The Soft Racism of MSNBC

MSNBC_logoBack in 2007, Fox News icon Bill O’Reilly made headlines when he dined at famous soul food restaurant Sylvia’s in New York City. Bill infamously remarked:

I couldn’t get over the fact that there was no difference between Sylvia’s restaurant and any other restaurant in New York City. I mean, it was exactly the same, even though it’s run by blacks, primarily black patronship. … There wasn’t one person in Sylvia’s who was screaming, ‘M-Fer, I want more iced tea.’ You know, I mean, everybody was — it was like going into an Italian restaurant in an all-white suburb in the sense of people were sitting there, and they were ordering and having fun. And there wasn’t any kind of craziness at all.  — O’Reilly surprised “there was no difference” between Harlem restaurant and other New York restaurants

If you think this diminished expectation of black behavior is limited to O’Reilly and his friends at Fox, you are mistaken. During the Inaugural parade last Monday, a camera was focused on the First Family as they watched the proceedings from their box seats. In the background we got to hear Chris Matthews and Joy Reid, two MSNBC talkers, wax on about what a fine decent family the Obama’s were.

Joy compared Michelle Obama to Diahann Carroll as the kind of black female role model her mother admired. When I first heard this my heart warmed. It brought back memories of “Julia”, the groundbreaking sitcom in which Carroll played a dignified professional black woman as opposed to the wise cracking maid that was the typical TV image of black women in older times. But my warm heart quickly froze over when I realized that was 40 years ago. Is Joy Reid really suggesting that we’ve made so little progress in 40 years that we need Michelle Obama to provide a good role model to young black girls? I can think of many others, including of different political stripes. Condoleezza Rice comes to mind. There is no shortage of fine female black role models.

Then, Chris Matthews, who suffers from the worst case of white guilt I have ever witnessed, talked about how decent and ordinary the family was. They do so much for race relations just by being there for all of us to see. What is this? Some Ripley’s Believe it or Not freak show? Come and see the black family that knows how to behave! What exactly were Chris and his panel expecting? Did they expect Michelle to be stinking up the White House with chitlins while Malia and Sasha blast “Fuck tha Police” out their bedroom windows?

I know the MSNBC gang have their heart in the right place. That doesn’t change the fact they suffer from the soft racism of low expectations. It’s been a good 30 years since “The Cosby Show” portrayed a black family that was not trapped in the ghetto, dodging bullets from gang-bangers. If after all this time we need the Obama’s to remind us that there are black families “just like the rest of us” then we are worse off as a nation than I had ever imagined.

Post script: I am glad to say that the Oxygen network has cancelled “All My Babies’ Mamas” before it ever got on the air. The reality show about a rapper and the ten mothers of his eleven children raised eyebrows and outraged enough folks to shame Oxygen into doing the right thing. That is one less show promoting the diminished expectations of black folks.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

Image by NBC [Public domain], via Wikimedia Commons

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371 thoughts on “The Soft Racism of MSNBC

  1. Dead Rabbit, there’s a hell of a lot wrong with both traditional and modern Black culture. But, that being said, you’re missing the point entirely, which I’m guessing that, if I saw you, would not come as a shock.

    Mr. Lawson has the right of it. Liberals are disgustingly racist. They just favor the paternal – and patronizing – flavor of it. In their minds Blacks are lesser, animalistic creatures who need looking after and to have excuses made for them. The thought that they’re sometimes just like everyone else is beyond them and the thought that even those who fit the preconceptions in many ways may not in others hasn’t even entered into their minds in dreams.

  2. “That is one less show promoting the diminished expectations of black folks.”

    80 percent of first born black kids are out of wedlock. I don’t know man.. Obama family is very unique and should, in fact, be celebrated as the oddities that they are.

    Give us back the chitlins and the most resilient family structure of all time ( until LBJ got ‘um).

  3. Don’t get me started DR, on what is wrong with chittlins. I told my husband if he wants some, he can cook them on the burner on the outside gas grill. Collard greens, however are exceptionally good, I am very happy I was introduced to them. Grits are great, I’ve only eaten them at Cracker Barrel though, my husband hates them.

  4. Can someone tell Hillary that blantant lies for the sake of political expediency is a big deal to at least a few of us? It does make a difference to me anyways.

  5. Ha ha. In all honesty, I tried to eat chitlins on more then one occasion and couldn’t with out gaging. I eat pickled herring by the pound, too.

  6. I recently read what chitlins are and…uhhhh…”eww” is about all I am going to say about that.

    My dad had a crush on Diahann Carroll, so I grew up hearing about “what a fox” she is.

    This post reminds me of Biden’s description of Obama as “articulate, bright and clean.”

    Condi kicks ass. I love hearing her speak and she’s easy on the eyes, too.

    That’s about all I have….

  7. My husband made them for New Year’s dinner the first year we were married, I knew ahead of time I wouldn’t eat them, as I refuse to eat any form of offal. A college girlfriend of mine was staying with us and she went crazy for them, she had seconds and thirds. That was a head shaker.

  8. Some of my best friends are black. The rest are Catholics and Jews.

    My father and his older siblings spent their childhoods in North Carolina, so they introduced the next generation to southern ethinc food. I don’t like chitlns either. I do like grits and collard greens.

    That southern food is superior to lutefisk or haggis. The Lutefisk smell will linger long after the heart burn does.

    4. Its a big deal to me too.

  9. I had grits once and liked them quite a bit. I have no idea what they are and don’t wanna…lol. My wife doesn’t like them, so I don’t get them at home.

    Never had collard greens but they make think of The Office episode “Diversity Day”

  10. Hominy grits. How many you want? Old joke… I love hominy but can’t stand grits. I love waffles but hate pancakes. I love raw, pickled, and fried okra, but can’t stand it boiled. Tastes are weird. I grew up eating seaweed and dried cuttlefish and still love it. Most folks just say eewwww.

    I saw this interview of 2 Obama supporters from Adam vs the Man yesterday. I think he got through to them. There is plenty of cultural divide in this post racial land.

  11. I almost forgot. I am watching the CSPAN link to the hearing. They have started at the beginning, so I still don’t know if I will get through it all before my wife returns from helping at the food pantry.

    I’m beating a dead horse, which has become a skeleton, but here it is again. Delurkergurl, and the Pfessor donated money to our food pantry, and you,Newt, offered to donate money to one of your charities in honor of ours. A toast to you three.

  12. Women to the front lines, special forces etc. I have no problem with it all. But, for the love of God, they must have to pass the same physical fitness requirements.

    Liberals would rather see the militery be put in direct danger if they can circle jerk about gender equality. Equality all the way up to say, a physical fitness test deemed necessary for troops to handle the rigor of a combat zone. Then and only then they become dainty damsels again…..after their special treatment they can file back into the height line and pretend they’re tough as the guys again.

  13. Our Korean daughter in law taught me to like seaweed. They send me a package for Christmas , and we take some home from California during each visit.Some of the other dishes have raw fish. I have to choke them down.

  14. How physically fit does one have to be to operate a drone? I think women moreso have to be conditioned to get past their mothering instinct.

  15. Our niece was a dainty damsel and an adorable air head. She was so attractive that Robin Williams put her in part of his show and kissed her on stage in Afghanistan.
    She is now a tech sgt who repairs Black Hawk helicopters.

    She was in combat during the search for Bin Ladin. Our niece was a helicopter gunner every two weeks because the Army didn’t have enough troops. Her crew was nearly shot down several times.

    She looks the same, but she is no longer the dainty damsel she once was. She is tough and inner directed.

  16. So, I didn’t have time today to devote to listening the the long hours of Q&A with Hillary on Benghazi. But I was just reading about it on CNN.com and saw this…

    “We were misled that there were supposedly protests and something sprang out of that, an assault sprang out of that and that was easily ascertained that that was not the fact,” Johnson said, adding that “the American people could have known that within days.”

    Shouting and gesturing with her arms in frustration, Clinton shot back: “With all due respect, the fact is we had four dead Americans. Was it because of a protest or was it because of guys out for a walk one night decided they’d go kill some Americans?”

    Her fists shaking, she continued: “What difference, at this point, does it make? It is our job to figure out what happened and do everything we can to prevent it from ever happening again, senator.”

    There might be more context at the front and back ends of that exchange, but the question that springs to my mind when reading that is….

    If it doesn’t matter how they were killed, then why were we lied to about it?

    I am sick of this administration using ignorance as an excuse for its failures.

  17. And that is actually a rhetorical question, above. I know why we were lied to about it. Because the last 3 words that the Obama administration wanted to utter less than 2 months from the election were “Al Qaeda attack”

  18. Huck, keep things in perspective, Hillary testified for 7 1/2 hours today, not one bead of sweat. And yes, you are right there was more to that exchange, it was very clear that she meant, the how was less important at the time, while the two injured persons were evacuated than it was to get them to Germany for treatment. Also she would have been entirely out of order to question them before the FBI.
    It might be of interest to you that folks on the left are actually thanking the GOP for having these hearings. She handled herself and hearing so well, her detractors looked small. Hillary looked Presidential!

  19. Since presidential now means being able to lie with authority and a smile, I agree Newt. Hillary looks VERY presidential.

  20. “…it was very clear that she meant, the how was less important at the time…”

    Her tense suggests otherwise.

    She did not say “what difference DID it make?”

    We were being told 5 days later that is was protests over a video. That seems pretty clearly to me to be the context of the question that sparks her response. We were lied to for days…not just the first few hours.

    So the idea that we were told what we were told was because they just didn’t have enough time to question people in the first hours doesn’t sell.

    I much preferred reading this response from her…

    “At one point, Clinton attempted to wrap up the issue, saying: “If you wish to fault the administration, it’s that we didn’t have a clear picture, and we probably didn’t do as clear a job explaining that we did not have a clear picture, until days later, creating what I think are legitimate questions.””

    …but to respond with what seems to be the equivalent of “they were killed, who cares how?” is unacceptable.

  21. “It might be of interest to you that folks on the left are actually thanking the GOP for having these hearings. She handled herself and hearing so well, her detractors looked small. Hillary looked Presidential!”

    I am not personally concerned whether it made her look good or bad. I am just glad to see someone finally asking the questions that the media should have been asking this whole time. As even she pointed out…they are legitimate questions that deserve answers.

  22. Jay Carney doesn’t seem to think she was talking about the first hours, either.

    “White House press secretary Jay Carney on Wednesday defended Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s assertion that the administration’s initial claims the Benghazi attack was the result of a violent protest — rather than terrorism — made no “difference” in the big picture of the tragedy.

    Carney, speaking to reporters at the White House daily briefing, said Clinton was referring to “an obvious political obsession over a series of talking points that again bears no relevance on the central issues” around the Sept. 11, 2012, attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya.”

    Yeah…there is just so much more to be concerned about than obsessing over who actually killed our people and why they actually did it and why we were lied to about it for days.

  23. How come Obama said it was terrorism in the Rose Garden the day after it happened, but now we are being told that 5 days later we were told it was a protest over a video because they didn’t yet know it was terrorism? Obama seemed to know pretty early what it was. He even reminded Mitt Romney of that. So what changed between him telling us the truth and then telling us lies?

    And if who killed our people and why they killed them is not a “central issue” to what happened, then what exactly are the central issues?

    This BS isn’t selling.

  24. “the how was less important at the time, while the two injured persons were evacuated than it was to get them to Germany for treatment. ”
    -Newt

    Are you kidding me? Is there one objective bone in your body?

    The HOW was the only thing the administration publically cared about the days following the attack.

    Dude. Endless speeches about the movie! Rice running like a chicken with her head cut off on every Sunday show that will have her!

    And guess what? The “How” was a lie!

    And good ol’ Newt. Spewing garbage about how “cool” Clinton was. More fan girl politics out of you. Never mind the fact she threw a tantrum and cried, the point is she feels its no big deal that Americans were clearly misled.

    Do you realize there was NO DEMONSTRATION.

    This wasn’t a case of the administration being mum. They fabricated an entire narrative almost instantly.

    If the HOW didn’t matter, why did the HOW matter so much?

    You are too twisted to even converse with. I wish someone from the left would call you out for who you are. You will defend EVERYTHING this administration does.

    Robot.

  25. Huck….it would be funny if it wasn’t about something so fucked up.

    I get that Newt has major idealogical differences from me. But, when someone is carrying partisan water to such an extent that I can’t even any sembelence of a give and take debate….why bother.

    I think she really believes that she is a part of this noble and perfect cause capable of no wrong. Can you imagine being in her cult?

  26. “Since presidential now means being able to lie with authority and a smile, I agree Newt. Hillary looks VERY presidential.”

    I liked that one.

  27. How long are you guys going to miss the big picture and obsess about what Ambassador Rice said on Sunday news shows? Boring!

  28. “If the HOW didn’t matter, why did the HOW matter so much?”

    There it is, right there.

    That Obama switched stories from the truth to a lie shows how much the HOW did matter.

    I so wish Mitt had been quicker on his feet and asked Obama and Candy Crowley why we were told about a video 5 days later if Obama knew it was terrorism the next day.

  29. “How long are you guys going to miss the big picture and obsess about what Ambassador Rice said on Sunday news shows? Boring!”

    What is the big picture?

    I keep hearing about this “big picture” and the “central issue” but nobody wants to define either.

  30. If it makes you feel any better, Newt, we can switch from Rice’s Sunday talk show lies to Obama’s lies about it at the UN or the lies he and Hillary told the families while they were speaking in the hanger with those flag-draped coffins she cried about.

  31. Newt, you are bored with the fact the administration lied to America. I’m not. Fucking disgusts me. Its an example of everything I hate about politics. Makes me furious they blamed the 1st amendment too. They blamed America for the attack. We did not deserve the endless lectures about how we need to watch what we say more closely.

    You know, it may surprise you to know that I don’t feel Clinton should be fired over the breech in security.

    I would have respected Obama if he said nothing about it other then its an ongoing investigation. A month later admit mistakes were made and make it clear those involved will pay, big time. Shit happens in the middle east. The ambassador probably should have known better himself.

  32. If we want to talk about big pictures…how about the big picture regarding the intelligence excuses?

    For days (supposedly) nobody knew what was going on because this agency didn’t talk to that agency and this group redacted that information and that agency put out those talking points and blah blah blah.

    Remember when the big lesson from 9/11 is that our agencies need to coordinate information? Here we are 11 years later and have forgotten all about that, to the extent that it provides acceptable political cover for bullshit.

    And when we ask about it, we’re obsessing.

  33. Man…..I can’t believe Obama had the audacity to stand in front of the UN and finger wag America over the attack.

    Pisses me off…..not in some partisan way. Just plain old pisses me off as an American and a man.

    Fuck off, Obama. The exercise of free speech had NOTHING to do with it. And even if it did….who cares. We can say anything we want. Pfessor and Rutherford love mocking religion. They are sometimes assholes about it. But they are not yelling fire in a movie theatre.

  34. “Makes me furious they blamed the 1st amendment too. They blamed America for the attack. We did not deserve the endless lectures about how we need to watch what we say more closely.”

    I got into it with some of my Arab friends (Muslim and Christian, both), trying to convey to them that the only speech that ever needs to be protected is the speech that offends us. That the right to say what we want about people, especially public figures, be it the president or a religious figure, is what freedom of speech is all about.

    I don’t know if it is a result of the culture, or the years of government oppression, or both, or what, but the idea just seemed so alien to them. One of them has since completed his naturalization process and he sure gets it now. He blasts Morsi and Obama to no end on his Facebook. It cracks me up.

  35. I am not sure if I know the PC or non-idiot sounding way to say this, so I am just going to go for it, with the preface that I do not intend to offend anyone.

    Rutherford, is the ability to detect these “dog-whistle” or “soft racist” things a part of being black?

