The Black-White Obama Enthusiasm Gap

Last week, the Los Angeles Times reported the September Gallup Poll results on Barack Obama’s job approval rating. The breakdown revealed something to me that it probably didn’t reveal to most folks.

Gallup Obama job approval results

Among Democrats the September average approval rating is 79%
Among Liberals, the number is 75%
Among non-Hispanic whites, the number is 36%

When Tavis Smiley was asked about these numbers on Meet the Press this morning, he suggested it shows that we still have some work to do on race relations. I say nonsense.

On the contrary, I think the 91% job approval rating among blacks is an utter embarrassment. Blacks should be consistent with the Democratic number or the Liberal number. Even if we allow for some race-bias, the number then should perhaps jump to 82 or 83%.  But 91%? That is preposterous. We have almost 10% unemployment, much worse than that in the black community. We have a liberal agenda that has been only partially achieved at best. For any sub-group to support Obama to the tune of 91% in the context of these difficult times shows a complete lack of critical analysis.

I completely understood the overwhelming support Obama got in the 2008 election from black folk. This was something most of us never dreamed would happen in our lifetime. Going to the polls and breaking that glass ceiling was imperative. But an election is not the same as a job approval rating and 21 months into his first term, Obama has certainly not earned a 91% approval rating by any measure. Do I support President Obama? Absolutely. Am I thrilled with the job he is doing? Not entirely. The notion that I should ignore his deficiencies as President because I am black and so is he, is insulting.

Tavis Smiley needs to worry less about the black/white divide and focus more on why blacks seem to have their head in the sand when it comes to how our country is doing.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

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150 thoughts on “The Black-White Obama Enthusiasm Gap

  1. Oh sweet Jesus. Jumping Mother of Johosophat. Wallah Akbar!

    Almost.

    You’re half way there.

    Tavis Smiley needs to worry less about the black/white divide and focus more on why blacks seem to have their head in the sand when it comes to how our countrycommunity is doing.

    I’m all for the critical anaysis, but it needs to be applied to introspection at this point.

  2. “I completely understood the overwhelming support Obama got in the 2008 election from black folk. This was something most of us never dreamed would happen in our lifetime. Going to the polls and breaking that glass ceiling was imperative”

    That’s right. You black folks rushed out to vote for your fellow black man even though it was obvious before he was elected that this junior senator…this community organizer….was so far out of his depth that it was–and is–pathetic. But you didn’t care about the qualifications of the man you were pulling the voting lever for, did you? You didn’t care if Barack Obama could handle the job of President of the United States of America, did you?

    Nope. All that was important was the color of his skin.

    And 2 years later, that is still all 91% of you care about.

    No wonder OJ walked……

  3. R, sorry your first black president sucks. What did the black community think was supposed to happen? (that’s a serious question).

    Reginal Denny? Try the NBPP.

  4. What slays me is that almost 1 out of 4 calling themselves Conservative approve of Obama. It further validates my conclusions, and I don’t care how elitist this sounds because it is guaranteed true, that at least a third of the people in this country are so politically dumb and shallow, they have no idea what they are, think or believe. They simply provide an answer.

    These are the people who don’t know who Joe Biden is, but do recognize Justin Bieber or Kanye West. I pray these people don’t vote, no matter the party.

    This poll also helps validate for me the most bigoted and prejudiced category in America are not whites, but blacks. Running a close second are white Liberals living along the coasts.

  5. ROTFLMAO

    On the previous thread I told Gorilla that I was posting a new article but that unfortunately there wouldn’t be much to argue about this time. LOL I got that wrong.

    OJ, Reginald Denny, the New Black Panther Party, oh my! Black folks just getting away with crime left and right! And not a single black man in jail for a crime he didn’t commit. Not a single black man pulled over because he “didn’t belong in that neighborhood”. Not a single black man serving twice the prison sentence of a white man who got caught using essentially the same drug.

    Oh my God, when will there be justice in America? When will blacks get the punishment they deserve? 😉

  6. G, regarding your comment about community vs country, I do see your point but truth be told that is the way everyone should behave. The country gets better one community at a time and if every community focused on making itself better, things would get incrementally better … and perhaps without the aid of the Fed.

  7. To answer your rant Huck, a lot of black people voted for Obama because he was black. A lot of them (like me) voted for him because 99% of the time they vote Democrat.

    As someone who has studied history at length, you of all people should understand the historical significance of having a black man as the nominee of a major political party. Unlike some on this board, I respect your commitment to academic learning, Huck, and quite honestly your comment makes you sound totally ignorant of the historic underpinnings of the 2008 election.

    I seriously doubt that blacks would have come out for Obama had he championed a Nazi platform. But seeing as he was an inspirational speaker, a seemingly “nice” guy with no offensive political views, and potentially the first black President, I don’t think the reaction of the black electorate was all that shameful.

    As I said, judging the man in the job is another story.

  8. What did the black community think was supposed to happen? (that’s a serious question).

    It might be serious but I have no idea what you’re asking. The poll indicates blacks are quite happy with Obama.

  9. “R”,

    Doubt? No doubt. The only doubt I have is that I may have “misunderestimated” the amount of abject stupidity out there. I no longer doubt why America is in serious trouble.

    But I still contend that blacks are far and away in the most serious trouble. When three out of four black babies are born without a father, it’s a matter of time before a portion of civilization collapses. It already has in many places. And unfortunately, if you go strictly by the numbers, we’ve got an even bigger chunk of white trash that can’t live without the nanny state.

    If a majority of blacks were the only problem, from freeloaders, to bangers, to drug heads, the country could carry them. They obviously aren’t.

    Personal example. My sweet grandmother neighbor across the street has literally had her life stolen by her worthless ‘grand kids.’

    At 76, she’s been forced to go back to work after supporting five illegitimate great-grand babies, has no equity in her home that was paid for, has created over 150K in credit card debt the last ten years to support these bums who have now moved in, and the worthless mother, whom I graduated with, just moved and lives a 100 miles away doesn’t lift a finger to help. In fact, she won’t even get her junk possessions out of my neighbor’s garage she’s such a pig.

    The only thing I knock my neighbor for is letting them get away with it. Sad, sad story and I despise these grand children, who aren’t even my neighbor’s biological grand kids. I help ‘Nana’ out with the great grand kids sometimes, including putting their bikes together this weekend, letting them use my computers for schools, helping my neighbor with the house.

    And now, this feckless, fat POS for a mother expects me to drop what I’m doing at any moment to help out with her own kids.. I finally told my neighbor this weekend that she needs to toughen up, because I’m not going to let the leech get away with it much longer. If it wasn’t for my wife threatening to pound me, I already would have. “Don’t you dare ‘Tex’ – it is not your concern.” I heard that twice this weekend.

  10. “Not a single black man serving twice the prison sentence of a white man who got caught using essentially the same drug. Oh my God, when will there be justice in America? When will blacks get the punishment they deserve?”

    When will you stop relying false inferences of non- existent institutional racism? The NBPP (you know, the group you didn’t recognize) and the directives from the Justice Department represents the clearest form of institutional racism I’ve witnessed in my lifetime. Funny that it’s barely mentioned by you. . . well, other than to defend it or pretend that you don’t recognize it.

    As for the jail sentences, I assume you are referring to crack versus powder cocaine (under federal laws — different weights constitute violations)? Approximately 5,000 convictions versus how many for cocaine? How about crystal meth convictions? You know, the white man’s crack.

    Oh look out! The blacks aren’t getting the special treatment they deserve. . .

  11. This consistent Democrat can’t give Obama an unqualified “approve.” The question is too broad. I approve of a lot of Obama’s work, but I also have issues with some of his decisions and policies. I think that he has often been too timid in pursuing his larger agenda, and often too accommodating to the sort of Republicans who obviously wish his administration only harm and failure. We don’t have a Loyal Opposition in Congress any more – or even a sane one.

    But concerning Rutherford’s blog post…

    Most blacks are Democrats – or at least they vote that way overwhelmingly and consistently, in every race, everywhere. Of all Democrats, 79% approve of Obama’s job performance. For blacks, that percentage is 91%, compared to the 95% who voted for him in 2008.

    Those numbers make me conclude that about 12% (at most) of blacks might be accused of saying that they approve of Obama’s presidency solely due to the effect of “rallying around a brother.” But for those 12%, is that what they believe in their heart of hearts, or is that only what they tell a white pollster? We don’t know. A poll that asked more specific and probing questions might have told us – but a poll that only asks us to choose between “approve” and “disapprove” is certain to give only a superficial result. It is definitely not something upon which to base a conclusion that a “91% job approval rating among blacks is an utter embarrassment.”

    Rutherford – apparently I give blacks a lot more credit for a capacity for independent thought than you do.

    I thought that the results at the other end of the spectrum were interesting too:

    23% of self-identified “conservatives” approve of Obama’s performance. That many approve? I’m a little surprised, except that broad labels like that tend to be meaningless. For example, the “Pro-Life” crowd gets a tingle down their legs when they read that a majority of Americans label themselves that way. Ask more probing questions and that tingle goes away very fast.

    But only 12% of Republicans approve! Does that mean that 88% disapprove? That’s almost as one-sided as the 91% of blacks who approve. In these hyper-partisan times, Republicans keep their troops in line much more effectively than Democrats do. Is there a similar effect among Republicans when they answer polls? Do they rally round the flag of John Boehner in a similar way to blacks rallying around Brother Obama? Could be.

    We don’t know.

    Polls like this are useful in identifying overall trends of opinion, by repeating the poll week by week. (See the LAT article.) But I think Rutherford is way off base in being embarrassed for the Entire Black Race based on this single snapshot. It’s interesting, but I don’t take it so seriously.

    Yes, Republicans will make gains in the 2010 elections. (How big? We’ll see, won’t we?) The economy still sucks, and the Democrats as incumbents are obvious targets. Does this mean that the electorate will vote Obama out in 2012? That’s a big stretch. Just wait until they measure him against his Republican opponent.

