No, You Cannot Have Your Country Back

March 23, 2010 at 3:17 pm 146 comments

I want my country back!

That was the hue and cry of the Tea Party movement in the summer of 2009. Many Republicans heard the call, dug their heels in and stood against anything that the Obama administration wanted to do. Today those people lost a bit more of “their country” when President Barack Obama signed into law the most sweeping social welfare legislation of the past 45 years. There are already states attorneys-general lined up to challenge the constitutionality of the law. I think those men, the Tea Party Movement and the Republican Party have lost sight of what America is.

There are those quick to throw the Constitution in our face when we ask government to take more responsibility for the welfare of our citizens. What these people conveniently ignore is that the Constitution is not the end of our country, it is the start of it, the opening ground rules so to speak.  Our founding fathers recognized that they could not predict every contingency that would influence the course of our nation. Hence Article V of the Constitution allows for amendments to be made to it. In addition to those amendments our country is governed by federal, state and local  legislation. This is how a civilized society operates, with a written code of order.  The Framers had the wisdom to define some specifics but to know that some latitude was needed to ensure the nation could evolve. In particular, the Framers knew the importance of distinguishing between a right and a privilege and they made sure that the Constitution could not be used to abridge the rights of our citizens. The ninth amendment states:

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

via Bill of Rights Transcript.

Furthermore, our Declaration of Independence made it clear which fundamental rights our founding fathers believed in:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

via Declaration of Independence – Transcript.

It is to the extent that life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness have been advanced in this country, that we have fulfilled the promise of our founders. What makes our country arguably the greatest country in civilized history is our ability to evolve, our ability to recognize when we have wronged our citizens and then correct that wrong. What makes our country great is that against the tide of cynics who wish to protect their own comfort and safety, we have enacted legislation that protects the vulnerable. We have a rich history of making this country fair for all people, whether it was freeing blacks from slavery, to giving women the vote, we have time and time again taken a nation built by and for Christian white men and expanded it to be the most inclusive nation on the face of the Earth.

Today’s health insurance reform legislation, while far from perfect, takes us another step in that direction. Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi gave a concrete example on the floor of the House Sunday night. How can we be free to pursue the American Dream if we cannot change jobs for fear of losing our health insurance? This country, without health insurance reform, restricts the liberty of its people. Insurance reform is consistent with this nation’s commitment to protect its people. Life threatening illness is not consistent with life, liberty or the pursuit of happiness.  A country in which only the rich can enjoy the “privilege” of good health flies in the face of the very fundamental rights our founding fathers delineated. Therefore access to health care is not a privilege, it is a right and it must be protected by our federal government.

Today was a step toward  answering the call of the Tea Party movement and the Republicans. Today we said:

If you want a country where the rich only get richer and the poor only get poorer then
No, you cannot have your country back!

If you want a country where the noble concept of self-reliance is used as an excuse to ignore those in need through no fault of their own then
No, you cannot have your country back!

If you want a country where the middle class and poor can be bankrupted by illness because it’s just not your problem then
No, you cannot have your country back!

If you want a country where morality takes a back seat to political expediency then
No, you cannot have your country back!

The truth is that you really started to lose “your country” on January 1, 1863 when the Emancipation Proclamation went into effect. While very limited in scope, this was the first document to really redefine what liberty meant in this country.  It is sad that so many of you have still not seen the light more than 140 years later. You still do not recognize that it is America’s heart that makes it unique among civilized countries. Our country at its best recognizes and encourages the contributions of all its citizens and every legislative milestone that makes it more likely that more Americans succeed is a victory for all of us.

So Tea Party member, Republican, Conservative, status quo lover, you cannot have your country back because your county is not the “real” America. The real America is a country that constantly strives to be a more perfect union. Today’s signing of health insurance reform into law marked another step in progressing toward that goal.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

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Truth About the “Demon” Pass One Reason Why Reconciliation is Much Ado About Nothing

146 Comments Add your own

  • 1. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  March 23, 2010 at 3:57 pm

    Rutherford,

    I have to hand it to you. You have thrown some of the most asinine and idotic tripe on a plate and served it up as modern liberal profundity, but you have done something with this post that I had not thought you capable of: You topped yourself.

    You at once wrap yourself in the nation’s charter and bylaws and at the same time, you relegate them to a mere “starting point”, the soil in which you would have us believe the pernicious progressive weed grows. But then, to talk about Amendment, a process you and I have discussed repeatedly over several months, and then imply that we’re all racists because we lost our country with the 14th Amendment?
    R, it is an Amendment. If you want to propose an amendment that will give government the right to mandate that individuals MUST purchase something that it approves, then by all means, do so.

    While your at it, you may as well propose voiding the ninth and the tenth amendments as well, because state and local power is not confined to conducting the federal government’s entitlements and whatever remaining duties the feds let them retain.

    Really, this is the single most ridiculous thing you have written in a very long time. This “America is whatever me and the other neighborhood kids want it to be” nonsense is beneath you, R. The rules exist for a reason, and when you read the words without the context of what they meant when they were committed to paper, and instead filter them through the cracked and warped lenses of your desires, you’ll get it wrong.

    Every. Single. Time.

  • 2. Rosetta the Daddy  |  March 23, 2010 at 4:36 pm

    If you want a country where morality takes a back seat to political expediency then No, you cannot have your country back!

    Hahahahaha. What color is the sky in your world?

    Your party just set the world record for political expediency by bending every rule, breaking every convention and flipping the bird to the very people you expect to pay for this crap. Your side owns political expediency my friend.

    And you think morality can be enforced by agents of the IRS?? Only a morally bankrupt fool would believe that fantasy.

    Let me clue you in to a little distinction: me deciding to give to those less fortunate is moral. You stealing from me to do the same is theft.

    Enjoy your brief moment in the sun because you and your ilk are about to relegated to the political attic where you belong.

    You hate political expediency. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

    Good one.

  • 3. agiledog  |  March 23, 2010 at 4:45 pm

    So let me get this straight: “If you want a country where the middle class and poor can be bankrupted by illness because it’s just not your problem ” – if Joe Schmoe drinks himself into liver failure and obesity watching Dancing with the Stars and eating at McDonalds, I have to help pay to heal him? Where is the justice in that? There is none for me there.

    And this is plain wrong: “You still do not recognize that it is America’s heart that makes it unique among civilized countries.” No. Heck No. And once again No. It is our rules! And to have “signed into law the most sweeping social welfare legislation of the past 45 years” go through on a budget reconcilliation process is a perversion of those laws at the highest levels.

    And “How can we be free to pursue the American Dream if we cannot change jobs for fear of losing our health insurance?” It’s called risk. And it (risk) is specifically not protected against by the Declaration or Constitution. Get used to it……….. Unless you want to continue try and transform this country into a nanny state.

  • 4. Car in  |  March 23, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    s. A country in which only the rich can enjoy the “privilege” of good health flies in the face of the very fundamental rights our founding fathers delineated. Therefore access to health care is not a privilege, it is a right and it must be protected by our federal government.

    I’m not rich. I have health insurance. I also know a whole lot of teachers, government employees, union workers who also have health insurance.

    I know poor folks and old folks who have health insurance too.

    None of these folks are rich.

  • 5. Rosetta the Daddy  |  March 23, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    The truth is that you really started to lose “your country” on January 1, 1863 when the Emancipation Proclamation went into effect.

    The Emancipation Proclamation gave people freedom and liberty which is not surprising considering they came from a Republican President.

    The legislation that liberals pass limits freedom and liberty, punishes success and serves only to relegate more and more people to wards of the state.

    Like most liberals, you define compassion by how many people need government assistance. The rest of the us define it by how few.

  • 6. Car in  |  March 23, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    you want a country where the rich only get richer and the poor only get poorer the

    We have one of the most dynamic economies anywhere. Rich to poor to rich to poor.

    Clarence Thomas. Bill Gates. Bill Clinton.

  • 7. mesa in Texas  |  March 23, 2010 at 5:09 pm

    November is gonna be fun.

    Lowest first term poll numbers ever!!!

  • 8. Tex Taylor  |  March 23, 2010 at 5:18 pm

    With respect to the great Winston Churchill,

    “I have, myself, full confidence that if all do their duty, if nothing is neglected, and if the best arrangements are made, as they are being made, we shall prove ourselves once again able to defend our nation, to ride out the storm of liberalism, and to outlive the menace of progressivism, if necessary for years, if necessary alone.

    At any rate, that is what we are going to try to do. That is the resolve of our Founding Fathers. That is the will of our nation.

    The Republicans, the Libertarian, the Conservative, linked together with God in their cause and in their need, will defend to the death their native soil, aiding each other like good comrades to the utmost of their strength.

    Even though large tracts of blue states and many old and famous vestiges of our economy and our health care have fallen into the grip of the Obama and all the odious apparatus of Liberalism, we shall not flag or fail.

    We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in the courts,
    we shall fight on the schools and at the voting booths,
    we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength, we shall defend our nation, whatever the cost may be,
    we shall fight in the cities,
    we shall fight in the towns,
    we shall fight in the fields and in the streets,
    we shall fight in the hills;
    we shall never surrender, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this nation or a large part of it were subjugated and starved by the bully Pelosi, then our men beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the military would carry on the struggle, until, in God’s good time, restore order, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of our freedom.

    “The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. Whenever evil wins, it is only by default by the moral failure of those who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic principles.”

    Finally, the war begins…

  • 9. Hotspur  |  March 23, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    “No, you cannot have your country back!”

    If you think that you can hold on to it through the tyrannical tactics displayed in this recent affront to the constitution, by all means, you are welcome to try to hold it.

    You are on the wrong side of this issue, and you’re there for all of the wrong reasons. This bill was passed against the wishes of the People. Not just conservatives, but people in all walks of the political spectrum. It received no bipartisan support, and in fact, was opposed by numerous democrats as well. It passed in the senate because of bribery. It was crafted behind closed doors, with republicans locked out of the negotiations.

    It passed because as Alcee Hastings said, “we make up the rules as we go.” If this is the way you, and those of your ilk wish to govern, enjoy your power until it is stripped from you.

    Obama promised transparency, bipartisanship, the ability for people to see bills on his desk for five days before signing them, and other lies too numerous to list. He won’t see a second term, and the states he flipped to blue are all flipping back to red. Lookout mid-terms.

    This bill will be challenged all the way to the SCOTUS. It won’t eventually need to go that far because it will be repealed.

    As to you refusing to give my country back, you don’t have the power to stop it happening, and I seriously doubt that you have the intestinal fortitude for the fight.

    Respectfully,
    Hotspur

  • 10. Hotspur  |  March 23, 2010 at 6:17 pm

    PS: Turn comment moderation off. What are you afraid of?

  • 11. LOL  |  March 23, 2010 at 6:26 pm

    This might be the dumbest post I have seen on this blog to date, not to mention we’ve already had the whole “life, liberty and pursuit of happiness” debate here.

    “The truth is that you really started to lose “your country” on January 1, 1863 when the Emancipation Proclamation went into effect. ”

    And here we get to the heart of it. Why don’t you just quote the great Rev. Wright and scream loudly and proudly “WHITE MAN’S GREED RUNS. A WORLD IN NEED!”

    This is pure garbage. I’ll be back when you post something worth reading.

  • 12. Tex Taylor  |  March 23, 2010 at 6:38 pm

    Now you guys and gals go easy on poor, poor little Rutherford.

    Do you not know how many hours were invested to produce this inanity?

    Let’s adopt a liberal strategy and give him an “A” (for effort). It’s worked so well in our schools, I think we need to build his self esteem to induce him for follow up.

    Back in a better day, it would have been graded “NEEDS IMPROVEMENT” – synonymous with this is a piece of shiite.

  • 13. sensico  |  March 23, 2010 at 7:11 pm

    Great post, and Tea Baggers never represented America or the Americans that needed health care reform. People in “real America” unfortunately don’t have time to protest on every street corner for HCR because they have to work longer hours just to afford it.

    It’s only about them and their money. This level of selfishness is not and never was what America stood for. We’re all (or many of us) are very quick to help people in third world countries, but when it comes to the middle or lower class, they are left with little help. Many noticed in the 70s that the middle class was shrinking, only til now do we notice it.

