Alien Thought

From the desk of the Rigorist:

Something my host Rutherford said here haunts me.

“If you or anyone else can help me understand this, I’d be appreciative”, referring to middle class conservatives identifying with fat cat financial predators.

It haunts me.

Not only because I yearn for connection, as does everyone, but because the most serious threat to America, Islam, is alien to liberals in precisely the same way as conservative thought. They aid and abet the Islamic agenda by acting as an infidel, just as Mohammad ( P B & J ) described. Mohammad knew how to crush such people. Islamic tactics were made and honed to subdue those who believe that people are good.

As much fun as it would be to pick on President Obama – and he is as fat, slow, clumsy, and ridiculous a target as one could hope for – his fate is sealed. Eventually the pork addicted Republicans, who have proved themselves to be as completely destitute of integrity as the Liberals have always said, will roll for the President in Act III of  ‘Obama, a Shakespearean tragedy’.

How, though, can one draw a Liberal into such a paradigm shift? Rand used fiction to entice the undecided looking for entertainment. Rush uses disparagement to goad Liberals to substantively engage the reasoning beneath his  monologues.

Hmmm.

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30 thoughts on “Alien Thought

  1. I’ll have more to say about this later when I have more time. I am puzzled by the connection between Islamic extremism and our current economic crisis which prompted my original question.

    Further, is it not a specious argument to suggest that Rush Limbaugh seeks to influence liberals? Rush talks to his base, who in turn masturbate him to climax on a regular basis. I don’t think Rush has any interest at all in appealing to the sensibilities or logic of liberals.

  2. Rush is pompous and arrogant on purpose, it’s entertaining. He does draw a ( small? ) audience of liberals who listen to argue in their own minds against him, not altogether different from those who watch ‘Jeopardy’ to be smarter than the contestants.

    To the extent he convinces anyone of anything, he does so by testimony and reason – radio as a medium allows nothing else.

    Nonetheless, Rush uses disparagement to goad (some) Liberals (into listening, who wish) to substantively engage the reasoning beneath (underpinning) his monologues (in the privacy of their own minds).

    I am not connecting Islamic extremism to our current economic crisis. I am connecting Islam and Islamic thought to Christian/Capitalist thought. It is not my purpose to argue for or against Islam or Atheism or Christianity or Capitalism here, but to say that the same issues which obscure Liberal understanding of Christianity/Capitalism also obscure Islam from Liberals. There is a difference in their foundations and axioms so raw that anyone is stunned and dizzy in making the shift.

    It is our Greek heritage in western thought to dissect and classify, e.g legal from political from moral from economic. In Islam that akin to sorting CDs into stacks of round, flat, and shiny on one side. It’s misleading if not worthless. How disoriented are you in the attempt to consider life without analysis or synthesis?

  3. No fan of Rush myself but I lmao when I read this

    I don’t think Rush has any interest at all in appealing to the sensibilities or logic of liberals.

    As if that’s all liberals have going for them. He tweaks you guys just to see the rise out of the majority of liberals not the smattering listening to him. How else do you explain how the libs were all about Rush like they were all reading from the same set of talking points ? Oh wait a minute they were and it emanated from 1600 Penn.

  4. I suspect there are as many closet liberals listening to Rush Limbaugh as there Conservatives listening. I say this because it is always liberals that are quoting something Limbaugh said. I’m conservative, most of friends are conservative, and it is a rare day when any of listen to Limbaugh or any other pundit on the radio.

    I hadn’t listened to Rush since around 9/11 until one day, out of curiosity partially stroked by my liberal buddy Rutherford’s rants, I tuned in for a long ride. And I must say, I don’t care what your party affiliation, Rush Limbaugh is a master entertainer and will get a rise from 99% of listeners, left or right.

    I agree with Alfie. Limbaugh is an entertainer first and foremost. Scary part for me is I find myself agreeing with what I was hearing…

    —————————————

    A tad off the subject,

    Can any liberal here of sound mind tell me why they think an Obama budget of $3.6 trillion, which represents about 25% of our entire GDP/GNP, is a sound fiscal policy?

