When Comedy Delivers the Real News

Within the past two weeks I’ve been flabbergasted by how pathetic our anointed sources of news have become and how pop culture and comedy shows have had to pick up the slack. You would think that you could turn to Time Magazine for incisive reporting and The Daily Show with Jon Stewart for a good laugh. But this my friends is bizarro world.

Time Covers Palin and Becomes Tiger Beat Magazine

PHOENIX - NOVEMBER 23: A copy of former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin's new book 'America By Heart: Reflections on Family, Faith and Flag' is displayed November 23, 2010 in Phoenix, Arizona. Amid speculation about a 2012 White House bid, Palin kicked off a 16-stop tour for the book, which follows her bestselling memoir 'Going Rogue' last year and is billed as a tribute to veterans, hunting and the Tea Party. (Photo by Eric Thayer/Getty Images)

Two weeks ago Sarah Palin appeared on the cover of Time. No problem there. Palin is everywhere lately, Twitter, Facebook, Fox, TLC, bookstores, Dancing with the Stars, you name it, you’ll find Sarah or some reminder of her staring at you. So it makes sense for Time to cover her. What didn’t make sense was that the author Jay Newton-Small seemed to be taking notes from Rich Lowry of The National Review. Puff piece does not do the article justice. The coverage of Palin was so light and fluffy, the words practically floated off the page. We learned, for example about Team Palin, lead by the First Dude, Todd. In a sidebar accompanying the article Newton-Small talks about Palin’s official photographer and writes that Sarah hates to have her picture taken. Are you friggin’ kidding me? This is the number one attention whore in the political universe and I am supposed to believe she hates to get her picture taken?

This is the best Newton-Small can muster in giving any critical assessment of Palin:

There is something unmistakably improvised about the way Palin operates. Eleventh-hour decisions mean that her team has had its share of missed flights, misspelled candidates’ names, appearances canceled at the last minute, endorsements in races attributed to the wrong state, to say nothing of made-up words like “refudiated.” Her endorsements often took recipients by surprise, and when she did campaign for a candidate, it was often so late that the local reporters didn’t even know she was in the state.

via Does Sarah Palin Want to Be President, or Just Famous? – TIME.

Improvised? How about disorganized, Ms. Newton-Small? So the most incisive criticism of Palin that Time could produce was that she is Lucy to Todd’s Ricky Ricardo. Pathetic. Especially in light of the more exhaustive article written in pop culture magazine Vanity Fair:

Warm and effusive in public, indifferent or angry in private: this is the pattern of Palin’s behavior toward the people who make her life possible. A onetime gubernatorial aide to Palin says, “The people who have worked for her—they’re broken, used, stepped on, down in the dust.” On the 2008 campaign trail, one close aide recalls, it was practically impossible to persuade Palin to take a moment to thank the kitchen workers at fund-raising dinners. During the campaign, Palin lashed out at the slightest provocation, sometimes screaming at staff members and throwing objects. Witnessing such behavior, one aide asked Todd Palin if it was typical of his wife. He answered, “You just got to let her go through it… Half the stuff that comes out of her mouth she doesn’t even mean.” When a campaign aide gingerly asked Todd whether Sarah should consider taking psychiatric medication to control her moods, Todd responded that she “just needed to run and work out more.” Her anger kept boiling over, however, and eventually the fits of rage came every day. Then, just as suddenly, her temper would be gone. Palin would apologize and promise to be nicer. Within hours, she would be screaming again. At the end of one long day, when Palin was mid-tirade, a campaign aide remembers thinking, “You were an angel all night. Now you’re a devil. Where did this come from?”

via Sarah Palin: The Sound and the Fury | Politics | Vanity Fair.

That was the “nice” excerpt from the article. Reports are that Palin was furious about the Vanity Fair piece. Could that have influenced Ms. Newton-Small? Was Time afraid they wouldn’t get access if they went too tough? One thing is for sure. Sarah Palin can no longer moan and groan about the “lame stream media” because in this Time cover story, the MSM treated her like a pop star.

I Thought This Was Supposed to be Funny

In his final broadcast of 2010, Jon Stewart jumped the shark on Comedy Central’s “The Daily Show”. He decided quite deliberately to stop being funny. His topic was the Zadroga bill, legislation designed to fund medical care for gravely ill 9/11 first responders who have suffered with debilitating ailments for the past nine years since they spent time in the Ground Zero hell hole in New York City in September of 2001. After a scathing review of the media’s poor coverage of the bill and the GOP’s inaction on it, Stewart devoted a full second segment to  interviewing four first responders.

Vodpod videos no longer available.

It’s hard to watch this video and not be enraged at the Republicans who have made this a political football. Other than a bit of comedic sarcasm, Stewart does a straight interview with these guys, one of whom is from the NYPD and another from the FDNY. There’s no difference between these guys and our soldiers abroad. These guys risked life and limb to come to the aid of ordinary citizens under attack. The thanks they get is a Republican party that wants to play games. To his credit, Jon Stewart gives them a forum to voice their frustration.

This is what we have come to in the main stream media. For tough critiques of issues we now need to read Vanity Fair and watch Jon Stewart on Comedy Central while our trusted sources of news dick around.

Well I’m not alone in noting Jon Stewart’s coverage of the Zadroga bill. There is a journalist with Time who wrote an article, “Did Jon Stewart Turn the Tide on the 911 First Responders Bill?” Even though she makes a snarky comment about Stewart himself, she acknowledges he might have influenced better recent coverage of the issue. The author’s name: Jay Newton-Small.

Yeah Jay, as long as we have journalists like you writing fanzine articles, we need folks like Jon Stewart to do your real work for you.

Respectfully,
Rutherford
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108 thoughts on “When Comedy Delivers the Real News

  1. I dont know enough about the first responders bill issue.

    Is there hidden BS, or what? Why is it being held up?

  2. I am not surprised about the superfluous Time piece. The main thing is to keep her in the spotlight and her celebrity status intact. She is a big investment that has yet to pay off. They will play her for as long as they can to acheive their objective. She’ll get rich in the process. She doesn’t need character or integrity, as long as they can keep her on script and control the image and message.

