A GOP Delusion: The Radical Obama

If I had a dollar for every time I’ve argued with some wingnut about how radical President Barack Obama is (or in reality isn’t), I’d be a very rich man. It’s cool to find someone who can summarize the points neatly with a bit of snarky humor thrown in for good measure.

In Bill Maher’s latest rant on HBO’s “Real Time with Bill Maher”, Maher lays out the case for the GOP delusion of a radical Obama. For starters, since Maher is a standup comic, he tours America all the time. He sees “real” Americans every day. And guess what? Nothing has changed. It’s the same damn America it was under Bush. People work, go to church, go to the mall and buy Justin Bieber tickets. With Bill’s help, let’s look at the things Obama hasn’t done that might have classified him as radical.

 

  1. Pulled the troops out of Afghanistan.
  2. Medicare for all.
  3. Ended the war on drugs.
  4. Cut the defense budget in half.
  5. Turned Dick Cheney over to the Hague.

Now let’s look at some of the radical things he has done:

  1. Cut taxes and spending — how radical!
  2. He didn’t break up the too big to fail banks.
  3. More oil drilling under Obama than ever.
  4. Dow 7949 to 12000 with record profits for corporations … how socialist!!

As Maher says, the GOP needs to paint the picture of Obama that justifies their hatred. The fact that it is based in fiction seems beside the point.

So the choice this November, my friends, is between a moderate liberal and moderate conservative pretending to be a right-wing nut job. Have fun at the polls but don’t be deluded.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

WordPress.com Political Blogger Alliance

393 thoughts on “A GOP Delusion: The Radical Obama

  1. Cut taxes and spending — how radical!

    WTF? Good gawd, man. You didn’t follow your advice in the last paragraph. Are you really that DELUDED?

    Dow 7949 to 12000 with record profits for corporations … how socialist!!

    So uh, why isn’t Obama slamming them down if times are so damn good and Obama is responsible? If Obama’s been so dynamite for the petroleum industry, why are they working like hell to remove him? In Arkansas, probably the South’s most Democratic state, 42% of the Dems are uncommitted Obama is so popular. Must be racism. 😈

    Give it up. I’ve read better coming from Fat Grannies host. A complete lack of parroted lies of which all of these have been discounted. Good grief, Bill Maher is who you take your cue from now? Wasn’t Sandi available for advice?

    Tell me this is your Cory Booker moment, and somebody read your last couple of posts of truth and threatened your Obama badge, so you’re having to walk it back?

    As lame as you are, I know you’re better than this.

  2. LOL Poolman I figured you’d like that Fiore video. On top of that I read in the Times this morning about Obama’s hit list. Mofo picks who he wants to kill in a weekly meeting. Damn!!!

  3. I read that article too. Some aren’t even adults. Some peacemaker we got, eh? This entire beast needs to be taken down. Stat.

  4. Yeah. Sure. Whatever R.

    So. . . what’s going on in the Zimmerman case? The media’s been mighty quiet since the prosecutor’s file was aired. Oh, and of course they lost you in the Lynch-Zimmerman cheer leading section. 😆

    (you really are better than this)

  5. Every time Maher opens his mouth he gets a little smaller. His throat is an open grave.

    But thumbs up that you think it’s cool to find someone like him, R.

  6. I find it interesting that you take the tact of blaming the Bush administration’s policies for everything from the terrible economy to the protracted war in Afghanistan, but simultaneously takes credit for the long-term effects of the Bush administration’s policies when it helps Obama to placate voters on issues like oil drilling. (R try a google search of Obama’s record on issuing drilling permits on federal land — your claim is a joke).

    So, which Obama policies support your claims of what you claim “[Obama] has done?”

  7. Posted on the other thread before I saw this one and it fits here better. The only way Obama will win is if the November surprise comes a couple months early with a war with Iran, or Romney screwing up. Short of that, it will be Romney by a landslide.

  8. Rutherford i’m one that doesn’t find Obama that radical but that is mainly because I find him so vacant. He really kind of blew any chance he had to be “something”. For a black guy with international upbringing and diverse education he is one vanilla ice cream mofo.

    I take exception to the statement of Romney trying to be a right wing nut.
    Romneys position are far from ultra right wing in nature.
    Domestically he has prescribed very mainstream republican/liberatarian based ideas for the economy.His education plan that has been spat upon by the lefties is actually fairly standard fare ala right of center but not the far edge at all and is indeed backed by credible research.
    On foreign policy he has set a course that initially follows the Jacksonian school of thought as opposed to the quasi-Wilsonian thing we’re in now.
    I was debating a post for it but hell I’ll just share it here.
    I think three persons that capture the style and substance (if not the actual people) of what Pres. Romney will look for in his admin are as follows:
    Sec. of State: John Bolton;this is the boldness characterized by his statements on the record to date.
    Sec of Defense: Gen David Petreaus;captures the desire to have competence as well as that on the ground commander experience.
    Sec of Education: Michelle Rhee;reformer and more likely to accept than say Mr Canada,captures diversity flag too.

  9. Yeah, Bill Maher is really in touch with ordinary Americans. And Obama cut spending. Oh, Charly Manson was a model citizen. Lets go snipe hunting with a flash light and pillow case while we’re at it.

  10. Secretary of Education? Alfie, what is it with your love for that fat left butt cheak of Nanny? That Jimmy Carter bull shit should vanish.

  11. I just heard tonight we borrow $1.4 trillion a year to pay for means tested societal programs a year – that includes housing, foodstamps, and unemployment. And Rutherford wants us to believe Obama has: (1) lowered taxes and (2) raised the DOW.

    I don’t think people are buying your lies anymore, Rutherford. I think your lies are so transparent and outrageous in nature, even the uninformed rubes have figured this one out. Only the truly Obama suckasses are on board – the same scumbags that watch Bill Maher for their talking points. Sound familiar?

    As far as drilling more than ever. 😆 Buddy, they’re shutting in wells as we speak for no other reason than natural gas is so cheap right now due to overabundance of supply, in spite of President Food Stamp. Shale gas and hydraulic fracking, both of which Obama has fought against tooth and nail because he is stupid. Did I mention the XL Pipeline – the southern part Obama took credit for, though is well along before he even assumed the Presidency.

    ** GUFFAW **

    Barack Obama has been, without doubt, the most hostile President ever towards the entire hydrocarbon industry, while stealing billions for campaign donations for an industry that doesn’t work, euphemistically called ‘green energy’ – the only green the money being shoved out the door to Obama’s cronies.

    Where do you mendacious scumbags come up with these lies? President Austerity?

  12. After four years now of observation, I have decided Rutherford can only be of the school of superficiality if he really believes what he just wrote.

    Rutherford really is part of that superficial audience Maher appeals to, complete with laugh track.

    I used to think this was just for show. But last week, after Rutherford announced Obama has overseen the smallest increases of government in the last 60 years, I realized he was pretty simple minded.

    This trash heap has only reinforced would I should have known almost four years ago when “R” used to post those fireside chats.

  13. So uh, why isn’t Obama slamming them down if times are so damn good and Obama is responsible? If Obama’s been so dynamite for the petroleum industry, why are they working like hell to remove him? In Arkansas, probably the South’s most Democratic state, 42% of the Dems are uncommitted Obama is so popular. Must be racism.

    Oh with dumb arguments like this coming at me, this is going to be a fun thread.

    1.No one said times were good. Please find the quote. What was stated was that the Dow is in great shape and corporations are raking in money. A socialist would never stand for such capitalist success. So, as Maher says, Obama is one lousy socialist.

    2. You divert … prove that oil drilling has NOT gone up under Obama. I bet you can’t.

    3. 42% of Dems are uncommitted. LOL you just proved Maher’s point, you nincompoop. He is DISAPPOINTING progressives.

    Keep trying Tex. This comment from you was hardly your best work. 😉

  14. BTW, after reading Tigre’s first comment, my #18 applies to all of you. Rather than attack the messenger (your fav tactic) take apart the message. I bet you can’t. 🙂

  15. But thumbs up that you think it’s cool to find someone like him, R.

    I’ve described in prior threads, Muffy, my love/hate relationship with Maher. He’s an egotistical a$$hole who thinks he’s way smarter than he really is. But like any debater, I take my talking points where I can find them and Bill made a nice easy list for me to grab onto. He only confirmed what I’ve been telling you guys all along. Obama is no far left radical. He’s a moderate and a disappointment to true progressives.

  16. Regarding comment 8, damn Tigre you liked that WAPO link so much you posted it twice. You know … duplicating the link doesn’t strengthen your argument. It’s still just two sources, not three. 🙂

    From WAPO The White House might have a case that some of the rhetoric concerning Obama’s spending patterns has been overblown, Hear, hear! The WAPO analysis pulls in their preferred method of analysis. The spending chart shown by Maher uses other assumptions and preferences. No clear winner in my mind … and definite evidence either way that Obama has not gone crazy with spending.

    If we look at James P’s analysis in the Enterprise blog, we’re talking about a 4% increase in percent of GDP. Even if that blows the Nutting analysis out of the water …. it hardly constitutes a spending binge.

    So again … the GOP are either deluded or lying.

  17. Short of that , unless Romney screws up royally, it will be a landslide loss.

    Koolaid can be very bad for you Noah. If Obama loses (and he may) it will be by a nose.

  18. Maher still put a cool million into Obama’s campaign. I guess he bought bitching rights. What he says is basically true. Obama has gone warmonger and big bank pansy. It wasn’t what he promised on the stump.

    But to think Romney would improve the economy is ludicrous. He will let business take whatever is left to take inflating the currency until it won’t float anymore. Sell us out to the highest bidder.

  19. Bill Maher is really in touch with ordinary Americans.

    Rabbit, with all due respect, Maher sees more of this country in a month than you do in several years. I’m not saying he’s “of the common man” but I am saying he sees America … big cities and small towns … and he sees it ain’t falling apart. It’s actually changed very little.

    A thought experiment for you. Fly an American out of America in October 2008 with Bush still in the WH. Fly them back in two years later. They’d say it was the same America they left two years before, I have no doubt.

  20. And Rutherford wants us to believe Obama has: (1) lowered taxes and (2) raised the DOW.

    Who cares what he borrowed Tex? Apples and oranges. He lowered taxes … FACT. Second I never said HE raised the DOW. I said under his “socialist regime” the DOW has done damn well so how good a socialist can he be?

  21. “In Arkansas, probably the South’s most Democratic state, 42% of the Dems are uncommitted Obama is so popular.” – Tex

    In 2008 Obama lost Arkansas by 20 points while carrying Virginia, North Carolina and Florida. If Arkansas is the South’s most Democratic state, they have a funny way of showing it.

  22. “Short of that, it will be Romney by a landslide.” -Nagic

    Can you list the states you believe will deliver this landslide? IMO it will be very close. Hell, even Arizona is in play right now.

  23. The MSM are liars, Rutherford. I have to keep reminding you guys of that. It isn’t over. Delegates. Convention. Then the fat lady sings. It’s too early to call.

    We live in an age where the media makes the news instead of reveals it. Don’t accept their version.

  24. Rutherford, it would be almost impossible to debate these issues with you and Thor, so we’ll just have to wait for the election to see which one of us is right. I don’t think either one of you have a clue concerning complex issues, and I never have. And I say that with remarkable assuredness. Both of you are MSNBC frequents that quote from their talking points and memes every day here. A few examples:

    Obama lowered taxes? Well, he lowered payroll taxes. But payroll taxes are but one of many taxes, Rutherford. Those payroll taxes amounted to about $13.00 each month for the average American family. Obama’s debt absorbed by the average American family of four offsets that in hours. Debt is simply deferred taxation, “R”, with interest. 40 cents on every dollar of spending now.

    Let’s remember what Obama proposed one month into his ‘regime’:

    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2009/02/obamas-budget-a/

    Obamacare requires huge cuts in Medicare – the dirty little secret. You clamored here for single payer for everyone. We can’t pay what we have now and the costs are either escalating, or payments are being cut dramatically to physicians, many who are now refusing Medicare patients. Perhaps you can take a moment to explain to us minions why you want to further compound a broken system by putting all of us into the system, if you were are our superior intellect as you propose?

    http://news.investors.com/article/612925/201205291831/obamacare-requires-massive-cuts-in-medicare-to-keep-spending-controlled.htm?src=IBDDAE

    Thor takes me to task over one election as if this has proven I’m wrong, as if 2008 was the only vote on historical record.

    I would remind Thor, he must forget Arkansas is the home and birthright of one Bill Clinton with a spouse in tow by the name of Hillary. Virginia just elected a Republican governor by 20 points less than three years ago. Florida might provide a good argument, but Florida was one of the reddest states less than 25 years ago.

    But NC and VA are not what I would consider the ‘South’ – that’s really more the Mid Atlantic region, as there are more than two regions in this country unless Thor would consider Southern California the Pacific Northwest?

    One thing has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. This is not in dispute. Obama has failed by every economic measure domestically.

    Keynesian economics has led to a debt downgrade and no jobs. We have fewer jobs now after $15 trillion dollars of spending than we had 42 months ago. Work force participation is at its lowest in 35 years, and has moved lower under Obama despite the spending. Obama has accrued more debt in 42 months than Bush did in 96 months. Obama has added 17MM people to the food stamp rolls – a 34% increase. One of out two families live in poverty or near poverty under Obama.

    Would you like me to go on, nimrod? Yeah, you damn right this is going to be fun using your blog to shoot down your man.

  25. See Rutherford’s brilliance, Rabbit?

    Rabbit, with all due respect, Maher sees more of this country in a month than you do in several years. I’m not saying he’s “of the common man” but I am saying he sees America … big cities and small towns … and he sees it ain’t falling apart.

    You got to remember, Rabbit. Roofing homes or teaching in public schools is not the real America. Why Bill Maher swings through Hickory, NC, or Flint, MI, or Branson, MO, all the time. He entertains and frequents churches, and Elk clubs, and NRA meetings, and NASCAR, and Detroit Tiger baseball games too. Maher’s travels along the inner urban areas are legendary while he stays at the LA Hyatt & Marriott Marquis and Motel 6.

    Forget him, Rabbit. Like Maher, Rutherford lives in a bubble. He’ll be like his brothers in New Orleans when the shit hits the fan bleating SAVE ME! SAVE ME!

    When your life consists of sitting in your apartment, reading the PuffHO, watching Morning Joe in the morning, followed by Chris Hayes on the weekends, followed by the nightly routine of the MSNBC cast bandied about with the Mrs., with a radio show featuring the adorable and incompetent Sandi Behrns, you have a tendency to get a real skewed view of life.

  26. Okay R, here’s another for 3 (not including 2 I posted in the last thread making it 5 total):

    http://news.yahoo.com/fact-check-obama-off-thrifty-spending-claim-231221900.html;_ylt=A2KJ3CbkUcBPaDsADQ7QtDMD

    Why do you choose to argue that the so-called accomplishments that don’t belong to Obama do, and accept the lies and distortions without question when they cut directly against his policy and platform. You’re cheering for the wrong guy zipper head.

    To a rational person, claiming undeserved credit for increased drilling while running a anti-hydrocarbon platform directed at restricting domestic production is preposterous. Obviously not to the hero-worshipping drones on the left.

    You’re better than this R.

    Now, if you’re going to criticize me for platitudes, go refute the info I gave you and explain to the class why it doesn’t refute what you are claiming the Nutting chart shows. There’s extra credit for explaining why Obama is responsible for increased drilling when he has restricted permits for drilling on federal land more so than either Clinton or Bush and the increases you claim are directly attributable to the permits issued by Bush. You get a 70 for being smart enough to ignore the “tax cuts” and hope we forget about how stupid you are believing it.

  27. I don’t have time to read all of the comments because our computer may freeze. However, I have time to tell you that saying Obama cut spending is a bald- faced lie. I read how that tool doctored his interpretation of data to show Obama isn’t a big spender. You should know better than to accept it for the propaganda it is.

    Even more spending and higher taxes will come after the next election.

    “More oil drilling under Obama’s” reign ” is also a lie. Oil production and drilling are higher, but most of the increase is from private land or permits issued by the Clinton and Bush administrations.

    Obama’s not letting too big to fail banks remain intact is not necessarily a plus.

    The stock market has little to do with Obamas’ policies, and it doesn’t necessarily translate to more domestic jobs.

    What about the Freedom of the Seas treaty Obama wants passed?
    What about the EPA’s forcing Tombstone, Arizona to repair its water aquaducts with horses and sledges because to do otherwise would hurt the local environment?

    So, in the words of an old song, “you told the truth, but you’re still a liar.” Not you personally. You do need to get out more and read other views.

  28. Obama unintentionally insulted the Poles. Just how competent is he? What if a Republican such as Sarah Palin had made such a gaff? He should know better.

  29. Tigre,

    I may have indeed misjudged Rutherford’s ability to grasp published fact and think critically.

    What Rutherford has presented the last couple of months minus the low society fluff (Trayvon) demonstrates to me either an utter ignorance of accounting, finance and economics and our standing as debtor nation, or a delusion so deep that facts don’t matter anymore. The only thing that matters is getting Obama reelected, I suppose. Rutherford may indeed be the male version of Sandi. I always thought it was just Thor but Rutherford is right there with him.

    And he’s not alone in the outrage…Let’s take the Left’s version of Charles Krauthammer as example. I thought this had been laughed off the tube, but I was wrong:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/romneys-distortions-about-obama-do-us-a-disservice/2012/05/28/gJQA9JuTxU_story.html

    The U.S. has been a country dependant on foreign investments
    for some years, but Obama took the boat anchor with 8 lbs. weight and added an anvil.

  30. “Short of that, it will be Romney by a landslide.” -Nagic

    Can you list the states you believe will deliver this landslide? IMO it will be very close. Hell, even Arizona is in play right now.

    Nuff said?

  31. Roofing homes or teaching in public schools is not the real America.

    This is why arguing with you is a waste of time. You create false arguments. No one said Rabbit does not see “real” America. But he sees a slice of it. If he’s gonna be honest, he’ll admit that not much has changed since 2008 even from his experience. Rabbit didn’t swap homes because of Obama … he would have done that anyway even if McCain had been elected.

    Tex, truth be told, America hasn’t changed that much in your immediate experience either. It’s a lot of melodrama. The country still does what it always has done. The same goes for me … I see people going about their business same as always.

    The country is in a deep recession, people are out of work. That ain’t Obama’s fault … and that’s the only noticeable “change” that anyone might observe traveling the country, greater unemployment.

    And whether you like it or not, Bill Maher DOES see more of this country than you do sitting on your ass blogging all day. So stop arguing about fact.

  32. And give me big huge f*cking break, A Nazi death camp in Poland is a Polish death camp. The poles need to get over their sensitivity. We all know Hitler wasn’t Polish. We all know Poland was not willfully active in Nazi atrocities. They need to get a grip.

  33. Obama’s not letting too big to fail banks remain intact is not necessarily a plus.

    The stock market has little to do with Obamas’ policies, and it doesn’t necessarily translate to more domestic jobs.

    James, no one is saying letting the too big to fail banks stay intact is a good thing. The point is a POTUS tough on business would have broken them up. Obama did not. And the banks are up to all the same shenanigans that got us screwed in 2008.