  12. In these hyper-partisan times, Republicans keep their troops in line much more effectively than Democrats do.

    I can prove that wrong by simply pointing to Obama’s approval numbers. No matter how rotten he is, Obama will never fall much below 40% even if every major city in America is nuked while he is out golfing.

    George Bush’s approval numbers would never have fallen as low as they did if it weren’t for millions of Repubicans/Conservatives disapproving of Bush’s job performance. There are twice as man of us as there are of you. Hard core Dimocrats can not say this, refuse to believe this, because their entire lives (especially since politics is there religion) are invested in the Dimocratic party, and especially Obama.

    Anybody that believes Obama has been anything but a disaster is lying or completely misinformed. For this reason alone, I know Republican poll numbers are always more valid, because concerning opinion, Republicans are far more intellectually honest.

    And by the way, not to get a laugh at your expense Graychin, but I hope you noticed this weekend that Tom Coburn, who you listed as one of the morons of Congress last week, though somehow the moron managed to get his CPA and medical degree, is now running with a 62 point lead. 🙂

    Graychin, have you ever given serious consideration in moving to Berkeley?

  13. Oh, sorry. I read that wrong at the Tulsa World. I went an looked. Coburn polls at 62% of the vote with 21% for his worthless Dim opponent – a major league loser.

    Make that 41 point lead.

  14. Tex, I’m glad that you are so excited about Coburn’s prospects for re-election. Of course he has plenty of help from Oklahoma Democrats, who did not offer a credible opponent.

    I had never heard before that Coburn is a CPA. Perhaps the reason I have never heard that is that there are no CPA’s named Coburn registered in Oklahoma.

    http://www.ok.gov/oab/search.php?type=individual

    Electoral success in Oklahoma does not disqualify anyone from the status of moron. The opposite is more likely to be true. Take the ever-popular Jim Inhofe. (Please!)

    And I will never consider moving out of Oklahoma. My dedication to Oklahoma is complete. Like I’ve told you before, I consider myself to be a missionary, spreading the Good News to the unconverted and the backsliders.

  15. Tex, you consistently confuse popularity with merit. Where did you learn your values? By that standard, Obama’s election made him the most meritorious president in decades.

    Only 62% poll for Coburn? In Oklahoma? With a complete zero for an opponent? Your “62 point lead” seemed entirely credible to me, and apparently to you too.

    Having corrected your info about Coburn’s lead in polls, you might also want to check your facts about Coburn being a CPA. According to the database at the Oklahoma Accountancy Board website, there has never been a CPA named Coburn registered in Oklahoma.

    No wonder I never heard that about him before.

  16. Could be right Graychin. I “assumed” Coburn to be a CPA, knowing fully well M.D. a far more difficult and distinguished professional degree. Obviously, Coburn was smart not to waste his time pursuing advancement in a field he had determined unworthy of his distinguished qualities. Wish I could have done the same. 🙂

    Mathematics has never been your thing Graychin – surprising for a CPA. That’s an approximate 3-1 lead for Coburn, as your ‘worthy’ Dim candidate polls at a whopping 21-22%. I was simply pointing out that like your preaching about “diversity” where you live in a town with zero blacks, your politics seems completely out of step with your locale too. But not any more ironic that an avid Obama supporter would be lecturing me about the qualities of popularity and merit. That one tops the diversity and racial tolerance speech, and on par with your pronouncement that the Republican party quickly becoming a regional party you gave me two years ago on the T-World board.

    That’s why I’m guessing there will be an overwhelming victory on November 3rd for the Republican party. It’s based solely on your own predictive capabilities.

    However, you continue to misconstrue election results. Obama’s win was not the largest in “decades.” Both George Bush I and Ronald Reagan won by far larger margins, and that doesn’t constitute decades. Obama’s victory was not even considered overwhelming by historical standards as he won 30 states and D.C. if memory serves.

    Like the CPA, I’m not going to bother to look it up.

  17. As someone who has studied history at length, you of all people should understand the historical significance of having a black man as the nominee of a major political party.

    But when it was done for the “historical significance”, and not because he was the best candidate (a first term Senator with a history of standing firm for…nothing, really), then it was all about doing it for all the wrong reasons.

    While the press was busy calling some of racists for not climbing on board history’s train with the rest of the idiot lemmings, a few of my friends opined that not only would he fail to usher in an era of post-racial politics, he would actually set race-relations back a good notch or three based on the combination of his arrogance and incompetence.

    They left out an element: his watercarriers’ propensity to turn a blind eye to his arrogance and incompetence while calling us racists for questioning it.

  18. While the press was busy calling some of racists for not climbing on board history’s train with the rest of the idiot lemmings, a few of my friends opined that not only would he fail to usher in an era of post-racial politics, he would actually set race-relations back a good notch or three based on the combination of his arrogance and incompetence.

    You can add this “friend” to your list of those who made the same prediction, and Rutherford will attest to that at another blog we used to frequent – before the lib blog owner got cold feet and contracted Obama flu. He left Rutherford high and dry and has never returned.

    Believe I told Rutherford something along the lines, “My biggest fear concerning our ‘post racial’ President is not that Obama succeeds, but that he doesn’t.”

    It was one of the few statements I made that Rutherford ever agreed with me.

    Assuming the predicted butt kicking happens November 2nd, things are going to get worse – much worse. Anybody that understood anything about black liberal theology knew that. And if Obama is to lose in 2012, I’ll go further to predict all out war in parts of the country, with the predictable cries of Jim Crow.

    You watch.

  19. “s someone who has studied history at length, you of all people should understand the historical significance of having a black man as the nominee of a major political party. Unlike some on this board, I respect your commitment to academic learning, Huck, and quite honestly your comment makes you sound totally ignorant of the historic underpinnings of the 2008 election.”

    And your comments make you sound like a black man defending a black man and ignoring any other facts. But then, that’s what this whole post is about, isn’t it?

    The fact is, you all could have voted for Hillary Clinton and made just as much history, so don’t piss that history excuse down my back and say it’s raining.

  20. And if Obama is to lose in 2012, I’ll go further to predict all out war in parts of the country, with the predictable cries of Jim Crow.

    Be careful what you predict Nostradamus, especially considering your self proclaimed batting average.

  21. So Rutherford, since you don’t seem to want to talk about history anymore, have you any comments on Obama launching accusations against the US Chamber of Commerce, and when asked about evidence, Axelrod says it’s up to the accused to prove there was no wrongdoing, rather than the accuser actually proving his case?

    Any comment on the hypocrisy of those allegations?

    Any comment on the fact that foreign PACs actually donate more to the Democratic party than the GOP?

  22. We hear endlessly about Obama’s “dismal” approval ratings. But maybe a bit of context would be helpful.

    In a survey of approximately 1,500 adults nation-wide, Gallup said on Oct. 6 that Obama’s approval rating was 48 percent. By comparison, Bill Clinton, the previous Democrat to reside in the White House, had a 42 percent approval rating at the same time in his presidency.

    Republican icon Ronald Reagan, similarly, had an approval rating hovering around 42 percent at this time in his presidency, thanks to the country’s languishing economy which was largely credited for a Republican loss of 28 House seats in 1982.

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/obama-approval-reagan-clinton-poll-data/

    More popular than Clinton after two years? And more popular than Reagan? Who would have imagined such a thing? No one, if all you know is what you hear from the the lamestream media.

    Both of those presidents’ parties suffered a voter backlash after two years. Both presidents were re-elected easily and remain popular today.

    Just saying.

  23. One fortunate aspect of growing older is you were there and can’t be lied to. Here’s the popular spin circling the Dim drain right now. Obama is Reagan – in fact, in comparison, more popular. 🙄 What a joke. By 1982, we were well on our way to pulling out of a recession I actually consider worse than what we are currently experiencing. The unemployment rate was even more dismal, and in 1982 it was accompanied by recent 16% prime interest rates – thank you Gerald Ford and Jimmah Carter. The country far more Dimocratic then, than now.

    So Graychin, without further ado, spin, and argument, I will bet you any sum of money you wish to wager right now that Barack Hussein Obama will not win 49 states and come within 3,000 votes of sweeping all 50 states come 2012. 🙂

    You see Graychin, for years your propaganda machine has owned the media, the polls, the periodicals, the fact checkers, etc. etc. etc…Reagan was far more popular 20 months into his Presidency than Obama could ever dream – but Dims simply can’t bring themselves to admit that, and at the time with limited resources, that is what the mainstream media who did control the game then wanted everyone to believe.

    I’ll make you a further bet straight up that the mid-terms for your more “popular” Obama in three weeks will be far more dismal than the 1982 midterms were for Reagan, further proving that at usual, you’re full of shit.

    Do we have a bet?

    One other myth I hope we can put to rest – the “popularity” of Slick Clinton. It wasn’t 24 months ago, that Serial Rapist Bill was being referred to as racist in your circles. Now, with Obama tanking, you’ve dredged up Slick’s charisma to soften the total collapse. Further, Clinton never even captured 50% of the popular vote in either election – and that was before Monica Lewinsky.

    Billy Bob Clinton’s obituary will read “boyfriend of Monica Lewinsky”, disbarred and vast right-wing conspiracy. You can take that to the bank.

  24. That’s some really nice cherry-picking of history, there, Graychin.

    Now let’s look at what you left out….

    Jimmy Carter had a midterm approval rating of 49%. Higher than Obama has today. Do you need a reminder of how his re-election bid turned out?

    George HW Bush had a mid-term approval rating of 58%. Again, higher than Obama has today. And again, do you need to be reminded of his re-election attempt?

    Just saying….

  25. Here’s some more “current”, “indisputable” fact that proves that contrary to Graychin’s wet dream of Obamaville, and unlike 1982, we are not going in the right direction. In fact, it with respect to the economy, I don’t know how Dimocrats could have done much worse.

    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.f44dc0982a11a52246a9f2b994a36455.231&show_article=1

    How does inflation sound in conjunction with the Obama economy? That sounds a lot more like Jimmah Carter salad days than Reagan days to me. Just saying.

