Republicans Today, Whigs Tomorrow

It’s kind of a shame. I’m a nice liberal. I feel for my conservative brethren and I’ve warned them repeatedly that their behavior will get them nowhere fast. Yet they persist in childish obstructionism, total lack of original thought and at times downright nasty rhetoric. The Whigs managed to get two Presidents elected in the mid 19th century. They actually got four for their trouble since both elected Presidents (Harrison and Taylor) died in office leaving two VP’s to step into the Oval Office. When Millard Fillmore finished his term, that was the last we heard of the Whigs. In 1860, the Republicans got their first electoral victory and a fine victory it was too, none other than Abraham Lincoln. The Republican track record has been considerably better than the Whigs. Alas, I think the show is almost over. Look what happens, conservative ladies and gentlemen when you ignore my advice.

Who Would You Vote for Today?

Who Would You Vote for Today?

The Washington Post and ABC News asked a random sample of about 1000 adults which party they would put in the House of Representatives if the election was today. The GOP gets whupped by a whopping 12 points. The news doesn’t get much better with the next question.

Who do you have confidence in? Obama, Democratic Congressmen or Republican Congressmen?

Who Inspires Your Confidence?

Who Inspires Your Confidence?

Congress as a whole doesn’t come out looking too good here. Obama does not crack 50 but even among the sad Congressional numbers, the GOP is pathetic. The GOP’s decision making ability inspires the confidence of not even 20% of those polled.

You might suspect from these numbers that not too many people even want to be called Republicans anymore. You would be right.

Folks who call themselves GOP'ers

Folks who call themselves GOP'ers

As Keith Olbermann correctly pointed out tonight on MSNBC’s “Countdown”, this is worse than a five percent drop since August (at the peak of Tea Party mania). It actually says that one in five folks since August have disassociated themselves from the Republican party.

So what happens when a party becomes irrelevant? One thing that happens is that serious people start to simply ignore them. Since they now have no one outside the party with which to engage, they are left to talk amongst themselves and this can get pretty ugly. I wrote a short time ago that the Republican party was starting to eat itself as town hall rowdy’s attacked one of their own, Lindsay Graham. Yet another example occurred a few days ago at the Western Conservative Political Action Conference. John Ziegler, a radio talk show host with a major hard-on for Sarah Palin (he made a documentary about how she was abused by the media) interviewed the head of the CPAC, David Keene. Keene had made the grave mistake of accusing Palin of “whining” and other behavior unbecoming of a Presidential hopeful.

Now, if you haven’t noticed, you have to search far and wide to find any leading conservative who will call out Ms. Palin for her amateur hour audition for a place in national politics. Keene violated this rule. (Steve Schmidt, McCain’s campaign adviser violated it also but backed off his comments a few days later.) So Sarah’s valiant defender, Mr. Ziegler went up one side of Keene and down the other. The following two part video is long but instructive to Republicans who might want to stop internal bickering and start providing real leadership. For liberals, it’s just a hoot to watch! In part 1, the “interview” between Ziegler and Keene starts out well enough, but soon deteriorates.

As part 2 gets underway, Keene is now thoroughly irritated and suggests that Ziegler is deserving of physical violence.

Democrats fight among themselves all the time. That is one reason health care reform is so long in coming this year. The Democrats can’t get out of each other’s way (can you spell bluedogs?). Usually Republicans are an efficient single minded by the book voting machine. That is why these bursting seams are so unexpected and so symptomatic of a party in self destruct mode.

OK, let me try this one more time. My Republican friends, please follow my prescription:

1. Kick Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann, Jim DeMint and various other loony tunes to the side.
2. Try coming up with some original ideas, some alternatives that people can get behind. Right now we have a one party system.
3. Turn the other cheek and show Obama more respect than your man Bush got during his terms. This will buy you truck loads of good will.

If you don’t heed my warning this time, I can assure you that your grandchildren’s history books will read:

The first great Republican President was Abraham Lincoln and the last one was Ronald Reagan. After the disastrous presidency of George W. Bush, the GOP never won another election and ceased to exist altogether  in 2011.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

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221 thoughts on “Republicans Today, Whigs Tomorrow

  1. R,

    “The sampling comprises 33% Democrats, as opposed to only 20% Republicans. That thirteen-point spread is two points larger than their September polling, at 32%/21%. More tellingly, it’s significantly larger than their Election Day sample, which included 35% Democrats to 26% Republicans for a gap of nine points, about a third smaller than the gap in this poll. Of course, that’s when they were more concerned about accuracy over political points of view.”
    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/10/20/wapoabc-poll-uses-skewed-sample-to-show-public-option-support/

    The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that 42% would vote for their district’s Republican congressional candidate while 37% would opt for his or her Democratic opponent. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/generic_congressional_ballot

    Support for the health care plan proposed by the President and Congressional Democrats is down to 42%. Fifty-four percent (54%) are opposed.
    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

    The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Wednesday shows that 27% of the nation’s voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Forty percent (40%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -13.

    Overall, 47% of voters say they at least somewhat approve of the President’s performance. Fifty-three percent (53%) disapprove.

    Who’s right? I’ll go with Rassmussen, not because they’re “right” but because they’ve been shown to be more accurate than any other political poll for several years now. More importantly, they haven’t been shown to be so wrong by using skewed, weighted samples in the guise of the “public”.

    Of note:

    Pollster.com founder Mark Blumenthal noted that “independent analyses from the National Council on Public Polls, the American Association for Public Opinion Research, the Pew Research Center, the Wall Street Journal and FiveThirtyEight.com have all shown that the horse-race numbers produced by automated telephone surveys did at least as well as those from conventional live-interviewer surveys in predicting election outcomes.”

    Additionally, an analysis by Pollster.com partner Charles Franklin “found that despite identically sized three-day samples, the Rasmussen daily tracking poll is less variable than Gallup.” During Election 2008, the Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll was the least volatile of all those tracking the race. That stability is one reason that Nate Silver of fivethirtyeight.com said that the Rasmussen tracking poll “would probably be the one I’d want with me on a desert island.”

    A Fordham University professor rated the national pollsters on their record in Election 2008. We also have provided a summary of our results for your review. In 2008, Obama won 53%-46% and our final poll showed Obama winning 52% to 46%. While we were pleased with the final result, Rasmussen Reports was especially pleased with the stability of our results. On every single day for the last six weeks of the campaign, our daily tracking showed Obama with a stable and solid lead attracting more than 50% of the vote.

  2. Attempted honor killing in Arizona: Muslim runs down daughter for becoming too “Westernized”

    Faleh Hassan Almaleki is still at large. “Iraqi man runs down daughter for becoming too ‘westernized,'” from Yourwestvalley.com, October 21 (thanks to Art):

    Peoria police are searching for a man they say ran down his 20-year-old daughter in a parking lot for becoming “too ‘westernized’ and … not living according to their traditional Iraq values.”

    Noor Faleh Almaleki of Surprise was taken to a local hospital with life-threatening injuries, police said. Another woman, Amal Edan Khalaf, 43, of Surprise also was struck and is in the hospital with non-life threatening injuries.

    The incident occurred Tuesday afternoon in Department of Economic Security parking lot at 8990 W. Peoria Ave….

    Detectives from the Peoria Police Violent Crimes Unit, after talking with family and friends, learned Faleh Hassan Almaleki, 48, of Glendale was the driver, and that he is the father of Noor Faleh Almaleki.

    Those interviewed also told police he was with her as she had become too “westernized” and had made threats toward her….

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/10/attempted-honor-killing-in-arizona-muslim-runs-down-daughter-for-becoming-too-westernized.html

    Looking like the UK more and more everyday

  3. Yeah what Gorilla said. Seriously I appreciate you spent some time compiling this post but its pretty worthless outside of partisanship ala KOS.
    In their internal struggles the Republican Party will eventually better itself,not destroy itself. That is in stark contrast to the current politburo setting of the dems who have nowhere to go but down. Whos driving that ? Reid,Pelosi,Rangel and others top dogs.
    Speaking of dogs I love it that Blue Dogs get your goat. Heaven forbid the last remnants of the real Democrat Party have any say in anything. I think your socialist slip is showing Rutherford.

  4. R-
    RE:Kick Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann, Jim DeMint and various other loony tunes to the side.

    Yeppers. I firmly believe they serve as a detriment to the party and distract from the important issues.

    Having said that, I’d like to present my list of looney tuners from the left side of the isle who are proving themselves to be far more dangerous not only to the DNC, but to the country.

    Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., Barbara Boxer,D-Calif., Henry Waxman, D-Calif., Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., Maxine Waters, D-Calif.

    Does anyone see a theme there?

    Reflect on the current condition of the state of California. … it’s printing IOU’s like there’s no tomorrow. (They’re probably right about that one.) Then reflect on who is pushing these insane, treasury-busting bills through congress so fast the ink from the printer is still wet. Why, it’s none other than Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

    Not happy with ph*cking their own state, they are well on their way to ph*cking up the rest of the country, as well.

  5. Nice posts Gorilla and Alfie – Gorilla for the complete summarization and Alfie for the insight. Alfie has been on a roll of late.

    This is one subject that I feel pretty confident in speaking about, because I am sure I would be one of those 5%’ers of Republicans that the Poet Rutherford is gloating about. I am fed up with the Republican party and have voiced my disapproval loudly at the local level. In my local mayor election for the 2nd time in row, the elitist Republican candidate will not get my vote and I’ll vote for the little guy.

    The Poet is reading the tea leaves wrong as he will soon be finding out. I personally don’t care what people call themselves or what their party affiliation. You can call yourself a Democrat, but when you are voting for Conservative candidates like my wife, it matters not. Believe it or not I’m married to a registered Democrat – or what a Democrat represented 40 years ago. Don’t think that she doesn’t recognize what Obama and Co. are. That is why party affiliation is almost meaningless anymore. We should be identified by our philosophy.

    It is the Democratic party that is dead and has been since the days of Reagan. There are no Sam Nunn or Daniel Patrick Moynihan types left. The ones that called themselves Democrat changed their party affiliation between ’80-’96. There has been a fundamental change since the 70s and undoubtedly Rutherford is not deep enough to recognize this. It’s an example of what happens when you get your ideas and your makeup from MSNBC.

    Rutherford is desperate – he sees the sinking ship and the make up of the Democratic party. It’s a disgrace and a recipe for disaster as the last nine months prove.

    Rutherford is hoping, even praying to his unknown god that Republicans will adopt his suggestion of abandoning Conservatives. And if they do, the Republicans will go the way of the Whigs. So be it. It was these moderate Repubs that got the boot if you’ll note and caused the party to come crashing down in the first place. Lindsey Graham and John McCain are RINOs and east coast moderate lite. Their time will soon be up.

    I think some of the logical fallacies are overused and abused on the net, but this is one time I will borrow one to describe this post by the Poet Rutherford:

    Cognitive Dissonance (textbook example).

  6. Buwahahaahaha…

    I always am curious how Rutherford gets his talking points, being he is always parroting the “progressive line”. Now, I know.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20091022/pl_politico/28589

    The loon that wrote this has an even less understanding of the changes going on than old Rutherford. It will take a while, maybe even as much as a decade, but the Republican party as these bozos know it will no longer exist. People are definitely fed up.

    Rutherford is right about the Republican party, but for the wrong reasons.

  7. Note for the Philosopher Rutherford audience:

    I just listened to Vice President Joe Biden give a soundbite. Surely this is the dumbest man in Washington. There can be no dumber.

    From now on Jolting Joe Biden will be known as Colonel Klink. The man can’t get anything right.

  8. Save Earth – Eat Your Pet

    The eco-pawprint of a pet dog is twice that of a 4.6-litre Land Cruiser driven 10,000 kilometres a year, researchers have found.

    Victoria University professors Brenda and Robert Vale, architects who specialise in sustainable living, say pet owners should swap cats and dogs for creatures they can eat, such as chickens or rabbits, in their provocative new book Time to Eat the Dog: The real guide to sustainable living.

    http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2009/10/save-the-planet-eat-your-pet/

  9. It’s too soon for us to drill.

    We first have to wait for the left, the tree huggers, granola heads, ACLU the rest of their ilk to finish hobbling this great country and reducing it into a 3rd-rate banana republic. THEN we can give away what’s left of our national resources to whomever.

    When they’re done, we can drill a hole in our heads.

