You Cannot Fill a Leaky Bucket

November 2, 2011 at 5:28 pm 324 comments

It’s one thing to argue about politics but things have gone completely awry when we cannot agree on basic mathematics. Such was the case late last week on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” when the two co-hosts, Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski got into a heated discussion about raising taxes on the very rich.

This was not your typical argument with the liberal (Mika) saying the current tax system was unfair and the conservative (Joe) saying that the rich pay more than their fair share. No, this argument was about a much more fundamental concept that for reasons that evade me, Mika just couldn’t grok. Joe Scarborough said that before you raise the taxes of the rich one dime you first have to close loopholes. Mika saw this as some distraction from getting that extra ounce of blood out of the “1%”.

Look folks, this ain’t rocket science. If for every tax hike you have a corresponding effort by creative attorneys and accountants to evade the tax hike, then you’ve wasted your effort. The simple truth is  that by closing loopholes, you automatically bring in more revenue without ever raising taxes one cent. The problem, as evidenced in the Mika/Joe debate is that closing loopholes doesn’t provide that catharsis that “punishing the rich” with a tax hike provides. But what good is catharsis for the sake of catharsis? It might make you feel good but it doesn’t solve the problem. On this one, Joe is absolutely right. You simplify the tax code first by closing loopholes. Then and only then do you consider which rates need to be raised.

If the bucket has a hole in it, it doesn’t matter how much water you pour in.

Distribution of Wealth

There has been much talk lately about the unfair distribution of wealth in the United States of America. It is the fundamental lament of the Occupy Wall Street movement. The other day I was looking at some graphs illustrating this “unfair distribution” and it occurred to me that one area of dispute may revolve around definitions. Distribution as it applies to our current problem is a statistical concept. It’s a phenomenon mapped out on an x and y-axis. Yet when we get into a political discussion about it I think another strange perspective kicks in. It is almost as though we view that there is some huge pot of money and some grand poobah decides who gets what share of the pot. This evil overlord “distributes” the money in such a way that 1% get most of it and 99% see very little of it. Our current national dialogue centers around everybody getting “their fair share”, again as though there is some central fund from which to divvy out the riches.

That definition of distribution not only leads to class warfare, it makes it impossible to diagnose the problem. The distribution problem comes down to two factors, lack of employment and skewed valuation of the jobs that do exist. Since those who hire typically make more than those who are hired, high unemployment immediately funnels wealth to a small minority. Yet even if we had 4% unemployment (probably a best case scenario) we would see skewed distribution due to the way jobs are valued. Is Madonna really more important in your life than your child’s teacher or your gardener? Yet neither of those folks could ever hope to attain Madonna’s wealth. Is a hedge fund manager really more valuable to society than a fireman?

So the first step to leveling wealth distribution is getting as many folks employed as possible. Quite frankly, if you don’t work you don’t deserve remuneration. There isn’t some central pot from which you get to have your fair share. Income is a trade of money for services. As a liberal I do believe it is society’s obligation to provide training opportunities so all those willing to work can do so.

The second step to leveling wealth distribution is to reconsider how we compensate for various jobs. This does not mean taking money away from the very rich. It simply means paying teachers, firemen, policemen, and yes even the gardener, a little bit more. This second step is actually the harder nut to crack because it cuts to the value system each of us applies to various forms of work. One of the reasons we have such a problem with illegal immigration is that illegal immigrants are willing to do work the average American considers “beneath” him. The current distribution of wealth is more  a reflection of our collective value system than it is any segment “stealing” more than their fair share.

There is no doubt that the behavior of the financial sector in recent years has been reprehensible. But we are kidding ourselves when we lay all the blame at their doorstep. By perpetuating our value system, the 99% play a large role in keeping the 1% where they are.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

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The Frat Boy and the Knowing Smile Personhood Comes to Mississippi

324 Comments Add your own

  • 1. El Tigre  |  November 2, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    Grasshopper is learning that the pie expands (and contracts).

    “Tree that does not bend, breaks very easily.” think)Master Po (or a fortune cookie — I can’t remember).

    (Is this really Rutherford?? Ragging on Bubbles Brzezinski and all?)

  • 2. Rutherford  |  November 2, 2011 at 6:53 pm

    Sometimes Mika embarrasses me. When I watch her father appear on the show, I get the distinct feeling sometimes she embarrasses him.

    But she is a great counterweight to Joe. Despite your hatred of MSNBC, Morning Joe would be a good investment of your time. Unlike the primetime lineup, you really get a variety of opinion. Of course the drawback is Joe Scarborough is a reasonable Republican and not a crackpot. That would disappoint you. ;-)

  • 3. poolman  |  November 2, 2011 at 7:25 pm

    reasonable Republican

    Isn’t that an oxymoron? I guess it depends on what the word “reasonable” means and who is considering it. :grin:

    You hit the nail on the head in respect to our value system.

    That is human nature, as always, dominating our “civilized” societies. As soon as any rules were established, there were those finding ways to skirt them. The more conniving one is, the more we admire and reward them. The inequality that produces in today’s so called “democracies” is staggering! It has led to this Occupy movement.

    Regarding Mika B, I don’t know whether her “act” is authentic or contrived. We all know Gretchen from Fox is smart but “acts” dumb all the time. Do you think it possible Mika is the same? I haven’t watched enough to know, but with her dad as bright and informed as he is, it would seem some of that would have rubbed off. No?

  • 4. dead rabbit  |  November 2, 2011 at 8:53 pm

    ” It simply means paying teachers, firemen, policemen, and yes even the gardener, a little bit more.”

    How about we leave worrying about what teachers and cops make to teachers and cops?

  • 5. Tex Taylor  |  November 2, 2011 at 9:38 pm

    Mika Brzezinski? I didn’t even know that airhead’s last name. Ah, so it makes more sense now. Because frankly, I had never seen or heard of her before Morning Joe, and after hearing her one morning, I thought, “This Lady really is a moron. I mean, Poolman dumb.”

    So, now I get it. Kind of like McCain’s fat daughter who appears on all the Sunday morning talk shows? And to be fair, Meghan is equally clueless and unqualified.

    Is there any place in America anymore than nepotism doesn’t rule? It’s even creeped into coaching anymore.

    And this one Rutherford, was half reasonable. I’m sure you’ll ruin it in the comment section. :twisted:

  • 6. Tex Taylor  |  November 2, 2011 at 9:49 pm

    Seems the media has been lying about Newt divorcing his wife while “on her death bed” all these years.

    Read this Rutherford so you’ll know. I know you’re only repeating what you’ve heard (so had I), but you don’t want to be a party to gossip lying like most Libs (like Poolman).

    http://www.conservativecommune.com/2011/11/gingrichs-daughter-that-story-about-my-parents-divorce-is-hogwash-by-the-way/

  • 7. dead rabbit  |  November 2, 2011 at 10:08 pm

    Man, I’ve been waking up at 2 am and taking two Aleve then going back to bed. I then wake up at 445.

    The swelling and water in my knees have gone way down!

    Today, it felt like I was 24 years old playing basketball.

    I normally suck big time. I was actually dominating today! I couldn’t be stopped in the paint.

    I wonder why the Aleve is so much more effective if I sleep on them for 2 or 3 hours first?

    I’ve taken them while awake hours in advance and its not the same.

  • 8. Tex Taylor  |  November 2, 2011 at 10:20 pm

    Man, I had to take two Aleve the other night myself Rabbit. I was installation quarter round around a resanded floor, and I guess I’m not used to being up and down that much.

    About 6:00 PM, I can’t even hardly walk. But it worked like a champ. Next morning, I was fine.

    I have found Aleve is so much more effective for arthritis than any OTC. It seems to almost work miraculously on me.

  • 9. dead rabbit  |  November 2, 2011 at 10:26 pm

    It is an amazing drug. I try limit taking them only for sports or hard labor.

    I heard there is a heart attack risk with them. Makes me nervous because I do take 2.

    My uncle, who suffers from Lupus, pops 4 or 5 at a time to play softball.

    Can’t be healthy.

  • 10. Rutherford  |  November 3, 2011 at 12:43 am

    Poolman, Mika is an odd bird. I wouldn’t call her dumb per se. I do think more of the ambition and brains went to her siblings but she kinda serves as the maternal conscience on the show. She and I actually exchanged “tweets” once when I expressed frustration about my daughter eating dinner in front of the TV instead of at the table with the family. Mika’s advice was sound but worked only marginally. (The problem actually has been solved by our move. We refuse to let her eat anything messy in the living room since the carpet does not belong to us (e.g. we’re renting).)

    She’s a strong advocate for women learning how to conduct themselves in the workplace so they don’t get passed over. Clearly though “Morning Joe” is Scarborough’s show and Mika is a sidekick.

    I have heard that Gretchen Carlson’s idiocy is a total put-on. Anyway to make a buck I guess.

  • 11. Rutherford  |  November 3, 2011 at 12:45 am

    Dontcha love how when I write something that doesn’t particularly offend the regulars, the conversation immediately deteriorates to commercials for Advil? :lol:

    Rabbit and Tex do you know how friggin’ OLD you sound?

  • 12. Rutherford  |  November 3, 2011 at 12:46 am

    Sorry … wrong commercial … it was Aleve. :oops:

  • 13. Rutherford  |  November 3, 2011 at 12:47 am

    How about we leave worrying about what teachers and cops make to teachers and cops?

    Any idea how they get what they deserve without the unions you so despise?

  • 14. an800lbgorilla  |  November 3, 2011 at 6:54 am

    I haven’t tried Aleve in a while. I balance between hydrocodone and etodolac, sucking it up (the pain that is) as much as possible.

  • 15. an800lbgorilla  |  November 3, 2011 at 6:55 am

    Good question R, let me ask you this:

    What is the purpose of unions?

    Work with me on this.

  • 16. El Tigre  |  November 3, 2011 at 7:58 am

    “Any idea how they get what they deserve without the unions you so despise?”

    Yep. They take what’s being offered and what they’re willing to accept. Or did you mistype and mean to say, “how do they get more than they deserve?”

  • 17. El Tigre  |  November 3, 2011 at 8:11 am

    Watching Mika now. Goooood Laaawd she’s dumb — per se at that.

    R, when she’s not staring at herself in the monitor or mugging for the camera she offers nothing. But she knows how to giggle, fake nervous laugh, roll her eyes and scoff like the rest of your genius MSNBCers. And she knows how to “agree” or “disagree.”

    She is the 1%.

    Pitifull.

  • 18. El Tigre  |  November 3, 2011 at 9:10 am

    Ah yes. And the violence begins with the peaceful OWS liberal protesters. Who’d have thunk it?

    Now, how to blame the right. . .

  • 20. huckingfypocrites  |  November 3, 2011 at 10:42 am

    I watched that shit in Oakland last night via live streaming. Was pretty crazy stuff.

    I would expect its not all said and done, up there.

  • 21. Tex Taylor  |  November 3, 2011 at 10:46 am

    Hey “R”?

    Now that we are having mass arrests, thefts, rapes and sexual assault, chaos and anarchy in numerous cities across our declining nation, you still throwing in with the OWS crowd? :mad:

    Did not several of us warn you this was the predictable result?

    A shame, because all of us agree with do have some serious grievances with big banks. But when you hold double standards, don’t hold the biggest frauds of them all called Fannie and Freddie to account, have to pretend Obama isn’t up to his eyeballs in cahoots, and get amoral idiots from the left together for any length of time to protest, anarchy will soon ensue.

    I really wish at some time, you might give consideration to changing your political affiliation. It’s a losing proposition with the dregs of society, and you could certainly do better and deserve better.

  • 22. poolman  |  November 3, 2011 at 11:20 am

    I watched a lot of the Oakland “strike” live yesterday, too. It seems a group of about 100 out of what some estimates claim was upwards of 100,000 people were vandals that got destructive and violent. This goes against the core beliefs of the majority involved, but with such a large and unorganized group is inevitable.

    For you wide brush folks (you know who you are), that’s enough to paint it all black. A little yeast works its way throughout the whole batch, right?

    Just remember which side of this “movement” you’re on. It is quickly losing any middle ground.

  • 23. Tex Taylor  |  November 3, 2011 at 11:33 am

    For you wide brush folks (you know who you are), that’s enough to paint it all black. A little yeast works its way throughout the whole batch, right?

    Just remember which side of this “movement” you’re on. It is quickly losing any middle ground.

    Don’t remember vandalism at the Tea Parties…don’t remember rapes at the Tea Parties….don’t remember drug busts at Tea Parties….don’t remember theft at Tea Parties.

    Just remember which side of the “movement” you’re on (Brick).

  • 24. an800lbgorilla  |  November 3, 2011 at 11:34 am

    100,000?

    Ahhhh, yes, liberal math

  • 25. Rutherford  |  November 3, 2011 at 11:40 am

    sucking it up (the pain that is) as much as possible.

    Since we’re sharing our aches and pains strategies like a bunch of elderly men, I have to go with G on this one. If I take a pain reliever once a year that’s a lot. And it’s not cos I’m without pain. Hell, something somewhere is bothering me on a daily basis. It’s like round robin. If it’s not something, it’s something else. But I’m just not a big fan of drugs … and who knows, I may just have a high pain tolerance or perhaps on that 10 point scale, I’m never really above a 2 or 3.

  • 26. Rutherford  |  November 3, 2011 at 11:46 am

    What is the purpose of unions?

    Now you know G, that I’m going to give you the skittle sh*tting unicorn answer on this but here goes:

    Unions exist to negotiate on behalf of workers who individually cannot get their voices heard. It’s as simple as “strength in numbers”. If employers “always” treated workers fairly, unions would serve no purpose.

    Interesting case in point … for most of my 24 years with Acme Anvils, they never had unions. Simple reason: they treated their employees like kings and queens. They always kept an ear open for possible union activity, telling us management to be aware of it but never to interfere with it. So there was a degree of executive paranoia about it. Once layoffs started and bennies started getting cut, union activity increased 10-fold. One other interesting side note: the union activity at Acme amounted to nothing more than public gripe sessions. They have zero power and management does whatever the hell they want to.

  • 27. Rutherford  |  November 3, 2011 at 11:49 am

    Ah yes. And the violence begins with the peaceful OWS liberal protesters. Who’d have thunk it?

    You care to elaborate on that? Are you referring to the Oakland stuff from last week?

  • 28. an800lbgorilla  |  November 3, 2011 at 11:50 am

    WASHINGTON (AP)Government-controlled mortgage giant Freddie Mac has requested $6 billion in additional aid after posting a wider loss in the third quarter.

    Freddie Mac said Thursday that it lost $6 billion, or $1.86 per share, in the July-September quarter. That compares with a loss of $4.1 billion, or $1.25 a share, in the same quarter of 2010.

    This quarter’s $6 billion request from taxpayers is the largest since April 2010.

    Freddie’s losses are increasing mainly for two reasons: Many homeowners are paying less interest because they are able to refinance at lower mortgage rates. And failing and bankrupt mortgage insurers are not paying out as much money when homeowners default.

    Hmmmmm, 18 hours ago, Google reported Freddie Macs and Fannie Maes Obscene Bonus Plan. Here’s the interesting bit: it is REPUBLICANS, not Dems, calling for the Administration to cancel the bonuses. Now tell me R, who’s looking out for who?

    You on the left go on and on about crony capitalism, yet it is consistently you who is most guilty of it. Solyndra, Sun Power, Light Squared, Beacan Power Corp, Tesla Motors, GE, Fannie and Freddie- this Administration alone has one of the most corrupt records of buying favors ever seen in this nation. It is the epitome of corrupt.

  • 29. Rutherford  |  November 3, 2011 at 11:54 am

    Never mind Tigre …. I got my answer from G.

    This should have been a lead story on TV this morning. Don’t know why it wasn’t.

    From another article on the violence:
    Sheila Dvorak, 29, was visiting Oakland from upstate New York and geared up for a peaceful march Wednesday evening to the Port of Oakland to voice her concerns about healthcare.

    She stood somewhat stunned near the shattered Chase bank windows.
    “I think the root of the movement is peaceful,” said Dvorak, who marched across the Brooklyn Bridge with Occupy Wall Street last month. “I would ask whoever broke these windows to remember that. It’s the only way we’ll get what we want.”

    “This doesn’t feel right,” she added. “It’s not what I expected.”

    As she spoke, someone posted another sign on the busted window: “We are better than this.”

  • 30. Rutherford  |  November 3, 2011 at 11:56 am

    I think it was Poolman who posted just what a clusterf*ck it is in Oakland where the Mayor seems to be encouraging civil disobedience while her cops are trying to crack down on it. Insane.

  • 31. an800lbgorilla  |  November 3, 2011 at 11:56 am

    Since we’re sharing our aches and pains strategies like a bunch of elderly men, I have to go with G on this one. If I take a pain reliever once a year that’s a lot. And it’s not cos I’m without pain. Hell, something somewhere is bothering me on a daily basis. It’s like round robin. If it’s not something, it’s something else. But I’m just not a big fan of drugs … and who knows, I may just have a high pain tolerance or perhaps on that 10 point scale, I’m never really above a 2 or 3.” – R

    I’m consistently in the 5-6 range with periodic jumps into the 8-9 area. I just got RFA (Radio Frequency Ablation) done on the two nerves in the L4-L5 vertebrae on the right side. It’s helping (now at about 2), but now I notice the pain on the left, which was probably being masked by the right. I try to only take pain killers when I go above the 6 range, which is about 2-3 times a week.I’m not a fan of drugs either, but a week at the 5-6 range in pain takes a lot out of you.

  • 32. an800lbgorilla  |  November 3, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    Now you know G, that I’m going to give you the skittle sh*tting unicorn answer on this but here goes:

    Unions exist to negotiate on behalf of workers who individually cannot get their voices heard. It’s as simple as “strength in numbers”. If employers “always” treated workers fairly, unions would serve no purpose.” – R

    OK, this is sorta correct. The point is that unions theoretically prevent unfair/unsafe labor practices by private industry.

    What’s a public servant?

  • 33. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 3, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    You simplify the tax code first by closing loopholes. Then and only then do you consider which rates need to be raised.

    You’re starting to figure it out.

    However, are you willing to let the tax code just be a tax code, and not an instrument of government policy? Because whether you like it or not, that is exactly what it is. “Loopholes” come into being as a means to incentivise certain behaviors or spending as much as it is about collecting tax, and it is a tool used as much by the left, because the power to tax is the power to destroy, as much as it is by the right.

