The Hypocrisy of Disney

June 14, 2012 at 12:44 pm 990 comments

Recently the kids entertainment behemoth Disney announced that effective 2015 they will no longer allow advertisements for junk food on their television and radio networks. At first blush this may seem laudable. Impressionable youngsters see the ads and beg their parents for Count Chocula cereal and a host of other worthless edibles. The Christian Science Monitor, however took issue with the ban because concurrent with the ban will be a new branding campaign whereby certain foods will carry an image of Mickey Mouse as an indication of healthfulness. In the words of The Monitor, Disney will essentially be getting into the branding health business. Lots of “good foods” might come along with what amounts to a commercial for Disney. So now instead of kids watching “Wizards of Waverly Place” and asking for junk food because of the commercials, they will see a pile of apples at the supermarket and ask to watch Disney because they see Mickey’s picture on the fruit.

While I understand The Monitor’s concern with what looks like a cynical advertising play, I have a deeper concern. Because I have an eight year old daughter, I’ve watched way more of the Disney Channel than any grown man should have to. With the exception of a handful of shows such as “Good Luck Charlie”, most Disney channel live action shows depict a world inhabited by wise cracking disrespectful preteens and teens who amazingly have no adults in their lives. In those few scenes where adults appear, they are depicted as either cruel or utterly stupid. What has always galled me is that the smart-ass dialog spoken by these kids wasn’t written by kids but by adult writers who think kids like to see other kids be obnoxious. Of the dozens of characters on these shows, I could probably count on one hand the ones I would want my daughter to emulate. What further unnerved me was that I always associated Disney with wholesome entertainment so it took me aback to see preteens shaking their asses to Disney’s lame version of rap music.

For Disney to make a big deal out of influencing what kids eat when they don’t give a damn about the role models they put in these kids minds strikes me as the height of hypocrisy. Disney needs to focus on the content in between the commercials.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

Image by Pigby (Own work) [CC-BY-SA-3.0], via Wikimedia Commons

WordPress.com Political Blogger Alliance

Entry filed under: Social commentary, Wordpress Political Blogs. Tags: , , , , .

Is Stupid Stuff Deadline Driven? It’s Beginning to Look A Lot Like Nixon

990 Comments Add your own

  • 1. poolman  |  June 14, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    The magical kingdom of Walt Disney. :roll: I don’t have the time today to get started down THAT path…

  • 2. Tex Taylor  |  June 14, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    Well, I suspect this is one thread where you are going to get a lot of agreement. Short of GE, I can’t think of a more hypocritical, pretentious company on the entire planet marketing themselves as something they are not.

    As far as I’m concerned, I’ve made my last trip to Disney World. Family entertainment, my ass.

    This is not Walt Disney’s company anymore that you and I enjoyed as children, Mr. Rutherford – as you obviously understand even better than I do.

    And I suppose Disney is going to sell their overpriced “apples” at the themes park too, hey? And bring in all the supremely “healthy” food for all the children? Yeah, we will see how that goes over with the masses.

    Tell you this much. There’s a theme park in Branson called Silver Dollar City that I’m not sure I don’t think better than Disneyworld. We spent a couple of days over there with my two grown daughters last week, and had more fun there than we ever did at Disneyworld. If they would control the billboard crap (overkill), the state is a hell of a lot prettier than Florida or Anaheim.

    Uncrowded and well managed, enough kick ass roller coasters for the fastest crowd, clean, the grounds beautiful with flower arrangements and native plants everywhere – the crafts including the glass blowing are fascinating, our passes about $55.00 a piece for 2 day. And the food was the most fattening shit on earth. I’m not going to a theme park to eat apples that aren’t covered in caramels and pecans or some gooey dress up.

    P.S. to Alfie – saw your comment about firefighters over on the other thread. Used to be a group I admired greatly – still do the volunteers. But Tulsa’s Firefighter’s union, like the police, like the teachers, like like like…got political and chose Dimocrat. Bad choice, firefighters in Tulsa, OK. :smile: Got cut down to size quickly.

    Haven’t heard much in 2-3 years.

  • 3. Rutherford  |  June 14, 2012 at 3:12 pm

    Uncrowded

    Yeah that is key. The crowds alone make me not want to go to these places.

  • 4. poolman  |  June 14, 2012 at 3:35 pm

    The Wonderful World of Disney Amerika, aka The American Dream.

  • 5. Rutherford  |  June 14, 2012 at 3:35 pm

    Rutherford, “Reawakening the Radical Imagination:The Origins of Occupy Wall Street, Conservipedia, and other sources tell a story different from yours.

    This is from James from the previous thread. James, Conservapedia? Really? I just looked at that site and it is the very definition of right wing propaganda.

    I will give you this. Whatever the motives of the core founders of the movement, many of the folks who joined Occupy in the early days were sincere about immoral wealth distribution within our country. Perhaps they were pawns of a more devious bunch of founders? I can’t swear otherwise. But to dismiss OWS as a meaningless venture is simply a misread of history.

    P.S. Yes, I am the first one to go officially off topic on this thread. Go figure.

  • 6. an800lbgorilla  |  June 14, 2012 at 4:03 pm

    R, do you think you could provide an objective description of what a Conservative is?

  • 7. dead rabbit  |  June 14, 2012 at 4:31 pm

    Those shows are very strange. I know the ones Rutherford is talking about. I get a weird vibe from some of the undertones.

    My brother’s brother in law is a grown man who collects Disney shit. Can you believe that? He wears Micky Mouse shirts and shit. My brother said he couldn’t talk to him from the moment he learned that about him. A couple of my asshole brothers ripped on that guy so bad at the bachelors party my brother’s wofe got wind of it.

    My wife got arrested at Disney World for shop lifting when she was an early teen. They threw her and her friend in a massive underground prison at Disney. She claims weirdos came down their and told her how upset she made Mickey. My wife says her friend (who today is a cop) “Fuck Mickey”!

  • 8. dead rabbit  |  June 14, 2012 at 4:40 pm

    Ok. I throw in the towel. I’m buying a computer. I can’t see what I’m typing as soon Im balls deep into a rant.

  • 9. dead rabbit  |  June 14, 2012 at 4:46 pm

    Conservapedia. That cracked me up. That being said, any one with an ounce of street smarts knew who the OWS protesters were. Of course, as per usual, MSNBC made Rutherford look like a total MORON when he followed their narrative of the protest.

  • 10. poolman  |  June 14, 2012 at 6:19 pm

    Conservapedia? Really? I just looked at that site and it is the very definition of right wing propaganda.

    They have written their own Bible version, too. The NT was WAY too liberal for them. :lol:

    But to dismiss OWS as a meaningless venture is simply a misread of history.

    Far from meaningless. Far from over. The movement may not be cluttering up the public streets, but it is actually growing, albeit underground. The resistance to OWS by the 1 percenters has been pretty intense, often brutal, with many arrests and denials of citizen rights. They have tried unsuccessfully to ‘send a message’ to protesters.

    Massive money and propaganda has been put out to shut down the movement and the message.

    This is very unlike TP Lite movement where a lot of money went in to co-opt and promote it.

    But no, don’t be delusional, the movement hasn’t fizzled…

  • 11. an800lbgorilla  |  June 14, 2012 at 7:21 pm

    Ooooooo, the Mayan date of doom! I’m so glad that these guys are original in what they do. I mean, it’s not like they stole a date, a look, and act or an idea. Clearly a “fresh” look at things.

    Yup, nothing astro about these cats. Nope, those Union buses belong to someone else, nothing to see here.

    But we knew they’d be up the piss pots lane. Hell, have you found an anti-Semitic bunch he didn’t like? You want comedy, look at his little Syrian conspiracy link which is full of “sources”, like al-Manar and SANA. You know, SANA (Syrian Arab News Agency) and al-Manar (Hezbollah’s propaganda arm). Surely they would have, dare I say it, a fair and balanced view on the violence going on in Syria. They wouldn’t have an agenda at all, of course not.

    And those poor, misunderstood Syrian protesters. I mean, clearly the al-Nusrah Front is just misunderstood. It’s only a coincidence that it is SUNNI and attacking SHIA and espousing Salafist ideology consistent with al-Qaeda. Tisk, tisk, tisk, I almost forgot, al-Qaeda doesn’t exist. It is merely a figment of all our collective imaginations.

    My, my, my, it amazes me how you are able to link and espouse SO many racist websites and positions and never once have R question you, chastise you, hell, just acknowledge that you are in fact a racist. An ignorant racist at that, but then again, all racists are ignorant, now aren’t they.

    You can have your racist OWS. Enjoy your criminal enterprises like Anonymous and the Anarchists in general. They say far more about who you are then you’ll ever know.

    P.S. Fuck you.

  • 13. thorsaurus  |  June 14, 2012 at 7:37 pm

    I’m wearing a “Goofy” shirt right now. It says, “What you don’t know, you don’t know.” Hey, that’s where Rumsfeld got it. ;)

    Bow Wow Wow’s take:

  • 14. Tex Taylor  |  June 14, 2012 at 8:13 pm

    Well, I have to admit to Rutherford – and this is the truth. I’m wearing a sweaty “Grumpy” tank top that I use to mow the lawn and paint. :grin:

    But I wiped my dirty face on it to spite them, “R”.

    My baby daughter saw it on me last week while mowing the lawn (my kids bought it for me back in 1999, I think) and exclaimed, “I can’t believe you’ve still got that, Dad!!!”

  • 15. poolman  |  June 14, 2012 at 8:15 pm

    I know I’m doing good when I get the apes rattling their cages. :wink:

    Damn soulless media playing out the Sandusky trial. This is a SICK fucking country. And that’s not the ‘cool’ sick, or the cool fuck.

    Yeah Magilla, defend that shit. Tool.

  • 16. Raji  |  June 14, 2012 at 8:29 pm

    I’m not going to a theme park to eat apples that aren’t covered in caramels and pecans or some gooey dress up.-Tex

    OMG, Tex and I finally agree on something :-)

    I do have to agree with you R on this post. The Disney image in my opinion regarding tweens and teens was over the edge on Hanna Montana. Be happy your daughter won’t have that image to emulate but I’m sure there will be others.

    Disney is capitalism at it’s best. Which is better, Kellog and frosted flakes or Disney with Mickey apples? Once we start taxing sugar that apple might be cheaper then the cereal. Of course the tax on sugar (obesity) is missing the point as it should be a tax on HFCS (high fructose corn syrup) where in lies the culprit not the sugar industry. The corn industry has more lobbyists than the sugar industry. Welcome to prohibition.

  • 17. Tex Taylor  |  June 14, 2012 at 8:47 pm

    OMG, Tex and I finally agree on something.

    {Gives pause}. Well, I reconsider then. :twisted: I’m going back to Silver Dollar City to eat a healthy apple upon entry, and maybe some tofu.

    “R”, before I had ridden my first roller coaster last week, I had eaten an apple turnover, a cinnamon apple fritter, and a handful of saltwater taffy my wife bought. Hell, I had already eaten two waffles bathed in walnuts, strawberries and syrup at the hotel. That was in first 30 minutes. :lol:

    My wife had blue lips from the taffy which I teased her about unmercifully about while we waited in line, while she noted it looked like somebody had rubbed a honey bun on my face from the fritter. True love.

    Then lunch consisted of more salt water taffy, a turkey leg, and cinnamon bread. :lol: You can see what I think theme parks are really for.

    I got back to the hotel room and felt like Violet Beauregarde when she turned into a blueberry. And her comes my wife and kids with dinner as I laid down on the bed.

    Pizza!

    Barf….

    Then I repeated the process the next day. My system is still screwed up.

  • 18. an800lbgorilla  |  June 14, 2012 at 9:11 pm

    Defend what? I’m not buying into either fucking side. I say, stay the fuck out and let them figure it out. But I’m certainly not stupid enough to think that Syria or Hezbollah are the “good” guys in this, nor do I believe this is about Israel. It’s not, it’s all about the Syrian people and the their government. Morons who want to get involved (Hillary, Obama, McCain) are just that, morons. Liars who want to make this about something else or promote idiots like Anonymous, like you, are just that liars.

    You’re clearly one of the dumbest motherfuckers to ever take up oxygen, and are a complete fucking waste of flesh.

    By the way, did I mention Fuck you?

  • 19. poolman  |  June 14, 2012 at 9:20 pm

    No, you’re not buying, you’re selling one particular side. But I’m certain you’re right at home on this planet of the apes…

  • 20. an800lbgorilla  |  June 14, 2012 at 9:33 pm

    What side am I selling?

  • 21. poolman  |  June 14, 2012 at 10:10 pm

    Read the bottom of your script. (Or have someone read it to you if you’re not advanced to that level yet.) It’s the one that says,

    ‘I’m Uncle Sam and I approve this propaganda message.”

  • 22. El Tigre  |  June 14, 2012 at 10:31 pm

    Wow. I was really inspired by Obama’s speech. :roll:

    Now that the press is criticizing him personally, he’s definitely in trouble.

    Suck.

    On.

    That.

    Bwahahahahahahahah!

  • 23. dead rabbit  |  June 14, 2012 at 10:33 pm

    There is nothing worse then a perpetual slanderer except maybe a slanderer who thinks he is courageously doing Jesus’ work. Little fuck wad gets the red carpet rolled out for him on this blog too.

    Poolman, does your wife take part in your hurtful tabloid lies or does she merely laugh at you like Rutherford does.

  • 24. dead rabbit  |  June 14, 2012 at 10:47 pm

    If find Anonymous to be interesting. Its a guilty pleasure of mine to keep tabs on what they are up to. I don’t condone them in any shape or form. And 90 percent is hype anyways. I guess I’m blown away that we live in a sci fi type world where groups like them can even exist.

  • 25. poolman  |  June 14, 2012 at 10:49 pm

    She actually thinks I am wasting my time trying to educate you guys. No one ever addresses the questions I raise, just gives me shit. She thinks you are idiots, and “not worth the powder and lead…”

    But then, I’m the patient and ever optimistic one. :wink:

    No one attempted the Operation Northwoods discussion. Chicken shits.

  • 26. dead rabbit  |  June 14, 2012 at 11:29 pm

    “Educate us”. I can just imagine you lecturing the Thanksgiving dinner table and the family thinking you are a deep thinker. A man’s home really is his castle. God Bless America.

  • 27. poolman  |  June 14, 2012 at 11:45 pm

    Thanksgiving is a fraud too. What we learn in school is total bullshit. Some will never learn, because they don’t want to be responsible. It doesn’t matter how in their face the truth is presented. They’ll still tell you two commercial jets can take out 3 modern steel skyscrapers in 9 hours. Never happened before ever, but then they’ll claim they don’t believe in miracles. Unless Disney produces it, or because they saw it on TV. :roll: Like the TV is some truth-telling god.

    We never listen to those trying to wake us up, if it takes us out of our comfort zone. We rather say, they’re crazy. A conspiracy nut. A loon. Like this patriot. He knows what this republic should look like.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2012/06/13/jesse-ventura-explains-why-governments-are-like-gangs/

  • 28. dead rabbit  |  June 14, 2012 at 11:59 pm

    I don’t think of you as a loon. I see you first amd foremost as a pussy. If I believed the things you do, I’d be doing more then anonymously posting links amd waxing on how indebted you are to planned parenthood.

    I forgot. You can’t do anything because your a “Christian” and that means you can’t fight for country amd family. So you post scripture now and then while you spread filthy falsehoods. Your shit is not cutting edge. It boils down to the same old ignorance that as plagued the West for a thousand years: The kikes run the world through deciet and black magic.

  • 29. poolman  |  June 15, 2012 at 12:14 am

    Well rabbit, you don’t really know what being a “Christian” is supposed to look like. I can forgive you that. If you knew, or claimed to know, then there would no excuse. Maybe try picking up a NT and read Acts Chapters 6 and 7.

    That’s your homework assignment. Study good. there might be a pop quiz.

  • 30. dead rabbit  |  June 15, 2012 at 12:40 am

    I guess one down side to no longer having a universal church is we can no longer excomunicate shads like you…or better yet barbeque.

  • 31. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 12:47 am

    Rutherford, then why is it last I checked some -8 months ago they had over 300 FELONY arrests?

    From the prior thread from Noah.

    Noah, who is “they”? OWS had bad actors. Nobody is denying that. They don’t define the movement. Just as the dude calling Obama a “lyin’ African” didn’t define the Tea Party …. or did he? ;-)

  • 32. Tex Taylor  |  June 15, 2012 at 12:49 am

    Poolman, I am almost sure you suffer from negativistic passive-aggressive sadistic syndrome. You’re resentful of anything good, always siding with evil.

    You need to seek professional help. I am trying to give you good advice which I can virtually guarantee you’ll ignore.

    This Syria thing is a new low. There are babies being slaughtered by rabid animals – and you’re trying to score some warped points with your continual machinations and complaints of being misunderstood, unappreciated, and victimized by others.

    Consider:
    * angry and pessimistic attitudes toward a variety of events;
    * unreasonable criticism and scorn toward those in authority;
    * envy and resentment toward those who are more fortunate;
    * oppositional behavior

    Throw in this passive aggressive passivity you practice, and the symptoms couldn’t be more pronounced and obvious.

    Somebody has traumatized you someplace big time.

  • 33. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 12:54 am

    Hey Thor, the video description says Bow Wow Wow was created by Malcolm McLaren. Wasn’t he behind the Sex Pistols too?

  • 34. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 12:59 am

    Damn soulless media playing out the Sandusky trial.

    Interestingly Poolman, to hear Chris Matthews talk about it, he considers it a public service to not only cover the trial but cover it graphically. He says too often we sugar-coat these crimes and the public doesn’t really know how horrible they are. He may have a point.

    On a related note, the other day on Hardball, the topic came up of whether or not Sandusky could plea bargain his way to a sentence at a country club prison where he wouldn’t be killed by his fellow inmates. The answer was that prison assignments can’t be determined in such a way that they could be part of a plea bargain.

    Calling Tigre … are you out there? Can you verify?

  • 35. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 1:05 am

    The Disney image in my opinion regarding tweens and teens was over the edge on Hanna Montana.

    Raji, you read my mind. Hanna Montana has been the only “kid’s show” that I have banned in my house. The kid has never been allowed to watch it. First of all, I find the father/daughter relationship creepy. He’s more of a friend than a father. Second, Miley Cyrus’ personal conduct (she wants SO badly to be a bad girl) poisoned the show for me.

    I keep my eye on the other Disney shows she watches and I make editorial comments when needed.

    Now this may sound contradictory but she’s just discovered the Simpsons and I have a ball watching it with her. She doesn’t get the adult jokes but loves Homer. “He’s an idiot” she told me the other day. :-)

  • 36. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 1:08 am

    Tex, how in the name of all that is holy did you ride a coaster with all that crap in your stomach? You’ve got a stronger constitution than I.

  • 37. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 1:18 am

    They’ll still tell you two commercial jets can take out 3 modern steel skyscrapers in 9 hours. Never happened before ever,

    Well Poolman haven’t you kinda hit upon the absurdity of the conspiracy theory with that very statement? Can anyone document for me an instance in history where two commercial jets struck a skyscraper? Has it happened before and have the buildings survived the hit?

    I know small planes have hit skyscrapers but huge commercial jets? If it’s never happened before Poolman, then why on Earth would we know what the effect would be?

    The only thing that gives me the slightest sympathy for the skeptics is the fact that the way the towers fell LOOKED like a demolition. But I don’t know enough about building structural physics to claim that is all that unusual.

  • 38. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 1:38 am

    Waaaay off topic — first visit to the vet since we moved here almost a year ago. Back in Middlebury these visits were routine. Ollie would get whatever shot was coming to him. I’d get a small lecture about his being fat and then we’d go on our way.

    Not this time. First I’m told he probably has gingivitis. So we now have to brush his teeth a few times a week. (I’m thinking — you’ve GOT to be shittin’ me!) Then they take him off to get a blood sample and next thing you know they tell me he has fleas. Now I’m thinking in full cynical mode those dudes have a f*cking jar of fleas back there which they plant on the animal so they can sucker me into buying expensive flea treatments. I also get warned about heart worm and two other kind of worms, one of which is communicable to humans and cause blindness or death. So of course, the flea treatment handles the worms too. Those set me back $20.00 a month. Finally, because his gums don’t look good and he’s got plaque up the wazoo, we get talked into having him get a full dental treatment next week to the tune of over $300.00 because they have to put him out to do it.

    Today alone cost me $450.00. And yes … I actually broke down and bought a friggin health insurance policy for him so if he gets anything CATastrophic we won’t have to put him down for financial reasons. And you want to know the damnedest thing? His policy does not discriminate for pre-existing conditions. I kid you not. My f*cking feline friend gets better health insurance than I do. And you guys don’t think we need health insurance reform. Pffft.

    I love my cat second only to my wife and daughter but damn … he’s getting old, he’s obese and he’s getting expensive. I think the solution is to have the vet put me down so the family has more resources to spend on the cat. :neutral:

  • 39. Tex Taylor  |  June 15, 2012 at 1:41 am

    It was a rough go after the turkey leg. About the only time I have ever gotten nauseous on a coaster. I took a break.

    Rutherford, the fall looking like a demolition is easy to explain. Thousands of gallons of fuel weakened the upper beams. The support collapsed. When that happened, each floor pancaked one on top of the other. Each floor is self supporting. When you stack twice the weight, three times the weight, four times the weight, etc…the collapse was imminent.

    Pretty self explanatory. Don’t have to be a structural engineer to understand the concept.

  • 40. Tex Taylor  |  June 15, 2012 at 1:43 am

    I think you’ll find that pet insurance isn’t worth a crap, Rutherford. That was my experience…

  • 41. Tex Taylor  |  June 15, 2012 at 8:14 am

    What the leftist media in America won’t do…can you deny this, Rutherford? Had this been a Republican, would MSNBC not mention while interviewed? You’re always talking about FOX not being credible. Remember? Well, I say not only is MSNBC not credible, they’re willingly dishonest.

    Elizabeth Warren’s ‘Native American’ claims: if she was a Republican, the media would call her a racist

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100165458/elizabeth-warrens-native-american-claims-if-she-was-a-republican-the-media-would-call-her-a-racist/

  • 42. Tex Taylor  |  June 15, 2012 at 8:24 am

    Can you imagine the howls from leftists like Rutherford and Thor had Laura Bush ever made a request similar to this? Any Republican, for that matter asking for something like this? These groupies and toe suckers with their lotteries, and merchandise and campaign gimmicks are creeping me out.

    Rutherford, I hope you find things like this an embarrassment. I promise you were the shoe on the other foot, I would be.