    With the barrage of imagery and aural stimuli mixing fantasy with fact that we get from the MSM and their sources today, it’s easy to keep the viewers in suspense and intellectual flux.

    If we see things or hear things enough, they shape our belief systems. Fact can become fiction and fiction fact. Trivial can be vital and critical can pass for mundane. It all becomes mere entertainment and potential propaganda. The media is no longer a free press or a true fourth estate check and balance. It is owned by wealthy persons with a predetermined message and in the interest in of promoting an agenda. Shaping thought and perception. Invoking emotion and response. Usually to profit finacially or politically.

    I find fact and truth in many sources. John Stewart has some of the most serious and pertinent interviews from time to time. And he’s a comedian. Fox doles out huge truths everyday, along side the gravest fallacies. The same with MSNBC and CNN. Magazines and newspapers that once were praised for their journalistic integrity, now owned by businessmen controlling the means and message. A lot of real journalists are struggling with obscure websites vying for viewership and bandwidth. In this information age we really need to wring out the truth from every source we can find.

    So the image of Palin is much more important than the person of Palin. We are obsessed with celebrity in this country. It really doesn’t matter what the content of the article is as long as the packaging and image substantiate the perceived value.

    It’s all about the marketing. “Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.”

  3. Palin is one of those people on whom others project all sorts of things. Without knowing her personally, many seem to accept the image as a happily married, devoted parent, who was a strong businesswoman in the family fishing business, a solidly experienced mayor and governor, and a skilled outdoorsperson. Many others–again without knowing her–have decided she is in a sham marriage, with children she neglects (and which may not be hers), who needed a full time administrator to govern her tiny town and her husband to govern her sparsely populated state. And the projection extends to her family. Oh–and there is all sorts of cheap psychoanalysis: she’s a narcissist, she’s bi-polar, etc.

    To go along with the projection is a mistrust and demonizing of those who hold a different view. Those who like Palin are viewed by those who don’t like her as easily led dolts. Those who dislike Palin are viewed by those who do as jealous or afraid of her. And the media enriches itself by playing to both camps.

    But how is this different in many ways from the way people react to President Obama? There is an equal amount of projection with respect to him and his family, and an equal amount of demonizing those who like what they perceive as “morons” or “Kool Aid drinkers” and those who do as “racist.” And HE is supposedly a narcissist, etc. And the media further enriches itself by playing to both camps.

    I’m pretty cynical about celebrities. You simply don’t know what someone is like as a person, what their private life is like, etc. unless you know them. I do think there probably are few people who are in national politics who are not narcissistic to one degree or another. So where is the truth? And how do you know? And why does there seem to be so little willingness to accept that others simply may perceive one person differently than you do?

  4. Time? Good grief. Haven’t read that in probably 40 years. About the only printed news magazine left is the Economist. And like the WSJ you have to parse out it’s big business bias and ignore the editorials.

  5. Huck, the bill is now being held up for purely political reasons. A few months ago, Anthony Weiner and Peter King both House Reps from New York, famously debated each other about this bill with Weiner flipping his lid. It was cathartic for liberals but Weiners stance might have had some holes in it … i.e. the bill was attached to other “stuff”.

    Since then the bill has been pulled out on its own and I believe a recent amendment to it now has it paid for. So now the GOP is using their “so sorry, just too much to do in the lame duck session to get to this” excuse. The Dog covers this on his blog with Shepard Smith (one of the only courageous folks on Fox News) calling Tom Coburn out for his obstruction.

    But, as usual Huck, you are the only conservative on the blog to deal with the tough issue. When it is obvious that the GOP is ignoring American heroes, the other GOPhers go scurrying back to their holes and conveniently focus on the Sarah Palin part of the article. 😕

  6. Meribieth, I can toss out all the gossip rag stuff about Palin and still tell you why I detest her. It simply has to do with what comes out of her own mouth.

    Biggest case in point: “How’s that hopey-changey thing workin’ for ya?” The woman looks at a hopeful and idealistic nation and spits in their face.

    There is no getting around it Meribeth, even if Sarah is the most dedicated mother and wife in the world, with a wonderful work ethic and commitment to her job (?), she is by her own words, a mean, petty, hateful woman. While I admit that I do get a bit of a thrill out of reading the gossip, I don’t need to read it to know why she turns my stomach.

  7. They have been awol since before the last presidential election they gave George W. Bush carte blanche to invade Iraq without any critical assessment..

    BiW, I refined your comment for you. 🙂

  8. Well, she’s not exactly my cup of tea. I had problems since hearing the audiotape of the radio show where she was entertained by a cancer survivor being described as a “cancer” and the video of her with Pastor Muthee was a bit chilling. And I agree with you that much of what she says is pretty nasty.

    But help me out–WHAT is the appeal, do you think? You and I both see mean-spiritedness and spite. Others obviously do not.

  9. Meribeth, I can only guess at the appeal. She has successfully convinced the “ordinary guy” that she feels their pain (ironic use of Clinton expression). She has created a cult of victimhood where all the poor put upon hard working white folk of America are constantly insulted by the coastal elite crowd.

    She does what every charismatic personality does … she identifies a need, a vulnerability, and she capitalizes on it. The difference between Palin and Obama is Obama identified a need for people to want to hope again … to be better selves again. One can argue that his platitudes were empty, but they were uplifting. You didn’t leave an Obama speech “we are not blue America, we are not red America, we are the United States of America” feeling like you had to take a shower.

    Palin on the other hand takes advantage of our insecurities to bring out our meaner selves.

    On another note, Palin has the same appeal that Roseanne Barr had back in the day. Interestingly, even the racial dynamic is there. We loved the Cosby show, a sitcom about an upper middle class black family with American values everyone could aspire to. The response was Roseanne, the working class, some might say low class, white woman and her scruffy family. Somehow, she became the “everyman” for viewers. Palin similarly taps that need for poor white folks to have a role model.