    To me the tea baggers are nothing but a bunch of whiny spoiled brats. Just look at it! What do they do when HCR was passed, they threw temper tantrums, yelling racist and anti-gay slurs, vandalizing offices. They are classic loons, who need to be in mental institutions.

  • 14. sensico  |  March 23, 2010 at 7:16 pm

    Your party just set the world record for political expediency by bending every rule, breaking every convention and flipping the bird to the very people you expect to pay for this crap. Your side owns political expediency my friend.

    umm…you mean the same rules that republicans use??

    Obviously the conservatives on your blog R have selective memory.

  • 15. hippieprof  |  March 23, 2010 at 7:31 pm

    Good post, Rutherford.

    Don’t worry about the insane responses you are getting here. It is panic. I love the smell of conservative panic in the morning!

    Here is a favorite tweet I received during the final hours before the bill was passed:

    Teabaggers can’t have their country back because the confederacy was dissolved in 1865

    That about sums it up, doesn’t it?

    – hp

  • 16. hippieprof  |  March 23, 2010 at 7:34 pm

    R….

    It has been a a few weeks since I have been here – the heated rhetoric was starting to get on my nerves in the final days before passage. You seem to have accumulated a whole new set of crazies in my absence. Where did you find these people?
    ;)

    – hp

  • 17. beasn  |  March 23, 2010 at 7:34 pm

    when we ask government to take more responsibility for the welfare of our citizens.

    In your world, you ask that because you are morally bankrupt and refuse to reach in to your own pocket to take care of your fellow citizens. You feel, therefore, you must steal.

  • 18. Tex Taylor  |  March 23, 2010 at 7:43 pm

    I love vile libs, never knowing when the storm is about to hit. They remind me of the scenes from Independence Day.

    Watch closely as Obama’s future home is unveiled. Will Smith and Jeff Goldberg ain’t going to save your this time loons. :smile:

    What a glorious day it will be to see Obama obliterated from on high! The Jiffy Pop and butter are waiting!

  • 19. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  March 23, 2010 at 7:43 pm

    It’s only about them and their money. This level of selfishness is not and never was what America stood for.

    Ahh yes. John Hancock and his contemporaries often reflected on their actions and the fact that once they had defeated England, they would be free to pay larger and larger portions of their income to the government, so that the government could increase its generosity to the lower and middle class.

    I realize this may be a shock to you, but we had no permanent federal income tax until the 16th Amendment to the Consitution was ratified on February 3, 1913. This means that for more than one hundred years since its founding, this country grew, innovated, and became a world power without having to resort to looting its most productive to care for the least productive. And those eeeevvvvvvviiiilllll robber barrons? Yeah, they endowed the libraries and the univerisities that would educate succeeding generations of intelligent and ambitious Americans. They paid it forward.

    We’re all (or many of us) are very quick to help people in third world countries, but when it comes to the middle or lower class, they are left with little help.

    True, but now I, and other members of that middle class that you wring your hands over and lament will have less of my money to be generous with. And I don’t want government’s “help”. Invariably, when government helps, it magnifies existing problems and creates unforeseen new ones. The best help that government could give me is to maintain the military, adjudicate conflicts between the various states, and quit inserting itself into every bloody aspect of my life, all the while picking my pocket and telling me how it is helping me.

    Many noticed in the 70s that the middle class was shrinking, only til now do we notice it.

    This is why you should proofread…many noticed then til now do we notice it?
    If you mean by this gobbledegook that many noticed the middle class starting to shrink in the 70′s, you would be correct. Assuming that this occurred due to a lack of government intervention is both foolish and unsubstantiated by fact. A stark lack of energy independence coupled with paying for a war Democrats had no intention of winning and the ewver increasing costs of expanding the Great Society and another war Democrats had no intention of winning were the primary factors in pressuring the middle class to shrink.

    To me the tea baggers are nothing but a bunch of whiny spoiled brats.

    Funny. I could say the same thing about college students eagerly lapping up the pap spoon-fed to them by aging hippies disguised as professors with tenure. or chin stroking “Thinkers” who did not bother becoming politically aware until 2008 and possess neither the intellectual grounding or historical perspective to understand that they regularly say things that are antethical to fact and law.

    they threw temper tantrums, yelling racist and anti-gay slurs

    And yet, in the age when everyone has a video camera on their phone, NO ONE captured these heinous incidents…mmmmmm.

  • 20. Tex Taylor  |  March 23, 2010 at 7:45 pm

    I love vile libs, never knowing when the storm is about to hit. They remind me of the scenes from Independence Day.

    Watch closely as Obama’s future home is unveiled. Will Smith and Jeff Goldberg ain’t going to save your this time loons. :smile:

    What a glorious day it will be to see Obama obliterated from on high! The Jiffy Pop and butter are waiting!

    Hmmm….where’s my video?

  • 21. Tex Taylor  |  March 23, 2010 at 7:47 pm

    Try, try again.

    We’ll do this the old fashioned way…

  • 22. Tex Taylor  |  March 23, 2010 at 7:51 pm

    Hippie,

    As an added bonus to the passage and the economic turmoil to follow, I have put forth to my own Senators, it is time to reduce the funding for higher education research – especially the liberal arts; the most overrated of all monetary investments. :smile:

    Isn’t America great? Welcome to the party!

  • 23. hippieprof  |  March 23, 2010 at 8:04 pm

    Tex…. and here I thought you were going to tell me that you were recommending to your senators than Texas go ahead with secession. I am disappointed…
    ;)

    Not sure how you justify those claims that higher education is a bad investment. People with a college education earn double what those without earn. Since when is doubling your money a bad investment?

    – hp

  • 24. Rutherford  |  March 23, 2010 at 8:13 pm

    1. I love this notion that if it hasn’t gone viral on Youtube then it didn’t happpen. I for one believe the people who said they were slurred. I don’t need a video to prove it. Again when conservatives are confronted with uncomfortable facts they say “it’s not true” and that’s the sum total of their defense.

    2. I don’t moderate “regulars” on this blog unless they post more than 3 (or maybe 5, I forget) links in one comment. I do approve new commenters to keep out spam. You’d be surprised how many blogs I’ve visited that are unmoderated and are full of comments like “good blog”, meant to do nothing but advertise their link.

    3. With that said, I think I recognize several names from “The Hostages”. Welcome to the blog.

    4. Finally (for now) thanks HP for that great tweet. That about sizes it up! :-)

  • 25. Tex Taylor  |  March 23, 2010 at 8:30 pm

    Hippie, you old rock and roller,

    Tex…. and here I thought you were going to tell me that you were recommending to your senators than Texas go ahead with secession. I am disappointed…

    Me too. You can’t imagine how anxious I am to separate myself from your ilk. But if you play poker, you know you never show your hole card until the last hand. :wink: We just dealt the cards. The game is still to be played. You may get that Confederacy you were hoping for yet!

    Not sure how you justify those claims that higher education is a bad investment. People with a college education earn double what those without earn. Since when is doubling your money a bad investment?

    That’s a great marketing ploy, but you’re going to have a real difficult time convincing those recent college grads of the last 3-4 years and their parents, now $150K in the hole and unemployed or underemployed, of that. I guess you haven’t picked up on the recent trends only now beginning to filter through have you? Not surprising, consider you live a sheltered life of academia. Businesses are starting to come to the conclusion a college degree may not be worth much anymore. Only a few fields like engineering, accounting, and medicine paying off. :smile:

    But the good thing is we probably have a lot more plumbers, heating and air, electricians, and the like coming down the pike. You know, real work for real pay. And the best part is with the new supply, there won’t be legalized thievery to get your house fixed.

    Make you a bet. Ten years from now, you won’t recognize higher education. I’d wager a large sum on that. Count on your salaries taking a major hit in the coming years, and unless the research engineering or medical related, goodbye.

  • 26. Tex Taylor  |  March 23, 2010 at 8:33 pm

    An obvious thug Dim lying about being slurred… :roll:

    What’s new? No proof, only accusation with their feelings hurt. Rutherford, have you not recognized yet the charges of “racism” falling on deaf ears now? Game’s over son.

    I tip my cap to President Obama! :lol: You should revert back to demands for reparations….

  • 27. dick  |  March 23, 2010 at 8:52 pm

    Pencildick, I got your name on a Post-It-Note, along with a few other irreversibly stupid fucksticks. Maybe one day you’ll make the papers. Probably the New York Times.

    The good news? I still laugh my ass off every time I open this lame ass shithole.

    And where’s the stinkin’, stoned hippie who’s allergic to soap? I got my shit kickin’ boots on.

  • 28. Tex Taylor  |  March 23, 2010 at 9:14 pm

    I’m just wondering how these libs, acting the part of big win, are going to explain:

    (1) Half the country wants Obamacare declared unconstitutional at this minute.
    (2) If the bill so good, why the multitude of bribes to get it passed?
    (3) Nancy Pelosi’s 11% approval rating.
    (4) Harry Reid’s 8% approval rating.
    (5) Obama’s 43% approval rating
    (6) Congressional approval rating of 14%.
    (7) 38 states either have filed or planned to file legal challenges of a similar sort.

    The last one sounding to me like maybe our best approach to simply pass an Amendment declaring Obama Care null and void forever and a day. 75% of the states are now there apparently…a long process to be sure but forever assuring we don’t fight this fight again.

    Libs, if you think this is going to fly in its present form, you need to quit sniffing the glue before you overdose. Enjoy the celebration folks, because you’re going to get hammered coming around the bend.

  • 29. Kaja  |  March 23, 2010 at 9:43 pm

    Excellent post, I couldn’t agree more. I didn’t read through the comments, but I suspect it is a lot of angry republican rhetoric.

    I think if conservatives took a step back from ‘the political war’ and really thought about how good health care reform would be for our country (real reform, not this watered down version we got) than they would welcome it with open arms. Their focus and energy isn’t on progression, or making this country better, it is focused on stopping Obama. Racism, political rivalry, whatever it is, Republicans sole goal, in my opinion, is to stop Obama by any means necessary from having a historical victory. Its all politics to them. And the ones who voted for this bill, risking their jobs, broke through the political bulls#@ and truly improved the United States of America, and they should be commended for it.

  • 30. Tex Taylor  |  March 23, 2010 at 11:02 pm

    Read um’ and weep Dems. You may think Obama going to pay your rent and provide your health. You may think your worthless asses are attached to the gravy train as you roll over and fetch for massa.

    But you’re in an ever dwindling minority.

    Down goes Frazier!

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/23/fox-news-poll-say-economy-collapse/

  • 31. Rutherford  |  March 24, 2010 at 12:16 am

    Apparently, under Washington, militia members were compelled by Federal law to purchase their own arms. So much for the “never in history has the Fed compelled the purchase of anything” argument. :-)

    http://thinkprogress.org/2010/03/23/cuccinelli-washington/

  • 32. Rutherford  |  March 24, 2010 at 12:29 am

    Kaja, welcome to the blog. If ever there was a vote that involved being on the right side of history, this was it. It’s a shame that politicians fueled by partisanship and Obama-hate stood on the wrong side this time. At least they were defeated.

    With any luck, they will pay in November.

  • 33. Rutherford  |  March 24, 2010 at 12:36 am

    The Emancipation Proclamation gave people freedom and liberty which is not surprising considering they came from a Republican President.

    Oh please. The same Republican President who has been reviled in the comments section of this blog for trampling on people’s rights during the Civil War … but now you claim him as hero. And let’s not forget that was not today’s Republican Party. Circa 1968 the parties swapped places in terms of social awareness when the Dem’s dared to hammer through civil rights legislation and lost the South in doing so. The Republicans saw their “opportunity” and have been playing on Southern fear and resentment ever since.

  • 34. Tex Taylor  |  March 24, 2010 at 12:38 am

    You know Rutherford, I’ve wasted way too much time here and might leave soon except for special occasions were I come to humiliate given the chance, as I’ve found other blogs more entertaining and enlightening recently, but this post does beg a question(s).

    No, you cannot have your country back!

    What makes you think it is your country for one, and two, what in heavens name do you propose to do if half the country tells you to shove it and you’re not welcome where we are going? I can guarantee you without a shadow of a doubt that you would be about as popular here as root canal and we could easily remove you and your pals pals of persuasion if we wanted. You going to send in the troops, because about 3/4 of them hate your guts too. I’d say 3 to 4 against 1.

