Romney’s Latino Problem

The liberal press is making much hay over Mitt Romney’s inevitable loss in November if he does not secure the Latino vote. The meme goes that Mitt is alienating Latinos based on his stance on immigration.

Wrong. Romney is alienating Latinos based on his stance on illegal immigration. The more I think about this, the less sense it makes. Every country has a right, no, an obligation to secure its borders. Every country has a right to set in place procedures that govern who comes and goes in that country. Illegal immigration has been a thorny issue in the United States because we can’t figure out first, how to protect our borders and second, what to do with those folks who have already entered illegally. The problem is how to handle this in a manner that tips the hat to human dignity. The problem is NOT the virtue of the illegal immigrant. The illegal immigrant has committed a crime by entering the country illegally. Dealing with the criminality with some semblance of decency is our challenge but ignoring it is not an option.

Do Latinos want the situation ignored? Does dealing with a Latino who entered our country illegally somehow reflect on law-abiding Latinos? I think not. Law abiding Latinos should support efforts to humanely deal with folks who are here illegally. Some of our attempts to deal with the problem, such as the Arizona law now under review with the Supreme Court, are missteps in my opinion but that doesn’t mean we should do nothing. In fact, I find Mr. Romney’s notion of “self deportation” one of the best ideas going. If we make conditions intolerable for illegal immigrants (i.e. deny employment for starters) then they will want to go home.

The bottom line is Mitt Romney does not have a problem with Latinos. Latinos have a problem with Latinos and with facing up to their responsibility to support an effective immigration policy in the United States.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

WordPress.com Political Blogger Alliance

533 thoughts on “Romney’s Latino Problem

  1. I agree with most of what you wrote. Obama’s economy may be doing Romney a favor. Mexico has a growing middle class and more opportunities. Illegals were leaving Sacrimento last winter because the unemployment rate was higher there than in Mexico.

    My Korean relatives are angry because they played by the rules to become citizens.

    I don’t know if there is a connection, but a blogger wrote that the rate of illegal immigration has fallen slightly since Bush’s immigrant anmensty bill was defeated.

    We naturally assume illegals are Latinos. Several years ago the population of illegal Irish was high in parts of New England.

  2. That’s interesting James. I would never have thought of illegal immigrants from Ireland. Is this a matter of their outstaying their visas? I would have to guess it much harder to enter illegally over our water borders than over our land borders.

  3. The problem I have with people wanting the “Latino” vote, is there really isn’t a “Latino” vote, despite what the media claims. Latinos are as diverse as any other “group” in terms of ideology. They make up a huge voting bloc, but it isn’t cohesive in any sense.

    Some of those that are toughest on illegal immigrants are the “legal” Latinos. Illegals can’t vote (legitimately), and the legals do not want to be lumped in the same category, even if they might be related.

    One big issue that often gets ignored are the rights of indigenous peoples, many considered Latino, that don’t recognize imposed “national” borders. Their culture is much older than ours.

    Another big issue are the employers that provide jobs to illegals. If there are no jobs, there is no reason to come here. That is where policing needs to take place, if you want to curtail the illegal immigration “problem”. Often that is where the greatest corruption takes place, yet the “illegal” is generally the focus of enforcement.

    Corruption IS the biggest problem we have in all levels of government and its enforcement agencies. Until we fix “the system”, we will continue to just band aid the gaping wounds.

  4. Rutherford,

    I agree with you that dealing with the Latinos here illegally is a tricky one. I don’t, however, believe we can’t “figure” out how to secure the border. There are forces on both the left and the right who are perfectly OK with the inhumane negligence that accompanies our joke of a border .

    The left is the worst when it comes to the status quo of the coyote. An inhumane and deceitful way to harvest votes.

    Full amnesty for all that are here. Then, approach our border with the rigor of the 1960’s era space program.

    I’m thinking presidential candidate Rabbit wouldn’t get much love from either parties with that whopper.

  5. Wow, Rutherford. A rare moment of complete lucidity. I even agree with Poolman there is not a Latino “voting bloc” like Black America, though about 2/3 vote Dimocratic.

    I did read I believe yesterday, for the first time in decades, America is experiencing more illegals going back home than sneaking in. Chalk that up to what you will: poor economy, stricter laws, more patrol, bad Mexican food, remember the Alamo.

    I actually hold a great degree of respect to the work ethic of many of these illegals, and am more sympathetic apparently than most pols on my side – because I realize I’d be swimming that river to if I were in that same position.

  6. Good link, Alfie. But I don’t see it advantageous to Mitt. Romney doesn’t have any bloc sewn up, except the GOP party shills. He is trailing Obama in women voters, too. That is a bigger bloc than the strictly Latino voters. Women mostly vote democratic, especially single women at the rate of about 75 percent.

    If it is Romney vs Obama in November, we’ll get another Obama term. Unless something drastic happens between now and then to change the landscape.

    The more exposure Romney gets, the worse he fares. Since the economy is slowly improving, it helps Obama. Undecideds will go for the lesser of two evils, which, at this point, appears to be Obama.

    “Better the devil you know…

    I don’t know if Israel, under its current leadership, will allow that. If it looks like Obama is a shoe-in, expect something drastic. The normal “drastic” always involves carnage. I’m not the only one making that prediction. There is struggle for power within our institutions. Nothing is set in stone.

  7. I too have sympathy and respect for the Mexican work ethic. I like to think I’d be doing the same damn thing if I was in their shoes. I cringe when I hear right wing talk about rounding them up and throwing them out. Its a pipe dream that will never happen, for starters.

    A good does of Mexican traditionalism would be good for the ever softening underbelly of this nation. Its just too bad liberalism is constantly trying everything they can to emasculate and hook Hispanic America to government dependency.

  8. Dose….

    Rutherford, I installed the iPhone keyboard on my Galaxy. Have you noticed my typing has improved?

    I’m still not a fan of the touch screen. However, after 3 different keyboards, I finally found something I can at least cope with.

  9. Notice of all the candidates, only Ron Paul is willing to stand up to this all powerful private corporation. Why do we, as Americans, tolerate enslavement to these shysters? How do we expect regular citizens of this nation to operate on a moral plane? I cannot fathom why we have continued this practice as long as we have. THIS is the most anti-American practice ever. One we were warned of by our founders. Yet…

    Why don’t we get rid of this malignancy? Maybe too many benefit from it? That’s all I can come up with.

    Today, this accounting operation (really a huge Ponzi scheme) can funnel no interest dollars (created out of nothing) to select dealer banks who then earn their income from the interest spread. Wouldn’t you and I like part of this scheme for our investments and savings? We could borrow unlimited dollars (no interest or near zero interest) and then reinvest these dollars in low risk government bonds and earn the spread with no risk to us! What does this reveal to the American people and to those of us who desire knowledge about MONEY? Is the Fed a Moral Hazard?

    http://kingdomecon.wordpress.com/2012/04/17/why-the-fed-our-central-bank-operates-a-financial-ponzi-scheme/

  10. From what I understand the vast majority of Hispanics vote Dem. Cubans are a big exception supposedly because the conservative paranoia about communism resonates with them.

    As for Hispanic voting bloc vs black voting bloc, I think conservative Hispanics are more willing to speak out than conservative blacks. The conservative blacks are out there (Sowell, Steele, West (gasp), McWhorter to some degree).

  11. To echo Tex and Rabbit’s sentiments, I’ve never gotten angry at the illegal immigrant. I’ve gotten angry at the employers who exploit them. I’m also disgusted, as I wrote in a prior thread, with Americans too damn lazy or snobbish to claim these jobs for their own.

  12. Damn … didn’t realize the embed wouldn’t work on the previous comment. I hate it when YouTube does that.

    By the way, Gorilla sent me a snarky Tweet that made it clear he hadn’t bothered to read my article before tweeting. I LOVE it when that happens. 🙂

  13. Watching that Peter Murphy reminded me the grip David Bowie had on pop culture for a while. What a weird dude that everyone tried to emulate. I’m might get slammed by music geeks for this, but am I the only one who thinks Bowie was over rated? I never could get into most of his albums that critics fawn over.

  14. Here is one thing I recently heard about Mexican culture that is disturbing. I heard molestation by family members in rampant. Usually by uncles. Its almost just matter of factly accepted. Uncle Jose comes over for a barbecue and its just known that you calmly hide the kids. Uncle Jose is a molester but he is still welcome over. Don’t know how true this is. A Mexican told me about it.

  15. That was a bit Bowie-ish. I was/am a big Bowie fan. He’s a genius, but maybe you had to live through it.

    It was new then. Ziggy Stardust, Iggy Pop.

    Peter Murphy also reminded me a bit of Edgar Winter.

    Now, when I was 12… back in the day…

    No Frills Rock and Roll…

  16. I need to get to bed but I can’t sleep. We lost a close softball game and my competetive juices are still making my mind run like crazy. I’ve always been this way. Can’t sleep after sports, particularly late games.

  17. Latino culture accepts men having mistresses. I don’t know about the child molestation angle, but the mistress part is almost a requirement.

  18. Poolman, you have one rare moment of lucidity, then blow it with your stupid Romney Jew rants. Go back to finding insect flying drones and shut up. You embarrass yourself in addition to being a pathological liar.

    And if you’re so sure Obama a shoo in, why don’t you join Thor and bet me on the election results this November?

    Go study Haym Solomon and maybe you’ll learn something about how blessed you are by those despicable Jews.

    Moron.

  19. Rabbit,

    I’ve got a worse habit than you. I fell asleep around 8:00PM in the recliner, wake up with my wife’s phone call at 9:50 PM, then can’t go back to sleep. I can actually operate on two hours a night for days. Obviously, something is pretty wacked in the metabolism, because I know damn well that can’t be healthy.

    I fully expect to burn out at an early age. 😀 Really. Serves me right.

    Watched Winter’s Bone on Netflix. What a downer movie – though I can see why this Jennifer Lawrence is a rising star. Even with the depressing material, I give it 3 1/2 stars. Believe it was nominated for four Academy Awards.

  20. you have one rare moment of lucidity, then blow it with your stupid Romney Jew rants.

    Lucid’s in the sky with diamonds.

    Speaking of, did you know now they cannot distinguish between new and mined diamonds? Hope you haven’t invested much in those rocks. Many gave their life.

    You ought to take Brother Nathaniel’s rants (I left in the coliseum) to heart. He ought to know his heritage.

    Or we could just peruse the NT. Maybe that will add lucidity. 😀

  21. OT, but cool. Now the Islamists want you to be able to have intercourse with your dead wife:

    http://times247.com/articles/brotherhood-dominated-parliament-crafts-farewell-intercourse-law

    Great place, that. The women are even screwed in death.

    Now that I think of it, maybe I should move there. It will bring back memories of my first marriage…

    ***************

    poolman – re: diamonds. Saw a great article in Wired magazine several years back. The manmade diamonds are so good that the only way to tell them from the “real” thing is the lack of flaws, although I would think you could put that in, too. The world’s most evil Mafia is DeBeers; they are freaking out about the whole thing. They have started laser-etching “DeBeers” on their mined diamonds to assure authenticity.

  22. Rutherford, NBC or one of the networks ran a story about the Illegal Irish maybe ten years ago. The Irish economy was in the doldrums and however the Irish got here, they stayed.

    The news story described the then new booming economy in Ireland and the movement of Irish back home. New Englanders interviewd mourned the dimunition of Irish culture, including pubs.

    Eastern Europeans have moved west for the same reason Latinos have come to the United States. They want to improve their lives. British on a message board complained about the people who work so hard for so little they crowd natives from jobs. One man called Ukrainians “blond Mexicans.”

    One of the craziest chapters of our immigrant history was when a group of people tried to get Fins deported under the Asian Exclusion Act. The Swedes and others had decided the science was settled. Fins were white Asians and mongrels.

    The German population was so dense they had their own German-language newspapers and beer halls. WW1 led Americans to wreck their culture here. Our high school principal told us how bad it was for her family.

  23. I liked some of Bowie’s music, but I think Marc Bolan started the glitter craze. He was a bright but odd little man who knew God had ordained him to be a rock star. The problem was he didn’t have much talent. People liked him and occasionally gave him chances on television or with advice, but no one thought he would amount to anything.

    His band finally developed a cult following and they really took off when they lowered the price of their tickets. One night, on a whim Bolan wore some makeup and glitter. Fans began to wear makeup at the shows.

    Marc was fascinated by dinosaurs and alien space visitors. Thus, he named the group T Rex. The band was so successful Bolan and his wife moved to the US to escape high British taxes. He died in a car wreck before he was 30.

  24. Sex with your dead wife, hey? Well, if memory serves, rigor sits in at about 8-12 hours. Guess she will still be pliable. 😯

    Ever read one of those articles you wanted to laugh out loud at its absurdity and grotesqueness, but the material so macabre, you simply sat there in stone silence trying to gather your thoughts while you blink your eyes at 6000 RPM.

    That’s what article did to me. I’m telling you true – barnyard animals are more civilized.

  25. The Road We Really Traveled

    The additional commentary is outstanding. 😆 And only $4,000,000,000,000 a ticket.

    Watched it on my Big Screen. Just beautiful.

  26. “I would never have thought of illegal immigrants from Ireland.”

    Wow. You didn’t get outside of Cambridge much then. I knew many, many illegal Irish growing up in Boston. I always thought construction would come to a grinding halt without them.

  27. Regarding Whittle and Klavin, nothing more fun than watching a couple of wise acres who never got past high school level sarcasm. A couple of cynical assh*les. I hope Romney gets elected, the economy tanks again and those two are the first to lose their jobs. 👿

  28. “That’s what article did to me. I’m telling you true – barnyard animals are more civilized.”

    Right on, brother. My daughter is an archaelogist who specialized in Middle Eastern culture and had her heart set on doing archaelogy in the middle east, Egypt in particular. She went to Alexandria, the most Christian city in Egypt, lived in a Christian convent with nuns, dressed modestly and tried to do archaelogy there. After three months of being harassed by these smelly camel-jockeys, nearly raped several times and laughed at by the authorities when she complained, she abandoned her life’s ambition and transferred her study to ancient Greece.

    You’d have to know this girl. Hurricane Hatty would be a good name for her; she lets NOTHING stand in her way, but she left Egypt with the opinion that the whole place should be nuclear bombed. That’s a quote.

    No, I would like to see the world, but I have NO interest in any Arab country – or Iran, for that matter. I’m with my daughter: let God sort them out.

  29. Tex, that video rocks. It’ll be circulated widely — to my naive liberal friends (not that they’d watch it).

  30. “Regarding Whittle and Klavin, nothing more fun than watching a couple of wise acres who never got past high school level sarcasm. A couple of cynical assh*les. I hope Romney gets elected, the economy tanks again and those two are the first to lose their jobs.”

    Bullseye!

    That must have stung.

    So, the hyper-dramatic, sycophantic praise delivered by Hanks sounds better? Who’d have guessed?

  31. Rutherford, I know how you enjoy Andrew and Bill so. I’m thinking of patterning my weekend posts like you once did when filled with hope and change, and a beloved Honest Obe weekly fireside chat. Right up to the general election.

    The weekly PJMedia round table discussion for old times sake. 😉

    Yes We Can!

  32. And now, the superb piece of campaign work that ass-clowns Whittle and Klavin took pot shots at. This video could not have done a better job of framing the POTUS first term.

  33. Wow. You didn’t get outside of Cambridge much then. I knew many, many illegal Irish growing up in Boston.

    No, actually I didn’t venture outside Cambridge much but I was aware of a large Irish population in Boston. I just didn’t think any of them were illegal.

  34. “No, actually I didn’t venture outside Cambridge much but I was aware of a large Irish population in Boston. I just didn’t think any of them were illegal.”

    I am little surprised by that. The majority I met worked their way down from Canada. All of them in construction (for obvious reasons).

  35. Yes, Peter Murphy reminds me of a cross between Bowie and Iggy. Rabbit, as for Bowie, I was never a Bowie album guy. I liked the tunes that made the radio. After all of his output, his masterpiece I think still remains Space Oddity.

    (Apologies for the Challenger explosion at the end … I didn’t see that coming.)

  36. Tigre,

    You mean you weren’t sold by that horrid Tom Hank piece? Tom fell hard after Saving Private Ryan. I can’t even remember the last good film he made. A shame, because he was so good in the ’90s. Apollo 13 is still one of my all time favorite ten.

    You know what is most offensive to me? That these sycophantic Hollywood nitwits, perhaps some of the dumbest people on earth outside of playing a role, which they’ve demonstrated time and again, would think the American public that gullible to be so duped. Of course, the targeted audience is – those that find insect drones in their backyard. They’re the ones that peed in their pants as this fraud who had the audacity to stand in front of Greek Columns and spoon feed lies of promises this charlatan couldn’t possibly keep – all Obama lacked was Apollo’s toga and laurel wreath. And these weak knees actually ate that crap up, as the rest of us stood in horror witnessing the abomination of desolation, knowing fully well the hurricane of destruction coming.

    But I would have thought even Rutherford was put his personal bias aside and retched over that melodramatic shinola.

    This Hollywood superficial character aspect is so lame, so transparent, so predictable, I’m actually offended not by its mendacity and shilling, but the sappy presentation framed as American patriotism. Most of these people wouldn’t survive a week if the productive public suddenly disappeared. These Obama lackeys are not clueless, they’re helpless.

    Not even Bill Clinton was this wooed by the amoral depraved. I suppose in same twisted way, it’s actually frightening to believe 50% of the American public can’t wipe their ass without governmental assistance and care.

  37. Winter’s Bone was a good flick but Tex is right …very dark.

    You ought to take Brother Nathaniel’s rants (I left in the coliseum) to heart. He ought to know his heritage.

    The problem with Brother Nathaniel is that he comes across like any other disgruntled ex-member of a cult. In this case, the cult is Judaism. But as I stated in the Coliseum, his points about Jews giving it a rest about the Holocaust sounds vaguely like the denizens here who say blacks should give slavery a rest.

    Methinks deep down old Nathaniel is still mourning the loss of his foreskin. 😐

  38. Pretty funny stuff, Brother “R”. I wanted to play the video for you of Apollo, but it had 30 second advertisement on You Tube and afer 2:20, didn’t end with the “I would have cherished you…”. 😡

  39. How on God’s green earth anyone, and I mean ANYONE (that even includes R) can sit through that Hanks shit is beyond me. The music alone makes me want to puke.

    Had a piece been done like that on someone I admired I would run away questioning what was really going on. What is the matter with you libs and the twisted hero worship? You seem to need it.

    Hail Caesar!!!! 🙄

  40. Obama should take the cue and have tried this with the Volt instead of the pussy ads. Greatest Craigslist ad ever:

  41. Okay prosecutor, let’s take this one step at a time…

    Can you admit this technology exists in the real world?

  42. How could I admit that? I didn’t create that technology and have never seen it.

    But I’ll play along and just say “yes” to see what lies ahead Clarence Darrow.

  43. So, for you to admit it exists, you must create or see it?

    How do you know I exist?

    But I’ll play along and “believe” we are having a real conversation.

    Drone technology is being used domestically. Here’s proof:

    http://www.npr.org/2012/04/17/150817060/drones-move-from-war-zones-to-the-home-front

    OWS has video of surveillance drones spying on them. We have plenty of military contractors in Arizona. It is one of our largest industries.

    We also have a Sheriff’s department that invests in spy equipment and aids the military (and contractors) in testing new technology in Maricopa County, where I live.

    Does that mean I know they are the ones spying on locals? No. But it does offer one possibility.

  44. The requirements for legal immigration do not favor those born south of the border. To put it rather mildly.

  45. “Poolman, please tell me you were joking about the insect drones.” -Tigre

    Oh, this is going to be good.

  46. Poolman, I don’t want to read that whole NPR piece.

    All I see is discussion of “aircraft” referenced in the discussion of the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012.

    Point me to a point.

  47. “Does that mean I know they are the ones spying on locals? No. But it does offer one possibility.”

    There better be more counselor.

  48. I don’t know God exists.

    But you pray anyway? Hmmmmm. I see someone IS having reality issues.

    Point me to a point.

    Can you admit the possibility of insect drones, or God for that matter?

  49. And I gave you the evidence. I also don’t really care WHAT you believe or admit to. It isn’t my burden to educate you.

  50. “And I gave you the evidence. I also don’t really care WHAT you believe or admit to. It isn’t my burden to educate you.”

    You took on that burden, “one step at a time.”

    I thought you said you saw one of these spying on you or your wife. Is that in evidence?

    Now you’ve been indicted for being bat-shit crazy.

    Have you quit or shall we submit this to the jury?

  51. “The NPR piece shows that this spy technology IS BEING USED DOMESTICALLY. Circular argument closed.”

    Where does it mention “this” spy technology. That’s a long damn piece.

  52. Okay. I did a term search for “insect” and it wasn’t shown in the NPR piece.

    I also tried “Poolman” and “bat-shit crazy.” Nothing on the page. But Google brought me right back here.

  53. I think of the robots we built in engineering school twelve years ago – as students – and then I think of the technology available to the military and I am very hesitant to criticise the poolman about his experience. Math constraining “swarming” behavior is developing at a very good clip; we see robot swarms on YouTube all the time now. Solving the energy problem seems to be quite difficult, though…hmmm.

    Having said all that, though, I definitely question the wisdom of his revealing his experience in THIS swarm of cutthroats, myself included. LOL

  54. I thought you said you saw one of these spying on you or your wife. Is that in evidence?

    I said one of these ran into my wife and was in my backyard. I can only suppose what it was being used for. For all I know, some millionaire’s kid had a new birthday present he was playing with.

  55. I don’t remember seeing pool mans insect description but micro uav’s are a growing issue. pool man being a pool man is in fact a prime candidate for observation as some municipalities are looking into a plethora of ways to find pools and fence and lot improvements that occur without ponying up the tax $$$$.
    I dare imagine though some techie freak was most likely storming pools hood with the latest from Radio Shack though.

  56. Alfie, we have the local Sheriff looking into backyards for green pools. They fine homeowners huge amounts. Big mosquito problem and west nile virus fears. It was a big issue several years ago and a major controversy.

    Tigre just likes to pull people’s chain. The evidence is in B&W.

  57. Although much of the hispanic polling looks bleak for the GOP my offering of the earlier link was meant in much broader terms.
    The hispanic population is an exciting entity and has great potential for all political parties in the USA,they are by no means tied to the left as blacks are.
    The evolution of the hispanic population is a dynamic thing,not a simple static kind of thing.
    Whether Romney can curry any favor amongst the group outside of the FL Cuban pop is to be seen. I don’t think the “bloc” buries Romney though by any means. Where the hispanics go blue,well those areas are blue no matter what.

  58. “Tigre just likes to pull people’s chain. The evidence is in B&W.”

    Didn’t read your Wired article all the way through, did you?

  59. CAse in point for national opinion….
    What looks better in all seriousness? Sotomayor singing w the Supremes of Rubio being a potential VP choice?
    For me it would be Rubio.

  60. “poolman –

    Good Wired article. Beamed microwaves for power. Never considered it.

    I’m in.”

    That Poolman was being spyed on for green pool violations or the millionaire kid spent his candy and video game money on the upgrade for microwave power?

  61. What happened to the insect drone, Poolman? Did you pick it up and observe it? Or did it talk to you?

    Were there like chips and electric wires dangling from the antennae? Kaleidoscope cameras for eye balls? Millions of them? Did it like little paper clips for legs?

    Exactly what did the wings look like? Delta wing or bi wing? Was it a dragonfly? Maybe a hummingbird?

    What kind of peyote do they sell on the corner, Kimosabe?

    P.S. – Tigre, that Craigslist ad was hilarious! 😆 I really did laugh out loud.

  62. Re: Refridgerator Heaven

    Who ARE these people?

    From the link:

    The controversial new law is part of a raft of measures being introduced by the Islamist-dominated parliament. It will also see the minimum age of marriage lowered to 14 and the ridding of women’s rights of getting education and employment. …

    Is this for real?

  63. I’m in.”
    That Poolman was being spyed on for green pool violations or the millionaire kid spent his candy and video game money on the upgrade for microwave power?

    That the last insurmountable barrier to micro-robots can be breached with microwave power. That is always the problem – no way to carry enough battery capacity for extended flight. Microwaves solve that.

    The govt could do it I think; it would be pretty tough for anybody else. They are pretty sneaky sonsofbitches – and of course have an unlimited budget.

    I’m still working on my ultimate anti-islamist weapon: a beard-seeking missile with odor detection. The more the beard stinks the more it homes in.

  64. I get a little sick of the Irish wannabees in America. To my horror, a trip to Ireland revealed that half the Emerald Island is a fake Irish bar built for the romantic stereotypes of said American wannabes.

    I know Boston is a total different ball of wax.

