Some Thoughts on Life Post-Osama

It is almost two weeks since a team of Navy SEALs found and killed Osama bin Laden a mere 20 or so miles from the capital of Pakistan. Here are some thoughts in no particular order on the current state of affairs.

Oh That McCain is Such a RINO

Just when decent human beings are ready to totally give up on Senator John McCain, he goes and does something honorable. On the floor of the Senate on Thursday, McCain repeated information obtained from CIA Director Leon Panetta. Various Bush administration alumni have been beating their chest about the role “enhanced interrogation techniques”, i.e. torture, played in the capture of Osama bin Laden. Sadly, even folks from the White House have been ambiguous about this role, including statements from NSA Tom Donilon suggesting that any torture was part of a grand mosaic of techniques leading to Osama. McCain, long an opponent of torture, having been a victim of it while in Vietnam, set the record straight stating definitively that the trail to Osama did not begin with any enhanced interrogation by Americans. In fact, the interrogation that identified the courier who eventually led to bin Laden, was not even conducted by Americans.

Of course, we know that McCain couldn’t possibly have any credibility on this subject since he is and always has been just a RINO. Any true red-blooded American knows that if you want to get a Muslim terrorist to talk, you torture him.

Kill the Man, Then Embarrass Him

I don’t know about you but I find it a little odd after you kill a guy to then go on a campaign of humiliation. In the aftermath of bin Laden’s death, we’ve seen an old weathered bin Laden pathetically watching himself in his glory days on TV, drinking Viagra juice and loading up on Coca Cola and pornography. Now don’t get me wrong. I’m not asking for any sort of “respect for the dead” regarding bin Laden but it seems to me once you shoot a guy in the eye, subsequent attempts at humiliation are anticlimactic.

Pakistan Taliban Avenges bin Laden Murder by Killing … Muslims

This week over 80 people were killed when suicide bombers struck a paramilitary center in Pakistan. The Pakistani Taliban took credit for the incident claiming it was revenge for the killing of Osama bin Laden. As of this writing, there is no proof of any connection between the bombers and the Taliban but if we are to take their word for it, it just underscores what many of us have known for a while now. Far more Muslims have been killed by al Qaeda and its sympathizers than any other group of people. It makes you wonder why more decent Muslims do not decry the terrorist behavior of their radical brothers.

The Ultimate Insult: Treating Muslims like the Mentally Ill

I had an epiphany of sorts this week while watching my usual dose of MSNBC. Since his murder, a debate has raged about whether or not to release photos of the dead bin Laden. Proponents of  releasing the photos say this will send a message to the world that you don’t mess with the United States of America. Opponents of the release say it will inflame the Muslim world and feed anti-American propaganda. As someone who vociferously condemned the behavior of Pastor Terry Jones when he burned a Koran recently, I have had a bit of an about-face.

There is only one good reason not to release the photos of Osama bin Laden’s corpse and that is simple common decency. The man still has relatives in several countries who have never threatened the United States, many of whom have disowned him. They do not deserve to see their relative with a gaping head wound. It also lowers us to the level of ancient Roman attendees at the Coliseum to engage in such blood-lust.

One reason that should be dismissed however is that these photos will inflame the Muslim world. For some reason, listening to my favorite liberal pundits on MSNBC this week, I thought, wait a minute, if we substituted black for Muslim, how would I feel about blacks being portrayed as savages who cannot control their behavior and will be set off into crazed violence by a photograph? Indeed I have had a reader or two in an attempt to bait me, suggest that if Obama loses the 2012 election there will be riots in the streets, carrying the not so subtle suggestion that blacks cannot control themselves.

The time has come to stop treating Muslims like the mentally ill and make them accountable for their behavior. Is it impolite to burn a Koran? Damn straight it is. Is it proper provocation for the insulted to go on a killing spree? Not just no, but hell no! I am beginning to find it fascinating that decent Muslims seem to stand by and not be offended by a media that portrays them as hair-trigger lunatics. I think we have moved from respect and consideration to condescension. Do we think Muslims are somehow lesser than we? We can control our behavior and they can’t? When a mentally disturbed person or a mentally disabled person commits a violent crime we usually give him a pass of sorts. It is what the mental deficiency, insanity defense is all about. Are we now really saying that Muslims are mentally disturbed? Isn’t this a far greater insult than a disrespectful caricature of Mohammed?

I think in the name of ending Islamaphobia, it’s high time we stop referring to “radical Muslims” and start calling them what they are, common criminals. We should feel free to express ourselves, no matter how offensively, and expect lively debate and possibly condemnation to ensue. When the insulted party turns to violence, he loses his status as righteous victim and earns the title of thug.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

WordPress.com Political Blogger Alliance

Advertisements

117 thoughts on “Some Thoughts on Life Post-Osama

  1. “Since his murder, a debate has raged about whether or not to release photos of the dead bin Laden.”

    So your position is that bin Laden was murdered?

  2. Huck, interesting point. I really was using murder as a synonym for killing not taking into account the “illegal” aspect of the definition. American Heritage Dictionary also defines murder as “to kill brutally” and depending on your perspective, a shot in the head might be considered brutal. Then again, it might be considered merciful … quick and over with.

    In any case, I get your point and no, I’m not casting any aspersions on our taking out bin Laden.

  3. R –

    Nice job. Several points I had never thought of.

    One of the chronic Fat Grannie-goers tried to bait me about the “enhanced interrogation techniques,” thinking that as a “conservative” – wrong there – that I would be in favor of it. He didn’t get his wish. I agreed with him and he sat there with his finger up his, er, nose.

    Same with the RINO argument. It’s always funny how humans classify themselves – and others – in certain groups, and anyone who disagrees with them is automatically a hated member of the “other” group. But if that person should then agree on a major point, they are like the dog that chases the car and catches it – they are befuddled and don’t know what to do with the damned thing.

    Same with McCain. I had planned on voting for him BECAUSE he wouldn’t be led by the nose and was his own man – that is, until he sold out his principles and accepted the perceived expediency of Sarah GodForbid Palin. Now he is beginning to look like he found those principles again. By god I hope so.

    Anyway, great post.

  4. Here is a different account of “Operation Geronimo” that greatly contradicts the official story, a story that keeps changing and has grown “legs”, so to speak…

    The eyewitness who lived opposite the Waziristan House says the following:

    1) Only one US chopper dropped a dozen or so commandos on the ground
    2) The commandos were Pushto speaking, Afghan, Pakistani or other
    3) The chopper dropped the commandos and went to the hills
    4) The chopper returned and then crashed.
    5) Two other choppers came but they never came near the compound, and once the chopper crashed they fled the scene of the incident
    The eye witness was on the rooftop of his house and watched everything. One the chopper had crashed, he and several dozen folks in the neighborhood went inside the compound. They found the area littered with bodies of Americans. The eye witness questioned the US narrative.

