The TSA Ruckus — Enough Already

A Transportation Security Administration (TSA) agent watches a traveller as she undergoes a millimeter wave scan before boarding her flight at Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport in Washington November 24, 2010. Millions of Americans took to the skies on Wednesday for the start of the Thanksgiving holiday amid protests by some travellers about heightened , more invasive security procedures. REUTERS/Jason Reed  (UNITED STATES - Tags: SOCIETY TRANSPORT)

America, famous for her need for 24/7 stimulation, loves a manufactured controversy. We can now add to the list of controversies the newly installed body scanners in many of our nation’s airports and the accompanying pat-down procedure for those who opt out of being scanned. With 10% unemployment, two wars raging and a newly belligerent North Korea, it is hard to believe we have any bandwidth left to fuss about “messing with my junk.” Maybe it’s time for some common sense:

  1. In the immediate aftermath of 9/11, we would all have willingly lined up stark naked at the airport to protect ourselves. Amazing what poor long-term memory does to a nation.
  2. There is only one way to take a picture of a naked body and that is to … take a picture of a naked body. No device has been invented that will show your truly naked body on film when you are wearing clothes when the picture is taken. The image rendered by the new devices, based on what I have seen by surfing the web, is your body in the form of a white Thanksgiving Day parade float … or perhaps the Pillsbury Doughboy. Yes, it captures the contours of your body but it looks like a blow-up doll. No skin color, no texture, nothing remotely human and certainly nothing remotely erotic (unless you are REALLY kinky and masturbate to Saturday morning cartoons). People need to get a grip.
  3. OK, you really don’t want someone looking at a white silhouette image of your fat behind. So you opt for the pat-down. Again, unless the TSA employee physically hurts you, what is the big deal? The real problem here (and with the scanner) is America’s extremely messed up mentality about our bodies and sexuality in general. We are the most repressed bunch of closet porno watchers on the planet. I seriously doubt the French would bat an eye at these procedures.
  4. There have been abuses. So what? A man was humiliated when his urostomy bag was broken during an aggressive pat-down. A woman was asked to remove her prosthetic breast. These are unfortunate exceptions involving stupid TSA employees. If we stopped every procedure in this country based on isolated examples of stupidity, we’d have no procedures at all.
  5. The procedure violates your rights. I really love this one because I get to toss this one in the face of my nutty “constitutional scholar”-cum-tea party fanatics. Please tell me where in the Constitution it says you have a right to travel by air? Guess what. Air travel is a privilege, not a right. If you don’t want to get patted down, take a bus, train or drive your car. It’s really very simple.
  6. Shouldn’t we do everything we can to make it difficult for a dangerous nutjob to board a plane? Do these procedures really rise to the level of the inconvenience of the precaution overshadowing the consequences of a security lapse? I don’t think so.

This is what will happen and I can predict it with 100% certainty. If Obama edicts that the new scanners be stopped and the pat-downs be “softened” and we are then attacked again, Obama will be blamed for going soft on security.

So my friends, as you travel this holiday season, my suggestion is that you view the scanner as a stop in front of a fun-house mirror and the pat-down as an overly robust  greeting from your friendly airport security personnel.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

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343 thoughts on “The TSA Ruckus — Enough Already

  1. Just think, Rutherford. Once the terrorists perfect the keester-bomb you’ll be able to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. TSA can just give you your prostate exam.

  2. Yeah. Somehow I don’t see this current cock sucking by Rutherford of the TSA going down a couple years ago. I saw Ellan on TV defending the TSA. Partisan politics crack me up.

  3. If you don’t want to get patted down, take a bus, train or drive your car. It’s really very simple.

    Until the government says it isn’t. But that would never happen…

    Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano says terrorists will continue to look for U.S. vulnerabilities, making tighter security standards necessary.

    “[Terrorists] are going to continue to probe the system and try to find a way through,” Napolitano said in an interview that aired Monday night on “Charlie Rose.”

    “I think the tighter we get on aviation, we have to also be thinking now about going on to mass transit or to trains or maritime. So, what do we need to be doing to strengthen our protections there?”

    -Emphasis added

    http://www.infiniteunknown.net/2010/11/24/homeland-security-secretary-janet-napolitano-proposes-full-body-scanners-for-trains-boats-metro/

  4. Guess what. Air travel is a privilege, not a right.

    Oh shit! Someone better hurry up and tell Congress! Can you believe those assholes? Not checking with Rutherford before they make those pesky laws.

    (c) General Safety Considerations.— In carrying out subpart III of this part and those provisions of subpart IV applicable in carrying out subpart III, the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration shall consider the following matters:
    (1) the requirements of national defense and commercial and general aviation.
    (2) the public right of freedom of transit through the navigable airspace.

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode49/usc_sec_49_00040101—-000-.html

  5. Mmmm, ok.

    1) I’d say new evidence of nuclear development plus attacking South Korea qualifies as newly belligerent. No implication intended that they weren’t belligerent before. Just a new flash of belligerence lately.

    2) No cock sucking going on at all. I guess the mistake we made on this one was not calling the devices “patriot scanners” and the pat-downs “patriot pats”, since the “Patriot Act” didn’t seem to bother you guys too much back in the day.

    3) I commend you guys on not yet saying that the scanners are the kinky manifestation of a perverted dyke’s dreams (e.g. Napolitano). You guys are getting soft. 😉

    4) section c of the subpart IV, following the subpart III seems to enunciate a right not specified in the Constitution. So, c’mon BiW Madison, where’s your outrage?

    5) Seems to me apathy was a large contributor to our getting hit on 9/11 in the first place …. apathy by Clinton and Bush, just so you know I’m bipartisan about apathy.

    Huck’s onto something. Who needs Obamacare if I can get a free prostate exam at the airport? 😉

  6. 4) section c of the subpart IV, following the subpart III seems to enunciate a right not specified in the Constitution. So, c’mon BiW Madison, where’s your outrage?

    I’m sorry, I missed the part where the states, or individuals claimed jurisdiction over air travel. Perhaps you can point them out to me? Or maybe you can admit that you were wrong, and that there is a right to air travel?

  7. I don’t know what scanning machines Rutherford has been looking at, but they ain’t the same ones that the pilot suing the TSA has seen.

    Because concerning those particular scans (1) you can tell if a man is circumcised, you can tell if a woman is menstruating, you can actually see sweat on the back.

    So it would appear to me that we need a hell of a lot more clarification about what these perverts at the TSA are viewing before I just simply say, “Oh, this is just an inconvenience.”

    And if these machines are just simple scattergrams, I would like to know how in the hell it’s able to determine something that isn’t metallic – like plastic explosives.

  8. They can see if you’re menstruating?
    R, the jig is up.

    Seriously, tha’t’s effed up. I don’t need a damn scanner to tell me when that’s happening. . . just sayin’.

  9. 2.There is only one way to take a picture of a naked body and that is to … take a picture of a naked body. No device has been invented that will show your truly naked body on film when you are wearing clothes when the picture is taken. The image rendered by the new devices, based on what I have seen by surfing the web, is your body in the form of a white Thanksgiving Day parade float … or perhaps the Pillsbury Doughboy. Yes, it captures the contours of your body but it looks like a blow-up doll. No skin color, no texture, nothing remotely human and certainly nothing remotely erotic (unless you are REALLY kinky and masturbate to Saturday morning cartoons). People need to get a grip.

    “Get a grip”… and with scans like these, everyone knows exactly WHERE, too.

    http://epic.org/privacy/body_scanners/body_scanner_faq.html

  10. 6.Shouldn’t we do everything we can to make it difficult for a dangerous nutjob to board a plane? Do these procedures really rise to the level of the inconvenience of the precaution overshadowing the consequences of a security lapse? I don’t think so.

    You betcha. We’re soooooooo much safer with federal employees oogling our goodies, or getting to fondle them!

    PHOENIX – A passenger aboard a Southwest Airlines flight found a full ammunition clip from a law enforcement officer’s service weapon during a flight Tuesday from Burbank, Calif., to Phoenix, an airline spokesman said.

    However, the owner of the clip remained a mystery.

    TSA Administrator John Pistole said he was confident the clip didn’t belong to a federal air marshal. He wouldn’t speculate about who might have brought the clip onto the aircraft.

    Passengers weren’t in danger because nobody else on the plane had a gun that could use the bullets, Pistole added.

    The passenger who found the ammunition handed it to the flight crew after finding it in flight, Southwest Airlines spokesman Paul Flaningan said.

    The plane landed safely in Phoenix, and passengers on Flight 1297 were taken off and rescreened. The plane was also searched and no weapons were found.

    The passenger who found the clip was met and questioned by TSA and Phoenix police at Sky Harbor International Airport.

    The clip apparently was dropped accidentally by a licensed law enforcement officer who declared he had the clip, Flaningan said. The law enforcement officer was on a previous flight.

    http://www.frugal-cafe.com/public_html/frugal-blog/frugal-cafe-blogzone/2010/11/24/whos-asleep-at-the-tsa-helm-full-ammo-clip-found-on-flight-from-burbank-to-phoenix-tsa-clueless-who-brought-clip-on-plane-video/

    Rutherford, it’s theatre, and an impermissably intrusive one, at that.

  11. And what is this nonsense about seeing women menstruate? I’m not an expert on women feminine products but I have to assume what you mean is that either the sanitary napkin shows up on the film or the pull-string of the tampon shows up. Since the scan does not penetrate skin, you can’t see an actual tampon.

    Regardless, do you really think security personnel are getting jollies looking at tampon strings?

    Look boys … eliminate the screening. But when the next plane blows up, I don’t want to hear squat from you about the Obama administration removing the final safety barrier from airports.

  12. There is a very strange dichotomy going on at MSNBC regarding the TSA issue. Chris Matthews is painting this as conservative politics, ignoring the fact that that bastion of liberal defense, the ACLU is against the machines. Then later in the evening we’ve got Keith (a lib if there ever was one) suggesting the security procedure goes too far. That pretty much belies the notion that opposition to the machines is partisan.

    I do have to wonder on this one, what is Chris Matthews smoking?

  13. Rutherford! Pay Attention!

    This is theatre. It would not stop the panty-bomber. It will not stop the jhadi sporting the Fruit of Kaboom! Suppository™.

    It does nothing to inspect the other people who have access to the plane, and in fact, does not search every passenger this way. These searches are supposedly random, so for every person screened this way, NINE others are not. That isn’t really secure.

    Muslim women in head gear get to pat their own headgear down.

    The TSA LIED to the public when they claimed the images couldn’t be saved. When that lie was exposed, they doubled down and told us they couldn’t be transferred, which is also untrue. And still you trust them.

    But I guess we have every reason to thank them for keeping us safe from bladder cancer survivor’s urine bags, and breast cancer survivor’s prostesis, right?

    Oh, and from those killer little autistic boys, too.

    Watch the damn video, Rutherford. How many fucking rent-a-cops does it fucking take to terrorize little autistic boy? I count 4 standing around him at one point. As a parent to two autistic boys, I can tell you that first of all, that kid is terrified. And for what? And the father? Godlike restraint. One of them feeling up my boys, especially the little one? He’d have to wear orthopeadic gloves for the rest of his damn life.

    We couldn’t treat most criminals this way, and you continue to suggest that it is not a big deal? I hope it never comes to a TSA employee getting a little too familiar with your wife or daughter to make you really screw your head on the right way and see this for what it is.

  14. Look boys … eliminate the screening. But when the next plane blows up, I don’t want to hear squat from you about the Obama administration removing the final safety barrier from airports.

    While I know not every airport does this the same way, here in Seattle, you’ll go halfway through the airport before going through the TSA checkpoint. You and every other traveller flying through that airline’s gates. Meaning that you are clustered up by the hundreds to get through. It doesn’t take a genius to look around and say “Fuck the airplane. If a jhadi and his buddies want to kill travellers, all they have to do is come up behind all these people and open fire. Or work their way through the rat maze laine until they are in the middle, and detonate themselves. And your preferred oogle and grope wouldn’t have done shit to stop it.

  15. Here Rutherford, you’ll want to obtain a copy of this to explain to your daughter…

    And you keep ignoring a very important point. The underwear bomber was flying into the U.S…pat all you want, but it would not have stopped butthead or the shoe bomber…

  16. BiW, the video gives no evidence that the kid is terrified. That does not justify strip searching the kid. As I have acknowledged, this procedure in the wrong (and stupid) hands is going to create problems.

    What is the alternative? What effective measures can we take that are not “theater”? Lots of folks are saying let’s do it like Israel does it. If I’m not mistaken, Israel has six airports in the entire damn country. How do we use their methods on a United States scale?

  17. Rutherford. You have access to a search engine. Educate yourself.

    The accounts I read said that Dad actually took his shirt off to facilitate the process, because his son wasn’t exactly cooperative.

    They also say that yes, the kid was terrified, which was why he wasn’t making it easy for the screener to do the pat down. Which is not a shock to any parent of an autistic child. As anyone of us can tell you, these kids do not react well to having people they don’t know touching them, and to have a bunch of strangers standing around staring down at them when it is going on doesn’t help, either.

  18. What is the alternative? What effective measures can we take that are not “theater”? Lots of folks are saying let’s do it like Israel does it. If I’m not mistaken, Israel has six airports in the entire damn country. How do we use their methods on a United States scale?

    Not violating traveller’s Constitutional rights with a procedure that doesn’t make anyone any safer? That would be a great start.

    Then there is the little matter of tossing political correctness out the window, and actually, um, I don’t know, maybe profiling? If you were to look at every hijacking and or destruction of commercial aircraft in the last ten years, I’m pretty sure that you will find a common denominator. And I don’t mean small children, Granny from North Dakota, or the frequent flying businessman.

  19. And in case this got past anyone in the day-before-Thanksgiving document dump…

    The United States Commission on Civil Rights released its report today. It has words like “lack of cooperation” from the DoJ, and highly suggest there was a cover-up that may have gone all the way to the top.

    And Darryl Issa hasn’t even got his hands into this yet…

    Happy Thanksgiving and pass the popcorn!

  20. Oddly, it was Black = White who has hit on the central point – @ #21:

    If a jhadi and his buddies want to kill travellers, all they have to do is come up behind all these people and open fire. Or work their way through the rat maze laine until they are in the middle, and detonate themselves.

    But why would they limit themselves to airports? Why not detonate wherever crowds of people are packed together – like sporting events, or the Thanksgiving Day parades?

    And then Tex actually made a good point at #22:

    The underwear bomber was flying into the U.S…pat all you want, but it would not have stopped butthead or the shoe bomber…

    Right! And even with old-style metal detectors and allowing big bottles of liquid on the plane, there has not been even one case of attempted terrorism since 9/11 on a flight originating in America. Not one!

    The thing about TSA Security Theater is that it only addresses earlier tactics. As airline security has become more and more annoying, has it really made us safer? How much safer? Like I asked the other day, how much hassle are you willing to endure to be 99.98% safe instead of 99.96% safe? Doesn’t everyone have a point of diminishing returns, where you would rather live your life normally than go to extremes to eliminate all risk? I know that I do, and that there are trips that my wife and I just don’t bother to take because of the security hassle involved. If we didn’t have grandkids 1,500 miles away I doubt that we would fly at all. It’s much easier to drive.

  21. Take off my jacket. Kick off my shoes. Put my shoes in the bin. Take off my belt. Empty my pockets into my shoes, so I can keep the stuff together. Take the laptop out of the bag – one bin for the computer, another for the case. That’s three bins, just for me. It’s a bit easier for women because all their stuff is in a purse, not loose in pockets. Then get packed and dressed again. It’s all so silly.

    There are only two changes in airline security that have made flying safer to any significant degree. One is hardening the cockpit door so that no one can fly the planes into buildings like the 9/11 bunch did. The other is inspecting checked luggage. The former seems so obvious now, I can’t believe no one thought to do it before 9/11. The latter was a lesson that could have been learned from Locherbie.

    But the hardest attack to prevent, as we see over and over, is the suicide bomber. I doubt that anyone can ever be 100% safe from someone willing to commit suicide to inflict mindless terror. And no solution has been found anywhere that this tactic is used. The wonder is that anyone gets convinced that killing innocent people with a suicide bomb is an act that furthers any imaginable cause.

  22. Have Muslim terrorists already achieved their objective in America? I think that they have.

    What goal does a terrorist hope to achieve? Making people afraid, so that they will react out of fear rather than out of principle and reason. Look at what 9/11 has done to America. It led us to attack a nation that did not attack us; to establish offshore prisons, some of them secret; to justify detention without trial; to hand over “detainees” to be tortured by our proxies; to torture “detainees” ourselves (and destroy evidence of the torture); to engage in mass unconstitutional eavesdropping on our own citizens; and to pass a cynically-named “patriot” act, a goody-bag that fulfilled the wet dreams of every control freak in federal law enforcement who ever wished for a power that he didn’t have.

    The public response? For the most part, it was to parrot our so-called leaders: “Well – we’re at war, you know….”

    I find just a bit of encouragement in the whole flap over the latest comically intrusive Security Theater by the TSA. This is the first murmuring of citizen pushback against America’s shit-our-pants response to 9/11. May it be just the beginning of a serious movement.

    A little safer, or the Bill of Rights? It’s not a false choice.

  23. I think that a lot of Americans are already choosing convenience over safety when it comes to their travel. Even in this age of terrorists under every bed, flying is still safer statistically than driving. But airline travel has never recovered the volume it had pre-9/11. Why?

    My wife and I have made that choice many times. Driving is more dangerous than flying, but safe enough for us. Flying often isn’t worth the hassle of Security Theater.

  24. I was contemplating your howling last night about how “I don’t want to hear squat from you about the Obama administration removing the final safety barrier from airports.”

    Why not? 😈

    For eight years, I heard you pinkos and hags squawk with completely unreasonable expectations and outrageous charges used as political capital – most notably Iraq and New Orleans. And so I think it unfair of you to expect acquiescence from your political opponents. Why should we not hold Barack Hussein Obama to the same lofty standards you held George Bush and Dick Cheney?

    ————-

    No, to show my “loving” Christian demeanor and demonstrable sense of “devout” fairness (cough cough) with President Obama, I won’ t hold Obama to those unattainable standards you scumbags set for George Bush. I’m all for safety, but not at the cost of invasion of privacy or stepping on basic liberties – privates are your ‘privates’. If I thought the search was effective, I might give consideration, but ask yourself, “How many terrorists have we stopped at the gate the last couple of years?” Anybody think of one?

    I posted all this “R” to say this.

    Don’t you find it a little more than ironic that for eight years your party brutalized George Bush for a multitude of “crimes against humanity”, only to now find your hero receiving the same treatment for the same basic issues, and probably being even more ineffective than George Bush?

    What goes around, comes around? 😉

    Hopefully, you may have learned a personal lesson the last two years, that being:

    It’s a whole lot harder to perform than to simply criticize and make baseless charges. Rank propaganda is a lot harder to sell when you’re running the joint.

    ——–

    “R”, you’re a woefully confused scholar, talented writer, potato head, and a gentleman. More than that, for all of your political craziness, you’ve become a pretty good friend too.

    Blessed Thanksgiving to you and your family. Let’s keep Jim Dougan’s family in our thoughts and prayers. This will be a rough day for them.

    May God keep them and hold them in the palm of his hand.

  25. “But why would they limit themselves to airports? Why not detonate wherever crowds of people are packed together – like sporting events, or the Thanksgiving Day parades?”

    True. But crippling air travel generally will have an enourmous effect — one beyond the individual flight itself. It’s a great target because it requires so little to have such widespread consequences. That’s why buildings housing financial insitituions (e.g. WTC) are also prime targets. Parades and sporting events (Black Sunday) would be considerably more difficult to attack because the scale would require something difficult to conceal — even chemical, biological or nuclear. Shooting through a crowded airport could be easily prevented by scanning on the way in and only permitting passengers their (like I understand is the norm in most middle eastern countries).

    I’ve wondered why we haven’t been struck with a massive coordinated anthrax/letter-bomb attack on random indviduals and businesses. Perhaps the toner cartridges intended to be a test run for something that would the impact I’m referring to. Crippling mail and package delover would be devastating to our economy.

    If all of this enhanced TSA screening is really as ineffective at every level as you guys indicate, I do feel differently about the intrusion which I think must be balanced against the deterrent. Is it possible that we haven’t identified actual plans/threats that the current system is actually quashing? If so, would it change anybody’s minds as to the propriety of it all?

  26. Never did I dream a day when Graychin and I would be fighting both the left and right politicians in unison.

    What’s even wilder is we are reaching the same conclusions for the same reasons.

    Apocalypse must be upon us.

  27. I have educated myself on what is going down at the airports. I had no idea that people were being nilly willy picked to go through those machines. The pat downs themselves are even more intense then I thought. This is total bull shit and my first response to the pat downs embarrasses me. I should shut the fuck up when I don’t really know what I’m talking about.

    I know some here defy history and perspective and feel America is not exceptional.

    This great nation lead the world on a path to freedom.

    No nation or empire that has been endowed with such mighty military power has ever behaved like we do. No nation as large and diverse has ever been so free. Nothing compares to you America. Thank God for America. A billion people around the world are free because of you. That is exceptional.

