The Lawson Insurance Act of 2014

November 15, 2013 at 10:57 pm 801 comments

In the wake of the debacle known as the rollout of the Affordable Care Act (ACA aka Obamacare), everyone has a criticism but folks seem short on solutions. Time for me to write my own legislation. I won’t profess that these ideas are particularly original but they seem to be the right combination of things to cure what ails us, without the complicated big bang blow up of Obamacare. I hereby present the Lawson Insurance Act of 2014.

What should be our goals up front?

  • Quality of health insurance
  • Affordability
  • Portability

The HIOC

The first element of the plan is the establishment of the Health Insurance Oversight Commission, a government body modeled after the FDA and the FCC that audits and approves all insurance policies issued in the US. Most of us are thankful or take for granted that we have government entities that enforce minimum standards on the food we eat and the drugs we take and the publicly available communications that we consume. The HIOC would serve this purpose in the health insurance realm. Such popular provisions in Obamacare such as no disqualification due to pre-existing conditions would be enforced by the HIOC.  The HIOC would also disapprove so-called junk insurance policies.

Some right wing zealots say we should be “free” to buy junk insurance policies if we so choose. This of course flies in the face of the widely accepted role of government in consumer protection. The only one who profits from a junk insurance policy is the insurance company. The folks who buy them, probably because they can’t afford better, don’t understand they are throwing their money away and are not protected from bankruptcy in the event of a serious illness. It is a proper role of government to keep these folks from being played for suckers.

Indeed Obamacare has attempted to do that with the horrific result that millions of folks are being summarily dropped from their substandard insurance policies and offered alternatives that are double or triple the premium. This is the very definition of the road to hell being paved with good intentions. So let’s move on to affordability.

Medicaid, not Medicare, For All

Medicaid is associated with the poor. I would submit the definition of poor in this country has changed. With so much wealth shifted to the top 1% of this country, we now have a whole new class of working poor who live paycheck to paycheck. I suggest that a needs based Medicaid expansion take place with the precise goal of bridging the gap between what people are charged for insurance premiums and what they can afford. With these supplements, we allow people to pay what they can truly afford for health insurance without placing downward pressure on the profit motive of the insurance companies. Call it a socialist buttress to capitalism. The supplements could be handled in either of two ways. We could pay these supplements to individuals who would file their insurance premium bills much as a businessman might file an expense report and then get reimbursed a certain amount based on need. The other method would be to pay insurance companies directly some sensibly calculated stipend which would allow them to pass reduced cost on to their customers. In this way the insurance company basically has two customers — the government who pays them to keep premiums affordable — and the policy holder who pays the affordable premium. Of course, insurance companies who not meet the minimum standards of the HIOC would not qualify for supplements at all.

Stop Protecting Insurance Companies From True Capitalism

Since health insurance is not a brick and mortar consumer item there is no reason for there to be a geographic constraint on its sale. All insurance companies should be required to accept policy holders from anywhere in the country. There should also be a push for a purely private insurance industry with employment-based insurance being completely phased out. There is no Earthly reason why affording health care should be attached to employment at any particular employer. Insurance companies should be exposed to the same risks and rewards of any other company competing in the capitalistic marketplace. We should be seeing health insurance commercials with Anthem battling it out with United Health Care to offer consumers the best quality for the most competitive price.

Universal Coverage

Did anyone notice I didn’t list universal coverage as a goal? It wasn’t an oversight on my part. I’m beginning to think that it is THAT goal that has sunk the ACA rollout. You can’t believe in capitalism and in the same breath say that EVERYONE can buy (or must buy) a particular product. Unless you go complete socialist on this and demand Medicare for all, then you must give up the universal coverage goal. The goal should be for government to put a bit of juice into the system so that the vast majority of people can afford quality health insurance. The goal should be to exploit the greatest virtues of capitalism (for example, competitive downward price pressure) to get as many folks insured as possible.

OK, the details are a bit fuzzy. I’ll admit that. I’m not a policy wonk or a legislator. I suggest that the above ideas are simpler and more understandable than Obamacare. Now it’s your turn to tweak this, tear it apart, reconstruct it. But there are two things you DON’T get to do.

You don’t get to trash it without your own solution.

You don’t get to settle for the status quo.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

 

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801 Comments Add your own

  • 1. Rutherford  |  November 15, 2013 at 11:06 pm

    I’d like to note that Obama was against the mandate before he was for it. With 20/20 hindsight, he was probably right the first time. My “plan” has no mandate in it.

  • 2. El Tigre  |  November 15, 2013 at 11:59 pm

    Please define “junk insurance.”

  • 3. dead rabbit  |  November 16, 2013 at 12:05 am

    Hey…..this has nothing to do with agreeing with you. But….this beats yet another pick on Sara Palin when the chips are down post.

    I’ll respond when I get on my puter.

  • 4. dead rabbit  |  November 16, 2013 at 12:06 am

    We do need to know what is acceptable insurance. Not getting burned by that again.

  • 5. dead rabbit  |  November 16, 2013 at 12:06 am

    Tiger beat me to it

  • 6. El Tigre  |  November 16, 2013 at 12:13 am

    Also, is the “objective” to reduce the cost of the delivery of medical services or just competitive pricing of policies with something short of universal coverage?

  • 7. Alfie  |  November 16, 2013 at 12:17 am

    Not for nothing Rutherford but three flaws here are:
    #1 Your FDR-ian you pay what you can thing,it doesn’t fly
    #2 Medicaid is state based ultimately,you’re opening yourself to separate but equal but not really issue.
    #3 The biggie and where much to the horror of my friends on my side of the political spectrum I differ BIG TIME. You,like Obama,like Romney and like Medicare and Medicaid the biggest issue is being missed,price. Currently we have different prices for where you live,who you see,what you get you done and whose card you have in your wallet. When we try to address this issue we go the reimbursement route and that sucks. Bottomline and again the horror show…what we need is caps on prices. You want to charge the max fine. You want to charge less cool. Perhaps we allow insurance companies to issue merit pay for outcomes. Bottomline you can’t have educated consumers in healthcare when getting care is the equivalent to going to a restaurant with no prices on the menu and a maitre’d who picks willy nilly what you should pay.

  • 8. Tex Taylor  |  November 16, 2013 at 12:20 am

    Indeed Obamacare has attempted to do that with the horrific result that millions of folks are being summarily dropped from their substandard insurance policies and offered alternatives that are double or triple the premium

    You immediately lose credibility when you call the policies “substandard.” Second government oversight over the very group that has caused the problem to begin with? When are you going to learn government does very little well or efficient?

    In fact, many of the substandard policies are better with no caps and lower deductibles than that afforded by El Bombacare. Quit parroting the stupid shit used as tacit defense that you hear on MSNBC. It makes you look stupid.

    Second, many people prefer to carry only major medical because (1) They are young; (2) They are wealthy and only need catastrophic coverage; (3) They like the cafeteria style benefit. 60 year old women don’t need maternity care or Cialis.

  • 9. El Tigre  |  November 16, 2013 at 12:22 am

    Alfie, you’re not suggesting that people be entitled to purchase “junk medical services,” are you?

  • 10. Tex Taylor  |  November 16, 2013 at 12:24 am

    I’ll think about my solutions. But they start with opening up access to any policy available across the U.S., and requiring every hospital and doctor to post the going prices so people can shop and compare.

    My biggest problem rests with how do I put the onus on every individual to care about themselves without making the penalty so severe, they can’t possible afford health insurance? Everybody needs some skin in the game.

  • 11. El Tigre  |  November 16, 2013 at 12:28 am

    Tex, calling them substandard is semantics. The point is that Obama plan requires purchasing unnecessary/personally undesirable coverage by a certain demographic to fund the pool for the others. Stated differently, they are not “substandard” for all — just the ones who require greater coverage but can’t affordably finance it through their own participation alone.

  • 12. El Tigre  |  November 16, 2013 at 12:33 am

    Tex, you’ll have to figure out how to give direct economic incentive to shop and compare. Although I know little about them, I understand health savings accounts do offer some incentive to shop cost.

  • 13. Tex Taylor  |  November 16, 2013 at 12:37 am

    Tigre, in a nutshell like we’ve been telling Rutherford for three years now, this is nothing more than a massive transfer of wealth and a Prog’s wet dream of utopia government. The most substandard thing of Obamacare is the quality of the care itself.

    These Dims, who are scared shitless because all that was forewarned is now coming true, are rambling on about the ineptness of the website design using it as excuse for the failure – the website design equivalent to Obama’s reign as President (epic failure).

    But that is the least of the problems with this incredible boondoggle. The real problems haven’t even hardly come to light yet.

  • 14. El Tigre  |  November 16, 2013 at 12:44 am

    I know. I know. R’s floundering is painful to witness. Maybe it’s just the initial stages of grief.

  • 15. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 16, 2013 at 1:03 am

    Since health insurance is not a brick and mortar consumer item there is no reason for there to be a geographic constraint on its sale.

    It’s called the Tenth Amendment.

    Since you’ve probably never read it, I’ll save you the trouble of googling it, and instead reprint it in its entirety for you:

    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

    Now the powers delegated to the United States are clearly set forth in the Constitution. Rather than republishing that in its entirety, I will instead spare you the effort you are unlikely to take on your own anyway, and ruin the surprise: The Federal Government has not been delegated ANY authority to usurp the state’s authority to determine what insurance companies may do business within their borders or what policies those companies may or may not sell to their citizens. None. Which means that if it is to actually come by that authority, it MUST get it through amendment, an unlikely prospect made more unlikely by the trainwreck that is ObamaDoesn’tCare “rollout”.

    Check and mate.

  • 16. Rutherford  |  November 16, 2013 at 1:11 am

    “Check and mate.”

    BiC are you prepared to answer an honest question from a curious student or do you want to play punk?

    I’ll assume the former. What is the constitutional justification behind the FDA and FCC?

  • 17. Rutherford  |  November 16, 2013 at 1:14 am

    To answer Tigre’s question I define junk policy as a low premium high deductible policy full of exclusions such that when you really need the insurance in a pinch it does you zero good and you go bankrupt paying med bills.

    I don’t know if that is how Obama or MSNBC define it.

  • 18. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 16, 2013 at 1:21 am

    The short answer would be “acquiescence”. Because their regulatory functions were never historically performed by the states, the states didn’t have any objections when the Feds proposed assuming the authority to regulate those industries to begin with. But a valid justification could also be argued in the commerce clause.

    However, the first part of this answer isn’t true of insurance companies, as states have historically regulated the sales of insurance within in their borders, as they do with banking functions, mortgage sales and securities transactions (See “blue sky laws”.), and unlike securities transactions, insurance doesn’t necessarily lend itself to parallel regulatulatory schemes.

  • 19. El Tigre  |  November 16, 2013 at 1:30 am

    “I define junk policy as a low premium high deductible policy full of exclusions such that when you really need the insurance in a pinch it does you zero good and you go bankrupt paying med bills.”

    In all seriousness, this clarifies nothing. All Major medical is low premium, high deductible. Frankly that defines most policies these days — even employer provided. Do you know what you mean?

  • 20. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 16, 2013 at 1:35 am

    Do you know what you mean?

    It means that he believes in the mythic safety of Big Daddy Government’s Consequence-Free Bubble Wrap For Life™.

  • 21. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 16, 2013 at 2:02 am

    Also, when I read you waxing poetic about expanding Medicaid, which, as has already been pointed out, is a STATE-run program (with Federal money, or more accurately, money collected from the citizens of the states, then sent back to the governments of those states) which also suffers from one of the same major issues that Medicare does, namely that because government is setting the price it is willing to pay for services, and will not pay for some services at all, I don’t know how it is you think you will be able to get doctors in the volumes needed to make your expansion actually work…a problem raised by the ObamaDoesn’tCare Medicaid expansion, that hasn’t been addressed by the same geniuses who spent obscene amounts on a website that doesn’t work.

    Then there is also the issue of the mechanics of Medicaid, such as the fact that many states, including mine, have the power to place liens on the property of those unable to pay for their care and instead rely on the taxpayers to do it for them. While it may not “bankrupt” people like those who CHOOSE to purchase high deductible, catastrophic coverage, and then don’t set aside anything for the inevitable manifestation of Murphy and his law, the state will get its money back, and more often than not, in ways that often end up displacing surviving spouses or preventing them from taking advantage of their homes in order to take care of themselves.

    I think you suffer from the same problem as President Derp. Your details aren’t “a bit fuzzy”. You’re making plans with absolutely no idea how things work.

  • 22. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 16, 2013 at 2:08 am

    Some right wing zealots say we should be “free” to buy junk insurance policies if we so choose. This of course flies in the face of the widely accepted role of government in consumer protection.

    And this flies in the face of the economic truth that government regulation ALWAYS increases complexity, which becomes a cost all on its own, along with the costs of compliance, all of which get passed on to the end consumer until price elasticity can no longer bear the pass-thru, driving providers out of business. And when there are fewer providers, there is less competition, and less choice. But at least government will have managed to suck even more money out of the private sector, and create the closest thing to immortality that there is…government bureaucracy.

  • 23. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 16, 2013 at 2:34 am

    I think you suffer from the same problem as President Derp. Your details aren’t “a bit fuzzy”. You’re making plans with absolutely no idea how things work.

    Actually, this isn’t a fair characterization for either of you. Instead, I should have said “I think you suffer from the same problem as President Derp. You both make plans, completely unburdened by the knowledge of how things work.”

  • 24. Tex Taylor  |  November 16, 2013 at 7:58 am

    Rutherford,

    I have a question. A serious question which requires a serious answer. I know you’re “disappointed” with Obama.

    But do you feel any sense of shame as you lie down in the dark and think about the world, now recognizing Barack Obama pretty much an empty suit, full of himself, and truth be known, other than a great delivery from the tele – certainly far from the “brilliance” that was sold to us?

    I don’t want to hear about how George Bush was a trust fund baby nor terrible talented himself. I fully admit George Bush marginal, though I still find him trustworthy and a good American. He’s been a complete class act since he left office. He has my admiration for the simple things.

    I want to talk strictly about Barack Obama. This is not one of those “told you so”, “in your face” criticisms. I just find the man a surly farce – and it has nothing to do with race, because I find plenty of smart blacks out there.

    But Barack Obama isn’t one of them, IMO. I think he’s in so far over his head, that the only thing that thrills him is to campaign. I don’t think he or his staff have any idea how to solve what ails America.

  • 25. El Tigre  |  November 16, 2013 at 9:20 am

    I gotta admit. Though I think we all know the answer, I am curious about the answer to Tex’s question too. I have wondered it nearly every time I visit this blog — especially when the Palin distraction was offered as serious commentary. .

  • 26. El Tigre  |  November 16, 2013 at 9:38 am

    “I don’t know if that is how Obama or MSNBC define it.”

    You must. That’s where you heard the term. I’ll wager not once did you use the word or mention the concept until Obama rolled it out to try and explain away his overt lie.

    If you don’t see that Obama’s regulatory prohibition on certain types of policies aren’t about “consumer protection” but rather the funding mechanism for the premium/expansion/coverage shifting that is Obamacare, you’re retarded or deluded.

    To state what should be obvious, insurance of all types is one of the most highly regulated consumer products ever, however, it is done at the state level. This concept that the consumer that buys what you define as “junk” has been “duped” requires more serious reconsideration. Lack of precision or not, you’ve only repeated the propaganda here.

  • 27. El Tigre  |  November 16, 2013 at 9:46 am

    “You both make plans, completely unburdened by the knowledge of how things work.”

    I read this and was reminded of the cash for clunkers debacle.

    I now see Obamacare is just another cash for clunkers.

    But at least the plans were born of good intentions. If you ignore the end results, all the plans good ones. Well, you of course have to believe that anyone that opposes them are motivated by bad intentions too.

    We Are What We’ve Been Waiting For!

  • 28. James  |  November 16, 2013 at 10:28 am

    I agree ObamaCare is another Cash for Clunkers. Before politicians intrude on and alter private enterprise they ought to investigate other systems and borrow what could work here. Auto and other insurance programs also might have features graftable onto health insurance.

    Other countries like Finland certainly have policies we might successfully adapt. Infant mortality, for example, is low in Finland. Why? The BBC News Magazine has an answer. “Why Finnish babies sleep in cardboard boxes.”

  • 30. Alfie  |  November 16, 2013 at 10:53 am

    @21 touches upon something George W wanted to work on before 9/11. The working classes and below are stuck in a rut of perpetuity when it comes to economics. This truth actually has bipartisan support when you think of how the left rails against the disparities in income etc. etc.
    Well if folks didn’t have to “spend down” their assets for Medicaid perhaps that chain could break. Obviously some minor privatization of Social Security would help in this regard as well but perhaps we’re not ready for that tangent this early in the thread.

  • 31. Alfie  |  November 16, 2013 at 10:58 am

    @ Tex @ 10 perhaps I’m not out in left field. Thats two guys on the right that want the pricing up front so “consumers” can actually shop.

  • 32. Alfie  |  November 16, 2013 at 11:01 am

    As the author of the plot of the previous post I just want to say one more time the point was to contrast two views.
    One that was bubble-headed (Palin) in my opinion and another that showed the GOP needs to be strong on offering its vision.(Lee)

  • 33. Alfie  |  November 16, 2013 at 11:15 am

    Yeah fuck it tangent time. I can’t find it but Rutherford didn’t you put forth the CBS apology as somehow being pro-Obama anti-GOP. Upon further review if that is so I am not seeing it.

  • 34. El Tigre  |  November 16, 2013 at 11:26 am

    Your opinion was obscured by R’S return to the tired Palin RANTING.

    Direct your consternation at the blog host who flattered you with a semi-reblog then tossed your point. The majority here have for years said Palin needs to go away.

    R, like Bashir and the liberal media, have retuned to Palin as a distraction. Why, during this crisis, there’s a focus on Palin from the loudmouthed propagandists is not hard to figure out.

  • 35. James  |  November 16, 2013 at 11:31 am

    Yes, the Republicans need to offer a strong alternative with reliance on regulated private enterprise lest they fall into Hayek’s trap of “fatal conceit” as Obama did.

    A group of planners who know what is best for the rest of us will fail no matter if they are liberals or conservatives. Economic complexities are beyond the capability of anyone to understand, let alone successfully control

  • 36. El Tigre  |  November 16, 2013 at 11:36 am

    How about starting with the recognition that there’s no such thing as a free lunch?

  • 37. El Tigre  |  November 16, 2013 at 12:06 pm

    From the prior thread, here you go R. the liberal rhetoric watchdogs since the Giffords shooting. :roll:

    Now imagine a conservative personality saying this about Obama or any liberal. A real gem from your window on the world that also brought us Alex Baldwin:

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/11/15/msnbcs_bashir_suggests_sarah_palin_should_be_defecated_pissed_on.html

  • 38. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 16, 2013 at 12:10 pm

    ET, it’s worse than that. While I was checking it out for yesterday’s post, I learned he has several Palin hate-on sessions.

  • 39. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 16, 2013 at 12:30 pm

    @21 touches upon something George W wanted to work on before 9/11. The working classes and below are stuck in a rut of perpetuity when it comes to economics. This truth actually has bipartisan support when you think of how the left rails against the disparities in income etc. etc.

    An appealing idea for several reasons, not the least of which is the thought that I might actually see something come back to me out of all I paid in.

    Well if folks didn’t have to “spend down” their assets for Medicaid perhaps that chain could break. Obviously some minor privatization of Social Security would help in this regard as well but perhaps we’re not ready for that tangent this early in the thread.

    As a practitioner, I am very ambivalent about the spend down, but then the issue I encounter is often not that people don’t have the resources to spend for their own care, but rather that they instead often want to transfer their wealth to their own kids and let the taxpayers pay for them. On the one hand, longevity appears to be a gift. On the other, living for 15 or 20 years beyond retirement, rather than 4 or 5 is precisely the reason why we’re in this mess. Seeing first-hand how people get warehoused for that last decade is one reason why I say “If the difference is dying happy after having lived my life, and spending the next 8 years in a wheelchair, in a nursing home, staring off into space and drooling on myself, I have the damn steak.”

  • 40. poolman  |  November 16, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    Ah, another agency ripe for regulatory capture, just what the doctor ordered – not!

    I think the federal government has been given way more authority than it was ever meant to have. My plan would deconstruct the system that is so rife with middlemen, corruption, and over all unhealthiness. A mandate requiring all citizens to purchase private insurance with a guaranteed 20 percent profit margin to these entities is unAmerican at its core, and definitely counter our constitution. It also is not capitalism. Welcome to fascism.

    I will pay my doctor cash for his services. If the exchange is chickens, then I will pay in chickens. I will concentrate on whole health, starting kids right after they are weaned. No sodas with high fructose corn syrup and acids or no GM soy products, etc.

    Exercise and healthy living habits, fresh produce, free range foul, and grass fed livestock. Ignore the ‘science’ sponsored by corporations that tailor findings to support their products/endeavors as wholesome/harmless.

  • 41. poolman  |  November 16, 2013 at 1:26 pm

    While in Texas, my business partner was provided a free vasectomy by a urologist client we built a pool for. Partner had five kids and was complaining about the cost of the elective procedure when the doctor suggested a trade of services. Win/win.

  • 42. James  |  November 16, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    I agree El Tigre there is no free lunch. Someone pays.

    39, transferring wealth to the next generation is a rational decision. Why should the government take what a family created and deny parent’s help to their children? I agree that attitude creates problems for the government which pays for Social Security etc.

    I have been researching ideas for another column. Rednex recorded a novelty country song, “Cotton Eye Joe”, which is still played at proms and athletic events.The song is quintessional red neck fun.

    Actually the band is Swedish and it has tried several business models over the years. They attempted to sell the name on Amazon, and instead of using regular musicians they have a stable of over 20 who rotate from performance to performance. Dancers also move in and out of the shows.

    Now, the band has become the first to franchise itself like McDonalds with two clones in Australia and Aukland.

    Similar creativity will bloom as an alternative to a moribund medical health insurance system. We will need it.

    After three more years, we won’t have to visit Europe. We will be Europe without the old castles and cathedrals.

  • 43. James  |  November 16, 2013 at 2:03 pm

    Poolman, barter is already with us.

    My wife and I both have good longevity genes. My father, for example disked for 6 hours without stopping when he was 91.We have an incentive–our grand daughter. Her parents are still hoping we will be active enough to take her to pre- school and kindergarten.

    Our daughter’s friend has booked a good pre- school for $8,000 per year. ObamaCare insurance will cost our daughter an extra $400 per month, if she can keep her insurance. Pre school would take another bite.

    Life without us would be more expensive for them. She and her husband worship the ground we walk on and they pray no more trains hit us.

  • 44. muffy  |  November 16, 2013 at 2:49 pm

    I think I’ve said this before here but I guess since Rutherford hasn’t moved on – new thread or not – I’ll say it again.

    It seems to me that Sarah Palin doesn’t recognize her own limitations. That can be advantageous to the individual. Especially when someone is young, and falling down or coming up short is sort of expected if you’re trying to get somewhere. And when it happens there’s no question but that you get up and keep going.

    But it’s not always the best thing for the team. Palin isn’t advantageous to her team. Dumb or foxy – she drags the team down. The wise, not to mention classy, thing to do would be to maintain a low profile and enjoy life and her family and her prosperity. Sort of a speak when spoken to approach with regard to the public eye.

    The idea that Sarah Palin thought she could be Vice-President of the United States makes a lot of people wince. The Marty Bashirs and the like make asses of themselves over the idea that she doesn’t know her place in the intellectual hierarchy of elitism. Of course it doesn’t occur to them to weigh whether or not B.O. or Hillary or Biden – or the evil Reid and ridiculous Pelosi – are “worthy” of the position they seek or hold. If they did reflect on their own offerings to public service they would wither and die of shame.

    But it’s much more fulfilling to heap condemnation on Palin – she’s pretty much non-stop begging for a smackdown with her comments. And they’ll fall all over themselves obliging her. Bashir’s hate-on – which is a perfect description of it – is nothing new. Just a little lower than the last low point for decency.

  • 45. El Tigre  |  November 16, 2013 at 3:05 pm

    Muffy, couldn’t agree more.

    I would add that it’s always funny to me when these guys manufacture cheap moral outrage for entertainment. It says a lot about the mindsets of their audience. I guess it’s all of that hate that comes from leading with their hearts. :roll:

  • 46. James  |  November 16, 2013 at 4:03 pm

    Liberals are afraid someone will pull the stake from the vampire’s chest.

    Sarah Palin has charisma, and she has created a profitable niche for herself.She is everything leftist feminists say a woman should be, and they hate her for being an outspoken conservative.

    Palin has reached her level of incompetence as Obama has surpassed his. Deep in the liberals dirty little hearts lurks the fear that Palin might still be resurrected. Others just hate her guts and wish she was dead..

  • 47. muffy  |  November 16, 2013 at 4:39 pm

    Speaking of Baldwin Tigre since you and I both go slumming over on MSNBC more than most bipeds I figure you might have caught his show once or twice. Oh my. He is a brilliant and funny character actor but what a crashing bore he is when he’s just talking! The show is much, MUCH worse than I ever imagined. It was torture watching him interview Debra Winger one time. I was mouth agape wondering how people could be that talented and that much of a wreck at the same time. I guess it’s that artistic genius madness.

    When I first heard about him calling the photographer a cocksucking faggot recently I really thought he just did it to get out of that show with a flourish. But I watched the tape. He’s dangerous – at least if he’s even half telling the truth when he puffs up and starts bearing down on someone. I was just watching him on a screen and I nearly started backing up to get the hell away.

  • 48. eltigre100  |  November 16, 2013 at 5:15 pm

    I do think you and I are the only ones slumming it over there. And it makes me feel dirty.

    I never did see his show. Your critique is hardly surprising though.

    I have thought he is a talented actor. But his political thoughts are juvenile. No wnder he landed the job. I must say, i loathe entertainers that use their access to a microphone to spout political garbage, right or left. I wish Garafalo would just shoot herself.

  • 49. Noah  |  November 16, 2013 at 5:34 pm

    ACA is corportism. Is it irony that Dems support that?

    http://liberallogic101.com/?p=3804

  • 50. Rutherford  |  November 16, 2013 at 6:26 pm

    “In all seriousness, this clarifies nothing. All Major medical is low premium, high deductible. Frankly that defines most policies these days — even employer provided. Do you know what you mean?”

    First we are not talking employer provided. Most of the millions being cancelled are private insurance.

    Now, let me try to explain my understanding of junk insurance from my own life. My current policy is high premium low deductible. In particular I have 100% coverage of “durable medical equipment”. This includes my oxygen concentrator, my nighttime ventilator and my trach tube care supplies. For me, clearly a low premium high deductible policy with 0 coverage of durable equipment would be money wasted and I would go bankrupt paying medical bills.

    Now let’s say I was young healthy and stupid and had a low premium high deductible policy with lots of exclusions that I didn’t even know about and I was in a life changing accident. That policy would have done me no good. Therefore it would be a junk policy.

    Seriously, is that any clearer? Is this not the commonly understood definition of junk insurance?

  • 51. Rutherford  |  November 16, 2013 at 6:29 pm

    “It means that he believes in the mythic safety of Big Daddy Government’s Consequence-Free Bubble Wrap For Life™.”

    You’re so clever. I can see you now in the 2012 GOP primary audience screaming “yeah” when the correspondent asked Ron Paul if the uninsured should just die.

  • 52. Rutherford  |  November 16, 2013 at 6:31 pm

    “Consequence-Free Bubble Wrap For Life”

    You’re damn right there are consequences. One “consequence” of the social contract is that we take care of each other.

  • 53. Rutherford  |  November 16, 2013 at 6:37 pm

    You guys crack me up. You act like I don’t pay taxes. If I said that I don’t want my hard earned money going towards providing neonatal care for Rabbit’s boy when he was a sick baby or James grandchild, I’d be roundly condemned. I’m proud that perhaps a penny or two of my tax dollars somehow went to the hospitals that acted for my friends kids.

    Maybe if all of you thought of the poor as someone you knew instead of abstract moochers your tune would change.

  • 54. poolman  |  November 16, 2013 at 6:41 pm

    The problem with insurance is you have to use it to gain anything from it other than the perception of a safety net or comply with a forced state mandate. How many times over have you purchased your vent equipment, Rutherford?

  • 55. Rutherford  |  November 16, 2013 at 7:04 pm

    “And this flies in the face of the economic truth that government regulation ALWAYS increases complexity, which becomes a cost all on its own, along with the costs of compliance, all of which get passed on to the end consumer until price elasticity can no longer bear the pass-thru, driving providers out of business.”

    Honestly I’m not trying to be difficult here. How many auto manufacturers are doing just fine passing their cost for adherence to safety onto the consumer? I don’t see them going out of business in droves because of air bags. They mostly go out of business cos they have a crappy product.

    Why can’t insurance companies operate under the same paradigm?

  • 56. poolman  |  November 16, 2013 at 7:07 pm

    Have you looked at the people in this country? There are some pools I’d rather not swim in. No offense. The majority are not healthy-looking and have very bad habits. This is the healthiness we have to pay for in addition to making sure all the middlemen get their mandated cut and their benefits. Soon all the microwaves from wifi and the accumulative radiation in our environment will catch at least 50 percent of us and we’ll be treated to the state’s war on cancer, which, like all its declared wars aren’t necessarily meant to overcome anything, especially once budgets and manpower are equipped and deployed.

  • 57. Rutherford  |  November 16, 2013 at 7:14 pm

    “But Barack Obama isn’t one of them, IMO. I think he’s in so far over his head, that the only thing that thrills him is to campaign. I don’t think he or his staff have any idea how to solve what ails America.”

    I’m not as far from you as you think. I haven’t gotten to the point of malicious intent yet and I doubt I will.

    I’ve just started reading “Double Down” by Halperin and Heilemann (it’s Game Change 2012) and quite frankly their portrait of Obama so far is that of a jerk.

    If I’m still writing this blog at the end of 2016 I will write a piece about Obama and race that will be from a different angle and it will show why the odds of success for this presidency were so low from the start. It has nothing to do with white racists. It has to do with what I perceive as a black mindset. More on that 3 years from now.

  • 58. Rutherford  |  November 16, 2013 at 7:17 pm

    “especially when the Palin distraction was offered as serious commentary. .”

    I have a well known weakness for Palin bashing. If you bothered to read the last thread you would have read my apology to Alfie for singling out his Palin commentary when his entire piece was much more worthy when taken as a whole.

  • 59. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 16, 2013 at 7:19 pm

    Now let’s say I was young healthy and stupid and had a low premium high deductible policy with lots of exclusions that I didn’t even know about

    Saying “young and stupid” is redundant. But we as a society make that worse when we continue to infantilize our children, and sanction a never ending adolescence (See the ObamaDoesn’tCare Bro-surance Ads as Exhibits 1-4). And at the same time, when you buy a policy, and don’t know what is in it, that is YOUR fault, not Mommy’s, not Daddy’s, and not Nanny Government’s fault. YOURS.

    and I was in a life changing accident. That policy would have done me no good. Therefore it would be a junk policy.

    That would be those consequences that I was talking about. Consequences in life generally fall into two categories: (1) Shit Happens; and (2) You Dumbass.

    Shit Happens is when you decide whether or not you are comfortable living in an earthquake zone, and the risks that come from it. Substitute “earthquake” for “volcanic” or “flood” or “hurricane” and you start to get the point. Add in sheer randomness, like getting struck by lightning or having an asteroid fall to Earth and obliterate your car, and you get the idea…

    You Dumbass is the person who buys the low premium, high deductible policy, but never takes the time to read and understand it, because they’re so damn happy that they saved some money, they are partying nightly with the savings, buying a nicer car, or a jet ski, or going on a cruise or dating women they can’t afford. I can respect that they’ve made their choice. They might have even read the policy and taken that chance because they had other goals to be fulfilled with the cash, but life happens. And when life happens, shit happens.

    However, ADULTS don’t expect that it is anyone else’s responsibility to insulate them from these consequences, because ADULTS inform themselves before making decisions and make determinations about how much risk they are willing to tolerate. But regardless of the level of risk inherent in ANY choice, government cannot protect you from the consequences, no matter how many laws or regulations it passes. When it refuses to recognize this fact, all it does is make everything harder for everyone else, either through the burdens and costs of regulation, or through the out right interference of regulatory authorities. Not only does is stifle innovation and progress, it creates a subculture of corruption that turns good intentions into banana republic practices.

    This is why ADULTS were pissed with the housing bubble, and all of the “predatory loan” nonsense, because it was government interference that created that whole market to begin with.

  • 60. Rutherford  |  November 16, 2013 at 7:20 pm

    “You must. That’s where you heard the term. I’ll wager not once did you use the word or mention the concept until Obama rolled it out to try and explain away his overt lie.”

    You’re right and you’re wrong. I didn’t hear the term until this crisis erupted. As for the definition I provided MY best guess as to what it means.

  • 61. Alfie  |  November 16, 2013 at 7:33 pm

    Rutherford why wait till 2016?
    I don’t understand your hang up with insurance companies Rutherford. I would like to see you toss some wrath upon the practitioners. I know you have in it in you,it wasn’t an insurance CEO that almost killed you in a hospital hallway.(or am I not recalling previous statements correctly?)
    The only other thing I’ve got to say is that “train wreck” insurance as a rule is actually pretty good as long as the consumer knows that is indeed what its all about. I got news for you R the CDHC garbage that has been unleashed at my work is just a stones throw away from what you’re really angry about methinks.=insurance that insists it is healthcare as opposed to insurance yet has prohibitive costs that make you afraid to use it. I’d almost be better off with the “junk” you incorrectly lambaste .

  • 62. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 16, 2013 at 7:39 pm

    You’re so clever. I can see you now in the 2012 GOP primary audience screaming “yeah” when the correspondent asked Ron Paul if the uninsured should just die.

    And you’re such an ass. Seriously. You have no idea to what uses I put my money and my time. And if you really think I’m rooting for people to be killed, then you have failed to read and understand a single criticism I have made of ObamaDoesn’tCare, Doc Emmanuel’s “Complete Lives System”, and the proggie philosophy of “nudge”. You want to talk about having people “just die”?

    As we have told you over and over and over again, the difference between your insurance company deciding it won’t pay for a new drug or procedure for you and a government panel doing for it is profound for two reasons.

    First, your association with the insurance company is [well, used to be] voluntary. And if you didn’t like the decisions it made about your care, you had the option to go elsewhere. They made their decisions based on gains and losses. It might not lead to the result you like, but it is a business decision, and it is that kind of consideration driving it which makes it predictable.

    If the government is doing it, especially a progressive government, the driving force behind their decisions is a belief that they know better than you. It isn’t true, and government finds ways to prove it to us every damn day, but still, people like you get caught up in the ridiculous notion that it is compassionate to expand government into all manner of activities that it has no authority to do, no ability to do efficiently, and in ways that give perverse incentives to politicians, who on their best days are still usually the least trustworthy people on the planet, more power, more of your personal sovereignty, and more of the means to take even more of those things from the individual.

    And you keep trotting this meme out and have yet to show me where we have people (1) “dying in the streets”, and (2) that it is the fault of those mean old conservatives. I would love to have a neurologist study your brain. You keep bringing this crap up, even as my comments to you about Medicaid in this thread should help you to understand that we don’t have an epidemic of people dying in the street. I have been part of conversations on this sight when you have been told by people who would have reason to know that the emergency medical system in this country is failing because it is overwhelmed, and not insignificantly by people who keep trying to use the ER for shit that it shouldn’t be used for, or as a substitution for a primary GP.

    Stop it with your bleeding heart bullshit already, and quit presuming that just because some us realize that YOU aren’t going to pay the bill for the utopia that you would force on the rest of us, that it some how makes you more compassionate.

  • 63. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 16, 2013 at 7:45 pm

    You’re damn right there are consequences. One “consequence” of the social contract is that we take care of each other.

    Rutherford, again, the problem with the wishes you cast upon these things is the belief that this is “care” should be administered through the auspices of government, and more precisely, the Federal government. At this point, after years of this failed administration, I really don’t know what example would finally force the scales off your eyes and allow you to see that even if the Federal government had the authority to “take care” of people, it simply isn’t capable of doing it in an efficient manner, or in a way that actually showed compassion, as even with its previous failures such as Medicare and Medicaid, its “one size fits none” approach fails to really “take care” of anyone.

  • 64. El Tigre  |  November 16, 2013 at 7:49 pm

    “Seriously, is that any clearer? Is this not the commonly understood definition of junk insurance?”

    WTF?? No it’s not.

    And yes, I know we’re talking about individual policies. Read what I wrote.

    I guess, I’ll have to go look to see whether I have that coverage you think a necessity on our firm’s group policy. What other fucking exclusions are so common and beyond the ken of an unsophisticated purchaser such that they’ve been duped? All kinds of medications that are needed are no longer on our policy. My wife pays out the ass now for meds from her back surgery. But if including them raises my premiums $500 per month is that supposed to mean that our standard policy is junk?

    Focus. . .focus. For many the all inclusive plans not available because a spouse works for Big Blue can consume 50% of their income. Full coverage for psychiatry is included on many plans too. Your personal example is unilluminating my snarky friend.

    Are any exclusions whatsoever what constitutes “junk” in your opinion? If you can think of one exclusion, the answer is always “that’s the one that’ll bankrupt you.”

    Quick. Tell us what exclusions were the ones that Obama relied on in outlawing the policies that resulted in NO FUCKING INSURANCE FOR 5 MILLION?

    And do me a favor just this once. Address what I wrote to an extent that suggests you know what you’re talking about. The need to put healthy low insurance people to the roles is a necessity. Calling unaffordable coverage options “junk” is doesn’t further the alleged purpose behind the challenge in this post.

  • 65. Rutherford  |  November 16, 2013 at 7:52 pm

    “they ought to investigate other systems and borrow what could work here. Auto and other insurance programs also might have features graftable onto health insurance.”

    I fully agree James. Borrow what you can from models that already work.

    Not for nuthin’ but Obamacare was fashioned after an already working plan — Romneycare. :-)

    By the way I was under the impression cash for clunkers was a success. A bit of revisionist history here?

  • 66. dead rabbit  |  November 16, 2013 at 7:56 pm

    Weird. Under Rutherford’s plan, healthy young people wouldn’t be forced to get insurance but wouldn’t be allowed to have limited insurance either.

    Yeah…..I’m going to go with leave them alone.

    Secondly, young people who end up having something catastrophic happen that they can’t afford is not a cause to freak out. It hardly ever happens. Young people are not driving prices up. This isn’t a young person problem.

    My solution is one that has been tossed around here before….

    Some kind of tax deferred medical fund that can be inherited tax free. I know its a bold idea for the blood sucking self serving Boomer generation. But slowly building a better world for the next generation through family is the only thing that will end up saving this country anyways. We might as well role in a medical strategy into this thinking.

    Sadly, the baby boom generation devise plans that work in the other direction.

  • 67. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 16, 2013 at 7:58 pm

    Honestly I’m not trying to be difficult here. How many auto manufacturers are doing just fine passing their cost for adherence to safety onto the consumer? I don’t see them going out of business in droves because of air bags. They mostly go out of business cos they have a crappy product.

    I don’t know what planet you live on, but here on Earth, American Auto Companies aren’t doing that well at all, and there is a lot of ways regulations effect those products that have direct impacts on your safety that simply aren’t talked about. One such example would be CAFE standards. That happens when government, unburdened by the knowledge of material sciences, physics, and the day-to-day challenges of making payrolls, funding pensions, maintaining benefits packages, covering overhead and materials, as well as the costs of information technologies and tooling, and oh yeah, designing a product someone actually wants to purchase, and maintaining a supply chain, decides that it can magically make cars and trucks more fuel efficient, while maintaining safety for the passengers and drivers of those vehicles, even though these increasing fuel restrictions require that you build with increasing amounts of lightweight materials so you can meet those fuel economy standards. My best friend from childhood works in management at Ford. Aside from our conversations about stupid management tricks, we talk about the kinds of decisions that have to be made because of these types of regulations, or the regulations that effect the activities that they use to finance their business. Some of these regulations have progressed to the point where once explained, even a third grader would look you in the eye and say “That’s insane” or “That regulation works against the other one.” And they’d be right. But when you make statements like the one above, you only serve to demonstrate that you really don’t know what you’re talking about. And it’s getting embarrassing to watch at times.

  • 68. El Tigre  |  November 16, 2013 at 8:01 pm

    “is a necessity for Obama’s plan.”

  • 69. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 16, 2013 at 8:03 pm

    By the way I was under the impression cash for clunkers was a success. A bit of revisionist history here?

    If you call buying up just enough cars (at a premium, I might add), so that the young and the poor suddenly found themselves priced out of the used car market as a smaller supply drove up prices on what used to be in their price range, then yeah…it was a smashing success.

    We would have been further ahead sending checks to people in those buying groups so that they could go out and buy a car.

  • 70. Rutherford  |  November 16, 2013 at 8:04 pm

    “I can’t find it but Rutherford didn’t you put forth the CBS apology as somehow being pro-Obama anti-GOP. Upon further review if that is so I am not seeing it.”

    I don’t recall saying that, Alfie. It is interesting that when I watched the 60 Minutes piece I thought the wheels might be coming off the Obama/Clinton Benghazi bus. I DID comment that when the dreaded MSM skews anti-Obama on Benghazi it ain’t a good thing. Then we find out they screwed up.

    Anyone want to offer an opinion on Fox News trumpeting the original piece but keeping silent on its retraction? Anyone curious why there hasn’t been a Dan Rather sacrificial lamb on this one yet?

  • 71. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 16, 2013 at 8:07 pm

    The need to put healthy low insurance people to the roles is a necessity.

    But to admit this would be to admit that like so much other government “compassion” (I’m looking at you Social Security), ObamaDoesn’tCare is yet another damn ponzi scheme/wealth transfer.

  • 72. Rutherford  |  November 16, 2013 at 8:09 pm

    “Why, during this crisis, there’s a focus on Palin from the loudmouthed propagandists is not hard to figure out.”

    You’re right. Palin has a new book to sell and she loves every second of the coverage. And you know what? You’re also right that fools like me help her book sales. She needs to be IGNORED!!!

  • 73. Rutherford  |  November 16, 2013 at 8:15 pm

    “Economic complexities are beyond the capability of anyone to understand, let alone successfully control.”

    I think that includes so-called economists. Since we’re throwing around “junk” I’d like to suggest economics is junk science. I’m beginning to think both Keynes and Hayek are just full of shit.

  • 74. James  |  November 16, 2013 at 8:17 pm

    Cash for clunkers failed around here. It distorted the used car market and forced people to pay more than they could afford or to go without. Salvage yards which sell parts and their customers suffered too. It distorted the market at the expense of the poor.

    Borrowing from other models sounds so simple, doesn’t it Rutherford? Farmers do it all of the time. We even talk to Brazilians and other farmers for ideas. Why can’t the government?

    Yes, ObamaCare borrowed from RomneyCare and I think the British system. However, what works in a state may fail in a large diverse country. I think each state should make and administer its own model to suit its own situation. Probably some European insurance sytems work as well as they do because they cater to relatively small homogeneous populations.

    I think another problem for ObamaCare is that no central authority oversaw its composition and implementation. Obama was too busy killing bin Laden and golfing.

  • 75. El Tigre  |  November 16, 2013 at 8:19 pm

    “I don’t see them going out of business in droves because of air bags. They mostly go out of business cos they have a crappy product.”

    Forgive me, but am I now buying someone else’s car because it’s a right? I honestly don’t think you have any concept of placing unacceptable burdens on others as a form of oppression, or as you call it “compassion.”

    NO ONE IS ADVOCATING UNSAFE CONSUMER PRODUCTS. CUT THE CRAP.

    This is not an analogy of any meaning. It is getting embarrassing having to address it.

    The problem to be solved is insufficient resources to deliver what you claim as a right. The point of your challenge. Saying “everyone ought to have something” is meaningless if it can’t be provided without creating more harm than good.

    Your platitudes are the ones that sold this piece of shit legislation to the unthinking masses. And it’s why its falling apart before your eyes — every bit of it predicted by the racists and sociopaths that populate your blog. :roll:

  • 76. James  |  November 16, 2013 at 8:21 pm

    Yes, Rutherford.Economics and meteorology are similar. I wouldn’t go so far as say they are junk science but their long term predictions and assumptions become increasingly unreliable with time.

  • 77. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 16, 2013 at 8:26 pm

    You’re so clever. I can see you now in the 2012 GOP primary audience screaming “yeah” when the correspondent asked Ron Paul if the uninsured should just die.

