The Middle Class are the Job Creators

It’s hard to get to the bottom of a problem when ideology and greed get in the way. Nick Hanauer gave a short presentation at TED (Technology, Entertainment, Design), a forum known for presenting speakers interested in examining and solving problems. Unfortunately, TED’s curator deemed Hanauer’s presentation too political and refused to post the “TED Talk” to their web site. After some protests, TED compromised and released the video to YouTube, till refusing to carry it on their web site.

Hanauer’s talk is far from political. Yes, he mentions Republicans and Democrats but the crux of his presentation is so simple, so uncontroversial that anyone interested in seeking the truth about our economy should view it. The notion could not be simpler. Jobs are created when successful companies need to meet the demand for their services or products. Without the demand, primarily from the middle class, the company has no success and hires no one. Therefore, corporations are not job creators. Consumers are the job creators. In fact, corporations do NOT like creating jobs. They do it only to meet demand. Further, the rich aren’t rich enough to fuel the economy alone. What is needed is government investment in the middle class and the way to pay for that is taxation of those who can afford to pay the tax.

We can argue about whether or not government responsibly handles the tax revenue they get. But we cannot argue that lowering taxes on the rich is the solution. Hanauer proves in a simple and eloquent presentation that this approach has not worked.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

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150 thoughts on “The Middle Class are the Job Creators

  1. Rutherford, please. This was rank DNC propaganda. The guy is as clueless as you are, only he markets his crap better than you do, has gotten rich, has sheltered his money, therefore he is immune to tax increases. He’s a small fish in the Warren Buffett Bullshit pond.

    The man certainly is no economist. Best I could tell, he may have gotten one thing right. I’ll assume his $92K wage if wages had stayed constant with inflation is correct.

    How you could market this as apolitical is beyond me.

    ————

    I’ll pick this apart piece by piece as it goes through the thread. But the idiot has the cart in front of the horse.

    Here’s a heads up. If Obama obtained his “tax” the rich proposal, and I’ll assume we are talking about raising the top tax rate from 35.0% to 39.6%, it would take (not including the real value of money including interest which would make the payout infinite) 250 years to pay for this years Obama debt alone.

    You can’t even measure the increase in capital gains because people will simply defer the benefit. You have to measure the marginal return to calculate the inflow of monies. And that money has already been taxed once at 35%.

    Good grief. You are unteachable when it comes to government, wealth creation, and what drives supply. 🙄

    I get back to the observation I made some years ago and repeated a few weeks back. It is a miracle that you were able to obtain a degree in math and passed both calculus and differential equations. You would have flunked finance & economics 101.

  2. One way to improve the job outlook is to remove many of the regulations which constrain them. Another way is to create some confidence in the future. As of now, we don’t know what the taxation and other government policies will be two years from now. Businesses need more time to calculate the risks and benefits of hiring more people.

    Once taxes reach a threshold where they become intolerable large and small businesses either hide their income or decide expanding isn’t worth the effort. Businesses and people spend their expansion money in countries with more congenial business conditions.

    Rich people tend to flee onerous taxes. The British, for example believe a French invasion will equal the Viking invasion they now face.

  3. Tigre ….. incredibly ignorant for a laaawwwwwya. There is nothing in the six minutes of video that can be refuted. It’s just that straightforward. You won’t watch it because you “can’t handle the truth.”

  4. Tex, neither you nor James address the fundamental truth of the video. Corporations do NOT create jobs. In fact, Hanauer is right … corps hire JUST enough to get the job done and no more. They don’t want to create jobs. So job creation must be a response to consumer demand. Consumer demand is a product of need for the item and ability to pay for it.

    So long as wages stagnate and the cost of living increases, demand will be suboptimal and job creation will not happen. All this baloney about uncertainty and over-regulation dodges the very simple fact that a poor citizenry will not buy a thing.

    Lowering taxes on the rich will not fix the problem. I won’t even argue that raising taxes on the rich solves the problem.

    So what do we do???? Maybe it’s unrelated to taxation altogether?

  5. “Tigre ….. incredibly ignorant for a laaawwwwwya. There is nothing in the six minutes of video that can be refuted. It’s just that straightforward. You won’t watch it because you “can’t handle the truth.”

    Our dialogues on economics are numerous. I have pointed you to multiple sources and posed numerous questions. You fall silent every time, then latch on to something that support your liberal view and claim it represents the “truth.”

    So you like Keynesian economics? You like MMT? You don’t believe Milton Friedman because. . .

    R, you’re good man. But your assessment of economic concepts should make it against the law to tell me that I can’t “handle the truth.”

    So how did you find and why do you like this video that even TED wouldn’t post?

    Plus, where’s my Zimmerman post. Bait and swith?

  6. I think Hanauer is right.

    From my marketing background, the most important thing is to create or find the market. That most often means consumers. It may take entrepreneurs to establish the companies to supply the market and that may employ people, but the market determines that potential.

    Good post, Rutherford. This will send those fair weather conservatives and wannabe one percenters into fits. 😀

  7. Wasn’t it Rutherford who ripped Bush for pleading for Americans to keep spending as usual?

    Your right Rutherford. Demand is part of the equation. So is taking risk with the hope of capturing this fickle demand. The shit is produced before it’s bought, Harrrrvaaaad.

    But keep going sensico on us while your money printing fiat whore president keeps growing the debt bomb on my two year old son so that the Wallstreet hand job can continue uninterrupted until the most pathetic generation get the luxury of death with their collective O face on.

  8. Tigre, in answer to the question where did I find the video … I subscribe to a blog called “My Mental Dumping Ground” which is essentially a video blog. The blog owner is a liberal I “met” on Twitter. The blog post was title something like “The Silenced TED Video” but he never explained how it was “silenced”. So off to the trusty Google I went to find the story.

  9. Corporations exist for one reason, Rutherford. To create wealth for their shareholders. Period. And you and the loony marketing guy are still under the false pretense that capitalism is a zero sum game. That speech is nothing but an applause line to a bunch of gullible wanna bee stooges hearing what they want to hear, that are really bad at math and finance.

    I don’t know how you can tell me I can’t refute a thing he says. Quite the contrary, I can’t find a thing he’s got right.

    Please try to understand this. Without it, you’ll go to the grave still deprived and wanting. I really am trying here.

    What you and this dunce are saying without either of you recognizing it is pure Keynesian economics. You’ve seen that the last three years. It hasn’t worked now, it hasn’t worked since the Great Society, it didn’t work for FDR. Segmenting out some nebulous “rich” to tax is the last gasp of a failed ideology and the last acceptable paradigm of attempt one last failed promise. What is it you don’t get about the expense of debt without creating capital equity as offset?

    Supply meeting demand creates jobs. leading to wealth. Wealth creates a need for facilitation or means to service the supply, leading to the creation of jobs, leading to disposable income by new jobs – in that order. You and the loon are trying to attempt to make capitalism work backwards. You believe if we can create a market by government intervention by reallocating disposable income, then demand will increase which will create wealth, which will create jobs. You’re attempting to have government act as the market and that is at best a zero sum game. That’s the game Obama has played. It is statism pure and simple. There’s not example in all of recorded history where it has worked to any degree.