  28. “Never did I dream a day when Graychin and I would be fighting both the left and right politicians in unison.”

    That’s the surest signal something’s wrong. He’s just fuckin’ with ya. Just like R is fuckin’ with me.

    Well put DR. I’m beginning to feel like you about the TSA situation.

    Looking forward to opening a bottle of Zaya and lighting up an Esplendido to celebrate and give thanks for this truly exceptional country and all that God has given us. (yes, I’m aware the irony — Zaya comes from Trinidad and Explendidos come from Cuba — our turkey is domestic, but do detect a slght accent).

    Cheers guys!

  29. Tex, thank you for thinking of Jim. It must be a hard day for the Dougan family indeed. We all have at least one thing to be thankful for … living to see another day.

    Time for family folks …. have a good one.

  30. Tex is getting soft. He used to argue with everything I said, just because…. well, just because.

    He mocked me when I said I was foremost a pragmatist, not an ideologue like him. But my attitude toward Security
    Theater is based entirely on pragmatism. What the hell is it all for?

  31. At least you guys are paying attention to me this morning instead of arguing with stuff that I didn’t say and don’t believe.

    Tiger @37: Maybe, just maybe, we haven’t been attacked by terrorists in all the ways you imagine is that their determination to inflict terror upon us is much less than our paranoia about terrorism.

    Nine years later, we can say that the 9/11 attacks were a spectacular success – because, out of fear, we allowed them to change our behavior permanently. And it only gets worse.

    Just imagine what four suicide bombers with explosive belts under their coats could accomplish at four major college football games. NBA basketball. Major league baseball.

  32. Nine years later, we can say that the 9/11 attacks were a spectacular success – because, out of fear, we allowed them to change our behavior permanently. And it only gets worse.

    A complaint I have made before. Many times.

    So I’ll just settle in with the idea that you agree with me, and not the other way around.

  33. “But why would they limit themselves to airports? Why not detonate wherever crowds of people are packed together – like sporting events, or the Thanksgiving Day parades?”

    Because spreading terror is not their ultimate goal. Getting us to spend loads of money and eventually financially breaking us is.

  34. R—re: comment #19..unlikely that any female combatants…er, I mean, commenters, will wander in and stay.
    I am almost amused at the kind of machinations people have to go through to argue that you’re wrong. Such as the “right” to air travel.
    I will say this…I seriously understand the reluctance of people to be scanned. Modesty is a thing I remember. But being scanned is way more protective of modesty than pat-downs, and it appears that most people understand that. The “boycott” (started by a guy who was driving instead of flying…rofl) has been a non-starter.
    But back to modesty…I have less, because I had breast cancer and it eventually seemed like everyone on the planet got to see me naked from the waist up. That was really hard for me..but eventually I got over it. And this was my real, actual, naked body. A sort of cartoon version of my naked body on a scanner would have been a piece of cake.
    It slays me that a man could tell me what I should feel about that.

  35. I am almost amused at the kind of machinations people have to go through to argue that you’re wrong. Such as the “right” to air travel.

    Tell it Congress, sweetie. I didn’t write the law.

    It slays me that a man could tell me what I should feel about that.

    I don’t recall ANYONE telling you how you should feel about that. But, there is a reason why they are called “privates”, and it isn’t because a DHS rent-a-cop can have themselves a look in a separate room, retain the image, perhaps share it with friends, all so you can feel(not be) safer.

    You don’t care who’s checking you out? Excellent. Then you have a wonderful and perhaps lucrative career in exhibitionism to look forward to, but it isn’t anyone’s business by my own and my wife’s if I am average, hung like a horse, or sporting an OMG with a third nipple on my chest, and it certainly isn’t the Government’s. If they want to know that badly, they can actually articulate probable cause, or they can go to a judge and get a damn warrant. That’s how it works.

  36. “…spreading terror is not their ultimate goal. Getting us to spend loads of money and eventually financially breaking us is.”

    That’s actually a great point. If it’s true, then have we been playing into their strategy for the past nine years, or what?

    A misadventure in Afghanistan helped to sink the Soviet Union. Do you think we might learn anything from their hard lesson?

    Probably not.

  37. “So I’ll just settle in with the idea that you agree with me, and not the other way around.”

    Gotta be one of the most bloated egos I have ever encountered.

    Then I read your comment at #49 and realize that even though I might actually agree with YOU about something on rare occasions, you remain a visitor from a distant planet unknown to the vast majority of civilized, 21st Century Americans, but possibly familiar to human societies that treat their females like cattle chattel. A planet that upon which what passes for intelligent life is nearly extinct.

    Happy Thanksgiving to you and your enormous dick – “sweetie.” Or is it that you ARE the enormous dick?

  38. BiW…no, I do not care who is “checking me out” if it keeps me safe on a plane, nor do the majority of Americans, male or female. It’s a tempest in a teapot. I note you did not address what I said about being exposed because of having breast cancer…my guess is that that was too real and not covered in the Constitution. Sweetie.

  39. “That’s actually a great point. If it’s true, then have we been playing into their strategy for the past nine years, or what?”

    Yes. The more we spend to defeat al Qaeda the more we play into its strategy. Likewise, the less we spend on defeating al Qaeda the more we play into its strategy.

    “A misadventure in Afghanistan helped to sink the Soviet Union. Do you think we might learn anything from their hard lesson?”

    If we get financially broken it would not be because of our overseas response to al Qaeda, it would be because of our domestic response to al Qaeda. The troops will come home eventually, but the need for national security never goes away.

  40. I see Fake has joined the board after getting over having her rather rotund ass handed to her three weeks ago.

    Fake reminds me much of radical Islamists. She is both aggressor and victim – usually in one post.

  41. Graychin, I still think you’re an ideologue and far from practical, but occasionally you show signs of rationality. This one I feel you definitely get right.

    However, your scolding of BIC on bloated ego was too much to let pass. You’re kidding all of us, right?

    Bronze stars shoved in basement, lumberjack, athlete, power broker, self-made rich man, pragmatic leader, subject matter expert, philanthropist?

    😆 😆 😆

    I think you let my agreement go to your head.

  42. Being exposed because of breast cancer you believe is the ultimate in humiliation? Then you must never have had a baby because a bunch of folks would be gazing at your uterus, including at least one playing catcher.

    I think I was staring at my wife’s diaphragm when I helped deliver our first child upon delivery – right down there squatted with the latex gloves minus the catcher’s mitt. 🙂

    And the only thought that was going through my head watching my daughter’s head crown, besides how completely helpless and ignorant I was, happened to be “And we guys think were making a dent in these things?

  43. Greychin is bar none one of the biggest internet braggers I have ever seen. Not a chink of his armor gets exposed. Not even one phrase that even indirectly hints at imperfection. No humanity. That is why it is so hard to like the guy online.

    Look, does the government know of some threat we don’t? Who knows. But anyone saying those screenings are no big deal simply has no sense of privacy to begin with.

    I’m still confused. Does everybody walk through them?

  44. BiW…no, I do not care who is “checking me out” if it keeps me safe on a plane, nor do the majority of Americans, male or female. It’s a tempest in a teapot. I note you did not address what I said about being exposed because of having breast cancer…my guess is that that was too real and not covered in the Constitution. Sweetie.

    You need to re-read the comment. It isn’t anyone’s business. The comment makes no claim other than to state that it is no one’s business but my own…no matter how much the TSA would like me to think otherwise.

    As for making you safer on a plane, you need to re-read the other comments in this thread.

    Feeling up six-year old autistic boys makes you safer on a plane? Really? Spilling urine all over a bladder cancer survivor makes you safer on a plane? Really? Scans that wouldn’t have caught the panty bomber makes you safer on a plane? Scans that wouldn’t catch a bomber with the bomb in his ass make you safer on a plane? Really? “Enhanced” screening that is supposedly random and doesn’t check EVERY passenger makes you safer on a plane? Really? Allowing muslim women to pat their own headgear down and allow their hands to be tested for explosive residue makes you safer on a plane? Really?

    You might have a wisp of an argument if ANY of these actually made you safer, but they don’t.

  45. Gotta be one of the most bloated egos I have ever encountered.

    After having to endure “The Law According to Greychin” and all the associated self-important pontifications of one of the biggest ignoramuses I have ever had the displeasure to encounter, the irony of that statement damn near killed me.

    Then I read your comment at #49 and realize that even though I might actually agree with YOU about something on rare occasions, you remain a visitor from a distant planet unknown to the vast majority of civilized, 21st Century Americans, but possibly familiar to human societies that treat their females like cattle chattel. A planet that upon which what passes for intelligent life is nearly extinct.

    Perhaps if she didn’t comment like a dumb blond, I wouldn’t have treated her like one. Complaining about me treating a woman like cattle/chattel, when I vehemently oppose government activity that would deign to treat us ALL like cattle…and criminals to boot. You know better than that, even if YOUR enourmous ego would never allow you to admit it.

    Happy Thanksgiving, Chin. You better have an extra helping of the turkey. Your ego is still hungry….and you are what you eat.
    Happy Thanksgiving to you and your enormous dick – “sweetie.” Or is it that you ARE the enormous dick?

    As I pointed out in the prior comment, you need to work on your reading comprehension. But then, that’s been the case for a while.

  46. I note you did not address what I said about being exposed because of having breast cancer…my guess is that that was too real and not covered in the Constitution. Sweetie.

    Perhaps you should note that not all breast cancer survivors feel as immodest as you claim to about the process.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40278427/ns/travel-news

    But hey, since you had to let medical professionals “check you out” as part of the process treating your cancer, a process you CONSENTED to, btw, and now don’t care who checks you out, any one who doesn’t share your immodesty is silly, and not among “the majority of Americans” (you might want to tell the to the LA Times, btw, their survey doesn’t agree with your mighty declaration).

    If you want to be treated like a sheep or other domesticated animal, far be it from anyone to tell you otherwise, but for you to belittle those who are not numbers, who will not be stamped, filed, indexed, and organized is really too much.

    And the making you safer? Tell this guy that:

    http://noblasters.com/post/1650102322/my-tsa-encounter

  47. The more we spend to defeat al Qaeda the more we play into its strategy. Likewise, the less we spend on defeating al Qaeda the more we play into its strategy.

    That sounds defeatist and hopeless. But I sort of agree – either extreme is the wrong way to respond. The way to proceed is to take a middle path – in which we take reasonable precautions to protect ourselves but avoid shitting our pants and reacting as the Bush Administration did to 9/11. See my comment @ # 34.

  48. Dag, edict as a verb sounded completely natural to me but I admittedly cannot document it as such after surfing. Can only find it as a noun. Oh well BiW you won’t often find me in grammar jail so enjoy the moment. 🙂

    I hope everyone enjoyed their Thanksgiving in between getting shots in online. Tex, were you able to hook back up with family today? I hope so.

    Until tomorrow, gobble gobble.

  49. Dag, edict as a verb sounded completely natural to me but I admittedly cannot document it as such after surfing. Can only find it as a noun. Oh well BiW you won’t often find me in grammar jail so enjoy the moment.

    Actually, I was kind of digging it, but I went through 5 dictionaries, and couldn’t find it as a verb, so I thought I’d ask.

  50. So Graychin, all knowing.

    Exactly how would you have reacted differently after 9/11, and tell me exactly what Hussein Obama has done more effectively fighting terrorism. Because this statement is complete horseshit:

    to engage in mass unconstitutional eavesdropping on our own citizens;

    Tell me exactly which one of your personal liberties have been infringed upon because of the Patriot Act.

    And if you tell me the Iraq War, I’m going to call bullshit because we killed a hell of a lot more Al Qaeda there.

  51. “That sounds defeatist and hopeless”

    It wasn’t really meant to sound defeatist or hopeless as much as it was meant to say that we may as well do something because doing nothing is just as bad.

    “The way to proceed is to take a middle path – in which we take reasonable precautions to protect ourselves but avoid shitting our pants and reacting as the Bush Administration did to 9/11.”

    See Graychin, you are back to aiming at Bush again. Yeah, he may have not had the best response to 9/11 and terrorism. But, as I have reminded you continuously, Bush is not the president anymore.

    What has Obama done to change that response? We still have warrantless wire-tapping. The government can still read our emails. We still have Gitmo and the CIA Black Sites. And now we are getting full-body scans of the type that only used to be fantasized about by kids ordering x-ray glasses out of comic books. The only change he has brought to the party is in the way we get information from the guys we pick up. And that is arguable as to how safe that makes America.

    The point is, we are still shitting our pants. Barack Obama included.

    Yet none of that makes it into your argument. It’s all about Bush….

    Like you tell me…move on.

    Regarding your #134, you still are not looking at it with the proper perspective.

    “Have Muslim terrorists already achieved their objective in America? I think that they have.”

    Again, the goal is not to spread terror or even to get us to give up our freedoms for safety. The goal is to get us to spend money. But just because that is their goal doesn’t mean we don’t spend money to fight them. That is what I am trying to get across.

    These guys want us gone because we prop up Middle East governments who they hate and who are getting in the way of them restoring the caliphate. Their objective in America won’t be achieved until we either cease that support or cease to exist.

  52. We live in a country where children are no longer permitted to play tag with other children on a playground, because it encourages unwanted touching, but those same children may receive a full pat-down from a stranger in an airport.

  53. We live in a nation where a “right to privacy” is legal justification for infanticide, but we are expected to let a government employee check out a RapeScan image of our body or grope us if they deem it necessary in order to complete our contract with a private carrier.

    Murder is ok if an “act of privacy”, but your junk is a rent-a-cop’s business. No. No inconsistency there.

  54. “Exactly how would you have reacted differently after 9/11…”

    I would not have proposed the “patriot” act. I would not have invaded Iraq and neglected the effort to find Osama in Afghanistan. I would not have created the Department of Homeland Security, which is less effective than the previous organization of effort. I would not have made “bring it on” and “with us or against us” our national policy. I would have built on the international goodwill that was there for us after 9/11 instead of pissing it away. I would not have developed and authorized policies of detention without trial or even charges, and of torture. Is that enough to give you an idea.

    ” and tell me exactly what Hussein Obama has done more effectively fighting terrorism.” (That “Hussein” stuff is a big deal to you, isn’t it? Why?)

    Not much. At least torture and extraordinary rendition are no longer authorized directly by the president. The Obama Administration is trying some “detainees” in civilian courts, which is a step in the right direction, and where prosecution success has been greater than in the military kangaroo courts.

    “Tell me exactly which one of your personal liberties have been infringed upon because of the Patriot Act.”

    None. Should I only care about government abuse of power when it affects me personally? Is that your attitude toward government abuse of power?

    “And if you tell me the Iraq War, I’m going to call bullshit because we killed a hell of a lot more Al Qaeda there.”

    No – I am calling bullshit on you. There was NO al Qaeda in Iraq until after we invaded Iraq. Saddam hated them. The American military attracts Al Qaeda like shit attracts flies. American occupation of predominantly Muslim countries is the primary motivator and recruiting tool for Al Qaeda.

  55. “See Graychin, you are back to aiming at Bush again. Yeah, he may have not had the best response to 9/11 and terrorism. But, as I have reminded you continuously, Bush is not the president anymore. What has Obama done to change that response? “

    Not nearly enough. But who started us down this road?

    I am highly critical of Obama’s handling of war and terrorism, and of the “patriot” act and all those other things. PLEASE ABSORB AND REMEMBER THAT STATEMENT. OK? That “hopey changey stuff” isn’t working out for me because there isn’t near enough change and not enough hope to suit me. My criticism of Obama is that he is too much like Bush, the worst US president of all time. American response to the threat of terrorism will never be a mess that Obama created. That honor belongs to Bush, forever and ever.

    “The point is, we are still shitting our pants. Barack Obama included.”

    AGREED! CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?

    “These guys want us gone because we prop up Middle East governments who they hate and who are getting in the way of them restoring the caliphate. Their objective in America won’t be achieved until we either cease that support or cease to exist.”

    When we cease to exist, the support ceases also. They don’t “hate us for our freedoms.” What fucking moron came up with that idea? Like I said, our military presence where Muslims predominate draws Al Qaeda like shit draws flies. There is something we could do about that.

    The other thing that engenders hate for America among Muslim extremists is our blind support for everything that Israel does. There isn’t much we can do about that.

  56. You accuse us of passing around “winger” email? You’re Cindy Sheehan with a small penis Graychin. Most of the time, you’re a joke and a gasbag.

    Like your Patriot Act infringing upon people’s rights, your bullshit of “listening in” on people’s conversations, your accusations of “torture”. I’m laughing at you, like I did when you bragged of your military exploits. Everyone here knew you were lying out the wazoo.

    I ask you again for the 100th time which you have refused to answer, “IF OUR PURPOSE WAS TO DESTROY AL-QAEDA, HOW WAS IT NOT BRILLIANT TO DRAW AL-QAEDA INTO IRAQ, KILL SADDAM IN THE PROCESS, AND DESTROY THOUSANDS OF AL-QAEDA BY THE BUTTLOAD???”

    That “goodwill” horseshit is so old and has been so exposed as a vicious, rank propaganda, you’re one of the few propeller heads still trying to utilize it. You and your lying pal Yeller Dawg. Besides their supposed “dissent is patriotic” line, that goodwill crap is the biggest crock of shit ever propagated by the Left. You bunch of stupid mother fuckers. If we were governed by the Left for too awfully long, we’d end up Liberia.

    Where’s that GOOD WILL Obama promised Graychin with his dialogue? With his leadership? By the power of his charisma and personality? Iran? 😆 North Korea? 😆 China? 😆 Russia? 😆

    Tell me more RAMBO of your bravery! I need the energy a belly laugh provides early in the morning.

  57. Tex:

    Invading Iraq to attract Al Qaeda and kill them there was the REAL strategery? WOW! That was brilliant! Who knew? I doubt that Bush did, but it makes a great cover story now, doesn’t it.

    Don’t be so stupid. You don’t strew garbage around to attract rats so you can shoot some of them. The net result is more rats. In the case of Iraq, the net result was more Al Qaeda.

    Does that answer your all-caps question?

  58. In response to #62. Either I made my point poorly, or you, BiW ,have fallen victim to one of your own favorite criticisms: a failure of reading comprehension. I brought up the breast cancer scenario to illustrate the fact that people who are uncomfortable with being scanned should not be dismissed as wackos. Modesty is real, and important, and there is a bit too little of it in our pop culture. I have less modesty than I used to have, and that is because, as you rightly point out, I CONSENTED to breast cancer treatment. I could have declined. I can also decline airport scans and pat-downs. I AM suggesting that those who are very uncomfortable need to make a decision to either get over it, or stop flying.
    I read the first article you linked and was interested to read that people with breast prostheses are routinely “caught” by the regular metal detectors? How is that even possible? As far as I know, breast prostheses do not have any metal components. I am suspicious of this claim.
    I still suggest that people with prostheses of any kind or metal in their bodies should by this time be accustomed to the fact that everything is a little different for them. (Duh.) And get over it.
    If I had a breast prosthesis, which I don’t, here is how I would deal with it: I wouldn’t wear it until I got to my destination. I’ve routinely been pulled out of line for wanding due to wearing bras with underwires, and I won’t wear them any more either when flying. The question about whether these scans and pat-downs work (“keep us safer”) is a different issue.
    I address only the “privacy” aspect. And if you believe you have much, you are living under a great illusion. Here again, I’m possibly a little less hysterical about it than some. I didn’t have a big problem with the Patriot Act. Still don’t.

  59. You still don’t get it Cindy “Graychin” Sheehan.

    Our being in Iraq was to boot a despot who continually thumbed his nose at 16 U.N. resolutions, including firing at our Air Force on a weekly basis. He was warned, he thumbed his nose, he hanged from the neck. Good for us.

    An unseen but huge benefit of our war on terror was that it created a nice battlefield to slaughter Al-Qaeda by the buttload on foreign soil. UBL called it the last battle of the Crusaders. You idiots would prefer to fight the good fight in south Manhattan.

    Let me guess your next baseless accusation. These people our military was brilliantly killing in Iraq were nothing but choir boys recruited into battle because of our presence? Right? Those “moderate” Muslims inflicted with Sudden Jihadi Syndrome? What a joke…

    American presence has been a rock’s throw from Mecca for at least 50 years.

    ——————

    Let me show what a real misuse power looks like Graychin directed from Mullah Obama and Imam Geithner. Straight out of the LBJ/Nixonian playbook. Try to wrap your facetious nature around this:

    http://www.zstreet.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=137&Itemid=40

  60. And now, to echo Graychin, let me address one of my favorite questions, which is, When will it be Obama’s fault instead of GWB’s fault? The answer is, the things that are GWB’s fault will always be his fault. Unless you are just completely bankrupt intellectually, you cannot blame Obama for anything he didn’t start, cause, or allow to happen. You want to “blame” him for health care reform? Go right ahead. That is not GWB’s “fault”.

  61. Fake,

    So we can blame the failure of Viet Nam on JFK then?

    Every President inherits a set of problems from previous administrations. Bush inherited a tech bubble and weakened military from Clinton. Reagan inherited a recession every bit as bad as this one from Carter. Carter inherited inflation and the damage of price controls from Ford and Nixon.

