Colbert: Effective on so Many Levels

When I awoke Friday morning I did not expect to spend the better part of the morning watching a congressional hearing on migrant farm workers. Call me ignorant but the topic held zero interest for me. While eating breakfast, my wife alerted me that one of my favorite satirists, Stephen Colbert of Comedy Central’s “Colbert Report” would be testifying to Congress, in character. This was a potential train wreck that I just could not resist watching. To my surprise, I was fully drawn into the hearing with Colbert’s appearance ending up only incidental to the attention I gave.

So for starters, Colbert’s presence was effective at the most base level. It caused me to watch and learn something I would otherwise have ignored. Secondly, by Colbert playing his faux Conservative role to the hilt, he highlighted the most ignorant aspects of conservative social policy. One of his best lines was “I don’t want a tomato picked by a Mexican. I want it picked by an American, then sliced by a Guatemalan, and served by a Venezuelan, in a spa where a Chilean gives me a Brazilian.” He closed with “I trust that following my testimony, both sides will work together on this issue in the best interests of the American people as you always do.” The digs were a pleasure to watch as the idiot Congressional panel looked at him dumbfounded. One Democratic Congresswoman from California is seen reading her smart-phone. Republican Congressman Steven King looks on not the least bit amused. Some pundits from both the right and left were apoplectic. Congress had jumped the shark by inviting Colbert, snorted MSNBC’s Chuck Todd. Some accused Colbert of trivializing the plight of migrant farm workers. The only thing Colbert trivialized, and rightfully so, is the posturing bull crap that passes for the legislative process in Washington.

After a few Congressmen asked Colbert dumb questions to which he supplied dumb answers, California Congresswoman Judy Chu gave Colbert a chance to get serious and he finally did.

When asked why the plight of immigrant farm workers interested him, Colbert replied that he is always interested in those without power. In a nation supposedly guided by Christian principles such as caring for the least of our brothers, why do we allow immigrant farm workers both legal and illegal to be taken advantage of? Why do we encourage “illegals” to work our farms but then yell and scream about how they should be deported?

Personally it incenses me that in a country with a real unemployment rate of about 15% that farm owners are hiring illegal aliens and not hiring unemployed Americans. This brings us however to the crux of the problem. Are we Americans so snobby that there are certain jobs that we simply will not do? When a “Take Our Jobs” program was announced in order to attract legal immigrants and citizens to farm work, only six people wound up permanently employed. The argument then goes, with no Americans willing to work the fields, farms will go under if they do not employ willing labor and that willing labor is substantially illegal.

When Mexicans come to this country to work, and not to attack us, we end up looking xenophobic when we protest their presence here. Yet it is equally true that we must control our borders. We must, in the best interests of our country employ our own people. There are few easy answers and the easiest answer is one that no one seems to want to enforce, particularly the GOP. That answer is to demand better working conditions and wages from farm owners and substantial penalties for hiring illegal immigrants. I believe for the right money, Americans will do any job you give them. As long as farm owners and the rest of corporate America insist on cheap labor, we will reap what we sow.

In 2002, the Sesame Street character Elmo “testified” before Congress on school music programs. It wasn’t the least bit controversial. Perhaps that is because unlike Stephen Colbert, Elmo didn’t shine a light on our nation’s hypocrisy and our government’s inanity.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

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199 thoughts on “Colbert: Effective on so Many Levels

  1. The Democrats could care less about human rights. If they did, they would never fight for a status quo that includes mass graves, slavery, kidnappings and dead Mexicans in 130 degree box cars.

    While Colbert’s mocking of the right is insane considering the blood and lives lost to a weak border policy espoused more so by the left, Colbert is correct. The GOP is indeed part of the problem.

    We need to accept higher prices on agricultural goods and build a wall. I’m convinced that in the big scheme of things these higher prices would be offset by the gains we would make in hundreds of ways that illeagals bog us down.

    Rutherford, don’t wag your finger too much. You eat the shit the illeagals pick. You’re part of the problem too.
    The haughty Rabbit has been trying to buy produce that is locally grown from small farms. It costs more, but I like talking to the farmer that I buy my shit from. Plus the bbq at the local farmer’s market is killer.

    Build a fucking wall!!

  2. I guess it’s too much to expect a guy who doesn’t know what a “Green Card” is to understand the concept of a “work visa.”

  3. Huck, 😆

    Rutherford, another reason I love you along with your predictions. You actually think this was a shining moment in history? Do you have any idea how this makes the liberals look?

    I’ll be honest with you and this is the truth. You, and to a lesser degree Hippie, are two of the very few liberals I even take seriously anymore in discussion. Most are deranged. In Hippie’s defense, he gets this one – you don’t.

    Colbert may have an audience. It’s an incredibly unsophisticated and shallow audience. That may play well in immature, “liberated” circles, but adults from either party know that making mockery with self-aggrandizement is no way to make impact.

    Tell you how this one will end. Colbert will end up being sorry he did what he did. Right now, that insecure class clown thinks he did something really clever – way out there. These comedians are an unhinged bunch, requiring constant attention. Colbert is like the steward who thought it cute to invoke payback to open the chute, announce adieu, and slide down. He got his 15 minutes of fame with the flippant, pompous style. Now he’s not smiling anymore as he scrambles to avoid jail time and a big ass fine.

    Fat Drunk And Stupid Is No Way To Go Through Life. ~ Dean Vernon Wormer

  4. Excuse me, but the idea that Democrats are fighting for the status quo with respect to immigration must have come from some alternate reality.

    Isn’t it the other side that is pushing for Status Quo v. 2.0 – with its silly “build the dang wall” and “round ’em up and ship ’em home” priorities? That’s just shoring up the broken status quo with real or imagined “tougher” enforcement. (That’ll show ’em.)

    The Wingnut Right has the Left in a box – it’s impossible to have a sensible discussion about the “facts” from an alternate universe. That’s why Jon Stewart and Steven Colbert are doing the best political “journalism” around today. The “lamestream” media has bought into the proposition that both sides of an argument have value, even when one side is batshit crazy on its face. Satire is the only way to address something that can’t possibly be taken seriously.

    On one level, Colbert testifying (in character!) before Congress was, as Steny Hoyer put it, “an embarrassment.” But as Rutherford points out, Colbert’s testimony was also effective on many levels. (Thanks for the Elmo comparison, Rutherford – it’s spot-on.)

    How else but through satire can you address things like fear of creeping Sharia law, fear of immigrants (legal and otherwise), fear of Kenyan anti-colonialism, fear of anything they do in Europe or Canada, fear of terrorists under the bed, unfocused and debilitating fear? By laughing at the monster you imagine hiding under your bed.

    It’s not so much that we have to fear “fear itself.” I’m afraid of the irrationality of people motivated by fear to the point of insanity.

    Unlike Colbert, I don’t care if my tomato was picked by an American or not. But Americans ain’t gonna pick ’em, given the low wages and horrid working conditions of migrant farm workers. It’s just more proof that Mexicans come here to work, not to freeload. Even US farm work is better than what they have at home.

    And if you give a damn about “the least of these,” as Colbert referred to them (and I know that most of you don’t care, beyond deporting them), you will be for immigration reform so that their conditions can be improved. It’s an American scandal that our food is grown and gathered by virtual slaves.

    You won’t want to miss Colbert’s rally at the Capitol Mall on October 30. The theme: “Keeping Fear Alive.”

  5. Graychin…amen. I was particularly struck by your comment that the (“lamestream”) media have judged that all sides of an argument have equal value. Thus, we get a guy in Gainesville Florida, with a “church” numbering maybe 30 people threatening to burn Korans on the anniversary of 9/11 becoming a worldwide sensation.

  6. Greychin, your response is so silly I’m not even sure how to respond.

    How is “building a wall” status quo if there is…rabbit drum roll…NO WALL???

    You want to against the wall? So be it. But if you think that the current lawlessness on the border doesn’t victimize Mexicans your feigning ignorance. Sick shit happens to good people because of greychin’s status quo.

  7. Fakename – it’s good to meet you.

    Like Obama said the other day, if he says the sun rises in the east, you can find lots of wingnuts arguing that since he’s always wrong the sun must rise in the west. Then the Westers get TV face time – for balance.

    It’s almost to the point where an interview with an astronaut requires a flat-earth proponent or a moon-walk-hoax conspiracy theorist for “balance.”

    It IS to the point where discussions of evolution require someone to tell the Garden of Eden story for “balance.” It IS to the point where a discussion of climate change (the increasing amount of CO2 in the atmosphere) needs to be “balanced” by someone who won’t believe his own lying eyes, or thinks that whatever is going on is NOT because of human activity.

    Did you know that EVERY Republican candidate for Senate denies the need for climate action? Every last one? The only solid base of global-warming deniers in the world is the American Republican Party.

    Alternate universe. Balance.

  8. A wall is not a new policy. It’s a nutty extension of an existing policy of trying to seal a border tight through desolate country for thousands of miles.

    A wall twelve feet high will be defeated by 13-foot ladders. A wall 16 feet high will be defeated by 17-foot ladders. And so on. It’s a boondoggle and nothing more.

    I do not “want to against the wall.” Not with you anyway. But thanks for thinking of me.

  9. Really? Every Republican candidate? I started to say…Charlie Crist, then I remembered he isn’t a Republican any more 🙂 Nice to meet you too! As for “climate change” (the new PC term for “global warming”), even Sarah Palin admits it’s occurring. It’s just that humans have nothing to do with it. It’s become an argument phrased in terms of science v. faith. Faith: God has a plan for us. Science: If that’s the way you want to put it, God gave us intelligence for a reason. He would probably like us to solve our own problems to the extent we can.

  10. The real solutions to this problem will be unpleasant. Wages will have to go down, and the unions who see more people to pay their dues will have to be destroyed.

    Graychin sounds like your typical Kumbayah-singing idiot who thinks that hugs and rainbows are the solution to economic and moral crises, so he’s not really worth a response.

    why do we allow immigrant farm workers both legal and illegal to be taken advantage of?

    Why do you want them to be paid more than they deserve?

    We need to accept higher prices on agricultural goods

    Nonsense. The problem is that we have an overabundance of labor, not a shortage. Higher prices on goods are unreasonable; while we do have a high demand, we also have a high supply. The American worker’s demand for higher wages is what will break the camel’s back, not some silly theory on how we’re having a shortage of labor.

    Colbert may have an audience. It’s an incredibly unsophisticated and shallow audience. That may play well in immature, “liberated” circles, but adults from either party know that making mockery with self-aggrandizement is no way to make impact.

    Exactly. Satire has never produced an argument.

    Now he’s not smiling anymore as he scrambles to avoid jail time and a big ass fine.

    He consorted with known criminals, and yet he wants to ’empower’ them? Why is this loon not imprisoned yet?

    Build a fucking wall!!

    A wall is not sufficient. We need landmines and motion-sensing machine guns, too.

  11. Rutherford, its so nice to see that you completely ignored what I said about this in the prior thread, opting instead to rely on the idiotic and false “Jobs Americans just won’t do”.

    And I see the chin got his bulb changed, now that he has returned to his habitual projection and spouting of ignorance that makes his contributions especially special.

  12. 1.Colbert was an embarrassment.
    2.The biggest pain in the ass on this story is the lack of truth that the pickers tend to be “migrants” as opposed to criminal aliens.Guest worker visas and union representation is a far cry from the cases of actual illegal immigrant job stealing.The Lefts attempt to lie and tie the GOP up in this is a disgrace.
    3. Elmo was an invited guest on a specific agenda item. Go farther back in time to 1969 when Mr. Rogers went up against Sen Pastore (D RI). Different cases entirely to the sham skit Colbert did.