    Its nice to see you waking up to realities that you didn’t appear to have been conscious of before, R, but I think you should give some thought to the Law of Unintended Consequences, which is proven time and again by government action because the advocates weren’t capable of thinking ten moves ahead.

  • 34. Rutherford  |  November 3, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    I’m not a fan of drugs either, but a week at the 5-6 range in pain takes a lot out of you.

    Yeah, I hear you there. While my gut problems are for the most part painless, they cause so much inconvenience and anxiety that they are tremendously debilitating. I’m expecting biopsy results any day now. I hope they find something (other than cancer) that I can actually treat and get on with things!

  • 35. Rutherford  |  November 3, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    What’s a public servant?

    I have a feeling you’re leading me down some garden path here but I’ll play along.

    A public servant is someone compensated primarily by taxpayer funds as opposed to profits gained in private enterprise.

  • 36. MuffyMcD  |  November 3, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    “This should have been a lead story on TV this morning. Don’t know why it wasn’t.: -R

    Maddow was all over the “general strike” in Oakland last night. Compared it to the one there in ’41 or thereabouts. I don’t usually watch her show but once in a while I’ll see what she’s wound up about now. I lasted a good 4 minutes, had to switch off, came back later and she was still on Oakland and I lasted maybe another two minutes. She was going on and on about how this humble protest has organically grown into a massive general strike that has increased in number tenfold because it is being brutalized by a corrupt police force that is clearly on the side of the merchants.

    She didn’t show the part where the protester grabbed the Fox News reporter’s mike away and ripped the cap off and threatened to stab the guy in the neck with a pen that he was menacing inches away from the guy’s throat. That might have been the New York crowd now that I think about it.

  • 37. Rutherford  |  November 3, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    However, are you willing to let the tax code just be a tax code, and not an instrument of government policy?

    This is interesting. Let me see if I can get to where you’re headed with this comment.

    The tax code should be used to fund only those federal government obligations specified in the Constitution. It should not be used to manipulate the free market or fund ideologically based endeavors.

    How am I doing, Master Po?

  • 38. MuffyMcD  |  November 3, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    Oh geez tripped up on the italics there, didn’t I? :oops:

    “She (Mika)’s a strong advocate for women learning how to conduct themselves in the workplace so they don’t get passed over.” -R

    Does it have anything to do with becoming an expert at something?

  • 39. Rutherford  |  November 3, 2011 at 12:49 pm

    As many of you probably know, the Cain plot thickens as a third woman comes forward with accusations and Cain’s campaign has officially blamed the Perry campaign as the source of leaks.

    I always thought high drama was the venue of liberals. You boys are proving me wrong. :lol:

  • 40. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 3, 2011 at 12:51 pm

    Actually, R, I’m probing to see if you truly understand why there are 6 2 inch thick volumes of Treasury Regulations on my office bookshelf.

    It isn’t because tax codes are inherently difficult. They aren’t Several countries have managed just fine with tax codes of 5 pages or less.

    Why is ours so complicated and filled with “loopholes”? Because Congress won’t leave it alone.

    Every year, I get a 1 and half inch volume called the “Master Tax Guide”. This publication highlights the changes to the tax code for the coming year. Why does it change? Because Congress decides that this industry needs a break, or that it needs to foster investment here, or encouage savings, or ….you get the idea.

    What you propose takes this tool for economic stimulation away from the government that you are otherwise eager to empower. I’m not saying this is good or bad. I’m just wondering aloud just how much you’ve really thought that through.

  • 41. an800lbgorilla  |  November 3, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    I have a feeling you’re leading me down some garden path here but I’ll play along.

    A public servant is someone compensated primarily by taxpayer funds as opposed to profits gained in private enterprise.” – R

    Primarily? A public servant is someone who serves at the will of the people. The government, of, by, and for the will of the people.

    What is a monopoly?

  • 42. MuffyMcD  |  November 3, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    “…the Cain plot thickens as a third woman comes forward with accusations and Cain’s campaign has officially blamed the Perry campaign as the source of leaks.

    I always thought high drama was the venue of liberals..” -R

    None of this is that big a deal for Cain, I don’t think. Sounds like he may be a bit of a leche is all. We’ll see who these women are and what Cain did or said. So far it sounds like he created some awkward moments in the elevator.

    Anyway, pretty tame stuff compared to Clinton if you ask me. The sleeze factor between the two doesn’t even compare.

    Watch I’ll wind up wishing I’d waited five more minutes to weigh in.

    If it did originate from the Perry camp it better come down to a runaway staff.

  • 43. Rutherford  |  November 3, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    What is a monopoly?

    A monopoly is an enterprise which has positioned itself such that it has no viable competition.

    I’m braced for the next question, “Are you still beating your wife?” :-)

  • 44. MuffyMcD  |  November 3, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    “Does it have anything to do with becoming an expert at something?” -myself

    That doesn’t sound right. I’m referring to being an expert at what you do.

  • 45. Rutherford  |  November 3, 2011 at 1:36 pm

    Does it have anything to do with becoming an expert at something?

    Clearly, Muffy, you have to come to the table prepared to do battle. If you don’t have the expertise you can’t complain. With that said, you don’t think women are at greater risk of not being taken seriously in the work place vs their male counterparts?

    P.S. I fixed your italics. ;-)

  • 46. Rutherford  |  November 3, 2011 at 1:39 pm

    If it did originate from the Perry camp it better come down to a runaway staff.

    Perry is frat boy but I don’t think he’d authorize this “prank”. I’m with you, if his campaign had anything to do with it, I doubt he was personally involved.

  • 47. Rutherford  |  November 3, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    Muffy, as for your other Cain comments … I’m a bit surprised by my own reaction to this “scandal”. Normally my knee-jerk liberal instincts would kick in (as they did with McCain and the NYT back in 2008) and I would loudly condemn Cain and say “I told you so”.

    BUT, the Politico piece just looks like such light weight journalism, I’m not even sure it qualifies as journalism. Unless Cain actually told female employees “sleep with me or you might not like your next job evaluation” then it comes down to his being a jerk. You know what? We meet jerks all the time in our lives and we learn to deal with it.

    As I said on a prior thread, an employee demonstrates TRUE outrage when she can’t be bought and she fights for justice. The “settlement” or “agreement” as Cain has called it, greatly compromises the women’s cases for me.

  • 48. Tex Taylor  |  November 3, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    Witch hunt – straight of lib politics. Cain has been borked. And I agree – I highly doubt Perry had anything to do with this. And if a member of his staff did it and was proven, I’ll bet they would be fired in a minute.

    I saw Perry last night on Hannity and he was excellent. He looked and sounded Presidential, and they weren’t necessarily softball questions. He did a great job of explaining the illegal immigration issue.

    Where that guy is in a debate, you got me…

  • 49. an800lbgorilla  |  November 3, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    Unions exist to negotiate on behalf of workers who individually cannot get their voices heard. It’s as simple as “strength in numbers”. If employers “always” treated workers fairly, unions would serve no purpose.” – R

    A public servant is someone compensated primarily by taxpayer funds as opposed to profits gained in private enterprise.” – R

    A monopoly is an enterprise which has positioned itself such that it has no viable competition.” – R

    So, if a business is FORCED to use unionized labor, is that not a monopoly on manpower/labor? Wasn’t the very premise behind anti-trust legislation to ensure that predatory practices designed to remove competition be prohibited?

    The importance of government is that it is charged with certain responsibilities that are SPECIFICALLY prohibited to private enterprise. Private entities are not allowed to write policy to legislation, they are not allowed to enforce law, they are not allowed to provide oversight on the part of the people. In exchange for this power over the population, they serve at the will of the people by being accountable for their activities. Public employee unions run completely counter to the good of the population for several reasons:

    1) Government is NOT a monopoly- it is a function of governance specifically prohibited to private enterprise;

    2) therefore public employee unions have no place because there is no anti-trust factor to government service;

    3) which is in its essence service at the will of the people.

    Furthermore, even if you are going to make the argument that public employees have the right to unionize, the role of unions in the development of government policy is a conflict of interest. School principles through school districts up to the Secretary of Education all act in the interest of the state- NOT THE INTEREST OF THE TEACHERS UNION. Should the military be allowed to unionize?

    Tell me R, to the folks in South Carolina do you say that they don’t deserve a job because they choose not to unionize? The Dems are saying that with Pelosi saying that the Boeing plant in S.C. should be closed if it does not unionize. How is that no coercive? How is that not predatory practice?

    I believe that there needs to be federal legislation passed that makes ALL 50 states Right–to-Work states. I believe that there should be NO public employee unions, after all, public servants serve at the will of the people. I believe that states that currently mandate all workers to be a part of a union be pursued with anti-trust cases. It isn’t to break the back of the union, it is to remove the corruptive power of the union. Mountains of examples exist showing corruption on the part of unions and political parties- i.e. the Dems. Look at the GM bailout and the violation of 100 years worth of bankruptcy law and the crony corruption and conflict of interest of putting the UAW on the board of directors with a controlling share of the company. Look at the impact of California’s public employees union on the states budget and its ability to hold its workers accountable. Likewise in Illinois, Wisconsin, New York, New Jersey- pretty much all the blue states, which happen to be going broke.

    The pendulum of labor from the 1920’s has swung full spectrum. Now it is labor, not business, that is predatory and unfair.

  • 50. MuffyMcD  |  November 3, 2011 at 2:28 pm

    “With that said, you don’t think women are at greater risk of not being taken seriously in the work place vs their male counterparts?” -R

    Maybe. In politics, yes. Maybe in other arenas too where expertise is hard to measure. But when results count, I think the best violinist gets the solos.

    I don’t argue that it used to be that way. But that was before there were doors that would open for women. Today I think it’s balanced. I think competent women may even have a slight advantage over competent men nowadays. But then I also tend to focus on what I’m doing and have learned not to worry about what everyone else is thinking.

  • 51. MuffyMcD  |  November 3, 2011 at 2:41 pm

    “As I said on a prior thread, an employee demonstrates TRUE outrage when she can’t be bought and she fights for justice. The “settlement” or “agreement” as Cain has called it, greatly compromises the women’s cases for me.” -R

    Right on. I’m sorry I missed that but I got too far behind to catch up.

    Very well put.

  • 52. El Tigre  |  November 3, 2011 at 2:54 pm

    “For you wide brush folks (you know who you are), that’s enough to paint it all black. A little yeast works its way throughout the whole batch, right?”

    Yeah. Funny that way when you engage in mob behavior. :roll:

  • 53. El Tigre  |  November 3, 2011 at 2:56 pm

    Pretty good R.

    They were asking for it. :lol:

    (sarcasm, sarcasm)

    What the hell happened to Rutherford? Tex, did you off the guy and this is like a Weekend at Bernie’s kind of thing?

  • 54. El Tigre  |  November 3, 2011 at 2:59 pm

    Gorilla, my paternal grandfather was a floor worker at Studebaker. It’s a mindset. He went to his grave thinking his unions “did what it had to do.”

  • 55. Tex Taylor  |  November 3, 2011 at 3:23 pm

    What the hell happened to Rutherford? Tex, did you off the guy and this is like a Weekend at Bernie’s kind of thing?

    Probably R.L.’s new behavioral model, with me promising to leave him alone if Rutherford would vote for the Republican candidate in 2012. He’s counting the days now to pull that Republican lever. Like my wife, it takes Rutherford a long time to warm up to the idea of wising up and running my ass off. :twisted: But then it could be a form of reverse psychology.

    But the chances best Rutherford’s move from CT and living like us common folks, that Rutherford realized, seeing clearly past the mirage known as Caesar Barackus Obamaus, Rutherford recognizing his life isn’t going to get appreciably better under the banner of Brack’s Progism – the law of dismal and diminishing results. The Second Law of Thermopolitics, the first being “What’s in it for me?”

    Reality is a hard slap in the face.

  • 56. Tex Taylor  |  November 3, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    Gorilla, that #49 is a dandy. Couldn’t have said it better.

    I agree, and most assuredly agree there should be no such thing as a public employee union. None…

  • 57. El Tigre  |  November 3, 2011 at 3:29 pm

    “The Second Law of Thermopolitics, the first being “What’s in it for me?” :lol: :lol: :lol:

    Quote du jour!

  • 58. Rutherford  |  November 3, 2011 at 4:05 pm

    WOW G, your mini-treatise will take a few re-reads for me to completely grok.

    I’m just gonna throw a couple of ideas out there.

    First, if I understand “right to work” correctly, it makes union membership optional. Is that correct? If so, I’m all for it. No worker should be forced to join a union.

    Second, I’ve long held the belief that people charged with preservation of public safety (police, fire fighters, air traffic controllers) should not have the option to strike. How they ensure fair treatment when they don’t have the threat of strike in their back pocket is beyond me. But I just don’t like the idea of their striking.

    When it comes to teachers, are you therefore suggesting that teachers unions COULD or SHOULD exist at private schools? Clearly in a private school, the teacher does not serve at the will of the public.

    That said, I’m still lost on how folks serving in the public sector ensure equitable treatment if they are not allowed to organize.

  • 59. Rutherford  |  November 3, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    What you propose takes this tool for economic stimulation away from the government that you are otherwise eager to empower. I’m not saying this is good or bad. I’m just wondering aloud just how much you’ve really thought that through.

    Well I would think that you find it very GOOD to strip the Federal government of any power to manipulate the free market. Am I wrong?

  • 60. thorsaurus  |  November 3, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    “I agree, and most assuredly agree there should be no such thing as a public employee union. None…” – Tex

    Then you better put your riot gear on and get your ass up to Ohio. Quinnipiac’s latest has the repeal of senate 5 up 57% to 32%. Guess which side OWS is on and which side the Tea Party is on.

  • 61. El Tigre  |  November 3, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    “I’m still lost on how folks serving in the public sector ensure equitable treatment if they are not allowed to organize.”

    I’m still lost as to why this is a question.

  • 62. El Tigre  |  November 3, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    “Well I would think that you find it very GOOD to strip the Federal government of any power to manipulate the free market.”

    Free market? Like mortgage interest deductions, long-term/short-term gains, retirement and education plans, charitable deductions?

    R, this isn’t all about manipulation of “free markets.” It’s about influencing behavior (public, private, personal, collective) through incentives and disincentives.

  • 63. El Tigre  |  November 3, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    “Guess which side OWS is on and which side the Tea Party is on.”

    Who cares? Public unions shouldn’t exist.

  • 64. Rutherford  |  November 3, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    Tigre, from the worker’s perspective, a job is a job. Pay and work conditions aren’t inherently better based on whether it’s a public or private sector job. Protection against mis-treatment is necessary in both sectors.

    Are you saying that the remedy for poor public sector work conditions is to quit? If enough people just quit, the conditions will improve? Please clarify.

  • 65. El Tigre  |  November 3, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    R, in a sense, yes. Being a fireman or a teacher is neither a birthright nor akin to some form of servitude. There’s certainly nothing about public sector work that is inherently unfair.

    There’s a ballot box you know. Didn’t you read what Gorilla wrote? He’s right on.

    Georgia’s a right to work state. We have some of highest paid city and municipal employees in the country. Incredibly, they also happen to be among the worst performing. So what is it that requires them to have a union or demonstrates unfair treatment/conditions?

  • 66. El Tigre  |  November 3, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    “Pay and work conditions aren’t inherently better based on whether it’s a public or private sector job.”

    And to that I call BS. You’ve been shown the graphs on pay and benefits.

    So you know, what I’m saying is that unionization is a tool to extract “more” than that to which the employee should receive. What protection is there for the taxpayer for that?

  • 67. Rutherford  |  November 3, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    unionization is a tool to extract “more” than that to which the employee should receive. What protection is there for the taxpayer for that?

    I think that’s a good point. Look, I’m no Norma Rae. I do believe unions can be abusive and I’m particularly suspicious of the teacher’s union because from what I’ve heard from Randi Weingarten I find it hard to believe they have the kid’s best interests at heart.

    On the other hand, you won’t find me union-bashing either. I believe any employer unchecked has the potential to abuse its employees. There needs to be protection against that. If legal remedies without unions work, then fine, no need for unions. I’d need convincing of that.

  • 68. Tex Taylor  |  November 3, 2011 at 7:18 pm

    Then you better put your riot gear on and get your ass up to Ohio. Quinnipiac’s latest has the repeal of senate 5 up 57% to 32%. Guess which side OWS is on and which side the Tea Party is on.

    Is that why Republicans overwhelmingly carried Ohio in 2010, and it looks bleak for Bongo in Ohio in 2012, John the Novelist? :twisted:

    Anybody that thinks OWS is the mirror image politically of the Tea Party is a moron. I can see why you think that.

    What they are the mirror image of is behavior. The Tea Party was a model of good behavior, cleaning up after themselves. The Teat Party can’t even find the toilet, when they’re not raping the grunge women.

  • 69. Tex Taylor  |  November 3, 2011 at 7:28 pm

    I’ve got to admit. The more this Republican campaign goes on, the more I’m leaning toward Gingrich, though I no that probably taboo amongst the establishment.

    My second choice would grudgingly be Mitt Romney.

    And in defense of Herman Cain’s not knowing China wasn’t a nuclear power, that pretty much proves he ain’t ready for prime time. But my defense of Herman Cain would be this:

    I bet Cain knows there are 50 states.

    I bet Cain knows that American DVD’s don’t work in Europe.

    I bet Cain knows how to pronounce corpsman.

    I bet Cain knows its Cinco De Mayo.

    I bet Cain doesn’t speak “Austrian”.

  • 70. Tex Taylor  |  November 3, 2011 at 7:29 pm

    :oops: Make that know.

  • 71. dead rabbit  |  November 3, 2011 at 7:50 pm

    The lack of a strong union is hurting kids, big time.

    About 5 years ago, progressives came up with what they claim is an inclusionary model of education.

    Basically, the goal is to mainstream as many special ed kids as possible.

    At the very same time, “Attention Deficit Disorder” became the clinical flavor of the decade. Every lazy kid with enough money to see a doc now gets “accommodations”. Its a badge of honor.

    Contrary to the skepticism of a few of our resident lawyers, lawyers are feasting on this situation. I can back it up and will this weekend.

    The upshot?

    I teach 140 kids. 65 of them get accommodations (they don’t have to turn in homework on time etc). 30 of them have severe disabilities: autism, mentally ill, extremely low IQ .

    Shoving these kids in the classroom saves districts money because the sped teacher is no longer needed.

