What Petraeus Reminds Us About Bill Clinton

November 15, 2012 at 1:37 am 241 comments

When you bring up the impeachment of the 42nd President, Bill Clinton, you will likely get the following vulgar response from the average progressive: “Puhleeze, he was impeached over a blow job.” Heck, I don’t consider myself a radical leftist and this has typically been my response. Of course, I’m wrong and so are my fellow liberals. Unlike Andrew Johnson, impeached more than a century earlier, Clinton actually committed a crime, perjury. However, recent events cast the Monica Lewinsky scandal in an entirely different light in my opinion.

Last week retired General David Petraeus resigned as head of the CIA after he revealed that he had been in an extramarital affair with his biographer, Paula Broadwell. Some folks consider it a non-starter and wonder why Petraeus felt he needed to resign. Well first of all, he did not honorably fall on his sword. He was asked to resign by his direct superior, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper and had this not happened, we have no reason to doubt Petraeus would have tried to salvage his job. The affair supposedly ended months before he was caught by the FBI so where was his honorable conscience in the interim? Even if we buy the notion that he resigned because he felt he dishonored the CIA and even if most of us agree on the immorality of his infidelity, his resignation was necessary for a far more important reason.

David Petraeus was America’s top spy. He had access to highly classified information. An extramarital affair puts him directly in the line of fire of a potential extortion. He could have been blackmailed by any third party that became aware of the affair. He also could have been blackmailed by Broadwell herself if she perceived herself the scorned lover. Clearly it appears that Broadwell sent emails to another woman (Jill Kelley) warning her to stop flirting with Petraeus so Broadwell herself seems to have been slightly unhinged. So Petraeus’ conduct goes beyond just poor judgment or immorality. His conduct put our entire national security at risk. He absolutely had to resign.

And that brings us back to Bill Clinton. As President, Bill Clinton had access to classified information, not the least of which were the codes to the nuclear arsenal. While history may record Monica Lewinsky as a harmless naive intern, Clinton’s consorting with her made him vulnerable to extortion just as it did with General Petraeus. We have a tendency to look the other way when presidents misbehave sexually (see FDR and Kennedy for starters) but the Petraeus affair should make us rethink this tendency. Just as there is a zero tolerance policy for adultery within the CIA, so should it be for the presidency. In retrospect, Clinton should have resigned. Perhaps the next president who cannot control his libido will set a proper precedent and step aside if he gets caught with his pants down.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

Photo of Petraeus by Darren Livingston (Central Intelligence Agency) [Public domain], via Wikimedia Commons

Photo of Clinton by Bob McNeely, The White House [1] [Public domain], via Wikimedia Commons

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Election 2012: Three Open Letters When and When Not to Play the Race Card

241 Comments Add your own

  • 1. James  |  November 15, 2012 at 9:15 am

    I basically agree. Another factor may have been Clinton’s diverted attention to the growing jihadist terrorist threat.

  • 2. Raji  |  November 15, 2012 at 10:02 am

    It continues to astound me that men underestimate the power of a jealous woman. You “gotta” love it that only in America do we become so indignant over affairs. In France President Hollande is losing favor because of his affairs but for a different reason. The French people can accept a man who is between two women under one condition that it is clear he’s the master.

  • 3. poolman  |  November 15, 2012 at 11:39 am

    Powerful men DO have their weaknesses, as we see time and again. These affairs take up a lot of space in our media infused conversation. Some societies accept extramarital affairs as the norm, but not us. We are supposedly a ‘moral’ or ‘Christian’ society where such things are not to be practiced, and certainly never flaunted. And we are always shocked to learn they happen.

    Much ‘sin’ has gone on that we are never privy to. Today’s advanced communications and spying technology makes it more difficult to keep such things private. It’s important to learn and practice humility and self-control, especially in public office, which is easier said than done.

    There will always be those looking for a crack in the armor. Powerful people have enemies that DO use these weaknesses to influence or blackmail them. We generally learn of these things after the harm is done.

    The Lewinsky affair and discovery was a setup, as this Petraeus fiasco likely was. Eliot Spitzer was another one brought down for his sexual excess during a time he was a real threat to the PTB. Petraeus was very critical of Israel’s meddling in the mideast.

    This goes again to prove there’s nothing new under the sun.

  • 4. Newt or no newt  |  November 15, 2012 at 12:20 pm

    Yes, Presidents do receive intelligence products, but so do Senators and Representatives, and of course their staffs, do we think none of them have exta-marital affairs? I think we are nation of prudes if we think it is even remotely feasible we can bed check all of them.

  • 5. James  |  November 15, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    We need standards to follow, and one is that our leaders and others who might be susceptable to black mail will not behave in ways that may hurt our country or discredit the offices they hold.

    As newt noted, we cannot make universal bed checks. and we are too prudish, but when an indiscretion becomes blatant, consequences follow.

    There really is nothing new under the sun. We are still Cro- magnons who tweet.

  • 6. Newt or no newt  |  November 15, 2012 at 9:40 pm

    I think the bedroom is off limits. Define blatant?

  • 7. James  |  November 15, 2012 at 10:55 pm

    Penn State, rape, or assault.

  • 8. Newt or no newt  |  November 15, 2012 at 11:25 pm

    That is different James and you know it. Don’t be dense. You knew I was referring to consensual sexual behavior between two adults.

  • 9. James  |  November 16, 2012 at 12:27 am

    I know what you meant. I was describing what I meant when I wrote “blatant” because you asked..

    Consensual sex is not always as willing as it seems. Unequal power or coercion can lead to entrapment when one partner appears to be consenting when he/she really isn’t.

    I have a problem with exploitation, sexual or otherwise.

  • 10. James  |  November 16, 2012 at 12:44 am

    For example, a high school classmate visited another classmate when her parents were gone. He told her how it would be, and if she refused, he would kill her parents. My wife was the only person she told, and that was five or six years ago. It was “blatant” to the extreme.

  • 11. Rutherford  |  November 16, 2012 at 2:07 am

    Off topic … Mitt talks to donors again acting as though no one else is listening … and craps his pants. Bobby Jindal and Kelly Ayote say he’s full of sh*t.

    So much for my hope that Romney might help the Obama administration. If I were Obama, I wouldn’t pay him the time of day henceforth.

  • 12. Newt or no newt  |  November 16, 2012 at 2:22 am

    #10 More like rape by means of coercion, I think James. Having sex in the middle of the street would be blatant, in my estimation. I’m against both and think both should be prosecuted.

  • 13. Newt or no newt  |  November 16, 2012 at 2:32 am

    I agree Rutherford, I think the GOP would like for him to just disappear too. Finally something all Americans can agree on.

  • 14. James  |  November 16, 2012 at 9:11 am

    That’s why I mentioned “rape” newt. Sometimes, it is when it doesn’t appear to be. We agree.

    I don’t think Romney cares. Do you remember when Nixon told reporters “you won’t have Nixon to kick around any more.”?

    I just heard that Justin Timberlake and Jessica Beal gave a million dollars to the hurricane relief fund.

  • 15. James  |  November 16, 2012 at 9:35 am

    Rutherford, there is more to our movie script.

    Hot Air says Time Magazine reports that after running with Lance Armstrong, Broadwell said her ultimate plan was to run for the Senate. Patreaus argued against it because Broadwell’s ideology was neither Republican or Democratic.

  • 16. PFesser  |  November 16, 2012 at 9:41 am

    Rutherford – You have to get this Kabaservice book, Rule and Ruin. It’s long – I’ve been hitting it two hours every morning – but it is fascinating.

    This war in the Republican Party between the conservatives and moderates has been going on since the Goldwater days. The more I read, the more I think that the Moderate Republicans will be far better for this country than the Libertarians. Goldwater is also losing his shine for me, and Eisenhower now seems to be more my man. My god, what a human being he was!

    In the early ‘sixties, a group of young Republicans formed the Ripon society – named after Ripon, WI, to try to counter the rightward shift of the Goldwater-ites. They said they were “tired of apologizing to the world of ideas for being Republicans and to fellow Republicans for being interested in ideas.” Familiar? “They worried that the party might not survive (really?) if the idealogical conservatives succeeded in forcing a break with its progressive tradition.” (Which, of course, they did. In particular, they were aghast at the “Southern Strategy” – the strategy of courting southern segregationists to bring them into the Party.

    The Ripon Society felt that the idealogical center was owned by Kennedy, but after his death they felt that Goldwater would likely be the candidate in 1964 and that would be the death of the Republican party. They then penned a manifesto, “A Call to Excellence in Leadership: An Open Letter to the New Generations of Republicans.” This was picked and printed in full by newspapers across the country. I’m trying to get a copy now.

    Of course, the challenge to Goldwater failed. Opposition to the Southern Strategy failed. How prescient were their predictions! Goldwater, the Southern Strategy and now their courtship of the Religious Right has alienated nearly every large voting bloc in America. Nobody left in this hulking shell that used to be the proud GOP except old white men.

    And old men die.

  • 17. Raji  |  November 16, 2012 at 9:50 am

    R@11
    Why Romney Never Saw It Coming
    He was the numbers guy. But in the end his numbers were all wrong.

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2012/11/why_romney_was_surprised_to_lose_his_campaign_had_the_wrong_numbers_bad.html

  • 18. PFesser  |  November 16, 2012 at 10:45 am

    Well, I see Egypt has declared its intentions vis a vis Gaza.

    Nice going, BO, on the Arab Spring thing. How’s that workin’ for you?

    If they do not leave Israel alone, in five years we will all be able to vacation in Cairo. Cairo, Israel that is.

  • 19. Noah  |  November 16, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    Go go unions. Hostess to go out of business and 18500 jobs will be lost. Where is the government bail out?

  • 20. Noah  |  November 16, 2012 at 2:50 pm

    During a closed hearing this morning, Petraeus told lawmakers that he believed from the start that terrorists were behind the Benghazi attack. These claims are seemingly at odds with his initial assessment that the the event was a spontaneous reaction and not pre-planned.

  • 21. Noah  |  November 16, 2012 at 2:55 pm

    Money being sent to Egypt should cease immediately.

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/muslim-brotherhood-president-morsi-sends-egyptian-prime-minister-to-gaza-in-show-of-solidarity-for-hamas/

  • 22. Noah  |  November 16, 2012 at 3:28 pm

    Denny’s has announced it will charge a 5% “ObamaCare surcharge” and cut employee hours.

  • 23. James  |  November 16, 2012 at 4:54 pm

    A friend’s brother is a dispatcher for Hostess. He said the number two union thought the company was bluffing. Nice work.

    We haven’t even entered Obama’s second term and the world’s end is accelerating. No Twinkies or Wonder Bread?

  • 24. James  |  November 16, 2012 at 5:16 pm

    The essence of Benghazi is playing about as I described it a few days later. I am just as angry as I was on that day, because I recognize betrayal when I see it. Given my experiences, i take it personally.

    That incompitent amateur is watching it unravel, and I don’t think he has the skill to cope.

  • 25. dead rabbit  |  November 16, 2012 at 6:48 pm

    Yup. It’s official. We were lied to. The bumps in the road were manipulated. Obama was sure a tough guy defending the liar damsel in distress, though. Tough guy Obama makes me laugh.

  • 26. dead rabbit  |  November 16, 2012 at 7:04 pm

    “If they do not leave Israel alone, in five years we will all be able to vacation in Cairo. Cairo, Israel that is.” -Pfessor

    Ha ha. I like that glass half full analysis!

  • 27. dead rabbit  |  November 16, 2012 at 10:55 pm

    Just read that a dozen female Dem Congresswomen think Rice has been “battered” by her critics in a fit of racism and sexism.

    Lol.

    Yup….it wasn’t the fact she ran on every talk show with utter bull shit….it was actually an evil plot by McCain to hurt Rice because of her skin tone and gender.

    How many times can they go to the well? The fiat race card maybe cheapened more the Bernacki Buck!

  • 28. James  |  November 16, 2012 at 11:02 pm

    Even drugs lose their effect if used to often. The race card is also losing its shock value. Obamites should have used it only in emergencies.

  • 29. Newt or no newt  |  November 16, 2012 at 11:14 pm

    Get a better news source guys, Petraeus mopped the floor with McCain today and Harry Reid dashed McCain’s ambitions after that.

  • 30. dead rabbit  |  November 17, 2012 at 12:09 am

    Hey James…did you know that there was no demonstration in Libya? I always kind of pictured the attack kind of happening during some sort of demonstration. But, that’s because I was lied to. There actually was nothing of the sort. Unbelievable. Total fiction.

  • 31. dead rabbit  |  November 17, 2012 at 12:10 am

    Lazy writing….using the phrase “kind of”…. twice!

  • 32. Noah  |  November 17, 2012 at 12:11 am

    Newt, no one is going to get a better news source so can it. We know what the MSM is capable of, and quite frankly the links you post on here, you are the dead last person who needs to be harping on sources, seriously.

  • 33. dead rabbit  |  November 17, 2012 at 12:14 am

    Oh yeah, Newt? MSNBC. Why don’t you explain.

    nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/16/15216937-petraeus-thought-at-the-outset-that-benghazi-attack-was-terrorist-act?lite

  • 34. dead rabbit  |  November 17, 2012 at 12:44 am

    I will speak Newt’s language. Think the scene where they spoke “jive” in Airplane.

    Newt, there was work place violence in Lybia. It ended up being a man made disaster that caused four bumps in the road. There was no demonstration for social justice. Rice et al were lying about that, as MSNBC reported today via comments made by the C.I.A Director this afternoon.

  • 35. James  |  November 17, 2012 at 1:16 am

    Yes, rabbit, I knew there was no demonstration before the attack. A British newspaper and Libyans reported it while the Obama adminstration was still allegedly trying to find its anal sphincter.

    A small group did write an anti movie slogan at the urging of the terroriists. They had put up road blocks an hour to ninety minutes of the attack.

    The fact that I knew what I did before Susan Rice allegedly did shows that my news sources are better than yours Newt.Patreaus provided a possible link to Obama when he said some of the information was deleted from the report that went to Rice.

