If Skittles Scare You, Maybe You Shouldn’t Be on Neighborhood Watch

Trayvon Martin left his Dad’s Florida home during an NBA basketball game’s halftime to get a snack at the nearby convenience store. On the way home he encountered George Zimmerman, a self appointed neighborhood watch “Captain”. George called 911 and reported Trayvon as a “suspicious” character. He told the 911 operator that he was in pursuit. The 911 operator basically told him to leave that to the police and back off. What happened next is a bit fuzzy on the details but it ended in George shooting 17 year old Trayvon in the chest and killing him. Not only is George a free man today, he was never taken into custody. There are reports that Trayvon’s corpse was tested for drugs while his shooter never was.

MSNBC’s Lawrence O’Donnell did his damnedest to make this about race. He played a garbled 911 recording for a black Florida congresswoman. The tape reportedly has Zimmerman referring to Martin as an effing coon. I didn’t hear that until the idea was planted in my head by O’Donnell. To her credit, the congresswoman did not jump on the race train, and said she could not make out what Zimmerman was saying. So let’s take the obvious racial angle (Zimmerman, white, Martin, black) out of the picture.

At its most benign, what we have here is a very dangerous version of Barney Fife and hell, at least Barney had a badge. Reportedly, Zimmerman had called 911 a good 40 times in a short time period reporting “suspicious” characters. He appears to have some sort of cop-wanna-be complex going on. From what I can see, Zimmerman may well be your run of the mill nutjob. The real villain here is the Sanford, FL police department who saw fit not to arrest Zimmerman whose self defense claim stretched credibility when the only weapons possessed by Martin were a bottle of iced tea and a box of Skittles.

I do believe that when all is said and done, Zimmerman will be arrested and tried. The bigger question is how much scrutiny will be paid to the Sanford police department and the Sanford district attorney’s office. When a man, really still just a child, can be killed simply for looking “suspicious” and nothing is done about it, the system is clearly broken.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

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385 thoughts on “If Skittles Scare You, Maybe You Shouldn’t Be on Neighborhood Watch

  1. I’ve heard a little bit of this story.

    Either a de facto public lynching has occurred, or there is much more to this then we’ve been told.

  2. Well there are a couple of factors at play here. Right out front though I agree that Zimmerman should be arrested under something other than murder one.
    Digging a little deeper though I do believe in FLA stand your ground law. Since Zimmerman admits to initiating a pursuit not connected to a known felony he is up the creek.
    I do hope (in vain sadly) that race won’t be the primary driver in this. I also hope folks don’t go out of their way to tar the dead kids life,for even if he was a felon nothing points to it being true at the time of this incident.
    Lastly I hope FLA and this law doesn’t get tanked.

  3. A boy was murdered, executed. If you listen to the 911 tapes of the neighbors calling in (not Zimmerman) you can hear the kid begging for help. The screams are hauntingly akin to the shrieks on the Nicholas Berg execution video.

    The shooter has yet to be arrested. Pathetic.

    The police are hiding behind the “stand your ground” law. The author of the law says it doesn’t apply because it has no provision for pursuing someone.

    And BTW, Zimmerman is Hispanic, not white.

  4. I was sickened by this. Incidents like these are not that uncommon anymore. At least the national spotlight and investigation MAY help.

  5. The Stand Your Ground law had a point. As I understand it, prior to its enactment, you could be prosecuted for protecting yourself by shooting someone, even if that someone was about to shoot you. Your first obligation was to flee. But this incident is a bastardization of that law, and I think the Sanford police misinterpreted Zimmerman’s actions. I heard on NPR today that the police chief is “temporarily” stepping down. We will see. I fully expect that once the smoke clears, Zimmerman will be arrested and there will be some big changes in both the law and in the Sanford police department. They told him to back off. End of sentence. There is a dead kid here. This is more than an unfortunate accident.

  6. “When a man, really still just a child, can be killed simply for looking “suspicious” and nothing is done about it, the system is clearly broken.”

    The fact that “the system” might have been abused or misapplied does not mean it’s “broken.”

  7. I wonder what would happen to a run of the mill nut job who chased me through a Sanford neighborhood (I’ve been in Sanford ~10 times in the last 14 months, often wearing a hoodie) and shot and killed me, and was still walking around un-arrested for over three weeks. Would you call him a run of the mill nut job? Or would you call him a cold blooded murderer? And of course we know in that scenario he wouldn’t be walking around free after killing a white girl.

  8. “data for Obama…” ❓

    You think he wants to read about your happy ass? He’s got enough going between sports’ picks, vacations, and campaigning. 🙄

    He’s probably got some “cop wannabe” following your melon head. 😀

  9. GypsyKat,

    I agree with you. Nobody cares about dead black kids. I’ve been saying it for years.

    Just look at our beloved liberal host.

    This is the first time Rutherford has EVER took the time to write about a gunned down black kid. And what a shock, MSNBC finds this one tantalizing.

    Of course, Rutherford will say that the story here is that there has been no arrest. 37% of all murders go with out an arrest made.

    How many black kids were murdered last night? Do you even know? Does anyone?

    Why does Rutherford only have one burner on, one pot “simmering”?

    In 2006, Detroit alone had 416 murders. Read it again. Four hundred and sixteen murders.

    But, MSNBC doesn’t really like talking about it. Sadly, either does Rutherford.

    After all, a serious look at urban violence might screw up a world view.

  10. I guess what I’m saying, is this poor kid, who seemed to be murdered in cold blood, is now about to become a political football, to boot.

    Lets look at interracial crime. According to wikipedia (although there was no citation) blacks murder whites at 18 times the rate that whites murder blacks.

    Even that is a red herring.because that is very rare too.

    The truth is, the homicide problem is black on black.

    It would be a shame if this kid becomes a smoke screen for a bunch of assholes ignoring reality.

    It is well known gang killings get a lower priority by police. While part of this is a matter of resources, I believe another reason is the nation as a whole doesn’t give a shit. I blame people like Rutherford and other self appointed vanguards of the downtrodden.

    Too cowardly to honestly reflect on the effects of liberal policy in the inner city.

  11. Why does Rutherford only have one burner on, one pot “simmering”?

    I guess what I’m saying, is this poor kid, who seemed to be murdered in cold blood, is now about to become a political football, to boot.

    Rabbit, sometimes you just seem to be itching for a fight. If I had written one of my typical outraged posts about a black kid deemed worthless by the power structure, I would have gotten your race card argument and you would have been all over me. I deliberately took a moderate view on this one.

    First, we don’t know what went down. If we take race out of it (an Hispanic named Zimmerman … that’s a new one) what person in possession of his senses tracks down a total stranger and kills him? (GypsyKat, that’s why I call Zimmerman a nutjob. From what we know this dude wanted to play cop. He’s friggin crazy.) So as far as the altercation between Martin and Zimmerman, we have to assume until we learn more that Zimmerman’s head was not screwed on straight and he was playing cop.

    Rabbit, I deliberately mentioned Lawrence O’Donnell to testify to EXACTLY what you said … the kid HAS become a political football. To the point that folks are hearing hidden messages in the 911 tapes so they can make this a “hate crime”.

    The more we learn about this the worse the Sanford police look. Heck, we already know Zimmerman is f*cked up. That’s not even worth writing about. What’s worth writing about is a system that lets the man remain free.

    Do you know the boy’s body was kept at the morgue for THREE DAYS before next of kin were notified? The child’s father didn’t know where his kid was for three f*cking days.

    So, in closing, Rabbit, take your outrage at my racial perspectives and shove ’em. This isn’t an article on black on black crime. This is not an opportunity for me to write about dysfunction in the inner city. This is about (as far as I know) a middle class community in which some paranoid dude killed an innocent kid and the cops let him walk. That’s what the discussion should be about.

  12. The fact that “the system” might have been abused or misapplied does not mean it’s “broken.”

    Tigre, Sanford’s history of properly prosecuting crimes against blacks ain’t very good. Believe me, in Sanford, the system is broken.

  13. Now, to address GypsyKat … let’s get real. If a black dude “stood his ground” and shot a white guy (or even an Hispanic guy) in the manner that this case went down, the dude would have been booked so fast your head would spin. So I agree with you.

    It wasn’t my intention to deny the racial realities of the situation. But I wanted to divorce race from the discussion simply to prove that outside of any racial context, this incident still stinks to high heaven.

  14. Fakename, I’ve heard conflicting stories about this. What I heard from one of the Martin family attorneys is that Zimmerman’s defense is self-defense, not the stand your ground law, the two apparently being different. I believe in self defense, the person actually attacks you and you shoot him defending yourself. With “stand your ground” you don’t have to wait for the actual attack.

    From what I heard in news reports, states with stand your ground (including Rabbit’s beloved Michigan) have lower violent crime rates but higher “justifiable homicide” rates.

    Once again, it’s that conservative love of retro. This time it ain’t a longing for the 1950’s … it’s a longing for the Wild West. 😐

  15. “Once again, it’s that conservative love of retro. This time it ain’t a longing for the 1950′s … it’s a longing for the Wild West.”

    This makes no sense.

  16. “Tigre, Sanford’s history of properly prosecuting crimes against blacks ain’t very good. Believe me, in Sanford, the system is broken.”

    I don’t have a clue, and I don’t know what you’ve read. But that’s my point.

  17. Tigre, what I’ve read is here: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501363_162-57403027/history-of-racial-tension-for-fla-city-and-blacks/ and has been discussed in many other newscasts.

    As for my Wild West comment, I’m really beginning to worry about your comprehension skills. When folks can legally shoot anyone the deem a threat (which is the essence of the stand your ground law) we are back in the days of the Wild West. No liberal would ever have supported that law. It is pure conservative, NRA-backed macho swagger that creates a whole new generation of vigilantes.

  18. ”When folks can legally shoot anyone the deem a threat (which is the essence of the stand your ground law) we are back in the days of the Wild West.” -R

    It is not the essence of the law. And it doesn’t mean that “you don’t have to wait for the actual attack” like you said earlier. It means that you don’t have to run. In states that don’t have the law if you’re threatened and you can get away, then your first obligation is to run.

  19. Muffy, I see a distinction without a difference. If you don’t have to run, that means you don’t have to wait for the dude to actually take a shot at you … you can shoot him first. If his hand is in his pocket and you don’t know what’s in his pocket, you don’t have to run, you can shoot him because you perceive a threat.

    From what I understand, there is so much wiggle room in this legislation that misperceptions or misunderstandings can easily turn into shootings.

  20. R I like the post overall since I get the vibe you did indeed try to open a discussion and present a moderate case.
    You’re starting to lose me though as you start shoveling away the ground around your feet.
    Stand your ground is the castle law on a small dose of steroids. Compare it to states like MA that literally demand you run,even from inside your own home!
    Statistics are a fickle thing and when applied to super specifics can be truly unusable. That said I doubt there are no cases of SYG/castle where a person of color has benefited.

  21. One interesting tangent of this story is the hoodie talk. The UK has been grappling with the hoodie for years as well. So much so that there are indeed council level rules banning hoodie wearing in shopping centres and schools etc.
    Perceptions can be dangerous.
    Stateside Geraldo Rivera makes his case here

  22. Alfie, thanks for the link.

    This from the statute: if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony. (bolding by me)

    Could someone (maybe Tigre or BiW if he ever bothers to show up again) help me with the bolded language? The line already covers protecting yourself, or someone else so what is left for the “commission of a forcible felony”? Does this mean if you see someone breaking into someone else’s house, you can shoot him?

  23. The hoodie changes things a bit, doesn’t it? It did for me. Almost imperceptibly, but it did. Of course instantly my mind goes to the women who’ve endured having their virtue questioned because of what they were wearing when they were raped. Yet the hoodie is troubling.

    Thanks for the links, Alfie.

    “From what I understand, there is so much wiggle room in this legislation that misperceptions or misunderstandings can easily turn into shootings.”

    I agree with that.

    “What’s worth writing about is a system that lets the man remain free.”

    If we’re talking about a killer not being pursued, we can include the killers of thousands of kids who were dying horrendous deaths at the very moment that their parents were being told that they had to wait 48 hours to file a missing person’s report. Before Amber’s Law it was the parents who organized their friends for the initial search efforts. Sex offenders didn’t have to register before Megan’s Law.

    Have you ever heard of Henry Lee Lucas? That story that took 25+ years to tell itself and the victim’s parents dedicated their lives to diminishing the chances of it ever happening again so easily.

    Every day parents are being told that their honor student teenage daughter probably ran away. The first question these parents are asked is could your daughter have been dating someone without your knowing. Dead prostitutes all named Jane whose killers were never pursued.

    Zimmerman is a delusional lawbreaker who in the past expressed his desire to be a police officer. (For some reason I just thought of Jared Laughner.)

  24. OK, section 776.08 defines forcible felony and confirms my suspicion. If you see someone breaking into someone else’s house, you can shoot him. Not cool. Like I said before …. the Wild Wild West.

    776.08 Forcible felony.—“Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual. Highlighting by me.

  25. How is it possible that this young man laid in the morgue for 3 days? I understand that his phone wasn’t even checked so that tells me one aspect of the story. But isn’t the morgue one of the first places you check?

  26. Alfie I guess I’m out of touch with current gangsta fashion. Is asshat Geraldo really saying that wearing a jacket with a hood on it means you’re dangerous? That’s equivalent to wearing gang colors or sporting gang tattoos?

    Thugs do all kinds of things to disguise themselves …. like wear sunglasses. Does that mean anyone wearing sunglasses is now a suspect?

    The woman wearing a short skirt and a blouse with two top blouse buttons open deserves to be raped because it “causes a response”.

    Geraldo needs to go back to searching through Al Capone’s vault. 😐

  27. For that matter, does Geraldo REALLY think the hoodie set this psycho off? The man has called 911 like it’s the American Idol voting number because he sees suspicious characters. They all were wearing hoodies?

    How do we know Trayvon had the hood up? Since Zimmerman identified him as black, I would guess he got a good look at his head. Geraldo is a legend in his own mind.

  28. @R et al I think everyone agrees Zimmerman broke the law in this matter and that the SYG law isn’t the one he broke nor one that benefits him.
    @R specifically…I disagree with your take on it. I don’t live in a SYG state (nor a castle rule one) but if you dig a little deeper into the lawbooks of the Sunshine State you’ll see they have grades of burglary. Now I know a state that can’t properly punch out a paper chad may very well be confused what is reasonable in a given incident but I think on a county by county basis there is reason to believe that if: you SYG for someone else’s dwelling,shot a person that otherwise is a burglary 3 candidate,meaning unarmed and nobody home…ya be screwed if you cap him/her.

  29. Alfie I guess I’m out of touch with current gangsta fashion
    Agreed, as much in the other thread you confessed to having zero street cred.
    R you are surely smart enough to at least sense the logic of a number of profiling skills/factors and further appreciate how pop cultures embrace of them can have very grave outcomes for individuals and society.
    I’ve met guys of color totally gangsta’ed out and they were polite and helpful. I’ve also met waaaaay too many white cracker wannabe hip hop tools that have needed and received a smack up side their head. Suburban douches that would piss their pants if you dropped them in the hood but who buy into the false commercialized notion that gawdy gold chains,pimped rides and smacking yo ‘ho is the way to be keepin it real homie. SMACK!!!!!
    Thing is though profile “science” is proven more right contrary to the CPD meets the Harvard Professor scandal may dictate.
    hoodies are an issue but I’m not one to advocate their abolishment,just one to point out some obvious issues. Every era has a clash of whatever you call it when culture and crime collide.
    Zoot suits,mods,hippies and gangsta are just some to reflect on.

    On the tangent that has been raised. I don’t buy into how a woman is dressed = anything goes/asking for it. On the flip side I don’t get “slut walks” either. Strikes me as counter productive. Any female input on those? Yes that is a serious question.

  30. Rutherford, I like the way you presented the case however my one question is this incident happened on Feb. 26 so why is it just now hitting the news?

    The “hoodie” aspect is a piece of crock! It’s like the concept of wearing a white T-shirt which gangs use as a symbol since they aren’t supposed to show their colors in public.

    If a cop had been the one shooting, he/her would have been put on immediate suspension and told “not to leave town”.

    It is a case of cold blooded murder.

  31. “When folks can legally shoot anyone the deem a threat (which is the essence of the stand your ground law) we are back in the days of the Wild West.”

    I jumped down without looking at the comments, but let me say this: you’re talking out of your MSNBC ass again, R. It’s both your reading and writing comprehension skills that are questionable because insist on relying on the furor to dictate your understanding rather than reasoned analysis.

    The statute modifies (presumably common law) self-defense that does not amount to “shoot anyone you think is a threat.”

    And frankly, it doesn’t seem to be a defense that’s available or responsible in this instance.

    I have little doubt that your ability to be so easily manipulated by the MSNBC and politically motivated furor would have blowing in an entirely different direction if there were (1) a fallback racial component, and (2) the prior statutory framework were blamed for the result.

    Just a guess. 🙄

  32. Incidentally R, the standard of “reasonable [anything, e.g. threat of. . .] is an objective, not subjective standard. It’s not shoot at will so long as you claim to feel threatened.

  33. Alfie,

    Slut walks are as wrongheaded as the Hoodie march.

    With what I know so far I believe that Zimmerman was looking for a victim and this young man fit what Zimmerman was looking for – a hoodlum. I think Trayvon could have been white and didn’t need to be wearing a hoodie, as long as he fit what Zimmerman was looking for. It’s impossible to know everything that went into Zimmerman’s selection. The hoody just fits in a twisted logical way.

  34. “Is asshat Geraldo really saying that wearing a jacket with a hood on it means you’re dangerous? ”

    Damn. I’m going to get capped. I walk to the pub all the time with a hoodie on. It keeps my fucking head warm. I didn’t realize I was sending a message that I was a dangerous thug.

  35. Tigre I’ve gone to the trouble of reading the statute and highlighting the parts that bother me. Address my concern and stop your MSNBC asshattery.

    You’ve clearly never taught law cos you suck at explaining it.

  36. Oh my God. look at Tigre’s link. MSNBC is blaming Gingrich et al, for the shooting.

    And the assault by liberals on the 1st amendment begins. How many Reichstag Fires can you guys start?

    While this killing seems sickening, as from what I can tell, the victim looks like a good kid, (not that it should matter, the little dude was unarmed) why is this shooting “the” story?

    Why did Rutherford write about it? After all, the simple fact that Rutherford wrote about this killing and not the thousands of other ones, sends a message that this one represents something unique.

    I just don’t get it.

  37. R, is it the fact that the killer didn’t get arrested yet? The wrong interpretation of the law? It was on MSNBC? Or the law itself that made you write about this kid?

    I probably shouldn’t have responded the way I did. I guess I’m guilty of the same politicization i’m bitching about.

    i just didn’t trust Rutherfrord. He always has some angle or agenda. MSNBC certainly does.

  38. Rabbitt, it’s Loughner all over again.

    R, quit being such a tool. What is it you would like to know since I just jumped on the board after having the temerity to ask what “wild west” means? Seriously. “Reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm. . .” means it has to be “reasonable.” Why’s it so fucking hard to understand that that doesn’t mean “shoot anyone you think is a threat?”

  39. The difference with the Loughner shooting was in that case, the left was temporarily successful shutting down free speech….at least for about 24 hours.

  40. And R wants me to not talk about his MSNBC bullshit when he writes this:

    “No liberal would ever have supported that law. It is pure conservative, NRA-backed macho swagger that creates a whole new generation of vigilantes.”

    Yeah. Creates a whole new generation of vigilantes [that kill little black kids that could be Obama’s children because they’re racist].”

    No agendas there. . . 🙄

  41. Rabbit, I wrote it for two reasons. First, I wanted to point out that stripping away the obvious racial angle you’ve still got a very f*cked up situation where an overbroad law allows Barney Fife to think he has way too much power.

    Second, the incompetence or corruption that allows a police department and prosecutor to allow this man to remain free.

    I don’t blame Gingrich (yet). 😉

  42. I get it, now. I was too busy to get a handle on it. I aint too bright.

    They trying to use this shooting as evidence that people shouldn’t be able to obtain conceal permits.