    Actually, the other part of this that you get crashingly wrong is that ObamaDoesn’tCare is that it will force religious hospitals and charities out of business with its mandates, leaving the most vulnerable among us without options or with fewer options for care. But I guess that’s what they get for serving God and not government, right Rutherford?

  • 78. El Tigre  |  November 16, 2013 at 8:27 pm

    “By the way I was under the impression cash for clunkers was a success. A bit of revisionist history here?”

    Holy shit!

    I’ve just stepped through the looking glass.

  • 79. El Tigre  |  November 16, 2013 at 8:31 pm

    For someone that doesn’t know or have any intuition when it comes to economics that’s a hell of a statement.

    Let’s just ignore economics then. You’ve managed to do it into adulthood with an Ivy League education and can’t explain what is happening around you. Obviously it’s the discipline.

  • 80. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 16, 2013 at 8:33 pm

    Thanks for that, Tigre.

    At least it was only water I blew out through my nose.

    Coffee HURTS.

  • 81. El Tigre  |  November 16, 2013 at 8:34 pm

    “She needs to be IGNORED!!!”

    No shit. Any chance you’ve seen everyone here say it?

    Who shall we use then to stoke your outrage?

    Turn off the damn MSNBC.

  • 82. dead rabbit  |  November 16, 2013 at 9:19 pm

    Cash for Clunkers a success??

    Wtf?

    Classic liberal. I swear….once a scheme is passed its off to the next one. Rear view mirror ripped off and thrown out the window of the clunker.

    Dude…and you are aghast that we never trust your liberal schemes….

    Do you have any idea how much the working poor got corn holed on that one?

    How about this. How much did it cost and how much ended up injected into the economy? And then…did it cause people to merely buy some cars early or buy more cars?

    You see, if I was a liberal blogger….I would have researched that…after all….that would be great to throw I’m conservative faces if the results showed a success. So come on Belky….lets start with the minor league. Research Cash for Clunkers.

    Lastly…..and this is just personal, I GOT FUCKED. I sat at a dealership all day fucking with that government cluster fuck only to have the rules changed the next day disqualifying me. I couldn’t believe it. The rules changed over night!

    It was the waste of time that really bugged me more then anything.

    It was pure confusion. At least I thought so until I saw what Obamacare did to this country. Talk about small potatoes.

  • 83. Rutherford  |  November 16, 2013 at 9:24 pm

    Tigre I haven’t read your RealClear link yet but FWIW I wanted to state the following for the record:

    I think it is reprehensible that MSNBC is exploiting the 50th anniversary of JFK’s assassination to discuss gun control. Case in point Al Sharpton’s “50 Years of Guns” to be broadcast on Nov 22.

    Gun control IMHO has nothing to do with political assassins.

  • 84. dead rabbit  |  November 16, 2013 at 9:28 pm

    I cant believe how fucked Obamacare is. This is what should be happening once an hour on MSNBC and once every 15 minutes in every Democrat’s office in DC. I’d throw in bloggers but wouldn’t want anything happen to our chew toy.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Seppuku-2.jpg

  • 85. Rutherford  |  November 16, 2013 at 9:28 pm

    “If the difference is dying happy after having lived my life, and spending the next 8 years in a wheelchair, in a nursing home, staring off into space and drooling on myself, I have the damn steak.”

    I chuckled at that and do agree with you to some extent. Life is to be lived with as much gusto as we can muster. It’s not about preserving ourselves for longevity’s sake alone.

  • 86. James  |  November 16, 2013 at 9:29 pm

    Amen, Rutherford.

  • 87. Rutherford  |  November 16, 2013 at 9:32 pm

    Poolman, didn’t pool for vasectomy violate some medical ethics thingie?

  • 88. Rutherford  |  November 16, 2013 at 9:34 pm

    “My wife and I both have good longevity genes.”

    James you and your wife don’t need genes. You have incredible luck. Hell, even a fuckin’ train can’t stop you.

  • 89. dead rabbit  |  November 16, 2013 at 9:37 pm

    Rutherford….do you give the GOP any kudos over the fact that not one of them voted for Obamacare. Not one of them.

    Has there ever been such a partisan divide where one side was so correct?

    I’m going to research the Alien and Sedition Acts and the Volstead Act?

    Any other famous train wrecks I should look into?

  • 90. Rutherford  |  November 16, 2013 at 9:39 pm

    Muffy I assure you that if more conservatives offered your (and Alfie’s) assessment of Palin I would back off a bit. My public reaction to Palin is more reaction than action.

  • 91. dead rabbit  |  November 16, 2013 at 9:46 pm

    What really pisses me off about Palin is when she said we need to pass Obamacare before we find out what’s in it.

    I just can’t get over that comment considering how bad that bill hurt our country.

    Sara Palin voted for said bill too.

    I’m so pissed at her.

  • 92. Rutherford  |  November 16, 2013 at 9:46 pm

    Regarding Baldwin’s new show I love the restaurant booth decor.

    His interview with Winger did indeed reveal her to be a head-case.

    If you like a show about celeb navel gazing its a good show. Baldwin’s interview style reminds me a bit of Tom Snyder who became my hero in his CNBC talk show days. I was too young to appreciate his first late night gig on NBC.

  • 93. Rutherford  |  November 16, 2013 at 9:50 pm

    “I must say, i loathe entertainers that use their access to a microphone to spout political garbage, right or left.”

    And then you use Garafolo as your example. How ’bout Ted Nugent? Your comment “right or left” might have had more credibility if you’d cited him.

    BTW, you just described Sarah Palin. :lol:

  • 94. dead rabbit  |  November 16, 2013 at 9:53 pm

    I just read that Wilson vetoed the Volstead Act but it was overridden in Congress and made into law.

    This embarrassing….but I don’t know what that means.

    I wonder if any Democrats voted or it. The Wikipedia excerpt on it is weak.

  • 95. Rutherford  |  November 16, 2013 at 9:53 pm

    Noah I honestly don’t know how your pretzel logic doesn’t make your head explode.

    You want health care reform to follow a corporatist model and then you mock democrats for doing what you want.

  • 96. Rutherford  |  November 16, 2013 at 9:58 pm

    “How many times over have you purchased your vent equipment, Rutherford?”

    Good question Poolman. Ten or so years ago I received insurance assistance to pay the monthly rental on a C-PAP machine and I was finally informed that I owned the C-PAP. That hasn’t happened with the ventilator.

  • 97. El Tigre  |  November 16, 2013 at 10:02 pm

    Ted Nugent. Sure. How could I forget? :roll:

    Just turn off the damn MSNBC for a week, would ya?

  • 98. Rutherford  |  November 16, 2013 at 10:04 pm

    A completely tangential question primarily aimed at Poolman although I’d be interested in Tex and Parker’s opinion also.

    Do you guys believe 99% of what ails us can be treated with homeopathic remedies? As I watch these disgusting pharma ads on TV I’m beginning to wonder if we’re being scammed and the answer can be found in our back yard.

  • 99. muffy  |  November 16, 2013 at 10:05 pm

    “Anyone want to offer an opinion on Fox News trumpeting the original piece but keeping silent on its retraction?”

    CBS caved awfully fast after working for a year on the story.

    The list of what isn’t in dispute is long and relevant. That which is in dispute seems to boil down to the personal heroics of one of the men interviewed for the story. Those disputing his account are nameless sources from within the FBI aren’t they?

    Media Matterz is pushing the idea that the whole Benghazi story is a hoax and Kos, Huffington and the rest are falling in line of course, but none of them can be trusted to tell the truth.

    “Anyone curious why there hasn’t been a Dan Rather sacrificial lamb on this one yet?”

    Who should be sacrificed and for what? What happened to wait until the facts are in re: Benghazi?

  • 100. Rutherford  |  November 16, 2013 at 10:05 pm

    Let me elaborate a bit on that last question. Using admittedly simple logic since our maladies are natural why shouldn’t the cures be?

  • 101. muffy  |  November 16, 2013 at 10:21 pm

    “How ’bout Ted Nugent?”

    For every Ted Nugent there are a hundred Dixie Chick chicks.

  • 102. Alfie  |  November 16, 2013 at 10:21 pm

    @ dead rabbit because I’m a nerd….
    Volstead passed in the 66th 287-100. The 66th was made up along the following lines 192 D,240 R 1 Prohibitionist (wonder how he voted) and 1 F&L

  • 103. Rutherford  |  November 16, 2013 at 10:22 pm

    “I don’t understand your hang up with insurance companies Rutherford.”

    I don’t have any particular gripe with insurance companies inasmuch as for a steep monthly fee they have allowed me to live a fairly comfortable life with some expensive medical issues that I could otherwise not afford.

    However I do question whether or not, in the words of dick pic Anthony Wiener, they are an unnecessary middle-man. I also have no doubt they intentionally and unintentionally bamboozle some of their clients.

  • 104. Rutherford  |  November 16, 2013 at 10:24 pm

    “Rutherford why wait till 2016?”

    It’ll be a nice capstone to evaluating the Obama presidency and heck by then he may prove my theory wrong.

  • 105. Alfie  |  November 16, 2013 at 10:25 pm

    “natural” being a big sticky wicket.

  • 106. muffy  |  November 16, 2013 at 10:26 pm

    I’ll bet Ted Nugent couldn’t get elected US Senator.

  • 107. Alfie  |  November 16, 2013 at 10:26 pm

    …heck by then he may prove my theory wrong.

    Spoiler alert….****He won’t*****

  • 108. Rutherford  |  November 16, 2013 at 10:29 pm

    “that the emergency medical system in this country is failing because it is overwhelmed, and not insignificantly by people who keep trying to use the ER for shit that it shouldn’t be used for,”

    And here again you’ve lost me. Obamacare is supposed to solve that very problem by having the poor and “lower middle class” get their health care from the appropriate venues.

  • 109. Rutherford  |  November 16, 2013 at 10:31 pm

    “Medicare and Medicaid, its “one size fits none” approach fails to really “take care” of anyone”

    I’m under the impression that Medicare is very popular even among the Tea Party.

  • 110. Alfie  |  November 16, 2013 at 10:32 pm

    Rutherford the problem with your and BHO’s “hope” on this one is that the actual vehicle most likely in play,extended Medicaid,does not reverse the ER invasions.

  • 111. #Occupy Narcissism  |  November 16, 2013 at 10:35 pm

    Volstead passed in the 66th 287-100. The 66th was made up along the following lines 192 D,240 R 1 Prohibitionist (wonder how he voted) and 1 F&L

    Thanks Alfie. What was the F and L Party? I wonder what were the party lines on the vote? I’m sure I could find it easily.

    Don’t fret. I don’t teach American history.

  • 112. Alfie  |  November 16, 2013 at 10:42 pm

    I thought it was the Farmers and Labor. I checked with House historian site as opposed to having the knowledge readily available in the noggin’. I tied to find something hinting to a roll call but all I could find was total vote no breakdown. 47 members didn’t vote if my math is right though.
    @ Rutherford re ACA and ER’s a credible study that takes a state specific (CA) look that counters others weak attempt to say ERs aren’t seeing higher medicaid use.
    http://www.ucsf.edu/news/2013/09/108901/surging-medicaid-use-california’s-emergency-rooms

  • 113. poolman  |  November 16, 2013 at 11:01 pm

    Poolman, didn’t pool for vasectomy violate some medical ethics thingie?

    The doc’s pool was already built years before the arrangement. My partner agreed to some pool service. The exchange was professional, as both are/were professionals. You don’t need to exchange fiat to make it ethical.

  • 114. dead rabbit  |  November 16, 2013 at 11:56 pm

    “You don’t need to exchange fiat to make it ethical”

    Damn straight foolman. I love trading shit.

  • 115. poolman  |  November 17, 2013 at 12:14 am

    Rutherford, you need to get to the source of our ailments. Environment, diet, and exercise. You need to take in health to expect any outward health. We are spirit beings living in amazing organic machines. Like any machine, the better you understand it and provide for it, the better it will perform for the long haul.

    A person’s will or mind has the greatest impact on their own health. Yes, homeopathy has proved helpful and does have a place. Water is quantum coherent and our bodies are primarily water. But there’s a lot more to it. That basic and necessary ingredient for life is so inundated today with plastics and other chemicals that irritate our mortal bodies causing havoc with our immune systems. Another factor is maintaining a balanced pH.

    I believe there are cures in nature for just about all that ails us. Organic remedies cannot be patented and therefore the profit margins are nonexistent or very minimal so that all sponsored research is designed to mimic them synthetically and then sell their benefit to healthcare institutions and the public. Positioning and marketing has made these pill makers into a multi-billion dollar industry. 70 percent of Americans are on prescription drugs, with the average taking 8 different ones daily. I believe that was the statistic.

    It is against nature to profit from another’s ability to be healthy. I am not saying health care providers, life coaches, trainers, organic farmers, etc., shouldn’t be well compensated for their talents, only that they need to be able to provide the best for each individual without pressure to perform certain procedures or prescribe someone’s product unless they decide it actually is the very best. Scientific research is always suspect if the pill provider is paying for it. If someone isn’t providing a health service, why should they benefit from the cost?

    Beyond that, it has been proved these research and cure foundations have not spent the money they raise to find any cures as that would render them irrelevant eliminating future profits.

  • 116. dead rabbit  |  November 17, 2013 at 12:51 am

    Poolman, it was so awesome listening to Yanni live while reading your medical advice, brah.

  • 117. poolman  |  November 17, 2013 at 1:24 am

    No prob, maan. Happy to provide some awesomeness to your weekend.

  • 118. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2013 at 1:54 am

    “Quick. Tell us what exclusions were the ones that Obama relied on in outlawing the policies that resulted in NO FUCKING INSURANCE FOR 5 MILLION? ”

    I don’t know the answer. As I’ve already told you I don’t know exactly how Obama defines junk.

    I get the feeling that no matter what I say you will not be satisfied and will have some retort. All I can tell you is a policy seems junk to me if it doesn’t serve its purpose which is to protect you from exorbitant costs which might put you in the poorhouse.

  • 119. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2013 at 1:59 am

    “Some kind of tax deferred medical fund that can be inherited tax free.”

    I’m curious Rabbit. How does someone who can barely rub two pennies together put money into this savings account?

  • 120. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2013 at 2:17 am

    “This is not an analogy of any meaning. It is getting embarrassing having to address it. ”

    It is a meaningful analogy. To say it isn’t is to say that insurance isn’t a consumer product and that its quality can’t be measured. Are you saying that?

    “The problem to be solved is insufficient resources to deliver what you claim as a right. The point of your challenge. Saying “everyone ought to have something” is meaningless if it can’t be provided without creating more harm than good. .”

    Too early to tell if ACA will harm more than it will help. The challenge I’ve given here is how do you provide the vast majority of Americans affordable health care without causing more harm than good. You don’t have an answer. I’ve attempted to present a simplified version of ACA as a start with an acknowledgement that we can’t have a universal capitalistic solution.

    All you’ve done is pick at me about how to define junk policies. Hard to believe that YOU usually accuse ME of mindless semantic arguments.

  • 121. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2013 at 2:23 am

    “Has there ever been such a partisan divide where one side was so correct?”

    The partisan divide was a consequence of the times we live in, not any prescience on the part of the GOP.

  • 122. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2013 at 2:26 am

    “What really pisses me off about Palin is when she said we need to pass Obamacare before we find out what’s in it.”

    Funny. It was not Pelosi’s finest moment but it shined a light on just how many of these multi-thousand page bills don’t get thoroughly read by any of the pols who vote for them.

  • 123. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2013 at 2:27 am

    Or vote against them.

  • 124. dead rabbit  |  November 17, 2013 at 2:29 am

    By not owning a smart phone for starters. You, know, like the one you just posted from via wifi. Maybe turning the central air off.

    Cracks me up how many people have cable TV.

    It would be coming right out of the pay check. Building interest.

    As for the welfare class…..they’re already covered any ways. So…no problem there.

    It’d be a tough go for some. But you would be investing in the health of your future. Even the working poor could build up an a nice account after a generation or two. Remember, this thing would be gaining interest the whole time.

    My brother gave free flu shots at a homeless shelter the other day. Two things stood out. They all had smart phones. And they bitched because it was a shot and not the sniff.

    The working poor piss a lot of money away. I know. I was once one of them and still hang out with them.

  • 125. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2013 at 2:30 am

    “I just read that Wilson vetoed the Volstead Act but it was overridden in Congress and made into law.

    This embarrassing….but I don’t know what that means.”

    I don’t know what you mean when you say you don’t know what that means. A Presidential veto can be overridden by (I think) a two thirds vote of Congress.

  • 126. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2013 at 2:35 am

    “Ted Nugent. Sure. How could I forget? :roll:

    You’re not defending Nugent are you?

  • 127. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2013 at 2:38 am

    “Spoiler alert….****He won’t*****”
    :lol:

  • 128. dead rabbit  |  November 17, 2013 at 2:39 am

    “The partisan divide was a consequence of the times we live in” -R

    Maybe the partisan divide isn’t so bad after all?

    My God…..picture the destruction if there were no resistance to liberalism? The corruption. The waste. The cluster fucks.

    Dude…the proof is in the pudding.

    This is biggest failure of ideology played out real time foe everyone to see I’ve ever seen in my lifetime.

    You guys

  • 129. poolman  |  November 17, 2013 at 2:43 am

    $mart phone. lol. Tesla was wanting to give it away, damn commie.

  • 130. dead rabbit  |  November 17, 2013 at 2:47 am

    Oh……by the way….Nancy Pelosi’s comment about Obamacare isn’t a fucking learning experience.

    Its too late for that.

    Your heroes in the Democratic party should be jailed for fraud on this one.

    There is nowhere to hide this time, buddy.

  • 131. dead rabbit  |  November 17, 2013 at 2:50 am

    “A Presidential veto can be overridden by (I think) a two thirds vote of Congress.” -R

    Fuck. I knew that after I read it. I told you it was embarrassing.

  • 132. muffy  |  November 17, 2013 at 3:20 am

    “Muffy I assure you that if more conservatives offered your (and Alfie’s) assessment of Palin I would back off a bit. My public reaction to Palin is more reaction than action.”

    Reaction to what? To whom?

    Reaction to us not sitting around pulling the wings off of flies?

  • 133. muffy  |  November 17, 2013 at 3:47 am

    Voting against a bill you didn’t read makes more sense than voting FOR it at least.

  • 134. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2013 at 4:31 am

    By the way Woodrow Wilson was a fucking racist. He can suck my dick.

    P.S. I sure hope my dad wasn’t named after him. :-(

  • 135. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2013 at 4:33 am

    “Voting against a bill you didn’t read makes more sense than voting FOR it at least.”

    Definitely the safer option.

  • 136. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2013 at 4:35 am

    I blame the Wilson comment on my posting comments at 2:30 in the morning.

  • 137. Huck  |  November 17, 2013 at 4:45 am

    F&L Freedom & Liberty

  • 138. Huck  |  November 17, 2013 at 5:02 am

    “As I watch these disgusting pharma ads on TV I’m beginning to wonder if we’re being scammed and the answer can be found in our back yard.”

    I am currently working as a contractor for a medical diagnostics company that also does pharma. These mofos throw money away hand over fist. And I doubt they are losing any.

  • 139. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2013 at 6:02 am

    Mmmm contractor … whistle blower … are we witnessing the new Edward Snowden?
    :-)

  • 140. Raji  |  November 17, 2013 at 9:40 am

    Poolman, your #115 was an excellent post. Health care providers today have become “pharmaceutical dispensers”. What is not taken into account is that these drugs can have side effects but rather than deal with the cause, the symptom is treated which then creates a “house of cards”.

    Senior citizens especially are vulnerable to the escalating pyramid of drugs. Just to throw out a few examples, if one is using an inhaler for asthma some of the side effects can be high blood pressure and edema. The patient is then given drugs to control the side effects. A thiazide diuretic is counter indicated with some inhaler drugs and diminishes your potassium levels which can cause muscle cramps and restless leg syndrome which necessitates prescribing muscle relaxers. Another brief example, heart medication results in loss of hearing, a fact not usually told to the senior citizen. A lot of these drugs cause dizziness and loss of balance which can cause a senior to fall resulting in surgery, i.e. more drugs.

    It’s a vicious cycle but bottom line, health care providers must CYA and who suffers as a result?

    I don’t foresee any change in the system at least in my lifetime but hopefully our younger generation is getting a wake up call and with proper education will follow a different health lifestyle. Wishful thinking on my part, I’m sure.

    As to Rutherford’s question regarding how do we provide affordable health care, I don’t have an answer and just cannot opine but obviously the current situation is totally fucked up and we have been screwed!!!!!!!!! Talk about a “house of cards.

  • 141. parker  |  November 17, 2013 at 9:41 am

    Very interesting concepts, R. My wife and I hosted a young couple last night, the husband from UK, the wife from UK by way of Minnesota, US. She was 22, and had sought knee surgery in Hungary after a soccer injury in high school. (having no health insurance in US. She lived with her grand-mom, not parents.)

    After developing an infection, she returned to US, where they gave her pain pills for several months, as pus drained out her knee. (No health insurance?). She returned to UK, then married, and National Health Insurance paid for her antibiotics, but too late. Now her knee is locked up and she is facing a knee replacement at 22. They told her knee replacements last 7 years, and generally 3 replacements is the limit. 22 + 21 = 43yrs age – then permanent wheel chair.

    Obamacare is horrible, but possibly a little less horrible than America-care now extant.

  • 142. Raji  |  November 17, 2013 at 9:58 am

    I may not have an opinion on how to provide affordable health care, but if I were an elected official
    such as the POTUS and Congressman I would make it my duty to read and understand the ramifications of passing laws that effect the populace something Obama did not do nor frankly is he capable of doing. But isn’t that what competent advisors are for?

  • 143. El Tigre  |  November 17, 2013 at 11:15 am

    “All you’ve done is pick at me about how to define junk policies. Hard to believe that YOU usually accuse ME of mindless semantic arguments.”

    Okay, Homer.

    Then my answer is junk insurance for everyone. It’s affordable. Give them everyone a tax credit to pay for it.

    Ball’s in your court.

  • 144. El Tigre  |  November 17, 2013 at 11:18 am

    “To say it isn’t is to say that insurance isn’t a consumer product and that its quality can’t be measured. Are you saying that?”

    No I am not. Hence the comments by me that (1) it’s a consumer product and (2) one of the most highly regulated products ever.

    Your airbag/safety feature analogy is stupid.

  • 145. El Tigre  |  November 17, 2013 at 11:20 am

    “Too early to tell if ACA will harm more than it will help. The challenge I’ve given here is how do you provide the vast majority of Americans affordable health care without causing more harm than good.”

    Then what are you trying to fix? :roll:

  • 146. #Occupy Narcissism  |  November 17, 2013 at 11:34 am

    Hucking…I was wondering where you were lately.

  • 147. Alfie  |  November 17, 2013 at 11:48 am

    @136 Yeah hating on one of the three pillars of your political philosophy is harsh to say the least.
    Woody,Teddy and Frankie would be shocked to say the least

  • 148. Alfie  |  November 17, 2013 at 11:57 am

    The ignorance of the masses YEA!!!!
    The pharmaceuticals are what they are,you won’t get much of an argument from me. The root of many of our health issues are more about the individual though than they are a grand scheme by powers who put stuff in your food,immunizations or from planes overhead.

    Pharmas success as witnessed by the ED( viagra etc.) drugs and possibly in play now with the recent statins vs cholesterol press release all speak to We The People hearing what we want from a salesman.
    Rx pushing physicians get a bad rap or at least a worse one than they deserve. We The People want them to do something so the write a script since fighting with Johnny Co-Pay is about as fulfilling as smashing ones head up against the exam room wall. The irony is it is often the Big Bad Insurance company that tries to put the breaks on prescription overload.
    The entire system is out of kilter and we need to get it right sooner or later or else

  • 149. Alfie  |  November 17, 2013 at 12:08 pm

    @ Raji 140 what your examples also speak to is how the elderly cost money. I’m not advocating euthanizing them but it is ironic that the longer lifespans brought forth by advances have had such an unintended consequence.

  • 150. #Occupy Narcissism  |  November 17, 2013 at 12:17 pm

    “The irony is it is often the Big Bad Insurance company that tries to put the breaks on prescription overload.” -Alfie

    That is a good point.

  • 151. Alfie  |  November 17, 2013 at 12:20 pm

    To the room and especially Rutherford. Heres something that I imagine will or has had some legs in the Right side media but here it is straight from the source:
    http://www.bowiestate.edu/campus-life/henry-wise-wellness-center/student-health-insurance-plan-/
    PLEASE READ THIS AND LET IT SOAK IN I AM LITERALLY BEGGING YOU.
    This captures everything in so many ways from so many angles.
    Bowie is a HBI
    Colleges are a business
    Students can go on parents coverage? Can these students? Really?
    $1800/yr. that is supposed to be an outrage?
    An institution opts but the student (individual) HAS AN OBLIGATION!!!

  • 152. James  |  November 17, 2013 at 12:50 pm

    Yes, alfie, it is an outrage.

    Our daughter had a similar talk with her boss. Her insurance rate will rise over $400 a month and after the business exclusion ends, our daughter will likely lose her insurance. So will her bosses.

    One of her co- workers has a baby, and she will also pay more for her insurance. With no parents who can baby sit as we do, she will pay $8,000 for good day care. Her total expenditures for insurance and day care will be over $12,000 per year.

    The experience of millions like her, including the college students carries a multiplier effect as money is drained from the private economy. I’m beginning to wonder if the AFC law is more about redistribution of income and less about insurance.

  • 153. James  |  November 17, 2013 at 12:56 pm

    I don’t know much about the effects of homeopathic medicine. Google must have links to research.

    I used to wear glasses, but I noticed that when I didn’t wear them for a day or so, my eyesight was less fuzzy than when I removed them in the evening. I quit wearing glasses, and concentrated on focus.

    I haven’t needed glasses for thirty years.

    Social Security was intended to make life easier for the last few years of life. As we know, life spans have increased and may continue to do so. The original model is failing. What if there is no governmental solution?

  • 154. muffy  |  November 17, 2013 at 1:28 pm

    “I say, my blood pressure goes up every time they say that they’re protecting us from substandard health insurance plans, because there is nothing to support what they’re saying. I have talked about how I am losing my health insurance. I’m having, if I want to keep the same health insurance, it’s going to cost twice as much. There’s nothing substandard about my plan. All of the things they say that are not in my plan are in my plan, all of the things they have listed. There’s no explanation for the doubling of my premiums other than the fact that it’s subsidizing other people.

    They need to be honest about that, that that’s the reason they don’t want to change it. It’s because they’re basically taking the people who are responsible enough to get health insurance in the individual market and asking them to subsidize other people. So they’re taking young healthy people and asking them to subsidize other people.” -Kirsten Powers

  • 155. El Tigre  |  November 17, 2013 at 2:04 pm

    Muffy, that’s just picking and semantics. What’s your solution? :roll:

  • 156. El Tigre  |  November 17, 2013 at 2:06 pm

    The question I have is can this situation be un-fucked?

    R call’s it “a start.”

    Most others perhaps “an end.”

    The damage is incredible.

  • 157. poolman  |  November 17, 2013 at 2:49 pm

  • 158. poolman  |  November 17, 2013 at 3:14 pm

    Her total expenditures for insurance and day care will be over $12,000 per year.

    And she’ll have commuter costs and whatever other clothing, etc expenses her job requires. She’d be better off farming. Who’s your up and coming farm workers? My wife is in full garden mode and we’re on rental property. lol.

  • 159. muffy  |  November 17, 2013 at 3:25 pm

    “What’s your solution?”

    Individual responsibility in health care.

    1) Deregulate the industry
    2) Eliminate government restrictions and all subsidies
    3) Abolish Medicare and Medicaid. Incrementally but not glacially.

    “The question I have is can this situation be un-fucked?”

    No. The weeds have taken over the garden. Goodnight.

  • 160. muffy  |  November 17, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    Tigre I’m reminded of the scene in Liar Liar where the same criminal keeps calling Fletcher (Carrey) and asking for his legal advice and finally Fletcher grabs the phone and yells “STOP BREAKING THE LAW ASSHOLE!”

  • 161. James  |  November 17, 2013 at 4:43 pm

    158 You’re right, Poolman. We have rented our land to a grateful neighbor.

    Our garden is finished for the year. It was 8 degrees after a half inch of snow on Veterans Day. That ruined the unpicked apples and tomato plants I had kept going under a tarp. It was a pretty good year. Tomatoes and apples remain in our refrigerator.

    We are about to leave for Omaha again.

    What does your wife do with gardening on this date? Can she double crop vegetables?

    Muffy may be right.

  • 162. Huck  |  November 17, 2013 at 5:11 pm

    This is the way King Obama plays.

    “A day after he questioned President Obama’s decision to unwind a major tenet of the health-care law and said the nation’s capital might not go along, D.C. insurance commissioner William P. White was fired.”

    It isn’t the first time he’s done this sort of thing, either. Nor is it the 2nd.

    The Chicago way.

  • 163. poolman  |  November 17, 2013 at 5:28 pm

    Fire all but the yes men. That’s proof it ain’t wise counsel he’s seeking.

  • 164. El Tigre  |  November 17, 2013 at 5:35 pm

    I tend to agree Muffy. The “deregulation” part I am skeptical about depending on the scope you are suggesting. Coverage and payout regulation in such a complex industry/contractual relationship is, in my view, not entirely undesirable. However, not at the federal level and not where the underlying purpose is to control the market for the reallocation premiums.

    The bottom line is we need market competition to contain costs — and astonishing thing to guys like R that think that is accomplished through corporate captivity and government regulation — the antithesis of the mechanisms they envision.

    It’s also why R can’t seem to get his head around the issue I raised concerning the definition of “junk policies” when the very first criterion of his challenge is “quality of health insurance” — some kind of aspiration that resides in the foggy limits of a liberal’s belief in “fairness” — its significance and meaning entirely based on who proposes it.

  • 165. El Tigre  |  November 17, 2013 at 5:38 pm

    “the antithesis of the mechanisms that reach the desired result.”

  • 166. poolman  |  November 17, 2013 at 5:55 pm

    What does your wife do with gardening on this date? Can she double crop vegetables?

    Aside from saplings in buckets various flowers, she has basil, okra, parsley, cilantro, rosemary, bell peppers, green chiles, jalapenos, tomatoes, carrots, eggplant, arugula, kale, spinach, dill, swiss chard, squash, green beans, beats, cucumber, chives, garlic, onions, strawberries, blueberries. I’m probably forgetting some. We have 2 growing seasons and some plants produce for years. She has some tomato and chile plants that moved here with us.

  • 167. #Occupy Narcissism  |  November 17, 2013 at 6:49 pm

    Death spiral coming. Premiums haven’t even begun to rock yet. And with it the death spiral of liberalism. America either never trusts a liberal scheme again or we go full blown socialist.

    This is unreal.

    Rutherford…think about the damage a Democratic President coupled with a Democratic Congress did to us all!

    You need to fucking pay, dude. All you liberals do.

    Grab a pitchfork and grab a torch and find the nearest liberal and…..uh….kindly explain to them how they hurt us all.

    All of it is coming true like we said. All of it.

    I get waves of a “holy shit” emotion.

    Never has liberalism been exposed for what it really is in front of everyone with the emperor butt ass naked as he is today.

    Liberalism is dead. Gone with the Whigs. Either it morphs into socialism without excuse or we wake up. But nobody…..and I mean nobody….will ever trust the passive aggressive brand of socialism that is liberalism.

  • 168. eltigre100  |  November 17, 2013 at 7:29 pm

    I hear you DR. The collective stupidity and naivety is just infuriating. Knowing the harm was so fucking predictable and drowned out by the dependent class amid childish chants of “we’re what we’ve been waiting for” makes me want to start throwing punches.

  • 169. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2013 at 7:30 pm

    To Raji and Poolman you know there is a problem when there are more pharma sales reps in the doctors waiting room than patients.

    Pharma ads on TV truly sicken me. And lately so many of them basically say “this will help you if it doesn’t kill you first … ask your doctor about …”

  • 170. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2013 at 7:45 pm

    “Muffy, that’s just picking and semantics. What’s your solution? :roll:

    That was stupid. Instead of Muffy playing some cat and mouse game with me about definitions she posted a quote from someone saying that her policy was NOT junk and had everything she needed but is getting replaced anyway at added cost to her. So Muffy isn’t picking. She’s offering evidence. Better than you Counselor.

    The skeptic in me would like to know Miss Powers political affiliation but thanks Muffy for addressing the issue.

  • 171. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2013 at 7:52 pm

    “Individual responsibility in health care.”

    Muffy don’t we need to do something about health care costs?

    If I believed that everyone could afford to pay their own health care costs I’d agree with you. Most folks buy virtually every product and service on their own (if we discount the use of credit cards) but medical expenses seem special to me because they are SO inflated.

  • 172. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2013 at 7:54 pm

    “Tigre I’m reminded of the scene in Liar Liar where the same criminal keeps calling Fletcher (Carrey) and asking for his legal advice and finally Fletcher grabs the phone and yells “STOP BREAKING THE LAW ASSHOLE!””

    So what’s the answer here?

    Stop getting sick asshole!

  • 173. eltigre100  |  November 17, 2013 at 7:58 pm

    It’s premise blog host. I adked a straight up question you have yet to answer. Muff’s “evidence” doesn ‘t answer the wuestion either.

    Give it a rest. My question was bona fide. Your answer is to just repeat shit without knowing what it means or what you mean. Call it picking all you want. You don ‘t know a junk policy is so here’s a hint: any policy that if msitained interferes with the subsidizing of The shit thrust on us by your heroes. Good luck “fixing it” whatever the fuck that means since your tactic is to leave us guessing at your meaning.

  • 174. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2013 at 8:00 pm

    “its significance and meaning entirely based on who proposes it.”

    Tigre whenever we tackle any problem we must define our terms and often those definitions don’t satisfy all parties.

    Yes even at the initial definition phase there are already “winners” and “losers”.

  • 175. eltigre100  |  November 17, 2013 at 8:01 pm

    ” it’s your premise”

    “asked a”

    Damn phone typing is a bitch.

  • 176. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2013 at 8:09 pm

    “Liberalism is dead. Gone with the Whigs.”

    LOL OMFG!!!!

    I started reading Rabbits latest lecture and said to myself “well at least he hasn’t mentioned the Whigs” and then BLAMMO!

    When I make Whig references I get ridicule yet Rabbit feels emboldened to make the same reference.

    Here’s my prediction Rabbit. The Tea Party will go the way of the Whigs long before liberalism does. You know why? Because for all its faults liberalism appeals to our better angels and optimistic decent charitable Americans will NEVER turn their backs on that.

  • 177. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2013 at 8:11 pm

    “the dependent class ”

    WTF is that, Mitt Romney?

  • 178. eltigre100  |  November 17, 2013 at 8:11 pm

    Obama defined whst junk is: whatever he says it is whenever he says it.

  • 179. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2013 at 8:16 pm

    “Good luck “fixing it” whatever the fuck that means since your tactic is to leave us guessing at your meaning.”

    I have never in all my years “known” someone so intelligent who has so much trouble with the English language or feigns it to be a pain in the ass.

    I’ve taken a couple of stabs at satisfying your request for a definition and I did it in the spirit of your asking an honest question. I suspect you were simply trying to score points.

  • 180. eltigre100  |  November 17, 2013 at 8:19 pm

    He was right. It’s why you’re in the box you’re in, Pelosi.

  • 181. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2013 at 8:21 pm

    “Obama defined whst junk is: whatever he says it is whenever he says it.”

    And if that is the case then shame on him. That’s why I told you “I DON’T KNOW HOW HE DEFINES IT.”

    I defined it as a policy that doesn’t give you the help you thought you were going to get when you need it.

  • 182. eltigre100  |  November 17, 2013 at 8:26 pm

    R, you’re just avoiding an obvious question. It came right iut of the gate. You say you don’t wsnt universal coverage and you don’t want exclusions that bankrupt. Anything that excludes what you get can bankrupt.

    Other than that, i am in favor of no exclusions without universal coverage.

  • 183. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2013 at 8:36 pm

    “You say you don’t wsnt universal coverage and you don’t want exclusions that bankrupt. Anything that excludes what you get can bankrupt.”

    Maybe we’re getting somewhere. If that was your point, that for every subscriber there is an exclusion that could bankrupt him and therefore EVERY policy is potentially a junk policy, then I FINALLY get your point.

    For the record I DO want universal coverage but I do not believe it is possible under capitalism. To provide universal coverage there must be some socialist element, i.e. wealth redistribution.

  • 184. dead rabbit  |  November 17, 2013 at 9:03 pm

    The “Whigs” jab was in jest. Sort of.

    I seriously believe Obamacare to be so disastrous that liberalism will forever be changed. Schemes in which the modus operandi of wealth redistribution is hidden or sneaky are over. Nobody will ever trust a liberal again. That being said, fitting in with “the Obamacare was engineered to fail” conspiracy, a battered America may simply turn to socialism with out apology, without smokescreens. There is enough of the dependent class to make it happen. And they are growing every day. The Rubicon has been crossed. We commit suicide by socialism or stand up to it. But liberalism, as we’ve known it up to this point, is over. I really do believe its that epic.

  • 185. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2013 at 9:21 pm

    For many years there has been socialism in our system.

    I think we are reaching a breaking point in our society where we struggle with how to make capitalism and democracy coexist.

    Our problems have less to do with liberal vs conservative than they have to do with democracy vs plutocracy. Or as I saw it referred to today: dollarocracy.

  • 186. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2013 at 9:23 pm

    James, at best Sarah Palin bats .500 in backing GOP candidates. If I were a GOP candidate I wouldn’t want her anywhere near me.

  • 187. muffy  |  November 17, 2013 at 9:38 pm

    ”Muffy don’t we need to do something about health care costs?”

    Yea. What we don’t need to do is make everything worse, which is what Obama, Pelosi, and Reid delivered. And they lied to accomplish it. Obama’s still lying. Didn’t he just come out and say insurance companies no longer have to cancel policies because the administration has changed the rules? EXCUSE ME?

    Start by recognizing that health care is a business. (You might also recognize that the precious government is too by the way and stop condemning the entrepreneur and the risk taker and the guy that gets up at 4:30 in the morning every day for 40 years – and instead kick the bloated bureaucrat out of the hot tub for a change.)

    I’ve got a few questions of my own.

    Why is it so damn expensive for the health care personnel to do business? Where does all the money for the licensing of health care facilities, schools, and personnel go to? Why don’t the reputations and prices for the services of health care providers form the basis for the consumer making more discriminating choices?

    Why doesn’t homeowner’s insurance cover earthquakes or floods? Why is there the illusion of a national standard for health insurance but not homeowner’s insurance policies that don’t cover earthquakes and floods? Why don’t life insurance policies pay in the event of suicide?

  • 188. dead rabbit  |  November 17, 2013 at 9:40 pm

    http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/11/16/potentially-fatal-knockout-game-targeting-strangers-may-be-spreading-to-d-c/

    I decided to get my CCW just for hunting and weapon transport reasons. (Haven’t got it yet) However, I’m game for the “knock out game” all the rage by the savages.

    I’m like 3 and 8 in fights. But my solid jaw is legendary. So they try to knock me out and if they fail they see the results of a 454 casull round. I have a feeling these evil attacks on innocent people would stop pretty quick.

  • 189. muffy  |  November 17, 2013 at 9:47 pm

    I’ll turn it around on you, R – don’t we need to do something about the cost of a bloated government?

    We can abolish the IRS, the DHS, the NSA, the TSA, the Dept of Education, HUD *gasp* – and when people complain about all the jobs lost we can just shrug and say “It’s a start.”

  • 190. dead rabbit  |  November 17, 2013 at 9:49 pm

    Case in point to what I was saying earlier:

    “Our problems have less to do with liberal vs conservative than they have to do with democracy vs plutocracy. Or as I saw it referred to today: dollarocracy.” R

    That isn’t traditional liberal rhetoric. That is revolutionary socialism stuff.

    Liberals always purported that there was room for socialism at the peripheral of a healthy capitalist democracy. I think you will see less of that now.

    We thought we were partisan before? Ha. Shit is about to get crazy.

  • 191. muffy  |  November 17, 2013 at 10:36 pm

    #180 cont…and after pushing that “extreme” agenda through with lies and politically-favorable deals to Republicans in office and without the support of a single Democrat – the Republicans then pass a bill ending Medicare and Medicaid, deregulating the health care industry, eliminating the licensing requirements of all health care facilities and personnel, ending government restrictions and all subsidies, and instituting a flat tax for everyone.

    Thoughts?

  • 192. muffy  |  November 17, 2013 at 10:37 pm

    I mean #189 cont….

  • 193. El Tigre  |  November 17, 2013 at 10:38 pm

    “Maybe we’re getting somewhere. If that was your point, that for every subscriber there is an exclusion that could bankrupt him and therefore EVERY policy is potentially a junk policy, then I FINALLY get your point.”

    Oh my Lord. . .

    Me @ 64:

    “Are any exclusions whatsoever what constitutes “junk” in your opinion? If you can think of one exclusion, the answer is always “that’s the one that’ll bankrupt you.”

    Me @ 6 too:

    “Also, is the “objective” to reduce the cost of the delivery of medical services or just competitive pricing of policies with something short of universal coverage?”

    *pounds head on table*

  • 194. Alfie  |  November 17, 2013 at 10:42 pm

    @Rutherford no less than the pair of Brooks and Shields discussed on PBS that which dead rabbit brings up. A substantial failure of ACA equals an inability for any future liberal progressive grand scheme to launch. I don’t think rabbit or the PBS guys are off base at all.
    From a historical perspective every “advancement” needed a preceding success. Quite simply a precedent in legal terms. Social Security gets you Medicare for example. They should not be viewed by either political side though as stepping stones. Proof of that is how much FDR was denied and how much was not to be brought up in polite discussions for years to come.
    I think it safe to say in conjunction to those points I raised in my own recent post on the ACA that this really does set a bar over a pit for your side.

  • 195. muffy  |  November 17, 2013 at 11:09 pm

    “So what’s the answer here?

    Stop getting sick asshole!

    No, more along the lines of stop creating – or in this case worsening – a problem then demanding the solution.

  • 196. poolman  |  November 18, 2013 at 12:46 am

    The problem stems from the expectation of others to take care of you. It’s your parents responsibility until you’re an adult. Then you need to take full responsibility for everything in your life. If you farm something out, you’d better be sure it represents your best interest. You know what often happens when you assume anything.

    Somehow we got hoodwinked into the state providing services for us, usually by drumming fear or compassion. Now the monster has taken on a life of its own and will do everything it can to survive. It can’t be rehabilitated and has a ferocious appetite.

  • 197. Huck  |  November 18, 2013 at 12:46 am

    “I decided to get my CCW just for hunting and weapon transport reasons. (Haven’t got it yet) However, I’m game for the “knock out game” all the rage by the savages.”

    I’ll bet you’re ready for this game, too.

    “If a man publicly proclaims his intention to come into your home, point a weapon at your wife and children, and steal everything you have when a certain set of criteria are met, are you required to wait for him to act before before defending yourself?

    “That’s one of many questions raised by the most recent episode of Doomsday Preppers and the introduction of Tyler Smith.

    “Smith, 29, runs a Buckley, WA-based group that calls themselves “Spartan Survival.” In the event of a disaster, Smith and his merry band intend to attack other citizens and take what they need to survive by brute force.

    ““We’re not in it to stockpile. We’re in it to take what you have and there’s nothing you can do to stop us,” Tyler Smith says. “We are your worst nightmare, and we are coming.””

  • 198. Noah  |  November 18, 2013 at 2:48 am

    Hey look R, A whittle video you might actually like.

  • 199. Rutherford  |  November 18, 2013 at 7:36 am

    Hey Tigre are you a member of the National Lawyers Guild?

    How ’bout you BiC?

  • 200. El Tigre  |  November 18, 2013 at 8:46 am

    Nope.

    Not the ABA either.

  • 201. El Tigre  |  November 18, 2013 at 8:47 am

    Lollipop Guild, yes.

  • 202. parker  |  November 18, 2013 at 9:19 am

    “If I believed that everyone could afford to pay their own health care costs I’d agree with you. Most folks buy virtually every product and service on their own (if we discount the use of credit cards) but medical expenses seem special to me because they are SO inflated.”

    Rutherford, this is what I just don’t get about you – everybody DOES pay for their own health care costs. They can pay via their own pocketbook directly or via their own pocketbook through taxes, but they pay. The government produces NOTHING; anything it pays for, it does so through the money it took from its citizens by force.