    Obama said he sent Rice to the talk shows, so why did he let her put her neck on the line with what was already known to be faulty information?

  • 36. Noah  |  November 17, 2012 at 2:50 am

    I find it odd and telling that after Egypt sent an official to meet and support Hamas, that Obama called Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi to praise Egypt’s efforts to ease tensions in the region.

  • 37. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2012 at 3:03 am

    A couple of quick comments before I go to bed. (I’ve been heads down trying to get a “qualification” credential to do some part time work … anything to make a buck).

    Regarding Hostess … you can all just STFU. No one and I mean no one mourns the loss of Hostess more than I do. Because of Twinkies? No … disgusting chemical foam rubber. Wonder Bread? Not a chance … some of the worst bread known to man. Why am I wearing black today? Because those a$$holes at Hostess bought their competitor Drakes years ago and now with them going under, I am going to lose Yodels and Ring Dings. I grew up on those. I remember when they both were individually wrapped in tin foil. When they started stuffing two Yodels with cardboard in clear plastic, I should have seen the writing on the wall.

    And seriously folks …. this gets us back to “too big to fail”. We don’t have a competitive capitalistic system anymore. Foods that used to be made by competitors are now made by the same conglomerate, maintaining the brand names to give the illusion of choice. Hostess, Drakes, same damn thing. Now they’re both f*cked. And it has not a damn thing to do with unions. A solid healthy company can’t be brought down by a union. My better half has followed this more closely than I have and she tells me Hostess was run by Bain-like companies for years now … folks who didn’t know jack-sh*t about making and selling snack food.

    By the way, from what I understand Little Debbie is dead too. :-(

    I’m not weighing in on Benghazi and Petraeus’ testimony till I hear a non-Fox source. I do know Harry Reid has no plans to set up a Watergate-like committee. Good for him!

    I hate to let you boys in on this but when you live among uncivilized people amidst political tumult, sh*t happens. We do the best we can to avoid it and even then, it still happens sometimes. The survivors of 3000 dead Americans know that better than anyone else. Get off the Obama bashing, let’s find out what went wrong, and correct for the future. That is the best course.

  • 38. PFesser  |  November 17, 2012 at 7:11 am

    The best course, Rutherford, has already passed – on election day. Want to see what is happening to the economy?

    http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/breakout/president-obama-why-investors-aren-t-buying-stocks-170535029.html

    I am expanding my company. My wife and I will be very, very careful to not expand to the point that Obamacare will apply, because we can’t afford it. We are now looking at moving the home office offshore; we are a Very Small Company and we can publish ebooks from anywhere in the world – you think Apple and other companies who can also operate from anywhere on the globe are not thinking the same thing? And it is the Biggest Company in the World. What kind of tax revenue would Obama et al lose if *Apple* moves?

    The problem I see with the liberal side is that they are completely naive – they think that if they “need” more money for their pet govt programs, all they have to do is take it from people who earned it. They completely forget that it is a big, beautiful world and that there are other places where the govt GETS it: the way to prosperity is to let those with initiative do their stuff so that everybody wins.

  • 39. James  |  November 17, 2012 at 9:05 am

    Rutherford, I’m not saying Hostess didn’t make management mistakes, but they also fought changing mores and other competition. The fact remains, an intransigent union took them under. The brother of a friend works for Hostess.

    He said two major unions are involved. One, the Teamsters, I think had made an agreement with Hostess. The second, something like the confectionaries union did not. Some Teamsters and non-union members were crossing picket lines, though the unions fined them.

    Hostess made its decision to close because not enough employees were crossing lines to effectively manage the operation. They also faced higher Obamacare insurance costs. our friend’s brother thought Hostess negotiators were bluffing, and they were shocked to learn they were not.

    “It hasn’t got a damned thing to do with unions” is one of the most untruthful comments you have made in a while. The pity is you believe it.

    “Good for him.”? for not setting up a Watergate style investigation? No, bad for Harry. He has already shown he cares more about his party and Obama than the good of the country.

    Yes, it is a dangerous world, much like an unmonitered grade school playground. However, Obama has made our situation more dangerous than it should have been.

    During the Vietnam War, a squad leader gathered his men together to talk after one of their brothers had died or was wounded. He described how each man had become a casualty because he in some way had fked up. It was a psychological ploy to keep his troops out of a hopeless and fearful pit. If they felt a sense of control if they knew mistakes caused the other soldiers to die or endure injuries.

    Rev Wright said after the 9/11 attack that our chickens had come home to roost. In a sense he was right, but now in the way he intended.

    Those 3000 dead people lost their lives in part because Bill Clinton ignored bin ladin after Ossama declared war on the West Bill was too preoccupied with Monica and his poll numbers. Bush worried too much about China’s missiles and too little about terrorist attacks.

    By the same token, Obama’s policies helped cause Benghazi. It doesn’t matter if he or underlings made the decisions. He as our fearless leader bears the responsibility. I was one of the first to tell you how it happened, and so far, I have been right. I don’t know where others who were also right got their information, but most of mine did not come from Fox. it came from foreign sources which were more accurate than the domestic news sellers.

    We will continue to bash Obama because he deserves it.

  • 40. Noah  |  November 17, 2012 at 11:54 am

    Now they’re both f*cked. And it has not a damn thing to do with unions. A solid healthy company can’t be brought down by a union.

    Union, + ever increasing govt taxes + Obamacare + 4 yrs of failed economic policies can, has, is, will, bring down many solid companies.

    “I’m not weighing in on Benghazi and Petraeus’ testimony till I hear a non-Fox source.”

    Everyone here already knew this. Until you have a MSNBC/Ed Schultz to copy off of you have no opinion to offer. A week of listening to Schultz has always given me your opinion well in advance of you posting it. Maybe one day take a chance and just say what you think, untainted by your MSM masters.

    “I do know Harry Reid has no plans to set up a Watergate-like committee. Good for him!”

    4 people die, and you say Good For Him? We know we were lied to, and you say Good For Him? If there was ever any doubt that you put your politics over morals and ethics, it was put to rest here.

  • 41. Newt or no newt  |  November 17, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    McCain video. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021837402

  • 42. Newt or no newt  |  November 17, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    What was learned from Petraeus. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/17/world/africa/benghazi-not-petraeus-affair-is-focus-at-hearings.html

  • 43. James  |  November 17, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    Newt, one of your random comments about the internet gave me an idea which had already begun to gel.

    I contribute to a quarterly historical/economic development news letter, and I needed some ideas besides my account of rural schools.I extended the life of rural students to the modern digital age where they communicate and promote music across the world. Teenagers are building a new culture overlaying their home outlooks.

    I also showed how the new communication applies to local economic development and improving historical societies data bases Then, I Googled and found a media journal whose article was almost exactly what I had written. Thus I had some scholarly support for my article.

    I know you don’t care about this, but thank you for the idea. Do you have any more?

  • 44. James  |  November 17, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    Patreaus’ comments, if true, further reveal this administration’s stupidity. The cover story of an inflamitory movie was the work of simpletons since the Libyans and British already knew it was untrue.

    It reminds me of when the Soviets captured Capt Garry Powers’ U2 spy plane,. The US thought Powers had killed himself because he had the poison with him. Eisenhour foolishly denied the spy mission, and Khrusev of course produced the prisoner.

    The movie story made Obama look as foolish as Eiesenhour did.

    Thanks for supporting my claim that incompitants ran the Libyan policy.

  • 45. Newt or no newt  |  November 17, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    Do you feel me choking you right now James? The point was, the Intelligence Agencies wrote Rice’s comments, because they, the Agencies wanted nothing said at that particular time. The President has a ‘securiety clearance’ and the general public does not, (so does Rice) so they have to be careful very what they release publicly. Rice said, exactly what the CIA told her to say, no more or no less, yes we did further information from reliable sources, but still the Agencies were not ready to confirm any of them. I lived in the beltway for a number of years, I guess that is my blind spot, because often I am astonished everyone does not realize there are numerous levels of security. And how various Agencies operate.

  • 46. Noah  |  November 17, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    What Newt is attempting to do is set the stage where anything anyone on her side says can be dismissed because it was not THEIR words, someone else wrote them and they parroted them, thus releasing them from ALL responsibility for anything they might say.

  • 47. dead rabbit  |  November 17, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    Newt, are you saying the orginal report by C.I.A was the narrative about an ad hoc crowd loosing its temper while demonstrating?

  • 48. dead rabbit  |  November 17, 2012 at 3:15 pm

    Newt. Why did Rice go on so many shows with the demonstration lie? Why was the administration so obsessed with repeating that lie? Why did essentially me and you, free speech people, get a finger wagged in our face so many times by so many people? Why did the Press Sec goes as far as to say it wasn’t an attack on America? Why the obvious rush to put out a false story. I had a security clearance, believe it or not. I know a little how it works too. I wasn’t even allowed to say what I did my first two years in the military. I agree. I could understand a “no comment” response to this. But whats up with cover story that both insults America and was politically expedient?

  • 49. Noah  |  November 17, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    Not that we need any other reasons to show why Israel is right, despite what Polman says…but

  • 50. James  |  November 17, 2012 at 3:23 pm

    i know that Newt. My point is that story about the movie was as stupid as it gets, and that your article supported my contention.

    One of the bases I served on had nuclear weapons and missile sites. A B 52 with a nuclear warhead had crashed nearby a year before, and the command was especially sensitive to adverse publicity and frightened civilians.

    We were told that though we were low on the food chain, we MUST know the cover story and support it. Such a story had to be a believable half truth subject to enough interpretation that it would be plausible for an extended period.

    The movie ploy failed. The administration didn’t really double down on it until a day or so after the attack, when we already had information which proved the story to be untrue.In the end, it directed more attention to the attack and made the administration look weak and foolish when it should have appeared resolute and strong..

    Moreover, the administration allowed sensitive information which could have endangered Libyans, to lie around on the counselate floor for days. A CNN reporter, I believe found Ambassador Stevens’ journal. That in itself is inexcusable.

    I also know about levels of security and need to know. I know the commander doesn’t have his hand on the throttle every minute of the day. He has people who operate with his delegated authority.Obama probably wasn’t notified immediately just as he wasn’t given early imformation about the murder of Ossam bin Ladin.

    He was quick to take credit for approving the kill and conversely the blame for a botched operation is his.

    Thanks again for supporting my view.

  • 51. Newt or no newt  |  November 17, 2012 at 3:27 pm

    Dead Rabbit, I am duly impressed, I also have a girlfriend, who’s father has a security clearance. He occasionally hauls nuclear waste.

  • 52. James  |  November 17, 2012 at 3:30 pm

    Rabbit, the Russians say we were smuggling weapons into Syria and al quieda related groups were using them. Ambassador Stevens may have been a primary player, and he may have been targeted for assasination.

    No one on the outside knows whether or not it is true, and the longer the administration stonewalls, the more conspiracy theories will be born.

  • 53. James  |  November 17, 2012 at 3:35 pm

    Now I know why my throat feels tight Newt.

  • 54. PFesser  |  November 17, 2012 at 4:52 pm

    James – she is channeling Darth Vader.

  • 55. PFesser  |  November 17, 2012 at 4:53 pm

    Damn, this is all right! Downright civil, even.

  • 56. dead rabbit  |  November 17, 2012 at 5:12 pm

    Fuck of Pfessor

  • 57. dead rabbit  |  November 17, 2012 at 5:12 pm

    Damn…off!

  • 58. dead rabbit  |  November 17, 2012 at 5:15 pm

    I enjoyed having a secret clearance and a cover story. It let people’s imagination run wild, even allowing them to believe I was important or held down some courageous job. In reality, I was doing a very boring and wimpy job.

  • 59. dead rabbit  |  November 17, 2012 at 5:16 pm

    I miss Tex. yeah…it might be more civil….but it’s boring. I have to be civil all the time. Sick of being civil.

  • 60. dead rabbit  |  November 17, 2012 at 5:39 pm

    Can you believe the estate tax that’s coming our way? If you get a million dollar chunk of land from your dead parents, you are forced to buy it from the government for 55% of the value. Unbelievable. There should be no estate tax. It’s already been taxed. How dare asshole, wasteful, corrupt, government getting in between a dying man and his family. Fucking corrupt government stealing farms.

    Safety deposit box outside the vault. Get one while they last. If I have to explain why….well….never mind.

  • 61. PFesser  |  November 17, 2012 at 5:40 pm

    Tex who?

  • 62. PFesser  |  November 17, 2012 at 5:54 pm

    Yep, DR – you spend your lifetime like a hamster running on a wheel, with the govt taking part of what you have earned every time the wheel spins.

    Then when you die, they try to take whatever was left. Basically a human life boils down to: you end up giving everything you worked for your whole life to assholes who then give it to others who did NOT work for it, to buy their votes.

  • 63. Just a Lurker  |  November 17, 2012 at 6:56 pm

    In the big picture does it change what happened in Benghazi if it was said to be a reaction to a video or a terrorist attack. Would Ambassador Stevens still be alive or the others? By saying it was a reaction to a video it is taking the power away from the terrorists. It might keep it from spreading at least for a time until the whole story is known. I would think it also comforts those in this country, who might feel the world is against them, if they thought it was just a reaction to a video and not those damn TERRORISTS!!

  • 64. James  |  November 17, 2012 at 7:18 pm

    British; who inherit land start accumulating money early on so their heirs can pay the tax when it is their turn. I hope my wife and I can outlive these bastards so our children get to keep the fruits of our labor. We are working on it.

    Welcome. lurker. It does matter. Our government owes us the truth or at least “no comment for security reasons.”

    Making people believe the world is not against them when segments of the world are against us gives false comfort.

  • 65. dead rabbit  |  November 17, 2012 at 7:37 pm

    Pretty ignorant stuff, Lurker. Making us “feel better” by hiding the fact it was terrorists? Lol…..yeah…did you just get done watching all three Matrix movies?

    The government owes us not to lie. It’s even worse when the lie blamed our first amendment rights for a savage attack by sworn enemies of the United States. It was a cover up meant to last until the election. Not cool.