    Yes, government provides some of the basic infrastructure to make logistics possible. Yes, it allocates mass services by minimizing personal risk due to what I’ll call economies of scale. We all share in that risk. Government has a role – but its biggest role should be to make the environment as friendly as possible for those who create the jobs – massive new regulation and meddling is a cost that creates nothing. What you are doing is without measuring the cost, is attempting to remove all risk for all parties. And what you are really doing is producing disincentives for those with disposable income.

    Capitalism cannot work that way.

    What you and your friend are telling me in a nutshell is this.

    For each marginal dollar of income available, government is more efficient and effective in allocating that dollar for the creation of aggregate wealth than the private market and its citizenry.

    Nanny government trumps free enterprise. Period. That makes no more sense than telling us the fastest way for the economy to rebound is extending unemployment benefits. And if you believe that, then you are an enabler of dependency which is exactly what Obama has created. One massive dependency on the state.

    Now you answer one of my questions for once. At least make the attempt. How is taxing the rich going to pay for Obama’s massive debt accumulation? I just provided the math from above. You were a math major. Solve the problem for me. How do you take an additional estimated $5 billion in revenue per year all things equal to pay for $1200 billion of debt?

  10. Rabbit, this is why we can’t have an apolitical conversation on the matter because guys like you want to conflate unemployment with the debt and the deficit.

    They are entirely different matters. The sh*t is NOT produced if the demand is not there so you’re basically wrong. Sure, a new product is produced in limited production to test the market. And when consumers have no money that “risk” you talk about becomes exponentially greater. Then, production stops and the product fails.

    Hanauer does not address outsourcing in those six minutes. The first thing we need to do is make it VERY unpleasant for companies to outsource jobs. That would start us on the road to job creation at home.

    BTW … Bush encouraging spending? Wow did you reach for that one. That relates how? The objection to Bush was that during a war, we don’t lower taxes and we ask for sacrifice from the citizenry. We don’t tell them “nothing to see here.” The result is a small percentage of the populace being deployed repeatedly while the rest of the country doesn’t really give a sh*t when you get right down to it.

    Ahhhh, but you’ve achieved your goal. You got me off topic. This is what you guys do …. lower taxes on the rich to create jobs. Then when you’re proven wrong on that strategy, you divert to the deficit, the debt, and cries of BDS.

  11. Sounds like we have no solution then Tex. I will grant you that Hanauer did not prove how greater taxation of the rich will help. In fact, in the article I acknowledge that government may not be able to responsibly deploy tax revenue.

    But Hanauer does prove that lowering taxes on the rich in the hope they use their new found money to hire is just as much folly. Without a vibrant middle class, CEO’s have no one to sell to and therefore no reason to employ anyone. That truth is as clear as the nose on your face. That is why I posted the video, because if we put aside Hanauer’s solution (which he doesn’t dwell on) and just take his observation on job creation, there is simply no getting around it.

    Fox News Neil Cavuto went after Hanauer on taxation and I confess, Hanauer didn’t have a good cogent answer on why and how much to tax the rich. But he is still right about what spurs the economy. It’s consumer demand.

  12. Damn Rutherford. You have a hole in your head three inches wide. Come on. You’re not this dense.

    because guys like you want to conflate unemployment with the debt and the deficit.

    WRONG WRONG WRONG. They are intertwined along with Obamacare. Rabbit is right. You cannot separate the two, because the additional debt (a cost) and the additional interest expense (a cost) and exposure of Obamacare, in conjunction with more regulation is exactly what is spooking corporations and small business.

    So they wring out of the remaining employees what they can get. But you forget one thing.

    Productivity is also going down or flat under Obama. His entire regime has been one economic disaster, and you’re looking for an exit under the guise of soaking the rich. It won’t work and in fact, will make things worse.

  13. Rabbit …. present demand, future demand, in a f*cked up economy both are not there.

    In the words of the Sex Pistols, “noooooo future for you.”

  14. R, jobs are an expense to business, just not the only expense. If the other expenses get too high, then the ability of the business to hire goes down. Therefore, the more government costs you have, the less people a business can hire.

    Secondly, business relies on credit for growth. Credit is based on risk. Massive personal and government debt diminishes the ability of lenders to lend because they must balance their existing debt with holdings. However, if their holdings are made up of largely bad debt, they can’t do anything with it, which means they can’t lend cash, business can’t grow and therefore people don’t get new jobs.

    If you think government spending is the answer, then I forward to you explaining Greece, California, and Detroit to us all.

    Sure, your guy is right in that consumers must have a need for business to fill for there to be economic activity, but what he is getting wrong is that government does not increase that demand, it hurts it.

  15. Please watch the Neil Cavuto video that I posted and answer Hanauer’s question.

    Where is this ideal society with low taxes, low regulation, low government intervention and skyrocketing employment and GDP? Point me to the country we should emulate and not to a fantasy economic model that hasn’t worked in the past.

  16. We are the most successful financial country in the history of human civilization. WE are the model, which is why WE are getting tired of YOU trying to push failed socialist structures.

    Explain Greece, California and Detroit please…

  17. As the saying goes, “We are who we’ve been waiting for”.

    If your theory worked, then why is it that when Maryland and New York raised taxes on millionaires, they actually say the tax revenue go down. It was one of the very first things that Cuomo did when he became Governor of New York, which was rescind the millionaire tax.

    Your theory sucks R, and history has demonstrated the suckiness of it for many, many years…

  18. Point me to the country we should emulate and not to a fantasy economic model that hasn’t worked in the past.

    United States of American – circa 1981-1989. In fact, it was so good, it continued on for another 12 years, with only a minor blip recession in 1991. You could add in after WWII, but we had one advantage as a nation. No competition until at least the mid 1960s.

    2001 was an anomaly of a tech bubble propelled by careless spending in late ’90s and the internet bubble, plus 9/11. The market may have cratered, and NASDAQ obviously overblown, but the job market didn’t.

    Capitalism, best I can see it has only one major crack – it’s fail flaw is that the players must be honest. Take that away and you’ve 2008 in spades.

    If you want to take a few cracks at Wall Street and Congress – have at it and I’ll be on board. Just make sure you include the millions of dishonest scam artists flipping houses, and those who had no business buying a home to begin with.

    The blame doesn’t reside solely with just the execs.

  19. Rutherford.

    This is a chicken and the egg argument. Did the person in need create the business providing the service, or did the business providing a service create the need by the end user.

    The argument goes as follows.
    Premise: True
    Premise: True
    Conclusion: False
    Statement is False

    Business is not a public service. A business exists to provide goods and/or a service. They do so to make a profit to sustain themselves. There should be no limit to the amount of profit a company can generate as long as it plays by the rules.

    That said a business does not operate in a vacuum. It utilize the infrastructure the government makes sure is in place to assist us all and as such a business has a responsibility to contribute to that infrastructure to insure it stays in place. That number should be quantifiable based on the businesses need to tax(use) that system. Beyond that there is no good argument that I am aware of to penalize a business for being too successful beyond a certain point.

    The guy may have been well spoken, but little of what he said made actual sense.