  13. graychin #7 shows the slight of hand of true partisans.

    Did you know that EVERY Republican candidate for Senate denies the need for climate action

    They are actually against cap and trade schemes.

  14. It’s an American scandal that our food is grown and gathered by virtual slaves.
    that are covered by unions,in CA are tended by the CA Agricultural Labor Relations Board and on and on. There is a difference between migrants and any reform that would further solidify their status as such (Guest worker program,bring back Bracero etc.) and things like amnesty for illegals that have nothing to do with the agri-industry.

  15. “climate change” (the new PC term for “global warming”)
    Honestly though fake wouldn’t you concede that is more because of folks on your side?!.

  16. It’s almost to the point where an interview with an astronaut requires a flat-earth proponent or a moon-walk-hoax conspiracy theorist for “balance.”

    LOL Right on the money Gray!!! Total ignorance now gets equal time at the table.

    Here’s the worst part …. even those with good intentions in the media do harm. We’ve recently seen tape of O’Donnell warning of mice with “fully functioning human brains”. The story is looped ad nauseum to show O’Donnell to be the opportunistic dimwit that she is. But how much do you wanna bet there are now scores of batsh*t crazy conservatives now saying “Damn, Jasper, I KNEW something was going on with that stem cell research. This O’Donnell is on to something!”

    Just exposing the ignorant to further ignorance, even in an attempt to debunk, just strengthens the ignorance factor!

  17. Greychin, you got me on my typo.

    Go back and read your response. Tell me where you addressed what I believe to be a very valid point: The current lawlessness on the Mexican-American border is responsible for countless human rights violations.

    Whats that? You don’t want to?

    Would rather go on rants about the futility of conversing with the Rabbit because of global warming and stuff?

    Trust me. If we ever do reach a point where dialogue is dead and we are living in a Mad-Max-ocracy, I’m going to take my sweet time with you.

    But for now, why don’t you address my concerns or at least admit you don’t give a fuck.

  18. Why do you want them to be paid more than they deserve?

    Objective Scrutator, welcome.

    This is a loaded statement to say the least. More than they deserve? The market should decide what they deserve and not employers giving them artificially lowered wages.

    Let’s have consumers refuse to pay higher prices for produce and then let the market set the right wage for those who pick the crops. I submit folks would pay more for their produce, and employers would be able to pay their workers more money. By the way, it goes beyond money. There is also the issue of safety. During the committee meeting on the Hill, a case was discussed of a worked dying from sunstroke unnecessarily. Work conditions are poor, in addition to poor wages.

  19. By the way, it goes beyond money. There is also the issue of safety. During the committee meeting on the Hill, a case was discussed of a worked dying from sunstroke unnecessarily.

    What? With all that union oversight and state representation? What happened? Did the union reps collect all the dues and then take the state officials to the bar for cocktails?

    Of course, if they are being so deeply harmed by being here illegally and having “to live in the shadows” (you know, when they aren’t clogging up our courts by suing citizens), they could always go home.

    R, seriously. Conservatives aren’t without compassion, but neither are we the type to ask those who have come to steal from those rightfully here if they are comfy enough, or if they need us to fluff their pillows for them, nor are we the type to blindly acquiece to their cries of foul when they are much harsher on those they catch sneaking into their own homeland.

  20. “LOL Right on the money Gray!!! Total ignorance now gets equal time at the table.”-R

    Ha ha ha ha ha. Laugh it up, Rutherford.

    Human rights abuses are a gas.

    They’re so stupid, those right wingers. Calling for the rule of law instead of anarchy, rape, kidnapping and murder. Lets yuck it up and bring up climate change too. That way you don’t have to really think that maybe, just maybe, the Democratic Party has much to gain from the disgusting, dehumanizing effects of the current status quo.

    Question? How many Mexicans do you think are locked up in Phoenix right now, being traded like a commodity by Coyote gangs? 1000? 10,000? More?

    Oh…I’m sorry. You already spent your wad on being progressive and caring about people when you talked about wage workers picking strawberries.

    Yeah…because that mass grave found on the other side of the border is just…too….awkward to discuss.

  21. I think it is absurd that we should condone illegal immigration as a way to support any industry. I believe I said as much in the main piece. Unlike business-loving conservatives, I’m willing to lay the blame where it belongs … not on the desperate Mexican coming here to make a better wage than he can get at home … but on the greedy business man who will cut any corner to increase his profit. I maintain that the fault of 90% of our immigration problem falls squarely on the shoulders of an exploitative business community. Fix that with severe penalties and the problem gets better.

    Alfie is pointing out we have legislation that protects migrant farm workers. OK …. we also have rules in place that protect coal miners, you see how well that works out. For folks who quickly defend Arizona making up new law because current ones are not enforced, I find it interesting that you’re so willing to let farm labor laws go unenforced.

    Finally, I agree that the wall is impractical and the motion triggered rocket launchers are inhumane. So how do we control the border then? I asked this in a previous thread but how do other countries control their borders? Is there anything to be learned from them?

  22. Damn Rutherford, you’re starting to smoke the old man’s pole when he shows up and starts blubbering. You almost gush with excitement. But I am glad I introduced you to the old fart.

    Did you know that EVERY Republican candidate for Senate denies the need for climate action? Every last one? The only solid base of global-warming deniers in the world is the American Republican Party.

    Alternate universe. Balance.

    Of course, there might be a little more to the skepticism which libs conveniently ignore, including here. Graychin’s statement as always is both inaccurate and non-factual This is what happens when you get the great majority of your information from MSNBC, The Slimes, Media Matters, and Mother Jones. Is there still a Village Voice? 🙂

    For starters, we’ve got Climategate, Rainforestgate, and Himalayagate which all say the results were not only fudged, but fraudulent. Chicken Little Gore screams the tides will swamp us, makes a movie and writes a book, forms a company to profit from carbon credits, makes a fortunate and buys an $8.8million beach house. 😆

    Worse, two scientists in Russia have a ten year old bet with Global catastrophe men like Graychin that they’ll make a $10,000 wager that the world isn’t warming, but cooling. No takers.

    And have you noticed how strangely silent these moonbats have become about the ACLU attorney now attesting reverse racism at the Dept. of Justice? When you can’t argue, change the subject.

    Eric Holder’s office should be moved to Leavenworth.

  23. Unlike business-loving conservatives, I’m willing to lay the blame where it belongs … not on the desperate Mexican coming here to make a better wage than he can get at home … but on the greedy business man who will cut any corner to increase his profit.

    So the person who will gladly break the law to come here don’t bear any of the blame, just the eeeevvvviiiill business people…like the farmers. I hope you didn’t have your mouth full when you said it. The guy who comes here knowing he’s breaking the law to do so, and knowing that those who would do so in his own country would be brutally dealt with bears no blame. Got it.

    I maintain that the fault of 90% of our immigration problem falls squarely on the shoulders of an exploitative business community. Fix that with severe penalties and the problem gets better.

    Ahem:

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/usc_sec_08_00001324—-000-.html

    I do enjoy it when you focus on the wrong end, and insist that there oughtta be a law, when there is ALREADY a law, with pretty onerous penalties.

    Of course, trying to comply with this in a “Sanctuary City” could be quite difficult, but then, its not exploitation when leftists do it. Its just good politics.

    Whatever.

  24. You know what always cracks me up about these goobers from the Left? They make it sound like technically impossible to build a wall high enough. They’ll just build a ladder one foot taller. Yuck, yuck, yuck. I’ve heard at least three dumbasses make this very statement, including the insufferable Pete “I’m King” Stark.

    Uh huh. That’s good. Because if Tex gets to build the wall, then the nanosecond they put their ladder on the fence, they’ll get a “real charge” of about 500,000 volts rendering them with great deal of motivation not to try that again – if there is an again. We can keep 2,000lbs steers from stampeding with one 8-gauge live wire. Oh yeah, we can build a fence that will keep people out for cheap. 😉

    But there’s an easier and cheaper method and no wall would be required. No expense besides fuel, maintenance and about maybe two thousand border cops with night vision (one per mile). I expect that it will take about one week for illegal crossings to drop to near zero.

    See:

    http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.apnimarzi.com/wp-content/gallery/aircraft/AC-130_Spectre_Gunship.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.apnimarzi.com/wallpapers/aircraft/%3Fnggpage%3D5%26pid%3D1063&usg=__YjxkHQQTySXCSIl9kWEL2SsOYmo=&h=1024&w=1280&sz=618&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=ZJACV4LWfqabtM:&tbnh=114&tbnw=145&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dac-130%2Bspectre%2Bgunship%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1024%26bih%3D600%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C199&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=732&vpy=220&dur=3219&hovh=201&hovw=251&tx=213&ty=120&ei=4PufTOz6J8iWnAey7vWSDQ&oei=4PufTOz6J8iWnAey7vWSDQ&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:14,s:0&biw=1024&bih=600

  25. “I maintain that the fault of 90% of our immigration problem falls squarely on the shoulders of an exploitative business community.”

    This should be easy to prove .I would think this exploitative business community would be giving a ton of cash to politicians who are for the status quo or an even more lax border. Democrats must be main a killing off big agriculture. 90% uh?

  26. Yeah…Tex…you’re right. They always pretend the logistics of sealing the border is impossible for the most advanced civilization on Earth.

  27. Rabbit,

    This is why I am absolutely sure all this climate crap is fraudulent. I mean criminally fraudulent, with the motive to damage Big Oil, hike prices, and most importantly, profit from the misery. It’s the Dimocratic way.

    You got to consider the imbeciles telling us this. Men like Graychin, especially when it comes to science, can’t find both butt cheeks with two hands. Absolute, complete frauds. You don’t think he’d pee himself to get on a Lear Jet with Al Gore?

    That’s why I threw that Rutherford gig from 11 months ago announcing Republicans going the way of the Whigs. I was making a simple demonstration of their ‘predictive abilities.’

    Remember when these idiots told us Chernobyl would be uninhabitable for thousands of years? They’re giving guided tours of the place. 😆

    Here’s a stock tip so you can save for Jr.’s education. Anytime the Left attacks an industry, more specifically a company, something like Caterpillar, R.J. Reynolds, Exxon Mobil rush as fast as you can to your E-Trade account and purchase a 100 shares.

    That’s guaranteed profit man – my theory has never failed me yet.

  28. BiC, I don’t blame anyone for coming here to improve their life. Getting here legally is a cluster fuck. If getting here illegally was the most realistic vehicle of getting my family in America, you damn right I would break the law.

  29. Rabbit, the point is we should be able to determine and enforce our immgration policies, not have them dictated to us by a hypocritcal foreign nation and an internal component of our own country that doesn’t want to enforce it at the border, but instead penalize those who are here legally.

    Talking out of both sides of their mouth may come naturally, but I won’t willingly participate in the farce that pretends that they make sense while they do it.

  30. I think we Conservatives should be honest about one thing. And I can guarantee this is true, no matter the unemployment rate. Construction is one thing – those jobs would be filled in a heartbeat by American workers.

    Picking fruit for $1.00 a bushel is another or some other ripoff is quite another. The only way white trash like me would pick fruit for a living is if I was starving to death. I’m not blaming the people trying to get here. Like Rabbit, if my family were at stake and roaming gangs of thugs armed with automatic weapons were mowing down cops and mayors like bowling pens, I’d be sneaking over too.

    Case in point.

