Must Be ACORN (Plus My Endorsement)

Must be ACORN

When the news came down today that the Iowa caucus results announced earlier this month were bogus, Republicans across the country were outraged. Tallies from eight precincts are hopelessly lost. Santorum is as of today, the winner of the caucus but we’ll really never know who won.

George Will said, “This is a travesty of justice!”

Erick Erickson cried, “Voter fraud such as this cannot stand!”

Andrew Breitbart exclaimed, “It’s a Catholic conspiracy against the Mormons!”

Rush Limbaugh belched, “This, my friends, is just another nail in the coffin of a free America, hammered in by socialist saboteurs.”

Well, actually none of those quotes are real. I made them all up. In fact, there doesn’t appear to be a single Republican upset that the Iowa caucus resembled an election in a banana republic or perhaps Afghanistan or Iraq. No outrage or finger-pointing. Just an “oh well, maybe Santorum really won, maybe he didn’t.”

Remember this in November when the GOP screams voter fraud upon Obama’s reelection.

My Endorsement

I am making history today by offering a limited endorsement. This endorsement only extends to the South Carolina primary but make no mistake, this endorsement is sincere.

This Saturday I am urging all primary voters in South Carolina to vote for …

Herman Cain

Yes, you read that right. Earlier this week, comedian Stephen Colbert made the point that he could not get on the presidential ballot in South Carolina even if he wanted to. Deadlines have long since passed. But he made the equally valid point that Herman Cain, despite dropping out of the race, cannot get off the ballot. So with a wink and a nod, Colbert suggested that a vote for Cain is a vote for Colbert.

I am fully with Colbert on this one. It’s time we made South Carolina a true protest vote. A vote for Cain/Colbert is a statement that:

  1. We are tired of this clown car masquerading as serious contenders for the presidency and
  2. We are disgusted with what the Citizens United decision has wrought, where money equals speech and corporate and lobbyist interests now have the biggest voice.

Using his, wups, I mean Jon Stewart’s Super PAC money, Colbert has launched several ads in South Carolina to get his point across including the Cain as Colbert vote initiative.

Vodpod videos no longer available.

Citizens of South Carolina, go out on Saturday and vote for Herman Cain knowing that a vote for Cain is a vote for Colbert and a vote for Colbert is a vote to stop the insanity!

Respectfully,
Rutherford

WordPress.com Political Blogger Alliance

188 thoughts on “Must Be ACORN (Plus My Endorsement)

  1. Was there fraud? Is Santorum outraged? It does not alter the number of delegates that Santorum or Romney will receive at the national convention. The Iowa caucuses do not decide that.

  2. Well I think with the new proportional awarding of delegates, the new outcome actually makes very little difference. Santorum and Romney will probably get an equal number of delegates from Iowa, with Ron Paul getting fewer and the rest getting nothing.

    Why would Santorum be outraged, the new count has him as the winner. In tonight’s debate it was quite amusing to see Santorum crow about it in his humble sort of way, and Mitt make a crack along the lines of “If I had anything to do over again in the campaign, I would have snagged those 35 votes in Iowa.” Everyone laughed, ha ha ha. No one cried “OMG, we need James O’Keefe to investigate this!!!!”

    Was there fraud? Tigre, eight friggin precincts LOST their vote counts. Fraud and gross incompetence are a distinction without a difference when it comes to voting.

    But in November, if one precinct in the US of A loses its ballots and Romney loses the election, I guarantee James O’Punk will be back on the case.

  3. I recommend you boys and girls watch the first five minutes of tonight’s debate. Newt Gingrich so thoroughly humiliated the moderator John King that I’m shocked King didn’t just break down and cry. I’m no fan of Gingrich but this was an Oscar worthy performance that got him a standing-o.Watch dumb-ass John King try to weasel out of being a weasel.

  4. Obama: 0/1

    The Facts:

    The ad attempts to push back against a slashing ad attack on Obama’s clean-energy initiatives by a group called Americans for Prosperity, a conservative group, and accurately quotes from an ABC analysis that said the ad “contains claims that are not tethered to the facts.”

    The Obama ad that quickly slips in claims that slickly appear to be the result of Obama’s policies, though the ad does not directly make that claim—a reference to 2.7 million clean-energy jobs, a note that for the first time in 13 years foreign oil imports are below 50 percent.

    Those figures are correct, but they are also not tethered to anything Obama has done. Thereport that mentioned the 2.7 million jobs simply said that is how many potentially exist. Meanwhile, the Energy Department cited a host of reasons why foreign oil imports have declined, noting the main reason was “a significant contraction in consumption” because of the poor economy and changes in efficiency that began “two years before the 2008 crisis”—ie, before Obama took office.

    Then, in bold type, the ad proclaims: President Obama “kept a campaign promise to toughen ethics rules” and it cites: “PolitiFact, 1/21/09.”

    Politifact did write that on Jan. 21, 2009, but then it almost immediately changed its ruling as Obama began granting waivers to his ethics policy.

    We had originally given this a Four Pinocchio ruling because we believed the campaign had ignored the fact that PolitiFact had changed its ruling. Instead, it turns out it cherry-picked one ruling while ignoring the other negative one. That’s pretty slippery, but it is more of a three Pinocchio violation rather than a Four, so we are revising it downward..

  5. We had originally given this a Four Pinocchio ruling because we believed the campaign had ignored the fact that PolitiFact had changed its ruling. Instead, it turns out it cherry-picked one ruling while ignoring the other negative one. That’s pretty slippery, but it is more of a three Pinocchio violation rather than a Four, so we are revising it downward..

    This actually makes no sense to me. “We believed the campaign had ignored the fact …” is the same thing as “cherry-picked one ruling while ignoring the other negative one.” Maybe my English is challenged this morning. Can someone decipher that last paragraph for me?

  6. “But in November, if one precinct in the US of A loses its ballots and Romney loses the election, I guarantee James O’Punk will be back on the case.”

    As you say, that’s apples and oranges.

    And there’s a huge difference between fraud and incompetence in vote tallying in a party’s nomination.

    Spare us the fake attempt to level some claim of hypocrisy. You’re barking up the wrong tree.

  7. Huck, Sheldon’s “river of excrement” comment is classic. 🙂

    Oh Huck, off topic but … I’m basically as caught up on Breaking Bad as I can be until the season just ended comes out on DVD. Damn, that is one good show and Giancarlo Esposito is one of the most interesting TV villains I’ve seen in a long time.

    P.S. I could watch last season if I were willing to shell out the money to watch it on Amazon but since I already subscribe to Netflix, I’m waiting for the DVD.

  8. I like my tree just fine Dawwwwg. When lost votes occur within the confines of the party, GOPhers don’t seem to have a problem. How do you know it was incompetence anyway? How do you know it wasn’t fraud? Why no investigation?

    Oh yeah … I LOVES my tree! Bark Bark Bark!

  9. Poolman while I agree that Newt being the moral compass is funny as hell, I also have to say John King may have just given the South Carolina primary to him. I can’t remember the last time I’ve seen a member of the media make such a bonehead move. If I were a conspiracy theorist, I’d say King and Gingrich were in cahoots on this one. It just played out too perfectly.

  10. You sound like a fucking moron.

    Wasn’t this the closest primary election in Iowa history?

    Now, if this was like Minnesota and Frankin was finding votes in closets, truncks, etc, -all at the expense of Coleman- then I might have concern. But this was technically the first full recount of all votes. Not surprising really, and at this point, it won’t really matter…

  11. “How do you know it was incompetence anyway? How do you know it wasn’t fraud? Why no investigation?”

    I don’t know. This is your journey maaaaan. Who says there isn’t someone looking into it? Why are you surprised this isn’t making people jump up and down when it’s of no real consequence? Santorum’s not going to have the nomination.

    Talk about a tempest in a tea pot. You need to worry about the fuck-up-in-chef you will be voting for instead of pretending you give a shit bout the GOP primaries.

  12. If I were a conspiracy theorist, I’d say King and Gingrich were in cahoots on this one. It just played out too perfectly.

    Nah! They’d never stage anything like that. 🙄 These are ALL spontaneous, unscripted nationally sponsored and televised events.

    Next you’ll be telling me the tooth fairy is a myth, or peak oil is a farce, or meteors don’t pose any threat, or fluoride is industrial waste, or…

  13. Some more ACORNS…

    Justice Department coordinates suits with ACORN’s Project Vote


    Despite all this, documents obtained recently by Judicial Watch via the Freedom of Information Act suggest that President Obama — who was employed by Project Vote as a community organizer early in his career — and Attorney General Eric Holder have no qualms about working closely with present and former ACORN and Project Vote operatives on voter registration drives aimed at people on public assistance. Take, for example, an April 2009 letter to deputy assistant attorney general Sam Hirsh from former ACORN attorney and current Project Vote director of advocacy Estelle Rogers. She described preparations for a subsequent meeting about Department of Justice plans concerning National Voter Registration Act litigation in states deemed not being sufficiently aggressive in registering public assistance recipients.

  14. “P.S. I could watch last season if I were willing to shell out the money to watch it on Amazon but since I already subscribe to Netflix, I’m waiting for the DVD.”

    There are other ways. Shall I email you?

  15. Gorilla, I have to share this with you.

    Last night I was out schmoozing with some lawyers in an area of Atlanta called Buckhead. It used to be bar-hopping and dance club central, but has since died with the exception off few higher end bars, restaurants and hotels.

    Walking back to my car, a shiny new car driven by an extremely attractive woman in her 20s rolls up along side me and lowers he window. I assumed she was going to ask for directions. Instead, she says “would you like to have some company?”

    Got that? A call girl cruising for Johns in a new car.

    It got me wondering what would happen if she were a cop and I had said yes. She solicited me. That would have to be entrapment (BiW if you know differently let me know).

    So after we had sex, I asked her. . . . just kidding. When I shook my head “no” she said “well, I’ll be looking for you if you change your mind.”

    Damndest thing though. I’d never heard of “business” being conducted that way. It guess it does make some sense though. The prostitute gets to select and has some control over her environment, she could probably detect whether there were cops based on their conduct (prowling the streets etc).