  10. Paterson to Obama: You just cost NY a billion dollars, champ
    posted at 2:55 pm on October 22, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

    Barack Obama’s war on Wall Street has claimed one significant casualty so far: the state of New York. While the Pay Czar claws back bonuses and salaries from bailed-out investment firms, which was a condition of taking the TARP money (not exactly a voluntary act anyway), the big reduction means a big hit in New York state income revenues. Governor David Paterson took the opportunity to slam Obama over the missing money, observes the New York, er, Observer:

    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/10/22/paterson-to-obama-you-just-cost-ny-a-billion-dollars-champ/

  11. White House to Meet With Killer Military Regime in Burma
    Thursday, October 22, 2009, 12:02 PM
    Jim Hoft

    http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2009/10/white-house-to-meet-with-killer-military-regime-in-burma/

    Hmmm will meet with killer regimes like Burma but wont attend the 20th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall. Thuggy hates freedom and loves oppression. That the drones never comment on these stories I link to, I am guessing they deep down know this too.

  12. “One thing that happens is that serious people start to simply ignore them”-Rutherford.

    Yeah, you can ignore us for maybe a decade, in which your ilk surely will trample the Constitution the entire time.

    Then, you will notice we are armed, well versed in Locke and not afraid to knock the tracheotomy out of your gord.

  13. Gorilla, since you know that Rasmussen skews right and that I will call you on it, why don’t you find another poll to dispute mine?

    The funny part (which I realized only after finishing this article) is that I am opening myself up to the very factor I criticized in a prior thread, namely that we can find a poll to support any conclusion.

    Still, I did tremendously enjoy using the WaPo poll as a rhetorical device! 🙂

  14. Muslim runs down daughter for becoming too “Westernized”

    Seriously Elric, are you mentally ill? Do you know what a dimwit this makes you look like? I know I granted you a one-muslim-comment-per post limit on articles unrelated to Islam but damn … you make it your first comment? You can’t even make your first comment on topic?

    If you do this just to piss me off, you may seriously get yourself banned. If you do it cos you just can’t help yourself than you really need to go get some help. I don’t care if your views on Islam are 100% valid, this is some sick sh*t.

    P.S. Seriously … you need to start your own blog on this topic. Assuming you’re not just being an ass*ole, this is obviously very important to you. Start a blog and post to your heart’s content. Hell, I’ll even give you pointers to get it off the ground if you don’t know where to start.

  15. Kinda funny these say they want a 2 party system but try pushing these RINO’s on us.

    Mmmm, so Keene is a RINO cos he doesn’t see Palin’s obvious political genius?

  16. dithering on Afghanistan

    Nice plagiarism of your hero The Dick Cheney.

    I wish that ass hat would return to his undisclosed location (and take his ass hat daughter Liz with him.) 👿

  17. Yeah, Libs always love to throw the kids into the mix. They tried it with the Bush girls for a time.

    Maybe if Liz had been a cokehead like Colonel Klink’s daughter, that would have made her okay in the libbie handbook, right Brother “R”?

  18. Speaking of dogs I love it that Blue Dogs get your goat.

    Actually, Alfie, bluedogs only get my goat on health care reform and that’s because we’ve never been closer to getting something passed and now we have to resolve in-fighting when a united stand could crush Republican opposition.

    Outside of the health care reform debate, I’m all for moderation. I’d like to see more moderate Republicans and Democrats. In fact, I find the idea of fiscally conservative Democrats kind of appealing except when it interferes with a moral obligation, as in the case of health care reform.

  19. Rutherford,

    Do you have any idea how much you are getting ready to have your ass handed to you both figuratively and possibly literally in the next 5-10 years? You rube.

    Most Americans hate your type, disdain your type, would spin your type out in the void of space given a chance, believe you a cowardly type. Even the radical Muslims are going to hate you when they’re through with you and saw off your head off (there’s one good thing about radical Islam Elric).

    And since you like to follow the news and brag about your own TV heroes, have you been reading how Ms. Ann Coulter has personally destroyed any credibility Keith Olbermann might have had? This information needs more advertisement. It seems Overbite has been exaggerating his education, his credentials, his major, his school. And this is the type of clown you strive to idolize?

    Tragic… 👿

  20. Pornographic Anti-Christian Harvard Art Show Funded By Obama’s Safe Schools Czar

    I don’t know who the bishop in the piece of “art” was but surely you agree that pedophile priests are scumbags, don’t you Elric? Does it irk you that a homosexual can be decent enough to call it out, while lots of other folks stood by and let the crap go down? When I saw that “artwork” I immediately assumed it was a statement about the catholic church sex scandal. I could be wrong.

    I also don’t fully understand the “funding” connection here. Neither WZ nor the linked article made it clear to me in what way our government is funding the exhibit unless it falls under the NEA.

  21. Rutherford is hoping, even praying to his unknown god that Republicans will adopt his suggestion of abandoning Conservatives.

    No, actually Tex I just want Republicans to abandon the lunatic fringe, You can be a true Conservative without being a paranoid schizophrenic (Bachmann) or a dullard (Palin), or an ignorant rabble-rouser (DeMint).

    Since you inserted your wife back into the debate (right when I thought we’d keep our better halves out of this), it’s interesting that she became a Democrat right when they stopped being segregationist dixie-crats. I find that admirable. The fact that she is a registered Democrat only further confirms my suspicion that she thinks Sarah Palin totally insignificant. 😉

  22. Paterson to Obama: You just cost NY a billion dollars, champ

    If that really is Paterson’s take on the matter than he is nothing but a whore. The arrogant abuses of Wall Street have to come to an end. Paterson wants NY to get income off revenue from the folks who nearly threw us into a depression? If so, he’s an ass. Besides, who are we kidding … the fat cats were cheating on their taxes anyway, so Paterson was never getting all the income he is now complaining about losing.

  23. Then, you will notice we are armed, well versed in Locke and not afraid to knock the tracheotomy out of your gord.

    Like I’ve said before, I never quite know what will set the Rabbit off.

    Oh well.

  24. No Rutherford,

    It has nothing to do with segregation as she would find you a sniveling product of excuse making, victimhood mentality. 😉

    And I can absolutely, positively guarantee that given a choice between Sarah P. and say Shelly Obama, the choice would be easy one with the good looking hot bod easily defeating the bubble-butted, America hatin’, hoola hoopster and sometimes septic tank gardener – ardent fan of Brother Jeremiah, when politically convenient. 🙂

  25. “Even the radical Muslims are going to hate you when they’re through with you and saw off your head off (there’s one good thing about radical Islam Elric).”

    Good point. These libs made a pact with the devil (allah). Cant wait when payment is due.

  26. Yeah, Libs always love to throw the kids into the mix.

    Damn Tex, you’re older than I thought you were if you think Liz Cheney is a “kid”. 😉

    BTW, I didn’t know Biden’s daughter had a coke problem … maybe that’s because she doesn’t go shooting her mouth off on TV at every opportunity.

  27. All:
    Ok the Fox thing was bad enough hows everyone feel about literally locking the doors on Republicans today?

    Democracy don’t live here no more.

    R :
    thanks for a reply. I’d invite to support the Blue Dog philosophy on health care. The funding just isn’t there and the grand experiment is just too risky man. Embracing the same timelines of enactment (the earliest you get your ObamaCard is 2013) I find it hard to believe the USA can’t create better options. This isn’t like a cheap baseball cap one size fits all. Reform,true reform is so extensive in its nature that a measured approach targeting each point is needed. Nothing on the table now deserves to be called reform. The only thing it remotely reforms is the economy. It assures it decent into the toilet. I say that not out of pure partisanship. i say it because bottomline the course being set MUST lead to single payer. otherwise its just a huge wrench in the economy machine and it’ll break us.
    Reform without responsibility is not what we need.

  28. Rutherford 43…yeah the Bush girls got a lot of shit and as for Cheney how ya like the past lesbian fiasco during the elections. Call it fair and square man.

  29. On Afghanistan and without any knowledge of Cheneys comments of late I had a post that looked at how Pakistan is mounting an offensive and is literally begging the USA and NATO to mount up also.
    Seriously in this very dire and dynamic scenario a decision must be made. In fact it is past due no matter how much you Love Obama. It is time for a decision whether it is a good one or a bad one. A decision must be made.

  30. R, that’s just it, Rassmussen isn’t skewed to the right or the left. If you would have read my entire comment, you would have seen that several independent pollsters coroberate Rassmussen, besides the simple fact that Rassmussen has been by far the most accurate of any of the polls for the last few years.

    But since you asked for other polls…

    PRINCETON, NJ — Thus far in 2009, 40% of Americans interviewed in national Gallup Poll surveys describe their political views as conservative, 35% as moderate, and 21% as liberal. This represents a slight increase for conservatism in the U.S. since 2008, returning it to a level last seen in 2004. The 21% calling themselves liberal is in line with findings throughout this decade, but is up from the 1990s.

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/120857/conservatives-single-largest-ideological-group.aspx#

    PRINCETON, NJ — Roughly a year before the 2010 midterm elections, Gallup finds the Republican and Democratic Parties nearly tied in the congressional ballot preferences of registered voters. Forty-six percent of registered voters say they would vote for the Democrat and 44% say the Republican when asked which party’s candidate they would support for Congress, if the election were held today.

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/123497/parties-nearly-tied-congress-2010.aspx

    Oh yeah, sample size for the Post/ABC poll + 1004, Rassmussen’s sample size is 3500. Gallup, since I posted it, is 906.

    Anyway you cut it, the Post poll is crap.

  31. Yeah I can’t buy skew Right when it comes to Rasmussen. they poll many many topics that are not necessarily Right but the results speak for themselves. They are more right than many others.
    FWIW polls aren’t total crap ya just can’t let them be that end all kinda thing.

  32. Alfie,

    Considering that Thuggy picks czars that love Mao who murdered10 times the numbers Hitler did, I guess it would be weak. Russians are selling Thuggy short.

  33. Obama’s War on Fox News Becomes a Quagmire
    By Red Square
    10/20/2009, 4:34 pm

    THE WHITE HOUSE – Despite the President’s promise of a swift and decisive victory, Obama’s War on Fox News has developed all signs of an unwinnable quagmire, making the White House even more isolated in its unilateral attempts to crush the growing media insurgency. As the war continues to grind on for a second month, public opinion is shifting towards a quick and complete withdrawal. While many observers still agree that the “War on Limbaugh” is a “just and necessary war,” even the former supporters of the war effort are now labeling the War on Fox an “unnecessary war of choice” and claim that the cable channel had nothing to do with Obama’s falling approval numbers.
    ~

    Some say that the general in charge, Anita Dunn, greatly underestimated the power of fiery critic Glenn “Muqtada” Beck and his band of radical followers, who have inflicted heavy casualties on White House forces.

    The war has recently passed an ugly milestone as Obama’s hand-picked czar Van Jones exploded in the middle of the battlefield littered with pencils, notebooks, blackberries, and media tags, sending shockwaves of terror through the ranks of reporters in the service of the administration.

    The Rest

    http://thepeoplescube.com/red/viewtopic.php?t=4221

  34. Strange but true fun facts about MaO Bama:

    I happened to read today that Michelle Malkin wisely noted that MaO had spent about 25 minutes with General McCrystal to discuss Afghanistan and 150 minutes with Keith Olbermann and Co. to discuss the “media”.

    Don’t dare question where this narcissistic man’s priorities lie.

    Right Mr. Lawson? 😉

  35. I gotta make up for staying up till 2am yesterday blogging, so I’m off to bed. I will handle comments tomorrow.

    Hey Tex … give me something to look forward to when I get up tomorrow morning … post a link to Ann Coulter’s “expose” of Keith Olbermann. I’d love to read it just to enjoy her snarkiness. 🙂

  36. Was Rutherford Lawson at the off-the-record White House meeting with the everyone-but-Fox-News press?

    Compare these talking points….

    Rutherford Lawson:

    Democrats fight among themselves all the time. That is one reason health care reform is so long in coming this year. The Democrats can’t get out of each other’s way (can you spell bluedogs?). Usually Republicans are an efficient single minded by the book voting machine.

    Barack Obama:

    You know, sometimes Democrats can be their own worst enemies. Democrats are an opinionated bunch. You know, the other side, they just kind of sometimes do what they’re told. Democrats, ya’ll are thinking for yourselves. I like that in ya, but it’s time for us to make sure we finish the job here. We are this close, and we’ve got to be unified.

