert is not interested in an honest discussion.

    Everyone but the most die hard soap opera star knows there is no “alliance” between the Democratic party and the communists. It’s a slur plain and simple. What happened in CT that I think Gorilla posted, is an anomaly.

    As for the KKK, don’t kid yourself. When it comes to race relations, the Democratic and Republican parties swapped places 40 years ago. The KKK has no use for liberals. (In keeping with my comment earlier in the thread, I’m not saying “Republicans don’t care about minorities” but I am saying they don’t support policies that resonate with minorities.)

  208. I can’t wait to see how today’s recall election will get spun. If I were a betting man, I’d put my money on Walker. The dumbass Dem party put a man against him who had already lost to him once. Just how stupid is that?

  209. Tex –

    Man, you have to get some interest in life. We ain’t all that interesting, you know…Consider flying lessons – you can buy a used Cessna 150/152 for about $20K, learn to fly in it and sell it for at least 20K, making your lessons very cheap. These prices will never be like that again. OK is nice and flat; you could have a helluva time. Might bring the old dog out again.

    I consider the Walker case to be a watershed event; if he wins, it signals a turn away from this socialist crap that is killing us; if he loses it means a high likelihood of an Obama victory in November, and at least ten more years of darkness and national decay. Thoughts?

  210. I agree Pfessor, but I have my own feelings about finding interest in life. I will never again ride in a small private plane unless I am already in a casket.

    Yes, this is a watershed election. Liberal Democrats and labor unions have revealed what they tried to hide about themselves, and Walker’s policies have worked.

    Lest we pay too much attention to Walker, the Lieutenant governor, four Republican and one Democrat legislator are also being recalled. If the Democrats win a Republican seat they gain the Senate majority and will cripple Walker’s agenda.

  211. James – riding in a casket.

    The fellow I bought my plane from told me that he had started his commercial career by flying bodies for funeral homes.

    His first flight he was a little nervous. It was a proverbial dark and stormy night. They had taken out the passenger seat and the body was in a bag along the floor from front to back, right beside him.

    Nobody had mentioned to him that, as the plane ascends and the outside pressure drops, the gases in the bowel will expand. He said that right in the middle of some turbulence, his passenger broke serious wind. Dorse told me that if he could have jumped out of the plane he would have. Scared hell out of him; he had to complete the flight wondering if the guy was dead or not. He decided to not open the bag to see. LOL….

  212. Muffy @ 269. Whatever. It’s done.

    But I must thank you. I feel I have now gained greater insight into how come the Middle East conflict never gets solved. 😉

  213. Pf, thanks for the clarification on the P 51.

    As for the challenge, I envisioned something microscopic but very heavy sitting in the boat, pushing it down to its gunwales, pushing the water up in the pool. Then I pictured the same speck hitting the pool, essentially lifting the boat without any volume of it’s own to offset the drop in water level. On the aqdct, you said something that floats displaces its weight so the boat simply replaced the equal amount of water weight. Same stress. Probably not the most elegant solution, but in the mind of Thor, anything is possible. 😉

    See you guys later.

  214. PF, I am very unsure about what a Walker win/loss says about Obama’s chances. I do not believe that a Walker loss does all that much good for Obama. After Friday’s jobs report, you should see the liberal pundits running for the exits … castigating Obama for negative campaigning .. urging him to promise a better future with concrete ideas.

    The funny thing about the lib media, they don’t like betting on a losing horse. If this latest number is the start of a downward trend watch the coverage of Obama become more critical.

    As for a Walker win, it will be a major smack-down of the unions and a clear indication that at least some of the populace is rejecting populism.

  215. PF … great story about the dead farting. I’ve heard about that happening in funeral homes. There is some poetry in that. We can’t control our bowels when we’re born and we still can’t control them in the grave. 🙂

  216. thor –

    Sure – when the quarter is in the boat, it displaces its weight; when in the water it displaces its own volume. The question is, which volume is more.

    Since the quarter does not float, its density must be more than water’s, which is to say, a quarter in the boat displaces a volume of water larger than its own volume. In the water, you have taken it out of the boat (water level goes down) but added it to the water (volume goes up, but less than it went down). Cool. good answer.

