Personhood Comes to Mississippi

There was a time when the only “hood” conjured up by mention of the State of Mississippi was the white hood of the Klansman as he burned crosses and lynched blacks. My, what a difference some sixty years make! Now Mississippi’s concern for civil rights reaches all the way back into the uterus. Tomorrow, the citizens of Mississippi will vote on whether the state constitution should be amended to define “personhood” as the point at which the human female egg is fertilized by the male sperm. With a person thus defined, a whole new class of homicides could conceivably be on the books in no time flat.

This legal definition of “person” is clearly designed to challenge Roe v. Wade and that in itself is not so bad. It might even be considered a clever way of attacking the 1973 Supreme Court decision. The problem is that the definition shows no understanding of human biology and is therefore patently absurd. You see, the definition does not specify that the fertilized egg must be implanted in the wall of the uterus. Without that specification all sorts of ridiculous results occur.

  • Very often, fertilized eggs leave the woman via menstruation, having never successfully attached to the uterine wall. This “crime” of a discarded person would not even get noticed.
  • At least two forms of birth control, the IUD and the “morning after pill” prevent implantation of a fertilized egg. This interference in the development of a “person” would be homicide.
  • Since in vitro fertilization involves the fertilization of multiple eggs outside the womb and reintroduction of a subset of those zygotes back into the womb, those “persons” outside of that subset would not be allowed to live, hence murder by definition of the constitutional amendment. This means in vitro procedures would have to be changed such that only one egg is fertilized and reintroduced into the womb, thereby greatly decreasing the likelihood of pregnancy.

As Chris Hayes of The Nation magazine and MSNBC pondered last weekend on his show “Up”, what kind of enforcement mechanism would be in place to support this amendment? Would the uterus suddenly, in the words of The Daily Beast’s Michelle Goldberg, become a “crime scene”? Would every miscarriage trigger a criminal investigation?

Clearly a major component in the abortion debate is an understanding of when life begins. Reasonable people can differ on this. However, pregnancy itself is defined as starting with implantation of the zygote into the uterine wall, at which point it becomes an embryo. So if we agree that abortion is termination of a pregnancy, then we cannot count a zygote as being “aborted”. Until implantation, the woman is not pregnant. So loss of a zygote cannot be abortion.

The bottom line is that the proposed amendment ignores biology and goes too far in its attempt to stop abortions. If the amendment passes, it will be a triumph of moral fervor over scientific knowledge and common sense.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

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328 thoughts on “Personhood Comes to Mississippi

  1. I wished they took a more pragmatic approach.

    I think a heart beat would be a great compromise. Abortion would be defined as murder if a heart beat can be detected. 6 to 7 weeks.

  2. Rutherford, your embryology is somewhat antiquated – but then I would expect that when you get your medical information from MSNBC and the queer Chris Hayes – what a goober. 😈

    Let’s see if I remember my embryology. Implantation generally occurs somewhere around the 7-9th day if memory serves. But the zygote is clearly “alive” by everybody conceivable definition of biology. So I would say that pregnancy begins at conception and my medical books by strict definition agree. You can view the fertilized egg with the naked eye, and it will appear about the size of the period at the end of this sentence.

    Implantation is a convenient method of measuring the pregnancy because menstruation stops and the 40 week gestation count starts. But by the time of implementation, the embryo consists of a mass of undifferentiated cells (have neo-Darwinian types explain how those little jewels “just happened” to evolve 🙂 ) that will become 75 trillion cells and fully human.

    But that is really beside the point.

    —————

    I think Ron Paul is an absolute loon, but he gave a beautiful answer for my position in one of the debates pertaining to abortion, which would even account for that red herring of the ‘safe, rare and legal’. Allow for rape and incest victims to accept abortifacient drugs for a determined amount of time TBD (48-96 hours ❓ – but require they file a police report in doing so).

    Though many pro-life members would call me pro-choice for making such a statement, it’s the only pragmatic approach that would cover all bases, would be moral IMO and address those difficulties none of have a good answer, and stand a chance of holding up in the courts. To me, its the most prudent compromise and one I have given quite some thought to.

    I still believe the only real excuse for aborting an embryo is saving the life of a mother.

    But Roe v. Wade definitely needs to be revoked, and the decision returned to the states. None of the promises made by the abortion on demand crowd have come to pass as promised, and the law was passed on a series of lies and propaganda, including that back alley abortion crap.

    Brother Rabbit’s suggestion would be the next best alternative, but the heart is beating at about 22 days (if I remember my embryology right), and some women wouldn’t even recognize their pregnancy in many instances.

  3. Tigre,

    I promise you the proof. I want to avoid the urban legend stuff and get it right.

    At a meeting an administrator brought up that he had just read journals on the huge influx of lawsuits over special ed.

    I emailed him and told him I’d like to read that stuff and he hasn’t even responded.

    I’m so damn busy, I don’t have much time to research myself.

  4. Tex, what’s your views on current fertility practices?

    What a tangled web we weave. The real problem is Rabbit, like so many things today, our scientific know how is light years ahead of our bioethics.

    My views on fertility practices are torn. On one hand, I want a couple to have every opportunity to enjoy the greatest joy I have experienced in my life, which is the birth of my two daughters, shared with my one true love and best friend.

    On the other, fertility practices are so open to abuse, I wonder if we are intervening in things we shouldn’t, where we don’t have all the answers. Life is precious and must be respected.

    I support the practice, within reason. But I still feel embryos have great worth and are not to be easily discarded like used tissue.

  5. Not that I’m beginning to feel cursed or anything, but we just had another aftershock here. But the problem is we are also under a severe weather alert with 70-80mph winds.

    So when the house starts to rock, like it just did a minute ago, I can’t tell if it’s a tornado, lightning or an earthquake.

    If a plague of locust descends, or I’m struck by boils or glowing hail falls accompanied by fire, I am going to take that as a sign that God (1) is telling me to go back to work; (2) to get off my lazy rear end; (3) that the Rutherford Lawson blog is not the place I am supposed to be; (4) start attending church again regularly. 😦

  6. I think a heart beat would be a great compromise. Abortion would be defined as murder if a heart beat can be detected. 6 to 7 weeks.

    Rabbit, I think that is one of the most reasonable, rational, least knee-jerk-emotional things you have ever said on the topic of abortion. Kudos man.

  7. Rutherford, your embryology is somewhat antiquated – but then I would expect that when you get your medical information from MSNBC and the queer Chris Hayes – what a goober. 😈

    No my embryology doesn’t come from MSNBC. Granted, my source is far from bullet proof but I didn’t have time to go to the library and read arcane medical texts.

    Although pregnancy begins with implantation, the process leading to pregnancy occurs earlier as the result of the female gamete, or oocyte, merging with the male gamete, spermatozoon. In medicine this process is referred to as fertilization; in lay terms, it is more commonly known as “conception.” — highlighting provided by me.

    Further information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zygote
    and In humans, the embryo is defined as the product of conception from implantation in the uterus through the eighth week of development. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embryo (Granted this piece has been called out by Wiki as lacking expert references. Feel free Tex to point out where it is wrong.)

    As for your exceptions for rape and incest, it makes you very simply a hypocrite of the highest order. Either life is precious and the child is not to blame for the identity of his/her father or you don’t really find life to be all that precious after all.

    The rape/incest exception disqualifies you from lecturing me on the subject any further. 😐

  8. But I still feel embryos have great worth and are not to be easily discarded like used tissue.

    Strictly speaking, embryos are not discarded, zygotes are. Unless you are talking about selective abortion which does occur in some instances of IVF.

  9. I am going to take that as a sign that God …

    You left out choice 5 … the second coming. Keep your eyes peeled dude, ole Jesus may knock on your door any day now!

  10. Off topic …. on the Herman Cain refrain, my wife made an interesting observation.

    According to Ms. Bialek, when Herman shoved her head toward his candy Cain, she responded by saying “What are you doing? You know I have a boyfriend. This is not what I came here for.”

    You know I have a boyfriend??? What kind of way is that to respond to an attempted sexual assault? If she didn’t have a bf, it would have been ok?

    It’s just one more reason why the statement just doesn’t ring true for me. I smell fabrication big time.

    This from The Daily News:
    “She’s had a lot of jobs, and some problems, but I don’t want to get too personal,” her dad said.

    In 1999, Bialek became embroiled in a paternity petition over her son with marketing executive West Naze, according to Chicago court records and one of the lawyers involved in the case.

    The case began as a petition to establish parentage and continued through at least 2009 with orders for family counseling, parenting courses, and child support and education expenses to be paid.

    Naze could not be reached for comment. His family declined to comment.

    Bialek twice filed for bankruptcy protection, in 1991 and in 2001, court records show.

    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/friends-family-herman-cain-accuser-sharon-bialek-call-honest-article-1.974052#ixzz1d5nrWnOD

  11. R, you’re missing the obvious. He was zipped. . . and pushing her head to his crotch. . . after withdrawing his hand from under her skirt because she protested. . . all while she was talking about she boyfriend? Try reenacting that in the theatre of your mind.

    As Imus said the other morning, “in the Clinton-days that wasn’t called harassment — it was called ‘dating.'”

    Politico lost a lot of cred in my book with this. If there agenda wasn’t politically (or ideologically) motivated, they needed to source this story appropriately. Instead they offered only enough to cast a specter and count on the left and Cain’s opponents to run with it.

    Journ-o-lost strikes again.

  12. 3. . . 2. . . 1. . ring, ring. . . ring, ring. . . “Honey, someone named Larry Flynt wants to interview you for an article. . . and he says he is willing to pay.”

  13. As for your exceptions for rape and incest, it makes you very simply a hypocrite of the highest order.

    Really? Well, you explaining science is like Poolman demonstrating math.

    I didn’t make exceptions lightly – I called them criminal. I added but require they file a police report in doing so. If that makes me a hypocrite in your book because I recognize we will never advance overturning Roe v. Wade until that red herring is addressed, then so be it. Of your many weaknesses, negotiation – or lack thereof – can be added to the list.

    Strictly speaking, embryos are not discarded, zygotes are.

    They don’t call it EMBRYONIC stem cell research for nothing. So though technically your correct about it being defined as a zygote, a fertilized egg is most commonly referred to as an embryo, even when discussing research. If you think that makes you sound informed, I’m happy for you. 😉

    I noticed from the pictures the other night while snooping, not only is your little girl very cute, but a few other things “popped out.” I don’t find you in an enviable position – your arrogance here, I’ll accept as little boy frightened lashing out.

  14. Oh my, what a can of worms we have here. You know, I recall if you cut worms in up to 4 pieces, you can have 4 worms. I think it has something to do with them having 4 separate hearts and such. I don’t want to research it, but that is what I recall from my limited science education.

    Of course that was the 70’s and there were many mind altering moments then and since. 🙂

    The one heart and heartbeat concept has some validity in this argument, I think. Prior to that, it is just cells dividing.

    But personhood is something beyond genetics. We recognize individuality in all lifeforms. With people, we are told (biblically) they have a soul and spirit. Those are harder to gauge from the physical matter. The conscience is there, an intangible essence of humanity somehow blended with the physical manifestation of a man, most of them anyway.

    If we use the biblical sources for validation, those clearly indicate that people were not counted until after birth, sometimes years and sometimes months and sometimes only male. But spirits and souls, considered eternal, are sometimes “known” by God prior to being “formed”, and sometimes while being “knitted” in the womb.

    It is a tough source to use in trying to make a distinction. Scientifically, life takes many lesser forms than a full blown human. The very cells are “alive” if they exhibit the most basic actions and components.

    There are “scripture” sources beyond our canonized Bible that claim one of the fallen angels taught abortion to mankind. If that is true, the process has a long history and tradition in our civilization. It was also noted as an “evil” teaching, along with the teaching of making weaponry and waging war.

    Really though, I think we spend too much time trying to turn the whole process into one of morality. It looks rather hypocritical on the whole, if one can view it from a purely unemotional position. The whole “life is precious” argument falls apart in the grand scheme of this human experiment. We should fix the dire situations faced by the known “living” and work to rectify the existing immoral practices that plaque the existing breathing populace. That would give those new lives being formed a better destination and experience for the time they are conscious here in this realm of reality.

    And from the biblical perspective, life means eternal life. Life otherwise for today is considered basically a waste. A useless endeavor of consumption and toil. Eternal life on the side of good requires a spiritual rebirth, since all those born into this “life” are considered spiritual enemies of God. That rebirth requires one to be conscious and exhibit a conscience.

    Just my 2.5 cents worth…

  15. Thought for the day as it regards our current “leaders”:

    “When small men begin to cast big shadows, it means that the sun is about to set.” -Lin Yutang, writer and translator (1895-1976)

  16. She also told her boyfriend about it.

    No, it’s worse than that Tigre. She didn’t give her boyfriend or her mentor at the time (both of whom submitted affidavits) any DETAILS because she was embarrassed. So her corroborating witnesses can only say that she said she was harassed. They can’t speak to any of the details.

    This fiasco pisses me off enough I almost want to see Cain go all the way to 1600 PA Ave just to spite them all. 👿

  17. Of your many weaknesses, negotiation – or lack thereof – can be added to the list.

    Now that is kinda funny. You are one of the most absolute folks I’ve encountered since my Mom, the Queen of Absolutists died seven years ago. Let’s just say I wouldn’t be nominating you for Ambassador to too many countries.

    Calling you (and Rabbit) a hypocrite may be harsh but you folks get very high and mighty about the sanctity of life. One would think there would be NO compromise on this. What bothers me further, is that abortion is palatable to you when some deviant sex act is connected to it. It reflects a puritanical sex-is-bad-and-to-be-feared mindset typical of conservatives and the devout.

    Preservation of life is a concept independent of any sexual behavior. If the circumstances of a pregnancy allow a loophole in your anti-abortion conviction, then where does the slippery slope end? “My girl got knocked up by a black guy who’s on the run. I don’t want no Negroes in my family. It’s abortion time!!”

  18. I recently learned something about my family that I did not know.

    I was looking at a family tree that my aunt posted, and there was another brother of hers that I never knew about. I called her to ask.

    It seems that my grandmother had a third child she carried to term who was stillborn. I only point this out because he was still someone’s son, someone’s brother, someone’s uncle, despite the fact that he didn’t live long enough to draw breath. He was someone that the family had made preparations for, and who was missed when he didn’t take his place among the family. He was named long before he was born, with the name of my grandfather’s favorite brother.

    I think about this when I read the spinning arguments about not really giving a damn about children until they’ve been around for a few years (Thank you John Holdren, you sociopathic scumbag) , and I think about the couples who have a hard time bearing children, as one of my co-bloggers did, and how he and his wife’s first son was also stillborn. He too was eagerly anticipated, and planned for. He too had a name, and his brief time here also left a lasting impression on those who knew of him.

  19. but a few other things “popped out.”

    Cryptic. Since I’m assuming you’re referring to something you think I don’t want aired in this forum (I can only guess), at least satisfy my curiosity and write me privately as to what “popped out” at you.

    While I don’t want to discredit your psychoanalytic skills, I am stumped what could possibly be gleaned from my public profile that would label me a “little boy frightened lashing out.”

    BTW, I did try to find you on FB but only came up with one profile with a young person’s picture … and I KNOW you ain’t that well preserved. 😉

  20. BiW, you are absolutely right. My brother-in-law had a stillborn son who had a name and if I’m not mistaken has a burial plot.

    This post, of course, does not touch upon that. Surely you agree that there is no emotional investment until a woman actually KNOWS she is pregnant. That is why this “personhood” thing is so poorly defined. Zygotes are not planned for, nor are they named, nor are they eagerly anticipated. Embryos on the other hand are. The personhood amendment would make more sense if we were talking about the living being that has made itself known to its host as is the custom in the early stages of pregnancy (stopped menstrual cycle for example).