    Throw in the atrocious and unpopular health care bill, Bongo’s dismal foreign record of mishandling the Vietnam Afghanistan war, appeasing despots when Bongo’s supposed charisma was going to bring world peace (how’s that Nobel working out?), and a daily multitude of gaffes, I’m not buying Graychin’s argument.

    Carter X 2. 🙂

    Change a word here or there, and Bongo sounds a lot like he is perpetual “malaise” speech on the campaign trail.

  26. “R”,

    I just saw the damnedest ad. The popular West Virginia governor, who because of Bomba is running about 7-8% points behind in the polls, even with a job approval rating of 66%, attacks Bomba in his political advertisement.

    Now I know shills like Graychin and Hippie will never admit to Mr. Popularity being about as popular as a case of the clap in huge swaths of this country, but surely, surely you’ll admit that there is something inherently wrong with this Presidency when the man’s own party is running as fast as they can away from the Obama agenda. I don’t know a soul running that is using his or her ties to Obama.

    It’s a great advertisement, by the way. I kind of liked the guy – but he’s a Dim, so he’s got to go.

  27. Rutherford, that was hilarious.

    However, I have one tiny bone to pick. That part in the beginning where the Daily Show referred to me as a victim.

    I don’t see it that way.

    I was a reckless but willing partner with a reckless and willing bank playing a reckless game.

    They bet on me and lost. So, now I’m doing whats best for my family as they do whats best for their business.

    My family income is now 50% less then in 2005 (the year I bought the house). My house is worth 50% less then in 05. Walking away means I can put my son through college.

    We both bet on me and lost.

    The only thing that pisses me off is that Big Nanny played favorites with the losers at the table with the next generation’s dime. As for the rest, all is fair in love and war.

    Hell, I would have kept making my payments if they would have at least let the underwriter have a go at it via re-modification.

    But, I got nothing from them until I was late. Nothing.

    My brother in Phoenix put a 40 grand down payment on a house. Lost it to foreclosure only to find that it sold for 38,000. Can you believe that shit?

  28. What did the black community think was supposed to happen? (that’s a serious question).

    OK Tigre, now that I think I understand the question ….

    The black community should have thought what most liberals thought, namely that Obama would pursue a transformational liberal agenda. That DADT would be history, that a single-payer insurance system would have been legislated, that renditions would come to an end, that unemployment would be dramatically reduced by a better allocation of stimulus funds.

    Now … if you’re trying to harken back to the old bullsh*t about “OOOO Lawdy, Obama’s gonna pay my electric bill”, NO, I’m not referring to that. That unreasonable and stupid expectation was held by a thin minority of blacks and even the example videos I’ve seen of it were blown out of proportion.

    The whole point of my article is that blacks who truly believe in the liberal agenda cannot help but be slightly disappointed by Obama. Now, I agree with Graychin that a boolean question of approval/non-approval leaves no wiggle room. Even so, I’m disappointed to see the 91% number.

    By the way, my BlogTalkRadio co-host Sandi accused me of sounding like Rush Limbaugh when I made the same observation on the air Sunday. I also got accused of reading conservative magazines when I called Alexi Giannoulias a mob financier. Crap …. talk about a choice between bad and worse … in Illinois you get a choice between a pathological liar and a crooked banker. I guess that’s “the Chicago way”.

  29. My brother in Phoenix put a 40 grand down payment on a house. Lost it to foreclosure only to find that it sold for 38,000. Can you believe that shit?

    Some of us (e.g. me) viewed real estate as not just a place to live but a great investment.

    Now I really should have known better. I bought a condo in 1986 for about 72K and sold it in ’94 for about 45K. That alone should have told me what high risk real estate investment was. But then I bought a house (not a condo) in ’94 and made a killing on it when I sold it in 2002 which not only erased all memory of the pounding I got in 1994, it made me arrogant as hell when I bought my current home. We already know how that’s working out.

    Glad you liked the video …. I thought you would. Even us libs can spot a f*ckin hypocrite when we see one and that mofo that heads up the MBA is high on the list. For what it’s worth, I hear you on the victimhood thing … but you gotta admit sometimes life does hand you lemons. Might not make you a victim but it sucks just the same.

  30. I’ve said it before, and I stand by it. The failure of Barak Obama will set the black community backwards. What’s gonna happen is that whenever someone sees a Dem black run for higher office, they will compare them to Obama. That will break them.

  31. #34 Rutherford. 😆

    Scumbags. It’s the rare occasion where the media, especially the lib media like Stewart, uncovers a story that needs to be broadcast across every spectrum in America.

    Like I was telling you and the Rabbit earlier this year – my wife and I have virtually perfect credit. Both of us scored over 800. We got that score because we have never missed a payment or bill. To the best of my knowledge, it has nothing to do with cash flow or income – that and we don’t carry big debt balances.

    And it got me thinking. WTF does perfect credit get you? I’ll tell you what it means to me. My wife and I are some of the stupidest people out here – honest, but stupid. I didn’t used to feel this way and was always proud that my word was good. Dishonesty and irresponsibility used to piss me off because I knew I was helping to pay for it.

    But now after watching these banks screw people over with hidden fees and horrid service, our feckless and corrupt government city/state/fed, self-serving pols, and then seeing something like this, I begin asking myself, “Why does anybody but my immediate family deserve my honesty? How many cars have I had backed into and nobody left a note, or the car was stolen? How many items have been stolen off my porch or out of my shed? How many tax hikes have I received the last ten years, especially fees and received not one iota of benefit in return?”

    If I didn’t have a guilty conscious and it would give you libs real ammo to call me liar and hypocrite with cause, I think I would take out one massive loan, whatever this credit score will buy me, and take a little vacation for about two years – I mean, live like a king, buy a bunch of ladies of the night – even stiff them (no pun intended), swindle as many people as I could along the way…. and back into as many cars as a rental car could take and still drive away. 🙂

  32. Tex, honesty buys us peace of mind and the respect of other honest people. That’s probably about it. The crooks think that we are suckers and losers. I just hope I sleep a bit better at night than they do.

  33. This liberal can still spot a fucking hypocrite when he sees one. (Huck, no offense directed at you.)

    “Why does anybody but my immediate family deserve my honesty?”

    Why indeed. Obviously they don’t . They never did. Why is that even the right question to be asking?

    Someone’s “Christian” ethics are showing.

    Tex, is your religion anything besides a pseudo-intellectual exercise with you? Anything at all? I’ve told you before that you are the least Christian person I have ever encountered, and this is the cherry on the top. I am a lot more “religious” than you are, even in the face of your condemnations.

    At least Eastern religions give you a selfish reason for being honest. It’s called karma. I believe that it works, but not through anything mystical. It’s just a built-in feature of human nature. We are selfish beings, and karma gives us a selfish reason for doing good.

    I don’t think you have a “conscious” at all. (At least you never show any sign of one.) How could it be guilty?

    But when you’ve got all the Christian angles figured out, it doesn’t matter at all if you are the World’s Greatest Scumbag. Just follow the right formulas and choose to believe all the right dogmas, and you’re in like Flynn. Too bad about all those righteous Hindus with good karma. God prefers that you are in Heaven and they are in Hell, for some reason that I can’t fathom.

    Some Christians answer this argument by saying that when you have accepted Christ, it changes your life so that you WANT to do right instead of wrong. Counter-examples abound: take sexual predators in the clergy and money-grubbing TV evangelists, and philandering “Christian, family values” politicians as the most outrageous examples.

    As well as fucking hypocrites on the internet.

  34. So, R, I guess I’ll wait for another post. Obviously you’d prefer not address your own subject matter here, or perhaps more realistically you just refuse to address my comments. Either way, I know it’s a wste of time when, in response to my question about what did the blcak communty think was going to happen you say:

    The black community should have thought that

    1. DADT would be history,

    2.that a single-payer insurance system would have been legislated, that renditions would come to an end, that unemployment would be dramatically reduced by a better allocation of stimulus funds.

  35. Whoops. I accidentally hit send before I had completed my comment. Let’s try again.

    So, R, I guess I’ll wait for another post. Obviously you’d prefer not address your own subject matter here, or perhaps more realistically you just refuse to address my comments. Either way, I know it’s a waste of time when, in response to my question about what did the black community think was going to happen you say:

    The black community should have thought that

    1. DADT would be history,

    2.that a single-payer insurance system would have been legislated,

    3. that renditions would come to an end,

    4. that unemployment would be dramatically reduced by a better allocation of stimulus funds.

    Now Rutherford, what planet are you living on? The black community concerned about DADT? Single payer insurance? Allocation of stimulus funds FOR EMPLOYMENT (rather than entitlement)? Give me a break. That ain’t even kinda close to what I heard from the black community that surrounds me here (or any of the old-guard civil rights leaders I was working with during 2008).

    The black community voted for Obama for two reasons, and two reasons only. 1. He was black. 2. He was a democrat.
    Policy had nothing to do with it — and you know it. The black community was hoping for favoritism as it has been promised by the democrats since the civil rights movement, only this time a special brand of it.

    Since Obama is still black and a democrat it’s no surprise that he has a 91% approval rating. Symbolism is all that ever mattered. You got what you wanted and as Gorilla points out, in the long run it will prove to be an albatross.

    I won’t bother with you lame inference concerning the drug sentencing. You’re incapable of showing that there exists institutional racism in drug crimes, and I know it.

  36. Tex is right about one thing, but for the wrong reason. Trying to maximize your credit score is a fool’s game.

    What does a great credit score get you? It gets you the right to pile up more and more debt, and that’s about it. If I find a credit card that gives me better rewards, I switch and close the old one in a flash. I hear that this hurts my credit score – but who gives a shit?

    News flash – lenders would rather lend to you at a high rate of interest than at a low one. Sure, riskier loans are more likely to default. But the net profit is greater making riskier loans. The sleazy “payday loan” bidness is the second-most profitable loan bidness around, right behind mob’s loan sharks. Credit card companies refer to people like me (who don’t carry monthly balances) as “deadbeats.” They don’t really want my business as it is. But I’m still a potential payer of 18%+ interest somewhere down the line. So they put up with me.