    I may be one of the few white bread type to actually pick fruit the last 50 years for pay. Yeah, my grandpa made me do it with this blackberry and grape crop he had as a hobby for several years – and that was about an acre. The old miser would give me one dollar a bucket. Go out and pick blackberries and you’ll get a new epiphany of why you don’t want to pick fruit for a living. Remember the purple fingers in Iraq? No big deal – I had 10 of them (for a buck).

    If we would simply enforce our work visas properly and pay a minimum wage, I believe this could be worked around. What the Dims pandering for illegal votes don’t tell you is that there’s a pretty hefty fee for very poor folks to become an America citizen, if you are to believe my legal immigrant hair dresser who went through the mess.

    Try going to the Mexican consulate and see what “fees” they charge for matriculation.

  31. I’ll probably catch hell for this. But, if I thought the country was going to seal the border, and I’m talking some epic shit with the vision and drive that we had in WW2, I’d be ok with amnesty for those already here (sans felons).

  32. Tex, hair dresser? I thought I was bad with my iced Starbucks and eccentric music. But hairdressers? Man code dictates you get your lid butchered like rest of us in barber shops with that red, white and blue twirly thing by some old stinky man. Next thing I know you will be talking about split ends and highlights. Come on man, your motherfuckin’ Tex Taylor, not John Edwards!

  33. Go out and pick blackberries and you’ll get a new epiphany of why you don’t want to pick fruit for a living.

    I pick them from the vines in my back yard. They make a wicked awesome pie. And I can admit I wouldn’t do that for a living, but then as a teenage high school kid, I worked several jobs I wouldn’t do for a living. I always thought that was kinda the point.

    ______________________________________

    I thought I was bad with my iced Starbucks

    Rabbit! Put the shitty burnt coffee down, and back away.
    Seriously, try “Seattle’s Best” instead. You should be able to find a limited selection at your major supermarket there. I could get it at Meijer’s before I moved in 2001.

  34. Rabbit,

    Oh, Delores charges fruit picking prices. Hell, she’s cheaper than the stinky old man in my part of the country. 🙂

    But she doesn’t have old Playboys laying around to read like your buzzhead. I might be willing to pay extra for that benefit.

  35. For some reason that cracked me up out loud about your Gramps making you pick berries.

    Another job I can’t stand is painting. I don’t know how anyone can do that job day in and day out. Misses Rabbit does all the painting here.

    One of my buddies from high school grew up in a household where his Mom mowed the lawn. I went over his house a couple years ago and had a laughing fit when I saw his pretty little wife pushing a Craftsman up and down the front lawn.

  36. My first “real” job was as a helper at a bed and breakfast in my community. The mowing…and mowing….and mowing, and leaves, and painting…that was all ok for a 14 year old, but the standing at the top of a ladder in the December rain, mucking out the gutters? Yeah, that pretty much sucked. And no, an illegal wouldn’t have done it. Too damn cold for them.

  37. I’ve worked along side Mexicans doing concrete and roofing.

    Trying to keep up with them can literally kill an American.

    Its not that they work any harder, its just they don’t stop.

    They can put in 12 hour days without breaks and nourishment in brutal heat for months at a time.

    Hell, I was a roofer for 9 years. The last thing I want is for my kid to be a labor-phobe. But I would have serious concerns sending him out in the fields along side Mexicans in the 100 degree heat.

    Hell, even if that was an option, agricultural labor would be now operating at minimum wage. Isn’t that alot more then what we pay now?

  38. I let my lovely bride “mow” the lawn once about 20 years ago. She volunteered while I was on business. This was back in the day where I actually had a real lawn. Last time she did that, somehow she caught part of the linkage on a Honda mower and ripped it. On top of that, I swear she set each wheel set on a different height. Looked like locust had gone through the yard after she was done.

    I get to paint tomorrow. Sucks! I’ll probably spill the gallon over new wood floors. I’ll put a gun to my head if I do. This paint is acrylic latex and is like painting with glue.

    It’s supposed to have all the advantages of oil based paints, but dries as quickly as latex. But it is a bitch to paint with. It is pretty if you do it right, but you’re continually having to clean your brush.

    I’ve got this big hole that Sammy left (my dog that was killed this summer) where I clean the brushes. I noticed last week I was starting to create a river towards my neighbor’s lawn. He thought his lawn had some fungus. I sat there tongue tied between laughing and messing myself when he was telling me about it over the fence this weekend. And he’s a good guy.

    Guess I better dig the hole a little deeper.

  39. Tex, how did you know about the Playboys? I think our conversations are starting to recycle a bit. Did I already bust your balls about the hair dresser?

  40. Yeah, that pretty much sucked. And no, an illegal wouldn’t have done it. Too damn cold for them.

    Mexicans can work in about 120 degrees in jeans and not break a sweat. I kid you not – the frickin heat index was about 115 here when they put my roof on and they were all up there singing.

    But the temperature drops to about 40 degrees, they go into what appears to be some sort of stasis. 😆

  41. D.R.,

    Tex, how did you know about the Playboys? I think our conversations are starting to recycle a bit. Did I already bust your balls about the hair dresser?

    Yeah, that story was so funny when you ragged me the first time about Delores, you don’t forget a story like that. Don’t tell Hippie. He accuses me of having a poor memory.

  42. Speaking of cleaning gutters BiC, about three years ago, Tulsa had a devastating ice storm which literally brought the city to its knees for over a week. I think at one point, about 70% of the city was without power.

    I looked up the first afternoon and noticed that my guttering was starting to droop. I got out my ladder in the ice storm with limbs dropping around me and noticed the damn sparrows had gotten in the guttering and dammed them up with their nests.

    Trying to remove gutter screens in an ice storm ranks up there with picking blackberries between the thorns. I could see where you wouldn’t much like cleaning the gutters in a rainstorm in December. :smile:.

  43. Rabbit:

    Most of the lawlessness on our Mexican border is due to drugs, not immigration policy. The demand for drugs in El Norte is insatiable. The murderous Mexican drug cartels exist to fill that demand.

    I’ve got a way to make the Mexican drug cartels go away, just as a have a way to make illegal immigration stop. But you don’t want to hear about either one. You would rather bitch about Mexicans and blame liberals for the world’s problems.

    Hint: Mexicans come to America illegally for jobs. That’s the only reason they come. No jobs for them, no illegal immigration.

    Hint: There is a market-based remedy for murderous Mexican drug cartels.

  44. BiW, I finally read through your treatise on the previous thread. I say your anger is misplaced. Illegal immigration, whether we are talking labor or drugs exists only because of enablers.

    I’ve made this analogy before, at great risk of sounding racist, but if you clean up your damn house, the ants don’t come. You would prefer to keep your house a pig sty and bitch all day and night about those pesky ants.

    By the way … has it occurred to anyone that a fence (actually a wall as in Berlin wall) might be confused by the international community as a means to keep Americans here and not to keep Mexicans out? It is funny how we use the homey, Norman Rockwell image of the fence when we really mean WALL, complete with watch towers to shoot anyone trying to breach it. 😉

  45. “Objective Scrutator, welcome. ”

    Thank you! Salutations to you, too!

    “This is a loaded statement to say the least. More than they deserve? The market should decide what they deserve and not employers giving them artificially lowered wages. ”

    The market IS deciding what the illegals are getting paid. United States labor laws are going against the will of the market by causing non-illegal workforce to enter with a marked disadvantage _ they are not allowed to compete with the illegals for the lowest wages. Businessmen logically pick the cheapest labor available to them.

    “Let’s have consumers refuse to pay higher prices for produce and then let the market set the right wage for those who pick the crops. I submit folks would pay more for their produce, and employers would be able to pay their workers more money.”

    Nonsense. Americans would bring out the pitchforks and torches against the FDA (a good idea, I might add) before they accept dramatic changes in their purchasing habits. And why should Americans have to pay more for food and whatnot? They’ve done nothing wrong!

    “By the way, it goes beyond money. There is also the issue of safety. During the committee meeting on the Hill, a case was discussed of a worked dying from sunstroke unnecessarily. Work conditions are poor, in addition to poor wages.”

    If you are not willing to gain American citizenship, then America has no reason to offer you protection (certainly not with the promises of better wages/conditions). Furthermore, the workers are doubtlessly aware of the dangers of working in the fields; if they are too weak to work the fields, then they can always find new work. Enterprising businessmen can and have improve the working conditions, but labor needs to be in constant demand in order for the businessman to do so. If the government mandates better working conditions with the huge labor pool we have at the moment, then the food market will collapse, as entirely too many people would be paid wages which the businessman simply cannot afford to bear. If workers want greater protections, they will need to seek entry into more exclusive fields.

    So the person who will gladly break the law to come here don’t bear any of the blame, just the eeeevvvviiiill business people…like the farmers. I hope you didn’t have your mouth full when you said it. The guy who comes here knowing he’s breaking the law to do so, and knowing that those who would do so in his own country would be brutally dealt with bears no blame. Got it.

    I agree. Furthermore, businessmen are being effectively forced to hire illegal immigrants if they want to keep their businesses afloat. Note that this is especially bad in California, where wages are a ridiculous $8.00 and premium pay comes far too quickly. With wages so much better than Mexico, is it any wonder that businessmen there are so eager to hire illegals? (California’s wasteful welfare for illegals doesn’t help, either.)

    “But there’s an easier and cheaper method and no wall would be required. No expense besides fuel, maintenance and about maybe two thousand border cops with night vision (one per mile). I expect that it will take about one week for illegal crossings to drop to near zero.”

    The AC-130, as potent as it is, would be subject to human error. A wall, fortified by landmines and motion-detecting machine guns, would not. It may be more expensive, but not a single illegal would be able to escape.

    “This is why I am absolutely sure all this climate crap is fraudulent. I mean criminally fraudulent, with the motive to damage Big Oil, hike prices, and most importantly, profit from the misery. It’s the Dimocratic way.”

    Global Warming is a Dispensationalist fraud. Furthermore, if the planet were warming, it would be a good thing; we would be able to grow many more crops, and there would be less water shortages in third-world countries. Of course, for Democrats, many people need to die in order to fulfill their prophecies.

    “if I thought the country was going to seal the border, and I’m talking some epic shit with the vision and drive that we had in WW2, I’d be ok with amnesty for those already here (sans felons).”

    For non-felons, I think that an indentured servitude system would be greatly beneficial towards our country; once the servant has paid off the amount of money he has cost the American economy, he can leave Mexico and attempt to reapply for citizenship. If the illegal is a felon, we can execute him. (Illegal immigration should be made into a felony ASAP, though.)

  46. “By the way … has it occurred to anyone that a fence (actually a wall as in Berlin wall) might be confused by the international community as a means to keep Americans here and not to keep Mexicans out?”

    We’d have gates, silly! If the international community thought otherwise, then they can just blow it. Besides, pandering towards the international community has cost an inestimable amount of American lives and dollars. They’re all in the pockets of Iran, anyways.

  47. You would rather bitch about Mexicans and blame liberals for the world’s problems.

    Hey Graychin, you’re making progress – you’re only have wrong this time! The only way to fight the “drug war” is to curtail demand. You got that right.

    But who do think is chronically smoking that weed? John McCain voters?

    Show me a chronic doper with a NORML bumper sticker on one side, and I’ll put about a 98% chance if they vote, they are pulling that straight Dhimmi ticket and have a “Yes We Can!” bumper sticker on the other side of their filthy, unwashed, unmaintained clunker.

    Or they might have themselves a high end Mercedes low rider with curb feelers, packing with heat.

    So I guess another solution and probably the fastest solution to “win the drug war” is to just kill all the libs. 🙂

    I think you’re on to something.

  48. Here’s a nice, “balanced” article blaming Obama’s trouble on…on…on…

    Anybody but Obama.