    And I would request that Tex allow me to continue to use the word zygote in this discussion because in this discussion the difference between a zygote and an embryo DOES matter. The fact that the term embryo is loosely used to cover both entities muddies this discussion and removes from it the precision that is needed.

  21. Calling you (and Rabbit) a hypocrite may be harsh but you folks get very high and mighty about the sanctity of life….One would think there would be NO compromise on this. What bothers me further, is that abortion is palatable to you when some deviant sex act is connected to it.

    I’m not high and mighty about anything. Concerning abortion, Rabbit and I are the prudent ones involved in the discussion between the three of us. Both Rabbit and I have either led or said that since we can’t prove when life begins, we take the most pragmatic approach, believing the most innocent of life is very sacred. Rabbit’s story of his wife’s difficulty is well known here, and he understands the heartache more than most of us. BIC has shared his stories of his boys, and I would wager in both situations, becoming a father had a profound effect in the evaluation of what is really important in this life. For anybody with a touch of class, it can’t help but do so.

    And I’m not a hypocrite, because I don’t find rape or incest cases of abortion palatable as you attest. I called both criminal. In fact, I have now made note on this very thread as I have many times here before, the only acceptable case of abortion to me is if there is a choice between life of mother and child. There’s nothing hypocritical getting beyond the bogus lies that are used by your ilk to justify over a million abortions a year. I am calling your bluff, over a case passed by the most outrageous of lies which has done nothing but cheapen life in this country and led to the extermination of 50,000,000+ babies.

    I have recently begin to reevaluate my position, not because I have changed my opinion of abortion being heinous and wrong. That is without question. But it occurred to me, a majority of abortions are performed by people that would spit in my face given the chance, steal my money and property, are hostile to my faith, assisted in helping to make life cheap, have led to a societal cesspool from which I have had to guard my children, leading their lives and attempting to force me where I don’t want to go.

    Be glad I have some semblance of God in my life. Left to my own accord, I could easily rationalize not only allowing abortion from your side, but encouraging it – the fewer of you, the better.

    You’ll get no personal note in return. I am done with that. The message will remain cryptic. A simple observation was made – one frankly, that saddened me until I was once again reminded this morning, we are not friends but foes. I find little or nothing fair about you. From your radio broadcasts when the unencumbered you pops out of his shell, I have determined I could not stand to be in your presence, as I am sure your life dominated by nothing but leftist politics and irreligiosity. You would not like me.

    I am more than happy to debate those ideas in an open forum as I enjoy the give and take and can walk anytime I wish. But as far as having a personal relationship with liberals?

    I’m no longer interested.

    You along with countless others of your mindset have managed to accomplish one thing the last 10 years Rutherford – a hardening of my heart.

  22. Again, I want to repeat that I think Rabbit has presented an excellent definition to help sort things out. Only the most callous among us can deny that a heartbeat signifies life.

  23. From your radio broadcasts when the unencumbered you pops out of his shell

    Now come on, do elaborate. What did I say that pissed you off this time? Hell, with Sandi as co-host I hardly get a word in. 😕

    we are not friends but foes.

    You do have lots of trouble seeing middle ground don’t you? “You’re with me or against me.” You know damn well we differ on lots of issues but we also see eye to eye on some.

    It’s easier for you to peg me as some cookie-cutter liberal but you know better. I’m as complicated (and contradictory) as anyone else here. Tigre keeps asking me to defend Obama. If I were drunk on the Koolaid, I would. I’m not. I don’t regret my vote in 2008. I made the same wager that lots of others made. Things didn’t turn out quite as I planned and I see that as much as a lack of my own political maturity as any failure on Obama’s part. Besides, what was I going to do? Vote for McCain/Palin (I just threw up a bit in my mouth 😦 )

    In any case, you don’t have liberals to blame for your heart hardening. Maybe you’re as guilty of wanting skittle-sh*tting unicorns as the rest of us and you’re just bummed it didn’t turn out that way?

  24. While I find Ms. Bialek’s testimony highly suspect, it does amaze me that in the center of the storm, Cain goes on Jimmy Kimmel Live and yuks it up …. AND the audience applauds him!!! There was a time that this kind of scandal would cause the candidate to cancel public appearances. Have the times changed or is Cain so righteous in his belief of his own innocence that he just says screw it?

    P.S. He told Kimmel, he wouldn’t pay Gloria Allred “for anything”. Ouch!!! Nothing like getting the feminists even more pissed off!

  25. I am calling your bluff, over a case passed by the most outrageous of lies which has done nothing but cheapen life in this country and led to the extermination of 50,000,000+ babies.

    I want to challenge this statement. Life is “cheapened” by the quality of it. Second to second, minute to minute, hour to hour, day to day, ad infinitum.

    To that end, it should be most critical to improve those existing conditions that contribute to that quality, not to a few, but to ALL, if you truly value ALL “babies.”

    Babies. What are babies, really?

    While in the womb, they are becoming people. They are not independent just as you cannot physically exist outside the womb without the very elements of this planet. Period.

    That means you have a right to access to the very elements of this planet. To deny another those basic elements diminishes the very quality of life you claim to uphold. Period.

  26. You along with countless others of your mindset have managed to accomplish one thing the last 10 years Rutherford – a hardening of my heart.

    God hardened the heart of Pharoah. Did He harden yours? Only love can soften hearts. Forgive them, they truly do not know what they do. Blinded by this world and those whose witchery bewitches.

  27. “When small men begin to cast big shadows, it means that the sun is about to set.” -Lin Yutang, writer and translator (1895-1976)

    Or it’s about to rise again. Don’t let the bastards bring you down R. 🙂

  28. “Tigre keeps asking me to defend Obama. If I were drunk on the Koolaid, I would.”

    I do because I too know you will vote for him again. And it’s mighty strange to mock the republican lineup with no comments about The One. To cast criticism with nothing to compare it to but a total divisive failure just sounds odd when it so directly impacts any street cred required for your observations to mean anything.

    But I know you’re not a retard. I never expected you to discuss Obama’s performance. Just skipping stones. . .

  29. Woman number 5, sort of.

    http://nation.foxnews.com/herman-cain/2011/11/08/fifth-woman-raises-questions-about-cains-behavior

    “And after the seminar was over,” Donella told The Washington Examiner, “Cain came over to me and a colleague and said, ‘Could you put me in touch with that lovely young lady who asked the question, so I can give her a more thorough answer over dinner?'”

    Donella, who no longer works for USAID, said they were suspicious of Cain’s motives and declined to set up the date. Cain responded, “Then you and I can have dinner.” That’s when two female colleagues intervened and suggested they all go to dinner together, Donella said.

    Cain exhibited no inappropriate sexual behavior during the dinner, though he did order two $400 bottles of wine and stuck the women with the bill, she said.

    Read more: http://nation.foxnews.com/herman-cain/2011/11/08/fifth-woman-raises-questions-about-cains-behavior#ixzz1d8xGJT9i

  30. Poolman, save your false sense of self piety for someone else – no matter how gentlemanly. It’s hideously revolting and you’re not only not worthy to judge success, you’re not worthy to even judge failure. If that’s your idea of kill them with kindness or gentle nature, it’s not working. I find you more revolting with each passing day.

    ————

    Rutherford,

    Your last post us was so glib, I don’t care to further elaborate. But I will say this to conclude the personal message. I have not listened to your radio show in months, nor will I. I’m in no funk, and in fact feel very blessed most days – and in a good mood, though you do manage to sully the mood on occasion by your facetious nature, and the dearth of little edification here. Since the Fat Grannies crowd appeared, there is no doubt the blog has taken a turn for the worse, rocketing toward ground, generally out of control. I found your charges of hypocrite egregious as usual, as my position on abortion still consistent from the day I arrived.

    I just suddenly realized last week, no matter how we spin in or in my weak moments when I like to think we have some cordial relationship, I soon get a reminder that we would hate each others guts outside the world of internet illusion. Negotiation with a liberal is as futile as negotiation with a jihadist. You don’t rationalize with irrational people.

    I say my heart is hardened because I have little or no tolerance for the abject stupidity of liberalism anymore – the cost too high, the damage too great. I would have to believe that is now abundantly clear in my tone. Where there was a time I tried to practice forgiveness, I now find myself practicing restraint.

    Abort away. That it predominately prays on that closest to you, I will concern myself no more, and certainly will do absolutely nothing to stop it.

    Maybe in some twisted way, it is a self-correcting mechanism on the order of Sodom, and I just need to turn my back and let their walls crumble, with the idea of defending my own, should it become necessary. That is what I think of each and every time I read and see of these insidious protests at OWS.

    It would have been better had most never been born.

  31. I do because I too know you will vote for him again.

    If Jon Huntsman is the nominee, I will truly have to make a choice. If Herman Cain is the nominee (not likely) I might allow my perverse streak to win out and vote for him (and I don’t mean sexually perverse, I mean politically perverse). As for anyone else, Obama is the better choice. And I say this even though I love much of what Ron Paul says. But I fear a vote for Paul is the same as a 2008 vote for Obama. It is expecting the impossible. Paul’s foreign policy, were he POTUS would never come to pass. There are too many powerful interests in his way.

    And another thing …. if Christie were the nominee, I’d have a damn hard time in that voting booth. I get a major kick out of Christie.

  32. “Now THAT’s harassment! Think he might do that to America if elected?”

    At least he’d limit to two. . . unlike Obama.

  33. “As for anyone else, Obama is the better choice.”

    That’s a confession. You’ll vote for Obama again. Thanks. 🙄

  34. “I think a heart beat would be a great compromise. Abortion would be defined as murder if a heart beat can be detected. 6 to 7 weeks.”-me

    R, you do realize this isn’t my take on life. Its simply my vehicle to save the slaughter of millions of babies in the womb, as this seems like it could be reasonably passed as law.

  35. Your last post us was so glib

    Well you’ve got me stumped again. Are you referring to the article itself or my comment calling you a hypocrite? The actual post is not at all glib (other than my shot at pre-civil-rights Mississippi). I think it takes on an important question of the absurdity of an amendment that can find no rational enforcement and does more harm than good (including making it more difficult for couples desperate to have children to have them).

    As far as the concept of abortion, we are in 100% agreement. The only “valid” reason for an abortion is when the mother’s life is at risk. As you well know, where we disagree is the extent to which the government should be involved in the decision.

  36. Well Tigre, based on the strong likelihood of Romney as nominee, yes I will vote for Obama again. But I won’t be holding my nose quite as tightly as you’ll be holding yours. 😆

  37. There should be a national holiday celebrating women who have given their baby up for adoption instead of murdering it.

    Its obviously a touchy subject…these women could give a shit about some free meal at Applebee’s or something like that. It aint Veteran’s day.

    Personal recognition wouldn’t be the key.

    That being said, this country needs a day celebrating and bringing attention to the option of adoption.

  38. “SoCal Street Cart Vendors Hurting After ‘Occupy’ Group Splatters Blood, Urine” – ET

    No proof, no witnesses and no charges filed. It’s being pushed by a councilman running for Mayor. When asked about it by OWS, he refused to comment. The owner made the same type of accusation three years ago against homeless people.
    OSD, for its part, has asked them to come back. They miss BUYING food and coffee from them.

    Occupy San Diego as a group is committed to nonviolence in word and deed and frowns upon actions like those that are claimed to have brought misfortune to these local businesses. Occupy San Diego will present donations to Centre City Coffee and Brooklyn Dogs as a symbol of peaceful cooperation with all parties at the Civic Center.

    We are led to believe that these businesses are having hard times because of the public events in the square. But the coffee cart complained of rampant homelessness and dangerous conditions in an April 22, 2008 letter to City Beat (attached below), long before Occupy San Diego was on the scene. The fact that there are now dozens and sometimes hundreds or thousands of people in the square – potential customers for these businesses – seems to be missed in the rush to blame Occupy San Diego for any challenges these business may face. A nearby business – Downtown Johnny Browns – reports that their business is up at least 60%. The normally vacant square is filled, around the clock, with people with money jingling in their pockets.

    http://occupysandiego.org/

    The ironic thing is this story kind of follows the same line as Cain’s, but in this case, I am forced to defend the accusee and you the accuser. I’m starting to understand the pain of lawyers. 🙂

  39. No, your post isn’t glib. The post makes some valid points – though your importance of the argument of zygote vs. embryo is typical semantics from the Left and baffle with bullshit. It is not that confusing. The Mississippi approach does indeed open Pandora’s box, though the idiots at MSNBC are interested only in the politics and scoring points. The only lives that matter to them are their own – they are the worst form of humanity. It’s the same patronizing way they treat the military; fodder. Despicable people.

    About your post, I for all intents in purposes agreed with the gist of the post. And I said as much in my response – hence, my confusion of the nasty nature of your response(s) from last night.

    But there is absolutely nothing hypocritical about my suggestions. That’s a bogus charge. In fact, it pissed me off, because I was trying to be quite reasonable.

    And it is times like that, when I let my guard down and simply talk, that you revert back to being a punk and asshole, convincing me I wouldn’t like you in real life.

  40. Westcoast homeless are a particularly violent and wacked out species of the Genus InasaniousMotherfuckeris. My theory is the constant warm weather emboldens them more.

    The fact that they had a problem with homeless 3 years ago doesn’t surprise me, nor should it cast doubt on them.

    San Diego is a nice town, but their homeless are aggressive as fuck. Even in that Gaslamp area.

    Occupy Detroit has about 150 people. The idiots are getting everything stolen from them. They pretty much have to pay tribute to the local homeless, who regard the area their turf.

    It don’t matter where you go, a motherfucker has to pay rent. I wonder if that irony has crossed their minds.

  41. “As for anyone else, Obama is the better choice.”

    That’s a confession. You’ll vote for Obama again. Thanks

    Retching, isn’t it? Of course Rutherford will vote for Obama. There has never been a doubt in my mind that Rutherford would do otherwise, no matter the opponent, no matter the situation. The country could collapse, and Rutherford will be doing in 2012 what he has always done – pulling the straight Dim lever.

    The chances of Rutherford voting for anyone but Obama are equal to the chances of me voting for Obama. 🙄

  42. Such bullshit.

    http://margaretandhelen.wordpress.com/2011/01/25/sometimes-men-should-just-stick-to-football/

    This phony bitch hauls out every lie. Birth defects, poverty, back alley butchers, rape, incest. Rutherford, I’m sure you remember it all too well.

    And this puke was all over it –

    “Bravo! Go Helen!
    God bless you and Margaret.
    Good to see you so on fire and passionate. 😀

    I enjoyed this one much. Really. I mean it.”

    By: poolman on January 25, 2011
    at 2:09 PM

    Sick.

  43. Thorazine, the freebies ended and they threw bags of piss and blood, and they deny it?

    I wasn’t there, but it all makes me want to go poop on something. . . 🙄

    Assuming what you said is true, I’ll give it the old Dan Rather, a liberal favorite: “False but accurate.”

  44. Hey Poolman, how come you never gloriously suck Rutherford’s dick like you used to at that site? Where did the enthusiasm go? Its not because R is black is it? Your not holding out on some 88 stuff are you? Owens race still piss you off? Or is it just the Jews and R isn’t radical enough.

  45. Oh Muff! My stalker is back! Digging up the past again, are you? Yeah, I remember that one. It’s when Helen jumped back at Noah’s banal rantings. You’re such a visionary. 🙄 Every time I hear this song, I think of you.

  46. The only valid reason I can put a bullet in your head is in self defense.

    Shall we leave the government out of that one, too?

    Oh good googly moogly. Can you not at least admit there are TWO lives sharing one physical space? Does that not complicate matters in the least bit for you?

  47. I feel like I’m watching two friends break up and I don’t want to pick sides. Can’t you guys just go “Fight Club” on each other then have a beer and make up. 🙂

  48. Oh Muff! My stalker is back! Digging up the past again, are you? Yeah, I remember that one. It’s when Helen jumped back at Noah’s banal rantings. You’re such a visionary. 🙄 Every time I hear this song, I think of you.

