Why I’m Through with Trayvon Martin

The verdict is not in. We do not know what transpired between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin in the Sanford, Florida shooting that captured national attention. We may never know. But I will tell you this much. I am sick and tired of defending ignorant people.

When the Martin shooting first broke, the media portrayed this as the shooting of a “boy” who had nothing but Skittles and an iced tea. That phrase alone made me think of a kid ten or eleven years old. Then came the pictures of Martin, all of them portraying a very young kid. As the story unfolded, we learned that the “boy” was 17 years old. We saw new pictures that portrayed a less innocent visage than what we had seen before. Truth be told, the more facts emerged, the less sinister Zimmerman appeared and the more “complex” Martin appeared. Our President said that if he had a son, he would look like Trayvon. Well after weeks of maintaining my objectivity on the matter, let me tell you what would happen if I had a son.

  1. First, I would not be shacking up with my girlfriend in her house. That way, when my son came to visit me he would have a role model worth a damn. I know cohabitation without marriage is the cool thing nowadays but I still say a kid is better served by seeing his divorced father either living alone or married to a new woman. Not shacking up.
  2. Second, my son would not have a Twitter handle so vile that I could not write it on my blog, or brag about it to my friends. Nor would the content of his tweets suggest he has no better than a fifth grade education.
  3. Third, if my son were visiting me, it sure as hell would not be because he was suspended from school for possession of an illegal drug.
  4. Finally, if my dearly departed son’s autopsy yielded a positive test for THC, the main intoxicating ingredient of marijuana, sonny boy would be getting a burial at sea. In other words I’d throw his sorry ass in the nearest river and save on funeral expenses.

Does this seem harsh? Well you know what? I’m tired of defending ignorant kids raised by most probably ignorant parents. Every new detail that emerged about Trayvon I tried to absorb, keeping in mind “don’t blame the victim, don’t blame the victim.” But let’s look at the issue at hand here. Zimmerman is claiming self-defense. Advocates for Trayvon say his character does not matter. Excuse me? His character is the primary determining factor in whether Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense holds any merit. Was Trayvon the type of kid to run from a fight or lean into one? The more I hear about him, the less able I am to conjecture that he would run from a fight.

Here’s the scenario that I can live with:

  1. I am divorced from Trayvon’s mother and I live alone in Sanford, Florida.
  2. Trayvon comes to visit me as part of the normal visitation agreement with my ex wife. Trayvon is a good kid. Good kids don’t possess illegal drugs.
  3. Trayvon goes out to get a snack from the nearest convenience store.
  4. About 20 minutes later, Trayvon comes running back into the house, out of breath and scared to death because some stranger approached him menacingly.
  5. Because my boy Trayvon is a nice kid, he ran like hell from this stranger. He didn’t stop to talk to him. He assumed the stranger was dangerous and he got away from him.

We know for a fact that Trayvon was not shot running away from George Zimmerman. A nice kid, an innocent kid, a kid afraid of trouble, would have run like hell. If he wound up dead it would be because Zimmerman shot him in the back. Didn’t happen that way.

You know what my tipping point was in this case? It was when I read the kid tested positive for THC. I almost dropped my outrage on his behalf when I found out about the Twitter handle he used. But I allowed myself to get suckered into that “it’s just a cultural thing” type of bull crap. But the THC was the last straw.

I’m sorry Trayvon’s parents had to suffer the loss of their son. No one should see their children die. But the fact remains that Trayvon was not a nice kid. The only way Trayvon comes up nice is if you view him through some bogus double standard that forgives ignorant behavior of young black men. As a black man, I reject that. I find it insulting in the extreme.

Verdict or no verdict, it is pretty clear to me that Trayvon was a gangsta-wannabe who encountered a cop-wannabe and got way more than he bargained for. Make no mistake. I don’t retract my objection to the Florida stand your ground law. It stinks. But I am sick and tired of ignorant people raising ignorant children and then wondering what went wrong when they get in harm’s way. To some extent, Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman were made for each other. Trayvon has paid the ultimate price for being a young fool. What price Zimmerman pays remains to be seen.

Regardless of the outcome here on out, I’m done.


Photo by David Shankbone (Own work) [CC-BY-3.0], via Wikimedia Commons

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178 thoughts on “Why I’m Through with Trayvon Martin

  1. Damn. Another rube self-identifies. 😀


    Sorry, if I hadn’t been a smart ass, I would have been accused of simply nodding to the preacher and using you in a weak moment, with you being called a house boy or some other pejorative genuflecting to the white man’s opinion or trying to gain favor. I mean, there always has to be some alterior motive in opinion besides simple honesty, right?

    What a great post, R.

    You being a black man, it makes the content and conclusion of the post all the more surprising to me and all the more objective. Reminds me of that rant Bill Cosby went on some years back about taking responsibility as parents no matter the color of your skin, of which Cosby was naturally accused of being a sell out by large swaths of the black populace.

    I’m sure you are going to catch some grief for not “toeing” the line, but this one was Cory Booker worth concerning an even more ‘dangerous’ subject – swimming upstream against the interjection of race trumping reason.

    Don’t know what you pushed you over the edge of throwing yourself to the wolves for criticism, but it took guts to portray this level of honesty in today’s politically correct environment where we all are forced into category because of who and how we vote.

    And you got guts, R.

    Since you were honest, let me be completely honest.

    Free societies don’t need to be ruled by fear. Frankly, many of these dopey gun right nuts demanding and voting for open carry frighten me every bit as much as any banger.

    You can have any kind of gun you wish and if someone kicks in your door, blast away and reload and I’ll cheer you on. But you don’t need to be brandishing guns for public viewing. That’s just another form of intimidation and bullying.

    Can I say I’ve been reflecting a little more on these vigilante make my day laws where we all wear holsters with pistols attached to our hips like bad Westerns (you Oklahoma), and I believe there’s a whole lot of little penis syndrome in that? And that I vote NO?

    Gasp…I know I’ll be accused of the unforgivable sin of anti 2nd Amendment.

    Tough…and baloney.

  2. So, if your dead teen age son smoked weed sometime in the last month before his untimely death you would treat him like Osama bin Laden and disown him? Come on, man.

    And what does Trayvon’s old man’s living arrangment have to with Trayvon?

    The question I want answered is why did the media feel the need to bull shit the story to such an extent that the president of the most powerful nation in the world is comparing himself to an aspiring thug.

  3. By the way, you need to be through with MSNBC not Trayvon.

    We need to care about Trayvons of the world. It sucks he made such poor choices.

  4. I like your comments, Rutnerford. The people you should really cut loose are the politicians and media who tried to turn this story into what it wasn’t. You don’t need to forsake the liberals as much as you should combine the left with more conservative news sources. As much as you hate Michele Malkin you could read what she has to say and compare it with what you hear on the liberal side. There are many other sources besides Malkin and by looking at them with an open mind, you might stumble across the truth somewhere between the two.

    I’m checking out now. Our computer has been a paper weight for several days and gave messages that we should take it to the shop. Now, it has suddenly begun to work again after six self examinations.

    If the computer keeps working, I will be back Otherwise, it will be after we buy a new computer.

    Take care of yourselves..

  5. By the way, I forgot how fucked up it feels to get your nose broken. The pain, the waterfall of blood. And this is my 3rd one. Did Zimmerman get his nose fractured? I didn’t get black eyes like I thought I would. The bad news is my nose is pointing in the wrong direction! 😛

  6. Nothing like the feeling of being ‘had’, is there? Well, this one was tailored to take you in.

    You did better than most. On the liberal side, you did better than practically all, to wit: “The Trayvon Martin Case — Three Related Issues”.

    I think it would be a mistake to forget about this case, though. It is a poignant example of a serious problem, and ever more so as it continues.

    In American society, I believe racism is pretty much over.

    However, I propose to you that the American justice system is effectively racist, despite every person in it not being so.

  7. R, I also applaud most, but not all of what you’ve said. You were right. This was not so rewarding. Not because you;re wrong, but because you missed the larger issues. Not a word about the gravity of Zimmerman’s plight, bullshit MSNBC, false racial components (in fact you embrace them to some extent through omission), the vigilantism and attempted lynching, etc. etc. In other words, I agree with DR (as you already know). I also don’t fully get the THC aspect of it.