    The Cult of Obama is still alive and well.

    Cult of the Presidency: First Lady Asks America to Wish Barack Obama a Happy Father’s Day

    http://www.barackobama.com/om-fathers-day-card?source=om2012_LB_G_fathersday-search_core_fd4&utm_medium=om2012&utm_source=G&utm_campaign=LB_fathersday-search&utm_content=fd4&subsource=kw|obama%20fathers%20day|matchtype|p|pcrid|11780248604|pl|&gclid=CJLO1sWd0LACFQdeTAodIRDnYA

  • 43. Tex Taylor  |  June 15, 2012 at 8:30 am

    Remember the salad days of Barack Obama, when he won a Nobel Peace Prize? What was that? Twelve days into his Presidency?

    Of course, it only documented what most of us have known for years. The Nobel is about as legitimate an honor as the Sarah Jessica Parker fundraiser.

    Democratic Website Publishes List of Obama Accomplishments, Half of Them Are the Names of People He’s Killed

    Because the studio audience needs to know when to clap, the Democratic Hub, a forum for the “Advanced Liberal Political Community,” keeps a running tab of President Obama’s accomplishments.

    http://reason.com/blog/2012/06/12/democrat-website-publishes-list-of-obama

  • 44. nagic  |  June 15, 2012 at 8:37 am

    Rutherford, then why is it last I checked some -8 months ago they had over 300 FELONY arrests?

    From the prior thread from Noah.

    Noah, who is “they”? OWS had bad actors. Nobody is denying that. They don’t define the movement. Just as the dude calling Obama a “lyin’ African” didn’t define the Tea Party …. or did he? ;-)

    Really? Who are they. I was not aware I needed to restate the premise of my post at each question to keep you up to speed. Ok so here we go……

    I stated…..
    The only thing OWS changed was the rape and murder rates in the cities they occupied.

    Sorry, no other way to describe this than rank stupidity.

    So now that we are up to speed again. There have been, as of 8 months ago, over 300 FELONY convictions at OWS events by people at the OWS events, involved with the OWS events.

    So then now that we have determined this fact(I can document it if you feel I am in error) explain to me how my statement is rank stupidity when it is factually accurate.

  • 45. Tex Taylor  |  June 15, 2012 at 8:40 am

    Rutherford, I’ve been watching your tweets, now that you’ve become a fan of Jeb Bush – though I don’t remember you being much of a fan four years ago. It’s a pattern of yours. Kathleen Parker, David Frum, etc…

    I like Jeb Bush. But his argument here is utterly destroyed, if interested. That may have held for his old man. But Ronald Reagan would have been the perfect candidate to lead the Tea Party – namely smaller gov’t. Have we forgotten, “I’m from the government, and I’m here to help?” :wink:

    Just wanted you to know, the RINO stuff is still baloney and losing proposition. Frankly, though the Bush family has never been anything about class in public measures, beloved in Texas as model citizens, there time for the Republican version of Camelot is over.

    http://spectator.org/archives/2012/06/14/not-so-fast-jeb-bush/

  • 46. Tex Taylor  |  June 15, 2012 at 8:41 am

    Pffft..their time.

  • 47. James  |  June 15, 2012 at 9:06 am

    Rutherford, I thought about that Conservopedia link, but we had a storm approaching, and I had lost a Reuters link. I used it anyway on the grounds that if liberals can cite MSNBC and other biased sources, I can use some from the other side. It also says basically the same thing as the Reuters link. Now, you know how I feel when you and other liberals plus Poolman share where you get some of your information.

    The point is OWS was never what it seemed, and the sincere folks who joined in the early days were well-meaning dupes used to portray a false image for PR reasons. It was the same with the anti- war protests in Chicago during the Democratic convention. Many of the protesters were shocked when it turned violent. I was in England at the time, when the BBC interviewed about ten organizers. Their intent was to foment violence so the police would over react. They didn’t share that information with the average protester.

    Yes, it was a meaningless venture because the good willcame from the liberal press’s narrative. Had the OWS people been more careful to portray themselves as main stream, the movement would have gained resonance. Rich people who tried to portray themselves as part of the underclass revealed their hyprocicy. Organizers should have read Rules for Radicals.

    My opinion is confirmed by the general negative view the average person has of OWS and the scarcity of serious 1% talk now. Many of the 99% want to join, not destroy the 1%.

    10, Poolman, the Weathermen also gained strength as they grew underground. I expect the OWS movement, if it survives will resort to even more violence than it has so far.

  • 48. dead rabbit  |  June 15, 2012 at 9:10 am

    Nagic, the syringes, rapes, fights, abandoned babies, drugs, thefts, public masturbation and hundreds upon hundreds of arrests shouldn’t define OWS because that one guy at a Tea Party said some weird stuff. Come on man.

  • 49. James  |  June 15, 2012 at 9:16 am

    Rutherford, your $450 or so expenditure including a tooth brush for a pet sounds like our daughter and son-law. They dress their dog in costumes and with their friends, take her trick or treating. They need a kid.

    The television station where our son-in law works gave the staff a trip to Disney world. They liked it and learned how to avoid the longest lines which required long waits. Our daughter told us we should go, but it doesn’t interests us. I miss the old Walt Disney company,

    Disney Europe presents the local culture. One park in France, I think sells five veriaties of sausage. Isn’t that more unhealthy than sugar-decorated apples?

  • 50. James  |  June 15, 2012 at 9:20 am

    The Tea Party presented their message through persuasion. OWS presented their message through intimidation.

  • 51. PFesser  |  June 15, 2012 at 9:30 am

    re: WTC crashes.

    There are two factors that affect energy imparted to the Towers: weight AND airspeed, and energy goes as proportional to the weight, but the speed SQUARED. (E = 1/2 mV^2) My understanding is that the first plane hit about 500 knots and the second about 600. Estimated weight about 275,000#, or about 140 tons. It is very instructive to see the “rocket sled” episode of MythBusters. At those speeds there would be nothing left but shreds of metal.

    Armchair critics can apply their “common sense” all day, but they have no concept – or experience – with impacts at such a weight and speed. It baffles me how the buildings stood as long as they did.

  • 52. nagic  |  June 15, 2012 at 9:47 am

    Point well made Rabbit. I stand corrected.

  • 53. Tex Taylor  |  June 15, 2012 at 10:06 am

    Pfesser, I’m almost ashamed to have to provide this link to another man of science, as the only one insane enough on this board to believe 9/11 a conspiracy wouldn’t understand it. I guess coming from the opposite side, believing government pretty much a loose association of dumb bureaucrats that can’t even execute a tax code, much less murder 3,000 in secret, I can’t even muster the strength to argue with idiocy. Somebody in the Obama Administration is leaking national security secrets to the NYT as we speak, and yet George Bush and the Mossad were able to pull off a controlled demolition, making it appear that two massive jets full of fuel brought down two towers.

    I used to laugh at these folks. But when one conspiracy leads to other conspiracies, finally concluding in their world of certifiable insanity, that America and Israel are responsible for the death of Syrian babies and not Assad and his henchmen, I think this slander has gone on about long enough.

    This is not for you, but Gorilla provided a wonderful link this morning of some length with the facts, while mocking the ‘Troofer’ type for good measure, if interested.

    With this thrown in for good measure – only I wouldn’t refer to them as “lonely” Christians. I would have referred to them as lunatics labeling themselves as Christians to advance an argument. That’s the part that is most offensive to me.

    Truther sites are to conspiracy thinkers what televangelists are to lonely Christians: a place to send money to buy a feeling of participation and fulfillment.

    http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/pseudosc/911nutphysics.htm

  • 54. dead rabbit  |  June 15, 2012 at 10:18 am

    The vet scam is legendary. I remember a vet trying to sell me this monthly vitamin E supplement program for 40 bucks a month. I laughed after her pitch and told her if that dog really needs vitamin E for 40 bucks a month, put him down. Shr didn’t get my humor.

  • 55. poolman  |  June 15, 2012 at 10:19 am

    It baffles me how the buildings stood as long as they did.

    Are you familiar with the Empire State building being slammed into by a plane? Interesting read. Not as large as these jets, but then the building is smaller, and older, and not designed with commercial jet impacts in mind, as the WTC towers were.

    There are other steel skyscrapers on record that have burned for days and still stood. Steel buildings do not disintegrate. Never have, unless they use explosives to bring them down.

    Your homework assignment is WTC 7. Some points to ponder… no plane, fires had burned out, explosions documented, countdown heard over fireman’s radio, NIST admissions, etc., etc., etc…

    Happy hunting, PFesser. :grin:

  • 56. poolman  |  June 15, 2012 at 10:35 am

    The Tea Party presented their message through persuasion. OWS presented their message through intimidation.

    :lol: James, I love you (in a manly sort of way), but that is total BS.

    The tea party sported people publicly wearing firearms. OWS has not. OWS is mainly peaceful gatherings and protest. They were pepper-sprayed, clubbed, gassed, rubber-bulleted, kicked, and intimidated.

  • 57. El Tigre  |  June 15, 2012 at 10:49 am

    Poolman, like Rutherford, obviously never actually visited the OWS holes I’m guessing. Lawless derelicts, dregs, hygiene challenged morons. No comparison with the most boisterous Tea Party members by any measure. Victims of oppressive law enforcement my ass. The operated like Lord of the Flies.

  • 58. poolman  |  June 15, 2012 at 10:53 am

    Some sources to consider for the truth out of Syria. The first is a Greek Orthodox publication that has been around since 1927.

    http://www.fides.org/aree/news/newsdet.php?idnews=31658&lan=eng

    http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1-/11853-unwrapping-houla-bbc-backs-off-initial-reports-german-faz-points-to-false-flag.html

    And finally, since 3 links is all I can post without going to moderation, this account from Peter Hitchens…

    I have been contacted by a group of Western women who live in Syria and who believe that most of what the world is being told about that country is false.
    As far as I can discover, they are not stooges of what they agree to be a rather nasty government in Damascus, but exactly what they say they are: normal human beings caught up in a political tornado. For obvious reasons, I have promised to protect their identities.
    I urge you to read what follows, because it is important, because our emotional interventions in other countries never do any good, and because it is vital that people resist attempts to drag us into Syria, too, by feeding us one-sided atrocity propaganda.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2156929/PETER-HITCHENS-Pop-goes-Monarchy-The-Queen-listened-Paul-McCartney–I-heard-end-Royal-Family.html#ixzz1xsEZ1Ab1

  • 59. Tex Taylor  |  June 15, 2012 at 10:58 am

    but then the building is smaller, and older, and not designed with commercial jet impacts in mind, as the WTC towers were.

    You mean a smaller, older piece of granite? The Empire State Building is the Pentagon of skyscrapers. Obviously, you have never been to the Empire State building, nor do have any idea what potential or kinetic energy means.

    You have a rudimentary understanding of gravity because of your block head and lead ass.

    An office building building in Austin, TX, housing was recently slammed into by a Cessna. It didn’t collapse either. There was not enough fuel to weaken the support, nor enough potential energy to collapse the building. It blew out a few windows and killed a few agents at impact.

    Besides, it wasn’t the initial kinetic energy (the planes striking the building) that collapsed the towers, Poolman. I doubt a jumbo jet slamming in the Empire State Building would immediately collapse the building either. In fact, there would be little left of the plane and the end result would have appeared much different.

    It’s very possible had the planes hit the very top floors of the tower, the buildings may not have collapsed for quite some time. And if you understood physics and potential energy, it makes perfect sense why the second tower hit was the first to fall.

    Poolman, your scientific knowledge especially of physics, especially energy and statics and strengths, is truly on the fungal scale.

  • 60. eltigre100  |  June 15, 2012 at 10:58 am

    R, I have no idea if you can plea bargain for your place of confinement. I kind of doubt it for the most obvious of reasons. Policy I’m sure wouldn’t permit a mechanism to establish preferable confinement for those that plea versus those convicted. But I don’t know that to be true or untrue. You’d have to ask a criminal defense lawyer and I’m not willing to bother.

    Now how about that Zimmerman controversy? Oh yeah, the liberal agitators already got what they wanted out of it. As usual, they left their path of destruction and will be looking for something else.

    And that inspirational speech from Obama last night? Hmmm. Message ain’t gonna work will it. Well, unless you, Thor Bubbles keep carrying it! :lol:

  • 61. poolman  |  June 15, 2012 at 10:59 am

    Tigre, the only ‘OWS holes’ I have seen first hand were here in Phoenix. These were not as you describe them.

    But I did see what the media was showing us. I also understand the purpose of our media.

    And yes, all the dregs of the earth joined the OWS movement. No doubt. It was the only one that accepted them. OWS is inclusive, not exclusive, as other movements have been. It doesn’t remove the weak links within. But by focusing on those weak links, one misses the stronger underlying bonds.

  • 62. eltigre100  |  June 15, 2012 at 11:04 am

    Yeah Poolman, Phoenix I’m sure was really represnetative. The way the typical OWS members all loaded on buses and traveled to Phoenix. :lol:

    I saw the real deal. Those were not “weak links.” It was as reported. My most liberal of acquaintances were shaking their heads with the positive media treatment.

    Tell us all about those strong bonds Poolman. Think they’ll have a re-union party some day?

  • 63. poolman  |  June 15, 2012 at 11:06 am

    Tex,

    You are still thinking they are using a pancake theory to explain what happened to the towers. If you actually were up to speed (no pun intended), NIST discarded that theory early in their research. It didn’t pan out.

    But their research was hindered, as their report even states. They were specifically told to rule out any explosives and limit their testing to the jet fuel/impact scenerios.

    It’s all there in their reports.

  • 64. poolman  |  June 15, 2012 at 11:22 am

    The strong bonds that exist are the desire for justice and truth, which doesn’t usually place one in comfort, often just the opposite.

  • 65. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 11:31 am

    Elizabeth Warren’s ‘Native American’ claims

    Well I know it burns Noah’s ass when I pull one comment from an article and criticize it when it isn’t the main thrust of the article, but tough titty.

    Tex, the Telegraph article you posted called Scott Brown a Tea Party candidate. In fact, nothing could be further from the truth. He actively distanced himself from TPM while running and his legislative record is a moderate one.

    As for the crux of the article, I really need to research this. I have seen Warren in countless interviews and never once has she volunteered any information about being of Native American heritage. That’s why I’ve basically been ignoring all the chatter coming from this board on the subject. If she made some bogus claims to get into college/law school that is definitely worth some investigation but it’s hardly a huge scandal. It’s on a par with Romney bullying a gay kid in college and Obama’s publisher making him look more exotic by claiming he was BORN in Kenya. It’s all old news and kinda silly when compared to the issues we should be talking about.

    Now I’ve actually got a much better indictment of Chris Matthews on the RL Blog publishing docket. Maybe I’ll write it later today.

  • 66. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 11:41 am

    LOL I did get a kick out of seeing Michelle’s appeal for us to wish Barack a Happy Father’s Day. I get notes like this all the time, I chuckle, delete, and move on.

    Just this morning I was saying to my better half how absurd it is that we are being enticed to essentially enter a lottery to win time with the POTUS. This idea would never have gotten off the drawing board 15 years ago.

    Want some contrast? The other day I attended a webinar hosted by a Swiss Project Manager and he remarked that just days before he stood at a bus stop standing next to the President of Switzerland. Ain’t that something?

    P.S. A quick wiki search revealed that the Swiss Presidency is largely ceremonial with executive power actually shared among a “cabinet” of five or six folks.

  • 67. James  |  June 15, 2012 at 11:41 am

    Poolman (56) I love you in the same manly way. Why does that sound gay? I’ll add “like a brother.” Ha!

    What I wrote was the truth. Tea Party demonstrators moved in, stood around, cheered their speakers and programs, policed the area and left.

    OWS were like the “Man Who Came to Dinner.” Never mind their bad fellow travelers. OWS wouldn’t leave. They cost cities money, diverted police resources and in so doing may have contributed to criminality in other parts of cities. They also cost people jobs and made parks unlivable. They threatened violence if city officials dared evict them. They deserved to be pepper sprayed and interrogated. .

    OWS is an odious anti- free enterprise movement prone to the same thuggish behavior Wisconsin unions used against Scott Walker.

    The North Carolina Tea Party, I think, did carry legal weapons to a protest to illustrate their support of the right to bear arms and their peaceful nature. Nothing happened.

    Can you honestly say the same about armed OWS demonstrators?

  • 68. Tex Taylor  |  June 15, 2012 at 11:46 am

    Tex, the Telegraph article you posted called Scott Brown a Tea Party candidate.

    How little you understand of the Tea Party. Nobody is calling Brown a small gov’t Conservative. Nobody. What Brown is, is a much better option than a lying, hypocritical, untrustworthy, freeloading, self serving hag. Practicality is part of the Tea Party equation. A small gov’t Conservative couldn’t win in Massachusetts running as a small gov’t Conservative.

    The fact that you discard Warren’s outrageous claims about race shows once again, how disingenuous the leftist mantra about the definition of racism and power. How do you live with yourself and still call yourself “principled?” There is nothing principled about you.

    Had this been a white Republican making those same claims, we would have never heard the end of it on this blog – and you would have been right to mock.

  • 69. James  |  June 15, 2012 at 11:47 am

    Another thing, I found amusing, Rutherford was that the Obama fund raisers require ID. They should for safety reasons. It is ironic that Obama opposes voter IDs.

    Your comment reminded me of Switzerland. We were out one night in the German language section. Three beautiful women walked ahead of us. One especially was impeccably dressed and made up. She could have been a fashion model.

    They had visited one too many bars. The well turned out woman stopped leaned over a bush and with a loud BUUUUFFFF, expelled her dinner and drinks into a bush.

  • 70. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 11:49 am

    The only thing OWS changed was the rape and murder rates in the cities they occupied.

    It’s a shame I have to resort to bold facing to help you understand stuff Noah but hell I’m a patient man.

    You did not say one of the things OWS changed was the rape and murder rates in the cities they occupied.

    You said, the only thing.

    That is categorically wrong and is an example of rank stupidity. The fact that you needed the sentence so carefully parsed for you is further example of rank stupidity or willful ignorance. I strongly suspect the latter.

  • 71. James  |  June 15, 2012 at 11:54 am

    More outrageous than Elizabeth Warrens’ racial comments was her using the Harvard quota system for personal gain. She stole a job from someone who might have had a legitimate racial claim.

    She also claimed to have been the inspiration for OWS when it was cool.

    Yet, she is still doing well in the polls.

    Sarah Palin was loudly criticized when she told a West Virginia audience, (I think) she was glad to be with real Americans. That may explain the liberal Mass. voters.

  • 72. dead rabbit  |  June 15, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    A legitimate racial claim….that sounds so messed up.

  • 73. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    Tex, sorry I don’t have the patience to read all of the Jeb Bush critique but from the little I read the author’s conclusion involves a logical leap. Folks at the time (Ford) said Reagan couldn’t win because he was too extreme. I submit that his election only proved that Ford misread Reagan, not that he misread the country.

    The fact is, if I’m not mistaken Reagan raised taxes during his administration. That alone would get him on Grover Norquist’s sh*tlist. Add to that the fact that he was willing to work with Tip O’Neill and you’ve got someone totally unacceptable to the current no-compromise Republican party. Did I pull “no compromise” out of my ass? No. John Boehner is on record telling Lesley Stahl of “60 Minutes” that compromise is a dirty word.

    Jeb is right on the money. All these folks waxing poetic about Reagan are full of sh*t. Reagan would have no place in the current scheme of things, nor would his successor. It’s probably one of the several reasons Jeb decided not to run this time around. There’s no place for his brand of intelligence.

    P.S. I can’t remember the last time I tweeted about Jeb Bush so I don’t know which tweets you were referring to in your comment.

  • 74. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    I expect the OWS movement, if it survives will resort to even more violence than it has so far.

    James I hate to beat a dead horse here but again I have to disagree. The violence we have seen is incidental to the movement, a distraction from the movement, not the core philosophy of the movement.

  • 75. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    LOL James …. I was afraid my post might have made me sound like some kind of pet-nut. No, I don’t dress Ollie up and up until literally yesterday, I’ve never spent more than $150.00 on him at one time (again, vet bills). But the fact is he’s getting older and if I want him to live a full life I’ll have to invest a bit.

    Tex, I understand your point about pet insurance. I’ve always rejected the idea and the policy I’m buying doesn’t cover “maintenance”, only illness and accident. But as I said to my wife, the premium is worth it if it keeps me from putting the cat down because I can’t afford to save him. Now of course if he ever gets anything terminal that will cause his last days to be agonizing, then I will have him put down. But if he ever gets sick such that he can be restored to good health, then for my own sake and my daughter’s sake I’ve got to be prepared to pay for it.

    P.S. Scratch that first paragraph …. I have spent more than $150.00 on him but it was for boarding while we humans were on vacation.

  • 76. James  |  June 15, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    “Never once has she volunteered…” Yes, she has. Elizabeth said she had an Indian ancestor. It was part of family lore. She knew it was true because of her high cheek bones. At first, she claimed she had listed an Indian heritage to meet people like her. She claimed she was an Indian to fill a racial quota at Harvard.

    Some years later, she stopped mentioning it.

    She also plagerized two recipies for an Indian cook book. Someone traced them to the Duke and Duchess of Windsor.

    An Indian organization has challenged her to prove her claims.

    Near the end of May, Governor Deval Patrick urged Warren to come clean. She did. “At some point after I was hired by them, I …provided that information to the University of Pennsylvania and Harvard. My Native American heritage is part of who I am. I’m proud of it and I have been open about it.” (Gateway Pundit)

    indiianz.com

    “She doesn’t look Indian,doesn’t have an Indian name, didn’t grwo up on a reservation and is not a registered member of any tribe.

    She has said she was not aware the university was identifying her as a minority, but after weeks of unflattering publicify, she issued a statement Wednesday acknowledging she had told Harvard officials she had Cherokee roots.”

    reason hit & run wrote that the New England Historical and Genealogical Society announced it could fine no documentation to back up Warren’s claim.

    Other researchers learned that Warren’s alleged Indian ancestor was listed in the US Census as white. Her husband probably participated in moving Cherokees to Oklahoma in the Trail of Tears.

    I could give you more. These links prove that Warren was talking about the issue and that she attracted enough attention for disparate groups and organizations to react. Maybe you SHOULD read rags like Conservapedia once in a while.

    Elizabeth Warren didn’t do anything illegal, though she revealed the sort of person she is.

  • 77. James  |  June 15, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    Rutherford, I don’t see anything wrong with spending money on a pet if you can afford it.