    Can any liberal here tell me how this is different in principle than those home owners, apparently always wishing for the best, suddenly found that a $50K income doesn’t pay for a $500K house when anything, and I mean anything, goes south?

  5. What? No suggestions on drawing a Liberal into thinking besides fiction and ridicule?

    Well. I had to ask.

  6. You’ll have to explain that cryptic remark. Is this a reference to the shooting of four police officers? Perp was black I assume. So what? And why in God’s name would Martin Luther King who advocated passive resistance be at all proud of this?

    If you’re referring to something else, please explain.

  7. There is confusion among Alfie, Rigorist and Tex. I never said that Rush does not get a rise out of liberals. On the contrary, he makes some liberals outright apoplectic. What I said was Riush does not view it as his mission to convert liberals. To the extent that he can piss them off and get higher ratings, he’s happy. I don’t think his agenda is to goad liberals into the “right” way of thinking.

    Now back to this whole Islam/Capitalist/Liberal thing. Rigorist, am I now correctly inferring that you think that liberals are somehow anti-capitalist? I don’t see that at all. Liberals are as interested in free enterprise as anyone else. We just don’t believe that the deck has to be stacked so heavily against the little guy. I’ll be writing a piece (probably tomorrow) on rich people.

    Do I also understand you to say, that based on our following the teachings of the Greeks, that we are able to analyze things with greater granularity than a follower of Islam can? Is that where your going with the CD (round, shiny, etc.) example? I would counter that there are Muslims every bit as subtle in their analysis as any western person.

    From comments you have made elsewhere on the blog, I can tell that you have studied Islam more than the average dude. However in your case, I think your studies have boxed you into a limiting view rather than a liberating one.

  8. Addressing Islam at this point would be getting way ahead of myself.

    Regarding the CD analogy, Islam is a “complete system” as Muslims call it. Where we have demarcations between law and morality and religion, there is none in Islam. What the English speaking Muslim does is put his message into the most advantageous like-form. For example, when a Muslim complains about an “illegal” war, it has nothing to do with the arbitrary laws of men or nations, but Allah’s law, which holds that any war against Islam is legal.

    You and I would respond that his point is religious not legal but we are sorting the CDs into round verses flat. To the Muslim there is no difference except in how he explains phrases it to us. Law is religion is etiquette is cleanliness is politics. Personal hygiene not prescribed by law is a sin.

    Let me get back to this in order?

    Regarding evidence of the paradigm difference between Liberal and Conservative, you say the deck shouldn’t be stacked against the little guy, but for me there is no such thing as a little guy. I understand that you believe in a little guy, not unlike one might believe in leprechauns, and I go along with it in order to continue to talk with you.

    Both manners of misunderstanding, with Muslims or Conservatives, have the same root.

    I suppose my study, to understand each of these worlds in its own terms is limiting, but they are accurate and appropriate limits.

    All in due course.

    And Rush? I said “to the extent he convinces anyone of anything”. When it has happened, it happened because the Liberal did all the work, listening regularly to out-think that arrogant talking head, Limbaugh, and losing point after point by his own judgment in his own head.

  9. While I’m starting to suspect you personally may come from a long line of genetic boobs, in no way am I making the claim that black people are genetically predisposed to be killers.

    You know what though? I think maybe you do. So afraid of a little voice in your head that whispers, “Rabbit thinks I’m an Ape”,you go and shame Harvard.

    Dude, a 7% difference? Black people make up roughly 12% of the population and are responsible for more then half of all murders in America! And the white state include Hispanics!

    What’s sad is the power of that little voice. Panicky, your fingers tap on the keyboard at double speed, begging me to feign sheer ignorance with a mathematical truism even a 4th grader could see. After all, you say, “what other options do we have?????”

    Don’t be threatened by the Rabbit. And don’t be threatened by your own black skin. Ignoring the rich history of West Africa
    and the awesome, resilient legacy of black America, you refuse to merely acknowledge that current black culture is diseased. By not acknowledging the current culture, you do a grave disservice to the culture of the past. Deep down, you would probably rather it be a Genetic vs. Economic debate, as this would allow any sort of responsibility to flutter a way like a butterfly.