    I will also point out that this post is making an arguement concerning voting, but the sample of the poll used to support it is not of “registered or likely voters,” but rather “adults.”

    So basically, what most of those people think doesn’t mean jack shit, because they likely won’t be voting anyway.

    You really should do better research on your polls if you are going to use them as the basis of your arguement. Especially since you admit that polls are a joke.

  37. “3. Turn the other cheek and show Obama more respect than your man Bush got during his terms. This will buy you truck loads of good will.”

    Are you kidding with this?

    Barack Obama can’t take a dump without blaming George Bush for the smell. Bush continues to get no respect as he serves as the excuse for Obama’s failure to lead this country.

    Disrespecting George Bush won Democrats control of our government. So now it’s time for us to turn the other cheek—so they can slap that one, too.

    Ain’t gonna happen, my friend.

  38. “I happened to read today that Michelle Malkin wisely noted that MaO had spent about 25 minutes with General McCrystal to discuss Afghanistan and 150 minutes with Keith Olbermann and Co. to discuss the “media”.

    Scary isnt it Tex. While men and women are dying, Thuggy is bitching about Fox News.

  39. I will also point out that this post is making an arguement concerning voting …

    Red Pill, not entirely. Yes, it is true I suggested that George W. Bush may be the last Republican President, but the actual demise of the GOP involves more than just votes. It also involves a schism from within based on a realization that the wingnuts are making the party a joke.

  40. Michele Malkin is part of the three headed monster Malkin-Coulter-Ingraham. I fully expect kids to show up at my door this Halloween in the three-headed costume. I’ll make sure to give them apples with razor blades inside. 👿

  41. Rutherford:
    67: Dude you live in Ct any kids coming to your door will be dressed in something other than a rightwing female Cerebrus/Hydra thing. More likely to be dressed as Dodd looking for unreportable campaign contributions or tax money. Either way far more scary.
    66: Inside man Rutherford. Again how ya like the democracy of all that?
    65: You did more than suggest but I guess thats subjective to the reader. Do you seriously believe ANY POTUS of late has been elected without having a well established system of opposition hate ? Seriously your answer to that one will dictate whether I ever return.

  42. Considering that Thuggy picks czars that love Mao who murdered10 times the numbers Hitler did

    My, how anti-Semitic of you Elric. I think if you asked the average person, or even the average historian who gets more points on the “evil” scale, Hitler would beat Mao hands down.

  43. Rutherford: Hitler v Mao. Hitler is perceived as more evil due to packaging. Not to say he wasn’t indeed evil but Stalin beat him. It has to be said to that Mao policies easily killed 20 million and newer and even official Chinese estimates go 40-70 million.

  44. Alfie, first on the CT remark, LOL yeah I suppose your suggested costume is more likely but I live in Middlebury which swings right-wing. Heck, my neighbors refuse to talk politics with me probably because they sense if we get too deep into it, they’ll hate my guts and vice versa.

    I’m not quite sure what you’re getting at with the “well established system of opposition hate” remark. I’m not being deliberately obtuse, I’m truly a bit puzzled at what you’re getting at.

    Let me take a stab at it. If you mean that every POTUS is elected not only by folks who love him but by folks who hate the opposition, then yes that is obviously true. It is also true that political parties die because they can’t win elections, so again, I concede to Red Pill that voting is a major factor. I simply maintain that political parties must also die from within. It is a result of the members of that party trying to come to grips with why they are losing elections. Once the members decide that the party is incapable of change, they splinter and form a party that can win elections.

    So, all I am saying is that the demise of a party has two factors: electoral failure and dissenting within the ranks.

    If I’ve totally missed your point, give it another go and let’s see if I can give you a better answer.

  45. Hitler, Mao, Stalin …. mmmmm I wonder if our resident historians Elric and Tex can estimate how many folks Obama will have exterminated before he is through. (Cos you know he’s in good company with all those EVIL people!!!)

  46. Gorilla, regarding Alan Grayson, I have some serious misgivings about him. On the one hand I like the idea of fighting fire with fire and he is a flame-thrower. On the other hand, two wrongs don’t make a right and Alan’s sweeping attacks on the right lack sophistication. He may give Dem’s a visceral thrill but it won’t work in the long term.

  47. It is time for a decision whether it is a good one or a bad one. A decision must be made.

    Alfie, sorry but I can’t buy that. Not when young American lives are at stake. We need to know what we are doing, why we are doing it and what the endgame is.

  48. “Rutherford: Hitler v Mao. Hitler is perceived as more evil due to packaging. Not to say he wasn’t indeed evil but Stalin beat him. It has to be said to that Mao policies easily killed 20 million and newer and even official Chinese estimates go 40-70 million.”

    Thanks Alfie. Thuggy surrounds himself with radicals that look up to a thug that murdered millions more than Hitler. Might add that their other hero Castro proportionally murdered more people than Hitler as well.

  49. Rutherford 43…yeah the Bush girls got a lot of shit and as for Cheney how ya like the past lesbian fiasco during the elections. Call it fair and square man.

    It’s funny …. I’ve wondered why see so much of Liz but we never hear from Mary, his lesbian daughter? Probably because Mary thinks Daddy is an assh*le. 🙂

  50. Rutherford,

    I wonder if our resident historians Elric and Tex can estimate how many folks Obama will have exterminated before he is through.

    Oh, your challenges do tickle me. That’s why I like you. Who doesn’t enjoy a good bean bag with a smiley face to punch and kick when you need one? No need for the proverbial beaten dog with I’ve got the Rutherford Lawson blog.

    Your challenge “R” reminds me of the nature of two types of sin: One of omission, and one of commission. Obama is that rare bird equally capable of both, though in my opinion he has only demonstrated one so far – that of omission.

    It would be impossible for me to predict how many people Obama will kill. Only time will tell as Obama’s true nature of evil is more aptly demonstrated.

    But concerning Obama’s spineless nature as he struts without vertebrae, his sin of omission is more easily measured and observed. Whether the feckless One prostrates himself before Saudi Kings, throws Israel to the wolves, or dithers about making judgments about our military, Obama will surely help usher in a new regime of Jew hating U.N./:Progressive Democrat types.

    Obama’s proclivity for mealy-mouthing, waffling, and lack of good character should be worth at least assisting in getting America into another World War – where I fully expect you, Wally Curator, and Obama to be actively rooting for the other side as you demonstrated during the Iraq War. 😉

  51. LOL Tex … regarding Coulter’s rant, brace yourself, but I fully agree with her. I vaguely recall Olbermann highlighting Coulter’s put-down on his show and making some lame excuse that ag students go to the same classes as the Arts and Sciences students.

    Cornell is an odd specimen, It does indeed have a bunch of different schools, only one of which, as Ann testifies, is considered “Ivy League”. In my most college snob moments, I do laugh at the state subsidized Cornell students who claim to be Ivy League. I knew one such graduate in my corporate days and she was always throwing Cornell in my face knowing I graduated from Harvard. Once I found out she was an Ag graduate, I just kinda chuckled to myself.

    Damn … you’re doing well this week Tex. First you kinda won the missile defense debate (because of Obama’s waffling) and now you score a dead on hit on Olbermann. Kudos. As my “Twerp of the Week” sound bite says on my internet radio show:

    “You magnificent bastard, I salute you!” 🙂

  52. Rutherford,

    Thank you, thank you! I would love to take personal credit but with your choice of living with your feet (and head) stuck in the sand living a life by the philosophy of liberalism, it’s like shooting a turtle off the top of the fence post – an incredibly easy target.

    And the only thing that confuses you after the shot is how the turtle got on top of the fence post?

    Like I have said before, I can only attribute our differences to my faith vs. your lack of one. Otherwise, our lives have strangely paralleled in many ways.

  53. Rutherford: “I don’t need to remember back that far. How about Bush and Rumsfeld?”

    Then you must remember how that eventually ended.

    Bush learned from the mistake, and successfully corrected it.

    This is a comment from the previous thead from Red Pill. I wanted to make sure everyone saw my answer so I’m posting it here.

    Bush didn’t learn a damn thing,

    After Cheney made his dumbass remarks this week concerning our CiC, General Paul Eaton (ret) who trained Iraqi military in 2003-2004 had this to say:

    The record is clear: Dick Cheney and the Bush administration were incompetent war fighters. They ignored Afghanistan for 7 years with a crude approach to counter-insurgency warfare best illustrated by: 1. Deny it. 2. Ignore it. 3. Bomb it. While our intelligence agencies called the region the greatest threat to America, the Bush White House under-resourced our military efforts, shifted attention to Iraq, and failed to bring to justice the masterminds of September 11.

  54. When measuring Rutherford’s counterpoints, my motto is that it is always best to measure the resource he uses first. Let us talk about General Paul Eaton, who Rutherford likes to use as source.

    Seems Paul Eaton, who one should note “trained” Iraqi troops so well that they almost lost the war, is a founder and big shot of the following garnered from Wiki:

    The National Security Network (NSN) is a progressive, non-profit foreign policy organization headquartered in Washington, D.C. that focuses on international relations, global affairs and national security. According to its mission statement, the National Security Network aims to “build a strong progressive national security and counter conservative spin.” Its founder, Rand Beers, was a Bush Administration counter-terrorism expert and is the former National Security Adviser to the John Kerry presidential campaign, 2004. Rand Beers resigned from NSN in 2009 to serve as Counselor to Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano. Among other things, the National Security Network acts as a resource for media outlets, releasing frequent opinion papers on a wide variety of foreign policy issues and engaging in rapid responses to current events. It also hosts the liberal global affairs blog Democracy Arsenal.

    In other words, another in a long list of libbie organizations whose sole purpose is to obfuscate, lie, attack, and counterpoint to hide the truth.

    Not only is the General named obviously incompetent as noted, but also just another in a long list of name droppers that groups like MoveOn, Media Matters, and Obama’s own feckless David Axelrod types like to trot out as “experts”, when they are nothing of the sort – that is, unless you believe John Kerry an expert too.

    To be expected, but much “ado” about nothing from our blog producer. Cheney is starting to own Obama in pointing out his dithering as would be expected, considering Cheney is at least 100 times smarter than Obama. The truth hurts.

  55. You know Rutherford. I’ve been thinking about your post and giving some serious thought.

    While it is completely obvious that liberalism a failure, as attested to by the absolutely rotten performance of Obama & Co., the “moderate” Republican party is almost as inept.

    What is far more interesting to me than Obama’s lack of ability outside the Greek columns & teleprompter, is the fight going on for control of the Republican party, because somewhere along the lines the Conservatives let these worthless “moderate” types like McCain and Graham gain control. There was a time twenty years ago when we ruled the roost, and for whatever reason we let our guard slip and the Rockefeller Republicans stepped back in to power guaranteeing eventual failure.

    See, I’ll be completely honest. I don’t think G.W. was a very effective president. Oh, he was much better than MaO no doubt, but he caved on so many issues dear to Conservatives that he really wasn’t a great friend. While I admire Bush for his restraint in attack and personal aw shucks demeanor, he never did learn you can’t trust the Democratic party and got burned for it. That and his inability to convey a message finally caught up with the Repubican party.

    I feel pretty confident in saying you are right in your assessment, but for all the wrong reasons. The country is the Republican party’s to take, no matter how much you liberals perceive otherwise. Your philosophy is a guaranteed recipe for failure and a great majority of the country knows it. The fact that they were hoodwinked by a slick talker is disappointing to me, but shouldn’t come as a big surprise. No doubt, people wanted change and McCain wasn’t it. The empty shirt that is Obama was completely obvious to me from the start. Obama’s lack of judgment and character does make him a danger that Bush never was.

    What was not so obvious until the last election is how completely ineffective these “moderate” Republicans can also be.

    The shame is on me and the rest of the Conservatives really. We had just had eight years of an incredibly effective Conservative leader by the name of Reagan and had proved our worth – both nationally and globally. Then starting with Bush Senior, we lost our motivation to push the agenda – I think it is because we are not really political by nature. It took 20 years and Obama to wake the sleeping giant.

    So I suppose in a way, we owe you inane libs a big thank you, if it doesn’t get us killed first. It will take a while as things usually evolve slowly in the U.S. But it will happen. 😉

  56. “It also involves a schism from within based on a realization that the wingnuts are making the party a joke.”

    Yes, but you seem to be basing that on the poll results you posted.

  57. Just my luck on my day off I would run into an old pic of Wally Curator. During his war days, I guess before adopting the state programmer’s job.