    It’s time for Hussein Obama to step up to the plate and start taking responsibility for his abysmal performance. Obama has been a failure in every capacity – both foreign and domestic. You libs love to make excuses to hide your frequent failures.

    But even you can’t hide behind the results of Nov 2nd.

    You, your President, your philosophy, your performance were judged harshly and found wanting and you were routed.

  62. Fake, fake, fake….

    I said rotund. Pleasingly plump, fat ass. 😆

    And I’ll answer that question for you. I call Graychin that all the time. An equal opportunity disser, as I despise all libs in one degree or another.

    You and Graychin rank at the bottom of the list, therefore you are well deserving of the most egregious humiliation.

  63. Mr. Legal Eagle:

    Murder is a crime as defined by law. The legal definition of murder does not include abortion.

    You, of all people, ought to know better.

    Mr. Insufferable Jackass:

    Murder is the killing of another human being with intent and depending on the degree, premeditation and malice aforethought.

    Mom deciding to kill the baby growing inside her is different how? (“And because Justice Blackmun said so” is not a satisfactory answer.)

  64. I can also decline airport scans and pat-downs. I AM suggesting that those who are very uncomfortable need to make a decision to either get over it, or stop flying.

    And I can withold my consent to being oogled or groped and still continue on my way because the 4th Amendment allows me that right. Unless or until the TSA can articulate probable cause that would allow them to search me without my consent, and or until they produce a lawful warrant, signed by a judge, that gives them the legal right to detain and search me, they have absolutely no authority to do so.

    My contract is with the airline. They have no legal right to make a waiver of my consitutional rights a condition of passage on their carrier, and the government has no authority to interfere with my private contract and impose their own conditions, absent some legal authority [LIKE A WARRANT] to do so.

    What is more noteworthy is the fact that they KNOW they do not have the legal authority to do this. If they did, the searches really would be manditory. By this I mean that if you refused consent, they would glove up and do it anyway, just like law enforcement does when they have probable cause or a warrant. Instead, they will go to extraordinary lengths to avoid searching passengers who have an inkling that they have rights and are willing to record events for later review, like the nice gentleman who cleared customs, and was erroneously told that he had to undergo the screening to return to the country through the airport, or those who refused, and were held until they were eventually allowed to leave, like Mr. Don’t Touch My Junk. It would also be the reason why they have caved to muslim objections, and not issued the $11,000.00 fines that they are supposedly allowed to issue for refusals.

    Now, if the airlines wanted to make consent to a search by their own employees or subcontractors a condition of passage on their carrier, that would not be a violation of my Constitutional rights. However, as the more eggregious examples of outrageous behvior by government employees in this matter demonstrate, the legal liability in assuming these duties themselves are finanacially and legally prohibitive, as would be the burden of the additional staff.

    Read the accounts of the ones who have aserted their rights and refused both…and then be held until the TSA determined “they were not a threat.” How did they determine that they were not a threat? It wasn’t searching them anyway. It was merely holding them. Now if the TSA can merely hold you until they determine that you are not a threat, I guess that they can let you board the damn airplane then, right? I mean since you aren’t a threat or anything, right?

  65. “There was NO al Qaeda in Iraq until after we invaded Iraq. Saddam hated them.”

    That is not accurate.

    Like Zarqawi, many Arabs fleeing American retaliation in Afghanistan after 9/11 found refuge with Ansar al-Islam. But then came an unexpected development. According to Dr Muhammad al-Masari, a Saudi specialist on Al-Qaeda’s ideology, Saddam established contact with the “Afghan Arabs” as early as 2001, believing he would be targeted by the US once the Taliban was routed.

    In this version, disputed by other commentators, Saddam funded Al-Qaeda operatives to move into Iraq with the proviso that they would not undermine his regime. Sources close to the Ba’ath regime have told me that Saddam also used to send messengers to buy small plots of land from farmers in Sunni areas. In the middle of the night soldiers would bury arms and money caches for later use by the resistance.

    According to Masari, Saddam saw that Islam would be key to a cohesive resistance in the event of invasion. Iraqi army commanders were ordered to become practising Muslims and to adopt the language and spirit of the jihadis.

    On arrival in Iraq, Al-Qaeda operatives were put in touch with these commanders, who later facilitated the distribution of arms and money from Saddam’s caches.

    Most commentators agree that Al-Qaeda was present in Iraq before the US invasion. The question is for how long and to what extent. What is known is that Zarqawi took a direct role in Al-Qaeda’s infiltration. In March 2003 — it is not clear whether this was before or after the invasion began — he met Al-Qaeda’s military strategist, an Egyptian called Muhammad Ibrahim Makkawi, and agreed to assist Al-Qaeda operatives entering Iraq.

    “I am highly critical of Obama’s handling of war and terrorism, and of the “patriot” act and all those other things.”

    Only after you get called out about it. It never enters your argument until someone else starts the comparisons.

    “AGREED! CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?”

    I can hear you, but consistency on your part would go a long way in helping me to remember it. Comments that exclusively go after Bush when we are talking about the US reaction don’t help convince me you really mean it.

    “They don’t “hate us for our freedoms.” What fucking moron came up with that idea?”

    You seem to be suggesting it when you cry about the terrorists already achieving their goals in America. They only way they have already beaten us is by forcing us to give up levels of freedom for levels of safety. So if you believe they have already won then what else is your point?

  66. Tex, tex, tex…a reasonable person could infer that you hate women. For a guy who alleges that he is all about God, Mom, apple pie, and the flag…you are unbelievably willing to humiliate others…”egregiously”. Did you learn that in church? I don’t think so…
    While you are insulting to liberals in general, you seem to take special pride in being insulting to women. It’s like you have a picture in your head of what liberal women look like…we are all “hags” with fat asses, and futhermore, we hate men and live only to destroy them. I don’t want to put too fine a point on this, Tex: this is sick. I’m only asking why some other people on this blog haven’t already pointed it out to you. It could be that any agreement is okay with them–another voice to join in. It could be that they are reluctant to tell you you’re sick.
    You can search the entire Internet. You can stalk me on my blog and lie in wait for me here. You can speculate about what I look like, and insult me, and you will never EVER find me doing the same to you.
    You’ve hated me from Day One on HP’s blog because I called you a troll. And that is in fact what you are. Trolls hide under bridges and bite the ankles of passersby. That is the pathetic image I have of you. But you earned it.

  67. If it makes you feel any better, Tex has called me a fat-ass before, too.

    The key is not to fucking whine about it. Unless of course you like it.

  68. BiW…good luck with that “you can’t do this to me without a warrant” thing. I’d recommend getting to the airport 8 hours in advance. Or maybe the day before. And mostly, not planning on traveling at all by air, just in case it doesn’t work out. The good news is that if you refuse, and they don’t let you board, you can sue them. The bad news is, you missed your flight, and stood up for a “principle” that isn’t really worth your time and energy. I can’t take a bottle of water on the plane anymore either. What…Ever! (Rolls eyes.) Should I conclude that the government wants me to die of thirst?
    Huck, so that’s your excuse? It’s whining?

  69. Also, BiW, please review your 3rd paragraph in comment #87. The word is “mandatory”, not “manditory”. I say this only because of the previous comments about whether or not “edict” can be a verb. Internet rule: Never ever criticize grammar or spelling. It will come back to haunt you. “Judge not”….

  70. I can’t take a bottle of water on the plane anymore either.

    Yes, you can. You just have to pay $3 after going through the security checkpoint. I did this very thing when I flew to Dallas last month.

    The good news is that if you refuse, and they don’t let you board, you can sue them.

    No, the good news is that I can win and section 1983 civil rights suits are very expen$ive to the parties who are found guilty, in part because they carry per$onal liability a$ a penalty, as well as overturning an unconstitional practice.

    The bad news is, you missed your flight, and stood up for a “principle” that isn’t really worth your time and energy.

    And when does the 4th Amendment become a “principal” that is worth my time and energy (since you seem to know what is and isn’t worth my time and energy)? Is it when I have to submit to a RapeScan or grope to board a train? How about when I get on a bus? When they install scanners in taxi cabs, or my personal automobile, maybe?

    You’ve expressed the belief that these searches make you safer when you fly. I have suggested a number of facts that suggest otherwise. Is it still your contention that it still makes you safer, or are you now maintaining that convenience and the fact that government does it regardless of the Constitutionality makes it unworthy of resistance and standing for a “principal”?

  71. Also, BiW, please review your 3rd paragraph in comment #87. The word is “mandatory”, not “manditory”. I say this only because of the previous comments about whether or not “edict” can be a verb. Internet rule: Never ever criticize grammar or spelling. It will come back to haunt you. “Judge not”….

    And also read my response to R, where I told him I actually liked the use, but couldn’t find where it actually fit the rules of grammar.

  72. To take a bottle of water with you on the plane, all you have to do is bring an empty bottle through security and fill it up with cold water at a water fountain. Unless you are the sort that is too fru-fru to consume tap water.

    $3 is too much to charge for bottled water that costs the vendor 25¢, but I’m sure that the airport concessions (government granted) appreciate the revenue.

  73. FN2, I am not the one doing it, so I don’t need to give excuses.

    What I am giving is advice. What you do with it is up to you….

  74. You’ve hated me from Day One on HP’s blog because I called you a troll.

    So you insulted him “from Day One”, and then spend the rest of your unhappy association with him bitching about him insulting you.

    Do you also criticize farmers when your mouth is full?

  75. To take a bottle of water with you on the plane, all you have to do is bring an empty bottle through security and fill it up with cold water at a water fountain. Unless you are the sort that is too fru-fru to consume tap water.

    Or unless it was recently reported that the tap water at that particular airport contained unusually high levels of lead and other contaminents, or if water from the local water tables was a bit too brackish for your liking.

  76. fakename @ 89:

    My congratulations on your eloquent takedown of the ankle-biting troll. His specialty is personal insults, especially when he doesn’t have any other ammo. So don’t feel too much like the lone ranger just because you are the only person here who happens to be female.

    Indeed, I think it is mommy issues when someone is THAT ugly towards random females. Putting up a photo that makes one look like Megan Kelly’s latest spread in Maxim is about the only thing that confirms a female’s worth as a human being to this crowd.

    I have called out Tex before for his hateful anti-female diatribes, but his “conservative” buddies only cheer him on. The so-called conservatives that hang out here may occasionally have mild and gentlemanly disagreements with each other, but they save the real ugliness for us liberals. Again, what other ammo do they have?

  77. “They don’t “hate us for our freedoms.” What fucking moron came up with that idea?”

    My point is that the fucking moron who came up with that nonsense planted the idea firmly into the minds of a large segment of the population, which continues to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of the so-called “war on terror.” It is still parroted by some “conservative” politicians in Congress.

    It’s very hard to put something like that back in the bottle once it has become the clearly enunciated opinion of our Commander in Chief.

  78. I have called out Tex before for his hateful anti-female diatribes, but his “conservative” buddies only cheer him on.

    Really? And here I thought that cheering someone on actually required, um, you know, actually cheering someone on? I don’t recall actually saying on any occaision “Wow, Tex! Saying FN2 has a fat ass was a particulary effective rebuttal of her agreement with Rutherford that opposition of oogle or grope policy of the TSA is a “tempest in a teapot”. Perhaps you can point out where that actually occurred, or perhaps you can correct your indictment. Don’t worry. I’m not holding my breath in anticipation of either one actually occurring.

    The so-called conservatives that hang out here may occasionally have mild and gentlemanly disagreements with each other, but they save the real ugliness for us liberals. Again, what other ammo do they have?

    You mean aside from the facts that often fillet many of your proclamations, arguments and contentions?

  79. As I said, you seem to believe it yourself as you go on about the terrorists already achieving their goals in the US.

    I asked once and I will repeat the question….

    Based on your previous statement, if taking away our freedoms is not part of AQ’s plans for America, how have they already won here?

  80. “The so-called conservatives that hang out here may occasionally have mild and gentlemanly disagreements with each other, but they save the real ugliness for us liberals.”

    Looks like the new kid needs to do some back reading.

  81. BiW..apparently I must keep being the prissy English teacher. The word is “principle”, not “principal”. And my antipathy toward Tex had to do with him attacking me for no reason on HP’s blog. Yes, I called him a troll…but did I do so wihout provocation? It would never have occurred to me to attack him for no reason.
    You know him better and longer than I do, so I think it will come as no surprise to you that I was shocked myself at how vitriolic he was. “Troll” was accurate. My question is, why don’t you police him?…I kind of get him…I just don’t get the rest of you. He does your arguments a disservice by being totallly batshit crazy, and still you don’t repudiate him.

  82. Just quickly skimmed the comments while in the bar next to the tire store. Getting all-terrain monsters on the beast. Anyways, I’m betting fakename is back. I can tell because instantly all conversations revolve around how special she is because of her gash. My God, lady…nobody except Greychin gives a shit a you’re a woman. You liberal chicks kill me: always insulted when your treated like one of the guys, always insulted when not treated like guys.

  83. Gash? Is there some planet where you don’t think that’s insulting? Would you refer to your wife or daughter or mother or sister or cousin or next-door neighbor as a “gash”? what on earth is wrong with you?

  84. Fake, fake, fake…

    You’ve hated me from Day One on HP’s blog because I called you a troll.

    And had never said a word to you directly before that. You didn’ t even have the courtesy to address your insults to me sissy. If you can’t stand the heat….

    Fake, you’re nothing but a weak coward that attempts to hide behind her “fairer” gender when she can’ t answer a question, can not stand up under the smallest of scrutiny, and censors on her blog when she doesn’t get a post that agrees with her in entirety. You’re the damn definition of pitiful. There’s nothing particular remarkable or complicated about you. You’re a lonely, liberal old woman, who will remain so for the remainder of her days. Enjoy your sister….

    And that is in fact what you are. Trolls hide under bridges and bite the ankles of passersby. That is the pathetic image I have of you. But you earned it.

    zzzzzzz…. So what? Do you honestly think I give a damn what you think of me? I hope you hate my guts. I intend for you to lily. I find you and your opinions straight out of the gates of useful idiot hell, and I find you particularly useless. You never answer a question, you apparently are a brainless hack that never fails to quote the liberal meme, you have no sense of humor, and you stay in perpetual state of pouting.

    That’s even worse than Graychin. He only occasionally whines about how we all pick on him. That’s his first excuse, while he ignores all of us shred his idiocy. I usually only resort to insult his feckless opinions and I do so for one reason only – he’s a lying, self-serving, self-centered, phony dog.

    Take your sanctimony and choke on it – I never claimed to be Jesus. I only said I believe He is what He said. Fortunately for me, He will be my judge and not you. 😉

    ———-

    Mommy issues… 😆 Graychin Van Rambo, you lying horse’s ass and blowhard. Military hero. That topped even your twisted recount of history potato peeler. 😈 Your charges aren’t even worth answering because I actually grow bored with insulting you. You’re even more predictable than Fake.

    I offered to let a war machine like you shut my mouth and you disappeared. Did you miss that Rambo? I even offered to let you bring the Dawg for backup. You’ve got only one redeeming quality – Polly want a cracker. Go listen to some more Butch Madcow to get today’s talking points and get back with me.

  85. My guess: this blog is populated by men who really, really hate women.

    You mean like Rutherford and his creepy obsession with Palin, Bachmann and others?

    If I were an armchair psychologist like yourself, I might pontificate about the host setting the tone, but instead I’ll simply suggest that you never bet the farm on your “guesses’ in Vegas.

  86. Hmm…one last thing Fake.

    Yes, I called him a troll…but did I do so wihout provocation? It would never have occurred to me to attack him for no reason.

    Care to place a bet on that? We can go back and review Hippie’s blog for free to see you’re lying through your teeth…

    So how much to you want to wager before we take a look?

  87. I so hate women that my five favorite people in the world are women: (1) Wife of 24 years (the one and only, by the way), (2) Daughter, (3) Daughter, (4) Mommie Dearest, (5) Sis.

    The women I do hate are misandrists – and apparently your track record “with men” wouldn’t compare to favorably to my track record with women. How do you balance that fact Fake?

    Or is that just another question you refuse to answer?

  88. Again, what other ammo do they have?

    This must have been a weak attempt at parody from the man who told me in Nov. 2008 the Republican party was going the way of the Whigs – and had become a “regional” party. Your record of predictive capability has been a little suspect as of late Mr. Gray…

    What other ammo? I think the real question is, “how long before YOU recognize you’ve been exposed?”

    How about 682 legislative state seats for exchange? The most in recorded history. More now that 12 Dims have switched to the “regional” party since the election. How about 63 Congressional seats changing parties?

    Or has your memory grown that short Steven “Graychin” Seagal? I think the ammo exploded in your face…

    Congratulations on finding a friend.

  89. Or has your memory grown that short Steven “Graychin” Seagal? I think the ammo exploded in your face…

    I am going to distance myself from this.

    While my dislike for the Chin is visceral and undeniable, I really don’t think that he is going to seek validation in stolen valor. I realize that Tex probably disagrees with me, and therefore, this will be something that we will disagree on, but I will take the Chin at face value on this.

  90. I really don’t think that he is going to seek validation in stolen valor.

    I think there’s a lot more to that story than we’ve been led to believe. John Kerry was once considered a “war hero” until the real truth came out. And I have always pictured Graychin cut of the same cloth: arrogant, pompous, self-righteous, and an incredibly inflated value of worth where nothing of real character or intellect exists.

    You’ve got a lot more faith in the master of propaganda’s honesty than I do…you don’t come to his conclusions, mock the things he does, and represent anything of valor or decency.

  91. Finally someone distances themselves. But don’t do so on my account. Don’t say that Tex’s language disgusts you and is not representative of your own feelings. Tex doesn’t disagree, he “hates”.
    Tex: I feel fortunate not to be in your group of women that you “like”, because it scares me what would happen if you stopped.

  92. B – W @ #86:

    Murder is the killing of another human being with intent and depending on the degree, premeditation and malice aforethought.

    You can’t hide behind the law on this one, can you? You have to create your own law again, as you have in deciding that the FDA is unconstitutional.

    Setting aside the question of whether a six-week embryo is equivalent to a “human being” in your definition of “murder” (the law says it is not), the following situations fit your definition of murder:

    The State sticks needles into the arm of a person strapped to a table, taking his life by injecting lethal chemicals with premeditation, motivated by a malicious spirit of revenge for his antisocial acts. Murder?

    A man in a jurisdiction with a “make my day” law (like Oklahoma) shoots an intruder in the back as the intruder is attempting to flee out his front door. Murder?

    A pharmacist shoots a would-be holdup man five times as the man lies unconscious on the floor of the store:

    http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-pharmacist-faces-murder-charge-in-shooting/article/3372941

    Murder?

    A college student goes to a frat party, gets a bit tipsy, and has unplanned sex with a fratboy she barely knows. The next morning She acquires and takes a course of the “morning after pill,” and never knows if she would have become pregnant or not. Did she “murder” that hypothetical embryo that never implanted?

    An Afghan sniper affiliated with Al Qaeda shoots and kills an American soldier in Afghanistan. Murder?

    An American sniper shoots and kills a combatant affiliated with Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. Murder?

    An American drone is directed to destroy a house in which a suspected terrorist is believed to be staying along with a number of civilians. Murder?

    Not all killing in the circumstances you defined is murder. Killing is only murder when the law says it is.

    So what do you say? Do you make this stuff up as you go along? Or are you in touch with some “higher” law, a deity whispering in your ear?

  93. “Based on your previous statement, if taking away our freedoms is not part of AQ’s plans for America, how have they already won here?”

    The quote in question is that AQ “hates us for our freedoms.” You have changed the subject.

    Even though our ideology may be foreign to them, I think that AQ can see that much of the world has admired that ideology. As I stated much earlier, much of their objective is to cause us to act out of fear rather than out of principle and reason. Doing exactly that has cost us dearly in international respect, in money of course, and also in our own self-image as the “land of the free.”

    Of course AQ’s ultimate objective is that we get the hell out of “their” part of the world, and stop helping Israel beat up on the Palestinians. Luring us into losing battles in that part of the world is just a tactic in a long-term strategy. Why are we so stupid as to play their game?

  94. Setting aside the question of whether a six-week embryo is equivalent to a “human being” in your definition of “murder” (the law says it is not), the following situations fit your definition of murder:

    But you can’t really “set it aside”. Your argument might win if that ‘blob of cells’ was ever going to be anything other than an other human being. But seeing as it has its own unique HUMAN genetic code from the moment that the first fertilized cell divides, there really is no danger that a pregnant woman exercising her “right to choose” is killing a litter of puppies.

    The State sticks needles into the arm of a person strapped to a table, taking his life by injecting lethal chemicals with premeditation, motivated by a malicious spirit of revenge for his antisocial acts. Murder?

    “The State” is not a person, and the accused had the due process of a trial, where they were found guilty, beyond a shadow of doubt, by a jury of their peers. Did that guiltless embryo have the same luxury?

    A man in a jurisdiction with a “make my day” law (like Oklahoma) shoots an intruder in the back as the intruder is attempting to flee out his front door. Murder?

    Really? Defense of your curtiliedge is murder? Wow, you would have had fun in class at my law school.

    A pharmacist shoots a would-be holdup man five times as the man lies unconscious on the floor of the store:

    No longer stopping illegal activity, and no threat from an unconscious person. I’ll give you that one.