    When I first started going to college after the Navy I considered myself an expert on Celtic history. I was in an Irish bar in Detroit and drunkenly started yelling Jerry Adam’s Sinn Fein bullshit just to be an asshole. The Irish band went silent and the lead Singer demanded the bouncers throw me out. I fought half that bar on my way out. The bouncers opened the doors with my head. Ahhh…the good ok days. Picking fights with the Irish. If I was in Boston instead of Detroit, I would have been dead.

  65. I suppose the collateral damage of an obliterated ZZ Top would be an acceptable loss with Pfessor’s new super weapon.

  66. “I suppose the collateral damage of an obliterated ZZ Top would be an acceptable loss with Pfessor’s new super weapon.”

    I was going to set the stink meter above that level to specifically spare their lives.

  67. Alfie at the risk of putting words in your mouth, I actually think Romney’s Hispanic problem is overblown also. I’d be interested to see just how much of the Hispanic population turns out to vote normally anyway. If not a single one votes for him, will it make that big a difference, based on participation rates?

    Now, women? That might be a bigger problem.

  68. “I suppose Dawkins fan like you would relish in being known as the Santa slayer.”

    Damn. That cookie smell. I KNEW I forgot something.

  69. What looks better in all seriousness? Sotomayor singing w the Supremes of Rubio being a potential VP choice?
    For me it would be Rubio.

    I don’t think you gave this much thought. Sotomayor has been a judge since 1992. Rubio is a junior Senator, no more experienced than 2008 era Barack Obama. In fact, take Obama, make him an Hispanic conservative, and you’ve got Rubio.

  70. Tigre, the one source that informs EVERYTHING I say or do 24/7 tells me that team Obama is actually scared Jeb might get the nod. Jeb steadfastly denies wanting the job for family reasons. But as Joe Scarborough put it, when he gets the call that says “Jeb the future of the Senate, the House and the Supreme Court are at stake” he might change his mind. Of course he gives Romney some Florida help, some Hispanic help and IMHO he’s viewed by sane objective people as the Bush that SHOULD have been POTUS.

    Scarborough also suggested that if Romney pulled that trigger, then Daddy Bush ’41 might add some pressure to his son to say yes.

  71. Regarding 92, here’s the bro and sister cashing in on their fame:

    My question is … what family member records their kids that f*cked up and then thinks it’s a good idea to upload it to YouTube?

  72. The next three vids are dedicated to Muffy and the Islamists. (Dag, that sounds like a rock group — Muffy and the Islamists — at number 5 on the charts with a bullet!)

  73. I suppose the collateral damage of an obliterated ZZ Top would be an acceptable loss with Pfessor’s new super weapon.

    Damn you Rabbit, I was investing serious brain power to come up with a line like that and you beat me to it.

    Bravo! 😆 😆 😆

  74. Damn, reading this thread has been a lot of fun today between Poolman’s insect spies and PF’s beard seeking drones and Islamist necrophilia.

    But amidst all the jocularity, Muffy posed an interesting point. Is part of our illegal immigrant problem a near impossible immigration process? Is that part of what Obama/Romney should be addressing in 2013?

  75. “Tigre, the one source that informs EVERYTHING I say or do 24/7 tells me. . . ”

    You are getting close to completely disarming me. 😆

  76. And now we’re finding out Obama didn’t even run the OBL mission after all. An admiral did. 😆

    Excellent point, Tigre: If Obama doesn’t drop the ball, it’s a touchdown. Never mind he’s running toward the the wrong endzone even when he manages to catch it.

  77. Now for some context on that Breitbart vid. It’s by EAGNews.org. It’s leader “currently appears in a weekly “Fox & Friends” segment called “The Trouble with Schools” on the Fox News Channel.” and is “a contributor to Townhall.com and BigGovernment.com.” In other words Kyle Olsen is an anti-union Conservative shill.

    Now, I must admit if I am to take the video at face value (something which is hard to do considering the source), I would be very uncomfortable with my kid receiving such lectures from teachers at school. At what point is it appropriate for schools to invest a sense of civic responsibility in its students and how is this done without some bias?

    Tough questions.

  78. Tigre, sadly you often devolve into roll of ass-hat. The FACT is that Osama’s whereabouts was not a 100% slam dunk. The FACT is that the team could have suffered loss of life. The FACT is that Obama had the final call and took a gamble that could have essentially ruined his presidency. The FACT is that Bush 43 was a wimp ass motherf*cker who let the murderer of 3000 of our citizens go unpursued and unpunished claiming he (Osama) was no longer really a factor. In the meantime he drowned us in debt fighting a war with a country that did not attack us.

    Obama killed the man your pussy idol of a President couldn’t kill. And say what you like about who GM owes money to, the bottom line is that there isn’t a much more potent bumper sticker this year than:

    Osama is dead and GM is alive.

    Suck on that counselor.

  79. And now we’re finding out Obama didn’t even run the OBL mission after all. An admiral did.

    You’re talking bullsh*t semantics. Obama made the final call.

    Suck on that!

  80. You assh*les are so full of Obama-hate that you want to take his one irrefutable accomplishment away from him. The one accomplishment that you blood-lust mofo’s would applaud coming from ANY other man. Well I’m not going to let you do it.

    A sizable number of America-haters are worm food right now thanks to Obama’s aggressive policies.

    I am sooooo conflicted. I don’t know what I want more — to see Obama win another term so I can rub it in your faces or see Romney win and watch you make excuses for his incompetence for the next four years. 👿

  81. Here Rutherford. Whose the man again?

    Noodle man, noodle arm. I thought you wienies said Bush was a killer and war criminal? 😀

    P.S. – GM = Volt and still owes us $30 Billion; nice try.

  82. One interesting thing in that infographic is that folks you would consider competitors really aren’t. Whether you buy Lipton tea or Red Rose (my personal fav), Unilever hears that cash register go ka-ching.

  83. From a populist stand point, I think another Bush would be a disaster for the campaign, even a qualified smart one. Can’t we pretend we’re not a aristocracy for an election by voting for Romney and…uh. nevermind.

    You guys are nuts. Rubio or bust!

  84. Poor Kim Strassel, clearly a woman in need of some good lovin’.

    It’s ok to suggest that Obama pals around with terrorists but not ok to follow the money trail on whence Mitt’s support comes.

    Kim, dear, you’re the reason I dislike most conservative women. 😐

  85. I haven’t the foggiest idea who Romney should choose as Veep. I personally love fireworks so a Chris Christie would thrill me to no end. But I’ve heard both lib and conservative pundits say that Mitt is better off with someone who makes him look exciting (a near impossible task). That’s why there’s a lot of talk about Rob Portman and Tim Pawlenty.

    Rabbit, as I said before, Rubio is Obama in white-face with a taco (or whatever Cuban delicacy one can think of … I guess tacos are Mexican). The (wo)man Mitt chooses must be able to be President. No one wants another Sarah Palin (or in your case, another Barack Obama). 😉

  86. In no particular order:
    In the metro Boston area there are illegals from Ireland,Russia and China. We were also pretty famous for a while due to one from Kenya. It probably seems logical but I will say it just for kicks. Boston and the environs are very much self segregated and folks of the illegal variety usually have no prob finding folks that embrace them. Then they just blend in baby.

    @R re Rubio/Sotomayor. I was posing a lame query as a white guy to a bunch of other non latino types which person represented a better role model or source of pride. I’m wicked biased since I find Soto so stupid and pretty much textbook token/ AA poster child .

    Romney and hispanics really no problem,the latinos don’t impact the electoral college— yet.

    Rutherford get some decaf tea and calm the fuck down regards Obama & Osama and don’t go down the UAW yellow brick road,I’m begging you.

    Saw a run down of potential Veep choices. Saw a choice I never thought of. Rubio was discounted due to Obama-ness. Ryan was dropped due to his importance to the GOP. This is true especially if Romney loses. Ryan needs to be in the stable for sure. The surprise was Gen David Petreaus. Name recognition,likability and insane FP exposure. The gist of the article trashed the idea that VP choice is actually useful and offered only LBJ as a choice that did a winner any good.

  87. backing up my #133
    I did a quick walkie walk on various nations for what I’ll call a simple entry level immigrant.
    US= $580 Canada is a min of $400CDN with a buffet menu of additional charges and the UK comes in with £ 800 to £900

  88. Rutherford, my memory may be fading, but didn’t Obama run for president while Rubio speculatively would be running for vice president?

  89. Rutherford, I think we got to give Obama credit for Osama. I even believe he made the right call on how he handled his death.

    Its just too bad your boy Obama hurt my son dearly with his epic orgy of pointless spending, unconstitutional laws, corrupt and politically connected green energy scams, disgusting alliances with Wallstreet thieves, pussified pay later schemes, failure to meet even his own employment standards, a war that never ends, a debasement of the dollar via the Fed Reserve good old boy network so on and so on.

  90. Look at the upside, Tex. $80,000 isn’t what it used to be and will be even less when the note’s paid. 🙂 The more they print, the less it is, more or less. 😀

  91. I like the way the article notes, “The U. S. Federal Reserve”, like it really was owned by US. Gawd, Americans today are soooo stoopid!

  92. Very hard hitting against the last bastion of free speech. Thank God for the ACLU in all this. I’m not always in their court, but here there is no question.

    In an era when Republicans and Democrats can agree on almost nothing, one issue in the last three months has been providing common ground: rewriting the rules of the Internet. Privacy and free speech advocates have unleashed a groundswell of outrage as they’ve rushed to rally the public against the measures. But corporate backers of the proposals have fought back hard.

    http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2012/04/cispa-sopa-pipa-and-biglobbying.html

  93. “Suck on that counselor.”

    Thanks for proving the point Mr. Reading comprehension? 🙄

    Great bumper sticker. Keep chanting it. November won’t be kind to your “one accomplishment” messiah.

    Suck on that.

  94. Ok. I take it back. I didn’t realize the Obama camp was using the Osama kill as a form of NEGATIVE campaigning!

    Forget the lack of patriotism and the morality of trying to divide America over the triumph, this is a moronic game plan! Of course America will see right through this. You can’t male a claim that Romney wouldn’t have nabbed Osama! How stupid.

    This should have been framed strictly in the positive. An American victory.

    Lol. Divide divide divide.

  95. I can’t believe how their spinning Osama. What desperation. This will not work.

    Brag about it. Remind us. All fair play.

    But just make hypothetical shit up about what Romney would or would not do in 2011 with the intelligence? On what grounds?

    I should have known something was up. Rutherford was swearing out of no where.

    I can always tell when our fan boy blog host grows terribly insecure over the choices of his Mount Olympus gods.

    What a joke this president is.

  96. Ah, time to resuscitate this discussion, eh R?

    “I want you to run two [sound] bites. One is what Barack Obama said after he caught and we killed bin Laden, and what George Bush says after we caught Saddam Hussein. They’re so different,” GOP consultant Alex Castellanos said on CNN Thursday. “One of them is ‘I … I … I did this’ and the other one is ‘We … we … we … and those brave men in the SEALs.’ It’s just a very different approach, and I think I sense some arrogance.”

    In his speech the night bin Laden was killed, Obama did portray himself as a key part of the narrative.

    “Shortly after taking office, I directed Leon Panetta, the director of the CIA, to make the killing or capture of bin Laden the top priority of our war against Al Qaeda,” Obama said that night. “I was briefed on a possible lead. … I met repeatedly with my national security team. … Finally, last week, I determined that we had enough intelligence to take action, and authorized an operation to get Osama bin Laden and bring him to justice.”

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0412/75696_Page2.html#ixzz1tJAWxDZZ

  97. Saw a run down of potential Veep choices. Saw a choice I never thought of. Rubio was discounted due to Obama-ness. Ryan was dropped due to his importance to the GOP. This is true especially if Romney loses. Ryan needs to be in the stable for sure. The surprise was Gen David Petreaus. Name recognition,likability and insane FP exposure. The gist of the article trashed the idea that VP choice is actually useful and offered only LBJ as a choice that did a winner any good.

    I’ve heard all of this including the name of Petraeus floated around. Ryan has also been dissed because his budget is considered a liability … easy mark for Dem opposition … and he shares Rubio’s youth which could cut both ways in terms of presidential readiness.

    Alfie makes the very valid strategic point that a VP on a losing ticket is not likely to resuscitate for a subsequent Pres run. That is one reason why a lot of the 2016 power players (Jeb, Ryan, Christie, Rubio) would probably prefer NOT to be the VP nom this year for fear of losing to Obama/Biden … even if only by a hair.

    What I’m dying to find out (and this will take a while) is will Hillary run in 2016? She says absolutely not, but the media wants her to soooo badly. Hillary vs a GOP power player in 2016 — damn that will be one fun election. This year, quite frankly is a yawner. Obama has lost his luster and Mitt is less exciting than paint drying.

  98. Pawlenty already bagged out.

    Meaning what? He gets tapped, he says yes. Plus he’s already been vetted as a possible McCain running mate back in 2008. (Portman has the same advantage … already vetted for budget director under Bush.)

  99. I did a quick walkie walk on various nations for what I’ll call a simple entry level immigrant.
    US= $580 Canada is a min of $400CDN with a buffet menu of additional charges and the UK comes in with £ 800 to £900

    Without knowing the US/Brit exchange rate, I don’t know how the UK price measures up.

    But Alfie, you’re making the assumption that Muffy was limiting her statement to financial burden. I assumed she also meant the bureaucratic hoops one has to jump through.

  100. November won’t be kind to your “one accomplishment” messiah.

    Not only do I have better reading comprehension than you, my math is superior. Osama is dead and GM is alive = TWO accomplishments.

    Is there a Tootsie Roll at the center of that thing you’re sucking? 😆

  101. I can’t believe the ignorance of Rutherford. It was Bush era intelligence and Bush era fallen warriors, one of them a former student of mine, that helped Obama kill Osama.

    Your television driven life, Rutherford, is simplistic, sheltered and sadly disrespectful.

    You spit on the fallen with your bull shit partisan dungeon and dragons game.

  102. You can’t male a claim that Romney wouldn’t have nabbed Osama! How stupid.

    I agree that is stupid. Could you point to where that was done? The only negative conjecture I’ve seen is that Romney would have let GM die .. and that is valid based on an editorial he wrote.

  103. Tigre, your quote of Obama is factual. What’s your problem? In fact, I’m not even sure the capture of Hussein is comparable to the capture of Bin Laden. Saddam was found hiding in a hole in the course of making war against Iraq. I’m not even aware of Bush even needing to authorize sh*t. Bin Laden on the other hand was an elusive fugitive who had an entire project dedicated to tracking him down, including a decision to take him out.

    When you guys start counting the “I”s of a GOP POTUS I’ll take you seriously.

  104. Regarding 152, Rabbit have you been drinking? In the space of one night you go from giving Obama his due to accusing me of “spitting on the fallen”.

    Save it. Over the top emotional BS. I NEVER said Barack Obama flew in a helicopter to Pakistan, ran into the building and shot Osama in the eye. I said he made the final call and that it was a risky and ballsy call. In fact, Bill Clinton (no big fan of Obama) said (emphasis mine): I only hope I would have made the same call.

    Osama got taken out due to the hard work of lots of people. No one is saying otherwise. But in the end, a decision had to be made and it turned out to be the right one. Give the man his due and STFU.

    P.S. Once you give me links proving that the Obama campaign is saying Romney would not have taken out Osama, then I will join you in your condemnation of their message. I look forward to seeing your links.

  105. We have traveled many miles with some adventures, so I hardly know where to begin. Rutherford, check the Drudge Report. The upper left part of the page has a link to The Hill. An extended part of an interview with Bill Clinton was released. Bill said he didn’t think Romney would have ordered the murder of Osama because Romney said in 2007 that the death of one man wasn’t worth the full use of our resources to kill him.

    Biden said Romney might not have made the right decision as he campaigned this week.

    Obama’s administration knows it can’t defend its record. All they have are personal attacks.

  106. I think there might be something to the comment that it may be harder for Hispanics to become citizens than Canadians etc.

    One of our farm magazines had an article about new technology to learn this year. The writer said drones are now available to check crop conditions. He didn’t elaborate. I’d like a drone. I’d send it around people’s swimming pools to stir them up.

    Mark Steyn in “America Alone” wrote we will lose the war with Islam because their birth rate is higher than ours. Europe and Japan are not reproducing fast enough, and their current eonomic problems partly reflect the unfavorable demographics.

    The United States is one country which will survive with its culture thanks to the immigrants who move here.

  107. The Note: “ABC News Micheal Falcone reports: ‘The Obama campaign opened up a new line of attack on Mitt Romehy suggesting that as commander-in chief, Romney might not have made the same decision to order an attack by US forces to kill terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden…”

    Four years ago, the Obama campaign criticized Democratic rival Hillary Clinton for using Osama bin Laden in a political ad.

    Lizzie in the comments section wrote “Today, Time magazine got hold of a memo written by then CIA head Leon Panetta after he received orders from Obama’s team to greenlight the bin Laden mission. The memo doesn’t show a gutsy call. It doesn’t show a president willing to take the blame for a mission one wrong. It shows a CYA maneuver by the White House.

    The memo puts all control in the hands of Admiral McRaven… The hero was McRaven, not Obama, And had the mission gone wrong, McRaven would have surely been thrown from the bus.”

    Obama made the right call, but he did it in a way which would have allowed him to shift the blame. He did it with the Iraqi surge when his administration took credit for the results. He also tried it when he visited the southern part of the Keystone pipeline and said it was there because of him. He has also done the same with our oil production.

    He may be our president, but Obama is still a Chicago community organizer at heart. Sarah Palin was right about him. I put that last sentence in to get a reaction.

  108. “Is there a Tootsie Roll at the center of that thing you’re sucking?”

    Yes. The thing that’s at the center of what you’ve been sucking calls itself “Obama.” 😆

  109. Re immigration: Except for the reality that south of the border immigration fails to offer the higher quality/desired immigrant due to skill set no I don’t see how the US immigration policy is harder on hispanics. The numbers would seem to bear me out and their geographic advantage trumps any perceived barrier other than financial.
    ps R it is much more expensive to get into the UK. They have a huge problem with assorted eastern Europeans and those from the colonial times.

  110. GM, NA is NOT a success. We’re still on the hook, and Obama placed it at a competitive advantage to its other US (and foreign) rivals. (e.g. giving at three look back period for losses its billions in losses).

    Of course, a lib would think subsidizing a losing enterprise (at the expense of many, many other companies in the squeeze out of creditors that got NOTHING, like Delphi) is an “accomplishment since we’re all paying for it and the union vote. WTG.

    I swear. You sure do know how to make a point.

    Keep up the losing mantra. I’m loving it.

    Oh, and keep sucking it too!

  111. “General Motors is once again No. 1 in global auto sales, after three years out of the top spot.” – CNN Money

    Thanks to a Tsunami. They’ll be number 2 again by the end of the year. Oh, and a majority of GM’s sales? China. Buwahahahahaha

    Rutherford, you are terribly ignorant of how Chapter 11 bankruptcy works. The loan bailout was not terribly different than a Chapter 11 reorganization, dummy. The only big difference was for the unions and who got to bail them out – the taxpayers.

  112. James, Rutherford knows what was said. He has Google. He wants to reconstruct the statement to mean something that portray his messiah a complete ninny.

    I would give anything if Rutherford were Obama’s campaign manager.

  113. Anybody find it ironic that our great warrior El Obomba chose the one man who we know for a fact wouldn’t have made the call to kill Bin Laden?

    Twice UBL was in the crosshairs. Twice, Clinton and Sandy Burglar nixed the idea. Add to the fact Sudan offered Bin Laden and Clinton turned the offer down for supposed “lack of evidence” because Clinton was terrified of the Islamic world, and there’s a long and sordid history of Dimocratic Presidential cowardice and defeatism.

    But I am delighted that Rutherford is finally in campaign mode. Gives us six months to bust his balls legitimately. 😀

  114. Like so many others, the final decision to pull the trigger on the world’s most-wanted man was delegated to an admiral who undoubtedly would have been thrown under the bus had the mission failed.

    It’s been almost a year since President Obama’s leadership and foreign policy bona fides were allegedly established by the operation that killed Osama bin Laden. A campaign film narrated by Oscar-winning actor Tom Hanks tells of the president’s alleged solitary, agonizing decision.

    With apologies to Vice President Biden, maybe President Obama doesn’t carry quite as big a stick as Joe would lead us to believe.

    As reported by Big Peace, Time magazine has obtained a memo written by Leon Panetta, then-director of the Central Intelligence Agency and now-Secretary of Defense, that says “operational decision-making and control” was really in the hands of William McRaven, a three-star admiral and former Navy SEAL.

    The man who would have been tossed under the bus had the mission failed.

  115. Its ironic that Obama’s campaign used Bill Clinton to muse about Romney. Bill let Ossama go, as we know.

    An e friend attended university with Bill in Cambridge UK. She is a California liberal who feels contempt for Bill. He is a coward. Obama sent a coward to do his work.

    Obama reminds me of a movie gangster who doesn’t beat his enemies. Hired thugs save him the trouble. The attempt to prosecute the men who gained some of the information which allowed our forces to disemble al Quiada and to get Ossama further illustrates his feral instincts.

  116. I haven’t read any comments yet this morning but I owe a hat tip to Rabbit. I read in the NYTimes this morning about the Obama campaign ad asking what would Mitt Romney have done re Osama.

    Rabbit is 100% right. That was one dumbass move. I hate to side with John McCain but he was right when he said it cheapens the victory of Osama’s death.

    I don’t know how much control Obama is exerting on campaign ads but he better start doing something. His ”supporters” are screwing him with these tactics. 😦

  117. @ R since its your side:

    His ”supporters” are screwing him with these tactics.

    Whats your read if any that the greater Left might want to “paint” Obama into a corner to make sure he veers left in a second term?

  118. His ”supporters” are screwing him with these tactics” – R

    Get used to it for the next six months. The dog and pony show has commenced. I expect Romney will employ similar tactics.

  119. “His ”supporters” are screwing him with these tactics” – R

    The President is on the hook for this. Have you been listening to him on tour? I have – as long as I can stand it, which is about 4-6 minutes. It’s revolting.

  120. It truly is nauseating, Muffy. Obama is wretched when he’s normal. Obama is insufferable when he is campaigning – I hate thugs posing as sweet men. Reminds me of corporate Exec lackeys.

    Obama is a ruthless bastard, truth be known. Like Krauthammer says, “Don’t listen to what he says, watch what Obama does.” And Obama’s actions don’t match his nice guy persona.

  121. Alfie, I based my remark mainly on the paradox that we aren’t enforcing the existing laws that keep them out, and we aren’t making it easier to come here legally. I’m not implying that the US isn’t generous with regard to immigration in general. Just that the restrictions don’t favor the Mexican hopeful.

  122. “I read in the NYTimes this morning about the Obama campaign ad asking what would Mitt Romney have done re Osama.”

    as referred to in my comment so carefully read by the razor-sharp Rutherford yesterday. 🙄

    Keep spiking the ball!!!!! All the unemployed and upside down want to hear from the courageous little man Obama!!!

    GM on the taxpayer’s dime!!! All the non UAW unemployed want to hear about too!!!!

  123. Political games and smack downs. Discrediting representatives and their “accomplishments” on the left or the right is ALL we got.

    Now we will go through months of pulling our dicks out and comparing them.

    This is what we’ve come to. Pitiful.

    Meanwhile, the powers behind the mask are raping the resources of nations, killing and contaminating peoples and nature to stay on top, while we enable and support them in their inhumane and immoral conquests.

    A private corporation (the FED) issues promissory notes in the name of our children to fund their own international criminal behaviors, while we play patty cake and prepare pigs in a poke for our prime time political parties.

    If Osama was the devil we made him out to be, his efforts then continue to be wildly successful. Even in death he continues to rule, dividing and conquering our nation. Sending our children to kill and maim darkish people across the globe in our ongoing colonial conquests. Training them from adolescence to master joy stick skills with rewards and bonuses for kills, the perfect segue to modern warfare.

    Some days I wish that planetary collision would hurry and occur. It’s time to hit the reset. Time to wipe the slate. Time for renewal.

  124. Tex, I picked up Biden’s recent speech about Romney’s lack of foreign policy experience (inherently a fair question) and it was right at the point where he kicked the “sweet” voice into high gear. All I could think of was that he sounded like he was trying to get to second base on a first date. I didn’t know whetther to laugh or run away.

  125. Some days I wish that planetary collision would hurry and occur. It’s time to hit the reset. Time to wipe the slate. Time for renewal.

    Why don’t you set the example of renewal for all of humanity? You could begin by eliminating yourself from the gene pool. I’ve already make you the yearly Darwin Award award candidate for the blog. 😉

  126. I was going to comment that the President’s “I, me, my” regarding the killing of Bin Laden ought to make him primarily responsible for the murder of an innocent man in poolman’s eyes.