    And the reason medical costs are so inflated in the first place is because the government got in the system forty years ago. Basic rules of economics are inviloate – when a big player starts dumping money in a system – especially a big player who is spending somebody else’s money – so has no incentive to bargain shop – prices go up.

    So now they want to fix the problem with MORE government spending. Good plan.

  • 203. parker  |  November 18, 2013 at 10:04 am

    The Whittle video is very clever, but a little (very little) thinking shows that the analogy fails on every level.

    In point of fact, it is the OLD conservatives – reasonable, thoughtful adults who understand that their party’s business does not extend into their constituents’ personal lives – who represent the “old” Coke. It is the NEW, previously irrelevant, reactionary far-right-ies who are New Coke. That intellectual powerhouse, Sarah Palin, would be a good example.

    The correct analogy for the NEW Coke would be taking all the good things in Old Coke and tripling them – triple caffeine, triple sugar, triple caramel – and then calling it New Coke. In other words, right-wing-nut politics.

    Anybody want to drink that? If I were an American citizen, I wouldn’t.

    And very few others do, either.

  • 204. Noah  |  November 18, 2013 at 12:41 pm

    Conservative values have been around a long while. They are not new concepts. For me Reagan personified what it meant to be a Conservative by almost every measure. The current crop of Republicans have shifted far enough left (for political survival) that I can no longer affiliate myself with them. When they get control, they forget who they are and what we sent them to do. The Tea party is not a new radical movement, rather they are a reminder to the new coke Republicans that there are consequences for abandoning their old coke values. So you see the analogy works perfectly on every level.

  • 205. parker  |  November 18, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    “So you see the analogy works perfectly on every level.”

    So I see it is. They’ve lost every election that counts.

    Posse Member: Let’s go, he ain’t hittin’ nothin’!
    Sheriff Langston: You idiot, he’s hit everything he’s aimed at!
    Posse Member: Well, they ain’t out of our jurisdiction ’til they reach the flattop!
    Sheriff Langston: [rising in his saddle, until his hat is shot off] Today, my jurisdiction ends here.
    ~~~ Silverado

    Time to end the wing-nuts’ jurisdiction at the bedroom door.

  • 206. Noah  |  November 18, 2013 at 2:30 pm

    So I see it is. They’ve lost every election that counts.

    How is that relevant to the point that the analogy works?

  • 207. muffy  |  November 18, 2013 at 2:41 pm

    #191 cont….Ending all funding to PBS and the National Endowment for the Arts and Planned Parenthood. Then pass a bill to reform public sector unions and finally criminalize lobbying or else shut the whole lobbying machine down.

    I like utopian planning. What about voting rights for taxpayers only? :)

  • 208. muffy  |  November 18, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    Rutherford the current affordability and availability of contraceptives and the big propaganda push to have them paid for entirely by the taxpayer and entirely free to the partaker (because to expect otherwise means you must hate women, of course) flies in the face of you just wanting to cover people who can’t afford the high cost of medical expenses.

    How long before the rather affordable price of contraceptives starts to skyrocket?

  • 210. James  |  November 18, 2013 at 4:36 pm

    207 Muffy, I’ve thought the same thing. I would add property owners too.

  • 211. James  |  November 18, 2013 at 4:39 pm

    202 Parker, I think your comment also applies to a college education.

  • 212. James  |  November 18, 2013 at 4:45 pm

    Huck a squadron officer at Ellsworth AFB lived in Rapid City. Late at night, he heard someone trying to break down his front door He took his 30.06, hid behind his couch and waited. The would be burgler gave up and left.

    “Would you have shot?”, we asked. “Twice. Then, I would have dragged him inside.”

  • 213. Rutherford  |  November 18, 2013 at 5:24 pm

    For once today I must sympathize with my right wing brothers and sisters.

    Alec Baldwin insults some unknown gay guy and MSNBC suspends him for two weeks.

    Martin Bashir gives the most vile insult to Sarah Palin and he gets a slap on the wrist and has to issue a five minute mea culpa on his show. No suspension, no pain to his pocket book.

    Even this Sarah-hater must admit it just ain’t right.

  • 214. Rutherford  |  November 18, 2013 at 5:35 pm

    “*pounds head on table*”

    Tigre what can I say? Sometimes it’s hard for me to find your point through all the snark. :-)

  • 215. Rutherford  |  November 18, 2013 at 5:48 pm

    This account comes from my wife:

    Wife and daughter are watching Hardball and Chris Matthews starts blaming conservative opposition to Obama on racism.

    To which my daughter yells “IT’S NOT RACISM!!!” Then she demands that my wife change the channel.

    ROTFLMAO ok which of you motherfuckers has been getting to my kid when I’m not watching?

  • 216. Rutherford  |  November 18, 2013 at 5:52 pm

    “Lollipop Guild, yes.”

    LOL That was actually sweet. You must be in a good mood today.

  • 217. Rutherford  |  November 18, 2013 at 6:00 pm

    Muffy funny you should bring up contraception. I have NEVER understood why women who are not poor should be getting free birth control. Never made any sense to me.

  • 218. Rutherford  |  November 18, 2013 at 6:08 pm

    “Would you have shot?”, we asked. “Twice. Then, I would have dragged him inside.”

    James sadly there is a case in Dearborn MI where a man mistook a woman in distress for a burglar and shot her in the face with his shotgun through a closed screen door.

    This bravado about shoot first, ask questions later needs to be put in check.

  • 219. dead rabbit  |  November 18, 2013 at 6:18 pm

    Yeah…its scary when you live in the city and have black people fucking with your house at 2 am.

    Just too high of a possibility that a black person is dangerous.

    Ultimately, dude will spend the rest of his life in jail. While it seems fair, I feel sorry for him. That black chick was drunk as a skunk and acting crazy.

    Still….you can’t just shoot someone on the outside of your door. As creeped out as you might be, that’s not the way it works.

    Sad situation.

  • 220. Raji  |  November 18, 2013 at 6:23 pm

    @ Raji 140 “what your examples also speak to is how the elderly cost money. I’m not advocating euthanizing them but it is ironic that the longer lifespans brought forth by advances have had such an unintended consequence.”

    Yes, Alfie I agree but what a can of worms you just opened. Longevity now prevails over quality of life due to advances in medicine. As long as medicine can help promote an active healthy lifestyle then the cost is worth while and if not in my opinion we need to look at assisted suicide. We may not have had anything to say about our birth but we dang well ought to be able to make a decision about our death.

    Pet owners today are also prolonging the life of their pet regardless of quality of life. The spill over mindset from pharmaceutical treatments for humans to treatment of pets is outrageous.

  • 221. Rutherford  |  November 18, 2013 at 6:46 pm

    “Just too high of a possibility that a black person is dangerous. ”

    That must be truer in your neck of the woods than elsewhere because the racial angle on this case has gotten COMPARATIVELY little play.

  • 222. muffy  |  November 18, 2013 at 6:49 pm

    @#215 (your little conservative) -

    Unless daughter starts asking for backstraps for supper you probably needn’t worry too much.

    http://outdoorchannel.com/ted-nugent-spirit-of-the-wild

  • 223. Rutherford  |  November 18, 2013 at 6:57 pm

    The other lesson to be learned here is drunk, stoned or otherwise you just can’t knock on a random door anymore seeking help cos you just don’t know who’s behind the door.

    Now that I work night shift I’m more sensitive to the safety of my customers. A couple of weeks ago one of my coaches suggested that a stranded woman was safe because she was in a residential neighborhood and could knock on a door for shelter till we got there. I’m thinking “are you fucking crazy? I wouldn’t knock on some strangers door in the middle of the night unless my life literally depended on it.”

    I forget the name of the case but in the early 60′s a woman got beaten to death while her neighbors ignored her cries for help (was her name Genovese?). That case marked the end of the era of the good neighbor. Now it’s trust no one.
    :-(

  • 224. Rutherford  |  November 18, 2013 at 7:02 pm

    “Pet owners today are also prolonging the life of their pet regardless of quality of life.”

    Hoping there is a pet God I pray every day that my cats die suddenly of natural causes. I simply can’t bear the thought of putting either of them to sleep. I’ve even got CATastrophic health insurance on the older one cos I couldn’t look my kid in the face and tell her Daddy couldn’t afford to save Ollie.

  • 225. Rutherford  |  November 18, 2013 at 7:05 pm

    As a follow up, I never considered myself a pet guy. A year ago when Ollie got sick and I thought I might lose him I sat there and petted him and cried my eyes out. In fact I couldn’t stop crying till I went to bed. A grown ass man brought to mush by an animal. In retrospect I really had to wonder about my sanity.

  • 226. parker  |  November 18, 2013 at 7:17 pm

    Her name was Kitty Genovese.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese

    My god. It still makes people want to cry.

  • 227. El Tigre  |  November 18, 2013 at 7:24 pm

    “I’ve even got CATastrophic health insurance. . .”

    Might want to check and see whether Obama caused that to be cancelled.

  • 228. Raji  |  November 18, 2013 at 8:06 pm

    R@225 If an animal can turn a “grown ass man” into mush, then he doesn’t have to worry about his sanity. I probably love four legged creatures much more than two legged ones and am grateful that as a result of their being part of my life I can be a part of helping them cross the rainbow bridge.

  • 229. Tex Taylor  |  November 18, 2013 at 8:25 pm

    I probably love four legged creatures much more than two legged ones and am grateful that as a result of their being part of my life I can be a part of helping them cross the rainbow bridge.

    Other than my wife, kids and perhaps my mother on her good days, I’m right there with you, Raji.

    Nothing is better than the love of a good dog – completely unconditional. When mine was killed in 2010 before my eyes when he ran after a squirrel and was hit right in front of my house, I mourned for months. And to this day, I think of Rutherford, who for some reason was able to touch me with some kind words – of which I will always be grateful. Not a day goes by that I don’t think about Sammy. Buried my two labs in 2008 and 2009. That was a rough three years.

    Rutherford, euthanizing your pets is cheap and very peaceful. A massive dose of anesthesia puts them to sleep and they never wake up. You need to be there with them. I promise you it will not bring you any long-term pain, and after a time will be glad you went.

    I’m telling you on that day, you should go – it will be the last loving act you ever do for a good friend. I wanted to be the last thing my wonderful friends ever saw as I held them – and I was.

  • 230. El Tigre  |  November 18, 2013 at 9:10 pm

    “That was actually sweet. You must be in a good mood today.”

    I was until you gayed me out. :lol:

  • 231. El Tigre  |  November 18, 2013 at 9:25 pm

    Fucking Zimmerman again?

    Who knew he has jungle fever?

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/18/justice/florida-george-zimmerman-arrest/

  • 232. Rutherford  |  November 18, 2013 at 9:42 pm

    “Might want to check and see whether Obama caused that to be cancelled.”

    Considering how many people believe that pet insurance is by definition “junk” insurance you might have a point there.

  • 233. muffy  |  November 18, 2013 at 9:44 pm

    Have you guys seen the knock out game? Rabbit mentions it earlier – I didn’t know what he was talking about. I just saw a bunch of them and evidently one person was killed.

    Those animals. Obama needs to speak up.

  • 234. Rutherford  |  November 18, 2013 at 9:45 pm

    At least it wasn’t me to bring up old Georgie in this thread. :-)

  • 235. muffy  |  November 18, 2013 at 10:54 pm

    It’s good to see you Tex.

  • 236. #Occupy Narcissism  |  November 18, 2013 at 10:55 pm

    I feel like a sociopath. I woke up one day and decided my dogs, one of who were not great with our baby (if not outright dangerous) had to go.

    I faked being sad at the vet when they made me hold him as they killed him. I pulled out with a huge smile on my face.

    The stress in my household after offing one dog and finding a home for the other two decreased immensely and immediately. We didn’t even realize just how horrible those dogs were until they were gone (my wife would adopt dogs during our miscarriage era).

    I have no urge to ever own a dog again and fake like I enjoy people’s dogs when I’m really annoyed by them.

  • 237. Rutherford  |  November 18, 2013 at 11:59 pm

    Baby vs dog, baby wins hands down. If either of my cats started attacking us the sentimentality would fly out the window and they’d meet their maker with lightening speed.

  • 238. Tex Taylor  |  November 19, 2013 at 1:56 am

    Thank you, Muffy. Been busy around the house. For some unknown reason, much to my wife’s chagrin though she’s too nice to ever nag about it (I can just tell), I decided to install a hardwood floor in a couple of the bedrooms – with the promise they would be done long before Christmas so beds would be available. :smile:

  • 239. an800lbgorilla  |  November 19, 2013 at 7:34 am

    Dude, it should take a day, maybe two. You need a month- and a half? You whittling the floors from trees?

  • 240. an800lbgorilla  |  November 19, 2013 at 7:35 am

  • 241. an800lbgorilla  |  November 19, 2013 at 7:36 am

  • 242. an800lbgorilla  |  November 19, 2013 at 8:01 am

    Oh my….

    In the home stretch of the 2012 presidential campaign, from August to September, the unemployment rate fell sharply — raising eyebrows from Wall Street to Washington.

    The decline — from 8.1 percent in August to 7.8 percent in September — might not have been all it seemed. The numbers, according to a reliable source, were manipulated.

    And the Census Bureau, which does the unemployment survey, knew it.

    Just two years before the presidential election, the Census Bureau had caught an employee fabricating data that went into the unemployment report, which is one of the most closely watched measures of the economy.

    And a knowledgeable source says the deception went beyond that one employee — that it escalated at the time President Obama was seeking reelection in 2012 and continues today.

    “He’s not the only one,” said the source, who asked to remain anonymous for now but is willing to talk with the Labor Department and Congress if asked.

    The Census employee caught faking the results is Julius Buckmon, according to confidential Census documents obtained by The Post. Buckmon told me in an interview this past weekend that he was told to make up information by higher-ups at Census.

    Ironically, it was Labor’s demanding standards that left the door open to manipulation.

    Labor requires Census to achieve a 90 percent success rate on its interviews — meaning it needed to reach 9 out of 10 households targeted and report back on their jobs status.

    Census currently has six regions from which surveys are conducted. The New York and Philadelphia regions, I’m told, had been coming up short of the 90 percent.

    Philadelphia filled the gap with fake interviews.

    “It was a phone conversation — I forget the exact words — but it was, ‘Go ahead and fabricate it’ to make it what it was,” Buckmon told me.

    Census, under contract from the Labor Department, conducts the household survey used to tabulate the unemployment rate.

    Interviews with some 60,000 household go into each month’s jobless number, which currently stands at 7.3 percent. Since this is considered a scientific poll, each one of the households interviewed represents 5,000 homes in the US.

    Buckmon, it turns out, was a very ambitious employee. He conducted three times as many household interviews as his peers, my source said.

    By making up survey results — and, essentially, creating people out of thin air and giving them jobs — Buckmon’s actions could have lowered the jobless rate.

    Buckmon said he filled out surveys for people he couldn’t reach by phone or who didn’t answer their doors.

    But, Buckmon says, he was never told how to answer the questions about whether these nonexistent people were employed or not, looking for work, or have given up.

    But people who know how the survey works say that simply by creating people and filling out surveys in their name would boost the number of folks reported as employed.

    Census never publicly disclosed the falsification. Nor did it inform Labor that its data was tainted.

    “Yes, absolutely they should have told us,” said a Labor spokesman. “It would be normal procedure to notify us if there is a problem with data collection.”

    Census appears to have looked into only a handful of instances of falsification by Buckmon, although more than a dozen instances were reported, according to internal documents.

    In one document from the probe, Program Coordinator Joal Crosby was ask in 2010, “Why was the suspected … possible data falsification on all (underscored) other survey work for which data falsification was suspected not investigated by the region?”

    On one document seen by The Post, Crosby hand-wrote the answer: “Unable to determine why an investigation was not done for CPS,” or the Current Population Survey — the official name for the unemployment report.

    With regard to the Consumer Expenditure survey, only four instances of falsification were looked into, while 14 were reported.

    I’ve been suspicious of the Census Bureau for a long time.

    During the 2010 Census report — an enormous and costly survey of the entire country that goes on for a full year — I suspected (and wrote in a number of columns) that Census was inexplicably hiring and firing temporary workers.

    I suspected that this turnover of employees was being done purposely to boost the number of new jobs being report each month. (The Labor Department does not use the Census Bureau for its other monthly survey of new jobs — commonly referred to as the Establishment Survey.)

    Last week I offered to give all the information I have, including names, dates and charges to Labor’s inspector general.

    I’m waiting to hear back from Labor.

    I hope the next stop will be Congress, since manipulation of data like this not only gives voters the wrong impression of the economy but also leads lawmakers, the Federal Reserve and companies to make uninformed decisions.

    To cite just one instance, the Fed is targeting the curtailment of its so-called quantitative easing money-printing/bond-buying fiasco to the unemployment rate for which Census provided the false information.

    So falsifying this would, in essence, have dire consequences for the country.

  • 244. James  |  November 19, 2013 at 3:15 pm

    Little of this surprises me. Adversity shows the quality of real character and as this falls apart they reveal themselves to be elitist tyrants.

    I have used Sarah Palin as a stick to good naturedly poke Rutherford, but she would have been a better president than Obama, if for no other reason that her advisers would not have been socialists and statists.

    Obama and his henchmen are lucky they live in the United States. Otherwise the cry of “To the Wall!!” would echo outside of their windows.

  • 245. poolman  |  November 19, 2013 at 3:17 pm

    You think we’ve seen deadly weather lately? Get used to it. The air force said they’d control the weather by 2025. I think they’re a bit ahead of schedule. Coincidently, the guy that showed the microwave burst causing the recent typhoon to hit the Philippines has been removed from you tube.

  • 246. James  |  November 19, 2013 at 3:21 pm

    Many liberals owe us, including Rutherford an appology.

    I’d do the same about the dog. Our daughter and son in law’s dog is good with the baby. but the two are never alone. A few days ago, I had our grand daughter on her feet and walked her a few steps. She squealed and laughed. The dog looked with what I judged to be malivalent eyes.

    We take care to show her a lot of attention to prevent her from becoming jealous.

    I am home to do some work before snow and cold weather invade us on Thursday.

    I haven’t read much of the blog since our grand daughter was born in June. Where is Pfessor?

  • 247. James  |  November 19, 2013 at 3:25 pm

    A climatologist guest on Coast to Coast said part of the blame lies in the Sun. The recent solar maximum has been very weak, but this month has seen some activity. He said a major flare erupted before the typhoon and another did before the jet stream was forced north and helped create the tornadoes.

    I don’t know if he is right, probably not, but his chat was interesting.

  • 248. Tex Taylor  |  November 19, 2013 at 4:30 pm

    Dude, it should take a day, maybe two. You need a month- and a half? You whittling the floors from trees?

    Took me half a day to clean the kid’s crap out of the closet and my wife, the children’s toy hoarder, had crap stacked to the ceiling. It’s all over the house – and for my sake, by Friday I better have someplace to stash it – momma’s already not happy about me spending $2,000 without asking. Whoops. :smile: It’s not so much the money as not asking permission.

    I’m going to get your big ass over here to help my set these Tapcons into my slab floor. I’ve about worn out a Makita Hammer Drill and I’m on my fifth #3 Phillips – keep sheering these bastards off. My Dewalt Drill is screaming to quit and my 53 year old knees feel like 93.

    And I haven’t even gotten to the real floor yet. :twisted: I never knew 244sq ft. could look so big. Took me half a day to get the damn baseboards off without breaking them. There must not be a square wall in this room.

    Damn subfloor has taken three days – closets are a killer. With these real oak floors, you got to let the boards acclimate to the house – so I’ll be back in force next week to badmouth Obama while I wait.

    No telling how long I can drag out the stain and finish.

  • 249. Tex Taylor  |  November 19, 2013 at 4:33 pm

    Gorilla and gang,

    I think Obama personifies the worst characteristics of both Nixon and Carter.

    I knew Obama was going to be incompetent five years ago and said as much right here. I didn’t know Obama was such devious thug to go with it.

    That’s a lethal combination of bad…

  • 250. Rutherford  |  November 19, 2013 at 6:46 pm

    What a great eulogy for Richard Nixon:

    “Competent thug.”
    :lol:

  • 251. El Tigre  |  November 19, 2013 at 7:17 pm

    I’ll take a competent thug over the one we got in office now.

  • 252. poolman  |  November 19, 2013 at 7:20 pm

    I’m sure he’s somebody’s competent thug or he wouldn’t be there.

  • 253. parker  |  November 19, 2013 at 8:14 pm

    Great reviews on Amazon.com of Sarah Palin’s new Christmas book. Here’s one of the better ones:

    http://www.amazon.com/review/R3QLG9DY1Y1WCY/ref=cm_cr_pr_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=0062292889&linkCode=&nodeID=&tag=

  • 254. Rutherford  |  November 19, 2013 at 8:51 pm

    Noah I tend to agree with Parker on the Bill Whittle video which I finally forced myself to watch.

    First you notice the little punk couldn’t get through one video without a snarky comment about Obama (“57 states”).

    But on to the substance. I don’t argue in the least that Reagan was “Coke” but as Parker tried to tell you Ted Cruz is the New Coke. Cruz is no Reagan. If Romney had a genuine political perspective he would have resembled Reagan far more than a Cruz or any Tea Partier.

    Mitt’s problem was not being a moderate. It was being a very successful businessman with zero interest in politics. I think he was chasing Daddy’s dream. Mitt was not a convincing pol.

    Reagan would be rejected by today’s GOP. The reason more to do with style than ideology. Reagan could work with the opposition. That tactic nowadays is considered heresy.

    No Noah, the concept of effecting government by grinding it to a halt is not Classic Coke. It is the New Coke. Even worse, it is a relaunch of the New Coke. Gingrich tried it in the 90′s costing Republicans lots of votes. So the New Coke was already tried and failed. Ted Cruz and the recalcitrant Congress that follows his lead over Boehner’s are too stupid not to roll out the New Coke again.

  • 255. Rutherford  |  November 19, 2013 at 9:02 pm

    The reason 2016 will be so enjoyable is that the GOP has some potent Classic Coke to put on display if they so choose. Chris Christie, Jeb Bush, maybe even Bobby Jindal.

    For reasons that still escape me, with the exception of Romney, Huntsman and perhaps Gingrich, the GOP rolled out an embarrassing clown car in 2011/2012. For the sake of giving Americans a real choice I hope the GOP gives us a slate of serious candidates in the next round.

    By the way I dread the possibility of a coronated Hillary and there is much talk that if she runs she will run unopposed. I am praying that Liz Warren gets in and beats her establishment ass.

  • 256. Rutherford  |  November 19, 2013 at 9:11 pm

    Parker my wife just read me some reviews of Palin’s book off Amazon and it is some of the funniest stuff ever put to virtual paper.

  • 257. #Occupy Narcissism  |  November 19, 2013 at 9:43 pm

    I just saw Oregon and cracked up. Still not one person with Obamacare. I remembered a few weeks ago when Rutherford was following current MSNBC orders, chiding us how “it’s just a website glitch” and that things in Oregon seem to fine…but we don’t want to talk about that.

    Obama voters….and I’m talking all of you…..you guys sure stunk it all up….didn’t you.

  • 258. #Occupy Narcissism  |  November 19, 2013 at 9:47 pm

    Why is the wife reading the comment section on whatever book Palin wrote…(I only learned that here by the way). That’s what is on her radar right now?

    You liberals need to be doing homework every night on how you got it so wrong.

    You guys ever fuck up again like this and I’m not sure it will all be so civilized.

  • 260. El Tigre  |  November 19, 2013 at 11:45 pm

    Reagan would be embraced by the right.

    Turn off the damn MSNBC. For the love of God. You sound like Bubbles Brzezinski. You haven’t the foggiest clue what makes the right tick. Stop acting like the left’s approval counts for shit.

  • 261. El Tigre  |  November 19, 2013 at 11:48 pm

    In other words, you’re clown car is in office. Its time for you to focus on how to fix the left’s problems. You guys are proven a disaster.

  • 262. Tex Taylor  |  November 20, 2013 at 12:18 am

    It is rather humorous to read Rutherford critique the Republican field. It wasn’t five years ago, “R” was mocking Jindal…

  • 263. poolman  |  November 20, 2013 at 2:17 am

  • 264. an800lbgorilla  |  November 20, 2013 at 6:57 am

  • 265. El Tigre  |  November 20, 2013 at 8:00 am

    “your clown car”

  • 266. El Tigre  |  November 20, 2013 at 8:15 am

    I used to think it was the height of arrogance to listen of the dimwits on the Obama channel critique the right — talk about candidates they find electable (Huntsman???) — as though their seat on the bandwagon provides a special view.

    I have to come realize though that it’s just all about distraction from their own shortcomings and failures. Introspection is non-existent(Benghazi, Syria, IRS, Obamacare).

    As I type, MSNBC is playing a clip of Obama laying blame for the Obamacare disaster on the opposition from Congress with Bubbles joining in saying that — get this — it’s the negative media coverage. The “political environment” is what they claim is fucking up their wonderful plan.

    Unbelievable.

    So, what’s Palin up to? :roll:

  • 267. El Tigre  |  November 20, 2013 at 8:37 am

    Holy sheeeet. I just read and saw videos of the Knockout Game. Pretty fucked up. Hopefully Obama’s influence and the voices of reason from Black leaders will bring this to an end. :roll:

    Or will the frustrations of black youths mean whitey had it coming to them? Hmmm. Maybe I shouldn’t be so quick to decide who the real victim is here.

  • 268. muffy  |  November 20, 2013 at 2:05 pm

    Yeah you really need to see it (the knock out game) to fully appreciate it, huh? Why are the broadcasts of the videos being shown with the animals’ faces blurred? Aren’t we proud of our youth?

    Yeah my boy does a one hitter quitter bay-bay!. Whoo!

    Hey mama you’re fucking kid is a menace.

    But I just want be sure he has health insurance case he gets a boo boo.

    GRRRROWL. Let’s ALL be animals.

  • 269. dead rabbit  |  November 20, 2013 at 5:38 pm

    “Introspection is non-existent” -Tigre

    Big time. Even things I used to think liberals legitimately cared about too. I never agreed with anti Gitmo crowd. But damn did I believe they were real.

    They either gossip or irresponsibly push for government schemes without a care in the world how they hurt people once implemented.

  • 270. muffy  |  November 20, 2013 at 8:04 pm

    “Reagan would be embraced by the right.”

    Damn straight.

    Tigre @ #266 is spot on.

  • 271. muffy  |  November 20, 2013 at 9:15 pm

    Girls did you hear that Sarah Palin responded to Martin Bashir’s disturbing fantasies even after he apologized for airing them? I don’t know what she said but I’m sure it’s the stupidest thing anyone has ever said. And racist.

  • 272. Noah  |  November 20, 2013 at 9:31 pm

    Obama is my Shepherd; I shall not work.
    He maketh me to lie down and watch Oprah:
    He leadeth me beside the still factories.
    He restoreth my bling:
    He leadeth me in the paths of idleness for Barrack Obama’s name sake.
    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the sharing of the wealth,
    I will fear no workfare: For thou art funding me;
    Thy gat and thy blade, they comfort me.
    Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of people who actually produce;
    Thou annointest my teeth with gold; My pipe runneth over.
    Surely rebates and Earned Income Credits shall follow me all the days of my life, and I will dwell in the House of the Obama forever.

  • 273. muffy  |  November 20, 2013 at 9:36 pm

    “It is rather humorous to read Rutherford critique the Republican field. It wasn’t five years ago, “R” was mocking Jindal…”

    It wasn’t five years ago. It was three. :)

    Tell us all about the deep bench on the left, R…

  • 274. Rutherford  |  November 20, 2013 at 9:42 pm

    “I just saw Oregon and cracked up. Still not one person with Obamacare.”

    Funny I just saw today that CT, KY, and CA to name three states are at or ahead of their Obamacare projections. All have Dem Governors.

    Could it possibly be that a law is harder to implement if you work AGAINST it?

    Naaaah! :neutral:

  • 275. dead rabbit  |  November 20, 2013 at 10:10 pm

    Oh cool. You got a shot of MSNBC machismo and back to laughably blaming Republicans while defending the biggest political disaster in both our lifetimes. And you are dumb enough to do it as a public persona, online. Millions upon millions of cancellations over this still coming.

    The very crux of the law so obviously flawed any blaming of GOP makes me look forward the mob coming after you, metaphorically of course.

    You dumb shit. Change the channel.

  • 276. muffy  |  November 20, 2013 at 10:25 pm

    “Could it possibly be that a law is harder to implement if you work AGAINST it?”

    We ARE against it.

    The ACA gave states the option of setting up their own exchanges or allowing the federal gov’t to do it. Now it’s boo hoo the Republicans are making it harrrrderrrr.

    You must be really PO’d at Big Labor.

  • 277. El Tigre  |  November 20, 2013 at 10:26 pm

    “Could it possibly be that a law is harder to implement if you work AGAINST it?”

    Like delaying the mandate for a year?

    Duh. :roll:

  • 278. dead rabbit  |  November 20, 2013 at 10:29 pm

    California has some weird special mandate: the California’s state-run exchange called on insurers to cancel by Dec. 31.

    Your looking at the last minute rush right now. You think the healthy people are the ones rushing?

    Remember, you need healthy and young people to rob.

    You think that’s happening in California? It aint just numbers. Model citizens rushing into the system to comply with what is now not even a mandate? You think?

    Repeat. You need healthy young people signed up by the millions and you need it very quickly or this thing collapses down on us all like an economic version of the Twin Towers

    Dude….wake up.

  • 279. dead rabbit  |  November 20, 2013 at 10:33 pm

    “Like delaying the mandate for a year?”

    LOL

    no….dear leader did that silly.

  • 280. El Tigre  |  November 20, 2013 at 10:37 pm

    I honestly can’t believe R just repeated that line of shit.

    This one’s on you. Not a single vote from the right — passed by procedural tricks since it didn’t have the actual approval of the majority.

    Try demanding something from your party. Like accountability.

    My damn children know better.

  • 281. El Tigre  |  November 20, 2013 at 10:38 pm

    But he didn’t negotiate. He kept that promise. :roll:

  • 282. dead rabbit  |  November 20, 2013 at 10:41 pm

    Roughly 100,000 signed up for Obamacare in Cally.

    Roughly 1,000,000 with cancellations letters on their dressers in utter limbo while the law is changed ad hoc by one man.

    And you are bragging.

  • 283. dead rabbit  |  November 20, 2013 at 11:15 pm

    While the Federal Government will remain secretive as fuck, just read that Kentucky released some official stats. 19% of enrollees are age 18-34.

  • 284. dead rabbit  |  November 20, 2013 at 11:32 pm

    Government Assistance Insurance Programs

    The following programs provide financial assistance from the Commonwealth of Kentucky to individuals and families who meet the established guidelines.

     

    Rutherford. I came up with this one on my own. Read my cut and paste about KCHIP.

    Critical thinking exercise. No MSNBC. No FOX. This program ends soon because of Obamacare. What might this fact tell you about enrollment and future premiums? I know….its not about defecating in Palin’s mouth nor is it spoon fed. What ya say Harvard. Dare to walk on the wild side?

    Kentucky Children’s Health Insurance Program (KCHIP)  is free or low-cost health insurance for children. KCHIP is for children younger than 19 who do not have health insurance and whose family income is less than 200 percent of the federal poverty level. For example, a family of four can earn up to $44,700 a year and qualify for KCHIP.

    For complete details, you may visit your local Department for Community Based Services Office  to apply for KCHIP or by clicking on this link, Kentucky Children’s Health Insurance Program (KCHIP) . 

     

     

    The following programs are established by state or federal  law and require payment of premiums for insurance coverage.

     

    Kentucky Access  is a statewide health plan that offers health insurance coverage to Kentuckians who find it difficult to obtain health insurance in the individual health insurance market.  There are basically six ways an individual can qualify for Kentucky Access:

    Federally Eligible — Applies to current Kentucky residents who qualify as “eligible individuals” under the federal Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA), including individuals coming off the following types of medical coverage: group, governmental, church plan, COBRA, or state continuation; or

    Insurance Rejection — Applies to 12 month Kentucky residents who have been rejected by a private insurer for individual medical coverage substantially similar to Kentucky Access coverage; or

    Higher Premium Rate — Applies to 12 month Kentucky residents who have been offered individual medical coverage at a premium rate higher than the premium rate charged by Kentucky Access for substantially similar coverage; or

    High Cost Condition — Applies to 12 month Kentucky residents with one or more high cost medical conditions, please click here for the listing,

    GAP Eligible — Applies to participants in the state Guaranteed Acceptance Program (GAP); or

    Spouse or Child — Applies to Kentucky residents who are eligible dependents of a Kentucky Access enrollee.

    Child Only – Applies to Kentucky residents who are age 0 through 18, who are unable to obtain coverage in the private individual market.

  • 285. muffy  |  November 20, 2013 at 11:44 pm

    The man that hit the curb with his face acted stupidly.

  • 287. Huck  |  November 21, 2013 at 1:36 am

  • 288. Huck  |  November 21, 2013 at 1:37 am

  • 289. El Tigre  |  November 21, 2013 at 3:58 am

    Huck, that video just about says it all.

  • 290. parker  |  November 21, 2013 at 9:11 am

    Rutherford, I reckoned you’d like to hear what one of your own experts, David Cutler, medical economist, has to say about why your American medicine is so much more expensive than that in other countries. He gives three, but here is # 1:

    “… the administrative costs of running our health care system are astronomical. About one quarter of health care cost is associated with administration, which is far higher than in any other country.

    “…(next most expensive country is) … about 10, 15 percent. Just to give you one example, Duke University Hospital has 900 hospital beds and 1,300 billing clerks. The typical Canadian hospital has a handful of billing clerks. Single-payer systems have fewer administrative needs. That’s not to say they’re better, but that’s just on one dimension that they clearly cost less. What a lot of those people are doing in America is they are figuring out how to bill different insurers for different systems, figuring out how to collect money from people, all of that sort of stuff.”

    This ain’t rocket surgery; everybody needs to stop making it so complicated: It’s a closed system, so American medical care is eventually paid for by American workers and taxpayers; there is no other source of money. Notice I said “workers,” not “entitlement and welfare recipients.” It requires WORK to generate capital; they are the only people who do it.

    How can it be less expensive if you basically keep the same system and add a huge administrative bureaucracy that has to be paid for, too? Mr. Obama kept the worst of both systems; if you were going to implement this abomination, you should at least have gone for a single-payer system, so as to eliminate all the clerical overhead.

  • 291. an800lbgorilla  |  November 21, 2013 at 10:42 am

    As of this week, not one of the plans for sale on New York’s health benefit exchange would cover treatment at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, one of the world’s largest and most respected cancer hospitals.

    That could mean that the 615,000 individuals and 450,000 small business employees expected to eventually get their insurance through the exchange would have to go someplace else for treatment, or pay the bill out of their own pockets.

    Other premier city hospitals are in the networks of just a few of the new plans.

    NYU Langone Medical Center has signed agreements with four of the 19 insurers doing business on the exchange.

    NewYork-Presbyterian Hospital, which oversees the city’s biggest hospital system, has signed agreements with six insurers.

    President Obama promised when the Affordable Care Act was enacted that people who liked their doctors could keep them, but the reality of the law both in New York and around the country is that the new, lower-cost policies it is creating sometimes have smaller provider networks than Medicare, Medicaid, or the plans people typically get through their employers.

    Those narrower networks are a result of insurers trying to control costs and hospitals being cautious about agreeing to take new, untested insurance products.

  • 292. Alfie  |  November 21, 2013 at 10:53 am

    @ Rutherford #274:
    I get you are tired of getting bashed about, especially on a topic you have some understandable passion for.
    That said though your reflex response falls flat on a number of levels.

    First off there are a number of states with (D) governors and healthy legislative populations that are not doing well re sign ups. A bar graph list of states via NPR illustrates this providing you have an appreciation for Governors. The graph also tells one a story if you are willing to dig a little deeper and it isn’t very good for your side.

    Vermont tops the list but that isn’t anything Obama should hang his hat on imo. The Green Mountain State only has 7.6% of its population “uninsured”,that is per VT state stats btw. The state is continuing its path to a “unified” health care system,ACA has actually hampered its march towards what some call America’s first single payer system. Bottomline VT enrollment numbers are almost exclusively (like most of the states) medicaid expansion numbers.

    There is precedent regards states not setting up exchanges. Many policy issues,set asides etc that get put into play by the federal government establishes bureaucracy. All across the board there are states that pick and choose how to implement these policies. For example in MA the state oversees discrimination issues. They have enforcement governance on the issue. You don’t go to the Feds. The sad thing is that if you do exhaust the state level you can go to the “top”. Its a farcical duplication of service,which is why other states just say “yeah you have a federal law issue pursue it via the feds”. I think the same can be said of the exchanges.

    As for Vermont I’d invite you to look into that coming system. Doesn’t go into full effect until 2017 and is likely to prove a good test /control subject. I still think true single payer is dead courtesy of ACA and that which it will unleash but the VT thing bears watching. I don’t see how it could work in TX or CA or any number of large states blue or red but it could be the bridge towards portable choice plans and regulated assurance that the US economy could,should embrace.

  • 293. Alfie  |  November 21, 2013 at 11:06 am

    As for the “knock out” phenom. I recently watched a video report on it and was struck dumb by the whole thing on every level.
    Bottom-line though is this.The black community needs to wake up because sensational savagery will only get you more hate,fear and prejudice which will inevitably result in blacks getting shot left and right. The fact people know that story would raise official condemnations only fuels the cycle.

  • 294. an800lbgorilla  |  November 21, 2013 at 12:26 pm

    It’s official: Dems believe they are going to be crushed in 2014. Now moving to mitigate against what that means…

    http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress/sen-harry-reid-gets-ready-to-go-nuclear-20131121

  • 295. Tex Taylor  |  November 21, 2013 at 12:46 pm

    Don’t suggest it to Rutherford, “Parker”

    if you were going to implement this abomination, you should at least have gone for a single-payer system, so as to eliminate all the clerical overhead.

    He’ll love the idea speaking of economies of scale concerning overhead, utterly ignoring that Medicare and Medicaid are wrought with fraud estimated to be as high as 25-30% and the system already going bankrupt.

    I actually can’t believe Dimocrats are this stupid. I’m cynical enough to believe this was the plan all along. Make Obamacare such a nightmare and screw up, to force people to throw up their hands and push for single payer. Yes, America is that dumb.

    Interesting on Duke U. Unbelievable…

  • 296. an800lbgorilla  |  November 21, 2013 at 12:52 pm

  • 297. an800lbgorilla  |  November 21, 2013 at 12:52 pm

  • 298. an800lbgorilla  |  November 21, 2013 at 1:34 pm

  • 299. Noah  |  November 21, 2013 at 2:29 pm

    Was this the hope and change you were hoping for?
    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/11/20/drivers-forced-off-road-blood-saliva-samples

  • 300. Rutherford  |  November 21, 2013 at 6:10 pm

    Apologies if this has already been posted. Since you guys don’t believe in climate change, just ignore that part and enjoy the rest. There is truth–it’s the slow drip drip of things falling apart.

  • 301. Alfie  |  November 21, 2013 at 7:25 pm

    Mmmm wisdom from a comedian Skyeping from his dorm room. I always make life choices after such good counsel. I rate it right up there with Reverend Drive about Town.
    Enjoy the Trytophan freaks,and don’t get crushed in the Black Friday rushes.

  • 302. Rutherford  |  November 21, 2013 at 9:05 pm

    Alfie, normally I might agree with you but this dude was basically anointed the heir to George Carlin by Carlin’s own daughter.

    Obviously to each his own but I think political comedians are as vital to public discourse as the ever shrinking fourth estate.

  • 303. Rutherford  |  November 21, 2013 at 9:08 pm

    “Its time for you to focus on how to fix the left’s problems. You guys are proven a disaster.”

    But Tigre old chum, I’m just adopting your stance that liberalism is an unfixable losing game. That’s why I’m so focused on creating a viable alternative. ;-)

  • 304. Rutherford  |  November 21, 2013 at 9:10 pm

    ” It wasn’t five years ago, “R” was mocking Jindal.”

    Quote please. Evidence sir. I probably did crack wise about Jindal’s response to the State of the Union but then who didn’t?

  • 305. Rutherford  |  November 21, 2013 at 9:22 pm

    “talk about candidates they find electable”

    You don’t like it Tigre because you probably find it disingenuous. These are folks who regardless of their prescriptions are going to vote Dem anyway.

    You’ve accused me of this but there you are actually wrong. I could have pulled the lever for Huntsman. If Christie runs against Hillary he will get my vote. If he runs against Warren I will struggle.

    If the GOP candidate is Cruz or Rick Perry or Herman Cain it’s a no-brainer. I’d sooner vote for a cactus.

  • 306. poolman  |  November 21, 2013 at 9:23 pm

    No, Rutherford, nobody posted that Lee Camp video. I think I’m the only one who enjoys him here besides you. I do find his contributions poignant and agree with most all of his views. One I have come to agree with, although for differing reasons is the global warming or climate change.

    I was convinced we were heading into a mini ice age, but I think we are messing with things too much. There is man-made global warming that has nothing to do with carbon emissions.. They (the Navy for one) shoot microwaves into the ionosphere and super-heat it creating plasma clouds that in turn alter the jet stream. Apparently, they have been doing it for sometime and in conjunction with airborne metals broadcast from mostly Air Force jets.

  • 307. Rutherford  |  November 21, 2013 at 9:32 pm

    “They either gossip or irresponsibly push for government schemes without a care in the world how they hurt people once implemented.”

    Do you guys read what you write? You make statements every bit as generic and broad rush as any anti-conservative screed. Regardless of which side is doing it, it’s utter nonsense.

    Sure a simplistic world view is easier to spout when standing behind your blind waiting to kill some poor defenseless animal. No time for nuance under those circumstances.

  • 308. Rutherford  |  November 21, 2013 at 9:37 pm

    “”Reagan would be embraced by the right.”

    Damn straight.

    Tigre @ #266 is spot on.”

    Pure foolishness. Reagan WORKED WITH Tip O’Neil and was praised for it. Christie worked with Obama and the right crapped their pants.

    Put down the crack pipe Muffy. If Tigre says something it’s worth reading at least three times before you agree with it.

    P.S. Based on the recent spectacle of Mayor Ford of Toronto, that crack pipe reference was over the top. I’d suggest Muffy that you’re only mildly stoned. :-)

  • 309. Rutherford  |  November 21, 2013 at 9:47 pm

    “Obama is my Shepherd; I shall not work.
    He maketh me to lie down and watch Oprah: …”

    Noah if you spent half the time expressing your own thoughts instead of copy/pasting chain letter shit you might get somewhere.

    Could I ask you a serious question? How many folks living in mansions with servants quarters are doing so on a welfare income?

    Where do you go look for the so-called welfare queen, Beverly Hills or Compton?

    If welfare recipients are living so large, how many would you swap places with?

  • 310. Rutherford  |  November 21, 2013 at 9:51 pm

    “Tell us all about the deep bench on the left, R…”

    If I could I would. To my dismay Hillary is all but anointed. There are whispers about Liz Warren which excite me. Beyond that there is NOTHING. If neither Clinton not Warren run in 2016 we will lose the election (unless the GOP runs Perry or Cruz).

  • 311. muffy  |  November 21, 2013 at 10:48 pm

    “Christie worked with Obama and the right crapped their pants.”
    :lol: Interesting concept of “working.” One was campaigning and the other acting the tour guide.

    Obama is the first pResident who doesn’t know the first thing about how to talk to people. He talks about people. The people he “works with” are the people who already agree with him.

    “You’ve accused me of this but there you are actually wrong. I could have pulled the lever for Huntsman. If Christie runs against Hillary he will get my vote. If he runs against Warren I will struggle.”

    No he isn’t ACTUALLY wrong until you ACTUALLY do.

    If Christie runs your Rachel will trash another decent man and you’ll have another vision of a future where Christie “would be” worse than Hillary. You’ll think that the word ACTUALLY applies then too.

    “Quote please. Evidence sir. I probably did crack wise about Jindal’s response to the State of the Union but then who didn’t?”

    Sounds like you do remember. (Who didn’t? Everybody else here.)

    “Bobby’s Republican response to one of Obama’s early Congressional addresses in 2009 was so awkward and embarrassing that it is hard to believe he could be a compelling challenger. He has been accurately compared to Kenneth the page in the sitcom “30 Rock”. This is another non-starter.”

    “The last Republican response was the infamously awkward response delivered by Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal. For reasons known only to the geniuses in the Republican party, they went to the Louisiana well again.”

    “I will say however, that his performance beat the crap out of Bobby Jindal two years ago.”

