Health Care Reform — Now It’s Personal — Obama Video Address: August 22, 2009

In this week’s video address, President Obama takes another stab at calming fears about impending health care reform legislation. The basic points:

  • The new bill will federally fund abortions — BUNK
  • The new bill will make it easier for illegal aliens to get free health care — BUNK
  • The new bill will incentivise euthanasia — BUNK
  • The new bill is a total takeover of the health care system — BUNK

Obama repeats another statement that he has been making consistently and that up until recently I felt was misleading. He stated that if you like your current insurance you’ll get to keep it. I have always argued that your insurance choices are dictated by your company and if they dump all choices but the public option, then you will indeed have to make a change. I tuned into Obama’s meeting with Organizing for America (OFA) at the DNC headquarters last week and finally someone asked him how this statement could be true. For the first time I heard an answer. The bill will contain what Obama referred to as a “firewall” which will explicitly make it illegal for companies to “dump” their employees into the public option. With this measure in place, my only major misgiving about the legislation has been answered.

In the days since Obama recorded this message, the fight for health care has become even more personal. Of course, for Obama it always was since his mother spent her final months fighting with insurance companies to pay for her cancer treatments. But the latest event to make the matter more personal was the passing last night of Senator Edward M. Kennedy, Democrat from Massachusetts. Kennedy spent decades fighting for universal health care and it was a prime imperative that he thrust upon the new President, even before Obama was elected.

Admittedly, I have mixed feelings about the politicization of Kennedy’s death. There seems to be a theme emerging among politicians with a pro-reform agenda, that to oppose the new health care bill is to dishonor the memory of Senator Kennedy. I consider this emotional blackmail and to some degree, disrespectful of the late Senator. Be that as it may, Kennedy himself would probably be quite pleased if his death “guilted” the opposition into cooperating with reform. We shall see what the impact is in the coming weeks.

And now the President of the United States of America:

The Kennedy Paradox

While we’re on the subject of Kennedy’s passing, one cannot let the event go by without discussing the unusual paradox that is the Kennedy clan. Legend has it that John and Robert Kennedy were voracious philanderers, even going so far as to “share” Marilyn Monroe. Ted Kennedy’s own presidential aspirations were ruined by his own detestable handling of an automobile accident at Chappaquiddick in which a female former campaign worker of Robert Kennedy was killed. We live in a forgiving country (can anyone say “David Vitter”?) and had the accident at Chappaquiddick happened last year and not 40 years ago, I still think the ultimate reaction would have been of forgiveness.

Yet the paradox remains. Embodied in the Kennedy brothers was at once an unsteady moral compass, at least in matters of sexuality, and a dogged commitment to public service. Few men have served this country so long and with such dedication as Ted Kennedy. There are those for whom Chappaquiddick erases any good deeds Kennedy did before or since. For me, the Kennedy’s teach us how complicated it is to be a human being and how readily good and evil can co-exist within us all.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

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476 thoughts on “Health Care Reform — Now It’s Personal — Obama Video Address: August 22, 2009

  1. So many errors in judgment by the blog owner, so little time.

    With respect to Bulbous Ted, you confuse effective and dedicated service with self-servitude, false piety, a sense of entitlement, and longevity. Ted Kennedy and Robert Byrd were a disgrace long before their time was up. While I certainly don’t wish death on anyone, Ted Kennedy was no one to be admired. He won’t be missed by anyone not too many months from now, except those wishing to keep the false premise of Camelot alive – and they too are dying off quickly.

    Rutherford, you can’t be naive enough to believe that when health care is rationed by government officials, it won’t invariably lead to promotion of euthanasia. That is exactly what has happened with respect to Western Europe’s socialized programs – and is exactly the failed model Libs wish to follow. 😉

  2. I don’t see how his death isn’t already politicized. GOP bloggers are already calling his disgusting, happy he’s gone blah blah blah. Limbaugh even made a ridiculous statement about how the health care plan is an insult to Ted Kennedy’s legacy. GOPers are trying to use him against health care reform. The irony is too much. It’s ridiculous but not surprising.

    I’m not trying to be annoyingly “America’s the Best” but I really don’t like the fact of republicans comparing our system to that of other countries. We have a completely different way of doing things here. We can’t be like Europe or Russia. Russia sucks at almost everything whether government run or not, even looking to them as what bad could possibly happen just amounts to a bunch of oxymoron statements. People in Europe are happy to defend their NHS anyways. But we have employer based health care, they don’t we are working from a different vantage point.

    Funny how republicans scream tort reform but none of their senators would even for vote for it if added to the bill. Doesn’t matter how much Obama debunks the rumors, the crazies will come out clinging to their one line conspiracy theories like flies to a piece of $hit.

    This country is f-ed up, even a confused transgendered person vandalized an OFA office. I hope s/he doesn’t expect the republican party to stand up for s/he. Church leader, supposed man of faith is in church saying Obama should die. I hope his tax-exemption is taken away. There are nuts out there that only want to bring down this country.

    oh, that felt good to release, sorry in advance Rutherford lol

  3. It’ll be funny to see how everyone goes to their perspective corners when this health care debate is over and the country goes back to normal after health care bill passes.
    Wasn’t the world supposed to end once Obama got elected? Where’s Glenn Beck’s magic 8-ball now? GOPers are acting the same way they did when they saw the prospects of Obama entering into the white house. After the election they settled down and realized nothing disastrous has happened, same thing will happen here.

    Now I’m done

  4. “This country is f-ed up, even a confused transgendered person vandalized an OFA office. I hope s/he doesn’t expect the republican party to stand up for s/he.”

    You forgot add it was a demomarxist.

    “Church leader, supposed man of faith is in church saying Obama should die. I hope his tax-exemption is taken away. ”

    Like Thuggy’s church?

    “There are nuts out there that only want to bring down this country.”

    Like Thuggy and the demomarxist leaders.

  5. “Be that as it may, Kennedy himself would probably be quite pleased if his death “guilted” the opposition into cooperating with reform.”

    Of course he would, the POS dying wish was a wish to change a law he himself got changed a few years ago. The man had no morals.

  6. The new motivation should be “Do It For Ted!” Obama needs to stop trying to appease Republicans and do what’s best for America.

    Ben, welcome to the RL blog. I’m still a bit queasy about exploiting Kennedy’s death for any political reasons but I do agree with you on the appeasement. Obama needs to stop playing the bipartisan game and just get stuff done.

  7. How come will do a eulogy for the Swimmer but couldnt for the typical white woman Grandmother that helped raise him?

    LOL, as usual Elric your idiocy knows no bounds.

    Obama’s grandmother died the Sunday before Election Day. Neither he nor his sister Maya were able to attend the funeral but sent a jointly written letter that served as the eulogy at the service.

    You wouldn’t know any of this since American “Thinker”, JihadWatch and Weasel Zippers probably didn’t cover it.

    Open the blinds, let some light shine in, and read something different for a change.

    http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/11/obamas-grandmot.html

  8. If it were your daughter, would you have forgave him Dodger?

    Now this will really burn your shorts Elric, but if Mary Jo had been my daughter, I would have been very angry with Senator Kennedy but I also would have been wondering what my right-minded, straight thinking daughter was doing in a car with a married man late at night, particularly once I learned that my daughter had left the keys to her own hotel room behind at the party she and the Senator had attended.

    So my answer is: Kennedy would have been far from heroic in my book but I also would have mourned the fact that my daughter exercised such poor judgment in her final hours.

    (OK the Kevlar vest is on … I know this comment will inspire an onslaught from DR, Tex and the rest. Bring it on.)

  9. You didnt answer if you would have forgave him for letting your daughter drown. But Im not surprised you dodged the question.

    And wow a written letter, how noble of him. But seeing how he treats other members of his family, Im not surprised.

  10. Spencer: British Lion Muzzled

    LionMuzzled_hh_2.jpg

    In “British Lion Muzzled,” the featured article at Human Events today, I tell some stories from my recent trip to London — stories about how Britain is succumbing to Islamic supremacism:

    […] Unrecognized inside the mosques we were able to enter, I was warmly received as a potential convert and laden with books and pamphlets explaining the wonders of Islam — including, courtesy the Finsbury Park Mosque, a copy of the Koran with illuminating commentary: “The purpose for which the Muslims are required to fight,” we’re told, “is not, as one might think, to compel the unbelievers into embracing Islam.”

    Feel better? Don’t. “Rather, its purpose is to put an end to the suzerainty of the unbelievers so that the latter are unable to rule over people. The authority to rule should only be vested in those who follow the Truth Faith; unbelievers who do not follow this True Faith should live in a state of subordination.” So much for liberty and justice for all.

    The current state of Britain came most clearly into focus, however, not when we visited the mosques, but when we tried to have dinner. I had an illuminating dinner with a group including the notable British author and freedom fighter Douglas Murray that turned out to offer a bracing introduction to British dhimmitude: the dinner had to be moved at the last minute since the proprietors of the George Restaurant in the aptly-named Isle of Dogs district of London didn’t like us discussing jihad and Islamization on the premises. This was despite the fact that the dinner had been planned to be on-camera and had been cleared with the George in advance.

    In fact, when I returned to the George the next night with the producers of the film, we were not allowed entry because the previous night we had been discussing jihad and Islamic supremacism.

    Were the proprietors of the George Restaurant hard-line Leftists who viewed jihadists as their allies in the struggle against American imperialism? Or were they frightened by the prospect of the local Muslims, who live in that area in considerable numbers, exacting revenge against the place for daring to host a meeting of the Resistance?

    Most likely they were afraid of their own government, which frowns upon those who question the wisdom or viability of the multicultural paradise they are intent upon creating. For when we finally tried to assemble in another place a roundtable of concerned British citizens to discuss the problem of the Islamization of Britain, one by one the British participants dropped out. If they appeared on camera, we were told, the government could and probably would threaten their livelihood.

    If the British government makes the stakes too high for its own people to speak publicly against the policies that have brought into Britain thousands of people intent upon destroying the British state and imposing Islamic law, then all is nearly lost.

    It’s no wonder that British citizens are turning to noxious racist parties like the BNP: the elites have abandoned them. This is a time for the British people to summon untapped resources of courage, and for the British government to recover its vision. Otherwise all will be lost, and soon.

    Read it all.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027366.php#respond

  11. “Now this will really burn your shorts Elric, but if Mary Jo had been my daughter, I would have been very angry with Senator Kennedy but I also would have been wondering what my right-minded, straight thinking daughter was doing in a car with a married man late at night, particularly once I learned that my daughter had left the keys to her own hotel room behind at the party she and the Senator had attended.”-Rutherford

    You’re a liar that sometimes lacks the remotest amount of empathy. To say that somehow the girl “brought it on” is disgusting.

    She might not even had much of a choice in the matter. Who knows.

    There are very few events that should have so much power that they define a man.

    Murder is one of those few events. Murder without justice, mind you.

    Just imagine looking back at that water, the bubbles coming up from the car, and not reporting a thing for 10 hours.

    He never paid his dues because he was a member of the aristocracy. A fat frat boy who could take anything he wanted. He didn’t report that woman missing becuase he was a sociopath.

    Your sexist defense of Kennedy, in which some of the blame is directed at his victim, shows you to be the piece of garbage you really are.

    To think you have a daughter and still make a comment like that to score some points on your blog, makes you to be almost evil.

    You either have no idea what its like to lose someone, do not have the emotional maturity needed to conceive how angry you would be or don’t love your own daughter.

    You’re a fucking sexist scum bag. That woman was a real person.

  12. And another thing. This goes out to Republicans and Democrats. I’m so sick of hearing how a “life time” in Congress makes someone such a hero.

    Yeah, getting your ass kissed everywhere you go, eating like a king, making hundreds of thousands of dollars flying around on a private Jet makes someone a hero.

    These lifetime politicians can kiss the Rabbit’s cotton tail ass.

    “Commitment to public service”…what a joke.

    Being a dog catcher for 30 years is a commitment to public service.

    Being a senator that long is commitment to thievery.

    Term limits for all of them!

  13. DR,

    I used to be opposed to term limits because its not very free market. But then, I realized that these jerks in Washington make decisions that affect everyone, not just their state. I have no say so if scumbags like Kennedy get elected or not.

    So we do need term limits for any Federal elected position.

  14. * The new bill will federally fund abortions — BUNK

    Really? How much do you want to bet abortions will end up being federally funded.

    * The new bill will make it easier for illegal aliens to get free health care — BUNK

    Really? The House Republicans tried to add wording in the bill specifically stopping illegals fro getting free health care. The Dems shot it down.

    * The new bill is a total takeover of the health care system — BUNK

    Really? Obama himself said that this bill is exactly the road he will take for a total health care takeover. OBAMA’S OWN WORDS!

    Rutherford. You never did explain how we are going to pay for it.

    The bill sucks. 1000 pages of unintelligible cryptology.

    I’m not trusting any politician when it comes to that clusterfuck of syntax.

    I’m hoping we have town hall meeting for now on every time they come out with these kind of bills.

    They might not read the bills, but we are!

  15. DR,

    And lets not forget that the so called 47 million without insurance includes illegal aliens. Why would they add them in that statistic if they dont plan on adding them to the insured?

  16. Dead Rabbit … now tell me how you really feel.

    I’ve got a grim reality for you my friend. If you don’t teach your kids to stay out of trouble and instead depend totally on the kindness of friends and strangers to get through life, then your kid is f*cked. I’ll tell you that right now. If I’m not mistaken, you have a boy on the way. But I’m telling you, if you had a girl on the way and you were not planning to raise that girl to understand she has no business in a married man’s car (probably drunk) late at night, then you ought to just quit while you’re ahead … give the kid up for adoption right away cos you won’t be parenting worth a sh*t.

    Kennedy’s money and privilege, which helped him get off the hook on this, has you pissed … and rightfully so. But let’s roll it back a bit. You’re gonna tell me if your little bunny survived a car crash while in the car with a married man under dubious circumstances, you wouldn’t want to beat the crap out of her once she got out of the hospital?

    Everybody has to operate on personal responsibility. Kennedy’s behavior was despicable. The girl’s behavior which got her killed was questionable at best. That is all I am saying.

    Again, I repeat, if you plan on your kids always being the victim, devoid of any responsibility for the situations in which they find themselves, cash in your chips right now.

  17. Obama’s counterterror strategy: Release jihadists, investigate CIA

    Yet another Which-Side-Is-Obama-On Alert: “Release the Terrorist, Investigate the CIA,” by Andy McCarthy at The Corner, August 27:

    The Wall Street Jounral [sic] has a terrific editorial this morning on how valuable the CIA interrogation program was in uncovering life-saving intelligence. My favorite paragraph was this one, which gets into the terrorist the mainstream press doesn’t want to talk about, Binyam Mohammed (see my column on him, here):

    The most revealing portion of the IG report documents the program’s results. The CIA’s “detention and interrogation of terrorists has provided intelligence that has enabled the identification and apprehension of other terrorists and warned of terrorist plots planned for the United States and around the world.” That included the identification of Jose Padilla and Binyam Muhammed, who planned to detonate a dirty bomb, and the arrest of previously unknown members of an al Qaeda cell in Karachi, Pakistan, designated to pilot an aircraft attack in the U.S. The information also made the CIA aware of plots to attack the U.S. consulate in Karachi, hijack aircraft to fly into Heathrow, loosen track spikes to derail a U.S. train, blow up U.S. gas stations, fly an airplane into a California building, and cut the lines of suspension bridges in New York.

    Though the Journal does not get into it, Binyam Mohammed was released outright by the Obama administration in February. He is now living freely in England. That’s our new counterterrorism approach: Release the terrorist who planned mass-murder attacks against U.S. cities but investigate the CIA agents who prevented mass-murder attacks against U.S. cities….

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027372.php#respond

    I think once he bowed deeply to the Saudi king it was quite clear whose side Thuggy is on.

  18. R has a point, maybe you should write a parenting book for the Rabbits of the world.

    Forgive Rutherford’s sanctimonious horseshit – liberals talk a great game about forgiveness, personal responsibility and savvy, but when something happens to them, are the first to go apoplectic over anything not suiting their fancy. Case in point, public schools where little libbie Johnny can do no wrong, even if he is a crack addict.

    Unfortunately, even if “R” does pen a Dr. Spock book about parenting, it will unfortunately be too late for Sensico’s parents. Of course, there’s always that chance that happens every once in a while where contrary to the best of intentions of the parents, a bad seed still slips in. 😉

  19. “And another drone who wont answer a simple question.”
    Whats the question?
    btw, my parents did a great job with me. I caught some teens in Troy, MI smoking weed past curfew I assume. These kids have everything except good parents to teach them right from wrong. Parenting is key, and if you don’t teach them responsibility then they end up living off the government and going to the meth lab down the street. This is a warning, you don’t have to be the parent of “that” crackhead lol.

  20. “and if you don’t teach them responsibility”

    Like allowing a woman to drown and then not get punished for it? My what a great role model the demomarxists have.

  21. Yeah Rutherford. So the girl with the mini-skirt
    “wanted” it. Does “No” means “Yes”? You would fit right in at a Kennedy party.

    I used to think I was a pretty nasty guy. I’m learning that even in my days of rambling, I’m nowhere near as fucked up as you people in the liberal intelligentsia.

    Kennedy kills a girl in a drunken stupor and doesn’t even have the decency to get help. Just lets her die. 30 years later he is breaking glass tables by slamming waitresses down. Remember, the “waitress sandwich?

    His behavior never changed. He had no remorse.

    Talk about a red herring from hell. The secretary might have been slutty.

    Rutherford, I read your “personal responsibility” bit and still can’t figure out what that had to do with the sociopath slinking off into the night, letting that car fill with water.

    If there is a hell, that fat frat boy is doing time.

    As for the hero worship of these crooks in Congress, give me a break.

    You know where my senator is right now? Debbie Stabenow? No, she isn’t bailing her husband out of jail for soliciting a prostitute. Besides, they pressed `charges against the prostitute, not him. (big surprise)

    She’s taking an Alaskan cruise on the tax dollar dime!

    It’s a fact finding mission for global warming, you see.

    I don’t know why she needs to do this. This is the same person that told us all she can “feel” global warming when she flies. The turbulence. (True story)

    Besides, she doesn’t need to go all the way to beautiful Alaska to see receding glaciers. Just look at the Great Lakes. They are the result of retreating glaciers!

  22. “I don’t know why she needs to do this. This is the same person that told us all she can “feel” global warming when she flies. The turbulence. (True story)”

    I posted it here.

  23. Hey sensico, maybe he meant this question that you clearly dodged in the last thread.

    “Anyways, thats my take on it and I stand by my first statement.”-sensico

    Oops. I didn’t read that sentence. You stand by your first statement? Really?

    This one?

    “No one WANTS abortions to happen. The issue is with safety and preventing violence by or on the mother.”-sensico

    Despite the awkwardness in your choice of words (violence?) I showed you reliable data showing why people get abortions.

    sensico, very, very few abortions have anything to do with safety.

    Let me say it again. MOST PEOPLE GET ABORTIONS FOR LIFESTYLE REASONS.

    I’m talking like 93% of all abortions here. So, tell me, exactly how do you “stand by” your first comment?

  24. I know he didn’t mean that question. Anyways, if your facts are correct it still doesn’t mean anything. So we abandon a procedure just because the majority doesn’t get abortion due to violence or rape? Well, lets abandon a lot of things then, how about abandoning autism treatment, cause ya know, the majority of American kids don’t have autism. Lets abandon paralysis treatment, cause ya know, the majority of accidents dont result in paralysis 🙄

    We all wish abortion didn’t have to happen, that statement is not contradictory with support for abortion. Unfortunately, just stopping a womens right to choose doesn’t solve anything and will put more people at risk when they go on the black market to get abortion. In a perfect world, we wouldn’t have abortions, but sorry to tell you, this world ain’t perfect girlfriend HA!

  25. “So we abandon a procedure just because the majority doesn’t get abortion due to violence or rape? Well, lets abandon a lot of things then, how about abandoning autism treatment, cause ya know, the majority of American kids don’t have autism. Lets abandon paralysis treatment, cause ya know, the majority of accidents dont result in paralysis”-sensico

    lol…..

    thanks sensico.

  26. I think some of the most annoying people online are those that know what you mean but prefer to twist words.

    LOL … that fits Elric’s modus operandi to a tee. Hilarious. Like when I accidentally wrote civil rights instead of human rights and then he quotes me knowing precisely what I meant to say.

    It’s the arsenal of folks who are low on real ammo. 😉

  27. Forgive Rutherford’s sanctimonious horseshit

    LOL … funny that the only horse-dung I smell right now is coming from my buddy Tex.

    Tex, unlike Rabbit, you DO have a daughter. Now I don’t know you that well, but from all the exchanges we’ve had, I figure one of two things is true:

    1. Daughter has Daddy Tex wrapped around her finger and does whatever she wants.

    2. Tex tows a pretty hard line and daughter has a damn good idea of what the expectations of behavior are.

    My bet is on option 2. Tell me I’m wrong.

  28. “It’s the arsenal of folks who are low on real ammo. ;-)”

    That would explain why you dodge every post I post about Thuggy and his destruction of this nation.

  29. It Has Begun. State-Run Media Refuses to Run TV Ads Critical of Obamacare

    If this is true, bravo to ABC.

    It’s a dumbass commercial. We can’t insure more people because we don’t have enough doctors? So we should discourage people from seeking medical help because we don’t have enough doctors. Wow, guess that nips health care reform in the bud then.

    Stupid, real stupid.

  30. Case in point. here is something else for Dodger to avoid.

    Clinton Considering Signing Determination That Honduras’ Actions Were A Coup D’Etat. . .

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/08/youve-got-to-be-shitting-me-clinton-considering-signing-determination-that-honduras-actions-were-a-c.html#comments

    Wont do shit about Iran, its rigged election and the brutality it inflicted afterwards but will take action against Honduras because it prevented Thuggy’s friend from taking power.

    Come on Dodger, defend yourThug in Chief for once instead of hiding like you always do.

  31. LOL While I’m at it …. talk about rationing!!!! We don’t have enough doctors so lets make it hard for people to pay for their medical care. We’ll weed the poor out of the system in a natural way so we have just enough patients for our available doctors.

    I call that rationing.

  32. How about we ration out the illegals and trial lawyers? That make too much sense? Oh wait, the Dems are “afraid” of the trial lawyers so we cant do that.

  33. “If this is true, bravo to ABC.”-R

    I was about to say you make a valid point, and actually have a conversation, then I read that statement.

    You see, this is why most of America, including the Rabbit, do not trust you liberals.

    The stifling of free speech and our media being hijacked by any administration, my views on the actual message notwithstanding, sucks.

    You get so caught up in your little politics, Rutherford, you forget how to be a real American.

  34. Things I’ve learned from liberals today:

    When assessing the guilt of Ted Kennedy, one must consider the girl he was with and if she was being promiscuous or not. If she was, then surely she should share some of the blame. (Rutherford Harvard University)

    Even though only a few percent of abortions have anything to do with rape or medical risks to the mother, abortion must remain mainstream because we offer treatment to those with paralysis. After all, not everyone has paralysis, yet medical help exists for those who are paralyzed. (Sensico Wayne State University)

    Awesome work guys.

  35. DR,

    And we really dont have enough doctors. Why do you think so many are foreigners? We would have more if we got rid of the trial lawyers so students would be more enticed to go into the medical field. And of course weeding out the illegals would free up more doctors as well.

    And why is ABC taking the role of the health care message? Are they going to refuse ads from a car company if the model isnt fuel efficient enough to their liking?

  36. oh please, another reason why I won’t be answering questions is
    11) Republicans like, Rabbit (The Corner Store University) can’t understand simple analogies.

    So weird how you think ABC & NBC should air these ads yet want to give Not-American 😯 speech. They’re private owned companies it’s they’re constitutional right to be able to decide what ads they run or don’t run. Do you think it’s AMERICAN to tell business owners what decisions to make?

    I just saw the ad, there were blatant lies in it and one should notice that they only reference 2 conservative publications. If ABC and NBC don’t want people lying on their station then I don’t see the problem. I personally don’t care, ads that lie aren’t out the ordinary on network television, I just think they’re finally showing some journalistic integrity by not showing the ad. The ad was bad though, probably would scare grandma.

  37. Ok sensico, I will explain it very simply for you. Your analogy made no sense because the millions upon millions of people who don’t have paralysis aren’t forced to go under paralysis treatment. See how stupid it was?

    “Do you think it’s AMERICAN to tell business owners what decisions to make?”

    Valid question this time, sensico. I believe it to be dangerous for the media to actively take the position of those in power to the point of censoring people solely due to their opinion. But, ultimately, your probably right.

    However, I don’t think it’s cool. I don’t think Rutherford should either.

    I find it particularity scary that this is happening during a time when liberals are calling for the censoring of ideas on AM Radio. Fairness my ass. And, after reading the question you pose, I can only infer that you agree with me.

    I haven’t seen the advertisement. However, I’ve never seen you question a thing from this administration. You spend your time posting videos of people at town hall meetings or recapping Obama’s exact words and taking them as gospel.

  38. “Do you think it’s AMERICAN to tell business owners what decisions to make?”

    Like Thuggy with the banks and car companies? Or telling private companies they cant drill but will shell out tax payer money for Brazil to drill? Ohhh the hypocrisy.

  39. And no one is forced to get an abortion…so there you have it. I actually had more to write but I’m over it.

    Assuming you mean the fairness doctrine, I was asked to support it and presented some material. I only read a little bit of the material in support of the fairness doctrine and it wasn’t something I cared to support.