    There again, maybe she really was just looking for company with a man of my rugged good looks. 😆

  16. So Newt says wife B is lying, and as a witness he pulls up a friend of wife C, the adultress. I guess I’ll use Tex’s logic about Michael Moore, if it isn’t true, why isn’t he suing someone. I believe the same story was published months ago in Vanity F. If you don’t want people exposing the details of your affairs, don’t have affairs. And don’t impeach sitting Presidents for having affairs. Family values … whatever. What a bunch of hypocrites.

    Release your taxes Mitt. Any offshore accounts? Whatcha hiding?

  17. “And don’t impeach sitting Presidents for having affairs.”

    Yeah. Ignore perjury, relations with a junior staff member, getting your cabinet and staff to lie for you, making decisions to launch an attack to distract from the scandal too. Same things. 🙄

  18. “I guess I’ll use Tex’s logic about Michael Moore, if it isn’t true, why isn’t he suing someone.”

    Sue his ex for defamation? In the middle of a campaign no less?

    What’s the Tex/Michael Moore comment in reference to?

  19. LOL I’m always amused by which comments are directed at particular members of “the board”. Case in point, Tigre’s cruising hooker story (which is mind blowing). Has Gorilla established himself as a lover of the red light district? Did I miss a mini-thread somewhere? 😆

    BTW Tigre, your suggestion that she is somehow safer with this approach is ludicrous. It’s like saying picking up a hitchhiker is safer than hitchhiking itself. The minute both parties are in the car, control is out the window and whichever person is the dangerous one has the upper hand.

    Are you absolutely sure that woman wasn’t someone from your sordid past? 😉

  20. That’s awesome. Of course, your studly manliness may have been all there was to it,but then again, you and I know that doesn’t happen- no matter how manly we might be.

    I am curious what her rates would be.

    😉

  21. Tigre, I think your silver prediction may unfortunately be wrong. Its up 17 percent since your bearish shot was fired.

    Of course its silver. So it could tank 32 percent next week.

    I really don’t want a frothy silver market this year. I was hoping (and actually thinking) we would be heading to the low 20’s. I want buy boat loads of the stuff. Another silver bubble is not in my interest.

  22. A lover of the red light? No, but I was a West Coast sailor, which means I’ve spent a lot of time in Asian countries. I may not buy the wares, but I’m very familiar with the shops!!!

    A whole new meaning to ‘window shopping’.

  23. “Tigre, I think your silver prediction may unfortunately be wrong. Its up 17 percent since your bearish shot was fired.”

    Patience. Housing prices were at their peak right before the collapse too.

  24. “Looks can be deceiving.

    Maybe she wanted your wallet AND your car. Just sayin…”

    Or maybe she just wanted my wallet OR my car. 😆

  25. Poolman, I finally got a chance to completely read the Rothschild Banking Cartel theory that you posted and all I can say is, if true, I hope Ron Paul has plenty of bodyguards. 😐

  26. I’m actually on a fence about this whole tax return thing. Part of me finds it an invasion of privacy. Apparently if you are in Congress a good amount of info about your private finances is already public, hence Ron Paul’s refusal to release his returns.

    I liked Santorum’s excuse for not releasing his … they’re on his hard drive at home.

  27. “Patience. Housing prices were at their peak right before the collapse too.”

    The problem is silver is nowhere near its May 2011 peak.

    If silver ever breaches the 50 dollar resistance line, look out…all bets are off…literally!

    Personally, I believe in being long in silver for industrial reasons more then Ron Paul doom.

    Every one of these new middle class Chinks demands a smart phone. Everyone of them. And there is silver gobbled up forever in those things.

    That being said, the Rabbit pays attention to the silver gold ratio. Silver made some traction on gold this week. A rarity.

    I’m also kind of tight with cash flow since it’s my wife’s birthday and her idea of a gift isn’t a 20 stack of silver eagles.

    So..I stayed away from silver..I bought a Krugerrand instead. uhhhh….just a tiny one. Always wanted one since Lethal Weapon 2.

    I’m going to make a prediction. Silver is going to get thumped on Monday. 1% drop at the least. If I still did the option thing, I would buy some puts for Feb. Any one want to make 200% profit in 24 to 48 hours? Buy puts for Feb. Something out of the money. And dump it quick. Ahh…the good ol” days.

  28. Amazing what a difference a few years make. Now if you mention Mel Gibson the first thing that comes to mind is antisemitic blowhard.

    Kinda like Tiger Woods. One day most skilled golfer on the planet. Years later, sex addict.

    Hey Rabbit, are there any heroes left?

  29. Tebow or Hitler?

    P.S. That was one of the funnier set of subtitles I’ve seen for that clip. I’ll have to see if I can find out who started the spoof of that scene. It’s become an American pastime.

  30. poolman –

    Great Ron Paul video (as are they all).

    I need to pick up a head/neck course sometime in the next year or two. The best is Ric Harnsberger/Ann Osborne in Salt Lake. Are you anywhere near there?

  31. It’s Ron Paul or Obamney. I certainly cannot in good conscience go with Romney and I need many more reasons to give Obama a second term. With 10 months to go, I only see RP gaining support.
    Are you anywhere near there?
    Nearly the same longitude, but due south of Salt Lake, about 700 miles by freeway. We do have plenty of Mormons here, though. In that respect some have said it’s about the same. 🙂

  32. Between his pipeline decision and his uranium mining ban, King Obama has killed a lot of jobs this week….

    I think every person who would have been..or was employed by those jobs should write Obama a letter. We know how effective those write-in letters are at dictating our domestic polices.

  33. Steven Colbert is a fucking asshole and anyone who believes his idiocy has a single thing to do with SuperPACs is a dumbass.

    It’s nothing but a publicity stunt. This moron was “running for president” in 2008, long before there was any mention of Citizens United.

    It figures that it would get Rutherford to giggle like a little girl….

  34. I think the pipeline decision was good and took balls to nix. The majority of the public was behind his decision. Temporary jobs are the only loss and the oil was to be refined and shipped out of the country. Besides, it takes 4 times the energy to refine oil from these tar sands. The environmental impact alone is too great.

    Then there’s the way it would cut through and divide the nation, threatening underground water supplies. Posing as a “terrorist” target, it would be rife with Homeland Security personnel.

    There is so much obsession with job creation, regardless of overall benefit. Do you realize how many government jobs we support between employees and contractors? How about that Homeland Security department? Those are not helping our economy for the most part. They cost us way more than they benefit the communities these folks live and spend their income in.

    We need to be building self-sustaining communities and back off of this global dependence we have so readily taken on. I, for one, am tired of filling my home with products made in China.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Stephen Colbert is a comedian. He is a “faux” conservative and his humor is intelligent. I find his stuff quite humorous and it makes me giggle. He is all about publicity and stunts. Sorry if you don’t get that. You got Dennis Miller.

  35. The Keystone decision was politically motivated and shows where Obama’s interests really — Obama. Everything Poolman said is pure, unadulterated b.s.

    Good luck with Ron Paul. Write him in if need be.

  36. Steven Colbert is a fucking asshole …

    How is he an asshole? Funny, witty, intelligent, and brilliant at skewering the institutions that have a become a mockery. Whether you like him or not, how is he an asshole?

  37. Kat beat me to it. Clearly Colbert is a matter of taste but his entire raison d’être has been to mock conservatism by being a mock-conservative. He is a walking talking put-on of O’Reilly and to his credit, he almost never breaks out of character in his public appearances. Must frustrate the crap out of conservatives which is why I love him all the more.

    The 2008 “run” was more of a gag. This time Colbert really is out to prove a point.

    Huck if you wanna really call someone a f*cking assh*le why don’t you get your panties in a knot over the boys at PPP? It was their inclusion of Colbert in a poll that put him ahead of Huntsman in SC that fed into Colbert’s current “mission”.

    I’m dead serious, even though it stands no chance of happening, I would love to see Herman Cain get the most votes today just to put up a big middle finger to the whole process. If we’re lucky, Cain will get more votes than Perry who I assume is also still on the ballot.

  38. I am really struggling with Newt Gingrich. Perhaps I shouldn’t be? The knee-jerk liberal reaction is that he is a racist. Here is my problem:

    I DO believe working is better than welfare. I DO believe that most blacks agree with me. So the question with Newt is does he believe that blacks are lazy and don’t want to work or does he believe the current administration makes it harder for blacks to find and keep jobs? Clearly if he believes the former, then f*ck him and the horse he rode in on. If he believes the latter he better start articulating it better.

    On Friday he doubled down and suggested that Juan Williams doesn’t understand the concept of work. Dangerous talk coming from a man whose racial prejudices are ambiguous at best.

  39. Music truly is the universal language. I don’t see how the most rabid Obama hater can’t at least smile at this clip of Barack singing Al Green. Makes him look very human in my eyes. (And he seems to have a decent set of pipes too.)

  40. “I am curious … what exactly is Veterans Today’s gripe with Jews?”

    I would put a grand on Veteran’s Today being Iranian backed.

    Lets say there exists a group of veterans in which one of their gripes is current mid-east foreign policy.

    Fine. I can buy that.

    But, there is no way they would be so obsessed with Israel that more then 50% of all their output would revolve around it.

    Real veterans “today” aren’t much different from veterans any other generation, when it comes down to it. They want to find a woman, a job and get a house. That is what’s on the minds of most veterans.

    Sure, the American Legion is somewhat politicized. Every now and then they weigh in on shit debated in the public forum, usually leaning right. But, when it comes down to it, they really are just a group looking out for the simple things in vet’s lives. In other words, they are not “Hanitized” like Veterans Today is “Mullahized”

    Poolman loves exploiting Vets. That’s why he will never go to an American Legion post or VFW hall to talk. Always online. Always with a proxy website.

  41. Hey Rabbit, since you’ve weighed in, to what do you attribute Ron Paul’s popularity among veterans and current military? Do you believe Paul’s assessment that these guys are sick and tired of all the wars?

    Gorilla, any thoughts on Paul’s popularity among the men in uniform?

