Is An Effigy No Longer Good Enough?

It was only a matter of time until the anti-government sentiment now so prevalent in this country resulted in bloodshed. An ominous wind blows from Kentucky and while the jury is still out on what exactly happened, lots of people are thinking, is this what we have come to?

Bill Sparkman, a US Census worker was found hanging near a graveyard in Clay County, Kentucky. This could easily be dismissed for a suicide were it not for the fact that the word “FED” was scrawled across the man’s chest. In the backdrop we have the general government discontent stirred by Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck. Perhaps more damning, the explicit census-paranoia sparked by Minnesota Representative Michele Bachmann.

Much of the media is approaching this story with caution. Clearly, the investigation is just beginning and this could be either a very bizarre suicide or a “prank” homicide completely unrelated to any political agenda. If either case proves to be true, we should still stop and contemplate this moment. Regardless of what really happened, what are many of  us thinking right now and why?

I have said this before but I will say it again. The time has come for the political rhetoric to be tamped down. While conservatives are quick to point to Nancy Pelosi as a pot stirrer, the truth is that the activities Pelosi labeled “unamerican” were the rude, uncivil activities demonstrated by a minority of protesters. On the other hand, we have Glenn Beck surmising that Barack Obama has a deep seated hatred for white people. We have Rush Limbaugh blaming black on white school violence on “Obama’s America”. Our public discourse has gone off the rails in a way that truly eclipses the negative press of the Bush administration. With Bush there were very specific gripes, mostly centered around the war in Iraq. No one was saying “I want my country back.” There was not an overriding sense that government could do no right.

That has changed. Government now is the suspect. Trust is at an all time low. The 24 hour news cycle enables the loudest craziest voice to be heard over more reasonable ones.

I don’t know that Mr. Sparkman was killed by an anti-government nutjob. I do know that if the climate in this country were different, we wouldn’t all be wondering about the likelihood that Mr. Sparkman was indeed a human effigy for the US government.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

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537 thoughts on “Is An Effigy No Longer Good Enough?

  1. not to dismiss your overall point cause I would usually jump all over this issue and mostly agree with you but this cause according to the KY police isn’t ruled out as a suicide and the police officer didn’t comment on the “fed” thing and said the AP story was flawed.
    We all know the republicans here will jump all over you for assuming this was caused by the vitriol of those on the right like Beck and Limbaugh. But there is no doubt that their words are having a horrible influence on innocent people.

  2. and to address your twitter question, “Have Bachmann’s chickens come home to roost?”

    no because Bachmann like most conservatives are in denial. I highly doubt anyone or the right would even try to condemn her stupid actions.

  3. Rutherford – would you please me kind enough to leave us a note on the previous thread when you do this so we know to move over? Sensico had to tell me about this one…..

    😉

    — hp

  4. No one was saying “I want my country back.”” — R

    Ahhh, Michael Moore wrote a book saying just this- Dude, where’s my country.

    If you really think that the last 9 months somehow overcomes the vitriol and rhetoric of the previous 8 years, then you have no depth perception. You are physically, and apparently mentally, unable to compare historical events.

    Really…

  5. BTW Schultz was right, just got the party wrong. Dems make profits off dead people. Glad you joined the club Dodger.

    BTW Why did Thuggy grant the visas to the depots and islamists? Come up with an answer?

  6. Obama Administration Urges Dems to Oppose Congressional Oversight of Czars….

    Fox has learned, the White House has urged Senate Democrats not to support an amendment that would impose congressional oversight on “czars.”

    I recently posted a blog about Sen. GOP moderate Susan Collins’ effort, via amendment to the Interior spending bill, to reign in the Obama Administration’s use of these positions. There are more than 18 czars, and they are not Senate-confirmed.

    Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-CA, who is managing the spending bill on the Senate floor, told Collins earlier this week that she was prepared to accept the amendment, but that one Democrat had an objection. Both senators confirmed this to me directly.

    Collins told me she knew who objected and that she thought it was “just a misunderstanding,” that it could all be worked out.

    What a difference a couple of days makes.

    Now, Feinstein says the White House has indicated to her that she should back away from this effort.

    “It’s a huge separation of powers issue. I had no idea,” Feinstein said. I asked if this was the message from the White House, and she said, “Exactly.” She would not say who she had spoken to in the Administration.

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/09/obama-administration-urges-dems-to-oppose-congressional-oversight-of-czars.html

    Why is Thuggy such a fascist Dodger?

  7. What is this country coming to?

    It’s getting so that government officials can’t go around knocking on strange doors in drug-infested neighborhoods, anymore.

    And I notice that your own rhetoric includes references to Beck and Rush, but not a peep of the MSNBC clown who says the “GOP wants you dead.”

  8. 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

    Well well, well. The race card didn’t work for Rutherford, so now he’s resorted back to blaming talk radio and FOX News for all the racial ills in the world. Damn Rutherford, you are on occasion possibly the most flaccid blog owner I’ve ever read. This is worse than KKKos stuff. Sheer propaganda. It’s so blatantly slanted, I can’t even get miffed over your baseless, idiotic charges written to raise the ire of the right. I mean, this is the most pitiful stuff you’ve ever published that I’ve read.

    I mean Glenn Beck and the Black Panthers. Get it? Rush Limbaugh and Louie Farrakhan. Get it? Al Sharpton inciting riots in Jewish neighborhoods with innocent Jews being killed vs. Ann Coulter. Get it?

    Where was the altruistic outrage Mr. Lawson the last 30 years when you pussies were running your mouths all the time? Did you not think that at some time, most of America was going to get tired of your bull shit? Have you not witnessed at least once in your life the big quiet guy who is picked on and smiles, then finally one day someone pushes his buttons one too many times and he lashes out and breaks somebody’s jaw?

    Here’s the real scoop Rutherford. You and the left, like the proverbial punks that you are, pushed and pushed and pushed and then it got to be habit. And for a long time, it was effective. But you weren’t smart enough to recognize that even the nicest people get fed up with being bullied. And now your bluff has been called. You and Nancy Pelosi and Barney Frank and Harry Reid – you’re all cowards.

    Nancy Pelosi wasn’t worried about what happened 30 years a couple of weeks ago Rutherford when she almost broke down in tears. She’s down right scared because her nasty ass is now on the line. Anybody with any sense on the left ought to be scared. Game on Rutherford…you wanted a fight, you got one.

    Don’t pussy out now on me… This is going to get fun!!! 😉

  9. Tex,

    Drones here didnt seem to mind Schultz’s rant. Densico is more worried about Beck boiling a fake frog. Im just amazed they can tie their shoes without the government’s help.

  10. “Have Bachmann’s chickens come home to roost?”

    You crack me up with your unhealthy obsessions with conservative women.

    BTW You have an answer to the granting of visas to despots and islamists?

  11. Elric,

    Have you noticed that ever since THE BOMBA’s honeymoon was ruined by reality of having to actually perform, Rutherford is starting to devolve into sounding more like Densico everyday? Is it possible they’re related? If “R” jumps on the global warming/cooling/changing/revolving/polluting/melting/baking/burning/freezing/flooding/raining/snowing/windblowing/hurricane/salmon/minnow/snowy_owl/turtle bandwagon, the transformation will be complete. 😉

    We need Wally Curator’s objective commentary. I don’t think he found any relevant material at PuffHo yet to “paste” an opinion from MarKKKos. Perhaps he can write a SQL Script to determine a solution?

  12. Tex,

    I think he is already there to be honest. And I do agree that since Dodger’s dream of a marxist utopia isnt going as planned, he has become a bit unhinged.

    Ohh and we could use some rants from Jerkator, its fairly quiet around here without him.

  13. How about a post on Bibi’s speech?

    Haven’t read it yet (didn’t see it on the telly either) but I’ll consider it. You might not like it …. I am not a knee jerk “Israel can do no wrong” type. The problem is that when anyone is the least bit critical of Israel they get labeled an anti-Semite. It’s a tough line to walk.

  14. The misunderstanders of islam.

    I know you are focused on important things like what Michelle Bachman has said but misunderstanders have been busted in the past few days for plots in NY, Dallas and Illinois. The misunderstander in Dallas was an illegal.

  15. “The problem is that when anyone is the least bit critical of Israel they get labeled an anti-Semite.”

    Not really but I have found out that in more cases than not, they do tend to be. Not saying that you are.

  16. Red Pill, maybe I need to do more research but are you implying that the census taker was hanged in a drug infested neighborhood? I thought he was found in a park near a cemetery.

    Or, have you had a drink of the Bachmann koolaid and now think the census is some sort of violation of your rights? (That was rhetorical, I know you well enough to know better.)

  17. so now he’s resorted back to blaming talk radio and FOX News for all the racial ills in the world.

    Now that’s odd Tex. I read the post several times before I published it and I just read it again in case my old brain was faltering. I don’t see any reference to race at all in this post. The piece is about anti-government sentiment and its possible relation to what might be a politically motivated homicide.

    While Sensico is right to emphasize that the jury is out on what actually happened, the point is that when we look at the possibility, we can express no surprise because this is the direction we have been headed in for the past nine months. When the likes of Lush Rimjob and Beck and Bachmann get to yell fire in a crowded theater, the consequences should not surprise us.

  18. Oh Elric … the only reason I clicked on your Hotair article is I have a major crush on Norah O’Donnell. In fact, if you want me to read all your WZ posts, just make sure somewhere in there is a pic or video of Norah. 🙂

    By the way, I have my daughter say her prayers to Barack Hussein Obama every night before she goes to bed. Doesn’t every good lib? 😉

  19. Have you noticed that ever since THE BOMBA’s honeymoon was ruined by reality of having to actually perform …

    Ah Tex, you slay me!

    The only reason I haven’t piped in on the global warming thing is that arguing science with folks who dislike science is kind of futile. The very simple notion that man can negatively impact the planet seems to me so obvious as to be not worth any debate. Perhaps there is a fear among climate-change-deniers that when we discuss man’s effect on the planet, we elevate him to the level of a God? What God created only He can destroy. Is that the real reason the global-warming-is-a-scam contingent has their head in the sand?

  20. “The only reason I haven’t piped in on the global warming thing is that arguing science with folks who dislike science is kind of futile.”

    Is this what you have left is generalizations and making false claims? I know its difficult to defend all of Thuggy’s fascism but come on, give it a try.

  21. “R”,

    By the way, I have my daughter say her prayers to Barack Hussein Obama every night before she goes to bed.

    Your daughter says her prayers to Barack Hussein Obama? That was a misstatement, I hope. Maybe she says her prayers “FOR” Barack Hussein Obama? Surely you misspoke…

  22. “Yup, while I am for tightening the borrder, you’re for letting them in and having them die outside our emergency rooms.”

    Wow, no concern for all these jihadist plots at all? And you know, they are here illegally, if they want health care, they can go to all those countries that have wonderful socialized medicine. Why come here if our medical care sucks so bad?

  23. By the way, I have my daughter say her prayers to Barack Hussein Obama every night before she goes to bed. Doesn’t every good lib?

    lmao, I hope that was sarcasm lol

  24. Red Pill, maybe I need to do more research but are you implying that the census taker was hanged in a drug infested neighborhood? I thought he was found in a park near a cemetery.

    Actually, the state is a major producer of marijuana, the feds have been combatting it for years there, and since the residents of the state have a long history of battling the feds over illicit substances, going back to the earliest days of moonshiners and “revenooers”, I can think of a whole lot of reasons why a federal employee might just wake up dead if they go poking around in the wrong area that have nothing at all to do with “the general government discontent stirred by Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck. ” [Do you get double punches on your coffee card at the Dummie Underground for that kind of breathless indictment, btw?] So no, I don’t really wonder if Mr. Sparkman was an effigy for the U.S. Government.

    While conservatives are quick to point to Nancy Pelosi as a pot stirrer, the truth is that the activities Pelosi labeled “unamerican” were the rude, uncivil activities demonstrated by a minority of protesters.

    Which does nothing to make their actions invalid expressions of their First Amendment rights. There is nothing “UnAmerican” about such activity, and you really should be ashamed of saying such a thing, as should Nan, who a few short years ago was all for protest. Funny the difference a change in the occupant of the Oval Office makes, isn’t it? And as for rude , and uncivil, the biter? Yeah, he was an SEIU member…not one of “the minority of protestors.”

    I have said this before but I will say it again. The time has come for the political rhetoric to be tamped down.

    Now you’re talking crazy talk. Any serious movement to limit free speech would be fatal to the Republic, and would almost certainly spark a blood letting that would make the French revolution pale in comparison. You really, really don’t want to go there.

  25. HEY “R”,

    I know that you and Wally Curator are how shall we say it like HippieProf “Entropy Experts”, but I got a question.

    What kind of fossil fuel do you think Rome was burning to evlevate CO2 since it was warmer then than now? And assuming you’re right, what set of cards is Barack Hussein THE BOMBA going to play to tell China, India and Russia what they shall do to abide by libbie rules?

    Do you realize what a joke your party, your ideas, and your projections are becoming. Remember when you told us that the world hated us because of George W. Bush. Well, now I’m telling you that the world no longer hates us. Congratulations.

    Now they simply laugh at us.

  26. I’ve gotten really bad about cutting corners, especially the interrogative questions with no question mark. My Mom would scold me for being so careless.

  27. Tex,

    You are debating a kitchen table. Logic has nothing to do with “global warming”. China, Russia and India are more than happy for us to commit economic suicide.

  28. As far as I understand meth labs are now associated with rural and suburban areas so that the criminals can keep a lower profile. Rural areas have it just as bad, they get lower funding, some don’t have the best education and lack of diversity usually doesn’t prepare them for anything else other then rural life, lack of jobs there too. It’s a perfect climate for criminals.

  29. You dont think the video was creepy? Or is that too difficult a question to answer?

    Honestly? I thought the video was hilarious. Creepy isn’t the word I’d use. I thought it was very funny … especially the rhythmic way they chanted “Barack Hussein Obama”. Sorry, didn’t creep me out … just made me laugh out loud.

  30. Did you know that you now “dislike” science if you disagree with the Chicken Little Crowd assessment of global warming/change/cooling/InconvenientTruth?

    Unbelievable the inane generalizations made here…
    ————————————————————-

    Now “R”, to summarize your charade of a post.

    Yes, this story is about excuse making looking for someone to blame for Barack’s misfortune of being asked to perform, instead of quoting the insipid moral platitudes by Obama as the penguins from your feckless crowd clap.

    Or more specifically, for our first African-American/Person_of_Color/Whitey_hating/JIve_talking/Muslim loving President and how he is simply misunderstood :smile:, as is every story here. That is, unless it is about your hard on for good looking, brickhouse, white, conservative women who wouldn’t throw you a bone if you were starving.

    Why are you now concerned about America’s disdain for government. Wasn’t a year ago you were leading the parade, waving the flag of evil American Imperialism and our continual failure.

    Aren’t we just continuing on with your message? Be proud. You taught us well. I just want to know when THE BOMBA plans on doing something useful? He’s a good fit over at the U.N, though. Does he like hookers and booze? We already know he’s not accountable for anything.

  31. Your daughter says her prayers to Barack Hussein Obama?

    Just for the record since you conservatives sometimes leave your sense of humor in the garage somewhere …

    that was a joke.

    Tex, if I were a praying man, I would indeed pray for him because very honesty I’ve been worried about his safety from the moment he decided to run for President. Quite frankly, whether it’s four or eight years, I’ll be relieved when he returns to civilian life.

  32. “Tex, if I were a praying man, I would indeed pray for him because very honesty I’ve been worried about his safety from the moment he decided to run for President.”

    Did you worry about Bush’s life with all the hate?

  33. You really, really don’t want to go there.

    BiW I value the first amendment as much as the next guy. I believe in freedom of expression (some of the crap I allow in the comments section of this blog should give proof of that).

    However, sometimes actions follow words. Words have power. We have a responsibility to choose our words with care. Don Imus was fired for using the term “nappy headed hoes” in reference to black female college b-ball players. Quite frankly, I think that dumbass remark, albeit offensive, did much less lasting damage than Glenn Beck saying Obama hates white people. Now Beck is paying a price. He’s still on the air because the leadership at Fox is brain-dead but his sponsors are fleeing by the dozens. I’m now waiting for Limbaugh’s sponsors to get a clue.

    Incitement to violence is not protected by the first amendment. The dude carrying the sign saying “We came unarmed (this time)” should have been arrested on the spot. Enough is enough.

    P.S. I don’t like coffee. I’m a tea drinker. (Oh I do like donuts. Can they double punch my donut card?)

  34. I know that you and Wally Curator are how shall we say it like HippieProf “Entropy Experts”, but I got a question.

    Tex, you’ve avoided the simple question. Is it not possible for man to effect the earth’s atmosphere in damaging ways? Do you dismiss that possibility? As a med student (no sarcasm so don’t go all loony on me), you are a scientist. Are you really going to summarily dismiss the possibility that our behavior can accelerate natural phenomena in our environment, which is all the global warming issue comes down to really.

  35. I’ve gotten really bad about cutting corners, especially the interrogative questions with no question mark.

    LOL I think I just committed that sin in my last comment to you.

  36. What price did Jackson pay for saying Bush let black people die after Katrina?

    I assume you’re referring to Jesse Jackson? Mmmm did he have radio or TV talk show at the time?

  37. “You see the way he dodged that shoe? The man’s an athlete. He didn’t need my prayers.”

    I love it when you answer like that because it means I exposed your hypocrisy.

  38. Incitement to violence is not protected by the first amendment. The dude carrying the sign saying “We came unarmed (this time)” should have been arrested on the spot. Enough is enough.

    Seriously? You call a reminder to the government that the people of the nation are the final check on the power it has incitement? That is one seriously big mote in your eye, brother. Fortunately for the Constitution and the free people who subscribe to it, there is no crime of “incitement” for political speech in this country, allow some of the Sedition laws came close.

  39. When the people fear the government you have tyranny

    When the government fears the people you have democracy

    Oh that’s real productive!

    Here’s the fear you’re looking for … fear of not being reelected. That is what runs our democracy, not fear of getting killed by an angry mob.

  40. When the people fear the government you have tyranny

    When the government fears the people you have democracy

    Oh that’s real productive!

    Here’s the fear you’re looking for … fear of not being reelected. That is what runs our democracy, not fear of getting killed by an angry mob.

    You know, when I was young, dumb, and liberal (but I repeat myself), I had to read a book called ‘The Great Triumvirate’ for honors credits in my American History course in college. It was about Henry Clay, Daniel Webster, and John C. Calhoun. When reading it, I came to the conclusion that Calhoun was nucking futs. The older I get, the more I understand some of the conculsions that he came to, and how painful they must have been for him.

  41. Rutherford: “Red Pill, maybe I need to do more research but are you implying that the census taker was hanged in a drug infested neighborhood? I thought he was found in a park near a cemetery.”

    Do you think drug-infested neighborhoods don’t have parks near cemetaries?

    Manchester Police Chief Jeff Culver, whose agency is not part of the investigation because the death was outside city limits, said the area where Sparkman was found has a history of problems with prescription drug and methamphetamine trading.

    “That part of the county, it has its ups and downs. We’ll get a lot of complaints of drug activity. They’ll whittle away, then flourish back up,” Culver said. He said officers last month rounded up 40 drug suspects, mostly dealers, and made several more arrests in subsequent days.

    But don’t feel bad. The original AP writers didn’t do any better in their research, either. Word is now that their story has “flaws and errors” and was based soley on anonymous sources. Police aren’t ruling out suicide, as his feet were touching the ground, and won’t even comment on if anything was actually carved in his chest.

    Sensico: “and, yeah I was getting that violation of your rights vibe for pill’s comments.”

    I don’t give off vibes. Maybe it’s coming from your nightstand drawer?

    Rutherford: “Here’s the fear you’re looking for … fear of not being reelected. That is what runs our democracy, not fear of getting killed by an angry mob.”

    Yeah. Obama is the first POTUS to worry about getting killed by mobs. That is why he recently formed the Secret Service, which has no previous history of protecting the president while he is around big crowds.

  42. “It’s getting so that government officials can’t go around knocking on strange doors in drug-infested neighborhoods, anymore.”-red pill

    lol…that sums it up, too.

  43. “I don’t give off vibes. Maybe it’s coming from your nightstand drawer?”

    thats pretty lame, I’d recommend not answering the question next time b4 writing another comeback like that. Very juvenile, but Im not surprised.

  44. “thats pretty lame, I’d recommend not answering the question next time b4 writing another comeback like that. Very juvenile, but Im not surprised.”

    You should take your own advice

  45. Rutherford,

    Tex, you’ve avoided the simple question. Is it not possible for man to effect the earth’s atmosphere in damaging ways?

    Not really. Of course, all of us can damage the earth, just as we can damage ourselves. I’m simply pointing out the stupidity and sheer arrogance of the left, as the verdict out whether the warming of the earth is even happening. And if it is indeed happening, if man even capable of warming the earth or this simply a cyclical change and natural phenomenon.

    You act as if the earth is static. If you haven’t noticed, like us the earth is a living planet and has this incredible ability to return things to the norm without man’s assistance. Want an example?

    In 1980, when Mt. Saint Helen’s exploded, there was an incredible amount of destruction – so much so that these same scientists whom you are now believing told us that it would be thousands of years due to the acidity of the soil before life would return.

    Upon their arrival when things cooled a few months later that plants were growing through the devastation. Less than 30 years after the fact, much has already returned to normal, though the landscape very different. The earth didn’t need our help to return to its own version of homeostasis.

    Here’s another paradox Rutherford – just learned this. Did you know that a C-Section for a baby can actually prove to be more dangerous to health of a struggling baby, especially a preemie, than a difficult vaginal birth? And this has nothing to do with the danger of the surgery.

    Seems for our lungs to work properly upon birth, our cortisol levels (stress hormones) must rise for the surfactant (the lipid that keeps our lungs from collapsing during conduction) to secrete in appropriate amounts. The stress of the delivery is actually helpful to the newborn.

    Global warming or change or cooling, whatever you want to call it is bad science and a pseudo religion. It’s dishonest and arrogant to think we our in control of our planet Rutherford. Should we respect our earth? Of course we should – she’s all we got and she deserves that. I myself try to be diligent about showing respect. But the question I would really like to ask libs is should we not exploit the resources God gave us, assuming our greed doesn’t overrun our need?

  46. (CNSNews.com) – Even though the Border Patrol now reports that almost 1,300 miles of the U.S.-Mexico border is not under effective control, and the Department of Justice says that vast stretches of the border are “easily breached,” and the Government Accountability Office has revealed that three persons “linked to terrorism” and 530 aliens from “special interest countries” were intercepted at Border Patrol checkpoints last year, the administration is nonetheless now planning to decrease the number of Border Patrol agents deployed on the U.S.-Mexico border.

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/09/administration-cutting-384-usmexico-boarder-agents-.html

    Another question for Dodger to dodge? Why is doing these things that are dangerous to our country?

  47. “Here’s the fear you’re looking for … fear of not being reelected. That is what runs our democracy, not fear of getting killed by an angry mob.”

    Thats why our forefathers gave us the second amendment. Protection from the government if it ever goes too far.

  48. Democrats Are Jarred by Drop In Fundraising
    Complacency, Absence of Big Donors Cited

    By Paul Kane
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Friday, September 25, 2009

    Democratic political committees have seen a decline in their fundraising fortunes this year, a result of complacency among their rank-and-file donors and a de facto boycott by many of their wealthiest givers, who have been put off by the party’s harsh rhetoric about big business.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/24/AR2009092404906.html?wprss=rss_politics

    Gee what a shock

  49. Rutherford says….

    Regardless of what really happened, what are many of us thinking right now and why?

    emphasis Alfie
    Dude the problem is you’re not thinking at all. Your allowing fantasies to flow out of the inner sanctums of your deepest psyche. You are all trying to be like Nostradamus pursuing some bullshit self fulfilling prophecy so as to continue some anti Bush progressive electoral push. Grow the fuck up and get a dose of reality. If you are going to spend the next two election cycles looking for boogie men wherever you’re going to lose more than the elections.

  50. What a damn shame,

    Retired trooper warned census worker to ‘be careful’

    The census worker found hanged with “fed” scrawled on his chest was apparently warned beforehand by a retired state trooper that “he might meet up with some folks who aren’t too fond of people from the government showing up on their doorsteps,” according to Ted Werbin, news director for WHAS radio in Louisville, Kentucky.
    http://rawstory.com/blog/2009/09/retired-trooper-warned-census-worker-to-be-careful/

    And no I’m having a great day, why ask?

  51. Democratic political committees have seen a decline in their fundraising fortunes this year, a result of complacency among their rank-and-file donors and a de facto boycott by many of their wealthiest givers, who have been put off by the party’s harsh rhetoric about big business.

    No problem. Someone from the administration can call SEIU Andy, who can call out a few of his special fundraising ‘consultants’ to pay these reluctant donors a visit, and BAM! the money will flow like water.

  52. Alfie, my bogeyman is a lot scarier than the conservative’s bogeyman. The conservative’s bogeyman is Obama, whom they’ve turned into some stealth Kenyan Marxist intent on destroying this country from the inside … the 21st century Manchurian Candidate.

    My bogeyman is harder to pin down. A “mood” in the country that makes actions that would once have been condemned suddenly half way acceptable. The knee-jerk response of conservatives is defensiveness. Rather than any of you guys saying, “man I sure hope you’re wrong about Sparkman. If you’re right, maybe we do need to rethink some of the approach we’ve been taking.” instead the answer is an immediate dismissal. The hateful signs at the tea parties are ok. The guns at rallies are ok. The nutjob rhetoric from Beck, Limbaugh, etc. is ok. Hanging a guy from a tree is ok … he was probably just mistaken for a narc. No biggie.

    My job is real easy. I need to keep my conscience clean. So when the violence escalates, folks can see here in black and white the warnings. I won’t sit back and let the crap escalate without making an appeal for sanity.

  53. And if it is indeed happening, if man even capable of warming the earth or this simply a cyclical change and natural phenomenon.

    I think it’s time to test just how much you really do trust science Tex. Do you believe the sun is a star? Do you believe that like all stars it will eventually burn out? Do you know what this spells for the Earth and mankind? I get the uneasy feeling that you believe the Earth is a self correcting system that will persevere no matter what is thrown at it. Since you believe in the creation, I know you don’t feel the Earth has always existed but I get the sense you believe it will always be here.

    I’m not mocking you … I want to truly know to what extent you believe science explains where we are and where we are going?