    You make the same mistake with the stock market that Tex did. No one said Obama made the DOW go up. What I said was that capitalist companies don’t achieve record profits under the choke hold of a socialist regime. The charge that Obama is a socialist is bogus.

  34. Tex, James, and R (by reference), you’re right. It’s mind numbing enough in the first instance that R unquestioningly relies on easily refuted propaganda (i.e. downright lies), but galling in the second instance that he actually taunts those of us that know better.

    R, we all get Obama’s desire and willingness to have his cake and eat it too with his unquestioning followers. However, if you are going to trumpet accomplishments that completely contradict his stated policy/platform as a method of attacking his opponent you are fool.

    Since character is what it’s all about (right?), why you defiantly march forward wagging never ignoring Obama’s veracity is a mystery. And if you like what he holds at as proof that he is conservative, vote conservative or shut the fuck up. You truly don;t get it.

  35. I repeat to James …. the Poles need to get a life. In fact the article says they go hunting through the news to find atrocities attributed to them. They need to see a therapist.

  36. “America hasn’t changed that much in your immediate experience either. It’s a lot of melodrama. The country still does what it always has done. The same goes for me … I see people going about their business same as always.”

    Other than the crippling debt and unemployment it’s just like 2004? Gimme a break. People were going about their business right before the bomb hit Nagasaki too.

    The fact that we’re not curled up in the fetal position rather than attempting to live our lives under the dark cloud of difficult times is proof of nothing.

  37. “I repeat to James …. the Poles need to get a life. In fact the article says they go hunting through the news to find atrocities attributed to them. They need to see a therapist.”

    Sounds familiar. Hmmmm. What other groups do that and evoke an entirely different reaction from you?

  38. “Nuff said?” – Nagic

    So the answer is no. You can’t give us the list of states that will deliver the White House to Romney in a landslide. Are you just regurgitating what you’ve heard?

  39. Mmmm let’s see. Thor asks Noah/Nagic for a list of states that confirms his assessment of an oncoming landslide and the best Noah can do is pop up a picture of a convicted felon.

    That’s one reason you (Noah) might actually LOSE this election. You and many of your cohorts are SILLY.

  40. “This is why arguing with you is a waste of time. You create false arguments. No one said Rabbit does not see “real” America. But he sees a slice of it.”

    By this argument 80% of Americans wouldn’t have a valid opinion.

    The country is in a deep recession, people are out of work. That ain’t Obama’s fault.

    If after 3-1/2 years the economy and jobs is still not Obama’s fault, then he can also not take credit for anything good.

    Rutherford, are you familiar with the word…Accountability? Does this word have any value to you? Do you hold this word to Obama? It seems to me Obama held it to himself. By the standards HE set, do you think it is “mission accomplished” or “mission failed” ?

  41. Rutherford
    I was making what I thought was a simplistic point. I am sorry you missed it, I will try to be even more simple in the future.

  42. Poolman, c’mon dude … that was a 2011 video. Unless Palin wants to completely alienate herself from the GOP she will endorse no one or she will endorse Romney.. The Beck interview is old too.

    You know I love you man (in a manly sort of way) but don’t piss on my leg and then tell me it’s raining.

  43. However, if you are going to trumpet accomplishments that completely contradict his stated policy/platform as a method

    You must not have listened to the whole radio show or read all of Sandi’s article. The fact that Romney’s charge against Obama is exaggerated at best does not point to a result that progressives are happy about. It’s a bit of a catch-22. On the one hand, Obama supporters don’t like distortions told about him. On the other hand we might have actually preferred that the distortion be true.

  44. “Thor takes me to task over one election as if this has proven I’m wrong, as if 2008 was the only vote on historical record.” – Tex

    You brought up Arkansas, not me. I simply asked why Obama not polling well in a state he lost by 20 points matters? Of course, you had no answer.

    Now, Romney down 20 points in a state that is supposed to be his crowning achievement, that knows him best, that seems to speak volumes.

  45. People were going about their business right before the bomb hit Nagasaki too.

    Wow that’s a new high in stupidity on your part Tigre. I didn’t think you had it in you. What did they look like after Nagasaki got bombed? Your claim … and that of the entire Obama opposition … is that the bomb has already been dropped, chaos has already ensued. Clearly melodrama.

    You want to see chaos … look at the bread lines during the Great Depression. Seen any bread lines lately Tigre?

  46. What other groups do that and evoke an entirely different reaction from you?

    If it’ll make you happy El Tigre … blacks and Poles need to get a life. 🙂

  47. Noah I don’t believe the President ever said if he didn’t achieve his goals in four years he would not seek reelection. I believe he said if things didn’t noticeably improve he might be looking at a “one term proposition”. And that remains to be true. America may indeed toss him out on his ass in November.

  48. I was making what I thought was a simplistic point. I am sorry you missed it, I will try to be even more simple in the future.

    No it was silly … beyond simplistic. Please don’t make things any more simplistic in the future … it only makes YOU look simple.

    Thor gave you a challenge you have not yet met. I’m waiting.

  49. Rutherford, we became friends with a survivor of Auschwitz, and she was our unofficial grandmother. I taped two hours of her detailed recollections for our daughter’s history project and for us to give to her children and grand children after her death. She had never shared her experiences in detail, and she only told us
    because she thought that I with my past would understand.

    Twenty four of her relatives were in the camp with her, and they all died. She had collapsed and was left to die on a pile of straw when the camp was liberated. Getting out of post war Europe after she recovered was no picnic either. Her group would have died had it not been for the help of American soldiers.

    Multiply her ordeal by millions, and you will understand why this still a sensitive issue for Poland.

    Auschwitz was set up and run by Germans, though some Quizilings like George Soros in Austria may have helped. Over a million people died there, and at least 300,000 were Poles. The others were moved there from German occupied territories. At least six million Poles died in the war. Many were resistance fighters, and thousands died at Auscwitz.

    I had never met a Pole until basic training, and our TI’s mocked them with Polack jokes and comments about Polish firing squads. They had to grin and bear it.

    Poles are as sensitive of their past as blacks are of their enslavement in America. They have been persuading the media and others to refer to German death camps, not Polish because the implication is that Poland was complicant. The Poles have a right to define their history as they see fit because they, not we lived through it.

    Obama’s writers should have known this. I did. He has unnecessarily made a country angry and who knows how many American Poles. Obama has compounded his mistake with a weak almost non-appology.

    This is the president. He should have learned enough on the job to avoid stupid mistakes like this, but he keeps making them. The Polish foreign minister said the mistake reflected ignorance and incompetance. This one could cost Obama some Polish-American votes.

    So if you write “the Poles need to get a life” you should also tell the blacks who still feel victimized by “slavery to shut up and get a life.” Every former slave is dead now, but Poles who survived WW11 are still alive and remember.

  50. From someone that has none.

    LOL I thought for a minute there you were going to actually deal with the comment … show me why MarketWatch has a pattern of fallibility. But no … insulting me was easier.

    Cool, I’ve told you in the past I don’t want to stress those brain cells. I’d feel terrible if a defendant lost his case because you’d burned too many brain cells on the blog. 🙂

  51. This is why arguing with you is a waste of time. You create false arguments. No one said Rabbit does not see “real” America.

    Not only do you not understand accounting, finance or math, you don’t understand statistical sampling either. There is no false argument.

    Maher is a vile coward and 97lbs. wimp and ingrate, who keeps the same comfortable company no matter what city, state or town he is in. Therefore, neither he nor you know what the hell you’re talking about.

    You immature, stupid liberals like scumbag Chris Hayes wouldn’t know real America if they marched through your front room and through you out and the couch out the window. Rabbit sees more of the real walk in America in a day of teaching than Maher will experience in a year. You’ve got it completely backwards, dumbass. And so does Stewart, and Colbert, and your MSNBC undie sniffers, and every other Yankee Harvard faggot endowed by the size of his daddy’s wallet or color of his skin. You bunch of poor, pathetic wannabees. Join the military, then you’ll see what America looks like, Rutherford. Rabbit has forgotten more about the real world than you or Casper will ever know.

    Tex, truth be told, America hasn’t changed that much in your immediate experience either. It’s a lot of melodrama. The country still does what it always has done. The same goes for me … I see people going about their business same as always.

    Got a neighborhood friend. He and his wife walked my neighborhood daily looking a picture of health. One day, she awoke to a migraine headache. Two weeks later she was dead. All the while, cancer was destroying her brain and she never even knew it. Didn’t even suspect it. One week after diagnosis, seizures started, becoming more violent through the last week of her life. I held his hand as he weeped on my curb last week walking alone. That will be you one day when your little illusion of immorality comes crashing down and you realize you played party to it. Everything will look just the same, and then everything you took for granted – poof. Just like a fart in the wind.

    The country is in a deep recession, people are out of work. That ain’t Obama’s fault … and that’s the only noticeable “change” that anyone might observe traveling the country, greater unemployment.

    You don’t even hold this feckless liar accountable for his many grand promises. He was going to heal our earth and lower our seas. He was going to halve the deficit and bring us together. He was going to close GITMO, hold America to a higher standard, have dialogue with despots and bring peace by the magnanimity of his personality. The Cult of Obama. He was the one we’d been waiting for – Pffft. Remember those days of wine and roses as you made an ass of yourself with your little hero worship? Well, like Dylan said, “How does it feel to be on your own?” And like Tex said, “Eating a shit sandwich?” Fool.

    Obama’s a flimflam and a con artist. A blank slate for a reason. A closet racist and Chicago style thug, so hopelessly in over his head he doesn’t have a clue. Look at the perverts and thugs he’s appointed. That tells you all you need to know about Obama.

    So Obama has resorted to the only thing he does well. He campaigns and makes promises he can’t keep. He divides and conquers like the totalitarians masters that he learned at the knee. He takes away your future, and you love him for it because he shares your make believe enemies and he tells you his plans for some false sense of utopia because it’s what you gotsta hear.

    No wonder, you quietly can’t wait for Bill Maher every Friday night. I got some news for you. He can’t wait for you to tune in either. Because only the lowest of the scum can he manipulate. And you’re on the couch, like a little kid licking the koolaid out of the packet.

  52. Seen any bread lines lately Tigre?

    We got them at our Compassion building at church. Most of what they get is the processed foods. That is a major contributor to obesity. The cheap food is generally the most detrimental to our collective health. But that is what’s often most available to store and distribute.

    We try to include fresh fruit and vegetables when they are provided.

    We Americans stand in line for Harry Potter or Nike shoes, not bread. We camp out for big screen teevees and risk all for latest i-dol. We throw away more food daily than some countries even have.

  53. “Rutherford, it would be almost impossible to debate these issues with you and Thor, so we’ll just have to wait for the election to see which one of us is right. I don’t think either one of you have a clue concerning complex issues, and I never have.” – Tex

    See R, that’s the problem. These issues are far too complex for us. We should just sit back and let the “smart” guy tutor us. I learned so much from Mr. Petroleum when he predicted $6.00 a gallon gas … Doh!

    Now I’ve done it. Mr Angry Geography guy is probably going to threaten to push me into the Alaskan Straight again, wherever the fuck the Alaskan Straight is.

  54. You brought up Arkansas, not me. I simply asked why Obama not polling well in a state he lost by 20 points matters? Of course, you had no answer.

    Oh, but I do have an answer. It’s called changing demographics and the changing tide. These aren’t Clinton’s Democrats in those states you list. They don’t exist anymore – they’ve been superseded by granolas and/or greenies that know nothing about how the world operates, besides not recognizing somebody is keeping the lights on.

    Those maggots that live in these large urban areas and have so hopelessly fucked up their own states? The last 10-15 years, they’ve migrated to places like New Hampshire, Virginia, North Carolina and Florida, just like liberal Californians have migrated to Oregon, Colorado and New Mexico. And these feckless scum like you with numbers large enough like the locusts? They push politics another way until they pillage those states too. And when they did, the decent people employed just kept on moving. But they’ve run out of real estate, and now it’s time to make a stand. That’s why your hero is down 40-50 points here and south. They’ve vote for Farrakhan before they would vote for Obama. Unlike you, we see clearly through the transparent flimflam.

    Now, Romney down 20 points in a state that is supposed to be his crowning achievement, that knows him best, that seems to speak volumes.

    In a state that voted for a murderer for 40 years, and still believes in Camelot? A better question might be how Romney got elected in a liberal state to begin with? Because Romney’s crowning achievement ain’t Massachusetts. It’s called capital and wealth creation – a concept you libs completely unfamiliar without government assistance.

  55. Fuck the Pollocks. He didn’t mean anything about it. They should just come out and say what they really are thinking. They don’t trust Obama one bit as they deal with mounting Russian agression.

    Plenty of Poles took part in killing Jews.

  56. Mmmm let’s see. Thor asks Noah/Nagic for a list of states that confirms his assessment of an oncoming landslide and the best Noah can do is pop up a picture of a convicted felon.

    That’s one reason you (Noah) might actually LOSE this election. You and many of your cohorts are SILLY.

    Rutherford & Thor
    What the fuck is your problem? I am not a statistician. Why would you think I would have a state by state up-to-date analysis? And by not having this exact up-to-the-minute analysis you claim it invalidates an opinion?

    Look at your arguments above. Your entire defense of everything against you or your messiah is…well he didnt say EXACTLY that…followed by nothing of merit . Obama has been President for 3.5 years yet the economy isn’t his fault, Unemployment isnt his fault. I will kick my sons ever loving ass if he comes to me telling me how his life unfolds is not his fault. How long before you take it to the next level and tell us Obama failed because he was black?

    It would appear accountability has no value in your life. Show me how in one hand you say Obama has no part in the state of our economy or unemployment, and how you can with the other hand say he is responsible for everything good that has happened?

  57. “Obama’s writers should have known this. I did. He has unnecessarily made a country angry and who knows how many American Poles. Obama has compounded his mistake with a weak almost non-appology.” – James

    I agree. He should make it clear. Lack of clarity on this subject only opens the door wider for idiots like yuck-ma-dinijad.

  58. Now I’ve done it. Mr Angry Geography guy is probably going to threaten to push me into the Alaskan Straight again, wherever the fuck the Alaskan Straight is.

    And I suppose you can document that too? Why don’t you go retrieve that for us, Thor?

  59. Rutherford doesn’t see bread lines, because he doesn’t see the world. Community food banks are starving for product as we speak.

    But let’s let “writers” like Thor operate the world for us. If you want a good laugh, read some of his personal memoirs. Real touching stuff. 😈

  60. I learned so much from Mr. Petroleum when he predicted $6.00 a gallon gas … Doh!

    Just make sure you stick around, Homer. That is if you got the balls to face me .

  61. Nagic, if you get tired of Thor’s imagination and claims of which I have now twice asked him to document his charges and he disappears coveniently…

    Do what I did. Hit the one thing that all liberal starving artists understand. His pocketbook. Bet him on the Presidential results like I did. This clown has been telling us for months that Obama is Harry Truman.

    Well, ask him to ante up and we’ll see.

  62. Tell me something real about yourself, Thor. Instead of this writer’s persona. How does that convenient mode of Christianity you practice and your undying support of Planned Parenthood square this one away?

    http://protectourgirls.com/

    Or is only favored sons that count?

    Phony bastard.

  63. “And I suppose you can document that too? Why don’t you go retrieve that for us, Thor?”

    Why? So you can just “forget” you said it. Maybe when I have some time, but for now, I have to go do my eight hours in the “fake world” while you “keep it real” one keystroke at a time. God knows I need every penny I can get. This $6 a gallon gas is killing me.

  64. While the story of your neighbor was moving, Tex, what does that have to do with the price of tea in China? She got brain cancer because of Obama … or a bad economy? Sorry dude, your story (don’t take life for granted) has its worth but has no applicability to this discussion.

  65. Obama’s mistake concerns only Poland and Obama.No one else cares.

    More importantly for Obama, his writers’ stupid mistake may cost him votes he needs to win.

    Thus “Lack of clarity on this subject only opens the door wider for..” Romney who is not an idiot.

  66. R, you think Bill Mahr has some insight when it comes to the pulse of America because he flies first class and performs at swanky night clubs in trendy urban districts? Is it his conversations with the 5 star room service desk?

    Bill Mahr…man of the people. Lol.

    By the way, Rabbit has lived on two coasts and one foriegn country. There are plenty of glaring hypocrisies, faults and weaknesses about the ‘ol rabbit. But come on man, don’t take my plebeian status and give it to some play boy patrician!

  67. Why? So you can just “forget” you said it. Maybe when I have some time, but for now, I have to go do my eight hours in the “fake world” while you “keep it real” one keystroke at a time. God knows I need every penny I can get. This $6 a gallon gas is killing me.

    Well here. Let me motivate the starving artist and double his salary. Let’s bet you’re making shit up?

    Will that square your tough world of poetry away?

    Like I said. Stick around. If you’ll remember, that $6.00 gas was based on something called the Straight of Hormuz. And when its closed, perhaps we can place another bet?

  68. “It’s a bit of a catch-22. On the one hand, Obama supporters don’t like distortions told about him. On the other hand we might have actually preferred that the distortion be true.”

    Not a catch 22. As I said, it’s wanting to have your cake and eat it too.

  69. “If it’ll make you happy El Tigre … blacks and Poles need to get a life.”

    I was thinking Muslims, but I’ll accept black too. 😆

  70. “Your claim … and that of the entire Obama opposition … is that the bomb has already been dropped, chaos has already ensued. Clearly melodrama.”

    Read what I wrote dumbass.

  71. She got brain cancer because of Obama … or a bad economy? Sorry dude, your story (don’t take life for granted) has its worth but has no applicability to this discussion.

    Geez….I really do have to draw lines for you, don’t I Rutherford?

    You don’t get it. There’s a whole world out there that is oblivious of which you are a part. See, I volunteer for something called the Eastern Oklahoma Community Foodbank on occasion. And as we speak, they can’t keep the food shelves stocked.

    So in essence, we have our soup lines. Only they don’t line up for a bowl of porridge. They line up for green bean cans missing their label.

    Did you miss me saying that one in two families in Obama’s auspicious economy of thrift (to the tune of almost $4 trillion dollars) is living at or near poverty.

    And at the very least, Obama has done absolutely nothing to alleviate the need and that need is increasing?

  72. “LOL I thought for a minute there you were going to actually deal with the comment … show me why MarketWatch has a pattern of fallibility. But no … insulting me was easier. ”

    Because it’s wrong as already pointed out.

    Your fallacious appeal to authority is a the worst kind of logical fallacy.

    I have asked at least 3 times to defend the Nutting b.s., and you don’t.

    Ball’s in your court Rutherford. I won’t bother saying that MarketWatch is incredible on this one because smarter guys say so and ask you to tell me why they’re not.

  73. Tex your argument with Thor over $6.00 gas is pretty moot anyway since the price of gas has NOTHING to do with Obama and you know it. Even your contingency … the closing of the straight … might be something Obama can do nothing about.

    Admit it … the gas price dog doesn’t hunt. That’s why you don’t see any liberals patting Obama on the back for the current price decline.

  74. “Seen any bread lines lately Tigre?”

    Yes.

    I also understand food stamps are another way of buying bread. Have your heard anything about them?