    But I didn’t. 🙂

  127. The real Usama bin Laden died in December 2001. I think it’s only Americans that believe otherwise. The fake one was taken out last year, along with the SEALS that were in on it. The body was flown to Dover AFB and placed in cold storage, I believe (without digging back into the research). It has been proven all the bin Laden tapes were faked, just like the elaborate underground bunkers in Tora Bora that Rumsfeld described on teevee.

    Oh, and Muff – Santa Claus is not real either. Sorry.

  128. Nebraska representative Lee Terry said almost exactly what muffymcd wrote about immigration. He listed examples and said we may be unwittingly creating a few illegals.

    I liked 187 too.

    We are seeing the face behind the mask. Imagin a lame duck Obama administration with Democratic majorities in Congress and the opportunity to appoint a Supreme Court Justice or two.

    THEN, we might be singing REM’s “Its the End of the World.”

  129. Sorry poolman, my bad. I forgot UBL was already dead.

    Question. Did the President know he was already dead?

  130. Forget it. It’s like arguing with a traffic cone.

    “Imagin a lame duck Obama administration with Democratic majorities in Congress and the opportunity to appoint a Supreme Court Supreme Court Justice or two.” -James

    I was thinking the other day about the “devil you know” argument people like to make.

  131. Whats your read if any that the greater Left might want to “paint” Obama into a corner to make sure he veers left in a second term?

    I think they do so at great risk. General elections are for moderates, not ideologues. If Obama gives in to pressure by the more aggressive progressives to campaign far left it may doom his chances for reelection.

    The current “wisdom” from the pundits is that Obama will campaign as the moderate reasonable grownup in the room, painting Romney as a right wing extremist. I admit this tactic is slightly humorous. Romney is vanilla ice cream.

  132. Have you been listening to him on tour?

    I’m not sure what you find revolting Muffy. Is he the uniter? No. That ship has sailed never to return. Obama’s message must be that a vote for Romney represents a return to a past that didn’t turn out so well. I don’t see how that is “revolting”.

  133. I was thinking the other day about the “devil you know” argument people like to make.

    And what’s your conclusion? I’m really not particularly “afraid” of the devil called Mitt Romney. I think he will have an administration totally lacking in distinction. He’ll be a harmless Calvin Coolidge if the economy improves.

    What is more scary are the folks pulling the strings behind Romney. Let us not forget what Grover Norquist said at CPAC. It doesn’t matter who we put in the Oval Office so long as he signs whatever he’s told to sign. The power players like Grover want a puppet they can manipulate for the next four to eight years. THAT is the main reason why I did NOT donate to Obama this year but I did donate to the DSCC. We need a congress who will keep Romney’s puppet masters in check in the event that Romney wins the election.

  134. Well, I’ve never argued with a traffic cone, so I would not know. They serve a particular purpose and arguing would seem fruitless. To me.

    Sometimes we just want to hear the things that do not upset us. I am not that way. As long as the internet is free, anyone can review documents that were formerly classified. It does change what we were told at the time. But we have to be willing to want to know the truth, even if it isn’t pretty. Most Americans don’t, as I have witnessed countless times over the years. So you have plenty of company.

  135. Poolman, I saw a GITMO attorney named Clive Stafford Smith on TV this morning who talked briefly about the government’s ability to spy on its own people using drones. In fact he said that plans are already in place at the Olympics this year to use drones to monitor activity.

    You know, as nutty as it sounded, I wouldn’t completely put it past the realm of possibility that you did have some sort of nano-spy flying around your back yard.

    Now Osama being dead in 2001 …. that one is harder for me to swallow.

  136. “Is he the uniter? No.” -R

    I don’t think I find the absence of a uniter at the podium quite as objectionable as the blatant divisiveness coming directly from him. In truth I find it rather shocking for a President.

  137. Question for the noble gathering here prompted by a debate I watched this morning:

    If we kill one Al Qaeda member in a drone strike that kills fourteen innocent civilians, including pregnant women and children, is the collateral damage worth it? I’m finding it hard to say we as a nation take the moral high ground when we engage like this.

  138. @ muffy 182 thank you for the follow up.
    I think with that clearer picture Romney’s maligned self deportation position is actually the order of the day. Given the economy it has been seen to be occurring anyway especially in the south and southwest with Mexicans and in the northeast with Brazilians.

    I’m curious if the board has an opinion on a strict quota system like days gone by. Also does anyone care to explore at what point does government have an obligation to make legal citizens work.?

  139. Thank goodness for the research department of the RL Blog. Turns out I fell on my sword too quickly on the Romney/Osama thing. Romney SAID in 2007 that going after bin Laden was not worth the money and effort. Therefore it is fair game to conjecture that Romney would NOT have taken out Osama.

    You’re a bunch of GOP talking points rubes. That’s the last time I scream mea culpa without doing my homework first. 😦

  140. @Rutherford #200.
    A handful of double edged swords you’re juggling there.
    Obama hold a clear claim to fame of an internationally noticed increase in drone attacks against targets, especially in Pakistan. It is also pretty clear what residents in the Af/Pak theater feel about this.

    Foreign Policy magazine has an array of essays addressing the Al Qaeda/ Bin Laden phenomenon. Bottomline Al Qaeda isn’t all that jacked up regards his loss,basically OBL gone is limited to a West feel good moment which will diminish with a successful strike from AQ. AQ is actually showing signs of a consolidation and expansion with inroads into Arab Spring locales,also huge growth in Africa. They’re not gone by a long shot.

    All in all when you take on an enemy so deeply rooted in ideology you are instantly in a no win situation.

  141. “And what’s your conclusion?”

    That I’m worried we aren’t going to be able to withstand President Obama’s domestic policies for another four years.

    Not to discount your points aboput Romney’s steadfastness. It’s a good one.

  142. Rutherford don’t I’ve the RL research monkeys their bonus. The 2007 interview looked a little like this:

    GOVERNOR ROMNEY: I think, I wouldn’t want to over-concentrate on Bin Laden. He’s one of many, many people who are involved in this global Jihadist effort. He’s by no means the only leader. It’s a very diverse group – Hamas, Hezbollah, al-Qaeda, Muslim Brotherhood and of course different names throughout the world. It’s not worth moving heaven and earth and spending billions of dollars just trying to catch one person. It is worth fashioning and executing an effective strategy to defeat global, violent Jihad and I have a plan for doing that.
    SIDOTI: But would the world be safer if bin laden were caught?
    GOVERNOR ROMNEY: Yes, but by a small percentage increase – a very insignificant increase in safety by virtue of replacing bin Laden with someone else. Zarqawi – we celebrated the killing of Zarqawi, but he was quickly replaced. Global Jihad is not an effort that is being populated by a handful or even a football stadium full of people. It is – it involves millions of people and is going to require a far more comprehensive strategy than a targeted approach for bin laden or a few of his associates.
    SIDOTI: Do you fault the administration for not catching him though? I mean, they’ve had quite a few years going after him.
    GOVERNOR ROMNEY: There are many things that have not been done perfectly in any conduct of war. In the Second World War, we paratroopered in our troops further than they were supposed to be from the beaches. We landed in places on the beaches that weren’t anticipated. Do I fault Eisenhower? No, he won. And I’m nowhere near as consumed with bin Laden as I am concerned about global Jihadist efforts

  143. Rutherford, I referred to the Romney quote when I first mentioned the subject. It was here at the beginning. You should have covered yourself by looking it up.

    Now, Alfie is twisting the sword.

    Even if the statement was in the context you imagined and Alfie’s quote didn’t exist, Romney is NOT fair game. He made his commet FIVE YEARS ago. If we hold Obama to the same standards, who is the imposter in our White House, a refugee from Fringe? He either changed his mind or he was hoodwinking us all.

    As Martin Luther King knew when he was stabbed in the chest, removing the weapon too soon causes excessive bleeding. Remove the sword in a doctor’s office.

    Thanks to our allied War on Terror, Osama became the jihadist movement’s Colonel Sanders. It doesn’t matter if he died in 2001 or our men killed a body double. Colonel Sanders is a symbol and nothing more.

  144. The big difference, James, is the Colonel may slowly poison us with secret ingredients, but we don’t have to buy it. The “war on terror”, along with the other “wars” we have been forced to participate and contribute to. Similarly, though, the chicken hawks are calling the shots. 😉

  145. It’s not out of the realm of possibility that Obama sucked that drug addict’s cock. Remember that guy? Is that the new standard now days? If its within the realm of possibility according to the natural laws of the universe we tip our hat to some a scum bag who slanders for a hobby?

  146. off topic but who cares. I just did one of those interactive electoral maps…I got Mitt winning with a min of 287 a max of 302. You heard it here first. lol
    R something for you to cut and paste until November at least

  147. Romney and many Dems for that matter stressed that the Afghan offensive did not revolve around king stink beard. This doesn’t mean that with the right Intel Osama was off the table. Rutherford, nice try

  148. a fellow blogger is outraged that a detroit lion is due to be the Madden cover. He is aghast at the potential for the Madden curse.
    you a lions fan dr ?

  149. Back on the political note: Dateline September 19 2001

    In his brief article for the Herald, Obama started out by writing some routine lines about renewing security standards at airports, strengthening intelligence networks, and “dismantling” the networks of those who carried out “these heinous attacks.” Ordinary stuff. But he also talked about “the more difficult task of understanding the sources of such madness.”
    “The essence of this tragedy, it seems to me, derives from a fundamental absence of empathy on the part of the attackers: an inability to imagine, or connect with, the humanity and suffering of others,” he wrote. “Such a failure of empathy, such numbness to the pain of a child or the desperation of a parent, is not innate; nor, history tells us, is it unique to a particular culture, religion, or ethnicity….”
    “We will have to make sure, despite our rage, that any U.S. military action takes into account the lives of innocent civilians abroad,” he went on. “We will have to be unwavering in opposing bigotry or discrimination directed against neighbors and friends of Middle Eastern descent. Finally, we will have to devote far more attention to the monumental task of raising the hopes of embittered children across the globe—children not just in the Middle East, but also in Africa, Asia, Latin American, Eastern Europe, and within our own shores.”

  150. I remember that pile of manure. It sounded out of place at the time.

    It was not out of place at the time. The only thing that makes it manure in retrospect is how many innocents we’ve killed in the two wars.

    What Obama said in the Herald is absolutely true. There is no innate quality that made those 19 lunatics fly planes into American landmarks. They were the products of a sociological phenomenon that, if we don’t try to understand it and counteract it, will make the “war on terror” never ending.

  151. Alfie thanks for putting Romney’s comment in context. Frankly it doesn’t change my opinion very much. Dead Rabbit was acting like out of the clear blue sky the Obama campaign was conjecturing that Romney wouldn’t take out bin Laden. I took his outrage without doing due diligence and jumped on the bandwagon. BUT HE WAS WRONG. Even within the context of the full comment, Mitt was minimizing Osama’s role and suggesting finding him wasn’t worth the effort.

    Obama did not just authorize the final strike … he authorized the renewed effort to locate bin Laden. From Mitt’s comment, Mitt might not have authorized that renewed effort …. and therefore he would not have found nor captured/killed bin Laden. Therefore the conjecture of the campaign ad is not even in the same universe as conjecture that “Obama sucked that drug addict’s cock.”

    Bottom line — the OUTRAGE about the ad was unwarranted and once again some of you have been exposed to be the drama queens you are.

    For more “As The World Turns” drama, read BiW’s latest piece about the Obama campaign exposing donors to Romney. Another tempest in a teapot.

  152. A reminder and a word of caution about Romney for all you guys so desperate to see Obama gone that you’re supporting Romney:

    Virtually EVERYTHING the man says today can be found contradicted by himself if we go back far enough in the published record. This should make debating Romney akin to shooting fish in a barrel.

  153. It is manure, Rutherford.

    Those terrorists, who believe it is fine to have sex with their dead wives, who indulge in pedophiliae under the guies of arranged marrage and who stone their wayward wives or relatives deserve no understanding from us. We should understand them as well as possible for another reason. We should know their motives and modes of operation so we can better kill them.

    Innocents will die as they always do, but they are not our innocents. They are “theirs.” Many of those innocents cheered the terrorists and celebrated in the streets. Actually, our war efforts were some of the most protective of innocent people than any in history.

    When I watched the office workers so paniced, they dived out of windows and smashed into the street like sacks of wet cement or when I saw a man climb down twelve stories before he fell, I remembered a man and his teenaged daughter who were trapped in a wrecked truck. They were cremated alive when the fire started. I still dream about it sometimes.

    I remember the men who tried to kill me. It was them or me, and I used my “understanding” of them for my own advantage. Everything was an unknown. I used a knife instead of a pistol so I wouldn’t do something stupid. I knew my days were numbered, and I was beyond caring. I just wanted it to end. I was numb.

    You say Romney is an unknown. Yes, he is. But like Obama, he has a record which looks better than the President’s. I regard Obama to be the same as the men who meant to hurt me to protect themselves. I cannot imagine a worse fate than four more years of unencombered Obama and Democratic rule of Congress.Whatever Romney might do, it would be less destructive than Obama’s plans.

    Bush properly said we must not condemn the reiigion and resident Muslems who had nothing to do with the attacks. He got credit for our relatively tollerant attitude toward Muslims at the time.

    Blame “yourself.” “You” sent “me” to war, and “you” mistreated “me” when “I” returned. “You” gave me the education which let me recognize Obama’s garbage for what it was. I wish more of you with that world view had been as well schooled as I was.

  154. Obama’s campaign to intimidate donnors is not a” tempist in a tea pot”.While its true the few individuals don’t mean much by themselves, the site is an attempt to influence the election through intimidation. In its way the revelation is in the same class as Black Panters who visited voting sites.

    It is also akin to the official who compared energy companies to towns at war with Rome. Romans crucified five or six men as examples. The rest fell in line. The campaign is publishing uncomplimentary information so other potential contributors will think twice. It is the same as town residents watching several of their citizens die on crosses.

  155. Obama didn’t suddenly start searching for Ossama. The Bush administration for its down playing a preoccupation with bin Ladin was still searching. Two or three agencies were involved.

    Ironically some of the information which led to Ossama’s death was gleaned through waterboarding.

    Obama tried to politicise the success by maximising his role , and by implying bin ladin would still be alive if Romeney was president. Outrage was warrented even if it is false because Obama is trying to construct steriotypes of a rich out of touch politician with no connection to the rest of us. Ironically Obama is in the same boat. Romney must fight the attempts to define him as a person as Obama surely will when ads attack his personality.

  156. I love it when you’re cocky, Rutherford. It will make your messiah’s blowout defeat all the much sweeter. I can’t believe you’re dumb enough to believe a media that has so let you down.

    We let you off the hook after 2010 and your inglorious predictions in line with Nancy Pelosi. This time, we’ll have to finish you off and bury you with an avalanche of continual taunts and put downs for at least two years. 😈

  157. Rutherford first and foremost I have to say that on this issue Romney has been succinct and consistent. Today,2007,his chapter on the topic in No Apology.
    Everything in the supplied context quote is a truth that we are dealing with today.
    1) sure its campaign crap on the behalf of Biden,no bastion of truth and clear thinking there.
    2)It was a cheap lie at heart campaign shot
    3) your defense shows your O Love,you get a cookie.
    4) Our calling it what it IS is right now just like if you get something down the road.

    As for interactive map I’m not digging the link out of the history. it was 270towin or something like that. It comes starting with the “givens” in place. Mirrors RCP poll avg. I gave Mitt: NH,FL,PA,OH,VA, and NV from the toss up pile Obama got IA and NC and CO.
    Bottomline the true swingers this year is a trifecta of FL,PA and OH. I just don’t see Romney losing those,if he loses 1 he loses the game.
    Uhh the joy of living in a political irrelevant state.

  158. Under the corporations are people meme etc. Rutherford you are getting your election erection on earlier but go for it.
    A campaign that embraces boycotting and other various shenanigans that it would eventually deny publicly but privately be jazzing about in the back room is a disgrace. Thats your side right now.
    I hope the Obama campaign tactics do work at some level. I will enjoy going to company xyz and telling the unemployed to be sure to thank BHO.

  159. Alfie, to be absolutely truthful what Rutherford sanctions is legalized theft, defeatism, cowardice, and long term, abject poverty – though I have absolutely no doubt at this moment Rutherford does not recognize it as much, and might even find it charitable. I don’t believe blind men like Rutherford intend to be evil – but their aspirations and desires for their type of leadership and government certainly lend itself to evil and its imminent conclusion of destruction. Nothing could be clearer than this country is on the road to destruction if we choose the same path we chose four years ago. And no Rutherford, I am not being melodramatic. Our country is sinking under the weight of debt.

    I’ll guarantee you this. If our founders could see what has become of their America and spoke their convictions, they would be held in contempt by at least half of the American public. Our founders so obviously distrusted big government, that they staked their own family’s lives on distancing themselves from it.

    Anybody that sanctions another four years of Obama has this in common – a character of weakness most of it composed of covetousness, and/or envy and hate. I’m tired of this beating around the bush with these pandering,weak minded fools.

    Our ballooning government who buys votes, our politicians who steal from the public coffers and lie about promises they can’t possibly keep, have their collective thumb on these foolish men and women. Look at the demographics who support Obama. The arrogant power brokers and academia who have sold us this stupidity, the disenfranchised, the miserable, those who can be bought and sold like chattel.

    What was it Rutherford said about Romney’s women problem? Let’s be more specific about who these women are – the uneducated, single mother and the over educated single, liberal feminist. Married women are not part of that equation of the Romney female problem.

    Rutherford is always fond of quoting “What’s the Matter with Kansas?” That’s what fools quote from. Rutherford and every other liberal sees self reliance as a weakness and government as the solution – that is bottom line what they sanction. I believe they are too scared to fend for themselves because a lifetime of indoctrination from their taskmasters has convinced them they aren’t wise enough or too weak.

    The problem isn’t what is the matter with Kansas. The problem is what the hell is the matter with people so weak they are willing to sell their souls for a bowl of porridge, indebted their rest of their lives to a soulless master called statism.

  160. “Look at who the wind’s blowing up the road
    shining like a northern star
    Acting like the answer to all my prayers
    But baby, i know what you really are

    There was a time I was a true believer
    Your love was the only way
    Well, you can save all your sweet talking
    for some other fool
    Only a fool would believe what you say

    Oh, time is a teacher, he’s taught me well
    A loser is the one who cries
    And when you’ve cried like a baby
    and felt like hell
    you know the devil by the look
    in his eyes”

    Jenifer Warnes

    I keep score as we all should. Look at hope and change. Look at the broken promises and compare reality to gauzy dreams. If “you” put this man and his party back in power for another four years, I guarantee you will cry “like a baby”

    We will be in the same boat, but we will mercelessly laugh at “your” folly and take grim satisfaction as you realize you did it to us all. OTB and other liberals will feel our schadenfreude. . .

  161. Innocents will die as they always do, but they are not our innocents. They are “theirs.” Many of those innocents cheered the terrorists and celebrated in the streets. Actually, our war efforts were some of the most protective of innocent people than any in history.

    James, this is total bullshit. Were there any folks cheering our demise? Sure. Even some Israelis were high-fiving each other and dancing in the street. Bibi was near orgasmic, saying how good all this was for Israel.

    Yeah, we certainly have a “kinder, gentler machine gun hand”. 👿

  162. Poolman,

    By all rights, I am convinced our Founding Fathers would have had you publicly hung, perhaps horse whipped for first offense. You are a drag on our country, adding nothing of benefit that I can decipher. You are the lowest of the low, even low by Chatty Kitchen standards.

    You’re a cowardly traitor, a leech, and and somewhat useless useful idiot.

    You can kiss my ass, and if you were here in my presence, rest assured you would be with my boot on your chest. I hope to make your acquaintance one day, only for a moment so you can get the opportunity.

    Now you think about that while you hold onto both ass cheeks daily, lowlife.

  163. I think there are many ways America is facing serious decline and overall transformation.
    I’m currently reading Manning Up by K. Hymowitz and have been “studying” the topic independently. The strengthening of women in society and the unintended consequence it has had on many males is fascinating stuff.
    As I noted earlier the hispanic population is not something (R)’s need to fear. In the short term they will electorally be (D) but offer bipartisan discussion on issues which I think will help (R) more often.
    As for the women vote. I think as a den they are still to segmented to be a boon or bust for anyone. I think polls paint conflicting realities on women. They are indeed different on issues but they are not monolithic when spread across the nation.
    I haven’t seen anything coming right out and saying but then again I don’t swim in those circles… Romney will obviously get some of this and some of that…but hands down if he captures the white guy vote he wins. So my question is does anyone think he’ll do worse at capturing the white guy vote than McCain did?

  164. Tex, I’m convinced our founding fathers would not recognize this country as the one they helped to establish.

    We’re Israel’s bulldog. Nothing more, nothing less.

  165. So my question is does anyone think he’ll do worse at capturing the white guy vote than McCain did?-Alfie

    As long as he doesn’t attach Palin to his side, he’ll do better.

  166. I think Rutherford’s constant winks and nods to poolman are almost more disgusting then the scum bag himself.

    Poolman is Vichy France personified. A coward convinced of a great evil who does NOTHING about it because this evil America has chosen socialism of late and poolman the mighty patriarch foresaw more freebies.

    Throw him a small bag of silver. Or maybe Planned Parenthood contact info, the coward temporarily forgets his accusations against America on 9/11. Judas decided to hang himself. We can only hope.

  167. 237 what point in the quote insert do you have a problem with?
    Yeah that’s actually a very serious/honest question.

    Really? Really? Their innocents and our innocents? WTF is that about? Can we say double standard?

    The killing of hundreds of thousands of men, women, and children – collateral damage (or bug splat, as the military refers to them) – is somehow justified in Afghanistan and Iraq because (supposedly) 15 Saudis, 2 UAE, 1 Egyptian, and 1 Lebanese terrorist attacked us?

    And our “war efforts were the most protective of innocent people than any in history”.

    Borrowing from Tex here, ***GUFFAW***

    Puh-leeze. I don’t even know where to start here. Obviously you haven’t checked with anyone surviving the devastation of 21 years of our military actions in Iraq. DU, anyone? Gawd, we’re fucked.

    Yeah, we’re the white hats. We are the righteous. 🙄

  168. Maybe you guys can explain why more soldiers have died of suicide in these conflicts than have been killed by enemy fire. Maybe you can tell me why every 80 minutes a veteran takes his life. Maybe you can explain why more military people have sent campaign contributions to Ron Paul than ALL other candidates combined.

    But go ahead and pimp for Romney. He represents you well.

  169. Perhaps it is not my place to fight for James’ words but then again I asked a question based on my own concerns and interpretations. I also would rather do the blog thing than the yard work that beckons.

    As noted by our host Rutherford I am possibly the most capable of detachment within these threads.

    If you seriously doubt great efforts were made to prevent innocent loss of life I fear you are either ignorant,blind, woefully un/mis informed or truly truly anti-American.I know from personal experience that the US has and continues to risk the lives and safety of its service members in an effort not to harm people and structures deemed sensitive,innocent,collateral what have you.
    War has consequences and yes I indeed count among them the long list of life long enemies we have created through our actions.

    As for the innocents part,that is quite simply a reality. From an American standpoint American life is paramount.

    As for righteousness. I don’t subscribe to that fallacy. Pax Americana was good and bad. I subscribe to Real Politik and that Pax Americana was good for me for the most part is all that matters. that it benefits others and offers returns to me and mine is gravy.
    FWIW Pax Americana is over and we now await what will come from the growing multi-sphere global era an era that regardless of the last decades of PA pros and cons will include an Islamic sphere.

  170. As for the innocents part,that is quite simply a reality. From an American standpoint American life is paramount.

    Wow. Really flabbergasted here. Honestly, I’m certain this is the mindset here.

    Did you ever try on someone else’s shoes? [rhetorical]

    Do you think all other nationalities differentiate this way?

    I guess as long as you don’t claim it some sort of Christian theology. But nationalism and fascism certainly doth raise its head here. History is replete with this mentality. It generally doesn’t end well.

  171. Wow. Really flabbergasted here. Honestly, I’m certain this is the mindset here.
    As well it should be. The thing is though you seem to take it as a blanket negative,you fault o think it out.
    Did you ever try on someone else’s shoes?
    If you actually care and are asking about my level of empathy it does indeed exist. More so though I am inclined to really only care about my shoes,offer shoes to others that need them and generally respect the shoe choice of others. Wrap your head around that.
    Do you think all other nationalities differentiate this way?
    Absolutely! I should add the qualifier that they have to be honest folks. It is human nature both inert and learned. So yeah an honest Russian,Turk,Iranian or Maldivian will indeed care more about themselves before invoking a selflessness.

    As for the Christian theology bit. yeah see you can’t bang me on that one. The faiths of the world are great things and I personally find Christianity hands down the best one,but humanity trumps all eventually since all faiths and “isms” can be and have been perverted by humans.
    I do indeed believe in a form of nationalism but not in any way you imagine since I do indeed subscribe to the limited govt. philosophy the USA was meant to exemplify. Fascism is not part of my mantra.

