The American Jihad

The irony is so thick you could cut it with a knife. Thanks to Gentlemen’s Quarterly (GQ), of all things, we are learning that our progress reports on our battle against Islamic extremists were peppered with our own brand of “let’s go on a crusade” rhetoric.

The reports prepared for Donald Rumsfeld, then Defense Secretary, to share with the President included a cover page with an inspirational war-time picture and an accompanying biblical quote. Ah, but not just any biblical quote. Here are a few samples:

“Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand” — Ephesians 6:13

“Commit to the LORD whatever you do and your plans will succeed” — Proverbs 16:3

“It is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men.” 1 Peter 2:15 (this one appeared above a photo of Saddam Hussein)

And perhaps the most egregious, this one accompanied by a photo of a US tank rolling into Iraq:
“Open the gates that the righteous nation may enter, The nation that keeps faith” — Isaiah 26:2

If “God” and the “lord” were replaced in the above quotes by “Allah” you could not tell the difference between us and our enemy. One aspect of liberal spin on this is that Rumsfeld or his minions were trying to manipulate Bush’s attitude toward the war by playing on his piousness. Even though I do feel that Bush was not up to the job and was mislead by bad counsel repeatedly during his administration I don’t buy this “Manchurian Candidate” (“Why don’t you pass the time by playing a little solitaire?”) theory of religious messages playing some subliminal role to keep the President in a war he would otherwise have abandoned. Too far fetched for me.

I don’t really care why the messages appeared on the security briefings. It’s just really scary that they were there. You would think that an administration that needed to distance itself from the appearance of fighting a religious war would keep all defense documents concerning Iraq completely void of any religious implications. Instead, these documents make it look like we were sending our Christian soldiers to conquer the Muslims.  One commentator said today that this is worse then the Abu Ghraib photos and I tend to agree. These memos betrayed one of our most enduring traditions, a strict separation between church and state. They make us look like supreme hypocrites.

Every time I think we can’t hear anything more bizarre from the Bush years, something new arises. With the debate over torture and now these new revelations, every day we look more and more like the enemy we were fighting.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

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126 thoughts on “The American Jihad

  1. Like it or not many of the men and women in our armed forces are not the secular humanist intellectual type. They’re good people who believe the weekends are for church and football not NYT crosswords. That honor and duty and right and wrong are more black and white than shades of gray. Therefore you get the marketing you do. Whether that is good or bad…mmm ??? I don’t have an answer for you right now.

  2. Alfie I could agree with your position if this was indeed a marketing campaign aimed at the public or even our men in uniform. It would be no less odious but at least your point of appealing to the average Joe’s religious nature would have legs.

    However, these were classified reports that may speak to what was on the minds of our governmental leaders. It frames the war as a religious war, which is what it should never have been.

    The next thing I’m waiting to see is an internal memo suggesting that if we just convert Al Quada to Christianity, the violence would stop.

    It’s just that scary.

  3. The next thing I’m waiting to see is an internal memo suggesting that if we just convert Al Quada to Christianity, the violence would stop.

    It’s just that scary.

    Yeah a peaceful al-qaeda would be scary. But unlike islam, there is no doctrine in Christianity to force people to convert or kill them if they leave Christianity.

  4. I agree that that stuff should have been kept off the progress reports. That would never fly in any report I have ever seen while in the service.

    Only a moron or an opportunist would equate some inspirational passages from the Bible on reports with jihadist culture (beheading videos, spanking women for publicly eating ice cream, legal rape, smashing massive jet liners into buildings, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.)

    But, the world is full of opportunists and Morons.

  5. Ah, these religious bigots like Rutherford. Remember this beauty below from 2004 as you think about the sincerity of the scoffers you are dealing with here.

    The American Civil Liberties Union is demanding the removal of a tiny cross that is among historic symbols on Los Angeles County’s official seal.

    The cross was incorporated into the seal to represent the area’s settlement by Spanish missionaries who, in the 1700s, founded two of California’s famous missions in what is now Los Angeles County.

    This irreligious zealotry of the continual mantra of separation and corresponding infinite worthless complaints don’t have anything to do with historical precedent, law, or even what’s best for America. This has to do with Rutherford’s intense hatred of Christianity and undying love of “progressive” politics.

    I’m convinced Rutherford and Co. would feed us all to the lions given the chance, while promoting head lopper Khalid Sheik Mohammad as a tortured victim.

    Completely deluded.

  6. Yeah, you noticed these “progressives” will have threads like this but silent on Europes rapid fall to islam or how the left here treat muslims as special citizens.

    Case in point. If Ms California was a muslim, you think her comment on gay marriage would have met with the same venom? Hell no, they would applauded her statement.

  7. Elric, terrorism usually arises from political grievances, often legitimate ones. Unlike you, I do not believe Islam per se is at the heart of Bin Laden’s beef with the Western world.

    There is no justifying what terrorists do but to say a change in their religion would change everything is incredibly arrogant.

  8. Only a moron or an opportunist would equate some inspirational passages …

    Are you kidding me? Do you have your head so far up your own USA-centric butthole that you don’t know one man’s “inspiration” is another man’s holy war?

    What do you think Mo Atta was doing seconds before he crashed into the tower? He was praying to Allah. He and all his cohorts drew inspiration from their religion to believe the murders they were about to commit were righteous. Tell me how this is any different from internal memos on the progress of the war that draw inspiration from our religion in defense of killing countless Iraqis, who happen to be Muslim I might add.

    To my mind, there are only two legitimate invocations of religion when it comes to war. The first, is when we send our men and women in harms way and we pray for their safe return. The second is when they get their heads blown off and we pray that their surviving loved ones can find some comfort in their heroism. That’s it … full stop … end of story. We don’t have a friggin theocracy here. We don’t say that God is on our side helping us kill the enemy.

    Abraham Lincoln put it very nicely when asked whether God was on the side of the Union soldiers. He replied, “Sir, my concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God’s side, for God is always right”.

    When you said the scripture had no place on the memos, you were right and you should have quit while you were ahead.

