You Say You Want a Revolution

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The little engine that could roared into the station last night stunning all the naysayers. Delaware political fixture Mike Castle was defeated in his bid to be the Republican nominee for Senator by perennial loser Christine O’Donnell. Unlike prior attempts to win state-wide office, this year O’Donnell had the Tea Party and Sarah Palin behind her. The GOP establishment is beside itself convinced that the very odd O’Donnell doesn’t stand a snow ball’s chance in hell of beating Democratic nominee Chris Coons. Karl Rove has been vocal in his opposition to O’Donnell on the grounds she has a checkered past. Sarah Palin is telling the party to grow up.

Liberals might delight at this internecine warfare but I’d be cautious. O’Donnell was not the only strange bird to win a nomination last night. Carl Paladino, best known during this campaign season for forwarding pornographic pictures via email beat the well-known, if not well liked Rick Lazio for the GOP gubernatorial candidacy in New York. When we add this on top of the emergence of Sharron Angle and Rand Paul, we have more than just isolated odd cases. We have a trend. The question is defining the trend accurately.

I think the trend goes beyond throwing out incumbents. I think the trend goes beyond a Republican tsunami in November. I think the trend is evidence of the extreme anger of the American people. They are so pissed that they are deliberately choosing in-your-face fringe candidates. They don’t just want to “throw the bums out”. They want to remake the system. They want to put folks in charge who say things we haven’t heard in decades like Rand Paul’s questioning of 1960’s civil rights legislation or O’Donnell’s stand against … wait for it … masturbation. It is almost as though the more of a crackpot the candidate is, the better this new breed of angry voter likes it.

My smug liberal friends dismiss the Angles and the O’Donnells. I used to also. But when a man whose name was synonymous with Delaware politics, a Gopher thriving in a Dem state,  can be sent packing, all bets are off. In other countries when the people get angry, violent revolution is often the result. I am beginning to think that this country might be due for its own revolution and the voters’ insane rage will not take the form of violence but will instead take the form of electing fringe candidates who will lead our country down who knows what path.

Last night
I saw the fire spreadin’ to
The palace door.
Silent majority
Weren’t keepin’ quiet
Anymore.

John Fogerty – “EFFIGY”

Respectfully,
Rutherford

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92 thoughts on “You Say You Want a Revolution

  1. It’s a troubling trend. My more hopeful self thinks that perhaps this is good, that they’re nominating folk that can’t win in the general elections and this election cycle will alert even their supporters to that. But Rand Paul here in my own Kentucky has a real good chance of winning. Perhaps some of the others do, too.

    I relax a bit in the realization that, even if all of these TP types win (shudder) they can be only so effective in power. Gov’t, for good and for bad, tends to take the wind out of many a sail and average things out.

    If Paul et al all won, they won’t undo civil rights, they won’t outlaw masturbation, they won’t do anything too extreme. The American people tend to be a slow moving people, in my thinking.

  2. As to the violent revolution, I don’t see it. I think we have a large minority of angry voters who get too easily riled and a small percentage of THOSE citizens might even be convinced to take up arms, but the violence is mostly rhetorical and letting off steam.

    No matter how angry they are, when it comes to actually endorsing pulling triggers on their fellow citizens, no one really wants to go there.

    My main concern would be isolated incidents of violence amongst the more extremists if they perceive that things aren’t going their way.

  3. Rutherford,

    You make out these candidates as fringe. I think you/re wrong. The Republican party had to change. I told you the days of RINOs were numbered two years ago. The Frums, the Katheen Parkers, Buckley’s son – goodbye and good riddance. We’re going to let you guys have them and we are going to roll you whether you like it or not. Fringe is definitely Dan, definitely Hippie, and to a lesser extent you buddy. Hippie is next on the target list, because higher education is in the scope too. It’s been ripping people of under false pretenses for years.

    Now I have no idea the quality of these new candidates. They might be loons, and if so, they’ll filter out of the system. However unlike Dumb Dan, I know Rand Paul isn’t dumb. He’s an M.D. – about sixty levels above Dan on the intelligence scale.

    Politics is changing. What you are seeing is the last chance for politics to work. You guys poo pooed me off a few years back when I told you revolution was coming. Don’t be so sure the talk of seceding, armed insurrection, and the like is hot air. I get a pretty good feel of the people because what I’m doing now spans both blue and white collar, spanning two states. Granted, they are both red, but one of them is quickly becoming the most powerful state in the nation.

    Most people have had it with liberals. People have had it with goons like Obama, Reid and Pelosi. Told you that was going to happen. And I don’t think you’ve seen the real fire yet. I can’t wait to watch this play out. I hope I can be a part of the rumble. I want to bust me a lib or two for past grievances. 🙂

  4. The last time the loonies took over the GOP and drove it into the Reichwing ditch was 1964. Goldwater took how many states? SIX.

  5. last time the loonies took over the GOP and drove it into the Reichwing ditch was 1964. Goldwater took how many states? SIX.

    Is this the same jackboot that continually calls Reagan a loon and announced 20 months ago Conservatism has now become small, regional party and was dead? 😆 The man has some form of dementia, and in combination with a room temperature IQ a danger to himself.

    How about 49 states and the most overwhelming Presidential victory in American history? You remember that one don’t you, when we rolled parasites like you to the sidelines before George Bush Sr. forgot the ground rules and opened the door?