    If by slim chance it’s the result of an utterly ignorant administration, despite live video, the anniversary of 9/11, the nature of the attack and the C.I.A intel…..God help us.

    But hey….Rutherford thinks we should shut up about it……he doesn’t tell us why we should…just that we should. Because Obama is president. And he voted for him and stuff. Maybe he might go with your “it makes us feel safer not knowing the truth” excuse….at least he’d be going with something.

    Lurker……Is your name Sensico by any chance?….just a shot in the dark.

  • 66. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2012 at 8:12 pm

    I am expanding my company. My wife and I will be very, very careful to not expand to the point that Obamacare will apply, because we can’t afford it. We are now looking at moving the home office offshore

    PF, Obama is planning to extend tax cuts to 97% of small businesses. If you’re telling me that you and the Mrs are raking in enough to be among the top 3% of small businesses, then I am damn impressed. If you’re not … then what is the problem?

    On Obamacare, who besides partisan hacks have told you it will bust your business? Has a non-partisan accountant actually discussed the ramifications with you?

    I just find this business of expatriating to be incredibly melodramatic. Then again, you’re not calling for secession or threatening to commit suicide so I guess you have your head somewhat screwed on straight. :-)

  • 67. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2012 at 8:21 pm

    Newt, I predicted after the Petraeus testimony that the attack on Rice (which was NOT sexist or racist by the way … just politically convenient) would cease. Now let’s make her the second “Rice” to be Secretary of State.

  • 68. Just a Lurker  |  November 17, 2012 at 8:23 pm

    James – while I agree governments should be honest with their citizens they are not. I fail to see what Obama would gain by saying it was a reaction to a video and not a terrorist attack. Perhaps you can give your opinion to why he would mislead. What difference would it make – video vs. terrorist – it happened?

    There were a number of embassy attacks before under other presidents but I don’t remember such a big to do over them. Why now? Where there calls to have investigations or to impeach then?

    http://mediamatters.org/research/2012/09/14/krauthammer-whitewashes-bushs-history-to-bash-o/189890

    I believe we should be aware of our surroundings but my biggest concern is not foreign terrorists. I also believe if we as a country and our corporations were more respectful of other countries we would have less to worry about being attacked.

    Dead Rabbit – NO!

  • 69. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2012 at 8:32 pm

    “The currently available information suggests that the demonstrations in Benghazi were spontaneously inspired by the protests at the U.S. Embassy in Cairo and evolved into a direct assault against the U.S. diplomatic post in Benghazi and subsequently its annex. There are indications that extremists participated in the violent demonstrations.

    “This assessment may change as additional information is collected and analyzed and as currently available information continues to be evaluated.

    “The investigation is ongoing, and the U.S. government is working with Libyan authorities to bring to justice those responsible for the deaths of U.S. citizens.”

    That is what the CIA supplied as talking points … Rice did NOTHING wrong. Case closed.

  • 70. Newt or no newt  |  November 17, 2012 at 8:33 pm

    Lurker, correct, the USS Cole investigation took two years and the Democrats were not breathing down President Reagan’s neck about it. But when you are the first black President things are different I suppose.

  • 71. Newt or no newt  |  November 17, 2012 at 8:35 pm

    I believe this is pertinent to the discussion. http://www.scribd.com/doc/113551289/Benghazi

  • 72. dead rabbit  |  November 17, 2012 at 8:38 pm

    Oooooooh…….it’s because president Obama is black. Lol.

    Why would we let up on Rice? The testimony proves the dumb shit carried water for the liars.

  • 73. dead rabbit  |  November 17, 2012 at 8:42 pm

    5 ambassadors (including Lybia), in all of American histor have been slain. It’s a big deal.

  • 74. dead rabbit  |  November 17, 2012 at 8:44 pm

    That’s all you got, Rutherford. James and the Rabbit are racist? Your punk ass has never wrote a word about Whats going on in the black community. Status Quo is fine with you? Maybe you are the racist, Rutherford?

  • 75. dead rabbit  |  November 17, 2012 at 8:46 pm

    Why don’t you respond to what James and I are saying….Rutherford?

    Is that seriously all you got? Pathetic.

  • 76. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2012 at 9:38 pm

    Why did Rice go on so many shows with the demonstration lie? Why was the administration so obsessed with repeating that lie? Why did essentially me and you, free speech people, get a finger wagged in our face so many times by so many people? Why did the Press Sec goes as far as to say it wasn’t an attack on America?

    Why why why why why. Did you read the article? The CIA didn’t want the terrorists to know that they knew they were terrorists. They didn’t want their covert work in Libya (which was news to all of us) blown. James’ comment about Eisenhower is probably apropos here. Sometimes the government plays the “dead parrot” sketch really believing that those they want to fool will not see that the parrot is dead.

  • 77. Noah  |  November 17, 2012 at 9:38 pm

    “On Obamacare, who besides partisan hacks have told you it will bust your business? Has a non-partisan accountant actually discussed the ramifications with you?”

    Since you are sitting on your high horse preaching to us, you tell us Rutherford. Has a non partisan hack told you what the ramifications are? I bet not. I doubt if it was explained that you could comprehend what is being told to you. Until you understand, maybe you are not qualified to tell us what to worry and not worry about.

    ” Perhaps you can give your opinion to why he would mislead.”

    A blown illegal operation that he tried to cover up and blew that as well. His cover story blown he has been back peddling trying to figure out how to recover. The MSM are backing this play by refusing to cover it.

  • 78. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2012 at 9:47 pm

    Ambassador Stevens may have been a primary player

    I don’t know where I read it but it goes beyond Russian suspicions. Other independent sources have suggested that Stevens was involved in smuggling arms into Syria, again in conjunction with the CIA.

    I’m telling you, the CIA is nose deep in this and if no one is held accountable it will be because the CIA is largely untouchable.

  • 79. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2012 at 9:49 pm

    Damn, this is all right! Downright civil, even.

    See what I mean PF? The Obama win had at least one benefit … some RL blog house cleaning. Enjoy it while it lasts. ;-)

  • 80. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2012 at 9:53 pm

    I miss Tex. yeah…it might be more civil….but it’s boring. I have to be civil all the time. Sick of being civil.

    Your lack of civility has usually been a cut above the rest. For all our differences, I find you honest and not in the tank for anyone. I made a mistake bashing you about “Mitt-love”. I didn’t realize that your reaction matched that of MUCH of the country. Fortunately, not enough of the country to get him elected. ;-)

  • 81. Rutherford  |  November 17, 2012 at 9:55 pm

    Don’t know much about the estate tax but what you say, Rabbit, makes sense to me. No reason why the government should “inherit” any of my stuff when I croak.

  • 82. dead rabbit  |  November 17, 2012 at 10:19 pm

    Rutherford…..am I reading you right? You think the cover story about the spontaneous riots and the movie was made up by the C.I.A. And that Rice was unknowingly spreading this ….cough…errr….cover story for them? And the non stop lectures about responsbility aimed at people like me and you also nothing more then a ruse orchestrated by the C.IA.?

    Come on man.

    Why not “no comment….there is an ongoing investigation” ?

    Obama stood up in front of the UN and wagged his finger at America over the attack. That was all a part of the C.I.A. cover story?

    So….Rice was oddly told by the C.I.A to go on all those shows.?

    And why go with the Al Queda is “decimated” line while on those talk shows. Wow. What an odd time for the Ambassador to the UN to make the Sunday morning rounds with Al Queda is decimated.

  • 83. dead rabbit  |  November 17, 2012 at 10:48 pm

    Noah makes a great point. Rutherford’s response to Pfessor sums up all of Obamacare. Relax. Trust us. It’s not a tax. Of course it is a tax, your honor. Read the bill after it passes. Trust us.

    Fact is, R doesn’t have the slightest clue about the bill’s ramification for people like Pfessor.

    Come on Pfessor. Relax, maaaan. Hire an expert.

  • 84. Just a Lurker  |  November 17, 2012 at 10:48 pm

    Newt – IMO Obama being black is just a part of it. The biggest problem the Republicans have with him is he is NOT a Republican. Obama ran a good campaign, he had the right credentials, the world approved, gave a great speech but most of all a lot of people voted for him. The GOP was faced with how they were going to turn people against him so he would be just a one term president and they could regain power. So they played to the different groups of people using their particular hate or fear. Hate and Fear has caused a great deal of harm, brought the worst out in some people and can destroy a country. But in the end it didn’t work.

  • 85. James  |  November 17, 2012 at 10:55 pm

    Lurker, Obama based his Middle Eastern policy on LBJ’s old saw “let us reason together.” He thought he had the elequance and Muslim related background to make him a more credible negotiator than his predecessors. Thus, after OWS became active and liberals viewed them as equivalent to the second coming, the Arab Spring became its counterpart.

    Obama encouraged revolutionary movements as they demonstrated and then took down old line dictators with the help of European nations. Obama made a virtue of leading from behind as he put us in a war without Congressional discussion. The operation was mismanaged because we either created a power vacume or in some cases allowed regimes less friendly to us than the previous governments were.to take power.

    Obama made the end of al quiada and murder of Osama bin ladin a major part of his resume. It may have explained why the president did not reinforce the area with American troops or security workers, because to do so would be a tacit admission his policy was failing.,

    The attacks were a public assault on the scenario Obama had constructed. Such a contradiction so close to the election would cost the president votes he could not afford to lose. The best choice of a cover story was to deflect attention from what was a terrorist attack near the anniversary of 9/11.

    This is the only explaination which makes sense to me. There are others including the administration was too stupid to close their mouths in a rain storm and travel to darker places I would rather not visit.

    The administration is hiding something they believed was more valuable than the cost of an embarrassing untrue cover story. In case you are interested, Rutherford can tell you why I take this personally.

    I don’t remember the details about the bombings of embassies during the Bush-Clinton administrations. I don’t remember officials requesting reinforcements before the attacks as happened this time, and I don’t remember those administrations lying with such a poor story after the attack. this attack played out in real time for the maximum psychological effect on the public.No one approved sending an overwhelming force until it was too late.

    That’s what makes this attack different.

  • 86. James  |  November 17, 2012 at 11:03 pm

    Rutherford, we have farm land worth about five million dollars. Much of that is inflated value based on higher demand for grain.

    You know some of the hardship we endured to gain and pay for it, Our children worked in the fields with us from preschool through college. It is their land as much as ours.

  • 87. James  |  November 17, 2012 at 11:12 pm

    I agree the CIA is in on it. I also believe we will never learn the truth without impeaching Obama. That doesn’t mean an automatic conviction. It means putting people who might otherwise escape under oath.

    Race has nothing to do with my disdain of Obama as Rutherford can attest. If Republicans are so racist, why do they support and vote for non-white officials? The race card is losing its ability to intimidate because liberals have used it too often.

    The Obama administration has made lavish use of hate and fear. The war against women is just one example.

  • 88. James  |  November 17, 2012 at 11:15 pm

    I like rabbit’s 82 and 83.

  • 89. Noah  |  November 17, 2012 at 11:16 pm

    “Newt – IMO Obama being black is just a part of it. The biggest problem the Republicans have with him is he is NOT a Republican.”

    I suspect you are being purposefully obtuse. Few care that he is black, this is an intellectual cop out. You cannot argue Obama’s record, so you make it about us, end of story.

    “Obama ran a good campaign”

    Really? I would say he lead one of the most dishonest, misleading, illegally funded campaigns in our nations history, with no close second place.

    “he had the right credentials”

    He had terrible credentials coming in. His credentials have only gotten worse, proof again of his and your inability to run on his record. Your claim has no merits to run on.

    “the world approved”

    Putin, Chavez, Castro, Hamas, Muslim Brotherhood. Yes they approved. I wonder why?

  • 90. Rutherford  |  November 18, 2012 at 2:25 am

    BTW, anyone who misses Tex can find him wasting his time on other blogs. If you really think his absence here means he’s actually doing anything productive, you’re sorely mistaken. You will most likely find him at BiW’s place where I found him tonight (insulting me, as usual).

  • 91. Rutherford  |  November 18, 2012 at 2:32 am

    There were a number of embassy attacks before under other presidents but I don’t remember such a big to do over them. Why now? Where there calls to have investigations or to impeach then?

    Thank you Lurker. I’ve made this point repeatedly. But then let’s not forget that everything the Tea Party protested against preceded Obama but somehow when Obama got elected, it was worth taking it to the streets. With Obama in the White House, all bets are off. All precedents down the tube. He’s “special” and therefore the target of every gripe. It gets tiring after awhile.

    Pfffft.

  • 92. Rutherford  |  November 18, 2012 at 2:41 am

    The testimony proves the dumb shit carried water for the liars.

    So let me get this straight. You’re told “Dead Rabbit we want you to go on Face the Nation and Meet the Press and these are your talking points.” And then you say “I’ve heard this might not be accurate.” And they say “This is all you can say at this time. We’re dealing with some classified sensitive issues.” And then, the noble Rabbit goes on FtN and MTP and says “f*ck it, I’m gonna say whatever incendiary sh*t I want to, cos I care soooo much about the “truth””

    Is that the way you play it Rabbit?

  • 93. Rutherford  |  November 18, 2012 at 2:45 am

    5 ambassadors (including Lybia), in all of American histor have been slain. It’s a big deal.

    Four Presidents have been killed in all of American history. It’s a big deal. But I bet you’re far more interested in the “truth” about Steven’s murder than about Kennedy’s murder which never completely added up.

    Yes, yes … you can now call me Poolman.

    P.S. Where do you get this crazed notion that anyone finds Steven’s murder trivial? Just cos you don’t get the answers you want WHEN YOU WANT THEM, suddenly it’s trivial?

  • 94. Rutherford  |  November 18, 2012 at 2:50 am

    That’s all you got, Rutherford. James and the Rabbit are racist?

    Where did THAT come from? I said the attack on Rice was NOT sexist nor racist. Can you read?

    I later said nothing about you and James but suggested that some of Obama’s political enemies would have let a white POTUS get a fair hearing on Benghazi and not jump to conclusions. That’s not everyone, but definitely a few.

