Insulting Voters — The GOP Leaves no Stone Unturned

200px-Wheelchair_symbol_mailto_02.svgDuring the just completed campaign season, the Grand Old Party managed to deliberately or accidentally insult virtually every voting block. They deliberately insulted women (running the likes of Todd Akin and Richard Murdock) and Hispanics (with Mitt’s self-deportation strategy toward illegal immigration). They inadvertently insulted a slew of minorities including veterans with Romney’s 47% statement.

Just when you thought the Republican party had run out of people to alienate, they’ve gone after the last remaining voting block, the often ignored American disabled. Last week the Senate was asked to ratify a United Nations treaty which would spread the laudable standard of our Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) around the world. When the time came for Republicans to promote the greatest advance in disabled civil rights to the world stage, they incredibly declined. They declined in spite of the fact that wounded war veteran and respected elder statesman Bob Dole was on the floor of the Senate, in his wheelchair no less,  to urge the body to ratify the treaty.

What was their reasoning? Pure insanity but I’ll use their words — they feared it would threaten US sovereignty. Former presidential candidate and full-time crackpot Rick Santorum (whose daughter is severely disabled) warned against ratification citing a fear that the U.N. would interfere with home schooling and other decisions revolving around child rearing.

I also oppose CRPD because our nation has been the worldwide leader when it comes to protecting the disabled. We should be telling the U.N., not the other way around, how to ensure dignity and respect for the disabled. — Santorum: U.N. Disabilities Treaty Would’ve Had Bureaucrats Unseat Parents

Ehhhhh, what the hell is Rick talking about? The treaty is patterned after our ADA. It seeks to spread our ADA standards to other countries. In essence, we are “telling the U.N., not the other way around.”

This is yet another chapter in the saga of the nutjob contingent of the GOP bringing shame to this venerable party. But there is light at the end of the tunnel. John Boehner has finally found a pair and is kicking folks off their preferred committee assignments based on past voting patterns. While that doesn’t help matters in the Senate it does give some hope that Boehner is going to grab control from House loonies where the Republicans have a majority. Now if Harry Reid can ram through filibuster reform, perhaps we can all “get our country back.”

Respectfully,
Rutherford

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441 thoughts on “Insulting Voters — The GOP Leaves no Stone Unturned

  1. I have no idea what your talking about. But, I will assume you saw something on MSNBC and I will also assume there is another side to the story.

    I do know this. Going out to get a doctor to write some bull shit up about how you suffer from the “disablility” of ADD and no longer have to turn in homework, take notes or various other responsibilities has made the classroom a joke. You don’t even have to qualify as special ed. Just have mommy get a doctor’s note and get what is called a 504 plan.

    1/3 of my class now operate under a totally different set of rules. I can’t imagine the implications this will have on our future.

  2. I have no idea what your talking about.

    OK, you’re off to a good start. Did I write the post in Spanish? I thought I made it very clear what I’m talking about. Turn on the news or read a paper … the story isn’t that obscure.

    I will also assume there is another side to the story.

    There’s another side to every story. F*ck, there’s another side to Hitler’s story. Your point is? For the other side, click on the link next to the Santorum quote and you can get his full side of the story.

    I don’t doubt that you’ve seen ADA abused. But I am here to tell you ADA has made MY life a hell of a lot easier. Something as simple as curb cuts make it possible for me to be independent. Knowing that I can get into just about any public building puts my mind at ease big time.

    Think beyond your conservative bubble. I know it’s heavy lifting but you’ve got the guns for it.

  3. “They inadvertently insulted” represents to my mind, Rutherford’s open mindedness and ego strength to adjust his views. He and I discussed the subtext of 47 % and I think “inadvertently” represents his seeing my side of the discussion. I certainly acknowledged his side. Opposing Congresspeople do the same thing during their debates

    That illustrates my objection to changing filibuster rules the way Democrats want to. Tyrany of the majority makes bargaining like our little negotiation over 47% less likely when opposing lawmakers trade horses.

    Sofia Jannok touched on such heavy-handed majority dictatorship..

  4. 4 NBC Southern California:” A major facet of the state’s economy, the agriculture industry has been affected by fewer undocumented immigrants crossing the border,deterred from coming to the US because of high unemployment and a developing middle class in Mexico.”

    Illegal immigrants don’t belong here because they are breaking the law. Isn’t letting them move back home more humane and cheaper than rounding them up and deporting them? What would you do? Do you have a better plan?

  5. But I am here to tell you ADA has made MY life a hell of a lot easier.

    The last part is all he really cares about, all Liberals really care about. It is not about hard work and achieving success by earning it. It is about making life as easy as possible. To make someone work hard, and suffer through the hard times coming out a winner at the end is cruel, didn’t you know?

  6. IMO R is being short sighted, but this is nothing new. What Oblama is doing is the same type of politics he has been doing the past 4 years. Looking for ways to circumvent the Constitution to get his agenda passed. Fuck the UN and Fuck Oblama. Oblama is trying to set precedent one act at a time until eventually the UN policies trump the Constitution. The UN has NO BUSINESS dictating how we do ANYTHING in this country in any shape form or fashion. Dishonest fucks like R claim that Republicans are against the disabled when they are actually standing up defending our way of life. Paint the patriots as villains. R, you have learned your Nazi style propaganda well.

  7. Speaking of people who put malicious links on their websites, Anyone else get a virus alert on the blogroll when they click Sensico?

  8. I don’t know the full story behind this subject. I do know we rejected making the disabilities act a global standard, even though it was patterned after our own adopted rules and regulations.

    I’m really done with global laws and feel we need to concentrate on our local communities. We ignore the global rules we don’t want to follow anyway. We have given the UN too much control over all of our lives. This is one more attempt to establish a ‘one size fits all’ global governing system. This hurts the poor communities that cannot afford to comply with globally devised standards, some of which may not be even be necessary or apply to their citizens.

    Shouldn’t the real goal for humanity be to eliminate disabilities rather than establish a world that accommodates them as a normality? This path isn’t as unsympathetic as one might perceive. Isn’t it a form of lowering the bar, something we have done with all our institutions in one form or another?

    As one that does not have a physical disability, I cannot speak from the perspective of one who does, but I think there is a point where it can be taken to extremes.

    For instance, let’s take the wheelchair ramp in particular. Ramps are provided (and required in the USA) for handicap access into public buildings. This is easy enough to plan and accomplish with new construction. But this same thing is difficult and often costly to retrofit in an existing building, yet these laws FORCE compliance. I think this forced compliance may be too much for some struggling communities to afford. Wouldn’t it make better sense to invent a wheel chair that climbs stairs and therefore enables the handicapped person the ability to normalize his/her life all the more in all communities?

  9. That illustrates my objection to changing filibuster rules the way Democrats want to.

    James, right now we have what is known as the “silent filibuster”. It’s total BS. I am all for preserving the filibuster. I am all for protecting the ability of the minority party to debate. I just say it needs to be done Jimmy Stewart style. If you wanna filibuster, then you show up, stand up, and don’t sit down until you’re finished.

  10. “Looking for ways to circumvent the Constitution to get his agenda passed.” -N

    This process didn’t follow the Constitution?

    “Paint the patriots as villains.” – Is Bob Dole a patriot? A Republican? A slacker?

    “1/3 of my class now operate under a totally different set of rules. I can’t imagine the implications this will have on our future.” – DR

    Rabbit, are you saying all kids should be taught the same, no matter what their ability, their background, their resources?

  11. Isn’t letting them move back home more humane and cheaper than rounding them up and deporting them?

    Who’s for stopping them from leaving of their own accord? Self-deportation as Romney envisioned it involved making life so miserable for them that they ran back home. That is very different from their making an assessment that they actually would be better off in Mexico than here due to improved conditions back home. No one is saying “please, undocumented worker, don’t go!!!!”

  12. Poolman your comment is an interesting mix of smart and stupid. Let’s get the stupid out of the way first. There is no such thing as wiping out all disabilities. It’s never going to happen. The human body is prone to malfunction … it’s a complicated instrument in which all sorts of things can go wrong. Humans run the gamut in abilities. Some athletic and genius. Others athletic and morons (like some of the kids Rabbit has to accommodate). Others with bodies that don’t perform per spec but with minds quite sharp (if I do say so myself). Our goal as a humane society is to accommodate ALL these types of people.

    Now to the smart part of your comment. I agree that accommodation should be done in an intelligent way. If we can make stair climbing wheelchairs (I think I’ve seen prototypes), that is certainly something we should pursue. If we can invent devices that accommodate the disabled body to the non disabled environment, I agree that is preferable to altering the environment to fit every sort of body.

    With that said, I’ll take what I can get. Curb cuts and ramps rock!

    P.S. I swear I once encountered a ramped entrance to a building that led to a stairwell. :lol:

  13. Noah@7, you have achieved a personal best by your attack on Rutherford regarding his needs as a disable person.

  14. From the prior thread via Raji:

    Alfie, I too shudder at the future prospects because as you stated they will be created/discovered. They say history repeats itself but I don’t see the quality of Statesmen we have known due to concepts of greed, entitlements, et al.

    I think we are saying two different things here. Of course future prospects will be created/discovered. How else do we find them? Sarah Palin was discovered. Are you saying that you want some elder statesman to take the reins? Our current hunger for extremism sends all the elder statesmen out to pasture.

    But even if an established candidate emerges on the GOP side, he or she will still reinvent themselves somewhat to make themselves appear a better fit for POTUS. Every candidate does that methinks.

    As for your shot at social studies, I think your City Journal author over complicates things. He unearthed all this esoterica with socialist overtones while I don’t recall being taught anything particularly harmful in elementary school in the late 60’s nor do I perceive anything all that terrible coming home in daughter’s backpack from day to day. Maybe you could distill the article for me? Are we saying social studies has become boring? Has it emphasized society over the individual? If so, what is wrong with instilling in youngsters some sense of civic duty and membership in a cooperative society? I guess I just don’t get it.

  15. Rutherford, Romney suggested that legal visitors would have a transition period wherein they could work here. Papers would give them that right.

    After the documents expired, they could go home and apply for legal residency. The government would take steps to make employment much harder for those who’s permits expired or for people here illegally.

    He also said some people brought here illegally as children could become citizens after joining the military. I don’t see much difference between the government’s making life miserable or the economy’s making life miserable for illegals. One is policy. The other is a consequence of life. Both produce the results we want.

    Mexico is less kindly toward its illegals than we are.

    How would you move illegals out of the country?

  16. 19
    His needs are not the point. Just because somethings need to be taken care of does not excuse doing it the wrong way. Doing something that has a secondary effect that is good, while its primary effect is bad, is still bad. I believe Oblama’s goal is to have the UN run us. To have their policies supersede ours. At the very least dictate to us what we can have as polices that do not violate those set by the UN. The tail will soon wag the dog.

  17. A Jimmie Stewart style filibuster has a long history. I think Strom Thurmond and Robert Byrd were champions. I would support the stand up form of obstruction if the speakers were allowed to work in shifts to tie up the Senate.

    One lone speaker can do little except delay proceedings for a day or so.

    The Democrats shut Republicans and also many of themselves from important debate over the affordable health care law. A good silent or shift filibuster might have forced Democrats into producing a law which attracted some Republicans and given us a shorter law that people actually read.

    I have to quit now. I don’t get nose bleeds but blood is spewing down my throat, onto the floor and everywhere else. My wife said life with me is an adventure, and she said “He is back on the computer, so I guess he’s going to live.” to a friend who was on the phone with me when the bleeding started. We are supposed to attend a Christmas party tonight. Don’t worry. I am fine.

  18. Thor, half of these 504’s are total bull shit. I don’t think it’s fair that two kids receive the same grade for the same class under a total different set of expectations.

    That being said, I don’t have a problem with accommodating students with true disabilities. Modifying curriculum is a different story. I should’t have to do it. That’s what I end up having to do with many of the autistic ones. Despite the fraud of it all, It doesn’t bother me or the class as much because everyone can tell student so and so is autistic. But the smart ass with a mommy who ensured he no longers has to write or have dead lines because Dr. Asshole robo signs ADHD diagnosis slips? It’s terrible.

  19. I can’t argue with much of 25. Who likes corruption? DR, you’re describing corruption.

    Modifying curriculum is a different story. I should’t have to do it.

    Just to be clear, is it YOU that really has to alter the curriculum or do you get handed a different curriculum to teach to the autistic kids? If it’s the former, that seems to me a pretty heavy workload to drop in your lap.

  20. Rutherford, I was aware of the UN situation regarding the ADA. I could not determine why or what the political manifestations were behind our not ratifying the treaty. In many cases we tend to act like we are not part of the UN but an advisory board for lack of a better term. It appears to me if we already have a successful ADA we would be an beacon of light for other countries to follow.

    “Shouldn’t the real goal for humanity be to eliminate disabilities rather than establish a world that accommodates them as a normality?”

    Yes, in a perfect world just as our real goal should be to eliminate cancer. There are many disabilities that come about from accidents. Remember Christopher Reeves? How do we eliminate those situations?

    Yes, Rutherford, you are a slacker just like Superman ;-)

  21. There are many disabilities that come about from accidents. Remember Christopher Reeves? How do we eliminate those situations?

    Yes, Rutherford, you are a slacker just like Superman ;-)

    And let’s not forget what a moocher Stephen Hawking has been. ;-)

    Besides accidents, we all get old. There will come time when Poolman will want to take the elevator instead of the stairs.

  22. Raji, this UN thing comes down to the nutjobs in this country convinced that a “one-world-government” is in the making and that one day we will be answering to a “global leader” or “global emperor” or something of that nature.

    We were instrumental in the formation of the United Nations and now some of us diss them at every turn. It’s beyond silly.

  23. They are, indeed, nutjobs. These are the sort of easily led, uninformed people, who listen to Beck and people like him. They seize on “scary” and manufactured terms like “regime,” or “socialist” without understanding them. And they announce what people such as the President intend to do, which invariably validates their conspiracy theories. This sort of silliness comes from both sides of the aisle and it detracts from the debate.

    p.s. A sure sign of one of the nut jobs is that they will parrot and endlessly repeat a not-too-clever word like “Oblama” or “your Messiah.” The really dumb ones then accuse liberals (aka “Libs” or “Dims”) of being susceptible to “propaganda,” never recognizing their own mindless aping.

  24. Re James @24
    “The issue today isn’t that we see 50, or 100, or 150 filibusters. It’s that the filibuster is a constant where it used to be a rarity. Indeed, it shouldn’t even be called “the filibuster”: It has nothing to do with talking, or holding the floor. It should be called the 60-vote requirement. It applies to everything now even when the minority does not specifically choose to invoke it.”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/post/the-history-of-the-filibuster-in-one-graph/2012/05/15/gIQAVHf0RU_blog.html

  25. Not only do I not get handed down new curriculum, I essentially claim they have met the state standards everyone else has to.

    I have autistic kids who pace around the room and can’t write their name. Supposedly, I am only to accommodate them as per individualized educational plan or 504 so that they can learn the same objectives as everyone else. My passing grade in the class tells the world they have.

    In reality I modify things big time and then allow the school to lie.

  26. By the way, I don’t have anything against the ADA. I just don’t know how I feel about the UN getting involved with our society, even if they are copying what we do.

  27. Last year was worse but our union got involved and improved things. Last year over half my class didn’t have to take notes or turn homework on time. The unfairness of it all was mind blowing.

  28. “Yes, absolutely. For four generations conservatives have been hysterical about the loss of American sovereignty because of first the League of Nations and then the United Nations. But the real threat to American sovereignty comes from transnational corporations who have assembled themselves into transnational institutions like the World Trade Organization, and can now overturn laws passed by federal and state legislatures.” – Thom Hartmann

    All this whining about the UN going after our guns or taking over the US is amazing. They complain the UN can not accomplish anything and we should leave it but fear it is powerful enough to over take the US. Can they not see the contradiction in these two statements??

  29. There is no such thing as wiping out all disabilities. It’s never going to happen.

    Pessimist! Where’s your vision? Where’s your confidence in science and technology? :lol: Actually I don’t think it is a goal for the entire race. Some would consider humanity itself a disability. Others are determined to keep it that way.

    I just think it crazy to try to make everyone pay for and comply with what constitutes a minority’s needs. Smarter design would accommodate the needs of all. It costs no more to provide ramps in curbs when planned from the start.

    If I was in charge of wheel chairs they’d be hover craft.

  30. My daughter owns a real estate brokerage. A few years ago she bought a building (house) for an office from a chiropractor. Building dept. told her she must have a ramp or lift. Ramp was not possible due to space so a $16,000 lift was put in. The only use it has gotten is once a week someone pushes the button to make sure it works. While I agree everyone should have access. In this business the agent can accommodate a client at their home or across the street at the bakery with WiFi and buy him lunch as well. A little common sense should be used at times.

  31. Rutherford you’re out of line with your partisan faux outrage. Calm down pole pet of Pavlov.
    Text of Convention HERE
    Senate vote 61 -38 with 8 of those 38 being Republicans meaning the 61 contains (D)’s Not a lot of talk about that anywhere including this weak shill post.
    Bottom line we have the ADA and do not need the international feel good shit that would be strewn with national/cultural loopholes and cost the US tax payer untold sums. Although one could question Santorums sanity on the matter equally one could credibly play up how weak John could be Sec of StateKerry babbles were.
    Under no stretch of the imagination could any sane person credit R with a passing grade on this post.Under no circumstance can or should anyone think further abdications to the UN and the Federation mindset be the right course for the United States of America.

  32. I apologize on the roll call comment. My initial source had it backwards…bastards. mea culpa,chardonnay go with crow?
    Still this treaty as well as the treaty of the seas is not worth our energy or support

  33. lurker 38 offers an oversimplified construct. The UN is very influential and easily pushes a number of snowballs into avalanche mode. It is not unlike the transnationals mentioned great at creating the pains and angst that are politely termed unintended consequences.

  34. Rutherford @ 20…
    FWIW Palin was discovered but not created. Deval Patrick and Barack Obama represent creation,molding. This goes beyond the usual polishing of a candidate.
    As for social studies. It is a reality in many textbooks that extreme drivers create them. In science and a number of other subjects we as a nation get stuck with books adopted by just two states and by that even sadder by a mere handful of folks on assorted boards (TX & CA btw). In the social science arena there is an undeniable record of apologist presentations and anti-USA tinged dogma. In math a whole curricula was created not by the School of Mathematics but by the Education college. D-I-S-A-S-T-E-R. (Chicago math btw)
    my sources on this are impeccable

  35. The WTO is nothing more then a forum, really. I guess you could say they can over turn laws regarding products that are being exported or tariffs. Am I missing anything?

    The vile and corrupt UN getting involved with how we as a country deem handicapped people? No thanks.

    Alfie summed it up best. Dollars to doughnuts Rutherford practically plagiarized this steamy pile from one douchebag editorial he saw somewhere. While I think Noah was wrong headed busting on Rutherford’s defense of ADA, Rutherford’s bait and switch, using the ADA in an appeal to emotion, was wack too.

    I’m all for Rutherford being accommodated within reason. Doesn’t mean I want the UN to be an authority on it in any way. And as Alfie points out….many Dems see it the same way. Interesting they didn’t make it in this garbage blog post.

  36. In reality I modify things big time and then allow the school to lie.

    The worst part if I understand you Rabbit, is that the kid loses in this scam. Can I correctly assume that the modifications you make to the curriculum don’t really increase the learning of these autistic kids?

  37. Last year over half my class didn’t have to take notes or turn homework on time.

    I think I mentioned this on the blog before but I’ll repeat it here … because so many kids in my daughter’s class were not turning in their spelling homework, the teacher stopped requiring that they turn it in. I could not believe my eyes when I saw this. One of the excuses given was “I know you parents are busy with your kids in after school activities so I don’t want to burden you with the extra homework.” WTF??? Since when did after school activities trump learning the 3 R’s in school?

    And to my knowledge, not one child in my daughter’s class is autistic or learning disabled.

  38. Lurker, I’d take Thom Hartman’s comment and go a step further. Multinational corporations have been a bigger threat to the American way of life than the UN could ever be. Outsourcing has ruined the middle class.

  39. In this business the agent can accommodate a client at their home or across the street at the bakery with WiFi and buy him lunch as well.

    He can but would he? Basically you’re asking the disabled to rely on the kindness of strangers. Mandatory access replaces the need for charity.

    Don’t get me wrong. I understand how absurd these requirements might seem in certain cases (like your agent). That’s why the government should subsidize these retro-fits whenever possible so it’s no skin off the building owner’s nose.

  40. Not sure I appreciate the plagiarism accusation Rabbit. I write my own sh*t and cite where I don’t. El Tigre has complained ad nauseum my predilections for covering stories that MSNBC has covered. Sue me. I happened to have found out about this one from my radio co-host Sandi. Then, I did some reading and heard more about it on MSNBC.

  41. Alfie and Rabbit come off sounding like a couple of one-world-government paranoids.

    Very simple … please cite for me any specific case where the United Nations trumped United States laws or law enforcement.

  42. And as Alfie points out….many Dems see it the same way. Interesting they didn’t make it in this garbage blog post.

    Alfie points out he got his numbers wrong. The opposition was overwhelmingly Republican despite Bob Dole sitting there in his f*cking wheelchair practically begging them to pass the thing.

  43. “All this whining about the UN going after our guns or taking over the US is amazing. They complain the UN can not accomplish anything and we should leave it but fear it is powerful enough to over take the US. Can they not see the contradiction in these two statements??”

    “Very simple … please cite for me any specific case where the United Nations trumped United States laws or law enforcement.”

    Simpletons can be frustrating at times. It is not the danger of the UN taking us over, that is a moronic notion, much like these comments. But rather our campaigner and chief handing it over to them. Deferring to their will, to their judgement. Asking the UN for permission to attack, guns, internet, ADA….if this does not constitute a trend then I don’t know what does. You know you are onto something when all the opposition can come up with is your nuts. (Not that their arguments have ever been much more deep than that.)

    p.s. still pms’ing I see Emily.

  44. Rutherford @ 20
    I think Alfie @44 pretty much summed up my thoughts. Our education system does not lend itself to rewarding critical independent thinking in our children.

  45. The doctor said I am fine when I called her. Our air is so dry many people have come in with nosebleeds. She told me I would need to be cauterized if blood continued to flow into my throat which it did for a couple of hours. My wife had to clean rugs in our living room and dining room. My shirt was soaked to the skin.I went to the party.

    This has a tangental connection to the cllimate link. We are in a thirties style drought with no measurable rain since November 10, and we are breaking a snow less record. 2012 has for us, been one of the warmest years since Europeans moved here..

    That article is an example of arguemenium ad populum–appeal to public opinion..Sofia Jannok’s talk which you haven’t heard, also would support the article as she describes drowning “ice bears.”

    Two other examples of steamrolling are the Clovis Point as the oldest human artifact in America,and the lack of early contact with China and Europe. Both were proven wrong.

    As I mentioned before,the London Met Office research shows the world’s average climate hasn’t changed since about 1997. Alex Jones of East Angia University said in an interview that the study is correct, but he thinks the pause is temporary. A climate Scientist at the University of Georgia, I think says the initial computer programs are wrong.

    Jones was one of the people involved in Climategate as the group debated how to “hide the decline.”

    The real issue is what do we do about it? The sterieoypical Al Gore types would impose stringent measures which would deny the middle class to millions of people, So far, their nostrums have proven they will not affect our climate without universal laws, probably through the UN. Even then, their effects on long-term climate are questionable.

    That is what the debate should be about.

  46. DR @ 1

    I, too thought ADD was complete bullshit until I was personally involved with a young man with it. I cannot tell you what the disease process it, but take it from me, it’s real. When he was three years old you could find him anywhere in the neighborhood by just poking your head out of the door and listening for his voice, loud and frantic, above the voices of all the other kids. He followed the usual course through school and is now twenty years old. His symptoms are now more that of Asperger’s, which may have been the problem all along – a very typical misdiagnosis by the medicos.

    Interestingly, ADD is unheard-of in the Amish community. Is it because they bust the kids’ asses? I don’t think so; the young man I know got his ass busted too. Is it “phthalates” in hard plastics that hold our drinks? Is it due to the rapid-fire video games and flash-flash-flash-flash cartoons? I am beginning to think so.