  58. Yes, but you seem to be basing that on the poll results you posted.

    Ehhh, no. I’m basing my schism comment on the videos I posted where certain conservatives (e.g. Keene) are willing to call a whiner a whiner (i.e. Palin) and he gets attacked by another conservative, nutjob sympathizer (Ziegler). Now from what I understand Keene is no saint. Ziegler may have some valid issues with him, but calling Palin a whiner is not one of them.

    Based on Keene, Lindsay Graham and others yet to come forward, there are conservatives who are saying enough is enough. As I said earlier this means the Republican party will either change or cease to exist.

  59. I think it is because we are not really political by nature.

    Tex, while I love your eloquent mea culpa message, that one phrase does stick out like a sore thumb.

    How do you define “political”? Wanting to be involved in the running of the country? Wanting to architect and enforce an ideology in the best interests of the country? If Republicans are really not political by nature, under those definitions, then it is no wonder they are failures.

    We need leadership. Those who currently oppose Obama are nothing more than whiners. Let’s see some leaders.

  60. Cheney is starting to own Obama in pointing out his dithering as would be expected

    Cheney is an asshat who nearly got his head blown off on 9/11 and has been scared sh*tless ever since. Folks who know Cheney say 9/11 changed him. I say he is one deranged mofo who like most arrogant Americans looked at terrorism all over the world and thought it could never happen here … even when a goddam memo said “Osama Bin Laden to strike America” and even suggested how he would do it. Once we got hit, Cheney became unhinged. Iraq, which Cheney declared a quagmire in prior admiistrations, was suddenly Public Enemy #1.

    The single worst thing that ever happened to George W, Bush was Dick Cheney (who laughingly made himself the VP candidate when he was on the VP vetting committee … DAG he manipulated Bush from minute one!)

    I’m also fascinated by how the only way a military man can win your respect, Tex, is if he abides by your ideology. So Gorilla is a war hero and Curator and General Eaton are cowards. So much for your patriotism Tex.

  61. Broadcast nets rejects Obama admin’s attempt to block Fox
    posted at 12:55 pm on October 23, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
    Share on Facebook | printer-friendly

    The collected Washington bureau chiefs of the major broadcast networks rejected a White House attempt to keep Fox News from participating in pool reports. Rather than cut Fox out of the pool, the broadcast bureau chiefs unanimously told the Obama administration that none of them would accept any interviews from administration officials. That forced the White House into retreat:

    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/10/23/broadcast-nets-rejects-obama-admins-attempt-to-block-fox/

    If only Thuggy was as dedicated in defeating the Taliban.

  62. UN: International Law has “Absolute Authority” – by Joseph Klein

    The United Nations Special Rapporteur on Torture, Manfred Nowak, told reporters at UN headquarters during his October 20th press briefing that criminal detainees are “vulnerable” people who need to be protected by a new UN treaty devoted just to the rights of detainees. He said that detainees deserved as much protection by the international community as children and the disabled do — which those groups already receive under the separate UN Conventions devoted just to them.

    Presumably, terrorist suspect detainees would also be covered under this new treaty that Nowak is proposing. In fact, he reiterated his opinion – based, he said, on his experience as an international jurist – that the “victims” of rendition and detention are entitled to “adequate reparations”.

    But that is not all. In response to my question whether the United Nations’ view of international law would trump a contrary decision by the highest court of a functioning democracy with an independent judiciary such as the United States, Nowak said that international law has “absolute priority.” His rationale was that a UN member state that voluntarily decides to sign and ratify a treaty is bound by the obligations of that treaty.

    http://frontpagemag.com/2009/10/23/un-international-law-has-absolute-authority-by-joseph-klein/

  63. The rest of your response hooey so no need explaining it away. I showed this General Eaton is a political hack and nothing more. Colin Powell lite.

    So Gorilla is a war hero and Curator and General Eaton are cowards. So much for your patriotism Tex.

    You seem to think because somebody serves, they are automatically decorated. For me, this is how it works. They start with congratulations for signing up. They serve honorably “and love their country” upon return, they have my regard. They come back a bitter, burned out Vet like Wally playing enemy of the state, they have my disdain.

    Now my comment on your flavor of patriotism Brother R. They love MaO Bama like Wally, they should be decorated with the Congressional Medal of Honor. They hate Bush, they can roll hand grenades into tents killing their brethren and still are to be congratulated.

    You yourself have admitted your own brand of service and loyalty to country is to leave “leftist” footprints all over the internet globe. Wonderful. My wife and I kept a child for someone during the first part of the War in 2002. What allegiance did you show Brother for love and country, for your fellow American, besides claiming it an unjust war? 😉

    P.S. – You’re scared to death of Dick Cheney. He exposes your weaknesses, both of mind, spirit, and false messiah.

  64. They serve honorably “and love their country” upon return,

    That why you hate Kerry? Cos he came back from Vietnam and said it was a mistake? Does a soldier by virtue of his service sacrifice his right to call it as he sees it? I fully agree that when you serve, it should be “yes Sir, at your command Sir!” (unless something clearly immoral or illegal is going on) but once you’ve finished your service, all bets are off. Then you get to give your free opinion of the experience you just endured.

    As for my fear of Cheney …. damn straight. Unhinged people scare me. However, I not only fear him, I intensely dislike him.

  65. I understand your hate of Cheney – you should hate him as he stands for everything MaO does not. Integrity, loyalty, and love of country. Add to the fact Cheney is brilliant, he’s MaO’s worst nightmare. He’s already exposed MaO and Rahm as liars once. Undoubtedly the teleprompter and the dinky pair of ballet tights didn’t learn their lesson the first time, so Cheney will once again slap their faces. Ahhhhh….

    I hate Kerry because he’s an opportunist and a phony. I can’t believe even you won’t admit that. How many Vietnam Vets carried around 8 millimeter projectors and flung somebody else’s medals over the White House wall as a “sign” of protest to show off their works? Completely void as was John F*cking Kerry’s pronunciation of Genghis Khan and his accusations of our soldiers being butchers.

    The Swift Boats with the help of T. Boone proved Kerry was a wretched man. He has since validated that as the country summarily rejected the bum.

  66. Tex,

    The only people that are unhinged are the people who dont question these marxists in power no matter what they do. Well and also unhinged for their obsession with private citizens like Sarah Palin.

  67. Elric …. read the comment threads very carefully. Do you see anyone here agreeing with your assessment of Sarah Palin as a “private citizen”? Even your staunchest buddies, such as Tex, don’t touch that one with a ten foot pole cos they know it’s nonsense.

    Hey Elric, will you be tuning in to watch your private citizen on Oprah in November. You don’t need to be a cable subscriber to see it. If you do watch it, make sure to have your box of Kleenex nearby (or maybe just watch it while wearing a condom.) 😉

  68. So much to go with…
    Thanks for responding earlier,my faith is somewhat restored in you R even though i don’t desire the burden of you appreciating any faith from me.
    It is even simpler though. Getting people riled up about your opponents is timeless and to the regard Obama will only get what he deserves except for those fringe forays of complete craziness. Those I dare say equal variants aimed at other prezzies. I had a great list that showcased the hate aimed at presidents back to Ike. it isn’t just an Obama thing.

    As for my Afghan policy comment and your rebuttal. If anyone doubts Obama envisions departure they’re crazy. I also can’t imagine he harbors any visions of victory since the window for that is close to being closed and will instantly be nailed that way. He along with a back and forth NATO have done a great and grave disservice to our servicemen and the Afghan people. My point that a decision MUST be made is quite sound. Nobody has to like the decision but nothing good froms the continued timid deliberations of Obama. Under no circumstance was Obama ever gonna cough up 80k troops. He doesn’t see the value and clearly sees how the math allows for higher US body counts. He doesn’t want that of that I give him his due.

    John Forbes “Lurch” “Liveshot” Kerry is a pathetic politician and lacks character. As much as I loathed Teddy K I steadfastly say here and now HE actually had more character and conviction thereof than the junior senator from PA. I of course say that since seeing as Kerry is married to crazy T Heinz he spends more time in her district than mine.

    I don’t know if I want to add to the counseling session re Cheney. Suffice to say I find Cheney cares for his country but exhibits signs of being a devout neo con. I don’t particularly like neo cons. I must say I found Dick to be a very professional VP and see no value in the thinking he was a great manipulator of W. I’d pose it to those that may care that Cheney and his neo con internationalist ways rounded out the false conservatism that embodied W.

  69. Regards the DC bureau taking a stand. They are united on a fiscal basis and I saw M. Liason from NPR speaking of how the cabal should be eliminated and the Oval be allowed to talk to whatever media entity they like. That is some crazy shit there folks. The President under no circumstances should harbor the desire to use the media or more importantly pick and choose how and what the American people hear. thats some spooky stuff man. I have the character to confess I’d be up in arms on that no matter the party of the Oval occupant.
    This is bad bad bad

  70. I don’t see Elrics post on Palin. With that said and the fact that even Elric can back me that I don’t like her how isn’t she a private citizen.
    It’s come up alot at RLB. The China speech was a joke. She was hired to entertain some US businessmen at a conference. Audience was like 150 right ? All/any jingoism from her was nothing but a chuckle fest since the biz types probably went on to ink import contracts on such things as lead toys and toxic sheetrock. She was like a B list mc get over it.
    Any and all other antics she attempts or enjoy don’t make her any less a private citizen. Al Gore is a private citizen as is Newt Gingrich. Does anyone disagree with that ? I don’t and think it applies to the former Gov of Alaska and former mayor of Wasilla quite well.

  71. Alfie,

    She is just an obsession with the left. I have not seen anyone get the left worked up like she does, not even Bush could do that. Its downright scary.

    And good ol Newt is a private citizen as well. Thankfully he just made himself irrelevant. Good riddance to that POS.

  72. anonymous Deeds distancing
    posted at 4:35 pm on October 23, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

    How did the Democratic activists react to the Obama administration tossing Creigh Deeds under the bus today with a series of anonymous quotes from inside the White House? David “Mudcat” Saunders, a well-known Democratic veteran, had no problem going on the record with CNN for a profanity-laced response. Saunders called the attack “bulls**t” and a “g*****n shame” (via Gary Gross):

    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/10/23/democratic-activist-wh-bullst-for-anonymous-deeds-distancing/

    LOL

  73. Congressman Says He Now Has ‘About 40 Likeminded Democrats’ Who Will Vote to Kill Health Bill if He Doesn’t Get Floor Vote on Pro-Life Amendment
    Friday, October 23, 2009
    By Terence P. Jeffrey, Editor-in-Chief

    (CNSNews.com) – Rep. Bart Stupak (D.-Mich.) told CNSNews.com yesterday that he has organized a group of “about 40 likeminded Democrats” who will vote to kill the health-care bill if House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D.-Calif.) does not allow a floor vote on his amendment to prohibit federal funds from going to insurance plans that cover abortion.

    http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/56023

    I must admit I didnt think Thuggy could destroy the demomarxist party this quick.

  74. “That why you hate Kerry? Cos he came back from Vietnam and said it was a mistake?” — R

    No, because he came back and lied about it. Christmas in Cambodia? The man is a liar, he didn’t need to be, but he did- there’s no reason to respect that.

  75. And good ol Newt is a private citizen as well. Thankfully he just made himself irrelevant. Good riddance to that POS.

    LOL Look I’m no Newt fan but he is considered one of the sharpest minds in the Republican party. No wonder you don’t like him. 😉

  76. “I’m basing my schism comment on the videos I posted where certain conservatives (e.g. Keene) are willing to call a whiner a whiner (i.e. Palin) and he gets attacked by another conservative, nutjob sympathizer (Ziegler). Now from what I understand Keene is no saint. Ziegler may have some valid issues with him, but calling Palin a whiner is not one of them.”

    You were better off using the crappy poll.

    A 3-person pissing match is not a schism.

    “We need leadership. Those who currently oppose Obama are nothing more than whiners. Let’s see some leaders.”

    Yes, let’s see a leader. One who can do something about the economy other than create huge deficits to get nothing done and whine about the prior adminstration.

    One that can make a solid decision on how to run a war, instead of waffling based on public opinion and whining about the prior administration.

    One that is self-confident enough to not have to launch attacks against those with opposing viewpoints and whine about the only news organization that doesn’t cater to him.

    You are exactly right. We need leadership, not whiners.