  8. It was that tmot rant from the last thread, wasn’t it? I have no problem with the pot smoking, other than this nation made it illegal and therefore one is supposed to follow the laws of the land, even the stupid ones – not that everyone/anyone does. We pick and choose those we uphold.

    Unfortunately our leaders are the biggest rule breakers and therefore it makes it difficult to portray them as any type of role model.

    The role models are messed up today. Parents have a difficult time imparting real values to their kids when society is constantly eroding those notions. But it still falls to the parents. Until the kid is a legal adult, everything he/she does is reflective of their upbringing.

    But the bigger tragedy here is the exploitation by the media of this event. Racism was stoked and killing “rights” evoked. We are led by these antagonists down these paths they’ve paved and we’re subjected to all their sideshows staged for amusement and persuasion.

  9. Go Mrs. Rabbit!

    I’ve long thought that Trayvon slipped through the cracks before he crossed paths with Zimmerman.

  10. R, I’m still struggling with your focus on this one. You passed judgment then seem to feel betrayed that the narrative concerning the victim only was different thatn what you bought into? I mean. . . shit. You should be wondering why you “wanted” to buy into the narrative to begin with. Duke Lacrosse seems like just yesterday.

    And you want to rail against the gun law, even though it doesn’t seem to have any application and of course is not the real story.

    You say nothing of Zimmerman. You should be screaming for the charges to be dropped. The boy is fighting for his life – a GD murder charge.

    It seems to me that your assessment of the whole event turns on whether Martin was “the right victim.” That troubles me.

  11. Tex, you’re right. This post won’t win me any friends on the liberal side and may lose me a few. To be honest, I haven’t yet worked up the courage to post it to my Facebook timeline as I do with most of my posts.

    As for what put me over the edge, I basically say it in the piece. I don’t condone blacks calling themselves n*gger. I find it to be the ultimate in self-loathing. This notion that embracing the word takes the sting out of it is pure bullsh*t. So when I found out about Trayvon’s Twitter handle that was big strike one (equivalent in my mind to two baseball strikes … so only one to go). Then I read about the THC results and that was strike 3.

    There are innocent, truly nice black kids who are the victims of senseless violence. As Rabbit pointed out at the outset of this debate, those kid don’t even get a mention in the media. No time to talk about them because we have to fit in the sports and weather report. Oh … and fit in a sensational case, skewed by the media to fit a particular narrative.

    I just got fed up.

    But you do need to understand one thing. The reason I hesitate to come down hard on the brothers and sisters is that I don’t like giving safe haven to true bigots and racists. There are folks who will read this post and agree with it for the wrong reasons. That grieves me.

  12. So, if your dead teen age son smoked weed sometime in the last month before his untimely death you would treat him like Osama bin Laden and disown him? Come on, man.

    Rabbit, you know what my mother used to say to me? “Don’t expect me to visit you in jail.” I believe weed should be decriminalized but for the time being it’s illegal. Possession and non-medical use is a crime. I don’t want a criminal for a kid. As for the bin Laden treatment, that’s from my Mom too. She used to say “you commit suicide and your body goes in the river.” My Mom didn’t tolerate any kind of nonsense.

    And what does Trayvon’s old man’s living arrangment have to with Trayvon?

    It’s a pattern of behavior Rabbit. Kids can only learn from what they see around them. When Daddy doesn’t respect his girlfriend enough to marry her and prefers to just shack up, it sends the wrong message. I see Daddy’s living arrangement as part and parcel of a whole host of negative influences that made Trayvon a thug.

    The question I want answered is why did the media feel the need to bull shit the story to such an extent that the president of the most powerful nation in the world is comparing himself to an aspiring thug.

    You’ve already answered this question in prior debates. The media gets mileage out of racial conflict. I applauded Obama’s comment when he first made it. But then I thought would the President have said “If I had a son he would ACT like Trayvon.” Was Barack ready to sign up for a son whose Twitter handle was offensive? I kinda doubt it. You won’t see Malia and Sasha on Twitter calling themselves “StraightUpHo”.

    Rush Limbaugh is an assh*le but bottom line he was right … who gives a f*ck who Trayvon “looked like”. The focus should have been on character and whether that character made it more or less likely that he’d emerge from his tangle with Zimmerman alive.

  13. Probably so, Rutherford. You might lose a few “friends”, though if so, they were using you for something other than friendship.

    But you’ll gain a million admirers, me included, for making the attempt to be honest and admitting mistake. And I don’t say that because your conclusion fits my conclusion. I say that because after viewing all the facts, you changed your initial position and said you were wrong.

    To me, the dope was incidental and predictable. The whole sordid affair that tipped me off immediately was the way the story framed. Little, poor black boy – marauding, gun toting “white” Hispanic. The minute this story broke, I was suspicious because I know the media corrupt and vicious. I truly think they want and are pushing for a race war. Why, I’m not exactly sure other than it leads news.

    Tell you this. I probably know more “brothas” than you do. But I hope for a minute before it ever comes to that, my black adversaries will join me in a temporary cease fire to fry the asses of a bunch of media folk (white and black) who seem to take great satisfaction in creating strife. And that goes for a bunch of white and black race hustlers too.

  14. “Any ideas?”
    Need A Good Shag?
    Oh! Need A Good Spanking! =D
    According to poolman they were working on outing Tex.”

    Need a Good Spanking. Now I LIKE that! Especially because that group of middle-aged termagants is so sexually repressed. That lori person realized that my handle, PFesser contains “Fesser” (which actually turns out to be French for “spank-er,”) and tried to make something of it, but as she raised the stakes, so did I, and they all backed off, their delicate sensibilities outraged.

    No chance of that happening here. heh, heh. Doubt there are very many sexual novices on this blog; it sure is fun hanging with the adults. LOL

    Rabbit – just remember: 99+ percent of all human births in the course of history have taken place without a doctor present. Just be glad it’s not you; Bill Cosby described it as taking your lower lip and pulling it over your head. OWWWCCCCHHHH!!!!

    BTW, ask your doctor about that “husband stitch” – but not where your wife can hear, or even if he does it, it may not ever be any benefit to you…(grin)

  15. Rutherford – I get your concern about giving unintended aid and comfort to the enemy, but you can’t look at it that way. You have to do what’s right and let the chips fall where they may. It’s damn hard to do but you can’t let the ends justify the means – ever. It always works out badly. (Perfect example is Affirmative Action, which IMHO has caused far more problems than it has solved. You level the playing field and say have-at-it. Trying to influence the outcome by overcompensating for past wrongs never works; it just fosters resentment and never in the final analysis does what it is supposed to.)

    Anyway, I appreciate your re-thinking of your position. Damned courageous thing to do. Hope to have the opportunity to return the favor.

  16. Poolman, I confess I do like TMOT’s no nonsense attitude toward “the community”. TMOT has served jail time himself. If he is to be believed, he learned from the experience.

  17. Off topic … a belated Happy Birthday Pfesser. I’m going to go out on a limb here but I suspect just from reading between the lines that our elder statesman is James. You’re 59. Tex and I are contemporaries — that puts us in or near 51. Rabbit is just a baby in his late 30’s I think. I always pictured Gorilla to be the old crotchety military guy but now that I’ve talked to him, I don’t put him much over 40.

    Of course we almost never hear any more from the youngest in the crowd, my beloved Sensico who I figure is between 20 and 22 about now.

  18. Damn PF, you got the better of my curiosity and I just surfed over to M&H. Nothing has changed there. I think it was Lori who outed me, not Donna but I couldn’t honestly say … it was over a year ago. I do recall that no one condemned the outing.

    What’s with the Greenville, SC thing? Is that someone else they outed?

  19. Tigre, (No Limit Tigger be damned, you’ll always be Tigre to me) as is often the case I think you’re straining your brain muscles too much on this one … or perhaps just annoyed I didn’t write the article you wanted to read.

    It’s no issue of right or wrong victim. Let’s talk legal since that’s your wheelhouse. Z is claiming self defense. The kid’s character plays into whether he was less or more likely to do something that Z viewed as life threatening. The media has done their damnedest to paint Trayvon as a kid who would not do something that Z found life threatening. Until more details emerged, Trayvon was a choir boy.