    One day we will find the truth,

    McCain trying to redeem himself is quite pitiful, really. At least he came out and spoke truthfully here. There is so little truth and integrity in American politics and the media today. I can’t understand how anyone believes the stuff the media cooks up and feeds to us.

  5. I will see your McCain/Panetta claim and raise you a Cheney/Rumsfeld claim.

    “WASHINGTON (AFP) – Harsh interrogation methods such as waterboarding played a role in tracking down Osama bin Laden and should be reinstated, former US vice president Dick Cheney said Sunday.

    Another top member of the Bush administration, former defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld, credited the use of so-called “enhanced interrogation techniques” with yielding “a major fraction” of US intelligence on Al-Qaeda and called ending them a “mistake.””

    Of course, we know that Darth Cheney and Rummy couldn’t possibly have any credibility on this subject since they are and always have been just liars. Any red-blooded American knows that if you want to get a Muslim terrorist to talk, you ask him nicely.

    Rutherford, feel free to show us the proof of which claim is wrong.

  6. “Why waste lots of time on analyzing Gingrich’s chances? Do ya really think we’re gonna elect a man named Newt? ”

    Yeah. It’s not a normal name like, say…Barack Hussein Obama.

  7. Comparisons like that only work if you begin with the assumption that everything going on in an interrogation works on a biological level. Because, other than their ideology regarding Jews, biology is about the only thing a WWII Nazi and a modern Islamist have in common.

  8. I would also point out that there is a very real possibility that the post-war Germans that were questioned by those in the article were not true believers in the Nazi cause. They may have been fighting a war because they were forced to.

    By contrast, a vast majority of Islamists are fighting a war they want to fight. Their mindset regarding the enemy, and what information to give him, would be different from a conscript.

  9. I think of Islamism as being like the rabiesvirus. Once it gets in the brain there is no treatment. You have to destroy the animal before it creates havoc or gives the virus to another animal.

    Just that simple.

  10. Well of course you are right, the Germans felt no compulsion to keep their weapon systems a secret; nothing like preventing the deaths of thousands of their fellow Germans, including their wives, mothers, or children. Nazi retribution against them or their families never entered their minds and they were not the least bit concerned about losing the war. Everyone knows, life was good in German between the World Wars, The Treaty of Versailles was very favorable to Germany, so they must have thought, so what, tell the Allies anything they want to know.

  11. Please show us where in that article it says anything about defensive secrets being given up. Because rockets and subs are offensive weapons and would not have been keeping anyone’s wife, daughter or mother safe.

    Please show us where it says the Nazis were informed that those secrets were being given, and by whom. Make sure you debunk where it says that their capture was being kept secret, since you seem to think the revenge-seeking Nazis knew all about it.

    And none of that is really even the point.

    You can’t make assumptions about what 1 person will do based on what you think or are told in an undetailed article that other people did. Do you really think John McCain would have spilled his guts to his NVA captors if only they had taken him out for steak dinners?

    If we take Rutherford’s words literally, there is nothing that says enhanced interrogation didn’t get the info from KSM…only that US enhanced interrogation didn’t.

    “…the trail to Osama did not begin with any enhanced interrogation by Americans…”

    “…the interrogation that identified the courier who eventually led to bin Laden, was not even conducted by Americans…”

    If you want to base your conclusions on assumptions and what you think something says, you are free to do so. Some of us prefer facts.

  12. Amazing. Here we are spending billions on intelligence to keep America safe and all we really have to do is set up a falafel bar at Gitmo?

    Who knew?…Well, who but, NOP, of course….

  13. Well Huck, I interpreted McCain’s statement to say that the information about the courier not only didn’t come from US interrogation but didn’t come from KSM either.

    I will give you this, there is a detail missing … did the non-American interrogators use enhanced techniques on whomever gave up the courier? If so, it gives a bit of a boost to the technique, just not OUR use of the technique.

  14. I need to amend 15. Upon listening to McCain again, I heard him say that the key information regarding the courier was conducted via standard interrogation techniques.

  15. Hucking, my point, and perhaps I should have been more explicit, has nothing to do with defensive or offensive weapons. It really is, what has changed our culture or has our culture changed? Do we treat enemies most like us differently than we do enemies those culture, religion or race are less like our own more harshly? Does anyone actually think John McCain had any secret information that would have been valuable to North Vietnam? I think, John McCain was a valuable prisoner, because of who his father was.

  16. “…via standard interrogation techniques.”

    Since he also says it wasn’t us who did it, it begs the question, what is the standard of those who did (supposedly) do it?

    And I am guessing we are left with dueling hearsay arguments on this? I just don’t see where Panetta and McCain trump Cheney and Rumsfeld on their word, alone.

    “It really is, what has changed our culture or has our culture changed? Do we treat enemies most like us differently than we do enemies those culture, religion or race are less like our own more harshly?”

    Which really has absolutely no bearing on the discussion we were having. The discussion was the effectiveness of enhanced interrogation. Not the morality of it. And judging by the article you previously linked, I think you’re aware of that.

    “I think, John McCain was a valuable prisoner, because of who his father was.”

    Yes. And they tortured him because they wanted him to say things on camera because of who his father was. That doesn’t change the fact that they tortured him in order to get him to say things he didn’t want to say. Do you think a nice dinner and a casual game of chess would have got him to change his mind? I don’t….

  17. Sorry to blow my own horn but I ended the weekend with a bang by discovering that one of my recent articles was recommended by “Interview with a Vampire” author Anne Rice on her Facebook page.

    I’m savoring it as it probably represents the pinnacle of my writing “career”. It’s all down hill from here, 😉

  18. If torture worked, we would have known where bin Laden was a long time ago and apparently that was not the case.

  19. What do you think we have been debating this whole time?

    Also…I see Anne Rice is recommending this oldie but goodie. Nice going, Rutherford. This is bigger than when The New Republic called me an “idiot” for calling for a boycott of Absolut Vodka!

  20. Well Huck, I interpreted McCain’s statement to say that the information about the courier not only didn’t come from US interrogation but didn’t come from KSM either.” – R

    Wrong.

    I would also point out this, let’s say this info had been acquired by standard interogation tactics, do you think that the willingness of the detainee to provide this information may have been influenced by the use of previous enhanced interogation techniques?