    Baloney Poolman – once again, your pretentious nature is busted. Muffy is not stalking you – that’s one of a hundred any of us could have pulled from a number of sites. Your hypocritical, mealy-mouthed, double speak bullshit is all over the net.

    You aren’t so naive to think I’m the only one here that recognizes what a duplicitous sack of shit you are, do you?

  49. I was trying to be quite reasonable.

    Mmmmm review comment 4 (your first) where you start by attacking my lack of med school education. Then, after telling me what a biological idiot I am, you go on to defend a Ron Paul compromise solution which flies in the face of the strident stand you and Rabbit have taken on this issue over the past couple of years.

    I didn’t view you as “letting your guard down”. If I had, I would have been gentler. If you re-read comment 4, nowhere there does it say (or even hint) “I pretty much agree with your post.”

    You’ve been on this blog long enough now that I know when you’re letting your guard down and I act accordingly. If this was one of those times, my barometer must need some tuning. 😐

  50. Rutherford, I’m sure you remember it all too well.

    How could I forget it Muffy? My rude introduction to that strange assortment that hangs at M&H. It was a disgusting post in terms of its tone and some of the comments doubled down on disgusting or just plain stupid.

  51. As with many of your excrementally inspired daytime delusions rabbit, I never did “gloriously suck Rutherford’s dick”, there or anywhere else. As a matter of fact, until you actually succeed in raising a child and go beyond just producing one, you can just eat shit.

  52. “Assuming what you said is true, I’ll give it the old Dan Rather, a liberal favorite: “False but accurate.”” – ET

    You might be on to something. Your link was to a CBS affiliate. 🙂

    If they did it, they should be punished. But with all the live streaming and press and police and cell phones, you’d think someone would have some proof. If it comes forward, I will condemn those involved.

  53. Mmmmm review comment 4 (your first) where you start by attacking my lack of med school education. Then, after telling me what a biological idiot I am, you go on to defend a Ron Paul compromise solution which flies in the face of the strident stand you and Rabbit have taken on this issue over the past couple of years.

    I don’t think I made any mention of your “medical school education”, biological idiot, or lack thereof. Antiquated doesn’t mean wrong – it means not current. MSNBC is a cheer leader for abortion on demand and you know it. And still you quote it. 99% of libs hold abortion as a sacrament.

    And you got pissed because I made fun of your new found hero, that queer Chris Hayes – a male weasel on par with the ferret faced Chaz Maddow.

    Then you called me a hypocrite, though my response says and I quote: I still believe the only real excuse for aborting an embryo is saving the life of a mother.

    Now you want to tell me how that makes me a hypocrite again, because that has been my message from the git go here?

    Cool accompanying picture, by the way. Where did you find it?

  54. If it were true, I’d make a good LIBERAL politician or courtroom CLASS ACTION attorney.

    FIFY.

    But the combover and corn in the teeth would be a dead give away you’re still a bohunk.

  55. “Westcoast homeless are a particularly violent and wacked out species of the Genus InasaniousMotherfuckeris. My theory is the constant warm weather emboldens them more.” – Rabbit

    You must be thinking of the sub-species, Fairweatherous. Very tempermental but rarely spotted north of San Francisco in the winter. 😉 Seattle is wet and sloppy for six months and if you venture east of the cascades, it gets damn cold. Not Detroit cold, but cold.

  56. Hey Brotha Rabbit,

    I called up the Thrilla in Manila last night as a tribute to Smokin’ Joe.

    Man, those three fights were brutal – that was back in the days before they ruined boxing. I had forgotten Ali/Frazier I was pay per view, and I had forgotten just how tough Smokin’ Joe was. He took a Rocky beating and still kept coming. His face was so swollen in that last fight, Joe didn’t even look human.

    It may be a long time, if ever, we see quality fights like those 70s and 80s gems. I still think that Marvelous Marvin/Sugar Ray and Hearns/Sugar Ray fight ranked up there with Joe and Muhammad.

  57. how come you never gloriously suck Rutherford’s dick like you used to at that site?

    Rabbit, that comment confused me as well as Poolman. If by “that site” you mean Fat Grannies, I only visited there once, got pummeled by most everyone there, and really don’t recall any exchange with Poolman one way or the other.

  58. Cool accompanying picture, by the way. Where did you find it?

    Yeah I liked the pic too. I got lucky finding that one. Click on the photo credit link at the bottom of the post to find the original.

  59. Tex, we are not even in the same dimension as the Ali era.

    The heavy weight division is a void the size of this galaxy.

    This Penn State story is unbearable.

    Such evil in this world.

    If that was my son, I’d do time for the rest of my life with pride.

  60. And what did you do? You fell down on your knees and worshipped her for it.

    Girl! ( I assume) 😐 I don’t know what you’ve been smoking. However, if praise for someone’s perceived poignant post constitutes submission and worship, we need to go back and examine your “relationship” with Tex, among others on this board. Care for a little trip down virtual memory lane?

  61. The audio on this sucks but I remember as a kid watching this confrontation as it was broadcast. The Ali/Cosell partnership was a thing to behold. We’ll never have another sports broadcaster like Howard Cosell.

  62. However, if praise for someone’s perceived poignant post constitutes submission and worship,

    Poignant post? 😡

    You use the word poignant to describe that pack of despicable lies from the ditz, the phony author, who trotted out every known pejorative, lie and distortion to sell her love of the mill. Poignant? More like reprehensible.

    And your response to the pack of lies, Brick?

    Bravo! God bless! Fire and passionate! I enjoyed this one much. I mean it.

    *** VOMIT ***

    God Bless 50 million abortions? 😡

    You’re a disgrace.

  63. I’m no big Penn State or Joe Pa fan, but I don’t want to see him walked out the door in disgrace either. He’s done too much for the game of college football, and I understand he gives most of his salary back to the university. He’s one of the few good ambassadors left in sports – or so I thought.

    That story sickened me. I hope we find out that Joe Pa wasn’t involved in the cover up. I haven’t been following it. If he was, Joe Pa deserves to be frogmarched to the old folks home and put to pasture.

  64. Its starting to look like Joe didn’t do shit when he heard about the rape of a ten year old.

    He deserves to be forced to run the ball for 4 full downs in a Big 10 game. That should do the trick.

  65. “Poignant” 😆

    “The supreme end of education is expert discernment in all things — the power to tell the good from the bad, the genuine from the counterfeit, and to prefer the good and the genuine to the bad and the counterfeit.” -Charles Grosvenor Osgood

  66. Hate to gloat but …

    Ohio — union busting bill defeated.
    Mississippi — amendment to declare zygotes people: defeated.

    Mmmmm Liberals: 2
    Conservatives: zippo, nada, zilch, bupkis

    Guess the country’s not as conservative as you boys and girls thought. There may be “hope” for Obama yet. 😆

  67. I finally got a chance to watch Herman’s press conference today. Man did he back himself into a corner. Not only denied the latest charges but said he never met Bialek in his life.

    Supposedly there is already a video just waiting to be released to prove otherwise. Apparently, one of the two original accusers has revealed her name and will come forward with details tomorrow. It gets worse and worse by the day.

  68. Ohio — union busting bill defeated.
    Mississippi — amendment to declare zygotes people: defeated.

    Mmmmm Liberals: 2
    Conservatives: zippo, nada, zilch, bupkis

    Hey Conservatives? Set this to memory. I guarantee you – off the cuff and out of range, if you get tired of the assholes on MSNBC, say in a conversation over coffee, Rutherford is an arrogant asshole, and just like them. I guarantee it.

    🙂

  69. Oh, by the way Rachel Rutherford. I remember about this time, two years ago, when you and The Hippie, were babbling like school children about the brilliance of Obama and ObamaCare.

    You say zippo, nada, zilch, bupkis? Obama Care’s symbolic brilliance went down in a ball of flame in Ohio. I wouldn’t get too uppity, as I remember you telling us that NY 23 seat was proof that Obama still popular.

    Then we had last November.

  70. “So I’ll say it again …. you’ll be holding your nose a lot tighter when you vote for Romney than I will when I vote for Obama.”

    Really? You don’t say?
    That’s what’s so sad R. . .

  71. “Guess the country’s not as conservative as you boys and girls thought. There may be “hope” for Obama yet.” -Rutherford

    Personally I’ve never said here or anywhere that we are a right-leaning country. For whatever it’s worth I also don’t think we’re a Christian nation. We may have been once.

    That the President may keep his job – I wouldn’t be surprised. Not a bit.

    The “personhood” vote went the way I would have voted as a resident of Mississippi. If that makes me a hypocrite in your eyes, very well then. I disagree.

    “So I’ll say it again …. you’ll be holding your nose a lot tighter when you vote for Romney than I will when I vote for Obama. Bwahahahahahahaha”

    It’s a pretty hollow victory you’re yucking it up over, Rutherford. We are not doing well and the situation is getting dire.

  72. Gorilla,

    Every time I see one of those videos of another Obamaville and the chaos that follows, I’m reminded of what should happen should President Goldman Sachs win in 2012, unencumbered by the need for reelection.

    If OWS has done anything positive, it certainly has demonstrated the vileness of progressive politic. Even Tulsa, OK, has attracted the lower rung, as I witnessed last week at the busiest intersection in town which forced traffic to be rerouted. You wouldn’t believe the conglomeration of losers gathered, tatted and pierced, green hair and bones through their noses. You could practically smell the stench through the vents of the car. Filthy, disgusting people.

    As Muffy correctly stated, we are in dire straights as a nation, whether liberals realize it or not.

  73. “It’s a pretty hollow victory you’re yucking it up over, Rutherford.”

    And, as it turns out, wasn’t even a victory.

    Conservatives won 3 elections yesterday, and I am still trying to find out what happened with the Mississippi HoR that might have flipped from Dem to GOP for the 1st time since Reconstruction.

  74. “As Muffy correctly stated, we are in dire straights as a nation, whether liberals realize it or not.”

    Oh they realize it….its part of their plan for the “fundamental transformation” of America.

    Plus keeping people down so you can keep them on the teet assures people will vote (D) in order to remain on the teet.

  75. Hey G, it’s worth noting the caption that appears below the video of the crackpot:

    “It seems that many mental cases in NYC and beyond are making their way to Occupy Wall Street and have co-opted and are drowning out the original peaceful movement.”

    The movement is not the problem. The nutjobs gravitating to it are the problem. And you know that as well as I do.

    As I said to Tex a couple of threads ago (and I may have repeated it above), one problem with Occupy is the mofo’s don’t go home at the end of the day. A lot of the problems have to do with the CONSTANT occupation. Things would be better if they made this their 9-to-5 job. Show up at the park at 9am and leave at 5 EVERY day.

    There is something juvenile about combining a protest with a camp-out. The TPM avoided a lot of this crap cos they went home at the end of the day.

    But as I’ve said before, you can post videos until you turn blue in the face and it won’t change the legitimacy of the basic message behind OWS.

  76. If that makes me a hypocrite in your eyes, very well then. I disagree.

    Muffy I don’t think that makes you a hypocrite. The whole point of this post was that even for pro-life folks, this personhood thing, as it was constructed, was absurd. Sensible pro-life people voted AGAINST the amendment, as far as I’m concerned.

    The SPECIFIC hypocrisy that bothers me is the rape/incest exception for abortion.

    It’s a pretty hollow victory you’re yucking it up over, Rutherford. We are not doing well and the situation is getting dire.

    Well Muffy part of my “job” is to throw some of this stuff in the faces of my conservative gang here. Truth be told, unless Obama is different in the second term than he was in the first, you are right … it will be a hollow victory indeed. Still I fundamentally disagree with either the policies or personal ethics of the various GOP nominees that voting for Obama will definitely be the lesser evil.

    To be clear though, if Romney gets elected POTUS, I won’t be moving to Canada. I just know very little will change and there will be much teeth-gnashing from the gang here as Romney goes moderate big time.

  77. G, I assume this finding in the Gallup poll is the one you’re banging your chest about:

    Gallup finds relatively little change in the demographic composition of either major party’s supporters since 2008, even though the nation has become less Democratic, and more Republican and independent overall.

    Independents will decide the election. I think we already knew that.

  78. Muffy I don’t think that makes you a hypocrite. The whole point of this post was that even for pro-life folks, this personhood thing, as it was constructed, was absurd. Sensible pro-life people voted AGAINST the amendment, as far as I’m concerned.

    The SPECIFIC hypocrisy that bothers me is the rape/incest exception for abortion.

    And yet, when I agreed it was a poorly constructed amendment though I am adamant in my stance of “pro-life”, even gave an alternative to rape and incest being it a “zygote and agreeing with the author” without choice in the pregnancy, I am a hypocrite.

    If its possible to be hypocritical while calling another a hypocrite, I think I just witnessed it. 🙄 Unbelievable…

  79. Oh they realize it….its part of their plan for the “fundamental transformation” of America.

    Ah yes Huck … Dem’s want to destroy America.

    It seems no matter how sensible the conservative (and I consider Huck one of the more sensible ones) paranoia rules the day.

  80. Tex, this post had nothing to do with the rape/incest exception. You introduced that topic by saying you agreed with Ron Paul. I know you consider that being “accommodating”. I disagree. Either one is pro-life or one is not. There is no middle ground except where two lives are at risk, the fetus and the mother. Then seniority prevails in my opinion.

    Muffy on the other hand implied I would consider her a hypocrite for not supporting the amendment even though she is (I assume) pro-life. And my answer was no … it is not hypocritical to reject an amendment that makes a mockery of the entire pro-life movement.

  81. “Ohio — union busting bill defeated.
    Mississippi — amendment to declare zygotes people: defeated.” – R

    The Miss thing was weird to begin with. Hardly an indictment of conservatism. Even Barber said it was poorly written. But I think Republicans poo pooh Ohio at there own peril. This issue was a victory for unions, for OWS and Obama. Unions are the left’s election infrastructure and they are embolded. OWS, whether you see them as effective or not, are also pumped up. All through their forums last night people were giving props to Occup Columbus and OWS. Obama wins because he was on the side of the 61% and Romney on the side of the 37% (even though he backed it 110%)

    Back that with his call to let Detroit go bankrupt, and the rust belt just got trougher for mittens. BTW, this scenario could play out again in early 2012 in Wisconsin. The effort to recall Walker is already underway.

  82. A quick medical update: the biopsy results from the colonoscopy came back today and everything was negative: no cancer, no Crohn’s, no Ulcerative Colitis.

    That leaves me with a diagnosis of IBS (Irritable Bowel Syndrome). I’ve been told to take a fiber supplement and Imodium as needed.

    Sort of a mixed bag. While I’m glad there is nothing seriously wrong with me, I’m annoyed that there is also no 100% cure to what ails me. 😦

  83. If the government is allowed to be involved in a female’s decision to bear a child then we need to involve government in the conception of that child which involves a male and female.

    In the case of conception due to rape or incest, sterilize the male.

    In the case of conception between two consenting unmarried adults that decide on abortion, sterilize the male and female as apparently neither desire to produce children or be responsible to prevent conception.

    In the case of conception between two consenting youth that decide on abortion, give them one more chance before sterilization.

    In the case of conception between a married couple that does not involve life and death of the mother, no abortion.

    With the proper consequences administered to the male and female, the abortion subject would become a moot question.

    Such a simple solution to such a complex problem, don’t you think?

  84. Thor, Joe Scarborough’s simple analysis of this runs thusly and seems reasonable to me: When folks overreach, they get slapped back by the electorate. 2010 represented a reaction to Dem overreach. Yesterday’s results in Ohio and Miss represent a reaction to GOP overreach.