    The mistake we made in ’84 was not running your ilk off to Mexico or Canada. We won’t make that mistake again. We’ll figure out what will make your own life so miserable while we Dawg pile you, that you’ll beg to leave. I’ll make that my personal mission for the members of the Two Useful Idiots Blog. Tell Graychin to meet me at the Ok Corral.

    I don’t think Canada wants you, as too many of your type have polluted their beautiful country and screwed that up too. They hate you up there as we do down here. But you would look good under the boot of Coyote or drug runner.

    Ahh…that sends a tingle up my leg. 🙂

  6. Oops…Of should have been OFF in #4

    Damn Rutherford, my eyes are getting so bad that I’m having to wear bifocals to read your blog and use 2 ++ to enlarge the screen.

    Getting old sucks….

  7. Fringe is definitely Dan

    Hey, Tex actually spoke a truth. Something correct about me.

    Certainly, the anabaptists are amongst the fringes of society, you are correct.

    So there, you can accurately represent me at least on occasion. It can be done.

  8. R my old pal and buddy,

    Wasn’t it you and Hippie telling me that BongoCare was really not as unpopular as the fascist right-wing media was leading everyone to believe? Now, I don’t want to have to dig up quotes again, so I’m just asking you and Professor Hipster a simple question.

    Can you therefore explain this for me then? 🙂

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0910/42257.html

  9. Oh Dan, I’m so thrilled! I made you happy. Now I want you to know how terribly important it is to me that I define you properly. 🙂

    Fringe would definitely be someone who professes to be a born again Christian that comes to all the politically correct, demonic conclusions. See, that was an easy one.

  10. If Paul et al all won, they won’t undo civil rights, they won’t outlaw masturbation, they won’t do anything too extreme. The American people tend to be a slow moving people, in my thinking.” – R

    20 months ago, we were told that the GOP was to be wandering the wilderness for the next generation, and yet here they are, about to sweep the House and potentially take the Senate. Obama, you second messiah, loses in polls against ANYONE else, with a majority believing that he doesn’t deserve a second term.

    The American people may be slow to you, but to me, when we’re pissed, we move pretty damn quick…

  11. To Tex and Tigre, listen carefully because I will say this only once.

    In retrospect, HCR was a mistake. We liberals got caught up in an ideal and a desperate need to “make history” and took our eye off the real priority. I will defend the ideals of HCR to my last breath. No one in this great country should die because they didn’t have enough money to stay healthy or get treated. Legislation to control the insurance industry and to make medical care accessible and affordable to everyone is absolutely necessary.

    The problem is, with unemployment above 9% you cannot afford to waste a year fighting for HCR. The key flaw of liberals, including me, is that we get so impassioned about what is “right” and “just” that we lose sight of the practicalities.

    Bottom line, HCR should not have been priority 1.

  12. Gorilla, one minor quibble …. that quote was inacurately attributed to me … I believe Dan said it.

    No wonder it didn’t make any sense. 😈

    Dan is an oddity, though. Chomsky Christian…an oxymoron in more ways than I can count.

    I also think he has delusions of being the modern day Polycarp – persecuted peace maker.

  13. I will defend the ideals of HCR to my last breath. No one in this great country should die because they didn’t have enough money to stay healthy or get treated.

    Socialism reads great on paper too. So does everyone owning a home, and everyone gets a piece of gum in class.

    The the reality of costs set in…

  14. Gorilla, one minor quibble …. that quote was inacurately attributed to me … I believe Dan said it.” – R

    Oh, in that case, let me add Fuck you asshole to the dialogue…

  15. “To Tex and Tigre, listen carefully because I will say this only once. In retrospect, HCR was a mistake.”

    Sorry. I printed and taped it over my credenza. That way I can read it from time to time as though you’re saying it from time to time.

    R, you’ve gone up a notch. Too bad you only recognized it after the fact. Perhaps after your “what would it be like if it turns out they’re right” there’s metaphysical explanation here.

  16. I still enjoy reading old “R” posts about the Tea Party being irrelevant, evil or some secretive tool of the GOP establishment. That wrongheaded stance wasn’t just a few comments or blog entries. It literally defined this place for awhile.

    Reading his defense of Health Care last summer is even better.

    Sucks that good guys like Rutherford were hoodwinked.

    That Democratic Party sure had Rutherford whoring on the corner all summer.

    Seriously, go back and read his stuff.

    You want to see anger?

    Wait until 2014 and the Health Care bill starts screwing good people over by the hundreds of millions.

  17. The key flaw of liberals, including me, is that we get so impassioned about what is “right” and “just” that we lose sight of the practicalities.

    The key flaw about liberals, including you, is that you continually conflate what is right and just with what you believe should happen, and because you have no understanding of right and just grounded in reality, you believe that it is right and just to force others to pay for it.

  18. I am beginning to think that this country might be due for its own revolution and the voters’ insane rage will not take the form of violence but will instead take the form of electing fringe candidates who will lead our country down who knows what path.

    R, I love you in a non-homo way, but you still don’t get it.

    1. The voters aren’t expressing an “insane” rage. We’re pissed that the whores in D.C. spending our grandkid’s money with reckless abandon and condescendingly patting us on the head when we tell them to knock that shit off. We’re pissed when people who work for US look us in the eye and tell us that we have no idea what is good for us, but they do, and therefore they’re gonna give it to us, good and hard.