  172. Before I head to the yard.
    Military related suicide is a tragedy. The numbers are not what you buy into though pool man.
    A total of at least 6440 casualties beats the suicide numbers I find. On a “rate” basis the numbers do indeed look terrible.Thats the trouble with agenda math and stats.
    As for reasons it is quite obvious. You cannot load folks with chemicals,rage and despair and think shit isn’t gonna go wrong. I got a lot of experience on suicide and Rx over reliance when studies were being conducted in South Boston’s housing projects. We know the problems we just don’t like admitting to them.
    As for Ron Paul donations. Have you ever served? I have and it never ceased to amaze me that the mentality of many in the forces trend narrow.Theres the answer to that one

  173. you ought to think it out.
    I don’t know about anyone else but Lions spell check works on WordPress and does stuff against my intent.
    If you don’t see a suggestion and it thinks you meant something else…Boom it roars.
    Damn you Steve Jobs

  174. Poolman, don’t call BS on something you know nothing about. It is fine to bemoan the deaths of innocent people who had the misfortune to be killed. We feel superior as we sit in our safe and warm surroundings to debate the morality of murder. It makes us feel good and upright, doesn’t it? But it is BS. Realty is not our nice homes and pretty streets. Realty lies beneath.

    Tear off the veneer of civilization, and you will see what we really are. We are feral wolves. A war takes us to the most elemental nature of competing lives– a fight for survival. If a country sends its young people to kill others, it owes them every effort to win. If it means killing civilians that’s too bad for the civilians. As we used to say in the service, “better you than me.”

    No one should needlessly murder civilians, but as Alfie noted as far as protecting innocents form or weapons, we are among the most scrupulous nations in history. If the threat is so minimal that we can’t abide killing civilians, we should avoid the war.

    Like Alfie, I don’t ascribe righteousness to the United States. All societies, do what they do to survive. We attach false morality to our actions to justify our barbarism. Our belonging to this society benefits us. Therefore our welfare is more important than all others.’

    You know why so many soldiers are killing themselves. We over used them and sent their minds to dark places. We say we honor our veterans, but they are disposable tools. If they served their purpose good for them. We are raising plenty of replacements for our later wars.

    I hope I don’t sound bitter, but experience and reading have taught me to view the world differently than many do.

  175. Poolman. I did try on others’ shoes. I studied their motivations and learned to think and feel like them. My superiors were shaken when they saw what nearly happened. Others’ shoes warned me, and I lived.

    I can empathise as well as anyone. But the veneer is gone, my welfare comes first. It is true of you also.

  176. I have always liked that song, Poolman. Our Cro- Magnon ancesters could have sung it after the last Neanderthal died. The Greatest Generation might also have sung the song after they fire bombed Dresden or fried Japanese with the atom bomb. Our people were the winners, so we benefited. Someday a society will defeat us, and morality will justify their bloodshed.

  177. Poolman, I swear to you. If by chance, worlds collide, before Ali Baba and His 40 thieves start running through our backyards, I”m going to help Ali saw your miserable head off. 😈 You are an absolute disgrace to humanity.

    Frickin’ Tokyo Rose, Private Bradley Manning personified, with a little Charlie Manson wannabee.artist in him. I hope those insect drones you’ve been finding in your side yard 🙄 🙄 🙄 have little miniature Harpoon Missiles to gouge your eyes out next time.

    It’s petrifying morons like you nullify my vote.

  178. James,

    Being you haven’t something Poolman doesn’t have, namely class and a brain, it worth reminding the useful idiot that if the last election had been up to the Iraqi people, we’d be saying President McCain right now. So much for U.S. brutality.

    The fact this parasitical oaf bemoans America’s imperialism is a testament to Poolman’s profound stupidity. We could have left Baghdad a smoldering ash heap in about two days had we been cut from the cloth Poolman insinuates the American military is. Instead, we used precision guidance systems to minimize collateral death.

    Poolman is so full of it, crap percolates out of Poolman’s ears 24/7.

  179. Man, if this isn’t the truth.

    “My point is that self-loathing cultural relativism is so deeply ingrained on the left that any revulsion to dog-eating is trumped by revulsion to criticizing any of the rich, vibrant, cultural diversity out there in Indonesia or anywhere else. Most polygamy in the developed world is nothing to do with Mormons: It’s widely practiced by western Muslims, whose plural marriages are recognized de facto by French and Ontario welfare departments and de jure by Britain’s pensions department. But ‘edgy’ ‘transgressive’ leftie comics on sad, pandering standup shows will reserve their polygamy jokes for Mormons until the last stern-faced elder in Utah keels over at the age of 112.” Or until Mormons start sawing off heads. Transgressiveness has its limits. ~ Mark Steyn

  180. Deeply ingrained self-loathing cultural relativism. . .

    Dead on.

    Alfie, did you ever locate/see a breakdown of the impact of the Hispanic vote on the electoral votes? My suspicion is that the so-called disparity is way overblown.

    So too with the so-called gender blocks.

    Poolman, as delicately, tactfully and diplomatically as I know how to say it, FUCK YOU. Tex, you are far too kind.

  181. Thanks Tex.

    Iraqis who settled in Omaha and Lincoln also supported McCain.

    Fox News Sunday cited a poll of Hispanics showing 45% support the Arizona immigration law and 43% oppose it.

  182. ET I hinted way back @ 131 that electorally they don’t present an issue. It is more of being worthy of bipartisan dialog that the hispanic population matters.

  183. Alfie, I saw that. I will muddle around for something directly on. I watched the pinheads on MSNBC in effect claiming that the Hispanic vote was the death of Romney.

  184. When I watched the office workers so paniced, they dived out of windows

    Wow James. Comment 228 in its entirety misses the perspective of those Muslims dancing in the street. You applaud the death of innocent Afghans, who you claim cannot really be innocent because they are Afghans. And they applaud the death of those office workers because they believe our government to be evil and all of its citizens part and parcel to that evil.

    Either we’re going to have a religious war in which we wipe Muslims off the planet or we need to better understand what fuels their rage.

  185. It will make your messiah’s blowout defeat all the much sweeter.

    And you call ME cocky? Believe me, and take this to the bank, if Romney wins he will win by a hair. You live in a bubble my friend through which light is refracted. You couldn’t see things clearly if they hit you over the head.

  186. Alfie I’m not at all convinced Romney will win PA. If Obama wins CO and NM I believe it makes it unnecessary to win Ohio and FL.

    I’ll try to Google your map and see if I can find it.

  187. After more than 20 years, I’ve finally decided to tell the world what I witnessed in 1991, which I believe was one of the biggest turning point in popular music, and ultimately American society. I have struggled for a long time weighing the pros and cons of making this story public as I was reluctant to implicate the individuals who were present that day. So I’ve simply decided to leave out names and all the details that may risk my personal well being and that of those who were, like me, dragged into something they weren’t ready for.

    http://www.hiphopisread.com/2012/04/secret-meeting-that-changed-rap-music.html

  188. Alfie, your memory is just as good as your web history listing. It was indeed 270towin.com. Great site. But now I’m depressed because I can’t seem to get him to win without either FL, OH, or PA. I thought there was a way he could but I honestly don’t see either VA or NC going to him this time. I flipped NV to blue. I gave Obama NH despite their poor racial history (Dartmouth the only Ivy to have on campus racial strife). I even gave Obama Iowa.

    He might still win PA and then Romney is a goner. Like I said, it will be a squeaker.

  189. That Obama is in the race at all is a sad commentary on how pathetic and parasitical this country has become. But I would remind you Rutherford, your predictions have not just been wrong. They’ve been catastrophically wrong for four years now since the 2008 election.

    Unless Romney blows the debates, if Romney will play hardball Obama style and trade blow for blow, and is willing to get down and dirty and expose this f…ing bastard as the jack boot thug he is, if Romney is as good in campaigning in the national election as he has been in the Republican electoral, and most importantly if he will lay clearly the abject failure of Obama in terms that layman understand, Romney will win decisively.

    And states like Illinois and California will collapse from their own weight of regulation, state pensions, and general liberalism. The urban centers of both are already cesspools, including where you live. And I will laugh at their calamity, knowing it will earned and deserved.

  190. Poolman does it again!!!! In his honor … Neil Young … Rockin’ in the Free World!!!!!

    We got a thousand points of light
    For the homeless man
    We got a kinder, gentler,
    Machine gun hand

    We got department stores
    and toilet paper
    Got styrofoam boxes
    for the ozone layer
    Got a man of the people,
    says keep hope alive
    Got fuel to burn,
    got roads to drive.

  191. Leave it to Europe to lay out the only thing Obama stands for:

    Himself. Says all you need to know about this maggot in chief. Country is going to hell in a handbasket, and Obama never leaves campaign mode, because frankly community activist and pander is all he knows how to do.

    Obama has held more re-election fundraisers than previous five Presidents combined as he visits key swing states on ‘permanent campaign’.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2136851/Obama-held-fundraisers-previous-Presidents-combined-visits-key-swing-states-permanent-campaign.html

  192. In answer to Alfie, I have no doubt Romney will get more “white guys” than McCain … particularly older uneducated white guys.

    But Alfie, do I understand you to say the women’s vote is not worth courting? They cannot be a deciding factor?

  193. Thanks El Tigre.

    Rutherford, don’t forget, discussions of life and death are not theoretical to me. I don’t applaud any death. A person of reproductive age who dies takes unborn generations with him or her so the tragedy is multiplied countless times. Again, our civilians are more deserving of life because they are our people. The other side feels the same about its citizens. I care more about our side than theirs.

    Our responsibility is to ourselves, as it is for every living thing. Consider WW11, the “good war.” We didn’t try to understand why our enemies attacked us. We destroyed them. The Axis states had better reasons to hate us than the Muslims do. If you want, I could explain the world according to Hitler, Tojo, and the Mussilini. If we were their countrymen, we would have hated the United States too.

    The Soviet Union has an expansionist history like ours. We have much in common. They also had legitimate grievances against the West. However, both sides were rational and could find commonality. We installed safeguards to avoid nuking each other.

    Most Muslims want to live their lives peacefully, but an unknown percentage gives tacit approval to the !0% or so radical fundamentalists. They are fighting a war which began around 700 AD. We may better understand them, but there is no common ground. We offend them because we are infidels. I agree, we should better understand the jihadists so we can use the information against them.

    One society or theirs will eventually destroy the other as you wrote. This war may last for generations longer, and the outcome is uncertain.

    I agree, Obama can still win the election, and if so, we, including you will eventually rue the day–major rueage.

  194. Comment from X-File’s link:

    A very nice story, but probably belongs in the fiction section. No source? No name? No credibility! Then again some people will fall for anything! I bet the Illuminati was behind this one too right? Thanks for the read though Ivan!

    Bingo.

  195. Rabbit be disgusted with the winks and nods at Poolman all you like. There are days when I honestly wonder if Poolman is closer to the “truth” than a lot of us are … then we are truly f*cked aren’t we?

    Stay with me one second … let’s boil down Poolman’s main themes to more generic statements:

    1. Our policy toward Israel is irrationally biased. I don’t see how anyone can deny this. Our approach is that Israel simply can do no wrong. It is not in the cards. But Israel, like every other country is run by fallible human beings. Israel can do wrong. But you can’t say that here cos then you’re an evil anti-Semite.

    2. There are folks with money that control a lot of what goes on in the world. Again, this doesn’t seem a stretch to me at all. The financial meltdown was an example of rich folks doing whatever they wanted, unchecked. Their power was all consuming and kowtowed to by just about everyone. In the aftermath of Citizens United, someone like Newt Gingrich who under normal circumstances would have vanished early in the primary season, was sustained by a rich guy. The wealthy now control our elections.

    3. The generally consumed media aren’t necessarily going to tell you the true story. Hell, you guys all believe that when it comes to the liberal media.

    Sure I agree that Poolman can come off wacky when he insists bin Laden’s been dead since 2001 but couldn’t a reasonable man build a case for why our government would “keep him alive” in order to maintain a symbol for continued threat to our country … and therefore the need for us to keep fighting wars?

  196. I am glad a clamer R showed up. There are ways for your guy and it will be a close race. The final electoral counts can be a little deceiving.The only thing about polls and the 270 site is that everyone is giving the “givens”. I kinda wonder if some of the touted toss ups aren’t more decided and some of the so called decideds are actually toss ups.
    Wow that para calls for me to be drunk lol
    As for
    Either we’re going to have a religious war in which we wipe Muslims off the planet or we need to better understand what fuels their rage.

    Not necessarily. Remember as I often told Elric Muslims are the number 1 victims of extremist violence,we needn’t have a theologic or political clash of civilizations. As I told pools earlier the world is awakening to a new dawn of multi-sphere global issues. Some of those are or are shaping up to be:

    the Anglo-sphere: common laws and language. This sphere offers all the logical choices, UK, Ireland, Canada, USA, Australia & New Zealand,plus places like Caymans, Bermuda, Bahama,Singapore and on a stretch India.
    the Islamo-sphere: North Africa to Indonesia cutting a swath through the latitudes within. Shia Sunni conflict and racism hampers it.
    the Sino-sphere: China,Koreas,Vietnam,Macau & Taiwan…thing is many nations in the Pacific are very wary of China.
    Russo-Prussian sphere: This is a unique one. You take the neo Soviet resurgence and sprinkle in Germany turning away from Western Europe due to markets such as trade and resources exchanges available with Russia and its former and soon to be again vassals. Scary shit this one.
    There are variations such as the BRICs and the NAM nations some interchangeable with what I’ve listed.

    Just ala carte here. I wasn’t in Vietnam and I’m not a sharer of where and whats my service saw but I tip my hat to James. He reminds me of some family and friends and because of that I think a sharing of views in real life would be informative and fuller than a thread discussion. First toast tonight is to you James…cheers

  197. Its a provable that the hispanic and female vote combined cannot defeat the white guy vote. What I mean by that is that the gender gap is real and is advantage Romney in 2012.
    Obama will have to fight for votes this time in a way he didn’t in ’08. Also not to be sexist,but female voters are fickle and come down on issues differently and with varied passion. Romney will address the economy,education and the economy and that is how he will garner some soccer moms and educated women which = likely voters as opposed to registered voters.

  198. I don’t know about anyone else but Lions spell check works on WordPress and does stuff against my intent.

    For anyone who was as confused as I first was reading this sentence … Lion is the Apple OS. For those who found this obvious and understandable, fine, sue me.

    Interestingly Alfie, Apple’s OS is the Obama way. We know what’s best for you, we’ll make it easy for you, no need for you to look under the covers. Considering your political bent, I’m shocked you’re not on Windows or even better Linux. 😉

  199. The Europeans tells what our own press ignores. One thing on that link which was distracting was the FEMAIL collumn.

  200. Thanks for the toast, alfie. I feel honored. Cheers to you also.
    I like your sphere comments. They seem logical to me.

  201. Ya know you’re actually not the first person shocked that due to my politics I’m an Apple guy. Go figure a Republican who enjoys well made products that meet his needs at a price he’s willing to pay. Tell you what I’ll turn liberal….have Bill and Melinda GIVE me a PC that doesn’t suck and I’ll be an Obama,Warren,Pelosi voting machine!

  202. What’s sad Alfie is its the disenfranchised that are the only thing propping Obama up. The only thing the man can do is campaign and split the vote into camps. Obama has been without doubt the most vicious, destructive person in my lifetime concerning America. There isn’t even anybody close.

    Obama doesn’t give a damn about America or its people. Obama hates America. He always has. Think about how fraudulent this man has becoming. And I mean as fraudulent and mendacious as Poolman.

    He was the uniter. Check. He was going to halve the deficit. Check. He was a critic of a “war machine” which he has now escalated. Check. I could go on and on and on…Obama is synonymous with lies and fraud.

    And even if Romney should win, it is doubtful that half of us can continue to carry the other lying half. From here, it is looking very bleak unless we are really ready to discard ourselves of this trash and the corresponding race pimps.

  203. I’m obviously a Romney fan Tex but there is a very serious part of me that wonders why anyone wants to be the next POTUS and that includes Obama. It isn’t gonna be pretty and if We the People exercise no intelligence on Congressional elections I don’t think the Oval occupant will matter other than he can turn the lights off when we’re done.

  204. I agree Alfie. We need fundamental change and even the President of the United States doesn’t have total authority, though I believe Obama believes with the right manipulation, he could. I have no doubt Obama would have dictatorial qualities left to his own devices. That’s why I was serious when I said it will take more than election to change America.

    We’ve got at a minimum three generations of dead weight, liars, criminals, uber feminists, and race pimps that we need to dispense with. The Left is recalcitrant and frankly most unteachable. In a purer world, the Poolmans of the world would be held both in contempt and accountable for their words and deeds. I honestly believe at the later half of the 18th century, Poolman’s ilk would have been dealt with harshly and possibly banished.

  205. Rutherford, regarding #277.

    You have failed to address the problem.

    Quite a few of us are constantly stepping aside to let the empty barrel roll by. That doesn’t change the fact that the cacophony – with an emphasis on phony – gets tiresome.

    I personally found your lack of appreciation for Tigre’s hilarious cross a bummer! Did you even look at the link to the photo that the insect spy drone captured in pool’s backyard? Two days later and I’m still laughing.

    Rutherford, I say this with all sincerity – I think poolman is your own personal rodeo clown, and your support of his constant preaching and incessant noise is tantamount to tipping him for a job well done.

  206. That is a fair synopsis at 277, Rutherford.

    Don’t listen to Alfie, his light isn’t from within. Besides, he’s one of those Apple nerds, like Jim. Is it still a chooser?

    Enjoyed the Neil Young and the standing ovation from Tigre equally – if that means anything.

    Tex is back to his old self. Life is good in the Bible belt.

    Rabbit, I like bush too. But why aren’t those Iraqi Americans heading back home to celebrate? Democracy has landed. Capitalism thrives! Woohoo!

    James, we’re either the arrow or the bow, as you already know.

    Meatloaf’s done. Time to start potatoes. 😀

  207. Re. post 1, I have some fist hand experience of Irish illegals here in California. The first building I moved into had a high immigrant population, mostly UK and Irish, and I lost count of the times that someone would approach me in the elevator asking, usually in an Irish accent, if I needed “help with [my] papers” because they could “help out”. To say I was surprised would be an understatement!

    As for the main topic of the blog, I agree with the idea that every country should be entitled to protect it’s borders and yes, steps need to be taken to ensure that people in this country illegally are removed (as you say, with a tip of the hat to human dignity) but I disagree with your comments re. Romney. He does have a problem with the Hispanic community as a whole and not just the illegal population. He has a problem because he’s on record as saying that laws, such as the one in Arizona, should be a model for the rest of the country – and that’s upset the community as a whole. Speaking to legal Hispanic immigrants here, they feel that laws like these treat everyone of Hispanic origin as criminals (or potential criminals) with little or no proof. They feel they’re being profiled despite being law abiding, tax paying citizens (or legal residents). While Romney is perceived to support laws like these he has a problem with Hispanics – period. Legal or illegal doesn’t come into it.

  208. Alfie,

    Let me as the Bible Thumper explain, being life good in the Bible belt. Poolman theorizes himself, imagines himself, envisions himself, even magnifies himself as some modern day John the Baptist. Now I don’t doubt the honey and locust “drone” diet. However, Poolman’s measure of the world is himself – an unquestionably low bar to say the least.

    Since you don’t follow the dogma of Poolman, therefore your “light within”, your relationship with the Almighty, the one Poolman (cough cough) has direct relationship (cough cough), is guided by something other than righteousness and light.

    Can you imagine for one moment the degree of delusion from a man who sees subliminal 9/11 messages in Simpson Cartoons and has insect drones visiting his own backyard, as having the unmitigated gall to refer to Muffy, a person virtually all of us find one of the more sane here, as “cock-a-doddle-do?” Crazy, hey?

    I don’t think it would require Sigmund Freud to diagnose something askew in Poolman’s mind. This is a man that finds Fat Grannies wholesome, educational and genuine.

  209. Speaking to legal Hispanic immigrants here, they feel that laws like these treat everyone of Hispanic origin as criminals (or potential criminals) with little or no proof.

    Possibly, but you mistakenly assume legal Hispanics of California represent the entire nation. This is as incorrect as assuming La Raza is representative of all Latinos.

    I can assure you in Texas, you would get a very opposing response from most Hispanics, and most legal immigrants would adamantly insist that illegal immigrants go through the same channels as they had to.

    That’s the problem with you Yankees. You settle in the same basic enclaves of the United States, generally large urban centers, and falsely assume that is fair representation of the entire U.S. population.

    Frankly, you’re some of the most clueless people about the United States on earth, PC.

  210. Oh Tex, I do enjoy your somewhat pointless rants…I’d probably take you a little more seriously (only a little) if you could decide if I was a “Eurowienie” or a “Yankee”. I may even take you a bit more seriously if you didn’t rail against my use of the Hispanics in Cali only to then go and commit the same error (by your measure) in using Texan Hispanics to “disprove” my point. Sorry Tex but if I can’t use Hispanics in Cali to make a point you can’t use Hispanics in Texas – it’s only fair. Lastly, I may even take you seriously if you weren’t such an enormous hypocrite: you claim to be Christian, you quote the bible and yet you show about as many Christian values in your postings as an Ayatollah. You, swear, you name call people, you name call other countries (even other continents), you claim you want to see people dead (Bill Maher) and you attempt to bully anyone who doesn’t agree with you. Not very Christian really, I wonder what your Church would say about that?

    The unfortunate thing is that you’re the poster boy for everything that the rest of the world despises about America and it’s left to people like me to reassure them that you’re a small but vociferous minority. So, as you appear to be a pretty un-Christian disgrace to your nation how about we just agree not to argue eh? That way I won’t annoy you and you won’t constantly remind me that evolution is an imprecise science.

  211. What a devastating retort. 😆 Good. Good. You didn’t honestly believe I was here to convert you, did you Limey?

    Well, PC (appropriate name), you have not only interpreted the meaning of my last post incorrectly, you have falsely assumed I put value in your opinions or am the least bit concerned what you might think of me. However, the inanity of your posts and the predictable European lameness might have thrust me toward a more favorable position that indeed Limeys are direct descendants of apes. It is possible you troglodytes have even devolved back into Long Shank form, and recognizing Dhimmitude is going to get your head sawed off, are looking for safer haven from the William Wallace types.

    Trust me sport, the minute you failed Euro types, who come to America because your willing statist states are falling apart only to want to interject the same abysmal failure on my own, hold me in favorable light, then I’ll question my own motives. Frankly, I’ve found most of your own posts such rank mendacity, I can’t call you hypocrite in return because you’ve never revealed a truthful enough side to call you hypocrite to begin with. Garden variety propagandist, cowardly UN blue helmet and congenital liar.

    Not only that, like so many other hedonistic Yankees, your premise of the importance of religion is what “my church might think.” What my church might “think” isn’t important. Now you can add that to my “hypocrisy” and go back to listening to your Rowan William Dhimmitude sermons.

    However, back to my original example, I’m not trying to trump Texas with California, dummy – only to show that California is not entirely representative of Hispanics – in fact, since California is truly the cesspool of all of America and where a rotten, imported egg like you would belong, I was simply pointing out your assumed position is not even likely a predominant position of most LEGAL Hispanics.

    I could have picked Florida, Louisiana, Oklahoma, New Mexico or a host of other states as example to demonstrate once again you have no idea what you speak and the sooner you move back to Sharia, the better. 😉

  212. Tex is just showing his hospitality, redneck style. Don’t take it too personal. Give him time to develop a real of hatred.

    CISPA passed the house. Protests ensue. Since this one targets individuals and not Google or Verizon, there may be less organized opposition to the jackboots putting this through. Democracy, my ass.

    For some reason I thought it was required to question government and hold them accountable. I wonder where I got that notion…

  213. if Romney is as good in campaigning in the national election as he has been in the Republican electoral

    Once again, your analysis is laughable. First, Romney competed in the primary season against a bunch of nutjobs and losers. Second, without the money of his superpac and the Dresden style bombing of negative campaign ads, outcomes might have been a bit different, particularly where Rick Santorum is concerned. Third, Pawlenty dropped out way too soon. He was too preoccupied with campaign debt (and probably didn’t want the job badly enough). If Pawlenty had hung in there, things might have been different.

    So your claim that Romney ran an excellent effective primary campaign is a joke.

    Romney has said, and I paraphrase, “Obama is a good guy in over his head.” If he sticks to that approach, he will not savage Obama in the debates. He is no Newt Gingrich (and in fact, I think if push had ever come to shove, Newt Gingrich would have turned out to be no Newt Gingrich).

