We Must Imagine

2nd April 1969:  Singer, songwriter and guitarist John Lennon (1940 - 1980) of The Beatles, at a press conference at Heathrow airport on his return from honeymoon with Yoko Ono.  (Photo by George Stroud/Express/Getty Images)

It was 30 years ago today that I was eating breakfast at the Greenhouse Cafe in Cambridge, Massachusetts when I learned of John Lennon’s murder on the cafe radio. At the time I was neither a huge Lennon nor Beatles fan. I liked the song “Imagine” but I liked it simply as a song not as any philosophical statement. The older I got, the more the lyrics resonated with me. So it was with some dismay that I received a virtual holiday lump of coal in my e-mail in-basket last night from my blogging friend Blackiswhite Imperial Consigliere. On his blog, Taxes, Stupidity and Death, he took issue with two things: the folks who blindly idolize John Lennon and the lyrics of Lennon’s most famous solo work. I can get behind some impatience with folks who idolize anyone. BiW, as I call him for short, made sense to me there. It was when he took issue with the song “Imagine” that I had some problems.

On my drive home tonight, the local talk show host, David Boze, was talking about John Lennon’s death, and the horrible annual spectacle in which the aging hippies and the perpetually naive lionize the dead musician.

He was dissecting “Imagine” and pointing out that it describes a world that cannot be because it goes against human nature, and pointed out that not everyone wants to give up their possessions and personal liberties, and that if they tried to make the more reluctant among us give those things up, they would indeed have something to fight and die for. — BiW

BiW was back in the mode of so many conservatives who scoffed at Barack Obama’s Hope and Change rhetoric of the 2008 campaign. To believe the world could be a better place made you “perpetually naive”.  The song is flawed because it describes a world that cannot be because it goes against human nature. But isn’t that what aspiration is all about? Aren’t we here to resist the baser parts of our nature? Aren’t we here to change the world for the better? Aren’t we here to share in the world’s riches?

Ah yes … sharing. As I engaged with the blog’s author in the comments section, I discovered that the root of his objection to “Imagine” was his assumption that it advocated communism. It is interesting to me that whenever we suggest to the wealthy or to the establishment that we should share, the suggestion gets labeled with the most scary political labels at their disposal. No where in Lennon’s lyrics does he mention communism. In fact, if one wants to get a different perspective on “Imagine”, one should look at the lyrics of an earlier work by Lennon while he was with the Beatles:

You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it’s evolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don’t you know that you can count me out
Don’t you know it’s gonna be all right

You say you got a real solution
Well, you know
We’d all love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well, you know
We’re doing what we can
But when you want money
for people with minds that hate
All I can tell is brother you have to wait
Don’t you know it’s gonna be all right

You say you’ll change the constitution
Well, you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it’s the institution
Well, you know
You better free you mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of chairman Mao
You ain’t going to make it with anyone anyhow
Don’t you know it’s gonna be all right

The highlighting above was added by me. Clearly, Lennon was interested in world unity without violence or government forced compliance. “Imagine” is a song of hope and aspiration to an idealized society where greed, and chauvinism do not rule the day. How anything sinister could be surmised from it is beyond me.

Imagine there’s no Heaven
It’s easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there’s no countries
It isn’t hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say that I’m a dreamer
But I’m not the only one
I hope someday you’ll join us
And the world will live as one

The progress of the human race will come to a screeching halt when we can no longer imagine.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

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121 thoughts on “We Must Imagine

  1. Rutherford. Well said. I haven’t always been a Lennon fan, and surely he was a very controversial figure. But he was very compassionate. Many think that is a weakness, yet it is what makes humans more important than animals. It threatens the majority of mankind, because they cannot deal with the vulnerability. With an inherent evil and greed nature passed off as a survival instinct, it goes against the flow.

  2. Lennon was a hypocrite of the first order. Matter of fact, that was the reason his killer Mark David Chapman gave for killing him. Mind you, I’m not lending my approval to the murder, but only Chapman understood what a phony Lennon was.

    Let’s remember, while John was singing,

    Imagine no possessions
    I wonder if you can
    No need for greed or hunger
    A brotherhood of man
    Imagine all the people
    Sharing all the world

    While he lived in a luxury high rise next to Central Park, estimated worth $30M and had a net worth upon his death of over $250M. This was 30 years ago, mind you.

    Lennon is the perfect example of the hypocritical blind who talk a great game of utopia, but have absolutely no idea what represents utopia. Mindless inanity and drivel.

    Lennon as an excellent example of a savant idiot – a musical genius and completely inane concerning anything else – like a large part of Hollywood and his pal McCartney. Lennon was both uneducated and shallow – and I’m a Beatles fan, because I can separate the men from the music.

    Surprisingly Ringo, the least talented of the four, turned out to be far and away the smartest.

  3. Yawn.

    Really, with your party in complete meltdown right now, THIS was the most pressing issue on your mind?

  4. Too bad you cannot recognize true character and conviction, Tex. It is definitely to your own detriment. He was not a sinless man, that is fact. Yet he didn’t pretend to be, either. He certainly enjoyed some excesses and abuses. He legitimately earned his wealth and made others wealthy. You are denying him the very things you claim your ideology stands for. Sounds like the American dream, yet you would deny it to him. Why did he not have a right to luxury? He wasn’t born with a silver spoon in his hand. He had talent and a vision.

    He was an outspoken opponent of Nixon and war. He was a peacemaker. You seem to oppose them. Neocons were trying to keep him out of the country. He was under constant surveillance, and had a huge agency file. You can “imagine” Chapman was just a loon. The evidence just doesn’t support that conspiracy.