    2. If we elect “fringe” candidates, its only because we have learned from repeated experience that they “mainstream” candidates too quickly forget who they work for, becoming more obsessed with getting invited to the right parties rather focusing on limited government and leaving people to pursue their own happiness rather than enslaving them to a forced mediocrity where everyone has the same sucky result.

  19. Seriously “R”. Assuming you’re right for a minute about these fringe candidates.

    How in the world could they be any worse than what we’ve had for the last 20 months. Even you’re admitting now that it has been a epic failure.

    Health care was Obama’s one big claim to fame – and now that is costing you big time. Bet you money if a Republican wins the Presidency in 2012, Obama Care will be revoked.

    And I get a little more sure by the day Obama will choose not to run in 2012. His wife will drag his ass out to party and live large, with some normalcy. And sometime down the road, she’ll vocally blame the disdain of Obama as racist. Count on it.

  20. Guys and gal(s),

    I don’t normally ask for prayers across a board, but tonight I feel it necessary to pray to some nebulous god about our friend Hippie. He’s lost it completely! A complete and utter leftist meltdown. His current is a definite must read. It’s a combination of tantrum, bewilderment and puzzlement, thrown in with a little sexual innuendo and nuance, plus conspiracy. I hope there is a follow up.

    http://www.hippieprofessor.com

    In other words, Hippie has penned a classic. I haven’t laughed that hard since Tim Conway did his “old man” shuffle on the Carol Burnett show.

    Rutherford, I give you and the Hipster a very hard time, but you guys (except your vote) do make me laugh. But you got to talk to the Hippie. He’s taking this stuff way too seriously. 😐

  21. Tex…

    How in the world could they be any worse than what we’ve had for the last 20 months.

    If they were anything like what we had the previous eight years? You know, the years that led up to the country being in the condition in which the current president received it?

  22. Tex, thanks for the redirect. LMAO. Hippe just found out there’s no Santa and his powers of rationalization have short-circuited. (Rutherford will just pretend he always knew there was no Santa and was just playing along).

    Has anyone noticed that even biggest douche bags in the media have stopped using the term Tea Bagger? Hmmmm. . .

    I’ve got the popcorn started. This is going to be truly amusing.

  23. Dan,

    Every President has inherited problems. Obama campaigned that he could solve those problems. He failed miserable as was noted this morning in L.A. where Obama’s Investment & Recovery Act was proven criminal. 55 jobs created or saved at a cost of $111,000,000.

    Two million plus per job – complete incompetence. I’ve never heard worse and Obama should be impeached, frogmarched out of the Whitehouse with his ugly wife in tow, and tossed to the curb. Obama and his cabinet are a disgrace.

    Also Dan, since November 2006, we have had a Dimocratic majority Congress. In Nov 2006, America had full employment. In the four years Dimocrats have had control of Congress, the unemployment rate has risen almost six percent. To say that the Bush and His cabinet are responsible demonstrates why I don’t like or respect you.

    Theology is not the only thing you are intellectually dishonest about.

  24. “I think the trend is evidence of the extreme anger of the American people. “

    Not exactly. I think the trend is evidence of the extreme anger of SOME of the American people. But the people who are so angry seem confused about just what they are so angry about.

    Deficits? What about closing the gap by $700 billion over ten years by taxing incomes above $250,000 at 2001 rates? No, taxes are already too high. We need to cut spending instead. What spending could you cut that would balance a budget with such a huge deficit? We’re working on that. We’ll get back too you. But defense spending is off the table.

    Dinesh D’Souza:

    Our President is trapped in his father’s time machine. Incredibly, the U.S. is being ruled according to the dreams of a Luo tribesman of the 1950s. This philandering, inebriated African socialist, who raged against the world for denying him the realization of his anticolonial ambitions, is now setting the nation’s agenda through the reincarnation of his dreams in his son. The son makes it happen, but he candidly admits he is only living out his father’s dream. The invisible father provides the inspiration, and the son dutifully gets the job done. America today is governed by a ghost.

    Seconded by Newt Gingrich, the shining intellectual light of “mainstream” Republicans:

    Gingrich says that D’Souza has made a “stunning insight” into Obama’s behavior — the “most profound insight I have read in the last six years about Barack Obama.”

    “What if [Obama] is so outside our comprehension, that only if you understand Kenyan, anti-colonial behavior, can you begin to piece together [his actions]?” Gingrich asks. “That is the most accurate, predictive model for his behavior.”

    Yes, SOME people are angry. VERY angry. But is it asking too much for them to be angry about things that are based in reality? The Christine O’Donnell supporters are likely to be the same sort of Fox News-watching nuts like some of my “conservative” friends who send me those nonsensical emails that they could have debunked with 15 seconds of effort at Snopes (or urbanlegends.com if you think that Snopes is a liberal conspiracy – as he does).

    Since it’s impossible to argue with stupid, or with people who are immune to facts, the only way to deal with this total unreality may be through satire. This morning I read that Jon Stewart will be holding a rally on the National Mall on October 30 – the Million Moderate March, the Rally to Restore Sanity. Their slogans: “Dial it back a notch,” and “I may disagree with you, but I know that you aren’t Hitler.”

    Of course Stephen Colbert is organizing a “competing” rally to “Keep Fear Alive.”

    Have you read the Declaration of Independence recently? The American Revolution was based on REAL grievances. The latter day “tea party”? Not so much.

