Why the Times Square Bomb Was a Bust

Much has been said since last Saturday night about how primitive the bomb was that Faisal Shahzad left in the back of the parked SUV in Times Square. In fact, as Jon Stewart brilliantly pointed out, some newscasters came dangerously close to teaching Shahzad how to do it right. But has it occurred to anyone that perhaps the bomb was not so much amateur but simply not ready yet? Picture this scenario:

[picapp align=”left” wrap=”true” link=”term=shahzad&iid=8700797″ src=”4/9/c/a/Alleged_Times_Square_d27c.JPG?adImageId=12753413&imageId=8700797″ width=”234″ height=”175″ /]

Faisal parks his SUV in Times Square and turns around looking dementedly toward the rear of the vehicle. “I have but a few steps yet to complete the explosive and then I will teach the infidels a thing or two” he says with a devious laugh. As he prepares to put the final touches on his weapon of mass destruction, he gets an irrepressible urge. “Damn I’m thirsty. Mmm, there is a 7-Eleven across the street. Man could I use a Slurpee right now.” So Faisal leaves the SUV running while he runs into the 7-Eleven for his refreshing beverage. By the time he emerges from his fine dining, he sees a mounted policeman across the street looking at his car. “Curses,” says Faisal, “Western civilization has tempted me with their sinful concoction and foiled my plan!” Faisal Shahzad then runs into the darkness of the night hoping never to be found.

But seriously, is it just me or does it seem that al Qaeda blew its intellectual load on 9/11? Tragedy though it was, one cannot deny the genius of that attack. A multi-site, coordinated attack using a trusted means of transportation as a fleet of missiles. Back in the day, comedian Bill Maher caught a lot of grief for saying that. His timing might have sucked but he was right on the money.

Since then we’ve had a couple of notable Three Stooges attempts at terrorism. Richard Reid couldn’t set his shoes on fire to save his life (or to kill others). Umar Abdulmutallab caused mass destruction only to his testicles. And now Mr. Shahzad joins the gang that couldn’t shoot straight. It could be argued that the only reason Fort Hood shooter Nidal Hasan “succeeded” was that he was in a position of trust where people knew him but did not fear him. Had he wandered into a random supermarket and started firing one has to wonder if he wouldn’t have shot himself in the foot first.

We can only hope that the caliber of terrorist recruited by these radical Muslim nutjobs remains this lame. Keep them coming boys, since once we catch them all they do is spill the beans on the rest of you anyway. You’re actually helping our cause by sending us incompetent fools who don’t hold up well under interrogation.

Oh, one more thing. On MSNBC tonight I could have sworn I heard that we know what “training camp” Shahzad attended. Could someone please explain to me why we know the location of terrorist training camps and we have not bombed them to smithereens yet? Rather than kill lots of innocent people with drone attacks aimed at one or two al Qaeda leaders, why don’t we flatten these training camps? OK, let’s give Karzai, Zardari and Saleh two weeks notice. You guys bomb the crap out of the camps or we come in and do it ourselves. While we’re at it, let’s take out Yemeni cleric Anwar al-Awlaki once and for all so he can stop inciting folks to do his dirty work.

Then let’s present the entire story of our victory over terrorism on …. South Park.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

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260 thoughts on “Why the Times Square Bomb Was a Bust

  1. Could someone please explain to me why we know the location of terrorist training camps and we have not bombed them to smithereens yet?

    Because doing so would be waging a “war on terrorism”…an idea scoffed at by the self-appointed intelligensia during the Bush years, and they cannot possible be seen doing another thing that goes against everything they whined, yelled, and screamed about for 8 years.

    (Although I do give Duh Won credit for actually using the Predator drones in Pakistan, even though it must be killing him to do so.)

  2. It was amaturish.

    He parked in a no-parking zone, which calls attention. He didn’t use explosive fertilizer. He didn’t crack open the valves of the propane tanks.

    He started the process and it failed. He didn’t get cotton-mouth. His attempt was not “thwarted” as some have been bragging about today.

    “But seriously, is it just me or does it seem that al Qaeda blew its intellectual load on 9/11?”

    It’s just you. Folks in London and Madrid will disagree.

    You need to realize that al Qaeda is in this for the long haul. They want a global caliphate, and have no problem spending generations to achieve that. In the meantime, they get the West to spend money it doesn’t have, while they exploit failing and failed states, infecting them with their messed-up interpretations of Islam.

    So a string of failed attempts is not failure to al Qaeda. The “failures” still cause us to spend money, and they still make us afraid.

  3. He parked in a no-parking zone, which calls attention. He didn’t use explosive fertilizer. He didn’t crack open the valves of the propane tanks.

    Huck, my hypothetical was pure humor. I don’t doubt in the least that the bozo didn’t know how to add 2 and 2 together to get 4.

    As for the folks who propagate a perverted version of Islam and cost us money (and blood) in the process, I don’t argue with you on that. However if we’re gonna spend money, let’s spend it wisely. (Also, you are right of course about Madrid and London. I had my American blinders on when I made my assessment.)

    Which brings me to BiW’s comment. BiW, the reason I don’t like “war on terror” is that it is sloganeering. You don’t go to “war” on a concept. You find criminals and you either arrest them or kill them That is why I say that every training camp that we can identify should be flattened. And I think this is a much better use of our money than the predator drones which I assume kill 10 innocents for every 1 bad guy.

  4. “And I think this is a much better use of our money than the predator drones which I assume kill 10 innocents for every 1 bad guy.”

    Unless that 1 bad guy is someone important…like a bomb-making instructor.

  5. There’s another theory being floated – one that might have some credence. It was simply a plant, a probe, and experiment to test our reaction and resolve by a low level wannabee whom they were willing to sacrifice. If it worked, great – if not, they learn from experience.

    Not all of these terrorists are idiots as the Khobar Towers and U.S.S. Cole attest.

    What bothers me is that this clown made it on a plane. He was one takeoff down a runway from being in Dubai and lost to the wind. Again, I can’t help but feel we’ve been incredibly fortunate. And good fortune won’t smile on us forever.

  6. Yep, this guy sounds like another member of the Gang That Couldn’t Shoot Straight. We’re very fortunate that the foreign attempts at terrorism since we got sucker-punched on 9/11 have been so amateurish.

    It’s good that foreign terrorists don’t take lessons from our domestic terrorists. Home-grown Tim McVeigh made a much simpler and much more effective IED.

    Rutherford, thank you for the warm welcome yesterday. Pardon my earlier jargon, but a “TW food fight” is my term for an insane string of comments on a tulsaworld.com news story on a hot-button issue like immigration, abortion, or crime in a black neighborhood. Tex Taylor and I have both commented there in the past. I guess that was how he found me and stalked me to my current location.

    You can thank (or cuss) TT for my participation here. Now that I have read some of your blog posts, I think I’ll be participating here frequently. You’ve got a good head on your shoulders. Tex has recently discovered being a troll at my blog too. I just wish he would stay on the subject more and spend less of his limited intellectual capital on personal attacks. Lord knows that the conservative movement’s political capital account in in bankruptcy. Glenn Beck? Sarah Palin?

  7. Curator, a link to al Qaeda is a more rational than Bloomberg’s and the idiots at MSNBC’s claim that it was probably some Tea party member. I love how the MSM had picked-up the administrations agenda of characterizing every threat as coming from their domestic political enemies rather than the country’s true foreign enemies. Obviously, the conclusion that the al Qaeda could be behind a terrorist plot could only come from a dangerous racist and therefore should be mocked.

    Tex, I’ve had the same thought. The failed plots appear to be carried out by the mentally handicapped members of these organizations. Yet they sure do reveal a lot about our reactions and security measures. They could very well be test runs for more sophisticated plots. But of course, as Curator says, since we don’t have proof it should be ignored (unless we are blaming Bush).

  8. Rutherford, did I tell you I’d found you and Wally a friend? Perhaps this will bring back some of the old gang now as the blog had grown stale.

    Old Graychin is more irreligious than Wally and a much more effective cut & paster without original thought, though he and Wally were cutting and pasting from the same blog yesterday. Oops.

    A little background about Graychin’s resentment, as he’s resentful towards a great many things:

    As Graychin blathered on one time about his great humanity and generosity on the Tulsa World (another lefty rag going down the toilet), I mentioned if the humanity included “momma” after he dumped her in some nursing home looking for the benevolent government to pick up the tab. He went ballistic and pouted for weeks.

    Graychin used to frequent the World to get his fragile ego stroked and his doo picked from the rest of the liberal monkeys in Oklahoma. Now to give credit where credit is due, Graychin was the silverback of the lefties. He managed to pick up a few needed friends. Libs are far and few in anymore in Oklahoma except where Graychin resides – mostly “lake people” living off the dole.

  9. I don’t know what bothers me most. The Lefts floating that the incident is a success for them or the Lefts ignorance of reality. Both have multiple layers to them and they are easily seen at play in this thread.
    First for the post and Rutherford. The other if not primary reason Maj. Hasan succeeded was the absolute failure of the system to derail his crazy ass early on.
    As for the AQ “intellectual load”. There is a number of reasons you can somewhat rightfully come to that conclusion.
    In no particular order.
    1. We’re America,distance and positive impact on those that may be used for an attack helps to keep us safe.
    2. Heightened security.
    3. Killing them where they live.
    4.Otherwise engaging them on their home turf.
    5. Loss of international support systems.
    Still all said and done getting killed by a lone wolf still makes one dead.

    @Curator: Given the suspected region Faisal received his training linking him to AQ isn’t a stretch. If you had anything resembling a clue of the intertwining and complex nature of the international jihad movements you’d know that. Bottomline,of the players in that area AQ is the most logical ones to attempt an attack on US soil.
    http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-South-Central/2010/0505/Where-in-Pakistan-did-Faisal-Shahzad-learn-bomb-making-skills

    @Graychin:OMFG!!! “It’s Bush’s Fault”!!! You’re too funny.McVeigh made a real bomb,not a simpler one by any stretch of the imagination. Then there is the 1993 WTC bombing,again not a simple bomb.I think calling 9/11 a “sucker punch” possibly shows something about your character.Are you discounting the hard work of the terrorists?

  10. See what I mean about Bitter Clinger (oops, he changed his name to Tex Taylor) spending more time on personal attacks than on reasonable debate?

    Limited intellectual capital. Very limited.

  11. @Alfie

    Except they didn’t.

    Tehrik-e-Taliban is the group reported. Not al Qaeda.

    But please throw their name around some more so your useful idiots can continue to live in fear.

  12. Tex Taylor invited me here to engage sharp “conservative” minds. He wondered if I was “man enough” to engage here. But I see that he is the same guy here that he is on my blog – nothing but personal attacks from him.

    What a jerk. At least Alfie is worth a response.

    Alfie, what the hell are you talking about? What about 9/11 was not a “sucker punch” We didn’t see it coming and were totally unprepared for it. Even someone as skillful as Muhammad Ali can throw a sucker punch. That doesn’t imply that it was “all Bush’s fault.” Actually it was all Bill Clinton’s fault. At least that is the opinion of most “conservatives” that I encounter. I agree completely with everything that Rutherford said about the 9/11 attack in his third paragraph.

    “Discounting the hard work of the terrorists”? With the specificity of “the” terrorists, you seem to believe that Faisal Klutz was part of a top-down conspiracy. I suspect that there are many poorly-organized and uncontrolled cells out there who think that it’s cool to attack the USA. They send the shoe bomber and the underwear bomber. It’s significant that Faisal was NOT a suicide bomber. That’s a change in the pattern. But I have to agree with you – he seems to have worked very, very hard on his adventure in terrorism. I’m not discounting his hard work at all.

  13. @El Tigre

    Bloomberg didn’t say it was a Tea party member did he? Do you think that after he heard about how the bomb was constructed using propane tanks and fireworks he made a logical conclusion that it may have been a domestic act?

    If Bloomberg though that it was some crazed U.S. extremist who might be responsible, why would your knee jerk reaction think he meant you? Maybe you are deeply offended by the accusations that your people don’t know how to build proper bombs. 😉

  14. Graychin,

    Out of my generous heart, I need to explain something to you. Bitter Clinger was for your benefit – strictly your benefit. That will mean nothing to the people here who will simply know me as Tex.

    Now that you’ve attempted to ingratiate yourself in Rutherford’s good graces by your typical sucking up where required (phony as hell), and I’ve explained why you disdain me which tickles me to no end, should we get down to business so you can exploit my limited capabilities?

    It won’t be quite as easy here, as Rutherford is not the censoring type, but now we can debate without interruption and without that phenomenon of posts simply disappearing on your blog. It’s a miracle! 🙂

  15. @ GC:
    We didn’t see it coming and were totally unprepared for it. Fair is fair I assumed you were someone who would not say that. Still I am perhaps more sensitive to your word use since I don’t think 9/11 was a sucker punch. It was a well thought out and executed punch in our face.I was applying the hard work ethic label to the 9/11 crews not Faisal. I absolutely love that a left of center person is the first I’ve seen give out a squishy minimizing nickname to the latest terrorist in the spirit of “Hot Pants” Bravo.
    I’ll apologize for my assumption but I’m still not feeling you bro.

  16. This incident has demonstrated again what a fiasco the “No Fly List” has been – and still is. Infants have been denied boarding because their names are on the List. Ted Kennedy received hassle on flights because of a “T Kennedy” on the list. Yet the guy the whole world was looking for was able to take his seat.

    Or was it a trick? Did the Feds allow him to board before pulling him off the plane, just to see if he met up with any accomplices on the same flight?

    Naah – the Feds aren’t that smart.

  17. @Curator, the irony of your comment is indeed impressive. I am not a Tea Partier by any stretch. Why did you read that into my comment?

    I will commend the left for building good bombs though. I immdiately excluded them the dteials were released.

    Are you denying that the the adminsitration’s propoganda efforts aren’t united?

  18. Gray,

    TT – do you have anything to add to the discussion besides your personal dislike for me?

    I don’t know. Is that an answer to my question from above? Down to business?

    There have been four jihadist attacks on domestic targets on Obama’s watch starting with the recruiting center in Arkansas, followed by the Fort Hood massacre, Detroit and now Times Square. All obviously linked to Islamic radicals.

    Why do we still have a policy in place to avoid using the word terrorism and how dumb does Michael Bloomberg look at this minute, being Mayor Bloomberg’s prediction was this was probably some “disgruntled” white man with differences on the healthcare bill?

    Is this one supposed to be known as the Health Care Policy Bomber?

  19. Alfie – I understand. A lot of “conservatives” only think in stereotypes and argue with liberals as if we were the straw men that inhabit their skull space. It’s much easier to argue with a stereotype straw man than to address the actual words of the real person.

    Who says that a sucker punch can’t be well-planned and well-executed? The “sucker” is just the guy who was caught blissfully unaware – as the USA was on 9/11.

    As far as “feeling” me – please keep your hands to yourself.

  20. Not to change the subject “R”, but more tidings of joy are leaking out about the new book on Obama’s first year. I guess there is more to the Obama cabinet than first meets the eye.

    First, we have Obama referring to teabaggers. Then we find out during ‘intense’ negotiations as the country goes to hell in a handbasket, my favorite cabinet member Pharaoh Rahm Emanuel leads meetings with with wisdom like this:

    New York magazine had some choice bits about Rahm’s anger at Bo, the Obama’s family dog (“I’m going to kill that fucking dog,” and his yelling to a male staffer: “Take your fucking tampon out and tell me what you have to say.”

    This continues to give me assurances the country is now in the best of hands! 😛

  21. TT – Arguing about the number of terrorist attacks on a president’s watch is pretty pointless. I think even Alfie agrees with me about that, based on our earlier comments.

    Yes, Bloomberg looks like an idiot today, as he so often does. He’s a bookend with Jonah Goldberg: “When the Times Square story first broke there was a part of me that said, ‘Man, I hope it’s not some white militia nutjob.’ When I saw the news this morning that it was a Pakistani, the same small part of me was relieved.”

    Your final sentence is the sort of thing I dislike about you – nothing but partisan nonsense, not even clever.

  22. I’m going to go out on a limb here and take the position that a face to face conversation with Curator or GC is better than a thread. With that said:
    Curator most people think the Pakistan Taliban is operationally incapable of operating outside of the “stans”. On a tribal/outsider line there is also much to be said. All in all linking AQ to this isn’t insane. One could make a point that it is more out of journalist expediency but it isn’t entirely wrong.
    @GC
    As far as “feeling” me – please keep your hands to yourself. I’m hoping this is meant with a smile. If not let me state clearly that I was using the urban definition of the word. Again I hope this was humor and not another leftist attempt to go gay.

  23. Graychin,

    Oh yes, the halo effect. Why I’d almost forgotten your angelic nature Graychin in conjunction with your profound sensitivities.

    Arguing about the number of terrorist attacks on a president’s watch is pretty pointless.

    Let’s see. You and the equally egregious partisan hack named Politico used to make great sport on the Tulsa World board counting the number of days on Obama’s watch about no attacks – ‘day 82’ since under Obama since we’ve haven’t been attacked. YUCK, YUCK!

    Why, you thought that terribly clever. Of course, when that blew up in your face not too many months in, the counting stopped, as do so many of your rational arguments given time.

    I was going to provide to Alfie your standard operating logical fallacy slang to sound intellectual. Alfie, you will see these again and again. Make sure you brush up on them as Graychin will use these at least sixteen times during conversation. Don’t worry about Graychin’s sycophants following. He’s only got one and he’s the village idiot.

    (1) Strawman
    (2) Red Herring
    (3) Projection
    (4) Ad hominem

    You still didn’t answer the real question Graychin, as is your nature. Reflect or ignore?

  24. @GC,cool
    @Curator.et al
    I’ll add my vote to the Bloomie was crazy ballot. Also in the interests of sharing. I’ve taken heat from people pointing out when someone on the Right says something stupid so I think its more than fair to let me call someone out on the Left and take that heat too.
    Dreyfuss at The Nation 3 May and what about the Brewer thing?
    I suppose I could be generous and say Dreyfuss was over-intellectualizing and staying true to his personal meme. Brewers explanation is good but her earlier comment was too natural.
    Was it a talking point or what? Does anyone left of center here think there was some too quick to shoot action?