    I’m perfectly willing to work with these kids. Its the studious, hard working kid with a 4.0 gpa that gets stuck sitting next to a kid who literally may bite her that bugs me.

    Imagine how much the culture of the classroom changes when half the class plays by a total different set of rules while 1/3 of the kids have severe cognitive issues.

    Our union is too defanged to do shit about it.

    My kid is going to private school because of this if I can afford it.

  • 72. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 3, 2011 at 8:01 pm

    Rutherford,

    Since Obama has now invoked a legislative partnership with God to help pass legislation for the second time in his term of office, and the chief spokestool thought he was quoting from the Bible at a presser, and I haven’t read where you mocked them for it, can we get an apology for mocking other political figures for having admitted to praying for guidance, or is this God thing only ok when a Democrat does it?

  • 73. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 3, 2011 at 8:08 pm

    Contrary to the skepticism of a few of our resident lawyers, lawyers are feasting on this situation. I can back it up and will this weekend.

    “Mainstreaming” isn’t a goal in my kids’ school for purposes of getting rid of special ed.

    On the contrary, they have quite a robust special education program. My oldest has an IEP, which largely addresses his difficulty in writing, since kids with Aspergers tend to have abysmal fine motor skills. Writing is actually painful for him. That said, he has never been “non-mainstreamed”, and his teacher informed us that his vocabulary and reading scores are actually at a high school level. Not bad for a 6th grader. I just wish he was better at math.

    However, his little brother’s sensory and speech issues made a mainstream classroom a no-go for the time being. He still tests very well, especially for his age, but large groups stress him to no end, and when that happens…well, it isn’t pretty.

    Why am I telling you this? Because I am an attorney, and I actually RESISTED the IEP and the separate program, until I came to realize that it was best for ALL involved.

  • 74. dead rabbit  |  November 3, 2011 at 8:21 pm

    In my district, your youngest would be in my classroom (when he gets to H.S.), to his own detriment (if his challenges remain the same).

    They don’t even have a self contained option for the lad anymore.

    I should have pointed this out. Often times, the special education kids are the victims in this situation too.

    If you ever visit Michigan, and can keep my identity a secret, you are invited to spend the day with me to see it all for yourself.

    There has been a sea change over the last two years.

  • 75. dead rabbit  |  November 3, 2011 at 8:29 pm

    “Mainstreaming” isn’t a goal in my kids’ school for purposes of getting rid of special ed.”

    Yeah, they told us that too. And for a few years, they upheld that stance.

    It was cool to see kids who normally would have been tucked a way in some resource room get the same education as everyone else with only a few common sense accommodations.

    What a change I’ve seen….

    It makes perfect sense. There is every logistical and financial incentive for them to abuse the team teaching mainstream model.

    Its coming to a theater near you.

  • 76. dead rabbit  |  November 3, 2011 at 8:33 pm

    Let me put it this way, they put way more special ed kids in my mainstream room then can legally be in a self contained room!

    Think about how nuts that is.

  • 77. poolman  |  November 3, 2011 at 8:36 pm

    The Occupy movement, like any other “anti-establishment” group has been infiltrated by posers. The black bloc are agent provocateurs. Their actions have been well-documented over the past decade. They are paid to infiltrate and incite violence so the media can present the whole movement as violent and justify aggressive police actions. It is an old tactic used by our own alphabet agencies directed by the elite. You will find them at all these events. Because of them protesters often get hurt, arrested, gassed, and in some cases delegated to “free speech zones”. These reactions are used, among other measures, and are designed to control free speech and assembly.

    Here’s some footage of them operating in Oakland yesterday.

    Educate yourself. Don’t be such a bleating heart. :grin:

  • 78. Tex Taylor  |  November 3, 2011 at 8:56 pm

    The black bloc are agent provocateurs.

    :lol: :lol:

    Now there are conspiracies within the conspiracies. How do you function?

  • 79. Tex Taylor  |  November 3, 2011 at 8:59 pm

    Why aren’t you outraged that SEIU, the steelworker’s union, and MoveOndotOrg are funding this bullshit Brick? This is George Soros’ big wish.

    You’re cup of tea, Brick.

  • 80. Tex Taylor  |  November 3, 2011 at 9:13 pm

    Let me give you an example Rabbit why I am no longer a fan of public education. This is certainly not to diss good teachers like you, but to show you what really drives public education – and it ain’t the kids.

    Oklahoma’s Congress passed a bill called the Lindsey Nicole Henry Scholarship. The bill allows any student with a disability whose parents are unhappy with their assigned public school are eligible to participate. The voucher is worth the state and local dollars spent on the child in his or her public school or private school tuition and fees, whichever is less.

    Seems that didn’t make the Tulsa satellite school boards happy, though they have admitted they aren’t equipped to handle situations like yours. So what did the Superintendents of two of the most powerful schools in the state do to accommodate the parent’s wishes?

    Jenks Public Schools and Union Pubic Schools filed a lawsuit targeting the parents of special-needs children.

    http://www.newson6.com/story/13894710/important-decisions-on-two-tulsa-county-school-board-agendas-monday?redirected=true

    Great folks…

    That was the final straw for me. I will no longer support any higher taxes, school bond issues, or anything supportive of public schools until things are dramatically changed.

  • 81. Tex Taylor  |  November 3, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    Gawd, I do love to watch stupid, thieving people busted. Kudos to Steve Kraft for having the guts to take this lying dog to task – she’s gotten a free ride for her thieving for way too long. Nancy Pelosi is a disgrace, but a poster child for exactly why Pinko Progs are ruining this country.

    http://www.breitbart.tv/60-minutes-ambushes-nancy-pelosi/

  • 83. dead rabbit  |  November 3, 2011 at 10:08 pm

    If the school board was smart, they would see the scholarship as a blessing in disguise.

    So, they break even on the money and lose one kid on count day. But that one kid is taking up the resources of 5 or 6 kids without an IEP. Odds are he is a major disruption, as well.

    Hell, the school board should thank their lucky stars they aren’t being sued.

    I don’t say these things in a derogatory tone.

    The only problem I have with it if the public school is already a school of choice. What I mean by this is that the parents could willy nilly pick a school that pays. Doesn’t seem fair.

    School of choice is a great thing by the way.

  • 84. dead rabbit  |  November 3, 2011 at 10:11 pm

    Tex, do you vote for school board members?

  • 85. dead rabbit  |  November 3, 2011 at 10:25 pm

    BiC,

    Do you ever go to school board meetings?

    If so, ask them what special ed ratio is at the high school in classes that our team taught. Also ask them what the self contained options are for each subject/class.

    The scheduling difficulties and size of a normal high school put much more pressure on the inclusion model, particularly in a climate of job cutting.

  • 86. Tex Taylor  |  November 3, 2011 at 11:08 pm

    Tex, do you vote for school board members?

    Yes. But nobody of sound mind would want to be on one. Talk about thankless jobs.

    So most of the people that do run are the busy bodies and malicious gossips – or bullying bastards. Sounds like our politicians. :smile:

  • 87. huckingfypocrites  |  November 3, 2011 at 11:39 pm

    So if the rapists and anarchists and poopers and pissers and anyone who makes OWS look or smell bad are not part of the 99%….and are clearly not part of the elite ruling 1%….shouldn’t the 99% change their name to something like the 97%?

    I mean…1% + 99% = 100% There’s not a lot of gray area in that.

    If there are going to be more than those 2 variables, then the numbers just don’t add up…

  • 88. huckingfypocrites  |  November 3, 2011 at 11:43 pm

    “But nobody of sound mind would want to be on one. Talk about thankless jobs.”

    That ain’t no shit.

    I go to school board meetings fairly regularly, and thankless is a great description. I got asked to run for a vacant seat a couple years ago, and considered it for a while. But I finally decided that if I want to have another heart attack there are better ways to go about it than entering into small town local politics.

  • 89. Tex Taylor  |  November 3, 2011 at 11:53 pm

    But I finally decided that if I want to have another heart attack there are better ways to go about it than entering into small town local politics.

    :lol: Ah, if it makes any of you feel better, there are a bunch of asshole parents even in these “high society” private schools. And one of the administrators and I had a heated exchange of words one day in his office when they called me to the school for my oldest daughter’s skirt being “too short.”

    Damn school uniform, and I came up there one May afternoon (they wouldn’t let her drive home) and found her behind a glass door, on her knees with some bimbo measuring how much of her thigh was exposed. I asked the idiot if anyone had given consideration that she had grown since September?

    I walked in, saw my oldest eyes were red from crying and she’s not a weepy one, and went absolutely ballistic. And I do mean ballistic. After that, though my daughter one of the three best students in the entire grade, and an all state athlete, she didn’t even get nominated for student athlete of the year. It was such a joke and so political, even the kids noticed it. Pure politics to punish the parent.

    The girl who won the award, my daughter tutored in calculus and chemistry. :roll:

  • 90. Tex Taylor  |  November 3, 2011 at 11:56 pm

    Hey Brotha Rutherford. I was bored as hell tonight and went snooping on you. Your daughter is cute as a button. I won’t give away your secrets (if you’ll vote against Obama). :twisted:

    She looks like a Jackson kid. Can she dance or sing? :smile:

  • 91. Tex Taylor  |  November 3, 2011 at 11:58 pm

    Pretty name too. Ironically, since you and I were both laughing about our first names “R” (yours biblical ironically), we came very close to naming our youngest the same.

    Too bad we can’t meet up. I owe you a soft drink. I guess one way or another, you’ll be a $100.00 richer next November.

  • 92. huckingfypocrites  |  November 4, 2011 at 12:01 am

    About 10 years ago the superintendent was held hostage at gunpoint by a disgruntled parent.

    We’ve had another superintendent who we found out made it a habit of using the HS workout equipment and then showering in the presence of the kids.

    And our entire board recently had to go before a grand jury to deal with an attempt to defraud the state gov. by purposely spending more than they had in order to qualify for a hardship status.

    I just don’t need that kind of excitement in my life…lol

  • 93. poolman  |  November 4, 2011 at 12:15 am

    Unfortunately, the 99 percent will include a lot of riff raff. The MSM will exploit them. Most of the posters here will vilify them.

    But the black bloc, which were inciting the violence and painting graffiti are agent provocateurs. They are using the label “anarchist” to descibe themselves and that is the same sound bite the media and cops have been instructed to use. Get used to it. It is probably the new “terrorist”. The establishment will have to discredit the entire movement in order to try to shut it down.

    So some of these vandals may be part of the 99 percent, but are working for the 1 percent, which in reality is less than one tenth of one percent.

    There is a history of violence between cops and citizens in Oakland and there are factions in that city that will pitch in with those that are inciting it. You see a lot of “kill cops” language and attitude. Racial tensions abound.

    The car/pedestrian incident was well documented on video. The cops let the driver go, which really angered the crowd, after he deliberately accelerated into a protester.

    The GA, or main occupy “organization” tried to stop the vandals and did not participate in the destruction. That is obvious in video and the notes they left where damage was done. Many were helping to remove the graffiti today.

    http://blogs.kqed.org/newsfix/2011/11/03/occupy-oakland-update/

  • 94. huckingfypocrites  |  November 4, 2011 at 12:33 am

    I watched a lot of last night’s Oakland action on Livestream. It was fascinating.

    I started watching about 9:00 my time. I was watching an overhead feed via MSM chopper that was following the usual groups wandering the streets. That’s a pretty regular scene I have witnessed.

    By about 10:00 or so they started gathering outside a building that I guess had been foreclosed and they decided to “occupy” it. Then the group started making barricades to block off the street accesses to the building. At that point I knew it wasn’t going to end well.

    At 1 point, the overhead chopper panned miles to the left of the screen and showed a line of about 20+ cop cars with lights on going the other direction, which was kind of strange.

    I can’t say who “started it” last night. I could hear the sounds of gunfire (LTL weapons) and flashbang explosions quite clearly. I didn’t hear any pre-emptive warning that chemical agents (tear gas, etc) were going to be used, which I understand is protocol (?). For the narrow view I was getting, I didn’t see the protesters begin engaging the police. But their actions certainly warranted police presence.

    Once the action started, so did the response. I did see people throwing stuff. But there were also a lot of people in the crowd telling them to stop. The fires, I understand, were set because they supposedly help dissipate tear gas smoke, or something. They were claiming some tactical reason for them, not just to burn stuff.

    I am somewhat sympathetic to the urge to protest. But that aside, from a social science perspective from someone studying socio-political movements and contentious politics, these are awesome times we are living in. Between the Occupiers and the Arab Spring we have case studies for years.

  • 95. poolman  |  November 4, 2011 at 12:39 am

    I guess the “rapists and anarchists and poopers and pissers” needed some company. Since Iraq veteran Scott Olsen was injured in Oakland last week, military support of the movement has really kicked in. And because the active duty troops aren’t allowed to participate, don’t make the mistake to think plenty don’t sympathize.

    NEW YORK — Thousands of military veterans are heeding the rallying cry of Occupy Wall Street, saying corporate contractors in Iraq made big money while the troops defending them came home — and can’t make a living now.

    “For too long, our voices have been silenced, suppressed and ignored in favor of the voices of Wall Street and the banks and the corporations,” said Joseph Carter, a 27-year-old Iraq war veteran who marched Wednesday to Zuccotti Park, the epicenter of the movement that has spread worldwide.

    The former Army sergeant from Seattle spoke to fellow Occupy protesters and passersby on Broadway after joining about 100 veterans marching in uniform from the Vietnam Veterans Plaza through Manhattan’s financial district nearby.

    http://militarytimes.com/news/2011/11/ap-veterans-lend-influence-to-occupy-movement-110311/

  • 96. Tex Taylor  |  November 4, 2011 at 1:05 am

    I could make the same kind of argument you’re making Pool Brick, playing by your rules about military support, but I’ll bet Gorilla would do it more effectively.

    Just like any large organizations, the military has its share of disgruntled Vets. Your pal Stonehead whatever is one of them.

    But I speak with a great deal of confidence in stating a majority of those goons you see at any OWS, any soldier worth his salt would loathe. Most of this isn’t a shot across the bow of Wall Street. It’s outright American hating.

  • 97. poolman  |  November 4, 2011 at 1:32 am

  • 98. huckingfypocrites  |  November 4, 2011 at 1:41 am

    Shit keeps going like it is in Oakland and we might be seeing what the National Guard thinks of them….

  • 99. huckingfypocrites  |  November 4, 2011 at 1:47 am

    “Look folks, this ain’t rocket science. If for every tax hike you have a corresponding effort by creative attorneys and accountants to evade the tax hike, then you’ve wasted your effort. The simple truth is that by closing loopholes, you automatically bring in more revenue without ever raising taxes one cent.”

    This is a big part of what Laffer was talking about.

    We’ve only been telling you about him for 3 years, now. Good to see you finally catching on….

  • 100. an800lbgorilla  |  November 4, 2011 at 5:27 am

    The real agent provocateurs…

    (Fox News) — Officials with the revamped ACORN office in New York — operating as New York Communities for Change — have fired staff, shredded reams of documents and told workers to blame disgruntled ex-employees for leaking information in an effort to explain away a FoxNews.com report last week on the group’s involvement in Occupy Wall Street protests, according to sources.

    NYCC also is installing surveillance cameras and recording devices at its Brooklyn offices, removing or packing away supplies bearing the name ACORN and handing out photos of Fox News staff with a stern warning not to talk to the media, the sources said.

    “They’re doing serious damage control right now,” said an NYCC source.

    NYCC Executive Director Jon Kest has been calling a series of emergency meetings to discuss last week’s report—and taking extreme measures to identify the sources in their office and to prevent further damage, a source within NYCC told FoxNews.com.

    Two staffers were fired after NYCC officials suspected them as the source of the leaks, a source told FoxNews.com. “One was fired the day the story came out, the other was fired on Friday. (NYCC senior staff) told everyone that they were fired because they talked to you,” a source said.

    NYCC spokesman Scott Levenson denied that anyone was fired for talking to the press.

    FoxNews.com’s report identified NYCC as a key organizing force behind the Occupy Wall Street protests. Sources within the group also told FoxNews.com NYCC was hiring people to carry signs and join the protests. NYCC — a nonprofit organization run almost entirely by former ACORN officials and employees –did not reply for comment prior to the publication of the initial article, but later posted a statement on its website dismissing the article and denying that it pays protesters.

  • 101. an800lbgorilla  |  November 4, 2011 at 6:15 am

    WOW G, your mini-treatise will take a few re-reads for me to completely grok.

    I’m just gonna throw a couple of ideas out there.

    First, if I understand “right to work” correctly, it makes union membership optional. Is that correct? If so, I’m all for it. No worker should be forced to join a union.

    Second, I’ve long held the belief that people charged with preservation of public safety (police, fire fighters, air traffic controllers) should not have the option to strike. How they ensure fair treatment when they don’t have the threat of strike in their back pocket is beyond me. But I just don’t like the idea of their striking.

    When it comes to teachers, are you therefore suggesting that teachers unions COULD or SHOULD exist at private schools? Clearly in a private school, the teacher does not serve at the will of the public.

    That said, I’m still lost on how folks serving in the public sector ensure equitable treatment if they are not allowed to organize.” – R

    Yes, Right-to-work means that you cannot be forced to join a union to work a job.

    Some places, like Indiana, are working to get close to right-to-work status:

    Union chiefs like Mr. Parrett know what that means for their political clout. After taking office in 2005, Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels used an executive order to end collective bargaining for public workers—a power granted by former Governor Evan Bayh.

    The number of state public employees has since fallen to 28,700 from 35,000. But more important, the vast majority of those employees stopped paying union dues. Today, 1,490 state employees pay union dues in Indiana, down from 16,408 in 2005. Similar declines have played out in Washington State and Utah, when those states gave members the freedom to choose.

    This is the prospect that has Wisconsin labor leaders so furious these days—furious enough that they’ll even threaten the livelihoods of local business owners who won’t join them at the barricades. This is the nasty modern reality of government union power.

    Union membership nationally has declined. The only place that it has seen an increase is in public employee unions.

    This is more of a philosophical question, but how can a public servant argue that they are being treated unfairly? What part of “servant” is not clear? Tigre pointed it out, we’ve shown several times how government workers consistently out strip private employees in both pay and benefits- so where is the unfair treatment? Do you have any idea how hard it is to remove a government employee for poor performance? Damn near impossible, which is why most government employees who lose their jobs are usually let go for time card violations.