    My brother and sister in law spent hundreds of dollars to keep a HAMSTER alive for Pete’s sake.That animal was the Methusula of hampstors.

    I hope you are right about the OWS movement, but the anti Vietnam war movement colors my perceptions since I see so many similarities. I was in as an observer, anti war and anarchist protests in England, Italy, the US, and Holland. Each had an inner core of leaders who were capable of inciting and doing violence if they became frustrated enough. Peaceful or not, the core philosophy is anti-free enterprise.

    Don’t worry about beating a dead horse. I kick skeletons around.

  • 78. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    The Tea Party presented their message through persuasion. OWS presented their message through intimidation.

    James … c’mon. One of the most famous Tea Party signs: “We came unarmed …. this time.”

    Not the least bit intimidating.

    This defense of the Tea Party as virtuous and OWS as demonic misses the mark.

  • 79. thorsaurus  |  June 15, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    “My opinion is confirmed by the general negative view the average person has of OWS and the scarcity of serious 1% talk now. Many of the 99% want to join, not destroy the 1%.” – James

    OWS doesn’t want to destroy the 1%, they want to keep the 1% from destroying the 99%.

    Bernancke used the 99% – 1% terminology testifying in front of a Senate subcommittee last week. In the Mass. Senate race they are talking about Glass-Steagal. I think OWS is being heard, whether you guys want to admit it or not.

  • 80. thorsaurus  |  June 15, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    “Wasn’t he behind the Sex Pistols too?”

    Eww. Bad imagery. ;)

    R, I really don’t know.

  • 81. James  |  June 15, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    I also think Reagan might have had a hard time winning a normal election, but in these hard times, I think he would have won, especially since he was better at one liners in debates. “I paid for this microphone!!” and “There you go again.” helped win votes.

    Reagan later said he regretted raising taxes that time, because the Democrats lied to him about spending cuts they promised.

    Not only did Reagan and Tip O’Neil work together, they golfed and shared Irish stories over adult beverages.

  • 82. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    Tex, thanks for posting Gorilla’s link. I was going to do it later and attribute it to one of my “government sources”. :-) I haven’t read the link yet but G did send me a lengthy note explaining lots of this and it does lay to rest the truther nutjobbery. The most important thing, killing my notion that it LOOKED like a controlled demolition is that such demo’s occur from the bottom up. The bottom is destroyed and the building implodes. These towers clearly fell from the top down.

    Another very interesting point that was made in G’s note is that even if the towers had survived the collision and the fire had been put out, they would have had to be demolished anyway since they were at that point unsafe structures.

  • 83. thorsaurus  |  June 15, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    “but the speed SQUARED. (E = 1/2 mV^2) My understanding is that the first plane hit about 500 knots and the second about 600.”

    Pf, so what you are saying is, the second tower fell first because it was hit at significantly higher speed, resulting in exponentially greater force being applied. Makes sense to me.

    What doesn’t make sense to me is people (sorry to pile on Poolman) that think an administration that squandered a surplus, let Bin Laden slip away, attacked the wrong country and tanked the economy could possibly possess the competency to pull off the greatest hoax in U.S. history.

    Bush IS his own defense. :)

  • 84. James  |  June 15, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    Factions within the OWS DO want the destroy the 1%. I don’t have time now, but if you want, I will look it up.

    I agree, some may still be discussing the concept of income inequality, but that was a concern before OWS adopted it. No one in our part of the country has mentioned OWS in at least a month, and the people out here largely behaved themselves.

    Yes, one might construe that sign to be threatening, or in the same vein as the New Hampshire “Don’t tread on me” (I think) motto. but history shows the Tea Party mostly behaved themselves while OWS did not. it doesn’t matter that they disgusted other members of OWS. They were its face, because of their numbers.

    Back to a semblance of keeping on topic. I liked Annette of the Mickey Mouse Club. “Today is Tuesday, You know what that means. We’re going to have a special guest today.” sang the kids as they rode stick horses and sported cowboy outfits. At least, it is how I remember it.

  • 85. James  |  June 15, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    thor, “Bush is his own defense.” settled the argument for me a long time ago.

  • 86. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    How little you understand of the Tea Party.

    Tex you can paint a horse with stripes and it still ain’t a zebra. Did the Tea Party want Brown elected over whatshername? Sure they did. That is different from a “Tea Party candidate”. Sharon Angle was a Tea Party candidate. The “I’m not a witch” from Maryland was a Tea Party candidate. Brown was not. Plain and simple.

    To repeat …. I don’t see Warren running around trumpeting about being a Native American. My suspicion is that this foolishness from her past was surfaced to discredit her because she has one of the clearest voices among Dem candidates today.

  • 87. poolman  |  June 15, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    No problem, Thor. I’m used to the pile on. The fact that we CAN still have this discussion gives me optimism.

    I believe Bush was complacent. He was not a planner in this wizardry. But Cheney, well… time will reveal many things.

    Here you go. This is fun…

  • 88. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 1:06 pm

    I found amusing, Rutherford was that the Obama fund raisers require ID. They should for safety reasons. It is ironic that Obama opposes voter IDs.

    If Obama were at each polling place, he’d require ID then too. As you say, it is for safety reasons.

    I repeat my mantra:
    Better that ten dead men vote than one live legit voter be denied.

  • 89. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    Bush IS his own defense. :)

    LOL That is classic!

  • 90. Alfie  |  June 15, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    Disney sucks,has sucked and will continue to suck. Parents who abandon their duties to a television,a bureaucrat or a company need to be taken out.

  • 91. Alfie  |  June 15, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    Rutherford 88 keep spouting the myth buddy,if you hold onto that turd hard enough and long enough maybe it will turn into a diamond.

  • 92. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    James you’re a good 18 or so years older than I from what I’ve gathered but from what I understand a lot of boys had a thing for Annette Funicello. :-) The original Mickey Mouse Club was before my time.

  • 93. Alfie  |  June 15, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    The Sex Pistols were indeed “managed & messaged” by Malcolm McLaren. The Pistol provoked a lot of things but the best by far was allowing another real and honest band open for them on their Anarchy UK tour, that of course would be “the only band that matters”, The Clash

  • 94. poolman  |  June 15, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    These towers clearly fell from the top down.

    Except WTC 7. But the top down was explained by W (maybe the ol’ Freudian slip)…

  • 95. Alfie  |  June 15, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    Warrens actions after the discovery of her lies speaks volumes more and does so louder than anything currently in the mix for Romney or even Obama.

  • 96. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    Alfie would you not agree that folks have died to maintain a democracy in which all eligible people can vote? If the crackdown on supposed fraud keeps those eligible people from voting, have we not betrayed our founding fathers?

  • 97. thorsaurus  |  June 15, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    “Parents who abandon their duties to a television,a bureaucrat or a company need to be taken out.” – A

    I agree wholeheartedly, if only metaphorically on the last part. But remember there are kids with “absent” parents or no parents at all.

    Speaking of parents, happy Father’s Day to all the dads on the board, especially you Rabbit. You just went through some of the “tough” Daddy stuff, hope you get lots of the “good” Daddy stuff this weekend.

  • 98. Alfie  |  June 15, 2012 at 1:22 pm

    Whether you look at the MSM,the FAZ article,a SANA piece or essays on the World Socialist movements website and assorted other “media” sites the one crystal clear truth that always seems to leer out is the demographic makeup of Syria.
    With that said I find it amazing folks find the FULL truth so hard to grasp.

  • 99. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    Regarding 94, our first dyslexic President meant “explosions” not “explosives”. Thor nailed this. Bush is the worst witness possible for the truther conspiracy. The man could never talk straight regardless of the topic.

    I saw a recent interview with Nicolle Wallace who worked for Bush prior to being in the McCain campaign. She said that Bush was intelligent and could command attention when speaking but as soon as the camera turned on, he became a babbling idiot (my words, not hers).

  • 100. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    With that said I find it amazing folks find the FULL truth so hard to grasp.

    I found that cryptic Alfie. Care to elaborate?

  • 101. Alfie  |  June 15, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    @ thor 97 regardless of what I may or may not earn reputation wise I’m not seriously advocating whacking crappy parents. Just saying fwiw.
    @ Rutherford 96 you have it upside down and inside out. People have served and at times died to protect our democracy and as such clearly would want people to be truly eligible to vote. Cracking down on fraud I think delivers to a higher order the idea of the Founders.

  • 102. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    I second Thor’s sentiment that among us Dads Rabbit is most deserving of a great Father’s Day this Sunday. He’s done rough Dad duty recently.

  • 103. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    Alfie this would only be true if entire swaths of voter rolls weren’t being wiped out. The situation is so bad in Florida that some local voter officials (I don’t remember their actual titles) are refusing to do the scrubbing. Rick Scott’s intentions may be pure, but I suspect he’s going about it the wrong way.

  • 104. Alfie  |  June 15, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    @ Rutherford 100 I’m indulging a guilty pleasure and unfairly so since I have to leave the computer in about ten minutes. Spoiler alert is it is precisely the demographics of Syria that lends cred to a notion of potential civil war. I dare say demographics is the overlooked concept in the entire Arab Spring.
    On a semi-related note some of the most ardent “mercenary”/ (NOT!) supporters of K-Daffy have had a dramatic impact on a country in Africa and sadly the West doesn’t really care. Perhaps ‘cuz the folks look more like Rwandans than Jesus.

  • 105. poolman  |  June 15, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    President meant “explosions” not “explosives

    Better listen to the clip again. Regardless if he MEANT explosions or explosives, he claims they were set to start high enough at the top and go down to keep PEOPLE from escaping.

    What would cause explosions in a steel and concrete building? The things were pulverized and bone bits were found on roof tops hundreds of yards away. Steel girders were expelled at forces in excess of 175MPH.

    Don’t talk to me about not understanding physics. I deal with it everyday in my day job.

  • 106. Alfie  |  June 15, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    @ 103 perspective Rutherford perspective.
    In the county (Pinellas) in question or at least progressively headlined there were a total of no more than 15 voters purged.Thats in a county with 598,596 registered voters.
    the action that has earned Scott the ire of the DoJ is ironic in some ways since he is a textbook example of his cause and remedy. He was purged from the rolls and had to use a provisional ballot. So even if the 14-15 folks were not reinstated,they still could’ve voted with a provisional ballot which would count or trash their vote within 30 days.
    Nope I have to say it is a good idea. In my town if I don’t answer the town census I can be dropped from the rolls. Purging is right. If it matters I’m for easy registration,hell I’m even open to registration to include issuing an official ID. I’m not the bogey man on this one,albeit me being biased on that notion lol.

  • 107. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    Steel girders were expelled at forces in excess of 175MPH.

    Folks are going to get annoyed at me for even debating this with you but again, you’ve pointed out something that defeats the truther scenario. A controlled demolition implodes, not explodes a building. Structure flying away from the towers suggests they were not demolished. Rather, the force of floor hitting floor hitting floor sent debris outward.

  • 108. Tex Taylor  |  June 15, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    The fact is, if I’m not mistaken Reagan raised taxes during his administration. That alone would get him on Grover Norquist’s sh*tlist. Add to that the fact that he was willing to work with Tip O’Neill and you’ve got someone totally unacceptable to the current no-compromise Republican party.

    You’re still under the illusion that this is your daddy’s Dimocratic Party. Your party has been taken over by extremists – not tax extremists – American hating extremists. Fat Grannies is your Dimocratic party, and one day if you hang around long enough, they are going to eat you too.

    P.S. Speed of impact of the planes into the tower had far less to do with impact, then the location of where the planes hit. It wasn’t kinetic energy that brought the towers down. The lower proximity to the ground and the location of the structure is why the second tower fell first (m*g*h), plus taking out more support beams upon impact.

  • 109. Tex Taylor  |  June 15, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    I guarantee you George Jr. is more intellectual capable than the gaffe a minute, pompous windbag in the White House now. If he was Magna Cum, it was obviously granted him. Obama is of marginal intelligence at best – of that, I am absolutely sure now.

    first dyslexic President meant “explosions” not “explosives”

    Our second dyslexic President meant CORPSEMAN – three times.

  • 110. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    Alfie, I think we can agree then that we should make it as easy as possible for legit voters to vote. I get the impression that conservatives are taking a glass-half-empty approach to this, hunting for fraud instead of implementing processes so easy that no legit vote could complain about his ability to vote. Why did they temporarily require registration rolls be turned in within 48 hours, thereby making Friday registrations a meaningless process? Some are making it harder for legit folks to vote and that just ain’t right.

  • 111. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    Tex, I’ve suspected Bush dyslexic for some time now and contrary to what you may think I don’t make the assertion derisively. In fact, I have a post from some years ago expressing sympathy for the man. I think it interfered with his ability to communicate and may very well have interfered with his ability to control his neocon advisers.

  • 112. James  |  June 15, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    Here is another Elizabeth story.from The Daily Telegraph. Elizabeth Warren’s ‘Native American claims: if she was a Republican, the media would call her a racist.”

    “Imagine if she ( a Republican candidate) used that identity to have herself listed as a minority at Harvard qualifying her for special treatment….If there is any reason why Democrats and liberals aren’t showing the expected anger about this, its because their sector of the media has declined to discuss it.”

    “Last night,” she was chatting with Chris Mathews, and he didn’t mention the minor scandal.”She’s competing in a naturally democratic state that turned bellweather when it elected a Tea Party candidate, Republican, Scott Brown. “When it comes to racism, the Democratic credo is ‘do as I say, not as I do.”

    You didn’t see Elizabeth Warren talking about her native American ancestry because you were hanging around with the wrong people. That a British news paper is writing about it, gives me an even better excuse to say “I told you so” as I did “Poolman” about the early Tea Party and the friend who thought I was full of it when I said we’d get a thunderstorm last Sunday afternoon. .

  • 113. eltigre100  |  June 15, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    “If the crackdown on supposed fraud keeps those eligible people from voting, have we not betrayed our founding fathers?”

    If fraud vitiates the value of the vote, then the “right” to vote is a hollow one.

  • 114. nagic  |  June 15, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    Rutherford
    Really Rutherford. you are hanging your ENTIRE remark on the “only” thing? Really?

    This is what I mean about you being dishonest. You didn’t post it was wrong because I made the off the cuff remark of it being the only thing, You said it was wrong…PERIOD.

    Is this really how you want to go on the record saying you defend your all mighty Leftist points of view? I was making the point that your all mighty OWS people are fucking criminals. There is proof they are fucking criminals. Stop being such a dishonest asshole and step your ass up to the plate. Dont fucking tell me I am wrong based on a stupid nuance like that.

    How does it feel to represent a position that forces you to use cheap tactics like that and to ignore the obvious?

    And as your dishonesty continues let me correct you again. I have no issue with you going on meaningless points on an article. It is when you do so and that is your ONLY response, then you claim you commented on it while IGNORING the meat of the article I took issue with. Maybe instead of taking a social course so you can find other ways you are a victim you might instead take a course on ethics.

  • 115. eltigre100  |  June 15, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    “Really Rutherford. you are hanging your ENTIRE remark on the “only” thing? Really?”

    R, you really did prove his point with that one. That was seriously lame-o.

  • 117. James  |  June 15, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    Happy Fathers’ Day to the fathers, and especially rabbit.

    Yes, Rutherford, you missed something when Annette was on the Disney show.

    I agree Bush is smarter than his public appearances indicate.

    “Better that ten dead men vote than deny the legitimate vote of one man.” Only if the dead men vote Republican!!

  • 118. poolman  |  June 15, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    A controlled demolition implodes, not explodes a building. Structure flying away from the towers suggests they were not demolished. Rather, the force of floor hitting floor hitting floor sent debris outward.

    Rutherford, as one on here that is a real searcher of truth, as I believe you to be, I don’t want to harp on you, but this is somewhat ignorant a statement.

    Demolitions can be designed to implode a building and get it to fall in on itself. This is how WTC 7 DID indeed fall. There are plenty of clips showing that and from many angles.

    But explosives can blow out. The word itself describes that. Implode vs explode. But enough about semantics. The crews that set up controlled demolitions often spend weeks placing these in the proper places to ensure that they fall in rather than out.

    A floor falling on a floor – the pancake theory that NIST discarded, would slow the fall at each impact. It would never expel steel beams VERTICALLY, and certainly not at that velocity.

    Instead, they fell at free fall speed. Like there was nothing in between them and the ground. Additionally, there were massive craters under the buildings that someone here was trying to attribute to kinetic energy. :lol:

    That is why over 1,600 experts have studied this and gone on record in dispute of the government’s story, thereby putting their own safety on the line. I can list for you many that have died for speaking truth to power over this.

  • 119. poolman  |  June 15, 2012 at 2:41 pm

    oops…’VERTICALLY’, sorry. rather Horizontally.

  • 120. dead rabbit  |  June 15, 2012 at 2:58 pm

    R, if 10 dead men vote, that means ten citizens lost their vote

  • 121. El Tigre  |  June 15, 2012 at 3:08 pm

    “R, if 10 dead men vote, that means ten citizens lost their vote.”

    Unless you;re a dem, in which case you’re vote just is worth a 1000% more.

  • 122. El Tigre  |  June 15, 2012 at 3:10 pm

    “your”

    Is anyone else having trouble with the comment fields on wordpress? Damn they are really screwy on my machine.

  • 123. Tex Taylor  |  June 15, 2012 at 3:48 pm

    Poolman, you need to read the article linked. Let me fill you in on a secret:

    I was wrong. You don’t understand the concept of gravity either. Gravity is more than when your parents dropped you on your head continually. Brain trauma. Gravity accelerates at approximately 9.8 m/s^2 or about 32 ft/s^2.

    If that had been a controlled implosion as you suggest, the top floor would have hit the ground at a very specific time. I could calculate to within milliseconds the figure, if I wanted to pull out a calculator.

    It didn’t.

    You’re dumb a stump. But you still need to go see a psychiatrist, for the reasons I gave above. Nobody can fix your abject ignorance and stupidity – obviously, there was a defect or perhaps your dad drilled one too many holes in your skull to relieve the pressure.

    But the M.D. might be able to deal with your delusions and paranoia.

  • 124. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 4:13 pm

    Really Rutherford. you are hanging your ENTIRE remark on the “only” thing? Really?

    Really. The fact that your comment devolved into a slew of expletives (unprecedented from you) tells me I hit a nerve.

    Noah, either you write what you mean or you don’t. Let’s try one more time. If OWS’s only contribution was an increased crime rate then it follows logically (assuming we both speak English) that there is no other contribution. I said that was rank stupidity since I believe OWS did contribute to a valuable discussion in this country.

    Had you written that one of OWS’s most noticeable contributions was criminal, I very simply would NOT have called it rank stupidity. There was crime. And “one of” leaves the door open for a discussion of other possible OWS contributions.

    Words have meaning … all the more so in this forum where I don’t have any visual clues to infer from. Say what you mean and prepare to get your ass handed to you when what you mean is rank stupidity. I’ve already told you that you lean toward the melodramatic hyperbole and I will call you on it when I perceive it.

    If you have a challenge with the English language, tell me now and I’ll back off.

  • 125. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 4:17 pm

    R, you really did prove his point with that one. That was seriously lame

    Tigre, as big a kick as I get out of you, your logic during arguments goes off kilter so often that this criticism from you goes in one ear and out the other. See 124. Words have meaning. I would think an attorney above anyone else would know that.

  • 126. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 4:19 pm

    Good question. Any theories?

    I can’t speak for three of the cases but in the fourth regarding the human being in the photograph, he got democratically voted in with the required electoral vote. Sorry if after three years you still can’t accept that.

  • 127. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 4:20 pm

    Only if the dead men vote Republican!!

    Touche James … that was a hoot.

  • 128. dead rabbit  |  June 15, 2012 at 4:20 pm

    What orginal conversation did OWS spur any of us to have? Infact, to this day I only remember a boring theme of class warfare, no articulation of why they are occupying wallstreet and late night jokes about shitting on cars. I saw no evidence they influenced the vote. I saw some horrid news stories of abandoned childeren.

  • 129. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 4:25 pm

    A floor falling on a floor – the pancake theory that NIST discarded, would slow the fall at each impact.

    Wouldn’t the velocity increase once the downward force from above overcame the resistance from below?

  • 130. Rutherford  |  June 15, 2012 at 4:30 pm

    I saw no evidence they influenced the vote.

    Rabbit, what have I said repeatedly? They did not turn the message/protest to any political advantage. But I give you credit for accidentally admitting they had a message. You called it class warfare. I prefer to call it concern about the concentration of wealth among a very small group of people in this country, leading to the death of the middle class.

  • 131. muffy  |  June 15, 2012 at 4:42 pm

    This blog is entertaining as hell. Rutherford this is your radio show, my friend.

    PS…“Gravity is more than when your parents dropped you on your head continually…” LOL x 1,000.

  • 132. nagic  |  June 15, 2012 at 5:39 pm

    Alrighty Rutherford, Zero integrity. I will treat you accordingly until that changes. So lets give you proof of the criminality of the organization you covet.

    Let us start with a summary.

    Occupy Oakland Protesters Charged With Hate Crime, Robbery
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/05/occupy-oakland-hate-crime_n_1322506.html

    10/28/2011 — Total Occupy Arrests Made Thus Far: 2750

    As of Nov 11.