    My analysis: most of the anger – and FEAR – is driven by some voters’ discomfort with the man who a majority of Americans elected President of the United States – the biggest majority in decades. So they are all to anxious to believe that that he is foreign-born, with a Kenyan anti-colonial ideology. A ursurper, the election stolen by ACORN. Some signs at Tea Party rallies want to take him out “by ballot or bullet.” He’s a Secret Muslim. Or a member of Rev. Wright’s blatantly Christian church. Or something.

    No wonder they want to “take their country back.” No wonder they prefer the likes of Christine O’Donnell, Sharron Angle and Rand Paul to RINOs who will actually sit down and compromise with the inherent evil that is the American Democratic Party. (aka the “Democrat” party for those of you who get your news from only one source.”

    “Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

  25. Yep G-chin They’re all idiots. Satire is the only way to deal with them. You’ve got it pegged. If only all of the retards were as smart as you and your liberal friends they’d understand what great leader Obama and the democratically controlled congress are for them. Morons. Angry, dangerous morons.

    If only they were as smart and docile as you. . . bwahahahahahahaha.

  26. Lib Self-Destruction and Denial. From imbeciles who declared Conservatism dead 22 short months ago, declaring upon victory of the Naked Teleprompting Emperor, a regional affiliation of white racists (are there any other?) with a party going the way of the Whigs. My, my how things have quickly changed.

    Unpopular health bills rammed down the throats of a majority of Americans who didn’t want it, frivolous trillion dollar giveaways to thug unions and deviants which have added nothing, 3.4 trillion dollars in additional debt in less than two years, corruption and closed door meetings after promises of transparency, worthless and costly regulations, demonizing business, foreign weakness with policies endangering America, jerking our military that doesn’t give a damn about their CiC or respect him, mocking calls of ‘Tea Baggers’.

    Yes, as I predicted these Libs are even worse losers than they were winners….the biggest majority win in decades? 1984 and 1988 was decades? 🙂

    No anger – payback for lies and running your big mouths, which you’ve never been able to back up with results. The verdict stands. EPIC FAILURE. The sixteen year Lib cycle has come to an pitiful end. Line up for ass whippings Lefty boys…

    Revenge is a plate best served cold. 😈

  27. Tiger – don’t you know that “retard” is a politically incorrect term?

    At least it is when Rahm Emanuel uses it. Sarah Palin said so. She’s still mad because Rahm didn’t apologize.

  28. “Have you read the Declaration of Independence recently? The American Revolution was based on REAL grievances. The latter day “tea party”? Not so much.”

    Yeah, because force-feeding legislation to the masses isn’t a real grievance.

    Because fiscal irresponsibility is not a real grievance.

    Because having your elected representatives represent their own wishes instead of yours is not a real grievance.

    Have you read a History book recently? If so, you’d see clearly what our revolutionary forefathers would have done with such political bullshit. Some people would have been tarred and feathered over what you people discount as mere “sausage-making” and “elections with consequences.”

    Those guys didn’t play. If we were back then, you’d know what “anger” meant, and you’d laugh at the term being used for today’s political climate.

  29. Hey, all you Conservatives. I clicked on dipshit’s Two Useful Idiots Blog that advertises for Conservative debate.

    You know that blog, don’t you, that always appears to have technical issues where Conservatives post? Advertises, but the fine print has some censoring provisos somewhere in the fine print. You Betcha Graychin. 😆

    Well, it appears that we have hurt Graychin’s feelings and the lying sack of shit poor man felt abused over here from all the hate. Of course, it probably didn’t help that he kept getting his ass handed to him on each issue.. And this time, I wasn’t the only one that caught his whining wrath. You guys give the man some traffic. He’s only got the Yellow Dawg and occasionally old Rutherford takes pity.

    Gray, do you remember when your classless ilk, of which you are master rank, sang as George Bush left the Whitehouse, “HEY HEY Goodbye…” I got a special song for Bongo when they frogmarch that worm to the pad.

    In your dishonor, I’m serenading you with that. Good riddance pussy! And take that idiot Dumbass Faux PHD name Dawgwood with you. He’s the stupidest SOB on the net.

  30. He wants me to stay away? Not a problem. I’m sure my comments would just be deleted anyway.

    I have no time or tolerance for people’s bullshit anymore.

  31. With Old Hippie hinting that he’s so beat down, he may start deleting comments, and by his own admission of intolerance for truth once liberalism has run its course and been exposed as a lie and a dismal failure, Rutherford may be the last free speech Lib standing. 🙂

    Check out this fascism from the Left. Expect this more and more as the Left’s world falls apart. When your “religion” is exposed as a sham, it’s a bitter pill to swallow. Like Obama has proven even worse than I dreamed, the Left is even more fragile than I thought. These are very weak people – no wonder they lay the heads on the chopping block for radicals.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/16/AR2010091606645.html

  32. Tex, for the record I am not planning to start deleting comments. I have put up with you for this long, no sense in changing my policy now. The comment you are referring to was an expression of bitterness. not an actual plan.

    I am indeed feeling bitter these days. I will repeat what I said on my blog: You guys have the money, you guys have the propaganda network, and with Citizens United you now have a legal way to buy politicians. The game is fixed, and you hold all the cards.

    I will keep fighting, depressing as it is.

  33. Rutherford, I have to disagree that HCR was a mistake. We were going to lose big this November, no matter what. What we should have done was pass a truly progressive reform bill – one with a strong public option. Then at least we would have a major accomplishment to show.