  54. Maybe it’s coming from your nightstand drawer?

    Sometimes I am so green. I had to read that comment about ten times before I got the joke. Interesting Red Pill. I think you’re the first person on the blog to think of Sensico “in that way”. Anything you want to share? 😉

    Now to the point … what is your take on the census? Does it scare you like it does Ms. Bachmann?

  55. When reading it, I came to the conclusion that Calhoun was nucking futs. The older I get, the more I understand some of the conculsions that he came to, and how painful they must have been for him.

    For the benefit of me and other readers who have not read the book, could you elaborate a bit?

  56. The hateful signs at the tea parties are ok.

    “Hateful”, much like “Racist” is increasingly proving to be subjective, rather than objective, and of late, is marked by an oddly correlative relationship with the accused’s dissent with current Congressional and Administrative aims.

    The guns at rallies are ok.

    Yes, we know. The lawful exercise of a citizen’s right to bear arms as accorded under the Second Amendment is a cause for hyperventilation and alarm for you, and if you had your way, only the police (and criminals) would have guns, because in your world, the only reason to own a gun is to harm someone with it. Deterrance of violence and taking personal responsibilty for one’s safety never enters into the equation when we use Rutherford math, and as we all know, if the peasants aren’t allowed to arm themselves, then violent crime goes down…except it doesn’t, and it only makes law abiding citizens less safe.

    The nutjob rhetoric from Beck, Limbaugh, etc. is ok.

    I guess that this guy is completely sane then?

    “My ratings are the highest as long as you don’t count the guys whose ratings are the highest.”

    Hanging a guy from a tree is ok … he was probably just mistaken for a narc. No biggie.

    No, but I’m not going to make a wild-assed guess that “anit-government nutjob rhetoric” was the reason someone working for the federal government was found dead in a part of the country where the residents, who have long engaged in the production and trade of contrband, have had a very antagonistic relationship with the authorities, especially the feds, almost since the founding of our nation.

  57. “Oh goodness, now the SEIU is like the Mafia?”

    Yes

    “Alfie, my bogeyman is a lot scarier than the conservative’s bogeyman. The conservative’s bogeyman is Obama, whom they’ve turned into some stealth Kenyan Marxist intent on destroying this country from the inside … the 21st century Manchurian Candidate.”

    But yet, when stuff is posted on things he is doing to destroy this country, you never counter it, you ignore it. Since you cant defend his destructive policies, we take your silence that you actually do agree otherwise you you put up an argument.

  58. Iran’s President Mahmoud Ahmedinejad has warned his U.S. counterpart not to press Tehran on new revelations about a uranium enrichment plant. “If I were [President] Obama’s adviser, I would definitely advise him to refrain making this statement because it is definitely a mistake,” Ahmedinejad told TIME in New York on Friday. “It would definitively be a mistake.”…

    But he seemed nonplussed by questions about the newly-revealed plant, which TIME informed him that Obama was revealing in Pittsburgh; Ahmadinejad’s response meandered from the defensive to the aggressive. “This does not mean we must inform Mr. Obama’s administration of every facility that we have,” he said. He warned that if Obama brings up the uranium facility, it “simply adds to the list of issues to which the United States owes the Iranian nation an apology over. Rest assured that this will be the case. We do everything transparently.” He added, “I’m not the person who should be giving this advice to Mr. Obama because principally, Mr. Obama’s mistakes work in our favor. But still, we do not want to see a president of a country like the United States of America to make blunders of the sort, to make mistakes of the sort.”

    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/09/25/iran-admits-to-secret-uranium-enrichment-facility/

    How’s that Thuggy diplomacy working out for you Dodger?

  59. Rutherford I’m really tired so all I’ll say is this.
    You are looking at isolated incidents through a prism of shitty journalism and paranoia and seeing widespread danger and fright. You and others demand people to see the same thing,declare a state of emergency and stock up on clean pressed panties. Can’t help you mate.

  60. Rutherford, your whole post makes a fallacious argument. You state quite clearly that we don’t know what happened to Mr. Sparkman, and then promptly blame convservattives for his death. Your caveats aren’t sufficient. If they had any meaning, you would have had no post.

    You are attempting to use his death as a club to beat your political opponents over the head, even though there is no linkage shown. Indeed, several people have shown that there are very plausible reasons why rhetoric from the right wing did NOT have anything to do with his death.

    That doesn’t matter to you. It simply MUST be the fault of Beck, Rush and all those wingers. If not this time, maybe next.

    Speaking of political violence, how ’bout that G20 crowd?

  61. look at what some nutcase sent me, liberal blog, Fox News and theres even a group called “affirmative action for whites” that it was sent to. This is what we have to deal with from conservatives,

    “IF OBAMA LIED, LET HIM AND THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY PAY FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS FOR THEIR HEALTHCARE, AFTER ALL THE DEMOCRATS GET THE LATINO VOTE AND THE LEGAL WORKING AMERICANS GET SCREWED BY OBAMA AND THE DEMOCRATS!

    THEN FILE IMPEACHMENT PAPERS SINCE OBAMA IS NOT PROTECTION THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES!”

    This is not out of the ordinary on the conservative side. And to assume Latinos are illegal immigrants is why conservatives are pushing minorities away.

  62. Obama administration blows School for Soldiers program, too
    posted at 1:36 pm on September 25, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

    The Obama administration has yet to fully unsnarl the reimbursements from the Cash for Clunkers program, and have claimed that the overwhelming demand caught them by surprise. In contrast, the latest GI Bill for veteran education, the Post-9/11 Veterans Educational Assistance Act of 2008, has been in effect for more than a year, with fairly predictable demand curves. So why did the administration botch tuition payments for tens of thousands of veterans at the beginning of this semester?

    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/09/25/obama-administration-blows-school-for-soldiers-program-too/

    You really wants these morons controlling your health care? Really?

  63. Jeebers, Rutherford, did you google this at all before you wrote such a fatuous post? According to local law enforcement, that area of Clay County is known to be dangerous due to marijuana fields and meth labs.

    I do know that if the climate in this country were different, we wouldn’t all be wondering about the likelihood that Mr. Sparkman was indeed a human effigy for the US government.

    We’re not all wondering, it’s just fools like you who are leaping to such a silly conclusion with no evidence to support it.

  64. If not this time, maybe next. – Xbradtc

    EXACTLY You captured my point perfectly.

    By the way, I glanced at your web site and noticed an assortment of political articles and “hot girls” (Fran Drescher???) Are you reaching for that Playboy goal of being a skin mag that folks only buy for the articles? 😉

  65. “Speaking of political violence, how ’bout that G20 crowd.”

    Shhhh Dodger only freaks out that conservatives might get violent. He wont condemn leftists actually getting violent. Its part of the hypocritical lefty hand book.

  66. Too funny. Where is the condemnation of the violence by the leftists at the G-20 summit?

    All this proves is that the Tea Partiers are too dumbass to gather at a conference devoted to world affairs. “Duh, you mean there are countries outside the US of A?” They’d rather get together to bash their own country.

    Oh and by the way … one of their spokespeople, that private citizen, Sarah Palin went over to China and bashed our government. Don’t see any of our patriotic conservatives here condemning that. Wonder why?

  67. Michael, I was admittedly in the dark about the meth lab angle. I saw the same cautionary tale that much of the media saw and I maintain my position. It really doesn’t matter at this point why he was killed. What matters is that we live in a country where lots of intelligent people jumped to the same conclusion that this is anti-gov’t sentiment gone mad. That conclusion-jumping is justified by the times we are living in. That’s the point.

  68. “All this proves is that the Tea Partiers are too dumbass to gather at a conference devoted to world affairs.”

    No, just proves that you rather get hot and bothered about conservatives protesting peacefully than condemn your side for protesting violently.

    “Don’t see any of our patriotic conservatives here condemning that. Wonder why?’

    Well once we saw Thuggy do it time and time, we figured it was ok. Now unless you are going to condemn Thuggy for doing it numerous times, just shut up and color.

  69. “What matters is that we live in a country where lots of intelligent people jumped to the same conclusion that this is anti-gov’t sentiment gone mad.”

    No, intelligent people wait for the facts to come in. Guess thats why you didnt.

  70. Well once we saw Thuggy do it time and time, we figured it was ok.

    Nice dodge to obscure your typical hypocrisy.

    By the way, since when were the G20 protesters my crowd? I’m not an anarchist.

  71. CRS: Zelaya arrest lawful
    posted at 2:55 pm on September 25, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
    Share on Facebook | printer-friendly

    The official position of the Obama administration casts the removal of Manuel Zelaya from office in Honduras as an illegal coup d’etat, and almost every other nation in the region has lined up with the US — or more accurately, we have lined up with them. The Hugo Chavez protege has used this international support to demand a return to his office, and the US has ratcheted up the pressure by canceling visa services and suspending aid to the poor nation, which had been until now a fairly reliable friend in Latin America. Even with Zelaya spewing paranoid rantings about Israeli mercenaries and mind rays, the Obama administration has not budged from its position.

    But was Zelaya’s removal actually illegal? The Congressional Research Service analyzed it, and concluded that Honduras’ parliament and Supreme Court, while lacking an impeachment mechanism in the country’s constitution, had the authority to issue an arrest warrant for Zelaya and remove him from office (via Fausta Wertz):

    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/09/25/crs-zelaya-arrest-lawful/

    Now again, why did Thuggy grant visas to despots and islamists?

  72. EXACTLY You captured my point perfectly.

    So you are waiting with bated breath for someone to die in political violence in order to prove your point? Ghoul much?

    It really doesn’t matter at this point why he was killed.

    Yeah, because you are going to wave the bloody shirt anyway. You just admitted this entire post is a fraud, but in the same breath claim it justifies your point of view.

    What matters is that we live in a country where lots of intelligent people jumped to the same conclusion that this is anti-gov’t sentiment gone mad.

    If lots of people jumped to a conclusion wholly unsupported by the evidence, how can you claim they are intelligent?

  73. “Nice dodge to obscure your typical hypocrisy.”

    Projecting once again? Now why is it ok for Thuggy, the “president” to bash his country but not a private citizen? care to explain that one hypocrite? I doubt it. You wont even reply because you never can defend Thuggy’s actions.

    “By the way, since when were the G20 protesters my crowd? I’m not an anarchist.”

    No, you are a leftist and plenty of leftists there and anarchists tend to be leftists.

  74. Xbradtc,

    You are going have a lot of fun debating Dodger. You are better off debating a piece of furniture. You cornered him and his response now will be to dodge and clam up.

    The idiot jumped the gun because he was soooo anxious to paint conservatives as a racist blood thirsty mob. He got burned so he has to spin this somehow.

  75. Elric66,

    He’s already dodged by trying to mock my blog.

    Dude, it’s a moronblog. I’m not trying to win the Pulitzer.

    And you gotta dig pretty deep to find anything partisan in my blog. It’s there, but it’s not every post.

  76. “He’s already dodged by trying to mock my blog.”

    Thats his MO. Its right out of Saul Alinsky’s handbook. He cant debate the facts presented to him so he must attack the messenger and ridicule him. Thats if he even responds.

    I asked him a million times why Thuggy granted visas to islamists and despots and so far no reply.

  77. That’s a pretty depressing video, Elric.

    Good thing there’s no indoctrination going on. Nothing, oh, partisan like using a campaign slogan.

  78. I have to admit. I am genuinely bummed out in the direction this blog has gone in.

    I have to keep repeating that Rutherford, in many ways, is very green when it comes to politics.

    He is also exceedingly emotionally invested in Obama. I need to remind myself of that too.

    More so then any other president or, for that matter, any sports team or rock band.

    Thus, only recently immersed in the worst form of government (except for all the rest) he can’t believe his eyes and ears.

    People in this free country bitch a ton and do it well!

    I thought Rutherford would be Alamo entrenched when it came to Obama policy and was expecting a vehement defense of every move he makes.

    But we rarely get that, other then bumper stickers.

    I sincerely didn’t think his main theme would be an ongoing project dished out in weekly episodes exposing a dark narrative of dangerously treasonous political opponents. WTF!?

    This latest blog entry is embarrassing! Fricking laughable.

    I wonder if a distant relative of Rutherford was contracted out by Marc Antony to cut off Cicero’s hands and tongue and nail them to the wall of the Senate?

    Maybe there is some kind of genetic code making one predisposed for this type of thing.

    Is Rutherford physiologically the type who would cry like a bitch at Beatles’ concerts or at 1930-something Nuremberg speeches?

    Perhaps it’s in his genes to now write this silly fiction?

    Yet, this isn’t the Rutherford I knew a year ago.

    By the way, how is a semi self-employed house hen like Rutherford, holed up in the suburbs of Connecticut, even able to make sweeping generalizations on the mood of the country?

    I could easily start writing an anti-thesis: That the mood of the country is one in which millions of mindless Obama cohorts are days away from outright stifling free speech and other American liberties. After all, Rutherford and sensico do constantly hate on the first amendment.

    Hell, Tex and Elric probably even disagree with me on this one. But, as bad as this economy is, and as epic as the government spending has been, we are no where near the boiling point yet.

    Rutherford thinks the firing on Fort Sumter is at hand. I think maybe Tex does too.

    But honestly, even when our “peculiar institution” ripped this nation in half, look how long it took until outright Civil War took place?

    Sheesh. Go out for a beer. Talk to the people.

    No doubt, there are millions of pissed off, red blooded Americans out there. And every 30 years we get really super duper pissed off.

    This is the normal cycle of things. I fucking love it, baby!

  79. “It really doesn’t matter at this point why he was killed. What matters is that we live in a country where lots of intelligent people jumped to the same conclusion that this is anti-gov’t sentiment gone mad. That conclusion-jumping is justified by the times we are living in. That’s the point.”-Rutherford

    TRANSLATION: I AM LIVING PROOF THIS NATION IS FULL OF FUCKING WHACKED OUT NUT CASES BECAUSE I ACTED LIKE A FUCKING WHACKED OUT NUT CASE. Oh yeah, I’m intelligent too.

    ??????????????????????????????????

    I doesn’t matter why the dude was killed. Because if my friends and I claim the dude was killed by right wing fanatics that, in itself, is living proof of the right wing fanatic problem we have. Uh…becuase we’re smart and stuff.

    and…errr…being smart and stuff makes you not have to be right.
    _______________________________________________
    LOL.

    Nice try.

    You are right though. It doesn’t matter. Even if the dude was killed by a G Beck fan, it proves nothing. Dude, 300 million motherfuckers live in this country.

  80. The idiot jumped the gun because he was soooo anxious to paint conservatives as a racist blood thirsty mob.

    You’re as bad as Tex … who said anything about race in this article?

  81. If lots of people jumped to a conclusion wholly unsupported by the evidence,

    Where do you get the idea that this conclusion is wholly unsupported by the evidence? Could this be a suicide? Absolutely. Can you prove it yet? No. The man had FED scrawled on his chest. This means his killers were making a statement about the fed … drug enforcement … or census … or anything else related to government.

    The evidence at first blush supports a very troubling outcome. Until further investigation shows otherwise, you can’t refute it. (By the way, the only evidence that totally kills this story is a suicide. Everyone here arguing with me has acknowledged this population of folks in Kentucky don’t want feds snooping around for any reason … and that can’t be ameliorated by Beck, Limbaugh and Bachmann.)

  82. This shit has been going down in a place called the Garden Peninsula in the U.P. of Michigan for decades. They hang straw stuffed DNR dummies for fun..

    Sometimes they just go ahead and kill DNR too!

  83. only at comment #126 and this thread is hilarious.

    I think if you go around and talk to people most probably wouldn’t be really that angry at our government enough to go to rallies and hold socialist signs. Most people are reasonable, they’d just give the simple answer of, “too much spending by dems” and “the GOP bringing nothing to the table”. In the people are too busy trying to survive and live a happy life in this tough economy.

    I think the bitchiness is what makes America unique where idiots can be free enough to hold their racists signs which is why I think they should be especially happy America and they contradict themselves with those socialist and fascists posters. No was in a real socialist country or with a fascists president could they do half the idiot $hit they do.

    Theres a point where it goes too far. And though Beck and Limbaugh are free to say what they want, wheres the sense of responsibility.

  84. It was written in pen. Did you intentionally use the word scrawled to illicit the false imagery of a knife wound ?
    Let me tell you what happened…
    Someone or persons wanted to scare the shit out of this guy. The wrote FED on his chest and taunted and verbally abused him. They then set him up with a noose to mimic a hanging. The knot slips and people (the criminals) start to shit themselves and the guy dies of asphyxiation.
    Any less sick ? No but its not the right wing conspiracy of Obamas next either.
    The talking heads that you think are so bad R have a new colleague. YOU!

  85. You guys (well, most of you) are just gonna hate this one…. I argue that calling Obama and his advisers racist is downright ludicrous – in fact the label is close to semantically impossible.

    http://hippieprofessor.com/2009/09/25/ralphie-and-aldo-and-stephen-and-barak/

    I know very well I am going to be in for some abuse here – so hey – bring it.

    I would also love to see some civil conversation about the ideas I present – so please feel free to leave those comments as well.

    — hippieprof

    P.S. I know it is bad form to link to your own blog – but Elric does in 50 times a day – and we have been discussing this here.

  86. What matters is that we live in a country where lots of intelligent people hysterical lefties jumped to the same conclusion that this is anti-gov’t sentiment gone mad.

    Fixed that for you.

  87. I think the bitchiness is what makes America unique where idiots can be free enough to hold their racists signs which is why I think they should be especially happy America and they contradict themselves with those socialist and fascists posters. No was in a real socialist country or with a fascists president could they do half the idiot $hit they do.

    Sensico,and note I address you by name. I imagine you’re in a rush perhaps but could you help me make sense of that ?
    And curious are G20/IMF protest types as bad yet obviously fortunate they live somewhere that lets them talk and only arrests them when they start burning and breaking stuff.

    Also if any of you all get the NattGeo channel they are reairing the show highlighting the neo Nazis march in DC and the acts of the anti racism crowd. the latter did all the damage. The irony in some ways is I was there with my family and when I saw the Capitol Police mustering up I was like “We need to get the kids out of here” I was worried about having to explain the KKK and NeoNazis to them. It was bad enough the previous day I had to explain the nutters in front of 1600 Penn.

  88. It cracks me up when lefties take it as a given that they are intelligent, and because they are soooo darn smart, any absurdity they speak or write, unsupported by any facts, must be significant.

  89. Damnit, meant, “happy in America” and “No way in a real socialist country”.

    I actually haven’t paid attention to the protests at G20, though vandalism is always cause for arrest. We also live in a country with property rights. Once vandalism occurs, it’s always worse.
    The racist sign holders were pretty much doing a peaceful protest.

  90. When reading it, I came to the conclusion that Calhoun was nucking futs. The older I get, the more I understand some of the conculsions that he came to, and how painful they must have been for him.

    For the benefit of me and other readers who have not read the book, could you elaborate a bit?

    Calhoun was a United States Senator, and had served as Vice-President for John Quincy Adams and Adams’ successor, Andrew Jackson. (And if you know much about either election, that should strike you as odd.) The point being he was familiar with the Constitution and Federal and State law. When the northern states decided that they would not respect the property rights of the citizens of southern states who were travelling through their territory(i.e. their ownership of slaves) he became a champion of nullification, and as time progressed, it became increasingly clear to him that the nation would eventually sunder.

    When I hear leftiists continually talk about the abridgment of our Constitutional rights, such as curtaiing Second Amendment rights (for our own good, of course), I ponder how bizarre it is to live in a world where other Americans keep trying to tell us that rights are somehow no longer rights because they cannot perceive a need for them.

  91. Too funny. Where is the condemnation of the violence by the leftists at the G-20 summit?

    All this proves is that the Tea Partiers are too dumbass to gather at a conference devoted to world affairs. “Duh, you mean there are countries outside the US of A?” They’d rather get together to bash their own country.

    Oh and by the way … one of their spokespeople, that private citizen, Sarah Palin went over to China and bashed our government. Don’t see any of our patriotic conservatives here condemning that. Wonder why?

    R, it amazes me how you can have all the pieces, but you always manage to put them together wrong.

    …the Tea Partiers…They’d rather get together to bash their own country.

    No. They love their country, it is the government they are protesting. They are protesting what they see as unlawful usurpation of power, and other grossly irresponsible behavior by their elected officials, as part of a concerted effort to radically change the nature of this country.

    …Sarah Palin went over to China and bashed our government. Don’t see any of our patriotic conservatives here condemning that. Wonder why?

    Hmmmm. Could it be because she believes in this country, but not in its current government? Maybe this patriotic ocnservative isn’t condemning it because the right of private citizens to criticize our government is fundamental, and is an underlying reason for the freedom of speech inherent in the First Amendment? Maybe its because the left continually justified its boorish behavior and attacks by reminding us that “Dissent is the highest form of patriotism”?

  92. “Hmmmm. Could it be because she believes in this country, but not in its current government? Maybe this patriotic ocnservative isn’t condemning it because the right of private citizens to criticize our government is fundamental, and is an underlying reason for the freedom of speech inherent in the First Amendment? Maybe its because the left continually justified its boorish behavior and attacks by reminding us that “Dissent is the highest form of patriotism”?”

    whoa! So it’s called, “believes”-in this country when Palin bashed the President and US over government control and spending in a communist country causing two US officials to walk out on her speech while all the Chinese eat out of the palm of her hand. I was pissed earlier this week when I read about that. What nerve, and it’s so ironic that it’s ridiculous.

    GOP always pulls the patriotism card and now I discover when people call them out on it, it’s called “believing in this country”. Give me a break, hypocrite 😛

  93. Dimwit, you’d have a point if she held office, but since she is a private citizen, it doesn’t matter.

    You’re right DR, because China doesn’t get cable or anything…

  94. This thread sucks. The old thread actually had substance. I don’t get the point in new threads here, there’s no thread discipline, no one stays on topic and they all just turn into mash ups of varrying topics.

    R- MANAGE YOUR THREAD!!! 😦

  95. Obama does it in speeches overseas, so trust me, I have a sense of perspective on this. And to be honest, I don’t even know what the woman even said in China.

    But, dissing the President overseas isn’t cool. Call me old fashion.

  96. Where the hell have you been? All the threads here go off topic, but I agree, R-manage your thread and remove all the ridiculous links and videos that no one responded too.

  97. “R-manage your thread and remove all the ridiculous links and videos that no one responded too.”

    Advise on content…

  98. That wasn’t directed at you, unless you want to inform us that you’re the same person as Elric 🙂

    Anyways, I’m off, this thread is dead and I must study for Spanish exam on Monday. Toodles

  99. “R”,

    I think it’s time to test just how much you really do trust science Tex. Do you believe the sun is a star? Do you believe that like all stars it will eventually burn out?

    ??? Huh? Do I think the sun is a star? No, I think it’s a light bulb. Rutherford, are you snorting glue again?

    I think we should worry about something other than the sun burning out, unless you plan on living a few billion years. Besides, if it does happen to go out, I figure you’ve got eight minutes to concern yourself with it. I’m more worried about THE BOMBA getting Israel or the U.S. nuked because of his incompetence.

    Do you know what this spells for the Earth and mankind? I get the uneasy feeling that you believe the Earth is a self correcting system that will persevere no matter what is thrown at it.

    I think we should respect the earth. I believe it was provided for our pleasure. I think we should exploit its resources within reason and without greed. I believe those resources were provided for us, and in fact will soon have end times repercussions. Have we been greedy? Yes. Do I believe we have irreparably damaged the earth? No. Do I believe in global warming? Absolutely not – I think Elric is right. This is leftist propaganda to game the system.

    Since you believe in the creation, I know you don’t feel the Earth has always existed but I get the sense you believe it will always be here.

    Yes, I do believe the earth will always be here and I believe so on the authority of the word of God. It will not be the world we know now. The Book of the Revelation specifically states,

    And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

    And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

    And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

    And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

    And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

    I am very sure this sounds foolish to you and Wally Curator. But this is what I believe – in fact, I am sure of its truth. I’ll leave it for you to decide what you believe. 😉

  100. Really R, the polls do not support your premise on this…

    Fifty-six percent (56%) of voters nationwide now oppose the health care reform proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform

    Seniors Lean Against New Healthcare Law
    The youngest Americans, aged 18-29, favor it by a 13-point margin, although more than 4 in 10 have no opinion on the issue. Support is more evenly divided among Americans 30-64, while those 65 and older are opposed by a 10-point margin.

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/123164/Seniors-Lean-Against-New-Healthcare-Law.aspx

    Most Americans are satisfied with the quality of their medical care (80%) as well as with their healthcare costs (61%). Still, 42% of insured Americans say rising healthcare costs are a major problem, outranking other healthcare complaints. Few believe healthcare reform will reduce their costs.

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/123149/Cost-Is-Foremost-Healthcare-Issue-for-Americans.aspx

    By 60% to 38%, Americans do not believe that the government can expand healthcare coverage without raising taxes on the middle class or affecting the quality of care.

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/122969/Many-Americans-Doubt-Costs-Benefits-Healthcare-Reform.aspx

    A new Gallup Poll finds 39% of Americans directing their member of Congress to vote against a healthcare reform bill this fall while 37% want their member to vote in favor. Opponents of reform are more likely than supporters to say the issue will be a factor in their 2010 vote.

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/122822/Americans-Sharply-Divided-Healthcare-Reform.aspx

    Obama’s approval rating on healthcare was at 41 percent, unchanged from last month, while 36 percent believed his reform plans were a good idea and 42 percent a bad idea — also unchanged from last month’s NBC/Wall Street Journal poll.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE57I01T20090819

    Now, 47% approve of the job President Obama is doing handling health care, up seven points from last month. 45% disapprove. In a CBS News Poll conducted before the president’s address to Congress on health care, just 40% approved and more, 47%, disapproved.

    [Polling demographics were:
    Total Republicans 289 234 (22%)
    Total Democrats 357 385 (37%)
    Total Independents 396 423 (41%)
    ]

    http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/poll_health_care_092409.pdf?tag=contentMain;contentBody

  101. Tex….

    I sincerely admire your faith. Although I may not agree with you, it is relatively rare these days to see someone who attempts to live by their faith as closely as you apparently do.

    The one thing that does confuse me is this:

    Do I believe in global warming? Absolutely not – I think Elric is right. This is leftist propaganda to game the system.

    I mentioned this in an earlier response but I don’t think you responded. Really – honestly – scientists are an apolitical bunch. We value objectivity over just about everything else. Scientists who allow their political views to influence their science are held in deep disdain. If you want to find a conservative on a college campus (outside the business school) look in science departments.