    I am in no way a perfect man, but I do think that I have acceptance of others as being equal to me. I would not regard myself as a bigot or racist, but then, maybe bigots and racists don’t either. I don’t know.

    But my question, I guess, is why can you see what MSNBC did as being wrong, while when I read your post about what they said, I did not see anything wrong with it?

    Is it just as simple as a difference of perspective?

  36. What’s wrong with chitlins, Tom? Nothing wrong with traditional black culture….jerk.

    Leave it to my favorite contrarian to pull the exact wrong message out of the post. I think you just like to bust chops Rabbit.

    Huck’s comment about Biden captured the gist of my post. When certain blacks are highlighted as “exceptional” it sometimes provides a window into the thought process of what the person really thinks of blacks in general.

  37. This is what happens when disingenuous people speak on things they do not actually believe so they try and say what they think people want to hear. Problem is none of them are smart enough to pull it off so they make blunder after blunder.

  38. “When certain blacks are highlighted as “exceptional” it sometimes provides a window into the thought process of what the person really thinks of blacks in general.”

    Ok, well I guess if I had waited 5 minutes, my #46 would have been answered without having to ask it.

  39. Once again I’ve got a lot of comments to catch up on and I’m going to bed. But since chitlins became a major topic in the early set of comments, let me say this:

    First, I will dare to say what Huck could not — they are (clean) pig intestines.

    I only recall my mother cooking them once and they stunk up the entire apartment. I was a child so I don’t remember if I ate them or not. I was a very picky eater as a kid so I’m guessing I didn’t try them. But damn I do remember that smell.

    I have eaten and quite enjoyed collared greens. I’ve also enjoyed hominy grits.

    I don’t recall if my uncle used to eat pigs feet or ham hocks but I know whatever it was, at every family dinner, my grandmother would give him his own bowl of it.

    The last time I ate pig was a few weeks ago — a McRib sandwich. Damn that was good! :-)

  40. Huck, please note the “sometimes” in 47. This is far from an exact science. I’m not suggesting the Obama’s aren’t a good role model (for everyone). I’m just suggesting that some folks doth protest too much. Chris Matthews has a history of being so hypersensitive about race and dog whistles that I think he’s trying to do some sort of penance either for his own past transgressions or for what he perceives as historic transgressions.

    There is a difference between talking about what a wholesome family someone has and suggesting that this wholesomeness should somehow change other folks minds about black families.

    I honestly don’t recall TV personalities giving major tributes to the Carters or Clintons (two families with children) the way they bloviated on Monday about the Obamas.

  41. Noah comes close to the truth in 48 (imagine that) although unlike Noah I don’t assign negative motives to Matthews etal. Hell, I laughed the first time I heard O’Reilly’s comment. He meant no harm either.

    There is a difference between ignorance and evil.

  42. Jonolan, welcome to the blog. Your comment got caught in my SPAM filter so my apologies for taking so long to get you “approved”. Future comments if any will automatically show up.

    Gang, since Jo came in at comment 2, all references to comments after that will be one off. My apologies … can’t be helped.

    Jo, I’m not sure I buy fully into your assessment since I think you find more malice behind some liberals than is warranted. But I do agree talk like what I heard on Monday does come off very condescending and patronizing. And Joy Reid is black and fully participated in it. Boggles the mind.

  43. Last time one of your own thought they had ‘the smoking gun,’ he hadn’t read the full transcript either. As in Obama says, please “proceed,” talk about a jaw dropping. But you guys just go with what you got, I personally don’t care if you sound like mean spirited goofballs.

  44. #39 See there again, you didn’t watch the testimony or read the transcript, if you had you would have the answer to your question. Might as well talk to turnips.

  45. In 1 post you are telling us that she couldn’t question them because they were on the way to Germany and the FBI hadn’t talked to them…which is a small picture…and now you are telling us its all about a big picture that I have asked you to identify 3 times now, and you won’t.

    You say you might as well talk to turnips…I say we may as well be talking to the Obama administration. Because we can’t get any straight answers out of it, either.

  46. I watched as much of the testimony as I was able given my wife’s needing the computer. Hillary aquitted herself rather well, in my opinion, but “What does it matter?” was a disgusting way to avoiding explaining the defining mystery surrounding this sorry affair. What does it matter now? We are trying our best to understand why it happened and to see that it doesn’t happen again.Well and good, but why did you not tell us what you knew in the beginning as you did after the Algerian terrorist attack?”Why did you repeat a lie you knew was untrue? Why did the Daily Telegraph and the Libyans know more than you 72 hours after the fact?
    What does it matter?

    Hillary invoked four dead Americans to defend herself from a question she wouldn’t or couldn’t answer. She could (would) not tell us if the attack was spontaneous, pre-planned, or a combination. She failed to explain the video and why the only person to be punished so far is the creator of the video.

    The administration lied to perpetuate false security about our enemies and said they were virtually defeated after Obama “killed “Bin Ladin. Hillary’s only defense was “What does it matter now?”

    Hillary has run the State Department long enough to create a coherent chain of command, and communication system. Four men died and others were wounded because of serious judgement failures and lies.

    Hillary and Obama lied to win an election. At least that is the obvious conclusion though darker forces lurk below the surface. It all most be idle speculation because the administration hides the truth and most of the media doesn’t care.

    Hillary was only trying to protect herself. One can’t really blame her for instincts of self -preservation. She performed well enough that I agree with Newt. Democrats might thank Republicans for holding the hearings, and for the sound bytes Johnson’s, McCain’s and Rand’s attacks gave her. From what I have seen, this will not hurt Ms.Clinton’s chances of running for president unless her age and health intervene.

    Rep Jeff Duncan told Hillary who was in charge of Ambassador Stevens and the others who died. “Madam Secretary, you let the consulate become a death trap.” In spite of that, Hillary is not the object of my disgust,.

    Someone complained that he wagged his finger at Hillary. A Democratic caller to CNN was outraged by the way McCain and Paul treated Hillary. A Republican woman said she was ashamed those two men were in the party. People like them made a decision during the election as they asked themselves “What does it matter?” They either didn’t know or they didn’t care.

    That is the big picture.

  47. The CELL PHONE company is the one OFFERING a FREE PHONE and 250 MINUTES to get you to sign up with them not the Life Line program. There is ONLY ONE phone to household or Economic Unit ie group of people living together and sharing expenses and a criminal offense to give false information. These phones are still under the Life Line program which is subsidized not free. You knew this, yes? But that is not the point you wish to make…is it!

    Your brother is black?? And a LIBERAL????!!!!!! I did not know this!

    Thanks for the laugh…foah!

    http://www.fcc.gov/guides/lifeline-and-link-affordable-telephone-service-income-eligible-consumers

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/09/27/1137177/-How-To-Get-Your-FREE-Obama-Phone-Video#

    money.cnn.com/2012/10/26/technology/…free-phones/index.html

  48. I am enlightened about this, and I have found transcripts and videos. Most people don’t care.

    Anyone who doesn’t know how I entertwine old memories into the modern world hasn’t been paying attenion. I am like the ancient mariner carrying a endless repeating loup and inflicting my reactions on innocents who don’t deserve to suffer through yet another story.

    I once saved myself by overthinking and using rage as a weapon. Anger is merely a tool to use and put aside. The Bengazi affair has made me unchararistically more than momentarily angry, I disengage when it happens, and it is what I am doing now. A band of miscreants will not bring me down. I am through with national politics for awhile, and while I Ilke everyone who posts here for various reasons, you don’t need me angry .I need a vacation from politics.

    As Kevin Rudolf and Lil Wayne sang “But it broke his heart so he stuck his middle finger to the world.”

    .Mabey I will return in a few days.

  49. “Enlighten yourself! We have freedom of the press, I am sure you can find a transcript or video.”

    This tells me that you do not know what the so-called “big picture” is and are just parroting talking points.

    I am well aware of what the big picture is. The big picture is that we knew the day after it happened that it was a terrorist attack, as displayed by Barack Obama’s statements in the Rose Garden. Then someone within the Obama campaign decided that stressing that point so close to the election might not be a good thing. The events at other embassies because of the video gave the perfect cover story for the attack in Benghazi, and the Obama Administration ran with it for a week, or more.

    Agencies didn’t properly communicate before, during, and after this attack. Information was redacted and lies the the American people were put in it its place. A US diplomat (Rice), who should have been representing the executive, was instead representing an intelligence agency. We have learned nothing from 9/11.

    What does it matter? It matters because we want to at least have the illusion that we can trust what our government tells us when it has to do with terrorist attacks and our safety. We want to at least have the illusion that our government knows what the hell is going on when we have our people getting killed. It matters because we trust the government to keep us safe, and if we can’t trust it, then who can we trust? And the events before, during, and after Benghazi broke that trust. It might not be a big deal to you and Hillary, but to some of us it is a very big deal.

    That is the big picture. And I don’t need to read through 7.5 hours of transcripts to figure it out.

  50. Rutherford, I like your post and agree the “white guilt” still exists and for certain liberal and conservative generations will always exist. I do believe that the Obamas learned the etiquette of being black in a white society long before being elected president ;-)

    I hate to spoil your bubble but that McRib is pretty close to chitlins and tripe reconstructed to look like a rib. Interesting that in this country chitlins (intestines)are part of the black culture whereas tripe (stomach) in France is a delicacy. Collard greens and grits are Southern but many attributed them to black culture. Hominy, basically the same as grits in the North is not attributed to black culture.

    The food discussion just reinforced the points you made in your post.

  51. I am actually with DR on this. I don’t want Hillary’s head over Benghazi. And I am not trying to make Obama look bad. He does a fine job of that all on his own. I do think whoever that report found screwed up should lose their job (and not just be reassigned). Not because they should be punished, but because they seem to be incapable of doing an important job where lives are at stake.

    I just want answers. The press didn’t ask enough of them. The questions that the press did ask haven’t been answered. That is what these hearings are all about.

    How can we learn from our mistakes if we don’t recognize and air them?

    It matters.

  52. As far as I’m concerned the administration lied about Benghazi. They may have had their reasons but it still boils down to a lie. I still think it was a CIA operation gone bad and an administration CYA to not acknowledge Stevens was part of the CIA operation. Benghazi was not considered a consulate.

  53. Perhaps I am being naive, but I don’t believe it was a CIA operation. I think it was just a rush to put a diplomatic presence in Libya, because it shows we recognize the legitimacy of a particular government. And since we had a hand in toppling the one that it replaced, rushing to legitimize it up seems to square.

    But I could certainly be wrong.

  54. We want to at least have the illusion that our government knows what the hell is going on when we have our people getting killed.

    Yes we do, and it is an illusion, one that is rapidly fading.

    It matters because we trust the government to keep us safe, and if we can’t trust it, then who can we trust?

    That has probably been our greatest downfall. Why should we trust government? A clear understanding of history proves government hasn’t earned the right of our trust. Our founders understood government was in fact not to be trusted.

    Trust in yourself, verify all others.

  55. “and 250 MINUTES to get you to sign up with them not the Life Line program”

    Lurk, you are one stupid @#$%. Real your own links…phone company pays for it? Really? First line reads… “Lifeline is a government benefit program”

    “These phones are still under the Life Line program which is subsidized not free.”

    How long can I have Assurance Wireless?
    1) When you sign your Assurance Wireless application, you are confirming that you qualify for Assurance Wireless, a federal Lifeline Assistance program, based on government program participation or income eligibility. You are also confirming that you are the head of household and that your household receives only one lifeline discount (wireless or landline).

    1) You must to make at least one call every 60 days to continuie receiving your free minutes each month.

    But I thought you said they were not free Lurk? I thought you said it was only when you signed up?

    “and a criminal offense to give false information.”

    This one made me laugh, how naive. That is what happens on the black market dear. Criminals do criminal things. lmao.

  56. I find it more than a little ironic that these Libs have no problem with Oblama and Hillery lying to us but stroked out over Bush and WMD’s. Gotta love selective ethics.

  57. There were some good suggestions that came out of yesterday’s hearings from both Secretary of State Clinton and a couple of Republican Congressmen, with military backgrounds. And an agreement that those two Representatives would present their suggestions to the State Department. Some of you might not be aware, that much of what is known about Benghazi is still classified, Hillary throughout the hearing did refer the committee members to refer to their classified documents. The FBI investigation is still not complete, but even when it is, we will not be told everything.
    Rutherford, I have given some thought to your question of soft racism? I don’t think I would necessarily label it as soft racism, but more an insecurity of how to approach the differences between white culture and black culture. For me, I think it is silly and people should just come out with it and discuss differences, but good manners prevent us from asking certain details, unless we are really good friends. When your best friend, your spouse, is from a different ‘race,’ it can be quite interesting.

  58. This is how I feel about it, too. Especially as I am very close to someone who has been in the same position as the victims of Benghazi, years spent in such hostile places as Afghanistan, Iraq, and Yemen. And you think Benghazi upsets you?

  59. I think I reached a new low on my Internet radio show today. With no co-host and time to kill, I ended the show by reciting the lyrics to “Werewolves of London” (it’s Warren Zevon’s birthday today). The one guy in the show chat room walked out in the middle of it. LOL kinda like having your audience walk out on you while you’re on stage. :lol:

  60. Ok this reaches a historic all time level of self aggrandizement and self preoccupation.

    Obama Proclaims His Inauguration Day A National Holiday
    By Cindi on Jan 22, 2013 in Politics

    It appears as though there is a new National Holiday- “National Day of Hope and Resolve”. This is the White House Release on Obama’s Proclamation for yesterday, the day of his second inauguration. The pomp and circumstance isn’t enough, he needs to remind the entire country that it’s ALL about him.

    http://www.conservativedailynews.com/2013/01/obama-proclaims-his-inauguration-day-a-national-holiday/

    Dam Libs, you sure know how to pick them.

  61. Obamalogic.

    Supports civilian uprisings in Libya, Syria, and Egypt.

    Asks why any civilian would need an “assault” rifle.

  62. There is nothing wrong with a cover story for a C.I.A. operation gone sour. Lie why the ambassador was there.

    But don’t you dare stand up in front of the UN and blame America for what happened. And don’t lie about who attacked us, going as far as saying Al Queda is practically history in the region on the eve of a new front opening up in the Saheel. Sorry about my spelling of late.

    Disgusting.

    Oh….yeah…its the big picture. Newt knows a guy who was in the shit maaaaaan. She knows the big picture maaaaan. Its so big she can’t tell us.

  63. Poolman, this from Wikipedia:

    A proponent of psychic warfare, Stubblebine was involved in a U.S. Military project to create “a breed of ‘super soldier'” who would “have the ability to become invisible at will and to walk through walls”. Stubblebine reportedly attempted to walk through walls himself, without success.

    In other words, despite his impressive credentials, he’s a wackjob.

  64. Obamalogic.

    Supports civilian uprisings in Libya, Syria, and Egypt.

    Asks why any civilian would need an “assault” rifle.

    Nice try.
    Let’s try a little Sesame Street:

    Libya, Syria, Egypt, The United States of America

    One of these things is NOT like the others.

    If you’re having trouble with the answer Noah, I’ll go get Big Bird to explain it to ya.

  65. The Mark Fiore video is another classic. People got way too upset by the NRA ad. It was STUPID and laughable. If I didn’t know better I would have thought it was from an SNL sketch.

    My wife made the point that the ad isn’t even completely accurate. The kids attend a Quaker school where guns are not allowed. Any security they have say bye bye to them at the front of the school. How they are protected from threats inside the school, I don’t know.

  66. Why don’t you have Big Bird explain it to me, too, Rutherford. I thought Noah’s point made perfect sense to me.

    I’m no Poolman, but I’m not blind either. The technological tools are advancing rapidly to make the world Big Brother’s back yard paradise. The conditions are becoming oh so ripe. I have noticed before that you are ignorant on how totalitarian regimes consolidate power. You think its this massive conventional war against the people. Instead its your brainwashed neighbor that does the most damage. Being armed is a great deterrent for that kind of stuff.