    We have a large Amish contingent close to where I live. My wife has been bugging me for several years to petition their elders to allow us to observe the schoolrooms and do research on whatever it is that they are doing right and we, the “English” are doing wrong.

  47. I don’t know about the issue yet, but my emotional reaction is that we don’t need the UN to tell us how to run our own affairs. We already have laws to help disabled people,and we can pass more without the UN’s help.

    Some place back there, Rutherford asked for an example of the UN’s power to interfere in our affairs. Korea. The Korean War was a UN police action which progressed because the Russians mistakenly boycotted the meeting which approved the war.

    We know it was a US action done under UN cover, but officially the UN went to war.

    I agree with lurker in 40.

    A blogger somewhere wrote that Jr high (?) students in Detroit’s public schools have an 8% reading proficiency score. Many of them will grow up to vote.

  48. R opined: “On my Internet radio show today we covered climate change. An interesting link for the deniers on the board:”

    Nobody I know is denying climate change. I believe in it for sure. I have believed in it every one of the forty or so times it has happened in geologic history. Unfortunately for the human-haters, there weren’t any humans around most of those other times.

    Take a look some time at the near-space pictures that show the atmosphere outlined by space. It is as thin as a razor blade. You think it can affect global climate all by itself? I don’t think so. The same forces that have always been at work are at work now, and we are in a global warming period. Do you think the earth’s natural processes stop because there are humans here now?

    Humans are mere piss-ants. Reminds me of that old joke about the ant who falls out of a tree onto an elephant’s back. Being a bit arrogant, he starts to have sex with the elephant.

    A coconut falls on the elephant’s head and he goes “OUCH!” The piss-ant grins and says, “Suffer, Baby!”

    We are that piss-ant, vis à vis the earth. We ain’t causing it to suffer much.

  49. According to Betsy’s Page, Democrats like Al Frankin are asking that an Obamacare tax which they voted for, be postponed because it will kill jobs. its not the first time this has happened.

    Her link supports my writing that we needed a silent filibuster strong enough to change the affordable health care law when it was still a bill. Maybe letting people work in shifts to actually speak until exhaustion took them down so someone else could continue the obstruction would be superior to the silent variety, but it is all we have right now to countermand the tyrany of the majority.

  50. re: education. I just got back from a social visit to the Coal River Valley of West Virginia, where I grew up. It is a scene right out of “Justified.” Poverty and squalor everywhere. Grown men with scraggly-assed beards queuing up at the LMD trailer (local medical doctor – yes, it’s a double-wide trailer) to get their pain meds prescriptions – mostly Oxycontin -for their disabled backs.

    As I drive down the valley, what do I see? A HUGE new two million dollar middle school. Further on? A HUGE new grade school. And of course it wouldn’t be complete with out a HUGE new high school on down the road. As I noted in a school board meeting twenty years ago, old buildings are not the problem; the buildings at Oxford were built in the fourteenth century. The problem is that there is nothing happening inside.

    I used to be a school board member in this area, and I can tell you exactly what is going on. The Board and the school administration is completely paralyzed in matters that make a difference. Fire an incompetent teacher? Might was well try for a moon shot; the teacher’s union will make sure you can’t do that. We tried. Make the kids behave? Are you out of your mind? Bust their asses? Nope, can’t do that since the ‘seventies. Besides, the parents will beat your ass and your principal, who is as frightened as the teachers, won’t back you. Nor will HIS bosses; too afraid of lawsuits.

    Get a half-inch of snow, or even the threat? School is closed. Then there are the “teacher workshop” days – days without instruction so the teachers can “meet.” Yeah, right. It’s a paid holiday; my neice IS one of those teachers. No, all the Board CAN do is build buildings with their names on bronze plaques by the door.

    This system is completely worthless. Good teachers won’t stay. Parents with the money to pay for private AND public school put their kids in private.

    As I have said before, we have everything we need to have good schools – except the will.

  51. As we know, the internet is accelatiing the creation of a new world-wide subculture. It is apparent in the millions of teenaged girls with crushes on music stars like One Direction. Love sick girls are making fan videos to implore their idols to sing in their countries.

    One wrote ” There is a part of every girl”s heart that dreams with her prince charming, but I tnink that every directionator already looks at you like our prince charming, because you really are. You make us feel like your princeses, every one of us.”

    Another wrote “You make me feel good. You make me feel like I could llive another day.”

    These girls live in Estonia where the mean family income is $13,600 American dollars per year.

    They like the others, speak English and other languages without the benefit of the great wealth Pfessor alludes to. Too many of our children would be hard-pressed to write as well in English. We need the will.

  52. Something this society really needs to think about:

    If money be not thy servant, it will be thy master. The covetous man cannot so properly be said to possess wealth, as that may be said to possess him. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626)

  53. Damn Raji, Jim’s rant at Stonekettle made my little entry seem like a polite objection.

    My offline foreign affairs adviser, whose opinion I value because the dude studies sh*t before mouthing off, told me that none of you will be able to cite an instance where the UN trumped US laws. You know why? Because when we ratify binding UN treaties they automatically become the law of the land within the US. (Non-binding agreements are another matter.)

    So get this (no longer directed at Raji), you knuckle dragging neanderthals, the goddam UN treaty was fashioned after the current law of the land — the ADA hence ratifying it would not have changed a goddam thing in America.

    I am so sick of your nationalistic jingoistic paranoid bullsh*t. It’s one reason you lost the last election.

    GET A F*CKING GRIP ON YOURSELVES AND BEHAVE LIKE RESPONSIBLE HUMAN BEINGS. YOU AND YOURS ARE RUINING THIS COUNTRY.

    You may now return to your previously scheduled broadcast.

  54. Jones was one of the people involved in Climategate as the group debated how to “hide the decline.”

    James, listen to my latest radio show starting at about the 15 minute mark. My guest explains “hide the decline” because I asked her about it. From where I sit, ClimateGate took advantage of ignorant gullible folks, trying to spark anti-science fear in them.

    The graph in the article I posted speaks volumes. The overwhelming evidence points to dangerous climate change, a phenomenon that we contribute to.

    I get lots of lectures around here about how my fiscal policies will bankrupt my child but none of you want to admit that putting your head in the sand vis-a-vis climate change will end up killing your great-grandchildren.

  55. By the way, addendum to 66: The treaty was in part drafted by … wait for it … George W. Bush who presented it to the UN years ago. I know how much you guys think old George worked against American self-interest. :roll:

  56. We are that piss-ant, vis à vis the earth. We ain’t causing it to suffer much.

    The only thing more arrogant than thinking we can control the Earth is believing that we CAN’T harm it. If we were just sitting on our asses, I’d be inclined to agree with you. But we ain’t. We have been pouring pollutants into the air for ages. We are digging deep into the Earth to extract oil and gas. We metaphorically f*ck the Earth at every turn to satisfy our needs. You don’t think there is eventual payback for that?

    If oil wasn’t big business, I might continue to be middle of the road. But the profit incentive to ignore the environmental hazard is just too great.

    Keep sticking your finger in Mother Nature’s eye and see what happens.

  57. Get a half-inch of snow, or even the threat? School is closed. Then there are the “teacher workshop” days – days without instruction so the teachers can “meet.”

    You really hit a nerve on that one. When I was a kid we went to school every damn day. Now a flake falls and schools close. I can’t speak for the Chicago area because we had a mild winter last year, but back in Middlebury all you needed were a few flakes and no school.

    On your other point …. every Wednesday is for teacher development and they do it on my kid’s time. That’s right. School starts at 9:am every day except Wednesday. On Wednesday it starts at 9:15.. So I take the kid to the bus late every Wednesday.

    Why the hell is the teacher development not done AFTER school so my kid doesn’t lose valuable instruction time? Why should elementary school kids who thrive on predictable routine, get their mornings screwed up and disrupted once every week? No doubt it is the teacher’s union who said that teachers would not do their development on their time … so my kid has to accommodate.

    Ridiculous!

  58. I tnink that every directionator already looks at you like our prince charming

    LOL that cracked me up — directionator. :lol:

    James lets not forget long before the Internet explosion there was a band that made girls scream around the globe. They were called The Beatles.

  59. So get this (no longer directed at Raji), you knuckle dragging neanderthals, the goddam UN treaty was fashioned after the current law of the land — the ADA hence ratifying it would not have changed a goddam thing in America.

    Rutherford, are you really that stupid? It is more about giving the UN any say at all. It is not about what this bill does or does not do. I understand the blithering idiots that make up most of the Liberal party would buy this distraction, and maybe that is why your mind has gone so soft. I don’t want to hear the name of the UN even in passing when taking about US policy. The UN should be treated like you Libs insist on treating religion and state. Under no circumstances should they meet.

  60. PF, thanks for a new word for my vocabulary, Phthalates. So having 2 little ones under 2 yrs old, should I be using…glass bottles? I wonder if the bottle nipples contain this compound? Thanks for the heads up.

  61. There are those who claim chemtrails are prolonging the drought we are experiencing. Along our southern border the trails seem to be the densest. I can awaken to clear blue skies and within a few hours watch them become totally milky.

    Comtrails disperse quickly, but chemtrails last the entire day, spreading across the sky. They are introducing metals into the atmosphere at high altitudes and the particles are supposedly increasing the solar radiation that reaches the earth’s crust. Most researchers find it to be an Air Force exercise. The excuse from authorities is that they are trying to initiate rain clouds, but they never result in bringing rain to the planet’s surface.

    I don’t know if it affects weather, but it does affect the health of flora and fauna. Testing shows high levels of boron among other metals, which produces negative effects, mostly lethargy and muscle pain. There are some good cleanses one can ingest to rid oneself of these harmful elements.

    We also have sound weapons that some say are intentionally creating earth disasters like earthquakes and tsunamis. Some even claim they have knocked airplanes out of the sky. The uses are secretive, so it is difficult to validate.

    We have also detonated many nuclear devices across the planet in various places by various nations over the past 60 plus years, the resulting radioactive signature traces are still evident within our ecosystem. Twice in the past I have posted a record of all of them since the first one was tested and by our nation.

    We have developed viruses and biological strains that human immune systems cannot overcome, some having been tested on certain groups of people without their permission or foreknowledge. Much of these things are done in the name of defense or national security. We’re often equivalent to guinea pigs with regard to the PTB.

    And, as Pfesser eludes, petroleum products makeup much of our modern environment, the very essence of which negatively affects our organic systems.

    In other words, we’re killing ourselves along with the rest of the planet by our practices and constant MANipulation™.

  62. There is more to be concerned about then turning power over to the UN. A bigger concern is turning power over to corporations whose only concern is making money and their shareholders.

    One interesting statement in this article is:
    “Although energy companies don’t make a habit of telling potential lease signers about the environmental risks they might face, the Securities and Exchange Commission requires them to inform potential investors.”

    http://www.thenation.com/article/171504/fracking-our-food-supply#

    We have been fighting this Fracking battle in my area for some time.

  63. Rutherford, I’d like to hear the show when I have time. Where is the link:?

    This is my understanding from reading the e mails. The prominent group of scientists manipulated the peer review press to silence dissenting views. They also conspired to delete e mails which were subject to the Freedom of Information Act.

    ‘Hide the decline” had less to do with actual global cooling than to the meaning of Jones’ “trick.” People have used thermometers and other instruments to record the weather since about 1850. Weather before that date comes from the impiication of tree rings, ice cores and other methods.

    Inferred data from the tree rings etc showed a steady warming into the twentieth century, and it agreed with instrlumental data. Sometime after 1960, something unexplainable happened. Inferred data showed cooling while instruments continued to indicate a warming climate.

    Dr., Phil then played a “trick.”He plotted a temperature change graph showing steady warming. The first half was based on tree rings, but when inferred and instrument records diverged, Jones grafted instrumentation onto the last part of his graph to “hide the deciiine” of tree records.

    His “trick” gave the impression that his graph was reliable, but since he silently substituted thermomenters for tree rings, the graph was dishonest and deceptive.

    T’he scientists also discussed their dismay that the warming rate was halting. This correspoinds with the Met Office records.

    i agree we contribute to climate change. Dr. Elwynn Taylor, extension climatologist at ISU estimates we add about 6% to warming each year. That leaves a heap of change we cannot countermand with any tools now at our disposal.

    You should listen to Sofia Jannok. Besides race, etc. she talks about how changes warming Arctic regions affect people who live there.

    We cannot as yet change our climate trends because we don’t have the technology. People personified by Al Gore would force us into a sparfan way of life which would also steal our freedoms.

    They use climate change to impose their ideology onto us while making a profit. The climate would still change, and people like the girls on the fan videos who are finally catching a glimpse of middle class life would be doomed to live their lives in abject poverty.others in less favored nations would die.

  64. Its true about the Beatles and Elivis before them Frank Sinatra was another singer who set hearts afflutter even farther back in time.

    I’m glad you enjoyed the prince charming line too.

    It made me think I wish I knew what One Direction knows when I was a teenager. I would have had awesome pickup lilnes.

    Here is the difference. Two Finnish girls used the internet to ask girls from across the country to make a flash mob for One Direction. About 300 showed up. They also made videos of individuals asking the boys to come to Finland.

    The comments are what boggled my mind. A Greek girl asked if they could use the dance steps for their own flash mob. The Finn said “yes” but please give them credit. Other giris from Croatia, Holland and Turkey praised the video, and wrote that they should all keep tweeting each other.

    A girl near Sioux City wrote that she was trying to pursuade her cheer leading coach to use the dance steps in their cheer routine. the Finn asked if she was having any luck. The Sioux City girl wrote her coach was still considering.

    One of the two Finns wrote she had ripped her red chinos while doing a back flip. Several girls from other countries sympathised and asked she could repair the damage.

    Perhaps, I am too easily impressed, but my mind is boggled.

  65. I don’t have a strong feeling either way, and I know Bush helped origionate the treaty, but I still don’t understand why we need a UN treaty which involves our domestic policies. Maybe it will do no harm .I don’t know.

    I agree with lurker’s comment about multi- national corporations.

  66. Appearing Monday morning on CBS, Obama’s jobs council head and the CEO of GE Jeffrey Immelt said that one thing that “actually works” is “state-run Communism”

  67. Rutherford, Jim’s rants get a bit wordy don’t they? I’ll stick to your form of objection ;-)

    James, I find it equally as mind boggling that Beatlemania swept two countries and crossed the pond without the aid of the internet. There are many other groups like One Direction that have joined passions not all of them music because of the internet.

  68. It just gets better and better. The Federal Reserve on Wednesday announced that it will launch a fourth round of quantitative easing (“QE4”), this time committing $45 billion a month to the purchase of long-term Treasury securities.

    You know what this means, right? It means that along with Washington’s open-ended $40 billion a month program to buy up mortgage backed securities (“QE3”), total monthly bond purchases by the Fed will amount to $85 billion.

    Yes, that’s $85 billion a month. Anyone have an argument that supports the notion that watering down our currency at this rate is a good idea? Anyone?

  69. Links work better than sound bites.

    http://dailycaller.com/2012/12/11/white-houses-business-adviser-says-chinas-state-run-communism-works/

    “China’s government is now spending huge amounts of money to build up the country’s infrastructure. The spending is buying coal-fired and nuclear power plants, electricity transmission lines, and railroads — all of which G.E. builds for export.”….

    “In the United States, Obama’s management of the economy has included pushing to enormously increase spending on welfare and Obamacare, while also aiding Democratic constituencies including immigrants and unmarried people.

    But Obama has also spent tens of billions of taxpayers’ dollars on green-tech energy programs, and his environmental regulations have also forced companies to buy new generations of energy products manufactured by General Electric and other companies. Those regulations can stop or spur sale of GE’s products, such as banking, medical equipment, locomotives and aircraft engines.”….

  70. I fucking hate PD days. Miserable days. It ain’t a vacation. They suck massive donkey balls. I’ll take the class room any day over those days. I’d rather clean the school bathrooms. Here’s the funny part. Take a sick day when class is in session, nobody gives a fuck. The district has to pay a sub and the kids miss instruction. Take a sick day on a pd day, which actually saves the district money, and get your balls busted by administration. Isn’t that nuts?

    I do get a chuckle when Pfessor of all people laments the moral erosion of the youth. Dude attacks every and all institutions that draw moral lines in the sand and then is beside himself with anger over unruly youth.

  71. Rutherford, you think nobody in your daughter’s class has a documented learning disability with a 504? Lol dude……email your teacher. Now…in fairness….they do crop up as the kid gets older. Johnny has bad character and lazy so Mommy gets him labeled.

    Your teacher was probably ordered to not count missing homework against the kids. There is a huge push right now not to give kids zero credit for missing work. Pathetic isn’t?

  72. Pfessor makes a great point with all the money blown on school infrastructure. It baffles me too. I was called a Luddite when I said I could teach the class in a cave with a camp fire.

    That being said…those big school buildings are usually passed by milage/ approved bond In other words, the community chooses to build those monstrosities. They have nothing to do with unions or teacher contracts.

    Subsidized by some asinine federal grant from Obama, the school board decided we needed more “technology”. What did they do? Buy all the teachers IPads! I shit you not. I already have a computer in my room. What the fuck am I going to do with an IPad? Oh…..I know…pontificate on the Rutherford Lawson blog from my house and monitor my fantasy baseball team.

  73. James, at the top of the blog page just click Leaning Left Radio and you’ll get access to the last five episodes, most recent ones at the top of the player.

    This business of climate change proponents having a profit motive makes no sense to me. Where are these multi-billion dollar wind farm corporations? That ant that Pfesser mentioned … that is what wind and solar are to the multi-billion dollar oil conglomerates.

  74. Pfessor….there is certainly real cases of ADD. I would say maybe even 30 percent of the documented cases are real. So I hear you…..it does exist.

    The elephant in the room is low IQ. In order to be deemed SPED you are supposed to be functioning below your IQ. Thus, you are accommodated so that you can reach your potential. Now…..if you have a super low IQ you also qualify for services. But an IQ of 95? Nope…..

    Nobody wants to admit that a percentage of people are dumber then shit. Understandably not the parents. Certainly not the politicians or administrators. Many of them get fake 504’s and claim ADHD. At least the ones with parents that care enough to help their kid essentially cheat.

  75. Hey DR, you don’t want your iPad? Ship that sucker to me. I’m dying to have one. :-)

    BTW I didn’t think my kids teacher acted independently on the spelling homework thing. In fact, I’m sure she has very little latitude on most things. Hell, I’m discovering sometimes the teacher is pushing standardized stuff that she doesn’t completely understand.

    DR, I’ll give you a quick glimpse into what an obnoxious f*ck I can be as a parent. I try to control myself, I really do but sometimes I just can’t.

    Teacher sends an email telling the parents that many kids in the class flunked the government test and she wants the parents to review the work with the kids. So mine comes home with her 90% test and after I congratulate her I review the one question she got wrong:

    “The Congress and Representatives belong in:
    a) executive branch
    b) legislative branch
    c) judicial branch ”

    Kid got confused and rightfully so. Damn question makes no sense — “congress and representatives”???? WTF???

    So I write to the teacher telling her the question should either read “Congress belongs in” or “The Senators and Representatives belong in”.

    Teacher gave a repeat quiz on Monday. Question got rephrased to “Senators and Representatives”.

    I shouldn’t have to teach the teacher. Honestly, I’m not one of those parents constantly butting in, but sometimes the incompetence just burns my ass. I’m guessing the teacher might not have even composed the first quiz but got it handed to her to give to the kids.

  76. “The worst part if I understand you Rabbit, is that the kid loses in this scam. Can I correctly assume that the modifications you make to the curriculum don’t really increase the learning of these autistic kids?”-R

    Rutherford, these are kids who pace around the room, talk to themselves…repetitive motions…they can’t write..simply put, they have no business being in a normal classroom. Yet……supposedly we are not to modify the curriculum. Do they gain something from being in the room? Maybe. But, it’s kind of hard to help a kid improve on his essay comparing and contrasting Hinduism and Buddhism when he can’t write his name and his rocking back and forth. Would you fail him? Parents want him to go to school like everyone else. Administration claims on paper that he has the potential to perform with out modification.

    You know how white people brag about black people liking them. My thing is autistic kids. I have no idea why. But they like me. My class soothes them. They try to give me all the mainstreamed autistic/aspergers kids. So they freak out in every other class but mine. I swear I have no idea why. I’m not terribly structured…horrible organization.

    I should also point out I have seen incredible improvements with kids with Aspergers Syndrome as they get older. It’s really cool to see.

    I had an autistic kid last year who couldn’t write. He would sleep all the time and needed to pace around when he wasn’t. He would flip the fuck out in every other class. Not mine. Amazingly, about once a week he would blurt out thoughtful facts relevant to the topic at hand. I think he learned in a strange way. Should I have failed him? I think he had somewhere around a 3 percent in my class. I passed him with a D+.

  77. Lol….Rutherford….you would want to kill me. I have two or three shitty questions on every test no matter what. I could go over that thing 100 times…it doesn’t matter. In all actuality…..it’s her attention to detail probably not her content knowledge. (Although you never know).

    Why do you get so pissed? I would just thank you and explain to the class why the question sucks. In fact, when I go over a test the class has an opportunity to make a case why any question on my test blows. If they are reasonable….I give them the point.

    Sometimes I don’t think people realize how frazzled your brain gets in this profession. It’s easy to screw a test question up.

    Try to make a decent multiple choice test, particular one that doesn’t revolve around pointless trivia and requires some critical thinking. It ain’t easy, dude.

  78. To try to make more sense on bad question writing…when you already know the content through and through….it’s easy to write a bad question because when you read the question back to yourself you already know the answer. You don’t always look at the question like a kid who either just learned the new material or has to reason through the question somewhat to pick the correct answer. Does that make any sense?

  79. DR, What classes do you teach?

    Are you talking about kids that have been mainstreamed?

    I’ve spent many years around DLC’s and I’ve never once seen a kid I would suspect was “faking it”.

    In our state, new schools are voted on as bond issues. New schools are safer and more efficient.

    Do they still study by candle light at Oxford? Burn cow shit to heat their rooms? Go without internet access? I doubt it.

    Three school district superintendents in this state make more money than the Governor. Now that’s one place where some cuts could be made.

  80. By the way….your daughter should have picked legislative branch. Bad questions are a fact of life….there are more then a few on the ACT. While the question was bad…..she should have picked the best answer. One of the other two options really made no sense. Fricking MC tests….the bad questions always get the smart kids because they think too much. Tell her to stop using her mind…she has important standardized tests to score well on! :)

  81. What’s a DLC?

    Do you mean a classroom away from the the mainstreamed classroom? If so, yeah….there was no faking in those classrooms.

    Yes….They mainstream most kids at the highschool level now days. Often times, a special Ed teacher is also in the room and we “team teach” the class.

    I don’t think special Ed kids fake it. Some are just dumb, however, and technically shouldn’t be SPED.

    But 504’s? He’ll yeah they are faked. These are kids who never would have been labeled anything back when we were in school. Poor performers, not that bright or lazy. Now they get a label that didn’t exist 20 years ago.

  82. DR, I had a feeling you were one of those special teachers who know how to reach out to kids. You are probably given the ASD/ADD kids because they know you can deal. My daughter with an ASD child keeps fighting the establishment because they want to label him ADD and she knows he is HFA (high functioning Asperger’s). She begs the teachers for homework as she wants to establish a daily routine which is a necessary in his case. If she allows them to label him ADD then they don’t have to provide homework. Also with a ASD label he gets OT not so with ADD. She has had to pay a lot of money for evaluation outside of the system to get what she knows he needs in the system.

  83. Raji, I would just give the kid homework. Hell…just circular file the stuff when you get it back.

    The homework thing cracks me up. My first year of teaching outside of prisons I got two emails right next to one another from parents. Email number one complained about the amount of homework I was giving. Email number two complained about the lack of homework in my class. I was tempted to forward the damn emails to each parent.

    When I taught the Advanced Placement class assigned a lot of homework. However, now, I don’t really assign any. Don’t see the point of it. The kids need to be working on math, not social studies work after school and hopefully doing some other extracurricular activity. I find homework over rated when it comes to learning. My homework is “study for your fucking test”.

  84. There is no reason that an ADD label would necessitate no homework. Both an IEP or a 504 plan is written with the parent. In other words, the parents can push to have pretty much anything they want in it. His label shouldn’t matter. At the IEP meeting or 504….tell your daughter to make them write it in his plan. Doesn’t matter what the label is as long as he has one.