    Do you really think you can stop us from leaving if we so desire? This possible Civil War of last resort would not be one of recent history, but one of dissolution. You go your way, and I’ll go mine. Nobody is to be held captive and the freedom to choose would still reign (as long as you and yours don’t come over to my side, because you would not be welcome).

    I don’t think if it comes to that, you clowns can do a damn thing to prevent of giving you the collective finger besides take up arms. And personally, I don’t believe you’ve got the guts to do as much.

    You can see why I am not terribly worried, no matter how much you manipulate the situation for a season. If push comes to shove, there is not really much you could do about it but whine and pay the piper – we are not dependent upon you in anyway if we see fit to determine as such. :smile:

    Maybe forgo the occasional good movie, or see a broadway show. But what else can you really offer that we wouldn’t have now besides your baggage?

    And the more I think about it, the more entertaining the idea comes. Surely you aren’t naive enough to think I’m alone in my thought, are you?

  • 35. Rutherford  |  March 24, 2010 at 12:38 am

    I’m not rich. I have health insurance. I also know a whole lot of teachers, government employees, union workers who also have health insurance.

    And all of you are one layoff away from NOT having health insurance. It confounds me why that concept is so hard to understand.

  • 36. Tex Taylor  |  March 24, 2010 at 12:51 am

    And all of you are one layoff away from NOT having health insurance. It confounds me why that concept is so hard to understand.

    So what? While a pain, losing health insurance is not a ticket to the grave for most, nor is a layoff a family tragedy. If it is, you purchase a subsidy to carry you through catastrophic health. Millions do it now..

    Life itself is a risk Rutherford. You get another job and hope in the interim that nothing catastrophic happens. And if the chances are such, you deal with it.

    You plan and prepare for things like. That’s why we call ourselves adults. It confounds me why you think of government as your benevolent Father, and your life should be risk free.

    Really, you’re not only dependent but incredibly weak. So is your entire party, and that is why you will ultimately fail.

  • 37. LOL  |  March 24, 2010 at 12:54 am

    Yeah, its the comments that keep us coming back.

    With that said, this militia example sucks as bad as this post does.

    Those militia members also could have told Washington to kiss off as they packed up and went home. There was no mandate for all Americans to buy arms.

    But what should we expect from a guy who takes his History lessons from Think Progress?

    Got any more bad examples to share? Maybe you’d like to toss out the auto insurance example some more so we can remind you how that mandate doesn’t apply to the millions of Americans who don’t own cars.

    @Kaja “Republicans sole goal, in my opinion, is to stop Obama by any means necessary from having a historical victory.”

    Obama’s historic victory was achieved on November 4, 2008.

    On another note…

    Rutherford, are you for or against sex offenders recieving Viagra under ObamaCare?

    Should the health insurance mandate apply to illegal immigrants, as they use the same emergency services who’s costs are supposedly driven up by non-insured Americans?

  • 38. an800lbgorilla  |  March 24, 2010 at 6:30 am

    “What these people conveniently ignore is that the Constitution is not the end of our country, it is the start of it, the opening ground rules so to speak.”– R

    Which is why you have essentially trampled all over the document.

    “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” – 10th Ammendment of the U.S. Constitution

    So, where, within the document, are the powers delegated to the U.S. to mandate 1) that every man, women and child purchase a product and 2) that the U.S. has authority over provisions that have been heretofore reserved to the states?

    Line and verse if you will.

    Secondly, we know you won’t find it. Obama knows he won’t find it, in fact, Obama recognized this long ago.

    “As radical as I think people tried to characterize the Warren Court, it wasn’t that radical. It didn’t break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the Founding Fathers in the Constitution, at least as this has been interpreted — and Warren Court interpreted it in the same way, that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. It says what the states can’t do to you, says what the federal government can’t do to you. But it doesn’t say what the federal government or the state government must do on your behalf.” – Barak Obama on Odyssey (Chicago NPR program) September, 2001

    The preamble of the U.S. Constitution says, “We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

    Negative liberties? Read the 10th Ammendment again, it isn’t negative, it positively identifies what the powers of the federal government are and WHAT THEY ARE NOT. Furthermore, the Constitution is very clear on what the federal government must do on behalf of the citizenry:
    • Insure domestic tranquility, which means to ensure the federal government had powers to squash rebellion and to smooth tensions between states.
    • Provide for the common defense
    • Promote the general welfare, with welfare meaning n. 1. health, happiness, or prosperity; well-being. It doesn’t mean organized handouts.
    • Secure the blessing of liberty to ourselves and to PROSPERITY

    You’ll notice that it doesn’t say, “Provide for the General Welfare”. And how is bring us further into debt, to the tune of a couple trillion dollars, securing the blessings of liberty to our prosperity?

    See, thus is why half ass efforts by the left to wrap yourself in the Constitution always fail. You have no respect for the document, if you did, you wouldn’t have written the drivel you did. You know the document doesn’t support this, in fact, it explicity prohibits this kind of expansion by the federal government.

    “It is to the extent that life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness have been advanced in this country, that we have fulfilled the promise of our founders. What makes our country arguably the greatest country in civilized history is our ability to evolve, our ability to recognize when we have wronged our citizens and then correct that wrong. What makes our country great is that against the tide of cynics who wish to protect their own comfort and safety, we have enacted legislation that protects the vulnerable. We have a rich history of making this country fair for all people, whether it was freeing blacks from slavery, to giving women the vote, we have time and time again taken a nation built by and for Christian white men and expanded it to be the most inclusive nation on the face of the Earth.” – R

    Ahhhh, the crux of the matter. What would a post be by a liberal if the token white man didn’t get thrown under the bus. We’ll point out, by the way, that these legislative efforts to protect the vulnerable and enforce equal rights have been lead by white men in the GOP, which is particularly entertaining to see a black liberal Democrat, support a party and ideology that has gone out of its way to destroy the black family and oppress both women and blacks throughout our nations history.

    Really R, do you actually read history books? Do you have a clue?

    The Declaration says, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”

    We have shown, repeatedly, that the people of this nation are overwhelmingly against the HCR legislation. We have also showed, repeatedly, that not only did they not like the legislation itself, they especially did not like the process for which the legislation was written. This entire discussion can boil down to ends versus means. You think you know better, you don’t give a shit about what anyone else thinks, so fuck them, you’ll take it all and be damned the 2nd and 3rd order effects that will come.

    My life is progressing nicely, yours is apparently regressing, so why the fuck do I want to take advice or guidance from you?

    “Today was a step toward answering the call of the Tea Party movement and the Republicans. Today we said:” – R

    Today, you said, “FUCK YOU AMERICA

    Be careful, because in November, you’re fucked.

  • 39. hippieprof  |  March 24, 2010 at 8:23 am

    Tex said…

    Me too. You can’t imagine how anxious I am to separate myself from your ilk. But if you play poker, you know you never show your hole card until the last hand. :wink: We just dealt the cards. The game is still to be played. You may get that Confederacy you were hoping for yet!

    Funnt thing is, if Texas did go this route I suspect quite a few people would say “goodbye and good riddance….

    The idea that Texas might secede opens up some juicy speculation….

    If Texas did go, I wonder how long it would be before they insisted on being included in NAFTA?

    If Texas experienced a devastating hurricane – would the international response be more like what we saw in Haiti or Chile?

    I suppose Texas would actually have a surplus of oil – would they join OPEC?

    If Texas ever does reveal it’s hole card it will make for some fun blogging ;)

    – hp

  • 40. hippieprof  |  March 24, 2010 at 8:35 am

    Tex said….. Make you a bet. Ten years from now, you won’t recognize higher education. I’d wager a large sum on that. Count on your salaries taking a major hit in the coming years, and unless the research engineering or medical related, goodbye.

    Tex, people have been saying this for years. Some of what you predict has already started to occur. Probably the biggest challenge to higher education has been the emergence of online diploma mills like the University of Phoenix. These places do not really provide a quality education – but the manage to deliver it at low cost. They are a challenge.

    Yes – unemployment amongst recent college graduates is a problem. The problem is worse in a lot of traditional blue collar industries, though.

    I suspect college grads will still have an advantage at jobs in which employees are required to think on their own. Colleges do try to teach critical thinking skills. High Schools and trade schools, not so much.

    – hp

  • 41. hippieprof  |  March 24, 2010 at 8:45 am

    Gorilla said….

    Today, you said, “FUCK YOU AMERICA” Be careful, because in November, you’re fucked.

    Gorilla, I wouldn’t count your November chickens yet. Sure, Dems will lose seats as the in-power part always does in mid-terms, but the losses are not going to be as large as you are hoping. Polls on health care have already started to turn positive – and will continue to do so as people discover that the bill isn’t what Pravda-FOX has painted it to be.

    Besides, the polls were never as negative as the media has portrayed them anyway. A substantial portion of the opposition has always come from the left – from people like me who believed that the bill was too conservative.

    I did a lengthy post about this over on my blog yesterday – but to summarize: If you actually look at the polls in detail you will find that a majority of Americans supported this bill OR SOMETHING MORE LIBERAL. The right wing loves to claim that “the people” reject this bill because it is too liberal – when in fact the opposite is true.

    – hp

  • 42. Alfie  |  March 24, 2010 at 11:26 am

    Rutherford and the other delusional libs (Sensico and Hippie) that agree with the following:

    If you want a country where the rich only get richer and the poor only get poorer then
    No, you cannot have your country back!

    Well a great number of the rich are gonna get richer and most of the poor poorer precisely because of the law signed by BHO

    If you want a country where the noble concept of self-reliance is used as an excuse to ignore those in need through no fault of their own then
    No, you cannot have your country back!

    Just too funny. Health care reform has nothing to do with those that otherwise end up on Medicaid or Medicare. I also am fascinated by how anyone thinks this debacle somehow promotes freedom to change jobs etc. If you lose your job how are you gonna pay the premiums?

    If you want a country where the middle class and poor can be bankrupted by illness because it’s just not your problem then
    No, you cannot have your country back!

    This bankrupts us so how about you keep that country and I take the other one.

    If you want a country where morality takes a back seat to political expediency then
    No, you cannot have your country back!

    This line doesn’t make any sense. Signing something into law, knowing full well you are going to change it ,isn’t expediency on steroids???? Creating dependency and dictating a mandate upon free people-how’s that reconcile with your completely warped sense of morality?
    Seriously folks. Hippie you are absolutely partisan freak. You are completely absorbed with your own partisan rhetoric and have the stones to say those on the right have a problem. Sensico..no comment kid. Rutherford you get great traffic due to outrage. Awesome.

  • 43. Tex Taylor  |  March 24, 2010 at 11:49 am

    Hippie,

    I have cut and pasted your response to my pals in Texas about good riddance. The few replies I received back have ranged from “Good” to “Remember the Alamo” Oh, how little some of you leftists minimize the wish to remove ourselves from dependence. :smile: Hopefully, if we can get hundreds of thousands of letters like yours, it will provide impetus to move forward and we can put that to the test.

    Are you so naive to believe Texas the only one? What I’d like to see is how easily you support NAFTA after we fee you to death for our roads, tax you to death for our ports, treat you like Libya. You better be taking the long way home baby or digging deep into the pocket, so expect some exorbitant costs along the way, or detour through Cali. :twisted:

    Bad news Hippie – this part of the country you continually diss is completely self sufficient. However, it supplies large part of “your country” with some of life’s necessities – heating oil being only one. Maybe we will just freeze many of you to death? Better be planting some more corn fields, as you’ll be discovering the thermodynamic properties ain’t what they have been advertised :smile:

    We shall see about college education – from plagiarized, poorly constructed, overpriced books you force students to buy new, to many a useless curriculum, to your research funding, I have made it my mission to “go after” the lie and shout very loudly about the thievery. It is slow going so far but gaining momentum. Old habits die hard – but they do die.

  • 44. Curator  |  March 24, 2010 at 11:51 am

    No Hippie you are wrong….HCR is ARMAGEDDON!!!

    John “Coppertone” Boehner says so, and RNC Chairman Steele agrees.