    I know you will probably not believe me – but the idea that a huge number of scientists would get behind a political conspiracy is patently absurd. That just isn’t how scientists act.

    — hippieprof

  102. “Hell, Tex and Elric probably even disagree with me on this one. But, as bad as this economy is, and as epic as the government spending has been, we are no where near the boiling point yet.”

    We are very close. If the demomarxists get some of these policies in place, they will be impossible to remove and we will be screwed.

  103. “The racist sign holders were pretty much doing a peaceful protest.”

    Who would those be? Show us some of the racist signs drone.

    Ohh and did you come up with a definition of “islamophobia” and some examples yet?

  104. “President Obama dreams of a world without weapons … but right in front of us two countries are doing the exact opposite.

    “Iran since 2005 has flouted five security council resolutions. North Korea has been defying council resolutions since 1993.

    “I support the extended hand of the Americans, but what good has proposals for dialogue brought the international community? More uranium enrichment and declarations by the leaders of Iran to wipe a UN member state off the map,” he continued, referring to Israel.

    The sharp-tongued French leader even implied that Mr Obama’s resolution 1887 had used up valuable diplomatic energy.

    “If we have courage to impose sanctions together it will lend viability to our commitment to reduce our own weapons and to making a world without nuke weapons,” he said.

    Mr Sarkozy has previously called the US president’s disarmament crusade “naive.”

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/09/french-president-sarkozy-mocks-obama-at-un-security-council.html

    LOL Pretty sad when the French diss Thuggy. LMAO

  105. No surprise: Western intel has known about secret Iranian nuke site for years
    posted at 7:05 pm on September 25, 2009 by Allahpundit

    So says Newsweek, Fox News, and the LA Times, pegging the intel breakthrough as early as 2006. Why would they need a small, hidden enrichment site when they’ve already got a nice big one that everyone knows about at Natanz? Wild guess here, but maybe because there’s some ultra-secret nuclear-related project they’re working on that they don’t want anyone to know about.

    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/09/25/no-surprise-western-intel-has-known-about-secret-iranian-nuke-site-for-years/

    Its up to Israel to stop this nuclear nightmare. No one in the West has the spine to stop it.

  106. Study: Regulation costs California economy almost $500 billion
    posted at 5:20 pm on September 25, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
    Share on Facebook | printer-friendly

    Conservatives and liberals often square off over the proper level of government regulation, but most people agree that some level of oversight is necessary to defend against fraud, waste, and abuse. But at what level does the regulation itself become waste and abuse, this time by bureaucrats rather than stakeholders in the markets? Two researchers at California State University Sacramento may not have the answer to that question, but certainly can argue that California has long since passed the threshold (emphases mine):

    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/09/25/study-regulation-costs-california-economy-almost-500-billion/

    Role model for Thuggy’s remaking of America

  107. Hippie,

    I appreciate your honesty and I do believe you’re being honest. You’ve been a gentleman in your dealings with me, so I can’t help but like you. But you are wrong that politics doesn’t enter into the equation, especially on college campuses and science. They are the most loaded of all debates. I’m surprised at your conclusions, because I couldn’t disagree more with your assessment.

    If you think I’m wrong, consider the debate over evolution. That is far from a tested theory – in fact, many of us think it wild speculation and explanation for not so much how it happened, but the real reason for the explanation the ramifications if “nature” can not explain the how and when. Now hear me out, because I don’t care to enter into a debate about the theory itself, but to demonstrate an issue that is completely political – to not admit as much is political in itself in its minimization.

    You can not tell me with a straight face that the entire debate of random mutation and evolution not political. Ben Stein made a money over the “politics” of the debate. I know many scientists who are devoutly atheist in nature. Everything about them is political, including silencing the voices of the unbelievers of their pet science. There is nothing more political or explosive in nature. Right there with politics and religion.

    I know better than to think this talk over global warming completely objective. I too know climatologists who think it is garbage, only to be professionally threatened because of the disagreement – one a personal friend.

    Hippie, you are entitled to your opinion. But it is only an opinion.

  108. (Politico)- Sen. John Ensign (R-Nev.) received a handwritten note Thursday from Joint Committee on Taxation Chief of Staff Tom Barthold confirming the penalty for failing to pay the up to $1,900 fee for not buying health insurance.

    Violators could be charged with a misdemeanor and could face up to a year in jail or a $25,000 penalty, Barthold wrote on JCT letterhead. He signed it “Sincerely, Thomas A. Barthold.”

    The note was a follow-up to Ensign’s questioning at the markup.

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/09/penalty-for-refusing-obamacare-jail.html

    Fascism.

  109. Hey Rutherford,

    Tough question here, but a real one for once.

    Are you the least bit concerned or embarrassed that Obama’s biggest flag wavers happen to be two of the biggest goosesteppers in the Americas?

    I haven’t heard a word from the left bragging about Obama’s huge support from Fidel and Hugo? Does it bother you in the least that Hugo was actually quoting Sean Penn, one of the left’s biggest blowhards?

    You know, I have heard you on many occasions be incredibly critical of FOX News. Yet if you’re known by your enemies, then it would seem that perhaps FOX News may be on the moral side of the equation; that is, unless you are willing to lend your support to Fidel.

    And Obama would seem to have added two more people of incredibly questionable character to his adoring fan base. Move over Bill Ayers, Jeremiah Wright and Tony Rezko. There’s two new kids on the block. 😮

  110. Hippie,

    I just reread that last post and it was awful. Movie, not money. I hope you’ll bear with me. Many of these are written between classes or a quick lunch. I type as fast as I can which is not a my finest talent without proofing much – yesterday an indicator of my mention of Enron stock. 😦

    I’m now at home so I can at least think a little more clearly. Hopefully, you got the jest of my argument from above.

    Have a good weekend.

  111. I swear. I’m losing it. Maybe it’s not time – maybe this schooling thing at an old age really has caused a malfunction.

    Make that gist…

  112. I know you will probably not believe me – but the idea that a huge number of scientists would get behind a political conspiracy is patently absurd. That just isn’t how scientists act.

    That presupposes that they would view the circumstances as political. I’ve held my tongue on this because it simply isn’t a subject that I can get passionate about. My father was a science teacher and he made damn sure that I could interpret scientific data. While we had some differences, arising largely from the fact that science was his god, despite its obvious shortcomings, I generally trusted his insight on scientific subjects. One thing that he was adamant about was that we simply did not have enough data to fix the responsibility for global warming (he died in 2005) on the activity of man. Aside from the hubris that he took away from the conclusion that man was responsible, he felt that the climate modeling used to ‘predict’ the effects were flawed in several ways, and as such, could not be relied upon for any definitive forecast of what might happen if man continued with his actions unchecked. In the years since, I’ve read enough about the fudged data from James Hanson, no changes in the mean ocean temperature for several consectutive years, sunspot activity and the correlation to observed changes in temperature on other planets, and a whole host of scientists whose names were used in the IIPC report who do not want their names to remain on it, and have taken action to get them removed, and then earlier this week, I skimmed an article about a major component of the climate models not even existing. My friends who are passionate about it, and their contempt for the system of indulgences that Al Gore has convinced established industiralized nations is good policy continually refer me to James Watt’s website on the subject “Watt’s Up With That?”. I have yet to go.

    Returning to the point HP made, I don’t necessary believe that the scientists who believe in man-made climate change view it as a political issue the way that the rest of us might. Certainly, there is an element of power and control that some like Gore are eager to exploit, but scientists do get very firmly attached to their own dogmas and can be quite viceral in their response when challenged. One only needs to look at the “Settled Science” of the past, in concepts like ‘phlogiston’, ‘Lamackianism’, or the ptolemaic concept of the world, and the resistance to the concepts that replaced them once it became harder and harder to deny the newer paradigms [boy would my honors prof in college be pleased to note that I actually slogged through Thomas Kuhn’s ‘The Structure of Scientific Revolutions’]. The story of settled science appears to me looking back as the story of consistently changing the paradigm to explain the evidence before us or the results that can be dupicated under controlled conditions.

    On a personal note, I will always be sad that science kept my Dad separated from faith, while it was one of the contributing factors to me finding mine. I seem to remember some scientist being quoted as saying “God is in the details”. I want to attribute it to Einstein, but he made not have been the one.

  113. BiW,

    I am saddened by your father’s loss and always find stories like your own tragic. I too have witnessed someone close who let science separate him from faith. He never did resolve why he could not get his questions answered, never understanding they already had been answered. The concept of faith was simply unacceptable to him, and yet the basic tenet of my own beliefs.

    Mike never did resolve how his friend (me) could simply accept something without what he considered empirical proof. He died tragically earlier this year at 55, one minute here and the next minute gone. What I felt demonstrated proof from hard science, he found as mere coincidence – albeit even he the unbeliever admitted the chances astronomical and mathematically impossible by random chance.

    What he did not understand is that my faith was based on what I perceived as proof. Where he saw questions unanswered, I saw the hand of God. Where I could accept there questions that would never be answered this side of heaven, he felt just a matter of time to be answered by man. Where he asked for proof, I saw prophecy fulfilled and truth. Where he saw billions of years of evolution, I saw a miracle of life.

    When it all is said an done, it truly is a matter of the heart. Throughout the last six years of hard sciences, my own faith has only been strengthened from what I have witnessed.

  114. Why don’t we all start pimping our blog posts here, hey, Rutherford lets Elric do it.

    I must remind you Sensico that Elric has no blog. For reasons unknown to me he aligns himself with WeaselZippers.

  115. I wish Palin would stay home to criticize our government. No need for that shit in China.

    Thank you DR. I know you’re not tickled with the “direction” my blog has taken in recent posts but I do thank you for having the courage to depart from the conservative playbook now and then. That’s why I’m glad you keep coming back.

  116. R- MANAGE YOUR THREAD!!! 😦

    The only way to “manage” is to delete comments and give constant reminders to stay on topic. I like the blog to be a pretty open exchange, particularly in light of the 1st amendment sensitivity of most of my readers. (You don’t know how many times in the early days, when a comment got caught in moderation or spam filter for too many links, that I’d get a “hey have I been banned?”)

    As I think I wrote in a prior thread, the more often I post, the shorter the threads are and the more they tend not to stray. But it’s all a matter of inspiration. On a real emotional week, I’ll write three or four articles. On a week when I’m not particularly moved, I’ll write just one. Honestly, had I had a few more compelling things moving me, I would have bypassed this topic altogether, at least until the investigation progressed further. But, as I said, I found the rush to judgment made by some to be indicative of the dangerous times in which we live … so I went for it.

  117. I am very sure this sounds foolish to you and Wally Curator. But this is what I believe – in fact, I am sure of its truth. I’ll leave it for you to decide what you believe.

    A fair and honest answer. I continue to be fascinated by how devout people reconcile faith and science. Since you acknowledge that the Earth will cease to exist billions of years from now when the sun extinguishes, will that demise of the sun be the work of God .. is it the next heaven and earth that you wrote of in your comment? Or is that end going to come earlier than billions of years from now?

  118. Are you the least bit concerned or embarrassed that Obama’s biggest flag wavers happen to be two of the biggest goosesteppers in the Americas?

    Well putting aside Chavez and Castro, I think everyone including Obama is mortified by Qaddafi’s wish for Obama to be President for life.

    I’ll be perfectly honest with you Tex as I have tried to be with Elric. Latin American politics gets short shrift in our media and I am a creature of the news that hits me in the face … that bubbles to the surface most quickly. So you won’t see me making grand pronouncements about Castro, Chavez, or Zelaya until I feel better informed. After pressure from Elric, I learned enough about the Honduras situation to find the whole damn thing bizarre and to understand why our country might not jump to embrace Micheletti. But would I call myself an expert on the Honduras situation? Not by a long shot.

  119. A fair and honest answer. I continue to be fascinated by how devout people reconcile faith and science. Since you acknowledge that the Earth will cease to exist billions of years from now when the sun extinguishes, will that demise of the sun be the work of God .. is it the next heaven and earth that you wrote of in your comment? Or is that end going to come earlier than billions of years from now?

    Reconcilation of the two is only difficult for those who rigidly cling to science in the belief that in order to do so, one must deny the existence of God. As I stated earlier, Settled Science over time is really the best answer at the time it is declared, as such, it neither proves nor disproves the existence of God.

    If you can see it this way, than the certainty of what the sun will do billions of years hence may or may not be correct, and it may or may not matter to a humanity that expects to see the return of its omnipotent savior…in the fullness of such events, the need for things to continue as we currently contemplate, or for time to be a fire in which all things burn may no longer be necessary or have meaning.

  120. On a personal note, I will always be sad that science kept my Dad separated from faith, while it was one of the contributing factors to me finding mine. I seem to remember some scientist being quoted as saying “God is in the details”.

    As I said to Tex earlier, I find that struggle between science and faith fascinating. To me, saying that God is in the details is simply an acknowledgment that there is a depth of knowledge to which we cannot go. At some point, things are unknowable and then we must attribute them to God.

    BiW, you have said something else here that greatly intrigues me. Are you saying that global warming is equivalent to the belief that the world was flat or that the sun revolved around the earth? In other words, you consider it a theory born of some sort of ignorance that will one day be disproved?

  121. Where he saw questions unanswered, I saw the hand of God.

    It is almost like you, Tex, are confirming my earlier statement that the unknowable is answered as the work of God.

  122. Gorilla, regarding your poll results, please go back and read HippieProf’s excellent discussion of polling. When folks are asked about health care in relation to politics or Obama the reaction tends to be negative. When they are asked about specific features of the bill, divorced from any loaded political labels (Democrats) or names (Obama), they support them … i.e. the public option.

  123. I ponder how bizarre it is to live in a world where other Americans keep trying to tell us that rights are somehow no longer rights because they cannot perceive a need for them.

    Perhaps it is not a matter of not perceiving need for them but rather seeing an immoral end being sought by the pursuit of those “rights”.

    If I understood your Calhoun remark properly, Calhoun favored nullification because to adhere to federal property rights would have tacitly endorsed slavery, an immoral institution. Don’t we get into the issue here that an unjust law is a law that morality compels us to disobey? (Upon doing some quick research, this cannot be what you mean since Calhoun was pro-slavery. His nullification stance had to do with federal tariffs. So now you’ve obviously confused me.)

    Surely you acknowledge that evil can be done under the guise of the first and second amendment. What are we to do when we see that happening?

    P.S, Just to clarify your Calhoun serving under Adams and Jackson … are you saying you find that unusual because Jackson thought Adams stole his election and it would be odd for him to accept a VP who had worked under a President he abhorred? (Just trying to keep my history chops in working order … this blog keeps me on my toes.)

  124. Sensico: “thats pretty lame, I’d recommend not answering the question next time b4 writing another comeback like that. Very juvenile, but Im not surprised.”

    That was even mild. I guess you only think its funny when Elric is the target.

    I suggest you grow up a tad, sweetie. This aint the school debate club, it’s the corner bar. If you are going to hang around and talk politics with a bunch of old men, you are bound to get your chops busted with a dirty little joke now and then.

    Woman up.

    Rutherford: “Now to the point … what is your take on the census? Does it scare you like it does Ms. Bachmann?”

    I’d have to know what Bachmann thinks about it. I must admit, I don’t.

    But no. I am not afraid of the census, and I don’t like fava beans.

  125. Rutherford: “Perhaps it is not a matter of not perceiving need for them but rather seeing an immoral end being sought by the pursuit of those “rights”.”

    Who decides morality?

  126. “Thank you DR. I know you’re not tickled with the “direction” my blog has taken in recent posts but I do thank you for having the courage to depart from the conservative playbook now and then. That’s why I’m glad you keep coming back.”

    Why dont you depart from the leftists and condemn Thuggy when he bashes the US. Hypocrite

  127. “After pressure from Elric, I learned enough about the Honduras situation to find the whole damn thing bizarre and to understand why our country might not jump to embrace Micheletti.”

    Because Thuggy loves Marxists and Honduras gave one the boot, thats why.

  128. “R”,

    I continue to be fascinated, or perhaps mortified would be a better word, the a large part of the world continues to think if they just work hard enough and we all can wait around long enough, we’ll have God all figured out through science. Really?

    Here’s my simplistic thought about the sun burning up Rutherford. Goes something like this:

    Since God the Creator of everything, including the concept of time, then God is not limited by Creation like we are. That means God can be in all places, at all times, for all people, place or thing. We can not possibly understand that because we are incapable of understanding it being we base everything on it. We are very limited in nature. The Word of God speaks of our life as a vapor.

    Second, and less esoteric, when I contemplate the known universe Rutherford (or what I can imagine of its expanse), and think God literally spoke what we know into existence, then your question of our sun burning out becomes moot because creating a new sun seems almost trivial. Apparently a creation has been going on for about 15B years and shows little sign of slowing down.

    And yet Rutherford, for as intelligent as you are, you still can’t figure this out:

    You’re still talking about the physical. I’m talking about the One that made the physical. You can’t seem to overcome the limitation even in imagination there is something more than what you can see Rutherford. That is why I think unbelievers so shallow, though most perceive themselves as superior.

    So I guess it comes down to this simple question Rutherford? Do you believe this is all there is? A physical body, a physical existence, a physical universe that is apparently finite?

    Or do you believe like I do, though I have no idea why God chose the path we follow, that all things are possible with God?

  129. “You’re as bad as Tex … who said anything about race in this article?”

    On the other hand, we have Glenn Beck surmising that Barack Obama has a deep seated hatred for white people. We have Rush Limbaugh blaming black on white school violence on “Obama’s America”

    You did

  130. “If you are going to hang around and talk politics with a bunch of old men, you are bound to get your chops busted with a dirty little joke now and then”

    I didn’t even know it was a dirty joke til now or I would have ignored it. Obviously if you’re an old man making dirty jokes about a 22 yr old then you haven’t matured properly. Obviously I’m to the point of maturity where these type of jokes seem to go over my head. Sorry, but I don’t spend my days in days listening to 50 yr olds make jokes about young women. How about you man up and go to actual bars and prey on the cougars there.

  131. “I must remind you Sensico that Elric has no blog. For reasons unknown to me he aligns himself with WeaselZippers.”

    yeah, so what. He obviously knows the owner and blogwhores for him. Sure, if that’s the case, I’ll get one of my online friends to come here and blogwhore for me then.

  132. I don’t know why you keep asking me that question when I answered it a few threads ago and you commented on my answer. btw, in the future I’ll not be responding to you so get used to it.

  133. “Who decides morality?”

    Morality is based on what a particular society thinks is moral. Usually based on religion at the core.
    But, following literal interpretation of religious texts produces flawed results and conflicts.
    Morality is also a general code of conduct for rational people. Again, created by the specific societies.
    In America, it’s religion that formed our moral code. But questions that religion might not answer is, what do we do when one strays away from the moral code? Throw the bible in their face and hope they read it, or lock them up in jail for execution.

  134. Man – take a few hours away from this blog and you get almost hopelessly behind…..

    😉

    Biw said: Returning to the point HP made, I don’t necessary believe that the scientists who believe in man-made climate change view it as a political issue the way that the rest of us might. Certainly, there is an element of power and control that some like Gore are eager to exploit, but scientists do get very firmly attached to their own dogmas and can be quite viceral in their response when challenged. One only needs to look at the “Settled Science” of the past, in concepts like ‘phlogiston’, ‘Lamackianism’, or the ptolemaic concept of the world, and the resistance to the concepts that replaced them once it became harder and harder to deny the newer paradigms [boy would my honors prof in college be pleased to note that I actually slogged through Thomas Kuhn’s ‘The Structure of Scientific Revolutions’]. The story of settled science appears to me looking back as the story of consistently changing the paradigm to explain the evidence before us or the results that can be dupicated under controlled conditions.

    BiW – I think you are exactly right in this. Scientists (with a few exceptions) absolutely don’t think it is a political issue. It is, for us, a purely scientific issue. That doesn’t mean than non-scientists (like Gore) are not going to use science for their own political ends – but scientists as a group are really not interested in the politics of the thing. Scientists in fact see themselves as above politics, and have open disdain for anyone “selling out” to politicians.

    You are very correct to cite Kuhn, though – because paradigms do indeed change – and when they change it by definition means a complete reassessment of scientific beliefs and assumptions. One interesting characteristic about “normal science” (the period of time between paradigm shifts) is that you don’t really see the shift coming. We probably are in just such a period right now – but I certainly can’t predict when the shift will come or what direction it will take us.

    — hippieprof

  135. Perhaps it is not a matter of not perceiving need for them but rather seeing an immoral end being sought by the pursuit of those “rights”.

    But we are talking about the ends that you see….talk against the current government has as its aim inctiement to kill federal employees, legally bearing a firearm at a public event is a prelude to a massacre…whereas as I can look at these things and see pointed discourse against corruption and arrogance in the former, and the legal exercise of a right that sends a message to arrogant and corrupt elected and appointed officials…namely that a free and knowledgable people refuse to be cowed by those who forget whom they serve in the latter. As our legal system presumes innocence until guilt is proven, it is simply not your role, or that of our leaders to restrict these freedoms based on the “ends” that you “see”. As for the morality or immorailty of these ends, that is another discussion altogether, and in America today, I really do not believe that we are all using the same frame of reference.

  136. “I don’t know why you keep asking me that question when I answered it a few threads ago and you commented on my answer. btw, in the future I’ll not be responding to you so get used to it.”

    You gave some vague definition and no examples and I asked you to elaborate. But go ahead and be a moron and label people with words that you dont even know what they are.

  137. I’m still trying to grasp Rutherford’s blog and his comments. I just don’t get why he hasn’t had the courage to admit he was being plain and simple stupid.

    In the midst of an Al Queda bombing campaign, broken up by the authorities in the nick of time, Rutherford is absolutely frothing at the mouth over some odd death of one person in Appalachia.

    He weirdly ties this death to the conservative movement and then jaw-droppingly makes a leap that that this death, which is totally mysterious in the first place, is an opening act of violence that will be delivered to my own country by people who share my beliefs.

    His premise, facts and conclusion are so twisted, I’m mystified how a smart motherfucker like hippieprof isn’t calling him out on this.

    Reminder to everyone: When the circumstances of the death did not jibe with Rutherford’s meme (God I hate that word) Rutherford’s defense was that his knee jerk reaction has merit because other people like Rutherford also had the same reaction and people like Rutherford are pretty smart.

    Am I wrong here?

    Earth to Rutherford: We just broke up a plot that may have included blowing people up at sporting events.

    It’s like Al Queda is some sort of dirty secret: Their very existence an embarrassment to Rutherford’s world view of a benevolent and omnipotent Obama leading the globe by nothing but a tone of good will.

    I just don’t see how I have common ground with the blog owner if he can’t admit that emotion and some sick desire to paint the motives of conservatives to be evil ruled the day when he posted this junk.

    It has become very apparent by the others who post here lately that I am just an average man, with an average intellect and an average education.

    I can superficially name drop Cicero and Socrates all I want, the Dead Rabbit just doesn’t have what it takes to dissect Calhoun and constitutionalism.

    But can someone, anyone, tell me where I’m wrong here?

  138. Surely you acknowledge that evil can be done under the guise of the first and second amendment. What are we to do when we see that happening?

    The Framers were believers in the Marketplace of Ideas approach; no other conclusion may be drawn from the words “Congress shall make no law…” Having said that, you have touched on one of my pet peeves about how civics was taught back when I took it more than 20 years ago.

    The system of government that we have under the Constitution presumes that citizens will take responsibility for themselves, their actions, and their own security. The rights that give us the potential for evil that you are so afeared of has implicit in it the idea that such a circumstance is inherent in the system but is not necessarily a flaw. The wise men knew this; it was reflected in their quotes on liberty and freedom, i.e. the price of which being eternal vigilence, a republic…if you can keep it, etc.

    The fact that you ask the question seriously indicates that we have people today that want the blessings of liberty without the costs, which include accepting the ‘risk’ that bad people will may act badly with the freedom we are given (for example, before 9/11, air travellers could be accompanied to the gate by freinds and family, and could be met there when they arrived. This was a freedom particularly enjoyed by my oldest son because my wife travels a lot for work. He can’t do this now, and yet tests have shown that the extra security measures can be circumvented with cleverness and determination. The terrorists have not necessarily been thwarted, but a simple pleasure of freedom is gone)…something indicated in other ongoing debates as well, where the underlying premise is that government needs to do this that and the other thing for us, rather than we the people doing these things for ourselves and confining government’s duties to the roles which it was specifically conferred.

    P.S, Just to clarify your Calhoun serving under Adams and Jackson … are you saying you find that unusual because Jackson thought Adams stole his election and it would be odd for him to accept a VP who had worked under a President he abhorred? (Just trying to keep my history chops in working order … this blog keeps me on my toes.)

    Yes. Jackson set a bad precedent for the Democratic Party all through Adams’ Presidency by whining about the “corrupt bargain” of the election. Sadly, many have never let go of the behavior since.

  139. DR,

    Its like what Tex and I have said. He is getting desperate since Thuggy’s utopia has come crashing down.

    Who cares about these bombing plot, who cares about the secret nuke facility in Iran that was discovered, who cares about Thuggy reducing border patrol agents along the violent Mexican border etc. He rather jump the gun because he thought he had a gotcha moment with some poor guy possibly murdered.

    His priorities are all screwed up.

  140. BiW, you have said something else here that greatly intrigues me. Are you saying that global warming is equivalent to the belief that the world was flat or that the sun revolved around the earth? In other words, you consider it a theory born of some sort of ignorance that will one day be disproved?

    I am saying that historically, concepts that were considered by the experts to be “Settled Science” in time turned out to be nothing of the sort. I note that you use the term “global warming” rather than the newer, and improved term “man-made or man-caused climate change”.

    There is plenty of empirical evidence of climate change…cooling and warming periods in the history of the planet. What I have observed is plainly stated above, and can be summed up by the concept that man is causing a signifcant and unnaturally rapid change in the climate is hubris, especially when the conclusion that man is responsible is supported by theorhetical modeling whose statistical probability becomes more and more uncertain the farther you get from the present, may rest on climatological components that may not exist, fudged data, questionable data collection methods, and an unwillingness to consider data not included in the formation of the conclusion. “Ignorance” implies that there is something not known; I imply faults in the methodology, and a narrow view that tries very hard not to look at other things outside the model.

  141. BiW, don’t forget that the underlying data upon which much of the AGW argument rests is “lost” or otherwise unavailable for review.