  9. When it comes to this one, Tex and Elric, I’m not sure which one of you is nuttier.

    Tex, this ain’t a theocracy dude. I don’t care whether or not it was a bunch of Christians who ransacked the country and drove the indigenous population to ruin. Our Constitution clearly establishes that there be no official religion in this country, that no belief system be promoted by the government over any other belief system. Our wise founding fathers understood religious oppression as committed by government, and they took great care to avoid that happening in this country.

    The briefings in question concern the conduct of a war by our government against an enemy. It is an official government document that should be devoid of religious sentiment. The fact that our enemy just so happened to be Muslim makes the matter all the more sensitive. Or maybe I misunderstand you. Maybe you think the Iraq war WAS about Christians defeating evil Muslims? Would you care to elaborate? The presence of scripture on these briefings was a dumb ass move.

    Elric, Miss California’s answer to Perez Hilton made her look like a homophobe. Personally, I think she had every right to answer the question the way she did. I also think Perez shouldn’t have asked the question since I don’t think gay tolerance should be a litmus test for a soft core porn pageant. But bottom line, when you exercise your “first amendment rights”, you have to expect that others will exercise theirs and there will be blow back.

    Your assessment that Miss California’s only problem was that she was Christian is so out there I can’t believe you said it. If she had been a Muslim, Perez would have still called her a b*tch and a c**t. What’s even funnier about your assertion is that a Muslim girl probably doesn’t stand a snowball’s chance in hell of becoming Miss California in the first place … that’s just how tolerant and supportive this country is of Muslims.

    Tex summed up your two assessments much more succinctly than I ever could have … completely deluded.

  10. Tex, this ain’t a theocracy dude. I don’t care whether or not it was a bunch of Christians who ransacked the country and drove the indigenous population to ruin.

    Oh my GAWD! Look out, Rutherford’s on his faux racism and incessant Christian bashing bent again.

    “R”, I heard statistic this evening. Did you know that 69% of the reported crime in NYC is perpetrated by blacks? They’re obviously ransacking the indigenous population – all of it.

    Elric, Miss California’s answer to Perez Hilton made her look like a homophobe.

    Exactly how in your infinite fairness Rutherford? You ought to be asking yourself, “why would Mullah Obama answer the same way?” Are you telling me Jimmy Obama is a homophobe “R”? Yerrrrrrrrghhhhhhh!

    Maybe you think the Iraq war WAS about Christians defeating evil Muslims? Would you care to elaborate?

    Maybe you think Khalid Sheik Mohammad was just misunderstood and really just a confused young man who deserves our sympathy?

    Tex summed up your two assessments much more succinctly than I ever could have … completely deluded.

    As Dirty Harry once said, “Yeah… you’re a legend in your own mind.”

  11. “R”,

    One thing I’ve noticed every day since Imam Obama took the wheel. George Bush is beginning to look brighter every day, being Imam seems to have to one up George’s biggest mistakes, according to the libbies. Fiscal policy, Iraq, GITMO, Afghanistan {ad nauseum}…

    Here, spin this one for us Rutherford as Imam Obama leads us closer to the promised land:

    The Congressional Budget Office figures, released Friday, predict Obama’s budget will produce $9.3 trillion worth of red ink over 2010-2019. That’s $2.3 trillion worse than the White House predicted in its budget.

  12. Tex, we ain’t talking budget here. If you were in the defense department and you were preparing briefings for the President of the United States about the progress of a war against people who happen to be Muslim, would you put Christian scripture on the cover page of those briefings? Yes or no?

    Your answer may tell me just how fortunate we are that you are in med school and not anywhere near the White House.

  13. It’s not a baseball game, either. But this is kind of how I see this. (Not meaning any disrespect by simplifying war into a game)

    A pitcher gets ready to start a game. As the first batter approaches the plate, the pitcher makes the sign of the cross on himself as he asks the Lord to give him strength to have a good game. As the batter is stepping into the batter’s box, he makes the sign of the cross on himself as he asks the Lord to give him strength to have a good game. And often after they have done well, they visibly thank the Lord for the strength he has graced them with. You see it all the time.

    Baseball is not a religious sport. These men are not playing baseball for God. But they are using their faith in God to try and gain an advantage on their opponent. And when they do well, it reinforces the belief that God has given them an advantage. At least for that day.

    That’s how I see this. The war isn’t about religion. But that doesn’t mean some of our leaders aren’t going to use their faith to try and gain an advantage over the enemy.

    That’s not to say I agree with that tactic. But I don’t think it’s anything to get worked up over. Mainly because these breifings were not meant for public consumption.

    When you start seeing that stuff on our recruitment posters, then it’s time to be afraid.

  14. 😆

    Just giving you a taste of your own medicine. Everybody is the racist that is white and not liberal, all blacks the victim, Obama held to a far lower standard than Bush, the hypocrisy, double standards and outright lies by the Democratic leadership never noted here, etc…

    To answer your question, I think I would have provided two Bible verses: How about these provided almost 4,000 years ago from that book of “myths” Rutherford?

    Genesis 16:11-12

    11 The angel of the LORD also said to her:
    “You are now with child
    and you will have a son.
    You shall name him Ishmael,
    for the LORD has heard of your misery.

    12 He will be a wild donkey of a man;
    his hand will be against everyone
    and everyone’s hand against him,
    and he will live in hostility
    toward all his brothers.”

    And since your history of antiquity a little rusty, and your biblical history and knowledge woeful, guess which great religion descended from Ishmael Big “R”?

    Not a bad prediction for a book of myths, huh Rutherford? 😉

  15. Hmmm speaking of the Defense Department, why does your president feel the need to cut the defense department but feels ACORN deserves billions of tax payer money?

    “Tex, we ain’t talking budget here. If you were in the defense department and you were preparing briefings for the President of the United States about the progress of a war against people who happen to be Muslim, would you put Christian scripture on the cover page of those briefings? Yes or no?”

    I would have also put certain islamic scriptures as well. 🙂

    “Elric, Miss California’s answer to Perez Hilton made her look like a homophobe.”

    Really? Opposing gay marriage makes you a “homophobe”? You libs love labels. So does Hilton’s repsonse make him a “Christianphobe” or being gay a “womanphobe”?