    When I was a young man I bought my first new car with a loan from a credit union. It was the most degrading experience of my life, and I vowed to myself: “never again.” When my payments ran out, I kept making the same payments into savings and kept driving the old car. I paid cash for every car I bought since then. The car dealers hate it. They use every trick in the book to get me to borrow, but I’m not that stupid.

    Why do people open charge accounts with every store in town? Clothes, furniture, you name it – all on credit. But a lot of those folks have a better credit score than I do because they make so many payments on time.

    It’s very hard and takes a long time to save up enough money to pay cash for a house, but I did paid cash for my last house, the one I’m living in now. And for the one before that. When I was making mortgage payments, I always paid extra every month. I didn’t miss the money every month, but I noticed it big-time when I sold houses.

    I watched friends and co-workers leveraging their paper gains in their houses to buy bigger and bigger houses, then lose them (and even go bankrupt) when previous bubbles burst. (We had a heck of a bubble in Oklahoma in the early 1980’s due to oil speculation. Did we learn from it? I did, but as whole? Not so much.)

    My present house probably dropped a lot in market value when the last bubble burst, but who gives a shit? I don’t owe on it and I’m not selling. Maybe my valuation for real estate taxes will go down!

    Here’s my point: Americans have been brainwashed into thinking that a great credit score is the passport to happiness. That’s true in the same sense that heroin makes you happy – you get addicted to credit, and eventually enslaved by it. If it happens to one person, that’s bad. When it happens to a whole nation, it can be a disaster for all of us. That’s where we are right now. When the house of cards collapses, we’re all back at “go.” Even the consumer finance magazines (like “Money”) and the radio shows like Marketplace don’t do much to educate people away from credit addiction. Society would be better if we would turn some of the War on Drugs around into a War on Credit.

  37. Tiger, you talk about the “black community” as if it’s all one thing that thinks alike. As if it acts in lockstep and speaks with one voice.

    Another news flash: every black person is an individual with his own thoughts. Why can’t the “white community” understand that?

    When you start talking about race in terms of individuals instead of falling into the old paradigms of racial identity, then perhaps Rutherford would be able to deal with a question from you that doesn’t have nonsense (“the black community”) at its core.

  38. Tiger, you talk about the “black community” as if it’s all one thing that thinks alike. As if it acts in lockstep and speaks with one voice.

    Tell that to any member of the black community who finds themself excommunicated for daring to depart from the groupthink and set foot off of the modern-day plantation where the Dems and the overseers like the Wrong Reverends Jackson and Sharptongue give daily lectures to these “individuals” on how to think while checking daily to make sure that those guilded chains are still tightly attached.

    Oh, I know, I know. We’ve been hearing for years how Justice Thomas, Dr. Rice, and Thomas Sowell aren’t “really” black.

  39. Graychin,

    Make that guilty conscience… 😐 That meet your pedantic tastes Graychin? I know you fulfill you satisfaction from gigging me like I do you – but you’re not that smart Graychin. I know you believe you’re smarter than all the rest of us here – but you’re not. You wish to keep making this personal. Okay. But you need to cut the whining about why I ride you…the above is exactly why I do what I do.

    I am a lot more “religious” than you are, even in the face of your condemnations.

    I agree – you’re incredibly “religious” Graychin. Righteous in your own mind. So is Obama, and Jimmy Carter and even Usama Bin Laden. They’re all religious and believe themselves perfected like you. I suspect with good reason, you preach a good game, but your life is anything but whole. A man who made in corporate America, then wishes to punish corporate America after he got his. I worked with your type for years, and purposely left it on account as your ilk disgusted me.

    You call me a hypocrite – I call you a phony. You call me a phony – I call you a Pharisee. You judge me as not Christian; I call you straight from the gates of hell, thankful your not my judge. Just as it is true you can measure a man by his spouse and his friends, you can also equally and truthfully measure a man by his enemies. Being your enemy is a badge of honor.

    You want to know why you and your wife live at the lake, living out your ‘fulfilling existence’ of pseudo-luxury? You give us that hooey about how you both loved it there and didn’t want to come back on Sunday night? Baloney. A blind man could see it. You two didn’t have anything else Graychin and still don’t.

    You bragged the other day about making volunteer payments. So what? There’s no sacrifice in doing so when you’ve got the funds – that didn’t cause you any personal hardship, nor is it a sacrifice. You write it in your ledger believing it demonstrates your profound goodness Herod. You’re the type that will make a donation and expect your name to be advertised in lights. If you were a member of any organized church, you would expect them to crown you at the altar for bringing colored toothpicks to the church picnic.

    You whine about me taking you to task about personal attacks and the like, then I give a half flippant answer to Rutherford which had nothing to do with you, supporting his viewpoint of the hypocrisy; in essence making a personal admission that there are indeed problems in the private world and they need to be called. And what do you do? Give me a sermon about how how hypocritical I am concerning my religion, as if somehow one’s “religion” makes one good. What a fool you are.

    Are you so naive to think I meant what I posted to Rutherford? Do you not recognize flippancy as a weak attempt at humor and to give Rutherford a smile? Unlike you, I like Rutherford.

  40. You frequently try to back away from your statements as a “weak attempt at humor.” But your comments are flippant even when they are supposedly serious.

    Nice try, but that excuse doesn’t wash. You are an ethical zero.

  41. Tigre,

    I’ll say this again. Graychin is such an authority on the “black community”, that he lives in a zip code with zero blacks. Graychin’s biggest virtue is he “talks a lot.”

    Let me tell you what Graychin really is. He’s the man in the Ivy League tower dictating to the rest of us how racist we are, as he also dictates for each of us how we should follow his lead. He’s the MSNBC crowd exclaiming how bigoted and prejudice society is, all the while surrounded by nothing but white faces.

    His actually real “works” are never revealed, but he leads you to believe that his example is the one we all should follow.

    ** VOMIT **

    Graychin, you are a puke.

  42. Tiger, you talk about the “black community” as if it’s all one thing that thinks alike. As if it acts in lockstep and speaks with one voice.” – Chin

    91%.

    9 out 10.

    You’re right, 91% is ALL, but it’s pretty fucking close.

  43. Nice try, but that excuse doesn’t wash. You are an ethical zero.

    And that would make you what? Negative?

    Let me give the fellow financial expert a lesson. My wife and I didn’t earn our credit by living on credit dipshit, so your credit score lesson is misleading – we never carry credit card balances, pay cash for the cars. Unless, like now, I “financed” my wife’s care at 1/2% interest – I’ll happily use Honda’s money for three years.

    Though I mortgaged my house, it was paid for in fifteen years – paying extra money towards a mortgage is asinine because it is no investment – your house is a place to live. I don’t find your financial advice terribly sound. I hope that’s not what you did for a living, because you’re poor at giving it.

    And while you’re at it, why don’t you demonstrate for all of us Graychin something besides talk and give us an example your profound sense of generosity and truthfulness?

    All those wonderful things you and “your lovely” spouse do for the minority community – besides let them mow your lawn and roof your house?

    You phony bastard. You can kiss my ass. 😈

  44. I can, with almost laser like precision, identify the driver of a vehicle by:
    A) the type of car
    B) by the bumper stickers

    Try it some time. Just observe. What kind of car, how is it detailed, what are its accessories- you’ll see a pattern. Around here- Cadillac and Chrysler 300s, with a smattering of Mercedes. Not for everyone of course, but an anecdotal observation I had driving south a couple weeks ago was that every Caddy I saw- with the exception of executive limos- had a black behind the wheel. It is interesting. Doesn’t mean anything good or bad, just interesting in the coincidence of who was driving what.

    Then look at the bumper stickers and see what you notice. Flaming liberals- regardless of race- tend to have multiple stickers. Women more so than men. But, if it is a solo Obama sticker, then it is likely a black behind the wheel. An exception I’ve noticed is minivans, those tend to be women, or someone pretending to be one. Again, anecdotal, but interesting in its consistency…

  45. You younger guys. When you read something like this from resident Eastern religion expert and karma philosopher, the same one that calls all of you racists for pointing out the obvious, read very closely:

    My present house probably dropped a lot in market value when the last bubble burst, but who gives a shit? I don’t owe on it and I’m not selling. Maybe my valuation for real estate taxes will go down!

    Did you get that? Who gives a shit? I don’t owe on it and I am not selling it? No skin off my ass if the world collapses. Do you read the wholesomeness of Classic liberalism – the one with the real, small ‘l’?

    Remember that when Graychin spins his tales of goodness and clarity of thought. How he and he alone is color blind, though not enough that he wish to share in the “diversity.” How he’s generous – but doesn’t really give a shit if your house depreciated, because – well, frankly he’s taken care of. How he pays his “volunteer payments”; a huge personal sacrifice.

    And think about John Kerry, Al Gore and Joe Biden. And remember back to when it was revealed all listed gave less than a $1,000 to charity while their estate worth millions, as they prattled on with their chests out and crowed like roosters about their concern for the “middle class.” That’s Graychin.

    And without a great deal of analysis and thought, maybe why I have always found Graychin’s sanctimony especially retching – for the same reasons I find Al Gore’s sermons about rising tides suspect when he buys the $9MM dollar beach house. 😉

  46. I read greychin’s rather long attack against tex twice. Outside of bigotry, I’m not sure I get the point. Rutherford, care to explain your buddy’s point?

  47. GH-chin says: “When you start talking about race in terms of individuals instead of falling into the old paradigms of racial identity, then perhaps Rutherford would be able to deal with a question from you that doesn’t have nonsense (“the black community”) at its core.”

    What the f**k are you talking about? The premise of this post centers on racial identity, hence the poll that was cited. Should I have just referred to them as “blacks” as Rutherford did?

  48. The black community voted for Obama for two reasons, and two reasons only. 1. He was black. 2. He was a democrat.
    Policy had nothing to do with it — and you know it. The black community was hoping for favoritism as it has been promised by the democrats since the civil rights movement, only this time a special brand of it.

    Mmmm, they voted for him because he was a Democrat and policy had nothing to do with it. You have any idea how dumb that sounds? People like Democrats (or Republicans) because of the policies they advocate. So we’ll dismiss point 2 and give you a pass for putting too much stupid syrup on your pancakes this morning.