  25. For the folks who don’t understand the connection between al Qaeda, the Afghan Taliban, and the Pakistani Taliban, here is some suggested reading.

    Taliban rename their group

    “The three leading militant groups calling themselves as Taliban have circulated a single-page Urdu pamphlet in different parts of Waziristan, which confirmed that they had got united according to the wishes of Mujahideen leaders like Mullah Muhammad Omar and Sheikh Osama bin Laden.
    The three leaders Hafiz Gul Bahadar, Baitullah Mehsud and Maulvi Nazir have confirmed the establishment of Shura Ittehadul Mujahideen with certain objectives. The pamphlet said the target of the Shura Ittehadul Mujahideen was to get Mujahideen united at a single platform for Jihad and stop those who were violating and crossing the limits. It said that TTP had decided to shun differences and join hands with one another. It added the TTP supported Mullah Muhammad Omar and Osama bin Laden’s struggle against Obama, Zardari and Karzai administrations.”

    Wives and Offspring of Bin Laden

    “Fatima (1983) married a Saudi fighter at age 12, in 1995. He died in the air attacks on Afghanistan on August 20, 1998. She is remarried to and lives with Mullah Omar. This marriage helped cement the protection UBL gets from the Taliban in Pakistan and Afghanistan.”

    The Accidental Guerrilla

  26. Bloomberg is “on the Left”?

    Perhaps to Bill Maher and Michael Moore’s right – but just barely.

    You actually have to ask that? You’ve got to be kidding?

  27. “If Bloomberg though that it was some crazed U.S. extremist who might be responsible”

    There is no “if” about it. He thought that to the extent that opponents of the health care bill were the only group he specifically mentioned before saying it could be anyone.

  28. Graychin,

    Gawd, I missed this beauty as I was in a hurry.

    Your final sentence is the sort of thing I dislike about you – nothing but partisan nonsense, not even clever.

    You know Graychin. and this is the truth, I actually would debate you without insult because as a lib, like Rutherford you’re generally a worthy opponent, but your blatant double standards are so, well blatant, that you deserve to be bitch slapped. Your entire blog is partisan nonsense, decorated with the most left wing BS on the entire net, yet you have the unmitigated gall to criticize others when they follow your example. Unbelievable.

    Here’s the real reason you don’t like me Graychin. I play your game, and I play it better. I don’t lay down for you like so many I witnessed on the T-World board. Like the proverbial bully on the playground, you simply can’t handle somebody punching back that is your size. And when it hurts, you run to the moderator, or your pack of toadies to help, or take your ball and go home.

    You could get away with the insults at T-World when you’re dealing with the uneducated, young or uninformed, or delete and edit posts on your own blog making it appear you have the upper hand, but the minute you find yourself in real battle and you don’t control the environment, with one who is perfectly capable of being every bit as nasty and “clever” as you are in the adversarial role, then you play victim.

    *** VOMIT ***

    When you can remove the log from your own eye, I’ll promise to stick exclusive with fact. Until then, you need to either lighten up or toughen up.

    The real choice is yours.

  29. “You could get away with the insults at T-World when you’re dealing with the uneducated, young or uninformed, or delete and edit posts on your own blog making it appear you have the upper hand, but the minute you find yourself in real battle and you don’t control the environment, with one who is perfectly capable of being every bit as nasty and “clever” as you are in the adversarial role, then you play victim.”

    Straight from the democratic party playbook.

  30. There is something somewhat funny to me personally about the attempted Times Square bombing, especially considering people like Racial Madcow of bleak future MSNBC fame, have been attempting to tie domestic terrorists, Timothy McVeigh wannabees as Curator calls them, to Tea Partiers.

    Anybody noticed every wannabee terrorist act of late, to a person, have all had acute BDS? 😈

    Anybody want to place odds on how Faisal Shahzad voted in the last election? Bet he wasn’t pulling the straight Republican ticket.

    —————————

    Rutherford, I actually took a few minutes to watch your girlfriend Racial last night on MSNBC. In a five minute span, she/he went from demonizing BP of shenanigans (Obama was top recipient of BP cash over past 20 years :lol:), to how America must stop off-shore drilling because it’s not risk free (Saul Alinsky tactics), to how nauseating it was to pay $4.00 per gallon two summers ago because of Darth Cheney.

    I wonder what Racial will think, assuming they put a stop to offshore drilling, when gas goes to $6.00 a gallon or more this summer? It’s already creeping up past $3.00 a gallon as we speak.

    I thought this woman was supposed to be smart?

  31. Huck,

    Straight from the democratic party playbook.

    Absolutely. What’s ironic is old Gray and I are from the reddest of red states, not 60 miles apart, so we both know the state well.

    When Graychin steps out of the neighborhood, for every one person yelling “Yes, We Can!”, two more are screaming “Where’s the Teleprompter Messiah?”

    But in that small circle where Graychin lives, all the way down the eastern border of Oklahoma and Arkansas, you’ve got a plurality of some of the most inbred, ignorant, poverty stricken, radical, straight-line Dim voters on the planet. And apparently, they all congregate on the Tulsa World board.

    If you were to read the editorials and corresponding comments at the T-World board, you would swear Oklahoma is somewhere left of Vermont. And yet, not one county out of seventy-seven in the last election went for Duh One! That’s how popular Obama is where Graychin is from. 🙂

  32. Yes, Bloomberg’s on the left.

    And it’s not even a “don’t rush to judgment” commentary. It was that it is “probably” some domestic group (and, Curator, the patently OBVIOUS allusion to the Tea Party). The dangerous right wing. . .

  33. I thought this woman was supposed to be smart? She’s a woman???

    😈

    Hey, give me some credit! I did preface “it” with the she/he!!

    It sounds like a girl but looks like a bulldog, dyke, otter, wombat man. Only it’s girlfriend knows for sure. MSNBC desperately needs some of the FOX babes.

    Who you want to look at when they speak? Racial Madcow or Megan Kelly? Bertha Lewis or Julie Banderas? Some NARAL hag or Laurie Dhue?

    Not a terribly difficult choice for me.

  34. “If Bloomberg though that it was some crazed U.S. extremist who might be responsible”

    There is no “if” about it.

    Yes… given the material in making the bomb and the FBI report that they were looking for a middle aged white guy in the video.

    What is so hard to understand about this? Should I draw you a picture?

    What is so comical in the Right’s knee jerk reaction to this is the hero of the day who spotted the SUV smoking is …wait for it…. a Muslim immigrant named Aliou Niasse.

    Maybe we should have started forced deportation of all Muslims like the right-wing Freedom Federation wanted. Then “real” Americans would not have to bite their lip and call Niasse a hero. Probably doing it with fingers crossed behind their backs.

  35. You get zero credit for bashing someone for being gay, TT. Not funny, and definitely not clever. You’ll have to do better than that.

    I agree that Fox has the hottest babes. If that’s the primary factor in your choice of a source for your information, then it explains a lot.

  36. Curator please do draw a picture but don’t use your crayons.

    “I didn’t see the car pull up or notice the driver because I was busy with customers. But when I looked up I saw that smoke appeared to be coming from the car. This would have been around 6.30pm.

    “I thought I should call 911, but my English is not very good and I had no credit left on my phone, so I walked over to Lance, who has the T-shirt stall next to mine, and told him. He said we shouldn’t call 911. Immediately he alerted a police officer near by,”

    1. seems like his English is fine. 2. seems like it was a team effort. 3. none of the 4 involved are heroes.

  37. “Yes… given the material in making the bomb…”

    Like the propane tanks that were also used in the London bombing?

    “…and the FBI report that they were looking for a middle aged white guy in the video.”

    Which ignored the report by the seller of the vehicle, who did not describe the buyer as white, but as looking Arab or Mexican.

    Make sure you include those facts in your picture.

    “What is so comical in the Right’s knee jerk reaction to this is the hero of the day who spotted the SUV smoking is …wait for it…. a Muslim immigrant named Aliou Niasse. ”

    Which knee-jerk reactions? The one from NY mayor who speculated this was someone pissed off over ObamaCare, or the one from NY mayor who naturally assumes we are all going to beat up Muslims over this?

    After the knee-jerk reactions aimed at the right by the left and by the media since this began, you have some big balls to come here crying about anyone’s knee-jerk reactions.

    Freedom Federation does not represent the views of all of us on the right any more than the American Communist Party represents the views of all on the left.

    But if you are content with engaging in gross stereotyping in an attempt to strengthen your weak argument, knock yourself out.

  38. Next you’ll start citing the DHS report as justification for first assuming this was a right-wing extremist.

  39. You get zero credit for bashing someone for being gay, TT. Not funny, and definitely not clever. You’ll have to do better than that.

    More graphic? I neither seek or require your approval Graychin, and if I ever receive any approval from you, I might begin to question where I went wrong. You and I are diametrically opposed concerning anything of importance, and it will remain that way, because I’m not changing to make my opinions more palatable to somebody I have absolutely zero respect. 😉

    Graychin, again you’ll just have to toughen up if I find being homosexual a clear mental disorder. I can be friendly and even respectful which I have attempted to do throughout my life working with many, and still not lend my vocal approval to the lifestyle. I mean trust me, if I could beam you into space in a zillion little pieces, and beam back a gay Republican, my hand would be on the transport stick as we speak. However, if the word dyke disturbs you, I’ll substitute the word lesbian to help mend your wretched soul.

    I agree that Fox has the hottest babes. If that’s the primary factor in your choice of a source for your information, then it explains a lot.

    Well, it’s a nice bonus. As much grief as the “Girls from FOX News” get, I have yet to listen to one that wasn’t competent.

    However, if every woman on FOX looked like Helen Thomas, I’d still be watching FOX for the content, perhaps listening with my eyes closed. I know that The Drudge Report, Rush Limbaugh and AM radio, FOX News, and the Wall Street Journal are an abomination to you, like salt to the Leftist slugs (a bigger bonus), but this is where I get a great majority of my news now. That should come as no surprise.

    The internet has recently developed some additional valuable sources, including many Libertarian sites I read for enjoyment and mostly in agreement.

    What you need to push for Graychin is a new Fairness Doctrine so you can continue to shit on the 1st Amendment like you do on your blog. It’s your only hope. Otherwise, on the level playing field, you and your feckless ilk are getting your collective “progressive” asses kicked now in every forum. This ain’t the T-World. 😉

    Libs simply can not win without deceit and buying votes. Even the Greek wooden columns with empty platitudes from the “Yes We Can!” Chicago Messiah aren’t cutting it anymore.

  40. Rutherford, a paradox.

    I understand the communists and jackboots in Obama’s cabinet are in mass panic about the oil spill – the fact there is rumblings of this being Obama’s Katrina and the shills are running around with their hair on fire, praying to I guess Allah or Gaia about Obama’s predicament.

    Ironically, I don’t really fault Obama for this, even understanding that maritime affairs traditionally are within the purview of federal jurisdiction.

    Should we be turning up the heat in retrospect about good job FEMA?

    Reason #1,615 I find Republicans far more fair in political dealings. I haven’t seen too many accusations raking Obama over the coals, like I witnessed with George Bush and Katrina.

  41. Yeah that stupid DHS report. Doesn’t seem so iffy now does it?

    Jim David Adkisson – killed two at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church. (Motivated by a desire to kill liberals and Democrats)
    Anti-abortion activist Scott Roeder murders Dr. Tiller.
    James W. von Brunn – shot up the Holocaust Museum ranting about non whites.
    Richard Poplawski kills three cops over fear of Obama taking his guns.
    Arrested members of militia group Hutaree – wanted to kill cops.
    Anti-IRS terrorist Joe Stack- flies plane into IRS building killing one.

  42. Hey! David Obey is retiring. He said the reason he stuck around this long was his chronic case of BDS. 😆 😆 😆 I’ll bet.

    Obey was going to get beat and running like scared cat with his tail on fire. He couldn’t take the defeat.

  43. If you guys are waiting for the Stink Beards to one day employ James Bond gadgetry, I think you are in for a long wait.

    These people wipe their asses with their hands.

    If 9/11 was foiled we’d all be laughing at them, trying to take down the financial epicenter of the world with box cutters and all.

    These people are medieval barbarians. They will always come off as stooges when they fail, brilliantly resourceful when they succeed.

    Although I got a good chuckle reading the new Hawkish Rutherford’s post today.

    Can the police carpet bomb?

  44. Curator, all of these have something in common:

    James W. von Brunn – shot up the Holocaust Museum ranting about non whites.
    Richard Poplawski kills three cops over fear of Obama taking his guns.
    Arrested members of militia group Hutaree – wanted to kill cops.
    Anti-IRS terrorist Joe Stack- flies plane into IRS building killing one.

    A severe case of BDS. Not to mention the jackboots in the federal government look like they pulled a Waco in the arrest of the militia group Hutaree. The loons probably will kill somebody now in retribution, like McVeigh. Hope you weren’t one of them.

    As far as the other two, can’t defend Jim David Adkisson, other than a fact he was a sick puppy with a record. Fry him.

    Tiller the Baby Killer was a butcher, murdered by a man sentenced to death. Tiller now resides with history’s butchers in hell. Consider him a new neighbor. 😉

  45. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/36783.html

    Drudge Report running wild with this.

    Apparently no politician on planet earth has EVER received more loot from BP then Obama. EVER!

    I have a feeling this sore might turn into a boil the size of Texas. Sadly, this metaphor can be applied to both the President and the ocean.

    Can you imagine if Obama was Bush right now????

  46. These people wipe their asses with their hands ->

    Which prompted Pres. Bomba to bow down and kiss their rings.

    What was it my girls used to say? Ewwwwwwww…. 👿

  47. Rabbit,

    I saw that. Bongo is obviously proving to be corrupt as hell.

    What’s ironic is two of Bongo’s biggest donors have blown up in Bongo’s face in one week (1) GS, (2) BP. There might prove to be justice this side of heaven yet if we can nail Freddie and Fannie – you know these rotten bastards are greasing the skids.

    Believe me, Bongo’s jackboots and speech writers are working overtime right now to save his ass. I expect BP (which I own :sad:) and Goldman to end up the same place Bongo’s grandmother did – under the bus, later this week. Probably on Friday afternoon when this crooked administration always releases the bad news. It’s become a weekly occurrence.

  48. Since I’m new around here, I would appreciate the opinions of some other commenters. At comment #44 I needled Tex Taylor for his gay “jokes” in comment #42. In response, TT flamed me at some length in comment #48. (Looks like I really pushed his button, doesn’t it?)

    My question: Are anti-gay slurs cool around here, or do you think that they might be a bit over the line? If anti-gay slurs are cool, is it OK if I make racial slurs? What if I just avoid the “n-word” – would racial slurs be OK then?

    Just wondering.

  49. Graychin, I saw that you had arrived and waited until you provided your normal tacit insults. You’re slipping?

    As far as pushing my buttons? You haven’t figured this out yet, have you? You’re now on a board where I can rip you a new and enlarged rectum – something that has been long overdue to put your arrogant and lame ass in its proper place. I baited you here for as long as you last and I am going to have a good time at your expense. Gladiator, I salute you.

    Here’s a heads up doofus. The blog owner is black. Rip away with the racial slurs genius. 😆

  50. Hey Curator, or Rutherford. I just read an interesting question. Copied verbatim. I would be curious to how either of you would respond to the question at the bottom:

    It is fascinating to see how the authorities and the major media outlets avoid the words “Islam” and “Muslim” in connection to the failed Times Square bombing. In both this piece in Time and in this piece in the New York Times the word “Islam” is only used in the name of the city of Islamabad in Pakistan [ed. – Islam a bad! Ironic, hey?]

    The Times uses the word “Muslim” once: “At his news conference, Mr. Bloomberg warned against any backlash against Pakistanis or Muslims in New York, saying, ‘We will not tolerate any bias.’”

    The authorities — Holder, Napolitano, New York Police Commissioner Kelly — also avoided the words Islam and Muslim at their press conference. They spoke about “terrorism” but didn’t define the term.

    So what kind of terrorist is Faisal Shahzad if he cannot be called a Muslim or an Islamic terrorist?

    What should we call Shahzad, and why are we afraid to call him a Muslim extremist at the very least? What purpose does this serve?

  51. Rutherford, I have to thank you for putting up the twit feed. I find much of it priceless. Like this gem:

    @KeithOlbermann Limbaugh has no quality control. Shame he can’t be sued for malpractice

    Maybe Keef can print him a shirt that says “Malpracticist! on it.

  52. If you guys spent a little more time reading, you’d see that the trigger he used was very advanced. Had it been wired correctly, the bomb squad would not have been able to disarm it. There words, not mine.

    AQ hasn’t claimed this guy, the Pakistan Taliban has, which are close allies to AQ.

    Gang who can’t shoot straight? You must be speaking of DHS: Ft. Hood, Christmas Day and now May 1st. The only thing keeping things from blowing up is them, not the DHS…

    Curator, are you so desperate to validate this alternative reality in your head that you’ve got to grasp at straws? Mr. IRS was a lefty, not a conservative. The clue was the Karl Marx quotes…

    Fact, the only ideology with more terrorist operations and blood on their hands than Islam, is liberalism. Anarchists, socialists and communists terror organizations far, far out number any other group. Read a book dumb ass…

    R, not quite sure what you want to say with this post. Tell me, where does the buck stop at on this?

  53. Cowboy @ #58:

    Got it. Slurs against gays are cool, but racial slurs are not – but only because the blog owner is African-American.

    Right. That makes a lot of sense.

    Seriously – I’d like an opinion from someone with a trace of good sense about my question @ #57. I already knew what the cowboy thought. Ad nauseam.

  54. Got it. Slurs against gays are cool, but racial slurs are not – but only because the blog owner is African-American. Right. That makes a lot of sense.

    Aren’t you and your Yellow village idiot at your blog incredibly fond of the term “teabaggers.” In fact, I think you’ve used that term in a title at your blog, but I’m too lazy to look. That sounds like a homosexual slur to me Graychin. Or have I simply mistaken that for a term of endearment from you dear progressives, your President, and your TV commentators as you giggle amongst yourselves like school children?