    It was not my purpose to write an article defending George Zimmerman. Unlike you, I don’t view people cavalierly carrying weapons as benign. I have no doubt that Zimmerman contributed to this tragedy. He wasn’t some guy minding his own business who got mugged and then shot the mugger.

    This article is about responsibility ignorant people have for their own misfortune. I sort of feel “betrayed” by Trayvon himself. I bought into his being a good kid. He wasn’t a good kid. With the verdict still out, it appears that Trayvon could have avoided this tragedy. It doesn’t let Zimmerman off the hook but Trayvon was no innocent and it’s time that the excuse making and double standards applied to the behavior of blacks gone wrong stopped.

    It’s as simple as that. You or Rabbit want an article condemning MSNBC write one yourself and I’ll publish it as a guest post. That’s not the article I wanted to write.

  20. I truly have not been to FG in months until the other night, when I felt the need for blog bowel movement.

    There are about five of them (it doesn’t seem to be near as large a contingent now) that are simply reprehensible people – Lori is one. Poolman and JuneauJoe (an imbecile on the Yeller Dawg scale) are their male toadies.

    I don’t know who this ‘Anonymous’ fellow is, but he has been accused of being me. So now there are four or five males (Pfesser, Noah, James, Anonymous, UAW) that kick the drones’ being back into play when the mindless rolly pollies fall off the carpet and the boys wish to roll them around some more.

    Who really knows what the blog author thinks. I would not be the least bit surprised she tolerates the grief because she needs the blog traffic.

    I noticed they were begging for money and selling “cookbooks.” 😈 What’s that tell you about Anonymous Fat Grannies well being?

  21. Tex, I inferred that Anonymous was Noah/Nagic. I could be wrong.

    As for Facebook, yup your instincts were right on the money. Joe Scarborough has been joking that Zuckerberg married the day AFTER the IPO so his wife couldn’t retroactively get access to any of his IPO related fortune.

  22. R, I hear you. I understand your objective and too applaud your reconsideration of a previous conclusion. And you are correct, I have my own concerns an wasn’t you job or intention to address them. So today you are “not a douche.” 😉

    Understand though that there is a certain schism in attempting to divorce yourself from my observations.

    For example, you say, “this article is about responsibility ignorant people have for their own misfortune” yet fail to address who it is that’s bearing that responsibility (i.e. Zimmerman and those that must defend their involvement). That’s the part that’s missing and what bothers me the most. The epiphanies from the disclosure of evidence and facts hardly means this thing is over. A price has been placed on someone’s head by the state, the media, the black community, and perhaps now the DOJ (hate crime?) — all of it politically motivated.

    I’ve truly wondered how you could place such reliance on the conclusions reached by the media (MSNBC in particular) and those you refer to as “race hustlers” given their track record on these issues. You know I’ve given you my opinion of why the Sharptons are “always” wrong. I won’t repeat it.

    However, I will repeat that I feel very, very strongly about the leftist media’s need to consistently tear off scabs when it comes to race relations, always with manufactured narratives, exaggerations, and false accusations. Damn it! It should not be passively or actively condoned, yet it always is.

    I think it was James that said that for too many on the left all that counts are motives; never actions. He’s right. And particularly in instances such as this, It’s got to stop.

    One more thing: Why so turned off by the THC thing. Obama admitted to doing cocaine and that was not a disqualifier for you. What do you think the chances of Romney having engaged in drug use is?

    No Limit Tigger — out!

  23. Barack Obama. Hoisted by his own petard! 😈

    Tigre, did you see this while you were there? Classic. I just know intelligent “people of color excluding white color” Rutherford types grind their teeth when this incredibly hideous troglodyte speaks. I can almost see Rutherford searching for the nearest closet. It sets their cause about 2 million years. 😆

    Maxine Waters ‘Mean Spirited’ Tea Party Hurting ‘People Of Color’


  24. By the way, during lunch I had a flashback I had forgotten. It wasn’t being outed that drove me out of Fat Grannies. Yes, that was bad enough. It was having one of my comments edited by the blog owner to make me look illiterate. Entire sentences had been dismantled. Verbs given the wrong tense, etc. No sense commenting on a blog where your comments are not really your comments. 😐

  25. Well “R” – in your honor of such a great post, I’ve taken the time today to insult the entire Fat Grannies diseased herd of misandrists for old times sake. 😀

    But only for a short time, as I feel sullied in their presence.

    Believe me, I sympathize with the editing. It’s what Graychin the Liar used to do, and then worse, lie about doing it.


  26. ” Entire sentences had been dismantled. Verbs given the wrong tense, etc”

    er. . . yeah. . . that’s what you do to me. . . but I keep coming back. . . hypocrite. 😆

  27. Tex, Maxine Waters should be taken out and shot. Notice she never wants for a camera or microphone though. 🙄

    At least she now has to defend Obama The Original Tea Bagger!

  28. Why so turned off by the THC thing. Obama admitted to doing cocaine and that was not a disqualifier for you.

    I highlighted the answer embedded in your question. Obama presented himself from the outset as a flawed man. With that admission we now have the choice with full information to either believe he learned from it and give him a pass or condemn him.

    With Trayvon, his handlers wanted us to believe he was a choir boy. Come to find out homie was smokin’ doobies. I was fed info on Obama by Obama that allowed me to make a decision and not be snookered. That wasn’t the case with Trayvon.

    I was just thinking, wouldn’t this scenario in a parallel universe have been refreshing:

    Trayvon Martin’s father was interviewed today and said “I told that boy repeatedly to back off from confrontation. But between the rap and the drugs and the posturing I just couldn’t convince him. I want to see that Zimmerman guy arrested for killing my son but damn I wish Trayvon had listened to me.”

  29. “I was fed info on Obama by Obama that allowed me to make a decision and not be snookered. That wasn’t the case with Trayvon.”

    Again, why you bought into the narrative to begin with or didn’t at least view it with real skepticism is beyond me.

    So I assume when your daughter clues you in to her love of the Ganja she has a choice of blindfold or no blindfold? 😆

    How’d you like Clinton’s informing you “[he] didn’t inhale?”

  30. BTW, I was laughinh mass off witht eh Gorilla call-in to the radio program. Can’t let him “dominate” the precious airtime, now can we? 😆 😆

    I would’ve called in myself if I were listening live. I love the attack on GST, Private Equity, leveraging and debt by your co-host without any consideration of Obama’s “investment” in Solyndra and other favored companies with tax payer money. How’d we do on our return? I guess it ain’t debt if its our money. Sheesh. Truly absurd.

    p.s. she really is condescending as shit. She’s got no right to be so thin-skinned and nonplussed when she gets the same in return. plus it’s entertaining.

  31. Tigre, my daughter just last week got grounded by me for a day for lying about something far less critical than smoking dope.

    As tough as I was on Trayvon’s parents in this piece, I spend at least part of each day with my fingers crossed that my daughter has the good sense to not get into any life-changing vices down the line. A parent can do only so much.

  32. Well, as we speak I’m trying to convince my co-host of the “entertainment” value but she’s not buying it. If G continues to call in, expect to hear him in shorter bursts.

    Besides, to some extent my radio partner is right. It’s not a debate show. Folks can call in and voice their opinion but the back and forth can really eat up a one hour time slot.

  33. Is it condescending when the host is so stupid in trying to be condescending, only to come off as sounding stupid? 🙂

    I’ve got to remember to call into that radio program one day. The question is, will Rutherford let me ride Sandi’s ass (figuratively, of course) and for how long before pushing the mute button? 😈

    Isn’t Sandi a redhead? I just love those fire in the hole types…

  34. The question is, will Rutherford let me ride Sandi’s ass (figuratively, of course) and for how long before pushing the mute button?

    The answer is the mute button will be deployed with great haste.

    I carry my skewed sense of debate from this place right over to the radio show. Sandi does not. And since we are partners and I control the switchboard, I have to defer a bit to her.

    The segment with G yesterday was a bit unfair in that I had a position that G really couldn’t attack so all his ammo went flying at Sandi.