  20. Europe is literally imploding in front of our eyes due to Rutherford’s policy and the guy is requesting examples to prove him wrong.

    Rutherford. Its not complicated. There is no free lunch. Money does not grow on trees. Well, I take that last one back.

    Producers are the only ones who produce. Any and every resource the government uses comes from a producer and the jobs they create. You act like wealth is some capture the flag game, a white flag blowing in the wind independent and autonomous. Dude. Risk takers busting their ass create wealth.

  21. Rutherford I don’t know how we’re to have an apolitical conversation on a subject that is entirely political in nature.
    In answer to your earlier question I’d point to
    http://www.heritage.org/index/
    Just scanning through the top ten shows you how the USA although in the high tier probably shouldn’t be.
    I’d invite anyone to pick any three nations out of the top 20 and think on ’em for awhile.
    Sure some have National Health,others don’t. Most have lower tax rates than the USA though and their spending/GDP ratio trend to the positive.
    Regulatory and financial freedom equal or often exceed that of the USA.
    The Hanouer guy is a douche compared to reality.

  22. Head-up-the-ass syndrome is apparently contagious. I just got back in and read all the comments. Sheesh. You guys really must like smelling your own shit. Probably think it doesn’t stink either.

    I have a small business. I build swimming pools. I moved to the best market for my product. There was a time when what I do made millionaires out of people. I have no problem with making big bucks and no problem paying the taxes on capital gains. The more I make, the more taxes I SHOULD pay. Has absolutely NOTHING to do with employing people or creating jobs.

    If I can do the job by myself and fill the demand, I won’t hire anyone. I own the business. I will work 24/7 if need be to cover all the bases.

    Now if the demand for my product increases, I will need to hire help. So the DEMAND for my service would create another job. That employee is a deductible business expense. EVERY CENT I PAY TO AN EMPLOYEE I CAN DEDUCT. Does the employee cost me more that he/she earns? YES, big time. But it’s STILL deductible.

    The people buying my product are middle to upper class. THEY are creating the jobs by their demand of my services. Period.

    Now if I want to invest money in marketing to try to get a bigger share of the market, my risk. If I am successful and have to hire more help, it isn’t me that created the jobs, even if I sign the paycheck.

    Really, I’m for NO INCOME TAX. Just as Dr Paul advocates. But income tax is an entirely different thing. Use taxes, sales taxes, corporate taxes, are all legitimate and only effect those doing business.

  23. Cracks me up that socialist morons like Obama and his new French buddy are saying austerity isn’t the solution because its not fun. Of course its not fun. And of course the masses will seeth with anger. But its the only option outside of destroying the global basket of currancies and global depression.

    We need a conservative president and Congress all willing to lose elections and be cursed for a decade. The politician version of a guy who gives his life for his country. I was hoping the Tea Party could bring this about. No go.

    Instead we got this wannabe cult of personality douche bag for a President. This sucks.

  24. R, answer me this, since we know he doesn’t bury cash in mason jars, what does Hanauer do with the money that he does not consume and why?

    If this is an argument for putting more spending power in the hands of ordinary people, why is he advocating putting more in the hands of the government. The government isn’t the type of consumer that drives the demand he is talking about. No one, including the government, was demanding cars, phonographs, radios, TVs, personal computers, cell phones or iPods when they were brought to market. Innovation and economic advancement requires taking a risk that only demand will sustain, but it’s not government spending that will create the demand.

    He’s advocating socialism. No wonder it sounds so pleasing to your ears. 🙄

    Dumb.

  25. There you go, Rutherford. Poolman backs your conclusion – I guess. It’s hard to decipher a man’s post who thinks he can pick the turd at the clean end.

    Rabbit is right. At the very least, this pseudo socialism light you, Chris Hayes, and your clever buddy here espouse is already on trial in Europe. Told the Lumberjack Graychin that over three years ago, and he didn’t get it either. Bet he does now.

    Rutherford, spending is the problem. Obama spends $4.1 billion more than he takes in a day. His tax the rich plan over the entire year if passed will pay for about 26 hours of the debt Obama accrues.

    If debt your buddy is right – the market driven by consumer demand, we can solve that problem now. Bump our personal credit limit and each of us spend like mad, emulating Nanny Government. That should put the economy in warp drive.

    Right?

  26. Bump our personal credit limit and each of us spend like mad

    Wrong. Make wages keep up with the cost of living. The only reason we’ve become a credit society is our salaries haven’t kept up with the cost of goods and services. This can be partly traced back to corporate greed.

  27. I made a key error in this article. I did not criticize Hanauer enough for his failure to explain why taxing the wealthy would do any good. He does not spell out what “investment” he wants to see the government make.

    Truth is, I’ve heard enough pro and con arguments over the past few years to come to the conclusion that taxation and employment are hardly related at all, and the connection is fabricated and exploited by both political parties for purely political reasons.

    Our country has been highly successful at times of high taxation (Eisenhower era) and low taxation. I believe taxation is a separate issue.

    My start of a solution is:

    1. Stop shipping jobs overseas.
    2. Be a bit less greedy, dip into that profit margin a bit, and pay your employees a competitive wage.

    That is the way to inject money into consumer’s wallets so they can buy the products that companies have to offer, and create sufficient demand for those companies to have to hire in order to keep up.

    Hanauer screws the pooch with his “solution”. His solution clouds what is otherwise a straightforward analysis that is as true as the sun rising in the East.

    People without money don’t buy sh*t. Companies who can’t sell sh*t don’t hire people. BAM! It’s so simple it’s like a bullet in the face. How you guys (except Poolman, God bless him) can refuse to see this is beyond me.

    Note: with a hungry and ready to spend consumer base, you can indeed f*ck things up with too much regulation and taxation. But we don’t have that scenario and tending to regulation/taxation without addressing how to create the consumer base, does not solve the problem. It does allow corporations to create more wealth for themselves and their share holders without having to sell more product or hire more people.

  28. Bottom line … you guys don’t have anything on Hanauer cos you don’t have a solution. But let’s divert the argument.

    Let’s pay our national debt. bring down the deficit and ignore millions of unemployed folks. Oh, and while we’re at it, let’s call anyone who would like government to help us out of this, a socialist.

    Yup … that’s a winning strategy.

  29. By the way, Rabbit do you expect the unemployment rate to go down under an austerity program? Please explain to me how that will happen. Romney is not telling people “we need austerity, everyone will suffer for a while, unemployment will remain high, but we’ll come out of it at the other end better than we are now.” Romney is saying he’s a job creator.

    He’s full of sh*t.

  30. Here’s the market where we are extremely profitable. The terror market is major!

    Just recently, three major military contractors announced their first-quarter profits for 2012, with Lockheed Martin raking in $668M, Northrop Grumman making $506M and Boeing , an astonishing $923M. These numbers are made all the more jaw-dropping when you consider that these are only three corporations, claiming profits made in only three months, during a “War on Terror” that has been ongoing for almost 11 years now.

    http://americanfreepress.net/?p=4096

  31. R, I love when you accuse us of ignoring an argument or what you believe a universal truth when it is you that is doing it .I can’t believe you’re enamored with this. I really can’t.