  67. “Stubblebine reportedly attempted to walk through walls himself, without success”

    LOL. Yeah…Poolman loves to find crazy veterans.

  68. I was looking at the list of guns Fienstien wants to ban. I’m no gun expert, but some of them are laughable. Gimmick 12 gauge shot guns. I have a Winchester Speed Pump 12 gauge that is probably 10 times faster and reliable then some of these revolver shot guns she inexplicably wants to ban. Odd stuff.

  69. In other words, despite his impressive credentials, he’s a wackjob.

    Right. Let me explain something I shouldn’t have to to you about Wikipedia. It is a reference that is often accurate and truthful regarding most non controversial and non status quo threatening topics. It is one stop, not a destination, in the ongoing search for accuracy and truth.

    But let’s just go where you went and find the reference for Stubblebine’s supposed wackjobiness. The Wikipedia page references this article:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1222369/Can-kill-goat-staring-eyes-Thats-plot-Hollywood-film-U-S-army-experiment.html#ixzz0Wav4lZ5T

    The intelligence community actually did this research. And it is actually still doing this type of research. Crazy? Maybe, but your and my tax dollars are being spent on it. Can folks actually walk through walls? There are plenty in the scientific community that think it may be possible. Albert Einstein believed time travel is possible. Wackjobby enough for you?

    Beam me up, Scotty. There is no intelligent life down here.

  70. So the Big Picture has gone from “read about it in the free press we have” to “there is a lot of classified information, so we won’t be told everything.”

    Got it.

  71. Or..we spouted rhetoric we heard somewhere else that we didn’t fully understand and when called on it had to choose the better part of valor and retreat. Kinda like Lurk and R did. None could fess up they were wrong. Its a Liberal thing.

  72. The big picture: Obama is king, so get over it. The end justifies the means, so ride it out and keep a tight lip. Trust him.

  73. “Four F-16 fighter jets left the U.S. this morning, bound for Egypt as part of a foreign aid package…”

    My guess is that the jihadis in the Sinai have more to worry about with those jets than the Israelis do.

  74. Grits are like lefsa, only as good as what you put on them. Lutefisk is nasty no matter what you put on it. I’d rather eat one of Rabbit’s tube socks … after a double-header. :)

    Don’t leave James.

    I think Benghazi is like Abu-Gr. Underlings will be blamed and sacrificed and we’ll never know the full story because the more embarrassing aspects of it can be hidden under the cloak of classified information. My guess is, we relied too heavily on the fledgling Libyan government for security, and we were too slow to decide we were on or own. As for a cover-up, if this is a cover-up its a pretty lousy one.

  75. I pretty much agree with Thor’s analysis. The dumb thing about the “cover up” is that hindsight proved no defense of a few poll points was needed. Silly insecure liars didn’t realize that Americans don’t give much of a shit about the middle east any more and the press, outside of Fox, would never ask tough questions.

    I can’t help but repeating this is. How dare they blame the liberties of the 1st amendment. To call everyone of us out like that, on a world stage, is disgusting.

  76. Huck, come on now, let’s just give the bank robbers the combination to the safe. The press can only print what they know/been told. After the FBI completes their investigation, we will learn more, everything? No, but enough no doubt, that you will be shaking in your boots, as you should. We live in a dangerous world, there are bad guys, who wish us harm. As both former President George W. Bush and Secretary of State Clinton have told us, we only hear about the ones that go wrong and we never hear about the times when our agencies get it right, which are far more numerous. Things are classified not because of cover ups, but because they endanger our people and our country if they were leaked. Whatever you know, is also known by our enemies around the world. Scary!

  77. Abu-gr was much worse by the way. In that case we were breaking Geneva conventions and we were the bad guys. In Benghazi we momentarily lost our global street smarts. That shit can happen and we should be honest about it and move on.

    Clinton disgusted me with her flippant, dismissive response on why us serfs should accept being lied to, even blamed, for what happened. Unfortunatly, the MSNBC crowd is high fiving one another over it. Sucks everything is so partisan.

  78. I am well aware of why things get classified, Newt.

    I am mocking you.

    That I have to actually point that out is as sad as it is funny.

  79. I think all of us, except poolman, appreciate the fact that somethings are classified and that we have men and women willing to risk their lives to gather information. Thanks for the comment.

  80. Events in Benghazi being classified has nothing to do with the lies we were told. A cover story serves to end discussion, not spark philosophical ones about free speech.

    The first two years I was in the Navy my entire job was classified. I couldn’t tell anyone what I did. We tracked submarines but I had to simple say we did Oceanic research. Cover stories are supposed to bore people to death. They don’t contain lectures about responsibility directed at the American people as a whole.

  81. “Clinton disgusted me with her flippant, dismissive response on why us serfs should accept being lied to, even blamed, for what happened.”

    It’s all because we don’t have access to the classified Big Picture like some around here do, DR. We need to stop obsessing about that and move beyond these bumps in the road.

  82. Seriously Newt…..what is the big picture? This is why its so hard to respect you. You have always been a link machine.

    Speak up, girl!

    We don’t need anything from the Democratic Underground. This isn’t about cheer leading for your heroes or talking about a rhetorical “performance” of so and so. That’s all you really ever add to this forum.

    Your response to our criticisms, points that I believe are at least fair, has ranged from you are “bored” to a “big picture” you refuse to elaborate on (Google it, you say)…or the direct opposite…..it’s all classified and we don’t understand this clandestine world like you do thanks to your close friends.

    I’m not asking for a foreign policy treatise. It doesn’t have to be perfect. But can you at least tease us that you have thought about any of this with your own mind?

    You are making a fool of yourself again.

  83. Now why would I even bother when Hillary discredited every single one of your talking points of the last few weeks. I am not that generous with my time.

  84. Gun control confusion at Cabela’s:

    Gun Control. It already has started at Cabela’s

    There was a bit of confusion at the Cabela’s Sporting Goods store this morning.

    When I was ready to pay for my purchases of gun powder and bullets the
    cashier said:

    “Strip down, facing me.”

    Making a mental note to complain to the NRA about the gun control whackos running amok, I did just as she had instructed.

    When the hysterical shrieking and alarms finally subsided, I found out that she was referring to my credit card.

    I have been asked to shop elsewhere in the future.

    They need to make their instructions to us seniors a little clearer!

  85. Newt, you are a coward plain and simple. Newts kind has one mission, not to be proven wrong. They will grasp at any straw to avoid having to admit their Messiah did wrong. They are blind cool-aid drinking worshipers that will do anything, say anything, to protect the first black President. Per this post, they are serving a greater good by giving the black man a pass to alleviate their own guilt. In my mind, if you have to give someone special consideration, be it good or bad, its still racism.

  86. Going to take a step back and apologize for being harsh Newt.

    I perceive you and R more than most on here being inconsistent at best, dishonest at worst when you put forth your arguments, what you hold others accountable to and what you hold yourselves accountable to.

    I think most would agree no one cares what you believe as long as your consistent. You don’t get to hold Conservatives to one standard and Liberals to another. I am sure we are all guilty of it and it is a struggle.

    I was one of the strongest defenders of the Republican party, but of late they are not the party they once were. I admit fault when I see it. I don’t however use Liberals as an excuse as a reason why it is ok for my side to do wrong. I see this as one of the more pervasive excuses used by the left to justify almost any wrong doing.

    If you are going to start in on a topic, have the courtesy to see it through and not use some lame excuse to bail because your losing an argument. Its an online blog. Saying your wrong wont hurt that bad. Saying someone else was right wont sting that much either.

  87. Curioser and curiouser. I did a search for date of death here:

    http://www.genealogybank.com/gbnk/ssdi/

    It is quite accurate. I entered people that died that I know and it has their information, even going back 40 years. If you enter Nancy Lanza, the date is 12/14, like reported. Enter Adam and the date is 12/13.

    Things that make you go hmmmm…

  88. “Now why would I even bother when Hillary discredited every single one of your talking points of the last few weeks.”

    I see we have moved from the Big Picture being classified, back to Hillary already told us.

    Kinda like when Obama told us it was terrorism, then told us it was a protest, then went back to telling us it was terrorism.

    I am surprised nobody has brought up the Obama overreach verdict passed down today. Dude thought he could decide when the Senate was and wasn’t in session, and made recess appointments during a pro forma session. Federal appeals court ruled it unconstitutional. If it stands, it not only voids the 3 appointments to the NLRB, it also voids any decisions they made while they were there.

  89. Get well soon, Rutherford.

    On another note, I couldn’t get enough funding from my school to attend the political science conference and am too broke to come up with the rest, so I won’t be going to Chicago this year. Perhaps another time….

  90. Huck, very difficult to classify nonexistent events or items, like those the right have been railing about. Hillary pulled the rug out from under all of those crazy right wing theories from the right-wing nut jobs in the media.

  91. Fighting another nasty chest cold

    Yikes! Get well, Rutherford. Pump up that immune system, man. Is there anything you do for exercise? Just curious. Knocking heads around here doesn’t count. :smile:

  92. “Huck, very difficult to classify nonexistent events or items”

    But you and Carney told us our theories were missing the big picture, and then you told us it was classified (after telling us that Hillary already told us). You’re the one who brought up the word “classified” in this discussion.

    This confusion could all be resolved if you would just explain this big picture to us.

    But you won’t.

    Because you can’t.

    Because we are right.

    Because it does matter who killed them and why. It matters so much that we were lied to about both, and it matters so much we still can’t get straight answers about it from Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, or their supporters…present company included.

  93. Recent events show factions in our government are intentionally trying to incite civil unrest. Now that they have removed many strongholds of opposition, get ready for a crackdown on internet freedoms, folks. Right now, the government is attacking its own sites in the name of anonymous to whip up a false cyber terror threat.

    This last bastion of free speech is rapidly deteriorating.

  94. “Huck communicating with you is as much a waste of time as teaching Stephen Hawking to sing.”

    I am not sure that what you have been dishing out lately qualifies as “communicating.”

    It’s obvious that you don’t know what you’re talking about and just trying to cheer lead for your side. Hey, that’s cool. More power to ya. But you could at least be honest about it.

  95. “Hillary pulled the rug out from under all of those crazy right wing theories from the right-wing nut jobs in the media” Newt

    Ok. Deep shit. Can you imagine how boring it would be if we were the conservative version of Newt? Really no other choice but to put her on ignore.

  96. “Ok. Deep shit. Can you imagine how boring it would be if we were the conservative version of Newt? Really no other choice but to put her on ignore.”

    Yeah.

    I think it’s funny that the “what does it matter?” issue has been so thoroughly debunked by Hillary that it now requires her and Obama to make a 60 Minutes appearance for damage control.

  97. The dude anonymous is all pissed about stole millions of dollars worth of property. He didn’t even do it by hacking. He set his lap top up on site. If that’s your “civil war” I take it your are a kleptocrat.

  98. Aaron Swartz? You obviously don’t know the story. He was looking forward to his day in court to appeal his sentence, a sentence, btw, that was reduced to 60 days and would have only required him serve 30. The company he ‘stole’ from wasn’t even the one pressing the charges.

  99. The company he ‘stole’ from wasn’t even the one pressing the charges.

    Jstore wan’t. MIT was, as I understand. I could be wrong. He did steal millions of dollars of intellectual property.

  100. I could be wrong. He did steal millions of dollars of intellectual property.

    Stealing is an obvious crime. When something is stolen, it generally means ownership has changed hands. Intellectual property is another thing all together, and much harder to prove. Like I said, he was looking forward to his day in court. The guy was a selfless hero. Do some real research before you parrot msm accusations. Please. Take the time to listen to another ‘criminal’ our government is trying to railroad for the same reasons.

    Kim Dotcom interview part 1

    Kim Dotcom interview part 2

  101. Actually I do know the story VERY well. The government was pressing charges despite the act the company he took the copyright material from refused to press charges. That was the meat of the story to begin with.

    As for Kleptocracy, I think we are a large part of the way there, heading more and more there every day.

  102. Great video. Sad part is Libs don’t care for my aforementioned reasons. Better to let the country go to hell than admit any wrong doing on their part.

  103. Personally, considering the level of waste and corruption in our government, I don’t have a real issue with a government where they are in constant fear of being able to keep secrets. Maybe that will make them a little more honest knowing they cannot lie to us and get away with it.

    I am following the story on Obama getting his Constitutional nuts kicked in and loving it.

    Newt, step up and admit you dont know something or share your big picture.

  104. Someone who commits suicide obviously wasn’t looking forward to his day anywhere.

    Queue conspiracy theories regarding his death in 3….2….1….

  105. Huck, I haven’t heard any credible theories about Aaron Swartz’s death not being a suicide, other than the family and friends blaming it on the government’s hounding. There are some that say if he did this it would not have been by hanging rather a drug overdose. It is however, awfully convenient for the PTB, since he was considered the biggest obstacle in the way of the government passing legislation designed to clamp down on internet freedom. Some claim he was the reason SOPA did not pass.

  106. I am no angel when it comes to other people’s intellectual property…..but it doesn’t mean I don’t know what stealing is. Nothing that complicated about “intellectual property”…..you have to buy it….

    Dude crashed Jstore he was siphoning so much shit.

    Are these young internet hipsters too cool for the library?

  107. I’ve only looked at Rabbits latest comment so I gather Swartz is the topic.

    Chris Hayes devoted a segment to Swartz today.

    I found this intellectual exercise interesting:

    I see a picnic table in your back yard. I “steal” the idea of the picnic table from you and I put one in my back yard. Now you and I both have a picnic table in our back yard. Where’s the harm? If I access public data that you’re blocking and when all is done we both have the data i.e. I didn’t steal your access, where is the harm?

    I’m just askin’.

  108. “I’ve only looked at Rabbits latest comment so I gather Swartz is the topic.”

    Yeah, we had to move on from Hillary’s presidential-looking hissy fit because of the elusive Big Picture that supposedly absolves Obama from lying to us and blaming the 1st Amendment for Benghazi.

  109. Its rare I say this…but poolman is, in fact correct. I probably haven’t read enough about the Jstore theft.

  110. I’ve got to get to bed to nurse this damn chest of mine but real quick … As I said earlier, Chris Hayes covered the Swartz story today and there is some interesting stuff. This was not your average anti-social hacker. If any of you have ever subscribed to the RSS feed of a blog or Internet site, you have Swartz partly to thank for it. He contributed the invention of RSS. Dude was active in making the Internet a better place for everybody.

    Hayes interviewed his girlfriend. She said that although he had struggled with depression over the years, depression was not a major part of his life in the last year of his life. She said he very simply was worn out … he couldn’t face the prospect of another day dealing with raising money for his legal defense and all the other crap coming down from his indictment.

    If I heard correctly, the irony is jstore said it would start making its academic articles more easily available, which had they done that sooner, would have removed the need for Swartz to “break in” in the first place.

    Anyone interested should watch some of the videos from today’s coverage. It’s interesting stuff. Particularly the views of Harvard Professor Lawrence Lessig who says most prosecutors are woefully ignorant about the Internet and therefore should not be prosecuting cases about it.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46979738/#50597586

  111. 1. The fact that Shwartz was a freeware pioneer is immaterial.

    2. The fact that Jstore “shouldn’t” be withholding much of the info from the public is also immaterial. Work within the law or Jstore themselves to change that.

    3. Swartz killed himself like a coward. At least wait until the trial is over.

    4. I doubt Swartz would have ended up doing time. But, who knows.

    5. Stealing is stealing. You can get every software and music album you want in about 40 seconds. If I…cough…do such a thing…..I know damn well I’m screwing people out of earned money and jobs. I don’t re-brand myself a utopian ideologue to make it ok.