    Of course, latent racism and homophobia from the Left are tolerated, even joked about in the right company on the Left as I have witnessed many a time – as long as it’s done in secret. That little insidious secret that lilly whitey on the lake front doesn’t want anyone to know about, hey Gray? That place you’ve chosen residency with your profound sensitivity in good, old Jay, OK? Wasn’t too many years ago they had a sign making it abundantly clear blacks were to be out of town after dark. Been there many a time Gray – highway 10 a pretty drive.

    I don’t recall too many gays, or too many blacks welcome in that town you live. Did I miss something in my past while on Grand Lake Graychin?

    Why I’m sure Graychin, over there in lilly white Eucha, OK, of which you reside, gays and blacks more than welcome to run roughshod through that lake home you’re so proud? Why I bet you’ve welcomed NAMBLA into the lake home – perhaps with you as chairman. Our new resident, loving angel.

    You’re phony as hell Graychin. The double standards are still legendary with Jackoff the Gray.

  55. Graychin, context is the key around here. We’re just a bunch of folks sitting on our virtual barstools at the local virtual bar talking about politics and current events. We play rough and we get dirty.

  56. Rutherford,

    I forgot to compliment you.

    Then let’s present the entire story of our victory over terrorism on …. South Park.

    If we ever, ever get the chance, and I don’t think we will at least in our lifetimes, that is an excellent idea. Tip of the cap for that suggestion.

  57. Thanks, HF.

    I’m still not sure what “context” made TT’s attempts at humor acceptable to the general public here, even with us all on virtual barstools consuming a cool and refreshing amber liquid. His post struck me as adolescent and mean, with no redeeming context, cleverness or even funniness. But like I said, I’m new here. Maybe it’s an inside joke of some kind.

    Stony silence from everyone else. OK………

  58. Another question: Is this board open to members of the female persuasion?

    If so, why aren’t there any here? Did I miss something?

    Maybe comments like #42 make them feel unwelcome – or uncomfortable.

    Rutherford, please don’t take offense at my observations. Most of your commenters bring a lot to the discussion and know how to disagree intelligently. (I made a new friend today on the opposite end of the spectrum – Alfie.) And I think that your own posts are outstanding. But even the healthiest tree could stand some pruning.

  59. Perhaps this will bring back some of the old gang now as the blog had grown stale.

    Ooooo Tex, now that hurt. Who exactly from the “old gang” is missing? Rabbit is back and Elric will never return. Otherwise, we still get the occasional visit from Gorilla, BiW and more often Alfie and Huck.

    I am at the beginning of today’s series of comments so I won’t defend Graychin as I am pretty sure he defends himself in comments I’ve yet to read.

    But Tex, really …. you rank on the dude’s mother? That’s below the belt even for you.

  60. Are we talking about all criminals, or only the ones you don’t like, R?

    Now why on Earth BiW would I ever want harm to come to the criminals that I like? 😉 Be logical man!!!

  61. Jackoff the Gray,

    Unlike the T-World where you ran to the moderator when you got your nose tweaked, that doesn’t work here. Soft-peddling your initial horseshit is for sissies, as you don’t even know the people here. Kissing ass doesn’t fly either.

    Your futile attempts at banishment are just that – futile. This ain’t Mike Jones you’re now dealing with – the blog owner is actually educated and not some blowhard with a pen. However, on normal days Rutherford is badly outnumbered – perhaps in some perverse way, I’ve done Rutherford a favor by inviting you here. The odds are now even.

    You can now shit can the soft act and revert back to progressive propagandist and playground bully acgt – that is, if you’ve got the nerve. And the limp-wristed, girlie routine Graychin is putrid. If you want mixed company, go back and suck up to the hags on the T-World board you befriended. Whaaaaa….

    You can take this to the bank. Stick around and in a matter of weeks, Alfie & Co. will understand what I know about you now. Though Alfie the gentleman, he doesn’t sing your pathetic tune either. The self-absorbed, unchallenged and delusional propaganda you’ve sold before doesn’t work here. Expect your stale MSNBC talking points to be challenged.

    People that reside here aren’t like the dimwits you’ve dealt with before Graychin, and you’re stupid cliches, barking seals, and the Conservative bashing that you no longer control will be dealt with accordingly.

    Note, the “progressives” here aren’t pussies like the crowd you posted with before. And after dealing with tattle tales who throw up their skirt like you’re predictably apt to do, that has been a refreshing scenario.

    Welcome to the new world pal and if harsh language isn’t your thing, there’s always your unattended blog to revert to. You can always suckle Bruce Plant too.

  62. (1) Strawman
    (2) Red Herring
    (3) Projection
    (4) Ad hominem

    Mmmm, as I recall Tex, one of your fav bloggers, General Chen, used to replace people’s avatars if they committed acts falling under 1, 2, 3 or 4. Or have you forgotten the good old days?

  63. She’s a woman???

    C’mon BiW … the best you can do now is lesbo jokes?

    Then again, one of the entry criteria for any woman being loved by Republican men is that they must be supremely f*ckable. Witness Palin, Bachmann (who does nothing for me) and Sue Lowden, with the cutesy face behind which no discernible brain exists.

  64. Does this Graychin cat ever do anything other than posture and display OUTRAGE!!! over perceived slights to people?

    Tex, you promised he’d be entertaining. If I wanted sanctimonius handwringing and preaching of the PC gospel, I could go to the Huff Po.

  65. Graychin, context is the key around here. We’re just a bunch of folks sitting on our virtual barstools at the local virtual bar talking about politics and current events. We play rough and we get dirty.

    No, this is standing around drinking beers in front of R’s garage.

    The local virtual bar is the Hostages. It has men, women, and Rosetta.

  66. Rutherford,

    I’ll explain the history. This isn’t a shot at some elderly woman. Lord only knows she’s experienced enough hardship with a son of this caliber. This is directed straight at Graychin’s fat head, who loves to bring his mother into conversation when convenient.

    Graychin uses his own mother often as example of state ward to further the nanny state, including arguments about furthering entitlements. Really putrid stuff. You’ll find Graychin moves from asshole (see his cute quip to Gorilla) to victim from one sentence to the next. He’s either bi-polar or medicated. Gorilla will rip him when he returns, and then you’ll see Graychin whine.

    Though Graychin tells me he is rich and an incredibly successful business man, it sure does seem he needs the helping hand of the benevolent state government. No telling the hyperbole that has been extended.

    If I sound unduly harsh for a time, you’ll have to bear with me. But this guy is a conniving POS who had people banned from the T-World board when they objected to his brilliance – for a time, it worked. This is the ultimate in blog nanny. You’ll grow to love him. 🙂

  67. “R”,

    I think I just read a comment where Tex calls someone else a bully. OK, the world really is coming to an end.

    😆 Okay, I stand corrected. Twins…but not conjoined.

  68. I haven’t seen too many accusations raking Obama over the coals, like I witnessed with George Bush and Katrina.

    On the contrary, BROWNIE the very dude who screwed up Katrina has been very vocal against Obama. He appeared on Fox vomiting up some drivel about Obama using the crisis to his advantage. Then on MSNBC’s Hardball, he conflated opposition to oil with opposition to coal. Chris called him a lunatic. ROTFL

    As I tweeted when I saw it, our society has really lost its way. People in disgrace need to disappear, or simply opine on sports and the weather. Anyone (including MSNBC) giving “heckofajob Brownie” a forum should be ashamed of themselves.

  69. BiC,

    Does this Graychin cat ever do anything other than posture and display OUTRAGE!!! over perceived slights to people?

    Tex, you promised he’d be entertaining. If I wanted sanctimonius handwringing and preaching of the PC gospel, I could go to the Huff Po.

    Well, he wasn’t quite this pitiful when I used to “debate” with him. I thought he might prove to be the old Graychin mare when he puffed like a toad on the T-World board.

    Old Gray is a poser, no doubt. Blog nanny, definitely. PuffHo parrot – absolutely. But he’s a worthy adversary when he’s not whining. Besides, I owed Rutherford a favor. He’s put up with enough crap from me to last a lifetime.

  70. Although I got a good chuckle reading the new Hawkish Rutherford’s post today.

    Not so new Rabbit. While you were away, to the horror of my comrade Curator, I fully supported the notion that Obama took out a hit on that Yemeni cleric.

    If we’re gonna be at war, let’s do it right. First let’s identify the real enemy (ehhhh, wasn’t Iraq) and then take them out, or capture them if possible.

    So yes, if our intelligence gives us 99% confidence that we have located a terrorist training camp, then either attack it or bomb it.

    What I heard today is that the camp is located in a tribal area controlled by the Taliban so we’d have to pinpoint the camp site to avoid killing too many innocents. I’m not a big fan of collateral damage, One reason why I’m squeamish about the drones.

  71. OH, come on “R”. That’s one man – there hasn’t been the faux outrage over Obama’s mishandling of the spill, nobody has accused Obama hating on shrimp dredgers, fishermen, or Cajuns, Hollywood isn’t paddling in leaky rowboats never leaving the curb, and the natives aren’t being accused of cannibalism.

    I did get a kick out of watching them dance, mind you. If I am reading this right, the lackeys in the White House are worried. I am not sure why, but in their politically correct world, you can’t let a crisis go to waste and they’ve got their fingers to the wind out the Obama bedroom tonight trying to gauge which way to go.

    As usual, there’s a huge dearth of leadership with the boat traveling in circles, but America has come to expect that from this regime. 😉

  72. “No, this is standing around drinking beers in front of R’s garage.

    The local virtual bar is the Hostages. It has men, women, and Rosetta.”

    That works, too. And makes me want to investigate the Hostages.

  73. Ahhh the thread takes another absurd turn with the donations discussion. Fellas, puhleeeze. Politicians get money from all sorts, some savory some unsavory. The money buys loyalty sometimes, and sometimes not.

    There was an implication (I think from Rabbit) that Obama will not get any heat for the BP contribs. I can’t speak for Obama, but Mary Landrieu is getting plenty of heat from the lib media for all the money she’s pocketed from BP. So it isn’t a hands-off-the-liberal kinda thing right now.

  74. Rutherford,

    Then again, one of the entry criteria for any woman being loved by Republican men is that they must be supremely f*ckable

    tsk tsk… Graychin will be accusing you too of sexism. 😈

    Now here I’ve gone out and attempted to bring a lefty to the board, and you’re already screwing things up. Not that I necessarily disagree with your statement, but remember one fact.

    Graychin is the book of virtue – unless you voted for George Bush.

  75. “If we’re gonna be at war, let’s do it right. First let’s identify the real enemy ”

    Let us know when you folks are ready to begin with that, ok?

  76. Are anti-gay slurs cool around here

    Graychin, you should know the rule by now. If any lib gets underneath their skin sufficiently, then any slur will do.

    Oh and there is also a mathematical relationship to remember here. The smarter the lib, the worse the slurs get. I consider Rachel Maddow one of the best spoken most intelligent commentators out there. Her precision bullets piss off folks like BiW and Tex to no end. And since they can’t argue the facts against her, they call her a dyke.

    Even Alfie, one of the more analytical folks around here would not let me post a Maddow video to his web site. Correct me, Alfie if I am remembering this wrong.

    You should know for full disclosure Gray, that your blog host is black. So the gentlemen here, including Tex, have for he most part, refrained from anti-black pejoratives. Of course, they are dependent on the Fed tit, lazy, and criminal …. but at least for the time being, not the N word. 😉

  77. Tex, the reticence of the media to highlight the Muslim angle in this and other attacks is fear of setting fire to a powder keg.

    We believe in freedom of religion in this country. If the media starts to come down on Muslims, even when stating the facts, it flies in the face of our values and it risks enabling nutjobs who will go after law abiding Muslims.

    I personally am getting sick and tired of Muslim leaders not vocally speaking out against the recent violence. But I understand the media’s concern about inflaming this stuff.

    By the way, the preceding paragraph in no way gives comfort to Franklin Graham who has revealed himself to be rather a dimwit. My favorite …. on MSNBC he actually said “the Internet tells us that the Koran says ….” ROTFLMAO!!!! The Internet???? He’s a biblical scholar and he has never even cracked open the Koran itself to see what other religions have to say about stuff? He reads the same bullsh*t that Elric reads!!

    I won’t even say Graham is a hater, He just ain’t very bright.

  78. G, Reid, Abdulmutallab and Shahzad absolutely represent the gang who couldn’t shoot straight.

    Now if you wanna talk about lapses in our security that’s another story. Clearly, as someone else has already stated in this thread, the no fly list is a total joke,

    Still they “got their man” within 52 hours using old fashioned police work, Not too shabby.

  79. “He even answered me once and urged me to get a colonoscopy next year when I turn 50”

    Olby being Olby, my guess is that comment actually had something to do with your head and your ass.

  80. Gray, LOL about “the healthiest tree”. Late last year I actually did prune an Islam obsessed commenter, known as Elric (or Elric66 to be precise). In a fit of charity, I reinstated him on Xmas eve but he was sufficiently pissed to not come back. It’s the only time I banned anyone even temporarily … and in all honesty it wasn’t over any “infraction” or ideological difference … it was just my ego acting up which is why I relented. Sadly his ass-hattery got lots of support from the gang here. However, Rabbit occasionally knocked him on his ass as did Huck.

    As for women, every now and then a blogger named Sensico shows up to do battle. She is at a small disadvantage as she is a college student without the years and battle scars to inflict the kind of damage needed in a debate with BiW, etal. But I give her credit for trying now and then. Other than Curator and a blogger named Hippie Prof, Sensico is the only liberal (before you) to dare enter this fight club.

  81. Rutherford, is this parody?

    I consider Rachel Maddow one of the best spoken most intelligent commentators out there. Her precision bullets piss off folks like BiW and Tex to no end. And since they can’t argue the facts against her, they call her a dyke.

    You must have missed the content of my post, because I shredded Racial’s ignorance last night about the petroleum industry. Her commentary was beyond dumb. This “woman” was completely clueless – laughably clueless. I actually watched five minutes. While she may well spoken, Racial’s words are void (like Obama). Inanity of “Yes, We Can!” type trope.

    I call Racial a dyke because she is one. She’s a talking head but not a terribly informed one. Last night, Racial actually belittled her own argument not two minutes before trying to bust the chops of the BP. I watched at midnight again just to make sure I hadn’t misunderstood. No, she was actually that deranged. Do you really think she is that talented? Her ratings are in the toilet, as she’s lost 50% of her audience since Bomba’s big win.

    By the way, it seems MSNBC has got some terrible internal fighting between Ogremann and the rest of the staff. Even the Libs hate Queef. You been following this?

  82. Olby being Olby, my guess is that comment actually had something to do with your head and your ass.

    Now Huck, you know full well “Olby” doesn’t think I have my head up my ass. Hell, if Olbermann just read one of my most popular pieces (45K hits on Best of the Blogs), we’d be BFF!

  83. The rumors of Keith’s MSNBC troubles are just fodder for Fox junkies methinks.

    While I am here, let me pipe in on this oil thing real fast.

    Folks saying offshore drilling must stop because of this disaster remind me of the folks who say climate change doesn’t exist whenever it snows.

    The fact is, from what I understand, oil rigs usually are safe,. I don’t think we’ve had a problem like this since 1968. So no, this spill, however horrific simply means we need to fix what went wrong. For the time being, we need oil. One disaster doesn’t change that IMHO.

    Another night getting to bed at 2am …. yes I read every friggin’ comment! Thanks for playing. See ya tomorrow. 🙂

  84. Tex, the reticence of the media to highlight the Muslim angle in this and other attacks is fear of setting fire to a powder keg.

    You mean cowardice, mixed with fear of losing the Muslim vote? You’re not fooling anyone.

    We believe in freedom of religion in this country.

    I think you really believe freedom from religion. Admit it, Muslims scare your crowd to death. Again, cowardice.

    If the media starts to come down on Muslims, even when stating the facts, it flies in the face of our values and it risks enabling nutjobs who will go after law abiding Muslims.

    Rutherford, do I dare invoke an old Chen axiom – the red herring? You clowns not only “come down” on Christians, you actually “look up” to condemn Christians in any capacity. Combination of hypocrisy and cowardice, as you realize there’s no fear of retribution.

    I personally am getting sick and tired of Muslim leaders not vocally speaking out against the recent violence. But I understand the media’s concern about inflaming this stuff.

    Inflaming them so they continue to bloc vote for Bongo.

    By the way, the preceding paragraph in no way gives comfort to Franklin Graham who has revealed himself to be rather a dimwit.

    No, I wouldn’t give comfort either as Franklin Graham dares speak the truth about Islam. It should be apparent that Islam is evil – but if 9/11 and fourteen thousand other acts of terrorism the last eight years by radical Muslims haven’t convinced you, who am I to try? Perhaps your wife in a burka and you crawling to Mecca one day might – if they don’t lop your head first might convince you. If so, I think you’ll find this comparison you like to make with Jews, Christians, and Muslims being one and the same won’t sound so profound leaving your lips.

    He’s a biblical scholar and he has never even cracked open the Koran itself to see what other religions have to say about stuff? He reads the same bullsh*t that Elric reads!!

    Graham doesn’t claim to be a biblical scholar. He doesn’t even pastor a church Rutherford. Graham isn’t a theologian as much as an Evangelist and good Samaritan – a living example of discipleship in action. Let’s see, what has Graham’s organization done recently? How about this?

    Samaritan’s Purse not only funded mission partners but also began to develop its own large-scale relief projects: • Providing medical care in the midst of conflicts in Somalia in 1993, Rwanda in 1994, Sudan since 1997, Kosovo in 1999, Afghanistan in 2002, and Iraq in 2003. • Rebuilding or repairing thousands of houses following Hurricane Mitch in 1998, the El Salvador earthquakes in 2002, the Indian Ocean tsunami in 2004, and Hurricane Katrina in 2005. • Chartering emergency airlifts to Indonesia and Pakistan in 2005, North Korea in 2007, and Myanmar and China in 2008. • Distributing food to hundreds of thousands of displaced people in Uganda and Darfur.

    In addition, how about this? • Operation Christmas Child is a ‘global Christmas gift exchange’ project operated by Samaritan’s Purse. Each November it opens thousands of locations, typically at churches or schools, to collect shoeboxes filled with toys, school supplies, personal items, and other gifts. These are then distributed as Christmas gifts to millions of children each year. Gift boxes are collected in North America, Europe, and Australia. From 1993 through 2008, some 69 million gift boxes have been handed out in more than 130 countries.