  42. Poolman is an anti-Semite. R, curious that you won’t call him on it while you cast stones about others potential racism or Islamophobia.

    What’s the problem with Newt telling the truth. Too hard t get past your stereotypes to simply admit that? ‘Case that’s why your struggling with it.

  43. “So the question with Newt is does he believe that blacks are lazy and don’t want to work or does he believe the current administration makes it harder for blacks to find and keep jobs?”

    I think it’s safe to generalize, blacks are lazy. For starters, It takes work and sacrifice to lay down the foundation for a family.

    That’s one the quickest routes to poverty right there. Not getting married.

    90% of black children go on food stamps once in their lives. Rutherford, do you think racism is such a factor that 90% of all black children need Nanny to step in feed them at least once in their lives? I don’t. If you do, its a travesty how little you blog about it.

    Way too many blacks are lazy. And their white plantation owners, the liberals, are too elitist to promote blue collar jobs. I worked in the trades for almost a decade. I can’t believe how few blacks are in the trades.

    Where are the black roofers? Plumbers? Carpet layers?

    http://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/15000.aspx

  44. “I think it’s safe to generalize, blacks are lazy.”

    That being said, i should probably point out that stereotyping an individual, despite the reality of the situation in macro terms, is a terrible thing to happen. And I know it does happen.

  45. I used to roof the old houses of Detroit. Sure, we would compete with Mexican crews. But, the only black roofing crew I ever saw were made up of black fire fighters. Obviously, I know there are some. But, why were so many of us whitey’s doing all the work in black neighborhoods?

    How could a city so black still have Pollock roofers and Italian concrete guys? Never made sense to me.

  46. Hey Rabbit, since you’ve weighed in, to what do you attribute Ron Paul’s popularity among veterans and current military?” -R

    The active military is much more apolitical then you think. So, don’t get the idea that there are political discussions going on all over the barracks and ships. It aint like that.

    That being said, I think Ron Paul would have appealed to me when I was in. Claiming Ron Paul would be a safe, anti-authoritarian vehicle of expression. There is a certain draw to that when you are in the military. Particularly to a twenty something year old.

    Do you know how many active military talk about growing their hair out and smoking a joint when they get out?

    A ton.

    Yet, the reality is they don’t. They become contractors and Republicans!

    A gross generalization, for sure.

    But, you have to understand that almost every active service member dreams of freedom. Even guys who re-up. It’s vague. Blurry. Even unrealistic.

    Ask Gorilla. Talking about what you plan on doing with your freedom once you get out is a major past time. Little do they know that they will get nostalgic and miss the comradeship.

    Agree or disagree with Ron Paul. The guy is freedom personified.

  47. “But it’s hunky dory, hare brain, for this “American” newspaper to suggest the Mossad take out a president?”-FoolmaE

    Who said it’s ok?

    Even the article you linked to described the newspaper as “obscure”.

    So, an angry Jew threatened Obama. Throw the book at him. What do you want me to say?

  48. Rutherford –

    re: Newt-the-racist (and I’m no fan of Newt’s)

    FYI, and this is just me.

    When you – or anyone – says “racist” or brings out the race card, I roll my eyes, say “Fuck here we go again; get a life” ignore everything that comes after, and move on. It’s just too easy and it doesn’t work on me anymore. I’m impressed by people who WORK, people who suck it up and say, “Yep, life’s unfair” and go right BACK to work. I just chalk up the racial stuff as whining; if you are being discriminated against, then by god do something about it; I don’t want to hear it.

    Could just be me, but I think a lot of other folks feel the same way.

  49. Rabbit your analysis is incredibly simplistic. First of all, most of the folks on food stamps are white. So there goes that argument.

    Second, the trades more than any other business sector hire family and “friends” so blacks are likely to be employed by the few black owned businesses. You know this is true.

    Those fire dept roofers that were black. Was that a mixed crowd? I doubt it. Fire departments are notorious for segregation. Again particularly among volunteer fire depts, it’s a buddy system.

    Sorry Rabbit. You’re a good fair man but I think you’re racially tone deaf.

  50. Pfesser everything has a micro and a macro view. On a micro level, I agree with you. Get knocked down, get back up and try again. Success is the best revenge especially against bigots.

    On a macro level there are policies that discourage poverty and those that encourage it. If Gingrich is saying policy is the problem then I want to hear more from him. If he is saying people (blacks in particular) are the problem then I can’t sign up for that. Not on a macro level.

  51. Dude. Are you that much of a coward that you feign ignorance, even when the stats are in your face.

    Are there “more” whites on welfare? Of course there is! Most of the country is still white.

    90 percent OF ALL BLACK KIDS SPEND TIME ON FOOD STAMPS. How can you chose to ignore this or down play it verges on gross negligence.

    Pathetic you have to play games and give me the most canned of responses.

    Secondly, you are so wrong about the trades.

    Getting a job on a roofing crew or concrete crew has nothing to do with family.

    A good laborer is always needed. I have on more then one occasion just walked to the worksite and was hired that minute. No tools needed.

    Stick to the stuff they teach you at Harvard. You know nothing about the working class.

  52. Pfessor,

    Don’t you admit to being a racist? I remember you staunchly defending the theory that blacks are biologically predisposed to be stupid and violent.

  53. I’m an anti-Semite? 😆 Is that supposed to be a real insult? Maybe if you look up the definition of Semite, you’d realize how ignorant that statement truly is. Or not.

    You guys are calling blacks lazy? I think so-called “conservatives” are the lazy ones. They don’t have solutions, just constant gripes and complaining. It’s group think, since they all repeat the same tired accusations. Oh, but they have jobs. But no, there is no good ole boy network. Anyone can walk up to a construction site and get hired. Right.

    Go into the security field. Then you can learn and practice racism legally.

  54. I don’t get the connection between food stamps and laziness. You can work and still get food stamps. I wonder if anyone has ever broken a sweat as a Freddie Mac historian? Newt wins SC. You guys are sooooooo screwed. 🙂

    ET, the Tex/lawsuit reference was from a while back when he said if Moore’s portfolio was being misrepresented, he surely would have sued someone over it.

  55. Yes, anyone can find work with a roofing crew or concrete crew.

    Union construction cites? No. Big house building outfits? No.

    But small time contractors and roofing crews? Hell yes. I know. I did it. It paid the rent for almost 8 years. I bet Poolman has hired people off the street himself.

    That is if there is work in the first place.

    In the 90’s, anyone could have learned a trade. ANYONE.

    I don’t think laziness is the right word. Welfare and food stamps don’t create the same embarrassment in the black community as it does the white community. Of course there are major exceptions to this.

    Being embarrassed about food stamps isn’t the worst thing in the world.

    I have had a few buddies go on them this recession. They were humiliated.

    I’m open for other suggestions.

    What pisses me off is when liberals skip the statistical reality wholesale. 90% of all black children end up on food stamps at one point in their life. We can explore the reasons why. But, to dismiss this fact outright with a sophomoric statistical slight of hand that wouldn’t fool a fourth grader makes me want to puke.

    “First of all, most of the folks on food stamps are white. So there goes that argument.” -Rutherford

    There goes that argument? Are you kidding me. Dude.

    Take a moment to smell Rutherford’s schizophrenia. He starts the conversation by wondering what Gingrich’s motives are when discussing unemployment in the black community. And then..he……just can’t bring himself to admit the massive problem in the black community.

    There goes that argument. The black community shouldn’t be defined as a welfare class, even though they are.

    I will teach my son the importance of the individual. Despite the epic reliance on the government to take care of them as a group, a black person should always be given the freedom to prove his worth as a person.

    But, you liberals are in denial. President Johnson wrecked that community. I’ve said it before. Urban reservations. 72% of all black babies born out of wedlock. 72%. WTF?

    These stats coincide with rise of the welfare state like white on rice.

    Nothing disgusts me more then liberals not wanting to have this conversation.

    In many ways, it’s the Good Samaritan’s Dilemma on steroids. Liberals meant well.

    That is changing.

    The proof is in the pudding. But now it seems to be about votes or just pure denial.

  56. Construction jobs are far and few between. But yes, there was a time when anyone could get hired.

    72% of all black babies born out of wedlock.

    Man that’s a bunch. Black babies are highest aborted too, I believe. Looks like a lot of unprotected sex happening among this group. Couldn’t have anything to do with the images being portrayed in the media, right? I mean, who would think that? It’s probably those drugs we got a war going on against.

    Who do you blame for the high out of wedlock rate?

    It has to be considered that the black family structure was virtually destroyed in America. The father figure was emasculated for generations. It takes more than a couple of generations to restore that, if it can be. We are not that far beyond blacks being treated as second class citizens. That may heal quickly in some cases and never in others.

    There have been some influence from other black cultures in recent generations that have helped strengthen black families. Some inter-racial marriages have softened communities.

    Others are over-comers and some even over-achievers. Where would your beloved sports be without black athletes? How about the music industry? When allowed, blacks have excelled in all fields of study.

    There are pockets in the country where it is whites whose family structures have been destroyed. It is often more poor-related.

    Check on the various Indigenous peoples and their current family condition. In every case families were undermined by breaking the will of individuals.

    Time to bring our focus home and fix families and communities.

  57. Rabbit, I’m all for the discussion you want to have. What did I say? I said if Gingrich wants to address the problems of the ghetto with policy, then I’m all ears. Implicit in that statement is my acknowledgement that ghettos are royally screwed.

    That’s not the same as saying blacks are lazy. If folks in the ghetto are lazy then let them rot. Discussion over. Is that your conclusion? How bout we say most people of every race want the dignity of a job and start the discussion there. If that’s Gingrich’s starting point then let’s move forward. I’m just not at all sure that’s Newt’s starting point.

    Finally, climbing the corporate ladder is largely based on the buddy system. Are you really trying to tell me that blue collar jobs are more egalitarian? Lemme guess, that roofing crew that just hired you on sight was black right? 🙂

  58. It is often more poor-related.

    I submit it is almost ALWAYS poor-related. Poverty is the problem, not race.Ignorance is a problem too.