    Since I’m not in favor of teacher unions in public school, I’m obviously not a proponent of them in private school. But you question was should they exist in private school, and I would say that yeah, if teachers so choose to unionize in private school, then I would be fine with it- but not in public school. Private school is a business, public school is a government function; this is a critical difference.

  • 102. El Tigre  |  November 4, 2011 at 9:54 am

    “Contrary to the skepticism of a few of our resident lawyers, lawyers are feasting on this situation. I can back it up and will this weekend.”

    Rabbit, don’t keep it a damn secret. If I can make fortune feasting on lawsuits against teachers, I want to know who and what to sue over. Since you guys claim not to make much money, where are the bucks? Show me.

  • 103. Rutherford  |  November 4, 2011 at 11:35 am

    I bet Cain knows there are 50 states.

    I bet Cain knows that American DVD’s don’t work in Europe.

    I bet Cain knows how to pronounce corpsman.

    I bet Cain knows its Cinco De Mayo.

    I bet Cain doesn’t speak “Austrian”.

    You DO enjoy playing the idiot don’t you? :?

  • 104. Rutherford  |  November 4, 2011 at 11:39 am

    Since Obama has now invoked a legislative partnership with God to help pass legislation

    Pure nonsense. Obama was mocking the fact that Congress is wasting its time reaffirming “In God We Trust” when they should be getting Americans back to work.

    But you knew that already. How’s your application into Fox News going? Maybe they can schedule you after Hannity?

  • 105. poolman  |  November 4, 2011 at 11:45 am

    Fox News? Yeah, Murdoch is VERY familiar with all those underhanded tactics. Occasionally they do put out news, but you have to be willing to wade through bullshit to find it. I like when they SAY they will give you a platform, and then never provide it. :roll:

    I thought the GOP already decimated ACORN. It forced them to file bankruptcy a year ago. Did it resurrect? Are they a zombie organization? You guys are running out of “enemies” to destroy.

    And now NYCC is a threat? Another organization established to help the poor and underprivileged gets in the GOP’s gunsights, eh?

    Fox News is trying to discredit Occupy Wall Street. New York Communities for Change is a new organization that fights for low- and moderate-income families. We don’t pay protesters and any monies raised by NYCC’s canvass are used in support of our ongoing issue campaigns. Period.

    http://www.nycommunities.org/node/1124

  • 106. textaylor  |  November 4, 2011 at 11:53 am

    Hey Brick? Can you do us a favor and spare the video links with each and every post? By the time the thread hits around 300, it starts to slow dramatically.

    I know I’m guilty too, but I try not to make an embed every other time.

    ———

    FOX doesn’t need to discredit OWS. OWS is doing an outstanding job of discrediting themselves. OWS has become a caricature of what America must not become – an even bigger and more existential threat to humanity than Wall Street.

    Nice post at Clatter Kitchen. :smile: I took a good look at your reich wing comment. A real jewel. I’m glad you’re in to “research” now. It keeps you off the streets.

    You don’t know how pitiful you come off to total strangers, do you?

  • 107. poolman  |  November 4, 2011 at 11:53 am

    Pull your head out people. Only ONE person is the right choice.

  • 108. textaylor  |  November 4, 2011 at 11:55 am

    Nugget of truth I read this morning.

    On its face, the whole storyline of Obama and his support of OWS is a laugher—at least to anyone who lived through both the terrible, volatile, inflation-wracked 1970s and then the 25-year boom that followed.

  • 109. textaylor  |  November 4, 2011 at 11:57 am

    By the way Brick. I assume you and your brothers-in-arms will soon be marching on Jon Corzine’s residence?

  • 110. Rutherford  |  November 4, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    So if the rapists and anarchists and poopers and pissers and anyone who makes OWS look or smell bad are not part of the 99%….and are clearly not part of the elite ruling 1%….shouldn’t the 99% change their name to something like the 97%?

    I actually like that idea. One problem with protest movements is they spend zero time disassociating themselves from the wack jobs. Whether you want to admit it or not, this goes for TPM as well as OWS. I would have been MUCH more sympathetic to the TPM if I saw spokespeople on TV saying “we repudiate the stupid signs and the folks bringing their guns to the rallies. That’s not what we’re about.” But it didn’t happen.

    Similarly, the OWS movement is getting slowly but surely disrupted by assh*les and I don’t see anyone dismissing them. It’s a problem.

  • 111. Rutherford  |  November 4, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    Your daughter is cute as a button.

    Well, thanks Tex. (Mmmmm, maybe I better review that Facebook security? ;-) )

    Her major extracurricular activity is gymnastics. But at the last neighborhood shindig she did grab the mic and start singing. She’s truly a piece of work … a constant blessing and torment combined into one. :-)

  • 112. Rutherford  |  November 4, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    Too bad we can’t meet up.

    Never say never. Stranger things have happened.

  • 113. Rutherford  |  November 4, 2011 at 12:14 pm

    made it a habit of using the HS workout equipment and then showering in the presence of the kids.

    All together now …. EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!

  • 114. poolman  |  November 4, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    I get a kick out of Tex. He’s now my favorite CINO. He is so wrong so often, you can almost use him as a constant to gauge truth. I think I’ll put together a list of Texisms. If I can find enough, maybe it will make a decent coffee table publication. :smile:

    http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2011/11/02/police-infiltrators-agent-provocateurs-occupy-oakland-documented-fact-79921/

  • 115. Rutherford  |  November 4, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    Holy cow …. at the 1:09 point in Poolman’s Ron Paul video, there was my long lost son BJ Lawson!! I wondered what ever became of him. He disowned me cos of my politics!

    Poolman thank you for helping me find my long lost boy!!!!
    :lol: :lol:

  • 116. Rutherford  |  November 4, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    I assume you and your brothers-in-arms will soon be marching on Jon Corzine’s residence?

    Why kick a man when he’s down? :-) Though I would like to get my hands on that multimillion dollar parachute he got.

  • 117. Rutherford  |  November 4, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    He’s now my favorite CINO.

    Poolman, if you mean conservative in name only, then you’ve got Tex pegged all wrong. He’s the real deal. Not a liberal bone in the man’s body.

    On another note, if I can just forgive Ron Paul his past racial indiscretions, I might have to go whole hog for the man. Every time he talks foreign policy, my heart beats a bit faster.

    Bring our boys home and mind our own f*cking business!!!!

  • 118. poolman  |  November 4, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    FOX doesn’t need to discredit OWS.

    They are making an all-out effort to do so. But there will be retaliation.

    “Operation Foxhunt” will begin tomorrow, 11-5-11, spurred on by anonymous. We will see how that plays out. :wink:

  • 119. poolman  |  November 4, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    Poolman, if you mean conservative in name only, then you’ve got Tex pegged all wrong.

    CINO can also denote “Christian in name only.”

    I guess Ghandi said it best. We are all familiar with his quote.

    The Word tells us we will KNOW who the true believers by their LOVE, one for another. It’s a LOVE thing. John Lennon was much closer to being there than many today who profess the “faith”.

    Aside from Mickey his pet dog, I haven’t seen much evidence this past year to support his claim. :neutral:

  • 120. poolman  |  November 4, 2011 at 1:19 pm

    Poolman thank you for helping me find my long lost boy!!!!

    You’re welcome. And a fine upstanding young man he has become. Maybe you should take his advice for your political choice. :grin:

  • 121. Rutherford  |  November 4, 2011 at 1:35 pm

    Aside from Mickey his pet dog, I haven’t seen much evidence this past year to support his claim. :neutral:

    Now that’s a wee bit unfair. Tex would die for his wife and kids. Of that I’m sure.

  • 122. poolman  |  November 4, 2011 at 1:41 pm

    if I can just forgive Ron Paul his past racial indiscretions,

  • 124. poolman  |  November 4, 2011 at 2:17 pm

    Is everyone aware that our tax money helps support terrorism in the Western hemisphere through this dictator school? I think it is something we should nix. Talk about your “state sponsored” terrorism! Pot meet kettle.

    http://www.soaw.org/take-action/november-vigil

  • 125. Tex Taylor  |  November 4, 2011 at 2:24 pm

    Yeah Poolman. I saw that love of yours over at Chatty Kitchen – all that Reich wing love. I would point out to all here your many shortcomings about your claims to grace and faith, but I think everyone’s about figured that much out from the conclusions you draw. Jim Jones Jr..

    Listen up Brick. I love Rutherford (in a manly kind of way). I like most of the people here. I loathe you, the Pharisee. I think you’re the phoniest kind of punk, and putrid to boot. You can quote scripture all you like, and it won’t change my mind.

    As for Ghandi, he drank his own piss and is far different that the one portrayed in the movie. A country where many of its citizens are considered so unclean that their mere touch can contaminate a member of a higher caste. Ghandi’s own country was and still is hell on earth. Doesn’t look to blessed to me. America has been, and you don’t say a nice thing about her.

    You want to know the real Ghandi, Brick? Here, learn something for once.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703529004576160371482469358.html?mod=djemEditorialPage_h

    As for Ghandi’s famous quote that the neopagans know better than the Gospels, Ghandi also denied Christ was the messiah. I don’t. I’m not terribly worried about what Mr. Ghandi would have thought of me.

    So next time you want to throw Ghandi up to someone, think about two things. How you portray yourself as some kind of learned saint :twisted:, and remember Hitler, a man Ghandi claimed “friend”, regarded Christ too – even planned a 1,000 year Reich reign for His church, while persecuting the church.

    Your historical references are as miserable as your existence, Brick.

  • 126. dead rabbit  |  November 4, 2011 at 2:29 pm

    Tigre,

    I want to take my time and get it right. I’m waiting on some info.

    All I ask is I get a cut when you launch blitzkrieg on the teachers. :)

    As for the “you” teacher stuff, cut it out. I’ve never once complained about my pay. In fact, I’ve come on here and said the opposite when I hear the violins come out over such matters.

  • 127. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 4, 2011 at 3:26 pm

    i>Pure nonsense. Obama was mocking the fact that Congress is wasting its time reaffirming “In God We Trust” when they should be getting Americans back to work.

    Sure he was…just like that phone call with the rabbis over health care…

    And it was so “mocking” that his spokestool offered up a really bad answer (but serious) answer when he was asked about it.

  • 128. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 4, 2011 at 3:36 pm

    The Word tells us we will KNOW who the true believers by their LOVE, one for another.

    Let me guess….The Rob Bell Translation™, right?

  • 129. Tex Taylor  |  November 4, 2011 at 3:44 pm

    Let me guess….The Rob Bell Translation™, right?

    Ew. Excellent answer. I wished I had thought of that. Pacifism the highest calling – and just about everyone going to heaven.

    Carlton Pearson style.

  • 130. Rutherford  |  November 4, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    Now I may be thick but I could’ve sworn that Andrew Roberts (in the link Tex posted) says that Gandhi was gay. Dag, never heard that before!

    Back in the day I had an operations shift leader of Indian birth who would start to lecture me about America. I told him to save it until he could justify the caste system in his own motherland.

  • 131. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 4, 2011 at 4:22 pm

    Whenever Canadians would do it to me, I’d ask them how those Meech Lake Accords were coming, or if they tried to drive across a Mohawk reservation recently.

    They’d usually stop, swallow, and talk about hockey or the weather.

  • 132. poolman  |  November 4, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    A country where many of its citizens are considered so unclean that their mere touch can contaminate a member of a higher caste

    How Leviticus-like of them. :lol: oh goy, just like your precious Jooos.

    I never claimed that Ghandi was a saint or even close to resembling a Christian. There are plenty of sources that document his “sins”.

    The point (which you continually miss in your zeal to condemn), is the famous quote of Ghandi’s referring to Christ and Christians. Regardless of his character, the quote has struck a chord with many noting the hypocrisy of today’s church.

  • 133. poolman  |  November 4, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    Let me guess….The Rob Bell Translation™, right?

    Pull up any translation of John 13:35 you want. Even your own conservative version hasn’t removed it – yet.

    http://conservapedia.com/John_8-14_(Translated)#Chapter_13

  • 134. Tex Taylor  |  November 4, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    Oh goy, just like your precious Jooos.

    Like Jesus?

    The point (which you continually miss in your zeal to condemn), is the famous quote of Ghandi’s referring to Christ and Christians. Regardless of his character, the quote has struck a chord with many noting the hypocrisy of today’s church.

    It does nothing of the sort, and I missed nothing Brick, because half of my answer to your ignorant retort was with respect to Ghandi’s quote.

    All the quote does for anybody with an ounce of knowledge is demonstrate Ghandi’s hypocrisy and shallowness, and the duplicity of the people that try to use the quote like a club. The church isn’t for saints – it’s for sinners. Or had you forgotten that?

    So how are you demonstrating your precious love, Brick? Is it your allegations of conspiracy and coverup, your accusations of Jooos behind every murder and Bush and Co. killing the citizens, your slander from ill repute blogs, your befriending the abortionists at Chatty Kitchen who tried to damage our blog host, or your profound hatred for America in conjunction with white separatist sites you link?

    You Brick are a very confused and man and fool. Nothing more.

  • 135. poolman  |  November 4, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    Like Jesus?

    Jesus was much more critical of Jews than I have been. He harassed them so much, they eventually killed him. I guess you are not too familiar with His earthly life. From birth, it was entirely spent side-stepping their (the Jooos) attempts to destroy Him. His family fled to Egypt to avoid Herod (a Jewish king) killing Him. Then when he was old enough to debate them in their own house of worship, they continually tried to shut him up and trap him in his words, while constantly threatening to kill him.

    Ever hear of the “Synagogue of Satan”? SOS? Probably not. But those very words actually appear in the Bible more than once, and are always directed at your precious man gods.

    Try finding the word Zionist or Zionism. You can’t. Just one of the dozens of “points” you’ve conveniently avoided.

    The fact that YOU see me as a fool actually gives me some comfort.

    Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a “fool” so that he may become wise.

    The Word often differentiates between the “hearers” and the “doers”. I’ll call these CINOs. Kind of “Cheney-like” in example.

  • 136. Tex Taylor  |  November 4, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    You do nothing. You attempt to purposely create confusion and strife, and you’re not terribly effective with it here. I see absolutely nothing edifying about you. Nothing. Please demonstrate your own personal testimony through your own works, if that is the identifying equation Poolman – and leeching off the system doesn’t count for much in the kingdom. Learn the 8th commandment. Only Chatty Kitchen geniuses could verify there. They are your intellectual equivalent. I wouldn’t doubt you’re related to hare brained Grandma Jean. Shalom.

    Herod posed as Jewish; learn your history. Herod the Great’s plans for the succession had to be ratified by Augustus – not the Jews. His son Antipas was a Roman stooge, who had John the Baptist beheaded. Kind of a George Soros of antiquity. Sounds like your kind of Jew, Brick.

    All men are responsible for Christ’s death – that includes you. If Christ had wanted, not only could He have prevented His own execution, He could have blinked the Pharisees out of existence. When the veil was torn, He in effect did. Learn your theology.

    The word Zion idiot is in the Bible numerous times. The very word Christian is just mentioned three times in the New Testament, of which the first were all “JEWISH”. The fact we use the word Zionist to refer to Jews of Zion (being Israel) changes nothing. The word Trinity is not found in the Bible either, but you don’t seem to have a problem reconciling that in your pea-sized brain.

    Just admit it Jew hater, Islam lover. You’re Mohammad’s boy.

    And as far as your piety or preaching, spare us. You’re straight out of the bowels of hell. You must have been one of Satan’s rejects and somehow slipped out of the mass production unnoticed.

    You’re one of stupidest people I’ve ever read. And when you are right, which isn’t often, say like the Fed, it’s by accident.

    But consider that comfort you gain my “love” shown toward you Brick.

    Now shoo on back to your Chatty Kitchen, where you can converse with the Planned Parenthood crowd and demonstrate your magnanimous nature.

  • 137. dead rabbit  |  November 4, 2011 at 6:11 pm

    Holy shit….my son is covered….COVERED…head to toe in shit.

    FUCK!!!!!!

    What do I do?????????

    There is shit every where in his room….his crib is is smeared in it!
    FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    He’s sitting happy as a lark smeared in shit….his room is……NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

  • 138. Rutherford  |  November 4, 2011 at 6:17 pm

    Kind of a George Soros of antiquity.

    Even in a discussion of religion, Tex manages to get a liberal smack in. That’s why I love him so (in a manly sort of way). :-)

  • 139. Rutherford  |  November 4, 2011 at 6:20 pm

    LOL :lol: Reminds me of one time when my wife returned home from running an errand and found me buried in crap trying to change my daughter’s diaper.

    Shouldn’t the Young Rabbit be on the verge of toilet training soon? I’ve lost track, is he 2 or 3 now?

  • 140. poolman  |  November 4, 2011 at 6:21 pm

    Funny as hell, rabbit! :lol:

    I remember one Sunday my wife and I were staying in bed late. My eldest was in her crib in her room. We could hear her amusing herself with crib toys as we lingered lazily, not wanting to get out of bed just yet.

    Then we started to smell this horrible shit. My wife bolted up out of bed and went into the room and just screamed. It was a blood-curdling scream. I jumped up and ran in there only to see my baby covered in her own shit. She was reaching in her diaper and “painting” everything within reach. The toys, the crib, the wall…

    It is funny as hell, now. When it happened, it was just disgusting.

  • 141. poolman  |  November 4, 2011 at 6:35 pm

    Even in a discussion of religion, Tex manages to get a liberal smack in.

    He IS consistent. I think my coffee table compilation will speak volumes. :grin: The world according to Tex. Next to Gary Larson’s contribution, I think it will provide many hours of good giggle.

  • 142. poolman  |  November 4, 2011 at 6:50 pm

    :smile: It appears they will even compliment each other. :grin:

  • 143. Raji  |  November 4, 2011 at 7:50 pm

    Comment # 11
    Dontcha love how when I write something that doesn’t particularly offend the regulars, the conversation immediately deteriorates to commercials for Advil?
    “Aleve” :lol: :lol:

    I’ll get back to the topic when I stop laughing! Me I live on Advil but then I’ve got full blown OA, bad hip, etc but won’t take any other drugs although I’m a 8 daily but still run a farm. ;-)

    Good topic though Rutherford and will have to put some thought into it.

  • 144. huckingfypocrites  |  November 4, 2011 at 8:24 pm

    “What do I do?????????”

    Well, whatever you do, it MUST start with a camera….