    At the same time, we don’t need hate mongering race baiting extremists having their own radio shows. But, it’s their business and ultimately it’s about money. Republicans feed off this hate mongering mentality they just keep revisiting these stations like flies to garbage 🙂

    I have little to oppose Obama on, don’t fault me just because I agree with the guy. The main reason I supported him over Clinton was because of his health care plan not being universal. Maybe in the future when health care arguments are over with then I can think of something to oppose him on.

  40. The baby is forced. But, since you are pro-life, I will assume that you don’t regard a baby in a woman’s stomach as a life. Fair enough.

    I wasn’t arguing abortion with you. I was taking issue with your premise. You said abortion exists due to medical issues. That simply isn’t true.

    I proved that to be incorrect but you continue making yourself look like a buffoon.

    Abortion exists so that people aren’t inconvenienced.

    Now, you can be pro-life or pro-choice.

    But the facts are the facts.

    By the way, a small percentage of people need morphine due to pain. How come, following your logic, we don’t let everyone take morphine?

    Your analogy makes no sense because people who are not paralyzed don’t CHOOSE to get paralysis treatment. I got “forced” out of there.

  41. “At the same time, we don’t need hate mongering race baiting extremists having their own radio show.”

    The only ones race baiting is your side

  42. So we abandon a procedure just because the majority doesn’t get abortion due to violence or rape? Well, lets abandon a lot of things then, how about abandoning autism treatment, cause ya know, the majority of American kids don’t have autism. Lets abandon paralysis treatment, cause ya know, the majority of accidents dont result in paralysis…” — Sensico

    No, we control a procedure because it takes a human life. What part of death don’t you understand? Someone dies when an abortion is done- period. So, rather than make up incrtedibly stupid comparisons like these, why don’t we simply take a common sense approach to the premise that this procedure will take a life, and probably should require a little scruteny in how it is employed.

    It is these statements, Sensico, that completely remove even the remotest semblance of credibility you might have hoped to have.

  43. Frankly, I don’t believe you. With what, 96% voting for him, I think there are other motivating factors here.

    Besides, I don’t think you could articulate Obama’s Health care plan. He certainly can’t…

  44. Just played the banned advertisement.

    Holy crap. That is what you guys are crying about? Where are the lies????????

    Wow. I was expecting some outrageous Nazi stuff.

    Where are the lies?

    Are you kidding me? Those are all valid concerns. I’ll defy sensico or Rutherford to prove those concerns are “lies”.

    (Because Obama said so doesn’t count)

    Rutherford already admitted today that medical care will have to be rationed. Just rationed differently.

    Man. I can’t believe ABC banned that.

  45. 800lb Gorilla, if you ever want a laugh, click on sensico’s name and go to her blog.

    it’s so bubble gum dumb, you will want to head butt your computer screen.

  46. Rutherford I am equal parts shocked,disgusted,saddened and disappointed in your analysis of Mary Jo K’s actions those many years ago. Your assumptions on her state of mind,intent and possibilities is mind blowing.
    As for illegals and healthcare etc. Which bill is on the discussion block here. if it’s 3200 illegals are not covered per sec 246 as per pg 143 Abortion isn’t listed. As for R’s other two points I’d stress that on the logical economics side of the coin those points have valid concerns and are not bunk.
    Sensico not to pile on but you said:

    I have little to oppose Obama on, don’t fault me just because I agree with the guy. The main reason I supported him over Clinton was because of his health care plan not being universal. Maybe in the future when health care arguments are over with then I can think of something to oppose him on.

    So actually you don’t support Obama now?

  47. Disgrace: State Dept ready to cut off millions in aid to Honduras over “military coup”
    posted at 8:20 pm on August 27, 2009 by Allahpundit
    Share on Facebook | printer-friendly

    This would be the same “coup” that was ordered by the country’s supreme court pursuant to its constitution and carried out with the support of the legislature, including members of Zelaya’s own party. Hillary’s held off on using that terminology until now because by law she’ll have to cut funding to Honduras once the formal assessment is made, but it looks like the moment of truth is at hand. It’s a travesty, but what do you expect? Obama’s hot to prove to the world’s tyrants that, unlike his cowboy predecessor, he’s a man they can do business with. And he’s invested enough political capital in this horrible decision by now — maneuvering to block Zelaya’s ouster before it happened, calling it “illegal” after it did, and slowly turning up the pressure ever since — that he’d lose face if he relented and embraced the new president. So here we are:

    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/27/disgrace-state-dept-ready-to-cut-off-millions-in-aid-to-honduras-over-military-coup/

    Can you explain Dodger why Thuggy gave Iran a free pass but is ready to shaft Honduras? Can you explain why Thuggy always sides and surrounds himself with thugs and despots? Ohh and we cant forget his deep respectful bow to the Saudi king. And of course you are an intellectual coward and wont respond.

  48. When assessing the guilt of Ted Kennedy…

    Ah, that is where you’ve missed the boat Rabbit. This is not about assessing the guilt of Ted Kennedy. This is about what a parent’s perspective of the event should be. That perspective should be, “damn that Ted Kennedy” combined with “what the hell was my daughter doing in that car?”

    I’m amazed that pure common sense (like that argued in the Michele Bachmann case in the prior thread) is being protested here.

    Let’s take Kennedy out of it.

    Case 1: Guy is driving down the road (possibly inebriated) and girl is walking or biking down same road minding her business. Guy hits girl, sees she is not getting up off the ground, and drives away anyway. Finally reports accident 10 hours later.

    Case 2: Married guy and girl are partying. Guy offers to drive girl to her hotel (but she interestingly leaves her hotel keys at the party). Girl, not caring in the least how things might appear, voluntarily gets in car with married guy. Accident happens. Girl dies. Guy spends next 10 hours covering his ass. Guy is scumbag. Girl, without anyone putting gun to her head, got in car voluntarily with married guy, with likely intent to have sex with him. Girl knows guy’s reputation.

    Rabbit, please tell me girl in scenario 1 is the same as girl in scenario 2.

    Again, there is something in the conservative mindset that prevents conservatives from acknowledging complexity. In the conservative mind, to acknowledge that Kopechne exercised poor judgment is tantamount to letting Kennedy off the hook. The conservative mind cannot seem to hold both thoughts in the same brain, namely that Kennedy acted like a coward at best, and a sociopathic scumbag at worst AND Mary Jo had no business in that car. These can both be true at the same time.

  49. Regarding the abortion debate, let me throw one more ingredient into the mix.

    Rabbit, the day I hear leading women’s rights groups take a stand against abortion, I might fall in line. But it really blows me away how a bunch of people with penises think they can legislate issues related to pregnancy. When enlightened women line up around the block to overturn Roe v. Wade, then perhaps we can begin the debate anew. Until then, I have a simple word of advice for men who care so much about the rights of the unborn.

    Use a rubber or keep your dick in your pants.

  50. I’ll defy sensico or Rutherford to prove those concerns are “lies”.

    Like I said earlier in the thread, I wouldn’t carry the ad, not because of any lies, but because it is just plain stupid. The ads basic premise is that any health care reform has to wait until we have more doctors. Purely asinine.

  51. Economic success? Really, things getting better?

    Another example of what I said earlier, the inability of conservatives to handle any degree of nuance. Did I ever say happy days are here again? We were on the brink of a depression and a full blown financial collapse last September. The actions of Bush at the very end, and the Obama administration pulled us back from the edge of the cliff. The stock market, among other indicators, suggests the rate of decline is slowing, And it is acknowledged by all who follow economic downturns that employment is always the last thing to recover.

    Just to hammer this home with elementary arithmetic:

    -10 + 5 = -5

    The result of the sum is still negative but it is an improvement. We can’t get above zero, without negative numbers getting smaller and smaller.

    So I take it, that until every economic indicator is in the plus column, conservatives will say Obama has done nothing. It defies understanding of simple arithmetic. What about “slowing of decline” do you not understand?

  52. I am equal parts shocked,disgusted,saddened and disappointed in your analysis of Mary Jo K’s actions

    Well, Alfie I consider you a pretty reasonable man so I am sorry I’ve disappointed you.

    I find it interesting that the hard liners on this forum accuse me of wanting the government to coddle blacks. I am told that liberal policies have made blacks dependent. I am told that blacks are not expected to be held accountable for their own choices, etc.

    Yet isn’t it fascinating that women in this forum get a free pass. They are forever the victim and they never have any part in their own victimization. Rabbit mentioned the old “no means no” theme which says if I wave my breasts in your face and you grab one of them I get to cry harassment.

    Well I’ll tell you something. I have a daughter. She’s only five and a half right now. As she gets older, I will tell her that if she wants to play with the big boys, as she has every right to, then she better be realistic about it.

    At our core, men and women are f*cking machines. That is the animal in us. As a result, men and women abide by certain norms, certain rules, that keep this sexuality at bay and avoid problems. We do this in a number of ways, from the way we dress, to the situations we allow ourselves to be in.

    The reason prostitutes don’t wear turtle necks is they are advertising their bodies for a specific purpose. Similarly, executive women don’t wear V necks down to their navel because they are advertising different attributes (their intellect, their power, etc.).

    I say to all you guys who have daughters, who make the “she wasn’t looking for it when she dressed like a tramp” argument, what are you comfortable with your daughter wearing? Well I can speak for myself and when my daughter gets older she will not be wearing mini-skirts with her tits out to THERE. Why? Because how you dress and how you conduct yourself says volumes about you. If you don’t know that, then you are a dumbass.

    Do I know every detail of the Chappaquiddick incident? No, Is it possible that Kennedy dragged Mary Jo kicking and screaming into his car? Yes. That is not what even the most critical reports say about the incident. On the surface, the woman got into a car alone with a married man late at night. It is something I would advise my daughter NOT to do. Period.

  53. Ohhhh, and before anyone else goes there … I am not so naive to believe that dressing and behaving conservatively is a surefire way to avoid getting harassed or worse, raped. I am not saying that every woman who gets harassed or worse, was “asking for it”. I am saying that dressing and behaving a certain way, can at least minimize the odds of getting into hot water. Once again, common sense gentlemen, common sense.

  54. Wow … something just hit me. Women who want an abortion are irresponsible sluts who don’t want their lives inconvenienced but women who accept rides from philandering married men late at night are saints beyond suspicion.

    It must be fun to live in your world. You have truly re-written the laws of logic and reason. 😉

  55. Save your finger wagging about the Rabbit not being “nuanced.” I want to barf on you with that crap.

    The fact that the girl might or might not be a slut has nothing to do with Kennedy’s actions. Since we are talking about Kennedy’s legacy and NOT the girl’s, your “nuances” don’t mean shit, smart guy.

    I’ll tell you what Rutherford, when the whole country reflects on the life of Kopechne, I will eagerly await for your nuanced reflections on the girl.

    Most women are pro-life. Do you really think that leading feminists groups reflect the entire demographic of American women? Or are they just more important? And, do you think women who do not ascribe to such groups to be unenlightened?

    Mrs. Rabbit is pro-life. She devours at least 5 audio books a week. Mrs. Rabbit can be a real nag every now and again. But she is not ignorant. I didn’t give a damn about abortions until she taught me what they really are and why 90% of people get them.

    Just look at sensico. Did you see her arguments for abortion? Does that concern you to see someone argue from such an ignorant starting position?

  56. “Wow … something just hit me. Women who want an abortion are irresponsible sluts who don’t want their lives inconvenienced but women who accept rides from philandering married men late at night are saints beyond suspicion.

    It must be fun to live in your world. You have truly re-written the laws of logic and reason”-Rutherford

    LOL.

    Not one person called all women who need an abortion sluts. Not one person.

    Not one person called Kopechne a saint beyond suspicion. Not one person.

    WTF are you talking about dude?

    You’re the sick bastard who thought an analysis of Kopechne’s ethical code is relevant when judging Kennedy’s actions that night.

    Why don’t you just admit that you were “stretching” things a bit due to some gut reaction to defend a fellow liberal and that the promiscuity of the girl has no bearing when judging Kennedy?

    It’s no big deal, Rutherford. You don’t have to fight every little thing on here to death, dude.

    Or, continue on looking like a complete jack ass. I’m sure I will show up the next day on your blog anyways.

  57. MALLOY (1:30): Good evening, truthseekers, Mike Malloy here, thanks for tuning in…you know as well as I know that the death of Senator Ted Kennedy is the death of a man, absolutely, and everything he was to the people in his extended family, but we also understand it’s the death of an era, one of the remaining, if not THE remaining lynchpin of liberalism in this country is gone.

    Aand you know what the term lynchpin means. So with the death of Ted Kennedy last night, liberalism in this country has lost its champion; the person who, in the modern era, personified liberalism to a greater degree than anyone in Congress; I think that his death heralds the beginning of a very, very very dark period in this country.

    I remember feeling that way in 1963 and in 1968-when his two brothers were murdered by the right wing in this country.

    http://radioequalizer.blogspot.com/2009/08/libtalker-kennedy-brothers-killed-by.html

    I can see why talk radio is a failure for the left.

  58. “I still think the ultimate reaction would have been of forgiveness.”

    Still waiting for your reaction if it had been your daughter. Would it had been of forgiveness?

  59. You’re the sick bastard who thought an analysis of Kopechne’s ethical code is relevant when judging Kennedy’s actions that night.

    I guess my mistake was trying to answer one of Elric’s 999 questions.

    Elric specifically asked me (comment 5) “If it were your daughter, would you have forgave him Dodger?” I attempted to answer the question from the perspective of a parent, which was that while Kennedy’s behavior might have sickened me, I also would have questioned the conduct of my daughter. Then an onslaught of sh*t hit the comments section. Elric asked me to judge Kennedy from the perspective of a parent. How can I do that if I don’t take into account the actions of both parties?

    The main post was about Kennedy, not Kopechne and you’ll notice I did not use her as an excuse in the main post to let Teddy off the hook. On the contrary, I presented what I considered to be an interesting paradox that a man could serve his country with dedication and be the worst type of cad.

  60. There’s one other comment that I did not address. I think it was DR who said he’s sick and tired of hearing about dedicated legislators.Good God, with all the damn distrust of government in this forum, why don’t you guys just go start your own anarchist web site? I mean really. Kennedy was instrumental in getting young girls equal rights in school sports (title 9) and getting 18 year olds the right to vote, among other things. The man was a hard working accomplished legislator and yes, hard working legislator is not an oxymoron despite the number of politicians who may have disappointed you in the past.

  61. As for abortion vis-a-vis the women’s movement, are you saying Rabbit that the women’s movement is ignoring the preferences of the great majority of women? That preference being choice, not abortion, but choice.

    I guess the answer I will get is the women’s movement has been hijacked by demo-marxist liberals. Or as I guess Tex would call them, “hairy-arm-pitted hags”. I seem to recall him making that kind of reference in a previous exchange. 😉

  62. It is no doubt that Ted Kennedy’s life is filled with personal failures and he was often reckless in his younger days, but from seeing the level of hatred spewed in the past several days from those who intently disliked him it begs the question, is this what passes for conservatism these days?

    These conservatives on this blog have called Kennedy a POS (peace of shit), and a disgrace instead of stepping back and taking a measure of the man and realize that he did not shy away from the tragedies of his life. My dad always said it takes a thousand back slapping “atta-boys” to make up for one “aw-shit”. A man can fuck up over and over, but he owns his mistakes and learns from them. It can be said that Ted Kennedy wore his flaws openly in his personal life. It can also be said that Ted Kennedy was an outstanding legislator and the bipartisan compromise was a key aspect of Kennedy’s legacy. Yet you want to address the far more pressing issue of whether or not Ted Kennedy killed Mary Jo Kopechne back at Chappaquiddick all those decades ago. Didn’t Kennedy ask the people of Massachusetts if they wanted him to quit? It is clear that Americans did not want him as President but that the people of Massachusetts wanted to keep him in the Senate. I wonder why they wanted to keep him? Could it be that they knew he had done, and would continue to do great things (atta-boys) for the working people of America?

    • The Mental Health Parity Act of 1996
    • State Children’s Health Insurance Program (S-CHIP)
    • Edward M. Kennedy Serve America Act of 2009 (Americorps)
    • The Civil Rights Act of 1964
    • The Voting Rights Act of 1965
    • Family and Medical Leave Act of 1993
    • Fair Housing Act of 1968
    • Handicapped Children’s Protection Act of 1986 (overturning a SCOTUS decision)
    • Ryan White Care Act of 1990 (AIDS care)
    • Americans with Disability Act of ’90
    • Civil Rights Act of 1991
    • Minority Health & Health Disparities Research & Education Act of 2000
    • National & Community Service Trust Act of 1993 (Americorps)
    • Mammography Quality Standards Act of 1990
    • Military Child Care Act of 1989
    • The WARN Act of 1988 (60 days notice prior to plant closings)
    • Employment Opportunities for Disabled Americans Act of 1986
    • Anti-Apartheid Act of 1986 (vetoed by Reagan)
    • Job Training Partnership Act of 1980
    • Refugee Act of 1980
    • Civil Rights of Institutionalized Persons Act of 1980
    • Individuals with Disabilities in Education Act – 1975
    • Title IX of Education Amendments of ’72 (bans sex discrimination by schools getting Fed $)
    • Establishment of Women, Infants & Childrens (“WIC”) Nutrition Program at USDA
    • Low Income Heating Energy Assistance Act of 1970
    • Older American Community Service Employment Act of 1970
    • Occupational Safety & Health Administration Act of 1970
    • The Voting Rights Act amendments of 1970
    • The Bilingual Education Act of 1968
    • The Economic Opportunity Act of 1964 (War on Poverty: Head Start, Job Corps)
    • The Mental Health Parity Act of 1996

    I guess this will be just like the people of Louisiana who will have to judge whether or not a prostitute-loving David Vitter should go back and represent them. It’s that democracy thing don’t cha know.

    Maybe it isn’t the Right-wing hatred of Ted Kennedy that speaks for conservatives.

    Do the words of Pastor Steven Anderson of the Faithful Word Baptist Church in Arizona pass for conservatism these days?

    “The same God who instituted the death penalty for murders is the same god who instituted the death penalty for rapists and for homosexuals, sodomites and queers”

    “The sodomites are recruiters and you know who they are after? Your children. They are being recruited by the sodomites. They are being molested by the sodomites. They recruit through rape, they recruit through molestation, they recruit through violation”
    “Our country is run by faggots. You know who was the man who was the architect of the bailout? His name is Barney Frank, he is a pedophile…”
    “That’s who just sold our country into fascism. That’s who just sold our corporations to the government. That’s who sold out our country, a faggot!”
    “God Hates Barack Obama, I hate Barack Obama. I hate Him. God wants me to Hate Barack Obama.” “Someone who commits murder should get the death penalty.”

    Maybe it is these Tea Party patriots who proclaim themselves to be “…a proud right-wing terrorist.” which prompts Republican congressman to say, “Amen, God bless you. There is a great American.” Isn’t the threat of political violence real? Aren’t Right-wing activists showing up at presidential events with assault rifles, and making death threats against members of Congress, and painting swastikas on lawmakers’ signs?

    Are these the voices of modern day conservatism?

    Are conservatives proud that the guy who brought an AR-15 to that Obama event in Phoenix is a member of Pastor Steven Anderson’s Faithful Word Baptist Church? I don’t know why folks would get upset over that. So he listened to Pastor Anderson’s kill Obama sermon and then took an assault rifle to an Obama speech.

    Big deal.

  63. I bet Dodger would have got a kick out of that if it were his daughter.

    The site is called Weasel Zippers for a reason. It is run by lying, word twisting weasels. I did not listen to the audio I just read the transcript provided by the Weasels themselves. No where does it say anything about Kennedy joking about Kopechne’s death. Kennedy’s comment concerns the public’s reaction toward him, i.e. Chappaquiddick jokes that were at Kennedy’s expense. I might add, I’m no expert on the Irish, but my understanding is that it is Irish tradition to deal with tragedy with dark humor … dark self-effacing humor. There is nothing in the statement about joking about Kopechne’s death.

    Try again Elric.

  64. “I guess my mistake was trying to answer one of Elric’s 999 questions. ”

    Heh. You never did answer it and still dodging it.

    “No where does it say anything about Kennedy joking about Kopechne’s death.”

    Wow. Now you are resorting to lying? Why am I not shocked.

    “Meanwhile, listening to ”Reflections on Sen. Kennedy … Lion of the Senate” on the Diane Rehm Show on the drive home last night, I was deeply moved to hear Newsweek’s Ed Klein tell guest host Katty Kay about Kennedy’s love of humor. How the late senator loved to hear and tell Chappaquiddick jokes, and was always eager to know if anyone had heard any new ones. Not that Kennedy lacked remorse, Klein quickly added, seeming to intuit that my jaw and perhaps those of other listeners had just hit the floorboards. I gather it was a self-deprecating maneuver on Kennedy’s part, exercised with the famous Kennedy charm, though it sounds like one of those “I guess you had to have been there” things.”

    http://wamu.org/audio/dr/09/08/r1090827-27080.asx

    And again, would you have forgave Dead Kennedy if it was your daughter. Its really simple to answer. Either “Yes I would have” or “No, I wouldnt have”. Even simple enough for you Dodger.

  65. Video: Krauthammer says Dean “speaks the truth”
    posted at 11:36 am on August 28, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
    Share on Facebook | printer-friendly

    How foolish was Howard Dean’s admission that the Democrats lack the testicular fortitude to offer tort reform as part of ObamaCare? Every opponent of ObamaCare now has a handy sound bite to press the demand for tort reform as a show-stopper — and clearly paint the Democratic Party as a mouthpiece for trial lawyers. Charles Krauthammer used the clip to damn Dean and the Democrats with the faint praise of Dean’s “truth”, as Townhall’s Greg Hengler catches:

    Something else for Dodger to dodge. Well given when he does attempt to answer, he looks even more foolish. Do yourself a favor Dodger and just keep on hiding. You are better off.

  66. Obama To Appoint Self G.O.D. (Gov’ntal Overall Director)
    By Will Beria
    8/27/2009, 9:19 am

    Finally American progressives can have a G.O.D. they can believe in. Banking on a wildly successful media coverage of its efforts to transform the backward, individualistic America into a nation of enlightened state-worshippers ruled by unelected czars, the administrative branch is preparing for a next radical reform that will further streamline the system and dispel the accusations of oligarchic rule by concentrating all the powers enumerated, extrapolated, and imagined under the constitution in the hands of only one man.

    Said White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs, “We must urgently streamline the decision-making process because the time for talk is over. The outdated 19th century idea of reading and debating bills must end. Face it, not only does debate delay immediate action, so does voting.”
    ~

    The new legislation proposes the President of the United States appointing himself to the new position of Governmental Overall Director, or G.O.D. for short. “We believe in an all-seeing, all-knowing, all-powerful G.O.D. to create order out of the chaos that is the unfortunate result of too many people making too many decisions for themselves. Hope and change require unity. Unity requires oneness of purpose. As you may know, Obama is The One.”

    Under the proposal the G.O.D. will give the people new freedoms, replacing the old freedoms which have atrophied to tired clichés. The G.O.D. is expected to replace individual free will with collective will of the communities represented by community organizers. Free enterprise will be replaced with free lunch, and free speech with free internet access. The inalienable rights of life, liberty and property will be supplanted by the rights of bodily functions, controlled unanimity, and regulated sharing.

    http://www.thepeoplescube.com/red/viewtopic.php?t=3946

  67. Holy Crap! Rutherford will stretch so damn far!

    “I’m no expert on the Irish, but my understanding is that it is Irish tradition to deal with tragedy with dark humor … dark self-effacing humor.”-rutherford

    I have no idea if Kennedy really joked about murdering that girl. But for Rutherford to automatically reach for a defense that is so ridiculous is telling.

    Kennedy is a Mick.

    Politically, Kennedy was an amazing senator. I am not taking that away from him.

    Curator seems to try to lump me in with some crazy, hate mongering fringe group.

    Rutherford calls me an anarchist.

    If Teddy didn’t have that last name, he would have wore an orange suite for 30 years.

    If Teddy did have the last name, money and notoriety but was black, he would have been an OJ type figure.

    It’s hard to believe that we live in a time where getting away with murder is called an “aw shit” moment.

    As for Curators hatred towards Christianity and odd allusion to the death penalty, I really have no idea what he is talking about.

    I’m a fake Catholic.

    I also believe that the death penalty should be abolished.

  68. “I have no idea if Kennedy really joked about murdering that girl. But for Rutherford to automatically reach for a defense that is so ridiculous is telling.”

    Thuggy could execute his kids on the White House lawn with the media filming it and Dodger would make some excuse for him.

  69. “women’s movement has been hijacked by demo-marxist liberals.”-Rutherford

    Absolutely. I do believe that. In fact, most liberals would probably concede that as at least somewhat true.

    There is a silent majority of women who do not buy into the feminist movement as it’s been defined over the last 30 years.

  70. Elric (Ed Morrissey Stooge)

    Congressional Research Service: ObamaCare will cover illegal immigrants

    In the end I believe there will be some sort of immigration status verification to qualify at least for any government subsidies under the bill. If an illegal immigrant wants to pay full price for insurance under the public option then there is nothing to stop them, but in the end taxpayer money will not fund health care for an illegal immigrant.

    So, what’s your solution to 50 million people without health care? Cutting taxes for rich people? Deregulating health care? Maybe the poor could each be issues a sharp piece of glass and invited to a national “Thunderdome”. The winner gets a lower deductible.