    Dr. Phil used to have these “Dr. Phil families” and by the assessment of many, one of them just had to be black based on the elder daughter’s inability to keep her legs closed. But no, they were white, middle class, and ignorant as hell. The baby-maker in the bunch was dumb as a post. Sadly had it been a black family, no one would have batted an eye.

    I don’t remember whether it was here or at Alfie’s that he mentioned “the soft bigotry of low expectations”. That is at play in our society too. More black leaders need to hold their communities to a higher standard. But the bottom line is wiping out poverty through education (which reduces ignorance) and then jobs commensurate with training (which brings in a paycheck).

    One thing I think Rabbit has said that I completely agree with — we place too much focus on college these days. We need good vocational programs for kids who show an aptitude for physical labor. We need to stop the snobbery that white collar work is the only decent work. My mother always said there is no shame in an honest day’s work.

    But we also need to bring the manufacturing jobs back (h/t to Rick Santorum). There was a time a kid could get out of high school in Pennsylvania or some other state with manufacturing and get a job right away. Those days are gone.

    A damn complex mess that can’t be helped by saying one group is lazy.

  59. Rutherford –

    When there is a controversy, you try to do a controlled experiment, and in the “welfare” realm, there have been several.

    Island blacks generally do very well in America, but not African blacks, who have had several generations of white folks “take care of them.”

    Hillbillies – my people, nearly all white – have had a long tradition of hard work, low illegitimacy rate, independence — until about Roosevelt’s day or thereabouts. Now I can’t stand to even go back there. It looks like a f’in ghetto – filthy people, filthy property, people who would steal the hat off your head – living in the idyllic little community where I grew up, no less! The phone lines are regularly stolen and sold for the copper.

    Germans have long been considered hard-working, smart, fastidious – until they were divided after WWII into a capitalist half and a socialist/communist half.

    Koreans ditto. Until ditto.

    Now that Germany is reunited, the former West Germany has had a helluva time getting the East Germans to work and compete, since ONE generation of the welfare state has bred that proclivity out of them. If you want to see what the communist/socialist state has done to North Korea, look at that famous night map from space. South Korea is burgeoning with lights and activity; North Korea is completely dark.

    I won’t even go into the Brits pre- and post-Thatcher.

    Ad infinitum. The welfare state can destroy anyone, no matter who they are. There was never a more effective system of rotting the human spirit ever devised. As I believe Sowell put it, the black race has survived a hell of a lot, including slavery, but it won’t survive the white folks’ good intentions.

  60. Rutherford –

    I have come to believe that hardly anyone understands the damage that can be done to a country by a bad system or a single bad leader. America is sliding down the s**t pipes as fast as it can go, and those bastards who get their mail in Washington, DC bear the blame for it all, starting with Roosevelt and ending with the current administration.

    If you want to see where we are headed, take a look at this:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and-a-squeezed-middle-class.html?_r=1&hp

    A very fair piece IMHO from a rag that is not known for even-handedness – the NY Times.

    These days I wake up at three a.m. and sit in my recliner until time to go to work, trying to get back to sleep. My wife worries about me and wants to know what is wrong; the answer is always the same: I can’t sleep, thinking about our kids. They have no clue what awaits them. No clue, and there seems to be nothing I can do about it.

  61. Pfessor nailed it in those last two comments.

    I too worry and am constantly plotting.

    Poolman, the roofing business is booming. Turns out all that 3 tab shingle we put on in the 90’s was defective. All the bank owned homes are getting bailed out tax payer new roofs!

    As for R, it’s cultural. So, yeah, while maybe words like “lazy aren’t constructive, adjectives like that do apply, it we want to cut through the bull shit.

    I’ve always noticed blacks will not do extremely hard work. They just don’t do landscaping, concrete and roofing. yet, its these trades that are easiest to break into to. I sometimes wonder if this aversion to back breaking work is tied to slavery. But who knows.

    Rutherford’s reasons for why blacks don’t learn trades doesn’t add up. Lets say he is right. You got to know somebody to learn a trade. Probably a kernel of truth in that. Why don’t blacks know anybody in the trades? It just doesn’t make sense that even in the most segregated of black communities whites do so much work. Trust me, I’ve heard other blacks ask the same question.

    There is nothing more egalitarian then the trades. I know Poolman knows this. You show up, scrap and pick shit up and slowly learn the craft. Slowly buy tools. Start your own business. Does the current economy stink? Yes. But I’m talking over the last 50 years. I’ve seen high-school drop outs make a decent living and start businesses this way.

    It’s not that blacks are averse to business. Blacks do elect to become mechanics. Why skip over so many other trades that can flower into business?

    Mexicans are obviously the opposite with crackers in second.

  62. “America is sliding down the s**t pipes as fast as it can go, and those bastards who get their mail in Washington, DC bear the blame for it all…”

    Wrong.

    The blame goes to the people who keep sending them there.

    Screw me once, shame on you. Screw me twice, shame on me….

  63. Rabbit, I have seen some black roofers. Not many. I’m trying to rack my brain and think if I have ever known any blacks in the pool business… I’m drawing a blank. The pool business consists of plumbers, steel tiers, various concrete and tile trades, electricians and excavators, among some others.

    I have been in the industry since 1975 and I can’t remember any blacks doing it. Maybe I’m forgetting some, but they don’t stand out. There are a couple that work at the supply houses. I know two right now at different suppliers that have been there a long time.

    So yeah, your observation seems accurate. There are Hispanics all throughout the construction industry. Some of the crews are all Mexican. My plumber, the steel crew, the concrete crews, my mason…

    My plumber came over from Mexico and started doing dirt work and plumbing in the late 90’s and now is an American citizen, owns a house with a large property and is raising his family. A real rags to riches success story. He’s a good guy and employs a half dozen people now.

    A recall on 3 tab shingles! Man that IS a lot of work. Most of these homes were done in the 3 tab shingles in the 90’s. I’ve even roofed a couple of those myself.

  64. “A damn complex mess that can’t be helped by saying one group is lazy” – R

    Rutherford, I wonder if the difference is related to welfare. Mexicans, legal or illegal are generally not eligible for welfare so they “work” in order to stay in this country and send home their earnings to Mexico.

    The main source of income in Mexico are the wages earned by Mexicans working in America who send their wages home to their family.

    The ones who can afford to bring their families to America eventually end up owning homes and restaurants, etc.

    Mexicans as Poolman and Rabbit stated are willing to do any dirt job out there. They will work on electrical crews trimming trees, road and landscaping, roofers, etc. even if they don’t know how to do the work. They also are willing to show up and sit in a parking lot all day to be picked up by a contractor for day work.

    A good example of how times have changed is the horse business once the sole job of blacks. Mexicans now perform all the necessary jobs in this business, i.e. grooms, stall cleaners, etc. One Mexican I know has subcontracted with several stables and sends a crew around to perform daily duties.

    So is it welfare or what?

  65. Tigre, posted without commentary? Perhaps a tacit admission on your part that the “lazy” stereotype goes back quite a ways. It’s been a common adjective used over the years to vilify the black man. Even when they were busting their asses taking care of white folks for free.

    Pfesser, if I let it, this would keep me up at night. How are we ever going to get beyond this? For all the gains, there is still so far to go to achieve a color blind society.

    In the SC debate on Fox, Newt answers Juan Williams question with “well, first of all, JUAN, … ” As he spits out the word “Juan”, several in the audience laugh. You know what the laugh was about? Because it sounded like “first of all BOY.” And to confirm that interpretation, a Gingrich supported congratulated him the next day for putting Juan Williams “in his place.”

    Newt takes his audience on a dark ride that is truly scary to anyone paying attention. When I saw the exchange with Juan Williams and the audience reaction, I wondered what Juan was going to encounter in the parking lot after the debate. 😦

  66. “You know what the laugh was about? Because it sounded like “first of all BOY.” And to confirm that interpretation, a Gingrich supported congratulated him the next day for putting Juan Williams “in his place.””

    That’s bullshit, Rutherford.

    How do you know what motivated those people to laugh? Did anyone ask them?

    Because the statement that Juan got “put in his place” doesn’t confirm squat.

    This dog whistle business is part of the problem with the conversation. And it’s a 1-sided problem. Guess which side.

    “Newt takes his audience on a dark ride that is truly scary to anyone paying attention. When I saw the exchange with Juan Williams and the audience reaction, I wondered what Juan was going to encounter in the parking lot after the debate.”

    Ah yes. The scary white man argument.

    It seems like just yesterday when Rutherford admonished us for our scary black man argument against armed men dressed in para-military uniforms intimidating people outside polling places when they weren’t threatening to kill white people “and they babies.”

    And now today “First of all Juan” means some motherfucker’s getting lynched in the parking lot.

  67. Rutherford –

    A old med school prof of mine with whom I’ve kept in touch just turned me on Bill Hicks. You gotta get a load of some of his sayings.

    “I’m glad mushrooms are against the law, because I took them one time, and you know what happened to me? I laid in a field of green grass for four hours going, “My God! I love everything.” Yeah, now if that isn’t a hazard to our country … how are we gonna justify arms dealing when we realize that we’re all one?”
    ― Bill Hicks

  68. You know, Mexicans have been called lazy too.

    Based on where I live, I frequently have to drive past a housing project. I don’t believe I’ve ever looked over and said, “they really seem to want work, if only they had a job.” The neighborhood is blocs from a Home Depot with Mexicans lined up looking for works as day laborers.

    Most of the blame rests with the welfare state, a/k/a liberal “charity,” not the color of their skin. I wish you’d understand that rather than getting your rocks of on your so-called compassion and desire to create special rather than equal status for political gain.

    And so you don’t go there again, my views on this are not met much resistance from my black relatives. In fact, they’d probably give you an earful for your hand in what many of them consider the source of the black community’s predicament.

    You may go back to watching the Al Sharpton channel. . .

  69. Hey JUAN, I mean Rutherford……you haven’t been this intellectually weak since you tied an arm band on and blamed Palin for the shooting.

    I tell you what JUAN…you got a real perty mouth… Don’t you now, Juan. No go up in that kitchen and fix me some eggs, Juan.