    They’ve been waiting for this for a long time. This way, data or rational discussion can be skirted and they can surf the wave of raw emotion all the way to the legislative branches through out the nation.

    You can’t shoot someone just because they are armed and acting odd. WTF?

    This has nothing to do with law.

    There has got to be some other facts to this case. How can this Zimmerman cat be free?

  43. Rutherford is making the case that because the law seems to have been improperly enforced in this one instance (again…if we even have the facts), the law must be repealed.

    One would expect Rutherford would show a pattern of the law constantly being enforced the wrong way. Basically, a long list of innocent people murdered by people with concealed weapon permits due to stand your ground/self defense. But, I guess MSNBC hasn’t come up with numerous examples.

    Yet, when you research who is being murdered, you see pretty much the following.

    Family members killing one another.
    Gang bangers killing one another (with illegal guns).
    And blacks murdering whites. wayyyyyyyyy more then whites murdering blacks (with illegal guns)

    The data brings to light a world in which it would make sense for law abiding citizens to arm themselves. And that sucks for Rutherford/MSNBC.

    So, this killing is pay dirt to them.

  44. muff –
    “With what I know so far I believe that Zimmerman was looking for a victim and this young man fit what Zimmerman was looking for – a hoodlum. I think Trayvon could have been white and didn’t need to be wearing a hoodie, as long as he fit what Zimmerman was looking for. It’s impossible to know everything that went into Zimmerman’s selection. The hoody just fits in a twisted logical way.”

    I don’t think we have anywhere near the facts to make a complete judgment. The last I was able to rustle up was that Zimm said Martin had attacked him and was beating him in the face, a story backed up by a bystander witness. May be totally bogus; in any event IMHO The Zimm has NO business fu*king around confronting people if he is armed or otherwise, unless it is HIS castle, because when you pull your piece you have to pull it blazing. He has zero business doing shit like that were he might have to pull it.

  45. This struck me as funny:

    An organized group of atheists and some of the biggest voices from their movement will hold Reason Rally on The National Mall this weekend to raise awareness for their cause and to encourage members of Congress to respect their views. [emphasis mine]

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/atheists-holding-reason-rally-washington-dc-weekend-193419793.html

    This is officially a religion with this “gathering” in Washington. Make no mistake, this has now a “belief system” with organization and “views”. And notice the Westboro Baptist Church is going to be there to protest. There is no better comedy than reality sometimes.

    Rutherford, are you signed up? 🙂

    Hmmmmm. I wonder what would happen if God intervened?

    😀 Oh my, my, my…

  46. Alfie, re: slut walks

    I’m not exactly sure what you are referring to as “slut” walks. There is a physical difference in the structure and the angle of the pelvis of men and women. The female pelvis is usually more delicate than, wider than, and not as high as the male pelvis. The angle of the female pubic arch is wide and round. The female sacrum is wider than the male’s, and the iliac bone is flatter. Because of the angle a woman’s legs tend to rotate outward sometimes referred to as a “duck” walk. You can determine the angle when a woman is standing. If her toes turn out she will be more apt to mimic what you refer to as a “slut” walk. Walking in high heels will create that look also. This is not true of all women but is for the majority

  47. I own several hoodies, even a black one. When it’s cold or the wind is blowing, I will wear it as designed. If that makes me look like a “hoodlum”, maybe that is what society has taught us. Why else would we call anyone that?

    Do you remember Pavlov’s experiments? It is the conditioning we have gone through that gives us the perceptions we hold. Stereotypes only exist because those have been reinforced over and over in our lives. We like to label people and categorize them. It gives us a “power” over them. We learn this from our family and peers. When the media acknowledges them, they become cemented in our collective psyches. They become very hard to overcome. It is the same way racism foments.

    The “Wild West” is when everyone takes “the law” into their own hands. That goes for making the rules, as well as interpreting and enforcing them. The laws “on the books” that are vague are always subject to interpretation. Rulings establish precedents that are used in future enforcement. When the only authority is your own conscience, then those established stereotypes cloud our judgement. In fear we react first. In fear we trust.

    We now have an entire nation borne of fear. That fear is reinforced by our government, institutions, and the media. Many of us are armed. It isn’t going to get any safer. More laws won’t save us. More government control won’t save us. More guns won’t save us.

    We are definitely going back to the Wild West. 👿

    But not to fear, martial law is just around the corner…

  48. Iowa is debating a stand your ground law now. A black man (I use his race because we are all becoming racialists.) was charged for shooting at someone who was trying to steal his car, I think. He was charged, and aquitted, but he lost his job and apartment during his legal struggle. The law is proposed to prevent future miscarriages.

    It has nothing to do with folks who pursue others.

    None of us knows what happened. We are listening to hearsay from people with competing agendas. How can we discuss the murder with what we know now?

    I do know the usual assortment of race baiters is turning a tragedy into a lynching.

    Our computer is still sick but functioning at times.

  49. @ Rutherford ET is right in fact the FL statutes opens with the Common Law of England,see 775.01.
    @ Raji…I was referring to a quasi political statement/movement that I believe originated in Toronto Canada. They were called “Slut Walks” and were meant to highlight violence against women issues. Its genesis in Toronto was tied directly to a an issue involving some unfortunate statements from a constable at a public meeting if I recall correctly. The organizers tried to make a movement out of them,I know they tried to have one in the Boston MA area.
    pick a page ala google if you like
    http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=Slut+Walk&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
    @ Pools do you deny there is an element that intentionally use hoodies for a message reason as opposed to a weather issue?

  50. Yes, it’s speculation.

    I think Geraldo’s point was that hoodies have bad PR. Concealment is one of the reasons for wearing them.

    No one is talking about wearing hoodies when it’s cold.

  51. @ Alfie, I learn something everyday 😳
    And I thought you wanted a literal interpretation which apparently Rabbit enjoyed 😆

  52. Alfie, by now I should know to google any question you ask. I think about “slut walks” about what I thought of “bra burning”. The only thing achieved during that episode was the destruction of mammary tissue 😉

  53. @ Pools do you deny there is an element that intentionally use hoodies for a message reason as opposed to a weather issue?

    No, not at all. Clothing’s very design is to conceal.

  54. I see Farrakhan and the Black Panthers are using violent rhetoric.

    I’m not talking the fictitious kind MSNBC-RUTHERFORD use when they see an opportunity to stifle free speech.

    I’m talking real violence.

    My Gran Pappy never backed down to them.

    He owned a party store and a bar (they were in the same building, he lived in a loft above) in a black neighborhood deep in Detroit.

    I can remember sitting in the party store helping him sell single cigarettes to his black customers. I must have been around 7 years old.

    His black customers both feared and loved him.

    According to Machiavelli, very few men can pull this off. My Grandpa did.

    When the Panthers told him to write “Soul Brother” on his shop window in order to be skipped over by looters, he told them to go get fucked.

    He fought murderous racist blacks for 3 nights, only returning to his nervous wife and kids when he needed more ammunition. I always wonder if he killed anyone that night?

    At one point during the riot, the National Guard used his building as a command post.

    My Grandpa came to this country when he was 7 years old. He owned a pool hall by 15 during a time when 15 year olds weren’t even allowed in pool halls.

    These race mongers like Jackson and Farrakhan are lucky he aint around anymore. Toughest Lithuanian motherfucker that ever lived, far as I’m concerned. 9 and 0 as a professional boxer, to boot.

    Maybe Rutherford will get to see some more “wild west” shit this hot summer. I think so, if his race baiting charlatans keep talking shit.

    By the way, on the 3rd night, all the business owners who capitulated with “Soul Brother” got looted anyways.

    Nobody touched my Grandpa’s store.

    He was racist. no doubt about it. But he also had black women wailing at his funeral. Race wars are weird like that.

  55. “The only thing achieved during that episode was the destruction of mammary tissue” -Raji

    oh yeah. don’t stop now, Raji

  56. No one is talking about wearing hoodies when it’s cold.

    If the wind is blowing, I think they are okay, even in warm weather for me. In some places people wear hoodies to keep the sun off their ears and necks. Many joggers wear them. It is not uncommon.

    But aside from hoodies and to clothes in general…

    Some people say the clothes make the man.

    We portray an image to the public. Some tattoo and pierce their flesh, others wear a look. We often fit several groups, depending on how many circles we’re in, ie: work, family, school, friends.

    Marketing has taken style from the back street and put it on main street. Often to the extreme. We clothe to define ourselves or our wannabes. It’s all about image.

    The illusion of wealth, the illusion of tough, the illusion of smart, the illusion of cool, the illusion of skinny… :wink:.

  57. Oh my God. look at Tigre’s link. MSNBC is blaming Gingrich et al, for the shooting.

    LOL … I’m watching Tigre’s story appearing on Breitbart TV of all places.

    Newt’s idiocy about thinking that he understands the work ethic of the hood and the only way kids in the hood want to make money (i.e. crime) made news way before Trayvon Martin … and insulted a good number of black people in the process. Newt’s an arrogant prick who is not nearly as smart as he thinks he is. But I seriously doubt Zimmerman has ever heard a word Gingrich has said. I don’t get the feeling Z is terribly bright.

    Santorum’s remark about making black people’s lives easier was a cheap shot by Karen. I heard that remark in context and if I remember it correctly Santorum was saying he wants to give ALL people opportunity. Unfortunately, Santorum didn’t stick to his message when challenged and said that he got tongue tied and said “bla people”. WTF?

    Rush is not worth talking about.

    So bottom line, UNLIKE my post, the liberal pundits are jumping all over this. They see it as part and parcel of a mood and an ethic being advocated by conservatives in this country, i.e. guns for everybody, and blacks are lazy and dangerous and not to be trusted (a sentiment some on this very board have come very close to advocating 😦 ).

  58. So why is it an overboard law R?

    Are you saying that this guy shot the kid because of the law?

    I didn’t say overboard … I said overbroad (maybe I mistyped it the first time). Damn Tigre, read comments 29 and 31 and if you still don’t understand it, read them again. I can’t make it any clearer. Forcible felony can be burglary. So if Z saw some dude about to break into a house presumably to steal something, he could shoot him under SYG. If I’m wrong, explain to me why. As I said earlier, you’re good with the MSNBC barbs but not very good at explaining the law. Have you actually read the statute that Alfie provided a link to?

    The guy shot the kid for who knows what reason. He’s a racist. He’s a self-deluded Barney Fife. I don’t know why he shot the kid. BUT we all exist in a land ruled by law. Laws define the boundaries of our behavior. Bad laws allow us to get away with bad behavior. SYG as applied in Florida is too damn fuzzy for my taste. And the issue here is not whether Z shot the kid because he thought he could get away with it under SYG. The issue is did the cops let the guy go scot-free because THEY thought he could get away with it under SYG?

    Can you do me a favor for once Tigre and discuss this case without being a sensitive white guy? 😉

  59. The data brings to light a world in which it would make sense for law abiding citizens to arm themselves. And that sucks for Rutherford/MSNBC.

    Your solution is f*cked up beyond belief Rabbit.

    Law enforcement is for cops. Period. End of story.

    If that part is broken, you FIX it. You don’t arm the citizenry to “protect” themselves. That is bullsh*t. If medical malpractice suddenly went through the roof would you advocate for the Rabbit to start operating on his friends? No. You’d demand reforms within the medical community.

    If cops can’t get the job done to keep people safe, f*cking fix it.

    Guns for civilians are for two legit reasons: hunting and protection against a potentially hostile government (the entire reason for the 2nd amendment). And quite frankly, in America the likelihood of needing a gun to protect yourself from Obama’s army is highly unlikely.

    Don’t tell me everybody has to carry because the cops can’t keep the peace. I ain’t buying what your selling.

  60. LOL Poolman regarding the atheist rally, I’m fully on board with you. I’ve always considered atheism as much a religion as any of the others. It’s one reason I hesitate to identify as that.

  61. These race mongers like Jackson and Farrakhan

    Sorry I call BS. Jackson (assuming you meant Jesse Jackson), with perhaps the exception of “Hymie-town” has never used rhetoric on a par with Farrakhan. Not fair to lump them together at all.

  62. Regarding 72, if I look real hard at Joe Scarborough and Willie Geist of “Morning Joe” on MSNBC, they resemble Beavis and Butthead.

    On a side note, it is amazing to me that the creator of Beavis and Butthead created the far superior “King of the Hill”.

  63. R, the police are minutes away when you have seconds to react. Remember that.

    By the by, had we had a neighborhood watch in my old neighborhood in Hawaii, they likely would have spooked the 2 black guys that broke into my home. Said neighborhood watch would have been handy in calling the cops as well as I chased the two pricks for half a mile barefoot swinging a metal baseball bat. Needless to say, had I had my guns with me, the recidivism rate for home invasion would have declined that evening.

  64. Newsbusters has links to liberal attempts to turn this tragedy into political gain as they did after the Arizona shooting. Some of them have no shame.

    I wonder if George Zimmerman and Treyvon Martin knew each other. Martin was visiting his father’s house. Martin was patroling his neighborhood. If Martin had been around before, they might have met. If so did they dislike each other?

    Zimmerman has been evicted from his home, and the community college he attends asked him not to return until this blows over. He hasn’t even been charged yet, though probably he should be. He has been found guilty without a trial.

    Hoodies and loose clothes are a form of uniform. So are baseball caps. People notice these things and profile. Our children still tease me because when we were in a mall years ago, a security guard came up to me and said “sir, I’ll have to ask that you not wear your cap at that angle.” My cap had been tipped slightly to the left, and it was a gang sign.

    Jessie Jackson profiled too. He said when he walked on the street late at night and heard footsteps behind him, he hoped the feet belonged to a white man. He later recanted after criticism.

    I dentist on a base where I served heard someone breaking into his home. The dentist took his 3006 aimed it at the door, and hid behind the couch. The bad guy gave up and left. We asked “Would you have shot?” “Twice.” “Then, I would have dragged him into the living room.”

    You DO arm the citizenry to protect themselves. A neighbor was looking for a place to put up his deer blind and stood in an abandoned mobile him. Some pickups parked outside and he watched an exchange of packages. The men all wore black suits.

    Some one saw our neighbor and fired a shot near his knees. He told him he had best not tell what he had seen or they would finish him off.

    Our neighbor called the sheriff. The sheriff told him to carry a gun for awhile because that part of the county was so isolated, there was no way anyone could help him in time.

    We helped a friend through a divorce. Her ex husband’s associates who made and sold drugs. After three mysterious “suicides” in the county and an unlighted pickup which parked in front of our house at 1AM. I kept a loaded shot gun near our front door.

  65. Rutherford, my Granpa’s entire career, house and belongings would have been razed to the ground had he took your approach about self defense. Hell, maybe my Dad would have died too.

    You will never understand. You’ve never been expected to physically defend yourself, not alone your family.

    Ever been caught in a riot? I have. Ever wonder if your house is going to burn? I have.

    Rely on the police, he says. Ha.

  66. Too bad Captain Heartattack isn’t around to apologize for the obvious- and predicted- u turn on Egyptian Presidential politics. I’m sure the mental gymnastics that would ensue would be a TON of fun…

    CAIRO (Reuters)The Muslim Brotherhood might make a policy U-turn and contest May’s presidential election, senior members said on Wednesday, as the group had yet to see a name among the declared candidates it was prepared to back.

    The Brotherhood, which dominated the first parliamentary vote after Hosni Mubarak’s ouster last year, had said it would not run in what is billed as Egypt’s first free and fair presidential race. The first round of voting is on May 23-24.

    The group instead said it would endorse one of the other candidates running. Analysts said the Brotherhood did not want to run to avoid alienating those in the electorate who are wary about Islamists sweeping the new political scene.

    But the Brotherhood has yet to declare support for any of the candidates who have lined up so far and who include Amr Moussa, a former Arab League chief who describes himself as a liberal nationalist, and Abdel Moneim Abol Fotoh, who was expelled from the Brotherhood when he defied the ban on running.

    “The Brotherhood might choose to back one of its own as a presidential candidate for Egypt given the lack of choices,” Medhat Hadad, a member of the group’s Shura Council which decides on policy, told Reuters.

    “Of those who applied already, the Brotherhood has not found a presidential candidate it is willing to support,” he said.

  67. @ Rutherford I know I’ve said this before about other comments in the past.
    #77 REALLY saddens me.
    Rutherford you are so wrong on it man! I won’t address the straw man red herring or whatever it is of your medical parallel.

    The police ask for civic involvement and although those in urban areas especially cringe at gun ownership and use the lame vigilanteism scare to support them they universally want citizen involvement.
    Every cop I know,and I know a plenty, advise citizens to be prepared to protect their life and property. They want this in conjunction with a citizenry that doesn’t buy “Stop Snitchin'” tee shirts and throw shit at them when they are investigating a crime be it Park Ave.,a trailer park or Compton.
    The system you want fixed is the one that requires concerned citizens,armed citizens and laws like Stand Your Ground. All too often people take freedom and citizenship for granted. Be it recycling,voting,taxes or neighborhood watch stuff….
    Society requires participation in society not capitulation to a nanny or leaving the grid entirely.

  68. One: I don’t see much difference between “self-defense” and SYG, other than I was under the impression that self-defense gave you the right to defend yourself in your own home and SYG meant you can do it anywhere. At least that’s how I believe it was supposed to be. But if it’s true that you can react with deadly force when you see someone breaking into someone else’s home, then that needs some tweaking. But I have no problem with the idea that if you see someone else beating a total stranger in the street, that you can ask them to stop–then shoot them. You can be in fear of your own life, but you can also be in fear for the lives of others. I realize there is a lot of wiggle room there, and given the judgement of many gun owners…well…

  69. Two: The person who was in fear for his life was Trayvon Martin. When you are minding your own business, walking down the street, unarmed, and you are stalked and confronted by a person with a gun? Zimmerman confronted Martin, against the instructions of the police, and when Martin punched him, he used that to say he was in fear for his life and shot the kid. I don’t think you get to use SYG when you created a confrontation, then used it as an excuse to kill someone. The misinterpretation of the SYG law by the police is more unforgivable to me.

  70. Three. The governor has appointed a special prosecutor to investigate. She is normally the State Attorney for a 3-county area which includes Jacksonville. The governor also created a task force to study the SYG law, which will be headed by the Lt. Governor, who for what this is worth, is a black female Navy vet. The task force will not begin its work until the special prosecutor is done with hers. I have to say that when I hear the words “task force”, I roll my eyes. But perhaps against all odds, they will come up with something meaningful.

  71. R, this is all I’m gonna say about your distracting “observations” about a law your MSNBC people offer of the right’s culpability.

    AS I SAID, I just jumped into the conversation after being tide down for several days with work. I don’t know what the fuck the law has to do with this case. I haven’t been following it. I know what you’ve said. I don’t know what the investigators said about why this guy wasn’t arrested. I did hear it that the SYG law had not been held out there as a defense in this case.

    Now, does it occur to you that I don’t practice law in Florida, am not a criminal defense lawyer, and you are just as cable of reading the same text as I am? What is it you want me to add?

    Yes, there’s often more to statutory construction than the text itself. You can look it up if you care. I don’t care. I am neither a proponent nor critic of this law I hadn’t even heard of until referenced here.

    Suffice it to say, your comments about the Macho-NRA law blah, blah, blah tell what your motive is. Whatever your criticisms the breadth of the statute linked to the topic. They’re part of your MSNBC narrative. I won’t play along.

    You can stick your “sensitive white guy” comment and stick it up your ass. I pray no one gets lynched — Sharpton’s involved again. The racial war being whipped up by Sharpton, Jackson, Farrakhan and YOUR Messiah are disgusting as hell. And I’m Sure you’ll cheer ’em on. . . 🙄

  72. Well, I suppose Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Louis Farrakan and Barack Obama will now apologize to Zimmerman. Tell me R, would this not be the SECOND time Obama has mouthed off half-cocked? Who’s acting”stupidly” now?

    ORLANDO – A witness we haven’t heard from before paints a much different picture than we’ve seen so far of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and killed.

    The night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it all.

    Our sister station, FOX 35 in Orlando, has spoken to that witness.

    What Sanford Police investigators have in the folder, they put together on the killing of Trayvon Martin few know about.