    Honestly, what’s the solution from the right on health care?

    Beside fear-mongering and lying?

  71. “In the end I believe there will be some sort of immigration status verification to qualify at least for any government subsidies under the bill.”

    Ohhh you BELIEVE? Well that clears that issue right up

    “So, what’s your solution to 50 million people without health care?”

    Well I could give a rat’s ass about the illegals included in that mythical number. Start by cutting them off from all social services including working here. And of course Tort reform but since the Demomarxists wont do it by their own admission, thats out the window.

  72. Tort reform and competition of insurance companies across state lines would be huge.

    Curator acts like the very poor aren’t getting covered. Medcaid and “emergency room” does fill that gap.

    Ultimately, Curator and I want the same thing. I wish everyone could have kick ass benefits. The difference is I’m a realist. It can’t happen. For the same reason that not everyone gets to eat Morton’s Steak House tonight.

    Illegal immigration must stop.

    Hell, I would be even OK with giving citizenship to all who are here right now if I thought we would truly close up the border.

  73. “Hell, I would be even OK with giving citizenship to all who are here right now if I thought we would truly close up the border.”

    That was tried before and we were lied to then.

  74. Tort reform would do what exactly? Do you know? Do you know that a report by the Congressional Budget Office put medical malpractice costs at 2% of U.S. health spending?

    Wow… 2%…. that would save a lot of money!

    Remember that back in May Obama offered to accept serious tort reform from the Republicans at the beginning of the health care discussion in order to win their support and cooperation on a bill.

    They told him to fuck off.

  75. Why would should I look at the fact Obama offered tort reform to be some kind of gift? If it would save money, then it should be in there right now. End of story.

    Doesn’t your 2% stat only really apply to actual litigation outcomes?

    Tort reform would allow doctors to make much more common sense decisions, saving a ton more cash.

    _________________________________________________

    I wonder how many people who are bitching about not having health insurance have cable tv, broadband internet, and two cell phones?

    I argue that half the people who do not have insurance could, but chose to buy other things.

    Seems like every broke motherfucker I know has a television the size of a drive in.

  76. DR

    Curator acts like the very poor aren’t getting covered. Medcaid and “emergency room” does fill that gap.

    Which we pay for in our taxes and increased costs.

    So you are in favor of universal health care?

    Emergency room are obligated to see anybody who walks thru their doors, and many times these ER visitors are the illegal immigrant, uninsured or the working poor. Who do you think pays for that?

  77. “Emergency room are obligated to see anybody who walks thru their doors, and many times these ER visitors are the illegal immigrant, uninsured or the working poor. Who do you think pays for that?”

    Who do you think is suggesting to cut them off from all social services? You for it or not?

  78. Spencer on C-Span Book TV tomorrow!

    stealthjihadbk.jpg

    This will air Saturday, August 29 at 7PM EDT. From C-Span (thanks to Bill):

    The Stealth Jihad: How Radical Islam is Subverting America without Guns or Bombs

    Robert Spencer

    About the Program

    From Young America’s Foundation’s 31st Annual National Conservative Student Conference held in Washington, DC, a talk by Robert Spencer, author of “Stealth Jihad.” Includes audience Q&A.

    About the Authors

    Robert Spencer

    Robert Spencer, director of Jihad Watch (jihadwatch.org), is the author many books [sic], including the “The Truth About Muhammad” and “The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam.”

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027390.php#respond

    Dodgette loves watching CSpan. Maybe she will watch it and learn something

  79. Why would should I look at the fact Obama offered tort reform to be some kind of gift?

    Why look at it as something that would …be huge when it is really just a red herring? Of all the inefficiency in our system tort reform is just the Republican carping about pro-democratic leaning “trial lawyers” of the Association of Trial Lawyers of America.

    Robert Hunter, who is Director of Insurance for the Consumer Federation of America, and former Federal Insurance Administrator under Presidents Carter and Ford states:

    Medical malpractice premiums are the lowest they have been in this entire thirty years of inflation-adjusted data. This is in no small part due to the fact that claims have fallen like a rock, down 45 percent since 2000.

    Our study also shows that states that have passed severe medical malpractice tort restrictions on victims of medical error have rate changes similar to those states that haven’t adopted these harsh measures. Finally, our research makes clear that medical malpractice claims and premiums have almost no impact on the cost of health care.

    We need to come up with real solutions but I suppose the conservative Right have to have some slogans and “tax cuts” and “tort reform” is all they seem to have.

  80. Sick Of Being Called A Racist Yet? LA Rep. Tells People ObamaCare Protesters Hope the “First President Who Looks Like Me – Fails”…Also Praises Che And Castro For Good Measure . . .

    Gee Dodger, can I call them marxists now?

  81. Tacit War Rambo,

    Robert Hunter, who is Director of Insurance for the Consumer Federation of America, and former Federal Insurance Administrator under Presidents Carter and Ford states:

    Medical malpractice premiums are the lowest they have been in this entire thirty years of inflation-adjusted data. This is in no small part due to the fact that claims have fallen like a rock, down 45 percent since 2000.

    Our study also shows that states that have passed severe medical malpractice tort restrictions on victims of medical error have rate changes similar to those states that haven’t adopted these harsh measures. Finally, our research makes clear that medical malpractice claims and premiums have almost no impact on the cost of health care.

    We need to come up with real solutions but I suppose the conservative Right have to have some slogans and “tax cuts” and “tort reform” is all they seem to have.

    Rambo, you’re even more naive than Rutherford and about on par with Sensico in microscopic depth. First, this is one man’s opinion – this does not make a multitude and I assure you his opinion in the minority for those in the know. But even to assume your hero correct, here is what you apparently fail to understand.

    Medical malpractice premiums for several professions in the medical community are to the extreme to require self-insurance. Don’t believe me, call an OBGYN or general surgeon and ask ask about liability.

    More importantly, the risk of unlimited liability creates the practice of defensive medicine – much of this dictated by hospital and emergency rooms, helping to explain why hospitalization cost so much. I know this simple, obvious fact is beyond you, but try to focus for once and open your mind to the truth. 😉

  82. Tex,

    Cant say for sure but it does sound like him. It was higher once but the Israelis have come to the conclusion that Thuggy’s sympathies lie with the Ummah.

    Its going to get a lot uglier next month when he speaks at the

    Check out this new blog I stumbled across. I think you will like it

    http://www.johnmcternan.name/

  83. Curator, many many thanks for compiling the list of Kennedy’s legislative accomplishments. I knew about Title IX and the voting rights act.

    Elric here is your answer in words you can fully understand:

    If Pope John Paul II was able to forgive a man who deliberately shot and tried to kill him, I would ultimately forgive the man who accidentally killed my daughter.

    I’m no Christian but I value forgiveness as a Christian virtue.

  84. Check out this new blog I stumbled across. I think you will like it.

    You know Elric, I do want to stay out of your personal life but I find it fascinating how you toss up some religious-based blog from a religion that calls your lifestyle an abomination. And by the way, not to make you too uncomfortable but if you look through some old threads on this blog, you’ll see that Tex finds it an abomination also. Most conservatives do. Liberals believe you should be able to conduct your private affairs as you please.

    That’s why I used to feel Andrew Sullivan was a horse’s ass. But I think he’s beginning to see the light. He’s pretty much renounced the Republican party. He may remain fiscally conservative (which I don’t particularly fault) but I have a feeling he will become increasingly socially liberal.

  85. “Remember that back in May Obama offered to accept serious tort reform from the Republicans at the beginning of the health care discussion in order to win their support and cooperation on a bill.

    They told him to fuck off.

    Source?

  86. Rutherford,

    You do know the history of old Joe Kennedy Sr., don’t you? He was the caricature of the despicable robber baron, including stealing his own father-in-law’s bank and basically putting him the grave. Throw in the boot-legging, mob connections, and womanizing, and I think you get a pretty good picture of sleaze in action.

    But then again, you’re a lib.

  87. Rutherford, 😆

    That’s why I used to feel Andrew Sullivan was a horse’s ass. But I think he’s beginning to see the light.

    The liberal fickle finger of fate has struck. 😆 Andrew was a horse’s ass until George Bush denounced gay marriage and Andrew turned on the entire Republican party, hey? Until Andy became a frequent MSNBC guest, hey? What depth and loyalty you have friend! 😯

    Good gawd. When Androgynous Andy left, I personally told him don’t let the door hit you in the ass. I’ve still got his return email back. What a dog! 😆

  88. “But it really blows me away how a bunch of people with penises think they can legislate issues related to pregnancy. ” — R

    Last I checked, kids had mothers AND fathers. Her body, my child- should I not have any say in what happens to my kid?

    How is abortion a part of womens liberation? I thought it was a medical practice to protect the life of the mother. If it is a part of womens lib, then it isn’t a medical requirement, it is a socio-economic issue, which then simply reaffirms DR’s point about abbortions being a life choice.

    You can’t claim the medical arguement and use womens lib.

    Furthermore, your math is screwed up R. Your equation should read something like this: -10 – 7 – 5 – 3 – 2= -27. There have not been any positives in this yet. Unemployment in May 2008 was 5.5%, in November ’08 6.7%, in February ’09 it was 8.1% and today is 9.5%, or 16% if you include underemployed or discouraged/no-longer seeking. Negatives are growing, there haven’t been any positiives in this mix of data, so saying the negatives are getting smaller isn’t really better, its just not getting worse as fast.

    A recession is defined as two consecutive quarters of negative growth, and thus a recession is termed to have come to an end when it has two quarters with possitive growth. We haven’t had that yet, and until we do, claims of stepping away from the brink should be taken with a grain of salt- how do they know? None of the indicators are showing possitives yet…

  89. “I would ultimately forgive the man who accidentally killed my daughter.”

    He left her to drown, thats no accident. Nice dodge still. And while you are at it, does forgiveness include for those who show no remorse. One who even cracks jokes about it?

  90. “You know Elric, I do want to stay out of your personal life but I find it fascinating how you toss up some religious-based blog from a religion that calls your lifestyle an abomination.”

    What lifestyle would that be?

    You know what I find fascinating. That you will dodge post after post on Thuggy and the demomarxist thuggery but then feel you need to comment on a link I specifically left for someone else.

    Now that is fascinating.

  91. “I would ultimately forgive the man who accidentally killed my daughter.”-rutherford

    Making a statement like that is like the Rabbit talking about how courageous he would be in combat.

    You simply can’t make that claim until you are actually dealing with it. This is especially true for a non Christian.

    I’m the biggest hypocrite you will ever talk to about the death penalty.

    On one hand, I deem it morally wrong. In fact, i also believe it’s implementation to be racist. Blacks are more likely to get offed then whites, men then women.

    That being said, if someone ever did something like kid nap and enslave my kid or rape my wife, there is a very good chance that the state would not be needed for an execution.

    In other words, i am against the death penalty until something terrible happens to my loved ones.

  92. Source?

    http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1895706,00.html

    When Barack Obama informed congressional Republicans last month that he would support a controversial parliamentary move to protect health-care reform from a filibuster in the Senate, they were furious. That meant the bill could pass with a simple majority of 51 votes, eliminating the need for any GOP support. Where, they demanded, was the bipartisanship the President had promised? So, right there in the Cabinet Room, the President put a proposal on the table, according to two people who were present. Obama said he was willing to curb malpractice awards, a move long sought by Republicans that is certain to bring strong opposition from the trial lawyers who fund the Democratic Party.

    What, he wanted to know, did the Republicans have to offer in return?

    Nothing, it turned out.

  93. I wouldn’t forgive somebody if it were me. That doesn’t mean that I would hate them like conservatives hated Kennedy.

    I always felt that Kennedy’s drank to dull the pain. A flawed man, to be sure; are we all not flawed? Unfortunately his flaws were known to all, though many looked past them to see his better part.

    In my opinion he did clean his act up, and his years of positive public service count for a lot in my book.

  94. “That doesn’t mean that I would hate them like conservatives hated Kennedy.”-Curator

    Sure dude. The hate someone has for the murderer of their child is equal to the hate conservatives have for Kennedy.

    I would agree that he cleaned up his act for the most part. Don’t most of us after the age of 30? (In his case 60)

    He never paid his debt to society. And that bugs me.

    If anyone here thinks being a Congressman is some kind of great sacrifice, they are from outer space.

    These people get metaphoric BJs every where they go at all times.
    _________________________________________________
    I’ll be nice to Kennedy for a bit. He’s always done right for veterans.

  95. Rabbit & Elric,

    Curator is the typical, pious hypocrite with double standards from the left. He’ll forgive and overlook the many serious Kennedy flaws, even excusing manslaughter if his Kennedy’s politics okay in the Curator book.

    Adultery in the Oval Office – no big deal. Blatant Israeli Jew hating policies – to be commended. Abortion on demand – a sacrament and testament of society’s goodness. Tomahawk Cruise missile hits the Chinese Embassy – a simple mistake. Good buddies with Hugo Chavez? We need to make peace and repair our country’s reputation.

    George Bush calls Adam Clymer of the NYT an asshole?

    INEXCUSABLE! HYPOCRITE! HYPOCRITE!

    Typical lefty double standards in action again.

    It is no wonder Curator a fan of Obama and his dismal policies – he too is a graduate student of Saul Alinsky.

  96. In the current political cycle (2010), the American Association for Justice- formerly the Association of Trial Lawyers for America- have given 96% to Dems versus 4% to the GOP. In 2008, it was 95% Dem vs. 5% GOP. 2006: 95% Dem vs. 4% GOP and in 2004: 92% Dem vs. 8% GOP. Since 1990, they have given 90% to Dems versus 9% to the GOP, or $30.7 Million versus $2.8 Million.

    http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000000065

    Trial lawyers are heavily in the pocket ot the Dems, not the other way around.

    You claim, or at least the author of the article in a rag that is clearly objective– cough, cough, laugh, laugh…- is that the GOP has not had anything to offer on this. Not true, but it is understandable that you’ve not heard about it- their ideas are getting no coverage in the media and they are being completely removed from the drafting of any of the legislation. The fact of the matter is that the GOP’s ideas are not being considered or even put forward by the Dems, and apparently, the People think the Dems ideas suck.

    53% oppose Obamacare- 43% of them strongly. The Presidents numbers continue to decline and Congress is pretty much despised, especially Pelosi and Reid.

    Your party…

  97. So many comments….all I can say is stop hating on my blog Rabbit. By all means I’d be happy to see you start a blog and see where that goes.
    Obama’s plan isn’t fully universal because no one is forced to get health care. That was the main difference between Obama and Clinton’s plan.

  98. Tex, mmmm 4% consider Obama pro-Israel. Ehhhh, duh. He is the first President in recent history to say that Palestinians are people too. So my response to Israel’s reaction. So what?

    It’s time we all learned to get along and that means cooperation even from Israel.

  99. What’s Obama’s plan? The only bill written right now is H.R. 3200. Obama isn’t pushing his own written plan, so one must assume that H.R. 3200 is it, and in it it requires ALL people to get healthcare or be fined significantly.

    Facts hurt…

  100. You do know the history of old Joe Kennedy Sr., don’t you?

    And are you aware that there is a historical theory that the politics of Jack, Bobby and Ted were a direct response and atonement for the politics of their father, especially what is viewed as his appeasement of Hitler.

  101. Until Andy became a frequent MSNBC guest, hey?

    Tex, I actually watch MSNBC unlike you, and he has hardly made an appearance there. I’ve seen him on the mother ship NBC’s Chris Matthews Show (Sundays) and on Bill Maher (HBO).

  102. So what? So now rethuglicans want people to be able to work over the health care system. Whenever someone goes to the hospital without paying we all pay for that in taxes and rising costs. People should be fined.
    And again, HR 3200 doesn’t require people go on gov. run insurance universal health care would require everyone to go on a gov. run plan. I don’t support that and wouldn’t support this bill if it was like that.

  103. He left her to drown, thats no accident. Nice dodge still. And while you are at it, does forgiveness include for those who show no remorse. One who even cracks jokes about it?

    Not a dodge at all. According to at least some accounts, he made several unsuccessful attempts to free her from the wreckage. It is readily agreed by most … even those who hate Kennedy, that the sin was not in the accident but in the 10 hours spent figuring out how to save his political ass instead of going straight to the police. So yes, it was an accident. And no, you have zero evidence that Kennedy joked about her death. You have evidence that he joked about those who kept the tragedy alive with their own Ted Kennedy Chappaquiddick jokes. Keep twisting the story Weasel.

  104. What lifestyle would that be?

    Oh puhleeze, Elric. Either correct/delete the MySpace page or man-up about it. The only thing more retro than a closeted gay in 2009 is a gay guy who comes out on his MySpace page and then plays coy about it.

    You know what I find fascinating. That you will dodge post after post on Thuggy and the demomarxist thuggery but then feel you need to comment on a link I specifically left for someone else.

    Mmmm. Guess what? I ain’t running a messenger service or bulletin board system here. As blog owner I reserve the right to comment on any comment I please.

    If you’d like to re-write those rules, get your own damn blog and stop being a pimp for Weasel Zippers. 😉

  105. You simply can’t make that claim until you are actually dealing with it.

    I see your point Rabbit but then that does end the debate doesn’t it? There are many hypothetical situations we discuss here for which we have no direct experience. We can only make our best guess at our reaction based on our core beliefs. True enough, when a core belief is tested it might go right out the window. But that can’t be the premise that invalidates an argument in a debate. You say you’re against the death penalty. The fact that you might change your mind when put on the spot, doesn’t really give me the right to challenge your stance at this moment.

    Who knows Rabbit, had you not met Mrs. Rabbit, given the right lighting, and a little booze, you might have proposed to Janet Napolitano. Still I take your word for it, that she ain’t your type. 😉

  106. I always felt that Kennedy’s drank to dull the pain.

    While I’m not a big fan for excuses for alcoholism (we all have a “reason” for our vices), Curator’s comment reminds me of something I did want to say here.

    Ted Kennedy witnessed tragedy on a friggin Shakespearean level. He saw a brother die in war, a sister die in a plane crash, another sister lobotomized, a brother has his head blown off, another brother murdered in pursuit of the presidency, two children stare down cancer, a nephew (the possible second coming of his father John) killed in a plane accident. The list seems damn near never ending. How many of you on this forum have sustained that much grief in your life? I certainly have not. I think it would have broken many a weaker man.

  107. “R”,

    You say it is time we all learned to get along and that means cooperation even from Israel.

    Please tell me what Israel has not done to cooperate besides building a wall to protect their own citizenry? Please remember, for their thanks of giving up settlements and the Gaza strip, they’ve been attacked. Seems to me that they’ve been more than cooperative and for their thanks, they’ve received pizzeria and wedding bombings, Kassam rockets launched onto playgrounds, had their Olympic athletes slaughtered by the Crown Prince of PLO, and been attacked by Hezbollah randomly launching missiles into outlying towns.

    While you and I joke on the give and take, I think in this regard, you are completely blind (Obama is just clueless). Your request is like asking the United States to cooperate with Al Qaeda. Sorry, doesn’t fly in my book.

  108. I wouldn’t forgive somebody if it were me.

    Again, Curator triggers a thought I neglected to express earlier, this time in my response to Elric.

    Forgiveness is an odd concept. To me, it does not mean the person being forgiven becomes your best friend. It means that you let go of the hostility toward the person, you accept that they are human, and you try to move on. When you do not forgive, the hatred you maintain can end up eating you up, not the target of your hate. That is why I say I would ultimately forgive Kennedy, because I think it would be healthier in the long run, then living out the rest of my days with a fresh hatred of him.

    In addition, if you listen to the numerous personal accounts of Kennedy’s generosity of spirit and caring for others, it is hard to come away with any conclusion other than that Chappaquiddick was a terrible anomaly in his life.

  109. (In his case 60)

    Ahhhh Rabbit, there you go with your creative math again. Chappaquiddick was 40 years ago. Ted died at age 77. My math puts his clean up starting at age 37, not 60.

  110. “He is the first President in recent history to say that Palestinians are people too. ”

    Really? Every other president didnt say they were people. Given their culture of death it would be understandable but you have quotes them saying they werent people?

  111. “R”,

    And are you aware that there is a historical theory that the politics of Jack, Bobby and Ted were a direct response and atonement for the politics of their father, especially what is viewed as his appeasement of Hitler.

    I hardly think atoning for the sins of the father had much to do with it, considering the father financed Camelot until his death and is still heralded by the Kennedy Klan as the patriarch. Ironically, I have read the heartbreak of Teddy drowning Mary Jo Kopechne was the final straw in Joe the Asshole’s imminent demise, as tears welled in his eyes upon hearing of the news.

    Face it “R”, all of the Kennedy brothers, including Bobby, were philandering, deeply flawed creatures. It has carried thru with many of the children, including the joke of an annulment of marriage after 12 years and two children of Joe P.. You’ll note the Pope hasn’t commented about their greatness and good works.

  112. “Oh puhleeze, Elric. Either correct/delete the MySpace page or man-up about it. The only thing more retro than a closeted gay in 2009 is a gay guy who comes out on his MySpace page and then plays coy about it.”

    LOL Too funny. More concerned about My Myspace page that I forgot I even had than your thug in chief running the nation into the ground.

    “Mmmm. Guess what? I ain’t running a messenger service or bulletin board system here. As blog owner I reserve the right to comment on any comment I please.”

    That you do. But why dont YOU man up and actually defend what Thuggy is doing instead of hiding. Like if Thuggy is such a big believer in “global warming”, why the hell is he giving tax payer money to Brazil to drill oil when he wont allow American companies do drill on our own land?

    “That is why I say I would ultimately forgive Kennedy, because I think it would be healthier in the long run, then living out the rest of my days with a fresh hatred of him.”

    Not forgiving someone doesnt equal fresh hatred.

  113. Wrong again Sensico…

    DOES THE PLAN AUTOMATICALLY ENROLL AMERICANS IN THE GOVERNMENT PLAN?

    What it says, page 102, Section 205, OUTREACH AND ENROLLMENT OF EXCHANGE-ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUALS AND EMPLOYERS IN EXCHANGE-PARTICIPATING HEALTH BENEFITS PLAN:

    (3) AUTOMATIC ENROLLMENT OF MEDICAID ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUALS INTO MEDICAID.—The Commissioner shall provide for a process under which an individual who is described in section 202(d)(3) and has not elected to enroll in an Exchange-participating health benefits plan is automatically enrolled under Medicaid.

    And, page 145, section 312:

    (4) AUTOENROLLMENT OF EMPLOYEES.—The employer provides for autoenrollment of the employee in accordance with subsection (c).

    EVALUATION OF THE PASSAGES:

    1. Do nothing and you are in.
    2. Employers are responsible for automatically enrolling people who still work.

    WILL THE PLAN PUNISH AMERICANS WHO TRY TO OPT OUT?

    What the bill says, pages 167-168, section 401, TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE:

    ‘‘(a) TAX IMPOSED.—In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of—
    (1) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross income for the taxable year, over
    (2) the amount of gross income specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer. . . .”

    EVALUATION OF THE PASSAGE:

    1. This section amends the Internal Revenue Code.
    2. Anyone caught without acceptable coverage and not in the government plan will pay a special tax.
    3. The IRS will be a major enforcement mechanism for the plan.

    WILL THE PLAN DESTROY PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE?

    Here is what it requires, for businesses with payrolls greater than $400,000 per year. (The bill uses “contribution” to refer to mandatory payments to the government plan.) Pages 149-150, SEC. 313, EMPLOYER CONTRIBUTIONS IN LIEU OF COVERAGE

    (a) IN GENERAL.—A contribution is made in accordance with this section with respect to an employee if such contribution is equal to an amount equal to 8 percent of the average wages paid by the employer during the period of enrollment (determined by taking into account all employees of the employer and in such manner as the Commissioner provides, including rules providing for the appropriate aggregation of related employers). Any such contribution—

    (1) shall be paid to the Health Choices Commissioner for deposit into the Health Insurance Exchange Trust Fund, and
    (2) shall not be applied against the premium of the employee under the Exchange-participating health benefits plan in which the employee is enrolled.

    (The bill then includes a sliding scale of payments for business with less than $400,000 in annual payroll.)

    The Bill also reserves, for the government, the power to determine an acceptable benefits plan: page 24, SEC. 115. ENSURING ADEQUACY OF PROVIDER NETWORKS.

    5 (a) IN GENERAL.—A qualified health benefits plan that uses a provider network for items and services shall meet such standards respecting provider networks as the Commissioner may establish to assure the adequacy of such networks in ensuring enrollee access to such items and services and transparency in the cost-sharing differentials between in-network coverage and out-of-network coverage.

    EVALUATION OF THE PASSAGES:

    1. The bill does not prohibit a person from buying private insurance.
    2. Small businesses—with say 8-10 employees—will either have to provide insurance to federal standards, or pay an 8% payroll tax. Business costs for health care are higher than this, especially considering administrative costs. Any competitive business that tries to stay with a private plan will face a payroll disadvantage against competitors who go with the government “option.”
    3. The pressure for business owners to terminate the private plans will be enormous.
    4. With employers ending plans, millions of Americans will lose their private coverage, and fewer companies will offer it.
    5. The Commissioner (meaning, always, the bureaucrats) will determine whether a particular network of physicians, hospitals and insurance is acceptable.
    6. With private insurance starved, many people enrolled in the government “option” will have no place else to go.

    The long and short of it is that H.R. 3200 will destroy private coverage and will force folks into the public option. The way it is written, it is a huge trojan horse for single payer, which Obama supports.