    You and James are rushing to judgment cos you can’t stand Obama, not because of any racism. Looks like the testimony of Petraeus doesn’t even cut it with you. That shows it’s personal, not racist, but definitely personal.

  • 95. Rutherford  |  November 18, 2012 at 2:52 am

    Come on Pfessor. Relax, maaaan. Hire an expert.

    Would you at least agree a tax attorney might know more about it than Sean Hannity?

  • 96. Rutherford  |  November 18, 2012 at 2:56 am

    Lurker, your comments are right on the money tonight. Do stick around, your contribution is appreciated.

    I DO agree with James on one thing. I think Obama thought he could parlay his exotic background into an immediate “in” with the Muslim world and they would suddenly see the light and be peaceful. Incredibly naive!!! I’m with James on that one.

  • 97. Rutherford  |  November 18, 2012 at 3:00 am

    I also believe we will never learn the truth without impeaching Obama.

    This is absolutely nonsensical. Why do you prosecute A to get the truth out of B? You prosecute B.

    Now, if we wanna talk about whether the POTUS should be subpoenaed to testify to congressional hearings, that’s a horse of a different color. But yes, I’m a realist … such a subpoena would be answered with “executive privilege”. Still impeachment is not the answer. The man committed no crime.

  • 98. Rutherford  |  November 18, 2012 at 3:10 am

    Let me close tonight with two comments, one political and one purely personal and lighthearted for a change.

    I took my weekly dose of Up with Chris Hayes this morning and I must confess to a glaring bizarre contradiction … maybe it’s called cognitive dissonance? During the first half of the show, the panel talked about how Federal debt and deficits don’t matter. Then, they talked in the next hour about how personal debt was crippling families and some panelists were championing debt forgiveness on a massive scale.

    Now I’m not one of these folks who thinks the family checkbook is equivalent to the Government one … that is way too simplistic an analogy. But the principle that debt can be dangerous … and the way these panelists could not see the danger for the country but could clearly see it for the family kinda boggled my mind.

    OK, now on a personal note, the Lawson family grew today. After almost two years of promising my daughter a second cat, we finally broke down and got one from the local shelter. His name is Sox (based on his white paws which contrast with his otherwise black fur) and he joins Ollie in the mission to prove that the animals really rule the household.

    BTW, a better name for him might have been Tennessee Tuxedo cos he has white fur on his neck and upper chest also so he looks like he’s wearing a tux. :-) In any case, my daughter is in seventh heaven. Ollie is old, fat and aloof. This new one is playful and affectionate. Watching a kid delight in a new pet, makes you forget for a minute how complicated and troubling our adult lives can be.

  • 99. PFesser  |  November 18, 2012 at 4:25 am

    Rutherford – on cats: I let my nineteen year-old college boy get a cat a couple of months ago. He is a gray tabby named “Max.” I’m no cat person but love this critter. He is extremely affectionate and comes to sleep between my feet anytime I am in my recliner, staying for hours. He is the most vocal cat I have ever seen and had developed a strong preference for using the out-of-doors instead of his litter box, which he lets us know in no uncertain terms. What a fine addition to our aging family of dogs.

  • 100. PFesser  |  November 18, 2012 at 8:41 am

    Still slogging through “Rule and Ruin,” R. I am now at 20%, according to my Kindle.

    My older brother once asked me, what was the purpose of learning history. This book is the best answer I’ve seen: To see where you are going you need to see where you’ve been.

    I am now at the 1964 Republican convention – the Goldwater-ites are executing a coup d’etat and forcing all elements of moderation out of the Party. They violated and ignored the long tradition of inclusivity in the Repuplicans, and refused to even allow any discussion of moderate planks in the platform. Senator Hugh Scott observed that the platform committee was “the most knotheaded aggregation…that had ever assembled under one roof. It was never as bad before, and it’s never been as bad since. But these people were filled with ******this Puritan, almost religious fervor, that they were in sole possession of the truth, that anyone else was an infidel.”********

    As I always say, sound familiar?

  • 101. James  |  November 18, 2012 at 9:17 am

    I explained why the other embassy attacks were different from this one. I also showed how the CIA report Newt posted supported my view. You, Rutherford didn’t say people opposing Susan Rice were were racists, but others have. I could as easily say the Democrats are the true racists with more validity, but it wouldn’t be fair to the majority of Democrats.

    Patreaus’ testimony did cut it. He said he knew it was a terrorist attack almost from the beginning, and some of his conclusions were deleted by the time they reached Susan Rice. Why? No one has been able to answer that question, nor has anyone told us who made the deletions.

    Indisputable facts

    are that the administration failed to properly defend our Libyan mission after they requested more security. I don’t believe that happened before other embassy attacks.

    The administration’s response was slow and inadequate. This was also different from other embassy attacks which began and ended suddenly.

    The administration lied to us when it already knew terrorists had made the attack. The terrorists also knew we knew.

    Someone also wrote that with the CIA involved, we would never know the truth. I accept that. It is also a fact that most of the major press covers for Obama. Given those conditions and the power of lies and stonewalling, impeachment is one of the few routes we have for the truth.

    So far, except for impeachment which is a subjective call, noah, rabbit, and I have won the arguement. Your denying that fact only makes you and your allies look silly.

    You are right, Benghazi made it personal. Our own government betrayed through design or incompetence, its diplomatic ground forces, and four of them died. Nothing Obama’s defenders has said changes that fact.

  • 102. James  |  November 18, 2012 at 9:27 am

    Here is another bit of history.

    I watched the coup on television.

    Goldwater and Kennedy were friends. They were once caught joking about the campaign as they put on their warrior faces for the public.

    Goldwater was taking the momentum and he actually led in some polls.

    Hillary and I were both college students and we both campaigned for Goldwater, though we didn’t know the other existed..

    I was studying for a test when I heard the news of the assasination. I was heartsick for many reasons.

    I also self centeredly knew that Kennedy’s death guarranted LBJ would become our next president. I knew our lives would take a nastier trajectory, and I was right.

    Congratulations on the cat. Your other cat should be happy too. We have four cats,but they earn their keep by eating mice before they can get into the house. They are so well fed, they like our dog often leave the bodies on our doorstep as trophies.

  • 103. James  |  November 18, 2012 at 9:33 am

    Re impeachment. We don’t know what Obama did or didn’t do. With impeachment, he wouldn’t be able to hide behind executive privilege as he did with Fast and Furious.

    With impeachment, we would know who was guilty, and maybe that no one did anything wrong. As it is, conspiaracy theories will mulitply like rabbits.

  • 104. Newt or no newt  |  November 18, 2012 at 10:25 am

    James, your forte is obviously fiction!

  • 105. dead rabbit  |  November 18, 2012 at 10:36 am

    “Is that the way you play it Rabbit” -R

    Fuck no I wouldn’t go on all those talk shows with that silly bunk! And if I did out of pure loyalty, I would do so knowing this might impact my career.

    Dude…I’ve never seen you grasp at straws quite like this. Turn the movies off. The C.I.A didn’t all of a sudden need a cover story. So damn silly. And the constant lecturing about some movie none of us heard of. Yeah.

  • 106. Noah  |  November 18, 2012 at 10:46 am

    “There were a number of embassy attacks before under other presidents but I don’t remember such a big to do over them. Why now? Where there calls to have investigations or to impeach then? ”

    “Thank you Lurker. ”

    How many had drones flying over giving us real time info as our people were slaughtered? NONE you say? It is a big deal, and quite frankly it pisses me off that your kind keeps trying to devalue human life for political reasons.

    BTW 90 Rutherford, insulting the guy behind his back here? Really? Whats to gain by being so petty?

  • 107. Noah  |  November 18, 2012 at 10:50 am

    “You and James are rushing to judgment”

    Rushing to judgement? How many weeks has it been? How much investigation does it take to tell the truth? Hint: A lot less than it takes to get all involved on the same page so they dont blow another lie.

  • 108. Noah  |  November 18, 2012 at 10:59 am

    “Would you at least agree a tax attorney might know more about it than Sean Hannity?”

    Serious Rutherford, you need to stop being so racist. The only reason you bring up Hannity and hate him so much is because he is a white guy…right?

    ” Still impeachment is not the answer. The man committed no crime.”

    How do you know this? We have been given no information, there has been lies and cover up, yet you KNOW there was no crime? How can you possibly make this statement? I don’t remember seeing you being so relaxed in waiting for info on Zimmerman. Though this was a white on black crime so your overt racism probably got in the way of your ability to be rational.

  • 109. Noah  |  November 18, 2012 at 11:01 am

    “My older brother once asked me, what was the purpose of learning history. This book is the best answer I’ve seen: To see where you are going you need to see where you’ve been.”

    All too common a question, and I couldn’t agree more. We are not all that complex a creature when you get right down to it. What I love most about history is using it to predict our future. It is amazing how many times we head down the same road, not learning from our past.

  • 110. James  |  November 18, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    newt I see the world clearly enough, and I have supported what I wrote Obama supporters, including here, have said or written has adequately defended the indefensible. your CIA post is a good example. Obama supporters are quick with obfuscation and counter punches as a distraction.

    People behave the same in similar situations. I survived a dark place, and I recognize the terrain. If you had lived where I lived, you would know the difference between realty and artifice.

    People, not just here, say I am a kind man. I can’t help it. I’m just me.People deserve respectful treatment.

    Under the surface, I keep a resevoir of anger and rage as I fight a war forty years old. Thirty years ago, a Vet Center counselor told me my past and my reaction to it disturbed him, especially since I had coped alone with no help, not even apparent help from God..

    Therefore, the only person I trust to interpret the world is I. When I know I am right about the basic details, I am arrogant, if polite, and I don’t care what others think of me because they are not I. it is part of my pathology. I sort of like you. You grow on one, In this case you wouldn’t know realty if it struck you with a twenty meter pole.

    Give me something better than you have so far.

  • 111. James  |  November 18, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    I was trained as an historian. One recurring theme is people do horrible things to each other.

  • 112. James  |  November 18, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    The White House denies deleting terrorist references from the CIA briefing. This contradicts what Patreaus said. So, whom do you believe?

  • 113. Just a Lurker  |  November 18, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    @96 R – What can be done to change the opinions of those who dislike America? I don’t know what Obama thought but I would put my money on him to make some difference rather than Mr. Bomb, Bomb Iran McCain. I do wonder what the situation in the M.E. would be if McCain had won in 2008.

    The Republicans have pushed for cuts in the funding of embassy security that they are now charging is insufficient. But of course they prefer to blame Obama for not providing it.

    And Thank you!

  • 114. Alfie  |  November 18, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    dead rabbit just wanted to toss this at you from my last post:

    deadrabbit: The reincarnation of Job for the modern-day. This guy has shared a lot of personal stuff and that was via comment threads as opposed to his own blog. His story mirrors many a tale a number of Americans could share if they chose. The guy epitomizes the plucky and plug along character which are oh so worthy character qualities. I wish you and yours well.

    @ newt my farewell gift to you regards your #70
    First off the ship involved in an attack under Reagans term was the USS Stark. The attack on the Cole occurred under Clinton.
    In both cases the formal investigations were completed in a matter of months.

  • 115. James  |  November 18, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    Lurker, McCain is not the issue, and our eyes tell us Obama has made it worse, not better.

    That old canard about Republicans cutting funding already floated, and it was laughed out of the water. Obama had the resources had he chosen to use them.

    Besides, if he was really worried, he could have cut Michelle’s entertainment and travel allowance.

    Think man, come up with SOMETHING! Everyone knows I admit when I am wrong as when I told newt she was right and I was wrong about the election.I’ll do it again, but you have to work for it.

    Thanks Alfie for driving the final stake into the heart of “what about the earlier attacks?”.

  • 116. Alfie  |  November 18, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    You’re welcome James. I’ll follow up with one last history lesson for the room. I think we’re collectively mis-remembering.
    April 1983 saw a terrorist act against an Embassy that makes Benghazi look like a minor event,I speak of Beirut.
    The Congressional and Presidential studies and response were immediate,authorization of funding and permissions for US participation in a Multi-National Force.
    This turn of events escalated to events such as the USS New Jersey shelling positions and of course the October 23rd attack on the barracks killing 241 US Marines. Attacks on the French and Israeli positions also occurred. The latter two losing upwards to 60 people a piece.
    Investigations of the events of 23 October were released on 12/20/1983

  • 117. Noah  |  November 18, 2012 at 3:16 pm

    This is what real men do Rutherford, Lurker. Take some notes.

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/arizona-gun-store-tells-obama-voters-to-turn-around-and-leave/

    Its called having principles, and sticking with them, no matter what.

  • 118. James  |  November 18, 2012 at 3:23 pm

    You’re welcome Alfie.

    I agree. Reagan blundered. The United States should not have sent such a force into Lebanon because it was a major provacation We withdrew after our troops were killed, and our retreat sent an even worse message. If we were to use force, it should have been overwhelming and deadly. In my opinion, our government’s miscalulaation put those troops in unnecessary danger.

    You will recall the wave of kidnappings and hijackings later in the ,80s. I don’t know if it is true or not, but I read that Palistinians kidnapped some Soviets for ransom. They retaliated by kidnapping other terrorists and mailing body parts. The Soviets had no trouble with kidnappers after that.

  • 119. Noah  |  November 18, 2012 at 5:38 pm

    MSNBC has no business calling itself a news organization. They are a propaganda anti-Israel machine.

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/msnbc-anchor-tells-israeli-ambassador-hamas-rockets-rarely-do-damage/

  • 120. Just a Lurker  |  November 18, 2012 at 6:51 pm

    James – I do realize McCain is not the issue fortunately. I believe you give Obama way too much power. He can only disappoint you because of it. I must remember to get my eye sight checked, thank you for the reminder. Will you be running for POTUS in 2016?

  • 121. Noah  |  November 18, 2012 at 8:20 pm

    LMAO! “I believe you give Obama way too much power.”

    No he does that himself by circumventing congress with Executive Orders.

  • 122. James  |  November 18, 2012 at 9:59 pm

    ,lurker, you shouldn’t have mentioned McCain. All you accomplished was to reinforce the stereotypical image I made of liberals.