  85. DR, Thanks for the advice. He is 8 and in second grade and all this is a learning experience to say the least. First grade was a disaster not so sure second grade is much better but the teacher seems to have a better grasp and apparently she has been given several students to deal with. Apparently the label was the important thing for an IEP but she wanted the correct label.

  86. DR, A DLC is a Distributive Learning Center. Like the room away from other rooms you described. Depending on the kiddo’s IEP, they spend some to all of their school day there. The decision to mainstream them is done subject by subject, setting by setting. They attend those classes with extra help, if needed. The DLC also focuses on vocational skills. They run a coffee delivery service for the school.

    Try putting proloquo2go on your IPAD. It’s a great communication app for non-verbal and limited-verbal kids. They use it in our DLC . Easy for the para-eds to carry with them too, when going to other classes. Perhaps this is what your chool had in mind had in mind.

    In regard to your ASD groupies, my son loves physical comedy. Just a guess, but is your teaching style a bit “animated?” Or perhaps you fall down a lot during class? ;)

  87. Thanks, Rutherford. I will try to look tomorrow.

    The green industries Obama and leaders of other nations hoped would wean us from energy extracted from the ground are mostly unsupportable without subsidies, as we know…Without infrastructure and efficiency they will remain niches unless the supply of ground extracted energy stops.

    Spain and other countries invested heavily in green industries and for awhile, they made money on expectations.. Cap and Trade seemed likely before the Tea Party Revolt, and traders created a small bubble of wealth which crashed after the Republican victory of 2010.

    Our area has many wind farms which earn profits partly through subsidies. The ethanol mandate which was created in part to reduce green house emissions and also to reduce our dependance on foreign oil has helped our household. it, combined with bad weather has helped make corn more scarce and the price rises.

    We made $8,000 more this year, and some of that money comes to us thanks to global warming ideology.

    Scientists who attempt to prove global warming is related to human activities receive nice grants and promotions.

    The real money is in carbon trading. Companies can buy carbon credits from other companies with a surplus of credits. Credits can be traded as structured investment vehicles and other arcane things I don’t understand. It is similar to how bad housing credit was traded.

    Google “How to profit from Carbon Credits’ London Carbon Credit Company. “Experts in Green Investments”

  88. My wife taught for 39 years, and she knows what your deal with rabbit.

    Our daughter was in second grade when she decided she was working too hard. The “special class” had more fun, so she let her grades slip, and she flunked an evaluation test. Our daughter joined the class for disabilities for over a semester, and she loved it.

    We had a difficult time getting her out of there. My wife worked hard to mainstream other students she felt didn’t belong in such classes.

    Our daughter is a therapist who was smart enough to earn a MA with thesis with a 4.00 cumulative average. She was playing the system because she was lazy.

  89. Hi everyone…

    It looks like the level of contention here has subsided quite a bit from what it was when I had to depart last February. It turned out that my blood pressure was out of whack, which was causing me some other issues. That has since been taken care of with medication. So between those 2 things, it looks like it might be safe for me to venture back into the fold once in a while. With that said, my presence will be somewhat sparse, and I won’t engage in discussions that get heated…even though I am as guilty as anyone else for them getting that way in the past.

    First let’s go ahead and get a few things out of the way that were sure to come up anyway. Yes, I was wrong about the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. I took them at their word that they would not seek the presidency in Egypt and I was wrong. As I said at the time, I was basing it on their political history—or lack thereof—and that I might ultimately be proven wrong. But I was not going to accept an unsubstantiated “you’re crazy if you think…” offered without a shred of analysis or substance to back it up. But, like I said..I made a claim and it was wrong. I am not trying to get away from that. I was wrong.

    I also made the claim that the Egyptian people did not want a Salafist government. I was not wrong about that. The Salafists got beat handily in every Egyptian election. And I think what we have been seeing in Egypt lately suggests that has not changed..and that a whole lot of Egyptians don’t even think too much of the relatively moderate Islamists running things now. I have seen claims in these comment strings about “Huck said this wouldn’t happen.” I welcome any discussion where I can be proven to have said anything but what I say here now. I never even hinted that Egyptians were going to turn pro-western or pro-US.

    I have also seen comments suggesting I was a proponent of the Arab Spring. That is also not true. I think maybe some are getting confused from when Yellowdawg was coming around here every day with his “tick tock” comments. I did say that what was going on was none of our business and that we shouldn’t get involved, and I stand by that. But that doesn’t mean I thought it was good for us or even good for them. I asked what anyone thought we should do if not butt out…and I don’t recall ever getting any replies.

    Whew….ok…now with all of that said…. I am going to start a new comment so I don’t get accused of boring anyone with an autobiography

  90. Rutherford…I think you missed my point.

    A treaty “based on” our existing law is not the same as a treaty that mirrors our existing law, any more than a film that is “based on” actual events mirrors actual events. The existing ADA became law through a negotiated legislative process as defined by the US constitution. This treaty would override that with a negotiated process by an international body full of foreigners. Do you really not see why people might get uptight about such a thing? You need to look at the bigger picture. Why do you think George Washington warned us against engaging in treaties?

    Furthermore, our failure to ratify this treaty means literally nothing. As you pointed out, it is based on our existing law. That law is still in place. All we have done is say “we don’t need to replace what we have with what you are giving us”. It does nothing to stop any other country on earth from adopting the treaty as their own law any more than our ratifying it would force any other country on earth into adopting it.

    Long story short…this is nothing but unnecessary outrage by all involved regardless of political affiliation.

  91. I think our shrinking world is a big deal. When we lived in England and through Europe, American music and television shows were popular, but individual commnication was slower and largely unthinkable.

    The British Invasion resulted after rock and roll mostly died in the United States as corporations homogenised it and removed its racial elements. Liverpool yanks, blokes who brought American records back home after their ships returned caused new music to perculate in and around Liverpool. The process took several years. Had we had the internet then, the Beatles may not have been the Beatles.

    Over time, millions of people who know each other personally might make wars harder to start.

  92. “The decision to mainstream them is done subject by subject, setting by setting. “-thor

    By highschool, at least mine and I know many others…..it doesn’t go down that way. Often times, kids are mainstreamed because no alternative class exists. So Billy will be in what we call a resource room for all of his non elective classes but mine, because a resource room for my subject doesn’t exist. Then, magically, he is qualified to be mainstreamed. Scheduling makes it a bitch and the school doesn’t have the money to pay teachers to have a class with one or two students.

    Dude..you nailed my shtick to the tee. Physical comedy. I make a big deal when I run into tables. Im a fucking 250 pound clown. You think that’s what it is?

  93. Hucking welcome back you Islamaphile.

    “I also made the claim that the Egyptian people did not want a Salafist government.” Hucking

    Im not sure about that. Is there enough Liberals to create hell on the square? Yes. Hell, they were enough to bring down Mubarak.

    But is there enough to stop a Salafist take over possibly supported by the millions of shanty town ignorant poor wretches? Man. I don’t know.

    Iran also has a sizable liberal population. Doesn’t do shit to stop the theocracy hell bent on using violence.

    The liberals couldn’t seize power for a reason. You were terribly wrong about their clout. If you end up wrong about the Salafists then yes…intervention would have been the right call.

    Monday morning quarter backing to be sure. But, I sense a naive expectation of a legit political process in Egypt. It ain’t going down that way. Egypt is ripe to turn into a failed state in which the stink beard fascists end up on top….if it already isnt happening now.

    You spent a lot of time defending the MB while we spent a lot tine saying fuck the MB this sucks. As of right now, the MB seems hell bent on creating a theocracy above the law. Am I wrong?

  94. “But is there enough to stop a Salafist take over possibly supported by the millions of shanty town ignorant poor wretches? Man. I don’t know.”

    Were that to happen, it wouldn’t change what I said. The numbers over the course of multiple elections (legislative and presidential) show that the vast majority of Egyptians are not interested in a Salaifist government. I can’t speculate about an uprising that doesn’t have popular support. It would depend on the military. But if I had to venture a guess, the army would put it down before the liberals came into the picture.

    And I say all of that with the premise that the MB is not Salafist. Islamist, yes. But not Salafist.

    “The liberals couldn’t seize power for a reason. You were terribly wrong about their clout.”

    I don’t recall taking a position regarding the liberal clout or the Egyptian desire for liberalism. I don’t think saying they don’t want Salafism is defaulting to liberalism.

    But Morsi got 51.73% of the vote. His opponent, Ahmed Shafik, a remnant from the Mubarak era, got 48.27%. So as far as the percentages go, their president is about as popular (or unpopular) with the entire country as our is.

    “I sense a naive expectation of a legit political process in Egypt. It ain’t going down that way.”

    I think it might have gone down that way up to this point. I was surprised when the military council got done counting the votes and said Morsi won. I really didn’t expect them to give the country to the MB…whether it had won the election or not.

    But I don’t have much faith in their political institutions right now. I am anxious to see what happens with this referendum vote on the 15th. If it passes, I think it could get ugly. Then again, if it doesn’t pass I think it could get ugly, too. I think Egypt is in for some ugly times.

    “You spent a lot of time defending the MB while we spent a lot tine saying fuck the MB this sucks. As of right now, the MB seems hell bent on creating a theocracy above the law.”

    Sure looks that way. I am sorry to say that I was wrong. Not because I don’t like being wrong, but because it sucks for Egypt. This isn’t what they had in mind when ousting Mubarak. I’d like to hope that even some of those who voted for Morsi don’t like his power grabs. But then again, we have lots of people who voted for Obama who don’t even acknowledge his power grabs…so who knows.

  95. “You think that’s what it is?” – DR

    I’d bet it is. Probably the only class they aren’t bored stiff in.

    “By highschool, at least mine and I know many others…..it doesn’t go down that way.” – DR

    My son is in high school. I guess this just shows the variance in teaching philosophies and resources in different communities.

    Nice to have you back Huck, and to hear you are doing better. What happened to that awesome avatar. The new one looks like a garden tile on prozac.

    James, if your nosebleed comes back, apply major pressure. If that doesn’t work, take three shots of tequila. It won’t stop the bleeding but it will stop you from caring. :)

  96. I just came across this piece, which I thought was interesting.

    “We all had faith that Morsi would be the one who would fulfill our dreams and take Egypt where we wanted it to go. The problem [now] is that not only has he abandoned our dream, he has gone against it. … They took our dream and implanted their own. I am a Muslim, but I think with my own mind. But [the Muslim Brothers] follow orders from their Supreme Guide. … Half of me is heartbroken, and half of me is happy today. The part that is heartbroken is because I am aware that we are entering a stage that could be a real blood bath. And the part that is happy is because people who were completely apathetic before have now woken up and joined us.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/12/opinion/friedman-can-god-save-egypt.html?_r=1&

  97. “Nice to have you back Huck, and to hear you are doing better. What happened to that awesome avatar. The new one looks like a garden tile on prozac.”

    Thank you.

    I changed the name and gravitar because both were more inflammatory than I want to be coming back. One wouldn’t think a “coexist” sign would inflame people, but it did. I thought a clean slate would be better.

  98. You don’t always look at the question like a kid who either just learned the new material

    I know question writing isn’t easy. I thought two, three, four times before I fired the note off to my kid’s teacher and only then did I do it because she had written a note to the parents sorta suggesting we hadn’t reviewed the material enough with our kids. After getting a bit of a scolding note, and then seeing that at least one of the questions sucked, I couldn’t resist piping in.

    I’m really not one of THOSE parents. :-)

    As for the autistic kids in your class, I don’t know what to say, I am 100% in favor of mainstreaming disabled kids whose minds function at level. I am not so sure it is a good idea to do it with mentally challenged kids. But I supposed their parents would accuse me of prejudice.

  99. Fricking MC tests….the bad questions always get the smart kids because they think too much. Tell her to stop using her mind…she has important standardized tests to score well on! :)

    LOL, yeah you’re right. I’m letting the kid slide cos she’s only going on 9 in January but you’re damn right by the time ACT’s and/or SAT’s kick in, she’s gonna have to be a more sophisticated test taker. I’m not worried. Kid is smart as a tack.

  100. Editor’s note to James, Newt, Lurker and Emily who are all relatively new here (James, you may go back further here than I’m giving you credit for):

    Huck is one of my longest time e-acquaintances having frequented this blog almost since its inception. I think Huck and Alfie are a close tie for longest patrons … yes they even pre-date Rabbit and Tex (although Tex thinks he invented this blog :lol: ).

    Huck used to be a WordPress blogger himself which always carries some weight with me cos it’s easy to throw stones when you’ve never tried to put virtual pen to paper and stick your neck out for abuse.

    Finally, like Alfie, Huck is not that easy to pin down politically. Huck can correct me if I’m wrong but I’d characterize him as socially moderate and fiscally conservative.

    With things a bit calmer post-election, I’m hoping Huck can stick around for a while with no detriment to his health.

    Welcome back Sir!

  101. And now Huck, a question: how do you reconcile Morsi’s brokering the cease fire between Gaza and Israel with his recent power grab? Does the latter move basically nullify the former move in your estimation?

  102. “And now Huck, a question: how do you reconcile Morsi’s brokering the cease fire between Gaza and Israel with his recent power grab? Does the latter move basically nullify the former move in your estimation?”

    Egypt is no stranger to playing referee between Palestinians and Israel. I think Morsi was just trying to maintain his credibility by continuing that link. But I do think the timing of his power grab almost immediately afterward is more than coincidence. He seemed quick to cash in those chips.

    I also wonder how much forewarning Clinton/Obama had that he was going to do it. Less than a week after she was there he went power-tripping. Their virtual silence on the matter, coupled with the delivery of military aircraft to Egypt this week (admittedly it was from a 2010 deal with Mubarak, but still…) is disturbing to me.

    I think there might have been some back room dealing going on during those negotiations that might have involved threats of cutting off aid if people didn’t play ball. Threats to Israel’s aid could go a long way in influencing them. Similarly, threats to Egypt’s aid could go a long way in them influencing Hamas…who is an offshoot of the MB.

  103. “I do get a chuckle when Pfessor of all people laments the moral erosion of the youth. Dude attacks every and all institutions that draw moral lines in the sand and then is beside himself with anger over unruly youth.”

    You are way out in left field. It has nothing to do with morality. I am talking about rank incompetency in teaching basic skills needed to survive in a modern world. We know what we need to do to elevate our kids from last – or nearly last – place in every subject. We just don’t have the will to do it, so we take the easy road and build multimillion-dollar schools, when old buildings are not the issue.

    MIT calls it “sub optimization” – elegantly solving the wrong problem.

  104. Good to see you, Huck! Yep, things are a bit different here now. I like it; now we can spend time drilling down to the topic at hand.

  105. nice to meet you, Huck. I was a lurker for a good while and now sometimes post. I am socially and fiscally conservative. But I believe that we need to accept that there are people of good faith and ideas of merits on both sides, and that insulting whole groups or whole philosophies accomplishes nothing. Those who do that are simply trying to validate themselves, not to accomplish anything constructive. I will look forward to your comments.

  106. i like your talk show, Rutherford. As Billy Joel sang, “they put bread in my jar and ask what are you doing here?” You are better than Air America was. I like the music.

    Your voice reminds me of a popular Omaha talk show host. Tom Becka is a radio force in Omaha.

    I explained “Hide the Decline” better and in more detail than your guest did. Hers was a non-answer.

    She mentioned Richard Mullen an opponent of the human caused global warming theory, but he is not who he seems. Several people wrote at the time, that he began sympathetic to our contribution to climate change, and his complete conversion was bogus.

    Cliimategate did have an effect on the Copenhagen conference, but so did the cold winter. Reporters and observers had to stand in line to get into the conference hall as record cold and one of the worst blizzards in years chilled them to the bone.

    She implied the drought is part of our climate change. it is not. It is part of two cycles–a 20 year, and a 90 year cycle. The two decadal cycle has existed for at least 500 years. About 5,000 years ago the Southern Plains were so dry even th4 buffalo and Indians moved away.

    Your guest didn’t mention the money to be made in betting on human caused climate change–only the reverse. That is deceptive.

    Some scientists believe warmer temperatures will reduce the number of hurricanes. That is bad news in that tropical droughts would be more frequent and severe.

    Her saying that 1/3 of fossil fuels be left in the ground without using new technology to keep energy prices affordable supports my view that doing so would impoverish many people who are beginning to enter the middle class.

    Exon, BP, and other big oil companies do not hate her children. That is a dumb comment designed to arouse emotions. Those companies have a primary purpose– to make as much money as possible. You criticize the oil companies, but we either use their product or the cost of energy becomes unafordable.

    Wind turbans do more than give an occasional pigeon a bump on the noggin. They kill thousands of migratory and other birds. Wind turbans are fine as long as the wind blows. Then what?

    I have seen the windmill blades up close. Those things are huge.

    I think the world needs to join forces with a climate style Manhatten Project to remove the politics from our problem.

    I philosophically oppose mining our earth dry as Sofia Jannok does, because we are obligated to save something for our descendents. We need a change that works.

    Now that I have heard your climate show, perhaps you could do a quid pro quo and listen to Mari and Sofia. I’d still like your reaction to them relative to how you used “NOTHING.” Fair is fair.

    .

  107. Hi Huck. I’m glad you are back. I vaguely remember your writing you had to quit because it was affecting your blood pressure.

    117, thanks Rutherford for the information. It helps us understand the site’s history.

  108. Welcome back, Huck. I’m glad you feel okay commenting again. Yeah, things are a bit tamer here in comparison to how they were before the election. Maybe no one will pounce on your comments and make it personal. Maybe. How’s your cousin, btw?

  109. “I think the world needs to join forces with a climate style Manhatten Project to remove the politics from our problem.” – J

    Are you sure? Sounds dangerously close to a U.N. mandate to me. ;)

  110. Here is a strong indicator that the Obama Administration’s crusade to appease Islam has gone too far; a new U.S. military handbook for troops deployed to the Middle East orders soldiers not to make derogatory comments about the Taliban or criticize pedophilia, among other outrageous things.

    It gets better; the new manual, which is around 75 pages, suggests that Western ignorance of Afghan culture— not Taliban infiltration—is responsible for the increase in deadly attacks by Afghan soldiers against the coalition forces.

    Really?

    http://www.libertynews.com/2012/12/new-army-manual-tells-soldiers-not-to-be-critical-of-taliban-or-pedophilia/

  111. Thank you for the warm welcome, everyone.

    Rutherford, I think Tex might have posted here a little bit before I started, but I have logged some time, for sure.

    Poolman, my cousin passed away less than a month after he was diagnosed.

    PF, you still looking for copy editors?

  112. Huck- we picked up several last month,so we are good for now. Thanks for the enquiry. Biz is improving, so I’m sure we will need more soon.

  113. Damn, I knew I should have contacted you sooner.

    I also have editor-in-chief experience, if you ever find yourself in need of a chief editor. (Yeah, I am shameless but a student’s gotta do what a student’s gotta do!)

  114. @ 127, Called what?

    From your article,

    “If you want to stimulate the economy in Louisville, Kentucky, you leave more money in Louisville, Kentucky.” Rand Paul

    Big talk for a guy whose state takes $1.75 from DC for every $1 it pays.

  115. I think the UN does some good, thor.

    But I am sure we need a Manhatten project with scientific and eoncomic, not political goals. the profit motive can do awesome things.

    I just discovered a grand vacation idea. Fly to Helsinki, take a train to a Russian port and then travel by boat to the North Pole. Ride a hot air balloon over the pole if weather permits.

  116. Pfessor….basic skills to survive in the modern world are taught by Mom and Dad. I highly doubt you depended on the state to teach these “basic skills”. I know every basic skill my son will ever need will be taught in my household.

    School builds on these basic skills.

    But, apparently you have the answer to fix society. So, I’m all ears.

  117. I heard the news Rutherford. I’m happy. Rice didn’t deserve a promotion, Let her keep her old job. I don’t hate her because Secretary of State is beyond her competancy level.

  118. Kentucky gets more tax money than it pays because the tax system is set to even out the money distribution to smooth the extremes between rich and poor.

    As Obama says rich states are doing their far share. Why not let the rich states keep a little more of their money and let Kentucky settle for $1.25?

  119. Rice lost out because Obama hung her out to swing in the wind. Obama could have released details as to what really happened in Benghazi, but he chose not to. So she pays the price.

  120. “Pfessor….basic skills to survive in the modern world are taught by Mom and Dad. I highly doubt you depended on the state to teach these “basic skills”. ”

    Your experiences and mine differ.

    reading: learned at school
    writing: learned at school
    math: school
    biology: ditto
    all medical skills, with which I make my living: school
    physics – which I use every time I work on any piece of farm equipment: school
    electricity, which I use EVERY day: school
    machine shop skills: school

    What did I learn at home? A few gardening skills, how to plow with a horse. How to wipe my ass. How to make a haystack, build a fire in the fireplace with coal. I really can’t think of much of anything else useful. Everything else – everything – none of which my kids are learning past a very, very basic level – learned at school.

  121. R@141. Love it! We need more politicians like this if for any other reason to lighten up the day :lol:

    Huck, nice to see you back. Hope you got that blood pressure thingy under control.
    I’ll have to admit there was a few times on this blog I wondered about mine ;-)

  122. We need more like that mayor. Maybe he knows Of Monsters and Men.

    Iceland has another distinction. They were the first to recognize Estonia’s freedom from the Soviet Union. Iceland is included in their monuments celebrating Estonia’s freedom.

    The manager of a local farmers. co op is from Iceland.

  123. R@137. I wasn’t a Rice hater but after researching her creds I really didn’t think she was qualified. On another note it would have been too confusing have two “Rices” as Sec of State. The Middle East might not have been able to grasp that one was not the same as the other only because they were both female and black. Put them both in a burka and no one can tell them apart. (yes, I’m being sarcastic ;-).

  124. Rutherford 66…ummm Fuck you too.
    I am so sick of your nationalistic jingoistic paranoid bullsh*t. It’s one reason you lost the last election.
    Absolute bollocks, especially given the unilateral actions of Obama I don’t see where you have a leg to stand on there.
    Huck…good to know you’re alive. I never imagined you such a multilateralist,am I reading you wrong? Perhaps you are just into realism thus a whiff of multilateralism.
    Anyway back to Rutherford. The USA is and always has been pretty keen on its sovereignty and as such should steer clear of the UN. Even in the cases you and others (thor ? lurker?) would applaud the UN you seemingly miss the point that the USA in those cases manipulate the hell out of them. It should also be a worthy trip through history for you if you looked at some of the non US,non UN agency specific actions of the UN. Not really anything to write home about in my opinion.

  125. @ Raji…actually Susan Rice is as qualified as many for the position of SecState. She is a dangerous choice given her devotion to multilateralism and her being enamored with a number of international/UN models such as R2P. I think John Kerry is also a bad idea but offers a win win. In places like Europe he’ll play well and in others he’ll bore the folks across the table to sleep. One way or another I think the next four years on the diplomatic front will be little more than the status quo.
    I think some of the issues that will prove interesting distractions will include:
    The “new” state of Palestine and all that will entail.
    The new Euro banking measures going into effect.
    China.
    Some things I think will go unnoticed/addressed include:
    Inroads by Europe and China diplomatically and financially in Latin America,fka as our “backyard”.
    How far spherics are along in their evolution.

  126. Pfessor. You dumb ass. You worked a plow your entire life. The entire time busting your ass at school was working a plow. Working a plow is that basic skill I speak of. Had you not been smart enough to be a doctor you would have worked a plow in some other fashion. Its the result of having a Mom and Dad that provided structure.

  127. and others (thor ? lurker?)

    Not sure why I showed up there. I don’t really care about the UN one way or another.

    I did like that movie, “The Interpreter.”

  128. “Huck…good to know you’re alive. I never imagined you such a multilateralist,am I reading you wrong? Perhaps you are just into realism thus a whiff of multilateralism.”

    It’s probably better if I am clear as to what you are referring before I respond.

    On Susan Rice…I actually don’t have a problem with her actions regarding the infamous Sunday talk show incident. A diplomat’s job is not to put forth the truth. A diplomat’s job is to put for the positions of the administration. If the administration wants to spread BS everywhere, then that is what the diplomat spreads. All Susan Rice did was what she was told.