  70. Yup…..good ol’ Rutherford.

    The truth hurts too much. It’s too painful for Rutherford to open his eyes and seriously assess what progressive policy has done to the black community.

    Rutherford nervously reverted to a laughable perversion of statistics (a bumper sticker boringly used by all libs, despite the stupidity).

    Then he threw out some uninformed bull shit about the nature of the trades, something he knows nothing about.

    He ended it by saying he’s just too emotional about it all and that Gingrich is a racist for calling Juan Williams by his first name, “Juan”.

    Remember, Rutherford has never deemed the realities of the ghetto worthy of a blog entry.

    Rutherford has never lifted a finger to help anyone in the Ghetto.

    He’s never worked with the kids.

    Never worked with churches.

    Never mentored an inner city child.

    Hell, even the militant atheist pfessor works with the local church.

    Not R.

    But, he says it keeps him up all night?

    Yeah right. As he pens another blog entry about the byzantine petty politics of GOP infighting during the primary.

    Trust me folks, Rutherford does NOT stay up all night worrying about black people. He has compartmentalized that issue with a massive mental pad lock.

    As usual, we have another liberal absolutely refusing to accept that there are some serious cultural issues at play in the ghetto. Ones that seem to correlate with the rise of the welfare state.

    Imagine how tough it would be for Rutherford to be a man about it? He would have to reassess his entire political paradigm.

    That being said, I don’t want any kids going hungry. I feel every child in America should have a warm coat.

    If only we could come up with some kind of work programs for those on welfare. Performance could be evaluated. Hard workers could end up on a list that local businesses would have access too.

    I also feel people should have to pay back a certain percentage of welfare. Even if it’s only 5%. I swear many welfare recipients simply don’t get who pays for these things.

    We need to start thinking outside the box. How can we come up with incentives for black people to get married?

    Maybe FDR type New Deal work programs would be worth it?

    I’m just throwing things out there. I’m sure many of the libertarians and conservatives cringe at this kind of stuff.

    But, something has to give.

    The black church needs to back off the local city political scene and start getting Bill Cosby on their members.

    Louis Farrakhan’s a complete nut case. But his message of self reliance is important. Maybe churches could learn a thing or two from him.

  71. re: Farrakhan –

    Remember, Hitler got the populace focused and working by exactly the same tactics – hatred of a particular group. You can get people motivated two ways – the right way and the wrong. He’s wrong.

  72. Rabbit, this is what galls me.

    “Perhaps a tacit admission on your part that the “lazy” stereotype goes back quite a ways.”

    Tacit admission? That ends the inquiry for R?

    I’ll state on the record that profound racism, social injustice and harmful stereotypes have existed in this country, still do to some, and should not be tolerated.

    My problem is, where the fuck does R get off wagging his finger at any of us because what I said is true?

    The discussion always ends with Rutherford’s earth shattering observation of prior racism and its fallout. To him, failing to cave to the the completely illogical conclusion and intellectually dishonest belief that that the welfare state helps elevate minority (black) community is evidence of apathy or outright racism.

    Give it a rest and make your case R. But don’t pretend that I or any one else here other than you denies the obvious (actually, you just avoid it).

    Simply put, it would be far more helpful if you’d quit engaging in the very name calling, stereotyping, and intolerance of which you accuse others and move the damn ball.

    The left has co-opted and exploits the black community in ways that are far more damaging than the subtle racism you accuse conservatives of for daring to have an adult conversation about issues that impact minorities.

  73. el Tigre –

    “The left has co-opted and exploits the black community in ways that are far more damaging than the subtle racism you accuse conservatives of for daring to have an adult conversation about issues that impact minorities.”

    Well-spoken. I think the results of the welfare state are unquestionable; the only mystery is the motivation of its proponents. I think some on the left – particularly the higher-ups – know exactly what they are doing – buying votes. I think most folks, like R, are well motivated and just can’t get rid of years of unclear thinking and see what this kind of stuff is really doing – not just to blacks, but anyone it touches, for example my Hillbilly friends and relatives. Exactly the same result. Hasn’t a thing to do with race.

    I call it thinking on the first level. If someone has no money, you just give them some. Problem solved. But no, there are unintended consequences on the second and deeper levels. These folks don’t look at that. I don’t think they are trying to cause harm, they just ARE.

    Just my .05

  74. Trust me folks, Rutherford does NOT stay up all night worrying about black people.

    I never said I did. Read the comment again. I said if I allowed myself to, I’d be up at night. But I do exactly what you say I do …I compartmentalize it. I can’t get my mind around it.

    But at least Rabbit you proposed some interesting ideas.

    If only we could come up with some kind of work programs for those on welfare. Performance could be evaluated. Hard workers could end up on a list that local businesses would have access too.

    I also feel people should have to pay back a certain percentage of welfare. Even if it’s only 5%. I swear many welfare recipients simply don’t get who pays for these things.

    Thank you. You think I favor endless gov’t handouts? I don’t. The idea of welfare being perhaps a zero interest loan, paid back at a reasonable time frame is a good idea. Work programs are a good idea.

    You guys love arguing with this character named Rutherford that you’ve created in your head, without reading everything I’ve said. I’ve said it’s complicated. I’ve said personal responsibility cannot be ignored.

    But sadly, it’s easier for you guys to sit around and pretend that prejudices don’t poison the public debate. I’m sorry guys, dog whistles DO exist. When Newt toured the country with Rev Al Sharpton as an education advocate do you really think he addressed black audiences the way he addressed that South Carolina debate audience? If you do you’re living in a f*cking fantasy world.

  75. “But sadly, it’s easier for you guys to sit around and pretend that prejudices don’t poison the public debate.”

    R, perhaps you’d score a few points by examining and moving past your own prejudices, then engaging in the public debate rather than quashing it with your accusations of ulterior motives.

  76. for daring to have an adult conversation about issues that impact minorities.

    There are divisive ways to have the adult conversation and there are constructive ways to do it. When Newt calls Obama the “food stamp President” he’s conjuring up images of the welfare queen.

    And the truth is Newt is capable of giving a uniting message. I’ve heard him do it, only seconds after talking smack. He has said he wants people of every background to find jobs, keep jobs and eventually own businesses. Who cannot applaud that? Hell, I think his idea of putting kids to work is not bad on its face. It might have helped if he hadn’t suggested scrubbing toilets but hey.

  77. And another thing … Tigre, I don’t associate supporting welfare as being empathetic. There are two ways to talk about these issues. You can demonize the programs and the politics or you can demonize the people. When I see the latter, I see a lack of empathy.

  78. Basically Pfesser, to use a worn out maxim, you can give a guy a fish or teach him to fish. The latter is preferable. And if you want to say welfare is the same way (i.e. just giving the guy a fish), then I’m with you 100%.

  79. Tigre, since you took umbrage at my reaction to the LazyTown video, what then pray tell were you trying to get across by posting it besides adding some levity to the thread?

    (LOL If I’m not mistaken there’s a Canadian produced kids show called LazyTown where the villain tries to stamp out exercise and the hero makes sure the kids get their exercise. My kid used to watch it.)

  80. “When Newt calls Obama the “food stamp President” he’s conjuring up images of the welfare queen”

    And when you say shit like that, you’re conjuring up the images of a drama queen.

  81. When Newt calls Obama the “food stamp President” he’s conjuring up images of the welfare queen. -R

    He’s conjuring up images of a President in which a record amount of people have gone on food stamps.

    Considering Gingrich is hoping to run against said President, you don’t see that as fair game?

    Hell, make the “It’s Bush’s fault” argument or something. But quit the whining and toughen up. Obama IS the food stamp President. Your argument should be why he had to be, not some pusified sobbing that your feelings were hurt over the “image”.

  82. “Tigre, since you took umbrage at my reaction to the LazyTown video, what then pray tell were you trying to get across by posting it besides adding some levity to the thread?”

    Nope. Just adding levity to the thread. It was fitting given the exchange with Rabbit.

    What makes you think I was making some “tacit admission?” What pray tell have I denied that was admitted by posting that video?

    You know, if you go to the Youtube link, you’ll see a variety of related videos. Many are of old cartoons that cross the line with respect to Asians, Hispanics, Jews, women etc.

    Now, can we move past the God forsaken “dog whistle” shit? It really gets and is most telling about the rel agenda of the left, e.g. characterizing the right as racist oppressor. It’s tired and offensive (deliberately so). Since every time you go there I want to b-slap you, I don’t see you really wanting to have a serious discussion. You “tacitly demand” some kind of atonement — all based on your stereotypes and self-determined belief that posses an empathy that allows you to occupy moral high ground on issues of race.

    So, for all of your criticism of whatever Newt said on his Sharpton-tour, show what the great Uniter Obama has done for race relations other than to stoke resentment from his white constituency and disappointment from his black. How do think he’s done with the Hispanic community? Do you really think his vilification of the right has been healthy? If so, I assure you it is not. He’s acted stupidly.

  83. It’s worse than that Rabbit. Didn’t you know food stamps are a job-creating stimulus program. Pelosi said so. 🙄

    And to think Gingrich has the temerity to cast such dispersions in seeking the nomination. . .

  84. OK you boys (sorry) raise a decent point. We can’t get to policy debate if we don’t get past “being offended”.

    But let me ask you an honest question. You don’t see a difference between tapping into people’s hopes and dreams (Obama 2008) and tapping into people’s anger and resentment (Newt2012)?

  85. “It’s worse than that Rabbit. Didn’t you know food stamps are a job-creating stimulus program. Pelosi said so. 🙄

    And to think Gingrich has the temerity to cast such dispersions in seeking the nomination…”

    I was going to laugh about Pelosi and Gingrich being mentioned in the same comment and then I remembered they have already shared a couch and a position on taking action against climate change.

    I can’t believe Republicans are entertaining sending that blowhard to the White House….

  86. Huck I must admit Obama will not run an uplifting campaign this year. In fact but for the sport of it, the 2012 race for the White House will be pretty damn depressing.

