88 Years of Hate

The title is of course an exaggeration. There is little doubt that 88 year old James W. von Brunn did not emerge from the womb sufficiently full of hate that he would one day attempt to kill visitors of the Washington D.C. Holocaust Museum. Still, a good portion of this man’s life has been spent rabidly and irrationally hating others. In the early 80’s he went to prison for trying to kidnap members of the Federal Reserve. He emerged from prison blaming blacks and Jews for his troubles. Today he decided to take action again and before he could be stopped, he had indeed killed a black man, a guard whose presence at that museum may have saved several lives.

In the past two weeks, we have seen three high profile murders with political underpinnings. Private William Long was murdered by an American convert to Islam. Doctor George Tiller was murdered by a pro-life extremist and now this attack in Washington. What chills me is not so much the expressions of rage and frustration evidenced by these men, it is the fuel that sets them off. What chills me is the environment of intolerance, hatred and outright wackjob rhetoric that serves as the backdrop for these crimes.

Just a few days ago, I wrote in the comments section of this blog my growing concern over the insane speech that I’ve seen in the blogosphere. One of my readers regularly e-mails me unsolicited items concerning nutty conspiracy theories. These notes speak of Obama’s lack of legal authority because he is not a citizen of the United States (by the way, von Brunn was a “birth certificate skeptic”). They speak of impending violence. One of the latest spoke of the World Health Organization upgrading swine flu to pandemic level six which would mandate “global martial law” and give the US government authority to enter your home without warrant. These notes are not sent to me by a skeptic. They are sent to me by a believer.

A couple of months ago I encountered the blog of a man who had recently lost his family to divorce and then his job. He was about to be put out on the street. The blog was full of seething rage and thinly veiled threats of violence against an entire host of perceived enemies  from the government to the church. I chose to make some comments on that blog that were predictably greeted with contempt. After the shooting today in Washington, I now wonder if I shouldn’t have called the blog to the attention of law enforcement.

The Internet has given us a view into people’s souls, some of them very disturbed souls. von Brunn had written enough hate speech on his blog to make today’s act completely predictable. But how do we discern between a person posing, a person just venting, and a person who is truly dangerous? What role do we play in these people’s lives by the words we write in our blogs and our online comments? What role do we play in their lives by reading their vitriolic and usually irrational rants and then ignoring them? We write them off as crackpots. When they take action, is there blood on our hands?

Giving up our free speech is too great a price to pay on the offhand chance that if everybody writes “nice” things, no one will ever be harmed. Violence existed before the advent of the blogosphere and the blogosphere cannot be blamed entirely for the current climate. Yet isn’t it worth our examining what role we play? From the moment someone yelled “kill him” at a John McCain rally (referring to Barack Obama), I knew we were entering the age of the powder keg. Social analysts much smarter than I have pointed out there is a confluence of forces at work right now in this country that can spell danger.

  • People who took their comfort for granted being displaced by a broken economy
  • An increase in the sheer numbers of “minority” folks, making those in the “majority” feel disenfranchised
  • A small but vocal portion of society that associates leadership with male Caucasians and now finds themselves led by a black US president
  • Minority groups who identify for whatever reason with terrorist factions abroad

These are just some of the forces at play. I’ve been accused of being an alarmist. Yet the tea party demonstrations earlier this year, which I dismissed as silly, carried an undercurrent of social unrest. These three recent murders represent a microcosm of society losing control of its inhibitions. How many more incidences will it take before the recently released Homeland Security report is taken seriously rather than met with demands of apology from Janet Napolitano?

I submit that today’s crime and the two crimes that recently preceded it were fueled by words. Words matter. The lack of civility in our public dialogue and the logical abyss into which much of our rhetoric has fallen, only serves as a predictor for subsequent violence and irrational behavior. Unless we want a return to 1968, we must change course. We can only do it by examining our own beliefs and strongly challenging the beliefs of those who might do this country harm. We cannot censor the “nutjobs” but we must shine a bright light on them and declare them for what they are. Complacency at this time in our history is equivalent to complicity in the horrors that may follow.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

WordPress.com Political Blogger Alliance

Advertisements

174 thoughts on “88 Years of Hate

  1. Ah yes, we should have seen this coming. The warning signs were clear. 1 person amid a sea of political supporters yelled out something stupid at a political rally. Boy, that’s sure a clear sign there.

    And these demonstrations against the policies of the current government? Oh man, there were loads of warning signs coming from that crazy bunch. I mean, how dare they rally and speak out against the government?

    I mean, sure we’ve had abortion clinic bombings, white supremacist violence, and domestic terrorism before, but it’s only now, during the glorious Age of Obama that the threat is truely clear.

    All of the warning signs have come from those leaning Right, who’s masses are represented by 1 person’s comment at a political rally and a bunch of people exercising their Constitutional rights to speak out against the government.

    How could we have been so blind?

  2. You missed the big one, Rutherford; the slow collapse of the morals and values that people have at least pretended to follow since the Revolution.

    Yet the tea party demonstrations earlier this year, which I dismissed as silly, carried an undercurrent of social unrest.

    Of course their is social unrest! Why did you think that Obama chose ‘Change’ for his slogan? Because everyone sees that what our government is doing now is not working. Both sides feel it, the difference is how they respond. The Right wants to move into a more compettitive, smaller government nation with a firm set of values. The Left wants a kind of safe, neo-socialist (socialist= bigger government) nation with values relevant to whatever feels good; and where no one criticizes anyone else’s values.

  3. TWC, Even after showing Elric the definition of thug, he continues to use the term in reference to Obama. It’s his way of creating drama. Either that or the man simply has a hard time with the English language.

  4. Solar and Red …. WOW you guys read selectively. Not only did I mention the murder of Private William Long, which had nothing to do with Republicans or right wing extremism, I also included the following bullet item as a factor in our current state of affairs:

    “Minority groups who identify for whatever reason with terrorist factions abroad”

    I don’t mind criticism so long as you guys read the thing first.

  5. Red,

    Are you saying there are no warning signs?

    In July of 2008 Jim David Adkisson from Knoxville Tennessee killed two people and wounded six others during the presentation of a children’s musical at a local church. Afterwords he wrote a four-page letter in which he stated his “hatred of the liberal movement…Liberals in general, as well as gays.” He could be easily classified as a right-wing extremist.

    Scott Allen Woodring a Michigan Militia member killed a Michigan State Police trooper on July 7, 2003, in a standoff with authorities in Newaygo County in western Michigan. State police Inspector Barry Getzen said “We have no idea how or when he escaped,”it’s possible he was dressed in camouflage and “mingled” with police also dressed in military-style fatigues before his escape.” Woodring was a deeply religious man with strong anti-government views. He remained at large for a week since he had plenty of underground help from his like-minded Christian Identity, anti-government contacts.

    A Somerset County man in New Jersey was charged with using explosives to commit bias-related crimes is also suspected of blowing up mailboxes in Warren and Hunterdon counties, authorities said. Robert J. Kubish, 48, of Bridgewater Township, was arrested after investigators found more than 100 homemade bombs at the home he shared with his parents. The search at his home also turned up chemicals used to manufacture explosive devices, paraphernalia expressing anti-Semitic views, and newspaper articles describing mailbox explosions and anti-Semitic graffiti in the Bridgewater Township area.

    Marc Moran, a 43-year-old engineer who proudly admits he’s a member of a national white supremacist group and has published essays denouncing cultural diversity, mixed-race couples, homosexuals, Jews and feminists has filled the unexpired seat on the city council of Hopewell Borough in New Jersey. Moran is a member of the National Alliance, a West Virginia-based organization that advocates having a place to live without nonwhites, an Aryan society and a government that serves the white race and is free from non-Aryan influence.

    One could imagine, however, how they would react if:

    — An Al Qaeda member had slain a state trooper, engaged police in an armed standoff, and had managed to escape capture and was at large in the countryside.

    — An Al Qaeda sympathizer was arrested for blowing up the mailboxes of Jews who lived in his vicinity and was found with a large arsenal of bombs in his home.

    — A member of Al Qaeda was appointed to the town council of an American city.

    Since Obama’s inauguration we have had:

    Richard Poplawski, a right-wing extremist, allegedly gunned down three police officers in Pittsburgh.
    Scott Roeder, another right-wing extremist assassinated Dr. George Tiller in Kansas.
    James Von Brunn, another right-wing extremist, allegedly opened fire at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum.
    Radicalized Islamic terrorists Abdulhakim Muhammad guns down Pvt. William Long

    A little known story…

    James Cummings of Maine was shot to death by his wife in December. Authorities say there was a cache of radioactive materials in his home suitable for building a “dirty bomb.” FBI report stated there was evidence linking James Cummings to white supremacist groups. Amber Cummings, 31, told investigators that her husband spoke of “dirty bombs,” and was “very upset” when Obama was elected president.

    The mainstream media still haven’t touched the story. Would this have been an instant headline if the guy was Muslim?

    Do we feel safer and more secure when we put our blinders on?

  6. Curator, that’s a good point about James Cummings. He was a pretty scary dude, according to what has been reported so far — with a million-dollar trust fund, a Nazi admirer with a personal collection of Hitler memorabilia, plenty of radioactive material, and a serious interest in building a “dirty bomb.”

    It’s been covered in the local media here in Maine, particularly in the Bangor Daily News, because he lived in Belfast, Maine and his wife shot him to death. She says he abused her constantly and is now pleading insanity.

  7. Curator,

    I noticed you never dredge up any of these left-wing anarchists who show up at every lib lovefest – you know, those that parade around throwing bricks through windows, assaulting security guards, etc…I guess in your world that’s proper decorum.

    Because after all, it’s only these right-wing radicals who are hatemongers.

    P.S. – Somehow, I doubt Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad, formerly known as Carlos Bledsoe, voted for George Bush.

  8. Not really in line with the nature of Rutherford’s post – not having to do with right-wing extremism at all, but with the existence of the Holocaust museum. I’m frankly of the opinion that it has no business being on the national mall, and this from a rabidly liberal Holocaust non-denier. As a cultural artifact, the museum has a strange placement at the forefront of our society. There is a Holocaust museum in 47 of 50 states, and we have one on our national mall, while more relevant national museums (such as the native american museum) are forced to build farther away.

    If you’ve ever been to the museum, it’s an unparalled saddening experience. You’re assigned the number and picture of a child killed in the Holocaust,. walk through how their life must have been and in the end, see how their life was ended. The entire trip is intended to laden people with guilt and sadness about the experience of the Holocaust.