    LOL … Meribeth you should never have asked for my analysis. I can see the bullets flying in my direction as soon as I hit the “Post Comment” button. 😀

  10. “so sorry, just too much to do in the lame duck session to get to this”

    Maybe democrats should have put this on their front burner for the lame duck session instead of trying to get in their last bit of crap, like trying to find ways to restructure deals that have already been agreed to.

    Sounds to me like both sides are using this as a football.

    Congress needs to cut the bullshit on this one.

  11. So now the GOP is using their “so sorry, just too much to do in the lame duck session to get to this” excuse.

    —————————————————–

    Maybe democrats should have put this on their front burner for the lame duck session instead of trying to get in their last bit of crap, like trying to find ways to restructure deals that have already been agreed to.

    Uhh, yeah. Just as the eeeeeeevvvvvviiiiiillllll Repubs didn’t have the numbers to obstruct a damn thing that the fine, upstanding Dems wanted to pass, as the minority party, they also don’t get to set the agenda. If they did, I’m fairly certain that this Congress would have actually performed one of its delegated duties and actually passed a budget, rather than leaving that for the next Congress. And if this was truly important to all those fine upstanding Democrats, then it shouldn’t have been a problem to make it (a) a stand alone bill, (b) find the funding for it….you know, since they suddenly found fiscal responsibility with PAYGO, and (c) made it a priority on the legislative agenda, perhaps even before the DOA proposal for a second porkulous…because the slush funds are getting low, you know!

  12. They have been awol since before the last presidential election they gave George W. Bush carte blanche to invade Iraq without any critical assessment.

    BiW, I refined your comment for you.

    Wow. I guess I missed the part where he had to seek “carte blanche” from the press. I guess Congress really has abdicated or delegated all of its responsibility.

  13. You cite the lameness of these aricles for their lack of objectivity (VF, WTF??), then launch into your ownn ill-informed opinions, exalting the “Hope and Change” as something of substantice, as proof? How ironic that the MSM must hate her on a personal level of some sort to have cred. Pure blather. You should start by upping the game.

  14. Jillean, welcome to the blog.

    As I stated in a comment earlier in the thread, one need not get personal to have disdain for Sarah Palin.

    I have a problem not only with lack of objectivity but just plain white-wash. The Sarah Palin of Time is a Palin fan’s wet dream with, as I said, just a bit of absent-mindedness thrown in (“Hey Loooooooooooseeeeeeeeey!”) The well documented Vanity Fair article may not be objective but it at least deals with reality.

    In fact, the VF author says at one point that even he was worried he was writing hyperbole until he checked his facts with multiple corroborating sources.

    One obvious item Newton–Small could have discussed without getting the least bit personal, is the phenom of a political candidate getting free campaign publicity through various media. Think about this: Sarah Palin has this game so well played that she is being paid for a nine hour campaign ad on TLC while many of her opponents will have to pay for theirs. Depending on where you sit, that just might make her a friggin’ genius. Newton-Small does not go there in any obvious way.

    Like i said, if I want to read love letters to Sarah Palin, I’ll go to Drudge, Fox or The National Review. I wouldn’t expect to find it at Time.

  15. Wow. I guess I missed the part where he had to seek “carte blanche” from the press. I guess Congress really has abdicated or delegated all of its responsibility.

    Seems like you want to have your cake and eat it too. When it comes to war, you don’t want a well informed public because their opinion does not count. But when it comes to denying gays their rights, public opinion should hold sway.

    Thing do fit together quite nicely in your world BiW. 🙂

  16. Rutherford, though I like you, you might be the most shallow, and self-centered person I’ve ever read (minus Graychin). It really interferes with your other wonderful qualities of intellect and cheapens your argument, because your duplicity is so obvious.

    Want a perfect example?

    Biggest case in point: “How’s that hopey-changey thing workin’ for ya?” The woman looks at a hopeful and idealistic nation and spits in their face.

    Please. You’ve got to be kidding, or maybe I should better say, “You can’t be that dumb or dishonest?”

    Their is nothing hopeful or edifying about the progressive/liberal idealogy. It’s nothing more than a protest group with an elitist mindset premised on the idea, “you people aren’t smart enough to know, so let your superiors decide and determine for you.” It’s the ultimate arrogance and conceit.

    I still have not determined if progressive attitudes are based on sheer meanness or misguided good intent, but it will always fail because it is most definitely not based on the ideology of trust and exhortation.

    Come up with another excuse that bears a semblance of truth: jealousy and envy come to mind.

    You hate Sarah Palin because she represents a success outside the only route you think available for success…and I think it hilarious that you specifically and continually target Palin when you have such a bevy of liberal women to pick about spitting in the face of America: Pelosi and Clinton to name only a couple.

  17. Can anyone here spell filibuster? The Senate is broken in a manner that the majority party cannot get anything done unless it has a foolproof 60 seat majority and part of being foolproof is having a monolithic party. The GOP knows that Dems can’t help but fight among themselves and they’ve capitalized on it for two years now. They take a no bipartisan approach and then sit back and watch the blue dogs ruin the vote for the other side.

    The GOP has no “red dogs”, at least most of the time. This START ratification is the first time in ages that more than one or two GOPhers have broken ranks.

  18. Ah yes, let’s cry about the filibuster even though there was alot of time when the GOP didn’t have the power to launch one.

    And can you spell reconciliation, Rutherford? I know damn well that you can.

    Why didn’t democrats include the 9/11 responders bill into the bill they forced onto everyone? I guess it just wan’t a big fucking deal back then, was it?

  19. Rutherford,

    Since Huck is ripping your incredibly weak argument to shreds, I won’t dogpile on… 🙂

    You’re out of excuses – your party failed.

  20. I see the GOP is responsible for the Democrats’ failures. Sara Palin is the representative. Obama the misunderstood heavyweight. You guys want to disembowel Levi Johnston. Sounds like shallow Daily Kos stuff to me. It’s no wonder nobody takes you arrogant shits seriously anymore. Still can’t figure out what gave rise to Palin and the Tea Party? Try looking in the mirror.