    Radio moderation is a lot trickier than blog moderation.

  35. Congrats Rabbit!! Bronson now has a little bro Leo. I don’t know dude, I think you’re gonna need to change your name to Dead Lion.

    I assume Mrs. Rabbit is resting comfortably?

  36. R, really, how’d you get hooked up the the bubble-blowing-fire-crotch? I’ve wondered that listening to your program with the two of you agreeing and expounding on your agreement for an hour. Was it like Love Connection or some other hook-up?

    What’s wrong with some back and forth? All she does is spew talking points while looking for ways to use the term “FORWARD” as if though Obama needs her help carrying the message. Boring.

  37. Tigre, well to answer the non-critical part of your question, I “hired” her. I did the show solo starting in 2009 for about a year. If you find the show boring now, you should listen to the early solo episodes. They make today’s version downright scintillating.

    I found her on Twitter. I’m not politically active. She is. I spout opinion, she knows more about specific policy. I aim for centrist, she is clearly unabashedly far left. It’s an interesting combination. Now if I could just make some benjamins off it, I’d be happy as a clam.

  38. Leo Rabbit. 7 pounds 14 ounces. Fit as a fiddle.

    HEY! HEY! HEY! Congrats, Proud Papa. Is he as wild as a May Hare? Was he like me, and hung like a bear at birth? 😀 Hrmph Hrmph

    Or did he take after the old man?

  39. Rutherford,

    Aim for Centrist? WTH? 😆 You duck hook left right off the first tee box after the birthday introduction. You’re even more radical on the radio show than one of those Sarah Palin blast offs you occasionally post her.

    Sandi is just pure pinko, making you believe you sound centrist.

  40. Yay for baby Leo. Great name. Congratulations Rabbit. Best to the Mrs and to Leo’s big brother.

    I was 3 when my younger brother was born. Evidently I packed a few things things in a bag shortly after he arrived home and announced to my parents that they could take him back to the hospital. 😆

  41. Congrats to Mrs Rabbit and DR on their new Bunny, Leo. When he gets a bit older you can tell him all about being a bunny on the internet 🙂 Glad all went well.

  42. Okay, totally off topic, but inspired by our fertile DR.

    My boy just turned 10. My wife says it’s time for “the talk.” I say he’s too young.

    I don’t recall how old I was when my old man approached me and said, “Tigre, it’s time for us to have a talk that all dads have with their sons.” I looked at him and said, “are we gonna talk abut fu*#king?” He turned around shaking his head and walked out of the room. That was my “talk.”

    I have older brothers. I heard things on the schoolyard. My buddy showed me his stash of dirty magazines. I had it all figured out. by the time my old man got to me.

    Thoughts on the right age from those qualified to speak to it? He saw to adults kissing at the park and said, “look at those people just having sex in public. That’s not right.”

    Man am I conflicted.

  43. You haven’t had “the talk” yet? 😯 I think 10-year-olds have probably seen enough porn to know something about it, even it it is mostly inaccurate knowledge.

    Somehow you need to get it across that you are the one he needs to go to for the accurate information and that he shouldn’t be afraid to discuss it.

    My dad told me at 15 that if I wanted to have sex and was too embarrassed to ask the druggist for rubbers, he would buy them for me. I wasn’t getting any girl pregnant on his watch. That was the extent of “the talk” I got. But times have changed.

  44. He just turned 10 the other day. I am confident that he hasn’t seen “porn” (penetration). I could be the weirdo dad that is in denial, but he told me he thinks kissing is “sex.”

    Of course, if he had older siblings it’d be a foregone conclusion that he knew plenty.

    Hell,if you asked Mrs. Tigre she’d probably tell you I’m not qualified. 😆

  45. Had a little scare. One side of his body went blue during his bath. His vitals were all perfect. So, im told no worries.

  46. Hard call. My grandkids are 9 and 7. The youngest is obsessed with girls. When he goes to a store he beelines to the bras and talks about the boobs that they are meant to embrace.

    I think different kids are ready at different times. They both have an idea of what penises are for. Plenty of their school friends have older brothers, so I am certain there has been some discussion.

  47. Pfesser would be more qualified to speak Rabbit, but if I remember my Developmental Anatomy, neonatal cyanosis is very common because of the higher hemoglobin content of newborns for the first few days. Bluish tint comes and goes for a time – especially the lips and extremities.

    If the vitals are fine, the baby should be fine. Got to remember, 12 hours ago the little guy was sucking fetal urine (yuck) and breathing through the placenta – and the pulmonary is the last system to kick into homeostasis. I can’t remember my time stats, but it seems the lungs go through an extended period of reorientation after birth to send all the blood through the lungs to receive oxygen. Could be 7-14 days, but I don’t remember.

    Pretty cool, Mr. Rabbit. Bet you had a long day – bet your wife had a longer one. Tell her Tex thinks all moms are real troopers. 🙂

  48. Thoughts on the right age from those qualified to speak to it?

    Tigre it gets worse than that. My 8 year old daughter already has the concept of what being gay is. No she doesn’t understand sodomy but she gets the notion of a guy liking another guy as though he were a girl.

    Since I’m a guy with a daughter, I’m basically off the hook for the “talk”. My wife has already answered some questions. My philosophy is to do just that … answer questions. Don’t make it some big rite of passage. I seem to recall that is the approach my parents took with me although they did have a book on reproduction written expressly for children that they let me read.

    I’m also a big believer of just talking openly about it within certain limits. Just a day or so ago I told a story at the dinner table about how my cousin who was my babysitter confided in me that she was pregnant and how my parents were shocked that I was able to keep the secret. Once she started showing of course everybody knew. So in telling the story my kid understood that as you get pregnant your belly starts to get big.

    I think it’s hilarious you said “f*cking” to your Dad. If that ain’t learning it from the schoolyard I don’t know what is.

    Post-script — Some folks never get the complete “talk”. I had a colleague at work, a very smart man, who thought women urinated from their vagina. 🙂

  49. BTW FWIW, I think it’s sweet that your kid thinks kissing is “sex”. From all I’ve been able to piece together from your various comments over the years it sounds like you have a very nice boy. Let him become aware at his own pace.

  50. DR, hang in there. As you probably know, this being your second rodeo, the babies like to scare the crap out of you the first few days. I’m assuming he got a good Apgar score.

    Ain’t that a motherf*cker???? You’re barely out of the womb and you get tested and graded right off the bat. “Can’t you assh*les give me a couple of hours before you start categorizing me?” 👿

  51. Tell her Tex thinks all moms are real troopers.

    I have to tell you, between the monthly period and having something the size of a bowling ball come out of your vagina, I would have to be PAID to be a woman and I ain’t talkin’ minimum wage either.

  52. DR – congrats to you on your new baby. Of the things I have done in life, it’s the thing I am happiest about.

    And congrats to the rest of us on the birth of Leo. We NEED another taxpayer, instead of a tax-user.

  53. re: outing at FG’s. There are very few taboos on the Internet, but outing marks you as the lowest of scum in a neighborhood where the scum is pretty low.

  54. OT – Fauxcahontas.

    Occasionally one finds a comment that sums up perfectly. This is from commenter “docweasel1” on The Hill blog:

    “The problem here is not that Warren wants to play Indian, or claim Indian heritage. Hell, you can’t swing a cat without hitting someone claiming ancient royal blood or 
other prestigious lineage. The point is that the left has set up a 
spoils and patronage system based on race and sex, and are working on 
setting one up based on sexual proclivities, with the supposed aim of 
righting old wrongs by wronging new people.

    Warren’s perfidy really highlights the problem with 
race/nationality/sex based spoils systems: no one can really prove who 
belongs in these protected victims’ classes, so it’s more a case of 
disenfranchising people with legitimate claims to jobs, college berths, 
benefits etc. than rewarding anyone who truly “deserves” it.
    When you come right down to it, no one deserves this special 
treatment any more. No former slaves are alive. No Indians rousted out 
of their homes survive. Warren claimed special benefits and privileges 
based on a corrupt and unjust spoils system that should have died 
decades ago. Maybe this situation will help bring that about.”

    Hear! Hear!