    A college student goes to a frat party, gets a bit tipsy, and has unplanned sex with a fratboy she barely knows. The next morning She acquires and takes a course of the “morning after pill,” and never knows if she would have become pregnant or not. Did she “murder” that hypothetical embryo that never implanted?

    We’ve already done this dance, but I do like cloaking the act in “getting tipsy”. Makes me wonder what other things you will excuse by irresponsible behavior.

    An Afghan sniper affiliated with Al Qaeda shoots and kills an American soldier in Afghanistan. Murder?

    An American sniper shoots and kills a combatant affiliated with Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. Murder?

    An American drone is directed to destroy a house in which a suspected terrorist is believed to be staying along with a number of civilians. Murder?

    Killing done by governments or their agents of enemies while at war is murder? Really?

    So I expect that having done things that actually got you decorated (twice) when you wore the uniform, you’re guilty of multiple instances of such murders yourself?

    I didn’t think so.

    So what do you say?

    I say you’re one and six, and that gets you a box of Rice-A-Roni and some lovely parting gifts. Thanks for playing our game.

  95. My question is, why don’t you police him?…I kind of get him…I just don’t get the rest of you. He does your arguments a disservice by being totallly batshit crazy, and still you don’t repudiate him.

    How did I miss this beauty?

    You don’t get me a bit Blog Nanny. You think I’m this acerbic at home, in a more structured blog, in public, at school or work? I don’t like you; I don’t like Graychin. You’re a weasel and a baby; Graychin is a pompous asshole and bully. I treat him like he treats me. He ain’t complaining and neither am I. What are you? Bliss Ninny? Innocence Abused?

    And how could my arguments with you possibly have any bearing on any other debate here? You think my cohorts here are dependent upon me in some way? It’s their responsibility to monitor me, or take a cue from me? That’s an insult to everyone here but me dummy. It’s thought police like you that suck the joy out of a blog. That’s why your blog sucks donkey dicks.

    And you’re so damn smart correcting everyone’s spelling. Have you reread any of your numerous typos in these posts? Half of your damn posts read like abbreviations. You have absolutely no room to be criticizing anybody’s style or capability.

  96. Of course AQ’s ultimate objective is that we get the hell out of “their” part of the world, and stop helping Israel beat up on the Palestinians. Luring us into losing battles in that part of the world is just a tactic in a long-term strategy. Why are we so stupid as to play their game?

    Of course, if we quit holding Israel back and let them unload on the murdering savages, we’ll have a much wider conflict to deal with, as well as one whole section of the globe that will be a little hot for the next couple of thousand years, but I’m sure that will be their fault too. You should read those careful analyses of that situation in the orginal German. So much more inspiring, especially with the Wagner playing in the background.

  97. Tex: I feel fortunate not to be in your group of women that you “like”, because it scares me what would happen if you stopped.

    Oh gag. ** VOMIT **

    Do you know transparent you are Bliss Ninny? I could give you some really good advice, but I would be the last person on earth you would listen to, no matter how good the advice.

    Have you ever stopped to wonder maybe why you have no man and no life Ms. Innocence Abused? Why you have to surround yourself with animals to have companionship?

    No man wants some crybaby, some critic, some clinger for a girlfriend Bliss. Come on woman! You’re 60 frickin years old. Toughen up a bit.

  98. My guess: this blog is populated by men who really, really hate women.

    And now I am going to take the woman I hate so much that I’ve been married to her for 16 years to dinner, and then to see “A Christmas Story” at the 5th Avenue Theatre in Seattle for her birthday.

    I’m so hateful of her that I’ll give her a very nice gift during dinner, and then we will go out and get into the car that I bought her last year for the trip.

    My mysogeny. It teh burns.

  99. On that note, does anyone remember that “liberal” used to mean “people who support individual freedom”? In my view, it still does. “Conservative” to me means people who want to tell you how to think and behave.
    And Graychin…yes. We will never, ever be safe until we stop supportiing whatever the hell Israel wants to do. It’s an unpopular view, but in reality, the creation of Israel was a really stupid move that we will pay for forever, unless we stop.

  100. “Conservative” to me means people who want to tell you how to think and behave.

    Then I’ll assume you consider yourself the most conservative person on earth, as that is exactly what you are attempting to do here on this very blog – how to think and how to behave.

    You’re as incongruent as Graychin is in your argument.

  101. In my view, it still does. “Conservative” to me means people who want to tell you how to think and behave.

    You mean like those “Conservative” governments that ban smoking in restaurants and bars, thus substituting their own judgment for the owners of those establishments, or the “Conservative” government in San Fransico that banned Happy Meals, thus substituting their judgment for that of area parents, or that “Conservative” Congress that decided that everyone WILL buy health insurance, and from plans of government’s choosing instead of their own, or that “Conservative” Congress that decided for us all that we cannot have incandescent lightbulbs because the squiggly little florescent ones are better…because they say so?

    Maybe you’d like a little salt with that foot…you know, just to help you to swallow those bites a little easier?

  102. And Graychin…yes. We will never, ever be safe until we stop supportiing whatever the hell Israel wants to do. It’s an unpopular view, but in reality, the creation of Israel was a really stupid move that we will pay for forever, unless we stop.

    What history books have you been reading? We no more “created” Israel than the Arabs “created” Palestine.

  103. Ah, now it becomes clearer. The Zionist hater…Support Israel in all she does?

    Like give up parts of the Gaza strip? The West Bank? A two state solution, including dividing the capital of Israel aka Jerusalem? Giving Palestinians and Hamas $1.3 billion in aid to the Gaza Strip and West Bank?

    Condemned Israel on the floor of the U.N. when she bombed Saddam’s reactors in 1982?

    You think that’s what Israel wanted, do you Fake? 🙄

  104. BiW, I’ve read a great deal about the history of the region, and therefore I know that the creatiion of Israel was just that. It was created out of whole cloth. Out of guilt, we let them displace a milliion Palestians. A million. Explain to me how that is okay.

  105. I do in fact despise Zionism. It’s a political idea within Judaism which has nothing to do with religion.

    Your biblical lack of knowledge of the Old Testament is frankly stunning, starting with Jacob’s very name. Doesn’t have anything to do with religion? Heck, throw the New Testament in for that matter.

    ** GUFFAW **

    What do you think Zionism is before I hammer you?

  106. “Of course AQ’s ultimate objective is that we get the hell out of “their” part of the world, and stop helping Israel beat up on the Palestinians.”

    No it isn’t.

    First, as I have said more than once, AQ’s ultimate goal is to reestablish the caliphate. That goal would not go away even if every single western soldier left the Middle East tomorrow.

    Second, AQ does not care about the Palestinian cause. It wants to use the Palestinian cause to try and mobilize Palestinians to its own cause. (See above for another reminder of what that cause is) If Israel stopped beating up on the Palestinians tomorrow, neither AQ’s goals or actions would cease.

  107. Ever the slippery eel, blowing smoke and obfuscating.

    “So I expect that having done things that actually got you decorated (twice) when you wore the uniform, you’re guilty of multiple instances of such murders yourself? I didn’t think so.”

    My obvious point, which everyone but you understood clearly, but which you are doing your best to avoid, was that not everything that fits within your very own definition of murder – is murder. And my examples prove it, even to you.

    Killing a human being is not criminal (i.e. murder) in any number of circumstances. At least you were forced to admit that much.

    So in summary: abortion is murder, but other legal killing is not – because Black = White says that abortion is murder. And for no other reason.

    (I have developed a deep appreciation for your screen name. It’s so fitting!)

    And illegal immigrants in Texas aren’t “persons.” And the FDA is unconstitutional because it is based in part on the first in a long series of abuses of the Commerce Clause. (How much more of what we take for granted every day is unconstitutional? The mind boggles.)

    You’re developing quite a record of pettifoggery, Councilor. And the list gets longer all the time.

  108. Second, AQ does not care about the Palestinian cause. It wants to use the Palestinian cause to try and mobilize Palestinians to its own cause.

    Since we know that all “real” Americans care deeply about Israel, and support Israel’s noble struggle against the hostile forces that surround them, why would you assume that AQ doesn’t care about Palestinians – the people without a country?

    So – Americans care only about justice in the Middle East. But Muslims merely use Palestinians as their pawns cynically in their quest for global domination. Right! Got it!

    We are not likely to agree with the point of view of those who would do us harm, but simply demonizing them and making no effort to understand their true motivation as human beings is no way to make ourselves (or our allies) any safer.

    This kind of thinking is the direct result of the “with us or against us,” “hate us for our freedoms” thinking and rhetoric that was used to whip up support for the misguided invasion of Iraq.

  109. Well it’s good to see how any good will generated by Thanksgiving evaporates within 24 hours. While I truly do appreciate you guys participating on this forum I was dumbfounded that anyone posted anything yesterday and equally shocked at the volume today. Don’t any of you have a long weekend?

    OK, just a couple of comments:
    I won’t even address Tex’s usual Hannibal Lecter psychoanalysis. Tex is Tex and that’s all there is to it.

    BiW you made quite the unforgivable dodge in today’s comments. FN2 asked why no one protested Tex’s alleged misogyny and your answer was to find a quote from you where you support his misogyny. You know damn well that is quite beside the point. “First they came for the Communists and I didn’t speak up …” I see no reason why FN2 should not interpret silence as tacit approval.

    With that said, it really isn’t the obligation of any commenter to scold other commenters. That’s my job. And my excuse may be weak but I repeat what i said earlier, Tex is Tex. Fair minded readers will read a well made point and then only read those parts of Tex’s response that address the point. His ad-hominem is so predictable that it is kinda like Muzak. No problem unless you really let Muzak get to you.

    Speaking of Muzak, I am sorry but I REFUSE to listen to Christmas music on Thanksgiving. It started coming out of the radio yesterday and I shut the damn thing off and put on a Diana Krall CD.

  110. So-called “conservatives” seem to me to favor absolute freedom in matters of economics. Laissez-faire capitalism, Ayn Rand and all that stuff.

    At the same time, that kind of conservative often has no problem with trampling on the Establishment clause of the First Amendment, stretching the Fourth Amendment to the point that it’s FUBAR, believing that a right to privacy and other common personal rights need not be respected because they aren’t mentioned specifically in the Constitution (“Do not emanate in the penumbra”), believing that accused criminals have too many rights, and whining about the ACLU’s efforts to force government to respect the Bill of Rights, even when that isn’t convenient. Especially then.

    “Conservatives” are the ones who think that Guantanamo should remain open permanently as a offshore prison for suspected “terrorists” – without access to process of law. They are likely to approve of forms of torture that fall short of causing organ failure (like waterboarding) because… Well, just because.

    And abortion – “conservatives” would get the government involved whenever someone contemplates an abortion. That’s “conservative”?

    So-called liberals on the other hand don’t have much of a problem with government regulation of the amoral entities known as large public corporations. Those corporations aren’t even people, and are far removed from the human beings for whom they allegedly speak. They are creatures of government in the first instance, and have little claim to freedom from government interference in their activities.

    Liberals often believe (as I do) that the primary purpose of government is to protect us from the predatory or dangerous behavior of others. That is why they are perceived sometimes as trampling on the “rights” of the likes of smokers fouling the air that others must breathe. But with our ACLU bent, we want the government’s power over the individual to be limited as the Founding Fathers intended when they wrote the Bill of Rights as limitations ON GOVERNMENT vs. individuals.

    No wonder the rich and powerful tend to be “conservatives” and think that liberals are dangerous.

  111. Tex is Tex?

    Boys will be boys, I guess.

    I have been posting here for a while now, and I can’t recall any of the rabid “conservatives” here ever calling out another member of their little club for making a particularly vicious personal attack on another commenter – like the ones that Tex has been making on FN2. Has it ever happened? I don’t think so.

    B = W’s comment above @ #118 is the closest anyone has ever come. Thanks a lot for your spirited defense, B = W.

    Like FN2, I interpret silence as tacit approval.

  112. Two more things before I call it a night.

    The only alternative to the current screening procedures that I have seen in this thread is “profiling”. OK, grand. Please tell me how we go about that? Pull folks out of line based on last name? Skin color? Type of clothing? Let’s have some specifics gentlemen. And how will we catch Richard Reid, a Brit who looked slightly ethnic or Jihad Jane … a white woman?

    The other thing that amazes me is how the world suddenly changed on January 20, 2009. All of a sudden, all of the useless security measures put in place by the Bush administration suddenly became super-toxic! Bush “kept us safe” for the better part of eight years but when Obama doubles down, suddenly it’s too much. And it’s not limited to security. Economy in the tank and all sorts of sh*t going down but suddenly on January 20, 2009 we need a Tea Party to set things straight. You guys are too much.

    Finally I will say just one thing about Israel. Whether or not you agree with the establishment of Israel, whether or not you consider the state of Israel an appropriate consequence of the horrible Holocaust, this much is true: There is NOTHING that Israel can do that will cause America to repudiate it. That is up to and including the use of a nuclear weapon. And that my friends is disturbing. None of our allies should receive unconditional support. This is a statement of practical fact and not antisemitism.

  113. Boy Graychin, you’re so dumb about the “Palestinian” cause, there is no use debating with you. You do have a wonderful imagination – like your war exploits.

    No, the Jordanians, the Syrians, the Iranians, and especially the Sauds do not give a damn about Palestine, and I can easily prove that. Maybe another time…as I’ve proved that here numerous times already and you didn’t get it then either.

    Vicious personal attacks on Fake. 😆 Graychin, you obviously never got any pussy when you were young. Hell, Fake thinks Zionism doesn’t have anything to do with Judaism; why should you understand Palestine.

    You ought to hook up with Fake – she needs a “strong” man Rambo. You could sweep her off her feet with your daring Vietnam exploits.

  114. Good grief. Now Graychin is playing on soft emotions.

    You “conservative” guys lambaste me and get it over with so Fake and Graychin will “respect” you and Graychin can get over his Phil Donuhue and Alan Alda episode.

    Graychin is a woman trapped in a man’s body. 😈

  115. BiW you made quite the unforgivable dodge in today’s comments. FN2 asked why no one protested Tex’s alleged misogyny and your answer was to find a quote from you where you support his misogyny. You know damn well that is quite beside the point. “First they came for the Communists and I didn’t speak up …” I see no reason why FN2 should not interpret silence as tacit approval

    BiW, I’ve read a great deal about the history of the region, and therefore I know that the creatiion of Israel was just that. It was created out of whole cloth. Out of guilt, we let them displace a milliion Palestians. A million. Explain to me how that is okay.

    You need to get your money back. “We” didn’t do anything other than recognize the state that the Israelis themselves created. It really wasn’t for us to prevent. If you want to be outraged, be outraged at the Palis’ arab bretheren, who continue to use them as pawns and proxies in battles against Israel that they could not themselves win in a straight up fight.

    No, actually I gave her whining all the consideration it deserved, which is to say none. What I did was specifically answer the Chin’s falsehood.

    I have no control over how she takes things, but for you to equate silence with consent would be wrong. However, I would rather address the actual topics being discussed rather than devolving into politically correct canabalistic orgy over what someone else can and cannot say. I’ll leave those backbiting festivals to the professional victims in society and the academic elites fighting to preserve all freedom of speech except that which they don’t like.

  116. B = W’s comment above @ #118 is the closest anyone has ever come. Thanks a lot for your spirited defense, B = W.

    It wasn’t a defense. I just refuse to believe that even you would be that dispicable, and in giving you the benefit of the doubt, I’m not down with having your courage questioned.

    And abortion – “conservatives” would get the government involved whenever someone contemplates an abortion. That’s “conservative”?

    And liberals would grind everything to a halt to save a fish or a bird, but consider the made-up right to kill the baby humans sacrosanct. Yeah, there’s no disconnect there.

  117. “Oh yeah? Well……liberals are worse!”

    Great response.

    Are you going to admit that abortion is not “murder,” amend your silly definition of “murder,” or sneak away as quietly as possible hoping that no one will notice? Most likely the last of those – it’s what you do most often. Anything but hear the ice cracking beneath you, Mr. Commerce Clause.

    By the way – in response to your throwaway line, it isn’t about saving an insignificant fish or a bird. It’s about saving a unique ecosystem about to be lost to Planet Earth for all eternity. But that’s a subtlety I wouldn’t expect you to be willing to try to grasp – it would be disturbing to you if it didn’t fit into your ideologie über alles mindset. Besides, it’s much less effort to be mentally lazy and hang onto snail darters and spotted owls as symbols rather than engage in a real discussion.

    And it is quite a stretch to call a fertilized egg in its first 48 hours of existence a “baby” and the corpus delecti of the the crime of “murder.” Use of emotionally-laden language is another phony dodge you like to use to avoid looking at things objectively.

  118. R: re comment #141. Don’t be trying to get all fair and balanced on me 🙂 No obligation is suggested, where it concerns “scolding” other commenters. But the fact is, there is quite a great deal of scolding going on here. And you can’t help but notice that the comments tend to range far afield. From a post about TSA to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict to…abortion? That being the case, misogyny is as legitimate a diversion as any other. And in my view, the most important one, because it underlies much of what is said here. To make sure I’m still grounded in reality, give me a nanosecond to check with all the other females who comment here. Yeah. They all agree with me.

  119. I am, somewhat oddly, tending to agree partially with Huck in #138. The “Palestinian issue” is merely a convenient excuse for AQ. I think we have to accept that they are murderers, thugs, and psychopaths…they are neither a political nor a religious movement. They have hijacked both politics and religion to suit their own greedy and insane need for power. Chief psycho being Osama Bin Laden. That said…how is it that a complete idiot like him has attracted so many followers?
    Along the lines of “the terrorists have won” I offer these observations: we are now willing to threaten TSA workers, Americans like us who are trying to do their jobs. I read one story in which a man said, you can pat me down, but I can’t guarantee what my reaction might be. Oh, and not to mention that they are disparaged as “rent-a-cops”. (This means you BiW.)
    Second, millions of Americans are now convinced that Islam is the problem. Any college freshman having taken Logic 101 gets the part where all dogs are mammals, but all mammals are not dogs.

  120. Fake, you ignorant slut.

    Click on BiC’s blog and you will see not only female posters, but really fine female posters who are treated with respect from all the boys – me included.

    You can hide behind your misogyny charges, which is what weak, clingy, leftist feminists always charge when they won’t admit they have a lifetime of men issues, but the fact even I am well mannered with the other females on linked blogs pretty much disproves it’s a hatred of women.

    No Fake, here’s the problem and it is quite simple:

    And Rabbit nailed it 100% correctly from above when he eloquently said, “You liberal chicks kill me: always insulted when your treated like one of the guys, always insulted when not treated like guys.”

    The problem is you.

    Now, can you start to answer questions, or are you just going to whine all day again? Maybe we would treat you a little more respectfully if you would try answer questions addressed to you.

  121. This fact concerning Palestinians always seems to be forgotten when they are characterized as the “victims” and Jews as the bully:

    Palestinians could have had their own country as far back as 1948 had they accepted the UN sponsored partition plan which gave Israel AND the Palestinians a countries of their own on land which Jews had lived on for thousands of years, long before Muhammad. The Arabs rejected the UN offer and went to war with the nascent Israeli nation. The Arabs lost.

  122. Anyone who wants to be treated with respect at B = W’s blog had better agree with the party line. “Dick” is a really respectful guy. A gentleman and a scholar. Isn’t he, Tex?

    FN, I doubt you would be treated like a “fine female poster” over there. More like a “liberal chick.”

    Tex kinda sorta has a valid point here – he really is an equal opportunity misanthrope. Sexual attacks are one of favorite weapons, so his attacks on your gender stand out because (for some odd reason) you are the only female here. Did you catch his earlier jab at me – that I’m a “woman trapped in a man’s body”? 😀

    Rachel Maddow’s lesbianism drives him nuts. He was probably one of those ugly schoolyard bullies who calls everyone a “queer.” (Still is, in fact.) He definitely has some sexual issues in addition to his mommy issues.

    And this is the way the guy is AFTER his life-changing religious conversion! Can you even imagine what he was like before?

    Come to think of it, I can imagine. Pretty much like he is now, but perhaps less self-righteous.

  123. Rachel Maddow’s lesbianism drives him nuts. He was probably one of those ugly schoolyard bullies who calls everyone a “queer.” (Still is, in fact.) He definitely has some sexual issues in addition to his mommy issues.

    Drives me nuts? 🙂 Provides ammunition more like. That, and the fact Butch looks like she could chew nails when she’s not munching the carpet. I think it’s the lovely hairdo that does so much for me and her fabulous knowledge of physics.

    And this is the way the guy is AFTER his life-changing religious conversion! Can you even imagine what he was like before?

    Is that in comparison to your normalizing a man ramming his swollen penis up another’s external anal sphincter as just another sex act? As love? As the equivalent to heterosexual marriage? That is your pat line.

    I am curious Graychin. When you hang over another man’s ass, do you take a good hard look at that stink star and think, “YUM YUM!!!”? Does your wife?

    Come to think of it, I can imagine. Pretty much like he is now, but perhaps less self-righteous.