    “It was one of the more bizarre errors in optics ever to be witnessed, and indeed toppled the record holder, Mr. Bobby Jindal and his odd look of two years ago.”

  • 312. Alfie  |  November 21, 2013 at 11:16 pm

    Rutherford I have to help you with your delusion regards Lizzie Warren. She was appointed by the (D) powers OUTSIDE of MA so to think she has the fortitude to run against Queen D is just silly.

  • 313. dead rabbit  |  November 21, 2013 at 11:17 pm

    “Sure a simplistic world view is easier to spout when standing behind your blind waiting to kill some poor defenseless animal. No time for nuance under those circumstances.” R

    Where the hell is that coming from?

    I’m not going to address the stupidity of the hunting cheap shot (if that is what it was) outside of the fact that there is more “nuance” packed in just 3 hours of being completely still in the woods as evening turns to night then a life time watching MSNBC in a stuffy apartment. Add in I’ve watched summer fade into late fall out there and I actually feel sorry for how distant and non nuanced you really are.

    Haven’t had the combination of the right deer or the right shot to harvest. All that time spent out there and I don’t regret one but of it.

    Ok….you can go back to your Truman Show life now.

    PS. Stop using the word “nuance”. Fag.

  • 314. El Tigre  |  November 22, 2013 at 1:39 am

    “You don’t like it Tigre because you probably find it disingenuous. These are folks who regardless of their prescriptions are going to vote Dem anyway.”

    No you ninny. You and the other 10 people that watch MSNBC ain’t going to get him elected. Your pretend love of him is irrelevant.

    Read that three times before disagreeing with it.

  • 315. El Tigre  |  November 22, 2013 at 1:47 am

    “Pure foolishness. Reagan WORKED WITH Tip O’Neil and was praised for it. Christie worked with Obama and the right crapped their pants.”

    Reagan wouldn’t have had a thing to do with Obama or vice versa.

    There is no working with Obama. Even within his own party.

    And Tip was no Pelosi.

    Reagan would’ve “worked with” him like he would’ve “worked with” Brezhnev.

    If you think otherwise, direct us to on initiative you’d use as an example.

  • 316. El Tigre  |  November 22, 2013 at 1:59 am

    Seeing as Warren has about the same political experience as Obama, I can understand R’s endorsement.

    Experience and achievement are so overrated.

  • 317. Alfie  |  November 22, 2013 at 7:08 am

    This guy is no George Carlin and I do comedy a disservice saying he is one.
    Unoriginal and unreal he speaks to truthers not truth,his punditry more wiz than wit.
    People pursue what salves their egos.

  • 318. Raji  |  November 22, 2013 at 9:26 am

    The administrations oath for transparency is blatantly missing!

    “As surely as if they were placing a hand over a journalist’s camera lens, officials in this administration are blocking the public from having an independent view of important functions of the executive branch of government,”

    http://bigstory.ap.org/article/news-media-protest-white-house-press-access-limits

  • 319. Raji  |  November 22, 2013 at 9:38 am

    Nuclear Option! Now who coined that phrase or am I missing something?

  • 320. parker  |  November 22, 2013 at 9:59 am

    Raji -

    “Nuclear Option! Now who coined that phrase or am I missing something?”

    I’m not that conversant in US Constitutional law, but here goes:

    I do not believe that in US, it is a requirement of the Constitution, but the tradition is that Presidential appointees require a supermajority for confirmation. I believe this comes under the “advise and consent” provision.

    Until the advent of open war in the Senate and Congress, this has worked fairly well to give the minority party some input into the process, but now it is being used by the Republicans to deny Obama ANY say in ANYTHING, wherever possible. And, having said that, the Democrats are very little better.

    Finally the Democrats decided that they were fed up with the cynical, supercilious nonsense and changed a rule that is more than 150 years old. It is considered such a big deal that it is the legislative equivalent of using a nuclear weapon. I think it was the Republican, Trent Lott, who started using the phrase.

    Nonsense. They should have done it long ago. Obama is an idiot, but that is not how responsible adults behave, certainly adults who are doing the business of the whole country.

    I may have some of the facts wrong; this is a pretty good explanation:

    http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/11/21/qa-what-is-the-nuclear-option/

  • 321. Noah  |  November 22, 2013 at 11:19 am

    The profile of a dictator is that they become exponentially more dangerous when their power is threatened. This explains the last 24 hour news cycle. Obama, calling the propagandist media into a closed meeting. Reid imposing the nuclear option, and shortly thereafter Obama comes out expressing his endorsement.

    This morning it is being reported that much of the Media will be closed off from Obama’s public appearances. It all foretelling of dangerous days ahead has this regime digs in to secure their power at any, and all cost.

  • 322. Noah  |  November 22, 2013 at 11:32 am

    Could I ask you a serious question?

    I posted 2, count them 2 chain letters, and you cannot get off it. Whatever cheap shot works for you.

    As to your serious question. Attend a Tea Party meeting and actually talk with Conservatives. Stop having your truth delivered to you and start to think for yourself.

    Conservatives are not against welfare. We are against OUR welfare system. We are against a system that causes people to become dependent upon the government. For the same reasons we are against ACA, because once again, by force of law, we are beholden to the government. Though in this case the charity comes with 16,000 new IRS agents armed to the teeth.

    Conservatives want a welfare program that lifts people up. Our current system keeps people poor. Conservatives believe that people should be able to live most of their lives with little or no interaction with the government. Today we see police pulling people over, who have done nothing wrong, asking them for DNA samples. Could you imagine the reaction in the 1960′s or 70′s of the government grabbing random people for testing? We have lost more of our freedom in the last 5 years than in the last 50. The government has gained more power over us in the last 15 years than it has since its inception.

    Do you for a moment think that Obama and his administration are doing all of these things at random? Do you really think this is not leading to something? We can disagree what that something might be, but do you disagree that there is an end game to all of this?

  • 323. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 22, 2013 at 12:19 pm

    Tigre, my wife is asking me if we want to move to Atlanta (a position has come open in her corporate headquarters there). What’s Georgia’s reciprocity like?

  • 324. El Tigre  |  November 22, 2013 at 12:41 pm

    BiC, I honestly don’t know. I think it’s liberal. But I have only seen it with the East Coast jurisdictions.

    This should have reciprocity charts and requirements. Perhaps you can come in motion. If you need a vouch or pro hac, you know how to reach me.

    http://www.ncbex.org/assets/media_files/Comp-Guide/CompGuide.pdf#page=49

  • 325. #Occupy Narcissism  |  November 22, 2013 at 4:14 pm

    Will a pro hac help my golf swing? If so I’ll take one too, brah.

  • 326. Noah  |  November 22, 2013 at 5:26 pm

    Well said.

  • 327. Rutherford  |  November 22, 2013 at 5:48 pm

    “Where the hell is that coming from?

    I’m not going to address the stupidity of the hunting cheap shot …”

    Yeah admittedly a cheap shot. You got my goat because I consider you pragmatic and down to Earth and you’ve been waxing awfully melodramatic lately.

    If you read some of your more recent comments coming from someone else you’d say “oh come on.”

  • 328. Rutherford  |  November 22, 2013 at 5:50 pm

    Muffy good quotes that you culled there. Proved my point that I made fun of Jindal’s response to the SOTU.

    The one thing I like about Jindal is he spoke out publicly against the crazies in his party. Bravo for that.

  • 329. poolman  |  November 22, 2013 at 6:44 pm

    Another of my favorite comedians…

  • 330. dead rabbit  |  November 22, 2013 at 8:30 pm

    So the dirty fucks are going to extend the delay a few weeks more…..just a few weeks…..after the election.

    Disgusting.

    Rot in hell liberals. Seriously…..

    They are fucking the voter over….again. I’ve never seen one party attempt to insulate themselves from their own damn law like this before. And its been this way since day one.

    I would never accept this shit if it was the other way around. But then again, there never has been sweeping legislation like this passed in such a partisan asshole fashion.

    Coward cunts hiding from the people yet again. Taking power from us.

    There is nothing to debate about anymore. Liberals are beholden to demagogues. They are dead to me. The iconic idealistic liberal is now an apolitical asshole utterly silent over the indefensible. How anyone can sit on the sidelines, liberal or conservative, is beyond me.

    Republicans are either slime balls themselves or don’t have the charisma to remotely convince enough of the taker class to vote against hand outs.

    Other fools on the fence are chasing imaginary boogie men like the “dominionists” or dungeon and dragon conspiracies.

    We are fucked.

    Romney was right.

    I’ve been listening to progressive radio. It is the most vile, shallow and out of touch garbage I’ve ever heard.

    I’m not sure I would help a liberal drowning right now.

    This union is unsustainable.

  • 331. dead rabbit  |  November 22, 2013 at 8:58 pm

    Isn’t amazing that the people playing the knock out game are sucker punching their fellow citizen when it is their fellow citizen who has subsidized their lives since most of them were born?

    Unfortunately, takers are so ignorant, they don’t even question where their free lunch comes from.

    My pharmacist brother spent the day again giving flu shots to homeless with iPhones. They bitched at him again for not having the inhale method with him. He told me it doesn’t even occur to them someone else worked for those flu shots.

    Every tax dollar I see wasted at work I imagine some guy running a small roof crew getting robbed after working harder then most liberals know is humanly possible.

  • 332. Rutherford  |  November 22, 2013 at 10:18 pm

    “We have lost more of our freedom in the last 5 years than in the last 50. The government has gained more power over us in the last 15 years than it has since its inception.”

    Your second sentence, Noah, cleaned up your first one. For a minute there I thought you were going to ignore the Patriot Act and warrantless wire tapping under George W. Bush.

    As for end game, I sometimes wonder if the government isn’t making it up as they go along. An end game may credit them with more intelligence than they deserve.

  • 333. Rutherford  |  November 22, 2013 at 10:20 pm

    Noah I can sign on to the conservative dependency argument but why must it always be accompanied by the notion that the poor are “getting away with something”?

  • 334. Rutherford  |  November 22, 2013 at 10:23 pm

    “What’s Georgia’s reciprocity like?”

    I love that lawyer-speak. C’mon guys make me look smart at my next cocktail party. Is this the ability of a lawyer’s credentials to be accepted cross-state?

  • 335. #Occupy Narcissism  |  November 22, 2013 at 10:44 pm

  • 336. Noah  |  November 22, 2013 at 10:50 pm

    Noah I can sign on to the conservative dependency argument but why must it always be accompanied by the notion that the poor are “getting away with something”?

    Because of the people that choose to make a lifestyle of bilking the system. We were on an unsustainable path before ACA. Over 50% of people on the government dime in some fashion. Add ACA to the mix, and the bubble and the debt, we have to change. There is no math that makes this work.

  • 337. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 22, 2013 at 10:51 pm

    It’s the ability to become licensed there without taking Georgia’s bar exam.

  • 338. #Occupy Narcissism  |  November 22, 2013 at 11:01 pm

    in that case, i’ll pass on the pro hac, brah.

  • 339. Rutherford  |  November 22, 2013 at 11:21 pm

    “So the dirty fucks are going to extend the delay a few weeks more…..just a few weeks…..after the election.”

    I’m behind on the news but WTF are you talking about? Election Day is already past.

  • 340. Rutherford  |  November 22, 2013 at 11:29 pm

    “Because of the people that choose to make a lifestyle of bilking the system.”

    But that gets us back to my original question which you really didn’t answer. Noah, are these bilkers living in Beverly Hills or Compton?

    And to Rabbit would you trade places for a life in a nasty neighborhood with an iPhone? Do you really believe an iPhone transforms ghetto life into a luxurious lifestyle?

    You can scream all day about the misappropriation of funds but does a lousy iPhone really make that much difference in an otherwise miserable life?

  • 341. Rutherford  |  November 22, 2013 at 11:31 pm

    Thanks for the definition BiC. C’mon out here to Chicagoland. We need you to clean up the place. ;-)

  • 342. dead rabbit  |  November 23, 2013 at 12:07 am

    Hell no I wouldn’t trade places with those fuck wads. They choose to be junkies.

    Drug addiction and the welfare state go together like cookies and milk. They complement one another perfectly.

    My brother knows of a pimp who legally fills oxy scripts for all his whores and has the audacity to pick them all up at the same time.
    All on the tax payer dime.

    I know. Liberal eye roll. More anecdotal evidence from a crazy right winger.

  • 343. Noah  |  November 23, 2013 at 12:20 am

    But that gets us back to my original question which you really didn’t answer. Noah, are these bilkers living in Beverly Hills or Compton?

    I guess I dont see the relevance. Neither of this options would allow for abuse of the system. I put a large part of the blame on Democrats for coming just short of promoting this way of life. They did a fine job of selling this as being help when it was actually a trap. When you find an animal hurt in the wild, the best thing you can do is patch it up quickly then get him back. If you keep the animal for too long, it will no longer be able to take care of itself because it has become dependent on its caretakers. I think the average person living in poverty has been caught in this trap.

  • 344. dead rabbit  |  November 23, 2013 at 12:26 am

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The Obama administration will push back the open enrollment season for Obamacare health insurance in 2015 by a month to give insurance companies more time to determine their rates, the White House said on Friday.

  • 345. Rutherford  |  November 23, 2013 at 12:41 am

    “My brother knows of a pimp who legally fills oxy scripts for all his whores and has the audacity to pick them all up at the same time.
    All on the tax payer dime.”

    Seriously are you unable to discriminate between a criminal enterprise and the typical person who uses our welfare programs?

    Why do you want to measure this or any program by its worst abuses? Is your glass half empty approach simply personal pessimism or a calculated political tactic?

  • 346. Rutherford  |  November 23, 2013 at 12:47 am

    “I guess I dont see the relevance.”

    Many conservatives act like their tax dollars are allowing lazy shiftless folks to live large. I could understand the outrage if this were true. But no one ever got rich collecting welfare.

  • 347. Rutherford  |  November 23, 2013 at 12:51 am

    “The Obama administration will push back the open enrollment season for Obamacare health insurance in 2015 …”

    Unless there is a typo in the Reuters piece I still don’t get it. Open enrollment would be pushed back in 2014.

    I need to Google this to see what is going on.

  • 348. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 23, 2013 at 12:53 am

    Back off and nuke it from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure. :lol:

    Seriously though, the Mrs. is doing her company’s management training in 2014 and will have to go to Chicago one week a month for 8 months. I joked that we should end up with enough frequent flyer miles to go to Hawaii.

  • 349. Rutherford  |  November 23, 2013 at 12:54 am

    I have mixed feelings about the nuclear option. The soundbites of Obama and Reid decrying it in 2005 make them look like supreme hypocrites. By the same token I favor anything that frees up the current log jam in the Senate.

  • 350. dead rabbit  |  November 23, 2013 at 12:56 am

    Neither.

    You don’t get it do you.

    To a liberal, my pimp story equals one bad example, which, of course is easily offset by one worthy welfare recipient.

    You don’t understand the multiplier effect of shady shit.

    Dude. The government gives him thousands of dollars of opiates every month. He takes those opiates and sells them on the street/pays his drug addicted whores. Very quickly others get addicted. Soon more whores are created. More welfare is needed. More oxy scripts. More whores. More violence. More welfare.
    More oxy scripts. More whores. More violence. More welfare. More oxy scripts. More whores. More violence. More welfare.
    More oxy scripts. More whores. More violence. More welfare. More oxy scripts. More whores. More violence. More welfare. More oxy scripts. More whores. More violence. More welfare.

  • 351. Rutherford  |  November 23, 2013 at 12:57 am

    “Back off and nuke it from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure. :lol:

    Sadly that’s the way I feel about a lot of Muslim countries. Hate to sound like Elric but I’m tired of the 13th century mindset and foolishness.

  • 352. Rutherford  |  November 23, 2013 at 12:58 am

    And so your solution is to abandon the deserving?

  • 353. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 23, 2013 at 1:00 am

    Many conservatives act like their tax dollars are allowing lazy shiftless folks to live large. I could understand the outrage if this were true. But no one ever got rich collecting welfare.

    No, but lots of people are made poor while government grows fat taking a handling charge before giving others just enough to keep them dependent.

  • 354. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  November 23, 2013 at 1:02 am

    And so your solution is to abandon the deserving?

    What makes them deserving of what someone else has earned?

  • 355. dead rabbit  |  November 23, 2013 at 1:07 am

    And so your solution is to abandon the deserving?

    If it were up to me welfare would consist of. powdered milk, orange juice, lentils and rice.

    I think we would see much less of the “deserving”.

  • 356. Rutherford  |  November 23, 2013 at 2:15 am

    “What makes them deserving of what someone else has earned?”

    I knew I was damned the minute I typed that word “deserving”.

    Bad word. How about “those in need of compassion and assistance”?

    I say this with absolutely no snark intended: the church can only do so much.

  • 357. Rutherford  |  November 23, 2013 at 2:17 am

    On November 22 1963 I was two years old. For the few of you who are older than I am I’d be genuinely interested in your recollections of that day.

  • 358. James  |  November 23, 2013 at 10:10 am

    Our grand daughter saw snow for the first time on Thursday night. She put her hand in it and squeezed a bit until it melted. My daughter and I agreed the five month old was not impressed, though her eyes grew big.

    I cross country skied in marginal conditions after we got home, and I fell hard on my elbow to catch myself. It was sore for a few minutes with broken skin, but I was fine.

    I was studying for a test in college as I listened to a radio variety show. The host said they were cutting into the network because of bad news from Dallas. I immediately turned on my tape recorder and caught the story.At first, they only told us the president had been shot, and his condition was unknown.

    I was numb, because our president had just died. He was supposed to be untouchable. He was young and apparently vigorous. My next thought was that a lot of people besides Kennedy would die.

    Kennedy and Goldwater were friends, and at the time, Goldwater was gaining in the polls. He even led Kennedy in one or two polls. I was sure that Kennedy’s death finished Goldwater, and LBJ would sweep in with a different Vietnam policy than either Kennedy or Goldwater offered. I selfishly believed my life would soon change, and it did in 1966.

    Classes were canceled, and we gathered to share our emotions. Some students cried. I taped as much of the news as i could. I think the programing lasted about three days. It was the first time I rermember networks devoting so much time to a story.

    I also felt sorry for Jackie as she watched her husband die while wearing some of his brain.

    Reporters made much of the grassy knoll because witnesses thought they saw a shooter run from there.

    I was in the dorm rec room watching with a crowd of others as Oswald was shot.

    Weeks later, students made gogulish jokes as a defense mechanism, I suppose.

    I used to privately play the news tape of Kennedy on anniversaries to commemorate his death, and I thought about his widow and children..

  • 359. James  |  November 23, 2013 at 10:17 am

    Both sides of the nuclear option are hyprocrites, and Democrats should know Repubicans will one day have revenge.

    The Senate was designed to put a check on popular designs and emotions. The Senate deliberated and gave strength to minority viewpoints. It forced compromise.

    I agree, if you want something , you pay for it. Welfare is no bed of roses, but if it is given too easily a population of dependent people results. Their votes are easier to buy than producers’ votes.

  • 360. #Occupy Narcissism  |  November 23, 2013 at 11:02 am

    That was a great little recollection of Kennedy’s death, James.
    I think I will read it to my classes and just lie about you being a friend of the family.

  • 361. #Occupy Narcissism  |  November 23, 2013 at 11:06 am

    I’m serious about most of food stamps being food based. It seems to me, it used to be more food based, less debit card.

    In urban areas there should be massive food depots, mostly dry goods.

    People have lived healthily on lentils and rice for thousands of years. Diabetes would practically disappear from where it not plagues the most people. Corruption would also go down.

    No more food stamps except in the most rural of areas.

    Hell…my system might end up costing just as much. But I guarantee if people on welfare only ate meat 3 times a year….things would change.

  • 362. poolman  |  November 23, 2013 at 1:14 pm

    I think you can use food stamps to buy soda and for places like McDonalds. How fucked is that? They don’t serve much real food. It’s mostly flavoring and preservatives. It has cellulose in it, like much of our processed foods. I quit eating Taco Bell many years ago when I found they put sand in their taco meat to keep it from being sticky. I think the McRib has like 70 ingredients and not one of them is real meat. Once you wean yourself off of these places, you feel much healthier and it’s tough to enjoy them at all.

    If they did food stamps more like the WIC program, it would better serve the needy, I think.

  • 363. Noah  |  November 23, 2013 at 2:19 pm

    Many conservatives act like their tax dollars are allowing lazy shiftless folks to live large. I could understand the outrage if this were true. But no one ever got rich collecting welfare.

    I think you are missing the point. They can be living out of a shoe box and none of this changes. It is not their status level that is at issue here nor any of these other imaginings.

    As far as the nuclear option goes I think this is a HUGE deal. I have major problems with this on 2 levels. We should never have a the minority silenced and I think this is setting the stage for a massive increase of judicial activism. You take this along with the NDAA and ACA and I think we are seeing the dismantling of the Republic.

    And just so you dont think this is all partisan, I was against this as well for the same reasons.

    `

  • 364. poolman  |  November 23, 2013 at 3:29 pm

    EBT is a parasite on society. It requires a lively host to thrive. If not kept in check, it can defeat its host. Welfare can be a safety net, but it isn’t used that way. There should be incentive to get out of that ‘net’ and get back to a self-sustaining profile, but that isn’t the way it is at all. It is an artificial lifestyle based on our collective benevolence and sustained through forced means.

    I can’t think of any government programs set up with the true goal of obsolescence in mind. Governmental power never relinquishes itself and has proven time and again it cannot police itself. Though this is well known, we don’t ever change it. We allow them to take our freedom and wealth, while we bicker about who’s to blame or argue the meaning of fair.

    If liberals want to help people, they wouldn’t force federal government into everyone’s business. Period. Societies can better deal with local discrepancies at the community level if they don’t have the bog of bureaucracy to hamper aid and alternative. Community is where people live and where our responsibility lies first. This is where our compassion should be expressed. To expect better from any human-based global entity is preposterous.

    If conservatives want to help people, they wouldn’t force monetary value and profit incentive on everything required for living in the land of the free. Ownership is an interesting concept when it comes to natural resources. A white man’s orientation, I believe.

    If we compare government to a tree that was planted to protect and provide us shade, it’s time we tend to it. Give it a serious pruning and rid it of all its parasites and dead branches. Only then can it weather all seasons to protect future generations.

  • 365. poolman  |  November 23, 2013 at 5:33 pm

    I was 6 years old living on Oahu when JFK was murdered. No TV there at the time, but I remember the radio giving the news and everyone including my parents were freaked out. They clung to every word the radio broadcast. For me, it was the first time radio was more than a source of music. I always recall those days as gray and cold, though likely the weather was fine.

    Have we learned anything in 50 years?

  • 366. Rutherford  |  November 23, 2013 at 7:02 pm

    Thanks to James and Poolman for the JFK recollections. All I have is 2nd hand from my parents who decided to take the subway that night and you could hear a pun drop–total silence, everyone in shock.

    That Sunday my Mom was putting me down for a nap when my Dad yelled to her “Oswald’s been shot”. He saw it live on TV. I slept.

  • 367. Alfie  |  November 23, 2013 at 10:53 pm

    What has the greatest impact on making a ghetto a ghetto? Is it the skin,dollars or something else?

  • 368. Alfie  |  November 23, 2013 at 10:55 pm

    I don’t want to be overly dramatic but if the US underclass were herded to government food depots the film I d recommend to appreciate the outcome is Black Hawk Down. Just sayin’

  • 369. Rutherford  |  November 24, 2013 at 1:16 am

    “Is it the skin,dollars or something else.”

    Ultimately it’s the money. Money is power. Knowledge is not power because knowledge doesn’t come free. (Nothing does.)

    Being rich doesn’t make you happy but it gives you options.

    I heard actor Wendell Pierce talk about a tradition among blacks in New Orleans to fend for themselves in response to discrimination. I don’t know how true that is but I’m all for it.

  • 370. parker  |  November 24, 2013 at 6:45 am

    Alfie: “What has the greatest impact on making a ghetto a ghetto?”

    Can you define “ghetto,” so there is a place to start? The term hasn’t always carried the same meaning that it does for most speakers in modern US, and it does not in other countries.

    Rutherford: “I heard actor Wendell Pierce talk about a tradition among blacks in New Orleans to fend for themselves in response to discrimination. I don’t know how true that is but I’m all for it.”

    How is it Americans say? You “don’t have to reinvent the wheel?” It is instructive to look around the world and decide what has worked, among the many examples of a people rising out of poverty. I think the Vietnamese in America after the Vietnam War are good examples. (Think, ‘fend for themselves’. ) European “DPs,” as they were derisively called, after WWII, also. The modern Chinese. The Brazilians. The (Asian) Indians. The list goes on.

    What has not worked? Well, how about what blacks in US are doing already? That surely isn’t working, is it? American Indians. Haitians.

    I return to what one of your regulars said, “We survived slavery, Jim Crow, the Klan. What we will not survive is the white man’s good intention.” Something like that. American politicians are not your friends. Blackfellas need to learn that.

  • 371. poolman  |  November 24, 2013 at 10:53 am

    Classic ghetto blaster.

  • 372. James  |  November 24, 2013 at 11:48 am

    One definition of ghetto is a poor section of town where people of the same race or social background live, often because of discrimination.

    The definition could be broadened. My Dutch -in laws live in what is in effect a ghetto in northwest Iowa. They discourage working on Sunday, even if it is burning the trash. They tend to do business with other Dutch people, and they keep contact with relatives and friends in the old country.The society does things the Dutch way and celebrate their heritage with a major festival each spring.

    They are thrifty, and most of the farmers are wealthy. They value education and scientific innovation.

    A Norwegian enclave is in northeast Iowa. They build their houses the Norwegian way.They speak with a Wisconsin accent. A man told us that this “ghetto” lives in the past. They commemorate what they learned when they moved to the US, while his cousins in Norway think it is silly.

    They don’t care about the past. They want to live now to pay their bills and enjoy modernity.

    A black man wrote that when he was a boy in Harlem he rarely saw a white person. He thought blacks were the norm. That feeling must seem natural if most of the neighbors look and believe alike.

    So, in one way a ghetto must also be a state of mind.

  • 373. #Occupy Narcissism  |  November 24, 2013 at 11:49 am

    Seems to me it doesn’t matter what one’s opinion is on Iran. Let them have nukes, don’t let them have nukes, believe their reasoning for enriching uranium. Liberal. Conservative. Isolationist. Neo-con.

    Today was not a deal for anybody with a brain.

    A 6 month period where some sanctions are lifted and Iran slows down its progress (what ever that means) so that we can negotiate again in 180 days……is that some kind of deal?

    Now……don’t forget……Obama’s red line was Iran will not have a nuclear program.

    Iran gets less fire on its ass. Keeps its program…even getting to go forward with their program…and we get 6 months to prepare for what?

    Sadly, considering the depths this administration will go to for the sake of partisan, political expediency…desperately trying to sculpt anything that appears of competency will have Kerry riding into DC with MSNBC throwiong roses on him.

    The left won’t even read about the deal. They will just defend it on deference to their dear leader.

    And…..as always….AS ALWAYS……Obama will have made another horrible mistake that I guarantee will be explained away in laughable fashion few months later.

    We’re talking about an administration that unleashed Obamacare knowing it was broken. Now they get played like suckers so that they have something that appears successful in a pathetic attempt to cover up last months epic domestic disaster.

    That is the Obama administration personified. They fuck up to cover for last weeks cover up. It’s like going into debt with a credit card funded by respect. You keep swiping it for the sake of sometimes only kicking the can for a few weeks.

    Hassan Rouhan on Novemeber 11, 2013: “Nuclear rights in the international framework, including uranium enrichment, on its soil” are not negotiable, Rouhani was quoted as saying by the semiofficial ISNA news agency. “For us red lines are not crossable.”

    OUCH. BLATANT DISRESPECT.

    Remember this deal, Remember Obama when you all scratch your head and wonder how the middle east ended up in a nuclear arms race. Iran gets to enrich Uranium. But now has more money freed up to fund Hezbollah. Awesome.

  • 374. #Occupy Narcissism  |  November 24, 2013 at 11:57 am

    wow. Iran gets 4.2 billion in cash.

    We paid tribute.

  • 375. Alfie  |  November 24, 2013 at 12:19 pm

    I mean ghetto in the typical use of the word as viewed in the USA. Throughout history each ethnic group that has melted into this big pot have had ghettoes. The sad thing is that no group other than blacks have personified a consistent degradation of areas. As Parker says the politician is not the black mans friend. Urban policies have only assured the decline of black community. The Asians and Hispanic communities have time and again improved their community standing. Although my white ass may be no safer in the worse barrio in America that barrio typically has more Latino ownership and economic umph than the worse black areas.

  • 376. James  |  November 24, 2013 at 12:21 pm

    Consider the Sami, whom I have mentioned before. They are indigineous people in northern Europe. Christian invaders burned their shamen alive and anyone who refused to renounce their religion.

    The joik, an ancient music form which may date back to the Ice Age was banned because it was of the devil. Some Sami people were enslaved and shipped to New Sweden in America. Some were taxed by three countries for same assets. Their young were often sent to schools as some Indians were to educate the culture from them. Governments relocated them when their land was on resources the larger population needed.

    Sami, like the Finns, have up to a third Asian genetic chromosomes, so they don’t look quite the same as their neighbors. Some are as dark as Eskimos while others are blue eyed blondes often with Asian eyes and high cheek bones.They are still derided as mongoloid mongrels and other such terms.

    The Sami are tough realistic people with their own biases. They have improved their condition by preserving and reviving their culture while using legal and public relations to advance their cause.They do not consider themselves to be victims.

    Mari Boine, About the Ban of Joik Youtube video explained how she felt when she learned what had been done to her people and how her generation was brainwashed to hate their own heritage. “My heart was a volcano of anger and rage.” She didn’t consider throwing rocks or sinking into a pit of anger and self pity, She wrote songs and became a music star.

    When we visited the Norwegian enclave, we learned Mari had sung at the college a couple of years before.

    Sofia Jannok is another star who uses her celebrety to enrich herself and promote her culture. She and others have made commercial versions of the joik mainstream. She interrupts her songs with political speeches, and she created a foundation to further Sami culture. SomBy, a Finnish-Sami rock band wears traditional garb when performing.

    :Parker wrote of Vietnamese and others who like the Sami fend for themselves. Whites have done more harm to blacks and Native Americans than they can imagine.

  • 377. James  |  November 24, 2013 at 12:29 pm

    A town in the next county has a Latin gheto. Their goal is to be as
    American as possible. If someone doesn’t care for his/her house or mow the lawn, a delegation visits and offers to help or advise how it is done in the US. They also circulate to discourage gang activity.

    A few Hispanics have moved into our relatives’ Dutch ghetto, and they do fine. The only negative comment I have heard is that they are poor snow drivers and tend to have auto accidents in winter.

  • 378. Alfie  |  November 24, 2013 at 12:30 pm

    Dead rabbit although I have all along felt Iran help better cards I can’t advocate your gloom.
    The Iranians are only getting back funds that are theirs.funds acquired in a manner that in other times would’ve started a war. Efforts to appreciate the evolution of the Middle East and the various ‘Stan’s as being far and away more than Israel centric are very much and belatedly needed.
    On one point I will wholeheartedly agree with you and stand with you. The Left and assorted Obama fanboys are busily spinning this as either the best Obama FP plays. It isn’t and in fact the previous plays such as “New Start” the Cairo speech that get touted are nothing burgers at best. About the only thing O and the Boyz have right on this one is that it is a stepping stone. It is in my opinion a no win path since the Iranians will never be viewed as regional equals and they will never back down from asserting their sovereignty. China will win in this deal. The US will lose. Assad wins in short term since the Iranians have money and a win win nod to assert regional play,they are on his side,we have chosen the wrong side in that one.
    China sends crumbs to Philipines we send carrier task force group. Spoiler….we aren’t leaving we have returned…again.
    Bottom line we are on a course we aren’t likely to enjoy.

  • 379. muffy  |  November 24, 2013 at 1:21 pm

    @#372 – I heard it differently, Occupy. I heard that Iran doesn’t go nuclear, innocent Iranian civilians are no longer punished, and right wing nutjobs are thwarted in their war against Muslims. All hail Obama. (I like that “paying tribute” remark by the way).

    Of course your synopsis favors insight over cheerleading the hero.

    ~

    A friend of mine grew up on the south side of Chicago and once likened living in the ghetto as a young boy to “Left 4 Dead” – a post-apocalyptic console game where the zombie enemies grab at you and can climb on you. Pretty striking imagery.

    http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100730140117/left4dead/images/d/db/Left_4_dead_2_004_dj47.jpg

    He said when he got out his ghetto friends were very angry with him.

  • 380. James  |  November 24, 2013 at 2:34 pm

    Its easy to trap people on the weak side into the corner of an argument. They often lash out like trapped animals.

    National affairs work the same. Negotiations in the 1920′s and 1930′s limited the size of navies, including Japan’s .Japanese felt the allies were limiting their ability to build a large navy. The collapse of the London treaty of 1936 fueled resentment in Japan and contributed to ultranationalism.

    I don’t trust the Iranians or Obama but Iran needs something tangible from the deal.So does Israel. They are talking to Saudi Arabia and several other countries hostile to Iran.

    Countries which feel trapped sometimes go to war. “we are on a course we aren’t likely to enjoy.”,

  • 381. Alfie  |  November 24, 2013 at 2:44 pm

    The Washington Treaty is a great example of what I alluded to earlier. Smugness and ineptness combining to create something that could be good or turn to crap.
    The P5 looking to defend their interests. The Iranians looking for their sovereignty assured.
    A lesson to take away is German “pocket battleships”.
    The US inability to compete with UK dreadnoughts.
    The strongest navy not being affected in any real sense on the short term.
    The comparisons to the present are numerous.

  • 382. James  |  November 24, 2013 at 2:45 pm

    Bombs led North Vietnam to negotiate. Likewise, sanctions will lead Iran to talk. We need something in return before we ease up on crippling their economy.

  • 383. Huck  |  November 24, 2013 at 2:59 pm

    “…they will never back down from asserting their sovereignty…”

    That’s correct. They won’t.

    Ever.

    I don’t know enough about the deal, as I have been working my ass off and had no time to read up. But this line stood out as I read over today’s comments.

  • 384. poolman  |  November 24, 2013 at 3:01 pm

    Why is it we are crippling their economy again? That ALWAYS hurts civilians and the weakest of those first, and is an act of war. Is it because Israel…?

  • 385. Huck  |  November 24, 2013 at 4:43 pm

    “Why is it we are crippling their economy again?”

    Because they overthrew our guy decades ago

  • 386. poolman  |  November 24, 2013 at 5:02 pm

    I guess nobody told them only we can remove our guy (only after he’s no longer useful, of course)

  • 387. poolman  |  November 24, 2013 at 6:11 pm

    I remember the shah had a hacienda in Lubbock, always occupied by airdogs, that had a pool. I understand he underwent flight training at the base there.

  • 388. James  |  November 24, 2013 at 9:05 pm

    378 “I heard that Iran doesn’t go nuclear…” I see you have been slumming, Muffy. I hope you enjoyed the entertainment.

    I read that the shah was a pilot, but I had no idea he ever was in Lubbock.

  • 389. poolman  |  November 24, 2013 at 9:58 pm

    His son was apparently the one that underwent the fighter jet training.

    http://www.lubbockcentennial.com/AJremembers/042008.shtml

  • 390. Rutherford  |  November 25, 2013 at 7:44 am

    So Rabbit what is your answer on Iran? Do you want sanctions ratcheted up until Iran gives up the entire enterprise? I’m not judging, I’m asking you.

    I have another puzzlement for you and the rest of the regulars. Why were the only folks at the table the ones with the least to lose? Why was Israel and Saudi Arabia not at the bargaining table?

  • 391. Rutherford  |  November 25, 2013 at 7:51 am

    “He said when he got out his ghetto friends were very angry with him.”

    I can vouch for this. A friend of mine Freshman year at Harvard returned to his ghetto home on breaks only to be abused and mocked as a sellout and (ironically) uppity.

    Sad. It comes down to the old cliche misery loves company.

  • 392. Rutherford  |  November 25, 2013 at 7:58 am

    I have a question inspired by the latest edition of PBS’s “Moyers and Company” (yes I like the show so all who are snickering right now can fuck off).

    What should be the goal of our young Americans: to be educated or to be trained?

  • 393. parker  |  November 25, 2013 at 9:17 am

    Rutherford – I don’t wish to speak for everyone, but from where I sit, I would say everyone here is quite fond of you and – although some might not admit it – have a certain amount of respect and even admiration.

    BUT it is easy to see that they are frustrated with you, and most black people in US, seeing them as dupes for the socialist state. I have to say I share that feeling. The big picture is clear and has been tried and tested the world over, time after time: the socialist state is a blueprint for misery.

    I used to think the socialists/nanny-statists were well-meaning but misguided. I don’t feel that way any more.

    I believe there are at least three tiers: those at the top, like Obama and company, are cynically attempting to buy votes and get power. They are smart; they have read history, and because they KNOW what they are doing, IMHO that makes them traitors – not a word I use lightly.

    Their supplicants, what I would call the second tier – “limousine liberals,” I believe they are called – are just misguided do-gooders. Not very smart, liberal college-educated, plenty of money. Perfect example is that Lori person at another blog which shall remain nameless.

    The third tier – the man in the street on assistance – doesn’t realize he’s just a pawn. It makes me so angry I could spit – America is/was a place like no other – really the Shining Light on the Hill – and these people are IMHO dragging it down the tubes.

    You should listen to your Bill Cosby. He is about the only clear-headed voice among your people.

    Rant over.

  • 394. poolman  |  November 25, 2013 at 11:25 am

    What should be the goal of our young Americans: to be educated or to be trained?

    I think everyone should be educated but only trained at certain skills, like at those they intend to earn a living. To me education should be ongoing throughout one’s life, but skills are learned and developed through practice. People should be trained in areas they show particular interest or talent. Some folks are not good fits in certain areas and should avoid them to reach any level of success.

    Now, that said, much of what we call education is rather indoctrination, so we need to make that distinction. Indoctrination is much more harmful and is always agenda driven. Together with state sponsored propaganda, education in America isn’t the same as knowledge sharing, but is tailored to produce subservient worker bees loyal to the state.

  • 395. Noah  |  November 25, 2013 at 2:14 pm

    I would add to that clear voice list Alfonzo Rachel.

  • 396. Huck  |  November 25, 2013 at 3:26 pm

    The only thing Democrats got right with ObamaCare is implementing it after the election. Had this shit been 14 months sooner, Obozo would have been 1 and done.

    Remember the “Romney screwed a woman with cancer” BS?

    Yeah…..

  • 397. Huck  |  November 25, 2013 at 4:14 pm

    “although some might not admit it – have a certain amount of respect and even admiration.”

    I do have a great deal of respect for Rutherford and have no problems admitting it.

    I’ve never encountered a guy that so greatly fit into the group that actually should get public assistance and yet works so hard to not have to get it. That’s commendable, regardless of our political differences.

  • 398. Rutherford  |  November 25, 2013 at 5:58 pm

    “The third tier – the man in the street on assistance – doesn’t realize he’s just a pawn.”

    You confuse me here. You call him a pawn which implies victim but you blame him for our nations downfall. In the three tier system you describe the man on assistance hasn’t engineered anything. Of the three tiers his is the least at fault.

  • 399. parker  |  November 25, 2013 at 6:43 pm

    Rutherford@397 – I do not see the man getting assistance as the problem, nor have I blamed him for the nation’s downfall, I hope. He is a normal man, responding to a defective system in a normal, human way. I think moralizing about him and his so-called moral lapses is the worst possible path, and here’s why:

    Once the problem gets personal, it leads to name-calling on both sides, viz: Right -> SLACKER! Left -> GREEDY BASTARDS DON’T WANT TO HELP A MAN DOWN ON HIS LUCK!

    Once that starts, it’s over – nobody’s talking to each other; there is gridlock and the problem does not get fixed. (Which is why, of course, the left – which makes its living by promoting class warfare – is always looking for some “good” PC reason to be offended about something the right says.)

    No, I see the man-in-the-street AS a victim, but not the one he thinks. He is the victim of deliberate class warfare, perpetrated by those who know better – using him solely as a path to power; I don’t think the people at the top on the left give a tinker’s damn about him, and – oddly enough it is IMHO the thinking people on the right (Yes, there are some.) who really care more about poor folks – and they care enough to take the time to fix it correctly, and not just take the easy path.

    I hope that makes sense on some level.

  • 400. Noah  |  November 25, 2013 at 8:23 pm

    Taking a pass on 362 R?

  • 401. Rutherford  |  November 25, 2013 at 9:48 pm

    Noah I don’t see comment numbers on my iPhone so I’ll have to respond when I get some time on my PC.

  • 402. dead rabbit  |  November 25, 2013 at 10:26 pm

    Well my boy took his first right hook to the face. I watched it happened with acute curiosity.

    To my boy’s credit, and I’m a sports realist that is fully aware when my own kid sucks ( take soccer for example), he kicked this kid’s ass in wrestling for an hour. His poor victim, another 4 year old, throw a right hook in desperation at one point. Direct hit on the jaw. I heard it. It was disturbing yet fascinating at the same time. My boy dropped to one knee and fought back crying for about 20 seconds and then hopped back up on both feet awaiting instruction. He looked right at me….I’m talking eye contact. I didn’t give him the slightest reaction. 1 minute later he was back to kicking the kid’s ass within the rules of folk style wrestling.

    Proud Dad.

  • 403. dead rabbit  |  November 25, 2013 at 10:38 pm

    ” I do not see the man getting assistance as the problem, nor have I blamed him for the nation’s downfall, I hope. He is a normal man, responding to a defective system” -Parker

    You know, I would agree with you if the man was only a father to his kids. But he isn’t. So I moralize. In fact, its more them that. I don’t know how we are the same species. Perhaps I’m naive. But, I swear there are no social forces, no disgusting progressive dependency gulag, that could break the bonds I have with my sons. It seems instinctive, like those sad ass turtles who are all born at once and have to crawl to the ocean because nature tells them to. Years later they return to the same spot to lay eggs

    At wrestling practice I must have thanked God a hundred times for letting me experience being a Dad. Talk about a gift.

  • 404. Alfie  |  November 25, 2013 at 11:15 pm

    What should be the goal of our young Americans: to be educated or to be trained?
    The question is kind of awkward in a few ways. Its funny since I don’t know your context here but I’ve been getting deeper into the topic of education for some real world reasons. I’m a fan of E. Hersch and the Core Knowledge Curriculum. Although not a mirror image it is one of the reasons I actually support the US Common Core standards. Critical thinking is great but more along the lines as pool man outlines,a lifelong kind of thing. Actual knowledge,proven skill sets whether white,blue or gray color in nature is what is better for a society. It brings the freedom to explore a lifetime of education.

  • 405. Alfie  |  November 25, 2013 at 11:23 pm

    Some moralizing is necessary though whether you do it via a religious angle or pure secular one. The underclass is created without a doubt from a system that not only condones certain behaviors but supports it in an active manner. A great example of the latter is how benefits don’t get scaled. A person/family starts to see the light and is near taking a step or two up the ladder and the response is ** SNIP** you’re cut off. The lesson?don’t grow. That is some sick $%!^
    The flip side is that the depths free will humanity can go to on its own can never be underestimated.

  • 406. Noah  |  November 26, 2013 at 1:36 am

    A worthy read.

    http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2013/11/lying-liberal-liars.html?showComment=1385265935631

  • 407. an800lbgorilla  |  November 26, 2013 at 9:01 am

    How look, another bastion of racial tolerance…

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=489_1385264788

  • 408. an800lbgorilla  |  November 26, 2013 at 9:04 am

    Wow….. ANOTHER example of liberal tolerance….

    If you are a white male, you don’t deserve to live. You are a cancer, you’re a disease, white males have never contributed anything positive to the world! They only murder, exploit and oppress non-whites! At least a white woman can have sex with a black man and make a brown baby but what can a white male do? He’s good for nothing. Slavery, genocides against aboriginal peoples and massive land confiscation, the inquisition, the holocaust, white males are all to blame! You maintain your white male privilege only by oppressing, discriminating against and enslaving others!” Professor Noel Ignatiev, a tenured professor at Massachusetts College loudly proclaimed to his class last Monday, his final teaching day before retirement.