    What you also fail to understand is that the undecided in this country don’t have your deep-seated hatred for this President. If Romney goes over the line in a debate, he will lose independents, not gain them.

    Debate or no debate, the election will be a squeaker. The only caveat will be things beyond Obama’s control like a complete collapse of the European economy, an attack on Iran by Israel, etc. etc. These external factors and their impact on our economy or policies could be Obama’s final undoing. Time will tell.

  214. LOL Alfie the dilemma is truly horrifying. You’re right … for the most part Windows does suck in many ways. BUT for reasons that escape me, Apple refuses to go after the business market. If you want to run a business, a MAC just doesn’t cut it. This problem extends to their iPhone also which is really not enterprise ready. My wife can load her company platform to her Android … and could do so on her Blackberry also. iPhone? Not a chance.

  215. Regarding 287, it’s amusing to watch the reasonable Alfie talking to loony tunes Tex. Tex, your rhetoric is so over the top you are next to impossible to take seriously. And sadly there are others on this board who echo your melodrama. Sometimes I feel like I’m running an asylum here … only trouble is the virtual nature of the place prevents me from giving you your meds. 🙂

  216. I personally found your lack of appreciation for Tigre’s hilarious cross a bummer! Did you even look at the link to the photo that the insect spy drone captured in pool’s backyard? Two days later and I’m still laughing.

    I’m not sure what you mean by the “cross”. I must have simply overlooked that one (I’ve gone through a good sixty comments this weekend alone). As for the backyard photo … was that the one with the bare-assed guy? Yeah that was mildly amusing. To each his own.

  217. I think poolman is your own personal rodeo clown, and your support of his constant preaching and incessant noise is tantamount to tipping him for a job well done.

    I’m not sure it’s fair to say I constantly support him. But I do have a soft spot in my heart for folks who question what they are told. Perhaps because I have a huge gullible streak in me. Some of Poolman’s pronouncements simply remind me to be a bit more skeptical of “the official story”.

    As I’ve always said, history = his story. Folks who point to history as fact are fooling themselves. History is told with the bias of the author built in. It needs to be viewed with a critical mind, and from various angles.

  218. Meatloaf’s done. Time to start potatoes

    Damn do I need to get my head out of pop culture! I swear for a split second I thought Poolman was saying Meat Loaf had died.

  219. I could have picked Florida, Louisiana, Oklahoma, New Mexico

    Tex, how about AZ? You think the Hispanics in AZ love Romney or the law that makes each of them guilty of “driving while Hispanic”? It’s easy to get on one’s high horse from a state not effected by the legislation. Most folks can’t see past their own nose, no sense of empathy at all. Believe me, Hispanics in AZ, where it counts, have no love loss for Romney or Brewer’s law.

  220. PC, a question for you, for which you might have a unique perspective compared to others on the board. On MSNBC this morning (shut up El Tigre), there was a discussion that revolved around Britain’s austerity program being a live controlled experiment for the United States … and that their austerity initiatives have failed, with Britain falling into a second recession. Hence a warning to the US to not go down the same road.

    Since I know you’re a conservative by British standards, would you say Cameron’s approach has failed or is he being blamed unfairly?

  221. Tex opined:
    “Alfie, to be absolutely truthful what Rutherford sanctions is legalized theft, defeatism, cowardice, and long term, abject poverty – though I have absolutely no doubt at this moment Rutherford does not recognize it as much, and might even find it charitable. I don’t believe blind men like Rutherford intend to be evil – but their aspirations and desires for their type of leadership and government certainly lend itself to evil and its imminent conclusion of destruction. Nothing could be clearer than this country is on the road to destruction if we choose the same path we chose four years ago. And no Rutherford, I am not being melodramatic. Our country is sinking under the weight of debt.”

    Damn, Boy. Did you send one of The Poolman’s robots to read my mind?

    People on the Left love to poke fun at Atlas Shrugged, but there have never been better descriptions of where the socialist model leads. Every member of Congress should by law be required to read it and do a book report on it every quarter.

  222. Rutherford, speaking of looney tunes, and yes Muffy was pinpoint in her accuracy as you do give a wink and a nod to every Poolman post, failing to recognize this casts you in a horrible light with a tinge of American hatred yourself, I find it amusing you are still working under the assumption that Obama is some Superman, noble knight in shining armor, and “smart.” Like I told the room last week. You’ve become a secondary lackey on your own blog, cheering every moronic liberal comment, no matter how ludicrous. The serious blogger has become 2nd string cheerleader and pimp.

    Let’s consider what the President Food Stamp and his campaign have done the last couple of months alone. Hilary Rosen ring any bells? Of course, 48 hours later, when it became apparent one of Obama’s toadies had stepped in it (it takes that long for you clowns to “poll” to see the results because you have no convictions besides self), Dumbo comes out menacing as some scolding fraud. Sandra Fluke has suddenly gone under cover, as has the scam of “War on Women.”

    Obama’s veiled threat to the Supreme Court went over like a lead balloon even in leftist circles. Kiss Obamacare goodbye on Constitutional grounds – it would have been revoked anyway.

    “If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon™.” Obama has been mocked for three weeks over that clear pandering.

    Obama’s message of Hope & Change you yourself praised 42 months ago as you fawned and gasped at the charlatan’s greatness has become Fear & Division. What’s his campaign slogan now? Are you With Us?, accompanied by the onion-booty, entitled angry black woman parodied under Michelle Antoinette. Woohoo!

    Obama then opens the war room to JayZ and Beyonce, which leaves even leftists scratching their heads. We discover this week, contrary to what we’ve been led to believe with Commander Obama on white horse leading the charge, he was an observer with Hillary Clinton while an Admiral called the shots concerning the killing of UBL – held in reserve to be thrown to the winds should anything have gone wrong.

    David Axelrod bumbles through a FOX interview when asked a simple question? Why hasn’t the Obama regime with Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi been able to construct even a budget in over a 1,000 days and looks the fool.

    The bottom line is, Obama has failed in virtually every capacity. And the only time you have disagreed with conspiratoid freak Poolman, it was when Poolman questioned whether UBL had died some ignominious death in a cave.

    And you want to criticize Romney’s primary. Pfffttt…Ain’t working anymore, champ.

  223. poolman@249

    I see where you are coming from, but point of war – our most shameful human institution – is dominance, and that is accomplished by killing the enemy and breaking his stuff. Of course the enemy loves his children as well as we do ours and their loss is no less important.

  224. One thing I can’t put my finger on, Pfesser.

    Oh, I know I’m over the top with Rutherford and this Politically Correct type on purpose to provide some amusement to humorless libs. I’ll take the hit for using them as fodder and Poolman is simply a bullseye for personal amusement.

    But why in the world would they support what is clearly a path to destruction, which will include themselves and their children? Nary a peep from the Rutherford’s of the world when it is a clear fact every man, woman and child in this country is over $200K in debt with unfunded entitlements are taken into account thanks to our last 70 years of big government. I can only surmise Rutherford is independently wealthy and has $600K stashed for payback. 😐

  225. James opined:

    “You know why so many soldiers are killing themselves. We over used them and sent their minds to dark places. We say we honor our veterans, but they are disposable tools. If they served their purpose good for them. We are raising plenty of replacements for our later wars.”

    Right on the money. We puff them up and make them think we care by means of our rituals over their dead bodies, but we show how we REALLY feel by sending them back over and over so we don’t have to have a draft and alienate the voters. Lip service is all it is. Fucking politicians and the fucking voters who put them back in office, over and over.

    Care about the troops? Vote the bastards out who are killing them.

  226. Tex –

    First, I would have probably been more charitable to R than you were, but regardless of good intentions or ill, the effects of a socialist state are the same – and the damnably frustrating thing is that we have seen this played out time and time-again, from East Germany, to the Balkans to Cuba.

    To answer your question, I don’t think people want to face the deficit. The economy is doing OK right now and they just hope it all works out. To be perfectly honest, so do I, because I don’t really know what can be done if it does not.

    I still own 65 acres in WV, mostly woodland, but enough bottom land to put out a massive garden. My wife is convinced that if we stay in this country we should prepare that land as a “compound” so that we can gather our children and the old folks around us and try to become self-sufficient, like my parents were in the Depression. Hope that’s not too melodramatic, but I really do not know what the future holds.

  227. Ukrainians understand the “path to destruction.” They’ve been there. So many Ukrainians work outside of the economy to maintain a middle- class life the government isn’t sure of how much they actually earn. It is common for up to four generations to live in the same house. Numerous Ukrainians moonlight as cab drivers with the family car. A joke begins with “how many Ukrainians will fit in a Ford?” That could be our future.

    Aol.Original “One Immigrant’s By-the-Numbers Path to the American Dream” cites Spfiya Cherni who moved with her family to Rapid City in 1997. She and her sister won scholarships to private schools, and their parents later insisted that they pay for college.. She lived at home and kept her part-time job. In 14 years Sofiya has earned a college degree, found a job in her field, bought, paid for, and sold her first home.

    Now, at 28, she works in Washington DC. She sold her previously nearly paid for house, used the proceeds for the down payment, and assumed a $125,000 mortgage for her new home. Sofiya took in two room mates and she expects to pay the mortgage in less than five years.

    “A lot of people say having money doesn’t make you happy, but I think money is a big part of happiness: It’s security, it’s future planning for the family, it relieves a lot of stress.” She said the American dream is still alive for one who sacrifices and stays out of debt.

    Many Ukrainians are moving to Canada’s prairie provences and Alaska for similar opportunities. We need more Hispanics, Irish and other nationalities with the same drive and perseverance. They are the anti-parasitism of Obama liberals, and they are natural Republicans when they have the information to compare both parties.

  228. Pfessor, human nature is the same from generation to generation isn’t it?

    On immigration:

    “The Stranger within my gate
    He may be true or kind,
    But he does not talk my talk–
    I cannot feel his mind.
    I see the face and the eyes and the mouth,
    But not the soul behind.

    The men of my own stock,
    They may do ill or well,
    But they tell the lies I am wanted to,
    They are used to the lies I tell,
    And we do not need interpreters
    When we go to buy or sell.”

    “The Stranger” by Rubyard Kipling

    “You talk o’ better food for us, an’ schools, and fires an’ all
    We’ll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational
    Don’t mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
    The Widow’s Uniform is not the soldier-man’s disgrace.
    For its Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ ‘Chuck him out the brute!’.
    But its savior of ‘is country, when the guns begin to shoot.
    An’ it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, and anything you please,
    An’ Tommy ain’t a bloomin’ fool–you bet that Tommy sees!”

    “Tommy” by Rubyard Kipling

  229. Tommy’s my oldest brother’s favorite poem. I went to the same grade school and high school as my bro and they were very big on memorizing poetry. I just accepted it as part of the curriculum at the time, but I can’t begin to tell you how much pleasure it has brought me over the years. Kipling was one of my fav’s and in high scool I memorized the entirety of “Gunga Din” for extra credit.

    Good memories…

  230. Pfesser, I’m not as charitable with Rutherford as you probably are. That is true. I’ve got more history with Rutherford than anyone here. This is more than you wanted to know, but I’ll try to explain for perspective’s sake and being that there are a few new posters here.

    I’ll tell you why I have a tough time being charitable with most liberals anymore – dishonest propaganda, as a general rule I find them completely self-absorbed and unteachable, and what I generally consider a complete lack of character and judgment accompanied by selective outrage and selective moral application. Is that too harsh? Maybe. But it is my perceived truth.

    I don’t necessarily question Rutherford’s character (though his unfiltered radio show has changed my opinion to a degree). I do question Rutherford’s judgment, and I do find his double standards and inconsistency with respect to the two parties interferes with my ability to restrain myself to appear more serious than a food fight.

    If I really thought my argument could change minds, my approach would be more serious, my narrative more professional, my debate more structured. But I have always looked at this blog as the neighborhood pub since its inception and seldom have diverted from being a class clown and turd in my approach. I’m not that way on every blog, which I can prove.

    Give you an example of why I cannot be more serious. Four years ago, when I first met Rutherford, one of the hot topics was “torture”, more specifically Bush and Cheney were referred to on another blog as “war criminals” for allowing waterboarding. Now each of us are entitled to our opinions. I don’t find waterboarding torture – torture is the Bataan Death March; pulling fingernails; hobbling; a method that leaves a lasting ailment. However, fair people can disagree with my opinion.

    However, four years have now passed. And the interrogator of Khalid Sheik Mohammed made this point last night which I have also voiced. What is more inhumane? Waterboarding, or the acceptance and approval of drone strikes? Drone strikes without trial, mind you.

    Now I will admit these radical Islamist thugs have few limits with me. You are party to killing 3,000 civilians, or an Imam who markets in civilian death in America in the name of Allah, in my judgment you have forfeited your right to exist. I’m not a critic of Obama’s approach to terrorism, contrary to many Conservatives who in my opinion are being very selective critics in their own right.

    But where is the moral outrage now from the Left? Where are the Rutherford’s of the world calling for Obama to be dragged in front of the Hague?

    And that is but one example. I could provided a dozen issues where selective judgment and selective moral outrage is applied by the liberals on this board on a weekly basis. How about GITMO?

    I will say this in defense of my loose relationship of friend and foe with Rutherford, while I hold most other liberals in contempt. Of all the blogs I’ve visited, I give Rutherford sincere kudos for his acceptance of freedom of expression and his willingness to allow little restraint. In that regard, I have found Rutherford very unique as a blogger – right or left. And it is why I always find myself drifting back here. That and so many of the players here are such characters.

  231. re: drone strikes

    We have always killed at a distance (artillery, missiles, aerial bombing). Yes, the fellow who looses a Hellfire missile from a Predator is sitting in an office in Kansas and goes home to play with his children. Good. As the old saw goes, if you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck. We have also always done selective killing – snipers have been around for a long time and don’t always kill soldiers, so I don’t have a problem there. The big issue is the one we never deal with: killing another human that has a family, friends and loved ones. We just blow past that one and focus on whether you “killed him right.” Doesn’t make a tinker’s damn if you killed him right IMHO.

  232. We had to memorize those poems too. I hated it at the time.

    I like Rutherford and the other liberals here too. However, are their memories so short they cannot distinguish between promises and outcomes?

    Obama has lied once again about health insurance. 12 million seniors use Medicare Advantage under which the government pays private insurers to provide more coverage than standard Medicare.

    The administration took money from Medicare Advantage to help pay for Obamacare. The cuts were scheduled to begin in 2013, but the administration knows old people would be angry if they were forced into less comprehensive Medicare. Therefore, they are using $8 billion to finance Medicare Advantage as a pilot study until a year after the election.

    The FDA is proposing that some prescription drugs such as medication for high blood pressure be sold over the counter to save money. Fewer doctors’ visits would be required, and patients would pay full price for their medication.

    Given just these two developments, I wonder “What’s the Matter With Kansas?” as it applies to liberals. Don’t they care about old poor people?

    Who would you vote for today, Rutherford? Why?

  233. B52 pilots I knew dropped bombs from miles in the sky. They were too far away to really see the carnage and dead bodies they created. It was impersonal. Impersonal murder robs us of some of our humanity, though it is effective.

    A US soldier rummaged though the pockets of a Viet Cong soldier he had just killed. The man had letters from home, pictures of his parents and wife or girl friend–just as the soldier did.

    You may remember the WW1 story when German and then British soldiers in the trenches began singing Christmas carols. They called a truce, decorated a Christmas tree and exchanged gifts. They played soccer, and when officers visited, they pretended to shoot at each other as they aimed wide.Their officers eventually transferred their soldiers to keep the contagion from spreading.

  234. Yeah, James, I remember that story. We can’t have peace spreading around like some kind of disease, can we? If we realized most of the world wants the same things, it might make us sympathetic or compassionate – weaknesses, we are told.

    Once we carried a big stick. Now we use it to beat others.

    The drone strikes in Pakistan over the past 7 years, a country in which we (or NATO) have NOT declared war on, have killed an estimated 3,000 people. Of those, 170 were identified as militants.

    These odds really suck. If the “shoe” was on the other foot, I don’t think we’d accept it. And, how do you identify dead militants, anyway? Do they have a gun in their possession? Were they defending their home or homeland? Think how many “militants” might be loose here, if that is the criteria.

  235. Yes, Pfessor, I guess I do sound like Ron Paul sometimes. The difference is I think we need to kill enemies attacking us before they kill us, but we should feel bad about it.

    Poolman, I am volunteer observer for the National Weather Service. An early snowfall had mostly melted but a four mile wide band of snow remained several miles north of us. I reported it to the Weather service office a hundred miles away and joked that I wished we still had enough snow for cross- country skiing.

    The meteorologist replied “Check your south lane. It still has a pretty big patch of snow near it.” I carried my skies down there. That was ten years ago. They could probably look inside my rain gauge today.

  236. The GOP slogan this year — Obama hasn’t cleaned up our mess fast enough.

    This is what passes for profundity in lib circles, like Yes We Can! and “WE ARE THE GENERATION WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR!”. Not hearing those anymore, are we.

    Obama took the messes from a majority Dimocratic Congress, and you’ll note things started going south about time the American public put these shit-for-brains back in power in 2006, and cleaned the messes up by burning the house down and bragging about by picking his gigantic turd up by the clean end.

    Robert Gibbs was so bad, Obama fired him. What are you quoting that bespectacled douchebag for, Rutherford? 😆 I sense a tinge of desperation and sadness for a better day. Why don’t you recall some of those hope filled fireside chats from Winter 2009 to soothe the sting?

    Death to America is the Obama campaign slogan for 2012.

  237. James, usually by the time the public “knows” something, the PTB are years ahead of that. It is just is the world we live in. The biggest trend right now is disguising one’s face so face recognition software doesn’t “see” it as a face. It gives software folks more challenges to overcome, thereby ensuring job security. We can create jobs, alright. But how productive are we really? [rhetorical]

    As to the “need to kill enemies attacking us before they kill us”, you and me and Ron Paul ARE on the same page. But that isn’t the same as the Bush doctrine we are still following and actually have ramped up, giving NATO the control of the reins over our military forces.

  238. For Rutherford, we’ll leave him the comic books. For everyone else with half a brain, let me give you once again the best man on earth to expose the absolute joke and disaster this current administration is. Gawd, I wish I were as talented as this man:

    The New Reactionaries – by Victor Davis Hanson

    The New Old Chicago

    Barack Obama is trying to turn back the way of politics to the era of the pre-reform Chicago machine. He was the first presidential candidate to renounce campaign-financing funds since the law was enacted. He opposes any effort to clamp down on voting fraud. Even his compliant media worries that the president’s current jetting from one campaign stop to another in the key swing states is a poorly disguised way to politick on the federal government’s dime. Bundlers are, as was the ancient custom, given plum honorific posts abroad. Obama has held twice as many fundraisers as the much reviled George Bush had at a similar point in his administration. Obama supporters now target large Romney givers and post their names with negative bios on websites, as if we are back to Nixon’s enemies of the people. Websites sprout up that go after administration critics in Agnew style, but without the latter’s self-caricature. The 2008 criticism about ending the revolving door, lobbyists, and pay-for-play renting out of the Lincoln bedroom was, well…just examine the career of a Peter Orszag. An embarrassed media keeps silent about the new reactionary ethics, apparently on the premise that not to would endanger four more years of the “progressive” agenda. On matters of presidential style, we are likewise retro, as Obama sets records for playing golf, and in Marie Antoinette style the First Family bounces between Vail, Aspen, Martha’s Vineyard, Vegas, and Costa del Sol, often in separate jets, as if we, the people, receive vicarious joy from catching glimpses of the Obama versions of Camelot. We have Kennedy wannabes without their own Kennedy money…

    http://pjmedia.com/victordavishanson/the-new-reactionaries/

  239. You’ve become a secondary lackey on your own blog, cheering every moronic liberal comment,

    You realize this actually makes no sense. The threads begin with an article …. written by me. No articles, no blog, no threads. So I suppose I don’t understand my secondary standing. 😉

    Furthermore, why would I not cheer my liberal commenters? I’m a liberal. 99% of the time, they say stuff I agree with. Did it ever occur to you that they are MY lackeys? (No offense to my lefty friends … just trying to make a point with the Imperial Majesty of Illogic.)

    You, my friend are confusing the horse with the cart, the dog with the tail, etc. etc. The fact that I am a benign custodian of this space perhaps makes you forget that I do run the joint.

    For a man of such pronounced opinions and ego, you need your own blog, your own platform. Understand that the articles always come first. There is a subset that never comments and never reads the comments. They just read the articles and hence they never get exposure to the brilliant political analysis offered by Tex Taylor.

    C’mon man do it!!!! God knows you’ve got the time. I’ve even got a title for you — “Taylor-Made Politics”. I’ll be one of your first subscribers! 😉

  240. BTW Tex, keep minimizing Obama’s role with Osama. Only you and your delusional friends are buying it. Everyone else is laughing at you with a dose of pity thrown in at your desperation.

  241. we should prepare that land as a “compound” so that we can gather our children and the old folks around us

    Hey PF, once you add your beloved firearms to that equation, methinks you are turning into a David Koresh. 😉

  242. Just spent the weekend in the land of the Latte. Too much here, but I will say, ET’s 58 answers the question about where the insect drone went. Fell through the crack(s). 😉

  243. Saying Obama got Osama is like saying Richard Nixon got us to the moon.

    That may sell in la la land circles and Fat Grannies digs, but most of us recognize Elmer Fudd would have given the command to kill Osama. Won’t get him a single vote President Food Stamp doesn’t already have – the parasites, the leeches, the deviants, the OWS folks, the food stamps, the down-and-outs, and the delusional.

    Obama stood around, holding an Admiral hostage so he would have an out in case it went to hell in a hand basket. All the aware folk realize Obama a corrupt politician and community activist.

    Is that all you got for El Bongo? And you think that’s going to win the election, hey? That and the – what was it? Lilly Ledbetter act, even if Obama’s women are making 18% less than the men on staff? What happened to Lilly? 😀

    Secondary comments, secondary comments old friend. PC, Thor, Flake, Gypsy, or Poolman rip a fart or praise the Chicago regime, and you stand up and masturbate like Pavlov’s dawg. 😉

  244. “Hey PF, once you add your beloved firearms to that equation, methinks you are turning into a David Koresh.

    No, just trying to maximize efficiency so that everybody can eat and can survive. I really hope it does not come to that. And unlike Koresh, I don’t preach much.

    Beloved firearms? Hardly. It’s just a tool – like my tractor or my hoe or shovel. And a tool of which I am not frightened – and which, like my tractor or hoe or shovel – just might be the difference between living and dying for me or those I love.

  245. Re. Post 311. It a really interesting situation in the UK right now and quite a worrying one. In the cases of both the US and the UK I don’t believe you can expect a revived economy in 3-4 years when it took 8 years or more to drive it into a ditch. People have very short term memories and even shorter patience. However, having said that, in the UK’s case it’s hard to see how the path they’ve chosen is going to work out for them. I completely see why they chose the path they did (I was in complete agreement) but I think the trouble surrounding Europe as a whole has had a far greater impact than the current government foresaw. The UK is insulated, to an extent, from the craziness of the euro-zone but it’s still bound to the fate of the European economy in many other ways…and it’s suffering because of that. In all honesty, I don’t know what the answer is right now.

    Whether the UK’s austerity measures had worked or not, using them as a blueprint for the US would have been nonsensical. The economies are different and were driven into their respective ditches in different ways (although there were overlaps…e.g. two unpaid for and pointless wars). The US is an economic super power and a completely different beast to the UK so trying to treat them with the same medicine would be, IMO, like trying to cure two different species of animal, with different diseases, with the same medicine. Unlikely to work.

  246. Just realized I’ve turned into a politician and didn’t answer the last question in 311.

    Yes I think Cameron is being treated slightly unfairly because he was handed a poisoned chalice which which he’s done as much as he can. He’s been the victim of circumstance to a degree with the UK’s nearest economic partners being in complete disarray and that hasn’t helped at all.

    As for the austerity program itself – yes, so far it’s failed. It would take a very blinkered person to think otherwise. Whether or not they can mould this approach into something that may work is another matter. I still believe that spending their way out of trouble isn’t the solution for the UK…Blair and Brown did that for over a decade and the result wasn’t pretty.

  247. Hey Political Capital, I’ll bet your a big fan of Ken ‘Red’ Livingstone, aren’t you? Come on, pipsqueak, be truthful now.

    Did you ever reside in Londonistan? 🙂

  248. Political Capital –

    The problem is that we have all painted ourselves in a corner with our debt – basically forced on us by lax monetary policies. (As one farmer put it, if your neighbor is taking out a loan for a $300K combine, you have to do it,too, or you will be at a competetive disadvantage.)

    My reading suggests that best, least painful way out is a combination of about 60% govt spending cuts and about 40% tax increase. I sure as hell don’t want a tax increase, but I have children and grandchildren to think about. The problem for me is that I absolutely do not trust the politicians to do anything but continue to buy votes with the people’s money. I do NOT trust them to do the right thing.