    The file now sits in the hands of the state attorney. Now that file is just weeks away from being opened to a grand jury.

    It shows more now about why police believed that night that George Zimmerman shouldn’t have gone to jail.

    Zimmerman called 911 and told dispatchers he was following a teen. The dispatcher told Zimmerman not to.

    And from that moment to the shooting, details are few.

    But one man’s testimony could be key for the police.

    “The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: ‘help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911,” he said.

    Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.

    The witness only wanted to be identified as “John,” and didn’t not want to be shown on camera.

    His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman’s claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.

    “When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point,” John said.

    Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen.

    Sanford police say Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the shooting.

  73. Tigre, if you don’t know “what the fuck the law has to do with this case”, then I suggest you jump out the same way you jumped in. The most benign interpretation is that the police claim they did not believe they had a right to arrest Zimmerman because of the law. The law has everything to do with it.
    Gorilla, thank God we now have all the facts…from Fox News. They are so much more reliable and unbiased than, say, MSNBC. I don’t watch either. I get news from CBS, NPR,and my local newspaper. That said, I do wish that Sharpton would come down with a permanent case of laryngitis. If there is a racial flame to be fanned, he’s there with gasoline.

  74. You know, what’s particularly bad about this is that the race baiters have been working overtime to fire up racial tensions. How do you turn this off if this media report is confirmed? How are the “black leaders” who have been stoking racial rage and general hate and discontent going to back this from the ledge?

    R?

  75. ” Law enforcement is for cops. Period. End of story. ” – R

    In R’s world, nobody helps the guy lying in the middle of the road. No one defends the guy being carjacked at the gas station. No one certainly says anything about the flash mob attack on people leaving a county fair, their only failing being that they were white. R, you live in a very depressing world, one that holds no one accountable, most importantly, themselves. You idiots on the left go on and on about how it takes a village. What rubbish. It should read more along the lines of it takes the fleecing of a village and the privilege of a few to dictate norms- more like whims- that support a certain powerbase.

    It amazes me how you can write this stuff and not have an over-riding sense of shame for abdicating your responsibility as a human to act. You attempt to masquerade this failing with the weak excuse that human responsibility should be the role of some government entity, so that you can be absolved of the failings that you know will come. Helping people can be hard work, but you would rather not do it, however, you don’t want to step off of the high horse because there is power there.

    Do you ever question why it is shown time and again that conservatives are overwhelmingly more generous with their time and money than liberals ever are.
    Self-defense is not the responsibility of the police. It is your responsibility.

    You think those bars on the windows is to keep the bad man out, but they are really to keep the weak man in.

  76. Four: On the value of personal experience. This means you, Rabbit. Detroit, blah,blah, blah. Well, I used to live in New Orleans, and one day I heard gunshots. I peeked out the window and there was a guy walking down the street in his underwear, cradling a little white dog in his arms who was bleeding, and in one his hands he had a handgun. Word traveled up and down the street about what had happened. Some people on bicycles rode by this guy’s house and the dog barked at them, so they shot it. The guy was taking his dog to the vet, but if he had encountered the people who shot his dog…Not one person on my street called the police. Not one. We hoped he found the people on the bicycles.
    But to exrtrapolate that experience to the present incident is arrogant, and immaterial really.

  77. This is looking more like the Duke La Crosse players, the Olympic “shooter” and Tyanna Brawley. Zimmerman may be as guiltly as sin, and maybe the demonstrations helped right an injustice by forcing authorities to do more than a cursory investigation, but this is too much. Everyone is paying attention, now. Let the investigation continue.

    Some liberals are feeding on the blood of Baker for a political agenda. They don’t care about him or his family. They want to use this to destroy the right and a law they don’t like. They have tried before and failed, but they keep hoping that maybe this will be the time.

    In another time or place they would be wearing robes and burning crosses.

    “How do you turn this off…?” You don’t if you can energize black anger during the next election.

  78. Reporters for a BBC documentary interviewed women who were in the earl part of the Egyptian revolution. They feel betrayed. Conditions for them are worse than before.

  79. I was talking about an incident that left more then 40 people dead (unofficially maybe hundreds) that had a lasting impact on my family and community.

    Racial division defines my community. I live in the most segregated community in America.

    It was a reminder of what can happen if the flames of irrational racial division are stoked.

    As for the “incident” i don’t even know what your talking about. I’m talking about the rhetoric of the Panthers and how important it was that my family was armed.

    So you “blah blah blah” me all you want. I’m willing to bet the rest of the posters here, even ones that disagree with my take on the 2nd amendment or my take on the rhetoric of certain back leaders, could at least see my family history’s relevance to the issue at hand. .

  80. By the way, your comparison of a shot dog and it’s angry owner to the1967 Detroit Riot/84 World Series Riot/various Devil’s Nights that I alluded has got to be the dumbest thing I’ve read here in a long time.

  81. Obama should have NEVER weighed in this case. It’s total bull shit. He’s supposed to be President of America. That even includes people accused of a crime.

    My first comment on this was either the black kid has been lynched or we are lacking info.

    I can change that now.

    Either the black kid was lynched by a murderer or Zimmerman was lynched by the media. Either way, somebody is getting lynched.

    Who knows, entire neighborhoods could end up burning.

    Sad.

  82. “Two: The person who was in fear for his life was Trayvon Martin.”

    Oh yeah, fakename? How do you know that?

  83. Rabbit, if would make you happier, I could have given examples of violence with guns using people instead of a dog. Like the priest who was shot and killed six blocks from my house. The point I was trying to make is that my experience and yours does not make us experts, particularly in one given situation. I’m not minimizing what happened to you and your family.
    My advice to you is…move. You would be amazed at the change in perspective it gives you. I lived in Memphis for 25 years, which was far worse than New Orleans.
    And…my prediction is that no neighborhoods are going to burn.

  84. Gun makers are smiling. This will help them have another record year for profits. Stoking fear has made a lot of people rich here in the US of A.

    Fear is an awesome marketing tool.

    They said it would crumble from the inside.

    And the walls come tumbling down…

  85. I was not talking about individual instances of home defense or violence.

    I was referring to riots, lady.

    Race wars.

    Riots that leave a legacy that can last decades.

    Hey everybody….don’t worry.

    Fakename said there will be no riots over this. We can speculate and mold this instance anyway we want, now. Our leaders can stoke the flames all they want if political points are scored.

    The media can make this into a new Selma, Alabama, sans facts.

    Panthers…you don’t have to stop nailing those Dead or Alive posters. It’s cool.

    Jesse Jackson…keep giving speeches about how black people are under attack and omitting black people are the ones doing the attacking.

    Move along now. Fakename said its ok.

    I saw we hang Zimmerman. Fakename knows the details. Case closed.

  86. “The point I was trying to make is that my experience and yours does not make us experts, particularly in one given situation”-fakename

    “Two: The person who was in fear for his life was Trayvon Martin.” fakename

    LOL.

    That is rich. On the one hand, fakename lectures the Rabbit about how none of us can be experts on the given situation, despite the fact that Rabbit claims to know practicably nothing about the event.

    On the other, she breaks down the event to such an extent that she even knows what was going through the Trayvon’s mind.

  87. “Stoking fear has made a lot of people rich here in the US of A.”

    Spoken from the guy who thinks creepy messages are put into Simpson cartons by the United States government hell bent on mind control.

    It cracks me up how quick the crack pots get pretentious on everybody.

  88. Rabbit, are you always this patronizing, or do I just bring it out in you?
    I based my opinion about Trayvon Martin being in fear for his life on the fact that he made 911 calls to that effect…of course, it appears Zimmerman made 911 calls too. I don’t think that’s all sorted out yet. But what we do know is that Zimmerman was armed and Martin was not. We know that Zimmerman pursued Martin and not the other way around.
    I think it’s reasonable to come to some preliminary conclusions there. .

  89. By the way, no, nobody has a list of 50 words they can’t spell, and as a teacher, I don’t care what you teach…it could be knitting for all I care…you should be better than the rest of us.
    But you can mistype. That’s different.

  90. “Tigre, if you don’t know “what the fuck the law has to do with this case”, then I suggest you jump out the same way you jumped in.”

    Really? Which one was breaking into the neighbors unoccupied home?

    And all I read of the Sanford police statements was that they had determined that the situation described supported “self defense.” That’s all.

    Since you know the facts, SYG was applied by the police? Zimmerman’s lawyer and most others involved say it has nothing to do with Zimmerman’s actions. Rutherford’s questions have nothing to do with what you said.

    I responded to his Wild West comment that the law meant you could shoot anyone you perceived a threat — which is patently untrue.

    Listening to the 911 call from the mother with the intruder I couldn’t help but wonder, she wondered whether it was okay to shoot the guy? And R calls it a macho man law (or whatever MSNBC label)rather than a reasonable impetus for the statue that removes that doubt?

    What I know is that neither nor R nor any of the assholes trying to stoke racial tensions for political and personal gain know the whole story nor or really care. They’ve assumed the facts that suit their purpose. Pathetic.

  91. R, if you think ghat your own defense is exclusively the government’s job I truly pity you. Too inept, weak, or incapable of defending oneself or their family (or vice versa) would be terrifying to me, yet it’s reassuring to you. Believing that the 2nd amendment applies only to hunting or armed rebellion against one’s own government but not self-defense or deterence is just stupid.

  92. “I based my opinion about Trayvon Martin being in fear for his life on the fact that he made 911 calls to that effect…of course, it appears Zimmerman made 911 calls too. . . I think it’s reasonable to come to some preliminary conclusions there.”

    This is all that is reported of 911 calls:

    In all, the Sanford police released 8 audio tapes — 7 calls placed to 911 by nervous witnesses, and one call from the shooter, 28-year-old neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman, who claimed he killed Trayvon in self-defense.

    So you have info that Martin called 911?

    What do the witnesses say?

    More importantly, is it racism or the SYG law?

    Or does it matter to you since by implication conservatives are responsible in either case?’

    Enquiring minds want to know FN.

  93. Aside from legal and above board, I wonder what the real gun figures are?

    As a Christian nation civilized society, it should be everyone’s responsibility to be armed and ready to kill anyone trying to trespass, or steal their property… or their neighbor’s property… or look like someone who would… as long as you are licensed.

  94. Tigre, you’re saying that Trayvon Martin was trying to break into an unoccupied home? That’s news to me…if in fact it is news. So he should be shot? Or there was a mother with an intruder asking if it was okay to shoot. (Yes.) There is indeed much we don’t know yet. But you seem to have your mind made up. Unike R, I don’t object to guns, but I’m leery of them. Or, really, I’m not leery of guns, they are just tools…I’m leery of the people who are allowed to own them.

  95. “Tigre, you’re saying that Trayvon Martin was trying to break into an unoccupied home? ”

    I am?

    Do you even know what the discussion is about while you’re typing in comments about my ignorance of the issues?

  96. So, Tigre, you decided to wake up and pay attention? It amuses me (almost) that you mentioned conservatives. Nowhere did I mention politics here. But let me say…I hate the NRA. And R is rght that they are responsible for the SYG law in Florida. I hate them because they are incapable of nuance. They operate on the slippery slope theory. “If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns”.So they vigorously fight all efforts to regulate guns, thereby insuring that outlaws will have guns too. They are, not to make a terrible pun, shooting themselves in the foot. Sometimes you have to wonder if that’s what the NRA is looking for…an opportunity to shoot it out

  97. lol…….uh…the building……and stuff…yeah, that’s the ticket…the building.

    Did fakename actually lie about hearing a 9/11 phone call? Ha ha.

    .

  98. Regarding 82 … LOL Poolman those are classic. I love how he conflates the Bible with the Constitution. Sounds a lot like some of the folks who used to post here. 😉

  99. “So, Tigre, you decided to wake up and pay attention?”

    What the fuck are you talking about?

    You’re just yammering in circles again. Annoying.

  100. LOL Gorilla on gas and Obama … hey at least he said it’s been the same script for the past 30 years. Proof … he did it himself. Now that’s speaking from authority. 🙂

  101. Society requires participation in society not capitulation to a nanny or leaving the grid entirely.

    Alfie you’ve got to be f*cking kidding me. Now the police are part of the nanny state? WTF!!!

    A functional police department wants citizens who are alert and REPORT crimes about to happen, not Rambo wanna-be’s who intervene on their own. Any police department that WANTS Zimmerman’s needs a serious friggin’ overhaul. 😦

    P.S. Did the 911 operator in this case say “Yo George you go get ’em cos our hands our tied. We’re too damn busy.”? No … he said regarding the pursuit “you don’t have to do that.” I wish he had been more direct and said “DON’T DO THAT.”

  102. and that’s the problem. you are assuming this Zimmerman guy was a Rambo wannabe. Unfair.

    maybe you have secret phone calls too?

  103. But if it’s true that you can react with deadly force when you see someone breaking into someone else’s home, then that needs some tweaking.

    FN, please read the statute for yourself as posted by Alfie. It isn’t long. Decide for yourself. I see LOTS of wiggle room and I don’t need attorney’s (that’s you Tigre) blowing smoke up my ass telling me that “the law” contradicts what is expressed in plain English.

    As for intervening on someone else’s assault with deadly force, FN how do you know that the “aggressor” wasn’t originally the victim and has temporarily gained the upper hand? You’re gonna shoot him? One of the things that happened at the Gabby Giffords shooting was that an armed bystander chose not to fire because he wasn’t sure who the perp was.

    Cops are trained to handle this sort of thing. With all due respect, you are not. (Correct me if I’m wrong.)

  104. FN2, it has not been established that Martin punched Zimmerman. Zimmerman’s bloody nose was not in initial reports. Considering how badly botched this thing was, I have no doubt the bloody nose got added later to get incompetent cops off the hook and strengthen the self defense case.

  105. “see LOTS of wiggle room and I don’t need attorney’s (that’s you Tigre) blowing smoke up my ass telling me that “the law” contradicts what is expressed in plain English. ”

    Then why are you asking for explantions?

  106. Regarding 93 … stupid Tigre really stupid. Protecting one’s home and family is an understandable use of force. I never said it wasn’t. Did you notice she didn’t just go all Charles Bronson? She called 911 first. Then she had to make a decision based on how long it would take the police to get there.

    Completely understandable and not related to SYG in any way. That was simple self defense.

  107. Blowing smoke? Blow me Rutherford. You’ve got some balls talking to me about reading comprehension.

    The contradiction is fro prior “common law” on what constitutes self-defense. You know that of course because you can read plain language. Or do you not understand that the difference between common law, codified common law, and statutory law “in derogation of ” common law. Fuuuuck you can be dense.

  108. R, @ 77:

    “Guns for civilians are for two legit reasons: hunting and protection against a potentially hostile government (the entire reason for the 2nd amendment). And quite frankly, in America the likelihood of needing a gun to protect yourself from Obama’s army is highly unlikely.

    Don’t tell me everybody has to carry because the cops can’t keep the peace. I ain’t buying what your selling.”

    R@ 136:

    Regarding 93 … stupid Tigre really stupid. Protecting one’s home and family is an understandable use of force. I never said it wasn’t.

  109. And since you’re too dense to figure it out from the plain language and hours of MSNBC you watch daily, deadly force for self-defense under common law required an” imminent threat” which had been interpreted to mean that one might have to escape their home if possible or wait to see if the intruder was there to take the tv set or their wife before shooting. THAT’S WHY STATUTESTHAT MAKE CKEAR WHAT CONSTIUTES PERMISSBLE USE OF DEADLY FORCE WERE WRITEN. SYS SAYS SO, AND HAD YOU READ, IS RIGHT IN THE BODY OF THE STATUTE.

    If you don’t understand this, no wonder you can’t follow the simplest of explanations.

  110. Skip in the following audio to about 5 minutes 20 seconds and listen to Joe Horn justify the murder he’s about to commit with the newly passed Texas SYG law, “The laws have been changed in this country since September the first … ” The 911 operator says “property ain’t worth shooting someone over.”

    We then hear Horn say “Move, you’re dead.”

    Great law.

  111. “I have no doubt the bloody nose got added later” -R

    Really? You have NO DOUBT? No doubt at all?

    I guess you can’t have doubt. Because if you now do have some doubt, the stupid title to this blog entry would have to be changed.

    I’m glad fakename stopped by. I suggest everybody reads every one of her posts. She represents exactly what is wrong with the way this case is being handled by the left. Her mind has been molded so far in one direction she even has constructed phone calls that don’t exist.

    I don’t know what happened. I’m done with this conversation until we learn more about the case.

  112. “blowing smoke up my ass telling me that “the law” contradicts what is expressed in plain English.”

    Point me to it R. I’ve looked. Tell me where I did.

  113. But Rabbit, you remember all of Rutherford’s outrage over SYG when Joe Horn did whatever he did in Texas whenever that happened. It was just like the Florida event.

    And remember those all the black activists, it was the republican candidates’ fault? Remember that?

  114. Regarding 95 Gorilla … proves not a goddam thing. I love how very much you want to make Martin the aggressor who deserves to die.

    You should be ashamed of yourself. (Ever occurred to you that Martin might have struck a dude who was stalking him … a dude twice his size?)

    I’m not condemning the kid on the testimony of one guy.

  115. Rabbit, I’ll follow your lead. This is the typical shit. It’s why I hear nothing but crickets when I ask whether FN and R even care if their take is wrong. There’s really no point arguing the stubborn child-like logic of a crusading liberal.

    I’ll be interested in seeing what really happened. I hope the shooter is as bad as he’s been accused of being. The opposite is too much of an injustice (like the Olympic park bomber).

    In the meantime, R you’ll have plenty of time to tell me where I said the statute doesn’t mean what it says.

  116. Obama should have NEVER weighed in this case.

    Oh f*cking puhleeeeeze!!!!! He didn’t call a presser to express his opinion on this. He was asked by a reporter. You wanted him to say “no comment”? The leader of our country says “no comment” on an issue that has folks foaming at the mouth?

    A leader tries to address the issue carefully. Obama did that.

  117. What I know is that neither nor R nor any of the assholes trying to stoke racial tensions for political and personal gain know the whole story nor or really care. They’ve assumed the facts that suit their purpose. Pathetic.

    Tigre, my friend are full of horse manure. In my post I explicitly say we don’t know exactly what happened except that Z shot Martin. This post was an exercise in restraint on my part.

    As for one of your other comments regarding your expertise, so are you saying we are essentially on even footing here? That’s good. Go back and read the damn statute and then AGAIN read my problem with it and then tell me why, in your laymen’s opinion, I’m wrong. You have yet to do it.

    By the way, from what I have heard, defending one’s home is already covered by the self-defense plea. SYG is not even needed in that case.

  118. Ask Zimmerman if Obama did him any favors. Waxing on how the guy that was killed looks like he could be one his own kids (who seem to me to be the most wholesomely innocent and nice kids on planet Earth) sends quite a message.

    How about something like this: lets make sure cool heads prevail as we find out more details. Next?

  119. Gorilla you know full well I am all for helping out your fellow man. But if you don’t see a slippery slope or at least some ambiguity when it comes to using a fire arm, then I contend you haven’t given very deep thought.

  120. A leader says, “I don’t know enough about what happened nor would it be appropriate for me to comment at this time.”

    But we’re talking about Obama won’t hesitate to use it as a political opportunity.

  121. “In my post I explicitly say we don’t know exactly what happened except that Z shot Martin”

    Uh…..the title of the blog is a reference to the neighborhood watch guy being incompetent and wrongfully shooting the kid.

    You’ve also now espoused a conspiracy theory involving the police purposely beating Zimmerman so it looks like he was in a fight with the now deceased. Is that one being tossed around MSNBC or did you make it up yourself.

    Restraint?

  122. “As for one of your other comments regarding your expertise, so are you saying we are essentially on even footing here?”

    Hardly. I know what it means to have a statue in derogation of common law and a basic understanding of the development of self defense as justification for the use of deadly force.

    Now, I don’t know what your hang-up is. I challenge you to connect the statue (or whatever portion) you claim applies to the case.

    If your exercise is directed at something different, let me know. Otherwise, I don’t know what your inquiry is no matter how frequently you repeat your demand for some information not already supplied.