    It’s Graychin’s fault. It’s Hippie’s fault. It’s Rutherford’s fault. It’s still mostly the “loons” fault who used to be call Teabaggers previously. Rutherford gets a bit of a pass because he is middle class and black. These men haven’t done enough to cool the jets of the “loons” from the right. Read close enough and you might find an innuendo of honky or two. 😉

    It’s got it all! Every talking point used the last six months that the Left wishes to propagate through the ranks, including “reasonable” Republicans not listened to.

    This goosestepper had to be a member of Journolist.

    And you guys wonder why anybody to the right of Bill Ayers might find the MSM a tad bias?

    http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2010/09/27/2010-09-27_hes_president_not_a_superhero.html

  49. Scrutator, I’m a bit puzzled how you tie global warming to better water supply. When I think of global warming, at least in some parts of the world, I think of drought. What am I missing here?

  50. Tex, I am fascinated by the Obama worshipers inability to see why the rise of the Tea Party and the death of the dem majority. It’s so obviously arrogance and unwillingness to take responsibility for anything. The middle American that is treated as so effing stupid that they don’t know what’s good for them can’t take it anymore. I mean, look at G-chin’s latest “attack them with satire because their too dumb to understand anything else” approach. Yeah, keep poking them in the chest –that’ll work.

    I love articles like the one you posted. It continues to feed the monster it seeks to slay. And like a giant, collective group of egocentric, know-it-all, teenage schoolgirls, the left is at a loss to understand why they are being tuned out by the grown ups from whom they seek approval.

    Colbert is funny. However, the performance before Congress was a complete flop to anyone objective.

  51. El Tigre,

    It’s really offensive.

    At least sixty percent (60%) of the country, including most physicians and nurses, architects and accountants, engineers and venture capitalists are all too stupid figure out what the dopers, druggies, deviants, domestic terrorists, dropouts, and decadent have determined is best for us.

    We simply can’t understand how ‘gifted’ Obama really is – never mind the teleprompter attached to his skull. And if truth be known, Corpsman really is pronounced CORPSEMAN too. We were all taught wrong, including Gorilla.

    The force is strong with these idiots from the Left. Darth Hussein and his handouts social justice pandering inane slogans charisma have them by the balls heart strings. 🙄

  52. Tex … LOL on burning me a copy of the Koran [to CD]. Now the question is, if you get a copy of the Koran on CD in the first place and you rip it to your hard drive, does that earn a fatwa too? 😉

  53. El Tigre,

    That was excellent, and I indeed believe it was a work of art. Simplicity has become a lost art.

    The guy stated with clarity why people are angry, why there is a Tea Party, and why after the election, it should go away. But don’t count on it…there’s a few pols milking it too that we will send on their merry way sometime soon.

    Simply leave the mechanism in place to quickly reassemble, if necessary. I agree.

    P.S. – these leftists are still convinced the Tea Party just another arm of the Republican party. And you’ll note only the real angry or real stupid deviants, like Graychin and Yeller Dawg respectively, are still using the term ‘Teabaggers’ They couldn’t be more wrong.

    I was as tickled at watching this Castle clown put to pasture as I was watching lib’s skulls evaporate when their candidates starting losing by 20 points. And I think the mood is even angrier now.

    What is important short term is to simple win a majority in one of the two branches of the Legislature. Best we an hope for is a draw this go around, and I’m not sure it’s in the best interest to win the Senate “yet.” Therefore, even if O’Donnell loses, it might be a blessing. Since we bagged a Lib posing as Republican, it’s still a victory.

  54. LOL on burning me a copy of the Koran [to CD]. Now the question is, if you get a copy of the Koran on CD in the first place and you rip it to your hard drive, does that earn a fatwa too?

    😆 You know, that’s the most legitimate question you’ve asked me in weeks.

  55. I was as tickled at watching this Castle clown put to pasture

    You’re burning down your own house silly. Castle, RINO, though you might call him, was a lock. If O’Donnell wins the seat it will be a miracle.

  56. You’re burning down your own house silly. Castle, RINO, though you might call him, was a lock. If O’Donnell wins the seat it will be a miracle.

    “R” my liberal pal, you’re a smart guy but your thinking is so myopic and two dimensional 🙂

    We didn’t burn down the house – we kicked the stray dog who kept s***ing on the carpet out of the house. Good riddance. Like I said to Krauthammer in a letter, “what good does it do to have Arlen Specter reincarnated? Screw Him.”

    Besides, we don’t need to win the Senate yet. Probably best we don’t yet – just get close enough that we can still wrap the Obama albatross around every Dim neck. 2012 has some low hanging Fruit Libs just ripe for the pickin’. Having some small majority just gives lying Libs ammo at the two things they do well – pander and lie. When the Tea Party wins, I don’t want a 17-14 game. I want a slaughter.

    Man “R”, when are you going to learn I’m already thinking about bagging the prized horse’s ass in 2012? 😉 You remember that phony smile Barry showed when Ms. Hart or whatever the well-spoken woman’s name was that said she was tired of defending him? Mouth open, eyes wide?

    Well, I want that same look with a lot more gray hair, wrinkles, and Obama’s hair looking like Don King.

  57. Sorry, that should be *leave FOR Mexico*. Obviously, illegals need to start back on square 1 if they want to reapply for citizenship.

    “Scrutator, I’m a bit puzzled how you tie global warming to better water supply. When I think of global warming, at least in some parts of the world, I think of drought. What am I missing here?”

    Well, treefrogs and other assorted lunatics claim that the water level will rise by the icecaps melting, right? Besides, warmer water means more water vapor.

    ” You’re burning down your own house silly. Castle, RINO, though you might call him, was a lock. If O’Donnell wins the seat it will be a miracle.”

    Christine O’Donnell’s main problem is that she tried to take down an organization using ’emotional charges’. That sounds suspiciously feminist. However, Delaware is not so liberal that they won’t accept anyone more conservative than Mike Castle. His record is utterly shameful; note his support for the existence of global warming and his vote on SCHIP, for example.

  58. Hmm. I reading today that the NetFlix big shot Reed Hastings is a big Dim supporter and one of those libs that likes to bad mouth America on foreign soil, in this case Canada. Seems Mr. Reed finds we are self-absorbed. As a Lib, he would personally be acquainted with this.

    Well, I decided as some lowlife Bible Thumper in the Hinderlands, that the Liberal Reed Hastings is absolutely right. I can’t argue about my self-absorption.

    So in order to verify that Mr. Hastings is indeed correct in his assessment, with four clicks of the button, I changed my service from $16.99 to $8.99 a month and will still stream videos at my leisure.

    Thank you Mr. Hastings for introducing yourself. It’s a pleasure doing business. Oh, and when an alternative becomes available, would you mark my account null and void? 😉

  59. An excellent summation of the man called Obama – short read, well worth the time. And it indirectly points out how tightly woven the Obama 2008 bandanna is around the Lib’s heads that frequent these WordPress blogs.

    Be careful not to step on their pride. As diehard Obama supporters, they appear to trending toward extinction and we need them as reminders of his miserable failures. 😡

    Tickler:
    Perhaps the last man to wake up in America is the president himself, and perhaps it took a chin shot from Hart to deliver the message. The choir doesn’t want any more preaching, any more promises of a better future “if only…”

    They sent in the small contributions. They provided the votes. They delivered the huge congressional majorities, and those majorities delivered an enormous “stimulus,” plus Obamacare, and still the economy is wheezing, inner-city schools are still failing and health care is still expensive.

    Obama’s entire career has been built on overpromising. Now not only is he underdelivering, he is doing so in spectacularly woeful fashion, and his teleprompter-dependent rhetoric is leaving even his true believers cynical and uninterested in turning out one-more-time for another round of hype built on bitter charges against an evil overclass.

    The snake oil has been tried and it doesn’t work. In fact, it makes things worse. Much worse. And the customers are angry.

    Sheer poetry…

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns/Velma-Hart-is-far-from-alone-in-her-weariness-with-Obama-1006817-103822168.html

  60. R says: “You’re burning down your own house silly. Castle, RINO, though you might call him, was a lock. If O’Donnell wins the seat it will be a miracle.”

    Time to turn off the sneering MSNBC crowd. The canary is dead. Seriously. With no ability to adapt, the joke is on the left, not the right.

  61. We don’t need higher prices for produce any more than we need illegal immigrants to harvest it.

    There is already a vehicle in place to deal with needed immigrant labor. And it isn’t a coyote’s overcrowded van.

    But as I said above, Rutherford has already shown in the past that he isn’t even familiar with the concept of a national ID card for legal immigrants (Green Card), so why would he be familiar with the concept of a work visa that would make that farm worker a legal, yet temporary, resident?

    Too bad Colbert didn’t tell jokes about that stuff. Maybe the Rutherfords would have learned something.

  62. Point taken BiC – and good find. But don’t expect it to phase the Libs here. Most Libs actually think the imbecile Colbert was a highlight for the Obama Administration. Hippie was the only one I noted who had the good sense to put his head in his hands.

    Now maybe people can understand why I really do believe Liberalism is a mental illness.

    On a side note, doesn’t Colbert look like the consummate metrosexual that a real man would love to bitch slap, then beat to a pulp? The Pussy Colbert deserved a major beat down upon his departure. Now that would have made for good TV.

  63. HEY LIBS! You guys traveling to the Moonbat Convergence in DC this weekend? I can’t wait for the photo op from this one. You can pretend like it was the good old days where you controlled the narrative.

    Can you tell your brothers and sisters from the Socialist party, Communist party, La Raza, NARAL, NORML, aging Hippies, eco terrorists, Save the Whales, New Black Panthers, Hustler Magazine employees, ACT-UP, Anabaptists, American Humanists, American Atheists, Freedom From Religion, People for American Way, , NAACP, and union goons to get a group hug pic for me?

    I want to blow it up and make a poster out of it. 😮

  64. That would be the “America Under Siege” rally, Tex?

    No, they probably wouldn’t appreciate the irony. Maybe the “Hands in Your Pockets Across America” rally?

    Maybe they’ll bring their refreshingly honest signs with them. You know, the ones that say “I’m a public sector union employee and I was paid to be here” or “Thanks for paying for my transportation and politcal speech this weekend, suckers taxpayers” or “My job is more important than excellence in the class room for your child”…you know, something like that?

  65. BiC, not bad. 🙂 I’ve been calling it the “Death to America” Convergence.

    I understand Dead Fish Rahm is out tonight. Smug Emanuel actually makes Obama seem likable and polite.

    They’re dropping like flies while Bongo rearranges his deck chairs on the Titanic. Fricking cowards. They leave us with Obama and bail before Obama even hits mid term.

    You had to know the tiny ballerina wasn’t going to take the heat for Obama’s November beatdown. Emanuel was the nastiest SOB on a team of SOBs (and ugly women).

  66. BiW. first of all, Michele Malkin is one of the most humorless women I have ever encountered in the public sphere. She has spent so much of her life being a snarky snot that it is plastered on her face. The minute I see her name on the by-line anything that comes after is suspect.

    Second, I am sorry the woman lost her nephew to gang violence from an illegal alien. But you and I both know it could just as easily have been an American born-and-bred gang banger. The notion that we should despise all illegal aliens because some of them commit violence is absurd. But then, I mustn’t forget that you think all Muslims bear the blame of 9/11. 😐

  67. 😳

    I was having some fun someplace else and forgot to change by address. Will you can that comment of mine in moderation.

    “R”,

    Thanks to Princess Possum, I’ve found a new libbie blog to torment. 😈 It’s made my spider bite feel much better as I have to keep the leg elevated. Amazing what a spider can do.