    You continue to astound me Rutherford. One minute, you’re rather informed; the next minute you’re mocking men who initiate action like this. Makes no sense, but then you never really did to me. I would think you might know better. I don’t think you can call this kind of work hate and do so with a straight face.

    Can you head me to a progressive organization that does this kind of work Rutherford?

    Rutherford, when it comes to religion, you ought to leave it alone as your always leading with your ass. Even Densico does better.

  85. R,

    Your propaganda is getting old. Anyone who has actually studied the Katrina issue, even slightly, knows that it was not Brown and FEMA that screwed it up. The blame rests solely on the shoulders of Mr. Chocolate himself and the former Gov, Blanco.

    We did a case study on this and the emergency action plan for New Orleans puts about 85% of the responsibility of action on the local and state authorities. FEMA doesn’t move people, it brings a fat wallet to help the locals move people.

    Anyone who continues to blame FEMA for Katrina is clearly playing politics from the bottom of the deck.

    However, the FED clearly has ownership of the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico.

  86. The term “tea-bagger” is like uttering the “n” word, some say. Though he aspires to promote civility, evidence has surfaced that President Obama has added “tea-bagger” to his public lexicon, though it’s considered a cheap and tawdry insult by “tea party” activists. Watchdogs at Americans for Tax Reform (ATR) barked when they saw the proof, tucked in a sneak peak of Newsweek columnist Jonathan Alter’s new book, “The Promise: President Obama, Year One,” to be released May 18. Indeed, it appears the president joined certain partisan critics and the liberal media, and took the tea-bag plunge.

    “This remark is the equivalent of using the ‘n’ word. It shows contempt for middle America, expressed knowingly, contemptuously, on purpose, and with a smirk. It is indefensible to use this word. The president knows what it means, and his people know what it means. The public thought we reached a new low of incivility during the Clinton administration. Well, the Obama administration has just outdone them,” ATR president Grover Norquist tells Inside the Beltway.
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/may/05/strong-brew/

  87. As for the AZ law, I haven’t heard a single logical- or factual for that matter- comment from any of you on the left.

    Why’s the law bad? Have any of you actually read what the law does and doesn’t do?

  88. Not so new Rabbit. While you were away, to the horror of my comrade Curator, I fully supported the notion that Obama took out a hit on that Yemeni cleric.

    By all means lets kill an American citizen without any due process in a court of law, but allow terrorist to buy guns and explosives within the USA. After all we can’t trample on the 2nd Amendment rights of suspected terrorist to keep and bear arms against us.

  89. Ape – you’re kidding, right?

    What would Stalin’s position have been on a Russian version of the ACLU? Wars of choice? Capital punishment?

    I rest my case.

  90. If you guys spent a little more time reading, you’d see that the trigger he used was very advanced.

    It was cheap alarm clocks connected to a can filled with fireworks apparently intended to detonate gas cans and propane tanks. You call this advanced?

    Please don’t read. You are making us all dumber for it.

    The M88’s he used are low grade designed to be loud but not combustible.

  91. Ape – the law in AZ gives legal sanction to racial profiling, although it is politically correct enough to warn the cops not to do it. (Wink, wink.) And it’s probably unconstitutional – at least most if not all legal scholars think so, although most knuckle-draggers disagree with them.

    Other than that, the new AZ law is just peachy.

    Instead of checking people’s papers for breathing while brown, why not focus on the scumbags who HIRE illegals? Within 12 months we could establish a functioning national database of SSN’s of people who are here legally. Anyone hiring someone who doesn’t check out on the database gets a $50,000 fine for each infraction, and the CEO (not the payroll clerk) gets 30 days in jail.

    Illegals come to the US for no reason other than to get work and earn some money. When the jobs for illegals dry up because of hiring restrictions that we actually enforce, they will stop coming here and will even start going home, wherever that is.

    Some say that this would be a terrible hardship on businesses. Too damn bad. Of course the Chamber of Commerce would be pissed off because some businesses would lose their access to cheap illegal labor – but who gives a poop about them? Some jobs might get difficult to fill, but then there are lots of Americans out there looking for work. Maybe those unfilled jobs might need to offer higher pay to get filled (gasp!)

    Yes, solving the problem of illegal immigration might mean that the cost of your strawberries would go up. And it might cost more to stay in a hotel where that Mexican maid who doesn’t speak English and is working very, very cheap would be replaced by a higher-paid legal immigrant or even a citizen.

    So if you object to no longer benefiting from cheap illegal labor, then you are part of the problem, aren’t you?

  92. Ape – so it hurts Rev. Moon’s feelings when we libs use the term “teabagger.” Gee, I feel bad about that.

    (Sheesh – a copy / paste from a sensitive soul at the Washington times. How much more persuasive can an argument get?)

    And as previously pointed out, the teabaggers were the ones who applied the term to themselves first – out of sheer ignorance, no doubt. (Yes, I’ve noticed some ignorant teabaggers out there. Shocking, I know.)

    And it’s not like “conservatives” don’t occasionally use derogatory language about liberals. Even on this very blog!

  93. My home builder used to listen to a “Christian” radio station while he worked on our house. It was one 15-minute preacher program after another. As loco and monotonous as most of them were (“increase your faith, send money, tune in tomorrow”), the one preacher who stood out for me was Franklin Graham for – his angry tone and hateful message.

    I wish I could remember the details after a decade, but if the man is a representative of the Christian message then I don’t want anything to do with Christianity. (Of course he isn’t representative of Christianity at all as shown by his well-documented remarks on Islam. He has hijacked Christianity.)

  94. Rutherford, thanks for the explanation. I think I’m starting to get the lay of the land around here.

    The odd dynamic here is that although Rutherford writes exceptionally good stuff, his regular commenters are almost exclusively hostile to him. After puzzling over that odd fact for a while, I think that the nastier “conservatives” here like the blog because they get to flame liberals in the ugliest manner they can think of without getting booted. Not many liberal blogs would be that tolerant. I know that I’m not. I had to boot a guy after numerous warnings recently for repeated use of the word “fag.” (Maybe he just suffers from an impulse control disorder.)

    Anyway, the “conservatives” get to spew their bile here with relative impunity, and I suspect that it chases away many lefties who would prefer some intelligent conversation. It may also discourage some of the womenfolk who might otherwise participate here. They may not appreciate comments like the ones about which women anchors are hot and which ones are ugly. And I can’t imagine the women I know appreciating the hateful comments about Rachel Maddow very much – but maybe I hang with a better class of women than some of you.

  95. I hear that Catholic Charities does some pretty good work. The Church is fairly progressive on most political issues besides abortion and gay rights. They do have some fairly strange hangups about sexual matters, but other than that the Church is pretty darn liberal. (No offense intended, but that’s my opinion.)

    You don’t have to shout like Franklin Graham about hellfire and damnation for Muslims in order to do good works. But it helps if you have more money flowing in from that daily 15-minute radio show than you know what to do with.

  96. @Alfie
    1. seems like his English is fine. 2. seems like it was a team effort. 3. none of the 4 involved are heroes.

    Couldn’t bring yourself to bite your lip? Typical. I would imagine you would want to repay Mr Niasse for his virtuous conduct by being visited by the ICE.

  97. @graychin

    I find it odd that in 2006, 23 Republican Senators signed on to an immigration reform bill, including the party leader. The next year a more conservative bill only garnered the support of 12 Senate Republicans. This year a more conservative bill including a biometric ID card to establish eligibility for employment gets zero support from Republicans.

    What’s happened to the Republican Party? Over the last four years have they determined to just write off the Latino vote for good?

  98. Jackoff the Gray,

    the one preacher who stood out for me was Franklin Graham for – his angry tone and hateful message.

    I wish I could remember the details after a decade, but if the man is a representative of the Christian message then I don’t want anything to do with Christianity. (Of course he isn’t representative of Christianity at all as shown by his well-documented remarks on Islam. He has hijacked Christianity.)

    You’re even more ignorant of Christianity than you are of politics, when you’re not lying thru your teeth. Now, I no longer wonder if you’re a liar – you are. There isn’t a Christian worth his or her salt who doesn’t know Islam isn’t evil. Of course, you’re completely ignorant of the Bible as I remember, so you wouldn’t recognize it’s not just people – God calls it wicked. Take it up with him

    Franklin Graham is an Evangelist, who is the head of Samaritan’s Purse since 1979. You wouldn’t have heard him preaching hell fire and brimstone, because he doesn’t preach dummy. As usual, you’re full of shit.

    But you know, something did occur to me with the pejoratives, which I now feel free to use anywhere, anytime since you won’t cut the nonsense either about teabags.

    I believe your old, lard ass might have a boyfriend sharing the sack. Have you stepped out yet over there in Eucha? 😆

  99. Ahhh Graychin has finally fulfilled his promise here on the RL blog. A refreshing blast of liberal fresh air!

    For starters, Gray has pulled back the curtain on the ugly secret why we don’t get real immigration reform. Employers don’t want it. So, we bitch about the brown guy while the mostly white guys exploit him and essentially engage in extortion (“oh you don’t like making below minimum wage? Well I can make a couple of phone calls to help you go back home.”)

    Calling Marxists, Communists and Stalinists equivalent to liberals is so patently preposterous that it makes the defenders of this notion look plain silly. It deserves a good laugh and then move-on. Hardly worth debating.

    Tex, if all it takes to be an evangelist is to pull stuff out of your ass without actually knowing anything, then I’ll set up my ministry tomorrow. God knows I need the money. I expect a man of God, like Graham, who wants to save me, to at least have the curiosity to have some first hand knowledge of religions. Forget Islam … you’re telling me the man doesn’t even need to know his Bible.

    I’m curious Tex. Why do you defend Graham based on the good works of his church but condemn Jeremiah Wright whose church has also done many good works?

    By the way, re-read my comment. I didn’t call Graham a hater. I called him stupid.

  100. Curator: good point.

    What has happened to the Republican Party? Barack Obama, that’s what. Whatever Obama is for, they’re against. Even if they were for it before they were against it.

    They have determined to write off not only the Latino vote, but also to drive out every last “moderate” from their exclusive little club of aging Southern white boys.

  101. Curator, believe me, my preference is for the Yemeni cleric to be arrested, convicted and executed. But every now and then I have to listen to the cowboy in me. This man is the worst of the worst. An American traitor who is too cowardly to strap the bomb to his own gonads.

    I’ll amend my statement so as not to betray my fellow liberals. Find him, arrest him, convict him and execute him …. but if you end up executing him first, I won’t lose too much sleep over it. 😉

  102. Regarding #116, Graychin shoots and scores! The crowd roars! 😀

    OK, I’m gone until tonight. I’ve already violated my no comments when I’m trying to make money rule. 😦

  103. Tex, if all it takes to be an evangelist is to pull stuff out of your ass without actually knowing anything, then I’ll set up my ministry tomorrow.

    Rutherford, sad to say – that IS all it takes to be an evangelist. Many of them, if not most, are shockingly ignorant about the Bible. And almost everything else, actually.

    Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that all evangelists are ignorant charlatans with nothing behind them but but a good line of blarney, but unfortunately the profession seems to have more than its share of such.

    And why do the ones who are so obsessed with “saving” gays get caught up in jaw-dropping hypocrisy like this:

    http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2010-05-06/news/christian-right-leader-george-rekers-takes-vacation-with-rent-boy/

  104. Rutherford,

    Would you please show me where (1) Franklin Graham has personally benefited from his works in Africa, South America, or any other 3rd world cesspool? Compare and contrast to Rev. Jeremiah Wright who moved to the ‘burbs with the white men that supposedly enslaved his impoverished congregants; (2) If you can find for me where Franklin Graham has ever discriminated against race, creed or color in his ministries, which by the way to compare and contrast again, to Jeremiah Wright who thrives and become a rich man, where Franklin Graham insists on living modestly.

    Graychin is a religious bigot, but most of the bigotry is directed at Christians – and yet Graychin is completely ignorant of the entire subject which I will happily prove one day. This is standard liberal fare which you still haven’t figured out.

    For Graham simply telling the truth about Islam, he’s demonized. And yet the very man Graychin demonizes, the organization he represents doesn’t discriminate in the any Muslim nation about providing food, care and gifts. I gave you some of the stats Rutherford and you conveniently ignored them.

    I’m still curious for you bleeding hearts that supposedly love “all men” (except Christians) to show me your works. Can anyone direct me liberal charitable organizations not affiliated with the public dole?

  105. Graychin,

    Alinsky rule #7 – find one example and demonize the entire organization. Sometimes, works pretty well – I’ve got to admit.

    Many of them, if not most, are shockingly ignorant about the Bible

    At best, this is pot calling kettle black. You’re shockingly ignorant of the Bible Graychin, so how would you be qualified to judge?

    I remind you Graychin. No matter how hypocritical these charlatans may be, what ever personal demons they are trying to exercise, from gay ministers to pedophile priests, they are homosexuals like you.

    Should you not consider these brothers in arms? This is your congregation, no matter how egregious their sins, even if they don’t vote with you politically?

  106. You should know for full disclosure Gray, that your blog host is black. So the gentlemen here, including Tex, have for he most part, refrained from anti-black pejoratives. Of course, they are dependent on the Fed tit, lazy, and criminal …. but at least for the time being, not the N word.

    Smiley face or not, you know I’ve never said anything like that.

  107. They have determined to write off not only the Latino vote, but also to drive out every last “moderate” from their exclusive little club of aging Southern white boys.

    Aging southern white boys of Massachusetts? Fortunately, I don’t even need to argue, as the game will be played in November and the bogus charges put to rest of old Southern White Boys. 🙂

    I’m a patient man.

  108. You should know for full disclosure Gray, that your blog host is black. So the gentlemen here, including Tex, have for he most part, refrained from anti-black pejoratives. Of course, they are dependent on the Fed tit, lazy, and criminal …. but at least for the time being, not the N word.

    Yeah, I’d like you to back that charge up too Rutherford. Can you do that for us?

  109. Regarding #116, Graychin shoots and scores! The crowd roars!

    Surely you jest. Yet another repetition of the now oft-repeted Lefty meme that ‘Conservatism is dead/dying’ is some how insightful?

    Its like a girl criticizng the Boy Scouts, a luddite criticizing particle physics, or an epicurian criticzing a farmer. But I guess when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

  110. Hey BiC,

    Have you ever been able to determine why Rutherford thinks identity politics of the Democratic party not utterly corrosive? I mean, just look at Europe in general and the former Yugoslavia in particular to see where it ultimately leads, which is exactly where the Democratic party and more particularly Obama are leading them.

    The Republican Party it is never going to win by imitating the strengths of the Democratic Party, especially the dependence on government and multi-culturalism. Seems nonsensical strategy to me to copy the ideas of utter failure.

    I’ve often wondered why Republicans don’t set up business boot camps in the ghetto and other poor communities. Show up with a business plan, or even just an idea for a business, and we will show you what you have to do to succeed, including busting your behind 16 hours a day. Success alone would begin to change the culture over time.

    Republicans still haven’t figured out you’re dealing with people with a lifetime of leftist indoctrination, from the culture to the schools. If I were instructing the political party leaders, I would start with the demands of school vouchers – popular in both the black and Latino populace.

  111. Conservatism isn’t dying, and it never will. But the Republican Party is committing electoral suicide. When approval rates drop for Democrats they don’t rise for Republicans. Americans don’t like what their government is (and is not) doing, but Republicans have nothing to offer except obstruction.

    Republican pols vote in lockstep, and opinions that vary from Mitch McConnell / John Boner orthodoxy will get you excommunicated from their flock. Charlie Crist could tell you something about that. Scotty Brown is going to go from GOP hero to zero in record time if he doesn’t start to toe the line.

    You should learn to tell the difference between Republicanism and conservative-ism. The two aren’t the same thing at all. Not even close.

  112. Oh, one last thing before I leave Rutherford – you keep using the word “preacher”. I used the word “pastor” in my response to you, and I used it carefully.

    In Protestant vernacular, the pastor is head of a “church.”

  113. As you will soon learn here, most of your adversaries here don’t give a hoot about some party. We debate philosophy. Slam the GOP all you want – they deserve it.

    But if you are to believe polls, there are approximately twice as many Conservatives as there are liberals. And right now, your minority philosophy, led by Barack Obama, is proving to be a dismal failure – both domestic and foreign. Even the Jewish population, as close to a monolithic voting bloc as there is this side of blacks, is turning against the Barack model.

    It remains to be seen if Barack can buy enough votes with promises he can’t keep to win in 2012. Either way, as was shown in health care, there are no longer any moderate or centrist Democrats.

    Interesting times indeed. I’ve seen this story before, and the end result for liberalism wasn’t pretty. Unfortunately, we didn’t put a stake through the heart when we had the chance.

  114. I’m a fan of Charlie Crist, and of former Pennsylvania governor and former Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge. He is a decorated Vietnam veteran, who has cabinet-level political experience and offers security credentials without controversy. I viable candidate for President. Why won’t he ever win a GOP primary? The conservatism and ideological purity test of the modern GOP has made this and impossibility.

    Electoral suicide…. yes I second that.

  115. Almost any pastor is commonly referred to informally as “the preacher” – because he preaches to the congregation every Sunday. You might have explained your terms a bit better since you chose them so precisely, eh?

    “Pastor” is the Latin word for “shepherd,” the one who tends his flock of sheep.

    True, “pastor” is the term used for a church’s sole minister or senior minister, but he is not necessarily the “head” of a church. (Or do you mean head of a congregation – a “church” can be world-wide with many congregations, e.g. the Roman Catholic Church.) Whether he is the “head” of his church depends on which denomination you are discussing. In some denominations (Baptist for example) the “pastor” is hired (“called”) by the congregation and serves them at their pleasure. In other denominations, the denomination sends the clerics and owns the real estate, so those “pastors” might accurately be called the “head” of their churches – subject to the dictates of a bishop or other higher temporal authority.

    There are many, many forms of organized Christianity (not to mention other faiths), so it’s always annoying but never surprising when someone gets jumped on for “incorrect” religious terminology.

  116. Curator,

    Is that the same Charlie Crist, who just three weeks ago in front of a national televised audience, announced three times that he was a Republican and would be until the end, even if beat in the Republican primary? But as the deadline neared and realizing he was 25 points behind in the polls to Marco Rubio, suddenly had a change of opinion hours before deadline and became an Independent?