    6. The government was trying to make an example out of Swartz. Being the dumb asses the government always seem to be, they picked a HORRIBLE case to do it with. Morons.

    7. Mr. Dotcom got richer then you can imagine providing a platform for people to steal stuff. Now, if this platform is actually illegal or not is a tough one. But lets not make him out to be some sort of hero.

    8. Celebrating Anonymous DDoS attacks as the beginning of a noble “civil war” is silly talk. Tipping your hat to a mob of online anarchists, many of them communists, because you don’t like the direction the country is going in will, in the worst case scenario, reap the same results that historic appeals to the mob always have in the past.

  112. I have a few questions that I don’t have time enough or honest interest enough to research myself. So maybe someone else knows.

    “The fact that Jstore “shouldn’t” be withholding much of the info from the public is also immaterial. Work within the law or Jstore themselves to change that.”

    I assume we are talking about journal articles? Does Jstore buy those articles that it then sells subscription access to? Or does it own the servers on which the material is stored, that it then sells subscription access to? Both? Neither?

  113. An enumerated rabbit post. Wow. I don’t think Swartz actually did kill himself. That is just my instinct. If he did actually take his own life, I can only see him doing so as more a martyr to draw attention to the cause of this fleeting freedom.

    Kim Dotcom makes no bones about doing what he does for profit. Again, stealing is still relative. Some of us feel information and resources are here for all of us, but that’s a discussion for another day.

    As for the anonymous attack, don’t be ignorant. Who benefits? You should really review history and LEARN from it. I can spend the rest of today pointing to events blamed on a group or person that were staged to move forward an agenda or sway public opinion against a people, person, or race.

    Like 9/11. We can piss about it all you want, but who benefited? Muslims? Pfffft.

  114. are = is

    From across the pond I found what I think is an interesting blog.

    http://incubusblog.wordpress.com/

    I have liked what I have read so far.

    I think herein is the real reason the government would like to shut down or better govern the internet. People all over have so much in common and can unite to be an unstoppable force against oppression. And who/what is it that oppresses us?

  115. “Some of us feel information and resources are here for all of us, but that’s a discussion for another day.”

    Yeah…resources for all of us. I agree. Give me your shiney.

  116. “8. Celebrating Anonymous DDoS attacks as the beginning of a noble “civil war” is silly talk. Tipping your hat to a mob of online anarchists, many of them communists, because you don’t like the direction the country is going in will, in the worst case scenario, reap the same results that historic appeals to the mob always have in the past.”

    I really don’t like it when words are put in my mouth I didn’t say. I made no claims to nobility. I said not all civil wars are conventional conflicts, and can come in many forms.

    Right now the government feels that it is above reproach and rightly so. It flagrantly tests the boundaries of the Constitution trying to find any and every way it can to expand its powers. Government is more involved in our lives than it has ever been and it increases every day. Our government by rule of law can now imprison us without representation. They can now perform punitive taxation. Are you ok with this? I’m not!

    How do you propose we fight back? The system has done very well quashing any 3rd party in elections. Elections of late have been the lesser of 2 evils.

    In this country the government is all powerful. The citizens are out matched and stand little to no chance against the government no matter what playing field we might chose. In most every case the laws are written as such to benefit the government.

    If we had legal recourse, Obamacare would never have happened. If we had legal recourse the National Defense Authorization Act would never have been passed. IMO, the founding fathers would never have allowed either of these things to happen.

    So how does David stand up the Goliath? In a stand up, mano a mano fight, we lose, period.

  117. My appologies for inferring “noble”. Since you made the claim that anonymous was starting a “civil war”, which it is not, I made the incorrect assumption hyperbole was the order of the day.

    If posting links on behalf of anonymous feels like edgy rebellion to you, more power to you. Throw your lot in with commie anarchists.

  118. R – Hope you don’t have what I caught. I have the damnest, bizarro cold/flu I have ever had. I’ve never felt that bad, but get runs of coughing so severe I lose my breath and get dizzy. Then just fine for as much as an hour. Then a single tickle and away we go again.

    A couple of nights ago I went outside in the cold air and coughed a full minute until I vomited. It is awful. I hate being sick, as I am sure you do.

    On another topic, did anybody see the headline where Obama said he had actually fired a gun? Really? Wow…he’s actually fired a gun – imagine that. I nearly drowned my keyboard in coffee. Had to immediately go over and pull some beards over at Fat Grannies; I don’t think they share in my hilarity.

  119. “If posting links on behalf of anonymous feels like edgy rebellion to you, more power to you. Throw your lot in with commie anarchists.”

    #1 I am posting on behalf of myself. I am no more posting on their behalf than I am for anyone else when I copy a link. I post for the information it contains, not to further anyone person, you?

    #2 Do you have any evidence to support the notion that Anonymous is in any way linked with the Communist party? While I have done more listening to their statements(that I agree with by in large) than I have digging into who they are, I have no heard anything to suggest they are in league with the Communists.

  120. They don’t believe in any sort of intellectual property. They believe we are entitled to take any music, movie or software that we feel like taking. They were some of the main OWS organizers. You do the math.

  121. “Huck, the link in 156 that Rutherford posted are pretty good and do answer your questions.”

    After clicking the link, I see it leads to a video, and I have to admit that I am not really interested in listening to a video on the subject.

    I guess I will just stay out of this one.

  122. “If you find anything credible showing a Communist affiliation…”

    He isn’t talking about Communist “affiliation,” he is talking about Communist ideology.

  123. PF I feel like crap warmed over. It’s most likely bronchitis. Here is the rub I have to report to a new job at 8am tomorrow and there is a 90 day zero tolerance for absence policy. The good news, thanks to modern technology I’ll be working from my home office. And no, this is not like my current business where as a consultant I can’t count on a regular paycheck. This is a full time job with a (low) hourly pay rate.

    After two weeks of training I’m hoping to get 2nd shift so I can keep my day business up and running.

    Taking this job I think will make me the least professional of any of you guys on the board. When your car breaks down and you need a tow or you need your battery jumped, and you call for emergency road service … you may hear me at the other end of the phone. :-)

    And with that, I’m going to bed so I only feel halfway crappy tomorrow morning.

  124. “Taking this job I think will make me the least professional of any of you guys on the board.”

    Seeing as my job is running pieces of paper through a scantron grading machine and walking back and forth in a lecture hall trying to catch college freshmen cheating, I think you might have me beat, Rutherford.

    Congrats on the job. Any is better than none.

  125. Obama, backer of these murderers, remains silent. He is furnishing these jihad killers with F16s, tanks and 1.5 billion dollars.

    Miss Mubarak yet?
    “Egyptian Snipers shooting people from Rooftops
    ” Liveleak (thanks to Golem)

    Egyptian Snipers shooting people from Rooftops this is in Port Said, new reports state that there have been over 45-50 deaths so far in the past 3 days, after large Protests againstt the Muslim Brotherhood and a recent court verdict sentencing 23 people to death over soccer riots. These snipers look to be situated on an Egyptian govt building so they are shooting people with the consent of the ruling Egyptian party the Muslim Brotherhood. It appears that people are firing back at them.

    http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2013/01/islamic-law-muslim-brotherhood-government-shooting-people-from-rooftops.html

  126. I found this interesting. While Sen. Diane Feinstein (D-Calif.) is introducing legislation that would enact a so-called “assault weapons” ban. The bill would ban more than 150 firearms and limit magazines to 10 rounds. There is no expiration date on Feinstein’s bill…the government is doing this…

    The Department of Homeland Security is seeking to acquire 7,000 5.56x45mm NATO “personal defense weapons” (PDW) — also known as “assault weapons” when owned by civilians. The solicitation, originally posted on June 7, 2012, comes to light as the Obama administration is calling for a ban on semi-automatic rifles and high capacity magazines.

    Citing a General Service Administration (GSA) request for proposal (RFP), Steve McGough of RadioViceOnline.com reports that DHS is asking for the 7,000 “select-fire” firearms because they are “suitable for personal defense use in close quarters.” The term select-fire means the weapon can be both semi-automatic and automatic. Civilians are prohibited from obtaining these kinds of weapons.

    The RFP describes the firearm as “Personal Defense Weapon (PDW) – 5.56x45mm NATO, select-fire firearm suitable for personal defense use in close quarters and/or when maximum concealment is required.” Additionally, DHS is asking for 30 round magazines that “have a capacity to hold thirty (30) 5.56x45mm NATO rounds.”

    Republican New York state Sen. Greg Ball also issued a press release this week bringing attention to the weapons purchase request.

  127. R@175: I think we may have the same thing. It’s been basically 100% bronchitis since the first. Hopefully today will be the last of the bad stuff. Also seems to be 100% viral; I did a Z-pack and it hasn’t had any effect. I guess that’s good.

    re: your new job. Work is a thing of pride, no matter what it is. I’m editing some pretty bad stuff for our little publishing company – as you saw from what I sent you. My value is about 1/15 per hour of what I was making as a doctor. Doesn’t bother me a bit. My Dad was a miner and out of work for about 6-8 years when I was very small. He ended up as a 50-something year-old, working a (hand) shovel for the State Road Commission – you know, those guys alongside the road that everybody laughs at? He made $1.25/hr.

    BTW, we may buy that guy’s submission and publish it as a parody.

  128. Noah @ 177. You’re not looking at this right. Think about it: No matter who dies, he’s a muslim fundamentalist. How can you improve on that?

  129. On more then a few occasions I would stand in front of Home Depot with illeagal Mexicans. I always found work doing that. I would make 10 or 15 cash. Contracters would snatch you up by 10 am at the latest. Might have been a booming 90s thing. I garuntee the wages were.

    Perfect example of things black guys won’t do, though.

    No work for me today. Snow day!

  130. Pfesser, do you remember what happened to all the artifacts and historical sites in Iraq when we invaded? Don’t believe the propaganda. These atrocities are intended to garner our outrage and support for the military and police actions. You’re being played.

    Like the black bloc at peaceful protests intentionally inciting violence to ‘justify’ police brutality and crackdown and draconian laws. It is so obvious anymore. If you read it in the msm, know it is meant to incite the very reaction it does. Who benefits?

  131. Just so you know I am still out here: Steve Kroft of CBS News asked Obama about Bengazi, and he replied that Bob Gates once joked that he could guarantee the President that somewhere in the federal government, someone was screwing up. Ha Ha!!

    Writing off the failure in Bengazi as a joke is disgusting. The President and Hillary were probably spending too much time skeet shooting.

    Hillary allegedly has double vision after her fall. I hope it continues.

    I may still be a trifle miffed.

  132. I Finally got around to listening to Hillery testify on Bengazi and it quite frankly pissed me off. This administrations desire to dismiss this entire thing and try to distract rather than answer in my mind tells me some heads at the top need to roll.

    Obama “I gave a clear directive. Make sure we are securing our personal and doing what we need to do.”

    Yet General Ham, commander of African operations, and Real Admiral Gaouette of the mideast carrier group, were relieved of duty for trying to save our people in Bengazi.

    Obama lied, watched them die, and relieved our Generals/Admirals because they had a problem with it. When people die to willful/gross negligence, the politics needs to stop, and people need to be held accountable.

    For purporting to be the most transparent administration in history, way too much time has passed without answers not only to the deaths in Bengazi but also in Mexico with Fast and Furious. History will see this as one of the most incompetent and corrupt administrations in history.

  133. If the government passed a law to take your guns, would you give up your guns or defy the law and keep your guns?

    Give up: 22%, Defy Law: 65%, Don’t Know: 13%

    The poll’s responders identify themselves as 39% Democrat, 34% Republican, Other 23%.

    The poll was conducted January 15-17, 2013 and included 1008 registered voters.

  134. …..really?

    Top Obama Aide: US System Not Worthy of Obama

    According to Dan Pfeiffer, Obama’s political agenda is so great that the United States does not deserve the greatness.

    No Messiah issues here.

  135. “According to Dan Pfeiffer, Obama’s political agenda is so great that the United States does not deserve the greatness.”

    I couldn’t agree more. Since we don’t deserve him, let’s send him to someplace else that does. Preferably far, far away….

  136. I think I’ve figured out why I don’t completely dig Abby Martin. I don’t really know what she stands FOR. I know what she’s against … Bush AND Obama. Is there anything in the world actually going right in her book?

    Plus, the gimmick of her walking around her studio as she talks gets old real fast.

    P.S. I actually jumped from Poolman’s Lee Camp video to Abby Martin’s interview of Camp … which is what prompted this comment.

  137. Even with a full time job I can eek out a moment or two to rejoice in Sarah Palin’s misfortune. You know you’ve hit rock bottom when you get fired by Fox. :lol:

    Kinda makes my years of smacking her look silly in retrospect but I was just too impatient for her 15 minutes of fame to expire.

  138. “Kinda makes my years of smacking her look silly in retrospect but I was just too impatient for her 15 minutes of fame to expire.”

    Even though we have told you for years that the only people she is really influencing is you and yours. She has been completely insignificant since 2008. It’s laughable that it took you over 4 years to figure that out.

    “Imagine that. The assault weapons ban exempts government officials.”

    I don’t really find this to be an issue. It was just a couple weeks ago many on the right were (rightfully) mocking the New York gun legislation that forgot to exclude cops and other government officials.

  139. When your best friend, your spouse, is from a different ‘race,’ it can be quite interesting.

    Newt, this I know. My wife is white … although there’s many a time I think she’s “blacker” than I am. :-)

    Incidentally, she thought I was too hard on Chris Matthews etal but she understood where I was coming from.

  140. Is there anything in the world actually going right in her book?

    Actually she does a segment called heroes and villains where she highlights someone or group doing good and then someone or some group doing evil.

    I like her style, obviously. A lot of that is because she isn’t a polished journalist and does non traditional things like walk around the set.

    To each his own, as the saying goes. Bottom line, I find the topics those of interest and import and her POV is similar to mine regarding many of them.

    Before she had a show with RT, I read her stuff here: http://mediaroots.org/index.php

  141. On another note, I couldn’t get enough funding from my school to attend the political science conference and am too broke to come up with the rest, so I won’t be going to Chicago this year. Perhaps another time….

    Sorry to hear it but with this new job there is a better than 50/50 chance I’ll be asleep while you’re at the conference anyway. :shock:

  142. How about those Obama phones R?

    I have really never understood this almost pathological obsession Libs have with Palin and their family. She mattered for about 2 minutes when she was a VP candidate, and that was about it. What is telling though is that even though its been more than 4 years of not mattering politically, they still hound her relentlessly. Their contempt and hatred I think says more about them than it does anything else.

    “I don’t really find this to be an issue. It was just a couple weeks ago many on the right were (rightfully) mocking the New York gun legislation that forgot to exclude cops and other government officials.”

    I am curious as to why you do not have an issue with the government passing laws that they enforce on us but that they exempt themselves from. Gun laws, Oblamacare taxes, kids not having to pay back student loans, I have a serious problem with all of that. Seems like we are nurturing a privileged sect, a de facto royal cast that is exempt from the laws it writes.

  143. “I am curious as to why you do not have an issue with the government passing laws that they enforce on us but that they exempt themselves from. Gun laws, Oblamacare taxes, kids not having to pay back student loans, I have a serious problem with all of that. Seems like we are nurturing a privileged sect, a de facto royal cast that is exempt from the laws it writes.”

    Without knowing exactly who the bill is defining as “government official” I could see where it could affect people like law enforcement and the military.

    As I pointed out, the recent NY legislation was rightfully mocked for its failure to exempt law enforcement, essentially making it illegal for cops to carry certain types of weapons. Now we’re talking about a federal law.

    If we’re talking about people like congressmen and the POTUS…yeah, they need to be limited to the same types of weapons that the rest of us are potentially being limited to. Cops and soldiers…not so much.