    Try reading the bill before you defend it next time…

  114. Please tell me what Israel has not done to cooperate besides building a wall to protect their own citizenry?

    One of the nice things about not being an expert on a subject is you can let common sense substitute for book learnin’.

    If we acknowledge that we are talking about two countries, Israel and Palestine then we must first agree on a border between those two countries. Once that is agreed upon, both parties must respect those borders. I do not understand why Israel has settlements in Palestine. What is the justification for that? And what is wrong with Obama suggesting that these two countries must act like two countries, respect each others existence and respect agreed upon borders?

    The beauty and the danger of common sense is that it can be overly simplistic. I’d welcome any education on the matter that can show me where my common sense fails in this instance.

  115. Last I checked, kids had mothers AND fathers.

    It’s funny that you say that Gorilla because I used this very argument playing devil’s advocate with my wife this morning. The role the father plays in a pregnancy simply cannot be compared to the role the mother plays. Nature (or God as the case may be) has burdened women with a nine month process of child gestation and birth. Nature has allowed men to make a deposit and keep on movin’.

    Since Rabbit has presented statistics of women overwhelmingly making the abortion decision for reasons of “convenience”, then I’d challenge you and Rabbit to find out what percent of these instances involve an active, caring, involved father? I would guess a sizable portion of women considering abortion don’t have a reliable man to even consult with.

    Men are hardly the heroes in the unwanted pregnancy situation. In most cases, I don’t think they really have much of a say and that is if you can find them in the first place.

  116. Furthermore, your math is screwed up R. Your equation should read something like this: -10 – 7 – 5 – 3 – 2= -27.

    On the contrary, you’ve confirmed my math. Take your progression a bit further:

    -10 – 7 – 5 – 3 – 2 – 1 – 0 +1 +2 +3 and so on.

    The overall unemployment rate will not decrease until the rate of decrease itself decreases and that is what we are seeing. Is there still a net gain in unemployment? Yes. Are we bleeding as fast? No. The less we bleed, the closer we come to not bleeding at all. That is the goal.

  117. “R”,

    Common sense is nice, but it is premised first on truth like everything worth learning.

    Let us remember, that Israel was in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank because it was attacked, kicked the ass of Israeli’s sworn enemy, and then settled the territory. Both were returned to the enemy and Israel received thanks by having innocent citizens killed again.

    And what is wrong with Obama suggesting that these two countries must act like two countries, respect each others existence and respect agreed upon borders?

    Why don’t you ask the 24 Israelis to every one finding favor with Obama’s swell ideas about fairness? That is, unless you also believe you understand the situation better than those living it. 😮

  118. Face it “R”, all of the Kennedy brothers, including Bobby, were philandering, deeply flawed creatures. It has carried thru with many of the children, including the joke of an annulment of marriage after 12 years and two children of Joe P.. You’ll note the Pope hasn’t commented about their greatness and good works.

    Tex, do you even bother to read my main posts? My whole point was that these men had the sexual morality of scum but along with that gave service to their country. When you call Bobby a philanderer, you’re preaching to the choir.

    As for the current Pope, since he was a Nazi sympathizer in his youth, I would imagine he’s a bigger fan of Joe than of Joe’s sons. 😉

  119. Again Rutherford, I must take issue with your logic.

    The role the father plays in a pregnancy simply cannot be compared to the role the mother plays. Nature (or God as the case may be) has burdened women with a nine month process of child gestation and birth. Nature has allowed men to make a deposit and keep on movin’.

    Agreed about the biology (though what you apparently see as a curse I see as a blessing), but you can’t have it both ways Rutherford. If the father has no role in the choice of the mother bearing child, then you must also allow the father to recuse himself from any responsibility including monetary without punishment.

    You ready to allow that? When you are, holler and I’ll but out of the issue. Until then, I’ll continue to call abortion what it is: infanticide.

  120. Rutherford,

    Where do you get your information about the Pope? People Magazine?

    The Pope was no more a Nazi sympathizer during his youth than you were.

  121. Yeah, I read your post. You think Kennedy an asset because you’re a lib. I think Kennedy awful because my judgment more sound.

  122. What is so noble about public service to a country when most of your decisions rotten? 😆

    I was taught that was a liability. Kennedy sucked (and leaked) like the Big Dig If Teddy was such noble character and such a savior for the little man, where’s his own personal sacrifice?

    Who penned these words “R”?

    Thirty-four years ago this month, I wrote that “the legalization of abortion on demand is not in accordance with the value which our civilization places on human life.” I add that society has a “responsibility to its children from the very moment of conception.”

  123. More concerned about My Myspace page that I forgot I even had …

    Actually I’m not at all “concerned” about your MySpace page. It is, to my knowledge the only biographical information we have about you since you prefer to divorce who you are from what you believe or say on this blog.

    I don’t think it unusual for human beings to be interested in how other human beings reconcile their life choices with their stated beliefs. Let’s look at a more trivial example. Some folks on this blog have found it surprising that I am black because I like CCR and Green Day. They wonder how the hell that happened. And I’ve told them that I simply wasn’t raised listening to “black” music.

    Now let’s say for the moment that I was in favor of euthanasia (which I adamantly am not). I think a very reasonable question would be how, as a disabled person, I could support a practice that places a value on a life and deems that life not worth living. The question would be … wouldn’t I be concerned that my own quality of life might be questioned. Now as it happens, I am not in favor of euthanasia so there is no obvious conflict to explore here.

    Let’s take you out of the equation since you don’t wish to share (your prerogative clearly). If Henry is gay and Henry is a conservative bible enthusiast, would I be so out of order to wonder how Henry could embrace a religion that finds his preferences shameful? Would it be that unusual to wonder how Henry associates with a political movement that denies him the right to marriage, honest self-identification within the military and often compares his consensual practices with pedophilia and even bestiality?

    So fine. Elric, if you are gay, you don’t wish to address what I consider to be an interesting (to say the least) juxtaposition of your lifestyle with your politics. Fine, your prerogative. If you are not gay, then the MySpace page you forgot you had is incredibly juvenile for a then 43 year old to have created. (Oh and a possible third option … if you thought by “orientation” MySpace was asking you whether you had a sunny “gay” disposition …. ehh, you misunderstood. The gay they’re talking about is homosexual gay.)

    (P.S, Part of my professional life involves advising folks on their internet presence, social networking etc. So some free advice for you … potential employers and others use the internet for research. Don’t put crap out there that you either don’t want to share or that isn’t true in the first place.)

  124. Tex beat me to it, but he has a point, the father certainly has a significant role in the next, oh, couple decades. Just to confirm that, why don’t we look at cultures that have a high degree of father absence and see how they fair…

    Its a low blow R, but sometimes the truth hurts…

  125. Try reading the bill before you defend it next time…

    Since I don’t want to be up all night tonight, I’m taking it as a homework assignment to research the validity of Obama’s “firewall” claim. Obama has stated unambiguously that the bill will not allow companies to “dump” their employees into the public option.

    More to come later,

  126. But you would have more luck debating a kitchen table.

    Mmmm that sounds strangely similar to something said recently by Barney Frank. Elric, you’re not encouraging Gorilla to dismiss the concerns of a citizen expressing herself in accordance with her first amendment rights are you, you demo-marxist you? 😉

  127. You can’t look at Palestine as a country because it isn’t one. Period. Israel can settle their because it is their territory, they control it.

    Answer me this, Israel took the West Bank and Gaza in 1967 from the Egyptians and the Jordanians in the Six Day war. Israel came into existance in 1948. So, Egypt and Jordan controled the West Bank and Gaza for 19 years- why didn’t they establish a Palestinian state?

    Listen, I’ve been to the Middle East many times, sometimes with a walking stick, and sometimes swinging the stick. What I’ve come to learn through my experience is that no one likes the Palestinians, but they make a convienent soap box for railing against the one state the consistently kicks their ass- Israel. Now, I can bitch about Israel just as easily because they’ve done plenty to complicate and screw this thing up, but last I checked, Israel wasn’t strapping high explosives to their kids and sending them off to kill the infidel. Until a culture is ready for peace, which I’m not convinced the Palestinians are, then talks about peace will be just that- talk.

    Besides, I don’t think the Palestinians can or should be allowed to sue for peace at this time. They have been, as well as made of themselves, the victim for so long that they can’t objectively deal with the situation anymore. Peace will not come until the Arab states come to terms with Israel. When that happens, the Palestinians will finally have their state…

  128. Why don’t you ask the 24 Israelis to every one finding favor with Obama’s swell ideas about fairness?

    I don’t need to. You seem to think you’ve got a handle on the situation so answer the simple question.

    What is wrong with Obama suggesting that the two countries respect each other’s borders and act like good neighbors?

  129. Since I don’t want to be up all night tonight, I’m taking it as a homework assignment to research the validity of Obama’s “firewall” claim. Obama has stated unambiguously that the bill will not allow companies to “dump” their employees into the public option.” — R

    Now R, make sure you stick to what the bill says in black and white. It matters not what Obama says, because unless it is written in the bill, it won’t matter- the bill is law and it doesn’t matter what the intention of the law is, only what the letter of the law says.

  130. lol….Janet Napolitano? I’m not kidding when I say this. I’d rather lift the tail up of my dog and eat his ass.

  131. Yo Gorilla…sorry about that. I was referring to a comment Rutherford had earlier made.

    Game theory comments? No, I didn’t. What’s up?

  132. Before we make claims of positive growth, can we at least wait for positive growth?

    This administration will certainly go down for many things, but one of them won’t be its ability to accurately project fiscal issues…

  133. The comments were to questions R had asked, but I haven’t seen him reply to them so I was curious.

    No worries cotton tail…

  134. Gorilla, yes I read your game theory comment and found it quite interesting. I get lost in later threads sometimes and don’t get a chance to respond to earlier ones, On the whole, your approach seems a bit more reasoned than Elric’s but then I think you, like The Red Pill, have read a broader cross section of material on the subject, and/or have actually experienced the culture more than Elric has.

    As for Janet Napolitano, just do a CNTL-F (a find) on Janet on this page and you’ll see what Rabbit was responding to. LOL

  135. That article on the Pope is the biggest heap of horse shit I’ve read in a long time.

    The dude was 14. Rutherford, who were your teachers when you were 14?

    Don’t be wrong and name a teacher when you were 12 or 13. You will called out as being dishonest.

    As for the “he could of resisted” argument, by the love of God, he was a 14 year old boy living in Nazi Germany.

    Unbelievable.

  136. “R”,

    What is wrong with Obama suggesting that the two countries respect each other’s borders and act like good neighbors?

    What’s wrong with Obama asking U.S. citizens to respect Al-Qaeda, besides we would question Obama’s sanity like the Israelis do? “R”, I am beginning to wonder if you aren’t imploding like I suggested earlier, and feeling overwhelmed that Obama has been such a miserable failure. I feel your pain. 😆

    I get the impression you’re getting weary of defending the rotten egg smell drifting in from 1600 Penn Ave and not thinking as clearly?

  137. Gorilla,

    Great post with respect to Sensico! Of course, she has as much chance of understanding that answer as she does mixing rocket fuel in the sink, but I enjoyed reading that information to use as a sledge hammer to crack the shells of libs some more

  138. That’s just as annoying as some person saying “first!” when they’re the first comment.
    I’ll be back to read the rest of the comments. I’m sure I won’t agree with most of them. Just giving everyone and obvious headsup on that.

  139. The funny thing about sensico is that she’s usually so inarticulate, uninformed or illogical that even Curator and Rutherford won’t help her out.

    Rutherford keeps her at a safe distance, only giving her kudos for the most general of political observations or cheekiest youtube vid.

    My favorite of them all so far, and there are many, is the time she said she’s cool with taxes becuase, left to her own devices, she’s “not a giver”.

    Then again, her analogy of paralysis therapy and abortion was pretty funny too.

    Reading sensico is like getting political analysis second hand from someone who knows somebody who has a cousin who skimmed the Obama campaign website.

  140. Sensico’s latest blog entry bashes a Republican Congressman for not reading the Obama care bill.

    She calls Inhofe out as if his lack of reading the bill is more proof of the evil in the Republican Party.

    Earth to sensico: NONE OF THEM READ THE STUPID BILLS

    That being said, Inhofe needs to read the damn bill, even if he isn’t going to vote for it. Its his effing job.

    Isn’t it odd that these Congressmen always seem to have the time to take lavish “fact finding” tours around the world?

    If I was pressed for time, and I was, say, a senator from Michigan, I think i would skip the trip all the way to Alaska to view a retreating glacier.

  141. Gorilla, next time you lift whole passages from websites, just cite your source. http://www.classicalideals.com/HR3200.htm
    It’s obvious that you didn’t read the bill but instead wish use someone else ideas as your own. You’re not joe, you’re Elric 2.0

    Referring to Medicaid it those eligible for Medicaid have not chosen a plan then they’ll be put on this plan for a short period of time. It’s for low income people anyways that are already poor. If you want these people using hospital resources when they could just get on Medicaid then you just gave up your tax argument.

    When the hell did the word “outreach” become “mandate”. So, a commissioner with advertise the different options people could take. What’s the point of having a public plan to compete with private options if theres no publicizing of the plan.

    Under the HR 3200 bill it regulates the insurance companies which means they cant work people over, not cover for pre-existing conditions and so forth. I don’t see where the problem is.
    btw, here the whole bill in it’s full context http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-3200
    until Gorilla I actually read the parts of the bill that were in question instead of taking someone elses word for it and copy and pasting.

  142. dude, what is up with this 2 links therefore get sent to moderation. btw, Rabbit, your constant rambling about me and what I write is rather obsessive. Leave it alone, deal with it, I am not going to change just because you want to whine about my blog calling out your party.

  143. “If we acknowledge that we are talking about two countries, Israel and Palestine then we must first agree on a border between those two countries.”

    No such country called “Palestine” exist. There is your first education.

  144. “As for the current Pope, since he was a Nazi sympathizer in his youth, I would imagine he’s a bigger fan of Joe than of Joe’s sons. ;-)”

    Another leftist spin. He was forced into the Hitler Youth like all German kids. Thats what fascist love to do. Force people into programs.

  145. “Answer me this, Israel took the West Bank and Gaza in 1967 from the Egyptians and the Jordanians in the Six Day war. Israel came into existance in 1948. So, Egypt and Jordan controled the West Bank and Gaza for 19 years- why didn’t they establish a Palestinian state?”

    I have asked that same question a million times and not one person remotely sympathetic to the Palis has ever answered. You know why? Deep down they know it isnt about about a Pali state. Its about the destruction of Israel. Hence thats why both Hamas and Fatah, have in their charters advocating the destruction of Israel. And which the Palis democratically elected these 2 groups. Something poor ‘ol DOIAD didnt want to deal with so he spewed some hate and ran off like a coward. There will never be peace with these people. EVER.

  146. Think Islamic Jew-hatred is a byproduct of “occupation”? Think again.

    In 1929 Jews in Hebron were living on land they had “occupied” for 3,000 years. “Remembering the Hebron Massacre: Until 1929, Jews had lived in the city for three millennia,” by Jerold S. Auerbach in the Wall Street Journal, August 27 (thanks to Dan):

    […] On Aug. 23-24, 1929, the Jewish community of Hebron was exiled following a horrific pogrom. The tragedy is known as Tarpat, an acronym for its date in the Hebrew calendar.

    Until 1929, Jews had lived in Hebron for three millennia. There, according to Jewish tradition, Abraham purchased the cave of Machpelah to bury Sarah. It was the first parcel of land owned by the Jewish people in their promised land. Ever since, religious Jews revered Hebron as the burial site of their matriarchs and patriarchs. Conquered, massacred and expelled over the centuries, Jews always returned to this sacred place.

    After 1267, under Muslim rule, no Jews were permitted to pray inside the magnificent enclosure, built by King Herod in the 1st century, that still surrounds the burial caves. But following the expulsion of Jews from Spain at the end of the 15th century, a small group of religious Jews rebuilt a community of study and prayer in Hebron.

    In August 1929, that community was suddenly and brutally attacked. Incited by the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem—who claimed that Jews were endangering Muslim holy sites on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem—Arab rioters swept through Palestine. In Hebron, the carnage was horrendous.

    It began on Friday afternoon when Arabs attacked Jews with clubs and murdered a yeshiva student. The next morning, joined by local villagers, Arabs swarmed through Hebron screaming “Kill the Jews.” They broke into the home of Eliezer Dan Slonim, where many Jews had gathered for safety. There they wielded knives and axes to murder 22 innocents. In the Anglo-Palestine Bank, where 23 corpses were discovered, blood covered the tile floor. That day, three children under the age of five were murdered. Teenage girls, their mothers and grandmothers were raped and killed. Rabbis and their students were castrated before they were slain. A surviving yeshiva student recounted that he “had seen greater horrors than Dante in hell.”

    When the slaughter finally subsided, 67 Jews had been murdered. Three days later, British soldiers evacuated 484 survivors, including 153 children, to Jerusalem. The butchery in Hebron, Zionist and religious officials alleged, was “without equal in the history of the country since the destruction of the Temple.” Sir Walter Shaw, chairman of an exhaustive British royal investigation, concluded that “unspeakable atrocities” had occurred. […]

    Hebron Jews are relentlessly vilified as fanatics who illegally occupy someone else’s land. As religious Zionists, they are the militant Jewish settlers whom legions of Jewish and non-Jewish critics love to hate. It is seldom noticed that their most serious transgression—settlement in the biblical land of Israel—is the definition of Zionism: the return of Jews to their historic homeland.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027388.php#respond

    The same Grand Mufti who allied with the Nazis and also Arafat’s uncle.

  147. 210!

    That’s just as annoying as some person saying “first!” when they’re the first comment.

    Anything that annoys the juvenile and rambling Sensico is always good in my book. 🙂

  148. dude, what is up with this 2 links therefore get sent to moderation

    I don’t like it any better than you do, especially when you post a delicious comment like the one I just approved.

    I’ll go into wordpress and see there is a setting I can fiddle with.

  149. Update … there was indeed a setting I could fiddle with.

    Word to the wise, if you put four or more links in a comment it will go to moderation. 3 or fewer should fly through just fine.

    Your friendly blog owner,
    Rutherford

  150. 210!

    ROTFLMAO … Tex your wise-ass move backfired on you because when I approved Sensico’s comment, held in moderation, it pushed your 210 to 211.

    That’s what you get for playing kindergarten games just to piss off Sensico. 🙂 👿

  151. How a Detainee Became An Asset
    Sept. 11 Plotter Cooperated After Waterboarding

    By Peter Finn, Joby Warrick and Julie Tate
    Washington Post Staff Writers
    Saturday, August 29, 2009

    After enduring the CIA’s harshest interrogation methods and spending more than a year in the agency’s secret prisons, Khalid Sheik Mohammed stood before U.S. intelligence officers in a makeshift lecture hall, leading what they called “terrorist tutorials.”

    In 2005 and 2006, the bearded, pudgy man who calls himself the mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks discussed a wide variety of subjects, including Greek philosophy and al-Qaeda dogma. In one instance, he scolded a listener for poor note-taking and his inability to recall details of an earlier lecture.

    Speaking in English, Mohammed “seemed to relish the opportunity, sometimes for hours on end, to discuss the inner workings of al-Qaeda and the group’s plans, ideology and operatives,” said one of two sources who described the sessions, speaking on the condition of anonymity because much information about detainee confinement remains classified. “He’d even use a chalkboard at times.”

    These scenes provide previously unpublicized details about the transformation of the man known to U.S. officials as KSM from an avowed and truculent enemy of the United States into what the CIA called its “preeminent source” on al-Qaeda. This reversal occurred after Mohammed was subjected to simulated drowning and prolonged sleep deprivation, among other harsh interrogation techniques.

    “KSM, an accomplished resistor, provided only a few intelligence reports prior to the use of the waterboard, and analysis of that information revealed that much of it was outdated, inaccurate or incomplete,” according to newly unclassified portions of a 2004 report by the CIA’s then-inspector general released Monday by the Justice Department.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/28/AR2009082803874_pf.html

    Well you can kiss all that goodbye. We now have a “CIC” That hates this country so much he rather go after the CIA than al-Qaeda.

  152. My old buddy “R”,

    That’s what you get for playing kindergarten games just to piss off Sensico.

    It will be six years before the petulant child figures that out. Math doesn’t appear to be her bag either. Add to the fact it gave my buddy a gotcha moment with old Tex without insult, it was doubly effective. I still win. 😉

  153. Elric,

    Distasteful, to say the least. But you have to remember, this is the same clan that turned the Wellstone funeral into an orgy on stage. I knew then that libs had no shame. All the Wellstone event lacked was a human sacrifice.

    Can you imagine being called KiKi Kennedy? KKK? 😆

    Good thing those Kennedy types are rich. They sure ain’t pretty. That part is for you Rutherford.

  154. Tex,

    I cant say that I am shocked after the disgraceful display at the Wellstone funeral.

    Shall we take a wager on if Dodger ignores it? Be pretty hard for him to give a lame spin on it.

  155. Elric,

    No, my bet is that Rutherford will come back with the solemn nature and beauty of including the kids in the funeral, never understanding the political hackdom that mixes with the Kennedy nature of their “spirituality”. I must assume that unlike the Kennedy family, Rutherford now believes Uncle Ted worm dirt.

    How about Rutherford? And to answer your question Rutherford about forgiveness, yes I believe in it, including for Teddy Kennedy. However, it is not my place to forgive because I have few feelings for the man or the family as I’ve had little interaction. The Kennedys are certainly not folks I hold in high esteem – and other than the far left, I don’t many people who do.

    But forgiveness also requires admission of sin. Whatever, Teddy has now answered for it.

  156. Tex,

    And this is the same guy accusing Palin of “exploiting” her kids. He would be the ul;ultimate hypocrite if he doesnt show the same rage over this as he did with Palin.

  157. “But forgiveness also requires admission of sin.”

    Thats the crux of it. He never showed any remorse for what he did. Never paid a price for it. Even cracked jokes about it. Therefore he didnt deserve forgiveness.

  158. “Something poor ‘ol DOIAD didnt want to deal with so he spewed some hate and ran off like a coward.”

    Oh, I am still here now and then watching you copy and paste articles like a good little drone unable to think for himself.

    And my rant had nothing to do with the Arab-Israeli issue. It had to do with FGM and your claim that I support it. Evidently you do need it spelled out for you in man-juice. Sorry I don’t communicate in that medium. Perhaps you can get one of your “friends” to “translate” it for you.

    “I have asked that same question a million times and not one person remotely sympathetic to the Palis has ever answered.”

    Care to quote yourself on that?

    Gorilla, even though I suspect your question what rhetorical, I will take it on. But I will start with saying that I agree, the Arab states play a huge role in perpetuating this issue. And it won’t begin to be resolved until they start wanting to really play ball and accept Israel.

    Just so everyone else here is in on the history background (NOT because I want to show off, as DR might like to think)….

    The UN officially partitioned the territories of Israel and Palestine in late 1947. Arab states rejected it, I assume because it recognized the territory of Israel. Probably not the best political move in hindsight. Soon after, Israel decared independence, and most of the world recognized it anyway. Palestinians didn’t have the strength or support Israel had, and could not do the same.

    The next step comes with the Rhodes talks that ended the 1947-1949 Arab-Israeli war. Large chunks of what had been Palestinian territory became Israel’s outright. Pretty much all the rest was annexed or administered by surrounding Arab countries, which they held until taken from them in 1967 at the end of the 6-Day War.

    Getting to the heart of the question that Elric could never muster the intelligence to present, I suspect that the importance of the Middle East in Cold War geostrategy had more than a bit to do with it. By the 50’s there were already enough Middle East states in play for 1 side or the other. Did anyone really want to add 1 or 2 more by creating them? Who knows what they might do and who they might do it with? And in such proximity to Israel? No way.

    Plus by then, Jordan and Egypt could use Palestine as bargaining chips played against the US and Russia, too. Palestine represented more territory close to a major US ally. Why would they give that up?

    As you said, ultimately, the rest of the Middle East has to come around. It has had several opportunities, in which it has foolishly passed.

    More immediately, rockets and suicide bombers need to stop coming from 1 side, and the other side could back its ass off a little bit on settlements and sieges. It has made only token attempts at either. Each side doing that would put political pressure on the other to come to an agreement. I think Jerusalem is also a “roadblock to peace” (I hate that term but its the best I got on the fly). Taking it out of the equasion would put political pressure on all Arabs to play ball.

    We really can’t fully address this question until we address another question.

    Why didn’t the British do something about this? Let’s not forget who drew up the lines that make up the Middle East we see on the map. They had the chance before anyone else to settle this before it even began. Why didn’t they?

    Here’s why….

    In my opinion, the Middle East looks exactly like post-WWI Britain wanted it to look. Full of states that have no business being the states that they are. States with populations and cultures so diverse, voiding any sense of nationalism, that it requires oppresive despots to control them. States that could and still can be easily manipulated, because they require foreign aid to help in their oppressive control.

    Britain had full control over the Levant (the area of Israel and Palestine) until the UN, and then Israel, took away its puppet strings over the region in 1947.

    And let’s not forget Lord Balfour’s role in all of this.

    Asked and answered. So fuck you very much, Elric. And have a great rainbow-filled day.

  159. “Palestinians didn’t have the strength or support Israel had, and could not do the same.”

    Oh those poor poor Palis. They gambled on the Jews being ran into the sea and lost. Booo hooo

  160. “Evidently you do need it spelled out for you in man-juice.”