    And after leaving, I end up being pissed off. Not because I don’t believe in the horrors of the Holocaust, but because there is no reason in hell I should be guilted about it. Both my grandfathers fought in WWII, my great uncle spent 3 years of the war sneaking Jews from France to Spain. My whole political philosophy is built around ensuring human rights and respect, civil liberties, etc… Yet the museum, while doing an incredible job of pervading you with guilt and sadness, the horrors of Nazi Germany, does little to fortify you with pride on the light of the West, democracy, and the Allies.

    I know the mantra is “never again,” but do they honestly think the way to go about ensuring that is by embroiling people in guilt, sadness and for those people who are pushed over the edge, hate over the holocaust. The way of ensuring, to me, that it never happens again, is by advocating for those societal stopgaps against genocide. Meanwhile the sick and twisted find ways to tap into that guilt, and turn it into loathing. It’s no coincidence that Vonn Brunn picked the Holocaust Museum, it’s the number one hated symbol amongst white supremacists, because they “hate” the guilt that they are intended to feel. Most deniers start out believing in the Holocaust, but denying becomes a method of self-denial, or rationalization, to make the guilt go away.

  9. Well, as a relative outsider to the rutherford dialog.. here’s my 2 cents:

    a) the internet has made all these conversations extremely public. Even emails enable someone to communicate faster and with less effort than a regular letter. So all the hate that used to swirl around coffee tables and local bars is now out there for “the rest of us” to witness.

    b) Extreme views – or any views – grow stronger with encouragement. Having found a broad online cohort, there is more momentum that is built up by those with shared opinions, encouraging them.

    c) Because these are comments of folks we don’t know, we often are too lazy to counteract them, in blogs or in ridiculous email forwards. So, if someone’s wife would tell him “Lay off, Rob”, there’s no equivalent tempering mechanism.

    d) Finally, people are trying to make sense of their world. If they start with a few skewed assumptions, try to build a view around it… With A-C in place, it does veer off course.

    My biggest “root cause” suspicion is that this stems from a societal lack of accountability. But that’s another blog.

  10. Rutherford: “Not only did I mention the murder of Private William Long….”

    Yes, but that is something that took place after you recieved your Right-leaning warning signs. That is effect, not cause.

    “I also included the following bullet item as a factor in our current state of affairs:

    “Minority groups who identify for whatever reason with terrorist factions abroad””

    This really doesn’t have anything to do with the left or the right, does it?

    Curator: What I am saying is that America is a very violent place, and has been for a lot longer than anyone has given a damn about Barack Obama.

  11. Hey Rutherford,

    All the sudden you seem so concerned about improper etiquette in dialogue. Where was your concern when your side was screaming Nazi, Fascist, Muslim hater, or War Monger about George Bush? Where was your concern when our military was being accused of being murderers, rapists, and mercenaries by the MSM and Hollywood? Where’s your concern when David Letterman slanders a 14 year old daughter of Sarah Palin about Alex ‘knocking her up’ at the ballpark, and thinking it great fun? Did you laugh?

    I can understand your worry, though I think you’re continual reference to the John McCain campaign speech and some loon yelling “kill him” a 400lbs red herring. For all we know that was a plant from the left – and yeah, they have been known to pull shit like that.

    But from someone that never misses a chance to view Keith Olbermann for his “balanced” conversation, or Rachel Maddow for her “delicate” dialogue while making accusation about the homophobes on the right, which invariably leads to something being said on this very blog in verbatim quote, I have a question.

    Any chance you’re deaf in the left ear and blind in the left eye?

  12. Where’s your concern when David Letterman slanders a 14 year old daughter of Sarah Palin about Alex ‘knocking her up’ at the ballpark, and thinking it great fun? Did you laugh?

    Ooooh Tex, thank you thank you thank you! I actually wanted to blog about this but felt the von Brunn story more important.

    Sarah Palin has proven herself to be a heartless, cynical opportunist. Anyone with half a brain knows that David Letterman was referring to Palin’s already knocked-up daughter Bristol. One can argue it makes the joke only marginally less offensive but it is Palin who put her 14 year old daughter into the public discourse for pure political purposes. Palin knows full well that Letterman was referring to Bristol, not Willow, yet Palin was willing to submit her 14 year old to public chatter for the sake of scoring political points. I used to think Sarah Palin was merely a twit, but she has proven herself to be a scumbag as well.

    And for you, a supposedly intelligent man, to parrot this pure crap about Letterman making sexual jokes about a 14 year old … I ask you … who’s the shill now, Tex?

  13. “Not really in line with the nature of Rutherford’s post – not having to do with right-wing extremism at all, but with the existence of the Holocaust museum. I’m frankly of the opinion that it has no business being on the national mall, and this from a rabidly liberal Holocaust non-denier. As a cultural artifact, the museum has a strange placement at the forefront of our society. There is a Holocaust museum in 47 of 50 states, and we have one on our national mall, while more relevant national museums (such as the native american museum) are forced to build farther away.”

    Actually, Marc, the Holocaust Memorial Museum is not on the national mall, but nearby, and the National American Indian is on the mall.

    I, too, had a sense of sadness after visiting the Holocaust Museum, but for me it was accompanied with a profound respect for the potential consequences of pure racism, and a desire not to let a similar tragedy happen again. I found it to be a worthwhile experience — though probably not for young children.

  14. By the way, Rutherford, your title for this post caught my eye immediately, under the circumstances. Are you aware that the number “88” is used as an identifier by neo-Nazis? “H” is the eighth letter of the alphabet, so it is said to signify the phrase “heil Hitler.”
    I’ve read a suggestion that perhaps von Brunn, who was a long-time leader in the neo-Nazi movement but had been quiet or “dormant” for some time, may have committed this act now in part to get that very number into headlines and newspaper stories — but who can know at this point?

  15. Marc, you raise an interesting question and ironically I was toying with writing a blog post about American guilt and how it effects our policy toward Israel when this nutjob came on the scene and changed my priorities.

    Criticizing how we actually deal with the aftermath of the holocaust is always treacherous as it can so easily get one labeled an anti-Semite. For example, I think there is a big difference between “never forget” and “because you once abused me I can now do anything I want”. I personally favor a two-state solution because intuitively I think it brings a fair resolution to differences in that region. Because Obama recognizes that Palestinians are people too, he is labeled anti-Israel. It’s a shame.

    To make a long story short, I understand your point about the guilt factor. But here’s an interesting spin on it. The last time I visited Atlanta, the city was promoting tours of the old plantations. My thought is why would anyone want a tour of a place that symbolizes slavery? Isn’t it funny how our country builds museums to honor the millions of dead Jews yet it invites people to come celebrate the history of oppression against blacks in the name of promoting Southern culture?

    Editor’s note: OK my shields are up and in position as I know this last comment will result in a slew of incoming torpedoes. Fire away!

  16. TWC … wow … I wish I could say my putting 88 in the title had the level of sophistication to which you alluded. It was merely a reference to his age and I liked the assonance of the phrase.

  17. Elric, it ought to alarm you when you over-rely on one phrase. First, it was harping on Obama’s GPA. Then calling Obama a thug repeatedly. And now calling me the Dodger.

    Now mind you, I don’t particularly mind being called names. I used to be called “Rutherfraud” by Tex back in ChenZhen’s Chamber.(Remember those good ole days Tex?) But I at least ask for some intellectual integrity in your name calling.

    How am I dodging anything by pointing out that Sarah Palin inserted her 14 year old daughter into this debate, not Letterman? How am I dodging anything by saying that to do so makes Ms. Palin a scumbag?

  18. “Well, TWC, you can take Elric’s explanation for why he calls Obama a thug, or you can take mine. I like mine better.”

    Of course you do Dodger, you are a good little Obamaobot .

    TWC,

    A good example would be throwing out a case against the Black Panther who were wielding night sticks to intimidate voters.

  19. “How am I dodging anything by pointing out that Sarah Palin inserted her 14 year old daughter into this debate, not Letterman? How am I dodging anything by saying that to do so makes Ms. Palin a scumbag?”

    Im refering to all the other questions I have directed towards s you Dodger, not that one. Your name is now dodger, not that dodged a comedian targeting young girls while your thug in chief chuckled it up about Rush getting kidney failure. Of course that didnt bother you. The thug in chief can do no wrong.

  20. Holocaust Museum Shooter: Christian-Hating Socialist

    Now Elric …. that’s a news flash! Nazi’s hate Catholics. Thanks for the education.

    The article you post is ridiculously simplistic. Von Brunn did not need to be a conservative for us to rightly point to the anti-government discourse of the right wing as stoking the flames of violent discord in this country.

  21. What I am saying is that America is a very violent place, and has been for a lot longer than anyone has given a damn about Barack Obama.

    Red,

    I can deal with that fact, however it hardly exonerates the people who have constantly demonized Democrats or Liberals as the root of all evil over the past many decades. On the contrary, it only underscores the gross irresponsibility of the rhetoric from the likes of Beck, Hannity, Savage, and Limbaugh — and stands as one of the important reasons why this hateful talk has to stop. There is no doubt that Democrats , liberals and progressives are the target of hateful rhetoric these days. There is also no doubt that, at least on several occasions, there are unstable people who take that rhetoric too seriously.

    Even last years killing of the Democratic Party chairman in Little Rock, Arkansas, is now being attributed to yet another case in which an unhinged wingnut decided to “take out” more liberals. When do we wake up and realize that the conservative wingnut manifesto includes a belief that all liberals should be killed?

    Where is my list of conservatives killed by liberal left-wing radicals during Bush’s years in office?

    Oh wait…

  22. “Now Elric …. that’s a news flash! Nazi’s hate Catholics. Thanks for the education.”

    We was a socialist Dodger. You know….a LEFT winger

  23. Elric, I don’t know anything about that case involving a Black Panther. When and where did it take place, and what was Obama’s involvement?

  24. Random thoughts:
    1.Holocaust museum not really like the other Mall offerings. It’s not truly national. Holocaust memorials unfortunately have a very large dose of zionism to them. Therefore they stand as instigators as well as remembrance. Ultimately they fail to heal anything since they solidly demand remembering the wound.

    2.Museums,memorials:Plantations. Historical realities should be visited,or at least available.

    3.The recent killings. Completely unconnected and undeserving the linkage the net and parts of the MSM are giving them. Lone wolves are not really good examples of impending civil war and societal upheaval. I don’t know exactly where the line between single players and actual groups is but I’m pretty sure if one dreams of massive conspiracies lurking about you will indeed start to see them.

    4. Right Left killers,nutters etc. I laugh at how the opposing sides like to stress the perceived orientation of those that comment the crimes. Dead is dead and criminal is criminal. One could say leftists are just too big a bunch a pussies to take final action. Or you could say that the left takes a more intellectual approach deciding to erode the society from within via academia etc. Does it matter ? And if I hear one more person link one of these so called “conservative extremists” to those that believe in rights,the Constituion,low taxes and responsible government I swear I’m gonna kill them.