    If not, as I said, I haven’t looked into it because it’s not relevant and will gaze upon my diplomas and years of experience practicing law secure in the understanding that I am not laking in knowledge of the law as you so obviously are.

    A starting point might be to see where I took a position other than to point out that the term “reasonable” under the law is an objective not subjective standard, In other words, what’s reasonable is up to the Judge or Jury.

  123. Fakename….I tell you what is unbeatable. People who make up phone calls that don’t exist.

    i like how you just move on, perfectly happy with just making shit up.

  124. Tigre, if i understood you correctly earlier, you are not practicing trial law. That’s a good idea. Since your disdain is so apparent. You would not do well.

  125. You didn’t understand correctly. I am a trial lawyer. Disdain is liberally dispensed on fools like you and R that just make shit up and hide behind false platitudes. I would love to have someone so smugly devoid of logic (and facts) on cross-examination. 😆

    I see you’ve been asked a number of questions you don’t seem to answer. Why is that?

  126. So, is it racism or SYG?

    You poor confused man. You REALLY do need to read up on the case because I don’t know why you’re having such trouble with it.

    We don’t yet know if its racism on the part of Z. He is heard on a 911 tape saying under his breath “f*cking coon” in reference to Martin. But even I have to admit it’s an odd thing for him to even whisper while he knows he’s on a 911 call. I thought he might have said “f*cking goon” but the “c” sound is pretty distinct. I still find it odd. As I said earlier I couldn’t make it out until Lawrence O’Donnell “translated” it for me. So I’m not going to hang my hat on that alone.

    I’m not making the contention that Z acted knowing about the SYG law but I DO believe it influenced the police’s decision not to arrest him. The problem with SYG is that it asks cops to make an on the spot determination that should be made AT TRIAL or at least by a prosecutor.

    So what is truly distinctive about Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law? It is this: while self-defense conventionally is just that — a defense, to be raised at trial — self-defense under the Florida law acts as an immunity from prosecution or even arrest. Section 776.032 of the Florida Statutes provides that a person who uses deadly force in self-defense “is immune from criminal prosecution.” This odd provision means that a person who uses deadly force in self-defense cannot be tried, even though the highly fact-intensive question of whether the person acted in self-defense is usually hashed out at trial. The law thus creates a paradox: the State must make a highly complex factual determination before being permitted to avail itself of the forum necessary to make such a determination. Emphasis mine. From: http://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsblawg/2012/03/trayvon-martin-and-floridas-stand-your-ground-law.html

    And yes … before you go there, I was pointed to this source by Chris Hayes. F*ck you.

  127. R, while you and FN insult my professional skills (hell Rabbitts’ too) please tell me what it is that you think we are in disagreement over wit respect to the law. Please, please, please.

    You look to a provision that deals with deadly force when it comes to others property. Are we past that?

    If the law is what you believe it to be, then are you saying the police did not act in conformity with it? If so, set out why. From what I can tell, your MSNBC friends say it’s because he’s black. Link it up.

    You want an argument for some reason, so come out and say it.

    I’ll stand behind all comments on the liberal agenda. They are so obvious your denial is laugh out loud.

  128. R, from a 2 minute Google search, the “fucking coon” comment didn’t happen and is more proof of why you’re on the wrong side of this when you manufacture race as a motivation.

  129. I will say this though, the intensely “fact intensive” inquiry of whether the police have probable cause to arrest is done all the time in all kinds of contexts.

    Homicide is not the same as murder or manslaughter.

    I can’t tell you why this guy wasn’t brought in, and I understand the whole file hasn’t been released. I understand there’s things in it th will shed light.

  130. The victim was a 17 year old boy. He was in the morgue 3 days before his parents were notified. That’s fucked, no matter what else was involved. What kind of real police department operates like that?

  131. You’ve also now espoused a conspiracy theory involving the police purposely beating Zimmerman so it looks like he was in a fight with the now deceased

    WTF??? You have a vivid imagination. In the words of Tigre, please show me where I said that. I said the bloody nose detail was added later (which is true … it was not in the initial report). I said nothing about the police beating Zimmerman. Have you totally lost it?

    Have you also not heard that the police basically orchestrated what bystander statements they would take seriously and which ones they would not … and by sheer coincidence the only accounts they found credible supported Z’s story.

    The investigation was botched. You either have to say the cops were incompetent or they had their hands tied by a bad law.

  132. And now El “show me where I said that” Tigre, throughout this thread you have flatly told me that the statute doesn’t give as much latitude as I say it does. You have never addressed the specific language that I gave as exhibit 1 that the language is overly broad. (See comments 27 (Alfie’s link) 29 (my initial question about forcible felony) and 29 (my own answer on forcible felony)).

    Now, I am behind on comments so if it turns out you’ve answered this since the last post I read, I will humbly apologize.

    BTW, I’ve read and watched enough in the past 24 hours to have a basic understanding of common law and the “castle law” which if I understand it, ALREADY covers the right of a person to protect their home. So why do we need SYG again?

    Oh … I knew when I typed the defense of the woman with the shot gun I’d be accused of contradicting myself. Specific instances don’t completely kill the general assertion that force in the execution of law enforcement is the job of cops, not citizens.

  133. took a position other than to point out that the term “reasonable” under the law is an objective not subjective standard, In other words, what’s reasonable is up to the Judge or Jury.

    That makes it subjective, not objective.

  134. People who make up phone calls that don’t exist.

    Sorry Rabbit, I also heard there is a 911 call from Martin that has not yet been released. I can’t find any corroboration for this via Google. If I could, I’d post it. But FN2 probably heard the same news blurb that I did.

  135. R, from a 2 minute Google search, the “fucking coon” comment didn’t happen

    Post your links dude. My Google search on “911 call from Trayvon Martin” yielded this:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/21/trayvon-martin-911-tape-racial-slur_n_1368905.html

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/neighborhood-watch-killing-911-tape-reveals-racial-slur/story?id=15966309#.T26iRdmJQek

    And this is the actual recording that has been played on TV except on TV the “f*cking” is bleeped out. Some “expert” said Z said “punks”. Sorry punks and coons sound NOTHING alike. He either said coons or goons.

    http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/original-zimmerman-controversial-comment-explicit/vGbyc/

    OR the audio has been altered by the evil leftist media. For that you’d have to ask our conspiracy expert, Poolman. 🙂

  136. He was in the morgue 3 days before his parents were notified. That’s fucked, no matter what else was involved. What kind of real police department operates like that?

    Can I get an AMEN????

  137. “That makes it subjective, not objective.”

    No it doesn’t R. What you said, “reasonable” mean reasonable in the eyes of others. What you said was, “if the shooter feels threatened he can shoot” –ONLY if the threat was reasonable.

    I can’t believe I am having t go through this with you. You wouldn’t last 30 minutes in law school.

  138. Homicide is not the same as murder or manslaughter.

    From a quick search my understanding is murder and manslaughter are subsets of homicide (i.e. homicide is the umbrella term). Murder is premeditated, manslaughter is not.

    Is that correct?

    Incidentally, your Hays’ quote appears to be dead on to me.

    Not for nothing, but it’s a quote from a law professor, not from Hayes himself. So are you saying, after reading the quote, that you agree the statute in Florida is problematic?

    So, is that why Farrakhan, Sharpton, Jackson and your Messiah are exploiting this?

    Was that thrown in to deflect from your admission that the statute in Florida is problematic?

    However, when their principal contribution to an already dangerously unstable community situation is to utter words such as Jackson’s “Blacks are under attack,” Sharpton’s “Arrest Zimmerman now,” and Farrakhan’s “Soon and very soon, there will be retaliation” then their contributions to the sequel of the event is to further incite a tortured community that is in need of peacemaking not agitation. http://www.naplesnews.com/blogs/veritas-libertas-edward-wimberley/2012/mar/23/baiting/

    I agree with the author that “blacks are under attack” (Jackson) and Farrakhan’s quote do nothing to help the situation. (BTW, any self respecting person has never taken Farrakhan seriously. He is a world class fool.)

    But I’m puzzled by what’s offensive in Sharpton saying “Arrest Zimmerman now”. F*ck, I agree with him. Arrest the dude now. The 911 tape clearly shows he was told to not pursue the kid and then the kid winds up dead. Sorry … that is some serious probable cause for an arrest.

    So we’re one for three …. Jackson and Farrakhan should have kept their mouths shut (that goes for Geraldo too) and Sharpton hit the nail right on the head.

  139. “And now El “show me where I said that” Tigre, throughout this thread you have flatly told me that the statute doesn’t give as much latitude as I say it does. You have never addressed the specific language that I gave as exhibit 1 that the language is overly broad. (See comments 27 (Alfie’s link) 29 (my initial question about forcible felony) and 29 (my own answer on forcible felony)).”

    God bless it!

    Read my 42 for crying out-loud Mr. Reading Comprehension:

    I was addressing you statement:

    “When folks can legally shoot anyone the deem a threat (which is the essence of the stand your ground law) we are back in the days of the Wild West.”

    I asked you repeatedly to tell my why the “breaking into someone else’s home” (or forcible entry) had anything to do with this case. You have not even attempted to answer it. I told you it was irrelevant and I wasn’t in any better position to answer it than you. WTF??

    Are you retarded or blind?

  140. “Is that correct?”

    No. Murder and manslaughter are crimes. People killed by accident, non-criminal negligence or in self defense have committed a homicide, but not murder or manslaughter. Do you remember our discussion of intent?

  141. I asked you repeatedly to tell my why the “breaking into someone else’s home” (or forcible entry) had anything to do with this case. You have not even attempted to answer it. I told you it was irrelevant and I wasn’t in any better position to answer it than you. WTF??

    That specific does not apply to this case but is evidence that the SYG law is overly broad.

    What applies to this case, is that SYG influenced the officers on the scene to take Z’s word for it. Granted, they didn’t have access to the 911 tape but the minute that tape was reviewed, Z should have been arrested. Besides, the absence of a weapon on the kid should also have triggered an immediate arrest.

  142. And by the way, your comment in 42 was 90% snark and 10% serious answer which is why I paid it little attention.

    I agree that the statute would not help Z’s defense since the statute does not stipulate stalking someone down BEFORE “standing your ground”. What I have said is that the statute makes it easier for cops not to arrest folks who need to be arrested because the cops are put in the awkward position of applying the overbroad statute to each individual case.

  143. I got my definition of homicide from here:
    Although the term homicide is sometimes used synonymously with murder, homicide is broader in scope than murder. Murder is a form of criminal homicide; other forms of homicide might not constitute criminal acts. These homicides are regarded as justified or excusable. For example, individuals may, in a necessary act of Self-Defense, kill a person who threatens them with death or serious injury, or they may be commanded or authorized by law to kill a person who is a member of an enemy force or who has committed a serious crime. Typically, the circumstances surrounding a killing determine whether it is criminal. The intent of the killer usually determines whether a criminal homicide is classified as murder or Manslaughter and at what degree.http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/homicide

  144. “So are you saying, after reading the quote, that you agree the statute in Florida is problematic?”

    I am not saying one way or the other.

    I told you as loudly as possible through your screaming and fist pounding (metaphorical), I was nether a proponent or detractor. I hadn’t heard of the statute and frankly haven’t thought through the wisdom of it. I was responding to your comment and so over and over, and you ignored that over and over as you were accusing me of not knowing how to explain the law, never pausing to see that I wasn’t attempting to (at least the portion that you think makes you right somehow).

    Do you not get that I don’t have an opinion on the motives or effect of the statute yet? It was an observation and appeared accurate because it arguably creates a paradox — but that paradox is by design.

    As you run around sometimes blaming the shooter, sometimes blaming the law, sometimes blaming the police force, always blaming conservatives as you’ve been programmed to do, try thinking beyond the blame to see if you can understand why you are scoring no points with this.

    If we faced a different circumstance, one where retreat was called into question (a white aggressor and black “victim” being carted off to jail — or whatever else arouses your passions) you might argue that the statue was intended to remove doubt and thankful it was in place rather than deeming it problematic.

    So if you are going to blame the law, I’ve asked you o link your blame to the crime.

    “Was that thrown in to deflect from your admission that the statute in Florida is problematic?”

    No. It’s to highlight the absurdity of your logic. If the law is at fault yet properly applied, what the hell are your boys doing down there? It’s the law that’s at fault, not the police or prosecutors. If the law needs to be corrected, then look for ways to correct the law” not persecute/lynch the people that abide by it. These guys are putting out bounties. They are screaming racism from someone that is reportedly not a racist.

    Why you don’t see this? I mean, you talk of vigilantism yet don’t see that they’re asking for pitch forks and torches — vigilantism?

  145. “Tigre, reasonable in the eyes of a judge and jury is SUBJECTIVE. So no I don’t get what you’re saying.”

    God!! Arrghhh.

    The shooter’s belief versus the laws (or finder of fact). The shooter’s subjective determination of what’s reasonable does not control.
    Re-read what you said about the Wild West” for the Love of God and all that is good!!!.

    And if you just won’t believe me, go to another legal source of your choosing that will explain objective from subjective. This is like banging my head on table. The dumbest bastards I met the first day of law school got this. Not you. . .

    If you really care to know, you’d stop for a second and think about your comment and my response.

  146. “That specific does not apply to this case but is evidence that the SYG law is overly broad.”

    Good for you. Go find someone that wants to argue the point. I told you I didn’t give a shit yet you keep going to it like you “got” me on something. If I didn’t make that clear it’because I thought you had a point.

  147. “He was in the morgue 3 days before his parents were notified. That’s fucked, no matter what else was involved. What kind of real police department operates like that?”

    Is that uncommon? I seriously don’t even know what is normal when it comes to that. Was he a John Doe for a while? I always figured a body would have to stay with police for a while if it was the result of a possible crime.

    If they didn’t tell the parents and they knew who they were, that would be fucked up.

    But, I can’t start screaming about that because I don’t have a clue how these things work.

    You seem to have this idea that Tigre and I are sitting here defending Zimmerman or the police.

    We aren’t, because we don’t know what the fuck happened. At least I think I can speak for Tigre on this one.

    What we do see is classic group think going on, devoid of facts.

    People talking about 911 calls that never happened. Racial slurs that never were muttered. Your totally unfounded but intricate conspiracy involving the Police tactically bruising Zimmerman to get him out of murder. It’s Gingrich’s fault. Death threats. Blanket claims that black people are under violent siege by white racists. The President comparing the slain to his own perfect children.

    Step away from the mob for a bit, Rutherford. Try to look at the whole thing as an objective outsider.

    You’re leaders want a racial crisis very bad. They also want a gun controversy involving a legally armed citizen being over zealous. They aren’t a dime a dozen.

    This has nothing to do with the kid. If it was, the national media would at least pick a few dead black kids a year out of the thousands that are murdered and demand justice..

    But they don’t.

  148. “What applies to this case, is that SYG influenced the officers on the scene to take Z’s word for it. Granted, they didn’t have access to the 911 tape but the minute that tape was reviewed, Z should have been arrested. Besides, the absence of a weapon on the kid should also have triggered an immediate arrest.”

    You don’t know this. You may be right, but you don’t know. It’s time for you schmucks to see what happened first. I hope you’re right. Otherwise you will have an embarrassing lesson on what real justice is (hint: not convicting someone based on media reports and incomplete information). And with your track record of getting whipped up then finding you were wrong I’d think you’d have learned something about. Wishful thinking I guess.

    In the meantime, Sharpton is fanning the flames. He needs to be attending to his own family, not accusing people of racism when he doesn’t know shit about shit either. Another man with a track record.

    This reaction from people as ignorant as you on all of it is scary. If you had sense you’d be on the side of calming things down rather than looking for a way to pin whatever happened on political adversaries. You’re being lead around.

  149. “I got my definition of homicide from here[.]”

    I see you read with the same level of critical thinking you did with what I wrote. If you ever bothered to read to learn rather than for validation it would be a sign of the coming apocalypse.

    Again, you got balls talking about my “reading comprehension.”

  150. Tigre nailed it in 180.

    R, you have not remotely proved racist shit has gone down, yet your making this Racial Controversy 2012.

    And its dangerous to do that.

    Dealing with you during these types of situations is like dealing with a angry drunk. I’m serious when I say that. Your drunk on MCNBC rabble rousing.

    Hey man, I can get whipped up too. I’m trying to act like I’m smarter or always in more control. I’m just trying to be honest.

    Stop watching MSNBC. I quit cable news about a year ago. I watch it about a half hour every two weeks. I suggest you do too.

    They get you so whipped up that you can’t be rational. It’s why you’ve wrote so many embarrassing things during controversies as the unfold real time.

  151. “This reaction from people as ignorant as you on all of it is scary.” Tigre

    It really is. The Loughner shooting was the huge eye opener for me.

  152. ”Regarding 95 Gorilla … proves not a goddam thing. I love how very much you want to make Martin the aggressor who deserves to die.

    You should be ashamed of yourself. (Ever occurred to you that Martin might have struck a dude who was stalking him … a dude twice his size?)

    I’m not condemning the kid on the testimony of one guy.” – R

    But you are going to condemn the guy on?

    Self-defense stops the moment you go from defender to aggressor. Pinning someone to the ground and punching them in the face is NOT an act of self-defense, it is an act of aggression. Period. If he punched him and then either stood his ground or moved away, he would be completely in the right, but he cannot manage to get a guy on the ground, climb on top of him and proceed to beat him and still claim self-defense.

    IF he was wrestling with Zimmerman to get the gun away from him, there might be an argument, but the witness- IF ACCURATE- is stating that Zimmerman was crying for help and that Martin was on top of him punching him, which apparently matches the story Zimmerman gave police.

    I have no desire to make Martin the aggressor, I simply pointed out that there is an alleged witness that corroborates Zimmermans’ statement. The thing that has my goat in all of this is the fact that YOU on the left are using this for political purposes. Cases in point:

    Yesterday afternoon at a press conference, the New Black Panther Party for Self-Defense circulated a “wanted dead or alive” poster for George Zimmerman for shooting to death a Florida teenager four weeks ago.

    Jackson said that there is a mistaken assumption in some corners of America that all racial problems went away with the election of President Obama. “There was this feeling that we were kind of beyond racism,” he said. “That’s not true. His victory has triggered tremendous backlash.”

    He added: “Blacks are under attack.” African American families are facing record home foreclosures and unemployment. Their children are burdened with student loan debt [apparently white people don’t have student loans -ed]. States, particularly conservative ones, are passing voter laws that leaders know will disenfranchise blacks and other minorities. Meanwhile, the nation’s prisons are brimming with black faces, he said, and their numbers that suggest that the legal system is quicker to send blacks to prison than whites.

    KAREN FINNEY (MSNBC): How do we go from one state to 30? Who was the Typhoid Mary for this horrible outbreak? Try not to be surprised. It’s the usual suspects: the Koch brothers, the NRA, the American Legislative Exchange Council, and Clinton vets, remember the Scaife family? Oh, yeah. These are the same people who stymied gun regulation at every point who funded and ghost write these laws and others that have become a core of the conservative agenda that is being implemented across our country. It’s the same group that also wrote the voter I.D. laws which threaten to disenfranchise some 5 million american voters, many of them African-American.

    KAREN FINNEY (MSNBC): “Rush Limbaugh calls a presidential candidate, Senator Barack Obama, a magic negro…In the case of Trayvon, those festering stereotypes had lethal consequences.” [Gorilla Comment: Rush did not come up with the Magic Negro comment, the LA Times did, and he simply ridiculed and parodied the comment.]

    MSNBC’s Al Sharpton spoke at a rally for Trayvon Martin in Martin’s hometown of Sanford, Florida on Thursday night.

    Sharpton has been heavily involved in the unfolding story surrounding Martin’s death for weeks, using both his television show and his broader activism to push the case. On Thursday, he devoted his entire show to Martin before going immediately to the rally.

    MSNBC host Ed Schultz blamed former Gov. Jeb Bush, R-Fla., for the death of Trayvon Martin, the teenager whose death in a shooting has made national news and sparked accusations of racism in America.

    “Jeb Bush helped pave the way for this senseless tragedy and remains silent,” Schultz said last night on his show. “What a political tragedy.” […]

    The MSNBC host tied Bush to the killing because George Zimmerman, the man accused of shooting Martin, was not arrested for murder after he claimed the shooting was in self-defense.