  5. The evidence just doesn’t support that conspiracy.

    Quite the contrary, Chapman’s own defense was (when Satan wasn’t telling him to do it), Lennon’s hypocrisy concerning materialism was what Chapman felt so personally offensive.

    You’re incredibly naive – Lennon, a man of “peace.” 🙄

    Lennon was such a “peacemaker” that abandoned his first child Julian and according to his first wife was involved in hundreds of affairs once famous – that is, when he knocking his first wife Cynthia around with his sporadic rages before she filed for protection.

    Sound like an admirable man to you Poolman?

  6. My favorite pseudo-Beatles album is George Harrison’s Wonder Wall Music.

    That’s because its all kick ass psychedelic instrumentals. (With, I might add, the help of Lennon, Clapton, Donavon and maybe even Ravi Shankar).

    Your recycled rhetoric rings as hollow as an Oprah book club get together at a chain coffee shop. It means nothing to real world motherfuckers.

    Hey…I’m down for a little escapism too. But, instead, lets skip the pedantic and melodramatic lectures and just tune in and tune out, maaan.

  7. Chapman was right. Lennon was a Catcher in the Rye style phony. But damn Chapman….the worst phony of them all is a man who shoots another in the back.

  8. Then again, today seems to be a day for paying homage to dead musicians. Jim Morrison got pardoned today for showing his pecker on stage 40 years ago.

    Meanwhile, Rome continues to burn…….

  9. Obviously you guys are too young to have experienced the peace and free love movement that swept through American during the 60’s and 70’s. I sense a slight hint of jealousy. Yeah, Lennon was in the big middle of it. Yeah, it had it’s immoral level, but it sure turned the establishment on its head. It solidified the youth of the whole nation and gave them a voice.

    I wish we could muster the same level of activism against injustice today. It managed to slow the MIC down, but couldn’t match its mighty power in the long run. Peace beats war any day of the week in my book.

  10. Yeah rabbit. All those years in gitmo without representation and subject to torture and we turned those that weren’t into terrorists. But that’s okay. They need to keep making these terrorists so we can keep up the war on them. We’re geared up for it. It’s called jobs and profit. Don’t you see how this shit works? You think the drug war is real too, don’t you?

  11. “All those years in gitmo without representation…”

    Yeah, if only they had had lawyers, they would not have turned to terrorism….

  12. “It is interesting to me that whenever we suggest to the wealthy or to the establishment that we should share, the suggestion gets labeled with the most scary political labels at their disposal.”

    It does? From what I see, it’s the exact opposite.

    Did you mean “conservatives” whose charitable donations vastly exceeds the left’s?

    Funny, your concept of sharing. You seem to equate it with government confiscation. How generous of you.

  13. Lol…we turned them into terrorists.

    Poolman, if “Amerika” is so completely orchestrated by a secret cabal that pulls the wool over our eyes with such premeditated and malicious design, then why don’t you do something about it?

    Is it because you’re a pusy or a pacifist?

    Rise up! Fight the matrix!

    If I somehow had access to your amazing” facts” that prove things such as 9/11 was an inside job and that Cheney is actually Aaron Burr reincarnated, I would go to war. I would be making IEDs in my basement.

    You’re impossible to seat at the grown up table.

    Since you control the entire narrative to such an extent that you can make any fact or figure vaporize by simply citing the “matrix”, your really not worth talking to.

    You do realize the world you have created in your mind would require hundreds of thousands of “secret keepers”?

    Silly Truther, tricks are for kids.

  14. I see poolman is yet another baby boomer who has had a rib removed so he suck his own dick.

    So, I’m supposed to golf clap for the generation that bankrupted America and screwed over every generation that came after because they went to fucking Woodstock?

    I thought we were not supposed to trust anyone over 30?

    Your free love youth movement sure churned out some awesome elders.

  15. I wish we could muster the same level of activism against injustice today. It managed to slow the MIC down, but couldn’t match its mighty power in the long run.

    The same fine generation that has wrought a pandemic of STD’s (one out of three under 25 now have an incurable one), Charlie Manson and Sirhan Sirhan, spit on returning soldiers to the chants of “Baby Killer”, rioted in the streets stoned and disrupted the 1968 Dimocratic Convention, promoted radicalism, oversaw the assassination of Robert Kennedy and MLK, coordinated association with the Black Panthers and SDS, Kent State, The Weather Underground (Obama’s pals), gave us the American hating academicians tenured at college campuses today,

    The only thing good to come out of 60s radicalism I’ve witnessed was some timeless music (like the Beatles)

  16. The only thing good to come out of 60s radicalism I’ve witnessed was some timeless music (like the Beatles)

    I’m not sure I identify the Beatles with radicalism. Lennon, yes, the Beatles, not so much. I think that McCartney and Harrison were savy-enough businessmen to avoid anything resembling anything more radical than the ingestion of powerful halucinigenics. Lennon’s Jesus remark early on cost them, and they knew going there again would cost them even more.

    And frankly, I liked Abbey Road, The White Album, Sgt. Peppers, and the Magical Mystery Tour.

  17. Tex, you’re missing the point. To the poolmen of the world, those are the good things

    Oh yeah. 😆 I forgot – legitimate point. That’s what Liberals consider “progress”, Yeller Dawg being a prime example.

    When you have regressed back to zero like he has, there’s no where to go but up.

  18. I’m not sure I identify the Beatles with radicalism. Lennon, yes, the Beatles, not so much. I think that McCartney and Harrison were savy-enough businessmen to avoid anything resembling anything more radical than the ingestion of powerful halucinigenics.