  25. Here’s another instance of apparent hate-motivated violence: Keith Luke, a 22-year-old white supremacist who reportedly told police that he went on a rape and murder spree in Brockton, Massachusetts the day after President Obama was inaugurated after reading on the internet about “the demise of the white race” and because he was “fighting for a dying race.”
    He showed up for a court appearance last month with a freshly-carved swastika in his forehead.

    http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/05/11/was-alleged-massachusetts-spree-killer-a-neo-nazi-keith-luke-makes-it-official/

  26. Thanks for the link, Elric. I didn’t see any mention of President Obama’s involvement, so I’m still not sure why you point to that as a reason to refer to the President of the United States as the “thug-in-chief.”

  27. @ twc. Don’t really want to be part of this but… I think the incident reflects more on Holder and connects very well with the points thinking people had in their displeasure on his selection. In2 Hold on Holder
    I’d add that it’s funny how career DoJ folks were treated in the media in this case as opposed to a certain handful of previous DoJ pro’s. You know what I’m saying ?

  28. An artificial political continuum, nothing more then a construct, claims white supremacy on the right, black supremacy on the left, neo-Nazi on the right, communist on the left.

    The neo-Nazis are pissed we have a “Negro” president.

    The Tea Party Demonstrators are pissed about fiscal lunacy.

    Can someone point out the correlation between the two?

    I own a shortwave radio and tune in the HF frequencies to listen to the propaganda of Iran and Cuba for shits and giggles. Sometimes I tune in one of those Michigan Militia types. They hate conservatives. Hate Bush. Hate Obama. They hate big business. They hate Israel. They hate Catholics. They deny 9/11. All in a 20 minute show.

    Some of them are even now espousing some odd Nordic pagan religion.

    How dare Rutherford slander me with these people.

    Rutherford is trying to

    1. hint that the Michigan Militia is Dead Rabbit, just more hard core.

    False.

    2. a product of Dead Rabbit’s arguments.

    False.

    3. a product of Obama being black

    False. However, no doubt about it, Obama has brought a few of their holes.

    4. Are a symptom of the mood of the masses

    False. The masses are starting to yawn over Rutherford incessant race “meme” and stare at Nazi’s like they are a circus freaks. The youth of this country are even less inclined to buy into that fascist crap.

    Hence, the age of our Holocaust Center killer.

  29. Rutherford, you really don’t get it, do you?

    You of all people, someone who has a daughter of their own, would somehow excuse Letterman’s behavior is inexcusable and indefensible. Just about the time I start shaking my head in agreement with some of the things you write, even if I am digging you about your one-sidedness, you drop the veil and the lost soul comes diffusing out.

    It doesn’t matter which Palin daughter it was, or how old she was, or whether she had a baby out of wedlock, or not. David Letterman should be caned for his inanity. I thought you smarter than that. You obviously aren’t.

    So let me see if I understand this right so that this time we are all playing by the same rules and you don’t prose one-sided commentary about the unfairness of it all. When Obama accompanies his kids for ice cream on TV, or takes them on any trip with him for the same “publicity stunt”, therefore it will now be perfectly permissible for anyone to make the most vile of comments about his kids? If I see them getting raped by an ape in a photoshopped pic, or someone makes some vulgar gesture about Obama’s children, I’m supposed to shrug it off and tell you that Obama had it coming? Correct? And if I do, and you call me on it, I’m just going to say you’re shilling and Obama’s a political opportunist who should have hid his daughters in the closet.

    When and if it happens, I don’t want you accusing anyone of being some cruel, unfair bastard, or some racist because they happen to be black, or the multitude of other double standard excuses you use too often here on your blog. Because I’m going to call you on it and I’m going to go back to this thread to show you a phony if you do.

    But I’ve got to honestly admit this time, that for someone I consider my equal in age, life experiences, and education, the fact that you would respond with that retort on this particular thread makes you look like you’ve lost your mind, or that I have woefully misjudged your character. We can disagree on politics. I won’t bug you even about your religion, or lack thereof though I wish you would give more consideration. But the fact I now question your decency…if you get my drift.

    Though you won’t listen to me, I do pose this: instead of asking why the discourse in this country has reached critical proportions and gussying it up for your blog, what you ought to be doing is looking in the mirror and saying “why do I let it come to this and why do I continue to be party to it?”

    You somewhere lost the good sense God gave you…

  30. Rutherford, you used your daughters gymnastic sessions as an excuse for lack of posting. Have you then brought your daughter into the debate? Is it open game on her??

    Hell no. I would never in a million years even thought of bringing something up like this until I read that your cool with a joke about a 14 year old girl having sex with a grown man.

    Rutherford. Making fun of a 14 year old fucking a MLB player just isn’t funny.

    Hate what Palin stands for. Fine.

    But damn, dude. You’re cool with stuff like that? That is a 14 year old girl going to the ball game with her mother.

    That shit don’t fly in my parts.

    Maybe I got you pegged wrong. Maybe you’re some kind of sick fuck that would let his own daughter be disrespected in the worst way on national television….or…a blog with 100’s of responses.

  31. Rabbit,

    An artificial political continuum, nothing more then a construct, claims white supremacy on the right, black supremacy on the left, neo-Nazi on the right, communist on the left.

    AMEN! And my friend, I am damn thankful there are people like you in this world that realize that.

    This assignment of militia nuts to the right is as ignorant as assigning Hitler to the Christians. I think about that every time I look at a Normandy beach and see all those crosses lining all those graves.

    These survivalists no more represent me or my thinking than Rutherford does.

  32. Rabbit,

    You do realize that “R” will now be thinking you and I collaborated on those posts, even if neither of us capable of typing that quickly?

    You won’t take this as a compliment probably, but even if we did come from two different sides of the track, more often than not, I sure do believe somewhere we came to the same conclusions about life and share a common bond.

    For somebody always practicing self-deprecation, I find your wisdom about important matters pretty damn wise.

  33. lol…..maybe we’re setting the bar pretty low. but if we can’t find common ground and say enough is enough when it comes to defaming a 14 year old girl on national television in such a sick way, there is no hope for mankind.

    yeah…we posted that at the same exact time.

  34. Elric,

    Am I allowed to say I wish for Letterman to have kidney failure?

    I’m patient. I can wait for this maggot’s time to come. I only wish I could be there when it does to remind him of his arrogance and witness on the absolute fear on his face when “time’s up.”

  35. My brother’s wife has found out she has a hyper-thyroid. Unfortunately, they think this may have caused mental retardation in his 2 year old (who isn’t talking) and 9 month year old. We are awaiting blood work.

    This should have been detected earlier but wasn’t.

    As a Dad to be and the fact that its my family, I’m crushed right now.

    My brother has worked his ass off, sleeps in his car because of the long drive due to the house he can’t sell, served 3 years in the gulf.

    He doesn’t deserve this but who does.

    Within a 24 hour period I’ve gone from someone who had close to no true empathy for the mentally disabled to wanting to rip anyone’s head off that makes a retard joke.

    God help my Brother.

  36. Dave Letterman says he was referring to 18 year old Bristol and not the younger 14 year old.

    Remember Bristol the 18 year old that got knocked up? It is a pretty bad joke and doesn’t even work if you think about it. Bristol wasn’t at the game, but the 14 year old was, so Dave’s excuse doesn’t pass the smell test.

    Even though Willow is 14, it’s only a matter of time before she meets her own Levi Johnson and pops out another little Palin bastard named Trick, Prigg, Moose or Comet.

    The Palins will be the brunt of teen pregnancy jokes for years to come, and it’s their own fault for being so laughable.

  37. “Even though Willow is 14, it’s only a matter of time before she meets her own Levi Johnson and pops out another little Palin bastard named Trick, Prigg, Moose or Comet.

    The Palins will be the brunt of teen pregnancy jokes for years to come, and it’s their own fault for being so laughable.”

    And they say the right is cruel and vicious.

  38. Rabbit,

    I bet Curater wouldn’t say it to Mr. Palin’s face.

    Oh, you know this Curator coward wouldn’t. Another in a long list of panty sniffers from the left, masquerading with some “savage” for his emblem when the neighborhood girls would be kicking his ass if he ventured out.

  39. Rutherford I don’t see what grounds you have to believe Letterman knew or cared what daughter he was referring to. I guess you could try to hang your hat on the thought that he was going for the tried and true angle of Bristol but that’s pretty week.
    Curator your last started fine. Based on some real logic and then you went where you did. What is wrong with you dude ?

  40. Curator is the liberal’s answer to Tex Taylor and I could not be happier to have him here! ROTFL!!!

    Let’s set the record straight. I did not know that Willow was at the baseball game with Palin. I would wager that Letterman’s writers were sloppy and they did not know that it was Willow and not Bristol who was at the game.

    For the record, if Letterman’s staff deliberately made a statutory rape joke about a 14 year old, it’s reprehensible. If Letterman read this joke off the cue card knowing it was about a 14 year old, he should be severely reprimanded. I’ve watched Letterman on and off for years and I have never gotten the indication that he would stoop so low as to make sexual jokes about a 14 year old. That is why I don’t believe that is what he had in mind this time.

    Now that I know Willow was at the ballgame, it takes Palin out of scumbag status (for now) since her assumption the joke was about Willow is understandable.

    And while we’re on the subject of appropriate discussion of minor’s sexuality, I’ll have you know Tex and Rabbit that before you guys started visiting here I had written a piece about the whole birth of Trig Palin and after publishing it, I decided, with no pressure from anyone, that the piece was in poor taste and I deleted it from my blog.

    So, please save the moralistic lectures. If society forgot about Letterman and spent that time casting a disapproving eye on parents who let their kids get out of control sexually, then Bristol wouldn’t be a mommy right now and Curator’s prediction of Willow’s future wouldn’t come true. But of course, the typical republican can only see promiscuity when it comes from welfare mothers. The eye goes blind when it happens in one of their “good” families.

  41. “Curator your last started fine. Based on some real logic and then you went where you did. What is wrong with you dude ?”

    He’s a liberal.

  42. “Now that I know Willow was at the ballgame, it takes Palin out of scumbag status (for now) since her assumption the joke was about Willow is understandable.”

    Geee how noble of you

  43. “But of course, the typical republican can only see promiscuity when it comes from welfare mothers.” -R

    Well…..I pay for that promiscuity.

    Actually…..you cheered me up. I was really starting to wonder about you.

  44. Rabbit, I’m sorry to hear what your brother’s family is going through. I don’t want to sound preachy but as a disabled person myself, parents do best when they get the best they can out of their kids, regardless of the challenges. Mentally disabled children can grow up to live lives full of giving and receiving love. While I know the word “blessing” coming from me may fall on deaf ears, I do believe every child is a blessing and you make the most of what you’ve got.