    Do you really think that Hanauer’s concept novel? Really? You’re fascinated by this? Capital investment does NOT create jobs. Innovation does NOT create jobs because there’s no current demand. He’s like Galileo? Damn. Labeling his simplistic version of economics “socialism” isn’t a slight. It is fucking socialism. And pure, unadulterated politics. TED unloaded it with good reason.

    I posed a question. No
    response.

  32. Make wages keep up with the cost of living. The only reason we’ve become a credit society is our salaries haven’t kept up with the cost of goods and services. This can be partly traced back to corporate greed.

    In other words, we won’t give shareholders or the people we’ve chosen to govern these places of business a voice, other than to tell them to eat it. And we’ll let tyrannical government bureaucrats, perhaps you can be one, decide what employees salaries will now be.

    Yeah, that’s the ticket to solving our problems. And you wonder why corporations won’t hire and why small businesses are folding shop, or moving South? Next up on the list – state and higher education bail outs.

    Punish the responsible investor because we lived within our means and took a risk with a few of our hard earned dollars in an investment called common stock, but you never had the opportunity because you needed a mansion. So we got to even things up. Why don’t you just stroll through my house and take want you want while you’re at it?

    Rutherford, the problem with America is you. There are millions like you.

    Here’s a couple of novel ideas. First, why don’t you convince these families that have bred this irresponsibility to care for their own instead of demanding strangers do it? Second, why don’t you step up to the plate and adopt a couple of these sperm donor or breeder types? Because after all, you liberals care about the poor folk – as long as they don’t obtain or make more than you.

    Rutherford, you’re not a bad sort of guy in the guy likeable sense. But you’re fundamentally unAmerican. And when the curtain drawn, you and your ilk really aren’t much different than the thieves that kick in your door and help themselves to our possessions.

    That used to be called dishonest. Now it’s referred to as a host of purty sounding euphemisms: social justice, helping the middle class, fairness.

  33. Here’s the epitome of muddled thinking liberalism. One that is really bad at math.

    Just recently, three major military contractors announced their first-quarter profits for 2012, with Lockheed Martin raking in $668M, Northrop Grumman making $506M and Boeing , an astonishing $923M.

    Let’s take Boeing, since it’s the most fascist because it showed almost a billion dollar profit. Damn those for profit companies and damn those dividends to investors that pay for the consumer spending. Boeing employes approximately 158,000 people – most in high wage jobs. FASCISTS!!!!

    Obama spends 1,200 times what Boeing made in the 1st quarter of taxpayer money on a “stimulus” which employed….employed…emp…
    That’s not important.

    Those terrorist funded 777’s are bad too.

  34. Rutherford I’m lost in your #36
    First and foremost stop the dream,lie bullshit thing about the Ike years. NOBODY PAID THE RATE. REPEAT NOBODY PAID THE RATE.
    Second do you really buy into the thought that we’ve off shored more jobs than for a lack of a better term have outsourced to technology? If you want to hold onto the offshoring argument you must and I mean absolutely MUST embrace a position that demands Operation Wetback level immigration actions. Calling Gen. Swing?!
    I respect that you are conflicted,you being a progressive and all that.
    Here’s some more conflict for you. At what point on a pay scale should a janitor or stock boy max out? Seriously there has to be a ceiling and sadly,realistically it can’t be the fabled “living wage”.

    I think I’d really enjoy a deeper conversation on this with you i think you would be surprised by some of the twists and turns. Suffice to say the answers are not easy ones.

  35. Mark Zuckerberg: example of somebody who left Harvard. Elizabeth Warren (and Rutherford Lawson): example of somebody who stayed there. ~ David Burge, Iowahawk

  36. Another Great Obama ACComplishment! His first one, actually. Summa Cum, Valedictorian HOORAY!

    The law, one of the signature legislative achievements of Obama’s administration, was known as the “Lilly Ledbetter Law,” after a Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co worker who had lost her claim of pay discrimination before the Supreme Court because she waited too long to sue. The law loosened the statute of limitations for such lawsuits.

    “First off, Republicans believe in equal pay for equal work, But in 2009, Democrats didn’t bother to work with Republicans on this or other issues, and passed a bill that’s a trial lawyer’s dream. All it does is open the door to more lawsuits and make it harder for job creation.” ~ Republican Representative Cathy McMorris Rodgers

  37. @ Rutherford,just in case we never have a chance for the deeper conversation I should offer this.
    The fact that the USA embraced the consumer driven economic model so fully is more the cause of our collective situation than it can be the solution. We cannot spend our way out of this.
    Either Presidential candidate has potential platform planks that could address this,or even exasperate it. Neither of them can do any good though unless the population wakes up to some basic truths though.

  38. Rutherford
    I am going to assume you have seen the video Eat The Rich. Taking that into account, how is anything Obama has done or wants to do sustainable in any way?

    Every time $1 goes through a level of government, nickles and dimes of that money evaporates into nothingness. Nothing is made, no one is helped. Nothing productive comes from all the effort that the economy used to produce that wealth. It is completely wasted. One would think that we would want to avoid something like this at all cost, not make more of it.

    End of the day Taxing companies at any rate, even at Frances 75% is a moot point. You cannot have more people in need than those providing. Redistribution just doesn’t work. You always get less out than you put in.

    To the notion of who is a job creator. I owned a store. I put up 50k of my own money to open said store + a bank note. I hired 6 people to work for me. I created those jobs. I took the risk. I deserved to make an obscene amount of money if my risk pays off. Why do you feel otherwise?

  39. R, Greece is the epitome of your argument. Government funded middle class. You say national debts don’t matter, yet Greece is about to be kicked out of the EU- and may be the triggle for the collapse of the Euro writ large- and relegated to third world financial status. Guess what, that’s gonna matter.

    You’ve avoided my points about NY and MD. Likewise, you’ve ignored CA, Greece and Detroit. Why?

    Who determines what a competitive wage is? Why do I make more than several of my peers but less than others? Do you think pay for government employees is inflated or supressed compared to private sector peers? There is a UCLA study that specifically talks to government inflated private sector pay. The study concluded that FDR’s policies extended the Great Depression by 7 years. How do you like those apples?

  40. Rutherford,
    The one truth in your post is the need for a strong middle class to achieve prosperity. Alfie posted an excellent link on his blog regarding California and the consequences of loosing it’s middle class. However, it’s also the one class that is willing to adopt austere methods in down times which does not bode well for the current economic situation.

  41. I agree with Ragi. Another point is a survey showing conservative states have on the whole, created more jobs than liberal states. A blog showed pictures of Detroit, a city long run by liberals and compared them with photos taken in East Germany about when Communism fell. Why?

  42. It is perhaps unfair to link this question to the political ideology of R,thor and questionably pools and it has to be granted that it is classic political-ese but WTF does:

    “Investment initiatives can be financed using a range of mechanisms, including leveraging the private sector.”

    mean???!!!
    I believe it is Messr Hollande that owns this.

  43. Do you really think that Hanauer’s concept novel?

    Did I say that? In fact I used the word “simple” so many times, an English teacher would have docked me a grade for lack of vocabulary. Simple cannot be novel.