    “But my main message is to the parents of Trayvon Martin. You know, if I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon,” Obama said. “All of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves.”

    “Obviously this is a tragedy. I can only imagine what these parents are going through,” Obama said. “All of us have to do some soul searching to figure out how something like this has happened.”

    Which brings us back to what you said, “You should be ashamed of yourself.” Pray tell, why?

    Zimmerman is being lynched by the left (something you’ve been good at for decades). We don’t have all the facts, we don’t know what the specifics of the situation is and you’ve all tried and convicted him, and then neatly placed him on a pedestal as a political punching bag for you pet agendas. You did the EXACT same thing with the Tucson shooting. It was immediately twisted into what you needed it to politically be, despite the fact that it was 180 degrees out from what you hoped for.

    I don’t need Martin to be the aggressor, but you need Zimmerman to be. Your narrative completely collapses on itself if Martin becomes the aggressor. The racial argument, the gun argument, the SYG argument- everything collapses because your entire premise is hollow. You’ve turned Martin’s death into a Trojan horse, using it to disguise and insert your political agenda and narrative; and frankly, I hope that horse burns to the ground. I don’t need Martin to be the aggressor, but in a way I kind-of hope that he is because then it will at least provide some justification for this. If the meme on the left is true, then someone has senselessly died and Zimmerman should be prosecuted for it. But if Zimmerman’s account is true, then he was acting in self-defense and while that doesn’t change the fact that someone has died- tragic- it at least shows that it was not without cause.

  153. I returned the the United States in 1970 and soon learned what the anti war liberals thought of people like me. When I attended my first grad school orientation party at the University of Iowa and innocently told someone i was there on the remains of the GI Bill, a chill developed, and someone said “You don’t belong here you fascist. We’ll get rid of you.

    They didn’t, and I earned a MA with thesis, plus nine hours toward a PhD in an experimental accelerated program. When two job counselors told a Navy friend and me to lie about our military service if we wanted jobs for what we had trained for, I got mad and left to farm.

    For years, I carried hatred for what those people did to veterans and more importantly that they made us abandon South East Asia the way they did.

    I decided my loathing was part of the sickness I had brought home, and resolved to heal myself. I joined two successive liberal message boards to personally meet the objects of my disgust. It worked. Many were nice people who merely believed differently than I. Some of us met personally, and we exchanged Christmas cards and phone calls. I discounted the pigs as outliers.

    Then, I found another blog, and my experience with one person there combined with what the news tells us about events of the past few years taught me a lesson. I was never sick. The progressives as a group are a disease infesting this country, and my instincts have been right all of these years.

    There are two types of progressives, and I still like some personally. I think the people posting here are nice folks. The rest are our enemies. I watched how Tex operated on H and M. He made me wince. However, he was right, and I was wrong.

  154. Where did the idea come from that, if the Martin kid was unarmed, Zimm should have been arrested? Think someone can’t kill or maim you with a piece of brick, or a stick, or their bare hands?

    Several years back a roaming pack of black teenagers picked out individual whites in Charlottesville and attacked them as they left the Mall. I was carrying a pistol at that time; I shopped in and visited friends in C’ville often and traveled the same trail from the Walking Mall where these “youths” attacked people. I didn’t go there looking for trouble, but I didn’t avoid it either; if I had business or pleasure there, I went. It turns out that they weren’t armed in the usual sense, but nobody knew that and they always attacked in the dark. Think I wouldn’t have downed one or several of those young predators? Think again. Their lucky day; several were teenaged girls I’m told.

    Interestingly, when they were apprehended it was suggested they be prosecuted for “hate crimes” – a stupid concept if ever there was one – but it NEVER HAPPENED. The whole thing was quietly handled, but hate crimes? No, not at all. After all, it’s not possible for black kids to commit hate crimes, is it? They are just acting out perfectly justifiable “black rage.” Feh.

    It sounds to me like The Zimm is an asshole bully, but I would like to hear the rest of the facts before beating the drum for his arrest. I would also like to see some restraint by the Lamestream Media on cases still under investigation.

  155. “Obama should have NEVER weighed in this case.
    Oh f*cking puhleeeeeze!!!!! He didn’t call a presser to express his opinion on this. He was asked by a reporter. You wanted him to say “no comment”? The leader of our country says “no comment” on an issue that has folks foaming at the mouth?”

    Your damned skippy he should have kept his mouth shut. Here’s a example: “My understanding is that the investigation is ongoing, and it would not be appropriate for me to comment.” Easy, huh?

    He is the president of ALL the people. In exactly the same way that it was inappropriate for Congress to weigh in on ONE PERSON (Terry Schiavo) it is inappropriate for the Pres. to comment on individual cases. Let the system work. Ditto for the soldier who allegedly killed the Afghan civilians. STFU.

  156. A 13 year old white was doused with gasoline and set afire by a bunch of blacks who yelled “you’ve got it coming, white boy!”They’re still at large. The boy might have been lying. It is for the courts to decide.

    However, no contingent of blacks and white liberals protested for justice before the facts were known. That boy was not a cause celeb for news readers.

    Blacks also attacked people because they were white at the Minnesota State Fair last summer.

    We already know about the double standard they use to attack conservative women.

    Blacks and others’ treatment over the years is unconscinable. But low lifes are feeding on race and political beliefs to make it worse for their profit. We need reconcilation with precious little of it available.

  157. This has nothing to do with the kid. If it was, the national media would at least pick a few dead black kids a year out of the thousands that are murdered and demand justice.- Rabbit @183

    Rabbit is correct. If it were about the “KID” the media would have picked it up after Feb. 26 when the incident actually happened. I am making a supposition but knowing the area, I’m sure at the time it was just considered another “black kid” getting murdered by a”Latino”.

    No one know all the facts and so therefore all the discussion is pointless except for the fact that an armed man shot an unarmed kid. The police should have taken the armed man into custody “IMO”

    The media is only NOW taking note because it appears to be winding up to a major racial incident which is NEWS!!!

    You know, that kind of news that screams Gang Warfare breaks out in Orlando suburb between blacks and latinos !!!!!!

  158. ”The victim was a 17 year old boy. He was in the morgue 3 days before his parents were notified. That’s fucked, no matter what else was involved. What kind of real police department operates like that?” -Poolman

    ”Can I get an AMEN????” –R

    AMEN!

    Except…

    The next morning, when he woke up, Tracy realized that Trayvon had not returned home. “I started making calls, and I reached my nephew,” Martin says. “He said he hadn’t seen Trayvon. Then I really started getting worried. So I called the Sheriff’s department to file a missing persons report. I let them know it hadn’t been 24 hours, but it was unusual for Trayvon not to return home.”

    Three police cars soon pulled up and a detective asked Tracy for a recent picture of his son. “I had one on my phone, so I showed it to him,” Tracy says, his voice tightening. “He told me he was going to show me a photo and ask if it was my son. He pulled out a photo of Trayvon’s dead body. And the nightmare began.”

    Stunned and devastated, Tracy called Trayvon’s mother, Sybrina Fulton, from whom he’s been divorced for several years. “I couldn’t believe what I was hearing; it just didn’t seem real,” recalls Fulton, her eyes filling with tears. “And finally I said, ‘I need you to go and actually identify his body.’ I needed to know if that was my baby, dead.”

    http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20581404,00.htm

  159. Is there some reason that the agitators don’t see the irony in calling for the shooter’s lynching labeling him a racist vigilante?

    Maybe Obama will weigh in-in an attempt to restore peace and be sure that this kid and his family are not victimized. 🙄

    So Gorilla, is it that Spike Lee, screenwriter and director of Do the Right Thing(?), gave out the family’s address on twitter? Wow.

  160. My apologies, Tigre, for not understanding you are in fact a trial lawyer. I bet you’re a big hit with juries. You must be a consummate actor to hide your contempt for them.
    As for Spike Lee tweeting Zimmerman’s address, I would think that’s a crime…or should be. It’s like “inciting to riot” or something. On the other hand, how does he know? I thought Zimmerman had been evicted, per some other comment here.
    Re: fighting over the gun. I would hope so. If I had the strength, that’s the first thing I’d try to do. As soon as you give up the gun, I’ll stop hitting you.
    And R, re: 133. That could be the case here too, that the victim temporarily gained the upper hand. But I wasn’t suiggestng shooting someone without warning. As for the Giffords case, that was not the only reason no one fired. It was also to prevent innocent people from being shot in the process, if I recall correctly.
    And as a general comment, it doesn’t matter how moderate or reasonable you attempt to be here. Someone will cherry-pick some sentence or word you uttered and try to make you into Al Sharpton. You should not be surprised.

  161. FN, I hold no contempt for juries. Ever. I hold contempt for my adversaries, lying witnesses, and people like you that distort the facts or just make them up (as you just did again) because they have the arrogance to think the outcome shod turn on their opinions about what’s right and wrong with little regard for their role as witness and not finder-of fact. It’s all about testing credibility, something you don’t bother with establishing. You’re precisely the type of person I like to cross examine. You’d be a disaster on the stand.

    So you think you know how a good trial lawyer operates or something of my professionalism? You think I care or that your opinion of what makes good trial lawyer matters? It’s obvious to me you’ve never tried a case or apparently never seen contentiousness in courtroom proceedings.

    (before you spout off again, those are rhetorical. I don’t really care to hear of experience on a jury or whatever tv shows you’ve watched. You make it up as you go along.).

    For people like you, Mark Twain said it best: “It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.”

  162. The shooter’s subjective determination of what’s reasonable does not control.

    Tigre, if that’s all you’re saying then no sh*t Sherlock. The defendant’s subjective determination of reasonable never applies. If it did, we could do whatever we wanted and say to hell with any law.

    I think you confused me semantically when you said the judge and jury have an objective opinion. That ain’t true either. My guess would be that only a minority of laws (like “don’t run a stop sign”) can be objectively measured by anyone. That’s why we have trials to look at all the evidence. Hence the paradox cited in the quote I gave you.

    Since you mention Law School repeatedly, do you not agree that if I were Professor Kingsfield and you were my student and you answered “I don’t have an opinion either way”, I’d be fully within my rights to hand you an F? (Or back in my Harvard days, an E.) 🙂

  163. “Since you mention Law School repeatedly, do you not agree that if I were Professor Kingsfield and you were my student and you answered “I don’t have an opinion either way”, I’d be fully within my rights to hand you an F? (Or back in my Harvard days, an E.)”

    No. He’d have to recognize it’s immaterial whcih you are unwilling to. You’d be laughed at by the students.

    “If it did, we could do whatever we wanted and say to hell with any law.”

    Like in the Wild West days? Remeber? Your premise? Duh.

  164. Racial slurs that never were muttered.

    I wouldn’t put my entire reputation on it, but it could easily be heard as “f*cking coon”. Listen to the sound bite again and decide for yourself.

    http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/original-zimmerman-controversial-comment-explicit/vGbyc/

    This has nothing to do with the kid. If it was, the national media would at least pick a few dead black kids a year out of the thousands that are murdered and demand justice..

    NAACP Chair Ben Jealous and I fully agree with you.

    The sad truth is all the sturm und drang over this will subside in a few weeks and nothing substantial will have changed to protect black kids from getting shot by whites, by cops, by their own “brothers”. 😐

  165. If you ever bothered to read to learn

    That’s actually unfair. I didn’t discard sources until I found one that supported my notion. Honestly, that was the first site I went to.

    If you think the source sucks (as it may well) then please tell me a good legal dictionary accessible from the web that I should consult in the future.

  166. R, sorry man. You wouldn’t make it past orientation in law school. Hell, given your reading comprehension, you probably wouldn’t even make to orientation because it isn’t being conducted where you think it should be. 😆

  167. It’s why you’ve wrote so many embarrassing things during controversies as the unfold real time.

    I don’t think you’re capable of separating the article from the ensuing discussion. Even Alfie (I think it was Alfie) praised the article for its restraint.

    If you bother to review the thread, and let go of your stubborn predisposition to pigeon hole my beliefs, you’ll see that I really haven’t addressed racism much at all with this. I’ve addressed a bad law, poor police procedure and a negligent prosecutor.

    Now, in the background is the FACT that if Z were black he’d be in jail today. But I really haven’t focused on that in the article nor in this thread.

  168. “The sad truth is all the sturm und drang over this will subside in a few weeks and nothing substantial will have changed to protect black kids from getting shot by whites, by cops, by their own “brothers”.”

    The sad truth is you think that should be the objective of this whole event rather than learning what happened and demanding that justice be delivered even to the one your presume guilty.

  169. “I’ve addressed a bad law, poor police procedure and a negligent prosecutor.”

    Bullshit. You’ve addressed none of them. You leveled accusations with the predisposition you claim not to have.

  170. And for proof:

    “Now, in the background is the FACT that if Z were black he’d be in jail today.”

    Really? I thought it was the law?

    What proof do you have of this “fact?”

  171. Just listened to the recording about 8 times. Sounds like “fucking punk” to me.

    I’m going to listen to it backwards. Maybe Lawrence O’Donnell is on to something. . .

  172. Nope. It just says “Paul id dead.”

    Well, don’t let that stop you on your crusade to make this guy a racist.

    Are you doing this because he’s hispanic?

  173. Regarding 189, Gorilla, I actually agree with you that lots of the rhetoric from the left is overboard on this. The fact is that certain events open old wounds and the Martin shooting has opened the “walking while black” wound in a lot of folks.

    On a practical note, what are the odds that a kid was able to knock a self appointed “neighborhood watch captain” twice his size to the ground and start wailing on him? I might grant you that when cornered, Martin may have swung at Z and bloodied his nose. (Legal according to SYG by the way). But it is a stretch for me to believe that Z was overpowered by Martin or that Z’s life was ever in danger such that he needed to use lethal force. I don’t think you believe it either.

  174. James, I was just a kid during the Vietnam war so I can’t speak experientially to what you went through. But isn’t it true that by the time the war was over, it was opposed by a great majority of Americans regardless of political stripe? I find it hard to believe that unfair treatment of the Viet vets was the exclusive domain of liberals.

  175. Last night, in Omaha a group of bicycle riders yelled racial slurs at some blacks until one threw a rock and hit a young man in the head. The riders left and returned with a pistol which one fired into the air.

    I don’t know if the incident was connected to the racial animosity stirred up by the shooting, or if it would have happened anyway.

    Omaha also had a group who called themselves “Mad Dads.” They were black men who patrolled the streets at night to diffuse potential violence and crimes.

  176. My understanding is that the investigation is ongoing, and it would not be appropriate for me to comment.

    Actually PF, if anybody bothered to listen to Obama’s full statement, he LEAD with this comment. He said he needed to be cautious in his answer because his Justice Department was involved in the case.

    Then he tried to comfort the parents of the slain boy in as personal a way as possible. It’s called being human.

    If you want no comment, vote for the robot Mitt. (Oh I forgot, you plan to.)

  177. “Then he tried to comfort the parents of the slain boy in as personal a way as possible. It’s called being human.”

    As Rabbit, I’m sure Zimmerman and his parents thought it was appropriate. Oh, I forgot, he doesn’t matter. You’ve already decided what happened.

  178. If Spike Lee controls his own Twitter feed he is inciting violence and should be called on it. If he has staff to do it (which is equally likely) they need to be fired. Real simple.

  179. Some day, R will take my comment out of moderation…

    LOL … Sundays are a bad day for you to get your comment in moderation because I spend much of the day filling my head with that terrible lame stream media crap from the Sunday political shows. 😉

  180. Is there some reason that the agitators don’t see the irony in calling for the shooter’s lynching labeling him a racist vigilante?

    FWIW, the irony is not lost on me. Two wrongs do NOT make a right.

  181. And as a general comment, it doesn’t matter how moderate or reasonable you attempt to be here. Someone will cherry-pick some sentence or word you uttered and try to make you into Al Sharpton. You should not be surprised.

    LOL, FN you’d think I’d know better by now? I’ve been doing this going on five years.

    As for Z being evicted, I heard he (and his father in a separate home) have both voluntarily relocated due to death threats.

  182. Has anyone here seen any pictures of Trayvon show him closer to his actual age? The ones I’ve seen all look like he’s about 12 years old.

    From what I understand he is a slight kid. BUT you raise a very interesting point. My ears may have deceived me but when I first heard about this case on the news, Martin was portrayed as a “young boy with Skittles”. I assumed we were talking ten or eleven years old. I was shocked to learn he was 17.

  183. BTW, Tigre and Rabbit, I had heard about this case at least four or five days before I wrote about it. I waited to make sure Trayvon didn’t turn out to be a thug.

    I don’t jump on the “bandwagon” nearly as quickly anymore as you accuse me.

  184. Ooops. I now see that Zimmerman is not Hispanic. The new term for the MSNBCers is “White Hispanic.” Well, now we know this was a racial motivated crime.

    Than God our White Black president understands that Zimmerman could like one of his too. 🙄

    Twisted.

  185. Like in the Wild West days? Remeber? Your premise? Duh.

    Nice try but monumental FAIL. You win on the notion that what a defendant thinks is reasonable is irrelevant. You lose on denying that our laws create expectation of behavior. When it is legal for every Tom Dick and Harry to carry a gun, and then we have another law which distorts the appropriate conditions for using that gun, then we do lead to a Wild West scenario.

    I suspect (yes this will piss you off) that as a lawyer you focus on the plaintiff and defendant and you’ve gotten used to accepting the laws as they are. Hence you discount how our legal code influences the society in which we live. Since you can’t change the law, and must practice within its confines, you focus on individual behavior and not on a law’s impact on society.

    Guns-for-all and an overly broad SYG law move a society towards the Wild West.

  186. Hell, given your reading comprehension, you probably wouldn’t even make to orientation because it isn’t being conducted where you think it should be.

    That actually cracked me up.
    😆

    I know it ain’t worth 2 cents but while I was growing up LOTS of people told me I should become a lawyer. In the next life, I very well may. I’ll see you then. 🙂

    P.S. Like a fool, I took a course freshman year called “Theory of Law”. At the time I was too dumb to know to avoid any course with the word “theory” in it. Be that as it may, I sucked at the theoretical stuff (too dry for me) but I excelled at the case studies. That’s what I would love about law school is dissecting cases. Let’s make peace for five seconds … tell me did you enjoy case studies the most in Law School or did something else turn you on?

  187. The sad truth is you think that should be the objective of this whole event

    Nope, that would be a really great side benefit. Justice in one case is a Pyrrhic victory if injustice is the general rule.

  188. Muffy … seriously???? Heck, I’ll listen to it again. I know for a fact that when someone plants an idea in your head about a recording like this, it makes it very hard to hear anything but what has been suggested. So even though I’m hearing “coon”, I must admit (as I did in the article) that I couldn’t make it out at all until Crazy Larry said what it was.

  189. R, everything you’ve said at 239 is wrong. You’re just in face-saving mode. Lecture me about the law and how its perceived and limitation that it can’t be changed that I didn’t know until you told me, I’m not going to waste my breath. Your whole attempt to speak to this is a major FAIL.

    If you can’t use your imagination to see that there may be equally troubling problems with the prior defense scheme there’s not hope for you. Go make your case for why “retreat” is preferable.

  190. I think fakename might be making that “cherry picking” comment towards me.

    Making up phone calls that don’t exist and using these make believe phone calls as “evidence” that her insight to what happened serves as the perfect example how these things can get out of control.

    Classic.

    Rutherford, how is that conspiracy involving the police department going? You know, the one you have NO DOUBT that took place. You have NO DOUBT the police department assaulted Zimmerman in a scheme to make it look like he was in a physical confrontation with Trayvon. What was their motive?

    Again. A perfect example of how rotten people can get when group think takes over.

    Sad.

    What a coincidence, the same two people who blamed a mentally deranged man’s action in Arizona on Sara Palin and the free speech of political pundits they disagree with.

    You people are sick.

  191. With a name like Zimmerman, they could call him a “White Hispanic Jew.” That would give two parts dominant racial harrassor and one part victim.We all know Hispanics are members of a victim class.