  77. RE:And good ol Newt is a private citizen as well. Thankfully he just made himself irrelevant. Good riddance to that POS.

    Then we have that glorious POS, Tom Daschle, good riddance. The next fringe democrats who need to go the way of Daschle are Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Maxine Waters, Barbara Boxer, Henry Waxman, John Murtha, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd.

    My God, how does anyone rationalize the need to align themselves to a political body with this steaming pile of sheet?

    Go ahead, name the Reps. I’ll wait. Don’t be surprise if I agree to them. They probably aren’t conservatives anyway but liberals or independents who after examining the demographics of their district, joined the party to increase their chances of getting elected.

  78. Ben,

    Im not going to vote for a party member just because the GOP tells me too. If that person doesnt represent my principles, Im not going to sell out. Thats how we got in this mess.

  79. Over the years, I have seen the Republican party drift from conservative values. (By they way, most liberals view the GOP as the party of “No”. Pretty absurd, but what can you expect from so-called “progressives” a moniker which is an oxymoron in the context of the Democrats.)

    It’s time to clean house.

  80. Ben, just out of curiosity, who in the House and Senate do you currently like? Please don’t say Jim DeMint. LOL

    You know which GOP’er I really like, despite a bit of a murky past on racial matters? Ron Paul! I find it fascinating that in the 2008 primary contest he was completely marginalized when he actually talked the most sense of any of the other contenders.

  81. I was extremely interested in Representative Tom Tancredo from Colorado’s 6th congressional district. He is now retired.

    I especially liked his positions on the following issues:
    He called for halting illegal immigration, and a three-year moratorium on all legal immigration to allow those immigrants already in the country to be assimilated.

    Tancredo criticized the Denver Public Library system for purchasing reading materials written in Spanish and for offering space for classes to be held for these library users, on the grounds that putting Spanish-speakers in a ‘linguistic ghetto’ would delay their integration into American society.

    His advocacy for immigration reform, and particularly his criticism of President George W. Bush’s border security controls made him an outcast in the Bush White House.

    “One reason I am persona non grata at the White House is not just because of immigration… but because I refuse to support him on his trade policy, his education policy, Medicare and prescription drugs initiatives…. Here was a Republican Congress increasing government to an extent larger than it had been increased since Medicare had come into existence.” – Tom Tancredo

    He was one of thirty-three congressmen to vote against the renewal of the Voting Rights Act because he asserted that its requirement of multilingual ballots would result in a costly unfunded mandate.

    He has suggested state legislators and ‘sanctuary city’ mayors should be imprisoned for passing laws contrary to federal immigration law.

    His position on the Iraq War.

    His advocacy for the adoption of a national policy to “take out” Muslim holy sites (specifically, Mecca) as a deterrent to and retaliation for a nuclear attack on U.S. cities by al-Qaeda. During a broadcast of a Republican Presidential Debate on May 15, 2007, he made a statement in passing that the root cause of Islamic terrorism is “a dictate of their religion.” Tancredo defended his remarks: “I still believe it is something we must consider as a possible deterrent because at the present time there are no negative consequences that would accrue to the people who commit a crime such as a nuclear, chemical or biological attack.”

    Tancredo was one of the few outspoken conservative opponents to the Sotomayor nomination by accurately claiming that Sotomayor was a racist. If you had reservations about Tancredo’s “murky past on racial matters”, you should have shared Tancredo’s position against Sotomayor for the same reasons. It would be rather hypocritical otherwise.

    It would appear Tancredo’s positions overlap some of DeMint’s, i.e. DeMint’s opposing the increase of Federal government spending.

    I see nothing wrong with DeMint’s position on school sponsored prayer and his legislation that would allow schools to display banners reading “God Bless America”. It sure as hell beats “All hail Obama.”

    I also see overlap of Tancredo’s immigration policies with DeMint’s advocacy of requiring all illegal immigrants currently in the United States to return to their home countries to apply for legal reinstatement. DeMint is also against the Guest Worker program and is in favor of establishing English as the country’s official language.

    So what about these policies do you disagree with? It is my contention that the adoption of these policies would remedy many of the problems which burden America today and may well have averted California’s current economic woes brought on in part due to lax immigration policies. In other words, take care of the basic issues and the rest pretty much takes care of itself.

    While many may criticize Tancredo and DeMint for their positions on certain policies, it remains clear to thinking people that the current policies on many of these same issues are what ails America today. After all, the Dems have been in control of the House and Senate for over 40 years. The country reflects the policies brought on by that control.

  82. There are many in congress who won’t share a water fountain with Ron Paul much less help him by sponsoring a bill. He has been wildly successful at marginalizing himself. Not the qualities I’m looking for in leadership.

  83. Furthermore, Ron Paul does not appear to know which side of the political fence he likes to walk on.

    He was a Republican from 1976-1988, a Libertarian during the 1988 Presidential Election and again a Republican from 1988 to present.

    Although he writes many bills, few escape committee review.

    Although I share his position on term limits and his legislation which requires lawmakers to take enough time to read bills before voting on them, I do not agree with his position against a National Identity Card system as I do not believe our SSN numbers should be used as such.

    At the age of 75, it is unlikely he will be seeing higher office and as such I consider him to be a political write-off.

  84. Ben, I won’t touch Tom Tancredo with a ten foot pole. You might be able to guess what I like about Paul. I like his stance on military engagement or lack thereof. He wants to bring just about everyone back home. Fantastic!

    I think he also advocates simplification of the tax code.

  85. RE:I like his stance on military engagement or lack thereof.
    Under what conditions do you see the need for military intervention?

    Do you understand the relationships between diplomacy, the military and government?

    Do you understand there are states in the world which would like to see the destruction of this country?

    Are you a pacifist?

  86. I wouldn’t call myself a pacifist because they just seem way too Pollyanish for my taste.

    I think we have a military presence in more places than we need to. Why are still in Germany and Japan?

    We need military intervention when our own physical safety is at risk. Unfortunately because we are addicted to foreign oil, we also must protect our financial interests.

    I doubt that Ron Paul is nutty enough to call home all soldiers on day 1 of his Presidency but I think he would start a reduction in our military presence around the world and I think that a good thing.

    P.S. How would we feel if various countries kept soldiers on our shores to protect their interests? We wouldn’t allow it.

  87. P.S. How would we feel if various countries kept soldiers on our shores to protect their interests? We wouldn’t allow it.

    Since most of us feel perfectly safe without a foreign presence, the question is moot. I’ll bet if we thought somebody would cut our loved one’s throats without a foreign military presence, we would welcome them with open arms and graciously thank them for their humanity.

    When we tried to leave parts of Germany a few years back after they wouldn’t support our Iraqi War effort, the locals howled and moaned about our staying. Seems our money was still required… 🙂

  88. RE:a reduction in our military presence around the world and I think that a good thing.
    Do you know what that would do to our operational response and effectiveness?

    RE:Why are still in Germany and Japan?
    I thought I answered this… we are there due to the conditions of their surrender to which those documents hold them.

    My dad was an officer in the U.S. Air Force. I was born into that life and left it at 20. During that time, I lived in Japan for 4 years. While there we moved a total of 4 times. Each time we left 1 base, it was closed. Since that time, U.S. control of Okinawa has been returned to Japan and more bases and facilities have continued to close.

    Minimizing our military presence in these countries effects our global reach which buys time for our adversaries in these regions. Reducing our response time is in itself a deterrent and means you and I remain safe and secure so we can run these dumb blogs.

    If you don’t understand this, the next time you see a cop car on the street with a radar gun, notice all of the brake lights going on as they enter his area of effectiveness. He’s a deterrent to high speed. It works. It is simple and it is well understood.

    Would you rather be without a police presence in your community? I doubt it.

    Maybe you should leave military matters to those who understand these fundamentals. I don’t think you would appreciate a layman telling you about how you should go about your profession.

    RE:How would we feel if various countries kept soldiers on our shores to protect their interests? We wouldn’t allow it.

    They would first have to have caused us to surrender. Thankfully for us and the rest of the world, that has not happened and we still speak English.

    As they say, war is hell, and there are consequences. In and of itself, the era following a war launched by an aggressor country who has met defeat also serves as a deterrent for other countries inclined to engage in military adventurism.

    Look – this isn’t about feelings. If it is for you then you are on the wrong plane of thought.

  89. http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/war.term/093_02.html

    Page 55

    Statement by the Governments of the United States of America, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, the United Kingdom and the Provisional Government of the French Republic on zones of occupation in Germany.

    1. Germany, within her frontiers as they were on Dec. 31, 1937, will, for the purposes of occupation, be divided into four zones, one to be allotted to each power as follows:

    An eastern zone to the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics;

    A northwestern zone to the United Kingdom;

    A southwestern zone to the United States of America;

    A western zone to France.

    The occupying forces in each zone will be under a commander in chief designated by the responsible power. Each of the four powers may, at its discretion, include among the forces assigned to occupation duties under the command of its commander in chief, auxiliary contingents from the forces of any other Allied power which has actively participated in military operations against Germany.

    2. The area of “Greater Berlin” will be occupied by forces of each of the four powers. An inter-Allied governing authority (in Russian, Komendatura) consisting of four commandants, appointed by their respective commanders-in-chief, will be established to direct jointly its administration.

    Page 56

    Statement by the Governments of the United States of America, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, United Kingdom, and the Provisional Government of the French Republic on control of machinery in Germany.

    1. In the period when Germany is carrying out the basic requirements of unconditional surrender, supreme authority in Germany will be exercised, on instructions from their Governments, by the Soviet, British, United States and French commanders-in-chief, each in his own zone of occupation, and also jointly, in matters affecting Germany as a whole. The four commanders-in-chief will together constitute the Control Council. Each commander-in-chief will be assisted by a political adviser.

    2. The Control Council, whose decisions shall be unanimous, will ensure appropriate uniformity of action by the commanders-in-chief in their respective zones of occupation and will reach agreed decisions on the chief questions affecting Germany as a whole.

    3. Under the Control Council, there will be a permanent coordinating committee composed of one representative of each of the four commanders-in-chief and a control staff organized in the following divisions (which are subject to adjustment in the light of experience): Military; naval; air; transport; political; economic; finance; reparation, deliveries and restitution; internal affairs and communications; legal; prisoners of war and displaced persons; manpower. There will be four heads of each division, one designated by each power. The staffs of the divisions may include civilian as well as military personnel, and may also in special cases include nationals

    Page 58

    Declaration regarding the defeat of Germany and the assumption of supreme authority with respect to Germany by the Governments of the United States of America, The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, and the United Kingdom, and the Provisional Government of the French Republic.

    The German armed forces on land, at sea and in the air have been completely defeated and have surrendered unconditionally and Germany, which bears responsibility for the war, is no longer capable of resisting the will of the victorious powers. The unconditional surrender of Germany has thereby been effected, and Germany has become subject to such requirements as may now or hereafter be imposed upon her.

    There is no central government or authority in Germany capable of accepting responsibility for the maintenance of order, the administration of the country and compliance with the requirements of the victorious powers.

    It is in these circumstances necessary, without prejudice to any subsequent decisions that may be taken respecting Germany, to make provision for the cessation of any further hostilities on the part of the German armed forces, for the maintenance of order in Germany and for the administration of the country, and to announce the immediate requirements with which Germany must comply.

    The representatives of the supreme commands of the United States of America, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, the United Kingdom and the French Republic, hereinafter called the “Allied representatives,” acting by authority of their respective

    Page 59

    Governments and in the interests of the United Nations, accordingly make the following declaration:

    The Governments of the United States of America, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and the United Kingdom, and the Provisional Government of the French Republic, hereby assume supreme authority with respect to Germany, including all the powers possessed by the German Government, the High Command and any state, municipal or local government or authority. The assumption, for the purposes stated above, of the said authority and powers does not effect the annexation of Germany.

    The Governments of the United States of America, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and the United Kingdom, and the Provisional Government of the French Republic, will hereafter determine the boundaries of Germany or any part thereof and the status of Germany or of any area at present being part of German territory.

    In virtue of the supreme authority and powers thus assumed by the four Governments, the Allied representatives announce the following requirements, arising from the complete defeat and unconditional surrender of Germany with which Germany must comply:

  90. Page 66, ARTICLE 13

    (A) In the exercise of the supreme authority with respect to Germany assumed by the Government of the United States of America, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, and the United Kingdom, and the Provisional Government of the French Republic, the four Allied Governments will take such steps, including the complete disarmament and demilitarization of Germany, as they deem requisite for future peace and security.