    “If she had been a Muslim, Perez would have still called her a b*tch and a c**t.”

    LOL You are a nut. if you believe that.

    “What’s even funnier about your assertion is that a Muslim girl probably doesn’t stand a snowball’s chance in hell of becoming Miss California in the first place”

    Where the hell did you get that from my statement?

  16. Rutherford conveniently forgets Obama opposes gay marriage too. I guess by his definition Obama is a “homophobe”. But Obama is special, the rules dont apply to him.

  17. Where the hell did you get that from my statement?

    Sorry, I left out the all-important comma. The statement should have read:

    “What’s even funnier about your assertion, is that a Muslim girl probably doesn’t stand a snowball’s chance in hell of becoming Miss California in the first place”

    In other words, you’ve presented a ridiculous hypothetical that Miss California could ever have been Muslim in the first place.

  18. “In other words, you’ve presented a ridiculous hypothetical that Miss California could ever have been Muslim in the first place.”

    Well there is the potential of her being honor killed for competing so you may have a point. 🙂

  19. Ouch. FBI disses Obama’s Gitmo plans (or lack of). He gets 6 votes in the senate???? LOL.

    tick, tick, tick, tick, tick…..

  20. “Every time I think we can’t hear anything more bizarre from the Bush years, something new arises. With the debate over torture and now these new revelations, every day we look more and more like the enemy we were fighting.”

    How so?

  21. There is no justifying what terrorists do but to say a change in their religion would change everything is incredibly arrogant.

    Maybe so, but it’s true.

  22. Homophobe was shorthand for a non gay-sympathizer. I really wouldn’t assume Miss CA was a homophobe per se but she clearly doesn’t understand the notion of equal rights for gays and many gay-sympathizers probably would suspect her of being a homophobe.

    And yes, Obama is just as guilty. Civil unions understandably don’t cut it for the gay community. They want the symbolic expression of love that marriage represents. Civil unions are no substitute for that.

  23. He gets 6 votes in the senate????

    I am almost sick to my stomach over the way Dem senators abandoned Obama on this.

    I’m going to re-read my piece called “The Guantanamo Myth” to see if I want to write a part 2. The “reasons” for not closing Gitmo are just so much BS.

    What’s even worse is that even Obama has created a “fifth” classification of detainee that looks suspiciously like a detainee of the Bush era. I know this overjoys you, Tex and my other conservative buddies. I’m becoming disheartened personally.

  24. I know. You must be so bummed. Sworn enemies of the state, captured in the field of battle, who have made a vow to kill as many Americans possible, might not get to quench their thirst for blood. Sucks. I can’t believe Obama is letting you down like that. Innocent until proven guilty. How could Obama forget the very core he ran on?

    Seriously, how are you dealing with this? Either your entire world view is silly-false, or the man you invested so much emotion and time glorying as a contrast to Bush has completely duped you.

    Personally, the Dead Rabbit has come to see this Gitmo thing for exactly what it is: a superficial argument over location and semantics. This is classic, classic I say, attempt of a Leftist Dem President creating a mountain over a mole hill for nothing more then political correctness.

    Will it be worth winning over a couple Euro backpackers to move Gitmo and essentially put it somewhere else?

    Is a smoother tasting piece of Berkly tofu worth the risk of potentially radicalizing American convicts?

    Stink Beards WILL be locked up forever without any semblance of a real trial. You do understand that, don’t you.

    Obama, why have you forsaken us?

    Rutherford, the Rabbit is offering to rock you to sleep, burp you and read any night time fable of your choice. Barney Frank has said he will even provide the pacifier. Your just too young to confront this mean old world.

  25. “I am almost sick to my stomach over the way Dem senators abandoned Obama on this.”

    LOL

    “I’m becoming disheartened personally.”

    Wait til you kids and grandkids have to foot the bill for his insane spending and taxes.

  26. Thanks for the “sympathy” Rabbit.

    I’ve been too busy past couple of days to write a followup to The Guantanamo Myth.

    Most of what I wrote in back in January still holds. Folks get their panties in an uproar over 14% of released terrorists returning to their old ways when the normal criminal recidivism rate is no doubt MUCH higher than that.

    I wouldn’t argue with your assessment that this Gitmo issue is becoming a matter of location and semantics. What I am wrestling with for my sequel to The Guantanamo Myth is that the only thing that has changed since January is Obama’s increasing resemblance to George Bush on this issue. That’s where I need to put my thoughts in order.

  27. 14% of released terrorists go back to killing soldiers. It’s obvious none of your loved ones are in a combat zone. Not to mention it took a dozen motherfuckers to pull 9/11 off.

  28. and one more important thing, the “normal” recidivism rate deals with fellow Americans.

  29. “On MTP Newt says: “I don’t want to pick a fight with Dick Cheney but…” What, afraid he’ll blow your face off?”

    Funny how you libs get all in a frenzy over that accidental shooting but dont give a damn that Ted Kennedy left a girl to drown. Cheney was man enough to take the guy to the hospital, Teddy went to a friends to party and sober up.

  30. You won’t find the Rabbit giving modern Islam much slack. But the article slights the civil war in Sri Lanka as “Islamic”. That’s really not the case: More of Buddhists and Muslim allies vs Hindu. In fact, I find the whole Tamil conflict to be plain old ethnic.

  31. So now a soldier killed by a non-repentant terrorist is more tragic than a civilian killed by a non-repentant paroled murderer? Tell that to the civilian’s loved ones.

  32. Rutherford,

    Been a reader for a couple months now, and appreciate your blog. One question I have is when will your conservative right wing commenters begin to throw Gen David Petraeus under the bus now that he has all but endorsed President Obama’s plan to close Gitmo, I expect any moment for Elric66 or Tex Taylor to call the General a traitor or a Islamist-terrorist-apologizer who thinks they have been misunderstood. Seems all their supposed “respect” for military service flies out the window when a person dares to disagree with them on any issue.

  33. Still cant come to grips between religious members that violate their religious teachings and those who embrace them. Can you? I guess you cant because if you do, then you would have to admit the vast differences between good religions like Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism and Hinduism and bad religions like islam and Satanism.