  21. Jillean: I find your post difficult to understand so perhaps you will help me out? Who has said anything about Levi Johnston? And who are the “arrogant shits?” As far as I can tell, this post has some comments that are very liberal and some that are very conservative. To whom are you referring and why? Thanks

  22. Hey “Rutherford”, tolerance extraordinaire.

    Still going to tell me there’s no difference? How about exploiting the small children while we’re at it? Hope this one makes you proud for the cause…this ought to help you win a bunch over. 😉

    And I’ll forewarn, certainly not work friendly.

    http://fckh8.com/Bullies/

  23. Ahhh Meribeth you don’t need to wait for Jillian to weigh in on the “arrogant sh*ts” comment. Clearly she (I’m assuming gender) thinks I am an arrogant sh*t.

    Interestingly she mentions Levi Johnston when no one here brought him up. By doing so she betrays her own embarrassment with this family of hillbillies who should have stayed in Alaska. John McCain proved himself permanently incompetent when he chose her for VP. To show Palin’s true “power”, virtually no one had heard of her prior to the nomination and were it not for the nomination, no one would know who she is now. It’s no wonder Sarah is devout. That nomination was a gift from heaven.

  24. Tex, the no bullying message is right on. The use of children using profanity, a major mistake on their part.

    Then we wonder why conservatives are homophobic. Sadly, one stereotype of gays that I think has some truth is they are too damn theatrical for their own good and it interferes with their sense of what is in good taste.

    Summary: No I don’t approve of kids using profanity in political ads. But then, I don’t like the way kids are portrayed on the Disney Channel, so go figure.

  25. “R”,

    You didn’t add that the hesitation and questioning, followed by Senator Tom “NO” Coburn just saved the tax payers $3,000,000,000,000 while still adequately insuring the 9/11 rescuers.

    Why? 🙂 Did we really need the buildings? Can you see maybe why we don’t trust your party of phonies?

  26. Nothing better than making a bill better before you pass it! That’s why the cooperation of our GOP brothers is so vital!the only thing that can save us from our own stupidity.

    I know that’s what you really meant to say. Just a small oversight. 😉

  27. Do they have Palin action figures out yet? How about an animated version of Sarah’s Alaska? If not, wait for it. 😉

  28. Levi Johnston = VF and target of other idiot liberal tabloids.

    Arrogant shits = liberals like those that find value in a political slogan like Hope and Change while lecturing the world about how shallow and putrid Palin and her family are with the attitude of a Jerry Springer audience member.

    Read my prior comment. I’m talking about the laughable hypocrisy embodied in this shallow post — that I now see from the follow up comments is just bait and connected to some other narrative I’m not privy to.

    The democrats have been miserable failures since taking congress, and their drones spend their time at VF trying to trash Palin and anyone connected with her like, Levi Johnston, as though they are a political threat of some kind? My point ain’t that hard to follow.

  29. Shoot Gorilla, this time the Palin charges aren’t even the most insidious of the post.

    The oblivious nature of “screwing the 9/11 rescuers” is worse. Don’t hold your breath for the retraction.

  30. NPR interviewed Ben Affleck, who complained that CEOs get paid too much.

    This is a guy who makes $10 million a pop to PRETEND.

    Only liberals…

  31. Jon Stewart may be the worse of the demagogues on TV. Put Stewart on the same firing squad as Private Manning, then I’ll cheer – just another enemy of the state.

    Perfect example of the hatred Libs like Rutherford try to stoke by any and all nefarious means. Remember the chain dragging across a dirt road. The voice-over by the daughter of James Byrd, the black man dragged to his death in Texas?

    “It was like my father was killed all over again.”

    This post is the same kind of crap. Another new low for the Rutherford Lawson Blog…

  32. Jon Stewart may be the worse of the demagogues on TV.

    Actually Jon Stewart is known for tearing the left as well as the right. And masterful, too. He also tears into religions and sciences. He has put some really good questions to a lot of guests and exposes hypocrisy all the time. His shows are entertaining and educational, along with the humor and sarcasm. He is definitely liberal and leftist, but his snark is just as sharp as his bite.

    But he too is on a leash. If you are on mainstream media today, you have a leash. If you go too far, you loose your job. He sometimes stretches it, but never leaves his boundries.

  33. Meribeth, are you familiar with VF or multitude of other liberal tabloids that have gone to town on him, like Rolling Stone?

    Duh.

  34. No, I don’t read tabloids–liberal or otherwise. But again, what does that have to do with this blog, which–to my knowledge–didn’t utter a peep about him?

    And since this blog is already having an impact on me, why don’t you take your “duh” and blow it out your ass?

  35. hey–it’s a start. I’ll never be Tex-ish but, for me, that’s big stuff. I may need to go lie down or take a good dose of smelling salts.

  36. What kind of weirdo starts off on a 5 paragraph diatribe on Sara Palin for a piece on 9/11 workers?

    Yeah…I yawned Rutherford. Sorry that I never got to the other non-story you included in your blog entry.

    I can’t and don’t read Palin stuff anymore.

  37. Leave it to Jillean to mention my other fav pub Rolling Stone, which has some of the best political reporting to be found. RS is no tabloid. Honestly, I don’t read Vanity Fair. I only read the Palin article because I heard about it on the news.

  38. Rabbit you’re unusually thick even after a good nights sleep. The unifying theme of the entire piece was news being comedy and comedy being news. I thought that was pretty obvious.

  39. Well like I said earlier it’s funny to see everybody run for the hills when 4 white guys (at least a couple of whom are probably Republican) say the GOP is screwing them over. Maybe they’ll switch parties now that they know the score. 😉

  40. Rutherford,

    I’m going to ask yet another question you probably aren’t going to like. Please forego the histrionics of your initial reaction, and think before you answer.

    The first responders are in a dangerous business. The potential is high for them being exposed to all sorts of toxic materials in the course of their work, in addition to other dangers which threaten not just their health, but their very lives.

    Are they not already insured against those contingencies? Do they not already have health care paid for by taxpayers? Pensions if they are no longer able to work? And if so, why is this suddenly an issue for the national taxpayers rather than the state and local ones? And if this really is a national priority, why stop with the first responders? Why not survivors of the buildings, or for that matter, everyone who was within breath of that dust cloud?