    As for point 1: I have conceded that his “blackness” mattered a lot to blacks in the election. You have a hard time discerning the election from the actual execution of the office. The 91% figure disappoints me because I would expect more blacks to judge him on performance. Unlike you, I don’t expect blacks to be a monolithic bunch of welfare-loving robots. I EXPECT critical thinking. The 91% does not reflect critical thinking from my point of view.

    I find it VERY funny how I dismiss racism as a factor in the 91/36 racial gap and I instead point to a concern about blacks not exercising enough judgment, and I get an argument from you. It’s f*cking hilarious. You should be agreeing with me.

    Finally Tigre, this entire discussion is largely academic because if I were a betting man I’d wager you’ve NEVER lived among the “black community” and neither have I. I’m talking from my gut and you’re talking from watching too many episodes of “Good Times” and “Sanford and Son”. 😀

  49. I read greychin’s rather long attack against tex twice. Outside of bigotry, I’m not sure I get the point. Rutherford, care to explain your buddy’s point?

    Rabbit, I avoid getting in the middle of Gray and Tex’s religious battles. As a professed non-believer, I can only sit back slightly amused as they battle for who is the better Christian.

    I suspect, if heaven exists, that if we watched either of these guys in their day to day activities, we’d agree they’ve both earned a place behind the pearly gates. (Mmmm, “behind the pearly gates” … sounds more like prison than heaven. 🙂 )

  50. I have some very sad news to share. HippieProf, had a massive heart attack and died Sunday. I found this out from a comment on his blog.

    For any of you who enjoyed our debates, please visit the blog and leave your comments. As I said over there, I am speechless.

  51. HP’s last two blog posts were about bullying. He expressed the self-effacing notion that suffering from bullies as a child made him too wimpy in his blog battles. I wrote the following comment to him on Saturday and I sincerely hope he got to read it before he passed:

    HP, I wouldn’t presume to get into your head but I honestly think you play yourself cheap here.

    Could it possibly be that your experience has made you think that censorship in the blogosphere is just another form of bullying? Perhaps the sh*t you take on the blog is a reflection of hard-learned tolerance for others, even those with ideas and argument style that you find repugnant. You are the sum total of all your experiences, my friend and while those memories may be very painful, they have indeed help lead you where you are today.

    Success is the best revenge …. and you won. 🙂

  52. “R”,

    I don’t contend who is the better Christian – unlike the disciples who argued amongst themselves which one was greatest, I contend none of us great and all flawed. Therefore if Graychin were Christian, we would be equals and no more.

    Graychin’s game is in someways like your game – only while you pose your questions in a “gotcha” manner without too much grief, and I believe out of simple ignorance because you are uninterested. Fair enough. However, Graychin’s intent is far more insidious. He attacks the entire message, hoping that if he can prove Tex is fallible, hypocritical or uninformed, he can cast doubt on the entire message of Christ and its covenants.

    This is why I consider Graychin far and away the most wicked man I’ve met on the net. I should simply rebuke him, but he’s so arrogant, I can’t let go. It’s the pattern of every argument Graychin poses and without him recognizing it. Graychin hates Christianity. He’ll tell you he doesn’t, just the hypocrites, but he’s not worthy to judge who is a a hypocrite because he can’t discern properly. Further, if I am a hypocrite, it doesn’t change the message of Christ. Graychin may like to use me as scapegoat, but you will not he never misses an opportunity to mock the message of Christ’s divinity, or Genesis, or a host of other basic Christian tenets.

    The bottom line is that Graychin believes in his own goodness. It’s really as simple as that.

    To give you an example, Graychin’s tired mockery of my “study guides” with respect to Apologetics – the defense of the faith. He’s used the same line at least ten times. I don’t know what the fool thinks the Bible is but a study guide and road map. Graychin believes himself an authority on scripture, yet never realizes a Christian’s instruction says this:

    Jude 1:3-4
    although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints. For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

    I believe verse 4 is Graychin in spades.

  53. Rutherford, as for your pejorative bullshit, I considered suggesting you re-read my comment but there’s no point. You’re statement that DADT, single payer health care, etc. were or should be issues among the black community speaks volumes about your intellectual honesty on this subject.

    And, if you were a betting man you’d lose. Since I’ve told you otherwise on numerous occasions, I take your statement that I’ve never lived among the “black community” to mean that you are saying I am liar. Regardless of what purpose you think is served in smugly making the statement, you’re wrong. But obviously you don’t care about being wrong as much as you do about trying to convince us that you have some unique perspective when it comes to racial issues. If only you did.

  54. Hard as it might be to believe, Tigre, I don’t track the bios of everyone who comments here. I try to remember key biographical facts but I do slip now and then. So, if I missed your reference to living among blacks, I apologize.

    Why would blacks not care about health care reform? Why would blacks not care about any particular issue? Why are they only able to make sweeping political judgments “Oh yessah, I is a dem-o-crat.”. Your portrayal of blacks as simple-minded doesn’t sit right with me and if that is not what you mean to portray then you ought to articulate your views a bit better.

  55. Rutherford,

    Thank you for directing me to Hippie’s blog. I was a regular irregular there. When I got on a roll, I didn’t leave the man alone but sometimes I forgot to visit.

    I do know this much. For all of our battles, and short of you I probably battled with Hippie the most, I liked him. I think I let him know as much on those last couple of threads, and for that I will be forever grateful that he wrote those heartfelt posts so that we could share some personals.

    This sickens me, as Jim was only a few years older than us. I don’ t know if you remember both my guilt and my grief about the friend in Washington that I shared once with you. I feel similar at this moment.

  56. Tex, I think Hippie’s last two blog posts were a great testament to the man and they gave us all a chance to know him better and tell him how we sympathized with him. I’d like to comfort myself in thinking that he read the stuff that some of us posted Saturday evening, but I doubt he did.

    I truly think I am crazy to be shedding tears over people I have never met but this is the second time within a month that I have lost an “internet friend” and it is amazing how crushing the loss is.

    My wife is from Illinois and I was actually thinking last week that the next time we went out there, I would look Hippie up. Life deals us some tough blows.

  57. “R”,

    What bothers me most is not the fights I had with Hippie, and they were legend, but something he posted as recently as last week. Really bothers me… 😦

    And though I know you think I am nuts (and sometimes an asshole too – I am), I can not help but think about you when I think about Hippie.

    We can take it off-line some day as it immensely personal, but I really wish you’d give consideration to reconsidering a few things in your life. I was just getting ready to write a post that told you that you were the one person on this thread (Sensico too if she ever reappears) that I can fully comprehend and appreciate why you voted for Obama. Ironically, I also find it revealing you are the one from your side of the aisle most honest about the man’s shortcomings. When you are being intellectually honest, I thoroughly enjoy your posts and some of those don’t necessarily agree with my opinions. I actually thought Hippie was pretty good too when he put the blatant partisanship aside and shot straight. I know, I should do it more myself. :wink;

    Ironically, that was my next comment. You threw a real shock into my and I didn’t want to forget to tell you that.

  58. “Your portrayal of blacks as simple-minded doesn’t sit right with me and if that is not what you mean to portray then you ought to articulate your views a bit better.”

    No. If you’d get off your high horse when it comes to racial issues you would understand what I said — well if you bothered to read it.

    I too liked HP, even when I didn’t agree with him. In fact, he said something quite kind to me in our last exchange. That makes the news harder to bear.

    I am very sorry to hear of his death and in no mood to respond to any more of your perosnal attacks. You win. You’re black, I’m white. Your observations count, mine don’t. If I’ve said something that strikes you as unflattering, I’m a racist. . .

  59. Rabbit @ #56:

    Just to clear up some confusion you seem to have picked up…

    I don’t speak for Rutherford. My opinions are my own, not his – unless he chooses to agree with them. My initial post in this thread was very critical of Rutherford’s conclusions, but I tried to be nice about it because I respect Rutherford.

    Likewise, I’m not his “buddy” unless he chooses to call me that.

    If you still don’t understand what I said to Tex, I’ll be happy to do my best to explain it to you. It thought it was pretty clear.

    Any questions?

  60. Yeah guy, I don’t understand what you said to Tex.

    Other then kind of agreeing with him on the point and then bashing his faith, it really didn’t make much sense to me.

    I appealed to Rutherford only because your response was so bigoted and pointless I wanted him to admit as such. He didn’t take the bait.

    You baby boomers kill me…always bragging about your financial prowess.

  61. Rutherford and Tiger:

    If I may butt in, it seems to me that both of you are hung up on the idea of a “black community.” I tried to make fun of that concept in an earlier comment when I referred to the “white community” as if whites were a unified, homogeneous group. They aren’t. Neither is the “black community.”

    When I read sweeping references here to the “black community” and to “black culture,” it seems to me that we are falling into the same old traps of identity politics and racial stereotypes.

    Rutherford shouldn’t have been so disappointed in the “black community”‘s response to that poll without asking some more probing questions. Of course Tiger believes that racism in America has been extinct since at least 1965, and that blacks are nothing but whiners. But both of you are operating under the same false assumption of a “black community” that can be discussed intelligently as a unified whole.

    Someone commented that the fact that blacks consistently vote 90% + for Democrats proves them guilty of groupthink and homogeneity. I disagree. The Republican “southern strategy” has been to cast blacks as villains to white voters ever since the Civil Rights legislation of the 1960’s and and the politics introduced by Nixon and perfected by the likes of Atwater and Rove. If the racism of the Southern Strategy is that obvious to lily-white people like me, perhaps it’s even more obvious to many black voters. That isn’t groupthink – it’s realism.

    Would Jews vote for Nazis? No. Is that groupthink? Not at all.

    Comments?

  62. “I don’t know what the fool thinks the Bible is but a study guide and road map.”

    The Bible is NOT a study guide. It’s the original source material.

    Isn’t the difference obvious?