    If you don’t see people suffering first hand, you do live in the bubble we all suspect. Of course, the fact that you require Bill Mahr to make an observation what’s going on in the world speaks volumes — kinda like your observations of the black community and racial profiling. 🙄

  75. Tigre, you’ll get the same quality response I do from Thor when he makes these accusations, but then has to get to get back to his real world “writing” job.

    Here’s how liberal math works and professional “writers” calculate the results.

    When something fails, like a trillion dollar stimulus, you change the calendar and apply that cost to your predecessor. Then you claim Obamacare saves $500 billion for Medicare in a footnote to the CBO. cough cough.

    Then you add 17,000,000 to the food stamp rolls and market that as domestic spending, while at the same time you take the 99 weeks of extended unemployment, 73 which can be attributed to the federal authority, and have your Speaker of the House claim that is the fastest way to stimulate growth.

    The complicit media types like Eugene Robinson run with it, where Rachel Maddow explains the nightly talking points to the Rutherford and Thor bloggers, who do there best to mimic.

    From there, the Fat Granny regulars get wind, and Margaret elaborates with a Sarah Palin diss thrown in for good measure.

  76. I won’t bother saying that MarketWatch is incredible on this one because smarter guys say so

    The problem is that anyone who disagrees with you is not smart. Politifact said MarketWatch’s claim was mostly true. Even the more critical WAPO FactCheck identified (if I remember correctly) a 4% spending increase … hardly unprecedented avalanche of spending.

    You know damn well that different methods of accounting yield different results. None of the sources you’ve cited who’ve refuted MarketWatch’s basic claim, have managed to prove the opposite … or to put it differently, have managed to verify Romney’s claim.

    At best Tigre, everybody is spinning.

  77. R, that’s all you got? Okay. I see those brain cells are on permanent vacation.

    Back to validation through your appeal to authority. I knew you didn’t do anything other than parrot something that sounded like it reached the result you wanted. 🙄

  78. Tex your argument with Thor over $6.00 gas is pretty moot anyway since the price of gas has NOTHING to do with Obama and you know it

    Well, now wait a minute. Surely you would agree that we’ve all got to play by the same rules. And I remember on at least two separate occasions that you “writers” accused George Bush and Dick Cheney of ponying up for their oil tycoon cronies to drive up the price fuel.

    Here, a brief synopsis because I’ve got to go:

    Halliburton scheming blood for oil in Iraq (although less than 4% of imports came from Iraq – even less now).

    Bush being responsible for the speculation of $140 barrel crude in the summer of 2008 pushing up to the election.

    I can assure you that unlike Thor, I don’t need to make shit up to debate. And when gas does hit $6.00 a gallon gas and probably more, I want you to remember this little conversation we’ve had, with a promise our cowardly writer will be no where to be found when he eats a little crow.

  79. Read Coulter and the related links. I’ve given you too many to claim that there hasn’t been unprecedented spending. Using your own ignorance to taunt is getting downright embarrassing.

  80. There is no spin, Rutherford. These front groups you use as so called “fact check” are nothing but a bunch of Washington Post liberal hacks. It’s another gimmick in your propaganda ploy to make claims sound legit. It’s about as legit as “jobs saved.”

    Here’s the game. You jack up spending about 50% almost immediately and raise your baseline to historically high levels. You blame that on your predecessor (like the 800,000 lost jobs a month bullshit), then you maintain that level of spending, posing it as no spending increase under the current president.

    I don’t care how you spin these facts, over a third of the accumulate United States deficit has been accumulated under Obama’s watch.

    So which is it? Either Obama has spent like no President before him, as you’ve told us the economy is in recovery, or the economy after 42 months of Obama being President is in such dire straights, that revenues are depressed to record levels vis-a-vis GDP?

    Got to be one or the other, or a combination of both. Because Obama is now bucking to push the allowable deficit level to $16.2 trillion.

  81. That’s okay, Tigre. Thor does the same thing. Unlike our professional poet, my aromatic cedar closet can wait a board or two. Thor likes to throw analogies of things “we’ve said”, though I have no idea what the strait of Alaska is unless he refers to the Bering Strait. I mean, I watch the Discovery Channel and Deadliest Catch and by Rutherford’s definition, that makes me a worldly crab fisherman.

    Anyway, Thor has brought up this poll in Massachusetts three times, as if that a referendum on Romney.

    So I went looking at Thor’s screed poetry. I could pick numerous examples of his divine revelation, but we will start with this: His words from his blog….

    If you doubt the influence of corporations on lawmakers, doubt no longer. There is no greater example of Congress bowing to lobbyists than the current health insurance debate. Over two-thirds of the people in this country support some form of public option, yet it won’t even appear in the final bill. Apparently our elected officials fear corporate dollars more than the voices of the people.

    Now apparently Thor is convinced that 67% of the country supports a public option. Okay, I’ll take his word for it. cough cough.

    The cornerstone of Obama’s accomplishment with a majority House and Senate is the Affordable Healthcare Act – commonly known as Obamacare. That piece of legislation took the better of Obama’s 1st term.

    Why then is Obama not mentioning it while campaigning? If you are to believe Rutherford and Thor’s theses, the only reason must be is that Obamacare doesn’t go far enough to respect of providing a public option?

    I assume we’ll be hearing campaign promises from Obama of providing more in the way of public health care benefits from Obamacare?

    Matter of fact, I’m not even hearing Obama mention his cornerstone accomplishment on the tour, groupies in tow.

    Why’s that, Thor?

  82. The problem is both sides ARE spinning. We’ve already buried the axle. Time to shut down the gas guzzling engine and dig it out.

    Man, do I have to always draw a picture? 🙄

  83. Did you miss me saying that one in two families in Obama’s auspicious economy of thrift (to the tune of almost $4 trillion dollars) is living at or near poverty.

    Oh snap!!! You realize this puts you in full agreement with Tavis Smiley and Cornel West? Damn, I never believed I’d see the day! 😆

  84. I watch the Discovery Channel and Deadliest Catch and by Rutherford’s definition, that makes me a worldly crab fisherman.

    Gawd, and I LOVE crab. It’s like a sin to know how treacherous it is to procure those tasty sea bugs. But we put a price on it. Ka-ching. The risks are assessed in dollar increments.

    There are some serious scary jobs out there, for sure. I’ll stick with domesticated hydraulics, thank you very much.

  85. Took two minutes out of my life, Rutherford – two minutes I cannot afford either. I agree with them? Well, I suppose I do agree with them in the fact that yes, we are becoming a country of haves and have nots.

    But I’m afraid I don’t agree with their solution of “shrinking the gap.” Matter of fact, I’m going to try and attempt to isolate people like Thor with the gap, where I can make the divide so great, that men of ill repute and deed (like entries of poetry, which I think I’ll enter 😆 ) like Thor couldn’t transverse it if they had jet engines strapped to their ass.

    If I have my druthers, Thor and I will see who has the longer range deer rifle to shoot across the divide. If you get my analogy, which I almost always have to explain to you.

    You do realize, Rutherford? That whatever shortcoming Poolman may have, he understands my analogies where you don’t? You might want to give that some thought. 😈

  86. That whatever shortcoming Poolman may have, he understands my analogies where you don’t?

    That statement was quite the puzzle. In one breath you may have insulted me, Poolman or yourself. 🙂

  87. R, Obama’s radical ideology and his success at implementing that ideology are clearly too different things. Hanging out with Rev. wright and Bill Ayers is radical- normal people wouldn’t do it. Hiring Van Jones and Cass Sunstein to the administration is radical- normal people wouldn’t do it. “Betting” nearly 2 billion dollars for ideological purposes when every ‘wealth creator’ passed because they knew it wouldn’t work is radical. Insulting the Constitution is radical. In fact, you can point to very little about his ideology that is not radical.

    So really, all you and the Ass-clown have proven is that Obama is a coward and a failure. Of course, we already knew that didn’t we.

  88. Did you see that Obama just awarded the Pres. Medal of Freedom to the honorary chair of the Democratic Socialists of America?

    Jesus, he’s not even trying to hide it at this point…

  89. R, the marketwatch article was debunked when it claimed 2009 as a Bush year, failing of which to do the same with the other previous administrations as well as ignoring that Obama’s Stimulous passed that year. Politifact called it “pants on fire” and WaPo gave it 3 Pinochios.

    Further, when you look at deficits compared to GDP, which does the best at alleviating inflation, Obama has far outspent everyone else. Marketwatch is a good site, but this article is bunk, sortof like Saved or Created numbers…

  90. I have the radio on while building my closets. Very seldom do I listen to talk radio, but today I listened to AM. If you get a chance, listen to Rush’s last ten minutes of his broadcast and the man who called in about Bain Capital.

    And you tell me after listening to this very accomplished caller who created the possibility of local area and regional networks, who is more qualified to be President. The man’s companies created 1.25 billion dollars worth of worth and hundreds of jobs. A 78% success rate of a venture capitalist is phenomenal. And this is a story that Romney needs to sell.

    What is Obama’s sell again? Just give us more time? Bin Laden? Rutherford told me Lily Ledbetter – though Obama’s own staff doesn’t follow that law. 😆

    The economy is teetering after almost four years of The One, Obamacare is about as popular as the clap and will probably be ruled unconstitutional, GM and Chrysler in the dink to the taxpayer of billions of dollars and their stock is tanking with more workers and cars sold IN CHINA. And these are the trophies!

    Obama has nothing worthy to run on besides Bin Laden. And most of the nation laughed at his heroic claims, preferring to give credit where credit due.

    This should be comical in about three months. Where’s the Hope & Change, the no red states or blue states, the post racial President, the Weekly Fireside Chats? Where’s the Truman moment? Where’s the WE ARE THE ONES WE’VE BEEN WAITING FOR?

    ** GUFFAW **

  91. Sounds like a good remake of Debbie Does Dallas – a classic. 🙂

    But even they didn’t get to use the Coliseum.

    Tigre, I think old Rev. Al looked better when he was a lard ass. He looks gaunt now.

  92. Hey Rutherford. All your religious bigotry swing both ways? Or is it only for “white” churches? Somebody give me one good reason everyone of these black churches shouldn’t lose their tax exempt status.

    Or better yet, give me a good reason why large, mostly white megachurches shouldn’t now feel free to tell their congregation who they should vote for from the pulpit?

    Talk about Leftist double standards, mendacity and utter hypocrisy on the part of both Obama and his henchmen thugs.

    You want the definition of radical President, Rutherford? Here’s one. Eric Holder, Obama’s hand picked appointee and clear black bigot of my people over a nation of cowards. Did I mention lead attorney for America’s biggest tax cheat, Marc Rich? Holder is perfect for Obama.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/05/eric_holder_integrates_church_and_state_in_anti-voter_id_pushback.html

  93. This Billy Ruben cocksucker still is fucking with my baby boy. His blood still under attack. Not enough for more lights, but getting close.

  94. I find it telling Rutherford had no problem with Messiah Hussein and his Polish death camps, and his failure to understand why anyone would be upset about it. Why would an oppressed black man (The Prez or Rutherford) care about something like this.? I guess it only matters when a brother is mischaracterized. While penciling in “accountability” to your words to google search, add “empathy.”

    “Hardly. We are asking you to be accountable for a statement you made … twice. If you actually care to do it, here are some numbers and a map to look at.”

    It is a shame you and Rutherford don’t hold yourselves to the same standards. When it comes to answering the hard questions, you cherry pick the ones you think you can twist to your advantage, or link a video/article, letting that answer for you rather than answering yourself…per Rutherford #107. The rest you suddenly become to good to respond.

    Neither of you have the balls to go to the mat with what you claim to believe in. Neither of you will engage in honest debate and take on a genuine critique of what you claim is best for our country.

    When it comes to Obama, somehow hypocrite just doesn’t seem to fully grasp the essence of your responses. Obama did this and this and this and this and its all wonderful. But when it comes to the bad, well he had nothing to do with it, despite 3.5 years of on the job training.

    End of the day this is just a slightly more eloquent version of fat grannies. They have no more interest in finding the truth than those hags do over there.

  95. End of the day this is just a slightly more eloquent version of fat grannies. They have no more interest in finding the truth than those hags do over there.

    Bingo. We have a winner. Try as you must to minimize his contribution Rutherford, Nagic just nailed your ass to the wall. I used to think you and Thor were liberals, when you’re really just Leftists. Frankly, I prefer your style to Thor’s, because at least I find straight forward, not laced with some mealy-mouth religious dogma and nothing but leftist spin. You’re a bigot straight out.

    What’s the difference? Borrowed from my smart buddy CFB and modified a bit to suit my tastes, because I decided he’s right – we should distinguish between the two.

    ——

    A liberal wants to try a different approach, a leftist wants to replace the system.

    A liberal believes in fair play and honest disagreement, a leftist believes in hiding the truth.

    A liberal wants equality for all persons regardless of gender, color or creed, a leftist wants class and racial warfare foremost, but will divide people along any suspect class, real or invented if it personally benefits them.

    A liberal wants to take the poor and give them a chance to be rich, a leftist wants to take the rich and make them poor.

    A liberal sees the beauty in our Constitution, a leftist sees an old document that needs to be destroyed.

    A liberal is willing to play by fair rules, a leftist will break every rule and blame you for it.

    A liberal wants the system to help the disadvantaged, a leftist wants to disadvantage the system by overloading it until it collapses.

  96. Thanks for the post Tex on leftists and liberals. This has been the missing link in trying to understand these folks. I had never considered the distinction. How do I know its true? I found myself unconsciously nodding the entire way down your post. This was immeasurably helpful and enlightening to me. 2 years of exploration concluded in one post. (Hand to heart) thank you.

  97. dropping in & catching up.
    Still pulling for you dead rabbit.
    @dead rabbit I like what the DoE could be and should be and what imo it needs to be. I believe the USA needs a dramatic paradigm shift regards the public ed system. I don’t think states alone can address what I see as one of the handful of national best interest topics.(Defense,Justice/Rule of law, Education, Infrastructure, Trade/Commerce)
    Rutherford I’m not gonna go mining in the past but gas up or down NOT the POTUS fault is not the standard established by your side. Its either good for the goose good for the gander or we need to fess up methinks.
    On the Poles thing. I think the Poles have a minor point and Obama proves that articulation doesn’t cover stupid slips. The speech showed a lack of effort by all and slapped an ally who as pointed out is well aware it sits waist deep in some potentially serious shit down the road courtesy Putin Redux.
    Thor…fwiw close race Romney wins. As for MA give that horse the break it richly deserves. The Bay State is a loss cause for the most part although it does appear more each day Scott Brown victory tee shirts not out of line.

  98. Ew, I don’t know. I found that post of nagic’s borderline. To the point of wanting to distance myself from it.

    On another note, I just watched that Hatfields & McCoys program on History. Not bad. Not quite Lonesome Dove, but pretty watchable.

    One thing though, the Hatfields were represented in a different way than the McCoys, I thought. The bad apples among them were, well, just that. Bad apples. Or crazy or retarded, The rest of them were romanticized. Whereas the McCoys were all presented in such a way that it was hard to empathize or identify with or even romanticize about them.

    Definitely presented with a bias toward the Hatfields. 🙂

    I can’t talk about Bill Maher or what he says beyond just Ugh. He hate woman.

  99. Muffy, let me expound on why Nagic was correct. Are Rutherford’s posts more researched and better written than that broke fraud at Fat Grannies? Sure. Rutherford is an excellent author, whether I agree with him or not.

    But consider the context of the junk claims Rutherford has posted here in this very post. If it were meant as parody, I would have assumed there would have been a marker for /sarcasm off.

    Pure political ploy full of insidious lies carried by a messenger boy – not even original, but parroted. Not a one of them either true or having a thing to do with Obama, and in fact have worked in spite of Obama. What kind of unmitigated gall does it take to claim Obama actually has slowed spending? How stupid and gullible can one be, and yes I said stupid?

    That’s pure Fat Grannies and pure leftist group think.

    Where I think Nagic is most correct though, is not the posts themselves which lead into discussion, but the quality of Rutherford’s answers in response when challenged. We expect that from the rubes at Fat Grannies or Thorazine Goebbels to drop a load of rehearsed propaganda – unqualified liars and room temperature buffoons.

    But from Rutherford, I for one expected better. Rutherford made a capable cheerleader for the blank slate before Obama a known quality. Not six months ago before the reality of Obama’s failure set in and it became a good possibility Obama a one term Pres., in rare moments of lucidity and honesty, Rutherford admitted he’d been caught up in the fantasy.

    But fantasy has moved to reactionary. It’s back to Obama winning at all costs, deflection and deception and playing dumb the name of the game.

  100. Lonesome Dove was without doubt, the best western ever made. I’ve watched it at least ten times, and still find myself mesmerized. Robert Duvall and Tommy Lee Jones are Rangers?

    Doesn’t get any better than that. I would rank Lonesome Dove in my top ten, in the same breath as the Godfather, Shawshank Redemption, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Gone With the Wind, Lord of the Rings Trilogy, To Kill a Mockingbird, etc…

  101. This Billy Ruben cocksucker still is fucking with my baby boy. His blood still under attack. Not enough for more lights, but getting close.

    Rabbit, have they given you any predicted time as to how long your little one will be fighting this? Obviously, there’s a period of immunity war ongoing, but I can’t honestly remember from Immunology ever discussing newborns, other than HIV transmission across the placenta due to ‘leakage.’

    Every time I read Billy Ruben, it makes me laugh. To this day, I have a difficult time pronouncing a biological pathway called glycolysis correctly.

    I always want to say GLYCOL ISIS, when it’s pronounced GLYCO li sis. I caught unmerciful shiite from other med students.

  102. A real nucular moment, eh Tex. I think we all have some words that always cause difficulty.

    The difficulty I have with much of nagic’s rants against liberals is that his story and identity has shifted over the past few years. It doesn’t all add up, so I think it a bit disingenuous. I began debating him when he first showed up at M&H as dennis.

    Speaking of M&H, the lastest post really solidified my suspicions. I won’t name names, but suffice it to say it is definitely a tool of the democratic party and feels less than authentic.

    I have developed a sensitive nose for bullshit. 😀

  103. It is a shame you and Rutherford

    Maybe I’m reading too fast. Who are you talking to Noah? Yeah I get one of them is me … who is the “you” in the above sentence?

  104. I hear you, Tex. I find this current post and the ensuing comments near impossible to work with myself.

    I have a notion though that nagic came here with a huge chip in his shoulder and demands that Rutherford dismantle it for him. I can’t explain it any better than that.

  105. Well Tex at least you don’t say “nucular”. Or do you? 😉

    It was fun watching the girls gossip about Al Sharpton this evening. LOL Tex and Tigre are too much.

    As for the lib v leftist, my response will have to wait until tomorrow. I need to get to bed for a stressful day tomorrow.

    Here’s a relationship descriptor brain explosion for you Tex. My late father-in-law’s companion (sort of his second wife but never married) died last Friday and the funeral is tomorrow (Thursday) so that is how I’ll be spending a good chunk of my day … traveling to … paying respects … and traveling back home. I’d just as soon pass on the whole ordeal but “Grandma Ida” as we called her, was real good to my father-in-law and doted big time on my daughter so I owe her the postmortem visit.