    (B) The Allied representatives will impose on Germany additional political, administrative, economic, financial, military and other requirements arising from the complete defeat of Germany. The Allied representatives, or persons or agencies duly designated to act on their authority, will issue proclamations, orders, ordinances and instructions for the purpose of laying down such additional requirements, and of giving effect to the other provisions of this declaration. All German authorities and the German people shall carry out unconditionally the requirements of the Allied representatives, and shall fully comply with all such proclamations, orders, ordinances and instructions.

  91. ARTICLE 14

    This declaration enters into force and effect at the date and hour set forth below. In the event of failure on the part of the German authorities or

    Page 67

    people promptly and completely to fulfill their obligations hereby or hereafter imposed, the Allied representatives will take whatever action may be deemed by them to be appropriate under the circumstances.

  92. Well, I’m sorry to answer your diligent documentation with a simple comment but is it really sensible and realistic that terms of surrender involve occupation in perpetuity? Don’t things change over time? Are Germany and Japan the same countries they were in the 1930’s and 40’s?

    You talk about reducing our response time …. to what? Is it America against the entire world? Is everyone out to get us such that we need to keep armed folks everywhere?

    A squad car on the local highway I live on makes good sense. You are right, folks don’t speed when they see that car there, and many don’t speed because they have seen that car there and fear it may be there again. However, do I want a cop parked outside my house 24/7 just in case someone wants to rob me? No. First, it invades my privacy and second, I’m not that paranoid.

    Your version of foreign relations just ooozes with paranoia. And by the way, why should we have “global reach” and the Muslims should not?

    I believe countries should get along the same way most of us get along with our neighbors. We mind our own damn business. We help each other meet mutual goals and we respect each other’s property. I fully agree that we need to treat countries who don’t act that way differently from those who do. This does not equate to a military with “global reach”.

    I know it’s not fair to put words in your mouth, but I think you are really in favor of America being the policeman of the entire planet, and if you had it your way, we would enforce our ideology (including Christianity) on everyone else.

  93. @ ben I’m actually gonna side with Rutherford here.
    The treaties were not meant to last forever and although we exerted influence on post war democratic actions in the former Axis nations we clearly pulled away over time.
    Many of our overseas deployments heralded back to coal fueling. The theory bore fruit with the enhancement of things like power projection. A nuclear Navy however doesn’t need coal and we are masters of UNREP. Our ability to project power has not suffered,well at least not for anything our WWII era treaties supplied.We even eventually used the items we had stashed at Diego Garcia.
    Fast forward to later 20th century events France and Turkey have screwed us. In both cases their objections of our use of air and air/land space (respectively) cost us lives,time and money.
    I see your life in Japan and raise you everyone ever stationed in Germany or Korea. Why were they there? TO DIE is the short answer. In Europe we were always meant to slow the Russian and Warsaw Pact troops down until the inevitable use of theater nukes. Korea gave us DMZ forces that were to die to justify our absolute annihilation of the NK and keep China at bey via international outrage.
    We live in a different world now and we need some leadership that can help figure out exactly where we are.

  94. RE:Well, I’m sorry to answer your diligent documentation with a simple comment but is it really sensible and realistic that terms of surrender involve occupation in perpetuity? Don’t things change over time? Are Germany and Japan the same countries they were in the 1930’s and 40’s?

    I didn’t write the thing. You asked and I answered. Take it up with the framers of the document. Write you congressman and tell them that in your opinion we should leave immediately and just let the chips fall where they may.

  95. RE:You talk about reducing our response time …. to what? Is it America against the entire world? Is everyone out to get us such that we need to keep armed folks everywhere?
    You are naive.

    RE:We live in a different world now and we need some leadership that can help figure out exactly where we are.
    No, we don’t

    RE:The treaties were not meant to last forever …
    Who said that? If there is an expiration date on the thing then all we need to do is wait and you’ll be happy.

    RE:I know it’s not fair to put words in your mouth.
    Then don’t

    RE:We mind our own damn business
    Isolationist.

    RE:their objections of our use of air and air/land space (respectively) cost us lives,time and money.
    Congratulations. You’ve just made my point about the importance of U.S. forces stationed abroad.

    Next subject please.

  96. Isolationists/ism not a bad thing.
    The forces I mentioned were delayed from overseas bases so your point is not proven other than it being proven it doesn’t matter.
    We totally need better leadership Ben I can’t imagine you fail to see that.
    The treaties did have time limits implied. Just look at Japan now debating whether it should attain an offensive military capability. Even the Germans are debating their military.
    Ben are you a neo con? neo colonialist ? just curious

  97. Alfie,

    RE:Germany or Korea. Why were they there? TO DIE is the short answer.

    If you believe that, we should have killed them first, then stationed them. If you’re going to make flippant statements like that then you can expect the same in return.

    RE:In Europe we were always meant to slow the Russian and Warsaw Pact troops down until the inevitable use of theater nukes.

    You left out… “in the defense of our European allies.”

    RE:A nuclear Navy however doesn’t need coal and we are masters of UNREP.

    Yep. But is still takes days to redirect the fleet into a new area of operations.

    RE:Isolationists/ism not a bad thing.

    Chamberlain once said, “How horrible, fantastic it is that we should be digging trenches and trying on gas-masks here because of a quarrel in a far away country between people of whom we know nothing. I am myself a man of peace from the depths of my soul.”

    What a fool.

    Following your vision to avoid becoming involved in European alliances and wars, what would you have done with the rise of fascism in Europe and Nazi-Germany? Remember, every demand Hitler made during the early phases leading to war was met with inaction and capitulation. It only served to embolden. Chamberlain is later seen stepping off an aircraft and waiving a paper headed “Anglo–German Agreement” signed by Hitler and himself. German Foreign Minister Joachim von Ribbentrop voiced his protest to signing the document. Hitler responded by saying “Oh, don’t take it so seriously. That piece of paper is of no further significance whatever.”

    Chamberlain, on the other hand, was elated with his “achievement” and upon return to London, he addressed a crowd saying, “My good friends, this is the second time there has come back from Germany to Downing Street peace with honour. I believe it is peace for our time. We thank you from the bottom of our hearts. Now I recommend you go home, and sleep quietly in your beds.”

    Chamberlain was a pacifist. He was also naive and unwise to the ways and plans of tyrants who had designs for his and other nations. Indeed, he was a fool who failed to grasp the forces in the world. While Chamberlain and many others celebrated the document with elation, Churchill and his supporters believed there was no cause for celebration. They were correct about their concern for a year later Germany invaded Poland on Sept 1, 1939.

    RE:We totally need better leadership Ben I can’t imagine you fail to see that.

    I agree. Afghanistan is beyond the intellectual capacity of Obama. He’s over his head. It shouldn’t take over a month to grant McChrystal’s request.

    RE:Just look at Japan now debating whether it should attain an offensive military capability.
    Really? I always understood that their constitution, created under the guidance of the occupying forces, prohibited the creation of a military force with offensive capabilities. They can defend themselves but not wage war. For example, their Air Force does not have a long range capability.

    Under Article 9 of the constitution the “Japanese people forever renounce war as a sovereign right of the nation and the threat or use of force as means of settling international disputes”. To this end the article provides that “land, sea, and air forces, as well as other war potential, will never be maintained”. The constitution has not been amended once since its 1947 enactment.

    RE:Ben are you a neo con? neo colonialist ?
    No, I do not believe in “planting” democracy via military intervention for the sake of democracy. However, if we must wage a war, I’m in it for the proper reasons i.e. Afghanistan and Iraq. Once we removed Iraq’s genocidal dictator, I find that having only the 3rd democratic form of government in the Middle East suits me.

    I find it odd no one objected to Clinton getting orally gratified by Monica while he was on the phone discussing whether to send U.S. forces in Boznia without a U.N. resolution.

  98. RE:at times downright nasty rhetoric

    How would you classify Obama’s immature attack upon those who disagree with his policies? I refer to Sen. Tom Coburn who on Tuesday urged the Obama White House to show “more maturity and less partisanship,” arguing that the administration’s attempt to marginalize critics has backfired.

  99. The quintessential liberal lives in San Francisco.

    —–

    San Franciso Upholds ‘Sanctuary City’

    Board approves measure to keep police from turning over minors to immigration unless a felony is committed

    —–

    Defend this. Please. I’d like to hear it.

  100. Ben first to your charge that I’ve been flippant. As an Amy veteran who participated in REFORGER exercises and one with many friends that served in Korea,Turkey and Europe I’m not being flip when I say the troops were there to die.I knew it,my friends knew it,the Soviets and N.Koreans et al knew it.
    As for Japan they may very well be changing their constitution in 2010. they have regional fears and unless the new guys do something I think we’ll see something go.
    My strategic charter in simple terms would go like this. Sovereignty Matters. Mind our own business,choose our friends wisely and when it comes time to face an enemy show no mercy.

  101. I have to ask those that bash Newt on the NY 23rd thing. Have any of you actually read/listened to his reasoning?

    Yes, and I disagreed with just about all of it. Newt is quickly becoming a purveyor of bad advice for the Conservative movement IMHO. The establishment and his amorality have corrupted a very talented man.

  102. Well thanks Tex and Elric for answering. I am in line with Newt on the thought that this isn’t necessarily the best precedent to set though. Whether something good comes of this I don’t know.

  103. Alfie,

    RE:Mind our own business,choose our friends wisely and when it comes time to face an enemy show no mercy.

    And when you see events which threaten the interests and security of the United States which can be averted with the use of covert or overt military action, would you choose to continue to “mind our own business” which, in effect, isn’t?

  104. Sovereignty Matters. Mind our own business,choose our friends wisely and when it comes time to face an enemy show no mercy.

    I think I could sign up for that with one alteration:

    Sovereignty Matters. Mind our own business,choose our friends [and wars] wisely and when it comes time to face an enemy show no mercy.

  105. I have to ask those that bash Newt on the NY 23rd thing.

    I hope that wasn’t directed at me. I sympathize with Newt … Palin/Pawlenty etal is gonna screw up that election big time.

    Turns out, Hoffman doesn’t even live in the district … a friggin carpet bagger. When the Dem wins the seat, there will be hell to pay. It will be very interesting to see who prevails … Palin or Gingrich. Is Palin the face of the new GOP and Newt a relic? Only time will tell.

  106. Ben too vague a query. Foreign policy or domestic policy for that matter can’t be such a blanket statement kind of thing.
    I’m a very mixed bag here. I don’t dig Kissinger type diplomacy of picking the better despot for example. I would’ve thrown the French under the bus and worked w/Ho back in the day to see if his admiration for America and our Constitution could’ve been tweaked for our mutual betterment. I would not have done the Bay of Pigs I would’ve splashed the Libyan MiGs. I would’ve found a way to work with Ortega I would not have supported Operation Ajax I would’ve gone to Korea but not necessarily Vietnam. Definitely yes on Afghanistan but I would’ve left by now and I would not have ended Gulf One the way it happened ergo Iraq wouldn’t have happened.

  107. R it wasn’t it was a general question for anyone. I actually respect that people have their views and principles. I also believe in a number of cases a bad republican is a bitter nasty pill that is still better than a dem.
    America truly is center right and a rage of vote splitting will only help the dems and more so the ultra Left.
    For example (this should be a post at my place Snowe and Collins suck but they also represent the reality that Maine would otherwise be true blue forever if they leave/turn. Biide your time with them and see if you can muster up a better GOP in Maine. Mass for example the Dems aspiring to replace Ted K are wildly trying to out lib each other. Our AG has gone on record stating it isn’t her place to enforce the law (immigration) She is also on record for stating that her sisters ex patriot status are quality FP creds. Hahaha. We suck so bad here. Anyway there is an example of differing mind sets and issues at hand. I’d add a third. A NY republican isn’t the same as a Texan or South Carolina republican. get used to that folks and find those principles where reality is.

  108. Elric…dissing the electorate and splitting the ticket in a scenario that will leave a conservative with their principles intact but their district forever real blue. Like it or not Dede is a republican, a New York one like Rudy but still…

  109. “Like it or not Dede is a republican, a New York one like Rudy but still…”

    Spector claimed he was one too, that worked out real well, didnt it?

    “Elric…dissing the electorate and splitting the ticket in a scenario that will leave a conservative with their principles intact but their district forever real blue.”