  • 409. parker  |  November 26, 2013 at 11:12 am

    regards prof Ignatiev – “The exception proves the rule.” Needs no further consideration, IMHO.

    regards moralizing to/about the third-tier guy, if I may be allowed to continue that analogy: It seems to me that it may be appropriate to moralize at times, but my experience is that it is a dead-end street – in every way. It pisses off the third tier guy and gives ammo to the second- and first- to use against you. It’s a La Brea Tar Pit for those who really do know what to do to fix the problem. Don’t step in it; they have the trap set for you; deprive them of it.

    Instead you, in your mind, sit down beside your liberal opponent and say, “Look, nobody is happy here, least of all the (third tier guy). What can we do to REALLY make his life better? And when they start that, “take money by force from those who have it and give it to those who don”t” stuff, really examine that idea with them and show them that it has never worked, does not work, never will work – perfect example is American lottery winners.

    That is my idea. Maybe too polyanna; I don’t know, but the arguing and screaming ain’t working, and you can’t just bully your way over top of everybody.

  • 410. dead rabbit  |  November 26, 2013 at 12:39 pm

    Ahh……its cool headed Pfessor. Until he isn’t. Yes, there isn’t probably a debate out there in which yelling is effective.

    But….blowing off some steam bitching about the welfare savages might serve a purpose for those of us that have to deal with them.

  • 411. poolman  |  November 26, 2013 at 1:24 pm

    I love live to bless the hell out of them.

  • 412. Rutherford  |  November 26, 2013 at 5:38 pm

    “Yes, there isn’t probably a debate out there in which yelling is effective.”

    Speaking of yelling, last night one of my team leads pissed me off and I shot a message into the chat room entirely upper case. Dude private-messages me that all caps can be interpreted as yelling. I came damn close to telling him “no shit Sherlock, what do you think I was doing?”

    All for 10 bucks an hour.

  • 413. parker  |  November 26, 2013 at 7:19 pm

    Rutherford – remember: If they piss you off, that means they are smarter than you. And vice versa.

    I think you are about the right age – remember the American film, “Patton?”

    “No sonofabitch ever won a war by dying for his country, he won the war by making the other dumb sonofabitch die for HIS country.”

    The only step required for being immune – completely proof against being angered by the other fellow – is to eschew all respect for him. Once you do that, you are untouchable. Then you can rile HIM at will, and he can’t do a bloody thing to YOU.

    Now go and make those dumb sonofabitches die for their country.

    Enjoy. No thanks necessary.

  • 414. muffy  |  November 26, 2013 at 7:54 pm

    I met a man today. He didn’t mince his words. Why he felt inspired to lay it on me like he did I couldn’t say. But I listened a longish while (long for two strangers) until we both had to move along.

    He worked in the Chicago prison system, and he had a gift for gab that rivaled Tex. It was uncanny how he could have been a voice in the current discussion here and now – and I wished so much that he could have been.

    I couldn’t possibly retell all he said to me – but know that you are so right to keep it real, rabbit. Don’t even bother with the “talking about the talking” drivel.

    There’s a bad wind coming. I’ve had 3 similar conversations in recent weeks – all with with strangers, and all concerning what ails America. It isn’t the white man that the professor in G’s link rails against. It’s the professor himself.

    Today’s messenger was a black man with a heavy accent that I could only place by the continent – African – perhaps Somalia. He mentioned Somalia too. He mentioned Cosby as well, and Jackson, Obama and Sharpton. He sounded as tortured as a man can be over the lack of a public figure that will speak the truth and provide something for the fatherless children to hold onto. He shook his fist at the media as I sat there in stunned silence. We treat our pets better than we treat another human being, he pounded his fist.

    I can tell you this much – he would be the first to tell the professor to go and lie no more.

    This man today had 4 children ranging in age from 17 to 30. The two older girls had advanced degrees and the eldest worked in social services – helping people along as she evidently felt called to do. His youngest boy was home at the moment for sure – this man always knew where to find his boy at any time of any day. His 20 year old – now a man – was on a train making his way home from college for Thanksgiving.

    I swear the guy even talked about training vs education. And indoctrination.

    He pleaded with the world as I listened – his voice squeaked with suppressed intensity – pleaded with men who leave their ten or twelve male children to be the man of the house at too tender an age. He pleaded with the women he has known that say into the microphone shoved in their face – not my boy, my boy is a good boy – knowing her boy is not a good boy but he is the man-child whose drug money helps support his mama and his younger half-siblings. Fourteen, fifteen year old boys who have been taught nothing about life – not even what it means to die. Thirteen, fourteen year old girls having babies with boys and men who desperately want to feel good.

    The black man in America today is Cain and he is anguished and he will slay his brother because of men like the professor in G’s link. That’s what a man told me today. I tend to believe him, and it saddens me.

  • 415. #Occupy Narcissism  |  November 26, 2013 at 8:09 pm

  • 416. Rutherford  |  November 26, 2013 at 9:32 pm

    LOL Parker I got the ultimate revenge when the dude was forced to tell me to take over for him while he was at lunch. I know having to tell me that really burned his ass. :evil:

  • 417. Rutherford  |  November 26, 2013 at 9:42 pm

    Muffy I don’t say this to dismiss your well thought out comment but your post does beg the question why are you spending so much time talking to strange men? Particularly in Chicagotown? :-)

  • 418. Rutherford  |  November 26, 2013 at 9:44 pm

    By the way Muffy you met a black man willing to be honest about our plight and you didn’t invite him to comment on the Rutherford Lawson Blog? Surely the dude has a computer.

  • 419. muffy  |  November 26, 2013 at 11:24 pm

    @ Rutherford – one of the many benefits of a world class public transportation system.

    It never ceases to amaze me what people are willing to share when they think that someone is listening.

  • 420. Huck  |  November 27, 2013 at 2:26 pm

    Oh look. Another year-long delay given to only certain people.

    Why it seems like only a month ago that seeking delays on ObamaCare implimentation was labelled as “hostage taking,” terrorism,” and “arson.” Now here we we see Obama giving them out like candy to some and denying them to others.

    Just like we knew he would….

  • 421. Huck  |  November 27, 2013 at 2:41 pm

    So Iran is now saying that the White House is full of shit regarding the details of the agreement. And the White House is not denying that, basically saying they only announced a general outline, and the details will be worked out later.

    We’ve now reached a point where the Iranian mullahs are more truthful and forthcoming than the President of the United States.

    But since it’s close to Thanksgiving, let’s look on the bright side. Thanks to Kim Jong Un, there is still some room before Barack Obama hits the very bottom.

  • 422. Huck  |  November 27, 2013 at 2:49 pm

    More cancer patients getting screwed by Obama’s law.

    But Mitt Romney something something….

  • 423. Raji  |  November 27, 2013 at 7:55 pm

    Happy Thanksgiving to all.

  • 424. poolman  |  November 27, 2013 at 7:56 pm

    Happy days are here again. At the the bottom everything is up.

  • 425. Tex Taylor  |  November 27, 2013 at 11:19 pm

    Sorry about my absence “congenial gang.” Inside joke…that only the Fat Grannies crowd would understand.

    Been busy with house and family.
    :idea:

    Happy Thanksgiving to all…

  • 426. Noah  |  November 28, 2013 at 12:43 am

    Happy Turkey-day one and all.

    Wasn’t that some Jean woman that said that? That Namaste wench?

  • 427. poolman  |  November 28, 2013 at 1:32 am

    Happy Thanksgiving! Eat slow and often. Pace yourselves…

  • 429. Rutherford  |  November 28, 2013 at 8:27 am

    Happy Gobble Day to one and all.

  • 430. parker  |  November 28, 2013 at 9:14 am

    Chain-smoking American Congresswoman blames her lung cancer on … wait for it…

    ASBESTOS!

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielfisher/2013/11/26/chain-smoking-congresswomans-asbestos-suit-shows-new-trend/2/

    Yep, Americans have a lot to be thankful for on holiday. The legal system, most of all.

  • 431. El Tigre  |  November 28, 2013 at 11:49 am

    Wait. Someone in Dr. Demento’s eyes filed a frivolous lawsuit? How dare they? How will it turn out? What if they get away with it? No need t find out. The proof is all there. The legal system is broke!

    And here I was worried about sleazy and fraudulent medical practices and billing, like out-of-control Medicare fraud, running up the costs of healthcare — like the ones Dr. Demento claims he defends (albeit unsuccessfully) with his vast courtroom experience.

    Turns out it’s all those unadjudicated lawsuits anecdotally referenced in a poorly-reasoned article will ruin my holidays.

    Thanksgiving is now caput. Thanks Forbes.

    (stupid piece)

  • 432. muffy  |  November 28, 2013 at 12:36 pm

    Sorry Tigre but the exception proves the rule, just ask Gosnell over there.

    Except in the case of lawyers – they’re the exception to the exception proves the rule. *hic* And something something. And racism.

    Happy Thanksgiving everyone and if any lefty mutherfukkers start anything at the table I’m taking them out.

    Cheers!

    XOXOXOXO

  • 433. muffy  |  November 28, 2013 at 12:42 pm

    :lol: Congenital gang, Tex.

  • 434. poolman  |  November 28, 2013 at 1:07 pm

    Yep, the legal system isn’t the problem at all. It’s those damn ignorant citizens that don’t know what’s best for them. That’s why we need to force the nanny state, for their own good…

    An appeals court ruling in October granted an attorney, who’s also a registered nurse, limited guardianship over Sarah and the power to make medical decisions for her. The court said the beliefs and convictions of her parents can’t outweigh the rights of the state to protect the child.

    http://gma.yahoo.com/amish-girl-leukemia-family-flees-us-avoid-chemotherapy-140153559–abc-news-topstories.html?vp=1

  • 435. poolman  |  November 28, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    At least we don’t have the courts ruling in favor of religious rites. Right?

    An Israeli rabbinic court is fining a woman hundreds of dollars for refusing to circumcise her infant son.

    The court ruled last week that circumcision was for the child’s welfare and that the woman must pay the equivalent of nearly $150 each day she refuses to have him circumcised.

    The woman told the court she refuses to physically harm her son.

    It was the first time a religious court in Israel has punished a parent for refusing to circumcise a child.

    There is no law requiring circumcision in Israel, but the vast majority of Jews are circumcised, in line with Jewish law. Rabbinic courts have authority over certain family matters.

    The Justice Ministry, which is representing the mother, said Thursday it would likely appeal the case to Israel’s Supreme Court.

    http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/israel-court-fines-woman-circumcising-son-21041276

  • 436. Alfie  |  November 28, 2013 at 1:32 pm

    @ Huck 420. I’ve compared two releases and don’t see where either side is coming in their respective strikings of their own bases.

    Professor Ignatiev story is a web based satire although the good professors reality is almost as bad. He isn’t against white people he is one of those that rail against concepts such as the white race and white privilege .

    I drove pass a field yesterday with at least twenty wild turkeys roaming in it. I was amused by the thought that these twenty plus road hazards are oblivious to what their domesticated brethren will experience today. On that note I say again Happy Thanksgiving Day to all.

  • 437. El Tigre  |  November 28, 2013 at 2:23 pm

    “At least we don’t have the courts ruling in favor of religious rites. Right?”

    But it’s a fine line between you and the Zionists. . .

    or Dominionists. :roll:

  • 438. El Tigre  |  November 28, 2013 at 2:29 pm

    Just curious Poolman, can you think of why it might be that a “court of appeals” would appoint a temporary guardian?

    Cue the Jeopardy music. . .

    Hey, I’ll bet Dr. Dewers might like the appointment on a permanent basis so he could be sure that girl could get an abortion over her parents’ objections.

  • 439. poolman  |  November 28, 2013 at 2:41 pm

    can you think of why it might be that a “court of appeals” would appoint a temporary guardian?

    Dozens. Can you think of when it might be okay for the state to force your child to take poison? Just curious…

  • 440. Alfie  |  November 28, 2013 at 2:50 pm

    pool man did you read your own link or only offer it as a jew slam? Do you have a working knowledge of the jewish religious court system,its historical divisions of orthodox and zionist wings and that the civil courts in the State of Israel have a good record of bashing the religious courts via overturning rulings and establishing precedents?
    Rabbinical law is an international curiosity and comes up often in political punditry secondary to parallels with Sharia.
    I honestly don’t know why I am not peeling potatoes instead of entering this fray but seriously?!?!
    Off to the the taters

  • 441. El Tigre  |  November 28, 2013 at 3:02 pm

    Nope.

    Try my question, Sean Connery.

  • 442. poolman  |  November 28, 2013 at 3:14 pm

    pool man did you read your own link or only offer it as a jew slam?

    Really? That is a real question? Of course I read it, I posted the whole thing verbatim. Is your use of lower case for Jew a slam? I am just pointing out religion’s dangerous overreach, something often pointed out by many who frequent here.

  • 443. poolman  |  November 28, 2013 at 3:16 pm

    Nope.

    Try my question, Sean Connery.

    Your answer to mine renders yours moot.

  • 444. poolman  |  November 28, 2013 at 3:25 pm

  • 445. Huck  |  November 28, 2013 at 5:43 pm

    But hey…Obama said sorry….sorry that those evil insurance companies aren’t keeping his promise.

    Oh…and Happy Thanksgiving, everyone

  • 446. Rutherford  |  November 28, 2013 at 6:30 pm

    “Happy Thanksgiving everyone and if any lefty mutherfukkers start anything at the table I’m taking them out.”
    :lol: Now that’s holiday cheer worthy of a greeting card. Hallmark are you listening?

  • 447. Rutherford  |  November 28, 2013 at 6:32 pm

    “And something something. And racism.”

    I hate to encourage Muffy but that is one joke that cracks me up every time.

    Bla bla bla … and racism. :lol:

  • 448. Rutherford  |  November 28, 2013 at 6:36 pm

    “An Israeli rabbinic court is fining a woman hundreds of dollars for refusing to circumcise her infant son.”

    Jewish version of Sharia, heh Poolman. I’ll be interested to see how the other regulars react to your post.

  • 449. Rutherford  |  November 28, 2013 at 6:39 pm

    “Dominionists”

    Forgive me if I’m wrong but aren’t the dominionists a fascination of PF, not Poolman?

  • 450. Rutherford  |  November 28, 2013 at 7:46 pm

    “I am just pointing out religion’s dangerous overreach, something often pointed out by many who frequent here.”

    Actually I take issue with the word “many”. The only folks here who consistently warn of religious overreach are me and Pfessor.

  • 451. Rutherford  |  November 28, 2013 at 7:48 pm

    Clearly Huck needs another helping of sweet potato pie to cheer him up.

    My dinner is done and I’m off to work. My consolation: I’m earning time and a half tonight.

    Gobble gobble.

  • 452. Alfie  |  November 28, 2013 at 8:03 pm

    I asked a series of questions pools in context of something greater. You are obviously not interested in a discussion. Fine with me.

    Rutherford 449 you’re smug when you’re laden with turkey. You and PF do not address what has been improperly portrayed as “religious overreach” here. Not to toot my own horn but I did indeed bring up the sharia angle in 439

  • 453. Tex Taylor  |  November 28, 2013 at 8:21 pm

    Is that what Aunt Liki Liki uses? Congenital gang? :lol:

    No wonder that place is so screwed up. They were born defective. Here it was I thought they had to work really hard to learn to be that stupid.

    Salami, Baloney, Eggo my Lego! :razz:

  • 454. El Tigre  |  November 29, 2013 at 12:20 am

    “Forgive me if I’m wrong but aren’t the dominionists a fascination of PF, not Poolman?”

    Why yes, it is, hence your next comment directed at the one that started the conversation . . .

    “Actually I take issue with the word “many”. The only folks here who consistently warn of religious overreach are me and Pfessor.”

    See how that works? Law and the religious freedoms applied to the abortionist and ant-Semitic whose complaints about a “broken” system depend not on due process, but whether they agree with the potential outcome of a case boiled down to a sensationalized paragraph or two from a biased source.

    You talking about government overreach in any area just can’t be taken seriously. Really.

  • 455. Huck  |  November 29, 2013 at 2:57 am

    “You talking about government overreach in any area just can’t be taken seriously. Really.”

    That ain’t no shit.

  • 456. Noah  |  November 29, 2013 at 3:54 am

    http://danfromsquirrelhill.wordpress.com/2013/08/15/obama-252/

  • 457. dead rabbit  |  November 29, 2013 at 11:32 am

    I can’t imagine a more miserable experience then being out there with the mob shopping for deals on Chinese garbage.

    For every story you hear about or read about in which the ignorant mob turns violent over a blue light special at Kmart just imagine how the Roman mob will act in time of a real emergency. Then go take inventory of your ammo.

  • 458. an800lbgorilla  |  November 29, 2013 at 12:16 pm

    ET,

    Just sent you an email. Couple quick questions.

    Thanks

    Happy thanksgiving everyone!

  • 459. poolman  |  November 29, 2013 at 12:21 pm

    I’m with you, rabbit. I avoid the crowds and the malls, especially today. Unfortunately I have to get out and about later and check a few projects.

    Most retail businesses expect to bring up their bottom line based on sales between now and Christmas. Some have profit margins so small, they are in the red until this time of year.

    I can’t help them. I am not interested in buying any of their crap.

    Restaurants do their best from now until just after the new year. I’ll give them a little of my business, not near the amount we have in years past. Food is always in style.

  • 460. poolman  |  November 29, 2013 at 12:25 pm

    Actually I take issue with the word “many”. The only folks here who consistently warn of religious overreach are me and Pfessor.

    Hello? Islamic extremists anyone?

  • 461. poolman  |  November 29, 2013 at 12:53 pm

    I asked a series of questions pools in context of something greater. You are obviously not interested in a discussion. Fine with me.

    Your lead question infers different intent. The question following it appears legit and worthy of discussion. I don’t see a series. Your last question is more rhetorical or a case of ‘thinking out loud’.

    As to your legitimate inquiry, my knowledge of the current state of Israel regarding the secular and religious courts and conflicts, rulings and rites – I do have a working knowledge, yes, but it is limited and still developing. The state is currently in much turmoil. The gaps between the religious and secular and left and right is widening. Their policies and laws have made it an apartheid state. There is no other ‘democracy’ where racism plays a bigger role.

    This book is both very informative and also very controversial. I tend to agree with the author.

  • 462. parker  |  November 29, 2013 at 12:54 pm

    A sitting American congresswoman’s filing a large asbestos claim, having chain-smoked her entire life and developed the expected lung cancer, is hardly a matter for someone claiming to be a serious lawyer to ridicule. It simply demonstrates how the American culture of the contingency fee and unlimited liability continues to cripple American commerce on all levels, and how bold even the congress has become in fleecing Americans.

    That sort of thing doesn’t happen in places that require the plaintiff to have what you people call “a dog in the hunt” – which is to say, the loser in a suit pays all costs, and the contingency fee is outlawed. In US, the defendant bears all the responsibility and will often settle unreasonable lawsuits. That doesn’t happen here, and most suits never come to trial because both sides are eying the hefty cost of losing and thus negotiate a settlement.

    Sorry, but that weatherworn old argument by a practicing solicitor reminds me of (Twain’s) comment about two foxes and a duck arguing about what to have for dinner. (That metaphor may be wrong – can’t remember the original.) What a surprise that a lawyer would find the Forbes article ridiculous!

  • 463. dead rabbit  |  November 29, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    “That sort of thing doesn’t happen in places that require the plaintiff to have what you people call “a dog in the hunt”

    Man….my experience is that as soon as it goes to trial everyone has a dog in the hunt. Sure you don’t have to pay the lawyer if you lose, but you are on the hook for a ton of other shit that can total in the tens of thousands.

    In Michigan there are a couple interesting laws. I swear in most cases you really can’t settle for more then a half million. There is also a 50 50 rule. If a jury finds you to be 50 percent at fault and some product or service also 50 percent at fault only your medical bills are game to be sought after.

    Suing doctors and actually getting paid is harder then I thought. I know some people who won these huge settlements but then never get a dime. Not sure why.

    These are all just shallow musings from my experience or witnessing the experience of someone I know.

    All and all I now think the “easy lawsuit world” might be a little exaggerated by the right.

    Take the iconic hot coffee lawsuit against McDonald’s. I used to be outraged by that one. Until I learned how hot the coffee was served in that instance. What the fuck!

  • 464. Huck  |  November 29, 2013 at 2:36 pm

    “Do you know why there is no GOP alternative to Obamacare? Because Obamacare IS the GOP solution.”

    What the fuck….?

    I think Rutherford got ahold of some tainted turkey.

  • 465. Noah  |  November 29, 2013 at 4:21 pm

    No alternative? HSA? A reminder when you get in front of a computer my previous post still stands R.

  • 466. poolman  |  November 29, 2013 at 7:51 pm

    Are you magic bullet people good with the earthquake that just occurred 62km from Iran’s only nuclear power plant as pure coincidence? Just curious how that plays out in a less skeptical mind.

  • 467. Alfie  |  November 29, 2013 at 8:20 pm

    Iran is known for earthquakes and its deadliest/strongest predate HARRP or any other man made earth shaking meteorological phenomenon.

  • 468. James  |  November 29, 2013 at 9:11 pm

    I agree with Alfie, Iran is on a fault line and over a long period of time, earth quakes are the norm.

    A half hour after we left for home, our daughter called to say our grand daughter stood and supported herself with her hand on the coffee table long enough for our daughter to get a picture. She can support herself in a sitting position without help for up to an hour and a half. She is only a little over five months old, but her small head’s relatively low weight may give her an advantage.

    She is happy and babbles a lot. A Thanksgiving guest asked “Don’t you have any pictures where she isn’t smiling. She knows how to work a camera.

  • 469. James  |  November 29, 2013 at 9:17 pm

    412 Parker, it is what I try to do You know you are winning an argument when your opponent explores a tangent, or calls you names.

  • 470. Rutherford  |  November 29, 2013 at 9:41 pm

    OK Noah … I’ve finally got some sit down time at the puter and I now see comment 362.

    I think you are missing the point. They can be living out of a shoe box and none of this changes. It is not their status level that is at issue here nor any of these other imaginings.

    This did not answer my point at all. One of the ways we can judge a person’s solution to poverty is to observe their attitude toward the poor. If you have the mistaken notion that the poor are “living large” on the crumbs you give them, then it is no surprise that you would advocate no more crumbs. Since your premise is flawed, so must be your solution.

    We should never have a the minority silenced

    Would you not agree there is a difference between silencing the minority and taking steps to make sure work gets done? The filibuster as it is currently employed and as I understand it, is not used to give the minority the chance to convince the majority that they are wrong. On the contrary it is used to stop all true debate and prevent the Senate from making any true progress. I don’t see how you can’t find that dysfunctional.

  • 471. Huck  |  November 29, 2013 at 10:06 pm

    “Would you not agree there is a difference between silencing the minority and taking steps to make sure work gets done?”

    Rutherford, the filibuster, in any form, is meant to halt the process. It always has been. The way it is being used is nothing new or novel.

    What do you think a 24-hour speech does?

    This is nothing more than petrified Democrats in the Senate tossing a bone to their base during the ObamaCare fiasco that could very well alter Senate make-up.

    Let’s see how well you and your fellow Dems like the new rules, should that happen.

  • 472. dead rabbit  |  November 29, 2013 at 10:47 pm

  • 473. Alfie  |  November 29, 2013 at 11:01 pm

    Yeah I done get how anyone thinks the filibuster/nuclear option is a good thing. I could support something that makes filibusters real,like the Rand Paul one. The protections of the minority is important for our actually having a functional government. I think we are being treated to a front row seat of the ideological divide our host stands across from the majority of us. Rutherford either consciously or sub-consciously believes in elitist,technocratic dominance. I am sure of this now more than ever

  • 474. James  |  November 29, 2013 at 11:03 pm

    The Senate was intended to be a much slower deliberative body than the House, and as such Senators were not directly elected by the voters.

    As others have written, the filibuster is meant to stop or slow legislation to prompt compromise or to let cooler heads prevail ObmaCare is one law which should have been filibustered into oblivian.

    Democrats will reap the whirlwind if Republicans gain control of the Senate.

  • 475. Alfie  |  November 29, 2013 at 11:07 pm

    I don’t know whether to sit in front of the computer mouth agape in shock or to cry upon reading between the lines that Rutherford is such a bleeding heart liberal regards the “poor”. Again strong evidence of his liberal credentials and technocrat elitist love in.

    Rutherford I think you truly believe the “poor” are in most cases worthy of the title. I also think it clear you advocate that they are in no way remotely responsible for their plight. You’re emphatically wrong on both counts but you can rest easy by stating my views show I simply don’t care about those in need.

  • 476. Alfie  |  November 29, 2013 at 11:14 pm

    I would love to hear folks opinions on the thinking found in this piece from progressive/libbie rag American Prospect
    A lot of angles to it. I found it thought provoking,cunning and maddening.

  • 477. dead rabbit  |  November 29, 2013 at 11:39 pm

    I would say a good junk of the poor are in many ways not responsible for their plight. They are grandfathered into sheer ignorance. Low IQ, the losers’ fate sealed by generational ignorance. The problem is Rutherford’s medicine is exactly what reinforces this cyclical loserdom 10 fold.

    I’ve met many people who were doomed from the start.

    I know I would have been as my character is naturally inclined to be flawed.

    Traditional Americans give more money in charity then any cheap ass jive talking tight wad liberal. Rutherford needs to get off the high horse. I bet Rutherford’s track record of charity is pretty stingy. That’s we wants a nanny to force taxes out of him. Its all feel good stuff and pretty damn self centered. He doesn’t really care if dependency on hand outs kills the state park bears. He wants to feel good about his road trip with out actually driving.

  • 478. Noah  |  November 30, 2013 at 12:20 am

    “This did not answer my point at all. One of the ways we can judge a person’s solution to poverty is to observe their attitude toward the poor. If you have the mistaken notion that the poor are “living large” on the crumbs you give them, then it is no surprise that you would advocate no more crumbs. Since your premise is flawed, so must be your solution.”

    My point in all of this is that it is a semantic point not worth considering except maybe here for the sake of having a pleasant or not so pleasant conversation. Our current system set up as it is traps people into a life of poverty. That is has created generational poverty should not longer be open for debate. If the person is well intended or not, the end results tend to be the same. As a Conservative, I want a welfare system, and unemployment for that matter, that keeps people engaged at some level ALL of the time so that I no longer need to bother trying to understand if they are well intended or not.

    We should never have a the minority silenced

    “Would you not agree there is a difference between silencing the minority and taking steps to make sure work gets done? The filibuster as it is currently employed and as I understand it, is not used to give the minority the chance to convince the majority that they are wrong. On the contrary it is used to stop all true debate and prevent the Senate from making any true progress. I don’t see how you can’t find that dysfunctional.”

    That would depend on the circumstances of the stop. Considering the number of bills/proposals/amendments that have been blocked, I believe that it is Democrats who are creating a situation where politically Republicans HAVE to stand up and stall. If Democrats are only putting up or allowing legislation that puts them in a good light and there is no real compromise coming, then what other alternative would Republicans have but to grind things to a halt. I am by no means suggesting Republicans have no skin in the game on this, but you sure as hell are not placing any of the blame at the feet of Democrats.

    Either way the points by others have said it better than I. This has bad mojo written all over it and you can bet there will be hell to pay when the shoe is on the other foot, and this will serve no one well. Just remember who pressed the button.

  • 479. El Tigre  |  November 30, 2013 at 12:32 am

    G, response sent.

  • 480. Rutherford  |  November 30, 2013 at 12:40 am

    “Not to toot my own horn but I did indeed bring up the sharia angle in 439″

    You did indeed. I just hadn’t seen it yet before my own Sharia response to Pools.

    Perhaps someone better versed in Judaism could wise me up as to the origin of the Jewish circumcision tradition. Is it hygiene based or superstition based? If it is the latter it is good evidence why largely superstition based religion has no place in our legal system.

  • 481. poolman  |  November 30, 2013 at 12:43 am

    re: the American Prospect piece… Not surprisingly, I find it wrong on many levels. The best part was the comment section. Not many progressive comments with any depth in the blogosphere nowadays.

  • 482. Rutherford  |  November 30, 2013 at 12:49 am

    “This is nothing more than petrified Democrats in the Senate tossing a bone to their base during the ObamaCare fiasco that could very well alter Senate make-up. ”

    I completely disagree. Reid had this opportunity before and passed it up. Had he only been interested in the base he would have done this ages ago. This was done because enough is enough.

    As for your assessment that this is nothing new, compare the frequency of filibuster over the Obama admin to the years prior. Clearly we have a new phenomenon albeit not a new technique.

    The only part of your comment I agree with is that what goes around comes around. If the GOP gains control of the Senate the Dems will scream bloody murder at what they themselves hath wrought.

  • 483. poolman  |  November 30, 2013 at 12:51 am

    I won’t educate you in the tradition of circumcision, Rutherford, but I will mention there is one sect of Judaism that sucks the blood from the incision on the penis as part of the ritual.

    Consult the google…

  • 484. El Tigre  |  November 30, 2013 at 12:58 am

    @461, PF, lawyers that work on contingencies are invested in the outcome — sometimes to a huge degree.

    We do have fee shifting and other sanctions for frivolous lawsuits. Most states also have fee shifting under what is called demand/offer of judgment rules enacted as part as tort reform bills.

    If it weren’t for contingency fees, the meso cases refereed to in your Forbes piece (the real victims) wouldn’t have been brought either.

    Nor would any of the “religious freedoms” cases Poolman tries to invoke if the plaintiffs had to pay for counsel (over a foundation or other fund) let alone pay the government (or whatever other offending entity) its fees and expenses in the event one loses at the hands of relatively unlimited resources.

    And frankly, you need to shut the fuck up about what a “serious lawyer” might do or say in response to anything you write. You’re like the Kanye West of commentary about my profession. The Perfect Storm of arrogance and ignorance. You don’t know what you’re talking about and it’s obvious to anyone that knows something about the subject. All it takes to file a lawsuit is $100 bucks and a signature. Let us know later if the suit you contend frivolous is tossed and if not what the courts rationale is for keeping it before you start ranting.

  • 485. Rutherford  |  November 30, 2013 at 2:20 am

    “there is one sect of Judaism that sucks the blood from the incision on the penis as part of the ritual”

    Now that’s some kinky shit–genital mutilation and pedophelia all wrapped up into one.

  • 486. Huck  |  November 30, 2013 at 2:45 am

    “This was done because enough is enough.”

    Oh, horseshit. You all have been screaming about “party of no” and “obstruction” for years. If it was about enough is enough, Reid would have done it any of the other times he threatened to do so.

    There’s a reason it was done now. See below.

    “Reid had this opportunity before and passed it up. Had he only been interested in the base he would have done this ages ago.”

    Thank you for helping to make my point.

    ObamaCare hadn’t been proven to be a complete clusterfuck “ages ago.” Now that it has been enacted and proven as such, Senate dems who supported it…as in, all of them…need to show the base that they aren’t completely gutless as well as stupid.

    They’re afraid of being primaried, pure and simple. As they should be.

  • 487. Rutherford  |  November 30, 2013 at 2:47 am

    The American Prospect piece lives or dies on our nonpartisan view of the duty of the media.

    I thought back in the day a station could only get FCC approval if they had a certain percentage of public affairs programming. And as I recall most local stations met this obligation during low viewership time slots.

    I think it is a very legit question to ask does the media have an obligation to educate, beyond some partisan spin.

    Just imagine a world in which Fox News said “we hate this law with every fiber of our being but we don’t want our loyal viewers fined so here’s a 60 minute special on how to purchase an ACA approved policy”.

    Just how much of our news today informs and educates? Very damn little. Everybody is just telling their own white lies (lib and conservative).

  • 488. Huck  |  November 30, 2013 at 2:48 am

    “Not many progressive comments with any depth in the blogosphere nowadays”

    Nowadays?

  • 489. Rutherford  |  November 30, 2013 at 2:50 am

    By the way I think the comments section of The Rutherford Lawson Blog beats that of American Prospect any day. :-)

  • 490. Huck  |  November 30, 2013 at 2:52 am

    “Just imagine a world in which Fox News said “we hate this law with every fiber of our being but we don’t want our loyal viewers fined taxed so here’s a 60 minute special on how to purchase an ACA approved policy”. ”

    Fixed it for you.

    Remember, according to Democrats lawyers who defended the mandate to the US Supreme Court, the “fine” is now a “tax”, which is why the SCOTUS upheld it.

  • 491. Rutherford  |  November 30, 2013 at 2:54 am

    I’ll grant you the fine/tax distinction but I’d be more interested in your take on the role of the media.

  • 492. Alfie  |  November 30, 2013 at 10:43 am

    Rutherford know this. Rabbinical law serves the needs of the people religious beliefs. It is condoned by the state but when it butts heads w/ state the state tends to win.

  • 493. Tex Taylor  |  November 30, 2013 at 10:48 am

    You’re like the Kanye West of commentary about my profession.

    :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

    I’m going to keep that one for my personal repertoire.

  • 494. #Occupy Narcissism  |  November 30, 2013 at 11:12 am

    We interrupt Dancing with the Stars with the following breaking news.

    (Type writer noise)

    Walter Cronkite here,

    Breaking news. All young healthy people should gather your comrades and allow the government to plunder the last asset you have left, your health. Go to Healthcare.gov. It doesn’t matter if its not working. Sit there and look at Brazilian porn until it does. Also…it doesn’t matter if the back end isn’t even built yet. We are pulling all three investigative journalists that are covering waste and the failure of sweeping government programs and will now concentrate helping the state implement it’s policies.

    Keep it classy America.

  • 495. James  |  November 30, 2013 at 12:09 pm

    486, I agree Rutherford most of our main news sellers slant stories through omission or commission. However, excessive government regulation would make the situation worse, because the government is even more biased than the press.

    The domestic and foreign internet provides more objective news if one traces the origin of stories to their primary sources. Unfortunately, most people don’t have the time or inclination to do it. Most of us are lucky to be able to identify our own representatives.

    The founding fathers assumed an educated public aided by the press would maintain their creation.The media and its consumers are failing us.Sadly, bloggers like you and your conservative fellows may harbor more truth than the major news media and our government.

  • 496. James  |  November 30, 2013 at 12:11 pm

    Huck, I have also heard tell of shallow leftist comments on the blogosphere nowadays.

  • 497. James  |  November 30, 2013 at 12:16 pm

    An Orthodox Jewish prayer was something like “thank God I wasn’t born a woman.”

  • 498. poolman  |  November 30, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    I think it was thank G-d I wasn’t born a gentile.

  • 499. Noah  |  November 30, 2013 at 1:55 pm

    How cool is this guy? I think all of us to the right can relate.

  • 500. James  |  November 30, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    My Jewish Learning site says the prayer is recited by traditional Jewish men at the beginning of the daily morning prayers. “Blessed are you lord, our God, ruler of the universe who has not created me a woman.” They express similar gratitude over not being created a gentile or a slave.

  • 501. James  |  November 30, 2013 at 2:18 pm

    I like him. He does have a way with words. He is a smart man.

  • 502. Huck  |  November 30, 2013 at 2:50 pm

    “I’ll grant you the fine/tax distinction but I’d be more interested in your take on the role of the media.”

    The media is good for nothing more than an avenue of entertainment and mental masturbation. It can’t be relied on to educate because it cannot be trusted to be accurate or unbiased.

  • 503. Huck  |  November 30, 2013 at 4:45 pm

    It’s hilarious how badly Rutherford et al want to attach ObamaCare…err…the “Affordable” Care Act…to the GOP now that it is proving itself to be a joke.

    Barack Obama’s signature legislation is now supposedly the Republican alternative to health care reform.

  • 504. Huck  |  November 30, 2013 at 4:46 pm

    Is that 1 of the talking points OFA gave you for dinner table debates on Thanksgiving?

  • 505. Rutherford  |  November 30, 2013 at 4:59 pm

    Actually Huck you haven’t been paying attention. Obama himself and liberals like me have been reminding conservatives of ACA’s conservative roots since day 1.

    And let’s not forget Obama opposed the mandate before he supported it.

    On a side note, a paraphrase from journalist Josh Barro – “there are several conservative think tanks with alternatives to Obamacare but congress wants nothing to do with it.”

    Think about that a bit. Let that settle in your brain. The congressional GOP is NOT interested in improving health care for Americans. They are interested in obstruction plain and simple.

  • 506. Alfie  |  November 30, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    Rutherford you are perpetuating a lie and I am going to call you on it one more time. The lefts assertion that the PPACA has conservative roots is maliciously misrepresenting reality. STOP IT!!!
    The alleged roots have major difference. Tax credits NOT FUCKING DIRECT MONEY FROM THE GOVERNMENT being the biggest one. Medicaid on a state level experimenting what suits best at a local level via 1115 waivers as opposed to blanket Medicaid expansion which is unsustainable. Yeah the roots…fuck off! Mandate… It is a known reality that it is needed but the two major politicians that have embraced it were both against it before they were for it. No matter the Party and let’s be clear this is all you and yours now mofo the truth is the mandate comes from the insurance companies,you and yours making them rich.

    My anger on this is something you’ll get R even if you are not the worse source of irritation,no worries though I am spreading it around.
    Bottom line it is more honest to say same seed source but by no means roots.

  • 507. Alfie  |  November 30, 2013 at 5:52 pm

    Rutherford there is so much wrong with your childish:
    Think about that a bit. Let that settle in your brain. The congressional GOP is NOT interested in improving health care for Americans. They are interested in obstruction plain and simple.
    That I don’t know what to say.
    As a base line repealing all or at least most of the ACA would improve the long term health of both Americans and America.
    Every attempt to do something for the people has either been blocked by Harry Reid or threatened by Mr Transparent for veto,like the most recent extension for people to actually. Keep their plans.
    Lastly there are a number of bills in various stages by GOP members most noticed being Scalise’s plan.
    One last bomb for you Rutherford. The ACA will fail for a reason,and they are legion, but the most assured is ACCESS. The dirty word that really did not get the attention it deserved even though chunks of the reconciled law holds band aid nods to the issue. So Rutherford even if all the pixie dust and unicorn gas made ACA the greatest and the GOP shrinks to two guys in a back row of the House this thing will fail and Americans will die as will parts of our economy. Of course when this comes to pass you’ll say it was Romneys fault,war on women,racism etc etc

  • 508. James  |  November 30, 2013 at 5:56 pm

    As Alfie wrote, the Conservative origins of ObamaCare are a lie.

    Someone on the other blog is suffering what appears to be an ObamaCare policy change.. His wife may lose her doctor under a new policy, and they may lose a heap of money if they have to pay for her treatment. . It may be something different, but such things are written into the law and its regulations.

    He blames the insurance companies. Self delusion is an ugly thing, and the progressives are counting on ignorant people who fail to notice the truth to stay in power.. The truth is the Democrats, not the Republicans own this legislation and its web site.

    Obama also owns the four dead men of Bengazhi. Their deaths don’t affect many, so people don’t really care. ObamaCare directly affects us all, and people do care. In a just world, this would be the death knell of the Progressive movement.

  • 509. Alfie  |  November 30, 2013 at 6:22 pm

    this would be the death knell of the Progressive movement

    The Progressives are looking toward 2014 to get their collective chubbies on in NYC. That should be interesting.

  • 510. Alfie  |  November 30, 2013 at 7:07 pm

    I stumbled upon this site and thought it was a joke….it doesn’t seem to be. Check out some of these ads for ObamaCare
    http://www.doyougotinsurance.com/index.php?id=2

  • 511. dead rabbit  |  November 30, 2013 at 8:09 pm

    Lol…..Obamacare……the most partisan legislation of all time is now blamed on the one party in which NOT ONE FUCKING GUY VOTED FOR IT!

    Fascinating watching a man who had way too much personal machismo invested in a politician distort reality on a level that requires therapy. I warned him.

    Normally I would be cracking up but its kind of sad knowing how little said man has in the form hobbies, belonging, team and identity.

    At this point there has to be some other venue for the passion. No? It reminds me of the responses given by end of the world cult members where the predicted date of Armageddon is 70 degrees, sunny and slightly boring.

  • 512. Noah  |  November 30, 2013 at 9:46 pm

    Just another step on our path to a police state.

    http://reason.com/blog/2013/11/21/driver-arrested-in-ohio-for-secret-car-c

  • 513. poolman  |  November 30, 2013 at 10:02 pm

    re 509, the entire country is a joke anymore. The ads only reinforce it.

  • 514. Huck  |  November 30, 2013 at 10:09 pm

    “Rutherford you are perpetuating a lie and I am going to call you on it one more time.”

    What do you know, Alfie? It’s not like you live in the state that actually has the legislation of which you speak. Obama and his minions have spoken, that’s all that really matters.

  • 515. parker  |  December 1, 2013 at 8:20 am

    Patent troll sues X-plane, who, uncharacteristically for most, decides to fight:

    http://www.x-plane.com/x-world/lawsuit/

    Generally recognized the world over as the most advanced flight training software, X-Plane is being sued by Uniloc.

    Who is that, you say?

    Uniloc is what is called a NPE, or Non-Practicing Entity – basically a company which buys and holds patents but does not produce anything or use the patent in any way.

    What is the patent troll’s purpose in holding patents? Simple: It uses the extremely friendly American court system to assert its “patent rights,” suing or threatening to sue those who use a similar technology, making money through extortion, counting on the defendant’s fear of litigation costs to make them pay up without a court fight. Unfortunately, Austin Meyer, author of X-Plane, decided to risk everything he owns to fight back.

    So just what is this business model? Simple, really. The amount sued for, or threatened is carefully calculated: just enough to make it worth paying up rather than risking losing. In other words, extortion.

    Nice going, Yanks. The whole world is eating your lunch, and you sit about suing each other and crowing about how “fair” your system is.

    More on Patent Trolls to come, and how the American contingency fee system supports it.

  • 516. parker  |  December 1, 2013 at 8:56 am

    Ah, here it is: Benjamin Franklin – one of America’s Founding Fathers.

    “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.”

    The plaintiff-friendly American court system is the former.

    The Goodlatte-Leahy bill is a poofteenth of the latter.

    http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/302881-congress-takes-aim-at-patent-trolls

  • 517. James  |  December 1, 2013 at 10:34 am

    Newsbusters linked to an article describing the progressive movement’s thuggish behavior and threats as it attempted to stop the latest successful Colorado recall effort.Too many progressives have moved into the state, and if real Americans can unite they will and must defeat them.

    PJ Media has an article by Arnold S. Trebach. He is a Democrat who wrote “it is important that voters of all backgrounds must now openly declare their intention to vote a straight Republican ticket in the next two elections…Those Democratic rascals richly deserve their fate. Their actions while in power amount to a series of disasters for this county and its people–as well as for many people in other countries.”

    I used “real Americans” with some thought. It is a throwback to when Sarah Palin told a West Virginia audience she was glad to be in the real America. She was right then, and I am right now. Obama-like progressives are our Bolshevics.

  • 518. poolman  |  December 1, 2013 at 12:34 pm

    I would never vote a straight party ticket. Party politics is why we are in such deep dodo. It’s why nothing ever improves.

    Republicans pretty much destroyed their own platform, as evidenced in the last national election. They alienated most of their young and the small government folks. They drove a wedge between the more conservative libertarian end and the neocon fascist empire builders.

    McCain was asked in July who he would support in 2016, if, hypothetically between Rand Paul and Hillary Clinton, and he said it would be a ‘tough choice’.

    In 2010, Cheney endorsed Trey Grayson over Rand Paul in his run for Senate. Today Grayson is head of a democratic superpac.

    Democrats lost any credibility they may have formerly projected. They can’t find a solid platform to stand on after what their leaders have done to our nation these last 5 years.

    I still think SHC would be the better solution.

  • 519. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  December 1, 2013 at 1:25 pm

    R is still clinging to this redistrubutionist fantasy?

    Dude, you dream of government healthcare for all?

    IT’S DEAD, JIM. LET IT GO IN PEACE, BECAUSE IT’S STARTING TO STINK UP THE PLACE.

  • 520. muffy  |  December 1, 2013 at 1:54 pm

    You think that because you recognize now that you were fooled you are now somehow magically no longer a fool?

    What exactly were you fooled about anyway? That the oceans would actually recede? That Obamacare was going to be single payer? Stop it. The “I wanted single payer all along” crowd is so full of shit. Is that what you’re claiming now that you were “fooled” about? The bait and switch was that you thought you were voting for single payer? What were you fooled about and don’t hide behind dreamy “I thought he would be different” generalities.

    The Republican Party is tragically flawed but they didn’t vote with the rest of the bozos who are now claiming that there’s no difference between the parties. Take responsibility for your own foolishness and stop blaming others.

    Republicans need not ever cave to the concocted charges of racism and a war on women. Let social issues be decided by the states and let government work the way the Constitution says it’s supposed to. Dems are the party of Sandra Fluke and a people who don’t see a difference between the likes of her and themselves are doomed not to be free for very much longer. Liberty presumes virtue and such people don’t even recognize it or the absence of it any longer – much less have any themselves.