    I know presidents don’t have absolute power, but Obama took most of the credit for killing Osama. Conversely, he faces most of the blame for mistakes. Obama is commander in chief. It was his duty to provide the protection his civilian employees requested. Obama failed.

    Also what noah wrote.

    I hope your eyes are fine. My eye sight is still 20/20 minus 2% periferal vision in one eye due to gaucoma.

    As a matter of fact, I do plan to run next time. I once lived in Europe, so my first executive order will be to unite America with the EU. Can I count on your vote and a contribution? Just call my toll free number.

  • 123. Raji  |  November 19, 2012 at 9:03 pm

    Wasn’t there some concern that Romney would not be well versed in Foreign policy?

    Obama, Suu Kyi And The Forbidden Kiss

    http://www.ibtimes.com/obama-suu-kyi-forbidden-kiss-889606

    Nile Gardiner, a Washington-based foreign affairs analyst for the Daily Telegraph, commented: “It is rather embarrassing, as well as sad, that the leader of the free world can’t even pronounce the name of the most famous human rights activist on the planet.”

  • 124. Noah  |  November 19, 2012 at 9:16 pm

    These photos just look wrong.

    http://www.theblaze.com/blog/2012/11/19/awkward-photos-of-the-day-overly-affectionate-obama-terrorizes-burma/

  • 125. Noah  |  November 19, 2012 at 9:18 pm

    Not that this is a surprise by any objective thinkers.

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/study-during-final-week-of-campaign-msnbc-provided-zero-negative-coverage-of-obama-no-positive-coverage-of-romney/

  • 126. Rutherford  |  November 19, 2012 at 9:21 pm

    Raji c’mon … that’s a false equivalency and you know it. Romney went to England and criticized their Olympic prep. He didn’t make a cultural mistake … he made a mistake that would be rude anywhere on the globe.

    Obama’s handlers should have advised him on Burmese customs and obviously taught him not to pronounce the woman’s name phonetically. Is it one of his better moments, of course not.

    And it has absolutely nothing to do with foreign policy. It’s not like he made some policy statement about Myanmar that might cause an international incident. It was a George Bush moment.

  • 127. James  |  November 19, 2012 at 10:19 pm

    Rutherford, Ragi is not giving you a false equivalency. I think she is noting the double standard which judged Romney differently from Obama. Its true that Romney might has well have told the Queen she had a nice yard when he criticised the British Olympics, but the American press would have given Obama a pass.

    Our president committed so many mistakes in the UK that I think Kate Middleton and Prince Harry didn’t invite them to their wedding. That is just my guess.(By the way, Kate may be pregnant.)

    A polish official submitted a protest after Obama’s visit to Poland.

    This has more to do with observing foreign cultures and ceremonies than conducting national policy.

    We are insular people and we can hardly speak our own language, let alone other languages. For example, our school’s exchange Spanish teacher speaks nine languages and is now learning Chinese.

    It is hard to understand others’ customs without some training. Did you know Bulgarians mean “yes” when they shake their heads and “no” when they nod?

    I remember seeing tourists in London and winced if they were Americans. I felt better if they turned out to be Canadians.

  • 128. Just a Lurker  |  November 19, 2012 at 10:20 pm

    James – You misunderstood my point regarding power.

    Most of what is said on these blogs is nothing more than an opinion. In that, there is no right or wrong to an opinion. If it is important that you are right or the winner then you may declared yourself the winner. That is not why I am here. You and others responded as expected. If we all thought the same we would still be stuck with a square wheel.

    You felt comfortable giving your image of liberals. I would add my stereotypical image of conservatives. They seem to have no use for the 2,456 shades between black and white. They jump to conclusions quickly and tend to dismiss all information or facts that do not support their beliefs, conclusions or conspiracies. They nitpick, criticize, and look for fault in every move a Democrat/liberal makes, especially President Obama. They have unrealistic expectations and thrive on fear, anger, and hate.

    I do not believe this was always the case. In the past, the majority of Republicans were reasonable level headed individuals both in and out of Washington. But in the past +/-50 years these sane rational Republicans are becoming extinct.

    Re: POTUS. Your candidacy would be a great improvement over what the GOP has chosen in recent years. But I am unable to support your campaign. However, if you were to be successful I am confident you would micro-manage all employees in your administration 24/7. Thus assuring the American public every detail is being tended to and to perfection. There would be no mistakes. I do wish you luck.

    Happy Thanksgiving to all! Hopefully it will be an enjoyable day spent with family and friends.

  • 129. dead rabbit  |  November 19, 2012 at 11:27 pm

    Obama made the same kind of goof up in Burma that Americans have been making for years. Much to do about nothing. Of course, conservatives will jump down his throat over it and the MSM, who would have slaughtered any Republican for the same goof up, will see it has no big deal. Doesn’t mean Obama isn’t aware of the situation in Myonemar or whatever the fuck they call themselves. Place is a Colonel Kurtz esque nightmare. I hope Obama’s visit gives those opressed motherfuckers some more breathing room. Seems it has been opening up there a little bit of late.

  • 130. dead rabbit  |  November 19, 2012 at 11:29 pm

    The one mess up I do bust Obama’s balls over was “Corpseman”. No Commander in Chief should have that much of a disconnect from the military. That made me cringe. He did it repeatedly, too.

  • 131. Noah  |  November 19, 2012 at 11:52 pm

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/19/judge-rejects-hobby-lobby-case-against-obamacare-contraceptive-coverage-mandate/

    All these states petitioning to leave the union. Add to it trampling on our religious freedoms, and you have the recipe for another civil war.

  • 132. James  |  November 20, 2012 at 12:12 am

    LurkerI don’t know anyone with my quirks. Thank God you will never meet another like me. There was a time when my life depended on my being right, and I had to judge for myself how to best confront men who wanted to hurt or kill me.No one was there to help. I was never so scared and I didn’t dare show it.An error would kill me.

    The same rules applied when we survived the late 1970’s and 1980’s drought, hail, and farm recession. Had I listened to our neighbors or our banker, we would have lost our land as most of our neighbors did.

    My storm chasing has put me in some tricky spots which required me to be right.

    I keep score and when I am wrong, I decide why, so I won’t make the same mistake again. Correct decisions represent survival to me. Winning doesn’t matter as much as being right does.

    Yes, most of what discussed here is opinion, but issues are also guided by chaotic destiny. Once a situation develops it reduces choices for alternatives, and step by step, it becomes inevitable. I predicted the success of the Tea Party including the benefits and harm to Democrats and Republicans before the 2010 election. Few if any on the other blog thought they were more than nut cases.

    The Tea Party and OWS evolved as I expected because it was their destiny.Obama’s destiny was another term, and I really blew that one.

    I know the basic facts about Benghazi because they have been reported, and because I lived through something like it, though my situation was much less extreme.

    Thanks for the complement. No, I wouldn’t micro- manage as Carter did. I regarded my men in the service as part of a team. They knew what they had to do, and they decided how they would do it. I knew every detail, but let them run things because it was their responsibility.

    Now, I am chair of four organizations. Our historical society was moribund and I made some changes. We partnered with an economic development head and now produce a quarterly news letter, I also learned the membership list hadn’t been updated for years. I didn’t micromanage, but I knew everything which was happening,

    Several members opposed the quarterly project, but I stopped them because I took detailed notes at the meetings. We needed a vote to approve the financial outlay, but the secretary said her notes did not show we had voted. I responded with a verbatum quotation of the discussion leading to the vote. The secretary had nothing to say and our spending was approved.

    Now, we are awarding people who nominate local historic sites, and managing that requires attention. My wife is good at managing too. We know what is happening, but people do their jobs as they please. Our membership is increasing fast. There are mistakes, but I know about them, someone fixes them.

    That is how I would run my presidency if the public was stupid enough to elect me.

    I am not a conservative, so I don’t dispute your description though like my liberal stereotype it is rather extreme.

    I’m glad you write here. Happy Thanksgiving.

  • 133. Rutherford  |  November 20, 2012 at 2:25 am

    This one is for Rabbit who pays more attention to foreign policy than I do, but anyone else, feel free to chime in.

    Do you think there is any truth to the media conjecture that Israel’s push back on Gaza is a prelude to war with Iran?

  • 134. Raji  |  November 20, 2012 at 8:10 am

    R@126 “And it has absolutely nothing to do with foreign policy.”

    Rutherford, foreign policy has as much to do with observing foreign cultures and ceremonies (James @127) as it does with making policy statements. We have too many George Bush moments occur by our POTUS and these faux pas’ our government representatives continue to make are an insult and an embarrassment.

    Romney is no better versed in foreign affairs than Obama but Obama has had four years of preparation and supposedly training in the fine arts of foreign policy, Right?

    DR’s comments in #130 is just another good example of open mouth, insert foot.

  • 135. PFesser  |  November 20, 2012 at 9:07 am

    Rutherford –
    Along the lines of your post, there is a superb article on CNN about this very thing.

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/19/opinion/wolf-marriage-infidelity/index.html

    What I admire about this woman’s article is that she cuts through the unimportant mist (sexual infidelity) and zeroes straight in on the REAL problem – the abuses made possible by the grossly unconstitutional PATRIOT Act and the resurrection of the Espionage Act.

    I have never understood why people did not pour onto the street with pitchforks and ropes the very day our feckless Congress passed this PATRIOT abortion. I think it is a basic ignorance about the underpinnings of our government and the freedoms it (used to) provide. Even my wife’s ex, a man with an MBA from one of the most prestigious institutions in America, is perfectly OK with it. But enough about the failings of our secondary education system.

  • 136. PFesser  |  November 20, 2012 at 9:22 am

    Well, Rutherford – in the absence of a Real Job, it looks like I am becoming a professional reader. My next link has taken me to Naomi Wolf’s “The End of America.” The Wiki entry is as follows:

    In The End of America: Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot, Wolf takes a historical look at the rise of fascism, outlining 10 steps necessary for a fascist group (or government) to destroy the democratic character of a nation-state and subvert the social/political liberty previously exercised by its citizens:

    Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy
    Create secret prisons where torture takes place
    Develop a thug caste or paramilitary force not answerable to citizens
    Set up an internal surveillance system
    Harass citizens’ groups
    Engage in arbitrary detention and release
    Target key individuals
    Control the press
    Treat all political dissidents as traitors
    Suspend the rule of law

    The book details how this pattern was implemented in Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, and elsewhere, and analyzes its emergence and application of all the 10 steps in American political affairs since the September 11 attacks.

    Looks exactly right to me. Especially number nine. What say you, Poolman? Rutherford? Other thinkers? Raji?

  • 137. James  |  November 20, 2012 at 9:52 am

    I agree with Ragi though some mistakes will happen,.

    One Direction Fan Video-South of France

  • 138. Raji  |  November 20, 2012 at 10:00 am

    Don’t disregard the fact that Israeli elections are just two months away. Netanyahu was already far ahead in the polls. The Gaza offensive has boosted his numbers further.

    Whether or not the fact that Iran is a major supporter of the militant groups such as Islamic Jihad and Hamas, which controls Gaza will lead to war with Iran depends on the outcome of the elections. However the stage has been set and it remains to be seen what play the actors perform.

    Lacking the military pedigree of former prime ministers like ex-generals Yitzhak Rabin, Ariel Sharon and Ehud Barak, Netanyahu tends to seek military approval when using force.

    For example, Netanyahu reportedly ordered the military to go on high alert for a looming attack on Iran’s nuclear program two years ago, but he backed off following strong objections from senior security officials, according to a recent expose by a respected Israeli investigative news program.

    Polls show that a majority of Israelis reject the notion that Netanyahu’s main motive for the attack was political which may help explain why Israel’s notoriously rancorous political system has been largely supportive of the offensive.

  • 139. James  |  November 20, 2012 at 10:16 am

    Obama’s policy has further isolated Israel They could count on Egypt to remain tacitly neutral, but now, the new government is sympathetic to the terrorists. Turkey has also slipped further into the anti- Israel camp, and since we have been leaving Iraq prematurely, it and Iran have become closer.

    Israel faces a serious attack, with missiles falling on them. Unlike other times, the majority probably feels threatened.

  • 140. James  |  November 20, 2012 at 10:45 am

    Pfessor, Mark Steyn has also written on the subject. I think we are headed in that direction, especially if the UN gains more influence and implements some of its plans. We may be enslaved so gradually we won’t notice.

    Our society needs to teach the younger generation how economics and governments work if our freedoms are to survive.

    Something unique may be a countervailing force. Social media is creating a homogineous culture overlaying local attitudes and values. One Dimension, a British boy band is the latest fantacy of maybe a billion teenaged girls. Their flash mobs and fan videos like One Direction Fan video-South of France are multiplying like rabbits. The girls are also communicating with each other and borrowing dance steps etc.

    Others, like “What Makes You Beautiful” by One Direction & Cimorelli is a fan cover song which has turned six home -schooled girls from Sacramento into international celebraties. Their various youtube accounts have gotten about 250 million hits through out the world.

    I think the social media could be used to combat dictatorial tendencies as music and VCRs were weapons against the Soviet Union and tweets and facebook were used to coordinate Iran’s Green Revolution and Ukraine’s Orange Revolution.

  • 141. Noah  |  November 20, 2012 at 11:39 am

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/19/house-republicans-susan-rice_n_2162419.html?1353384122&ncid=webmail3

    “A group of 97 House Republicans sent a letter to President Barack Obama on Monday, saying that U.N. Ambassador Susan Rice misled the nation about the attack on the U.S. consulate in Libya, making her unfit to be a candidate to succeed Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton.

    The letter, organized by South Carolina freshman Jeff Duncan, said Rice’s “misleading statements” about the attack that led to the deaths of Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans “caused irreparable damage to her credibility both at home and around the world.”

    Here here!

  • 142. Noah  |  November 20, 2012 at 11:58 am

    Joe Biden Reassures Sandy Victims: ‘You’ve Got A Homeboy In The Deal Who Gets It’ ~oye..and they call us racists.