    Contrary to what our resident conservatives would have you believe, we have a down-the-center nation who don’t care much for extremists on either side. (This could actually be GOOD for Romney.)

  85. Yeah, forced sterilization is such a simple answer to a problem…..

    Why not just have Big Brother implant devices on newborns that prevent them from ever sexually maturing? Then after they pass a government test, they can get a license to procreate and the device can be removed.

  86. “Yesterday’s results in Ohio and Miss represent a reaction to GOP overreach. ”

    Rutherford, did you not read #96?

    Overall, the GOP won the day, yesterday. Your score keeping sucks balls.

    If we add up the results of all elections since 2010, Democrats have been utterly destroyed. State legislatures are flipping. Congressional districts are flipping. Recall attempts are being lost.

    To put it bluntly…you folks are getting your asses kicked. That you think 2 election wins on social issues is a big win for Democrats shows just how pathetic election days have been for your party the last 12 months.

  87. On Miss. If folks look harder and honestly this isn’t a defeat of conservatives. Ultimately the other initiatives that passed were more true conservative issues such as the voter ID requirement. I think the person-hood initiative actually owes its demise to a number of otherwise very red state types who saw a bad bill, I think the full election results bear that out.

    As for Ohio. Lets work out the “happy math” that the leftists are drumming on. 63% of the vote is going to allow 325k people keep their collective bargaining powers to the detriment of the average Ohioans wallet, yet that same 63% is the side that won? I don’t think so.
    Here is how Ohio should play this out. Via executive action absolutely ream every union employee with higher insurance and decreased bennies. Pass a very highly advertised tax increase on every single Ohioan along with dramatic service cuts across the state and say “Congrats 63%ers”
    Call me an ass but lets be real….to some degree this is exactly what is going to happen.

  88. but just can’t find the appropriate way to ask “how’s your butt these days?”

    Huck, LOL, on the flipside I debate every update on the fear of grossing you guys out.

    Thanks for thinking of me, just the same.

    Aside to Rabbit … I don’t know who manufactures Imodium but if you can find it out, buy up some shares dude. Looks like their sales are going to go up for the foreseeable future. 😐

  89. “Huck, LOL, on the flipside I debate every update on the fear of grossing you guys out. ”

    When I get grossed out I skip the rest of the comment. 😉

    The point is you keep your friends informed of your health and I think we all appreciate it as much as you appreciate our concern.

  90. Actually, I don’t think Raji’s suggestion is all that far fetched and a lot better than what we have now. Communist China, it is not. When you come back and tell me we will allow one female child per household, and after that forced abortion, then we can talk. Are we going to start taking into account personal responsibility again in this country, or not? If not, we can kiss our asses goodbye – sooner rather than later.

    The housing bubble may have been assisted by government meddling and banking greed. But the real culprit is people living way beyond their means and making poor decisions. Hopefully, the lesson has been learned.

    Rutherford, your last comment to me was so lame, it’s not even worth a retort. My suggestion was not hypocritical in the least and you know it. And we have no down the center country. At one time 40 years ago, it might have been that way with liberal legislation and judicial fiat. Since the days of Reagan, not anymore.

    Look at the subjects garnering serious consideration now:

    (1) Flat Tax
    (2) The country starting to lean more pro-life
    (3) Corporate Taxes being cut
    (4) Homeland Security
    (5) Illegal Immigration
    (6) Preemptive wars
    (7) Talk of cutting the EPA dramatically (not too soon)

    I grant some subjects considering our societal mores have moved left recently: gay marriage being the most obvious. And we will find out much too late, that too is based on deception and lies, and eventually when society decays further, people will begin to realize that homosexuality is indeed an illness that should be treated not with humiliation, but psychotherapy. But it is not and never will be an equal alternative to marriage.

    If you don’t believe Gods Laws, then you ought to at least acknowledge natural law. Like the evil of abortion, that can’t be more obvious.

  91. “Actually, I don’t think Raji’s suggestion is all that far fetched and a lot better than what we have now.”

    Are you kidding?

    Can you imagine the growth of government when a bureaucracy monitoring sex/reproduction is created?

  92. The movement is not the problem. The nutjobs gravitating to it are the problem. And you know that as well as I do.” – R

    That’s a PRETTY BIG assumption that these are the nutjobs and not the status quo of the movement. Thus far, this seems par for the course rather than out of bounds. That’s some golf lingo for the Golfer-in-Chief…

  93. I thought Raji was making a point, not a serious suggestion.

    Rutherford, glad it wasn’t worse. I hope it retreats.

    Imma try posting an embedded thing. Irrelevant to the discussion, mostly. But very, very nice. Reminds me of a female Leonard Cohen. Best with good sound — headphones or what-have-you.

    War Is Hell by Nicole Atkins

  94. Can you imagine the growth of government when a bureaucracy monitoring sex/reproduction is created?

    Give the money we give to Planned Parenthood to do the sterilizations. Sauce for the goose (or is it gander?) No, it’s not ideal…but what we got certainly isn’t working, and it certainly isn’t Communist China either.

    Bet you’d see a lot more vasectomies and tubal ligations. 😈 Maybe I should have become a urologist with a law degree?

    If I only had it to do over again, knowing what I know now… (sigh)

  95. One thing I’m considering is taking milk chocolate out of my diet. Damn, I’m gonna miss my Milanos. Oreos seem to cause less trouble. My wife surmises it might be the difference between cocoa and milk chocolate. Who knows? Time for some experimentation. Maybe I’ll start dropping acid? To quote my hero Blue Boy: “I am the chair, I am the chair.” 😎

  96. *administers Gibbs headslap to the back of Tex’s noggin*

    Yeah, that wasn’t one of my finer moments. 😆

    Conversing with Rutherford and Brick puts my mind in rough idle. I need to hit the accelerator.

  97. Rutherford,

    In all seriousness, keep a diary of everything you eat and drink each day for about a month. I wouldn’t change your diet quite yet. See if you can relate the cause to your diet over a month’s time. Your symptoms may have nothing to do with diet. If you’re capable of some light exercise, that’s a good suggestion too. Helps keep you regular. 😉

    Two suggestions: Make sure you’re getting enough sleep, and make sure you’re hydrated. I recommend getting something like Gatorade to drink (low calorie, no carbohydrates, ion based) to see if that doesn’t help. I know they recommend water, but I actually have found plain water can lead to nausea.

    Some of those sports drinks actually taste pretty good now.

  98. You and everyone else in this country, Puckered McSphincter.

    Well like I told Rabbit, time to buy some shares of McNeil Consumer Healthcare (makers of Imodium) assuming they’re traded on the market. 😉

  99. Yes, Muffy I was trying to make a point! Let’s not leave out the male in the abortion issue.

    Not to disagree with Tex, but Rutherford Gatorade is not so good for IBS, too much salt.
    A gastroenterologist recommended water with lemon juice to add acid to the stomach.

  100. Conversing with Rutherford and Brick puts my mind in rough idle.

    Your idle’s rough because you ain’t firing on all cylinders.

    I need to hit the accelerator.

    Ahhh, no. If you did you’d hit a wall. Who’s your driver?

  101. Your idle’s rough because you ain’t firing on all cylinders.

    If I’m firing on one cylinder out of eight, that’s one more than your vacuous mind produces Brick. Like a Pet Rock.

  102. Not to disagree with Tex, but Rutherford Gatorade is not so good for IBS, too much salt.

    A gastroenterologist recommended water with lemon juice to add acid to the stomach.

    Not that I would disagree with a G.I. expert, but I speak from experience of a personal nature. My father has suffered from IBS for years, and we have experimented over the course of 30 years with various drinks and foods.

    It’s been my father’s experience that something osmotic with the body, in this case Gatorade, actually brought quite a degree of relief to his symptoms – and what your G.I. recommended, something acidic, actually worsened the symptoms and increased the mucous buildup .

    The gastroenterologist for my father made much the same recommendation to my father, (lemon juice and plain water), and it actually worsened his symptoms. 😐

    So Rutherford – now you have two choices. Try them both and document which makes you feel better – since IBS is basically a declaration of they don’t know what is wrong, and not a disease but a syndrome, results may vary from person to person.

  103. If Obama would have done that we’d be laughing and giving Rutherford shit about it for a month.

    It’s time to thin the weak from the herd. Perry needs to go.

    Actually, Obama has done that numerous times in speeches (two I can think of). Maybe Perry does need to go Huck, but not for the reasons you’ve listed.

    You haven’t liked Perry from the start, and it was exclusively because he is an Evangelical Christian. I don’t consider your judgment reasoned or sound anymore – especially concerning matters of a personal nature of faith and find you as much a bigot toward Christianity as you find me toward Islam.

    And I continue to be less and less impressed with Mitt Romney. Newt Gingrich would be a better choice, if we are looking for the most qualified candidate.

    No matter – whoever is the candidate from that stage will have my vote – Romney with my nose clinched.

  104. “Actually, Obama has done that numerous times in speeches…”

    Yep. And years later we still bring up “57 states.”

    Even the idiot Obama would have ripped Perry to shreds tonight.

    If he can’t win, he may as well drop out.

    And it is obvious he can’t win. He can barely remember his own damn name.

  105. Does NBC stand for “No Blacks Channel?”

    LOL … all I can say about David Gregory gaffe is “ouch”.

    One thing that disappointed me about sister station MSNBC was giving its 6pm Eastern slot to Al Sharpton. When you consider that Michael Steele has recently become an MSNBC analyst, it would have made much more sense to give the time slot to him if they really wanted to insert a black onto the lineup.

  106. I like the Lindt 85% cocoa bars.

    Thanks BiW, I’ll look for those. I’ll also see if I can find choc chip cookies and the like made with dark choc instead of milk choc.

  107. Tex, yeah, I drank gatorade during my exam prep to keep hydrated. I’m VERY bad about drinking enough. I’d say I only average 36 ounces of liquid a day. That and the sleep (not enough).

    Hell … if the truth be told, I probably just don’t take good enough care of myself and then when you add the stress on top of that, it’s no wonder I’m a mess in the gut. With the sale of the house and the move, this past summer has been the most stress I’ve been under in years. Onset of severe IBS at this point a coincidence? I think not.

  108. Rick Perry is finished.

    I just finished watching the debate on TiVo. Perry may very well be the first Pres candidate for whom it is a good idea NOT to debate. The poor man just sucks at it. Shame is, he was doing decently until he forgot the third cabinet department he’d cut as President …. and then said “oops” once he gave up trying to remember it.

    It was also a revelatory moment to hear the audience boo Maria Bartiromo when she asked Cain about his sexual harassment problems. When Cain gave his answer, “the crowd goes wild”. I’m telling you, this motherf*cker invented Teflon!!!!

  109. I’m sure that is probably it Rutherford. IBS is most frequently associated with stress – a little stress is good; a long-time constitution of cortisol priming? A killer.

    In conjunction with getting older, it doesn’t surprise me. I truly was worried you were going to find something like Crohn’s as the problem. So from an outsider perspective, I consider this a “good” report – if IBS could be considered good. 🙂

    Tell you something simply that actually does work to relieve stress Rutherford. I never believed in myself until I tried it – and lowered my systole 10 points in the process with nothing but this.

    Normal respiration is 14-20 times a minute. Try deep breathing, holding your breathing to no more than 6-8 times per minute for about a series of 10 minutes.

    It works.

  110. This Penn State football/sex scandal simply blows my mind. If you would have given me the situation and then given the reaction of the coach, Joe Paterno is the last coach in the profession I would have guessed who would have ignored a sexual predator on his staff.

    Guess you really never do know.

    I predict Joe Paterno will die a quick death over this. This will utterly ruin his life – because football is all he knows.

  111. So Rutherford – now you have two choices.

    Yeah, while I very much appreciate Raji’s advice I’m skeptical about the lemon juice. I almost eliminated orange juice from my diet because I felt it worsened my symptoms and I blamed it (perhaps wrongly) on the acidity. And I LOVE a good glass of orange juice. I’ve really missed it. I’ll drink one from time to time if I’m having breakfast in a restaurant.

    What worries me about the Gatorade is I don’t feel I lose enough electrolytes through physical exertion to need all that stuff that comes in the Gatorade.

    My first step is introducing fiber via some sort of supplement. I find fiber a puzzlement in that it seems to relieve constipation as well as the runs. I’m just hoping it knows what to do with me when it gets down into my system. The last thing I need is something to speed up my digestion.

  112. I must say that the one thing this debate did was sour me on Jon Huntsman. I was already annoyed when I was reminded last Sunday that he introduced (in glowing terms) Sarah Palin at the 2008 GOP convention. But in this debate, he just didn’t seem to pack a punch at all. Supposedly the Wall Street Journal has endorsed his economic plan so I was expecting him to say something profound tonight. Nothing. 😦

  113. Like I have said Rutherford. From a likability factor, Cain and Perry are my two favorites. I find Bachmann and Santorum sanctimonious twits.

    Cain is quick witted, and Perry has the best ideas that I believe need to be implemented. Mitt Romney is actually last on my list of likable – even Ron Paul can be a lovable curmudgeon.

    But Alfie and I guess Huck (I’m not clear about his favorite as he always focuses on the negative) are probably right about the most important factor. If the goal is to get rid of Obama, and that is my goal, Romney is the best choice.

    As far as ‘Princess Nancy’, I think her time for the limelight and her arrogance is about to catch up with her. Sounds like 60 Minutes is getting ready to bust her lying and thieving botoxed ass, and deceitful familial business practices.

    At least, I hope. I can’t stand that thief.

    Ironic, isn’t it?

  114. Try deep breathing

    Well there of course, you’ve stumbled upon my other major weakness, chronic but mild hypoxia. I’ve even wondered if inadequate oxygen supply could be exacerbating the IBS.

    If I were a horse, they would have taken me out back and shot me by now. 😯

  115. From the Twitter feed I’ve been reading, the crowd reaction at Penn State is all the more disturbing. Rioting over Paterno’s sacking. Are folks so f*cking devoted to football that they turn a blind eye to child molestation? It’s worse than the Catholic church and I don’t say that as a dig.

  116. Raji could be right – for him. There is no right or wrong answer. And he is correct that sodium is a basic ingredient of Gatorade as its main purpose is to restore electrolytes. But your cells are also based on sodium, and that’s why I’m a bigger fan of sodium and potassium products than plain water – unless you’re salt sensitive. Gatorade is pretty low calorie. Fruit juices aren’t.

    That’s the problem with offering advice. What works wonders for one person, might be a poor choice for another. I’ve had doctors tell me the last thing you need to eat on a sick stomach is dairy products. But vanilla ice cream seems to soothe my stomach when I’ve had some stomach virus. 😐

    I actually nursed myself back to health a few years back after getting food poisoning with Braum’s Vanilla Ice Cream. 🙂 Peppermint and Vanilla Ice Cream. Probably didn’t do much for my waist line, but that was offset by hanging onto the toilet seat.

  117. Ah, I forgot about Rutherford and your breathing difficulty. Well, scratch that idea.

    Damn, we do need to take you out and shoot you, don’t we? You’ll have company. After working on my house all last week installing trim and quarter round (for the second fricking time as the polyurethane peeled off the wood floor (thank you EPA for forcing a change in formulation)), I’ve come up lame in the lower back – and my right knee is killing me.

    Didn’t help today either when I was forced to replace some boards on my shed after Mick decided to make a meal of it last week. 😡 It’s like a rite of passage for every dog I’ve owned. They chew up the shed, and then I have to threaten their life to not do it again.

    Then, I get to paint it. 😡 😡

  118. Are folks so f*cking devoted to football that they turn a blind eye to child molestation? It’s worse than the Catholic church and I don’t say that as a dig.

    The answer is yes, and it’s disturbing, isn’t it? I swore off even going to college football games anymore. Between the price, the discomfort, and the abhorrent behavior of adults, I told you it was my observation we were quickly becoming the revived Roman Empire. And one of those symptoms for Rome was glorification of athletics.