    Whenever I see people touting the thousands of scientists who support the theory of AGW, I always wonder, how many of them replicated the data and models, and how many just looked at a summary of someone else’s works and said “looks good to me!”

  142. “Who cares about these bombing plot, who cares about the secret nuke facility in Iran that was discovered, who cares about Thuggy reducing border patrol agents along the violent Mexican border etc. He rather jump the gun because he thought he had a gotcha moment with some poor guy possibly murdered.”-Elric

    Elric, you have to be right. There is just no other explanation.

    Do you think Rutherford knows this, or in his own head does he believe the things he says?

    I guess I can empathize with the gotcha game to some extent. We come one here and try to “defeat” one another at times. A cheap shot is a cheap shot. I’m trying to think of a time I have done the gotcha game. While I can’t remember, I’m sure I have.

    But when the dust settles, what is so hard about saying, “Guys, I was all fucked up when i posted that and, in light of the developments this week, skewed reality a ton”.

    Has there even been one arrest at a Tea Party thing? What the hell is R talking about with this dark force of treasonous evil spreading amongst conservatives?

    I think part of the point Tex makes which I 100% agree with is the following: When conservatvies rise up, there will be no ambiguity of what is happening. It will not be some mysterious death that may or may not be a murder by people who may or may not be effing Glen Beck fans.

    Hell, screw guns. We probably could do it with just our bows alone!

  143. “Do you think Rutherford knows this, or in his own head does he believe the things he says?”

    Thats hard to say. My guess he doesnt buy most of the crap he says because usually when confronted, he clams up and dodges.

    “I guess I can empathize with the gotcha game to some extent.”

    true but we do it within a thread. He thought this important enough to start a whole thread without all the facts coming in. My philosophy is that I use the 48 hour rule on things like this. You never get the true story in the first day or two.

  144. Elric, my guess would be not many. Most people are honorable. But I would believe quite a few might fall prey to selection bias in their data, or subconsciously have a bias going in to their experimentation.

    As BiW noted, the complexity of the issue is such that gross assumptions must be made to construct a model. How those assumptions are made will have enormous impact on the results of the modeling. And given the assumptions made, any model is so far from reality that relying on it for anything not almost immediately observable is folly.

  145. R should write a new post. Though the point is clear but the case itself isn´t complete, therefore it´s obviously jumping the gun since the case is the central example in this post.

  146. Densico,

    Got that definition of “islamophobia” yet and some examples yet? You asked me to apologize for it. If you dont know what it is, why should I apologize for it?

  147. Sensico,

    His point is clear- he’s right, we’re wrong. But the evidence just doesn’t support him.

    When there’s no evidence to support his claim, Rutherford moved the goalposts to “well, a lot of us jumped to the same conclusion, so that’s just as good as it being true!”.

    And he implies that if Rush, Beck and the other wingers aren’t LEGALLY responsible for this death (or some other incitement) then they are morally responsible.

    But that’s a charge that can’t be refuted. To be accused is to be guilty. Why? Because it is an entirely subjective opinion. What is moral? I suspect we would find ourselves in general agreement in most criminal matters, but in moral matters, there’s roughly 300 million different standards in the US.

  148. “I must add. Where is that bitch Pelosi getting all chocked up over the violence at the G-20 summit?”

    So True! How laughable!!!!!! These people are fist fighting police, starting fires and smashing businesses up.

    Nothing. Nada.

    Sensico, where are the blogs highlighting the G-20 summit? I thought for sure you would have hundreds of youtube vids of these people.

    I mean come one: goof ball signs of a few conservatives vs. cops literally fighting hundreds of people in riot gear?????

    By the way, many of them refer to themselves as anarchists.

    They use the name incorrectly. They are, in fact leftists. I’m not saying they have any connection to the Democratic Party, becuase I don’t think they really do. But anarchists they are not.

  149. “His point is clear- he’s right, we’re wrong. But the evidence just doesn’t support him.

    When there’s no evidence to support his claim, Rutherford moved the goalposts to “well, a lot of us jumped to the same conclusion, so that’s just as good as it being true!”. “-xbradtc

    xbradtc,

    So true, man. (or woman)

    I may have been one of the first people to consistently comment on his writings. He has posted some thought provoking stuff in the past. He has posted many things I disagree with and has every now and then resorted to emotionalism and cheap shots.

    But I have never seen him take such a laughable and illogical stance on something before. In many ways, his defense of his blog is 100 times worse then the blog itself. And the blog itself was off big time!

    I’m at a loss for words.

  150. of course itś in my nature to post these youtube videos, I just got finished watching these protest videos. Some were funny because you know kids are all up and arms about police presence and when one gets arrested, they say, ¨but he was being peaceful¨ though you know these people are gonna get released with probably one ticket.
    But the video of the night riots where college students were by their dorms the police looked really scary it´s like out of a movie where people are in a police-state or something. Government take over or something. Anyways, I posted picture from the riots at the last g20 protests, I dont plan on blogging til Monday actually.

    And I dont know. I saw some sign that called the US fascist so I tempted to think some where conservative

  151. DR,

    And they wonder why real Americans are pissed off. More violence in one day at the G-20 than the 8 months of protests against Thuggy and the demomarxist agenda.

    And here is Dodger’s “excuse” for the violence and his lack of condemnation of it.

    “All this proves is that the Tea Partiers are too dumbass to gather at a conference devoted to world affairs. “Duh, you mean there are countries outside the US of A?” They’d rather get together to bash their own country.”

    I seriously dont understand how anyone views Dodger as an intellectual.

  152. Well what would you all preferred for him to blog about¿!
    I think Rs blog is fine, the point of this post is that right wing lunatics words can go into action. Are you all forgetting the death of the abortion doctor?

  153. And I dont know. I saw some sign that called the US fascist so I tempted to think some where conservative

    Oh, please, the leftists have been calling the government, and especially the police, fascist pigs for 45 years.

  154. Are you all forgetting the death of the abortion doctor?

    I guess I was, since I was still thinking about the man gunned down for holding an anti-abortion sign.

  155. GOP Rep. Aaron Schock Was Target of Jihadist Attack by Muslim Convert Talib Islam….

    Rep. Aaron Schock’s (R-Ill.) office in Illinois state capital of Springfield was one of the targets of a planned terrorist attack, his office said Friday.

    Michael C. Finton, known as Talib Islam, was arrested Wednesday after trying to detonate a van he believed was stuffed with explosives near the Paul Findley Federal Building in Springfield. Finton had been collaborating on the attack with an undercover FBI agent and is being charged with attempting to murder federal officers or employees and trying to detonate a weapon of mass destruction, according to the Associated Press.

    “My office was notified today of the attempted terrorist attack on both the Federal Building and my Congressional Office in Springfield,” Schock said in a statement. “I am incredibly grateful to the FBI for their fine work in preventing this terrorist attack.”

    Schock’s office was a secondary target, according to an Associated Press report.

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/09/gop-rep-aaron-schock-was-target-of-jihadist-attack-by-muslim-convert-talib-islam.html

    I guess Schock was an “islamophobe”

  156. Hmmm I wonder is Talib islam was a tea partier since he was targeting a Federal building and Federal employees. You going to do a post on this Dodger? Come on Dodger. Still not clear on the hanged guy but this a lot more clear cut. I know how you love to smear Conservatives, lets have one on the smearing of muslims since it was a muslim attempting to bomb a Federal building. He is white so you can even work in a racist angle.

  157. ““All this proves is that the Tea Partiers are too dumbass to gather at a conference devoted to world affairs. “Duh, you mean there are countries outside the US of A?” They’d rather get together to bash their own country.” -Rutherford’s response to G-20 Protester Violence compared to the lack of violence at Tea Parties

    Was he being serious? Or was it a lame joke. Did he use one of those smiley face things?

    It’s certainly an ultimate…dodge.

    What happened to Rutherford?

    I think he really put all his mental marbles into this “People who disagree with Obama MUST either be TREASONOUS or RACIST” thing to the point where Rutherford has become a laughing stock to anyone with an IQ over 80.

    He has bet the farm, almost everything he has written since March on something that has become impossible to defend.

    He’s screwed!

    The shitty thing is it has ultimately taken a lot of the fun out of this blog.

    I’ve been so busy I haven’t been able to catch all the comments.

    Are the other liberals reading comments like that and high fiving one another?

    I just can’t see hippieprof reading that, giving his beard a quick stroke, and agreeing.

    I guess what I’m saying is Rutherford has become so unintellectual I’m stunned.

  158. “I guess what I’m saying is Rutherford has become so unintellectual I’m stunned.”

    I guess I havent been on here long enough to have seen the intellectual Dodger.

  159. An Inconvenient Question: Journalist Asks “Green” Celebrities Attending Premiere of “Age of Stupid” Documentary Which Claims People Shouldn’t Fly How They Got There…Hilarity Ensues….

    Green fascists

  160. Elric,

    Things started to change with him after the first Tea Party back in the Spring.

    I seriously think it must have rocked his world to learn that there is a populist brand of conservatism. He tried to refute it many different ways…astro turf….racism…talk show hosts…FOX News…and now, unmitigated evil.

    Instead of refuting the people’s beef, he has done nothing but attack the people themselves.

    I don’t even think he would disagree with me over that one.

    Actually, I don’t know what to think about the guy.

  161. DR,

    I think he thought Thuggy’s race would protect him from criticism. That people actually rose up and said we dont want this socialist crap must have come to a big shock. I also think he isnt used to people pushing back since we sat back and tried to be nice for so long.

  162. Tex,

    I have been wanting to get back to what you said least night and it keeps getting shoved down in the queue…. but here it is at last.

    First, a little bit about my own religious beliefs because it is somewhat relevant.

    I would call myself an honest agnostic. A lot of people think that being an agnostic is a chickenshit position – but I actually don’t think so. I don’t have your faith, and I do value empirical evidence – so I can’t say that I firmly believe in a god. I don’t firmly disbelieve either because there is so much we don’t know about the universe it would be damned arrogant for me to state that a god does not exist. The same goes for science. I do believe in the empirical method and I like to believe that it is leading us to the truth – but I also realize that there is so much that we don’t know – and science in the end could indeed turn out to be wrong. Theories indeed are not confirmed and in the end they may well end up being wrong.

    So – I really don’t know for sure. What I try to do is to live as honest and moral of a life as I can. Where does that morality come from? Who knows for sure?

    As far as evolution is concerned, you say:

    …consider the debate over evolution. That is far from a tested theory – in fact, many of us think it wild speculation and explanation for not so much how it happened, but the real reason for the explanation the ramifications if “nature” can not explain the how and when. Now hear me out, because I don’t care to enter into a debate about the theory itself, but to demonstrate an issue that is completely political – to not admit as much is political in itself in its minimization. You can not tell me with a straight face that the entire debate of random mutation and evolution not political.

    I can indeed tell you for me that it is not political – not even in the slightest. I “believe” in evolution because to me it makes the most empirical sense. No – it is not completely confirmed experimentally – but I do feel that there is sufficient evidence in its favor that I can accept it as a valid scientific THEORY. (I won’t go into why I think that out of respect for your request not to debate the specifics).

    This is not to say that for some people evolution is not about politics – but I suspect most of those people are not scientists.

    By the way – one reason I can be confident that for me it isn’t about politics is that I started believing in evolution while I was still to the right of the political spectrum. I still had two votes for Reagan and two votes for G.H.W. Bush in my future when I first decided that evolution made sense…..

    — hippieprof

  163. Hippie,

    One great thing about being in the medical field, and contrary to what wonderful Rutherford thinks, you don’t have to be a doctor to know this. Macro evolution is at best wild speculation. One look at a single cell, and you think, “now how did this simply come out of nothingness again?”

    I can shoot major league holes in the “theory” of evolution and never leave the constructs of mammalian biology. In fact, molecular biology has in many ways shot so many holes in macro evolutionary ideas that I’m surprised it’s still a huge debate. Wasn’t too many years ago Neanderthal our common ancestor accord to the scientific community until mitochondrial DNA blew that theory out of the water when they were shown to be simian. I just wish some academician would bring me the bones of a 25,000 year man or woman. Seems to be in short supply – like none. But they do continue to miraculously find 7.8 million year old fossils proposed as our ancestors.

    Like I’ve said before, I do not believe the argument has much to do with science, even on college campuses. I do think it has much to do with the ramifications of scientists not prepared to answer how life magically came into being. Some of the theories now are really comical and seem to change by the week.

    Nonetheless, believe as you must and I won’t argue. But to say this issue not political in nature Hippie? Don’t know how you do it with a straight face. 😉

  164. Any of you good libs want to justify the rationale for this? Banks are loansharking American citizens for 30% interest rates that those same citizens bailed out.

    The unmitigated gall of men who do these things continues to amaze me. These bankers should be lined up and shot, or dragged down Wall Street with a rope around their neck.

    Absolutely disgusting. Even if I were an honest agnostic and a big fan of Bill Maher or Rosie O’Donnell, these things would sicken me.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125383160812639013.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLTopStories

  165. (National Post)- Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi has cancelled a planned visit to Canada next week.

    Officials confirmed Saturday that Gadhafi had scrapped plans to land in Newfoundland this Tuesday to refuel his plane.

    One report said hotel reservations for the leader had been cancelled and his advance team had left.

    The planned visit had caused a stir in Canada, with Prime Minister Stephen Harper ordering Foreign Minister Lawrence Cannon to greet the despot upon his arrival to express this country’s outrage over the reception Libya recently gave to the newly released Lockerbie bomber.

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/09/gadhafi-cancels-visit-to-canada-after-pm-harper-orders-his-foreign-minister-to-berate-him-at-the-air.html

    Harper orders islamist thugs to be bitched out, Thuggy embraces them.

  166. Tex saId…. Any of you good libs want to justify the rationale for this? Banks are loansharking American citizens for 30% interest rates that those same citizens bailed out.

    Tez – I won’t defend it – I think it is disgusting.

    Now – whenever I mention something about regulating the financial industry I am called a socialist trying to destroy the free market…. an enemy of freedom. The condemnation is going to have to come from your side. So – anyone on the right (other than Tex) willing to rally against this?

    — hp

  167. I will but its very conditional.
    #1 Too big too fail must never be uttered again.
    #2 The capitalization plans being muttered are not gonna help. There just simply isn’t the money for it. I don’t know the cure for that but that is one bad mojo reg.
    #3 I want better regulators and regulations. Not new and more.
    That’s what I’m up for HP. Am I a potential ally or just a pain ?

  168. “The condemnation is going to have to come from your side. So – anyone on the right (other than Tex) willing to rally against this?”

    hippieprof, it was your interventionist Utopian fucktard friends that set the table for these pigs to eat at.

    No way, sir.

    They go down, you go down.

    ________________________________________________
    When the house of cards falls maybe we will set up a type of Thunder-dome where asshole bankers fight tenured professors over a few crusts of bread.

    The intelligentsia is guilty as charged.

  169. “We need to finish the fight in Afghanistan… George Bush and John McCain have been weak on terrorism. It’s time to finish the fight in Afghanistan.”

    Barack Obama
    2008 Presidential Campaigning

    I knew he was lying.

  170. When the house of cards falls maybe we will set up a type of Thunder-dome where asshole bankers fight tenured professors over a few crusts of bread.

    The intelligentsia is guilty as charged.

    😆

    CLASSIC!

  171. Dog-Feces Ice Cream
    America and Libya are defined by their differences.

    By Mark Steyn

    Half a decade or so back, I wrote: “It’s a good basic axiom that if you take a quart of ice-cream and a quart of dog feces and mix ’em together the result will taste more like the latter than the former. That’s the problem with the U.N.”

    Absolutely right, if I do say so myself. When you make the free nations and the thug states members of the same club, the danger isn’t that they’ll meet each other half-way but that the free world winds up going three-quarters, seven-eighths of the way. That’s what happened in New York last week. Barack Obama is not to blame for whichever vagary of United Nations protocol resulted in the president of the United States being the warm-up act for the Lunatic-for-Life in charge of Libya. But it is a pitiful reflection upon the state of the last superpower that, when it comes to the transnational mush drooled by the leader of the free world or the conspiracist ramblings of a terrorist pseudo-Bedouin running a one-man psycho-cult of a basket-case state, it’s more or less a toss-up as to which of them is more unreal. To be sure, Colonel Qaddafi peddled his thoughts on the laboratory origins of “swine flu” and the Zionist plot behind the Kennedy assassination. But, on the other hand, President Obama said: “No nation can or should try to dominate another nation.”

    ↓ Keep reading this article ↓

    http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZjdjNjhkOTI1NDBhNGY4MzJjMGUxYmYzYjM4N2NiMjE=

  172. dr said…. hippieprof, it was your interventionist Utopian fucktard friends that set the table for these pigs to eat at.

    OK – before I defend my fucktard friends – can you clarify a little more how I we set this up? Credit card companies have been charging absurdly high rates for many years – and my sense is that it is a function of deregulation. I am willing to be convinced otherwise, but I need some specifics….

    — hp

  173. I know I’m possibly in for another lecture from DR and R about me not “experiencing the world enough yet to comment”.

    But maybe if Americans showed some restraint in spending then credit card companies wouldn’t feel they can hike up rates and get over on people. I really don’t understand the fascination with credit cards. I must admit I’m probably the least frugal person here. I budget my little bit of money and plan 3 months in advance for bills and so forth. If I don’t have the money in the bank then I’m not buying something plain and simple. Theres really a level of stupidity on the behalf of people that get credit cards knowing they can’t pay the money back on time.

    I ran over a curb, busted tire, rim and something else didn’t have any money on me and forced to get a Goodyear credit card, I would have rather rode the bus if I knew I couldn’t pay the $301. People have to think smart and about the future. People should also learn that they don’t have to get worked over by companies. I just can’t believe with all the news about how credit card companies are raising rates and you hear all these stories about people’s credit being f-ed up that people hardly making $150,000+ a yr would even bother.

  174. “R” you’re not active on your blog anymore. Everything ok? I always get weary of bloggers that increasingly become less active, though there is usually a point in every bloggers “life” that things get boring and uninteresting but usually that subsides.

    I emailed one blogger for little activity and got a long ass email about their life, do you need me to email you so you can vent out your feelings in a private way, lol

  175. A Bush supporter commenting about an Obama supporter’s lecture on spending and evils of borrowing money you can’t pay back. Oh, and a guy that makes lame dirty jokes about someone half his age. How am I not surprised. Sums up the republican party.

  176. Red,

    An Obama supporter giving a lecture on responsible spending and the evils of borrowing money you can’t pay back.

    Guess I wasn’t the only one who saw a little irony in another of Densico’s moral platitudes about responsibility and being an avid Obama supporter. The light bulb never does seem to turn on with these guys and gals from the left.

    Anybody think Densico will have a clue what we are talking about in the way of Obama, borrowing money, and responsible spending?

    Or will she again choose not to notice the Grand Canyon sized hole in her logic vs. her political message and support? 😮

  177. Come on dude. It’s an old story by now.

    You and your dreamer friends envisioned a world where every fatherless family owns a kick ass house.

    Screw the real world, let’s throw money at unicorns.

    Thus, Fanny Mae, subsidized by Nanny, manipulated the market, allowing every ass clown and their brother to buy a house. The private market responded in kind, and the whirl wind of sub prime stink wafted throughout our land.

    CEO Franklin Raines, who was already cooking the books and getting personally rich, started to create those crazy ass securitized instruments by repackaging the shit and selling it again. Shareholders still demanded a profit after all. What to do, what to do?

    The Democratic Party, pretending to fight the good fight for minorities, enjoys major Fanny kick backs at the same time the current chair of the House Financial Services Committee, Barney Frank, was literally sucking Fanny Mae executive Herb Moses’ cock. Herb Moses was Fannie Mae’s chief executive in charge of affordable housing and home improvement lending programs.

    The reckless pricks on Wallstreet, realizing there is no way that the mother of Frankenstein would ever kill Frankenstein, join in and bad paper is repackaged and sold all over the place as a money making fund to grandma and a pension to the local fire house.

    Barney Frank slurps away, taking a break only to tell us that that anyone trying to stop this madness is racist, thus, the only hope we had to avoid disaster, the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, was shot down.

    While the government’s left hand was still playing stinky finger with the market, Bush and the Republicans started “deregulating,” allowing Wallstreet to go crazy with derivatives in a market fundamentally regulated in the first place! Credit Card companies get loose as a goose repackaging their shit too!

    Fools like me go crazy with the Discover Card and….splat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Being the nation of pussies that we are, we decide not to take our lumps. Instead we double down and pawn our children to the Chinese. No crisis goes to waste as “stimulus” programs cover for pork. Groups like ACORN are slotted for billions of dollars.

    Do I fully understand this shit? No.
    Have I explained this all correctly? Probably not.

    But make no mistake about it; your interventionist friends started this cluster fuck.

  178. Jackson set a bad precedent for the Democratic Party all through Adams’ Presidency by whining about the “corrupt bargain” of the election. Sadly, many have never let go of the behavior since.

    I promised myself I wouldn’t answer any comments tonight as it is very late and I had a busy day that kept me away from the blog … but …

    BiW … you comparing Adams v. Jackson to Bush v. Gore? 🙂 Methinks so.

  179. Maybe Rutherford is in some warehouse, tied up with duck tape, the radio blaring “Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the Right” as some Glen Beck fan prepares to carve FED in his chest.

  180. sensico, why don’t you move out and be an adult? Your not being responsible by living with your parents.

    It’s not really a lecture. Your parents ARE your credit card. How do you not see that?

  181. “I ran over a curb, busted tire, rim and something else didn’t have any money on me and forced to get a Goodyear credit card, I would have rather rode the bus if I knew I couldn’t pay the $301”

    Holy crap you’re too much. YOU DON’T HAVE THE $301!!!!!

    You don’t see that? The only reason you think you do is becuase Mommy and Daddy essentially allow you to have an allowance.

    It’s like the elementary school store or something.

    You don’t remotely sustain yourself. If Mommy and Daddy forced you to pay for only 1 of the thousands of things you currently get from the teet, no tire.

    You are not some example of responsibility. I was out of my house for half a decade by the time I was your age.

    It fucking nauseates me to hear you talk about how financially savvy you are.

    Go rent an apartment, pay for every meal, your car, insurance, energy, gas, tuition, medical expenses, you tube, dentist, etc. etc. etc.

    Grow up. You’re not a child. Aren’t you like 22 years old? WTF?

    You disrespect your parents every time you come one here and brag about how great of an example you are to the rest of America.

  182. Tex said…. Nonetheless, believe as you must and I won’t argue. But to say this issue not political in nature Hippie? Don’t know how you do it with a straight face.

    I wish I had a webcam – you could see that I am saying it with a straight face.

    No – the issue isn’t political for me. In fact – I am not sure what political issue I am supposedly advocating. Can you give me a hint?

    Perhaps you think I am trying to destroy religion or something. Believe me – I am not. I encourage my students to think critically and actively examine their faith because I think an unexamined faith isn’t faith at all – it is instead rote memorization. I think active examination can actually make their faith stronger.

    The same occurs when I teach about evolution. I do present criticisms of the theory. I have students critique the theory in their papers. As long as they support their point they don’t get graded down for coming out against the theory. My attitude toward evolution is the same as my attitude toward faith. They need to critically evaluate the theory before they can truly say they believe it or don’t believe it.

    You said you didn’t want to debate evolutionary theory – and then went ahead and got off a few shots. I am happy to debate it if you want to.

    Your remarks concentrated on macroeveolution. Does that mean you are conceding microevolution?

    — hp

  183. “R” you’re not active on your blog anymore.

    Well believe it or not, I’m running as fast as I can. As I post this comment 256 (unless one of you have slipped another in at 1 in the morning EDT) I’ve just finished a day of cheering on my wife who did her first 5K walk, and then attending an all afternoon neighborhood party. The fact that I do love this blog is why I’m sitting here reading the 60+ comments that came in while I was away.

    I’m actually flattered that DR (at least DR) considers this last post such a let down. I think I said somewhere in this thread, that this probably would not have been my preferred topic. Someone mentioned the 48 hour rule on news events and I usually abide by that. Sh*t changes fast and the first blush version is usually off the mark. I tried to make a subtle argument here about how the current national climate makes this first blush conclusion logical and likely. I confess that I may have failed. Not everything I write is going to be hit out of the park. (I do find some comfort in the fact that I am not the only “chicken little” to write about this in the blogosphere. The fact that some of you expect a “higher standard” from me, is actually humbling and rather satisfying.)

  184. BiW, I see that the “Constitution as Christian doc” topic is gaining steam over at your blog. That is fine if you want to keep the discussion there. If not, let me know and I will create a “stub” post on this blog and copy over the comments thus far. I do think it is a topic more of my readers would like to weigh in on but I don’t want to get into a push-and-pull with your blog. Let me know what you’re comfortable with.

  185. HP,

    Micro-evolution? Sure…our own immune systems do it every day. Bacteria mutate and become resistant to an antibiotic. Can’t create a vaccine for the HIV or the cold because because the viruses mutate so quickly. Having said all that, a virus is still a virus after a billion years; a prokaryote still a prokaryote. Can’t find a bit of proof of species jumping…the fossil record a jumbled mess; for everything you an show me in the genome, I can make an equal argument for something else. Everything offered as proof, I can shoot down. You’re welcome to try if you must.

    But here’s my first question. Since I assume you would agree the universe is finite, can you provide a suggestion of the physical construct that created something from nothing? If you can’t, then by definition your null hypothesis is not natural, but supernatural.

    Micro or macro evolution leading from one species to another through random mutation? If I take out the math, the chemistry, the biology, the physics, the stats…well, I can make evolution work. Of course, the chances of it happening are mathematically impossible.

    However, if you consider yourself an expert and wish to debate, I supposed I’m game.

  186. BTW … Tex, I know you find this hard to believe but HippieProf pretty much expressed my view towards God. I don’t consider myself an atheist. I don’t think I’m smart enough to say definitively there is no God. There are many aspects of our existence that fill me with wonder, for which there is no explanation. Could a “God” be behind the unexplainable? Sure it could. Where I encounter a problem is when religion marries God as scientific explanation for the unknown to God who dictates morality. That is where the discomfort starts to set in for me.

  187. Now I’m going to bed to get some rest and hope that the FED scars on my chest heal by the morning. That damn Glenn Beck fan did work me over in that warehouse.

    By the way, can anyone account for Elric’s whereabouts today? 😉

  188. “Oh please do elaborate on this, nice guy! ROTFL”

    I will once you elaborate why Thuggy allowed islamists and despots into the nation.

    “By the way, can anyone account for Elric’s whereabouts today?”