    I do have a problem with Obama using the UN ambassador to spread his BS to the American people…as if we are some foreign body. Neither what happened in Libya nor who it happened to had anything to do with the UN. If Obama wanted to tell us lies, he should have sent Hillary to do it. She was Stevens’ boss…not Susan Rice.

    Rutherford, you want to blame someone for what happened to Susan Rice…blame her 2 bosses.

    With that said…other than being a loyal mouthpiece, she isn’t that great a diplomat. She is known for trying bully tactics. That might play well when we are able to negotiate from positions of strength, but in a forum like the UN General Assembly, where 1 country gets 1 vote, it doesn’t go over very well. Don’t believe me?…then believe this…

    “Insiders say Rice is ambitious and aggressive. Colum Lynch of the Washington Post and Foreign Policy told CNN that one of her nicknames at the U.N. Security Council is “The Bulldozer.”

    “I think that everyone has complicated feelings about her,” Lynch said.

    He characterized her as “very personable, likeable, charming, smart, funny, down to earth” but also someone with sharp elbows.

    “You don’t want to get in the way of her, and whether that’s a point to her advantage or a point against her, well, I guess it depends on who you are asking,” Lynch said.”

    http://us.cnn.com/2012/11/27/politics/susan-rice-profile/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

    We had a guy like that in the UN in the past. His name was John Bolton. Remember him? He won’t go down in history as a successful diplomat.

    On Obama’s BS….If the claim is that Susan Rice had to lie 5 days after Benghazi because calling it terrorism would have put assets at risk, then didn’t Obama put assets at risk when he “supposedly” called it terrorism in the Rose Garden the day after it happened?

  129. Big talk for a guy whose state takes $1.75 from DC for every $1 it pays.

    Exactly Thor! It’s what I’ve been saying. All these dumb-f*ck moocher states, to use the Romney paradigm, have the nerve to complain about the Federal Government. I say let them secede and find out in a heartbeat what it’s like to be a third world country.

  130. The Middle East might not have been able to grasp that one was not the same as the other only because they were both female and black.

    Screw that — judging from some polls and Jay Leno’s “Jaywalking”, about 50% of America might not have known they were two different people! :-)

  131. A couple of points on the Susan Rice thing.

    First, to answer Huck, I believe Hillary was asked to do the Sunday talk show marathon and refused. Rice was then tapped.

    This Rice thing has me pissed and not at who you might expect. Not at McCain, not at Graham, not at Ayote. I’m pissed at Obama. I’d bet dollars to donuts he had his cronies pressure Rice to take her name out of contention. It makes his vociferous defense of her a couple of weeks ago look like BS.

    Look at it this way — by prematurely bowing out, Rice denies the POTUS the opportunity to fight the good fight if he wants to do so. So she’s not doing him any favors by dropping out. She’s limiting HIS choices. That is unless he really wanted her to bow out and somehow made it known, which is my suspicion. Folks who wanted to slap McCain’s ass now have to sit quiet because the Prez punked out again.

    Oh and one more thing. Why is Hillary Clinton being lauded as a great Secretary of State? Can anyone point to a single diplomatic triumph that she had a hand in within the past 4 years? If anything, she’s just engaged in damage control and stayed out of really sticky sh*t (like letting Morsi grab all the glory in the Gaza/Israel thing … why didn’t she play a more noticeable role?) I’m not saying she was a bad Sec of State, per se, but she ain’t no superstar either.

  132. “First, to answer Huck, I believe Hillary was asked to do the Sunday talk show marathon and refused.”

    I know that. I guess he forgot who the boss was in that relationship. Or maybe he was just too afraid of crossing Bubba, who he needed to give a nice speech for him a few weeks later.

    ” I’d bet dollars to donuts he had his cronies pressure Rice to take her name out of contention.”

    Of course he did. He wants Benghazi to go away. The press can’t make that happen for him if the face of his lie is under Senate confirmation scrutiny. Now the coverup can continue and all will soon be forgotten.

    “Why is Hillary Clinton being lauded as a great Secretary of State? Can anyone point to a single diplomatic triumph that she had a hand in within the past 4 years? If anything, she’s just engaged in damage control and stayed out of really sticky sh*t”

    That is kinda why she has been a great Sec. of State. As I said above, a diplomat’s job is to put forth the positions of the administration. Obama is reactionary on international matters. Some see that as a strength, others a fault. But either way, it doesn’t make for diplomatic greatness.

    She works hard and doesn’t make mistakes. I think she has done ok.

  133. “(like letting Morsi grab all the glory in the Gaza/Israel thing … why didn’t she play a more noticeable role?)”

    Because, if I am right, Obama doesn’t have the balls to go on record as saying to Egypt and especially Israel “You had all better get this settled or I am cutting off the money.” (To which Morsi may have replied, “Fine I will keep this a secret but I don’t want to hear squat from you when I make my power grab in a couple days.”)

    Not that he wouldn’t do it, because I think maybe he did. I just don’t think he’d want it to get out that he did.

    You gotta go back to George HW Bush for stones that big.

  134. “Pfessor. You dumb ass. You worked a plow your entire life. The entire time busting your ass at school was working a plow. Working a plow is that basic skill I speak of. Had you not been smart enough to be a doctor you would have worked a plow in some other fashion. Its the result of having a Mom and Dad that provided structure.”

    You can get into silly metaphors all you want; the fact is that you, I and everybody else survives and prospers through what he learned in school. It’s a trivial exercise to compare the lives of educated and uneducated citizens. Although I appreciate your despair that what YOU do has any value, it DOES, and its poor execution is driving your country into third-world status. Yes – principled, disciplined parents are important, but in the modern day it cannot begin to compensate for the kind of fourth-rate education that American kids are receiving.

  135. “I know that. I guess he forgot who the boss was in that relationship. Or maybe he was just too afraid of crossing Bubba, who he needed to give a nice speech for him a few weeks later.”

    Huck hit the nail on the head with that statement!

    R@153 Ohhhhhh! that’s scary but true.

    Alfie, you are correct about Rice’s creds. I think I was referring to her sharp elbows as much as anything else. I consider the position of Sec of State to be a “diplomatic” position.
    Kerry would probably put everyone to sleep ;-) Do you think he would be respected?

  136. PF I tend to lean towards DR’s plow theory. Parents do produce the motivating factor that instills in the child a willingness to achieve in school. Yes, there is the rare student who overcomes negative parental influence but basically all parents want their child to achieve more than they did.

  137. Susan Rice may have the technical skills to be Secretary of State, but she carried other performance flaws besides the lie she told. It showed her to be ether gullible or one with slavish devotion to her boss. Since the Middle East policy was partly from her influence, she also had a steak in hiding its failures.

    She didn’t have to lie. When Nixon conducted the Saturday Night Massacre, the official he first chose to deliver the news of firings resigned on grounds of conscious.

    Had she been a candidate for Secretary of State, Republicans would have asked questions implicating Obama and Hillary. It would have been the next best thing to an impeachement hearing.

    I agree with Rutherford. Obama and maybe Hillary are to blame for Rice’s problems, though she is responsible too.

  138. Any opinions out there as to whether or not QE3 have been effective or are we just throwing more money down the tube? I’m not finding a lot of current information.

    “The central bank committed to monthly purchases of $45 billion in Treasuries on top of the $40 billion per month in mortgage-backed bonds it started buying in September. It also said it will keep its near-zero interest-rate program in place until the U.S. unemployment rate falls to 6.5 percent from its current 7.7 percent.”

    http://news.yahoo.com/stock-futures-edge-higher-focus-fed-110708542–finance.html

  139. Sometimes, children motivate themselves. The late seventies and eighties farm recession cost so many farmers their land that our courthouse lawn displayed crosses representing the lost families. John Melencamp’s song “Blood on the Plow” described the farm crisis and he along with Willie Nelson and Neil Young helped orginize Farm Aid.

    Several of our son’s class families lost their homes, and they decided that if one didn’t make it, none would. The class became a clique and worked together. They became obscessed with getting out through education. Our daughter’s class began to copy them. Given that background and our pushing our children with our work ethic, they didn’t have a chance.

    Our son’s class graduated with over half of the students in the National Honor Society, and 70% on the honor roll.They earned more schollarships and aide than any class in the previous twenty years or a decade later. Our daughter’s class came in second.

    It fell apart when they were seperated after graduation. Our son attended the high school graduation of a class mate’s brother and the first thing his high school classmate said when she saw him was “Not many of us made it did we?” Ouf son and the girl were the only four to graduate from college.

    Both classes are successful now, with some finishing college or tech training a decade later.

    My wife’s teaching collegues said they had never in their carreers seen a class like our son’s.

  140. Raji@160
    William Claude Dukenfield summed it up: the race is not always to the swift nor the battle to the strong, but that’s how to bet. We can always dredge up stories of fellows with a first-grade education who did well, but they are so rare as to be inconsiderable. All you have to do is look at employment figures for today’s graduates: to the foreign, well-educated go the doctors’, engineers’ highly-compensated jobs; most grads from American high schools couldn’t pour piss out of a boot. I finished training as an EE in 2000; there was not a single white boy in the master’s or Ph.D. program, in a state with about 10% minority pop. Trying to shift the problem to thr parents exclusively may make the “educators” feel better, but it does not make it true.

  141. Sorry to hear about your cousin, Huck. I know you were close.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I don’t know if we’ll ever get a straight story about the Benghazi incident. In that way it’s similar to the OBL take down, the story changes whenever retold. I agree with 151. Rice was just a mouthpiece and as such is not able to speak freely.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    QE3,4,5,6,….. ALL criminal and approved by our government. A slow transference of our national wealth into bankers’ hands. But overall, a helpful tool in establishing local currencies and securing a stronger barter system.

    A country boy can survive.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    7 days till the end of the world or 10 shopping days left until Christmas. Plan accordingly. :smile:

  142. I finished training as an EE in 2000; there was not a single white boy in the master’s or Ph.D. program, in a state with about 10% minority pop.

    C’mon now PF, you know that has nothing to do with poor education and everything to do with that dreaded affirmative action. Haven’t you lectured me on how all these genius white kids are getting screwed over? ;-)

  143. Huck, just so we’re clear … and because I haven’t actually heard your full opinion on the matter, what exactly is Obama covering up vis-a-vis Benghazi? If you say it was a covert CIA operation in which Stevens was up to his nose, then I agree with you. I’d have trouble accepting other explanations.

    By the way, I think the notion of any POTUS bossing around his Secretary of State is a bit ridiculous. Cabinet positions have stature. No POTUS would pick a fight with a cabinet officer over a silly series of talk shows. So no, I don’t find it the least bit unusual that Obama would not force Hillary to go on Meet the Press.

  144. “what exactly is Obama covering up vis-a-vis Benghazi?”

    Why we were lied to and where the lies originated.

    I don’t buy the BS about this or that agency redacted info and told her to lie to protect assets. Her job is to represent the Obama administration…not the CIA or anyone else.

    I think Obama went into the Rose Garden, said “terrorist attack,” then his campaign handlers realized they could take advantage of the movie protest narrative instead. Why let a crisis go to waste? Saying it was a terrorist attack by an Al Qaeda affiliate didn’t fit in with the pre-election narrative that we have AQ all but destroyed.

    “I think the notion of any POTUS bossing around his Secretary of State is a bit ridiculous”

    The duty of that position is to represent the positions of the administration. If the president tells the Sec. of State to go somewhere and say something, it is their duty to do it or resign. Go ask Colin Powell, he’ll tell you all about it.

    “No POTUS would pick a fight with a cabinet officer over a silly series of talk shows.”

    If they were so silly then why was it done? Why did he ask his top diplomat to do it? And when she refused why send basically the next highest diplomat?

    If it was so silly he could have sent DWS or Axelrod.

  145. I’m also sorry your cousin died,Huck.

    That school shooting is horrendous.

    I wrote almost what Huck wrote back in September, i believe.
    Hot Air on Dec 6 quoted a New York Times article.”Obama admin approved of secrete weapons deals that ended up arming Islamists in Libya.”

    The administration was desperate to cover their blunder ahead of the election.They sacrificed Susan Rice to buy a little time. They politicized the attack to won an election. An investigation would probably reveal more surprises than Obamacare, but we won’t know until people go under oath as during an impeachment hearing.

  146. Pfessor, my school turns out quite a few engineers. The community is upper middle class and somewhat traditional. I would say every kid who wants to be and engineer becomes one. I will say that not enough want to become one, but why is that?

    I worked at a failing school in a lower middle class community and nope, not many engineers.

    Failing communities equals failing schools.

    I have been the poster boy for both failing teacher and succesful teacher. How do you explain that?

    The stats get very skewed due to the failed communities.

    The skills needed to be a good teacher are not something that is learned. I know this sound nausatingly egotistical and I’m prepared to get hammered over this. But it’s a personality trait. There simply aren’t enough people in America with the character traits needed that choose to go into the profession. In reality, the majority work very hard and end up kind of average.

    Yeah….the union sometimes save the dead beats. It’s pathetic but not the norm. Get rid of the union. I don’t even care anymore. It won’t solve the problem. Most charter schools perform worse then the national average, while out performing the post apocalyptic public schools next door.

    As a whole, it’s much harder to get away with being a slacker teacher now 25 years ago.

    Parents either don’t give a fuck about their kids or are so defensive that they coddle them to the point of rendering them helpless.

    The parents, ie the tax payers, demand good grades more then anything else. And they get them.

    We had a dude they hired this year that I knew wouldn’t last until Chirstmas. Very, very smart but meek as all hell. I’ve never met a more enthusiastic teacher to start the year. By October he sobbed in the office when he was let go. The kids ate him alive. A shame, he loved science. What should have he done different? Motivated. Knew his material through and through. Enthusiastic. But, an effeminate little nerd. Poor guy.

    Most unsuccessful teachers fall into his category, to a lesser extent. They are not lazy, they are fucking dweebs. And the youth today are taught that need not respect authority if they are bored or annoyed.

    Teachers may suck. But it’s the same rate of suck that was in 1960s.

  147. Man….I am seriously sick to my stomach. I literally feel like fucking crying over what happened at that school.

    Makes me question why I’ve brought innocent little ones into this world.

    I can feel the depression seeping over me like a fog. I made the mistake of looking at a story where they show a crying mom at the scene on the phone.

    I hate the evil in this world and wonder if I should just hate the whole damn world, period.

    Who could do this? I understand anger. I understand violence. Go out looking for a fight. Done it dozens of times. I even can understand loosing your cool and killing somebody.

    How can a human being have it in them to do this to little kids? How can you not understand the pain and the sorrow you dished out to those parents and the rest of the country.

    I wish Tex still came around here.

  148. I share your feelings DR. I have a 19 month and a 1 month and I wonder how after seeing things like this I will ever be able to send them off to school and feel they are safe. My wife is brilliant in math up to but not including calculus. We often talk about if we could successfully home school them. I am just sick over this, I cannot imagine what those parents are feeling.

  149. Locking doors. School room doors should be locked at all times. I keep mine locked. That simple precaution can be huge.

    Noah…my gut reaction was the same. But, you can’t hide all of your life. These cowards like soft targets. You could homeschool your kids and then have it happen at the movie theater or water park.

    The reality is the odds of this happening are small.

    But damn….I grieve for those parents. And little kids. Poor little kids. This is what life gave them. Executed in kindergarten class.

    I’m having a hard time with this. Those poor parents. What I wouldn’t do to take some of their pain off their shoulders.

  150. DR: my kids’ school winter fest was last night. The same ages as those school children in CT. I am sick to my stomach. Numb since I read about it. I too would give anything to relieve the parents’ unimaginable pain.

    Sorry but I won’t be sticking around. The usual bullshit soon to come from R will be too much to bear. And it looks like it’s already started on his beloved networks.

  151. According to the brother he didn’t kill, the guy has some pretty severe issues. Autism, personality disorder, obsessive-compulsive disorder. It seems he stole the weapons from his mother. I don’t think he even lived with her. There is still so much we don’t know.

    I don’t think we will ever get an answer as to why. And if the reports of his mental state are true, it makes it tough to even blame inherent evil.

  152. OMG, this tragedy is so hard to wrap around the mind. Why oh why do these tragedies occur?

    Our drug habits are tracked as well as our banking habits. Just try making a large deposit to your account and watch the red flags fly. So why can’t our gun and ammo purchases be as easily red flagged?

  153. We lived through this during the Von Maurer mall shooting in Omaha. Our daughter, a therapist, had dealings with the shooter and some of his associates. If memory serves me, 11 died and some were wounded. She often stopped at the mall to visit a school friend who worked at Von Maurer, and when she didn’t answer her phone, we feared the worst..

    We couldn’t reach her until almost 10PM because all in the therapy center were meeting to decide what to tell and not to tell the press and police.

    Those families will have holes in their hearts for the rest of their lives.

    I hope you stick around El Tigre.

  154. Our daughter’s friend bought what she called a funeral fur coat for the multiple funerals. Our daughter coaxed her back into the mall, and it was hard. She saw “dead people” in the crowds.

    Von Maurer paid for its employees counseling. The survivors are just beginning a difficult time after the crisis wears off.

  155. Man….have I seen many kids go through the system that I think are capable of a killing spree. Deranged, detached, disturbed……they might have some official mental diagnosis….but they are just weird as fuck. Loners with crazy eyes.

  156. I am in a daze which is actually quite out of character for me.Going back to my time in the military and then in EMS/911 I’ve always had a weakness for kids. Other age groups suffering never moved me,folks find me quite cold in that regard. When its kids though I’m totally different. Can’t stop thinking about toy boxes with a favorite toy left out for after school play and unwrapped,newly purchased gifts hiding in closets that are no longer destined for under the tree.

    I’m sickened by the punditry and talking heads on this. I swear I could shoot Hizzoner Bloomburg.
    I’d love to chat up three or four things (school,Rice,FIAT) but really can’t muster it.
    I’ll just close wishing folks all the good things of the Season.Cheers!

  157. “The usual bullshit soon to come from R will be too much to bear.”

    Hey Tigre, fuck you big time. Families devastated with their precious children gone forever and I’M too much to bear?

    Fuck you.

  158. “So why can’t our gun and ammo purchases be as easily red flagged?”

    Don’t want to step on anyone’s precious 2nd amendment rights. That’s why.

    I need to stay off this thread for a bit. I’m too pissed off.

  159. “Our drug habits are tracked…”

    Only our legal ones. When drugs are stolen from a parent’s medicine chest, they aren’t.

    “So why can’t our gun and ammo purchases be as easily red flagged?”

    We tried tracking guns. It didn’t work out too well.

  160. “So why can’t our gun and ammo purchases be as easily red flagged?”

    “Don’t want to step on anyone’s precious 2nd amendment rights. That’s why.”

    “In China today some dude slashed 30 kids in school with a knife.”

    Disarming people only disarms the innocent. Do you really think that someone who is bent on committing murder will care if it is illegal to have that fire arm. As you can see about the news from China, no gun was required. Use your heads for something other than a hat rack. People bent on harming others will always find a way.

  161. Yeah.

    “Like Hey Tigre, fuck you big time. Families devastated with their precious children gone forever and I’M too much to bear?”

    No. Fuck you tough guy.

    Those that were here remember the little girl that got shot along with Giffords. Her name was Christan. She was 9.

    Remember?

    You were repeating MSNBC and blaming Palin.

  162. Tigre either you can’t spell or your grieving memory is a total joke.

    Her name was Christina, not Christan.

    Like I said, fuck you. Go back to BiW’s where you can circle jerk around the 2nd Amendment.

  163. I got money that says Rutherford cannot piece together even a plagiarized argument like this post and give us an reasoned argument how taking all the guns away will solve the problem.

  164. I feel compelled to point out that swearing at each other doesn’t seem like a good way to mourn 20 dead children.

  165. School room doors should be locked at all times.

    Very short anecdote:

    Several weeks ago, lockdown drill at my daughter’s school. She came home that day and told me that a policeman broke through one of the classroom doors (and shouldn’t have been able to).

    I wrote the Principal that evening and said basically the following:

    1) I know kids perceive things wrong sometimes so is what my daughter told me true?
    2) If it is true, why were parents not informed that the drill revealed that a classroom had a faulty door … and what the action plan would be to fix it?

    The principal told me that drill results are not communicated to parents so as not to alarm them. So my question is how are school officials held accountable to make sure these drills result in corrective action plans?

    In his defense, the principal did not totally dismiss my concern.

  166. Huck I respect your opinion in 193 but Tigre didn’t come on here to mourn or pay respect or ponder the sadness of it all and leave it at that. He had to make a dumb-ass comment about me … in MY house, and I’ve had quite enough of it.

  167. “17 people shot and its not even a hometown conversation? I guess dead niggas are bad etiquette for a luncheon conversation at a liberal love fest.”

    This just came to mind….

  168. “C’mon now PF, you know that has nothing to do with poor education and everything to do with that dreaded affirmative action. Haven’t you lectured me on how all these genius white kids are getting screwed over? ”

    You have me there, except for one small point. The grad students aren’t black, so they are not eligible for affirmative action; they are Oriental, Persian, Paki, Indian &c. No being dragged through the system for them: they actually have to know their art in order to pass.

    Black engineering grad students? I’ve seen ONE black engineering student, period – and that was a girl in undergrad.

  169. Raji questioned: ” So why can’t our gun and ammo purchases be as easily red flagged?”

    There are millions upon millions of guns already out there; I’d wager that the shooter did not purchase a new gun, new ammo or a large quantity of it – but whether he did or not, thirty or forty rounds is just a box or two of ammo, depending upon the round – a very typical purchase that wouldn’t be flagged. And a lone wolf who does not plan on escape is nearly unstoppable.

    DR – re: education in America. This is something I have been involved in since the mid-‘eighties, when “A Nation at Risk” came out. I ran for – and won – a position on a local school board when I didn’t even have kids, and no plans for any. I have spent uncounted hours researching and pondering what has has happened to our education system, so it is not a Tex-style arm-flinging, froth-at-the-mouth opinion I offer.

    I know it seems like I focus on the teachers, but they are not the problem – at least not by themselves. The problem is SYSTEMIC, not just a question of one simple fix like “fire the bad teachers.” Poor teachers are a part, but not a big one. It is not that hard to teach third-graders; I’ve done it; it’s actually a delight. It is not just teachers’ unions protecting incompetent instructors, but they are a BIG factor. It is not just poorly motivated parents or feckless administrators or vicious students, but they are also a big factor. It is not just Federal requirements that eat up precious teachers’ instruction time, but that is a MAJOR factor, too.

    It is a systemic problem and the name of that problem is priority. We pay lip service to discipline, but refuse to get serious about it. We allow lawyers to drive the whole process through fear of lawsuits, administrators never put a policy in place without checking with the Legal Department. We have lost our focus on education and instead focus on dozens of things like service personnel rights of collective bargaining that don’t put a single fact in a single pupil’s head. Our kids are just as bright as ever, but the system – from parents on down – is a giant incompetent cesspool of misplaced priorities. We Have The Means; What We Do Not Have Is The Will.

    Just my .05. I could be wrong.

    But I’m not.

  170. Alfie @185 expressed my sentiments especially with the image of “gifts hiding in the closets”. For the rest of you I know deep down under that screaming facade you feel the same.
    Thank you Huck @193

  171. Rutherford, just so you know I do feel Tigre’s comments a bit out of line especially since he used this opportunity to return to the blog and hope that a dig to you wasn’t his main reason.

  172. No….Tigre came here to say how bad this latest tragedy hurts and wanted to get out of here before the usuall politically motivated which hunt by Rutherford. Rutherford’s offense is a joke. Raji, if you were around for some of these other times you would know exactly what Im talking about. Rutherford made these other tragedies even harder to deal with.

    Rutherford seems to be dealing with this one differently….which is some relief.

  173. Pfessor, you think teaching 3rd grade is easy? I couldn’t do it for 200 grand a year. What, did you show up and read the kids a book one day or talk about being a doctor?

    Hell….my job might be easy. But elementary school? You gotta be kidding me!

    Reminds me how dudes will say roofing is kind of easy because they helped their buddy roof his garage once.

    Pfessor, I never took you as you the soft spoken, patient Mr. Rogers type creatively spending all evening crafting dozens of daily educational activities for 8 year olds all the while communicating with irrational parents in a calm reassuring tone. Of course, I could be wrong. And if so, how come you didn’t chose to spend 30 years of your life teaching the little ones?