    On the aqueduct, the boat would tend to raise the water level by displacing water. However since water seeks its own level, any displaced water simply runs forward or backward off the aqueduct, so the weight on the aqueduct is unchanged.

  217. R @ 289-

    Yep, that’s what comes of doing drugs when you are young. Your kids are born naked, with no teeth, can’t walk, can’t talk and shit themselves all the time.

  218. @dead rabbit first and foremost congrats on Leo. Now your sleepless nights are focused on the feed me change me cycle instead of health concerns.
    Also you can apparently add oracle to your cv as you pretty much nailed my political classification earlier.

    @R not to get too deep into it but don’t you think the Dems are really put near the plantation boss mentality regards black America? Even a smidge?

    Walker victory probably can’t power into November thus effecting the general election. A Walker victory though could be/will be fantastic news for states and even cities and towns as we all collective edge nearer to fiscal doom per pension liabilities and civil service strangleholds.

  219. And way earlier…
    Fairness Doctrine= AGAINST
    Equal time for single events like SOTU= FOR

    My beef with radio is that monopoly is not in the publics best interest. It is better to have silent frequencies than to have 2-3 entities control the entire FM band,plus billboards,plus event promotions & locations all while playing the same tired playlist that gives you 3 Gaga,2 Beyonce,2 Rihanna and 4 Katie Perry songs/hr.
    Monopoly shouldn’t be confused with successful capitalism and entrepreneurism.

  220. That was funny Pfessor. You should be writing these stories so others can read them when you aren’t able to tell them.

    My father stood guard over a body lying in state at a neighbor’s house. The mortician had a problem and couldn’t get the body the next day. My father loaded the man into his Model T car and put his body in the passenger seat beside him. People who saw my father with a stiff were shocked.

    It happened in the 1920’s and someone mentioned the “prank” at a high school graduation party several weeks ago. Your story is much better.

    Rutherford, the Democrats are hoping a Walker victory if it happens, won’t have much effect on the election. Now that the tide has turned against them, they hope no one will notice.

    A victory will have an adverse effect on Obama’s campaign. The most important will be the emotional effect the failure has on Obama’s supporters. They will be dispirited and mourn the wasted money which could have been used for other candidates.

    Walker’s success, assuming he can control the Senate, will give other potential governors the will to follow his path.

    Republicans will be jubilant and read more into the victory than it deserves.

    If Walker loses, of course, the opposite will happen. That is why I think the Wisconsin election is likely to determine the outcome of a close election. Its just a symbol, but emotions attached to it are strong.

  221. Just had a guilty moment. My daughter who is on summer vacation brought one of her friends into my office to introduce me. She then told her friend “My Daddy has a radio show” as they exited and the friend said “oh really?” very excited.

    Poor kid doesn’t understand it’s the Internet and any Tom’s hairy dick can have the same show if they want to. I’ll have to talk to her later. 😦

  222. Now that I think about it, it’s sort of amusing.

    He came and went at the same time…


    He was so stupid, he didn’t know if he was coming or going.
    He was going…

  223. Three weeks. I can’t wait.

    I don’t get how the comment relates to the story. (I get your second comment though.)

    PF did you notice that the threesome pictured in the Daily News must have involved a one legged man? (Hint, count the feet.) 🙂

  224. Three weeks. I can’t wait.
    I don’t get how the comment relates to the story. (I get your second comment though.)

    It is a medical malpractice suit predicated on the fact that the doctor did not tell the thirtysomething patient to not fuck himself to death between the time he first saw him and was able to get a stress test done – what, a week later? Yeah, yeah, he had hypertension – join the club.

  225. Didn’t Walker outspend the opponent multiple times? I think I read that somewhere. If he does win I’d pin it primarily on that. It seems to be the major factor in “choosing” our leaders.

  226. Gorilla called into my show this afternoon and of course sang Walker’s praises (lowered unemployment, etc etc).

    Poolman I really don’t know what to think. I still say a win for Walker today shows a growing intolerance for unions among the masses, something I would never have predicted.