  • 145. huckingfypocrites  |  November 4, 2011 at 8:25 pm

    I will also point out the irony in posting a “my kid is covered in shit” comment in a thread entitled “You Cannot Fill A Leaky Bucket.”
    :)

  • 146. an800lbgorilla  |  November 4, 2011 at 9:05 pm

    I’d say get a hose and a strong shot of something that’s gonna burn nose hair…

  • 147. dead rabbit  |  November 4, 2011 at 9:55 pm

    Well boys, I proud to say I’m the father of a future corporate big wig.

    My son fed shit to everyone of his stuffed animals. Animals without a mouth have shit smeared on their face. Animals with mouths have turds in their pie holes. Well, I can’t forget the beak. Big bird had a turd deep in his gizzard.

    Motherfucker woke up and decided he’s going to make everyone of those stupid fucking dolls eat shit.

    Apparently, when he ran out of stuffed animals, he decided to throw shit all over the entire room.

    If you are still even reading this, you may be wondering, “how much shit can it be”?

    More shit then Boss Hog could produce.

    Rutherford, he turned 2 in September. I was hoping he’d be farther along in potty training.

  • 148. dead rabbit  |  November 4, 2011 at 9:56 pm

    “I’d say get a hose and a strong shot of something that’s gonna burn nose hair…”

    that made me spit my beer out for some reason.

  • 149. Rutherford  |  November 5, 2011 at 12:38 am

    LOL Rabbit have you been letting little B look at those pictures of OWS folks crapping on police cars? Sounds like the dude is ready for protest!! :lol:

  • 150. Tex Taylor  |  November 5, 2011 at 1:27 am

    Traders From Chicago Board Of Trade Dump McDonald’s Applications On Occupy Chicago Protesters
    :lol: The proper response to OWS! :lol:

    http://www.mediaite.com/online/traders-from-chicago-board-of-trade-dump-mcdonalds-applications-on-occupy-chicago-protesters/

  • 151. thorsaurus  |  November 5, 2011 at 2:58 am

    Rabbit, sounds like you need a shit load of these guys and some Tequila. ;)

  • 152. poolman  |  November 5, 2011 at 11:09 am

    “Barack Obama criticizes bankers as ‘fat cats’, then invites them to dine at a pricey New York restaurant…. The President has raised more money from banks, hedge funds, and private equity managers than any Republican candidate, including Mitt Romney. Let’s name it for what it is… Our politicians are little more than money launderers in the trafficking of power and policy – fewer than six degrees of separation from the spirit and tactics of Tony Soprano. Why New York’s Zuccotti Park is occupied is no mystery. Reporters keep scratching their heads and asking: ‘Why are you here?’ But it’s as clear as the crash of 2008. They are occupying Wall Street because Wall Street has occupied America.”

  • 153. poolman  |  November 5, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    100,000?
    Ahhhh, yes, liberal math…

    :cool: And liberal video, too…

    An Oakland insider’s perspective of the protest. Interesting.

  • 154. huckingfypocrites  |  November 5, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    “Barack Obama criticizes bankers as ‘fat cats’, then invites them to dine at a pricey New York restaurant…. The President has raised more money from banks, hedge funds, and private equity managers than any Republican candidate, including Mitt Romney.”

    And yet Poolman and Rutherford will still vote for him when he time comes.

  • 155. Tex Taylor  |  November 5, 2011 at 2:09 pm

    Had something last night happen I had never experienced before. We had an earthquake – second largest in Oklahoma history. Enough to wake up my wife. Shook the house.

    The funny part is that we had just put the bed together last night after some house work, and I thought when it happened, that we didn’t get the bed right into the frame, because when I laid down on it last night going to bed, it fell about an inch. :lol:

    We didn’t even know what had happened until about an hour ago.

    So far this year, we’ve had record cold, record snow fall, record heat, record number of tornadoes, record floods, and record drought – all in one year. I think this earthquake about covers all the bases, unless somehow a hurricane works its way up the coast.

  • 156. Rutherford  |  November 5, 2011 at 2:40 pm

    Hey Tex forget climate change. How bout Mother Nature having gone batsh*t crazy? Not scientific but seems true enough.

  • 157. Alfie  |  November 5, 2011 at 3:06 pm

    So Rutherford on a solutions kind of thing… what ya got?

  • 158. Alfie  |  November 5, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    just in case its obligatory for the thread…I don’t use Advil

  • 159. Tex Taylor  |  November 5, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    just in case its obligatory for the thread…I don’t use Advil

    Me neither. Strictly an Aleve/aspirin guy. :wink:

  • 160. an800lbgorilla  |  November 5, 2011 at 6:40 pm

    Well boys, I proud to say I’m the father of a future corporate big wig.” – DR

    Corporate big wigs my ass. Hate to break the bad news, but you’ve got a Dem for a child.

    I’m sorry.

    P.S. Hope it wasn’t good beer!

  • 161. an800lbgorilla  |  November 5, 2011 at 6:41 pm

    When does the next episode of The Runt and the Cunt come on?

  • 162. Rutherford  |  November 5, 2011 at 7:09 pm

    I’ll try to ignore the nickname for the show and just answer:

    Every Sunday night 11:00pm EST

  • 163. an800lbgorilla  |  November 5, 2011 at 7:14 pm

    So R, 4000+ arrests in the OWS movement thus far. How’s that soak your beans?

  • 164. dead rabbit  |  November 5, 2011 at 7:15 pm

    ” Hate to break the bad news, but you’ve got a Dem for a child.”

    I brought him into this world, I can take him out.

  • 165. Rutherford  |  November 5, 2011 at 7:25 pm

    So Rutherford on a solutions kind of thing… what ya got?

    In the words of the 44th President of the United States, it’s above my pay grade. :-)

    Here are some ideas in no particular order:

    Reinstate Glass Steagal.
    Completely revamp the tax code, making it as simple as possible, including the elimination of most loopholes.
    Make the Federal Reserve accountable to Congress (I assume it is not).
    Withdraw troops from all countries with whom we do not have hostile relations.
    Commitment of troops to any future exercise may be done only with the authorization of Congress.
    All future military endeavors must be BUDGETED.
    Withdraw troops from Afghanistan, it is a lost cause.

    That’s a start. Time for dinner. ;-)

  • 166. huckingfypocrites  |  November 5, 2011 at 7:29 pm

    “Commitment of troops to any future exercise may be done only with the authorization of Congress.”

    That was the norm until your man Obama came along.

  • 167. an800lbgorilla  |  November 5, 2011 at 7:48 pm

  • 168. an800lbgorilla  |  November 5, 2011 at 7:51 pm

    Rabbit, I wish I had a nickle every time my mother told me that…

  • 169. an800lbgorilla  |  November 5, 2011 at 7:55 pm

  • 170. an800lbgorilla  |  November 5, 2011 at 8:07 pm

  • 171. an800lbgorilla  |  November 5, 2011 at 8:22 pm

  • 172. huckingfypocrites  |  November 5, 2011 at 11:50 pm

    It’s going down in Atlanta, tonight.

    http://occupystreams.org/item/occupy-wall-street-global-revolution

  • 173. poolman  |  November 6, 2011 at 12:22 am

    And yet Poolman and Rutherford will still vote for him when he time comes.

    Actually I am voting for Ron Paul. Obama would be a second choice. I don’t vote party, like most of you do. Straight party voters are sellouts. Simple fact based on definition.

    Though I do think a mainstream republican candidate would be worse for the country right now, there really has been no difference in policy whether democrats or republicans are elected. It is still corporations that benefit over people.

    At the current rate we are going, it could be martial law by then.

  • 174. Tex Taylor  |  November 6, 2011 at 12:26 am

    Though I do think a mainstream republican candidate would be worse for the country right now, there really has been no difference in policy whether democrats or republicans are elected. It is still corporations that benefit over people.

    What an idiot.

  • 175. Tex Taylor  |  November 6, 2011 at 12:29 am

    Huck,

    I’m starting to feel like California. We just got hit thirty minutes ago by an estimated 5.6 magnitude earthquake. Light damage, but the most powerful earthquake in recorded Oklahoma history. Our distance from ground zero about 75 miles, but they felt in all the way to Kansas City (about 250 miles away).

    This one actually rumbled the house – pretty scary stuff. Praying I don’t go out tomorrow and find brick laying around the house. :sad:

    I have this strange feeling, we’ve got a fault line running through this state nobody knew about until now.

  • 176. poolman  |  November 6, 2011 at 12:36 am

    I love Weird Al’s White and Nerdy. Catchy tune. I drove my wife crazy singing that all the time a few years back. :lol:

  • 177. huckingfypocrites  |  November 6, 2011 at 12:39 am

    Damn, Tex. Hang on, man!

    Earthquakes are freaky. I used to treat them like a novelty when I was a kid, but once I became a father, stuff got serious and earthquakes became scary.

    There’s probably going to be some aftershocks for a few days. So if something falls from a wall don’t be too quick to put it back up.

  • 178. an800lbgorilla  |  November 6, 2011 at 12:55 am

    By the by, that’s not 100,000. Not even close.

  • 179. dead rabbit  |  November 6, 2011 at 12:58 am

    My first day being stationed in Northern California, we got absolutely rocked. 7.0, 6.9, 6.3 all in the same night.

    Our barracks were damaged pretty bad.

    I was cleaning smashed cans of blue berry pie filling in the galley the whole next day.

    A chief walked in and caught me sitting indian style eating pie filling. He asked “who’s the new retard?”. I embarrassingly grinned with pie filling on my face.

    Its hard to bounce back from looking so stupid, but I eventually did.

  • 180. dead rabbit  |  November 6, 2011 at 1:01 am

    Holy shit, I just read that Tex got hit by a 5.6.

    Yeah, it might get freaky.

  • 181. dead rabbit  |  November 6, 2011 at 1:09 am

    Tex, are earth quakes rare in Oklahoma?

    5.6…

    I learned in sometimes matters more how the earth quakes compared to what registers on the scale.

    You guys could get hit with more.

    Stay safe.

  • 182. Tex Taylor  |  November 6, 2011 at 1:11 am

    We just made headlines on Drudge! We’ve arrived!

    You know, dogs are some kind of critters. My pup has been acting weird all night. I guarantee you he sensed something humans incapable of understanding, long before we felt that quake.

    I had to go looking for him in the backyard – normally he practically barrels you over trying to get into the house. Tonight, he just kind of sat out in the backyard.

    To me, that earthquake was a much stranger sensation than any tornado – and perhaps a little spookier because with a tornado, there is some warning. My wife and I were sitting here in the family room watching football, and then the foundation of our house started shaking under our feet. Went on for 20-30 seconds.

    Huck, I always thought aftershocks were weaker. This one was actually about 6-8 times as powerful as our first one last night. Isn’t that pretty rare?

  • 183. Tex Taylor  |  November 6, 2011 at 1:12 am

    Tex, are earth quakes rare in Oklahoma?

    So rare Rabbit, at least of that magnitude, I had never felt an earthquake until last night in my 51 years either here or around.

    That was a historical record for this state.

  • 184. Rutherford  |  November 6, 2011 at 1:24 am

    Tex, stay safe dude. The only earthquake I ever felt was a small tremor in Cambridge, MA when I was in college. It was basically a small vibration. A bit unnerving so I can only imagine how upsetting a real quake must be.

    Then again, tonight was the “Lincoln-Douglas debate” between Herman Cain and Newt Gingrich — surely one of the signs of the Apocalypse so it’s no wonder Oklahoma is shaking!! :-)

  • 185. Rutherford  |  November 6, 2011 at 1:25 am

    Quick public service announcement:

    Set your clocks back one hour!

  • 186. poolman  |  November 6, 2011 at 1:53 am

    By the by, that’s not 100,000. Not even close.

    Well it’s not worth arguing this point. We will have to agree to disagree. My initial comment was “some estimates claim was upwards of 100,000 people”. The mayor and Oakland’s Interim Police Chief claimed the crowd was 7,000, which was WAY off.

    The beginning of the video from the chopper shows people pouring onto the roadway. There is no end in sight as they keep coming before even turning the corner into the camera’s view.

    This report says crowds of people were still arriving well past 6pm. Since it was an all day affair, many people were coming and going throughout the day, according to participants.

  • 187. poolman  |  November 6, 2011 at 1:55 am

    Set your clocks back one hour!

    Sorry, we don’t practice that useless temporal MANipulation™ here.

  • 188. huckingfypocrites  |  November 6, 2011 at 2:00 am

    “Huck, I always thought aftershocks were weaker. This one was actually about 6-8 times as powerful as our first one last night. Isn’t that pretty rare?”

    It might not actually be an aftershock. I don’t know enough geek speak to really explain it, but quakes can trigger other quakes and faults have branches.

    A few years back we got hit hard about 5:00 in the morning in 1 spot, and then a few hours later in another spot.

  • 189. poolman  |  November 6, 2011 at 2:08 am

    Tornadoes and now earthquakes too. Yikes!! There goes the neighborhood. Damn Sooner fans are so dedicated, they’ll put up with all kind of catastrophe. I know a few and I think it’s terminal.

    With these recent shakings, maybe it’ll uncover MORE Egyptian artifacts in your neck of the woods. :wink:

  • 190. huckingfypocrites  |  November 6, 2011 at 2:08 am

    Sometimes earthquake waves are jumpy and sometimes they roll. It has to do with the type of fault grinding that is going on. Sometimes they grind side to side, sometimes they grind up and down, and sometimes they grind going under/over each other.

    Soil also affects how the shaking is felt. And also the direction the waves are coming at you.

    In hindsight they are an awesome show of power but they can get scary when going through it.

  • 191. poolman  |  November 6, 2011 at 2:24 am

    They have been predicting a major quake at the New Madrid seismic zone for some time. You’re not TOO far from that, and they estimate if a magnitude 7.7 hit, it would affect Oklahoma. That will definitely cause some serious havoc.

    With all the fracking, you never know. That has been documented to cause earth tremors. There certainly is more of that going on. How many sinkholes have you folks got out there?

  • 192. thorsaurus  |  November 6, 2011 at 3:13 am

    Everything you wanted to know (or maybe didn’t want to know) about midwest earthquakes.

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/04/0412_060412_earthquake.html

    If you’re on natural gas, make sure your lines aren’t tweaked, especially where they connect to appliances. You’re in my prayers. Stay safe.

  • 193. thorsaurus  |  November 6, 2011 at 3:43 am

  • 194. PFesser  |  November 6, 2011 at 10:21 am

    R- Hear! Hear!

    I would add an amendment to the Constitution:

    There shall be no commitment of any U.S. resources to combat, to include all troops and materiel, without a 2/3 vote of both houses of Congress. Upon commitment of any troops, there shall be held a lottery and 1/10 of Congress shall be immediately inducted into the military, with each member to lead a squad into battle.

  • 195. poolman  |  November 6, 2011 at 10:39 am

    Another Iraq war veteran injured due to police brutality in Oakland.

    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/11/heres-the-army-ranger-the-oakland-police-brutally-attacked.html

    Hey Pfesser! Long time. Hope life is treating you okay.

    AFA Congress voting before we commit troops…

    What do we do when the entire congress has been lied to and intentionally misled into going to war, like the Iraq debacle? There is documented cooked intelligence, intentional deception, and several people were eliminated to silence the truth. There hasn’t been anything done about rectifying that publicly yet.

    I’m guessing most conservatives are good with that, since plenty still hold to “the ends justify the means” philosophy, and all our war related industries continue to profit from it. :evil:

  • 196. dead rabbit  |  November 6, 2011 at 11:12 am

    ” 1/10 of Congress shall be immediately inducted into the military, with each member to lead a squad into battle.” -Pfessor

    I think I speak for all Vets when I say this. That’s the worst idea I’ve ever heard in my life. Let’s take the most entitled, inept fucking weirdos and make them lead the troops into battle.

  • 197. poolman  |  November 6, 2011 at 11:17 am

    As a former LAPD officer, I created this video to address those police officers — and their leadership — who have been in violent and brutal attacks at some of the Occupy Wall Street protest camps in the U.S. and around the world. As Sergeant Shamar Thomas made so clear in New York, there are honorable examples from both military and police who can say, “I saw what you did and that was not honorable.” In a world where examples of honorable political leadership are hard to find, it remains for the many veterans who have served with honor to hold up the light and say this is wrong.

    http://owsnews.org/a-message-to-all-police-officers-from-a-former-lapd-officer-and-occupy-wall-street-supporter/

  • 198. PFesser  |  November 6, 2011 at 11:18 am

    Poolman – thanks. I just had to take a break to let the nausea subside a bit.

    Cain looks like another Republican flameout. Us Republican ex-pats are desperately looking for a man we can vote for; I don’t see much to pick among.

    My wife and I were discussing this morning about Romney and the fallout of his pro-choice history. She thinks the single-issue (abortion) faction will field a third-party candidacy – likely Perry and Klondike Kardashian – if he is the nominee, ensuring an Obama win.

    We just keep searching; to my eye the American voter is a giant pressure vessel, filled with superheated water, that is just waiting for the right candidate to tap that stored energy. It’s not Cain; it’s not the nutcases like Palin, Pray-Away-the-Gay Bachmann or Perry. The default seems to be Romney, who is unexciting to just about everybody, but seems like the only viable choice.

    The perfect platform of course is owned by Paul; unfortunately he looks like Tigger_the_Tiger and has a soft, uninspiring speaking voice. If you could combine his logic and incredible knowledge of history and policy with JFK’s demeanor, the voters would respond; that pressure vessel would erupt into a ball of superheated steam that would leave Washington in shreds. I just don’t think he can do it.

    I think we are in a world of doo-doo, my friend. Hope not.

  • 199. PFesser  |  November 6, 2011 at 11:19 am

    ” 1/10 of Congress shall be immediately inducted into the military, with each member to lead a squad into battle.” -Pfessor

    ‘I think I speak for all Vets when I say this. That’s the worst idea I’ve ever heard in my life. Let’s take the most entitled, inept fucking weirdos and make them lead the troops into battle.’

    That’s what I said.

  • 200. Tex Taylor  |  November 6, 2011 at 12:05 pm

    Oh joy. Pisser is back with his version of irreligious tolerance and historically failed political philosophy.

    I was hoping a lethal dose of rads had accidentally passed through the clinic, killing all the roaches, including the bipedal ones.

  • 201. El Tigre  |  November 6, 2011 at 12:08 pm

    “Make the Federal Reserve accountable to Congress (I assume it is not).”