    Secondly, I believe it was the last thread you said this, but it was along the lines that it wasn’t even Americans that interogated him. We use legal, enhanced techniques that cause no bodily harm and with a fleet of medical professionals on standby in case of any arrising issue. Do you really think others countries, especially ones that would be closer to the terrorism fight, have the same intergoation proceadures?

    Waterboarding makes you THINK you are drowning. Sleep deprivation, light saturation, audio saturation- these all do one thing: mess with your head. Really, it is torture because he is… tired? I have to listen to rap music every day because some ass clown can’t roll up his window, shall I call Geneva?

    These guys train on counter-interrogation tactics, which focuses on building mental walls to protect information. In order to get this information, the walls and mental guards must be attacked. If someone is deathly afraid of bugs, when one guy was, then a couple grasshoppers go a long way, which they did. He wasn’t eaten by locusts, but a weakness in his mental armor was identified and exploited. There is nothing wrong with that and you guys continue to intentionally conflate torture with enhanced interrogation techniques. They are not the same and they are not comparable.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survival,_Evasion,_Resistance_and_Escape

  21. This one belongs to you R, lock stock and barrel…

    Former US House Member Ashamed of US Policies

    TEHRAN (FNA)- Former member of the US House of Representatives Cynthia Anne McKinney said she is truly ashamed of her country’s policies.

    Addressing an international conference dubbed ‘International Coalition against Terrorism for Fair Peace’ here in Tehran on Saturday, the former US House member urged Washington to avoid imposing its will on the world nations through the use of force, violence and weapons.

    “As an American, I am upset with the policies of my country, but the measures adopted by the first Afro-American president of the United States has ashamed us all,” she said.

    “If there is no truth, there won’t be any justice, and today the US policies are rooted in lies, injustice and war,” she continued.

    Noting the United States’ aggravating economic conditions, she said the high rate of infant death toll in the United States is even worse than the European Union.

    “The United States used to be a rich country, but now it is a country under hegemony whose economic policies promote plunder of the world,” she added.

    “(the late) Martin Luther King once said that the US has guided missiles, but has no guided man,” McKinney added.”

  22. (Powerline) — Economists Timothy Conley and Bill Dupor have studied the effects of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (the purported stimulus bill) with great rigor. Earlier this week, they reported their findings in a paper titled “The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act: Public Sector Jobs Saved, Private Sector Jobs Forestalled.” The paper is dense and rather lengthy, and requires considerable study. Here, however, is the bottom line:

    Our benchmark results suggest that the ARRA created/saved approximately 450 thousand state and local government jobs and destroyed/forestalled roughly one million private sector jobs. State and local government jobs were saved because ARRA funds were largely used to offset state revenue shortfalls and Medicaid increases rather than boost private sector employment. The majority of destroyed/forestalled jobs were in growth industries including health, education, professional and business services.

    And guess what R, those government jobs that were saved at the state and local level, yeah, they’re about to get the axe because there are no more federal dollars paying for them. So, your Hope and Change destroyed some 1 million private sector jobs and is about to kill another 450,000 government jobs too. Winning!

    Yes, the study is pretty handy, but we didn’t need it. We’ve got 100+ weeks of unemployment payments, 9% unemployment, and 1.8% quarterly GDP growth. I’m no economist, but that was enough to tell me that there weren’t a lot of private sector jobs…

  23. It’s important to the left to continue the morality play of the enhance interrogation versus torture debate. It’s image the left likes to advance about both sides, e.g. conservatives love to torture because they are cruel aggressors, while the left likes to provide conspicuous accommodations and what it conceives to be due process to symbolize their own compassion. For that reason, the left will not be truthful or objective about how the information came about in this instance. I’ll wager steak dinners didn’t have anything to do with it.

  24. The Raymond Davis/bin Laden connection.

    Sources tell us that the “lifelines” that kept what has been identified as Osama bin Laden safe inside Pakistan were operated under the supervision of CIA operative Raymond Davis. There were two safehouses in Abbottabad, one for “bin Laden,” the other for the CIA. We are told that this explains why there was no Al Qaeda security detail. The CIA was in charge of that.

  25. I can’t even see her Facebook page…

    Huck, I wonder if she blocks conservatives. 😀

    Since, in FB jargon, it’s a “fan page” you should be able to find it just by searching in Facebook for Anne Rice.

  26. Actually, Anne Rice jumped the shark with The Tale of the Body Thief, and although I still suffered through Memnoch the Devil, it was clear to me that she lost it.

    The Vampire Lestat is without a doubt, her best work.

    That doesn’t make her any more or less qualified to pontificate on the right to murder unborn children as anyone else.

  27. “Actually, Anne Rice jumped the shark with The Tale of the Body Thief, and although I still suffered through Memnoch the Devil, it was clear to me that she lost it.

    The Vampire Lestat is without a doubt, her best work.” -BWiC

    I feel exactly the same way. I thought the shark was circling through the last half of Queen of the Damned, but I totally threw in the towel at the point you apparently did too. I did like The Witching Hour a lot, but Lasher killed that series right quick after that. I read some of her erotic works too, but I couldn’t tolerate much of that. Pretty outlandish stuff, let me tell you. I thought Neil Whatshisname did a great job with the “Interview” movie and I do hope someone does Lestat some day.

    So evidently Anne Rice is going through this thing where she has quit being a Christian. I haven’t sought out the details but I recall she did make that known a while back.

  28. That doesn’t make her any more or less qualified to pontificate on the right to murder unborn children as anyone else.

    I’m not sure anyone here is “qualified” to pontificate on the right to an abortion.

    But interestingly, BiW, she prefaces her recommendation of my article by saying “I am not pro-abortion”. You see, you can be pro-life up the wazoo and still agree with my post’s premise.

    Honestly, I’ve never read any of her work and I’m not particularly into goth, but it’s still kinda cool to be noticed by someone who’s sold a crap load of books.

  29. This is bigger than when The New Republic called me an “idiot” for calling for a boycott of Absolut Vodka!

    LOL Huck I’d call it a draw. Heck, I’d be very honored if The National Review called me an idiot. 🙂

  30. WOMEN

    A real woman is a man’s best friend.
    She will never stand him up and never let him down.
    She will reassure him when he feels insecure and comfort him after a bad day.
    She will inspire him to do things he never thought he could do; to live without fear and forget regret.
    She will enable him to express his deepest emotions and give in to his most intimate desires.
    She will make sure he always feels as though he’s the most handsome man in the room and will enable him to be the most confident, sexy, seductive and invincible…

    No wait…Sorry.