    I can see with those qualities of character and truth, you would be a huge Charlie Crist fan. 😉

    I could be wrong, but in a matter of two years, I predict Charlie Crist will become like a fart in the wind – the stench apparent at the outset, but afterward forgotten.

    Even if I am wrong, and even if the Conservative and Libertarian party takes a backward step for a time, it is absolutely necessary to remove men like Charlie Crist from our midst.

    Lord knows the Republican party has had enough posers to contend with the last 15 years. Time for them to be dragged from the darkness and into the light – exposed for the frauds they are.

  117. “Most of your adversaries here don’t give a hoot about some party…”.

    But the exchange between Curator and me (#113 + #116) specifically about the state of The Republican Party got generalized by blackiswhite into the “now oft-repeted Lefty meme that ‘Conservatism is dead/dying’.”

    The facts on the ground seem to contradict you. And I have no adversaries here except perhaps you, TT, if you choose to make it so.

  118. By the way, Tex – when you invited me here you said that the participants here would tear me a new one, and you wondered if I was “man enough” to engage them. Well, here I am, and I’m enjoying myself a lot. I plan to stick around, for the time being anyway. I have encountered some blunt criticism, but nothing that made me feel like I was dropping out of the sky in flames or circling the drain. And no one except you has made any personal attacks or even committed a felonious violation of the rules of argumentation (see #72).

    In short, I’ve been made to feel welcome here, even by all of “my adversaries” – except you who invited me here in the first place.

    I just wonder if your credibility here (such as it is) hasn’t been damaged by your MANY windy, angry rants directed at me personally in just the past TWO days. Not that I worry much about your credibility, but… think about it.

  119. @ GC # 57 which reads
    My question: Are anti-gay slurs cool around here, or do you think that they might be a bit over the line? If anti-gay slurs are cool, is it OK if I make racial slurs? What if I just avoid the “n-word” – would racial slurs be OK then?
    Comments are a reflection of those making them but are deserving to be viewed with the full picture.

    @ Rutherford #87
    Your memory isn’t completely clear. I have reservations to say the least about Maddow but none of them have anything to do with her sexual orientation. I find her as toxic as Limbaugh,Beck or Olbermann with the added bite in my ass of her and her fans insisting she is a journalist. Her partisanship and lies forfeits her journalist credentials. As talking head she is no better than the rest. She may find a nugget of truth now and then but what she does with it puts her in the toilet in my book.

    GC #106
    You really haven’t read the law have you? The law simply enforces federal law. I will also repeat for the umpteenth time that the majority of the law targets coyotes,employers and assorted other enablers of the criminal enterprise that is illegal immigration.

    Curator 112
    No lip biting required. Please keep up your mindless prattle though about ICE etc. You make the case for your opposition every time you tickle the keyboard.

    In General re the GOP
    Throwing away the Latino vote? That’s funny. in many places the GOP has candidates that are Latino and clearly enjoy support from people of all tones. I think what bothers you lefties is that the GOP wants people that want to stand as Americans,not hyphenated Americans.

  120. There are many, many forms of organized Christianity (not to mention other faiths), so it’s always annoying but never surprising when someone gets jumped on for “incorrect” religious terminology..

    Again Graychin, you speak from which you know nothing, because Baptists are not a “denomination.”

    What is surprising is your level of ignorance, being at the lake you’re surrounded by Southern Baptists. Perhaps you should occasionally open your ears with respect to “incorrect” religious terminology? Especially, considering you the unbeliever are required to debate the topic often, as Baptists consider your lifestyle an abomination?

    So let me help you out.

    Baptists do not consider themselves a denomination. For instance, The Southern Baptist Convention does not ordain ministers, assign staff to churches, levy contributions to denominational causes, dictate literature and calendar, or assign persons to churches according to place of residence. These are local church matters.

    In fact Graychin, Baptists make it a point to be wary of interdenominational councils. How could you be so ignorant, being the Baptists the largest “religious” group in the state of Oklahoma?

    Would you like me to correct you too about the use of pastor versus preacher in the Baptist Church, or should I continue to stomp on your lack of subject matter expertise?

  121. I stand corrected. My own church belongs to an “association” and not a “denomination,” and I am well aware of the distinction.

    Don’t bother lecturing me about Baptists. I’m really not interested.

    No comment your use of “church” or “head” in equally incorrect ways?

  122. Curator 133
    That’s a pretty good comment. I’m curious,did you hold any reservations of Ridge back in the Bush era? I ask because many on the Left made charges against him not unlike those made against Palin now a days.
    As for Crist I think I can say this is the first time I’ve ever seen anything from you that supports your previous statements that you’ve supported Republicans.Questionx2… Can you support Crist even if it means he hurts Meeks? If Crist were to win (unlikely as it is) who do you think he’d caucus with?

  123. Graychin, you flatter yourself as is your habit.

    And I have no adversaries here except perhaps you, TT, if you choose to make it so.

    Not only do you not understand the definition of denomination, you don’t understand the definition of adversary either. I’ll help you out again.

    ADVERSARY = someone who offers opposition.

    I believe you will find several here if you stick around long enough that are by definition your adversary. You may not recognize that fact as I don’t find you particularly deep, but nonetheless, they are still here.

    Now, I need to set the record straight. I invited you here because I wanted a forum to debate you where you didn’t control the process. No deleting, censoring, editing, no running for cover, no blog moderating, no grandstanding if somebody uses the word FAG. The teams are now even.

    Your blog is an echo chamber of three or four libs in a cluster fuck with dissenting views are deleted if they don’t fit your flavor. The T-World much the same.

    I actually enjoy throwing rocks at your inanity which is exactly why I do hope you stay and did invite you here. Many of the “adversarial” (catch that) mode have left because the traffic had slowed.

    The fact that you and I can now debate openly was the intent. If you think you’ve proven your manhood, that’s good. I’m happy for you.

  124. I’m not a big Charlie Crist fan, but compared to most Republicans he isn’t all that bad. I watch in amazement as the Florida Republican faithful throws him under the bus in favor of someone who couldn’t possibly win a two-way race.

    Who would Crist caucus with if elected? Good question, and Crist ain’t saying. So at this point voting for Crist would be like a box of chocolates – you never know what you’re gonna get. I’m betting that he will caucus with whoever is in the majority – not that the Republicans would make him feel especially welcome in their caucus.

    A better question: if (God forbid) there are exactly 50 Republicans in the Senate Republican caucus next year, who would Joe Lieberman caucus with?

  125. No comment your use of “church” or “head” in equally incorrect ways?

    and

    Don’t bother lecturing me about Baptists. I’m really not interested.

    Make up your mind. Should we proceed, because your definition of pastor, preacher, head, and congregation was also incorrect.

    This is too easy. Move to a subject you know something about Graychin. It bores me to explain you the fool.

    Like Rutherford, you are far more effective at your political talking points. Unlike Rutherford, you have no sense of humor.

  126. Tex, I am not in “opposition” to anyone here. I guess you and I just see this activity differently. I don’t expect to convince anyone of anything, or to “win” anything that matters – like an election. Electoral opponents are “adversaries” – serving members of Congress shouldn’t be. I see no reason why people discussing politics and religion have to be adversaries, or in opposition to each other. Maybe we can all learn something if you would stop downing out the discussion with your awful noise.

    But if you like it that way, then go ahead and have fun your way and I’ll do it my way.

  127. Curator,

    Concerning Charlie Crist, I don’t think he will win the Senate Seat, and I still think Rubio will be the representative. I understand the Democratic candidate is horridly weak – and that from Democrats.

    However, I said that Scott Brown would never win either – so I don’t attempt to pick winners, mainly because the process so corrupted, I don’t trust the elections anymore. That’s how cynical I’ve become about politics.

    To answer your question, I would assume Joe Lieberman would still consider himself far more Democrat than Republican. While Lieberman may have burned bridges, he is nonetheless a Liberal first and foremost.

  128. Like I said earlier: There are many, many forms of organized Christianity (not to mention other faiths), so it’s always annoying but never surprising when someone gets jumped on for “incorrect” religious terminology.

  129. No one predicted that Scott Brown would win. I think that the largest factor in his victory was his clever choice of a lazy and inept opponent.

  130. Graychin the Sanctimonious,

    Maybe we can all learn something if you would stop downing out the discussion with your awful noise.

    I think you meant drowning the discussion, but point taken.

    I’ve made it perfectly clear I find you a rank propagandist, a liar, politically dishonest and pretentious, a coward, and as BiC noted, a woeful hand wringer.

    I’ll see if I can “tone down” the discussion to more suit your piety and tastes. Every ego requires an Id. Besides, what is the point of debate where everyone agrees. Right Graychin?

  131. I think that the largest factor in his victory was his clever choice of a lazy and inept opponent.

    IMO, an incredibly weak excuse to mask the disgust of Obama’s policies and a clear sign of denial. I believe the line was “41st” vote to stop ObamaCare, met with thunderous applause, and the fact our real concern not about waterboarding mass murderers – also met with thunderous applause.

    Only time will tell, but you might find you were the proverbial ostrich Graychin joined by throngs of ostriches. Of course, every Democrats best hope is for the incompetent Republican party to pull defeat from the jaws of victory.

    As the party rights itself and returns to the roots of Conservatism, there is also the good chance that seats will be lost on account – a danger but necessary step to return to long-term prominence. But it will happen.

    Obama’s policies are clearly not sustainable, and even he now recognizes it. Perhaps he can pull a Clinton and reinvent himself – but unlike Clinton, Obama an idealogue in the statist mode.

  132. Being a Bay Stater I have to say Brown ran an excellent election.Staying out in the cold greeting union folks that were there to root for Coakley after Coakley walked inside….awesome.Just way too many layers to that scene.
    As for my Crist questions I look forward to other answers before offering mine

  133. Aw shucks, Tex. You’re just saying all that because I’m usually right, and because you’re too dim to think of any response other than attacking me personally. It’s all you’ve got. If you had anything else, surely you would use it. Right? Go back and read your stuff from the last couple of days and maybe you’ll see what I mean. Maybe. Everyone else can see it.

    Yes, I meant drowning out the discussion. Thank you for the correction. A spell-checker will catch misspellings but not malapropisms. At least I can count on you to proofread what I write, even if you don’t understand it.

    You’re a hoot, that’s what you are!

  134. …greeting union folks that were there to root for Coakley after Coakley walked inside…

    Alfie – I still think that Coakley was “a lazy and inept opponent.” Brown’s tactics seem fairly obvious. Coakley’s seem…. well, lazy and inept.

    And why would Bay Staters oppose Obamacare? They already had nearly the same thing with Romneycare. But they were for Romneycare before they were against Obamacare.

    (Oops – betcha I just opened another can of worms!)

  135. Tex – before you point it out, I see that I forgot to close my Italics tag in #153 after the word “drowning.” Thought I’d save you the trouble.

    Edit features are fantastic, aren’t they?

  136. @GC I was hoping you’d be able to concede a little regards Brown. Oh well.
    As far as RomneyCare. It should probably not be called that since he opposed the mandate and that is just one of the things my fellow Bay Staters have experience with. Rising costs,bloated budget issues,fraud….

  137. The facts on the ground seem to contradict you. And I have no adversaries here except perhaps you, TT, if you choose to make it so.

    You have yet to make a remark that contains any substance, and as the legacy media has discovered, there is no profit in battling vapors.

  138. Graychin,

    You’re just saying all that because I’m usually right, and because you’re too dim to think of any response other than attacking me personally. It’s all you’ve got. If you had anything else, surely you would use it. Right?

    I just figured it out. Dementia with a healthy dose of megalomania and paranoia?

    141. graychin | May 6, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    I stand corrected. My own church belongs to an “association” and not a “denomination,” and I am well aware of the distinction.

    No, apparently you weren’t well aware of the distinction or you wouldn’t have needed to be corrected. I’ll try to help you compensate for the memory loss.

    Any medical reasons as to why? Low T-4 count perhaps?

  139. Alfie, I certainly concede that Brown was an attractive candidate who ran a skillful campaign. He’s got movie-star good looks, an attractive family, he speaks well. What more could voters ask for? Substance? Get real!

    But in spite of Brown’s many campaign assets, I still believe that a competent Democrat would have beaten him – especially in freaking MASSACHUSETTS. Will you concede that Coakley’s candidacy was, to put it as kindly as possible, lazy and inept?

    As for what coulda woulda shoulda happened – that’s why debating politics is so much fun.

    And like I said earlier, I look for Brown to transition very rapidly from Republican hero to Republican zero if he doesn’t start to toe the Party line. So far he has shown a few (gasp!) liberal tendencies. He will need to keep that up if he hopes to get re-elected in 2012 (yes, 2012!), but if he varies too far from Republican orthodoxy he will get Charlie-Christed right out of the Republican nomination.

  140. Does anybody here calling themselves Conservative, or even partly Conservative, see the you humor and irony in the charges of being booted or “outed” of the Republican party, by the party that has all but crucified Joe Lieberman for not “toeing the line?”

  141. In fact, Brown has been a better Democrat so far than Joe Lieberman!

    How’s that Graychin? Appeared to me Joe “toed the line” when he voted for the unpopular disaster known as BombaCare?

    Or is that question to be defined as “you’re too dim to think of any response other than attacking me personally” too?

    A little clarification here…

  142. Graychin,

    Will it hurt your feelings or give you the shakes if I ask how your new European model you proposed for adoption by the United States worked out this week?

    See this…

    How’s that work for you? The inevitable conclusion of the nanny state when the coffers run dry. All Hail Obama!

  143. Rutherford has a rule for himself – no commenting during working hours.

    I’m retired, so of course I have nothing else better to do than hanging out here, but not even I can stay here all day 24/7.

    So the question hangs in the air – what the hell does Tex Taylor do for a living? Whatever it is, it clearly doesn’t involve work or anything that otherwise occupies his time.

  144. @ GC #160 (Rutherford 160+ comments,unknown # of hits and you don’t even have to work that hard at it-you dog)

    I appreciate your view being from OK. Coakley handily beat a brood of fellow Dems and assumed she was the heir apparent. Operationally she was inept in doing that but she was the best out of the D bunch and lost fair and square via D and I votes going to Brown.
    Obviously I disagree about your interpretation of Browns voting record. I think the national GOP will embrace and ignore him on an as needed basis. I think that will actually help him.
    Charlie Crist entered a primary and was losing. The GOP didn’t shaft him although I can accept he feels a little scorned for sure.
    Anyway I’ve decided I’m done with this thread so I’ll chime in on the other Crist points.
    Rubio wins but if Crist pulls a miracle he caucuses with the majority and plays the “I’m for FL card” much like he disingenuously is doing already with the teachers unions and Seminoles.
    Toodles……

  145. I would happily boot Joe Lieberman out of the Senate Democratic caucus, but it hasn’t happened. So to exactly what irony do you refer? His continued presence there is proof that Democrats are more tolerant of their recalcitrant members than Republicans. And then there are the Blue Dogs.

    Lieberman campaigned for McCain for president. So if he wants to act like a martyr for being “crucified” by the party whose voters denied him its nomination, then so be it. He’s a Republican in every way except his registration.

    Lieberman voted for Obamacare only after he and Nelson of Nebraska wrung big concessions favoring their major constituents. Big Insurance dominates both their states’ politics. Fortunately or unfortunately, it had nothing to do with party discipline. Democratic party discipline is an oxymoron. If either had been subject to Republican party discipline the outcome would have been different. Democrats let their members wander freely. Republicans had damn well better stay on the reservation.

  146. Lieberman has zero chance of being re-elected in Connecticut. After his current term expires, look for him to become a VERY highly paid “consultant” to someone or something in the insurance industry. For services rendered.

    Kinda like the way Billy Tauzin went to work as CEO of PHRMA after giving the drug companies that sweet deal in Medicare Part D.

  147. @ Alfie #142

    I’m curious,did you hold any reservations of Ridge back in the Bush era?

    No. I like him for a number of reasons.

    He had no silver spoon in his mouth growing up, and lived in a public housing project as a kid.
    He was a a Harvard-educated law student-turned-draftee who didn’t dodge responsibility when his number came up.
    He doesn’t bow before the religious Right. (pro-choice)
    He pushed back against Bush when they wanted to up the threat level just before the 2004 elections based on unsubstantiated evidence.
    He doesn’t like giving police the right to question people without probable cause. (SB-1070)
    He advocated ID cards with biometric identifiers for employment verification long before anybody included it into any bill. ( I support this)
    He said waterboarding was torture.

    Can you support Crist even if it means he hurts Meeks?

    Yes. Meeks is very weak and not a good candidate.

    If Crist were to win (unlikely as it is) who do you think he’d caucus with?

    I’m afraid it would be Republicans, even though they think he is unworthy to be a member of the GOP.

  148. Meanwhile Lieberman continues to serve as chair of the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs, where he seldom holds meetings and investigates only Democrats.

    The mind reels!

  149. Graychin,tsk tsk…that reads like a personal attack. I think I’ve riled the old boy this morning. Something about pushing buttons after the pious speech you just gave? The shame…

    ———–

    Why, I gave you until 9:30 AM this morning to blather uninterrupted. That’s because I slept in.

    But if you really must know…

    At 50, I decided to give up the chase (2nd year medical school). Combination of ObamaCare, Medicare going broke, cuts in pay, physicians either dropping dead from overload or bailing out from servicing too many leeches, and finally – the realization I was simply too old to start a practice. Too great a risk. I’m so disappointed you’ve already forgotten me.

    Right now “my work” consists of downloading NetFlix X-file reruns with my tablet PC to the big screen while eating lunch, and waiting to pounce on your abject stupidity as I toggle back and forth while reading the news. I”ve got all day to do this Graychin, though this isn’t generally my habit. Normally, I can only take you in small doses, but it has been so much fun to flame the lite in the loafer flames, I may stick around all day.

    Later this afternoon, I’ll mow the front lawn so that it looks nice for Mother’s Day weekend.

    Life’s not bad Graychin. I enjoy the livelihood of bum. Consider it a combination of doing well through my 30s and marrying right. 😉

    Is “your significant other” also retired so that you may enjoy “its” company?