    Think so? I always considered three of the four way out. McCartney has only shown has true colors of idiocy recently. Harrison ran around with the Krishnas for a time, but that’s as much as I can remember of far out.

    Agree with you on the Beatles great albums, the White Album being my personal favorite.

    I never thought 30 years ago that the Stones would show more sense than the Beatles, but it has turned out that way. Mick Jagger is far more intelligent than Sir Paul, for instance and Roger Daltrey is undoubtedly the Ted Nugent version of Britain.

    I saw Roger on some show one night and he would have lit Rutherford’s pants on fire with his political rhetoric.

  19. Speaking of the Who, I dedicate this tune to Rutherford – seems fitting considering the current circumstances. 😉

  20. BiW, just when I think we can’t agree on anything, you say your fav Who song is Eminence Front. Damn straight boyyyyyyyyyy!!!

    Come and join our party, dressed to kill.

  21. Tex … believe me … I have often thought over the past few weeks, “meet the new boss, same as the old boss

    🙂

    Figured you had. I like to better think of it as “Yes We Can! Meets Reality”

  22. Silly Truther, tricks are for kids.

    And sometimes for tricky rabbits

    Just finally admit it. The reality is that mankind is inherently evil and no politician or man of any kind can change that. Everyone is afraid somebody is going to take their share and they won’t have enough for themselves. This has been happening since the beginning. Nothing’s changed except the armaments.

    Everything needs to be on the table. I don’t care who has more as long as it is all above board. If you can operate like that, there is hope. Otherwise it’s dog eat dog. And you’re already a dead rabbit.

  23. Just finally admit it. The reality is that mankind is inherently evil and no politician or man of any kind can change that.

    Abby Hoffman meets John Calvin. Both were full of shit. It is stunning to see the Left pull out a heretical and fringe Christian theological concept like “the inherent evil of Man” and try to pass it off as not only reality, but a premise on which to base our politics. The communists believed in the “improvability” of Man, and it was a nightmare. The problem isn’t that your philosophy is wrong, it’s that it’s been tried and found wanting, and you either ignore history or are completely incurious about it.

    Everyone is afraid somebody is going to take their share and they won’t have enough for themselves.

    The Democrat party has as their platform taking people’s stuff and giving to their adherents. This at a time when many of those same people don’t have enough for themselves. “Imagine no possessions”. That’s not a song; it’s the Democrat’s economic plan. This is the current reality, not some boogeyman under the bed. Look at the current tax debate. “This tax cut will cost the government $XXX.” The underlying premise is that your shit belongs to everyone else, and it’s up to the government to see who gets it. That’s communism. They are communists. I don’t know how much simpler this could be. Ask an old Ukrainian farmer about being afraid that
    “somebody is going to take their share and they won’t have enough for themselves.” Again, it’s in the history books. Those are those things in your bookcase that you haven’t read, next to the well-thumbed copy of “Everything I Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten”.

  24. Abby Hoffman meets John Calvin. Both were full of shit.

    Those are those things in your bookcase that you haven’t read, next to the well-thumbed copy of “Everything I Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten”.

    What I learned from kindergarden is that opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one. Nobody thinks their own shit stinks. When you have no argument attack the other’s intellect or character.

    Thank you for the validation.

    It ALWAYS has been good versus evil. It. ALWAYS. Boils. Down. To. That. Period.

  25. When you have no argument attack the other’s intellect or character.

    I’m not attacking your character at all.

    It ALWAYS has been good versus evil. It. ALWAYS. Boils. Down. To. That. Period.

    Of course it does. There’s right and there’s wrong, and it’s not defined by intent but by outcome. The outcomes the Left aims for are evil, no matter what their intent might be.

    Nobody thinks their own shit stinks.

    While I may believe mine smells like roses, I’ve been informed by others in the household that’s not the case. Unlike the religiously deluded leftist, whose only feedback is from those in his own little bubble, I can listen and judge other opinions. I can examine what others in history have said about shit in general and apply it to my own shit. I can admit that bases on what I know, myshit, does in fact, stink.

    Let’s take a look at a typical Poolman brain dribble:

    All those years in gitmo without representation and subject to torture and we turned those that weren’t into terrorists. But that’s okay. They need to keep making these terrorists so we can keep up the war on them. We’re geared up for it. It’s called jobs and profit. Don’t you see how this shit works?

    You have no evidence for any of this. You have not an iota of fact on your side here. It’s just the asshole of your opinion, and that’s not even an honest assessment because the purpose of this statement is not to speak of any actual truth, but to reinforce your bubble and endear yourself to the others in it. It’s part of the fantasy of being a good little Leftist, with perhaps the advantage of getting some from a chick with armpit hair. What it is not, however, is a serious proposition of fact.

  26. In this morning’s Tulsa World, I read that the new message from a very small but very loud contingent of Humanists located throughout the area, used to change the name Christmas parade to the ‘more inclusive’ “Holiday” parade, is now that the name violates the Establishment clause.

    Being no lawyer, I wondered, “how can this be, being it is a privately funded parade?” That then got me to thinking even further, “what federal holiday are we celebrating this December 25th?”

    Because I could have sworn the federal holiday is officially called CHRIST MASS and was officially declared so in 1870 and has never been changed.

    So my question to you lawyer types is, “what has changed between 2010 and 1870, and do you want to bet the next fight is to remove the name ‘Christmas’ from the Federal Holiday rolls?

  27. The mistake that Herr makes is to assume leftists are the only ones who live in an echo chamber. That of course is absurd. Both ends of the political spectrum are equally guilty of hanging with their own kind and getting nothing but positive reinforcement. To think otherwise is delusional.