    I’m thinking of whiskey. It’s whiskey that does all that shit.

    Never mind.

  31. gorilla –

    Glad I had finished my coffee or I would need to buy yet another Mac, since they don’t warranty liquid damage.

  32. Funny G. Hate to toss cold water on your joke but I wonder if that is why so many men cheat … looking for that impossible model of the perfect woman?

    Just heard about Ahhhhnold today. Damn, guy’s dicks get them into hot water all the time. 😐

  33. Over the past month and a half, seven members of Congress–six of whom are members of the Democratic Socialists of America–have written letters to U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder and President Barack Obama on behalf of radical extremists whose homes were raided by the FBI last September.

    The raids took place in Chicago and Minnesota, where 23 individuals were targeted by the FBI’s Joint Terrorism Task Force. The individuals are anti-war and international solidarity activists with possible links to funding Hamas and other terrorist organizations, including Hezbollah and the Marxist F.A.R.C. (Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia).

    U.S. Representatives and Democratic Socialists of America members; Jan Schakowsky (D-IL), Luis Gutierrez (D-IL), John Conyers (D-MI), Danny Davis (D-IL), Jim McDermott (D-WA), and Keith Ellison (D-MN) have all written letters to either President Obama or Eric Holder regarding the status of the ongoing investigation. Representative David Price (D-NC) has also joined these socialist members of Congress on behalf of the radical extremists.

    http://rebelpundit.com/2011/05/16/jan-schakowsky-co-go-to-bat-for-radical-extremists-raided-by-fbi/

  34. Ahem…

    Of the 204 new Obamacare waivers President Barack Obama’s administration approved in April, 38 are for fancy eateries, hip nightclubs and decadent hotels in House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi’s Northern California district.

    That’s in addition to the 27 new waivers for health care or drug companies and the 31 new union waivers Obama’s Department of Health and Human Services approved.

    Pelosi’s district secured almost 20 percent of the latest issuance of waivers nationwide, and the companies that won them didn’t have much in common with companies throughout the rest of the country that have received Obamacarewaivers.

    Other common waiver recipients were labor union chapters, large corporations, financial firms and local governments. But Pelosi’s district’s waivers are the first major examples of luxurious, gourmet restaurants and hotels getting a year-long pass from Obamacare.
    http://dailycaller.com/2011/05/17/nearly-20-percent-of-new-obamacare-waivers-are-gourmet-restaurants-nightclubs-fancy-hotels-in-nancy-pelosi’s-district/

  35. When I was researching my book, “Courting Disaster,” I interviewed many of them, including Col. Bud Day, who received our nation’s highest award for valor, the Medal of Honor, for his heroic escape from a North Vietnamese prison camp. When Day was returned to the prison, his right arm was broken in three places and he had been shot in the hand and thigh during his capture. But he continued to resist interrogation and provide false information — suffering such excruciating torture that he became totally physically debilitated and unable to perform even the simplest task for himself. In short, Day is an expert on the subject of torture. Here is what he says about CIA waterboarding:

    “I am a supporter of waterboarding. It is not torture. Torture is really hurting someone. Waterboarding is just scaring someone, with no long-term injurious effects. It is a scare tactic that works.”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/post/mccains-fellow-pows-support-waterboarding/2011/05/16/AF0f374G_blog.html

  36. Gorilla, there’s no point arguing that water boarding doesn’t constitute torture to the left. It messes up their narrative. Cruel oppressor versus compassionate liberal. That’s why R wants so desperately to prove that there’s no connection between water boarding and Obama’s big trophy victory. Steak dinners and a handful of skittles straight from the unicorn’s ass. That’s how you get good intel. 🙄

  37. Interesting contrast between GWB and Bo. One thing I have to say about GWB is that he is universally reported as respectful and considerate of his staff and particularly military staff. (In great contradistinction to Clinton, especially Hillary, I might add.)

    George W. Bush speech after capture of Saddam:
    The success of yesterday’s mission is a tribute to our men and women now serving in Iraq . The operation was based on the superb work of intelligence analysts who found the dictator’s footprints in a vast country. The operation was carried out with skill and precision by a brave fighting force. Our servicemen and women and our coalition allies have faced many dangers in the hunt for members of the fallen regime, and in their effort to bring hope and freedom to the Iraqi people. Their work continues, and so do the risks. Today, on behalf of the nation, I thank the members of our Armed Forces and I congratulate ’em.

    Barack Obama speech after killing of bin Laden:
    And so shortly after taking office, I directed Leon Panetta, the director of the CIA, to make the killing or capture of bin Laden the top priority of our war against al Qaeda, even as we continued our broader efforts to disrupt, dismantle, and defeat his network. Then, last August, after years of painstaking work by our intelligence community, I was briefed on a possible lead to bin Laden. It was far from certain, and it took many months to run this thread to ground. I met repeatedly with my national security team as we developed more information about the possibility that we had located bin Laden hiding within a compound deep inside of Pakistan . And finally, last week, I determined that we had enough intelligence to take action, and authorized an operation to get Osama bin Laden and bring him to justice. Today, at my direction, the United States launched a targeted operation against that compound in Abbottabad , Pakistan .

  38. So, that penny stock I mentioned a month or two ago (BORK) hit 3 bucks today.

    Supposedly the military confirmed the results of the super metal this week.

    I also found this, although it doesn’t name the company:

    http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2011/03/marine-details-of-new-helmet-uncertain-030611w/

    My Bull Shit meter is still obviously high and I should probably cash in and by a massive flat screen TV.

    But damn, I can’t do it. Can you imagine how much money could be made if they got a military contract.

  39. I can understand somebody banging a chick behind their wife’s back. Without a doubt, sexy tits and ass are more tempting then all the rest of the world’s temptations combined.

    I hide from chicks. Its the only way I have never cheated on my wife. I will no-show any social situation that might include sexy sluts. For example, I didn’t go to my 20 year reunion because my wife couldn’t make it.

    I’d end up rocking the big tittied Pom Pom Captain in the parking lot, her two divorces and smoker’s cough finally putting her in an eager dead rabbit’s league after 20 years.

    But, can you imagine getting a boner and saying “fuck it, I’m a powerful person, I’m gonna force feed my dick to the hotel maid.” The monetary gangster thought he could get a blow job by magical fiat like the paper his buddies grow on trees at our expense.

    Or maybe even more cowardly, not owning up to a child because you’re too much of a pussy? I can’t imagine secretly fathering a child. Fucking lizard like.