    Not a single Republican voted for a law that the reptilian Pelosi “deemed” passed. And now you want to pretend you don’t own it? Wah…Republicans are making it harder. Wah….it was their idea all along. Bull. Shit. For 50 years you’ve been mouthing words about climbing a mountain that turned out to be nothing but a landfill, and now you’re the kings of garbage. Congratulations. You won.

  • 521. James  |  December 1, 2013 at 4:12 pm

    Amen, Muffy.

    Poolman, Obama and the Democrats took me over a line with their blatant lies. Had they been Wall Street or main street business people, they would have been charged with fraud.I will not vote for another Democrat in the next election.

    Have you watched events in Ukraine? The president refused to sign Ukraine into the EU because he caved to Russian threats and blandishments to pull his country back into the Russian orbit.

    Many Ukrainians remember stories of the “Butcher of the Ukraine” who murdered through forced starvation and genocide more people than died in the Holocaust.

    Mass riots and police violence are the result. If I were Ukrainian, I’d be marching on Kiev too. Our government should remember we are not immune to such mass protests.. The Tea Party revolt was polite and friendly compared to what may follow.

  • 522. James  |  December 1, 2013 at 4:29 pm

    “For too long. Heading on a road to nowhere… got to read between the lines. Hasn’t it been obvious you and I can’t let this go?” Carina Dahl “IF That’s the Only Way”

  • 523. James  |  December 1, 2013 at 4:36 pm

    Riot police now have been driven from central Kiev. Over 300,000 people defied a protest ban, and some occupied the headquarters of the city council. Others stormed the president’s office.

  • 524. Huck  |  December 1, 2013 at 4:48 pm

    Self imposed deadlines are fast approaching…some are, indeed, upon us.

    Tick tock, motherfuckers….

  • 525. Alfie  |  December 1, 2013 at 6:55 pm

    Saw two op eds by Greg Sargent and Thomas Edsall and the two are beating the same drum on one of the primary cause ObamaCares woes. Racist middle class whites. I kid you not!

  • 526. James  |  December 1, 2013 at 7:38 pm

    The race card has worked on white guilt before. Why not now? Trouble is the card is worn out.

  • 527. poolman  |  December 1, 2013 at 8:00 pm

    Obama and the Democrats took me over a line with their blatant lies. Had they been Wall Street or main street business people, they would have been charged with fraud.

    It is rather preposterous that we allow them to blatantly lie and still command our nation. Where are the patriots? Where is the gallows, or at least the public stocks? In our younger days, gentlemen had to defend their actions and convictions, often with their life.

    I used to just vote straight R and not think much about politics, keeping busy with my work while pursuing that A dream. Then when the banksters orchestrated the collapse, while it took me by surprise, I then began to pay closer attention to them and the entire circus performance. Now I carefully look under each rock. There’s a lot of rocks, some of which I haven’t been able to move, and plenty on the planet I haven’t been to.

    Too much blame and hope is laid on politicians. It is commerce that has led us down this path, don’t be deceived. Can you name any bankers or wall street folks that have been proved now to have participated in unethical and criminal activities causing the economic collapse and have/are being punished accordingly? I don’t think any except for whistle blowers are serving any time. Fraud is rampant and well known, but punishment for it is not the result today. Too big to fail or jail.

    Aside from economic crimes, there have also been war crime convictions levied against our leaders in legitimate international courts. But nothing is done while our lying leaders hold power by force provided by you and me.

  • 528. poolman  |  December 1, 2013 at 8:20 pm

    James, that Carina Dahl song is what we once called pop music. She is cute and also talented. I had not heard of her before.

    Here’s one the lyric you wrote reminded me of from before she was even born. This was also one of the first ‘special effects’ videos that used techniques perfected on later award winning videos as that art form has developed.

  • 529. Rutherford  |  December 1, 2013 at 8:45 pm

    “Lastly there are a number of bills in various stages by GOP members most noticed being Scalise’s plan.”

    Will Boehner bring Scalise’s plan (or any other GOP alternative) up for a vote in the 4 DAYS that Congress is in session for the rest of the year?

    I didn’t think so.

  • 530. Alfie  |  December 1, 2013 at 9:17 pm

    petty rutherford petty. you know enough of how the system works,of how the democrats have played their game. you’re as guilty as they are and it isn’t something that makes you admirable by any means

  • 531. Huck  |  December 1, 2013 at 10:03 pm

    “Will Boehner bring Scalise’s plan (or any other GOP alternative) up for a vote in the 4 DAYS that Congress is in session for the rest of the year?”

    Would it matter to Harry Reid if Boehner did?

    I believe that’s checkmate.

    Not that any of it matters. Because today Democrats have (again) declared MISSION ACCOMPLISHED in Bush-like fashion.

    The website they swore would be completely fixed by today is now supposedly mostly fixed. And by mostly, I mean barely.

    In very typical fashion, Democrats have met their goals by simply moving the goalposts.

    One guy said today that ObamaCare might not fully work until 2017.

    I wonder if he knows the deadline for everyone to follow it is 30 days away?…..

  • 532. Rutherford  |  December 2, 2013 at 4:01 am

    “Would it matter to Harry Reid if Boehner did?

    I believe that’s checkmate.”

    Only checkmate in your imagination. If the Repubs have alternative legislation let’s see it. 47 votes to repeal Obamacare don’t count.

    Either we see the GOP alternative to Obamacare or everyone should just STFU.

  • 533. parker  |  December 2, 2013 at 7:25 am

    Rutherford: It’s worth a little time to scan your archives. What an Island of Misfit Toys! Had no idea…

    The oddest thing is that you, Rutherford, think that YOU are the misfit. No, mate, believe-you-me; your disabilities are only physical.

    Enjoy your holiday season, old man! Best wishes to you and your family, and hopes that your situation improves for the coming year.

  • 534. Noah  |  December 2, 2013 at 10:41 am

    We have got to get Liberals out of the school system. WFT is estimated answers or reasonable answers in math?

    http://www.momdot.com/common-core-is-making-me-stupider/

  • 535. El Tigre  |  December 2, 2013 at 11:48 am

    “Either we see the GOP alternative to Obamacare or everyone should just STFU.”

    Ha ha. Moments after this was blurted out as the “response” that dems should give to criticism of the wonderful Obama plan.

    Come on R, you can do better than just repeating MSNBC with it’s “avoid blame” game. The success of Obamacare is not at all related to a Republican alternative. This child’s logic.

    Frankly, the “fix” you are referring to is, “how can we redistribute wealth/cost of healthcare without consequence?” That IS THE PROBLEM, not the fix. Was repeal of Prohibition dependent on replacement legislation to ban consumption of alcohol? Failed policy is failed policy. Your unwillingness to admit that is an indictment not a defense.

    Now you’ve been asked over and over what the objectives are beyond the unadorned platitudes offered as the criteria for any alternative. All you’ve said is it ain’t allowing what you parrot (“junk policies”) nor universal coverage. You offer nothing to contain the cost of healthcare service delivery or figure out how requiring the employer mandate doesn’t result in even worse economic conditions than already exist.

    My fix is to scarp this bullshit — and for you to turn off the fucking teevee. Trying to blame republicans is not a fix to any of this disastrous shit that is crushing middle-income folks and leaving MILLIONS uninsured.

  • 536. James  |  December 2, 2013 at 12:08 pm

    Thanks for the link, Poolman. I like the Talking Heads but never saw that video. I like it.

    Carina Dahl is a Norweigian pop singer and fashion model carrying on the family business. Her father is a drummer in a heavy metal band and was a member and spokesman for the Norweigian Hells Angels until 2005.

    I used to vote at least half Democratic, but it changed with Obama’s first term.

    To be fair, I don’t think the health insurance inequalities were high on the Republicans’ list until after ObamaCare reared its head. Republicans should have done something when they controlled both Houses, but they didn’t.They did propose alternatives which the press rarely mentioned and which Democrats squelched

    The bill for our being hit by a train in August is now about $5,000. and growing, but so far, our insurance has covered it. I think muscles must have pulled away from my rib contusion, because the area still aches sometimes. My wife may have a broken sternan which she will ask about when she sees her doctor next time.,

  • 537. El Tigre  |  December 2, 2013 at 12:12 pm

    Yep, system broke:

    Texas judge sends Uniloc packing in Rackspace Patent Suit
    (defended by Red Hat)

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03/28/rackspace_patent_case_dismissed/

    Coming up with new anecdotal “proof” to avoid a challenge to your anecdotal proof is pretty pathetic. I sure am glad you’re not a lawyer despite your beli9ef that you are based on all of your so-called courtroom experience and stories relayed to you by all of your cadre of legal experts.

  • 538. James  |  December 2, 2013 at 12:18 pm

    As El Tigre wrote, Republican alternatives are figments of our imagination. They are a separate issue from the reality of ObamaCare which does exist. It exists because of lies, and it is an instrument for socialistic redistribution of assets.

  • 539. Huck  |  December 2, 2013 at 4:03 pm

    Rutherford, it doesn’t matter if Republicans did have an alternative because Harry Reid would never bring it up for a vote. Your entire argument is a bullshit red herring.

    Your argument is based on a fallacy. Our argument is based on reality.

    That’s why you’re checkmated.

  • 540. Huck  |  December 2, 2013 at 4:13 pm

    Rutherford, I notice you and yours don’t seem very interested in talking about a Democrat alternative to ObamaCare.

    Why is that?

    This shit obviously isn’t going to work as advertised. We already know that. So why this “full steam ahead” approach? Is it because you know that the only alternative you guys would ever consider is full-on single payer, government-run health care? Is it because admitting an alternative is needed is admitting defeat for Obama and your party? Or is it both?

    Why this constant “but Republicans….” bullshit?

  • 541. Huck  |  December 2, 2013 at 4:34 pm

    This is what Democrats regard as “mostly working.”

    “The problem is that the systems that are supposed to deliver consumer information to insurers still have not been fixed. And with coverage for many people scheduled to begin in just 30 days, insurers are worried the repairs may not be completed in time.

    “Until the enrollment process is working from end to end, many consumers will not be able to enroll in coverage,” said Karen M. Ignagni, president of America’s Health Insurance Plans, a trade group.”

    [...]

    “And unless enrollments are completed correctly, coverage may be in doubt.

    For insurers the process is maddeningly inconsistent. Some people clearly are being enrolled. But insurers say they are still getting duplicate files and, more worrisome, sometimes not receiving information on every enrollment taking place.

    “Health plans can’t process enrollments they don’t receive,” said Robert Zirkelbach, a spokesman for America’s Health Insurance Plans.”

    [...]

    “Insurers said they had received calls from consumers requesting insurance cards because they thought they had enrolled in a health plan through the federal website, but the insurers said they had not been notified.

    “Somehow people are getting lost in the process,” the insurance executive said. “If they go to a doctor or a hospital and we have no record of them, that will be very upsetting to consumers.”

    So it seems that the website “victory” declared yesterday is really just smoke and mirrors. The only effort that was made is to make the thing look like it’s working. Who cares whether or not people are actually covered…as long as they think they are?

    Isn’t that so typical of Obama and his Democratic party?

  • 542. dead rabbit  |  December 2, 2013 at 4:59 pm

    I think being invested in such a failure would cause anyone to sway from deflection, to the “OK lets ignore this monster and the fashion it was unleashed on us all and brainstorm other versions motif,” to utter despair. Rutherford rarely thinks for himself. His legacy here is one of being played for a fool by MSNBC. We’ve all seen it.

    It will take years for Rutherford to digest the most obvious failure of liberalism in American history. Nobody will ever fall for a liberal scheme on that magnitude ever again.

    Unless we go full blown socialist…
    . I’ve said it before. The left is going to quit pretending. They are going to have to go all in. Socialism or bust.

    Rutherford has a choice to make.

  • 543. Rutherford  |  December 2, 2013 at 6:50 pm

    “We have got to get Liberals out of the school system.”

    You know it’s really not appropriate to call names but Noah when you post this you’re an idiot.

    Why is everything fucking liberal/conservative to you? Why can’t you give it a rest?

    My daughter has brought home similar homework and the entire idea is to see if the amount you calculated makes any sense based on an easier calculation. It’s to give kids a gut feel for mathematics rather than just rote procedure. It’s designed as a confidence builder.

    The author is upset that they didn’t use rounding for the estimate. Guess what? Rounding takes more brain power than simply replacing the last two digits with zeros. Does it make the estimate look worse? Yes. But the whole idea is to get a quick and dirty estimate to check your work.

    The author should make SOME effort to understand the pedagogic reasons behind the assignment before she makes her stupid-ass comparisons to paying bills.

    Now I WILL say this. I do see assignments come home with typos. Typos on the assignment, not from my daughter. THAT is inexcusable and has nothing to do with politics.

    P.S. When I read your initial comment Noah I shared your outrage because I thought the school was accepting estimates as “good enough” answers. Then I read the article and realized that you obviously didn’t.

  • 544. Rutherford  |  December 2, 2013 at 7:00 pm

    Tigre, once again you’re wrong. We did away with prohibition BUT we have laws restricting drinking age and we have severe penalties for drunk driving. We didn’t just throw up our hands and say fuck it.

    Other than just say “fuck it, we love the status quo” what are Repubs saying that has any traction?

    This is about defeating Obamacare, not about fixing the problem. Obama would look truly petty and dictatorial if Repubs offered a good faith alternative solution and Obama refused to play ball.

    That is not what’s happening.

  • 545. Rutherford  |  December 2, 2013 at 7:08 pm

    “Rutherford, I notice you and yours don’t seem very interested in talking about a Democrat alternative to ObamaCare.”

    Once again you haven’t been paying attention. The Dem alternative was already defeated twice. First, single payer and then again with the public option. Obama threw his own overboard with this clusterfuck. But unlike the present crop of Repubs the Dems decided not to make “good or fair” the enemy of perfect.

  • 546. Rutherford  |  December 2, 2013 at 7:12 pm

    “The only effort that was made is to make the thing look like it’s working. Who cares whether or not people are actually covered…as long as they think they are?”

    WOW are my friends stuck on stupid today. So let me get this straight. Obama is deliberately tricking people into thinking they enrolled when they didn’t.

    Do you even read what you write anymore?

  • 547. Rutherford  |  December 2, 2013 at 7:17 pm

    “Rutherford rarely thinks for himself.”

    LOL the idiot Rutherford who hosts a site frequented by geniuses.

    Here’s the deal Rabbit. You’re almost onto something. If capitalism and politics continue to conspire to screw the little and not so little (middle class) guy there WILL be a revolt and socialism will take a foothold.

    Bernie Sanders 2016 !

  • 548. muffy  |  December 2, 2013 at 7:38 pm

    The recent presser whereby Obama instructed insurance companies to disobey the law as written and reinstate the insurance plans that were cancelled in accordance with the law is so far into dictator territory it shouldn’t have been allowed. Is that even legal – or just in the Nixon sense of the word? Are we all just in a perpetual state of shock with this guy and his crew?

    The Democrats are fucking lawless. Are there no more moderates within the party to speak the truth about what this administration is doing?

  • 549. El Tigre  |  December 2, 2013 at 8:27 pm

    “Tigre, once again you’re wrong. We did away with prohibition BUT we have laws restricting drinking age and we have severe penalties for drunk driving. We didn’t just throw up our hands and say fuck it.”

    Mr. Reading Comprehension strikes again. :roll:

    (incidentally, those are state laws — not required for the repeal of prohibition — a federal constitutional amendment to enact and abolish).

    Keep defending your train wreck by generously trying to “share blame” with the republicans. Nothing could be weaker.

    “Well, our model might not be working so well but you capitalists offer no alternative so STFU.” -Stalin

  • 550. Huck  |  December 2, 2013 at 10:13 pm

    “So let me get this straight. Obama is deliberately tricking people into thinking they enrolled when they didn’t.

    Do you even read what you write anymore?”

    The question is..do you even read what I write anymore.

    It’s obvious that you don’t. I very clearly included portions of an article that states people are using the website that we were told is now “mostly” functional…they are thinking that they are getting health insurance coverage…and they are not.

    Your the big fucking software engineer around here. Tell us Mr. IBM..how much sense does it make to scramble to fix the front end of a project…tell everyone it is fixed…while the backend is still NOT FUNCTIONING?

    Is that the action of someone who wants the thing to work right? Or is it the action of someone who wants the user to THINK the thing is working right?

    It’s not hard to figure out, Rutherford. You just have to be willing to shed your allegiance to your party and see the truth. Until then, you can toss out all the smartass comments you want. It won’t change the reality that is going to smack you upside the head hard come next year.

  • 551. poolman  |  December 3, 2013 at 12:10 am

    And then there’s this little bugaboo…

  • 552. Rutherford  |  December 3, 2013 at 5:39 am

    Alfie I haven’t read all of it yet but thought you’d be interested in this:

    http://nyti.ms/18h2gVy

  • 553. an800lbgorilla  |  December 3, 2013 at 7:07 am

    Tigre, Huck, et al–

    It’s OK that Obama lies. No, really. The HUGE BRAINS on the left have told us so…

    L.Z. GRANDERSON: Well, what I’m saying is, is that she is pretending as if once an error has happened, it’s forever going to trail a president. And that just isn’t true. And she is living proof of that with scrubbing clean President Reagan’s reputation.

    Now with President Obama, it is true. He should have been more forthright with how the Affordable Care Act was going to impact the country. But with that being said, all Americans know politicians lie. The question is, which lies can you live with? And, time and time again, Americans have said we can deal with the lies that President Obama tells us because we believe in his heart, he has the best interest for the American people. Every president is going to lie to you. Every politician is going to lie to you. The question is, which lies can you live with?

    R, care to wager that if the current President was A) White and B) a Republican, that this assclown would be telling a slightly different story? You and your peeps are falling apart at the seems right now…

  • 554. parker  |  December 3, 2013 at 10:30 am

    Rutherford – “If capitalism and politics continue to conspire to screw the little and not so little (middle class) guy there WILL be a revolt and socialism will take a foothold. ”

    Right on the money, chum. And the Far Right doesn’t see that, even though they have the capitalism part right, by largely ignoring the human factors in any governance and de facto supporting the robber barons’ screwing of the “little” and “middle” guy, they are writing their own obituaries. People will only lie down so long and then there will be revolt.

    And the problem with revolt is you don’t know how it’s going to turn out.

  • 555. poolman  |  December 3, 2013 at 10:36 am

    Profits are on the rise…

  • 556. El Tigre  |  December 3, 2013 at 12:14 pm

    Oh for fuck’s sake, it’s the liberal socialist policies that are “screwing the (not so) little middle class guys.”

  • 557. parker  |  December 3, 2013 at 1:17 pm

    I think it is actually more correct to say that the robber barons at the very top only screw the middle class and lower, while the liberal socialist policies screw everyone.

    The problem in US is that the robber barons and their cronies in the political system blame everything on the lower class “welfare queens” et al, and the lower class blames Wall Street, and there is some truth in both points of view.

    If the US system were changed so that perverse incentives were eliminated, such as payment for bastardy, assistance’s being reduced equal to amounts earned through honest work (effectively a near-100% tax rate), that would actually strengthen the lower class, IMHO. Right now, you are PAYING people to do the wrong things, and that should stop.

    But, at the same time, the moral hazard implicit in huge bailouts of financial companies “too big to fail” should be eliminated, as well. If you make foolish bets with your money and you lose it, it’s gone; the taxpayer is not going to pick up the tab. By the same token, if you make foolish bets with other people’s money and you lose it, you go to jail. It’s not that hard.

  • 558. El Tigre  |  December 3, 2013 at 2:49 pm

    The middle-class suffers more because the redistribution of their income by the liberal socialists tangibly affects their lifestyles and ability to rise/provide.

    It is like scissors when the upper-class and wealth creators/large employers cut back on the troughs that feed the middle class.

    The perceptions of the lower class are not undeserved. Though they certainly exist to some degree, I have yet to meet or see the hypothetical welfare recipients liberals like R envision. They are certainly not the norm by a mile.

    We have generations that have no willingness to shed a life of dependency and it is very conspicuous to anyone that lives in a urban area. I believe the guy that’s just “down on his luck” is the extreme minority of the dependent class that creates the “welfare queens.”

    However, it is the cheapest intellectual dodge to accuse the right of not caring about the guy “down on his luck” (or truly in worthy of assistance for the right reasons) based conspicuous and obvious images that provide ample criticism of the present system.

  • 559. El Tigre  |  December 3, 2013 at 2:53 pm

    Complete last paragraph:

    The right unquestionably cares about the extremely poor and oppressed but doesn’t view the handouts that create dependency as a solution. One need only look at the charitable giving of the right compared to the left — even of equal means.

  • 560. dead rabbit  |  December 3, 2013 at 7:12 pm

    So I’m one of those weirdos who buys shit off Craig’s list. I’ve had some awesome luck. An indestructible lawn mower. A bad ass k5 Blazer that I’ve already put a ton of miles on. I’m such a sick fuck I even bought used boots.
    This shit saves me a ton of money. I’ve never really bought anything new except for my Weber grill.

    I always get good deals from the lower class people. The self reliant version. We haggle hard, swear and then shake hands

    Fucking rich people. They always rip me off. I always make this assumption they aren’t in it to sucker me. I just bought this camper trailer off these rich people and realized I paid 300 bucks more then they did 3 years ago! LOL. I guess that’s why they are the rich people and I’m not!

    Oh…and women. I can’t barter with them. With a man I’m super aggressive when I get my haggle on. I can’t do it to those crafty bitches!

    There needs to be more women as CEOs.

  • 561. Alfie  |  December 3, 2013 at 9:51 pm

    I don’t believe the middle to lower classes are getting it tucked to them by the rich. I do believe the government at every level is making it really hard and in other ways undesirable to be middle class or working poor.
    I do believe Americans are in for a wide range of wake up calls but I don’t think the majority will get it as these things roll out.
    As for :

    And the problem with revolt is you don’t know how it’s going to turn out.

    I’ll tell you how in the USA it turns out. Revolt gets called and nobody shows up. Americans do not use social media as effectively as our global peers do. Our media consumption is controlled or contrived and intellectually lazy and dishonest for the most part. Our will is non existent. Our focus unsustainable. Our outrage so short termed it is laughable our ancestors were folks who wrote and lived the Declaration of Independence.

  • 562. Alfie  |  December 3, 2013 at 9:54 pm

    @ Parker regards your “too big to fail” comment. It is coming to bear that the next “too big to fail” class will be municipalities. I don’t think we have enough folks who remember or care about NYC in the early 70′s,Boston post “Tregor Bill” to see past Detroit and Stockton of today. People may call for socialism in America but it will be about their homes and neighborhood first not political outrage over economics.

  • 563. parker  |  December 3, 2013 at 11:25 pm

    Alfie – I don’t think the “rich” are directly sticking it to the underclass, and THEY don’t think they are either. But they are IMHO definitely sticking it to them INdirectly, via the govt.

    What is happening is that they view themselves as smart – and they are – and that the bailouts on the back of the taxpayer are their just deserts. “We’re not like ordinary folk.” “We risked a lot in order to make money for these guys, and it didn’t work out – so the govt should bail us out.” “We DESERVE 15 Million dollar bonuses, because we handle so much money and our work is so important.” — That kind of thinking.

    The old school way of thinking was that, “I have been given responsibility for people’s money – schoolteachers, pensioners, railroad workers, and it is my DUTY to be conservative and careful with it. If I should lose it, it is ON ME.” I know of a friend of my family who was a bond broker in the States in the 1950′s. His underling – not he – lost quite a bit of money without his knowledge, but he immediately took the blame, stepped up and resigned. He was making BIG bucks, but it took him years to get back into the game and he always was felt to have a black mark against him.

    Now? Pfffffft…nobody would give that kind of thing a second glance. There is no shame, no remorse, no accountability. No ethics – or at least very little. Think of the old people’s money these young bucks lost in speculating! These brokers are not going to be eating cat food in their old age, but because of them, others will be.

    Makes me nauseous to even think about it.

  • 564. parker  |  December 3, 2013 at 11:42 pm

    re: haggling with women. LOL

    IMHO there is a whole lot to the notion of the personalities of Man = dog and Woman = cat.

    Little girls take in deceit with their mothers’ milk. Know that and stencil it on your forehead, and your boys’. First thing one needs to tell his sons is that this business of “sugar and spice and everything nice” is an outright lie – a woman is every bit as vicious as a man, but being smaller than a man has taught them guile and craft over the centuries. And given them an un-erasable memory for grudges.

    Any young man who goes head to head with a female needs to understand that he is at a SEVERE disadvantage. Just assume you are going to take it in the knickers. What did one of your posters in the archives call it? (I think it was this blog…) “Power of the puss?”

  • 565. Noah  |  December 4, 2013 at 12:41 am

    Clever jingle.

  • 566. parker  |  December 4, 2013 at 6:45 am

    Rutherford – what is your take on this new pope, and most particularly, HIS take on “unfettered capitalism?”

  • 567. an800lbgorilla  |  December 4, 2013 at 7:00 am

    Hahaha, DR, I buy shit off Craig’s list all the time. Ebay too sometimes, though I do stay away from the footware section….

  • 568. poolman  |  December 4, 2013 at 11:00 am

    I bought a pickup off Craig’s list. I love it. I sell more stuff on it then I have ever bought, though. When I lost my house and we downsized, I turned a lot of merchandise into cash. I get a lot of used pool parts that usually turn pretty quick. When we re-landscaped the front yard, I got rid of all the lava rock, listed it for free. Folks were showing up in droves with pickups and shovels.

  • 569. poolman  |  December 4, 2013 at 11:15 am

    Outlaw nation.

  • 570. muffy  |  December 4, 2013 at 3:03 pm

    “Little girls take in deceit with their mothers’ milk. Know that and stencil it on your forehead, and your boys’. First thing one needs to tell his sons is that this business of “sugar and spice and everything nice” is an outright lie – a woman is every bit as vicious as a man, but being smaller than a man has taught them guile and craft over the centuries. And given them an un-erasable memory for grudges.”

    Two words for you Auntie Parker – more fiber.

  • 571. muffy  |  December 4, 2013 at 3:19 pm

    “One of the ways we can judge a person’s solution to poverty is to observe their attitude toward the poor.”

    Meaningless. No one has a “solution to poverty” – only temporary relief. Obama’s entire presidency is based on temporary relief. He knows his people well.

    A charitable heart isn’t observable to the degree that you’re then equipped to judge anyone. What you’re observing is theatrics and cheap rhetoric.

  • 572. Rutherford  |  December 4, 2013 at 7:00 pm

    “Are there no more moderates within the party to speak the truth about what this administration is doing?”

    OMFG!

    Someone who skews conservative has the nerve to call for moderate Democrats! I almost spat out my Hot Pocket.

    BTW, OMFG=Oh Muffy For Goodness sake!

  • 573. Rutherford  |  December 4, 2013 at 7:05 pm

    “those are state laws ”

    Tigre I saw that coming a mile away. The Fed typically steps in when the states are unable or unwilling to do what is right.

    Let me guess. Back in the 1850′s you would have been pro-slavery on the grounds of states rights?

  • 574. Rutherford  |  December 4, 2013 at 7:13 pm

    “Is that the action of someone who wants the thing to work right? Or is it the action of someone who wants the user to THINK the thing is working right?”

    No that’s the action of someone who doesn’t understand software implementations which the Obama admin clearly doesn’t.

    Incidentally my wife entered all our data into the ACA web site today, hit ENTER and got a screen saying try again in 30 minutes. Fortunately all the data was not lost so she won’t have to re-type.

    There was some dude on Morning Joe the other day who has already built a web site that basically does what healthcare.gov is supposed to do. Why the fuck did Obama, Sebelius etal reinvent the wheel and not go to that guy?

  • 575. Rutherford  |  December 4, 2013 at 7:23 pm

    “R, care to wager that if the current President was A) White and B) a Republican…”

    Well G I do think you’re more obsessed with the racial angle than even I am. But I won’t argue with you on the politics angle. But for the free pass Bush got on Iraq in the early days, he got greater media scrutiny than Obama.

    I can prove you wrong racially and right politically. Remember that white POTUS who looked the American people in the eye and said “I did not have sexual relations with that woman.” Still considered one of the most savvy political leaders of our time by the media. It’s not race. It’s a media political bias.

  • 576. Rutherford  |  December 4, 2013 at 7:25 pm

    “And the problem with revolt is you don’t know how it’s going to turn out.”

    As the Arab Spring taught us in no uncertain terms.

  • 577. Rutherford  |  December 4, 2013 at 7:36 pm

    “Oh for fuck’s sake, it’s the liberal socialist policies that are “screwing the (not so) little middle class guys.””

    Keep talking corporate shill.

  • 578. Rutherford  |  December 4, 2013 at 7:48 pm

    “I believe the guy that’s just “down on his luck” is the extreme minority of the dependent class that creates the “welfare queens””

    Again I ask how can you be a queen living in Compton? This is fucking ludicrous.

    Does welfare work, no. “Workfare” is better. But why? Not because it prevents the poor from spending their money irresponsibly as defined by social arbiter Tigre. It’s better because it creates a path out of poverty.

    I fully agree we should work to eliminate poverty, not subsidize it. That does not mean I agree with vilifying the poor, as is the fashion with current conservatives.

  • 579. Rutherford  |  December 4, 2013 at 7:54 pm

    “Our will is non existent. Our focus unsustainable. Our outrage so short termed it is laughable ”

    Oh God I fear you’re right Alfie but I keep hoping you’re wrong.

  • 580. Rutherford  |  December 4, 2013 at 8:00 pm

    Every time I hear the reverse sexist meme that if women ran things it would all be so much better my blood starts to boil.

    There is nothing comparable to a pissed off woman.

  • 581. Rutherford  |  December 4, 2013 at 8:04 pm

    “Rutherford – what is your take on this new pope, and most particularly, HIS take on “unfettered capitalism?””

    The new Pope has me on the verge of conversion. I fucking love this guy. But Parker, you know what I love even more? I love watching all the religious hypocrites saying “now wait a minute, we don’t want to be THAT much like Jesus!”
    :lol:

  • 582. Rutherford  |  December 4, 2013 at 8:09 pm

    Muffy would you honestly trust an anti-poverty campaign to someone who felt the poor are shiftless and lazy?

  • 583. Rutherford  |  December 4, 2013 at 8:20 pm

    This is my only fear regarding socialism. I believe uncorrupted socialism means economic mediocrity for all. Uncorrupted capitalism means economic mobility for all willing and able to work.

    What we need is a new revolution to save capitalism. Money out of politics. Profits that are not at the expense of basic human sustenance.

    Remember Bush’s compassionate conservatism? I’m calling for compassionate capitalism.

    P.S. I truly believe were it not for 9/11 we would have seen a very different Bush presidency. He might have had the chance to save the GOP from the current crop of nutjobs.

  • 584. muffy  |  December 4, 2013 at 8:59 pm

    “OMFG!”

    An acronym offered in lieu of an answer.

    There are no moderate Democrats.

  • 585. muffy  |  December 4, 2013 at 9:20 pm

    “Muffy would you honestly trust an anti-poverty campaign to someone who felt the poor are shiftless and lazy?”

    Much more than I would trust an “anti-poverty campaign” to someone who felt that the rich were selfish and greedy.

    No one is pro-poverty Rutherford. You and Obama – you both think that rhetoric can alter reality.

    Obama knows he’s powerless (as government inherently is) to lift up the poor man so he pretends it’s all the same if he pushes down and effectively wipes out the middle class. He’ll take as much from the rich as he can get away with but it has nothing to do with eradicating poverty. It’s thievery (insofar as it is unlawful to confiscate wealth) and benevolent dictatorship. If it were about eradicating poverty he would care that people are falling through the cracks in droves.

  • 586. parker  |  December 4, 2013 at 9:25 pm

    Rutherford – regards Pope Francis. “I fucking love this guy” doesn’t do it justice. Hell, I never been to church in my life since my parents quit dragging me as a kiddiwink, and my wife and I are on the verge of converting, too! He’s the real deal, not an empty robe.

    Yeah, it’s pretty funny watching the right wing nut cases getting all daggy about the pope. He’s calling them on their bullshit, same as he’s doing the left. Maybe the nuts will neuter each other. I mean neutralize.

    No, upon reflection, I mean neuter.

  • 587. muffy  |  December 4, 2013 at 9:30 pm

    “The new Pope has me on the verge of conversion. I fucking love this guy.”

    Because partisanship no longer fills your sense of righteousness and you suddenly feel the desire to belong to God? Or because he pisses off intolerant people of whom you are intolerant?

    I wouldn’t put much stock in you remaining loyal to the pope. It’s fleeting. He’s popular among progressives because they think they can win over the Catholic vote.

  • 588. Rutherford  |  December 4, 2013 at 9:34 pm

    “There are no moderate Democrats.”

    Hate to break this to you but there is a very well known visible moderate Democrat right there in your face all the time. His name is Barack Obama. ;-)

  • 589. Rutherford  |  December 4, 2013 at 9:40 pm

    Muffy I’m a wanna-be political blogger not a politician. So I don’t care who wins votes for whom.

    Francis BEHAVES the way I envision a Pope should behave. He speaks the way I think a true Christian should speak. Unlike Jerry Falwell, I doubt he blamed 9/11 on homosexuals.

  • 590. parker  |  December 4, 2013 at 9:42 pm

    God, Rutherford, you surely have an intellectual desert around here sometimes.

    The pope is popular because he is humble and kind, and because he shows a basic respect for humanity, regardless of their station in life.

    And what makes him particularly appealing is that he simultaneously has little use for phonies – whether they be on the right OR the left. (But enough about Limbaugh – who isn’t fit to carry a light for the pope to take a piss by.)

    Francis is a fine man, by anyone-with-a-brain’s assessment.

  • 591. muffy  |  December 4, 2013 at 9:43 pm

    @#585 – Never happen, Auntie P. You lack the required humility and gratitude. You’re also wholly lacking in proper discernment – his remarks are lost on you. Completely.

    As are, I suspect, his prayer intentions for this month –

    “That children who are victims of abandonment and violence may find the love and protection they need. That Christians enlightened by the Word Incarnate (Jesus) may prepare humanity for the Saviors coming. “ –Papal Intentions for December 2013

  • 592. muffy  |  December 4, 2013 at 9:51 pm

    “Hate to break this to you but there is a very well known visible moderate Democrat right there in your face all the time. His name is Barack Obama.”

    What are BO’s moderate positions? Or yours for that matter?

  • 593. poolman  |  December 4, 2013 at 10:23 pm

    The pope is no Jesus, Rutherford, but you do at least get that he is supposed to be that holy representation here on earth. Really though, he represents the Vatican or the Catholic church, which may be powerful, but isn’t the holiest of institutions.

    Jesus said the poor will always be with us. That doesn’t mean we are supposed to equalize the wealth as most progressives and socialists propose. It means we ought to show compassion, sharing from the abundance of any of our resources. As a believer, we should acknowledge that none of it is ours to begin with. It’s a matter of stewardship. Stewardship requires we account for everything that we have at hand It’s a responsible position. Pretty much bred out of our culture along with morals in this all about me world. But that’s the gist.

    There is a difference in a giving spirit and desire to bless others than in the obligation of giving away stuff you deem as yours. You didn’t come into the world with it and you damn sure won’t need it when you leave. The ‘he who has the most toys wins’ crowd keeps the toy makers busy, though most aren’t local businesses.

    The economy appears stabilized for now, but only by kicking the can down the road. The fed’s money magic. Hopeful it can float until 2016 is the democrat game plan. The republicans would rather it crash now with Obama at the helm.

  • 594. El Tigre  |  December 4, 2013 at 10:26 pm

    “Let me guess. Back in the 1850′s you would have been pro-slavery on the grounds of states rights?”

    Huh?

    How the fuck does this relate to the analogy or what I said?

    Oh, I see. I guess I should say, “so back in the 1930s you’d have been in favor of prohibition?”

    Duh.

    The comment didn’t have to do with states rights. It had to do with you non-existent quid pro quo “fix” to shitty federal legislation.

    Come on. You’re an educated man. This isn’t hard.

  • 595. muffy  |  December 4, 2013 at 10:32 pm

    The pope is misunderstood by both the left and the right – largely because both are attempting to co-opt parts of him for their own purposes – whether it’s votes or just what some see as humiliating their political foes.

    You can’t be anti-God and be pro-papal messaging any more than the “religious hypocrites” can be offended at the pope reminding Catholics all over the world about the imprudentce of unfettered consumerism.”

  • 596. El Tigre  |  December 4, 2013 at 10:40 pm

    “Does welfare work, no. “Workfare” is better. But why? Not because it prevents the poor from spending their money irresponsibly as defined by social arbiter Tigre. It’s better because it creates a path out of poverty.”

    Great.

    This addresses my point. . . how?

  • 597. El Tigre  |  December 4, 2013 at 10:42 pm

    Muffy, you’re on fire tonight.

  • 598. muffy  |  December 4, 2013 at 11:11 pm

    “Great.”
    :lol:

    Nobody here but us cacti.

  • 599. Alfie  |  December 4, 2013 at 11:12 pm

    The popes a poser. frankie got a lot of folks excited over about 6 pages from his 80+ page report. The same people cheering seemingly missed his reassertions on woman priests and gay marriage.
    His humility may be the real deal but until the Vatican has their dirty and bloodied riches on Craigs List or Ebay I’m thinking he is an all talk no walk risking assassination kind of thing.

  • 600. muffy  |  December 4, 2013 at 11:13 pm

    Rutherford, catechism starts tonight.

    http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/francesco/apost_exhortations/documents/papa-francesco_esortazione-ap_20131124_evangelii-gaudium_en.pdf

    This will be on the test.

  • 601. muffy  |  December 4, 2013 at 11:17 pm

    Alfie = right wing nut case! I knew it! He hates the pope! Bet he puts the dog on top of the car too…

  • 602. Huck  |  December 5, 2013 at 4:57 am

    “Our outrage so short termed it is laughable”

    Which is how people like Barack Obama get re-elected

  • 603. Rutherford  |  December 5, 2013 at 7:41 am

    “What are BO’s moderate positions? Or yours for that matter?”

    This one is easy Muffy. A leftist would never have bailed out the auto industry. He would have completely taken it over as a state run entity.

    A leftist would NEVER have signed off on a health insurance program that gave a big wet kiss to the insurance industry.

    Again, ACA should be a darling of conservatives. This from the book Double Down:

    Jim DeMint, the farthest-right member of the Senate, singled out the achievement when he endorsed Romney for president. “He has demonstrated, when he stepped into government in a very difficult state, that he could work in a difficult partisan environment, take some good conservative ideas, like private health insurance, and apply them to the need to have everyone insured,” DeMint said.

  • 604. Rutherford  |  December 5, 2013 at 7:42 am

    Sadly Muffy you and so many others here have a bad case of Obama Derangement Syndrome.

  • 605. parker  |  December 5, 2013 at 8:44 am

    Alfie’s position on the Catholic church is well-appreciated. However, the pope – this pope, anyway – is not the same thing as the church, and in fact, seems to horrify many of the Catholic higher-ups. He can still be a good man and be the head of a bad organization. Remember, he just started. What better way to change the church than from the inside?

    One can appreciate a man without lauding his church, parts of his philosophy without agreeing with it all. This concept that everybody has to pass an arbitrary litmus test – and that test is that he has to agree with everything you say – is silly and naive. It is the mark of the right-wing extremists and the left, as well, as each party hardens its position. And it’s why Americans are moving away from both parties in droves. The parties are writing their own obituaries.

    The world is not black and white. People are complicated – at least the smart ones are. Thank god.

  • 606. James  |  December 5, 2013 at 9:33 am

    It is not Obama derangement syndrome.The man and his organization lied to us about Benghazi and the Affordable Health Care law. He is also implementing through executive order measures to fight human,caused global warming when even authors of an article in Climate Dynamics conceded that the average global surface temperatures stopped rising fifteen years ago. Obama is lying again.

    The Iranians accused Obama and Kerry of lying after nuclear negotiations, and I am inclined to believe the Iranians as I did the president of Libya after Benghazi. Obama also let Putin take the major role in dealing with Syria, Putin may also have been on the right side.

    It is not Obama Derangment syndrome. it is observation and good sense.

  • 607. El Tigre  |  December 5, 2013 at 9:37 am

    “This one is easy Muffy. A leftist would never have bailed out the auto industry. He would have completely taken it over as a state run entity.”

    You’re a funny man R.

    He has no such authority. He went as far left as he Constitutionally did — (and beyond really).

    The only thing that limited the scope of his healthcare takeover was Congress.

  • 608. El Tigre  |  December 5, 2013 at 9:38 am

    “Constitutionally could.”

  • 609. James  |  December 5, 2013 at 9:40 am

    Our grand daughter is progressing better than feared last June. One thing she has not done is get on her stomach and start to crawl, though she can support herself by standing and holding on to a coffee table.

    We encourage her to roll onto her stomach, but she doesn’t like it and appears not to be able to turn over well. Our daughter put her on her stomach, and our grand daughter decided she didn’t to be there. She rolled back. Our daughter put her back on her stomach, and our grand daughter flipped back, ,Soon, it became a contest with our grand daughter flipping back as fast as a fish. Then, she laughed. Her muscle coordination is fine.

  • 610. El Tigre  |  December 5, 2013 at 9:40 am

    “Sadly Muffy you and so many others here have a bad case of Obama Derangement Syndrome.”

    Says the Obama worshipper.

  • 611. poolman  |  December 5, 2013 at 11:53 am

    Obama Derangement Syndrome? :lol: Riiight. :roll: The man’s record speaks for itself. I have never been more disappointed with any one person before. To take all that good will and then tell us to basically shove it really gets my goat. I no longer have any respect for the man, nor his profession. Maybe that is the best result of this administration, showing the world the real and jaded side of politics and government. Ours is definitely not functioning as initiated or intended.

  • 612. poolman  |  December 5, 2013 at 12:00 pm

    More proof the world doesn’t function as we’re sold told.

  • 613. muffy  |  December 5, 2013 at 12:37 pm

    R @ #602 – a howling lack of success in enumerating the moderate bones in King Obama’s body. Perhaps even in your own body. I’m beginning to wonder.

    And Auntie P @ #604 is so weak as to leave me wondering if someone we know didn’t cheat on their SATs. I kid. But you are proving yourself to be noticeably analogous to your nemesis Palin.

    Time after time your hypocrisy trips you up and linguistics sleights-of-hand and ad hoc put-downs are of no help to you. This particular “well, nobody’s perfect” fallback of yours is getting a bit tedious. The idea that you two stooges would feign an open heart to the Catholic Church as you flout the very rock upon which the Church professes to be built is positively farcical.

    Now if you had said you were considering converting to a religion because they do NOT put Christ at the center of everything – which actually does seem to be your true take on the Catholic Church and most Christians in general – that would at least make a tiny scrap of sense. Not much but for you two it would be a logic bonanza.

    We’re talking about you two wingnuts converting to the Catholic Church because you tingle at the idea that a small number of your political enemies are made uncomfortable by a misunderstanding of the pope’s remarks – which you yourself misunderstand. Anyone who actually read the pope’s own words can see immediately that you two bozos are reacting to what you’ve heard about the pope’s remarks and not to the remarks themselves. Telltale absence of independent thinking and fact-based stimuli so typical of wingnuttery.

    PS…you, Auntie P, are also a flagrant respecters of persons and not at all a man of conviction – as you have proven here again by resorting to pretending to agree with imaginary declared distinctions between the man and the Church he leads.

  • 614. muffy  |  December 5, 2013 at 1:22 pm

    Helluvan article on the subject at your place Alfie if you don’t mind my saying so.

  • 615. muffy  |  December 5, 2013 at 4:31 pm

    Whoa hey now. I didn’t mean to imply that anyone actually cheated on their SATs….just a rhetorical flourish – you know like I’m considering converting to Catholicism because the pope gets under Limbaugh’s skin.

    Besides I know that as bad as he is at argument that doesn’t automatically equate to Auntie P being a total dum dum. People, as we know, are complicated….at least the smart ones are.

    I’ve got to learn to be more passive aggressive.

    Mea culpa. Salami. Chorizo.

  • 616. dead rabbit  |  December 5, 2013 at 6:05 pm

    Yeah guys. . Um um um…..Obama is not leftist because he only marginally pissed on rule of law when he picked who would be the winners and losers in Detroit. You sillies. If Obama was a leftist he would have taken all of GM management kulaks and relocated them to a death camp in Siberia. Get some perspective.