  55. Thanks for your thoughts R. I like your approach. And my boy is a damn good one. They don’t come any better. I hope DR is as blessed with Leo as we are with ‘Lil Tigre.

    PF docweasel hit it on the head.

  56. Excellent post by DocWeasel. They ought to give him a medal.

    The fact that an ultimate phony like Spouting Bull Warren is still competitive in any political race – I don’t care if it is for dog catcher, says more about the quality of our populace, than it does failed leadership.

    We can all mock our feckless Congress and their 9% approval rating, but the fact is we put them there.

  57. PF hate to let you in on this but until Leo gets a job, he will be a tax burden on the rest of us. That’s what cracks me up about you conservatives/libertarians. You benefit from the “nanny state” every day of the week and then spit in the government’s face in return. And then you have the nerve to call Poolman a traitor.


  58. Regarding outing, I don’t know whether Donna has a piss poor memory or is a liar. Even though I think Lori did the deed, Donna was on the board at the time. So Donna’s claims that she barely knows who I am and doesn’t remember any outing ring hollow to me.

  59. Tigre/Pfesser/Rabbit/Rutherford,

    My oldest came home this weekend from med school to spend a few days with the old man. I moved my baby daughter Saturday to an apartment for the summer before her senior year of college, and eldest daughter came in Saturday night. Traded one kid for another. Both were with me Sunday without mom and we had some real heart-to-hearts for hours. Things we love, things we were sorry for, tons of laughs reminiscing about funny things, good dog stories and vacation trips, some apologies and hugs, even a few tears.

    Without doubt and by accident not giving much thought at the time, I will say my only real accomplishment of lasting worth is my two children. Wish my wife and I would have had more. Because both these kids are so much better than I’ll ever be in virtually every capacity, and that is the truth, I feel my legacy a successful one no matter what happens from here on out.

    Strange as this may sound at almost 52, I felt a peace about passing. And I made a promise to myself last Sunday, I’m going to do everything in my power to clean this country up for their children before I go.

    The nonsense of millions of meatheads and slugs screwing this beautiful country up needs to be met head on.

  60. Tigre, I think the right age is whenever the subject rises 😉 My 7 year old grandson just got his first talk because he asked what neuter/spay meant. My daughter tried to describe to him what neutering meant and he said “cut off the penis” which led to discuss the testicles. He thought the penis/testicles were all one unit so we really had to clear all that concept up and then the concept that he could be neutered….blah, blah, blah. So yep, he got his talk at seven.

  61. I must say that DocWeasel does make an interesting point without sounding callous. One of the things that pisses me off about most anti-affirmative-action people is how damn heartless and callous they sound.

    But this brings to the fore an interesting question. There has been much talk on this blog about the dysfunction of the black community. What say any of you about the Native Americans, a community in which alcoholism and suicide are rampant? Whence springs their dysfunction?

  62. You benefit from the “nanny state” every day of the week and then spit in the government’s face in return. And then you have the nerve to call Poolman a traitor.


    Well, well. I suppose it depends on how you look at it, doesn’t it Rutherford? Seems to me Leo isn’t a benefactor of the “nanny state”, but you and your beloved big government a benefactor of little Leo and his good parents.

    His good parents because they are more than carrying their weight to support your nanny state and the millions who take far more than they contribute, with little Leo being raised to assist in supporting you in old age.

    I think a large part of your problem Rutherford is that you are so terribly myopic. I say that in all sincerity. You continually perceive government as the end all and means to everything. Our Founding Fathers saw it very differently, and though recognizing there had to be a central role to facilitate a nation, put severe restrictions on its authority.

    What I find ironic is that you liberals always condemn supply side economics as a failure (pffft), but then never recognize your beloved government works the same way. But their track record isn’t nearly as successful as private enterprise.

    I do believe it was nobody short of our Founders who thought government by the people and for the people. And I feel very safe in saying you personally have been a huge benefactor in their sacrifice and their wisdom – vineyards you did not plant and barely tended, but eat from nonetheless.

    Government is only as good as the people who grease its wheels – this generation and the future generations. If you want to really be a good patron of big government, then the first thing you should do is be a responsible citizen and good parent, with the intention of at the very least, supporting as much as you take.

    Your selfishness and your shortsightedness has enabled millions to do just the opposite. You’ve created dependency by enabling irresponsibility. You tacitly have supported bad behavior by your unwillingness to engage. And your methods will ultimately lead to our undoing.

  63. Like I stole Fauxcohantas from Tigre (and I’m sure he saw it some place), I copped Spouting Bull from George Will (and I’m sure he saw it some place).

    I only wish I could be that clever.

  64. “One of the things that pisses me off about most anti-affirmative-action people is how damn heartless and callous they sound.”

    I think (along with you perceptions of the response to many liberal ideologies) is more of a “push back” to failed logic and b.s. emotional devices than actual callousness.

    R, what’s your usual response to some pity party when the empathy bit has run its course?

    From what I’ve seen, much of the Native American social problems are born of the same dependency and instilled victimhood as the black community. But I’m from Boston. What the hell do I know about Injuns and their fire water?

  65. Strange as this may sound at almost 52, I felt a peace about passing.

    Interesting that you have this self awareness. But beware of it Tex. I am convinced my mother died at the relatively young age of 67 because she truly thought her work was done. My sister’s life was stable and I was married with a new baby. Our welfare was ultimately what mattered to her most. I honestly think once she decided she had done all she could do she lost the will to fight illness and it overtook her. I know that sounds like psychological mumbo jumbo but my mother’s battle with undetected diverticulitis (eventually bringing on sepsis) was the only battle I ever saw her lose. And from what I could see, she hardly put up a fight. For as long as I live I’ll never forgive myself for not getting more actively involved in her health care.

  66. Thanks for your thoughts Raji. I think I’m reaching the conclusion that R is right (shudder). There is no need for a “right of passage” talk. Maybe letting him know he’ll get the non-judgmental straight dope from his old man if he wants it, but no force feedings is the way to go. The more I think on it, the more it makes sense.

    Or I could just make some hardcore porn site a homepage on our family’s shared computer and trust he’ll navigate his way to enlightenment. 😆

  67. Posting late, baby had a type IV allergic reaction to amoxicillin so its been a rough few days at the noah house.

    Per post topic. Rutherford I am impressed with your post. I think Zimmerman was worth a mention but very well stated. You are my kind of people. It is so rare to find someone that is evolving this day in age where they can critically look at themselves and grow. I can count on one hand, and have fingers left over, the number of people I know who share in this desire to improve and find truth.

    At this rate you should be a Conservative in under 10 years. May I be the first to offer you an early welcome into our club 😉

  68. In the case of Leo, your compartmentalization of the coming doom cracks me up. Let me give you deficit spenders a slow sarcastic golf clap. You have fucked Leo over already. You spent his quid decades ago. And now your thieving class will debase his money, taking the cowardly way until you lay in your crypt that I will teach him to deface with the lewd insults your failed ponzi scheme deserves.

    You kmow what I tell the kids I teach every day? I don’t finger wag them with partisan politics. I show them the debt clock and thank them for money we stole from them. Go back and play on Facebook chumps, their is still a little blood we can squeeze out. Does this make me a right wing teacher pushing politics?

  69. Yeah, little Leo will be a decent tax deduction for 18 years and longer if he goes to college and still is supported by mom and dad. At least that is how it was when mine were still under my roof.

    But the cost to raise him will far exceed the deduction. Ultimately we are glad to make sacrifices for our kids. What else is more noble in this life?

    Leo has a better start than plenty of kids these days. He is born into a home with two loving and supportive parents. He was wanted from the start and will be nurtured and cared for as he grows. He has an older brother who will be jealous of the attention he gets at first, but will come to love and protect him, sharing all kids of experiences that “only” children miss.

    I only wish this world was a better place than it currently is. It scares me when I think of anyone raising kids anywhere in today’s world.

    Like Tex, my two girls make me very proud. They have become productive members of society and are respected in their circle of friends and fellow workers. And they both volunteer at church. It makes me look good. Kids have that ability to make the parents either look good or bad. That’s just the way it is.