  28. Of course it does. There’s right and there’s wrong, and it’s not defined by intent but by outcome. The outcomes the Left aims for are evil, no matter what their intent might be.

    The end justifies the means mentality. Intent IS the issue. You reap what you sow, aka karma. It may take lifetimes. We have no control over time, only the choices we can make in the moment.

    Most people travel this planet without vision. Some take God along as a guide. A “co-pilot”, if you will. Others let Him lead.

    Here’s an analogy. Think of it like you are an arrow. You have been created from the finest the earth has to offer. Your Creator has taken into account every consideration to you landing on a target. Now, as He takes that bow and draws back, and lets go of the string, you enter “reality”. Time is His domain. Creation is His pleasure, the earth His playground, if you will. Once you are released into it, you are facing the resistance of the atmoshere. That is the friction and drag working to slow you down.

    There are worlds within worlds within worlds within worlds to explore and distract us along this journey. If we are the pilot, we go for the shiny stuff. We think we have vision. We don’t need no stinking directions! Let me fly this thing! I know what’s best for me. Silly humans.

    We don’t see from the same prospective as the One that draws that bow.

    Life’s a glorious journey that has been spun into motion. There are many paths. It’s important to have good light. 😉

    With the internet and the FOIA, you can do your own research into the facts. Facts are not biased. Interpretation is. I choose to see both sides of a coin. Regardless of what side I am looking at, it is still holds the same intrinsic value.

  29. So my question to you lawyer types is, “what has changed between 2010 and 1870, and do you want to bet the next fight is to remove the name ‘Christmas’ from the Federal Holiday rolls?

    In 1949. Justice Hugo Black “discovered” that the Establishment Clause actually contained a “Wall of Separation between church and state”, a condition miraculously undiscovered by previous attorneys, jurists, and politicians, including those who actually wrote it. Because of the populatiry of the idea of a living, breathing Constitution, which conveniently allows collusive jurists and politicans to pretend that the Constitution says what they want it to say, without any deferrence to stare decisis (unless they want it to apply) this newly discovered concept subsequently evolved into an actual polarity shift between church and state that mandated that government could not even have a passive connection to anything religious (unless you are talking about writing on federal buildings and landmarks, currency, the national motto, and Congressional and Military Chaplins), to the Freedom not to be offended by many things, including religion. (unless it is a non-western religion, which means it must be tolerated to the point of preference, you infidel.)

  30. People say I’m crazy
    doing what I’m doing,
    Well they give me all kinds of warnings
    to save me from ruin,
    When I say that I’m o.k.
    they look at me kind of strange,
    Surely you’re not happy now
    you no longer play the game,

    People say I’m lazy
    dreaming my life away,
    Well they give me all kinds of advice
    designed to enlighten me,
    When I tell that I’m doing Fine
    watching shadows on the wall,
    Don’t you miss the big time boy
    you’re no longer on the ball?

    I’m just sitting here watching
    the wheels go round and round,
    I really love to watch them roll,
    No longer riding on the merry-go-round,
    I just had to let it go,

    People asking questions lost in confusion,
    Well I tell them there’s no problem,
    Only solutions,
    Well they shake their heads and they look at me
    as if I’ve lost my mind,
    I tell them there’s no hurry…
    I’m just sitting here doing time,

    I’m just sitting here watching the wheels
    go round and round,
    I really love to watch them roll,
    No longer riding on the merry-go-round,
    I just had to let it go.

  31. I said this at BiW’s place, but all this chatting of Lennon makes me miss HP. I know I wouldn’t agree with him anymore thanI agree with R on this, but I know I would have seen something from him.

  32. I’m not nearly as qualified as you BIC concerning such matters, but it seems to me if our useful idiots for leadership pertaining to judicial matters believe in this “wall of separation” should exclude any semblance of the Christian faith from the public square, then they need to completely do away with both the Christian and Thanksgiving holidays. They make a mockery of our heritage under the guise of “inclusion” and “diversity.”

    I think the only reason that hasn’t happened has nothing to do with the supposed “Wall” and everything to do with these humanist poseurs who enjoy the time off, the parties, the wine, women and song, the lights.

    Christ must at this very minute be looking at all of us, those that refuse to acknowledge Him, and those too gutless to stand up to the judicial activist bullies hiding behind their robes and cowering like beaten dogs because they might be inconvenienced or ridiculed, and weep.

    I make a lot of fun of attorneys BIC, but I am old enough to know there are thousands of them out there like you, bright and with enough wisdom to do the right thing the right way.

    But I am beginning to believe that your mindset vastly outnumbered in your own profession.

    I hope I am wrong.

  33. Gorilla,

    I too thought about HP when I read this article. I bet we could have enjoyed a good give and take, he finally repulsed by my answers :smile:. I left his family a message at Thanksgiving, knowing fully well that would prove a difficult time but it looks like his board is now completely unattended.

    I don’t want him forgotten.

    And I am almost certain HP would have approached Lennon as some seer, and he and I would have gotten into the mindless opinions we like to convey. Would have been fun.

  34. “I don’t want him forgotten.”

    He isn’t. In fact, just a couple days ago I was thinking about something and actually forgot he was gone….

  35. I make a lot of fun of attorneys BIC, but I am old enough to know there are thousands of them out there like you, bright and with enough wisdom to do the right thing the right way.

    I screw plenty of things up. That’s why they call it “practicing” law.

    But I am beginning to believe that your mindset vastly outnumbered in your own profession.

    Dude, this profession has always been about us vs. them. An old codger I know here in town always says of other members of our tribe “They’re the enemy.”