    I worked with the most hardened of black criminals under 23 in the state of Virginia and D.C. My job was actually two fold: secretly collect gang intelligence and teach in a prison class room. I was trained to be the “security threat group coordinator” at the facility. Without exaggeration, this put my family in a certain amount of risk. I’m not even totally comfortable writing about it now. I have taken classes on tattoos, graffiti, and gangs themselves. Obviously there is nothing worse then a fucker waxing on about his “rich personal experience” to make a point online, particularly one who has falsified his identity in the past, but I can’t help it.

    Thug life goes way beyond poverty. Thug life is a brand. It is marketed as any other brand: Baseball hats made specifically for a wide array of gangs. T-shirts. Pop songs. Shoes. Websites. Energy Drinks. Thug life is an infection that can be found every where. While some are born into it, many chose it.

    When push came to shove, you ended up doing exactly what you said you wouldn’t do a few months ago when you were playing Bill Cosby. Back to Al Sharpton, now I suppose. Your path of least resistance while a dozen more young black men will be murdered tonight.

  10. Bunny Boy, I suspect you meant this for the “It’s Getting Hard to be White in America” thread …

  11. Sorry Tex, I realize I owe you a response to your “off topic”.

    Look, this comes down to whether we believe the economy needs stimulus. If the answer is no, then we stop the spending and we just lower everybody’s taxes. I personally believe the economy needs stimulus. Lower taxes will put money in people’s bank accounts which they will either save or use to pay off debt because they are afraid. The gov’t needs to not be afraid and spend money that will get businesses moving again, so folks will keep their jobs, hiring will increase and the fear among the masses will reduce enough that ordinary folks will start spending money again. It’s really as simple as that.

  12. Dead Rabbit, you have successfully evaded the challenge by throwing the spotlight back on me.

    OK, we’ve established that you find nothing genetic in black population violence trends (although you’re currently doubting the quality of my tree — LOL– ). Fine and dandy. So what’s your answer? Now that you’re done teaching thugs, you’re content to sit in your house with a loaded gun and not worry too much about how to FIX the problem.

    Or is it that you found your experience in youth prisons so disheartening that you consider the situation hopeless? As I have said before, the approach of Bill Cosby and John McWhorter is very appealing to me. BUT what will it take for their approach to rule the day? You say that black culture is diseased. Some doctor you are! What good is the diagnosis without a treatment? What’s your answer on the cure for what ails the black community? And you might want to apply that cure to the Mexican drug lords and the Korean gangs as well. Or are their cultures less diseased?

    One of the reasons why I try to keep race as a 5% to 10% topic on this blog is the damn thing is so intractable. No matter how much I might agree with you about responsibility and self governance, I’m still left looking at an unsolved problem which tells me that the simple answer of “get your damn act together” just isn’t enough. What is the answer?

    Quite frankly, you’ve been exposed to much more of the crud than I have. Criminals scare me. I would be terrified to work with them everyday. So you, based on your experience and intelligence should be able to do more or say more than just point at the diseased culture.

    If you had the power, how would you fix it?

    P.S. Regarding your reference to my dark skin, I should remind you I’m fair enough to easily pass for white, which has given me an even more acute sense of the absurdity of this whole racial divide.

  13. My experience working in the prisons kind of left me bewildered, to be honest. It seemed even amongst gang-bangers and crack dealers, I found the same ratio of likable people to unlikable people as I have found in every other segment of society. Although, the female prison was a little different because there was so much more mental illness. Also, the high stress level that exists in a correctional facility ramps it all up a bit too.

    Inmates: A few were very smart. Some had low IQs. Some fucking crazy. There was probably a higher percentage of sociopath-paths then you would find in the real world. And a small handful were evil.

    Oh yeah, there was one who always played with a pet mouse….just kidding.

    The Dead Rabbit policy of “DTA”worked pretty good in the prisons as I believe it does when thuggish black dudes show up on my porch at an odd time in the evening.

    Look R, I don’t have the answers. But damn, man, at least I’m not trying to force feed a reality to myself that just isn’t true. If even Harvard grads like yourself find skewing unpalatable facts almost irresistible, what about the rest of the black community? Or for that matter, the rest of the media?