    As for any medical malpractice (which your comment hinted at), I’ve had two instances in my life when I should have sued the pants off doctors (once with my mother and once with myself). I didn’t. If your brother thinks doctors screwed up he should decide whether a law suit will bring him satisfaction and if it will, he should pursue it.

  45. Hey Ruthfrod,

    Guess who is fighting over the Rabbit? 12 angry, hard hitting blackmen.

    I have been asked to play in a black softball league. By tradition, at least 2 white guys are to be on each team.

    Ironically, there is a shortage of white guys and us whites are typically far better at softball. So the competition is fierce to get us.

    Tex would be a huge hit. He plays short stop.

  46. Thanks Rutherford,

    My brother is handling this much better then I am. He says he doesn’t care if they are not smart. He loves them anyways.

  47. Well…..I pay for that promiscuity.

    I can’t say exactly how, but I’d venture to say a buck or two of your tax dollars somehow indirectly came to the aid of Bristol Palin. We’d just have to follow the money trail.

  48. on parents who let their kids get out of control sexually,

    Wow that is some funny stuff.
    DR….so you’re a target of an affirmative action ?

  49. “Elric, not trying to be noble … simply saying that facts make a difference in my assessment of things. You should try facts sometime Elric.”

    Yes Dodger because it makes a big difference calling someone’s 14 yr old daughter a whore and someone’s 18 year old daughter a whore on national TV.

  50. How dare Rutherford slander me with these people?

    Actually, Rabbit I wouldn’t necessarily accuse YOU of writing truly incendiary stuff. But you’re damn right that people (like Bill O’Reilly) who causally throw vitriolic rhetoric around, contribute to an environment in which the Von Brunn’s of the world pop a fuse.

    The argument that I see being made in this thread is that the dude who yells fire in a theater is exercising his free speech and it’s all the knuckle heads who listen to him and trample each other to death that are to blame. There is no doubt that Von Brunn is ultimately accountable for his actions. But that is not what this piece is about. This piece is about the role we play in the public debate and whether certain kinds of debate pour gasoline on the fire rather than help put the fire out. It’s really that simple.

  51. Well Elric, it’s not “nice” to call anyone a whore. But yes there is a difference between calling someone who is old enough to vote and has a baby out of wedlock a whore and calling someone whom we assume is sexually inactive a whore. Comedy is a slippery slope Elric. There is a lne and everyone has to decide where that line is.

    There is a joke among comedians called “the aristocrats”. It is a very long joke that is about as offensive as you can imagine, incest … pedophilia … bestiality, etc all packed into one joke. The point of the joke is for the comedian to see just how gross he can be. Not necessarily my cup of tea but there a lot of comedians who think it is hysterical.

  52. “But yes there is a difference between calling someone who is old enough to vote and has a baby out of wedlock a whore and calling someone whom we assume is sexually inactive a whore.”

    Well she wasnt old enough to vote when she had the kid. Its also odd coming from a “comedian” who had a kid himself out of wedlock but didnt make it public for years because of privacy issues.

  53. lol…Alfie…..yes I am. Affirmative action’s kind of fun when your on the party end of it.

    Speaking of my pathetic underworld of competitive softball, my left fielder got his high school football number tattooed on both forearms.

    The number?

    88!

    I think he found out only an hour after getting the ink done that 88 is a well known Nazi tattoo.

    Problem is, he gets locked up about once every 4 years for stupid stuff.

    We razz him about being a Nazi when he bats.

  54. So it it ok to call Obama’s mom a whore? She was knocked up before she got married. Whats even more hilarious, she married a muslim who already had a wife and get this…….she didnt know.

    No, we cant do that. Its Obama. He is beyond ridicule. He is after all “sort like a god watching all over us”

    Not endorsing it. Im not a lib

  55. lol….Bill O’Reilly?

    The man amazes me. His show is cool sometimes, I guess. But it baffles me how he pulls in such monstrous ratings.

    It also baffles me how much the left hates him.

    He’s moderately conservative.

    The dude sounds like every Irish Catholic or Polish guy over 60 I have ever met. (minus his take on labor)

    I mean, you obviously disagree with some of his stuff. But, Rutherford, what is so evil about him?

    Seriously, what has the man ever said that bad, that you feel he is responsible for domestic terrorism.?LOL.

    The guy is an entertainer and talks on prime time TV an hour a night. Surely such a provocateur would have countless examples of “hate speech”.

    That’s like me saying Al Gore is responsible for ELF attacks.

  56. “R”

    And while we’re on the subject of appropriate discussion of minor’s sexuality, I’ll have you know Tex and Rabbit that before you guys started visiting here I had written a piece about the whole birth of Trig Palin and after publishing it, I decided, with no pressure from anyone, that the piece was in poor taste and I deleted it from my blog.

    So, please save the moralistic lectures.

    And you think that is something to behold? Why would you pen the crap in the first place?

    Yes Dodger because it makes a big difference calling someone’s 14 yr old daughter a whore and someone’s 18 year old daughter a whore on national TV.

    “R”, I hope you’re picking up on Elric’s comment. He is, of course, absolutely right in your hypocrisy.

    But I can see why you like the Curator. He’s got many of your same traits. The first is that he conveniently avoids answering questions that he has no answer…as he has yet to address mine. That’s why I called him Rutherford lite.

  57. DR: In the minds of liberals, people are not responsible for their own actions. Rather, they are victims of someone else’s actions.

    Remember when people blamed heavy metal music for the stupid crap their kids did? Parents started sending their kids to heavy metal detox centers in the late 80s. Pressure was put on advertisers to stop advertising on heavy rock and metal radio stations.

    And who led the charge? Tipper Gore.

  58. Red Pill,

    Dude, I think you’re right. You know man, I’m coming to really see the light, as of late.

    I cherish Freedom. Plain and simple. Rutherford et al, despite what they will say, do not.

    I know I sound like that Glen Beck guy right now, but I can’t help it. (I have a theory the guy is ripping the Rabbit off)

    I’m willing to sacrifice crazy bastards shooting me, dummies protesting my ideas.

    I’ll even take it a step farther and challenge Tex on this one.

    I’m even prepared to sacrifice things like my idea of marriage.

    Freedom.

    If a state decides that two swinging dicks can get married. So be it. What the hell do I care.

    Freedom.

    If we start truly advocating Freedom, compromising only when Freedom itself is threatened, we can sleep easy.

    Freedom to fail a fricking test, for God’s sake.

    Freedom to bust your ass and pass the damn thing.

    Freedom to win.

    Freedom to lose.

    And if we do lose, God Bless us. We tried.

    I’ve never once said the far left should be muted. Never once. For example, when patchouli drenched corn balls were rallying in favor of the Taliban in October, 2001, it never crossed my mind that they should be silenced. Not even when the flesh and debris in ground zero was still cooking.

    Rutherford is a coward. Just look how an 89 year old piece of garbage emasculates R. The 89 year old piece of shit didn’t kill that dude, according to Rutherford, some diseased element of our society did.

    His voice trembles that our 1st amendment might not be worth it.

    It’s Bill O’Reilly’s fault. It the socio-economic condition of Yemen’s fault. It’s the history of black people and never a black man’s fault.

    Keep following his logic. It’s not even possible to ever be Dead Rabbit’s fault. Or Tex’s fault. Or Bush’s. Or Hitler’s. Or the dumb ass that rear ended you while text messaging.

    Rutherford is a nihilist! A real nowhere- nowhere man!

    We all vanish in Rutherford’s system. We are ghosts.

    The fact that I was alive to watch a black man become President of the United States brings me great pride. (Yes, the dude is black). What a bench mark. Only 150 years since one of the bloodiest Civil Wars in World History! Yet, for Rutherford it brings only fear. Maybe it’s just not worth it, he bemoans. He hopes this 4 years goes quick “so the man can live in peace”.

    Are you kidding me? To me, that was one of the weakest, most embarrassing things I’ve ever heard anyone say.

    Would Rutherford have joined Marten Luther King in protest?

    Would Rutherford stick up for a 14 year old girl if she is being dishonored in front of a jeering crowd?

    What if this nation was made up of 300 million Rutherfords?

    Can you imagine?

  59. “For the record, if Letterman’s staff deliberately made a statutory rape joke about a 14 year old, it’s reprehensible. If Letterman read this joke off the cue card knowing it was about a 14 year old, he should be severely reprimanded. I’ve watched Letterman on and off for years and I have never gotten the indication that he would stoop so low as to make sexual jokes about a 14 year old. That is why I don’t believe that is what he had in mind this time.

    Now that I know Willow was at the ballgame, it takes Palin out of scumbag status (for now) since her assumption the joke was about Willow is understandable. ”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/11/letterman-responds-to-pal_n_214128.html

    Well then, Rutherford, do you feel Letterman handled this “mistake” the right way?

    You be the judge. Is this how a man deals with the fact he accidentally slurred a 14 year old girl?

    Sniveling. Disgusting.

    Man up. Explain your mistake. Move on.

    I swear this is worse then the original joke. This is not how a man apologizes. Playing the audience like that. Please tell me you see though this stuff.

  60. @ Red:
    “In the minds of liberals, people are not responsible for their own actions. Rather, they are victims of someone else’s actions.”

    I’m a liberal, and I believe people are responsible for their own actions.
    Are you talking about Bill O’Reilly and his commentaries on Dr. Tiller, referring to him as a “baby-killer,” etc., over and over and over again?

  61. He is a baby killer. He kills people with toe nails, finger nails, dreams, hiccups, hearts, brains, restlessness, playfulness, eyebrows, smiling faces, nerves, genitalia, REM sleep.

    Is my opinion hate speech? Should I stop?

    Most people in America believe he is a baby killer.

    That’s all you got?

    O’s pro life argument?

    What a joke.

    O’Reilly thinks late term abortion is murder. So do I.

    No matter your opinion on abortion, if someone feels late term abortion to be murder, I’m not sure how even you would expect that person to be quiet about it. Are you that incapable of walking in another man’s shoes?

    It’s one thing to disagree with me on such a sensitive topic. Quite another for you to want my voice to squashed. This makes you fascist pig in my book.

    You’re a deplorable American and it has nothing to do with your politics.

  62. “If we start truly advocating Freedom, compromising only when Freedom itself is threatened, we can sleep easy.”

    Sometimes the Dead Rabbit makes no sense, particularly when he goes in dramatic speech mode.

  63. Well, dead rabbit, I wasn’t addressing you. I wasn’t disagreeing with you — my comment had nothing to do with you. I was addressing Red, as I indicated. I don’t want your voice either “squashed” or “to be squashed,” and I don’t care whether you stop or continue on. To the extent I’ve read a few of your comments here, I don’t think your opinion is “hate speech.” I have no interest in what you think about late-term abortions, and I certainly could not care less about you and your opinions of who is and who isn’t a “deplorable American” or a “fascist pig.”