  36. Dude, this profession has always been about us vs. them. An old codger I know here in town always says of other members of our tribe “They’re the enemy.”

    Fellow Dude, was it lawyers that ginned up the cliche, “It’s a dog eat dog world?”

    If not, it should have been. 🙂

  37. The mistake that Herr makes is to assume leftists are the only ones who live in an echo chamber.

    Oh no. I see plenty of echo chamber conservatives, too. They can’t articulate why the believe a certain thing, either. Years ago we had a Republican congresscritter who was picture perfect: he had the hair, the dimples, the bright blue eyes…central casting. He was also about as bright as corrugated cardboard. “Who gives a shit. He votes right” was the general consensus. But it bothered me because this guy was truly stupid. He was an echo chamber conservative.

  38. Wonder if Graychin and Rutherford shit the proverbial gold brick when they find out their “science” got it wrong all along? All their mocking, their arrogance, their faith in modern science evaporates in one nanonsecond.

    Will we still hear the stories of modern nihilists venturing they know better than those “myths” of the people who lived it? Record it?

    And make sure to read the last paragraph Rutherford. The secularist who still hasn’t figured it out. Still mixing the old simian Neaderthal with “stone age” men. Pitiful and entertaining both for people interested in science without putting their faith in science.

    Hell, these bozos have to provide ranges of 25-150K years just to cover their asses. And this is “your faith” Rutherford. You want to put your soul on the line with this stooges. Be my guest. 😆

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20101210/sc_livescience/lostcivilizationmayhaveexistedbeneaththepersiangulf

  39. Oh no. I see plenty of echo chamber conservatives, too. They can’t articulate why the believe a certain thing, either. Years ago we had a Republican congresscritter who was picture perfect: he had the hair, the dimples, the bright blue eyes…central casting. He was also about as bright as corrugated cardboard. “Who gives a shit. He votes right” was the general consensus. But it bothered me because this guy was truly stupid. He was an echo chamber conservative.

    With analysis like that, I’m wondering if you too came out on the wrong end of the consensus in the COD bloodletting at the Mothership a little ways back.

  40. Man “R”, what has happened to the Progressive base? Have they abandoned their principles, whatever those were? They are savaging Obama – cussing him publicly.

    Obama would have made a spectacular president….of an African nation.

    Merry Christmas Happy Holidays and keep you’re chin up Rutherford – there’s always the hope for the big comeback in 2011.

    I figure The One will come crawling back to you after the new Congress, because you, Ms. Flake, and the menacing soldiers Graychin and Yeller Dawg may be all he’s got left. 🙂

  41. Parties…

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Bill Clinton implored Democrats to back the tax-cut deal that President Barack Obama negotiated with Republicans as the former president made a surprise appearance at Obama’s side in the White House briefing room Friday.

    “I don’t believe there is a better deal out there,” Clinton told reporters who’d been summoned at a moment’s notice to see the former chief executive back the current one. Clinton and Obama had just finished a private meeting in the Oval Office.

    Obama said it was a “terrific meeting” and then turned the podium over to Clinton.

    The voluble former president took it away, and Obama left part-way through his remarks, saying he had holiday parties to attend.

    “Both sides are going to have to eat some things they don’t like,” Clinton told reporters. “We don’t want to slip back into a recession. We’ve got to keep this thing going and accelerate its pace. I think this is the best available option.”

  42. Old Gorilla just took my steam, but I wanted to ask our resident lefties here, “when did Clinton become the new President?” 🙂

    Did Obama abscond his Kingdom “R”?

    What an embarrassment the Dimocratic party has become. Listening to Slick brought back great memories – better memories than what we’ve had since 2008 for sure.

    Anybody ever know what became of Monica? Last I read, she was living in London and accusing Clinton of rewriting history by “besmirching” her character. What a joke! 😆

    A perfect lib!!!!

  43. I’m willing to give Obama a little slack here.

    After all, he did manage to get 69 Republicans new jobs. Let’s give a big hooray! 🙂

    Rutherford get your ass in here and suffer the humiliation like a man!

    I’m only teasing with you, but I damn sure wish that pompous asshole Graychin or buffoon Yeller Dawg would storming in. I’m in the mood to slap the shit out of lib for gross incompetence and monumentally bad judgment, and you’re too good a guy to smack.

  44. Just think. I was but a short 27 months ago Bill Clinton was accused of being racist!

    😈 😈

    I knew it was going to fall apart for these stooges. But I never dreamed Obama’s overbearing wife would be calling the shots this soon.

    Get in here and mop this shit up! We got a party to attend to! 😆

  45. Yeah Obama is so inept at being the President of the United States he is now just letting past presidents deal with America’s pesky questions while he runs off to have milk and cookies.

  46. Man, I don’t recall ever seeing anything like that before. There is no way Clinton didn’t realize how tuned up everyone would get over this. I mean, it had to be calculated, right? But, if so…wtf? Was it the ultimate slap in the face from the pro to the overwhelmed, under water child-king?

    I had to rub my eyes and double take. Did Obama really just put his back to us and walk away? For a party!!! And did Clinton really just stand there raw dog, pontificating like he is the prez for all that time?

    What is the left blogosphere saying about this?

    So weird.

  47. Ok…been real busy. I’m just learning that the tax bill is actually another massive spending bill.

    These people are INSANE.

    We are done.

    We will never get it.

    No wonder Bank of America is snatching up silver like no tomorrow.

  48. Just keep watching the monkeys center stage, while the wolves are at the back door stealing your liberty and future, keeping the these wars ongoing.

    Ah, the drug wars. Before we invaded Afghanistan, the illegal opium trade was just about wiped out by the Taliban. It’s been on the rise since our invasion, now it is the world’s largest producer, providing 82% in 2006.