    Thoughts?

  249. Pfesser,

    The problem with any tax increase is that it won’t be appropriated to the elimination of the deficit. It never is. And it’s a historical fact that any increase to capital gains actually reduces revenue because people will simply defer and quit investing, limiting venture capital for starters.

    I suggest a 15-20% cut across the board on everything – including the military, complete elimination of numerous depts including but not limited to Dept of ED, Dept. of Energy, Dept. of HUD, Dept. of Homeland Security, and a five percent cut to Social Security, with Medicare means tested.

    I want every person drawing Obama stamps means tested – every damn one of them by an outside source. In addition, they are to be monthly drug tested and we will find them work. They can pick up trash, serve at school lines, or clean stables – no frickin’ freeloaders and bad behavior will now be punished. You don’t work, you don’t eat. Obviously, this would not apply to the disabled (Medicaid).

    Or if it makes facilitation easier, an inflation adjustment return of the federal budget to 1995 levels. No exceptions.

    Our administrative government is at least twice as big as it needs to be. I’m completely convinced of that. In addition, I demand an outside auditing firm like Ernst & Young make the necessary recommendations for elimination – not the politicians.

    There isn’t a politician serving that has the balls to do what needs to be done at present. And there isn’t a lib alive that has the balls to do it either – the only way they win is to buy votes.

  250. Um Rutherford,

    Please set this to memory about the raving GM successes saved by your Dear Leader…

    General Motors, in particular, paid less than zero taxes of 2011. And when the Administration brags that GM reported a $7.6 billion profit in 2011, conservatives are quick to note the profits include roughly $100 million in the form of a tax benefit document in GM’s annual report (p. 51) — and, thus, massive untaxed profits.

    The outcome: GM paid a negative tax rate, around -1.5%, because of a decision allowing some of the bailout recipients, GM, AIG, and Citi, to avoid actual losses, but to still claim those losses for tax purposes.

    The Administration defend the move after what was, after all, an undisguised bailout aimed at getting a giant employer back on its feet. Conservatives point to it as a sign of picking favorites: GM, the favored child, pays negative taxes and wins praise for its profits; GE get blasted for paying low taxes on large profits.

    You going to defend the no lose situation at taxpayer expense some more Rutherford Buffett? 😐

  251. Who would you vote for today, Rutherford? Why?

    1. I see the economy slowly coming back.
    2. I see a timetable for getting out of Afghanistan.
    3. If the Supremes decide not to legislate from the bench, I see a health insurance system where no one will be turned away for pre-existing conditions.
    4. I see a collaborative (vs cowboy) foreign policy.

    For those four reasons alone, I will be voting for Obama. I can’t say what I see under Mitt Romney because he has not specifically told us. With the primary over, the Etch-a-Sketch has been shaken and he will veer more moderate. If elected, the Etch-a-Sketch will be shaken once again and then who knows what will go down.

    Mitt Romney strikes me as a decent fellow who once elected will have someone’s hand up his ass making the puppet do his bidding. I don’t know who that “someone” is and that alone is scary.

  252. There isn’t a politician serving that has the balls to do what needs to be done at present.

    Ron Paul is saying what you’re saying. I don’t know if he can actually do anything, but he is consistently telling the same thing.

    Problem is, every time one does get where they begin to repair things, he gets assassinated. Most, if truly good, will fall in line and try to work around the beast. Others are there for the kill.

    Can’t you see the big money printers/dealers/lenders/collectors are there lining the pockets of the whores we put up in fancy buildings with all the perks and also control this entire bitch that keeps treating us like the fleas and tics it thinks we are.

    Why do we keep bending over and letting them run amok?

  253. This is what passes for profundity in lib circles, like …

    LOL Tex enjoyed this comment so much he posted it in two different threads.

    Tex, I was going to offer to move your comment from the old thread to this one but you saved me the trouble. Thanks pal! 🙂

  254. I agree with 344, Political Capital. European and American countries are caught in a trap. They can’t permanently spend their way to prosperity, and if they cut expenses too severely and suddenly, the economy will sicken. As weaker European countries demonstrate, austerity removes support from the dependent population of the economy. Economic shrinkage is painful and leads to civil unrest.

    Something like Tex’s or Pfessor’s solution may be our best course, but it could lead to street riots. Such a reduction would be as cruel, as going off heroin cold turkey. It might be all that saves us. I agree, no politician has the courage to try it. If one did, he/she would lose the next election.

    Every route to recovery will be painful in my opinion, and the longer we wait, the worse it will be.

    The farmer is right. One must compete with the neighbors for land to rent. Machinery reliable and large enough to care for the crops in a timely fashion improves a farm’s competitiveness.

    348 is one of my favorite posts today, muffymcd.

    The Coors are one of my favorite Irish exports.

    Tex didn’t asked Political Capital, but since I lived near there, here is my opinion of London. it was one of my favorite cities.

    One night, we walked back to our hotel because it was after midnight and no cabs were around. We got lost and wandered into a Pakistani section. Gangs of young men walked along the sidewalks. We walked down the middle of the street and didn’t make eye contact.

    We met a French man who was also lost, and together, we found our way back. We all celebrated with a breakfast at the Kentucky Pancake House at 4AM.

    .

  255. Pfesser,

    😆 You beat me to it. And your answer was better than mine. I was going to say George Soros.

    And I won’t even give the flaccid prick an attaboy of being “a nice guy.”

    I think he’s a jackbooted thug, American hatin’ racist and political expedient coward.

  256. The US is an economic super power and a completely different beast to the UK so trying to treat them with the same medicine would be, IMO, like trying to cure two different species of animal, with different diseases, with the same medicine. Unlikely to work.

    Same beast, same species, different head is all. The same evil root.

  257. You know, I don’t necessarily have a problem with the Bush Doctrine if we just weren’t such pussies about it. IMHO the Bush Doctrine says we should have declared war on Afghanistan, not simply have gone in there with the flaky “war on terror” mantra. If you harbor terrorists who f*ck with us, we will declare war on your country and you will pay a price.

    When’s the last time we actually declared war on a country? WWII?

  258. Tex, I was going to offer to move your comment from the old thread to this one but you saved me the trouble. Thanks pal!

    You betcha. 😉 Twofer – fucks up the blog with redundant bad mouthing of libs so you goons can’t miss it, and gave me two chuckles. Don’t tempt me – it might become a bad habit.

  259. Poolman, what is your idea of good government?

    Abject poverty, radical Islam and anarchy? What are we shooting for?

    The Sudan?

  260. Doesn’t seem an inconsistency to me, R.

    PF you are hardly the typical conservative. In fact, it’s one reason why some of your political opinions really blow me away. You are a pro-abortion atheist so of course you see no inconsistency. But in that, you are virtually alone on this blog, or do I need to remind you of the slings and arrows you’ve received from the likes of Tex and Rabbit?

  261. PC, Thor, Flake, Gypsy, or Poolman rip a fart or praise the Chicago regime, and you stand up and masturbate like Pavlov’s dawg.

    Mmmm I’ve been wondering why I’m so sore “down there”. 🙂

    Tex, the facts laid out by the players themselves state that almost to a man, everyone told Obama NOT to give the order. The fact that he did showed courage despite your protestations otherwise. (And please note a subtlety here. He did NOT order a drone strike on the compound because despite the added risk, he wanted to prove it was actually Osama that we got.) My God man, your refusal to give the man his due is so … wait for it … unpatriotic!!!

  262. “But in that, you are virtually alone on this blog, or do I need to remind you of the slings and arrows you’ve received from the likes of Tex and Rabbit?”

    I know. I feel sorry for them sometimes. Got ’em surrounded.

    BTW, I am not pro-abortion. I am pro-choice. Big, big difference. Actually, I’m a dyslexic agnostic insomniac.

    Keeps me up nights, wondering if there is a Dog. (I know, old as the hills…)

  263. Tex, the facts laid out by the players themselves state that almost to a man, everyone told Obama NOT to give the order.

    OH BULLSHIT! Who told Obama NOT TO give the order? What, a bunch of feckless queers on the Obama staff? So what? They think David Plouffe is a stranglehold – a bunch of Prince Edwards from Braveheart. 😆

    I’ll guarantee you Hillary Rotten Clinton has bigger balls that Obama.

  264. Since I’ve been giving Rutherford and PC a hard time with references to Braveheart, here’s my favorite scene from the entire movie. How best to deal with a queer lib Obama supporter: Starts at about the 2:00 minute mark. I laughed out loud in the movie theater during this scene. I was so ashamed (kind of):

  265. This is bullsh*t. I just wrote a $105.00 check “registration fee” for my daughter’s public school. WTF!!!!!!????? What happened to public school being free? Where the f*ck are my tax dollars going? If I want to pay for her schooling I’ll send her to private school.

    I repeat …. this is bullsh*t!!!!!

  266. Tex … you want to eliminate the dept of homeland security … and risk another 9/11?

    Ernst and Young can’t be bought? Oh my naive friend.

    But I actually do agree with many of your recommendations including “workfare”. I find the drug testing insulting but the requirement to work at jobs that the government will provide is quite a good one. Of course you realize that is another example of BIG GOVERNMENT?

  267. You going to defend the no lose situation at taxpayer expense some more Rutherford Buffett?

    Hey, I’m proud that my tax dollars went toward keeping one of our beloved industries alive and well. That’s why I am a patriot! 🙂

  268. Poolman, that WHENDASHTF on YouTube is a trip. He’s got one post calling Netanyahu and the Pope psychopaths. That same video says Obama is a Communist plant. Then there’s another on UFO sightings.

    I stopped watching the vids cos I don’t have any drugs to go along with them. 🙂

  269. Maybe your school district is paying teachers and administrators than the budget will allow.

    I mentioned the dangers of austerity. Greece is in a bad way. A rightist organization is becoming more popular as it collects and distributes food and clothing to the poor. The Golden Triangle promises to jail all of the politicians and to stop illegal immigration by burying land mines on the borders.

  270. What, a bunch of feckless queers on the Obama staff?

    How ’bout Bob Gates for starters? I’d add Biden to the list but you think he’s a dunce … so how ’bout Bob Gates? A queer?

    I think you may be right on one thing though…. I think Hillary was for the kill. She’d actually make a badass Defense Secretary.

  271. This is bullsh*t. I just wrote a $105.00 check “registration fee” for my daughter’s public school. WTF!!!!!!????? What happened to public school being free? Where the f*ck are my tax dollars going? If I want to pay for her schooling I’ll send her to private school.

    I repeat …. this is bullsh*t!!!!!

    You u libs are running out of other people’s money. Thatcher tried to warn you and you wouldn’t listen. Time draws close for dumpster dippin’. Sorry “R”, I can’t help but laugh at your expense. Look at this way. Either Thor or I will be enrolling your daughter for you in six months.

    That’s such poetic justice that you’re having the screws put to you in Obamatown. 😆 😆 😆 You haven’t seen anything yet.

  272. I never saw proof Robert Gates disagreed with Obama’s call. Got proof of that, Hoss?

    But like I said. Frankly, it is irrelevant. If you’re going to give Obama full credit for the killing of Osama, you got to give Richard Nixon full credit of landing men on the moon.

    That’s how specious this so called campaign ploy is. Worse, now Obama is trying to paint Romney as some pansy ass who would have passed the buck. Then he repeated that same story again today.

    Desperation – your boy is in trouble and they know it. 😈

  273. I hope so.

    I missed your telling us for whom you plan to vote and why. Thanks.

    Don’t tell me we know how Obama made the decision. We only know what they TOLD us.

    Biden said he opposed the killing. Not that it means much, but we only have the staff’s word about how the decision to kill bin ladin was made. If they were lying and kept their stories straight, we would never know. Assuming I was to vote Democratic, I would still vote for Obama in spite of my doubts of the chosen ones’ veracity..

    As you know, experience taught me to distrust authority .

  274. I’m not kidding, I guffawed in BraveHeart when Longshanks tossed that queer out the window. That was classic. My wife acted mortified – I think she secretly giggled too with the rest of the audience. She’s not much for the blood and guts, so she naturally hated the movie. Gladiator and Braveheart – two great manly movies.

    I laughed out loud at the curly haired, limp wristed Prince Edward every time he came on the screen too. That’s what I picture when I read about all these militant, white libs. And Rutherford wants a war?

    Better get a bunch of those brothas out of Florida to compensate for white libbie. Of course, the brothas would be laughing with me at that scene. 😀

  275. Our local economy fell apart during the farm depression. Some of the fallen blamed the bankers. My cousin lost his farm, and he retaliated by sending a hog into the bank lobby. Our bank president told me “they are behaving like cornered rats” after several farmers sued the bank.

    Obama and his minions are behaving the same as people who lost everything when the farm bubble burst.

    “Your boy is in trouble, and they know it…” I recognize the smell of desperation. Cornered animals are nasty because they know what they have to lose.

  276. Wait until schools are totally privatized, Rutherford, instead of partially so. Then you will pay even more as shareholder profit takes priority over teachers and students. And corps will make attendance mandatory, like this HC crap they forced on us. Maybe they’ll guarantee them 20 percent, too.

    Think prison system. The state pays per inmate just as schools get paid per attendee. Hell, just combine them, saves time and manpower. We’ll can go from “no child left behind” to “no child let outside”. Sounds safe.

    Public schools on the whole have only served to indoctrinate us. Sure there are plenty of well-meaning people in the system, but overall the state has their way in what is taught and how. I am constantly talking with teachers that provide their own materials.

    In answer to Tex, probably the least government possible. I tend toward libertarian, anymore.

  277. Poolman, the video doesn’t do Scotland and Ireland justice. You should go. A few days in the Highlands will help you understand why the Scots are so tough. The Romans had to build a wall to protect the edge of their empire from the fearless Picts. .

    Some of my ancestors are from Scotland too, at least for a few generations.

  278. I saw that. Wow!

    A Polish dentist’s boy friend jilted her and stupidly let her fix a tooth . She put him under and removed all of his teeth without telling him.

    Now, she is under investigation for mal- practice and taking unfair advantage of a patient. The man’s new girl friend dumped him because he has no teeth.

  279. the video doesn’t do Scotland and Ireland justice.

    I know it doesn’t James, but I like Billy Connolly and decided it was entertaining. Someday I may go and also revisit England and Germany. My dad’s mom’s family is from Denmark. I’ve never been there, either, though I have been to Holland. Or maybe I would venture to Italy, where my mom’s family is from.

    My mom’s been all these places multiple times and Antarctica, too.

    All I got is pictures and stories. 😀

  280. I was just writing about the scenery.

    Ancestors on both sides of my family came from Denmark with the Vikings. Maybe we are related. We are cousins if you have blue eyes.

    What was your mother doing in Antarctica? Did she like her time there?

  281. Nope. Brown eyes. Strong Italian blood, since my dad had blue eyes. My mom and her husband love to travel and that was one place on his bucket list. They are also nerdy and the group was mostly scientists and educators. They are getting too old anymore to be that adventurous.

  282. I did not mean, Nope they didn’t like their trip, it was nope to the eyes question. They did enjoy their trip, though it was probably one of the most dangerous they’ve been on.

  283. If your father had blue eyes, we are still related. Blue eyed people probably started in Ukraine north of the Black Sea. How long were your parents in Antarctica? I assume they visited in summer. How cold was it? Did they have any frightening adventures? What country did they leave from?

  284. Mail on line “SEALs slam Obama for using them as ‘ammunition’ in bid to take credit for bin Laden killing during election campaign”

    I agree Obama deserves “due credit.” He is so desperate to win the election he takes bows for everything except pulling the trigger while implying he was the only politician with the guts to make the decision.

    As I wrote, I suspected they were lying. Now, we know. Don’t trust authorities. They will let you down.

  285. Oh man, the SEALS have publically called out Obama’s rooster strutting over Osama. They’re saying exactly what I said, any president would have acted on the intel. The backlash is going to be ugly. How Obama can find a way to screw this up is beyond me.

    Tex. That punch would have knocked Bill’s face off. There was an awesome heavyweight fight on HBO this weekend.

  286. James, they loved it. It was a bit treacherous, but very exciting.

    From her notes (my brain doesn’t remember as well as the digital files do):

    They went in November. Flew to Buenos Aires. The next day they flew to Ushiaia, Argentina, to board the ship and were on board for 12 days The weather determines whether they take excursions on shore or not. Because of environmental issues, not more than 100 are allowed on shore at one time. The tour co. is Vantage and the ship is ms Nordnorge.

    She wrote a long letter explaining the entire trip in detail. I won’t bore you with it’s entirity, but here is her summary…

    We all felt very fortunate about the entire adventure. We were in every kind of weather, and some of the strongest wind we’ve ever experienced. (Blew one passenger’s glasses overboard.)

    Saw lots and lots and lots of penguins up close, (gentoos, chinstrap, Adelies, and Magellanic) a few whales and a few seals, lots and lots of seabirds–albatross, cormorants, skuas, etc. Lots of icebergs. And we saw some of the most gorgeous scenery. We all commented that it couldn’t be captured in a photo. It was one of the most exciting trips we’ve ever taken.

  287. Thanks Poolman. You gave me enough to imagine.

    I bet the wind was strong. I think one of the latitudes is called the roaring sixties. Floating around the ice bergs must have been awesome.

    By now, you are probably wishing you never brought this up. In case you haven’t run screaming from the room, here more questions. What did they think of Buenos Aires? How did they like Argentina? Did the penguins stink?

  288. Back to Rabbit’s point, Mr. Rutherford. This slam dunk of Osama that will overwhelmingly win Obama the election? The guttiest call since D-Day (snort). You were saying what brilliant strategy this was again?

    SEALs slam Obama for using them as ‘ammunition’ in bid to take credit for bin Laden killing during election campaign

    Ryan Zinke, a former Commander in the US Navy who spent 23 years as a SEAL and led a SEAL Team 6 assault unit, said: ‘The decision was a no brainer. I applaud him for making it but I would not overly pat myself on the back for making the right call.

    ‘I think every president would have done the same. He is justified in saying it was his decision but the preparation, the sacrifice – it was a broader team effort.’

    We had to hear this from Europe, of course – due to the in-the-tank, corrupt media.

  289. Damn, James. We’re going to bore the others. Besides, mom writes decent accounts. She’s been to SA often enough. Here’s more…

    The trip was exceptional! We were 2 out of 251 passengers from 18 different countries on the MV Nordnorge . We flew to Buenos Aires where we spent a full day, touring and attending a wonderful Tango show. We had an early flight the next day to Ushuaia, Argentina where we toured the Tierra del Fuego National Park and had our first view of snow covered mountains in the distance.

    We boarded the ship in late afternoon and left port sometime in the evening during dinner. We would be cruising through Drake’s Passage (400 miles, approx. 35 hours) . This is the area of the Antarctic Convergence, an ever-changing frontier as it could never be determined exactly where it is going to occur. It is where the warm waters of the north meet the colder waters of the south. The seas could be either “Drake’s Lake” or “Drake’s Snake.” I took a Bonine before going to sleep, just in case. Good thing, because we got the “snake” (but luckily, the “Lake” on our return trip) We were really rocking and rolling which woke us in the a.m.

    Nothing about the smell of penguins. She thought they were cute. Here’s some more details…

    We made most of the planned landings ( 8 out of 10), missed two because of weather and/or seas. The most significant landing was at Cape Horn. We were told that it is only possible on an average of 10 days out of the year and we were lucky enough to be one of those 10. One passenger was on his third cruise, determined to make it and finally did. We had several Phd’s, historians and scientists who were the lecturers on board, one had made 9 cruises and another 5 and were ecstatic at finally making the Horn. (There were 10 scientists; historians, biologists, paleontologists, etc., on board who gave wonderful lectures.)

  290. Rutherford, the world is full of good Obama News tonight. Congratulations – looks like campaign mode is flying high and marching towards Armageddon.

    Pfesser never knew how prophetic he was this afternoon.

    New Obama slogan has long ties to Marxism, socialism

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2012/apr/30/new-obama-slogan-has-long-ties-marxism-socialism/

    Even the slogan is inept, you poor, helpless thieves. 😉 Personally, I thought it beat the hell out of ‘Yes We Can!!’ 😈

  291. Carter’s decision was more courageous.

    Claiming that Obama was courageous because he risked “his presidency” is just sad. Like “his presidency” is the preeminent concern.

    The real courage came from those that planned and executed the plan — and risked their lives for God’s sake. To diminish that by taking undue credit for a decision anyone would’ve made (other than Biden :roll:) is not “leadership.”

    Laughable. Obama is going to take a beating if he continues overselling his role.

  292. It’s all a spin game. Obama is not top dog. He may be POTUS, but only the symbolic buck stops there. Ceremony. You see how Goldman Sacs and NATO lead him around. He was probably certain of whatever his advisers told him was fact. Nothing more, nothing less. History records this kill on his watch. The only thing left is to breakdown the tune and keep us in the groove.

    But there are some who claim this was not as we are being sold. The entire story (if you can recall) was awkward and changed several times with revelations of the administration releasing faked photos. Is that the event we’re discussing? This is the “bin Laden” hit, right? Psychedelic. 😎

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/02/05/bush-knew-bin-laden-murdered-in-2001/

  293. Re. post 347. I agree, there will have to be some sort of compromise between tax increases and spending cuts as the status quo is not doing anyone any good. I guess the question is can the two parties agree where the tax increase should go and where cuts should be made? If recent history is anything to go by then the answer is a resounding no. I can’t see any significant movement happening on this matter before the election as neither side will be willing to be seen to give ground least their supporters think they’re “selling out”. Perhaps if the elections shift the balance of power decisively (one way or the other) in November we’ll see a quick resolution thereafter? We can only hope.

    I also tend to agree with your last sentiment re. the politicians – which is why I think it would be healthy for the country to have a much clearer balance of power across both houses. If one party is firmly in control perhaps they’ll be less insecure, less inclined to feel the need to “buy votes” and more inclined to just do whatever needs to be done.

  294. any president would have acted on the intel.

    Any president except Mitt Romney. When Obama said years ago that he would strike in Pakistan if told there was a high value target there, Mitt said he was wrong.

    Sorry Rabbit …. Mitt stepped in it. And believe me, the only Seals griping about Obama right now are some conservatives the Fox-oriented media got a hold of.

  295. Tex, Rabbit has no point. The no-brainer was opposed by several of Obama’s close advisers including Bob Gates (a fact you conveniently ignored the first time I mentioned it).

    As for the UK papers, I’ve noticed at least one or two of them decidedly anti-Obama and clearly not objective. Like Fox. 🙂

  296. I might add Tex, another Dem you like to condemn had a similarly tough decision about 50 years ago this time … John Kennedy was urged by several of his cabinet members to invade Cuba during the missile crisis. Kennedy chose moderation. In retrospect, it has been learned that Khrushchev was ready and willing to nuke NYC if Kennedy had made any move.

    So much for Dem’s being lousy at foreign policy. Bwahahahahahahaha!

  297. I will end on this note before going to bed.

    You boys are all puckered up cos that’s what happens when you’ve got sour grapes in your mouth. George W. Bush (he was “any President” right?) had Osama in his cross-hairs in Tora Bora and let him get away. Obama had him in his cross-hairs and killed the bastard.

    Like it or not, Obama got done what W could not get done. So my friends, please

    SUCK
    ON
    IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 👿

  298. He did not let him get away, he just got away. Big difference.

    The vast majority of the work that allowed UBL to be killed happened under Bush and there are significant components to that intel that would not have been found out under Obama’s watch because of his policies.

    The interview, part of NBC News’s special Rock Center episode pegged to the anniversary of bin Laden’s death, was previewed on NBC Nightly News tonight.

    “Well, I worry about it, just because it’s the political season,” Adm. Mullen tells Williams. “And from my perspective, the president’s support, the decision that he made, and obviously, the result stand alone in terms of the kind of call presidents have to make and he made it. I do worry a great deal that this time of year that somehow this gets spun into election politics. I can assure you that those individuals who risk their lives–the last thing in the world that they want is to be spun into that. So I’m hoping that that doesn’t happen.”

    Which is a fact:

    Serving and former US Navy SEALs have slammed President Barack Obama for taking the credit for killing Osama bin Laden and accused him of using Special Forces operators as ‘ammunition’ for his re-election campaign.

    The SEALs spoke out to MailOnline after the Obama campaign released an ad entitled ‘One Chance’.

    This is of course beside the point that Obama said he was not going to use this for politics.

    I notice though that you’re not saying a lot about how Libya, Egypt and Syria are going. How are you liking all those al-Qaida flags fluttering in the NATO liberated breeze? Obama did what UBL never could: he saved the brand from failure.