    You think I’m joking when I say before too long, we’ll have gladiators in the arena. I’m not.

  119. Tonight’s debate summary:
    Santorum: says he was on top of all these issues before anyone else. Funny that he is so forgettable. I still find him incredibly creepy.

    Bachmann: manages to hold her own in debate after debate. Monotone voice can cure insomnia.

    Gingrich: another chapter in “Newt hates the media”. Man, that’s getting old. But it was nice to see him b*tchslapped by Maria Bartiromo. LOL

    Cain: even though 9-9-9 is a punchline (it literally got laughs from the audience) you have to give this guy major points for chutzpah. Dude is under fire for personal ethics and he was up there like nothing was the least bit askew. He also had one of the best lines of the evening when he said that there were three things wrong with Dodd-Frank. First it let Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac off the hook and the other two things: Dodd and Frank. 😆

    Romney: dude is still the most presidential looking up there. He is excellent with prepared answers. Gets a bit flustered when hit by followup questions.

    Perry: simply a lousy debater. Not sure I agree with Huck that he needs to drop out but he needs to stop debating. It’s not his thang.

    Paul: Ron sometimes sounds like the crazy rambling old man but I still think he knows better what is wrong with this country than anyone else on the stage. As I’ve said before, as POTUS he will be powerless to change anything. Too many conflicting interests will stop him.

    Huntsman: A surprisingly weak performance. It isn’t enough for him to say that solutions will be complicated, He needs to spell out exactly what he would do. I didn’t hear that tonight. While some may give him points for accusing Romney of pandering on the subject of China, he gave no concrete alternative to Romney’s idea (which was tariffs).

    With this bunch of nominees, 2012 will really be an election about “anyone-but-Obama”. If we get new pres next November, it will be because Obama lost, not because any of these yahoos won.

  120. Tex, I’ve read peppermint (specifically peppermint oil) might be good as it supposedly does something beneficial for the intestinal tract. Maybe that’s why peppermint ice cream worked for you?

    The good news is now that I know what is wrong I can proceed with a plan of action, even if it is trial and error.

  121. Can you tell I feel asleep tonight in my rocker? I’m now wide awake…

    Pisses me off at myself when I do stupid crap like that, because if I sleep more than 30 minutes or so, my body thinks dawn has arrived. That is one of the huge drawbacks of living by yourself and getting old. My wife used to wake me up and drag me to bed. It’s her fault. 😡

    Between my dog(s) and my wife or lack of one, I see a bad ending for me. I’ll probably die of a heart attack with the TV blaring FOX News – and they’ll find a stinking corpse several days later with Bill O’Reilly bellowing on the set with the remote, and pistachio shells resting on my chest, waiting to be thrown in the trash can.

  122. I see a bad ending for me.

    LOL … as you probably remember, I sleep with a ventilator at night and if I cough or interrupt the air flow for any reason, the damn thing beeps. Now this of course is supposed to be a warning. LOL … my wife is so used to it going off that she sleeps right through it. I’m sure one morning she’ll wake up next to my cold corpse with the damn machine in full beep mode. Thank goodness I’m not really dependent on it to breathe.

    P.S. I can see that my new Illinois doctors are starting to reevaluate some of the medical choices I made back in CT. My new ENT last week seemed dumbfounded that I chose to keep a trach when I have a perfectly functional airway. Once I talk to a local pulmonologist, I may make some changes next year.

  123. LOL … all I can say about David Gregory gaffe is “ouch”.” – R

    I just don’t get you R. If even a remote inkling of what MSDNC has been saying about Cain had been said about Obama by Fox, you would have shit kittens by now. Honestly, you’d probably be in the hospital because you would have blown about 5 different valves, yet here your response is ‘ouch’?

    What about this Toure guy and his ‘predatory black sexuality’. WTF? That helps you right now? That improves race relations? Really, we need to push that meme?

    You need to admit this when it comes to race: Dems are racist. Period. Whenever a minority conservative comes forward, it is liberals and dems who attack them on race. Repeatedly. It was the Dems who instituted Jim Crow laws, it was Dems who created and populated the KKK, and it has been Dems who have worked hard to keep minorities down and on the tit, where they ‘belong’ and can be controlled. Don’t believe me? Drive through your local heavy Dem/mostly minority areas and tell me how ‘better off’ they are.

  124. “If I were a horse, they would have taken me out back and shot me by now.”

    Nope, modern veterinarian medicine would have fixed you since many drugs and procedures used don’t have to go through the human approval procedure for the FDA 😉

    “My new ENT last week seemed dumbfounded that I chose to keep a trach when I have a perfectly functional airway. Once I talk to a local pulmonologist, I may make some changes next year.”

    Interesting Rutherford. Maybe you should ask your new ENT about too much air intake through a trach plus irritation could lead to IBS. Just a thought from the “bitty medical society” who thinks the human body is related not just a bag of jigsaw puzzle pieces.

  125. Oh hey. I am watching Sharpton on MSNBC. i think he’s a dem.

    Oh look someone that’s on MSNBC is calling Cain an Uncle Tom.

    Hey. Rutherford says a black man that’s conservative is too stooooopid to “vote for his own interests.”

  126. “One thing I’m considering is taking milk chocolate out of my diet. Damn, I’m gonna miss my Milanos. Oreos seem to cause less trouble. My wife surmises it might be the difference between cocoa and milk chocolate.”

    Double entendres too numerous to count — Freudian?

  127. It has been said, “don’t buy a pig in a poke” because you might not be getting what you are bargaining for. This led to “letting the cat out of the bag”, literally exposing the deception of trying to pass off pussy as pork.

    My brain often does a lot of free association and often I explore new avenues of interpretation for many things considered traditional dogma in our culture.

    Like this occupy movement. You can be on the wrong side of history.

  128. One of the things that always bothered and continues to bother me about most blacks in general, is they apparently don’t notice every time a Conservative black steps into the limelight of politics, they are soon followed by charges of sexual predation or sexual peccadilloes. And it is generally blacks making some of the most egregious charges – many time accompanied by some air head buxom/platinum blonde, with questionable history, they tried to grope or worse.

    Which, of course, is the very stereotype black men have fought to overcome. I am finding it very hard to believe every black Conservative male is a gigolo or letch in waiting.

    In fairness to Rutherford, I think he’s been quite fair in giving Cain the benefit of the doubt this time.

    I got to thinking the other day – how does a male defend those kind of charges when false? And I know damn well there are a load of women that use these kinds of charges falsely. It happened to a friend of mine in the work place from some nut bag with a sordid history, who he made the mistake of having a little tryst one night. The nut accused him of rape when he was no longer interested in a relationship. I know she was a liar, because she pulled the same crap on me of accusing me of “keying her car” when I rejected her advances as a single man. I didn’t even know what she drove and had never so much as laid a finger on her.

    How does a male get his reputation back with false accusations from a female?

    Another double standard that pisses me off.

  129. Interesting Rutherford. Maybe you should ask your new ENT about too much air intake through a trach plus irritation could lead to IBS. Just a thought from the “bitty medical society” who thinks the human body is related not just a bag of jigsaw puzzle pieces.

    Legitimate point Raji.

    I actually read someplace about air intake and related G.I. problems – how COPDs are commonly accompanied with G.I. problems. I’ll see if I can find that article I read. It was a few years back…

  130. I agree R has been fair to Cain, but I still can’t fathom wny the reaction from the left hasn’t elicited a stronger response.

  131. I don’t think the left is as cohesive a bloc as the right.

    The right bands together against the common “evil de jour” as soon as the message is distributed almost instantaneously via countless tributaries.

    As if on cue, they recognize wrong from right. They also consider everything outside their camp as left, whereas the left views everything in greyer tones.

  132. I don’t think the left is as cohesive a bloc as the right.
    That is because the Left in America is more focused on single issues,even when they are into bigger issues like SCOTUS it is still for individual agenda items.

    The right bands together against the common “evil de jour” as soon as the message is distributed almost instantaneously via countless tributaries.
    I disagree to the point that this is way too oversimplified.

    As if on cue, they recognize wrong from right. They also consider everything outside their camp as left, whereas the left views everything in greyer tones.
    Like it or not. Good or bad. The Right is superior in actually making a decision and being committed to something. Sometimes over analyzing stuff and exerting energy just to stay balanced atop the fence is a waste.

  133. Like it or not. Good or bad. The Right is superior in actually making a decision and being committed to something. Sometimes over analyzing stuff and exerting energy just to stay balanced atop the fence is a waste.

    Agreed. They just want to run with the ball. In that way they are really progressive rather than conservative.

  134. I hesitate to say this but I think it shows poor judgment on both their parts to be alone in a cab in the first place.

  135. I disagree to the point that this is way too oversimplified.

    Test it for yourself. Google any right wing talking point or first paragraph from any site where they get their news and look at the results. I think the numbers speak volumes.

  136. “Maybe I’ll start dropping acid? To quote my hero Blue Boy: “I am the chair, I am the chair.”” – R

    Perhaps “I am the stool, I am the stool,” would be more appropriate. 🙂 Seriously, glad to hear the news was good, if not completely what you hoped for. (But that’s how prayer quite often works. Just something to mull over.)

  137. “Test it for yourself. Google any right wing talking point or first paragraph from any site where they get their news and look at the results. I think the numbers speak volumes.”

    Like this?
    About 218,000,000 results

    And this?
    About 3,060,000 results

    And this?
    About 165,000,000 results

    You’re right. The number do speak volumes.

  138. “BTW, this scenario could play out again in early 2012 in Wisconsin. The effort to recall Walker is already underway.”

    Yeah, because their other recall efforts went so well.- Huck

    None of the Dems that left the state to stall the legislation were recalled. Two of the Republican’ts that voted for the budget were kicked out of office. Even if they didn’t flip the majority, it was a victory for the Dems, not the R’s.

  139. “Two of the Republican’ts that voted for the budget were kicked out of office. Even if they didn’t flip the majority, it was a victory for the Dems, not the R’s.”

    What is it with democrats and scorekeeping?

    First Rutherford thinks 2 wins and 3 losses is a victory and now we have one who thinks recalling 2 of 6 republicans is a victory.

    This isn’t golf, folks…..

  140. “None of the Dems that left the state to stall the legislation were recalled.”

    That is meaningless in this discussion. We are talking about the recall efforts of democrats against republicans.

  141. What about this Toure guy and his ‘predatory black sexuality’.

    Well let’s hit this from two different angles. I don’t know in what context Toure made the quote you just quoted but in defense of Cain, I have wondered why of all the skeletons to pull out of Cain’s closet, they (Politico) go after the sexual predator. Whether you like it or not G, the black man portrayed as sexual predator is a stereotype in this society. It haunted Clarence Thomas just as it is being used (perhaps) against Cain. So I don’t know whether Toure made his comment in defense of Cain or not. But when I first read the Politico piece, one of the first things I thought was “ok, here we go again with the horny black man”.

    Another word on Toure. I’ve got REAL mixed feelings about the dude. He’s got a new book out on “post-blackness” which he’s been hawking on talk shows. I’ve been watching him discuss the book on CSPAN and it seems to me he wants to have his cake and eat it too. His basic premise is “there are many ways to be black” but then he doesn’t want to let go of the identification of “black man”.

    The reason there are many ways to be black is because being “black” is meaningless. The ONLY thing that blacks have in common is knowledge of past discrimination and paranoia about present and future discrimination. That’s it. Everything else is a side show. Being black doesn’t mean loving rap music or chitlins. Being black doesn’t mean liking Mozart. Being HUMAN means liking rap, chitlins and Mozart. Being black means nothing. Toure comes soooooo close to this realization but then stops short of it.

    Some of what he says rings true to me. Some seems like rank foolishness.

  142. Maybe you should ask your new ENT about too much air intake through a trach plus irritation could lead to IBS.

    Actually Raji you’ve come close to a theory of mine. I keep the trach capped during the day so I breathe through my nose and mouth during the day. I am, however, on a ventilator at night where I breathe through the trach and I have wondered if there is some relation between the vent, perhaps some swallowing air during the night, and my more severe IBS issues in the morning.

    Fundamentally, I agree with you about the body. It’s an interdependent system.

  143. What is it with democrats and scorekeeping?

    It’s their religion Huck. Progressive politic is their messiah, and Obama is their archangel. I’m not kidding. This Thor fellow must follow every poll number, every scorecard. He’s smitten with it.

    Anybody with half a brain knows America is weaker now than it has been in 70+ years – probably much weaker than even the Depression era, for no other reason than we now have much stiffer competition.

    I’m still reminded about this time three years ago, poll numbers said Rudy G. was going to be Republican nominee and Hillary was well out in front for the Dims, probably on her way to President of the U.S. ** shudder **

    About the only polls that ever really matter are those presidential polls 2-3 weeks out from an election. What boggles my mind is somewhere out there in the hinderland, 1 in 3 dumbasses Americans give Obama a good score on the economy. 🙄

    How deluded can an individual get before we simply right those types off as hopeless? I guess they really do follow the DOW as indicator of a healthy economy, forgetting the DOW lost 60% of its value three years ago in a less than fifteen months.

    Like that can’t happen again?

  144. So interdependent Rutherford that you’ve heard them talk about the nervous system is divided into two main systems, the central nervous system (CNS) and the peripheral nervous system?

    Well, the new theory is that it actually needs to be divided into three main parts – (1) Central, (2) Peripheral, (3) and **drum roll**, Enteric.

    Check out the complexity:

    http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/digestion/basics/gi_nervous.html

    My point is, I think you and Raji may be on to something, especially if you’re having problems with gas and bloating.

  145. How does a male get his reputation back with false accusations from a female?

    Normally I wouldn’t jump on the “it’s tough to be a male” bus but Tex hit it out of the park this time.

    Last Sunday on Meet the Press, former New Mexico Governor and Pres wannabe Bill Richardson said “We have to protect women in the workplace” and the first thing that popped into my head was “what a f*cking condescending statement. Why exactly do we (in some blanket sort of way) have to protect women in the workplace?”

    I brought this up on my “radio” show and of course Sandi didn’t agree. Well you know what, as I said Sunday night on the show, either “you’ve come a long way baby” or you haven’t. This BS of women being totally vulnerable 100% of the time on the job is just that … BS. Some folks on the job are jerks. You learn to deal with them. So long as they don’t corner you against a wall and try to rape you …. or don’t outright say “blow job or no job”, then DEAL with it. It’s part of being a big boy (or girl) in corporate America.

    Sandi said “these sexual harassment complaints only occur between women and their superiors.” Ehhhhh no. I worked for 24 years in corp America and when the whole “hostile work environment” meme started to become popular, ANY man was vulnerable to a complaint by a female co-worker. Superior-subordinate relationship was not a prereq to getting a complaint lodged.

    So to make a long story short, Tex is right. Once a woman in the work place causes doubt to be shed on a male co-worker it’s damn hard to get things straight again. The only hope is to prove the woman a crackpot. This is why the Cain campaign is doing just that …. trying to discredit the accusers.

    P.S. Unfortunately Clinton’s campaign did the same thing. 😉

  146. I hesitate to say this but I think it shows poor judgment on both their parts to be alone in a cab in the first place.

    Muffy you are channeling my dearly departed mother. That is EXACTLY what she would say, “what are you doing alone in a car with a married man?”

    A quick anecdote … I was at an educational retreat while working in corporate America. A woman (who basically was superior to me) had injured her foot and asked me if the following day I could drive her from the dormitory area to the conference center. That night I discussed it with my wife. The next day I told her “let me know if you need a lift. My wife gave me the ok.” or something like that. I wanted her to know ONE that I was married and TWO that my wife was aware of what was going on no matter how innocent. (Normally, my rule was to NEVER give women a lift anywhere … I only bent on this one because of her injury.)