    Talk to y’all tomorrow evening.

  106. Rutherford
    thor

    muffy
    and demands that Rutherford dismantle it for him

    I demand nothing other than fair play. IF he chooses to comment, then comment on the entirety of the post, not just the part he feels he can win. I have and always will answer any question posed as I have nothing to hide and nothing to lose by being proven wrong. These other 2 (Rutherford and Thor) pick and choose what they comment on very strategically, very purposeful, and with an agenda other than seeking the truth. I take issue with that.

  107. Well Muffy. I obviously have my weak moments where I actually like Rutherford not as a blogger, but something more important – a person. That separates him from most Leftists in my book, as does Rutherford’s freedom of speech routine. He’s the only Leftist that will trade blow for blow without modification of comment I’ve met. Nonetheless, I still contend Nagic is right about Rutherford’s motives. In fact, I know Nagic is right. The Cult of Obama is a religion to these folks – they just don’t recognize it.

    Rutherford is a strange brew. One good post, and ten slobbering lovefests of Obama or PDS hypoxia, followed by a shock post where you think another person has inhabited his body (Trayvon™).

    One thing Rutherford never has been to me – boring. That and the fact Rutherford has this uncanny ability to apparently hold no grudges. In some ways, he’s a good Christian example. 🙂

  108. I hear you Muffy about the quality of comment. It’s really hard to reason with unreasonable conclusions. For instance, I find Thor so tedious, I don’t really try to debate with him. Never have. Hard to believe a guy that apparently writes for a living can’t pen a comment worth answering other than mockery.

    It’s like trying to debate some Media Matters blather. Thor reminds me of those Dimocratic “strategists” you hear in a debate on FOX News. Their entire existence is dependent upon defending Obama, even if it makes them the sacrificial lamb. Cult like and very personal.

    It’s the same tired rhetoric, the same pedantic bullshit, same tread worn propaganda lines, and same tired tactic of trying to justify failure by pointing to other failure. It couldn’t be more clear Obama is neither an intellect or qualified for high office. For instance, if Obama was the brilliant student as they claim, with a man of Obama’s immense ego we would have seen the transcripts in 2007. Clearly, Obama the ultimate, entitled affirmative action hero. And it’s clear to them too. But they are so vested in Obama, so caught up in the rhetoric, so indoctrinated with a lifetime of lying bullshit, they can’t release or admit wrong.

  109. I must say, I like the video, but I don’t like the fact that Fox News did it. It is accurate, but it inflames the acrimony of media bias. Of course, MSDNC is doing the same in the opposite direction…

  110. R, you’ll like this…

    Former Alabama congressman Artur Davis, who seconded Barack Obama’s nomination for president four years ago, says he’s leaving the Democratic Party.

    The one-time rising Democratic Party star — once described as “the Obama of Alabama” — said on his website that he is switching his voter registration to Virginia and is considering running for office as a Republican. Davis was also critical of the Obama administration, with whom he was sometimes at odds while in Congress on issues such as health care.

    “This is not Bill Clinton’s Democratic Party (and he knows that even if he can’t say it),” Davis wrote.

  111. “Tigre, I think old Rev. Al looked better when he was a lard ass. He looks gaunt now.”

    He looks rather like that other “grim, ungainly, ghastly, gaunt and ominous bird of yore,” don’t you think?

  112. I’m thinking of you and your family, dead rabbit, and i hope it works out. I’m sorry for your loss, Rutherford.

    “The whole problem is fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and the wisest people have doubts” Bertrum Russel.

    One would think that after comparing Obama’s promises, Obama’s spending, the Travylon shooting, Dartmouth, the surge, Wisconsin’s jobs trends, Elizabeth Warren, OWS, the Tea Party, and other issues with reality, such people would realize that something is wrong with their perceptive skills.

    Charity dictates that we assume they are gullible dupes willing to buy what ever their ideological master sell.

    Otherwise, they are a fanatical disease bent on destroying the country we knew and rebuilding something in their image. As what appears to be their unreported war on farms and rural folk continues, I am inclined to believe their fanaticism is dangerous to us all.

    That other site personifies fanatic. I still have hope for the liberals here.

  113. Bret Kimberlin is a bad guy and former terroristic bomber who is in the Democrat’s good graces as Jim Jones once was. He and his organization, called something like “Music for Justice” is doing everything in its power to stifle free speech. The administration has done its part by trying to get Fox discredited as a propaganda mill, and by outing some major Republican contributors.

    Kimberlins allies have gone further by getting enemies fired, and filing frivolous lawsuits. The have attacked two bloggers by swatting them. Someone from a hidden phone called the police and identified himself as the blogger who had just murdered his entire family.

    They got another blogger arrested because they claimed his continuing to write about Kimberlin was a violation of a peace order. Much like the Tea Party, the conservatives launched movement to make Kimberliln’s efforts public.

    Fox News finally mentioned Kimerlin. The rest of the media worries more about fake birther issues.

    Those people are dangerous.

  114. News from back home:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/serpent-handling-pastor-profiled-earlier-in-washington-post-dies-from-rattlesnake-bite/2012/05/29/gJQAJef5zU_story.html?hpid=z4&sub=AR

    My father, a man of few words, summed it up one day in the potato patch, when I was about fourteen:

    “Maybe they will get bit and die and won’t reproduce,” scooping the Darwin Awards concept by thirty years. LOL

    I had a confrontation with one of those cow-fuckers when I was in college – a Right Reverend Elzie Priest, as I recall. Had to do with parking. I think he bit the dust – if you will excuse the expression – too, also from a nice envenomation. As we say in the hollers, rattlesnakes will hurt you bad…

  115. Pfesser,

    As a professed Christian, it actually sends a tingle up my leg when these charlatans get burned for their abject stupidity. Look at this way, Pfesser. This is God’s way of culling the herd.

    Elzie Priest, hey?

    😆 Perfectly named too. Sounds like something out of a Cheech & Chong skit. Do you remember Sister Mary Elephant?

  116. Poolman, I don’t get your epiphany. With that powerful bloodhound-like bullshit detector of yours, you didn’t actually believe M and H were real, did you?

  117. PF, you’ve witnessed that snake tossing shit first-hand? Damn. I knew you were country, but that’s deep, deep “paddle faster, I hear banjos” country.

    I was certain that, and the “speaking in tongues” b.s. was a widespread hoax of some kind until I met people that were doing it themselves.

  118. My wife and I visited a church who’s people spoke in tongues. I would have been more impressed if they had been able to understand each other.

  119. ET –

    I didn’t actually see the snake-handling. That’s done in the church itself. In my travels I have met a (very) few of these folks; for the most part they are pretty normal.

    When I was in grade school and high school my best friend Joey and I were the resident geeks. It didn’t go that well for him since he was small in size and didn’t play sports – very important in those areas. I was reasonably proficient in basketball, pretty decent in softball and passable in football, so I was able to get by without a lot of shit from the jocks. (see Rocket Boys – you will get the picture) Anyway, Joey and I used to catch snakes of all flavors, including rattlers, and kind of use it to enhance our reputations, since most folks in the country are terrified of ANY kind of snake, but we NEVER released our death-grip behind a poisonous snake’s head. NEVER. These folks are perfectly stupid and let the damnet things crawl around their bodies ad lib.

    Sometimes they get bit and do OK, but what these goobers don’t realize is that the degree of envenomation depends entirely on the snake’s mood and whether he has used his bite recently and depleted his supply. Crotalids such as rattlers are really, really dangerous; copperheads not so much.

    They are also very tough to spot in the wild; about twenty years ago, Joe, I and another friend were looking over an area of wildfire from the previous year. As a radiologist I am trained to look for detail; while I was scanning the woodland floor I spotted a rattler. I turned another way and told my friends I saw a rattlesnake. Now both of these guys are woods-wise; Joe saw it after about a full minute, Jimmy never. It was on the end of the log he was standing on; when I told him where it was, he just about filled his britches. LOL.

    BTW, we never molested it; I figured the snake was at home; I was not.

  120. My wife and I visited a church who’s people spoke in tongues. I would have been more impressed if they had been able to understand each other.

    Again, I’ve been fighting these battles for years against the crazed, pseudo religious type. It’s at least part of the reason I left organized ‘religion.’

    Incredibly frustrating that many churches while attracting the lost, also attract the loons. It goes with the territory, I suppose. People walk into churches looking for miracles or prosperity like worship is some good luck charm like a rabbit’s foot, never understanding salvation isn’t about prosperity and wealth. Just the opposite. I find that mindset far more of an abomination that I do religious bigotry.

    It shows such a lack of understanding of Christian faith, that it must be straight out of the gates of hell. Give the devil his due, so to speak.

    Pfesser, I can appreciate your contrary opinion more than you might realize. I mean, I simply have no answer for something like this, other than to hide my head in my hands:

  121. “for the most part they are pretty normal.”

    Well other than speaking tongues and throwing snakes at each other on Sundays, pretty normal I’m sure. 😆

    I mean, Jeff Dahmer was pretty normal except for the killing, storing of body parts and cannibalism thing too. 😆

    Sorry. That struck me as pretty funny.

    James, that was pretty damn funny “ha-ha” funny.

  122. Tex –

    I don’t really have too much problem with these snake-handler folks; it’s going to die out in a relatively short period of time. Exposure to the bright sunlight of national/worldwide scrutiny will drive them out of business. It is kind of embarrassing though, because when I tell people I am from WV, they immediately conjure up images like these. Unfortunately, the biggest problem in WV is just plain old garden-variety corruption, not snake-handlers.

    My wife and I just finished watching “Hatfields and McCoys.” I was really heartened by the way these families were portrayed – as the tragic products of a very rough time. Mr. Hatfield, by the way, was a very prosperous timber-man from West Virginia; it is said that there were thousands at his funeral.

    A local southern WV fellow named Billy Edd Wheeler is a playwright who made millions on a play about the Hatfields/McCoys; it has played continuously since the ‘sixties at the Cliffside Outdoor Amphitheatre in Beckley, WV. I had seen it at least a dozen times since I was a boy, but I never really had the whole story until last night. Good stuff; sympathetic but apparently very accurate, right to the last brutal detail. Bad, bad times.

  123. I love that Basketball Jones song.

    My anthropology teacher in college lived among the snake-handlers of Southern Appalachia. He showed us a lot of footage of the practice and wrote a book on snake handling and also one on fire-handling.

    There were easily as weird or weirder rituals found among other peoples – one culture I recall practiced a shocking sexual rite of passage involving a chicken. :shocked:

    I just remembered the class was called “Culture and Personality.” I loved that class.

    True story – one time I sniffed around an organization that promised the gift of speaking in tongues. I won’t mention the organization, it doesn’t matter. Anyway, I persuaded a guy I knew who had taken the initiation-type class (pretty expensive as I recall – dead giveaway) and he seemed to me to have taken some kind of oath of silence on the subject of speaking in tongues. But I got it out of him. Seems that he was instructed to repeat the phrase “I rode a Honda” over and over again while the others laid hands on him. Some body rocking and rolling eyes ensued and eventually the phrase began to run together and get all mushy.

    PFesser, did you well up when Jonse asked his father if he would have let him drown?

    ~~~

    i>I got a bassetball jones oh baby ooh-oo ooh.

  124. Both you and Muffy have mentioned this show now, Pfesser. Guess I’m going to need to make time and watch it. Those are generally my kind of shows.

    This crap at the movie theater is so bad, it’s not worth the discount movie theaters, much less $9.00 a ticket.

    I think of two things when I think of West Virginia: (1) Coal and (2) Robert Byrd.

  125. muffy –
    “PFesser, did you well up when Jonse asked his father if he would have let him drown?”

    I was a little confused by that part. Did Anse plan to shoot Jonse? If so, what did the drowning part have to do with his not shooting?

    There are a couple of mistakes in the movie also. There is one scene which is supposed to take place around New Year’s, but there are green leaves on the trees. Also the Big Sandy is a lot bigger than the little creek depicted in the show. Couple of others.

  126. I blew every one of those html tags. I should just steer clear.

    Anyway some day I’ll say more about Fat Granny but suffice to say that it’s amazing how consistently on message that woman is.

  127. Barack Obama and Elizabeth Warren Weasel, and the Party of Hollow Braggarts

    This article and accompanying video say oodles about Thor’s claims of great character of the Dimocratic machine of Massachusetts. Make sure to watch the 4 minute video to get a clear indicator of just how weaselly and bankrupt the Dimocratic party really is…

    Ever noticed these Dimocrats all sound the same? The boilerplated message? There must be a Journolist for politicians too. Always about the “middle class.” 🙄 Well, what exactly has Mr. Obama done for the undefined “middle class”? And his claims he knows Judaism better than any other President ever? 😆

    http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/05/31/barack-obama-and-elizabeth-warren-and-the-party-of-hollow-braggarts/

  128. Fitting of this pretzel post, I thought I would provide a demonstration of Dimocratic pretzel logic in action. It’s almost humorous to watch these leftists twist themselves into knots to justify their solutions. This is standard Fat Granny nag fare – but from a sitting Congresswoman.

    We’re in the best of hands.

    ———-

    Rep. Barbara Lee took to the floor of Congress to denounce the so-called “war on women.” The latest battle in that “war” is a House initiative to ban abortions based on sex selection. The initiative is a reaction to Live Action’s undercover video captured at a Planned Parenthood mill in Austin, TX, in which a PP staffer enthusiastically assists a woman claiming to be pursuing an abortion because she wants a boy but has found out that the child she is carrying is a girl. The PP staffer also coaches the woman in defrauding Medicare. Planned Parenthood claims that the staffer has since been fired.

    Incredibly, Rep. Lee sees an effort to save baby girls from being aborted solely because they are girls as a part of the “Republican war on women.”

    Trying to allow baby girls to be born is now waging war on women? ~ Bryan Preston

    Yes, yes it is Bryan it the mind of the storm trooping Dimocratic party. 😈

  129. “Did Anse plan to shoot Jonse? If so, what did the drowning part have to do with his not shooting?

    I think yes, he was of a mind to shoot him. I think the point of the question Jonse asked his father was – knowing what they know now, would Anderson have killed his son way back then in hopes of avoiding all that happened after. I think Jonse framed his innocence in such a way that Anderson saw straight and didn’t shoot him.

    There were basically 3 (maybe 4 if you include the land dispute) events that triggered all that drama and death, right? Starting with Uncle Jim murdering the McCoy man – remember what Anderson said to his wife about Uncle Jim’s death all those years later? That he always thought he might have to kill him himself?

  130. Here’s another in a list of “great” Dimocratic accomplishment over the last 3 1/2 years of BongoWeaselVision that is not getting near enough attention.

    Wait until this thing implodes….the economy is teetering as we speak, gang:

  131. “For instance, I find Thor so tedious, I don’t really try to debate with him. Never have. Hard to believe a guy that apparently writes for a living can’t pen a comment worth answering other than mockery.” – Tex

    Oh, you definitely try. You’re just not very good at it.

    Here’s your comment you’ve been begging for where you compare my father (a man you have never seen, talked to or even passed in the street) to a man charged with aiding the enemy.

    “Everybody’s daddy was a WWII Vet. Private Bradley Manning of his day.”

    Oh yeah, and I go to work to provide for my family, not to dodge your lame attempts at intimidation and bullying.

  132. “Incredibly, Rep. Lee sees an effort to save baby girls from being aborted solely because they are girls as a part of the “Republican war on women.” “

    Isn’t that something?

  133. Speaking of not very good at, I read your poetry entry. 😈

    Poor, poor pitiful Thor. Drinking Four Bucks in Tacoma. Penning poetry, rejected like Obama.

  134. Speaking of twisted, Muffy. Wait until you get a gander of Thor’s future response about Jesus and his justification of gender selection from our resident poet and his undying support of Planned Parenthood.

    This ought to be rich.

    It’s really hard to be good at debate when there is no debate. 😀 He’ll probably scan the net for some egregious back alley by a Republican as response.

  135. Those snake handling Pentecostals always bothered me. Talk about “testing” the Lord! I’m fond of snakes, but I respect their characteristics. I’ve certainly had many rattlesnake experiences living in the SW. I trust them more than some of the two-legged serpents I’ve come to know.

    Tongues is a whole different thing. Praying in the spirit has it’s place and was Paul’s preferred way to pray. Anyone who has read the book of Acts and can understand it will have a better grasp of that gift. And it is a gift.

    Like all things of faith, there is much misinformation and misunderstanding. Since faith is a personal thing, it will be unique and its expression will vary from one individual to another.

    And then of course, there are the apes and lemmings always interspersed among the sheep. The tares that grow along with the wheat, as the parable claims.

  136. poolDude –

    My wife and I are sort of honorary members of a local Pentecostal church. Really, really good folks. Practice good works, do not proselytize, handle snakes or speak in tongues. Very traditional old-school, the women do not wear makeup or cut their hair. They have a lot of fun and get together on a regular basis. White folks AND black folks in the congregation. Just really good people.

    I ran across one of those snake-ers several years ago. They also drink “poisons” – generally strychnine or something like it. A little larceny is not above them, either. They will take hydrochloric acid (poisonous) and lye (sodium hydroxide – also very poisonous) and MIX THEM and drink it.

    Any chemists here? Yep, it makes salt-water – completely benign.

    I told the guy to let me mix him up a little potion and we’d see how it went. He turned me down. That was in my college days; I don’t provoke these folks much nowadays. LOL.

  137. Hey PFesser. Pentecostals speak in tongues. Your group probably reserves it for the proper time and place, unlike many of the celebrity preachers we have experienced on the teevee. It is probably one the most misunderstood and abused gift of the Spirit in our modern day.

  138. NaOH(aq) + HCl(aq) → NaCl(aq) + H2O(l)) 🙂

    Clever. Wonder when these backwater types figured that out by accident?

    I’m “aroma cedared” out. It smelled so good the first 20 boards or so while mitering. I don’t know if I like this, or not. The house kind of smells like a gerbil cage.

    I hope these damn doors mask the smell to a degree, or there will be hell to pay from three ornery women who all show up tomorrow, and dearly love to have a good time at my expense and are absolutely brutal when together.

    And why is when I painted a room and ask my wife what the color reminded her off, her reply was “shrimp.” But when she comes home with the same colored comforter, it’s called “salmon” and really pretty?

  139. Poolman,

    If you can convince those two Ron Paul “lawn girls” to mow my lawn (while I ogle their lawn), you’ve got my enthusiastic vote. 😈

  140. You know the old adage, “The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence”? The inference is that sometimes it just appears greener from your present perspective, right? In this case I think it might really be a tad greener. 😀 At least worth a closer observation, for sure.

    I don’t think those gals have ever pushed a lawn mower, Tex. Not that they couldn’t handle one, it just wouldn’t seem to me to be their forte. I have been known to be wrong on occassion, though.

  141. How fucking disgusting. Killing babies because they are female. Oh, but it’s the mother’s body we are told. Meanwhile, my son is having issues because he has a completly different blood type! He’s so seperate from my wife’s body that my wife’s antibodies see him as a foreign entity.

    I almost respect the Pfessor type of baby killers. Social Darwinism without appology. Its the Rutherford’s of the world that kill me with the woman’s body bull shit. As if her body doesn’t go through hell nursing and waking up once every two hours after he is born. Viable my ass, a baby dies quickly if it is neglected.