  299. Gorilla, good to see you back. You have been missed.

    Rutherford’s bent because I pointed out to him if Obama gets credit for “Osama”, Richard Nixon gets credit for putting America on the moon. Pisses him off but it obviously is the truth. Obama was a benefactor of serendipity in that we happen to find him while Obama President. Then he got loony when Rabbit told him any President would have done the same. He goes further to make analogy this was Obama’s Cuban Missile Crisis. 🙄

    This is what it has come to. Obama’s one claim to dubious fame, which its “greatness” is now unraveling.

    So Rutherford, you didn’t answer my question about Bob Gates trying to talk Obama out of it. I don’t believe you and want your proof. A question you conveniently ignored form above. Would you like to apologize now, or pretend Obama was responsible for that to?

    By the way, the man you are discounting as unreliable actually lead Seal Team 6. 🙄 Desperation has set in – you were more refined with your PDS than your OAF (Obama Asskissing Fantasy).

  300. Obama looks like a fool trying to play this for something it was not. That’s what’s got R’s panties in a twist.

    Little man Obama shows himself for what he is again.

    Bwhahahahahahah!

  301. Thanks, Poolman. I don’t know about the others,but you didn’t bore me.

    I agree with Political Capital. Nothing much will happen before one side or the other wins decisivly and the polls support the winners.

    Rutherford is wrong to use the Cuban missile crisis to make his point about Democratic competence in foreign affairs. The Cuban invasion idea started under Eeisenhour, and Kennedy continued it. The original plan featured air attacks to cripple Cuba’s air force.There was one attack, I believe.

    Generals running the operation warned the invasion would have problems if the Cuban Air Force was intact. Kennedy apparently thought more attacks were too provocative, so he canceled further attacks. The Cubans landed at the Bay of Pigs and we know what happened next. We sent no help that I remember, and the brave Cubans were killed or imprisoned.

    Kennedy blundered. He either should have canceled the operation or used force to help it succeed.

    Meanwhile, Kennedy and Khrusev met at Vienna, and it was a disaster for our president. Khruseve bullied Kennedy and left convinced our president was a weak man who could be rolled.

    The Cuban missile crisis developed because Kennedy signaled US weakness, and the Soviets thought they could install missiles with little interference. Kennedy rightly refused to bomb Cuba and faced down the Soviets, but his was not a triumph proving Democrats could successfully run our foreign policy. Kennedy merely dug us out of the hole he created.

    So, Rutherford, BWHAHAHA to you!

  302. Yes, we missed you gorilla.

    Obama is lying and it took a British news paper to call him on it. Rutherford says the Daily Mail is biased. Does he think the same of the New York Times, the Washington Post or MSNBC?

    I believe the SEAL story is true. Obama has little to show for his three and a half years, and taking undue credit while belittling the competition is about all he can do For example, . another report shows that the average middle class income has fallen more under Obama’s term than during the Bush years.

    The campaign’s apparently choosing a socialist/communist symbol bears further testimony to this inept administration. I suppose one can defend them as clever progressive/fascists who believe it is time to finish the peaceful revolution, but I still give them credit for merely being simple-minded.

  303. Thanks guys, appreciated.

    I would argue that UBL is Obama’s ONLY National Security success story. History will show Egypt, Libya and Syria as catastrophic failures for this Administration. Period.

    Rodriguez is destroying the facade that has been Pelosi’s position. Interestingly, it matches what we’ve been saying for years…

  304. Not only is UBL Obama’s only success story (less you count the Lilly Ledbetter Act, Cash for Clunkers, and Jobs “touched” by the stimulus, right Rutherford? 😆 ), but Obama’s abject stupidity and gross arrogance has crashed and burned in the Middle East. And I do mean crashed and burned.

    You want to see hypocrisy Political Capital? You want to see what big government brings you? Here, learn by example.

    Krauthammer aptly destroys President Toy Story with this one. And Rutherford’s hero worship takes another nose dive into the dust.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/while-syria-burns/2012/04/26/gIQAQUC0jT_story.html

  305. I’m sure the appointment of more inside traders, sodomites, race hustlers, and government tax cheats on the Atrocities Prevention Board will solve all our problems in the Middle East.

    The Atrocities Prevention Board. 😈 That’s rich.

  306. Rutherford, it appears according to the Seals, you’ve overreached again. Buwahahaahahahaaha. Does their opinion count? When are you going to learn it would be best to keep the arrogant smirks to a minimum before receiving another dogpile?

    Chris Kyle, a former SEAL sniper with 160 confirmed and another 95 unconfirmed kills to his credit, said: ‘The operation itself was great and the nation felt immense pride. It was great that we did it.

    ‘But bin Laden was just a figurehead. The war on terror continues. Taking him out didn’t really change anything as far as the war on terror is concerned and using it as a political attack is a cheap shot.

    ‘In years to come there is going to be information that will come out that Obama was not the man who made the call. He can say he did and the people who really know what happened are inside the Pentagon, are in the military and the military isn’t allowed to speak out against the commander- in-chief so his secret is safe.’

    This sentiment is widespread according to another report:

    The frustration—or, even anger—within the SEAL community is real, and has been brewing for months, particularly among a politically conservative core of operators. It started immediately after the raid, with questions among the Special Forces and intelligence community of whether the president should have waited to announce the kill to exploit the intelligence cache at Osama’s compound. It simmered after a Chinook helicopter was shot down, killing 30 Americans, 22 of them Navy SEALs from Team Six.

    Was it a coincidence, SEALs asked themselves, catastrophe hit Team Six so soon after being named as the team responsible for the killing?

    Ouch.

    Looks like the real heroes – you know Rutherford, the guys that actually carried out the mission??? – don’t agree with your or El Presidente’s sentiments.

    It’s a shame we can’t give the figurative slap across Shelley Antoinette’s bulbous ass while we are are at it for living large and being a thief. But I’m a patient man when it comes to butt slapping the mule.

  307. Tex, you don’t bother to watch the main stream media news so no, I won’t give you a link about Bob Gates just so you can tell me it’s bullsh*t. You’re the one full of sh*t.

    Gorilla, welcome back and good to see you’re slinging monkey poo just like in the old days.

    If Obama had delayed, and Osama got away, you wouldn’t be saying “Obama didn’t let him get away, he got away”. You’d be calling Obama incompetent. So just like your buddy Tex, you’re full of sh*t.

    Bush lost Osama, Obama found him and killed him.

    SUCK
    ON
    IT !!!!!!!!!!!

    P.S. The Seal team members ought to STFU since the story goes that folks on the ground WANTED to take Osama out on Bush’s watch in Tora Bora but were pulled off. The Seal team ought to be grateful they’ve got a competent leader who let them do what they do best.

    So, to the Seal team malcontents (all GOPhers, no doubt) I say paratroop into my home and ….

    SUCK
    ON
    IT !!!!!!!!!!!

  308. Kennedy merely dug us out of the hole he created.

    James, you, like others on this board fail to appreciate what I call “moments of decision”. Bay of Pigs has nothing to do with this. Kennedy had a crisis on his hands, his advisers told him to invade/bomb Cuba and he had the good sense to ignore them. That’s a moment of decision where he made the right one. It can’t be taken away from him.

    In the same way, Obama was told 60-40 odds against Osama being in that compound. He was told not to take the chance. He had a decision to make and he made the right one.

    And you know what’s the funniest thing about all this? The Osama-kill will NOT, I repeat, will NOT win Obama reelection. But you guys hate him so that you can’t let him get any traction on an indisputable accomplishment, even one that in the end really does not threaten Romney.

    On this blog, with all due respect, I consort with a bunch of petty buttheads. It’s a shame …. and it’s unpatriotic to boot.

  309. History will show Egypt, Libya and Syria as catastrophic failures for this Administration.

    The most asinine comment to hit this blog in weeks. G, your blog sabbatical has done you no good at all.

    Egypt and Libya were “liberated” from their domineering leaders. I know America is arrogant as hell, but we don’t get to choose the new leaders of these countries. If the arc of history shows that radical Islam will overtake these countries by popular demand there’s not a damn thing any POTUS can do about it.

    As for Syria … what do you want? Depose Assad and see another radical Islam stronghold develop? Make up your f*cking mind. Is the status quo better than what we might get post-revolution or not? You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

  310. Rutherford –

    You would seem to me a bit inconsistent. You give yourself permission to judge the previous regime (domineering) but refuse us the same consideration vis a vis the regime that took its place (corpse-fucking stinkbeards)

    Pls advise…

  311. In his article Krauthammer says Clinton saved Kosovo by summoning NATO to bomb the hell out of Serbia. If I remember the facts correctly Clinton wanted nothing to do with Kosovo and was pressured into action by Tony Blair.

    With that said, from a humanitarian point of view, I’m not happy with our inconsistency. I think we should be doing more in Syria. But I repeat … when we arm and train the Syrian rebels we better be damn prepared for what politics might take over Syria should Assad be deposed.

  312. particularly among a politically conservative core of operators.

    I rest my case.

    Was it a coincidence, SEALs asked themselves, catastrophe hit Team Six so soon after being named as the team responsible for the killing?

    When Poolman says this, you call him a lunatic. Now you’re the one reaching for outrageous conspiracy theories.

    I laugh at you and pity you at the same time. You deserve Romney.

    P.S. Why don’t we all just sign up for Poolman’s theory that the whole argument is moot because that WASN’T Osama that got killed? Yeah, that’s the ticket!

  313. PF, no inconsistency at all. On the contrary, the inconsistency lies on the part of conservatives. They want freedom movements to prevail against despots but then get their panties in a knot when the freedom movement doesn’t implement their idea of good government.

    We all should judge the prior and current regimes but we have to understand overthrow does not guarantee improvement.

    Why don’t we all just stop f*cking around and do what we really want to do …. colonize every country that does not currently follow our brand of democracy? Just say f*ck it. Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Syria, you’re all Puerto Rico now. You’re all territories of the United States. Welcome to the free world!!

  314. Ruitherford, Kennedy CREATED the crisis. The Bay of Pigs had everything to do with it. Our feckless abandonment of the Cubans impressed the Soviets. The Bay of Pigs happened in April, and the Vienna conference was held in June. The Soviets believed Kennedy’s judgement displayed weakness and the conference convinced them. You delude yourself if you believe the two were unrelated.

    Kennedy should have canceled the Bay of Pigs operation if he was afraid to bomb Cuba. He selected the worst possible scenario, and his decision made undeserving men die. Kennedy’s decision made the Soviets brave enough to indulge in risky adventurism.

    I’m older than you, and I remember. I’m not condescending. I just remember because the time felt dangerous. My college room mates and I converted our basement apartment into a bomb shelter and stocked it with food and batteries.

    Kennedy told Scotty Reston that he had blown the conference.

    In fairness, Kennedy was lucky to be walking upright. He self injected hormones, steroids, vitamins, amphetamines and other drugs I don’t remember. He carried a virtual suitcase to hold them all. This combination created mood swings.

    I agree, Kennedy’s moment of decision helped save us from the mess he created. However, Khrushev’s moment of decision was just as important. Both reactions may have saved the world. Had the Soviets been irrational, we wouldn’t be around to have this conversation. No one knew if the Soviets’ ships would turn back as they steamed toward our blockade.

    As I wrote, Kennedy dug us out of a hole he created.

    You are a smart man, and I respect your mind, but I don’t understand how you can be so ignorant about an important chapter of our history.

    Could it be your teachers? Our fifth grade teacher was a partisan Democrat and she lied about how FDR had fixed the economy and rescued the United States from the Depression. Republicans had thwarted him so often, they made his job harder.

    I didn’t know how badly she had betrayed her students until our high school history class showed us what really happened. Did you have a teacher as bad as ours?

  315. “But you guys hate him so that you can’t let him get any traction on an indisputable accomplishment, even one that in the end really does not threaten Romney.”

    From the guy that was tweeting after the kill that Obama’s re-election was a lock?

    Now, you’re claiming he’s not being given his due? Everyone has acknowledged it was a success. If you want something more, what is it?

    Obama has the audacity to allege Romney wouldn’t make the same call? No one is buying it. His arrogant douchy attempt to diminish other’s accomplishments and exploit his “non-fuck-up” should offend, not gratify.

    Anyway, get the Biden bumper sticker and place it proudly on you Prius. Gauging from what I’ve seen of the reaction, I’ll wager Obama will be moving on looking for a new false narrative.

    The fact that you’re twisted that we don’t recognize all of Oblamo’s “greatness” (*snicker*) is all the proof needed.

  316. Rutherford, this is too painful to watch. You are besieged this morning, and your frustrated comments reflect your discomfiture.. Your arguments are falling apart because they are based on bogus information and interpretation.

    I should be gloating, but I can’t I just feel sad that you lack the tools to defend your views right now. I’m checking out for a few hours.

  317. James, R hasn’t figured out that the 😈 when used by him is the “wrong way sign” he is blowing past as he enters the freeway via the off ramp. Every Time.

  318. R –

    I agree completely with your implied suggestion that we should just mind our own business and let the world mind its. If you have ANY time on your hands, please, please, please read Washington’s farewell address. He speaks to this very thing. It wouldn’t hurt a bit to leaven it with Eisenhower’s farewell address also, (military industrial complex speech).

    It is sooooooooo seductive to “help” others “throw off the coils of bondage” but we know what is paved with good intentions – and that, my friend, is how we got where we are today. At my last count, it was about 1511 when Switzerland got into its last foreign adventure. Maybe we should study a little Swiss history and we won’t be constantly tangled up with these tar-babies.

  319. “He did not let him get away, he just got away. Big difference.” G

    They involved locals in the final assault. Big mistake. They learned from that, probably why they didn’t give Pakistani officials a heads up.

    Of course, Bush as super strong responsible “Mission Accomplished” Commander-in-Chief decider guy, took the man responsible for the Tora Bora failure into the Oval Office, dressed him down and kicked him down the road to early retirement … err, well, not exactly. He gave him command of the invasion of Iraq. Lincoln must have been rolling over in his grave.

  320. You don’t have to take Obama’s word for it. Romney made it clear in 2007 what he would have done. Either he would of taken no action at all or he would of taken action but warned the Pakistanis first, allowing OBL to slip away again. Of course, I know you guys kind of forget anything that happened before January 2009, so here is a refresher.

    “If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won’t act, we will,” Obama said.

    Romney, the former Massachusetts governor who is one of the Republican front-runners, said U.S. troops “shouldn’t be sent all over the world.” He called Obama’s comments “ill-timed” and “ill-considered.”

    “There is a war being waged by terrorists of different types and nature across the world,” Romney said. “We want, as a civilized world, to participate with other nations in this civilized effort to help those nations reject the extreme with them.”

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/08/03/us-usa-politics-obama-idUSN0340211820070803

  321. “off topic but who cares. I just did one of those interactive electoral maps…I got Mitt winning with a min of 287 a max of 302. You heard it here first. lol
    R something for you to cut and paste until November at least” Alfie

    Can you list the states that will deliver the White House to Romney?

  322. R, do you mean to say that AQ’s assumption of power in local communities in Libya, Syria, and Egypt is ok because the people chose them? Are we to accept the Islamization of the Middle East- and the inevitable demise of the democracy that you think is forming- because it is politically good for Obama?

    Democracy in the Middle East is likely to be smothered in its cradle because it is not in the interest of the groups assuming power. Like Carter gave us Iran, so Obama gives us Egypt and Libya. Smooth genius, smooth…

  323. “Which one?”

    The one that didn’t take out Bin Laden despite numerous opportunities, one of which was lost because of dick-sucking scandal.

    Thor we already went through Romney’s prior comments. He would’ve killed Bin Laden under the same circumstances as Obama. My house cat would’ve issued the same order.

    You guys are looking foolish. By all means, carry on.

  324. Democracy in the Middle East is likely to be smothered in its cradle because it is not in the interest of the groups assuming power.

    Blame heavy meddle.

  325. I never was a Bush fan. He was better than the alternatives, and not by much. His accomplishments were more notable than his opponents advertised.

    Poolman, Clinton is not just an intelligent politician, he is an intelligent man. Hillary is at least as smart and more focused. Being too intelligent for you zone of incompetancy carries the risk of laziness and sloppy behavior.

    Our niece and her husband helped search for Osama bin Ladin. They repaired Black Hawk helicopters, but the Army was so short-handed, they rotated them as gunners every two weeks.

    The United States beat the Taliban so easily because we made it Afghanistan’s war. War lords of various stripes united to drive out a common enemy. The strategy did have disadvantages. Virtually independent Afghanis helped search for bin Ladin, and some likely helped him escape.

    “Mission Accomplished” looked good at the time, and it might have been a great Bush campaign ad, except for his mismanagement of the war. Rumsfeld believed in a “light foot print.” We would use mobile forces and leap frog many areas to possess strategic cities and other important sites. The strategy gave us Iraq with in a minimum of time and relatively few military and civilian casualties.

    The plan might have worked, but the allies stupidly fired the Iraqi armed forces and most suspect government officials. They created a vacume which employed US soldiers who couldn’t speak the language to adjudicate dispute and otherwise help civilian society to function. We know what happened next.

    Hypothosing Romney’s actions in a fictional scenario for political gain diminishes Obama. If he continues to let Romney get under his skin, Obama will become so small he won’t even fit in Sarah Palin’s shoes.

  326. Blame Obama if Middle Eastern democracy is still born. Bush encouraged it for awhile, but people hostile to our interests were elected, so Bush changed course.

    I read that Obama thinks the Arab Spring will help us beat the terrorists. If we encourage extremists to win power in the Middle East, they will not have to express their goals with bombs. It is about as poorly thought out as Fast and Furious.

  327. James, incompetence applies to inability, whereas these folks are very capable. They are not there to strike up a new tune, rather to join the choir. More voices add to the melody. The song becomes etched in our mind. We learn the verses and dance to the beat. Pavlov pimps the pied piper. There is nothing new under the sun.

  328. Poolman, I agree, but capable people also miscalculate.They miscalculated the outcome of democracy. There may be nothing new under the sun, but combinations and variations alter old things.

  329. James, I agree. I think all of those anyway involved in 9/11 miscalculated. I don’t think the outcome of democracy or any system of government is left to chance. MANipulators™ rig the system. The “alter” may be different, buy the gods are the same.

    The United States government (largely through the CIA and its predecessors) is directly responsible for the overthrow of at least half a dozen democratically elected governments around the world over the past hundred plus years.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions

  330. Poolman, isn’t conservative amnesia something to behold?

    Yeah. Almost as awesome as liberal delusion. 😀

  331. Poolman, this comment on the Clinton Fox smackdown video puts it succinctly:

    Clinton tired to kill Bin Laden

    Obama managed to kill him.

    George Bush did nothing…

    Oh, btw did I tell everyone here dissing Obama to

    SUCK
    ON
    IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

    😆 I just finished spewing my venom on my Internet radio show where I also told “the sour grape suckers” to compare Bush’s Osama record to Obama’s and “suck on that”.

    I’m a happy man now.

    P.S. Arianna Huffington can eat my shorts too.

  332. Rutherford’s new professional reference, authority and associate is now Poolman. 😆 Part of the national conscience.

    Right ON! Was it the insect drones that bowled you over?

    Poolman is quoting Clinton as the wickedly smart politician – maybe to dupes and stooges. Of course, I have said all along that Clinton is politically smart next to Owebama.

    I watched that interview and was reminded of Clinton’s wickedly smart associate Sandy Burglar trying to steal papers from the national archives in his underwear and socks to protect the Clintons. 😈

    “I DID NOT HAVE SEX WITH THAT WOMAN…MS. LEWINSKY”

  333. I hope that Huffington quote was dissing her, R. The idea of Arianna Huffington ANYWHERE in my shorts gives my willie the willies.

  334. Are we to accept the Islamization of the Middle East- and the inevitable demise of the democracy that you think is forming- because it is politically good for Obama?

    This has nothing to do with what is good for Obama. When the people of a nation rise up against their ruler/government, they get to choose the replacement, not us. If we don’t like the replacement, that’s the way the cookie crumbles … we have to figure out how to deal with them.

    Are you telling me that the Egyptians liked Mubarek and a few radicals tried to oust him and we stood by and let it happen? Or was Mubarek ousted because he lost the confidence of his people? Same for Libya. Countries are not pawns on a chess board for us to manipulate. If we’re so interested in human rights, maybe we should be demanding more of our “allies” on this score all along the line and not wait for a powder keg to blow. How many Presidents before Obama told Mubarek to get his act together? As the Saudi government treats their women like neanderthals we kiss the Saudi’s ass and have for decades. Why don’t we speak up now before an overthrow occurs and we no longer have any leverage?

    Truth is our foreign policy has seldom taken the high ground. Now is no time to castigate Obama for it.

  335. Rutherford gets his rant about health care – now I get mine.

    Once a year I have to take a stress test with an electrocardiologist to get my prescription renewed for ventricular tachycardia. Every year, my doc runs the stress test up to the max and marvels – probably because I’m looking really good next to the stent patients he typical deals with lying half dead on the table.

    This year, I guess I’ve graduated to myocardial perfusion scan. Best I can tell, following an exercise stress test, you are injected with radioisotopes to measure blood flow of the heart – the damn thing takes two hours. Absolutely no caffeine for 12 hours or you owe them $50.00 – WTH?

    Anyway, okay so I’ll take the test without bitching. But if you’re going to make me completely fast and go without even water the last three hours, at least make the F***ING test in the morning so I don’t have fast 20 hours at a minimum. 😡

    I swear, I think the administration of most doctor’s offices isn’t smart enough to shine shoes.

  336. Thor we already went through Romney’s prior comments. He would’ve killed Bin Laden under the same circumstances as Obama.

    Are you mentally retarded? Romney is on record saying he would NOT have taken out bin Laden under the same circumstances. According to Romney, bin Laden was “one man” not worth the expense (same argument as Bush) AND that you don’t enter an ally’s country to take out an enemy without their consent. He said that. So, are you dumb, deaf or both?

  337. Rutherford,

    Obama’s domestic disaster is only exceeded by his profound stupidity concerning foreign policy (and his choice of wife). I guess we’ve got you pretty wound up, hey?

    Here’s the bottom line – the truth. Bush screwed up by hedging his bet with the Northern Alliance. We should have nuked Tora Bora and been done with IMO, with instruction next time we’ll nuke your whole country if another 9/11 happens again and there won’t be so much as anything that burrows left on your godforsaken rock. I give you props – Bush screwed the pooch. At the very least, we should have left strictly U.S. military handle the entire Afghan operaton.

    Bush and Cheney also screwed up in Iraq initially by removing the current armed police. Prolonged a war, though understandable the approach. Bad decision.

    Otherwise, we decimated Al Qaeda on Iraq

    However, Bush

  338. I hope that Huffington quote was dissing her, R.

    Oh it was, it was. I’ve been pissed at Arianna ever since I found out the rich rhymes-with-rich doesn’t pay many of her bloggers. She’s a sliver spooned fraud … former conservative. I always wonder about former conservatives. (Yes, Ed Schulz, that means you too!!!)

  339. Oops…Not sure what I hit. Still get used to my new equipment – forgive the half post.

    we decimated Al Qaeda on Iraqi soil. Period. Bush’s call carried a thousand times more risk than anything your noodle armed putz has done. Period. Obama is frankly gutless and I’m convinced hates America from the days of colonialism. Obama is both inane and naive – a deadly combination. Our relationship with the Middle East is worse than its ever been and Obama has dissed our best allies. That magic in 2008 now has China laughing at him and Putin calling Obama incompetent and a pussy.

    Obama’s Afghan policy has been a disaster from day one. His own hand picked generals turned against him two months into the Afghan surge for crying out loud. It is obvious most of the American military has no respect for him. Death in Afghanistan has skyrocketed under Obama. GITMO is still not only open, but revamped with a new soccer field.

    Don’t give us this petty shit about Osama. Obama is an abject failure concerning foreign policy. Only Clinton was more of a sham.

  340. I owe several of you a note of gratitude. I’ve suffered from ennui lately, very ambivalent about politics in general. I’d lost my fire. Thanks to this asinine conversation about Obama’s singular foreign policy accomplishment, the fire is burning again. I haven’t had this much fun on my Internet radio show in months.

    Thank you, my petty GOP readers …. I am in your debt. 🙂

  341. As per usual, Tex misses the point. I wasn’t quoting any Clinton. I think Hillary is more power hungry and bloodthirsty than Bill. I think both are very intelligent. They do know how the game is played and in turn play the game well.

  342. I swear, I think the administration of most doctor’s offices isn’t smart enough to shine shoes.

    If you want to see f*cked up administration, try the billing department of Apria healthcare. Every now and then they ask if I want to sign up for automatic withdrawal from my account and every time I tell them, minus the profanity, are you f*cking kidding me???

  343. Tex, there were not any al Qaeda in Iraq until we invaded and our CIA set them up. Gawd, you folks are hopeless. 🙄 Afghanistan is a success! Now we’re getting Iraq into the poppy trade, too. They don’t call it dope for nothing.