  • 617. Rutherford  |  December 5, 2013 at 6:07 pm

    Well Tigre at least you’ve conceded that Obama the dictator has stayed, more or less, within the bounds of the Constitution. :-)

  • 618. James  |  December 5, 2013 at 6:14 pm

    582 Yes, Rutherford, without 911 we might have seen another Bush and Obama would not have become president.

    Meanwhile, the Ukrainians who face a major economic crisis resent being blackmailed into being drawn further into the Russian orbit. Protesters have seized a number of government and government related buildings and some demand the resignation of the president. The US and Europe say they see nothing constitutional which can depose the president.

    His arch enemy who is in jail said: “What European leaders understand now, is they are dealing with a person who cheats them and who lies. There can be no negotiation with a person who cheats and lies.”

    That sounds familiar.

  • 619. Rutherford  |  December 5, 2013 at 6:14 pm

    “Says the Obama worshipper.”

    This has got to be the smartest group of people I’ve ever known so capable of saying stupid things.

    I see Obama much clearer than I ever did before and much much clearer than you see him. I see a well intentioned man who by virtue of ambition and very good luck finds himself in over his head. He is not some crazed despotic leftist out to “change America fundamentally”. The more you and yours insist that he is, the more you sound like a loon.

  • 620. Rutherford  |  December 5, 2013 at 6:18 pm

    If it took Obama to disillusion you about the Presidency Poolman then you obviously slept through Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton and Bush 43. We haven’t really had a standup POTUS since I’ve been alive. Last one was Eisenhower.

  • 621. Rutherford  |  December 5, 2013 at 6:44 pm

    R @ #602 – a howling lack of success in enumerating the moderate bones in King Obama’s body. Perhaps even in your own body. I’m beginning to wonder.

    Nice rejection of my response but not much meat on the bones there Muffy.

    Why don’t you articulate how much a leftist Obama is and please use the Daily Kos standard of leftism. Remember far left, left, moderate, right and far right can only be defined relatively. I would really like to see you prove how, relatively, Obama is far left.

  • 622. Rutherford  |  December 5, 2013 at 6:54 pm

    you know like I’m considering converting to Catholicism because the pope gets under Limbaugh’s skin.

    Well damn right my “conversion to Catholicism” was nothing more than a rhetorical flourish. It was a use of hyperbole to indicate my approval of the new Pope.

    Now you may well be right. The media may be cherry-picking his words and bamboozling me in the process. But IF it is true that he has warned against the Church’s obsession with contraception and abortion and IF it is true that he has warned against capitalism run amok, then I like the guy.

    It may well be what Archbishop Dolan has said … that basically the Pope is just doing a very good job of selling Catholicism by changing the tone while the doctrines remain in place as strong as ever. So be it.

    IMHO the only redeeming feature of religion is when it gets people to listen to their better angels and treat each other better. Seems to me Pope Francis is attempting to do that.

  • 623. Rutherford  |  December 5, 2013 at 7:11 pm

    He is also implementing through executive order measures to fight human,caused global warming when even authors of an article in Climate Dynamics conceded that the average global surface temperatures stopped rising fifteen years ago.

    James, really? Obama is supposed to base his policy on global warming on one article in Climate Dynamics when 97% of climate scientists believe human influenced global “warming” is happening?

    There has been zero proof that Obama had anything to do with Susan Rice’s evasions. The only evidence we’ve seen is machinations by the State department to do damage control. If you say this should disqualify Clinton for 2017 POTUS I’m not sure I would argue with you.

    I do believe Obama spun ACA with the “keep your insurance/doctor” lie. So you’ve scored 1 out of 3.

  • 624. James  |  December 5, 2013 at 8:08 pm

    Rutherford, it is more than one article. I have known about the pause in warming for years,and I am not a scientist. The scientists of Climagegate discussed hiding the decline. They were puzzled because the data didn’t fit their models.Knowledge of this so called unexplainable pause has been with us for a long time. The liberal press and politicians have tried to avoid the subject, but now , the lies are harder to hide..

    Obama is using regulations to destroy the coal industry and our current oil boom is largely on private, not government land. Without private land, our oil production would be much lower than it is.

    Obama and Hillary repeated the lie to the UN, and they bought advertising space in Pakistan to decry the video. This continued for about two weeks, if I remember correctly. Why did the president of Libya and others tell us the truth while Susan Rice still blamed the video? Where did she get the video story? Why did I know it was a lie and told you so on this blog with the admonition that Obama should be impeached? I pray to God that they were lying. Otherwise they are like a five-year old driving a car.

    I’ve seen the territory before. When I was in the Air Force, my superiors lied to me and put me alone in harm’s way without telling me they were watching.

    This should certainly disqualify Hillary for 2017 POTUS. She should be serving time in prison. Admittedly my own experiences make me a trifle emotional.

    “There was a time
    I was a true believer
    yours was the only way
    Well, you can save all
    your sweet talking for some other fool.
    Only a fool would believe what you say
    Though you hide it so well
    it is easy to tell
    but I know a heartache when

    Time is a teacher
    He’s taught me well
    ; … but I know a heartache when I see one.’

    Jennifer Warnes

    This answer gives me a good excuse to quote the song.
    ,

  • 625. dead rabbit  |  December 5, 2013 at 9:00 pm

    Of course Obama directed Rice to lie. Like James says, the only alternative is incompetence on a level unimaginable.

    Only an utter fool or a cult member would actually believe Rice wasn’t splattered all over TV to do anything else other then spread a lie.

    Just follow the timeline. Add in the looming election and the ENDLESS OTHER LIES BY OBAMA.

    Disgusting that they framed it as an event in which the American first amendment caused a spontaneous riot when it was really a battle in the War on Terror in which our guys were buddy fucked.

    How in God’s name a free thinking person can’t see it for what it was is beyond me. Self delusion of the highest order.

    Rutherford still has his arm band on. Sick fuck.

  • 626. muffy  |  December 5, 2013 at 9:04 pm

    “Why don’t you articulate how much a leftist Obama is and please use the Daily Kos standard of leftism. Remember far left, left, moderate, right and far right can only be defined relatively. I would really like to see you prove how, relatively, Obama is far left.”

    I asked where the moderate Democrats were. You offered that Obama was a moderate. I asked what his moderate positions were.

    Can you name just one?

  • 627. El Tigre  |  December 5, 2013 at 9:11 pm

    “I see Obama much clearer than I ever did before. . .”
    :lol: :lol: :lol:

    So you’re just kind of seeing each other now?

    I really love that you claim Obama’s good intentions as some kind of salvation while admitting that one of his intentions is to lie to the American people to retain power.

    R, anyone that watches MSNBC without vomiting would give Obama a tongue bath if given the honor of being requested to. Cut the shit.

  • 628. dead rabbit  |  December 5, 2013 at 10:18 pm

    This Venn Diagram doesn’t make sense to :
    http://www.peta.org/about-peta/faq/what-is-petas-stance-on-abortion/

  • 629. James  |  December 5, 2013 at 11:32 pm

    I thought about PETA’s stance on abortion last night. Thanks for easing my mind.

    Maybe someone is interested in this. Mary Miller Arnold grew up a couple of counties east of us in Iowa. Her first claim to fame was that she beat Karen Carpenter in an audition for the First Edition, Kenny Rogers and other members of the New Christy Minstrels adapted a new proto acid metal rock personna when they sang “I just Dropped in to see what condition my condition was in.,”

    She sang on George Burns’ and Glen Campbel’s records, and she performed at the White House.

    Mary later married Roger Miller and still manages his estate. She sued for and won control of his music.She also was inducted to Iowa’s Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

    Her teachers told her she didn’t have the talent to be a professional singer.

  • 630. parker  |  December 5, 2013 at 11:38 pm

    R said: “I see Obama much clearer than I ever did before and much much clearer than you see him.”

    I agree with that.

    “I see a well intentioned man who by virtue of ambition and very good luck finds himself in over his head. He is not some crazed despotic leftist out to “change America fundamentally”.

    Agree there, also – on the first part. On the second, I think he really DOES want to fundamentally change America.

    Where else I think we may disagree is that I don’t believe you see that true-believer mindset as a threat. I see it as the worst kind. Was it CS Lewis who said that, paraphrasing: the worst kind of despot is the one that tortures you for what he perceives as your own good, for he will torture you without end, because he does with the approval of his own conscience? something like that…

    I think you and I both were talking about converting to Catholicism half in humor – firstly, because religion is such small potatoes that it would make a tinker’s damn to either of us if we did or not. More an amusement than else. “Sure, I’ll convert – what’s the downside?” It’s on about the same level as joining the Benevolent Society – of little matter either way. Secondly, I think you and I really like this Francis guy primarily because he is clearly a good man. As Gandhi said, “I rather like your Christ, but not your christians, because they are so unlike your Christ.” Summat like that… That’s why I like Francis; he is like your Christ and so unlike his church.

  • 631. Alfie  |  December 5, 2013 at 11:56 pm

    @ Muffy Thanks. I don’t hate the guy but I think he is opening himself up to being used and abused and that his early moves will not help his church.

    @ James Yeah I don’t think most of us on this side of the globe and perhaps parts of Europe can really get their heads around to what it is to be Ukrainian. Lets tick off some of the finer points. The neo-Soviets have killed one of their leaders (Yuschenko) and parlayed another into prison (Tymoshenko). They have faced the humiliation of having the Russians dictate their politics under threat of being cold (in the recent past Gazprom turned of the gas,literally) in the winter and of having an angry “trade” neighbor (this recent spat). They have dealt with their sovereignty being brutally trashed regards the Russian Black Sea fleet keeping their base under terms that makes the USN & Guantanamo seem like mutual love-fest stuff.

    @ Rutherford

    I see Obama much clearer than I ever did before and much much clearer than you see him. I see a well intentioned man who by virtue of ambition and very good luck finds himself in over his head. He is not some crazed despotic leftist out to “change America fundamentally”. The more you and yours insist that he is, the more you sound like a loon.

    Ummm…. That sounds not far off from the saying about when you find yourself in a hole the first thing you should do is STOP DIGGING!!!
    By nature that President Shovel Ready is indeed still digging a number of some very bad holes is fair game to the charge that he is indeed pursuing fundamental changes with a degree of negligence if not malice.
    Susan Rice is his girl Rutherford and he clearly had hands and heads ups on how she went out to slaughter on the shameful spin-fest. Flip the coin and way back machine Rutherford,were you ever so forgiving of Reagan during Iran Contra? puhleazzzze

  • 632. Alfie  |  December 6, 2013 at 12:06 am

    My contention is that good men (not bad men) consistently acting upon that position [imposing “the good”] would act as cruelly and unjustly as the greatest tyrants. They might in some respects act even worse. Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under of robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber barons cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some points be satiated; but those who torment us for their own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to heaven yet at the same time likely to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be “cured” against one’s will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on the level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.

    I imagine everyone here could have a book club moment with this exploring the more modern day applications.

  • 633. Alfie  |  December 6, 2013 at 12:11 am

    FWIW I thought R&P coming to church and or Christ was meant in humor but I would say I have to fully disagree with this:
    because religion is such small potatoes that it would make a tinker’s damn to either of us if we did or not
    In no way for all the good and bad tied to it can religion be correctly deemed small potatoes. I think it also goes without saying that an epiphany of salvation would be as moving (greatly more but…) to either of you as was the moments you experienced the birth of your secularism.
    I offer this in a totally friendly manner,no offense intended. Just really hit me when reading it and thought it worth telling you.

  • 634. El Tigre  |  December 6, 2013 at 12:22 am

    Obama and his supporters not doubt considers him well-intentioned. I’m sure Idi Amin and his supporters did too. :lol:

    Obama has demonized, vilified, and spent his time in office almost attacking the 1/2 of the country that don’t support him though he represents them. Hell, even after being elected he had the temerity to publicly declare to me/us as the “enemy.”

    Moreover, he is self-aggrandizing and narcissistic. He lacks humility is wiling to lie to promote an unpopular agenda and avoid blame.

    These characteristics are the antithesis of “well-intentioned.”

  • 635. El Tigre  |  December 6, 2013 at 1:41 am

    “James, really? Obama is supposed to base his policy on global warming on one article in Climate Dynamics when 97% of climate scientists believe human influenced global “warming” is happening?”

    Good grief, R. A claim that 97% of scientists (or for that matter any group other than political) agreeing on anything doesn’t raise create suspicion for you? Even when the so-called scientific consensus is applied to unproven projections and strings of mathematically discredited models (e.g. hockey stick)? No questions about whether the so-called study of studies was might have been a public relations exercise?

    Shame on me for thinking a math degree from Harvard would’ve refined your critical thinking skills when it comes to suspicious statistics.

    http://www.thegwpf.org/content/uploads/2013/09/Montford-Consensus.pdf

  • 636. muffy  |  December 6, 2013 at 2:37 am

    “I don’t hate the guy but I think he is opening himself up to being used and abused and that his early moves will not help his church.”

    I agree that he opens himself up to being used and abused and that it’s happening in a big way. I think the same happens to Ghandi. Maybe all spokesmen.

    Even if he did say it – which is by no means a certainty – that Ghandi quote makes no sense. Ghandi didn’t believe Christ was who he said he was. So Ghandi supposedly liked someone he believed to be a liar. ?

    Ghandi didn’t put much stock in grace – this much we do actually know.

    “I do not seek redemption from the consequences of my sin. I seek to be redeemed from sin itself, or rather from the very thought of sin. Until I have attained that end, I shall be content to be restless.” -actual Ghandi quote.

    Ghandi may have disliked Christians but what we know is that he disagreed with them. Ghandi saw salvation in terms of merit so maybe Christians out a bug up his bony ass. Not that unusual to dislike people with whom you disagree.

    But if he did say it then perhaps your Ghandi was more judgmental than the Christians he disliked. We don’t hear much from Christians about how they dislike Ghandi.

  • 637. muffy  |  December 6, 2013 at 2:59 am

    Why so obsessed with such small potatoes then Auntie P?

    Methinks thou doth…well, you know.

  • 638. Rutherford  |  December 6, 2013 at 3:55 am

    “Can you name just one?”

    I already did. You’re morphing from Tex to Tigre.

  • 639. Rutherford  |  December 6, 2013 at 6:45 am

    “We don’t hear much from Christians about how they dislike Ghandi.”

    No, the average Christian wouldn’t dislike him–they’d want to CONVERT him.

  • 640. Rutherford  |  December 6, 2013 at 6:53 am

    “Rutherford,were you ever so forgiving of Reagan during Iran Contra? puhleazzzze”

    I was a much younger man then. Forgiveness was not on my mind. Sadness and sympathy were, as I believe his testimony on Iran/Contra showed the first signs of his slipping away. As I said, I felt sad.

  • 641. Rutherford  |  December 6, 2013 at 6:55 am

    Could someone tell me how Obama wants to fundamental change America?

    NIXON WANTED UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE FOR FUCK’S SAKE!!!

  • 642. Rutherford  |  December 6, 2013 at 7:09 am

    So which of you contrarians wants to be the first to opine on how lousy Nelson Mandela was?

  • 643. an800lbgorilla  |  December 6, 2013 at 7:56 am

  • 644. El Tigre  |  December 6, 2013 at 8:20 am

    “I already did. You’re morphing from Tex to Tigre.”

    Yeah, Muffy. You’re starting to sound like a racist, corporate shill.

    No, he doesn’t have an example. Because R, believes in an imperial presidency, he thinks that pointing to Obama’s inability to achieve his objectives/ideal is proof they don’t exist.

    See what happens when you fall asleep during social studies in grade school? You replace your lack of knowledge with political messaging on teevee.

  • 645. El Tigre  |  December 6, 2013 at 8:30 am

    “NIXON WANTED UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE FOR FUCK’S SAKE!!!”

    Nixon saw the same drain through healthcare costs that every republican does and sought reform. His plan rested on employer mandates for limited employee benefits

    “While I oppose compulsory national health insurance, I have always supported federal assistance for catastrophic health care. My strong feelings in this respect are a direct result of losing two brothers to TB.” -Nixon

    Nixon never considered requiring individuals to purchase and pay for insurance they did not want FOR FUCK’S SAKE!!!!

  • 646. parker  |  December 6, 2013 at 8:39 am

    Thanks for the whole quote, Alfie. Yes, I think there is a whole book club meeting potential in those few words. Perhaps that quote describes why the far left AND far right are such abominations – they feel their POVs are so important and so compelling that they have not only the right, but the obligation, to force them on others.

    Ditto on religions. How anyone could look at international news and think submission to a religion is a good idea is beyond me. Your comment on religious (or agnostic) epiphanies ties in there, too. I don’t think the ordinary man-on-the-streeet has epiphanies. While the religious, I think, often have epiphanies, or moments of clarity, or whatever you want to call it, a bloke who isn’t particularly religious never gives it a thought and never has, except to say It Isn’t For Me.

    But because belief is so important to believers, they think it is a major topic for everyone. It’s not. Rutherford may feel differently; I can only speak for one. You in the States are the most religious people anywheres except for the muslims; most of the civilized world is not particularly religious, and it’s hard for Yanks to understand that sometimes. Other folks are not anti-religious; they just don’t care about it one way or another.

    But hell, I like this pope so much I’d join the church if it wasn’t too much trouble, like getting sprinkled with water or summat. Don’t have time to attend, though.

  • 647. parker  |  December 6, 2013 at 9:51 am

    Rutherford – you live in the Land of Lincoln, don’t you?

    Want to see the nearly-recalled governor of Wisconsin, what do you call it, open up a can of whoop-ass, on YOUR mayor and governor? Bloody hilarious, is what it is:

    http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-78450888/

    Math never lies. The Laffer curve never lies. Your state is on the rocks. There is Walker’s formula for getting out.

  • 648. James  |  December 6, 2013 at 9:54 am

    Nelson Mandela’s ex wife is a special woman who was convicted of murder and fraud. Nelson wisely divorced her.

    He once said “Money won’t create success. The freedom to make it will.”

    “it is better to lead from behind and to put others in front, especially when you celebrate victory when nice things occur. You take the front line when there is danger. Then, people will appreciate your leadership.”

    “It always seems impossible until it is done.”

    I like the quote too.

  • 649. El Tigre  |  December 6, 2013 at 11:35 am

    PF, what’s with the weird pretend Limey thing? The IP disguise shows you’re from Sweden or France I think. Like the time you were eating shrimp in Phoenix, I say when in Rome. . .

    (I trust you can complete it Ron Burgundy)

  • 650. El Tigre  |  December 6, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    I see Australian arrived after your post. Perhaps that explains it. :lol:

  • 651. muffy  |  December 6, 2013 at 12:59 pm

    :lol: Crikey.

    ”Could someone tell me how Obama wants to fundamental change America?”

    Do you mean “how” or “that” he wants to?

    As to the how – redistribution of wealth.

    That he wants to fundamentally transform America isn’t being called into question, is it?

  • 652. muffy  |  December 6, 2013 at 1:20 pm

    “No, the average Christian wouldn’t dislike him–they’d want to CONVERT him.”

    Before he was killed by Hindu extremists, perhaps. Or were they “average Hindus.”

    Congenial gang, Ghandi didn’t believe in conversion for anyone. A person couldn’t “become” saved, it must be earned.

    Moreover, he believed all religions were more or less true.

    Now while Rutherford ponders why the spider didn’t eat the fly on the ark, I personally am puzzled by this – how can all religions be true?

  • 653. muffy  |  December 6, 2013 at 1:28 pm

    @#643 – I saw some of it but I missed that.

    “Loyalists,” eh? Interesting choice.

  • 654. parker  |  December 6, 2013 at 2:36 pm

    “I came to the conclusion long ago that all religions were true and that also that all had some error in them, and while I hold by my own religion, I should hold other religions as dear as Hinduism. So we can only pray, if we were Hindus, not that a Christian should become a Hindu; but our innermost prayer should be that a Hindu should become a better Hindu, a Muslim a better Muslim, and a Christian a better Christian.” ~ Mohandas Gandhi

    It’s interesting how selective ignorance can alter someone else’s meanings, isn’t it?

  • 655. muffy  |  December 6, 2013 at 2:48 pm

    @#654 – I’m familiar with that part as well. What’s your point, oh tiresome one?

    I knew you of all people wouldn’t have an answer to the question but would open your maw anyway.

  • 656. Rutherford  |  December 6, 2013 at 5:45 pm

    “No, he doesn’t have an example. Because R, believes in an imperial presidency, he thinks that pointing to Obama’s inability to achieve his objectives/ideal is proof they don’t exist. ”

    Lots of crap signifying nothing. You’re using a lazy argument that relies on nothing but emotion. Very convenient to say Congress keeps him from achieving his “true” objective when you’ve made no effort to give evidence as to his true motives.

    Of course since you think you can divine what’s in my head it’s no wonder you think you can do the same with Obama. :roll:

  • 657. dead rabbit  |  December 6, 2013 at 7:02 pm

    Hey Parker…..if its such small potatoes why do you yap about it so much?

    Its your favorite subject outside of some personalized bombast.

  • 658. El Tigre  |  December 6, 2013 at 7:14 pm

    “Of course since you think you can divine what’s in my head it’s no wonder you think you can do the same with Obama.”

    All I have to do is turn on MSNBC.

    In Jambese:

    Meka Leka Hi Meka Hiney Ho.

    Meka Leka Hi Meka Chiney Ho.

    I also looked to your own examples, Nathan Thurm.

  • 659. Rutherford  |  December 6, 2013 at 7:19 pm

    “As to the how – redistribution of wealth.”

    Dumb dumb dumb. My history might be faulty but didn’t Woodrow Wilson usher in the fed income tax? Ever since we started a progressive income tax we engaged in redistribution of wealth. It ain’t nothing new and it’s no longer transformational.

    Try again Muffy. You’re flailing about like a fish out of water.

  • 660. Rutherford  |  December 6, 2013 at 7:21 pm

    “Now while Rutherford ponders why the spider didn’t eat the fly on the ark, I personally am puzzled by this – how can all religions be true?”

    EXACTLY–which is why NONE of them are true.

  • 661. Rutherford  |  December 6, 2013 at 7:26 pm

    “In Jambese:

    Meka Leka Hi Meka Hiney Ho.

    Meka Leka Hi Meka Chiney Ho. ”

    I think you’ve finally flipped your lid. ROTFL

  • 662. El Tigre  |  December 6, 2013 at 7:36 pm

    My lid done flipped a long, long time ago.

  • 663. Huck  |  December 6, 2013 at 7:58 pm

    “Very convenient to say Congress keeps him from achieving his “true” objective when you’ve made no effort to give evidence as to his true motives.”

    Doesn’t that sort of destroy your claim that his efforts are continuously “obstructed” by congress?

  • 664. El Tigre  |  December 6, 2013 at 8:08 pm

    “Doesn’t that sort of destroy your claim that his efforts are continuously “obstructed” by congress?”

    And paradoxically it’s that obstruction that proves him moderate.

    Mind blown.

  • 665. muffy  |  December 6, 2013 at 8:13 pm

    “Sadly Muffy you and so many others here have a bad case of Obama Derangement Syndrome.”

    I hope so, Rutherford.

  • 666. Rutherford  |  December 6, 2013 at 8:26 pm

    “Doesn’t that sort of destroy your claim that his efforts are continuously “obstructed” by congress?”

    Not at all. I’m not saying Obama has no goals nor any agenda. The argument is just how far left or transformational is this agenda?

    The fact Huck, is that Obama could take every idea from wunderkind Paul Ryan, slap the Obama name on it, and Congress would vote it down. Among the nay votes would be one from … Paul Ryan.

  • 667. muffy  |  December 6, 2013 at 8:32 pm

    “It ain’t nothing new and it’s no longer transformational.

    Try again Muffy. You’re flailing about like a fish out of water.”

    You’re projecting here I think. I don’t feel pressured to be right. Certainly not about this.

    I don’t think Obama’s vision is particularly original either – nevertheless I don’t see the goals of the past presidents as akin to his.

  • 668. Rutherford  |  December 6, 2013 at 8:39 pm

    While we’re on the topic of ODS let’s return to BDS for a moment.

    Today I saw a brief clip of GWB helping Mandela down the steps of the White House and it brought to mind other light, whimsical and outright funny clips of Bush over the years. Bush was never meant to lead a nation at war. The fact that nine months into his presidency we received the worst attack since Pearl Harbor was a terrible and unfair twist of fate.

    Maybe I’m full of the holiday season but I keep wondering what a good peacetime President Bush might have been. His post-presidency has been a real class act and may very well be a window into his basic decency.

    All the more reason to despise Dick Cheney who has been a prick in and out of office.

  • 669. muffy  |  December 6, 2013 at 8:39 pm

    “EXACTLY–which is why NONE of them are true.”

    I agree with the first part – Ghandi was wrong about that. I don’t see why that must necessarily mean the second part though. Is that math?

  • 670. Rutherford  |  December 6, 2013 at 8:49 pm

    “You’re projecting here I think. I don’t feel pressured to be right. Certainly not about this. ”

    Well ain’t that dandy? I wish I could debate with zero pressure to be right.

    I guess you follow the Fox News rules of debate — say any shit you like and Snopes be damned.

    Ooo ooo I forgot Snopes is a left wing propaganda machine. :-)

  • 671. Rutherford  |  December 6, 2013 at 9:00 pm

    “I don’t think Obama’s vision is particularly original either – nevertheless I don’t see the goals of the past presidents as akin to his.”

    And this is where the argument of you and your sympathizers falls short. You guess at the goals without foundation.

    Would you not agree that it’s a leap from Reagan saying “government is the problem” to declaring Reagan an anarchist?

    You folks take the Obama leap at every turn. A not too unusual liberal (actually pretty incompetent at imposing a lib agenda) is somehow an evil Marxist intent on changing the USA to the old USSR.

    Oh and he’s a Muslim sympathizer.

  • 672. Rutherford  |  December 6, 2013 at 9:08 pm

    Muffy the second part is true because none of the various factions has a method of proving themselves “true”. In matters of FAITH truth is irrelevant by definition.

    All religions build allegory around some historical facts and a good dose of moral instruction. At its best every religion is a how-to guide to living a decent life. The window dressing that illustrates the moral lessons is not worth debating.

    And most importantly, these moral lessons can be taught in a purely secular context.

  • 673. muffy  |  December 6, 2013 at 9:10 pm

    I can see how you misunderstood my remark.

    I don’t feel pressured to be right about Obama wanting to transform the nation, or wanting to redistribute wealth and achieving some success in that regard with government-run health insurance – because I thought that was self-evident.

    I need to know which one is you though – the guy who doesn’t think Obama wants to fundamentally transform the nation or the guy who thinks Obama is failing at fundamentally transforming the nation. Serious question.

  • 674. Rutherford  |  December 6, 2013 at 9:22 pm

    “I need to know which one is you though – the guy who doesn’t think Obama wants to fundamentally transform the nation or the guy who thinks Obama is failing at fundamentally transforming the nation. Serious question.”

    Obama is failing at furthering an age old agenda that is not transformational.

    To repeat, universal health insurance has been a goal of progressives for decades. Redistribution of wealth has been a feature of our tax code for almost a century.

    And here’s the elephant in the room Muffy. Via the marriage of money and politics the redistribution has played to the advantage of the rich making the top 1% control some 90% of the wealth. Do you know in the past 20 years the average worker has seen a 7% growth in income compared to the average CEO with a 700% growth.

    How is it that THAT doesn’t keep you, Rabbit and the rest up at night?

  • 675. Alfie  |  December 6, 2013 at 9:33 pm

    Redistribution of wealth has been a feature of our tax code for almost a century.

    Not for nothing but that is neither historically nor politically accurate.

  • 676. Rutherford  |  December 6, 2013 at 9:34 pm

    On a lighter note I wanted to offer a conjecture based on no inside info whatsoever.

    Every time in the past that Tex has stopped contributing here or has decreased frequency of posts it was always preceded by his leaving in a huff with lots of drama. Not this time. You know what I think? Again I’m pulling this out of my ass.

    I think our flame throwing friend is enjoying this time in his life and has reached a level of contentment. Maybe it’s his kids. Maybe seeing more of his wife. I don’t know but my gut tells me the man is doing well.

    While I am grateful for all the “hits” Tex has brought to the blog I also think there were times when his uber-presence here compensated for a hole somewhere else. It pleases me to think he’s living off the blog now more than in it.

    Anyway, just my two cents since I’ve thought about him recently in light of his fewer visits here.

  • 677. Rutherford  |  December 6, 2013 at 9:37 pm

    “Not for nothing but that is neither historically nor politically accurate.”

    Well I confessed earlier in the thread my history might be wrong. Teach, teacher. How is a progressive tax not akin to redistribution of wealth?

  • 678. dead rabbit  |  December 6, 2013 at 10:26 pm

    “And most importantly, these moral lessons can be taught in a purely secular context.” _R

    Unlike you and Pfessor, I find talking about my faith or lack of personal. It’s one of your favorite subjects. You guys love eating them taters.

    Trust me….my faith waivers back and forth, often reaching into the same depths of atheism as you two men.

    So, read the following from the mouth of a half assed philosopher and self described man of the people. Not a man of faith.

    I can’t disagree more. While I leave room that a decent moral code is possible sans faith, it is much, much harder to construct without a theology.

    When it comes to temptation, indulgence, impulse…mankind is often weak. I think we can all agree on that premise. To expect that same man to create his own subjective moral code on a consistent basis is a stretch.

    Sure, philosophers ranging from Socrates to Kant offer us theories in which a natural moral code arises solely on that fact that society as a whole benefits from it. Emaunual Kant, have you been in a public rest room?

    I have worked with the masses for almost 12 years now. And I say masses because that includes their parents as well.

    Without a doubt, the happier, more productive, honest, and respectful kids come from families of faith. Even in the prison system, I saw young men, some of them cold blooded killers, vastly improved after opening up that Bible.

    Repeat…..kids who come from Christian families are way more likely to be good kids then kids who don’t. They are also more likely to be successful and independent.

    Of course Rutherford….you could point to yourself. But, I have to wonder, does your moral code, which I’m guessing is a good one, arise from your predicament? Many kids never cheat on tests because they don’t have to. Many are not physical bullies because they are weak. Many don’t steal because they don’t go without. Lastly, a very straight forward and rational fear of consequences can steer even the sociopath away from ever getting as much as a speeding ticket. To me, that isn’t a moral code.

    I’m not saying its impossible for a secular construct to produce good people. But to say that secularism produces morality on a scale comparable to Christianity has not been my experience nor do I find it very logical.

    But, you say the Salem Witch Hunts, the Spanish Inquisition…blah blah blah.

    I argue that in almost every case Christianity was a blunt force of violence, it WAS the state. The Church didn’t hijack Spain, Spain hijacked the Church. In some ways, the Church was actually secular during those times!

    Lastly, and this has been said before, there as never been an atheist state that wasn’t horribly evil on a scale unimaginable.

    Premise: Man is weak.
    Weak men give into to temptation.
    Conclusion: It’s too hard to build good character without an eternal square and compass.

    This brings me to Gandhi. His religious pluralism was always nothing more then standard Hindu theology. Have a good square and compass and it’s more likely you will have good karma. The good Christian is very close to becoming one with Para Brahman. The average Hindu a million life times away.

  • 679. poolman  |  December 6, 2013 at 10:36 pm

    Rutherford, have you ever read the new testament? Just curious. You seem pretty sure there is no true God. That is a common form of religion in today’s world, one called secularism. This world is full of religions, everyone worships something. It’s in our makeup. Part of the DNA. Do you believe in anything supernatural? It is only recent that we’ve coined that word, as all other eras have considered the supernatural as a part of the natural.

    I, on the other hand, serve the Living God. I am certain my Creator exists and I commune with Him all the time. I sing praise and pray continually. I seek His guidance. God is Spirit. Like the wind, you don’t where it comes from or where it goes, but you certainly know it exists. I believe we were made in the image of God, and therefore have all of His potential at hand. Jesus said the Kingdom is at hand, after all, and the things He did we would be able to do also. Even greater! So I guess that is my religion, or rather, my faith, really my life. A spiritual journey, I suppose.

    As to other religions, Jesus said He has sheep in other pastures. I don’t pretend to know who they are. He was also sought and worshiped by magi, which were neither Jews nor Christians. He did say He was the Gate, and the Word, and the Light. He said no man can come to the Father except by Him. Certainly all truth seekers can know Him as one of His many personalities. He is above all names.

  • 680. poolman  |  December 6, 2013 at 10:47 pm

    So let me get this straight. Rutherford celebrates Christmas, right? I know it is basically a pagan rite, but the Nativity and the Christ child is pretty dominant. Do you treat it as fairy tale? Is it just like the Easter bunny and tooth fairy?

    I dislike the consumerism and avoid it whenever possible. I do like the lights and the Jesus music.

  • 681. poolman  |  December 7, 2013 at 12:09 am

  • 682. muffy  |  December 7, 2013 at 12:56 am

    I’ve given it some thought and I never got the sense that Reagan was an anarchist because I never thought he was lying about his intentions to shrink government. Obama has been lying about his intentions – and others have been lying about it on his behalf as well all this time.

    That probably concerns me more than anything. I don’t trust the guy. At all. Or too many of his followers, starting with the media. And I look at Reid – fucker lied today and said Obama WASN’T lying about if you like your plan you can keep it. I mean come on. What the hell is going on what in the age when every word and nosepick is preserved on record he can sit there and lie like that.

    Being lied to sucks.

    Benghazi is another one – there’s not a single shred of proof Obama knew anything about the video bullshit and Susan Rice’s performance…but he spewed similar garbage himself. So did Hillary. So did Carney. That memorial service will be forever etched in my mind as the day I realized something very disquieting about the leaders of this country at this time and myself. And our respective enemies.

    Obama’s enemies are Republicans.

    But I digress too much. I just wanted to give you Rutherford the thrust of my initial outcry about where are the moderate Democrats…

    There was a time when this (see link below for example) was lied about, covered up, we were told we were racist and paranoid and – as in the case with this example – we were taking Obama out of context. Misrepresenting him. We were wrong. We had ODS.

    http://patterico.com/2012/09/24/turns-out-obama-was-talking-about-redistribution-of-wealth-after-all/

    Five years into this man’s reign and we’re no longer pretending that he’s not talking about redistribution but they’re still lying about it (you can keep your healthcare) and the frog is about cooked.

  • 683. muffy  |  December 7, 2013 at 1:04 am

    Rabbit, that was a pleasure to read (#678).

    It’s been a while since we brawled about religion, this latest dustup coinciding with Doc Parker Pfesser’s triumphant return to the RL Blog and Suds. Love them taters.

    “At its best every religion is a how-to guide to living a decent life.”

    Rutherford I’m only guessing that this is what prompted Poolman to ask you if you’ve ever read the NT because this description can be applied to the OT, specifically even to the 10 commandments. But not to the New Testament.

    Doesn’t matter anyway. You don’t go changing to try and please me.

    As for Tex, I miss him.

  • 684. Rutherford  |  December 7, 2013 at 1:05 am

    Poolman growing up and into adulthood Christmas has always been a commercial affair for me. Growing up, I no more believed in God than I believed in Santa. In fact a friend of my mother once told her, “I would never tell Johnny there’s no Santa Claus. Then he might wonder if there is no God.”

    As I think I’ve said before there are things I can’t explain. If you want to call that supernatural fine by me. I think I differ from the average secularist in that I think there are questions that will NEVER be satisfactorily answered, not by science or any other method. I think life has inexplicable mysteries. I choose not to put that in the God bucket.

    Also, unlike the average secularist I entertain the notion I could be wrong. Not likely but possible. And like everyone else on this board I’ll find out someday.

    One of the things I thought when my mother died, after I regained my composure, was — now she knows the truth.

  • 685. muffy  |  December 7, 2013 at 1:31 am

    One more word re: Tex – he telegraphed why he wouldn’t be around as much. I’ll look for it some other time but while it’s not exactly as you say R – you’re not entirely off base (if I remember correctly.)

  • 686. Tex Taylor  |  December 7, 2013 at 3:55 am

    Hi Congenial gang…baloney, shalome, ET Phone Homey.

    “R”, you may be more right about me than you’ll ever know. However, I do miss my pals here as I always enjoyed the conversation.

    For some reason the last month or so, I have lost interest in participating in “blogging.” Not even baiting the Left and reminding them of Obama’s dismal performance and their idiocy “worshiping this spectacular fraud,” and it now being so transparently obvious to everyone that even some drones are turning on this charlatan, has been enough to tempt me.

    Muffy, there are four or five people here I would dearly love to meet in real life. I mean really meet and converse. You are one of them – wonderfully witty and personally interesting.

    Now, Mr. Rutherford. There are two things that you say over and over that are beyond ignorant. The first is that you see no evidence of God. You are blind and apparently purposely so. That foolishness is of such magnitude, that your original “faith” in Obama is insignificant on the scale of inanity.

    The second is that all religions are basically the same – therefore none of them can be true. The depth of stupidity in that statement is so incomprehensible, I could write an entire book upon the ‘sands’ of its foundation.

    I surmised long ago that the most arrogant and shallow of all men (and women) were the ones that had determined (1) They were smart enough to determine morality; (2) that man capable of understanding all knowledge, comprehension and process.

    And paradoxically, these same scoffers almost always think of themselves as being the smartest folk in the room and are eventually demonstrated as unsatisfied fools – unhappy and never truly content.

    The only real question that really confounds me anymore about God, more specifically Jesus, is why would an insignificant entity of myself be considered so fundamentally important?

  • 687. parker  |  December 7, 2013 at 9:11 am

    Rutherford said, “I think life has inexplicable mysteries. I choose not to put that in the God bucket.”

    Surely. Gods have always been what we cannot explain; as we explain more, they become less.

    “Also, unlike the average secularist I entertain the notion I could be wrong.”

    Not sure what a “secularist” is – would you call someone who doesn’t believe in fairies a “non-fairie-ist?” To my mind there are believers, and the uninterested. By dividing the world in two, I think you give it an importance that the civilized world doesn’t.

    And of course you could be wrong. It comes under the heading of, “you can’t prove a negative.” Want to claim descendence from an African King? Go ahead! Nobody can prove that you are not. It can be proven very, very unlikely – so unlikely as to be vanishingly small – so unlikely as to be not worth a long discussion, even. Like other topics, for example.

    “And like everyone else on this board I’ll find out someday.”

    No you won’t; the mystery will remain, but won’t have anything to do with you. Mysteries are for the living – that person who was you will be gone – there will be no observer to receive the information.

  • 688. parker  |  December 7, 2013 at 10:22 am

    Rutherford – I have been using NetNewsWire to get my global news via RSS. It lets one pick and choose global news organizations and bypass what Sarah Palin calls “lamestream media.” (Great term) Take a boo at NetNewsWire to make your use of time more efficient.

    I just picked up the evening’s feed from Forbes, and ran across an article on the 50 best countries to do business. I thought you might like an excerpt from the article:

    Ireland Heads Forbes’ List Of The Best Countries For Business

    While Ireland (No. 1) moves up the ranks, the U.S. continues a four-year slide to No. 14 after ranking second in 2009 (the U.S. ranked 12th in 2012). The U.S. gets dinged for the Federal Reserve’s easy-money program, which has distorted prices and risked long-term inflation. It ranks 80th out of 145 countries for monetary freedom. Only the U.K. fares worse among the top 50 countries. The U.S. has also ramped up its rules on businesses. The Heritage Foundation cites more than 100 major new federal regulations on businesses since 2009 with an annual cost of $46 billion.

    The U.S. fares poorly for its excessive tax burden, which ranks 51st (only Belgium is worse in the top 20). U.S. statutory corporate tax rates are the highest in the world among developed countries, although tax breaks reduce the overall burden. But an equally large problem is the complexity of the tax code. The World Bank says the typical medium-size business requires 175 hours to comply with U.S. tax laws.

    Notice anything special about your country’s slide from #2 to #14? Like the date?

  • 689. Huck  |  December 7, 2013 at 11:29 am

    I would just like to say…

    …the snow officially sucks when you are traveling and not prepared to deal with it.

    That is all.

  • 690. Huck  |  December 7, 2013 at 11:39 am

    “So let me get this straight. Rutherford celebrates Christmas, right? I know it is basically a pagan rite, but the Nativity and the Christ child is pretty dominant. Do you treat it as fairy tale? Is it just like the Easter bunny and tooth fairy?”

    I can’t speak for Rutherford or anyone else, but as for me, I treat the Nativity and such like what it is…history.

    The Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy have never existed. Jesus did. Regardless of whether or not I believe he was resurrected after his death, I have no problems believing that he walked the earth and is an important figure in the history of mankind.

    As far as I am concerned, Christmas celebrates his birth. I see no problems being secular and still recognizing the day for what it is.

  • 691. Tex Taylor  |  December 7, 2013 at 11:44 am

    …the snow officially sucks when you are traveling and not prepared to deal with it.

    Try to look at the bright side of things, Huck. You could live in Oklahoma like I do and be staring at 1″ of ice right now, with 5″ of snow sitting on top of that and 10 degree temperatures.

    I was working in a t-shirt outside last Wednesday.

    Even my half lab mutt wouldn’t go for a walk this morning.

  • 692. James  |  December 7, 2013 at 12:06 pm

    I notice Parker.

    This is hyperbole, but not by much.

    Obama has hinted at his socialism since before he became president. In fact, he was affiliated with and probably was a member of The New Party when he was an Illinois politician. Obama hates the British because they imprisoned his Mau Mau grandfather, and he wants to dismantle the white colonialist empires He also wants to destroy Israel.

    Obama plans for the United States to relinquish its pre eminent role and become just another country. he works toward the asset equality of a socialist country, and uses ObamaCare to help bring his vision to pass.He accepts the wealth of our betters who would rule our sorry bodies. He uses welfare and its relatives to domesticate us like dependent cattle.

    The man is a would be tyrant who wants to impose his vision on us all. He has no intention of relinquishing power, and his strategy is to produce a permanent Democratic majority.

    Michele told us what to expect after she said for the first time in her life she was proud of this country. She said with Obama we would be forced to look at our history and lives differently. We would view our world and act in ways previously unknown to us.

    They are using their useful idiots as Lenin and later Chicago anti-war protest leaders used their followers to disrupt the National Convention. The hapless fools had little clue about the violence which would envelope them, but their leaders did. It was part of the plan. They told us so on national British television.

    On a related note, I never believed in Santa Clause, and when I was in second or third grade, I told my classmates that Santa was just a ruse to make us behave before Christmas. Four girls cried, and one told the teacher.

    The teacher called me in and chewed me out for about twenty minutes. She called me a horrible little boy.

    I was right about Santa, and I am right about Obama. Lucky for us, he is no Lenin or even Bill Ayres.

  • 693. James  |  December 7, 2013 at 12:13 pm

    It was -10 this morning, but the nearest snow is about sixty miles north of us. We have a 100% chance of snow tomorrow with up to five inches of fluff possible.We plan to drive back to Omaha in the snow with my skies inside our car.

    Snow on ice is about the worst possible combination in weather. I hope people still have electricity.

  • 694. parker  |  December 7, 2013 at 12:22 pm

    Huck on Jesus – I agree. Very important historical figure. Likely Jesus was an early-day Gandhi – a really good man with a really good message. I don’t think he EVER referred to himself as holy – that was generated by those trading off his name later. (James, you know more bible than I do; is that right?)

    Likely the Jesus cult started as a grass-roots effort, but once the smart people figured out where the Christ-parade was going, the got in front and led the march – empowering themselves immeasurably in the process – hence the Church. It always happens that way – the sheep are sheared over and over – no matter the movement.

    And I love Christmas – so many beautiful childhood memories, and such an important time to reconnect with your family.

    – other than those you would like to throttle. Any of you blokes have relatives like that? That you pray don’t show up for Xmas?

  • 695. poolman  |  December 7, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    30 degrees on my patio today, as was yesterday. I don’t like the cold, and for us, this is cold. Wife had to cover all the sensitive plants and pick all the green tomatoes. I am doing a tile job and I was in tee shirt and shorts the first of the week. Brrrr. You guys can have your snow and ice. I’ll take the heat over the cold any day.

    Huck, at least you believe the truth that Jesus did live and walked the earth. That puts you moreso in the reality camp. There is a whole group of deniers that think the whole thing made up. I think Parker’s in that camp. It does require more faith for the latter, since the evidence is much more in favor of his reality. I always chuckle when the folks that claim he is make believe try to explain the BC/AD thing. Usually they dig in and claim it a huge world-wide deception. But those same folks can’t imagine a 9/11 type wide deception.