  142. “or there will be hell to pay from three ornery women who all show up tomorrow, and dearly love to have a good time at my expense and are absolutely brutal when together.”

    Just carve one board into a paddle and tell them that you don’t take any crap. Then grin menacingly. See what they say. LOL.

  143. Can you imagine Rutherford snarling and growling on bath salts. Still wouldn’t really pose much a threat but funny as fuck. Life of the party.

  144. I’m glad you liked my comment on 161. I was hoping it would amuse someone.

    I’m sorry for your loss too Rutherford. As you write, death is a bitch. it is the gift that keeps giving for years.

    My wife and I are hoping for the best, rabbit.

  145. Rutherford, are you a bath salt snorter? 😆

    Speaking of wing nuts being concerned, I can’t imagine why we should be…

    http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/jobs-preview-edge-barely-acceptable-195206594.html

    followed by…

    That model that brilliant authors like Thor and Graychin wished for America to follow…

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9301270/Spain-faces-total-emergency-as-fear-grips-markets.html

    I’m beginning to be of the opinion, nobody can be this grossly incompetent – even Obama. So I must speculate that when Obama talked of transformation, it was his intent to follow his sperm donor daddy’s wishes of destroying colonial America.

  146. OH, YES WE CAN!

    Time Bomb? Banks Pressured to Buy Government Debt

    US and European regulators are essentially forcing banks to buy up their own government’s debt—a move that could end up making the debt crisis even worse…

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/47633576

    What an outstanding group of leaders we have in Obama Inc.. We’re in the best of hands!

    What was it you were saying again Rutherford about wing nuts?

  147. ROTFLMAO……
    Know who cuts the grass on Walton’s Mountain?

    Lawn Boy
    thought I’d stop in from M&H

  148. How bold is this?

    Obama spokesman: Obama has been a “responsible steward” of the economy & will produce a SURPLUS if given 4 more years.

  149. Whoever is writing at M&H does not appear to be the same person who started the blog. I can’t say exactly what is different but the style is not the same. I was wondering if you can sell a blog name and not disclose that information. Several things changed a year or so ago. The blog could be a front for an organization under the guise of two grannies.

    @ Muffy #167 that explains what James said in #161. Hilarious 😆 I remember a chant from childhood that was used in some initiation ritual that sounded like “Oh Wa Ta Goo Siam” and came to find out what was being said was “Oh what a goose I am”.

  150. “Buwahaahahahahhaha. I think I’ll go over and harass them some more for my health. Better than exercise.”

    I gotta tell you: it is SO hard to refrain from poking a stick through the cage at folks sometimes – especially folks who, no matter what kind of contrary point is made, just keep on keepin’ on as if nobody said anything. Sometimes you just poke that stick out of sheer frustration…

    Go get’m Tex; I am still trying to be good, but in the face of such inanity as seen elsewhere-that-shall-not-be-named, it is very, very hard.

    I don’t think that there is any question any more that said innominate place is a mildly clever shill for the DNC or somesuch. It would be possible under special circumstances to force the revelation of the granny string-pullers’ identities. Hmmm………..

  151. ““Oh Wa Ta Goo Siam” and came to find out what was being said was “Oh what a goose I am”.”

    When I was in grade school, we used to try to get the little girls to look down inside their shirts and spell “attic.”

  152. How bold is this?

    Obama spokesman: Obama has been a “responsible steward” of the economy & will produce a SURPLUS if given 4 more years

    😆 Sometimes the claims are so ridiculous, all you can do is read them and laugh.

    Nagic, now to be fair, we are only in our “third recovery summer.” 😀 Saw today where growth was a staggering 1.9%. Obama is dragging out his magic carpet soon!

  153. I took your good advice, Pfesser. Somebody named Jim “Ronald” McDonald took me to task about the deficit not really being Obama’s fault but Bush’s fault, and then for good measure threw out David Stockman as proof.

    I always love it when Leftists do this. It’s like self-inflicted gun shot wound.

    You remind them David Stockman was committed to the doctrine of supply-side economics working under then President Ronald Reagan, and also he assisted the approval of the “Reagan Budget”, and you can literally hear the air go out of the room.

  154. I just had a good workout at Grannies. Bitch slapped about three dolts, and added a swift kick in the ass benevolently. Feel better already. 🙂

    Those people are so inane, they make Thor sound competent.

  155. My wife and I visited a church who’s people spoke in tongues. I would have been more impressed if they had been able to understand each other.

    That’s one of the funniest things I’ve read in a long time.

  156. Rutherford, you a soda fan? If I remember, you like the occasional Coke.

    What do you think of Bloomberg’s ban on 20oz Snapple? 😆

    I contend that one of the biggest mistakes that nobody ever talks about is not creating a debate to move Wall Street right out of Manhattan. Put it in Omaha, NE, or some place like that. The crooks from Europe can fly there which will make it real difficult to cut and run.

    For one thing, I’ll bet 50% of the corruption would immediately disappear over night.

  157. Whoever is writing at M&H does not appear to be the same person who started the blog. I can’t say exactly what is different but the style is not the same.

    I agree. There’s not much new or clever either. Now they’re trying to sell cookbooks to raise money. 😆 With no recipes yet. 😆 😆

    The pat answer from the idol worshipers is, “I can’t do it right now, but I would like to purchase one! Great idea!” Cheap toads up and disappear when their own money is being asked for.

  158. Got to admit fellow antiObamaites. I have been very impressed with Romney’s campaign so far. Let’s hope Romney keeps this up.

    ———

    These Aren’t Your Father’s Republicans

    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2012/05/these-arent-your-fathers-republicans.php
    ———

    Beat the Chicago thugs at their own game. This ain’t McCain, and between punching back twice as hard and Obama’s disastrous record and clear and present danger, I’m starting to like how this is trending nationally.

    Counter punch to the nuts.

    PAYBACK!!! These the Republicans I’VE BEEN WAITING FOR.

  159. I must say, I like the video, but I don’t like the fact that Fox News did it. It is accurate, but it inflames the acrimony of media bias. Of course, MSDNC is doing the same in the opposite direction…

    Oh Gorilla please save it for someone dumb enough to buy it. There is no shock at all that Fox “News” created this ad.

    Here’s the bottom line. I have NO problem with Fox playing this video at every commercial break in their ultra partisan prime time line up. If they play it during the day, that’s where I draw the line.

    MSNBC has NOTHING approaching this and to suggest they do shows you never watch the network or you’re just a liar. The closest MSNBC comes to this are their “Lean Forward” ads which are not three minutes long and don’t tear down specific politicians. They feature several of the MSNBC hosts voicing their political views in 30 to 60 seconds.

    Now that Fox has thrown down the gauntlet, I hope MSNBC responds in kind … but they won’t because they actually DO want to maintain the smallest shred of credibility. Fox gave that up long ago and doesn’t give a damn.

  160. You remind them David Stockman was committed to the doctrine of supply-side economics working under then President Ronald Reagan

    You don’t get it. It’s Stockman’s GOP admin background that makes his current critique of conservative economic ideas sting all the more.

  161. I was wondering if you can sell a blog name and not disclose that information.

    I think you can do just about anything on the net and not disclose anything. The anonymity protects all sorts of “sins”.

    Let’s face it, there is nothing to stop me from sending my id and password to Tex and tell him “have at it”. Suddenly The Rutherford Lawson Blog becomes a conservative screed.

    Of course Tex would have a darn hard time signing each post “Respectfully, Rutherford”. It would be more like “F*ck you, Rutherford”.

    Raji, that would be your tip-off that the blog changed hands. 🙂

  162. It is totally BEYOND me how we can be concerned with selling big gulps when we have no problem selling carcinogens in a tube (cigarettes for those missing my point).

    I think Bloomberg lost his marbles on this one. Besides, if I want to be a fat unhealthy death-warmed-over dude, that’s my business.

    Libertarians unite!

    Elect Ron Paul!

    Oh God I need to get to bed … I’ve been possessed by Poolman.

  163. Thanks to those who offered their condolences. My sorta-mother-in-law was 84 and lived a full productive life.

    I did finally get clarity on one thing today. I will not be cremated. I had waffled on the idea for the past eight years ever since my mother was cremated. There was something about seeing “Grandma Ida” reduced to a small box today that really f*cked with my head. Yes I know the phrase “ashes to ashes dust to dust”. And yes I know the body decomposes in the coffin in short order, but seeing that small box just makes me feel the person disappeared. It is disorienting. I prefer to picture a whole body in that coffin and then let nature take its course.

    To my surprise, my wife revealed that cremation sorta creeped her out. I was happy to hear it since I know a coffin is more expensive and I don’t need her blowing the bank account disposing of me but still … spend the extra moola and bury me in my overalls.

    Bury me in my overalls,
    Don’t use my gabardines,
    Bury me in my overalls
    Or in my beat-up jeans.
    Give my suit to Uncle Jake,
    He can wear it at my wake,
    And bury me in my overalls.

    The undertaker will get my dough,
    The grave will get my bones,
    And what is left will have to go
    For one of those granite stones,
    But this suit cost me two weeks pay
    So let it live another day,
    And bury me in my overalls.

    The grave it is a quiet place,
    There is no labor there,
    And I will rest more easy
    In the clothes I always wear.
    This suit was made for warmer climes,
    Holidays and happy times,
    So bury me in my overalls.

    I gave a hand to clear the land
    And make the cities rise,
    I helped to bring the harvest in
    And lay the railroad ties.
    I boomed about from east to west,
    It’s time I had a little rest,
    So bury me in my overalls.

    And when I get to heaven
    Where they tally work and sin,
    They’ll open up those pearly gates
    And holler, “Come on in!
    A workin stiff like you, we know,
    Has had his share of Hell below,
    So come to glory in your overalls!”

  164. So R, how doyou feel about Obama and the Dems in general supporting abortion based on the sex of the baby?

    Here’s you “war on women”…

  165. That’s not what they said. They said they were not going to get involved in the argument of WHY a woman wanted an abortion.

    Also, as you know, this whole thing is a put-up deal. The anti-abortionists stay up nights trying to figure out some kind of sting operation that will put the clinics/patients in compromising positions and make them look bad. This is one.

    The bottom line is that the pro-lifers want to get rid of all abortions and are willing to use any means – fair or unfair – to do so, and that’s what they have done here.

    Neither Obama nor anyone else is “supporting abortion.” They – and I – support the woman’s right to make her own decision, based on circumstances that she alone knows. Period.

  166. Tex – I just peeked in at the blog-which-shall-not-be-named.

    God what a wasteland. Just not worth the time these days…

  167. Rutherford, one thing about letting nature take its course is that our skeletons survive for years, maybe thousands of years under the right conditions. A few chosen people might end up in future museums.

    Yes, what about this non-radical president? Obama and his allies support the concept of abortion-based sex selection often at females’ expense.

    When he was in the Illinois state legislature, he supported a bill which allowed doctors to let surviving aborted babies die. A nurse reported it took two hours for one such baby to die.

    Thus, by extension, we can say as some of his supporters did that if the president killed Osama bin ladin Obama is a baby killer who is waging a war against women.

    Hi UAW tradesman. I was thinking about you. I hope you post again.

    As I repeated ad nauseum, H&M became a surrogate for one of my service adventures. Veterans of real combat might jump if a car backfires. They were my backfiring car. They were like a video game which let me figuratively kill people by making them too mad to come out and play.

    To my mind, NOP betrayed me as my officers did .Its not healthy to become emotional over words on a screen, and until I know I would not do to her what I did to my NCOIC that sewer can spin what it wants. I served my time.

    “But I’m not crazy, I’m just a little unwell
    I know right now you can’t tell
    But stay awhile, and maybe then you’ll see
    A different side of me.” Matchbox 20

  168. I am pro- choice too, but that sting operation is only one sign some abortions are a form of sex selection. Asian-Americans are as guilty as anyone. During the debate over late-term abortions a decade or more ago, and abortionist estimated at least 5,000 late term abortions were done each year. Sex selection is also a minority operation.

    I think the pro -abortion people are behaving with the same mind set as the NRA. Any law restricting gun ownership or abortion is a nose under the tent which would ultimately destroy the right to own a gun or to get an abortion.

  169. James, I don’t deny that there are som ABs performed for sex-selection, but this sting operation in my opinion does not support it, since the “patient” was a plant from the beginning. It was SHE who brought up the sex-selection meme, not the clerk.

    Probably the clerk shouldn’t have supported her, but hell – these people – patients, nurses, clerks and patients – are under such constant attack that they naturally all huddle together and support each other.

    You shouldn’t have to conduct business with one eye always open for a ringer with an agenda posing as a patient.

  170. I partly disagree. Sting operations only reveal isolated cases as you write, and it may be wrong to extrapolate one incident to the entire group. However, where there’s smoke there’s fire, and if it happened once, it probably is happening again. Yes, the operation was entrapment as stings are.

    I heard part of the tape. The clerk hinted that such things had been done before. She told the client how to lie and get a sonogram to determine the baby’s sex. The clerk also said she has four children and aborted two others. They shared a good laugh.

    Yes the client was a plant, but the clerk chose to help her use abortion as sex selection. Yes, they are under attack, and they probably huddle and support each other, but if the clerk thought choosing a baby’s sex through abortion was wrong, she should have said so in a supportive way and offered other options like adoption.

    The sting was no different than when the man who could have registered to vote as Eric Holder. Now, Florida has discovered at least 2,700 non-citizen registered voters. Stings dramatize.

    Maybe you shouldn’t have to conduct business with one eye open for a ringer with an agenda, but in today’s world, it is reality and
    people should behave as if they are under constant scrutiny.

  171. Rutherford, she was your MIL according to common law in some states they were married if they were together over seven years. I am sorry for your loss. I have mixed feelings about funerals as I think a funeral should be a celebration of one’s life and not a period of mourning therefore I am very selective of one’s I will attend.

    I prefer the thought of cremation over laying in a box for how knows long. With today’s sealed coffins and embalming, as James said it will be a long time before you get to “ashes to ashes dust to dust”. Now you can go the green route which is no embalming, either no coffin or just a plain pine box. With cremation, you can have your ashes scattered most anywhere.

  172. Come Pfesser. You claim you are a man seeking truth and I take you at your word. These PP stings have simply demonstrated what clear thinking Americans have known all these years.

    Planned Parenthood is an abortion mill, posing under the guise providing women’s health care on the taxpayer dole. I don’t care whether abortions are only 3% of their business or 5% of their business, one quick gaze through their balance sheet, and you quickly realize abortions anywhere from 30-50% of their income stream. It’s a money maker. Abortion is Planned Parenthood’s bell cow and always has been from it macabre beginnings of eugenics.

    The only reason this assistant at Planned Parenthood was fired is because she was caught.

    I would think even a Libertarian type like you would have serious misgivings that we have an involuntary taxpayer funded organization to the tune of $500MM a year providing eugenics, just like Communist China.

    And there is no denying in now.

    P.S. – I left a comment at Grannies and discovered I’d been booted for the eight time. 😆 Guess I was a little too humiliating for their tastes yesterday. I’ll reset this weekend to kick them some more.

  173. And one other thing not directed at anyone in particular. I keep hearing Planned Parenthood state that not one dime of federal dollars goes to providing abortion.

    Exactly how are we to verify that? I’m supposed to suspend disbelief about an organization that has been busted dozens of times now on video as honest in their allocation?

    Pffft…

    An incredibly evil organization. God help us for allowing this to go on.

  174. Rutherford, you’re wrong about Stockman and here is why.

    He’s still a proponent of supply-side economics. He can’t deny that because he was one of the architects. Can’t play on my side of the fence and use Stockman as expert witnesss without admitting your deep convictions of “trickle down” doesn’t work is baloney too.

    Either Stockman gets it, or he doesn’t. His real complaint isn’t taxes but cutting taxes without addressing cutting entitlements. I willingly admit until Paul Ryan, Republicans have been equally as gutless as leftists to admitting the obvious. Entitlements are going to have to be cut and means tested for it to survive.

    But what you guys from the left always conveniently forget is Stockman was fired in disgrace by Reagan and his cabinet. Persona non grata, buddy. Stockman is openly hostile to Republicans as he was scalded by Republicans, and has been for over 25 years.

  175. “Sting operations only reveal isolated cases as you write, and it may be wrong to extrapolate one incident to the entire group.”

    It doesn’t “reveal” anything. It CREATED a case that did not exist before, and that is being used to extrapolate and generalize, because that was the intent to begin with. They created one case and it can be logically extrapolated to, well, one case – that one.

    This entire thing is a creation of the anti-abortionists. I’m sure Planned Parenthood has aborted before – and will again – women who are doing it for sex-selection, but that is the WOMAN’s reason – not their’s.

    Sorry – I’d say nice try, but it’s not even that. It was a sophomoric attempt and is I believe viewed as such, and proves nothing except that these people will stop at nothing to promote their agenda. Personally, I think that they, themselves, are the best argument that abortion is a good thing.

    As for using my tax money to fund abortions, I think it is just fine; you may not. I have a greater aversion to using it to kill adults in other countries who have established lives, spouses and families of their own and people who depend on them and would grieve their loss. Of course, my government makes that decision for me without asking my permission – just like their funding of Planned Parenthood. Stop them from doing the former and then we can talk about the latter.

  176. Hey Thor baby! Rutherford, my old friend!

    Why don’t you two add this to your list of Mr. Moderate Obama’s Keynesian accomplishments. Here’s what $862,000,000,000.00 of Obama stash buys you.

    NOTHING. And that’s with fudged unemployment numbers.

    Doing a great job, Brownie!

  177. It is silly to try to decide which dollar is used for which application. The first thing you learn in B school is that money is fungible. A dollar that goes into PP can be assumed to be used for ALL its services: family planning, abortion, women’s health. As long as it provides abortion services you may assume that your money goes for that purpose, just like my taxes go to kill people in Iraq and Afghanistan – which I oppose. You can’t separate one from the other.

  178. Craig, who had his own problems with that other site sent an e mail which I just read. Someone over there sent him a comment from the site though he has been gone for eight months.

    I agree about Stockman. An ugly little truth is that no matter what we do about spending and taxation, we will suffer. So many people are dependent on government money that if the economy contracts until revenues match expenditures, pain will be extreme. Greece, Spain and several other European countries seduced by free lunches are hurting now, and the belt tightening has hardly begun.

    We either willingly face it now, or circumstances will force us into a new way of living.

  179. In G’s video at 225, I see a few definite problems. According to the video, 15 faceless bureaucrats will be making rationing decisions. Now what I want to know is, without faces, how will they communicate those decisions? How will they be able to read the necessary info to make these decisions? How will they be able to smell when they have really bad body odor?

    And most importantly, why is that doctor just standing there talking about Obamacare when 15 desperate people are in need of face transplants. He needs to get to work!

  180. Regarding the Planned Parenthood video, I don’t believe any of these expose videos anymore. Many in the past were proven to be manipulated or hoaxes.

    The video is unnecessary anyway. “Gendercide” is disgusting. There should be both ethics rules within the medical profession that forbid it and I’m not against legislation that addresses it.