  63. D.R.,

    I don’t know what to make of Graychin’s supposed field of expertise, but the baloney above about building your credit score by taking on debt is hogwash. That’s the second fastest way to lower your credit score – the fastest way to lower your credit score is stiff your creditors.

    You build credit three ways: (1) You make your payments on time if you have them; (2) your debt to equity ratio is low and you have small debt balances with a history of stability; (3) you have a long history of current payment with the fewest number of outstanding loans, including credit cards.

    It’s commendable to live debt free. I don’t knock people who do it. It carries little or no risk, and the older you get, the smarter that is. But if my wife and I had followed Graychin’s advice about paying cash for everything in our 30s, I wouldn’t be parked on my ass telling you this. I would be worried about exactly how we were going to live on social security.

    Probably preaching to the choir, but here’s my advice to any guy your age – learn the magic of compound interest, invest 10% of your paycheck in an equity fund or at a minimum whatever an employer will match no matter the percent, live within your means, and then forget and don’t stress about it. I’d even buy some gold and commodities to diversify.

    If you can do that and still pay cash for everything, great. But few can do that and for most, it’s not realistic.

  64. The Bible is NOT a study guide. It’s the original source material. Isn’t the difference obvious?

    Did you ever meet Dan? If not, you need to. You are by definition the stiffest, most obtuse idiot I ever debated with – until I met Dan. Now you’ve got real competition with semantics.

    I originally used the word “study guides” for you because I figured you were too superficial and shallow to understand the word concordance.

    When you were in school, did you consider the teacher’s instruction as “study guide.” Or something less because it wasn’t the textbook? If not, it might explain some of your confusion, but not all.

    I consider God’s instruction, whether original material or tool based directly from the original material a “study guide”, just like a I consider a school book and a teachers notes a “study guide” for education and testing.

    Besides, why do you concern yourself Mr. Pragmatic about semantics? I understood you to consider THE BOOK a compilation of Aesop’s fables, mixed with some nice stories. Of course, it’s the one “study guide” that stands a hope of bringing Jim Dougan’s family hope this evening – and I’ll bet ten dollars to a donut that Jim will buried under the auspices of a mass. And in that service, the only “hope” that will be provided is the promise of life through Jesus Christ – that Jesus that you deny the very provisions HE said that HE set forth.

    It won’t be your empty rhetoric about all things relative they will hear I hope – but I guess your message of your own goodness and piety will just have to do for your loved one. You’ll forgive me if I don’t find your message terribly consoling.

  65. Man, I liked hippieprof. I could always tell deep down he was a humble dude. I remember he told me that I, in fact, would enjoy having a few beers with him. I remember thinking he was right. I should have told him so.

  66. An undergraduate textbook is a kind of study guide. So is the professor’s lecture. If the subject is history, you have to dig deep to get to the original documents.

    Not so much for literature. We can always read the original text of a novel – or at least an English translation of it. Or we can read one of the many English translations of the Bible itself. Digging deep isn’t as necessary in those fields of study.

    A study guide for the Bible is like Cliff’s Notes for The Odyssey. It’s an outline that hits the points that the guide’s author deems important. It’s a poor substitute for reading the original, and should be used only to introduce callow undergrads to the material.

    Apologetics is a field of study in which one starts with the hypothesis and then goes in search of evidence that supports that hypothesis. Every effort is made to explain away contradictory evidence and to ignore it altogether when that is impossible. It is the polar opposite of science or real scholarship, in which one forms the hypothesis that best fits all of the available evidence. Scientists often find themselves disgraced for attempting to use the “apologetics” approach to their discipline – cherry-picking the evidence to fit their pet hypothesis.

    Apologetics is junk scholarship. And students who rely on “study guides” to the Bible for their answers are no more advanced than undergraduates who rely on the Cliff’s Notes version of their object of study.

  67. Graychin,

    Truthfully, you should leave well enough alone and stick with tax or some nebulous political argument; a subject more suited to your inferior nature. This is twice today I’ve witnessed you spout off on subjects you have no clue, nor are you obviously even acquainted.

    A study guide for the Bible is like Cliff’s Notes for The Odyssey. It’s an outline that hits the points that the guide’s author deems important. It’s a poor substitute for reading the original, and should be used only to introduce callow undergrads to the material.

    A concordance of the Bible goes Chapter by Chapter and verse by verse in far more detailed that the “original subject material.” An apologist concordance actually goes into corresponding texts, literature, history, the Aramaic, Hebrew, or Greek translations, and sometimes even the metaphorical references with respect to Eastern Culture. You are a poor excuse for a critic. In fact, you don’t even rise to the level of critic, as critic presupposes some reference or level of expertise. You are a novice – milquetoast.

    Every effort is made to explain away contradictory evidence and to ignore it altogether when that is impossible. It is the polar opposite of science or real scholarship, in which one forms the hypothesis that best fits all of the available evidence. Scientists often find themselves disgraced for attempting to use the “apologetics” approach to their discipline – cherry-picking the evidence to fit their pet hypothesis.

    You don’t even criticize well. The Bible is not a book of science or a physics problem. It not proven or unproven with a hypothesis. You obviously don’t even understand something as simple as the scientific method which requires something that can be repeated and observed. Wake up fool and stick with arguing something apropos for retirees on Eucha and Grand Lake – like OU football.

    The Bible is judge by the evidence – if you are going to try and make some analogy to judge, try a court room next time. And a court room doesn’t use the scientific method dummy. It uses the evidentiary method. And the evidence is overwhelming in its accuracy – you still haven’t disproved a thing, even with continually throwing baseless charges, hoping something sticks.

    The only thing you may have partial gotten right in your critique is that salvation does require a measure of faith – not faith on ignorance but evidence. And I choose to believe that Jesus Christ is who He claimed because the evidence is overwhelming – then and now.

    You deny that because you always deny the truth and choose to continue to live in your miserable, lonely existence. So be it.

  68. G-chin says, “Of course Tiger believes that racism in America has been extinct since at least 1965, and that blacks are nothing but whiners . . .”

    Well, an attempt at intervention, I guess, but as misguided as Rutherford’s. I said nothing of the sort — and this dialogue is a waste of time.

    Rutherford discusses a lack of judgment from “blacks,” then refuses to engage the point because I mentioned the “black community”. I speak of institutional racism, he accuses me of personal racism. I claim personal experience, he proclaims that I’m igorant. And so it goes. Typical. One should wonder what the point of the post was.

    Rutherford has no interest in my thoughts, so I marvel at his belief that should have interest in his. I regret that’s how this works around here when you’re not tenured.

    What I do share with everyone here is that there are good folks behind the comments. That goes for Hippie, Rutherford and unquestionably Hippie.

    Rutherford, your prior post about the death of an internet pal just hit home.

  69. I’m sitting here watching the drama unfold with these trapped Chilean miners and got to thinking about traveling up that tube in the dark for more than half a mile. It was stressful enough just imagining that ride, I had to get up and walk around. I could not sit still.

    Tonight I say a prayer for the miners and a special prayer that panic does not set in.

    Terrifying. I could never be a miner.

  70. We can always read the original text of a novel – or at least an English translation of it. Or we can read one of the many English translations of the Bible itself. Digging deep isn’t as necessary in those fields of study.

    Except that the English translations don’t really yield as much in the way of understanding as the greek texts do. But I guess it is easier to dip your pinky toe into deep waters and then smuggly declare that you know all that you need to of the depth.

    A study guide for the Bible is like Cliff’s Notes for The Odyssey. It’s an outline that hits the points that the guide’s author deems important. It’s a poor substitute for reading the original, and should be used only to introduce callow undergrads to the material.

    Except just reading the English text isn’t likely to illuminate the “why”s for someone, like “why did Paul come down against women in the priesthood?” or “What did Paul and Barnabas quarrel over?”, or that a word in English here or there does not fully encapsulate the concept conveyed in the Greek or Aramaeic texts.

    But please, pretend that skimming the text has made all things clear to you and invalidated the deeper instruction and investigation of others.

    There are times when I believe that you cannot help being a complete and utter tool. This is one of them.

  71. Sorry so late to the discussion. You said…

    I think the 91% job approval rating among blacks is an utter embarrassment. Blacks should be consistent with the Democratic number or the Liberal number. Even if we allow for some race-bias, the number then should perhaps jump to 82 or 83%. But 91%?

    I’m not sure I understand. Dems give him a 79% approval rating. Black folk gave him 12% better approval rating. Are you suggesting that 79% of the Dems are foolish to give him a positive approval rating? Or are you suggesting that something like 12% of black folk are foolish for not being more harsh in their approval ratings?

    I’m not sure I get the strength of this rebuke.

  72. I was thinking about my late political opponent and friend, still somewhat in shock in reading of his death. So I went searching to find out what Jim Dougan aka Hippie Professor looked like.

    For anyone interested, I found this picture without the rock and roll garb. Jim even “looks” like a pleasant professor and gentleman. I will miss my friend.

    http://dmci.com/knights/band.html

  73. Here’s another back to the rock and roll scene. 😆 I wish I had found these before Jim passed away. I’d have made my gravatar Jim’s Jerry Garcia picture just to pull his chain.

    And I’ll bet a million bucks he would have laughed out loud.

  74. Dan – good to meet you.

    You latched on to the very same point that I did (see #15).

    Yes – blacks were just a bit more likely to approve of Obama’s job performance than Democrats. Most blacks are Democrats.

    So why did this set Rutherford off? I’m still not sure.

    It’s nice to have a kindred spirit around here. Makes the place seem just a bit less hostile.

  75. Yeah Tex, in that second pic, Jim is second from the left. He did look like quite the character didn’t he?

    To all, a person I believe to be his wife said she would post funeral arrangements to his Facebook page but I have not seen them yet. Should I see them in the next day or so, I’ll post them here. Also keep an eye on his blog as the info may get posted as a comment there.

  76. The utter senselessness of life: 33 men live 2000 feet below the earth’s surface and each one is being rescued as we speak and a man seemingly in no danger at all suddenly passes away, just minding his own business and going about his own life.

    How do you make sense of that?

    I’m signing off for the night. Those of you with loved ones nearby, give them a hug and remind them you care. Tomorrow is not guaranteed.