    Most Hispanics are at least more than half caucasion. Race politics make them something else until times like this when a white on black scenario is needed to foment racial conflict for profit

    I was also surprised when I read that Baker was 17 and 6’2″ The skin color on hiis picture was allegedly lightened.

  192. DAMN!!!! Based on Muffy’s comment, I just listened again and now I can hear it both ways!!! Which seems impossible because “punks” sounds nothing like “coons”. If I listen for punks, sure enough, I hear punks. If I listen for coon, I hear coon.

    It sounded more like punks at a lower volume.

    Well, again, my article characterizes Z as a Barney Fife gone wrong, not as a racist. And I readily admit that searching the tape for racist evidence is quite beside the point at this stage. (My next article will address this.)

  193. “You people are sick.” I’m not referring to any one here, but yes, liberals are sick. A pattern develops over time.

  194. “Let’s make peace for five seconds … tell me did you enjoy case studies the most in Law School or did something else turn you on?”

    I don’t understand your question. Virtually all of law school is taught through case study and Socratic method.

    I enjoyed the academics, but I did not enjoy law school mostly because I didn’t care for the prototypical “law student.” It was fun watching the know-it-alls get chewed up when their assumptions were challenged. And in all candor, you’d be one that would struggle with it.

    I LOVE practicing law. When I say I’d like to cross examine like FN, I mean it. She exhibits the traits that would make for sport and entertainment to the jury. When one doesn’t control the forum and have the privilege of selecting who judges their credibility, you can’t run away from false or unfounded trash talk.

  195. For a guy who wasn’t interested, you seem very interested, Tigre. I’ll have to Stand My Ground on your contempt. Juries are composed of ordinary people who haven’t been to law school.

  196. “If I listen for punks, sure enough, I hear punks. If I listen for coon, I hear coon.”

    And that’s why you need to shut the damn MSNBC off once in a while.

  197. by the way…..i couldn’t make out what he said. I will say this, “coon” isn’t really used anymore…particularly by young people…..even more particularly by young Hispanics.

    He could have said coon, though.

    Or just about any other word imaginable in English or maybe even Spanish.

    As for the left media now referring to him as a “white Hispanic”….This reminds me exactly of my college thesis in college.

    Some bar tender in Civil War era Detroit, who identified with the Democrats and hated blacks, gets blamed for rape.

    Apparently this guy was part Indian, part Spanish, part everything. Nobody really knew what his background was.

    Anyways, the Democratic newspapers were itching for stories about blacks raping white girls. They literally “turned” this guy into a black dude over the course of a few weeks. Detroit Irish rioted, the black neighborhood was razed to ground and a couple people were lynched.

    When it was all said in done, the rape victims admitted they made it up.

  198. You have NO DOUBT the police department assaulted Zimmerman in a scheme to make it look like he was in a physical confrontation with Trayvon.

    Goddamit Rabbit … why do you continue to repeat this f*cking lie? I NEVER said that.

    See comment 165. WTF is wrong with you? I said the DETAIL about the bloody nose was added to later police reports and did not appear in the initial report. I did NOT say, in any way, shape or form that the cops broke Z’s nose as part of some scheme.

    Do you think if you say it enough f*cking times, everyone here will believe it? Damn! Quit your day job and go work for Fox News if you want to keep distorting what people say. 👿

  199. Virtually all of law school is taught through case study and Socratic method.

    I know this is true of Harvard Law School but I didn’t think it applied to law schools in general.

    I’d “struggle” with it the first semester because I do make assumptions. Believe me, with a class standing at stake, I’d adjust quite quickly.

  200. Rabbit, I have to agree with you … no one says coon anymore. Makes the interpretation all the more unlikely. On that Hispanic angle, maybe he said “puta”? 😉

    I’m guessing that his mom is Hispanic and his dad is Jewish which according to Jewish custom does NOT make him Jewish since if I’m not mistaken Judaism is passed down from the mother.

  201. “Zimmerman’s bloody nose was not in initial reports. Considering how badly botched this thing was, I have no doubt the bloody nose got added later to get incompetent cops off the hook and strengthen the self defense case.”-R

    lol. Sorry, man. i thought you meant the cops actually gave him the bloody nose.

    In my defense, it could be taken either way. Although my take is a little on the odd side.

    You have to remember you fired that one off just as your buddy was making up phone calls. See, I can worked up too.

    That being said, you have no doubt that the cops added it to the report to strengthen the self defense case?

    No doubt at all?

    You are basically saying you have NO DOUBT that their is a malicious conspiracy. A cover up of a murder.

    Pretty heavy stuff.

    Did you see the entire initial report? How do you know you even saw the initial report?

  202. On a side note, Cheney got a heart transplant last night. Obviously this dude does NOT want to die. Life after a heart transplant is no walk in the park from what I understand … just from the anti-tissue-rejection drugs alone. At 71 a lot of people would have just lived on that external heart for as long as possible and then thrown in the towel.

    Mmmm this raises an interesting question. If Cheney’s heart donor was not an American citizen, does that now disqualify Cheney from ever running for President? I want to see his donor’s birth certificate!! 😉

  203. Two beautiful black women kidnapped and murdered.

    The back story? They were seen as snitches. One of the women witnessed an attempted murder. They were good people.

    You won’t see Rutherford drone on about this double homicide. Jesse Jackson will remain mum. MSNBC won’t report it. Black Panthers won’t give a shit.

    Every day blacks are being slaughtered. Every day.

    http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/Bodies-of-two-women-discovered/-/1719418/9697776/-/4qm36c/-/index.html

  204. “Hey Tigre …. like I said … LIFE.”

    Eh? (you lost me on that)

    How about Tawana Brawley? Life might have told you there was no explanation for a young girl have staged that.

    Anyway, whatever life you’ve had, you’ve got an amazing track record for getting it wrong.

    It seems there’s folks standing up (courageously from what I can tell), describing Zimmerman quite differently than what’s being said.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-friend-idUSBRE82O0FE20120325

  205. That story above is messing with my mind. I saw the news the evening they were kidnapped right off the street and I had this bad feeling they didn’t have a chance.

    5 kids have been shot in Detroit just the last 6 weeks. One was a 12 year old girl. Another a 9 month year old baby.

    MSNBC didn’t report it.

  206. I can barely type anything out with out omitting words…typos.

    My PC is broken and I’m using this shitty lap top.

    But, my main excuse is a 2 year old who thinks I’m a human jungle gym.

    He lives on my head. He’s crawling on me at all times. Farts in my face, slobbers on me, pulls my ears, pokes my eyes, sticks his fingers in my mouth.

  207. Martin was 6’2″? R, you can’t understand how Zimmerman could be overpowered?

    I went looking for a current photo of Martin. No luck But I did spot this on the NBP. If you look at the main photo there’s a picture depicted.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/black-panther-rage-10g-capture-trayvon-killer-article-1.1050370

    Is there an arrest warrant out for Zimmerman? If not, I think someone acting on the $10k bounty would guilty of kidnapping or false imprisonment.

  208. “I can barely type anything out with out omitting words…typos.”

    The solution is to not give a shit. I think you’ve seen that. 😆

    Actually, I have a physical limitation with one hand from an accident and when I don’t feel like working for it, I just peck it out best I can and figure you guys can decipher it. I’m grateful I haven’t been shouted down for my approach yet. Typing with one had ain’t easy.

  209. BTW the link I posted in 238 is all the 911 calls. It is apparent what Z says Is “fucking coons” to me. He also says before he pursues him he thinks he’s on drugs cos he’s out acting crazy in the rain. He also says “these assholes always get away”, which to me tells me that he has prejudged Martin.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Cheney finally gets a real heart. It would be awesome if it came full of compassion. He would become a changed man. 😀 I guess we’ll see.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~

    OT (like that really matters) 😉 Those Greeks are adjusting just fine with the euro mess. Cashless society, no problemo…

    In recent weeks, Theodoros Mavridis has bought fresh eggs, tsipourou (the local brandy: beware), fruit, olives, olive oil, jam, and soap. He has also had some legal advice, and enjoyed the services of an accountant to help fill in his tax return.

    None of it has cost him a euro, because he had previously done a spot of electrical work – repairing a TV, sorting out a dodgy light – for some of the 800-odd members of a fast-growing exchange network in the port town of Volos, midway between Athens and Thessaloniki.

    In return for his expert labour, Mavridis received a number of Local Alternative Units (known as tems in Greek) in his online network account. In return for the eggs, olive oil, tax advice and the rest, he transferred tems into other people’s accounts.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/16/greece-on-breadline-cashless-currency

  210. DR, this whole thing is scary. I am really worried about the consequences when the media starts in like this. They’re going to create this race war because they’ll be invested in it. It’s the same reason why Obama should not selectively join in any of these events.

    My wife started To Kill a Mockingbird. It was on her list of “didn’t read it in school, it’s time I see what this is about. Good timing.

  211. I haven’t even found anything concrete about the supposed size difference between Martin and Zimmerman.

    I’m not saying there isn’t one. But, where are you guys getting that from?

    Also, its very strange, in this facebook/camera-phone era that the only pic they use is Trayvon before puberty.

    Lastly, fakename…….I’m begging you. Could you provide the link of that phone call that gave you such an impression on how the shooting transpired?

    How can you just ignore the fact that you manufactured something so massive?

    I can’t let it go because what you did is exactly what I’ve been ranting about all weekend.

    Are you just embarrassed that you were caught red handed fictionalizing your own reality to fit a narrative that, at the very least, is being politicized to the point of dangerous rabble rousing?

    Seriously, R….am I cherry picking and just being petty?

    Because I think the lady isn’t the only one doing this type of stuff over this case. Considering the tense subject matter, you don’t find that kind of crap dangerous?

  212. I read the kid was 6 foot 3. I think some of the pictures posted look pretty recent.

    Zimmerman says in the 911 tape he looks like a teenager.

  213. Every day blacks are being slaughtered. Every day.

    Fine Rabbit … you’re right. But as heartless as it may sound, what is unusual about the case? It reads like the typical local crime stuff we see every day. Did the perps who killed these women get to walk away from their crime by police? Could the girl’s murders be linked to any unusual Detroit law? What’s “special” about the case Rabbit that makes it deserve national attention? Sadly, it’s a run of the mill local homicide.

    Don’t get me wrong … these girls’ lives are just as valuable as that of Trayvon Martin but you know full well the media doesn’t work that way. Their death DID get media attention … it was just local media.

    Did it ever cross your mind that every child abduction that gets national attention involves a little white girl, often blonde? Do you know how many black children go missing everyday?

    Truth is, Rabbit, all you’re doing is supporting the supposition that black lives don’t matter as much in this society as white ones. I can’t wait to see you track that back.

  214. It seems there’s folks standing up (courageously from what I can tell), describing Zimmerman quite differently than what’s being said.

    Yup, some of Z’s best friends are black. 🙂 The 911 tape paints the picture of a dumbass Barney Fife who feels “these assholes always get away”. I don’t dispute he had remorse after killing Martin. He probably never understood the true ramifications of playing cop and sadly the NRA and its conservative supporters fed him bullsh*t that made him think he was something he wasn’t.

    I don’t doubt that at the end of this whole thing, I could end up feeling sorry for Z.

  215. If not, I think someone acting on the $10k bounty would guilty of kidnapping or false imprisonment.

    Damn straight Skippy. I’ve already commented on the Black Panthers bounty.

    I won’t go into detail but I’ve already received through private channels alleged info on Martin that destroys the choirboy profile. I don’t know if it is fabricated and even if true, doesn’t justify his murder. Just keep watching folks … someone (maybe Fox) will run with it. You heard it here first. 😦

  216. Could you provide the link of that phone call that gave you such an impression on how the shooting transpired?

    Rabbit in defense of FN, I also heard that there was a 911 call FROM Trayvon before his shooting. But I can’t find a damn thing about it anywhere so I believe it was mis-reported.

    Now if you’re referring to the 911 call from Zimmerman, well sh*t, that’s all over YouTube. Let’s not forget Z called 911 some 40 times in the past two months over “suspicious characters”. This either makes him one friggin vigilant watch guy, or a bit of a wackjob.

  217. FWIW, it is clear that Poolman has listened to the 911 tape because everything he has said about it is true so far.

    It might be of some comfort to know that NAACP head Ben Jealous has spent the past week in Sanford, FL and reports that when he arrived, tensions were at a boiling point with the potential for riot-violence very real. Thanks to the out pour of concern via social media and the net in general, “the wheels of justice” are starting to turn and the folks in Sanford have simmered down a bit. Jealous reported that he has seen the population (across racial lines) rally behind Trayvon.

    As Sandi and I discussed tonight on our Internet radio show, things should stay calm for now. If all the Justice Dept/FBI involvement starts to look like a whitewash, then all bets are off.

  218. Pfesser, if you have some time to spare, you might want to watch the video segments from today’s “Up with Chris Hayes”. Today’s topic was atheism and it was a great discussion complete with an appearance by Richard Dawkins: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/46848311#46848311

    You can get access to all the segments here: http://upwithchrishayes.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/25/10855251-sundays-show-atheism

    Dawkins is the rudest atheist I’ve ever encountered. No wonder he sets Tex’s hair on fire. Without mentioning Romney by name, he completely condemns him for following a con artist (Joseph Smith). Damn!

  219. Well, it would appear that our Boy Bo has authorized himself to declare martial law. This on top of the PATRIOT Act, the suspension of habeas corpus and negation of posse comitatus pretty much puts the cap on it, doesn’t it?

    It’s always done the same way throughout history: put the country in a state of perpetual war and take away the People’s freedoms under the guise of “protecting” them and “national security.” All it takes is an ignorant, asleep population and boy do we have that…

    Welcome to Amerika, comrade.

    dup @ Fat Grannies

  220. “Dawkins is the rudest atheist I’ve ever encountered. No wonder he sets Tex’s hair on fire. Without mentioning Romney by name, he completely condemns him for following a con artist (Joseph Smith). Damn!”

    Well, where you stand depends on where you sit, doesn’t it? The problem in my mind is that, up to this point religion is always given a certain amount of respect and deference. Of course it doesn’t work the other way, does it? Tex et al feel perfectly at ease with name-calling and using the most vile attacks on non-believers, but suddenly get the vapors when someone responds in kind – calling it an “attack on religion.”

    If you were to tell me seriously that you believe in unicorns pooping Skittles, you wouldn’t get the time of day. The turnaround on religion – largely brought about by the “rude” Dawkins – is that you have to prove your case just the same as would anybody else with an extraordinary claim, and if you don’t, you get called on it. I wouldn’t call that being rude; I’d call it treating everybody the same.

    And in Joseph Smith’s case, just what about the term “con artist” would you argue with?

  221. I know his last name is Martin. I thought “oops” after I wrote “Baker” The name came from another shooting incident. Our computer is in a virtual hospice on our kitchen table. I use it for a few minutes and let it hibernate. I can’t afford to look at it for more than a few minutes a day for fear it will go permanently black before we have time to take it somewhere.

    Thus, I am skimming even more than usual. I believe you are right that Zimmerman would be considered Hispanic if it was his mother’s ethnicity.

    I believe this has been exploited in the same fashion as when a blond blue-eyed girl falls down a well or disappears on a high school trip. The characters are more important than the drama.

    Atheism is wrongly still a disreputable term in this country.Thus, people like Tex judge with a double standard. I think Joseph Smith believed at least some of what he taught. He was not a con artist unless he was conning himself.

    A lot of new sects emerged at about the same time. Mary Baker Eddie was leader of one.

    Did you ever think we were living in 1984? Rachel Maddow has a book called “Slide” I think. It discusses how all of our presidents since Carter have made it easier to take our country to war.

  222. Regarding Dawkins, PF, you’re preaching to the converted. I delight in his irreverence. I do feel a bit bad that he has no compunction about hurting other’s feelings.

    But all I needed to know about Mormons was their old doctrine concerning blacks and I was through with them. All the other details regarding Smith were just topping on the cake.

    And truth be told, Dawkins is right on the money when he says that it is completely legit to say to a candidate “Do you really believe a wafer is the body of Christ and wine is his blood? If so, you’re a looney and I’m not going to vote for you. You have no business anywhere near our nuclear arsenal.”

  223. James, real close. Maddow’s new book is called “Drift”. She spoke about it briefly on Meet the Press Sunday morning. It is indeed about how our country has become content with constant war. This is partly because only 1% have any skin in the game.

  224. “Yup, some of Z’s best friends are black.”

    You’re right. They should be discounted. Nah, they should never speak up in defense of their friend no matter what they believe. You’ve already determined that he’s a racist. MSNBC told you so, and there was not other reason for a White Hispanic (is that hyphenated?) than racism. In fact, the more he denies it the more it proves him to be a racist. LIFE has told you that he was racist and looking to bag him a “fucking coon.”

    Actually R, I have been doing a lot of soul searching as Obama instructed us to do. I’ve decided you’re right. In instances like this, making assumptions and jumping to conclusions about people’s motives and what happened is the best course. If we didn’t, no light would be cast on the situation and America’s war on blacks. I asked myself, “what did I do to contribute to this tragedy?” The answer, is I am white and ignored the opportunity to see that I had hand in this by allowing it to happen and supporting racists policies. . er . . . White Hispanic vigilantes. . . er. . . gun laws from a State I don’t live in. . . er. . . whatever “it” is doesn’t matter a this point. There’s possible explanation that warrants anything different than a metaphorical — hell actual — lynching.

    I want you to know that no matter what is learned (although it’s doubtful it will be anything that contradicts the narrative all of the agitators and Obama have now invested themselves in), you have convinced me that it’s time to speculate. . . er. . . make “reasonable deductions.” The opposite is more proof of my racism.

    Now let’s go get that MoFo and bring him to justice!

    Well, once I stop masturbating with my uninjured hand.

    Keep it classy R. 🙄

  225. LOL I thought you’d appreciate that masturbation line. Hey, every now and then I have to make sure the level of debate doesn’t get too lofty. 🙂

    BTW, this morning I realized an error of mine (brain fart). I actually got Law School confused with Business School. Harvard Business School is one of few business schools to teach purely via case studies and the Socratic method. So my question to you about law school turned out to be stupid. Sorry.

    Oh, either you or Rabbit asked why Obama hasn’t condemned the Black Panthers for their bounty. So I ask back at ya, at what press conference was he asked to comment on that? Obama didn’t call a presser to comment on Trayvon. He was asked about Trayvon in an unrelated presser (much like the Cambridge cop situation).

    I’m quite sure if someone in a presser asked Obama about the bounty, he would condemn it.

  226. “And truth be told, Dawkins is right on the money when he says that it is completely legit to say to a candidate “Do you really believe a wafer is the body of Christ and wine is his blood? If so, you’re a looney and I’m not going to vote for you. You have no business anywhere near our nuclear arsenal.” -R

    I would love this.

  227. OT Thought you might find this article enlightening! Microphones have big ears.

    http://apnews.myway.com/article/20120326/D9TO8DHO1.html

    SEOUL, South Korea (AP) – President Barack Obama told Russia’s leader Monday that he would have more flexibility after the November election to deal with the contentious issue of missile defense, a candid assessment of political reality that was picked up by a microphone without either leader apparently knowing.

    “This is my last election,” Obama is heard telling outgoing Russian President Dmitry Medvedev. “After my election I have more flexibility.”

    Obama’s remarks had immediate repercussions back home.

    Rep. Mike Turner of Ohio, Republican chairman of the House Armed Services Subcommittee on Strategic Forces, wrote to the president requesting an “urgent explanation of (his) comments to President Medvedev in Seoul this morning.”

    “Congress has made exquisitely clear to your administration and to other nations that it will block all attempts to weaken U.S. missile defenses,” Turner said. “As the chairman of the Strategic Forces Subcommittee, which authorizes U.S. missile defense and nuclear weapons policy, I want to make perfectly clear that my colleagues and I will not allow any attempts to trade missile defense of the United States to Russia or any other country.”

  228. R, I hate to admit this, but for a White Black you might not be as stupid as we and you family members, colleagues, priests, blog visitors, and anyone that knows you thinks.

    As I understand it, the current teaching style among virtually all accredited schools was derived from Harvard and some “Harvard Dude” that developed it. It hasn’t always been the case study method among law schools, and in act there was a time when “law school” was not a requirement (mentor protege relationships were relied upon).