    The disgusting “blue dogs” were going to lose anyway, regardless of how they voted on HCR. It would have been nice of they had realized this and decided to really do the right thing – voting for a progressive bill.

  34. Huck, you and Tex really aren’t what I’m looking for on my blog.

    The statement cited by Tex states “we welcome participation from intelligent, conservative commenters who are able – and willing – to make cogent arguments for conservative principles without resorting to outrageous lies, racist nonsense, ad hominem irrelevancies, or childish gay-bashing. (Emphasis added.)

    Sorry, but there isn’t even one “conservative” commenter who participates here at Rutherford’s blog who fits that description. (BIC would come close, if he would ever take off his lawyer hat and stop pretending that he’s William Jennings Brian defending the “original intent” of the Founders who didn’t believe in evolution.)

  35. HP, I also disagree with Rutherford that passing health care reform was a mistake. Even Running a small business requires the ability to work on more than one thing at a time. How much more so for running the USA?

    Rutherford seems to believe that if Obama and Congress had only spent more Time and Effort on jobs, that they would have appeared magically. But jobs WERE Priority 1 – not health care reform. The stimulus and TARP (the parts not signed by the outgoing President Bush) were done deals before health care was moved to the front burner. And the Obama stimulus was just big enough to keep us from sinking into a full-blown depression, but not as big as it needed to be to get the economy moving again. We can thank Republican obstructionism for that. What would more time spent on the problem have done to change Republicans’ determination to see that nothing was done? All they wanted was to assure that the economy was in the worst shape possible for these next two months in 2010. Ever the statesmen, eh?

    A further point about health care – if it was going to get done in our lifetimes, it was going to have to be done in 2009. Republicans (plus Lieberman and Nelson) have pledged their eternal allegiance to Big Insurance, and Democrats may not have majorities like this again for a while. Congressional leadership and the White House get a lot of credit in my book for making it happen in the face of unprecedented obstructionism – including from the disgusting Blue Dogs like my own congressman. (Some will argue that the health care bill was / is unpopular. That’s half-true. The PROVISIONS of the bill are quite popular – if you go below the superficial polls.)

    Politically, I would rather have the stupid Republicans running around shouting “Repeal Obamacare” than running Harry Truman-style against a “do-nothing Congress.” Even if “doing nothing” was due to Republican obstruction, you don’t get political credit for trying – only for winning.

    Too bad that Obama hasn’t been bolder in his term as president. I laugh when I hear him referred to as “the most radical liberal president in history.” The “centerist” Bill Clinton was a lot more liberal than Obama. How about Lyndon Johnson? How about FDR? A lot of Obama’s “low” (lower than before) approval ratings are because people like me don’t approve of his job performance. That doesn’t mean I’m going to vote Republican. Check out THEIR approval ratings!

  36. Yeah I know I’m not what you are looking for at your blog. I support my claims with links and expect others to do the same.

    You and your pal just spout off with whatever shit you can dig out of the crack of your ass and delete any comments asking for..you know…proof.

    Hey whatever. It’s your blog. You want an unopposed echo chamber?..you’ve got it. Enjoy it.

  37. “to make cogent arguments […] without resorting to outrageous lies, racist nonsense, ad hominem irrelevancies, or childish gay-bashing.” (Emphasis added.)

    You mean like this?….

    “There are planty of places to put them. Ever been to “fly over country”?”

    or this?…

    “So I favor ripping out their livers, frying them, and serving them with a nice Chianti.”

    or this?…

    “Wow!”

    Oh boy. There’s some real cogent arguments being put forth there.

    Hypocrite.

  38. For the new idiotic right it appears that policy differences are merely the excuse for something that goes a lot deeper. The new war on elitism is not so much about policy but about identity. The elitism they oppose is not a set of policy proposals; the new elitism has a face and often a name. A relatively old Club for Growth political commercial was pointing to the latte drinking, Volvo driving and New York Times reading constituency of Howard Dean. You see, it’s not the policy anymore – it’s the people. The real America versus the coastal elites and their groupies as Sarah Palin would most likely term it.

    The new idiotic right has managed to insert resentment and envy into the conservative movement; A kind of class warfare without the ransom note. We need average people in Congress says Christine O’Donnell. Do we? Who of us would consider Washington or any of the founding fathers average? Who of us would even consider present day political figures like Mitch Daniels and Chris Christie average?

    I want my government limited but in no way would I like its managers to be average at all.

    Viewing again that O’Donnell video one thing comes to mind, something that Noel Coward said: Never mind, dear, we’re all made the same, though some more than others.

    Napoleon Linardatos , writing at FrumForum.com

  39. I have two things I wonder if our conservative friends here would address, along the lines of this post.

    1. Montana’s GOP still maintains they want to make homosexuality illegal [<a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_gays_in_montana&quot; source] – Does that represent “True conservatism” in your mind or not?

    2. If, as Tex and others have argued, the GOP has to get rid of the RINO’s, the “not true” conservatives, the Log Cabin conservatives, etc, etc… if TRIMMING down your numbers is your strategy, how does that equal winning at the polls? Seems like the “small tent” approach is not going to serve you well, how do you think it actually helps you, or do you?

  40. To HP and Gray … The stim was as you say necessary for keeping us out of a deep Depression. Agreed and I agree that Obama tackled that first. He had no choice.