    That’s just my opinion. I preface it with the statement that I think the current limitations (no fully auto or full-to-semi toggling) on guns is enough.

  144. Forgive me if this was covered already … why did Rand Paul quiz Hillary about diverting guns from Libya to Turkey when the much more relevant question was why Ambassador Stevens was involved in diverting arms to Syria? When Hillary heard “Turkey” she just about laughed in his face.

    I don’t think what happened involving the “cover up” is all that hard to conjecture. We had a covert CIA operation doing stuff in Libya (like arms diversion to Syria) about which the public wouldn’t approve and other nations might not like either. So Rice was fed a bogus line to sell to the press.

    The reason it’s a big deal to you guys is that you have invented a different reason for the coverup — namely to save Obama’s bad ass al Qaeda reputation.

  145. Thanks thor. I hope you feel better, Rutherford. Congratulations on your new job.

    We watched “Impossible” a movie about the 2004 tsunami. The British made a documentary which is on line about what really happened. It and the movie are almost identical. One can see similar mental processes in our society. Most people must have time to accept developing danger, and once it begins, only a few take charge with a plan, or can drive themselves to react quickly enough to save themselves.

    Contrary to what Newt wrote, Hillary answered nothing. In fact she contributed to the combination of lutefisk and feed lot manure pit odors wafting from Washington DC.

    When I was in the Air Force, a man guarding B 52’s froze to death. There was an investigation as one would expect. Two people told me Paul Harvey said “if you have a son in the Air Force be proud of him. If you have a son at Ellsworth, pray for him.” That seems to apply to this administration too.

  146. “The reason it’s a big deal to you guys is that you have invented a different reason for the coverup — namely to save Obama’s bad ass al Qaeda reputation.”

    Obama is still running around trying to convince us he has decimated al Qaeda, while different facets of the movement run rampant throughout North Africa. How is asserting he didn’t want to admit anything different 2 months before the election that much of a stretch?

    I keep hearing about this big “Stevens was involved in sending weapons to Syria” conspiracy. Here is why I am not buying it.

    Al Qaeda has a large presence in Syria right now. We know that. If weapons are going to the Syrian resistance, they are falling into the hands of AQ. Why would AQ attack the hand that is feeding it?

    Obama is a known for his CYA. That theory makes much more sense IMO than does the Syrian weapons theory. I think Occam’s razor is applicable here.

    ———————————-

    Noah, a better argument regarding the weapons exemptions occurred to me.

    The fact that government officials need to be exempt from certain weapons legislation highlights why we all should be exempt. Because none of us wants to have a worse weapon than the criminals have.

    If I wanted to attack that exemption, that would be the angle I took.

  147. Yeah right Rutherford. The reason they couldn’t stop giving passionate speeches about how America needs to be more responsible with the exercise of the 1st amendment was becuase the C.I.A chose that as the cover story. Give me a fucking break, guy.

  148. Even if Stevens was involved in clandestine activity, so what? Why does that necessitate lectures on responsbile movie making and Rice pretending Al Queda is history all the while Al Queda opens up a new front in North Africa?

    This was all about a few poll numbers going south on the even of an election no one new the results of.

    The campaign highjacked foriegn policy.

    I assure you C.I.A cover stories don’t involve philosophical discussions on free speech. Cover stories are short and boring. Not fodder for coffee house discussions.

  149. I am still waiting to hear Rutherford’s inevitable defense of the presidential-sounding “…what difference, at this point, does it make?”

  150. Contrary to what Newt wrote, Hillary answered nothing.

    That’s the truth. She’s apparently above any real interrogation or obeying our laws. She’s like royalty. Royalty doesn’t follow the commoner’s laws.

    Laws are not the answer here anyway. As with gun control, criminals DO NOT OBEY Laws! The very rich don’t care about laws. They don’t care about politics or what type of ism they’re living in. They buy whatever they need, including government officials. Pull your heads out of your asses, people.

    We have no good and honest leaders in government. Period. Any that would be have been forced out or marginalized. You guys haven’t been reading the writing on the wall, have you? It hasn’t changed in a long time and there is an awful lot of it. Waiting for a new revelation? It is a mob world where the teams are playing against all of us peons. We ain’t in these secret and not-so-secret societies with the fancy handshakes and shit. Like Carlin said, it’s a club and we’re not in it. The arrogance of them all really burns my ass.

    The Hillary in your face “What difference does it make?” shit, says it all. I wonder if she’ll melt if doused with water. Hmmmmm…

    I remember her laughing it up when Gaddafi got his. I dislike her flippancy. I don’t trust her at all. Good thing she isn’t POTUS. Not that any of this shit could be worse. These aren’t public servants. Far from it. They don’t give a shit about us. We’re not in their clubs. They don’t follow any laws. There once was something by name of the Geneva Convention, I recall. Words on a page. No longer words to live by, I suppose. We’ve reached this ‘new reality’. Really? It’s just a twist of the same reality. It’s still good or evil. There is nothing new under the sun..

    But hey, let’s do something. Right? We can do something. We can craft new legislation. There are plenty of laws, even gun laws ALREADY on the books. Laws are for the little people. Get a fucking grip! Law abiding citizens are getting the shaft because they try to follow all the restrictions and pay all the necessary expenses to stay legal. Some find loopholes so they remain ‘officially’ legal. We consider that crafty. They ‘deserve’ their rewards. They’ve ‘earned’ the right. Often we allow the craftiest to get away with it.

    The prosecutor going after Aaron Swartz is a fine example. She lets corporate criminals off easy, but uses all her power to punish someone trying to help others. Someone crafty, but for good intentions instead of evil ones.

    We blow off punishing government and corporate criminals that have made millions and billions from known illegal activity and have systematically committed fraud against us. Or we promote them. Or let them off real light. To corporates, it’s just a business expense. A cost of operations. Pass the ‘savings’ on to the customer. That sends a message and burden to the street, and not one of fairness or evenness.

    Right now we are sending that same message to the world. We can send our drones whenever and wherever we want. Who cares if they are only 2 percent accurate? We don’t get hurt and we’re the ones holding the moral compass. This world is upside down.

  151. “Right now we are sending that same message to the world. We can send our drones whenever and wherever we want. Who cares if they are only 2 percent accurate? We don’t get hurt and we’re the ones holding the moral compass. This world is upside down.”

    Kinda puts that evil prick George W. Bush, who used to just capture them and pour water over their face to get information from them, into perspective, doesn’t it?

  152. Yeah, I used to think Obama was going to put in a few speed bumps on this highway to hell. W added some on ramps and made it wider. I think Obama added the HOV lane.

  153. The outrage over waterboarding is rendered laughable by the left’s deafening silence over Obama’s drone assassinations. Code Pink has to go all the way to Pakistan to get anyone to pay attention, these days.

  154. Real quick — the “what difference does it make” comment was odd and I think can be deciphered when placed in context to what came right after it. I think Hillary was telling Ron Johnson that the political spin in the immediate aftermath of the killings doesn’t amount to a hill of beans — what is important is to find out who did the deed and bring them to justice.

    I think she was trying to say in reference to the politics of it, what difference does it make? And let’s be honest, putting aside Rabbit’s 1st amendment outrage, why do we really care all that much what misinformation came out in the first 10 days or so of the attack? We all have an idea of what happened now so what real harm was done?

    Two more points … Benghazi occurred in the direct shadow of the Cairo uprising which WAS motivated by the video. Second, the investigation by the FBI is STILL not concluded. While the video story seems bogus now, we still don’t know what really happened.

    On a different note, Huck etal are absolutely right concerning Obama’s violent foreign policy record. He’s in very little position to criticize George W. Bush.

  155. “what is important is to find out who did the deed and bring them to justice.”

    I would like to present a phrase to you. Actionable Intelligence. What does it matter that we get accurate information and fast when lives hang in the balance? I know 4 people’s families that think it matters a HELL of a lot. So should we.

    How bout dem fones?

  156. “I think Hillary was telling Ron Johnson that the political spin in the immediate aftermath of the killings doesn’t amount to a hill of beans — what is important is to find out who did the deed and bring them to justice.”

    Yes. That is clearly what she was telling him.

    Just like you are telling us….

    “why do we really care all that much what misinformation came out in the first 10 days or so of the attack? We all have an idea of what happened now so what real harm was done?”

    It’s not important that we were lied to….or why we were lied to…or even if we are still being lied to. It’s not important that Obama and Hillary keep invoking those flag draped coffins from Benghazi, shedding their crocodile tears…even though they continued to spread their lies while standing right next to them. It’s not important that they told the family members their loved ones were killed because of a video. It’s not important that our Dear Leader stood in front of the world and blamed the exercising of our most cherished right for an attack against us…all but saying it was chickens coming home to roost.

    None of that matters now. What really matters is killing the al Qaeda members that belong to a decimated movement, rendered virtually inoperable by the great terrorist killer.

  157. The fact that Hillary refused to go spread Obama’s BS on the Sunday talk shows displays just how much she knew that it would matter eventually.

    She isn’t stupid. What’s pissing me off is that she thinks the rest of us are.

  158. “I would like to present a phrase to you. Actionable Intelligence. What does it matter that we get accurate information and fast when lives hang in the balance?”

    Yep.

    Finding out what really happened was so important to Barack Obama that 4 days after the attack, CNN was able to find Steven’s journal in the charred ruins of the site.

    But what difference does it make now?

  159. why do we really care all that much what misinformation came out in the first 10 days or so of the attack?” – R

    misinform
    verb
    1: give false or misleading information to [syn: {mislead}]

    From Moby Thesaurus II by Grady Ward, 1.0 [moby-thes]:

    22 Moby Thesaurus words for “misinform”: bowl a googly, con, corrupt, deceive, defraud, delude, dupe, fool, gull, lead astray, misadvise, misdirect, miseducate, misguide, misinstruct, mislead, misteach, mystify, obfuscate, obscure, pervert, throw a curve

    Is there no surprise or wonder at why you voted for Obama. Anyone who can say something so monumentally stupid, so blindly pathetic as to excuse bald face lies in the face of death; truly, it is no wonder why Obama caters to his constituency the way that he does.

    You deserve each other.

  160. Obama’s debate reaction to Romney’s incompetent attack on his Bengazi lies may have been coordinated with Candy Crowly. At the time, the president said gleefully something like look at the transcript which Crowely happened to have ready to read. Even she admitted later that Romney had some truth on his side. He merely miss used words.

    Obama spoke to the UN and the attacks were an excessive response to the anti-Islam video. “Since our founding, the United States has been a nation that respects all faiths. We reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others. But there is absolutely no justification for this type of senseless violence”

    Obama also told David Letterman that the terrorists had acted only in response to the video and took advantage of public reaction to it.Kris Wizzlie wrote in the comments section of a blog, CM (Pro-al Qaeda group seen behind deadly Benghazi attack. Sept 13, 2012) that Micheal Scheuer, former CIA head of the Bin Laden task force said we were funding Al Qaeda during the revolt against Kadaffi and whom we are still funding in Syria.Wizzlie claimed the statement is on YouTube.

    How do we know that the Egyptian riots were a spontaneous reaction to the video none of the protesters had read? Because the press and our administration told us so? The Egyptian riots could well have been instigated to cover for the attack in Bengazi. We don’t know. The best that Rutherford can honestly say is that the riots in Egypt appeared to be the result of a video.

    The administration lied for reasons unknown.That is a fact. it is also true that the Obama and Hillary act as if this is worthy of levity. It is also true that poor planning led to the men’s deaths.

    “You deserve each other” Yes, but the rest of us don’t.

    What can you expect of a party which lionizes a sexual predator, a man who let a woman drown in the back of his car, and a man who betrayed his own “brothers in arms?” I see a pattern dating from NOW’s defense of Clinton, a female reporter’s admitting that since it was Clinton, she was ready to buy some knee pads. Most of the party is buying knee pads.

    What at this point, does it matter?

  161. I don’t know….

    Maybe we’re being too hard on Hillary. She’s given us a gift, really.

    Now when Obama supporters talk about all the great stuff he’s done, we can look them square in the eyes and ask them, “what difference, at this point, does it make?”

    That Stimulus plan?…what difference, at this point, does it make?
    Killing bin Laden?…what difference, at this point, does it make?
    Taxing the rich?…what difference, at this point, does it make?

    And the list can just go on and on and on….

    Thank you, Hillary.

  162. “He’s in very little position to criticize George W. Bush.”-R

    No, but you are in a position to criticize Obama. Yet, you and your leftist friends don’t because you people are fake.

    We can go back in time and read entire blog posts by you outlining the outrage of Gitmo and water-boarding. When the administration made the case for giving these terrorists Constitutional rights in a court of law, there you were carrying water. When that conversation disappeared, so did you. What a coincidence…..just not a priority anymore. 90% of liberals are partisan fakes.

    As for the first 10 days after Benghazi….the administration was caught in a disgusting lie for the sake of winning an election. Your tripe about it all being a C. I. A. cover story is laughable.

    It’s a big deal. It wasn’t a “bump in the road”. It was the start of a new war that had nothing to do with a demonstration (there was none), or a movie.

    Going in front of the UN and lecturing America over the attack disgusts me. It should disgust you. But….it doesn’t.

  163. “What’s pissing me off is that she thinks the rest of us are.” Huck

    I don’t know, man. She’s right. 50% of this country never heard of Benghazi. Another 30% are people like Rutherford and Newt.

    Remaining 20% can be ignored.

  164. Obama and his people have pretty well figured us out

    Poolmam, you have been writing some sense lately. Are you still persona grata in the kitchen?

  165. “I don’t know, man. She’s right. 50% of this country never heard of Benghazi. Another 30% are people like Rutherford and Newt.”

    Point taken.

  166. “According to Dan Pfeiffer, Obama’s political agenda is so great that the United States does not deserve the greatness.”

    I’m hitting comments kinda scattershot right now. Was this quote ever sourced? I just love out of context quotes. :-)

  167. Are you still persona grata in the kitchen?

    Haven’t been there in awhile, sad to say. I think my Obama criticism was less than welcome, along with my Ron Paul credo. Other than that, those of us that are friends I suspect still respect each.

  168. I wonder what this source changes that made you unable to contribute or comment before you saw it?

    The source tells me you didn’t pull it out of your ass and it provides context. If you posted the source earlier in the thread, my apologies — as I said, I’m hitting these comments kinda randomly right now.

    “TheReaganCoalition” couldn’t honor Ronnie with any better web site that that one? Sad.

    Here’s the actual quote:

    “There’s a moment of opportunity now that’s important,” said White House Communications Director Dan Pfeiffer . “What’s frustrating is that we don’t have a political system or an opposition party worthy of the opportunity.”

    Not a damn thing there about the “greatness” of Obama’s agenda or the US “not deserving it”.

    What I love is the article twists the quote and then yellow journalists like yourself lift the bogus paraphrase and pretend it’s the real quote.

    Would you not agree that the current Congress is not worthy of putting forth ANY agenda? They can’t get out of their own way. They have a popularity rating befitting such dismal performance.

  169. Thanks for letting me know, Poolman. I could have forgotten the person, but I think Ragi was banished. If they did dump you, its their loss, not yours.

    240 that attitude is just one reason why citizens need to be armed.

  170. Part of the blame rests with the administration. Whether or not you agree that Congress is unworthy, you never say it publicaly. Sometimes, the best course is to do nothing. Or, you look for allies and negotiate as LBJ did.

    LBJ was a master parilamentarian. Johnson was avuncular, and he knew what was in lawmakers’ closets.Johnson worked the legislature with “come let us reason together.”

    He knew it was the president’s job to show leadership and make alliances with both parties to accomplish his goals. Obama is no LBJ.

  171. People like Barack Obama and Rutherford refuse to understand that the last 2 congresses were elected in order to stop Obama and his fellow Democrats from enacting their agendas.