    The video which I stopped watching after about a minute is simply a smear campaign against PP and not a serious video addressing the issue and its potential remedies.

  181. just like my taxes go to kill people in Iraq and Afghanistan – which I oppose. You can’t separate one from the other.

    Pretty specious analogy, if you ask me, Pfesser. I’m going to keep this on the up and and up so you and I don’t go sideways again, as it gets ugly when we butt heads. 😉

    But the only way your analogy holds is you truly believe our tax dollars are going over with the intent of randomly and indiscriminately using it to kill innocent adults in other countries who have established lives, spouses and families of their own and people who depend on them and would grieve their loss.

    I can’t believe we’d be losing thousands of soldiers and leaving their own grieving families if that was our purpose. Seems to me, we go out or way in fact, to prevent such.

    We could lay waste to Afghanistan and Iraq and never lose a man if we so chose.

  182. So R, how doyou feel about Obama and the Dems in general supporting abortion based on the sex of the baby?

    Stupid question. You take one statement from a House representative and extrapolate it to the Dem party and particularly Obama. I like your “in general” clause. WTF does that mean? Is that your wiggle room for stating an out and out lie?

    Show me the link of Obama saying he supports gender-selection abortions.

  183. Many in the past were proven to be manipulated or hoaxes.

    Really? I assume you can back up that claim? Exactly how are you conducting a hoax with obvious willing participants happy to oblige your wishes?

    Our federal government does this all the time with sting operations, do they not? How do you think we are busting these sudden jihadi syndrome types?

  184. Why would it not follow Obama would support gender-selection abortions, Rutherford?

    Obama’s record clearly demonstrates he wants absolutely no restriction on abortion, including babies who survive late-term abortion. Doesn’t get more radical than that.

    On March 30, 2001, Obama was the only Illinois senator who rose to speak against a bill that would have protected babies who survived late term labor-induced abortion.

  185. “But the only way your analogy holds is you truly believe our tax dollars are going over with the intent of randomly and indiscriminately using it to kill innocent adults in other countries who have established lives, spouses and families of their own and people who depend on them and would grieve their loss.”

    Doesn’t have to be random and indiscriminate. The effect is the same: they are still dead, maimed, orphan, homeless, hungry, ad infinitum – because of what our government has done. There is no escaping that. I believe that we should not be there to begin with; civilian deaths are always sad, but in this case completely unjustified, IMHO – as are the deaths and maimings of our own men/women soldiers.

    But all that aside, that wasn’t the point. The point is that the govt spends money all the time on things that a great number of its citizens oppose – sometimes a MAJORITY oppose. PP is no different, and I would say, pretty far down the list for de-funding, in most people’s estimation.

    Correction: previous post I said “their’s.” Should be “theirs” I think.

    Appreciate the attempt to remain civil on a topic where we vehemently disagree. I’ll try to keep it cool as well.

  186. Of course Tex would have a darn hard time signing each post “Respectfully, Rutherford”. It would be more like “F*ck you, Rutherford”.

    😆 You cut me to the quick. Surely, you think I could come up with something more shall we say sacrosanct than that for old times sake?

    One thing for sure. Raji wouldn’t be contemplating somebody had taken over your blog. 😆

  187. I have mixed feelings about funerals as I think a funeral should be a celebration of one’s life and not a period of mourning therefore I am very selective of one’s I will attend.

    The problem I have had with funerals is I find they are almost always a mixture of comfort and extortion on the part of the minister. On the one hand, “your loved one has attained eternal life”. Very comforting. On the other hand, “Jesus said the only way to God is through me” or some such thing as that. Better believe or you won’t see your loved one ever again. That’s the extortion part.

    This message was delivered quite pointedly yesterday as my MIL, perhaps because she was so weak, could not remember if or when she had been baptized so she requested that the minister baptize her before she died. The message could not have been clearer. She needed to hedge her bets because no matter how noble a woman she might have been, without this declarative ceremony professing her faith in Jesus, she might be doomed.

    I’m almost beyond getting angry about it anymore … it’s just very sad. But rather than stand there and stew in my own juices, I turned the minister switch to the “off” position, and concentrated on my memories of her. While everyone else spent more time hearing about Jesus than hearing about her, I was focused on the person we were there to pay tribute to. THAT brought me private comfort and a tear to my eye.

  188. Rutherford –

    I’m with you on the extortion part. At my mother’s funeral in 1995 the damned preacher spent almost the whole time explaining why we all needed to be “saved,” and hardly a word about the good woman in the casket.

    I came within a pea of standing up and asking him to get on topic, and I mean within seconds of doing it. If it hadn’t been for embarrassing my family, I surely would have – I haven’t been that irritated in a very long time.

  189. The effect is the same: they are still dead, maimed, orphan, homeless, hungry, ad infinitum – because of what our government has done. There is no escaping that. I believe that we should not be there to begin with; civilian deaths are always sad, but in this case completely unjustified, IMHO – as are the deaths and maimings of our own men/women soldiers.

    True, they are just as dead and history may indeed prove Afghanistan and Iraq wasted wars. But our intent was not to kill innocent civilians. If you’re going to use that rationality, then there is never legitimate war. Ever. Because in war, innocent people are going to get killed. Speaking of extrapolation, if I carry your logic further, somebody like Harry Truman was a mass murderer, as he did lay waste to two large Japanese cities and virtually all of them civilian. And I don’t believe that, because ultimately Truman’s decision saved millions of lives, then and now. Even the statistics from that day forward until today prove that.

    I don’t see the analogy, Pfesser. And I don’t think the intent equates. The only point where I will agree with you, and now I’m talking about the brutal harsh reality of strictly monetary, no doubt on a cost savings benefit, abortion rational. But are we to now simply base money as our most important attribute? I don’t believe in the survival of the fittest, because if we allow ourselves to become like that, we are no more evolved that the jungle. It is what separates us from the rest of the creatures on earth.

    See Pfesser. This is why I can’t be a Libertarian. Forgetting the religious aspect for the moment, I am completely convinced abortion takes away our humanity. It puts us on the slippery slope. It cheapens life. It makes everything too convenient and only based on want and desire. It’s legality is based on lies. Roe v. Wade was sold on a basket of lives – the most egregious being the assurance of every child wanted. That hasn’t happened – if you look around and your fair in your observation, our culture is coarsened.

    And that’s not a healthy future for your kids or my kids.

  190. On abortion, personally, for my family, abortion is never right and not an option. For the nation, I believe abortion should be a choice defined by the same way we determine death. A person is dead when they are determined to be brain dead. My understanding is they can detect the first bit of brain activity at the 3rd month. I would allow for abortion up to this point.

    From there I would GREATLY restrict it to extraordinary circumstances. Life is life, we either protect it all or we do not. I cannot accept that geography, ie inside the mom and outside the mom, is a determination if the child is considered alive.

    We have had children survive being born in the 5th month. Anything past this point is murder pure and simple. There are two parties to consider in a pregnancy, the mother and the unborn child. As it stands now no one is defending the rights of the unborn child, and that needs to change.

  191. you are fair…

    Gad. Got’s to go. You guys have a good day.

    And Rutherford. If you ever bequeath me your blog, I will promise upon your scattered ashes that I will pay a more appropriate tribute to our founder than an ‘F’ bomb. 😈

  192. “Craig, who had his own problems with that other site sent an e mail which I just read. Someone over there sent him a comment from the site though he has been gone for eight months.”

    No comprendo.

    And???

  193. We could lay waste to Afghanistan and Iraq and never lose a man if we so chose.

    Too late. Besides, those people ARE men… and women… and kids…

    Just don’t try to convince me you’re pro-life. **GUFFAW**

  194. Tex –

    I respect your opinion on abortion; I think we just have a fundamentally different take on it, and I believe that probably lies in our very differing opinions on fetal “life.”

    I think it is a process, a continuum, beginning as a clump of cells and ending up as a human, with no point in between where there is a clear transition from one to the other, which means you have to make a somewhat arbitrary judgment and then make your rules governing when ABs are OK and when they are not. I think your position is that the “life” point begins very, very early. Correct me if I’m wrong there…

    I see your point about the coarsening of culture and the potential for abuse that its availability foments. However, to my POV it is somewhat like Prohibition: it seems like a good idea to outlaw it, but just like Prohibition, we have already done that – remember, there was a time when abortions were VERY hard to get – and we have a very good idea what the landscape would be like if we did it again. I don’t want to go back to those days – ever. To my mind the cure is far, far worse than the disease.

  195. I’m with you on the extortion part. At my mother’s funeral in 1995 the damned preacher spent almost the whole time explaining why we all needed to be “saved,” and hardly a word about the good woman in the casket.

    The wisest man who ever lived once said:
    There is a time for everything,
    and a season for every activity under the heavens:

    a time to be born and a time to die,
    a time to plant and a time to uproot,
    a time to kill and a time to heal,
    a time to tear down and a time to build,
    a time to weep and a time to laugh,
    a time to mourn and a time to dance,
    a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
    a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing,
    a time to search and a time to give up,
    a time to keep and a time to throw away,
    a time to tear and a time to mend,
    a time to be silent and a time to speak,
    a time to love and a time to hate,
    a time for war and a time for peace.

    A fine line between providing hope and comfort, and coming across as offensive. It may surprise you atheists, agnostics, pagans, wiccans, humanists, nihilists and other assorted doubting Thomas types:

    Tex has never been comfortable with invitations at a funeral. For one thing, it detracts from the purpose.

    I have attended two that I actually walked away as Christian with not sorrow but joy. And at those two funerals, though Christ obviously mentioned, it was a story of what the preacher proposed happened at the minute of death both beautifully described, with a microphone passed for anybody wishing to volunteer what the person to be interred had meant to their lives.

    It was both a personal tribute and a message of hope.

    As all funerals should be.

  196. But what you guys from the left always conveniently forget is Stockman was fired in disgrace by Reagan and his cabinet.

    Did a bit of wiki research and Stockman resigned for being too honest about what was going on in the Reagan admin. I wouldn’t say fired in disgrace …. resigned in disfavor.

    But some choice quotes from Stockman in recent times that make me pay attention:

    “(Extending the Bush tax cuts is) rank demagoguery. We should call it for what it is. If these people were all put into a room on penalty of death to come up with how much they could cut, they couldn’t come up with $50 billion, when the problem is $1.3 trillion. So, to stand before the public and rub raw this anti-tax sentiment, the Republican Party, as much as it pains me to say this, should be ashamed of themselves.”

    “The Republican Party has totally abdicated its job in our democracy, which is to act as the guardian of fiscal discipline and responsibility. They’re on an anti-tax jihad — one that benefits the prosperous classes.”

  197. Just don’t try to convince me you’re pro-life. **GUFFAW**

    As mom as coming home soon, PoolMAN™ipulator, I have neither the time nor the inclination to deal with your abject stupidity today.

    Since I think you’re clueless to what ‘Thall shall not kill means’ as you obviously are to what ‘Thall Shall not steal means”, I will only say this as Christian.

    God does not waver in His commands. Ever.

    By man his blood shall be shed…a direct commandment that needs no interpretation. When murder is committed the death penalty is in order. It is me that follows God’s instruction. Not you Foolman, a rank coward and a charlatan.

    So I’ll try not to use the word Pro-life, if you’ll promise to refer to yourself as ‘Christian.’

    Stooge.

  198. Kid just got back from last “day” at school … one hour to get yearbooks signed and collect report cards. Summer has officially begun. Where can I hide?

  199. I have no problem with the sting. I want to know that that kind of thing is happening. If we’re going to declare that reality an isolated incident, then I want more of these stings done so that there’s some way of knowing that.

    I also have no problem with anyone introducing bills that make it more difficult to spend our tax dollars on fighting and occupying foreign countries. We shouldn’t make such weighty decisions with ease.

    And I have no problem with introducing bills that place restrictions or otherwise limit – or even flat out do away with the death penalty entirely.

    The PP employee was supporting gender-selection abortion. They should have to answer for that. I support any legislation that makes that a crime.

  200. At my mother’s funeral in 1995 the damned preacher spent almost the whole time explaining …

    So PF I take it your mother was not an atheist?

    The only reason I can’t really complain about the shameful job the minister did at my grandmother’s funeral was that she was an atheist who should NEVER have had a religious ceremony. But of course, “funerals are for the living” and her dumbass relatives were church goers so they never gave it a second thought. The result … the minister essentially said my grandmother was going to hell. And her (and my, by extension) dumbass relatives never even thought to be insulted.

    Goddam fools.

    Aside to Muffy and anyone else who cares to know …. 99% of the time I do not condone bigotry because usually bigotry involves who someone is not how someone behaves. I’ve seen enough vindictive venom seep out from under the sanctimonious rock of organized religion to be immune to its virtues. If that makes me a religious bigot as you have called me, then so be it.

  201. Tex, I do hope you know that with 70 years hindsight there is a not insignificant number of people who DO consider Harry Truman a mass murderer.

    I’m an odd bird when it comes to these things. I am for peace until you attack me unprovoked. When you kill my people without pretty damn substantial provocation, you get a nuke up your ass. A decade down the road now, we should’ve nuked Afghanistan in 2001 and been done with it. 👿 Would have sent one mighty powerful wake-up call to Iraq, Iran and Pakistan.

  202. Tex, there were NO Christians in the Old Testament. So your OT philosophy rings hollow with me. I know you have difficulty with… “let he who is without sin cast the first stone” theology, but THAT is the grace and mercy that came with Jesus Christ. “Forgive them Father, they know not what they do.” Where’s the militancy in that?

  203. I’m sorry I called you a bigot, Rutherford. I should have pulled that punch because I am fond of you. I think my dad’s a bigot, but I would never say that to his face both out of respect and tender feelings toward him.

    “usually bigotry involves who someone is not how someone behaves…:

    Let’s talk about your definition of bigotry sometime. It’s there where we disagree.

    I feel I’m left with no other way to respond but to reiterate that I really am sorry. I wish I hadn’t said that to you.

  204. As it stands now no one is defending the rights of the unborn child, and that needs to change.

    Noah I was with you 100% until you delivered that whopper. Where have you been sleeping the past 40 years? There would be no pro-choice movement without a corresponding pro-life movement. The latter is VERY vocal and on very rare instances, violent.

    Noah, if you could restrain your more melodramatic tendencies, I could find myself agreeing with you at least 30% of the time.

  205. By the way, …. Dennis …. Noah …. Nagic.

    Damn man … you change blog handles almost as often as I change underwear. Is your motive the same as Tex’s … to get past the blog censor?

  206. A shame, Rutherford. Because your very reaction today and your mood tells me you run from the only thing that could help you. Normally, unlike some of the other that frequent here like BIC, I am pretty crass and for all intents and purposes, more like Jonah than Jesus – my own miserable shortcoming. However, because I consider you a friend of sorts, rather than be offended by your attempt at contempt and ridicule, I pity you.

    Like so many foolish men, you judge the infallible by the fallible, and you’re both too lazy and too shallow to do the work yourself required. I hate to tell you this, but by your blustery nature, you only confirm you are at a loss and struggling.

    Let me warn you as friend who values truth above all else. It will only get worse for you without a change of heart. No hope only leads sorrow, and sorrow to meaningless. If you are really going to choose that path, I would as a friend suggest you live it up and forget all these troubles while you still have the time. And that is one thing we need not debate. Time is limited by your nature.

    I’m more convinced by Pfesser than by you of the sincerity. And the differences become most stark and most revealing at someone’s passing.

  207. I really am sorry. I wish I hadn’t said that to you.

    I appreciate the apology and I don’t fault you for your honesty. No need to pull punches because I do consider you a cyber-friend.

    When we combine yesterday’s event with lack of sleep and a gloomy outlook for my business (especially during the summer), my nerves are a bit raw today.

    I think it’s time for me to write another post bashing liberals. Stay tuned. 🙂

  208. Some problems with just nuking Afghanistan:

    1) That “nation” did not commit any aggression toward us, as a matter of fact 97 percent of Afghanis never heard of 9/11.

    2) The Taliban offered us OBL if we could show some proof he was tied to 9/11 (something we still cannot). Bush told them essentially “forget it”, we’ll go at it our own way.

    3) They don’t even consider their land a “nation” with proper borders. That is a western world’s MANipulation™.

    4) It’s a little difficult to build up the poppy fields and become the supplier of over 94 percent of the world’s opium after a nuclear event, and that obviously was a CIA priority. Also the vast mineral wealth could not be as easily stolen and extracted.

    5) Where would that leave the highly profitable contractor and arms supplier industries if their new marketplace was highly radioactive? And with whom would they practice their “art”?

    Now if you were talking Saudi Arabia, we might have some real justification.

  209. Poolman, you’re even more the fool than the lost, because you think you are saved by mouthing your platitudes, placing yourself as some sacrificial lamb, and cherry picking verses while you twist in the wind. You’re a disgrace to my faith, your not much different than these snake charmers and Tower of Babel types who roll down the aisles or laugh themselves silly, and if there is anything God hates, I’m convinced it’s cowards. All the way through both Testaments, that message crystal clear. You confuse meekness and practice cowardice. You confuse abolish with fulfill.

    But if you don’t understand Christ was there from the beginning, then not only are you a disgrace, you’re a heretic and a Pharisee and worse than the goats. And though you have a form of religion, its rendered moot and powerless by your perversion.

    Christ did not tell his Apostles to pick up a sword for nothing. And Christ did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill. If you can’t believe the Old Testament, then you’re wasting your time in believing the New, Poolman. Because without that understanding, you have no understand or real appreciation of mercy and grace. You pervert grace.

    Perhaps you should reread Revelation 19 if you so sure I’m wrong in my “militancy.”?

    And perhaps you should reread the story of John the Baptist. That is, unless you think John the Baptist, the greatest who had ever lived (Jesus’ words, not mine) was mouthing platitudes like you do.

  210. Since I think you’re clueless to what ‘Thall shall not kill means’ as you obviously are to what ‘Thall Shall not steal means”,

    Poolman I am truly sorry to chuckle at your expense but sometimes Tex’s quips do crack me up. For some reason, that gave me a guffaw.

    Tex, thanks for quoting that Byrds song … one of my favs. 🙂

  211. “violent…”

    Hmmmmm.

    We must not forget about that very violent abortion doctor in Pennsylvania and his grisly house of horrors. Charged, and not unduly I daresay, with 8 counts of murder.

    “…sanctimonious rock of organized religion to be immune to its virtues”

    Man oh man, can I relate to this. I was for a long time repelled by certain organized religions until I earnestly tried to develop my discernment beyond just knowing that when a pastor is trying to slide his hand up my skirt he’s probably not someone whose guidance I should follow.

    I’m truly grateful for the lessons. They hurt but fortunately for me didn’t exact a cost beyond the temporary mental anguish of letting go of my faith in people and putting it in God.

    I’m grateful to Fat Grannies too. Their sanctimony and blind devotion to their religion of Humanism and the doctrine of Obama succeeded in pushing me further toward the center, then fairly well over the center line. God bless them. 🙂

  212. John the Baptist, is a good example Tex. He was the “Elijah” of the NT. And his followers came to Jesus to ask if indeed He was “the One”. Jesus confirmed this to them by citing scripture. But He also noted the difference in His followers and John’s. His followers were not required to follow the “old rules” and were considered “rule breakers” by all the pious elite. The “church” of the day, aka the synagogue of Satan, was opposed to John as well as Jesus. They were both radicals and revolutionaries.