  • 143. Raji  |  November 20, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    History does repeat itself. Looking back to the early fifties during the era of McCarthyism and Hooverism there were many similar programs that you have mentioned, Pfesser in your list of ten that could lead to fascism that applied to communism as well.

    I think I would fear the anti-fascism community of today on the same level we needed to fear the anti-communism community of the fifties. The actions of the anti-communism committees were as much a threat to our freedom as communism itself.

    Edward R Murrow one of the most influential opponents of McCarthyism stated in his concluding comment:
    ” We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. We must remember always that accusation is not proof and that conviction depends upon evidence and due process of law. We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason, if we dig deep in our history and our doctrine, and remember that we are not descended from fearful men.”

    This broadcast has been cited as a key episode in bringing about the end of McCarthyism

    The internet today is our Edward R Murrow.

  • 144. Noah  |  November 20, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    I really hope Obama nominates Susan Rice for Secretary of State. As part of the confirmation process, she will have to appear before the Senate. John McCain, Lindsey Graham and Kelly Ayotte will definitely interrogate her about Benghazi, her false statements on the Sunday talk shows, and the changes to the administration’s talking points. Should be a very interesting watch, especially since the Messiah won’t be there to feign outrage.

  • 145. Raji  |  November 20, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    I agree James. I think the social media has connected the global youth in a way that will direct our future or rather their future.

  • 146. Pfesser  |  November 20, 2012 at 9:28 pm

    How’s your class going, Rutherford?

  • 147. Rutherford  |  November 20, 2012 at 9:30 pm

    Driving me crazy and by extension driving my wife crazy.

  • 148. Pfesser  |  November 20, 2012 at 10:09 pm

    Now tell me again what you are studying? I just talked to an English prof friend of mine in Mass. He is teaching a course called “Growing Up 101.” It’s a freshman seminar.

    I told him he should be ashamed of himself. Then he told me he wrote the book and gets a royalty on each one sold and I said, “Good boy.” LOL

  • 149. Noah  |  November 21, 2012 at 12:14 am

    Wondering if there is any truth to this or just an old wives tale?

  • 150. Rutherford  |  November 21, 2012 at 2:08 am

    PF the job can best be described as search engine research and there is a pretty intensive qualification process for it that I’m going through. It’s way more subjective than I’d like and currently the quality of my work is “slightly better than sucks”. Hence I’ve been heads down trying to improve before the qualification exam at the end of the week.

    I may write a new post in a day or so if for no other reason than to escape the madness for a bit. Adding slightly to my stress level is our new kitten who is having way too good a time in my daughter’s bedroom, giving us a preview of what he will do to the rest of the apartment. Meanwhile, the old cat, Ollie hears meows coming from my daughter’s bedroom and is looking at me with this “WTF is going on?” look on his face.

  • 151. James  |  November 21, 2012 at 9:18 am

    Another interesting aspect of the global connection, Ragi is the accents. Sofia Jannok, a Sami entertainer and talk show host, sounds British when she speaks English which one would expect.

    However, some Danes, Germans, and especially Dutch display features of flat, US Midwestern accents.. Some of them sound like Iowans. Our Dutch relatives in a northwest Iowa enclave, or northern US Germans and Scandinavians have more pronounced accents as in “Fargo.:.

    Some people are sensitive that their countries are relatively unknown. Kerli Kreepshow sings, “I come from a mystery land named Estonia, but nobody knows where it is.”

    Good luck with your class, Rutherford, and with your new cat.. Our exchange Spanish teacher is studying manderin Chinese for the challenge and she is frustrated too.

  • 152. James  |  November 21, 2012 at 9:19 am

    I made a mistake typing my e mail address so my comment is in moderation.Sorry about that.

  • 153. James  |  November 21, 2012 at 9:21 am

    I will repeat myself. Rogi, another interesting feature of the fast world-wide communication is the accents. Some people sound like Iowans.

  • 154. thorsaurus  |  November 21, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    “Fuck of Pfessor” – DR

    You created a new genre … Porno Memoir. :)

    Sorry I haven’t been around lately. Been extremely busy. Will be for another week or two. Be back then, but for now, just wanted to wish the whole RL blog family a Happy Thanksgiving.

    I hope you all have a wonderful holiday.

  • 155. poolman  |  November 21, 2012 at 3:42 pm

    Happy Thanksgiving, all! Almost time to put my turkey in the oven, as I slow cook it every year. Takes about 20 hours, depending on size. Certain things become responsibilities when they are well-handled. One of mine is the annual turkey. Celebrating the meal over at the youngest daughter’s house again. She does a great job, but seems to stress over it more each year.

    I agree with the move toward fascism, Pfesser. I have been watching us get closer to that point since I became ‘aware’ several years ago. Denial doesn’t stop the surge, unfortunately, if it did any good what-so-ever, we’d all be much better off.

    The economy is picking up here as with much of the country. Housing is generally the best indicator. We have had such a large construction-based economy here in Phoenix. I’m experiencing the busiest ‘off-season’ I have had in 6 years. I’m also busy making improvements to my rent house. There are some things I must improve upon and cannot tolerate ‘as is’ as long as I have means and motivation to change them.

    We did our annual Thanksgiving turkey dinner drive last night at church. Every year we bless more people and it becomes a bigger event. We were prepared with over 1,200 turkeys and all the fixin’s to go with it and had many more volunteers helping this year. Some people waited all day for the giveaway. This year we actually had more than enough. Last year we gave away 1,028 turkeys, the last 50 or so got only turkeys and no fixin’s. This year we were better prepared.

    The weather was quite pleasant, shorts and short-sleeved shirts for most. Got to love this time of year in this place – cool enough to open the house in the mornings and evenings. I think we will hit mid eighties today, down in the fifties at night.

    I have been too busy to spend much time on this machine, but the time I have I’ve noticed the conservatives are still complaining after the election. Some even more than before it in some cases. Many are still cannibalizing their fellow party members. I would think the results of this past election and campaign would prove their methods wrong-headed, yet most seemed to have doubled down on ignorant. A short trip through the blogosphere reveals plenty of sore losers playing the blame game. The ‘religious’ right is splitting apart and reconsidering their priorities in many cases. Several years ago all ‘good’ Christians were staunch republicans. Times have changed.

    I guess a humbling doesn’t sit well in most GOP camps. Too bad. They could easily have heeded sound advice, much of which they themselves espouse. But alas, it is easier to see the faults of others, especially when that is what you are looking for. Enough politics for me for one day. Life is short to dwell on much bloviated rhetoric.

    Have a great day! I’m heading back out to take care of a few tasks. :grin:

  • 156. Noah  |  November 21, 2012 at 5:12 pm

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/21/jesse-jackson-jr-resignat_n_2171471.html?ncid=webmail2

    I am betting this was planned all along. Now they can “appoint” whoever they want in. They knew the name and the fact he was black would help hold the seat.

  • 157. Noah  |  November 21, 2012 at 6:02 pm

    Happy Turkeyday one and all.

  • 158. Noah  |  November 21, 2012 at 6:06 pm

    13 rockets fired at Israel since ‘ceasefire’ has started.

  • 159. Rutherford  |  November 21, 2012 at 6:33 pm

    James, it is interesting to note that One Direction is a product of the competition series X-Factor UK (there is an American version on the air as we speak). One Direction was cobbled together from a set of X-Factor artists who failed to make the cut on their own but were allowed to compete as a prefabricated group.

    They won the competition and as you noted are now a world-wide phenomenon.

    P.S. You’ve typo’d your address on a couple of your recent comments and they’ve hung in moderation. I’ve approved them as soon as I’ve come up for air from other stuff I’m doing.

  • 160. Rutherford  |  November 21, 2012 at 7:44 pm

    Almost time to put my turkey in the oven, as I slow cook it every year. Takes about 20 hours, depending on size.

    Now that is one sloooow cook. When we were in Middlebury we always spent T’giving with my Dad. Now that we’re here, my wife’s family doesn’t seem to be used to our being here and quite frankly they pretty much ignore us. Last year we had some family over for appetizers and then went out to a restaurant the Saturday following T’giving. This year, that Saturday is already booked for them so we’re targeting the following Saturday … but hell, that’s no Thanksgiving at all.

    So we’ll have a nuclear family affair. It’s the one thing I miss from my childhood was the big family T’giving at my grandmother’s house. Lots of relatives, lots of food. I think my mother hated it cos she didn’t like the stress but as a kid, I had a ball.

    Well everyone, enjoy your gobble day.

  • 161. Raji  |  November 21, 2012 at 9:07 pm

    Happy Thanksgiving to one and all. Rutherford I can so relate to the big family Thanksgiving. As a child I loved it, as a Mother and adult I dreaded it. So I started hosting it myself and in addition to family I always included close friends although that didn’t always go over big with the in-laws.

    the best turkey I ever prepared was in a double oven, the turkey in one and a goose in the other. The fat from the goose basted the turkey.

    Much to be thankful for this year although those who suffered from “Sandy” will be in my thoughts.

  • 162. dead rabbit  |  November 21, 2012 at 11:45 pm

    I’m disgusted that the stores are open on Thanksgiving. Disgusted that they’re open for good reason: the shallow, materialistic morons addicted to Chinese made garbage. I feel sorry for the retail workers who don’t get to be with their families. Even my sister-in-law, a pharmacist for Target, has to work a fucking cash register on Thanksgiving.

    I hate to be a downer or sound like an anti-capitalist weirdo, but fuck man. By Friday the plebeians will be literally stomping one another to death for plastic crap. I guess I’m an elitist. The mob is starting to really piss me off.

    I was hoping the Wallmart employees were going to walkout on Friday. Wallmart loves Obama. Loves food stamps. Why pay their workers a livable wage when Obama will subsidize them…the money ultimately flowing right back to their own bazaar of slave made Chink slop. Nice feed back loop.

    Food stamps should be only good for canned veggies, milk, oats, lentils and rice. Nothing more. Not an ounce of meat. Obesity rate would plummet amongst the parasite and helpless class. They would be healthy and motivated to get a job. The food stamps wouldn’t hold the black market value they do now.

    The cheap materialism, the dependency, the herd mentality…I sense it’s all tied together somehow….but I just can’t articulate how that is.

    Rant over.

  • 163. dead rabbit  |  November 22, 2012 at 12:04 am

    Notice how boring it is here now that the conservatives left. Pfessor, quit pretending you enjoy this bland circle jerk. This blog is turning into a benign tumor. i liked it better when it was cancerous. We need Tex motherfucking Taylor back here.

    Civility breeds a cold soup.

  • 164. Newt or no newt  |  November 22, 2012 at 12:30 am

    Happy Thanksgiving one and all! I’ve a bunch of cooking to do tomorrow, there will be six at my table.

  • 165. dead rabbit  |  November 22, 2012 at 12:33 am

    I wonder if the little bitch’s charade will help him stay out of the slammer. Ahh……Got to love Democrats. These kind of people routinely get elected. I’ve seen it my whole life. Republicans might vote a wack job in everyone and then. But, not ones sobbing from a mental institution under Federal investigation. The black voters. Dumbest motherfuckers on earth.

  • 166. dead rabbit  |  November 22, 2012 at 12:36 am

    I’m purposely eat like a bird the day before Thanksgiving so I can crush the bird the next day. What a great fucking meal. Turkey, gravey, stuffing……..I can’t wait.

  • 167. Rutherford  |  November 22, 2012 at 2:10 am

    Hey Rabbit …. regarding 162, when I played your video on YouTube proper, it was preceded by a Christmas Norelco ad. I kid you not. Kinda was apropos to your rant. :lol:

  • 168. Rutherford  |  November 22, 2012 at 2:12 am

    Jackson’s resignation bothers me for only one reason. If the mofo was gonna bail, why didn’t he do it BEFORE the election and give someone else a chance to serve. As an Illinois resident I should know the answer to this but I don’t — I don’t know whether his replacement gets appointed by the governor or whether there is a special election.

  • 169. Rutherford  |  November 22, 2012 at 2:14 am

    When someone sees reports of Hamas missiles after the cease fire from a source other than Gateway Pundit (the only place I could find it), please let me know. ;-)

  • 170. Rutherford  |  November 22, 2012 at 2:20 am

    LOL Rabbit, regarding the “circle jerk” I think you’ll adjust, Honestly, poke around at some of the other blogs (even those of our associates like BiW) and you’ll find unanimity of opinion. Dissenters get abused and then summarily banned (well BiW doesn’t ban to my knowledge). I still think this place has more diversity of opinion from regular “contributors” than about any other place, at least within the WordPress political world. Granted the temperature here has cooled off a bit but that’s a good thing. Sound and fury signifying nothing is a waste of everyone’s time and leads to ulcers.

  • 171. Rutherford  |  November 22, 2012 at 2:25 am

    Rabbit, at the risk of insulting you, there’s a dude on X-Factor this season who seems like the embodiment of you. His name is Vino Alan. I’m telling you dude, when I see this guy sing I think of the imaginary Dead Rabbit in my mind. Can you sing dude?

  • 172. dead rabbit  |  November 22, 2012 at 2:46 am

    Ha ha. My performance would be closer to this legandery showmanship.

  • 173. PFesser  |  November 22, 2012 at 7:22 am

    “Notice how boring it is here now that the conservatives left.”

    What conservatives are you talking about? Spittle-dripping reactionary abusers and conservatives are not only two different items, they are polar opposites. I’ve read, read about, studied and BEEN conservative longer than you’ve been alive, and to paraphrase Lloyd Bentsen, They’re No Conservatives. Conservatives are gentlemen.

    “Pfessor, quit pretending you enjoy this bland circle jerk.”

    When abusive language is *all* there is on a blog, its exit produces a bit of an uncomfortable vacuum, doesn’t it? Maybe now folks will be forced to learn about their subjects before shooting off.

    “This blog is turning into a benign tumor. i liked it better when it was cancerous.”

    Try doing what I do: spend at least an hour before work every day catching up on world events and reading history. It will make anyone a better conversationalist and able to come up with something beyond “Aw, eat shit, motherfucker.” (HT to Freewheelin’ Franklin Freak)

    “We need Tex motherfucking Taylor back here.”