    But compare Obama to FDR. FDR setup measure to put America back to work. Why don’t we see a high speed rail project underway right now? Why do we see California ablaze from old faulty gas lines? Why aren’t we manufacturing anything anymore? (This last point Gray mentioned on his own blog.)

    Our predicament right now the way I see it, whether you talk stim or HCR is it resembles the student who got an A for effort in all his subjects but didn’t get more than a C on any final exam. Our attempt to fulfill the liberal agenda has been underwhelming as we approach November. I’m not suggesting (as HP alludes to) that anything we did would effect conservatives positively. But the enthusiasm gap between libs and cons this year? THAT we could have influenced.

    HP, your point is well made … if we were gonna make HCR a strong #2 priority then we should have legislated the f*ck out of it. Instead it’s a mish-mash. And that mish-mash time could have been spent winning hearts and minds with serious jobs programs.

  41. For myself, I was not/am not convinced that healthcare was a wise thing to tackle, especially with all the other clean up from the previous administration that was out there.

    Beyond that, I’m just not sure of this health care reform approach. I think health care is just a tough tough issue with no clear “right answers.” I don’t think what we’re currently doing is working out well, nor am I convinced that spending all that money is going to work it out for us.

    They did not convince me (and folk like me) that this is a workable solution, and I’m sympathetic to their cause. If that’s the case, I question the wisdom of “pushing it through,” which is, I think, how it seemed to many people.

    For what it’s worth.

    (One of my big hang-ups on the final HCR was the “requirement” – as I understand it – that you MUST have health care. I’m sympathetic to the Amish, the hermits and others out there who want to make their own calls on how to approach health care. Perhaps allowing folk to “sign off” on receiving any of the benefits of HCR if they’re not paying into it? I dunno, I just didn’t care for that as I understood it.)

  42. Dan said: (One of my big hang-ups on the final HCR was the “requirement” – as I understand it – that you MUST have health care.

    The problem is, you can’t cover pre-existing conditions without the coverage mandate – otherwise people would wait until they were sick to buy coverage.

    The mandate is the one thing people really hate about HCR. Polls show they love being covered for pre-existing conditions. Sadly, they don’t understand the connection.

  43. NO, the thing that many people realy hate is that IT ISN’T THE GOVERNMENT’S BUSINESS TO BE INVOLVED IN MY HEALTH CARE DECISIONS, and sadly, those who would champion a woman’s “Right to choose” to murder their child under the pretense of “privacy”, but would gladly surrender the decision about treatment options that should only be between my doctor and myself don’t seem to understand the major disconnect that they enthusiastically cheer for.

  44. BiW has a point, Hippie. I DO understand the connection with pre-existing conditions. I get the point. And yet, Im not convinced that it is the right way to go. Perhaps it is, I just don’t know. That’s a lot of money we’re talking about.

  45. The problem is, you can’t cover pre-existing conditions without the coverage mandate – otherwise people would wait until they were sick to buy coverage.

    Which is why I wondered out loud about the option of signing away your right to get coverage “free” later if you opt out before.

  46. I like how Libs spout off with NO EVIDENCE what so ever, NONE, that the stimulus was a success because it kept us out of a Depression. Even economists don’t make that claim, and I like to think these guys at least do more then watch Chris Mathews.

    The stim is a failure by Obama’s own standards.

    But oh no, it now SAVED us from the apocalypse. Of course the Bank Bail Out did too.

    Wallstreet and Big Government SAVED us because they took my sons money without asking him. LOL

    Obama and Congress SAVED us but we’re all too stupid to see it!

  47. You mean that after a year and nine months since Obama inherited this mess, he hasn’t been able to straighten it out? Well, there’s “proof” that the man is an incompetent, right??

    We were in the Great Depression for ten years(ish). Such devastating economies don’t recover quickly, seems to me. And, it seems to me, that no one is entirely sure of the “right” answers. If we were sure of that, we’d implement it.

    I find the whining and complaints about Obama’s “failure” to fix Bush’s economy to be thoroughly unconvincing and mostly just partisan BS.

  48. We were in the Great Depression for ten years(ish). Such devastating economies don’t recover quickly, seems to me. And, it seems to me, that no one is entirely sure of the “right” answers. If we were sure of that, we’d implement it.

    And yet much of the rest of the world came out of it much more quickly…hmmmmm. Could it be because they didn’t retard economic growth in the private sector by confiscating wealth and using it to grow the public sector? Could it be because government intervention with market forces prevent the market from correcting itself? Could it be because government cannot regulate and participate in the markets at the same time without discouraging or hindering the competitve market forces necessary to foster economic growth.

    The only “mess” that Obama inheritited was FANNIE and FREDDIE, which is a mess, and a costly one because many of the same people who are now his “advisors” refused to listen to repeated calls from his predecessor to reform the most reckless and dangerous practices they participate in, and to date, they still refuse to engage in these meaningful reforms, while pretending that the largely superficial reforms that they currently pat themselves on the back for have solved a problem.

  49. I don’t know. Could it be? What’s your proof of anything.

    Economics seems to me to be much closer to voodoo than most sciences. I’m not convinced that economic experts know for sure much of anything about what will happen, as a rule. Even less so some random voice on the internets.

  50. Could it be because government cannot regulate and participate in the markets at the same time without discouraging or hindering the competitve market forces necessary to foster economic growth.