  34. While I’m not going to fall into the trap over who grieves more, a family with a loved one killed by an American ex-con or a foreign terrorist, your logic is very faulty and actually surprising.

    We are not at war with fellow Americans. While I don’t want to sound like I’m being weak on crime, I see a massive difference between the black guy locked up and the sworn enemy of the state. I believe Americans are still Americans after they pay their debt to society. If they decide to forgo the freedom here, and do something horrible, I am horrified. However, all of this takes place under rule of law.

    Illegal and foreign combatants, many who have sworn to destroy my country and were captured on a battlefield, are NOT Americans and should not be treated as much. They’re not even a lawful enemy.

    For you to say that you are ok with 14% killing soldiers, might possibly be the most unpatriotic thing I have ever heard some say. 2 of my brothers have served over there. I can’t imagine what I would do if one of Rutherford’s terrorists had killed one of them.

    And, to take another approach to your horrible logic, 14% of released cons do NOT kill people or go to war with America.

    You’re a shitty American, dude. I swear to God.

  35. Yup. Gen David Petraeus doesn’t care if we change the name and location of the same Gitmo. Hasn’t anyone told you that you can’t make chicken salad out of chicken shit?

  36. Elric, on your last two comments:

    I’ve been deliberately ignoring the Obama GPA question because of how incredibly juvenile it is. But here’s a deal for you since you persist. If you post here the college GPA of every President since Dwight David Eisenhower (with a credible citation), I will either find you Obama’s GPA or concede that it can’t be found.

    As for your GatewayPundit post, what utter nonsense. To see all of the conservative crackpots on that blog pile on in a feeding frenzy at the notion that “Republican dealerships” were targeted for closing was too hilarious to be disturbing. Then again, maybe I should be disturbed that some folks believe this trash. Well, I guess it’s akin to the supermarket papers with headlines like “Farrah Fawcett to be cured by Martian longevity vaccine”. 🙂

  37. And, to take another approach to your horrible logic, 14% of released cons do NOT kill people or go to war with America.

    If you’d put your emotions in check you’d see how absurd your argument is Rabbit. 14% of those released from Gitmo returned to “terrorist activity”. They did not necessarily kill anyone either. Terrorist activity (much like “crime”) covers a lot of ground.

  38. Curator,

    The exact quote was..

    But doing that in a responsible manner, I think, sends an important message to the world, as does the commitment of the United States to observe the Geneva Convention when it comes to the treatment of detainees.

    I believe the key word is responsible closing. And so far, there apparently has been no plan established as to what to do with your choir boys. Nobody apparently knows exactly what to do with them – including your dear leader who seems to have jumped the gun without a plan.

    Now my question to the obvious leftist shill.

    What excuse are you going to provide if by chance some jihadist just happens to park a nuke in a major city, say courtesy of Kim Jong-Il, and takes out about a million of your fellow citizens?

    You going to bash Bush? Blame GITMO? Post pictures of Abu Ghraib for old times sake? Question our interrogation techniques?

    Don’t make the mistake that my highest regard for the military means that I respect every individual. A stupid observation on your behalf, if so.

  39. 14% of those released from Gitmo returned to “terrorist activity”. They did not necessarily kill anyone either. Terrorist activity (much like “crime”) covers a lot of ground.

    Oh, well now that’s a horse of a different color. They didn’t kill anybody! 😆

    I’ve seen “weaseled” answers before, but that one will stick in memory forever.

    Rabbit, do you ever wonder if Rutherford is actually not the “wizard” behind the curtain?

  40. You know why you wont tell me? Because his records are sealed. No one knows. You know the most “transparent” guy sealed his records. Guess he isnt all that bright. But I knew that with his speeches anyway.

    Knew you would deny it. Obama can do no wrong in your eyes. Guys a thug, just admit it. Like when he broke contracts so he could hand over GM to the UAW.

  41. What excuse are you going to provide if by chance some jihadist just happens to park a nuke in a major city, say courtesy of Kim Jong-Il, and takes out about a million of your fellow citizens?

    What does this have to do with GITMO and the support Gen Petraeus is showing? Please stay on topic… I know it must be difficult.

    Don’t be a chicken shit Tex… use the ENTIRE quote.

    “With respect to Guantanamo,” Petraeus added, “I think that the closure in a responsible manner, obviously one that is certainly being worked out now by the Department of Justice — I talked to the Attorney General the other day [and] they have a very intensive effort ongoing to determine, indeed, what to do with the detainees who are left, how to deal with them in a legal way, and if continued incarceration is necessary — again, how to take that forward. But doing that in a responsible manner, I think, sends an important message to the world, as does the commitment of the United States to observe the Geneva Convention when it comes to the treatment of detainees.”

    So it seems Obama and his justice department are busy working on a plan. At least the General seems to think so. So my question still stands. If Gen Petraeus believes we ought to observe the Geneva Convention when it comes to the treatment of detainees, and since this surely doesn’t square with the right-wing conservatives, when exactly does General Petraeus become a traitor in the eyes of the GOP?

    Right-wing anti-Petraeus ranting in 4…3…2…1…

  42. You know why you wont tell me? Because his records are sealed. No one knows. You know the most “transparent” guy sealed his records. Guess he isnt all that bright. But I knew that with his speeches anyway.

    He graduated magna cum laude from Harvard. That puts him in the top ten percent of his class. Although the exact GPA is unreleased … WHO CARES?

    Can you explain why that matters in any way whatsoever?

    Oh, that’s right … You don’t answer questions. Never mind.

    He graduated from Columbia without honors, which puts his GPA below 3.3. This took me about 15 seconds on Google. Do you know how to use Google, Elric? It’s pretty cool; you should try it some time.

  43. Tex, you’re criticizing my comment out of context. My comment was a direct statement against Rabbit’s assertion that 14% of American convicts don’t end up killing people … the implication being that the 14% of released Gitmo’s do. His logic is faulty.

    In fact, while I am at it I can punch even a bigger hole in Rabbit’s logic. Since the recidivism rate in this country is a helluva lot higher than 14%, I’d venture to guess that 14% of recidivists DO end up killing people.

    By the way, if I’m the Wizard, Rabbit is surely the March Hare, at least judging by his skills with logic.