    And Jesus told them to “purchase” a sword. It did not say to wield one. That is only inferred by some. Any true believer knows our weapons are not carnal and enemies not flesh and blood. Even the “sword” in Revelation 19 is not a physical weapon. Maybe you should review Revelation chapters 1,2,3, before skipping to 19. Just saying…

  213. I have yet another theological question for anyone who cares to answer and it is borne not of snark but simple logic that currently escapes me.

    At the funeral yesterday, the minister reminded us how Christ died so that we may all be resurrected as He was. I have a simple question. Millions upon millions of people died before Christ did. Where did they go? No where? Hell?

    P.S. A great anecdote from one of my favorite sitcoms The Middle. Brick, the youngest in the family is a religious skeptic. Among the obnoxious questions he asks at Sunday School is “I don’t get this water into wine business. Why in the desert would you turn water into wine? Wine dehydrates the body.”

    Later after he attends a different church he says “that church rocked. They explained that the alcohol in wine makes it less vulnerable to bacteria than simple water.”

    LOL … I just love it … a kid who demands scientific authenticity from religion. 🙂

  214. I’m more convinced by Pfesser than by you of the sincerity.

    I’m not sure why. Is it because PF expresses his skepticism unseasoned by personal experience and hurt? That makes him more sincere?

    It is probably true that PF comes to his conclusions via intellect and I come to mine via a combination of intellect and personal offense. Not sure what any of that has to do with sincerity.

  215. The minister yesterday essentially said that without belief in Christ and the afterlife, life here on Earth has no meaning or hope.

    Am I to understand that death is an entry to a vacation home with no golf course fees, all you can eat buffet, and a sleep-matic bed in every room? And without that to look forward to, our lives are just a meaningless practical joke?

    Perhaps it is the lack of faith that makes me leave such sermons with many more questions than answers. 😐

    What’s funny is I think if I found a church that was spiritually nourishing, focused on making THIS life optimal without concern for any afterlife, Tex would call such a church unacceptable and a sham.

  216. I’m grateful to Fat Grannies too. Their sanctimony and blind devotion to their religion of Humanism

    And I can relate to that too. Sometimes liberals embarrass the hell out of me. It gets so bad that …. believe it or not … my wife fears I’m going to change sides one day. 🙂

  217. “I think the pro -abortion people are behaving with the same mind set as the NRA. Any law restricting gun ownership or abortion is a nose under the tent which would ultimately destroy the right to own a gun or to get an abortion.” – James

    Sage. I would add to that, Republicans on raising taxes and Democrats on tweaking SS. Hopefully there is still some wiggle room there.

  218. Maybe school ending will be a good “distraction”.

    Actually it’s made my mood worse. I love the structure of the school year.

    I’ve got my kid enrolled in one summer day camp she will probably love (2 days a week) and a gymnastics program she will fight me tooth and nail about (3 days a week).

    I think I really do need to take that free sociology course offered by Princeton online this summer if for no other reason than having a “good distraction”.

  219. “Perhaps it is the lack of faith that makes me leave such sermons with many more questions than answers.”

    Perhaps more is demanded than attending sermons.

  220. Church should be all about helping each other in this life, knowing this life IS just temporal. Death is as much a part of the cycle of life as birth is. Unless a seed dies, it will never become a living, growing plant. We are the only species that fears death, though we aren’t the only one that mourns death.

    Dying for a cause has always been portrayed as noble. To believe in something strong enough to put your very life on the line for it has always been the acid test of faith and conviction.

    Unfortunately the cause isn’t always true or noble. Often deception is used to portray a cause as noble and worth our ultimate sacrifice.

    I don’t think a funeral is necessarily the best place to try to convert unbelievers. It has been used that way for a long time. Some preachers view it as the only opportunity they have to get their message heard by nonbelievers.

    I have been to memorial celebrations for some after they have passed. The afterlife is something we all ponder, but have little knowledge of. Many guesses and theories, but little factual data.

    Assigning someone to Heaven or hell or paradise or limbo isn’t for us to decide or even know. Our concern is the present and how we treat what we have. Not some pie in the sky fantasy of how it should be.

    I hate funerals. I avoid them whenever possible. They are for the living and folks attending are generally very judgmental. I always struggle with what to say to survivors and refuse to offer the patent responses.

    But let me be the first to say I will prefer cremation over embalming. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Once my spirit has left the building, I want the building destroyed pronto. Scatter my ashes over Oklahoma. It might be good for them to ingest my dust. 😆

  221. James, I think earlier in the thread you mentioned a liberal with a sordid past who has been harassing his critics.

    If you want more info, BiW has a post for further inquiry. It’s become quite the brouhaha in some circles and the intimidation quite effective. You’ll notice I will not type the man’s name in this comment.

  222. On the topic of ingesting dust … I believe Keith Richards has confirmed the urban legend that he mixed a bit of his Dad’s ashes with some cocaine and snorted the mixture.

    Ewwwww.

  223. poolman said: Scatter my ashes over Oklahoma.

    I think that’s code for “eat my dust.” LOL Not a very subtle code at that…

    re: getting burned up. I agree. Do you still remember that childhood rhyme: The worms crawl in; the worms crawl out; in your stomach and out your mouth? Still creeps me out. If I’m burned up I know that my bones will never be disturbed, the worms won’t get me, I won’t smell bad (any worse, anyway), I won’t take up real estate and have to be cared for for aeons, and it just seems a lot cleaner to me somehow.

    Thinking about what constitutes life a couple of years ago, and I realized that it it not your body, because everybody has one pretty much like yours (except for Dolly Parton, of course). It’s not the brain, c’os that’s not unique either. It’s not even the chemicals in the brain because everybody has the same ones.

    No, it’s just the PATTERN of those chemicals’ distribution. Not anything corporeal at all – just a pattern – a map of where each molecule lives – not even the map itself, just a description of where each molecule resides.

    So fuck it; we ain’t anything to begin with – just a pattern; why not have done with it, get burned up and hasten the process of getting those chemicals back into circulation – next time you could come back as a patch of skin on some hot chick’s backside. Now there’s incentive…

  224. “…and have your ashes scattered across Tex’s back yard.”

    Shoot I’ll charter a plane and get them there myself. I’m free tomorrow.

  225. LOL PF talk about compartmentalization. A patch of skin on her backside? This means I’d get a bird’s eye view of every crap she takes her entire life not to mention the man-missiles coming at her when she comes of age.

    No thank you.

  226. Noah I was with you 100% until you delivered that whopper. Where have you been sleeping the past 40 years? There would be no pro-choice movement without a corresponding pro-life movement. The latter is VERY vocal and on very rare instances, violent.

    Could you Rutherford show me the set of laws on the books that is looking out for the interests of the unborn child? IF there are not then they are not being represented.

  227. While we’re on the morbid subject … I came up with an entrepreneurial idea yesterday but my focus group (my wife) rejected it.

    It was raining cats and dogs yesterday so everyone had to huddle under a canopy for the outdoor funeral (nothing done at the funeral home this time, for some odd reason). And hence my idea:

    Drive-in Funerals

    Yes my friends, you simply drive up in your car, tune your radio to the drive-in radio frequency and hear the minister’s sermon while you watch your loved one’s casket on the big screen. Perfect for inclement weather. Perfect for our anti-social age.

    Who’s in with me? This could be the next Facebook … ehhhh never mind.

  228. Noah, you’ve refined your statement (i.e. moved the goal post). You didn’t say legislative support of the unborn.

    Am I not mistaken that Roe v Wade DOES restrict late term abortions? If I am right then there is some legislative/judicial support for the unborn. Just not the amount you’d like to see Noah … that I will give you.

  229. A unique pattern implies a realm seperate from the material world. Seems to me it would create an attribute of self that can only exist outside of the physical universe. My unique pattern is not something physical. You can’t hit me over the head with a pattern. Or freeze it. Throw baloney on it. Sounds like a soul. These bath salts are a neoplatonic trip, maaan.

  230. El Tigre. Craig sent me an e mail after he got the message. He asked why anyone from a site he had abandoned months ago would be sending him links to posts. I didn’t know. As you know some sites will do that if you click a box for e mail notification. Maybe that is why he got the message. Any other ideas?

    I don’t have a serious problem with tax money’s paying for Planned Parenthood abortions, but I do have a problem with late term abortions and sex choice through abortion.

    Most of these sting operations are set ups proving only one incident, but they get attention, and in several cases, like voter registration fraud and gender choice through abortion, they reveal such things are happening. The woman in the sex choice abortion sting commented about knowing of other cases.

    I agree abortion has coarsened our society, or at least contributed to changes. It isn’t a large step from killing old people or the very sick to save money.

    The way the wind blows here, it sometimes drops Oklahoma dust on us. Poolman’s and Tex’s ashes might end up in our back yard.

    Thanks Rutherford for the link in 288. He has apparently gone after a few liberals too.

    A Sioux City television meteorologist died of a heart attack, and since we knew him, we attended the funeral. At his request, the first half hour prelude was rock music.

    Our memorial service for my cousin was filled with jokes as when she was arrested for helping sink a gondola in Venice and the torrid affair she had with a French waiter in Paris.

  231. Suppose we have souls reflected as our unique patterns which leave our bodies at death What happens if we don’t know we are dead? Do we become ghosts?

  232. Noah, if you could restrain your more melodramatic tendencies, I could find myself agreeing with you at least 30% of the time.

    Here is the deal. Though you choose, wisely, not to respond to the above topic on leftist vs Liberal, I consider you to be a clear leftist. As such I believe leftists have drank the communist/socialist cool-aid and add to that their obvious Europe envy have decided the U.S. is the villain. So to deal with that you want to fundamentally change what we are as a nation, to reform us into a Greece type socialist state with government run capitalism such as they have in China.

    I think the leftist fight to dumb down our education system has worked well enough that you have actually made significant progress in transforming our nation. What you call melodramatic I call passion. I view you and other leftist as a very real threat and I have a family to protect. Maybe one day when you get ahold of something that you would sacrifice everything in order to protect it, you will understand the distinction.

  233. Shoot I’ll charter a plane and get them there myself. I’m free tomorrow.

    Ha! Nice try. The only poolman dust around here right now is sloughed skin cells.

    Besides, I was thinking more like a hot air balloon flight, in honor of one of my best friends from Lubbock who was a pilot and passed in 2002.

    Really though, I’ve requested the north face of the Grand Canyon. I had considered Aztec peak, since I spent many a night camping there totally awestruck by the stars and 360 view.

  234. “Speaking of not very good at, I read your poetry entry.
    Poor, poor pitiful Thor. Drinking Four Bucks in Tacoma. Penning poetry, rejected like Obama.” Tex

    Gawd. What a liar you are Tex. I only hope you haven’t infected some poor innocent bystander’s blog thinking it’s me. I don’t believe I’ve ever published any poetry. If I did it was years ago and someone owes me royalties.

    More likely you are just lying again. BTW, I see when I exposed your lie about your hypocrisy and dissing my father’s service you deflected to attacking my “imaginary” poetry.

    No stand up in your statements. No honor. What a fucking fraud.

  235. I think Rabbit may be on to something with PF’s pattern theory bordering on a call for a higher order or at least a soul.

    PF, you also made a comment in jest that might sink your pro-choice stance. If you can envision yourself a patch of skin on the butt of a hot chick, then you’ve essentially anthropomorphized that patch of skin. If you can do that, then certainly you can anthropomorphize the implanted fertilized egg. Once that fertilized egg is endowed the qualities of a human being, killing it is murder.

  236. What happens if we don’t know we are dead?

    That’s EXACTLY what happened to Bruce Willis in the Sixth Sense. (Sorry for the spoiler for those who haven’t seen it.)

  237. R –

    The chance that a major part of my chemicals will end up on a particular patch of skin on a particular animal is vanishingly small.

    That’s called “humour.”

  238. Pfessor, his number finnaly came down a tiny bit, which is very good news. Proof the antibody attack is backing off naturally.

    James, if our patterns exist in the realm of ideas, I suppose it never has to leave. Our body decomposes but our souls live on. For 39 dollars I will send you a cassette tape of the Rabbit’s spoken word on this subject in much greater detail while soothing ambient music plays in the backgroukd.

  239. Noah, thank you for reminding me about Tex’s comment 129. I did intend to address it but I’m afraid there is not much to say …. by Tex’s definitions which offer a wild contrast, I am clearly a liberal and not a leftist.

    You see if our country didn’t “change” one iota I’d still be happy to live here. I cherish my freedoms which are not slipping away as you chicken-little all over the place. I greatly admire our constitution for the ideals it has put in place and I applaud legislators who try to fulfill the ideals of our founding documents. I would like to see less poverty, more opportunity and a lifetime supply of Entenmann’s donuts but I’m a patient man and I can wait for it all. If I don’t live to see it, perhaps my daughter will.

    I’ve never lived abroad so it would be foolish for me to want our country to emulate European countries in every way. Are there things we can learn from other countries? I should hope so. There are things I can learn from you while I certainly would not want to emulate you in every way.

    From what I know of everyone here, I don’t think there is a “hater” in the bunch. I DO think several of you are driven by fear. I do think a few of you are desperately in need of a Valium prescription. 🙂

  240. I stated it in such a way so you could more clearly understand what I clearly said.

    You’re a trip, truly. Since you were able to achieve greater clarity with your restatement, perhaps your original statement lacked sufficient clarity?

    You didn’t move the goal post … you just gave me glasses so I could see the goal post better. Thanks! 🙂

  241. For 39 dollars I will send you a cassette tape of the Rabbit’s spoken word on this subject in much greater detail while soothing ambient music plays in the backgroukd.

    Since you’re using my blog as a marketing device, I get a 10% cut and a free copy of the tape. 🙂

    Good to hear that Ruben is backing off a bit. Something that puzzles me Rabbit … and maybe you can answer this from your recent experience or perhaps PF or Tex can answer …. why does the fetus with a different blood type than the mother, not suffer “rejection” in utero? Why does it manifest after birth?

  242. R, what are the qualities that make something a human being?

    It’s a good question which if it had a clear answer might help settle the abortion debate. I know if I say, human attributes like arms and legs forming … but then what about those born without an arm or a leg? Aren’t they still human?

    Philosophically, I’d say the safest answer is any organism with all the cellular components (DNA?) that are uniquely human. That would include the fertilized egg.

  243. So, Rutherford, is a hard drive a computer?

    How about a hard drive and a mother board?

    All those things and a power supply?

    All those things, with a keyboard and monitor?

    All the above and the operating system partially loaded? What if it takes years to load the OS? When is it a “computer?” Half way? 3/4? When?

    When is a “human being” human? When the heart first beats (about 15 days or so, if memory serves…) When the first neurons are formed, but not functional yet? When there is a primitive, but non-functional eye? Ear? When the forebrain is first developing, basic in form, but not processing ANY information?

    What about much, much later in life, when he has stroked out and no longer aware of his surroundings and never will be? Is that still a human being?

    I don’t think the answer can ever be arrived at where everyone agrees, or even agrees in general.

  244. We already decided that in Arizona, PFesser. A human exists up to 3 weeks before conception. The potential of human life is all WE need, unless of course, you don’t have proper papers.

  245. LOL Poolman I thought you’d be more specific and have your ashes scattered across Tex’s back yard.

    I can only pray of that transpiring – it’s a twofer. I’ll know that is one less idiot to bother, and I’ll mix the ashes with Mickey’s piles.

    A fitting ending and tribute to Poolman’s contribution, don’t you think. 😀

  246. You know Poolman. Just to prove what absolute dud and Pet Rock you really are, here’s how our theology debates go. You make some charge, and with one example I shoot your ignorance down – in this case, John the Baptist.

    And invariably, your next retort is this long winded sermon on who it was that just revealed your abject stupidity, as if my example of blowing your profound ignorance out of the water needs further explanation of the very object that bounced you out of the ring to begin with.

    Man Poolman, you are a hoot. A flashing, bright red sign with I NEED MY ASS KICKED!” Fricking Colonel Klink, Meathead, Walter Duranty, and Pee Wee Herman all rolled into one loaf. Tastes like shit, but looks edible in the window.

  247. Mobo (w/ BIOS) + RAM + PS = Computer

    Body + Brain + Soul = Human Being

    Even using the secular definition of soul (a person’s nature, identity) I’m thinking this equation works.

  248. More likely you are just lying again. BTW, I see when I exposed your lie about your hypocrisy and dissing my father’s service you deflected to attacking my “imaginary” poetry.

    Deny it? Hell, I wish I said it twice. If it pissed you off this bad, I think I’ll add to it. I denied your geographic reference, dumbshit

    —–

    I MISSPOKE. NOT POETRY – FICTION. 😈 I guess this was so beautiful, I mistook the prose as poetry…real music to the eyes.

    Get a load of this heap “fiction.”

    FOG

    He is a good father but his son never speaks. Despite their immured dialogue, he attempts to teach the boy the names of stars.

    Sirius. Polaris. Betelgeuse.

    But even the father’s immense paternal love can’t bridge the chasm between them. And yet, during rare instances when their eyes lock, understanding breaks through like crystal beams from a crescent moon, slicing october clouds. For a precious temporal dimple, the fog lifts, the boy smiles and the man and his son understand each other as well as any father and son ever have. Such muted endowments remind him, autism is just a cloud.

    Bravo! Bravo! You might have placed if you had started it out with “It was a dark and stormy night.”

    And you want to criticize my lack of talent and fraud, hey? 😀

    Beautiful, man. Just beautiful. Let me bend over and give you ample reward.

  249. OT –

    Let’s lighten the mood a little –

    Those of us of a certain age will recognize this song immediately. I didn’t think the original could be improved upon.

  250. Poolman,

    You and Thor are two of a kind. Both of you think your responses so grand, so inspiring that you’re bleeding me. And all the while, I’m using you both as stationary target practice. You’re as glued to the floor as a granite cliff, Poolman. You can’t fly. Fold your wings, dodo.

    I’m trying to do you a favor here, and both of you stooges keep trying to escalate the salvo. It has nothing to do with being a legend in my own mind. It’s that both of you aren’t terribly bright, yet each of you convinced of your own genius, you do exactly what you accuse me of which is to bully, come looking for a fight, and then when I slam you back, you whine about fraud, or liar, or legend, or some other caricature. I don’t believe I’ve ever presented myself as legend here. I’m simply my own best audience. 🙂

    Don’t criticize me when I give you exactly what you came looking for. Like Thor, you started this fight. If you don’t believe me, reread. You insulted, so I insulted. Either learn your lesson, or get a rag for your nose. You’re going to need it.

    And all that above did was reinforce exactly what I said about your answer being clobbered, then you explain to me exactly what I referenced to begin with.