    What they see as unworthy and dismal failure from a broken system, some of us see as the system working EXACTLY as it was designed to work. It is a system designed to force negotiation so that the end product are good, solid bills of law….not some BS where we get told we have to pass it to see what’s in it. And when everyone on all sides are negotiating in good faith, it works fine.

    This gridlock is a feature, not a flaw.

  172. No surprise R. First, I am not a journalist, to get the obvious out of the way first. Second, the typical Liberal defense to talk about their issues with delivery and avoid the topic altogether is also predictable and expected.

    How about those Oblama phones?

  173. Lets make it simple. Does any part of you find it off-putting/improper at the very least, up to and exceeding offensive, that Obama is working so hard to manufacture his Presidential legacy?

  174. @243 – I drop by FG’s once on a blue moon; still filled with bigots, outraged that someone might have different opinion, and determined to suppress it. As my Boy Twain might say, a bigot is someone who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject. Or, Ambrose Bierce. Bigot: One who is obstinately and zealously attached to an opinion that you do not entertain.

  175. We should conduct tours of that site.

    I agree with Huck, gridlock is a feature, and much of our present state is the result of Obama’s inability or unwillingness to negotiate effectively. Our present gridlock is largely the product of Obama’s wanting to assume the high command–as Noah wrote, a manufactured legacy..

    I’m tired. Our extreme drought has given us only four snowstorms this winter, though it was cold enough to keep snow on the ground for a month. After days of fog, we had a mini – blizzard early this morning with just enough snow to close schools and highways. it is the same system which has caused severe thunderstorms and tornadoes.

    An announcer on Omaha KFAB said he read the economy has shrunken. It can’t be, he said, because Obama said our economy is doing better, just like his Arab Spring policy.l

  176. I tried to revisit M&H’s site a couple times. The format they changed to for comments makes it cumbersome and not user friendly. At least for me. Whoever is writing those posts now has lost my interest. They aren’t very thought provoking or appealing, imo. Life is too precious to waste on reading partisan hacks.

  177. What they see as unworthy and dismal failure from a broken system, some of us see as the system working EXACTLY as it was designed to work.

    I would really like to see it work exactly as designed. I don’t think it does. I see the originally established system of checks and balances as now eroded with moneyed interest having their way across the board.

    Can you cite an example of ‘working as designed’?

  178. Is anyone following the news from the state of Israel? Immigrating Ethiopian Jews forcibly inoculated with contraception. High-ranking military members exposing genocide and other crimes against humanity. Failure to appear before a mandatory UN rights review. Political and social upheaval. It isn’t all hunky dory. There is mention by some observers of the proverbial chickens coming home to roost.

  179. “Can you cite an example of ‘working as designed’?”

    Every time 1 of the Houses of Congress or the Executive doesn’t get to do what it wants because the other 2 are stopping it.

    Every time negotiations between the 3 results in a bill.

  180. What a perverted time we live in. Wallstreet has slightly bullish grin over a contraction because it means the Federal Reserve will keep printing funny money.

  181. Newt – when you mentioned going to Vietnam I asked my daughter who spent 2 months backpacking in Vietnam in 1993 before it became a tourist spot so to speak. (We finally caught up to talk.) Back then things were very restrictive. You had to have a picture on your visa and spell out where you were planning to visit and had to travel in groups of 10 or so. She taught English in Hanoi for two weeks. If cashing a $100 TC you received a stack a foot high or more of their currency. Then you had to figure how you were going to carry it. Shopping was easy – for instance if you were looking for fans there would be a whole row of shops selling only fans. But her info is obsolete. I didn’t realize it was that long ago!

    She knows people who have been there more recently and it is very open to travel and tourists. People speak English. Silk is very inexpensive so if you want an outfit bring the pattern or picture or measurements of the outfit. Great French bakeries and pastries in Hoi Chi Min. It will be hot; they have some beautiful beaches. Dalat? is in the mountains and cooler. It is/was a honeymoon spot. In the Me Kong Delta is the ChuChu?? Tunnel. One of the tunnels the VC used during the war. There are interesting things to see off the beaten track and don’t be afraid to talk with the people. And if possible travel or hang out with people from other countries not just other Americans. If you are an experienced traveler you learned this already.

    One funny story. Recently, one male friend was playing pool when a young woman approached him. Was he interested? No! A bit later she returned with a girl of about 10/11. Again the answer was No! A bit later she returned with young two boys. NO! NO! NO! NO wanta fucky!!!

    I doubt you will be bothered on that issue. Aside from that she said you will have a great time. Especially if you don’t stand out as an American!

  182. Huck, its what this regime is doing to us, only we’re paying them.

    And it illustrates “soft racism” which is Rutherford’s current topic.
    Simple, but effective.

  183. Someone sent me this earlier:

    Winners of the “worst analogies ever written in a high school essay” contest:

    The little boat gently drifted across the pond exactly the way a bowling ball wouldn’t.
    (Russell Beland, Springfield)
    McBride fell 12 stories, hitting the pavement like a Hefty Bag filled with vegetable soup.
    (Paul Sabourin, Silver Spring)
    From the attic came an unearthly howl. The whole scene had an eerie, surreal quality, like when you’re on vacation in another city and “Jeopardy” comes on at 7 p.m. instead of 7:30.
    (Roy Ashley, Washington)
    Bob was as perplexed as a hacker who meant to access T:flw.quid55328.com\aaakk/ch@ung but got T:\flw.quidaaakk/ch@ung by mistake
    (Ken Krattenmaker, Landover Hills)
    She caught your eye like one of those pointy hook latches that used to dangle from screen doors and would fly up whenever you banged the door open again.
    (Rich Murphy, Fairfax Station)
    He spoke with the wisdom that can only come from experience, like a guy who went blind because he looked at a solar eclipse without one of those boxes with a pinhole in it and now goes around the country speaking at high schools about the dangers of looking at a solar eclipse without one of those boxes with a pinhole in it.
    (Joseph Romm, Washington)
    Her hair glistened in the rain like nose hair after a sneeze.
    (Chuck Smith, Woodbridge)
    Her eyes were like two brown circles with big black dots in the center.
    (Russell Beland, Springfield)
    Her vocabulary was as bad as, like, whatever.
    (Unknown)
    He was as tall as a six-foot-three-inch tree.
    (Jack Bross, Chevy Chase)
    The hailstones leaped from the pavement, just like maggots when you fry them in hot grease.
    (Gary F. Hevel, Silver Spring)
    Her date was pleasant enough, but she knew that if her life was a movie this guy would be buried in the credits as something like “Second Tall Man.”
    (Russell Beland, Springfield)
    Long separated by cruel fate, the star-crossed lovers raced across the grassy field toward each other like two freight trains, one having left Cleveland at 6:36 p.m. traveling at 55 mph, the other from Topeka at 4:19 p.m. at a speed of 35 mph.
    (Jennifer Hart, Arlington)
    The politician was gone but unnoticed, like the period after the Dr. on a Dr.Pepper can.
    (Wayne Goode, Madison, Ala.)
    They lived in a typical suburban neighborhood with picket fences that resembled Nancy Kerrigan’s teeth.
    (Paul Kocak, Syracuse, N.Y.)
    John and Mary had never met. They were like two hummingbirds who had also never met.
    (Russell Beland, Springfield)
    The thunder was ominous-sounding, much like the sound of a thin sheet of metal being shaken backstage during the storm scene in a play.
    (Barbara Fetherolf, Alexandria)
    His thoughts tumbled in his head, making and breaking alliances like underpants in a dryer without Cling Free.
    (Chuck Smith, Woodbridge)
    The red brick wall was the color of a brick-red Crayola crayon.
    (Helen Hopp, Yucaipa)

  184. I liked them Pfessor.

    A headline on the Daily Telegraph is “Vladimir Putin hires Boyz 11 Men to boost the Russian birth rate. Authoritarians know how to have fun.”

  185. Just checking in so you guys know I haven’t bit the big one. I’m hoping to publish new material before end of weekend.

    Quick gripe to get off my chest. I’m a webinar producer with virtually no clients and no income. When I get lucky, I charge in the neighborhood of $150.00 per hour. So I take a $9.00 per hour job with steady income to help make ends meet.

    Here is the rub — today in our virtual classroom, I helped the instructor get over a technical issue using the expertise that I charge $150.00 per hour for … and of course I will get paid today $9.00 per hour.

    One simple question — ain’t that a bitch???? :-( :evil:

  186. DESCENT INTO INSANITY. GESTAPO ENFORCEMENT ARM OF OBAMA CARE, THE IRS WARNS–

    Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

    (CNSNews.com) – In a final regulation issued Wednesday, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) assumed that under Obamacare the cheapest health insurance plan available in 2016 for a family will cost $20,000 for the year.

    Under Obamacare, Americans will be required to buy health insurance or pay a penalty to the IRS.

    The IRS’s assumption that the cheapest plan for a family will cost $20,000 per year is found in examples the IRS gives to help people understand how to calculate the penalty they will need to pay the government if they do not buy a mandated health plan.

    The examples point to families of four and families of five, both of which the IRS expects in its assumptions to pay a minimum of $20,000 per year for a bronze plan.

    “The annual national average bronze plan premium for a family of 5 (2 adults, 3 children) is $20,000,” the regulation says.

    Bronze will be the lowest tier health-insurance plan available under Obamacare–after Silver, Gold, and Platinum. Under the law, the penalty for not buying health insurance is supposed to be capped at either the annual average Bronze premium, 2.5 percent of taxable income, or $2,085.00 per family in 2016.

    In the new final rules published Wednesday, IRS set in law the rules for implementing the penalty Americans must pay if they fail to obey Obamacare’s mandate to buy insurance.

    To help illustrate these rules, the IRS presented examples of different situations families might find themselves in…

    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/irs-cheapest-obamacare-plan-will-be-20000-family

  187. November 2, 2009 – “We will not rest until we are succeeding in generating the jobs that this economy needs”

    November 23, 2009 – “I will not rest until businesses are investing again, and businesses are hiring again”

    March 5 2010 – “I’m not gonna rest & my administration is not gonna rest in our efforts to help people who are looking to find a job”

    July 8, 2010 – “My administration will not rest until every American who is able and ready and willing to work can find a job”

    ….Then he shuts down his jobs council after not meeting with them since January of last year.

  188. The cheapest Obamacare plan ($20k) will be 33% higher than current average as reported by Kaiser ($15.7k). IRS also calculates the “penalty” (i.e. tax) for that same family not having insurance will be $2400. What’s the incentive to purchase? This is why we dont pass bills without knowing what is in it.

  189. If you ask me this was intentional. Libs are not known for being overly intelligent, but even they are not this stupid. This was an obvious means to raise additional revenue. This is nothing more than a tax under the guise of trying to help people.

  190. The old saying that talk is cheap can no longer apply to politicians. Every time one opens his mouth it ends up not only costing us all real money but often real freedom.

    Off with their heads!

  191. lmao!
    Last Friday, the Obama campaign fired up its vaunted voter machine and urged supporters to call Congress in support of gun control. The email alert to Obama’s list of more than 20 million supporters was intended to flood Congress with calls in support of the President’s gun control proposals. After a week, it is clear the effort fizzled.

    The Obama campaign’s action alert last week tickled lefty journalists like BuzzFeed’s Ben Smith. The White House stenographer took to twitter to boast about the mobilization.

    Ben Smith: So Messina unleashed the kraken on the congressional switchboard today

    Yeah, not so much.

    Breitbart News talked with a dozen Congressional offices, in both the Senate and the House. None reported any increase in calls as a result of Obama’s action alert. One Senate office said that, in the week since the alert went out, they had received around 20 calls in support of gun control and around 150 in support of gun rights.

  192. MARK LEVIN: What the hell’s happening? Now we’ve backed the Muslim Brotherhood? And then of course, our dear friend Michele Bachmann and Louie Gohmert and three other brave members of the House of Representatives asked questions about the Muslim Brotherhood’s infiltration of our own government and they’re treated like pariahs. Well, the Muslim Brotherhood has infiltrated our government, it’s called Barack Obama. No, he’s not a formal member, he’s a sympathizer. There, I said it. Prove otherwise.

    Meanwhile, you want to look into Obama’s soul? You want to look into his soul? Well, look at his soul. You want to know what I see, Mr. Producer? I see Chuck Hagel. What kind of commander-in-chief would nominate somebody like Chuck Hagel to be Secretary of Defense? I’ll tell you what kind of commander-in-chief, the kind of commander-in-chief that arms the Muslim Brotherhood, Islamonazi regime in Cairo while he’s hallowing out the greatest military force on the face of the earth under his direct command, the United States military. That’s what kind of commander-in-chief [he is].

    http://realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/01/31/mark_levin_the_muslim_brotherhood_has_infiltrated_our_government_its_called_barack_obama.html

    This is the perfect segeu to this article.

    By a vote of 79-19, an amendment to the debt limit bill offered by Senator Rand Paul (R-Ky.) was rejected by the Senate. The Paul amendment would have prohibited the U.S. government from selling F-16 jet fighters, M1A1 tanks, and similar military weapons to the Egyptian government.

    http://MinuteMenNews.com/2013/02/rejected-senate-votes-down-paul-amendment-to-prevent-arms-sales-to-egypt/#ixzz2Jgr4vOPt

  193. Yes, it sucks, Rutherford.

    Our daughter learned she will have a girl today. Unfortunately, the baby’s small nose makes doctors worry about Down’s Syndrome. Everything else is normal, so we will play the waiting game for a while.

    We are where we knew we would be when Obama won. And more people have died after another terrorist attack in Ankara, Turkey.

  194. Egypt has more violence as Obama ignores the liberals who’s rebellion was usurped with our help; We are like the tourists who stood on the beach as the 2004 tsumani swept toward the coast.

  195. The numbers don’t lie.

    20 – the number of F-16 Jets gifted to Egypt.

    77 – the percentage of Americans who saw their taxes go up due to the fiscal cliff deal.

    216,000,000 – the number of dollars gifted to Egypt in state-of-the-art weaponry.

    200 – the number of Abrims battle tanks gifted to Egypt.

    83 – the number of dollars missing from the average persons check each pay period.

    We cannot afford to arm our enemies. Why don’t you Libs seem to care?

  196. Some good news. Should be interesting to see how this plays out.

    Wyoming’s Firearms Protection Act, is “an act relating to firearms; providing that any federal law which attempts to ban a semi-automatic firearm or to limit the size of a magazine of a firearm or other limitation on in this state shall be unenforceable in Wyoming; providing a penalty; and providing for an effective date.” This act nullifies all federal laws made after Jan. 1, 2013.

    “Any official, agent or employee of the United States government who enforces or attempts to enforce any act, order, law, statute, rule or regulation of the United States government upon a personal firearm, a firearm accessory or ammunition that is owned or manufactured commercially or privately in Wyoming and that remains exclusively within the borders of Wyoming shall be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction, shall be subject to imprisonment for not less than one (1) year and one (1) day or more than five (5) years, a fine of not more than five thousand dollars ($5,000.00), or both.”

    http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2013/02/wyoming-house-votes-yes-on-firearms-protection-act-46-13/

  197. New word of the day.

    Ineptocracy

    (in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers. syn- socialism.

  198. James congrats on the new girl. Don’t worry about the medical stuff though I know that is hard. Every single one of us is born with challenges, some more obvious than others. You take it a day at a time.

    It’s bachelor weekend this weekend … me and the two male cats. My damn bout with bronchitis (which is getting better VERY slowly) made it impossible to go with my daughter on an away meet this weekend. So the ladies of the house are off to Collinsville, IL (near St. Louis) while I hold down the fort here.

    I’ll probably spend at least some of tomorrow writing a new piece.

  199. You’re right, it isn’t overly complicated.

    You’ve said we cannot afford to arm our enemy and I asked when Egypt became our enemy. That question remains unanswered.