  44. LOL Thanks for the support Wickle. My google only yielded stupid conspiracy web sites so I must have used the wrong search terms.

    You know why it matters to Elric? Because a black man with Obama’s credentials simply seems impossible to Elric. There has got to be some catch. It’s this very attitude that enraged Clarence Thomas … a chip that he carries on his shoulder to this day. Now we see the cycle repeating once again with Sonia Sotomayor, whom right-winger Pat Buchanan has already labeled an affirmative action candidate.

    Wickle’s comment jogged my memory from what I’d heard from Obama’s bio. Obama transferred to Columbia from Occidental College. By his own admission, these were transformative years for him where he was coming to grips with his identity and, quite frankly, growing up. I might venture to guess that had he applied to Harvard Law straight out of Columbia, he might not have gotten in. The interim time spent in community service strengthened his resume. I assume Harvard Law is similar to Harvard College in that they take many factors into consideration for admissions in addition to academic excellence. Quite frankly, while I was an excellent student, I was not valedictorian. Harvard accepted me because they liked the whole package. I’m sure the same was true of Obama’s admission to Harvard Law.

    But Elric, my challenge still stands. Get me the GPA’s of every Pres since Eisenhower.

  45. Obama isnt black Rutherford. An what credentials? Spokesman for the voter fraud group ACORN?

    “whom right-winger Pat Buchanan has already labeled an affirmative action candidate.”

    She is.

    “quite frankly, growing up”

    Like quiting cocaine?

    So whats his GPA?

  46. Curator,

    I wasn’t misleading in the quote, and in fact was the one who first provided the quote. Your addition adds nor subtracts nothing from my statement.

    You in turn, didn’t answer my question because you have no answer. You tell me to stay on topic, yet you can’t answer the very question I posed in return as to why it necessary to use the interrogation techniques you question. If it doesn’t work, tell your messiah to release all the documents as Dick Cheney requested. Then we will measure its worth.

    You’re just another in a long list of WordPress barking seals parroting the leftist talking points thinking in makes you sound wise, but really just another in a long list of cowards who frame their stupidity and recklessness in some phony form of self-righteous monologue.

  47. Wickle,

    I graduated in the top 5% of my class and received no mention of magna cum laude. In fact, it received no mention of cum laude.

    Magna cum laude simply means Obama graduated with highest honors, and is bestowed by the faculty. It is generally based upon class rank or grade point average, but doesn’t have to be, and in fact, can be assigned for a host of other personal characteristics.

    While Obama may have indeed graduated with a high GPA and/or scored high in class, none of us really know. But I do find it ironic that if so, why would Obama and Harvard seal those facts? And unlike you, I do feel that it important to be open because it lends credence to Obama’s honesty.

    My guess would be that the “anointing” of magna cum laude for something other than high ranking in class. I’m guessing the records sealed with approval by the school because there is something there that would prove an embarrassment, or possibly an indication of favoritism.

  48. “But Elric, my challenge still stands. Get me the GPA’s of every Pres since Eisenhower.”

    Dodging as usual. You asserted Obama is smart. So lets see his GPA. I could care less about any other president. We are talking about Obama’s, the most “transparent” president evah.

  49. There is something to be said for the claim that Sotomayor is an Affirmative Action candidate.

    Obama made it more than clear that he wanted a woman. So that right there excludes any man that may have been a better choice. That isn’t to say there are men that would have been a better choice, but it is to say that regardless if there was, they were not concidered.

    As usual, Obama would have been better off if he would have just kept his mouth shut and made his pick. All the hubbub about needing to pick a woman and minority to even out the Court is coming back to him…and his pick.

    Also, her decision on those white firefighters who were refused promotion simply because no black guys scored well enough to be promoted suggests that, not only is she the beneficiary of Affirmative Action, but that she is a proponent of the unconstitutional practice. Granted, there were other judges who agreed with her on that decision. But they aren’t a candidate for the Supreme Court.

  50. 14% of all ex-cons murder somebody? Are you serious? Do you really believe that?

    Most ex-cons are drug addicts, don’t pay child support or drunk drivers. They are not murderers. Shit bags. Ignorant morons. Not murderers.

    14% of Gitmo terrorists (and these are the softer ones deemed safe for release) go back to terrorism. Terrorists only have one goal. To kill people. So yeah, they all go back to killing somebody. Can you tell me what other duties a terrorist has that doesn’t ultimately rest with the goal of murder?

  51. Truman will be a hard one to find out….he’s only a high school grad.

    I find it odd that Obama has sealed those records. Who among us hasn’t had to shown some sort of GPA for a job at a certain point? A reasonable, although not terribly important, request.

    Come on Rutherford, you don’t find it weird that its a secret? Sure, I’m not losing sleep over it, but damn. Why wouldn’t he release it? I mean, who cares?

  52. 14% of those released from Gitmo returned to “terrorist activity”. They did not necessarily kill anyone either. Terrorist activity (much like “crime”) covers a lot of ground.

    R are you looking to split hairs on differences between word choices ? Popular choices being combatant,freedom fighter,or Jihadist.

    Obama isnt black Rutherford

    Ha ! put him in street clothes and have him hail a cab for you. See how long it takes.
    Sotomayor & the AA thing. Seems rooted into her psyche,curious though how it plays out in the uniting govt. scenario. If she’s a vocal jurist the opposing papers will at least be interesting reads.

  53. Why is that Fray? Only a black guy can determine if a statement is racist or not? How very racist of you. Maybe the thug in chief will nominate you for the next Supreme Court seat. 🙂

  54. Ha ! put him in street clothes and have him hail a cab for you. See how long it takes.

    Alfie hit the nail on the head on this one.

    Besides, Elric, have you never heard of the “one drop rule”? In American society, if you have “one drop” of African-American blood, you’re black. Case closed. You can pass if you want but it doesn’t change anything. And as it turns out, Obama’s white mother’s DNA didn’t have a strong enough influence to allow Obama to pass. As Alfie says, Obama cannot hail a cab in NYC.

  55. “In American society, if you have “one drop” of African-American blood, you’re black.”