    I don’t doubt that you have sympathy for these people…who wouldn’t, but seriously, I wouldn’t expect the Feds (i.e. everybody to pay for the care of a first responder exposed to a toxic health hazard say on I-5 in Seattle.

  41. BiW, I think they have been only partially compensated for their health care and ailments. The Stewart video at minute 4 eludes to that. Most were too sick to work soon after 911 and were forced to retire. Though they get retirement pay in most all cases, they have been fighting workmen’s comp insurance to cover their health care costs. Many have died since that event and all have suffered some medical ailment that could be attributed to their exposure during those times.

    I think the biggest faux pas was the EPA coming out and telling all the rescue workers that it was safe to work in that environment soon after 911 happened. Much of what they were all exposed to was the asbestos that was in the dust from the towers being pulverized and falling.

  42. I’ll never be Tex-ish but, for me, that’s big stuff.

    MeriBeth, you cut me to the quick. 🙂 And to think, I was going to ask you out for a hot date too when my wife wises up and runs me off.

  43. I’m going to say something that will appear divisive, almost blasphemous, but exactly when does the statute of limitations run out on the 9/11 rescuers and victims and the OKC bombing victims get their just due?

    Because down here in Oklahoma, they didn’t make multimillionaires out of the survivors, I’m not completely convinced all these health issues are completely related to the health hazards of the towers and 9/11, and it would appear the rescuers of the Murray building were just as brave, weren’t they?

  44. Tex, I don’t know how many of those responders in OK have been affected with longterm ailments. I also don’t think any 911 responders have been made millionaires, or that any have been left better off than they were before the event. You would have to back up that claim. Here is a report from Fox news that came out on 9/11 of this year:

    9 Years Later, Nearly 900 9/11 Responders Have Died, Survivors Fight for Compensation

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/09/09/report-responders-died-ground-zero-illnesses/

  45. BiW, I think they have been only partially compensated for their health care and ailments. The Stewart video at minute 4 eludes to that. Most were too sick to work soon after 911 and were forced to retire. Though they get retirement pay in most all cases, they have been fighting workmen’s comp insurance to cover their health care costs. Many have died since that event and all have suffered some medical ailment that could be attributed to their exposure during those times.

    Ok, but again, if true, why is this a Federal (i.e. OUR) responsibility? It seems to me that if the City of New York is so flush with cash that it can provide social services to illegal aliens rather than doing the “report and deport” with ICE, then perhaps they (and the state) can pony up the green necessary to pay for the care of people who did their job that day. Because otherwise, it seems to me that the entire country is being asked to foot the bill for a locality that can’t seem to properly prioritize its spending.

  46. Ok, but again, if true, why is this a Federal (i.e. OUR) responsibility?

    True that, but the EPA IS a federal agency. They made the “all is safe” announcement that put the responders is an unsafe environment..

  47. By the way Poolman. While I’m sure 900 people may have died with respect to the rescue and clean up, that quote is meaningless without knowing how many were involved.

    100,000? 10,000? Sorry, but after this incident, the lies that have been told turning 9/11 into a political issue, the four goons and their attitudes from above, the attitude of NYC and their continual support of liberal politicians including Bloomberg and the disrespect shown Bush, and I’m running on empty concerning empathy for NY.

    I choose to send my tax dollars to soldiers instead, given the choice. Let’s make some of them millionaires, because we know their disabilities stemmed from heroics.

  48. Seems like you want to have your cake and eat it too. When it comes to war, you don’t want a well informed public because their opinion does not count. But when it comes to denying gays their rights, public opinion should hold sway.

    Thing do fit together quite nicely in your world BiW.

    I swear, if you aren’t purposely obtuse at times, then you do a spendid imitation.

    Let’s see…war…a temporary event (even with some being longer than others)…undertaken at times based on information that we don’t necessarily want everyone to know that we know (Did you google “Enigma” and “the bombing of Coventry” yet?) It is also diplomacy by another means, making it something that we don’t normally ask the people’s permission for before doing.

    On the other hand, redefining and recasting institutions of society on the basis of “civil rights” based on nothing other than the desires of the claimants on a permanent basis should only be accomplished through consensus. Not though unelected judges, who discover new meanings in legal terms that have existed for centuries, and not even through a national legislature, which does not, and should not have jurisdiction over such affairs.

    Doing so taints the transaction with the stain of illegitimacy, and it forever lowers the standard for determination of elegibility for changes to the law based on civil rights. You might want to consider the application of the term “balkanization” to a world where everyone is special.

  49. And yes, there are over 3,000 people now millionaires…

    The article eludes to widows that are millionaires. I understood you to mean actual survivors of the event. It also claims much of that was from donations. I recall donations were very huge for survivors of that event. That was back when we HAD an economy.

  50. Ok, but again, if true, why is this a Federal (i.e. OUR) responsibility?
    ———-
    True that, but the EPA IS a federal agency. They made the “all is safe” announcement that put the responders is an unsafe environment.

    A fire is an unsafe environment. And they would have been there anyway, because that is their job. Just like the police would still be there getting people out of the buildings, just like the paramedics would have been there tending to the injured, whether it was an “unsafe environment” or not.

    It wouldn’t be the first rodeo for any of those groups.
    Do you think the towers are the only buildings that have fallen that had asbestos in them? Asbestos is in millions of buildings all across the country, and they will frequently fall down when they burn.

    Maybe they were unprepared for the degree of exposure, but it strikes me as disingenuous to lay their ailments at the foot of yet another federal agency that couldn’t.

  51. I choose to send my tax dollars to soldiers instead, given the choice. Let’s make some of them millionaires, because we know their disabilities stemmed from heroics.

    We already devote plenty of money and resources to war. Unfortunately the war is making plenty of people millionaires and increasing the coffers of those who were already there, but not the average soldier. Rarely do these wars benefit the ones doing the actual grunt work. From the psychological damage and extremely high suicide rate of our volunteer soldiers of today, there is no real concern for their well-being. The history records speak volumes to this. If we really cared, we’d bring them home.

  52. Do you think the towers are the only buildings that have fallen that had asbestos in them? Asbestos is in millions of buildings all across the country, and they will frequently fall down when they burn.