    We will have to ask Tex when exactly the Rapture is supposed to start?

    Y’know, there were people that said the same thing about other critical pieces of legislation (see Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act, school desegregation, etc.) that would destroying our nation. Most of them, back in the day, would have strung Mr. Steele up from a tree at the earliest opportunity. Some of the SAME people that are saying this about HCR, now belong in the SAME party as Chairman Steele now that I think about it.

    For most, it is empty rhetoric, the spouting and fuming of narrow-minded, ignorant, bigoted individuals, without a shred of decency to their souls. Now these extremist idiots talk of “targeting” or “aiming” at congressional seats they think are ripe for “picking off” in 2010 (includes the map complete with crosshairs over Democrat names). These conservatives are frothing at the mouth and Boehner, Steele, and Tex are the ones whipping them up into a lather. These extremist are posting tweets that included a call for assassination, as well as this line: “We’ll surely get over a bullet 2 Barack Obama’s head!” or Tex’s line: “a terrorist sits in the White House”.

    THIS is what treason looks like you fuckwits. That word you toss around so easily when you apply it to, say, advocating for health care reform? Yeah, you got it wrong. Treason means calling for the assassination of the democratically elected leader of this country because you just don’t like the color of his skin or what comes out of his mouth. Because you are calling for the demise of the concepts upon which this country you profess to love was founded.

    Righteous anger is one thing. Manufacturing fear, dare I say terror, is another, but these wingnuts are advocating armed insurrection mixed with religious connotations.

    There is true danger with this rhetoric.

    Ponder that, fuckers.

  • 45. Tex Taylor  |  March 24, 2010 at 11:55 am

    Gorilla,

    The right wing loves to claim that “the people” reject this bill because it is too liberal – when in fact the opposite is true.

    – hp

    Big boasts from the secluded world of academia. Tell him to make sure he sticks around come November so he can teach us a lesson. :wink:

    I think I here the same bold talk before Massachusetts, and that was before health care was passed.

  • 46. Tex Taylor  |  March 24, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    THIS is what treason looks like you fuckwits.

    It’s your sworn duty to come and get us Rambo. :twisted:

    That word you toss around so easily when you apply it to, say, advocating for health care reform? Yeah, you got it wrong. Treason means calling for the assassination of the democratically elected leader of this country because you just don’t like the color of his skin or what comes out of his mouth. Because you are calling for the demise of the concepts upon which this country you profess to love was founded.

    Anybody smart knows the worst thing that could happen is assassination of Bongo – that would leave us with Joe “Fucking Big Deal” Biden or Pelosi, heaven forbid! Hopefully, nobody is that dumb.

    Righteous anger is one thing. Manufacturing fear, dare I say terror, is another, but these wingnuts are advocating armed insurrection mixed with religious connotations.

    ** GUFFAW ** Well, you been cruising for a fight for at least ten years now Wally. Be careful what you wish for, I guess. Besides, we’re trying to usher in the rapture, remember. It will leave you stuck with Armageddon. Gird up your loins sport.

    There is true danger with this rhetoric.

    Maybe. A calculated risk worth taking if it finally summarily defeats you. At the very least, its worked you up to the point of CVA and that’s a good thing.

    Ponder that, fuckers.

    Everyday! :lol:

  • 47. Alfie  |  March 24, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    Curator-would you concede that people on the center right have any grounds for righteous anger?

  • 48. hippieprof  |  March 24, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    Big boasts from the secluded world of academia. Tell him to make sure he sticks around come November so he can teach us a lesson. :wink:

    Not a boast Tex – just an honest look at the data. In the CNN poll released just Monday 52 percent of people supported the bill that was passed OR WANTED SOMETHING MORE LIBERAL. This is substantially more than the 43 percent who opposed the bill because it was TOO liberal. Other recent polls show the same thing.

    Read the detailed argument on my blog if you like.

    – hp

  • 49. Tex Taylor  |  March 24, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    [I think I here the same bold talk before Massachusetts,]

    I don’t know what this is? That wasn’t even close.

    I think I “HEARD” the same bold talk before Massachusetts.

  • 50. hippieprof  |  March 24, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    Tex said….

    What I’d like to see is how easily you support NAFTA after we fee you to death for our roads, tax you to death for our ports, treat you like Libya.

    How many good deep water ports are you expecting to have there Tex? I count zero on the west coast – so trade with Japan and China are pretty much out.

    You will have one good port in the Gulf (Houston) and none on the east coast. I suppose if you get Virginia to go with you you would have a good deep water port on the Atlantic – but I don’t think you will get Virginia.

    For that matter I doubt you will get Florida or Georgia or North Carolina either. Maybe South Carolina – but it doesn’t have any good ports. You will probably get Mississippi and Alabama – real cream, of the crop there.

    You will certainly have a surplus of food production – though I am not entirely sure where you will plan to sell it. We have some pretty good agricultural areas here in the blue states – and you won’t be getting any of the swing states like Missouri or Iowa.

    Good luck with that.
    ;)

    – hp

  • 51. Alfie  |  March 24, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    Hippie if you’re out justto rattle Tex’s cage so be it but…
    Out of all the states the one that could actually stand alone is Texas. It is also true that Texas is probably one of only two states that if they did secede the rest of the USA would go to its knees.

  • 52. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  March 24, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    THIS is what treason looks like you fuckwits.
    Treason means calling for the assassination of the democratically elected leader of this country because you just don’t like the color of his skin or what comes out of his mouth.

    Really? ‘Cause I’m pretty sure that treason is the ONLY crime that is actually defined in the Constituion, and it doesn’t say what you want it to say.

    Article 3
    Section 3 – Treason

    Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

    The Congress shall have power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

    But thanks for playing, half-wit.

  • 53. hippieprof  |  March 24, 2010 at 12:24 pm

    Alfie asked…. Curator-would you concede that people on the center right have any grounds for righteous anger?

    Alfie – I will answer that.

    No, you don’t.

    As I have been saying elsewhere on this thread you guys don’t actually represent the views of the American people, much as you like to think you do. The data show that. The majority of Americans want this bill or something more liberal.

    To make matters worse, you guys intentionally chose an obstructionist strategy as a political play. Don’t try to claim otherwise. DeMint and others stated that publicly. Had you actually come to the bargaining table in good faith I suspect you would have been able to get some stuff you wanted into the bill. I suspect you could have had tort reform, for example. But, instead you decided to block everything in an attempt to make Obama fail.

    It didn’t work. You have nobody to blame but yourselves for choosing that strategy, and so you have no basis for that anger.

    – hp

  • 54. Tex Taylor  |  March 24, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    Hippie,

    Not a boast Tex – just an honest look at the data. In the CNN poll released just Monday 52 percent of people supported the bill that was passed OR WANTED SOMETHING MORE LIBERAL. This is substantially more than the 43 percent who opposed the bill because it was TOO liberal. Other recent polls show the same thing.

    Read the detailed argument on my blog if you like.

    Pure spin, pure propaganda.

    You, of all people if you are what you say, should know that anybody can skew a test to achieve a desired result. They beat us up for two years when I took two classes of operation’s research to teach us how. It’s the oldest trick in the book and sheer snakeoil.

    I’ll make this very simple, without so much as asking one opinion and simply applying a little common sense. From above, which all libs conveniently ignored:

    (1) Half the country wants Obamacare declared unconstitutional at this minute.
    (2) If the bill so good, why the multitude of bribes to get it passed?
    (3) Nancy Pelosi’s 11% approval rating.
    (4) Harry Reid’s 8% approval rating.
    (5) Obama’s 43% approval rating
    (6) Congressional approval rating of 14%.
    (7) 38 states either have filed or planned to file legal challenges of a similar sort.

    You might survive for a time, but this facade is all yours. This is the first time this type of far reaching legislation has been done without bipartisanship, or debate, or any real discussion, behind closed doors with the most dubious of procedures, and Republicans were very wise to distance themselves from it. The was thrust upon a very unwilling public. I don’t think you’ve seen any reaction like you will see – you’re just experiencing the class clowns like me at present. The rage that is building is palpable and I believe you are smart enough to know it.

    The law doesn’t even address basic issues, was underhanded to say the least including bribery, is not nearly as popular as you want us to believe, and I predict will go down as the single worst piece of legislation in U.S. history as it bankrupts the country. It is inevitable it will fail and cause great misery. Repealing it may prove to late. In this case, Rush Limbaugh was right. America is hanging by a thread.

    You think I want to distance myself from you because I dislike you. Not in the least. This is a matter of long-term survival. Because yesterday, your affiliated party signed a death warrant and in essence, declared war. It’s only a matter of time before this house-of-cards collapses, whether in November, or 2012, or even after Obama is gone. You have not witnessed the problems or the frustration yet.

    Only this time, me getting to say “I Told You So” is not enough.

  • 55. Tex Taylor  |  March 24, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    I really need to either slow down or proofread.

    “Too” late…and other assorted typos.

  • 56. Alfie  |  March 24, 2010 at 12:29 pm

    Hippie I don’t buy it and am in no mood to discuss it with you. I’ll take your short answer and disagree. If I get some time and motivation I’ll school you on exactly why we have the right.
    Also…top 10 usa ports by tonnage….4 of them in Texas

  • 57. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  March 24, 2010 at 12:46 pm

    Had you actually come to the bargaining table in good faith I suspect you would have been able to get some stuff you wanted into the bill.

    You still don’t get it. It wasn’t for the feds to be legislating at all, and it certainly wasn’t for them to assume that their intrusion into my medical records and bank accounts were anything resembling lawful.

  • 58. hippieprof  |  March 24, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    Alfie said…. Hippie if you’re out just to rattle Tex’s cage so be it but…

    Of course I am rattling Tex’s chain – it is great sport….
    ;)

  • 59. Tex Taylor  |  March 24, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    Hippie, :smile:

    I know you’re not so gullible. Spoon fed with leftist propaganda probably your entire life, compounded by academia, as you set in your offices surrounded by speculation masquerading as theory that has dulled your thinking and your imagination. I’m just being “nuanced” here.

    First, this isn’t just Texas; but that is another day. I’ll give you a hint. You need to review your ports from Pensacola, FL, to Brownsville, TX. And I am relatively sure I understand the mindset of most Southerners better than you.

    But I am way ahead of the game and just pulling your chain. I’m giving thought to 5-7 years out; 10 years out and planning accordingly. Back to the poker table analogy – we just were handed out chips with a cheating dealer. I’m not cashing in and going home without playing a few hands first.

    Besides, if you were as sure in your boasts as you would like us to believe, these arguments would be falling on deaf ears. All of you Democrats are on the defensive for the first time in a long time and now you got to shuck and jive. It’s the way the game is played.

    In less than 48 hours, I’ve been called traitor, wing nut, religious extremist, Timothy McVeigh, Hannibal Lector, Nazi, fascist, and a whole host of vile pejoratives. Yet, I remain reasonably assured in my confidence. It may not happen as quickly as I would like, but hope and change is in the air – just not the Bomba’s idea of hope and change.

    It is palpable Hippie – really bad vibes are now everywhere, and I think you know it. The parties now divided, the music is being played, and it time to dance.

    Besides, good riddance right?

  • 60. Tex Taylor  |  March 24, 2010 at 12:54 pm

    Arggghhhhhhh…

    Sit/Set. Brevity is not my forte and proofreading my liability. Amazing how I notice errors so easily (after they have been posted).

  • 61. LOL  |  March 24, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    HippieProf and Curator can feel free to answer these questions. too.

    Are you for or against sex offenders recieving Viagra under ObamaCare?

    Should the health insurance mandate apply to illegal immigrants, as they use the same emergency services who’s costs are supposedly driven up by non-insured Americans?

    Also…why do democrats hate children so much? Is it because you can’t get any taxes out of them?

  • 62. LOL  |  March 24, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    “This is a patient’s bill of rights on steroids,” the president said Friday at George Mason University in Virginia. “Starting this year, thousands of uninsured Americans with pre-existing conditions will be able to purchase health insurance, some for the very first time. Starting this year, insurance companies will be banned forever from denying coverage to children with pre-existing conditions.”