    Then I claim to be an African-American (I hate that word). Because every living human can trace their genetic roots back to Africa somehow.

    Even Adam and Eve would admit to that if they knew what “Africa” meant.

  56. Tex,

    What excuse are you going to provide if by chance some jihadist just happens to park a nuke in a major city, say courtesy of Kim Jong-Il, and takes out about a million of your fellow citizens?

    So you would rather debate this bullshit hypothetical and who would be to blame if it ever happened?

    BRILLIANT!

    If you forgot my initial question, which was my first post on this blog, it was when will the likes of you and your ilk intend to throw Gen Petraeus under the bus for deciding to speak out for Gitmo’s closure. Publicly disagreeing with a sitting president in support of an ex-VP would have basically ended Petraeus’ career and he could have just avoided any situation where might have been asked to comment, but he didn’t. Republicans over the past couple of years have continually pointed to Petraeus’ success in Iraq and Gates’ leadership at DoD as proof of their party’s superiority at “keeping the country safe.” That both Petraeus and Gates (not to mention Powell) have endorsed Obama’s strategy seems to greatly undermine the GOP’s argument.

    I guess Dick Cheney will have to fire him from the Republican Party.

  57. Then I claim to be an African-American

    Tex, every now and then you say something that makes the absurdity of race so clear. I can’t point to other comments you’ve made (too lazy to dig them up) but every now and then you say something that shows a glimmer of hope that deep inside you know this whole black/white thing is just so much BS.

    The truth is we are ALL related. Putting aside folks like you who have to trace their roots back to Adam in order to find your “blackness”, there are many “white” folks who are really “mutts” (to borrow Obama’s phrase) but would sooner die than admit to it. Kinda sad in this day and age, if you ask me.

  58. So you disagree with the statement? And wouldnt you agree that the statement is indeed racist?

    Well whether or not I agree with it is irrelevant. It is what it is. The one drop rule was “implemented” to enforce racism. So from that perspective, you are absolutely right. It is racist.

  59. “there are many “white” folks who are really “mutts” (to borrow Obama’s phrase) but would sooner die than admit to it.”

    Are there many “black” folk who are “mutts” as well that would sooner die than admit to it?

  60. Elric, you raise an interesting question here. There are some sticky dynamics here about which you might be unfamiliar.

    The short answer to your question is “probably yes.” I would submit that blacks who hide their white relatives do so because they don’t want to be viewed as saying “well, I’m not really as black as other black folks”.

    The whole race thing creates some really screwed up logic. I’ll give you a concrete example. One side of my family is from the West Indies. Growing up, I was always discouraged from saying this because it was the belief (at least between my parents) that West Indians felt they were “better” than other blacks and my parents didn’t want me “putting on airs” or somehow making myself different or better than my fellow blacks.

    I’m not going to defend this. It’s utterly ridiculous. But as my Sneetches theory goes, any group will find some way to divide within itself and discriminate within itself.

    As I said before … and it is NOT a dodge … I don’t defend this stuff. It is what it is. (Perhaps with future generations, this kind of craziness will disappear. I don’t know.)

  61. Red,

    There is something to be said for the claim that Sotomayor is an Affirmative Action candidate.

    … her decision on those white firefighters who were refused promotion simply because no black guys scored well enough to be promoted suggests that, not only is she the beneficiary of Affirmative Action, but that she is a proponent of the unconstitutional practice. Granted, there were other judges who agreed with her on that decision. But they aren’t a candidate for the Supreme Court.

    More than just “other judges” but a whole other court of law. Both the District Court and the Second Circuit seemed to me to have been applying the law in accordance with clear precedents. Isn’t this what judges are supposed to do? The New Haven Fire Department had a legitimate reason for acting as it did because they had to comply with the very same Title VII they were now being sued under.

  62. I dont drink kool aid like the Obamobots. Unlike some I believe the political parties have some core values and principles and if a so called member not only doesnt believe in them but votes for a guy that holds not of those views he is nothing more than a poser.

    As for the whole race thing, its sad. Its sad that your party, not saying every member is but the party in whole plays the race card to the hilt. Just look at Obama’s nominee. She makes racist statements, the media fawns over her being a “Latina and Obama picked her just based on her race. What the hell does her race or gender have to do with basing decisions based on the US Constitution?

  63. Curator, thanks for citing the precedent argument. You’re absolutely on the money. Sotomayor got slammed for “dismissing the white fire fighter’s claim with just a paragraph”. How many words does it take to cite precedent to defend New Haven’s actions? By citing precedent it seems to me she objectively applied the law and in no way let her personal beliefs enter into it.

    The other problem with Pat Buchanan’s statement is that he called her an affirmative action candidate on a par with Harriet Myers. Not only absurd but incredibly insulting. Sotomayor was 2nd in her class at Princeton (suck on that, GPA-obsessed-Elric).

  64. Curator,

    So you would rather debate this bullshit hypothetical and who would be to blame if it ever happened?

    BRILLIANT!

    Your vocabulary and your name don’t jive. You ought to rename yourself Polly.

    Let me see if I can make this simple for our resident librarian. Patreaus is a hero. No doubt he a great man in my book. He is also a politician as you don’t make it to his level without being one. No way he is going to buck the CiC. His first priority is to serve the country and protect his troops. But he is not an interrogator either. He reads what is provided. Therefore, his opinion about interrogation techniques is not the end all. The only way to prove your point is to release the documents containing what we gathered from the head lopper you’re so concerned with in your sanctimony called Khalid Sheik Mohammed. It is the only empirical evidence that matters – everything else in opinion, including Patraeus. That hypothetical you’re too scared to even attempt to answer is exactly why this debate is taking place.

    Powell is an affirmative action quota hire and a moron who hasn’t been right about anything of importance yet. He gets no respect in my book as he’s also a two-bit asshole, fence straddler, amoral, and political coward. Norman Schwartzkopf he is not, and the only reason he made a name for himself. Period.

    You don’t want to answer my “hypothetical” because you don’t want to reveal the fact you’re a liberal hack and self-righteous bullshit artist. That makes you a blowhard in my book.