    Arson

    Occupy Fort Collins – Member arrested, $10 million in damage
    Occupy Portland – Member arrested for throwing Molotov Cocktail
    Occupy Seattle – Suspicious fire at Bank of America 2.7 miles from camp
    Occupy Portland – Three men arrested with homemade grenades

    Assault/Threats

    Occupy SF – 12 assaults in 24 hours
    Occupy LA – 4 assaults including two with knives
    Occupy Philly – Man punches woman in the face
    Occupy LA – Two assaults including setting someone on fire
    Occupy Berkeley – Police respond to three assault calls per night
    Occupy Wall Street – Three men threaten the life of a sexual assault victim
    Occupy Lawrence – Punch thrown
    Occupy Orlando – Knife fight sends man to hospital
    Occupy Portland – Multiple assaults within a 24 hr. period
    Occupy Toledo – Man assaults police officer after arrest
    Occupy San Diego – Woman assaults cameraman
    Occupy Victoria – Man dumps urine on city worker
    Occupy Vancouver – Two police officers bitten during near riot
    Occupy Oakland – Death threats
    Occupy Austin – Man in Joker make-up arrested for brandishing knife
    Occupy Oakland – Man sets his dog on reporter
    Occupy Oakland – Man pulls a knife in camp
    Occupy Wall Street – Photographer assaulted

    Drugs/Dealing

    Occupy Boston – Two drug busts in a week
    Occupy Boston – Another drug arrest
    Occupy Boston – Heroin dealers busted were living with 6 year old boy directly behind welcome tent
    Occupy Portland – First hand account “Drugs. Selling…Heroin. Meth.”
    Occupy Portland – Video of open drug use in the camp
    Occupy Portland – “I get high“

    Fraud

    National Lawyer’s Guild member Ari Douglas pretends to be run over by a police scooter

    Illness/Death

    Occupy Santa Cruz – Ringworm outbreak
    Occupy Atlanta – TB outbreak
    Occupy Wall Street – Zuccotti lung outbreak
    Occupy New Orleans – Man discovered in tent had been dead 2 days
    Occupy Portland – Body lice outbreak

    Murder

    Occupy Oakland – Fatal shooting

    Public disturbance

    Occupy Dallas – Protesters block bank entrance, 23 arrested
    Occupy Vancouver – Mob with bullhorn enters bank
    Occupy Wall Street – Protesters block bank entrance, four arrested
    Occupier takes a bathroom break in the street
    Occupy Vancouver – Occupiers disrupt debate, threaten riot when asked to leave
    Occupy Long Beach – Group disrupts city council meeting
    Occupy Boston – Three arrested for occupying Burger King
    Occupy Oakland – Yelling and nonsense at Burger King
    Occupy DC – Group storms AFP event, traps attendees inside

    Rape/Sexual Assault

    Occupy Philly – Man arrested for alleged rape
    Occupy Wall Street – Two sexual assaults unreported to police
    Occupy Wall Street – Man arrested for sexual assault, suspect in rape
    Occupy Dallas – Sex offender allegedly rapes 14 year old
    Occupy Ottawa – Sexual assaults go unreported to police
    Occupy Lawrence – Sexual assault reported
    Occupy Toronto – Foot sniffer arrested
    Occupy Seattle – Man exposes himself to young girls
    Occupy Portland – Sexual assault
    Occupy Wall Street – Drunk gropes women in Zuccotti Park
    Occupy Cleveland – Rape reported after an overnight stay
    Occupy Glasgow – Possible gang rape
    Occupy Baltimore – Multiple reports of harassment
    Occupy Chicago – Man arrested for child porn
    Occupy LA – Man charged with exposing himself to a child

    Sedition

    Occupy DC – Let’s have a coup by taking over the military
    Ted Rall wants occupiers to choose the path of violence
    Occupy DC – Mike Malloy incites crowd to cheer for President Bush’s execution

    Suicide/Overdose

    Occupy Burlington – Man kills himself with handgun
    Occupy Salt Lake City – Man found dead with syringe in his tent
    Occupy Vancouver – Young woman dies of cocaine and heroine overdose
    Occupy OKC – Young man with history of drug abuse found dead

    Theft

    Occupy Portland – Theft is ongoing
    Occupy Boston – Store owner suffers 4 break-ins since camp began

    Vandalism

    Occupy Eureka – Protesters use local bank as a toilet
    Occupy Portland – Two banks vandalized, promises of more to come
    Occupy Oakland – Bank windows broken, Whole Foods vandalized, broken windows
    Occupy Boston – Banks vandalized with anarchist, OWS graffiti
    Occupy Portland – Spike in vandalism near camp
    Occupy SF: ATMs being smeared with feces
    Occupy Santa Fe: Banks vandalized with OWS-themed graffiti
    Occupy San Diego – Vendors cart vandalized with bodily fluids
    Occupy graffiti found on PA governor’s mansion

    NY: 10/1/2011 — Police Arrest More Than 700 Protesters on Brooklyn Bridge
    Madison, WI: 10-27-2011 — Madison Occupiers Lose Permit Due to Public Masturbation
    Phoenix: 10/28/2011 — Flier at Occupy Phoenix Asks, “When Should You Shoot a Cop?”
    NY: 10/18/2011 — Thieves Preying on Fellow Protesters
    NY: 10/9/2011 — Stinking up Wall Street: Protesters Accused of Living in Filth as Shocking Pictures Show One Demonstrator Defecating on a POLICE CAR
    NY: 10/7/2011 — Occupiers Rush Police
    Seattle: 10/18/2011 — Man Accused of Exposing Self to Children Arrested
    Portland: 10/16/2011 – #OccupyPortland Protester Desecrates Memorial To U.S. War Dead
    Portland: 10/15/2011 — #OccupyPortland Protesters Sing *beep* The USA”
    Boston: 10/11/2011 — Boston Police Arrest Over 100 from Occupy Boston
    New York: 10/15/2011 — Harassing Police with Accusations of Phony Injuries
    New York: 10/9/2011 – ‘Occupy Wallstreet’ Protesters Steal from Local Businesses
    New York: 10/25/2011 — Three Men Threatened to Kill 24-Year-Old Occupy Wall Street Protester for Reporting Rape
    Baltimore: 10/18/2011 — #OccupyBaltimore Discourages Sexual Assault Victims from Contacting Police
    Portland: 10/27/2011 — Occupy Portland’s Attempt At Wealth Redistribution Ends In Theft
    Los Angeles: 10/14/2011 – Anti-Semitic Protester at Occupy Wall Street
    10/27/2011 — A Death Threat From an Occupy Wall Street Protester
    Boston: 10/20/2011 — Occupy Boston Doesn’t Want Police Involved in Rape
    New York: 10/2011 — Occupier Tries to Steal Police Officer’s Gun
    New York: 10/27/2011 — Occupiers Block Traffic, Get Arrested
    Oakland: 10/27/2011 — Occupiers Throw Garbage at Police
    Oakland: 10/19/2011 — Abusive #OccupyOakland Protesters Ban Media from Tent City
    Eugene, OR: 10/19/2011 — Occupiers Displace Farmers’ Market Threatening Hundreds of Jobs
    NY: 10/20/2011 — #OccupyWallStreet Threatens Businesses, Patrons
    Oakland: 10/26/2011 — Occupiers Scuffle with Police
    Oakland: 10/24/2011 — Protesters Storm, Vandalize, Shut Down Chase Bank
    Dayton, OH: 10/22/2011 — Protester: *beep* The Military, *beep* Your Flag, And *beep* The Police’
    Chicago: 10/14/2011 – Protesters’ Message At #OccupyChicago Rally: ‘Destroy Israel’
    NY: 10/23/2011 — #OccupyWallStreet Supporter Rants Against Israel, Jews
    NY: 10/21/2011 — New Yorkers Fed Up With Noisy, Defecating Protesters
    Oakland: 10/21/2011 — Occupy Oakland Evicted After Reports Of Crime And Intimidation
    Oakland: 10/19/2011 — #OccupyOakland Out of Control: Rats, Graffiti, Vandalism, Sexual Harassment, Public Sex and Urination
    Chicago: 10/26/2011 – Occupiers Under Investigation by FBI for Links to Terrorism
    Cleveland: 10/29/2011 — Rape Reported at Occupy Cleveland
    Dallas: 10/24/2011 — Police Investigating Possible Sexual Assault Of Teen At Occupy Dallas
    Bloomington, IN: 10/26/2011 — Man Claims Occupy Bloomington Protesters Drugged, Handcuffed Him
    NY: 10/10/2011 — Sex, Drugs and Hiding from the Law at Wall Street Protests
    Glasgow: 10/26/2011 — Woman Gang-Raped
    Boston: 10/23/2011 — Occupy Boston Protesters Arrested For Dealing Heroin – With 6 Year-Old in Tent
    Portland: 10/16/2011 – Sex Offender Registers Occupy Portland Camp as Address
    Denver: 10/15/2011 — Occupy Denver Demonstrator Accused of Groping TV Photographer
    Lawrence, KS: 10/25/2011 — Sexual Assault Reported at Occupy Camp
    10/26/2011 — ACORN, Occupy Email Talks About Assault on Banks
    10/26/2011 – OccupyWallStreet Strategy for Reports of Violence Against Cops
    San Diego: 10/25/2011 — Flag Used as Chew Toy by Occupier’s Dog
    Oakland: 10/25/2011 — Occupiers Throw Bottles at Police
    NY: 10/28/2011 — Fox 5 News Reporter Assaulted at OWS
    Nashville: 10/28/2011 — 30 Arrests Made at Wall St. Protest
    NY: 10/20/2011 — Former Marine Tries to Taunt Police into Violence
    NY: 1023/2011 — Islamist Group Joins with Occupy Wall Street
    Los Angeles: 10/13/2011 — Roundup of Overt Occupy anti-Semitism
    NY: 10/12/2011 — There are No Anti-Semites at Occupy Wall Street. Except for This Guy
    Missoula, MT: 10/20/2011 — Drunk 11-Year-Old At Occupy Missoula, Adult Arrested
    San Diego: 10/28/2011 – 40 Occupiers arrested

    Manchester, NH: 10/28/2011 – Woman charged with pimping teen recruited at Occupy NH rally

    Calgary, CN: 10/28/2011 — Occupiers do $40,000 in Property Damage
    Cincinnati, OH: 10/21/2011 — 23 Arrested, Remains of protests fill two dumpsters
    Sacramento: 10/19/2011 – 9 arrested in ‘Occupy Sacramento’ protest
    Sacramento: 10/13/2011 – Four More Occupy Sacramento Demonstrators Arrested
    Austin, TX: 10/22/2011 – Man Arrested After Knife Incident at Occupy Austin Camp
    Nashville: 10/29/2011 — Tenn. Protesters Arrested For 2nd Straight Night
    Austin, TX: 10/30/2011 – Austin Police arrest 38 Occupy Austin Protesters
    NY: 10/30/2011 — Woman Assaulted in Her tent
    Orlando, FL: 10/28/2011 – Occupy Orlando, police clash over use of downtown park
    Orlando, FL: 10/26/2011 – 2 Occupy Orlando protesters arrested for trespass
    Orlando, FL: 10/22/2011 – Police arrest 19 Orlando protesters on trespass charges
    Oklahoma City: 10/30/2011 — Death of Street Poet at #OccupyOKC Treated as Homicide
    Baltimore: 10/31/2011 — Woman Claims She was Raped at #OccupyBaltimore
    Ottawa: 10/31/2011 — #OccupyOttawa Violent & Sexual Assaults Not Reported to Police
    Santa Barbara, CA: 10/5/2011 — Occupiers Defy Police
    Santa Barbara, CA: 10/6/2011 — 8 Occupiers Arrested
    Denver, CO: 10/31/2011 — Occupiers Taunt Police, Knock Motorcycle Cop to Ground
    Dallas, TX: 10/24/2011 — 23 Occupy Dallas Protesters Arrested After Bank Demonstration
    Richmond, VA: 10/31/2011 — Arrests of Occupiers in Richmond
    Dallas, TX: 1v1/1/2011: Man Arrested for Child Sex assault at Occupy Dallas Camp
    San Diego: 10/29/2011 — Businesswoman Closes Shop After Threats By Occupiers
    Palm Desert, CA: 11/1/2011 — Occupiers Arrested
    Tampa, FL: 10/24/2011 — Six Occupiers Arrested
    Tampa, FL: 10/27/2011 – Two More Arrested In Connection to Occupy Tampa Movement
    Tampa, FL: 10/29/2011 – Occupy Tampa Protesters Arrested After Scuffle With Police
    Sacramento, CA: 11/2/2011 — Occupiers Smash County Vehicle Windows
    Philadelphia: 11/2/2011 — Occupiers Arrested
    Charlottesville, VA: 11/1/2011 — Underage Drinking at Occupy Charlottesville Site
    Portland: 11/2/2011 — Occupier Shoves Police Officer into Moving Bus
    Oakland: 11/2/2011 — Malkin’s Collection of Vandalism and Menacing Signs
    NYC: 11/3/2011 — Occupier Busted In Tent Grope, Suspected In Rape
    NYC: 11/4/2011 – 16 OWS Protesters Arrested at Goldman Sachs HQ
    Oakland, CA: 11-3-2011 — Occupy-Friendly Business Vandalized
    Asheville, NC: 11/3/2011 — 24 Occupiers Arrested
    Raleigh, NC: 10/28/2011 – Eight at Occupy Raleigh Arrested After Standoff
    NYC: 11/4/2011 — Deranged Homeless Man Goes on Violent Rampage In Zuccotti Park
    Dallas, TX: CPS Seizes Baby From ‘Occupy Dallas’ Site
    Wash DC: 11/4/2011 — Occupier Uses Child as Human Shield — Video
    Wash DC: 11/4/2011 — Occupiers Try to Storm Americans for Prosperity Event — Video
    Omaha, NE: 11/3/2011 — Three Occupiers Arrested
    Atlanta: 11/3/2011 — Protester Turns On Fellow Protester With Knife
    Los Angeles: 10/28/2011 — Drug Use and Property Damage
    Boston, MA: 11/4/2011 — 3 Charged With Dealing Crack; Occupy Boston ‘Deteriorating’
    Boston, MA: 11/4/2011 — Occupiers Storm Israeli Consulate; Anti-Israel Chants — Video
    Vancouver, CN: 11/5/2011 – Occupy Vancouver Death Dooms Protest Camp
    Fort Collins, CO: 11/4/2011 — Occupier Arrested for Setting Fire to Condo Complex … $10M Damage
    Chula Vista, CA: 11/6/2011 — Underage Girl Missing From Occupy Protests
    Los Angeles, CA: 11/5/2011 – Two Assaults Raise Concerns About Crime at Occupy L.A.
    Dallas, TX: 11/5/2011 — Eight Arrests at Dallas Bank Protest
    Olympia, WA: 11/5/2011 – Two Occupy Protesters Arrested
    Olympia, WA: 11/2/2011 — 3 Occupiers Arrested for Suspected of Robbing Local Wine Merchant
    Worcester, MA: 11/6/2011 — 25 Occupiers Arrested
    Milwaukee, WI: 11/2/2011 — Photojournalist, Two others Arrested at Protest … Video
    Milwaukee, WI: 10/20/2011 — Police Confront Occupier –Video … Arrested
    Wash. DC: 11/5/2011 — Rampaging Occupiers Attack 78 Year-Old Woman — Video
    Rochester, NY: 11/3/2011 — 161 Occupiers Arrested at Park
    NYC: 11/5/2011 – Police Clash With Occupiers, 20 Arrested at Courthouse Protest
    NYC: 11/5/2011 — Occupier Arrested for Vandalizing McDonald’s; Wanted Free Food
    Asheville, NC: 11/5/2011 – Four Occupiers Arrested
    Honolulu, HI: 11/6/2011 — Police Arrest Half-Dozen Occupiers
    Waikiki, HI: 11/7/2011 — Two Dozen Occupiers Arrested

    NYC: 11/8/2011 — Occupier: ‘I Wouldn’t Give a *beep* if 9/11 Happened 911 More Times’

    Let me catch my breath and I will continue.

  • 133. nagic  |  June 15, 2012 at 6:25 pm

    Really. The fact that your comment devolved into a slew of expletives (unprecedented from you) tells me I hit a nerve.

    No it means I am dealing with a punk who lacks the ability to take the true meaning of what a person says and answer it honestly. You chose, because of the kind of person you are, to take the low road and the easy way out. You ARE the stereotype.

    Noah, either you write what you mean or you don’t. Let’s try one more time. If OWS’s only contribution was an increased crime rate then it follows logically (assuming we both speak English) that there is no other contribution. I said that was rank stupidity since I believe OWS did contribute to a valuable discussion in this country.

    The statement read..The only thing OWS changed was the rape and murder rates in the cities they occupied.

    Did the word “only” make it “technically” false? Yes I suppose so. Is it 99% accurate. Yes, yes it is. Over stated but true. Everywhere this group went, those crimes went up. The fact you want to hang your total worth on “only” tells us:

    1) Your a bitch
    2) You have no integrity
    3) You cannot be objective
    4) The truth only has value to you when it benefits you.
    5) You are one of the writers over at fat grannies(We all know there is no Margaret and Helen, at least not anymore)

    More valuable than this though we get to see what the real Rutherford is all about. When push comes to shove, you are just another Leftist pushing an agenda. You have zero credibility, zero ethical standards. You sir are a fraud. Best part is…you did it to yourself.

  • 134. nagic  |  June 15, 2012 at 6:25 pm

    ya i know..you’re

  • 135. muffy  |  June 15, 2012 at 6:49 pm

    Nevermind.

  • 136. Tex Taylor  |  June 15, 2012 at 6:50 pm

    Well Rutherford. I think Nagic documented that pretty well about OWS, don’t you think?

    Please, please keep trumpeting OWS until November. It’s a winning strategy. :wink: And for sure open the door for them to the convention. It will be beautiful, man.

  • 137. Tex Taylor  |  June 15, 2012 at 6:55 pm

    Rabbit, I haven’t heard the latest on Leo. What’s the scoop? I assume everyone is home?

  • 138. dead rabbit  |  June 15, 2012 at 7:22 pm

    Tex, outside of a little thrush and a bad temper, the little guy is doing great. I will say this. I forgot how much goes into having a new born in the house. The toddler Rabbit is with me non stop while my wife takes care of Leo. The amount of work that goes into raising two compared to one is much more then double.

  • 139. dead rabbit  |  June 15, 2012 at 7:32 pm

    The other day I was not father of the year. I took our toddler to my softball game without the right clothing for the falling temp. He had a diaper full of piss I forgot to change and a filthy face. Luckly some of the chicks at the game were able to hook him up with a blanket. Our 3rd basemen had a trunk full of diapers. Turns out he is an active abortion protester and gives diapers to people at clinics in the hood. Poor kid was in a stained wife beater and the temp was falling into the 50s. The girls booed me everytime I was batting but my boy was happily screaming Daddy!

    We are together non stop. I just DH for softball so I can watch him during games.

    Man do I suck by the way. My power is gone. Makes it very easy to quit tournament teams. The damn coach seemed relieved! I’M OLD!!

  • 140. poolman  |  June 15, 2012 at 8:12 pm

    Because people get arrested they are criminal? I know we have pretty much done way with due process and anything resembling a democracy, let alone a republic, but seriously? That might be the stupidest thing I’ve read on this blog, and there have been some real doozies.

    Did it ever occur to you the reason they were arrested was because the national attention was starting to influence the sheeple and threatened the elite’s power structure?

    Never mind. I forgot how non productive debated with any of your alias really is.

  • 141. Tex Taylor  |  June 15, 2012 at 8:15 pm

    The amount of work that goes into raising two compared to one is much more then double.

    My kids are 16 months apart. Isn’t that the truth about more than double the work? I think it’s because you never get much of a break. When you had one, you can hand off.

    Of course, my sweet wife did 95% of the work, but the other 5% about put me under. :twisted: Why this wonderful woman is stuck with me is truly one of the greatest injustices in human history.

    And for some unknown reason, she apparently loves me. I think it is because I clean the kitchen floor before she gets home.

  • 142. poolman  |  June 15, 2012 at 8:20 pm

    Speaking of criminal…

  • 143. poolman  |  June 15, 2012 at 9:13 pm

    Criminal or coincidence?

  • 144. an800lbgorilla  |  June 15, 2012 at 9:53 pm

    R, clearly piss pot has no grasp on basic physics. He’s an idiot. Always has been, always will be.

  • 145. Alfie  |  June 15, 2012 at 10:13 pm

    I’m gonna toss on my Devils Advocate cap for a comment.
    TPM and OWS are two different movements and not just from a political idealism point.Tactics,posture,goals and the attraction to entities in the periphery are definite tick marks on any credible list.

    Now all hyperbole aside anyone who thinks either movement has had zero impact isn’t being logical or honest.Anyone who thinks either movement hasn’t been significantly co-opted is also fooling themselves.

  • 146. poolman  |  June 15, 2012 at 10:20 pm

    Vets are getting pissed off at the rabbit.

    In a sea of idiots, some always rise to the top, Magilla. Really it comes down to whose idiot. Some are left without a pot to piss in. Life is not in balance, watch your step.

  • 147. Alfie  |  June 15, 2012 at 10:20 pm

    @ Rutherford from two of my earlier comments the answers are Sunni and Mali.

  • 148. Alfie  |  June 15, 2012 at 10:29 pm

    I’ve worked in Dedham Ma,site of the bunny controversy and I can readily attest that comment 146 appears based in ignorance.Make a real point pm.

  • 149. poolman  |  June 15, 2012 at 10:44 pm

    Alfie, I agree 100 percent with 145.

    There, we can agree. Is that compromise or common ground? Since all is common ground and we come from the earth, we should agree on some common things, I think. It’s when we possess and squeeze we rob each other.

    Unless we place different values on different human lives. I suspect we do. Some, anyway. It does play out that way. Plenty have told of it.

    The Bilderberg folks are either the creme de la creme or their right hand men. You think they value all human life? You think their secretive meetings and privacy is benefiting the average American? They aren’t America, but they own it. Hell, they’re trying to squeeze more profit out of it. Sell the national parks and wilderness areas. Mine the shit out of it now. Can all organized labor.

    Ponzi scheme is almost played out.

    Everyone notice the Cash for Gold stores everywhere? They are all over with the people holding the signs at intersections. Preying on the hungry. They pay like 17 to 27 percent of the current value of gold. And with a check. Not cash. Supposedly it takes several days to get the check. Think anyone is being taken?

    Lazy Americans. That’s what they’ve bred. Can’t live without the beast.

  • 150. dead rabbit  |  June 16, 2012 at 12:27 am

    If the Rutherford Lawson blog was an old west saloon, I would knock poolman off his stool so hard his teeth would rain down upon the bar. I would then duel anyone of you motherfuckers who had a problem with it.

  • 151. El Tigre  |  June 16, 2012 at 12:27 am

    “Words have meaning. I would think an attorney above anyone else would know that.”

    Still at it I see. :roll:

    Nagic’s words and meaning are obvious to everyone. You pretending otherwise is silly.

    R, for someone that was told he would make a good lawyer years ago, I am surprised you haven’t realized you were lied to.

    Give it a rest my friend.

  • 152. Tex Taylor  |  June 16, 2012 at 12:33 am

    Alfie, seldom do I disagree with you. But this statement?

    who thinks either movement has had zero impact isn’t being logical or honest.Anyone who thinks either movement hasn’t been significantly co-opted is also fooling themselves.

    It is obvious that the Tea Party is dominating national politics. It along with Barack Obama’s gross incompetence changed the national and state landscape less than two years ago. To compare some anarchist, criminal, George Soros/SEIU financed outfit like OWS to the Tea Party, is frankly insulting to the intelligence.

    Sorry, but if the Tea Party is the U.S., OWS is Greece.