    A little Google help might get me or you some particulars. But I assumed that’s what you were referring to.

    Notwithstanding what I said before the Giffords shooting, I still think you’d suck at law school. You too often refuse to separate what is with what should be, substitute outrage and prejudice for logic, and almost never endeavor to follow your arguments to their logical conclusion. You just dig your heels in. I watched you do it with Giffords, I am watching you do it now where apparently your LIFE presupposes everyone that ain’t black or White Black is motivated by racism. Other than than though, your search for truth and concern for bad precedent is overwhelming. 😆

    Now I’ll keep my “hand” off my “peace maker” and you keep you hands off our White-White women.

  229. Wow, Raji. That’s gonna leave a mark. Although it’s not like I expected that he was saying anything different on that (and a variety of other topics where he feels hemmed-in), it sure sounds bad.

    I’m sure Obama will get a pass.

  230. I was going to mention the more space comment, but Raji beat me to it.

    This is timed well for Obama. Most of us are paying attention to speculation about a shooting while this issue slips under the door.

    He shouldn’t get a pass, but his allies in the press will do what they can to give him one.

  231. “only 1% have any skin the game…” Its why we don’t have the draft. You know what would happen if many of our youth faced two to four years of inconvenience or danger.

    As I wrote before, Hispanics are non-white when the situation requires more minorities to support political power. If a white oppresser is unavailable, a White Hispanic will do.

    “Do you really believe water is the blood of Christ and wine is His blood?” Do you understand that ritual is sanctified cannabalism?” That is the question I would like to hear. No disrespect to Christians.

  232. Ah, now I “get” the White Hispanic label.

    Where do you find this stuff? Are you just a smoking gun fan?

    FWIW, again, an overboard reaction for a man not yet convicted. Of course that might not be a problem if he had been arrested.

  233. Tigre, as for my acumen as a law school student, it’s a shame it’s a hypothetical we’ll never get to test (unless I have a late-life crisis in a few years, come into some money, find some currently-absent-energy and enroll).

    I will give you this confession. In one of my final papers in “Theory of Law” my professor, Lloyd Weinreb castigated me for the following line: “And here we have another chapter in ‘Felix Frankfurter loves America'”. If I recall correctly, he said I was too judgmental. 🙂

  234. “FWIW, again, an overboard reaction for a man not yet convicted. Of course that might not be a problem if he had been arrested.”

    As I understand it, you arrest people on probable cause. Here, I understand that the determination was that the police (claim?) whatever they say and heard was consistent with a complete defense. I assume tat means “no probable cause.”

    Now what I don’t understand is why he wasn’t brought down for questioning/investigation. Zimmerman of course could have availed himself of counsel and avoided talking (the smart move no matter his guilt or innocence). From what I can tell, that didn’t occur.

    I will have you know though, there’s nothing uncommon about not detaining someone, followed by an arrest after more is known.

    I want to know what the file contains and what basis for the determination to let him go was relied upon. In other words, I’d like to more because it’s possible that detaining him was not appropriate and if there was an improper detention whether that in and of itself might have undercut a subsequent prosecution if more came to light.

    I suggest you wait and see what rationale, if any, might explain what happened before you go spouting off “he should have been arrested.”

    You think we could get a deal on those shirts?

    R, if you want to see how bad it’s gotten, look at the responses to Spike Lee’s re-tweet. Racist lynch mob is saying it mildly.

  235. Could someone tell me what lawyer in his right mind would give Trayvon’s mother counsel that it was a good idea to trademark his name? Did it not occur to her that profiting off her son’s death might make her look less sympathetic?

    — HEAD SLAP —

  236. “Did it not occur to her that profiting off her son’s death might make her look less sympathetic?”

    What about everyone else, including Obama? The vultures descend!

    p.s. R while you scoff, even the former NAACP leader saw the impropriety of Obama’s comments.

  237. Regarding 300, Tigre apparently at this point Z has obtained counsel. The attorney was interviewed, I believe, by ABC.

    As for Spike Lee, I just don’t know what to say. Retweeting Z’s address is WAY over the line. It may have been Muffy who said it but I agree it borders on incitement to violence.

    You can talk till you’re blue in the face Tigre. My article took the right tone and doesn’t come close to the over the top reaction of some of my fellow liberals.

  238. R, I bet if you killed me, you would be a white black and I would be a black white. After all, you listen to Green Day. Plus I play basket ball and wear a hoodie when I crip walk to the pub. I’m also endowed with a huge penis.

    The Panthers would put a bounty on your head.

    I’ve busted out my thesis out on the riot in Detroit that was sparked from the press changing a man’s race.

    I think it might be my opus. I even used info from a little girl’s diary that had never been read before. R, would you read it if I sent it to you. I’m quite proud of it.

  239. I might point out to you that the “NAACP leader” was actually only a chapter leader and a rare conservative in the bunch. That’s probably why he’s a ‘former” leader. 😆

    The more I think about it the more I think Obama would have been better off not saying “If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon”. I’m sure he said it because he understands the parent’s anxiety over racial profiling but he bought himself unnecessary hot water for it. His answer to the question at the presser was perfectly fine without it.

  240. R, I bet if you killed me, you would be a white black and I would be a black white. After all, you listen to Green Day. Plus I play basket ball and wear a hoodie when I crip walk to the pub. I’m also endowed with a huge penis.

    The Panthers would put a bounty on your head.

    You know, the MSM might very well spin it that way. But I wonder how they’d factor my disability into the mix? That might give me some PR points. 🙂

    Off topic, I saw on TV today the wife of the soldier accused of killing those Afghan civilians. I felt so sorry for her. She said her husband loved children. All I could think was “yeah, the husband you knew loved children. That man died when he went to war.” 😦

    P.S. Yeah, if you can figure out how to digitize that bad boy and email it to me, sure I’ll read it.

  241. If it turns out that Trayvon punched an over zealous neighborhood watch after said watch retreated towards his vehicle and then commenced smashing his head on the side walk……if this is how it went down, corroborated by a witness, maybe even more then one…..Rutherford…..would you be ok with Zimmerman using his gun in self defense?

  242. “I might point out to you that the “NAACP leader” was actually only a chapter leader and a rare conservative in the bunch. That’s probably why he’s a ‘former” leader.”

    Oh. Then he’s not “really” black.

    Sorry.

    🙄

  243. DR, you’re just making that up. R already knows who the aggressor was. Look at that young little boy scout and the eeeevil “White Hispanic.” They’re couldn’t be any more to the story.

    Case closed!

  244. “Truth is, Rabbit, all you’re doing is supporting the supposition that black lives don’t matter as much in this society as white ones. I can’t wait to see you track that back.”-R

    I do believe that black lives don’t matter to many people.

    I’m not disagreeing with you.

    In fact, I think it’s even worse then that. These same blacks are then exploited by you and your friends.

    Rutherford, you exploit black people. It’s pathetic.

    And even more amazing, I’ll go as far as to claim many black people don’t care about black people either.

    Two women murdered for “snitching” were found yesterday and Detroit is having a demonstration for Trayvon.

    Liberals only care about blacks when it serves them. Rutherford, your blog is the perfect example.

    Look how desperate you guys are to find phantom evidence of blacks being violently oppressed by whites.

    You have to use an Hispanic guy and make him white. And the dude might be totally innocent!!!!!!

    When the left plays up racial shit, it reminds of when Syria or Egypt gets their masses all pissed off over Israel so the destitute masses remain distracted.

    Did you see how many shootings took place in Chicago over St. Patty’s Weekend alone?

    I think it might have been over 40!

    Dude.

  245. Rabbit, I’m glad you added the “smashing his head on the sidewalk” part. Yeah I think that would merit a good gun shot, although preferably to maim, not kill so Z would have a chance to get away. Oh yeah, and better than an eye witness (often horribly inaccurate), I’d love a video tape. 🙂

  246. Are you having misgivings?

    Misgivings? Not exactly. The problem is the longer this goes on, the crazier it gets. The Spike Lee thing really threw me for a loop. I’ve always respected the guy to a degree. The story about the mother trademarking her son’s name also let me down a bit.

    I’m all for legit righteous outrage but I’m not a fan of crazy sh*t.

    My mother, may she rest in peace, always did tell me that as a group, black folk are crazy. If she were alive today, she’d be the first to tell me to stop defending them on this blog. 😐

    P.S. Then again, if she were alive today she’d be the first to tell me to stop the blog altogether. She wasn’t a fan of discussing politics in public. She was one of those who say you don’t discuss politics, race, sex or religion in public.

  247. “I’m all for legit righteous outrage but I’m not a fan of crazy sh*t.”

    At no time was this legit righteous outrage. This has been pure liberal exploitation of a tragedy from the outset. It really bothers me that as long as I’ve visited this blog you’ve gone for it — and been on the wrong side every damn time.

    We don’t need to wait and see whether your were right this time. The fact that you went for it without the facts or even a real understanding of what happened and assign culpability was a foul. In a way your voice and those like you that suppose too much created most disgusting aspects of this. You helped create an environment, and the so-called reasoned tome of your post rendered meaningless when you started explaining yourself.

    Now, if you want to discuss the most fascinating shit going on, the oral arguments in the Supreme Court on Obamacare represents the pinnacle. There are some mighty pointed head guys presenting sophisticated constitutional arguments. Some of the best constitutional legal scholars going head to head. Cliff Notes do it no justice (no pun intended). If you had the time to listen (and nobody really does) even with a rudimentary understanding of the issues, the opportunity to learn and seriously reflect on hardcore constitutional questions gets no better. Totally worthless if you wait for someone else to summarize it on tv. — it would be like someone describing a boxing match. You gotta see it for yourself.

    And all of it drowned out by this circus in Florida.

  248. “And all of it drowned out by this circus in Florida”.-Tigre

    There’s a lot being drowned out. Hmmm, Maybe there is something to Poolman’s conspiracy theories 😉

    Obama has just admitted that the first four years is all about being re-elected and he needs the next four to get to the “meat” of the issues. Oh well, not that we didn’t know that. Kinda scary thought!

  249. Not to pile on, but I’m having a hard time finding Rutherford’s restraint.

    The name of this blog article is “If Skittles scare you”….which right from the onset presumes Z’s guilt.

    R, you then went on to blame the police of doctoring the report, upping the ante 10 fold.

    When blogging buddies were called out on using phone calls she never heard for preliminary conclusions, you did nothing but defend because….well…..the news might have wrongly reported that one existed. Never mind that the woman was using fiction to paint a picture of what happened.

    For a while you were duped on how old the lad was. Were you also duped about how long he was in the morgue?

    You were duped that Z uttered a racial slur. Well, kind of. You use it as evidence, say its unlikely, then use for it evidence again.

    All the while you were being warned that this is creating a lynch mob mentality.

    A minority, with out any charges, was being put on Dead or Alive posters and plastered on shirts with racial insults.

    The mob mentality grew. A wealthy movie directer posted the man’s family’s address. The Nation of Islam promised quick revenge.

    All of this operating on pure speculation and, at times, outright bull shit (See Fakename/MSNBC).

    This gives me so much vivid insight on what it must have been like for a black guy during Jim Crow being blamed for, say, raping a white woman. Replace Rutherford and his buddies with white southern public. The Panthers with the Klan. MSNBC with the Dixiecrat press. The President even weighing in on what a pretty and innocent girl the victim was.

    The anger feels righteous. Facts be damned. All the while political assholes with an agenda smirk.

  250. Wow, another thread 300 comments in deep before I can catch up (damn that thing called work and life! ;-). I hate breaking in at this point which is why I usually don’t. But, one much earlier comment caught my eye, re: slut walk. If you truly do want one modern day woman’s take on the topic, I’m happy to provide.

  251. Bernanke wasn’t drowned out. Gold went straight up when he admitted more debasing was in the near future.

    If you ask the Poles, Czechs and Balts, I bet they heard Obama loud and clear. i’m guessing Romney just got more popular with those governments.

    What a major fuck up.

  252. Jesus Christ, Rabbit, could you just give it a rest? I told you where I heard it. If it turns out it isn’t true, I can live with that. Why can’t you? Or said another way, what is your point, exactly? You’ve made a far bigger deal of it than I ever did. I mentioned it once, and you have mentioned it a dozen times.
    R…two things. When you get to the point of firing a weapon, you need to be shooting to kill, for the simple fact that most people are not good enough to shoot to maim. Especially in the heat of the moment.
    Second, it was me who said Spike Lee was inciting to riot. You are confusing your liberal women 🙂

  253. No, I will not give it a rest. Its exactly the problem.

    I can live with it not being true. The question is can Zimmerman?

    What you did was join a mob and spout bull shit.

    I only mention you because it happened here. You are by far, not the only one. And that’s my point.

    Fakename, you are the story.

  254. Now R, you know how I feel about the “N” word. Anyone that uses it, as far as I’m concerned, is a racist. Period. You alluded to some dirt coming out on Martin, like being suspended for weed and steeling.

    But alas, that’s not even the point. This is where we’ve come now from all the race hustlers working to exploit this to its max. This cannot get turned off now. Even if Zimmerman is tried and acquitted, he will forever be hunted and targeted by racists like the New Black Panthers, et al. There is no justice in this- but that has never been the point for the left. In fact, justice is exactly what they don’t want because it removes the convenience of the Trojan horse.

    How you sleep at night, knowing that you are a part of this, I don’t know…

    The Daily Caller has obtained a compilation of the late Trayvon Martin’s tweets.

    The social media scan, executed on PeopleBrowsr and supplied to TheDC by the individual who performed the search, contains tweets from the last month of Martin’s life, dating to the beginning of 2012.

    Martin tweeted under the handle “NO_LIMIT_NIGGA,” an account that was closed shortly after his death.

    The image attached to the Twitter account when Martin died matches one that has been widely distributed. That photograph of Martin depicts him smiling, gold-toothed, into a camera in front of an electronic dartboard.

  255. R….I know you have a problem with people owning guns. I understand that. I don’t have one now (I just have a Doberman). But the first thing I learned from my instructor was this: don’t ever even bring it out unless you intend to kill someone. So you have to do some soul-searching to own a gun. I think most people who own guns have done that.
    I am so far very unimpressed with the defense of Zimmerman. What Neighborhood Watch volunteer carries a gun? I thought Watch meant “watch”, not shoot.

  256. Damn Gorilla……all Presidents have that bull shit moment on the campaign trail…..but, this sure takes it to an all new level.

    I have a bad feeling the Supreme Court will deem Obamacare constitutional…….if the government can mandate that you can’t even grow wheat for personal use if they don’t want you to…….I suppose they can mandate we do anything.

    Just tell me when you and 20 million other motherfuckers want to start from scratch….

  257. “I thought Watch meant “watch”, not shoot.”

    You make no sense. One carries a gun for protection. Doesn’t matter if you are a neighborhood watch or a ballerina dancer.

    You’re not making sense, as usual.

    Your basically using the fact that he carried a weapon against him.

    On the other hand, it doesn’t matter if Trayvon was a weed smoking thug. It doesn’t even matter if he was prone to violence or used the N word.

    It all comes down to the moment. Did Z shoot in self defense or not?

    According to witnesses and police, he did.

    If you really want to find a reason why Zimmerman should be charged, concentrate on the facts.

  258. It’s a lose-Lose for Obama.

    If it is found unconstitutional, then Obama- the Constitutional scholar- will not only lose his signature domestic “achievement”, but will be shown to be the moron that I believe he is.

    If it is found constitutional, then the Conservative base- which the left keeps crowing about being disinterested and unmotivated- will be fired up like nothing else. Independents voted for the GOP in 2010 because of Obamacare, they’ll vote GOP again if it means getting rid of this thing.

  259. Social media will make even the model teenager look menacing.

    I tend not to put to much emphasis on it.

    Think of all the stupid shit you said to your buddies when you were 16. Now imagine if it now is strangely ringing for an eternity online and can be printed on fancy computer paper.

    Today’s youth are total morons online. I try to warn them all the time.

    . .

  260. Very true, but I believe that ‘online’ personas are reflections of self. The handle online- mine being a reflection of reality and what is often left unsaid by the media and the left- is a window into how you think of yourself and how you want others to perceive you. Why did you pick Dead Rabbit?

    The point is, the left has worked very, very hard to create an image of sainthood of this guy because Martyrs need purity, and they need him to be a martyr. Thugs and clowns don’t win much in sympathy, which is why the left is working so hard the image of who this guy was. They’re not talking about him being 6’ 2”, because that hampers the defenseless image they need. They’re not talking about the school suspensions because that takes away from innocence projection they need. They’re not talking about his racist comments or Zimmerman’s Latino race because they need this to be about black victimhood. For the Trojan horse to work, they need all of these things to work out and they need to control the narrative of the incident.

    I agree with you 100%- it will all boil down to who attacked who first. Witness reports and the police statements leads me to believe that Zimmerman was attacked first.

    Mark my words though, if this goes to trial and Zimmerman is acquitted, the Rodney King riots will look like child’s play- and the left will love every minute of it.

  261. And all of it drowned out by this circus in Florida.

    I hate to break it to you but I’ve got one more post in me on this subject to be published tonight if I don’t fall asleep at the keyboard.

    Oh … it might comfort you that the lead story on Hardball tonight was not Trayvon. It was the SCOTUS hearing Obamacare. So the presentations to court this week will not be drowned out. I assure you.

  262. Just to throw a huge batch of gasoline on the fire, my “sources” tell me much of the information about Trayvon is being concocted by the NRA.

    Poolman, this is where you come in. I need a good conspiracy theorist to help me out here. 🙂

    P.S. Wouldn’t it be a bitch to find out that a gangsta-wannabe got plugged by a cop-wannabe? Damn. 😦

  263. Sorry R, work and face-to-face life interferes again with random blog commentary 😉

    Essentially, as best as I can sum up in a blog post comment, I grew up in an era where all the big fights were won for women’s rights. Still work to do and tweaks to fight for, but overall, we were in maintenance mode, not battle me. I didn’t have to fight for abortion being legal; I didn’t have to fight to get contraception (and also didn’t have to fight to get it as an unmarried woman); I didn’t have to fight that my clothing wasn’t a reason for rape. So I grew up and came to adulthood in an environment where I was encouraged to pursue my life as I saw fit (career, sex, relationships, fashion, etc.). I wouldn’t say I was complacent, but I though it was all pretty much established that we had won the battle.

    And without a doubt, and with studies to back it if you need it, the ability to control reproduction is the most important aspect of women maintaining control and equality in their lives.

    All of a sudden–and it does seem sudden–the attacks are on. You’re a slut if you dress a certain way. You’re a slut if you use contraception and demand it be treated the same as other health/wellness medications and doctor visits. You’re an idiot that can’t make an informed decision about whether to have an abortion (and by an extension you’re a slut if you want an abortion ’cause otherwise you’d never have the naughty naughty S-E-X!). The only reason to use contraception should be on treating conditions, not so you can control your life AND have a healthy sex life to boot (the latter making you a slut).

    Fuck. That. Noise. And one thing that we know makes the media and politicians and the supposed average American crazy is when we dress trashy. It’s in your face, raising your tents, and making you ashamed, angry, confused, and twisted in the wind over it. Because we don’t have a healthy attitude about sex and sensuality in this country. So these women who do the slut walks use that to introduce a little chaos and force the attention. Besides, a lot of us like looking sexy (and the guys like it too) and that shouldn’t be a reason for slut shaming us for wanting the same damn thing every other healthy adult wants. A great sex life, safe from rape, and the ability to plan our lives with regard to when we want to have or not have children. And if I have to put on an obscenely short skirt, thigh highs, stilettos, and plunging top to make our point over it, I’ll do it too.

    The complete and utter idiocy of the politicians who are engaged in this can best be illustrated by this comment, by Chuck Winder:

    “I would hope that when a woman goes in to a physician with a rape issue, that physician will indeed ask her about perhaps her marriage, was this pregnancy caused by normal relations in a marriage or was it truly caused by a rape. I assume that’s part of the counseling that goes on.”

    And here I’m not talking about the idiocy (which is idiotic) of a woman faking rape to have an abortion. I’m talking to the Wake up Rip Van Winkle Asshole! I don’t have to be married to have sex! Unmarried women have sex these days just like unmarried men!