    It is fair to say that the Bush administration, through the efforts of Attorney General John Ashcroft, has confirmed its complicity in the 9/11/01 attacks.

    Long-gagged FBI whistleblower’s full under-oath testimony from Ohio election case, details Congressional blackmail, bribery, espionage, infiltration 😯 This same whistleblower testified to advanced US government advanced knowledge of attacks on NYC and was issued gag order by Ashcroft.


    Kill the Messenger

  49. “I was at the 2004 Democratic Convention, where I watched Bill Clinton deliver a very effective, though completely wrongheaded, attack on the Bush tax rates. Today I turn on the TV to see Bill Clinton holding a White House news conference to endorse those same tax rates. It’s great to see him come around, even if his return to the presidential podium runs counter to the spirit of the 22nd Amendment. ~ James Taranto

  50. Yeah, you’re right, Poolman.

    We should have left the Taliban in power in Afghanistan so they could police the opium there.

    Of course, had we done that you’d be crying about how we are using an oppressive puppet government to police the opium there.

  51. Troofer Alert! Troofer Alert!

    In other news, Geraldo Rivera today found an empty whiskey bottle, filthy rag and four mouse turds in Al Capone’s vault.

  52. A Palin Post worth blogging Rutherford!!!

    Palin Hating, Columbia Professor, Huffington Post Blogger busted for Incest

    Upon Sarah Palin’s resignation of the Alaska governship, one David Epstein wrote at his Huffington Post Blog:

    Palin has done what weak, self-centered people do when the going gets tough — they quit and blame someone else.

    Details:

    Epstein had relations with his daughter, now 24, from 2006 through 2009, the complaint said.

    So, according to his own daughter, Professor Pervo was engaged in this twisted behavior the whole time he was blogging at PuffHO.

    😮

  53. Epstein accused Republicans of ”taking hypocrisy in their personal lives to new levels of self-indulgent weirdness.”

    You can’ t make this stuff up! He’s an Obama Donor!

    HAW HAW HAW!!!

    HuffPO hypocrisy at its finest.

  54. We should have left the Taliban in power in Afghanistan so they could police the opium there.

    Of course, had we done that you’d be crying about how we are using an oppressive puppet government to police the opium there.

    You think we don’t want the drugs to be grown, don’t you? Ah, to be young and naive again. Such wonderful bliss. BTW, the government IS a US puppet. Don’t bother yourself with any research. I’m sure your prophets will keep you posted. That’s what they get paid for, afterall.

  55. If by “truther” you mean someone who subscribes to conspiracy theories about American participation in the 9/11 attacks – no. I am not.

    I do not rule out some coverup of some of the facts about the origins of the attacks – that would have embarrassed government officials.

    Or embarrassed our good friends the Saudis.

  56. Rabbit @ 65:

    I was really disgusted at first with Obama’s capitulation to Boehner on the tax bill. But the more I see of the details, the more I think that Obama may have pulled off a coup.

    In exchange for giving the Rs their eternal prime objective (lower income and estate taxes for the wealthiest 1%), he got a HUGE stimulus that the Rs would have hated under any other circumstances.

    Is this the first act of the “new” Republican party? The one that learned its lesson and has pledged itself to fiscal responsibility? No more of that drunken sailor shit like during the Bush years?

    Yeah. Meet the new Rs. Same as the old Rs.

  57. Yeah G … HP being both a musician and somewhat of an idealist would definitely have chimed in on this conversation. I can’t swear he would have agreed with me but he would have opined one way or the other.

    Still seems like fiction that he’s gone.

  58. Tex, I wish someone would close comments on HP’s blog but let the articles remain. Every now and then I see a dumbass spam message get through on some article of his that I subscribed to and it feels like vultures feeding off a corpse. I’ve been tempted to leave a comment there for someone to close the comments but I doubt it would get seen at this point. 😦

  59. Gotta go to bed …. been burning the candle at both ends and the middle’s getting way too warm.

    I leave with just one thought, echoing what I tweeted earlier this evening. Obama lets Bill Clinton take over press meeting — WTF??? I’ve never seen Obama look so weak nor have I ever been this embarrassed.

    Somebody please wake me up ‘cos this week has been one f*cking political nightmare. 😯

  60. “Don’t bother yourself with any research. ”

    I have done more research regarding this region than you could possibly imagine.

  61. ” I’ve never seen Obama look so weak…”

    He is visibly overwhelmed. I am starting to wonder if he’s going to last the next 2 years.

    We told you this would happen……

  62. Rutherford…

    “Imagine” is a song of hope and aspiration to an idealized society where greed, and chauvinism do not rule the day.

    Good post. Of course idolizing any pop star is generally a poor idea, Lennon would be no exception. But the song has some fine, fine lyrics. You wonder what would compel someone to criticize such idealistic hopeful notions.

    I mean, Jesus said much the same and you don’t generally see him getting mocked for his idealism.

    Blessed are you who are poor,
    for yours is the kingdom of God.
    Blessed are you who hunger now,
    for you will be satisfied.
    Blessed are you who weep now,
    for you will laugh…

    “Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, because great is your reward in heaven…

    Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.

    If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them.

    Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back.

    Do to others as you would have them do to you…

    Our God in heaven,
    hallowed be your name,
    your kingdom come,
    your will be done,
    on earth as it is in heaven

    Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes?

    Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life?

    “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these.

    If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you

    I know that many here are not Christians, but even non-Christians generally refrain from mocking Jesus’ idealistic, “Realm of God begins here and now” sort of teachings.