    My my. Someone has an angry homophobe streak. You suppressing some hidden desires and making you lash out in such vulgar language? You might want to seek some professional health before you hurt yourself or hurt someone else.

  161. “Getting to the heart of the question that Elric could never muster the intelligence to present, I suspect that the importance of the Middle East in Cold War geostrategy had more than a bit to do with it. By the 50’s there were already enough Middle East states in play for 1 side or the other. Did anyone really want to add 1 or 2 more by creating them? Who knows what they might do and who they might do it with? And in such proximity to Israel? No way.”

    LOL That is the lamest excuse Ive heard yet on why they didnt establish a Pali state between 48-67. Unless my facts are wrong, the Cold War didnt end in 1967. So why was the Pali state only important once Israel won the lands in the war? Cold War went on for 2 more decades. Your uncontrollable anger is really affecting your thought process DOIAD. Seek help while you can. 🙂

  162. lmao the longer this thread gets the more hilarious $hit happens

    For once we can agree. What was the topic again? 😆

  163. “Britain had full control over the Levant (the area of Israel and Palestine) until the UN, and then Israel, took away its puppet strings over the region in 1947.”-Red Pill

    I think Britain was very happy to let it go. Didn’t they kind of throw their hands in the air and say enough after the Jews blew that hotel up and started sniping soldiers?

    I was in a bar the other day in which the old man tending was your classic Turk hating Greek. He was from Cyprus and he actually fought the Brits too after WW2.

    Just strikes me kind off odd that for a short time, Jews and Greeks were fighting Brits after WW2.

  164. Palestinian jihadists fire another rocket, shells into Israel

    But…but…they sincerely want peace!

    “IAF strikes Gaza smuggling tunnel after Qassam attack,” from Haaretz, August 30 (thanks to all who sent this in):

    Israel Air Force planes struck a tunnel in the northern Gaza Strip early Sunday, after Palestinian militants in Gaza fired a Qassam rocket into the western Negev early Saturday.

    The rocket hit an open area in the Sdot Negev regional council.

    The Palestinian Maan news agency reported on Saturday that the Israel Defense Force fired artillery rounds at gunmen at the central Gaza Strip. No injuries were reported.

    The IDF said in response that no such attack took place.

    According to the report, the IDF also opened machine-gun fire from vehicles stationed on the border toward nearby central Gaza homes.

    The Qassam, fired at around 6 A.M., was one of several military incidents along Israel’s boarder with Gaza, coming after months of relative calm.

    On Tuesday, Gaza militants fired two mortar shells at the western Negev, which landed near an Israel Defense Forces base…

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027400.php#respond

    This should cheer DOIAD up.

  165. DR: “I think Britain was very happy to let it go. Didn’t they kind of throw their hands in the air and say enough after the Jews blew that hotel up and started sniping soldiers?”

    Yeah. I just got negative at the end there.

    At the same time, post-WWII Britian was not the same as post-WWI Britain. Post-WWI Britain still saw itself as a colonial power, and wanted to keep future colonial options open.

    Plus Jews blowing up a hotel and sniping soldiers would kind of go towards Israel removing Britains puppet strings, wouldn’t you agree?

    Elric: “This should cheer DOIAD up.”

    Right. Because my very last comment specifically said that they need to stop doing that. I can see where a dumbass such as yourself could get that confused with my support of those actions.

    “Unless my facts are wrong, the Cold War didnt end in 1967”

    It’s not your facts that need work, it is your reading comprehension.

    Maybe you didn’t catch this important part of the question you claim to have asked a million times.

    “So, Egypt and Jordan controled the West Bank and Gaza for 19 years- why didn’t they establish a Palestinian state?”

    They didn’t control the West Bank or Gaza after 1967. So they couldn’t well turn them into Palestinian states after that, could they?

    And I only make fun of you being a queer because it obviously gets on your nerves enough that you comment on it. If you enjoy having unnatural sex with other men, what do I care? I’m multicultural, remember?

  166. “They didn’t control the West Bank or Gaza after 1967. So they couldn’t well turn them into Palestinian states after that, could they?”

    No. It just became an issue after they lost control of it. Never was an issue when they did control the West Bank and Gaza. They had 19 years to give the savages a statehood but they didnt. Why is that DOIAD? We both know it had nothing to do with the Cold War.

    “And I only make fun of you being a queer because it obviously gets on your nerves enough that you comment on it.”

    Nice try at backpedaling homophobe. 🙂

  167. Speaking of backpedalling, where is the quote of your question you’ve asked a million times? I notice you haven’t produced it yet.

    Are you going to support your lie that you have asked that question even once, let alone “a million times”? Or are we left to assume that you simply talk shit you can’t back up when challenged?

    “No. It just became an issue after they lost control of it.”

    That wasn’t part of the question, was it? The question was why didn’t they do it while they had it? Not why did it become an issue after they lost it.

    Again—reading comprehension. You seem to be having a terrible time with it, lately. Must be from all of that copy and pasting you do.

    “We both know it had nothing to do with the Cold War.”

    Since I am wrong, feel free to enlighten us all with the facts.

  168. Sensico,

    I have read the bill now, much more than I can say for you. Why do I need to re-say what someone quite eloquently pointed out?

  169. “At the same time, post-WWII Britian was not the same as post-WWI Britain. Post-WWI Britain still saw itself as a colonial power, and wanted to keep future colonial options open.”

    Yeah, agreed. Yet they still found themselves fighting Greeks on Cyprus after World War II. That is a weird factoid to me.

    Hell, I think it must have been late into the ’50s actually. Of course, my source is the bartender from some old school bar. 🙂

    I’m oblivious to British relations with it’s colonies after World War II.

    However, unbeliebably, I would say France’s colonial aspirations after WW2 were the same as WW1 to some extent. They fought hard to keep Algeria. What a bunch of dicks.

    Kind of ironic that Algeria ended up colonizing France.

  170. Referring to Medicaid it those eligible for Medicaid have not chosen a plan then they’ll be put on this plan for a short period of time. It’s for low income people anyways that are already poor.” — Sensico

    What? This plan being Medicaid or the public option? Neither you or the bill is clear on this. If there is any change in your current coverage, per H.R. 3200- the only bill we have right now-, you will be forced to go to the public option. Currently, there is an amendment floating about I believe it is H.R. 676, that essentially requires a single payer system. The point is, once you are on the public option, you can’t get off of it, whether you want to or not.

    Under the HR 3200 bill it regulates the insurance companies which means they cant work people over, not cover for pre-existing conditions and so forth. I don’t see where the problem is.” — Sensico

    Since your daddy likely pays for your current coverage, I don’t expect you to understand this. While the pre-existing condition element of insurance is not politically correct, most don’t realize that it is there for the benefit of everyone else.

    Lets say someone has brain cancer and its the kind that can only be treated with this special machine being built in Pennsylvania. It will cost $90K per treatment and you will need 6 treatments, so total cost is $540K. Now, imagine this person jumps onto a plan with this and immediately starts pulling money for the treatment- they’ve paid little to nothing into the plan and the money providing the coverage will come from yours and my assets in the insurance company. Now imagine a large number of these people begin to do this, pretty soon, the insurance company is going to be in a position that it will have to raise rates to cover expenses because it is required by law to have so many assets on hand. The public option won’t have this burden because it can go to the eternal trough- the tax payer. When Obama says that the public option will be run just like the private options, he is lying through his teeth because he damn well understands that the public option doesn’t have to worry about profits or deficits. Couple this with the fact that the bill intentionally makes it easier to dump people onto the public option than to keep them in private plans, it is easy to see this as a single payer Trojan horse.

    So no, you won’t be able to keep your current plan or Doctor because they’re most likely going to go broke and out of business because of this. Smooth genius, real smooth.

  171. “Rabbit, your constant rambling about me and what I write is rather obsessive. Leave it alone, deal with it, I am not going to change just because you want to whine about my blog calling out your party.”-sensico

    You do realize that you have started to set quite a pattern here. “Leave it alone”. “Deal with it”. “I stand by what I said”.

    Seems to be your only retort when people call you out. No logic. No reason. Nothing.

    Do you realize how silly you constantly look here?

    1. I said the dude should have read the bill and bitched about it.
    2. I pointed out what an asinine subject that was for you to write on becuase NOBODY is reading the bill.

    acceptable responses to the Rabbit by sensico

    1. ignore the Rabbit
    2. explain, in light of the fact that the hundreds of people in Congress who are for the bill but have not read it, why you feel it’s a “gotcha moment” becuase a Republican who is against the bill didn’t read it.
    3. Simply agree with the Rabbit.

    You post your drivel online. I call it out for what it is.

    However, I suppose if you find me “obsessive”, I will stop reading your garbage and give your blog back to the crickets that chirp over there.

    You will never admit as such, but it really is your loss.

    That, my friend, is a major difference between you and Rutherford.

  172. The public option won’t have this burden because it can go to the eternal trough- the tax payer.

    I guess we need more policy wonks like you in Washington Gorilla.

    Obama has stated the public option will run like a business on premium contributions from its participants. It will not be funded by taxpayers. To say that every positive claim about health care reform, every answer to your concerns, is a lie simply paints you as extremely paranoid, or cynical, or both.

  173. Gorilla needs to lighten up. I can’t believe how paranoid he is. I for one thought Obama sold health care brilliantly by bringing up the Post Office.

    Besides, Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are doing great.

    I mean, it would be one thing if Gorilla had Obama on tape saying the way to universal is through a public option bill.

    Jeesh. What a skitzo.

  174. If there is any change in your current coverage, per H.R. 3200- the only bill we have right now-, you will be forced to go to the public option.

    Do me a favor and start quoting the bill either by copy and paste or by section number. Otherwise, we’re just talking about baseless claims. Sensico has done us all a service by pointing to a link to the actual bill. Let’s use it.

    SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE.

    (a) Grandfathered Health Insurance Coverage Defined- Subject to the succeeding provisions of this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable coverage under this division, the term `grandfathered health insurance coverage’ means individual health insurance coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:

    (1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT-

    (A) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1.

    (B) DEPENDENT COVERAGE PERMITTED- Subparagraph (A) shall not affect the subsequent enrollment of a dependent of an individual who is covered as of such first day.

    (2) LIMITATION ON CHANGES IN TERMS OR CONDITIONS- Subject to paragraph (3) and except as required by law, the issuer does not change any of its terms or conditions, including benefits and cost-sharing, from those in effect as of the day before the first day of Y1.

    (3) RESTRICTIONS ON PREMIUM INCREASES- The issuer cannot vary the percentage increase in the premium for a risk group of enrollees in specific grandfathered health insurance coverage without changing the premium for all enrollees in the same risk group at the same rate, as specified by the Commissioner.

    I assume this is what Obama is referring to when he talks about a “firewall”. The bill defines grandfathered policies such that current health insurance recipients are not forced to change their current choice.

  175. “Do me a favor and start quoting the bill either by copy and paste or by section number.”-r

    I agree. We really should start doing that.

  176. It will not be funded by taxpayers?

    Now DR, I admit I only skimmed your link, but I don’t see where it says tax hikes are the answer. Granted it casts a gloom and doom on various other methods of cost control but I’m not sure I see working alternatives suggested and the CBO readily admits they don’t have a crystal ball on the matter.

    Also, I see lots of methods cited by the CBO as not doing enough but they don’t necessarily have anything to do with the public option. So, if 3200 sucks, even without the public option, what are we to do? Stand pat while people are denied coverage in the wealthiest nation on the planet?

    I’ll tell you one thing, and granted it’s a simplistic observation, but when you publish a 1000 page bill, you’ve basically set up a huge target for naysayers. It’s almost like the friggin’ Bible. Folks can take what they want from it, twist what they want from it, etc.

  177. Gorilla needs to lighten up.

    Once again it’s Saturday Night at the Rutherford Improv.

    The only thing stupid that Obama said about the post office was when he used it as an example of not particularly good competition for private endeavors like UPS and FedEx.

    Just how messed up can the postal service be when for a lousy 43 cents (or whatever it is now, I’ve lost track) you can have some dude pick up your mail, send it across the country, and within about three days, another dude delivers it to the person you wrote to. And pretty damn reliably I might add. You argue they’ve got cost issues. Everybody has cost issues right now. It doesn’t completely invalidate the postal service as a valuable one.

    Same for Medicare. Financially in trouble, but with a huge customer sat rating. The government has the same cost control issues as private industry. But to say they can’t deliver quality service is just not true.

  178. “Stand pat while people are denied coverage in the wealthiest nation on the planet?”

    Yes.

    There are so many people who can afford coverage but elect to buy big houses, big tvs and little cell phones. I wish we had a stat on how many people are in that boat.

    As for the 1,000 pages of babble, lets shred that bitch with a giant Ockham’s razor.

  179. To Elric because I’m in a humble mood tonight:

    I was off the mark to refer to Palestine as a country. The “Palestinian State” is recognized by some countries as a sovereign governmental entity, as far as I can tell, not by the US. (That may be problem #1.) My understanding is the Palestinian State does have some standing in the United Nations.

    So, while technically, I can’t call it a universally recognized country, I can at least say it is a governed entity with whom Israel could work.

    You guys have posted some thoughtful stuff on this matter and I’ll need to digest it some more. This whole point of the primary goal of the region being the destruction of Israel is worth considering. But here’s an even bigger question for you. Was the establishment of Israel in 1948 a good idea in the first place? It is one thing for a country to be predominantly one religion (as many Islamic countries are) but is it proper to set up a country from the outset based on their religious practice? Was there some other way to afford Jews protection from persecution other than having them establish a country?

  180. I actually was a mailman for one day. It was terrible and I sucked at it.

    I always thought what makes the post office profitable was those stamped letters Grandma sends you.

    Nay, nay. It’s junk mail. Junk mail funds the post office. Yet, I don’t know of one person who likes that pulp.

    So, Americans deal with junk mail becuase we have to.

    The Rabbit just disappeared around 3 P.M. I was hired on a “remote route” where I had to drive my car from the passenger seat (not kidding) and deliver mail in the country.

    I wasn’t done sorting by the time seasoned vets were done with their route.

    The whole time I just kept thinking being a mail man isn’t for me. The idea hit me that I am free and nothing is stopping me from walking out the door and just quitting.

    This was actually a profound thought for me to have due to being out of the military for maybe only a year or two.

    Away I went.

    I remember laughing hysterically in my car for some reason as squealed and peeled out of there.

    I even got paid for a full two weeks becuase of the training i did.

  181. I’ll end the night returning to one of the subjects of the main post.

    I watched a lot of Ted Kennedy’s funeral today. If I put aside for a moment what I consider to be real “out there” stuff … e.g. talk of a benevolent God who let two of Kennedy’s brothers get blown away, and I work hard to be “Catholic for a day”, then I can come away with only one conclusion … that Tex and Elric are incredible hypocrites. I’m exempting Dead Rabbit because he has expressed struggle with buying the whole religion thing.

    I saw today what Catholicism teaches about life and about sin and about redemption. These priests saw fit today to commend Ted Kennedy’s soul to the “kingdom of the Lord”. They did so knowing the terrible event that for Tex and Elric completely defines him. So I have to wonder, when Tex and Elric call for the “POS” to rot in hell, how many funerals do they attend? Were all those funerals for perfect people? Are they secretly sitting in the pew while the preacher asks God’s mercy, and saying under their breath “f*ck mercy, to hell with him.”

    Tex, in particular claims to be a devout Christian. If the respected priests of Boston Massachusetts saw fit to commend Kennedy to God’s mercy, who the hell are you to say otherwise?

    As for Elric’s claim that Kennedy showed no remorse. Kennedy in the final months of his life, wrote to the Pope and said among other things, that he had done wrong but had tried to “straighten his path”. Sounds like remorse to me.

    For all you guys, it’s your prerogative to be vindictive. It’s your right. It’s human. But from my one “day as a Catholic”, I see fully well that it’s not Christian. So the next time you fellas go Bible quoting, I’ll simply say to myself “you’re full of sh*t” and I’ll move on to the next comment.

    Good night.

  182. “it is a governed entity with whom Israel could work.”

    How is that? The West Bank and Gaza are in a de facto war with themselves!

  183. You can’t enjoy one day of being a Catholic without enduring one night of guilt.

    It’s at least a 24 hour gig, buddy.

  184. gosh, Rabbit stop being so melodramatic. Complaining most the time about how I respond to you is so nagging that I only wish for you to ignore my comments all together. And how was your comment about your inability to be a mailman relevant to anything discussed? Assuming and hoping you ignore this comment, I’ll assume it wasn’t relevant, just on you feel-sorry-for-self soapbox that you always get on.

    There are so many people who can afford coverage but elect to buy big houses, big tvs and little cell phones. I wish we had a stat on how many people are in that boat

    oh sure, the price of health care is equivalent to the TV and phones 🙄 And people who can afford big houses most likely already have employer based health care.

  185. Elric: “Oh those poor poor Palis. They gambled on the Jews being ran into the sea and lost. Booo hooo”

    No. It was the surrounding Arab states that banked on that.

    Again—reading comprehension.

    DR: “Yet they still found themselves fighting Greeks on Cyprus after World War II. That is a weird factoid to me. ”

    A quick Google search led me to this Wiki piece. That might be the story. It’s 1955.

    “However, unbeliebably, I would say France’s colonial aspirations after WW2 were the same as WW1 to some extent. They fought hard to keep Algeria. What a bunch of dicks. ”

    Vietnam too. We fight to liberate their country, and rebuild it afterward, and they spend war resources to hang on to colonies.

    Dicks indeed.

    Rutherford: “As for Elric’s claim that Kennedy showed no remorse. Kennedy in the final months of his life, wrote to the Pope and said among other things, that he had done wrong but had tried to “straighten his path”. Sounds like remorse to me.”

    Death-bed remorse doesn’t absolve manslaughter and decades of hedonism.

    It is wrong to discount the service he gave to our country. I don’t agree with his politics, but I can’t deny his service. But it is equally wrong to discount the wrongs he did. He treated women like shit, and 1 in particular even worse. I can’t believe such a self-proclaimed advocate for women’s issues as yourself isn’t more appauled.

    After all, it’s not like he left Sarah Palin to die. Mary Jo was one of your fellow liberals who had just as much chance to go on to do what you would think was great things as Teddy did.

    “I was off the mark to refer to Palestine as a country. The “Palestinian State” is recognized by some countries as a sovereign governmental entity, as far as I can tell, not by the US. (That may be problem #1.) My understanding is the Palestinian State does have some standing in the United Nations.”

    The Palestinian state is recognized by about 100 states. It has non-voting observer status in the UN. Which means it gets to sit quietly up in the stands above the floor with other internation organizations. (Not saying that is right or wrong..just saying)

    “So, while technically, I can’t call it a universally recognized country, I can at least say it is a governed entity with whom Israel could work.”

    It isn’t that simple. As DR pointed out, there is not a cohesive government. Just as Palestine is fragmented geographically, it is also fragmented politically. And not like we are, but by violent factions. That makes negotiations that much more difficult…as in impossible.

  186. “And not like we are, but by violent factions”

    That just got me thinking….

    In the Federalist Papers, Alexander Hamilton writes a lot about the history of violent factions gaining power in direct democracies in his support for the Federalist alternative that we eventually got.

    Both Gaza and West Bank have direct democracy. Mob rule.

    Just a little tidbit that might only be interesting to me.

  187. “That wasn’t part of the question, was it? The question was why didn’t they do it while they had it? Not why did it become an issue after they lost it.”

    LOL You cant answer the question can you?

  188. “Since I am wrong, feel free to enlighten us all with the facts.”

    Like Gorilla said, the Palis are the pariahs of the Middle East for Arabs. They dont give a damn about them. They are just used as proxies for war against the Jews. I can understand why the Arabs hate the Palis. Black September is a good example why.

  189. “So, while technically, I can’t call it a universally recognized country, I can at least say it is a governed entity with whom Israel could work.”

    Really? Its governed by 2 entities that advocate its destruction.

  190. “As for Elric’s claim that Kennedy showed no remorse. Kennedy in the final months of his life, wrote to the Pope and said among other things, that he had done wrong but had tried to “straighten his path”. Sounds like remorse to me.”

    Sounds like a guy knowing he is going to die real soon and trying to BS his way through because he is scared of the Afterlife.

  191. DR,

    And lets not forget Dead Kennedy’s dying wish. To change a law he himself changed just a few years ago to benefit his party. He was a scumbag to his death.

  192. “I watched a lot of Ted Kennedy’s funeral today.”

    I was right Tex. Dodger wouldnt touch the kid at the funeral pimping socialized health care.

  193. “Was the establishment of Israel in 1948 a good idea in the first place? It is one thing for a country to be predominantly one religion (as many Islamic countries are) but is it proper to set up a country from the outset based on their religious practice.”

    Islamic nations were set up the same way. Dont hear you complaining.

  194. “No. It was the surrounding Arab states that banked on that.”

    Them too. The Palis were promised all of Israel since they consider that part of “Palestine” They got greedy and lost. Even today they still feel the same way.

  195. “I was off the mark to refer to Palestine as a country. The “Palestinian State” is recognized by some countries as a sovereign governmental entity, as far as I can tell, not by the US. (That may be problem #1.) My understanding is the Palestinian State does have some standing in the United Nations.”

    Why is that a problem? Would you recognize a nation governed by al-Qaeda?

  196. Massachusetts: the laboratory for ObamaCare
    posted at 4:30 pm on August 29, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
    Share on Facebook | printer-friendly

    Earlier this month, we used DirigoChoice in Maine as an example of the disaster a public-plan health-care reform can generate. Cato Institute looks a little farther down the coast to Massachusetts, where the state began its own health-care reform complete with individual mandates and a government plan. Cato calls it an “almost perfect” mirror of ObamaCare, complete with promises of reducing cost and extending care — that failed in both respects:

    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/29/massachusetts-the-laboratory-for-obamacare/

    Is this what you wish on the nation Dodger?

  197. “Obama has stated the public option will run like a business on premium contributions from its participants. It will not be funded by taxpayers. To say that every positive claim about health care reform, every answer to your concerns, is a lie simply paints you as extremely paranoid, or cynical, or both.”

    Just like the Post Office runs on its business prowess…

    Shall we consider what you wrote…

    “SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE.

    …if the following conditions are met:

    (2) LIMITATION ON CHANGES IN TERMS OR CONDITIONS- Subject to paragraph (3) and except as required by law, the issuer does not change any of its terms or conditions, including benefits and cost-sharing, from those in effect as of the day before the first day of Y1.

    (3) RESTRICTIONS ON PREMIUM INCREASES- The issuer cannot vary the percentage increase in the premium for a risk group of enrollees in specific grandfathered health insurance coverage without changing the premium for all enrollees in the same risk group at the same rate, as specified by the Commissioner.

    R, you got to read the words. As you can see, any changes removes the grandfather claus.

  198. Rutherford,

    Tex, in particular claims to be a devout Christian. If the respected priests of Boston Massachusetts saw fit to commend Kennedy to God’s mercy, who the hell are you to say otherwise?

    Is this the same man who refers to me as hypocrite, yet calls his own Creator on the carpet 🙄 to blame the Creator for two of the Kennedy brothers being shot by two thugs? As if somehow because God has endowed man with free will (a necessary prerequisite for true love) and they exercised that free will poorly by choosing to take the life of another man, God is somehow responsible for the murder?

    Rutherford, nowhere have I condemned Ted Kennedy to hell – find exactly where I have said that please. I am not worthy to be judge and jury which I have said many times. I simply said that as of this week, Teddy Kennedy was judged for his sins.

    I hate to be the one to tell you this, but I predict in the end of your time, you will recognize that though I am sure all of us, me included, can be hypocritical, it will be you that was the greatest hypocrite on the blog known as Rutherford Lawson.

    For you blame the only one that is truly innocent of man’s egregious sins, though you currently do not recognize that simple fact. And there is no greater degree of hypocrisy or ingratitude than that my friend. 😉

    Your hostility toward your Creator will have hurt no one but yourself. Rutherford, you truly are a troubled person – from the heart.

  199. Cheney speaks the truth. Now if Dodger can put up a counter argument to what Cheney laid out, Id love to hear it. But he wont.

    FOX — Calling it a “terrible decision” that undermines national security and devastates CIA morale, former Vice President Dick Cheney slammed the Obama administration’s probe of aggressive interrogation of terrorists.

    “It’s an outrageous political act that will do great damage, long-term, to our capacity to be able to have people take on difficult jobs, make difficult decisions, without having to worry about what the next administration is going to say,” Cheney told “FOX News Sunday” in a no-holds-barred interview.

    In blunt, unsparing language, Cheney accused President Obama of setting a “terrible precedent” by launching an “intensely partisan, politicized look back at the prior administration.” He seemed to question Obama’s fitness as commander-in-chief.

    “I have serious doubts about his policies,” Cheney told FOX News’ Chris Wallace in Jackson Hole, Wyo. “Serious doubts, especially, about the extent to which he understands and is prepared to do what needs to be done to defend the nation.”

    Cheney ridiculed the new unit, which will be known as the High-Value Detainee Interrogation Group (HIG).

    “It’s not even clear who’s responsible,” he marveled. “The Justice Department is, then they claim they aren’t. The FBI is responsible, and they claim they aren’t. It’s some kind of interagency process by which they’re going to be responsible for interrogating high-value detainees.

    “If we had tried to do that back in the aftermath of 9/11, when we captured Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of 9/11, we’d have gotten no place,” he said.

    Cheney predicted the new unit will be incapable of effectively interrogating “people that may have knowledge about imminent attacks.”