  64. One final thought on Sarah Palin before I go to bed. Isn’t it interesting that Palin did not QUIETLY have her attorneys call CBS and threaten a slander suit? Isn’t it interesting that Palin’s handlers did not call Letterman’s people and QUIETLY request an apology? Isn’t it interesting that Palin would not go to every extent possible to keep Willow from even knowing the joke had been made?

    No, Palin will let no opportunity to stay in the spotlight go untapped. Regardless of Letterman’s inappropriateness, I still get the sneaking suspicion Palin is an opportunist who used this insult against her daughter to score public political points rather than keeping things on the down-low and saving her daughter further embarrassment. She is either an opportunist or very dumb. Both are possibilities.

    By the way, I don’t recall if it was Rabbit or Tex who pointed this out … but you’re right. Letterman’s apology was no apology at all. He should have either apologized sincerely or let it be. My guess is he was real rankled at Palin’s spokesperson calling him a pedophile. The whole thing is ugly all the way around and frankly, not made better by Palin’s very public reaction to it.

  65. Am I the only one who sees a difference between saying “I think what Dr. Tiller does is immoral” and saying “Tiller, baby killer”?

    Folks, I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again … words friggin matter! We’ve got a homeland security report based on chatter heard by our law enforcement officials that says we are in prime nutjob season for various reasons (some of which I stated in my post). We can choose to use language that incites these nutjobs or we can choose not to.

    I find it fascinating that Rabbit etal are in here fighting for their freedom of speech but seem to have the common sense to see that Letterman’s exercise of his freedom of speech went over the line. Is it only over the line when a conservative gets slandered? Tiller was not, in the eyes of many, a baby killer because in the eyes of many a baby is what you get when a full term human being emerges from the womb. To call Tiller a baby killer is to be incendiary. Plain and simple. Did O’Reilly kill Tiller? Of course not. But should we not exercise some caution in how we contribute to the social climate in which we live?

    I can’t believe that someone in this thread justified O’Reilly as an entertainer and in the same breath condemns David Letterman … who unlike O’Reilly, does not pretend to present a journalistic viewpoint.

  66. BTW can anyone back up Rabbit’s claim that infants “dream”? While dreaming occurs during REM sleep, an aspect of dreaming as we all conceive it is having an actual “film” play in your head while you are asleep. Since an infant has almost zero cognitive ability to construct a “dream”, I take issue with the notion that infants dream. (Tex … you’re the med school student here, what say you?)

    (By the way, my daughter is five years old and only recently has been able to recall her dreams. Purely anecdotal but there you are.)

  67. Letterman has every right to make jokes about little girls. As I do to boycott his wack show and call him out as spineless.

    I’m also not making the declaration that his opinion is a threat to national security and, for the common good, should be muted.

    I think his joke sucked and I don’t like it when little girls get picked on in a sexual way.

    Let the free market squash his medium. Boycott his ass.

    Has O’Reilly ever ripped on a little girl that way? Or even a 16 year old, now 18, who was impregnated?

    So my opinion is incendiary? Where does that leave me? In this case, it leaves those with the power, with current law and authority on their side, with a hand over my mouth.

    You’re cool with that?

    I truly believe what that doctor does is murder of the worst kind.

    I in no way endorse killing abortion doctors. I responded to his death the same way I do when I learn a crack dealer is offed. My heart goes out to his family and the trampled rule of law.

    Your request for me to keep probably my most passionate of views silent, due to trumped up security concerns, is fascist.

    Burning of the Reichstag style, fascist.

    No American should ever request that of another American.

    Rutherford, I will say it again, in many cases, I believe it to be murder. What would you do if you were me?

  68. I’m not sure I completely disagree with your statement about Palin using evidence of yet another constant vile attack in the MSM as a political chip. While it’s naive to think the girl wouldn’t have heard about it, politicians always do that shit. On the other hand, this was a big part of the news cycle before Palin responded.

    That’s why it bugs you. It’s such obvious evidence of raw deal Palin gets.

    Dude, if it happened to me, even in a sort of a microcosm of the 24 news cycle, say my block, I’d be making it known to all that shit aint going to fly.

  69. If I were you I’d express the view (as you have) in a dignified way that does not inflame crazies.

    Are you aware that in the immediate aftermath of Tiller’s death, some news outfit (I don’t recall which) released the addresses of the remaining late term abortionists. This contributes to the public debate?

    But riddle me this Batman (sorry it’s late and I’m getting silly), do you think there was a more discrete way for Sarah Palin to take acton against Letterman’s tastelessness? Sarah will be on the Today show tomorrow morning, once again trotting out her daughter’s violated honor. If I were Willow, I’d be saying “Mom please give it a rest … it’s embarrassing enough as it is!”

  70. Your comment 91 came in as I was writing 92 … so sort of asked and answered. (Although I’d still like you to tell me how you think Willow feels about Mom going on and on about this in public.)

  71. “BTW can anyone back up Rabbit’s claim that infants “dream”? While dreaming occurs during REM sleep”

    I hope so, because Rabbit can’t. I assume REM sleep would be a sort of “ground hog’s day” for a baby in the womb. Same shit, different dream.

    That’s not the point, though. Killing a human with REM sleep is murder to me.

    Deep down. Way down. I think you might agree with me, Rutherford. It will one day take the courage to investigate the matter like I did. Trust me, when you do, it won’t be easy. it’s as revolting as studying the Holocaust.

    I did not arrive at my pro-life stance through religion.
    I did by reasoning and my sense perceptions. Watch an abortion. Study the development of a fetus. As I said before, I dare you.

  72. Dude, it was already in the public. There is only one way to defend someone’s honor, that is in front of motherfuckers.

  73. Why is it dignified when I do it? Tiller the Baby Killer. I believe that. it’s only “dignified” to you because I am a powerless nobody in terms of ringin’ my opinion out to the masses.

  74. But I can see why you like the Curator. He’s got many of your same traits. The first is that he conveniently avoids answering questions that he has no answer…as he has yet to address mine. That’s why I called him Rutherford lite.

    Tex,

    When did you ask me a question? The only question I see was from Rabbit.

    Alfie

    Does you really believe teenage girls succeed in practicing abstinence? If Bristol is any indication then what are the chances Willow follows in her big sisters footsteps?

    What is wrong with you dude?

    There is nothing wrong dude, just being a realist. If Willow finds her own hockey playing high school dropout I hope she practices safe sex and tells her guy to put a hat on that soldier before they start screwing. Hell I bet the hypocrite Palin parents would give him the Trojans as a prerequisite before dating their daughter.

    Or do you really think abstinence is the answer?

  75. This whole abstinence debate tires me.

    There are many, many female teenagers who practice abstinence. In fact, it’s kind of in vogue with the whole chastity ring thing.

    As for the guys, they practice abstinence not by choice.

    Anyways, the way I would teach it would be:

    Don’t have sex. But if you do, where a rubber.

    Your right, as a child grows into adult, the abstinence thing becomes more unikely. The danger of dropping it wholesale is the wrong message that would give to 12 to 14 year olds. They’re too stupid to practice safe sex.

  76. Its amazing that Dodger has more animosity towards Palin than Obama. Palin isnt driving this nation to the ground. Like its her fault she takes her daughter to a game and someone call her daughter a whore on national TV.

    Shame on you Dodger

  77. “…or at least more animosity towards Palin then Letterman.”

    Tell me about it. I thought Bush Derangement Syndrome was bad but the hatred towards Palin is mind boggling.

  78. Rabbit, I think your sex advice is right on target. Best not to, but if you MUST, be safe about it.

    Question: and I know this is none of my business, but would you (or your wife) allow your young daughter to go on the pill?

  79. I’m not sure I completely disagree with your statement about Palin using evidence of yet another constant vile attack in the MSM as a political chip. While it’s naive to think the girl wouldn’t have heard about it, politicians always do that shit.

    Regarding Letterman:
    Comedians do that shit.

  80. “I don’t hate Palin … I strongly disrespect her.”

    Why Dodger? Its not like she is nationalizing private businesses, giving miranda rights to terrorists, throwing out cases of voter intimidation, cutting the military while giving tax payer dollars to voter fraud groups or ramming national healthcare down our throats when Medicare and Medicade are already broke.

    I’ll be waiting for your dodge 🙂

  81. “but would you (or your wife) allow your young daughter to go on the pill?”

    Hell No!!!!!!!!!!

    If I thought my “young” daughter was having sex I would not let her out of my sight!!!!

    And if that didn’t work, I’d put my speed pump 12 gage in the dude’s face.

    I’m not even kidding about that either.

  82. Rabbit please tell me why pro-life folks think that pro-choice folks LIKE abortions? In one of your comments you said that if I ever saw an abortion or understood the stages of fetal development I’d change my mind.

    I’ve never seen an abortion or the byproduct of one. I do know very well the stages of fetal development. I do know that in the third tri-mester the fetus looks a lot like a baby, But plain and simple, until that birth happens, fetus and mother are ONE. They are one living organism and in my book, the mother with the advice of her doctor, family and spiritual advisor gets to figure out what to do with what is growing inside her.

    Read this from The Atlantic and then tell me how cut and dried this is:

    While I’ve always considered myself a pro-life conservative, I do admit to having mixed feelings about abortion. I’ve been following your series on late-term abortion for the past several days, and I thought I’d pass on our story.

    About 5 years ago, after a lot of effort, my wife got pregnant with our second child. We did the regular genetic screening (I can’t recall the name of the test, but it was just a simple blood test). It came back positive for Down’s Syndrome, but only at a slightly higher risk. Our OB/Gyn said the odds for someone my wife’s age (27) to have a Down’s baby were about 1 in 10,000. The positive test result put the odds closer to 1 in 150. He recommended we go to a doctor who specialized in high-risk pregnancies to confirm there was no problem. She was 5 months along at the time.

    During the additional testing, we had an ultrasound done with an amazingly high-tech machine. During the scan we kept asking the tech if she saw anything, but she kept telling us she wasn’t legally allowed to say one way or the other. We sat quietly until the end of the test, at which point the tech turned to us and said, “Well, I’m going to be honest with you, because it’s the only way I know how to be. I see some problems with the head.”

    I could hear my wife’s breathing quicken, and my hands started to shake uncontrollably. The doctor came in and said he saw holoprosencephaly, which, as we learned, essentially means that the brain did not divide into two hemispheres. In fact, although we were 19 weeks along, the brain had stopped developing at 11 weeks.