    What impact do you believe OWS has had, besides maybe demonstrating the most unseeming side of the disenfranchised, perpetual victim, thug, and thousands of loons like Poolman?

  • 153. Tex Taylor  |  June 16, 2012 at 12:38 am

    I would then duel anyone of you motherfuckers who had a problem with it.

    No need to duel. I’d tie a noose around Poolman’s neck after you knocked his teeth out, and drag him through the cactus patch riding on the fastest horse, laughing hysterically while doing so.

    Poolman would look like Raggedy Annie when I brought him back and dumped him in the trough, toothless.

    That’s almost orgasmic to think about, isn’t it?

  • 154. El Tigre  |  June 16, 2012 at 12:51 am

    Alfie, I was asking myself the same question posed by Tex. I didn’t come up with anything meaningful or positive.

    What impact?

  • 155. Rutherford  |  June 16, 2012 at 1:57 am

    Devil’s advocate or not, thanks Alfie for the comment. As usual you bring reason to the table.

  • 156. Rutherford  |  June 16, 2012 at 2:01 am

    I would then duel anyone of you motherfuckers who had a problem with it.

    Uh oh, Rabbit, you’re starting to sound like old Zell Miller.

  • 157. Rutherford  |  June 16, 2012 at 2:05 am

    Nagic’s words and meaning are obvious to everyone.

    Yes, they were obvious to everyone who speaks the English language and he said OWS changed nothing but the crime rate. He was wrong. And I won’t “give it a rest” so long as folks talk in the extreme and then call me a bitch for calling them on it.

  • 158. Rutherford  |  June 16, 2012 at 2:08 am

    Tex and Tigre, don’t let your underwear bunch up. Remember Alfie was just saying he was playing devil’s advocate. ;-)

  • 159. Rutherford  |  June 16, 2012 at 2:12 am

    Well gang, this concludes my broadcasting day. It was my birthday. I turned a young 51. (Tex stop laughing. :-) ) We ate at a Mexican restaurant so I’m sure to be digestively miserable tomorrow. My wife gave me a disgusting e-book of liberal propaganda. Oh the humanity.

    Speaking of Mexican, I’m surprised none of you chimed in on Obama’s opportunistic politically motivated pandering laudable Presidential decree allowing young “illegals” two years to get their affairs in order. ;-)

  • 160. nagic  |  June 16, 2012 at 2:53 am

    Maybe it is just pure ignorance. After all that he still cant/wont step up. Just no fixing that kind of stupid.

    Where I come from, men who rape 14 year olds, or deal drugs in front of 6 year olds, or gang rape women, or use children as human shields, or pimping their teen daughter to attract more people to protest, or murder, we like to call them criminals. We dont have to be asked twice to speak out against them, certainly not three times. I find your support disturbing.

    Lets call this horse beaten, and you exposed.

  • 161. PFesser  |  June 16, 2012 at 7:34 am

    “You are still thinking they are using a pancake theory to explain what happened to the towers. If you actually were up to speed (no pun intended), NIST discarded that theory early in their research.”

    I watched them fall as it happened. Pancake appears to be exactly what they did. There are videos everywhere; you do YOUR homework; am well-satisfied that I know what happened, and don’t recommend anyone waste any more time chasing crackpot theories.

    For the most part both towers fell inside their own footprints. I had an explosives course when I was in mining engineering, and have done or watched a fair amount of shooting on strip mines and construction sites. I can think of no way whatsoever for a building to collapse the way they did via explosives, unless the building was prepared for months, with critical girders cut, load-bearing walls removed, and explosives on floor after floor. How would you do that without anyone noticing?

    I have to tell you, PoolDude; it is not just Rutherford who is baffling sometimes.

  • 162. PFesser  |  June 16, 2012 at 7:51 am

    As for theories about whether beams went up or down or sideways – utter rubbage. That kind of energy released in utter chaos could – and certainly WOULD cause interactions you could never even broadly characterize. Pancaking floors should slow down and stop? Really? How does that happen with every floor adding its weight to the one above?

    Sorry – this is getting nauseating. Count me out.

    On another front: Dateline Lafayette, LA. Just enjoyed three days with my old mentor from residency days. Still controversial; still brilliant. Just watched him place clotting devices in a brain aneurysm and save the lady’s life. There IS some good in this world still.

  • 163. Alfie  |  June 16, 2012 at 8:16 am

    @Tex and ET I don’t necessarily compare the two in fact I tried to distinguish them as two distinct and different types of creatures in the opener of my # 145. Also please don’t read me as saying OWS et al are a positive.That said though….
    I think the OWS movement reignited a concept for a generation. I also think they served as a test balloon for the always present socialist counter culture that has existed in the USA since the 1800′s. (think Haymarket & Debs for two previous “floats”) I think they did as Rutherford says & upped the volume on the discussion of “economic disparities”. I don’t think they are noble in their action/purpose but again those on the periphery,in the wake are moved to act and that is indeed traceable to the initial movement and thats a definite impact.
    No,seriously I believe OWS has had an impact other than arrests of their members. I believe they have empowered and inspired folks from the entire left spectrum to believe action not just words is needed for their cause and I think Trumka and the AFL/CIO thing is proof to that.

  • 164. Alfie  |  June 16, 2012 at 8:18 am

    @ Rutherford fwiw I found Obamas super selective amnesty action to be a disgrace and put near an impeachable offense.

  • 165. James  |  June 16, 2012 at 8:24 am

    I taped the Today Show’s attack from before the second plane hit the building to until the tape filled because I had to be gone.

    The buildings’ collapse was accelerating down as Pfessor described.

    Our children’s birthdays were a year and two days apart by design so my wife could continue to teach in the fall. My mother cared for them during the autumn days, though they sometimes rode in the combine or tractor with my father or me. The ear protectors seemed to be bigger than they were.

    I was primary caregiver during the winter. Every day was “Take Your Child to Work Day.” My wife taught them at school when they were teenagers. She said I had the better deal.

  • 166. El Tigre  |  June 16, 2012 at 8:32 am

    R, Happy Belated Birthday. Just celebrated mine too. So we’ve got one thing in common.

  • 167. El Tigre  |  June 16, 2012 at 8:50 am

    “And I won’t “give it a rest” so long as folks talk in the extreme and then call me a bitch for calling them on it.”

    Okay R. Keep up with it then.

    Nagic makes his point. You do avoid a the real issue like no one else I know by focusing a word or line then ranting about it, like here. I

    I remember going around and around until you finally admitted you misunderstood the definition of “disdain.”

    Same thing with your weird-ass comments about my impressions of Sharpton — until you went back and re-read what I actually said as opposed to what you had imagined.

    We all suffered through the dark days of your Giffords episode. The same devices used.

    You are defensively arguing with me that “words mean what they say.” I don’t know Nagic and am not a cheerleader. And I do see he’s looking for a fight with you on a variety of topics.

    But Good Lord Man! You are doing EXACTLY what he’s accusing you of while the discussion of OWS and Tea Part progresses by others.

  • 168. El Tigre  |  June 16, 2012 at 9:01 am

    The amnesty thing is a patently unconstitutional disgrace. and designed to be recognized as such to create a campaign issue nonetheless. The latest contrived ethical conflict look to me like the final bastion of a doomed presidency.

  • 169. El Tigre  |  June 16, 2012 at 9:16 am

    Alfie, I think you’re too generous. I don’t see a design, and in event as a “test balloon” OWS failed — not just in imagery. It’s apolitical objectives and methods were really meaningless.

    The discussion of economic disparity has been ever present. OWS was just a directionless temper tantrum

  • 170. Alfie  |  June 16, 2012 at 9:29 am

    Alfie, I think you’re too generous.

    What can I say…I’m a giver. lol

  • 171. Raji  |  June 16, 2012 at 9:50 am

    WOW! I now see why Noah/Nagic/Anonoymous was banned at M&H. I did a little research for you Rutherford and found the following request to Matthew, moderator at M&H.

    “I will offer up a truce. I will treat your mother and friend with greater respect, but still reserve the right to vehemently disagree with them. I will use greater diplomacy in my interaction with others on here and keep the tone of my post at a more civil level in exchange for the ability to post unhindered. I will also stick to one name.

    Or we can just do this endless dance if you prefer. As this past year or so has shown I have nothing but empty time on my hand. I would prefer the former but happy to live with that latter. If additional conditions are needed feel free to present them. I wont bother you with another request should you ignore or decline. Smile to agree. Eye roll to decline.”

  • 172. Alfie  |  June 16, 2012 at 9:58 am

    @ El Tigre:
    It’s apolitical objectives and methods were really meaningless.
    (emphasis by Alfie)
    That aroused my curiosity. What about OWS was apolitical?

  • 173. nagic  |  June 16, 2012 at 10:00 am

    The discussion of economic disparity has been ever present. OWS was just a directionless temper tantrum.

    This sums up OWS for me. A bunch of people went out and raged. Some knew why, others didn’t. There were puppets and puppeteers. The only thing these events did successfully was to gather a lot of people in a lot of different places. But concerts do this every years, so really nothing significant transpired, other than the aforementioned crimes.

  • 174. El Tigre  |  June 16, 2012 at 10:11 am

    Alfie, its rejection of politicians, both parties and political machinery. The efforts to co-opt largely failed. OWS made a direct attack on business. Its “members” weren’t sitting on the steps of congress, running a candidate or even engaging the politicians. It did not seek political redress for its so-called wide-spread economic/societal grievances. OWS was not just different, it was the antithesis of the TP.

  • 175. Alfie  |  June 16, 2012 at 10:11 am

    Sincere blather to follow:
    @deadrabbit Happy Fathers Day. I once joked you were living a near Job like existence and I still think it holds. Best wishes to you and yours on the day and beyond.
    @El tigre. Happy Fathers Day to you too.Enjoying the discussions thx.
    @poolman…what the hell happy f-day to you too as I seem to remember you’ve stated you have at least one now adult offspring .
    @Tex. Happy fathers Day to you man. I don’t mind when we disagree. A special shout out to you as you are a dad who is dealing with college tuition. When people bemoan your style and call for others to reprimand you I always wanted to say something. Good a time as any.
    I apply what I call the bumper sticker test to many,you included. In your case if someone broke down in front of your house with one of those “coexist” bumper stickers I firmly believe you’d allow the person use of your phone to call AAA. In contrast I always felt if one broke down in front of a certain Bartlesville OK resident with lets say a Palin sticker he’d pee himself laughing at the persons despair.
    @Rutherford. Happy Fathers Day dear host. Although you being a cat person made me cry a little I’ll still wish you well.
    Happy Fathers Day to any other folks here that it applies. No slight intended just had a few thoughts weighing on me I had to purge.
    I have to go recharge my manliness now,have a great weekend everyone if I don’t get around.
    Alfie

  • 176. Alfie  |  June 16, 2012 at 10:13 am

    @173 and to a lesser degree #174
    You really believe the spirit behind OWS has vanished?
    More so @ ET 174….anarchy is very political in my book as is radical socialism.

  • 177. El Tigre  |  June 16, 2012 at 10:26 am

    Alfie, please explain. I find your comment re: anarchy and radical socialism a contradiction at least in this case. There was not a call to tear down the political structures to achieve their objectives — well other than a rally to confiscate private property counts (and I don’t think it does).

  • 178. poolman  |  June 16, 2012 at 10:34 am

    Apparently the virtual dog ate your homework assignment, PFesser.

    As a pilot, I would think you understand the structure of aircraft better than most. Planes generally lose wings or tail sections on impact with denser building structures or the solid earth.

    Normally, they don’t slice through and disappear entirely.

    It isn’t just my theory. Anyone with a clear and functioning brain able to dispute this video?

  • 179. poolman  |  June 16, 2012 at 11:02 am

    Of course, very persuasive group think has to be recognized first. Most don’t want to stand out from the herd…

  • 180. Alfie  |  June 16, 2012 at 11:32 am

    @ ET I sincerely don’t understand what you’re saying so I’m literally just taking a stab at it here.

    OWS was making a statement and not in a manner unlike those I alluded to earlier (Haymarket & Debs) I’ll also add Father Coughlin.
    I never said OWS was trying to act within the “system”,I simply don’t agree that acting outside or outright against the system is in any way apolitical.

  • 181. poolman  |  June 16, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    CAPE CANAVERAL, Florida (Reuters) – The U.S. military’s unmanned X-37B robotic space shuttle returned from orbit at 5:48 a.m. in California (1248 GMT)from a secretive 15-month test flight, Air Force officials said on Saturday.

    The miniature space plane, also known as Orbital Test Vehicle-2, or OTV-2, touched down at California’s Vandenberg Air Force Base, 130 miles northwest of Los Angeles. It was only the second U.S. vehicle to make an autonomous runway landing from space.

    “With the retirement of the space shuttle fleet, the X-37B OTV program brings a singular capability to space technology development,” said Lieutenant Colonel Tom McIntyre, X-37B program manager. “The return capability allows the Air Force to test new technologies without the same risk commitment faced by other programs. We’re proud of the entire team’s successful efforts to bring this mission to an outstanding conclusion.”

    The military’s first X-37B debuted in 2010 and autonomously landed at Vandenberg after 224 days in space. The former Soviet Union’s Buran space shuttle, which made a single spaceflight in 1988, was the first ship to make an autonomous landing from orbit.

    http://news.yahoo.com/secret-military-mini-shuttle-lands-california-151059578.html

    The military will not disclose what OTV-2 was doing during its 15 months in orbit, but a third mission already is on the calendar for launch this fall. OTV-2 blasted off aboard an unmanned Atlas 5 rocket from Cape Canaveral Air Force Station on March 5, 2010.

    [...]

    Rather than hydrogen-oxygen fuel cells like the orbiters, the X-37Bs are powered by gallium arsenide solar cells with lithium-ion batteries. The vehicles were designed to stay in orbit for up to 270 days. OTV-2 surpassed that milestone by 199 days.

    Space drones that fly virtually forever. Awesome shit!
    Leave it to the AF to develop and utilize green energy in space. Star wars, man. The gipper would be so proud.

  • 182. nagic  |  June 16, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    Raji
    Think what you will…of what you posted there….80% of the first paragraph was mine…the second was written for me and if memory serves there was a 3rd paragraph about the kitchen group..all of which was then posted to the public at large. The reason for my constant name changes was because Matt was rewriting all my posts.

    If Rutherford wants to ban me because I called him on his BS..go for it. I am not about to blow sunshine up his arse for the privilege of posting.

  • 183. muffy  |  June 16, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    “If the Rutherford Lawson blog was an old west saloon I would…
    :lol:

    If the RL Blog was a roller derby rink I would whip poolman into the rails, then I would power slide into him and jam my skate into his neck. Then I would throw him on the roof of my car and drive him deep into an Appalacian bog and screech to a stop so that he rolls off into a soup of quicksand.

  • 184. muffy  |  June 16, 2012 at 1:41 pm

    Sweet comment Alfie. Happy Dad’s Day to you and the rest of the papas.

  • 185. Tex Taylor  |  June 16, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    Alfie, there are disagreements and then discussions. With a good guy like you, I have discussions even in disagreement. Reasoned, rational, good guy. Actually, I generally would do the same with Rutherford too, but it is so fun to nail his foot to the floor and watch him wobble around in circles while he chews on me, my bad half almost always wins out.

    Yeah, I’d let the Coexist gal or guy use my phone. Most of them I find such sad sacks, I can’t even get my dander up about them. Wished they didn’t vote. :twisted:

    Matter of fact, edged a tatted woman’s lawn this week with a first born named “Pagan” – poor kid. To each their own, but why would a mother do something like that? I know I’m old fashioned and traditional, but good grief.

    My wife chewed my ass last night for asking wife, “Why didn’t she just name the kid Lucifer and be done with it?”

    Pfesser would have laughed his ass of at my house if he had been a fly on the wall and heard the knock down, drag out argument I had with incredibly bright, eldest daughter last week over ‘evolution.’ I think I could hear his voice ringing in my ears while the debate ensued.

  • 186. Tex Taylor  |  June 16, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    If the RL Blog was a roller derby rink I would whip poolman into the rails, then I would power slide into him and jam my skate into his neck.

    :lol: :lol: You sure your name isn’t Tuffy? I had always pictured this sweet, pretty Catholic girl sitting at her desk typing amongst a bunch of wolves. Hang around long enough, and I nominate you as Alpha.

  • 187. muffy  |  June 16, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    If poolman ever disappears there’s going to be a lot of questions for Rutherford.

    PS…Sometimes I can’t control my inner roller derby queen, Tex. :lol:

  • 188. muffy  |  June 16, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    “…named “Pagan” …”

    No.

    You should have seen my doubletake when one of the neighborhood moms called out for her son “Adonis.” “

  • 189. poolman  |  June 16, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    I do tend to bring out the emotions. :grin: By the way, Muffy, my eldest is actually one of the top people in the AZRD local division.

    John Lennon – Gimme Some Truth

    Im sick and tired of hearing things
    From uptight, short-sighted, narrow-minded hypocritics
    All I want is the truth
    Just gimme some truth
    Ive had enough of reading things
    By neurotic, psychotic, pig-headed politicians
    All I want is the truth
    Just gimme some truth

    No short-haired, yellow-bellied, son of tricky dicky
    Is gonna mother hubbard soft soap me
    With just a pocketful of hope
    Money for dope
    Money for rope

    No short-haired, yellow-bellied, son of tricky dicky
    Is gonna mother hubbard soft soap me
    With just a pocketful of soap
    Money for dope
    Money for rope

    Im sick to death of seeing things
    From tight-lipped, condescending, mamas little chauvinists
    All I want is the truth
    Just gimme some truth now

    Ive had enough of watching scenes
    Of schizophrenic, ego-centric, paranoiac, prima-donnas
    All I want is the truth now
    Just gimme some truth

    No short-haired, yellow-bellied, son of tricky dicky
    Is gonna mother hubbard soft soap me
    With just a pocketful of soap
    Its money for dope
    Money for rope

    Ah, Im sick and tired of hearing things
    From uptight, short-sighted, narrow-minded hypocrites
    All I want is the truth now
    Just gimme some truth now

    Ive had enough of reading things
    By neurotic, psychotic, pig-headed politicians
    All I want is the truth now
    Just gimme some truth now

    All I want is the truth now
    Just gimme some truth now
    All I want is the truth
    Just gimme some truth
    All I want is the truth
    Just gimme some truth

  • 190. dead rabbit  |  June 16, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    Muffy made me laugh out loud.

  • 191. El Tigre  |  June 16, 2012 at 2:25 pm

    Then I we’re missing each other in both directions Alfie.
    I suspect it’s semantics (arrrgh) and perhaps I will be persuaded to your line of thinking. To explain myself, perhaps mistaken, one step at a time:

    OWS did not identify itself as anarchist.

    It did not identify itself as socialist. In fact, it didn’t explicitly identify itself as anti-capitalist – although clearly that was by and large an underlying strain.

    It identified itself as the economically oppressed “99%” (or, what sounded more to me like the “not economically advantaged 1%”).

    Now, you are far more well-versed political history than me. Light-years. And here’s what I know of the examples that you offered as examples/analogies of a political movement purely off of feel, not true understanding:

    Haymarket I assume you are referring to the NY or Chicago event that started as a labor/union protests, then strike, then violent bombing and chaos set in motion by an anarchists bombing by some group. I understand Haymarket to have been a single event caused by the convergence of two different groups, each with developed agendas, i.e. labor and anarchism. Each appealing to opposing to a different authority. An uprising, but not a unified and sustained effort. The labor side ultimately effectuated change to meet its objectives, the anarchists on to something new without a meaningful destruction of the political structure.

    If you were referring to Eugene Debs, he had a decidedly political agenda, affiliation (Dem then Socialist) and of course represented organized labor.

    I had to look up Father Coughlin. From what I read he was a political commentator, then reformist with a populist, social fairness platform upon which he founded a movement intended to become a political party.

    Now, I do not view OWS, while having a social fairness message, as akin organized labor (in fact in many ways “non-labor”) nor a self-identified party seeking reform or destruction of political body. As I said, I view it as a temper tantrum

    However, a significant difference to me is the appeal to the “private” confiscation and distribution of wealth, debt forgiveness etc. Admittedly, private property rights are a creature of the state (creation and enforcement). But I see OWS as little more than protests aimed at civil disruption for its own sake as its core with a loosely defined opponent as “the rich” who should “give it back.” From whom and to whom being a vague concept incapable of meaningful definition. In any event not the government and therefore apolitical in its lack of ultimate direction towards the structure or affairs of government, politics, or the state.

    Alfie, if you consider all “movements” and “protests” by definition “political” in that they seek social change, then I concede to your point without conceding to my own.

    I hope I haven’t made a confusing mess of the explanation. I am taking a stab at what you said as well.

  • 192. El Tigre  |  June 16, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    If this were a saloon, I would just shoot Poolman, finish my drink, and leave the tab on his chest.

  • 193. El Tigre  |  June 16, 2012 at 3:07 pm

    Alfie, btw, thanls for the Father’s Day shout out. Back at ya.

  • 194. Alfie  |  June 16, 2012 at 3:47 pm

    @El Tigre you’re spot on for the most part and I accept where it is I that draws a line or two a tad longer along the paper than you.
    As I asked magic re “spirit of OWS”. I think that is something real and something worth be conscious of whether one is for or against OWS.
    Just to round some things out re my examples and the spirit premise.
    Haymarket is indeed the Chicago thing. I feel its contextual history,demographics and economic turning point kind of thing relates well to the OWS and is an example of history trying to talk to us.
    With Mr. Debs you are again correct;however, if we expand it a little I think we have to admit that there was clearly a disorganized populism that he drew collective support from even if “united” it failed to be behind him. (kind of hate that sentence but) Isolationists,socialists and many other disaffected elements could get into Debs message. I think the disconnected effed up populism that got into OWS mirrors that era. It is to be noted that that populism waned even though some of it squarely faced off the sedition charges.
    Father Coughlin was how you called him and somewhat more. Louisiana Long,Coughlin and FDR made for interesting politics. The vast social turmoil going on back then was/is fascinating to me.So OWS triggered images to me of how I think it must have been when townsfolk listened to the radio and thought “free checks” to widows and the like was a duty,a noble right etc etc. while others obviously were like “WTF”???
    Bottom line I think we have different positions and that some nuance and semantics are surely afoot too,but I can also say I understand you better now,hope I’ve helped my self too.

  • 195. Rutherford  |  June 16, 2012 at 3:47 pm

    Noah, the only thing exposed is your dumb fat ass. You are a drama queen, a rank propagandist (to borrow a phrase from Tex) and an intellectual liar, the last two of which you accuse me of.