    I guess it’s easier to pick on the recent dead than someone considered to be the Son of God by many.

  63. And, just in case someone mistakes the intent of my previous comment… I’m NOT comparing John Lennon to Jesus Christ. Just the lyrics of his song to some of Jesus’ teachings.

    Just to be clear…

  64. ” I’ve never seen Obama look so weak nor have I ever been this embarrassed.”

    R, you went up ten notches for your honesty, unlike thge usual sophistry from the likes of G-chin who will likely try to characterize it something other than what it was. This stunt is an enormous failing of Obama and your party. An unprecedented embarrassment for the entire country.

    Like Huck, I too think Obama is in over his head and wonder he can last. I would laugh if it weren’t so horrific to watch. Ceding his authority to his predecesor then walking off to attend parties? Holy fucking shit.

    I thought I would never, ever,ever, ever, ever say this: I can’t believe even Clinton would participate in an act so undignified. What a disgrace.

  65. Poolman,

    Let me get this straight. You want the government who attacked us on September 11th due to its illegal smack supply being cut off to administer health care to every single American?

    I need to start ignoring you.

  66. The only thing I can come up with is that Clinton alpha dogged our President.

    Its one of the most baffling things I’ve ever seen in politics.

    I hate to bring teaching into this. But, everyone knows there are ways to make a rookie teacher with no confidence and charisma look like a total idiot by merely taking the floor after him. Its the oldest trick in the book.

    I swear Clinton weakened our standing as a country so that he could get the last laugh or something.

    I guess this is the kind of thing that could only happen to someone who has NEVER governed. A rookie Senator who has possibly never made an executive decision in his life has no business being President.

    I wonder what Clinton’s stunt looks like in the eyes of the Putins of the world?

    Or am I wrong and Obama wanted this to happen?

  67. Lennon’s lyrics are the opposite of Jesus’ teachings.

    As is much of what is preached in a lot of “Christian” churches every Sunday morning:

    “God wants you and I to be wealthy. When we get ours, to hell with everyone else.”

    “God likes it when we drop bombs on brown people.”

    “God loves it when Jews kick the heck out of those awful Palestinians. Because God GAVE that land to the Jews, 3,000 years ago.”

    “Jesus is a big supporter of English Only. Of the DREAM Act – not so much.”

    And so on.

    Jesus has become something of an ink blot. What you focus on in his teachings says more about you than it does about Jesus.

    John Lennon is a lot like that too. Take Black = White, for example.

  68. DR, Your comment reminds me of Putin/Medvedev. Some folks abroad must be wondering if Clinton has started running the country behind the scenes.

    I woke up hoping I had dreamed this. Apparently not. 😦

  69. R, perhaps you’ll run into Obama at a cocktail party and can ask him. I hope they have shrimp.

    Rabbit, you don’t alpha dog the president unless he permits you to. Obama just turned the wheel back over to an adult. Clinton is loving this. Both Putin and Medved are laughing. Nobody is running the country in front of or behind the scenes.

  70. Both Putin and Medved are laughing.

    Rutherford which is exactly one of many reasons START ratification should be scrapped. Clintons comments at 6:41-8:06 fly in direct opposition to realities and the imagery from the presser only compound your comment.

  71. Tigre…

    Lennon’s lyrics are the opposite of Jesus’ teachings.

    Perhaps some of them are. You’d have to provide some specific examples. BUT, “imagine a world with no greed, with no hatred, with no want…” THESE are Christ’s teachings. The Christ who came to proclaim, he said, “Good news to the poor,” the Christ who said, “Blessed are you who are poor,” the Christ whose poor teen mother said, “God has filled the hungry with good things but has sent the rich away empty…”

    Imagine that!

  72. I have done more research regarding this region than you could possibly imagine.

    With your attention span, Huck? More that I can *imagine*, eh?
    Hmmmmm…

    Ok, I’ll bite. What do know about Sibel Edmonds and Colleen Rowley? What is it they share with the fated John Patrick O’Neill?

    If you have done your homework as you suggest, you wouldn’t have to do any googling. Take your time…

    Let me get this straight. You want the government who attacked us on September 11th due to its illegal smack supply being cut off to administer health care to every single American?

    Rabbit, you’re smarter than that.

    Factions in our government, complicity by our government, and hijacking of persons and agencies within our government, are not the same and synonymous with “our government”. The drug involvement by factions in our government has been ongoing for centuries. One of the best know is our involvement with the Contras in Nicaragua exposed in the Reagan administration.

    Besides, I already said our government needs to be stripped down to it’s original core intent and return to the republic it was set up as. Big business is too intermingled and usurps too much control from it and they “own” most of our “public servants”.

    It’s like the baby and bathwater analogy.

    Dan, well said. You must be the Dan I was accused of being.

    Imagine scales dropping from the eyes of the lemmings.
    It’s easy if you try. That’s a part of my daily prayer.

  73. “God wants you and I to be wealthy. When we get ours, to hell with everyone else.”

    “God likes it when we drop bombs on brown people.”

    “God loves it when Jews kick the heck out of those awful Palestinians. Because God GAVE that land to the Jews, 3,000 years ago.”

    “Jesus is a big supporter of English Only. Of the DREAM Act – not so much.”

    What church says those things? Or is this just more baseless, lefty demagoguery like how we are “occupying” foreign countries?

  74. “With your attention span, Huck?”

    My attention span includes the last 4 years studying classical and modern Islamic and Middle East societies, and 2 years of studying Islamist guerrilla movements….and includes the study of both scholarly and primary source material, not that of FBI whistleblowers.

  75. Ok poolman. I’ll rewrite it. Let’s have the government composed of rogue factions so dastardly that they attacked the towers to peddle smack administer health care to all of us.