    My eldest works for one of the big banks in underwriting and has for 12 years. She is much smarter than me when it comes to math and finance. There are more opportunities for women in banking today. I think the glass ceiling still exists but it was raised somewhat since my mother was in banking.

    As you can imagine, we have some very interesting discussions about banking and currency and the current trends.

  70. Tex, your comments at 83 are all fine and dandy but let’s get down to brass tacks. Part of the hospital expenses for Mrs. Rabbit and Leo will be paid by insurance … a sum of money pulled from a shared pool of funds from participants with that insurance company. If Leo attends public school it will be paid for by the tax dollars of Michigan residents. Even if Leo attends private school, it is highly likely some government subsidy will be in the mix.

    When you turn 65 you will take a social security check that does not simply reflect your contributions over the years but comes from a pool of funds created by us all. The same for Medicare.

    Do I admire you more than the tax cheat or the rare “welfare queen”? Of course I do. Am I implying that Dead Rabbit is the drag on society that far too many folks are? Of course not.

    But this notion that we should all be self sufficient economic islands flies in the face of how we live.

    When you drop your health and life insurance policies and tell the government to keep those social security and medicare checks then I’ll know you’re a real hard ass about the nanny state.

    P.S. I know you hate Elizabeth Warren but her most effective message is that we all (including businesses) are part of a community that helps each other. No one makes it completely on their own. That is what “society” is all about. Since, as you have repeated many times, our founding fathers were Christians, they did not believe in abandoning the poor and I have no doubt some of them envisioned a role for government in helping those in need. Perhaps it falls under the “general welfare” of the people?

  71. Or I could just make some hardcore porn site a homepage on our family’s shared computer and trust he’ll navigate his way to enlightenment.

    It’s funny that you say that. I seriously think a carefully edited piece of porn might be the perfect way of teaching about sex. A picture is worth a thousand words and it totally throws a wet rag on the titillation factor when it’s truly used to educate. But of course I can see the police at my door now after my daughter tells the teacher how she learned about the birds and the bees.

    So that’s a method I’ll have to just leave to philosophy and not practice.

  72. Noah, thanks ….. I think. ❓

    Hope the kid feels better soon. That’s the nasty thing about allergies, you don’t know you got ’em till you hit ’em.

  73. I think your wife is right, Tigre. It’s time. Plus your son opened the door for you. He’s probably confused and a little unsettled. So settle it for him, yeah? That can’t be too wrong.

    It’s a very sweet time for you two, actually. You might be conflicted but he needs to know how to deal with his little body before he goes through puberty. Best that it comes from you, someone he trusts.

  74. Rutherford, we don’t pay Nanny with tax dollars. Havn’t for a long time. We pay it with paper debt that weighs down Leo and the rest of the future. Doesn’t it bother you that Leo was never allowed to have a say in what is public and what is private? Our tax dollars simple make minimum payments on a rip off credit card.

  75. Interesting that you have this self awareness. But beware of it Tex. I am convinced my mother died at the relatively young age of 67 because she truly thought her work was done.

    This sounds quaint to the unbeliever, Mr. Rutherford. But my work is done when the Lord says it is done. Though granted no personal revelation, I can’t help but believe He isn’t done with me yet. This solitude I have had the last seven years, especially the last four without children, has most definitely changed me with self reflection. Regrets? I’m full of them. It remains to be seen for better or worse this window of time begets.

    But I appreciate the good advice to have purpose. You are right.

    I’m not sure I would knock your mother. Though she and I diametrically opposed in almost all of our core beliefs, there was one thing your mother and I most definitely shared: and I gathered this about your mom from you.

    Children are infinitely important.

    I know this much about your mom. She spent a considerable time teaching you and teaching you well. Whatever differences we might have had between us, I still respect both your parents for spending a consider amount of time providing their son with every chance and every opportunity. I know personally the sacrifices that takes because I honestly believe my daughters have the world’s best mom and they think that too. Not always but most often, children are a reflection of one or both parents.

    My only point was that for perhaps the first time in my life and feeling very mortal anymore realizing I’ve seen a lot more yesterdays than tomorrows and feeling it to, I realized there is a chance in this one very important regard, I might hear the words,

    “Well done, thy good and faithful servant.”

  76. Rutherford, you’re making stuff up about the opposition.

    It’s probably it’s too late to try and understand each other at this point. We’ll be doing well if we can just figure out a way to live side-by-side. Which I don’t think we will. Congress can’t even pass no brainers anymore.

  77. Doesn’t it bother you that Leo was never allowed to have a say in what is public and what is private?

    Every generation bears the burden of the prior generation’s mistakes. Yes it bothers me.

  78. Tex, I think you captured my advice in much fewer words than I needed to provide. Having a sense of purpose is important. And I do understand the pride, satisfaction, and to some extent RELIEF, that comes from looking at your kids and realizing it was a job well done.

    Kudos to you Sir.

  79. When you drop your health and life insurance policies and tell the government to keep those social security and medicare checks then I’ll know you’re a real hard ass about the nanny state.

    I think you mix apples and oranges. Health insurance is a pool of shared risk and requires little if any government monetary participation. If government is to have a role, it would only be as overseer to guarantee both the risk and application administered equitably to all parties. And that I believe is a legitimate role of government, both state and federal.

    As far as social security and medicare? You make that voluntary and you bet I’ll let you keep your programs without my participation and payoff. Rick Perry was absolutely right – both are the ultimate Ponzi Scheme. A little late in the game for me, but I bet my bottom dollar my children, Rabbit’s children, and your children would be far better off by simply saving and investing their own monies for self sufficiency and retirement. You know Rutherford, for at least 150 years, our ancestors did just fine without nanny government. Families were families, and we took care of ourselves.

    I find it hard to believe an otherwise stable and educated black man, a man whose intelligence I admire but not his wisdom, can’t see the shortcomings of creating a dependency facilitated by a bloated bureaucracy, whose main purpose anymore is clearly the enrichment of those in the bureaucracy.

    Worse, the results are in and while they have clearly benefited the earliest participants, the future couldn’t be any clearer about what the solvency holds. Rabbit couldn’t be any more right.

  80. Should have been feeling it TOO…sigh.

    And Rutherford has no “children” but child. Time to mow the lawn and shut up. I’ll be back later for an interesting discussion.

    I’ve been a critic of virtually everybody on this board in some capacity, including the Poolman daily. But never once, did any of you come across as anything but loving and responsible parents.

    Now, we need to make sure the rest of society gets on board.

  81. “Every generation bears the burden of the prior generation’s mistakes.”

    Ours is the first generation that squandered the blessings entirely.

  82. R..So spending money we don’t have is a mistake? Why do you cheerlead the worst offender of this in human history?

  83. Rutherford, you’re making stuff up about the opposition.

    It’s probably it’s too late to try and understand each other at this point.

    Well that might be true since I have no idea what you’re talking about. What did I make up?

  84. But never once, did any of you come across as anything but loving and responsible parents.

    Damn, that sounds so boring. I’m gonna have to start making up sh*t about what a lousy father I am just to spice things up a bit. 🙂

  85. Pleasantries first:
    @ DR congrats. Leo gives you another reason to buy Lions paraphernalia,double meanings and all that.
    @ Tigre? The sex ed “talk” is best from a parent but I echo the thoughts that it is more about an ongoing environment of trust,advice,guidance and hard science. I’ve played it that way since the time mine discovered their genitalia and it is still rolling out and evolving. The sitting down serious talk thing of lore is a no go. FWIW I also take it very seriously that it is my job therefore the kids are opted out of the school based stuff.
    @ Rutherford. The last two posts have been really good and I respect perhaps not the easiest to hold out there to the folks on your side of the spectrum. I hold no illusion you are treading towards conservatism but perhaps we can help get you to a true centrist libertarian who is “progressive” in act and ideals as opposed to a Progressive.
    If I could offer something though…. For a post down the road perhaps. Look at NYC and LA for a background on your feelings that were on display in your last two posts. For LA think on how there was an official position not too long ago to just give up on a generation. For NYC look into the stop and frisk an its relation to the broken window (light) policy.
    I think your thoughts on those would be interesting and I dare say gratifying for you politically and ideologically.