    Your denial of the basic premise of job creation is akin to denying the sky is blue on a clear day.

  44. Your denial of the basic premise of job creation is akin to denying the sky is blue on a clear day. I’m in and out all day R but just in case you care to apply that to me please also respond to #48 in some manner. Hope the weather is a nice in all your zippier as it is here,even if it means I’m doing yard work…

  45. Tigre, you say you’re waiting for an answer to your question. Reread comment 36. I’m not going to litigate raising taxes on the rich. But I am going to stick to my guns that corporations don’t create jobs. That’s not socialism, it’s economic fact.

    Hanauer says something very interesting … job creator comes damn close to “the creator”. This job creator notion deifies corporations unjustly. You and others here have rightly said corps are in it for profits and to please their shareholders. They’re not employment agencies. So let’s stop calling them “job creators”.

  46. Rutherford says:
    They’re not employment agencies. So let’s stop calling them “job creators”.
    I’d like to help here.
    They’re not employment agencies. True enough they are not.
    So let’s stop calling them “job creators”. No! They are indeed job creators and this is where the rubber meets the road for the left/right divide.
    Left firmly believe in the zero sum notion. Finite points be it money or jobs. Because of that they have a skewed view on jobs. Like jobs are a right or even worse a finite entity out there in the word waiting for its pairing by the divine.

    Consumers produce demand.Nothing else.
    To address the demand (need,desire) supply is created.
    That which creates the supply creates the x factor aka jobs to do so.
    Consumers are not to be confused with the suppliers.

  47. In keeping with the spirit of the post and the news headlines. Facebook ipo greatly overvalued but hey its a consumer driven economy thing.
    Keep in mind one things folks re Facebook (and google too)…YOU ARE NOT THE CONSUMER….YOU ARE THE PRODUCT!!!

  48. @ Alfie # 55 thanks for the link. Last paragraph interesting as it had been indicated that G8 was going to venture there.

    “Given the importance of intellectual property rights (IPR) to stimulating job and economic growth, we affirm the significance of high standards for IPR protection and enforcement, including through international legal instruments and mutual assistance agreements, as well as through government procurement processes, private-sector voluntary codes of best practices, and enhanced customs cooperation, while promoting the free flow of information. To protect public health and consumer safety, we also commit to exchange information on rogue internet pharmacy sites in accordance with national law and share best practices on combating counterfeit medical products.”

  49. I say we outlaw inflation. 🙄

    R, my question was about what Haney did with the income he didn’t consume and why.

    Forget it. It’ll be too long of a walk for you.

    p.s. I said “novel” not “simple.” Forget that too. I should’ve trusted my initial judgment and avoided this altogether.

  50. @Raji 62
    Unfortunately the truth filled money quote was left out.
    “…however we are in agreement that we will not confront China in any meaningful way,on piracy or anything else.”

  51. Sorry that’s all me Raji but I think it is a legitimate line of thinking.
    Although the issues China presents are often seen as a USA concern the Europeans have something at stake regards Beijing too.
    China being of the export driven economy (like Germany) needs consumers and resources,hence their investments in Africa. That plus jockeying for relevancy in matters such as Iran (who have oil China wants badly,so much better than the Nigerian and Sudanese stuff) plus the fact that Chinese companies have infiltrated many a European center of manufacturing and you get tension and concerns.
    China is in my opinion a bigger concern for the USA and we have indeed turned our attention to the avenue that could get ugly,see the Southeast Asia arms race.

  52. Rutherford, yeah austerity will be brutal. Not only am I ok with more unemployment I’d be ok with losing my own job. Its going to be Memorial Day soon. A day when we remember motherfuckers who got mowed down on Omaha Beach. They died for our country. Certainly I could lose my pusy job for a year or two to save our children.

  53. Rutherford in all seriousness…. I noted on your bubble blowing bubble head cohort page she doesn’t like the GOP attempt to insert 8 billion in additional funding to the defense budget. Thats an executive thing since Reid and the (D)’s still haven’t passed a budget.
    My question is does this apply to you too?
    Either way its a great example of leftist retardation and dishonesty.
    Political desire to install 8 bln to defense is heinous? The thought of austerity scary? Seems like a contradiction of sorts since part of the 8 billion is designed to prevent austerity measures along the lines of ship decommissioning,base closures and making veterans pay more for their healthcare.
    The Left is so fucking dishonest it is shocking.
    On a side note, worst SecNav evah Mabus is looking to have a Great Green Fleet. One of the ships which is to demonstrate the potential of this feat is USS Princeton CG 59. It will doing a tour to the Pacific using a biofuel mix that goes for $26/gallon. The Princeton is one of the ships the big mean GOP’ers are trying to save… the budget calls for its decommissioning in 2013.

  54. Any thread folks have a take on the hypocrisy of the Dems tapping the Strategic Petroleum Reserve?
    The latest run to the reserve is an alleged joint venture with the UK to effect international fuel prices.
    I seem to recall a lot of oily screeching from the (D)’s back in the days of W.

  55. Tigre follow the conversation. You said I found Hanauer’s piece “novel”. I didn’t. On the contrary I found it simple not novel. Where did I lose you?

    Hanauer probably tax sheltered the money he didn’t consume. Happy?

  56. Off topic, I’m watching an almost 69 year old Mick Jagger singing “It’s Only Rock ‘n’ Roll” backed by Foo Fighters. I have mixed feelings about it. Dude looks kinda silly.

  57. Dude probably does look silly. You have to admire his persistence and enthusiasm, though.

    This discussion will be accademic by 2020 or so. Circumstances will force us to print so much money we will pay for hamburgers with pickup truck loads of cash, or we will cut dependent folks loose because all of the money will be payng interest.

    Jim Morrison, a contemporary of Jaggers’ sang “This is the end.”

  58. Rutheford.
    I’ve seen surprisingly little in the way of responses on this subject. After all that has been said, are you still of the opinion this guy has the right idea? If so could you articulate why. For me it flies in the face of common sense, logic, and not to mention math. Would really appreciate your point of view that will show how this can be accepted as being correct.

  59. “Hanauer probably tax sheltered the money he didn’t consume. Happy?”

    No. He probably invests it was the point.

    I was not looking for hypocrisy. I made the mistake of initially thinking you could ponder the economics of capital investment.

    I realized quickly that you can’t because you fall into the politics of it that, laughably, is why the guy’s piece was not aired on TED and you refuse to recognize.

    I also didn’t realize novel and simple were antonyms. The intro talks about his so-called theory akin to Galileo’s. You took the time post this stupid thing then hold it out as expressing an irrefutable truth. So simple you apparently think it overlooked by real economists. . .and conservatives. . . and everything. 😆

    R, you are so economically illiterate that you don’t even know when it’s just b.s. “tax the rich” propaganda. Quit wagging your finger. When it comes to this, you are a useful idiot.

  60. I see the wack jobs in Chicago are chanting “war is debt”. That’s the smartest chant I’ve ever heard the OWS anarchist pinko weed smokers yell to date. Just having debt on their radar is a positive development.

  61. @deadrabbit I doubt they are focused on debt more than war. They accept the former with smiles if it was for them. The latter they think gives them relevance and moral standing.