  87. So the question, regarding the couch video is … what WAS Newt thinking?

    I shall repeat my favorite line that I heard about Newt. Newt Gingrich is what dumb people think smart people sound like. 😉

  88. “I can’t believe Republicans are entertaining sending that blowhard to the White House….”

    I can. The GOP establishment is full of total douche bags. Douche bag is an over used word. But it fits. Ever been to a Young Republican meeting back in college? Holy shit, I only thought people like that existed as bad guys in comedies from the 1980’s. Those are the kind of people who gave Gingrich South Carolina.

    Dumb-asses who are Republican only because someone told them to be.

  89. Well, we have had another big event that seems to have gone unmentioned.

    Newt to SC. And not by a nose.

    I think it had a lot to do with his debate performance. Although I also think it’s bad for the republicans, what is most fascinating to m is the reaction to the media attacks and attacks on media played out by The Newt.

    Now, I do think it’s still Romney. I also think that the Newt experiment says something about the Republican support of Romney (but nor Obama as some liberal retards would like to believe).

    Most importantly, I think it says something about the public perception of the media. He got a standing ovation for his predictable response for a reason. And you know what? He was absolutely right about the media’s hand in shaping rather than reporting on events.

    R, has any pf this changed your opinions that the media just reports what people want to read/hear about? I believe that people are damn tired of the petty, one-sided and manipulative approach of the media. I also think anyone objective would have to concede that the MSM is in the tank for Obama and deliberately avoids reporting issues that bode poorly for him in the 2012 stretch.

  90. Gingrich doesn’t even know who he is. I bet he wakes up grimacing as an expedient Machiavellian bastard and then slowly convinces himself he is an idealistic icon, awaiting his destiny and deification. Or maybe its the other way around.

    I really don’t give a shit how smart Gingrich is. I’m sick of hearing that. We heard that non stop about the current fuck-tard in office. And that genius put us debt more then all other presidents COMBINED!!!!!!!

  91. I just clicked PM’s Fat Granny link and all I have to say is….

    Damn, you are awesome, Rutherford. This is another shining gem in your vast jewelry box of diamond posts. You are by far the very best writer on the entire Internet. My only complaint is that I cannot bear your children.

    I LOVE YOU!!!!!111

  92. “Huck I must admit Obama will not run an uplifting campaign this year.”

    This year?

    Where the heck have you been for the last 3 years?

    The “uplift” ended on day 1 with “I won.” He has been combative, angry, and resentful ever since and with increasing intensity.

  93. Newt Gingrich should send a dozen roses to CNN’s John King for his SC win. Which of the candidates is most critical of the media? Gingrich. So what does King do? King asks the man a question tailor made for a lecture on “the nasty media”. King was an ass.

    Sorry to reference Rachel Maddow, but she was right on this one. It is not the topic that got King in trouble. It was the asinine question. “Would you like to comment on that [the open marriage stuff]?” Gingrich’s obvious answer was “NO” and then the lecture. This endeared him to the crowd as the victim of smear politics.

    What King should have asked was “in light of recent allegations by your ex-wife, do you feel you will have difficulty avoiding charges of hypocrisy among family-oriented voters here in SC?”

    That was the real question. Newt would have answered it as he has answered it before (I sought forgiveness from the Lord, etc, etc.).

    John King was Twerp of the Week on “Leaning Left” last night.

  94. You had it right the first time, R. It was a scripted question and response. It is what set the tone for the whole Newt win.

  95. The fact remains that Newt Gingrich will continue to get votes so long as GOP voters believe he will humiliate Barack Obama in a debate. That is the overriding reason he is getting votes.

  96. He won’t get my vote. In fact, a GOP nomination of Newt Gingrich will pretty much complete and make official my break-away from the party.

    If Republicans want to continue to be stupid, they can do it without my support.

  97. He would’ve answered your (revised) question in roughly the same way. He was ready for it. And the standing ovations and applause would’ve followed.

    The problem Rutherford, is there’s truth to what Newt said. I know you’re loathe to admit it.

    Without having heard Chaz Maddow’s snark this time, I think what she doesn’t get is that she and her ilk are what resulted in the standing ovation as much as anyone else. I reckon she doesn’t see it that way.

    You guys need to focus on Obama’s record. It can’t be delayed forever.

    Poolman, CNN did not work with Newt on this one. It was on the losing end.

  98. A part of the pent up excitement of watching Obama get cut to pieces by Gingrich is the fact that Obama got such a free pass. The MSM never vetted him like they do conservatives. He got off way to easy. I for one can’t wait to watch Obama squirm. Count me in that camp.

  99. OK a couple of things. Could someone help me understand how the whole Rev Wright thing was Obama getting a free pass? Could someone explain how the connections with Bill Ayers thing was Obama getting a free pass?

    Tigre, of course there was truth in what Gingrich said. In fact, Gingrich’s response was perfect for King’s question which is why King’s question was so stupid. But my revision would not have prompted the outrage from Newt. It would have received Newt’s standard answer of “I’m a changed man, a good husband and a grandfather now.” The much better question (my/Maddow’s revision) would have received a much less dramatic response from Gingrich and therefore given him less of an ability to wow the crowd. (By the way, it also should NOT have been the first question in the debate. King should have waited until later. Leading off with that made King look desperate to make “a moment”.)

    Let’s not forget it was PERRY who said in a prior debate that if a man can’t be trusted with his wife, he can’t be trusted as your business partner either. That was a shot at Newt, in case you missed it. And in that debate, Newt did his “I’m a changed man” routine.

    But yes, I agree that “news” has much too big a proportion of entertainment in it. That can be partly blamed on the viewer. They want to see gladiators tear each other to shreds, not have a substantive discussion about economics and foreign policy.

  100. “He won’t get my vote. In fact, a GOP nomination of Newt Gingrich will pretty much complete and make official my break-away from the party.

    If Republicans want to continue to be stupid, they can do it without my support.”

    Second that. Where did I hear …. something about “Newt is how stupid people think smart people talk.” Damned straight.

    The ReBiblicans can still get back those of us who left in droves – but we ain’t waiting forever for them to get their heads out of their asses and quit acting like backwoods goobers. I had enough of that redneck shit growing up and I am damned good and tired of it. I am as patient as anybody, but at some point I just write people off and they are a hair’s breadth. One more fucking Palin-like debacle or the nomination of Gingrich should just about do it.

  101. R, you missed my point entirely.

    It’s that the media is biased and seeks to shape events not report on them.

    Remember, part of Newt’s rant was that the MSM shields Obama while trashing the right. And it’s true, deny it all you want. For real. It’s great to have such denials of the obvious.

    As for “but my revision would not have prompted the outrage from Newt.,” you are sorely mistaken. His response was prepared, and if you watch it again didn’t quit fit the question asked. He was going to deliver it in substance and tone regardless of how presented.

    What Perry said is besides the point R. The standing O came from his attack on the media which timed this shit then offered it right before the primary.

    I assure you, it’s the left that wants to avoid talk of substantive issues.

  102. I don’t remember Obama getting off easy. It seemed the media was dogging him on several issues. At least some of it was. I guess it depended on what channel was on. I do know he had the most death threats of any candidate to date. That is fact.

    Then there was the Reverend White thing and a Muslim thing and the community organizer thing and the Chicago thing and the constant teleprompter thing and the whole birth certificate thing…

    John King may have been sacrificed to the gods of entertainment, but Newt had that whole scene ready to run. Mr King doesn’t write his own material. He is just for public consumption, a pawn in the information network game. The questions were given to him to read. Much thought was put into the way this played out. This is all about hot button play. Go team! Beat down that liberal media… ABO! Rahh rahh.

    Newt stands on both sides of that media line. Whichever gives the best profile. Newts need that specialized lighting so you don’t see their inherent green tint.

  103. Imagine that. Another conspiracy from Poolman. One that harms the conspirator. 🙄

    Are the Jews behind it as always?

  104. I guess it depends on who owns the chessboard, Tigre.

    If you have a job where people tell you what to say or do, you may relate. I cannot.

  105. Gorilla, any thoughts on Paul’s popularity among the men in uniform?” – R

    I think Rabbit alluded to it, but there is certainly a “freedom” thing. The military is a restrictive society, and like DR said, most talk non-stop about being able to break those rules. I’ve spoken to dozens of guys who said that when they got out, they wanted to get a job flipping burgers just so they can quit. It’s about doing something that you can’t.

    The tricky part is that when you get beyond surface deep, most realize that that stuff isn’t what they want. Most have too much pride to take a job flipping burgers, let alone to quit for quitting’s sake. Most joke about long hair and weed, but they recognize that it is not who they are. As such is it with Paul. I talk to guys every day who are supportive of some of his ideas- they don’t like being stationed in some locals overseas- but they recognize that Paul is bat-shit crazy when it comes to foreign policy. Libertarianism- like communism- is a great idea on paper, but sucks in reality.

    So to answer your question, I suspect that a healthy dose of that military support that Paul gets is superficial at best…

  106. What a “success”!

    CAIRO (AP) – Final results on Saturday showed that Islamist parties won nearly three-quarters of the seats in parliament in Egypt’s first elections since the ouster of authoritarian president Hosni Mubarak, according to election officials and political groups.

    The Islamist domination of Egypt’s parliament has worried liberals and even some conservatives about the religious tone of the new legislature, which will be tasked with forming a committee to write a new constitution. It remains unclear whether the constitution will be written while the generals who took power after Mubarak’s fall are still in charge, or rather after presidential elections this summer.

    In the vote for the lower house of parliament, a coalition led by the fundamentalist Muslim Brotherhood won 47 percent, or 235 seats in the 498-seat parliament. The ultraconservative Al-Nour Party was second with 25 percent, or 125 seats.

    The Salafi Al-Nour, which was initially the biggest surprise of the vote, wants to impose strict Islamic law in Egypt, while the more moderate Brotherhood, the country’s best-known and organized party, has said publicly that it does not seek to force its views about an appropriate Islamic lifestyle on Egyptians.

  107. Newt stands on both sides of that media line. Whichever gives the best profile.

    Damn straight Skippy! From what I understand when John King interviewed Gingrich later that night they were best buds. Gingrich may be a better actor than Reagan.