    Can you expand on that, R? It is intended to be independent by design — although not it’s board with the appointment of its chairman.

    If the fed reserve were controlled by congress and dems in particular, I shudder to think of the utter destruction it would create to the banking system.

  • 202. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 6, 2011 at 12:24 pm

    All future military endeavors must be BUDGETED.

    Of course, that would actually require Congress to do its job and PASS a budget. 900+days and counting without one, but at least we passed the healthcare takeover.

    That was MUCH more important than Congress actually doing its job.

    Editor’s note: by request of Alfie, I’ve bolded this comment. BiW needs all the fan support he can get. :-)

  • 203. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 6, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    ” 1/10 of Congress shall be immediately inducted into the military, with each member to lead a squad into battle.”

    ‘I think I speak for all Vets when I say this. That’s the worst idea I’ve ever heard in my life. Let’s take the most entitled, inept fucking weirdos and make them lead the troops into battle.’

    That’s what I said.

    But at least you support the troops. *rolls eyes*

  • 204. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 6, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    Besides, we don’t need to make “leading from behind” the norm.

  • 205. Alfie  |  November 6, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    @194…So what you’re really advocating is that the USA must always go to declared war.

    @ Rutherford 165. All the GOP candidates are offering adjustments to the tax code. It should also be noted that the center to right folks have been wanting this and in a way that would actually help America. As for Glass-Steagall I’ll meet you half way. Lets just define financial institution types via the executive arm of govt and thereby establish clear lines for consumers and the govt. “insurers” Thats all I want G&S had other tentacles i don’t want and the changes I want,well I can’t allow them to go through congressional humping. As for the mini defense Bush tirade you launched which has been picked up by P&P I’ll just score you an I for incomplete and a few other “I” words you kind of deserve but its Sunday and you did write an otherwise interesting post. Thanks for getting back on my #157. I offered that with clear leanings towards my post

  • 206. huckingfypocrites  |  November 6, 2011 at 12:37 pm

    “What do we do when the entire congress has been lied to and intentionally misled into going to war, like the Iraq debacle?”

    As usual…don’t worry about what the current administration is doing…like ignoring Congress and sending men to war…worry about what you think was done by past presidents.

    “I’m guessing most conservatives are good with that, since plenty still hold to “the ends justify the means” philosophy”

    Including your man, Obama. Who is fine with bypassing Congress in order to spread democracy wherever he sees fit.

  • 207. Alfie  |  November 6, 2011 at 12:37 pm

    Rutherford the editorial powers afforded to you by WordPress almost demands you put comment #202 in bold.
    Bravo BIC!

  • 208. huckingfypocrites  |  November 6, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    “…but at least we passed the healthcare takeover.”

    They couldn’t even do that without fudging the rules and fudging the numbers that would allow them to fudge the rules.

  • 209. poolman  |  November 6, 2011 at 2:59 pm

    Including your man, Obama. Who is fine with bypassing Congress in order to spread democracy wherever he sees fit.

    I find it amusing how the supposed conservatives on this board attribute so much power to the POTUS when he does something you dislike, but when he is obviously powerless to to something like create jobs, you same clowns tout how weak and ineffectual he is.

    And now he’s “spreading democracy” in the same manner the last cowboy was, yet it’s not okay only because, well, he’s got a D after his name.

  • 210. poolman  |  November 6, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    If the fed reserve were controlled by congress and dems in particular, I shudder to think of the utter destruction it would create to the banking system.

    This is such an amusing statement. :lol: It made me spew coffee at my monitor. Seeing who “said” it, I don’t think it was intended as humorous.

    Really, I don’t know whether I can do it justice just yet. Let me get over the giggles…

  • 211. huckingfypocrites  |  November 6, 2011 at 3:41 pm

    “And now he’s “spreading democracy” in the same manner the last cowboy was, yet it’s not okay only because, well, he’s got a D after his name.”

    No he isn’t.

    If he were spreading democracy in the same manner as Bush, then he would have asked for…and received…congressional approval before he did it.

    “I find it amusing how the supposed conservatives on this board attribute so much power to the POTUS when he does something you dislike…”

    When the Commander-in-Chief ignores Congress and unilaterally sends Americans into a war zone, to whom should we attribute the power to send Americans into a war zone?

    “…but when he is obviously powerless to to something like create jobs, you same clowns tout how weak and ineffectual he is.”

    He’s the one who said he could create jobs…that is..before he said it wasn’t his job to create jobs.

    It’s not about what we say, it’s about what he says and has said.

    Obama has a lot of power when he keeps it to himself. It’s only when that bothersome “separation of powers” comes along that he becomes impotent. He can’t even rally his own fucking party to pass his shit, anymore.

    And of course, that is the fault of everyone but him….

    Because we’re all racists who want him to fail at all costs….

    (talk about narcissism)

  • 212. dead rabbit  |  November 6, 2011 at 3:44 pm

    Awesome Round 1 last night

  • 213. Tex Taylor  |  November 6, 2011 at 3:47 pm

    I find it amusing that someone who wants us to believe George Bush’s Presidency led us to all sorts of ills, suddenly wants us to believe that Obama powerless to do much of anything.

    That’s the amusing part.

    The revolting part, is when he then wants to tell us he is a recovering Republican, and for all his idiocy shown on this very board, apparently thinks we are as stupid as he is, not being able to see through charade and parade of lies.

  • 214. Tex Taylor  |  November 6, 2011 at 3:54 pm

    Man, that was a heck of a round Rabbit. I thought the Brotha was going out for the count. Heck of a comeback.

  • 215. dead rabbit  |  November 6, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    “If the fed reserve were controlled by congress and dems in particular, I shudder to think of the utter destruction it would create to the banking system.” Tigre

    Yeah, because we could end up with situation where all currency floating in America derives from the debt of future citizens and a Democratic controlled presidency and Congress could take this money and use it in the form of a massive “stimulus” where politically connected assholes get hooked up for failed business models.

    Oh…wait a minute………

    .

  • 216. El Tigre  |  November 6, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    Poolman, waiting for you stupid conspiracy/rigged-scheme retort. Or is it your usual all-powerful Jooooos again?

  • 217. poolman  |  November 6, 2011 at 5:17 pm

    If he were spreading democracy in the same manner as Bush, then he would have asked for…and received…congressional approval before he did it.

    You are claiming Bush got an okay to nation build and spread democracy? I don’t recall that. We attacked Afghanistan because they supposedly harbored terrorists and Iraq was supposedly a threat due to imaginary WMDs. No WMDs or ties to OBL were found. 97 percent of Afghanis never heard of 9/11 or OBL. Hell, all we did was push capitalism on them and follow the PNAC agenda that the neocons lined out well in advance.

    And we are still mired there.

    When the Commander-in-Chief ignores Congress and unilaterally sends Americans into a war zone, to whom should we attribute the power to send Americans into a war zone?

    Who decides what a “war zone” is? With the “war on terror” and the “war on drugs”, boundaries have become arbitrary.

    Or are you referring to the NATO action in Libya? I think the only troops on the ground were journalists and CIA. There were mercenaries, but I think they were primarily working for the other side. It was a NATO resolution. Good thing it didn’t turn it into another Korean war.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_1973

    But I’m okay getting us out of NATO. Unfortunately were are joined at the hip and these resolutions supersede Congress. The action was over faster than our legislature can act. And what’s with France? I thought they were not even part of NATO anymore.

  • 218. dead rabbit  |  November 6, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    Poolman,

    Will you articulate exactly what you don’t like about the Fed, in your own words, sans outside sources?

    Political conversations about the Federal Reserve crack me up because monetary policy is so fucking zany. Everybody’s only 2/3 sure they know what they’re talking about and operating from a common denominator of insecurity. And I pretty much mean everybody, including the Rabbit.

  • 219. dead rabbit  |  November 6, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    “No WMDs or ties to OBL were found.”

    How come the conspiracy doers didn’t just plant WMD? Seems like a piece of cake after pulling off the biggest hi-jinx in the history of Pyrotechnics in NYC.

  • 220. dead rabbit  |  November 6, 2011 at 5:22 pm

    Tex….you still getting rattled? How’s the house?

  • 221. Rutherford  |  November 6, 2011 at 5:30 pm

    Poolman, seriously, Arizona doesn’t recognize daylight savings time? I never knew that.

  • 222. poolman  |  November 6, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    Poolman, waiting for you stupid conspiracy/rigged-scheme retort. Or is it your usual all-powerful Jooooos again?

    No conspiracy except the very Fed itself. But you are the one defending it and you “shutter to think of the utter destruction it would create to the banking system” if Congress controlled it. :lol:

    Hello? :roll: I know lawyers are some of the ones doing fine in this economy, the established ones anyway for the most part. So while we still have an economy, or at least the semblance of one, let me assure you the banking system is already on the way out. It is already destroyed.

    Citizens are not going to stand for another bailout of banks. Now they are gutting the FDIC. The entire world is quickly backing away from the dollar. The Vatican has called for a one world currency. Gold is going up, up, up. Your paper money is going down, down, down. Yeah, it’s intact. :roll:

  • 223. poolman  |  November 6, 2011 at 5:54 pm

    Poolman,
    Will you articulate exactly what you don’t like about the Fed, in your own words, sans outside sources?

    It is a private entity to whom we have given carte blanche. It operates in total impunity and secrecy. It is not domestically owned or accountable. They control us by establishing our collective debt over which we have little to say.

  • 224. poolman  |  November 6, 2011 at 6:03 pm

    How come the conspiracy doers didn’t just plant WMD? Seems like a piece of cake after pulling off the biggest hi-jinx in the history of Pyrotechnics in NYC.

    If you ask the residents of Fallujah, we did.

    In 2010, the International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health, a leading medical journal, published a study which shows that the rates of cancer, infant mortality and leukaemia exceed those reported in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallujah

    But really once we invaded and committed troops, there was no reason to “prove” it. At that point it was just easier to just off any of the whistleblowers.

  • 225. poolman  |  November 6, 2011 at 6:07 pm

    Poolman, seriously, Arizona doesn’t recognize daylight savings time? I never knew that.

    I think the Navajo Nation does. It’s in AZ. But no, the state as a whole does not play that game.

  • 226. poolman  |  November 6, 2011 at 6:11 pm

  • 227. El Tigre  |  November 6, 2011 at 6:17 pm

    Gee you’re a hard one to predict Poolman. :lol:

    To the point. Rutherford said he would have the reserve directly accountable to Congress. What do you mean by this? We are not talking about the Treasury. It is intended to operate independently for a reason. What are you proposing and why?

    Rabbit, you’re on to something different. Not wrong, just not the point Rutherford was after.

    Poolman just like to pretend he has some insight no one else. Then he preaches about his pretend knowledge as though he were at Fat Grannies where they all play along.

  • 228. Rutherford  |  November 6, 2011 at 6:32 pm

    unfortunately he [Ron Paul] looks like Tigger_the_Tiger

    HOLY CRAP!!! He does!!!! :lol:

  • 229. Rutherford  |  November 6, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    See 202 per Alfie’s request. ;-)

  • 230. Rutherford  |  November 6, 2011 at 6:40 pm

    I find it amusing how the supposed conservatives on this board attribute so much power to the POTUS when he does something you dislike, but when he is obviously powerless to to something like create jobs, you same clowns tout how weak and ineffectual he is.

    Amazing, isn’t it? Sometimes I wonder how the conservative mind doesn’t just explode with all the contradictions.

  • 231. El Tigre  |  November 6, 2011 at 6:45 pm

    “I find it amusing how the supposed conservatives on this board attribute so much power to the POTUS when he does something you dislike, but when he is obviously powerless to to something like create jobs, you same clowns tout how weak and ineffectual he is.”

    Well tell us then which it is Oh Great Defender of Ineptitude.

  • 232. El Tigre  |  November 6, 2011 at 6:47 pm

    (that was rhetorical. we all know whatever means Obama’s not accountable for his failures is what it is).

  • 233. Rutherford  |  November 6, 2011 at 6:47 pm

    Who decides what a “war zone” is? With the “war on terror” and the “war on drugs”, boundaries have become arbitrary.

    Amen and hallelujah!

  • 234. Rutherford  |  November 6, 2011 at 6:57 pm

    Rutherford said he would have the reserve directly accountable to Congress. What do you mean by this?

    Well Rabbit kinda hit it on the head when he said a lot of us only know 2/3 of what we’re talking about with the Fed … I’ll reduce my admitted knowledge to one third.

    As others have said here, the Fed operates independently and can exercise an economic philosophy free from debate or disagreement. The printing of money at will and manipulation of interest rates are things I think can be dangerous in “independent” hands. But again, with a hat tip to Rabbit, I’m partly talking out of my ass on this one.

    All I can say is when Ron Paul rails against the Fed, it doesn’t sound like insanity to me. I also know that there is something wrong when one person (be it Greenspan or Bernanke) can, with one comment, send the Dow tumbling.

  • 235. Alfie  |  November 6, 2011 at 6:58 pm

    Rutherford God bless you,really you’re an excellent host.
    I think you and Poolman need to get a grip on one thing though. (more than one but for starters)
    The word ,em>war means something in the conversation. Don’t get me wrong the operations in Afghanistan and Iraq are war but we’re not at war.Theres a point of law etc there.
    You can debate and berate all you want but Bush did it all legal,Obama unfortunately….not so much at least in regards to Libya and Uganda.Also on Libya NATO violated its charter where as in Afghanistan they did not.

  • 236. El Tigre  |  November 6, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    R, in speaking of the stimulus, I think Rabbitt is saying the exact opposite. Also, if Greenspan or Bernanke can rile the markets with a word (or even funny grin) indicating a change in the discount rate, what the fuck do you think would happen if Bwaney Fwanks slobbered something near an open mic?

    (sorry for the graphic on that one)

  • 237. huckingfypocrites  |  November 6, 2011 at 8:51 pm

    “I think the only troops on the ground were journalists and CIA”

    I didn’t say he put boots on the ground, did I?

    I said a “war zone.” We were dropping bombs on human beings and helping others to do the same. Are you going to dispute it was a war zone?

    “You are claiming Bush got an okay to nation build and spread democracy?”

    No. He didn’t need permission for that part. Neither does Obama.

    Spreading democracy and nation building is a process. That process begins with kicking out the regime currently in power. That is the part that requires congressional approval.

    Bush got it, Obama didn’t…Period.

    “Hell, all we did was push capitalism on them and follow the PNAC agenda that the neocons lined out well in advance.”

    Just like your man Obama does. To the fucking letter!

    Except Bush got permission when he did it….Obama didn’t.

  • 238. an800lbgorilla  |  November 6, 2011 at 9:31 pm

    Well, my boys pulled it off. Tebow and McGahee combined for over 270 yds against an Oakland team that was stuffing the line against the run. Tebow (who I’m honestly still on the fence with) is the first QB this season to rush for 100+ yds.

    Still not the best in stats (10/22 for 128 yds) but a win is a win. I’ll take it.

  • 239. Tex Taylor  |  November 6, 2011 at 9:39 pm

    No WMDs or ties to OBL were found.

    Strange. OBL called Iraq the War the War against the Crusaders and the Mother of all battles. And even as recently as two months ago, Al-Qaida in Iraq vowed to carry out “100 attacks” across the country, starting in the middle of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, to exact revenge for the death of Osama bin Laden.

    To believe there are no Al-Qaida ties to Iraq is asking us all to suspend disbelief of the most obvious and proven. :roll:

    And we already know Saddam Hussein had WMD, as he had at least three times used WMD to kill Kurds and Iranians, and had shuffled chemical weaponry between Syria and Iraq as late as March 2003.

    Somehow, Foolman conveniently forgets that Iraq had continually thumbed its nose at 16 U.N. resolutions for more than ten years. More so, somehow without ties, the American military continues to kills Al-Qaida by the thousands on the sands of Iraq.

    That alone would justify the necessity of the war. And thank God that our leadership realized we were in a war with Al-Qaida, even when Ron Paul toadies aren’t smart enough to recognize one way or the other, we would be fighting a war with Al-Qaida. Better Baghdad than Manhattan in my book.

    97 percent of Afghanis never heard of 9/11 or OBL. Hell, all we did was push capitalism on them and follow the PNAC agenda that the neocons lined out well in advance.

    Let’s say Foolman is right. But 100% of Afghanis had heard of the Taliban, and it was the Taliban who was harboring UBL and Al-Qaida. Pushing capitalism on the stone age. :lol: What a maroon. A combination of idiocy, delusion and selective memory.

  • 240. Tex Taylor  |  November 6, 2011 at 10:06 pm

    Rabbit, no more shaking “yet.” Thank you for asking.

    Had an interesting conversation with a neighbor who relocated here from S. California this afternoon. She told me she had gone through several good sized earthquakes growing up in S.C. including Northridge, but last night was the hardest rocking she had ever personally felt. :shock: They felt this quake in Wisconsin. Don’t ask me…something about the makeup of the geological strata.

    I never knew earthquakes were accompanied by a loud roar. One of the strangest things I’ve ever experienced.

    Frankly, I’m amazed that my house was not damaged, or any of my neighbors that I’m aware, other than my widow neighbor across the street developed a slow leak from a toilet. And who ,knows – that may simply be coincidence. You could hear the pipes rattling in the walls for the better part of 30 seconds in my house, and it felt like you were standing on a giant vibrator. The only damage I received that I have found so far was a baseboard popped loose which I fixed with some brad nails.

    I will tell you this much. To think that the earthquake in Japan, or the Christmas on in the Indian ocean were more than a thousand times as powerful as last night must have been incredibly terrifying, because this one shook a bunch of people up around here in more ways than just the shake. My S.C. neighbor said she was scared to go back to sleep. And that’s somebody that is used to these things.

  • 241. poolman  |  November 6, 2011 at 10:24 pm

    The word ,em>war means something in the conversation. Don’t get me wrong the operations in Afghanistan and Iraq are war but we’re not at war.Theres a point of law etc there.

    We can argue semantics till the cows come home, but the bottom line is we are killing people (often civilians) and our troops are being killed in an exchange of firepower in lands that are not our own.

    Whether openly or covertly, we have been engaged in wars or lethal conflicts or militarized actions or whatever other legal jargon you might want to espouse for my entire lifetime (I’m 54). Most of these have been started under false pretenses. One only has to research the once classified documents to know that.