  62. The Occupy G8 manifesto:

    *Build the international economy from the bottom up, not the top down.
    *Highlight the wealth divide that undermines the foundation of the economy and corrupts political decision-making.
    *Increase the minimum wage, end poverty and reduce debt to provide a stronger foundation on which to build a new sustainable economy.
    *Institute a Robin Hood Tax on the purchase of stocks, bonds and derivatives.
    *Build a new economy that is both economically and environmentally sustainable.
    *Build wealth at the base by encouraging worker owned co-ops and other democratized economic institutions; and by turning corporate welfare into taxpayer investment where everyone profits from the investment by the commonwealth, not just the corporate owners.
    *Recognize that we all share a common destiny and that even the wealthiest require the commonwealth in order to increase their riches.
    Let’s have a thread election kind of thing. Who subscribes to these points,who does not? Are they good/bad? Unrealistic,dangerous?

  63. With Chicago in police state fascist mode, the next few weeks will be very interesting. They have been pre-arresting people that they think may lead protests, holding at least 8 with no charges. Groups have been infiltrated and some of the infiltrators have been exposed.

    The Occupy G8 manifesto? Where did you find that?

    The problem with the information most are getting is it isn’t real. The OWS is probably the most hijacked and misrepresented movement to date, with many resources being utilized to stop and discredit it. The movement also has had thousands of arrests, most of those people held were denied any rights, and lawsuits are mounting.

    Welcome to the coming chaos. Hopefully the many warnings of a planned false flag attack will keep the perpetrators from performing it. Best chance however is this Tuesday.

  64. So Alfie, is 79 your summation of the 20 items listed as the agenda on the “issues” page in the link provided of this one particular group aligned with OWS?

    These are four people who have a common goal and formed a website. Many of their goals align with others represented in the OWS movement.

  65. Oh, I see. It sounds pretty socialist to me.

    And yes, we do judge people by the company they keep and the views they share. Seems like a reasonable gauge. But it requires an impartial judge to make any accurate assessments. That is generally where we fall short.

    I believe we will be judged by our words and actions. But that won’t be a human making that judgment.

  66. http://www.natochannel.tv/?uri=channels/381662/1661492
    for an example of the MENSA types standing in the Chicago sun.

    About the only thing positive I can say about the protesters in the Windy City is that they are being forced to criticize Obama since he not Bush embraced NATO’s transition into a Wilsonian war machine. I’ve yet to hear an Obamabot put it in so many words. On second thought I imagine they don’t know it to be true.

    Pools…Do you embrace socialism,is it somehow your Paul paradox?
    That’s a serious question btw.

  67. Alfie, socialism happens when communities form common institutions. We are quite socialist in many ways. Police, fire departments, public education, roadways, etc.

    I don’t think any form of human government is perfect. Right now, I advocate minimal government, a backing away from much of the nanny state we have, and return to a republic with states and communities forming their own social structures.

    I definitely oppose our imperialism and FP that does not align with our constitution or any form of conservatism.

    Obama is the first NATO president. He is doing the bidding of the NWO who put him in that position. That has been proven in his actions and allegiances.

  68. This is OT, but is very good. Our pastor and his wife are doing a series on relationships and last night/this morning’s message was on a marriage and had a clip of this guy’s lecture. I thought it was good and wanted to share…

  69. “Governments are being thrown out of office in Europe and there are protests around the world against austerity. We stand with the people against the looting class.” – Occupy G8
    Source: PR Newswire (http://s.tt/1c361

    My questions for the Occupy G8 Manifesto
    1. Source of $$ ?
    2. Source of $$ ?
    3. Is Robin Hood going to tax the worker’s pensions?
    4. Source of $$ ?
    5. Source of $$ ?
    6. No need of $$ to agree

  70. @poolman :we have different opinions/definitions of socialism
    @raji and anyone else for clarification: I don’t want anyone to get hit for my use of terms. I called it the G8 Manifesto on a political and literary note. It struck me as such a hat tip to Marxist ideology and assorted other radical nuttiness.
    The authors do not call it so and to my knowledge OWS “officialdom” have tried to distance themselves from previous “manifestos” supplied to the media or shown online etc. Ironically they also try to distance themselves from their genesis entity Adbusters but what can you do.
    With that said to Raji I seriously believe all Occupy types and their affiliated brethren, no matter how loose the affiliation, believe the Robin Hood or Tobin Tax scenario is the be a great cure all. I am of the opinion that either would dramatically impact the world economy in a highly negative manner.

  71. Obviously, I was being a bit tongue-in-check in #89. The problem with all such manifestoes they sound good on paper and pump up adrenaline just like a good politician does. Yes, we need some serious reforms in our country. Our financial institutions need checks and balances. They have become the casinos of Las Vegas. Corporations should be held responsible to their stockholders unless they promote themselves as high risk venture businesses and then it’s buyer beware. The pork needs to be taken out of government, etc. My main problem with all the occupy movements is this “protest against austerity.”

  72. Wow, NATO TV. I’m certain they wouldn’t have an agenda. 🙄 Their videos lay in on pretty thick. Do you share their views?

  73. @93 I thought so but I don’t want to send falsehoods out or cause others to be pegged by my word choices.
    @92 I’m sure NATO TV has some sort of agenda but I found nothing egregious in their presentation as it pertained to NATO and the view of a sampling of the protesters,which was kind of the point of my comment.
    As far as me and NATO. I believe in treaties for any number of reasons especially seeing as my guiding mantra is Sovereignty Matters. I believe in NATO’s original purpose and I believe it properly observed the Charter in its actions in Afghanistan and with a small stretch the Balkans. They totally violated the Charter in regards Libya. I personally believe NATO has outlived or at least irrevocably tarnished its purpose and that the world should experience a fresh round of diplomacy and alliances.

  74. Enough with this subject.

    Rutherford is once again completely nonobjective and absolutely wrong headed with a heaping dose of pinko, SJ dumb ass about macro and micro economics and finance, and completely and spectacularly perceptive about a poorly aged Mick Jagger trying to play hip rock star. How a smart man can be as dense as uranium and as truly perceptive as Bill Clinton in one bod is beyond me.

    Give it up Mick, you are embarrassing yourself – you couldn’t sing live at 30; you most certainly can’t at 70. The absolutely apogee if unseemliness – like Joy Behar trying to make herself out as diva.

    Still think Mick is one of the true geniuses when it comes to clever lyrics and showmanship. Can you imagine any of these buffoons today penning lyric like those contained in Sympathy for the Devil, or You Can’t Always Get What You Want?

    These hacks today have a hard time composing repetitious stanzas.

  75. Well I’d like to say that I’ve been absent from the blog because I was in Chicago and just got out of jail after being caught up in the protests. As it turns out, I just wound up taking the weekend off from the blog for a change.

    I’ll answer a couple of questions tomorrow and perhaps pose a few more. Hope everyone had a good weekend in between comments fending off the demonic specter of socialism.