    30 years streight of spending your entire day with snot dripping, whining 8 year olds.

    Sounds like pergatory to me, summers off be damned.

  174. Anyone ever read the Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelious’s book Meditions? Here we have the most powerful man in the world fully aware of his own morality and humble role in the grand scheme of things. The ultimate self help book for stoics. Don’t let your emotions get in the way of doing the right thing. Yet, despite it all, he couldn’t see the character flaws in his own son Commodus. Made the mad man the next emperor.

    It’s so hard for people to admit character flaws in their own children. It might be the hardest thing to do in life. I wonder if I will have the strength if my son, God forbid, turned out wrong, even evil.

    I teach him everyday that he is a protecter. I started off telling him he is protecter of his baby brother. I have now expanded it to all babies and women. He now refers to himself as the protector of babies like some medieval knight. How come I never hear this lesson in church where all the men do nothing but sing fruity songs?

    These killers are never women.

    My tattoos are cheesy. But, I already got so many why stop now? I use them to teach my son, although I tell him true tough guys don’t need them, they are a fad. My wife’s name, my sons’ initials, my time in the navy, my home state, a compass for direction. All the things that are important to me. Again. Corn ball as fuck. I know.

    I’m getting new one. St. Micheal. Defender of the defenseless. Do men have any role more important?

    This should be a lesson we teach our boys early.

  175. I’ve read the book, rabbit, and my parents taught me the same as yours did. My father was one of the toughest men i knew, and he only swore once that I can recall. Our children learned from us.

    A college professor told us the system is messed up.Post doctorates should be teaching kindergarten and people with BA degrees ought to be teaching high school.

  176. How come I never hear this lesson in church where all the men do nothing but sing fruity songs?

    Maybe you haven’t attended the right church. The real church spends most of its time battling in the spiritual realm, similar to the first church as documented in the book of Acts.. Of course, you must firmly believe in the supernatural, a problem with most church attendees in this country today. Some folks have real experience with the supernatural. Unless you know your enemy, you will likely fall prey to his schemes.

    Kids need to be equipped to deal with evil and recognize it. It is so woven into the fabric of our society that it is difficult to discern.

  177. Personally I have no problem with tattoos. I would ask my kids that they consider their placement and what it is they are permanently putting on their body. My brothers friend has a F U C K U on each of his fingers between the top and second knuckles on his right hand. There are consequences for that choice he can never live down when shaking someone’s hand. If they are personal to you, and in reasonable taste, I see nothing wrong with it

  178. Estonian singer Kerli asked her mother for permission to get a tattoo. Her mother told her she would have to read all of the town’s books on China and prove it . She did .

  179. DR have you ever seen that old HBO show The Wire? It had various facets of life in Baltimore. Drugs, politics, etc. 1 thing it showed was the inner city school system there.

    I watched all of its seasons a few months ago. I always thought of you when watching the school portions.

  180. Huck, the Wire was great. And the school season was awesome. That being said, I now work in the exact opposite environment as portrayed on that show. I thought the show did a very realistic job of an inner city school.

  181. Not to clutter things but…

    Children who died
    Charlotte Bacon, 6
    Daniel Barden, 7
    Olivia Engel, 6
    Josephine Gay, 7
    Ana Marquez-Greene, 6
    Dylan Hockley, 6
    Madeleine Hsu, 6
    Catherine Hubbard, 6
    Chase Kowalski, 7
    Jesse Lewis, 6
    James Mattioli, 6
    Grace McDonnell, 7
    Emilie Parker, 6
    Jack Pinto, 6
    Noah Pozner, 6
    Caroline Previdi, 6
    Jessica Rekos, 6
    Avielle Richman, 6
    Benjamin Wheeler, 6
    Allison Wyatt, 6
    That has some ummph. That’s not a roster anyone expects to see in this sense.

  182. I can’t eat since this happened. I feel worse over this then I did 911.

    I’ll be dong something for 4 or 5 minutes but then it comes into my mind and I’m overwhelmed with sadness.

    I got to snap out of this.

    I took the baby and the boy to see Santa last night and the entire time there I thought about what happened. My smile was fake.

    You know how you can donate blood. I wish there was a place where you can show up and they inject you with the pain of others, taking the load off them.

    This world is fucking sick.

  183. DR –
    God I know how you feel. Do you remember that bitch in South Carolina who drowned her two boys in their car seats because of some goddamned boyfriend who felt they would be an obstruction to their “relationship?”

    After they found the car, my cousin and I were at the Y, getting a shower after a game of racquetball. He told me that when they pulled the car out of the pond the boys were holding hands. I got so broke up that I had to run out of the shower and get my clothes and go home.

    I’ll show you how crazy I am: Later that night I wrote a letter to the governor of SC and told him that I was an doctor and an EE, and that if she were convicted I would be glad to come down and use my EE skills to ensure that their electric chair was working properly, repair it if necessary, throw the switch myself and as a doctor pronounce her dead – all at no cost to the State. Jesus, that was a bad time…

    Shit gets to a person. That one got to me. This one gets to me too.

  184. The grad students aren’t black, so they are not eligible for affirmative action

    Not so fast there Bucko! I know for a fact these schools count the number of foreign admissions as part of their diversity spread. It may not be what you call affirmative action (admitting unqualified minorities) but it is affirmative action just the same.

    If you don’t think there is some resentment among white folk at all the Indians, Paki’s etc. getting into these schools, you’re kidding yourself.

  185. a compass for direction

    Sorry but I found this funny. I picture Rabbit looking at his forearm to figure out what direction he’s going in.

    As for your defense of Tigre, Rabbit … it’s to be expected. You don’t know a-hole behavior when you see it sometimes.

  186. It’s never a good time for a massacre but think about it Alfie, all those kids at Christmas time.

    I’ve got one helluva lot to say about this but I’m holding my tongue for now. I’m just not up to the push back at this point. Fortunately I’ve been able to vent with a more appropriate person, my wife, rather than this blog venue. :neutral:

  187. PF, not for nuthin but if I recall, that SC psycho blamed some ill described “black man” for the crime. Always the convenient defense — the butler did it. :-(

  188. Rabbit I hope you feel better soon. I envy you and the others who can feel such emotional pain.

    Twenty kids didn’t die alone. Thousands of future babies wating in line to be born and live long lives died with them.

    Rutherford, we didn’t resent the foreigners when I was in college. They were novelties and fun to be around. I might resent them now, but native born blacks probably resent the foreigners too,

  189. R @ 218 – Yep. Blamed a black guy. She’s a double asshole.

    Smith – Susan Smith is her name. I think she’s still in the Big House somewhere.

    FWIW, Rutherford – appreciate your restraint on this one.

  190. DR, there is something we ALL can do other than wish for a pain transfusion. That is follow your version of what went wrong and why and then fight to stop it. So for example, I know you believe in gun rights and you don’t think guns are the problem, so might you be more focused on mental health? In that case, give your money or your time to helping ticking time bombs not go off like this psycho did.

    I’m giving serious thought to donating to the Brady Campaign. I’m so cash poor right now that I can only in good conscience to my family give 5 or 10 dollars .. a tiny drop in the bucket for what they probably need.

  191. LOL PF, regarding my restraint, I’m surprised you guys’ ears aren’t burning based on what I’ve been screaming around the house.

    I couldn’t be completely restrained so I posted a short post on it and I deliberately disabled commenting.

    I have no idea when I’ll write my next post. Everything else there is to write about is totally trivial compared to this tragedy.

  192. You cant have guns in Chicago and DC, and look at their gun crime and murder rate. Subject closed, game set and match. Btw, more people are killed by bats than by guns. Going to outlaw baseball? You should if your reasoning for getting rid of guns is consistent…ie guns kills people.

  193. Two things: James, to be clear I’m not being quiet because it is too early. I’m being quiet because the push back will simply make me angrier and I need to maintain what little is left of my mental health.

    Second, an update to my 222, I just made a small donation to the Brady Campaign. Talk is f*cking cheap. I’m waiting for President Obama to figure that out.

  194. Oh that’s what you meant, Rutherford.

    Your choice means the effect is still the same. I think everyone needs a a day or so, at least until after the funerals to gain control and to show a little respect.

    I visited and commented on the fat grannies site for the first time since January. Almost the whole cast seems to be gone, at least today. I still think they are a waste of my time.

  195. Rutherford….I’ve seen asshole behaivor, dude. I still have your tweets. Im not going to get all bent out of shape over your calls for gun control. I don’t let a child’s response to a horrible situation get me miffed.

    Im at the bar drinking. Im on my 9th pint. Sometimes I just got a do what I got to do you motherfuckers.

  196. Rutherford, restraint is hard as the emotions are still raw. Sadly in a week this will be past news unless as Alfie did the children’s names and ages are posted.
    The real tragedy here is there is no answer. Gun control will not stop the illegal use of guns or the crazies who use them. What will happen is more and more security until we are at the point we pass from one security check point to another. One shoe bomber = remove shoes at security. We can no more control mental illness than we can control gun and drug abuse. Our children will never know the freedom we knew growing up.

  197. “Im at the bar drinking. Im on my 9th pint. Sometimes I just got a do what I got to do you motherfuckers.”

    Rabbit, have a tenth one for me.

  198. We let the media and our collective emotions get the better of us. Don’t think that was not the plan here. Nothing is happenstance, especially if you hear it from our media sources. Look for strict gun regulation legislation to make the rounds.

    It would do everyone good to research Operation Gladio (if you are unfamiliar), and understand it is still ongoing. Another thing one must realize is that all people are not inherently good. I know THAT is often the most difficult hurdle folks need to overcome. We want to blame insanity, when it often is plain and simple evil.

    Thankfully, there are some folks putting the pieces together where the MSM will not tread. This one is already rife with inconsistencies.

  199. Gun control helps only one group of people, the criminals. There are over 300 million guns out in the country, no one can unring this bell.

  200. I don’t know the ‘whys and wherefores,’ not sure I want to understand the mind of the mass murder. Maybe he was mentally ill, maybe he was pure evil, but I do know that now is the time to mourn the deaths of these tiny children and our own loss of innocence.

  201. I don’t let a child’s response to a horrible situation get me miffed.

    Interesting choice of words, Alfie listed 20 children who will never have a response to anything ever again. And while some simple gun control measures won’t 100% solve the problem, you’d rather not consider them because …. because why? Chemo and radiation are not 100% effective for every cancer. Do you turn those options down because the solution isn’t a complete solution?

    You see, this is exactly why I’ve been “restrained” on here. Because if I really let my emotions rule the day, it will get VERY nasty. Rabbit insults those who want to keep kids from getting shot at close range in a classroom where they belong, simply because he doesn’t like their suggested solution. Rabbit is the adult … who offers NOTHING but a desire for a fantasy “pain transfusion” and then throws back a bunch of drinks at a bar … and then has the NERVE to call me childish.

    Pffft.

  202. Our children will never know the freedom we knew growing up.

    Raji, the question is why? What has changed? I honestly don’t know. More violence on TV and video games? That’s just too easy. What has changed?

    The guns used in this atrocity were purchased legally by his mother who from early accounts, was a gun nut. YES ,,, I said it .. a gun nut. She was reportedly a “survivalist” who predicted economic doom and the need to be armed. She taught her kids to shoot. Now all this is the prelim story and I have no doubt the “facts” may change. But that is what I’ve heard most recently. As far as I’m concerned, those kid’s blood is on that dead mother’s hands as well as her dead wack-job son.

    And what some on this board don’t understand is that all this talk of defending yourself against the government by hording food and ammo leads to nuts like this woman and her far more unstable son. Based on prelim reports, I say she was a nut who could assimilate … take a stand that is popular among the conservative crowd here but her son was just over the edge.

    There were three guns used. I’m pretty sure the assault rifle would have been illegal if the assault weapons ban was still in place.

    Since I don’t have an air tight solution I guess there’s no sense trying to come up with ideas to solve the problem, so by Rabbit and Tigre’s estimation, I should STFU. :neutral:

  203. I agree. The woman has blood on her hands. Her son was weird as hell and everyone knew it. Guns locked. End of story.

  204. Now now Rutherford….we aren’t telling you to STFU. Talk about gun control all you want. Go for it….

    That was never the issue. Your behavior during the last couple killings was quite different then a gun control argument. Again, I still have the tweets.

  205. Im sorry for the child comment. I understand that you mean well with your gun control arguments.

    There are no answers for this. Honestly, I’m so torn up over it that if gun control fantasies make you feel somehow better….I want you to keep blabbing.

  206. Huck@235

    Those cowfuckers picketed at the mine where my best friend was killed nearly three years ago, along with 28 others. One of the “church” members started handing out flyers at a local convenience store, praising the miners’ deaths.

    There happened to be a burly miner there, on his way to work. One blow; they say the man’s feet never touched the earth as he leveled out about four feet above the ground. A state trooper who was directing traffic came over, arrested the “church” dude for disturbing the peace and told the miner to go on to work. Justice served.

    That female lawyer daughter has no idea how close she came to getting a high-powered rifle round between the tits; only having her kids with her saved her worthless ass, I’m told. Maybe somebody will make good this time. We can only hope. There is a limit, by God, and they are way past it.

  207. i have been agreeing with Newt a disturbingly large number of times. She is right. I wish I had some innocence to lose.

    Rutherford, my brief encounter at the other site showed the new group is less homogenous than the old. They range from “ban guns” to some “people need guns.”

    A high school freshman snapped because he thought the seniors were mistreating him during initiation. He left the school grounds and returned with a shot gun and ammunition with which he planed to kill the senior class. I was one of the junior high kids he aimed his weapon toward, but given his rant, I didn’t think I was in much danger.

    Our superintendent, a WW11 combat veteran spent about two hours talking him down. No one called the sherfif afterwards, but the student got extended in school detention after the seniors applogized to him.

  208. Our daughter had a personal connection to the Omaha Von Maurer shooter and his friends because they were her therapy clients.

    The young shooter had such a rotten relationship with his mother that she threw him out. His father wouldn’t let him live with him either. He moved in with a nurse who let other troubled young people stay with her from time to time.

    He had dropped out of school and friends said he was depressed. He also faced a misdemenear charge soon.

    He stole $20 from a co- worker at MC Donalds and was fired. He had a fight with his girl friend and an argument with the nurse. I don’t remember where he got the gun. The young man left a good bye note. He wrote he was going out in style and he would be famous. He then went to Von Maurer where he killed 8 people and wounded 5. It seemed half of our country was Christmas shopping on that day. Several people I know had harrowing narrow escapes. one was at a counter as he stood behind her with his rifle pointed at her head. Then, he turned, shot someone else and moved on.

    Our daughter’s high school friend and a co worker- hid behind a counter. The man shot the co worker and spared our daughter’s friend. Someone else we knew fled down an excalator and slipped on the blood.

    Some were heroes too. The police arrived after the shooter had killed himself, but they didn’t know it at the time. People at the time said it was a pity some of the customers weren’t armed. They might have been able to shoot the killer before he murdered all of the eight.

    As our daughter predicted, the nurse was arrested on drug charges and for contributing to the deliquency of a minor.because of the drugs she was distributing.

    Our daughter says some of these people are walking bombs waiting to the right conditions to dentonate them. One of her clients murdered two other of her clients. A third was killed by someone else. An armed client came to the office looking for one of the staff members whom he promised to kill.

    She was gone and our daughter helped talk him out of his plan. They called the police. Another client burned down one of the companie’s branch offices.

    Things happen. We are never entirely safe. Life carries risks. Sometimes a random decision makes us face death. Other times a similar choice will take us to safety and we will never know.

  209. “Raji, the question is why? What has changed? I honestly don’t know. More violence on TV and video games? That’s just too easy. What has changed?”

    Actually nothing has changed. In 1997 there were 4 school shootings, three of them mass shootings, 1998 there were 5, 3 being mass shootings and 1999 there were 5, 3 being mass shootings. Security measures in the school system were greatly enhanced in 1997 and security officials today feel the school system’s security measures are of sufficient quality according to the CDC.

    The after maths of Sept. 11 resulted in security systems to protect people in transportation and government buildings. As long as we have terrorists and mentally ill people willing to commit suicide we cannot protect ourselves from violence no matter what laws are implicated.

  210. Rutherford I will gladly have a civilized discussion with you on guns,violence and civil order.
    I have decided this triad must be the discussion point. Gun control is a false moniker tacked onto too many separate agendas and tied to too many emotionally charged points.It is the quintessential non-starter when it comes to the problems at hand.
    Some will say this is oversimplified nuance,I beg to differ.No one point in the trident is the end all,be all. Every tine is long with a myriad of topics clinging to it.We address it all or continue to fail.

  211. @ Raji
    You capture the essence of the problem.

    We are very much a reactive society. We need a dramatic paradigm shift to being a proactive one. The trick here is the same though given our legitimate passions for Constitution based freedoms.
    This dovetails into my #247 to Rutherford.

  212. “Another thing one must realize is that all people are not inherently good. I know THAT is often the most difficult hurdle folks need to overcome.”

    Just like any other wild animal on earth – humans need to be domesticated or tamed as well. Some adjust to it better than others.

  213. I own a revolver that shoots 410 shot shells and .45 ACP. While its not exactly traditional, it’s nothing more then an old fashion wheel gun to protect the fam. The .45 bullets use what is called a moon clip. The moon clips hold six bullets at a time. It takes seconds to reload a moon clip. He could have done the same thing he did with those rifles as he could have with my revolver. In fact, the rifle can be grabbed easier at close quarters. Not my revolver. There is no restrictions on fire arms that could have stopped this unless guns were banned and the millions that currently exist vanished in thin air.

  214. The worst killing in US history may have happened in Michigan in 1927 when an angry school board member blew up 38 people, including himself.

  215. As for the backlash – no doubt they will cast a wider net than autism. They will be enterprising in their unstoppable efforts to offload the burden onto many people that they don’t understand. It’s already begun.

    I’m hearing that the misinformation being put out by social media sites will result in prosecution. If only.

    So maybe the drinking didn’t help, rabbit, but yesterday threatened to break all of Earth’s spirits. I knew where you were and I needed only to look as far as the nearest field of rye.

  216. “The hacking collective known as Anonymous renewed their war on the Westboro Baptist Church today. After the haters from the infamous church posted their intentions to picket the funerals of the twenty children killed in the shooting at the Sandy Hook Elementary School, Anonymous responded by re-posting the personal and professional information for members of the church on the Internet. Now the general public can contact the church members directly and tell them what they think about people who would desecrate the funerals of murdered children.”

    http://www.inquisitr.com/440545/anonymous-hacks-the-westboro-baptist-church-posts-all-their-personal-information/

  217. There is more to this than just gun control IMO.

    There is our obsession with guns and the interpretation of the 2nd Amendment.
    The NRA and the gun manufactures = money.
    The endless reporting over and over on TV.
    Fear of the government, white, black and yellow people, terrorists or their religion, culture blah, blah, blah or Republicans or Democrats.
    The prescription drugs used for treatment of mental illness.
    Fearful people believing a gun will protect them. More guns = more protection.
    Stand Your Ground Laws
    Lack of respect for others or ourselves
    Lack of discipline being taught to children
    Bullying
    Violence in games, TV and movies.
    Sense of having no control over our “world” or lives
    More????

    Who is pushing the “Fear Button” and why? Why do we allow it?

  218. Raji –
    Whether that is the case here I don’t know. But these situations can cause stress in a marriage which cause it to end in divorce. The mother ends up alone to care for a child she may not be able to control or is afraid of them and for them. When a child is physically ill there are people willing to relieve the mother for awhile but a mentally ill child or one who has violent out bursts not so much. The drugs used to treat can cause problems too. We are too quick to use drugs to solve problems. It seems there is little help and too few places for a mother or parents to turn to for help with these children.

  219. DR@252 – I presume you are talking about “The Judge.”

    I wonder how they get around the law about sawed-off shotguns when they manufacture that one.

  220. 160 people have died in these gunman terrorist attacks in our nation since they have been keeping track. Yes, it is tragic. But let’s get a little perspective. 181 people have died from getting tasered. Those have only been in use since 1976, and are not considered firearms or carry any restrictions in most states. Of course it’s the kids involved that gets us more emotionally upset. How about this, then? 168 CHILDREN have been massacred by OUR drone strikes in Pakistan alone, in the past few years. Where’s the uproar? We, as tax-paying Americans, paid big bucks to kill those children. Where’s the outrage?

    Connecticut has some of the strictest gun laws already. Making it more restrictive for citizens to own weapons doesn’t seem the way to go. Obviously, it hasn’t helped them avoid gun related incidents. Maybe we should allow teachers to carry, if they own weapons and so choose. Michigan, I believe, has proposed such a plan.

    This latest incident is full of controversy. I always look to who benefits and how the event is being reported. Wording and imagery are often obvious giveaways. Since the HSEEP exercise at that very elementary school 27 months ago, some local folks have been keeping an eye on things. Along with several witnesses and reports of multiple shooters, just like the recent Sikh and Aurora incidents, there is also much symbolism portrayed. There were three shooters here, according to the recorded police scanners.

    You don’t hear much new regarding the investigations of past terror events, like the 4 gas masks found in Colorado, for example.

  221. Pfessor…..ain’t no way I’m buying that Brazilian garbage! I’m talking the Smith and Wesson version of the Judge….the Governor.

  222. “There were three shooters here, according to the recorded police scanners.”

    Poolman, I don’t usually bite but where do you get your information? If there were three shooters why would anyone cover that up. Where did the other two disappear to? What symbolism do you think is being portrayed? The media threw out so much tabloid information no one knew the facts. What is the conspiracy behind this mass murder? Was Adam Lanzas a pawn for the “mass murder of school children” mafia?

  223. 255 Ragi. Our daughter is a therapist who treats young people already in the justice system. She says some of them are so warped, nothing conventional can be done for them. Some will explode under the right conditions, otherwise, they won’t,

    She has counseled people since 2005. She began idealistic as if she would change the world. She is jaded now after several violent narrow escapes.

  224. No disrespect intended, but the thought occured., Maybe the third shooter was hiding on the grassey knowl with Kennedy’s second assasin.

  225. “Our daughter is a therapist who treats young people already in the justice system. She says some of them are so warped, nothing conventional can be done for them. Some will explode under the right conditions, otherwise, they won’t,”

    My buddy Joe calls them “defective carbon units.” (HT to Star Trek). Their brains are infected with a virus that, like rabies or radical Islam, cannot be cured. You just have to destroy the animal, because you can’t fix them and they are dangerous.

    On the other hand, there are some civilized people in the world: happy final day of Hanukkah. May these intellectual leaders of the world multiply and prosper.

  226. Raji…..Ignore him like a dumb fuck street person babbling in the subway station. The sick fuck gets off using these tragedies as a medium to entertain his little Murder She Wrote mysteries. In other words, it’s a hobby akin to writing short fiction. Just really inappropriate short fiction.

    Of course, I could give the scum bag the benifit of the doubt and say he creates these fantasies because the conspiracy creates a certain amount of structure that he finds solace in. The old theory that a mean nasty father is better then no father at all. So, his wide conspiracy shields him from the horrifying randomness of it all.

    Unfortunately, I think it’s my first analysis.

  227. re 266

    Raji, there is an entire network of underground sources for information that has grown considerably in the past few years mainly due to a free and open internet. Most are ‘truthers’, and as such, aren’t taken seriously by the mainstream. Let’s just say there are eyes and ears in all parts of the globe keeping watch, recording and sharing information.

    Many of the original MSM reports cited multiple shooters, but have since been scrubbed.

    I could only guess why this is done and reported as such. I can assure you it is part of an ongoing campaign to take away our individual rights, mainly our right to bear arms and form militias.

  228. From Politico: “President Barack Obama said he came with “the love and prayers of a nation” as he spoke Sunday night in Newtown, Conn., at the vigil for those killed at the Sandy Hook Elementary School.

    Obama said the nation faces “hard questions” in the aftermath.

    “Can we honestly say that we’re doing enough to keep our children, all of them, safe from harm?” Obama said. “If we’re honest with ourselves, the answer’s no. We’re not doing enough, and we will have to change.”