  77. Since I seem to have disappointed both the “right” and the “left” with this article, perhaps one last attempt at clarification is necessary (not that it’s my job to make any of you guys “happy”).

    Had I just seen the numbers in a vacuum, I would not have considered them worthy of a blog post. First, it’s Gallup which changes like the winds. Second, sadly, the 91% isn’t that big of a shock.

    What prompted the blog post was Travis Smiley’s assessment that these numbers say something about racism in America. THAT pissed me off. Why jump to the racism conclusion when one could just as easily wonder what black people are smoking to get behind Obama to the tune of 91%.

    Truth be told, even the 79 and 75% numbers for Dems and Libs is a bit embarrassing. I am an Obama supporter but considering the state we’re in, I wouldn’t expect him to get better than 65% support from ANY group.

    I hope that makes things a bit clearer.

    Gray and Dan, I COMPLETELY agree that the “black community” is meaningless. Folks behave as individuals and unfortunately polls like these lead us to group assessments. I maintain the 91% figure fits Tigre’s world view. I would love to have seen a 65% figure so I could challenge Tigre’s world view. Alas, it did not happen.

  78. D.R. (and you know Gorilla and BIC would like one too)

    You know those bangers that have been flashing you gang signals? What you need to do is purchase yourself a flashlight – guaranteed neighborhood control.

    “Shines” the light on the roaches and guaranteed to exterminate any of the little boogers that interrupt your son and you in the park during off hours.

    Troubles will come and troubles will go, but they go faster with a little help from your friends. 😉

  79. “R”,

    I actually thought your analysis good and right on. The number I’m having a hard time believing is that “Democrats” give Obama a 79% approval rating.

    Not if you are to believe the projected election results, they aren’t.

    In defense of El Tigre, if I am not mistaken, isn’t Tigre from Atlanta? Anyone familiar with Atlanta like I am knows exactly what Tigre is talking about.

    Let us remember Atlanta is home to Freaknik…

  80. So all you folks who claim to have the ability to sniff out hypocrisy must be utterly disgusted over the fear mongering attacks rather than answers to America’s problems by this administration this campaign season.

    You must be equally sickened over the fact that David Axelrod is accusing the US Chamber of Commerce of the EXACT same web site tactic to hide the origin of donations that Obama used in his 2008 presidential campaign.

    And it must really piss you off that Obama expects other people to produce documents to prove him wrong about things he alleges about them, while he has no problem hiding his own documents that would prove him right about things people have alleged about him.

    Yeah, you guys are all over the hypocrisy by this administration. I guess you are just saving your outrage for private discussions.

  81. Let us remember Atlanta is home to Freaknik…

    Let us also remember that Atlanta is home to “Real Housewives of Atlanta”, none of whom are looking for handouts and probably vote Republican. 🙂 Atlanta is the black upwardly mobile capital of the country.

    BTW, Tex, love your flashlight,. 🙂

  82. Tex, Atlanta is also the birthplace of the civil rights movement (some of the most prominent members of which I have worked with), some of my black family members (that can’t be, right?), and our black friends and neighbors. Frankly, Rutherford’s comments are the most racist/bigoted on the board.

    I am able to have more candid discussions concerning issues of race with those that Rutherford wagers I am insulated from. Yep. The “scary black people” Greychin accused me of fearing in prior comments about the NBPP. Being accused of intolerance and lectured to by Greychin and Rutherford strikes me as having some kind of Freudian component to it.

  83. Rutherford – you should also keep in mind that polls aren’t taken in a vacuum.

    I give Obama’s presidency so far mixed reviews at best. I’m happy enough about what has been accomplished, but deeply disappointed about what has NOT been accomplished. But when you ask me if I “approve or disapprove,” the response that pops immediately into my mind is “compared to what?”

    I’m sure that I still approve of this administration a lot more than I would have approved of another Bush term, or of President McCain, or of President Palin, or (God forbid) President Romney or Gingrich in 2013. Perhaps the mythical “black community” is reacting the same way. They might have an especially keen appreciation of what an administration of radicalized Republicans in 2013 would mean.

    Disappointed as we lefties may be, I’m still seeing the glass as half full. You see it as half empty, and are shocked that most lefties don’t see it the same way.

    But it makes plenty of sense to me.

  84. Tiger, you are absolutely right about one thing. Even after I have read so much of what you have written here, your worldview is a complete mystery to me.

    I can only imagine.

  85. some of my black family members

    Ahhhh, now we’re getting somewhere! You got a little soul brother in you Tigre, or some inter-marriage stuff?

    So now you’ve opened an avenue worth exploring. Are your black relatives and friends conservative? How do they feel about Obama? Seriously, if you can muster up a blog post about your observations, I’d be glad to give you a guest blog post.

  86. Well Gray, I’m not expecting more than half Dem’s to be anti-Obama. Heck, if all I had was an approve/disapprove choice, I’d pick approve. I wouldn’t say I see the glass half empty.

    We’ll have to see if the 75 and 79 and 91% figures translate to voter turnout on November 2. I have a terrible feeling they won’t.

  87. Huck, maybe this merited its own blog post but David Axelrod’s assertion that the GOP needs to prove they are NOT getting foreign funds (i.e. prove a negative) is the worst form of intellectual dishonesty.

    I am frankly puzzled that the Dem’s are pulling this non-starter out of their holster. In a year when all you have to do is point to O’Donnell, Paladino, Buck, etc, why in heaven’s name would you need to rely on the foreign money scare?

    Plus, as I think I heard one pundit say, how ironic that libs appeal to xenophobia as a campaign tactic?

    So, in short … you’ll get no argument from me on this one.

  88. “Tigre’s “world view” is unknown to you.

    Q: Probably true. Is that my fault or yours?”

    A: Yours.

    “some of my black family members”

    Q: So now you’ve opened an avenue worth exploring. Are your black relatives and friends conservative? How do they feel about Obama?

    A: You would probably call my family members conservative, but they wouldn’t call themselves republican (marriage by the way). Friends, neighbors and colleagues, universally democrat (with the exception of one I can think of — and he’s gay, how about that?).

    Family members think that Obama’s a disaster. I have been told of the belief that the democratic party and the dependency it engenders keeps the black community socially repressed. I share that view — but for some reason it seems that I’m not allowed to have that perception around here without being labeled a bigot or some variation of one.

    What I said about the polling, is consistent with the rest.

    Funny that none dispute what you and Greychin do about the reasons stated for Obama’s popularity, nor to my knowledge have any said that they thought me to be bigoted or racist. Why do you think that is R? (that’s rhetorical — we all know why).

  89. BTW, thanks for the offer to guest blog, but I’m entirely too lazy and would find it too difficult to maintain anonymity to fully express myself.

  90. “R”,

    Glad you liked the flashlight. I only half agree with your statement about blacks “upward” mobility in Atlanta. 😐

    Suburbs are great. One of America’s more livable big cities, except like every big city, the traffic sucks. Since traveling to Houston and cuddling up to the Mrs., I have decided that is my new favorite big city. Down by Rice and out by Katy (where Mrs. Tex is) is outstanding – except the traffic. Mom told me to stay in Tulsa, because we aren’t moving there when she decides to retire or gets the boot. 😆

  91. “Let us also remember that Atlanta is home to “Real Housewives of Atlanta”, none of whom are looking for handouts and probably vote Republican.”

    You watch too much tv.

  92. “Heck, if all I had was an approve/disapprove choice, I’d pick approve.”

    There you go. I think that’s all the choice that people in the poll had. Approve or disapprove.

    So are those black voters really so disappointing?

    Black and white. Liberal and conservative. Old and young. Approve or disapprove. There’s no indication about WHY anyone was dissatisfied. Don’t they like anything he has done, or don’t they think he has done enough? Both show up as a “disapprove.”

    As I said earlier, this one poll question is a lot more meaningful as a moving picture than as a snapshot.

  93. We hear that the Chamber of Commerce is funneling tons of money from anonymous sources into attack ads against Democrats. I think that the Democrats are fighting back with the wrong arguments when they complain about possible foreign sources.

    They should be pointing out the cowardice and possible sinister motives of people who spend that kind of money to influence our elections while being unwilling to take responsibility for what they are doing. We we have no idea about the real agendas of these generous but anonymous sugar daddies. Good government? Maybe.

    Maybe not.

    It doesn’t bother me at all that foreign interests might be providing the money. It DOES bother me that so much money is allowed to speak anonymously and without accountability to anyone. THAT is the issue – not that some of the money might be from foreign interests like BP or Royal Dutch Shell.

    But five Supreme Court justices thought that unlimited anonymous money has the right to free speech under the First Amendment, so I guess we’ll just have to put up with this poison in our political system from now on.

    Is this what the founding fathers intended? I doubt it, but I haven’t seen much concern from Originalists about the influence of unlimited anonymous money in American politics. They seem to kinda like it. Gives ’em a tingle down their leg.

    As for the numerous factual errors and downright lies in these attack ads? Same old same old. Keeping up with and debunking lies in campaign season is like trying to snuff out a grass fire in a high wind with your boots.

  94. Tiger, when you obsess about something as inconsequential as the New Black Panthers (or whatever they call themselves), it might lead some of us to believe that you have more of a problem with alleged nutcases who are black than with alleged nutcases who are white.

    Are you worried about the Republican running for Congress in Ohio who enjoys dressing up like a Nazi and reenacting their WWII battles? Neither am I, but he is just as consequential as the “scary black people” who make up the Panthers.

    (I guessed right – your “black family” is by marriage, and no doubt it’s by someone else’s marriage.)

  95. Since traveling to Houston and cuddling up to the Mrs., I have decided that is my new favorite big city. … Mom told me to stay in Tulsa, because we aren’t moving there when she decides to retire or gets the boot. 😆

    I’m an Austin man myself. 🙂

    Your last comment confused me a bit. The Mrs. does or does NOT want to retire to Tulsa?

  96. Graychin, you are literally too stupid to insult.

    I don’t care about the NBPP. I care about the Justice Departments racist policy. You know, the institutional racism you idiots claim to decry.