    Maybe – but unlike you, I never claimed myself worthy of redefining what’s moral. Wasn’t but 40 years ago, homosexuality redefined after thousands of years to be an “alternative” life style. Until then, it was understood to be a mental illness and perversion. Still is but is plays well with the Sodom crowd like you, as you still believe political correctness to be manly.

  124. “Palestinians could have had their own country as far back as 1948…”

    Actually, the Palestinians DID have their own country as far back as 1948. It was known as the British Mandate of Palestine. But:

    “I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me.” (Exodus 20:5)

    Clearly the 1948 Palestinians didn’t pay sufficient heed to the Hebrew scriptures.

    To Israel’s blind apologists (like some of our present company), the present predicament of the Palestinian people is their own fault, or rather the fault of their grandfathers for the choices they made in 1948. So God is punishing their offspring to the third and fourth generation. It’s only fair.

    Sixty years is about three generations. Does this mean that the Palestinian people might see some relief in the foreseeable future? I’m not very hopeful. Because…

    Israel’s present game plan is to establish settlements in every corner of a potential future Palestinian state, so that such a state can never be viable, and so that the land that God gave them (remember the song from Exodus?) will never revert to any control other than that of Israel. So for now, it’s a delay game. Pretend to “negotiate” to keep the Americans pacified, while expanding the settlements more and more…..

    What is Mr. Netanyahu’s vision of the ultimate fate of the Palestinian people under this game plan? He doesn’t say.

  125. I love it when Graychin mocks scriptures. I always think of Sam Kinnison and the phrase “vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord.”

    What a glorious day that will be. And it’s so close. 🙂

    ———–

    Let’s rehash history Graychin, because yours is always so fogged.

    Israel resettled and absorbed all of the Jews from Arab countries who wished to become Israelis. Why haven’t any Arab countries offered to resettle Arabs who were displaced from Israel, leaving them to rot for 60 years in squalid refugee camps? And why are those refugee camps still there? Could it be that the billions of dollars that the UNWRA has sent there goes to terrorist groups like Hamas, Islamic Jihad, El Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, or Hezbollah?

    How did Yassir Arafat achieve his $300 million in wealth Gray? Why weren’t those funds distributed for humanitarian use?

  126. I know why you like Fake Graychin. She reminds you of Yeller Dawg.

    Only her “depth” of answer could ever come close to matching yours.

    You should ask her to moderate your blog. She’s perfect.

  127. Graychin, there’s a question I’ve always wanted to ask you and have never gotten around to doing so.

    Do you swallow?

  128. Tex, most of the Christians I know do not gloat over God’s approaching vengeance and look forward to it as “glorious.” Their Christianity centers on Jesus’ teachings of love and not on Old Testament vengeance.

    That’s a mighty strange Christianity you’ve got there. Most Christians would say that you have completely missed the point.

  129. @153…”Fake, you ignorant slut”. That is actually the only funny thing you’ve ever said to me Tex, and not to mention, the most complimentary:) I’m old enough to remember Jane Curtin.
    So I was about to say, what is it about the women on BiW’s blog that is different? My guess was that they are conservative. My guess was also that because they agree with you, you don’t subject them to the kind of vitriolic, made-up attacks about them that you subject me to. If it appears to you and BiW that I’m playing the victim…well, that would be because you are victimizing me. Har har and guffaw.
    Graychin, of course it did not escape my notice that Tex called you a woman in a man’s body. I was expecting worse…like mere speculation about the size of your penis, but what we got was much, much worse. Comment #156 should be in the manual for how to be completely crazy and be accepted on the Internet. And STILL no one will call him on it..in the interest of free speech, I presume. Oh. And no scolding.

  130. In the aftermath of the 1948 war, about 750,000 out of 900,000 Palestinians fled or were expelled from the boundaries of what became the State of Israel. Jordan, Syria and Lebanon absorbed many of the refugees. Others remained behind in the West Bank and Gaza. How can you say that the other “Arab countries” didn’t do enough? And why are Palestinian refugees the sole responsibility of Arabs? How many Palestinians did the United States welcome?

    Today, how does a Palestinian inhabitant of Gaza go about leaving and resettling somewhere else?

  131. Arafat was a loathsome man and remains a red herring in discussions about Palestinians and why their condition is their own fault. Can’t you come up with something relevant or meaningful?

  132. Graychin, though we all fall short, I’ve never witnessed a more arrogant man that enjoys boasting in blasphemy, believing he’s got it all figured out.. I realized that the other day when you used Jesus and asshole in the same sentence.

    See, I find you just as sick as you find me. But the difference is, I mock you; you’re arrogant enough you mock God. You will soon find out you had nothing figured out, and in fact were a very stupid man. So are the people you hang with like Yeller Dawg.

  133. In those satires on SNL, Dan Ackroyd was presaging the rise of the likes of Tex Taylor when he would call Jane Curtin an “ignorant slut.” Back then it was ridiculous. Today, it’s everyday stuff on this blog.

    But it’s still ridiculous.

  134. Tex, are you aware that YOU just used “Jesus” and “asshole” in the same sentence! How dare you engage in such blasphemy? 😀

    And you just got through asking if I “swallow,” and were talking in detail about other sexual activity that you consider perverted. Did you wash your fingertips with soap before you typed Jesus’ name with those filthy hands?

    What a hypocritical piece of crap you are. Good thing for you that there are no storm clouds on the horizon today!

    Just exactly how many words, sentences or verses must we put between “Jesus” and “asshole” to avoid being dragged into your blasphemy court?

    Give me chapter and verse, please – I always check your cites because you have been known to reword and decontextualize to suit your purpose du jour.

  135. In the aftermath of the 1948 war, about 750,000 out of 900,000 Palestinians fled or were expelled from the boundaries of what became the State of Israel. Jordan, Syria and Lebanon absorbed many of the refugees.

    You really need to turn off Al-Jeezera. You and Noam Chomsky must have read from the same history book.

    Can you tell us ANY Arab country which offers Jews the right to be citizens, vote, own property, businesses, be a part of the government or have ANY of the rights which Israeli Arabs enjoy? Any Arab country which gives those rights to Christians?

    Can you tell me any predominately Christian nation that has an renowned terrorist organization like Hamas as it’s elected governing body?

  136. Following the 1948 Arab–Israeli war approximately 900,000 Palestinian refugees were forced to flee their towns, villages, and homes. The vast majority fled to neighbouring Arab countries, including Jordan, which in 1950 had formally annexed the West Bank, where many refugees sought shelter. Another wave of Palestinian refugees fled to Jordan as a consequence of the 1967 war, when Israel occupied the West Bank and Gaza along with other Arab territories. The annexation of the West Bank and the refugee flows into Jordan transformed its demographic structure, tipping the balance in favour of a Palestinian majority. Today, Palestinians in Jordan, most of whom were granted citizenship in the early 1950s, represent over half of the Jordanian population.

    http://www.forcedmigration.org/guides/fmo025/fmo025.pdf

    Yeah – the neighboring Arab states didn’t do nearly enough for the Palestinians.

  137. Graychin…if Tex is the example of Christianity we should all aspire to…well then, I too rest my case.
    I am not surprised by the fact that people who are Israel apologists never read anything that might upset their preconceived apple carts. I just finished “Blood Brothers”, by Elias Chacour (with a ghost writer, David Hazard). And before that, I read Jimmy Carter’s “Peace Not Apartheid”. Everyone who thinks they understand the dynamics of the region should read both. Unless of course you buy into the concept that God ordained that this particular piece of the desert is yours because it says so in the Bible. In which case, never mind.

  138. Tex, are you aware that YOU just used “Jesus” and “asshole” in the same sentence! How dare you engage in such blasphemy?

    Where’s your shirt? Did you purchase that Herod that you thought so funny?

  139. Re: #169 –

    I have no admiration for any modern Arabic society, so I don’t understand the relevance of your questions. But surely you know that most of the anti-Jewish policies of predominantly Muslim nations originated during and after the unpleasantness in 1948.

    As you sow….

  140. Fake,

    Anybody that would read the Jew hater’s Jimmy Carter as an authority on Middle East tells me about what I need to know concerning everything else they may quote as fact.

    And I think you need to recheck who you should aspire to. If you’ll reread, you will find the name of Jesus; not Tex. 😉

  141. “Jesus loves me…. but everyone else thinks I’m an asshole.”

    (Just so everyone knows what shirt we are talking about.)

    I was going to buy that shirt for YOU, Tex. The only reason that I didn’t was that I didn’t think you would give me an address where I could send it to you.

    If you want one, I will still be happy to order one for you. Whoever thought it up surely had you in mind.

    What’s your size? Small or medium? 😀

  142. What’s your size? Small or medium?

    I couldn’t give you my address because dirty old men aren’t welcome in the neighborhood.

    However, I thought you could give it to me personally. Make sure you find the smallest size. I’ve given you the offer to meet me at a mutually convenient location so you could demonstrate your manly instincts, but you haven’t taken me up on my offer yet.

    Have we gone around enough now that you can show me what a tough guy you are Rambo? 🙂

  143. Unless of course you buy into the concept that God ordained that this particular piece of the desert is yours because it says so in the Bible. In which case, never mind.

    She’s perfect for you Gray… 😈

  144. “Any Arab country which gives those rights to Christians?”

    Lebanon.

    Graychin, don’t kid yourself. Jordan treats its Palestinian refugees like shit.

    Regarding Hamas, they were elected because of their social programs and because they ran on a platform of “change and reform” of the highly-corrupt PNA. Since they have taken control of Gaza, they have ruled with an iron fist and I doubt we would see Hamas win 74 seats again.

    “Chief psycho being Osama Bin Laden. That said…how is it that a complete idiot like him has attracted so many followers?”

    Globalization, franchising and messaging. AQ are masters at all 3.

  145. Palestinian parents teaching new generations…it is all those evil Jews that are to blame. Here Fake – make sure you add this to your vast repertoire of Jewish grievances.

  146. “And I think you need to recheck who you should aspire to. If you’ll reread, you will find the name of Jesus; not Tex.” 😉

    That’s for sure. But anyone who wears his religion on his sleeve really ought to consider the consequences of asshole-ish behavior that gives his religion a bad name.

    “You mean that Christianity will change my life, just as it did for Tex Taylor?”

    No thanks. Wouldn’t wanna be like you.

  147. I couldn’t give you my address because dirty old men aren’t welcome in the neighborhood.

    You need to replaced your postman and UPS driver.

    Have we gone around enough now that you can show me what a tough guy you are Rambo?

    Never outgrew the schoolyard bully phase, did you?

  148. Would that be the loving Lebanese that keep the Palestinian Arabs in camps and allow paramilitary groups to rule over the PalArabs there? Refuse them citizenship?

  149. “I’m shocked! But that wasn’t the point.”

    So are you going to let us know what the point was or do I have to keep guessing?…lol.

  150. Jimmy Carter hates Jews? I wish someone had told me earlier. Then maybe I would not have read his book. And I would pay no attention to the fact that he travels the world making sure elections are fair. Democracy is ugly and messy…but I’m okay with it.
    Zionism is an idea that Christians embraced beccause they thought it would hasten the End of Days. Why you would want to do that is sort of beyond me…but whatever. I’m okay with you hastening your own personal End of Days, but not my own.

  151. Two bronze stars for meritorious service in eleven months with a petite shirt for me? It would be a walkover…

    Oh Graychin, I must admit of all the phony blowhards with illusions of grandeur I meet on the internet, your heroic claims of greatness amuse me the most.

    Never outgrew the schoolyard bully phase, did you?

    Is that why you married so late? 🙂 All the girls were taken?

  152. And I would pay no attention to the fact that he travels the world making sure elections are fair.

    Yeah, like the Venezuelan elections and Hugo Chavez. 🙄

    Zionism is an idea that Christians embraced beccause they thought it would hasten the End of Days. Why you would want to do that is sort of beyond me…but whatever.

    You spelled because wrong English instructor.You need to expand your boundaries and break away from the humanist meme. It makes you read like an utter moron.

    Christians can no move invoke the end of days than we could save your miserable soul. It’s done out of obedience, a covenant with one man and Our God, and if you need a selfish reason, look up Genesis 12:2-3.

    You don’t know a thing about the Bible, do you Fake?

  153. Huck, the point was in response to Tex’s allegation that the neighboring Arabs hadn’t done anything for the Palestinians to get them out of the camps overseen by Israel.

    Except take them in by the gazillions.

  154. Indeed, Gray. We should all let Tex be our guide 🙂 I know the Bible extremely well. My grandmother used to get a newsletter from her church every week wih a quiz. She and I would do the quiz together, while everyone else in my family rolled their eyes at us. I loved her, and I wanted her to be happy. She was completely sure that there was a heaven, and she was going there. I would never have told her I thought it was complete voodoo.

  155. Nothing pisses a “Christian” off so much as someone who knows the Bible but doesn’t believe the same parts of it that he has picked out for belief.

    Start quoting the parts that he ignores, and his certain response is “God is gonna get you for that!”

    Remind you of anyone we know? 😀

  156. Christians can’t hurry the “end of days”? That would come as a surprise to a lot of Christians who know the Bible at least as well as Tex Taylor.

    Can you name one Graychin? One that believes Christians can invoke the end of days?

    Otherwise, it’s your normal baloney routine because if you two Bible scholars knew anything then you would know Christ said, “Only the Father knows.”

    So exactly how do Christians invoke the end of days again?

    Otherwise, I’ll need to keep calling you a lonely liar.

  157. “Except take them in by the gazillions”

    No time to read all the comments. But Greychin, you do know what the Jordanians did to the Palestinians don’t you?

  158. I know the Bible extremely well. My grandmother used to get a newsletter from her church every week wih a quiz. She and I would do the quiz together, while everyone else in my family rolled their eyes at us. I loved her, and I wanted her to be happy. She was completely sure that there was a heaven, and she was going there. I would never have told her I thought it was complete voodoo.

    I’m telling you Graychin that you ought to dump the “EXECUTIVE SEAMSTRESS” and propose. This one is perfect for you. Heretical, “REALLY” deep, another “EXECUTIVE”, and lonely.

    She might even like to fish.

  159. I don’t know what it is. But Liberals refuse to learn the history of the middle east. Maybe it’s because I’ve lived amongst Arabs my whole life, but it feels like everyone who deems themselves educated enough to spout off about Israel should know a basic narrative of the region.

  160. Rabbit, you want a good laugh? Read comment #189. The lumberjack is eating mushrooms again…

    …the water boy is still bragging about his heroic 4th quarter drives exploits.

    ♪ ♫One pill makes you larger, and one pill makes you small….♪ ♫

  161. Fake and Graychin remind me so much of the absolute emptiness of that Vietnam generation.

    With their life winding down, they still don’t understand they aren’t going to live forever…

  162. Nothing pisses a “Christian” off so much as someone who knows the Bible but doesn’t believe the same parts of it that he has picked out for belief.

    Really? I don’t care if you believe it, or not. I don’t care even if you try to misconstrue its meaning. But you sure do get pissed off when I use it to pass judgment on you.

    Start quoting the parts that he ignores, and his certain response is “God is gonna get you for that!”

    Can you provide examples of this for Fake’s benefit – those parts I ignore?

  163. 1. Has anyone seen some of the money trails of these useless machines? Bipartisan wallet rape!
    2. These machines are an absolute waste and just like so many overt security measures they will not make us safer. Overt measures are a joke for those that are looking to terrorize.
    3. Case in point that profiling alone would likely go the longest in assuring our collective safety is the breaking case of the “Christmas Tree Bomber”. This jihadi wannabe is easily picked out with profiling. Sadly for this case what we’ll learn is that at the cost of 100’s of thousands we can “easily” entrap peons after months of multi-agency operations. It is also to be added that this guy wasn’t gonna use a plane,train or bus.
    4. Which brings us to why exactly there has been so little on the terror front and what actions have occurred look the way they do. Groping little boys and virtual rape by under-educated hacks is never gonna be the answer folks.

  164. From the Post:
    Rutherford point #3

    The real problem here (and with the scanner) is America’s extremely messed up mentality about our bodies and sexuality in general. We are the most repressed bunch of closet porno watchers on the planet. I seriously doubt the French would bat an eye at these procedures.

    I kinda think this pretty stupid. First, the problem isn’t our sex& sexuality issues its our damn privacy and Constitution issues. Second is that France is gonna have machines at 2 airports and they’re for US bound passengers.
    #5

    The procedure violates your rights. I really love this one because I get to toss this one in the face of my nutty “constitutional scholar”-cum-tea party fanatics.

    Using your “logic” you better NEVER EVER F$%^ING EVER do a post on speed traps,stop and frisk and security guards following people in department stores.That’s the precedent you’ve set.
    #6

    Shouldn’t we do everything we can to make it difficult for a dangerous nutjob to board a plane?

    Yes! Profile profile profile. Otherwise you’re whistling pass the cemetery gates and fooling only yourself R.
    I’d say more but I’ll wait until I see something that proves it not be an exercise in futility.

  165. Tex, I don’t know what to say about Greychin’s bragging about being a war hero. I guess I can only assume he is in fact one of the 64 people to receive the two medals that he claimed.

    Sheer ignorance by Greychin, word for word; “How can you say that the other “Arab countries” didn’t do enough?” The Arab countries made fucking WAR with the Palestinians (and vice versa). The Jordanians killed more Palestinians then in both intafadas combined.

  166. Let me get this straight…re post # 200. As soon as those of us who went through Vietnam are dead, reason and normalcy will return to the planet? What a bunch of armchair strategists you are.

  167. That just ranks right up there with the idea that the “problem” with Vietnam is that we didn’t go in with superior force and bomb them off the face of the planet. Do any of you crybaby weasels understand why we did not do that? Right now, we could go wipe out Iran or North Korea. Do any of you get why we do not? I doubt it. Because being subtle is not only not your strong point, it isn’t even in your repertoire. I am so disgusted.

  168. “What’s your size, small or medium?”-greychin

    The Rabbit is going to be honest and admit he laughed at this line for some reason.

  169. Thank God (?) that I come from a family of men who served in the military, and who were brave and self-effacing…not waving their dicks around. Some of you are complete idiots, and you know who you are. Let me repeat…I am so disgusted.

  170. What a nice young man that Somalian immigrant is. Get to this country, go to a great college and then..blow up Christmas. Anyone who claims Islamic Radicalism is born out of the desperation of poverty simple refuses to acknowledge who the terrorists are in real life. A bunch doctor’s sons and educated elites, for the most part.

  171. Rabbit. #211. What point is it that you are trying to make? That rich Arabs can be terrorists? We kind of already knew that. Osama Bin Laden was a millionaire…but no longer, because his family has abandoned him and seized his assets. Assuming he is still alive, he is living in some cave in Pakistan, like an abandoned dog. A better analogy might be that he is a rat…despised by all, and subject to being killed on sight, I personally think his influence has waned, which is truly the best outcome you could get. What would you prefer? To shoot him? Or to watch him be humiliated in the eyes of his followers? I like Plan B. I used to hope we would find and kill him . Now I hope we will find him and trap him in his cave and starve him to death, so that his followers get to see just exactly what the results are of being evil .

  172. So I was about to say, what is it about the women on BiW’s blog that is different? My guess was that they are conservative.

    BINGO!!!

    I can only think of two women who frequent BiW’s blog so let’s not fool ourselves that it has a huge female commenting contingent. The two I’m thinking of are Nastassia (name perhaps misspelled) whose religious devotion scares the living crap out of me and I’ve told her so. It’s been a long time since we’ve interacted but she has said things that truly border (if not cross the line) on lunacy.

    The other is Cathy, a very popular commenter and a blogger in her own right. Cathy is quite civil so long as she doesn’t think you are condescending to her. I’ve found that liberal men (me and Dan to name two) get accused of this rather quickly in the exchange. I finally realized after many exchanges with her that she reminds me of Peggy Noonan (whom I think was Reagan’s old speech writer). Peggy speaks with an air of total self-confidence in the correctness of her positions. So does Cathy. Unlike some of the brutes who inhabit BiW’s world (Agile Dog to name one), Cathy at least makes an attempt at civility but the end result is that you’re wrong and she’s right.

    I’m sure Tex (and BiW for that matter) will disagree with my assessment.

    P.S. I actually have a major soft spot for Dick. He has a vicious wit, perhaps surpassing Tex since he adds an element of true menace to the mix, but for some reason we got to the point where we more or less got along. I wish he would visit here now and then but I hear he’s busy actually making money … good for him! 🙂

  173. Zionism is an idea that Christians embraced beccause they thought it would hasten the End of Days.

    Now this whole end of days thing is not my strong point but I AM amused by Christian’s vociferous defense of Israel when Jews are NOT going to Heaven! So yes, the Christian interest in Israel has ulterior motives that have nothing whatsoever to do with the welfare of the Jewish people.

    I’d look to Huck or Gray or FN2 to give me the more precise scoop on this but I know this Christian defense of Israel among devout Christians has something fishy about it.

  174. Using your “logic” you better NEVER EVER F$%^ING EVER do a post on speed traps,stop and frisk and security guards following people in department stores.That’s the precedent you’ve set.

    I can live with that precedent Alfie.