    And Saturday, addressing House Democrats as they approached a make-or-break vote on the bill, Obama said, “This year … parents who are worried about getting coverage for their children with pre-existing conditions now are assured that insurance companies have to give them coverage — this year.”

    YOU LIE!

    I guess that’s what happens when you sign shit before you read it.

  • 63. LOL  |  March 24, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    “How many good deep water ports are you expecting to have there Tex? I count zero on the west coast – so trade with Japan and China are pretty much out.”

    If only there were a canal to connect the Pacific Ocean and the Gulf of Mexico.

    Oh wait…..

  • 64. Tex Taylor  |  March 24, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    Hippie, Rutherford, and Curator are living the utopian American Dream – the dreams of no risk and no concern how to pay for it on the premise Benevolent Barack makes good. And like adultery, for a season, it is euphoric. It’s the housing bubble of the American Dream times ten.

    But when this one crashes, pure chaos will ensue. And the only signature on the bottom line will be the pact they made with the devil himself. No blame can be extended. Like the prodigal son, they run home to ask forgiveness – but the fatted calf will be no more and a plate of pig slop provided. :evil:

    All of us have experienced the thrill of purchasing the too expensive car, the too large a home, the burgeoning crush of the maxed credit card. Most learn early and avoid the situation again.

    However, with Hippie, Rutherford, Curator, they will quickly come to the realization as the car carried away by the repo man, the front door padlocked by the sheriff, the freecreditreport dot com shredded for lack of funds, digging through the dipsy dumpster for crumbs, the thrill is gone and they have been duped into purchasing a lie. Much too proud to admit it, they will slither off to never be heard from again.

    Stick around Conservatives. This is one play to watch that will prove quite amusing – but only starting with the Second Act.

  • 65. Tex Taylor  |  March 24, 2010 at 1:50 pm

    A note to Conservative, Libertarians, Reagan Democratics, Tea Partiers, and anybody not calling themselves liberal. Sorry I have to use a pagan blog to do as much but it is the easiest way to contact you.

    Contact your local representatives this week without delay. Without reaffirmation of the 10th amendment, states are rapidly becoming administrative districts of the federal government.

    The Tea Parties need to evolve into a 10th amendment movement. It is time we used the power of limiting the central government. In doing so, we could subject every state official to take a position on this issue.

    Contrary to what the liberals here telling you, it is without dispute for anyone of conscience that that the ultimate source of political power resides within states and its people.

    They need to be taught a very hard lesson this time…

  • 66. hippieprof  |  March 24, 2010 at 2:13 pm

    LOL asks….

    Are you for or against sex offenders recieving Viagra under ObamaCare?

    I don’t particularly want sex offenders getting Viagra. I tend to think castration is a good treatment for sex offenders, as a matter of fact.

    Of course, I suspect that had the GOP come to the table and negotiated in good faith that amendment would have been included in the bill last fall. You know very well that the amendment is being introduced now – during reconciliation – as an attempt to make Democrats look bad and nothing more.

    Here is a suggestion (If you really want to see Viagra for sex offenders outlawed) – instead of trying to add that amendment during reconcilliation – which is nothing more than a political move – put it in a separate, non-reconcilliation bill. I guarantee it will pass unanamously in both houses.

    – hp

  • 67. LOL  |  March 24, 2010 at 2:17 pm

    Why not amend the current bill if you are so confident that it is a good bill that people want?

  • 68. LOL  |  March 24, 2010 at 2:18 pm

    Not brave enough to tackle that illegal immigration question?

  • 69. hippieprof  |  March 24, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    Tex said: (1) Half the country wants Obamacare declared unconstitutional at this minute.

    Tex, where do you get this $hit? How do you reconcile that statement with multiple polls now showing that a majority think passing the bill was a good idea?

    (2) If the bill so good, why the multitude of bribes to get it passed?

    So – congressional deal-making was suddenly invented just for this bill? Tex, you can do better. Lots of deals were cut to get Civil Rights passed too. Guess that makes it a bad bill. Oh – wait – maybe you actually believe that.

    (6) Congressional approval rating of 14%.

    …with democrats generally rated higher.

    (7) 38 states either have filed or planned to file legal challenges of a similar sort.

    Here is an interesting commentary from that by a law professor:

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/03/24/jost.health.bill.challenges/index.html?hpt=T2

    If you don’t have time to read it, the quick summary is that such lawsuits are going nowhere and are nothing more than grandstanding to serve the political aspirations of AGs.

    – hp

  • 70. LOL  |  March 24, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    “Of course, I suspect that had the GOP come to the table and negotiated in good faith that amendment would have been included in the bill last fall. You know very well that the amendment is being introduced now – during reconciliation – as an attempt to make Democrats look bad and nothing more.”

    You can “suspect” all you want.

    I suspect that you suspected that with the adoption of this bill the practice of denying medical insuarnce to children with preexisting conditions would be a thing of the past. Especially when your president told us all that very thing numerous times.

    But you were wrong, weren’t you?

    Aren’t you the least bit peeved that you were misled?

  • 71. hippieprof  |  March 24, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    LOL asked….

    Why not amend the current bill if you are so confident that it is a good bill that people want?

    You know the answer to that, LOL, but I will answer in case someone out there doesn’t understand. The amendments being added now are delaying tactics. If the bill is amended during reconciliation it goes back to the house to vote again. If the house changes it again it goes back to the senate. This repeats ad nauseum. If you guys manage to stretch it out long enough nothing gets passed- which of course if your goal to begin with.

    I will say it again. If you seriously want that amendment passed, put it in its own bill. But of course you really don’t care about whether the amendment is passed – you are just trying to kill the bill by delay.

    It is ironic that by delaying reconciliation in hopes of killing the bill the GOP is actually supporting the cornhusker kickback. You go!

    – hp

  • 72. hippieprof  |  March 24, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    LOL asks: Aren’t you the least bit peeved that you were misled?

    So – I haven’t seen this – where was I misled on this? Can you provide a source?

  • 73. hippieprof  |  March 24, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    Oh – I just saw this. Guess your civil war may actually be starting, Tex – though it seems to be incorporating the techniques of al Quida more than those of Robert E. Lee.

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/34934.html

    In addition to this we have seen lots of assasination threats on twitter and on conservative blogs. Do this a few more times, Tex, and the GOP will never win another election outside of the deep south.

    – hp

  • 74. Curator  |  March 24, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    @LOL

    Under the new law just passed, illegal immigrants are not entitled to health care. That means they will continue to get care the way they always have, showing up at hospitals for emergency treatment. This costs you and me about $4.3 billion a year.

  • 75. LOL  |  March 24, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    @HippieProf: “How do you reconcile that statement with multiple polls now showing that a majority think passing the bill was a good idea?”

    Which polls supports your statement? I can cite multiple polls to the contrary.

    This Gallup poll only supports that a plurality think passing this bill was a good idea. Surely you know the difference between a majority and a plurality.

    This Bloomberg poll doesn’t support your claim, either. You only get “about 4 in 10.” That’s not a majority.

    You can’t even drag a majority of support out of this CBS poll, which has a tradition of being pretty skewed in who it polls. In fact, this poll shows that those who disapprove of this bill hold the plurality over those who think passing this bill was a good idea.

  • 76. hippieprof  |  March 24, 2010 at 2:53 pm

    LOL – and again you are conveniently ignoring the fact that a fair proportion of the objection to the bill came from the left – because it wasn’t liberal enough.

    Tex claimed that half of Americans want to see the bill declared unconstitutional right now. That is absolutely unsupportable.

    – hp

  • 77. Tex Taylor  |  March 24, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    Joseph “Hippie” Goebbels,

    Oh – I just saw this. Guess your civil war may actually be starting, Tex – though it seems to be incorporating the techniques of al Quida more than those of Robert E. Lee.

    In addition to this we have seen lots of assasination threats on twitter and on conservative blogs. Do this a few more times, Tex, and the GOP will never win another election outside of the deep south.

    I have but two words (take your pick): Al Sharpton, Tawana Brawley, Duke Lacrosse, Crystal Mangum.

    Like the pap on your blog of desired and deserved outcomes, much like the slang “It’s Bush’s fault”, the excuses of hearsay, racism and hate mongering now ring hollow. Ain’t going to work Joseph.

    As a “friend” just trying to help out, if I were you, I would start dreaming up some excuses for the environment of broken job promises and deficit control for your blog while you are at it. You’ll need them come summer. Or have you forgotten?

    See you in November. See you in 2012.

  • 78. LOL  |  March 24, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    “Under the new law just passed, illegal immigrants are not entitled to health care. That means they will continue to get care the way they always have, showing up at hospitals for emergency treatment. This costs you and me about $4.3 billion a year.”

    Illegal immigrants are not entitled to health care or government subsidized health care coverage?

    Does this law forbid an insurance company from covering an illegal immigrant that is financially capable of paying for his own coverage?

  • 79. Tex Taylor  |  March 24, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    Tex claimed that half of Americans want to see the bill declared unconstitutional right now. That is absolutely unsupportable.

    Yet somehow attorney generals from thirteen states have sued or will have sued for its unconstitutionality within days of its inception, with more in the works. Do you believe you have the states’ pulse, better than they do hippie?

    Are you still wearing your ruby slippers? Keep them close.

  • 80. LOL  |  March 24, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    “LOL – and again you are conveniently ignoring the fact that a fair proportion of the objection to the bill came from the left – because it wasn’t liberal enough. ”

    Does that mean you are unable to support your previously unqualified claim that a majority of Americans are in favor of the passage of this legislation, and that you are now moving the goalposts to suit your argument?

  • 81. Curator  |  March 24, 2010 at 3:05 pm

    The Constitution guarantees the right to dissenting opinion. Calling for armed resistance, or rebellion against the government is sedition. I stand corrected. Still…saying that a terrorist sits in the White House, continued fear mongering to lather up the right-wing lunatic fringe, trafficking in hate speech that speaks to the crazy fringe, calling for blood in the streets, is nothing but trolling for assassins. Let’s not forget this bumper sticker promoted by the conservative Right. “May his days be few; may another take his place of leadership; May his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.”

    I have a question for you conservatives…. How does it feel to be equated to the anti-war left and their Kill Bush hate speech? Tex is just as traitorous as they were, but as our history shows there are and always will be anti-war activist, http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2010/03/20/national/w134343D49.DTL

    …versus the right-wing haters and fear mongers like Tex who want to destroy the President for wanting health care for those who can’t afford it.

    Why did the anti-war left hate President Bush,…uh…hello…there was a war on. Why did Cindy Sheehan just get arrested outside the White House yelling “Arrest that war criminal!” referring to Obama…. uh…hello.. we are still at war.

    There is a BIG difference in moderates like me who saw justified opposition against President Bush’s war of opportunity against a country that did not attack us, as did over half the country I might add, and President Obama, who like I said wants affordable health care for Americans. Are the two even equal? Unprovoked warfare in Iraq with 4700 dead American troops, versus affordable health care for all Americans. You know it would be one thing if President Obama yanked all of our troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan, slashed the defense budget in half, and jacked our tax rates up 50% but that is not what he did. He just put affordable health care in reach to 95% of Americans. For that Tex calls him a terrorist!

    Please…

  • 82. LOL  |  March 24, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    “So – I haven’t seen this – where was I misled on this? Can you provide a source?”

    The link in #61 and the quotes in #62 from that same article.

    Congress and the American people were told direct lies by this president.

    Some of us are used to it. But I’d think you folks would get annoyed after a while.

  • 83. LOL  |  March 24, 2010 at 3:13 pm

    “You know the answer to that, LOL, but I will answer in case someone out there doesn’t understand. The amendments being added now are delaying tactics. If the bill is amended during reconciliation it goes back to the house to vote again. If the house changes it again it goes back to the senate. This repeats ad nauseum. If you guys manage to stretch it out long enough nothing gets passed- which of course if your goal to begin with.”

    Shit doesn’t go into effect until 2014 and you are worried about “delaying tactics”?

  • 84. Alfie  |  March 24, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    I will say it again. If you seriously want that amendment passed, put it in its own bill Would’ve been nice if nationalizing college ed was afforded the same civics lesson.

  • 85. Tex Taylor  |  March 24, 2010 at 3:19 pm

    You know Hippie, sometimes you guys really can’t see the forest for the trees. I have warned you often to be careful for what you wish for, and yet you refuse to even contemplate.