    Wait until these twisted blowhards get a gander that someone was pissing in their bran cereal box when they wake up. And they’ve got a big collection of clunkers and leeches to make fun of there.

    I mentioned Hustler because my favorite lib is still Larry Flynt. Don’t you know that wicked bastard was conflicted pulling the Presidential voting lever in 2008? Hey, hey, hey – now there’s a good point about Obama. 🙂

    I can’t offhand think of a better representative of the Democratic party than Larry Flynt.

  68. Off topic question for Gorilla.

    Last night I watched a segment on Afghanistan on “60 Minutes”. What I was left with was how does anyone ever return to a normal life after serving in Afghanistan? The guys in this segment were going into a village where they had been welcomed before but this time, the commander sensed the mood was not quite right. Sure enough, they got attacked by the Taliban. In this case there were no casualties. When it was over the guys seemed energized.

    How does serving in a war like this not either wreck you emotionally (I would crap my pants at the sound of the first gun fire) or get you so addicted to the rush of combat that you never decompress and get back to living in a normal civilian life?

    This is not meant to be a loaded question. I’d really like your first hand opinion. The “60 Minutes” story freaked me out a bit.

  69. Tex, one thing I like about you is you always teach me new emoticons. First one was 😐 and now

    😳

    Many thanks!

    P.S. Ahhhh you’re just pissed cos Larry had the bad taste to say Jerry Falwell was conceived in an outhouse (at least I think that was the “joke”). Jerry, good Christian that he was, forgave Larry and appeared on TV with him. Shame he couldn’t be so forgiving of gays, on whom he blamed 9/11. Ah yes …. Larry’s a disgusting pig but he’s a hetero so it’s ok! 🙂

    P.P.S. Your relatively new avatar is a great photo of Obama. What am I missing?

  70. Second, I am sorry the woman lost her nephew to gang violence from an illegal alien. But you and I both know it could just as easily have been an American born-and-bred gang banger. The notion that we should despise all illegal aliens because some of them commit violence is absurd.

    No, the notion that they are frequently given state and union protection, as well as access to our courts, and people like you don’t want to hold them accountable for them breaking the law by coming here in the first place is what’s absurd. Calling them the defenseless and the least among us with nary a passing thought given to their status as lawbreakers is absurd. Ask people you know in the border states if they have ever been in a car accident with an illegal. They don’t carry insurance, and you as a citizen do not even get the right of redress in the courts that you would have against a citizen, insured or not, because they ignore the process and go back home.

    As for Malkin, I hear her regularly on thee local afternoon drive time show, and she is very personable. Are you sure you just don’t have a problem with that spotlight she shines so well on the corruption flowing all around the Chicago Messiah™?

  71. If you remembered much about Hustler and Larry Flynt from the 70s, as a black man, you wouldn’t be so forgiving.

    Do you remember many years ago about a restaurant franchise named Sambo’s? They later changed their name Denny’s, if memory serves.

    Anyway, it was Flynt’s joking intention to start a franchise named Tarbaby’s as he was outraged over the decision – he’s a hardcore racist about on par with the Klan. That’s why I was laughing about Flynt’s conflicted nature pulling that 2008 Presidential lever.

  72. I don’t even remember how I learned all these emoticons. There was a time right before my departure from corporate America that I became familiar with HTML. Some of them I learned apparently aren’t compatible with WordPress.

    Chin gave us a list one night of compatibility. I should have copied them. It’s about the only way I’ve learned to convey emotion.

    I think I’ve got Princess Possum convinced I’m a wife beater. 😈

  73. 😳

    Not Graychin – I meant Chen as in Chenzhen. I wonder what ever happened to that goof.

    He was as thick skinned as you are.

  74. Off topic question for Gorilla.

    Last night I watched a segment on Afghanistan on “60 Minutes”. What I was left with was how does anyone ever return to a normal life after serving in Afghanistan? The guys in this segment were going into a village where they had been welcomed before but this time, the commander sensed the mood was not quite right. Sure enough, they got attacked by the Taliban. In this case there were no casualties. When it was over the guys seemed energized.

    How does serving in a war like this not either wreck you emotionally (I would crap my pants at the sound of the first gun fire) or get you so addicted to the rush of combat that you never decompress and get back to living in a normal civilian life?

    This is not meant to be a loaded question. I’d really like your first hand opinion. The “60 Minutes” story freaked me out a bit.” – R

    I’ve been asked what war is like before, to explain it to folks. I can’t.

    I can’t describe the sound of gunfire mixed with the sound the bullets make when they fly through the air by you.

    I can’t describe the strobe effect of automatic gunfire or the long streams of light that comes from tracers.

    I can’t describe the acidic, sulfur like smell and taste at the back of your throat from the gunpowder.

    I can’t describe the compression you feel in your chest, or the roar that follows when a rocket impacts near by.

    And I can’t describe the emptiness you feel inside when you get the news that the guy you were eating dinner with last night, is gone.

    Am I jaded? Cynical? Of course. No one goes through that kind of environment and isn’t changed in some manner. It has been my experience that most of the folks that were in that environment are like diamonds- you go through the pressure and come out something different, something better. Some break, and it’s a hard road for them, because while I can’t describe those things above, they play through my mind in a high definition you could never appreciate.

    I remember landing back in the US at Ft. Benning, Georgia. It was November and the air was a crispness that to this day sits in my minds eye- I could never describe it. The green of the trees was so rich, the song birds were singing and the sky was a blue so pure. I notice a lot of things now that I might have taken for granted earlier.

    The left makes he laugh when they talk of peace. Folks like Dan who’ve never served nor appreciate what it is like to serve. To put your own safety, your being a fatherhood, your being a husband- everything- aside for the idea that you so love, so cherish. I had a choice in going to Iraq- I didn’t have to go. I had the option to leave, whenever I wanted. I stayed. I stayed because I believed in the mission and the men. We were right in what we did. A thousand smiles from Iraqi men, women and children tell me so.

    Emotionally wrecked? I suppose, I’m typing with tears and smile, but I wouldn’t change it for the world.

  75. Tex, naaah, Chen was thick-skinned for the football game AKA Presidential race. When it comes to government policy, he’s either thin skinned or just doesn’t give a damn ….. or is too young to stick with the program. I’ll always give him props for starting the WP Political Bloggers Alliance which in turn brought my blog considerably more traffic. But that’s as far as it goes.

    P.S. I know you always admired his blog design skills. It’s kinda funny that when we first met that was always your big criticism of me when you ran out of policy differences to hit me with… that my blog design sucked. 😆

  76. Gorilla, thank you so much for the honest answer to an honest question. I don’t think all folks who criticize war (any war) are totally ignorant to the tremendous sacrifice of those who serve.

    Despite your claim that you can’t describe things, you did in fact describe them quite well … and most poignantly your description of life back here where the sound of bullets is replaced by the sounds of birds chirping.

    My wife surprised me a couple of weeks ago when a plane flew over our house on September 11 and she said that she gets nervous every 9/11 when she hears planes. After reading your description, I take my wife’s reaction and multiply it 100 times and I get where your mind must be at.

    This won’t stop me from disagreeing with you on matters political, including foreign policy, but do know you have my utmost respect. Just the fact that you cope day to day is as much a testament to your courage as the time you spent in the hot zone.

  77. Gorilla, thanks for sharing that.

    I think all of us, myself included, who hide behind the armor, fortitude and might of the U.S. military, forget exactly what kind of sacrifices are being made far away. We can’t, unless we have walked a mile in your shoes. It’s almost a personal embarrassment that I only figuratively aim at domestic lib’s watermelon heads. There’s no risk for most of us.

    And I thank you not only you for your service, but every wife and kid, mom and dad, and loved ones that produced men like you. While you’re a non-believer, you and yours have been in the Taylor family prayers from the start.

  78. “R”,

    I’ve been meaning to ask you in all serious. Do you really think this was a shining moment for the Democratic party?

    I knew you and the Hipster were hanging precipitously close to going off the edge, but I was hoping the predicted outcome of a historic ass kicking had cleared your synapses enough to return to what was at one time a talented mind.

    I think Obama’s woeful performance has changed you in so many ways, you’ve become almost listless and without hope. And hope is the best of things. 😉

    Remember, as bad as the Left-wing of the Dimocratic party is, and there are no real single adjectives worthy of how inane and pathetic your party’s performance has been, you forget that we are discussing politicians.

    And no matter the party, this is the bottom of the dregs with which we are referencing – self-inflated egos with delusions of grandeur, few of any real worth. You got to hang in there man. The fact that Republicans bragging points are that they aren’t Dimocrats carries a measure of weight with the talented, intelligent, and worthy – but only a brief time. 😉

  79. I got to tell you “R” the truth. Now this is serious.

    I knew Obama overrated. I knew the man was shallow and superficial. I knew Obama completely unprepared for any real position of authority. I knew he wasn’t nearly as bright as the media made him out to be. I knew his future plans for the country would be destructive. Bottom line, I knew we were in serious trouble.

    But then I knew that back in ’97 when 60% of the country had little or no problem with a serial rapist for President’s reckless behavior, getting a blow job in the Oval office with a girl about the age of his daughter, Bible in hand on Easter Sunday of all days, then lying straight faced about it when confronted.

    But I swear to you, I never dreamed that Obama could be this positively, absolutely pathetic. I don’t know what it is about FOX News or Sarah Palin, but I have yet to meet a Lib that isn’t smitten straight from the gates of hell with either one them. And you Bozos lose the fight every, stinking time.

    How lame is this? 😆

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/28/obama-fox-news-is-destructive-to-america/?hpt=T2

  80. OK – once again I am late to the conversation. I will respond in detail, but I am running in too many different directions right now. I do offer this quickie, though:

    In 2002, the Sesame Street character Elmo “testified” before Congress on school music programs. It wasn’t the least bit controversial. Perhaps that is because unlike Stephen Colbert, Elmo didn’t shine a light on our nation’s hypocrisy and our government’s inanity.

    Yeah – but if Bert and Ernie had testified about Gay Marriage there would have been a firestorm….

  81. BiW asks: What committee would they have appeared before?

    That would be the TPBNFGR committee (Things that piss BiW off because it is not the Federal Government’s role” committee)

    😉

  82. On questions about the Bible and Christianity, the groups that answered the most right were Mormons and white evangelical Protestants.

    On questions about world religions, like Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism and Judaism, the groups that did the best were atheists, agnostics and Jews.

    This is news? Seriously, if you just thought about it for a few minutes, this shouldn’t be much of a suprise.

  83. That finding might surprise some, but not Dave Silverman, president of American Atheists, an advocacy group for nonbelievers that was founded by Madalyn Murray O’Hair.

    “I have heard many times that atheists know more about religion than religious people,” Mr. Silverman said. “Atheism is an effect of that knowledge, not a lack of knowledge. I gave a Bible to my daughter. That’s how you make atheists.”

    Self-congradulatory hype.

    “I gave my daughter a Bible, so now she’s smart like me and rejects religion.”

    Really? Did you give her a copy of the Torah? The Koran? The Mahbratta, or the Bhagavad Gita? Did she actually read any of them?

  84. That finding might surprise some, but not Dave Silverman, president of American Atheists, an advocacy group for nonbelievers that was founded by Madalyn Murray O’Hair.

    And inevitably Mr. Silverman will end up like Madalyn Murray O’Hair – dismembered and they believe stuffed in acid tanks. Not a pretty site; not a pretty ending; inevitable. God is incredibly patient – but He will not be mocked.