    You don’t disgust me because of your silly stories. You disgust me because of your lack of action. I would wage war against my government if I believed your elaborate conspiracies involving thousands of people.

  76. Impressive, Huck. I hope you are studying both sides of those coins. There is a lot of one-sided ideology backed by tremendous wealth regarding those topics out there. Money trails are usually more accurate. Two of the biggest ever were covered and investigations stopped cold due to destruction of evidence on that fateful September day. By coincidence, of course.

    Rabbit, my war is not against flesh and blood. Therefore, it is a spiritual battle. I am there 24/7, guaranteed. As far as any other efforts I am working on to expose evil, I won’t offer the details. This internet thingie isn’t as anonymous as we may imagine.

    If my suspicions and theories prove wrong, I will be the first to admit it and apologize to anyone that may have been mislead by my actions or words. Until then, I’ll keep the Patrick Henry spirit going. 😉

  77. Dan said, “Perhaps some of them are. You’d have to provide some specific examples. BUT, “imagine a world with no greed, with no hatred, with no want…” THESE are Christ’s teachings.”

    Huh? Lennon’s imagined world was one that existed in the asbence of God and religion.

  78. He imagined no religion (concerned, I’m sure, about the great deal of violence and hatred perpetrated in the name of religion), but I don’t believe he imagined a world without God. Not in that song, anyway.

    I repeat:

    “imagine a world with no greed, with no hatred, with no want…” THESE are Christ’s teachings.”

    Do you understand my point, Tigre? A world built upon Kingdom of God values – love, not hatred, sharing, not greed, peace, not war – these are values that Christ taught. Do you disagree? If not, then no problem, we agree.

  79. As is much of what is preached in a lot of “Christian” churches every Sunday morning:

    Not to point out the obvious, but how would you know blowhard? Christian Church would be like kryptonite to you.

    The only church I ever heard your accusation, Rev. Jeremiah was leading Obama’s family in sermon – substituting brown for white, of course.

  80. BiW…

    I spelled it out very clearly in my response.

    Sorry, I haven’t read your blog of late. Being busy requires cutting out some things and your blog didn’t make the cut. If I get a chance, I’ll stop by there sometime to see what your rationale is.

  81. Dan, I can not endure another exchange of this nature although it seems I invited it.

    I understand the lyrics.

    I understand the human “traits and characteristics” recited are valued by both Lennon and Christianity — contrary to G-chin’s idiotic statement above.

    None of this is inconsistent with what I said. Read the lyics.

    Please. The disagreement is not “your point” about what Jesus’ valued and preached. The manufactured “disagreement” is quite obviously the meaning of the lyrics and Lennon’s point.

    Merry Christmas.

    I will not respond to you further on this of respect for Rutherford who asked that we not attack your manner of argument, which is impossible with your insulting call-and-response.

    (I would like to see you respond to what G-chin said though).

  82. “Therefore, it is a spiritual battle”-poolman

    You think our own government slaughtered us on 9/11 and your waging a spiritual battle about it?

    I’d like to get you in a head lock, fart on your face and then make you tell me how my spirit smells.

  83. Which Patrick Henry would that be?

    Is there more that one? If so, then the one who said:

    “The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them.”

    You think our own government slaughtered us on 9/11 and your waging a spiritual battle about it?

    Please reread my comments to you @ 102. I did not claim what you are saying. The spiritual warfare part applies. I have read the nine eleven commission’s report and it does not do anything to enlighten us to the events of that day. As a matter of fact, most of members of that commission have come out in public to say they were not given the resources needed or cooperation required to make an accurate assessment of the event. Afterall, they were initially allocated only 3 million dollars to work with. After complaining and appealing to the administration, the budget was increased to 15 million.

    We spent 30 million on the Monica Lewinsky investigation. We spent around 200 million each on the space shuttle disasters. So really we would just like to see a REAL investigation performed. That is what the “truther” movement is calling for. Several other nations have already done so, and the evidence is quite damning.

    I’d like to get you in a head lock, fart on your face and then make you tell me how my spirit smells.

    Quite the contortionist, rabbit. Is this your standard greeting, or a special one reserved for me? Though I feel honored, I think I’m going to have to pass. I think the last person I farted on was my younger brother back in my teenage years. He tried to get me back, but never did. Older brothers tend to abuse their siblings and I was no exception. But glad you are thinking of spiritual things.

  84. Poolman,

    Do you honestly think a government, the same one that can’t find their butt cheeks with both hands, can’t balance a budget, can’t create a simplified tax code, can’t keep their pants zipped, and can’t guard national secrets from a cross dressing private, could possibly create a conspiracy to murder 3,000 of its own citizens and keep it perfectly secret?

    You’re not really that screwed up, are you?

  85. I like John Lennon’s song and the Beatles’ music, but John was a hyprocrite who created a mental world for others, not himself. It is a wonderful world but it violates the laws of human nature.

    I remember the Peace and Love era. Some of those folks threw tomatoes at returning veterans, and a few lapsed into the Ayres style of terrorism. Drugs burned out others. They did give us Woodstock.

    Here is another musical reference. A writer called Obama the Light Master. Manfred Man sang “Blinded by the Light. Many liberals were blinded by Obama’s light, as Lennon was by his own words.

  86. “John was a hypocrite”

    I think that’s over simplistic. I don’t view Lennon as a hero. For much of his life he was quite the scumbag. But I do believe he was a seeker. I do believe he struggled to be wise. I do believe he was a complicated man who lived much of his life in public.

    Hypocrite doesn’t do him complete justice.

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