    To Tex and DR, they just don’t write songs like they used to. “Sympathy” has a Bob Dylan storytelling vibe about it. Anyone who has ever seen the Godard film “One Plus One” (titled “Sympathy for the Devil” in its American distribution) has seen the song evolve from a country/blues feel to the African influenced song we all know. Here’s a great edit job from “One Plus One” that you might enjoy.

  76. Probably one of the best examples of just how bad our school systems have gotten and how really uneducated our Liberal teachers are. This one takes the cake.

    http://www.salisburypost.com/News/051912-North-teacher-on-video-qcd

    Fathers response to the video and teacher.
    Timothy Rogers · Salisbury, North Carolina
    I’m the father of this student. My son and two other students in this class have been attacked daily from this teacher, and the rest of the class, for their conservative political views since the beginning of this semester. I told him to stay out of the political conversations, but she said that if he didn’t participate he would receive a bad grade. This teacher is politically ignorant! I teach my sons to respect other peoples political opinion, but she has no right shoving her opinions down his throat! Since this day I have had to remove him from North Rowan High School and am going to enroll him at RCCC to finish his education. I am outraged that she can conduct herself in such an unprofessional manner and receive no disciplinary action. THIS IS NOT OVER

    Video in question: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjpWaESn_9g&feature=youtube_gdata_player

  77. Good choice, “R”. I once heard Bob Dylan interviewed and he wasn’t near the peacenik hippie I thought he was going to be – at least not in his 50s.

  78. Nagic,

    I’ll bet that kind of crap is going on all over and we hear very little of it. I had a bully for an instructor (who strummed his guitar in class for us – yeah, that kind) who used to bully a few of us in a civics and economics class in about 9th grade.

    So he wrote one of his teacher union whiners into the Tulsa World one day, and I wrote a retort explaining I once was a student in the man’s class, and not only was he poorly informed, he was a bully to his students and I wouldn’t let either of my daughters enter his classroom for his “biased, liberal indoctrination.” 😆

    I got a long memory for punks and bullies. Bet it burned his ass to be called out like that. I certainly meant it to.

  79. I’ve listened to this video a few times now. It is just stunning a person like this could ever get into a teaching position. I commend the kids parents that their son was able to stand his ground and defend his position in the face of such overwhelming ignorance.

  80. Nagic, the Tigre family has been dealing with that since 2008. Even worse are the neighbors and school mates’ parents that send messages through my kids’ school friends about how messed up it is that their parents are conservative. It truly is a cult for idiots.

  81. It is just stunning a person like this could ever get into a teaching position
    Why do you think that? If you listen to the audio carefully you get one answer. If you think about the fact that US education hires teachers from the bottom third of their classes you get another.
    A quick look into the story seems to indicate that the parent is doing what is truly better for the kid. RCCC is an early college venture that currently tests and rates better than the HS he’s leaving.

  82. Just listened to the classroom recording. Ya gotta give the student credit for big balls. I would never argue with a teacher like that but then I always did have a “respect authority” problem.

    One observation, the teacher has no control over her classroom just based on all the side chatter. That alone means she needs to be suspended.

    On top of that, she’s ignorant as hell. I’d wait until my kid came home with first bad grade from that teacher and then I’d be up at the school in a heartbeat.

    Woman needs to be teaching math, not social studies.

  83. Tex, Dylan is one complicated man. Born a Minnesota Jew if I’m not mistaken and has had an interesting philosophical ride ever since. I believe he went through a born again phase about 30 years ago.

    The movie clip I posted from the Stones is legend among Stones fans. There are few things more exciting for the music nerd than seeing their favorite band in the studio constructing a song. That’s one reason why the Beatles “Let it Be” film holds up so well.

  84. I had a Latin teacher in high school who told us (I paraphrase):

    “The Latin word for black is niger. If blacks in the South knew their Latin they would understand why they were being called niggers and they wouldn’t have been offended.”

    I went home that day ashamed of myself that I hadn’t gotten up and walked out of the classroom. My Mom told me not to sweat it and that leaving the classroom would not have been wise.

    This teacher was beloved by the entire student population. She was old as dirt which may have accounted for some of the good will afforded her. I never forgot what she said and to this day I consider her a profoundly ignorant woman, even if she was well-meaning. Based on her age at the time, I assume she’s passed by now.

    Bottom line, teachers have to FOCUS in order to NOT allow their bias to effect their teaching. I’d love to hear DR’s take on this.

  85. I also think it’s worth noting that in college, all bets are off. I fully agree with anyone who says high school should not have an ideological slant. However, in college, professors come to the table with a viewpoint. Very often, you’re not learning a subject but learning a subject through the lens of a professor who makes his bones on doing research and writing texts. A good professor will encourage his students to challenge his viewpoint.

  86. I disagree R. When your grades and future ride on “agreeing” with a tenured prof, or even the perception of it, it’s not an environment that should be tolerated in college either, especially introductory undergraduate studies. Lokk what happened to you. 😆

  87. LOL Tigre when I think back on it, I took few courses that had room for political slant. The stuff I took consistently semester to semester was mathematics (my major) and Spanish (we didn’t have minors but it might as well have been my minor). The only course I recall that had a lot of room for “indoctrination” was Theory of Law freshman year. And that was pretty damn objective from what I can remember.

    On the one hand, I agree with you that courses in the first two years should be pretty middle of the road but on the other hand, college courses delve deeper and as a result they’re more likely to hit ideological fault lines.

    The other thing to remember is that in some cases you know what you’re getting into the minute you sign up for a course. So for example, The Concept of the Hero in Hellenic Civilization is not likely to have any political slant. However when you take Michael Sandel’s Justice course you better expect to have your political leanings challenged.

    By the way, for anyone with lots of time on their hands (that means you Tex),I’d strongly recommend working through the online Justice course. Really make you think about what you think. I watched the lectures on TV a few years ago and admittedly didn’t do the background work of reading the philosophers (Bentham and Kant). I’m sure doing the reading would make the videos even better.

  88. It’s been 35 years since I took Latin, and I am ashamed after two classes of that, I remember three words. 😆

  89. Don’t sweat it Tex. I can only recall about 10% of anything I’ve learned the entire run. And half of that 10% is useless sh*t like Kareem Abdul Jabar’s name before he converted. 😐

  90. Speaking of music trivia, my wife corrected me today after a quick Google search. I always thought Andy Gibb died from misadventure (either drug OD or suicide). Turns out he had a coronary infection. Both Robin and Maurice died of gut issues. (They were also fraternal twins … wonder if that influenced their similar fates.)

    And now there’s just Barry.

  91. Speaking of Lew Alcindor – I’ve actually got his 1969 Lew AlCindor Topps Basketball Card = mint condition that I found in a shoe box. I have no idea when I bought it as a kid, but I did.

    Check out some of the asking prices (the only keepsake I actually have actually worth something):

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/LEW-ALCINDOR-Kareem-Abdul-Jabbar-signed-1969-70-Topps-25-ROOKIE-CARD-PSA-/290715314910?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43affbaade

    Kareem for a short time was coaching a team in Enid, OK, and I thought about going over there and asking him to sign it. But I figured those guys get pretty burned out being bothered, so I never make the 200+ round trip drive.