    “They’re going to have to have meetings and decide who gets to ask what question and who’s going to Mirandize the witness,” he said. “I think it’s silly. It makes no sense. It doesn’t appear to be a serious move in terms of being able to deal with the nation’s security.”

    Cheney warned that curtailing the CIA’s role in interrogations is a grave mistake.

    “I think it’s a direct slap at the CIA. I don’t think it will work,” he said. “It moves very much in the direction of going back to the old way of looking at these terrorist attacks — that these are law enforcement problems, that this isn’t a strategic threat to the United States.”

    But Cheney reserved his strongest criticism for Attorney General Eric Holder’s decision Monday to appoint a prosecutor and open a criminal investigation into alleged abuses by CIA agents who interrogated terrorists during the administration of former President George W. Bush. The former vice president accused Obama of breaking a promise not to prosecute the agents.

    “We had the president of the United States, President Obama, tell us a few months ago there wouldn’t be any investigation like this, that there would not be any look back at CIA personnel who were carrying out the policies of the prior administration,” Cheney said. “Now they get a little heat from the left wing of the Democratic Party, and they’re reversing course on that.”

  200. Elric,

    Rutherford is personally immersed in leftist politic. And he is very knowledgeable of supporting his side, as it obvious that is his interest. I give him kudos for his representation of progressive politics. It is a shame that he can’t take that sharp mind and strive to determine and learn things more important.

    I don’t think Rutherford comprehends the shallowness of his interests, for once beyond the question of like and dislike of public agenda, his arguments incredibly superficial. But to each their own.

  201. @Sensico….Actually it is a well documented fact that one of the biggest demos of non covered people are self employed people making pretty good cake. Single,married and family types who live the wave that is the entrepreneurial spirit that powers the USA often choose not to pay a bill that is health insurance.

    Respected priests of Boston. I’ll mop the puddle of laugh piss I made after reading that. Perverts,liars and all round scumbags are titles that fit many of the Boston Catholic professionals. They’re arrogant too. Least I forget to say how absolutely un-Biblical the Catholic Church is to boot. Using their views toward Teddy is weak.

  202. Alfie,

    I didn’t mention to old Rutherford that Boston’s priests were front and center in the pedophilia scandal – but since that too has been used by libs to denounce all of Catholicism, I didn’t.

    ———————————————————

    Remember all those anti Bush stickers that libs attached to their car (usually the paint of the car because they don’t have much sense).

    Well, I’ve found me one that I’m going to purchase for my old truck. I am rather fond of the Corrupt one…

    http://www.antiobamasticker.com/

  203. And I have to hand it to Alfie for pointing out the utter hypocrisy of Dodger using the Boston Catholic priest as examples.

    Many of them will be room mates of Dead Ted.

  204. Damn sensico, you don’t even have comprehension skills to tell when I’m feeling sorry for myself and when I’m not.

    I thought that the fact I was a mailman for one day and couldn’t hack it to be funny.

    I also pointed out how junk mail, which is hated by Postal Patrons, is the very driving force behind the Post Office.

  205. I’m likely to believe the junk mail assessment but until you provide some numbers on that claim, I’ll call that unsubstantiated 🙂
    btw, uninsured mostly rich self-employed would imply that small business are doing well. Then you’d have to concede the point that the economy is the way it was before the recession. My dad has a small business, I only assume he doesn’t have to get insurance because he was in the military. Either way, I’m not on his insurance as Gorilla would like to condescendingly assume.
    Anyways, majority of uninsured work at small businesses, and of low income. Again, if anyone can show me statistics where the majority of uninsured are rich people and therefore that’s why health reform doesn’t matter then show me the numbers, I’d like a good laugh.
    http://aspe.hhs.gov/health/reports/05/uninsured-cps/index.htm

  206. I know life experience means nothing to a some 21 year woman-child still living in her Mother’s basement but here you go jerk off: :{

    “…. direct mailings, which now constitute 52 percent of mail volume, up from 38 percent in 1990. Revenue from direct mail “is the financial underpinning of the Postal Service—it could not survive without it,” says Michael Coughlin, former deputy postmaster.”

    “But 89 percent of consumers say in polls that they’d prefer not to receive direct-marketing mail; 44 percent of it is never opened.” Newsweek –Junk Mail Keeps the Post Office Alive

    http://www.newsweek.com/id/161231

  207. Well thank you, and don’t get mad at me just because I made you do some fact checking.
    btw, what happened to possibly ignoring my comments? huh? 😛

  208. lol…it’s like the chick has never gone to the fricking mail box to pick up the bills Mom and Dad pay.

    it’s not rocket science.

    but then again, our little misses critical thinker also deemed the hero’s welcome the Libyan terrorist received to be subjective to one’s personal and very relative definition of what defines a hero’s welcoming.

    Never mind the fact her mail box is stuffed with junk and a effing band played for the terrorist.

    sensico thinks she’s in a internet battle with the Rabbit in which she must argue everything I say, no matter how obviously steeped in reality my comment is.

    What she doesn’t understand is that I only question her drivel when it is factually incorrect or insanely insipid.

  209. I meant your blog. While you probably would love a free pass, you will not get one in here, girlfriend.

    Wouldn’t that be nice? You coming in here, posting shit that doesn’t make sense and no one calls you out on it?

    Every now and then you would get a “good girl” for posting a link by Rutherford.

    And, through the daisies you would skip….

  210. DR,

    To be honest you would have better luck debating a kitchen table. Really not worth wasting your time with drones. It doesnt matter what you say; their ideology clouds their thinking.

  211. from sensico’s own link:

    Almost 30% of all uninsured people are 300% or more above the poverty line. They choose not to pay for it!

    Look at this chart” The Distribution of the Uninsured and Total U.S. Population by Income
    (As measured by the Federal Poverty Level) in 2004″

    To me, the problem is not so damn grave that we freak out and go with Obama care.

  212. DR,

    No its not an emergency. I call for 2 simple ways to lower the cost numerous times and neither Dodger, Dodgette or Curator have commented on it.

    Its not that they want lower health costs per say. They want to fundamentally transform this nation.

    Just try cutting off illegals from all social services and implement meaningful TORT reform. If that doesnt work in a few years, lets address something else.

    My way would only affect illegals and trial lawyers. The average American’s life wouldnt be affected in any negative way. But I guess its too simple to try.

  213. lmao, I love the constant yammering and name calling about me. If I didn’t know anything about you all I’d assume you were all 21 years old or younger. But since I know you’re not, I’d just call you all hypocrites and big babies 😉

  214. oh and I have a blog post to write on my other blog so I’ll be back to read the comments worth reading. btw, I have no idea what comment 300 is referring to by “tulips” and barely know the story of Tinny Tim lol maybe I’m just too young and you’re just a childish 50 year old 😉

  215. The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Sunday shows that 32% of the nation’s voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Forty-two percent (42%) Strongly Disapprove. That’s the highest level of Strong Disapproval yet recorded for this President and it gives Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -10.

    Overall, 47% of voters say they at least somewhat approve of the President’s performance. That matches the lowest total approval yet measured for Obama. Fifty-two percent (52%) now disapprove.

    Baaawwwhhhhaaaahhhaaaaahhhhhaaa!!!!!!!!

  216. barely know the story of Tinny Tim lol anything and maybe I’m just too young stupid and you’re just a childish 50 year old stunning looking, brilliant man. ~ Sensico @ 30

  217. Video: Shea-Porter has constituent arrested at town-hall forum
    posted at 1:20 pm on August 30, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
    Share on Facebook | printer-friendly

    This is a curious re-election strategy, especially for a Representative who made her name by bird-dogging her former Congressman at his town-hall forums. Consistency isn’t Carol Shea-Porter’s strong suit, apparently, as she demonstrates in this clip from the meeting she finally held with constituents after dodging them for most of the month. When one of her constituents challenges the presence of union enforcers in the crowd, Shea-Porter asks for police intervention:

    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/30/video-shea-porter-has-constituent-arrested-at-town-hall-forum/

    Thuggary

  218. Pro-Obamacare Tea Party Crasher SMASHES ATTENDEE In the Face With His Elbow & Disrupts Meeting (Video)
    More Hope & Change–
    Barack Obama gave his marching orders:

    Obama: “They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun”
    Obama to His Followers: “Get in Their Faces!”
    Obama on ACORN Mobs: “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”
    Obama To His Mercenary Army: “Hit Back Twice As Hard”

    His supporters followed through…
    But, don’t expect the state-run media to report on this.

    The Tucson area Tea Party Coalition held a meeting at Rincon High School in Tucson this weekend. Over 1,000 people showed up at the event… including one violent counter-protester.

    The pro-Obama thug disrupted the meeting screaming– marched to the front of the room holding a sign——
    And, then SLAMMED AN ATTENDEE IN THE FACE with his elbow!

    Here’s the video:

    Hat Tip Rod

    *** Here is the video of the pro-Obama thug disrupting the meeting before he smashed the attendee with his elbow. And KGUN has a clear shot of the assault.
    The protester identified himself as Don Alvarez.

    The Tucson Tea Party has much more on the otherwise successful event.

  219. sensico,

    I have proof right now in my hand documenting that Carly Simon did, in fact, write that song about me.

  220. You guys commented like crazy today and I won’t be dealing with every comment (I am Dodger after all, right Elric?) but I will hit a few before I go to bed, and make a general statement or two,

    First, Tex, I may have been a bit hard on you only in that I can’t say you ever said Kennedy deserved to go to hell. That was Elric. However, as a devout Christian, I might have expected you to advise your friend to temper his words a bit. I assumed by your silence, tacit agreement.

    As far as pedophile priests …. good lawd, why didn’t I see that dodge coming? I if went on a rant about pedo priests in any other context I’d have all you conservabots down my throat. But when I point out that Boston priests saw fit to forgive Kennedy his sins, you guys play the pedo card. So predictable I’m embarrassed that I not only fell into your trap but actually jumped into it. 😦

  221. Just try cutting off illegals from all social services

    How do you propose to do that Elric? When a sick illegal immigrant comes into the emergency room, if he can’t produce papers proving that he’s legal you kick his sick ass back out into the street? That’s the America you want to live in?

  222. shut up you big stupid head

    Now that was funny! DR, I’m surprised you didn’t say “doody head”.

    Aside to Sensico, virtually all these guys by my estimation are at least 35, with DR being the youngest of the bunch as far as I’ve inferred.

    Tiny Tim (not the Dicken’s character) was an effeminate falsetto “singer” of the late 60’s whose only “hit” was “Tip Toe Through the Tulips” which he sang while playing a ukulele, if my memory serves me right. He married “Miss Vickie” on Johnny Carson’s Tonight Show. A pop milestone for us old fogies. 😉

  223. So Elric, let me see. You’re looking forward to Israel attacking Iran? Do I understand you correctly there? How many American lives are you willing to sacrifice when we get pulled into a huge middle east war in defense of Israel, who according to your recommendation, strikes first?

  224. You know, if one is to believe the polls (Rasmussen usually skews conservative) I’m kinda glad Obama’s numbers are falling. Now he can stop worrying about kissing ass, and start getting some stuff done.

    Let’s start with hammering home health care reform with a 51 seat vote in the Senate. 🙂

  225. In answer to Gorilla’s earlier comment about my excerpt from HR3200: what about grandfather clause escapes you? Your answer is that if anything in the policy changes, the policy is no longer grandfathered. Hell yeah. If the policy changes, it is no longer the policy that was grandfathered. Where is the problem with that?

  226. In answer to Elric’s numerous comments about Kennedy children being pimped for health care:

    There is a huge difference between a kid advocating the cause of his political family and a kid being forced to be the poster boy for “insulted, disrespected Down Syndrome baby” by his own mother. You haven’t heard me speak out against Bristol Palin when she advocated for abstinence. (Shame she didn’t advocate that platform before conceiving Tripp, but learning from experience can be worthwhile). If Bristol parrot’s her Mom’s talking points, that’s fine with me. Trig on the other hand has no say in whether Mom pulls him into political talking points. That is exploitation, plain and simple … or should I say Palin and Simple. 🙂

  227. Elric: “LOL You cant answer the question can you?”

    Not sure what you are talking about. I answered his question.

    “Like Gorilla said, the Palis are the pariahs of the Middle East for Arabs. They dont give a damn about them. They are just used as proxies for war against the Jews. ”

    While I agree that the Palestinians are used as proxies, I don’t believe that is the motivation for Arab states to keep them stateless. They could be proxies just as easy as a state as they could stateless. Look at Syria.

    But I certainly don’t disagree that the Arab states use the Palestinians for their own purposes. And I am pretty sure I basically said as much.

    DR: ” You coming in here, posting shit that doesn’t make sense and no one calls you out on it?”

    1 of those around here is enough.

    Elric: “To be honest you would have better luck debating a kitchen table.”

    The drone has taken to stealing Rutherford’s lines now.

    Rutherford, please take the time to explain to Elric the context in which that line should be used, since it seems a bit above him.

    “Really not worth wasting your time with drones. It doesnt matter what you say; their ideology clouds their thinking.”

    Oh the irony….

    Rutherford: “Trig on the other hand has no say in whether Mom pulls him into political talking points. That is exploitation, plain and simple ”

    Do you seriously think that boy had any say in that being in there? With all of this “Let’s do it for Teddy” bullshit, you really think he was going to say “Hell no, I’m not reading that”?

    The kid did like any other kid would do in that same situation—what he was told.

    You defending this is as hypocritical as your acceptance of Ted’s treatment of women for the past 45 years.

    You are turning an accepting eye to all of this because it is Ted Kennedy and you agree with his politics. Would you give the same forgiveness to John McCain? I hear he’s been in the senate for a while and done a lot of nice bipartisan things, too.

    You crapped on McCain the entire campaign because 1 author said he called his wife a cunt, even though nobody else on the face of the earth can substantiate the claim.

    Ted Kennedy leaves a woman he was going to cheat on his pregnant wife with to die and in the end it’s all good because the little slut should have known better and he went on to do such great things and repented on his death bed.

    Unbelievable.

  228. On this question of why haven’t the Arab states made Palestine a state, we are all ignoring a basic fact—every Arab state recognizes the Palestinian state. It is even a full member of the League of Arab States and Organization of Islamic Conference.

    That probably shouldn’t go overlooked.

  229. “How do you propose to do that Elric? When a sick illegal immigrant comes into the emergency room, if he can’t produce papers proving that he’s legal you kick his sick ass back out into the street? That’s the America you want to live in?”

    We could be nice and give the illegals 90 days to leave before services are cut off. Fair?

  230. “So Elric, let me see. You’re looking forward to Israel attacking Iran? Do I understand you correctly there? How many American lives are you willing to sacrifice when we get pulled into a huge middle east war in defense of Israel, who according to your recommendation, strikes first?”

    AM I looking forward to it? No. But I rather Israel take out Iran’s nuclear site before they get a nuke. The UN once again proved itself useless and once again, diplomacy proved itself useless with regimes like Iran. So Israel has no choice unless it wants to go up in a nuclear cloud.

    You see Dodger, isnt it easy? Someone asks you a question and you answer it. You should try it sometime

  231. “There is a huge difference between a kid advocating the cause of his political family and a kid being forced to be the poster boy for “insulted, disrespected Down Syndrome baby” by his own mother.”

    You forgot the context it was at a funeral. And the kid wasnt “forced”. The kid was insulted before Palin defended her kid. I swear you live in your own little world.

  232. “While I agree that the Palestinians are used as proxies, I don’t believe that is the motivation for Arab states to keep them stateless. They could be proxies just as easy as a state as they could stateless. Look at Syria.”

    They had 19 years to give them one. Only became an issue when Israel won control of Gaza and the West Bank. If the Palis had a state, the Arabs would lose their biggest tool. And I cant blame them. Its such an effective tool. The world ignores real oppression and genocide because of the poor pitiful Palis.

  233. “Hell yeah. If the policy changes, it is no longer the policy that was grandfathered. Where is the problem with that?”

    Do you just play stupid? Seriously.

  234. R, the environment that the policy is/was suppose to operate in is changing drastically, so it is going to force changes to current coverage, thus forcing transitions into the public option. I didn’t think that was so hard to grasp. A + B = Single Payer

    We’re being given a wooden nickle here- claims that we can keep our coverage or doctor simply aren’t accurate.

  235. On this question of why haven’t the Arab states made Palestine a state, we are all ignoring a basic fact—every Arab state recognizes the Palestinian state. It is even a full member of the League of Arab States and Organization of Islamic Conference.

    I don’t think they are full members, just observers. Same as in the UN, they are observers- no votes allowed.

    But to the question of state, the Arabs for the longest time used the Palestinians are a lever against Israel. Iran certainly has no interest in seeing the Palestinian issue resolved because it have been the great distractor, keeping the focus on Muslim vs. Jew instead of Arab vs. Persian. The Arab states are coming around I think, they recognize this and view Iran as a far greater threat ton their security than Israel.

    The problem is the Arab street. Arab politicians must always play to the street, which they have inflamed for years with various forms of propaganda and to reverse that will take time. The dynamics of politics in the region are very complicated.

  236. barely know the story of Tinny Tim lol anything and maybe I’m just too young stupid and you’re just a childish 50 year old stunning looking, brilliant man. ~ Sensico @ 30

    Tex, more like, ” Do you want fries with that?” 😉

  237. For Sensico…

    The Undercovered
    http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=331944894331657

    “The O’Neills classified the uninsured in two categories: the “involuntarily” uninsured, made up of those “likely unable to afford” coverage; and the “voluntarily” uninsured, 18- to 64-year-olds who have incomes at or above 2.5 times the poverty line and “likely have the means to obtain health care coverage.”

    At least 43% of the 46 million, the O’Neills say, belong to the voluntarily uninsured group.

    That leaves 27 million Americans who aren’t covered because they ostensibly cannot afford it.

    There’s much more to the story, though. The O’Neills found that:

    • One-third of those who are involuntarily uninsured are high school dropouts; only 7% of the privately insured didn’t graduate.

    • A “disproportionately large” portion — almost 52% — of the involuntarily uninsured are young, 18 to 34.

    • Immigrants make up a third of the involuntarily uninsured.

    • Almost half of those the authors placed in the involuntary column are single and childless.”

  238. One of the things that always kind of befuddled me about the Kennedy’s was their soft play with religion. Virtually everything they pushed for was diametrically opposed to the basic teachings and tenets of the church. You pick it – (1) abortion, (2) adultery, (3) homosexuality, etc…

    For instance, why they felt the need for the church to annul their marriages (after a couple of children and 10-12 years :lol:).

    I really do think most of the Kennedys, at least the most public ones, epitomize those who believe they can buy their way into heaven. They’ve done some good things with their name (Special Olympics), but they do remind me of modern day Pharisees with their hypocrisy. Somewhere, their play on religion must indicate some matter of guilt for the sins of their past.

    Too bad Wickle can’t come buy – I’d be curious to hear his take on the Kennedy clan as I believe he resides in those parts.

  239. All the president’s czars
    August 28, 12:41 PMColumbia Conservative ExaminerAnthony G. Martin

    As we reported yesterday Barack Obama has been quietly but persistently gathering around him a politburo of ‘czars,’ special advisors, ‘officers,’ and special counsel that is responsible only to him.

    These persons are responsible for implementing and overseeing significant policy initiatives undertaken by the Obama administration–a task that is specifically reserved for Congress by the Constitution.

    Who are these people, and why are they being appointed? Presidents have a Cabinet that is supposed to be responsible for these matters. So why does Obama need over 50 czars and advisors, in addition to Cabinet officials and Congress?

    We have already established that the czars and officers are Leftwing extremists with wildly radical views that make even the likes of Nancy Pelosi look moderate. The FCC’s new ‘chief diversity officer’ believes that the Communist revolution in Venezuela that brought Hugo Chavez to power is a good model for the United States. Another czar actually advocates for the concept that animals have the right to legal representation. And yet another is a self-avowed, self-described Communist who serves as the ‘green energy czar.’ His name is Van Jones.

    http://www.examiner.com/x-3704-Columbia-Conservative-Examiner~y2009m8d28-All-the-presidents-czars

  240. Israel, Iran and Obama

    Conflict is inevitable unless the West moves quickly to stop a nuclear Tehran.

    The International Atomic Energy Agency has produced another alarming report on Iran’s nuclear programs, though it hasn’t released it publicly, only to governments that would also rather not disclose more details of Iran’s progress toward becoming a nuclear theocracy. Meanwhile, Iran intends to introduce a resolution, backed by more than 100 members of the so-called Non-Aligned Movement, that would ban military attacks on nuclear facilities. No actual mention of Israel, of course.

    The mullahs understand that the only real challenge to their nuclear ambitions is likely to come from Israel. They’ve long concluded that the U.N. is no threat, as IAEA chief Mohamed ElBaradei has in practice become an apologist for Iran’s program. They can also see that the West lacks the will to do anything, as the Obama Administration continues to plead for Tehran to negotiate even as Iran holds show trials of opposition leaders and journalists for saying the recent re-election of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was fraudulent. The irony is that the weaker the West and U.N. appear, the more probable an Israeli attack becomes.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203863204574348533106427974.html?mod=rss_opinion_main

    Ohhh what will Thuggy do then?

  241. You know, if one is to believe the polls (Rasmussen usually skews conservative) I’m kinda glad Obama’s numbers are falling. Now he can stop worrying about kissing ass, and start getting some stuff done.” — R

    Rasmussen has been one of the most accurate polls for several years now, which is one of the reasons that lots of folks use them. I’d be impressed if you could show a Rasmussen poll that was wrong. Anyway, a study on the ’08 elections and guess who was at the top… http://www.fordham.edu/images/academics/graduate_schools/gsas/elections_and_campaign_/poll%20accuracy%20in%20the%202008%20presidential%20election.pdf

    When you look at this, you’ll see that four pollsters overestimated McCain support while 17 overestimated Obama support (I’m sure there is a lesson here and it likely has to do with wishful thinking and media bias). Two were spot on: Rasmussen and Pew.

  242. “You know, if one is to believe the polls (Rasmussen usually skews conservative) I’m kinda glad Obama’s numbers are falling. Now he can stop worrying about kissing ass, and start getting some stuff done.”

    I love this quote. Damn what the people want, let Thuggy decide whats best for the peasants.

  243. One of the things that always kind of befuddled me about the Kennedy’s was their soft play with religion. Virtually everything they pushed for was diametrically opposed to the basic teachings and tenets of the church. You pick it – (1) abortion, (2) adultery, (3) homosexuality, etc…

    OK Tex, now you’ve got me befuddled. They “pushed for” adultery? LOL I got (1) pro-choice and (3) equal rights regardless of orientation but adultery? Please find me the bill any of the Kennedy’s introduced suggesting that there be federal legislation supporting adultery. Once again, you’re confusing private flaws with public policy, perhaps easy to do with the Kennedy’s which was the whole point of my original post.

  244. Elric: “They had 19 years to give them one.”

    That fact alone doesn’t prove your point. It certainly proves they didn’t want to, but says nothing as to why.

    And it’s the “why” that we have been discussing this whole time.

    Plus like I said, all Arab states recognize the Palestinian state, anyways.

    Gorilla: “I don’t think they are full members, just observers. Same as in the UN, they are observers- no votes allowed.”

    I believe Palestine is a full member of LAS (I’d link to the official LAS site, but the English site is under construction). And regardless, every Arab state recognizes Palestine as an independent state, which was really my main point. The LAS and IOC stuff was just for flavor.

  245. “That fact alone doesn’t prove your point. It certainly proves they didn’t want to, but says nothing as to why.”

    Because the Palis are the pariahs of the Arab world. Israelis treat them better than the Arab world. Black September certainly proved that. They are only useful as a propaganda tool against Israel.

  246. “And regardless, every Arab state recognizes Palestine as an independent state, which was really my main point.”

    Which includes all of Israel. Your point?

  247. Pill, don’t confuse a message to the street as the message to the state. This point is essentially demonstrated in the ’48-’67 timeframe. Fire up the street, get the people going, but keeping the goal just out of reach because once they have a state, how are you going to fire up the masses again against Israel?

    What’s funny is, the governments are changing their tunes because the real boogie man is Iran, and now they’ve fired their streets up for so long that when Iran takes advantage of that, they can’t constrain Iranian influence. They’re dancing around this right now, trying to find a way to mitigate Iranian influence without reversing what they’ve been selling for the last 50+ years…

  248. OK Tex, now you’ve got me befuddled. They “pushed for” adultery? LOL I got (1) pro-choice and (3) equal rights regardless of orientation but adultery? Please find me the bill any of the Kennedy’s introduced suggesting that there be federal legislation supporting adultery. Once again, you’re confusing private flaws with public policy, perhaps easy to do with the Kennedy’s which was the whole point of my original post.” — R

    I’d like to think that leadership by example pushes something to the masses. Of course, I guess it depends on whether you are a Dem or a Republican- Dems find personal character issues unimportant. In fact, I think I remember Sensico saying something to this some time ago.

    Anyway, cheat on your spouse- eh, who cares, what does honesty have to do with being a public servant? 😉

  249. Gorilla,

    I doubt you will ever see the Sunni Arab states ever push for a viable peace process with Israel. But I do not think they will make too much of a noise when Israel hits Iran, possibly as soon as the end of next month. I read a few weeks back the Saudis gave permission for Israel to use its air space when it hits Iran.

    They may hate Israel and the Jews but they know Israel isnt going to nuke them. Iran, they cant be sure.