    This is a question of boundary. Since 9/11 folks have been getting wanded and patted down on a regular basis. Suddenly (under Obama) a boundary has been reached. BiW talks about unlawful search. What the hell has been going on for the past 9 years? Every time I go to the airport, my leg braces set off the buzzer and I get patted down. I don’t feel I’m being unlawfully searched.

    This is absolutely ridiculous.

  175. Regarding the Somalian Xmas bomber from BiW’s neck of the woods, I’d like to point something out to you folks … something that I admit is rare but very refreshing. Muslims in the region helped law enforcement catch this guy. Muslims publicly and vocally condemned the man once he was arrested.

    This is the kind of behavior we should be expecting from patriotic Muslims. I for one was very pleased to finally see evidence of it.

  176. The pats are different now and the scanners are what they are. Also the “sniffers” seem to have been a waste of money and that is a sore spot for me. My toddler was put through one but not any of the rest of us,and the Indian with a briefcase…nothing!

    Also for my last word on this post I’ll share something from Al Qaeda’s international English language propaganda maggie Inspire

    “Two Nokia phones, $150 each, two HP printers, $300 each, plus shipping, transportation and other miscellaneous expenses add up to a total bill of $4,200. That is all what Operation Hemorrhage cost us… On the other hand this supposedly ‘foiled plot’, as some of our enemies would like to call [it], will without a doubt cost America and other Western countries billions of dollars in new security measures.”

  177. Sorry….

    I can live with that precedent Alfie.

    Then you just stopped being a liberal,progressive Rutherford,for you personally AQ et al have won.That is truly sad.

  178. “something that I admit is rare”

    It’s not rare among the Lebanese Shi’ite population here in Michigan. Its just that they have no voice. They work 150 hours a week behind bullet proof glass selling smokes and booze (Just like my Gran-Pappy did when he got here)

    It’s these upper middle class Muslims with college educated parents. Different story. Way too many of them are radicalized and secretly applaud Al Queda. I don’t get it.

  179. But Alfie…how could you say that. Rutherford waited until Obama spoke on the issue. If Great One said it’s cool, then it’s cool. Rutherford bleated like the little mangy sheep he is, requesting Dear Leader to provide guidance. That has been done already. So, seriously, quit being sexually repressed.

  180. I see Almighty, Fearless Graychin still hasn’t answered my very simple questions about his accusations (baseless).

    Graychin? Graychin? Bueller? Bueller?

    Fake,

    That comment about grandma quizzing you, therefore you were “very knowledgeable” actually made me laugh out loud. Do you have any idea how naive that makes you sound?

  181. Rutherford,

    I will readily admit a bit of sexism when it comes to female libs.

    Not to the degree say I reserve for a wretched, pompous ass like Graychin, who I believe represents some of the absolute worst in humanity. But I do hold a degree of double standard as I have even less patience with most whiny, progressive women.

    And it is because they’ve caused so many unneeded and unnecessary problems in America, trying to lower everyone into their miserable, unhappy world. Rabbit nailed the description of liberal women from above. They generally are so unpleasant to be around, you can’t please them.

  182. Personal experience is in fact a poor sort of example. I’d be interested to know the source of the allegation that Jordan has treated the Palestinians badly. I have not “lived around Arabs all my life”, but I will give this personal example. An employee who works for me is Palestinian, but he was born in Kuwait. His parents (depending on how you want to portray it) either “fled” or were “displaced from” Palestine when Israel was created. In Kuwait, you could never achieve citizenship unless you could prove that someone in your family emigrated to the country prior to 1920 or so (i.e., specificially excluding Palestinians who were displaced by the creation of Israel.) This man and his family fled Kuwait when Saddam invaded, and went to Jordan. Where they were able to become citizens, vote, get an education, get good jobs, marry, have children, including daughters who are permitted to….drive cars.
    I realize this is anecdotal. One personal encounter does not make a movement. But I have attempted to educate myself in other ways, chiefly by reading, and I don’t know of any other way to do it (unless possibly by having a blinding vision on the road to Damascus). But in my case, nothing will do as a source. Jimmy Carter is a Jew hater; the NY Times is a Communist propaganda machine, CBS News is controlled by the likes of that dyke Katie Couric who hates Sarah Palin because she’s beautiful. And so on, and so on, and so on.

  183. With absolutely no misogeny intended Fake:
    Personal experience is in fact a poor sort of example.
    I disagree.
    I’d be interested to know the source of the allegation that Jordan has treated the Palestinians badly
    Google Black September for starters. Also my earlier UN link shows a lack of citizenship and rights and in fact shows that the host nations really do little without the UN $ and actions.

  184. But in my case, nothing will do as a source. Jimmy Carter is a Jew hater; the NY Times is a Communist propaganda machine, CBS News is controlled by the likes of that dyke Katie Couric who hates Sarah Palin because she’s beautiful.

    A textbook case of confirmation bias; one of those logical fallacies libs always drag out to appear well read and intellectual.

    Seek sources that meet your politically correct notions. I wonder if it ever dawns on this well versed woman everything she has chosen as source is going in the toilet. Carter, probably worst Ex-President ever; NYT going in the dink; Katie Couric rating hit all-time low.

    About 10 years behind the times…

  185. Shannon Bream and Julie Banderas are simply babes…

    I’d watch FOX News just to look at the women. MSNBC has Butch Maddow. Lovely. 😆

  186. Alfie…thanks. I will look. I neither detected nor inferred any misogyny in your comment 🙂 The Misogyny Meter didn’t even register a blip.
    But while I’m on that topic…I’ve been meaning to respond to comment #58. I’m sorry…but that comment just completely creeped me out. I don’t get its point or its relevance, unless Tex is trying to say that helping the birth of his daughter caused him to look into the frightening maw of the female anatomy, which proves he doesn’t really hate women. Or something? And not to mention, the vile and unnecessarily graphic portrayal of (male) gay sex in comment #156. I could go on….But in general…all commenters on the Internet should not be treated as equal. Some of them are sick.

  187. Do I have to decipher everything for you Fake? Are you really that stupid?

    My point was dummy that having a baby is much more revealing than having a breast examination. In many, if not most parts of the world, a woman’s breasts aren’t even considered titillating or private. Your “horror” story was not that “horrible” at all and certainly not equivalent to being groped at an airport.

    And as far as my graphic interpretation as example of what two men are doing in the bedroom, I hope your comment proves that libs hide from real truth, just like they do about what transpires during an abortion.

    You try to act prudish and modest, but I find you pretentious as hell. A complete and utter phony like Graychin.

  188. One other thing Phony Fake. If you’re so normal and I”m such a creep, why is my life so “normal” and yours such a mess?

    You’re living a lie….

  189. This is a question of boundary. Since 9/11 folks have been getting wanded and patted down on a regular basis. Suddenly (under Obama) a boundary has been reached. BiW talks about unlawful search. What the hell has been going on for the past 9 years? Every time I go to the airport, my leg braces set off the buzzer and I get patted down. I don’t feel I’m being unlawfully searched.

    This is absolutely ridiculous

    Wanding and stationary metal detectors will actually find, you know, metal. They are also non-intrusive. No one oogles the passengers or feels them up. You simply walk through. If you forgot to take off your belt, you get wanded and when it beeps over your belt buckle, everyone knows what it is. Yanking my crank isn’t going to find metal that the metal detectors missed (because they don’t miss metal), nor would it find explosives a la the Fruit of Kaboom bomber from last Christmas. Ditto for the RapeScan. Especially as they are not uniformly applied. But they do treat those chosen for the extra scrutiny in a manner that would be completely unacceptable in any other context, and being stopped and wanded for metal leg braces is not an affront to dignity. It is an examination of the obvious. Having a stranger feel you up or look at your third nipple on a RapeScan when you didn’t choose a career or hobby in exhibitionism is, especially without probable cause or a warrant.

  190. Are you going to admit that abortion is not “murder,” amend your silly definition of “murder,” or sneak away as quietly as possible hoping that no one will notice? Most likely the last of those – it’s what you do most often. Anything but hear the ice cracking beneath you, Mr. Commerce Clause.

    Don’t break your arm patting yourself on the back. I had to go to work yesterday due to some tight deadlines in the coming week.

    By the way – in response to your throwaway line, it isn’t about saving an insignificant fish or a bird. It’s about saving a unique ecosystem about to be lost to Planet Earth for all eternity. But that’s a subtlety I wouldn’t expect you to be willing to try to grasp – it would be disturbing to you if it didn’t fit into your ideologie über alles mindset. Besides, it’s much less effort to be mentally lazy and hang onto snail darters and spotted owls as symbols rather than engage in a real discussion.

    I have news for you, and I’m speaking not as a lawyer, but the son of a science teacher who spent far too much of his youth learning more about biology then many people get in a lifetime: Species disappear every day. Many times without ever coming in contact with humanity. But even for those who have disappeared due directly to contact with humanity, like the passenger pigeon, you might take note that the world’s ecosystem hasn’t collapsed. There was no catestrophic change that threatened all life on Earth, and your psuedo concern wouldn’t sound so nearly as hollow if you were passionately committed to other actions that destroy habitats and species, like the switching of ballast water from ocean going ships when they reach the Great Lakes, which has caused the decimation of native species of fish, and led to infestations of zebra mussels which have no natural preditor in the lake waters.

    And it is quite a stretch to call a fertilized egg in its first 48 hours of existence a “baby” and the corpus delecti of the the crime of “murder.” Use of emotionally-laden language is another phony dodge you like to use to avoid looking at things objectively.

    So having a unique human genetic code isn’t enough to confer humanity, and allow for the basic protections of human life conferred in our national charter? Please. Put your keen and insightful mind to work and tell us, what makes a human being human? When should the protection of law actually apply?

  191. See, Tex, this just proves that it is possible to goad you, and you thought you were the master of it. I judge you only by your comments. I have absolutely no idea about your life, and whether it is “normal” or not. Therefore, I would never dream of saying your life is a mess, because I have no way of knowing that. I don’t care if you dress only in a loincloth, sleep in the fork of a tree every night, and eat a live squirrel for breakfast every morning. I only care about what you say. Are you beginning to get an inkling of where I’m going with this? Instead of confining yourself to disagreeing with me, you’ve created an entire imaginary persona for me, right down to my appearance and my level of happiness. And the reality is, Tex, you have no clue about my life whatsoever. So that is why I say you’re sick. Honestly, you need help.

  192. It’s almost always a mistake to wade into the abortion discussion, but you know, what the heck. A fetus is a “baby” when it is born, and can survive outside the womb. Prior to that, it’s a potential human rather than an actual one. Now then…a recent argument I read noted that due to advances in medicine, fetuses can survive outside the womb (and thus become “babies”) at earlier and earlier ages. And I’m completely okay with that…my definition is unchanged. When we get to the point where four cells can live outside the womb on their own or with medical help, I might have to rethink. Meanwhile, those of you who insist that abortion should never be an option should prepare yourselves to adopt a lot of babies. Like…millions of them.

  193. And the reality is, Tex, you have no clue about my life whatsoever. So that is why I say you’re sick. Honestly, you need help.

    You’ve got an entire and feckless blog dedicated to who you are. From your “executive job” in the parking garage, to your locations, to your breast cancer story, you’ve provided everything in great detail for the world to read…

    You are one of the strangest people I’ve ever read on the net.

  194. And on another note, I think this is at least the second time BiW has mentioned the “third nipple” scenario. I actually know someone who has one! And while we haven’t talked about it, my guess is that she would be completely unfazed by the idea of someone seeing it on a scanner. Because here is what REALLY happens. When you have an “abnormality” or a disability, you become less sensitized to it…not more. Had I been the flight attendant mentioned here oh so long ago, I would have whipped that breast prothesis out in the blink of an eye. Who, really, gives a shit?
    Likewise, I am totally amused by the parsing of what is and isn’t invasive, and what is relatively invasive. Like you can have a scale of 1-10 for invasive. So, for example, to say that having a baby is “worse” in the humiliation department than having a breast exam? Actually…neither is humiliating. And I did not have a “breast exam”. I had breast CANCER. Two surgeries, two other biopsies, two CT scans, two MRI’s, and radiation for 7 weeks. So really, if some TSA worker wants to see my breasts for kicks, I could care less.

  195. Tex, I was waiting for that comment. From 3:24 P.M. to 4:11 is all it took. I was pretty sure that what little you do know about me would become fodder. I wish I could predict the stock market as well as I can predict your responses.

  196. Easily predicting my responses, but surprised, repulsed, sickened, and shocked at virtually all my comments? Uh huh.

    I don’t think it took a prophesier for you to determine on this thread alone you’ve contradicted yourself half a dozen times, and now you’re trying to save face by redirecting from the obvious inconsistencies.

    But you do goad me. Because debating with a fish mouth of limited nature like you is like having this big, fat, naked, lumpy ass bent over and parked right in front of my cowboy boot.

    You just beg to be bitch slapped, and I happily oblige. 😐

  197. Are you going to admit that abortion is not “murder,” amend your silly definition of “murder,” or sneak away as quietly as possible hoping that no one will notice? Most likely the last of those – it’s what you do most often. Anything but hear the ice cracking beneath you, Mr. Commerce Clause.

    And sneak away is exactly what Black = White has done at #239. He tried to direct the discussion away on a tangent; he neither admitted that abortion is not murder, nor amended his hopelessly flawed definition of murder. (You will recall that he admitted that four of the five examples of killing another human being that I offered were NOT murder in spite of fitting his definition.

    So, counselor – let’s try to put it in terms that perhaps you can understand and relate to. Let us take a case in point.

    The facts of the case are not in dispute. A 22-year-old woman, a lifelong resident of Oklahoma, has received an abortion during the sixth week of her pregnancy at an abortion provider which has been operating openly and, it is believed, legally in Tulsa, Oklahoma for at least thirty years. The District Attorney’s office has had the woman arrested and has charged her with the murder of the entity formerly residing in her uterus.

    What legal defense might her attorney propose for her?

  198. Here’s a little of my predictive capability Fake…

    I’m guess it’s been so long since somebody “fondled” those saggy things of yours, you might be buying a plane ticket as we speak hoping to win the TSA lottery.

  199. what makes a human being human? When should the protection of law actually apply?

    Is a sperm cell “human”? Of course it is. The only part of your question that is answerable is the second part – when should the protection of law apply to an embryo?

    Imprecise as it is, I believe that the “trimester” scheme adopted by the Supreme Court is one that I can support. It is no more arbitrary than any other scheme you might come up with.

    Since nature, or God, sees fit to spontaneously abort a high percentage of fertilized eggs (perhaps in the 30% to 50% range, that fact seems to me to mock the religious doctrine that all of those aborted embryos possessed immortal souls from the moment of conception. And that religious doctrine is at the heart of the “abortion is murder” movement. Not science – religion.

    Have I answered your question?

  200. Surprised, repulsed, sickened, and shocked. That about covers it. I do have a question. Are you proud of yourself? Do you think your language and your suggestions somehow enhance your image? Whatever you think your image is? Is this who you want to be Tex? Is this how you want people to think of you? Because I seriously doubt I’m the only person who is…let me just pick repulsed. That would definitely cover it.

  201. BIC,

    Using Graychin’s “scientific” analysis, it would appear to me that since men are not made immortal, murder should be okay. 😉

  202. Fakename, welcome to the theater of Tex Taylor’s sick pastime – making the most vicious personal attacks on liberal blog commenters that can muster based on the dossiers he builds on them. He’s fairly competent with The Google, and he has even made an exhaustive study of my thousands of comments from my past activity at the Tulsa World website in an effort to find dirt on me. He has mocked my wife and my mother, the part of the state where we live, even my military service. Sexual taunting is his specialty, but clearly he has a much larger repertoire of that for females than he does for males. Practice? (His male taunting is pretty much limited to his “gay” hangups.)

    But don’t let him fool you. There is nothing normal about his life. Nothing at all. You would laugh if you knew how abnormal his life really is. It’s even less normal than his sick, misanthropic personality and his bizarre beliefs in the literal truth of the likes of the Noah’s Ark story.

  203. Graychin…re: #246. Seriously? How is that even possible that you can arrest a person for this? Could you post a link to a story about it? I am stunned.
    And I thought Florida was bad. Which it sort of is, and is about to get worse. Here in Tallahassee, we have an (alleged) serial killer in jail, and he is finally about to go on trial next year. What is it about Tallhassee? You will recall that this is where Ted Bundy got caught. But I am terrified that I will be called up for jury duty in this case. If there is anyone who ever deserved to die, he is it, but I cannot do it. I guess I shouldn’t be that scared. As soon as they ask me if I could vote for the death penalty, I would say no, and that would be that. But it would not bother me at all if other people made that decision…talk about disconnects.

  204. BiC,

    Graychin has throughout his life placed himself in the position of God and it was learned from his own admitted racist mother. Don’t minimize the arrogance of his humanistic nature.

    He honestly thinks of himself as the arbiter of morality and it is based on his own set of convenient conclusions.

    It’s the foundation of everything he practices, everything he believes.

    His new game is to mock the Word and if you believe like you and I do, we’ve seen the end result. Let God sort it out.

  205. I would add BiC if you read closely to Fake’s responses of life’s most enduring questions, you will see the same amoral and bankrupt conclusions. Comparisons of Christianity and voodoo, for example.

    And it’s based on the same variables having to do with faith.

    That is the one thing that is truly predictable. Those that believe in their own goodness and own intellect will invariably reach the same conclusions these two wretched people have.

  206. Fakename: the case is hypothetical. It didn’t happen. I made it up. I want Black = White to comment about how a competent lawyer would defend such a person.

    I am opposed to the death penalty. I would like to see it abolished in all jurisdictions. The USA is in some unsavory company in continuing to apply the death penalty. Why doesn’t that give some pause to people who LOVE the death penalty? I have no idea.

    Nevertheless, there was a case perhaps 20 years ago in Oklahoma (where else?) where a guy hijacked a car from a young couple, then locked them in the trunk and set the car on fire. The couple died there in the trunk – from the fire.

    I think I would have voted for the death penalty in that case. I’m not always entirely logical.

  207. Poor Tex – another stab at my mother that misfires.

    My mother is conventionally religious. A good Christian in fact. Tex would approve very strongly of her religious views, her “thing” about black people and not being able to vote for Obama because of his blackness notwithstanding.

    I developed my theology in spite of my upbringing – not because of it. There is no one to blame for it but me.

    Recently I had a discussion about voodoo with someone I didn’t really know. I made the remark to her that I thought it was a bunch of nonsense. My wife said later that the remark was insensitive – that the person obviously was a believer in voodoo. She was probably right – about the person being a voodoo believer.

    Was my remark about voodoo insensitive? Was Fakename’s comparison of Christianity to voodoo insensitive? Did it mark her as “amoral and bankrupt”? Why?

    Does disbelief in Tex’s particular version of Christianity make someone “amoral and bankrupt”? He thinks so. And he has every right to his opinion, as well as to his own brand of superstitious nonsense. Just as that lady has a right to her “voodoo” brand of the same.

    Noah’s Ark? The Tower of Babel? The snake in the Garden? Jonah and the Great Fish? Fairy tales – every one. Allegorical – but fairy tales nevertheless.

  208. About that third nipple:

    I knew a guy in the Army who had extra nipples. He had a faint pair about 4-6 inches below his two “regularl” nipples, and another even fainter pair below those two. I don’t know if he had any more than that.

    Most mammals have more than two nipples. This guy must have had some throwback genes or something. Fortunately it wasn’t a big deal to him. He didn’t even mind showing them off.

    What does this multi-nippled man say about the fact of human evolution? Nothing at all. Right, Tex?

    I bet Tex would have teased the shit out of the guy – if he was a liberal.

  209. You mentioned all the stories of Genesis, even from the book of Jonah, but you failed to mention that you also deny Christ died on the cross for our sins, or that he was resurrected, or that it was necessary, or that Christ was divine. In fact, it would appear to me other than possibly some parts of the Sermon on the Mount, you seem to deny about all of it.

    By the way, I didn’ t say all of those listed allegory or metaphor. I simply said some of the Bible is obvious allegory and metaphor. It also contains simple good advice found in Proverbs, Ecclesiastes and Song of Solomon.

    I no more believe the story of your mother than I do of your greatness. It’s a legacy of amoral bankruptcy straight out of little Dixie. I would guess your daughter cut out of the same cloth, though I noticed she moved as far from you as possible, so it may simply be she saw you two for what you are and scadaddled far, far away. 😉

    ——————

    So let’s see if you have the gonads to answer a few of my questions about your scientific know how – those theories that would seem to contradict the Bible.

    About how we are glorified apes that have lost our hair?

    Why is that when man migrated out of Africa that they all seemed to develop their own language – even those countries that are separated by only a mountain range? Could they not communicate with anything but guttural grunts when they walked out of the desert?

    And exactly when did that happen? Can you give me a time and place?

    Or why does every civilization of antiquity have a “myth” of a great flood? Where did all those cities buried under a 1,000 feet of water in the Black Sea come from? That’s now documented fact.

    Explain to me again how inorganic clays became organic? Or why our MHC compatibility, the most conserved gene in “evolution” is much closer to porcine than simian? I’ve never gotten an answer to my satisfaction and that is never addressed in literature.

    Isn’t about time you started to answer some of these questions with your profound scientific know how oh wise and wonderful Graychin.