    Who is dissing the electorate? More like the GOP is by attacking anyone who doesnt support their RINO. This is exactly why I dont give to the GOP. I’ll donate to the individual candidate. Not letting the RINO decide where my money goes.

    We played the “Support the RINO” strategy for 2 election cycles and look where we are at now. Sorry, not going to be suckered into it again.

  110. What part don’t you get ?
    Hoffman lost the Republican nod handily so he went cry baby and signed on with a third party. He is now draining votes that should’ve elected the republican candidate.

  111. “What part don’t you get ?
    Hoffman lost the Republican nod handily so he went cry baby and signed on with a third party. He is now draining votes that should’ve elected the republican candidate.”

    So? I could care less if he lost out in some backroom deal. Considering he is leading in the polls, I would say that the RINO is draining points from him, not the otherway around.

    We played your game for 2 cycles, not playing it anymore.

  112. RE:French under the bus and worked w/Ho back in the day to see if his admiration for America and our Constitution could’ve been tweaked for our mutual betterment

    As much as we like to bash the French I am reminded that the French we hold up to criticize consisted of a government holding to a political ideology which did not represent its citizens. It is very much like what we have in our country today. I whole-heartily expect Obama to surrender to our enemies and hand the U.S. over to an invading Islamic army. Remember, the French came to our aid, as did Spain ,to help us against the British and you want to throw them under the bus for the prospects of supporting a communist regime. I can’t believe you were in the U.S. military.

    RE:I would’ve splashed the Libyan MiGs.
    Amazing. In spite of the fact that since that time Libya changed their policies even to the point of admitting their role in the Pan Am bombing and the subsequent reparations to the families of the passengers aboard, you still cannot see the value of limited engagement to communicate resolve when diplomacy proves ineffective.

    Reagan’s little note to Kadaffi was an effective one. He got the message loud and clear and you are incapable of seeing it.

    RE:Definitely yes on Afghanistan but I would’ve left by now
    With what goal in hand would you be leaving?

    While we wait for our community organizer for a president to respond to McChrystal’s request for more troops, I note that 8 more American soldiers died in Afghanistan on Tuesday making October the deadliest month for United States forces since the 2001 invasion.

    Let’s leave now and render those deaths meaningless, shall we?

  113. Did you whine when Liberman lost in the primary and ran as an Independent?

    Kind of a dumb question if it’s directed at Alfie, who skews right if I’m not mistaken. By the very principle he is illustrating, Alfie would have been delighted by Lieberman going independent in the hope that it would give votes to the Republican. At it turns out Ned Lamont must have been a piss poor candidate for Lieberman to beat him …. indies seldom win.

    Hey, I’d love the idea of a third party being able to thrive in this country and offer some real alternative to the DEM/GOP choice but the truth is it just doesn’t happen most of the time. So all Hoffman is doing is screwing over the GOP.

    I’ll say this Elric … if Hoffman wins then it may very well be indicative of a tide change in this country and it may very well send a message to the GOP to choose their candidates more carefully … and more to the right.

    As a side note, from what I understand, Hoffman is a himbo. Not well versed on the issues … a generalist … the same word one could generously call his supporter, Sarah Palin.

  114. Ben,

    I remember Thuggy campaigning and said we needed more troops. So where the hell are they? I know golfing, throwing parties and campaigning for donations are more important than the lives of our troops but come on.

  115. RE:Definitely yes on Afghanistan but I would’ve left by now
    With what goal in hand would you be leaving?

    Ben I read more into Alfie’s comment than perhaps you did. When he said he would have left by now, he means (I think) he would’ve fought the Afghan war correctly in the first place (which Bush DIDN’T) and then we could be out by now.

    Ben, the biggest hole in your foreign policy (much like Bush) is that you have NO end game. You tell me … under what conditions do we leave Afghanistan? Once every Taliban member is dead? Once the whole country is converted from Islam to Christianity? Or are you perfectly happy with an interminable occupation?

  116. Alfie,

    dissing the electorate and splitting the ticket in a scenario that will leave a conservative with their principles intact but their district forever real blue. Like it or not Dede is a republican, a New York one like Rudy but still…

    What good does it do to elect a “Republican in name” when they act and vote like a liberal Democrat? And a Southern Republican may be very different from a Northern Republican, but a Conservative is pretty much the same from place to place.

    Another RINO? Forget it. Let the chips fall where they will but I’m not buying the argument anymore about party affiliation. It leaves us with Arlen Specter, Olympia Snowe, and Lincoln Chaffee – all equally as useless as Harry Reid; perhaps worse.

    If you want to continue to march toward this imagined moderate Republican, so be it. But soon, it will be your party that is marginalized and worth nothing. And the only reason Rutherford is backing you is that he realizes the only way for Dims to now stay in power as they’ve been exposed as the party of failure is to continue to tacitly support Republican candidates that vote like a Democrat.

    For a time, it may appear to fools like Rutherford that it’s his ticket to success. It won’t be…

  117. So tell Rutherford, in your genius. You make this comment:

    When he said he would have left by now, he means (I think) he would’ve fought the Afghan war correctly in the first place (which Bush DIDN’T) and then we could be out by now.

    Want to tell all of us what your imagined hero MaO has done right that Bush did wrong in Afghanistan? Apparently, the number of deaths tell quite a different story. It would appear MaO the incompetent, spineless pussy is completely clueless – the military is certainly beginning to think so.

  118. For a time, it may appear to fools like Rutherford that it’s his ticket to success. It won’t be…

    Truth is Tex, I’d make a smarter Republican than 90% of the current bunch. It’s a real shame I don’t share your ideology ‘cos you need me dude. 🙂

  119. Elric,

    Even if it had by chance worked, the system itself isn’t working. Even if McCain by chance had won, this vicious cycle of growing government would have continued – albeit at a slower pace.

    I told people last year that the best thing that could happen to Conservatives would be for Obama to win and not another limp dick moderate Republican, so that finally people might get off their collective asses and radically change this whole Washington scene.

    Let the clueless like Rutherford smile with glee about the perceived split – so did the captain of the Titanic when he took up to about 20 knots. Trust me, the iceberg is dead ahead even if the woefully blind don’t see it coming.

  120. Tex,

    It was better that Thuggy won. This healthcare still would have been pushed by Pelosi and with Juan in the White House the RINO’s wouldnt have dug their heels in to oppose Juan as he would have probably supported it, as well as the cap and trade.

    The people wanted change and now they have it. Thing is, Conservatives want change too. Just not this thugocracy that we have now. Nor do we even want to go back to Bush who did help this along in his last 2-3 years.

  121. Want to tell all of us what your imagined hero MaO has done right that Bush did wrong in Afghanistan?

    Sorry, your question moves the goal posts. I was offering my interpretation of Alfie’s statement which had nothing to do, from my POV, with Obama and everything to do with Bush.

    General McKiernan’s request for more troops in Afghanistan sat on Bush’s desk while he “dithered”. (It took Obama to satisfy the request.) LMAO.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/oct/23/robert-gibbs/white-house-spokesman-robert-gibbs-fires-back-chen/

  122. Rutherford,

    Truth is Tex, I’d make a smarter Republican than 90% of the current bunch. It’s a real shame I don’t share your ideology ‘cos you need me dude.

    Well, if you want to know the real truth Rutherford, out of my pack of politically active friends in the know, I’d rate you about a 2 on a 10 scale (10 being quite knowledgeable) with Olbermann coming in at a 1. But if you’re as good as you claim, perhaps you could lend your prophet a hand as you have the “Come to Obama” moment? MaO seems to be in desperate need of help at the moment, as nobody can pinpoint one success yet.

    We’d let you get us some Gatorade and make you feel like a member of the team, if and when you decide to be “reborn” and turn away from your wicked ways! 🙂

  123. Sorry, your question moves the goal posts

    Yeah, back to the playing field, being you can’t answer a question anymore. When did you become such a coward Rutherford? I don’t remember you being so thin-skinned over at Chen’s place.

    You’ve really taken Obama’s miserable performance personally, haven’t you? You sunk your heart and soul (what little you have) into this conniving turd’s success and it just didn’t work out like you had planned. I get it.

    I know what would make you feel better. Write up another Sarah Palin thread – that is about right up your alley. 🙂

  124. This took me about 5 minutes to look up President Obama’s successes in his first 100 days.

    He, created a foreclosure prevention fund for homeowners.
    He will prohibit credit card companies from raising rates on existing balances.
    Expand eligibility for State Children’s Health Insurance Fund (SCHIP)
    Signed the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities.
    He lifted restrictions on federal funding for embryonic stem-cell research.

    Come on Tex….buddy….you can try harder.

  125. Ben pretty soon after we liberated France the French yet again reneged on loans etc. I see no reason the USA needed to bow to Frances desire to rekindle their colonies. It is in that context and not the Revolutionary War nor the respectful tending of the Normandy graves that I make my case. We have today a hindsight that is 20/20 and influenced by our experiences. I believe there was a far different potential if in the 1950’s Southeast Asia.
    As for Afghanistan I would’ve uprooted and killed as many Taliban and left. End of story. I’d do that with the full support of history of the Soviets,British and others supporting me. A centralized democracy in Afghanistan just ain’t gonna happen. I think one of the biggest things that will make the loss of life meaningless is ratchetting up the body count.
    I am an honorably discharged medic who served with the 4th ID btw.
    Tex. I appreciate your discourse. Specter is a pretty unique creature “magic bullet” and all. As for Chaffee a spoiled brat but seriously…Rhode freaking Island dude. Also I’m no fan of Snowe/Collins but as a New Englander I need something resembling a two part system. New Hampshire can’t survive alone.
    As for the vaunted last two cycle thing. Cycles are a reality in politics and I’m all for the GOP being slapped around a bit to remember it place. I also think that what way too many people identify as conservative is out of touch,time and energy. The GOP has forfeited the ideas game since Gingrich departed. There are many with really good ideas,far better than anything from the other side of the spectrum,but their voices are shouted down due to abortion,death penalty or gays points.
    Also for Tex and Elric specifically but anyone else in general have you seen mcHughs record ? Who is he more like ? I’m saying not Hoffman.

  126. Wally,

    He, created a foreclosure prevention fund for homeowners.

    That couldn’t pay for the home to begin with, subsidizing more votes at taxpayer expense. By the way, nice job on the new housing market.

    He will prohibit credit card companies from raising rates on existing balances.

    All the while saddling your children by quadrupling the national debt on interest they can’t possibly pay. Excellent job Wally.

    Expand eligibility for State Children’s Health Insurance Fund (SCHIP)

    Another freebie (all ‘fer the children) at taxpayer expense, complete with government initiated fraud. Do you think these things are free Wally? As a state employee, sure you do!!!

    Signed the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities.

    This is a good thing? Coordinating the effort through the food for fuel frauds that helped to enrich Saddam whilie padding their own pockets? 😆

    He lifted restrictions on federal funding for embryonic stem-cell research.

    Super! First we can’t afford it, second it is proving futile science and finally you condone more infanticide.

    Come on Wally. What took you five minutes took me five seconds to refute.

    Like you, MaO is worthless.

  127. I notice Tex you’ve got nothing to say about the Politifact link. Truth hurts doesn’t it?

    You mean another one of your links to a shill lib organization masquerading as objective? Gawd Rutherford, you are getting desperate to defend the incompetent one. This charge is lame even for somebody as weak as you.

    A little about Polifact.com – and the truth that Rutherford doesn’t want you to know…

    http://pondrings.org/?p=849

  128. Curator you proud of that list ? Not a lot of accomplishment there. Foreclosures way up. SCHIP not his baby he just signed it. Much like everything else. It’s like voting present.
    UN thing completely toothless and a case could be made that 8 out of the 12 council memeber states suck on human rights abled or disabled.
    You forgot his only real accomplishment. The ledbetter thing. More lawsuits yeah!

  129. There are many with really good ideas,far better than anything from the other side of the spectrum,but their voices are shouted down due to abortion,death penalty or gays points.

    The first time I heard this point made, it was by David Frum. Now love or hate the guy, I think he makes perfect sense. Conservatives have let social conservatism distract them from the fiscal conservative agenda they should have been pursuing. Gay rights is here to stay, get used it.

  130. Gay rights is here to stay, get used it.

    We are. Prop 8 made it abundantly clear, but when you didn’t like the result, you resorted back to the only form of authority you know – by judicial fiat.

    Take it up with Jesus Big “R” – you’ll get your chance.