    No wonder the Bill Cosby method won’t work. Dudes with IQ’s over 130 seem incapable of even reading a fricking chart.

    Perhaps the way to fix the problem is a grass roots, viral, spread of “Cosbyism”. But that will never work when guys like you go on the defense in irrational ways.

    One thing is for sure, blacks in America have yet to look at the graphs I showed you and…..simply read them.

    There have been marches in Oakland because a murderous, cop killing thug got his just desserts.

    Who marches for the black kids killed by black kids?????

    When that march starts, with the same vigor and emotion of hating Officer Whitey, then we’ll be getting somewhere.

  14. If even Harvard grads like yourself find skewing unpalatable facts almost irresistible,…

    Therein lies the problem, DR. You presented statistics, numbers. What are the facts behind the numbers?

    This is where I believe the chasm exists between conservatives and liberals. Conservatives believe there are straight forward solutions to most things. They see black and white and very little grey. “HEY, STOP SHOOTING AND ROBBING AND RAPING! ACT LIKE F**KING HUMAN BEINGS!”

    While liberals see almost all grey. We see mitigating factors everywhere and find solutions very hard to come by. We probably over-think things which is not to say that conservatives are stupid (some are of course). I think conservatives look for the straight line between two points and they don’t allow too much data (or sensory input) to cloud their mind.

    I’m not in denial or on the defensive. I think life is hard. I think it is harder for some than for others. It makes me hesitate to rush to judgment. I can support the Cosby approach and still recognize that it might not be the one size fits all solution to the problem.

    Reality is more than a set of numbers. THAT is why neither you nor I “have the answers”.

  15. Oh, I forgot …. as for the Oakland situation. I haven’t read all the background details but for the sake of argument I will assume the killing of the suspect was a righteous one. Blacks who march in support of a murderous thug should be ashamed of themselves. Case closed.

  16. What? No suggestions on drawing a Liberal into thinking besides fiction and ridicule?

    To get back to Rigorist’s main point, here’s an answer:

    How about giving the liberal some real alternatives to consider? The Republican party is intellectually bankrupt right now. Even you must admit this. Did you see the embarrassing spectacle of John Boehner holding up his 19 page “budget” with not a single number in the damn thing? Did you see his response when asked about future bailouts? “Mmmmm, we’ll see.”

    When an articulate intellectual conservative comes forth and has the respect of the Republican party (unlike David Fromm who is abused by them) then perhaps liberals will bother to listen. Right now we have no one but clowns to listen to.

  17. The Republican party is intellectually bankrupt right now.

    And the Democratic party isn’t? In addition, I feel the Democratic party is also morally bankrupt. And before you start listing names of the opposing party, yes I’m aware that there is a large segment of Republican leaders that are immoral hypocrites and deserve to be summarily booted.

    ——————————–

    Here’s your fix for the American black population. As a doctor I can make a diagnosis but I can’t force the patient to follow the advice. For what it is worth…

    A great majority of the black population are immoral. Period. And have been for at least two generations now. Every problem you see is symptomatic of that fact. Unwed mothers, sperm donors, gang bangers, general thugs, dropouts, and underachievers all lead back to the fact your family unit has disintegrated.

    And white America is quickly following the act.

    I read a statistic this week. In 1958, 5% of children were born out of wedlock. Fifty years later, 40% of children are born out of wedlock.

    Give you another fact. In my graduating class of 600 in 1978, exactly one gal had a child before graduating from high school. And she ended up marrying the father. It didn’t last I understand, but even 30 years ago, there was a sense of shame for breaking cultural norms and a sense of personal responsibility to fix it best you could without looking for some benevolent granddaddy called Government to bail you out.

    Now? We wear our immorality with pride Rutherford. And you want us to continue to operating in your shade of gray where apparently there are no absolutes? No thanks. I raised my children far differently.

  18. Rutherford incorrectly reads a set of stunning statistics which in turn illuminates his sheer self-constructed oblivion. His response? Stats really don’t mean anything to Liberals.