    He recommended a second scan with a different doctor. That doctor verified what the first doctor said, but his diagnosis was even worse. Not only had the brain stopped developing, but our daughter had a malformed heart, her bones were horribly misshapen, and her face consisted of just a hole where her nose should be. (He showed us a picture of her hand; around the middle of the fingers, the bones turned to the side at almost a 90 degree angle.) The doctor maintained that even if she were born alive, she would immediately die because she wouldn’t have the brain function to work her lungs. “Birth defects don’t get any more serious than this,” he said.

    All three doctors involved recommended abortion. It didn’t take us long to agree. All I could think about was trying to tell my wife, “You need to carry this baby another 3 months, and, assuming she doesn’t die in the womb and put your life in danger, you can deliver a horribly deformed child that will die immediately.” Even though my wife’s health was not in immediate danger, the psychological damage of this (for both of us) would have been devastating.

    We went ahead with the abortion. It was a two day procedure, and truly the most horrible days of our lives. I have no delusions about what we did, and to this day I’m aware that we chose to abort a baby we tried so hard to have. At the same time, I thank God every day that we live in a country where we could do it.

    I don’t believe in abortion for fetuses that will be born alive, even with severe disabilities. I am a firm believer where there is life there is hope. But this is a case of a fetus facing certain death either in the womb or immediately after birth. What do you do then? Would you really interfere with this woman’s ability to make a choice, no matter how agonizing it might be?

  83. Librarian,

    There is nothing wrong dude, just being a realist. If Willow finds her own hockey playing high school dropout I hope she practices safe sex and tells her guy to put a hat on that soldier before they start screwing. Hell I bet the hypocrite Palin parents would give him the Trojans as a prerequisite before dating their daughter.

    I couldn’t figured out why stiffs like you were so upset that Dr. Jorge the Butcher got greased last week, because you generally don’t give a damn about much besides you. Then it occurred to me.

    You got to find another outlet and Wichita was so convenient.

  84. “I do know that in the third tri-mester the fetus looks a lot like a baby, But plain and simple, until that birth happens, fetus and mother are ONE. They are one living organism and in my book, the mother with the advice of her doctor, family and spiritual advisor gets to figure out what to do with what is growing inside her.”

    My God, that had to be the most disgusting thing I have ever seen you post.

  85. Dr. Rutherford,

    I do know that in the third tri-mester the fetus looks a lot like a baby, But plain and simple, until that birth happens, fetus and mother are ONE. They are one living organism and in my book…

    You’re clueless – it looks like a baby by the end of the 1st trimester as every organ formed. In addition, they are not one living organism but a baby with a completely unique DNA.

    In fact “R”, in half the births they aren’t even the same sex chromosome. Ever heard of the Y chromosome? tsk tsk…

  86. I have found that most pro-life people are exactly that…clueless. It’s weird, because many of them are parents. You would think they would have an understanding about what goes on in their wife’s tummy.

    How funny, in Rutherford’s comment on how he “knows” what a fetus is, he accidentally illuminates utter and sheer ignorance.

  87. DR,

    I know. How many people come up to their pregnant friend and say “When is your fetus due”? “Ohh, I can feel the fetus kick” “Have you picked a name for the fetus yet”?

  88. Dr. Rutherford,

    On second thought, I better address something, or some lefty know-it-all will come in here and say, “HEY, HEY Tex is wrong!”

    Since we are based off the female template, in around the 12th week, male hormones begin to differentiate the sex organs. Everything else has a phenotype (observed) of complete formation. Obviously everything continues to mature and grow, but everything is then in place (minus the above). The lungs continue their develop for a short time after birth.

    Wanted to be specific for the pedantic libs…

    It’s infanticide no matter how you swing it. The fact you don’t believe that doesn’t change the truth.

  89. Dr. Tex, you’ve been on sabbatical from med school way too long. Get back to the books.

    Fetus: In humans, the unborn young from the end of the eighth week after conception to the moment of birth, as distinguished from the earlier embryo.

    So don’t be an ass. An infant is a born human being. A fetus is what lives inside the uterus.

    I didn’t know I was being quizzed on the exact stage when a developing life resembles a baby. I didn’t say the third trimester was the first time in pregnancy that the developing life resembles a baby. I was focusing on the third trimester because that is the whole controversy concerning Tiller and Rabbit implied I didn’t know how baby-like the fetus is in the third trimester.

    Don’t give me DNA lectures. You know full well that the baby lives off of the mother’s circulatory system. That is why pregnant women have to be careful what they ingest during pregnancy. When I said they are ONE, what I meant was that the mother has a life inside her intimately CONNECTED to her own biology.

    And please don’t tell me that because we say in the vernacular “how is your baby doing?” that literally means there is an infant inside the mother. We don’t say fetus for pretty much the same reason we don’t say regurgitate … we say vomit. We don’t speak to each other in official jargon. Especially where pregnancy is concerned, we have an understandable romance with the process and calling a fetus a fetus sounds way too clinical. But sorry dude …. it’s a fetus, not an infant.

    Elric, there is nothing at all disgusting about what I said.

    Rabbit, you’re trying to have it both ways. You make generalizations about pro-choice people (btw, you said pro-life but I knew what you meant) but then tell me that the specific example I gave you is justifiable abortion. Sorry dude, that makes you pro-choice.

    And Tex, I am clueless about one thing … why in hell did you call Tiller “Jorge”? Does he have an Hispanic background or were you just being randomly cute?

  90. God as I read back on some of the comments of Tex and Elric concerning the word “fetus” I have to laugh. Do you know what yahoo’s you two guys sound like? It’s one thing for Elric, but Tex you ought to be ashamed of yourself. “Infanticide” …. pfffft.

    This is what burns me up about the whole topic is the sanctimonious stance taken. We ALL think life is precious. I wish every baby could come to term and be born into a happy home with a happy healthy mommy and daddy. But this ain’t Disneyland folks. There are too many damn variables at play for you guys to get up on your haunches and declare what a woman can and cannot do in the most dire of circumstances.

    It would be kinda nice to have a couple of women chime in on this thread … pro-life or pro-choice since I think it’s hilarious that a bunch of people with penises are busy opining on what a woman is supposed to decide in this difficult situation.

  91. I think it’s hilarious that a bunch of people with penises are busy opining…

    By the way, I could’ve said dicks but I chose to use the official jargon.

  92. And Tex, since you inserted Rabbit’s kid-to-be into the equation let me make something very clear. The fact that Rabbit’s wife is carrying a fetus, doesn’t make the event any less emotional. Because I know it is a fetus and not an infant does not mean that I don’t have an emotional attachment because I respect Rabbit and want him to be happy and have the best possible outcome.

    Interestingly, I would be more likely to ask Rabbit “how’s your wife doing?” as opposed to “how’s the baby doing?” but maybe that’s just me. In any case, I’m delighted to hear that Mrs. Rabbit is coming along fine and the baby (ok, I said baby) is kicking up a storm! 🙂

  93. 1. A woman and a baby in the womb are not one organism. Now, you may “want” it that way. But what you are saying is scientifically false. Tex already pointed out the glaringly obvious medical reasons why. Let me expand on this. A baby can be born at any time in the 3rd trimester and grow up to be a liberal douche just like you. And while the baby in the womb is dependent on the mother, by no means does your example make it non-human. For one, the baby is even more dependent on the actions of the mother AFTER the baby is born. A man can be hooked up to a respirator. Is he no longer a human? Or is the respirator now part of his being? Since when does dependency a characteristic of being human? If both your deductive logic (dependency negates humanness) and your inductive logic (the science) is wrong, you sir, are talk shit.

    2. Don’t hog tie me with your little labels. As a Navy Vet, I can tell you there are times where a life must be taken. I had a Chief once who had to make the decision to dog down the hatch and drown two 19 year olds for the sake of securing the ship. There are medical emergencies where abortion is appropriate. In fact, I haven’t even come to terms with my opinion on rape pregnancies, yet. Why do you feel my argument and Tex’s must be identical? Finding inconstancies between Tex and I is convenient isn’t. Gets you out of actually tackling the sick stuff: abortion.

    3. Most abortions are done for pleasure. Yes, I said for pleasure. Leisure. “I won’t be able to buy the stuff I like if I don’t kill my baby.” “I won’t be able to have the job I wanted.”

    4. When in doubt, err in the side of caution. Granted, there is a fine line when it comes to life. For example, I have no problem with the day after pill (Again, I’m not Tex and Tex isn’t the Rabbit). What if you are wrong and I am right? Genocide. Well, let’s reverse it. You are right and I’m wrong. The worse case scenario. A surplus of babies for desperate families pleading to be able to adopt. I’m not making light of the sacrifice in adoption, nor giving birth, but compared to possible genocide?

    5. You have not investigated this as an enlightened, educated, progressive man should. Why won’t you investigate the baby’s response to an abortion? Look at the tools that are used. Seriously study the development of a baby in the womb. When are they taking place? How many a day? Not with some preconceived “wish” that defies DNA, but with an open mind.

    6. Your “feminism” angle is losing steam every day. Why? Most women are pro-life. And the younger girls? I work with them everyday. They are resoundingly pro-life. Your hairy armpit feminist of the 60’s is a relic of the past.

  94. Tex didn’t insert my baby for the sake of any argument. Dude was sincerely asking me how things are going. And no, I don’t think that the fact you are cool with infanticide means you don’t care about lil’ rabbit. In fact, I smile at the paradox of it all!

  95. by no means does your example make it non-human

    Who said anything about non-human? A human fetus is not an oxymoron. It sure ain’t a monkey fetus.

    Don’t hog tie me with your little labels.

    It’s ok for you to label me but not ok for me to label you? Sadly, this debate is about labels. If you believe that there are circumstances under which a woman would be within rights to choose an abortion, you are, by definition, pro-choice. If you do not, then you are pro-life. I did not invent the labels. They are what they are and you are what you are. Your problem is that you have this preconception that by being pro-choice that makes you an advocate for abortion at the drop of a hat. It doesn’t.

    Most abortions are done for pleasure.

    Now c’mon you know you can’t get away with that without some citations. Where are your sources for such an outrageous statement? You believe that most women get an abortion on a whim and that most doctors perform them on a whim? You cannot be serious.

    You have not investigated this as an enlightened, educated, progressive man should.

    It’s “progressive” to dictate birthing choices to women? In what universe?

    And the younger girls? I work with them everyday. They are resoundingly pro-life.

    Well, of course Rabbit! These are the same starry-eyed girls who want to have a baby so they’ll have someone to love them unconditionally. Have you heard of a recent phenomenon of young girls deliberately getting pregnant (not even caring who the father is) because they want a baby “to love”. They think it’s some romance novel … they don’t get the reality of it. My guess is that most mature women would say “I personally would not get an abortion but I believe women should have the right to choose.” In other words, they are pro-choice even though they could not imagine making the personal decision to abort.