  108. Tigre … LOL on the Kerry comment. I’ve been saying this about Mitch Daniels for a while now. The reason he ain’t running for Pres is his wife will kill him and just so he knows it, she’s already f*cked up his shoulder and beaned him on the head (yeah right … he walked into a door).

    That’s a battered man if there ever was one! 🙂

  109. “What a “success”! ”

    What is the problem? Read you own article….

    Egyptians have embraced a “more moderate” group, as opposed to an “ultraconservative” one by nearly 2:1.

    They have chosen one that “has said publicly that it does not seek to force its views about an appropriate Islamic lifestyle on Egyptians,” and the vast majority (75%) have rejected the one who “wants to impose strict Islamic law in Egypt.”

    What a success, indeed.

  110. Yeah, those military families have so much extra dough laying around that they spend much of it on superficial things like bills politicians 🙄 I think they can “speak” with that hard-earned money louder than they can with their voices.

  111. A part of the pent up excitement of watching Obama get cut to pieces by Gingrich is the fact that Obama got such a free pass. The MSM never vetted him like they do conservatives. He got off way to easy – Rabbit

    Yes, I do think Obama got a free pass but only because McCain picked Palin as VP.
    If Palin had not been in the equation I do not think Obama would have been elected.

  112. I don’t know Raji. I think after 2 terms of little Bush, a democrat was bound to get elected.

    McCain had shot himself in the foot before he signed Palin up as VP. Palin just happened to shoot him in the other leg, crippling him altogether.

  113. I believe the chronology runs thusly:

    McCain weak — chooses Palin and gets big boost.

    Palin opens mouth and reveals herself to be an idiot. Sensible GOPhers and indies get nervous and start to abandon ship.

    McCain deals with financial meltdown like a rank amateur and then seals his fate.

    Raji, I think it’s hard to discern which hurt McCain more, Palin or the economy failin’. 🙂

  114. “McCain deals with financial meltdown like a rank amateur and then seals his fate.”

    Which was complete bullshit.

    McCain said….

    “The economic crisis is not the fault of the American people. Our workers are the most innovative, the hardest working, the best skilled, most productive, most competitive in the world, that’s the American worker,” McCain said at a town hall meeting here.

    “My opponents may disagree, but those fundamentals, the American worker and their innovation, their entrepreneurship, the small business, those are the fundamentals of America and I think they’re strong.”

    And everyone, including fuckwad Obama, laughed their asses off.

    Less than 6 months later, in his coronation speech, the newly crowned King Obama stated….

    “We remain the most prosperous, powerful nation on Earth. Our workers are no less productive than when this crisis began. Our minds are no less inventive, our goods and services no less needed than they were last week or last month or last year. Our capacity remains undiminished.”

    And everyone cheered.

  115. I guess you’re right, Raji. We never will know. Hillary was supposed to be the one, anyway. Obama (or his handlers) pulled an upset.

    McCain handled himself weakly during that financial meltdown. True neither one could do anything about it, but the McCain response was far from presidential.

    Timing, Huck. McCain never had it, never will.

  116. Nope Huck, I’m referring to more than just the “fundamentals are strong” statement, which did indeed get lots of negative coverage. (When the cranky old neighbor is yelling from his backyard sometimes we don’t listen to what he is really saying.)

    I’m referring to the pure stunt of suspending his campaign to go to Washington and help figure out the crisis (inviting the classic Obama attack of walking and chewing gum at the same time). Then in the actual meeting with Bush at the White House, the word got out that McCain was next to useless. He had no ideas. There was no reason for him to be there. You can call that lib press spin, but that is what got out.

    Nope, McCain simply didn’t look like a leader who could handle a crisis. That sealed his fate … with his health suspect and a total nimrod in line to succeed him .. well that didn’t help.

  117. There is a lot going on in Egypt right now, most of it not so good for secular society. Some continue to believe what they are being told publicly- specifically media statements to Western Media– but I continue to remain skeptical of the prepared statements. For instance, early on they said they would honor the treaty with Israel, only to come out later saying they would never diplomatically engage with Israel and that they would seek to have the treaty terminated.

    The Muslim Brotherhood has held the position from many, many years that the way to bring about change is to use the system against itself. Participate in the elections, and then undermine/change the system to prevent it from disgorging the Islamist gains. This has been a primary contention between al-Qaida and the Muslim Brotherhood for years: both hold the same goal, just different ways of getting there.

    Currently, there is political competition between the Brotherhood and the other major Islamist party, Salafi al-Nour, but I’m fairly confident that following the elections and the finalization of the parliamentary seats that the al-Nour party and the Brotherhood will work closely together to undermine secular positions and push the Islamist agenda. It would be comedic if it wasn’t so tragic, how many people are buying into this “we’ll play nice” meme from the Brotherhood. All one needs to do is read the history of the Brotherhood and its positions to see the direction it wants to go, which isn’t far from where al-Nour wants to go.

    There hasn’t been a lot of media coverage, but there has been a tremendous amount of sectarian violence directed at Coptic Christians in Egypt since the revolution. The vast majority of this violence has been at the hands of Islamists, nor can one hope that the other minorities in Egypt will be safe for very long either.

    P.S. For those that believe that the old constitutional provisions, namely the one on Mubarak’s resignation, are going to change anything, well, I’ve a bridge for sale in Brooklyn…

  118. gorilla –

    Well said. There are some things you should just leave alone. The Arab tar-baby is one. You cannot touch these people without getting tangled in the Berea Tar Pit of their religion and politics and we should disengage as soon as we can, no matter the cost.

    Of the three desert religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam) only they have failed to come to terms with modernity. Left to their own designs – and bereft of a massive income-producer like oil – these “civilizations” would perhaps advance to the seventh century and that would be it. They are violent and dangerous. Unfortunately we have been foolish and have allowed ourselves to become dependent on their oil. We have had several junctures where we could disengage from these people, but we have always taken the easy road. Now you see where we are.

    If Obama wants to set getting free of Middle Eastern oil as our new direction during his SOTU speech I think he would find a number of supporters.

  119. “For instance, early on they said they would honor the treaty with Israel, only to come out later saying they would never diplomatically engage with Israel and that they would seek to have the treaty terminated. ”

    I think I can point to enough examples in our own politics to prove that…when it comes to politicing…there is what you say and there is what you do. And those 2 things aren’t always the same thing.

    Let’s see what the MB actually does before we condemn or credit them for it, eh?

    “There hasn’t been a lot of media coverage, but there has been a tremendous amount of sectarian violence directed at Coptic Christians in Egypt since the revolution.”

    Yeah by SCAF-backed thugs. We know all about it and it has already pretty much been proven to be SCAF trying to start sectarian shit to justify why it needs to stay in power. Just like their boss did.

    “All one needs to do is read the history of the Brotherhood and its positions to see the direction it wants to go, which isn’t far from where al-Nour wants to go. ”

    Except for the numerous positions I have posted to the contrary.

    “Of the three desert religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam) only they have failed to come to terms with modernity.”

    Pure bullshit.

    Moderate Muslims are the silent majority. That is party by their own doing (which is a mistake) and partly by people like you and several others here who refuse to accept their existence or listen to them when they do speak.

    I am perfectly aware that the MB might be 100% full of crap. I said long ago that I was not making any predictions based on their positions. But I also know that they have never been allowed to participate in the political process, which means that we have no past political actions from which to base our political speculations.

    Sure, they have a history of terrorism and assassinations. So does the ANC. They have also long since renounced political violence.

    So all we have to go by is what they say. And in an election year, I have to concede that some of it might be BS. But I don’t think it’s out of line for others to concede that some of it might not be.

    We shall see….

  120. “The head of Egypt’s military council has said that the country’s decades-old state of emergency will be lifted on Wednesday, the first anniversary of the uprising that brought down president Hosni Mubarak.

    “I have taken a decision to end the state of emergency starting on the morning of January 25, 2012,” Field Marshal Hussein Tantawi said in a televised address on Tuesday, adding that it would still apply in dealing with cases of “thuggery”.

    As I was saying…..

  121. “Moderate Muslims are the silent majority. ”

    Moderate Muslims are irrelevant, because they don’t drive the conversation. They sit back and do nothing, just like the moderate Germans in the ‘thirties. By the time such “moderates” got around to it, it was too late and it was the same as if the moderate Germans did not exist. How much influence did they have once the Nazis took power? I’ll give you a hint: it’s a number between 1 and -1.

    Ditto for the “moderate” Muslims. It is the same as God or moderate Germans. You are wasting your time discussing them; it doesn’t matter if they exist because THEY AREN’T INVOLVED.

  122. Here ya go: a bit long, but explains exactly why we should ignore the “moderate Muslim” and deal forcefully with the Islamists: This ain’t our first rodeo; the only question is did we learn anything the first time around…

    …available on the Internet…

    A man, whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War II, owned a number of large industries and estates. When asked how many German people were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our attitude toward fanaticism. ‘Very few people were true Nazis,’ he said, ‘but many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come. My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories.’ We are told again and again by ‘experts’ and ‘talking heads’ that Islam is the religion of peace and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the specter of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam. The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history; it is the fanatics who march…it is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder or honour-kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to become suicide bombers.

    The hard, quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the ‘silent majority,’ is cowed and extraneous.

    Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant. China ‘s huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a staggering 70 million people.

    The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a warmongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across Southeast Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet. And who can forget Rwanda , which collapsed into butchery. Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were ‘peace loving’?

    History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason, we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points:

    Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don’t speak up, because like my friend from Germany, they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun.

    Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late. As for us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that counts–the fanatics who threaten our way of life.

    Lastly, anyone who doubts that the issue is serious and just deletes this email without sending it on, is contributing to the passiveness that allows the problems to expand. So, extend yourself a bit and send this on and on and on! Let us hope that thousands, world-wide, read this and think about it, and send it on – before it’s too late.