    Awnold’s kid is ten years old. For ten years, the kid had a Dad too ashamed to admit it. It aint right.

    The media keeps talking about how much Maria has been wronged. What about the kid?

    I love my boy so much, I can’t imagine turning my back on him, no matter the circumstances.

  40. Rutherford, just when I think you’ve moved past saying tragically stupid things, you go and say something dumber than the last dumb thing you said.

    That last comment you left at my place…geez, I really need to start a dumb comment Hall of Fame, and that last one, my friend, goes straight to Number One.

  41. For ten years, the kid had a Dad too ashamed to admit it. It aint right.

    100% on target.

    As for the IMF guy … I guess you never get too old to be a horny fool. That mofo is in his 60’s and he’s trying to rape maids? WTF??!!!

  42. BiW, I wish I were better versed in Rousseau since from what I see in my Wikipedia version of his stuff, he suggests that everyone’s freedom is actually enhanced when they are compelled by the government to behave properly.

  43. BiW, R’s comment explains everything, doesn’t it?

    My favorite was your “literal” interpretation of the Consitution rather than what’s right and wrong.

    Sorry R. You deserve a trophy for that comment. Quite telling.

  44. “(Boston Herald) — The White House Press Office has refused to give the Boston Herald full access to President Obama’s Boston fund-raiser today, in e-mails objecting to the newspaper’s front page placement of a Mitt Romney op-ed, saying pool reporters are chosen based on whether they cover the news “fairly.”

    “I tend to consider the degree to which papers have demonstrated to covering the White House regularly and fairly in determining local pool reporters,” White House spokesman Matt Lehrich wrote in response to a Herald request for full access to the presidential visit.

    “My point about the op-ed was not that you ran it but that it was the full front page, which excluded any coverage of the visit of a sitting US President to Boston. I think that raises a fair question about whether the paper is unbiased in its coverage of the President’s visits,” Lehrich wrote.”

  45. G, I think you needed commentary on that first Rand Paul video so I know whether you’re endorsing Paul’s position. His conflating abortion with light bulbs borders on offensive. I get his point but here’s the funny part. I can turn his argument right around on him … his party thinks you need to stay out of his business when it comes to something relatively trivial like light bulbs and toilets but they want carte blanche to get into a woman’s pants and tell her how to handle what comes out of her vagina.

    His analogy was downright stupid and highlights GOP hypocrisy just as much as it might highlight the hypocrisy of the woman being cross examined. (Let’s not forget he’s making a helluva assumption that she’s pro-choice in the first place.)

  46. Oh G, I noticed you just posted a race relations blog entry. I’ll have to eat lunch before I read it since a quick skim already got my blood boiling. 😐

  47. Yeah, replacing light bulbs and toilets is a trivial issue that is nothing more than being about light bulbs and toilets, and has absolutely nothing to do with the money required to replace them.

    I say let’s make a deal. Republicans will keep out of the pants of women if Democrats will keep out of the wallets of EVERYONE.

  48. “but they want carte blanche to get into a woman’s pants and tell her how to handle what comes out of her vagina.”

    They do? I thought we cared about what went in.

    Your premise is false and you are trivializing the point.

  49. “Hmmm, I wonder whether there is any other information that Obama might not want released at everyone’s time and expense so he can politically capitalize on it. . .”

    That must be why the OBL photos are being kept from us.

  50. Step one, lump the doubters (deathers?) in with you adversary — like the Tea Party.

    Step two call them stupid, racist, intolerant and menacing. Mock and ridicule them with as broad a brush as possible to include your political adversaries.

    Step three, act personally offended — the left will run to your defense because you need defending — you’re the president after all.

    Step four, whatever you do, don’t dispel the theories too early — no matter what you do — that would be an affront because having to do so is beneath you — well, only if you’re black.

    Step five, spend as much resources and attention as you can on the subject when your personal failings might become a topic of discussion.

    Step seven: release the info — pretend it’s done so reluctantly — and play the victim for having to do it.

    Step eight, blame Bush.

    Lather, rinse, repeat.

  51. Yeah, replacing light bulbs and toilets is a trivial issue that is nothing more than being about light bulbs and toilets, and has absolutely nothing to do with the money required to replace them.

    To say nothing of the presumption that says the common people are simply too stupid to make decisions for themselves about the kind of lights they use, the quality and brightness of the light, or how much water they use to consign last night’s burritos to be the latest sewer rat rafts, and the arrogance to believe that although we simply cannot be trusted with such decisions, they are.

    It would be breath taking if it wasn’t so infuriating.

  52. “…but they want carte blanche to get into a woman’s pants and tell her how to handle what comes out of her vagina.”

    Lines like this really get under my skin. There’s nothing there to work with. Maybe I just don’t understand it. So how does this work? Who is “they” and what is it exactly that you think they want?

  53. The Tea Party, Muffy. The Tea Party wants to get in YOUR pants. Men and women alike — and of course those Tea Party fetuses. All of them want to keep you from being able to terminate life for any reason. 🙄

    It’s obviously Liberal Speak. It doesn’t have to make sense so long as victim v. aggressor paradigm is maintained.

  54. BiW, you got a problem with the government’s function, the nudge? Or are you going to get all hung up on that Constitution mumbo jumbo that gets in the way?

  55. BiW, you got a problem with the government’s function, the nudge? Or are you going to get all hung up on that Constitution mumbo jumbo that gets in the way?

    I suppose that depends on how you define “problem”.

    I consider it a problem that petty tyrants would all be gross tyrants if given the opportunity or sufficient apathy to make all their wet dreams come true.

    I consider it a problem that government has all the focus and vision of the neighborhood busybody, and all the power necessary to convince people that it can and should dictate and regulate the minutea of people’s lives.

    I consider it a problem that people like Rutherford want to be led by the nose to what is “right” by an entity that continues to become more intrusive and bossy, and that refuses to recognize the true nature of the relationship between it and the people it would govern, or the restraints that those people rightfully have upon its ambitions and jurisdiction.

    So if that is having a problem with “nudge”, then I guess the answer is yes, I have a problem.

  56. “tell her how to handle what comes out of her vagina.”-R

    I assume you came out of your Mom’s vagina.

    And while it appears the cord was wrapped around your neck to the point where your baby killer friends would debate the worth of your life, you are a person deserving of much more dignity then to be referred to as a “what”.

  57. Rabbit,
    Here we go again. First, not that it really matters, my disability has nothing to do with oxygen deprivation during birth (I think you’re thinking of cerebral palsy which I don’t have … not that there’s anything wrong with that.)