    Finally, of course I know that Tex cares about your kid and was asking a sincere question but his timing was in the midst of a debate and therefore he inserted lil Rabbit into the debate. As much as I call Tex a narrow-minded ass, I know he has a big heart, probably bigger than he would want anyone on this blog to know.

  96. Hey Rabbit, I’d like to probe a double standard for a minute. You said “hell no” to getting your daughter on the pill. Am I correct that you would tell your son “don’t screw, my boy, but if you must, please wrap that rascal.” Or would you say “you are not having sex and if you get some girl pregnant I’ll kick your ass half way across country”.

    Just curious.

    By the way, as you know I have a daughter. When she comes “of age”, I’m locking all the doors and windows and she ain’t going no where till she turns 21. 🙂

  97. Rutherford,

    Fetus: In humans, the unborn young from the end of the eighth week after conception to the moment of birth, as distinguished from the earlier embryo.

    So don’t be an ass. An infant is a born human being. A fetus is what lives inside the uterus.

    Really? You’re kidding me? You forgot the word zygote. Libs love that word. You’re slipping. You’re not going to beat me in this debate “R”. You are a neophyte when it comes to medicine and you know it.

    First, the word fetus is actually derived from a Latin word meaning suckling infant. Don’t believe me, look up the etymology yourself. So in reality, when you terminate a “fetus” Rutherford, you are committing infanticide. That is, unless you don’t believe a suckling infant a living being.

    Now granted, the word fetus is applied to all placental creatures (that would be mammals for your Rutherford :lol:). But the fact is, if you want to play semantics “R”, you’re going to get burned because truth is on my side.

    Second, it’s a proven fact that 95% of abortions are done in the name of birth control. Don’t believe that, you can look that one up too – survey after survey has found this to be both true and consistent. So 19 out of 20 abortions have nothing to do with rape, incest, mommy’s life, deformed infant, etc…that is what you are excusing Rutherford and the ultimate red herring IMHO. Plus, and I know you know this. Being black, you should be most concerned. Abortion preys on minority babies. I know that from supporting mend crisis centers before I quit work and became a poor lad.

    Third, I’m sorry about Jorge. You know in my “narrow assed” ways, how I like to narrow it to being a smart-assed narrow way. If Tiller was Hispanic, it was news to me. Just being a comic on par with David Letterman.

    I think you lost your sense of humor concerning this dumb “debate” about fetus, because you just got your sorry ass kicked when I pointed out the obvious fallacy of your argument. You slipped and I took advantage naturally as you’ve done to me. Ease up old friend – I still think you’re bright (for a lib). 😉

    Of course, the reason I asked Rabbit about his “fetus” was to make fun of you and the fact I actually do think about he and his wife from time to time, though I wouldn’t know them if they were standing beside me. But I would have shot myself in the head if his answer hadn’t been in the affirmative of good news. And I suppose indirectly, I was asking how his wife was doing, because I figure if the baby is fine, she is fine (admitted bad assumption). Rabbit knows I care – even as a stranger. I care about all parents wanting a child, but especially those that struggle and have already suffered a broken heart.

    —————————–

    I’ll leave you this left handed compliment, though this one should probably be written off the board. Though I think you incredibly wrong about what you said here concerning the abortion debate, at least for a lefty on this particular issue, you do appear to have reservations. I know it required of you to treat abortion as a sacrament to keep up the facade of leftydom, but I do sense that it troubles you. And that is a very large reason why I continue to correspond with you and slap you upside the head mostly in jest, because there are times where you and I come close to a meeting of the minds about certain issues where there is normally no room for changing minds. Especially when you let your guard down (I think, though that is still TBD).

    I honestly do think Rutherford that most people calling themselves liberal are the dregs. A lot of what I’ve said about progressive politics is honestly true for me. I fully admit I have little use for all but a few of them and to my fault, that is my weakness. But I’m way beyond “praying” for them because I think most hurt this country dearly. However, somebody like Wickle is right about certain things and probably why I stone him when he says as much. I know I too will be held accountable for being a punk. Wickle’s right as I choke to type that.

    However, with you I have believed shortly after we started our dialogue, there does seem to be something about you different than the typical brain dead MSNBC viewer. I’m pretty sure we would like each other for very short periods of time if we ever get the chance to meet.

    From the heart…

  98. “So don’t be an ass. An infant is a born human being. A fetus is what lives inside the uterus.”

    So your daughter wasnt a human being until she popped out of the womb?

  99. Rutheford,

    I’m off to play another tournament, I’ll make this quick

    Yeah…It would bug me more if I had a daughter having sex then a son.

    I don’t what to say.I’m not perfect nor a role model citizen. I see the double standard. At least I’m honest about it.

  100. Rutherford,

    By the way, as you know I have a daughter. When she comes “of age”, I’m locking all the doors and windows and she ain’t going no where till she turns 21.

    Trust me on this one. Even when your daughter turns 21, you’ll want to lock the doors and windows. My beauty who is soon to turn 20, found herself a beau about 3 days into college. She had never had a serious one until then. Been going on for two years.

    Though she’s a great kid and I wouldn’t trade her for anyone, I’m not naive either. And knowing she’s a head turner and exactly what is going through the bohunk’s minds when they’re checking her out including her love, and being that she’s now “of age”, there isn’t a day goes by that I’m not wondering about things like birth control knowing fully well what I was doing at her age.

    Dad beat her senseless for 18 years about blowing a bright future in one slip, and trying to convince her it does happen. Figure I did everything I could…

    Tell you what “R” and Rabbit. There comes a day for a father when you do realize it would have been much more simple to have had sons.

  101. Wow. The weird thing about President Cool is

    1. He really hasn’t HAD any dialog with Iran and North Korea. I always wondered what he meant about “talking”.
    2. The election in Iran is Lose-Lose
    A. Either the election was legit and the masses dismissed Obama’s warm and fuzzy speech in its entirety.
    B. Or the election is rigged, more proof of the impossibility sitting on the other side with a tyrannical disrupter of world peace and actually thinking we would get any where.

    _________________________________________________

    Having a daughter would make me grey by the time I she was 14.

    Most people who knew me hoped I would have a daughter. They thought me raising a daughter would be the ultimate price for being the Bastard Rabbit that I am.

  102. DR,

    Actually it was a blessing that the dwarf won. If the so called “moderate”, it might have compelled Israel not to attack its nuke sites since a “moderate” is the president. But we know its the mullahs that call the shots anyway. This will give Israel the green light to go now.

  103. A nice article about the shooter for Dodger to dodge

    Two things: First, the author gets off easy by saying it’s wrong to blame conservatives for von Brunn’s act. Sure it is …. but it is right to blame the climate created by conservatives for von Brunn’s act.

    Second, from the cited article:

    With the listless Republican Party lacking in any vocal leadership, it will probably succeed.

    Here he is absolutely right. The Republican party is unable to defend itself because there isn’t a brainy guy in the bunch to launch any defense.

  104. New thuggery …

    Real shame the President doesn’t know about you Elric. If we taxed you just for the amount of gas you produce, we’d save all these dairy farmers. 🙂

  105. Having a daughter would make me grey by the time she was 14.

    Rabbit, my sister is expecting probably around the time your wife is (October). It’s her second kid and she was sincerely hoping the second one would be, like the first one, a boy. Just got the ultra sound and she got her wish.

    She had NO interest in dealing with all the stress of raising a girl. So I had to chuckle when I read your comment, We had our child rather late so I asked my wife just yesterday, “Please tell me you’ll be in menopause when this girl reaches puberty! I cannot deal with two women going through PMS simultaneously under the same roof.” 🙂

  106. …. but it is right to blame the climate created by conservatives for von Brunn’s act.

    What climate is that? Are you blaming conservatives for these “88 years of hate”? On what charges? Vonn Brunn isn’t even a conservative!

    The Republican party is unable to defend itself because there isn’t a brainy guy in the bunch to launch any defense.

    I would think you could say something smarter than that, Rutherford. I don’t go off saying that Liberals are too stupid to understand that they are promoting a neo-socialism (mostly because some do realise it). The reason Republicans have a hard time defending their party is that they (1) don’t have a universal leader. The heart of the party are people like Limbaugh, Hannity and Beck (not necessarily in that order); then we have moderates who don’t like unpopular positions or clear definitions of right and wrong. (2) The Republican party also has trouble defending themself because if a Democratic attack actually has truth in it, Republicans accept it and try to deal with the person who committed the wrong. This leaves a big target on the party for a long time. When the Democrats have scandals, the media reports less about it (especially political affiliation), Republicans don’t attack as much, and many Dems don’t care. Republicans have to be perfect, or they are hypocrites, Democrats don’t have to worry about that.

  107. “R”,

    Here he is absolutely right. The Republican party is unable to defend itself because there isn’t a brainy guy in the bunch to launch any defense.

    Who’s the brain of the Democratic party, now that you mention it? Joe Biden? Maxine Watters? Nazi Pelosi? Harry Reid? Noel Panetta? Charlie “Ain’t paying my taxes” Rangel? Hotrod Conyers and his extortionist wife? Ray “Chocolate City” Nagin?

    Don’t tell me Caesar Obama – I’m convinced he’s a used car salesman.

  108. I just learned I helped create the climate that caused a long time neo-nazi man almost 3 times my age to shoot a dude.

  109. “Real shame the President doesn’t know about you Elric. If we taxed you just for the amount of gas you produce, we’d save all these dairy farmers. :-)”

    A shame he cant tax you every time you dodge Dodger. He could then actually pay for this socialized medicine monstrosity he is going to ram down our throats.

  110. “Don’t tell me Caesar Obama – I’m convinced he’s a used car salesman.”
    Just listen to him off teleprompter, its painful to listen to.

  111. but it is right to blame the climate created by conservatives for von Brunn’s act.

    I would have to say Rutherford meant to say right-wing conservatives and not paint all conservatives with too broad a brush. But I don’t want to put words into his mouth.

  112. Obama’s proposed foreign policy during the election was an utter joke. A joke that, despite the blind eye of Rutherford, is apparent to all. You can’t have fertile “discussion” with rogue states like Iran and North Korea.

    Luckily, Obama’s foreign policy was so jack- ass foolhardy, that, for all practical purposes, it has been impossible to implement. Iran is so fricking weird it is even impossible to sit at the other end of table and appease them. Obama’s policy, despite “silent nothings” in the form of feel good speeches, has been identical with Bush when it comes to Iran and North Korea.

    Here is where I break with some of the conservatives. In the short term, I’m talking the past few days, Obama is playing this correct. Now is NOT the time to get mixed up in the Iranian election. Back off, let these events play out. Any involvement on our part, including an overly vocal White House, will come back to bite us like the coup in ’53.