    May I tell you without equivocation that nothing you can say or do changes the most obvious fact. That unlike the Civil Rights Bill, which by the way is an Obamanation to even mention that in the same breath as this garbage just passed, nor Social Security, nor Medicare, were approved without overwhelming bipartisan support. You do not believe me, reread your history and the results.

    What you and your useful idiots, both representatives and head have accomplished by despicable means and perversion of process, is undercut the will of a large percentage of the American people. You now operating under the guise of “rule” rather than “govern”. You and your party are an anathema to the very statues this country constructed.

    And I can not believe, I refuse to believe, that some time soon, the citizens of the U.S. are not going to stand up and hold not only Obama and his henchmen, but everyone of you that provided cover for this sham, accountable for our great misfortune. It may take a little while – but it will happen.

  • 86. Tex Taylor  |  March 24, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    Curator,

    If you do indeed believe I am a traitor and you believe you have definitive proof, it is your solemn oath as a serviceman and your responsibility as citizen to report me to the nearest authority to have me arrested.

    I’ll await the knock on my door, or in the Chicago ways you have adopted, to have my door kicked in, clubs and dogs in tow. But at least be brave enough to accompany them so I can meet my accuser. :wink:

  • 87. Curator  |  March 24, 2010 at 3:25 pm

    @LOL

    About 35 percent of the 11 million have health insurance through their employer. I say if they want to participate under the new law then we should tax them. As it stands right now the bill bars illegal immigrants from receiving federal subsidies to buy health insurance.

  • 88. Alfie  |  March 24, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    Hippie…..
    Compared with 2008, more Americans “conservative” in general, and on issues

    Offered to equally present that polls can say whatever you want and that numbers do not play well with one another.
    I’d also add that there is a Gallup that looks at the immediate after emotions and amongst important voting blocs it’s a negative.
    Things may Frum out but I don’t see any reason for either side to be doing their “happy dance”

  • 89. Alfie  |  March 24, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    Curator you open the door for some interesting chatter. What do we do with the employers who may and probably succeed at securing $$$ for offering insurance to workers?

  • 90. Tex Taylor  |  March 24, 2010 at 3:37 pm

    Curator the “moderate”, :roll:

    One other question and I expect no answer because you always avoid my questioning. You don’t debate. You rant. I gave you a very civil, albeit long answer and question yesterday, and you have not as much as addressed it. Is there no quid pro quo in your book?

    Why are you not delighted? Why are you not celebrating? Why are you not dancing in the streets over your new found freedoms, authority and power?

    You tell me you won. Your reaction is quite strange for the victor.

  • 91. Tex Taylor  |  March 24, 2010 at 3:39 pm

    Here’s my new solution to the problem. I suggest millions do likewise.

    I will refuse to purchase health insurance and pay the fine to the IRS to receive the goodies.

    Liberals never did understand the concept of you can’t push a rope. But they try mightily.

  • 92. Tex Taylor  |  March 24, 2010 at 3:51 pm

    Another liberal stronghold sliding into the abyss. Patience Tex. Patience. God does work in mysterious ways.

    Newspapers’ annual ad revenue has now fallen by nearly $22 billion, or 44 percent, since 2006.

    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9EL6ISG1&show_article=1

    I’m sorry Lord, but I can’t help but gloat.

  • 93. Tex Taylor  |  March 24, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    My heart bleeds purple rain drops. But unfortunately, another liberal stronghold sliding into the deep. Patience Tex. Patience. God does work in mysterious ways.

    Newspapers’ annual ad revenue has now fallen by nearly $22 billion, or 44 percent, since 2006.

    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9EL6ISG1&show_article=1

  • 94. Tex Taylor  |  March 24, 2010 at 3:53 pm

    Ouch…sorry “R”. It told me it was a duplicate. Guess they were right. :eek:

  • 95. Tex Taylor  |  March 24, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    Another expert says the obvious:

    Health Care Law Signals America in Decline

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/36013573

    GIve us more bread and circuses, Caesar Obama!

  • 96. hippieprof  |  March 24, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    Tex said: May I tell you without equivocation that nothing you can say or do changes the most obvious fact. That unlike the Civil Rights Bill, which by the way is an Obamanation to even mention that in the same breath as this garbage just passed, nor Social Security, nor Medicare, were approved without overwhelming bipartisan support. You do not believe me, reread your history and the results.

    Just before the house vote Stoney Hoyer was quoted as saying that Republicans were acting like the guy who killed his parents and then wanted sympathy because he was an orphan.

    That is in fact exactly what you are doing. You guys were invited to the table – you could have had a bipartisan bill – but instead you chose obstructionism as a political strategy. You chose NOT to seek bipartisanship, so we were forced to go it alone. Now you are crying because we called your bluff on your bad decision.

    Folks on the left are not the only ones saying this. Reasonable voices on the right are even saying this – and don’t for a second claim that Frum is a RINO.

    Democrats would have been fools to let obstructionist Republicans kill the bill. Start over meant “don’t do anything” and you know it, Tex.

    – hp

  • 97. hippieprof  |  March 24, 2010 at 5:15 pm

    LOL…. Does that mean you are unable to support your previously unqualified claim that a majority of Americans are in favor of the passage of this legislation, and that you are now moving the goalposts to suit your argument?

    Indeed sometimes you induce me to LOL.

    You are correct – I spoke loosely and said majority instead of plurality. I know better and need to be more careful.

    However, you are the one moving the goal posts. My original point was to counter Tex’s absurd claim that half of America wants to see bill declared unconstitutional right now. The data I cited first counter that claim regardless of whether it is a majority of a plurality. The additional data I cited also counter Tex’s claim. There are plenty of additional data out there as well.

  • 98. hippieprof  |  March 24, 2010 at 5:26 pm

    LOL said…. The link in #61 and the quotes in #62 from that same article. Congress and the American people were told direct lies by this president.

    LOLing again….

    Did you actually read the article you posted?

    Here is another quote, from an official with HHS:

    “To ensure that there is no ambiguity on this point, the secretary of HHS is preparing to issue regulations next month making it clear that the term ‘pre-existing exclusion’ applies to both a child’s access to a plan and his or her benefits once he or she is in the plan for all plans newly sold in this country six months from today.”

    So – we have a spokesperson for the house energy and commerce committee interpreting the law differently from HHS. It is pretty hard to call a difference in interpretation a deliberate lie. Besides, I would go with HHS because they are the ones issuing the regulations, are they not?

    Why are you always so willing to jump to the conclusion that a difference of opinion constitutes a lie?

    – hp

  • 99. Alfie  |  March 24, 2010 at 5:44 pm

    You chose NOT to seek bipartisanship, so we were forced to go it alone. Now you are crying because we called your bluff on your bad decision.
    That’s the funniest thing I’ve seen in this thread today.

  • 100. hippieprof  |  March 24, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    Alfie said…. That’s the funniest thing I’ve seen in this thread today.

    People on the left are not the only ones saying it, Alfie. Have you actually read the Frum “Waterloo” article? Before calling him a RINO you might want to read it. It is pretty insightful – and written by a guy with serious conservative street cred.

    In case you missed it here is the link:

    http://www.frumforum.com/waterloo

    – hp

  • 101. hippieprof  |  March 24, 2010 at 6:02 pm

    I just found this more recent article on Frum’s forum. I challenge anyone here to claim he isn’t really a conservative. I also challenge anyone here to say what is wrong with his analysis.

    http://www.frumforum.com/welcome-to-ff-party-crashers

  • 102. Alfie  |  March 24, 2010 at 6:06 pm

    First of all I made no reference to Frum. I would not call Frum a RINO.I would call him a neo-con though. I have read many things by Frum as well as his book. I’ve also seen his allies on the Frum Forum disagree with his analysis.
    My comment was aimed at your remark regards bipartisanship.
    YOUR side didn’t like Baucus yet that is who the GOP spent time with trying to work.
    YOUR side had a focus and it didn’t matter what the GOP or a number of Dems did or tried to say.
    For you to say what you say with such great conviction shows how dishonest you are.

  • 103. hippieprof  |  March 24, 2010 at 6:10 pm

    My comment was aimed at your remark regards bipartisanship.

    Alfie, the reason I specifically mentioned the Frum article is that he, like me, lays the blame on failed bipartisanship on your side. Take a look if you haven’t already.

    – hp

  • 104. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  March 24, 2010 at 6:18 pm

    I love this notion that if it hasn’t gone viral on Youtube then it didn’t happpen. I for one believe the people who said they were slurred. I don’t need a video to prove it. Again when conservatives are confronted with uncomfortable facts they say “it’s not true” and that’s the sum total of their defense.

    http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2010/03/media-fraud-more-proof-that-leftist-media-lied-about-racist-attacks-on-black-reps-while-they-ignored-vulgar-attacks-by-lib-politicians/

  • 105. Tex Taylor  |  March 24, 2010 at 7:23 pm

    Hippie,

    Useful idiot…I continue to be less impressed by the day.

    That is in fact exactly what you are doing. You guys were invited to the table – you could have had a bipartisan bill – but instead you chose obstructionism as a political strategy. You chose NOT to seek bipartisanship, so we were forced to go it alone. Now you are crying because we called your bluff on your bad decision.

    Another bald-faced lie from the pack of liars. There was nothing about the bill, and if are saying so, you are party to the lying.

    You rammed it down our throats, you live with the consequences. And we shall see whose bluff is called before long mofo.

  • 106. Tex Taylor  |  March 24, 2010 at 7:26 pm

    Frum…another polite Conservative wishing to sleep with the enemy.

    http://minx.cc/?post=299799

    Political opportunist and horse’s ass. Take him too HIppie – you can have him.

    Before we clean your clock, we need to clean up our own house first, no doubt.

  • 107. Tex Taylor  |  March 24, 2010 at 7:32 pm

    Don’t give an inch to these douche bags. I say over half of the citizens want this piece of shit repealed and I’ll stick by words. Screw these polls you keep dredging up – I know better.

    You still aren’t capable of putting 2 + 2 together, are you? You like the approval rating of your heroes? How about Fancy Nancy dragging in at the whopping 11%? The lowest of low.

    I do love the sting of battle.

  • 108. An800lbGorilla  |  March 24, 2010 at 7:53 pm

    Funny, the libs refused to deal with a single point raised. How shocking… yawn…

    http://blip.tv/play/hJNRgc_7JAI%2Em4v

  • 109. hippieprof  |  March 24, 2010 at 7:54 pm

    Tex said: Don’t give an inch to these douche bags. I say over half of the citizens want this piece of shit repealed and I’ll stick by words. Screw these polls you keep dredging up – I know better.

    You are being sarcastic right? Seriously – if I was trying to write a sarcastic parody of a “true believer” on the right I would put exactly those words in his mouth…. data be damned! I know the truth!

    Know what? Pelosi’s ratings will be improving, as will Obama’s. In fact, Obama’s already have. Both of them took some hits from the left because they didn’t get things done. Now they have gotten something done. Ratings will improve.

    — hp

  • 110. Tex Taylor  |  March 24, 2010 at 7:55 pm

    Face it Hippie – you’re the GM worker, a protected class, doomed to its self-made destruction. We now see “liberal fascism” at work.

    All of this is for selfish interests.

  • 111. Tex Taylor  |  March 24, 2010 at 7:57 pm

    You’re a propagandist Hippie – nothing more. The initial act was a rouse.

    The only way to settle this argument will come in November. And I’ll assure this time I will match you word for word in the battle. The one-sided indoctrination stops now.

  • 112. Tex Taylor  |  March 24, 2010 at 9:01 pm

    If you want something to fire you up good people (that excludes the Leftist), go to Hippie’s blog (it’s painful but do it one time anyway) and read of the incredible arrogance of your opponents, including your host.

    It will help to alleviate the guilt when we mummify the bodies. :wink:

  • 113. Tex Taylor  |  March 24, 2010 at 10:59 pm

    Inciting violence should land you in slammer. Nutjob Mike Vanderboegh should be first to go.

    Tea Party folks have been demonized relentlessly for a reason. A fascist government needs to focus public anger on a specific target. It utilizes its lackeys to carry out its objectives.