    I posted plenty of stuff yesterday for you to dodge.

    Lets start with this Dodger, you going to respond?

    223. Elric66 | September 26, 2009 at 2:46 pm

    Hmmm I wonder is Talib islam was a tea partier since he was targeting a Federal building and Federal employees. You going to do a post on this Dodger? Come on Dodger. Still not clear on the hanged guy but this a lot more clear cut. I know how you love to smear Conservatives, lets have one on the smearing of muslims since it was a muslim attempting to bomb a Federal building. He is white so you can even work in a racist angle.

  189. “R”,

    You need to stick with politics. You pen wonderful political hot potatoes, chock full of leftist innuendo, pinkoism, cowardice, defending the indefensible, whining, American conservative hating, and the ever vigilant charges of Bomba’s abject failure due to racism.

    But man, your science questions are lame. I feel like I’m corresponding with Densico the Puerile. 👿 Snap out of MAN!

    Dr. Tex needs to make his first blog diagnosis. You used to be better than this. I think you’re suffering blog burnout i.e. Chen, and a severe case of Bomba hysteria, correlating to his being exposed as a dishonest fraud.

    What you need to do is to pull out your DVD player and play over and over the good, old days where Pres. elect Barack Obama stood in front of Greek columns in football stadiums, overflowing with speeches of meaningless rhetoric and moral platitudes, as fellow idiots fans clapped in unison chanting his name. OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA.

    Remember? With lightning bolt in one hand, Koran in the other where the new Malcolm X preached his Sermons on the Mount Football Stage coining cheap cliches like “Hope & Change.” Where Michelle Zira talked of a foot on the throat of white America of love by Obama’s side, two cute kids in tow.

    The clinical case of bipolar blog irregularity has become all too obvious. You need something good to happen in your life – like a bump in the THE BOMBA polls. Watch a little Keith Olbermann and listen to his hateful rhetoric to cheer you up again. There, you will be with Keith and his eight viewers to cheer you up and you can yearn for the good, old days.

    ~ A concerned blog mooch

  190. Tex,

    He is so burnt out and dodgeful he missed my plethora of posts yesterday. Is regressive dementia setting in?

    And I do want to see his next post be on anti Government muslim converts wanting to blow up Federal buildings. 🙂

  191. Red, please stop being a pervert for one second, it really goes against those conservative values you claim to have.

    DR, please I pay rent, have a job and my own money. Your rants are laughable taking into account the facts. Bush started bailing out wall street, massive spending and begging other countries or money. So the irony in attacking me is truly something amazing.

  192. I never said credit card companies should be regulated any more then they already are but I think consumers play a huge role in deciding where a company goes. People either don’t read the fine print and get hit with higher rates or they don’t get the credit card.’

    Companies adapt to consumer behavior.

  193. “I was out of my house for half a decade by the time I was your age.”

    I hate when old people say that because you know their rent back in the 1940s was like $50 lol

  194. “DR, please I pay rent, have a job and my own money. Your rants are laughable taking into account the facts. ”

    You weirdly broke down your costs to us once. You don’t pay shit for rent, or anything else. Your parents let you “help out” with your tip money to help boost self esteem.

    You live in a house that probably rivals Rutherford’s. Trust me, you don’t pay rent.

    You work part time as a fricking waitress. Do the math. Your parents are your credit card.

    Say it again to yourself.

    YOUR PARENTS ARE YOUR CREDIT CARD.

    Quit making a fool out of yourself, and just admit that when it comes to financial independence, your clueless.

  195. You’re so clueless about my life, I just love how you make assumptions on where I live and what job I have.
    I used to be a waitress, good money and I stay in Macomb county, not that rich and I live in a fabulous apartment with my mom who works at the hospital. See, I’m just an average Macomb county resident. And My parents don’t give me anything I haven’t earned. If they did then I’d be a spoiled brat wasting money.

    I love how you think you have a monopoly on judgment or think you’re better equipped to talk about spending just because you live next to a crackhead and probably had to skip on paying a bill or two. You’re such a hater.

  196. You skip on paying all kinds of bills. Remeber? You broke it all down for us, for reasons I never understood.

    We all laughed at you. Remember?

    Seriously, you’re insecurity over this is more then telling.

    It’s not a big deal, lady.

    You, like millions of other twenty somethings, delay adulthood so that you can go to college.

    Hell, maybe my son will do the same thing.

    But, the facts are the facts. You don’t sustain yourself. And like millions of people who don’t come up with the money needed to make it in life, you use credit. Well, kind of. Your lucky, Mommy and Daddy play the role of credit by paying bills for you.

    You act like I come on here and pick on you. I just find it odd for someone who is able to live becuase of the gifts of another person would come on here and judge others who don’t have the same luxury.

    The funny thing is I do agree with what your ultimately saying for the most part.

    I can’t wait your take on life the minute it hits you that, “holy shit, I need to mow the lawn. Holy shit, I have to buy a lawn mower but my fridge is broken and my student loans are no longer in deferment and I have a wedding to go to and I don’t want to look cheap and my brakes are squeaking and I love cable internet but my clothes look like I’m a derelict and the ground beef I bought is going to waste and…………….”

    I hope that marine biology degree works out for you.

    I’ll make sure to buy a chocolate covered frozen banana after I take a bad shit for you to clean up in the Sea World bathroom.

  197. “Bush started bailing out wall street, massive spending and begging other countries or money. So the irony in attacking me is truly something amazing.”

    What the hell does that mean, simpleton?

    No one bitched about that more then me here when it went down. Do you think I’m some kind pro-Bush blogger like you are Obama?

    I root for the Detroit Tigers, not an individual politician.

    Go back to exposing offensive signs or something and writing things that people have to ask, without sarcasm, “What the hell does that even mean”?

    Your whole,” twice my age and I’m just a child thing” is very old. I already served my country for 4 years by the time I was your age.

    By the way do you enjoy the reek of Lake St. Clair? I’m sure you have your share of crack heads too, over there in smelly ass Macomb.

  198. DR,

    Just thought I would save you some frustration. There is a point where you just have to give up trying to have an intelligent debate with drones. Its not worth the headache.

  199. lmao, the responses here are hilarious. btw, so you think it’s ok for some pervert online to attack me with a vibrator joke lol I’d like to see your membership card to the Glenn Beck and Tea Party cult when Bush was spending massively. Until then, you’re a hypocrite.

    btw, I don’t hate weasels zippers, I hate blog whores. You should be on a corner somewhere.

  200. Obama Leads International Effort to Divide Jerusalem
    “Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided.”

    Barack Obama
    Speech to American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC)
    June 4, 2008

    Does Thuggy ever tell the truth?

  201. Sensico: “Red, please stop being a pervert for one second, it really goes against those conservative values you claim to have.”

    You don’t know what the hell you are talking about.

    I have never ever claimed to be a social conservative. Stop applying your stereotypes to what you think I believe. Like you recently told someone else, you don’t know shit about me.

    And kindly get the fuck over a simple 1-line joke that I assumed you were mature enough to handle. It’s getting to the point where you are protesting a bit too much to convince anyone that it doesn’t apply to you.

    “Bush started bailing out wall street, massive spending and begging other countries or money.”

    And fiscal conservative continue to fault him for that.

    I’d offer to sell you a clue, but I’d hate for you to have to ask your mommy and daddy for the $$$. It appears you would need a lot of it, because, trust me…you need the JUMBO size.

    “I hate when old people say that because you know their rent back in the 1940s was like $50 lol”

    Yeah, and we made $1 hr. I guess you forgot that part of the idea of inflation. Better repeat that Econ 101 course.

  202. Poll: What was the Obamateurism of the Week?
    posted at 9:10 am on September 27, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
    Share on Facebook | printer-friendly

    According to my Merriam’s dictionary definition of Sunday, it’s time for another poll to choose the Obamateurism of the Week. Some may disagree with the eventual winner, but let me say that I will always stand with the voters who demand to be heard (except when you get in the way of my desire to suck up to foreign lunatic dictators, of course). The idea is to get the one that best highlights the amateurism of President Whosits, which can mean anything from taking their ball and going home to failing to read one’s speech before delivering it. Enjoy!

    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/09/27/poll-what-was-the-obamateurism-of-the-week-16/

    Dont forget to vote

  203. Red Pill,

    Although sensico isn’t nearly articulate enough to make this point, in her defense, I think there is some truth to her 1940 joke she made.

    I swear it’s ten times harder for a young person to make a go of it these days with out mom and dad.

    College tuition ensures massive debt. Jobs worthy of a young person to survive on his own are practically non existent. Particularly in sensico’s and Rabbit’s state.

    I used the GI Bill and worked a job I almost think the average person should not be expected to do (roofing) to make it. I still owe 39 grands in student loans. (Admittedly, I was also pretty damn stupid and at times not very disciplined.)

    And things have gotten ton worse since the 90s.

    It’s not sensico’s fault for still living on her mom and dad’s dollar.

    It’s just to bad she doesn’t get the reality of it all.

  204. “btw, so you think it’s ok for some pervert online to attack me with a vibrator joke”

    Whoa….this is some Freudian shit. Your still outraged over a dirty quip from last week?

    It was a dirty joke. People make them on here sometime. You’ve brought up Elric’s sexuality enough, I’m surprised a thinly veiled funny about masturbation has disturbed you so much.

    it’s not like you are constantly barraged with innuendos here.

    Damn, you are sheltered.

  205. Tex said Micro or macro evolution leading from one species to another through random mutation? If I take out the math, the chemistry, the biology, the physics, the stats…well, I can make evolution work. Of course, the chances of it happening are mathematically impossible. However, if you consider yourself an expert and wish to debate, I supposed I’m game.

    OK – I finally have some time to respond here.

    I don’t consider myself an expert in the sense that I don’t publish professionally in evolutionary biology. However, I am pretty well trained in the area, and it is related to my are of expertise.

    I am sure both of us know all of the moves here, and both of us know in advance that we will play to a draw. Unless we are doing this for the benefit of our readers there isn’t much sense in taking the time to have a full-blown debate.

    Here is how I suspect such a debate would go:

    You will open with a statistical model showing that, given certain assumptions about mutation rate and selection factors, that there simply hasn’t been enough time for present day species diversity to have evolved via natural selection. I will counter by questioning some of the assumptions of your model, and will show that with different assumptions evolution is in fact quite possible. I will also note that your model does not take into account certain factors – such as speciation produced by microevolution in reproductively isolated populations. In the end, we will have a draw because neither of us will accept the other’s assumptions.

    You will then move to gaps in the fossil record. It will probably surprise you but I will concede that indeed the fossil record is incomplete and will probably always will be incomplete – though I will note that the conditions under which fossilization occurs are so rare that the incomplete record is in fact to be expected.

    You will see the gaps in the fossil record as evidence against the theory. I will see this as a lack of a certain type of evidence for the theory – and I will note that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. I will note that a THEORY does not require that all possible evidence is there. Neither of us will concede anything additional on this line of argument – so we will again be at a draw.

    On the issue of the big bang, you will claim that because I cannot posit a specific set of physical conditions prior to the big bang then I we must instead be getting something from nothing. This is based on your assumption that the universe is finite. I will note that this is indeed assumption. I will also note that our scientific understanding of space and time is almost certainly incomplete. For example, quantum mechanics and relativity – the two major physical theories of our era – are currently irreconcilable. There is certainly a paradigm shift to be had at some point in the future – one that will almost certainly result in changes in our view of the origins of the universe.

    I might surprise you with one move. I will suggest that we have indeed observed something very close to speciation as a result of of selection within recorded history. Artificial selection by animal breeders uses the same mechanism as natural selection – the only difference is that the selection is intentional rather than accidental. Artificial selection has produced breeds that are in fact so different they would probably be considered separate species if they occurred in nature. Teacup Poodles and Great Danes are both considered to be breeds of dog – but in fact they cannot interbreed. As you know, interbreeding is a component of most definitions of species. True speciation? Of course not – but something pretty damned close.

    — hippieprof

    I might surprise you by claiming that we indeed have seen evidence

  206. “I’d like to see your membership card to the Glenn Beck and Tea Party cult when Bush was spending massively. ”

    I would say I’m 4 times more pissed off now then during Bush presidency. 4 times.

  207. “I would say I’m 4 times more pissed off now then during Bush presidency. 4 times.”

    More than 4 times when you add the the other crap he is doing to destroy this nation.

  208. CBP, you just don’t want to have your new nickname be pervert.

    and yeah, it’s false outrage, so what?! lol fine, I won’t call CBP a pervert anymore. I’ll concede that, but his jokes are pretty tasteless, not just the vibrator one but the other ones too.
    I’m condescended to here all the time, the least you can spare me is the sexist jokes.

    And why is there even a convo about evolution here. No one ever wins the argument it’s like arguing facts against people who believe in unicorns. I’m agnostic too, written 2 papers on evolution/America society I’m almost sure this debate won’t end unless Jesus appears or we see an species population morph into something else right in front of our eyes. But, maybe R should find it fun to write about republicans attack on science. Nothing new but I believe he did ask us at one point what he should write about.

  209. HippieProf,

    To show you how differently we think, I would say only this so we don’t bore the room with technicalities (I am currently studying for a Biochem exam that I consider more genetics). This is not exactly what I had planned to do on my break.

    You will open with a statistical model showing that, given certain assumptions about mutation rate and selection factors, that there simply hasn’t been enough time for present day species diversity to have evolved via natural selection. I will counter by questioning some of the assumptions of your model, and will show that with different assumptions evolution is in fact quite possible. I will also note that your model does not take into account certain factors – such as speciation produced by microevolution in reproductively isolated populations.

    I’ll take a one or two of these at a time. It might surprise you, but I wouldn’t even need to argue with statistical models – simple exponential mathematics and a general statement of thermodynamics would be my first argument and your first constraint.

    First, the universe without something I’ll call “work” (2nd law, Thermodynamics) is in a constant state of randomness – some of you know this, but for anyone interested, I’ll explain. Anything left to its own accord and without work, reverts to its most random nature. The textbook example goes something like this. You’ve got ten molecules of a particular gas and two glass vials separated by valve. All ten molecules reside in vial A. Once the valve is opened, the molecules disperse. The chance at any one time you will find all ten molecules residing at one vial at the same time are now small because of the random nature of the universe. It would take something called “work” to move the molecules back to their original state.

    My question to

  210. Sorry, I just hit something that kicked me right off the internet…

    My point is that the universe left to itself does not work in an ordered state; so an evolutionist according to the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is left to explain a long series of random mutations that have given us the phenotypes we currently see in species. But lets assume for a moment that by chance the cell did evolve in a random universe, without work – in otherwords, all the gas molecules (zillions of them) somehow made it to the same ordered vial by random chance.

    Here’s the rub. Virtually all mutations of a genome are deleterious. So the math of random mutations producing an “evolving” adaptable species without some unforseen force/work are again against the evolutionist. In fact, it is for all intents and purposes, mathematically impossible.

    And if Hippieprof can overcome this obstacle, I still have thousands or roadblocks standing in the way. This is but the high level stuff so far.

    But Hippie, you missed my point about the finite universe. Even if you could determine a physical construct so grand in purpose to bring forth our universe, it still will not explain why the universe finite with a beginning, or how the physical construct itself created. Your null hypothetical again points to something beyond the natural.

  211. One other comment Hippie…

    Artificial selection has produced breeds that are in fact so different they would probably be considered separate species if they occurred in nature. Teacup Poodles and Great Danes are both considered to be breeds of dog – but in fact they cannot interbreed. As you know, interbreeding is a component of most definitions of species. True speciation? Of course not – but something pretty damned close.

    I believe I could make a good argument that this is not speciation, but an argument against your theory eventually leading to an evolutionary roadblock…

    By the way, why is genetically when we have “tinkered” with breeding, the mutations more of than not have not led to a more robust species, but have in fact again been deleterious in nature? I give you the example of thoroughbred horses, with legs so fragile they often shatter on the track?

  212. Ghouls Preparing To Dance on Sparkman’s Grave
    posted at 3:00 pm on September 27, 2009 by Legal Insurrection

    We do not know how or why Bill Sparkman — a part time Census worker — was killed in Kentucky. Let me repeat this, since this is the internet and lower case lettering does not carry any meaning: WE DO NOT KNOW HOW OR WHY BILL SPARKMAN WAS KILLED.

    There are speculative reports, sometimes conflicting. But that has not stopped the left-wing internet ghouls from seeking to exploit Sparkman’s death for political purposes, turning his part-time Census status into the reason for his killing and creating a cause célèbre out of thin air.

    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/09/27/ghouls-preparing-to-dance-on-sparkmans-grave/

    They mean you too Dodger.

  213. Good Work Libs!… 66% of Country Angry With Dem Policies– 36% Very Angry
    Nice work libs.
    66% of the country is angry with the radical far left agenda Pelosi and Obama are pushing on America. 36% are very angry.
    Rasmussen reported:

    And, get this… 59% say the current level of anger is worse than it was during the Bush years!

    Few nations are as generous with their time and money as the United States, but right now Americans are a suspicious bunch.

    Sixty-six percent (66%) of voters nationwide say they’re at least somewhat angry about the current policies of the federal government. Thirty-six percent (36%) are Very Angry.

    Despite the high level of political anger last year that helped fuel President Obama’s election, 59% say the current level of political anger in the country is higher than it was when George W. Bush was president.

    http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/09/good-work-libs-66-of-country-angry-with.html

    Thuggy the uniter. LMAO

  214. Densico,

    And a whopping 30 libs in attendance – about the same size as Rachel Maddow’s viewing audience. Congratulations on your astonishing find.

    And I’ll add a comment to the comment contained within your link:

    Putting a lib in charge of a limited government for the people makes about as much sense as putting a heroin addict in charge of the Drug Enforcement Administration.

  215. BiW, I see that the “Constitution as Christian doc” topic is gaining steam over at your blog. That is fine if you want to keep the discussion there. If not, let me know and I will create a “stub” post on this blog and copy over the comments thus far. I do think it is a topic more of my readers would like to weigh in on but I don’t want to get into a push-and-pull with your blog. Let me know what you’re comfortable with.

    I didn’t want you to think I was bogarting your traffic, but to even type anything on that thread was taking forever, and I wasn’t using that blog for anything, let alone the purpose I had intended, so it just seemed a good way to carry on the conversation in a dedicated thread that wasn’t slowed to a crawl by its length.

  216. “Putting a lib in charge of a limited government for the people makes about as much sense as putting a heroin addict in charge of the Drug Enforcement Administration.”

    How about a tax cheat in charge of the IRS?

  217. “And a whopping 30 libs in attendance – about the same size as Rachel Maddow’s viewing audience. Congratulations on your astonishing find.”

    Yeah, so what? theres events where 30 rethuglicans stand on the side of the road and hold socialist signs. And knowing St. Clair shores, 30 people is about all that gives a $hit to show up and rally lol

  218. “In fact, it is for all intents and purposes, mathematically impossible.”

    Tex your 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is interesting. I get what your saying but I have a couple questions.

    1. It seems in your 2nd paragraph your allowing for the chance that evolution exists through God’s work. Did I understand you right?

    2. You said that it’s mathematically impossible for having a random dice roll result in all the molecules to be perfectly in place, particularly all the molecules being in such a place that they evolve in response to the changing environment. Did I get this right? If I did, and the universe is infinite, wouldn’t this indeed be mathematically possible?

    Again, I may be a complete moron right now in understanding you guys.

    And what the hell does deleterious mean?

    Lastly, breeding has in fact improved species in terms of the ends we want them for. While other, unforeseen nasties crept in there (bad hips in German Shepards) a German Shepard is still a bad ass cop dog. Same with war Elephants and monster ears of corn. So, I guess I disagree with that claim.

    Personally, I see such design in humans that I can’t wrap my mind around our existence being totally random.

    But, I’m so ignorant of all this, I can barely hold a conversation.

  219. D.R.

    How’s the family?

    Deleterious means “bad” – as it a negative outcome. It’s a fancy word used in genetics that basically says mutations almost always have negative outcomes – not positive ones.

    Most mutations lead to unusable proteins; the basis of molecular biology and what is used to differentiate tissues, enzymes, pathways for cellular respiration, etc…

    So by simply applying a little logic, extrapolating out random mutations over and over and over again, mathematically you run into real problems by simply saying random chance is the mechanism, because sooner or later your mathematical chances of having a dysfunctional unit are astronomical.

    Now Hippie does have a point with respect to microevolution – we see it every day in our own bodies. But these mutations are not random – they have very specific, very direct signaling explaining the what, the how, the where to change. Your own immune system is based on this fact.

    ————————————————–

    My next question to Hippie, and I’m trying to keep these simple for the audience in case they don’t have the background is:

    If random mutations were beneficial, why has DNA “evolved” to create its own proofreading mechanism in order to replicate as exact? Wouldn’t your theory expect, in fact want just the opposite? That replication would actually “encourage” mutation increasing the chances of adaptation?

  220. Former NBC Player John Salley: Majority of White America Hates Obama

    “Why are so many people who now hate him after just 266 days they loved him?”

    So stupid on so many levels

  221. After three jihad terror plots uncovered in the U.S., Obama frees three more Gitmo detainees

    New York/Denver. Dallas. Springfield, Illinois. Three plots, three released detainees. No, I am not saying there is some connection, some jihad terror plot-for-detainees exchange program. I am saying that the plots show that there is a manifest jihad threat, and that Obama continues to act as if there isn’t. Release more Gitmo detainees — what could possibly go wrong? Another Which-Side-Is-Obama-On Alert:

    “Obama Administration Frees Three More Gitmo Detainees,” by Jake Tapper for ABC News, September 26 (thanks to Pamela):

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/09/illinois-jihadist-was-targeting-republican-congressmans-office.html

    And Dodger gets worked up over a poor guy that was murdered with no clear evidence. You going to have a post about some real dangers to the country Dodger?3 different plots, all muslims and targeting government buildings and at least one guy was white. What more do you need Dodger?

  222. Colin Powell very much enjoyed working with George Bush and said so on numerous occasions. That is, until it became apparent to Colin that he wasn’t going to get his way like he was used to getting. I suspect he was told to hit the door when the going got tough and Colin started whining about his own popularity.

    Hippieprof, would your really expect to hear anything different from a politician like Gates? And don’t fool yourself – this is exactly what these guys are. They know fully well which side their bread is buttered.

    As for Densico’s meaningless trivia, I can still remember her telling me how much Obama would change the world for the better after Bush ruined it all. I’m still waiting. First, our own allies let a thug go who killed 200 American’s aka Lockerbie.

    Then this week, Obama showed his true colors at his favorite stage the U.N., only to be overshadowed by his complimentary friends Mahmoud, Gaddafi, and Chavez. Fidel gave his regards from abroad.

    Yes, Obama does hang with a great group of leaders Densico – Hope & Change you can believe in sweetie. Unfortunately, these facts continue to escape our “Little Miss Can’t be Wrong” college student telling us how the world works. 😉

  223. Oh wow, you all pounced on that one! Must be bored or something. I knew I’d get the “lols'” especially for using “convo”

    But still, you all know Bush knew little about foreign policy cause he relied on Cheney to make all the decisions. Obama is holding a tough stance against these leaders and I don’t see you giving kudos for coming out against this second nuke plant in Iran. He was at center stage and didn’t just sit back and take a no comment stance on the situation.

    Do you seriously think if McCain was Pres. that our international problems would be better? I think Obama is using smart diplomacy, because as we’ve seen, this cowboy diplomacy on the rethuglican side has only made situations worse. Now Obama has to rebuild our image around the world.

    Republicans made the mess so don’t get mad that we’re deciding to clean it up.

  224. KABUL/WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The commander of U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan has submitted a request for more troops, a spokesman said Saturday, but the Pentagon will hold it while President Barack Obama decides what strategy to pursue.

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/09/leadership-in-action-alert-mcchrystal-submits-formal-request-for-more-troops-but-obama-wont-accept-i.html

    Thuggy holding an intellectual convo on foreign policy and military matters.

    Ummmm errrrr ahhhh let me be perfectly clear, Im voting present now uhhhh let me eat my waffle.

  225. “Obama is holding a tough stance against these leaders and I don’t see you giving kudos for coming out against this second nuke plant in Iran.”

    What for wanting to talk some more as the iranans jerk him around til they get a nuke? Worked out so well with NK dumbass.

  226. I know folks who have personally briefed both Bush and Obama- trust me, Bush knew exactly what he was talking about and Obama is still learning.

    Did it ever cross you mind that Gates is employing a little job security? God knows, Obama doesn’t take the blame for anything, so its only a matter of time before he scapegoats someone, namely Gates on Afghanistan (even though he is going along with Obama’s strategy and Obama’s commander picks!).

  227. “Obama is holding a tough stance against these leaders and I don’t see you giving kudos for coming out against this second nuke plant in Iran.”

    You mean the plant we’ve known about for two years? Wasn’t it Bush in office then? Hmmmm, think maybe he knew what he was talking about?

    Here’s the story, Obama’s ‘let’s talk’ strategy is quickly being overcome by reality. Imagine that, Obama’s in conflict with reality…

  228. Tex – first – don’t work on this rather than studying. First things first. I myself have two exams to give in the morning, and I haven’t written either yet – so my comments tonight will be relatively brief.

    I am going to jump around a bit and give the answers in a different order from the way you posed the questions.

    First – regarding the second law of thermodynamics. Note that the law applies to an isolated system with no external energy entering the system. Entropy will indeed increase in such an isolated system (and will likewise increase over time when we consider the universe as a whole). However, the second law does not apply to a non-isolated system. The earth in fact is a non-isolated system because it receives constant energy from the sun. Hence, the second law does not apply in this local system. Entropy need not be increasing within this system.

    Note also that random interactions can indeed produce an increase in complexity, and can do so indefinitely in a non-isolated system. A water molecule is more complex than a hydrogen atom and and an oxygen atom alone – but bring those two atoms together (plus a bit of energy) and you will indeed produce water. This isn’t some wild speculation about what could occur – this is something we know occurs.

    I will now jump to your response to DR. You said:

    So by simply applying a little logic, extrapolating out random mutations over and over and over again, mathematically you run into real problems by simply saying random chance is the mechanism, because sooner or later your mathematical chances of having a dysfunctional unit are astronomical.

    It seems like you are ignoring the negative selective factors that would accompany a deleterious gene. Imagine a species which will on average have five offspring per generation. Imagine that all else held equal the offspring would have a 20 percent chance of reaching reproductive age. Now imagine a random mutation which reduced that survival chance to 18 percent. It might take a few generations, but the random mutation would be weeded out of the gene pool fairly quickly. You wouldn’t have that astronomical chance of a dysfunctional organism because selection would weed out the deleterious genes.