    Come on, buddy. Even you can’t be this slow. Do you really think you’re telling me something I already don’t know. 😆

  251. Pfesser, you like that better than James? Really?

    It was pretty, but I guess I’m old fashion. About the only song I can think of that I thought done better than the original is this one. And I’m not even crazy about the artist, but I do like her doing this:

  252. I cherish my freedoms which are not slipping away as you chicken-little all over the place.

    So explain to me how the security act that allowed for indefinite detention of US citizens was not a loss of freedom? Explain to me how the forced commerce of the Obamacare is not a loss of a freedom? Explain to me the bill allowing the IRS to revoke your passport is not a loss of a freedom?

  253. PF –

    Nice. Here’s one back at ya. Happy Friday.

    Don’t you dare bail before the slide guitar part or I’ll know. :}

  254. Do you really think you’re telling me something I already don’t know.

    On almost a daily basis, yes. Apparently. John the Baptist is less than the least of those belonging to the kingdom of Heaven. That is what the scripture says and is the exact OPPOSITE of what you said it says.

    So yeah, you DON”T know, and I’m the one TRYING to set you straight.

    But then, I’m certain that must be a liberal translation. 🙄

  255. Well now, maybe that’s part of the confusion, Poolman.

    I never mistook Rutherford’s blog for the Kingdom of Heaven.

    Perhaps you can start there, and explain to me in your infinite wisdom my disappointment that after all these months, how little did I know I was badmouthing God Almighty incognito as Rutherford.

  256. The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand. So yeah, it could find itself at Rutherford’s. Maybe you should consider what “the Kingdom of Heaven” is first, then extrapolate from there.

  257. Oh hell’s bells. If you haven’t heard Johnny Cash’s version of “One” yet then don’t blame me. I tried. 🙂

  258. The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand. So yeah, it could find itself at Rutherford’s. Maybe you should consider what “the Kingdom of Heaven” is first, then extrapolate from there.

    😆 Well, maybe you should, as you find yourself at Rutherford’s, Casper.

    Once again, your mathematical constructs are null and void. We don’t need to extrapolate from the Kingdom of Heaven. Where do we extrapolate too, Einstein?

    How about instead of extrapolation, we try a little regression and you can start by explaining when and where you passed.

    Rutherford, your blog is haunted by the Ghost of Poolman Past.

  259. “I never understood that line.”

    You wouldn’t be a big-legged women would you?

    I can’t even find a cogent interpretation of it on the usual online sites. It must be stoner logic.

    p.s. one of the guys her said it was term he and his teenaged friends used a lot in the 70’s for a tall lady – not thick.

  260. Ok, I’ve spent the last 10 minutes researching “big-legged women.”

    I refuse to answer that, El Tigre. 😉

  261. PF … sorry I’ve been away from the thread writing a new post and watching American Idol vids on YouTube (yes, I know a mind is a terrible thing to waste … sue me).

    There is only one reason your computer analogy doesn’t hold. A keyboard does not contain all the necessary materials to become a computer. Nor does a mother board, etc. You can type on a disconnected keyboard all you want and all you’ll get eventually is carpal tunnel syndrome.

    A fertilized egg on the other hand has everything and through the “miracle” of gestation, we literally get something from what is apparently nothing.

    I know you’re arguing viability and I know that is one way to skin the cat, but the computer analogy doesn’t capture the essence that pro-life people see in a fertilized egg.

  262. How about instead of extrapolation, we try a little regression and you can start by explaining when and where you passed.

    We seem to be “talking” but not communicating. But I see you do not fully understand what the “Kingdom” is about. When Jesus began His ministry on earth, He said the “Kingdom is at hand”. Not coming, not in the sweet by-and-by. At hand. Like your keyboard. It presently exists. The only death or “passing” is one of the old sinful spirit. A rebirth then, if you will – what you Evangelical types call a “born again” experience. THAT is what separates the “Kingdom” from the earthly realm. So it CAN and does operate within the same place.

  263. From the part you quoted Tex, I thought “Fog” was actually rather nice. BiW has an autistic child if I’m not mistaken. I imagine he might like it too.

  264. So explain to me how the security act that allowed for indefinite detention of US citizens was not a loss of freedom? Explain to me how the forced commerce of the Obamacare is not a loss of a freedom? Explain to me the bill allowing the IRS to revoke your passport is not a loss of a freedom?

    Notice … I said MY freedoms are not under attack. You see, I won’t be indefinitely detained because I keep my nose clean. I am already FORCED to pay for the uninsured in ER’s so no big difference. At least with Obamacare I’m forced to pay for myself and my disability won’t have any effect on my coverage. And I won’t have a problem with the passport issue because … I keep my nose clean. It’s amazing how much we can enjoy our freedoms if we simply don’t break the law. 😉

    Now … not to be too big a wise ass, the detention thing does trouble me. But it has zero impact on my freedom.

  265. So explain to me how the security act that allowed for indefinite detention of US citizens was not a loss of freedom? Explain to me how the forced commerce of the Obamacare is not a loss of a freedom? Explain to me the bill allowing the IRS to revoke your passport is not a loss of a freedom?

    Just playing devils advocate here but perhaps you could explain how.

  266. “I always considered Mike Nesmith underrated.”

    Indeed. Buried on the Monkees albums are cuts penned and performed by Nesmith that are quite simply excellent songs.

  267. Sorry Rutherford. I really am not nearly as cold as I may come off – until I meet a prick and a smart ass and a punk. Thor meets all three criteria. And he came looking for a fight. And haven’t even lit his ass on fire yet, but I intend to.

    And you give me that foul brew to drink, and I will quickly become this: Fuck him.

  268. Thor, re: FOG
    What a beautiful description of a parent with an autistic child. I will pass those thoughts on to my daughter.

  269. R, if your health problems don’t effect your coverage, then how are you paying for it? Somebody else is taking on the risk. Free lunch. Perhaps a free lunch Nanny is morally obligated to provide, but free lunch nonetheless.

  270. Rutherford. “I won’t be indefinitely detained because I keep my nose clean. I am already FORCED to pay for the uninsured in ER’s so no big difference. At least with Obamacare I’m forced to pay for myself and my disability won’t have any effect on my coverage. And I won’t have a problem with the passport issue because … I keep my nose clean. It’s amazing how much we can enjoy our freedoms if we simply don’t break the law. 😉

    So I wonder

    When the Nazis came for the communists,
    I remained silent;
    I was not a communist..

    When they locked up the social democrats,
    I remained silent;
    I was not a social democrat.

    When they came for the trade unionists,
    I did not speak out;
    I was not a trade unionist.

    When they came for the Jews,
    I didn’t speak up,
    because I wasn’t a Jew.

    When they came for me,
    there was no-one left
    to speak out.

    Seems like you are being very concerned with self and very shortsighted…yes?

  271. All I can say is that is one courageous cover by the Man in Black. Cash had real balls. I wish I had been more into him when he was alive. Didn’t he also do some collaboration with Trent Reznor or some other heavy metal outfit … maybe Metallica? I’ll need to research it.

  272. R, if your health problems don’t effect your coverage, then how are you paying for it?

    I may have misspoken. I didn’t mean the coverage might not go up … I simply meant I couldn’t be denied.

  273. Noah, did you notice no where in that famous poem does it say, “and then they came for the criminals and I kept silent because I wasn’t a criminal”?

    I’ve already acknowledged to you that the detention stuff freaks me out a bit because of its potential for abuse. But I also must admit I’m not losing sleep over it.

    I know you find this very hard to believe but Obama is not Hitler.

  274. “More likely you are just lying again. BTW, I see when I exposed your lie about your hypocrisy and dissing my father’s service you deflected to attacking my “imaginary” poetry.
    Deny it? Hell, I wish I said it twice. If it pissed you off this bad, I think I’ll add to it. I denied your geographic reference, dumbshit”

    No, dumbshit, you said this about my comment AND made a reference to your geographical challenges.

    “One time I spoke of my father’s service in WWII. Tex retorted that “everybody’s Daddy” served in WWII to which I reminded him that Romney’s Dad didn’t to which he pulled a common Tex and instead of admitting he didn’t know something he claimed he had “forgotten it”.”

    “Baloney. Why don’t you go back to get that dialogue word for word, and we’ll rehash it for the class. Your memory like your intellect is lacking, lackey and liar. I do remember making jest of Tokyo Thor.”

    Now do you get it moron? You asked for it word for word. I spoon fed it to you. And once again you are caught in a lie. It’s like a sickness with you.

  275. Thor, re: FOG
    What a beautiful description of a parent with an autistic child. I will pass those thoughts on to my daughter. – Raji

    Thank you Raji. Very kind words.

  276. Thor, I just responded to your whining. No need to rehash, and it took you exactly minutes to break your promise. I must have really burned your little ass. That just breaks my heart.

    I’ll just tell you this pansy. I remember the episode all too well. I meant to piss a maggot like you off. And I wanted you to waste time finding it, as I knew you seethed through the entire search. You think that’s a lie? You don’t know very well then. 🙂

    And I have no idea if your father served or not. Frankly, I don’t much believe a thing you say and if your father not significantly older than your mother, he was serving as a boy, again courtesy of your shithole for a blog, where your family the crowd and you pucker up for each other. Touching…actually retching.

    But here’s all I know, Dickens. I think it safe to assume you’re old man not much different from you. Therefore, it logical to assume the rotted fruit didn’t fall far from the diseased tree.

    Now, you can kiss my ass. You pucker up, prick.

  277. @nagic I guess I’m just curious to what degree the concept of “freedom” is being applied.
    For example those that would be detained. Are you saying this effects the freedom of all?
    As for ObamaCare, I get feeling ones freedom is being denied via forced commerce but I don’t hear folks articulate that folks should be free to allow said freedom seekers to just die and not cost them any money.
    As for the IRS thing this was a classic example of right wing inanity. The law is meant to catch high end cheats from fleeing. Its aimed at people financially beyond anyone I imagine comments here,and is in line with some of the admittedly extreme tactics the IRS has at its disposal all ready.

  278. I know you find this very hard to believe but Obama is not Hitler.

    No but we are supposed to be foolish enough to trust the intentions of a person who makes laws Hitler would be proud of?. Why do we have corruption in government? Many reasons I am sure but probably one of the most often true reasons is that Power Corrupts. Again you are being amazingly short sighted. Our government is based on a systems of checks and balances. These laws your Messiah is writing do away with these checks and balances..

    This isn’t about criminals and I think you know that, which makes you even more dishonest than I had given you credit for. Our government should never have been allowed to even have a vote on this to set precedent, let alone have them passed into law. How can you say out one side of your mouth you respect the Constitution, then out the other side say you can accept these laws under any circumstances?

  279. Alfie
    As I mentioned above….on Detention.
    We have protections that are supposed to keep government powers in check. This circumvents those protections. Our government was designed as such (in a way i happen to agree with) that the government serves the people, not the other way around. We not see since Obama has taken office, laws being put into place that gives the government power it has never had in the history of our country. There are many ways to skin a cat, in this country, this is not how we should do it. We should work within the confines of our Constitution and not violate violate the civil rights and freedoms of people. In other words, we can still accomplish the job without having to sacrifice our freedoms and protections to do so.

    Obamacare.
    Again government is stepping outside its intended role. Government has no place to force us to buy a product. There are other ways to accomplish the goal without giving the government new powers.

    As for the IRS thing this was a classic example of right wing inanity.

    Could you explain this statement to me because it makes no sense.

    I know what the IRS law is and what it does. Again it gives government a new power that has never been necessary in the past. What new events have come into play that we would allow government this ability?

    I like to look at the big picture. IF you have ever been a part of a Union negotiation with a huge company, you know it is important to understand why the company is willing to concede some things that seem significant but refuse to concede minor points, and you have to ask why. What is it they are planning in the future that makes this so important to them.

    You don’t turn a free democracy into a communist or socialist state over night. You do it once piece at a time.

  280. We not see since Obama has taken office, laws being put into place that gives the government power it has never had in the history of our country.
    That’s simply untrue. I read clearly though your Jeffersonian/Paulist stance otherwise.
    I still haven’t heard you say anything that We the People should have the right to oppose paying for healthcare of others. I get the make me thing,I just think one is being dishonest if you don’t firmly go all in.
    The IRS has had far reaching powers and the stopping you at the border is well within the sphere of past precedent. If you want to ratchet it up that the IRS should be abolished thats a different conversation.
    The right wing inanity means exactly what it says. The machine ramped up inane rhetoric and misrepresented what the truth is. This is counterproductive to the foundations of an honest and effective opposition.
    Your close reveals the possible roots though. You seem to firmly buy into the romantic interpretation of early Federalist formation. it isn’t the truth folks make it out to be. The democracy is safe.

  281. The first part of your post I am going to need to read a few more times because at the moment I am not getting it.

    The right wing inanity means exactly what it says. The machine ramped up inane rhetoric and misrepresented what the truth is. This is counterproductive to the foundations of an honest and effective opposition.

    Ok I at least see where you are coming from. I read from the bill itself not the talking points so I can see why you choose to argue from where you did. I am for abolishing the IRS but that is another topic. I am saying that expanding the powers of government should be done so only when it is proven that it is absolutely necessary and what it has not been proven that it should be looked at very closely and with some distrust.

    Your close reveals the possible roots though. You seem to firmly buy into the romantic interpretation of early Federalist formation. it isn’t the truth folks make it out to be. The democracy is safe.

    I don’t buy into your romantic characterization. You are welcome to think all the work has been done for you and take your freedom for granted. You are welcome to think that everyone wants what we have to stay as it is and not convert it into something else. I choose not to be a sheep. I choose to participate in protecting what we have. I choose to ask why, and not assume my government has my best interests at heart, and not theirs. I choose to be vigilant.

  282. I read the law but I’m not in the bickering schoolyard mode.Let’s stay grown-up.
    Is it your position that someone who owes 100k plus in tax should be free to flee?

  283. I have the National Defense Authorization Act on my desktop. I’ve asked others for the info and they all decline. Can you cite where it states US citizens are to be detained?

  284. It is 50k to my understanding and again I ask, what new circumstances are in plat that make this law necessary?

    “Barack Obama has abandoned a commitment to veto a new security law that allows the military to indefinitely detain without trial American terrorism suspects arrested on US soil who could then be shipped to Guantánamo Bay.

    Human rights groups accused the president of deserting his principles and disregarding the long-established principle that the military is not used in domestic policing. The legislation has also been strongly criticised by libertarians on the right angered at the stripping of individual rights for the duration of “a war that appears to have no end”.

    The law, contained in the defence authorisation bill that funds the US military, effectively extends the battlefield in the “war on terror” to the US and applies the established principle that combatants in any war are subject to military detention.”

  285. The democracy is safe.

    Damn Alfie is a breath of fresh air today.

    BTW Noah while you’re all up in arms about detention and IRS authority where are you on the “kill list”? That’s one where I could completely get on board with your outrage. Any outrage for that one?

  286. Well fwiw I’ve enjoyed the exchange. I’d just like to add the following:

    Detention etc. FDR Executive Order 9066 for starters.

    The quote in 375 is all well and good but I’ll stay with the contents of page 430 of the law

    (b) APPLICABILITY TO UNITED STATES CITIZENS LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS.—
    (1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS.—The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.
    (2) LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS.—The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States.

    @Rutherford re “kill list”. What is your understanding of the subject? I obviously get the vibe you don’t like it and I appreciate many a O-fan are flummoxed but what exactly are your backgrounders? Pundits? NYT Times article? ????

  287. Re: kill list
    On one hand I commend the President for looking at the people he is about to order to kill. On the other hand the information in this article shows us a side of Obama I did not know exists. This is a man who has no problem taking innocent human lives. The names he gave to these missions and objectives shows he has no regard or remorse for his actions. Obama is the type of guy IMO who could go shoot a man, walk back inside and have dinner with the wife and kids, and not bat an eyelash.

    This in no uncertain terms is grounds for impeachment.

    http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2012/05/the-presidents-kill-list.html

  288. Had the law that passed into effect and which will be re-explored and acted upon in 2013 had in fact allowed the detention of US citizens you’d have some standing.

    Had you not proclaimed falsely that Obama was the only POTUS to detain without cause US citizens I probably wouldn’t had paid you any attention at all.

    You listed three items of twisted spun rhetoric that were essentially lies,classic examples of the right wing inanity you discounted earlier, and you feel someone that disagrees based upon truth and history is the one being obtuse? lol

  289. It was the law of the land for MONTHS. It was changed after the fact.

    List for me my lies please and let me take you apart one piece at time.

  290. We not see since Obama has taken office, laws being put into place that gives the government power it has never had in the history of our country.
    For starters especially as it pertains to detention. Again see FDR and the Nisei.

    Law enforcement stopping people + IRS. The IRS has had law enforcement factions within its ranks since 1919. How do you feel that you can’t get a passport if you owe a measly $2500?

    As for the forced commerce of Obama Care. Well I gave you that earlier I just wanted to hear the full circle argument regards SS,Medicare,Medicaid etc..FWIW I’m actually rooting that the SCOTUS does the right thing and severs the crap out of the thing.
    Rip away to your hearts content I’m away the rest of the day.

  291. FDR and the Nisei.
    Yes I fully remember this, and this is an exception I will admit. Funny that we did it once before and so you are ok with it now. However I do not recall them deporting people to another country.

    IRS
    Sorry I wasn’t specific enough for you to comprehend my request. What lie did I tell Quote the lie, exactly then I can respond.

    As you could not muster up the courage to respond before I will ask again. What new events are in play that require the IRS to have this NEW power?

    Obama Care
    Sorry I wasn’t specific enough for you to comprehend my request. What lie did I tell Quote the lie, exactly then I can respond.

    It is forced commerce that I cannot opt out of.

    Looks to me you are just being a bit of a bitch trying to win an argument based entirely on points of semantics. Go you!

  292. James, you know you’re barking up the wrong tree when you start attacking a conservative. Alfie is no Obama-lover. What he’s done simply is to point out the hyperbole in your objections.

  293. Alfie, to answer your question, my knowledge of the “kill list” runs about as deep as a kiddie pool. I read a bit of the NYT piece and I’ve heard the pundits have their say. All I’ve gleaned is that Obama on a weekly (?) basis is given a list of terrorists to target for capture/kill (where capture is highly unlikely). He asks questions such as age of the target, level of threat from the target, etc. Supposedly he gives the final go-ahead on each kill. The spin is that he does this to take moral responsibility for the decision. You can, of course, choose to believe that or not.

    I find the practice as I’ve described it somewhat alarming. Unfortunately this ill defined “war on terror” has allowed lots of wiggle room with respect to due process.

    To Noah: if such activity were grounds for impeachment, we would have impeached probably every POTUS in the 20th century or at least since the invention of the CIA. I think what makes this case different is prior Presidents (before Bush 43) could claim plausible deniability. If I’m not mistaken the “targeted killing program” was started under Bush 43 although I don’t know the extent of his hands on involvement.

  294. If you read the entire article it is pretty well spelled out and you can probably see why I take great issue with his choices.

  295. @Rutherford
    So is it the killing or Obama’s personal hand in it? I see a lot of press and punditry on it and there seems to be a large amount against him being involved. I kind of view it as being in the spirit of Trumans best sign, The Buck Stops Here!

  296. Alfie, when you put it like that it does add a certain nobility to Obama’s involvement.

    It’s the killing and total disregard for due process that bothers me and with or without Obama’s involvement, it’s still his admin doing the dirty deed.

What's on your mind?

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s