    ———–

    P.S. – I know how you love links. I thought I would provide you another one. Isn’t diversity great Graychin?

    http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local-beat/Students-Wearing-American-Flag-Shirts-Sent-Home-92945969.html

  150. I really do need to let other Conservatives share in the glory. But this is so much better than X-File reruns:

    If either had been subject to Republican party discipline the outcome would have been different. Democrats let their members wander freely. Republicans had damn well better stay on the reservation.

    Brought to you by a member of the Nancy Pelosi party.

    Sheer Comedy Gold!

    Born Free, as free as Graychin blows,
    As he kisses his partner’s hose,
    Born free to follow his heart…

  151. @Gorilla #100

    When a Tea Party person is hung while hundreds of people stand and watch while yelling “kill the tea bagger” then maybe you will have a point. The teabaggers represent the teabaggers. They don’t represent me or any other middle class American. The Tea party represents William an account executive making 200K/yr or George the retired middle manager who’s worried about his low seven figure stock portfolio and 401(k). Maybe they can re-brand themselves as the ‘Khaki Brigade’, a bunch of brokers and salesmen who threatened an armed insurrection against the Federal government because they are ticked off that they may have to pay $200 more in annual taxes?

  152. Ah, the European Crisis has finally hit as the Euro goes bye bye and DOW sinks below 10,000 for a brief time. I am wish I had bought more gold yesterday. At least I’ll be able to eat later this year. I’m afraid 100 shares won’t go far. 🙂

    Um Graychin, do you still prefer the European model that you suggested to me earlier this week at your blog? 😛

    Let’s see, we’ve got Greece, Spain, Portugal, possibly Italy, the United States?

    You “progressives” still believing debt, artificially low interest rates, debts we can’t cover, speaking nothing of unfunded entitlements still the way to go?

    I’ve just got to do it again!

  153. Tex, I didn’t attack you. I just asked what you do for a living.

    Your answer is “nothing.” That’s cool. Me too.

    But it doesn’t answer the question, does it? How do you support yourself?

    I’ll remind you of this conversation the next time you rag about freeloaders and lazy bums who won’t bust their asses to get ahead in life. It appears that you are one of them.

    Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

  154. #1 A minor lie about being done w/ thread.
    #2. Thx for the answers re Crist…dialog wow
    #3. biometric cards good AZlaw bad?mmm
    #4. the second real reason for my return. Not a pimp of a blog post at my place but rather sharing an interesting piece that goes to the original post.
    Its from STRATFOR,kind wordy but the last two paras are really good imo.
    In2 STRATFOR:Times Sq.

  155. @Graychin: “Ape – the law in AZ gives legal sanction to racial profiling, although it is politically correct enough to warn the cops not to do it. ”

    Notice how it appropriate for liberals to read into laws things that aren’t actually there? But mention of things like “death panels” are baseless lies that must be fact-checked by everyone from the MSM to SNL.

    “at least most if not all legal scholars think so,”

    Feel free to offer a link to support this statement.

    “Instead of checking people’s papers for breathing while brown, why not focus on the scumbags who HIRE illegals?”

    Why not focus on both–illegals and those who hire them.

    ” I think that the largest factor in his victory was his clever choice of a lazy and inept opponent.”

    Not unlike Mr. Barack Obama.

    “Alfie, I certainly concede that Brown was an attractive candidate who ran a skillful campaign. He’s got movie-star good looks, an attractive family, he speaks well. What more could voters ask for? Substance? Get real!”

    Again, not unlike Mr. Barack Obama.

    @Curator:” I would imagine you would want to repay Mr Niasse for his virtuous conduct by being visited by the ICE.”

    So now you have a problem with federal immigration officials doing their job?

    @Graychin, Curator and Rutherford: If it is the GOP that is dying then why are there numerous democrats who are afraid of running for re-election?

    Here’s a news flash for you 3–it takes more than repeating something over and over to make it reality. We’ll see in a few months who’s reality turns out to be correct.

  156. Graychin,

    When facing an opponent, I can honestly say I have never witnessed you even ask a question here or the T-World board without a degree of flippancy. You drip with it and appear a combination of arrogance and feigned innocence, while vacillating between kiss ass and smart ass without stoppage. It’s not just your politics I don’t like.

    But it doesn’t answer the question, does it? How do you support yourself?

    Until recently, I had exactly zero debt. My wife still has a good job – health care a none issue. Our only concern now is cash flow (assuming the market doesn’t collapse). Two college educations (one that is mostly paid for w/scholarship) and medical school, two homes, five cars, a boat, etc…in conjunction with a tanking market and costs increasing in everything has drained me faster than I originally planned in 2003.

    I have spent well over a million dollars in lost wages, lost options, and tuition costs the last seven years through the non-traditional road to med school. However, while no longer “rich” as the world would define it, I am not destitute either and much happier for the choice. That is what allows me to sit on my ass and throw stones at you. Many would be envious, and yes I’ve been blessed.

    I’ll remind you of this conversation the next time you rag about freeloaders and lazy bums who won’t bust their asses to get ahead in life. It appears that you are one of them.

    😆 Well, lazy bum maybe – but not always. But freeloader?

    How?

    I’ve never been given a dime that I didn’t earn, and don’t take a thing from Uncle Sam. The only monies I’ve received with Sam’s picture or name are tax rebates. Both my wife and I for at least ten years maxed FICA each year, yet I expect to see cents on the dollar for my troubles. No telling what will happen to our pension plans. Like everyone else, the 401K plans have been a disaster since 1999 – dead money if you will.

    I came from lower middle class parents. I received no help obtaining my degrees. I accumulated four degrees and one year of medical school, two while working full time. For four years, I kept two children, neither who drove for a time, with my wife living out of town so that we wouldn’t disrupt their lives. While the children were in high school, I went to school part-time when kid’s schedules allowed. I finished med school prerequisites this way and was accepted.

    I actually feel like I made quite a personal sacrifice in doing so, and my children both straight “A” students all along the way. One will graduate summa cum laude this coming December from college, the other just started at TU. I worked in steel fabrication shops to put myself through college with the help of some scholarships. Does that sound like a freeloader or bum?

    And here’s the real kicker Gray. My formative years so dysfunctional, my mother once told from a high school counselor I wasn’t college material. 🙂 So it’s not like I came from any wealth or big favor to start. There was a time my own life incredibly rough.

    No Graychin, I am the very definition of somebody who did bust ass for twenty-five years and at least for a short time while I still have my health, is enjoying the fruits of his labor. So next time you broach the subject, I will remind you that were I would put my resume next to most people, it wouldn’t look the freeloader I’m afraid.

    Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

    Yes there is. Sloth is a sin and that is exactly what I am now doing. I fully admit it is time to get off my ass and quit wasting my time on the internet. I’m way too young to be doing this and frankly, it’s boring me to death. And yes, it is possible that I have jeopardized a promising start. I really don’t care anymore because I now recognize the futility of chasing wealth.

  157. Alfie: I’m still on the fence about biometric ID cards. Kind of big-brotherish, isn’t it? But it might be necessary in this day and age, and wouldn’t necessarily rape the Constitution as far as I can tell.

    At least EVERYONE would have to get a biometric ID. That’s preferable to racially profiling brown people, as the AZ law encourages with a wink and a nod.

    HF – here’s a link for you:

    http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2010/04/23/law-profs-on-arizona-immigration-bill-its-unconstitutional/tab/article/

    There are lots like that one. Of course I can’t prove that there are NO legal scholars who think that the AZ law passes muster any more than I can prove that unicorns don’t exist. But it should be easy for you to find them since you know all about them. Links please.

    Forming “death panel” is ridiculous on its face. But Is it so hard to imagine cops doing racial profiling? They do it now. Would a bunch of people standing around speaking Spanish constitute “reasonable suspicion” to check their papers? Sounds like it to me.

    You forgot to mention that more Republican congresscritters are retiring (voluntarily) than Democratic ones. Why would anyone want to give up such a cushy job unless they feared defeat at the polls? Easy – the toxic atmosphere in Congress is enough to drive anyone away. Not a fun job at all in my view, even for the most egotistical, power-mad pols imaginable. For example, Oklahoma’s Mary Fallin (R) is leaving a perfectly safe seat representing the Oklahoma City area to run for governor of Oklahoma. And taking a big pay cut. Because she loves Oklahoma? I doubt it.

  158. TT – what an inspiring story! Thank you for sharing.

    FOUR degrees? Plus a good start on medical school? I guess you showed the world that you were college material after all – by becoming a professional student!

    Sometimes an early slight drives us in strange ways. Your testimony reminds me of a story an older friend of mine used to tell. He went to visit his grandfather when he turned 21, to prove to Grandad that he in fact did NOT turn 21 in prison. I found that story to be kind of sad.

    You probably thought in 2003 that with the good guys running the government for a change that the economy would soar and you would be in tall cotton by now. Your karma ran over your dogma, didn’t it?

    You may have recognized the futility of chasing wealth, but you have the politics of the ones who haven’t figured that out yet. With your politics, you would have fit in very well in the medical community, although I would worry about you in the compassion department.

    My job was always just a means to an end. The blessed ones are those who never “work” because their jobs are what they love to do. Apparently neither of us ever found that place.

    Mrs. Taylor is the answer I was looking for.

  159. Graychin,

    You probably thought in 2003 that with the good guys running the government for a change that the economy would soar and you would be in tall cotton by now. Your karma ran over your dogma, didn’t it?

    Quite the contrary, I was never that naive. As I have failed to educate the liberal crowd here, there are no guarantees in life, as everything has a measure of risk. I don’t believe in the nanny state and benevolent Barack, therefore I assume personally responsibility for my decisions, a concept completely foreign to liberals.

    I believe government but a necessary evil, an ineffective and wasteful taskmaster that should be no larger than absolutely necessary. I will be proven right – but will share the consequences of our government’s poor decisions with you and everyone else on this board. If it weren’t for my children also being hurt, I would laugh at your ignorance on the way down, my last words to you before we hit bottom, “I told you so.”

    In 2003, it wasn’t but three years before we had gone through the Clinton Tech Bubble, which so many of you attempted to blame on Bush. I knew that was a ruse with the NASDAQ at 5,000+ a bad joke, as I knew Clinton a serial philanderer and a benefactor of serendipity. However, the recent financial crisis did throw me for a loop. I didn’t see the entire consequence of the ties with the housing bubble coming. Yep, I got popped big time.

    Though no prophet, as I can’t tell you the when, it is not brain surgery to see the where of your dogma now leading us to the slaughter. That is a given all of us will soon experience.

    You may have recognized the futility of chasing wealth, but you have the politics of the ones who haven’t figured that out yet. With your politics, you would have fit in very well in the medical community, although I would worry about you in the compassion department.

    And yet, our Senate made up of multi-millionaire trust fund babies representing the Democratic party – totally immune to any progressive tax structure they may implement. I call it the Warren Buffett Sanctimonious Syndrome. The perfect job for those wishing to rule instead of govern, as they pay for their votes by buying favors from those who live on the backs of others. This is your Democratic party.

    The medical community, more specifically doctors, are mostly Republican for one reason and one reason only – they are real intellectuals; the cream of the college crop.

    As far as compassion, I might surprise you. You actually know very little about me Graychin, certainly far less than you think you know. In treating your symptoms, my preliminary diagnosis would be surgical incision to the frontal lobes.

    But you are right – I have never found “work” that I love and am incredibly envious of those that do.

  160. Mrs. Taylor is the answer I was looking for

    I apologize for the length of these posts.

    Perhaps your reading comprehension and math skills are not as good as I thought Graychin. Mrs. Taylor is the answer to children’s education and our health care. I suppose you missed the part that Mr. Taylor worked the corporation scene for 20 years? Professional student perhaps – while I worked.

    I thought you once told me one time in a previous life you were a CPA. So let’s have a small exercise in math and accounting. Mr. Taylor has spent approximately 1.4MM dollars in sunk costs, lost wages, tuition, travel, and expenses the last six years on his little adventure and incredibly stupid decision to attend med school. Give or take a $100K.

    Assuming our living expenses, Mom’s travel, college educations, upkeep of two homes, etc…cost another $75K a year, you must be assuming that Mrs. Taylor has an incredible job while being incredibly generous, being that the Taylor household lives approximately the same status and structure as 2003 – minus a few frivolous items and the carpeting needs to be replaced. Making these assumptions, I hope you can see where Mr. Taylor, until this year shared in the expense. My wife very nice – but not that nice. I hope that answers your mathematical miscalculation.

    If you require proof of anything I have written, I make you a challenge being we live close proximity. We can break bread and renew our “intense friendship” right there on Grand Lake. I will happily forgo my anonymity, even bringing proof of said membership, degrees in hand, a pay stub, and wearing the medical school coat for say a $10,000 bet? Please bring a cashier’s check, and I will buy lunch at the diner.

    Where do we meet for lunch? And do I need to pack heat or simply bring the Louisville Slugger? I prefer the wood, as I always liked the sound of a crack of the bat. 😈

  161. TT – I respectfully submit that you know just as little about me as I know about you, and yet that has not deterred you from jumping to some pretty outrageous conclusions about me.

    I have no desire to audit your finances or to have lunch with you. The one thing that I DO know about you beyond any shadow of a doubt is that your are a total asshole and someone I don’t care to know any better than I already do.

    Have a great day tomorrow. Retirement is pretty cool, isn’t it?

  162. The one thing that I DO know about you beyond any shadow of a doubt is that your are a total asshole and someone I don’t care to know any better than I already do.

    ————–

    :razz; :razz:: razz; 😛

    Rutherford: Graychin would like to know if you will drink a toast with him.

    Tex: Thank Graychin and tell him I have no desire to drink with him or any other Liberal asshole.

    Rutherford: [Nervous] I can’t tell Graychin that!

    Tex: Tell him, every word.

    Rutherford: [In liberalese] Tex says he will not drink with you or any other Liberal asshole.

    Graychin: [With a Fag Lisp] Tell Tex he is an asshole, too.

    Rutherford: [Very nervous] Graychin says he thinks you are an asshole, too.

    Tex: [laughing] All right. All right, tell Graychin I’ll drink to that; one asshole to another.

    A shame. I wanted to replace my old truck for free and on the same day knock a fat head into the lake to see if it would float. Good night Graychin.

  163. Man, 5 cops got shot in one night.

    5.

    Only one is dead, but damn. I was at my buddy’s Dad’s funeral. They are from the North West side, where many police used to live. So, a bunch of them were at the viewing. They are hurting. I can see it in their faces.

    Some of these blacks are 3rd world savages here. I’m telling you, growing up white and not succumbing to blanket hatred sometimes aint easy.

    I act like a real tough keyboard cowboy here but I have to admit, when I’m in a bad neighborhood, I’m scared to death. Roll through those red lights with out stopping.

    But now that my own old hood is collapsing, I never have that fear. When I see those fuckers on the corner I drive slow and and mad dog them.

    I wish the Charles Bronson character in Death Wish was real.

    My first home I owned is abandoned (again) and on the market for 10 grand. I bought it for 120 in 02. Can you guys believe that shit?

    Ernie Harwell died this week too.

    Amongst all this crap, Ernie was the main topic of conversation, even for the cops.

    That guy’s voice seemed to just float from backyard to backyard in the summer time.

    I never say this about famous people, but I will seriously miss him. I’m actually slightly grieving for the guy. Hell, my buddy’s Old Man was wearing a Tiger hat in the casket and I think the passing of Ernie had something to do with that.

    Ernie bowed out like a champ too. Came on the radio, told everyone good bye and thanked God for an awesome life.

    All class.

  164. Tiger’s broadcaster, right? I think I saw something on ESPN last night as I was typing something smug.

    Sorry to hear about the neighborhood Rabbit. May not be too much longer for any of us.

    Today, I was sitting with my soup in my lap, and for some reason, I had CNBC on – the market down about 80. As I’m eating my soup, the f*cking market tanks 900 points in the blink of an eye – I mine before I could eat my bowl of soup. I’m looking at the TV watching and trying to figure out what the hell just happened? PG drops twenty points in two seconds. Gulp.

    I jump on the computer – no word of Israel attacking Iran; no buildings collapsing, the Gulf of Mexico still existing, no nuclear bombs exploding in NYC.

    If I understood tonight, some schmuck makes a typo on the board – substitutes one letter for another. I shit you not – that is what I heard this evening.

    You are telling me somebody screws up an entry and the world financial markets collapse?

    Rabbit, I mean this – the feeling palpable. It’s like somebody, anybody, removes one more brick from the wall and the entire building of the world collapses.

    We are so vulnerable – especially with the regime in charge, as they are clueless.

  165. I saw that Ernie died.

    So many memories. My grandparents always had a radio on in the house, and tuned to WJR. I was never a Tigers Fan, but I loved Ernie, and the fact that the Tigers had core ‘Tigers for Life’ players in Chet Lemon, Lou Whittiker and Alan Trammel. For some reason, if I think of any of them, I think of all of them, and the word ‘Loyalty’ always floats to the top.

    Now Grandpa’s gone, and so is Ernie. Two fewer reasons to go back to Michigan.

  166. I stopped watching the news for the most part. Partially by choice, partially by being so busy. So, I’m only catching things for a few seconds. Sometimes, this leaves me terribly uniformed, “senisco style”.

    So, I am fully prepared to have my ass handed to me in here every-now and then when I spew some garbage off a ten second assessment from the days events.

    Yeah Tex….it feels like the Dark Ages these days.

  167. The DOW was down a 1,000 points for a very brief time. I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry as I watched it happen. It was 2008 x 10.

    I don’t know who or how they are doing it, but I am convinced these movers and shakers like George Soros are playing millions of us as puppets on a string.

    This bullshit has got to stop because when people lose faith in the markets, they will go into hysterics in a flash. People panic and bad things happen. That’s exactly what happened in 2008. People have already lost faith in government. It’s happening with markets now too – and I don’t blame people for losing faith. The Left’s got a point this time, and I fully support Obama or anybody else that goes after the bastards that are cahoots with this.

    We ought to line them up in front of firing squad and give some of these executives on Wall Street a new attitude about honesty and greed.

  168. So Tex and BiW deny saying that blacks are dependent on the Fed tit, lazy, and criminal. Tex wants me to provide examples. Well first, I’m too lazy to go find them ( 😆 ). Second, I thew the word “lazy” in there for good measure.