    Just be prepared for the riots that will ensue. Make the Motoon riots and the riots during the recent campaign look mild.

  250. In the wee hours of the morning, Red Pill went on a nostalgia tour of The Rutherford Lawson Blog and posted some comments on some of my old posts. Rather than force all you folks on the same tour, I’ll answer Red Pill here.

    Red, for starters some of your accusations of hypocrisy don’t fly because we differ on Obama. One of your comments accuses me of slamming McCain for things currently being done by Obama (particularly “spin” if I recall). Since what you view as Obama spin, I view as Obama truth, we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

    You also comment on McCain vs Kennedy, suggesting that I give Kennedy a free pass while I rake McCain over the coals. Problem is, I don’t give Kennedy a free pass. From being kicked out of Harvard for cheating, to Chappaquiddick to the “William Kennedy Smith” affair, Teddy’s moral barometer was way off the mark. I said so in my main post. I personally don’t think McCain’s legislative record comes close to Kennedy even though he is also known for reaching across the aisle.

    Had it been Kennedy vs McCain last year instead of Obama vs McCain, I would have been in a bit of a pickle on moral grounds. I would still have advocated for Kennedy but I probably would have had to lay off McCain a bit on the moral side.

    By the way, a Time magazine article points out that Kennedy did not go after Clarence Thomas the way he went after Bork because he knew he had little credibility to attack Thomas on the pubic-hair-coke-can business.

  251. Anyway, cheat on your spouse- eh, who cares, what does honesty have to do with being a public servant? 😉

    I do hope you’re not holding up Republicans as paragons of moral virtue, G. That argument dies right out of the starting gate:

    Vitter.
    Sanford,
    Craig,
    Ensign
    and the list goes on.

    Our country has still not resolved the debate about whether private practices truly damage or compromise public service. If you haven’t noticed, we have tremendous tolerance for these folks regardless of which aisle their wandering dicks come from. (Yikes, that sounded dirtier than I had intended.)

  252. Rutherford you should probably create a new post since this one has grown a thread that although energetic is also kinda crazy. No offense to the commenters btw.
    I am a little curious about the pedophile priest trap thing though. For my part for I won’t speak for others I was just stating what I feel is the truth. I’ve recently been backed up by a number of catholics including the rather ultra conservative Catholic Action League.
    Teddy K’s catholicism either shows him to be a CINO or that the CC is a sham. There really isn’t a middle ground.

    And for two cents from the Fray on the Arab/Palestinian thing. If nothing else the power holders in the regional Arab states get their power with Palis being stateless. Just like here in the states how “advocacy” groups work hard for hispanics but on the side tell them not to learn english. Keeping people ignorant on any scale is a source of power since time began.

  253. Rutherford you should probably create a new post since this one has grown a thread that although energetic is also kinda crazy. No offense to the commenters

    no offense taken and I agree. Also, this thread tends to increase page loading time due to all the BS. being spewed by Elric and a couple others. And I’m sure my video tribute to Rabbit’s vanity also contributed to that.

  254. What BS have I spewed Dodgette? You libs are always so vague in your accusations. Try being specific for once. Names some thing I have posted that are BS and prove they were BS.

    Is that asking too much from you? Should be simple if it was just BS, right?

  255. I must admit that I should be at least predictable enough for you to figure that out. Left side of my head is hurting cause I went to the dentist. I’d be here all day pointing out your crap. So just assume I mean all of your comments.

  256. I am a little curious about the pedophile priest trap thing though.

    Alfie, the trap, in my estimation, was that if I were to independently condemn the Catholic church for it’s sexual shenanigans, I have no doubt there would be an onslaught of accusations of the “atheist” playing dirty again. Yet when I hold the church up as a source of moral vindication in defense of a liberal, I get slammed and told that the church is a corrupt bunch of pervs.

    That’s the trap. It’s a can’t-win but one that I didn’t see coming when I made my original comment. Shame on me.

  257. I agree a new thread, or possibly two is needed.

    What exactly is Obama’s “winning strategy” in Afghanistan?

    Or…

    Why would a CIA operative who beats an Afghan detainee to death with a flashlight be A-OK in Dick Cheney’s world?

  258. Oh Alfie … one more thing. This isn’t the first post of mine where the comment section has grown tentacles of its own branching out into unforeseen territory. I am starting to believe I really have two things running here simultaneously: a blog and a “political forum”, a veritable online McLaughlin Group. 🙂

    Glad you’re a part of it.

  259. “I get slammed and told that the church is a corrupt bunch of pervs.”

    Alfie was specific to the Catholic Church in Boston where most of the abuses took place. But you were never one for specifics, where you?

  260. As a Catholic, (although a shitty one) I have to agree with Rutherford. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t.

    Catholics don’t take kindly to other people ripping on a diocese that we want to tar and feather.

    That being said, the article Rutherford posted about the Pope was utter spew. Seriously, dude, that wasn’t link material.

  261. Legacy: Considering the Kennedy-Andropov gambit
    posted at 2:22 pm on August 31, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
    Share on Facebook | printer-friendly

    Now that Ted Kennedy has been eulogized and buried, no one can complain about the examination of his life in the public sphere as inappropriate. From the beginning, Kennedy’s critics have discussed his failures and cowardice at Chappaquiddick, and that certainly belongs in any discussion of Kennedy’s life. However, another episode relates much more directly to Kennedy’s public career and should get a great deal more examination now — his effort to enlist Yuri Andropov as an ally of the Democratic Party against Ronald Reagan in 1983. Peter Robinson reviews the incident for Forbes:

    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/31/legacy-considering-the-kennedy-andropov-gambit/

    What a legacy the scumbag had

  262. This is what happens when you totally secularize a nation

    Sorry, this drone can’t pass this one up. So Elric, you don’t want a secular nation … you prefer a theocracy so long as it isn’t the evil Islam 👿

    I bet you’d actually be much happier in Muslim countries where this would never be tolerated. 😀

  263. “you prefer a theocracy so long as it isn’t the evil Islam”

    I guess you cant read.

    You also make up stuff because you have no argument.

    “I bet you’d actually be much happier in Muslim countries where this would never be tolerated.”

    You are right about one thing, muslims wouldnt tolerate it. Stores that sold it would be blown up.

    But interesting that you couldnt even condemn it. Prefer to make it about me. Typical leftist tactics.

  264. “Mmmmm, Michelle Malkin with nipple tassles ….. nah … blech”

    I guess you would prefer Helen Thomas.

    And of course you would have to bring up a conservative woman who had nothing to do with the post. I guess you dont even have enough morals to condemn it. Not surprised. Leftists have no moral compass.

  265. I guess you cant read.

    I read perfectly well. You blamed kiddie-porn-outfits on the secularism of America. What’s the alternative to a secular government? A theocracy.

    It’s a shame I have to waste blog space spelling this stuff out for you.

  266. Seriously, dude, that wasn’t link material.

    Well DR, honestly I wasn’t that happy with the source, a site I’d never heard of and can’t vouch for. But I actually thought the article was balanced and painted a better picture of the Pope than I already had. The article really boiled down to this: when we elect a pope (and they are elected), can’t we find someone who wasn’t a member of the Hitler Youth, for whatever reason?

  267. “I read perfectly well.”

    No, I said no drones need bother commenting

    “You blamed kiddie-porn-outfits on the secularism of America.”

    Yes

    “What’s the alternative to a secular government? A theocracy.”

    Why do leftists automatically think that anyone opposing a total secular state wants a theocracy?

    Ohhhh and whats that 5 posts now and you still cant condemn it?

  268. “can’t we find someone who wasn’t a member of the Hitler Youth, for whatever reason?”

    We?

    Your lack of historical perspective is mind boggling. You seriously need to read about what it was like to live in German society in the 30’s.

    I guess you condemn every German over the age of 68 years of age.

    You’re a straight up bigot sometimes.

    The funny thing is, and I have thought this long before your condemnation of the Pope, is that you are exactly the type that would blindly follow a cult of personality.

    I’ve seen on here.

    You have so far sucker punched Mother Teresa and now the Pope on here.

    Nope, those two didn’t meet your standards of being a great person.

    Yet….Tedd Kennedy makes you solemn as a motherfucker.

  269. I think you are a pathetic little gimp, that, while you physically can’t even protect your own family or for that matter grow a fucking vegetable garden, finds it titillating and masculine to go online and bash revered figures of Catholicism.

    Meanwhile, not a word for all the “Niger this, Niger that” black baptist racists who spew their vehement ignorance every Sunday in 5,000 dollar stupid ass looking outfits with coco-butter stains.

    Couldn’t Obama do better then an ignorant anti-Semite for a Reverend?

    You fucking hypocrite.

    Why don’t you learn about what kind of person the Pope really is before you come on here and bash him, coward.

  270. LMAO it just keeps getting better the longer this thread gets. I feel like this is the Big Brother house and the longer you all are here, the crazier you get.

  271. Wow … that came out of the blue. In one minute, Rabbit defends (or at least understands) the no-win situation of criticizing the catholic church and in the next minute launches a huge rant (including a word I actually hate more than the N word … the G word).

    Well, hopefully Rabbit really hasn’t quit and will read this response, Ehhh, while I didn’t know much about him, I rather liked Pope John Paul II. He seemed to me a modern Pope and a very compassionate Pope. So I don’t go off on the Pope wholesale. The idea that every single German 14 year old was a member of the Hitler Youth in the 30’s is simply ridiculous,. There are some, whose families, at great risk to their own safety, helped keep them out of the Hitler Youth. The article which has Rabbit apoplectic, made it very clear that Benedict did not sympathize with the Nazi’s. He did not fight on their behalf. But the article also says that just the mere association with the Hitler Youth, however mandatory, however innocent, is a blemish unbecoming of a future Pope. I find it hard to believe there aren’t Catholics who agree with this. I find it hard to believe there are not Catholics who did not think Benedict was the best choice. Now you may say that since I am not a Catholic I have no right to bring this issue up. Fine, you’re entitled to your opinion.

    I’m not sure which black ministers you’re talking about who embrace the N word. So you’ve got me stumped there. As for Rev Wright, he spoke some truth and some garbage. Not very different from a lot of preachers. AND I’ve said repeatedly (including devoting an entire post to it) that I think Obama doth protest too much about his religious devotion. I think he attended Wright’s church for cynical political reasons primarily. It’s not one of the things I most admire about him.

    Unless you’ve popped one too many Coors tonight Rabbit, I think you owe me an apology. I can plant a veggie garden but have no interest in doing so. Until I got laid off, I “protected” my family in grand style … it’s amazing how a six figure salary can compensate for physical shortcomings.

    I hope you do cool down and return here since you’re smart, funny and I think you really care about the issues.

  272. Though, I agree with most of comment #379 there are white pastors that equally do the same thing, except instead of saying the N-word which I don’t even say, they say they want to kill certain political leaders, then some form cults getting people high on the juice.
    I think unless obvious, it’s not fair to bash some religious leaders because you can be called out for support those that do the same thing.
    As far as I’m concerned, Rev. Wright, Pastor Steven Anderson, Pope, others have all contributed to the downfall of society. One enables African Americans (who give a shit what he says) to think that America is somehow worse. You know, my aunt’s husband came from Germany. We were talking about how Wright has some screw loose. He joked, like how can you say African Americans are worse off, there’s no slavery, no lynchings. Essentially he’s right.
    Pastor Steven enables right wing extremism which is dangerous. His sermon saying god hates obama and wishes he dies enabled hatred of the worst kind, I shouldn’t have to go into any detail as to why.
    Pope, enabled intolerance to people with opposing views.

    The common light between all of these people is that they have good people that attend their services. I would fault none of them for going to church one day to find that there pastor or pope has gone off the deep end. Sorry for the ramble.

  273. You should start a veggie garden anyways Rutherford, help the environment, fend for self, teach self-reliance. Don’t do strawberries unless you’re willing to fend off squirrels.

  274. Rutherford,

    Your comment on the Pope is a cheap shot. I don’t blame the Rabbit for going off and I’m not even Catholic. What’s good for the goose…if you want to get nasty, then expect nasty.

    If you are going to invoke that kind of blatant religious bigotry, especially conveying a good Pope with the Hitler regime, then I see no reason why someone from the other side can’t invoke racial bigotry straight out of Roots. One is no more hurtful or hateful then the other.

    The Pope is not perfect. No man was except one. But measure the man for his life’s work – not what he did or was in as a juvenile. That is exactly what you are asking all of us to do with Teddy Kennedy.

    But there is one difference. The Pope has apologized for his sins, even where I believe none is necessary. Ted Kennedy was arrogant and self-serving right until the end.

  275. Though, I agree with most of comment #379 …

    I guess I’m puzzled Sensico with what you mostly agree with.

    1. I don’t find it titillating to bash Catholic icons.
    2. I don’t know of baptist preachers who embrace the N word. (I do know of rappers who do it … fools.)
    3. I do think it does not speak well of Obama that he attended Wright’s church, as far as I’m concerned, to embrace Wright’s congregation.

  276. Well, I happen to not agree that you’re a gimp 🙂
    What you pointed out was classic guilt by association, maybe you didn’t bash but the comment in #376 came off as quilt by association which would be hypocritical if you have indeed blame others for playing the guilt-by-association with Rev. Wright.
    I’ve heard of preachers using the N word. Maybe it’s just a cultural thing or just don’t watch enough TV or local news thing to know lol
    I actually didn’t see your comment before I posted my comment but after the explanation, I’m satisfied enough. Like I said, the longer this thread, the crazier it gets and with my tooth hurting, it doesn’t help any of you haha, goiing 2 bed now, sorry in advance to everyone that reads this comment 🙂

  277. Sensico, 😆

    Well, I can only speak for myself as I consider Brother Rabbit a blog buddy with whom I generally agree, but I can assure you that the “love” is strictly platonic, if you were insinuating otherwise.

    And if I’m not mistaken, my dear blog friend Rabbit should be a daddy any day now of which I will personally be teed at him if he doesn’t show up concerning the announcement of the grand arrival. 😮

  278. If membership in the Hitler Youth is equivalent to membership in the church of a crazy preacher, then the guilt by association argument has some legs and I apologize to the Rabbit. It is difficult from a 21st century perspective to discern between the Germans who helped Hitler, and the Germans who did what they had to do to survive … not helping but not resisting either. Clearly, if Benedict’s works throughout his life make any Hitler associations an anomaly, then he should be given credit for his good works. (Further readings reveal that Benedict stopped going to Hitler Youth meetings and if I’m not mistaken went AWOL from the Nazi army. So, the “taint” may well be unfair.)

    Sensico, I agree that some preachers use the N word (Wright did) but do they embrace it like rappers do? I got the impression from Rabbit’s rant that he felt preachers used the word in the sense of “how ya doing my N***?” Wright for example, used it as the pejorative that it is.

    Tex, based on Sensico’s analysis, you can’t pass the hypocrite test much better than I can, since you will dismiss any negative associations of the Pope, but embrace all negative associations of Obama, no matter how tenuous (e.g. Bill Ayers).

    The problem I see Tex, which is typical of you, Elric and on occasion Rabbit, is you easily drift from attacking the message to attacking the messenger, and in a most personal and insulting way. Now Tex, you have mellowed considerably and I have developed a thick skin but Rabbit’s comments go beyond the pale and are simply not warranted by my prior comments. It is clear from this and prior threads that any criticism of a Pope or Mother Teresa creates an explosion, whether or not it is a “cheap shot”.

  279. He’s secretly in love with Rutherford and Tex

    Well, Sensico, Rabbit is definitely simpatico with Tex. I personally think he has a love/hate relationship with me. Rabbit outed himself here as a closet intellectual and I am quite sure he has a lot of fun here debating the points. On the one hand I think he appreciates the forum I give him but on the other hand he associates intellect with wimpdom and probably resents me for not encouraging his tattooed biker persona. And of course, in 99% of the cases, he disagrees with my politics.

    Some of the clearest and cleverest comments have been written by Rabbit, so much so that of all my “regulars” who don’t already have a blog, I’d probably nominate him to start one. And of course, I agree with Tex … we’re all eager to hear the good news about Rabbit’s new addition.

    Many of us know each others Achilles heels on this blog, another reason why I think Rabbit went over the line.

  280. Sorry Rutherford. Call me a hypocrite if you wish, but to compare a self-serving and incredibly shallow Obama with a selfless Pope not only distinguishes you as immature and bias in thought, but superficially intellectual. I used to think it a game with you, but I have since discovered that outside your world of I.T. and debating politics, you’re rather weak in your breadth of knowledge. Don’t mean to be insulting, just honest.

    When it comes to anything of religion, whether it be Judeo-Christian or Muslim, you are absolutely clueless, which surprises me because you are obviously gifted in other capacities. I have found this a very common thread amongst liberals, perhaps explaining why I am so opposed to them in virtually every capacity and how we can reach such different conclusions about the world. About the only liberal that I’ve read frequently who might not fit that mold would be Camille Paglia, whom I do find interesting.

    Perhaps Rabbit should have not made it so personal, but your cheap shots beyond politic have grown thin and repetitive. I personally have no desire to break bread or make friends with somebody who continues to do so. If your purpose is to share ideas or debate on your blog, then I suggest that we refrain from taking the most sacred tenets of our lives, those we feel most passionate, and agree that there are certain issues that are beyond debate. Your particular race, or our particular faith should not be made the object of ridicule. There are still a few subjects that should be designated as taboo. Obama is not one of them as you set the ground rules yourself when you made George Bush the object of ridicule for seven years. The fact that Obama is now treated as the clown goes with the territory.

  281. I do hope you’re not holding up Republicans as paragons of moral virtue, G. That argument dies right out of the starting gate:

    I didn’t say Republicans were, though they certainly get held up to a higher standard on moral values. But your right, Dems don’t focus on morality, it tends to get in the way of their criminality. Consider the tar and feathers that would fly if Bush had nominated a Treasury Sec who didn’t pay his taxes? Of course we could look at folks like Chris Dodd, sweatheart deals from banks he is suppose to be regulating, Frank running a whore house, how about Charlie Rangle who have conviently forgotten millions that were to be disclosed? Any number of ***gate’s from the Clinton administration and my personal favorite, William “Diollar Bill” Jefferson. I mean come on, nothing is more symbolic of the travesty of New Orleans and the state writ large than finding thousands wrapped in tin foil in the politicians freezer. Rainy day fund? It’s pouring now for him!

  282. “The problem I see Tex, which is typical of you, Elric and on occasion Rabbit, is you easily drift from attacking the message to attacking the messenger, and in a most personal and insulting way.”

    Kinda like you do. Instead of our society increasingly sexualizing our youth and at longer ages, you rather take shots at Malkin and ask me if I want a theocracy. Ohh and you still didnt condemn it. So I am guessing you approved of it.

  283. Beck’s Can’t Spell Oligarch Without The Czars’ Beat Down

    From Wikipedia: An Oligarchy (Greek Ὀλιγαρχία, Oligarkhía) is a form of government in which power effectively rests with a small elite segment of society distinguished by royal, wealth, intellectual, family, military or religious hegemony. The word oligarchy is from the Greek words for “few” (ὀλίγος olígos) and “rule” (ἀρχή arkhē). Such states are often controlled by politically powerful families whose children are heavily conditioned and mentored to be heirs of the power of the oligarchy.[citation needed] Oligarchies have been tyrannical throughout history, being completely reliant on public servitude to exist.

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/08/becks-cant-spell-oligarch-without-the-czars-beat-down-.html

    Sounds very familiar

  284. Obamateurism of the Day
    posted at 8:05 am on September 1, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
    Share on Facebook | printer-friendly

    At one time, Barack Obama was a big advocate of reading bills before talking about them, one way or the other. In 2004, Obama debated a fellow state Senator over, coincidentally, another health-care bill in Illinois. With disdain dripping from his voice, Obama scolded his opponent for not having read the bill before debating it (via Michael Goldfarb at the Weekly Standard):

    And I have to say by the way, just to pick up on something that was raised earlier, that this is a different bill number than the original bill, it has gone through a complete restructuring from the original bill, but that initial concern that Senator Ryder said, that original cloud continued over it, because industry, and industry lobbyists, insurance lobbyists here in Springfield had been engaging in such fear-mongering among its agents, suggesting that this was a single-payer bill that in fact a lot of concerns were raised that had nothing to do with the bill that was before the body today. And what I was, what I would strongly suggest is people take the time to look at the three-page bill that is before them as opposed to some of the mischaracterizations (of) this legislation that have been raised by others.

    So does Obama feel that anyone who hasn’t actually read a bill should remain uninvolved in it? Apparently not, as John McCormack discovered at the beginning of Obama’s vacation:

    TWS: At some point in the legislative process, will the president read the entire health-care bill?

    GIBBS: I assume the president will study the details of the proposal and will be–he’s a highly informed individual.

    TWS: But he won’t take the time to read it front to back at some point when this thing is firmed up?

    GIBBS: I don’t know what his vacation plans are currently.

    Isn’t this the bill that Obama demanded that Congress complete in just a few days? What happened to reading the bill? Did reading stop being fun-damental in the Obama administration?

  285. Harry Reid Holds Town Hall for Pro-ObamaCare Supporters ONLY

    Video description via Freedom’s Lighthouse: Here is a video report on a Town Hall Meeting held by Sen. Harry Reid at UNLV that was “by invitation only” – and the only people invited were supporters of ObamaCare, with a heavy union presence. When one man tried to get in who was against ObamaCare, he was told to get out. That confrontation is on this report.

  286. Elric:

    1. It’s one thing for legislators not to read entire bills. That is a bit troubling. But I see no reason why the President should be expected to read any more than an executive summary of any bill along with whatever verbal briefings are needed. I think it is a necessary disadvantage of the presidency that there is just too much going on for him to read the full bills that he will end up signing or veto-ing. As important as health care is, personally I’d rather he devote more time reading the national security briefing he gets each morning.

    2. I guess calling an invitation-only meeting a Town Hall is a mistake right off the bat. Agreed.

    3. C’mon Elric! I know you don’t watch his show because you don’t get cable but even you have to admit what a bonehead move it was for Beck to spell oligarchy “o-l-i-g-a-r-h-y”. Still I give him credit for figuring how to use the missing “c” once it was brought to his attention. 🙂

    4. Since “insulting” the Pope got me in all sorts of hot water here, I’m not even going to touch insulting Mohammed. I’ll leave that to you Elric … it’s funny that with the exception of Red Pill, you get away with it here without the least bit condemnation. Fortunately for you, Catholics read this blog and my guess is Muslims do not.

    5. I’ve never written about it, but as the father of a five year old I am very sensitive to the over-sexualization of children in modern American society. I don’t know whether you have kids Elric but if you don’t I’ll give you a clue as to one of the worst offenders: Disney. Walt is probably spinning in his grave.

  287. Gorilla, we obviously can go tit for tat on corrupt politicians. Perhaps rather than making gross generalizations about either party, we should examine what it is about elected office that either attracts corrupt people or creates corrupt people.

  288. Tex, all I can say to you is how can you accuse me of making Catholicism the object of ridicule when in this very thread I held the Catholic church up as a reasonable arbiter of a man’s fitness for salvation. My assertion was met with nasty comments about pedo priests. No one called the folks yelling “perv” disrespectful of Catholicism. Sorry, there is a double standard at play here.

    As for my wanting race and disability to be hands off topics, nonsense. I have no problem discussing them when they are relevant. In fact, Rabbit’s racial comments in his rant weren’t offensive (I don’t much like the N word being thrown around but he was making a point). On the other hand, his reference to disability had nothing to do with the argument at hand. It was an unnecessarily nasty cut at me, when he should know from numerous things I’ve written in the past, that I do respect him and his opinions even though I don’t often agree with them. I suppose his comment surprised and disappointed me because I thought we had gotten past the low-blow part of our interactions.

    Clearly, I was wrong.

  289. 1. It’s one thing for legislators not to read entire bills. That is a bit troubling. But I see no reason why the President should be expected to read any more than an executive summary of any bill along with whatever verbal briefings are needed. I think it is a necessary disadvantage of the presidency that there is just too much going on for him to read the full bills that he will end up signing or veto-ing. As important as health care is, personally I’d rather he devote more time reading the national security briefing he gets each morning.” — R

    Ah, he doesn’t read those either, they’re briefed to him, which is why they call it a Presidential Daily Brief.

    Considering that his signature, or veto, is a direct requirement of the Constitution, he needs to read the bill. How many times have you or I read a leader, or a summary, to then go into the full document and find that the snippet left out all kinds of interesting stuff, or- more importantly- scarry shit hidden on page 789. Sorry, you’re wrong on this, it is his fundamental responsibility to read all legislatiion that comes across his desk because unlike the Senate or the House, his decision is the only one that matters at that point. He must read the bill.

    I guess calling an invitation-only meeting a Town Hall is a mistake right off the bat. Agreed.” — R

    Indicative of a condescending contempt for the American public like no other. Reid and Pelosi are made for each other.

    Gorilla, we obviously can go tit for tat on corrupt politicians. Perhaps rather than making gross generalizations about either party, we should examine what it is about elected office that either attracts corrupt people or creates corrupt people.” — R

    Couldn’t agree more. As they say, absolute power corrupts absolutely, which is why I’m extremely leary about anyone who have never been forced to go out and actually earn a living, politicians being the worst at this. Think about it, Robert Birds resume is (1) Grand Cyclops of the KKK and (2) U.S. Senator, D- WV. Frankly terrifying…

  290. The reason why Elric gets away with insulting Mohammad is because he’s a lost cause. No one can make him see the light, he will be ignorant til the day he …. can’t type(?)
    You (R) aren’t hard to get through to. At least you have explain the context of why you were yapping about. Elric just goes on an islamophobe tirade.