    Obama said that though there is no single law or set of laws that could prevent such tragedies, “that can’t be an excuse for inaction,” dismissing people who say the “politics are too hard. Are we prepared that such violence visited on our children year after year after year is somehow the price of our freedom?””

  229. Did anyone notice in the article that was linked here twice that the lady had to hide her knives from her mentally unstable son?

    “Are we prepared that such violence visited on our children year after year after year is somehow the price of our freedom”

    Are we prepared to start rounding up all the mentally unstable ticking time bombs walking freely in our society?

    If we start going after guns like drugs shall we call if “War on Guns”?

  230. Tomorrow is not going to be fun at work. I actually thought about calling in sick and then almost punched myself for being a pussy.

    Last year school was canceled because of the threat of a shooter. Seems like every year there is more fear, a silent unease all the time. Thing is, it’s probably not rational….but even I can’t tell. There seems to be this eroding trust that I can’t put my finger on.

    With the boys, there is this fascination with guns that isn’t cool. I’m not talking about the kid who goes hunting with his Dad. I’m talking the gamer without a Dad. Killing in a virtual reality all night long.

    Nobody even calls on the phone. Text. Internet arguing. Nothing face to face.

    Lastly, in no way am I blaming this shooting on politics. But I will say the consequences of constantly kicking the can and screwing the young is starting to show. There is a lack of faith in the future that only the liars can stand in front of them and dismiss.

    We need to be able to defend our kids better. I essentially work in a densely populated city of 1700 teenagers. Think about that for a minute. A densely populated city and not one armed person there to defend our kids. Not one. They cut the police officer two years ago and we already had one disaster.

    So tomorrow, in a place where learning is supposed to happen, the only thing on people’s minds will be how to make it through the day as a soft target. Because, that’s all our schools are. Soft targets. I fear ignorant people, with all the best intentions in the world, are going to do nothing but make these targets softer.

    The bad guys already have the guns. There is no turning back the clock.

  231. Huck…I read that article. Unfortunately, it’s my experience that the brave mom who did the right thing is the farthest from the norm.

    The parents usually refuse to see the insanity for what it is.

    I had a kid last year, weird as hell, gun worshiper, come in the morning and tell me how I saved his life from suicide the year before. By my second hour, a suicide note was found from the same kid in my room. We were on the down fall of Hitler and suicide was going to be a theme, so I walked him down (I had already emailed the counselor about it) by the time the kid was in my class 5th hour.

    The next day the parents were fuming over the fact I removed their kid from the educational setting despite knowing he is emotionally impaired. I should have known he wouldn’t go through with any threats. They claimed the psychologist had contacted the school at the beginning of the year assuring that no matter what the kid says, he’s harmless.

    Can you believe that?

    I’m scared shitless the kid is gong to off himself, a kid counselors told me was “obsessed” with me ( yeah that weird) and I was the bad guy. Even spineless administration had my back on that one.

    The parents ended up removing him from the school, cursing public schools, and put him in a local charter school.

    I have gotten a couple strange emails from the kid this year.

  232. “Unfortunately, it’s my experience that the brave mom who did the right thing is the farthest from the norm.”

    I am confident you are correct, and I can’t even imagine having to deal with the rest of the story you just told.

    But that isn’t what I was trying to point out. The mother had to hide her KNIVES. Not her guns.

    People make deadly weapons out of seemingly harmless household items. The OKC bomber killed more with fertilizer and sugar than all the mass gun murders combined.

    Serial killers strangle people with their bare hands.

    When we rid the country of every single gun, how much safer will we be if we still have mentally unstable people around us every day?

    It’s easy to point the finger at guns. If we want to REALLY have the tough discussion everyone says we need to have, start with riding our society of the nutjobs. They are who is making our society unsafe…not their tools.

    (I don’t own guns and don’t have strong feelings about stricter gun legislation. But I do understand the reasoning behind the 2nd amendment. And at the end of the day, I don’t think taking guns away is going to make us safer)

  233. “And at the end of the day, I don’t think taking guns away is going to make us safer”

    No “think” about it. It is an empirical truth.

  234. Huck, what if there was a cultural shift when it comes to guns, in which its not something passed down from your father or the military but a passion spawned from video games?

    Im thinking out loud here and really not making a point….but what if we as a society, for a multitude of reasons, are not reasonable enough anymore….the starting point of this American experiment in the first place?

    Anything I say at this hour should be taken with a grain of salt as I’m suffering with an epic bout of down in the dumps.

  235. “Huck, what if there was a cultural shift when it comes to guns, in which its not something passed down from your father or the military but a passion spawned from video games?”

    While I see the point, and it may even be an accurate one…I don’t know…

    We’re already looking at losing the 2nd amendment. Do we want to throw the 1st in there, too? How much freedom are we willing to sacrifice for safety?

    I am not suggesting we do nothing. But once we start doing anything (which we already have), it’s a question that will eventually NEED to be answered by some generation.

  236. Yes, Rutherford. 3 shooters. You want links to the police scanners or links to kids and teachers that made those statements? Both exist. The gunman was dead in the classroom after supposedly killing himself and two suspects were witnessed running from the scene, one caught, cuffed by police, and seen by several witnesses. Even several news stations reported several shooters.

    Another thing that strikes me as eerie. Why would the school have the intercom on during the entire event except to amplify the terror? Every gunshot and scream was broadcast into every classroom. That is one small thing among many other strange things here.

    I can see it as orchestrated and more of the ongoing war against our liberties, where we give glorious lip service to justice at the same time we attempt to rid this world of it.

  237. “Even several news stations reported several shooters.”

    There was SO much misinformation being reported that there is talk about prosecuting the Media. !. Mother was shot in the class room (fact: at home) 2. kids in Mother’s kindergarten class were picked to murder (fact: Mother wasn’t a teacher, not her class) 3. Brother was caught and cuffed running from the school (fact: brother didn’t live there)
    NEED I SAY MORE!!!!!
    So what you are trying to say, Poolman, that this incident was orchestrated by the “ongoing war against our liberties” MAFIA and they used Lanzas as their pawn? I guess he did need to shoot his mother first so she wouldn’t have to live with the horror of his deeds?????

  238. “How much freedom are we willing to sacrifice for safety?”

    Too much! Already our children are too protected. Instead of playing outdoors and running the risk of getting hurt or kidnapped or whatever evil is out there, they stay inside and play games depicting violence As Rabbit said, there is very little face to face encounters except under supervision. How do they learn to be socially adept?

    Pets are taught how to socialize better than what we teach our children.

  239. The number of mass shootings in the US declined from 42 in the 1990’s to 26 in the first decade of this century.

    The US has about 200 million guns.

    A study by Mother Jones revealed that at lest 38 of 61 mass shooter displayed signs of mental illness before the shootings.

    Pat Monihan predicted the collapse of black society because of the welfare programs which were created to help them. The same decline has happened to other races too.

    Hollywood and the game industry creates a culture of imaginary gratuitous violence. For some mentally unstable people imagination can become reality.

    It has become politically correct to leave crazy or evil people alone unless they do something threatening.

    Senator Joe Lieberman said we need to address the culture and mental health problems which may lead to mass murder.

    Most, but not all mass killers are male. Why? Do women internalize their pain and frustration on themselves instead of the population? If so, is it cultural or physical.?

    Some have suggested arming the teachers. My wife said she knows some teachers who should not be armed.

    We also need to consider instances when fire arms saved lives. There was a mall shooting in Washington state. Two people died, I think. The national news media failed to report that though the mall was a gun-free zone, a man carried a licensed pistol into the mall.

    As the shooter went into action, the man drew his pistol and aimed it at the man. He did not fire because he was afraid he might hit customers standing behind the shooter. The shooter hesitated as he saw the pistol and than shot himself.

    No matter what we decide, we will always be at risk. Its life. Bad things happen, and if one is at the wrong place at the wrong time, “this is the end.’ as the Doors sang.

  240. What if we made gun owners carry insurance on each gun they own. To cover any damage done by you or another with that weapon or if it should be lost or stolen. There would be different coverage for hunting, antique guns. Different rates for coverage for those that can shoot more than 6/8 rounds, carrying concealed etc.
    ( I really don’t understand why you need one that has 50 rounds. If you can not kill or disable someone with one or two bullets perhaps you should use a baseball bat for protection.) If the policy is not renewed each year the gun(s) are confiscated until you renew the insurance. I realize this would not end the problem but it would be a start. You get caught with a gun not insured it would be confiscated. The insurance companies would love it!

  241. Addendum to 285. When the police arrived it makes you wonder who they cuffed. Maybe it was a teacher running away from the school to save his a**s. Do you think?

  242. According to recent statistics, one out of every 100 people have a form of Autistic Syndrome Disorder (ASD). If this fact is true it is only because we have developed more advanced methods of diagnosing mental disorders not that mental disorders are on the upswing.

    Take the prevalent situation of children today spending more time alone in front of electronics and we have a entire population of un-socialized individuals regardless of their mental disabilities. Add mental disability to the environment and you have a walking time bomb.

    Many of our mental health programs designed for children include occupational therapy. However OT usually involves one on one with the teacher not a class room. The child is supposedly being taught socialization with his peers but if he is not interacting with his peers, how is this method effective?

    Children need to learn the consequences of their actions. No one likes the “bully” concept but a few bloody noses are more realistic to a child than any OT session. A fact of life is boys hurt with their fists and girls hurt with their words (some girls are also pretty good sluggers). Children are mean little boogers!!!! Children used to spend their afternoons off playing with their peers without adult supervision. A lot happened in that period of time but the children usually worked out their own issues. We as parents, teachers, supervisors, coaches do not allow this type of interaction to happen any more.

    We do not socialize our children.

  243. Lurker’s insurance idea is worth thinking about. Liability insurance works for cars.

    I agree with Ragi. We don’t socialize our children as we once did.

    The old joke is that boy bullies beat up their victims. Girls give their victims eating disorders.

    Our minister said that one boy told his friends “We have to get out NOW!” as the shooting began. The police found them still running a half mile from the school.

  244. In 1982, the Kennesaw City Council unanimously passed a law requiring heads of households to own at least one firearm with ammunition.

    Kennesaw Historical Society president Robert Jones said following the law’s passage, the crime rate dropped 89 percent in the city, compared to the modest 10 percent drop statewide.

    “It did drop after it was passed,” he said. “After it initially dropped, it has stayed at the same low level for the past 16 years.”

    “You can’t argue with the fact that Kennesaw has the lowest crime rate of any city our size in the country.”

    From 1982 – 2012 there have only been 4 murders. 3 of those murders happened in “safe” school zones where guns were not allowed.

  245. raji@290 –
    I had a cousin (dead now, lived to 95) who was a legendary second-grade teacher in the mountains of WV. When a kid came to her and said, “Billy socked me!” she’d say, “Sock him back!” – and watch to be sure it ended there.

    She told me once, “Jim, I couldn’t teach today. I TOUCHED my kids: when they were good, I hugged ‘em; when they were bad I paddled them. There was never any question where they stood with me. Nowadays you’d go to jail for that.”

    We have the means easily available to us; we do NOT have the will.

  246. I am not over this tragedy and I find many of the comments here insensitive and offensive, so long for now.

  247. “It’s so hard for people to admit character flaws in their own children. It might be the hardest thing to do in life. I wonder if I will have the strength if my son, God forbid, turned out wrong, even evil.” – DR

    Rabbit, you are an enigma, but if I understand you at all, I don’t think there is any way your child could turn out evil.

    My heart is too heavy for this today, perhaps many days to come. My thoughts, most of you already know.

  248. Rutherford, I see you are still the object of Tex’s affections.
    I agree with BiW that gun control is not the problem, it’s people. However he lost me when he said the people advocating gun control laws are the same people who advocate a woman’s right to decide what to do with her body. That type of statement smacks of people like Akin and the reason that the Republicans lost the election.

    The parading of the emotions of the families of the victims sicken me.

  249. Let’s have the NRA organize their “well regulated militias” around the country. Buy property and build armories where all assault weapons will be kept locked up. Once a week gun owners can come, target practice, drill and play war for the weekend. There can be a big parade for the families every month.

    Those who feel they need these weapons to protect themselves from the government here is something to think about:

    http://www.ericgarland.co/2012/12/14/your-well-regulated-militia-will-not-kick-anybodys-ass/

  250. Garland seems to be unfamiliar with the Taliban insurgency, who have managed to do pretty well against US tanks, helicopters, satellites, etc. while being limited to the types of weapons he says rebels would be limited to.

    He fails to recognize that local militias would be more familiar with the local terrain than would the national army.

    He appears ignorant to the many ways our high tech infrastructures are vulnerable to low tech attacks.

    Organization and mobilization would indeed be challenging, as he mentioned. But it would not be impossible, as we see movements from freedom-less societies doing it against repressive regimes at this very moment.

    And the idea that a US president would use nuclear weapons on US soil against Americans is preposterous.

    There isn’t a country on earth that can’t be brought down from within. (It’s probably a good idea to note that it isn’t something I wish for in our case)

  251. JAL – Here’s something for YOU to think about: there are about 15 million hunters in this country. God knows how many gun owners there are, but assume at least 50 million.

    A big army is 2 million men.

    Now, think about invading a country where there are not only >50 mill gun owners, but there are 15 million who are pretty well experts in their use, know the terrain and are defending their homeland. Think about how many people there are like me, with high-powered rifles, who love precision shooting and making long distance shots (I am a varmint hunter.) Make you want to duck your head, just a little? Now think about coming after me in the mountains where I grew up. Sure, you could get me with infrared-equipped helicopters, but you wouldn’t know who to go after until I had done some serious damage to your leadership. There a lot of “me’s” and not very many of “them.” I wouldn’t want to be on the other side, believe me. Talk about pucker factor…

    Also think about how many American soldiers would obey an order to shoot American citizens. I’d hate to be the man who gave the order, actually…

    No, I think things are just about where they ought to be. The loss of thirty innocent lives is a tragedy; the loss of freedom is much worse.

  252. I remember the news of the pedophile ring in Nebraska mentioned on the link Poolman gave us.Am anti- child slavery organization ( love 148) works to save and rehabilitate such children. I think they have spread across the world. A member of the organization spoke in Lincoln, Ne last year.

    Pfessor and Huck just described an elephant in the room– the possibility of future insurrection.

  253. I don’t mean to suggest that people would rebel if the government tried to take their guns (though I sure wouldn’t rule it out), but I reject the notion that the 2nd amendment has been rendered obsolete by American military might.

  254. As each day goes by, my anger about Friday seems to get worse not better. Take Joe Manchin of West Virginia who said this is the first time in his memory that we’ve lost “our babies” to this kind of violence. Where has Joe been?

    That would be 180 children, 11 years of age or younger, who were killed by a firearm in 2010, according to the most recent report on violent deaths from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, says Jonathan Lowy, director of the Legal Action Project for the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence.

    from http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/17/gun-control-children-newtown-school-schooting/1775469/

    Rabbit has said it before, usually in an attempt to slam me, that little black children die on a regular basis on inner city streets and no one gives a flying f*ck. Let a bunch of middle class kids in a “quaint” suburb of NYC get killed and suddenly there is a problem.

    We are a country of hypocrites and BS artists. Maybe with some luck, this latest slaughter will finally break enough hearts, and move enough conscience in people, that we will take steps to prevent massacres in both the quaint Newtown and the not so quaint Chicago.

  255. I am saying this in the heat of emotion and I may damn well take it back sometime down the line but I’ve got a surprising newsflash for some of you. I am FOR stop and frisk. I was against it prior to last Friday. I felt it was a violation of black’s rights because of the profiling involved.

    You know what? Screw that!!!! If you live in a neighborhood where people don’t know how to NOT behave like savages, then you have to be treated like a savage until things change. Bloomberg, love him or not, has greatly reduced the incidence of violent crime in NYC. I don’t think this is unrelated to stop and frisk.

    I’ve broken down at least once a day since Friday, once in front of my kid because of something that came on TV. My wife had to explain to my kid late Friday (before she heard it elsewhere) what happened in CT. Told her not to be afraid because it is a very rare thing.

    I don’t know if Obama has any teeth, but he’s damn right to ask what kind of country do we live in that we can’t protect our kids? We can’t even send them to school.

    When Obama spoke in CT last night and he listed the names of the dead, the list went on and on. It was only twenty names but it felt like it went on forever. I told my wife tonight, if that were my kid, my heart would simply stop beating in my chest and I would die right there on the spot. I couldn’t go on.

    Damn, this has me upset. I’m tearing up just writing this.

  256. guns,violence and civil order.

    Alfie, just out of curiosity, where does mental illness fall in that triad?

    I fully agree. Gun control (or gun safety which is a better, less “loaded” moniker) cannot fully solve the problem. Doesn’t mean we should ignore it, but we also have cultural and medical issues to deal with.

    It is still a stigma to seek psychiatric help in this country. That’s got to stop. Also, I know this is a slippery slope, but I’m wondering if we shouldn’t make it easier to commit people involuntarily to mental institutions if they show certain signs. Don’t jump down my throat … I’m grasping at straws here.

  257. The moon clips hold six bullets at a time. It takes seconds to reload a moon clip.

    My last comment before going to bed. Rabbit, honest to God man I just don’t understand this. I know I’m ignorant about guns but I can do basic math, How can you assert that a six bullet clip can kill as many as fast as a 30 bullet magazine? I’m trying to be patient here … explain it to me man cos I just don’t get it. You really think you could kill 20 kids in five minutes with your revolver, shooting each kid multiple times like that sick bastard did?

  258. “You really think you could kill 20 kids in five minutes with your revolver, shooting each kid multiple times like that sick bastard did?”

    So let’s say it would have taken 10 minutes. Who in that school would have stopped him? He shot everyone who tried, as it was.

    How would forcing him to reload have changed this?

  259. Somebody needs to bust rabbit’s bawls. lol.

    Huckabee is an ass. This isn’t the first time he’s shown it.

    Yeah, Huck. I’ll talk Fast & Furious. Another in a long list of government operations gone awry by government persons with no consequences for the perpetrators within government. Or is it the “guns don’t kill people, people kill people” avenue this time? It has gotten plenty of mileage, both the saying and this operation.

    Either way, it’s out of control and pride is taking down this whole enchilada.

    Of course, you guys all believe what they tell you, IF it’s official.

    Found this interesting:

    Newtown Massacre…the MAJOR DISCREPANCIES LIST
    by Clare Kuehn
    1) As yet, we have not seen any concrete evidence that any child died.
    2) As yet, parents have not been allowed to see their children. (Photoshopped pictures do not count.)
    3) As of now, I have seen only one unambiguous statement from a grieving parent (Robbie Parker).
    4) According to the official story, Adam Lanza was found with his older brother’s ID, and it was not stolen. However, older brother Ryan–who officials say is very cooperative–claims not to have even seen his brother since 2010. Where would Adam get this ID? And why does such use not qualify as a theft?
    5) According to the official story, Adam Lanza was wearing a black outfit with a mask and bulletproof vest. Why would he want to hide his identity, and why would he wear a bulletproof vest, if he planned to kill himself?
    6) The medical examiner asserts that all wounds were caused by a rifle or other long weapon, and police/FBI say that the school was littered with .223 (rifle) casings. But Adam Lanza was found dead in the school with only handguns–a rifle was found in the trunk of his car. But then he could not possibly have been firing the rifle, and could not have committed the murders. Who did?
    7) According to the official story, the killing was tightly confined to two classrooms. But then why were so many children told to close their eyes while leaving the building?
    8 ) Joanne Didonato, the principal’s secretary, called in sick on Friday–something she rarely does. So presumably, she must have been awfully ill. Yet she then felt well enough to give an interview. “Of all days,” she said, emphasizing the strange coincidence.
    9) The hospital went into lockdown and cleared four trauma rooms, but received only three patients, two of them dead children(according to the official story) and one mildly wounded adult.
    10) Why were there such persistent reports that Mrs. Lanza was a kindergarten teacher, and that she died at the school, when the new official story is that she was not connected to the school and was killed at home?
    11) What happened to the report that Adam Lanza’s girlfriend and another friend were missing in New Jersey?
    12) What happened to the woodsman in a black jacket and camo pants who was arrested and handcuffed outside the school? He actually shouted to parents, “It wasn’t me.” Who was he and what was he doing there?
    13) What happened to the dark van or SUV that the police surrounded in the parking lot, or the maroon sedan with a blown-out back window they were on the lookout for?
    14) The official story is that Nancy Lanza was a gun collector who obeyed the law. But since 20-year-olds are not permitted to buy guns or ammo or carry guns in Connecticut, why would she give her “autistic” son access to both guns and ammo?
    15) Why were parents told on Friday that “if you haven’t been reunited with your child by now it’s already over”? Does anyone imagine that real parents of real children would simply say, “Okay, the show’s over, let’s go home now”?
    16) Would real parents of real children really be satisfied with (possibly photoshopped) pictures of their children? Wouldn’t they demand to see their children one last time firsthand?17) According to the official story, 28 people died but only 1 was wounded. The dead included 20 small, squirmy children–difficult targets even for professionals. How could Adam Lanza achieve such amazingly deadly accuracy, in such a short length of time?
    18 ) A child asserts that he/she heard someone say, “Put your hands up,” followed by the reply, “Don’t shoot.” This indicates that the police took a suspect into custody inside the school. But if that was Adam Lanza, how did he kill himself after that point?
    19) Another child asserts that he/she saw a man pinned down to the ground with handcuffs on. Again, this indicates that the police took a suspect into custody. If that was Adam Lanza, how did he then kill himself?
    20) When Ryan Lanza was falsely identified as the shooter, who deleted his Facebook profile and created many others in his name?
    21) Is it reasonable for a geeky 20-year-old to carry two pistols and hundreds of rounds of ammunition while wearing a bulletproof vest and a mask?
    22) Why did the police say on Friday that they were going to leave the bodies rotting in the school until Sunday, then Saturday morning announce that they had spirited the bodies away in the middle of the night? Perhaps to ensure that the transport, if any, would go unrecorded on photos or video?
    23) Why won’t police tell us where they found the Henry repeating rifle, the Enfield rifle, and the shotgun?
    24) Did the school have one or more security cameras? What do they show?
    25) Why did a police officer specifically mention, on radio, that “they’re coming at me through this wood,” followed by a fellow officer saying, “This is it”?
    26) One officer in the school said, “We’ve got one suspect down.” Who was that? Down in this situation generally means in custody (on the ground and cuffed), not dead.
    27) Why didn’t Adam’s uncle see anything out of the ordinary in Adam when the two saw each other in June?
    28 ) Why is Adam Lanza reported to be a loner when a teenager said oxymoronically), “[Lanza and his friends] always gathered alone in a corner in school”?
    29) Why did police assign an individual state trooper to every grieving family, whether the family wants such “protection” or not?
    30) Why are Ryan Lanza and his roommates still in custody, and why are the police
    pretending that it’s for their own benefit?
    31) Is it a coincidence that Nancy Lanza’s brother is Kingston Police Officer James Champion, who lives next door to the former Lanza home?
    32) Since the alleged shooter’s father is VP of GE Capital, and (like “Batman shooter” James Holmes’s father) was scheduled to testify at the Senate Hearings on the LIBOR scandal, is there a LIBOR connection to this event?

    Just a few questions from one observer.

  260. Get a grip, y’all. What happened in CT is very sad, but also very, very rare when taken in context of the overall population of this country.

    Road crashes kill an estimated 260,000 children worldwide every year. Just a quick google pulls up data for 2003 in the US: In the United States, an average of 6 children 0-14 years old were killed and 694 were injured every day in motor vehicle crashes.

    Six American kids killed in cars each and every day of the year. I don’t see a single call for more car regulation.

  261. There is something deeply wrong about posting, in the guise of “questions” or the suggestion that these children aren’t really dead, their parents aren’t really destroyed. Poolman–have you no shame?

  262. Rutherfofd as for 313, one of my college minors was psychology. A professor told us a new policy was to release insane people from mental institutions and mainstream them within the general population. Half way houses and mental health workers would keep track of the people and help them with any developing problems.

    It didn’t work so well because governments couldn’t afford the extra expense and many people were left on their own. “Somebody’s Baby” by Pat Benatar and the video were a brief essay on the results.

    I agree with you.

    I agree with Pfessor too.

    The Von Maurer shooting in Omaha happened so fast everyone was dead before the police arrived.