    You can say the same thing about a positive mutation that perhaps increased survival probability to 22 percent. Run the simulations yourself – that gene would eventually come to predominate (though in some simulations even that positive gene would not go anywhere because its carrier would die for entirely unrelated reasons).

    This answer seems a little too easy – so am I missig something you are saying?

    Jumping forward a bit…..

    My next question to Hippie… if random mutations were beneficial, why has DNA “evolved” to create its own proofreading mechanism in order to replicate as exact? Wouldn’t your theory expect, in fact want just the opposite? That replication would actually “encourage” mutation increasing the chances of adaptation?

    No – I don’t think so. I think you are letting a group-selection argument slip in here. Remember, selection operates on the level of the individual, not on the level of the group as a whole.

    You already said yourself that the majority of mutations are deleterious. As an individual, what is your best bet? Any single mutation is likely to do you harm – so you are better to protect yourself against those than to leave yourself unprotected on the off chance you might get lucky.

    About selective breeding you note:

    By the way, why is genetically when we have “tinkered” with breeding, the mutations more of than not have not led to a more robust species, but have in fact again been deleterious in nature? I give you the example of thoroughbred horses, with legs so fragile they often shatter on the track?

    This is like asking why race cars blow engines more often than the family truckster. When you make adjustments to produce more speed you necessarily weaken other components of the system. In addition, the added speed produces more wear-and-tear on the system.

    I saved the best (or at least weirdest) for last:

    But Hippie, you missed my point about the finite universe. Even if you could determine a physical construct so grand in purpose to bring forth our universe, it still will not explain why the universe finite with a beginning, or how the physical construct itself created. Your null hypothetical again points to something beyond the natural.

    My answer was unfortunately pretty obtuse – I didn’t state it very well. I was trying to attack your assumption that the universe had a finite beginning. According to modern physics it in fact does not have a finite beginning – but that doesn’t even quite get it right. In relatively physics space and time are defined in a physical way and are in fact part of the universe. Thus to say “before the universe” is a nonsensical statement because space and time are only defined within the universe itself.

    What does that mean? Hell if I know – relativity is one big mindfuck. It does mean, however, that I do not need to propose some supernatural origin for the universe because there is in fact no origin at all.

    OK – gotta settle down and prepare for tomorrow’s torture sessions… I mean exams….

    — hippieprof

  229. Hey Gorilla,

    I feel we are really good hands! After all, we’ve got Joe Biden as the foreign policy expert!!! 😈 *

    I can hardly wait for Densico to give us the scoop on how Jolting Joe, the man who spelled jobs with three letters and didn’t know the history of the Great Depression (didn’t even have the correct President), will save us.

    Jolting Joe is the only thing making Obama look good to me right now…

    * – Sarc off

  230. So – guys – even at the height of the Bush years I had good things to say about him. Certainly there has to be something good you can say about Obama? Hold the sarcasm please

    — hp

  231. First – regarding the second law of thermodynamics. Note that the law applies to an isolated system with no external energy entering the system. Entropy will indeed increase in such an isolated system (and will likewise increase over time when we consider the universe as a whole). However, the second law does not apply to a non-isolated system. The earth in fact is a non-isolated system because it receives constant energy from the sun. Hence, the second law does not apply in this local system. Entropy need not be increasing within this system.

    Oh,I do wish I had to time to argue. Most of your arguments so far I have heard before – and always from the professors on college campus type…

    I will have to disagree with you here about the 2nd law of thermodyamics, mainly because I disagree about your claim as our own solar system a non-isolated system. However, to spare our counterparts further, I will approach our debate with something a little less esoteric. We could debate with some difficulty in discussing spontaneous reactions and free energy, as I feel confident that the universe is the universe and our solar system an infinitesimal part of it, including the sun, bound by the same constraints and same rules. But I digress…we will leave this one for a time. I should have simply stuck with something easier to observe and measure like biology. Mea culpa.

    This quote is gibberish…

    No – I don’t think so. I think you are letting a group-selection argument slip in here. Remember, selection operates on the level of the individual, not on the level of the group as a whole.

    Instead of textbook argument, I’ll use a more generic statement. What do random mutations lead to far more often than not, your fun fact of “It seems like you are ignoring the negative selective factors that would accompany a deleterious gene” aside I’ll give you a hint. We see it every day but apparently your negative selective factors are losing the battle.

    The answer?

    It’s called oncogenesis, or more commonly referred to as cancer. In fact, it is the random mutations of our DNA that lead to most forms of cancer and the exact reason that tumor suppression genes required, proofreading mechanism used in DNA, etc… You didn’t answer my question, which is far more difficult to disprove than some esoteric disagreement over a proposed set of natural laws from a textbook. We have hard empirical proof that random mutations deleterious in nature and. I again go back to the simple mathematics of natural selection.

    So here are some other “easy” questions to poke holes in:

    (1) Why is cardiac muscle frozen in G0? Or to say it another way, since cardiac disease still the number one killer of mankind, why hasn’t evolution created a solution to a lack of mitosis for cardiac muscle? Wouldn’t it follow that our most primitive instinct would be first survival and that its first priority continued existence?

    (2) Why are xenografts from porcine far more successful than attempted xenografts from simians? Since MHC the most conserved gene in the body, wouldn’t it make more sense that our closest relatives would provide a lower rejection rate of foreign tissue due to MHC incompatibility?

    (3) Here’s one stolen from the D.I., but one I’ve never seen answered and it concerns their argument of irreducible complexity. They have a point. In order for a cell to function, all organelles must work in a simultaneous fashion and the existence must be in place simultaneously. Remove any one component, and the cell dies. Exactly how did the first cell evolve to manage and accomplish this feat in a simultaneous nature?

    (4) And finally this one, which you didn’t address. Where are the fossils of “modern” man immediately before the last ice age approximately 13,000 years ago? How is that we keep finding fossils millions of years old of our ‘ancestors’, but we can’t seem to find any of our far more modern relatives?

    I’ll get to the tougher ones as we go along…

    Have a good evening professor.

    ~Tex

  232. Hippie,

    Certainly there has to be something good you can say about Obama? Hold the sarcasm please

    He’s smarter than Joe Biden!!! 🙂

  233. I’d like to see your membership card to the Glenn Beck and Tea Party cult when Bush was spending massively. Until then, you’re a hypocrite.

    On this I have to agree 100% with Sensico and it’s the point I’ve been making repeatedly and gotten few satisfactory answers. Why with a Dem administration in place why did everyone suddenly figure out we’re spending too much and be driven to join the Tea Parties? I’m sorry, the timing looks real suspect.

  234. and I will note that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

    What a fantastic quote! I love it, HP.

    I also got a major kick out of how HP argued both sides. Well done.

    (Yes, I’m commenting as I read these so I have not yet seen Tex’s response, if any.)

    P.S. Hey … if you guys wanna pool together and pay me about 80K a year before taxes, I’ll gladly spend all day commenting, researching and writing for this blog. 🙂 (Just another attempt to help Sensico understand why I’m not here as much as she might like.)

  235. She isnt called Densico for nothing.

    This reminds me of the comment a while back, “He isn’t called Dodger for nothing.”

    Again, Elric fails to remember he is the only one who calls her Densico. Nothing like a healthy ego to make you believe that the dumbass nicknames you give people have become universal.

  236. so an evolutionist according to the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is left to explain a long series of random mutations that have given us the phenotypes we currently see in species.

    I’m sorry if HP already addressed this … again I’m hitting these comments as I see them.

    Isn’t part of Darwinian theory the notion of “survival of the fittest”? Hence the mutations are not random. The mutations are designed to adapt the species to its environment. What am I missing here?

  237. “Well Elric, as I admitted in an earlier comment my only solace in this thread is that I wasn’t the only “chicken little” out there.”

    Its good not to be the only ghoul.

  238. Good Work Libs!… 66% of Country Angry With Dem Policies– 36% Very Angry

    Mmmm, Elric, might want to watch that word “angry”. You know that anger often leads to violence. 😉 (Wouldn’t “disappointed” be so much better an adjective?)

  239. Putting a lib in charge of a limited government for the people makes about as much sense as putting a heroin addict in charge of the Drug Enforcement Administration.

    LOL … funny, true, but not so bad perhaps.

  240. “Mmmm, Elric, might want to watch that word “angry”. You know that anger often leads to violence.”

    Like with muslims trying to blow up Government buildings? That kind of violence?

  241. Deleterious means “bad” – as it a negative outcome. It’s a fancy word used in genetics

    Sorry Tex, I’ll grant you dominion over medical stuff and religion but on English you’ll need to cede the floor to me (A- in Expository Writing from Hawwwvard, if you need a qualification.)

    You were right in your first statement and then you blew it in your second statement, Deleterious is in no way specific to genetics. It simply means, “causing harm” or as you more simply put it, “bad”. It can be used in genetics, politics, botany, and blow jobs. 🙂

  242. The mutations are designed to adapt the species to its environment. What am I missing here?

    I thought mutations were random without any form of direction? Just a series of mutations that through random chance happen to adapt? Unfortunately, that is starting to sound an a lot like intelligence to adapt. Do I dare say that to an unbeliever?

    Kind of like do I dare say just because you don’t believe in a hell doesn’t mean you’re not going there? Kind of like “and I will note that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence” argument? 🙂

    That is the gist of the argument, is it not? Now Rutherford maybe you will admit that our entire mindset is shaped by who we believe in charge? God or man?

    I hope I have at least proven that argument to you.

    ~ Tex

  243. I am not going to get into a link-posting battle with Elric – but I wonder if in the avalanche of criticism he noticed that Robert Gates …

    You know, I watched Bob Gates on TV today and I must say I greatly admire the man. I don’t think he has a political bone in his body, proven by the fact that he did the dirty job of Defense Sec for Bush and then in the very definition of bipartisanship, stuck around to do it for Obama. I think this man is probably one of the most admirable folks in Obama’s cabinet.

  244. ‘I think this man is probably one of the most admirable folks in Obama’s cabinet.”

    Well he hasnt cheated on his taxes and isnt a racist. You do set the bar low.

  245. Rutherford,

    I know it is your purpose here to prove your “intellectual” superiority, but no where did I say that deleterious exclusively used for genetic description. I was referring to the explanation pertaining to the context I was using and nothing more…

    Contrary to when THE BOMBA’s ugly wife asked, “and how was my first blow job???”, followed by BOMBA’s answer (and I wouldn’t doubt it atempting to justifying his hidden Hawwvard credentials) deleterious Dear. Not nearly as advantageous as the blowjob I received from my boyfriend in Chicago while sniffing a line.”

  246. That is the gist of the argument, is it not? Now Rutherford maybe you will admit that our entire mindset is shaped by who we believe in charge? God or man?

    Tex, on that we agree 100%. But then again, perhaps God is quantum physics? Perhaps God is that scientific explanation that we cannot get our brains around? I have no problem with God on that level. As I said in an earlier comment, if folks were content to use God to explain the unexplainable, I’d find that perfectly fine. It’s when God starts making moral “judgments” that things start to go off the rails IMHO.

  247. You going to do that post on muslms trying to blow up government buildings Dodger? Lots more evidence of that than Tea Partiers getting violent. If not, why not Dodger?

  248. Bush most likely couldn’t hold an intellectual convo on foreign policy and military matters.

    I am reconsidering Bush from an intellectual POV more and more. Don’t get me wrong … I don’t think the dude was a rocket scientist. But I wonder if he may have had more political intuition than we give him credit for. He operated on “gut” and “gut” told him the surge was a good idea. The surge was a good idea. I’ve always maintained it wasn’t the only factor to improve Iraq but it was a big one.

    The further we get into the Obama administration, the more I think there needs to be a happy balance between the “gut decider” and the man who listens to everybody and ruminates ad nauseum before making a decision. Don’t know … really just thinking aloud.

  249. The commander of U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan has submitted a request for more troops

    McChrystal was featured on “60 Minutes” tonight and lo and behold all the stuff Elric blames Obama for is the brainchild of McChrystal. Biggest case in point: Stan is tired of killing truckloads of Afghan civilians to get at the insurgents. He has demanded that the troops change their attitude and approach their job as protecting the citizenry. He’s a very different military animal. I like him.

  250. “McChrystal was featured on “60 Minutes” tonight and lo and behold all the stuff Elric blames Obama for is the brainchild of McChrystal.”

    Thuggy’s signs off on it, doesnt he?

  251. “Certainly there has to be something good you can say about Obama?”

    Nope

    And I can say without any sarcasm that Elric’s response to this question clearly illustrates his total void of intellect. It’s embarrassing.

  252. “And I can say without any sarcasm that Elric’s response to this question clearly illustrates his total void of intellect. It’s embarrassing.”

    As embarrassing as giving Thuggy a free pass on everything and playing the race card because ppl dont like his policies?

  253. BTW, Tex, while I don’t agree with you regarding your complete dismissal of evolution, I have to give you credit for holding your own in this discussion with HP. You’re really pulling out all the stops. I’m not even sure I saw half the crap you’re saying while I was in college … I don’t know whether you’re pulling it up from an amazing memory or it’s your current studies.

    Anyway, kudos. As HP said at the start, your argument will end in a draw but it’s fun to watch the back and forth.

  254. So – guys – even at the height of the Bush years I had good things to say about him. Certainly there has to be something good you can say about Obama? Hold the sarcasm please” – hp

    Who was being sarcastic?

    Something nice eh, how about this- he does real good speeches. Of course, take the teleprompter away and he visibly struggles a bit- UNLESS- he is talking to his crowd (i.e. unions, leftists, etc) and it flows naturally. Maybe that is what we should be concerned with, that he has been caught- repeatedly- saying one thing to one group, and something totally different to another. A few years ago, we would have called this a flip-flop, but I just call it disingenuous.

    You know, I watched Bob Gates on TV today and I must say I greatly admire the man. I don’t think he has a political bone in his body, proven by the fact that he did the dirty job of Defense Sec for Bush and then in the very definition of bipartisanship, stuck around to do it for Obama. I think this man is probably one of the most admirable folks in Obama’s cabinet. ” — R

    Why is SECDEF dirty under Bush and not ‘dirty’ under Obama? Especially considering that Obama is doing the EXACT same things Bush was doing? I work in the Pentagon, there isn’t a whole lot of ‘change’ going on around here…

    How much begging and pleading do you think Obama did to keep Gates? Think about it, he doesn’t have any friends who actually know how to manage a war, so it would not have been easy to find someone to fill the spot successfully. He needs Gates more than Gates needs him.

    Now, I’ll agree that Gates isn’t very political, but he certainly isn’t apolitical. I think Gates believes in the mission and wants to see it through, so he’ll play lip service to a degree to ensure he can do that.

    I am reconsidering Bush from an intellectual POV more and more. Don’t get me wrong … I don’t think the dude was a rocket scientist. But I wonder if he may have had more political intuition than we give him credit for. He operated on “gut” and “gut” told him the surge was a good idea. The surge was a good idea. I’ve always maintained it wasn’t the only factor to improve Iraq but it was a big one. ” – R

    You should. I always get a kick out of this. Many times I’ve had liberals go on about Obama’s Harvard education and how smart he is. OK, Bush went to Yale and has an MBA from Harvard- why was Bush ‘dumb’ but Obama is ‘smart’ when they both have ivy league educations? Just curious about this double standard.

    As to the surge, Obama still hasn’t fully admitted how successful the surge has been. He said point blank, it had failed, when it was the exact opposite. He has never been held accountable for that, but he oh so smart…

    The further we get into the Obama administration, the more I think there needs to be a happy balance between the “gut decider” and the man who listens to everybody and ruminates ad nauseum before making a decision. Don’t know … really just thinking aloud. ” — R

    This happens in every administration.

    “McChrystal was featured on “60 Minutes” tonight and lo and behold all the stuff Elric blames Obama for is the brainchild of McChrystal. Biggest case in point: Stan is tired of killing truckloads of Afghan civilians to get at the insurgents. He has demanded that the troops change their attitude and approach their job as protecting the citizenry. He’s a very different military animal. I like him.” — R

    There is some circular reporting here. McCrystal worked for Petreaus, and a lot of what he is saying is what Petreaus was saying for Iraq. Petreaus’s focus in Iraq was population security, which puts Coalition Forces at risk, but puts an emphasis on protecting and imbedding with the people.

    As for the truck load comment- we don’t sit there going, ‘hey, a truck load of civilians- FIRE!!!’ You have to understand that terrorists and insurgents often times surround themselves with civilians, especially women and children. Fox was playing a video from Afghanistan that was a perfect example of this. Insurgents digging in the road, laying an IED. The Apache was ready to light them up, when a kid carrying something shows up. They wave off waiting for the kid to walk away- EVEN THOUGH HE LIKELY CARRYED A PART OF THE IED TO THE SCENE- so they could engage. As it turns out, there is a God, and the bad guys self-detonated the IED, killing all of them (not sure if the kid had walked away or not). We dealt with this stuff all the time in Iraq. In fact, when Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was killed, one of his wives and a child was killed as well. The decision to execute the operation knowing civilians would be killed took a very senior decision maker- that is how serious we take civilian casualties, so please don’t be so flippant in comments on this.

    Until you’ve been in an environment where every person, every vehicle, every house, every bump in the road, every etc, etc, etc could kill you, I’d probably be careful in assessing the attitude of the soldiers on the ground.

  255. “Realizing the power to tax is the power to destroy, and that the power to take a certain amount of property or of income is only another way of saying that for a proportion of his time a citizen must work for the government, the authority to impose a tax upon the people must be carefully guarded. It condemns the citizen to servitude.” — Calvin Coolidge

    If only our current cadre of political idiots would take this to heart…

  256. “R”,

    Note that I don’t dismiss evolution in its entirety. I simply don’t see the proof natural selection as it is referred to as a theory. We may not be able to fully understand gravity. But we can measure it and observe it. To me, to call evolution a theory is bad science and forgets the first point of good methodology – a fair amount of rational skepticism. However, to be a skeptic concerning this subject, the alternative points directly to a Creator and many people are not comfortable with that. I suspect the Hippie may be one, albeit a polite one. God may have indeed chosen to use the method. But He certainly did a good job of keeping us minions guessing how He went about it.

    Since I’ve discussed this subject ad nauseum, it’s all in my little head. I could ask questions for days if the need arose. It used to be kind of fun – then when I finally decided the debate had little to do with science, it almost became offensive. So far, our professor has been someone unique in that he has not gotten emotional nor offended. If everybody took his approach, rational people might get somewhere and let bygones be bygones. But invariably, what happens is when challenged, evolutionary scientists will go off the deep end and resort to name calling, patronizing their detractors. On that particular “micro debate” concerning the discussion of the subject, I couldn’t disagree with Hippie more. I find the evolution question to be as politically loaded as the abortion question.

    Years ago, it became apparent to me that if you believed in a Creator, you saw virtually everything differently than the secular world. Like I said, it is what separates the way we derive our conclusions and always will, which in itself provides more proof to me that my own set of beliefs true. Jesus said Himself, “It will seem like foolishness to the world.” And indeed, it does.

    But since I like the Hippieprof and he has been polite on the blog (much more so that yours truly), the least I can do is play the game for a time and follow his own good lead.

    Besides, this blog has provided some much needed breaks from an overwhelming curriculum – a sanctuary, if you will. You may have indeed been right Rutherford. As I sit in class with young National Merit Finalists, valedictorians, magna cum laude’s, and the like – with PHDs trying to teach us that they are smarter (and in the subjects they teach, they are), I am wearing down at 50.

    Something else I have discovered that I have suspected for a time. While many of these students far more gifted than I am at the academics, you can be a great student and still be a complete idiot. Most of you on this blog are far more interesting than many of these patronizing chumps. They have prepared their whole life to be in med school, not recognizing there is far more to life and to intellect than the pursuit of a career.

    What is so ironic is that you’re speaking to someone whose own teenage life was so dysfunctional that the high school counselor told my mother when I was 17 that I was not college material. Much of this adventure was done to prove something to myself. I would love to get that woman as a patient one day if she is still alive and remind her of her statement. However, when I did accepted to medical school, I did lose a bit of interest. Medicine is not what it is cracked up to be.

    I was naive in believing that this particular set of people would prove to be more altruistic than what I had experienced in corporate America. They aren’t… 😉

  257. OK – exams are written. My students are going to hate me…. and it is all your fault!

    😉

    …now back to the discussion with Tex….

    I will have to disagree with you here about the 2nd law of thermodyamics, mainly because I disagree about your claim as our own solar system a non-isolated system.

    Tex – I am not going to let you off the hook here because, to be blunt, you are just wrong about the physics.

    First, I didn’t claim our solar system was a non-isolated system. It probably is pretty close to an isolated system. Although there is some background cosmic radiation coming in, it is negligible. However, the earth itself is very much not an isolated system because of the constant input of energy from the sun. It is safe to say that the second law applies (mostly) to the solar system because it is close to isolated – yet does not apply to the earth because it is not isolated.

    Note that the second law obviously just doesn’t work when energy is coming into the system. According to the law equilibrium occurs when energy is evenly distributed in the system – but a constant flow of energy into the system will continuously disrupt movement toward equilibrium.

    I have seen arguments similar to yours from the Intelligent Design (ID) folks. This is one reason they are not taken seriously within mainstream scientific circles – they play fast and loose with some well established physics.

    Moving on….

    It’s called oncogenesis, or more commonly referred to as cancer. In fact, it is the random mutations of our DNA that lead to most forms of cancer and the exact reason that tumor suppression genes required, proofreading mechanism used in DNA, etc…

    This is obviously true – in fact I mentioned this in an earlier draft of my last post then edited it out. In fact, as I am sure you are aware accumulation of mutations and transcription errors within an individual is responsible for more than just cancer. It is probably why we age in general.

    But – I don’t see what this has to do with evolution. Evolution is about transmission of a mutation through a population and not about accumulation of mutations within an individual. Further, for a mutation to be passed through the population it must occur in the gametes – which means it has no real physiological role within its carrier. As I noted earlier, natural selection provides a mechanism by which deleterious mutations are removed from the gene pool and advantageous genes are accumulated in the population.

    On to the specific questions:

    (1) Or to say it another way, since cardiac disease still the number one killer of mankind, why hasn’t evolution created a solution to a lack of mitosis for cardiac muscle?

    Two things would argue that evolution will be very slow to “find” a solution here. First, cardiac disease tends to occur well after reproductive age. Remember that reproductive success is the key driving force for evolution – so if a disease strikes you years after you are finished reproducing it will have little impact on evolutionary fitness. Also note that cardiac disease is a relatively recent phenomenon and evolution probably hasn’t had time to operate. Much cardiac disease is related to diet and lifestyle issues. It is doubtful that our hunter-gatherer ancestors had a problem with high cholesterol.

    (2) Why are xenografts from porcine far more successful than attempted xenografts from simians?

    I don’t know – but I suspect that there is some protein in simian skin that isn’t found in pig skin? How does this violate evolution? Chimpanzees and humans shared 98 percent of their DNA – yet one merely has to look at a chimp alongside a human to note that the 2 percent makes a big difference.

    (3) Here’s one stolen from the D.I., but one I’ve never seen answered and it concerns their argument of irreducible complexity. They have a point. In order for a cell to function, all organelles must work in a simultaneous fashion and the existence must be in place simultaneously.

    The leading theories are that eukaryotes originally evolved as symbiotic communities of prokaryotes. These theories have been around for over 100 years, so I am not sure how the ID folks have missed them.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endosymbiotic_theory

    Sure – the theories are not perfect (they are, after all, theories) – but I don’t see the problem as insurmountable.

    (4) And finally this one, which you didn’t address. Where are the fossils of “modern” man immediately before the last ice age approximately 13,000 years ago?

    Sorry if I missed this one earlier. I did note that the conditions of fossilization are rare – very very very rare. This is a quote from a wiki article…

    “Fossilization is an exceptionally rare occurrence, because most components of formerly-living things tend to decompose relatively quickly following death. In order for an organism to be fossilized, the remains normally need to be covered by sediment as soon as possible. However there are exceptions to this, such as if an organism becomes frozen, desiccated, or comes to rest in an anoxic (oxygen-free) environment. ”

    What were the conditions like in the area in which these ancestors lived? Were they likely to produce fossils? Even if they were, we are rolling the dice if we are looking to find a specific fossil.

    The fossil record will never be able to prove or disprove evolutionary theory. It is too sparse and spotty to do so. You may call that a weakness in the theory – I call it a lack of some evidence that, by its nature, will be difficult to find.

    OK – time to go and give those exams….

    — hippieprof

  258. Tex just said: Something else I have discovered that I have suspected for a time. While many of these students far more gifted than I am at the academics, you can be a great student and still be a complete idiot. Most of you on this blog are far more interesting than many of these patronizing chumps. They have prepared their whole life to be in med school, not recognizing there is far more to life and to intellect than the pursuit of a career.

    I will entirely agree with you on that one. I actually prefer teaching “non-traditional” students such as yourself. First, non-traditional students are typically paying for their own educations – so they value it more. Second, those life experiences do mean something. Kids are pretty naive when they are 18 – and worse yet, they think they are sophisticated – which is a terrible combination.

    — hp

  259. Obama traveling to Copenhagen for Olympic bid

    By Mark Silva Washington Bureau

    7:44 AM EDT, September 28, 2009

    WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama, who initially planned to let First Lady Michelle Obama represent the United States in Copenhagen this week, when the International Olympic Committee chooses a site for the 2016 summer games, plans to travel there too.

    Promoters of Chicago’s bid for the 2016 games have pressed the president to take the United States’ case personally.

    The White House, which earlier had announce that an advance team was headed to Copenhagen to prepare for a possible presidential trip to Copenhagen, confirmed this morning that Obama will travel Thursday night. The IOC meets Friday.

    A senior administration official told the Tribune Washington Bureau this morning that Obama will travel to Copenhagen Thursday night, and return following the Friday meeting.

    Chicago is competing with Tokyo, Rio de Janeiro and Madrid for the 2016 summer games.

    http://www.fox17online.com/sports/sns-dc-obama-copenhagen,0,990090.story

    Payback for the Chicago thug machine.

    Bonus points for the large carbon footprint.

  260. So – Elric – are you actually claiming that having the Olympics here would be a bad thing?

    If Bush had made a similar push to bring the Olympics here would you have complained about it?