  65. n addition to her work on the bench, Judge Sotomayor is an adjunct professor at New York University School of Law and a lecturer-in-law at Columbia Law School. She is a member of the American Bar Association, the New York Women’s Bar Association, the Puerto Rican Bar Association, the Hispanic National Bar Association, the Association of Judges of Hispanic Heritage, and the National Council of La Raza. She has received many honors including, most recently, an award from the National Association of Women Lawyers.

    http://www.abanet.org/publiced/hispanic_s.html

    Isnt that nice, she is a member of La Raza. Nahhh she isnt a racists, just a member of a group called “The Race”.

  66. No doubt he a great man in my book. …

    He gets no respect in my book …

    That makes you a blowhard in my book.

    Dag Tex, that is beginning to sound like one huge book! You writing “War and Peace” or something? 😉

    Regarding Colin Powell …. Tex, could you identify any black whom you don’t think is the beneficiary of affirmative action? And please don’t say Clarence Thomas since he replaced Thurgood Marshall …. coincidence? I think not.

  67. Isnt that nice, she is a member of La Raza. Nahhh she isnt a racists, just a member of a group called “The Race”

    Wow, Elric speaks Spanish. I’m impressed.

  68. “Wow, Elric speaks Spanish. I’m impressed.”

    And Rutherford ignores an Obama nominee being a member of a racist group. Shocker……………

  69. Wow what a perfect little box you place people in without knowing jack shit about them. Do you often label people you take offense with as stupid, reckless, liberal, self-righteous bullshit artist, blowhard cowards?

    My my… what a grown up you are. Does this name calling make your e-penis bigger?

    It was the CIA and not the President who rejected Dick Cheney’s request to declassify records because they are the subject of two pending lawsuits… or didn’t you know these things.

    …try the Google.

  70. Does this name calling make your e-penis bigger?

    Curator, even Tex would acknowledge it has been well established that Dead Rabbit has the biggest e-penis in this part of the woods. Don’t worry, stick around the blog long enough and you’ll learn these bits of trivia. 😉

  71. [Tex, could you identify any black whom you don’t think is the beneficiary of affirmative action?]

    Thomas Sowell. I can name a million of them. Just not any Democrats…

  72. Librarian,

    Do you often label people you take offense with as stupid, reckless, liberal, self-righteous bullshit artist, blowhard cowards?

    I take offense at stupidity. You are stupid. You don’t belong in a box – you belong in a hole. For instance:

    It was the CIA and not the President who rejected Dick Cheney’s request to declassify records because they are the subject of two pending lawsuits… or didn’t you know these things.

    I didn’t say Obama sealed the records. I told you to ask you messiah to unseal them. Both the Congress and the Executive Branch oversee the Central Intelligence Agency’s activities. Therefore, they can do anything they damn well please.

    Once again, tell your messiah to release the records you sniveling blowhard.

  73. Curator, even Tex would acknowledge it has been well established that Dead Rabbit has the biggest e-penis in this part of the woods.

    Now, that’s not necessarily true. You’ve heard of the gifted “tooled” black men?

    Well, Tex willingly admits that Rabbit has the biggest white e-penis. I just always assumed Rutheford had all the rest of us “beat” with the email gift. Right Rutherford? 😉

  74. oops… 😆 Serves me right for calling Curator to get back in his hole.

    Typo. I told you to ask you the messiah to unseal them.

  75. Tex,

    So Dick Cheney who insisted upon classifying everything and ordered ALL departmental agencies to deny ALL FOIA requests out of hand, all on the grounds that to do anything less would result in terrorists attacking and killing Americans — NOW wants the Obama administration to release secret CIA documents solely in order to cover his ass? If the former vice president was right the first time, is he now willing to sacrifice the lives of millions of Americans simply to protect his and Bush’s legacy? Hypocrisy AHOY!!!

    President Obama should release not just those, but all other documents relating to torture, but not to Dick Cheney per se, but to a well-empowered, non-partisan, open “9/11”-type commission set up specifically to look into this.

    Wouldn’t you agree Tex?

  76. Nice spin Librarian. Let’s review. First, the documents should have remained sealed – all of them. Now that your messiah and company have chosen to cherry pick the facts like good libs to score political points, it is time that all the documents be released as Dick Cheney requested. There is absolutely no hypocrisy in that at all. Your bluff has been called.

    We don’t need some open “9/11” commission, because that was anything but open. It became a blame assessment meeting with the gawd awful lefty hack like Richard Ben-Veniste explaining to us what the documents meant, and running for cover when they indicted the uselessness called the Clinton cabinet – which has now been resurrected in the Obama Cabinet.

    I’m perfectly willing for our feckless Congress and President to literally post every one of the memos on the web. Then you and I can discuss “exactly” what they mean and how effective the techniques were. We will include a discussion the type of Geneva “soldier” we are dealing with that you apparently are so concerned about (Daniel Pearl was unavailable for comment)

    Let’s take the politics out of it and let the American public decide. And I’m betting big bucks hacks like you won’t like what you find when you’re busted for lying about the ineffectiveness of waterboarding and GITMO.

    But you keep up with the sanctimonious chatter. You come in here insulting and I’ll make sure you get a response in return.

  77. I simply asked a question about when you will start calling General Petraeus a traitor, now that he thinks closing GITMO is a good idea.

    Too many intellectual Republicans think that GITMO, what was done there and what it represents are not good for the US. They must not be REAL Americans huh?

    You aren’t going to accuse Petraeus of being a coward and surrender monkey?

  78. Curator: “More than just “other judges” but a whole other court of law. Both the District Court and the Second Circuit seemed to me to have been applying the law in accordance with clear precedents. Isn’t this what judges are supposed to do?

    I’ll have to be honest, and admit that my knowledge of the law and how judges apply precedents is limited pretty much to Court TV and Law and Order episodes.

    But with that said, are judges actually bound by precedent? Sure, precedents arm lawyers with ammo to argue points with, and certainly judges do apply them.

    But do they have to?

    Of course, a judge who believes that judges make policy from the bench (which Sotomayor is on record as believing) would certainly see precedents as binding.

  79. Librarian,

    Too many intellectual Republicans think that GITMO, what was done there and what it represents are not good for the US. They must not be REAL Americans huh?