  263. Obama’s proposal for $60.4 billion in federal disaster relief comes with some questionable spending decisions.

    $150 million for Alaska fisheries.
    $41 million for US military bases including Guantanamo Bay.
    $5.2 million for the Justice Department.
    $4 million for the Kennedy Space Center.
    $3.5 million for Homeland Security.
    $2 million for the Smithsonian in DC
    $207 million for VA Manhattan Medical Center
    $3.3 million for Plum Island Animal Disease Center
    $1.1 million for repairing national cemeteries

  264. R, I’m in no mood to discuss the logistics other then to say it takes me about 1.5 seconds to put a new moon clip in.

  265. Poolman–have you no shame?

    In a society that glorifies war and killing machines, serial killers, vampires, zombies, and thousands of virtual killing games, you ask me if I have no shame? Get a grip. I can post pictures of mutilated babies from Palestine or Pakistan that are a result of your tax dollars.

    This stuff is just like mainstream porn and the majority of Americans are addicted to it and continue to eat it up. I don’t participate. It angers me. That is the emotion I feel right now.

  266. Bring the proof Foolman. If you don’t have any you are just an ignorant fuck with no moral center. Don’t say it is so, show it is so. Your educated guesses, aside from being the signs of a man with psychotic fantasies, are meaningless. Hard evidence, bring it. Quit with the pathetic distractions about your imaginings in other far off places.

  267. I am starting to feel a little weird that this isn’t getting to me as much as it is getting to many others.

    I wonder if it is because I don’t watch television anymore.

    I wish I could help relieve the pain felt here somehow

  268. WordPress is playing games?

    Huck and Pfesser – I do understand your point. But is there is no other way to control the government without resorting to armed rebellion? You two did not get enough time playing War or was it Cowboys and Indians when you were young, eh?

    My point is do we/America wish to be a relatively peaceful, stable, civilized society or a violent, unstable, uncivilized society. This is the question we need to ask ourselves.
    More guns or more powerful guns are not the logical solution. Nor is Stand Your Ground Laws, IMO. I do like the idea of liability insurance for those who carry concealed and especially in Stand Your Ground states. There are too many paranoid fearful people with a Rambo mentality running around this country.

    A gunman bent on killing many and then himself in a public environment is something to be aware of but it is not something I fear. He knows why he is there. It is the man who thinks he should carry everywhere or at home for protection because you never know what “evil may be lurking around the corner” who scares me more. The person who believes he is capable within seconds to access a chaotic situation and would react appropriately. Will he really know why or what he is shooting or will he shoot anything that moves? A few may react in a positive manner but most will not IMO.

    I would like to know the stats for how many people die by accident, by mistake, in a moment of domestic rage/drunkenness compared to the number of people who actually used a gun for protection that saved their life. And there was no other solution but to shoot.

  269. ” But is there is no other way to control the government without resorting to armed rebellion?”

    I was going to address this comment with genuine commentary. Then I saw this….

    “You two did not get enough time playing War or was it Cowboys and Indians when you were young, eh? ”

    …and decided I wouldn’t bother.

  270. While everyone has been distracted with mourning, Obama has rejected 2 proposals from the so-called Party of No.

  271. Huck – I am sorry you were offended by my sense of humor. While I do understand your point of an armed rebellion I don’t think the majority of citizens would join in your insurrection. I do believe there would be pockets of resistance. The only way you could win would be if the army refused. But then I am sure Blackwater would be willing to do it for the right money. So I find it funny but sad.

  272. ” While I do understand your point of an armed rebellion I don’t think the majority of citizens would join in your insurrection.”

    It’s not mine and I certainly don’t wish for it to ever happen.

    All I am arguing is that the strength of the US military does not render the 2nd amendment obsolete, which was the thesis of the link you offered to begin this avenue of discussion.

    High tech weapons are not invulnerable to low tech countermeasures. We have seen this play out for the last 50 years. Nor are our high- and medium-tech infrastructures, such as the power and communications grid, finance networks, and transportation networks. That is part of why we fight our wars elsewhere.

    You are correct that the military would play a big part. But there are many factors to consider on that

    First, we have to think about the level of conditions that would spark a viable rebellion, in the first place. It would require a substantial potential loss of freedoms. Many in the military might turn or refuse to participate on that alone. That doesn’t even begin to deal with troops being ordered to kill fellow Americans.

    Next, as per the constitution, the state militias (AKA National Guard) would have to be used. It is possible that a viable rebellion would have the backing of some states, which would render issues there. Would there be a National Guard in every state? Would some units turn? How much would the location of those states within the country factor in?

    With the Guard potentially out of play, we’d be looking at the declaration of martial law, which would take away more freedoms. Now we are looking at an escalating series of action and reaction, as individuals do a cost/benefit analysis of sacrificing freedoms for safety. Sides start being taken on a widespread scale.

    Also consider that a modern rebellion/civil war would not necessarily have the geographic division like the last one. Instead of being based on North and South, it might be based on non-geographic ideologies. There could be division at the local, state, AND national level as every person in the country does the above assessment. Those pockets of resistance could quickly grow in size and strength.

    And if it did have geographic division, it could be even worse. Not that I am saying it would be based on political party affiliation, but using that as an example, take a look at the geography of that division. There is a whole lot of red with islands of blue at the edges. Our military can’t even occupy Afghanistan successfully. Now think about it trying to occupy up to 95% of the US.

  273. Huck, you have covered almost everything. Revoluion would make a good video game.

    One other factor would be foreign intervention and pubic relations. Our American Revolution succeeded because France, Germany, Poland, and other countries helped us.While a big deal to us, our revolt was only one phase of a larger war.

  274. This is what I meant to link in 335. Sometimes I don’t do multitasking well. Noah, this is probably a good chunk of ‘proof’ for you to chew on for awhile.

  275. There is no restrictions on fire arms that could have stopped this

    Not true. In this case had their been a law prohibiting the purchase of semi-automatic weapons or military grade weapons, they would not have been in the home of the “collector” whose son used them to kill her and the kids.

  276. As for the backlash – no doubt they will cast a wider net than autism. They will be enterprising in their unstoppable efforts to offload the burden onto many people that they don’t understand. It’s already begun.

    Muffy, who is “they”?

    We need to make a better effort at treating the mentally ill and protecting them from themselves and society from them.

  277. Regarding 255, my wife thinks “I Am Adam Lanza’s Mother” is a fabrication because it is so over the top. I don’t necessarily agree. I can see how a kid could become that much of a threat to his mother.

    Where I think the author goes wrong is that she is in no way like Lanza’s mother. Lanza’s mother inadvertently contributed to his terrible destiny and her own demise.

    So far, only her ex-sister-in-law says she was a “prepper”, i.e. a survivalist who hoards food, guns and ammo in preparation for the breakdown of society. While I tend to believe it, I haven’t found any corroborating info. Nancy Lanza didn’t clearly have any really close friends but those who speak about her in the latest press reports say she was a loving caring mother, perhaps in over her head. Divorce from Dad was supposedly as amicable as such a thing can be.

    Still, I get very skeptical when blame turns to video games which is where I see this one headed. Blaming it on Hollywood and the entertainment complex is a great way to avoid doing any heavy lifting to work toward a solution.

  278. For those who think we need more guns, not fewer, you may want to partake of the last Leaning Left broadcast of the year where I get guest caller “Sarge” who gives me the skinny on why we need more guns, not less. You’ll find it cathartic, I’m sure.

  279. Connecticut has some of the strictest gun laws already.

    This is true but we have to define “strict”. Apparently it is legal in CT to purchase a rifle with a grenade launcher attached to it. What kind of foolishness is that?

  280. There were three shooters here, according to the recorded police scanners.

    I’m sure someone has said this by now … I’m behind on the thread … but here goes:

    Poolman, initial reports are always about 50% wrong. Like in this case … the name of the friggin gunman which turned out to be his brother. All sorts of misinformation can be heard over police scanners in the initial moments of a response to a crime scene. It is the worst evidence for you to use to support some coverup/conspiracy theory.

  281. My kid was out of school since last Wednesday with a bad cold. She returned to school today. If you think I put her on that bus without a lump in my throat, you’re wrong. :-(

  282. So, his wide conspiracy shields him from the horrifying randomness of it all

    I think that is at the heart of most conspiracy theories … with an added dash of “fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me”

  283. I can’t believe you are a grown up.

    I guess I’m a hypocrite but even though I took offense at Rabbit calling me a child, I DID get a major laugh out this slap at Poolman. :lol:

  284. The bad guys already have the guns. There is no turning back the clock.

    You could almost hear Sandi gasp on the show today when I said something to the effect of:

    “If we can’t make legislative progress on this, then I DO want someone armed in every school. I want a lunatic like Lanza taken down before he kills my kid. I prefer a legislative solution that makes these attacks much harder but if we can’t move on this, then I say we’re at a tipping point, and we need to tip the other way and protect our schools.”

    Sandi was partially right in her response. Do we really want the average klutzy principal packing heat? When BiW advocated “arming up” on Friday it royally pissed me off. Now I’m not so sure. How do you get a situation that is hopelessly out of control, under control?

  285. but what if we as a society, for a multitude of reasons, are not reasonable enough anymore….the starting point of this American experiment in the first place?

    I think there is ample evidence of this and if I think too much about it, it scares me.

  286. Why would the school have the intercom on during the entire event except to amplify the terror?

    I can’t give you a definitive answer but the obvious one that occurs to me is that the intercom was turned on to warn of the emergency and was accidentally not turned off.

  287. I guess he did need to shoot his mother first so she wouldn’t have to live with the horror of his deeds?????

    Raji, Poolman actually lacks imagination. I’ve already conjured up a Manchurian Candidate scenario where the mother “programmed” Lanza to be a killer but before he could do the deed he killed his mentor.

    Now THAT’s a theory!!! :-)

  288. What if we made gun owners carry insurance on each gun they own.

    Lurker, Sandi brought this up on my Internet radio show today. I think it is an EXCELLENT idea and with a hat tip to Mitt Romney, what better way to get control of the situation then to get the private sector involved on the disincentive side. One of the questions on the insurance form would be “are any unstable people living in your home?” Based on that, Nancy Lanza would never have gotten insurance.

    Plus it is the perfect answer to the inane car/gun comparison I hear all the time. “Cars kill but we don’t outlaw them.” Yikes. OK … let’s insure gun owners the same way we insure car drivers. Good old liability insurance. MetLife pays big bucks to 20 families who lost their kids. Lanza would be the last mother with an Aspie kid that MetLife would ever sell gun insurance to.

  289. Regarding 290, it’s funny Raji … my kid is very social. Plays after school with neighborhood friends all the time and …

    ….
    It worries me to no end. I always wonder how she will handle any multitude of unexpected situations that might come her way. When we lived in Middlebury, I personally supervised all outdoor play (or my wife did). Our current neighborhood full of garden apartments doesn’t lend itself to that kind of supervision so she’s pretty much on her own with instructions to check in periodically. I trust her. I don’t trust the world. I don’t want to end up a statistic. But I can’t let my insecurity stunt her maturation. I think she’s the better for her independence. But damn, I’m not comfortable with it.

  290. I am not over this tragedy and I find many of the comments here insensitive and offensive, so long for now.

    I’m curious what offended you … that is after I told a couple of people to f*ck off. :-)

    Newt … I hear you. Today is the first day I’ve been able to really dive into the comments section here. I came damn close to breaking down on my Internet radio show today.

  291. The controversial Tom Heneghan alleges that “Nancy Champion Lanza, the mother of the alleged Connecticut shooter, Adam Lanza, was a CIA P2 analyist working for the Defense Research Projects Agency (DARPA) and also for the Department of Homeland Security (DHS).”

    Poolman .,.,.. you’ve GOT to be kidding? I’m guessing Tom Heneghan is controversial cos he’s a nutjob?

    Poolman with all due respect, I’m beginning to wonder if we shouldn’t be keeping YOU outside a 50 yard perimeter of any school. :shock:

  292. Rutherford, I see you are still the object of Tex’s affections.

    You might have noticed, Raji, that I told BiW I would not be subscribing to his comment thread nor would I return to read any response from him. I kept my word. I have no idea what they’re saying and for the most part, it’s a good thing. I don’t need them pissing me off any more than I already am.

  293. I hope Newt returns soon. I want to know how her trip was.

    Practically no snow has fallen on us so far. We are attending a legislative caucus early tomorow, and I will mention the gun issue, including suggesting liabillity insurance. I will give lurker credit in a round about way.

    Beating the blizzard home will be a close call if it comes sooner than expected. Rutherford Noah and rabbit, This may be your white Christmas.

  294. @354 there is also the possibility that it was intentional. There is a truing protocol that has PA put on during a crisis. It offers an ability for people in other locations to know what is going wrong,areas to avoid and allows for folks to subconsciously attain eyewitness information. Think of the scene in Taken where Liam Neeson tells bios daughter to describe things aloud while her cell phone was on.

  295. Huck, we will not know the truth about Fast and Furious until an independent prosecuter investigates and until we have another Woodward and Bernstein.

  296. Just imagine how we’d feel if we found out tomorrow that Adam Lanza had actually got his guns as a result of a Canadian operation to let guns walk into the US in order to prove how insufficient the Canadian guns laws were.

  297. Regarding 299, Lurker I’ve been saying this for a while. Our modern day Tea Party revolutionaries would find themselves in quite a pickle taking on the current American government, the strongest military presence in the world.

    Their only advantage might be how thin our military is spread, pushing democracy all over the world.

    There are those who say our military would sooner be insubordinate than to take orders from Obama against its own people. Mmmm, dunno.

  298. The loss of thirty innocent lives is a tragedy; the loss of freedom is much worse.

    Fortunately I’ve recovered enough of my sanity for this asinine comment not to send me over the brink.

    PF, just cos Tex is gone doesn’t mean you need to play drama queen now. No one wants to take away your freedom or your guns. We want to take away your f*cking glock and bushmaster (or whatever it’s called). Keep your old fashioned six shooter and rifle. Fine with me. Have a ball. But you don’t get to play Rambo anymore.

    Kapish?

  299. “Regarding 299, Lurker I’ve been saying this for a while. Our modern day Tea Party revolutionaries would find themselves in quite a pickle taking on the current American government, the strongest military presence in the world.”

    Third World insurgents don’t seem to have much trouble.

  300. Or better yet, PF, since you and I both have enjoyed the occasional erotic entertainment, let me give it to you in Lee Camp’s words. Just cos I’m telling you that you can’t screw a 13 year old doesn’t mean you can’t have sex.

    This ain’t an all or nothing proposition. And it’s no more a slippery slope than my telling you that you can’t screw a 13 year old.

  301. “No one wants to take away your freedom or your guns. We want to take away your f*cking glock and bushmaster (or whatever it’s called). Keep your old fashioned six shooter and rifle. ”

    So you DO want to take away people’s guns. C’mon Rutherford…own your position on this. We can’t have an honest discussion otherwise.

  302. Poolman with all due respect, I’m beginning to wonder if we shouldn’t be keeping YOU outside a 50 yard perimeter of any school.

    Right. Life is school and school is everywhere. You are speaking of buildings. And this is why? Because I question authority? Because I don’t accept official narratives? Because I don’t like to blindly follow? Because I can spot a pansy from virtually anywhere?

    Sorry to disrupt your virtual paradise with a taste of nasty real world skepticism. There are people with evil intent in power in this world. There are also real demons that can control people’s actions. I firmly believe that. The media is censored and cannot be trusted. The government is almost totally secretive and cannot be trusted.

    We were given plenty of forewarning of this society. Past presidents told us. Our founders warned us. I am just highlighting their unheeded wisdom.

    I don’t care if what I say is controversial. I aim to stir up truth. Sometimes it’s illusive and other times blatant. I am well aware that it isn’t always pretty, but if that’s where we need to go, let’s go. I hate wasting time. Time is all we really have between us.

  303. Never let a crisis go to waste. I noticed Bloomberg wasted no time. Again.

    Is this a win for big pharma and mental health facilities? Likely. Certainly a win for those desiring more intense screening, monitoring, and government intervention. Now you want to reward the insurance companies? I’m sure they’ll be happy to have government mandate we pay them a hefty profit. 20 percent guaranteed like the health care be sufficient, or should we up it since, well, these are killing devices and all? Sickening.

    Of course, the gun industry is probably stepping up production for this next latest boost in demand. What about preppers? They got some press. Good or bad, exposure means profit in capitalist lingo. Maybe charter school enrollment will tick up, too. The ever-growing security industry is likely smiling, after all, this stuff IS job security in a paranoid world. Of course, this helps justify social media monitoring by authorities. Life’s become a zoo.

  304. Just imagine how we’d feel if we found out tomorrow that Adam Lanza had actually got his guns as a result of a Canadian operation to let guns walk into the US in order to prove how insufficient the Canadian guns laws were.

    Oh, come on! You can’t expect Americans to put themselves in other people’s shoes. That is like so humiliating.. it’s.. it’s beneath us man…

  305. Oh….you are so deep, poolman. Such a gadfly.

    I just came into some money. How about I fly you out to Connecticut so you can ask your deep questions there. Question the existence of the kids themselves. Go to the diners and pubs. Snoop around.

    1500 bucks to see the side of your head kicked in to such a degree that your own chicken head kin can’t identify you would be money well spent.

    You are a coward. You hide online with your fantasies, paroting Alex Jones one minute, Nazis the next. What you don’t ever do is look a man in the eye and spew your lies.

  306. These aren’t lies rabbit, though I know you need them to be. I am ready to defend anyone interested in truth and will admit if I am proven wrong. Who’s on your side? The government?

    You want status quo so your happy world is in sync. Good luck with that. Your reality is crumbling all around you. And the thing is, you know it. That’s why you’re pissed. You want to take it out on me, go ahead. I’m not budging.

  307. Connecticut has some of the strictest gun laws already.

    This is true but we have to define “strict”. Apparently it is legal in CT to purchase a rifle with a grenade launcher attached to it. What kind of foolishness is that?

    The same kind of foolishness that would ask people to think this is a response to that statement. Liberal argument 101. Take the most extreme thing you can find, its relevance does not matter. Make that the norm, them base your entire argument on that.

  308. “What if we made gun owners carry insurance on each gun they own.”

    I find it comical that there are people out there that think taxation is the cure for all ills. Oh to be blessed with ignorance and a simple mind. Life must be so much easier.

  309. Riddle me this. You have some 200-300 million guns out. Criminals by their nature are not law abiding. Banning guns disarms those that obey the law. How does this work again?

    1997, Australia institutes a $500 million buy back of all guns then makes ownership illegal. Murders since then are up 20% and home invasions 24%. Care to explain?

  310. Huck – “Just imagine how we’d feel if we found out tomorrow that Adam Lanza had actually got his guns as a result of a Canadian operation to let guns walk into the US in order to prove how insufficient the Canadian guns laws were.”

    Superb analogy. Major HT.

    R – “We want to take away your f*cking glock and bushmaster (or whatever it’s called). Keep your old fashioned six shooter and rifle. Fine with me. Have a ball. But you don’t get to play Rambo anymore.”

    Guess again. It is YOU who don’t get to play, your fantasies of “Rambo” and a “gun-free” America notwithstanding. My constitution says so, and so do my 4.3 million fellow NRA members. Get used to it.

    R again – “This ain’t an all or nothing proposition. And it’s no more a slippery slope than my telling you that you can’t screw a 13 year old.”

    You apparently didn’t know the same 13 year-olds I knew when I was 13. Now THERE were some slippery slopes!

  311. “Beating the blizzard home will be a close call if it comes sooner than expected. Rutherford Noah and rabbit, This may be your white Christmas.”

    Our weatherman is calling for tropical storm force winds on Thursday. Rain then snow. We are going shopping Thursday morning, stocking up and spending a couple days inside.

  312. “it takes me about 1.5 seconds to put a new moon clip in.”

    Fine so let’s do the math. Lets say your clip holds 10 bullets. That means you have to do your 1.5 second clip change 3 times as often as someone with a 30 bullet clip. I wager that’s one kid still alive with you as the shooter.

    Why do you want to resist the obvious? Limit the clips. Where’s the harm for you in that? If you need more than 10 billets to hit your target you’re a lousy shot.

  313. “Fine so let’s do the math. Lets say your clip holds 10 bullets. That means you have to do your 1.5 second clip change 3 times as often as someone with a 30 bullet clip. I wager that’s one kid still alive with you as the shooter.”

    Yes, let’s do the math.

    The number going around is “at least 100 rounds” fired in this shooting. That’s 15 seconds of reload time. Assume twice as many rounds were fired. That’s 30 seconds.

    You truly think 30 seconds would have made a difference in even 1 life here? How so?

  314. “What if you take two or three loaded guns to commit a mass murder. That solves your reloading problem.”

    Yes it does.

    Another thing that would solve it is illegal clip size. People are assuming just because something is rendered illegal that it will solve a problem, as if nobody possesses anything that they aren’t supposed to.

    If only we tried that with meth and crack. Why, we’d solve America’s drug problem.

  315. R@368 “We want to take away your f*cking glock and bushmaster (or whatever it’s called)”

    Rutherford, if you are going to advocate taking guns away from the populace then you need to take a short course in riflery and understand the terminology before making statements like you just did. Do you know what the term semi-automatic means versus automatic?

    Huck is right. State your position and stick to it but with knowledge of what you want taken away.

  316. R@357 Good for you! Of course it worries you because you are a parent but these kids need some unsupervised playtime once they pass the “toddler” stage. My three had access to ponies so most afternoons they and their friends would take off for a couple of hours. Sometimes I saw ponies come home without kids but they weren’t too far behind. Were they safe, not especially but nothing serious happened and they had to solve some of their own problems. A lot of parents today would not allow what you are allowing your daughter to do.

  317. Fine so let’s do the math. Lets say your clip holds 10 bullets. That means you have to do your 1.5 second clip change 3 times as often as someone with a 30 bullet clip. I wager that’s one kid still alive with you as the shooter.

    Why do you want to resist the obvious? Limit the clips. Where’s the harm for you in that? If you need more than 10 billets to hit your target you’re a lousy shot.

    This is why I think Liberals are bad people. R would rather get his agenda passed than provide actual protection for our children. The sheepole would buy this as doing a good thing. “Look” they say, “we saved a child.”

    When in reality if we put another gun on the street, at the entry point of each school, we would have saved all the lives. Add in some bullet proof glass at the entry point so when someone is identified as a threat where the door in front of them and behind them locks, you have your kill box to deal with the intruder conclusively.

  318. The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all. I like a little rebellion now and then. It is like a storm in the Atmosphere.

    — Thomas Jefferson, letter to Abigail Adams, 1787

  319. Okay obviously I am not a gun owner nor am I a hunter, my choice. My grandsons are learning to hunt with their father who no longer hunts himself. The boys like venison. I keep my opinions to myself on this subject. I am looking to understand the gun owner. Not hunters or antique guns.

    What is your the interpretation of the 2nd Amendment?
    Do you believe people should own assault weapons? If so, why?
    Do you feel the need to carry concealed? Why?
    Do you think the solution is more guns?
    Do you believe an armed guard in schools will respond in the appropriate manner if confronted with an armed intruder?
    What do you consider an adequate salary for a qualified armed guard willing to risk his life?
    Do you believe teachers should be armed and they will respond appropriately to an intruder?
    Where will these guns be kept and what measures would be taken to assure these guns could not end up in the hands of one of the students.
    What affect will this have on young children seeing armed guards or teachers daily?
    Do you think Stand Your Ground Law is appropriate? Do you think it may encourage people to shoot first and ask questions later?
    Do you think the average gun owner would respond accurately if confronted with an armed gunman in a public place? Would he within seconds be able to identify the proper gunman from another average gun owner like himself?

    So far I hear all the reasons why gun control will not work.
    What changes do you the gun owner think would work?
    Do you believe it is working fine and there nothing we can do to change things?

    Thank you.