    Now let’s move on to the other two. What have both BiW and Tex said repeatedly about liberalism? They have said that liberals are to be detested because they have ruined the black family and ruined the black community by virtue of making them dependent on government programs. They have created the welfare state, the nanny state, etc. etc. Please BiW and Tex … please deny that.

    As for criminal, I can’t pinpoint whether it is Tex, BiW or Rabbit (or any of the other members of the RL Round Table) but at least one of them has reminded me more than once that a disproportionate amount of crime is committed by blacks. So, please deny that.

    Thank you.

  169. BiC,

    I didn’t know you were from Michigan. For some reason, I had you as a West Coast boy.

    Born, raised, and educated.

    Grew up in the shadow of GM smokestacks in Flint, got my first degree from the U of M, the JD from Thomas Cooley. Spent summers on Lake Huron, and at my grandparents’ place in northern Oakland County. It makes me sick to think of how far its fallen in my lifetime.

  170. FWIW, I have said and will repeat, Martha Coakley was one LOUSY candidate! She deserved to lose. Oddly, I kinda like Scott Brown particularly because he has already shown he ain’t owned by the GOP. Good for him!

  171. Now let’s move on to the other two. What have both BiW and Tex said repeatedly about liberalism? They have said that liberals are to be detested because they have ruined the black family and ruined the black community by virtue of making them dependent on government programs. They have created the welfare state, the nanny state, etc. etc. Please BiW and Tex … please deny that.

    Actually, my remarks have tended more toward the fact that some blacks have disproportionately benefitted not only by selling others into the modern-day plantation that the Democrats have fostered, but also by making sure that those chains of entitlement stay good and tight.

    As for your second, I do deny it.

  172. He pushed back against Bush when they wanted to up the threat level just before the 2004 elections based on unsubstantiated evidence.

    Only trouble Curator is that when Ridge was interviewed about that push back (after he published his book), he became a “gentleman” and really side stepped the issue. Kinda like he didn’t want to own up to the very thing he had written in his book.

    The jury is out for me on Ridge. He seems a decent straight forward man but I found his interviews on the book tour to be way too cagey.

  173. Damn…I went over to BiW’s blog and got all choked up. He made me think of my Grandma.

    I’m like an emotional 7 month pregnant chick tonight.

  174. Regarding 171, actually Tex I would have thought you’d find “flag T shirts” in poor taste regardless of the circumstances, The flag should be treated with respect, not emblazoned on a T.

  175. If it is the GOP that is dying then why are there numerous democrats who are afraid of running for re-election?

    Huck, all incumbents are nervous this year. Remember? Government can’t be trusted to do anything.

    November can’t come soon enough for me because the stories of the upcoming ass-kicking of the Dem party are grossly exaggerated!

  176. I don’t deny saying any of that stuff. If we’re talking about the black community, count me in.

    Problem is, nobody should ever be given an unfair shake becuase their community sucks.

    Hell, that would make us foreclosure rats here in Michigan potential terrorists if I am to believe the ridiculous mainstream spin I’ve seen over the last couple days.

  177. Rabbit,

    What the hell is going on, Tex? Give me your view of this unstable market.

    There may have been a time I felt qualified to answer this Rabbit. Not anymore. I think much of this is stoked by fear – because most of us have now been burned twice while playing by the rules.

    Add to the fact I don’t think anybody has a handle on truth anymore. I don’t even look at financial risk or balance sheets because I’m don’t even know them to be true. When debt ratings can be purchased for a price, how can you even measure risk?

    I’ll give you an example of how screwed up things are – if my own friend and financial adviser is right in his assessment.

    Do you remember the old rule of priority? Bonds a safer investment and taking precedent of ownership to equity, with equity demanding a higher rate of return for risk? My friend tells me there is such a high degree of risk anymore of default in the bond market, most investors to hedge their bets are moving huge sums of money from treasuries with no return to common stocks and skipping bonds because its the safer play. In other words, many investors think common stock a safer investment than say municipal bonds. And these are the professional investors. We are on the road to Greece and nobody wants to admit it.

    Rules don’t even apply anymore and what was once up is now is down.

    Yesterday, I bought a gold play for the first time in my life, and I think even that may prove unsafe. Believe me, when it comes to buy and sell of gold, I am clueless. But I did it as hedge against inflation because I think that is imminent.

    I think there is so much uncertainty, plus a lack of faith in honesty, with an incredible amount of debt now floating, nobody really knows what to do – creating huge swings in minutes. It’s actually pretty scary for a guy like me who has at least 80% of his net worth sitting in some type of deferred fund.

  178. I have never found “work” that I love and am incredibly envious of those that do.

    To Tex and Graychin, I loved being a first line (or departmental) manager. Of course my company did its best to ruin that by forcing me to lay people off almost as soon as I became a manager, And what goes around comes around, and I got my own walking papers in 2007.

    I do agree with Tex. I cannot imagine anything better than getting paid for what you love to do. I’m still working on that goal. Hopefully I succeed before I end up out on the street. But it greatly informs my attitude toward my daughter. I want her truly to follow her muse. I am determined to withhold judgment and let her pursue what fulfills her. Of course, she’s only 6 now so there is much time ahead.

  179. @Graychin: You claimed that most if not all legal scholars have deemed the AZ bill unconstitutional. And when I ask you to support that claim with a link, you waste my time with a link that has a whopping 2 people backing you up? I expected at least some kind of poll to support a claim that includes the word “most.”

    Let this experience be a lesson. You aren’t going to get away with blanket statements like that around here.

    “But it should be easy for you to find them since you know all about them. ”

    Feel free to point out any comment I have made that resembles that statement. I don’t think asking you to support your words counts.

    I have spoken in support of the state’s decision to pass the bill, and I have spoken in favor of the bill itself. I don’t believe I have given any hint of an opinion on its constitutionality. And if the Supreme Court deems it to be unconstitutional, I won’t have a real big issue with that.

    But I will continue to have a huge issue with the irresponsible way our government has dealt with the issue of illegal immigration for the past 30+ years.

  180. Regarding 171, actually Tex I would have thought you’d find “flag T shirts” in poor taste regardless of the circumstances, The flag should be treated with respect, not emblazoned on a T.

    I do. Actually, I’ve never liked the flag emblazoned on anything but a flag or maybe a pin – athletes are the worst at disrespecting the flag thru stupidity and it sickens me.

    However, Mexican flags have no place anywhere but the U.N. I heard some dumb ass broad tonight saying it was a sign of disrespect to wear the flag on Cinco de Mayo, much like Hispanics wearing their flag on the 4th of July.

    Hey dummy. You live in America.

    Here’s a question I would like to ask her. If Mexico such a source of pride, why are you climbing the fence to get here?

  181. Rutherford,

    But it greatly informs my attitude toward my daughter. I want her truly to follow her muse. I am determined to withhold judgment and let her pursue what fulfills her. Of course, she’s only 6 now so there is much time ahead.

    I tell you this Rutherford with somebody that is about 15 years ahead of you and has two daughters. I used to say “pursue what you love.” I still do, but….

    My youngest has chosen something already changing her major from biology to – I’m not sure what to call it as a major that will definitely draw a meager salary. Though she was a straight ‘A’ student and did well her first semester of college, I am fearful that one or two years out of school, she will have huge regrets and possible difficulty with finding a job.

    And this after mom and pop forked out $150K for her to attend a private university.

  182. Rabbit,
    The primary reason for the extreme drop of the Dow was some nimrod typing a billion shares when he meant to type a million shares. I don’t know the mechanics of it, but once they backed out the mistake it righted things a bit. Unfortunately it triggered panic among those who didn’t know that it was a typo and not a coup d’etat that triggered the drop.

    Folks also nervous about Greece.

  183. Tex I hate to bust your fantasy bubble wide open but if Bush were still in office or McCain and the no-brain had won the election, we’d still be in the “dark ages”. This sh*t transcends party affiliation. On my worst days, I think our dear country is in decline. Period. And on my worst days, I don’t know what can be done about it.

  184. Hey Rutherford,

    One note which will be meaningless to anybody else.

    Yes, I owe you a thank you. Yes, you have taught me a lesson about uncensored blogs – you and Chen both. And yes, I am appreciative and a grudging admirer.

    For this, you have my respect and my friendship (even if you are a loon).

    I meant what I said about the prayers…and still think you waste your talents in the wrong field. As much as it pains me to say this, you do have insights into politics – and it possible that I have overestimated this November.

  185. Yeah Tex, I hear you regarding concern over your kid’s future job security. But she might prefer a one room loft doing what she loves rather than a 3 bedroom house with two cars, doing what she hates. As for your investment. You were investing to give her the best potential outcome. It’s money well spent. The rest is up to her.

  186. The entire world economy can be toppled by a “nimrod”?

    I’m picturing the guys from Dumb and Dumber transporting the entire world back to the barter system.

  187. Ahhh regarding 217, the real rub is I have cornered myself into a lifestyle that does not allow me to follow my muse. That is why it is such a fool’s game to spend 25 – 30 years buried in “satisfactory” just to bring in the good money and then once you have that money, there’s no escaping.

    I must confess, that reading the exchange between you and Gray made me jealous. I will have no retirement. That much is for sure. I will work till the day I die. Not such a bad thing but one does dream of having the financial freedom to do what pleases you when it pleases you. LOL … I’m depressing myself … better go write a quick post before going to bed. 😉

  188. Rutherford,

    Tex I hate to bust your fantasy bubble wide open but if Bush were still in office or McCain and the no-brain had won the election, we’d still be in the “dark ages”. This sh*t transcends party affiliation. On my worst days, I think our dear country is in decline. Period. And on my worst days, I don’t know what can be done about it.

    Rutherford, you must have missed my previous comment about Wall Street. You basically repeated in your charges what I admitted – this is completely apolitical and all of these mofos share in the blame – crooked fund managers too.

    One of my many complaints with Obama, is that he not only has followed with bad fiduciary Bush policy, Obama has exacerbated the Bush fiduciary policy x 4.

  189. Rutherford,

    I must confess, that reading the exchange between you and Gray made me jealous. I will have no retirement. That much is for sure. I will work till the day I die.

    No, no. I’ve misled you then. Graychin is retired and I believe several years older than we are. He deserves retirement. I gambled and lost. Unless my health goes bad, there is no way I am in a position to retire and why my wife works. She hits her 35 year mark next year in the only job she’s known and that isn’t going to go on much longer. They’re going to can her one day because of her salary and pension.

    Maybe if I kept working the last seven years, I could have retired.

    No, we share a common predicament. I just simply had the advantages of a wife with a job the exceeds the normal income, and the fact I live in a much cheaper area than you with no debt. If I lived in CT, I’d be sucking wind about now.

  190. “I have cornered myself into a lifestyle that does not allow me to follow my muse”-R

    My wife and I have been talking and thinking very hard about life in general.

    We are going to back out of this “lifestyle”.

    She’s going to quit her job and be a stay home Mom (if I don’t get laid off this summer). The mortgage either gets re-modified or we walk.

    Either rent or buy (with cash or the wife’s parents signing the paper and us making the payments) a tiny bungalow and live a very simple life.

    Unethical?

    I’d say yes.

    I’m going to pay my credit cards off. I’m two years away. At least those cards won’t be a part of St. Peter’s rap sheet on the rabbit.

    I’m willing to pay for my sins in this life or the next. Let them come after me.

    My son will never know.

    I’m bailing, fellas.

    You have every right to hate me, as I will become part of the problem and no longer one of the good guys.

    I’ve wrestled with this for a long time. My gut tells me this is the right thing to do. Leaving my kid with essentially a stranger just to get constantly screwed over makes me a chump. That’s how I see it. Again, I respect anyone who calls me out on this.

  191. Rabbit, I certainly won’t judge you. Heck if it weren’t for my wife’s sensibilities and my utter jaw dropping fear of organized crime, I’d fire up a porn site and rake in the dough …. seems to me there can never be too many porn sites. 😀 (Just to clarify …. running a porn site isn’t following my muse … it’s a desperate way to make money.)

    My point is desperate times call for desperate measures. All that matters is that you can look yourself and your kid in the eye. Case closed.

  192. Why the hell am I up this late? I’m not even tired.

    Rabbit and Rutherford are going crazy and I’m frickin’ wasting my life slamming some chump only half a state away for amusement. This reads like the three stooges.

    Damn, those last two comments were funny. I don’t even know if they were intended to be funny, but they were.

    I don’t know Rabbit and Rutherford. This week I extended a line of credit – Sallie Mae and the gubmint can kiss my ass. I’ll write the interest off and tell them I put knew roof on my house for home improvement.

    Interesting thing transpired – I found out my credit rating and my wife’s credit rating. Why the hell a married couple of 23 years would have different credit ratings, I have no idea. My wife has a six figure income and I watch TV and slam Graychin, and my credit rating 4 points higher that her’s. You want to know how Goldman & Sachs makes billions?

    Anyway, we’ve got these wonderful credit ratings which they tell us they seldom see, and I’m signing papers for $50,000 credit with zero income for seven years. I might adopt the Greece system to see how long it lasts.

    And I start thinking what is this perfect credit rating getting me? I’ll think I’ll stiff somebody, maybe Uncle Sam just to spite politicians and authority for screwing me over – from Social Security ponzi schemes, to writing my daughter a $200 ticket for cutting through a parking lot.

    Maybe we’re having growing pains, middle age crisis, loss of libido (except Rutherford), etc…

    Rutherford, sell drugs instead. Unless you’re directing or performing, there is no money. My buddy, who sold his business last year and got divorced in the process, forwarded me some link he found where I could watch full length porn movies on my 50″ screen for the rest of my life if I wanted. I tried it once – ever seen a close up on a 50″ inch screen?

    They could use this in OBGYN training classes – major and minor labia; check; vestibule; check, urethra; check. They ever come up with scratch and sniff screens, guys will never be leaving the house.

    I think I’ve got an idea we can invest in? 😆

  193. I look forward to you idiots actually pointing to any substance of fact that even remotely supports the talking points of the left.

    ARIZONA STATE SENATE

    Forty-ninth Legislature, Second Regular Session

    FACT SHEET FOR S.B. 1070
    http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/summary/s.1070pshs.doc.htm

    Enforcement

    1. Requires a reasonable attempt to be made to determine the immigration status of a person during any legitimate contact made by an official or agency of the state or a county, city, town or political subdivision (political subdivision) if reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the U.S.

    2. Requires the person’s immigration status to be verified with the federal government pursuant to federal law.

    3. Requires an alien unlawfully present in the U.S. who is convicted of a violation of state or local law to be transferred immediately to the custody of ICE or Customs and Border Protection, on discharge from imprisonment or assessment of any fine that is imposed.

    4. Allows a law enforcement agency to securely transport an alien who is unlawfully present in the U.S. and who is in the agency’s custody to:

    a) a federal facility in this state or

    b) any other point of transfer into federal custody that is outside the jurisdiction of the law enforcement agency.

    5. Allows a law enforcement officer, without a warrant, to arrest a person if the officer has probable cause to believe that the person has committed any public offense that makes the person removable from the U.S.

    6. Prohibits officials or agencies of the state and political subdivisions from being prevented or restricted from sending, receiving or maintaining an individual’s immigration status information or exchanging that information with any other governmental entity for the following official purposes:

    a) determining eligibility for any public benefit, service or license provided by any federal, state, local or other political subdivision of this state;

    b) verifying any claim of residence or domicile if that verification is required under state law or a judicial order issued pursuant to a civil or criminal proceeding in the state;

    c) confirming a detainee’s identity; and

    d) if the person is an alien, determining whether the person is in compliance with federal alien registration laws.

    7. Disallows officials or agencies of the state or political subdivisions from adopting or implementing policies that limit immigration enforcement to less than the full extent permitted by federal law, and allows a person to bring an action in superior court to challenge an official or agency that does so.

    8. Requires the court, if there is a judicial finding that an entity has committed a violation, to order any of the following:

    a) that the plaintiff recover court costs and attorney fees;

    b) that the defendant pay a civil penalty of not less than $1,000 and not more than $5,000 for each day that the policy has remained in effect after the filing of the action.

    9. Requires the court to collect and remit the civil penalty to the Department of Public Safety (DPS), which must establish a special subaccount for the monies in the account established for the Gang and Immigration Intelligence Team Enforcement Mission (GIITEM) appropriation.

    10. Specifies that law enforcement officers are indemnified by their agencies against reasonable costs and expenses, including attorney fees, incurred by the officer in connection with any action, suit or proceeding brought pursuant to this statute to which the officer may be a party by reason of the officer being or having been a member of the law enforcement agency, except in relation to matters in which the officer is adjudged to have acted in bad faith.

    Continued…

    Investigations of Employers

    26. Allows the county attorney, in investigations of employers who are alleged to have knowingly or intentionally hired unauthorized aliens, to take evidence, administer oaths or affirmations, issue subpoenas requiring attendance and testimony of witnesses and cause depositions to be taken.

    27. Exempts proceedings held during the course of a confidential investigation from open meeting laws.

    28. Stipulates that an employer is not entrapped in an investigation if the employer was predisposed to knowingly or intentionally employ an unauthorized alien and law enforcement officers or their agents merely provided the employer with an opportunity to do so.

    29. States that it is not entrapment for law enforcement officers or their agents merely to use a ruse or to conceal their identities.

    30. Directs employers to keep verification records of their employees’ work eligibility through E-Verify.

    31. Establishes a class 3 felony for failing to:

    a) verify employment eligibility through E-Verify or

    b) keep records of verifications.

  194. So many posts, so little said.

    I asked for a definition, I got shit in return. Maybe while writing the definitions, things got a little too similar for comfort.

    Let’s see, this administration was born and bread on the premise of Marxist economic theory and when ever you get the fool off the teleprompter, we see those illusions front and center. From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs, or maybe just spread the wealth- of course you before you’ve earned enough money.

    And heaven forbid that the negative Constitution doesn’t talk about what the government can do for you, aside from simply leaving you alone.

    Of course, political correctness wouldn’t have any similarities to socialist/communist state speak…well, maybe a little.