    I’ll see your doubt in the ability of gov’t to responsibly and reasonably regulate markets and raise you one pollyanna view that the markets will always work to do good for the most people.

    I don’t believe in the good will of the free market or corporations and I don’t believe in unicorns or fairies.

  51. I don’t believe in the good will of the free market or corporations and I don’t believe in unicorns or fairies.

    It isn’t a matter of believing or not believing – it is simple logic. Altruistic “good will” actions by definition have a higher cost than return. The corporation practicing good will will have a lower profit margin than the corporation that does not – allowing a competitor to lower prices and eventually drive the good guy out of the market.

  52. BiW – I have a legal question for you.

    Dan has suggested an “opt out” option as way way around the personal mandate. Theoretically, someone could sign a waiver at age 21 stating:

    “I choose not to purchase health insurance. I understand I may be unable to purchase insurance in the future if I develop a chronic medical condition in the interim. Further, I understand that I will be financially responsible for the cost of all medical services I receive, and I understand that I will not receive governmental assistance of any kind in paying my medical bills.”

    Assuming that such a waiver could be put into good legal language, would it stand up in court?

  53. Which is not to say that I believe in the good will of gov’t actors, either. We’re all people with our own good and bad, our own agendas and pressures. As such, we’re all flawed.

    It just gets me when some folk seem to doubt that gov’t can do ANY good and yet at the same time, seem to think that the free market, left wholly free, will act to the good of everyone.

  54. The problem with my solution (I know, I’m the one who proposed it) is that we won’t let people suffer the consequences of their actions. If I legally opt out (were that an option) and later on, show up at the hospital with a $1 million sickness without which, I’ll die, most hospitals would treat anyway, right? Or at least SOME hospitals would treat, right?

  55. HP, the best answer to that question is that every state treats waivers differently. Washington has suprised me with the recent trend of actually enforcing waivers that acknowledge that the person signing them did so knowlingly.

    That being the case, I refuse to let government make my medical decisions for me. It simply is none of their business.

  56. The widget factory that can get permission to dump waste out into the local stream (and thereby will make an extra $10 per widget) WILL tend to do so, even if it’s contrary to the good of the community. It’s the bottom line that they are obliged to watch, not toxic waste. The widget factory where the owners don’t live next door are even MORE so inclined to.

    Especially if there are no nosy “do-gooders” reporting the dumping to the media to alert the community.

    That does not show good will towards the world at large or their neighbors.

    Real world example? Coal companies WILL ask for permission and proceed to blow off the tops of the mountains to reach coal, even if it’s contrary to the wishes or the good of the people nearby or others who don’t want to see the mountain top destroyed.

  57. Dan, do the people who don’t want that to happen actually own the real estate?

    Do you prefer methods that have miners going deeper into tunnels where their lives are put at risk?

    Maybe instead of the electricity that the coal produces, we can go back to heating and lighting our homes with whale oil, since solar energy really isn’t practical in some parts of the country, wind turbines kill the birds and create objectionable eyesores for limousine liberals who will scream NIMBY at the placement where they will do the most good, and nuclear energy is something that we are not even allowed to consider.

    The fact is that modern civilization requires energy, and we aren’t going to meet that need with “green energy”, so these things come at a price.

  58. So, you’ll gladly concede that companies will, at least at times, put the bottom line ahead of other people’s interests? (Note: That’s a question, not a claim about your position.)

    If so, you’re right, which is why we need gov’t regulation. We can’t just trust a company or a person to do “the right thing” when they have financial incentive NOT to do so.

    That’s what I’m saying.

    It would be foolish pollyanna-ism to suggest otherwise.

  59. Dan, who says you get to decide what the “right thing” is?

    And why do you trust government controls? They don’t always have everyone’s interests at heart either, and as we’ve seen more recently, their interests seem to be their primary motivators more than anything else.

  60. Did you read what I wrote? Gov’t folk are flawed, too. I’ve been quit clear about that. Sometimes, they, too, can be influenced unduly by outside interests, by bribes, by PACs.

    It’s just we need checks and balances. We don’t trust gov’t alone. We don’t trust corporations alone. We have media watchdogs, consumer watchdogs, people looking out for their own intersests. All of the above.

    And, of the two (gov’t and corporations), at least gov’t entities are starting with the premise of being civil servants.

    Are you foolish enough to trust corporations with no oversight or regulations? If so, that seems to me to be wishful thinking and pollyanna sort of thinking in the extreme.

  61. who says you get to decide what the “right thing” is?

    Not “Me.” WE. We, the people decide what is the right thing. We do this by watching out for our own interests. By investigating misdeeds or possible misdeeds. By electing people to represent our wishes.

    We, the people decide. And we have decided that we NEED Clean Water Acts to protect our common waters. We the people have decided that we NEED Clean Air Act to protect our common air. And, as a result, we have decided that we need some reasonable regulation over individuals and corporations.

    Disagree with that? Take it up with we, the people.

  62. Can you believe that Graychin believes he’s elite? Not what he’s looking for? 😆 😆 😆

    I guess he’s looking for the vastness of space. A chat room where someone talks to himself.

  63. Prevented a Depression? 😆 How about delayed a normal recovery? I am utterly amazed that normally sound people can not figure out that our government running anything is the definition of inefficiency and ineptness. No wonder you guys voted for Obama! You don’t have a lick of sense.