  210. Regarding 247, Tex … good God man, do you actually read what you write before hitting the “Post Comment” button? The only reason 247 is not offensive is that it sounds like a ten year old wrote it.

    You know, for all the psychobabble I’ve read on this blog about how conservative women un-nerve me, I have to say that I think liberal women really screw with your head in some unusual ways. I mean, yes …. you do resort every now and then to calling Graychin “gay” but for the most part you hit him hard ideologically. But your ideological attacks against FN2 have been few and far between. You are 90% relying on the sexual taunts of an adolescent.

    You know full well that if your wife saw you online conjecturing on who fondles whose breasts she’d kick your ass so hard you need to buy her a new pair of pumps. Raise your game dude. FN2 shouldn’t even be insulted at this point. She should just be shaking her head in disbelief that a grown man is talking like this on the Internet. 😐

  211. Your knowledge of Embryology Graychin is a little weak. In fact, I haven’t found your particular strength yet. It’s kind of like your opinions in your reasoning of abortion…

    So let’s stay with your favorite subject – infanticide.

    What if someone brought up these arguments to justify the killing of an infant: “The baby was conceived through rape” – “The infant is deformed and mentally handicapped” – “The mother’s health is suffering as a result of her baby.” Would you justify any of these in killing an infant?

    Your morally bankrupt enough you might but most abortion on demand proponents would not. So why don’t we admit is that these objections are insincere and that the heart of the matter is whether the fetus is a living human or not.

    So I’ll assume you’ll admit a fetus not a living form?

  212. FN2 I’ve said this to you privately but I’ll repeat it here. Tex is as far as I know in possession of his faculties. If I could figure out what triggers the Tourettes like behavior, I could stop worrying financially and open a clinic and make some good money.

  213. Oh Rutherford,

    You’re as phony and as lost as Fake is.

    There isn’t a bigger pervert on the internet, so don’t scold me for making some off the wall comment concerning Fake’s own commentary about a lack of nookie.

  214. By the way, I’m still snickering about Graychin’s wife nagging him about voodoo.

    Can you imagine how shitty it must be to live in that household walking on egg shells having to measure every word around some politically correct shrew? Unless you’re cussing God, then it’s a series of yuck yucks.

  215. Rutherford, this argument is based on a false premise:

    you do resort every now and then to calling Graychin “gay” but for the most part you hit him hard ideologically. But your ideological attacks against FN2 have been few and far between. You are 90% relying on the sexual taunts of an adolescent.

    There is so little to Fake, what would you have me “hit her hard” ideologically? It’s like debating Joy Baher…there is absolutely no depth there pal. What’s her communication? Trying to get me banned? 😆

    Dang Rutherford, even you ought to know a nagging victim when you read one. Like I said last night, she is the one person on this blog that plays both insulter and victim in the same post.

    You would be doing us both a favor by banning me.

    Rabbit is right – you need to be the impetus for me to get back to breaking this horrid habit of watching TV with the tablet in my lap on the Rutherford Lawson blog. You and I can take it up another place where I can get away from Graychin and Fake and resort back to being a little more civil.

    Just do IT! 🙂

  216. “Personal experience is in fact a poor sort of example. I’d be interested to know the source of the allegation that Jordan has treated the Palestinians badly.”-fakename

    Oh man. Wow.

    This is frustrating. I don’t know what bothers me more: That greychin and fakename have exposed themselves to be so amazingly ignorant or that they just go on typing away, ignoring the massive hole in even basic middle eastern history once its been pointed out.

    I wasn’t trying to say that because I live among Arabs I’m aware of some nuanced and special inside info on arab relations!!!!!

    I meant that certain historical narratives of the middle east are as known to me as, say, the causes of World War II!

    I’m sorry folks. You can’t be so blatantly ignorant and then just go on with straight face arguments on the middle east. What would be so wrong with saying, “You know what, I’m shelving my entire take on Israel and Palestine until I at least learn the most basic of historical events”?.

    Greychin and Fakename. The Jordanians killed more Palestinians during Black September then in either intifada combined! COMBINED. In fact, if we are to believe the Palestinians, the Jordanians killed more Palestinians then in all the Israeli-Palestinian conflicts combined!

    It’s getting sensico like up in here.

  217. I know Graychin. But you can’t protect yourself from the likes of Tex. A person who makes it a mission to mispresent and destroy you really can’t be stopped unless he (or she) does something overt and physical. It really never occurred to me that I would be faced with someone like this, so my early and even ongoing Internet interactions have been blissfully ignorant. Now that I do know, I don’t really plan to change…along the lines of not letting the terrorists win 🙂
    I was already quite sure that his life is not normal. You just can’t be that crazy and lead a normal life. What Tex wants is for other people to accept him, to be equally validated. So that has pretty much been my complaint. It’s not about free speech, it’s about saying Dude…get help. I’m not personally going to go hang myself in the closet because Tex is mean, but Tex is the kind of guy who would relentlessly drive someone to that sort of thing. And would be proud of it. If you hang yourself, that proves that Tex is the Alpha Dog.

  218. Wow – you guys were really busy since I last checked in an hour or so ago!

    First – for Rutherford: you do resort every now and then to calling Graychin “gay” but for the most part you hit him hard ideologically.

    Not exactly. Well over half of Tex’s comments directed at me are personal, not ideological – but who’s counting? Just this afternoon he has gone after my mother, my daughter and my wife – a trifecta!

    I don’t need any defending, but I do appreciate you calling Tex out for his really disgusting sexual comments towards FN. As much as he hates me, he treats her even worse. I have no idea why. Maybe he hates women or something. Like I said earlier, that kind of nasty abuse takes practice to perfect, and Tex has clearly had lots of practice with it.

  219. Tex, I remain torn on the mortgage when it comes to guilt.

    I can’t believe they won’t make a deal with me. It’s insane. They just make no sense.

    They agree with me that I qualify for a mortgage re modification. They even told me my foreclosure is stopping…..the same week someone else said its going forward.

    I just don’t get it. I’m willing and able to come to terms with them for just something resembling a reasonable offer. It could be win/win. But, it’s like they are just too bogged down to even make the deal happen.

    So, my game of chicken continues. They are going to end up with an abandoned property on their hands soon if they don’t hurry up.

    That’s when you know its bad. The issue isn’t me ever getting kicked out by the sheriff. Far from it. The issue is me reluctantly staying here.

  220. By the way, I didn’ t say all of those listed allegory or metaphor. I simply said some of the Bible is obvious allegory and metaphor.

    That’s right. The last time we visited this subject, you were evasive about which stories were literal truth and which were allegories. As I recall, your list of purely allegorical stories was very short. Please list them for me.

    Did humans evolve from other ape-like critters, or were they specially created? Which?

  221. I’ll take a swing at some of your silly questions now.

    Why is that when man migrated out of Africa that they all seemed to develop their own language – even those countries that are separated by only a mountain range? Could they not communicate with anything but guttural grunts when they walked out of the desert? And exactly when did that happen? Can you give me a time and place?

    Language changes gradually. Chaucer’s English is unintelligible to modern English speakers – just 1,000 years or so later. What is the exact time and place when that happened? It’s a really stupid question to ask, isn’t it. Because it happened gradually.

    French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, and numerous other languages that now are mutually unintelligible are all evolved from the Latin of the Romans. That much change in only 2,000 or so years!

    How likely is it languages will become mutually unintelligible when populations speaking are separated by a mountain range and isolated from each other? Very likely. Very quickly.

    And you need at Tower of Babel to explain all this? You’re just nuts. The observable natural explanation is much better than the magical one you like.

    Or why does every civilization of antiquity have a “myth” of a great flood? Where did all those cities buried under a 1,000 feet of water in the Black Sea come from? That’s now documented fact.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_theory

    Is that theory really harder to believe than the story that it rained for forty days and forty nights, and that Noah saved all animal life on the planet by building an ark to hold it? Is it really?

    Explain to me again how inorganic clays became organic? Or why our MHC compatibility, the most conserved gene in “evolution” is much closer to porcine than simian? I’ve never gotten an answer to my satisfaction and that is never addressed in literature.

    Did inorganic clays become organic? I never heard of that before – what gave you that idea? “Organic” means a compound of carbon. Our carbon-containing soils are mostly decomposed plants. I have no idea what you are talking about in the rest of that paragraph.

  222. Rabbit: are expatriate Palestinians, so mistreated in the Arab countries to which they fled after 1948, attempting to migrate in large numbers back to Gaza and the other parts of Israel in which Palestinians are permitted to live?

    Why not?

  223. By the way, I’m still snickering about Graychin’s wife nagging him about voodoo.

    Can you imagine how shitty it must be to live in that household walking on egg shells having to measure every word around some politically correct shrew?

    Tex wouldn’t have a problem like that in his household. If the woman ever tried to correct his behavior, I suspect he would slap the bitch around a bit to remind her who is the boss.

    (Actually, my wife wound up agreeing with me about expressing my opinion of voodoo. We had a civil and interesting discussion about it. I doubt that such conversations occur very often in the Taylor household – if conversation occurs at all in an empty house.

  224. Graychin, I didn’t diss your daughter. I complimented her for getting as far away from you as possible.

    And you’ve never boxed me in because you’re not smart enough to box me in. Here’s another personal assault you can add to your list – your wife sounds like one nit-picking, hair-splitting dilettante nag and harpy. Damn, that story topped the list of obvious shrewdom.

    My life seems abnormal to you because you are abnormal – it’s you and the Mrs. and nobody else. Bet the grandkids hate it when they hear Granddaddy is coming to see them. You browbeat them too? That explains a lot why you moved to the lake because you had no friends to begin with in Tulsa. I guarantee it – you and your opinions would be in popular in South Tulsa as the plague. I’ve lived here my entire life, so I think I would know.

    ————–

    Allegory (for the 100th time) – The dragon from Revelation sweeping one third of the stars to earth; metaphor – faith like a mustard seed.

    You avoided my questions concerning Christ. You always do. Cat got your tongue?

    Did inorganic clays become organic? I never heard of that before – what gave you that idea? “Organic” means a compound of carbon. Our carbon-containing soils are mostly decomposed plants. I have no idea what you are talking about in the rest of that paragraph.

    Yes, I know. You have a lot of shortcomings in things you claim expertise. That is the working theory in the original origins of organic material dummy. I don’t think you know a damn thing concerning bio, but if you’re interested, you can look up abiogenesis. I’m not going to try and explain it to a neophyte hack pretending to be informed, because I don’t think you know the first thing about organic chemistry, RNA or anything else of biology for that matter – and I would happily put that to the test like – like I did with physics? Remember that one genius that made you mad?

    The rest of your answers made no sense. In fact, you’re telling me languages have blended or evolved. Yeah, Latin is dead. I’m not asking about the modern history of languages changed or evolved. I’m asking you how so many first developed from cultures not interrelated geographically or demographically. Because many of those languages date to the dawn of man and have absolute no derivation. None…

    You’re either faced with two choices. Either your theory of evolution happened in numerous places (the genome doesn’t support that and neither does your pet theory) and each tribe developed their own language, or our ancestors were so backward that they had no methods of written speech, though we have recorded methods of language over 8.000 years old, some still in use. Your time line doesn’t work.

    So where are these great civilizations of 20,000 years that predate the last ice age Graychin? I’d like some proof of these recent ancestors of ours. Because no one yet has been able to provide any definitive proof of man being around much more than 8,000 – 10,000 years. Where the genomes of these recent ancestors of ours? You and the National Geographic folks keep claiming related monkeys, lizards with feathers, neanderthals (you actually give me a little hope this might be true), etc…. 🙄

    Black Sea? Now, would that be the same Black Sea located in the known world of antiquity 7,500 years ago? Like in a catastrophic regional flood? Is it now called the Deluge? 😆

    Now let’s talk about specifics, because you conveniently avoided my MHC question – and I recognize you don’t know jackshit about cellular biology. So why don’t you research that one and get back with me?

    Because that one is light years beyond you and won’t be so easy to Google an answer so you can baffle us with your bullshit.

  225. if conversation occurs at all in an empty house.

    An empty house that had 26 people in it Thanksgiving… 🙄

    Thank God it is empty at this minute.

  226. Rabbit,

    What is really galling about your situation is that here in good faith you’re trying to work out a deal, and while you’re being given the run around, we have several million 462 days delinquent living large, on the public dole, at our expense.

    Don’t ask me. But Graychin wants to give them Health Care.

    Now do you see why I think the old fart is certifiable – the more time goes bye, the more time I’m not convinced he’s entirely lucid?

    Hell, he’s the last one left in America that still believes the Post Office is a model of efficiency. My own delivery guy stops me every time I see him at the mail box telling me how bad it is.

  227. Rabbit, ok I hate to reference “The View” as a source but I did see an interesting story Friday about a couple who apologized to their neighbors for their impending foreclosure and one of their neighbors invited them to move in with them. An interesting case of neighbors helping neighbors.

  228. Tex wouldn’t have a problem like that in his household. If the woman ever tried to correct his behavior, I suspect he would slap the bitch around a bit to remind her who is the boss.

    Do you know that is the first time you ever said anything I found funny? I’ll tell you what I believe would happen if I decided to slap the wife. I’d wake up one night brained with a frying pan, then my kids would light the house on fire with me in it.

    I’m surprised the “bitch” didn’t give a little thought to adopting it as her form of worship. Maybe that is why she was so offended.

  229. Come on, man….a massive hole in your history of the middle east.

    Massive.

    You had no clue about even the most basic of facts.

    You don’t have a problem with that? You really aren’t saying to yourself..”.I better educate myself more thoroughly”?

    How am I to take you seriously?

    If you don’t have a clue about Black September, your ignorance on the region is so glaring that there is no way you read up on the issue and came to your own conclusions. Instead, you are spewing party line.

    You want to be anti-Israel, pro-Palestinian? Vice-versa? Neither? Fine by me. But, damn….roll up your sleeves and get to that point on your own.

    To answer your question about the reception of Palestinians by Arab states since ’48…..that would depend on where and when.

    I already pointed out that the Palestinians claim that Jordan killed 20,000.

    FUCKING KILLED, DUDE!!!!.

    THAT IS MORE DEAD ARABS THEN IN BOTH INTIFADA #1 AND #2.

    A massive amount of Palestinian refugees were then kicked out of Jordan and sent to Lebanon…which sparked the Lebanese Civil War. You really need to read up on the Palestinian experience in Lebanon.

    I’m pretty sure Kuwait kicked out thousands of Palestinians during the First Gulf War.

    Seriously, it’s nothing to be embaressed about. You just don’t know shit about Palestine and have no business taking a side on the issue, son.

  230. Tex, what questions about Jesus do you want me to answer? I will be happy to comply, but this thread is getting very long. If you were talking about #258, I don’t see any questions about him there.

    The only Biblical allegory you could come up with was in Revelation? What about the Old Testament? Any allegory there? Any at all? I would really like to know just how far out there you really are. (You seem ashamed of your belief in the literal Old Testament stories. Why else would you be so evasive about it?)

    Evolution happened in all places at all times. It is still happening today – all around us. Our genomes are remarkably different than genomes of humans from 15,000 years old.

    no one yet has been able to provide any definitive proof of man being around much more than 8,000 – 10,000 years.

    That’s complete nonsense. You wouldn’t be willing to recognize “definitive proof” if it kicked you in your sorry butt.

  231. I am thankful that I did not have to eat my Thanksgiving dinner in the presence of Tex Taylor.

    Dontcha know – he’s the very icon of the nutty relative that everyone wishes would just go away when Thanksgiving comes around.

  232. ” like an abandoned dog. A better analogy might be that he is a rat…despised by all, and subject to being killed on sight”

    This is not accurate. Bin Laden’s family may have abandoned him but he has obviously not been abandoned or despised by everyone. To date there isn’t anyone giving him up for the $25,000,000 reward.

    “are expatriate Palestinians, so mistreated in the Arab countries to which they fled after 1948, attempting to migrate in large numbers back to Gaza and the other parts of Israel in which Palestinians are permitted to live?
    Why not?”

    Nobody in their right mind is attempting to go back to Gaza right now. Hamas is ruling with an iron fist (google video “Inside Hamas documentary” for a glimpse) and the economy is shattered. There is nothing positive going on there.

  233. Where in the world Graychin do you get your information? I still think it’s your National Geographic subscription.

    Evolution happened in all places at all times. It is still happening today – all around us. Our genomes are remarkably different than genomes of humans from 15,000 years old.

    What 15,000 year old genomes? We don’t have record of any human 15,000 year old genomes you dope.

    Our genomes are remarkably similar dummy. For all of the different phenotypes you witness today, there is less than .1% difference in the genotype of man. 🙄

    no one yet has been able to provide any definitive proof of man being around much more than 8,000 – 10,000 years.

    That’s complete nonsense. You wouldn’t be willing to recognize “definitive proof” if it kicked you in your sorry butt.

    😆 Where’s your definitive proof? Kick me in the butt and give it to me Einstein.

    You mean 20,000 year old “cave writings”? Come on, give me something definitive and provable. That’s pure speculation and fits the common theme of Darwinians such as yourself. By the way, if you were clued in that is now being discounted by biologists too. Adaptation is a whole lot more complicated than random mutation dunce.

    Now in interrogative format. Try to answer this one so we can put your charges to rest…

    You mentioned all the stories of Genesis, even from the book of Jonah, but you failed to mention that you also deny Christ died on the cross for our sins, or that he was resurrected, or that it was necessary, or that Christ was divine. In fact, it would appear to me other than possibly some parts of the Sermon on the Mount, you seem to deny about all of it.

    So I ask you Graychin, if Christ was indeed called Rabbi and taught from the Torah, why did He not deny the truth of Genesis? Why did He teach the same things Christians do today?

    You would also have to call Christ a liar, would you not?

  234. I am thankful that I did not have to eat my Thanksgiving dinner in the presence of Tex Taylor.

    Me too! 🙂 Did you cook yourself a turkey for you and the Mrs. at the big get together?

  235. You seem ashamed of your belief in the literal Old Testament stories. Why else would you be so evasive about it?

    How am I being evasive again? I’ve answered these questions on Genesis at least five times on this site alone. I will be more than happy to repeat my answers. But first to put this to rest for my sanity, answer my question above concerning Christ first while you’re googling for human genomes.

  236. Oddly enough, I have only just now remembered that it was this very weekend, 10 years ago, that I moved to Tallahassee. Does anyone remember what was going on then? Something about a presidential election and a recount. I could barely get to work for the satellite trucks. The police tried to control them but they were like, go ahead and give me a ticket. The network will pay it. The newspeople were sleeping in the trucks, and you would see them emerging in the early morning, yawning and barely dressed. At the time I was living in a brand new city and starting a brand new job…so at the time I sort of missed the part about living in an historic place and time. The trucks surrounded the FL Supreme Court, the Capitol, and the County Courthouse, where the ballots were being recounted until SCOTUS stopped it.
    The reason I thought of it today is that 60 Minutes did an interview with John Paul Stevens, who said, stopping the recount was wrong.
    If the satellite trucks weren’t enough, I also remember the protesters,deliberately stopping traffic, cursing, carrying sgns and screaming Bush won, get over it.

  237. fakename…I’m shocked…..you don’t want to talk about Israel and Zionism and Arabs anymore? Just water off a ducks ass?

  238. Hey guys…what’s the right wing take on the Tamil Tigers? No, no…I don’t give a damn about the history of Sri Lanka. Just tell me what I’m supposed to say so that I can spew bumper stickers at fakename and greychin about Tamil Tigers. I want to fit in.

    Actually…maybe we can make something like Uno Cards. That way, when a world conflict or controversy comes up….we just slam down the appropriate card to display our take on the issue. Or, maybe we could lay them all out in pairs and play memory.

    Or maybe, I could learn what the fuck as gone down in Sri Lanka before I spout off about the Tamil Tigers.

    Nahhhh….why bother.

  239. Rabbit,

    She still thinks the election was stolen after Satan’s brother Justice Rotten Paul Stevens could not dig up enough hanging chads to steal the election. He gave it every effort, though.

    Looks like Grayhunk hasn’t found what he needed on Google yet. He’ll be looking for months…

  240. There isn’t a bigger pervert on the internet, so don’t scold me for making some off the wall comment concerning Fake’s own commentary about a lack of nookie.

    Well I won’t argue too much with the first part of your sentence as I have been known to surf to a dubious site or two in my day, but the second part has totally lost me. When did FN2 ever make any statement as to not getting any “nookie”? Are you projecting again?

  241. Are you projecting again?

    Well, I prefer to call it ‘forecasting.’ Forecasting right off her feckless blog.

    She’s actively hunting for men (in the woods). I assumed she likes sex (in the woods). 🙂 Can’t knock her for that (with yours, not mine).

    I still think she’s found her true love on this site and I am trying to play matchmaker. It’s a match made in hell.

    What’s so puerile about surmising Fake keeps going to the back of the line to take another round with the TSA? She’s told us more about her breasts and her bra type that any of us cared to know.

    But your feigned outrage was about as facetious as anything I’ve witnessed you “project” here.