    Rutherford, smear merchants like you, Wally, and the Hippie take yourselves far too seriously to engage in self-examination.

    From the vernacular and frequent use of tea “baggers” to wing nuts, and every thing in between, you would be wise to reflect before making demands of the slammer.

    I would tell the three stooges they would have quite a future at MSNBC, if it had a future.

  • 114. Curator  |  March 24, 2010 at 11:35 pm

    @Tex

    I’m three months into a year long pursuit of my masters degree, thus have little time to monitor this blog. Sorry for the hit and run but it can’t be helped. I would like to take this time to thank all the conservatives on this blog who’s taxes are going to pay for my graduate degree. Gotta love the GI Bill.

  • 115. Dead Rabbit  |  March 24, 2010 at 11:39 pm

    I’m told I can’t have my country back.

    I know the mocking and the gloating boils down to something actually apolitical.

    I’ve done it before myself, so don’t take this as Rabbit finger wagging.

    I’m convinced this political shit online is a bizarre mix of dungeon and dragons spiked with misplaced aggression.

    Exactly what spurs this I do not know.

    Perhaps Rutherford is incapable of fucking his wife. He comes on here to fuck us.

    I’m done with this internet shit.

    Rutherford, I agree with your blog. There is nothing for us to remotely talk about.

    If and when the blood spills on the street maybe you will shoot me dead. There are millions of Rabbits you know.

    I do know this. We have entered into a new era.

    Discourse is dead.

    Rutherford can disagree why people like me feel this way all he wants. Lets pretend he is correct. It doesn’t matter anymore.

    We feel the constitution has been trampled and that we have reached a point of no return.

    My reality: An economically unsustainable fruit cake with a cloying frosting made up of the government forcing the Rabbit to buy stuff off a private enterprise. 16,000 IRS dogs have been unleashed to make me eat it.

    This is no longer a debate. It can’t be.

    I will probably return to the site a few times to see any response to my little rant, the internet is addictive in that way.

    But I’m done, man.

    Done with talking.

    I suspect there will be civil disobedience on a scale we haven’t seen since the 60′s. That’s if we’re lucky.

    Give it time. This clusterfuck might take a few years to ferment.

    Political purgatory reins supreme today.

    Keep treading on us and we will show you hell.

  • 116. Tex Taylor  |  March 24, 2010 at 11:56 pm

    I would like to take this time to thank all the conservatives on this blog who’s taxes are going to pay for my graduate degree. Gotta love the GI Bill.

    Yet you seem to have plenty of time hanging around the blog. The problem to my questions are, you have no clever retort so you must resort to running and hiding.

    Congratulations on the pursuit Wally. You’ll find it gigantic waste of time and effort when you are through. :roll:

    But it still won’t upgrade your doing nothing job fruitcake and you’ll be left holding another sheet of paper without hope like all those accreditations you received, thanks in large part to the job market Obama helped to create. Karma’s a bitch, ain’t it?

    Face it sport – you can go for the Piled HIgher and Deeper and you still won’t amount to much. Degrees without challenge are a dime a dozen.

    Glad I could be of assistance from the experience, where my company paid for mine. :wink:

    Must be a hell of a master’s degree than one can receive in a year? Going for the big on-line, hey?

  • 117. Rutherford  |  March 25, 2010 at 1:44 am

    I’ve read through about 60 comments as my nightcap tonight. The comment that thrilled me the most was that Tex saw my tweet about Mike Vanderboegh, a nutjob currently taking in social security payments while he rails against the government. Dude is encouraging folks to throw bricks through windows.

    So here’s the deal. One thing separates legitimate political activism from plain old criminality … and that is violence or the unambiguous threat of it. I want Vanderboegh to be the first of these criminals to go to jail and behind him I want to see a nice line of brick throwers follow him into the cell.

    We live in a civilized country. We have legal means for grievances to be heard. When the law is broken, your ass belongs in jail. I encourage every citizen on Twitter of any political persuasion who cares about unnecessary violence in this country to tweet about it and use the hashtag

    #jailVanderboeghNow

    That’s all for tonight. Hippie and Curator … thank you for putting up the good fight in my absence.

  • 118. Tex Taylor  |  March 25, 2010 at 2:00 am

    Remember these words Rutherford as it is our history…

    Shall we try argument? Sir, we have been trying that for the last ten years. Have we anything new to offer upon the subject? Nothing. We have held the subject up in every light of which it is capable; but it has been all in vain. Shall we resort to entreaty and humble supplication? What terms shall we find which have not been already exhausted? Let us not, I beseech you, sir, deceive ourselves. Sir, we have done everything that could be done, to avert the storm which is now coming on. We have petitioned; we have remonstrated; we have supplicated; we have prostrated ourselves before -the White House, the Senate and the House of representatives-, and have implored -their- interposition to arrest the tyrannical hands of the – others-. Our petitions have been slighted; our remonstrances have produced additional violence and insult; our supplications have been disregarded; and we have been spurned, with contempt, from -the White House, the Senate and the House of Representatives-. In vain, after these things, may we indulge the fond hope of peace and reconciliation. There is no longer any room for hope. If we wish to be free if we mean to preserve inviolate those inestimable privileges for which we have been so long contending if we mean not basely to abandon the noble struggle in which we have been so long engaged, and which we have pledged ourselves never to abandon until the glorious object of our contest shall be obtained, we must fight! I repeat it, sir, we must fight! An appeal to arms and to the God of Hosts is all that is left us!

    Looks like the “nutjob” wasn’t the first to suggest grabbing a weapon. Like Rabbit, I have grown tired of this boring echo chamber. There is nothing further to discuss or to be gained – see you in November.

  • 119. Curator  |  March 25, 2010 at 7:25 am

    There is nothing further to discuss or to be gained – see you in November.

    Bye

  • 120. hippieprof  |  March 25, 2010 at 8:04 am

    Tex said: The only way to settle this argument will come in November. And I’ll assure this time I will match you word for word in the battle. The one-sided indoctrination stops now.

    Tex, I have said many times that getting HCR done is worth losing both houses in November – so don’t go crowing in case that happens.

    I am curious about your specific predictions for November, though, so we can establish exactly what you are expecting.

    I think the Democrats will have somewhere in the neighborhood of 54 or 55 seats in the senate (counting Lieberman). The house will be closer – you in fact may take control of the house by a seat or two – but either way it will be close.

    Of course, the economy will be the real story. If the economy is substantially improved Democrats will take control. If the economy gets worse, you indeed will take control. Health care will be a distant memory – especially since HCR will not have resulted in Armageddon, as so many of you like to claim.

    – hp

  • 121. hippieprof  |  March 25, 2010 at 8:07 am

    Tex said:

    Useful idiot…I continue to be less impressed by the day.

    Tex, you seem to suffer from the illusion that I somehow crave your approval…. ;)

  • 122. hippieprof  |  March 25, 2010 at 8:11 am

    Tex said……

    Frum…another polite Conservative wishing to sleep with the enemy.

    Any of you can answer this…..

    Is it actually possible for someone on the right to actually constructively criticize the far right with out being attacked – called a “RINO” or a “polite conservative” as Tex does here? The far right seems totally unable to accept constructive criticism from within its own party.

    That total lack of self-reflection will eventually create some problems, I suspect.

    – hp

  • 123. hippieprof  |  March 25, 2010 at 8:40 am

    Rabbit said….

    If and when the blood spills on the street maybe you will shoot me dead. There are millions of Rabbits you know…… I suspect there will be civil disobedience on a scale we haven’t seen since the 60’s. That’s if we’re lucky.

    Let me give you guys some advice.

    Take a brief break from and calm down. You just suffered a difficult defeat. Of course you are angry. But get over it. Calls for violence and extreme civil disobedience are a serious over-reaction. The world is not ending tomorrow.

    I shouldn’t even be telling you this – because the crazier you act (up to the point of people actually being hurt – which is a real worry) the better it is for my side. We would love nothing more than to be able to marginalize you as a bunch of crazies. You can help us do that by in fact acting crazy.

    – hp

  • 124. Alfie  |  March 25, 2010 at 11:54 am

    HP 122
    Yes
    HP123
    There is a major major minority,basically lone wolf scenarios statistically speaking going over the edge regards violent acts/outbursts so I’d bounce your calm down advice to those on the Left as well. The GOP has spoken from the floor of the House regards behaviour etc.

  • 125. Alfie  |  March 25, 2010 at 11:59 am

    Also let me touch on two other points.
    First to Curator and the GI Bill comment. I don’t know if you meant that from a political position but if you did it’s weak and holds absolutely zero value in comparison discussion ala HCR.

    Second terror,the Right,Tea Partiers etc.The Administration to a lesser degree but definitely the Congress have a severe credibility gap regards this all. Major Hassan not a terrorist but some demented douche flying his plane into the IRS or throwing a rock at a house=yes?!:?!
    Threatening letters via fax or traceable email=severe issue?!?
    !?!
    Get a freakin’ grip will ya!

  • 126. hippieprof  |  March 25, 2010 at 12:17 pm

    There is a major major minority,basically lone wolf scenarios statistically speaking going over the edge regards violent acts/outbursts so I’d bounce your calm down advice to those on the Left as well

    Alfie, I hope you are right. I still worry, though. Both Tex and DR have suggested violence on this very blog – perhaps not quite to the point of advocating it – but very close. I am amazed at some of the stuff I see coming across twitter and that I see on other blogs.

    Maybe the internet attracts crazies (who’da thought?). If the internet is representative of the general population, though, it seems like this really isn’t such a small minority after all.

    – hp

  • 127. Rutherford  |  March 25, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    Alfie fails to see when “several isolated incidents” add up to a pattern. We don’t need to label it terrorism to know that it’s wrong and needs prosecution.

    The GOP has spoken from the floor of the House regards behaviour etc.

    Yeah they spoke alright …. egging on disruptive onlookers in the House balcony.

    Alfie, you’d best identify yourself as an independent because the GOP has lost its moral center.

  • 128. Alfie  |  March 25, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    Alfie fails to see when “several isolated incidents” add up to a pattern.
    No I don’t because the truth is that such incidents don’t make the grade you seem to have them at.
    As for your other nugget I’ll let the comments stand for themselves. The GOP leadership have stood up and spoken and the Dems have stated they feel it is a good thing.
    That vein on your forehead is about to go in 3…2…1…
    Your rhetoric is no better Rutherford. You are convinced you see something and will be unshakeable in that. Pity.
    Getting hurt or killed by a lone wolf doesn’t make you any less dead,I’ll give you that, but hysteria and rhetoric is pointless.

    Are you preparing a post on Cantors (R) office getting shot at? “OMG the militia is in the streets”!!!!!!
    Too funny.

    No I’ll stand where I am and do some with some new found pride that I didn’t get around to reclassifying myself on the voting rolls.
    Heres a bone to HP
    1.I think repeal is highly unlikely but many changes will happen to HCR as is.Sadly these reform reforms won’t fix it or save our country.Emphasis intentional since we both are gonna feel the pain brother
    2.I think the lawsuits will prove effective on a couple of levels.
    3. The “masses” will not be taking to the streets.There will be some more trouble and with that see #5.
    4. The Dems get schooled come November. Keep the majority but lose effectiveness.Here’s the shocker/teaser. You might actually see 12 months of some bipartisanship. My Magic 8 ball is a little cloudy on that though.
    5. The MSM will continue to damage America.
    6.HCR as it stands now and how it will be come 2012-13 is a sad testimony to the cheapening of the American Spirit. We fall in love with entitlements to our peril.
    7.HCR as it is,is by no means a great thing. It is a fiscal killer plain and simple.
    So I see I’m getting thematically repetitive so I’ll dash out now. Cheers

  • 129. LOL  |  March 25, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    “Of course, the economy will be the real story. If the economy is substantially improved Democrats will take control. If the economy gets worse, you indeed will take control.”

    Since democrats are doing absolutely nothing to help the economy, looks like the GOP will be cleaning up come Nov.

    Hell, Obama can’t stop selling health care reform even after he’s signed the bill.

    MOVE THE FUCK ON, MAN. THERE ARE OTHER ISSUES PLAGUING THIS COUNTRY! GET YOUR VAIN ASS OFF MY TV AND FIX THEM!