    Yes, these are the very first steel buildings that have fallen due to fire. These firefighters have battled fires in numerous other skyscrapers in NYC that contained asbestos and they exercised cautions then. The very same proceedures were followed on 9/11, but the collapse and pulverization of the steel and concrete structures was unique and the broadcasting of the contaminants so severe that no agency should have allowed anyone into the area without the proper hasmat equipment.

  53. If we really cared, we’d bring them home. ditch the idiotic ROEs, let them take the gloves off and do what they are best at.

    Fixed it for you.
    ——————————————————
    I understand what you are saying, poolman, but I live about 3 miles from joint base Lewis-McChord. The soldiers and airmen who rotate to Iraq and Afghanistan through there are my neighbors, clients, and friends. They get absolutely livid when well-meaning people presume the best thing is to take them out of the harm’s way that they volunteered to be in. They don’t want your pity, they want to fight the war in a manner that doesn’t get them killed because they had to wait for permission to return fire, or hunt down the SOBs shooting at them. They don’t want to come home when the terrorists are still there, still recruiting, and making inroads as they burrow in the local countryside; they want to make peace preferable to having to face them, and be on the wrong side of their rifles, their knives, or their starlight scopes.

    You’ve advocated pretty strongly against war here…believe it or not, I can respect the sentiment, but being a student of history, I am convinced that war, like poverty, is going to be with us until the return of the king. So then I have to ask myself, which is preferrable, a long slow bleed due to micromanagment, or letting the dog off the leash, and letting it do what it does best?

  54. Yes, these are the very first steel buildings that have fallen due to fire

    Oh. I forgot. You’re one of those people.

    The very same proceedures were followed on 9/11, but the collapse and pulverization of the steel and concrete structures was unique and the broadcasting of the contaminants so severe that no agency should have allowed anyone into the area without the proper hasmat equipment.

    Which area? The buildings and the immediate surroundings, or the area covered by the dust plume…the one Rutherford refuses to acknowledge as a graveyard?

    So what hazmat gear would have been appropriate? Racal suits? Would there have been enough gear available to allow the first responders to do what they did, or would have even more people died because there wouldn’t have been enough gear for all the first responders who were necesary?

    Are you even familar with things like bio-disaster protocols? Are you not aware that when attacks that would require hazmat gear are wargamed, the first responders are almost always considered among the casualities?

  55. I don’t see where they have been restrained anywhere. I do think it is intentionally drawn out, but not for the same reasons you describe. Our drones alone have increased their missions and the body count by two-fold in the past year alone. 92 percent of Afghanis have never even heard of 9/11, and just see us as the occupying force we are.

    I also have read the FOIA information available now that proves we provoked or allowed attacks by others to get us into all the wars and conflicts since and including WWII. The use of DU munitions in Iraq and other chemical agents make our war effects outlast our occupations and into subsequent generations. Birth defects and cancers are six times greater in Fallujah. Vietnam is seeing the same thing.

    Our treatment of veterans and some troops themselves show a disregard for their health and safety. We have cases of poisoned water in military bases here in America that were known and yet nothing was done to alleviate the problem. Even the construction of facilities in Iraq for military use was deemed dangerous and unsafe. In some instances our troops were exposed to carcinogens that were known to exist, yet they were not informed or properly protected.

    Even the whole lack of armor issue we had when we first deployed our troops into Iraq speaks volumes to how “important” their health is guarded. “You go to war with the army you have.” Yeah, Rummy. I got your number.

    I used to feel as you do. During the cold war when my father was stationed on the first line of defense for any aggression that would have come from the USSR, I was certain we were all about defending the freedoms of all civilization. It certainly is a noble fantasy, one I sometimes regret not having retained.

  56. Or we could stick to provable facts, rather than fanciful tales engaged by conspiracy theorists who get off on pretending that they have knowledge of how the whole of government engages in coverup after coverup of its various conspiracies against the American People…the very same government that can’t even deliver the mail efficently, read bills before they vote to pass them, or write them correctly to exempt themselves from the rules that they would impose upon us.

    Such a world would be horribly complicated and convoluted…and unnecessary. The government has no need to hide when it is holding us in contempt. It has graduated to doing so openly, as this rolling bad joke of a Congress has repeatedly demonstrated, and as the heads of various federal agencies continue to demonstrate…deciding sua sponte that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, or the FCC deciding that it is going to regulate the internet after both Congress and the Courts told it “No.”

    I don’t have to look under a rock to find some way that people and agencies within the government are screwing me. They do it right out in the open.

  57. The democrats have been miserable failures since taking congress

    Ahhhh Tex, tis a shame you are married my friend because I think I’ve found your soul mate. You and Jillean would make a perfect couple. 😉

    But then there’s this:

    and their drones spend their time at VF trying to trash Palin and anyone connected with her like …

    Uh oh, the dreaded D word …. could this be Elric in drag? 😯

  58. The Murrah Building was every bit as horrific as 9/11, albeit on a smaller scale.

    I love you man (in a manly sort of way) but that has to be one of the dumbest things you’ve ever said. Yeah, I stepped on an anthill the other day and it was just as horrific (for the ants) as 9/11 just on a much smaller scale.

    There is no comparing the explosion of the Murrah building which did not completely collapse to the complete demolition of two of the tallest towers in the world. Sorry.

  59. If we really cared, ditch the idiotic ROEs, let them take the gloves off and do what they are best at.

    I’ll go you one better BiW but you’ll have to wait for my next post to find out how. 😉

  60. Or we could stick to provable facts, rather than fanciful tales engaged by conspiracy theorists who get off on pretending that they have knowledge of how the whole of government engages in coverup after coverup of its various conspiracies against the American People…

    Before you discount my view entirely, I suggest you go back to the last thread and read the link provided by the Gorilla at # 126 . That reflects my view. That speaks to the reason for our wars today. From that link:

    Since the Cold War era, Washington has consciously supported Osama bin Laden, while at same time placing him on the FBI’s “most wanted list” as the World’s foremost terrorist.
    While the Mujahideen are busy fighting America’s war in the Balkans and the former Soviet Union, the FBI –operating as a US based Police Force- is waging a domestic war against terrorism, operating in some respects independently of the CIA which has –since the Soviet-Afghan war– supported international terrorism through its covert operations.
    In a cruel irony, while the Islamic jihad –featured by the Bush Adminstration as “a threat to America”– is blamed for the terrorist assaults on the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon, these same Islamic organisations constitute a key instrument of US military-intelligence operations in the Balkans and the former Soviet Union.
    In the wake of the terrorist attacks in New York and Washington, the truth must prevail to prevent the Bush Adminstration together with its NATO partners from embarking upon a military adventure which threatens the future of humanity.