    —————————–

    It doesn’t surprise me a bit that atheists would know more about God’s Word than most Christians. Not at all. In fact Hippie, I have often contended that the biggest danger to one’s own salvation is one’s own assurance. I remind myself of my own doubts when I debate each of you. Never believe that you’ve got it all figured out, because as soon as you do, you’ll be humbled. Better to be hot or cold – and that is scriptural.

    There is one immutable facts about people sitting in pews on Sunday Hippie – Catholic or Protestant, There is one immutable truth about humanists and atheists.

    First, a majority of Christians are woefully ignorant of the Word beyond the simple prose fed them each Sunday morning. Most grew up in it. And HIppie, not to bash the Catholic Church as I have great admiration for its works and happen to married to a woman that once gave serious thought to becoming a nun (she’d have been a pretty nun), Catholics are the worst – complete dependence upon a priest. It is a pathetic commentary on American Christianity, because if you were to travel to any 3rd world with missions, you would find just the opposite and a hunger for spiritual knowledge. They are fair better equipped in the defense of the faith.

    In contrast, atheists and agnostics are smitten with the Bible. I mean with many of them it is their entire focus. Their act of rebellion actually feeds into the witness of God’s Word. Now many may choose to finally reject the Holy Spirit, not recognizing as the Holy Spirit, as the Word speaks of hearts so hardened that God will reject, but you can not humanly explain to me why these so called skeptics, doubters, mockers spend countless hours debating and arguing about something that supposedly doesn’t exist. It is completely illogical. If not, they are lunatics and should be discarded as mentally ill – with most I know better.

    Consider this and tell me it is not the truth. I’ve used this before, but it is applicable here and never truer:

    Romans 1:19-20
    Since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. Since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

    Sane people deep down know to have a creation there must be a Creator. We can debate exactly Who is God. That’s a far argument. But to deny a God? 🙄 Sheer madness…

  85. Man, the government is acting weird lately over Al Queda. We’re going to get hit with something by Christmas.

    Well, according to Obama, we can “absorb” it.

    If I get a vote about where we “get absorbed” first, can I suggest San Francisco or Washington D.C. – preferably as close to the White House as possible?

  86. Gorilla, I’m getting an error with your link. Of course, it comes back to a blank page on the Rutherford Lawson blog and that might be the extent of the coalition. 😆

  87. I read that “absorb it” shit. God, I hope its not true. Someone needs to ask him about that comment during one of those rare occasions where we have a non scripted moment.

  88. You know what I think Rabbit? I think Caesar misread the teleprompter. 🙂

    Where he read, “We can absorb it”, it really read “I can’t afford it.”

  89. Hey “R”,

    You know how the insufferable Graychin and to a lesser extent the existential Professor are often commenting about the “whiteness” of the TeaBagger coalition? Yeller Dawg doesn’t count. 😐 He parrots what Graychin says with a lot less panache and horrid spelling which actually detracts from Graychin’s normal drivel.

    Well, some of us where noticing today’s Obama lovefest in Madison, WI, where Obama spoke.

    Where’s all the people of color? 🙂

    http://althouse.blogspot.com/2010/09/pictures-from-periphery-of-obama-rally.html

  90. Well, according to Obama, we can “absorb” it.

    Yes yes Liz waste-of-human-life Cheney. The Bush admin is on the record for making the exact same statement. Please …. put a sock in it.

  91. God, I hope its not true.

    This my friends is why you guys need to bite your lip real hard and watch Countdown. It’s the only goddam way you’re going to get any balance.

    I’ll repeat 109 for the record again … the Bush admin used the exact phrase “absorb the impact of an event ” and no one ran around like chickens with their heads cut off.

    Here’s one of many sources:
    http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dc/2010/09/bush-beat-obama-to-the-punch-o.html

    Rabbit, I fully expect Tex to go into full conservative propaganda mode but I actually have higher standards for you.

    And even if the Bush admin had never said, which they did, what is the problem with Obama’s statement? What do you knuckleheads think the folks in Washington do? They do threat assessments. They determine how well we can absorb various attacks.

    That Liz Cheney, a scumbag just like her father, could criticize Obama for this boggles the mind, 👿

  92. Where’s all the people of color?

    ROTFLMAO …. it’s Wisconsin .. you wanted them bussed in? And besides, what does that prove? Simply that Obama’s appeal transcends race. 😉

  93. Gorilla did indeed have a bad case of linkslexia tonight. I wanted to fix the links for him using my magic blog editing capabilities but unfortunately all the links were null, as in “‘”.

    G, when you get a chance, if you want, you can repost.

  94. Um Rabbit, since Rutherford holds me in low regard and you in high regard, let me slip into Conservative propaganda mode and give the exact Bush quote vis-a-vis the Obama quote. And we’ll let you decide if they are one in the same. 😉

    First the Bush quote:
    We must now focus on the resilience of the system as a whole – an approach that centers on investments that make the system better able to absorb the impact of an event without losing the capacity to function.

    Now the Chicago Messiah’s quote:
    “we can absorb a terrorist attack. We’ll do everything we can to prevent it, but even a 9/11, even the biggest attack ever…we absorbed it and we are stronger.”

    We used to have a word for that Rutherford claim lost in the vernacular of Progressivism: duplicity :smile

  95. And now for something completely different.

    I want to pose a bizarre paradoxical choice, especially to the men of the blog (women feel free to offer your opinion but you’ll have to change the genders in the hypothetical in order to respond.)

    The NBC show “Medium” had its season premiere and although I did not watch it, I read the premise that they did a “Freaky Friday” themed episode in which the female protagonist and her daughter “traded bodies”. Now, this premise is not new … it’s been done in more than one movie. But Medium put a spin on it apparently when the daughter (invested with the personality of her mother) jumped into bed with her father, to his great disgust.

    So now my hypothetical. Your wife and your 14 year old daughter have traded bodies. You are VERY horney. Do you:

    A. F*ck the 14 year old body that has your wife’s personality (knowing that she’ll love it cos she’s actually an adult in a kids body)
    B. F*ck the adult that has your kid’s personality (knowing that she would find it creepy cos she’s actually a kid in an adult body)
    C. Jerk off to porn until your family trades bodies back again.
    D. None of the above.

    Now I’m about as big a perv as they come but every time I’ve heard the “Freaky Friday” scenario my mind never went there. Once I read about the Medium plot, it got me to thinking. I haven’t settled on an answer yet.

  96. Regarding 113, if I were an anti-Bush propagandist I could easily take his administration’s words and say, why are you talking about absorbing another attack? Why are you being so fatalistic? This of course was Liz daughter-of-the-dick Cheney’s approach.

    It’s totally bogus.

    And for that matter, where is my merry band of patriots applauding Obama for re-affirming America’s ability to take a terrible hit and still come out swinging? What hypocrites!

  97. Rutherford, have you ever posed that high-level of perception at yourself and recognized when you get busted, you consistently provide this

    ROTFLMAO ….

    So what? It’s Wisconsin which is 85% whitey. Where’s the 15% of darkies? That ain’t transcending race – that’s pure vanilla.

    You bunch of duplicitous, sorry bastards with your transparent double standards and mountain of hypocrisy. And you wonder why you’re about to get your asses kicked?

  98. And for that matter, where is my merry band of patriots applauding Obama for re-affirming America’s ability to take a terrible hit and still come out swinging? What hypocrites!

    OH bullshit. Our numb nuts for President has resigned himself to the fact he is incompetent and can’t protect us. Remember the good old days about two months in Numb Nut’s presidency when you bomars used to say “Obama has protected us for XX days.” Yuck, yuck.

    Then that blew up in your face.

    What happened to all that dialogue? How’d that work out for us?

  99. No, I”m not disturbed at Obama having “AN ALL WHITE AUDIENCE.” There’s millions of rubes that believed BONGO would transcend race. Now the only thing he transcends is trying to keep from sinking into the abyss.

    Then that blew up in your face too. 🙂

  100. Oh Rutherford, next time you meet up with Herr Obama, could you give him a Bible lesson direct from Tex.

    Yesterday, I think, Obama was going on about his “Christian transformation” (blow job blow job), and how his family was “spiritual”, whatever that means – it’s usually code for I don’t understand a damn thing about religion and I’m going to fake it.

    Would you tell Obama for me that Jesus didn’t say, “I am my brother’s keeper?”

    Obama was at least 4,000 years off in his understanding, probably many thousands of years more, and didn’t even get the right Testament. 😆

    That’s from Genesis where Cain said to God, “Am I my brother’s keeper?”

  101. Referring to #122, okay I win.

    I know when you’ve been overloaded with charges and none of your lackeys are here – and you may be the only honest lib left, minus the propaganda, denial, Palin Derangement Syndrome, and blind spots. 🙂

    I won’t push my luck.

  102. OK Tex … now rewind back to 114 and answer the moral dilemma! I’m guessing that 90% of you guys would choose either C or D. Even if under choice A, she begged you for it! 👿

  103. Tex, I just glanced at my blog stats and it might interest you to know that I got one hit yesterday from someone doing either a Google or Yahoo search on “tex taylor”. LOL Are you being stalked?

  104. Rutherford… 😆

    Oh well, you know how I get around. Especially when I’m a little boogered up and wasting time on another Lib blog I’ve been tormenting.

    I’m sure somewhere I’ve made one or two mortal enemies. Pass this along will you if I suddenly disappear from here for a week or two. 🙂

    P.S. – Your question was so twisted, I was trying to ignore it. You’ll understand after you’ve had a teen age daughter.

  105. R – gotta go with Tex on 124. The question is particularly creepy if you have a teen daughter. Creepy enough, in fact, that I have trouble even thinking about it.

    Interestingly, even the way I viewed my students changed significantly when they started being the same age as my oldest daughter.

  106. OK – I finally have a moment to respond to the actual text of R’s article…. We are in the first round of mid-terms, so I am a tad busier than usual.

    Unlike Rutherford, I wasn’t able to watch the entirety of the Colbert testimony live – nor have I had the time to go back and watch all of it online. What I have seen I have found very very funny. I found myself cheering with a “You get em’ Steve!” attitude. What a great bunch of zingers! I find myself agreeing with virtually every point he made (correction – because he was playing it sarcastic I found myself disagreeing – and hence agreeing).

    Still, in the end, I think it was a bad mistake for Colbert to play it that way – and in fact a bad mistake for dems to even have invited him. Gorilla described him as an asshole over on the other thread – and I agreed – even though I enjoy his comedy and I agree with his points.

    My reasons are entirely amoral and tactical. We are coming up on midterm elections, and the right wing is very angry. The polls suggest that the anger will in fact lead to large gains for the GOP in both houses of congress. Loss of control of the house is almost a sure thing. The senate is still up for grabs, though – and will probably come down to the wire.

    So – from a purely tactical point, did Colbert’s testimony do anything to help Dems in November? No, I really don’t think so. I don’t think that anyone will be more likely to vote for a Democrat because of what Colbert said.

    Did Colbert’s testimony do anything to hurt Dems? Yes – I think that is quite possible. It made the angry right even angrier. Angry voters are more likely to turn out and vote – and turnout WILL be the deciding factor in November. Colbert has made the right angrier, and provided lots of sound bites that Pravda-FOX and others can play over and over to throw fuel on the fire.

    So -dems gain nothing, but possibly lose a lot. Bottom line – it was a dumb move.

    You will remember that I made the exact same argument about burning Korans – that we gained nothing, yet lost something by giving radical Islam another excuse to be angry. When I made that argument, BiW countered with Sun Tzu – who suggested it is good strategy to taunt an angry opponent – perhaps goading them into making a foolish move. I don’t think it applied to the Koran burning, and I don’t think it applies now.