    Second … I KNOW A BABY ISN’T A “WHAT”. The indecisiveness that I have on the subject (as I’ve stated countless times) is the government having dominion over the body of another. If a state is considered sovereign than by God what is the human body?

    The termination of life at any stage is enough to make your mind clear. I’m not there yet.

  58. Completely off topic:
    The Lawson’s had a choice to make this year and we’ve been putting it off but the time has finally come. We decided a week and a half ago to sell the house rather than wait until we ran out of money (scheduled to occur sometime 3rd quarter). We picked a great broker and a great price and we have already accepted an offer and the house is under deposit.

    We are not going to get what we paid for it. No surprise there. But we’re not under water either. Our spare time is now spent figuring out where the hell we’re gonna go. Clearly out of Connecticut which has become too damn expensive. Current thoughts are Florida (my sister is there), Illinois (my wife’s family is there) or … brace yourselves … Texas where there is high tech and good home prices.

    So we eliminated the stress of fearing a foreclosure down the road but replaced it by needing to figure out how to not wind up in a van down by the river.

    Wish us luck. I’m almost leaning toward Texas just so I can infect them with my Yankee liberal ways. 😆

  59. No, you clearly called it a “what”. You can’t go back and forth like that.

    Maybe you are a “what”. Hell, what if your disability one day makes you a burden on society. Why would it be the governments business if a few of us decided to kill you?

    What makes an 3 month old baby more human then a baby in the womb for 14 weeks? I want an answer to this question, Mr. Nuanced Harvard.

    The murder of a 3 month old in your community would keep you up at night. The murder of an unborn child in your same community causes you to wax eloquently about women’s rights after yawning.

    Throw in the self centered and materialistic reasons for 94 percent of all abortions and, man oh man, your just as bad as a Nazi sympathizer.

  60. Good luck. I’m in my new house now. Walking away was the smartest thing I’ve ever done, even if they do try to make me a serf again over the deficiency.

  61. R, why don’t you head to Florida. You can find a nice new home in Caveman’s former district.

    As for my blog entry, I’ve heard you threats before…and I’m still waiting on most of them.

    I’ll tell you, two things triggered this response from me.

    1)Although some have heralded recent political and cultural developments as signaling the arrival of a postracial era in America, several legal and social controversies regarding ‘‘reverse racism’’ highlight Whites’ increasing concern about anti-White bias. We show that this emerging belief reflects Whites’ view of racism as a zero-sum game, such that decreases in perceived bias against Blacks over the past six decades are associated with increases in perceived bias against Whites—a relationship not observed in Blacks’ perceptions. Moreover, these changes in Whites’ conceptions of racism are extreme enough that Whites have now come to view anti-White bias as a bigger societal problem than anti-Black bias.

    I do not believe that whites (whatever the hell that means) have a zero-sum game view of race relations. In fact, I think a very strong argument can be made that it is blacks who hold a zero-sum mentality.

    2)CHICAGO — The City of Chicago must hire 111 black firefighter applicants who were passed over for jobs years ago and pay tens of millions of dollars in damages to about 6,000 other black candidates under a ruling issued on Friday by a federal appeals court.

    I’ve said it before, I do not support thinghs like Affirmative Action because I don’t believe race should EVER be the deciding factor, especially when emergency service personnel are decided by race instead of qualifications. That’s what makes this story so infuriating- less qualified, less skilled firefighters so you can have, in the words of Mayor Nagin, “chocolate” firefighters? They should have scored higher on the test, but no, why let skills get in the way of a good race card throw down…

  62. R –
    “Funny G. Hate to toss cold water on your joke but I wonder if that is why so many men cheat … looking for that impossible model of the perfect woman?

    Just heard about Ahhhhnold today. Damn, guy’s dicks get them into hot water all the time.”

    I don’t see it that way – at least the first part, anyway. It pisses me off that they always focus on the man. No man can cheat by himself; for every man sticking it in a woman not his wife, there is a woman he’s sticking it in. It used to be the woman’s fault and we called her a “homewrecker,” since it was assumed that a guy couldn’t resist any trap baited with pussy. (true)

    Times have changed. Now it is the fellow’s fault and we call him a “womanizer.” (Wonder why there are no “man-izers?”) It is still assumed he can’t resist a trap baited with pussy, but instead of blaming the sex with more self-control, they blame the one they presume has less. (again true, in my experience)

    My Pentecostal housekeeper opined that if they would just legalize prostitution the problem would be solved. Strange girl, that. My secretary (I have a home office) is a very cute mulatto just looked at the TV and said to us, “Yep, pounding the staff – happens every time.”

    I told her and my housekeeper that I needed to get friendlier staff.

  63. re: race and the zero sum game.

    Of course it is zero-sum. Every hiring decision is zero-sum; when you hire one man, you have un-hired another one. When you admit an unqualified student to a fine college because of his race, you have denied a qualified student that position for the same reason.

    If I am not mistaken, certain California schools have actually gone so far as to penalize orientals a certain number of points on standardized tests, because the racial balance “wasn’t right” in their schools. I heard an oriental student on the radio several years back complaining that while he sat in his room and studied throughout high school he watched his neighbor’s kid shooting baskets with his friends. Guess which one got in Stanford and which was excluded?

    Which is why – once we get the perspective of time, many hears hence – affirmative action will I believe go down in history as the most foolish exercise the govt has ever engaged in.

  64. “What makes an 3 month old baby more human then a baby in the womb for 14 weeks? I want an answer to this question, Mr. Nuanced Harvard. ”

    If you want something less nuanced and more concrete…What makes a just-completed house more of a house than one with just the floor built, but no walls or roof yet? Which would be the bigger loss if a fire broke out?

    concrete – get it?

    BTW, a 14-week pregnancy is not called a “baby.” It’s called a “fetus.” A baby is what comes out the puss at the end of the building process. Although somewhat arbitrary in terms of the biology, birth is when we all agree that it gets its full legal rights and a name change.

  65. “Although somewhat arbitrary in terms of the biology, birth is when we all agree that it gets its full legal rights and a name change.”

    And still murder if killed while viable. Sorry no name for the grave or the property rights to it. 🙄

  66. PF, that’s a damnmed strange analogy from a medical doctor. I kept thinking of complete trailer homes and half-built Malibu mansions in measuring the loss.