    Emanuel Tanay, M.D. 2980 Provincial St. Ann Arbor, MI 48104

    734-997-0256

    Dr . Emanuel Tanay MD is a well-known forensic psychiatrist who has been an expert witness in many famous cases . He has served as an officer or committee member on the Michigan Psychiatric Society, the American Academy of Psychiatry and the Law, the American Psychiatric Association (APA), and others. He is a diplomate of the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology and of the American Board of Forensic Psychiatry and a distinguished fellow of the APA and the American Academy of Forensic Sciences (AAFC).

    A Holocaust survivor himself, Dr Tanay coauthored a book about the survivors of the Holocaust and was asked by the German government to consult on just compensation for the Holocaust survivors. Dr . Tanay has served on several journal editorial boards, authored many publications, and presented countless times on forensic medicine. His efforts have also produced many awards and commendations from groups such as the Michigan State Medical Society, APA, the Detroit Institute of Technology, and AAFC, among others.

  123. So in 1 comment you bitch about moderate Muslims not speaking out and in the next comment you defend why those who do speak should be ignored?

    You say they do nothing to drive the conversation and when there are those who do, you disregard them because more of them don’t do it.

    And then you sit back with a perceived moral high ground and pretend that you aren’t a part of the negative cycle that is created by that.

    I have never said that we should ignore radical Islamists, so that entire long comment is nothing but a straw man.

  124. In political science and social movement theory there is a lot of talk about opportunities. People are more likely to speak out and even rise up against something when they think they have an opportunity for their efforts to bear fruit. The greater the perceived opportunity, the greater the chance for some kind of change to be attempted.

    When moderate Muslims get told by the extremists on 1 side to STFU or die, and get told by _____ (insert whatever label for us that makes you sleep better) to STFU because you aren’t loud enough, then what perceptions of opportunity do they have?

    We complain that Islamists don’t come up to the standards of modernity…and 1 of those standards is measured by the respect of individuality…and then we continually refuse to respect the outcomes of legitimate democratic processes in those places…which is a big mark of respecting individuality…then what perceptions of opportunity are moderates left with?

    If you want to see change, you need to seek out its attempts and help them, even if that help just means listening and giving it a chance.

    You don’t ignore the majority that is quiet, you put up a megaphone and amplify their whispers.

    Otherwise people have little reason to try.

  125. “So in 1 comment you bitch about moderate Muslims not speaking out and in the next comment you defend why those who do speak should be ignored?”

    Nope. Didn’t say that.

    They AIN’T speaking out. They are sitting on their asses and letting the nutcases drive the conversation, largely because they are afraid of them. Can’t say I blame them, but in the long run they can’t afford to back away; it lets the religious nuts get the upper hand. (You will notice that doesn’t happen here; when the nuts start getting out of hand somebody says something. I especially enjoy that job myself.)

    “You say they do nothing to drive the conversation and when there are those who do, you disregard them because more of them don’t do it.”

    Nope. Didn’t say that. You made that up. They are, on the whole, NOT speaking out. (That is a clone of your #1 by the way, so no need to discredit separately.)

    “And then you sit back with a perceived moral high ground and pretend that you aren’t a part of the negative cycle that is created by that.”

    Nope. Didn’t say that. You been taking straw man lessons from Tex? What negative cycle? Who says that observing that the “moderates” are irrelevant is a negative thing? I think pointing it out is a GREAT thing.

    “I have never said that we should ignore radical Islamists, so that entire long comment is nothing but a straw man.”

    Didn’t say you did; so straw man back at ‘cha.

  126. I’ve noticed another potentially unsettling development in countries like Sweden. Peace loving Muslims, Fins or any other nationality can become the enemy if their numbers grow large enough to threaten the cultural integrity of the host society.

    Comments on a Swedish blog devoted to night life included a few comments like the following.

    “I think we must get rid of the immigrants.” “Ohh yeah because the muslims are like all over europe now.”

    “Thumbs up if you’re sick and tired of having immigrants ruin our wonderful heritage. all over these clubs these days are scumbags dwelling around looking for pray.. You might think i’m trolling around and i really wish i was. just go there blacks and arabs creating chaos everywhere and it gets worse every day.”

    A writer on a British blog complained that eastern Europeans are taking jobs that unemployed British workers need. Another called Ukrainians blond Mexicans.

    Some Fins complain that the Swedes are polluting their gene pool. A Swede called Fins blond Mongoloid mongrels.

    If fanatics harness the potential ill feeling of dominant and unassimilated societies, localized conflicts may result. It wouldn’t be hard to turn peace loving Muslims into violent Muslims, Swedes or Fins.

  127. A couple of comments: First welcome James. I think you and I may have corresponded in the past. Fear of the majority becoming just another minority is a powerful motivator in discrimination. What do you think “I want to take my country back” is all about?

    Pfesser, I hate to sound like Tex (really I do) but when you take pride in speaking out against Christian “radicals” in this country, you do so under no real threat of physical harm. I’m not sure what you (or I) would do if the folks we spoke out against responded by cutting our heads off in the public square.

    I think moderate Muslims are in one helluva bind. I too wish they could find the courage to speak out and put a stop to the nonsense. But since it is irrational nonsense that binds them to their more violent brothers I’m not sure a rational conversation is possible.

    Any religious doubter hoping to find a “reason to believe” should stay away from Hitchens “God is Not Great”. I’m still reading it and damn it sure is an indictment of the entire thing.

  128. “So in 1 comment you bitch about moderate Muslims not speaking out and in the next comment you defend why those who do speak should be ignored?”

    Nope. Didn’t say that.”

    Actually..you did.

    “Moderate Muslims are irrelevant, because they don’t drive the conversation.” There is the bitching.

    And here is the defense of your defense for ignoring them. “a bit long, but explains exactly why we should ignore the “moderate Muslim” and deal forcefully with the Islamists”

    “You say they do nothing to drive the conversation and when there are those who do, you disregard them because more of them don’t do it.”

    Nope. Didn’t say that.”

    Actually…you did.

    “Moderate Muslims are irrelevant, because they don’t drive the conversation.” That one covers both bold points.

    “(That is a clone of your #1 by the way, so no need to discredit separately.)”

    Then why did you?

    “And then you sit back with a perceived moral high ground and pretend that you aren’t a part of the negative cycle that is created by that.”

    Nope. Didn’t say that.”

    Where in there do you see me claiming you have said something? That claim is of an action, not a saying.

    “What negative cycle?”

    The cycle of telling people who rarely say something that when they do say something that what they say doesn’t matter because they don’t say anything.

    I’d have thought that was obvious by now.

    You really need to pick up the level of your game, man. This ain’t Fat Grannies. You actually have to think here. Shit, most of what you’ve had to say on this topic was copied and pasted. Think for yourself, if you’re able.

  129. So I am done here. See you all in the next thread.

    Thank goodness we are moving on to the next thread. I was really hoping to have a next-next thread by tonight but I’m just too damn tired.

    I’ll try to churn it out tomorrow.

  130. “For instance, early on they said they would honor the treaty with Israel, only to come out later saying they would never diplomatically engage with Israel and that they would seek to have the treaty terminated. ”

    I think I can point to enough examples in our own politics to prove that…when it comes to politicing…there is what you say and there is what you do. And those 2 things aren’t always the same thing.

    Let’s see what the MB actually does before we condemn or credit them for it, eh?

    You’ve been the one defending the Brotherhood based on what they’ve said, so this wait-and-see meme you’ve started to espouse is laughable. There is a pretty long record of what the Brotherhood stands for, and it is not secularism, so why you think this new-found tolerance is somehow going to outlive the political season when it contradicts a large body of their previous positions is beyond me.

    “There hasn’t been a lot of media coverage, but there has been a tremendous amount of sectarian violence directed at Coptic Christians in Egypt since the revolution.”

    Yeah by SCAF-backed thugs. We know all about it and it has already pretty much been proven to be SCAF trying to start sectarian shit to justify why it needs to stay in power. Just like their boss did.

    Really? Who’s instigating the violence? The military eh, well, I guess THAT’s flies in the face of the bulk of international media reporting pointing the finger directly at Salafi fundamentalists. But the conspiracy theorist thinking is entertaining. I guess the Piss Pot does have influence… on some at least.

    The military may be doing little to protect the Copts, but they don’t need any help in attacking them.

    “All one needs to do is read the history of the Brotherhood and its positions to see the direction it wants to go, which isn’t far from where al-Nour wants to go. ”

    Except for the numerous positions I have posted to the contrary.

    Let me get this straight, you won’t believe a word Obama says but you’ll buy into the political rhetoric of the Brotherhood?

    Still interested in a bridge?

  131. Thank you Rutherford. Yes, I am the same one. I also know Pfessor, Poolmanj, and Tex from another forum. My time is limited for this sort of thing, so I tried this site after I dropped the first.

    “I want to take my country back” is a normal response of self preservation. If a society fails to absorb newcomers by giving them the time and means to adopt its attitudes and values, dissention and possible violence will result.

    Many European countries have kept their Muslim and other immigrants on the margins. Newcomers do not feel they are part of their adopted nations and retain their old country identities. They gather in their own communities and turn them into copies of their previous homelands. Those communities are a potential source of home-grown terrorists because though they seem to live in new countries, they are still where they left.

    It is a normal reaction for immigrants to find or recreate familiar surroundings, but they must eventually assimilate with their adopted culture or the host will “want to take my country back.” The newcomers will keep much of their old culture, but they will be outwardly Americans or whatever nationality they have adopted.

    I agree with you, moderate Muslims in their native countries are in a terrible bind. For example, a man in Afghanistan converted to Christianity and the government nearly killed him. It is too much to hope more than a few isolated people would sentence themselves or their families to certain death.

    However, I agree with Pfessor that moderate Muslims have let us down with their silence. I think the message must come from communities transplanted to the United States and other nations. Their unwillingness to speak with exceptions makes me wonder just how well they have assimilated.

  132. Hey Hucking, you need to put down the Crane Brinton and pick up the Samuel P. Huntington. Your so 1996, man.

    Damn..the beard speaks and gold/silver go to the moon. Bernanke is like fucking King Midas.

    I would have lost my ass on those silver puts.

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