    So – although I enjoyed Colbert’s humor, and enjoyed seeing him stick it to the right wing, in the end I think it was a foolish move.

  107. Nail them both and compare notes!!!

    LOL … ah Gorilla, never a man to shy away from a challenge. Bravo!

    To Tex and HP, while the original question was stated with pure prurient interest, there actually is a deeper ramification. Are we our bodies? Or is our essence beyond the corporeal? I often hear folks say about their relatives with advanced Alzheimers that their relative is “no longer there”.

    In my hypothetical, I shouldn’t have allowed choices C and D … provides too much wiggle room. Because, again, on a deeper level, when we make love to our wives, is it the body or the “person” we are interacting with? To what extent is the sex act, ipso facto, objectification of the partner?

    On a side-note but very related, I remember a story that the actor Sam Waterston told once. He was on the beach one day and in the distance saw a beautiful young woman who got him kinda hot and bothered. Once she got closer, he realized it was his daughter and it really disgusted him. Why should a natural physical reaction have shamed him so? Should he never have been focused on the physical in the first place?

    I’m just asking. If I had to do it over again, I would have gone into psychology and studied human sexuality, not from a biological POV but from a purely behavioral perspective. I do find it fascinating.

    P.S. Perhaps this is one reason I have a certain sympathy for gays.

  108. HP, thank you for the fuller assessment of Colbert and yes I see your point. What got lost in the translation and this was inevitable because the news media only focuses on what will bring eyeballs to the screen, was Colbert’s final statement which I have included in this article. If you haven’t played the video above, you should. At this point in the hearing, Colbert broke character and finally decided to give an honest answer. You may be right that we would have been better served if he’d stuck to that approach from the start.

    So yes, I suppose I loved the “gotcha’s” but it probably was at best a Pyrrhic victory.

  109. Rutherford asks: Are we our bodies?

    Oh – don’t get me started…. Philosophy of Mind is one of my academic hobbies – and the mind-body problems is probably my foremost interest in that realm….

    Personally, I tend toward monism (i.e., we are our bodies) but I don’t find the position at all comfortable.

  110. I’ll admit to a story “R” – one that’s actually embarrassing.

    I’ve got two pretty daughters (they take after mom). The oldest one was also quite an athlete and even her father recognizes the “brickhouse” body when I see one. And she works at it and has since high school.

    One day, I was to pick my daughter up from the airport. This gal had her back turned to me and was bent over for something. I about wrecked the car ogling the hard body, as I mentioned to my brother-in-law have you ever seen a nicer butt that that buddy? Then she turned around.

    My daughter. 😳 I was almost sick to my stomach. That’s as close as I’ve ever felt to being a sick pervert. And I think that’s a real healthy reaction too, because these scumbags that molest their own daughters should be tried, and if found guilty put in front of a firing squad, after they’ve head their nerts shoved down their throat.

    Got to admit “R”, even with my daughter’s equally hard body friends that used to traipse through the house in skimpy nighties during a sleep over or stay from college, I would not tempt myself to ogle. And it’s damn hard to keep your eyes looking up. I didn’t look at women the same way anymore once my own daughters physically became women. Having daughters definitely changed me.

  111. Well it’s funny HP that I just realized another big issue that revolves around mind/body … the whole notion of transgender individuals. I must confess that when I first heard about transsexuals I had a mocking attitude. It seemed purely preposterous to me that anyone could be a “man born in a woman’s body”. But if one resists pure ignorance and considers the notion, one is again confronted with the whole notion of what goes on in our mind vs our physical “configuration”.

    Just your use of the word monism tells me you’re much further along in consideration of these things than I am. I wish I had the time and initiative to go deeper on topics like this. As I said, I could probably devote a lifetime’s work to it had I made different choices.

  112. I can’t believe two educated and gifted writers, forgetting their lib for a minute, find Stephen Colbert funny. George Carlin was funny; Animal House was funny; A Christmas Story is funny; Eddie Murphy & Richard Pryor were funny; Tim Conway is funny; Rita Rudner is very funny; even Raymond was funny.

    Colbert shtick is silly or stupid and not funny. Jon Steward is occasionally funny. Just immature humor, not particularly clever and certainly not on Capital Hill.

    Him being there was like asking Rosanne to sing the National Anthem.

  113. I don’t normally knock Republicans here, though some deserve it.

    But has anyone seen the new political ad about Lisa Murkowski? Princess Lisa? Probably the most humiliating political ad I’ve ever seen – and she deserves it.

  114. Hey Rutherford, I have a suggestion for a post. Why not post something more complicated and relevant to all of us? Game changing really.

    Like Afghanistan? Because I’m convinced that where the Left was always fond of calling Iraq a waste of blood and resources, I’m beginning to feel that way about Afghanistan. From their corrupt, ungrateful government to their Pashtun citizenry with a wink and a nod to the Taliban, undoubtedly these animals prefer to live in a cesspool, and the women didn’t mind the beatings and the burkas.

    As far as I’m concerned, neither Afghanistan or Pakistan is worth so much as a hangnail of one of our own.

    And you say I am always criticizing Obama. Well, here’s one thing the man is doing right, so set this to memory Hippie.

    Predator Drones…

    I

  115. Like Afghanistan? Because I’m convinced that where the Left was always fond of calling Iraq a waste of blood and resources, I’m beginning to feel that way about Afghanistan. From their corrupt, ungrateful government to their Pashtun citizenry with a wink and a nod to the Taliban, undoubtedly these animals prefer to live in a cesspool, and the women didn’t mind the beatings and the burkas.

    Tex, I wouldn’t put it in exactly those terms – but in principle I agree. I think it is a lost cause to try to being Western Democracy to a tribal culture that has existed for thousands of years.

    Changing their government is not going to work. The Russians found that out back in the 1980s – it would be nice if we would have learned from that. You call their government ungrateful, but I don’t think that is quite the right description. It is ita little odd because they have never had a centralized government to begin with so the one we installed really isn’t “their” government. I think we would probably be “ungrateful” as well if an invading nation tried to install a form of government different from our own.

    I would much prefer to leave them to their own devices. Unfortunately, that isn’t really an option now – because left to their own devices they develop terrorist camps and the like and they do become a threat to us. Predator drones perhaps keep things “down” for a while, but I don’t see it as a viable long term strategy.

    I don’t know what the solution is.

  116. In my hypothetical, I shouldn’t have allowed choices C and D … provides too much wiggle room. Because, again, on a deeper level, when we make love to our wives, is it the body or the “person” we are interacting with? To what extent is the sex act, ipso facto, objectification of the partner?” – R

    You sound like a girl. Are we making love or are we fucking?

    Here’s the real question: do you care? If you love the person you’re with, then it’s the former. If you don’t, then it’s the latter. But to make up some ridiculous ‘mind swap’ scenario, well, invites and deserves a more baser response.

  117. Tex, I wouldn’t put it in exactly those terms – but in principle I agree. I think it is a lost cause to try to being Western Democracy to a tribal culture that has existed for thousands of years.” – HP

    HP, I would invite you to read this. We’re talking about a nation that has literally devolved, unlike anything we’ve ever seen anywhere else.

  118. Gorilla,

    Was it you that told us (or me) that Afghanistan was one major paved road? One? That doesn’t even count as civilization in the 21th century. That’s stone age.

    Hippie,

    I don’t think there is much dispute amongst our pols, no matter the party, that Afghan president Hamid Karzai is corrupt. It’s one of the few things the pols do agree.

    I’ll tell you why I feel the powers that be (almost a misnomer) in Afghanistan are parasites, and it stems from a comment that Karzai made I believe on Meet the Press. I hope Rutherford will help me out on this one, because when Rutherford and I both stand with our mouths agape in shock over a comment, rest assured it was outrageous. That was the final straw for me.

    In addition, for several years I keep reading crap like this (and I thought I would never reference the NY Slimes). And you were right the other day; Apocalypse must be upon us.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/26/world/asia/26afghan.html

  119. Indeed, they have what is called the Ring Road, which goes around the country. It’s the only real major road they have.

    I think most of it is paved…

  120. Gorilla – interesting article…

    I found the comments section quite interesting too. Lots of different theories about the cause of the decline. Some blame us, some blame the Russians, some blame the Pakistanis and Indiana, and some blame colonialism in general.

    Curious – what are your thoughts on the cause of this decline?

  121. HP,

    I think the answer revolves around Maslow’s hierarchy of needs.

    Those pictures from the 60’s show self-actualization and esteem, and it isn’t hard to think that love and belonging were there too. But when all of the major institutions of state and society collapse, then people move to the baser modes of social interaction, tribalism being one. That is where security is today, within the tribal structure.

    Afghanistan is literally hovering between physiological and safety tiers of the pyramid.

    I’ve always believed that democracy is one of the most resource intensive political systems there is. It requires self-actualization to be effective, but I also think that democracy facilitates self-actualization. So we have to figure out how to kick start self-actualization without societal esteem or love and belonging.

  122. Hippie, we all know it’s the Hoosiers that are responsible.

    😆

    Good thing Hippie is “generally” a good sport. The professor will get a hoot out of that one.

    I still think my personal letter for admission to med school beats Hippie’s faux pax when I said, “I have been married to the same women for 20 years.”

    I’m still fighting charges of polygamy.

  123. See Rutherford, I created a new thread and you didn’t have to do a thing but participate. 🙂

    Good thing you’re a good sport too.

  124. Actually, my first post Ph.D. job was as adjunct faculty at Indiana – and I was there for five years. It was during the Bobby Knight era, in fact, so I am well aware of what Hoosiers are capable of. I suspect in fact they were responsible for Afghanistan….

    (when oh when am I going to learn to type….)

  125. LOL Thanks Tex for starting a new thread. If you don’t watch out I’ll make you a permanent guest blogger now that my poor old friend The Rigorist seems to have permanently disappeared. I actually owe him a note just to make sure he’s still in the land of the breathing.

    I do have a topic on the side burner which will likely go live tonight. No, it’s not Afghanistan.

  126. Rutherford said, a while back…. Tex, I just glanced at my blog stats and it might interest you to know that I got one hit yesterday from someone doing either a Google or Yahoo search on “tex taylor”. LOL Are you being stalked?

    I just noticed the same thing on my blog stats – including a search for “tex taylor wikipedia” – apparently somebody thinks tex is important enough to have his own wikipedia article…..

    😉

  127. …and I just did that very search and discovered that Tex was apparently a minor league baseball player from 1951 to 1958 – or else the title of a western comic book in the 1940s….

    So little we know of each other….

    😉

  128. Possum,

    I thought I would pop in to say…it definitely wasn’t me 🙂 I can’t imagine wanting to know more about Tex Taylor.

    I was going to come in earlier, but your “musky scent” was too much to bear. I had to wait until the stink cleared. But it was a reminder why you’re running through the woods still looking for a man.

  129. Professor,

    I just noticed the same thing on my blog stats – including a search for “tex taylor wikipedia” – apparently somebody thinks tex is important enough to have his own wikipedia article…..

    I’m working on it. 😉 Probably the room Tuna La Possum directed me to, where I barged in to the Libbie Lovefest and “introduced myself.” If only I could type faster….

  130. Damn Rutherford, your mind swap thing actually grossed me out. I know I have crossed the line here many times, but I have to say, what the fuck? Some shit just shouldn’t even theoretically explored, dude.

    Working with 17 and 18 year old cheerleader types day in and day out has caused me literally to cut hard wiring in my brain.

    My buddies always give me shit and say they could never work in my environment. I try to tell them that its actually very easy to go offline, so to speak. You guys would think I was gay.