    What makes you think I think some of these Republicans not any bigger rubes than you are?

    You aren’t going to accuse Petraeus of being a coward and surrender monkey?

    Nah, I just disagree with him about GITMO, as do many other intellects of which Cheney is one. Patraeus is a great man obviously – doesn’t mean I think he walks on water. Doesn’t mean I couldn’t be wrong either. I just want to see what you do with these innocent choir boys down in Cuba. Why don’t you adopt one?

    I do think people like you bear strong resemblance to Tokyo Rose while you’re sermonizing.

  80. I just want to see what you do with these innocent choir boys down in Cuba.

    I hope they get charged with a crime, convicted in a court of law, incarcerated in a federal prison and introduced to a groups of 6’6″ Bubba’s who all have American flags tattooded across their chest.

    I’m sure Bubba would love to get his shiv wet.

  81. I’m sure Bubba would love to get his shiv wet.

    There’s hope for you yet…but I think you naive to want to convict them in a court of law. How long do you think before Mohammad runs into the federal court room with a bomb strapped to his chest yelling Allah Akbar? These are not Nazis – even the Nazis were more sane than these lunatics. They had enough sense to be afraid.

    Really what this has done for folks like me (because of folks like you) is to tell our military next time to simply waste them on the battlefield and be done with them.

  82. I’m a believer in the Rule of Law and Due Process. Two principles that are a foundation and serve as a bedrock of our American principles. I really would not have a problem with GITMO if our government only used it as a temporary facility to house detainees before they were then put before our court system. As it is now it is nothing more than an American Gulag.

    Can you actually be proud that we, in the name of “Keeping America Safe”, had individuals imprisoned, tortured, and sometimes killed (which the Pentagon has reported 108 since 2002) without legal justification and often without formal charges ever being brought. The Army has identified 27 cases of suspected or confirmed homicides and at least seven cases in which detainees were tortured or beaten to death.

    “waste them on the battlefield and be done with them.”

    I get the feeling you want to promote the killing of all Muslims.

    I remember reading that 75 years ago we lynched people just for being black.

  83. “I get the feeling you want to promote the killing of all Muslims.”

    You would say that because you cant win the argument so you try labeling your opponent as advocating genocide. He clearly meant wasting the jihadists because the far left are trying to force the military to treat this war as a police action and a soldier doesnt want to 2nd guess himself because he might get sued by the very jihadist trying to kill him or other innocent people.

  84. I get the feeling you want to promote the killing of all Muslims.

    You’ve hit upon the crux of the problem. Elric (and I would say Tex to a slightly lesser degree) see Islam as an evil religion. Elric has likened it to Satanism.

    Therefore the only logical solution for these guys is to exterminate all Muslims. Would they ever SAY that? Of course not. They don’t want to sound like Nazi’s. So I would propose to Elric and his ilk that if they are not willing to go out on a limb and call for extermination, then the only other alternative is tolerance, cooperation and cohabitation.

  85. “then the only other alternative is tolerance, cooperation and cohabitation.”

    LOL islamic teachings are the opposite. As we can see in every islamic majority nation. But keep on your multicultural blinders to that very fact.

    BTW you find Obama’s GPA yet?

  86. “One commentator said today that this is worse then the Abu Ghraib photos and I tend to agree.”

    So why were they released to the public? Well we know. To undermine the war and our national security. Just like Obama pulling money from our missile defense shield as NK is testing nukes. The guy is a menace. He can give billions to ACORN but doesnt view our security as a priority. Why does your thug in chief have such a screwed up view?

  87. Curator,

    As it is now it is nothing more than an American Gulag.

    Is that the American gulag where each prisoner gained an average of 18lbs. six months after being put there? So let’s see. If we stick them in a maximum security prison, that will be far more humane?

    Curator, you’re nothing but another in a long list of American-hatin’ shills from the left, who see America as imperialistic, evil and a harbinger of everything bad. You’re the proverbial dog that bites the hand that feeds them.

    I see America (and Israel) as the only hope. That is the difference between you and me.

  88. Rutherford,

    You’ve hit upon the crux of the problem. Elric (and I would say Tex to a slightly lesser degree) see Islam as an evil religion. Elric has likened it to Satanism.

    Actually, I find your charges somewhat unfounded, being that to the best of my memory, I really haven’t been a huge critic of Islam on this blog – other than stating the obvious when somebody is yelling Allahu Akbar while sawing a journalist’s head off.

    So that we can set the record straight, I don’t believe most Muslims evil people as we would all define it. Like every race, creed and color, I’ve met both good ones and bad ones. However, there is no doubt the religion itself evil as the results speak for themselves. My Master said as much.

    While Rutherford can’t bring himself to admit this, those countries where people wish to live (where they willingly choose to immigrate) are populated with a large number of Christians, and in fact upon their foundations a huge majority of the populace would have called themselves Christian. About the only place on earth where this rule doesn’t hold is Israel, and then it becomes obvious that Christian and Jew hold to a common basic tenet.

    I’m willing to compare my faith against any other concerning good works, if the need arises. And you will lose the bet.

  89. before they were then put before our court system.

    Curator,
    Terrorists are not just criminals, or POW’s, or even lawful combatants. Civil courts don’t have authority over them.

    The Army has identified 27 cases of suspected or confirmed homicides and at least seven cases in which detainees were tortured or beaten to death.

    And those 27 deaths were criminal acts that were not ordered or supported by our military and I’m sure any of the perpetrators captured are in a whole lot of trouble.

    Can you actually be proud that we, in the name of “Keeping America Safe”, had individuals imprisoned, tortured, and sometimes killed (which the Pentagon has reported 108 since 2002) without legal justification and often without formal charges ever being brought.

    So 108 suspected terrorists were executed without formal charges or a trial? Was it a military tribunal? Were these ordered executions? Give me a link please (to a respectable site).

    I really would not have a problem with GITMO if our government only used it as a temporary facility to house detainees before they were then put before our court system.

    It is temporary. That is why we refer to captured terrorists as detainees. We do the same thing with POW’s, hold them until the war is over. THe problem is, we are fighting what could be a never-ending war. And we have released some of the terrorists before.

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