    Back off. Shut up.

    That being said, we are seeing the results of the tough Bush policy towards Iran. I hope Obama takes heed of the fact that a cozier relationship with a dangerous regime like the one in Iran is unfair to the millions of decent Iranians as it is the Israelis who have to deal with the reality of nuclear obliteration.

  113. Elric66,

    Nope. I see you and others’ point though. However, I think he has said enough.

    Now what will piss me off is if the Iranian demonstrations/revolution? is violently crushed and Obama tries to start a dialog with this evil state as they laugh beyond his back, all the while becoming a nuclear power.

    If that happens, there will be absolute chaos in the Middle East. Israel will launch one of the biggest air strikes in human history. The gulf will be laden with sunken oil ships and water mines. Gas will be 8 dollars a gallon, sparking our own hyper inflation, thanks to Nero/Caligula like spending of Obama.

  114. “Nope. I see you and others’ point though. However, I think he has said enough.”

    I rather the thug in chief say nothing. Its bad enough hearing him stumble through a complete sentence but when he does, its either a lie or treacherous. I dont know what big deal is. The guy who they say won was the founder of Hezbollah, hardly a moderate anyway.

  115. I heard a dude on TV say the people are using the other guy for a demonstration calling for a liberal, free Iran. It’s not so much in support of that guy as it is for freedom.

    Then again, it’s always hard to tell with outside Iranians. Many of them are still monarchists.

  116. Curator I never said anything about abstinence but I do believe people can be individuals and live lives different than their peers. Your comment smacks of applying a bona fide guarantee that any Palin with a vagina is doomed to teen pregnancy, that’s just ignorant.
    R,Palin has unfortunately taken a page from Rahm and Baracks playbook. No crisis/emergency /opp wasted. She has grabbed the values spotlight for her own good and left her daughter more scarred than the space toothed dimwit from Ball State ever did.

  117. I would have to say Rutherford meant to say right-wing conservatives

    Of course, Curator is right. I certainly did not mean moderate conservatives since moderate conservatives aren’t saying the wing-nut sorts of things that might provoke a crackpot like von Brunn.

    Interestingly, when I take a swipe at the lack of intellect evidenced by the Republican party, a lot of you folks take it personally. I’ve seen Rabbit say stuff 100 times smarter than anything coming out of John Boehner’s mouth. Tex, on a good day, makes it clear by his articulate expression just what a dope Sarah Palin is by comparison.

    So guys, don’t take it personally when I dump on the empty space between Republican’s ears. I’m not talking about YOU. I’m talking about the sad-ass elected officials who are rudderless and clueless at the present time. So clueless that a bloated radio jockey is now the de facto leader of the party backed up by his two fellow stooges (also not currently elected to squat), Cheney and Gingrich.

  118. Palin has unfortunately taken a page from Rahm and Baracks playbook. No crisis/emergency /opp wasted. She has grabbed the values spotlight for her own good and left her daughter more scarred than the space toothed dimwit from Ball State ever did.

    Ooooo Alfie, that came SO close to expressing my opinion about the whole thing. I only differ on the Rahm playbook part of it. I don’t think either Rahm or Barack would sacrifice their own daughter for political expediency. But I must repeat in bold your words which capture my feelings better than I have so far expressed them:
    She has grabbed the values spotlight for her own good and left her daughter more scarred than the space toothed dimwit from Ball State ever did.

    That deserves a friggin BRAVO!!!

    P.S. Never one to know when to quit while she’s ahead, the Queen of dumb-assery takes David Letterman’s most recent and most direct apology and goes off on some nonsense about our military.

    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE LET PALIN BE OBAMA’S OPPONENT IN 2012!!!! But no, I shall never get to see that fantasy come true. Even the sad Republican party has enough brains to keep her away from the Presidential or even Vice-Presidential candidacy. Whenever any of them are asked if she will be the party’s nominee in 2012 they all say she will be “among many strong candidates”. LOL … yeah right.

  119. Oh and here is the thug in chiefs deception on national health care.

    Elric, other than your juvenile insistence on the “thug in chief” moniker, you won’t get a whole lot of argument from me on this one. I am ambivalent about Obama’s health care plans. There is no doubt that the current approach does not work. Insurance companies dictate what care we get, doctors don’t. Doctor’s waiting rooms are filled with more pharma salespeople than patients. It has become a disgusting and perverted system. The jury is out for me on whether or not Obama’s plans will solve things.

  120. I don’t know, look at how quick Obama dropped his self proclaimed mentor and spiritual adviser when the goin’ got tough.

    I think it’s weird that

    1. Your still not over this.

    2. You have a daughter and seem to care much more about what Palin says then what Dave says. It took me actually linking that trite, patronizing 1st fake apology for you to even mention Dave’s reaction. The way he talks about the girl’s father wanted me to shoot the TV like Elvis.

    3. Does it bug you that bad that the whole world sees the double standard when it comes to Palin and her family?

    4. Read this slowly. On mainstream TV, in front of millions, Dave called her daughter a whore, going as far as name dropping the guy she would have sex with at the ballpark. Dude, you think Palin handled this poorly? Do you have any idea what the Rabbit would do if that was his daughter? The governor cashed in a political chip. Trust me, the Rabbit’s way would be much more distasteful to you.

  121. No, actually Rabbit, your way would not be more distasteful. You would have tracked Letterman down and punched his front teeth out. You would NOT have paraded your daughter’s “honor” in front of TV cameras to advance your progress towards a 2012 presidential nomination.

    You are a man of honor. Sarah is a political whore and a dumb one at that.

  122. BTW, Letterman issued this week an unequivocal unambiguous public apology with no wisecracks, no humor. All Palin needed to say was “apology accepted.” Instead she goes off on some unrelated rant about our military defending free speech. She’s either brain-dead or a nutjob or both.

    Please Rabbit. Stop defending her. The future of your party is at stake and you need to pick your allies wisely dude. I’m telling you, Sarah ain’t it.

  123. “R”,

    Sarah ain’t going to be the candidate…and she does need to get back to governing, as she handles the blatantly unfair criticism in the worst way, telling me she is not ready for prime time. To go on the Matt Lauer show is the dumbest thing she has done to date. She would have scored more points if she had unloaded on FOX, scorned the useless shills on national networks, and been done with the MSM. I guess she is a glutton for punishment.

    But neither is she the dolt you make her out. She’s become the easy target for the scumbags on the left.

    —————————-

    As far as the future of the party, looks to me like the best thing the Republicans can do is to simply shut up. The Dims are doing such a poor job from the economy, to health care, to national security, it would be best to let them self-destruct. Obama is quickly becoming an unmitigated disaster with a cabinet that can’t shoot straight.

    Naturally, the dumb asses on the right don’t have the good sense to keep their mouths shut and accept the inevitable defeat of their opponents. In many ways, they’ve become much like the Dims in snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, helping to explain why Tex is quickly becoming a Libertarian.

    I’m almost as unimpressed with what represents the Republican party as I am the pinkos of your party. True conservatives like me have for the most part disowned them, recognizing we won’t fix things through our government.

  124. “The jury is out for me on whether or not Obama’s plans will solve things.”

    How is it going to solve anything when you have insurance companies you can always change your insurance company. Once the government has full control over your health care, you are stuck which is what they want. Control over your well being.

  125. Tex, concede gay marriage to the states and your in! Libertarian Party is growing every day. We need articulate people like you to speak for the rest of us pot smokers. (Actually Rabbit doesn’t smoke pot anymore. Just kind of grew out of it…more proof it should be legal)

  126. R, Palin isn’t a blip on my radar. I’m not sure why she causes you to go nuts for a week straight. Or for that matter Dave Letterman to make top 10 quips about her. Who effing cares about Sara Palin right now? I never even gave a damn to find out her response to Letterman to be honest with you. It’s like the left is obsessed with her. I’ve never seen anything like it, really.

    What scares me more is the lack of jokes about Obama, to be honest. CBS has moved the damn evening news set INTO the white house.

    Seriously, thank God for Fox news. What if it didn’t exist?

  127. Yeah….there are brief moments when he gives me a chill down my spine. For him to be complaining about the media is down right disturbing. Even a jihadist attack on American soil was down played for him. Comedians won’t even bust his balls.

  128. DR,

    There is a lot about this guy that is disturbing. And not just him. His fellow marxists in congress and his media lap dogs worshiping him. Thuggy kills a fly in an interview and they gush like he is Dirty Harry, Micheal Jordan and Mr Migayi. And when I say disturbing, I really mean it.

  129. Sadly, a good fly kill is the kind of stuff that even impresses the Rabbit…

    All Caesar would have to do is open up Circus Maximus and the Rabbit fades into the mass of plebeians.

  130. Then the whinny thug in chief wouldnt well whine

    I always thought I spoke fluent typo but I’ll be damned if I can decipher this. It’s some nice alliteration but beyond that I don’t know what language you’re speaking there Elric! 🙂

  131. Fox News is indeed indispensable. It provides catharsis for conservatives and much needed laughs for liberals. I’d say that is definitely fair and balanced. 🙂

  132. Tex is quickly becoming a Libertarian.

    You know, I could almost go there with you. Ron Paul was by far my favorite Repub nominee last year. A lot of what he said resonated with me, especially on foreign policy. I was troubled by rumors of his being a bigot but I can’t swear that was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

    I’d have to do more homework on Libertarian’s social policy positions before I could sign up.

  133. You a libertarian?????? ha ha ha ha.

    You are the farthest thing from a hands off government I can think of.

    Ron Paul resonates with you? What a joke. If that was the case, you’d be going nuts in here every day about the bailouts, the stimulus package, the expanded power of the Fed.

  134. R,
    You would also be angery about Obama expanding the Federal Reserve.

    Your probably just caught up in this “social unrest”.

  135. Ron Paul resonates with you? What a joke. If that was the case, you’d be going nuts in here every day about the bailouts, the stimulus package, the expanded power of the Fed.

    Well, let me attack this from two different angles. First, I said Ron Paul resonated with me particularly on foreign policy. None of what you threw at me, Rabbit, relates to foreign policy. What I particularly like about Ron Paul’s world view is that we should bring practically ALL our troops home from all over the world. I loved that idea.

    From another angle, please find anywhere on this blog that I defended the bailouts, particularly the auto bailouts. I’ve been against them from day one and I still am.

  136. “Fox News is indeed indispensable. It provides catharsis for conservatives and much needed laughs for liberals. I’d say that is definitely fair and balanced. :-)”

    Well Hillary said it was the fairest network towards her during the campaign. Whats that say about the other networks?

What's on your mind?

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s