  92. Rutherford I’ve been told that the Scorsese biography of George Harrison is outstanding. I tried watching the Dylan one a few years ago but I don’t think I’ve gotten all the way through it. I remember one scene that I found memorable – a female fan was half climbing in the partially open window of his limo begging him for an autograph while he sat on the other side out of arms reach. He kept trying to say to her, “why? why do you need my autograph? you don’t really need it. If you needed it I’d give it to you.” His attitude was really interesting like he was addressing her and the autograph thoughtfully while she was sort of mindlessly clawing at him.

    Rutherford I’ve heard conflicting reports but I think he’s still a Christian. I heard he got fed up with interviewers asking him to talk about his beliefs and they would then go and twist the article anyway so he quit answering. Like one article in which he clearly says, “yeah, I believe in the Bible, old and new testament” (I’m paraphrasing) was entitled something like “Dylan, the Recovering Christian.” I might have gotten that from the film.

  93. Weird. Tex I hadn’t read your comment about Kareem’s autograph until after I posted my comment about Dylan. 🙂

  94. I’ve watched most of Scorsese’s film on Harrison. It is good indeed.

    I heard a story … may have been about Ringo. Ringo told George while George was basically on his death bed, that his (Ringo’s) son was ill. George wanted to talk to him to lift his spirits, despite George’s own dire condition. He was probably the most unusual of the Beatles. Definitely the most spiritual.

    I don’t recall this being in the film but I do seem to remember a story about Lennon’s murder spooking the hell out of Harrison who then doubled his security.

  95. Hey, the article I referred to is actually a really good read! I’d never read it before.

    Interviewer: “Do you still hope for peace?”
    Dylan: “There is not going to be any peace.”

    Later on he says:

    And the battle of Armageddon definitely will be fought in the Middle East.

    This article was written in 1984.

    “Everything is computerized now, it’s all computers. I see that as the beginning of the end. You can see everything going global. There’s no nationality anymore, no I’m this or I’m that: “We’re all the same, all workin’ for one peaceful world, blah, blah, blah.”

    Somebody’s gonna have to come along and figure out what’s happening with the United States. Is this just an island that’s going to be blown out of the ocean, or does it really figure into things? I really don’t know. At this point right now, it seems that it figures into things. But later on, it will have to be a country that’s self-sufficient, that can make it by itself without that many imports.

    Right now, it seems like in the States, and most other countries, too, there’s a big push on to make a big global country — one big country — where you can get all the materials from one place and assemble them someplace else and sell ’em in another place, and the whole world is just all one, controlled by the same people, you know? And if it’s not there already, that’s the point it’s tryin’ to get to.”

    Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/bob-dylan-recovering-christian-rolling-stones-1984-interview-20110510#ixzz1vWxipdaU

  96. You know Rutherford, if you saw poolman in the quote I used or in the article itself, well OK. I didn’t. I saw a really interesting take on things from someone that I would have expected to hear something entirely different.

    There’s a difference between sailing and drifting.

  97. Now for some reason Noah, I was able to comment on that last FB entry you posted but not the first one. Odd. Facebook privacy/security is a total mystery to me. I still can’t figure out why Tex can see as much of my profile as he says he can. 😯

    Could it be that Tex and I actually have known each other???? Holy crap!

  98. And the boats in Disneyland don’t do either. 😉

    I already knew a lot about Dylan, having been a fan for almost 40 years. I even worked his show when he came through Lubbock years ago.

  99. Muffy I was referring to Dylan’s one-world-government theory which aligns with Poolman if I’m not mistaken.

    Hey you never know … if things had zigged instead of zagged, Old Poolman might have wound up a famous folk singer and Bob Dylan could be constructing pools in Arizona. 😉

  100. “There’s a difference between sailing and drifting.”

    Love it. That goes in Tigre’s quiver. 😉

  101. Rutherford, I’ll let Dylan stick with music and I’ll stick with water vessels. We each know where our specific talents lie. Why go against that flow?

  102. When I first started teaching I tried to play it completely streight. I soon realized that no matter what, that’s impossible. So, now I try to tell the class when I’m being bias. What I look for is kids who are parroting political idealogy that they don’t fully understand. I don’t challange them on it outright I just throw a little Socratic method at them umtil it becomes apparent maybe they haven’t thought it all through yet.

    The other day a kid was going off on the saftey net and affirmative action. Now, the funny thing is the kid gets numerous modifications and accommodations due to a learning disability. I print the notes out for him, he doesn’t have to turn in the homework on time etc. I didn’t want to embaress him in front of the class so I waited umtil he lately turned his work in and said he gets full credit thanks to a saftey net. He cracked up about it and got my point. The point is I hate affirmative action and agreed with the kid’s orginal rant but detected an immature arrival at that point so I subtly showed it to him.

  103. “I even worked his show when he came through Lubbock years ago.”

    By God, you’re right, Rutherford. They are practically interchangeable.

  104. Idiot wind blowing every time your move your mouth
    Blowing down the backroads heading south
    Idiot wind blowing every time you move your teeth
    You’re an idiot babe
    It’s a wonder that you still know how to breathe

  105. Im sitting in ER with a broken nose and massive gash from a collision at first base. My wife is due for the c section on Wed. Baby pics are going to be great.

  106. Im sitting in ER with a broken nose and massive gash from a collision at first base. My wife is due for the c section on Wed. Baby pics are going to be great.

    Damn, Hoss. I’m sorry, but I’m thinking about you looking like Chuck Wepner holding your newborn. 😀

    Who the heck did you run into? Shaquille O’Neal?

  107. Ha ha. Wasn’t Shaq. An old grizzled retired Detroit cop probably pfessors age. Elbow to my nose. It was the Catholic Leage. For some reason the guys son, who was also on the team (a tattooed undercover cop himself), went ape shit. Of course my Dad and brothers went equally ape shit and the benches cleared. The opposing parish felt dumb after they realized it was the 250 pound goon who was injured and not the old man half my size. Apparently the only two dudes who realized there was no foul play was me and the guy I collided with. I must have lost a pint of blood. Some lady worked on me like I was a boxer and we won the game by one run. It was awesome. I ended up with a fractured nose and three stitches. Now I have to deal with black eye prejudice. I hate that. I heard both teams drank a bunch of beers together after the game. I went streight to the ER.

  108. Man, you Catholics are all about the blood. 😀

    Rabbit, that’s a crazy way to start your week! Looking for exciting chapters in your memoirs while driving your wife nuts? I hope that socialized medicine was up to par for you. I guess you’ll have something for show-and-tell.

    I guess Chicago is the happening place. Lee Camp’s latest is from the protests.

  109. Rabbit sorry for your trouble but I have to admit the first thing I thought of was what a bad idea it is to play softball with Trayvon Martin’s ghost. 🙂

  110. My favorite Dylan.

    She lit a burner on the stove and offered me a pipe
    “I thought you’d never say hello,” she said
    “You look like the silent type.”
    Then she opened up a book of poems
    And handed it to me
    Written by an Italian poet
    From the thirteenth century.
    And every one of them words rang true
    And glowed like burnin’ coal
    Pourin’ off of every page
    Like it was written in my soul from me to you,
    Tangled up in blue.

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