  86. I don’t have much time with the home computer today but I think re #77 there is a point of confusion. There is a line between the Nanny State and a civil society.
    As for #82 I’d say native Americans plight owes much to the forced and over time accepted segregation of the peoples.

  87. @112 I don’t buy that Rutherford. Unfortunately for Obama he’s the one sprinkling toppings on top of the shit sundae that is about to topple out of the bowl. Sooner or later ya just have to stop. I kinda think the rest of “Sandis” post backs that up.

  88. “Rabbit, fortunately, new statistics are coming out that prove Obama’s spending to not be the nightmare the GOP suggests.”

    R, that is an outright lie. No. A damn lie. You are fool for accepting it, and a bigger fool for continuing to support an administration so dishonest as to proffer the lie knowing it will be accepted by the sheep.

    Coulter addressed some of it. There’s too much out there had you or your bubble-blowing-fire-crotch co-host bothered to think critically about any of it.


    I can’t believe the ignorance that leads anyone to accept that stupid chart as proof of the complete fiction it represents. Gawd.

  89. Congratulations Rabbit. Glad all are doing well. I’m no cigar guy but I’m sure you and ET have already lit a stogie in honor of the occasion. Any tattoos in the works? (you, not Leo. 😉 )

  90. Rutherford, in #82 you have brought up a good point. We categorize groups and stick them with labels. I think the same has been done with liberals and conservatives today. The categories are subjects such as racism, bigotry, religion, abortion, homosexuality, socialism, for example. We label a liberal as believing in XYZ and a conservative as believing in ABC even though one label doesn’t fit all.

    If the term liberal falls into six of the above categories and one only believes in two, then they are labeled a liberal and vice versa for conservative. It’s like there is no further discussion once you have been labeled just like the black community and the Native Americans.

    I feel we have become so rigid with these labels in order to avoid accusing someone of being a racist or an atheist for example. Sounds much more PC to call them out for being a liberal or conservative.

  91. You’ve gotta be kidding me, R.

    1) Lots of “nice kids” have smoked pot (our POTUS included) and do not deserve to be shot. If that’s your last straw, it’s a very weak one. Besides, if the kid was high at the time, it would diminish his impulse to violence, not increase it.

    2) George Zimmerman could have also run away. He didn’t. And he not only stayed for the fight, he killed. You don’t get a free pass on murder, even if it’s just some punk kid.

    I’m not saying that Trayvon was an angel – I’m not even saying he didn’t engage with Zimmerman. (Who knows?) But Zimmerman is the one who shot the gun. Martin is the one who’s not here to tell his side.

    No amount of punk-ass tweets (unverified to be his, btw) or pot, or “bad parenting” as you claim, justifies taking his life. Zimmerman had already called police, why didn’t he wait – why didn’t he run away? I don’t know, and I’m not going to assume I do – just like I don’t think you have enough info to make the claims you are making about Trayvon and his family.

    You’ve apparently been reading too much right-wing blog coverage. Ask yourself, why are they so interested in the tweets of a 17 year old boy? It couldn’t be to blame the victim and justify their gawd-awful gun laws, could it?

  92. “Ask yourself, why are they so interested in the tweets of a 17 year old boy? ”

    To expose the false image portrayed of your alleged victim.

  93. Sandi, I actually agree with most of what you said. Except for one part. You can’t beat the fuck out of somebody because they are being nosey or calling the cops on you. When you do that and the person is armed you get shot. It’s not muder.

    So your comfortable with the way the media reported on this case? Does Obama look just like no limit nigger? You think that twitter account is fake?

  94. Lol. Im surprised Sandi wandered out of her echo chamber. She probably won’t return . She was here to rebuke Rutherford.

  95. “But Zimmerman is the one who shot the gun. Martin is the one who’s not here to tell his side”.

    So? Zimmerman didn’t want the roles reversed. Imagine that.

    Now, where’s the proof of Zimmerman’s racial animus? Obviously he gunned down that sweet little, non-threatening, skittle-eating boy “like a dog in the street” because he was black.

    Bueller. . .Bueller. . .

  96. “Popcorn. Stat.” 😆 😆

    With so much harmony on the board, you just knew cosmic forces were going to kick the door down, didn’t you?

  97. Like I’ve said before, I’ll wait until evidence is entered according to law and testimony is given under oath. Allow 12 registered voters from Florida make the decision. How bad can their judgment be? After all, they gave us George Bush, didn’t they? 😉

  98. Thorm, why not just go with MSNBC’s or Sharpton’s version. When have they ever gotten it wrong?

  99. We really don’t know what went on between Martin and Zimmerman. Trayvon’s life ended and George’s is now a living hell. Whether it was a failure of parenting (for either) or a failure of society, the result is the same. Now, all we can do is speculate and assign blame.

    Will we learn from this and be better off for their shared losses? I don’t think so. We never seem to get past the justifications and finger pointing. No matter the outcome of the trial, there will be some who will stick to their preconceived notions.

    Now it’s been revealed Zimmerman was highly critical of the Sanford PD in the past, and tried to hold them accountable for their bad actors.

  100. “Now it’s been revealed Zimmerman was highly critical of the Sanford PD in the past, and tried to hold them accountable for their bad actors.”

    And. . . ?

  101. And. . . ?

    You want me to speculate? It makes him look like someone with a desire for a greater accountability from our public servants, expecting them to uphold a higher standard.

  102. We don’t know what all was going on in the minds of these two. All we can do is piece this together based on evidence, real and contrived, media publicity and hearsay. And what is the point of that? Will it make us a better society?

    I don’t think so.

    My point: We are a doomed species that would rather demonize and divide than actually change any of our ways or bad habits. We do not learn from past mistakes and would rather cover over anything that doesn’t make us look good.

  103. Rutherford, I made out a list of six or seven austerity questions about the miser Obama at Lard Ass Grannies. Surprisingly, as of this morning, not one hag, shrew, rat, flunky, toady, or horse’s ass had made even a feeble attempt to answer them.

    I expect so much more of you, though. So…

    I’ll ask you only one. How frugal has Big O been about 17,000,000 more folks to the food stamp rolls? I suppose you think that’s free too, hey?

    I thought for sure you were now past the point of thinking money grew on trees.


    I see that old Sandi has finally arrived. Hang around a bit, bubblegum. I want to take a bite out of your ass, and I haven’t remembered to call in to make my acquaintance yet. I will. And I’ll make it memorable before Rutherford has a chance to hit the mute button. 😈

  104. Thor,

    Would you like to double our Obama bet? I’ll say acquittal for George Zimmerman and he easily walks a free man. Further, I’ll say riot for Trayvon™ where the natives shit in their own backyards first, then realize that’s not getting them anywhere and move to greener pastures, hopefully to be met with a barrage of gunfire.

    Here’s a toast to the good people of Florida have brushed up on history and will have learned a few things from the Korean grocers of South Central L.A.. Perfect excuse to rid the world of several varmints.

    Pop me some Jiffy Pop.

  105. Food for thought:

    Facebook’s IPO launched at $38 a share, and the stock is now trading at $32, and the company and its bankers stand accused of having “hyped up” the stock.** There are lawsuits and hearings.

    GM’s post-bailout IPO launched at $33 a share, and the stock is now trading at $22, after being repeatedly touted by the highest officials of the U.S. government. Yet the suckers who bought it aren’t having a cow. ~ Mickey Kaus

    I thought GM was a raving Bomba success? I believe that means my $35billion stolen from the taxpayers was a little short of estimate.

  106. Rutherford.
    I was wondering what your opinion is on the OWS movement? Fat Grannies all think the movement is far superior in all ways to the Tea Party. I was wondering if you concur and why.

  107. I don’t get what those pissed off new owners of Facebook are complaining about. So the company went down a few bucks. So what? They act like they are entitled to day trade the IPO for 100 percent profit. In some cases they are sueing because their order was filled. They thought their would be more demand for the stock and ordered more then they really wanted only to cry when they got what they asked for. What a bunch of babies.

    Personally, I would never touch the company. In my eyes its like a massive version of the company Pandora. Besides, the flock birds used to all be perched on Myspace. Who’s to say the flock won’t fly again?