    “I guessed right – your “black family” is by marriage, and no doubt it’s by someone else’s marriage.”

    I guessed right. You’re both a moron and a douche-bag. Care to explain your point?

  97. (I guessed right – your “black family” is by marriage, and no doubt it’s by someone else’s marriage.)

    OH NO YOU DIDN’T

    Waiting for the explosion:
    5
    4
    3
    2
    1 ….

  98. They should be pointing out the cowardice and possible sinister motives of people who spend that kind of money to influence our elections while being unwilling to take responsibility for what they are doing. We we have no idea about the real agendas of these generous but anonymous sugar daddies. Good government? Maybe.

    You mean like all the foreign money contributions to Sweet Barry O’s Presidential Campaign, including the bigassed and illegal contributions from the Hamas supporter?

    You’re right about one part of this…then Dems do not want anyone going down this road.

    But five Supreme Court justices thought that unlimited anonymous money has the right to free speech under the First Amendment, so I guess we’ll just have to put up with this poison in our political system from now on

    Thank you, Mr. Drama.

    Have you actually read the case and researched the cases cited in the opinions, or are you going from the Constitutional Scholar in the White House’s Erroneous Cliff’s Notes Opinon?

    I only ask because I did, and Alito was right. The finger-wagger in chief told a whopper during the SOTU.

  99. Tigre, regarding your family, you may or may not find this amusing.

    A few nights ago my wife and I watched an interview with notorious atheist Richard Dawkins who happened to mention that we are ALL African.

    By happenstance, my six year old asked about being African a few nights later and my wife, with a wink, told her everyone came from Africa if we go back far enough. Seeing the firestorm on the horizon, I advised my daughter: “Don’t go saying that at school as some people might not like hearing that theory”. 🙂

    P.S. Since I don’t expect you to remember my bio any more than I can remember yours, my wife is white … just for the sake of reference.

  100. BiW as hard as you may find this to believe I am increasingly becoming a man of principle and not a man of party. So “the Dem’s do it too” argument doesn’t move me so much. Sadly we are governed mostly by hypocrites.

    Oh and in an unrelated note … and for the record … Jerry Brown’s folks were not saying that Meg Whitman spreads her legs for any paying customer. That she would suggest that “whore” in this commonly used case, is pejorative against her is absurd.

    Still …. leave it to a Democrat to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. It may very well lose him the damn election.

  101. Governor Moonbeam’s moment of cranial-rectal inversion is not damning because no one believes that people don’t talk like that about opponents. It is damning because of a lifelong affiliation with a party that has presumed offense as a tenent of belief (except when a member of one identity member group is in competition with another for office–then “equality” takes a backseat to a pecking order) that would not hesitate to spin it to its own advantageif a party opponent make the mistake of uttering it under circumstances where it could be republished.

    BiW as hard as you may find this to believe I am increasingly becoming a man of principle and not a man of party. So “the Dem’s do it too” argument doesn’t move me so much.

    I suppose I’d be moved by this declaration of integrity if the outrage was present at the time the Dems were doing it.

    BTW, the statement was more a demonstration that the Dems have been guilty of it, not an affirmation that yours or the Chin’s hyperbole about this in relation to Citizen’s United was remotely correct or factually sound.

  102. Gov. Moonbeam should be removed for the simple reason he was a very large party to the inane ruling class that has California sinking into the abyss. It’s been a Dimocratic state for 20 years, and gazillion dollar deficits has been the result. Predictable lib politics. New York will soon follow. I hope and pray Wall Street renames and relocates to some Southern locale while pissing on Bloomberg’s leg in the process – icing for the cake.

    If I could pick one shrew to lose in this election, it would definitely be Babs Boxer. She’s so awful, even the pinko S.F. Chronicle refuses to endorse her. But dredge up about 5MM illegals, 2MM abortion at all cost hags, 4MM dopers, and another 8MM slackers and surfer dudes, and I’m sure Babs will win by 2-3% points.

  103. I am cracking up over some of these claims that the black “community” is “mythical.”.

    PC bullshit of the highest order.

    Yeah, dreamers. There are no consistent collective attributes to be found of the biases and points of view of black people.

    I love reading your tripe with the damn gallop poll numbers in my peripheral vision.

  104. Gray 🙂

    Tex – you have a problem with slackers?

    Only the ones that vote Dimocratic or live in Eucha. If they’re both, that’s inherently evil! 😉

  105. Rabbit, be sure to view your Christmas wish flashlight present from above. You’ll probably want to buy the Mrs. one too. Maybe even Jr. for future use.

    And like you, I’m not sure what the hub bub is over the term “black community.” Good Lawd, what is Rev. Jeremiah Wright’s church?

  106. R, I knew how the term “whore” was meant. So does Biw. we use it all the time in the legal community. It means someone that can be bought. Those are our expert witnesses. But the beauty of the distortion is its direction this time.

  107. Holy shit. I need to get a FM-G9

    The first thing that came to my mind is that I will finally get me that 12 point buck….i can shine and then mow him down at 3 in the morn’!

  108. I quit the union negotiating team. I told them the truth. I just don’t give a fuck. It came down to softball or union shit last night. They are not happy.

  109. OK … DR let’s get real for a minute. You know as well as I do that there is a fine line between calling out the common characteristics of a group of people and using those characteristics to besmirch an entire group of people.

    I think one of the interesting things about a lot of attributes assigned to the “black community” is that they really are more about the church-going Southern community. Much black music (no not rap) has its roots in the church.

    Why do you think some Italian-American groups get their panties in a knot over “Jersey Shore” or “The Sopranos”? In the end most folks like to be assessed as individuals.

  110. Rabbit:

    I guess it’s obvious that you and I are both members of the “white community.”

    We both like softball. Is that a “white” thing?

    What else do we have in common? Not much.

    You could even say that Tex and I share membership in the “white community.” Even less in common there, eh? Zero, in fact. And he’s not exactly what I would call a “credit to his race.”

    Rutherford said “In the end most folks like to be assessed as individuals.” Not just like to be – SHOULD be. Of course it’s less work to pass judgment by someone’s ethnicity. It’s also a badge of ignorance.

    I don’t expect you to get it, but I’m glad you clarified exactly where you stand in #130.

    There’s a name for it: prejudice. To “pre-judge.”

    Tiger – you can just f..k off. If you don’t get it yet, I doubt that anyone can explain it to you.

  111. Gray,

    You could even say that Tex and I share membership in the “white community.” Even less in common there, eh? Zero, in fact. And he’s not exactly what I would call a “credit to his race.”

    That’s disheartening. I mean, it really it tears me up that I can’t be a part of your very small community. But that does beg the question.

    I was just thinking today while I actually was working how unjust life can be. Here we’ve got Jim Dougan passing away, and Jim had at least three redeeming qualities – unlike you, Jim was likable, interesting and a gentleman. Yet here you are still alive.

    I know of at least five here alone that have mourned Jim’s passing, me included. How many of us do you think are going to mourn if you happened to step eternity tonight? Yeller Dawg? You think many are going to run over to your blog and leave sweet memories? 😈

    I hate to tell you this, but I think you phenomenally inflate your real worth sport.

  112. “I think one of the interesting things about a lot of attributes assigned to the “black community” is that they really are more about the church-going Southern community.”

    R, I have never heard that definiton of “black comminity,” nor is that one I understood applied by Obama whom I assume you would say is a member of the “black community.” Why would the “black community” care about DADT when the voting block on prop 8 showed an entirely different trend?

    I think you are trying to find a reason for offense. You entire post is predicated on polling for vartious ethnic groups. You look at them and say that “blacks” lack judgment. I say “black community” and the response is to try and extrapolate something improper?

    I really wonder if any of the commentary on this would have taken place if say Hippie had used the term rtaher than me. I doubt it. You wouldn’t be seeking to impugn his motives so it would serve no purpose.

    As I type, the news is reporting on the “Chilean community’s” reaction to the miner situation. I guess I should be offended for those that are Chilean but don’t consider themselves members of the “Chilean community.”

    I see this as another exmple of how overblown sensitvites and an out-of-control pc culture (really rooted in self-righteousness)stifle meaningful dialogue. And in this instance, deliberately so.

  113. Tex, the song says that only the good die young. The Hippie Prof’s passing is evidence that it’s still true. I expect you and I to lead very long lives.

    And I know that my passing wouldn’t sadden anyone (still) here, except perhaps Rutherford. Rutherford is the only regular here who ever shows an ounce of compassion for others.

    Tiger, I have never heard of a malevolent coward who wasn’t also a grown man. The young haven’t yet learned the ins and outs of malevolence, nor have they learned about all the things they might fear. You really put more thought into your insults, not just type the first things that come to mind.

    Come to think of it, you ought to put more thought into most of your posts.

  114. Except that old fable about only the good die young is fable of the highest order. I can show you plenty of good ones that lived to a grand old age Graychin.

    Death does not discriminate and compassion and empathy will not another minute buy. Rutherford would miss you shared philosophy…

  115. Death does not discriminate and compassion and empathy will not another minute buy.

    One of your more profound comments Tex, and I say that without sarcasm.

    I hit the inevitable phase II of mourning today when I published my latest blog post and made the mistake of thinking “Can’t wait for Hippie to weigh in on this one.”

    It reminds me of when my mother died. It was months before I lost the urge to call her and tell her about something that had just happened.

  116. It reminds me of when my mother died. It was months before I lost the urge to call her and tell her about something that had just happened.

    Terrible analogy and forgive me after using your own mother, but I’m still going through that loss with my pet. It’s been over three months, and I still expect Sam to “talk” to me every morning like he did when I woke him up, to meet me when I walked in the backyard, to look out and watching tormenting the birds like only he could as he hopped across the backyard like a reindeer.

    The other day, I opened the gate to get him to go with me someplace – then realized I will never see him again without God’s assistance. I was profoundly saddened like I haven’t been in a few months.

    You’re a good guy Mr. Rutherford. Like Jim, I’d love to meet you one day. You remember that when I go off on you sometimes.

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