    Sometimes you indeed amaze me….

    — hp

  261. Amusing Chavez cartoon G.

    Question, when foreign leaders in American disfavor (e.g. Chavez, Qaddafi) praise Obama, is it sincere or are they trying to undermine the President by suggesting he is a buddy of thugs.

    (Can’t wait to hear Elric’s answer to this one.)

  262. Why is SECDEF dirty under Bush and not ‘dirty’ under Obama?

    Dammit. I had a feeling that would be misinterpreted. No, the job is a dirty job regardless of the President … and by dirty I don’t mean immoral or wrong headed or anything negative. I just mean defending the country is a nasty job that no one in his right mind would want to be stuck with … usually full of lesser-of-two-evil choices.

  263. “If Bush had made a similar push to bring the Olympics here would you have complained about it?”

    I think everyone would complain if Bush tried to push to have the Olympics in Crawford Texas.

    Why did you ignore the carbon footprint for it?

    “(Can’t wait to hear Elric’s answer to this one.)”

    When you answer on why Thuggy granted visas to islamists and thuugs but snubbed the president of Honduras.

  264. Okay Hippie,

    First the easy ones because you’re confusing the issues with baloney for the audience, and this is where I begin to get irritated with college professors.

    First, cardiac disease tends to occur well after reproductive age. Remember that reproductive success is the key driving force for evolution – so if a disease strikes you years after you are finished reproducing it will have little impact on evolutionary fitness. Also note that cardiac disease is a relatively recent phenomenon and evolution probably hasn’t had time to operate. Much cardiac disease is related to diet and lifestyle issues. It is doubtful that our hunter-gatherer ancestors had a problem with high cholesterol.

    Every bit of this is either wrong or baloney. Cardiac disease is not a recent phenomenon, and only 20% of cholesterol is attributable to diet. The problem with high cholesterol is with either cell receptor binding preventing intracellular uptake or an overproduction of the LDL, mainly from the liver which overwhelms the system. And cholesterol only but one of many problems attributable to heart disease, atherosclerosis the major killer. Add to the fact it is inherited problem from mom, pop or both so it is attributable to the gametes. In fact, if you’re familiar with familial hypercholesterolemia, it is a killer of the young. Cardiac disease occurs in every mammalian species. My own dog died of it last year. You rattled the cage but didn’t answer the question.

    but I suspect that there is some protein in simian skin that isn’t found in pig skin? How does this violate evolution? Chimpanzees and humans shared 98 percent of their DNA – yet one merely has to look at a chimp alongside a human to note that the 2 percent makes a big difference

    This was a real stinker. What does skin have to do with this? I’m talking any tissue rejection of any type. Why don’t we use simian heart valves? We’ve tried and failed miserably. Oh, you’ll hear because there are ethical considerations and the research just hasn’t been done? Really? From the same scientific community that would consider human cloning or destruction of embryos? Don’t have a problem administering trial drugs to rhesus monkeys. This is at the very basis of genetic evolution, as MHC being one of the most conserved genes through “evolution.” It would appear to me that your supposed closest ancestor, the branching point would have, would have a better success of tissue acceptance – but it doesn’t.

    “Fossilization is an exceptionally rare occurrence, because most components of formerly-living things tend to decompose relatively quickly following death. In order for an organism to be fossilized, the remains normally need to be covered by sediment as soon as possible. However there are exceptions to this, such as if an organism becomes frozen, desiccated, or comes to rest in an anoxic (oxygen-free) environment. ”

    Doesn’t seem to be a problem with wholly mammoths, does it? Or sabre tooth tigers? If you can find million year old fossils, then above that sediment, you should find someplace, somewhere proof, of our most common ancestors. By the way, did it ever occur to you that man seems to have a really “punctuated equilibrium”, a term used when the evolutionary model didn’t fit.

    The leading theories are that eukaryotes originally evolved as symbiotic communities of prokaryotes. These theories have been around for over 100 years, so I am not sure how the ID folks have missed them.

    Yeah, except a large part of the theory you are referring to, “The Endosymbiotic Theory”, doesn’t appear to hold much water. Perhaps they missed it because the theory something to shake your head at? Even then, your answer doesn’t address how prokaryotes managed his feat either, so we are back to square one concerning the question. Here’s a question for then if you accept these theories. How did mitochondria develop a membrane, instead of using a cellular wall for structure?

    I will be back to address the 2nd law. But I need a little more clarification before addressing your concern:

    First, you said this: The earth in fact is a non-isolated system because it receives constant energy from the sun. Hence, the second law does not apply in this local system. Entropy need not be increasing within this system.

    Then you said this:

    Here…first, I didn’t claim our solar system was a non-isolated system. It probably is pretty close to an isolated system.

    So let me see if I am understanding this. You say the earth is a non-isolated system, but our solar system is not? Am I understanding you correctly?

  265. He said point blank, it had failed,

    You wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, Gorilla?

    Obama said that if the goal of the surge was to leave Iraq with a functional government that could independently protect its people, then that goal was not achieved. He was right. There is no doubt that the surge succeeded in tamping down the violence and Obama acknowledged that.

    As for the truckload of civilians killed in Afghanistan, I apologize if my words seemed flippant but the number of civilian casualties has been an issue. I didn’t make that up. And yes, I’m well aware of innocents being used as human shields. That leaves you with the military decision to say we’re gonna swallow hard and take the losses to get to the enemy or we’re gonna find some other way. Sounds like McChrystal is looking for another way. That is all I was saying.

    Because of your mood today you inferred some assumption on my part about the “attitude” of the soldiers. I know you want to paint me as the military-hating lib, but I respect the job they have to do and I don’t believe they are savages eager to kill women and children.

  266. I was naive in believing that this particular set of people would prove to be more altruistic than what I had experienced in corporate America. They aren’t… 😉

    I think I know where you are coming from. Every profession runs from the extremes of “call to service” to just plain ambition and greed. Take my buddy DR, a part time roofer. There are roofers who just want to make a buck. There are roofers who love making stuff work. They take pride in the finished product.

    There are doctors who want money and prestige, There are many doctors who really want to heal people. I won’t lecture you Tex, but you have to figure out why you’re there and then block out all the static and just get the job done.

  267. Much of this adventure was done to prove something to myself. I would love to get that woman as a patient one day if she is still alive and remind her of her statement.

    I know this example might not resonate with you but when I was transitioning from the 5th grade in an all-disabled classroom to Jr high completely mainstreamed, I was bragging about how once I got to jr high I would go out to lunch on my own (not a trivial task for someone in my physical situation). The fifth grade teacher, let’s call her Miss Jones, told my mother “He really thinks he’s going out to lunch on his own next year.” And she laughed.

    Second week of jr high, I dragged my sorry ass to the restaurant across the street and lo and behold, Miss Jones just happened to be eating there. With a huge smile on my face I said “hello Miss Jones”. She just looked at me dumbfounded. Success truly is the best revenge.

    Editor’s note: sorry for the human interest story but Tex’s comment moved me to share.

  268. Hey Dead Rabbit … as Tex and HP discuss the intricacies of evolutionary theory, don’t feel too alone if your head is spinning. I love reading the dialog but they’ve gone waaaaaay over my head on the details. No one warned me that starting a social commentary blog would involve hitting the college books again! 🙂

  269. Tex – I will get back to the rest of your post soon – but I wanted to answer your thermodynamics question:

    So let me see if I am understanding this. You say the earth is a non-isolated system, but our solar system is not? Am I understanding you correctly?

    Yes – you are interpreting me correctly. I am a little bit surprised that you see this as a contentious point. An isolated system is one which does not receive energy from external sources. The earth obviously does. The solar system (if we ignore low-level cosmic radiation) does not.

    Note also that the 2nd law allows for “reverse entropy” (i.e., increases in complexity) to occur locally in non-isolated systems – even though the process describes the larger system of which that local system is a part.

    — hippieprof

  270. You going to have a thread on muslims getting violent towards our government?

    If we take the Muslim angle out for a moment, why would I blog about terrorist activities within the US? We are at war in two countries for the very reason that we fear terrorism. I don’t get much satisfaction by blogging about the obvious.

  271. Elric said…. I think everyone would complain if Bush tried to push to have the Olympics in Crawford Texas.

    Ahhh…. yes… but Crawford isn’t exactly Chicago, is it? I doubt very much that anyone would have complained had Bush attempted to bring the Olympics to Houston or Dallas.

    Note that the USOC chose Chicago to make the bid back in April of 2007 – a time when Hillary was still the frontrunner for the nomination and Obama was barely on anyone’s radar screen. Obama is simply pushing the choice the USOC had already made.

    Elric, sometimes in your rush to criticize Obama you jump to some really silly conclusions.

    — hp

  272. So let me see if I am understanding this. You say the earth is a non-isolated system, but our solar system is not? Am I understanding you correctly?

    Yeah HP, I have to echo Tex’s question on that one. Now I realize I’m talking out of my depth here, but my layman’s logic goes thusly:

    The Earth exists within our solar system. Our solar system exists within the larger universe. Why would you consider our solar system isolated? I hate to point to science fiction, but isn’t the whole premise of life elsewhere based on looking to “galaxies far, far away”?

  273. “If we take the Muslim angle out for a moment, why would I blog about terrorist activities within the US? We are at war in two countries for the very reason that we fear terrorism. I don’t get much satisfaction by blogging about the obvious.”

    You rather blog about your paranoia than reality?

    “Ahhh…. yes… but Crawford isn’t exactly Chicago, is it? I doubt very much that anyone would have complained had Bush attempted to bring the Olympics to Houston or Dallas.”

    Right. Sure they wouldnt.

    “Elric, sometimes in your rush to criticize Obama you jump to some really silly conclusions.’

    Your right. We are at war and Thuggy is more worried about getting his home town the Olympics than meeting his Generals.

  274. General McChrystal Says He’s Talked to Obama “Once” Since He’s Been in Afghanistan…

    Maybe Gorilla can help me out here but isn’t there a chain of command in the military? I was under the impression McChrystal reports to Petreaus, not directly to Obama. Why would it be unusual for McChrystal to not be in regular direct contact with the Commander-in-Chief?

    Again, Elric throwing everything at the wall hoping something sticks.

  275. Since General McChrystal is complaining about it, I would say its important.

    Sorry dude … either you didn’t watch the show or you were stoned when you watched it. The General stated it as a matter of fact, not as a criticism.

    And you have the nerve to call HP “Professor Bong”.

  276. Hippie,

    I’m reading about recombinant DNA techniques – I hope I guess well on the exam tomorrow. 😉

    Speaking of scanning textbooks, I had to get mine to look this up: Closed systems exchange energy but not matter with an outside system.

    So Hippie, explain to me why I should not believe we should better identify the earth as a closed system, being it obtains a lot of energy from the Sun but the exchange of matter with the outside almost zero? And as I recall from my chemistry classes, all processes in closed or isolated systems have increasing entropy. Am I wrong?

    I’ll be back to check later…

  277. Nice personal Rutherford. I have found that nothing motivates the soul like telling someone they are incapable of doing something.

    I have even used a little reverse psychology on my own children utilizing this technique and while it pisses them off, they almost always seem to overcome the obstacle placed in front of them by dad.

  278. Rutherford asks: The Earth exists within our solar system. Our solar system exists within the larger universe. Why would you consider our solar system isolated? I hate to point to science fiction, but isn’t the whole premise of life elsewhere based on looking to “galaxies far, far away”?

    In this case “isolation” refers to whether the system is receiving energy from the outside. The solar system is not completely isolated because small amounts of energy do come in from the outside. Some of the suns energy also leaves the system – but for our purposes these are negligible enough that we don’t need to consider them.

    The earth is not isolated because large amounts of energy come from the sun.

    The reason that is important is that the energy we receive from the sun is what powers biological processes. A “perpetual motion” machine is physically impossible because without an external source of energy some energy will be lost in the form of heat. Eventually the machine will cease functioning because it runs out of energy. Without energy from the sun biological processes would eventually cease because they would run out of energy to run (ignoring the obvious fact that everything would be frozen too…. 😉 )

    — hippieprof

  279. Thanks HP, I realized my error when I figured out you were restricting the meaning of “isolated” to the give and take of energy. Obviously astrophysics is not my strength. 😉

  280. Tex says: Speaking of scanning textbooks, I had to get mine to look this up: “Closed systems exchange energy but not matter with an outside system.” So Hippie, explain to me why I should not believe we should better identify the earth as a closed system, being it obtains a lot of energy from the Sun but the exchange of matter with the outside almost zero? And as I recall from my chemistry classes, all processes in closed or isolated systems have increasing entropy. Am I wrong?

    I was a little confused by your textbook quote at first – but with a little research I am reminded that a closed system is not the same as an isolated system.

    Here is a brief discussion of isolated systems:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isolated_system

    You will note that the description contained there is entirely consistent with what I have been saying – and is also relevant to the second law of thermodynamics.

    Here is a brief description of a closed system:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_system

    This is decidedly not what I have been talking about, and note that it does not have any implications for the second law – at least the way we have been discussing them.

    — hp

  281. This from HP’s Wiki definition of an isolated system:
    However, if the stochastic behavior of the molecules in actual walls is considered, along with the randomizing effect of the ambient, background thermal radiation, Boltzmann’s assumption of molecular chaos can be justified.

    After reading this, my head exploded. I’m cleaning up the mess as we speak. 🙂

  282. Hippie,

    This is decidedly not what I have been talking about, and note that it does not have any implications for the second law – at least the way we have been discussing them.

    Sure it does. In fact, if we are to prove that entropy is relevant to the discussion at hand, the first thing we must address is what type of system are we talking about. The very first thing we must decide is if the earth is open, closed or isolated? Right?

  283. If you’re curious gang, what Hippie and I are getting ready to talk about is the concept of free energy and spontaneous reactions…

    And it is obviously confusing, which is why I should have left my argument at simple biological constructs which most people find far more interesting, as nobody but Hippie and me giving a damn enough to read our junk about the 2nd law of Thermodynamics.

  284. “Elric, regarding comment 400, you are really are starting to resemble a bot. Please get back to posting comments that some programmer couldn’t simply automate.”

    That wasnt an answer Dodger. Maybe if you actually answered questions, people wouldnt have to repeat them. That ever cross your dronish mind?

  285. ObamaCare shoves costs onto states
    posted at 1:37 pm on September 28, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

    Barack Obama and his allies in Congress insist that their plans to overhaul the American health-care system won’t increase the federal deficit. So far, the CBO begs to differ, but even if one accepted that premise, it does nothing but shove costs off to the states. According to the Wall Street Journal, the Medicaid expansion on which both HR3200 and the Baucus plan in the Senate is predicated will create massive budget crises in all 50 states:

    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/09/28/obamacare-shoves-costs-onto-states/

  286. Tex said: The very first thing we must decide is if the earth is open, closed or isolated? Right?

    Fair enough. I think for our present purposes that the earth is a closed system (it exchanges energy/heat but not matter with the sun/surrounding space). As noted in the article below, this is not quite the case because certain events (meteor strikes, etc) make it an open system.

    http://www.biologicalthermodynamics.com/index_files/Page2287.htm

    The solar system itself approaches being an isolated system, but there is some energy exchange in the form of gravity and cosmic radiation.

    The only pure isolated system is the universe taken as a while.

    I originally raised this point because the second law of thermodynamics is defined in terms of isolated systems and does not hold in a closed or open system.

    — hippieprof

  287. Congressional Dems to open ObamaCare to illegals?
    posted at 2:18 pm on September 28, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

    What began as a bug in ObamaCare has now become a feature, according to Rep. Michael Honda (D-CA). The chair of the Congressional Asian-Pacific American Caucus now says that the government exchanges should cover immigrants, regardless of their legal status:

    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/09/28/congressional-dems-to-open-obamacare-to-illegals/

    The fascism never stops

  288. Hippie,

    I originally raised this point because the second law of thermodynamics is defined in terms of isolated systems and does not hold in a closed or open system.

    I must respectfully disagree again and think you are confusing the issue needlessly for the benefit of those reading. Reading through your WIKI link, I had to laugh because somehow the author managed to get “CREATIONISTS SAY” while disputing their point.

    Sound like an unbiased piece of scientific script to you Hippie? Creationists? Wrong? This once again demonstrates that this subject is indeed a loaded question and those scientists you said are apolitical are anything but.

    Before I proceed, I would like to ask you one personal question and to clarify a point. Can you give me your best stab at the definition of a Creationist? And are you now agreeing with me that the earth a closed system? Because if we are to go by the textbook version (I’ve got mine available), there are only three systems and two ways to measure entropy as you choose from: (1) Open, (2) Closed, (3) Isolated (The Universe).

    Because in the classic sense taught in every college chemistry room, in a closed system, entropy does indeed increase. But I would think it wouldn’t take that to prove my point about the chaos of our globe; entropy if you will. Your own version of Climate Change is based upon this premise.

  289. Tex – I think I have identified a source of the confusion here. I think there is some linguistic confusion – some people use the term “closed” and “isolated” as synonymous – while others do not.

    I just walked down the hall and talked to the chairs of both our our physics and chemistry departments. Both of them confirmed the following statement:

    “The second law of thermodynamics holds only in isolated systems. An isolated system is one in which neither energy nor matter enter or leave the system. The earth is not an isolated system because both energy and matter do enter and leave the system.”

    — hippieprof

  290. Hippie,

    Here is the textbook definition copied from:

    Open systems: Open systems can exchange both matter and energy with an outside system. They are portions of larger systems and in intimate contact with the larger system. Your body is an open system.

    Closed systems: Closed systems exchange energy but not matter with an outside system. Though they are typically portions of larger systems, they are not in complete contact. The Earth is essentially a closed system; it obtains lots of energy from the Sun but the exchange of matter with the outside is almost zero.

    Isolated systems: Isolated systems can exchange neither energy nor matter with an outside system. While they may be portions of larger systems, they do not communicate with the outside in any way. The physical universe is an isolated system; a closed thermos bottle is essentially an isolated system (though its insulation is not perfect).

    Heat can be transferred between open systems and between closed systems, but not between isolated systems.

    Brown, Lemay 9th Edition

    I’ll leave it to the audience to decide who is right…

  291. Hippie,

    From Wiki:

    This is very different, however, from the claim made by many creationists that evolution violates the second law of thermodynamics. Evidence indicates that biological systems and evolution of those systems conform to the second law, since although biological systems may become more ordered, the net change in entropy for the entire universe is still positive as a result of evolution.[16] Additionally, the process of natural selection responsible for such local increase in order may be mathematically derived from the expression of the second law equation for non-equilibrium connected open systems,[17] arguably making the Theory of Evolution itself an expression of the Second Law.

    Furthermore, the second law is only true of closed systems. It is easy to decrease entropy, with an energy source. For example, a refrigerator separates warm and cold air, but only when it is plugged in. Since all biology requires an external energy source, there’s nothing unusual (thermodynamically) with it growing more complex with time.
    ——————————————————

    What was that about “scientists” being apolitical again, Hippie?

  292. I pay my wife’s car by using one those “bill booklets”. Every month, I pay and rip one out. The booklet contained 60 stubs.

    Now, I’m such a moron, I assumed the car loan was 60 months. I opened the letter today, proudly expecting to see the title, but instead learned I owe another year of payments.

    This with child care, which on principal, I’m disgusted over, is going to work me hard. HARD.

    At least we have a proven and nice person coming to our house to watch the baby.

    I want to find 2002 Rabbit and Donkey Punch him.

    My rage at myself is at about a 8 out of 10.

    I’m sure snesico is about to lecture me about my stupidity and I’m not sure I could conjure up a response back.

    I’M A FUCKEN MORON THAT DIDN’T EVEN INVESTIGATE THE DAMN LOAN!

    The interesting thing is easly transfers to those motherfuckers on Wallstreet getting bonuses with American money.

    I would never resort to violence. And don’t condone it. But, if someone started abducting these fucks and getting medieval on them, I’m not sure I would stay up at night worrying.

    Ahhh yes……the power of semi-misplaced aggression.

    The Dark Side feels so gooooooood!

  293. “I’m sure snesico is about to lecture me about my stupidity and I’m not sure I could conjure up a response back.”

    soooo tempted to write something, you don’t realize how hard it is to not write something lol but since you know what my response would be, I’ll just, smh@you

  294. Tex – what I am trying to say is that your two recent posts (415 and 416) are using the terms “closed” and “isolated” in different ways. Post 416 claims that the 2nd lawONLY applies to “closed” systems – which would apparently not include isolated systems. But isolated systems are, according to 415, even more “isolated” than a closed system. How can you reconcile those two points? The answer is that the two sources are using the terms differently. It looks like 415 is making a distinction between three types of system while 416 is only making a distinction between two. This is exactly what I was referring to in 414.

    I will be happy to let the audience decide if they are indeed able to see that the two sources are contradictory.

    Can you provide a link for that wiki quote? I can’t find that quote in either of the wiki links I posted.

    Even given the quote, I can’t quite understand why you say this is political. It is a statement of what scientists said on the basis of scientific theory – I don’t see how anything political comes into it al all.

    It seems like you are saying “anytime a scientists says something other than what I believe it must be political” – but isn’t there an alternative – that what you believe and what scientists believe are if fact different for reasons totally unrelated to politics?

    — hippieprof

  295. Hippieprof,

    Let’s just say this.

    Concerning evolution, what you are witnessing is the Scopes Monkey Trial turned upside down. Scientists with pet theories afraid to be challenged, so their M.O to silence the voices. Why do you think people are pulling their children from the public schools in droves?

    Ben Stein did indeed make a movie about it called Expelled, where he the Wall Street financier managed to tie the world’s most devout and renowned political active atheist, an evolutionary biologist of much note named Richard Dawkins, and turned him to the bumbling fool. It was a sight to behold, yes indeed.

    By the end of the interview, our worldly genius Dawkins was talking about the earth being “seeded” by little green men. It was not your ilk’s finest hour Hippie. And for anybody of concern, it was incredibly obvious this whole argument not about the mechanism but about the who and the why?

  296. Why do you think people are pulling their children from the public schools in droves?

    I’d love to see some stats on that. The word, exaggeration is just screaming at me right now.

  297. We don’t need no education
    We dont need no thought control
    No dark sarcasm in the classroom
    Teachers leave them kids alone
    Hey! Teachers! Leave them kids alone!

  298. hippieprof,

    of course that shit isn’t cool.

    but don’t you see that facebook et al is essentially yesteryear’s pub?

    your privy to every conversation at O’Mally’s and every other old school watering hole.

  299. I just walked down the hall and talked to the chairs of both our our physics and chemistry departments.

    When I walk down the hall, I talk to the team leader of web server support specialists and a five year old. Any wonder I feel outclassed in this conversation? 😀

  300. people are not pulling their kids out in droves. Homeschooling parents are going to work and people are pulling out of private schools and opting for public.

  301. Tex….

    Oh – there is no doubt that for Dawkins it is political – but I think you need to take him as the exception rather than the norm.

    He doesn’t need to be getting so political – and unfortunately I think he dilutes the impact of his scientific message with the political stuff. It is too bad, because some of his early theoretical work – before he became so political – is actually quite brilliant.

    I haven’t seen Ben Stein’s movie – just clips – but apparently he blames Darwin for the holocaust? As if antisemitism didn’t exist prior to Darwin? Seriously?

    Dawkins’ explanation about the alien bit is that Strein asked him to speculate on that issue and then edited the film to make it look like Dawkins had introduced the idea. Who knows what really happened? I do know that Dawkins is a pretty savvy guy and it is odd that he would open that issue without some type of prompting.

    — hp

  302. Comparing pogroms to the holocaust doesn’t cut it. Darwinism was a huge factor in the Eugenics of fascist Germany. Huge.

    Darwinism + Machiavelli + anti-antisemitism + Hitler =6 million Jews exterminated like insects.

  303. hippieprof, your opinion on the Obama songs by the little ones?

    I would rather they were not occurring. I wish they weren’t occurring for the simple political reason that it can be misinterpreted and exploited by the opposition. I don’t believe (as some seem to think) that it reflects some large-scale propaganda operation. I think instead that it the the actions of a few over-zealous teachers who don’t recognize they are actually doing harm.

    — hp

  304. Rabbit, I think it was sometime in my 20’s that I was told to never finance a car because (except in the case of classic cars) you’re paying interest on a depreciating asset. Only once in my life when I was at the top of my financial game was I able to follow this advice. I walked into a VW dealership (1999 was the year) and paid cash for a new Beetle. Damn that was sweet. The next best thing is paying for the car with an equity loan ‘cos then you can write off the interest. We did that with my wife’s pre-owned (don’t you love that euphemism for USED) BMW.

    Bottom line, a lot more of us would be rich if we knew in advance the folly of our choices. That’s the case with my mortgage (as Tex so politely reminded everyone a while back).

    Don’t sweat the past dude. Can’t change it. Just move on.

  305. “I wish they weren’t occurring for the simple political reason that it can be misinterpreted and exploited by the opposition.”

    How else can it be interpreted?

    “I don’t believe (as some seem to think) that it reflects some large-scale propaganda operation.”

    Actually we dont know how large or small this propaganda is.

  306. Darwinism + Machiavelli + anti-antisemitism + Hitler =6 million Jews exterminated like insects.

    That is quite an oversimplification. I would certainly want to add Schopenhauer, Nietzsche and Galton to that mix – as well as quite a number of lesser-known figures. Remember also that two other theorists (Spencer and Wallace) came up with theories of evolution almost simultaneously with Darwin. Spencer is in fact a more direct line to Hitler because Spencer first elucidated the concept of Social Darwinism.

    Curiously, Social Darwinism was also a driving force behind 19th Century Robber-Baron capitalism in the US – with the influence most clearly seen in Andrew Carnegie.

    — hp

  307. Thank you Rabbit for explaining that to Hippie. You saved me a lot of trouble.

    LIttle wonder most people don’t recognize that much of Hitler’s work, including Mein Kampf, was taken in large part by another one of those fine agnostic/atheistic types by the name of Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche.

  308. “That is quite an oversimplification. ” -hippieprof

    Anytime someone is using plus signs and equal signs in a 5 word quip I would say it’s sighlty boiled down. The funny thing is I had a feeling you would name drop Nietzsche.

    Your such an awesome Übermensch of a professor.

  309. “I think instead that it the the actions of a few over-zealous teachers who don’t recognize they are actually doing harm.”-hippieprof

    Oh, by harm you mean your “movement”. Not the kids or anything. Or did I read your response wrong?

  310. Here Rutherford,

    You’re hardly worth arguing with anymore.