    People are funny. I have had some interesting discussions regarding theology in my time. The God bucket, huh? I’m sure we’re just a drop in the bucket in His HUGE universe.

    My wife enjoys watching Ancient Aliens, and has probably seen every episode. It will expand your knowledge, but the theology presented is a mixed bag. It is obvious there were intelligent beings here way before our modern age and we still cannot explain much of what they did, where they came from, or what their technological feats were. I remember learning in history that the pyramids were tombs for the pharoahs. Now they know that was NOT their purpose and many suspect they were some type of power grid. They even have proved the giants we have been told existed, as described in the book of Enoch. The history we are taught is false, big time. If anyone still believes Columbus discovered America, I’ve got some prime acreage in Florida you might be interested in.

  • 696. poolman  |  December 7, 2013 at 12:40 pm

    I guess I was wrong. Parker does admit Jesus was a real figure in history. For some reason I thought you were of the Zeitgeist mindset, that He was just a myth, along the lines of Osiris, et al.

    Once the people co-opt religion and make it an institution, expect corruption and deception. There are no holy human institutions.

  • 697. Alfie  |  December 7, 2013 at 2:04 pm

    @ Rutherford I am as you may have noticed pretty much a concrete terms kind of guy. You are mixing the stew in your follow up question in # 677 How is a progressive tax not akin to redistribution of wealth?
    Progressive taxation is a system and yes it has been around since the dawn of our tax code. Wealth redistribution is another animal entirely.
    Wilson initiated an income tax to actually pay our bills and veer away from the bonkers tariff system we had. We had attempted an income tax prior to this but it was ruled unconstitutional.The income tax code for many years met this need and taxed people in a “progressive” manner but the funds didn’t go the progressive/socialist redistribution route. This held true through our history right up to the oft cited and wrongly so Ike years 90% tax rate.
    If you back track to FDR you get a good whiff of what may be considered our first government run redistribution schemes. These fell flat though and WWII is what drove our economy. (this is seen via 19237 mini depression and our post war economy)
    You have to get to Johnson to get to true redistributive tax/spending policy.
    The obvious hair you can split here and folks may not find you incorrect goes like this. Tax revenue that is spent stimulates the greater economy and ideally leads to more tax revenue. This is clearly applicable to MIC spending since WWII. Some would call that redistribution. I can’t and I don’t think my allies do either. What we see as truly redistributive is the abyss that is the social programs spawned by The Great Society.
    So in summary it is by no stretch of the imagination a 100 year thing. In the sweet irony history provides those that pay attention we are in the same boat we were a century ago. The tariff system had become the political hack pig (thus in need of reform) that todays government entitlements spending is. (reform anyone?)

  • 698. Alfie  |  December 7, 2013 at 2:05 pm

    1937 mini…

  • 699. Rutherford  |  December 7, 2013 at 4:17 pm

    “because this description can be applied to the OT, specifically even to the 10 commandments. But not to the New Testament.”

    I guess I don’t follow. I vaguely remember learning some story about Zachias, a midget tax collector who climbed a tree to see Jesus and ended up having lunch with him and learning some lesson about greed and charity.

    Isn’t the NT full of such stories that are meant to teach us how to live a decent life? The Ten Commandments is very direct but the stories in the NT are just as instructive. No?

  • 700. Rutherford  |  December 7, 2013 at 4:22 pm

    “(2) that man capable of understanding all knowledge, comprehension and process”

    If you read my earlier comment you’d know I do not believe this. I believe there are unanswerable questions.

  • 701. Rutherford  |  December 7, 2013 at 4:22 pm

    By the way, good to see you Tex.

  • 702. parker  |  December 7, 2013 at 5:29 pm

    Alfie – You mentioned a progressive tax.

    I think a progressive tax system is a very important concept, because Money makes Money. It would seem to me that you want people to be compensated according to their effort and the value of their work, but money makes money without added effort by the owner. Like having a slave working for you, one that gets stronger every year.

    On the other hand, if you confiscate moneys made by investment, you kill the animal spirits of the investor and you don’t want THAT, either.

    The compound interest curve is exponential, not linear. Why not have a progressive tax system that would follow an exponential curve, but parallel to a curve of say, 8%? That way, if you make more money you keep more, but you also pay more. It keeps the incentive to invest, but blunts the advantage of already starting out rich.

  • 703. Rutherford  |  December 7, 2013 at 7:15 pm

    Alfie perhaps we need to define redistribution. To me a progressive tax where the rich pay a higher percentage of their wealth than do the poor is ipso facto redistribution. You seem to limit the definition to only those cases where the poor exclusively receive benefit from those tax dollars.

    The notion that the rich have a greater ability and therefore a greater obligation to contribute financially to society is not new and is redistributive.

    I think you’re getting at this tacit notion that only the rich get to bitch about how their tax dollars are spent. It’s not redistribution so long as the rich like where their tax dollars are going.

  • 704. Rutherford  |  December 7, 2013 at 7:19 pm

    On a side note, I heard a quote supposedly from Maggie Thatcher (I haven’t verified it) that goes:

    “There is no society. There is only the individual and his family.”

    That’s one scary perspective. If that is the root of conservatism then conservatism is rotten right down to the roots.

  • 705. Rutherford  |  December 7, 2013 at 7:21 pm

    “Hi Congenial gang…baloney, shalome, ET Phone Homey.”

    That cracked me up. Makes one wonder how the folks at FG can stand their own pretentiousness.

  • 706. dead rabbit  |  December 7, 2013 at 7:52 pm

    Everywhere I’ve ever lived, the local always say the same damn thing, “if you don’t like the weather just wait 5 minutes.” But weather extremes in Tex’s home state blow my mind.

    On another note, the fact that Tex’s internet handle is of a state next door goes to show just what a beast that state is. I rather be known as the Gay Bunny then the Buckeye Bunny as I despise everything about Ohio. But Oklahoma seems to be just a satellite of Texas. Wtf Tex? Is there not a rivalry?

  • 707. Rutherford  |  December 7, 2013 at 8:20 pm

    Just found out Liz Warren said she’s not running for Prez in 2016. Maybe she changes her mind in the unlikely event Hillary doesn’t run. Otherwise 2016 will be a zero inspiration election year for me.

    I’ll have to abandon my lib agenda and vote for the straight talker Christie.

    By the way Muffy, if you find Obama transformational in a bad way then I suspect Warren would be your worst nightmare.

  • 708. Rutherford  |  December 7, 2013 at 8:28 pm

    On a side note, my lungs have gone straight to hell after going out in 10 degrees to attend my kid’s gymnastics meet. Even an albuterol/ipratoprium treatment has brought me little relief. :-(

    At least the kid came in 2nd Vault, 1st Bars, 2nd Beam, 7th Floor and 2nd all around. Lungs drowning in snot is just the price I have to pay. Hopefully it warms up a bit before the next meet in 2 weeks.

  • 709. Rutherford  |  December 7, 2013 at 8:33 pm

    Rabbit I saw a dead ringer for you at the meet today. Reminded me of you and your boy’s wrestling exploits. What kind of sports dad are you? One of the quiet ones or a yeller?

    When my kid competes I have to be very careful not to morph into someone I wouldn’t like. Fortunately I’ve got my wife there to keep me in line.

  • 710. Alfie  |  December 7, 2013 at 9:34 pm

    Rutherford you are blurring lines and confusing yourself with your partisanship.
    I don’t know how much I should slog on this especially since you’re ill.
    I can’t stress enough that redistribution of wealth is not tied to any tax model,at least no western ones.
    Progressive taxation still uses marginal rate tables. This is what made the Eisenhower 90% thing so laughable. It is also what makes some of the ire raised by righties less than logical. To use the Ike example back in the day if you made one million and one dollars you didn’t pay 90% tax on that amount,ergo although there was/is a progressive tax it isn’t necessarily blatantly confiscatory. You pay at rates all along the scale up to the million. It would only have been the last dollar you got shafted on and left a dime. Again the joke is though nobody had million dollar salaries back then so the millionaires of the 50 s were safe.
    Back to the meat of your comment in # 703 you talk about the rich paying more to society. Here again your partisanship is shining through. The government wasn’t meant to support society. Society established government for its benefit,your types ruined that.
    Your class warfare dogma in 703 is bad stuff. I stand by me earlier #697

  • 711. Alfie  |  December 7, 2013 at 9:44 pm

    Rutherford regards your Thatcher comment. You are again a victim of your own party line goose stepping stuff.

    ‘I think we have gone through a period when too many children and people have been given to understand “I have a problem, it is the Government’s job to cope with it!” or “I have a problem, I will go and get a grant to cope with it!” “I am homeless, the Government must house me!” and so they are casting their problems on society and who is society? There is no such thing! There are individual men and women and there are families and no government can do anything except through people and people look to themselves first… There is no such thing as society. There is living tapestry of men and women and people and the beauty of that tapestry and the quality of our lives will depend upon how much each of us is prepared to take responsibility for ourselves and each of us prepared to turn round and help by our own efforts those who are unfortunate.’

    So you see in full context she is the opposite of the likes of FDR,Johnson and Obama in that she believes in people over government.

  • 712. Rutherford  |  December 7, 2013 at 9:59 pm

    “The government wasn’t meant to support society.”

    Yup there’s that variation on the Maggie Thatcher quote. In one sentence Alfie I think you have articulated the chasm between lib and rightie.

  • 713. Rutherford  |  December 7, 2013 at 10:09 pm

    My previous comment was written prior to reading the full Thatcher quote from Alfie.

    Even in context, Thatcher’s comment supports those with a sink or swim attitude toward those less fortunate. It suggests that together we are NOT stronger than we are apart — which is the entire point of society, i.e. that we are stronger together.

  • 714. Alfie  |  December 7, 2013 at 10:09 pm

    Sadly Rutherford the most glaring variation/interpretation is that you and yours believe in government OVER the People instead of the whole by and for stuff.

  • 715. Alfie  |  December 7, 2013 at 10:16 pm

    OMG!!!!!!!!! No it doesn’t mean that at all!

  • 716. Huck  |  December 7, 2013 at 11:11 pm

    “Even in context, Thatcher’s comment supports those with a sink or swim attitude toward those less fortunate.”

    Yeah, that clearly comes through when she says this….

    “There is living tapestry of men and women and people and the beauty of that tapestry and the quality of our lives will depend upon how much each of us is prepared to take responsibility for ourselves and each of us prepared to turn round and help by our own efforts those who are unfortunate.”

    Did you not understand the words or did you just not read them?

  • 717. poolman  |  December 7, 2013 at 11:48 pm

    OMG! You really have never read the NT. That is awesome. I’d suggest reading Luke. Not very long and especially seasonal. I’m sure it will be familiar. Go with an NIV or NAS version for ease of understanding. Merry Christmas!

  • 718. Rutherford  |  December 8, 2013 at 1:37 am

    So Poolman, the NT teaches nothing? Honestly I have no idea what you are talking about.

  • 719. Rutherford  |  December 8, 2013 at 1:42 am

    The whole point of a representative government is that “over” the people is ipso facto for and by the people.

    The for and by consists of our choosing who will govern “over” us and if we are displeased with how they do it we go to the polls and throw the bums out.

  • 720. Rutherford  |  December 8, 2013 at 1:44 am

    Huck let’s just say I disagree with Thatcher that looking out for those most unfortunate is the exclusive duty of charitable organizations, which is her implication. I believe government does have a role.

  • 721. Huck  |  December 8, 2013 at 5:00 am

    You can disagree with her position all you want, but your claim that she takes “a sink or swim attitude toward those less fortunate” is clearly proven false.

  • 722. Alfie  |  December 8, 2013 at 9:02 am

    I don’t know about anyone else but all your ipso facto tossing in this thread is getting annoying.

    Your #719 shows you to be either ignorant or naive regards political realities. That in the United States government has grown out of control,into a leviathan bent on self preservation is undeniable and makes your statement ridiculous.You’ve agreed before on my comments about Americans focus and political attention span. That is a learnt behavior as the majority of the eligible voters have become little more than Pavlovian mutts acting on the whistles of their respective party masters.

    As for your continued arrogance towards Thatchers comment its clear you don’t like to have your prejudices challenged. She didn’t say anything about charities taking it all on. I don’t have the time or really the desire to school you on Margaret Thatchers statement and leadership. Suffice to say you have embraced a misquote to be the end all and are not letting go. The political and economic history of Britain at the time Thatchers Conservatives were seated is something to bone up on.The USA finds itself on the same road at full speed and the cliff is very,very high indeed.

    All in all you seemingly have no capacity to admit that entitlement programs no matter what virtue their genesis had have indeed become nothing but a deadly quagmire for all concerned.
    Spoilers…those who will be the first and worst effected are those most in need.

  • 723. dead rabbit  |  December 8, 2013 at 9:25 am

    Rutherford,

    Believe it or not, I’m a quiet one. This goes totally against my nature but I have taken a vow to not be that crazy loud parent.

    In wrestling, I don’t say a word.

    My 4 year old has his first match today. Problem is he was added in at the last second and will be wrestling a coach’s son who is a year older and 5 pounds or more heavier. My son is about to get his ass kicked in a way he has never experienced before. My fear is that his love for the sport vanishes instantly. But I’m so damn curious on how he responds to this, I allowed him to be added, despite the disadvantage.

  • 724. James  |  December 8, 2013 at 10:28 am

    You could be right, Rabbit. Another possibility is that he takes after you and your wife, and his toughness will make him even more determined to win next time.

  • 725. James  |  December 8, 2013 at 10:46 am

    While I agree with alfie, Rutherford, I think you have come a long way.It is hard to realize views you have internalized are not what you thought they should be.

    Google Strawbs-Part of the Union 1973 Youtube Video.

    “so though I’m a working man
    I can ruin the government’s plan
    I’m not too hard,
    but the sight of my card
    makes me some kind of superman.
    Oh, you don’t get me
    I’m part of the union
    Till the day I die.”

    Apart from being a nice song,its words describe in a nut shell part of the British economic sickness before Thatcher.

    I hope you feel better soon. The two week extended outlook shows less cold weather coming.

    Liz Warren claims to be an Indian. Yet, she looks like many of my relatives. Maybe I am a Native American too. Its true some Sami people call themselves white American Indians. Maybe I misjudged her when she apparently declared herself to be a minority to gain special treatment.

  • 726. parker  |  December 8, 2013 at 11:02 am

    Alfie – regards mischaracterizing P.M. Thatcher. That seems to me to be typical, and the largest difficulty, in getting the two sides to work together. One side (either side) jumps on ANY negative hyperbole about the other and promotes it as true, when even a moment’s consideration would tell you that NOBODY would act that way. Then the other side spends all its time pointing out the error, in order to show that their opponents are unreasonable and liars.

    When, in point of fact, both sides behave the same way.

    In the meantime, nothing gets done.

    I think your assessment of America on the TGV to perdition is right on the money. And the – what does poolman call them – sheeple? keep right on keepin’ on, putting the same ne’er do wells back in office. It only takes a few buzz phrases from the crooks, people nod their heads, say Yassah! and vote them back in.

  • 727. El Tigre  |  December 8, 2013 at 11:49 am

    Wondering if that pontification on a blog that’s only purpose is to exchange ideas “gets anything done.”

  • 728. poolman  |  December 8, 2013 at 12:12 pm

    So Poolman, the NT teaches nothing? Honestly I have no idea what you are talking about.

    The NT is many things, but primarily it describes the new relationship between the Creator and His created. A teacher can only teach those willing to learn, Rutherford. Yes, there are moral lessons and examples. Yes, there are profound truths. Yes, Jesus was called teacher.

    My point is that you have often made silly statements and have sometimes asked questions that a simple read through would answer. It just seems crazy to have lived this long and yet have never read the one collection that has such massive impact on our world and discussion today.

    The gospel according to Luke is the story of the life of Jesus from birth to death to resurrection, and so would give you a nice and accurate overview. It takes up a whole 22 pages in my Bible. It was written much like a documentary. Luke was a physician and has also been attributed to writing the book of Acts. The rest of the NT consists of the three other gospels and letters to the early church, that at the time, primarily met in homes and underwent continual harassment and persecution from the established religions and governing bodies of the day. There were numerous other gospels and letters that never made it into the canon. Some translations include additional writings as in the Catholic Apocrypha. All are available online.

  • 729. Huck  |  December 8, 2013 at 1:02 pm

    Did you wrestle in school, DR?

    I did not, but my kids did all 4 years and my oldest is now the head coach at that same school. I don’t have any experience to draw from, and have to resign myself to sitting in the stands as a pure spectator. Although I admit I am not the most quiet person in the place.

  • 730. parker  |  December 8, 2013 at 3:30 pm

    regards “exchanging ideas” vs. “getting something done.”

    It is only by the former that the latter is possible.

    In point of fact, it is precisely the hard-shell, “I have all the answers, and those who disagree are bad people” mindset – which is to say, I Don’t Want to Hear Your Ideas – that prevents “getting something done.”

    Which is why Rutherford’s Bar and Grill provides a service beyond the obvious.

  • 731. El Tigre  |  December 8, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    Old chum, having closed the circle of logic, we Yanks might say, “you complete me.”

    Pip pip, cheerio, and all that rot.

  • 732. Rutherford  |  December 8, 2013 at 9:47 pm

    Alfie I think you oversimplify my position (perhaps as I oversimplified Thatcher’s).

    I agree that unconditional handouts don’t fight poverty. Any effective strategy provides short term relief to those in need ALONG WITH an opportunity to eliminate the need.

    The fundamental question is what is government’s role in this? I gather that Thatcher and Reagan share the belief that the role is minimal, close to nonexistent.

    As for the proper functioning of a Democratic Republic, could the sad truth be that this model of government only works for an intelligent and curious populace? Hence its failure in Egypt and Iraq and its slow decline here in the US of A.

  • 733. parker  |  December 8, 2013 at 9:54 pm

    Rutherford – here is a great interview with Mike Rowe, answering questions about American work ethic, college, and a plethora of other things. It’s a bit long, but readable in about fifteen minutes for an average reader. I’d like to see what others think; I find his logic very appealing.

    http://profoundlydisconnected.com/cnn-viewer-has-questions/

  • 734. dead rabbit  |  December 8, 2013 at 10:01 pm

    Huck,

    I didn’t wrestle. . So, I don’t know shit and let the coaches do the coaching. This was our first tournament today. I wasn’t the mouse that I am at practice. I cheered him on and laughed my ass off.

    My kid did good. Lost, but scored 5 points on him. He didn’t get stomped and he loved it.

    Its a great sport.

  • 735. dead rabbit  |  December 8, 2013 at 10:20 pm

    By the way …that is awesome your son is coaching. What a good man. It takes a special person to deal with all the shit coaches have to deal with. It can be a very thankless job. It always amazes me they find willing coaches. Parents will turn on you on a dime and (as a teacher where I work) administration acts like they are doing you a favor when you coach.

    Coaching should be something put on a resume that gets respect.

  • 736. El Tigre  |  December 9, 2013 at 12:35 am

    “Five years into this man’s reign and we’re no longer pretending that he’s not talking about redistribution but they’re still lying about it (you can keep your healthcare) and the frog is about cooked.” -Muffy @ 682

    “The first thing a man will do for his ideals is lie.” –Joseph Schumpeter

    Being lied to does suck. Witnessing others that know better tolerating and defending it sucks worse.

  • 737. El Tigre  |  December 9, 2013 at 12:41 am

    DR, I saw this and couldn’t help but think about your enthusiasm for your 4-year-old’s wrestling match. My kids “sports” at 4 and 5 were more about hugs and encouragement than actual competition.

  • 738. dead rabbit  |  December 9, 2013 at 2:18 am

    Lol…I can’t tell if that commercial is taking itself serious or not

  • 739. El Tigre  |  December 9, 2013 at 8:25 am

    Another nauseating case in point.

    “No one guaranteed you that your premium wouldn’t increase. Premiums have been going up.”

    “The president guaranteed me I could keep my doctor,” said Wallace.

    “And if you want to, you can pay for it,” said Emanuel.

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obamacare-architect-if-you-your-doctor-you-can-pay-more_769688.html

    Oh really?

  • 740. poolman  |  December 9, 2013 at 10:38 am

  • 741. muffy  |  December 9, 2013 at 2:26 pm

    Re” “sink or swim” and this -

    “I agree that unconditional handouts don’t fight poverty. Any effective strategy provides short term relief to those in need ALONG WITH an opportunity to eliminate the need.”

    There’s reality and then there’s the rhetoric.

    I’m more than happy to see my/our tax dollars be applied toward lifting people out of poverty by providing for them skills and a job earning a middle class (or what once was the middle class) wage.

    Instead we see relief sold as temporary while in reality is permanent, ALONG WITH (caps yours, R) an endless campaign of false promises, lies, and vilification.

    “The fundamental question is what is government’s role in this?”

    The abstract answer is – whatever we say it is and not what government (“your fair share” ring any bells?) says it is.

    America was designed to be different. All progressives want to do is chaaaaayyyynge – but to what end? They like to snidely deride conservatives as stuck in the past but progressives are more stuck that anyone is and they are stuck inside their heads.

    Meantime Obama has “progressed” from POTUS as the smartest one in the room to a salesjob position amid whispers that he is out of the loop and in over his head.

  • 742. muffy  |  December 9, 2013 at 2:49 pm

    “Coaching should be something put on a resume that gets respect.”

    Good coaches/coaching fascinates me.

  • 743. muffy  |  December 9, 2013 at 2:53 pm

    “Witnessing others that know better tolerating and defending it sucks worse.”

    Yes it does. And I think I can beat that.

    The children see it all.

  • 744. Rutherford  |  December 9, 2013 at 6:10 pm

    “The children see it all.”

    But to a large degree the children think for themselves. I joke here about my conservative daughter but there is no doubt even at almost 10 she sees things from a conservative bent. She doesn’t simply parrot what she hears Mommy and Daddy say.

    Children may see it all but they are still our best hope.

  • 745. El Tigre  |  December 9, 2013 at 6:43 pm

    “Children may see it all but they are still our best hope.”

    . . . to pay for your schemes.

  • 746. Rutherford  |  December 9, 2013 at 7:05 pm

    “. . . to pay for your schemes.”

    Oh could you please stop being so fucking predictable? I swear I may start posting YOUR comments before you do just to save you the trouble.

  • 747. Rutherford  |  December 9, 2013 at 7:11 pm

    Rabbit the reason your boy’s wrestling exploits resonate with me is that two of my college roommates were wrestlers. One kinda mediocre who gave it up by junior year and the other who kicked ass. The funny thing was learning there was a legit sport called wrestling. All I had ever seen was the fake stuff on TV.

    By the way, the kickass one went on to coach a bit after graduation.

  • 748. El Tigre  |  December 9, 2013 at 7:33 pm

    “Oh could you please stop being so fucking predictable? I swear I may start posting YOUR comments before you do just to save you the trouble.”

    Funny, that’s how I feel about yours.

  • 749. muffy  |  December 9, 2013 at 8:00 pm

    “But to a large degree the children think for themselves.”

    Well I just think that’s an extraordinary statement.

    I don’t disagree that children think for themselves. But children are taught everything one way or another.

  • 750. El Tigre  |  December 9, 2013 at 9:06 pm

    R, you are quite the cliché generator. :lol:

  • 751. Rutherford  |  December 9, 2013 at 9:07 pm

    “I don’t disagree that children think for themselves. But children are taught everything one way or another.”

    If I could go back to school and write a thesis it might be on whether political disposition is nature or nurture or what the mix might be.

    My kids instincts go against much of what she hears her parents say. Could just be natural resistance against parents but I think it runs deeper than that.

    I can picture 6 year old Tex saying “hey why did that kid get free milk?” LOL

  • 752. muffy  |  December 9, 2013 at 9:27 pm

    I’m not talking about political disposition at all Rutherford.

    Your dig at Tex is so far off the mark I gotta call you on it even though I know you’re just playing. There isn’t even a kernel of truth in it.
    :lol: :lol: :lol: @ #750. I love that guy!

  • 753. muffy  |  December 9, 2013 at 9:34 pm

    Tigre did you see the other Vic videos? I’m dying over here!

    “HOWLONGDOIGOTTAWAIT?!”

  • 754. El Tigre  |  December 9, 2013 at 9:50 pm

    You sent me back. Those are pretty damn funny. He reminds me of a lot of guys I grew up around. :lol:

  • 755. Tex Taylor  |  December 10, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    Rabbit the reason your boy’s wrestling exploits resonate with me is that two of my college roommates were wrestlers.

    As I recall, one of your roommates was light as lambswool too. Tell us true, “R.” Did you “wrestle” around with him? :smile:

  • 756. Rutherford  |  December 10, 2013 at 7:31 pm

    “As I recall, one of your roommates was light as lambswool too. Tell us true, “R.” Did you “wrestle” around with him? :smile:

    Well now that you mention it, the gay roommate and the two wrestlers and I lived together for 3 years. The good wrestler (not gay) would attack the gay roommate and pin him down for fun. Now keep in mind the gay roommate was in denial at the time.

    Fast forward 30 years and I discover that my now out gay roommate quite enjoyed those tackles so many years earlier. :-)

    P.S. I was always viewed as too fragile to tackle and sadly that was true of the girls too. I would love to have been tackled by some of the girls I knew.

  • 757. Rutherford  |  December 10, 2013 at 7:34 pm

    So Tex since Muffy came to your defense, tell us. Back in the day were you a 6 year old Bill Buckley? :lol:

  • 758. parker  |  December 10, 2013 at 9:19 pm

    Bill Buckley was a real ripper. Every argument well thought-out and grounded in logic. It might surprise you to know that he proposed complete legalization of drugs in US many, many years before it became a popular position.

    Only saw him come unglued one time: Gore Vidal kept calling him a Nazi and he threatened to knock hell out of him.

    The old-time conservatives miss you, Bill. And they need you – so very, very much.

  • 759. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  December 10, 2013 at 11:01 pm

    Geebus. 750+ comments?

    Government Health Insurance is Dead, R. Your Chicago Messiah’s Mendacity, Lies, and Incompetence killed it.

  • 760. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  December 10, 2013 at 11:06 pm

  • 761. El Tigre  |  December 10, 2013 at 11:14 pm

    Racist.

  • 762. Tex Taylor  |  December 11, 2013 at 1:15 am

    Young Tex’s perhaps still favorite political and ideological statement – truer today than ever IMO:

    I’d rather entrust the government of the United States to the first 400 people listed in the Boston telephone directory than to the faculty of Harvard University. ~ Bill Buckley

    Throw in a former President of the Harvard Law Review…and Buckley was prescient.

  • 763. an800lbgorilla  |  December 11, 2013 at 8:01 am

    I can hear it now, “oh God, oh God…” Hold on, more like, “Wallah Akbar! Wallah Akbar!”…..

  • 764. an800lbgorilla  |  December 11, 2013 at 8:29 am

    So, you can’t keep your plan. You can’t keep your doctor. Now, its pretty clear you can’t keep your medicine either.

    Winning!……

    The out of pocket caps on consumer spending only apply to costs incurred on drugs that are included on a plan’s drug formulary. This is the list of medicines that the health plans have agreed to provide some coverage for.

    If the drug isn’t on this formulary list, then the patient could be responsible for its full cost (with little or no co-insurance to help offset that cost). Moreover, the money they spend won’t count against their deductibles or out of pocket limits ($12,700 for a family, $6,350 for an individual).

    These are the ways that Obamacare cheapens the health coverage in order to pay for all of its expensive mandates. Obamacare is a throwback to the old HMO model of the 1990s, which promised a broad package of coverage for primary care benefits like vaccines, and routine doctor visits. But to pay for these benefits, the Obamacare plans skimp on other things – principally the number of doctors you’ll have access to, and also, the number of costlier branded drugs that make it onto formularies.

  • 765. El Tigre  |  December 11, 2013 at 8:35 am

    You mean there’s no free lunch?

    Who knew? :roll:

  • 766. Tex Taylor  |  December 11, 2013 at 5:36 pm

    Rutherford…

    I’ve got a honking computer one year old and this thing is sucking its wind.

    You need to put up one of those Tex is a Cocksucker Posts with eight words as entry. Us mooches of your efforts can’t put up with this infinite thread nonsense much longer. Even Rabbit and Tigre as bartenders with Muffy serving has its limits.

    I can’t even Obama badger you at this speed.

  • 767. Noah  |  December 11, 2013 at 6:01 pm

  • 768. dead rabbit  |  December 11, 2013 at 10:14 pm

    I don’t know. That show expects a women with her kids to jump I’m the middle of some racial strife? Then has the nerve to put her on the spot because she didn’t speak up.

    People tend to pick up on “odd” and smartly stay the hell out of it until they get what’s going on. If the whole show isn’t fake, I bet people had a confused dog tilt to their heads as they subconsciously picked up on the fact that hair dresser was an actress.

  • 769. dead rabbit  |  December 11, 2013 at 11:33 pm

    Rutherford, remember the other day when you had a rare burst of energy after being spoon fed MSNBC talking points? As I recall, the failure of Obamacare was due to Republican stonewalling. Didn’t you point out Oregon, Democratic as all hell, as an example of success? Dude, that state run exchange, after spending 300 million, has signed up 44 people. 44 PEOPLE. LOL. What gives, brah? Awwww…..come on, you don’t want to talk Obamacare anymore? Just ignore the biggest elephant in the political room in our life time? No MSNBC talking points?

    Nobody will trust the Democratic Party ever again. Full blown socialism, dude. That’s your only angle. No more schemes. No more scams. You guys will have to unabashedly call on your system sucking welfare class to get you elected. Stay positive comrade. You have the numbers to pull it off.

    The stakes will be high though. For many, the social contract has been broken. You think we will ever see the streets run with blood?

    I think its possible. Problem is, I’ll be a old man only a few years from joining you in hell. How will I defend myself?

  • 770. poolman  |  December 11, 2013 at 11:55 pm

    Did you see this? Pretty much lays it out.

    The Affordable Care Act (ACA), also called “Obamacare,” may be the biggest insurance scam in history. The industries that profit from our current health care system wrote the legislation, heavily influenced the regulations and have received waivers exempting them from provisions in the law. This has all been done to protect and enhance their profits.

    How’s that for government by the corporation for the corporation?

    But I actually think there is a much grander hoax afloat…

    http://realcurrencies.wordpress.com/2013/12/11/rationalizing-usury-the-time-value-hoax/

  • 771. poolman  |  December 11, 2013 at 11:58 pm

    The first article I quote linked here

    http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/19692-obamacare-the-biggest-insurance-scam-in-history

  • 772. poolman  |  December 12, 2013 at 12:00 am

    Where’s the bartender? Service is a little sluggish in here.

  • 773. Rutherford  |  December 12, 2013 at 12:11 am

    New post when I come up for air.

    What to write about when the Dem agenda is such a failure? ;-)

  • 774. El Tigre  |  December 12, 2013 at 12:27 am

    Duh. What a success it really is.

  • 775. Alfie  |  December 12, 2013 at 11:03 am

    Well Rutherford you could entertain a “theme” post. My suggestion which you may be loathe to entertain perhaps because if you were interested you may want to do more research before penning it. On the other hand easily sourced and cited elements would stand well enough and serve as a threadfest that is a RL blog entry anyway.
    My suggestion is you could post something about the death of Nelson Mandela.
    Your paragraphs could explore not his life or death but the fleeting nature of any leader. Mandela for no good reason caused a South Carolina sheriff to make the news. That topic would be right up your alley. The sitting president of RSA Mr Zuma was booed at the memorial service in what some deem a sign of the troubles of the ANC & South Africa into the future. FWIW South Africa even in the pariah days was to be the jewel of sub Saharan Africa,it has failed. A great symbol of all this is the story of the idiot sign language interpreter. A look into the future? A look into the past for sure.

  • 776. Alfie  |  December 12, 2013 at 11:05 am

    You could also take a stand of sanity that the Ryan brokered budget plan w/ Murray isn’t a deal with the devil. I looked at some of the typical lefty rags (WaPo,HufPo) and was blown away by how silly you lefties are. I won’t get started on the nutters on the Right.

  • 777. Alfie  |  December 12, 2013 at 11:07 am

    @ pool man and James. The Ukrainian violence is indeed a planned tactical event by the pro-neo Soviet government of Kiev. Just saying.

  • 778. Alfie  |  December 12, 2013 at 11:10 am

    Last suggestion I promise. You could post on the irony that liberal progressives applauding Pope Frankies anti-capitalism rantings couldn’t take communion from him. Hell Frankie should find that ironic as well.

  • 779. James  |  December 12, 2013 at 12:04 pm

    Alfie, I agree to a point.

    However, the current demonstrations are a protest against current conditions. The government would use the demonstrations to justify a harsh crack down. Already, a representative has accused protest leaders of staging a coup.

    Anti -War leaders used the same tactic during the Democratic National Convention in Chicago when unbeknowst to the rank and file demonstrators, the leaders wanted violence.

  • 780. James  |  December 12, 2013 at 12:16 pm

    731, Rutherford, we looked it up because of our grand daughter. Each person can be one of 24 trillion genetic combinations because of our genetic past.

    Infants may remember more about their early days than previously thought through non verbal subconscious memories which influence their later behavior.

    They remember grand parents seen every day as separate individuals within a few weeks. If they see grand ma and grand pa once a week, they recognize them in six to nine months. Disposition may be in part, physically based.

    So, you may be on to something when you think behavior is deeper than just environment.

  • 781. James  |  December 12, 2013 at 12:19 pm

    One could later say of ObamaCare Obama “lied and people died.’

  • 782. an800lbgorilla  |  December 12, 2013 at 12:23 pm

    Breathtaking….

    Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R., Calif.) had a simple question Wednesday for three of the Obama administration’s top Afghanistan specialists: How many American troops have been killed in Afghanistan this year?

    None of the witnesses at the House Foreign Affairs Committee hearing on Afghanistan had an answer.

    How much is the U.S. spending in Afghanistan? Mr. Rohrabacher asked.

    No one could say.

    “We’re supposed to believe that you fellas have a plan that’s going to end up in a positive way in Afghanistan?” Mr. Rohrabacher asked. “Holy cow!”

    Mr. Rohrabacher’s incredulous questioning came during a two-hour hearing on U.S. policy in Afghanistan that revealed increasing congressional frustration with U.S. policy as the administration tries to rescue its plan to keep thousands of troops in Afghanistan through the end of this decade, if not beyond.

    Rep. Gerry Connolly (D., Va.) called the witnesses’ inability to rattle off the facts “a stunning development.”

    “How can you come to a congressional oversight hearing on this subject and not know” the answers? He asked. “Like that wouldn’t be a question the tip of one’s tongue.”

  • 783. Huck  |  December 12, 2013 at 2:24 pm

    “What to write about…”

    I’m betting it will be on the GOP “civil war” over the House budget deal.

  • 784. Rutherford  |  December 12, 2013 at 3:36 pm

    “I looked at some of the typical lefty rags (WaPo,HufPo) and was blown away by how silly you lefties are. I won’t get started on the nutters on the Right.”

    That’s why I like you Alfie. I can always count on the first sentence being followed by the second. Apparently even Boehner is fed up.

  • 785. Rutherford  |  December 12, 2013 at 6:03 pm

    “I’m betting it will be on the GOP “civil war” over the House budget deal.”

    Nope I’ve actually had a topic in mind past few days but it will bore most of you.

  • 786. Rutherford  |  December 12, 2013 at 6:04 pm

    At least it will be an easy loading thread to post on. :-)

  • 787. poolman  |  December 12, 2013 at 6:42 pm

    Be sure it has plenty of cowbell.

  • 788. Tex Taylor  |  December 12, 2013 at 6:54 pm

    I’m not sure I’m a big fan of Pope Francis…

    But my verdict is not certain.

  • 789. Rutherford  |  December 12, 2013 at 6:55 pm

    I know this doesn’t go far with you Gorilla but I’ve been maintaining the biggest problem with the Obama admin is incompetence not sinister purpose. If the account is accurate there is zero excuse to come to a hearing on Afghanistan and not have the basic facts in hand.

  • 790. parker  |  December 12, 2013 at 8:49 pm

    rutherford, I agree and disagree. I don’t think that Obama has set out to do evil, but by abandoning principle and the guidance of his country’s constitution and listening to the siren’s song of, “The end justifies the means” he has ended up creating evil, nonetheless.

    And tell me, when you create evil, does it matter to the victims of that evil whether you slid down that slippery slope with sinister purpose?

    No. Which is why there IS such a thing as principle.

  • 791. poolman  |  December 12, 2013 at 9:56 pm

    Yikes!! Big oops…

    (Reuters) – Fifteen people on their way to a wedding in Yemen were killed in an air strike after their party was mistaken for an al Qaeda convoy, local security officials said on Thursday.

    The officials did not identify the plane in the strike in central al-Bayda province, but tribal and local media sources said that it was a drone.

    “An air strike missed its target and hit a wedding car convoy, ten people were killed immediately and another five who were injured died after being admitted to the hospital,” one security official said.

    Five more people were injured, the officials said.

    The United States has stepped up drone strikes as part of a campaign against Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP), regarded by Washington as the most active wing of the militant network.

    Yemen, AQAP’s main stronghold, is among a handful of countries where the United States acknowledges using drones, although it does not comment on the practice.

    Human Rights Watch said in a detailed report in August that U.S. missile strikes, including armed drone attacks, have killed dozens of civilians in Yemen.

    Stabilizing the country, which is also struggling with southern separatists and northern rebels, is an international priority due to fears of disorder in a state that flanks top oil producer Saudi Arabia and major shipping lanes.

    On Monday, missiles fired from a U.S. drone killed at least three people travelling in a car in eastern Yemen.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/12/us-yemen-strike-idUSBRE9BB10O20131212?irpc=932

  • 792. parker  |  December 12, 2013 at 10:22 pm

    poolman, re: drone strikes on wedding party.

    it’s not wrong to call someone an Ugly American when that is exactly what they are.

  • 793. an800lbgorilla  |  December 13, 2013 at 8:50 am

    This Regime has repeatedly demonstrated that it is both incompetent and dishonest. This would be just one of many examples of its incompetence, along with the fact that Sebelius didn’t know how many regulations that Obamacare had created (10,535 pages or 30 times larger than the law itself), but the ACA, Fast & Furious, Benghazi, Solyndra, etc, etc, etc, demonstrates malice aforethought by the pResident and his henchmen. From HHS and the State Department obstructing Congressional investigations, to the IRS TARGETING the Regime’s political opponents, to rampant fraud as political contributors receive BILLION$ ion U.S. tax dollars: this is arguably the MOST CORRUPT ADMINISTION in U.S. HISTORY.

    Seems excessive, except that it isn’t. The daily deluge of unethical, extralegal actions on the part of this Regime is without a doubt, unequalled in U.S. history. We’ve been pointing this out to you for years, but your consistent knee-jerk reaction is to discount out of hand—without really doing ANY sort of fact checking—and then reblue with a healthy dose of MSDNC. If you took any of things we’ve ever pointed out, and changed OBAMA to BUSH, your reaction would have been diametrically different.

    There have been very, very few honest and unscripted views of this man. Don’t take my word for it, by any means:

    Obama’s Orwellian Image Control — NY Times, Santiago Lyon

    And when the Regime has done something, they’ve rarely been upfront and honest about it.

    Handshake No Accident: Obama Regime And Cuba Have Been Conducting Secret Talks For Past Six Months

    Except that the Obama Regime came out afterwards to Reuters that the Castro handshake was unplanned, no more than greetings and included no substantive discussions. Of course, the above demonstrates that the technical semantics of this betray any form of intellectual integrity. Why not be up front about what the Regime was doing? Well, when have they been up front about anything? Kind of like Iran…

    Or…

    The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services told contractors not to cooperate with Congress’s efforts to investigate work related to the Obamacare website, a top Republican lawmaker said.

    Imagine if Bush had done this. You’d be shitting kitties so fast, and in such large quantities, that Cruella de Ville could buy you off the phone bank…

    Or…

    Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius testified Wednesday before the House Energy and Commerce Committee that those who signed up for Obamacare are not actually covered until they pay the insurance company.

    Except that’s not what the Regime has been touting to the American people and they continue to swindle this snake oil. This was just another data point we pointed too, that those who’ve actually paid only constitute 5%-10% of the numbers the Imperial Presidency has been lying about. Why? Because the website doesn’t even have a payment capability built into it yet, which really speaks to the dogged determination of folks to find a way to pay for something without a functional payment mechanism. Just so we’re clear, that’s 18K-54K of fully signed up enrollees, versus the Regimes claim of some 360K. They need 7 million by March for the program to be functionally solvent.

    Nobody, and I mean nobody with intellectual honestly and integrity, believes ANYTHING from this Regime anymore. I sound like a broken record, because we all know you’ll never do it—at least publically—but you need to sit back, remove your ideological lens and examine this man by what he does, versus what he says. You’ll believe anything he says all day long, and twice on Sunday, but do you really support his actions? Is he really that disconnected from his people? Is he really that ignorant of what they are doing in his name, considering how well their actions have matched his candid and unscripted rhetoric? Are you really this deluded?

    Quinnipiac Poll Finds Obama’s Approval Rating Hitting New Low, 38%, Implodes Among Independents To Only 30%…

    Number of Americans Who Think Obama Is Not “Honest And Trustworthy” Hits Record High, 52%…

    Number of Americans Who Say Obama Has “Strong Leadership Qualities” Hits All-Time Low…

    AP Poll: 56% Say The Word “Honest” Does Not Describe Obama Well…

    NBC/WSJ Poll: Number of Americans Who Think Obamacare Is “Working Well” A Microscopic 4%…

    NBC/WSJ Poll Finds Obama’s Disapproval Rating At All-Time High, 54%…

    Number of Americans Who Say Obama “Cares About Their Needs And Problems” Hits Record Low…

    Bloomberg Poll: Two-Thirds Say American Dream Is Over…

    NBC Poll Finds Only 37% Think Obama Is “Honest And Straightforward”…

    Poll: Americans Prefer Old Healthcare Law Over Obamacare By 55% To 34% Margin…

    PolitiFact Names Obama’s “If You Like Your Health Care Plan, You Can Keep It” The 2013 “Lie of The Year”

  • 794. James  |  December 13, 2013 at 10:31 am

    Those polls and other information show that if Republicans can tread water and not make waves before the next election, they have a shot. If attention stays on Democratic incompetance and mendacity Republicans have a chance of winning the next election..

    Conservatives attacking each other in a circular firing squad draw attention from the from Democrats when they need to remain the center of attention.

  • 795. El Tigre  |  December 13, 2013 at 10:56 am

    Amen, James.

    The dems trying to offer solutions to the problems they created won’t cut it unless they’re able to divert attention.

  • 796. El Tigre  |  December 13, 2013 at 10:58 am

    R, in the spirit of the holidays, could you please get us a “Tex is a piece of shit” post?

    800 is slowin’ us bored MoFos, and Tex needs a dose.

  • 797. poolman  |  December 13, 2013 at 4:58 pm

    Rutherford, do you actually come up for air, or is it pumped in?
    Just curious, trying to calibrate my breath holding gauge.

  • 798. Rutherford  |  December 14, 2013 at 2:38 am

    G you oughta know the longer your rant the harder it is for me to keep up with you. I’m kinda dumb that way. But this nugget did stand out:

    “Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius testified Wednesday before the House Energy and Commerce Committee that those who signed up for Obamacare are not actually covered until they pay the insurance company. ”

    Huh? In what world does ANY insurance coverage start before paying for said coverage? When the Obamians say X number of people signed up I assume they mean chose a plan. Implicit to anyone but fantasy dwellers is the fact that they are not covered until they pay their first premium.

    Far more disturbing is the fact that the backend continues to have snags and insurance companies are not getting the downstream data.

    By the way kudos on the repeated use of the word “regime”. I’ve got bad news for you. To the extent that the Obama admin is a “regime” it is so as an evolutionary step started years ago by if not before George W. Bush. The regime cat is out of the bag. The Clinton or Christie or Paul or Cruz admin of 2017 will be a “regime”.

    How bout sharing your plan on getting that genie back in the bottle?

  • 799. Rutherford  |  December 14, 2013 at 2:40 am

    “Conservatives attacking each other in a circular firing squad draw attention from the from Democrats when they need to remain the center of attention.”

    A very politically shrewd statement. Another way of putting it is if your enemy is screwing the pooch, sit back and watch the implosion. Apologies for the mixed metaphor.

  • 800. Rutherford  |  December 14, 2013 at 2:42 am

    “Rutherford, do you actually come up for air, or is it pumped in?”

    Actually I have gills.

  • 801. poolman  |  December 14, 2013 at 2:47 am

    I knew something was fishy :grin:

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