    I’m off to the movies. More later.

  • 196. nagic  |  June 16, 2012 at 4:22 pm

    Whatever Rutherford. I proved my point. You couldn’t deal with it, so you comment on my ass then ran away. No one cares if you are going to the movies, or spending all your time on google trying to save your ass the humiliation I delivered you.

    I was sold a false bill of goods on you. I was told you were different than the cackle of hags at fat grannies. I, am letting You, off the hook.,so the last word is yours. Man up or continue to punk out, I really do not care.

  • 197. James  |  June 16, 2012 at 4:29 pm

    I agree with Alfie that the OWs demonstrations might have been a trial balloon.

    The early populist movement grew from legitimate concerns. Farmers and the working class were being exploited. William Jennings Bryan in addition to Eugene Debs capitalized on the Populist movement. The Omaha Platform was one of the first to suggest Social Security years before its time.

    Mario Rubio suggested something similar to Obama’s so called aministy. Obama’s political move will foster many unintended consequences. I don’t think those young people should be deported. They should be given the chance to earn their citizenship, but Obama’s way has just made competition for a limited number of jobs even greater, especially among minorities like blacks who have suffered disproportionatly during our hard times.

  • 198. PFesser  |  June 16, 2012 at 4:29 pm

    I swear this is my last comment on this stuff.

    “Apparently the virtual dog ate your homework assignment, PFesser.”

    I don’t do homework assignments, Poolman; I give them.

    “As a pilot, I would think you understand the structure of aircraft better than most.”

    Having built a hang glider from plans, a second from a kit (that I later added a snowmobile engine to and flew as an ultralight – my own design), having built an aeroplane that I flew ten years, and having about twenty years’ experience doing my own maintenance on a certificated aeroplane, that might or might not be true, but why would you think that makes one an expert at the high-speed destruction of same? Hint – it doesn’t.

    “Planes generally lose wings or tail sections on impact with denser building structures or the solid earth.”

    At slow speeds, yes. At 600 knots, they disintegrate. (d-i-s-i-n-t-e-g-r-a-t-e) (See E = 1/2mV^2). Again, see MythBusters’ rocket sled episode.

    “Normally, they don’t slice through and disappear entirely.”

    I agree. See “disintegrate,” as above.

    “It isn’t just my theory.”

    Yes it is.

    “Anyone with a clear and functioning brain able to dispute this video?”

    It’s not a video. It is an artist’s rendering of what is in his head. It exists nowhere else.

    These days it is trivial to animate any fantasy you want. Want to see my drawing of the unicorn and the skittles on my lawn? Quite striking, but it doesn’t make them real, (although they are).

  • 199. poolman  |  June 16, 2012 at 4:34 pm

    It’s not a video. It is an artist’s rendering of what is in his head. It exists nowhere else.

    WTF???

  • 200. PFesser  |  June 16, 2012 at 4:45 pm

    Here you go. I SWEAR this is the last comment this time.

    Interestingly, the rocket sled is going about 560 knots. It is also comprised of 1″ steel plate, not lightweight aircraft aluminum.

    Case closed. Sorry.

  • 201. poolman  |  June 16, 2012 at 5:02 pm

    Interestingly, the rocket sled is going about 560 knots. It is also comprised of 1″ steel plate, not lightweight aircraft aluminum.

    Impressive. And I have seen that before. But all the pieces were still there and identifiable in the mythbuster’s piece. Lightweight aircraft aluminum would still be lightweight aircraft aluminum. It generally cannot penetrate 1″ steel beams and girders. Except, of course, in the Wonderful World of Disney.

    Disintegrate, nah. Distorted, yeah totally. No fusion either.

  • 202. Alfie  |  June 16, 2012 at 5:18 pm

    Dear Poolman,
    I am writing to ask you to seriously consider to adopt the agree to disagree protocol regards yeti,9/11,USS Liberty,JFK,Paul Wellstone, and assorted other topics.
    In all seriousness you can’t possibly believe any of the usual suspects found in these here parts will EVER be persuaded to your P.O.V. I would also think you’d accept the futility of having anything resembling dialog since neither side accepts the others sources.
    Please note I’m not castrating your comment possibilities. For my part I’m wide open to Operation Mongoose and Northwoods conversation within the bounds of dialog. Champion RP to your hearts content. Question authority,hell I for one would love to see you call out the present POTUS for a number of things.
    Thanks
    Alfie

  • 203. poolman  |  June 16, 2012 at 5:56 pm

    Alfie,

    Nothing ever is solved when it is swept under the rug. Protocols are for maintaining a status quo. When the status quo isn’t working, it’s time to examine why. It isn’t usually comfortable and may cause controversy, but it is the only way to better ourselves.

    When you go to a doctor, the first thing he does is check your vitals and tries to diagnose what ails you. Then he sets to improve your health and alleviate your ailments.

    When you turn your business over to a management firm, the first thing they do is assess your financial health and market impact, then put a plan together to improve your bottom line.

    When you hire a contractor, the first thing he does is assess your needs and then provides plans and costs by which to achieve it.

    Unless all cards are on the table and faced up, we will never get a fair and equitable solution to what provides us with the greatest liberty and the most successful pursuit of happiness.

    Ron Paul has done plenty to get the message out, though the ‘establishment’ does everything in its power to quell the message.

    I have called out our POTUS numerous times. I am very anti-war and he is the most warlike president we have had in my lifetime. If it isn’t him, it’s what controls him.

    War is a total failure of the human experiment, and therefore I will not stop trying to stop it. I wholly believe the PTB planned and executed the latest Pearl Harbor event and from that shock and awe fear enacted the reversal of citizens’ rights and liberty, written well in advance by the PTB.

    This is a revolution. It may not be a conventional one, but it is a movement with serious change its intended goal. I understand there is certain rationale among different segments of society. I’m also very attuned to coercion and persuasion techniques.

    The real battleground is the mind. The PTB have known that all along.

  • 204. dead rabbit  |  June 16, 2012 at 7:08 pm

    You are a massive tool.

  • 205. El Tigre  |  June 16, 2012 at 8:05 pm

    “I don’t do homework assignments, Poolman; I give them.”

    Love it. :lol:

  • 206. Rutherford  |  June 16, 2012 at 8:56 pm

    fwiw I found Obamas super selective amnesty action to be a disgrace and put near an impeachable offense.

    Impeachable? Alfie, didn’t Reagan do something damn similar in the 1980′s? Was it impeachable then?

    P.S. Don’t get me wrong. I fully understand how this executive order to be construed as political gamesmanship … but impeachable … that to me goes a bit far.

  • 207. Rutherford  |  June 16, 2012 at 9:00 pm

    R, Happy Belated Birthday. Just celebrated mine too. So we’ve got one thing in common.

    Thanks Tigre. I wonder if the powers that be said on June 15, “let there be a yin and a yang.” :-) Of course that would imply you’re 51 too and I’m pretty sure you’re younger.

  • 208. El Tigre  |  June 16, 2012 at 9:21 pm

    R, I’m not 51, but I’m hot on your heels.

    Funny thing is though, there’s something more coincidental that I can’t mention without making my identity too easy to ascertain (if anyone ever gave a rat’s ass). For your amusement, I’ll shoot you an email.

  • 209. Alfie  |  June 16, 2012 at 9:37 pm

    Impeachable? Alfie, didn’t Reagan do something damn similar in the 1980′s? Was it impeachable then?
    No, Reagan signed an actual law.
    I fully understand how this executive order to be construed as political gamesmanship
    That’s part of what makes it a disgrace for me.It is shameless gamesmanship,it’s not a construe kind of thing.
    Rutherford I’ve awarded myself a few ObamaPails ™ so I’m more than entitled to toss the “I” word about regards this pretty shameful act. i’ll see it and raise you the security leaks stuff. Too much 4 me dude.
    I’ll tell you what though,I’ll pass on impeachment and go with him being defeated in November instead.

  • 210. El Tigre  |  June 16, 2012 at 9:50 pm

    R, doing this by executive order is beyond the pale. And Alfie’s right, the political gamesmanship is so transparent it should bother the shit out of anyone. So transparent in fact that I think it backfires big time.

  • 211. Rutherford  |  June 17, 2012 at 12:15 am

    I did a little research for you Rutherford

    LOL Thanks for the research Raji. Noah need not worry about using all sorts of different names here. While he pisses me off more than anyone in recent blogging memory, I have no intention of banning him.

    I hope he at least enjoys the camaraderie of his fellow conservatives cos he certainly has no common cause with the blog host. If he’s not happy, then coming here is just an exercise in masochism.

  • 212. Rutherford  |  June 17, 2012 at 12:22 am

    A bunch of people went out and raged.

    More mischaracterization unless of course “rage” doesn’t mean “rage” I’ve been criticized for actually holding Noah to account for the actual words he uses.

    I watched videos of the “assemblies” and I saw no rage. If anything, they tended to be quite funny with the “human megaphone” approach of the audience repeating whatever the speaker had to say.

    You see, while Noah was busy reading the police blotter there were actually peaceful gatherings going on. It is so interesting how we see what we want to see.

    I’ve evolved sufficiently to admit that the racists on display at Tea Party rallies were fodder for the liberal photographers. A lot of very decent people assembled at those rallies and as I’ve said before they managed to gain POLITICAL traction. Either that means they had influence OR they had powerful behind-the-scenes backing in the first place, so a place at the political table was inevitable.

  • 213. Rutherford  |  June 17, 2012 at 12:24 am

    It did not seek political redress for its so-called wide-spread economic/societal grievances.

    I think this is true. They wanted to “start over” vs change what was already in place. This may have been the influence of some of the anarchists that were involved in the movement. It was definitely one of their mistakes. You can’t toss out what you’ve got and start over in this complicated an environment. You have to change what you’ve got.

  • 214. Rutherford  |  June 17, 2012 at 12:29 am

    Thanks for the Father’s day wishes Alfie. I get the short end of the stick because school is in session for Mother’s day so my kid always ends up doing some school project for Mommy. By the time my day comes around, there’s no school incentive for me to get squat. So tomorrow I’ll just be happy for a card and an acknowledgement that I exist. I’m still on her good side for introducing her to The Simpsons. :-)

  • 215. Rutherford  |  June 17, 2012 at 12:47 am

    The reason for my constant name changes was because Matt was rewriting all my posts.

    From personal experience I do believe Noah on this one. One of my posts was tampered with also at M&H.

    That may be one of the things that galls me the most about you Noah is you have the nerve to compare this place to M&H when none of their most reprehensible practices ever happens here.

  • 216. Rutherford  |  June 17, 2012 at 12:49 am

    Poolman, if I were you I’d be flattered to be the object of fantasies. Hey Muffy, do you ever fantasize about me? ;-) Nah don’t tell me …. I don’t want my wife kicking my ass. :-)

  • 217. Rutherford  |  June 17, 2012 at 12:51 am

    Tex, she really named the kid Pagan? This woman clearly did not want to have any children. :-)

  • 218. Rutherford  |  June 17, 2012 at 1:05 am

    I was sold a false bill of goods on you. I was told you were different than the cackle of hags at fat grannies.

    So sorry you were disappointed Noah. I get the feeling that happens to you a lot. Must suck to be you.

    P.S.

    No one cares if you are going to the movies

    Since this is more than just people snarking at each other about politics … many of us really like each other as much as “cyber-people” can … my going to the movies is as relevant as what any friend says to another about his daily activities. And since you are the newest person here, I really don’t think you’re in any position to state what everyone else here cares about.

    By the way folks …. more info you don’t “care” about … we saw Madagascar 3 in 3D. Can someone please tell me why we’re getting suckered into buying 3D glasses for an extra 3 bucks? Do you know just about every new kids movie is pulling this 3D scam? And you know full well no kid is gonna agree to see the 2D version if all her friends are seeing the 3D. I’m telling you if I could only come up with this many ways to take people’s money, I’d be a rich man. :neutral:

  • 219. Tex Taylor  |  June 17, 2012 at 1:15 am

    Pagan, “R”. I swear, the world has passed me by and somebody forgot to tell me about it. The gal is actually good looking – why she tattooed her arms and wears those funky ear things in her lobes that look like Zula, I have no idea. She’s got two more – all from different father’s I think. Ambrose (another boy) and Sadie, a cute little girl. The middle child’s grandparents bought them the house – weird story. The grandparent is a surgeon and wanted his grandson out of an apartment complex. My neighborhood is quickly changing, at not for the better I’m afraid. A bunch of elderly neighbors are retiring, don’t need the equity, move to these expensive retirement assisted places, and dump the home in this distressed market.

    If I had an extra million bucks, I’d go buy a home right across the street from Mr. Surgeon and put an rusted dryer in the front yard, with 37 pink flamingos, renting it to a bunch of meth heads.

    Happy Birthday to you and El Tigre too. 52 comes up for me very shortly. Hope you enjoyed the movie. My wife and I rented a real clunker this evening for $1.30 cents from RedBox – it wasn’t worth it.

    I sure am glad I didn’t pay $20.00 for the stuff that is produced anymore. I hear the Avengers is pretty good. Probably go see that with wifey while she’s home.

    P.S. – Just to prove how old I’m getting, I got very excited tonight about my Father’s Day. A Dyson sweeper! :lol: Shell out $600 bucks, and you get a sweeper that looks like bowling ball and sucks like a Poolman.

  • 220. Rutherford  |  June 17, 2012 at 1:21 am

    Well ya gotta hand it to Poolman, he is one persistent truther!

    Hey PF since you are the only one here with flight experience (I think) do answer me this. Isn’t it odd that the hijackers didn’t simply nose dive the plane into the roof of the Pentagon considering it was only about 3 or 4 stories tall? Didn’t it take a LOT more flying skill to glide the plane into the side of a low rise building and wasn’t there far more risk of hitting the ground and never reaching the intended target?

  • 221. Rutherford  |  June 17, 2012 at 1:30 am

    Alfie if the security leaks came from the White House and Obama knew then he has some serious ‘splainin’ to do.

    But I also saw a headline today (I think it was in the Times) saying we are doing “secret” covert spying in Africa. So I have to wonder what the hell qualifies as a secret nowadays?

    By the way, I stand corrected on the Reagan amnesty. I thought that was also by executive order. My bad.

  • 222. Rutherford  |  June 17, 2012 at 1:32 am

    Tigre, even liberal commentators have noted that Obama seems to be doling out “favors” to his various demographic constituencies to ensure their vote. First it was gays with his “statement”, now Hispanics with the amnesty move.

    Maybe this is what they call the Chicago Way? ;-)

  • 223. Rutherford  |  June 17, 2012 at 1:38 am

    I’ve always wanted one of those Dyson machines as they look like they really do the job and I love the commercials. But damn they’re expensive. When we needed a new vacuum cleaner last year I wanted a Dyson but after I got over the sticker shock, we made a more “sensible” purchase.

    Speaking of which, I heard on TV today that it currently costs about $87 per ticket to go to DisneyLand. That CANNOT be true, could it? I’ve never heard of an amusement park costing more than $30 a pop.

  • 224. nagic  |  June 17, 2012 at 1:43 am

    More mischaracterization unless of course “rage” doesn’t mean “rage” I’ve been criticized for actually holding Noah to account for the actual words he uses.

    Rutherford, I think, (like you do most things in life) you are over compensating. We get it…you were the victim. The word “only” vindicated you and you were obviously right…and everyone else was wrong. We get it…put it to bed kiddo.

    As for your disputing rage. Was there no rage when people were raped, murdered, when people and police were assaulted?

    Was this all a zen moment?

    Some more truth.

  • 225. Rutherford  |  June 17, 2012 at 1:44 am

    OK, I know I’m promoting lunacy here but before I go to bed one last question for Poolman. Let’s say for one moment that you’re right that a rocket hit the Pentagon and not a plane. Please answer me this. Where the hell did Flight 77 go? Why have we never seen any of its passengers walk this Earth since 9/11? Did it crash somewhere else?

  • 226. Rutherford  |  June 17, 2012 at 1:47 am

    OK, I lied (arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, I just saw Bill Whittle flash up on my screen as my screen refreshed! Noooooooooooo! No way to end a Saturday night!!!!!!!!!!! :shock:) one more comment before I go … this one completely whimsical and should give even the most cynical on the board a smile and a sense of wonder.

    Behold:

  • 227. dead rabbit  |  June 17, 2012 at 1:48 am

    I’m dreading going to those cartoon movies. I can’t stand even the good ones.

  • 228. nagic  |  June 17, 2012 at 1:48 am

    A member of the clergy goes to check out OWS for herself to see what it is really about, not what the media tells us.

    I understand this is underhanded using truth and logic….but here it is anyway. Time to wake up.

  • 229. nagic  |  June 17, 2012 at 2:25 am

    And as far as English lessons go….
    http://trollable.com/a-womans-guide-to-mans-english-173/

  • 230. James  |  June 17, 2012 at 8:14 am

    215 False James appeared on the blog too. He and false Noah had a long conversation. “I” described being abused as a child. IN that case, I don’t think it was an inside job–probably the work of one of the posters. At one time, Richard wrote that under accepted definition, most of the people attacking me were the trolls and not I.

    A year or so ago, Obama said he couldn’t do what he just did about amenisty. He said his duty is to enforce the laws.

    Another writer and the House have blamed Obama’s overly restrictive regulations on a medical drug shortage.

  • 231. James  |  June 17, 2012 at 8:25 am

    226 The Clay County fair in norhwest Iowa has something like this. The display continues to grow as the trains move from the modern world to the wild west and everything between. Elvis sings at a concert, and a crop duster sprays farm fields.

    That Hamburg project is amazing. I want to visit Germany to see it.

  • 232. PFesser  |  June 17, 2012 at 8:50 am

    “Hey PF since you are the only one here with flight experience (I think) do answer me this. Isn’t it odd that the hijackers didn’t simply nose dive the plane into the roof of the Pentagon considering it was only about 3 or 4 stories tall? Didn’t it take a LOT more flying skill to glide the plane into the side of a low rise building and wasn’t there far more risk of hitting the ground and never reaching the intended target?”

    Airliners are basically giant powered gliders; they are extremely efficient, having a very high glide ratio (lift/drag ratio). This is around 18/1 for the 757 – this means it goes forward as much as 18′ for every foot it goes down. Trying to dive it straight down without anything to limit your speed would result in an overspeed condition in seconds, with the wings departing the aircraft shortly thereafter. Basically you would become a lawn dart, which is very hard to steer.

    Dive bombers in WWII could dive straight down, but had dive brakes

    http://agapemodels.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/dive-flaps.jpg

    to limit their airspeed, and the pilots had the training required. Those kinds of things have never been tested in an airliner to my knowledge, and my surmise is that even deploying the landing gear and spoilers would not be enough to keep you from overspeeding.

    Interestingly, since all wings produce lift, the dive bombers actually had to dive a little past vertical, somewhat over on their backs, in order to get the plane to descend vertically.

  • 233. PFesser  |  June 17, 2012 at 9:02 am

    I guess I really didn’t answer your question, R.

    With the airplane rightside up, you just point it at whatever you want to hit. With the wings parallel to the ground, they hold the plane up and keep it from gathering up too much speed from gravity.

    If you point the nose way down it will either overspeed and break up, or the controls will push back so hard you can’t hold it and you will overshoot your target.

  • 234. James  |  June 17, 2012 at 9:20 am

    This is just my extrapolation from running a crash through my head. In addition to Pfessor’s explaination, hitting a building on the side would spread the damage. Tornadic winds can drive straws and other objects into the sides of houses and trees without destroying them.

  • 235. El Tigre  |  June 17, 2012 at 9:30 am

    That scripted German narration is really creepy.I was waiting for the “extermination” section or something.

    And there’s PF for “the creation of life” at 3:54.

  • 236. Alfie  |  June 17, 2012 at 9:49 am

    @ Tex 219
    I found something in that comment very thought provoking. In many parts of America and definitely per personal experience the Northeast there have been fits of what is termed “White Flight”. Although there has been a clear demographic angle to it there is also a pure financial/socio-economic aspect to it too.
    Anyway the tie in. I wonder with the state of the USA economy if we’re experiencing or about to experience a new type of “flight” and migration.
    Wouldn’t it kind of suck if the only way the housing market rebounds is by building gated communities? Wouldn’t it suck if communities all ready stressed but holding it together implode financially as they respond to further negatives in realty?
    Neighborhoods across the nation experience the dump and run thing Tex talks of and historically the response has been a grueling nightmare in many places.

  • 237. Alfie  |  June 17, 2012 at 10:27 am

    @ Rutherford and any of the other closet pro-GM folks that wander in….
    Isn’t the fact that GM is finally pushing leases for the Chevy Volt indicative to how effed up the corporation is to its core?

  • 238. James  |  June 17, 2012 at 10:52 am

    I think that new kind of flight is already happening. We in the Heartland are collecting refugees from states like California.
    Such migrations and “flight” are part of human history.

    The Perene Thesis held that empires like Rome die piecemeal with enclaves holding out for generations–rather like a body’s dying process.

    Our region would survive longer as a gated community with an alliance with Canada.

  • 239. poolman  |  June 17, 2012 at 10:58 am

    Happy Father’s Day to all the dads here.

    After a few cups of coffee I may be able to go back and watch the Whittle Bill that I scrolled by. Hopefully I will hear the message and not just the whine.

    That Wunderland is amazing. Styx’s Too Much Time on My Hands always runs in the back of my mind when I see that kind of stuff. My BIL is a model trainer. He’ll get a kick out of that.

    I am a persistent truther, Rutherford. You’re correct. People are in 2 courts on that subject. Once they ‘see the light’ and switch sides, it becomes obsessive. I don’t know any that have gone in the other direction. It’s like the first time a guy has sex. That becomes the be all and end all to your days. At least that is my experience. No turning back. Nothing’s the same. You know they say “the truth will set you free” and it does. But is doesn’t pertain to physical resrtaint.

  • 240. dead rabbit  |  June 17, 2012 at 11:30 am

    Happy Father’s Day everyone. It so much fun being a Dad, us fathers should buy our wives gifts on this day.

    Alfie, basically everyone I know who made the mistake of buying a modest house where I grew up lost 50 to 90 percent of the value of their home. My one buddy bought a house for 120 grand. Its worth 15. He is ensurfed. My sister in law bought for 170. Its worth 40. What’s really bad about a housing bust is how much it impedes social mobility. My friends and family have to go bankrupt in order to move and escape crime, bad schools or get a better job sokewhere else.