    Your comments on ‘teabags’ is stupid and intellectually dishonest, as usual. Imagine that, holding up teabags at an event using the historical theme of the Boston Tea Party. I guess they were out of the canvas bails of raw tea leaves to pass around.

    You morons, just like the rest of the left, applied the teabagger moniker for no other reason than to be insulting and derogatory- and it wasn’t even an original thought for you. What’s the matter, Geneane Garrafalo run out of material?

    Clearly, you know nothing of the Tea Party movement, of course, why would you. Heaven forbid a few facts get in the way, like your claims of $200K participants. Sure, maybe there are a few highrollers in the movement, but the vast majority are everyday Americans. If you had any info on the movement, aside from MSNBC, or if you had actually ever been to a rally, you’d see that. But I don’t mind really, delude yourselves into thinking you know what the movement is or is not. November, you’re going to get your asses kicked in the polls. It’ll be fun to read your posts then as you desperately search for excuses…

  195. I am not knowledgeable on the intricacies of Federal/State interaction, so I will leave the decision of the constitutionality of the law on that point to the experts. (Can’t you find JUST ONE unicorn law professor who will support your point of view on this point?)

    But I think that all of us have some sense of what the word “vague” means.

    “…if reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the U.S.”

    What the hell does that mean?

  196. Tex, if unemployed you has a better credit score than your employed wife, it’s probably because you forgot to mail HER payment to Sears a few years ago, so HER Sears account became delinquent for a day and a half.

    If this represents how the lending industry grants credit in America, then it’s no wonder we’re having a foreclosure crisis.

  197. Graychin,

    If this represents how the lending industry grants credit in America, then it’s no wonder we’re having a foreclosure crisis.

    We have separate accounts on the small stuff – checking, VISA, Discover, no Sears. Never missed a payment, carry no balances, done business with them for 25 years. In other words Graychin, they know were good at our word. Of course, it helps to have a man’s paid house as collateral.

    Nope, here’s the reason my credit rating better than my wife’s credit rating. She has a higher revolving balance on her VISA than I do.

    In other words, she spends more. Sometimes a lot more. 🙂

  198. Graychin,

    Though I’ve volunteered far more information to you than necessary or I should, understand this.

    I do have income while I sit on my ass – it’s called dividends. And as so many have been cut dramatically, even conglomerate firms as none immune to the financial crisis, you can see why I gulp when I watch our markets tank 6% in three days.

    This capitulation BS you hear from experts? Another word for Guido getting his palms greased. These experts can’t find their ass with both hands.

    You were criticizing “preacher charlatans” yesterday, and it is deserved. If you haven’t noticed, we’ve got a bunch “financial charlatans” with degrees from Harvard, Princeton, and Wharton as their only claim to fame. They don’t get anything right either, other than the inside information they scoop.

    Like many elderly retirees with promises from Obama he can’t keep, as Medicare goes bankrupt and SS bankruptcy looms, I will have to go back to work eventually. If I ever work up the energy to type a resume, I may try hand at it this summer. I expect to be summarily dismissed like most.

    I guarantee you when the noise about health care stops, VAT tax will be first on board – and Obama will have committed lie 4,192 since he stepped into his “transparent” office.

  199. There will always be financial charlatans, because that’s where the money is.

    Some of them peddle gold and diamonds as investments, some are mortgage brokers, others run big Ponzi schemes masquerading as omniscient hedge funds. Some preach economic Armageddon because Obama is president. Others preach bankruptcy for Social Security and Medicare because those programs are “socialism.” None of them can see the future any better than you and I can. But their favorite marks are people who are already predisposed to the particular brand of snake oil being sold.

    Caveat emptor.

  200. @GC: “…if reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the U.S.”

    The “reasonable suspicion” to detain and investigate is already the standard. It is known as a “Terry Stop.” It must be based on specific and articulable facts and inferences of criminal activity, not merely the whims of the enforcement officer.

    The lawyers here will know that a Terry Stop is precisely what the bill’s use of the terms “reasonable suspicion” appears to contemplate (arrests are governed by the “probable cause standard).

    I haven’t figured out the criticicsm. Reasonable suspicion that someone is here unlawlfully applies to all crimes. Beyond the potential for abuse (which exists irrespective of the bill), I don’t understand the allegation that the standards are tooo vague or unconstitutional (from a federal standpoint).

    Is it the negative inference that bothers you (i.e. apprently the standard didn’t exist until passed by AZ)? Or is that there is no conduct that could objectively be considered a “reasonable suspicion” of illegal presence?

  201. It’s the latter. I just can’t imagine what constitutes “reasonable suspicion” of illegal presence – other than that he’s brown and speaks Spanish. And that seems like racial profiling to me – with a wink and a nod that says “but don’t use racial profiling.”

    Now if you’re OK with racial profiling, then at least I understand where you’re coming from. I’m not OK with racial profiling, and I think that’s also the primary concern of the critics of the law.

  202. I ain’t biting. Explain to me what you mean by “racial profiling.”

    Terry Stops have been deemed constituionally authorized when based on observations of race in non-immigration scenerios. For example, the white guy with middle class appearance in a black neighborhood (e.g. looking for drugs). Obviously, race not being the only factor, but when taken in combination with other circumstances lends itself to a reasonable, articulable suspicion “to investigate” further.

    The invitation for abuse is a complete red herring. That invitation was delivered when the cop was given a uniform.

    I’m not in favor of age discrimination, but when a girl “appearing” to be 15 years old wearing Hello Kitty sneakers is observed buying alcohol, don’t you think a cop has the right to ask for i.d.?

  203. graychin has legit concerns on a very superficial layer. The reality though is where he loses his ground.
    The real time use of this law will actually be extremely focused in 99% of times. It surprises me when people come off as being ignorant of how good many law enforcement agencies are now a days. Better educated officers and leadership,available resources etc. make even the Barney Fifes capable of knowing who where and why to cast their eyes.
    I think you’ll see some depts. only use the laws points in obvious cases,ie discoveries in the booking stage. Other departments will probably get their SWAT and drug teams into high octane mode. Seriously it’ll be very good if during a raid of cartel types or MS 13 strongholds if you can shed some folks secondary to immigration status.
    GC I invite you to give law enforcement some credit. I’ll extend hat invite to include attorneys and citizens too. This thing isn’t the boogey man you are working it out as.

  204. I’m boggled by what is so hard for conservatives to understand here.

    The AZ law SMELLS bad! I don’t give two figs about its constitutionality, all of its consistent precedents, all of the warnings, including gubernatorial declarations against racial profiling. All of that doesn’t amount to a hill of beans. The law is a friggin’ PR nightmare.

    Do we legislate based on popularity? Of course not. But when given a choice about how to handle legal issues, it makes good social and political sense to find methods that do not unsettle a good proportion of your population. Yes, the majority of AZ residents like the law … same for US citizens in general, but Hispanics hate it. That ought to tell you something.

    The law, as I have said before is redundant. All that ever needed to be done was for the AZ Attorney General to hand down some enforcement orders to the various AZ police chiefs, saying when you make an arrest and you discover illegal alien status, don’t let it slide. Report it to INS (or ICE or whatever it’s called). When you discover an employer employing illegals, bust him.

    That’s all that needed to be done. But no, dumbass AZ legislature and Governor had to grandstand. And it all comes back to the same damn thing. Obama represents the last straw for these people vis-a-vis social and demographic change in this country. “OK, if we gotta have a black dude in the White House, then we need to clean some of this other sh*t up or before you know it blacks and Hispanics will be running everything.” Believe me, that is a large part of what fuels this ridiculous move by Jan Brewer.

    So gentlemen, wax on about how legit the law is. Wax on about how law enforcement is being underestimated in its ability to enforce the law (law enforcement was one of the biggest opponents of the law). Wax on about how we libs are making a mountain out of a molehill. As we speak, Hispanics are fleeing the GOP in droves. AZ tourism is in major trouble. This is a total man-made disaster.

    The GOP better clean up this mess by November or you boys’ prediction of a major Dem ass-whupping will be a total joke.

  205. @GC: It was you that asked. And your circular rant doesn’t fairly address the response. Since your test for the constitutionality of legisltaion is now “it smells bad,” you better duck. That’ll come back to haunt.

    So there’s no mistake, I’m not in favor of racial profiling. I am a just a realist.

  206. Listen to R, complaining about how bad the AZ law smells, yet he was a proponent of the healthcare law. Talk about foul smelling laws…

    Hello pot, meet kettle…

  207. Hello pot, meet kettle…

    G, I’d take “show me your insurance papers” any day over the more generic, “show me your papers”.

    It’s so ironic that the party that called Obama a Nazi is the proponent of the most Nazi sounding political meme of the 21st century. LOL

  208. Rutherford the most recent incarnation of a national identity card is being pursued by the Democrats.
    The level of misinformation on the Arizona law (which hasn’t even gone into effect yet) is mind numbing. Are you not better than this?

  209. Rutherford, have you ever heard of a Green Card?

    Do you think that card is issued as part of a card collection, or do you think it is issued so that a legal immigrant can prove their status?

    If your answer is the latter, who would they be proving it to, if not to people who ask to see it?

    You problem with the AZ law isn’t that people are going to be asked for ID—your problem with the AZ law is that someone is finally going to enforce the law. Because if it were just about being asked for ID, you and every other opponent of this bill would have been protesting the Green Card for decades.

  210. “All of that doesn’t amount to a hill of beans. The law is a friggin’ PR nightmare. ”

    And that same fact has kept liberal democrats from passing how many bills in the last year and a half?

    “The law, as I have said before is redundant. All that ever needed to be done was for the AZ Attorney General to hand down some enforcement orders to the various AZ police chiefs, saying when you make an arrest and you discover illegal alien status, don’t let it slide. Report it to INS (or ICE or whatever it’s called). When you discover an employer employing illegals, bust him.”

    Yeah, because the federal government has shown such great proficiency in addressing the issue.

    If the fed enforced the law, states wouldn’t have to write their own. It’s that simple, even if you refuse to see it.

    “The GOP better clean up this mess by November or you boys’ prediction of a major Dem ass-whupping will be a total joke.”

    You must be new to the issue of illegal immigration, or you’d know that the GOP is just as much a part of the problem. It has pandered to illegal immigrants for years. And it has done them no good.

    Jump off the media coattails and do your own research on the subject, man. It’s maybe the 1 issue that is truely bipartisan–as in both parties are afraid to do what needs to be done.

  211. “R, you hear “show me your ID” how many times a day? The difference is?”

    The difference is that Kieth Olberman and Rachael Maddow haven’t instructed him to be outraged over that.

  212. “The law, as I have said before is redundant. All that ever needed to be done was for the AZ Attorney General to hand down some enforcement orders to the various AZ police chiefs, saying when you make an arrest and you discover illegal alien status, don’t let it slide. Report it to INS (or ICE or whatever it’s called). When you discover an employer employing illegals, bust him.”

    That’s simply untrue as the Feds have up till now been allowed to claim the turf. In fact the states are at the distinct disadvantage of having their needs subjugated to the will (or lack of will) of the Feds.
    It’s a reverse order precedent Rutherford but I’d invite you to remember the nightmare that was the New Bedford ICE raid in MA.
    One link of many here

  213. Gee, I wonder how ICE determined the immigration status of each of those 350 people.

    Think they asked them for some kind of identification? Oh the humanity!

  214. The level of misinformation on the Arizona law (which hasn’t even gone into effect yet) is mind numbing. Are you not better than this?

    Alfie, where have I parroted any misinformation? I’ve said the law is redundant and a very bad public relations move. I actually have NOT gone so far as to say it’s unconstitutional. In fact, were human beings better than they actually are, the law would be perfectly fine.

    You pull a guy over for speeding, His drivers license looks fishy so you ask him about his citizenship status (regardless of what he looks like). No problem. But humans are flawed. The “tip off” to some cops that the dude may be illegal is that his name is Jose. You can’t deny that’s a problem. Reasonable suspicion that someone has committed a crime is NOT the same as reasonable suspicion that they are here illegally. I’d like to see THAT reasonable suspicion defined.

  215. Huck … like I said to Alfie … you’re right about the Green Card. So, as I said 1000 times already, the AZ law is redundant. There had to be a way that AZ could have worked better with immigration officials to enforce the laws already on the books. Instead, as I said before, they had to grandstand and create new law and get crap deservedly thrown at them. It was a politically stupid, stupid move which should spell the end of Jan Brewer’s political career.

  216. OK, let me make sure I understand this G, Alfie and Huck. Whenever any state is dissatisfied with the manner in which the Fed enforces federal law, they have complete license to create their own laws and take matters into their own hands? Doesn’t that open up a can of worms?

    Well, and I’m not the first to say this, since you guys think we are going to hell in a handbasket economically anyway, maybe our country will become less attractive to illegal aliens? Maybe that’s our comprehensive national strategy. Cease to be the land of opportunity and they’ll stop coming. 😉

  217. How many federal laws duplicate state laws? Should the feds have jurisdiction on murder that happens within a state outside of a federal facility?

    To answer your question directly, states have very few restrictions in the constitution, unlike the fed which is restricted in what it can and cannot do.

    States are sovereign territories. We forget this because the fed has encroached so far beyond its mandate. The states have a right- no, they have an obligation- to protect their populations. The fed has failed utterly in stemming the flow of illegals. They are coming over and they are straining our services and increasing crime. I keep hearing this argument that, well, we have murders anyway so you can’t blame the illegals. BS. Just because we have our own crime issues doesn’t mean we need to import others.

    But here is the ultimate crux of the issue. When immigrants come to America, they must show that they can add something to our society. They have to have a minimum language capability, they have to understand our heritage and history, and they have to swear to uphold and honor our laws. Illegal aliens have shown, just by their presence, that they will not honor our laws. Aside from the obvious national breaking-and-entering, they steal identities to find employment, and they create as a second order of effect networks exploited by criminal enterprises to smuggle more people and contraband.

  218. “The “tip off” to some cops that the dude may be illegal is that his name is Jose. ”

    Tell me, if you at the southern border, and 99% of the illegals you detain are hispanic, what does that tell you?

    This is where you people drive me nuts. Its morons like you that have us frisking 90 year old ladies in the airports because of your God damned political correctness.

    Guess what, most illegals are hispanic, for a whole host of issues that mean jack shit to this discussion, so yeah, if you are in Arizona and you stop a hispanic, who looks to have a fishy ID, it is obvious that his legality in the country is a question. Its common fucking sense!!! Especially since they have to STEAL IDENTITIES to work here.

    God, how stupid are you people!!!

  219. Well ya know Rutherford if states are going to decide DOMA is no good and do what they do……

    When Jose gets pulled over in legal fashion and doesn’t speak english,has no license is the more likely scenario you will see the state pursue immigration status.
    Do I think the locals will use “felony plate light” tactics to check up on someone tanned? Yeah they probably will but then again pulling over a plate light is still a legal thing to do. Of note from personal experience I have shared the term felony plate light. People who are unable/unwilling to maintain their vehicles are often the same folks who fail to clean up warrant issues etc.

  220. Well, and I’m not the first to say this, since you guys think we are going to hell in a handbasket economically anyway, maybe our country will become less attractive to illegal aliens? Snark aside in the Northeast the illegal Brazilian population has been watched as it has shown that to be true.

  221. Liberals, as a rule, are generally facetious liars, disingenuous dodos, intolerant political activists with a cause, and/or just plain stupid. Most usually harbor a little of each character. Again, this is another red herring that should be discarded and mocked. If they call you a racist or sexist for recognizing racial profiling a tool of law enforcement, so what? You can live with that, safe in the conclusion you are not moronic like the phonies.

    See progressives demand that you to disengage your brain to believe the brunette with two small children carrying the Snoopy bag is equally suspicious as the five 27yr old Imams chanting Allahu Akbar as you board the plane. Anyone can be a terrorist.

    Or the seventy-one year old Orthodox Jew is equally likely to bust a cap in the back of your skull as eighteen year old pack of black bangers loitering around the liquor store.

    That a red headed grandmother a potential pharmacy armed robber every bit as much as the Mexican illegal whacked on PCP.

    The reason is most obvious. By definition, they must sound pious with the sanctimonious and hypocritical the run. It’s the sorority and fraternity initiation token – the same folk that they protest with, demonstrate with, live with, smoke weed with, sleep with.

    A perfect example of “progressive” cowardice and gamesmanship was demonstrated after the Prop 8 vote in 2008. There, progressives vandalized, physically threatened, posted personal addresses with road maps to homes on the internet boards of members of the Mormon and Cathlic Churches and “whites” of the business community, vandalizing both homes and churches in the process.

    However, the vandals/protestors were strangely silent in front of South Central LA churches or Oakland Churches mostly attended by blacks, or East LA parishes attended majority Hispanic who also voted the Mormons in huge numbers. I’m sure this was done out of “respect” for minorities, probably not to mention the severe ass kicking that would have accompanied the protest.

    Away from the “minority”communities, America’s most tolerant activists let slip one too many times the words “nigger” and “spic”, before being reminded that was a poor method of pandering for the 2010 and 2012 vote. They were severely scolded in front of the media, patted on the back behind closed doors.

  222. “There had to be a way that AZ could have worked better with immigration officials to enforce the laws already on the books.”

    And as I have said 1000, the Fed has proven over a period of DECADES that it has absolutely NO INTEREST in doing that.

    I have also asked a 1000 times…..if someone is supposed to protect you and isn’t, how long would you wait for them to do so before you start protecting yourself? 10 years? 20? 30?

    We’ve already waited that long.

    How long is enough? Half a century?

  223. Also…Rutherford, what do you have to say now that the Obama Administration has admitted that the failed Times Square bombing attempt has direct ties to the Taliban?

    “We know that they helped facilitate it, we know they helped direct it, and I suspect we’re going to come up with evidence that shows they helped to finance it,” Holder said.

    Look what else Obama Administration officials admitted over the weekend…

    John Brennan, the assistant to the president for counterterrorism and homeland security, told CNN’s “State of the Union” that the Pakistani Taliban — also known as Tehrik-e-Taliban, or TTP — is closely allied with al Qaeda. The group has pledged to carry out attacks outside of central Asia, including the United States, Brennan said Sunday.

    Looks quite a bit different than the bullshit we’ve heard on the subjects prior to now, doesn’t it?

    Will you now recognize my “I told you so”?

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