  344. Poolman, I missed nothing. Your entire life has no point.

    If you don’t think Al Qaeda was crawling through Iraq, you are even stupider than I thought. And as you may be aware, that was pretty stupid to begin with.

    But even assuming you were right (you’re not), Al Qaeda came running after the war started – and they were baited there for the kill. Brilliant tactical strategy.

    And our military decimated them on Iraqi soil instead of Manhattan.

  345. From what I understand Poolman is absolutely right. No al Qaeda in Iraq until we went in and screwed things up.

    Also, if I understand correctly … the country most able to keep Iran in check … Iraq. That is until we decimated the country and put in an impotent government.

  346. Some al Qaeda troops were already in Iraq before the war. They flocked there during the virtual civil war, and Iraq became a recruiting tool until the surge. So many were killed that captured documents showed al Qaeda leaders were worried about being short- handed. They weren’t finding enough replacements for those who died.. al Quaeda offended so many Iraqis many switched to our side.

    The surge helped discredit and decimate al Quaeda, as Tex wrote.I don’t know if it was good strategy or serandipity. .

    I opposed our invasion of Iraq until it started and we had no choice. I agree a weaker Iraq helps Iran. We left too early. We should keep soldiers in Iraq until its institutions are stronger. We broke it and we didn’t spend enough time to fix it.If we weren’t willing to occupy Iraq at least as long as we did Europe and Japan, we shouldn’t have invaded.

    You know this is a distraction don’t you. The subject takes peoples’ minds off our real problem, the economy.

  347. When the people of a nation rise up against their ruler/government, they get to choose the replacement, not us. – R

    Is that what you think happened? My my my, you are a gullible little boy, aren’t you. You do realize that the people who rose up are not in power, nor are the folks they looked towards for leadership. Same thing happened in Iran.

    Was AQ in Iraq first? We know they had folks there, at least transiting and hiding, but certainly not in the numbers that later came. There’s AQ all over north Africa now, mostly because of the Islamic Winter (Arab Spring my ass), and they are entrenching. So much for Huck’s theory eh?

    I’d love to hear R recount to us the Administrations FP successes.

  348. I never thought I’d live to see the day Rutherford became Poolman’s lackey, counting on the Poolman Fact Checker to assure Rutherford of future paths to follow.

    😆 😆 😆

    I didn’t realize things had gotten that bleak in my absence. Poolman is still Poolman, but Rutherford as become the Poolman Puppet. Rutherford, you need to follow your master over to Chatty Kitchen.

    However, it might explain the quality and content of some of these posts.

  349. Whatever happened to Huck? He disappeared while I was gone and hasn’t been seen since to the best of my knowledge.

  350. “Are you mentally retarded? Romney is on record saying he would NOT have taken out bin Laden under the same circumstances.”

    No he didn’t. 🙄

  351. I love when you try to act tough Rutherford. It’s kinda cute, kinda pathetic, and always a sign that your argument lacks merit.

    I won’t bother trying to correct you as Alfie did. It is too amusing listening to you shout louder and louder apparently believing volume changes the message. Of course that means I’m not deaf and therefore, according to you, I must be “retarded” — leaving you somewhere less than retarded.

  352. Well Tigre, look at it this way, it’s me shouting louder and louder trying to get through thick heads vs you and others repeating the same lies over and over thinking enough repeats will turn them into the truth.

    As much as I’d love to drop this topic, I’ll be doubling down tomorrow with a new post. 🙂

  353. Gorilla the Obama FP accomplishments that stand out for me are, obviously the capture and killing of bin Laden and along the same lines, a much better record of removing top ranking terrorists than his predecessor. Oddly and unexpectedly, Obama has waged a very successful “war on terror”. This is a double edged sword since his hawkishness flies in the face of what I hoped would be a more humanitarian foreign policy. While I always felt the Nobel Peace prize going to Obama was an utter embarrassment, it now looks all the more ridiculous considering how aggressive we have been overseas.

    As for the Arab Spring, I’m not sure I’d give Obama any credit or blame for what has gone down. If one judges the success of one’s foreign policy by the Secretary of State, it is my understanding that Hillary has done a bang-up job and is respected around the world (perhaps more than Obama himself). Since I’m pretty sure you have little respect for the State Department in general, I don’t expect you to agree with me.

  354. Hillary Clinton has done a bang up job! Where do you get this crap? Bang up? You mean like in comparison to Obama? Who hasn’t done a bang up job then? Very successful war on terror. 🙄 Can you keep this up for six months and keep the car on the road? Because your tread is bald.

    You’ve gone from wild exaggeration to outright lying on this thread. If you’re going to bag it for Obama, you might as well come out and tell us how many jobs Obama has saved too and how he prevented a Depression and has restored America’s reputation.

    Why don’t you transpose Obama raising the flag on Iwo Jima memorial? It would be as realistic as the rest of your assessment.

    Yeah, Obama has waged such a successful war on terror, under his campaign American deaths have increased 500% in Afghanistan and it appears we’ve lost control. That was after Obama dithered to put in more troops and announced when we are leaving while the Taliban waits us out. Pakistan is teetering, this time a bunch of clowns with a nuclear arsenal. Russia and China are laughing in your face and stocking weaponry in Iran. Ask the Syrian people how successful Obama has been. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad got the bomb. while Obama golfed in Hawaii.

    How can you possibly say that with a straight face? Obama has two top ranking terrorists he has taken out. Two. One with drone strike. Rutherford, I’ve got to level with you. When it comes to complex issues (terror, GM Chapter 11) you are nothing more than a garden variety Fat Grannie rube and court jester. Don’t kid yourself – you are one of the pack and on par with the Poolman.

    This is the problem when you go seeking an answer and not the truth. If you weren’t the first time I met you, you certainly are now the political hack, taking his lead from the talking political heads you obsessively watch. I swear, you sound just like these losers on MSNBC.

    I’d like to know who you really think has great respect for Obama around the world besides a few U.N. lackeys and the Nobel Peace Prize Committee? Seriously, give me these world leaders who don’t find Obama a useful idiot to be consumed.

  355. We should keep soldiers in Iraq until its institutions are stronger.

    R retorts:
    You mean until hell freezes over?

    Hear! Hear! Well said. Also accurate, I’m afraid.

  356. Why is Obama in Afghanistan?

    He could’ve sent a diplomat to sign. . .

    Oh. Yeah. FP. Tough guy. Hero. Loved and respected by Karzai. 😆

    I wonder how much this campaign trip cost us. 🙄

  357. Tex, would shut it for crying out loud? 😆 Let them spout off about Obama’s FP and GM “decision” (all it was — not an accomplishment — as though the gov’t takeover could result in a business failure :lol:). Louder. Louder!!!

    (it ain’t selling — in fact it’s such patent desperation it’ giving the libs indigestion)

    So how’s the job market?

  358. So how’s the job market?

    Terrific. Obama’s planned stimulus has touched millions and the Volt stands a 50/50 chance of production sometime this year – another success!

  359. We occupied Korea, Japan, and western Europe long enough to rebuild them into the prosperous and peaceful countries they are today. Our soldiers did their job generations ago and occupy those countries for other reasons, now..

    Invading a country and destroying much of its political and economic infrastructure is pointless if we don’t provide the security for them to rebuild.

    Do you really think Iraq and Afghanistan will not revert to their old ways if we leave too soon? If they do, why did we bother?

  360. The Arab Spring was a blunder we will live with for awhile. The Middle East dictatorships were increasingly unpopular, and one of the first to rebel was the Green Movement of Iran. Iranians nearly took the country to a tipping point, but Obama ignored them.

    Egypt and other dictators, even Saddam Husein kept the extremists in check. I think we could have pressured Mobariik and several others to relinquish some of their power in an orderly way through seruptious threats and bribes. We might have helped the Democratic forces assume more power than they did.

    We helped inexperienced people with democratic aspirations bring down the dicatorships, and did nothing while the extremists usurped the revolution.

    Wars and revolutions are complex. They are more than taking down hostile governments, and unintended consequences abound.

  361. When it comes to complex issues (terror, GM Chapter 11) you are nothing more than a garden variety Fat Grannie rube

    Oh, and you are the epitome of sophisticated political analysis. 🙄

    I swear, you sound just like these losers on MSNBC.

    And you sound just like those idiots on Fox News.

  362. Why is Obama in Afghanistan?

    Right after Obama left there was a suicide bombing in Kabul. The man made this “campaign trip” at some risk. And there are actually patriotic soldiers (unlike dweebs like you) who were thrilled to see their Commander-in-Chief there. If he never went to Afghanistan you’d be calling him a lazy coward.

    Why don’t you just admit you want the man dead? Clearly when he breathes you object.:evil:

  363. We occupied Korea, Japan, and western Europe long enough to rebuild them into the prosperous and peaceful countries they are today. Our soldiers did their job generations ago and occupy those countries for other reasons, now..

    James, the difference is, when you invade a relatively civilized country, you can, with enough time, help them rebuild.

    What’s to rebuild in Afghanistan? It’s the stone-age, full of illiterate superstitiously religious people. You can’t rebuild without the human raw material. I may be cynical but I just don’t think it’s there in Afghanistan.

    Iraq is a different story admittedly. Under Sadam, Iraq was fairly modern and prosperous with a healthy middle class who fled when we came in and f*cked things up. Iraq does stand a better chance of renewal than Afghanistan but I suspect the corruption is so rampant that it would still take a near miracle.

  364. R, how you take these nitwits seriously is beyond me.

    Tigre, I agree. You can’t take these “nitwits” seriously if you’ve become a cynical assh*le.

    Instead of all the gossip column level critiques, why is no one here questioning the wisdom of committing some troops all the way out to 2024? That’s worth shouting about.

    But you boys would rather flail around in the cult of personality than deal with real issues.

  365. “Why don’t you just admit you want the man dead?”

    Okay. You may deem it admitted.

    R, I’m thinking you have OCD or something. Seriously. This is devolving into one of your Palin-like or Giffords-like rants. Just weird.

    I assure you if he never went to Afghanistan I wouldn’t say a word. We were there long before he was elected. I haven’t said a word about his failure to go for 3 years.

    It’s obvious that the agreement/meeting with Karzai was a pretext. Sorry. I won’t stand in line behind you to suck his dick no matter how many names you call me. The fact that that makes you so mad is kinda disturbing.

    So how’s the economy and the job market? See how easy that is? What makes you think is going to play?

  366. “Tigre, I agree. You can’t take these “nitwits” seriously if you’ve become a cynical assh*le.”

    Yeah. You’ve got to be a gullible dumbfuck.

    Take a damn chill pill.

  367. Basically any thing that Obama does in 2012 is geared toward re-election regardless of how it appears in MSM which includes Fox.

    You can all debate the pros and cons of his actions but bottom line the man wants to be POTUS for another 4 years and will do whatever it takes.

    For the next 6 months no one will be dealing with real issues. Might as well sit back and enjoy the mud slinging from both sides because that’s all you are going to see.

  368. I swear, you sound just like these losers on MSNBC. And you sound just like those idiots on Fox News.

    Idiots that have five times the audience.

    Basically any thing that Obama does in 2012 is geared toward re-election regardless of how it appears in MSM which includes Fox.

    Very true, Raji. That’s why some of us here see right through Obama and his motives understanding Obama’s true character is emptiness, rhetoric, narcissism, phoniness, and lust for power, while others here hold Obama as THE ONE, gloriously divine. Bring forth the Styrofoam Columns once again for President Neo!!!

    As further evidence your honor, Rutherford opines Obama’s braveness because he appeared in Kabul. CLAP CLAP CLAP! Arf! Arf! (Wets pants and faints)….

    By that measure, Toby Keith is the bravest patriot of us all and the Ryder Cup Team is Rambo incarnate. 😯

  369. President Neo Foodstamp garners another award rating Four Pinocchios:

    Washington Post Rebuts Obama’s Malicious Lie

    Barack Obama never lets truth get in the way of political advantage. Nothing new about that; mendacity has been a consistent theme of his 3 1/2 years in office. But it seems that more media outlets are willing to call the president on his falsehoods these days. Like, for example, Glenn Kessler of the Washington Post, who yesterday assigned Obama four Pinocchios–”whopper,” the worst possible designation–for his lies about infrastructure projects.

    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2012/05/washington-post-rebuts-obamas-malicious-lie.php

    Are You With Us America? Then send us your credit card number…

  370. More Good Obama News:

    “Why would GM cut R & D, the source of its future growth, in order to show profits in the short run? Is something happening in say, November, for which the 26%-government-owned entity might want its balance sheet to look artificially rosy?

    “Latest sales figures show GM’s market share has declined again.”

  371. What? What about all those tax dollars finally coming back from GM’s staggering success? Repayment of the creditors and bod holders? The big “success” story of an “industry” that needed to be and was “saved?” The article must be wrong. There’s no way this is a tax payer funded liability beholden to politics over profit and ling-term growth. 🙄

  372. “Hypothosing Romney’s actions in a fictional scenario for political gain diminishes Obama. If he continues to let Romney get under his skin, Obama will become so small he won’t even fit in Sarah Palin’s shoes.”

    Review 440. It’s not a hypothesis. In 2007, Obama said what he would do in that situation. That situation arose. He did it.

    In 2007 Romney said such action was “ill-considered”. Now he is saying not only would he have done it, but that it was actually a no-brainer. His complete undeniable flip-flopping is no big surprise. That’s Romney’s style. But the fact that you guys try to defend it is surprising.

  373. Why is Obama in Afghanistan?

    I guess there were no aircraft carriers off the coast of Southern California to land on. How much did that cost the taxpayers? You have the receipt in your wallet, right ET?

  374. I’m sorry but I’m having a major problem swallowing the lack of context here.
    Seriously folks the full and entire context of all statements that are making the rounds must be taken into consideration.

    In April of 2007 candidate Romney echoed a very sound and prudent policy. Osama bin Laden was a symbol especially given the nature of what was at hand and what Romney has showcased consistently. The GWOT is not a police action against a set list of players but an international joint venture against an ideology incarnate that endangers many.

    In 2007 Pakistan for ill or good was viewed as an ally,an ally whose sovereignty was to be respected. An international let alone unilateral flagrancy towards Pakistani sovereignty was truly unwise.
    Someone agrees with that when they said:

    “The way to deal with it is not to announce it, but to do it… The last thing you want to do is telegraph to the folks in Pakistan that we are about to violate their sovereignty.”

    That was Joe Biden btw.
    Obama clearly took the road of rhetoric to posit himself as tough on the issue. He gets credit imo for being the Oval occupant who had the pop to ok the assault on OBL. He is unwise to beat the dead horse or should I say Muslim.
    In full context though we have red meat hawkish Obama on OBL…. then we have his administration on everything else FP wise. The context is out of whack.
    I don’t know exactly how anyone can honestly believe ANY President would not have ok’s OBL’s whacking. I for one fully believe Romney would’ve ordered it,Biden would’ve,H. Clinton would’ve and J. McCain would’ve.Especially in the context of a) opportunity and b) heightened concern over Pakistan as a reliable ally.
    One last tie in for this scrambled mess of a comment I’ve offered w apologies.
    Pakistan and its citizens are pretty much DONE with Predators,Reapers etc taking their peeps out,especially the innocent folks. If you want to give Obama full credit on the FP front you must let him own the enemies we’ve created,the blood of the innocent and the internationally noticed lack of consistency regards our regard of others sovereignty.

  375. I’m sorry, thor. I thought the Prez landing in a fighter plane on the deck of a carrier was the coolest thing I have ever seen. He was, himself, a fighter pilot and it ain’t nothing to sneeze at.

    Beats the piss out of “community organizer” in the Real Job category, IMHO. Hell, I can barely get on the ground in bad weather, and my airport is not bouncing up and down and trying to run away at the same time.

    The three best things in life are a good landing, a good orgasm, and a good shit. A night carrier landing is one of the few opportunities to experience all three at the same time. Good for Bush.

  376. Wow, politicians lie. What incredible insight.

    Here’s your guy doing it.

    The Pinocchio Test
    Romney managed to get just about everything wrong in this story, in what appears to be a misguided attempt to both promote American exceptionalism and ding President Obama.
    Four Pinocchios

  377. “I’m sorry, thor. I thought the Prez landing in a fighter plane on the deck of a carrier was the coolest thing I have ever seen. He was, himself, a fighter pilot and it ain’t nothing to sneeze at.” – Pf

    Actually, I thought it was kind of cool too. I wasn’t complaining about him doing it, I was pointing out ET’s unending hypocrisy. I know who probably did complain, families of the sailors whose liberty was delayed by the stunt. “Support the Troops” 😉

  378. “Hell, I can barely get on the ground in bad weather, and my airport is not bouncing up and down and trying to run away at the same time.” PF

    I wonder what is more nerve racking, landing the jet or sitting in the back seat and trusting the other guy to do it. I’ve heard there are no atheists in foxholes. I wonder if there are any in nav seats?

    BTW, what kind of runways can you expect in Belize? 😉

  379. I wasn’t complaining about him doing it, I was pointing out ET’s unending hypocrisy. I know who probably did complain, families of the sailors whose liberty was delayed by the stunt.

    Oh baloney. Pfesser busted your lame analogy. You were whining and Pfesser pointed out equation. Bush flew jets – Obama penned with the help of an unrepentant terrorist two autobiographies of himself before he was even a Senator. What’s that say about the schmuck’s ego and character? That alone says all you need to know about Obama. Calling Rev. Wright.

    It never ceases to amaze how libs can lie, hyperbolize (a Kabul appearance 🙄 ) , choke on a gnat, demand tolerance while stoking strife, practice selective moral outrage, minimize failure, ignore epic failure.

    How’s that new soccer field at GITMO setting with you libs? Now will that justify not dragging Obama the Warmonger to the Hague?

    All in the name of currying favor and obtaining favor. Fascism with a smiley face.

  380. re: more nerve-wracking

    I talked to a doc at a meeting several years back who had been a Tomcat pilot before med school. He said the very worst was a night takeoff, because you were a little disoriented by the catapult acceleration and you were truly going into a black hole. Nose up, often in bad weather, no lights of any kind. You were just sitting in a dark barrel with no orientation of any kind except your instruments, heading AWAY from home. He said it was one lonely feeling.

    He told me that near the end of his last tour he was having a bad night trying to get back on board and had boltered a couple of times and was low on gas. His last landing he realized wasn’t going to work either and he just hauled up on the nose and stalled the plane. You are NOT supposed to do that; he said he hit like a ton of shit. Actually twenty tons of shit or so. Everybody knew what he did but nobody said a word; next time it could be them.

    Too rich for my blood, dude.

  381. Why are you guys so down on GM? Didn’t you know it was Romney’s idea.

    One of Mitt Romney’s top advisers said Saturday that President Obama’s decision to bailout Chrysler and General Motors was actually Romney’s idea.

    “[Romney’s] position on the bailout was exactly what President Obama followed. I know it infuriates them to hear that,” Eric Fehrnstrom, senior adviser to the Romney campaign, said.

    “The only economic success that President Obama has had is because he followed Mitt Romney’s advice.”

    http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/224371-romney-campaign-claims-auto-bailout-was-his-idea

  382. “Yeah. Real hypocrisy” – ET

    Exactly. Unless you’re trying to say you called out Bush for all his unnecessary air travel at taxpayers expense.

    Didn’t think so.

  383. Remember, R, Bush-the-Lesser was a National Guard pilot if my memory serves me, and they do not get the training the Navy pilots do by any measure. And yes, I don’t think he was at the top of his class and no, there is NO WAY they would let him do a carrier landing when he had never done one before and was far, far out of currency anyway.

    But my understanding was that he had been at one time qualified as a fighter pilot in the Guard, and I can tell you that, as an accomplishment, it’s plenty; it’s about all one brain can handle – on a GOOD day. That’s all from memory; I’m too busy to look it up right now.

    His father was, of course, the real fighter pilot. He saw combat and was shot down. Helluva guy. Got his own carrier named after him, (but in my opinion his greatest accomplishment was whom he married). Just my .05.

  384. FWIW, I like George the Elder more each year. A decent man I think and non-partisan enough to have struck up a good working relationship with Bill Clinton.

  385. “Exactly. Unless you’re trying to say you called out Bush for all his unnecessary air travel at taxpayers expense.

    Didn’t think so.”

    Bush landing on carrier deck when? And won his second term when? And he held out the “carrier landing” in his campaign when?

    Numbnutz, your entire comment is a non-sequitur. 🙄

    Good luck in your campaign to prevent Bush’s third term.

  386. Rutherford making fun of someone landing on the carrier deck and quoting Wiki about pilot scoring. This is rich.

    Rutherford, if you and President Neo Foodstamp are like most brothas, you don’t even know how to swim. The local municipal pool would scare you shitless. I’m going to drive to Naperville and throw your sorry ass in the deep end, then cast one of those floaties to you and watch you struggle. 😆

    You keep making fun of flight training, but you give me one thing Obama has accomplished that would make him unique in anyway? It may be Obama doesn’t even know how to drive.

    Obama is hood with a bunch of propagandists making him out as something special. This week, I finally realized Obama is without doubt nothing but a phony asshole in real life – forget the Presidency, he’d be a pretentious prick in the ice cream shop.

  387. “Bush landing on carrier deck when? And won his second term when? And he held out the “carrier landing” in his campaign when?” ET

    May 1, 2003 and Nov 2004. The only reason it wasn’t in his ads was because it turned out to be such a farce. He decided to lean on 9/11 and terror instead. So I guess what you are saying is it’s perfectly ok to waste taxpayers money flying around in jets if it causes bad PR and happens in the third year of your first term, but God forbid it be in the fourth year of your term and actually involves functions of the office.

    And if you think Romney doesn’t represent Bush’s third term, just look at where he was yesterday and who was standing next to him as he decried the President’s political use of the OBL elimination.

    Or you could just keep lobbing non sequitur accusation shells over your Maginot Line of logic and hope to hit a target eventually. Hasn’t happened yet.

  388. Ignore him, Tigre. He’s bent that we aren’t buying the lies. This bastard’s blog is on par with Fat Grannies. Take a look and judge for yourself. You’ll see. MSNBC material. 😀

    Pure, rank, pitiful propaganda for the uninformed and disenfranchised. Yawn.

  389. re: function of carrier landing by Bush

    The military LOVED Bush-the-Lesser in the same way they hated Clinton. To go to war and then have the commander-in-chief actually land on your carrier and congratulate you personally on a job well-done? The morale went out of sight; think that has no value when you are in the middle of a war?

    To my mind the cost/risk/benefit ratio was far and above, for example, Shelly’s vacations or BO’s golfing trips. What did it cost, a tank of gas for the airplane? Certainly a lot less than having Secret Service to follow a woman and two kids around in a foreign country, for example.

  390. PF, I dare say when men are under the pressure of battle, they are easily amused. I have to wonder how many of them laughed their ass off seeing George-the-lesser in a flight suit. 😆

  391. George was a pilot, but did not fly that plane. I think it was Dan Rather who got axed because of what he said in an interview about lesser Bush’s National Guard record. There were 2 Navy pilots in the plane that brought W to the carrier that day. But landing on a carrier is very dangerous, no matter who does it. It was anchored a hundred miles from San Diego at the time of this staged event.

    When my dad was in the Navy stationed on a carrier during one landing the cable snapped and whipped severing one of his fellow sailor’s head which was left rolling down the flight deck. That memory that stuck with him all his life.

  392. Several us us looked up on a now defunct blog when it first came out. Bush did fly planes and he had good ratings. We saw the photostats. The others were liberals who wanted to “get” Bush I wasn’t, but they accepted that Bush flew jets Flying a jet plane well requires some skill and training. .

    He also volunteered for Vietnam, but was turned down because the fighter in which he was proficient was being phased out.

    Something happened after that.( Maybe too many benders, or maybe he and Obama were doing Coke) Bush refused a regularly schedualed physical exam, I think. My memory is a little hazy on that. He was later grounded. The photostat was on line in 2004. Near the end, Bush put in his time before his separation, but he no longer flew.

    Dan Rather used forged documents to show favoritism got Bush his domestic assignment. It may well have been true, but Rather and his information source over played. I think a blogger proved the documents were bogus because a printer, not a typewriter made them. There was no other supporting evidence, and Rather eventually lost his job.

    Now, Dan says it was a plot. CBS executives got rid of him to protect Bush.

    Bush flew to the ship for “Mission Accomplished”, at least for part of the trip. A pilot was obviously there to do most of the work.

  393. The Obamas have spent more tax money on their trips than the Bushes did. It is unseemly in with so many people struggling to pay their bills.

    I thought their sending their dog to be an obscene waste of time, but now the trip alone may have saved the dog.

  394. Bush flew to the ship for “Mission Accomplished”, at least for part of the trip.

    James surely you don’t believe that. For starters, there is no way in hell the Secret Service would ever let him behind the throttle when he hadn’t flown since the 1970’s.

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