    I also went out of my way to provide conservative links so as not to threaten anyone’s perceived ideological position. Truth is apolitical. If one is truly concerned with justice, you must be willing to see all perspectives. You must also risk changing your mind or moving out of your comfort zone. It splits families and friends sometimes. Truth isn’t always pretty, but it does free your soul.

  61. “Yeah, I stepped on an anthill the other day and it was just as horrific (for the ants) as 9/11 just on a much smaller scale.”

    You didn’t really just compare 168 dead men, women, and children to ants on an anthill, did you?

  62. is no comparing the explosion of the Murrah building which did not completely collapse to the complete demolition of two of the tallest towers in the world. Sorry.

    Well, of course jackass. Twenty babies slaughtered in a day care in a red state doesn’t count for much, so hey, “who the hell cares.” Right? A couple of hundred citizens murdered, no big deal as long as it’s not on the coast

    You assholes on the northeast coast are probably the most pathetic commentary on mankind I’ve ever met. You’ve done nothing to change my opinion here either…

  63. Tex, your cries of East Coast elitism fall on deaf ears this morning.

    1. Your statement was preposterous on the face of it. Proportion does matter. Just one man’s death at the hands of a terrorist is one too many (and Huck should know full well I feel that way … men are not ants) but to say 3000 from two totally demolished skyscrapers is equivalent to 200 (I’m rounding up) in one building with no extreme damage to surrounding areas, is just absurd. And you know it. (Again Huck, the anthill comment was deliberate hyperbole to highlight the silliness of Tex’s comment.)

    2. It has been suggested by some TV talking heads that if Hawaii had been a state in 1941 we would not have called Pearl Harbor an Hawaiian problem. We would have called it an American problem. Indeed even without Hawaii being a state, Pearl Harbor was viewed as an attack on America (rightfully so). 9/11 was not a New York attack, it was an attack on America. It is viewed by most who are not obsessed with New York elitism as an attack on America. The OK City bombing, no matter how horrific was not an attack on America launched by a foreign enemy. It was not an act of war. It was not comparable from that perspective.

    3. So you’re uncomfortable with East Coast elitism? Well let me break it down for you. New York is the financial center of the world. Washington D.C, is the capital of the most powerful nation on the planet. Comparatively speaking, Oklahoma ain’t doing sh*t. That is why Atta and his merry band of maniacs didn’t fly their planes into the Murrah building.

    I know the friends and loved ones of those lost in OK City feel the same pain as the survivors of 9/11. That is NOT what this argument is about.

  64. Spoken like a typical east coast arrogant idiot, living near the NYC area – naive and completely ignorant of the real world.

    Time for someone to tell you the truth about how things really are Rutherford.

    You live in an expensive, overrated, overpriced honey pot where life is cheap. Look around at your situation. One step from the precipice. How’s that elitism working out for you now big shot?

    I know a hell of a lot more about your life than you know about mine. And if I were made of money, I wouldn’t trade your locale. I could have many times in a younger day been right there with you. And every time I came home, I kissed the tarmac. My quality of life is way, way beyond yours. But like I tell my friends – “let them keep convincing themselves of wonderful and enriched their lives are. How import they are. Do you want them down here to start screwing up a good thing?”

    Ever heard of a jet plane Rutherford? If we see like seeing the unique sites, we look and then leave. Broadway and museums are wonderful – once a year.

    Just a small example at how naive NYers are. You know how you all flock to see the “wonderful” Christmas decoration at Rockefeller Center – probably renamed Kwanzaa decoration by now? How you pay $15.00 for lousy tasting hot chocolate, paid $20.00 just to get into the city, and in the arctic gales between decaying 80 story buildings watch people so numerous, they look like maggots on dead flesh. And you believe that’s a little piece of heaven. You’re clueless pal.

    Well, here’s what is funny. Just a small example. Kansas City, yes Kansas City, MO, is prettier at Christmas than New York on it’s best day. You wouldn’t have a clue, because you’ve been wrapped in a cocoon of isolationism. You’re just dumb as hell about what has transpired for the last 50 years, because the “coast” is all you know.

    Your politicians are corrupt, your cities trashy, polluted and putrid – I could smell New York before I could see New York. D.C. may be beautiful – they ought to be for how much they’ve stolen the last 100 years. That can change in a concussion wave.

    Two questions for you, Your Majesty. Why is it people are emigrating as fast as their feet can carry them out of your nirvana? Did you not see the recent census Caesar? Every advantage America has to offer with your power brokers and many of your cities still look 3rd World. Is that why Texas created more jobs by itself last year than all other states combined? Because it ain’t shit?

    Ten years after the fact, you pigeons still have a hole in the ground where towers once stood, which you’ve noted yourself on this board. We built a bridge across our Hudson river in less than 90 days here. You idiots would still be sitting around with your thumbs in your ass waiting on union permits drawing wages.

    Here’s the main reason you were attacked Superman.

    Because you’re an easy target – weak and ineffectual, and that was going to be advertised all over the Muslim world with a complicit, liberal, global media. I think Atta felt right at home. Riyadh on Broadway. Beirut for the ‘burbs.

    All you’ve clowns have got on your side is history. Gary, IN – travel to it, because that’s your child’s future. 😉

  65. LOL … Tex, I HATE going into NYC. I agree with 98% of everything you wrote. Sadly nothing you wrote actually refutes what I wrote. NYC was attacked because of its importance and world symbolism, not its “vulnerability”. You know that as well as I do.