  291. If Rutherford and the Rabbit were summoned to the Vatican for spiritual guidance by the Pope, who would be in hot water?

    It would be I, the Dead Rabbit.

    The Pope would be nothing but forgiving over Rutherford smearing his name with the inference he is tied to Nazism.

    The Pope is one of the humblest guys you could ever learn about. He certainly wouldn’t fly off the table.

    I misread Rutherford’s complete ignorance of German history and the current Pope’s role in this history.

    I forget that while Rutherford took a Differential Equations class and courses on outdated computer code at Harvard, his world view is mostly a creation stemming out of pop culture. Blurbs and Pulp. Compounding this issue is the fact that Rutherford doesn’t have much real world experience with anything outside a white collar cubical.

    Time and time again, I have seen Rutherford have trouble with perspective and empathy.

    Requiring Rutherford to be aware of the realities attached to living in German society in the 30’s is simply over his head.

    Rutherford has this “action cinema” version of what resistance entails. Wolverines!

    Thus, I came back at him with some below the belt bigotry myself.

    To be honest with you, when someone bashes Catholicism, I think of someone bashing my Mom, Grandmas, and Aunts. It is an institution that has done so much for my widowed Great Aunt. Not just spiritually, but socially. I think of the nuns who took such an interest in my brothers and I growing up (We lived right next door to the parish). I think of Father Don, who I am proud to say wasn’t a pervert, and who did so much for everybody in my neighborhood. What can I say, I am a Polack.

    The difference is I attacked Rutherford personally. A very cowardly thing to do on the internet, if I say so myself.

    In fact, Rutherford has a very positive attitude for one who is disabled. Without sounding cheesy, one of the Rabbit’s main sources of esteem comes from his brute force and strength. I can not imagine traveling life without that advantage. I would probably have turned into a cynical, whinny, bitch, had I been born with a physical disability. (Although sensico would probably say I am one anyways)

    Lastly, while I am vaguely aware my handle is taken from a Catholic gang made famous in the movie Gangs of New York, I never picked the stupid name to make any kind of statement. It’s just the name of one of my league night softball teams.

    I am bar none the last guy on here that should be defending the Pope or Catholicism.

    I don’t get in line for Communion.

    So, sorry Rutherford, my temper got the best of me.

    Sometimes I chop ears like St. Peter.

  292. Maybe I missed something or forgot but I didn’t even realize you were referring to a disability. I don’t even know (or remember) the disability.
    And damn right, you’re already whinny, bitchy, and cynical. If you were a woman, no man would come near you with all that bitchyness lol.
    Back to health care. …. ad,

  293. lol….sensico, you’re lucky I am currently the blog bad guy right now, or I would be tearing into you like a viper.

    Enjoy a few weeks as I call off my offensive and try to get Rutherford to like me again.

  294. Rutherford,

    You’ve gone from over educated rube to dishonest lately. The fact that now you come to defense of a failed human being by invoking his supposed faith upon is retching and phony as hell on your behalf.

    You never miss a chance at taking a cheap shot at Christianity as this very thread attests. Either get on one side of the fence or the other and stop the sanctimonious garbage. You personally should take the advice of the brilliant C.S. Lewis, who once said of Christianity:

    If Jesus was a lunatic and Christianity is lie, then it should be considered of no important and completely discarded. If Jesus is whom He said He was, and Christianity therefore true, it is of the utmost importance. But the one thing Christianity can not be is moderately important.

    Somehow, with Teddy’s lifetime of secular and humanistic decisions, I’m not entirely sure he understood C.S. Lewis’ good advice. Truth of the matter is and you were being honest, I think you know that. 😉

  295. haha, don’t need to tear into me because I already know what you’d say.
    and please, you and Rutherford little bickering drama is like an old married couple. You make fun of me all the time and I don’t care cause you’re just some guy online that I have never met, who probably wouldn’t say half the $hit you say online, offline in someones face. Getting emotional in online battles is sooooo 1990s. I’m sure if you and Rutherford cry while watching soap operas or lifetime channel then you’d realize how unimportant whatever couple argument you have was….unimportant. And in honor of the Flame Wars that happened on this thread and others, heres a little song, just think, it-could-have-been-worse

  296. “Since “insulting” the Pope got me in all sorts of hot water here, I’m not even going to touch insulting Mohammed. I’ll leave that to you Elric … it’s funny that with the exception of Red Pill, you get away with it here without the least bit condemnation.”

    Why not? If you have reservations about the Pope being forced into the Hitler Youth, why wouldnt you have reservations about a “prophet” who married a 6 year old girl and spread his cult by the sword? Seems like a double standard to me.

  297. You’ve gone from over educated rube to dishonest lately. The fact that now you come to defense of a failed human being by invoking his supposed faith upon is retching and phony as hell on your behalf.

    Dag Tex, I thought you’d give me credit for trying. Like I said at the beginning of the brouhaha, I watched the funeral and tried to put myself in Catholic shoes while doing it. Now as I said, all the supernatural stuff had a tough time going down, but I focused on what the priests said about the Kennedy, the man. I was frankly surprised at how they were at once honest about his failings and forgiving about them.

    Now you can call that phony all you want. Did the experience make me want to convert to any form of Christianity? Absolutely not and I never said it did. But I did want to see how Teddy’s more notorious aspects squared with the church and then see how you, a religious man would react to their reaction. You seemed pleased to dismiss their forgiveness as suspect because the Boston Catholic church had major pedo problems. So, it does seem that you doubt Ted’s faith and you discount even the clergy who don’t doubt it.

    Overall a very interesting exercise in seeing religion in action.

  298. Obama Admin: Using Thug Tactics To Force Zeleya Back To Power In Honduras . . .

    A lot of Hondurans believe that the U.S. isn’t using its brass knuckles to serve their “democratic aspirations” at all, but the quite-opposite aspirations of a neighborhood thug.

    http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2009/09/obama-admin-using-thug-tactics-to-force-zeleya-back-to-power-in-honduras-.html#comments

    Hmmmm..even the Hondurans know Thuggy is well a thug. Well when you side with thugs, terrorists and despots you develop a reputation.

  299. Now this is the same guy that dissed the national prayer week.

    Well I can’t speak to his dissing national prayer week. I’d ask you for a link to back that up but I’ll take your word for it.

    So I guess you’re upset with his continuation of George W. Bush’s Faith-based Office? From what I’m reading, leftie demo-marxists like me are worried about what Obama is doing here since he wants to get faith based groups involved in executing policy and perhaps shaping it.

    http://www.usnews.com/blogs/god-and-country/2009/08/31/obama-has-dramatically-changed-role-of-faith-based-office.html

  300. “Elric just goes on an islamophobe tirade.”

    Define islamophobia and give some of examples that pertain to me. And do remember that a phobia is an irrational fear. Until you do so, just shut up and color. 🙂

  301. Once again Dodger cant counter what I said. All he can do is attack the messenger not the message. Oh very leftist of him as usual. Thats the life of a drone for you.

  302. Rutherford, it’s like you’ve never been to a funeral.

    I have yet to figure out why you are citing the words said by a priest at a funeral for some sort of vindication of Teddy’s many wrong doings. That’s between Teddy and God.

    We merely called out his wrongdoings and feel he got a free pass here on Earth.

    For one, you don’t show up to a funeral and anxiously find out what the priest is going to say to see if your loved one made it heaven or not.

    Funerals are for the living, not the dead. Come on man, you know that, don’t you?

    It seems your confusing the Anointing of the Sick (Last Rights) with the funeral or something.

    So, ultimately, if you’re pointing out the funeral itself as a “see, I told you Teddy wasn’t so bad” moment, you’re being silly.

  303. “I’ve never written about it, but as the father of a five year old I am very sensitive to the over-sexualization of children in modern American society.”

    Ho would we know since the first thing out of your mouth was to comment on Michelle Malkin or comment on the one who posted it here about wanting a theocracy? You see, a normal person would have read it and said something like “Thats friggin disgusting”.

  304. Harry Reid Holds Town Hall for Pro-ObamaCare Supporters ONLY

    Elric sometimes it does pay to watch MSNBC. Apparently Mitch McConnell and John McCain also held THINO’s (Town Hall in Name Only) within the past day or so.

    Looks like real town halls have our pols spooked regardless of party. Can’t say I blame them really.

  305. Ted Kennedy’s Letter to Pope Benedict Revealed: A Pitch for ObamaCare, Didn’t Request Absolution for Killing Mary Jo or Abortion Positions…

    Elric, why do you brandish your ignorance with such pride? He says in the letter “I know that I have been an imperfect human being, but with the help of my faith I have tried to right my path.” What more do you want? You want him to say “Dear Pope, I left a girl to die in my wrecked car”? Are you totally bonkers? If Pope Benedict keeps up on the news, he knows about Kennedy’s “imperfections” already, assuming he knows anything about Kennedy at all (I don’t know what sway Camelot has outside the USA). Kennedy doesn’t need to paint him a picture.

    As for abortion, Kennedy, like some other Catholics, differed with the church on that subject so why should he seek absolution?

    The man’s dead, let the hate go dude.

  306. You see, a normal person would have read it and said something like “Thats friggin disgusting”.

    I might have said that had you not blamed the phenomenon on secularism.

  307. Once again Dodger cant counter what I said.

    Since your characterization of me reads the same way every time, I’m not sure which comment this comment refers to. If it’s the faith based initiatives, I did indeed counter what you said. Obama is committed to faith based initiatives and perhaps in a more dangerous way than his predecessor. What about that did you not understand?

  308. Rutherford,

    You make the common mistake of the church’s responsibility for granting forgiveness. I guess you haven’t quite yet figured that to paraphrase Obama “forgiveness of sins is above the church’s pay grade?”

    Like you have with me, I have found your reaction to Teddy’s proposed “religious nature” fascinating, yet comical.

    On one hand, you never miss the chance to mock (which I’ll let God sort out as you’ll get your chance to debate the issue) faith, yet when invoked with leftist politic, well…

    Then it’s all good and well.

    Aren’t you going to take the opportunity to diss Teddy like you do the Pope and the Rabbit “R”? Or is abortion, moral platitudes about universal health care and the poor, and some semblance of correcting past transgressions when they agree with Obama policy enough to make it all okay?

  309. Good Luck Rabbit, hopefully debating me will teach you what not to say to your own child when they start speaking for themselves. Anger management is key 🙂

  310. Tex, my wife’s water is just kind of leaking. If it is her water. They were supposed to call us back, but told us not to go in yet.

    The thing is, she has this strep issue, of which I fully don’t understand, that entails her giving birth within 18 hours of water breaking or the child is at risk.

    Her contractions have only been sporadic. Those have been going on like that for about a week.

    We don’t know whats going on, actually. She may not be going into labor.

    I’m sure your in bed.

    Thanks for the good wishes everybody.

    Later

  311. Getting emotional in online battles is sooooo 1990s” — Sensico

    When what, you were 12?

    Good Luck Rabbit, hopefully debating me will teach you what not to say to your own child when they start speaking for themselves.</I." — Sensico

    She has a point Rabbit, conversations with her are very childish…

    At any rate, good luck and congrats on the new addition!

  312. Q: How will U.S. Sen. (Edward) Kennedy’s death affect things?

    A: I think it’s going to help us. He hasn’t been around for some time. We’re going to have a new chairman of that committee, it’ll be, I don’t know for sure, but I think Sen. (Chris) Dodd, (D-Conn.). He has a right to take it. Either him or (U.S. Sen. Tom) Harkin, (D-Iowa), whichever one wants it can have it. I think he (Kennedy) will be a help. He’s an inspiration for us. That was the issue of his life and he didn’t get it done.

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0909/Reid_Teddys_death_going_to_help_us.html

    Is he even cold yet? And if Dodd is it, well then, with all the great things he has done for banking, I’m sure healthcare will just sail through smoothly. Please…

  313. “I know that I have been an imperfect human being, but with the help of my faith I have tried to right my path.” What more do you want? You want him to say “Dear Pope, I left a girl to die in my wrecked car”? Are you totally bonkers?”

    If you seek forgiveness, you should actually say what for. He wasnt too vague about pimping his health care to the Pope, now was he?

  314. “I might have said that had you not blamed the phenomenon on secularism.”

    A normal person would not try to rationalize not saying he was disgusted with it.

  315. “I did indeed counter what you said. Obama is committed to faith based initiatives and perhaps in a more dangerous way than his predecessor. What about that did you not understand?”

    Just want you explain why Thuggy dissed the National Prayer week, but televised his Ram-a-bomb dinner. Kinda odd dont you think. Why would he do that?

  316. DR,

    I’m a little surprised if your wife that close to her due date (I’m guessing here), they haven’t induced labor. Good luck my friend – I would say I would put you and your wife in my prayers, but that would be taboo on this pagan board, unless you’re a Kennedy where it’s proper and sacrosanct if you can mix in a little Obammie politics with it.

    I’m surprised Obama hasn’t given us a new 10 Commandments yet. As gabby as he is, he probably would make it 20 Commandments.

  317. White House Seeks to Capture and Archive Citizens’ Comments on its Facebook, YouTube, MySpace Sites
    Tuesday, September 01, 2009
    By Fred Lucas, Staff Writer

    President Barack Obama (AP Photo)
    (CNSNews.com) – Anyone who posts comments on the White House’s Facebook, MySpace, YouTube and Twitter pages will have their statements captured and permanently archived by the federal government, according to a plan that the White House is now seeking a contractor to carry out.

    http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/53363

    Sounds pretty fascist to me. How about you Dodger?

  318. Just want you explain why Thuggy dissed the National Prayer week, but televised his Ram-a-bomb dinner. Kinda odd dont you think. Why would he do that?

    Reagan ignored National Prayer week for seven of his eight years in office, doing no public prayer events. Kinda odd don’t you think? Why would he do that?

    What Obama did not do is open up the White House and make it a public event, but instead chose to make it a private thing. You have a problem with that? If you do then why don’t you read the Bible.

    Matthew 6:6

    But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

  319. “What Obama did not do is open up the White House and make it a public event, but instead chose to make it a private thing.”

    Like his Ram-a-bomb dinner on national TV along with his Ram-a-bomb message? You are so full of crap. LOL

  320. Video: Indian Health Services and Congress
    posted at 8:48 am on September 2, 2009 by Ed Morrissey
    Share on Facebook | printer-friendly

    Yesterday, I wrote again about the disastrous single-payer health-care system run by the US government for Native Americans, Indian Health Services. Naked Emperor News put together the following video which details not one but two deaths caused by IHS through incompetence and underresourcing, and shows various members of Congress from both parties assailing the shameful performance of IHS. Why hasn’t Congress reformed its own government-run IHS before attempting to “reform” the private sector?

    This goes beyond the details of the health-care overhaul requirement. This should never have been allowed to fester as long as it has, and Congress under the leadership of both parties has ignored it for far too long. Before this Congress arrogates to itself the power to dictate the reordering of the private sector, it needs to fix the embarrassing program it already runs for some of the poorest people in the US. Ignoring the disaster of IHS while scolding the private sector over tonsillectomies would qualify as a sick joke under any other administration other than Hopeandchange.

    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/09/02/video-indian-health-services-and-congress/

    Yes Dodger, lets let these fools control our health care

  321. Oh please Gorilla, lighten up or something, seems like you’re just wanting a little attention. And there you have it, I just gave your nit-picking overjealous arrogant azz some attention. Happy now?

    You come one here, plagiarize, don’t read the bill you claim you’ve read, follow Rabbit in his childish attacks on me like a little puppy needing to fit in, then you be hypocritical with a childish attack. I’d feel a lot better if you just copied a pasted one of Rabbit’s most prominent attacks on me. At least they were funny and worth reading. You, are just wannabe.

  322. Pelosi to let Rangel keep post as GOP steps up its attacks
    By Alexander Bolton – 09/01/09 06:29 PM ET

    Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) will let Rep. Charles Rangel (D-N.Y.) keep his chairmanship despite his failing to report hundreds of thousands of dollars in assets on federal disclosure forms, according to Democratic aides.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/57029-pelosi-will-let-rangel-hold-post-despite-new-allegations

    Most ethical Congress ever. Right Dodger?

  323. Wow, somebody’s panties are in a bind. 😉

    First off, I’ve been commenting on the language of the bill for some time now, particularly before you received the Dem talking points, so it is you who is behind the times.

    Secondly, you have absolutely no defense for the actual language of the bill, which has been demonstrated several times.

    You seem to have little to no grasp on political-economy and you certainly don’t get ours- or anyone else’s for that matter- governmental structure. You clearly have no fundamental political core belief system, and choose to parrot the bumper stickers of the Messiah, devoid of any notion of what he actually stands for or has actually promoted.

    Plagiarize? I guess I was remiss in not posting the link, but since I’m pretty sure I’ve posted and attributed that article before, I didn’t think it necessary. Shame on me for not spoon feeding the seagulls.

    Here’s a clue, taxes aren’t charity and Obama isn’t honest. You are a poster child- and I emphasize child- for why the Constitution should be amended on who can or should be allowed to vote. Maybe a requirement for actually understanding how the government works coupled with some tangible investment in this country, like taxes should be required, though I cringe at disfranchisement. Regardless, I’d expect anyone who was going to vote to take it serious by understanding what the hell they were doing and who the hell they were voting for, both of which you seem to have failed to do.

    Maybe its youth, or maybe it is the fact that you have never sacrificed anything for the ideals that this nation stands for, and thus struggle to understand the fundamental notions of the American ideal. Or, you could just be a freaking moron, frankly, its anyones guess at this time.

    God knows, I’m heavily invested in this through blood and treasure, and I suspect most of the other ADULTS on this blog are as well. Someday, when you grow up, we can all hope that you become a contributing member of society. Maybe…

  324. Hate is grown for fear. You hate islam because you fear it’s becoming more acceptable in society and with 9/11 and other events you have placed the wrong doing of a few, on a culture. That’s my assessment. And phobia has to do with fear and hate, not just fear alone 😛 Like I said before, you’re a lost cause, which is why I most likely won’t waste this much time again addressing your islamophobia

    Gorilla (Elric 2.0), you’re obviously a lonely man you need some cuteness in your life,


  325. “And phobia has to do with fear and hate, not just fear alone”

    A phobia is an irrational fear. How are my concerns about islam “irrational”?

    Just today 6 Christians were gunned down because they refused to convert. Thats just one example of the life of non muslims in Pakistan. Should non Christians in Pakistan be concerned about islam?

    “Like I said before, you’re a lost cause, which is why I most likely won’t waste this much time again addressing your islamophobia”

    More like because you are a loser like all drones and cant actually debate the issue at hand.

  326. Oh dear Dodgette, 2 Christians were arrested for eating during Ram-a-bomb? Is it ‘islamophobic” for me to mention that? Or were the arresting officers kafirphobic?

  327. You are so full of crap. LOL

    And you are so full of hypocrisy. Why is it A-OK for President Reagan to NOT hold a public event for National Prayer Week 7 of the 8 years he was in office? If you conservatives NEED an edict by the Federal Government to hold a day of prayer then you have much bigger problems you need to be dealing with than whether the president is hosting a public ceremony for it.

  328. Curator,

    Now if Reagen televised a Ram-a-bomb dinner, you would have a point, but he didnt. Im pointing out the hypocrisy of Thuggy. No to National Prayer, yes to Ram-a-bomb dinner on prime time tv.

    Anything else?

  329. Elric, I was at first content with your providing no documentation about this Ramadan dinner and National Prayer week stuff, but now that you’ve rambled on about it for several comments, let’s see a link. (Be nice if you could find something outside Weasel Zippers but that would be asking too much.)

  330. Most ethical Congress ever. Right Dodger?

    When have you heard me singing the praises of congressional ethics? Just because I’m not on the “don’t trust the government” paranoia train that you’re on does not mean I think Congress is beyond reproach.

  331. More like because you are a loser …

    Elric, that’s worse than Rabbit’s “you’re a stupid head” because Rabbit was being funny and you’re not. Isn’t “you’re a loser” kind of third grade? Raise your game dude.

  332. Oh by the way, anyone making a comparison of MSNBC to Weasel Zippers with WZ coming out on top, is living in an alternate universe. 🙂

    Heck, I’d even take a quote from Fox News.

  333. “When have you heard me singing the praises of congressional ethics? Just because I’m not on the “don’t trust the government” paranoia train that you’re on does not mean I think Congress is beyond reproach.”

    Your party promised the most ethical congress ever and your “president” promised to have the most transparent administration ever. Both were flat out lies. And once again you dodge. You could have said that the Speaker should remove a tax cheat from chairing the Ways and Means Committee but you did. In fact, you never condemn any of the corruption from the Democrat side. So you lying just like your demomarxist overlords.

  334. “Oh by the way, anyone making a comparison of MSNBC to Weasel Zippers with WZ coming out on top, is living in an alternate universe.”

    An alternate to your drone universe. AT least the hosts doesnt get tingles over a president.

  335. “Elric, that’s worse than Rabbit’s “you’re a stupid head” because Rabbit was being funny and you’re not. Isn’t “you’re a loser” kind of third grade? Raise your game dude.”

    Awwww….did I offend your little sidekick? Maybe when she can articulate an argument, she will garner more respect. If she is going to label people, at least she can support her argument. She is even more cowardly than you in answer a question. Doesnt speak well of her. 🙂

  336. WOW Elric …. a link from the Examiner that didn’t seem to have any hidden agenda. Shame you didn’t read the part about Bush hosting the same dinner for at least two years.

  337. “Shame you didn’t read the part about Bush hosting the same dinner for at least two years.”

    As far as I know he didnt broadcast it. But you know what? Im not a drone and its just as disgraceful. One of the examples why support from the conservatives fell.

    And what agenda would that be? You see it didnt matter posting it because nothing ever changes your mind even when the proof you ask for is presented. So again, why did you ask for it?

  338. … even when the proof you ask for is presented.

    On the contrary Elric, one of your best links because it not only proved your assertion about Obama but further stated that he was simply following Bush’s example and making it a bit more hi-tech. Well done comrade! 😉

  339. I’m beginning to think tax cheating among the wealthy is as wide spread as herpes among prostitutes. Sadly, a good portion (not most perhaps, but a good portion) of rich folks got that way not entirely by hard work.

  340. “On the contrary Elric, one of your best links because it not only proved your assertion about Obama but further stated that he was simply following Bush’s example and making it a bit more hi-tech. Well done comrade!”

    So? Im not a drone. I had quite a few disagreements with Bush. But you see, he isnt in office. So once again, why did Thuggy fail to make the National Day of Prayer public but felt the need to make his Ram-a-bomb dinner public? Can you answer that Dodger?

  341. Curator, nothing thrills me more than liberals who can quote the bible. The conservabots on this blog assume we’re all religiously ignorant. In my case, mostly guilty as charged … I haven’t invested enough time to study the various “sects” but it isn’t true of all of us.

    Bravo!

  342. “I’m beginning to think tax cheating among the wealthy is as wide spread as herpes among prostitutes. Sadly, a good portion (not most perhaps, but a good portion) of rich folks got that way not entirely by hard work.”

    Why do you find it so hard to condemn corruption in your party and find it so difficult to say these corrupt politicians shouldnt be chairing programs. Why is that Dodger? You a leftist before being a man of principle?

  343. Leader of Muslim Brotherhood-linked group, unindicted co-conspirator in Hamas jihad terror funding case, attends Obama’s Ramadan dinner

    At the very end of the Guest list for Obama’s White House Ramadan dinner (LA Times, September 1, with thanks to Trazar) comes up again the name “Dr. Ingrid Mattson, president, Islamic Society of North America.”

    Federal prosecutors last summer rejected claims that ISNA was unfairly named an unindicted co-conspirator in the Holy Land Foundation Hamas terror funding case.

    ISNA has admitted ties to the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas. The Muslim Brotherhood is waging, in its own words, “a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and ‘sabotaging’ its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and Allah’s religion is made victorious over all other religions.”

    And the head of ISNA was at the White House Ramadan dinner.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/027432.php#respond

    More crap for Dodger to ignore.

  344. “Curator, nothing thrills me more than liberals who can quote the bible. The conservabots on this blog assume we’re all religiously ignorant. In my case, mostly guilty as charged … I haven’t invested enough time to study the various “sects” but it isn’t true of all of us.

    Bravo!”

    Even more hypocrisy on the left. You can use Biblical quotes to make your point with Christians but are branded an “islamophobe” if you do the same with the qur’an.

    Can we call Curator a “Christianphobe” Dodger?

  345. Can we call Curator a “Christianphobe” Dodger?

    Well, no we can’t. Your logic is faulty. You selectively quote the Koran to disparage Islam. Curator quoted the bible to support the notion that prayer is a private matter. He was not disparaging Christianity but rather pointing out that you seem ignorant of its tenets.

    Of course, with your head buried in the Koran all day, you’ve probably lost track of your own religion.

    Mmmmmm, to return to an old Rabbit (or maybe it was Tex or Red Pill) meme … what is your religion exactly Elric? You never have committed one way or the other. 😉

  346. “Well, no we can’t. Your logic is faulty. You selectively quote the Koran to disparage Islam.”

    You act like I wrote the quote

    “… what is your religion exactly Elric? You never have committed one way or the other.”

    You didnt answer the original question of the argument. Why did Thuggy feel the need not to make National Prayer Day public but felt the need to make his Ram-a-bomb dinner public?

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