  131. R

    RE:Ben I read more into Alfie’s comment than perhaps you did. When he said he would have left by now, he means (I think) he would’ve fought the Afghan war correctly in the first place (which Bush DIDN’T) and then we could be out by now.

    Are we back to playing that interpretation game? I’m accustomed to taking people at their word and saying what they mean. To infer meaning leaving the listener or reader to interpret is both a waste of time, based upon supposition, inaccurate and in some cases, dangerous. It even leaves you guessing and extending his train of thought on your own terms. If he wants me to get a clearer idea about what he meant he should express himself, which I expect.

    I don’t remember Bush ignoring his general’s request for 40,000 extra troops and then running off to play golf and attend DNC fund raisers.

    RE:Ben, the biggest hole in your foreign policy (much like Bush) is that you have NO end game. You tell me … Once every Taliban member is dead? Once the whole country is converted from Islam to Christianity? Or are you perfectly happy with an interminable occupation?

    I don’t recall publishing an end game to warrant your baseless accusation, but since you asked in an off-handed way, let me begin by laying down the current situation.

    Al-Qaeda. I don’t need to mention much else about them save for the fact they want to destabilize Pakistan for obvious reasons. For those out there without a clue as to what that happens to be I’ll borrow and modify Carville’s famous line – “It’s the Nukes, stupid.”

    As long as the Taliban reigns supreme, we are threatened with that possibility of Al-Qaeda getting access to one and then following up on their threat to use them.

    I feel like I’m restating my position. No matter.

    It is in the interests of the United States to assist Pakistan with her efforts to defeat the Taliban/Al-Qaeda insurgents in her country. We need to continue with our support of the fledgling democracy in Afghanistan whose future is joined at the hip to Pakistan which many analysts classify as the most dangerous country in the world. We leave Afghanistan when she demonstrates a proven ability to defend herself and the political will to do it.

    The trouble with your cut-n-run strategy is that while you view it as a law enforcement problem, it will result in more deaths than just the 4,000 American troops who have given their lives so far. We cannot afford Pakistan to fall.

    Would you like to see that? Would you enjoy seeing an Al-Qaeda assisted Taliban get to those nukes and run into Afghanistan with one? How about they place it in the cargo hold of a freighter and sail into New York harbor with it? Nice, huh?

    As long as that threat persists I expect our involvement in the region will continue. It’s otherwise ludicrous to think we can circle a day on a calendar and once that day arrives we announce “Done!” and high-tail it back home to hope for the best.

    But you want it nice and clean in a neat package. Grow up. Those are fantasies.

  132. Take it up with Jesus Big “R” – you’ll get your chance.

    What I wouldn’t pay for some biblical scholar to discover that Jesus was bi. Just to watch all those evangelical judgmental heads explode. 🙂

  133. I don’t remember Bush ignoring his general’s request for 40,000 extra troops and then running off to play golf and attend DNC fund raisers.

    Yes Ben … Bush ignored McKiernan’s request for eight months while our soldiers died.

  134. We leave Afghanistan when she demonstrates a proven ability to defend herself and the political will to do it.

    So, what do you think are the odds of that? What will make Afghanistan capable of that? A strong central government that commands the respect of all the tribal regions? When will that happen?

    Like I said, you are perfectly content with interminable occupation. If that is the only way to prevent an al-Qaeda-nuke situation, then I might agree with you. I’m just not so sure.

  135. “I don’t remember Bush ignoring his general’s request for 40,000 extra troops and then running off to play golf and attend DNC fund raisers.”

    I remember Thuggy campaigning he would and 9 months later we have the worst month yet in deaths in Afghanistan. I hope Thuggy improved his golf score or those deaths will have been in vain.

  136. Rutherford,

    What I wouldn’t pay for some biblical scholar to discover that Jesus was bi. Just to watch all those evangelical judgmental heads explode.

    You’d be too late. The pack of liars of which you are a part tried all that before to be shot down. But nonetheless, that part of Jonah in me is going to enjoy watching you burn with them. May Mohammed raze your rectum for eternity. 🙂

  137. R-

    RE:Yes Ben … Bush ignored McKiernan’s request for eight months while our soldiers died.

    Not quite.

    McKiernan’s request was a moving target. He kept adding requests on top of previous requests which ultimately added up to roughly 30,000 more troops, a combination of combat units and support troops.

    Throughout most of 2008, the Bush administration tried to get NATO countries to fill that gap but by the late summer, 2008 Bush administration officials realized NATO wasn’t going to come through.

    In September 2008 that led the Pentagon to order 2,000 Marines to replace Marines sent to Afghanistan in January as a one-time deployment. It also ordered in the first of the additional four combat brigades that McKiernan had requested. This unit of 3,700 soldiers would arrive in January, 2009 and had been originally scheduled to deploy to Iraq.

    In December 2008, President Bush sent 2,800 troops to Afghanistan from an aviation brigade that McKiernan had also requested.

    McKiernan’s outstanding requests for more forces accumulated throughout 2008 to roughly 30,000 soldiers.

  138. R –

    RE:So, what do you think are the odds of that? What will make Afghanistan capable of that? A strong central government that commands the respect of all the tribal regions? When will that happen?

    Nowhere in any of my answers to your questions did I suggest or infer that this would be easy. This problem didn’t come with a set of instructions which merely says “Insert part A into part B and tear along the dotted line.” to give us our desired outcome. I don’t believe I have to mention the problem is fluid and conditions change.

    Since we started getting involved with it, Pakistan has seen a political assassination and a head of government change. She is rife with internal conflict and can barely pass for having a civil society but still light years beyond Afghanistan’s.

    RE:Like I said, you are perfectly content with interminable occupation. If that is the only way to prevent an al-Qaeda-nuke situation, then I might agree with you. I’m just not so sure.

    Look, we didn’t ask for these cards we were dealt with but there they are. We had better sit up and sober up and look at it for what it is. It’s the biggest threat this nation has seen since the Cuba Missile Crisis and you act like we can wash our hands of it and send in the police and interpol while we go about washing our cars and watching football here at home. We have a gun at our head and you want to BBQ on Sunday like there’s no problem to worry about.

    What is your glorious plan to prevent an al-Qaeda-nuke situation? What would you intend to do if you had to secure the future of America in the face of the threats coming from that region? Would you sit down and try to negotiate with the Taliban, the same group of towel heads who gave us the finger when we asked them kindly to deliver bin Laden to us? Would you sit idly and watch Pakistan and Afghanistan fall knowing the Taliban and Al-Qaeda get possession of a dozen or more nukes and pissing all over themselves with the fresh opportunity to use them? Once in their hands, there will be so many volunteers to be part of the operation they’ll have to devise a lottery system to keep the selection process fair. They’ll probably shoot each other just to eliminate anyone getting in their way of glory and those virgins waiting for them in paradise. Hell, it may happen anyway with the way Pakistan has delayed action until now. She is literally fighting for her future as well. Finally, she “gets it.”, but it may well be too late.

    I’m sitting here now wondering about this scenario of Pakistan falling despite her willingness to only now step up to the plate to save her own fat ass. I’m sitting here thinking about that recent and urgent request for funding to purchase 4 Massive Ordinance Penetrators which I originally thought would be for Iran.
    http://rightamerican.wordpress.com/2009/10/07/will-usaf-drop-calling-card-upon-iran-nuke-facilities/ Now I wonder.

    Maybe it won’t be the interminable occupation you believe I want.

  139. If it turns out that Obama is delaying McChrystal’s request for more American ground troops on the basis that he is waiting for the outcome of Pakistan’s operations to enable him to more accurately determine the requirement, then more power to him.

    But I’m reminded he’s just a community organizer.

  140. But I’m reminded he’s just a community organizer.

    Kinda silly. Accepting your terminology, he’s a community organizer surrounded by competent military advisers. Or do you now not trust the military just because Obama is the CiC?

  141. Rutherford,

    If his military advisers competent as you suggest, why isn’t the MaO listening to them then? We trust the military – we don’t trust MaO because of his glaring invertebrate nature.

    Here, I should have posted this truth here:

  142. R-

    RE:Accepting your terminology, he’s a community organizer surrounded by competent military advisers.

    and

    RE:RE:Or do you now not trust the military just because Obama is the CiC?

    Thank you, Tex for making the point for me i.e. “If his military advisers competent as you suggest, why isn’t the MaO listening to them then? We trust the military – we don’t trust MaO because of his glaring invertebrate nature.”

  143. If his military advisers competent as you suggest, why isn’t the MaO listening to them then?

    Ben you should always be careful quoting Tex because Tex is doing his best lately to stick his head as far up his ass as his buddy Elric.

    Why do you armchair generals assume that the military is monolithic and that every one of Obama’s military advisers is telling him the same thing? Obama is weighing his options before sending more men and women (in many cases, not much older than boys and girls) to die. What about that is so hard for you to understand?

    I heard a comment yesterday on TV that really resonated with me. A good question for both you and Tex … if you’re so eager to go off to Afghanistan, when are your kids enlisting? You’re so eager for O to send in those 40,000 extra troops … when are your kids getting in line to join the 40K?

  144. RE:Why do you armchair generals

    Would that include you, as well? Probably…. as long as you have an opinion on the topic.

    RE:assume that the military is monolithic and that every one of Obama’s military advisers is telling him the same thing?

    There you go again. Putting words into my mouth. Consequently, since I never said nor implied the above, I won’t comment on it.

    RE:Obama is weighing his options before sending more men and women (in many cases, not much older than boys and girls) to die. What about that is so hard for you to understand?

    On comment #208, I said this : “If it turns out that Obama is delaying McChrystal’s request for more American ground troops on the basis that he is waiting for the outcome of Pakistan’s operations to enable him to more accurately determine the requirement, then more power to him.”

    You really should slow down, read, think, then carefully form a sensible retort. There will be a lot less easy stuff to poke you in the ribs with if you did. I’m only here to help. 😉

    RE:if you’re so eager to go off to Afghanistan, when are your kids enlisting? You’re so eager for O to send in those 40,000 extra troops … when are your kids getting in line to join the 40K?

    If that is what my son wants to do – to serve his country – that is his decision. I will never stand in his way on that. Me? I’m too old to enlist, but I would like to help defend America’s future existence from those who are fighting every day to end that existence.

    And you? Why are you so willing to ignore this threat against America ? Why won’t you just get out of the way and let our military do its job of defending her? After all, your future as well as mine are tied directly to what is going on over there.

    You really, really need to read this.
    http://www.newsweek.com/id/57485
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1568535/Pakistan-the-worlds-most-dangerous-country.html

    “If the greatest threats to global security come from terrorism, nuclear weapons and the spread of failed states, Pakistan stands at the nexus of all three phenomena. The political fortunes of this vast country of 165 million people could scarcely be of greater importance.”

    “Throw in the fact that Pakistan possesses between 40 and 60 nuclear warheads and all this becomes even more worrying. America has helped install a sophisticated command-and-control structure to secure Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal.”

    Sleep well. I know you will.

  145. I just heard that Obama wants to buy Taliban’s loyalty.

    Isn’t that just like the creative thinking we’ve come to expect from this community organizer? We’ll just buy our way out of the problem.

    We’ll be spending more money we don’t have and when China starts to lean on us, we’ll declare bankruptcy and hand over the collateral of the United States over to her.

    Isn’t this hope and change thing just fricking awesome?

    On a similar note, New Yorkers are leaving their state in alarming numbers, all brought about by high taxes. duh.
    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/tax_refugees_staging_escape_from_qb4pItQ71UXIc0i6cd3UpK

    If I scale this up to a national level, I wonder what will happen when Nancy Pie-hole-sy’s Health Care bill – the one which requires dramatic tax increases – comes to be law.

    The majority of the Dems who are leading this nation to ruin are from California and apparently, they’ve been doing drugs too long.

    There’s a story I read about once about a great calamity which causes California to fall into the ocean. Hmmmm… I wonder where that is on the web…. I’m going to go get a sandwich and read. It’ll make me feel better.

  146. Woah this particular web site is extremely good i like reading through your content regularly. Maintain the good work! You comprehend, many persons feel the need all-around for this information, you could help them tremendously.

  147. Muffy check out the comment from Chemical Tank. I approved it simply to show you the kind of comments that often go into moderation instead of SPAM.

    If I didn’t use moderation on new email addresses this is the kind of crap you’d see in the threads weekly if not daily.

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