    Anyone else not seeing my point?

  200. Just seems to me you are trying to manipulate the conversation in an attempt to get me to make some kind of admission. I don’t think anyone here would accuse me of being shy on my opinion so I was asking you to just clearly state what you are looking for.

    Who runs Egypt? The two best organized forces in Egypt today are the military and Islamist organizations.The country’s largest Islamist organization, the Muslim Brotherhood, controls a near majority of parliament. So as we continue to send aid to Egypt, we are by default sending it to the Muslim Brotherhood.

  201. I am not trying to manipulate anything. I am trying to get you to back up your claim that Egypt is an enemy of the US.

    So it’s run by the MB? They aren’t designated as terrorists.

    Egypt’s biggest threat is to Egypt.

    You want to make a fiscal argument against aid, I am right there with you. But it won’t stop with Egypt.

  202. The Brotherhood’s credo was and is, “Allah is our objective; the Quran is our law, the Prophet is our leader; Jihad is our way; and death for the sake of Allah is the highest of our aspirations. The Brotherhood’s English language website describes the principles of the Muslim Brotherhood as including firstly the introduction of the Islamic Shari`ah as “the basis for controlling the affairs of state and society” and secondly, work to unify “Islamic countries and states, mainly among the Arab states, and liberating them from foreign imperialism”

    In an interview on 22 August 2012, Ahmad Sabi’, the Freedom and Justice Party’s media adviser stated that the 1979 Camp David Accords between Egypt and Israel were “a mark of shame upon the Egyptian people.”

    The Egyptian cleric Safwat Higazi spoke at the announcement rally for the Muslim Brotherhood’s candidate Morsi and expressed his hope and belief that Morsi would liberate Gaza, restore the Caliphate of the “United States of the Arabs” with Jerusalem as its capital.

    Label them as you will, they should not be getting our tax dollars.

  203. Thanks Rutherford- and for the encouragement.. Bronchitis can hang around for a long time. You are wise to take care of yourself.

    Our daughter is in Kansas City with friends. Our son- in law has an annual cheesy science fiction movie party, and they invited my wife and me this afternoon. My wife will go shopping. My offering will be “The Ghost Inside” by Broken Bells, and “Seasons of Belief” from Tales from the Dark Side.

    Egypt as a country is separate from the Muslim Brotherhood. Their struggle reminds me of the Bolshevics and Menshivics in Russia. It could evolve into a battle between the White Russians and the Red Russians. The US helped the Whites and also the Reds.

    If we give the new government aid, strong conditions should be attached. Its our money, and if it doesn’t further our interests, we should keep it.

  204. “…they should not be getting our tax dollars.”

    A lot of countries shouldn’t, including some of our so-called “closest allies.”

    “Its our money, and if it doesn’t further our interests, we should keep it.”

    Word.

  205. If you cut aid to Egypt or any other nation, you’d better cut aid to Israel. Israel gets MUCH more from us than Egypt ever has/does. If your fear is radical extremism with a religious flair, you need to really educate yourself better so you don’t speak from ignorance. It seems to me that you are reacting to the louder and more prominent voices of opinion in today’s world.

    Though the state of Israel has a secular and supposedly democratic government, it operates in apartheid. Unless you are Jewish by blood, you will never experience full rights there.

    Among those who practice Judaism, most of the varying sects place the Talmudic teachings over those of the Torah. Many teachings in the Talmud negate those of the Old Testament and allow Jews to operate above the law. These allow/require them to practice racism without condemnation. The condemnation comes by treating outsiders as equals. It essentially states all non Jews are animals put here to serve Jewry. This site shows the Talmudic references in detail.

    http://www.revisionisthistory.org/talmudtruth.html

    In reality, Christians have less to fear from Islam than they do organized Jewry. Jesus is a threat to practicing Jews, whereas Muslims see Jesus as a prophet of God. The Talmud labels Him a sorcerer and His mother whore, among other derogatory statements.

    Of course, mere criticism of anything Israel generally gets one labeled anti-semite or worse.

    The Muslim Brotherhood had/has the blessing of the CIA. If you want to name enemies, you need to consider ALL enemies, foreign and domestic. But maybe first determine what an enemy truly is.

  206. I wondered how long it would take before an anti-Semite showed up to “Blame it all in the Jooooos.” Any discussion of racism brings them out from under rocks sooner or later.

  207. He’s been out from the rock for a long time. But then again….we’re talking about a moron who thinks the Sandy Hook massacre was a government conspiracy. Not much sense comes from the cunt.

  208. As I predicted and ALWAYS used as a means to stifle real truth. If you could objectionable argue facts without false accusation, we could get somewhere – maybe. At least it would show you have an interest in actual knowledge and wherever truth might lead.

  209. Huck
    To say one country does not deserve aid does not express an opinion that I feel all others do. I think there are several countries that are not deserving of our aid. Were you could not say it out loud I will, Israel does.

    Israel is in a unique situation where they have had generational enemies from all sides. They don’t have a vast ocean protecting them like we do. You can fly across their country in 6 minutes. Add to the fact there are more than a handful of countries who state openly they seek the annihilation of the Jewish people and the confiscation of their country. I would love to hear a good argument Huck for removing aid from Israel.

    As far as Egypt being the MB being separate, I am not sure how you separate a country from its government.

    I understand Poolman spends a little time each day praying for the destruction of Israel and the Jewish race, I am not one of those people. Poolman, let us see your outrage at how your party of Islam treats its people, its women in particular. Suffice to say that region, all of that region, has practices that we all find not to our liking.

  210. I found it interesting that even AIPAC opposed Rand Paul’s amendment, citing that it feared removing our aid from Egypt would also remove our influence over Egypt (and no, I am not insinuating Jews or AIPAC run our government. Just pointing out a fact). Similarly, Rand Paul argued that our aid to Israel gives us influence over Israel, when he recently went there and told them we can’t afford them (which I am not so sure how much influence we have over Israel).

    “I would love to hear a good argument Huck for removing aid from Israel.”

    I thought this was a pretty good one….

    “Its our money, and if it doesn’t further our interests, we should keep it.”

    I also thought Rand Paul made a good one (the fiscal part of it, anyway). And, George H.W. Bush made a great one.

    If Israel wants to do its own thing, that’s fine. They are a sovereign nation. I just think that if it isn’t in line with our interests that they pay their own way to do it.

    I don’t think that is too much to ask.

  211. Speaking of “perfect Israel”, the country that can do no wrong and has our unconditional support:

    Apparently they’ve been coercing Ethiopian born Israeli’s to take birth control to limit the population of poor blacks in Israel. You would think that Israel of all places would know that forced birth control is one step from genocide.

    The American press being in the tank for Israel makes it hard to find info on this from the “normal” American sources. I had to go to the bottom of the second page of Google to find the HuffPo link. Haaretz won’t let me read the full article without registering. Anyway, here it is:

    http://www.bioedge.org/index.php/bioethics/bioethics_article/10377

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/israel-admits-ethiopian-women-were-given-birth-control-shots.premium-1.496519

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/28/ethiopian-women-israel-birth-control-shots_n_2567016.html?utm_hp_ref=israel

    Anyone wanna place any bets on how long it will take our government to condemn Israel for the practice?

  212. “Noah, your understanding comes from the likes of Glenn Beck. :roll: Nuff said.”

    Bit of a cop out Poolman, your Liberal masters have taught you well. I don’t think I’ve listen to Glen in 2 months, just havn’t had the time. But it gave you an easy way out so he served his purpose yes?

  213. “Speaking of “perfect Israel”, the country that can do no wrong and has our unconditional support”

    It is a shame when an argument is formulated this way. You know it is so weak and baseless than it cannot stand on its own, and anything after that isn’t worth the time to read or comment on.

    Huck, a vague and overly simplistic response, how about you expand on it.

    What are our interests?

    What are they doing that is against our interests?

    What do you feel we have to gain with the destruction of Israel? Do you feel we might have something to lose were this to occur?

    “Similarly, Rand Paul argued that our aid to Israel gives us influence over Israel”

    I guess something here is eluding me. If we are giving them money, and they need/value that money and do not wish to use it, by default we have influence on them. I think any 5 year old could grasp this concept.

    Still waiting on you and Lurk to own up R. Have someone loan you a set of nuts if yours are not up to the task.

  214. “I guess something here is eluding me. If we are giving them money, and they need/value that money and do not wish to use it, by default we have influence on them. I think any 5 year old could grasp this concept.”

    First, if the comments like this last part keep coming then I will simply end the discussion. I have made it a point not to insult you during this. Please extend the same to me.

    Second, yes it should be an easy concept. Can you explain what influence we have over Israel that is worth billions per year, every year?

    If we had influence over Israel, it would curb its settlement expansion when we ask. It’s been a tacit or specific request from every president since Bush Sr. And every 1 of them has been told to piss off. Yet we still keep sending those checks. Why?

    “What are they doing that is against our interests?”

    Petraeus and other generals have made it clear that Israeli expansion policies put US lives at risk. That makes it against our interests.

    I should add that I am in favor of us helping Israel with the weapons to deal with incoming rockets. But I am not in favor of the massive amount of aid packages to Israel, overall. I am not suggesting we cut them off completely, I’d just like to see less aid, with more say in how it does and doesn’t get used. And I have no problems with that being our aid policy for any country on earth.

  215. Couldn’t be more confused about Rutherford’s birth control beef. Don’t you do the same exact thing here?

    Israel is a modern country. Are most Jews opposed to birth control?

    Poor people taking birth control. Those evil badtards…..

  216. What about coercion do you not understand Rabbit? Did you read any of the links? Did you even actually read my comment or are you reflexively talking smack? It appears some of the women didn’t even know the shot had depo in it.

    If you can’t treat the topic with a minimum of intelligence then just prep for your Super Bowl party and STFU.

  217. Apparently they’ve been coercing Ethiopian born Israeli’s to take birth control to limit the population of poor blacks in Israel.

    Actually it’s a little more sinister than that. They are requiring them to be inoculated and not telling them the inoculations contained contraception. Abby Martin did a segment on that news.

  218. But it gave you an easy way out so he served his purpose yes?

    I have seen you link the Blaze as evidence more times than I can recall. Probably as often as your facebook links. I was giving you an easy out to explain your ignorance, yes. Otherwise, you have no excuse. You obviously made false assumptions about me.

  219. I hope this day is blessed and without any catastrophic evil event, no matter what sinister plans may have already been made.

  220. “If you can’t treat the topic with a minimum of intelligence then just prep for your Super Bowl party and STFU”-R

    Shut the fuck up?

    Damn…you minimum wage mother fuckers sure get testy quick. Hey Rutherford…..I think my battery is dead. I don’t know what to do. Why don’t you tell me over the phone how to fluff this dick so I can give my wife a jump.

  221. “Sorry to burst your bubble Poolman but evil happens somewhere every day of the year. It’s the human condition.”

    It seems like just a couple posts ago we were telling you that exact same thing.

  222. Huck, was not intended as an insult towards you, but rather to highlight what I thought was a more than obvious truth..that said..

    You are making presumptions that I did not state. I made the point that if our money is valued and needed, that by default we have influence. I state this as an empirical truth, not as a statement of our policy.

    If we are giving money to Israel for no other reason than to gain influence, then it is money poorly and foolishly spent in my opinion. I would like to think we are doing it for other more noble reasons, but who knows really? Bottom line is that if their defenses fail, we are not talking about increased tensions or poorer living conditions, we are talking about annihilation. Their enemies are playing for the highest stakes possible. There is no room for error.

    They have offered peace many times. They pulled back and look where it got them. They endure rocket attacks daily, and they are expected to be reasonable? If Canada or Mexico were do to the same to us, would we not react far more harshly than Israel? It is a undeniable truth that if their enemies were to lay down their arms, there would be peace. If Israel were to lay down their arms, they would be dead.

    For the record I think aid can come in two forms, both of which I support but it should be made clear which it is. Aid for specifically stated needs with expectations that it is used for that, or aid to be used as the receiving government sees best suits their needs. Both can be productive given the right set of circumstances.

    Poolman, like R, if you are going to dismiss something based on who delivers over content, that is a type of ignorance I cannot help you with. Like R, work within your own limitations, and I will try in the future to accommodate those limitations.

  223. LOL Rabbit you’re right … us min wage mofo’s have a temper about as short as our pay check.

    you don’t employ coercion for people who can’t afford kids to practice safe sex?

    Again, you’re arguing a different case … you’re ignoring the facts of this case. This wasn’t some bunch of social workers urging poor blacks to f*ck responsibly. This was a bunch of doctors telling Ethiopians they could not immigrate to Israel without getting an inoculation … and in some cases, not telling the women that the inoculation contained a contraceptive. It’s Israel doing population control via coercion and deceit.

    Sounds an awful lot like China and its population control measures which we condemn.

  224. “You are making presumptions that I did not state. I made the point that if our money is valued and needed, that by default we have influence.”

    Rand Paul said our money gives us influence. I made that clear. Then you said…

    “If we are giving them money, and they need/value that money and do not wish to lose it, by default we have influence on them.”

    So you seem to believe we have some form of influence over Israel. All I did was ask what it was. I was not meaning to put words in your mouth.

    “If we are giving money to Israel for no other reason than to gain influence, then it is money poorly and foolishly spent in my opinion.”

    I could not agree more. Since we seem to agree we don’t have much influence over Israel, I guess we can move on.

    “They have offered peace many times.”

    This is a whole different ball of wax.

    Israel has offered peace many times…on their terms. Likewise, those on the other side have offered peace…on their terms. Both sides know that there terms won’t be accepted, which is why they issue those terms.

    “It is a undeniable truth that if their enemies were to lay down their arms, there would be peace. If Israel were to lay down their arms, they would be dead. ”

    That is not an undeniable truth. Israel hasn’t been under any real threat of being overrun in decades. And when it was, we were quick to help. Their enemies, who see themselves as defending their homes, now go after them with homemade weapons, small arms, and rocks. And they are met with tanks and jets that often fire as indiscriminately as the unguided weapons of its enemy.

    I admit, I have never seen an Israeli who has been injured by a Palestinian act of violence. And I am sure there are many. But I have personally seen little kids who bear the burn scars from Israeli bombs. It’s fucked up, man. It tears at the heart.

    “If Canada or Mexico were do to the same to us, would we not react far more harshly than Israel?”

    That is always a valid point. Now, turn the tables and ask yourself if you would react any differently than a Palestinian fighter defending your home from what you perceive as an occupying army that literally tears down your house and forces you to move so that it can build homes for its people….and it isn’t even their land.

    I think our past discussions regarding the 2nd amendment suggest that you would fight very aggressively against such actions. Why should a Palestinian be any different?

    Israel doesn’t treat people in the Palestinian Territories very well. That entire population doesn’t deserve the collective punishment they are getting.

    There are obstructionists to peace on both sides of that coin. The violence by Muslim and Jewish extremists, alike, is a disgrace to humanity. Neither side holds any moral high ground. It is the biggest tragedy of our time.

  225. This one is for Huck but anyone else feel free to chime in:

    Iran has said an attack on Syria will be considered an attack on Iran.
    Israel just attacked Syria.
    Am I connecting the dots wrong or are we looking at some serious potential trouble between Iran and Israel (more than there was already)?

    In other news, how worried should I be about North Korea’s new round of saber rattling?

    P.S. Alfie, if you’re out there, please take a shot at this one too.

  226. “Iran has said an attack on Syria will be considered an attack on Iran. Israel just attacked Syria. Am I connecting the dots wrong or are we looking at some serious potential trouble between Iran and Israel (more than there was already)?”

    You’re connecting the dots right, but I think it’s an empty threat from Iran. They can barely feed themselves, they aren’t in any position to defend Syria or attack someone else.