    As a post-script, about a year later the woman in question unfairly accused me of slacking and basically ended my career. Go figure. 😐

  147. As a post-script, about a year later the woman in question unfairly accused me of slacking and basically ended my career. Go figure.

    May she rot in hell. Women like that are the bane of corporate America. 😡

    It was actually a gal that was the spitting image of Aretha Franklin that got me sideways with corporate America too Rutherford. She had put several of the women from my company being merged in tears with her bullying and had a real attitude problem, not to mention she had the intellectual capability of Brickman. The men were scared to death of this behemoth.

    She (Sharon) pulled that shit with me and my staff one day in a meeting in Denver which we had been invited to, lashing out at us, and I gruffly said, “You’re nothing but a dimwitted playground bully and we’re not intimidated like everybody else. Rat to who you want, but you’re through with the intimidation act.” You could have heard a pin drop.

    Sharon Aretha ran to the Executive V.P. as this during a merger, and he was a major league prick too, about my age and appointed through nepotism and cronyism amongst the engineers. I read he’s now 2nd in command. The prick proceeded to berate me about “my lack” of cooperation, though we had busted our ass for six months 60-70 hours a week to make this merger work without so much as a thank you. I laughed, pointed at Aretha and said, “She’s your idea of a team player? R E S P E C T” I sang out. He told me one more comment like that, and he would have me fired. I then told him he wasn’t going to bully us either, and he can kiss my ass. Really. “Kiss my ass.”

    The phony bastard then wanted to shake my hand before we left on the corporate jet. I rolled my eyes and walked off. The end was near.

    They let me get away with that one for a short time because they needed me, but I had enough of the bullshit. I pushed them to the limit to fire me for a few weeks, even called my newly appointed boss useless, or something to that accord, as he was now taking my job. This political hack was best friends with the CFO and couldn’t add a comment to a line of code. Told him that too, as being terminated was the only way I could think of getting to cash in my stock options. I wasn’t going to take a demotion simply because of some merger. It worked.

    They walked me out there like a criminal, told me no stock options, and I said, “See you mofos in court – that came from my old company, not you.” They backed down after an exchange of emails made it crystal clear I would do what I needed to do, no matter the consequences. They knew I wasn’t kidding about it either. 🙂

    Do you know those sons a bitches hired three new people immediately after that? I couldn’t even get them to hire one person to help during this massive merger. Cowards. Gutless cowards.

    After that, I never thought the same of corporations again and knew they weren’t for me. I would rather starve to death that have to answer to that crap. So that is how I came to become a R.L. standing member. Bet you wished they had never fired me, hey “R”? 🙂

  148. Tex, you know it’s funny … with 20/20 hindsight I wonder if certain actions make sense. The woman in question called me on the phone one night and told me my services on her project would no longer be needed and that she would be giving a poor performance evaluation to my boss. I said everything I could short of calling her a lying beeeyatch. My heart rate went through the roof. At one point I finally said something along the lines of “we need to stop talking right now because I don’t want to say something I’ll regret.”

    My boss was spineless and told me that I needed to keep him better in the loop and that he was now unable to defend me. But think about this …. if I had just swallowed my pride and said to the woman “I’m really sorry you’re so disappointed. I had no idea you felt this way. What can I do to correct things?” I might still have my six figure job today. But I couldn’t get past this incompetent boob telling me I wasn’t cutting it.

    So here I am down sized, picking up an assignment here and there where I can find it and she still works for the my old company. (Right before I got laid off, she did have some career misfortune which greatly gladdened my spirits but alas by then it was too late … she had already poisoned the well. Subsequently her career kicked back in.)

    So you tell me. Who was the winner in that exchange? I have “being right” and she has a steady income. 😐

  149. Multiply those scenes you and Tex experienced across the corporate board. Had you gone the other way, you could have kissed ass up the corporate ladder of “success”.

    No telling how wealthy you could have been by now, maybe even politico rich. That’s a key to “success” today. It generally starts with a compromise in ethics.

  150. It generally starts with a compromise in ethics.

    Never believed that in my younger days. You may have hit on the one factor that undid me … I actually thought being right was worth something.

    Despite it all, I still believe karma is a b*tch. A different fate awaits her than awaits me. Of that I’m sure. I may never get the satisfaction of finding out but it will happen nevertheless. 😎

  151. Multiply those scenes you and Tex experienced across the corporate board. Had you gone the other way, you could have kissed ass up the corporate ladder of “success”.

    Very true. And that is the way it works. Had I just cheer leaded, I would probably been Director by now, perhaps even sitting at some of the board meetings. Had I been willing to crap on my employees, Joe and I would have been good “buds”, and had I stepped on enough toes and kissed enough ass, I could have been executive.

    And the worst part? One of the employees I hired, even got him his job and a promotion and he would always come to me with all his problems, whom I always defended at my personal expense, is the one they used as ammunition about being a team player. The little bastard called Denver one day because I told him he needed to get his act together and quit missing work. Never said a word to anybody but him. Two weeks after I was gone, I never heard from a damn one of “my friends” again. What a fool. The guy who stabbed me is the “model Christian” too. Bible to work, prays before meals, etc…So if you, or Huck, or even Rutherford thinks because somebody says they are a “Christian” they score big points in my book, think again. I know better.

    And I figure, and this is no lie because of what has happened with the company stock, we are now pushing towards the $2,000,000 dollar figure – salary, bonus and options, which I would have kept had I not been forced sell the options within 90 days – all gone to the wind.

    So, I left with my reputation intact with people who do not matter and probably didn’t care, and an expensive degree which got me one year of medical school before I got sick of it.

    But…

    My marriage is better, with my wife being transferred it allowed for my children to remain in their high school while I went to school part time and both are doing beautifully, and I haven’t missed for a second walking into a job I hated day after day. I do as I damn well please for the last nine years. I’m much poorer for it, could have easily retired by now comfortably, but I try not to look back and dwell what could have been. It no doubt changed me and made me incredibly cynical, but a whole lot smarter about the way the world really is and people are.

    In the end, all that money will not buy another minute, I learned a valuable lesson about the frailties of people as I’m no longer naive. But I will say the downside is that I’m no longer as trusting either – perhaps my wife and a few close friends. That’s it.

  152. Rutherford, you got a dirtier deal than I did. I got screwed because of circumstance and took it too personal. I had made and hired that entire department, it was our stuff that was used in the merger, we had done some great things, and I was taken care of monetarily – the issue was personal to me. At first, they were begging me to stay and throwing money at me because they knew I was going to be pissed – but I couldn’t get past the screwing and the cronyism. It was the last straw, but everything that happened was my doing and at the end, deserved.

    But I fully admit I could have just shut my mouth and floated down stream like Poolman said. I never was good corporate material and had no business working for some mealy-mouthed bohunk, because I don’t have the patience or the sense to keep my mouth shut. There’s no doubt I have a streak of anti-establishment, anti-authority that runs thru my veins, and like John Mellencamp said, “I fight authority, authority always wins.”

    You on the the other hand, had a classless and gutless bitch for a boss. I don’t need to know anymore than somebody that works for a company for 24 years deserves the courtesy of a face-to-face if they are going to lose their job. I thought my company was gutless – at least the coward that fired me had the guts to come into my office with two H.R. personnel, including the Exec V.P of HR and security. I looked at them before they said a word, because I knew what was coming and said, “You must think I’m a real dangerous man.” 😈

  153. The only time I was ever fired in my life was in 2005 when my “business partner” of eight years had a cop come in and watch me. I had given notice and was allowing a smooth transition, having just briefed him and my replacement of all the projects in construction. When the meeting was over he had a cop there to make sure I left without taking any company property.

    I had to call my wife to pick me up and unloaded the company truck of all my tools and stuff, plus pack up my office and turn in my laptop. It was a shocker. But the last year was rather strained.

    He went out of business a year later in 2006, the busiest year our industry has ever had. It takes a certain spin to keep things afloat. 😉

  154. I don’t think you’ve lived unless you haven’t been fired at least once. 🙂

    I actually have been fired twice – once as a teenager working in an automotive garage. This customer brought in a cherry mustang, and didn’t think I was adding enough grease in the zerts as he stared over my shoulder. Then he would force me to grab a clean rag on every zert and wipe the top of the frame with degreaser. The man was perhaps the most overbearing person I’ve ever met. It was ridiculous.

    Finally, after about 15 minutes of him chewing on me, I handed him the grease gun and said, “Here, you do it then.”

    Guess that wasn’t the appropriate response.

    The guys that owned this garage were the biggest ripoff artists I’ve ever witnessed. These women with little money would bring in their cars for alignment. The mechanics would drive the car around the block, do nothing, and charge them $40.00 for it – and this was 1976.

    I got on their bad side when I complained to the boss about a lady brought in a Pinto because she had hit the curb. The mechanic drove it around the block, and did nothing while charging her for it.

    My first experience as whistle blower. And my last. The state closed the garage down about a year later, so I guess Rutherford’s karma worked.

    They should have gone to prison as far as I was concerned. I ran into the owner years later – he was a car salesman. 😆 How the mighty had fallen.

    I wanted to walk up to him and say, “Hey thief, remember me?”

  155. This was a pretty good piece. The cops today are set up much differently than the last time they faced public unrest. This explores some of that.

    Ever since September 14, 2001, when President Bush declared war on terrorism, there has been a crucial, yet often unrecognized, shift in United States policy. Before 9/11, law enforcement possessed the primary responsibility for combating terrorism in the United States. Today, the military is at the tip of the anti-terrorism spear. This shift appears to be permanent: in 2006, the White House’s National Strategy for Combating Terrorism confidently announced that the United States had “broken old orthodoxies that once confined our counterterrorism efforts primarily to the criminal justice domain.”

    http://www.readersupportednews.org/news-section2/316-20/8317-focus-how-the-war-on-terror-militarized-the-police

  156. This Penn State thing makes me hate mankind.

    Jo-Pa’s legacy should involve piano wire.

    He is a cowardly, sick fuck. As are the rest of them.

    The entire campus can rot in hell.

    I can’t even watch sports, right now.

    The whole thing is giving me a bout of depression.

    Is this society even worth saving?

  157. Oh I left two final details out of my corporate saga which further illustrate the absurdity of it. After being told I was a screw-up on the project, I was then immediately assigned to do essentially the same job on essentially the same project in Canada. So what was that, some attempt to sabotage Canada? (By the way, I got rave reviews from my Canadian colleagues for doing the same work I was told was crappy in the US. Fortunately I had the good sense to have those reviews documented so things couldn’t be twisted after the fact.)

    Last but not least, between the time I was informed I would be laid off and my actual last day on the job, I got …. wait for it …. a raise. 😕 I sh*t you not.

  158. You on the the other hand, had a classless and gutless bitch for a boss. I don’t need to know anymore than somebody that works for a company for 24 years deserves the courtesy of a face-to-face if they are going to lose their job.

    Some corrections are in order. The dragon lady was never my boss per se. Just a superior with influence. I was laid off two assignments after working under her and in fact was told that my prior history with her had nothing to do with my selection for layoff (yeah right). And, the guy who was my boss during the layoff also laid off a couple of other people over the phone so I wasn’t singled out for that indignity.

    But you’re right … it was gutless. The mofo actually READ my layoff to me so he wouldn’t make any mistakes that could get him in trouble with legal. I could tell by his tone and the meter of his speech that he was reading. Sure enough, when I received my “package” the cover letter said verbatim what he had said to me “spontaneously” over the phone.

    Tex, it was like a f*cking divorce because there was a time when I truly loved that company. I defended it against the cynics who came on board in the early 90’s. But the cynics were right and I was wrong. One of them became my best friend and to this day I tell him “yup you were right and my head was in the clouds.”

  159. Rabbit, I’m no football fan but this Penn State thing has me in a stew also. Fortunately I only heard the name Joe Paterno occasionally over the years but knew nothing about him so there was no hero worship there, no big let down. From the little I’ve seen of him this week, he’s a twerp.

  160. Since it’s after midnight here and on the East coast, let me say a Happy Veterans Day to:

    Gorilla
    Rabbit and
    Alfie

    If I’ve left any of the regulars out, I apologize but I think I’ve got everyone who I know served.

    I know many of you think I’m a dirty pinko communist ( 🙂 ) but I really do appreciate your sacrifice. You’ve been in situations that would have made me piss my pants within two seconds. While I think some of your politics sucks, I also know I can sleep easier at night because you guys were or are currently watching out for my ass.

    Thanks again!

  161. I second Rutherford’s comments. Tip of the cap to our Vets. Thanks guys. Mine was the first flag up this morning, and I am going to try to attend a Veteran parade today.

    Unfortunately, the old man is having surgery and I’ve got to hang loose to get him home. We will see.

  162. Very smart man here. Interesting ten minute interview about the election next year. And now that I sailed past 50, I find myself yearning for the days of Conservative Democrat. My wife is one, but they don’t really exist anymore in a political vote. They’re now called Republicans. 🙂

    Worth listening to. I have VDH about as smart as journalists come these days – even exceeding Krauthammer.

  163. You sound like Jimmy, rabbit. A neighbor of ours, big guy, former Northwestern defensive something-or-other. Talks college football all the time.

    He so wants to do something about it. I have to watch what I say about it around him. He’s depressed as hell and angry enough to tackle a bison.

    Sandusky’s shut down now. Years and lives too late, but he won’t hurt any more little boys. The best thing that could happen now is that next time it doesn’t go on like this.

  164. Anyone man with a conscience wants to “do something” about Sundusky. The image of where and how this occurred evokes a certain rage in me — for reasons that I can’t quite articulate.

  165. I figured, Tigre.

    I’ve had to put some effort myself into unseating the incomprehensible mental images with different ones no less topical, but far less jagged. I mean, the sad truth really pains the mind on this one.

    So I’m picturing those honchos in a room full of trophies sitting around the gleaming conference table deciding that the appropriate response would be to tell the pedophile to stop bringing kids from his charity to the football building.

    *deep breath*

  166. It is a sick world we live in. Unfortunately, the incidents that go unreported and unnoticed far exceed the ones we hear about. Don’t expect people in general to be any better that this. It goes on WAY more than not, in all circles of life. The upper crust have many more psychopaths than normal folks. 😐

  167. What bothers me about this Sandusky creep is not just the fact that’s he is a pedophile and predator and the obvious scars left on boys, but the act of being so brazen to do it in a public shower of the Penn State football building? Are you kidding me? A kid doesn’t even have to be tricked into a home anymore to be fondled?

    I have sat here wondering what I would do if I saw some man fondling young boys in a public shower. I’d be scared to take pictures for proof, because knowing my luck, I’d be accused of child porn, or something.

    It took two years of investigation before they even busted the guy. In two years, the man can do a lot of damage. Vigilantism may not be such a bad thing.

  168. The video in 231 was good. I agree with everything except when he stated the antiwar movement died in January 2009. I admit it suffered a great blow, most claiming a victory believing Obama was going to end the wars like he promised.

    When it was soon evident he wouldn’t or couldn’t, the movement had to regroup. It is alive and growing, choosing to function differently than before. Now it is operating more underground and is less about public marches. Much of the movement is participating with the OWS people right now, as they have many common goals.

  169. Poolman, what you witnessed in January 2009 is the typical double standards applied by leftists like the media. There has been little outrage over Obama continuing with the Bush Doctrine, and no apology. Obama got a dose of world reality, and the Left is more than happy to give Obama a pass.

    If the Left is nothing taken as a collective, it is as phony as a three dollar bill and the world’s biggest hypocrites – and the lame stream media is complicit as always.

  170. Provided as example of the left’s duplicity, I have included Michael Al-Moore’s vacation property as evidence. Why isn’t OWS protesting Mr. Fahrenheit, I wonder?