  • 241. dead rabbit  |  June 17, 2012 at 11:36 am

    The worst thing about it is the modest houses in the working class neighborhoods took the worst hit. The people who showed the most restraint in buying a home got fucked bad. There has been a little bounce back in the upper middle class areas around here. Not in my old hood. The icing on the cake? Blacks are moving in. And, sadly, we all know what happens when blacks move into distressed neighborhoods.

  • 242. dead rabbit  |  June 17, 2012 at 11:57 am

    Poolman should send pfessor a hundred bucks for the free class he was given. But, poolman would have to quit his little club. Fantasy over. He wouldn’t be exclusive or special anymore.

    The guy ignored everything pfessor plainly explained so that even us members of the moron club could understand.

    Poor poolman. Too many daddy issues. Too scary for him to admit Nanny couldn’t protect him on Spetember 11. Much better to have an evil daddy then no daddy at all. Plus, he gets to be in a club.

  • 243. Alfie  |  June 17, 2012 at 11:59 am

    Great “on the ground” insight there dead rabbit thank you. You do bring forth a picture I’m familiar with especially regards blacks and other minorities. It is a story of cycles. Especially in areas where the minorities are not true owners,where government is involved with either “ownership” or rent or where its a private rental issue the area tends to spiral down.
    Ironically one of the “cures” for this cycle is, depending where you stand in it, kind of a curse too: Gentrification.
    I brought this subject up for two reasons:
    I personally dread a truther video homage onslaught.
    As a homeowner, father, taxpayer, investor,history nut etc. I think I’m seeing something roll out here and I’m wondering if I need a seatbelt,a parachute or a visa to Canada.

  • 244. dead rabbit  |  June 17, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    Oh yeah, and it feels like the first time he had sex.

  • 245. James  |  June 17, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    Happy Fathers’ Day everyone, and happy belated birthdays.

    Poolman, you are afflicted with “immigrant syndrome.” Local Mexican, immigrants feel the same as you do, only they are high on America. They also tend to work harder than the natives.

    One compromise for life in a depressed area is to keep the house and family at home while someone moves to where the jobs are. Several Mexican families maintain middle class lives at home while family members migrate up here for summer work.

    Icelandic people did the same near Winnipeg.

    Its too bad you aren’t closer to Williiston, North Dakota.

    dead rabbit, though, the black comment sounds racist, I know you mean it economicaly. Middle class blacks also engage in flight.

  • 246. Rutherford  |  June 17, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    I’m dreading going to those cartoon movies. I can’t stand even the good ones.

    Two things to cheer you up Rabbit. Some of the “good ones” really are good and provide some good laughs for the adults while the kids get it on a whole different level. Such was the case with “Pirates” which I took my daughter to see. I was completely and surprisingly entertained.

    Second, from what I am perceiving, no one and I mean no one goes to the movies anymore. I don’t know how these theaters stay in business. We went to see Madagascar 3 in only its second week of release and the theater was mostly empty. So the bright side is that you, Bronson, and Leo get essentially a private screening on a big friggin screen.

    It’s all good!!! :-)

  • 247. Alfie  |  June 17, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    I don’t know how these theaters stay in business.
    Friggin’ $30 hits at the concession stand is my guess.
    Interesting turn regards theaters in my area and most likely everyone else’s. We’ve recently had an uptick in new cinemas being built which include a section devoted to live shows. The NA variant around here are Showcase Cinemas with the section mentioned being called Showcase Live. These new places also offer at least one theater where they have awesome seats,no kids and wait staff.
    Innovation at work?

  • 248. poolman  |  June 17, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    Just buy the video for those animated movies. The kids want to see them over and over and over. Then they have it memorized. Watch it yourself too. They are filled with indoctrination. Some good, some…

    Developing minds want to know. Raising our kids is THE most important thing we have somehow left on back burner. It should be everyone’s individual number one priority.

    I know we are quick to rag on bad behavior. I guarantee it would improve if we trained our offspring better attended. Priorities.

    The mental part of sex, rabbit. Not the feel, not the grind. :roll:

    Okay, since you’re a touchie-feelie sex-on-the-brain sort… like riding a bike or swimming. Once you figure it out, you can always figure it out. A new level of knowledge. Climbing a ridge and getting a greater perspective. That is the gist. It is also like Pandora’s box. That isn’t meant sexually either, BTW.

    PFesser did not prove any point that I presented. I can still find all the pieces parts in his video, even though greatly distorted. Not so in mine. No pile driver existed either to smash said aluminum tonnage. This is how ‘we’ do things when we are interested in truth.

    Of course, we got Rummy doing a Freudian on that one.

  • 249. Alfie  |  June 17, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    Rodney King R.I.P……Thoughts?

  • 250. poolman  |  June 17, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    Drunk and drowned, too bad. Only 47.

    White men can’t jump. Black men can’t swim.

  • 251. James  |  June 17, 2012 at 4:16 pm

    Rodney King seemed like a decent man who suffered some bad breaks, but since I didn’t know him, I don’t have any strong feelings. I feel sad for his fiance and family.

    Our daughter’s college room mate’s small son drowned in a pool and the funeral was yesterday. Father’s Day will torment his parents for the rest of their lives.

  • 252. Rutherford  |  June 17, 2012 at 4:47 pm

    That scripted German narration is really creepy.I was waiting for the “extermination” section or something.

    LOL my heart really does go out to the modern day German. His country really screwed the pooch in the Nazi days and they may never live it down.

  • 253. poolman  |  June 17, 2012 at 4:49 pm

    That is sad, James. Waterproof these kids! Most of this planet is water. Too many drown. If you dunk them real early they figure it out. Hell, the first 9 months is entirely underwater. It’s a natural.

  • 254. Rutherford  |  June 17, 2012 at 4:51 pm

    Neighborhoods across the nation experience the dump and run thing Tex talks of and historically the response has been a grueling nightmare in many places.

    One of the reasons I was so thankful to sell my house was that if it got foreclosed, I would have been the first foreclosure in the neighborhood and they would have hated me for it. Would have sunk property values all over the place. I probably sold at a lower price than the neighbors would have liked but at least it didn’t get foreclosed.

  • 255. Rutherford  |  June 17, 2012 at 4:54 pm

    Maybe I’m just having a bad day but I watched Mitt Romney talk to Bob Schieffer and David Plouffe talk to David Gregory and I thought “what a f*cking joke”. It doesn’t matter who wins in November. DC is run by whoever pays the most to get their agenda passed. No POTUS election is gonna change that.

    If this mood keeps up, I’m gonna change this blog to a TV review blog and give up on politics altogether. :-(

  • 256. Rutherford  |  June 17, 2012 at 4:55 pm

    Isn’t the fact that GM is finally pushing leases for the Chevy Volt indicative to how effed up the corporation is to its core?

    I’m not sure why. Given that a car loses 50% of its value the minute you drive it off the lot, there are many folks who prefer leasing vehicles.

  • 257. Rutherford  |  June 17, 2012 at 4:58 pm

    Regarding Alfie’s question on “flight”, let’s face it … I am an example. The economics of Connecticut became too hostile to my family’s survival. We had to find a cheaper place to live.

  • 258. Rutherford  |  June 17, 2012 at 5:04 pm

    Blacks are moving in. And, sadly, we all know what happens when blacks move into distressed neighborhoods.

    I won’t address the consequences of the influx but Rabbit you do know why it’s happening right? With the housing prices so low, this is many black’s only shot at “the American dream” of owning a home.

  • 259. poolman  |  June 17, 2012 at 5:04 pm

  • 260. Rutherford  |  June 17, 2012 at 5:10 pm

    Middle class blacks also engage in flight.

    100% right James. Things are more often economic than strictly racial. When my black grandparents’ neighborhood started to go down hill in the early 70′s they got the f*ck out of there and moved way out on Long Island. I don’t think Rabbit was suggesting blacks can’t maintain a decent neighborhood … I think he was saying that poor folks moving just one rung up the ladder into a neighborhood no one else wants to live in, are facing tough days ahead.

  • 261. Rutherford  |  June 17, 2012 at 5:12 pm

    Friggin’ $30 hits at the concession stand is my guess.

    Yup, Alfie … that’s what my wife keeps reminding me.

  • 262. Rutherford  |  June 17, 2012 at 5:23 pm

    Rodney King R.I.P……Thoughts?

    Rodney King is an example of where we must separate the character of the victim from what happened to him. Sometimes bad things happen to not so nice people and it doesn’t make the bad thing any better.

    To drive the point home in a much more blunt way … do you think every kid that got molested by Jerry Sandusky was a sweet little boy? If statistics say anything I bet you at least one of them was a nasty foul motherf*cker on his way to being an adult motherf*cker. Does it make Sandusky’s reprehensible behavior any better? No it doesn’t.

    I suspect there are those who comforted themselves back in the day by saying “King deserved a whuppin’”. I have to disagree. The only time the character of a victim has any relevance is when that character leads us to believe the victim directly caused their attack. That is exactly why the Trayvon Martin case is not cut and dry. We don’t know based on Trayvon’s character as represented on Facebook and Twitter, whether he gave Z reasonable cause to fear for his life.

    Sorry … Alfie I probably gave you way more than you were looking for.

  • 263. Rutherford  |  June 17, 2012 at 5:24 pm

    Black men can’t swim.

    Cute … but no one can swim drunk.

  • 264. Rutherford  |  June 17, 2012 at 5:29 pm

    James, just the thought of drowning has kept us from buying homes with pools in the backyard. We have a community pool here and the kid never goes there unattended by either me or my wife … mostly my wife since I can’t do sh*t if she actually started drowning.

  • 265. Rutherford  |  June 17, 2012 at 5:34 pm

    Poolman you never did answer my question. If a rocket hit the Pentagon, where did Flight 77 go? Was it diverted to a FEMA camp somewhere on the West coast where the passengers are being kept prisoner?

  • 266. poolman  |  June 17, 2012 at 5:41 pm

    People can drown in a shower, Rutherford. Alcohol is legal and we are told to use it responsibly, but that is a vague warning. Of course we don’t know all the details and may never truly know. It’s still a shame for any life to be cut short. At my age I think that is short. There were two other people beaten at the same time that we don’t hear much about, but Rodney King became a household name.

    Tiring of politics? Here’s what politics boils down to. It is the same ol’ control freaks.

    I think that most of the population of the United States (aka Disneyland) has been duped into thinking that somehow the Hitler or Stalin personalities of the world no longer exist! That somehow they just disappeared from the earth after World War 2, or more importantly, if they exist they are in some remote African country or Middle Eastern nation that just conveniently happens to have oil!

    http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2012/06/14/remember-the-words-of-joseph-stalin/

  • 267. Rutherford  |  June 17, 2012 at 5:45 pm

    Regarding 262, of course we don’t have the Trayvon/Zimmerman confrontation on video tape. It was the tale of the tape that spoke volumes with Rodney King.

  • 268. poolman  |  June 17, 2012 at 5:48 pm

    If a rocket hit the Pentagon, where did Flight 77 go? Was it diverted to a FEMA camp somewhere on the West coast where the passengers are being kept prisoner?

    Maybe if the Pentagon would release the over 200 camera recordings that they have from that incident it would be clearer. I don’t know. Some witnesses say the plane flew over the Pentagon. Either way, the documented flight path was unusual and impressive, if not impossible at the suggested speeds and elevations given the aircraft.

    I tell you it was a day of miracles. One in which the PTB had all the answers even before you thought to ask. The was never an equal in the history of this nation in those respects.

  • 269. Rutherford  |  June 17, 2012 at 6:03 pm

    Some witnesses say the plane flew over the Pentagon.

    And landed where? Truthers demand answers to their questions but don’t provide any logical answer to any alternative scenario. We know for a fact that four flights took off that day and never met their intended destination and their passengers and flight crew have never been heard from again. And your answer is that Flight 77 flew over the Pentagon?

    Honestly Poolman I don’t mean to pile on on Father’s Day but the reason you meet such resistance on this board is that the alternative to the “official story” is utterly preposterous. Some here find you traitorous for your pursuit of an alternative answer. I don’t. But I do wonder how you can suspend proper scientific inquiry, suggest a rocket hit the Pentagon and then provide NO sensible answer as to what happened to Flight 77.

  • 270. poolman  |  June 17, 2012 at 6:13 pm

    Preposterous? Compared to the official version that hasn’t changed since reported that same day? I think that ludicrous. I find the official version unsubstantiated and still unproven.

    Here’s some research by someone who was there from the get go and has more time into it than I do. Read this and see how vague you still think evidence against the narrative really is.

    http://digwithin.net/2012/06/15/from-renovation-to-revolution-was-the-pentagon-attacked-from-within/

  • 271. an800lbgorilla  |  June 17, 2012 at 7:01 pm

    It’s been so long since I’ve written anything that it seems necessary to do this…

    http://an800lbgorilla.wordpress.com/2012/06/17/everythings-just-fine-2/

  • 272. an800lbgorilla  |  June 17, 2012 at 7:08 pm

    Ahhhhhh, nothing like homemade Liver & Onions for dinner. That’ll hit the spot!

  • 273. an800lbgorilla  |  June 17, 2012 at 7:16 pm

    Plouffe did not have a good day. He got crushed by Chris Wallace as well…

    http://an800lbgorilla.wordpress.com/2012/06/17/everythings-just-fine-2/

  • 274. an800lbgorilla  |  June 17, 2012 at 7:17 pm

    Damn it, wrong link…

  • 275. Alfie  |  June 17, 2012 at 7:24 pm

    @256
    My point regards leasing Volts and GM is a bit wordy,please accept my apologies.
    Anyway under NO circumstances does a Volt of the all electric Nissan Leaf exist as a truly cost effective vehicle. I’m talking with all the tax incentives and everything. Either one you will need to own beyond the time most Americans keep a car and you will be right up against the dreaded battery change which will definitely blow any savings away @5-7k.
    So my knock against GM is that for commercial reasons and environmental impact and all the reasons one is supposed to embrace electric cars leases are the way to do it and GM is just getting to it now after Volt failed.

  • 276. Alfie  |  June 17, 2012 at 7:30 pm

    Rutherford get off pool mans ass.
    Me and my friends worked really hard scattering false American Airline specific rubble and parts all over the interior rings of the Pentagon. Fuck we dropped that big piece on the lawn too.
    The DNA tests for identification that covered just over 180 of the 189 dead was a real bitch.
    My brother in law works as a waiter at the private island resort we house the “martyrs” on.

  • 277. Alfie  |  June 17, 2012 at 7:40 pm

    I always felt members of the LAPD clearly crossed a line that night and I imagine Kings life was a hell in many ways. I’ve known of cases where folks buckled under far less media and community exposure.
    I floated the question because I saw the report on BBC and it moved me to ponder. Before today I hadn’t given the whole thing much thought,the news of his death sparked some thoughts and memories.

  • 278. Alfie  |  June 17, 2012 at 7:45 pm

    addendum to 277 in a poker style thing to Rutherfords 262/267 combo.
    You know another tie in to present times is that the LAPD/LA riots fallout helped spawn Eric Holders career. He oversaw the pogrom that shackled the LAPD for a decade and cost the LA and California much money and safety.
    Now DoJ is guilty of all that is Fast and Furious and is sketchy at best on todays race issue,Martin-Zimmerman.
    Might call it a stretch but I think from the public serb=vant character angle and public service there’s a little smoke and more so proof we don’t learn too well.

  • 279. Alfie  |  June 17, 2012 at 7:46 pm

    serb=vant ???? Spell check let that go???? servant.
    free hit 4 u R

  • 280. dead rabbit  |  June 17, 2012 at 9:27 pm

    Poolman is the price we all pay for freedom. He’s a shit sandwhich we all have to eat. Still would be great to donkey punch him. But, I guess for love of country we have to deal with the coward.

    The funny thing is the piece of garbage thinks he is some sort of gad fly, provoking us to dig deeper. His hubris is almost as hard to take as his lies. Scum on the ass crack of a rat. I got dibs on him if the zombie apocalypse ever hits.

  • 282. an800lbgorilla  |  June 17, 2012 at 10:31 pm

    On the nose DR, on the nose…

  • 283. Tex Taylor  |  June 18, 2012 at 12:03 am

    Coming home today down the highway, I saw not one but two pictures on the back with that character (is it South Park?) pissing on….

    The name Obama.

    Both had OK license tags and these were nice, newer SUV vehicles too. Each with various state college stickers on the back window, so I am going to assume the couples were college educated.

    Now I am sure Mr. Rutherford would like to believe I got a big hoot out of that but the fact of the matter was, I found it juvenile, offensive and in really poor taste.

    Nobody wants Obama booted from office more than I do – but a window sticker like this is exactly why I begin to turn so adamantly against the Left – their vile nature advertised for everyone to see, including children.

    Really pitiful. You’re right, Rutherford. There are some unsavory characters on the right too. Not nearly as many IMO as who you root for, but they are out there.

  • 284. Rutherford  |  June 18, 2012 at 1:03 am

    276 gave me a much needed chuckle. Thanks Alfie.

  • 285. Rutherford  |  June 18, 2012 at 1:09 am

    Tex, at least you can spot ‘em when you see ‘em. I can’t ask for much more than that. Hope you had a good Dad’s day dude.

  • 286. PFesser  |  June 18, 2012 at 5:48 am

    Rutherford -

    re: swimming. I never learned until I was in med school – 25 years old. Learning as an adult is a bitch; you just can’t separate your fear of the water out and relax enough to learn. I even took a swimming course in college as a phys ed class but still didn’t learn. Several years later, my med school classmate and I took a small sailboat out on the lake (stoned). I was outside the boat in the water and a big puff of wind came from nowhere and blew the boat down the lake and turned it over. Had to “swim” (thrash) for shore. Came so very close to drowning…after that, I said fuck this, and went to the university natatorium every day until I could swim a mile. Really scary. If you can’t swim, I really recommend taking care of that demon; it will bother you forever and ruin any fun you have in the water.

    re: Rodney King. I’m sure he was no saint, but that is a separate issue. You can’t gang up on somebody and beat hell out of them, not only EVEN if you are the police – ESPECIALLY if you are the police. That is precisely the kind of stuff the Rule of Law is supposed to prevent.

    re: “People can drown in the shower.” No they can’t.

    re: electric cars. My old mentor, whom I visited last week, has made beaucoups of money by inventing medical devices. His reward was to buy himself a Tesla. (He also took a Bondurant race-driving course a couple of years ago and drives through Lafayette, LA traffic like a race-car driver.) That car is f’in amazing. No power steering. Rides like a flat-bed wagon, but I have never experienced acceleration like that! Guys stop him on the street and ask what kind of car it is. What a pussy-magnet, too! He’s done OK for a short, hairy 65 year-old obnoxious Jewish guy. Looks like Poppa Smurf, but hasn’t held him back a bit. Now, if I can just rub some of that off on me…LOL.

  • 287. PFesser  |  June 18, 2012 at 5:54 am

    re: No intact aircraft parts found at NYC site.

    Really?

    https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/aircraftpartsnyc911

    (I THOUGHT that at least the engine rotors would remain intact, but actually there is a veritable treasure trove of pieces, isn’t there?)

  • 288. Tex Taylor  |  June 18, 2012 at 7:21 am

    How did you guys get out of middle school without learning to swim? I can remember our phys. ed. classes in middle school required us to swim laps in a 25 yard pool.

    I figured that was pretty standard curriculum around the nation back in the 60s and 70s.

    Rutherford, you of all people should swim. It would be great exercise for you and your scoliosis.

  • 289. Alfie  |  June 18, 2012 at 8:05 am

    Teslas are pretty sweet but the company has a history of cranking its consumers and the car is big $$$$$$$.
    Its a novelty that proves e cars can run impressively and the Tesla perhaps would maintain its value secondary to rarity/collectible status.
    I also imagine that if you’re a person who can afford a Tesla in the first place you can probably swallow the replacement battery cost down the road just like Lambo and Ferrari drivers do.

  • 290. James  |  June 18, 2012 at 8:30 am

    Poolman and Rutherford, Our daughter was always afraid of water. She dropped out of swimming classes at age six during the first summer. She didn’t learn to swim until she reached high school and college. Our son was able to swim and enjoyed the water by his first summer of class.

    Her former college room mate’s family tragedy prompted our daughter to tell us why she had feared water. Our son told her there was no problem going under water. Just hold her breath and put her hand over her nose. He forgot to tell her to close her mouth. Our daughter nearly drowned. Details will get you.

    North Omaha is a violent and economically depressed mostly black neighborhood. Some of its leaders have criticized formerly black residents who have fled after making it. As far as I’m concerned, such people are not obligated to stay in a bad neighborhood.

    A Hispanic community in a town fifty miles away wants to live the American dream. Some of the originals advise newcomers on how it will be. They will maintain their homes whether they rent or own. They will mow their lawns. They will attend community meetings, and they will pay attention to children. If their children People who break the rules are ostracised.

  • 291. El Tigre  |  June 18, 2012 at 8:31 am

    Hang on.

    I skip over most of Poolman’s cliche-laden posts and videos.

    Poolman, are you saying that planes never struck the towers?

    I work with someone that had in office in the WTC, stood on the sodewalk as people jumped, and watched the planes strike.

    My brother lives in Brooklyn and could see it happen from his apt.

    Are tseriously sayuing they’re lying?

  • 292. El Tigre  |  June 18, 2012 at 8:36 am

    Wait. Unread that last one. I don’t want to go down that hole.

    PF you broke your promise.

  • 293. James  |  June 18, 2012 at 8:39 am

    Our small school never taught swimming. If you learned it was at the closest swimming pool, or our parents dropped us in a lake. Eleven were in my graduating class. There was no money for swimming or football.

    Our daughter’s friend and her husband took their surviving daughter to the swimming pool yesterday, a day after the funeral, so she won’t fear the water because her brother drowned.

  • 294. an800lbgorilla  |  June 18, 2012 at 8:39 am

    Hahahahaha lol…..

  • 296. James  |  June 18, 2012 at 8:47 am

    The Today Show video was a mess of confusion in the first hour or so. Al Roker said many people in New York didn’t know what was happening because a television tower was on one of the towers. The hosts got much of their information from callers.

    A woman was being interviewed as the second plain struck. Matt Laurer told her the plane looked smaller than an air liner, but she said it was huge. They played the tape and Matt agreed what he had seen was an observation plane.

    A man stuck in traffic said debris were falling from the sky. Then an airplane tire hit a car ahead of him. He thought it had injured someone.