    Tex who?

    “Civility breeds a cold soup.”

    Only if civility is *all* you have. I prefer to think of it as a bit of a test: now that the shiny object is gone, we can see if there was anything substantive in this playpen in the first place.

  • 174. PFesser  |  November 22, 2012 at 8:57 am

    Rutherford – found a good T Roosevelt quote that I think sums up the Left’s Achille’s Heel perfectly:

    I think there is only one quality worse than hardness of heart and that is softness of head. — Theodore Roosevelt

    I don’t think any truly honest person doubt’s the Left’s good intentions. We know what is paved with those.

  • 175. dead rabbit  |  November 22, 2012 at 10:27 am

    “Try doing what I do: spend at least an hour before work every day catching up on world events and reading history. It will make anyone a better conversationalist and able to come up with something beyond “Aw, eat shit, motherfucker.” (HT to Freewheelin’ Franklin Freak)”-Pfessor

    My entire job is catching up on world events and reading history. I spend the hour before work reading about sports. Is there some area you have found my background knowledge lacking?

  • 176. PFesser  |  November 22, 2012 at 11:21 am

    “Is there some area you have found my background knowledge lacking?”

    Not at all; you, sir, are a veritable fount of knowledge.

  • 177. dead rabbit  |  November 22, 2012 at 11:34 am

    That’s right. I will Cliff Clavin your ass.

  • 178. Raji  |  November 22, 2012 at 11:41 am

    Rutherford, @169 a good source, perhaps?

    Gaza and the US media narrative

    [Another development is the recent success of a self-defined progressive TV network, MSNBC, that may be tempted to question the official narrative.]

    http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/insidestoryamericas/2012/11/201211226854665661.html

  • 179. Raji  |  November 22, 2012 at 11:44 am

    DR @177 :lol: :lol:

  • 180. James  |  November 22, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    ‘Rutherford, check Gates of Vienna “Ceasefire What Ceasefire?” Wed Nov. 22.Fighting after cease fires is not unusual.I believe the Battle of New Orleans was fought after the war officially ended.

    I think Egypt’s Morsi deserves much of the credit. Obama was busy partying in South East Asia and Hillary was tasting wine in Austrailia until the heavy lifting was finished.

  • 181. James  |  November 22, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    I like Tex, and I like Muffy. 177 was funny!

  • 182. James  |  November 22, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    I agree with Rutherford’s comment about Jessie Jackson Jr.’s resignation. My biggest concern is with previous adverse publicity, how could he have won by such a wide margin?

    My wife and i are going to be grand parents–a first for us.

  • 183. poolman  |  November 22, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    I just opened my Yahoo home page and now there is controversy over the events of bin Laden’s supposed sea burial. WTF? Some things are never put to rest. Unlike 9/11, eh MFs? THAT is one lock-tight official faerie tale. It’s these less complicated events our professional people are involved in that we can’t seem to get a lock on the facts.

    Thought I’d throw some color in your bird day. :lol:

    I think Home Depot is open today. I need a couple new screw bits and some roofing supplies. I don’t care that these places are open on these supposed sacred days. Power to them. Capitalism is our primary religion anyway, don’t kid yourself. The dollar is King and Savior.

    Just keep shopping, America…

  • 184. poolman  |  November 22, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    My wife and i are going to be grand parents–a first for us.

    Congrats, James! I sure do enjoy the time I spend with mine. I have the two boys, now 9 and 7. Grand kids are the best! The youngest daughter is still trying to have a child and the oldest may adopt a child sometime soon. Her husband wants a girl and she isn’t willing to go through a pregnancy this late in her life and mess with her full-time professional career.

    The wife and I just watched Ken Burn’s The Dust Bowl on PBS. I was thinking of you and all the sand you guys had come in with the flooding. Of course these folks had dirt come on the wind instead of by water. No water WAS the problem and all their field plowing and wheat planting was the major cause for the soil erosion during those years of drought. I lived in West Texas long enough to still taste that grit when I see pictures of those brown skies.

  • 185. Noah  |  November 22, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    I think it is obvious why Jackson won.

    Congratulations Grandpa James.

  • 186. Rutherford  |  November 22, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    “That’s right. I will Cliff Clavin your ass.”

    That cracked me up. I’m more the Norm type — “It’s a dog eat dog world and I’m wearing Milk-bone underwear.”

  • 187. Rutherford  |  November 22, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    Congrats James. What great holiday news!

  • 188. Rutherford  |  November 22, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    Two points:

    James makes the good point (I think) that cease fires don’t always get communicated down the line fast enough to put an immediate end to fighting.

    Second, Jackson’s election was not that unusual. There is a loyalty at the congressional district level that you don’t see state wide or nation wide. Combine that with gerrymandering and you can get what may appear to be odd results.

  • 189. Rutherford  |  November 22, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    “I like Tex, and I like Muffy.”

    James you like just about everybody which is one of the things I like about you. :-)

    For the record, on their good days I like Tex and Muffy too. And I would never put them in the same basket even though Muffy is an apologist for Tex big time. However I guess everyone deserves at least one apologist or should I say guardian angel.

  • 190. dead rabbit  |  November 22, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    I’m taking Morsi in my death pool. I predict he will be assisnated by January 2014. Ain’t doing shit to fix the shanty town and role playing as a level headed mediator on the world stage equals getting whacked, considering who his homies are.

  • 191. dead rabbit  |  November 22, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    Jackson is raving mad in a fucking nut house, the Fed’s got him on one of those boards with lines attached to other pictures of criminals. Loyalty? It’s like electing the Joker after Batman locks him up. Make excuses all you want. No Republican would be elected considering the circumstances.

  • 192. Rutherford  |  November 22, 2012 at 5:19 pm

    So we have it on record that Rabbit predicts Morsi will be a 21st century Anwar Sadat.

    I was under the impression that the current incarnation of the Muslim Brotherhood was moderate.

  • 193. James  |  November 22, 2012 at 6:20 pm

    Thanks Rutherford.

    We are pretty happy.We will be doing a lot of commuting because of our daughter and son-in law’s work scheduals.

    The Muslim Brotherhood is not necessarily moderate. It is a moderate compared to some Muslim organizations. Egypt’s not attacking Israel was a good sign.

  • 194. Raji  |  November 22, 2012 at 7:54 pm

    DR @191 I agree. It is totally wacky that the man got elected. Do you think it was because he was on the ballot and voters just pulled a Dem ticket? It makes no sense otherwise.

    Congratulations James. Being a grandparent is fun. All play no work!

  • 195. dead rabbit  |  November 22, 2012 at 9:32 pm

    Raji, I’ve seen it for years here in Detroit. Blacks will actually rally around a black politician if its perceived the “man” is out to get him.

  • 196. Noah  |  November 22, 2012 at 10:58 pm

    Well said

  • 197. Rutherford  |  November 23, 2012 at 2:28 am

    Do you think it was because he was on the ballot and voters just pulled a Dem ticket?

    In addition to the district loyalty I mentioned earlier, I think you’re right Raji. A good number of folks vote straight down the party line.

  • 198. Rutherford  |  November 23, 2012 at 2:34 am

    Rabbit if you really believed what you say in 195 then you’d believe that blacks would rally around a black Republican cos the “man” is out to get him. But you don’t believe THAT do you? I wonder what percent of the black vote Allen West got, assuming there are any blacks in his district in the first place. Clearly Allen was “persecuted” by the white main stream media. So by your theory, we’d expect 90+% black vote for him. I’m not researching sh*t on Thanksgiving but tomorrow afternoon I’ll see if I can find a demographic breakdown for West.

    Blacks will vote en masse for anyone they believe represents their interests, black or white. Now you may not respect “their interests” but that is another story entirely.

    I hope everyone had a Happy Gobble Day.

  • 199. Noah  |  November 23, 2012 at 10:09 am

    I hear some blacks are literate now. They can distinguish between the free paycheck giving black and the job giving black. As you might suspect they are not interested in the latter.

  • 200. dead rabbit  |  November 23, 2012 at 10:11 am

    No. Uncle Tom blacks don’t have a chance.

  • 201. dead rabbit  |  November 23, 2012 at 11:35 am

    Blacks consistently do not vote for their interests. And I’m not talking about my philosophical differences on the role of government. They vote in crack heads, felons and insane people at a rate that can’t be excused nor explained by party loyalty. There is no excuse voting in someone who smokes crack. Or checked in an insane asylum, fed investigation pending. Or someone who is caught red handed pocketing money. The excuses never ebb with you, R.

    My theory is that many black districts have lost a sense of ownership to such a massive degree that even their communities don’t matter anymore. An erosion that started with the disintegration of the family and works it’s way out to the neighborhood and city.

    I’m not saying you don’t see it sometimes with the GOP. But it isn’t in the ball park.

    Bank on Banks!

    http://jonathanturley.org/2012/11/08/banking-on-banks-detroit-elects-an-eight-time-convicted-felon/

  • 202. Noah  |  November 23, 2012 at 11:49 am

    And I wonder why Michigan is so screwed up.

  • 203. James  |  November 23, 2012 at 11:52 am

    Thanks again for the congratulations. Tom Bodet, who advertises for Motel 6 said the advantage of being grandparents is you can rile up the children and then give them back to their parents.

    I think black districts vote mainly for Democrats, not by race. Democrats own them.

    Morsi has assumed virtual dictatorial powers in Egypt, and this will put Israel at a disadvantage when the peace agreement ends. It is another sign that Obama’s policy has failed.

  • 204. Noah  |  November 23, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    James
    How do you account for 59 precincts in Phili not casting one Romney vote? Or the 3000 polled that not 1% would vote for Romney? This was not a reality until we had a black President.

    What we have now is a block of people that I believe are the most racially motivated group in the world. At the very least in this nation. They have surpassed anything the KKK or the Aryan Nation have ever accomplished. Next to nuclear proliferation, I believe they constitute the gravest threat to our nation.

  • 205. dead rabbit  |  November 23, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    James, what policy should have Obama gone with during the Arab Spring? Sure he had probably one of the most unrealistic takes on how the world works of all presidents upon taking office…but, what could have been done differently?

    If anything, doesn’t the spread of Islamic governments cast a negative light on the neo con pipe dream in Iraq? Iraq was supposed to be a bastion of Western democracy radiating upon the entire middle east. Instead we have Arab populism which spreads stink beard instability.

    The war in Iraq was unavoidable. But, damn did we make a mistake of trusting a barbaric and backwards culture to be enlightened. Hamas was emboldened by the neo con pipe dream of spreading democracy to stink beards. Lesson learned.

  • 206. James  |  November 23, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    Noah, it was either group think or people were cheating. We know votes are stolen, but we also know some Democratic vassals vote the party line without manipulating votes. Maybe it was some of both.

    Rabbit, Murbudrak was deposed after only about eight days of demonstrations. Like the Menshevics most of the protesters were democrats as they were in other Arab countries. /we and Europeans offered substantive help to the rebels without understanding the ramifications of regime change.

    In this case, I think brutal oppression to maintain the status quo would have better served our interests. Iran, Rome and the Soviet Union have proven such tactics are effective for awhile.

    I believe we should have used bribery and threats to force the former leaders to leave office or to make apparent concessions. Their successors would have been apparently more liberal, but would not be associated with extremists.The rebels’ main concerns could have been addressed to diffuse their anger.

    If an incipient revolution began, we could have followed the Soviet reaction to the Hungarian Revolution,. Hundreds or thousands of people died. Those too young to execute rotted in jail until they came of age. Then the government killed them. I think most revolutions if caught early enough would have evolved as the Green Revolution did in Iran. That is the revolution we should have helped.

    Maintaining a semblance of the status quo would have purchased time to convince the majority of people to moderate their beliefs, or as Obama’s friend Bill Ayres advocated, intransigents could have been sent to reeducation camps or systememately kiilled.

  • 207. Noah  |  November 23, 2012 at 4:09 pm

    I get the voter fraud we all know exists. What I am driving at is the inherent danger a nearly 100% racist black community represents. They have already proven they will vote against their own best interests for short term gains. They will cheerfully walk they and their families to their grave for little more than a meal and a cell phone if its free, taking us all with them.

  • 208. Rutherford  |  November 23, 2012 at 7:11 pm

    From the same article Rabbit … selective outrage or you prefer folks who think they ARE Santa Claus to convicted felons?

    Moreover, he [Banks] appears positively conventional when compared to one of his opponents, Reindeer farmer Kerry Bentivolio. Bentivolio is a part-time Santa who is quoted as saying that he wasn’t always sure if he was himself or Santa Claus. His brother described him as “mentally unbalanced.” You guessed it . . . Bentiviolo won the House seat for Michigan’s 11th District. He will soon be joining the GOP in Congress.

  • 209. Alfie  |  November 23, 2012 at 7:14 pm

    Just popped in to share something especially with the likes of Rutherford and newt who possibly read Dana Milbank @ the WaPo,

    Over time he noticed that the imbalance never changed, regardless of which party was in the White House or controlled Congress. So in one of his final studies, Moynihan suggested that maybe the country needed to pursue a different approach, which he termed a ‘new federalism.’ It was time, he argued, to pare the national government’s functions back to those things it could do better than individual states, such as national defense. Then Washington could cut federal taxes significantly with the money it saved and leave that money back in the states, where each state could then decide which model of government it would follow: a low-tax, basic services model, or a high tax, high services approach.

    This from an article found at RCP it looks in2 something that has been discussed here and is based on the thoughts and ideas of a surprisingly prescient democrat D.P Moynihan.

    As for the FP discussion budding between james & DR re the Arab Spring.
    Oddly enough I think history will judge Obama softly on the matter and more the pity. Here in lies a pretty good lesson for us though. Where is the right middle ground on this all? Clearly the cowboy diplomacy and neo-con strategies of the past are not a good fit for long term solutions. Neither are the pure false halcyon days of Kissinger-esque diplomacy and imperialism by proxy. On the other end of the spectrum we are doomed if we follow the Path Of Paul and to a degree Obama with either disengagement or leading from behind.
    Seriously at a loss myself,I know there has to be something and I know the M.E. isn’t the only place heating up. Anyone catch the press on the fail that was this last ASEAN Conference?
    cheers-Alfie

  • 210. Rutherford  |  November 23, 2012 at 7:15 pm

    Rabbit, great comment until you said “The war in Iraq was unavoidable.”