    I recognize there are certain individuals from the Left like Rutherford that even get nauseous or nervous over Michael Moore’s lies and deceit, but they are far and few between.

    http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/abreitbart/2011/11/10/exclusive-photos-michael-moores-massive-michigan-vacation-mansion-beyond-99-percents-wildest-dreams/

  171. VDH is a registered Democrat???? Well slap me in the ass and call me Charlie. Of course he’s re-registering as an independent. At least he is bright enough not to be a Republican. 😉

  172. If they were all like VDH, I might be a registered Democrat. 😉 Instead, most are like Jesse Jackson, Larry Flynt and Joyless Behar.

    I’ve really never understand the logic behind being registered Independent, unless you loathe both parties equally. I always wanted to have some say in the primaries about the candidates

    I know that Tulsa just voted to have completely non partisan city council members, so I guess this non partisan stuff (cough cough) is the wave of the future.

    If so, I guess I’m an independent too… (cough cough). To be absolutely honest, I have no love for a large contingent of the Republican party either – but I do like most of the Tea Party’s ideas.

  173. Tex, speaking of Krauthammer, he gives a warning to Republicans. Will they heed it? Probably not.

    Contrary to the condescending conventional wisdom, the American electorate is no angry herd, prepared to stampede on the command of today’s most demagogic populist. Mississippi provided an exemplary case of popular sophistication — it defeated a state constitutional amendment declaring that personhood begins at fertilization. Voters were concerned about the measure’s ambiguity (which would grossly empower unelected judges) and its myriad unintended consequences (regarding, for example, infertility treatment and life-threatening ectopic pregnancies). Remarkably, this rejection was carried out by an electorate decidedly pro-life.

    And smart. So too across the nation, as we saw Tuesday. This is no disoriented, easily led citizenry. On the contrary. It is thoughtful and discriminating. For Republicans, this means there is no coasting to victory, 9 percent unemployment or not. They need substance. They need an articulate candidate with an agenda and command of the issues who is light on slogans and lighter still on baggage.The 2011 elections: A split decision

  174. “I’ve really never understand the logic behind being registered Independent, unless you loathe both parties equally.”

    I did it so I can get hired as a teacher when the time comes. It’s a shame, but I was warned its the reality I am entering.

  175. A kid doesn’t even have to be tricked into a home anymore to be fondled?

    Let’s be real clear. The boy wasn’t fondled. He was raped. Not meant as a smack at you Tex … just want our verbiage to be very real.

    I’m on a fence about devoting a blog post to this topic only because I know so little about college sports (or sports in general) but I do have some thoughts I wouldn’t mind sharing.

  176. Obama got a dose of world reality, and the Left is more than happy to give Obama a pass.

    I don’t think Tex is far off on this one. The left has been disgustingly silent about the wars, Afghanistan in particular where our boys and girls are coming back in body bags for no damn good reason.

    It’s one reason why partisan politics has me a bit discouraged right now.

  177. Regarding Michael Moore’s spread, it reminds me of an old Carlin bit where he tells the audience that the government is screwing “us” up the ass. And I’m thinking, what’s this “us” crap? George was quite comfy right up until the day he died.

    I don’t mind empathy but don’t pretend you’re “one of us” when you ain’t.

  178. I hadn’t heard the word “rape” mentioned. Not that I doubt you Charlie.

    Huck, that’s a shame. In your case, I understand. The one thing that used to really irritate me about old Hippie Professor and one that I called him on numerous times with numerous examples, is that Jim wouldn’t readily admit to a political bias in higher education – a complete joke. Sometimes he would fudge, but never an admittance.

  179. I did it so I can get hired as a teacher when the time comes. It’s a shame, but I was warned its the reality I am entering.

    Not just a shame … disgusting and unAmerican. 😦

  180. “Let’s be real clear. The boy wasn’t fondled. He was raped.”

    There were many boys over a period of at least 15 years. 1 alleged victim I heard in a recent interview reported fondling. I have read news articles of other acts that were much…much worse.

    The monster inside the human mind doesn’t shock me much anymore. What does shock me is the overwhelming public outcry defending those who turned a blind eye to all of this. People are rioting over it, for Pete’s sake.

    And we like to think our society is more advanced than “the other.”

    Show me….

  181. That “event” at Penn State the other night, where they rioted over the football coach being fired for negligence not reporting a hideous crime, convinced me that this supposed better, smarter generation of new kids and their new tolerance is anything but.

    What a pathetic commentary on the state of things…massive vandalism over a firing of a football coach. 🙄

  182. I wondered about your wording, Tex. But I understand now.

    The grand jury testimony is that McCreary heard, investigated, and then saw rape. The NY Times article “Personal Foul at Penn State” a few days ago makes it hauntingly and unmistakably clear.

    The gathering in support of the coach make it even worse, if that’s possible.

  183. “The monster inside the human mind doesn’t shock me much anymore. What does shock me is the overwhelming public outcry defending those who turned a blind eye to all of this.” -Huck

    Yeah, this.

    I probably shouldn’t have been so crystal in that last post of mine. Ugh. Sorry.

  184. “…Jim wouldn’t readily admit to a political bias in higher education…”

    wwwwwWWWWhat?

    Just this quarter I’ve heard two very unflattering and gratuitous slaps at “right wing conservatives” in lectures on topics having nothing whatsoever to do with politics.

    I’ve never actually heard anyone deny this myself. What I hear most often is that the universities are where the smartest people are, so it’s to be expected. 🙂

  185. Poolman, what you witnessed in January 2009 is the typical double standards applied by leftists like the media.

    I think the double standards apply to all Americans, not exclusively the left or the right. The American exceptionalism meme is the primary blame. Instead of operating as a filter offering the best of the best to humanity, it has functioned more to shut down dissent, covering over any flaws from public view.

    It is really good that so many are waking up to this reality. That their idols are being shot down is good. Huck is right on regarding the issue as one of idolatry. We’ll see how far we can go from here in righting our wrongs as opposed to denying them and burying them with deceptions.

    Justice wins at the end of the day, no matter the manner it will be achieved.

  186. Just this quarter I’ve heard two very unflattering and gratuitous slaps at “right wing conservatives” in lectures on topics having nothing whatsoever to do with politics.

    When I was graduatig from the LL.M. program at the UW in 2005, we had a joint ceremony with the other law school students…the other LL.M. program, and the JDs.

    Our speaker was a professor from Berkley who had decided that it was perfectly appropriate to make the Commemncement address a diatribe on all things Bush and conservative.

    It was all that I could do to keep from shouting “HEY! DOUCHEBAG! In case yoiu hadn’t notied, today isn’t about you or your idiotic political beliefs. Be inspirational or be gone!”

  187. It is really good that so many are waking up to this reality. That their idols are being shot down is good. Huck is right on regarding the issue as one of idolatry. We’ll see how far we can go from here in righting our wrongs as opposed to denying them and burying them with deceptions.

    I really don’t mind you wearing your hairshirt, but your wailing and knashing of teeth really eclipses the good things that DO set us apart from everyone else.

  188. I really don’t mind you wearing your hairshirt, but your wailing and knashing of teeth really eclipses the good things that DO set us apart from everyone else

    Amen. If I ever heard a thing positive about America from our resident Benedict, I might say, “Okay, a little self reflection is necessary. Lord knows we aren’t perfect, Penn State being only the latest example (as is OWS, by the way).” But since all I hear is constant criticism about America, our sinful nature, our greed, our imperialism, the conspiracies, I tend to tune out the rest.

    I would suggest Poolman should make a trip to Joplin, MO, to perhaps see an America he may not know exists. An America of small, insignificant folk in real flyover country – who still take care of their neighbors. Right now I’ve 10 former coworkers who have been there for weeks, paying their own way, building homes at cost and providing the capital and labor for people without one.

    I guess I am jingoistic. I still feel America is better than everyone else. And I do mean everyone else. That includes Canada, Australia, and anything Europe. I think about our Vets today and what they do, most certainly not getting rich while doing it. The rest is not even debatable.

  189. Huck,

    Tex, IMO this doesn’t have anything to do with tolerance and everything to do with idolatry.

    I think it’s both, for what it is worth. Deification of athletes and athletics (for crying out loud) – and the “new tolerance” leading to amorality in the ability to discern good from evil. In my opinion Huck, they generally go hand-in-hand.

    By the way, the new tolerance is just the opposite of the real definition of tolerance. We’ve managed to change the meaning of the word tolerance too the last 40 years.

  190. Rutherford, I know you’re still deciding on OWS, but the Drudge headline reads…

    DEATH, DISEASE PLAGUE ‘OCCUPY’ PROTESTS

    You’ll forgive me if I don’t find this by accident and something more than just coincidence. 😉

  191. Sent to me in an email from one of my funnier brother-in-laws:

    I’m passing this on because it worked for me today. A Dr. on TV said to have inner peace we should always finish things we start & we all could use more calm in our lives. I looked around my house to find things I’d started & hadn’t finished, so I finished off a bottle of Merlot, a bottle of Chardonnay, a bodle of Baileys, a butle of wum, tha mainder of Valiuminun scriptins, an a box a chocletz. Yu haf no idr how fablus I feel rite now. Sned this to all who need inner piss. An telum i luvum…

  192. I would suggest Poolman should make a trip to Joplin, MO, to perhaps see an America he may not know exists. An America of small, insignificant folk in real flyover country – who still take care of their neighbors. Right now I’ve 10 former coworkers who have been there for weeks, paying their own way, building homes at cost and providing the capital and labor for people without one.

    That is pretty noble but also speaks to the human spirit, not exclusively an American virtue. The first settlers were given the same treatment by the natives they encountered here. Look how that played out.

    How many Americans are being turned out of their homes daily, homes in livable condition that have not been decimated by nature? And how many neighborhoods are being bulldozed where communities once flourished?

    You may not like my observations, but I don’t make this shit up. It is more productive to realize our sins and live in the reality that they corrupt rather than deny they exist all the while covering your eyes and ears to their distasteful manifestations.

    Maybe a list of those things that DO set us apart IS in order.
    Where do we find that?

  193. Maybe a list of those things that DO set us apart IS in order. Where do we find that?

    Where do people yearning to be free and have a chance at opportunity want to live? Why don’t you start with immigration vs. emigration rates for starters? If we opened our borders, people entering would quickly overwhelm our services. America is still the most sought after country with which to live on earth.

    Fortunately, I’ve met very few of you through the years. And there is absolutely no doubt our country would be better off without you. And I mean that sincerely. We would be much better off if you relocated elsewhere.

    One thing I’ve always noticed about you American hating types Poolman. You bitch much, but do little – and you never, ever leave. I think what keeps you from even given a second’s thought to leaving America is that you know that too.

    Unfortunately with the freedoms we have, it also brings an inherent weakness. It allows you the freedom to hate your country. And you do that well.

  194. Which America are you defending, Tex, the dream or the reality?

    There may still be pockets of utopia, but the entire garment is being run through the mill. Your beloved America has been outsourced.

    I went yesterday to get a replacement battery for my computer’s battery backup. I found one and when the guy rang it up, he asked if I wanted to contribute any money to help the veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan to find work when they returned.

    I flipped the battery over where it had a “made in China” sticker and looked at the guy and said, “Here’s your problem. This stuff isn’t made in America, you just sell it to Americans. If you could make this stuff here, there’d be some jobs.”

    Maybe it would cost more than 24 bucks. Or not. It would have a lot less miles on it, for sure.

  195. You base your judgment of America on the percentage of manufacturing domestic or abroad? Did you realize you as the consumer are benefactor? Had it been made in America, you likely would have paid $124.00 for it.

    But if you don’t like the outcome or the choices, why don’t you work on changing the environment, rules and tax structure, providing an incentive for manufacturing to return here instead of abroad? You voted for a President whose purpose it seems is to demonize companies large and small, hell bent on destroying capitalism – with an abysmal record of creating jobs. And you have said you will vote for him again. Maybe the real problem is people like you?

    The real truth is you feel like you’re a personal failure and are looking for somebody to blame, when the fault is your own.

    Doesn’t take an MD or PHD to figure that much out. If you were gainfully employed, I expect your opinions would be much less cynical and more focused. You don’t seemed to be terribly principled to me.

  196. I know you guys don’t like Chris Matthews and I know you loathe Bill Maher but …

    On Real Time with Bill Maher tonight, Chris Matthews said something about the Penn State scandal that I think resonates. I’m paraphrasing but basically he said you must go into any institution with your own moral barometer, your own code of ethics. You cannot look to the institution for those ethics because the institution’s interest is in self-preservation. McQueary witnessed the rape, went to his father and to Paterno and other insiders instead of the cops. He allowed his own code of ethics (if he had one) to be subordinate to the code of the institution. The same type of thing probably went on in the Catholic church.

    When you join any group, you must be your own man with your own sense of right and wrong. You can’t depend on the group for guidance because for the most part, the group is guided by protecting their own.

  197. “When you join any group, you must be your own man with your own sense of right and wrong. You can’t depend on the group for guidance because for the most part, the group is guided by protecting their own.”

    Yeah, just like the democratic party or say. . .OWS.

  198. @ Rutherford on many:
    Well late to the game on this one but I’m glad that the ordeal that is your move/life change is actually giving you a fresh outlook health care wise. The proverbial silver lining hey?

    On the shout out to Vets. Thank you R and for the record even on your worse day I’d not think you a commie.

    As for the Chris Mathews bit. I won’t give him the benefit of the doubt that your paraphrase is in some way doing him a disservice. To me he sounds as if he is intentionally breaking out the gray brush on a totally black and white issue. Institutions that take on the organism title over organization can not be allowed to fail so. The CC and Penn are organisms,they must have the higher morality arrow in their quivers.

  199. Though from Oklahoma, I don’t care much for Barry Switzer because I always thought he was an arrogant ass – famous former OU coach, who left in disgrace much as Joe Paterno is now doing. I provide the background for the couple of people who don’t follow football. Switzer was even more successful than Joe Pa during his 15 year reign as head coach of OU – three national championships, about a zillion All Americans, reputation as somewhat of a gigolo, real free spirit; a legitimate bootlegger’s boy who came from nothing to become this celebrated figure, then fired when the program went out of control.

    But one thing I have always liked about Switzer. He’s a straight shooter and doesn’t mince words. And I read something this morning that I thought he had it quite right, explaining at least the Penn State situation and why it was allowed to go on.

    I paraphrase: “Everybody on that staff had to know, because I know how close coaching staffs become – they are like family. And the reason it was covered up is because we have made athletes and the coaches something more than they really are…”

    He’s right. Like our politicians, when we put these people on undeserved pedestals, invariably it leads to them thinking they can play by a different set of rules.

    That needs to stop.

  200. Why are we allowing this? I have no doubt this is an equal party opportunity clause too.

    Generally, however, legal analysts say that Wall Street insider trading laws do not apply to Congress. As an open and public institution, the legal assumption has long been that any member of the public can have access to information about how Congress works. In practice, though, that’s simply not true, as powerful members of Congress come into contact daily with market-moving tidbits. That gap between the law and the reality has made Capitol Hill a virtual free-fire zone for insider trading. Over the years, academic studies have found that members of the House of Representatives beat the market by as much as six percent per year and members of the Senate do even better than that.

    I propose a new rule be added to be eligible to hold a Congressional position. Congress members and their immediate family members can not hold individual stocks and bonds while in office…

    They may participate in a mutual fund like the rest of us.

  201. 😆 Here’s a nugget of truth from Ace of Spades about OWS. 😆 You need to absorb this Poolman, if possible:

    They are protesting because they suck at life. Their lives suck. They are doomed to suck.

    But, the thing is, in any system or society, they would be on the bottom. In the socialist paradise they dream of, they’d be the drudges with the four-to-an-apartment situations.

    They seem to think that if they change the way society values things, then they’ll rise to the top. But they wouldn’t. Because in any system, including socialism, you still have to do something to earn that top spot on the socialist gravy train.