    Since we cannot undue the damage and destruction of “war” or aggressive military actions, we should first ascertain the truth regarding the reasons we should employ such actions.

    Let’s take the events of 9/11 as example. We had been told the very morning of these attacks that they were perpetrated by Osama bin Laden from one of his many fortified underground bunkers in Tora Bora. We were shown elaborate details of these sophisticated and fortified facilities along with immediate “proof” of those involved by way of pictures, possessions, and passports. Heck, they even left us a couple holy books and their agenda to “find”.

    Armed with this “proof”, we attacked a people loosely packaged as a “nation harboring terrorists” and named Afghanistan. Never mind that this tribal nation never heard of OBL or Al qaeda or 9/11.

    When the Taliban in Pakistan were willing to offer up OBL to us if we would only show to them some proof of his involvement in the event which he claimed no knowledge, we basically flipped them off and carpet bombed the countryside.

    On September 21, the Taliban responded to the ultimatum, promising that if the U.S. could bring evidence that bin Laden was guilty, they would hand him over, stating that they had no evidence linking him to the September 11 attacks.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban

    Even to this very day, we hold NO admissible proof of his involvement or any justifiable reason for our aggression against a land of primarily indigenous tribes consisting of mostly poor farmers.

    In a land supposedly established and based on individual freedom, liberty and justice, we have NOT exercised our authority based on any righteous principles. And in our zeal to enact revenge, we collectively don’t care.

  • 242. poolman  |  November 6, 2011 at 10:34 pm

    Just like your man Obama does. To the fucking letter!

    Exactly. The very reason I said, HE HAS NO POWER, HE’S A PUPPET. It does not matter WHO is in the position of POTUS, the neocon agenda marches on. Duh! :roll:

  • 243. poolman  |  November 6, 2011 at 10:38 pm

    Obviously the Oklahoma shaking didn’t do much good, as far as clearing cobwebs from the attic is concerned. Too subtle?

    Try again, Father.

  • 244. dead rabbit  |  November 6, 2011 at 10:43 pm

    I can’t imagine being in a quake now.

    I was 18 years old when I was in that 7.0 et al.

    Totally different mind set.

  • 245. poolman  |  November 6, 2011 at 10:51 pm

    I have slept through earthquake tremors that supposedly were felt in my area. Nothing ever substantial, so I don’t have a real reference. I have experienced tornadoes and tidal waves. But even the tidal waves we had in Hawaii were preceded by earthquakes, yet I don’t recall them. I don’t think they were substantial, at least the epicenters were likely far off from where I was.

  • 246. Tex Taylor  |  November 6, 2011 at 10:54 pm

    When the Taliban in Pakistan were willing to offer up OBL to us if we would only show to them some proof of his involvement in the event which he claimed no knowledge, we basically flipped them off and carpet bombed the countryside.

    On September 21, the Taliban responded to the ultimatum, promising that if the U.S. could bring evidence that bin Laden was guilty, they would hand him over, stating that they had no evidence linking him to the September 11 attacks.

    No, they offered to have him tried in a “Muslim” country of their choosing. And we’ve seen the results of those agreements, where they walk in the prison front door, and walk out the back door. Big difference….

    You’re not only stupid, you’re gullible. There’s probably a high degree of correlation between the two, but you’ve got an acute case of naivety stupidity. :wink:

    Subtle enough Brick?

  • 247. poolman  |  November 6, 2011 at 11:03 pm

    No, they offered to have him tried in a “Muslim” country of their choosing.

    Really. Now show me where you got that. I must admit it is a step up from your prior claim that NO offer was ever made.

    And we’ve seen the results of those agreements, where they walk in the prison front door, and walk out the back door. Big difference….

    Now you are confusing their “justice” system with ours.

  • 248. poolman  |  November 6, 2011 at 11:35 pm

    Subtle enough Brick?

    Subtle? Well, I don’t know if you are capable of subtle, but I’ll play along. I actually like this new nickname, being as we are all made from the very dust of the earth. It can take many forms.

    Brick: A brick is a block of ceramic material used in masonry construction, usually laid using various kinds of mortar. It has been regarded as one of the longest lasting and strongest building materials used throughout history.

    I’ve actually laid quite a lot of bricks in my day. Shake it down!

  • 249. poolman  |  November 7, 2011 at 12:17 am

    For you Okies and brick houses out there, a little tribute…

  • 250. poolman  |  November 7, 2011 at 12:24 am

    Day by day night after night blinded by the neon lights
    Hurry here hustlin’ there no one’s got the time to spare
    Money’s tight nothin’ free won’t somebody come and rescue me
    I am stranded caught in the crossfire
    Stranded caught in the crossfire

    Tooth for tooth eye for an eye sell your soul just to buy buy buy
    Beggin’ a dollar stealin’ a dime come on can’t you see that i
    I am stranded caught in the crossfire
    I am stranded caught in the crossfire

    I need some kind of kindness some kind of sympathy oh no
    We’re stranded caught in the crossfire

    Save the strong lose the weak never turning the other cheek
    Trust nobody don’t be no fool whatever happened to the golden rule
    We got stranded caught in the crossfire
    We got stranded caught in the crossfire
    We got stranded caught in the crossfire
    Stranded caught in the crossfire
    Help me

  • 251. Tex Taylor  |  November 7, 2011 at 12:25 am

    A “non-negotiable” offer was made with “proof” Bin Laden was ever involved to be handed over to a neutral country – our “ally” Pakistan. :roll: Mullah Mohammed Omar said there was no move to “hand anyone over”. Do you know something the Taliban leader didn’t Brick?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/oct/14/afghanistan.terrorism5

    On October 7, 2001, the Taliban ambassador to Pakistan offered to detain bin Laden and try him under Islamic law if the U.S. made a formal request and presented the Taliban with evidence. A Bush administration official, speaking on condition of anonymity, rejected the Taliban offer, and stated that the U.S. would not negotiate their demands.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban

    And I like the name too – I’m glad your flattered. Consider that another sign of my love…

    In your case, brick is used in the context as “dumb as…”

  • 252. poolman  |  November 7, 2011 at 1:08 am

    Do you even read the links you offer, Tex?

    Just wondering. This one you provided says the second time they offered to hand over bin Laden it was to a third country (unnamed), on that would not succumb to US pressure. A neutral one, if any exist, like maybe Sweden. Pakistan is not at all mentioned. This was after the bombing campaign had started.

    The same article claims before the bombing campaign the Taliban were willing to try him in an Islamic court in Afghanistan, which the US promptly rejected.

    What you don’t seem to get is that, to them, is the highest form of justice. They were not trying to let him off easy, despite what you think. They only asked we provide proof. That, to you, is unreasonable?

    Regardless what you think about Islam or Muslims, they adhere to a system of justice.

    But Bush told them we already KNEW he was guilty, without any doubt. Talk about your cowboy justice. Lynch him, boys! If he was that certain, how come they still can’t PROVE it?

  • 253. poolman  |  November 7, 2011 at 1:27 am

    “dumb as…” a bag of hammers…

    “The law is a futile institution.” :grin:

  • 254. Tex Taylor  |  November 7, 2011 at 1:30 am

    What you don’t seem to get is that, to them, is the highest form of justice. They were not trying to let him off easy, despite what you think. They only asked we provide proof. That, to you, is unreasonable?

    Regardless what you think about Islam or Muslims, they adhere to a system of justice.

    I’ll let the rest of the crowd laugh at you now like I do. As Yoda would say, “Possibly the dumbest man on earth are you, Brick.”

    Utter and complete imbecile.

  • 255. Rutherford  |  November 7, 2011 at 1:37 am

    Poolman, the problem with any denial about 9/11 that might have come from OBL is that it flies in the face of interviews he had done promising an “event” that would shake things up.

    However Tex, it is my understanding that Al Qaeda was not in Iraq until AFTER we invaded.

    The bottom line is debating the wisdom of these exercises is getting old … it’s time to get out regardless of why we got in.

  • 256. poolman  |  November 7, 2011 at 2:50 am

    I guess we should just concentrate on the “war” at hand.

  • 257. El Tigre  |  November 7, 2011 at 9:03 am

    Poolman, please stop with all of the video imbedding. It is annoying and you’re just doing it to piss off Tex at this point. We all don’t need 5 minute page loads when the thread grows as a consequence of your the juvenile efforts at retribution.

  • 258. Rutherford  |  November 7, 2011 at 10:27 am

    Ehhhh news flash to Tigre and Tex, our beloved Gorilla embeds at least as many videos as Poolman does.

    Worry not. There should be a new thread posted by end of today.

  • 259. Tex Taylor  |  November 7, 2011 at 10:35 am

    Tigre,

    I’m convinced that Poolman doesn’t do so much to annoy me (his very existence is enough to annoy anybody lucid :smile: ), but that The Brick is that ignorant and that lonely.

    And these Occupy Fail things Brick links? Good Lawd – Occupy Failed has become ‘Welcome to the Jungle’ all over the country. Rapes, looting, beating up the elderly, drug dealing, child prostitution, even head lice. And the Brick wants to continue to tie his name to these disgraces?

    A shame because there are some legitimate grievances with these banks and the Fed. But not from this cesspool of humanity. They are so foul, they detract from the real problems.

  • 260. poolman  |  November 7, 2011 at 11:25 am

    History is being made guys. It will record which side of events you are on. Nice video of a police officer intentionally running over protesters in Atlanta with his motorcycle, too. I held off on posting that one. You’ll have to google it.

    Of course you can deny it, or continue to discount the movement like Tex does. It really doesn’t matter. Your ignorance won’t change things. Your brilliant discussion regarding your ignorance won’t either.

  • 261. Rutherford  |  November 7, 2011 at 11:41 am

    Tex …. child prostitution???? WTF??? Please provide a link on that one. I’ve GOT to read that story. :roll:

  • 262. Rutherford  |  November 7, 2011 at 11:59 am

    As if we needed any more proof of the old Who maxim “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss”, Wall Street has made bigger profits in the three years of Obama than it did in the entire eight years of Bush.

    Securities firms — the trading arms of big banks and hundreds of other independent firms — have fared even better. They’ve generated at least $83 billion in profit during the past 21 / 2 years, compared with $77 billion during the entire Bush administration, according to data from the Securities Industry and Financial Markets Association.

    Of course, there is always an alternative view.

    That’s why we’re doomed folks. Everybody twists the numbers to prove their point. We will never agree on the problem so how the hell will we ever solve it?

  • 263. poolman  |  November 7, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    not from this cesspool of humanity. They are so foul, they detract from the real problems.

    I could just visualize Tex in the first century berating the Lord, telling Him He’s defending the wrong folks. :grin:

    And I, the Son of Man, feast and drink, and you say, ‘He’s a glutton and a drunkard, and a friend of the worst sort of sinners!’

  • 264. poolman  |  November 7, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    That’s why we’re doomed folks. Everybody twists the numbers to prove their point. We will never agree on the problem so how the hell will we ever solve it?

    The point being argued is whether profits have been higher under Obama or Bush. It really isn’t important, except in the political game. The fact is profits are being made. And those transfers of wealth have come at the expense of the middle class. We did not create new wealth, it is simply a transfer of any existing wealth.

    Complicating things ALWAYS gives dishonesty a foothold. In the case of our financial world, this complication creates a smokescreen for criminals and cheaters to profit from their deceptions. Rarely do they have their skin in the game.

    It is this massive house of cards that needs to come down. And it is deteriorating, because it is not sustainable. It was never meant to be. It’s very design was flawed from the start.

    http://owsnews.org/the-collapse-of-our-corrupt-predatory-pathological-financial-system-is-necessary-and-positive/

  • 265. Tex Taylor  |  November 7, 2011 at 12:49 pm

    Here you go Rutherford. This is what Brick the Creep wants to equate to Christ’s reign. The man is not just stupid – he’s decrepit.

    http://www.unionleader.com/article/20111028/NEWS03/710289961

  • 266. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 7, 2011 at 12:49 pm

    I have to admit, Brick makes a far more entertaining foil than Dan ever did.

  • 267. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 7, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    “and thus spake the one :”Send forth the hatchet face with the young and tender one, to exchange her innocence for 30 pieces of silver.” “Send forth the loud and obnoxious to chant and tresspass upon embassies, and let the dim and weak empower themselves by forcing themselves upon the women among them so that those with short shadows may see themselves as long.”

    Deceptions, Chapter 11, verse 13.
    The Revolutionary’s Bible

  • 268. poolman  |  November 7, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    Since I have posted multiple videos on this thread, I will refrain from posting 2 more. I don’t want to be accused of slowing down the Tigre. Seriously though, if he is getting 5 minute page loads, he must be on dial up. I can get here in less than 5 seconds with my wide band connection, despite all the video and avatar clutter.

    This link adds Roger Waters’ contributions. Anyone interested can go there. Now I feel like just another brick in the wall. :wink:

  • 269. poolman  |  November 7, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    We don’t need no education
    We dont need no thought control
    No dark sarcasm in the classroom
    Teachers leave them kids alone
    Hey! Teachers! Leave them kids alone!
    All in all it’s just another brick in the wall.
    All in all you’re just another brick in the wall.

  • 270. Rutherford  |  November 7, 2011 at 1:54 pm

    Tex the woman, Jensen, is not identified as an Occupy NH protester. She is a random pimp. So what the hell is your point? BTW, if she’s 23 years old, I’m 21.

    P.S. Could you also explain this part to me?

    Police said the teen’s mother called them Thursday about noon to say her daughter was missing and that her photograph had been posted on a website advertising adult party entertainment.

    Court documents show the mother told police she and a friend had used the website to negotiate a deal for the friend to pay for sex with the teen.

    It sounds like the teen’s own mother was complicit in whoring her out.

  • 271. Tex Taylor  |  November 7, 2011 at 2:10 pm

    The point is Rutherford,

    How many instances at Tea Party rallies did you see this type of transgression?

    How much property damage was done?

    How much dope was peddled?

    How much rape was committed?

    How much violence in the streets?

    How many were arrested?

    I see that you’ve backed of to a degree of your undying support for the rabble. But to ever equate these schmucks to something comparable to a Tea Party is an outrage.

    Again, there are legitimate grievances – some you and I agree about the big banks. But this isn’t the group you want representing you, is it?

  • 272. Rutherford  |  November 7, 2011 at 2:12 pm

    I’d really like Rabbit’s thoughts on this article posted by Poolman since Rabbit has given this stuff a lot of thought.

    http://owsnews.org/the-collapse-of-our-corrupt-predatory-pathological-financial-system-is-necessary-and-positive/

    If I read this correctly, the current system involves a chain of investors all buying insurance to bring their investment risk to zero. True capitalism is not a zero risk affair. This is a perversion of capitalism,

    For anyone who understands this better than I do, does this article accurately describe the current situation?

  • 273. poolman  |  November 7, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    Rutherford,

    Don’t spoil the narrative. I think that was his “proof” regarding the claim of child prostitution. If you spin it just right, all the occupy people approve of this behavior.

    Too bad his wise men don’t know what it’s like to be thick as a brick. :wink:

  • 274. huckingfypocrites  |  November 7, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    It’s funny to do a search for “Tea Party” on Rutherford’s blog and read all the posts he has written about their anger, lack of focus, and lack of leadership. Suggestions that there were infiltrators who did things to make them look bad were laughed off.

    He even suggested their anti-government rage had led to the murder of a census worker.

    My how things change. What was once a call for the arrest of Tea Partiers peacefully exercising their 2nd amendment rights is now silence over vandalism, assault, and rape.

  • 275. thorsaurus  |  November 7, 2011 at 2:39 pm

    “Amazing, isn’t it? Sometimes I wonder how the conservative mind doesn’t just explode with all the contradictions.” – R

    Easily explained, R. They have such big heads that it is nearly impossible to build up enough pressure within their thick skulls to initiate catastrophic failure. ;)

  • 276. huckingfypocrites  |  November 7, 2011 at 2:57 pm

    “Easily explained, R. They have such big heads that it is nearly impossible to build up enough pressure within their thick skulls to initiate catastrophic failure. ”

    As opposed to small-brained liberals who deal with the numerous contradictions within their party by simply turning their head and pretending they don’t exist.

  • 277. thorsaurus  |  November 7, 2011 at 3:14 pm

    “He grabbed my head and pulled it toward my crotch.”

    I wonder if that is what Cain meant by staying on message? I expect Clinton’s endorsement any minute. :)

  • 278. thorsaurus  |  November 7, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    … his crotch … My bad. Hey PF, Cain show up in any of your videos?

  • 279. PFesser  |  November 7, 2011 at 3:39 pm

    Nah, no Herman for us. My friend did mostly spanking vids. Since most spanking pervs really like the red bottoms and black folks’ rumps don’t mark very well (and there is always that holdover from “beatin’ the slaves” stuff), my friend never used any black models as subs. There is a guy in SF name Pieter Ackworth who has a really dynamite black girl as a domme who does a bang-up job.

  • 280. PFesser  |  November 7, 2011 at 3:44 pm

    Pieter has a series of Websites under the umbrella of Kink.com. I can’t think of the girl’s name, but she is a real hottie.

  • 281. Rutherford  |  November 7, 2011 at 3:59 pm

    he has written about their anger, lack of focus, and lack of leadership.

    Why, yes … yes I did.

    He even suggested their anti-government rage had led to the murder of a census worker.

    I did and issued a subsequent mea culpa.

    What was once a call for the arrest of Tea Partiers peacefully exercising their 2nd amendment rights

    Ehhh no I don’t recall calling for their arrest. Furthermore, they had no reason to “exercise their 2nd amendment rights” other than to appear threatening.

    is now silence over vandalism, assault, and rape.

    Granted I haven’t written a blog post about it, but I call your attention to the following comment I made in the previous thread:

    211. Rutherford | October 29, 2011 at 1:57 am

    Tex I will grant you two things tonight, mainly because I’m in an inexplicably good mood.

    First, the OWS crowd needs to do their thing during the day and go the f*ck home at night and then come back the next day. For all the Tea Party’s ignorance and gun toting, they at least knew when the party was over and when to start the party up again. This continuous occupation can only lead to frayed nerves and confrontations.

    Second, and I tweeted this the other day (you guys only quote the tweets you don’t like), even though I’m not tickled with the reaction of the Oakland police, the fact is that CIVIL disobedience does NOT involve throwing rocks and bottles at cops.