  320. In order
    1. For citizens to be armed for personal need, self defense, and to protect themselves from a government gone wrong.
    2. Yes. Because semi-auto weapons are not the problem. It is who is using them that makes them do bad things. No gun has ever killed anyone.
    3. I do carry. Because I want to be able to defend myself or someone else when another person decides to cause harm to another. I can never be physically prepared to defend or stop all individuals. A firearm is the ultimate equalizer.
    4. Irrelevant question. Number of guns matters little. Who has them does matter.
    5. In most cases yes. As it stands now, the criminals have a decided advantage.
    6. Don’t know don’t care. What is the value of each kid that died? Priceless.
    7. In most cases, no.
    8. Always on the person of the individual required/responsible for having the weapon. Same safeguards police use to make sure their weapons do not fall into another persons hands.
    9. Little to none, No different than seeing a police officer coming into the school with their weapon.
    10. Part 1. Yes Part 2. No
    11. Being trained, yes. Not as well as a police officer, no. That said this is not a reason to disarm the public.
    12. More screening for mental health issues. Perhaps a national database to go with a background check.
    13. Always room for improvement.

  321. Poolman’s list of mostly ridiculous “discrepancies” from Newtown deserves two comments.

    First, there are all these references to the “official story”. There is no “official story”. The crime is still being investigated, motives still being ascertained. With the perp dead and the perp’s closest relative dead we may never get “the official story”.

    There was one item in the list that did peak my curiosity. I find it interesting, the psychology of the gun vs the physical reality of it. The appearance of a gun causes most of us to freeze in our tracks. I must admit, silly as it sounds, even before reading Poolman’s list the thought crossed my mind “what would have happened if 10 of the 14 kids in the first classroom had instinctively run toward the shooter, punching him in the balls, biting his legs, etc etc.?” Considering Lanza was a wimpy geek hiding behind the power of a gun, such a reaction from the children might have surprised the sh*t out of him.

    Of course it’s too much to expect of six and seven year olds. But it is interesting that the physical force of a crowd never seems to overpower a gunman. I say that is due to the psychological effect of having a gun present.

    P.S. Technical side note: I’ve read that Lanza had a condition that prevented him from feeling physical pain … so the punch to the balls and the leg biting would not have had optimal effect in this case.

  322. Just imagine how we’d feel if we found out tomorrow that Adam Lanza had actually got his guns as a result of a Canadian operation to let guns walk into the US in order to prove how insufficient the Canadian guns laws were.

    Wow what a loaded comment. So Huck you subscribe to the theory that F&F was a deliberate attempt to force gun control through the back door by initiating a botched operation? Yikes.

  323. Third World insurgents don’t seem to have much trouble.

    I can’t put my finger on why exactly, but it seems intellectually careless to compare third world uprisings to anything that might happen in the United States.

  324. So you DO want to take away people’s guns. C’mon Rutherford…own your position on this. We can’t have an honest discussion otherwise.

    OK Huck, let’s have some precise language.

    1. We don’t want to take ALL your guns away. OK? That should fix the semantic hole you think you found.

    2. Let’s get real, we won’t be taking ANY guns away, The legislation already discussed by Diane Feinstein involves ZERO retroactive action. That means Pfesser gets to keep his AK-47 and missile launcher. :-) He just can’t buy any more of them.

  325. I hate wasting time. Time is all we really have between us.

    And so you posted a one hour video on the batman Aurora conspiracy? One hour is a lot of my time. :neutral:

  326. R not for nothing but the PCA pretty much assures law enforcement would be left to face the wrath alone

    Sorry Alfie, I don’t follow. I Googled PCA and got a lot of stuff I don’t think you mean.

  327. “1. We don’t want to take ALL your guns away.”

    “He just can’t buy any more of them.”

    Yet again why I think Liberals are bad people. He claims to tell a truth out of one side of his mouth then lies out of the other.

  328. To be clear because I see waters being muddied again:

    1. To take away — to remove something from your possession. You must already own the item for me to take it away from you.

    Not allowing you to buy an item is NOT taking it away from you. It’s plain English.

  329. re 392

    A lot of good questions, Just A Lurker. But the answers will vary as they’ll be opinions, and we know how diverse those are. I find myself in a similar situation regarding gun ownership. I don’t own or even like guns, yet I feel it is important that we can do so. I have learned to shoot and know about gun safety. My extended family consists of avid hunters and a few serious gun collectors.

    When the second amendment was written, there were no “assault weapons”. The distinction is fairly modern, as weapon technologies have advanced over time. Nowadays, we know many things beyond guns can and have been used as weapons.

    The distinction as to what constitutes defense has also blurred in today’s terms. Preemptive action has been construed as defensive in our modern world. Perceived threats are considered valid targets for destruction. The Bush Doctrine took this ideology to a global extent.

    Modern America is obsessed with guns and weaponry. In my lifetime, I have seen the great influence they have had over every aspect of our lives. As a child growing up here, toy guns were all the rage and playing war, cops, or cowboys were our daily games and fantasies. We also fashioned our own spears, bow and arrows, slingshots, baking soda bombs, etc. We had no video games. We used our imagination and creativity.

    Hollywood and TV have been instrumental in making us the gun-crazed nation we are. That has been the greatest influence over our gun statistics regarding both violence and popularity. And the gaming industry is HUGE.

    If and until we change what we collectively take in, we will continue to be a product of the unhealthy environment we have established. That means we take back much of the responsibility we have given to others and make child rearing the priority it should be.

  330. My constitution says so, and so do my 4.3 million fellow NRA members. Get used to it.

    Absolutely wrong my good Pfesser. Most NRA members are for reasonable gun regulation. Only the leadership of the NRA (the most vocal, visible part) is ideological about guns and uncompromising.

    Furthermore, the NRA of old was FOR gun control. They were instrumental in supporting gun control measures in the hey day of Al Capone and other gangsters. They truly were in existence for the safe practice of gun ownership. Now they support gun manufacturers who make big bucks off the blood spilling from six and seven year olds.

    They plan to have a press conference on Friday, Let’s see what they say.

  331. Still waiting to hear how forcing the shooter to reload would have saved lives last Friday.

    This is becoming silly. It is a tautology to say that I can fire rounds off faster without having to reload my gun than if I had to reload my gun. If you cannot concede that, then it’s damn hard to have any kind of honest conversation about this.

  332. What if you take two or three loaded guns to commit a mass murder. That solves your reloading problem.

    It also means you have to carry more hardware with you to commit the same crime.

    Why are you guys coming up with every excuse in the world to resist sensible gun control? Honest to God, if 20 dead kids is not enough to move you on this what the hell will?

  333. Another thing that would solve it is illegal clip size. People are assuming just because something is rendered illegal that it will solve a problem, as if nobody possesses anything that they aren’t supposed to.

    So let’s eliminate speed limits because lots of folks violate them.

    In fact, f*ck it, let’s eliminate the entire penal code since every law is violated by someone. Yup, I like that logic. Since we can’t prevent crime, let’s not have any laws. :roll:

  334. To be clear because I see waters being muddied again:

    1. To take away — to remove something from your possession. You must already own the item for me to take it away from you.

    Not allowing you to buy an item is NOT taking it away from you. It’s plain English.

    You are taking away my ability to acquire something I could once attain. Idiot. This isn’t that complicated, which leads to me to believe you are being deceptive.

  335. Huck I find this line of reasoning absolutely astounding coming from you. No one is saying that gun control completely solves gun related violence. The idea is to reduce the odds of the crime being committed.

    Goddam … this is NOT rocket science.

  336. And so you posted a one hour video on the batman Aurora conspiracy? One hour is a lot of my time.

    It was an hour and 14 minutes, if you are referring to the one I think. I did not consider that a waste of MY time. I found it well-produced and based on factual data. That was my take away and the reason I posted a link. As a matter of fact, it takes the hours spent watching the MSM coverage of these events worse than wasted time, imo.

    Although I did spend 3 hours watching Big Bang reruns on TV last night. :lol:

  337. Still waiting to hear how forcing the shooter to reload would have saved lives last Friday.

    “This is becoming silly. It is a tautology to say that I can fire rounds off faster without having to reload my gun than if I had to reload my gun. If you cannot concede that, then it’s damn hard to have any kind of honest conversation about this.”

    Amazing how little value this idiot places on these poor children’s lives that he would continue this moronic argument to get his way in this world. You are a despicable human being.

    The seconds it takes to reload would have changed nothing. I can easily, with the right holsters, carry more than a dozen guns. The fact you cannot admit that 19 children dieing instead of 20 is still horribly tragic and no one in their right mind would consider this a solution tells me you are one heartless fuck.

  338. I violated a covenant with myself and took someone off “ignore” twice today. My mistake.

    “Ignore” back on. :neutral:

    I doubt anyone cares, really. I might be the only one that might, and as stated I much prefer your non responses. Trying to get through your double speak is too stressful and labor-some.

    p.s. My name is Noah, not Voldemort, you can say my name without fear.

  339. A Message by George Carlin:

    The paradox of our time in history is that we have taller buildings but shorter tempers, wider Freeways ,but narrower viewpoints. We spend more, but have less, we buy more, but enjoy less. We have bigger houses and smaller families, more conveniences, but less time. We have more degrees but less sense, more knowledge, but less judgment, more experts, yet more problems, more medicine, but less wellness.

    We drink too much, smoke too much, spend too recklessly, laugh too little, drive too fast, get too angry, stay up too late, get up too tired, read too little, watch TV too much, and pray too seldom.

    We have multiplied our possessions, but reduced our values. We talk too much, love too seldom, and hate too often.

    We’ve learned how to make a living, but not a life. We’ve added years to life not life to years. We’ve been all the way to the moon and back, but have trouble crossing the street to meet a new neighbor. We conquered outer space but not inner space. We’ve done larger things, but not better things.

    We’ve cleaned up the air, but polluted the soul. We’ve conquered the atom, but not our prejudice. We write more, but learn less. We plan more, but accomplish less. We’ve learned to rush, but not to wait. We build more computers to hold more information, to produce more copies than ever, but we communicate less and less.

    These are the times of fast foods and slow digestion, big men and small character, steep profits and shallow relationships. These are the days of two incomes but more divorce, fancier houses, but broken homes. These are days of quick trips, disposable diapers, throwaway morality, one night stands, overweight bodies, and pills that do everything from cheer, to quiet, to kill. It is a time when there is much in the showroom window and nothing in the stockroom. A time when technology can bring this letter to you, and a time when you can choose either to share this insight, or to just hit delete…

    Remember; spend some time with your loved ones, because they are not going to be around forever.

    Remember, say a kind word to someone who looks up to you in awe, because that little person soon will grow up and leave your side.

    Remember, to give a warm hug to the one next to you, because that is the only treasure you can give with your heart and it doesn’t cost a cent.

    Remember, to say, ‘I love you’ to your partner and your loved ones, but most of all mean it. A kiss and an embrace will mend hurt when it comes from deep inside of you.

    Remember to hold hands and cherish the moment for someday that person will not be there again.

    Give time to love, give time to speak! And give time to share the precious thoughts in your mind.

    AND ALWAYS REMEMBER:

    Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.

  340. JAL – appreciate the questionnaire. I don’t see many folks actively interested in understanding others. I’ll bite.

    What is your the interpretation of the 2nd Amendment?
    I believe it means what it says.

    Do you believe people should own assault weapons? If so, why?
    I believe they don’t need a reason to own them; the Constitution guarantees them the RIGHT, including the right to give a reason – or not – depending upon how they feel.

    Do you feel the need to carry concealed? Why?
    I can but I do not, generally – unless there has been a prison break nearby. Like much of America, Virginia has too many people in jail; if they break out, I don’t know if they will hurt me, my family or not. Even the good guys are desperate in that situation.

    Do you think the solution is more guns?
    The solution to what?

    Do you believe an armed guard in schools will respond in the appropriate manner if confronted with an armed intruder?
    Depends upon his/her training.

    What do you consider an adequate salary for a qualified armed guard willing to risk his life?
    It’s a risk kind of thing. Most don’t go into the job thinking they will ever have to risk their lives. Having said that, there should be NO guards and the schools should be open, just like they were years ago.

    Do you believe teachers should be armed and they will respond appropriately to an intruder?
    I think they should spend their time teaching, not learning just enough to get themselves hurt should a bad guy show up.

    Where will these guns be kept and what measures would be taken to assure these guns could not end up in the hands of one of the students.
    See above.

    What affect will this have on young children seeing armed guards or teachers daily?
    Bad, bad, bad. That’s why there shouldn’t be any

    Do you think Stand Your Ground Law is appropriate?
    Great law. Everyone should be able to defend himself if needed. Of course, the current travesty being perpetrated in Florida makes the laws useless, since the President himself sticks his jib in when there is some politicking to do.

    Do you think it may encourage people to shoot first and ask questions later?
    Might in some circumstances.

    Do you think the average gun owner would respond accurately if confronted with an armed gunman in a public place?
    Many have so far. Some would freeze. Some would pee their pants. Some would shoot wildly and miss. Most, I think would draw, fire, and kill the man.

    Would he within seconds be able to identify the proper gunman from another average gun owner like himself?
    The gunman is the man with the gun, so I think so. Two guys tried to hold up a bar in Cleveland when my brother was young and about thirty Hillbillies filled them with lead without shooting each other.
    So far I hear all the reasons why gun control will not work.
    What changes do you the gun owner think would work?

    Do you believe it is working fine and there nothing we can do to change things?
    Not that there is nothing we can do: nothing we SHOULD do.

    Thanks again.

    What is your POV? Turn about is fair play.

  341. R opined: “I can’t put my finger on why exactly, but it seems intellectually careless to compare third world uprisings to anything that might happen in the United States.”

    What is it that makes you believe that we are fundamentally better than everybody else in the world? It is IMHO precisely that idea that “it can’t happen here” that is so dangerous. I’m sure the Germans said the same thing; pre-WWII they were considered one of the most highly civilized societies on the planet. What happened there? Think we are too smart to let that happen? As you are fond of saying, ….pffffftttt

  342. “Huck I find this line of reasoning absolutely astounding coming from you. No one is saying that gun control completely solves gun related violence. The idea is to reduce the odds of the crime being committed. ”

    Fair enough. Can you explain how limiting clip size is going to reduce the odds of people getting shot?

    ” let’s eliminate the entire penal code since every law is violated by someone. Yup, I like that logic. Since we can’t prevent crime, let’s not have any laws.”

    Stating that the creation of a new law is justified by arguing against the elimination of all law is reductio ad absurdum and a straw man. (HT Sheldon)

    “Why are you guys coming up with every excuse in the world to resist sensible gun control?”

    Who judges what is sensible? And where does that sensibility end? If we limit clip size to 10 and some shooter kills a bunch of people, will we then go back to revolvers? When a revolver is used to kill some people, then what? What is the end game when gun violence continues?

    “It is a tautology to say that I can fire rounds off faster without having to reload my gun than if I had to reload my gun. If you cannot concede that, then it’s damn hard to have any kind of honest conversation about this.”

    I have no problem conceding that rate of fire is affected by having to reload a weapon. Now tell me how that would have saved lives last Friday. Would the kindergarteners have gang rushed him while he was reloading? Would he have been unable to use any of his other 2 weapons against an unarmed adult trying to stop him? You are not addressing the question, which I think is quite fair….how would forcing Adam Lanza to reload his weapon have saved even 1 life? You want to use this as justification for law, then defend it.

    “Now they support gun manufacturers who make big bucks off the blood spilling from six and seven year olds.”

    Appeal to emotion. More logical fallacies.

    PCA = Posse Comitatus Act. It says the army cannot be turned against its own people. Requires a declaration of martial law to be bypassed. And even then, it’s iffy.

    “Not allowing you to buy an item is NOT taking it away from you”

    So people can make their own? (Honest question)

    And yes..I am trying to be difficult because infringing on people’s rights should be a difficult argument. It needs to be done with logic…not fallacies and emotion.

    ” So Huck you subscribe to the theory that F&F was a deliberate attempt to force gun control through the back door by initiating a botched operation?”

    I would not be surprised. Hopefully in the seconds before you turned the statement around to me you took a brief moment to actually consider the real point I was making.

    “I can’t put my finger on why exactly, but it seems intellectually careless to compare third world uprisings to anything that might happen in the United States.”

    You can’t put your finger on it because it isn’t intellectually careless. Those uprisings are reactions, not actions. If those actions started taking place here, you can be assured they would be met with similar reactions. If you saw the comment where I articulated my point, I prefaced it with a massive infringement on rights. That wasn’t a prediction, but don’t think it can’t ever happen.

  343. On another note….a bunch of people are resigning today as a result of the Benghazi report that says the State Dept. screwed up.

    For the record, I would not have had an ambassador stationed in such a dangerous and unstable place as Libya. It would have taken a force too large to protect that mission and would have been seen as an occupying force. It would have been better to utilize communications technology, even if it would have taken Stevens off the streets he loved working on. (Condoleezza Rice came up with this idea long ago and I think it bears consideration in a lot of instances).

  344. I am going to back off of the gun debate, at this point. It isn’t getting me heated, but it might be getting others more upset than I would prefer. And I am not one to expect others to endure something that I wouldn’t endure, myself.

    I have made my points. Thanks for “listening.”

  345. What is it that makes you believe that we are fundamentally better than everybody else in the world?

    PF you of all people should know I don’t believe in “American exceptionalism”. It’s not so much that I don’t think it could happen here. I just can’t picture the dynamics here. That’s why I said from the start that I can’t put my finger on it exactly.

    But then I view Waco as a law enforcement action, not a government display of military will. There are those who disagree.

  346. I believe they don’t need a reason to own them; the Constitution guarantees them the RIGHT, including the right to give a reason – or not – depending upon how they feel.

    Good googly moogly. What are you smoking?

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    Please tell me where it says, “any type of Arm your heart desires”? It doesn’t. The Supreme Court said in District of Columbia v. Heller that

    Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons.

    That’s a long way of saying, PF, you’re full of beans. :-)

  347. Huck I think sometimes it’s fair to say that an incident points to the need for reform even if that reform doesn’t completely address the triggering incident. In this case, Adam Lanza was a trained killer (sadly by his mother). He was, no doubt, better at reloading than even Billy the Kid-Dead Rabbit. But not every crazed gunman is as adroit. So I resubmit that a less confident marksman would find having to replace a clip every ten shots a bit clumsy and it would indeed slow him down.

    What you call a strawman is simply an extreme example of where your logic is headed. Take out the elimination of all law (which obviously was my deliberate exaggeration of the point) and stick to speed limits. What’s the point of highway speed limits when most people exceed them and few get prosecuted for it? I’m pretty sure it’s been proven that speed limits save lives. Just as Australia proved that the limited availability of certain guns, dramatically reduced mass shootings.

    If we limit clip size to 10 and some shooter kills a bunch of people, will we then go back to revolvers?

    Every discussion of what free people can and cannot do involves a gradated scale, or a slippery slope if you prefer. There simply are no such things as absolute rights. All rights exist in context and are limited based on their effect on society as a whole. The first amendment is limited. You cannot scream “fire” in a crowded theater. Why? Because your rights infringe on the safety of a much larger group.

    My “blood of six and seven year olds” you label an appeal to emotion. Well, yes it is. Let’s make it less emotional. Do you deny huge profits exist within the gun industry? Do you deny there are folks whose concern for safety is warped by their profit incentive? Why is it not fair to ask which power brokers are behind the current NRA?

    Thanks for the PCA clarification.

    As for DIY guns, funny you should bring that up. Rachel Maddow did a piece a couple of nights ago on “product printers”, basically machines that can be fed a blueprint and then spit out a product. Guns apparently can be produced this way.

  348. Because questions were asked that deserve answers….

    “Do you deny huge profits exist within the gun industry?” – No

    “Do you deny there are folks whose concern for safety is warped by their profit incentive?” – I do deny that. The safe use of a firearm lies with the owner and/or operator, not the manufacturer. If guns were blowing up in people’s hands and causing them injury, I’d be right there with you on that one.

    “Why is it not fair to ask which power brokers are behind the current NRA?” – I didn’t say it wasn’t fair. I only called you out on your emotive labeling. The NRA is probably a private organization, but they have or hire lobbyists to influence public policy, so I would say it is fair to ask where they get their money. I’d also say it is fair to ask where the Obama campaign got its money, but that is another debate.

  349. I do want to toss this out there, and then I am done..I promise.

    I am utterly against the idea of arming teachers. Teachers are people, and, as such, are prone to all of humanity’s flaws, like anyone else. I have seen a teacher freak out and push a kid’s head through a window in a fit of rage.

    Arming teachers is not the answer to school safety, IMO.

  350. I’ll say one thing on the guns and legal action. If Bushmaster has any literature in CT that states the rifle is “state compliant” I think anyone with Bushmaster stock might want to sell.
    The logical progression of this will be a rebirth of consumer oriented litigation.

  351. ” If Bushmaster has any literature in CT that states the rifle is “state compliant” I think anyone with Bushmaster stock might want to sell.”

    That is already being done. The maker of the Bushmaster rifle (among other brands) is evidently owned by an investment group who saw the way the wind was blowing and put the company up for sale on Monday. It is the largest firearms maker in the country.

  352. Samuel L Jackson said this today about the Sandy Hook shooting: “I don’t think it’s about more gun control. I grew up in the South with guns everywhere and we never shot anyone. This [shooting] is about people who aren’t taught the value of life.”

  353. I love knee-jerk reactions like people selling their stock of gun companies. Makes for a buyers market and I intend to clean up.

  354. What is your the interpretation of the 2nd Amendment?
    That the citizenry can maintain the power to curtail enemies in defense of the nation.
    Do you believe people should own assault weapons? If so, why?
    Loaded question,fallacy based.
    Do you feel the need to carry concealed? Why?
    Personally no but I have carried in the past and those guns were not legal.
    Do you think the solution is more guns?
    Again loaded question,kind of stupid one too.
    Do you believe an armed guard in schools will respond in the appropriate manner if confronted with an armed intruder?
    I do not hold much faith in what would inevitably be the quality of guard the public school system of America could muster. I also do not believe it is the best solution
    What do you consider an adequate salary for a qualified armed guard willing to risk his life?
    $4,500/month
    Do you believe teachers should be armed and they will respond appropriately to an intruder?
    No this alters the character we should desire to have in the classroom
    Where will these guns be kept and what measures would be taken to assure these guns could not end up in the hands of one of the students.
    blank stare at screen,let the horse die will you!
    What affect will this have on young children seeing armed guards or teachers daily?
    statistically irrelevant without any number of variables truly accounted for that may actually never transpire
    Do you think Stand Your Ground Law is appropriate? Do you think it may encourage people to shoot first and ask questions later?
    Fallacy again. SYG as usually put forth is not meant to allow for the shirt first scenario other than when quite frankly “Too fucking bad for you” applies.
    Do you think the average gun owner would respond accurately if confronted with an armed gunman in a public place? Would he within seconds be able to identify the proper gunman from another average gun owner like himself?
    Total bullshit question,I was sick of saying loaded. There is precedent that law abiding carrying individuals have stepped up and saved lives. I can tell you this though. There are civilians far better than any number of LEO’s at identifying a target and taking it out properly. Wrap your head around that sucky bit o’ truth.
    So far I hear all the reasons why gun control will not work.
    What changes do you the gun owner think would work?
    “gun control” is a misnomer
    Do you believe it is working fine and there nothing we can do to change things?
    Again since the “it” in question isn’t the only part of the full question set that needs to be addressed your smugness reeks. Society can be afforded the opportunity to better itself but not solely by government action or some warped social engineering pogrom.

  355. Noah there is something to be said about how the gun manufacturers who actively marketed “state compliant” weapons are really no better off than the tobacco folks.
    Now I’m all for you smoking and shooting stuff but when it comes to good business behavior and good neighbor stuff there are lines that shouldn’t be crossed or blurred.

  356. As I mentioned, the last gun show I went to was nothing like the few I went to with my Dad back in the day. It used to be more of a hunting expo. Now, it was a bunch of video gamer types in their early 20s buying so called “zombie” rounds.

    Where were the outdoorsmen?

    What I hate about these assault rifles are that they are hip with a segment of the population that I plain and simply don’t trust.

    Make the damn things look more nerdy or something…more brown wood……I don’t know.

  357. I won’t post the videos but hot damn, there are YouTube vids out there right up Poolman’s alley. “Newtown False Flag Event to Encourage Gun Control”.

    Well Poolman, you’re not alone in your “theories”. It’s a strange world out there gang.

  358. @ Huck many states either had or put forth legislation that focused on assault weapons. The Nutmeg State did as well and when they defined assault weapon one had to have a number of components to be deemed such. Well the makers just dropped x number of feature points and viola its state compliant.
    for CT see here

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