    The problems that beset them in a less-socialist system — lack of discipline, lack of skills, lack of hygiene, lack of not sucking, etc. — would still hamper them in the socialist paradise they clamor for.

    And the thing is, the people on top of thing in a capitalist system? Would still be perched near the top of a socialist system. Because even a socialist system winds up promoting people who show up on time, do the tasks assigned to them (mostly looting money from other people), and tuck in their shirts once in a while.

    We’d just all be poorer.

  202. The evil, sick fuck molester, like many serial killers, was playing a game. He wanted to get caught. The name of his book is “Touched”.

    Unfortunately for the little boys he raped, he was surrounded by cowards.

    Vigilante justice is in order for everyone in the loop who is outside the arm of the law.

    If it was my son, I would scalp Paterno and donate it to his own damn campus library he funded. His carcass would be discarded without respect.

    As for the assistant coach who, according to his own grand jury testimony, turned his back and walked a way while hearing “rhythmic slapping”, he should take a blade and slit his own throat. Either that or request someone else do it for him.

    There is a time where a man must sacrifice his career and even his freedom. One of those times being when you walk in and catch a 10 year old boy being anal raped. You beat the rapist until he is unconscious. If he wakes or not is in God’s hands.

  203. 85 percent of the OWS protesters HAVE jobs. Compared with the tea party,where only 56 percent were employed. Most of that is attributed to the TP participants being older and many retired, whereas the OWS people are mostly younger with only 28 percent over 40.

    If that doesn’t fit the “mold” you’ve made for them Tex, too bad. It IS mostly a youth movement. The youth are a direct product of the society we have raised them within. This is our future. This is who will be affected the most by our national and global policies and the monstrous debt we’ve incurred.

    I’m sorry you can’t connect. Their means may not always appear as best or right, but over all the message is one of injustice. A message that cannot be denied and resonates across the globe.

    As far as me leaving this country, I don’t think so. We’ve been over this before. At 54, I’ve been here longer than most. My dad served first in the Navy on the USS Boxer (an aircraft carrier) before and at the time I was born. He then re-enlisted in the Army and worked his way up the ranks to CWO. He was a “lifer”, we called them. The military WAS his life. Therefore it was mine until the age of 18. It governed where I lived, how I dressed and behaved, and how I was treated medically and otherwise. If you have never lived as a dependent, you likely do not understand that. The entire family is basically “part of the military”. It is a community with varying peoples.

    Litton Industries was wooing my father just before his death. He was going to try to get his 25 years in before joining the civilian ranks. I’m certain he would have continued working on the guidance systems for our weaponry, since that was his expertise. As a lifelong republican and soldier, I’m certain we would have charged conversations, if he were still around. Regardless, I carry that heritage. I know he felt strongly in what he did. Being on the side of “right” was very important to him.

    Or maybe his eyes would be opened, as plenty of veterans’ eyes now are. Some of them are leading the movement, if any can be considered leading. It is not easy to identify leaders in a movement that rejects leadership and rather empowers all participants.

    http://www.military.com/news/article/vets-heed-occupy-rallying-cry

    You can rant all you want about how “unAmerican” you think I am. I don’t care if what I share pisses you off. It pisses me off, too. But which one of us is in denial? You accuse me of not doing anything. What have you done to contribute to the over all good? (Hint: White-washing does more harm than good.)

  204. Do you personally believe America is exceptional?

    I believe we had an opportunity to be exceptional and many of what we have accomplished is. But, like the old football player continually recounting his performance in the homecoming game, we are living in the past using old accomplishments in the attempt to justify our present stature and privilege.

    We have taken our exceptionalism and cashed it in, repackaging it in many forms and marketed it to the point of diminishing returns.

    If it is true that the “proof’s in the pudding”, then it’s time to toss the tainted tapioca.

  205. I hear the guy who heard the rhythmic slapping sound has been getting death threats, has resigned as an assistant/interim coach, and is in protective custody as he works on drinking himself to death.

    What I haven’t been able to find out is…which side is sending him death threats?

    Is he being threatened for stirring up trouble of JoePa/Penn St. or is he being threatened for doing jack shit about a kid being raped?

    Anyone know?

  206. I find it laughable that 100 people somehow lend the considerable weight of a huge demographic.

    generations of former U.S. military men and women threw their considerable weight behind the Occupy movement born in mid-September when about 100 protesters also marched in the Wall Street area.

    Then again it is an AP story.
    It is pretty easy to rip on the article and the thinking behind it. Bottomline if you’re a big supporter of the lines found in the Dubnik piece you are ether ill informed or ignorant.

  207. I’m sorry you can’t connect. Their means may not always appear as best or right, but over all the message is one of injustice. A message that cannot be denied and resonates across the globe.

    Connect? With that group? What makes you think I want to connect with that shithole called OWS? 😆 And I don’t believe for a minute 85% of them are employed. I think about half of them are without known purpose and wouldn’t know how to turn a wrench. For the most part, they are unemployable and pigs.

    Tuberculosis, plague, rape, suicide and death, vandalism, theft. What next? Cannibalism? I can see where a sorry, traitorous turd like you connects. You want to think of yourself of some do gooder radical and prophet. What a joke…

  208. CIA’s Bin Laden unit Michael Scheuer said that the enemy of the United States – radical Islam opposed to democracy and gender equality – does not exist and never existed. The attacks aimed at the United States are not spurred by its lifestyle but by its Middle East policy and support for Israel and Saudi Arabia.

    The renowned analyst lashed out at US elites for their belief – inherited from Trotskyism – in the superiority of a political model and the possibility of spreading it everywhere. In this regard, he noted that, until he was called down by the Syrian government, the American ambassador in Damascus had criss-crossed the country instigating various groups to overthrow the regime, something no other ambassador would be allowed to do.

  209. I won’t give him the benefit of the doubt that your paraphrase is in some way doing him a disservice.

    Alfie, based on your interpretation, I did Chris Matthews a disservice. Chris, in no shades of grey terms, condemned Penn State. His remarks about McQueary were limited to a discussion of personal responsibility and that we cannot delegate our own code of ethics to the code of the organization (or organism as you say) to which we belong.

    But make no mistake, Chris was not letting Penn State off the hook by any means.

  210. A couple of thoughts:

    When you want to understand the problem with “American exceptionalism” you need to focus from macro down to micro. If any one of us on this board said “I’m exceptional” he’d get a virtual ass kicking that would shake the Internet to its roots. It would be viewed as either self-delusional or braggadocio, neither an appealing quality.

    Why should this be any different on a macro scale? When I hear the phrase “American exceptionalism” I don’t hear pride in our accomplishments, I hear “America resting on its laurels.”

    Second, regarding the OWS confrontations, I’m having a real problem discerning where the provocation comes from. Are we talking peaceful protest and overzealous cops or not? I’m honestly not sure. Sadly I don’t trust either end of the media (MSNBC on the left or Fox on the right) to tell me the truth.

  211. Something to think about …. a bunch of dumbass kids protest the ouster of a “respected coach” who turns out to be a pretty sick f*ck, and they turn over a van and break windows and not one single arrest yet students peacefully protest at college campus in Berkeley and a bunch get arrested.

    Something wrong with that picture folks.

  212. I think the picture you’re seeing is that regardless of its perceived history the current admin of UC/B means what it says.
    I don’t know what years saw you at Harvard but I can’t imagine the time indicated that the policing was honest. By that I mean that colleges everywhere have an as shaky if not more so record on consistent application of the law.
    I know from personal and professional experience Harvard, BU, MIT,BC, Northeastern and Tufts are brutally sensitive to crime stats and campus police/security actions.

  213. When I hear the phrase “American exceptionalism” I don’t hear pride in our accomplishments, I hear “America resting on its laurels.”
    Then you need a Miracle Ear™ or something.

  214. in #293 R says:
    Second, regarding the OWS confrontations, I’m having a real problem discerning where the provocation comes from. Are we talking peaceful protest and overzealous cops or not? I’m honestly not sure.

    Trust me when I tell you it is made up of countless variables. It is not restricted to one side or one event. This has been true for many civil unrest episodes in history.

  215. And simply because I want a stab at being #300 I am watching and to now unimpressed with Obamas “trans Pacific” trade speil. Talk about leading from behind. This guy is no leader.

  216. “Second, regarding the OWS confrontations, I’m having a real problem discerning where the provocation comes from. Are we talking peaceful protest and overzealous cops or not? I’m honestly not sure. Sadly I don’t trust either end of the media (MSNBC on the left or Fox on the right) to tell me the truth.”

    We can’t look at the Occupy movement as a single entity and we can’t look at the police as a single entity. So we can’t look at the provocations and conflicts as single things, either.

    They are all individual entities and individual events and actions. Different factors influence each. Different police agencies in different cities are going to act differently in how they evict people (until provoked), different occupy groups in different cities are going to act differently when getting evicted (until provoked) and the perception, method and measure of provocation in each case is going to vary.

    There is no single answer.

    “Trust me when I tell you it is made up of countless variables. It is not restricted to one side or one event. This has been true for many civil unrest episodes in history.”

    Of course, Alfie, as usual, says it better with less words.

  217. Poolman I’m trying to have you express yourself, preferably in words.
    I’ve assessed the original link to a Blogger post and have completed my initial work up.
    YOUR position on Messr Dylan

  218. Lots of tension at multiple Occupy sites tonight. Denver has been evicted and it is getting a bit ugly. Arrests are still going on and I have heard the words “form up” in the last 2 minutes.

    Oakland has been told (again) to break it up tonight.

    And all eyes will be on Portland at midnight PST.

    There are individual streams for all of those, but they usually show anything juicy here.

  219. Poolman I’m trying to have you express yourself, preferably in words.

    Words? When pictures speak a thousand of those words? Okay. The gist is this Dylan was obviously not there as a protester or by his own volition.

    He became the afternoon entertainment, making demands and supposedly a representative “example” of what this movement is about. It was televised on multiple channels and sent out on many networks, coverage the movement has not been getting in the MSM.

    It was was obviously staged, as some smarter OWS people suspected, but the media has already presented the side they wanted the public to see and hasn’t corrected their pronunciation. Unless, of course, you have found a MSM outlet that recanted and has exposed this for the misinformation and propaganda it is.

  220. Well Poolman I have to say you are coming off as phoney.
    Your OWS position seems to be all over the map and unless an action at an occupy site fits within your twisted dogma it is false. That is actually a direct contradiction of what the most dogmatic occu-pod purists believe.
    Lets break down some specifics found in this thread alone.
    1)100 US military personnel march in uniform it is somehow a dramatic statement the the military overwhelmingly support OWS,if a discharged Canadian does something he is an agent of the govt.
    2) You link to a site that specifically calls out Dylan Spoelestra as a member of the Canadian Special Forces. No image of the ID is provided but I imagine even if it were it wouldn’t help the claim. Canadian Forces ID don’t list specialties,it lists name number and component. Little tid bit on CSF,they are one entity spread out via units into the other branches.
    3) #2 is really neither here nor there since Spoelestra at all times stated he was former army. I can make a lengthy tome on why it is mathematically unlikely Spoelestra was SF and can touch on the questionable honorable nature of his service.
    4) One can say he was showboating and not truly committed to the OWS cause. OK but you yourself embed a YouTube video from YesLab that is a political/arts program out of NYU that has leftist leanings and motivations far afield from Wall St. Self promotion during the OWS as well as the TP events is hardly an alien concept.
    5) The media coverage seems to be a special point of outrage for you. I dare imagine it would be an item you’d tag with your classic MANipulation thing. You give them far too much credit. If it bleeds it leads. OWS is a fucking yawn so some douche on a statue rates coverage. Wah wah wah.
    6) I believe Spoelestra is a lost nobody looking for something 99% of the nobody’s that are the OWS crowd are looking for. Something that makes them feel like they were part of something. Its like the Woodstock generation. No self worth unless it is created via a marketing schtick. Sad,nah PATHETIC.

  221. Something that makes them feel like they were part of something. Its like the Woodstock generation. No self worth unless it is created via a marketing schtick. Sad,nah PATHETIC.

    Agreed Alfie. I have said the same to Rutherford, Poolman and Thor on this blog. A lost pack of stinking, bleating sheep, suffocating from lives without purpose. Pathetic is the perfect descriptor. Like Woodstock, their legacy is disease and a mountain high pile of trash which they seem incapable of helping to clean up.

    And like Woodstock, perhaps what is most pathetic is that the initial intent of the message had merit. With Woodstock is was the protestation of Vietnam and the hope of a message of peace; with OWS, is was a complaint of greed and corruption. Both had validity – and both messages were lost in the pagan ritual.

    At least at Woodstock, we had some lasting music – something besides the continual banging of drums. What is it about bleating sheep and drums that go together? Primeval – primitive man? That is what a great majority of these OWS protestors remind me – Troglodytes sitting around a bonfire.

    Smoke…..drink…..weed….food….T&A….ummm….gggooddddd….

  222. Very well said Alfie.

    Poolman is a human smokescreen for the true assholes of the world. He brings loon illegitimacy to valid beefs, rendering discussion all the more challenging.

    Military…must be a plant. Military, must be a weather vein of the movement. Blaaaaaah!

    Poolman, you can quit rebelling against Daddy. You’re 50 something years old.

    Go hunt the Yeti. You would do less harm.

  223. @ Tex:

    Both had validity – and both messages were lost in the pagan ritual.

    I can imagine every left of center type you’ve ever crossed sabres with here and @ Chens (and elsewhere no doubt) having their bottom jaws strike the floor on that one.

    Bravo! It is an absolute truth. Definite value in the two events/eras cited and truer still what happened.

  224. Damn Tex, you came real close to compassion on that statement Alfie quotes.

    I’d only correct the record by saying the message is lost in the pagan ritual only for those who can’t see past the pagan ritual … or choose not to. 😉

  225. However, I’m sure it will give Tex etal great glee to know I finally saw a story on the MSM about police arresting an OWS protester for raping another.

    Getting harder and harder to just call it propaganda. 😦

  226. Well Rutherford, I’m glad your eyes are starting to open. You’re slow, but you usually come around to the truth. 😉

    What’s next up for OWS? How about blood letting, while they dance naked around the Baal statue?

    Huck has proven real helpful on observation. I wait for him to announce where the action is, then bounce over to his link. It’s like watching a train wreck, but it never lacks for entertainment value.

  227. Portland didn’t get as crazy as it could have last night or today. The parks and streets have been cleared, and fences put around the parks. There is a large group in a plaza at the center of town that has been given until midnight to clear out. They are currently doing their nightly meeting, with tonight’s topic being what their immediate next moves are.

    MSM feed
    Occupy Portland feed

  228. LOL.

    I think Occupy Portland is about done. In 24 hours they have gone from a crowd of easily 2-3 thousand to 1-2 hundred tonight. Someone in that city earned their pay on this one. They had a really good plan that was well-executed. They were patient yet firm and let the crowd break itself up with time and periodic encouragement. I didn’t see or hear of any overly heavy hands and general consensus seems to be that the only people arrested were those who wanted to get arrested.

    Not that I am for or against breaking up the group, but it was an interesting view at policing that seems to be very effective at its goal.

  229. Again for my anti-OWS friends, a quote I thought you’d enjoy:

    “Occupy’ is nothing but a pack of louts, thieves, and rapists, an unruly mob, fed by Woodstock-era nostalgia and putrid false righteousness,” Miller wrote in a blog entry last week. “These clowns can do nothing but harm America”HuffPo

  230. Judge Napolitano gets it right Poolman. Good find.

    You voted for the guy who doesn’t – and have said you will vote for him again.

    Now pull your head out of your ass and get on the right team.

  231. Damn Rutherford – another great find. I’m not familiar with this man, but I could have written that article. He is absolutely right.

    Now pull your head out of your ass and get on the right team. 🙂

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