  227. Update to 295 … when I told my wife I planned to give my daughter a reality check later today, she told me “leave it alone. Let her admire her Daddy for something.”

    I ‘spose she’s right. Hell, I sure ain’t gonna get admiration for all the wealth I bring into the family. 😐

  228. Rutherford, unions are both good and bad. They started out for a good purpose, but as with anything that amasses power, became corrupted. It’s really too bad. My experience with unions is primarily from stagehand work, but I have come in contact with others in my construction work.

    Unyielding stupidity and lack of productivity runs rampant within them. There is no balance. Nowadays corporations have become less worker friendly, and expect more work for less pay. Unions provide less work for more pay. It’s a lose/lose proposition.

    Overall working conditions in America suck right now. Big time. I am so grateful to have my own business and work for myself. I think only lawyers and bankers are doing very well in this economic climate..

  229. Poolman, I don’t know the final spending tally. I think something like $41 million dollars has bankrolled the campaigns–the most ever for Wisconsin. The actual number is probably wrong, but it supports the concept.

    The Democrats have spent plenty of money too, and they have brought union members from out of state to organize the vote. According to a link on Drudge a caller to a talk radio show said he was part of a convoy of four buses headed from Michigan to Wisconsin to vote. The labor leaders on board didn’t know voting in Wisconsin was illegal. I don’t know if the story is true or not, but I am sure Democratic allies are stealing votes when they can.

    The CBO stated that its worst case scenario broke their computer program. A debt of 250 % of the GNP by 2035 is beyond the computer’s programing. Their chart shows the US economy in a long recession starting in the early 2020’s until it stops.

    I think the Wisconsin election will influence the general election in a small way. Unless we shake up the system, we are doomed as the CBO projects. For that reason, I don’t care how much the Walker campaign spent. As long as it is legal and it lets him win, twice what they spent is fine with me.

    I will believe Walker keeps his job after the final recount vote is tallied.

  230. Rutherford, don’t sell yourself short. From what I know of you, I’d be proud to be your kid. You are not normal, and I mean it in a good way. Of course, there is a lot about you we don’t know, and I’m not discounting the possibility that you have hidden Grandma in your freezer, but aside from that, you seem to bring more to the family than money can buy.

    I agree about the unions, Poolman.

    “Oh you don’t get me
    I’m part of the union
    till the day I die
    As a union man I’m wise
    to the lies of the company spies
    And I always get my way
    if I strike for higher pay.”

    Strawbs-Part of the Union 1973 Youtube video

  231. Ha Ha Rutherford.

    Thanks, Poolman. I was just guessing. A link to Drudge says Madison reported a 119% turnout. Voter fraud and a complicate media explain why I would support a 16 to 1 ratio if it would win the election for Walker. I won’t be convinced of his victory until after the recount, assuming the margin is close.

  232. 😆 That info was from a Madison City clerk.

    That is because voters can actually register to vote at the polls in Wisconsin. But they are claiming it will be about an 80 percent turnout.

    By midday it had already surpassed previous voting records and they had to print more ballots and bring in more workers.

    Generally high turnouts bode well for democrats.


  233. Walker projected victor. With a range of 18-35% in other races no GOP candidate is in trouble at present.

  234. I’m not entirely sure why you’re so depressed.

    {Puts head in hands…}

    “R”, 😆

    Man, I don’t mean to burst your bubble. But there’s a wide gulf between depression and sheer boredom.

    I mean, buddy. I appreciate the forum and all, but in the grand scheme of things, this place is bad habit like smoking cigarettes. 😀

  235. One other thing, “R”. You may not recognize the content, but I do. I gave up about six minutes into trying to convince you how wrong you are and pretty much followed the forum of Chen.

    So instead of trying to establish serious dialogue, I picked up a rock. I do the same thing at Fat Grannies, though you’re infinitely more interesting and well written than those glue horses. Don’t mean to insinuate that.

    But in the end, you ultimately come to the same conclusions. Your life is much closer to their life than my life, as are you basic principles.

    A stranger at a blog can’t overcome a lifetime of indoctrination.

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