    Now, what gets me, and it does happen annually, are the sex crazed Moms who bluntly come on to me.

    40 year old, divorce cougars don’t give a damn if you are married and can be very up front about it. The Rabbit loves MILFs too. I’ve have had some crazy conferences. I wish I could be a cheater and not care. But the guilt would be too much. Plus, I would probably pop like Forest Gump its been so long since I had some strange.

  131. Graychin’s here! Hey Gray! 🙂

    You’ve got a female friend here. Gray meet Tuna; Tuna a kindred spirit in Gray.

    Rabbit, you’re funnier than hell. Those last two paragraphs I could have repeated a hundred times. It amazes me how aggressive some women are anymore.

    I went to my 30th year reunion and had to share a chair with a gal – one cheek on, one cheek off. As the minutes went by, it became more of a grinding lap dance. I didn’t even know what to say. I sat there numb like some 14 year old. It was like she was in heat.

  132. LOL Rabbit … that made me laugh out loud. Heck … 17, 18? Nowadays a lot of these girls are only 14 or 15 and you’d never know it … well except that being a teacher, you know what grade they’re in.

    I don’t know how you don’t wear blinders all day! 🙂

    I gather you think the whole mind/body topic is just that much more intellectual bullsh*t?

  133. I didn’t even know what to say. I sat there numb like some 14 year old. It was like she was in heat.

    LOL I always tell my wife, “you have no worries … you are the only one on the planet who finds me remotely attractive.”

    So I’m afraid I have no stories of aggressive women. Well there was an ophthalmologist assistant once … but I think that was more my imagination. 🙂

  134. Hey Tex …. what blog have you been tormenting lately? I wanna go see you in action … heck I won’t even comment, just lurk. Sometimes I do find your nastiness entertaining. I’m so ashamed. 😳

  135. “R”,

    I’ll tell you off line. I don’t want to give Tuna any ammunition for her cowardly comments to come in and snitch, then run.

    But it was damn humorous. One threatened me with her massive donation to the DNC. 😆 You’ll love my response to that one, as I encouraged her to send even more. Another was going to take my posts as a threat to national security and why they must be passed thru the blogosphere as a warning to other “progressives.”. A third told me I’d “been busted”, but couldn’t tell me what I was busted for when pressed. It was mere child’s play. One was actually very polite and nice and made the attempt to befriend. And then I got asked to write guest commentary for their blog.

    I guess you and the Hipster have prepared me for battle more than I ever dreamed. As Libs go, you both are better than about 99% of the dolts I’ve debated. Even Mr. Pragmatic is better than most Leftists – Yeller Dawg is more the example I find.

  136. I guess you and the Hipster have prepared me for battle more than I ever dreamed. As Libs go, you both are better than about 99% of the dolts I’ve debated. Even Mr. Pragmatic is better than most Leftists – Yeller Dawg is more the example I find.

    I’ll second that.

  137. The liberals are asking us to give Obama time.

    We agree… 25 to life would be appropriate. — Jay Leno

    America needs Obamacare like Nancy Pelosi needs a Halloween mask. — Jay Leno

    Have you heard about McDonald’s’ new Obama Value Meal?

    Order anything you like and the guy behind you has to pay for it. — Conan O’Brien

    What does Barack Obama call lunch with a convicted felon?

    A fund raiser. — Jay Leno

    What’s the difference between Obama’s cabinet and a penitentiary?

    One is filled with tax evaders, blackmailers, and threats to society.

    The other is for housing prisoners. — David Letterman

    If Nancy Pelosi and Obama were on a boat in the middle of the ocean and it started to sink, who would be saved? America ! — Jimmy Fallon

    What’s the difference between Obama and his dog, Bo?

    Bo has papers. — Jimmy Kimmel

    What was the most positive result of the “Cash for Clunkers” program?

    It took 95% of the Obama bumper stickers off the road. — David Letterman

    Who knew David Letterman could still be funny? – Tex Taylor

  138. Dear LIbs,

    To prove to each of you why America has turned on Obama, would need look no further than your pathetic majority Congress that accompanies him.

    When you can’t even pass a budget or have a vote about yes or no on a mandatory massive tax increase January 1, 2011, in this economy, that is the absolute height of incompetence.

    I’m sorry, I give many of you a really hard time, Rutherford most of all. But in all seriousness, for all of the inane, inept politicians I have witnessed in my lifetime, and they are legend on both sides of the aisle, this Congress could not have worse had they made the attempt to do so. Maybe that was the plan after all.

  139. INSTANT CLASSIC! 😆

    Is it possible that there is a method to Obama’s madness–that he is deliberately upsetting the “progressive” extremists in pursuit of what is called a “Sister Souljah moment”?

    Some background for our younger readers. Sister Souljah is the stage name of Lisa Williamson, who describes herself as a “hip-hop generation best selling author, activist, recording artist, and film producer,” and by the way “the most powerful and meaningful person speaking to youth and students today.”

    In 1992, after the Los Angeles riots, Williamson was quoted as saying, “If black people kill black people every day, why not have a week and kill white people?”

    In a speech to the Rainbow Coalition, at a conference where Williamson was also scheduled to speak, Gov. Bill Clinton criticized her remark: “If you took the words ‘white’ and ‘black’ and reversed them, you might think David Duke was giving that speech.” This enraged Jesse “Reverend” Jackson and made Clinton look reasonable by comparison.

    But Obama’s criticism of his base does not have a Sister Souljah feel to it. Far from looking moderate, he made clear to his most extreme supporters that his goals are as extreme as theirs. He criticized them only for expecting more than he has the practical capacity to deliver. It’s as if Gov. Clinton had responded to Lisa Williamson’s quote by saying that setting aside a week to kill white people would be a tactical mistake and her refusal to consider a more incremental approach suggests she wasn’t serious in the first place.

    *** GUFFAW ***

  140. Tex, while hilarious, sadly most humor is based in truth. I must admit, my fav was the purse pull.

    As for the late night comedians, you can no longer say they give liberals a free pass.

  141. “R”,

    I thought about that too. The comedian was funny, especially how slow he was having to run (he did a pretty good white men can’t jump run) to stay equidistant from the white chick, but there is no doubt the satire was based on fact.

    Do you remember several years ago when the insufferable Rev. Jesse Jackson of Love Child fame made the same claim?

    This is paraphrased but it was something to the extent of about what Obama said his grandmother said: “confessing his fear of not white men but young black men who he passed on the street?

  142. I’ve been trying to figure out who Blockhead Grayson reminds me of – he is one ugly SOB.

    And I think it’s a cross between Hoss Cartwright (and Dan Blocker was a great actor who died before his time) and Private Pyle from the movie Full Metal Jacket.

    If Grayson wore something besides the salad bowl haircut, I think we could slap a couple of bolts out of his neck and make a pretty good Frankenstein too. 😉

    There are a few Libs that need to burn. That despicable POS should be hit with a thermobaric bomb type of burn.

  143. John Steward, the late night lineup, even Olbermann. . . and Chris Tingle-Toggle Matthews having fun with Obama, dropping the sycophantic praise and — gasp — saying a phrase here or there that is actually true about their (former) messiah? Karma really is a bitch.

  144. Grayson is about the best thing either party has going for it these days. Seriously – you have to like a politician who has the guts to say what he thinks without mincing any words. I wish more politicians acted this way. You may find him offensive, but at least he is honest.

  145. Even when it is a lie?

    Listen, twisting the words of others 180 out from what was actually said, then using that distortion for political gain. Hmmmmm, I think we can do without that kind of honesty…

  146. Levin is great – now there is honestly. 😆

    I wish the great one was even more popular. Now there is somebody that doesn’t mince words and knows what he’s talking about.

    I hope Rutherford or Hippie pen another one of those we can’t lower corporate tax rates because it will empty the federal coffers type posts.

    Because I got to thinking the other nght, even if I don’t agree with and I don’t think they get the calculus of marginal returns, let’s say they are right for a minute. Revenues do go down to government.

    Is our main purpose, our capital premise, our economic engine based on enlarging government? Or is to employ as many people as possible, thereby allowing more individual choice and independence through increasing private sector wealth?

    I know what my answer is. And I heard the other day that the United States corporate tax rate is almost twice what the average corporate tax rate of all industrialized country. Throw in FICA, health care costs, union goons, and outrageous state taxes, does anybody really wonder why manufacturing is leaving? They’d be stupid not to.

  147. A Stanford Professor rips higher education…

    Most of what we are told about universities is untrue. America’s reputation for higher learning excellence (in business, sciences, medicine, engineering, and finance) is despite not because of the humanities and social sciences. Current research in the liberal arts (the portfolio the English or sociology prof is tenured on) increasingly has almost no relevance to the general public or applicability to teaching or even scholarly merit.

    Diversity is Orwellian: the university is the most politically intolerant and monolithic institution in the country, even as it demands the continuance of tenure to protect supposedly unpopular expression. Even its emphases on racial diversity is entirely constructed and absurd: Latin Americans add an accent and a trill and they become victimized Chicanos; one-half African-Americans claim they are more people of color than much darker Punjabis; the children of Asian optometrists seek minority and victim status.

    Meanwhile on the labor front, liberal faculties prove far more illiberal than K-Mart. Part-time faculties now account for 40% of the units offered at many universities, earning 30-40% of the wages per unit of full professors, and mostly without benefits. There is no outrage from those who customarily damn CEOs from the lounge. Tuition rises faster than both inflation and the cost of health care, and yet the twin promises of a BA degree are no longer kept: today’s graduates are not so likely to get a choice job, and are not certified as literate in English or competent in math.

    At some point, all this cannot go on, and we will have the academic version of September 15, 2008 — as parents no longer choose to take on $200,000 in debt to send their children to 4-year liberal arts schools, in which they will be likely indoctrinated that they should oppose the very American institutions that created the wealth and freedom that fuel their colleges and pay their faculties.

    We have in a way already reverted to the sociology of the 19th century of an elite and a non-lettered mass, but without its benefits. One-hundred years ago, very few went to college. Only a well-schooled elite did, as the rest learned through the school of hard knocks. (My grandfather never went to college, but used to chant to me when I came home from college his high-school Latin “amo-amas-amat” as he irrigated the vineyard at 82.) Today we try to graduate almost everyone, in the process ensuring that for 4-6 years they are not apprenticing at anything other than Starbucks, “The Poetics of the Low-rider,” and university psycho-dramas over dating and oogling. I wonder whether today’s entering freshman is any better educated than someone in 1890 who was farming at the same age. I note that 50% of incoming freshmen at the CSU system must take remedial math and English. I suppose the new Obama student loan take-over in part is designed to protect the status quo, ossified university that staffs his administration and provides the fire for so many of his agendas.

    Hippie, I’m not condemning you. You take what the market offers. But now you maybe understand why I think a majority of professors in the Liberal Arts are some of the most hypocritical, phony people on earth. Talk about throwing stones in glass houses.

  148. Man, I just learned that one of the first things the Taliban did when they first occupied Kabul was partake in a blood orgy at the national zoo.

    Only 3 animals lived.

    A bear which had its nose cut off because its “beard wasn’t long enough”.

    A lion which is missing part of its face because of a grenade (said lion did bite off one Taliban arm).

    And a loan wolf.

    That’s it.

  149. I have to disagree with my friend HP regarding Alan Grayson. When he first came on the national scene saying Republican’s health care program was “die quickly” I got that tingle up the leg. Very cathartic. But at least for the time being, I have decided Grayson is too much show and too little substance. His contest with Contessa Brewer was at best a tie, at worst a crushing defeat. He attacked Contessa rather than defend himself. Not cool.

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