    Sorry wrong. Hussein posed ZERO threat to America even if he DID have WMD’s which he didn’t. Bush 43 called himself finishing Daddy’s business and got support from the nutjob neocons surrounding him.

  • 211. Noah  |  November 23, 2012 at 8:31 pm

    210 dead wrong

  • 212. PFesser  |  November 23, 2012 at 8:41 pm

    R – re: 210. I’m rather chronically pissed at Bush-the-Lesser, but I think you need to be fair. Hussein (not our current president Hussein) had chem weapons and we know he did, because he used them. Agree with the no threat, though.

    I could put a stop to this shit; I may have mentioned it before. If I did, don’t stop me; I want to hear it again.

    Constitutional amendment: There shall be no commitment of any troops or war materiel without the unanimous vote of Congress. Upon a formal declaration of war by Congress, there shall be a lottery and 10% of Congressmen and Senators shall personally lead the first companies of troops into battle.

    Problem solved.

  • 213. dead rabbit  |  November 23, 2012 at 9:08 pm

    Zero, huh Rutherford. Zero threat. Ok, buddy.

  • 214. dead rabbit  |  November 23, 2012 at 9:09 pm

    Yeah……just every serviceman wants to hear……Nancy Pelosi will be leading you into battle. Listen to her commands.

  • 215. dead rabbit  |  November 23, 2012 at 9:17 pm

    Yeah, that Santa Clause guy represents what used to be our cross town rivals. Lol. Weird shit. But, an eccentric is not comparable to Jesse Jackson Jr. or Kwame Kilpatric or Marion Berry or the non stop criminal circus I’ve watched in Detroit my entire life. Kwame Kilpatric, the once darling prospect of the Democratic Party by the way, would get re-elected if he ran in Detroit.

  • 216. James  |  November 23, 2012 at 9:26 pm

    One problem Pfessor is that if the Congressmen or Senators personally led the first companies to battle, they would die, either at the enemies’ hands or from their own troops. They would be worse than second lieutenants called 90 day wonders.

    I agree black voting is a problem but i don’t know how to fix it.

    My alternative theory for coping with the Arab Spring might not work either. Unforeseen circumstances could create even worse problems, but history shows that for a time, it has succeeded in the past.

    I agree, Iraq had WMD and had used WMD. Most intelligence agencies believed Iraq was ready to use them. Bush may have had a father complex, but as Thomas Friedman wrote repeatedly the strategy was to overthrow Hussein and replace his government with a relative democracy to further pressure conservative Muslim governments.

    I opposed the war when it began because I thought Afghanistan posed the greater risk, and we had not yet subdued that country. Its history of defeating invaders made the war’s conclusion paramont.

    Though I don’t think we had to invade Iraq when we did, though we might have been forced to do so later.

  • 217. James  |  November 23, 2012 at 9:27 pm

    I meant black voting patterns, not black voting. That would be wrong.

  • 218. Rutherford  |  November 24, 2012 at 2:04 am

    Well a couple of things. Bush implied that Saddam had or would have nukes. That was simply not true. Yes he’d used chemical weapons on his own people, but help me on this one. Didn’t we deal with napalm in Vietnam? Did we call it a weapon of mass destruction then? So the whole WMD thing was as much propaganda as anything else. Saddam used chemical weapons, not new to warfare by any means.

    And sorry, Saddam was not ever going to attack the United States. So he was as I said ZERO threat to us. In fact, if I remember the “true” story correctly Bush 41 basically goaded Saddam into invading Kuwait only to turn on him and kick his ass.

    Also wasn’t Iraq at one time our ally against Iran? The history with Iraq is checkered as hell. We wasted tons of money and lots of lives in Iraq. And what do we have to show for it? A dysfunctional “democracy”. Pffft.

  • 219. Rutherford  |  November 24, 2012 at 2:06 am

    I think the whole issue of who blacks vote for is worth a lot of examination. I make a small start at it in the next post awaiting your perusal during your down time this weekend.

  • 220. Rutherford  |  November 24, 2012 at 2:10 am

    R – What can be done to change the opinions of those who dislike America?

    Lurker, that depends on why they dislike us. If it is irrational (which to some extent it is with Muslims) there is not a lot we can do. But when it is a reaction to sticking our nose where it doesn’t belong, then we can take steps to mind our own business and stop policing the world.

  • 221. Rutherford  |  November 24, 2012 at 2:12 am

    Earlier in the thread Alfie has made comments about prior tragedies only taking months to investigate. Might I remind everyone that Stevens was only killed about three months ago. If Congress stops the witch hunt and gets serious about getting at the truth they could be wrapped up by end of January. Politics has a way of slowing sh*t down.

  • 222. Rutherford  |  November 24, 2012 at 2:17 am

    Netanyahu was already far ahead in the polls. The Gaza offensive has boosted his numbers further.

    I’m hearing that Bibi is not sitting so pretty right now and in fact many are pissed at him for implicitly endorsing Romney. They WANT America on their side and don’t appreciate what they perceive as Bibi dissing Obama.

  • 223. Rutherford  |  November 24, 2012 at 2:19 am

    The internet today is our Edward R Murrow.

    The Internet today is BOTH our Edward R. Murrow and our Joseph McCarthy. ;-)

  • 224. Rutherford  |  November 24, 2012 at 2:25 am

    I think there is only one quality worse than hardness of heart and that is softness of head. — Theodore Roosevelt

    No doubt. But there must be balance. Let’s not forget Teddy’s other great quote: “Speak softly and carry a big stick.”

  • 225. Rutherford  |  November 24, 2012 at 2:36 am

    For the record, Marion Barry’s political resurrection always confused the hell outta me. So yes, I will grant you it was not black voter’s finest hour.

  • 226. Noah  |  November 24, 2012 at 3:21 am

    “Well a couple of things. Bush implied that Saddam had or would have nukes. That was simply not true.”

    Faulty intel Rutherford, wake the fuck up.

    Rutherford. Iraq attacked Kuwait. We kicked their ass and sent them packing. Under the terms of their surrender, they had to disarm and submit to weapons inspections. What part of they did not submit to these inspections do you not understand? What part of he kicked the weapons inspectors out do you not understand? What part of they were shooting at our aircraft in southern Iraq don’t you understand? What part of they ignored 3 UN resolutions don’t you understand?

    “Yes he’d used chemical weapons on his own people, but help me on this one. Didn’t we deal with napalm in Vietnam? Did we call it a weapon of mass destruction then?”

    Rutherford, we were at war. Saddam,(I cannot understand to this day why you defend him) gassed 5000 men women and children because they were Kurds. By your reasoning I guess I would be ok to exterminate your ass because your black?

    “And sorry, Saddam was not ever going to attack the United States. So he was as I said ZERO threat to us.”

    Again kiddo, he did all I listed above, we needed no threat to kick his ass, you are defending him because why? That said he supported terrorism. If you were capable of thinking past the end of your nose, you could see the threat he could pose to us.

    “In fact, if I remember the “true” story correctly Bush 41 basically goaded Saddam into invading Kuwait only to turn on him and kick his ass.”

    Proof please. I have never heard this.

    “Also wasn’t Iraq at one time our ally against Iran? The history with Iraq is checkered as hell. We wasted tons of money and lots of lives in Iraq. And what do we have to show for it? A dysfunctional “democracy”. Pffft.”

    I am betting we got more than we are currently getting from your Muslim Messiah supporting his Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas yes?

  • 227. Noah  |  November 24, 2012 at 3:25 am

    Might I remind everyone that Stevens was only killed about three months ago. If Congress stops the witch hunt and gets serious about getting at the truth they could be wrapped up by end of January. Politics has a way of slowing sh*t down.

    Again your ignorance astounds me. Obama does not need an award winning team of investigators to step up to the mic and tell us what he knew and when he knew it. He has chose to hide this. He chose to deep 6 others careers to tell us lies. He made choices for which he has refused to answer for. None of which needs an investigation, only that he be honest.

  • 228. Noah  |  November 24, 2012 at 3:26 am

    “I’m hearing that Bibi is not sitting so pretty right now and in fact many are pissed at him for implicitly endorsing Romney. They WANT America on their side and don’t appreciate what they perceive as Bibi dissing Obama.”

    Links from credible news sources?

  • 229. PFesser  |  November 24, 2012 at 5:18 am

    “Didn’t we deal with napalm in Vietnam? Did we call it a weapon of mass destruction then? So the whole WMD thing was as much propaganda as anything else. Saddam used chemical weapons, not new to warfare by any means.”

    That’s a joke, right? You do know the difference between napalm and poison droplets falling from the sky, I hope.

    Napalm has never been considered a “chemical weapon.” Under that definition, so are conventional bombs, since they depend upon the chemical decomposition of high explosives to do their work.

    Personally, I don’t find a dead man who has been gassed to death to be much more inconvenienced than one blown to bits, but others find the distinction important.

  • 230. poolman  |  November 24, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    Revisionism makes its way into every thread with some of you guys. We did tell Saddam to go ahead into Kuwait and then attacked him and destroyed his military might. We even used false intel to get the globe behind us. That is documented and all completely available for anyone willing to research. Also the gas he used to kill the Kurds way back when was supplied by us.

    Now the ‘democratic’ government is siding with Iran, whereas before, Saddam kept Iran in check. We screwed with the balance of power in the region and came out smelling of shit. No amount of Lysol or false rhetoric will get that smell out.

    The white phosphorus and depleted uranium are the long lasting weapons of mass destruction that we employ. Call it a hazardous environment gotcha, one that keeps on giving years after we have left.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Consumerism took a back seat to Thanksgiving, I must say. Home Depot AND True Value BOTH shuttered for the day. What’s a compulsive handyman to do? Well, it forced me to dig through my stuff and find a dozen new screw bits I had from years ago.

  • 231. Newt or no newt  |  November 24, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    Are you aware the Whig Party is reorganizing?

  • 232. James  |  November 24, 2012 at 5:07 pm

    Bush was merely repeating the general consensus that Iraq still had weapons of mass destruction. Leading Democrats did too.

    I don’t believe “goaded” is accurate. I remember reading that Saddam thought Bush gave implied permission to invade Iraq over an oil drilling dispute. It seems on par with the Hungarians assuming the West would help them after the US leaders issued statements which could be interpreted as an offer of aid…

    Bush 41 also miss spoke after the first Gulf Warm, and mostly Kurds tried to take Hussein out.Many; of them died. Words have meaning.

    We did NOT knowingly use false intel to start the war. We used intellegence information other countries shared with us too. We also “knew” Iraq had them, because he had used the weapons. Hussein’s son in law defected for awhile, He confirmed that Hussein had WMD, but he had dismantled them and hidden the components until a more propitious time. When a nation’s safety is at stake, it is wise to assume the worst.

    We did use Hussein as a counter balance against Iran and we armed Iraq. However before the war. Hussein was beginning to lose his grip. Intellegence officers from the US and other countries worried that Iraq might eventually lapse into disorder as Libya did and organizations like al queada would be able to steal nuclear weapons and gas.

    Iraq also broke several UN resolutions and was shooting at our planes enforcing the no fly zone.

    Iraq is slipping away because Obama is removing troops too soon. That outcome is separate from our earlier war strategy.He doesn’t understand an important feature of war is the occupation.

  • 233. James  |  November 24, 2012 at 5:13 pm

    Newt, if you are referring to “Commonwealth of Virginia-Reorganize!”, I agree with nearly everything Jon Hillis of Leesburg, Va wrote,

  • 234. James  |  November 24, 2012 at 5:25 pm

    Pfessor, the distinction is in the manner of death. Being blown to death is relatively quick and painless, not so for gas.

  • 235. Rutherford  |  November 24, 2012 at 5:37 pm

    Napalm has never been considered a “chemical weapon.”

    Yup, I understand what you’re saying but napalm itself has an effect on the victims that the explosion itself does not … hence the famous picture of the naked Vietnamese girl running down the street with chemical burns on her body.

    I was really making the simple point that “weapons of mass destruction” is a rhetorical device to make certain weapons sound more unusual than they really were … and let’s face it the only WMD that anyone really views as MASS destruction is the nuke. And Saddam did not have nukes.

  • 236. Raji  |  November 24, 2012 at 5:57 pm

    James @233. I agree also with what Jon Hillis wrote

    Commonwealth of Virginia – Reorganize!

    http://www.modernwhig.org/forums/public-discussion/let-me-introduce-myself/commonwealth-virginia-reorganize

  • 237. Zachary  |  November 28, 2012 at 4:11 pm

    Given that an extramarital affair is something that puts a stain on ones personality and overall character, I think it would be safe to say that his flawed love life did not put the United States national security at risk. Granted there were individuals within the FBI that did not care for Petraeus, the threat of national security isn’t something I would be to worried about in this situation. The FBI had known about this affair for several months, their investigation on the matters proved to the general public that no security in regards to our nation had been breached. Am I saying that it isn’t a possibility? No, because anything is possible, I’m saying that from what I have read and heard from high ranking officials including the President himself, national security was not breached. After such an extensive and successful career, the last thing that I feel David Petraeus would want to do is risk the nations security, something he has worked so very hard to keep intact, over a petty biographer. Great post though, I very much enjoyed it. Thank you

  • 238. Rutherford  |  November 28, 2012 at 7:04 pm

    Welcome Zachary and thanks for contributing to the dialog.

  • 239. Rutherford  |  November 28, 2012 at 7:07 pm

    By the way Zachary you’re linking your name to a defunct blog. You’ll want to fix that so it links to The Hot Collar. :-)

  • 240. Zachary  |  November 28, 2012 at 8:13 pm

    Thank you for letting me know. I looked around online for an answer and think that I found a way to fix it.

  • 241. Rutherford  |  November 29, 2012 at 1:57 am

    You did indeed.

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