    Gang, you can’t demonize the very people that are the only ones that can bring you out of a slump. You can’t screw business large and small and then expect them to bend over and take it. You can’t create more doubt, more uncertainty, more costly rules and regulations and then expect things to get better. I don’t think if Obama had tried, he could have done a worse job.

    It’s a wonder you libs haven’t burned your own house down by now.

    P.S. to Dan – Log Cabin Republicans aren’t RINOs. They are more than welcome in the party of the real big tent. 😉

  64. Says you. Other GOPers and “true believers” have no use for them. So, how does removing more and more people from your tent work out to be a winning strategy for getting more votes?

  65. It’s a wonder you libs haven’t burned your own house down by now.

    Well if (your type of) conservatives were to burn down their house, it will probably be because you dismantled the fire department because, you know, gov’t can’t do anything right. As you said, “our gov’t running ANYTHING is the definition of inefficiency and ineptness” so I reckon we better get rid of the fire department, police department and the military, right?

    OR, is it the case that gov’t CAN do some things well? Care to backtrack, or are you truly calling for closing our inefficient military, fire depts and police depts?

  66. OR, is it the case that gov’t CAN do some things well? Care to backtrack, or are you truly calling for closing our inefficient military, fire depts and police depts?

    You mean like the tasks that have actually been assigned to them?
    I think they deal well with most of their assigned duties, although delivering the mail in a timely and cost efficient manner seems to escape their capabilities.

  67. So, how does removing more and more people from your tent work out to be a winning strategy for getting more votes?

    I think this a demonstration of why I believe you are an incredibly shallow thinker Dan. A rube, really.

    For every ‘Dan’ we lose, at least three join or rejoin because we’ve removed your ilk from our midst. Most people don’t like the way you think Dan. You turn people off. You have no principles as indicated by your conflicted nature.

    If I’m wrong as you’ll respond, why are they predicting a romp in November? See Dan, you’re really not terribly bright. And last I read, the “Fire Dept.” was local. I had no idea Bongo Obama had taken that over too. 😉

  68. Let me put this bluntly: virtually no one in America gives a damn what Barack Obama says about anything at this point. What could be more predictable, and less interesting, than Obama’s opinion on any given subject? Who wants to contemplate the economic wisdom of a guy who looted the Treasury for a trillion dollars, with less benefit than we could have achieved by stuffing hundred dollar bills into random cereal boxes? Who’s excited to hear about the next plan to convert taxpayer dollars into Democrat campaign funds? Who’s hungry for another hour of tedious excuses about permanently broken markets and the titanic dead hand of George W. Bush? Who wants a lecture on ethical business practices from the titular head of the party that gave us Charlie Rangel and Maxine Waters? What use is another hollow foreign-policy speech from a man who sees no global adversary to rival the menace of Arizona? Even Obama’s supporters don’t hear anything he says any more. There’s nothing left to hear. ~ Dr. Zero 🙂

  69. You honestly have no fucking clue. Do you?

    Dick, I usually admire you for your brevity but I’m not sure what to make of this one. Do you agree that they’re trying to remake the system … are you saying it’s so obvious it didn’t need to be stated?

    Please elaborate just a bit.

  70. Thank God for Dick’s brevity.

    Rutherford – You might be interested to know that Colin Powell agrees completely with your critique of Obama’s “do too much” administration @ #14.

    Gen. Powell doesn’t say exactly what Obama should be doing to create more jobs. And how any program that he might propose would get more than 59 votes in the Senate.

    Unless, of course, extending the Bush-era tax cuts for people making more than $250K per year is the magic key to creating more jobs. THAT just might get 60+ votes in the Senate, even if Obama happened to be in favor of it.

  71. It must be so easy being Greychin. What a simple world he lives in. We all wear those Tee Shirts in his eyes so that he never has to answer what we have gained from President Obama spending more money then all Presidents in U.S. history put together. 4 times more then out of control Bush.

    You’re right dude. The last two years have been a success.

    How dare we question Big Gov. Racists, all of us.

  72. @ #27

    Newt Gingrich said:

    “What if [Obama] is so outside our comprehension, that only if you understand Kenyan, anti-colonial behavior, can you begin to piece together [his actions]?” Gingrich asks. “That is the most accurate, predictive model for his behavior.”

    The left was, and is, up in arms about this comment.

    Chris Coons, the Dem candidate for Delaware, said this:

    “My friends now joke that something about Kenya, maybe the strange diet, or the tropical sun, changed my personality; Africa to them seems a catalytic converter that takes in clean-shaven, clear-thinking Americans and sends back bearded Marxists,”

    Anti-colonial behavior… bearded Marxist… Hmmmmmmm

  73. Except that he followed the bearded Marxist comment with this: “[I]t is only too easy to return from Africa glad to be American and smugly thankful for our wealth and freedom,” added Coons. “Instead, Amherst had taught me to question, so in turn I questioned Amherst, and America.”

    I don’t think there was much humor in that comment…

  74. So, Gorilla, I am really not trying to pick a fight – but is there something wrong with questioning America? You can question your country and still love your country. I might even go so far as to say you don’t really love your country unless you are constantly questioning and re-evaluating. You really can’t participate in a democracy unless you repeatedly examine what that democracy is doing. In some cases, that means finding fault with something your country has done.

  75. HP, I’ve no issue with questioning America- in fact, that’s what is going on right now and what this November will be all about. My point was that I didn’t think his Marxist comment was all that tongue in cheek.

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