    Don’t know what the cost of living down there is, but I could easily see myself trading these ugly New England winters for Austin, TX. Was there on business a few times and absolutely loved it. 🙂

  66. NYC was attacked because of its importance and world symbolism, not its “vulnerability”.

    Or not. This is an interesting account regarding the targets of the attack, albeit admitted speculation by the author. It is an account based on the facts and documentation presented and available. It makes for an interesting read and insight into a much bigger picture.

  67. Rutherford,

    NYC is the garden of Eden compared to Connecticut. Flying into Hartford would be similar to flying into Liberia or Port-a-Prince.

    No, New York City is vulnerable because since Rudy G. left, they’ve reverted back to the rotting of the Big Apple – ineffectual, politically correct and visibly stupid.

    I highly suggest you stay right where you are. We don’t need you helping to screw up our way of life. Remember, keep reminding yourself how wonderfully smart you are as you pay through the roof to live on top of one another in the ice and snow.

    I tried to get my lovely wife this morning to cut off heating oil to the Northeast, or at least jack the prices sky high, as she has the stroke. But then I remembered guys like Alfie live there. 🙂

    If we could just get rid of the remaining conservatives in New England, we could make your lives so miserable while you raved about how much smarter you were. It would be glorious.

  68. Ah I should have updated that comment about Oklahoma not doing sh*t compared to NY to say Oklahoma and CT. Believe me I have no delusions of grandeur regarding CT’s relative importance in the scheme of things. Sorry if I implied otherwise.

    Bradley (I doubt you’ve ever flown into it … more smoke out of your ass) is not too bad an airport. But then that depends on taste. I don’t like huge airports like Kennedy or O’Hare.

    CT is like most states … some beautiful areas (particularly during change of season) and some hell holes. I’m not a big fan of urban … so I don’t like Hartford. I also don’t much like New Haven.

    New York City is vulnerable because since Rudy G. left,

    The holiday season is dulling your senses. You said NYC got hit because it was vulnerable, now you say it’s vulnerable since Rudy left. Rudy was there when it got hit. Make up your mind.

    I tried to get my lovely wife this morning to cut off heating oil to the Northeast

    Oh snap! Now that’s power. No wonder you’re p-whipped! Your wife can freeze out the Northeast! 😯

    Hey it’s not just Alfie … I coulda sworn Elric lived up there too. You wouldn’t want Elric to get cold …. sh*t his basement bunker from which he drops comment-turds is cold enough as it is. 😀

  69. You said NYC got hit because it was vulnerable, now you say it’s vulnerable since Rudy left. Rudy was there when it got hit. Make up your mind.

    Unlike me, you don’t need the Christmas season to dull your senses – they stay in a perpetual state of dullness. New York did indeed get hit.

    The planes originated in that lib bastion of idiocy – Boston.

    I need not make up my mind – Times Square bomber are home grown. 😉

  70. I saw on the “Tweeter” that Rutherford is having a blast on the end of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell. He’s going with old jokes about the Navy and the Village People.

    While I do empathize with many arguments for why gay people should be able to serve, I get annoyed when people like Rutherford, who probably has never even once changed his little skivvies in a gym locker room, pretend it’s no big deal that overtly gay people will be in such close quarters.

    He has refereed to the military as “work spaces”. He also claims he has some kind of inside tract on how a gay man reacts to other naked men. We’re told that military service is comparable to the corporate cubical and gay men aren’t attracted to straight men.

    Total bull shit. Total and utter bull shit.

    Hey, when it comes down to it, the military will make it work. Might it sometimes be a distraction and cost lives? Yes. Will the military also gain some highly qualified people it wouldn’t have had before the law? Yes.

    But for people like Rutherford to mock what is at the very least, a slightly degrading experiecne: showering and living in close quarters with openly gay men, shows a callousness for those who serve.

    Rutherford, you have faced many challenges and hardships due to being disabled. But, it would do you some good to remember you also have escaped many tough situations as well. Being a 17 or 18 year old kid and living in open barracks or berthing is a little bit awkward, to say the least. (I once had to put suppositories up my ass in front of dozens of laughing grown ass men for a week straight). It’s now going to be rougher.

  71. http://www.news10.net/news/article.aspx?storyid=113529&provider=top&catid=188

    Start Rant:

    LOL. The ground crew of a plane simply swipes a card to get access but they want to search the flight crew, nuns and autistic toddlers?

    When I first learned about the TSA and their pat downs, I assumed they had a credible threat and some new handy technology.

    As usual, I was played the fool.

    This shit has NOTHING to do with real security. I should have known better.

    Does anyone here believe the TSA to be nothing more then some strange propagandized show?

    Can you guys believe that?

    And damn, don’t fricking tell anyone about this secret info! 6 Feds will be at your door to disarm you.

    I heard this dude call in on a radio show and ask if terrorists are serial killers.

    Terrorists kill multiple people and then take ownership of doing so. The only difference is they don’t get profiled, where as serial killers do.

    Strange.

    But then again, we live during a time where even anarchy and mass graves on the border isn’t enough to make the worthless government actually protect the integrity of the United States. Votes and cheap fucking strawberries mean too much.

    Obama and his Goldman Sachs buddies print money by the billions last month and then scratch their heads while telling us gas prices are a sign of a strong, rebounding economy.

    I would love to be in a history classroom in the year 2336 when the class spends a week laughing at the decline America.

    End Rant

  72. All over a Chinese shoe that was put together by drones for a total cost of 3 bucks.

    GOP should serioulsy conisder just giving away sneakers on election day.

  73. Lol…and the humiliation continues.

    Horrible hemroids. I didn’t take a dump the first two weeks of boot camp. I blew my ass out when the seal finally broke.

  74. Or we could stick to provable facts, rather than fanciful tales engaged by conspiracy theorists who get off on pretending that they have knowledge of how the whole of government engages in coverup after coverup of its various conspiracies against the American People…the very same government that can’t even deliver the mail efficently, read bills before they vote to pass them, or write them correctly to exempt themselves from the rules that they would impose upon us.” – BiW

    Why bother?

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