    Tex, your article on folks pulling out of public school in droves:

    Publication Date: 1966-11-00

    This was from 1966 dude and it had to do with forced integration. This was your idea of a joke right?

  311. Rutherford, 😆

    You wasted my time – I wasted your’s. So make it worth my while. How much do you want to bet me about people yanking their kids out of public schools?

  312. The funny thing is I had a feeling you would name drop Nietzsche. Your such an awesome Übermensch of a professor.

    Yeah – but I bet you didn’t anticipate the bit about Social Darwinism influencing robber-baron capitalism…..

    😉

    — hp

  313. How much do you want to bet me about people yanking their kids out of public schools?

    If you read carefully, your bet is with me and DR, unless I misunderstood DR’s comment.

    Care to take us both on? 😉

  314. homeschooling may actually be on the rise, while private school wanes. quantifying homeschooling is tough because many get home schooled and then go to high school.

  315. “Kids are pretty naive when they are 18 – and worse yet, they think they are sophisticated – which is a terrible combination.” — HP

    Wow, HP just nailed Sensico to a “T”.

  316. I would say it is unusual. When Petreaus was the Iraq commander, he was in touch with Bush at least once a week, but more like every other day. If Obama has only spoken to McCrystal once, then my concern would be his commitment to the situation. Either he is afraid of McCrystal (won’t understand the issue) or he is keeping distance to prevent connections, which would imply a goating is to be had soon. Regardless, he should be taking to him unless he is so enamored with Petreaus that he is abdigating control to him, which I doubt.

  317. why all the ageism? So I guess I’m not grown enough to comment on this blog 🙄

    I do find it interesting that the same people who complain about Sensico’s opinions vis-a-vis her age reserve the right to savage her on a regular basis in a manner unbecoming of so called adults dealing with a “child”. Seems folks want to have their cake and eat it too. Dismiss her opinions ‘cos she’s young but expect her to take the slings and arrows like a grownup.

    You know where I stand Sensico. Comment to your heart’s content. I agree with about 90% of what you have to say and your right to say it. The other 10% I’ll call out when I see it.

  318. Care to take us both on?

    Where I live in the South? You bet! How much? Public school enrollment is dropping like a lead balloon, either due to home schooling and/or more affordable private enrollment. But one caveat – we use 2007/2008 enrollment. The economy has stopped some of the flight.

    What shall we wager?

  319. Lefty pundits wonder: Is Obama just a blowhard who likes to blame other people?

    I.e. as Jim Geraghty has forever warned us, all Obama statements come with an expiration date. Nice to see these two finally cluing into that idea. For an especially egregious illustration, enjoy Flopping Aces’s litany of dire Obama warnings over the years about Afghanistan being a “war of necessity.” Or if you prefer, via Hot Air Pundit, here he is in campaign mode talking a good hawkish game. It’s almost as if he says what he needs to say to get elected, isn’t it?

  320. SPRINGFIELD, Ill., Sept. 24 (UPI) — A 29-year-old Illinois man has been arrested on charges of planning to detonate a truck bomb to blow up a federal building in Springfield, authorities said.

    Michael C. Finton, who also goes by Talib Islam and aspired to be a “jihadist fighter,”drove a truck he believed carried nearly a ton of explosives Wednesday to the Paul Findley Federal Building and Courthouse in Springfield, the state capital, federal authorities said. Finton, of Decatur, Ill., then got into a waiting car with an undercover FBI agent and, when the car got a few blocks away from the building, used a cell phone to try to set off explosives, authorities said.

    The truck contained inactive explosives and Finton was arrested immediately after allegedly trying to detonate them.

    He made his initial court appearance Thursday on charges of attempted murder of federal officers or employees and attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction.

    Federal authorities said Finton “idolized” John Walker Lindh, an American who fought with the Taliban.

    http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/09/24/Ill-man-held-in-alleged-truck-bomb-plot/UPI-52201253831692/

    Sounds more dangerous than a tea partier, wouldnt you say Dodger?

  321. Mourning in Chicago

    Almost four score years old, Leak & Sons Funeral Home, on Cottage Grove Avenue, is something of an institution on Chicago’s South Side. (In 1964, for example, it was the site of the funeral for crooner Sam Cooke.) It is also something of a barometer for murder, much to the dismay of Spencer Leak Sr., the proprietor: he buried at least 56 homicide victims between January 1 and August 1, too many of them much closer to 18 than to 80. Last year, he buried 85 homicide victims in all, the vast majority of them kids, 37 Chicago public-school students, almost all of them African American or Hispanic, killed in the 2008–09 school year, up from 27 the year before.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200910/chicago-funeral

    Sounds like the perfect place for the Olympics

  322. Obamateurism of the Day
    posted at 8:05 am on September 29, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

    Allahpundit already posted about this, but it’s still a worthwhile addition to the OOTD library because of its many levels of bad choice. Barack Obama has decided to put his international influence on the line not to push for more support in Afghanistan or sanctions on Iran, but to act as Salesman in Chief for Chicago and its Olympics big for 2016. Politico’s Eamon Javers and Nia-Malika Henderson can’t quite comprehend the politics of it:

    But now that he’s traveling to Copenhagen personally to make the pitch Friday, some experts say he better not come home empty-handed.

    The White House knows that the decision to go before the International Olympic Committee is fraught with political risk: The president could be embarrassed on a world stage if he doesn’t land the games.

    Plus, more than a few Americans are surely scratching their heads — with his inbox crowded with a troop request for Afghanistan, a new secret nuclear site in Iran, sky-high unemployment and a health care bill in Congress, does the president really have time for this?

    Supposedly, the White House was worried about how Obama would look if he didn’t personally appear in Copenhagen to press the IOC. Well, he would have looked like … a President with bigger problems on his plate than which city would lose tons of money this time in hosting an overblown sporting event. Obama isn’t the President of Chicago, after all; he’s the leader of the free world, with a big decision pending on a war he’s presently supposed to be fighting.

    So what are the potential outcomes?

    1. The IOC awards the games to Chicago, which makes it look as though Obama got tipped off and set up his trip as a political stunt.
    2. The IOC awards the games to another city, and Obama looks like a fool.
    3. In either case, everyone wonders why Obama got personally involved at all.

    There is a reason why heads of state usually remain above this kind of issue, which is that they’re supposed to be above it. Obama still hasn’t learned from the Gates arrest that presidents don’t need to get involved in municipal affairs.

    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/09/29/obamateurism-of-the-day-128/

  323. Seems folks want to have their cake and eat it too. Dismiss her opinions ‘cos she’s young but expect her to take the slings and arrows like a grownup.

    I have to admit I have had the same thoughts too on the Sensico bashing.

    One thing I can say for her (and I would say this no matter what side of the political fence she was on) – I greatly admire that she cares so much and has the passion to want to express an opinion.

    A lot of college students these days are completely passive. They are bright and motivated and work hard – but sheesh – try to get them to take a position on something – or to defend an opinion – or even to have an opinion? It can be like pulling teeth.

    It is a great change from when I grew up and college students were marching and occupying buildings are screaming to be heard.

    So – regardless of what you think of Sensico’s opinions you should be proud of her because she cares enough to have them.

    — hippieprof

  324. Mr. Finton went by the nickname Talib Islam (student of Islam). The authorities say he had converted to the Islamic faith while in an Illinois prison from 2001 to 2006, serving a sentence for aggravated robbery and aggravated battery. Acquaintances say he had been living in Decatur, about 40 miles east of Springfield, for perhaps three years….

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/09/illinois-jihad-suspect-didnt-like-america-very-much.html

    That explains a lot. Could have been worse, he could have joined the tea parties. Right Dodger?

  325. LMAO That was hilarious

    Doesn’t surprise me Elric – you probably haven’t been around many college students lately. They generally don’t bother to have opinions. It is nice to see an exception. But – you don’t seem to have any respect at all for anything that does not fit into your excessively narrow view of the world – so it does not surprise me at all that you don’t get it…..

    — hp

  326. “But – you don’t seem to have any respect at all for anything that does not fit into your excessively narrow view of the world.”

    I dont see her respecting my views. Even asked her what she meant by the labels she attached to me with no answer. So shove it Pro Bong.

  327. well thank you and suuuure, I respect elric for expressing his views written by others.

    Now, this might not be violence but it’s definitely a sign of the effects of Limbaugh on drawing out the racists on a situation that wasn’t even about race. What’s up with conservatives sudden war on kids. They did not have to make this into a race issue. And as far as the school children singing is concerned, I prefer for it not to happen but maybe the kids wanted to sing the song. Anyways,

    Bus beating Limbaugh exploited draws neo-Nazis
    http://rawstory.com/2009/09/neo-nazis-rally-over-limbaughs-pet-hate-crime/

  328. “I prefer for it not to happen but maybe the kids wanted to sing the song.”

    And I am sure is they wanted to sing songs about Jesus, that would be ok with you and the ACLU.

  329. I respect elric for expressing his views written by others.

    LOL now that was funny. 😀

    Now, this might not be violence but it’s definitely a sign of the effects of Limbaugh on drawing out the racists on a situation that wasn’t even about race.

    The hue and cry of conservatives is that Rush isn’t responsible for the actions of others. I still wonder how he sleeps at night knowing that what he thinks is a rational expression of his free speech, translates to irrational behavior in others.

    My uncle used to tell us a story that really illustrates the Rush phenom. My uncle was at a dinner party once in a ballroom. Two folks were seated at his table and one was complaining about a fellow they knew several tables away. The one guy said to the other, “If Bob bothers you so much, why don’t you just go over there and sock him in the nose?” The other promptly rose to his feet, walked over to the other table and did just that. The first guy never dreamed that the second guy would actually get up and punch Bob in the nose. The first guy felt remorse in that he felt he instigated the matter. Did HE punch Bob in the nose? No. But he felt responsible for lighting the fuse.

    I doubt Rush ever has such qualms. Real shame.

  330. And I am sure is they wanted to sing songs about Jesus, that would be ok with you and the ACLU.

    Interesting comment Elric. Why do I strongly suspect you would have zero objection to kids singing about Jesus Christ at a public school?

  331. A lot of college students these days are completely passive. They are bright and motivated and work hard – but sheesh – try to get them to take a position on something – or to defend an opinion – or even to have an opinion? It can be like pulling teeth.

    I can give you a perspective on this HippieProf, albeit a 30 years ago perspective.

    When I was in college I was not at all worried about being accused of traditional plagiarism because I knew it was wrong to lift people’s stuff and call it your own. But I was terrified of the notion of expressing an original thought. I felt, at 18, what could I possibly come up with that someone smarter than I hadn’t already said somewhere. As a result, my first couple of papers in Expository Writing got the gentleman’s C. I finally wrote a paper on euthanasia, filled with the passion I felt about it at the time. I got my first A. The instructor told me that unless I put myself into my writing, my opinions, my passion, I would not succeed. It changed the way I wrote from that point on.

    So I’m suggesting that some of what you see in your students may not be ambivalence but rather fear of finding and using their true voice.

  332. Sounds like the perfect place for the Olympics

    Elric, while not completely analogous, are you aware that both Yale and Columbia University essentially abut ghettos, high crime areas? So one might say with Elric-sarcasm, “that’s a fine place to have a higher learning institution”. The fact is these campuses manage to stay pretty insulated and keep the crime out.

    The Olympics planners are perfectly able to conduct the Olympics in Chicago without having to worry about crime.

    P.S. Don’t hit me with the fact that Yale and Columbia are centuries old institutions that weren’t “placed” in a ghetto. The fact is the surrounding areas got ugly and neither university has pulled up stakes and moved elsewhere. They mange quite well.

  333. But one caveat – we use 2007/2008 enrollment.

    Your caveat just killed the wager since it flies in the face of DR’s main point that the economy has driven public school attendance up, not down.

  334. uhh yes the freaking thread that’ll never end. Glorious.
    As for the Olympics no matter where they are the Games are corrupt. I wonder if anyone has given any thought to whether Chicago or any American city at this time can truly afford to pursue and host the games. Perhaps after Beijing and London the IOCC won’t be as graft hungry as it has always been. Nah!
    Also on the grounds of fairness etc. Rio is a contender and helps LA/SA have a shot that they have not have since what Mexico ?

  335. And oh yeah. Harvard isn’t in the best area(s)) either. MIT too. Although they have caused a great deal of gentrification that has shafted the common folk the underclass are near. In fact when you look at Bostons academia you find none of them except possibly BC are without issues of location location location.

  336. Rutherford 473. Elric absoolutely had a great point. I understand you don’t like the religious angle though so let’s go with a few choruses of “W is so great” or “Mitt is a hit” or something similiar. You loving your daughter belting out those tunes in school ?

  337. “Interesting comment Elric. Why do I strongly suspect you would have zero objection to kids singing about Jesus Christ at a public school?”

    You didnt answer the question as usual

  338. I never felt that way, maybe what HP is also seeing is boredom and laziness. Universities pile on so much work and unnecessary requirements, we don’t have time to think about these things. But I prefer to because I think it’s interesting.

  339. New York jihad plot: “We just know that it was going to be a very bad attack”

    More on the New York/Colorado jihad plot. “Officials: NYC Plot Operational, Not Just Aspirational,” by Dina Temple-Raston for NPR, September 28 (thanks to James):

    The man at the center of an alleged plot to blow up transportation targets in New York City is scheduled to appear before a Brooklyn judge for the first time Tuesday. Najibullah Zazi is accused of plotting to use weapons of mass destruction against U.S. targets in what law enforcement officials say was the most serious terrorist threat against the U.S. since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/09/new-york-jihad-plot-we-just-know-that-it-was-going-to-be-a-very-bad-attack.html

    But what about those racist Tea Partiers? Dont they pose a greater danger?

  340. Harvard isn’t in the best area(s)) either.

    I thought to include Harvard, Alfie but I honestly didn’t think Cambridge held a candle to Harlem or even New Haven in terms of urban blight. A matter of opinion of course.

  341. “Curator, I skimmed your post. Bravo! I always felt the Honduras situation was fishy. Thanks for doing the work to flesh it out!”

    As fishy as Thuggy allowing Iran in after it beat down murdered and raped protesters?

  342. Curator=x?
    You fall into an equal trap of the right wingnuts you despise.
    The truth is the Michelletti govt. has made serious missteps but people like you suck in confessing that Zelaya is essentially helping to foment civil war. You all seem to fail to remember that Honduras is divided on this issue.You see the marchers and isten to the voices you want. PATHETIC!!!!

  343. Zelaya is essentially helping to foment civil war.

    Look, I find this one of the most puzzling of incidents and maybe someone better versed can help me out.

    The Honduras constitution called for term limits on the President. Zelaya wanted to challenge that clause, did he not? Now am I the only one who thinks it is zany to make such a challenge illegal? Doesn’t a true democracy seek organized legislative resolution to such a challenge rather than criminalize it? And as Curator notes in his piece, even if we are to accept the Honduras law as it stands, the proper resolution is to kick the man out of the country?

    Please someone tell me why this makes any sense.

  344. Dodger,

    Already posted twice on that it was legal what Honduras did to oust the thug.

    You are better served by asking why is Thuggy more concerned about Honduras than depots regimes like Cuba or islamist regimes like Iran which violate the freedoms of its citizens in a much larger degree.

    Which disgusts you more? A marxist booted out of his country or protesters raped and murdered?

  345. Rutherford said…. So I’m suggesting that some of what you see in your students may not be ambivalence but rather fear of finding and using their true voice.

    Maybe – though I also think a lot of it has to do with social pressure. When I ask them occasionally one will tell me (sheepishly) that they don’t want to look too smart among their peers because there is social pressure not to stand out like that.

    — hp

  346. R
    It’s not our place to accept or refuse Honduran law. I’m pretty secure in my belief none of us are Honduran nationals.
    Under no circumstance of Honduran law was it wrong for the legislative and judicial branches to remove Zelaya.
    They did step over a line by removing him from the country.
    Protests were allowed and actually embody exactly what the new interim govt. probably was trying to prevent in the first place. You continually put forth the concepts of some type of democracy but seemingly fail to appreciate that many feared Zelayas continued slide to the Bolivarian Left. aka Hugo puppet theater.
    Zelaya and others are clearly stirring the pot and bringing violence to the forefront. They and their sympathizers take twisted comfort in knowing the world will blame Micheletti& co. Meanwhile cheezy Z sits in the Brazilian embassy like a coward.
    Let me ask you a question since you seem to have a least a glimmer of growing interest in the matter.
    At what point will you accept that Z’s actions represent a threat to the November elections and the transfer of power come January?

  347. Sensico said…. Curator, I been meaning to suggest you finesse the blog with social media buttons because your posts deserve to be shared and read.

    Here is one where the ageism thing works to your advantage Sensico…. people above a certain age are pretty much idiots when it comes to social networking.

    I have been wanting to do more of this on my blog – and I have an RSS feed there – but beyond that I am not entirely sure what to do…. any specific suggestions?

    — hp

  348. regards whatever part of this thread is related to HP in 498 what grade level are you all looking at ? I know in Boston there has been many stories of inner city kids “keeping it real” by conforming to bad peer pressure regard schoolwork. That is on the middle and high school level though.

  349. “At what point will you accept that Z’s actions represent a threat to the November elections and the transfer of power come January?”

    You are asking a guy who doesnt care that Iranian protesters were beaten down like animals or cares that Thuggy is reaching out to such a regime but snubs Honduras. If you are looking for a serious conversation or debate on it, look elsewhere.

  350. Alfie – these are college kids at a highly selective private school. There are a few inner-city kids in the bunch – and they actually speak up a bit more often. The hardest ones to get talking are the rich suburban kids – many of whom have been taught to be polite to their elders and hence can’t fathom challenging a professor or other “authority.”

    — hp

  351. HP thanks for the followup. Threads this outrageously long and diverse you get lost. I was curious. Kind of sadder at the college level. On the brink of entering the real world and passing up the opportunity to grow a bit.Sad.

  352. that they don’t want to look too smart among their peers

    HP, I thought that was only prevalent in the black community, seriously. Apparently it’s uncool to be smart everywhere. Real shame.

  353. You are asking a guy who doesnt care that Iranian protesters were beaten down like animals

    Elric, I don’t know whether to have sympathy for you for apparent amnesia or to ridicule you as an ass.

    We have been down this road before. Obama voiced his concerns over the Iranian election and its aftermath. What more did you want him to do? Don’t bother answering as we’ve covered this ground already.

  354. “What more did you want him to do?”

    Bar Iran as he did Honduras.

    “Don’t bother answering as we’ve covered this ground already.”

    I did but you dodged because you dont have to courage to explain the bias in Thuggy’s decision.

  355. I have been wanting to do more of this on my blog – and I have an RSS feed there – but beyond that I am not entirely sure what to do…. any specific suggestions?

    For HP and anyone else who might be interested, addthis,com is a powerful method to syndicate your posts to several social networks. You’ll notice a “share” button on my sidebar (under the Twitter button). When you press that, it offers you a bunch of social bookmarking and networking sites to which you can publish any one of my posts. You can set this button up on your own blog as well.

    I’m sure, since I am an old-fogey 🙂 that Sensico has some other good ideas as well!

  356. “they don’t want to look too smart among their peers because there is social pressure not to stand out like that”

    heres my experience with appearing too smart. You get labeled the smart student and every other student either wanna get in a study group with you or bother you with their easy arse questions lol I definitely don’t want to stand out in class so when professors ask questions, I give the generic answer unless I want to look smart and hopefully get that internship with a professor.

    any specific suggestions?

    I have a ton. You’re really going to need to add social networking sites. Heres a program that was specifically designed for us wordpress.com users. It creates a simple html code that you add to the html editor. A new version of the program just came out http://hillelstoler.com/2009/09/22/get-social-with-getsocial-104/

    I use something else for my blog but that would require you use FireFox browser and have the Greasemonkey addon.

    You should also have a twitter account and post my latest blog posts and use hashtags to increase your search engine optimization. Also use unique tags in your posts. Think about it, when people are searching for a specific topic, they aren’t going to search for the word “political” and find your blog on google. Mention specific names of those mentioned in the post and what “normal people” might search. Like one of my search engine terms today was “health care protester irony” if I had simply tagged “politics, health care, Obama” they wouldn’t have found my blog

    Also I recommend actually joining and sharing your posts on these social networking sites. Twitter is a good place and democrats are trying take away this control conservatives have on twitter with the # of users under #tcot tag. Democrats have the #p2 tag.

    Takes time though. I started my blog during the campaign, made it on the front page of digg.com, micheal moore’s site, and AFL-CIO’s site. I would imagine it’d be harder to do that now for smaller blogs.

    Oh, and go to feedburner.com and sign up and then post a link for people to subscribe to your blog posts by email. I noticed a few weeks ago that those emails of my blog posts were being circulated and ended up on someone’s site. I thought that was weird though lol

  357. Another tip is to put your social networking buttons somewhere near the top and noticeable because I didn’t even notice the twitter and add this button on R’s sidebar lol

  358. Alfie, if we assume that despite Micheletti’s latest behavior there will indeed be honest elections, then the noble thing for Zelaya to do is go back to his country and return to civilian life, accepting the current crazy Honduran political process as he found it.

  359. Regarding the IBD article on Islam being taught in schools, Islam, like every other major religion should be taught to children warts and all. In the context of a comparative religion course, or a history course, a fair assessment should be presented.

    Unfortunately, this may get me off on another rant that will extend this thread another 400 comments. Bottom line, history is just that: HIS-STORY. All too often we confuse history with objective truth. It seldom is.

  360. Well thank you for that Rutherford. Sadly the UN has already said it will not monitor the elections. Who gets the shaft there? The Honduran people. Who gets blamed? micheletti & Co. (ironically members of the ruling party same as Z’s)So my frustration knows no bounds on this.

  361. Alfie I admit the cult of personality that surrounds Obama is a bit much. I thought it would fade soon after he took office. It hasn’t. I think it will in another year or so. The press and many ordinary people still view him as exotic. Once that wears off, you’ll see fewer kids literally singing his praises.

  362. Alfie says: “I wonder if anyone has given any thought to whether Chicago or any American city at this time can truly afford to pursue and host the games.”

    I think I know what you mean here but surely you have to concede the Olympics can be a major revenue generator for the host city.

  363. Elric, please tell me, what would be the point of an Islam-terrorists-in-the-USA post? As an opportunity to point out the evils of Islam? If so, you’re better qualified to write such a post. Give it a shot, mail it to me and I’ll consider publishing it as a guest post. 😉

  364. “As an opportunity to point out the evils of Islam? ”

    Given you had no problem with the “opportunity” to smear the conservative backlash against Thuggy with this thread, I dont know why you wouldnt want to have a post on a white muslim convert busted for trying to blow up a government building.

  365. “I think I know what you mean here but surely you have to concede the Olympics can be a major revenue generator for the host city.”

    No, they usually end up losing money.

  366. Democrats have the #p2 tag.

    Interesting, Sensico, I hadn’t known about the #p2 hashtag. I did recently discover the #topprog for progressive.

    You are right that for some reason Twitter attracts conservatives. Dunno why. 😦

  367. Another tip is to put your social networking buttons somewhere near the top and noticeable because I didn’t even notice the twitter and add this button on R’s sidebar lol

    Seriously, you think I should put them above the Categories section?

  368. “Regarding the IBD article on Islam being taught in schools, Islam, like every other major religion should be taught to children warts and all. In the context of a comparative religion course, or a history course, a fair assessment should be presented.”

    But its not. Still dont understand why libs for some reason are enamored with islam.

  369. well you should add yourself to the directory, http://tweetprogress.us/

    Yeah, I’m not quite sure about all the conservatives on twitter either. I follow a lot of conservatives on twitter and I don’t get the hype. And yesterday some Arizona GOPer followed me and I followed back, and then sends and automated message about donating to his campaign. I’m bout ready to unfollow him, he tweets like crazy lol

  370. No, they usually end up losing money.

    Perhaps you’re right long term. I have heard that once the Olympics ups and leaves, the host city is high and dry with no way to sustain the interest in retail establishments. I still maintain the host city gets a short term shot in the arm.

  371. McCrystal reports to Petreaus, who reports to Gates, then Obama.

    Please, look at the libs circle the wagons- you’d think a night stand was humming or something 😉

    Sensico reminds me of Lenny from Of Mice and Men, only she doesn’t have the redeeming quality of physical strength. Remeber, this is the person who runs the ‘Obama’s Kids are so Cute when I’m not Bashing/Smearing Republicans I know Nothing About’ blog, thinks taxes are charity and votes republican sometimes (though she can’t name a one) for checks and balances. Come on, she may be an adult, but she has the mental capacity of a child. Why? Because she’s young and hasn’t experienced anything in life, yet she’s ignornat- and frankly quite arrogant- to tell us how things ought to be.

    Sorry, but HP hit it on the head- naivete combined with faux sophistication results in an elitist mindset that can only fail. Have an opinion? Wonderful, please, do share- but don’t assume your opinions have any merit in reality- you’ve yet to enter reality. You’re still in a bubble, shielded from the trials and tribulations of real life.

    Your biggest fear- finals.

    Mine, crashing in the desert in the middle of hell and hoping the bad guys don’t find me first so I don’t wind up on youtube.

    Everything is realative, learn some context…

  372. for some reason I thought hippieprof would have been an already used name lol

    You’re on there at least, but I think since you just signed up you get the generic twitter profile pic, it might take a while

  373. Mine, crashing in the desert in the middle of hell and hoping the bad guys don’t find me first so I don’t wind up on youtube.

    Gorilla, I’ve said I respect your service but to hold your extreme life experience up as the standard we all must meet to be credible, I think is unfair.

  374. HP, don’t worry about your relative Twitter ignorance. Sensico and I will help you out as needed.

    In addition to hashtags, you need to learn about “retweeting” and I strongly recommend you download the free tool Tweetdeck which makes Twitter much easier to use. 🙂

  375. There is a line to cross that makes free speech hate speech. This is one of them. That line must be defined. Something must be done or it would go way out of hand. I hope this is the last drop of blood spilled though…

  376. ST, welcome to the blog. I notice that you devote a good deal of your blog to opposing hate speech. I commend you, Folks are minimizing the deleterious effects. I hope we don’t all end up seeing some dire consequences.

  377. Good call Alfie!!!

    Since they try to scatter that thing around like a political hot potato, it looked to me like the last couple of days America wasn’t going to be getting it. And that’s an economically good thing.

    The last thing I wanted to see was THE BOMBA wearing his crown and waving his magic wand on stage!

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