    I’d pull out my old fishnets and leather corset, slap on the stilettos, and kohl my eyes if that’s what it takes to take the conversation where it needs to go. Sex is not a bad or unhealthy thing and we’re sick of it being treated as nasty and immoral and having our (women’s) health and wellness treated as nasty because of it.

  264. “R” – clear misandrist. Why are you supporting that?

    Doesn’t matter how much she denies it. Feminist is simply male chauvinist in drag. 😐

  265. Tex you live in a sick and fearful world if you think women’s sexuality and equality means hating men. There’s not a man in my circles that doesn’t cheer on the women in their lives for being sexy and accomplished.

  266. This doesn’t have anything to do with equality or sexuality – your already equal, in some cases more than equal where nature allows, and nobody gives a hoot who you sleep with or how you dress. A tempest in a teapot when it comes to female issues, which is your pattern here. Nobody but Rutherford would be impressed here with that last rant. Most of us would laugh at it – I feel confident saying that.

    In my defense, I stand by my charge with good reason.

    My wife is both professionally accomplished, far more than I am, and beautiful to boot. She’s the world’s best mom to two great daughters, of which I give her 90% of the credit for their outstanding successes. And somehow my wife manages both her job and tolerating me – truly a daunting job – while maintaining her virtue and femininity. Did I mention through all that, she still likes men?

    Still, she would say the same of you that I just did because she is one thing you are not and never will be: a lady.

  267. What on earth do you mean by retaining “virtue”? Are you using the term in it’s most antiquated fashion that your wife has never had sex with anyone other than you?

    I adore and respect men who respect and adore women. Where’s the hate there?

    I certainly don’t care whether a tiny smattering of blowhards who spend their days tearing each other apart on a blog laugh at me or not. R asked for a take on slut walks. I gave him my take. It doesn’t make me any less a lady because I don’t define lady by whatever your stunted standards of women are. Or do you want to start slinging cunt around again? That’s always your most charming commentary.

  268. Excellent points all, GypsyKat. Now then, I’ve tried to resist commenting on #334, but have lost the battle. Online “handles” are a reflection of how you think of yourself and want others to perceive you? Really? Gorilla, yours is based in reality? Well it’s good to know that you really do weigh 800 pounds and are a Great Ape. Here is the secret hidden meaning in my screen name: it isn’t my real name. I’d suggest avoiding generalities where it concerns screen names, as well as pychologizing about “The Left”. The Left “has worked very hard” and “needs” a certain narrative to be true? Who is this “Left”? From your description, I don’t recognize anyone I know in real life.

  269. “… but I believe that ‘online’ personas are reflections of self. The handle online- mine being a reflection of reality and what is often left unsaid by the media and the left- is a window into how you think of yourself and how you want others to perceive you. ”

    Only in the smallest part. An online persona and avatars in general can only ever be a slice of what a person is. My online name? An homage to the cat who lived 17 exciting and vagabond years with me. The reason I use it? So people who actually know me can identify me as me even if I’m hiding behind the name GypsyKat.

    If your online persona is the real and total reflection of you, an800lbgorilla, then I recommend a good back wax. If you only take in a person’s avatar and extrapolate that to reflect the entire complexity of a human being, I recommend a good therapist.

  270. You think there’s something virtuous and enlightening in being a wet hole for chlamydia, or some other pandemic STD?

    You obviously adore men who acquiesce to your demands – your personal doormat hiding behind your supposed persecution, probably like your husband the “gamer” (snicker) because of your pent up insecurities and daddy issues. Listen, in 50+ years, I’ve got a pretty good handle on the opposite sex when they are blowing smoke. And somebody like you is just transparent as hell. Trust me. Even from a blog, I can ascertain enough to be one hundred percent certain the one word that doesn’t apply to you is lady.

    I believe it was you who slung “cunt” around when you starting your boring monologue about the Talking Vaginas. And you believe those kind of women are appealing to real men, hey? Yeah. Okay.

    The only person I referred the word “cunt” to was Fake just to stir her up. And it did too. So what? I’m just part of your monologue. Think of me as one of the “girls.”

  271. “You think there’s something virtuous and enlightening in being a wet hole for chlamydia, or some other pandemic STD?”

    Your view of a healthy sex life is really really fucked up Tex. 50+ years of knowing women and this is what you think of sex? Or is that your fetish? So is that all there is for women? Virtuous virgins who only have sex with their forever husbands and wet holes for STD’s?

    Yeah, I’ll take a real man any day. ‘Cause I know what one is.

  272. Rutherford, I have been meaning to tell you that “Skittles” is frequent drug slang used to describe Coricidin Cough & Cold tablets …

    Coricidin contains dextromethorphan – when abused, it gives some of the same effects of recreational drugs.

    I don’t think the dumb media has ever caught on to that fact.

  273. Well, at least Gypsy you’ve admitted you were swinging loose. That’s progress. 😀

    You’re right. It’s not stunted in my world to be married and have sex with only one person. You obviously live in a more “decadent” place…

    A modern world of pandemic, incurable STDs. Now that sure is about as appealing as lower back tattoo while acquiring Hep C.

  274. Again, Tex, you have the most twisted of definitions regarding sexuality I can hardly confirm whether my sex life was swinging loose or decadent. But since I’ve freely admitted that I have had sex before meeting and marrying my husband (gasp! I’ll even admit we had sex before the I do’s!) and that–in your worldview–means I’m a wet hole for STD’s, I guess swinging loose and decadent is pretty damn tame, so yeah, I’ll own that.

    “A modern world of pandemic, incurable STDs.”

    And a modern world of ways to prevent getting one.

  275. “Now that sure is about as appealing as lower back tattoo while acquiring Hep C.”

    And not only do you have a twisted Madonna/whore complex (or at least like to pretend you do online), you know nothing about finding the right tattoo artist.

  276. And a modern world of ways to prevent getting one.

    Girl, you are naive and dumb. Nobody how worldly you think you are, you’re not. I can garner that from a blog too.

    Here’s the story you never get about MaDonna – a phony POS if there ever was one. All that crap MaDonna marketed – and who the hell would want to look at that nasty hole, I have no idea… Off limits for her own children.

    And exactly how are you going to prevent MRSA, especially the incurable serotype, Gypsy? Wear a rubber glove thick body condom, and squeegee your partner while he prods that canyon of yours? Yum yum.

    Why does it not surprised me you’re tatted and pierced? I’ve begged my two grown daughters not to past the ears – so far, they’ve been smart enough to comply.

  277. God Tex, you are so easy. Push a few buttons and you respond perfectly! But even I didn’t expect you to miss the boat so completely on the Madonna/Whore complex.

    For the record, I don’t have a single tattoo or have anything but my ears pierced. But I live in Seattle you fool. Everybody out here knows how to find a reputable tatt shop whether you have one or not. But I knew the reaction would be so predictable I couldn’t resist baiting you.

    “And exactly how are you going to prevent MRSA, especially the incurable serotype … ?”

    Not that I have to concern myself with that anymore (and haven’t for over a decade) but it’s called safe sex and choosing your partners responsibly before you have sex and oh those modern miracles of STD testing. But of course, since to you there are only virgins on wedding nights and nasty trashy whores, it doesn’t surprise me that you think anyone who has sex with more than one person their entire lives is swimming in the cess pool in your brain.

  278. Kat…trust me on this. You gotta give it up. Tex is just playing you. As the recipient of the “cunt” comment, I can tell you, he never gives up, so you have to. He will think he has “run you off” and that you are no match for his superior intellectual and verbal skills. Not to mention his unmatched talent for sexually-based insults. You will never be as good at it as he is, thank your lucky stars.

  279. Oh good lord, you think I’m trying to be as repulsive as he is? I haven’t said anything repulsive at all. At best my only insult to him was saying he might have a Madonna/whore complex and the hilarity of him thinking I was talking about Madonna the over-hyped singer instead of the Freudian complex involving the concept of the saintly Mary was practically priceless in the blogosphere realm. Unlike his reaction to the tattoo comment (which was entirely predictable), the Madonna reaction was at least surprising, hence funny.

    Anyone who has such a two-dimensional debased view of sexuality cannot be repulsive, It’s too pathetic to be repulsive. But fun to poke at when I’m bored.

  280. LOL Tex I must admit you are coming off a wee bit puritanical. I’m afraid to ask but just how do you know the extent of piercings of your daughters?

    Oh, regarding Skittles, yes I’d heard it was slang for drugs. Somehow I think the Skittles Trayvon had were … wait for it … Skittles. 🙂

    Oh back to piercing … my daughter has been told NO pierced ears until at least 13. She already knows an 8 year old boy with a pierced ear. Ewwww.

  281. Oh no, no, no, no Kat, that is not what I was trying to say. Nothing you said was replusive. What I meant was that responding to a person like this is fruitless. Either there are sainted women or there are Other Women. No distinction, no gray areas. And you are not as good as he is at baiting. Sorry.

  282. Judging a book by its cover has always been a human frailty. Many of the tatted and pierced people I know are more noble than plenty I’ve known that live out life in a suit and tie with no body art or adornment. Really, it’s what’s inside that counts.

  283. “responding to a person like this is fruitless”

    My perverse enjoyment is fruit enough, for those times when I’m bored (it’s been raining all day; now that the sun’s out and I have a Sounders match to get to, I’ll probably stop for now). As for whether I am better at baiting or not, no idea. He’s responded to my expectations, I suspect you don’t like the repulsiveness but it doesn’t bother me. He’d have to matter to me for it bother me.

    Poolman, that is but one of the many things I love about Seattle and like cities. It’s as likely a CEO of a company out here has tatts and piercings (had one CEO who had blue hair for a time) as it is the hipster youth we mock kindly.

    One of the reason’s Nordstrom customer service policy is what it is is because they do not (cannot) determine the level of wealth a person in Seattle has. A millionaire could be shabbily dressed and be worth as much as if not more than a woman walking around with Prada shoes and LV bags. So they just treat everyone extremely well and make no judgement that could hurt a sale. In my industry, it’s irrelevant as to what a person looks like, just how well they PM/test/dev/run technology. I remember in my first tech job my team had a man with the operating system logo dyed into his hair (and can’t tell you how many piercings, I lost count); a woman in the process of completing her transformation into a woman; and folks with all kinds of piercings and tatts.

  284. Gypsy,

    I just enjoy loose floozies like you thinking providing your stinking gash to any dupe is virtuous. And I guarantee you’re homely as hell, I mean, you epitomize why this world is so messed up – a father’s nightmare. We’ve gone from virtuous prude to nasty hole in two generations as what is to be admired. And you wonder why were so screwed up in this country. Filth like you is legend. I see them in Walmart or Target every time I go in there.

    There’s no way around this, Gypsy – apropos name. You’re a piece of trash – a loose, nasty piece of filth. And like I said, feminist is just a mirror image of male chauvinist. You’ve made that clear since you got here that you don’t like men, so don’t get bent when I call you a misandrist – all hardcore feminists are.

    It doesn’t surprise me that failure like Flake, who couldn’t hold a relationship to save her life would side with you. She’s the end haggardly result of a lifetime of feminist stuck with her dogs and cats talking to herself, her sister, and her books. Or Poolman (snicker) who needs no explanation. Married to a gamer. He’ll dump you if he ever grows up, and you’ll end up like Flake.

  285. Floozie? Such an adorable term. Stinking gash? So indicative of your attitude towards women.

    You go to Walmart and Target? No wonder you never run into a decent woman. Wouldn’t be caught dead in either place.

    Baited and hooked. Tex you are so predictable. (Sounders were losing when I left, bored now.)

  286. Oh, poor little girl. If daddy hadn’t abandoned you to the gamers.

    Of course you wouldn’t go to a Walmart or Target. A tatted skank like you is under the delusion she’s beautiful and talented – above all that. In reality, you’re a diseased ridden, untalented dreg to be mocked – like Flake.

    Predict that, canyon gash. 😉

    May I remind you idiot, I’ve been married once to the same woman, whom I love dearly? What I loathe are whining, feminist, amoral, misandrist twits like you that, always whimpering about how mean men are.

    You’re the kind of dumbass found at every Four Bucks, I mean Star Bucks drinking over priced, burnt latte, hanging with the rest of the superficial greasy gamers.

  287. Yup, predictable as ever! Doubling down on every stereotype you can think up. But even though you aren’t at all creative, now you’re just getting repetitive.

    Just like I don’t have a tattoo, won’t go to WalMart, and can’t find my way around an Xbox controller (thank goodness there’s a standard remote option for non-game Xbox functions), I don’t go to Starbucks either. We can at least agree that all you get there is a burnt latte.

  288. Yeah, what is it with Starbucks’ popularity? I love a good coffee and theirs is ALWAYS burnt tasting. I know it is the way they roast their beans. Apparently they do it that way intentionally. And people flock to them. WTF?

    The first time I tried them, I thought it was just old coffee burnt from sitting too long on a burner. But after the same flavor the second time, I decided that it was nasty by design. Yuck! And they ARE very pricey and always very busy.

  289. Starbucks secret is its ubiquitous distribution. They have GPS satellites (not kidding, knew a VP of marketing there) that monitor streets and corners of potential new locations and when the density of car or foot traffic reaches a certain level, they open a store. That’s why in places like Seattle and San Francisco you will see Starbucks on both sides of the same street. I remember being on a business trip in San Fran and though there was only three blocks between my hotel and the office there were four Starbucks in my path. All full. Americans routinely prioritize convenience over quality. My sister swears one day we will discover some addictive additive in Starbucks drinks because how else would we be so addicted to something so not quality.

    And Tex, gamers don’t hang out at Starbucks either. How could they? Then they’d be away from their Xboxes and Playstations. While I fully accept that you know nothing about women beyond your Madonna/whore complex, at least get your stereotypes somewhat right when you create your paper doll visions of your own gender.

  290. GypsyKat, Tex is an old time veteran on this blog and his MO is well known. Once he decides that he differs politically from any woman who visits here, he launches as vile a campaign as possible, in the hopes of driving said woman off the board. (He often brags how he makes his opponents run from the blog with their tail between their legs.)

    The fact is that if his dignified wife ever read half the garbage he writes here, he would be sleeping on the couch for at least a few days. 😉

  291. Rutherford, you don’t know me near as well as you may think, and you certainly don’t know my wife. You go ahead and pacify and lie to this skank, because it’s the same line you fed Flake and it was no more true then than it is now. Two misandrists, and I’m not apologize fighting crudeness with crudeness.

    My wife would find not only Skank and Flake reprehensible and an embarrassment to womanhood, but you an incredibly weak fool and would question why I spend my finite time on earth with a man of your vacuous character.

    Don’t kid yourself.

  292. R, I know a troll when I see one. If he thinks his unoriginal and repetitive rants are even near as eyebrow raising as to what was on old IRC he’s as addled as he is predictable. I don’t need to shy away from an otherwise somewhat interesting group of people because of a wanna be 4chan troll.

  293. My wife would find not only Skank and Flake reprehensible and an embarrassment to womanhood, but you an incredibly weak fool and would question why I spend my finite time on earth with a man of your vacuous character.

    Good timing … it’s almost bedtime.

    Yawn. 😐

  294. Ironic, that our resident enlightened and hip “genius” is fond of redundantly and tediously using “predictable” in every post as pejorative.

    But she won’t catch the paradox of her own “predictability” or mundane nature.

    zzzzzzzz

    Lame.

  295. One other thing Rutherford, being I’ve never found you terribly perceptive at anything other that the topic of the day damaging to the left-wing of the Dimocratic party. Then you’re a giant. 😀

    You somehow find my loathing of GypsyTwat and Flake as chauvinistic?

    What you haven’t noticed, I’ll assume, is the one constant feature of all their dissatisfying relationships is them. That is the premise of dysfunctional and the definition of cognitive dissonance – your theme of the month.

    Perhaps the problem rests with you and yours not being able to decipher truth from fiction, light from day, bitter from sweet.

  296. While I fully accept that you know nothing about women beyond your Madonna/whore complex, at least get your stereotypes somewhat right when you create your paper doll visions of your own gender.

    You’re as stupid and naive as you are “predictable.” It humors me you actually consider yourself gifted. That is what I like about you libbie, Gen 44 types – comically transparent. The Disney Channel.

    Let’s see…

    Somehow I’ve been married for a quarter of century to the same woman whom I adore, have two daughters raised, grown, and wonderfully accomplished with a dad that would do anything for them, have a mother I love, a grandmother who helped raise me for a time, have only a sister and no brothers, and frankly have been surrounded by females from the time of my birth probably until the time of my death. A few females are really good friends from high school, who I still socialize with my wife’s approval. I take care of the widow across the street, and a single gal around the block. Yet you believe I know nothing about women?

    You would have been more accurate to say I know nothing about men, because women folk have dominated my life.

    Humorous, even if inane. And none of them think, act or look like MaDonna whores.

    However, you do and all the above mentioned would find your version of femininity reprehensible and cheap. Superficial stinking slug slime, slithering along the Avenue of Spread Eagle, foolish enough to believe she’s got it figured out. You’re a fruit loop and a hedonist with no redeeming value whatsoever, twit.

    And I guarantee your husband is an aloof goof, dweeb, and punk with body funk, probably not smart enough to bathe – an OWS. A piece of corrugated cardboard stiffed by a misandrist with deep daddy issues.

    No man of any worth is going to be married to some smarmy, profoundly stupid, mouthy skank like you and tolerate it for long, even if he was dumb enough to marry you. But I’ll bet you can suck a grapefruit through garden hose.

    You’ll end up like Flake – talking to your cats and your sister, all alone.

    //Troll that, bitch.

  297. You somehow find my loathing of GypsyTwat and Flake as chauvinistic?

    You took a bit of a logical leap there Tex. I don’t recall labeling your behavior chauvinistic. At its most benign, juvenile, at its worst, pathological.

    Perhaps I need to put Kat’s blog under a microscope but I’ll be damned if I can understand what evidence you have to attack her husband.

    A few females are really good friends from high school, who I still socialize with my wife’s approval.

    There we have a wee bit of common ground. I think I told you this before but I didn’t allow a temporarily disabled female co-worker in my car before I ran it by my wife first. (Said female was instrumental in my corporate demise subsequently. 👿 )

    Finally, you keep mentioning Madonna the pop star in response to GypsyKat’s Madonna/whore complex. Maybe I’m out of touch but the Madonna she’s referring to is the virgin Mary.

  298. You know partner, I could say the exact thing of you about your obsession of Sarah Palin/Michelle Bachmann/Ann Coulter routine that dominated your blog for two years – and those are women you haven’t even conversed with, unlike this abortion I’m referencing.

    But you’ll note what started this was simply my referring to your nauseating grovel to this misandrist – chauvinist in drag. She wanted to escalate it – I’m always game, for a time. Haven’t done it since I left this miserable blog. 😀

    Like I said, I loathe this cheap, younger slugs like Cat – if you wish to consider my disdain of pop feminist dingbats a neurosis or some pathology, I can live with that.

    The “attack” on her ‘dude zombie survivalist’ 😆 is the shot across the bow of her referring to his XBox affinity. I hardly call it an attack – more pity for the stupid SOB who married this hedonist.

    Who knows with MaDonna? But I’ll assume it was to my initial reference. Gypsy, of course, being the antithesis to anything pure or virtuous.

    I know you find me prudish… 😆 Especially the blow job reference – the one thing Gypsum would probably excel.

  299. Except I have two children, “R”, which if memory serves is one more than you have and my wife is beautiful.

    So, I don’t think the Madonna-whore complex would apply to me, because if there is one thing that is still very, very, very healthy about me, it’s my libido and I like sex and I married a beautiful woman. If you saw my two daughters, that would be confirmed. Trust me…

    Frankly, I had to look up the definition, because I thought many, many years ago in a Sociology class, I had learned that term applied to women. 😆 It must have been shoved out of the memory banks.

    The problem I have concerning my flaccid paralysis of women like Gypsy Kat would not be an aversion to sex, that I’m a prude or that I’m a psychological eunuch, but that her physical form would be unappealing, and her bacterial stench a real turnoff.

    It’s not that complicated.

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