    History shows Iran will vigorously defend itself, but it doesn’t have much teeth away from home.

  227. You again misread my statement about influence. I was again making a generalized term, not making comment on policy. We have lost a lot of our influence in Israel, a consequence Oblama was more than willing to endure to move HIS agenda forward.

    “Their enemies, who see themselves as defending their homes, now go after them with homemade weapons, small arms, and rocks. And they are met with tanks and jets that often fire as indiscriminately as the unguided weapons of its enemy.

    I admit, I have never seen an Israeli who has been injured by a Palestinian act of violence. And I am sure there are many. But I have personally seen little kids who bear the burn scars from Israeli bombs. It’s fucked up, man. It tears at the heart.”

    Lets keep it real. First, you cannot be considered defending your home when you are initiating an offensive action. Second, they are initiating these attacks in the midst of their civilian population, from the roof tops of homes. This is done to illicit sympathy from the world community for the civilian casualties. As you can see it has worked.

    “Now, turn the tables and ask yourself if you would react any differently than a Palestinian fighter defending your home”..and the rest of that paragraph.

    Remind me, who were the countries who decided decades ago to attack Israel? Did Israel instigate this attacks or were they themselves targeted and on the defensive? IMO, if you go in to try to overthrow a sovereign nation, and while doing so lose some of your own land, that is the price you pay for starting a war. Those lands are no longer yours.

    Jewish history for centuries is filled with attempts to exterminate their population. If I were surrounded by countries who openly state they want to see me made extinct, I would not be very cordial to any of them. I really do not have a hard time understanding their position. I share it. If you want better relations, you start by stopping the attacks. Until such time, they are not deserving of any sympathy or consideration.

    If you can show me a time where Israel attacked without having been provoked, and did so out of malice or to concur or to exterminate a race, then I will hear and share your sympathy.

  228. If you want perspective on the Israel question, simply do a thought experiment:

    What would happen if all the Muslim countries around Israel disarmed tonight? answer: nothing.

    What would happen if Israel disarmed tonight? answer: annihilation.

    I, for one, am glad we have hitched our wagon to Israel’s star. Nice to back a winner for once. The Israelis accomplish more on a good Thursday afternoon than the Arabs have since the Crusades. The Jews are going somewhere; the Islamists surrounding them still live in the sixth century, and are dedicated to seeing that everyone else does, too.

    You can’t kill them fast enough. Thank God the Israelis, at least, understand that – even if a lot of Americans don’t.

  229. Thanks for quoting me, Huck.

    I do think that when we give money through other than humanitarian reasons we should get some value for our investment.its true they are sovereign nations who make their own decisions, but they should consider our needs too. Sometimes, a nation’s presence benefits us whether or not it follows our international policy decisions.

    How would the political dynamic in the Middle East change if Israel were gone and extremist Muslims dominated the region? On the other hand, how many extremists would hate the United States if Israel no longer existed? Some of them cited our support for Israel for the 9/11 attacks. If they weren’t lying do the benefits out weigh the debits? I think they do, but it is a close call.

    I knew someone who was injured by Palistinians. She posted on a long-dead message board. She was 19. A year earlier, a suicide bomber blew himself up in a restaurant, and the girl was nearly killed. She spent several months in the hospital and in therapy for her leg. Later, she enlisted and stopped writing.

  230. Rutherford, I didn’t read the links. My apologies.

    Huff Post said the following: “A documentary that aired in December on Israel’s Educational Network also shed new light on the reports.”

    That is exactly why I back Israel. This is being discussed on their own government TV channel. An injustice debated in the public forum. Quite an oddity in the middle east. Assad’s Daddy killed 30,000 people next door around the same time (maybe a decade later). I’m thinking that was never discussed much on Syrian state TV. And what do you know, Assad Jr. has doubled the amount murdered.

    Government wrongs people everywhere, all the time.

    Free people discuss this shit. Slaves don’t.

    30 or 40 people injected with birth control pales in comparison to what we injected black people with in the 50’s. For you to drop the genocide bomb on this is laughable, considering your take on abortion.

    Want to know why you can’t find much on it? Because its not a story.

    If you want to paint Israel in a bad light, there are other ways to do it, because you failed here miserably. I would concentrate on the 10 percent of Jews who are religious fanatics.

  231. “I admit, I have never seen an Israeli who has been injured by a Palestinian act of violence.” Huck

    Of course you haven’t. You go to college. The most slanted place on earth outside of Hamas headquarters.

    The Arabs purposely kill women and children. They also purposely hide where women and children are. Oh….the Arabs actually use children in the intifada.

    I’m not saying the collateral damage by the hands of Israelis isn’t horrifying or that there were times where it couldn’t have been prevented.

    But damn, I suggest you read about the Ma’alot Massacre as a starting point.

    In 2001 the Arabs blew up a teenage disco killing 100 plus teenagers. I could go on and on. You invite a moronic tit for tat discussion, but I guess it’s needed. As a professor, I expect less ignorance.

  232. I’m actually not trying to make a point here…..just thought the photo was cool. I*’m sure poolman will point out that its fake snow.

  233. “Neither side holds any moral high ground.”

    It seems one side does with you. I’m not trying to be an asshole here, but when you freely admit that you have never saw the casualties of Israeli children (why you haven’t asked yourself why that is is beyond me), wax on about only Israeli aggression while painting the Palestinians as mere defenders and then only lament the fact that the Israelis use over bearing force when its the Arabs who purposely target non combatants…you’ve clearly taken a side.

    A footnote at the end saying “neither side doesn’t hold moral ground” after pointing out nothing but moral ground for one side doesn’t make sense to me. Particularly from an academic.

  234. lol. Naw. Looks like real snow to me, rabbit. Like the skeet picture, it’s all about the image. Who took the photo? I bet the camera is government issue.

  235. Rutherford,@313: you might want to read further on the Israel-Depo-Provera controversy. There are always two sides to every story. No statistics have been reported but I feel sure Depo-Provera is the birth control of choice for women in Israel and apparently is free. It is not a form of sterilization since the drug life is only three months. Apparently some Ethiopian women prefer this form rather than a daily pill in cases of disapproval of their culture. I am sure there were women that did not understand what they were offered and thought they were getting some form of inoculation which they did not question.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100200874/how-true-is-it-that-israel-deceitfully-gave-ethiopian-jews-birth-control-injections/

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-changes-birth-control-policy-for-ethiopian-immigrants/

  236. “First, you cannot be considered defending your home when you are initiating an offensive action.”

    You are aware of the concept of the settlements, yes? How is the person losing their home to an Israeli bulldozer initiating the action?…by existing?

    “Second, they are initiating these attacks in the midst of their civilian population, from the roof tops of homes.”

    Yes they are, and that is wrong of them. It is also wrong to drop a 500 lb. bomb on that home.

    “Remind me, who were the countries who decided decades ago to attack Israel?”

    No problem. Egypt, Syria, Iraq, and Jordan. Shall I also remind you that I was talking about Palestinians, not the Arab states? Those countries got what they deserved. Palestinians don’t deserve what they are getting.

    “What would happen if all the Muslim countries around Israel disarmed tonight? answer: nothing.”

    Can I not make it clear enough? I am not talking about Muslim COUNTRIES. When talking about the Palestinians, I can just as easily make the same defenseless argument.

    ” The Jews are going somewhere; the Islamists surrounding them…”

    Not all of the are Islamists, but I guess it makes it easier to justify their slaughter by lumping them all together into the boogieman category.

    “You invite a moronic tit for tat discussion”

    I was actually trying to be balanced in order to avoid such a moronic discussion. Did you not notice that I said “violence by Muslim and Jewish extremists”?

    “In 2001 the Arabs blew up a teenage disco killing 100 plus teenagers. I could go on and on.”

    Yeah, I could go on with examples of Israeli/Jewish extremist violence, too. But as you noted, it is senseless tit-for-tat discussion. I am more interested in getting beyond that and on to possible solutions.

    “why you haven’t asked yourself why that is is beyond me”

    It’s a simple answer…because I don’t know any Israelis.

    “A footnote at the end saying “neither side doesn’t hold moral ground” after pointing out nothing but moral ground for one side doesn’t make sense to me. Particularly from an academic.”

    That’s only because I take a stand that isn’t yours. You seem to want to place blame in 1 direction, while I place it in both directions.

    “its the Arabs who purposely target non combatants”

    Maybe you can use your military expertise to explain to me how an unguided rocket is used to purposely target anyone.

    (That will of course be used to now say that I think its OK to use unguided rockets and blah blah blah.)

    “I’m not saying the collateral damage by the hands of Israelis isn’t horrifying or that there were times where it couldn’t have been prevented.”

    Looks like we’re in agreement. The damage done by both sides is horrific. See how easy that was?

    Like Raji says in the post above…there are always 2 sides to a story. I am just trying to let the other one be heard here. The one you folks like to ignore or discount with arguments about Islamists and Arab states. That doesn’t mean I am ignorant of the 1 side, or that I am cheerleading for the other.

  237. “This is being discussed on their own government TV channel. An injustice debated in the public forum.”

    Israel is better about airing its own problems than we are about airing Israel’s problems. Their free press is awesome. The Arab states have a lot to learn about freedoms, for sure. As do the people in general. Like I had previously mentioned, I had a tough time explaining the merits and concepts of the right to free speech to some of the ones I know.

  238. Just to be clear…because it seems there are some misconceptions about what I said and meant…

    When I said I have never seen an injured Israeli but have seen injured Palestinians, I am not talking about pictures or films. Those I have seen. And since it also seems that if I don’t actually mention something that I am not being balanced…those images tear at the heart, too.

    I am talking about meeting someone and talking to them.

  239. “That’s only because I take a stand that isn’t yours.”

    Exactly…you are taking a stand. The question is why that stand? Because you “know” Arabs in the history department at school? Because you enjoy the baklava and the Orientalist pleasures at their weddings? In other words, you have been intellectually bribed?

    Or, are you trying to say you knew the Palestinian children who were harmed?

    Please explain.

  240. “Maybe you can use your military expertise to explain to me how an unguided rocket is used to purposely target anyone”

    I have no military experience in rockets.

    Israel hits military targets. They don’t snipe babies in wagons as their mothers walk them to school. They don’t purposely blow up clubs of Arab teenagers. You don’t see the difference? Sadly, Gaza is the most densely populated place on Earth and the Arabs hide amongst women and children. They also constantly lie about casualties.

  241. “I am talking about meeting someone and talking to them.”

    Well….that does help. That being said, if the Athenian writer Thucydides could refrain from letting emotion sway his objectivity during the Peloponnesian War 23 hundred years ago, you need to do so as well, or you are in the wrong business, friend.

    Your a political scientist/historian….act like one.

  242. “I am just trying to let the other one be heard here. The one you folks like to ignore or discount with arguments about Islamists and Arab states.”

    So are you trying to say you have been playing devils advocate and have yet to state what you really think? If not it seems to me your self admitted ignorance of events from an Israeli perspective leave you far from being objective.

    As Rabbit said, they purposefully target civilians when they are not lobbing rockets in. It is impossible, without the risk of a lot of casualties(explain to me why they should take this risk) to enter in and surgically strike a target that hides with the women and children. Their military’s duty, first and foremost, is to defend THEIR people. The fact their enemy uses their own people as human shields is shame on THEM, not on Israel for defending itself.

  243. I notice in the extensive criticism I have received since my apparently controversial comment, not one has bothered to address the issue of settlements and illegal Israeli expansion policies…which were really the basis of my position, as if I didn’t make that perfectly clear.

    “Your a political scientist/historian….act like one.”

    I did. That is why I acknowledged both sides multiple times throughout my comment. Not just at the end, as was claimed.

    “Israel hits military targets. They don’t snipe babies in wagons as their mothers walk them to school. They don’t purposely blow up clubs of Arab teenagers”

    Israeli extremists assassinate their leaders and go on shooting sprees in mosques. Muslim extremists blow up buses and clubs. Both are wrong. I said as much. How many times must I repeat myself?

    “Their military’s duty, first and foremost, is to defend THEIR people.”

    Yes. And they defend their people even when their people are living on land that has been virtually stolen from others. Land that is outside the recognized borders of Israel. I have no problems with Israel defending Israel and Israelis that live in it. That is why I have no problems with helping Israel with the anti-rocket stuff. My big problem is the continued grab of Palestinian lands outside of Israel. As I mentioned above, that continues to be overlooked in this discussion.

    “Please explain.”

    The stand I have tried to show here attempts to see and understand both sides of the coin. Your stand, from what I can tell, sees only 1 side. I apologize that I have not posted 25 page comments that completely articulate every facet of my understanding on both sides of the issue. I will try to do better to correct my brevity to suit you. I just hope my professors understand why my work won’t be turned in on time.

    And by understand, I do not mean acceptance of. I am sure you can all fathom the difference between the 2 if you attempt to. I cannot help it if you don’t make that attempt.

    See you all in a few days. I am not meaning to run from the current topic but I do have a busy week ahead and this has become somewhat a distraction from what I need to get done. Especially when I have to repeat myself and get even more long-winded that I already am so that I am not accused of ignorance. My apologies if I have misread or misinterpreted anyone’s positions or comments. Take care everyone, in the meantime.

  244. I do not begrudge you because you disagree, just a fyi. I like debate.

    My big problem is the continued grab of Palestinian lands outside of Israel. As I mentioned above, that continues to be overlooked in this discussion.

    “Please explain.”

    Tactical move IMO..take enough land outside your border so that these rocket attacks cannot reach into the city.

  245. re 355… A tactical move to inhibit rocket attacks? That is crazy talk. If you steal land and build houses on it, how is that a buffer zone? If you specifically target journalists and rescue helpers, what does that say about your integrity? If you have no formal constitution or accepted state borders, what does that say about your intent?

    I have heard plenty of reasons to justify and defend Zionism. It is racism, pure and simple. Some of its harshest critics are Jews themselves. So Zionism labels them ‘self-hating’. :roll:

  246. Right. Don’t look now, your ignorance is hanging out everywhere.

    Umm, the girl in your link was raped by her 40 year old married cousin. Then she was beaten and subsequently died 6 days later. After her body was exhumed and a second autopsy performed, the reason was deemed she bled to death. They have the 40 year old in custody and he could be charged with murder. Of course this was a year ago, so he may have already been sentenced.

    So explain to me who you have no sympathy for?

  247. 100 years ago today, enough states ratified the 16th amendment that it became the law of the land. And it has been a downhill race ever since…

  248. Dude that abducted five year old kid and took him to bunker is dead. Kid is ok. The spin is out already that the dude was a doomsday survivalist and anti-government.

    Perp profiles in the first 24 hours are almost always wrong. We’ll have to see if we ever get a fuller picture of the sick f*ck. Apparently the standoff was a good week … starting when he killed a school bus driver and then took the kid.

    Are we entering some new Dickensian age in which being a kid is no longer childlike?

  249. “Ensconced in the snow, his white camouflage suit rendering him invisible to the invading Soviet soldiers he stalked, Simo Hayha steadied himself to fire”.

    During the 1939-1940 Winter War in temperatures as low as -40 C, the Sami-Finish sniper single-handedly killed at least 700 men in less than 100 days. He shot over 500 with a standard, bolt-action with non-telescopic sights. He used a simple sight so no one could see a reflection. He could also keep his head lower, and more complex sights might fog up or break in the cold.

    Hayha killed over 200 men with a machine gun.

    The Soviets called him the White Death and devoted many of their resources to destroying him. They eventually shot off half of his face, but he survived to the age of ninety- six. Simo Hayha accumulated more kills than any one soldier in modern history.
    He was only five feet three inches tall.

    Remembrance Sunday,Once I was a soldier on youtube video is a good British tribute no (one will watch) to the once young men who saved us so we could throw away our freedoms piecemeal. We are hardly aware they existed.

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