    I wish Dr. Tex could make some synthetic realism in a very concentrated form, put it in a syringe and give you a big booster shot right in your ass. Dead Rabbit would be waiting in the lobby with a lolly pop (or a Rockey Patel cigar), pad your tears and welcome you to planet Earth.

  19. The single most effective and life changing solutions in the prisons was bar none the embrace of Christianity. The 2nd was the embrace of Education. I probably should have said that earlier.

  20. When the objective is to get a man to see the world in a way entirely different than he is accustomed, the language itself is a obstacle. Consider your own problems in getting me to see the world from your perspective.

    To illuminate by repetition:

    “Regarding evidence of the paradigm difference between Liberal and Conservative, you say the deck shouldn’t be stacked against the little guy, but for me there is no such thing as a little guy. I understand that you believe in a little guy, not unlike one might believe in leprechauns, and I go along with it in order to continue to talk with you.”

  21. And white America is quickly following the act.

    Now Tex, I already knew that white folks ripped off rock and roll from black people but I didn’t know they were ripping off immorality from them too! Damn, now blacks have something else to be proud of. They even paved the way in immorality! 👿

    Sorry but all of the moral failings you cite run across the board. Out of wedlock marriage is quickly becoming the norm, with many celebrities being poster boys and girls for it.

    But I will say this Tex. You reminded me of something from my childhood.You say “I raised my children far differently” concerning shades of grey. I was raised pretty strict (even though religion was not part of my upbringing). I always wondered why my liberal parents gave me such a hard time but their social perspective was to give a free pass (i.e. lots of empathy) to the foolishness of others. I always found it contradictory, if not hypocritical. Now as a parent, I find myself in the same boat. My socio-political view is not evident in the way I raise my daughter. She will not be getting pregnant outside of marriage if I have anything to do with it. I don’t even want her having a “boyfriend” until she is in college at the earliest. (I cannot fathom how parents encourage their 14 and 15 year olds to be involved in “romantic” relationships.)

    So, I guess I am the same hypocrite my parents were.

  22. Or a woman that he is in love with and who is in lust with him in reply.

    Frankly, in open society, I think a woman comes ahead of education and even Christianity.

    I’m just being pragmatic here.

  23. Rigorist, the trick is you say “open society”. Prison is hardly an open society and the men do not have access to women.

    BTW DR, my understanding is that not a few number of prisoners discover Islam in prison and are redeemed by it. 🙂

  24. WAIT A MINUTE!

    Just what would you, an atheist, mean by ‘redeemed’? I can’t see how anything that Islam would do for such a guy that you would consider redeeming.

  25. WAIT A MINUTE! Just what would you, an atheist, mean by ‘redeemed’? I can’t see how anything that Islam would do for such a guy that you would consider redeeming.

    I don’t mean redeemed in the eyes of the Lord. I mean redeemed as in turned away from evil ways. And again, I repeat, I’m not an atheist. The term that best describes me is a nullifidian.

  26. “If you or anyone else can help me understand this, I’d be appreciative”, referring to middle class conservatives identifying with fat cat financial predators.”

    Interesting thread, though somewhat convoluted at this point, so I bring us back to the beginning.

    Remove obstacles, create opportunity, and provide security. That is what I expect from the government.

    Intent, capability, and opportunity. That is what I expect from people.

    Liberalism and conservatism both look to make people the same, the difference is that liberalism pulls everyone down to the lowest common denominator, whereas conservatism attempts to push everyone towards the highest common denominator. The difference is expectations- it is not hard to take something away, but very difficult to create something, so going after the people who have already succeeded in life is easy- just take and give to the have-nots and they’ll love you forever. Liberalism is quintessentially populism, and in my opinion, the low road.

    But like I said, it is much harder to make something and I think that the middle class work hard for what they have. They’re not looking for a hand out, but rather a hand up. So, they see the ‘fat cat financial predators’ (one can only assume you mean millionaires) are a goal, an example of success rather than the liberal assumption of predatory actors (which is ironic considering how many liberal millionaires there are- George Soros, now there is a predator).

    We have got to get away from this notion and culture of what can you give me, versus what can I do for myself. We’re becoming a culture of whats the easy way, versus what is the right way.

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