  • 130. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  March 25, 2010 at 3:32 pm

    Uh oh. That “conservative” David Frum?

    Yeah, it looks like Frumsie’s gonna need new business cards.

    http://minx.cc/?post=299843

  • 131. hippieprof  |  March 25, 2010 at 10:20 pm

    LOL said….

    Hell, Obama can’t stop selling health care reform even after he’s signed the bill. MOVE THE FUCK ON, MAN. THERE ARE OTHER ISSUES PLAGUING THIS COUNTRY! GET YOUR VAIN ASS OFF MY TV AND FIX THEM!

    I wish Obama didn’t have to keep selling the bill. Perhaps if your side hadn’t engaged in an unprecedented disinformation campaign it wouldn’t be necessary. Unfortunately the majority of Americans believe that the bill contains lots of nasty provisions that just aren’t there. If you spread disinformation unfortunately we are required to counter it.

    – hp

  • 132. hippieprof  |  March 25, 2010 at 10:23 pm

    BiW said: Uh oh. That “conservative” David Frum? Yeah, it looks like Frumsie’s gonna need new business cards.

    BiW, you kinda prove my point, don’t you. It seems like everytime a moderate Republican (and Frum is well right of moderate) criticizes the right wing – boom – they are accused of not being a “real” Republican or a “real” conservative.

    I asked this earlier – is it even possible for a moderate Republican to offer constructive criticism and avoid having someone try to oust him/her from the party?

    – hp

  • 133. Rutherford  |  March 26, 2010 at 12:21 am

    Yeah, it looks like Frumsie’s gonna need new business cards.

    Damn shame too. A friend tells you when you’re going down the wrong road. An idiot kicks the friend to the curb when he’s giving good advice.

    Frum’s firing is just more evidence of how far up their ass the conservatives have their head.

  • 134. Rutherford  |  March 26, 2010 at 12:45 am

    Perhaps if your side hadn’t engaged in an unprecedented disinformation campaign it wouldn’t be necessary.

    HP, proof of this can be found in a profanity laced phone message left on the phone of Dem House Representative Harry Mitchell. The message said in part:

    I love my insurance company and to have you come in between me and my f*cking doctor, I cannot tell you how much I wish a panty bomber would … just come in and blow your f*cking ass place up.

    She was parroting the GOP talking points (lies) and she bought it wholesale.

    No, the fact that the bill is now law does not change the fact that Obama has to correct a lot of disinformation out there.

  • 135. an800lbgorilla  |  March 26, 2010 at 2:54 pm

    R, you ever going to respond to my comments in this thread, or any other?

  • 136. an800lbgorilla  |  March 26, 2010 at 2:59 pm

    President Obama’s fiscal 2011 budget will generate nearly $10 trillion in cumulative budget deficits over the next 10 years, $1.2 trillion more than the administration projected, and raise the federal debt to 90 percent of the nation’s economic output by 2020, the Congressional Budget Office reported Thursday.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/26/cbos-2020-vision-debt-will-rise-to-90-of-gdp/

  • 137. an800lbgorilla  |  March 26, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    Timeline of Major Provisions in the Democrats’ Health Care Package

    http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/UploadedFiles/WM_hcr_timelinel.pdf

  • 138. Rutherford  |  March 26, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    Promote the general welfare, with welfare meaning n. 1. health, happiness, or prosperity; well-being. It doesn’t mean organized handouts. — Gorilla

    Sorry but you’ve tossed in your own damn interpretation. If that’s what it takes to promote health, happiness and prosperity, then organized handouts (your words, not mine) are exactly what can be done.

    You see Gorilla, you and your brethren view the Constitution as dogma, much like a Bible. (Another reason why mixing church and state is so damn dangerous.) That is where you make your mistake. The Constitution is a well thought out framework with the necessary elements to allow for evolution. That is something in my article that you fail to address because if you did, you would lose your entire argument. The founding fathers could never have predicted how society would change over 240 years. Hell, they didn’t know if the union would last 20 years. We take the Constitution and then we do what we can to make America the best country it can be. We don’t stop progress using the Constitution as our weapon.

    I think Jefferson, Madison and others would find the current obstructionist conduct of the GOP abhorrent.

    deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

    Yes, this is done via representative government and elections.

    If I’m not mistaken, the Constitution makes no provision for the dissolution of the United States. I don’t recall seeing anywhere in there a right of States to secede or violate Federal law. Please show me “chapter and verse” of where it does.

  • 139. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  March 26, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    General welfare benefits everyone, and not through tortured lines of reasoning to establish. And any “prosperity” that has to be coerced from some citizens in order to allegedly benefit others misses that definition by a mile. And before you say “But Social Security, or Medicare, or TANF…”, I want you to know that there is no basis to claim laches against clear Constitutional provisions.

    The Constitution is a well thought out framework with the necessary elements to allow for evolution.

    The Consitition is a set of bylaws that can be amended, by using the process that set forth in those bylaws. “Evolution” would have been a foreign concept to them, considering “Origin of the Species” was not published until 1859.

    We don’t stop progress using the Constitution as our weapon.

    When “progress” entails a never ending expansion of government that is unmistakably in opposition to the concepts of separation of powers, not just within the federal government, but also between the people, the states, and the federal government, thus enshrining the function of limited government, then the Constitution is either in opposition to such “progress”, or it means nothing at all.

    I think Jefferson, Madison and others would find the current obstructionist conduct of the GOP abhorrent.

    I think you just demonstrated a lack of historical understanding that would be astonishing if I did not know that for you, political history began in 2008.

    The partisan split in Washington’s own cabinet, and the venomnous animosity that it set loose between Jefferson and his supporters and Adams and Hamilton and their supporters would make even brazen smear merchants employed by today’s Democrats and their shills in the legacy media blanch in shock.

    The obstructionism in Congress from the 1820s leading up to the Civil War, which lead to the abridgment of a prominent Cpngressman’s right of free speech and de facto abridgment of constituents’ rights to petition the government was awe-inspiring in its scope and acceptance by many members.

    Perhaps if you had a better knowledge of the history you try to invoke, then maybe it wouldn’t make me quite so irritated with the potent cocktail of self-righteousness and ignorance that you tried to peddle with that moronic statement.

  • 140. Rutherford  |  March 27, 2010 at 12:09 am

    BiW, now you’re just being silly. Are you really saying that the founding fathers did not believe that ideas develop, evolve, over time? You know damn well I’m not talking Darwin here.

    Why do your bring up separation of powers? I don’t see anything violated there. Congress is doing what it was chartered to do. The President is doing what he is chartered to do. And since the law is already being challenged, the judiciary will do what it is chartered to do. Again, terminology is tossed around in an attempt to say the sky is falling when in fact, government is chugging along just as it always has.

    I did not say that Washington, Adams, Hamilton and Jefferson agreed on everything. But I maintain that they didn’t envision a government where one side simply votes NO all the time with no workable reasonable alternatives. Or to put it differently, they did not have in mind a dysfunctional government which is what the GOP is driving us towards. And i notice that to make an example of obstructionism you fast forward to 1820. Nice move, evasive but nice.

    Oh while I am at it, the fact that my interest in politics was sparked in 2007/2008 does not make me an idiot. Your pointing out that the Founding Fathers had disagreements is evidence that you think I am. I am well aware that there are people who know history and those that distort it and I’m always on the lookout for the latter. :-)

  • 141. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  March 27, 2010 at 1:11 am

    Are you really saying that the founding fathers did not believe that ideas develop, evolve, over time?

    They did not, and would not have advocated for the expansion of federal power to the extent that it exists today, but that is the exact type of “evolution” advocated for by people who talk about it being “a living breathing document”. the scope of federal power today goes against every principal of limited government established in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

    Why do your bring up separation of powers? I don’t see anything violated there.

    I know you don’t see anything violated. That is why we have such a disagreement on this subject.

    I bring up separation of powers because taking over the health care industry by competing with health insurance carriers while regulating them at the same time is not properly within the purview of the federal government.

    Health insurance is already regulated by the states, and if the states, like say…Massachusetts? want to get involved and offer coverage to the public and regulate the health care business by setting rates, it is within their power, and theirs alone to do. As this is the case, it most certainly is for the other party to say no, and “not offer any reasonable alternatives”, because it isn’t properly within the scope of their power.

    This actually has little to do with helping anyone procure health care at reasonable costs, as John Dingell and Max Baucus had the bad sense to let slip this week.

    Or to put it differently, they did not have in mind a dysfunctional government which is what the GOP is driving us towards.

    Nonsense. One of the reasons we have a bicameral legislature, with differing term lengths and different election cycles and constituencies is to prevent the Congress from being very effective at all. The idea was that to pass a bill through both houses required true consensus. They weren’t thinking about parties at that time, because they didn’t exist. However, the parties could at least say with a straight face that bipartisan support for a bill indicated that there was some consensus on the issue. Conversely, when the bipartisan support is actually against the bill that you have to ram through, then continue to sell after you do, that indicates that there is a problem.

    And i notice that to make an example of obstructionism you fast forward to 1820.

    Do you know what you are talking about? I don’t know what you are talking about. I started out referring to the conflicts between the Federalists and the Democrats during John Adams’ term. When I skipped forward, I was referring to the censure of John Quincy Adams in the House for continuing to bring petitions of citizens to the floor of the House to end the slave trade in the nation’s capitol, and the decades long fight he waged to restore that right of petition in the face of a very stern and obstructionist block in the House. Obstructionism isn’t new, and whining about it when your party is told no, they cannot simply usurp by fiat any damn power they choose is not worthy of complaint. Nancy and Harry need to put on their big girl panties and deal with the fact that some of their fellow legislators have no intention of rolling over and giving them whatever they want.

    I am well aware that there are people who know history and those that distort it and I’m always on the lookout for the latter.

    I’ve distorted nothing, and I invite you to try to prove otherwise.

  • 142. Not For You To Take « Taxes, Stupidity, and Death  |  March 28, 2010 at 9:06 pm

    [...] Care Takeover of 2010, in the face of bipartisan resistance, published a post precociously titled “No, You Cannot Have Your Country Back.” in response to the cries of some conservative Americans, who watched the proceeding in [...]

  • [...] Care Takeover of 2010, in the face of bipartisan resistance, published a post precociously titled “No, You Cannot Have Your Country Back.” in response to the cries of some conservative Americans, who watched the proceeding in [...]

  • 144. an800lbgorilla  |  March 29, 2010 at 5:59 am

    Wow, R, what can I say? Not only have you demonstrated, again, that you have a VERY rudimentary understanding of the Constitution, but you’ve shown clearly that you really have little care for it as well.

    That definition was a dictionary definition, not mine and if you even remotely think that the founders would approve of 1) HCR or 2) how it was forced upon the people when they were 3) clearly against it, well, your arrogant narcissism is second only to the One.

    This was about controlling the people and the people understand that.

    I’m curious, you call the folks in the Tea Party fringe and out of touch, except in a recent poll, the American people felt the Tea Party movement had a better touch on the issues than Congress, 52% to 30%. Of course, you then had the left trotting out essays again calling Conservatives racists because we’re against HCR, Cap and Trade and the left’s version of immigration reform. Right, why am I not surprised to once again see a liberal throw the race card… Yawn…

    R, you are exceedingly ignorant. You clearly do not understand the founding of this nation, the premises it was founded upon, nor the dynamics that allowed it to become the greatest nation ever. Or maybe you do, and you realize that you don’t posses any of the qualities and so, you’ve got to force others to carry your ass. Either way, you’re going to get tossed in November, I just don’t think you realize how bad…

  • 145. Rutherford  |  March 30, 2010 at 10:07 am

    Yeah Gorilla, I am exceedingly ignorant. So is Frank Rich. So are lots of people. You and yours would do better to listen to us ignorant folks. Our America is the America the world admires. Yours is the one the world fears.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/28/opinion/28rich.html

  • 146. Rutherford  |  March 31, 2010 at 11:32 pm

    Since Elric won’t grace us with his presence, I thought I’d share this video he posted over at Alfie’s place. It illustrates one of your prevalent themes that libs were just as vicious as GOPhers back in the day.

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