  242. Actually, Rabbit, I too am disappointed that neither FN2, Huck nor Gray has elaborated on Christian’s ulterior motives for supporting Israel. I asked back at 216 and hoped to see some elaboration. It’s one of my pet topics that I know just enough to be dangerous and would prefer to know more. 😉

  243. Okay Rutherford. Since I”ve gotten no answer from Blowhard the Biologist (snicker), I think I’ve accomplished my task today. He’s still googling what the heck is MHC.

    So I am going to attempt starting tomorrow and follow Rabbit’s very legitimate and very sound advice. I need desperately to break this bad habit of turning on the tube and waiting for responses on the infamous R.L. blog.

    Expect your comments to drop in half, but the site to be twice as peaceful. Consider it my Christimas present to you. 😉

    I’ll see you at BIC’s place if he posts something new.

    Talk to you before Christmas, or if something spectacular happens in the news.

    P.S. – #295; the only ulterior motives are the fact our religion is at least partially Jewish, we recognize Jerusalem as God’s throne, that we are commanded to support Israel, the belief that the first thousands of Christians were Jews, that the Jews were God’s chosen people, and the fact that Jews have been a blessing to all of man.

    Why is that you goons insist there must be some malevolent bearing on why Evangelicals are so adamant in support of Israel. That’s straight from God’s mouth to our ears. Grrrr…

  244. Way up the thread Alfie said:

    Then you just stopped being a liberal,progressive Rutherford,for you personally AQ et al have won.That is truly sad.

    This is amusing in a couple of ways. If I accept your premise Alfie (which I don’t) then you should rejoice in my losing my religion and abandoning my liberal/progressive ways. Nothing sad there at all, right? 😉

    But, as I said, I reject your premise. We live in a world of criminals where vigilance is a must. Let’s look at the examples you say should offend me:

    Speed traps — no problem, folks shouldn’t be speeding. If a cop car is hidden behind a bush with his radar gun clocking you and you get caught, you get what you deserve.
    Stop and frisk — this would depend on the circumstances and of the three things you listed it is the most distasteful to me. The basis upon which you are being stopped would be important in deciding whether I oppose the action or not.
    Security guards following people in department stores — I would have to qualify “people”. Yes if someone is behaving suspiciously, like they might be shoplifting, I have no problem with a security guard following them.

    Liberals who object to reasonable law enforcement procedures are idiots.

    I have been guilty in the past of using the rhetorical argument if we do X then the terrorists win. Truth is from a certain perspective, the terrorists win anyway. As I think has already been stated in this thread, if we take unreasonable measures and waste money, AQ laughs at us and hopes we bleed ourselves from within. If we do too little, AQ exploits the vulnerability and strikes us. if I have to choose, I choose the option that best minimizes loss of life.

  245. I don’t know that Kuwait kicked out Palestinians, but I can understand them leaving, because they had no protections. Whereas in Jordan. they were at least able to become citizens. And Rutherford…yes. It is entirely possible to expose ‘Tex” for the vicious, woman-hating
    troll that he is. It just takes a while, and it takes a willingness to put up with abuse that most womem are not willing to endurel

  246. Tex, answer me this, seriously, do Jews go to heaven? I thought only those who accept Jesus Christ as their savior go to heaven. Maybe I’m confused (wouldn’t surprise me) but I didn’t think Jews accepted Jesus Christ as their savior, nor do they believe in his resurrection. If they did, they wouldn’t be Jews, they’d be Christians. What did I get wrong here?

    As for FN’s blog …. dag if she’s talking about her sexual longings over there, I must not have read the blog too carefully. FN, are you churning out a mini Cosmo over there? 😉

    One article I do recall reading (unless my memory is playing games with me) is about an MRI machine run amok. The article was both poignant and humorous. There is a lot to be said for people who can write honestly about tough human challenges. It’s one of the things that makes blogging a noble pursuit.

    P.S. Tex “outrage” was your chosen word. You’ve been around here too long for anything you say to outrage me.

  247. So I ask you Graychin, if Christ was indeed called Rabbi and taught from the Torah, why did He not deny the truth of Genesis? Why did He teach the same things Christians do today?”

    It isn’t at all clear that Jesus did teach the same “truths” from the Torah that matter so much to you. In the record that we have of his teachings, Jesus never took the trouble to talk about the literal facts of the talking snake, Noah’s Ark, and God making Eve out of either a ball of clay or Adam’s rib (whichever version you prefer). Obviously because that stuff doesn’t matter in the slightest to the point of his teachings.

    I believe that the Hebrews of Jesus’ time did not find it necessary to accept those stories literally and not allegorically. All that has been an accretion and distortion added by Christians much more recently, particularly among fundamentalist Protestants.

    Even 2,000 years ago and 3,000 years ago, rabbis told fictional stories to make a point – including Jesus himself. The Hebrews of Jesus’ time understood the Torah in that spirit. Will you insist on a literal Good Samaritan? Or was Jesus “lying” about that?

    Now stop ducking my question about the Old Testament stories. Name just three of them that are allegory and not literally true. Just three. And please explain how you can tell which ones are allegory and which are factual.

    You might start by stating your position on creation in six days. It does say “days,” doesn’t it? Supposedly Adam came along ~6,000 years ago based on the “begats.” Are the “begats” accurate? How about the talking serpent? I think you already covered the Tower of Babel and Noah’s Ark (literally true!) Jonah and the Great Fish? The destruction of Sodom? There are so many to choose from!

    Please don’t disappoint all your fans here. Man up and answer.

    (I bet he ducks again – any takers?)

  248. Oops – the italics were supposed to close at the end of the first paragraph.

    Speaking of ducking out, Mr. “abortion is murder” has been absent all day. He must have been doing some important legal work on this beautiful Sunday. Too bad.

    I really want to hear how he addresses comment #246.

  249. “Actually, Rabbit, I too am disappointed that neither FN2, Huck nor Gray has elaborated on Christian’s ulterior motives for supporting Israel.”

    It’s a fringe thing at the most. It is overrated to the point that it is not worth commenting on. You can’t generalize about Christian thought any more than you can about Muslim thought.

    I wouldn’t give this much thought, Rutherford. Seriously.

  250. Liberals who object to reasonable law enforcement procedures are idiots
    Liberals who object to reasonable law enforcement proceduresare idiots.
    #1 I would not celebrate a humans loss of identity,even a liberal.
    #2 Speed traps was typed but I was actually thinking of sobriety checkpoints. As I understand your thinking though it still would be ok with you.
    #3 Seriously Rutherford you now more clearly epitomize the American Liberal than ever before. Liberty?F#$% Dat!
    I also have to say your conditions above are unacceptable so I reject them.The practices are what they are.
    You support something you’re not going to get because you feel it is right.

  251. I’ve been away, thankfully, and have missed a lot of the mud slinging. You’ve been busy I see…

    DR has done very well, probably better than me, in explaining the dynamics of the Palestinians and their Arab neighbors. None of the Arab states like the Palestinians, and if they were not convenient pawns against Israel, you would have never heard of them.

    Don’t believe me? Why was the State of Palestine never established prior to 1967? Folks go on and on about the “occupation” of the Palestinian territory, but their memory conveniently doesn’t include the Egyptian and Jordanian “occupation” of the same land.

    Here’s the dirty little secret- there has never been a country or state of Palestine. To claim otherwise is a simple lie and is completely disconnected from reality.

  252. You can’t generalize about Christian thought any more than you can about Muslim thought.

    Huck, on that we agree 100%. The only reason I even poke at the issue is that some Christians are quick to call someone an anti-Semite if they question, even for one second, Israeli foreign policy. Well if they’re gonna play that game, then I want to know the complete story on why they have a vested interest in Israel. If their interest is less than on the up-and-up, then anything else they have to say to me on the subject is in doubt.

  253. Here’s the dirty little secret- there has never been a country or state of Palestine. To claim otherwise is a simple lie and is completely disconnected from reality.

    So Gorilla, by extension would it be truthful to say there is no such thing as a Palestinian? And if so, what would you call them?

  254. Huck at 302:

    Here is what Tex had to say on the matter:

    “Why is that you goons insist there must be some malevolent bearing on why Evangelicals are so adamant in support of Israel. That’s straight from God’s mouth to our ears. ”

    A fringe thing? Meet Mr. Fringe.

  255. Tex said “no one yet has been able to provide any definitive proof of man being around much more than 8,000 – 10,000 years.”

    This statement is so outrageous in its willful ignorance that at first I was tempted to let it go. But this morning I simply googled “homo sapiens” – and I was stunned myself at the large number of websites carrying large numbers of photographs of remains of fully modern humans beginning about 150,000 years ago.

    Rather than provide a link to any particular website – which Tex would no doubt challenge as being in cahoots with National Geographic (why again would that be a BAD thing?) – I challenge Tex to revisit this question from the secular angle instead of bitterly clinging to his bible study guides for his scientific information.

  256. Palestinians are Arabs, as such, I call them Arabs…

    Kurds are a specific ethnic group, therefore they are Kurds…

  257. All Arabs may look alike to the Ape. But since some of his buddies here think that Palestinians are a persecuted minority in other Arab countries, there must be some way that more discerning observers can tell them apart.

    It’s a clever way to solve the “Palestinian problem,” isn’t it – simply deny their existence! 😀

  258. Are you saying that they are not Arab? Do you claim that a seperate Palestinian ethnicity exists?

    Here’s what is clever, you know nothing of the situation but let that little tidbit get in the way of you commenting on it anyway.

  259. Oh? Then this means what?

    All Arabs may look alike to the Ape. But since some of his buddies here think that Palestinians are a persecuted minority in other Arab countries, there must be some way that more discerning observers can tell them apart.

  260. I guess your referring to me as “the buddy”. You’re an insecure little man, aren’t you? I ask again, doesn’t being so inept in middle eastern history make you question yourself in the least?

    Greychin, there is no way you arrived at your conclusions on Israel by using your own intellect and reason. You have proved that with your massive lack of knowledge of the historical narrative. The whole damn blog sees this. That’s cool with you?

    Fakename…just business as usual? You’re cool with being so wrong headed about basic facts on the middle east?

  261. It means what it says. There is nothing there that even implies that Palestinians (if they exist) are not Arabs. Where did you come up with that?

    “Ethnicity” is a very imprecise term. Are Brits and English-speaking Americans of different “ethnicities”?

  262. Gorilla, you failed the “All A are B therefore all B are A” argument. Gray agreed that “Palestinians” are Arabs. But clearly all Arabs don’t call themselves Palestinians so what is the distinctive characteristic?

    Are you saying Palestinians are an ethnic group, vs a nationality?

    What I find interesting, following the facts provided by Rabbit, is that Palestinians are apparently just as oppressed a minority as Jews since they are not welcome anywhere. Wouldn’t that just provide more ammo for the argument that they too should have a homeland where they are safe from abuse? I’m just sayin’.

  263. Imprecise? Again, you let your ignorance shine through…

    ethnicity: relating to or characteristic of a human group having racial, religious, linguistic, and certain other traits in common

    Tell who apart from whom? Enlighten us on what the hell it is you are trying to say. Just to be precise…

  264. Jesus Christ, they’re not a fucking minority.

    They’re Arabs. Period. Their claim to fame is their attachment to a specific piece of ground. Fellow Arabs don’t particularly care for them because they’re leaches on society. They are almost as harmful as the they are useful, and if/when the Arab states and Israel make nice with one another, they’ll be completely abandoned by the Arab states as useless fodder.

  265. G, I know you think I’m beating a dead horse, but since Arab is not a nationality, are you saying these are Arabs who have no country as their own but rather lay claim to land that does not belong to them?

    Taking it a step further, can I further surmise you don’t favor a “two state solution”? Which then leads me to ask should Israel lay claim to the entire disputed region?

    I ask this because the entire dispute in the region is predicated on the existence of “Palestine” and “Palestinians”. The minute you say both are a sham, then the solution in the region becomes clear.

  266. There are many different ways people identify themselves. “Palestinian” is a regional identifier, not an ethnic or nationalist identifier.

    It’s not really that difficult to figure out, folks….

    ” Their claim to fame is their attachment to a specific piece of ground.”

    Exactly like Israel.

  267. ethnicity: relating to or characteristic of a human group having racial, religious, linguistic, and certain other traits in common

    OK – based on that “precise” definition, please answer my earlier question: are English-speaking Americans an “ethnicity” distinct from the English people? Are Scots a distinct ethnicity from the English? If so, then why aren’t Palestinians an ethnicity distinct from, say, Egyptians, even though they are all Arabs?

    Not all Muslims are Arabs (which was news to Tex Taylor). Not all Arabs are Muslims – a relatively small percentage are Christians. But to lump Palestinians with Egyptians, Moroccans and Saudis is just willfully ignorant.

    I’m making fun of your “there never was a Palestinian nation and therefore there are no Palestinians” statement because it is a silly talking point designed to further marginalize the Palestinians. Blindly pro-Israel people jump on it like hungry dogs.

    Rutherford at 321 and Huck at 322 are on the right track.

  268. Exactly like Israel.

    Which means (pardon me for putting words in your mouth Huck) that Israel has no greater claim to the land than the “Palestinians” do.

    That takes us back to square one on how we resolve problems in the region.

  269. Scots are of Celtic origin while the English of are Germanic origin. I believe there is some small pockets of Scots who even can speak a different language. I know the some Welsh still can.

  270. Re: Palestine
    Not really a name anyone there created,not unlike any given nation on the African continent.
    As far as there ever being a Palestine with an Arab based, internationally recognized central government,well that never existed until as some have stated earlier. I think one can say that genie is never going back into the bottle,albeit a bottle that as stated never existed until the mid 20th century.
    I think people can agree that there is a distinct population today called Palestinians.
    If we can agree on that we can move on to the truth that post 1948 Israel exercised age old principles of expanding territory and assuring internal security. I’m not trying to speak in euphemisms here,just presenting detached logic. No matter biblical yearnings when you do this you can also state that there is a distinct population called Israelis.
    As for Rutherfords assertion of

    Which means that Israel has no greater claim to the land than the “Palestinians” do.

    I would point the gentleman from CT to the international adaptation to the infamous Toddler Property Rules.
    If I want it,it’s mine. If I am holding it,it’s mine,If I’ve ever held it,its mine.

  271. I know the some Welsh still can.
    Truly truly truly if there was ever a language that only ____ could understand Welsh is definitely one of them,ever see one of their road signs? Holy crap!

  272. One man’s “expanding territory and assuring internal security” is another man’s “ethnic cleansing.” Just saying.

    ♪This land
    Is mine ♪
    ♫God gave this land to meeee ♫

  273. R, re: #299…what a very kind and complimentary thing to say. Your memory is holding up pretty well I’d say! But not an MRI machine, I think…I believe you’re thinking of the post I did about the radiation machine (aka, “linear accelerator”) which went berserk and started spitting out gold beads for no apparent reason, and scared the daylights out of us all.
    I’m pretty confused about how my blog can be characterized as sexual in nature. Wait, no I’m not confused….it was Tex. My sexual references are usually confined to posting suggestive music videos, like quite a few from Bonnie Raitt and at least one by Usher (“Burn”). Anyway, thanks again, your praise was humbling.

  274. I disagree with Gorilla to some extent on Palestinian nationalism. He is correct that there historically has never been any such thing as “Palestine” in terms of a national conscious. But the struggle since 1948, despite being hijacked and exploited, has certainly created an undeniable national reality that is “Palestine”.

    It may have started off as “astro turf”, but its the real deal now.

    There is a reason “pan-Arabism” always falls flat on its face. Of course, money, oil, religion and geopolitics play a massive part in this. But, culture and identity do too.

    A Moroccan Arab and an Arab from Yemen are just not the same people.

    I find the most obvious example of this in the way Arab Americans hang out here in Detroit. Palestinians hang with Palestinians. Lebanese hang with Lebanese. (Well..Shi’ite Lebanese do hang with Shi’ite Syrians.)

    I believe in self-determination. I don’t think we should get into the business of writing the Palestinians off because there wasn’t a historic national moment. The idea of nationalism is still pretty new. Particularly in former European colonies .I would love to see an independent Palestinian state next to Israel. I even think it’s possible to share Jerusalem.

    Now for the big “if”.

    Sadly, whacked out radical Muslims and PLO corruption makes this impossible. Sure, Israel has some ultra-Zionists zealots of their own that complicate matters. But damn, how in God’s name does anybody expect the Israelis to deal with the stink beards in a normal fashion? These people are fucking nuts.

    Jews had been moving to the Ottoman Empire and buying farms on shitty plots of Palestinian land since the 1880s. Plus, a Jewish populations still survived there despite the Roman enforced diaspora. I’ve noticed many Liberals here in America paint a picture that Jewish immigration after World War II was without earlier precedent. That’s just dead wrong. And if it is dead wrong, Jews can make an equally valid claim of nationhood in the old rubble of the Ottoman Empire that any Arab can.

    Palestinians getting booted out of houses only happened after Arabs found themselves on the losing end of war they started.

  275. Damn Rabbit …. seriously you outdid yourself on that last comment. Have you been laying down some seriously heavy sh*t on your high school students lately? That comment read like you are clearly in the “zone”.

    I’m very pleased to see a few of us posting some nuance with regard to Israel/Palestine.

    I’d still like to read G’s opinion on a two state solution since he doesn’t seem to believe we are dealing with two states in the first place.

  276. Hey Rabbit … and I’m not just sucking up … I’ve said this to you before but I’m repeating here for the record. You should really consider starting your own blog. You can wordsmith stuff together in creative ways I haven’t seen before …. some real entertaining sh*t. We’ve lost Hippie Professor, and whether you like it or not, you are in academia. It would be wild for you to fill the void of someone who is always learning, in part because he’s always teaching.

    If you need any help getting started, reach out. Launch the sucker on Jan 1 2011. DO IT MAN!

  277. Ahh shucks. Me with a blog? It would consist of weekly, typo filled treatise on brewing yeasts and a daily venue to bitch about the Detroit Lions-Nancy Pelosi.

    I’d be begging for the legendary Tex Taylor to rip me into shreds just for some attention and Word Press street cred.

    Out of pity, he would try, but my 5 blog installments on the composite bat controversy within the adult slow pitch softball community would render him comatose in a puddle of sleep drool.

  278. G, I know you think I’m beating a dead horse, but since Arab is not a nationality, are you saying these are Arabs who have no country as their own but rather lay claim to land that does not belong to them?” – R

    In a word, yes.

    The land belonged to the Ottoman empire and when WWI came to a close and the empire was dissolved, the British took over the territory. Both the Arabs and the Jews in the area were attacking the British to force them to make a decision on the other, so the British in great limey fashion past the buck to the UN. The UN came up with a plan and a map of compromise between the two.

    Israel accepted the plan, the Arabs rejected it. Israel declared independence and the surrounding Arab states attacked Israel and LOST. Here’s the deal, when you throw the dice and go the way of armed conflict, you get what you earn. The Arabs earned a fat lip and no soup for you.

    From 1948 till 1967, Egypt held the Gaza and Jordan controlled the West Bank. Egypt, Syria and Jordan were on the brink of attacking Israel, so Israel preemptively addressed the threat, pushing Jordan out of the West Bank and Egypt off of the Sinai. Again, you want to play with guns, you get what you earn- they earned bupkis.

    Israel gave the Sinai- less the Gaza- back to Egypt in exchange for peace, which has worked. Jordan can’t stand Palestinians and has no desire to control the West Bank, plus they have a huge issue with Palestinian refugees right now so…

    Taking it a step further, can I further surmise you don’t favor a “two state solution”? Which then leads me to ask should Israel lay claim to the entire disputed region?

    I ask this because the entire dispute in the region is predicated on the existence of “Palestine” and “Palestinians”. The minute you say both are a sham, then the solution in the region becomes clear.” – R

    The second one side or the other engages in armed struggle, the solution to the problem lies in that outcome. The argument held water up to the second the surrounding Arab states attacked the state of Israel. When they lost, the argument was settled. Period.

    As for the two state solution, and DR’s comment, “But the struggle since 1948, despite being hijacked and exploited, has certainly created an undeniable national reality that is “Palestine”.

    I do believe in it, however, I think that we’re negotiating with the wrong people. The “Palestinians” do not belong at the table. The negotiations should be between the surrounding Arab states and Israel, once the Arab states are on board, the Palestinians have no choice but to follow since they are almost entirely dependent on foreign aid. Also, if the agreement is with the Arab states, then the ability of the plethora of Palestinian terrorist groups to sabotage the peace process significantly decreases.

    A Moroccan Arab and an Arab from Yemen are just not the same people. ” – DR

    A very astute comment. Even Arabic differs from the north of the region to the south. However, the Levant is fairly homogenous and the differentiating factors the separate the various areas (African influences, Bedouin influences, Asian influences, etc) don’t really apply. Syria, Lebanon, Jordan (a potential difference- Heshamites) and northern Egyptians (another possible difference) are very much the same.

    I find the most obvious example of this in the way Arab Americans hang out here in Detroit. Palestinians hang with Palestinians. Lebanese hang with Lebanese. (Well..Shi’ite Lebanese do hang with Shi’ite Syrians.)” – DR

    You stumble on it here DR- the Sect differentiates the two. Sunni and Shia is like Water and Oil; and it takes a LOT of volatility to make the two mix.

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