  108. I’m with you, Father Rabbit. I wouldn’t invest in Facebook either, mainly because I think it a pipe dream about income stream, few barriers to entry, and privacy issues becoming a much bigger concern and that’s what they are selling.

    But then Google proved me wrong and I didn’t think it would hold up like it did. Could have made a very handsome return, if one had purchased at the IPO.

    Who knows anymore?

  109. Regarding 122, Sandi, you’re doing some interpolation here.

    First, I did not say Trayvon “deserved to be shot”.
    Second, I did not say Zimmerman should be off the hook.
    Third, I favor decriminalization of marijuana.
    Fourth, I think the gun law in FL stinks.

    That’s not what this post is about. This post is about the uncomfortable topic that we liberals all too often shy away from which is that poor folks in this country, and disproportionately black folks, are judged by a standard that allows a lot of dysfunctional, IGNORANT behavior to get a free pass.

    If the media started out of the gate with “troubled teen shot by overzealous neighborhood watchman” we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Instead, we got “black choir boy shot by racist”. My anger in this post is probably as much self directed as anything else. I bought the story hook line and sinker …. and then as the media with their double standard, dribbled out the truth about Martin, I resisted viewing the kid realistically. So yes, finding out the dude got high for fun was my last straw.

    This post is an indictment against a community that turns the other way when their own act like fools (obscene Twitter handles and drug use) and then wonder when the kid ends up in a bad situation.

    Lastly, I must remind you, fuddy duddy though you may think I am, last time I looked, non-medicinal use of pot is illegal in this country. If you want to defend breaking the law, then that is another conversation entirely.

    P.S. I’m gonna send this response to you in a note privately also because I assume you had the good sense not to subscribe to the comments thread. 🙂

  110. Come on down, Sandi. Show us your superior intellect and swimming skills. The water is warm – we’ll let you stay in the shallow end where you belong. 😈

    Come on darlin’. Demonstrate to us how Obama is the austerity President to kick it off. I was too dumb to understand that dandy blog post of yours.

    Surely, a giant like you can dismantle us heartland Neanderthals and put us in our place – me, most of all!



  111. What a day, what a day. Whew! Glad it’s done.

    Suffice it to say I ended it well by gorging myself on 2.3 pounds of crab and now enjoying my 3rd cerveza and the crab craving is gone…

    …for a long time.


    How’s that shiny new lil rabbit?

  112. Ron Paul’s got the majority of delegates in 8 states, including Massachusetts.

    Buwahahahahahaahahah. 😆

  113. Noah, to answer your question, OWS is not OWS is not OWS. There is no doubt that OWS has seen some bad actors, big time. On the whole, the Tea Party Movement (when it was in the street and not in the House of Rep’s) was much better behaved.

    BUT the original ideal of the OWS movement is important and has changed the dialog in this country in an important way. I say more about this in this article which you probably haven’t read since you’re new to the blog.

    The only thing from that article that I would amend is my prediction that the dialog inspired by OWS is the death of Romney. Anger at Obama may run deep enough for the 1% v 99% argument to become moot.

  114. Speaking of which, have you had enough time to investigate and run away from Bubbles’ graph?

    No I haven’t had the time but just to please you, sometime in the next couple of days I plan to double down on Sandi’s proposition. 🙂

  115. Poolman, can you point me to a source that explains in plain English Ron Paul’s delegate shenanigans? I honestly don’t understand what he’s up to and how it could amount to anything in his favor.

  116. Rabbit, I originally had your thoughts regarding Facebook … a bunch of sour grapes investors who bet on a bad horse. But I think we’re both missing one ingredient. In pricing the IPO there may have been some dishonesty on the part of Facebook regarding their revenue. From what I understand that could be criminal.

  117. The black bloc does not represent OWS. They are cultivated anarchists who believe in violence. The are found in all global protests and give the police force reason to use force and riot gear.

    That is THEIR agenda. Repeat. They are not OWS. The OWS movement is peaceful and democratic. But with any “crisis” or event, people are staged to use it for other purpose.

    If you examine the laws being put in place to curtail public assembly and free speech, you can see the black bloc has succeeded in turning protest into acts of terror with escalated state and global response.

    Chicago just saw 75,000 protesters, mostly peaceful, with an infiltration of black bloc and their vandalism and violence – always well-documented and distributed to the mainstream media. OWS is the greatest threat right now to the PTB.

  118. Poolman, can you point me to a source that explains in plain English Ron Paul’s delegate shenanigans?

  119. Poolman, thanks for the comments on the Black Bloc. My response that the movement (OWS) has some bad actors should have been tempered with the reality that some of the bad actors do NOT represent the movement.

  120. Poolman, ok … thanks for the video. Makes sense now … but now we have to ask, how many delegates could really be persuaded to dump Romney for Paul? The other question I’d have is why haven’t other candidates like Gingrich or Santorum gone the same route (i.e. trying to lure delegates away from Romney)?

  121. “Thorm, why not just go with MSNBC’s or Sharpton’s version.” – ET

    I know you don’t believe me but, I watch very little MSNBC. I like the Alex show Now. She at least attempts to place opposing viewpoints on her panel. I did hear a Sharpton clip, possibly on Andy Dean’s show, saying all they wanted was “justice”. Careful what you wish for Al.

  122. Noah I see only one flaw with your picture. Shouldn’t it be Woodrow Wilson talking to Madison? Isn’t that when income tax began? The very definition of wealth redistribution.

  123. I get that for WWII we needed tax to fund the war effort. I government prior to that ran just fine. It has now morphed into an entity that can no longer function without it and needs to be reigned in. We can argue till the cows come home who we should assign blame to, but (A) that accomplishes what exactly?(No I am Really Asking) and (B) I think at the end of the day Obama intends to take us MUCH further down the path in the wrong direction..

  124. Mark, welcome to the blog. The total picture of Trayvon painted by his Twitter feed and Facebook account is one of a thug in training. Pot was just one part of a very dysfunctional path that this kid was on.

    Last time I looked, pot was illegal. No kid of mine breaks the law and gets a pat on the back from me. Would I really dump him in the river? No that was rhetoric on my part to make a point. But the hero worship for Trayvon has to stop.

    We’re dealing with thug wannabe meets cop wannabe. Bad combination. Tragedy could have been avoided if either of them had their head screwed on straight.

  125. Maybe Trayvon was a thug but smoking weed was no contributing factor, nor is his father having a girlfriend, which is a ridiculous assertion on your part. I smoked pot for 12 straight years and knew scores of people who smoked pot. I never met a pot-smoker who I would consider a thug. There is nothing morally wrong with smoking pot or having a girlfriend. Trayvon got shot probably because he used his fists instead of his head. I’m sure he could have easily talked his way out of the situation.

    I do believe Zimmerman’s been unfairly treated by the media. The facts support his side of the story.

  126. Trayvon got shot probably because he used his fists instead of his head.

    On this we completely agree. While I’m a liberal politically, I’m fairly conservative regarding lifestyle choices. I believe parents with impressionable children shouldn’t be shacking up. That may sound 1950’s to you but that’s where I’m at. As for pot, I’m not making a case that pot makes one violent. I’m simply saying pot smokers (including you for those 12 years) are breaking the law. Again, not a great thing for Trayvon to have on his resume.

    When poor lifestyle choices and a sub-optimal environment add up, the cumulative effect may well be using your fists instead of your head.

    On another note, if Zimmerman gets off on stand your ground, that will be a travesty because Zimmerman was the original “pursuer”. If he is acquitted on simple self defense, that may well be understandable once we see all the evidence.

  127. U are vile ass,hole most American kids black white asian or try drugs i guess we should all see our children as potential murder victims sad that i read your epic piece of shit

  128. Terry, if your use of punctuation is any evidence of your credibility I’m not too worried what you think of me.

    It might have been wise for you to read through the comment thread here before going on the attack. We will probably never know what happened between Trayvon and George. This jury has a tough job ahead of it.

    But I’ll tell you this much Terry, if your kid gets suspended for suspected robbery and pot possession and has the N word in his Twitter handle, you sure as hell better start paying attention. Trayon did NOT end his life on an upswing. He was headed for serious trouble. Sadly we will never know if it was just a phase and he could turn his life around. That is indeed a tragedy.

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