    I watched an interview between Crazy Larry and an Oakland OWS protester and I was dumbfounded. Larry tried his best to paint the cops as savages but the protester’s answers blew my f*cking mind. I paraphrase the interview below:

    Larry: Did you get any warning from the police that they might use force? Larry’s clearly expecting her to say no.

    Protester: Yes, they warned us to disperse or they would have to forcibly disperse us.

    Larry: Reports say some protesters threw rocks and bottles at cops. Was that true? Again, Larry is expecting her to say no, it’s just propaganda.

    Protester: Yes it’s true. Some threw rocks and bottles. But the cops were in full riot gear. They were in no danger.

    WTF????? In what world do you throw a bottle at a cop and not expect to get your head bashed in? Tear gas was the best case scenario response. Now of course, the Iraq vet getting critically injured makes a great headline as it throws GOPhers supposed patriotism up against the wall but it doesn’t erase the total disregard this crowd had for the proper methodology of the protest.

    Again … CIVIL disobedience. You drop to the ground and go limp and force the cops to drag you off. You don’t raise a fist, a rock or a bottle.

    Damn … now I’m not in such a good mood anymore. I’m going to bed. :-(

  • 282. Rutherford  |  November 7, 2011 at 4:02 pm

    PF for what it is worth Sharon Bialek, Cain’s alleged victim, is white.

  • 283. Rutherford  |  November 7, 2011 at 4:03 pm

    To clarify comment 282, therefore the “red ass” phenom would still have worked. :neutral:

  • 284. Tex Taylor  |  November 7, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    If this Bialek’s claim is true, why is it she dragged that camera pimp and misandrist Gloria Allred with her? That alone destroys the woman’s credibility.

    Why not just get on the stage without legal representation and say her piece?

    This smells to high heaven.

  • 285. Rutherford  |  November 7, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    So now the question is can Cain pull a Bill Clinton and survive all the muck?

  • 286. poolman  |  November 7, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    You guys are down with mythology. This is funny. I wondered how Greece got in such a mess…

    http://www.disinfo.com/2011/11/blame-the-greek-gods-for-greeces-failed-economy-video/

  • 287. Rutherford  |  November 7, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    Yeah, Tex I usually don’t jump on board your misandrist bus but I admit Gloria Allred’s presence gives this a real tabloid feel.

    Also I watched the presser live and one thing Ms. Bialek said that bothered me was that back in 1997 she supposedly told Cain “you should run for President some day.” That’s an odd little detail to add to her story … sounds totally fabricated to me. I don’t believe she told Cain any such thing.

    I don’t get a good vibe from this woman. I don’t know her motivation to lie. With all that said, this could be a game-changer for Cain. If he survives this, he’s home free.

  • 288. Rutherford  |  November 7, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    Tex FWIW, I did a quick read on Allred today and apparently she was raped as a young woman, resulting in a pregnancy which she almost died aborting. That’s a lot of trauma for a young woman and no doubt explains her life-long pursuit of “justice” for other women.

  • 289. PFesser  |  November 7, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    Rutherford – re: retaliation against the police. Well spoken.

    Thoreau described the elements of civil disobedience exactly in the way you do, but MLK drove center when he spoke of self-purification before “direct action” in his classic Letter from a Birmingham Jail.

    ‘We had no alternative except to prepare for direct action, whereby we would present our very bodies as a means of laying our case before the conscience of the local and the national community. Mindful of the difficulties involved, we decided to undertake a process of self purification. We began a series of workshops on nonviolence, and we repeatedly asked ourselves: “Are you able to accept blows without retaliating?” “Are you able to endure the ordeal of jail?”

    No, if you cannot accept blows without retaliating then you must not participate.

  • 290. El Tigre  |  November 7, 2011 at 5:06 pm

    “Ehhhh news flash to Tigre and Tex, our beloved Gorilla embeds at least as many videos as Poolman does.”

    But I like Gorilla and his videos. Poolman and his 50 minute troofer crap followed by obvious lyric references, eh . . . not so much. :shock:

    Keep rockin’ G!

  • 291. dead rabbit  |  November 7, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    R,

    To my knowledge, the author seems to exaggerate the “hedging of the hedges” a bit. Mortgages are spliced into bonds and then insured. If they also insure the insurance (and so on), I’d like to know what that instrument is called. It seemed the buck stopped with AIG last melt down.

    Unless I misunderstood him, he seems to imply that investors think they are eliminating risk by the instruments themselves. In reality, it’s Nanny that ensures their risk free world by consistently bailing out the holders of these derivatives. (He does seem to mention that, later in the piece)

    That being said, the fact that these CDO’s are not publicly declared and are so prolific guarantees the following game of chicken:

    The established baby boomers of America (and anyone else with any form of savings) getting virtually all their wealth wiped out or continued TARP style government bail outs.

    Rallying behind the banks as “come back kids” who repaid their TARP loans misses the point entirely. TBTF ensures the cycle will continue.

    Hell, is a normal recession even possible with out tax payer bail outs?
    Seriously, ask yourself that again.

    Can a normal recession ever occur again?

    I also agree that this shit has to serve as an incentive to shy away from bets on real life investments.

    A collapse would not be a good thing. Tex’s entire IRA account would be fucked. We would be in a true depression.

    The writer probably doesn’t have a pot to piss in. While I feel the free market needs to eventually summon Shiva the destroyer, I don’t candy coat what the effects would be on hard working people who played by the rules their whole life.

    You can only hide from nature so long, though.

    I will say this. Many conservatives put on rosy glasses when looking at the state of Capitalism, while liberals enjoy the status quo to keep up their depraved, bloated government on its spending orgy.

  • 293. huckingfypocrites  |  November 7, 2011 at 5:28 pm

    “If he survives this, he’s home free.”

    Herman Cain is so intellectually weak that Barack Obama will absolutely destroy him in a general election.

  • 294. Rutherford  |  November 7, 2011 at 6:21 pm

    Huck I’m not thinking general election yet. I’m saying if Herman’s numbers aren’t obliterated by Ms. Bialek then Romney may have something to really worry about.

  • 295. Tex Taylor  |  November 7, 2011 at 6:28 pm

    I did a quick read on Allred today and apparently she was raped as a young woman, resulting in a pregnancy which she almost died aborting.

    That sounds about as truthful as one of Poolman’s whoppers.

    I’m not calling you a liar “R” – I’m sure you did read that. But I don’t believe it. I think it makes a convenient story for a known self-promoter and a man hating shrew. From O.J. and admittance of girls into Boy Scouts, to Tiger Woods, and now this amongst a hundred others of lesser fame. Gloria Allred is a known TV pimp and self-aggrandizer, and anything she is involved in should be suspect.

    I have no idea if Herman Cain is a letch, but some of these stories are so over the top, I’m beginning to wonder if this isn’t simply another story to hurt a black Conservative. Herman may be a skirt chaser, but he doesn’t come across to me as some predator. And if Cain was, I don’t think there’s a chance in hell he would have ever made it to a position of CEO. In the world of politics, that may be bragging rights – in a world of business, that’s a career ending move if caught or even by reputation.

    Don’t you find it a little peculiar that all this is now coming to light only after Cain became somewhat popular? If memory serves, Cain ran for Senator some years back and we never heard a peep.

    I agree with Huck, politically Herman is a lightweight and not ready for prime time. But the man is not stupid. What is ridiculous and somewhat of an embarrassment is how the man became one of the leading contenders of the Republican party. Herman is popular because he makes a good story and comes across as somewhat charismatic and likeable. Sound familiar?

    Frankly, Herman Cain is the Barack Obama version of the GOP and should have been summarily discarded as a serious candidate months ago. This once again is pure pandering for obvious reasons and quaint little sound bites. And I am tired of the phoniness of it. It’s as sickening to play race for race sake when Republican execute it, as when Dimocrat – and every bit as phony. If Herman Cain were white, he would not be standing on the stage in the debates.

    I hope that doesn’t come across as bigoted. I like Cain and am sure he is a smart business man with a wonderful life story. But it is the truth.

  • 296. dead rabbit  |  November 7, 2011 at 7:41 pm

    Making little boys girl scouts….

    What the fuck.

    Liberalism really is a disease.

    I heard of a Lesbian couple going to court so that they can keep giving their 12 year old boy hormone shots to delay puberty because they claim he “wants” to be a girl.

    A sick fucking world you have created, R.

    Oh, but let’s get back to fearing/mocking Christians.

  • 297. poolman  |  November 7, 2011 at 7:54 pm

    But I like Gorilla and his videos. Poolman and his 50 minute troofer crap followed by obvious lyric references, eh . . . not so much.

    Oh you’re just in a snit cos you got compared to RP in 228. Get over yourself. Go occupy a head.

  • 298. poolman  |  November 7, 2011 at 7:57 pm

    A sick fucking world you have created, R

    Step aside FSM, worship will commence at the altar of Rutherford. :wink:

  • 299. poolman  |  November 7, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    I hope that doesn’t come across as bigoted.

    Bigot: One who is strongly partial to one’s own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

    Who could ever use such a term to describe Tex? :roll:

  • 300. poolman  |  November 7, 2011 at 8:41 pm

    I think this helps explain the mortgage fraud in layman’s terms…

    Once again, I won’t post the video in respect to slow-reacting Felidae.

    http://www.plunderthecrimeofourtime.com/

  • 301. an800lbgorilla  |  November 7, 2011 at 8:51 pm

    But I like Gorilla and his videos.” – Tigre

    Case in point…

    Only one word describes this guy: TOOL.

    I’d love to hear Plan B when they bring in the fork lift and he’s high stepping along. His punishment should be to hand him a hammer and chizle. He can hold the chizle with his teeth…

  • 302. an800lbgorilla  |  November 7, 2011 at 8:59 pm

    That pause when they ask how he’s gonna get out is absolutely golden.

  • 303. poolman  |  November 7, 2011 at 8:59 pm

    Wow! Who gets to change his diaper? :shock:

  • 304. Tex Taylor  |  November 7, 2011 at 9:15 pm

    Poolman, what purpose do you serve anymore? You add nothing but stupid and strange shit to the conversation, you’re obviously a major league loser, and apparently have no purpose anymore since you failed at business.

    Why don’t you end the pain and off yourself while you still have some dignity?

    ————-

    I’ll tell you one thing you have proven to me Poolman. My mother once told me there’s somebody out there for everyone while we were looking at some really homely girl once. She didn’t say it to be mean but to make a point.

    To think some woman was not only so desperate she married you, but actually allowed a genetic defect like you to impregnate her only goes to show my mom was right.

  • 305. poolman  |  November 7, 2011 at 9:25 pm

    Corporate culture absolves all of responsibility. This is part of its appeal. It relieves all from moral choice. There is an unequivocal acceptance of ruling principles such as unregulated capitalism and globalization as a kind of natural law.

    http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/finding_freedom_in_handcuffs_20111107/

    Corporate culture serves a faceless system. It is, as Hannah Arendt writes, “the rule of nobody and for this very reason perhaps the least human and most cruel form of rulership.”

  • 306. poolman  |  November 7, 2011 at 10:33 pm

    Poolman, what purpose do you serve anymore?

    I serve a multitude of purposes. Here it seems, I’m often a sponge, soaking up your vitriolic rhetoric, wringing droplets of truth from piles of predominate sludge.

    On better days, I can effectively deflect verbal carnage from other lifeforms exhibiting tenuous external stratum.

    And aside from that “purpose”, you’d miss me if I was gone. :razz:

  • 307. an800lbgorilla  |  November 7, 2011 at 10:45 pm

    OWS in 45 seconds.

  • 308. Tex Taylor  |  November 7, 2011 at 10:51 pm

    And aside from that “purpose”, you’d miss me if I was gone.

    Not that I’m wishing ill will on anyone, but if God forced me to make up a list for divine punishment to be divvied out, besides Pfesser winning the gold medal going away, you would be standing in 2nd place now that Graychin has departed.

    You wouldn’t know truth Poolman if truth held a gun to your head. You’re one of the most dishonest propagandists I’ve ever read.

  • 309. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 7, 2011 at 11:51 pm

    I don’t worry about divine punishment for others.

    That didn’t work out so well for Jonah, and I got enough on my plate working out my own salvation with fear and trembling and pondering my undeserved grace.

    That, and I leave it to the Boss to work out his business in his time.

  • 310. Tex Taylor  |  November 8, 2011 at 12:36 am

    Well, actually Jonah is somebody I kind of relate to, being he sulked when God didn’t follow through with Jonah’s own wishes. You can clearly see why God doesn’t grant me much authority to invoke wrath. :smile: Pfesser would be in a world of hurt. But Jonah’s real punishment was not following directions.

    That was said in jest, of course.

  • 311. poolman  |  November 8, 2011 at 12:42 am

    you would be standing in 2nd place

    Damn. If I take Paul’s advice I guess I got to work harder, since you’re my standard. :grin:

    Come on second wind…

  • 312. poolman  |  November 8, 2011 at 12:55 am

    You wouldn’t know truth Poolman if truth held a gun to your head.

    Now that one’s going in the book, for sure.

    Classic. :mrgreen:

  • 313. Tex Taylor  |  November 8, 2011 at 12:59 am

    Since you’ve never had an original thought in your life, that doesn’t surprise me Brickman. But I’ll give you one thing. Wherever you’re getting your retorts, it’s better that what you came with.

    The master of cut & paste…every time I see these OWS freaks, I think of you. :smile: A true match made in mud.

  • 314. Tex Taylor  |  November 8, 2011 at 1:02 am

    Don’t waste your time trying to “impress me”, straining to get to Pfesser levels. You won’t ever make it.

    You’re much too stupid to be terribly offensive.

    There’s a certain gift at being reprehensible like the world’s worst doctor. Your more like the fly that continues to land on your hamburger at the church picnic.

    Now, put that in your standards book, Brick.

  • 315. Rutherford  |  November 8, 2011 at 1:17 am

    If Herman CainSarah Palin were white, he wasn’t a MILF she would not be standing on the stage in the debates.

    Ah my friend Tex, if only you could have seen the truth about Sarah back in the day. Herman Cain is a direct descendant of Sarah Palin. Back in the day, John McCain made a calculated move to counter the first black Pres with the first female VP and McCain being McCain, he picked the hottest chick he could find. Not a brain in her head, but hot.

    Herman is Sarah 2.0. He appeals to the back-to-basics crowd and is black to boot.

    Unfortunately, unless someone can discredit Ms. Bialek, the Cain train is officially off the track. It’s over.

  • 316. Rutherford  |  November 8, 2011 at 1:21 am

    A sick fucking world you have created, R.

    ROTFLMAO! WTF???? I’m responsible for a couple of wacko lesbians wanting to delay their son’s puberty?

    Sorry, you can’t lay that crap on me. There is, contrary to your myopic view, something known as a sane liberal. I’m one of them.

  • 317. Rutherford  |  November 8, 2011 at 1:28 am

    Corporate culture serves a faceless system

    Poolman, to further illustrate the point, back in 2007 I got laid off over the phone by a manager I never got a chance to meet face to face.

  • 318. Rutherford  |  November 8, 2011 at 1:51 am

    You’re one of the most dishonest propagandists I’ve ever read.

    This coming from a man who accuses OWS protesters of engaging in child prostitution. :roll:

  • 319. Rutherford  |  November 8, 2011 at 1:55 am

    Poor Gorilla. He thinks that if he posts enough videos of fringe wackjobs at the various Occupy rallies that I will say “Ooooo they’re evil … don’t have a single valid point …. ooooooo put them all in jail.”

    Keep posting the vids G. All they do is distract from the basic message. People are tired of getting screwed over and one way or the other there is going to be a serious push for change.

    One concrete outcome from OWS is the “Move Your Money” campaign where a bunch of folks moved their money from big banks to small community banks and credit unions. Ironically, I just opened a business account with Chase and part of me feels guilty as hell about doing so. :-(

  • 320. thorsaurus  |  November 8, 2011 at 2:57 am

    “Not that I’m wishing ill will on anyone, but if God forced me to make up a list for divine punishment to be divvied out,” – Tex

    The Tulsa Inquisition? Not an invite I’d be hoping for. ;)

  • 321. huckingfypocrites  |  November 8, 2011 at 3:14 am

    “Poolman, to further illustrate the point, back in 2007 I got laid off over the phone by a manager I never got a chance to meet face to face.”

    I got that beat…

    In 2002 I got laid off 5 days before Christmas. And as I was walking out of the boss’s office, they gave me a company shirt and hat as a Christmas gift.

    Then they turned right around and hired someone to fill my position at .75% of my pay.

    It was the boss’s son-in-law….

  • 322. Tex Taylor  |  November 8, 2011 at 9:25 am

    This coming from a man who accuses OWS protesters of engaging in child prostitution.

    Yet the headline of the local newspaper reads…

    Woman charged with pimping teen recruited at Occupy NH rally

    But I’m the dishonest one.

    A man rolling his eyes at me that accused Tea Party members of using the word nigger screamed at a Civil Rights legend, though he never cashed in Andrew Breitbart’s award of $100K, made accusations of murder of the Tea Party on this very blog, accused Sarah Palin of influencing a madman to shoot Gabby Giffords, made insinuation that Sarah named her son after his genetic abnormality, defended Obama, Obama, Obama failed promises in every way possible, until it became even too much for him, etc. etc. etc.

    This entire blog is rank propaganda – but it keeps me coming back to make fun of…

    Worth the three roll…
    :roll: :roll: :roll:

  • 323. PFesser  |  November 8, 2011 at 9:56 am

    Like those of Rutherford’s I disagree with most of the Poolman’s positions, but I like to read them if for no other reason than he ad R are basically gentlemen. In my opinion P’s contribution to the blog is not his his scathing mockery of the frauds and hypocrites and liars who populate our government and news media – although that’s pretty good. It’s the alternative model of anger that he offers. This is how we should conduct ourselves when we’re pissed off. With a little humor, a little sense of proportion – a little class, for god’s sake.

    Class. Remember that word?

    He understands that others may be just as fond of their opinions as he is, and accepts those opinions graciously, even if he disagrees. Outrage is all well and good, but it doesn’t always have to be purple-in-the-face stupid.

    Kind of a nice counterpoint.

    Carry on in a strong fashion, Gentlemen…

  • 324. poolman  |  November 8, 2011 at 1:38 pm

    Thanks, Pfesser.

    I know we are distant ideologically, though politically we often traverse common ground. I have appreciated your civility also. It goes a long way toward being “heard”. If we truly want to impact others and shape perspective, respect must adorn the platform.

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