  67. Walking away was the smartest thing I’ve ever done, even if they do try to make me a serf again over the deficiency.

    Rabbit, you probably already guessed this by now but I don’t have your balls. I’ve got digestive agita doing what I’m doing … I can only guess what would happen to my gut if I left BoA high and dry. Besides, if I remember correctly you were under water. I’m not so I can’t quite justify your tactic in my scenario.

  68. R, under water or not, you’ve made a tough call. It’s a life changing decision that makes good sense. You could’ve stuck your head in hopes of avoiding the inevitable, including that day of reckoning with your pride. You got cojones in its purest form. 😯

  69. PFesser, I agree for the most part with your take on the Ahhhnold fiasco. I was going to say something about the other woman when Rabbit talked about avoiding temptation.

    One time a coworker of mine asked me if I would be willing to go to the gym with her husband after work in the evenings. I had a regular routine going and her husband was in that getting started place, and we all know that an exercise partner can be great motivation when you can’t muster it up yourself. Kathy wasn’t interested in exercising (red flag number one and two), so fool that she is – she thought this would be a good idea. But my mama didn’t raise no fool. I said no, straight up. no hesitation.

    As far as self-control – maybe it’s a matter of motivation. In which case the woman may have demonstrated little self-control and much laziness and deliberate meanness. That woman was just as likely interested in Ahnold’s money as in his body. And frankly that’s more offensive (to me anyway) than some guy being led by the hose.

    Rutherford, wow. Well, quite a few of my coworkers have lit out for greener (well, not exactly green I guess) pastures in Texas and for all the reasons you mentioned. Some have said, “we’re just thinking of it as temporary.” Nonetheless, after a time and in every case – they all seem very happy. Where in Illinois if you don’t mind my asking?

  70. “The indecisiveness that I have on the subject (as I’ve stated countless times) is the government having dominion over the body of another. If a state is considered sovereign than by God what is the human body?”

    I’m sorry to have frustrated you Rutherford, I expect I prompted you to clarify your position again too. But for whatever reason, I have never heard this perspective articulated in such a way that it made any sense to me whatsoever until you wrote this (above).

  71. So why do you suppose the Tea Party (I’m assuming Republicans as well) wants this dominion over a woman’s body?

  72. Tigre thanks for the supportive words. Yeah I’ve been sticking my head in the sand for four years now hoping for a change in financial fortune (and working at it too) but to no avail. It came time to face the music.

    It’s funny though how there’s a time for everything. We put the house on the market two or three years ago and it sat for six months without a bite from anyone. I guess it just wasn’t our time to go just yet. This one was like night and day. Hell, we still don’t have a sign out on the front lawn and the house is under deposit!

  73. Muffy. my wife’s family is from the outskirts of Rockford (Winnebago and Pecatonica if that rings any bells). So we’re thinking about there or perhaps a Chicago suburb like Naperville or Aurora.

    Trouble with Aurora is it always reminds me of “Wayne’s World” from SNL. 😦

  74. “If you want something less nuanced and more concrete…What makes a just-completed house more of a house than one with just the floor built, but no walls or roof yet?”

    A floor is an integral part of a home.

    What integral part of a baby in the womb is missing at 14 weeks?

    Exactly what is missing that is so important to you that it gives us the liberty to slaughter them?

    Or maybe we should have the option to snuff out the life of a 3 month old? They can’t do a lot of things an adult can. Do they not have their “floors”?

    By the way, you call them fetuses. Not me. What does that have to do with anything. But then again, I wasn’t talking flooring either.

  75. I’m sorry to have frustrated you Rutherford

    No apology necessary Muffy. My “countless times” verbiage was aimed directly at Rabbit who insists on painting me the “baby killer” when he should know by now that I am incredibly conflicted about the whole thing.

    Perhaps he thinks if he calls me enough names he can convince me to “see the light”? Dunno. 😐

  76. Rutherford,

    I might be a scum bag. But if my house didn’t lose over 50% of its value after 6 years, I never would have walked.

    Hell, the only reason I walked was because I was massively under water and, as a family, made 50 percent less.

    It was a business decision that made sense for me.

    It would be insane to walk in your predicament. Where would the upside be?

  77. “…but they want carte blanche to get into a woman’s pants and tell her how to handle what comes out of her vagina.”

    Read it again, R. They are your words.

    R, what’s the difference between a 20 week old baby in the womb and a 2 month old baby?

    Still waiting for your answer. And, please don’t start talking about hard wood floors and shit.

    Oh I forgot, feigning being “torn” on the issue because you were treated bad by the meanies at some man hating site means you can plead the 5th.

    I aint buying it, coward.

  78. So why do you suppose the Tea Party (I’m assuming Republicans as well) wants this dominion over a woman’s body?

    I think there are two things at play.

    The first is a genuine concern for preserving life. While I don’t believe conservatives have a great track record of supporting life once it leaves the womb, I must give them the benefit of the doubt that they sincerely believe life begins at conception and they want to protect it.

    The second reason is that some conservatives have not gotten used to the woman having the vote. They view male female roles from a 1950’s traditional standard. They consider women the weaker and dumber sex. Yes, they are sexist. Mixed into this are some tinges of religion. So it’s the woman’s job to get pregnant carry to term.

    I’d say the mix between these two types of pro-life people is 75/25.

  79. Oh I forgot, feigning being “torn” on the issue because you were treated bad by the meanies at some man hating site means you can plead the 5th.

    LOL, no one is feigning anything. You think I hover over pro-choice land because a bunch of mysandrists at a fraudulent web site tried to tear me new orifices? C’mon …. I’m not THAT wimpy.

    Rabbit … all you see is the growing life inside the womb. But I see a more complicated issue than that. A pregnant woman is a unique situation morally. It is two lives occupying the same space. I think that complicates matters.

    Now I suppose we could cite legal precedent to settle the matter. Since suicide is illegal, we have already established that we legislate what people can and cannot do with their own lives. So who knows, if suicide is illegal, maybe abortion should be also?

    I don’t see how you don’t see the moral murkiness of this stuff.

  80. “R, what’s the difference between a 20 week old baby in the womb and a 2 month old baby?”

    Jesus fuck me christ. I don’t know if the arch-liberals or the arch-conservatives piss me off more. They both fancy themselves experts on everything and think they can cover their glaring ignorance with vituperative.

    Don’t be such a pussy. That wasn’t R’s post; it was mine. The problem is that I know the answer and you don’t, so it is very tough for me to not say, “Go study the subject and call me.”
    .
    .
    .
    .

    Fuck it; go study and call me. My embryo book in college was by Arey. Here is your material:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/Developmental-Anatomy-EMBRYOLOGY-6th-Edition-AREY-1971-/110528948469

    It is a five-hour course. Three one-hour classes per week and two three-hour labs, staring through the microscope and dissecting embryos. Then a second one in grad school (not as good, BTW).

    Let me know how it goes. When you are done, we can talk. Of course then you won’t need to ask the question…

    “Still waiting for your answer. And, please don’t start talking about hard wood floors and shit. ”

    I didn’t mention “hard wood.” I said “floor” I believe. As you may know, a house starts with the foundation, then the floors, then the walls, then the roof, then the interior. A fetus starts with a zygote, then a blastocyst, then…well, you get the idea.

    Like a house.

    That is the best analogy of which I am aware. Find a better one if you can.

  81. “The second reason is that some conservatives have not gotten used to the woman having the vote. They view male female roles from a 1950′s traditional standard.” 😆

    Yeah. It’s about suffrage and those misogynistic males over the age of 80 that can’t figure out that it’s about woman’s choice and not the termination of life. Gawd I feel dirty. . .

    Liberals sure love a caricature. 🙄

  82. “That is the best analogy of which I am aware. Find a better one if you can.”

    For the value to be placed on the creation of life? Dr. Frankenstein’s monster was at least animated.

  83. Steak dinners and a handful of skittles straight from the unicorn’s ass. That’s how you get good intel. 🙄

    I’ve been meaning to respond to this gem.

    Doesn’t just being alive prove to you Tigre that a person will say ANYTHING to get the pain or the fear to stop? Without any expertise at all I can confidently estimate that 50% of stuff said during enhanced interrogation is pure garbage.

    You’re a lawyer … surely you know that eyewitness testimony under the best of circumstances is faulty. Now you add crap-in-your-pants fear to the mix. And you’ve got the nerve to roll your eyes. Give me a break. 🙄

  84. “Doesn’t just being alive prove to you Tigre that a person will say ANYTHING to get the pain or the fear to stop?”

    You mean like not having dessert if you don’t finish your steak?

    “ANYTHING” of course includes “the truth” and without being an official torturer (I am still studying for lmy certificate) — sometime facts can be corroborated.

    Did you read the stuff PF posted? Do you know that “enhanced” interrogation originally included slapping the prisoner on the belly (we called those “pink-bellies” in grade school.

    So which 50% resulted in your hero’s big trophy killing? The truth or the garbage? I hope you realize that having only placed a 50% on there you undermine your own point.

    I really don’t understand your comment about eye witness testimony. Is that people lie or distort the truth when it serves their interest? Like claiming credit for someone others’ accomplishments? Or distancing themselves from the process that lead to a personal victory to avoid the appearance of hypocrisy? Stuff like that? Who’s do such a thing??? 🙄 🙄 🙄

    Funny we don’t know what the fuck happened here. In fact, Dear Leader’s story has changed on a daily basis. What has not, however, is his desire to score political point and your desire to award them. You don’t know whether enhanced interrogation had anything to do with the intel, but you’ll make your case regardless.

    And don’t forget, you’re the one that taught me how to use the smiley thingies, Master Po. 🙄

    “tree that does not bend breaks very easily.” – Presently Unknown King Fu Episode

  85. Ok, viability is at least an answer. So, viability is a prerequisite for humanness? Is that the sole prerequisite? And, what makes a new born so “viable”?

    Gotcha.

    As for Pfessor, I’ve done my share of research on what a “fetus” is. That is exactly how I arrived at my pro-life stance.

    That’s all you can do? Call me a pussy behind your keyboard hundreds of miles away and hastily throw up some link in a panic?

    You took the time to name floors as integral to a house yet can’t be bothered with listing one attribute of a “fetus” that differentiates it from a newborn to such an extent that its ok to be slaughtered?

  86. So, Pfessor, since you believe blacks to be biologically more predisposed to be murderous savages then other people, you must be quite happy with the current state of abortion in America.

    Is it a good thing that so many black pregnancies are aborted?

  87. Angst over woman’s suffrage? That’s what fires up pro-lifers?

    LOL.

    What a fucking twit.

    Hey dum-dum, it was the Dems that fought against woman’s suffrage.

    But then again, that was 90 fucking years ago, its ok if you forgot the details.

    Hey, if talking 1920’s politics makes you feel better about abortion, go for it.

  88. PF, what is the criteria for one to be declared “dead” from a medical standpoint? That’s a serious question, and of course loaded.

    Rabbit, as you know, “viablity” is only an answer; one that is no different than the “it’s just a cluster of cells” or “tissue” or whatever argument R got at Fat Grannies. It’s a red herring. If that “tissue” or cluster of cells” weren’t “viable” there wouldn’t be a need to abort it. “Viability” from a legal standpoint is shorthand for “causation” — a necessary element to complete an unlawful act (i.e. proof that one’s actions actually “caused” the harm rather than it would have happened — death — regardless). That’s different than the question of what constitutes “life.”

    But there again I don’t think bitches should have a right to vote either. 🙄

  89. “If a state is considered sovereign than by God what is the human body?”

    Muffy, that business about soveriegnty only makes sense when you presuppose that the “body” can only mean the mother’s — not the unborn baby’s. Surely R wouldn’t argue that smoking or drug use during pregnancy is morally justified based on the same rationale. Hell, most liberals don’t think smoking in a privately owned facility should be legal.

  90. Surely R wouldn’t argue that smoking or drug use during pregnancy is morally justified based on the same rationale.

    Well now I think you’ve snagged yourself in your own logical trap.

    Since pro-life folks advocate outlawing abortion, why aren’t we outlawing pregnant women smoking? If a woman put a cig in a 3 month old’s mouth, child services would take the kid away from her. My point is that the law very logically differentiates between the treatment of a yet to be born person and a born one in a variety of ways.

  91. Doesn’t just being alive prove to you Tigre that a person will say ANYTHING to get the pain or the fear to stop? Without any expertise at all I can confidently estimate that 50% of stuff said during enhanced interrogation is pure garbage.” – R

    No. You’re dealing with people whose mantra is we love death more than you love life. Now, you rationalle a discussion with that type of person.

    I assume your wife has never waterboarded you, so your experience to enhanced interrogation techniques is probably suspect. They did it to three people. 3. Do you have any idea how many people we’ve detained over the years? Thousands, and we chose to use these techniques on three people. I think we were more than a little judicious about it.

  92. “Since pro-life folks advocate outlawing abortion, why aren’t we outlawing pregnant women smoking?”

    Don’t know. It makes sense to me. I wonder what the rates are.

What's on your mind?

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s