    After the second plane hit, Matt said the tower looked as if it was leaning a bit, but that he was probably wrong. Someone told him he was right. The tower was leaning. Then, they discussed how the towers were not designed to withstand hits by airliners.

  • 297. dead rabbit  |  June 18, 2012 at 9:33 am

    Believe it or not, I was a swim champion at the local Y when I was a kid. I kept winning and they kept raising the age of my opponents. They started picking on me in the locker room. When I pointed out how I beat them in the pool I got my first and last ass kicking while I was butt naked. I quit that day.

    I have huge lungs and amaze people to this day with my feats under water. Basically I’m motherfucken Aqua Man. Yet, I have developed a phobia of childeren drowning. I can’t go anywhere they are swimming without intense anxiety. I’m a life guard at all times. It’s miserable. Wtf is wrong with me?

  • 298. Tex Taylor  |  June 18, 2012 at 9:37 am

    Poolman, honestly. If you really believe the things you post here, you are suffering from a severe form of depression. You don’t need to tell us, but I am not kidding when I tell you that. Sorry about the open forum, as I would tell you this privately if I trusted you. I don’t. But anonymous posting is about as close as confidential as I can make it, so…

    If you’re not blowing smoke and are really convinced of these illusions you’ve created, you ought to seek some professional help. This is an ugly path you’re following with a pitiful ending. You deserve better because you don’t read a bad family guy, or a cruel SOB. But this slander of yours, holding your own in contempt is downright sinful, my man because your making a coarsened culture worse.

    We all suffer from “the blues”, myself included. But there’s a huge difference between feeling sad, lonely or frustrated, and being delusional attempting to hide the self loathing. The give away is about the continual behind the scenes happy speech and loose Christian flavor. Used to see it all the time in churches – and that’s no sin or cheap shot on church because that is partially what they are for. Any Christian worth his or her salt knows that.

    You know, God didn’t tell us Christians that because we mouth all the right words, He would make it easy for us. My personal experience has been just the opposite. It’s no weakness to admit there’s a problem and seek help. It is a weakness and purely selfish against those you love if you don’t.

  • 299. Tex Taylor  |  June 18, 2012 at 9:44 am

    I can’t go anywhere they are swimming without intense anxiety. I’m a life guard at all times. It’s miserable. Wtf is wrong with me?

    Nothing. Unless being a caring parent and responsible parent is a fault. I used to be the same way, until I found as I’ve matured and swim maybe twice a year off the back of a boat, I now sink like a stone instead of floating like a raft, as I recently discovered in about a hundred feet of Pacific water off the coast of the Big Island of Hawaii.

    When they finally dragged me back into the boat, because about five minutes swimming against the ocean current was all the “float and swim” I had in me even with flippers, in between about puking salt water, I scanned the water for my wife and kids, hundreds of feet from the boat.

    And I sat there paranoid until they stood on board with me.

  • 300. PFesser  |  June 18, 2012 at 10:15 am

    “PF you broke your promise.”

    Yeah, but that was really REALLY the last time.

  • 301. James  |  June 18, 2012 at 10:30 am

    Its like eating potato chips Pfessor. Its hard to stop until they are gone.

    I am not a swimmer. I could probably paddle enough to save my life but that is about it. Ironically, I worked on a river to help pay my college bills. We did a lot of work in a boat, and I occasionally stood in water up to my neck. I tripped one time. It should have scared me, but I never feared water.

    My wife and I watched our children every minute that they were in the water. If they had gotten in trouble, my wife would have swum to them. I would have walked across the pool.

  • 302. poolman  |  June 18, 2012 at 11:15 am

    PFesser, over the years I have heard of people drowning in the shower. Maybe rare, but never say never. Here’s one example:

    http://tech.mit.edu/V117/N45/accident.45n.html

    I never said that there were no planes that crashed. I pointed out the lack of plane parts at the Pentagon, whether in the lawn or at the actual building. News reporters on that day even made the same observation.

    I did claim it was magical how they penetrated steel and concrete buildings as if they were butter.

    Your 287 link shows plane parts from WTC NY, not from the Pentagon or Shanksville. I never denied parts at WTC. (Though building seven still, not addressed, no plane or parts there.

    Shanksville is a different story, debris field was eight miles long for that one. Most likely shot down, as Roemer Freudian slipped and a pilot is on record being awarded a medal for.

    But we all know the government always gives us the straight skinny and doesn’t alter the narrative after-the-fact. Everyone basically stayed on script since. And of course, it’s criminal to even question these things. Our founder’s would be so proud. :roll:

  • 303. PFesser  |  June 18, 2012 at 11:15 am

    OT -

    I have been a big fan of the Leslie speaker since I was a kid. There is no sound like them. Here is a great vid of its history. Kind of specialized info and maybe not that interesting in general, but if you are a fan of the Hammond B3 organ or especially artists like Steve Winwood who use them, this is a pretty cool story.

  • 304. PFesser  |  June 18, 2012 at 11:32 am

    Yep. No possible to penetrate reinforced concrete.

  • 305. poolman  |  June 18, 2012 at 11:36 am

    I was at that swim party last weekend and there was a gal from Alamogordo NM whose husband was AF. She had 3 boys, one still in diapers. The two older ones were constantly in and out of the pool, getting braver with each new jump.

    I had been in earlier, but had gotten out and was dried and by the pool watching the kids playing.

    As I was standing there, one her boys jumped in the water in front of me without his ‘floaties’ on his arms. As he bobbed back up I said ‘You okay with no floaties?’ He bobbed back underwater and was starting to panic, not able to keep his face above water.

    I put my drink down and jumped in and held him above the water as he sputtered and choked, trying to expel the water from his lungs. He must have swallowed a good amount. I handed him out to his mom who was very grateful.

    Then I took my key fab and wallet out of my pockets, and took shoes off to let them dry. 20 minutes later he was back in, this time with his floaties.

  • 306. El Tigre  |  June 18, 2012 at 11:37 am

    PF, you’re feeding the monster. :lol:

    So we shot down a plane that we sent up to crash into the WH and decided on something different for the Pentagon despite having 3 others sent to their targets. Logical. :roll:

  • 307. PFesser  |  June 18, 2012 at 11:43 am

    It’s like cocaine, ET.

    Stop me before I kill again.

  • 308. Rutherford  |  June 18, 2012 at 11:44 am

    PF, I guess I’m a bit thick. Is the Leslie a speaker (like I’d hook up to my stereo system) or an amplifier (like I’d hook up to an electric guitar)? Is it used only with an organ?

  • 309. poolman  |  June 18, 2012 at 11:48 am

    Re 304, I never said a missile could not penetrate concrete, PFesser. I don’t think a commercial jet resembles a missile in it’s makeup. I don’t see how an aircraft alone of that size or makeup could create this effect. Isn’t the fuel storage in the wings?

    http://skypotrol.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Pentagon_impact-hole.jpg

  • 310. PFesser  |  June 18, 2012 at 11:55 am

    The Leslie can be hooked up to anything. You need a separate switch on your organ (not THAT organ) to make it revolve to get the “Leslie” sound. Probably not that useful for playing already-recorded music, but phenomenal for *recording* same.

  • 311. Rutherford  |  June 18, 2012 at 11:55 am

    So we shot down a plane that we sent up to crash into the WH and decided on something different for the Pentagon despite having 3 others sent to their targets. Logical.

    That’s gonna have me chuckling for the rest of the day.

    The only question I have about the Shanksville plane (and only because I’m very skeptical of “hero stories”) is did the dudes truly decide to crash the plane to save the White House or did they believe they might be able to fly the thing if they just incapacitated the hijackers?

  • 312. PFesser  |  June 18, 2012 at 11:59 am

    Naw, Rutherford. They were trying to wrest control from the erstwhile pilot, but unfortunately they were very low and going very fast. Only takes a half-second to put it in the ground under those circumstances. It is very likely that any pilot could put it on the ground safely, if not elegantly, once they get control. You have hours of fuel on board to practice with before you set her down. Go to a military base with 3-mile long runways 200′ wide and Bob’s your uncle.

  • 313. Rutherford  |  June 18, 2012 at 11:59 am

    So my next question PF is … does the Leslie go up to 11? :-)

  • 314. PFesser  |  June 18, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    Private pilot lands jetliner. (simulator)

  • 315. poolman  |  June 18, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    Logical.

    If logic was the criterion, this would already be solved and the evidence would be public and provide support to the official claim rather than destroyed, covered, or still classified. Like a real investigation ala Columbia or Challenger.

    This is one of the news clips regarding the discovery of a second debris field miles from the crash site in Shanksville.

  • 316. dead rabbit  |  June 18, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    Poolman. You’ve been vanquished. These guys actually took the time out of their day to give you everything you need to leave your little cult. Go back to ripping on banksters and using the word Ponzi in ways I’m not sure you even understand. You might find a broken clock stuck on midnight at 12 am.

    You got the conspiracy itch? MF Global. Have at it. There are conspiracies out there. But they are for grown ups. They aren’t bad movies staring Steven Siegal. They are often times dry. Their complexity is not in the conspiracy itself but hard to comprehend finacial instruments. Grow up.

  • 317. James  |  June 18, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    Rutherford, i read some accounts based on the recordings. Several passengers heard through phone conversations that other planes had crashed into buildings. They realized it was their fate too.

    One of the passengers was a pilot, and he thought he could fly the plane. Little independent groups plotted a take -over and managed because they outnumbered their guards. They made a plan, and carried it out after they took a vote and prayed. .

    At least one flight attendant threw boiling water at a terrorist, and they charged the cockpit with a food cart. They slammed into the door as the terrorists in the cockpit held it closed.

    The passengers repeatedly rammed the cockpit door. Sounds of physical confrontations were audible on a recovered tape. The hijacker pilot tipped the plane from side to side to knock the passengers off balance.

    When the passengers began to break through, expletives and sounds of a struggle were louder. The hijackers opted to end it with a crash.

    If you believe the passenger’s main motivation was to save the White House or other target, they I don’t believe they were heroes. I am extrapolating from my own experiences, so I could be wrong.My situation was not of the severity of the passengers. I was so desperate and terrified that I was emotionally numb. Only one thing mattered, my own survival.

    I believe the passengers wanted to live, and anything else was incidental. They entered a new plane of existence.

  • 318. Tex Taylor  |  June 18, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    Negative 40Gs? Penetrating reinforced concrete? Mere child’s play. :lol:

  • 319. Alfie  |  June 18, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    @pentagon…body parts in seat,chunks on lawn w AA colors,wheels couple of rings in…..
    parts were present

  • 320. PFesser  |  June 18, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    Tex – I have always been fascinated by the rocket sleds. You have any idea how they keep those sumbitches on the track? I mean, hell, a couple of hundred mph is all you can get out of even a fast train on a track. Does this mean they could potentially go supersonic? Maybe it is that the track is straight. Enquiring minds want to know…James, you have military experience – any ideas?

  • 321. poolman  |  June 18, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    There was a commercial airline crash this month into a residential building in Nigeria. Not a reinforced bomb and crash proof building like the Pentagon. The housing was demolished and burned, but the plane did not disintegrate.

    Though somewhat gruesome, it provides an accurate picture of what it really looks like when a plane crashes into a ‘normal’ building. The thing exploded and did cause quite a bit of building damage. But the tail and wings are still there. Other clips show the fuselage.

  • 322. dead rabbit  |  June 18, 2012 at 2:57 pm

    From what I have read, there is explicit documentation showing Corzine (Obama best friend for ever) was aware of customer accounts being raided. 800 million dollars plus of customer accounts wiped out. One of the big banks has this money and had to of known they were counter party to outright theft. This wasn’t money lost to a Bernie Madoff investment scheme. This was a broker stealing money from client accounts. Lots of it. This story should be huge. Corzine should hang. The ramifications and lack of consequence of this should put a chill down the spine of everyone who uses a broker.

  • 323. El Tigre  |  June 18, 2012 at 3:29 pm

    We need a little levity around here. I had this sent to me just about pissed my pants laughing:

  • 324. Tex Taylor  |  June 18, 2012 at 3:35 pm

    Pfesser, I had no idea until I looked it up.

    Here’s a picture from the back, looking at the rails (one page down). Make a hell of a roller coaster, wouldn’t it? :lol:

    http://www.impactlab.net/2006/01/15/the-fastest-rocket-sled-on-earth/

  • 325. Tex Taylor  |  June 18, 2012 at 3:44 pm

    Tigre, :lol:

    How can you sleep in your car at night, saying things like that? :lol:

  • 326. El Tigre  |  June 18, 2012 at 3:54 pm

    Do you kiss your pimp with that mouth? :lol:

  • 327. thorsaurus  |  June 18, 2012 at 3:57 pm

    Wow, much here.

    Muffy, what does you roller derby outfit look like? Red leather? ;)

    Poolman, your description of the pool party makes me think you are in the vicinity of Roswell. Could explain a lot. :)

    If the RL blog was a western, me and Elizabeth Warren would be outside filling your wagons with whiskey and guns and headed for the hills while you were busy showing each other who was toughest.

    Pf, after your comments about the ultra-light and your tutoring of the aqua engineer, I’m starting to form an image of you as a cross between Robert Gover and … Leonardo da Vinci. :)

  • 328. PFesser  |  June 18, 2012 at 4:11 pm

    These damned people have no shame: releasing phone calls between a prisoner and his wife. I wish by God they would make me king of the world for one day. ONE day. I would shove a broom handle up their collective asses – lawyers, reporters and all. Justice in this country? In your dreams, in your dreams.

    http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-06-18/news/os-george-zimmerman-phone-audio-20120618_1_witness-list-release-special-prosecutor-angela-corey

  • 329. PFesser  |  June 18, 2012 at 4:13 pm

    Thor – don’t know about the da Vinci thing; appreciate it though. It is just that when I was young I had more stones – mostly in my head.

  • 330. Rutherford  |  June 18, 2012 at 4:19 pm

    What’s amazing is that Wiener Circle actually exists. I’d never heard of it. And no I won’t be visiting there. It’s one thing to get poor customer service by happenstance. It’s something else entirely to go looking for it.

    I think the topper was “Oh no you didn’t …. wash your ass today.”

  • 331. nagic  |  June 18, 2012 at 4:28 pm

    Kind of funny Obama said it was unreasonable to say he was going to just come in and change immigration laws….that there was laws on the books he had to follow because we are a nation of laws. And then he signs an executive order bypassing our laws and congress. Doing the very thing he said he wouldnt do.

  • 332. eltigre100  |  June 18, 2012 at 4:32 pm

    R, it’s all in fun. The insulting staff thing as an old shtick. Wiener Circle just takes it down several notches becuase of the customers which are mostly late-night drunks. It’s a way to keep the crowds entertained. I get it and find it amusing.

  • 333. Rutherford  |  June 18, 2012 at 4:37 pm

    PF I have zero understanding of what constitutes legit release of evidence to the public. How can an impartial jury be empaneled when prejudicial information is made public?

  • 334. eltigre100  |  June 18, 2012 at 4:51 pm

    R and PF, they’ve charged Zimmerman’s wife with perjury now. If she’s been indicted, there’s no real secrets when it comes to the evidence.

    You’ll be surprised to learn that there’ll be no shortage of people that won’t have heard of the whole affair or not be disqualified. Happens all the time with high-profile case. There’s a bigger problem with the race-baiting douchebags you don’t have a problem with R. Now that’s prejudicial in every sense, including the one to prosecute. Why hasn’t that bothered you?

    R, you didn’t have a problem with all of the piecemeal shit about the incident when it came to Zimmerman.

  • 335. nagic  |  June 18, 2012 at 4:59 pm

    Of course he doesn’t have a problem with it. There are 3 sets of rules. One for the white guys…one for Republicans, and then the rules for everyone else. Remember, Zimmerman is a white Hispanic according to the media.

  • 336. PFesser  |  June 18, 2012 at 5:10 pm

    I know this is probably wrong, but I can’t escape the idea that this couple is just caught up in the gears of a giant fucking machine. Here they were, young couple, trying to do the right thing, being law-abiding citizens – he studying law enforcement, she the doting wife. He tries to patrol the neighborhood and gets himself in a world of shit and now SHE is in a world of shit, too.

    None of this ever had to happen. A man is dead and these two in trouble, with seemingly everybody in the whole damned town trying to get a piece of their asses. A real tragedy all ’round. Jesus. Makes you sick. Reminds me of that old WWII poem:

    Round and round went the great fucking-wheel.
    In and out went the great prick of steel.
    Balls of brass, all loaded with cream,
    And the whole mechanism driven by steam.

    Make that “driven by the American ‘judicial’” system.

  • 337. PFesser  |  June 18, 2012 at 5:14 pm

    correction: “was driven by steam.”

  • 338. Rutherford  |  June 18, 2012 at 5:47 pm

    There’s a bigger problem with the race-baiting douchebags you don’t have a problem with R. Now that’s prejudicial in every sense, including the one to prosecute. Why hasn’t that bothered you?

    R, you didn’t have a problem with all of the piecemeal shit about the incident when it came to Zimmerman.

    You kinda lost me on this one. If it’s possible to find jurors who know nothing about the case then they haven’t been tainted by the “race baiting douchebags” so what does that matter?

    And the piecemeal sh*t regarding Zimmerman is the very thing we’re discussing in these recent comments and I obviously do have a problem with it. I can assure you that defenders of Martin call the Twitter and Facebook trail highly prejudicial and piecemeal sh*t.

    Bottom line, this case is being tried in public. Not good for victim or assailant, however you might assign those roles.

    Putting aside the over-indictment of murder-2, Tigre you really don’t think Z should be prosecuted? He shot an unarmed man and for that reason alone should have to at least prove self defense in a court of law.

  • 339. Rutherford  |  June 18, 2012 at 5:50 pm

    There are 3 sets of rules. One for the white guys…one for Republicans, and then the rules for everyone else.

    Nah, you got your numbers wrong Noah. There are only two sets of rules. 99% of Republicans are white. So there’s one set of rules for Republicans (mostly white) and another set for everyone else. :-)

  • 340. Rutherford  |  June 18, 2012 at 5:58 pm

    Here they were, young couple, trying to do the right thing, being law-abiding citizens – he studying law enforcement, she the doting wife. He tries to patrol the neighborhood and gets himself in a world of shit and now SHE is in a world of shit, too.

    OK, now you’re making me sick. Neighborhood watch does not “patrol” the neighborhood. That’s where Z made his first mistake. Neighborhood watch is meant to be vigilant and report unusual activity when they see it … NOT go looking for it.

    The doting wife said she was broke when she wasn’t. I’d like to know why this money raised over the web site went to Z’s PayPal account. Why wasn’t some sort of fund set up by his attorney so the money was truly a legal defense fund and not a fund that could be used to buy a new wide screen TV once he gets acquitted?

    Bottom line PF, either everyone is a victim in this incident or no one is.

  • 341. Rutherford  |  June 18, 2012 at 6:21 pm

    This was sent to me by Gorilla to post:

    E=T+V

    E is energy and where T is kinetic and V potential energy.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy

    I assume it relates to the truther stuff.

  • 342. Tex Taylor  |  June 18, 2012 at 6:22 pm

    I hope they nail the Zimmermans for everything they can pretrial to keep the natives titillated and pleased. Because unless they get some loaded jury, there’s no way in hell the man is going down on murder 2 and in the end, the race pimps are going to be smokin’ ass – deserved for the sorry bastards they are. They do anything more than shout at verdict, mow those bastards down.

    It’s a tragedy, no doubt. But there was a young, black thug who couldn’t back off a neighborhood pain in the ass, and lost his life over his thuggery. Burned him down for his behavior, and after what we’ve learned, I hold little sympathy.

    Rodney King was a scumbag too. Made him a multi-millionaire and he didn’t change a bit; drughead, thief and slug. More often than not, you can take the thug out of the hood, but you can’t take the hood out of the thug.

    As far as Trayvon™, you live by the sword, you die by the sword.

    Simple as that.

  • 343. El Tigre  |  June 18, 2012 at 6:33 pm

    R @338, my broader pioint was that you were relatively unaffected by the fairness of the MSNBC trial until you saw that you were being had. It wasn’t until you decided Martin wasn’t the angelic little boy, and in fact a pot smoking thug wannabe, that you decided there was a problem. So, my comment was more of a “what took you so long,” and “why haven’t you questioned your portrayal of Zimmerman (as opposed to Martin) and its effect on impartiality of the process?” You still seem to buy into one-half of the narrative.

    And no. I don’t think try people unless you are confident of a conviction. That’s not what’s happened here and prosecutorial discretion is important. It’s why the Duke lacrosse was such a perversion.

  • 344. Rutherford  |  June 18, 2012 at 6:36 pm

    Well Tex, you just refuted what I wrote earlier that in most cases the character of the victim doesn’t justify the crime. Once those cops had King there was no need to beat the crap out of him. They did it for sport. After you deal with enough Kings, they become animals to you and you lose your humanity … kinda like in a war zone. The cops should have been convicted and I fully understand all hell breaking loose when they weren’t.

    As for Trayvon …. God I don’t want to litigate that again in this thread. It’s real simple. There is no stand your ground defense because Z initially pursued Trayvon. So all we are left with is simple self defense. If Z can prove that he believed Trayvon was going to beat him to death, not merely give him an ass whuppin’, then Z deserves to go free. If not, he should be convicted of some lesser charge. I agree murder-2 is a bit much. It is clear as day that Z did NOT stalk down and kill Martin. There was a scuffle and the nature of that scuffle is what the entire case revolves around.

  • 345. an800lbgorilla  |  June 18, 2012 at 6:40 pm

    Thanks R. That’s fopr the clown questioning where the aircraft parts are. The answer is they burned up. An aircraft hitting reinforced concrete at 400 knots is going to look very different than the same aircraft hitting a residential building.

  • 346. Rutherford  |  June 18, 2012 at 6:40 pm

    You still seem to buy into one-half of the narrative.

    If you actually track my long record of comments on this case you will find I have been very charitable to Zimmerman. I’ve never called him a racist and in fact completely testified to the ambiguity of the whole “coon” brouhaha. The worst I’ve said about him is he is a dangerous version of Barney Fife and I think the record supports that assessment. That doesn’t make him a cold blooded racist killer. It makes him a dangerous doofus.

  • 347. Rutherford  |  June 18, 2012 at 6:43 pm

    No problem G … Poolman’s logic totally escaped me on that one. He says a plane that hits a residential home stays mainly intact but then wonders why that same plane might be in much worse shape if it hit a building built to withstand a direct hit.

  • 348. El Tigre  |  June 18, 2012 at 6:46 pm

    “There is no stand your ground defense because Z initially pursued Trayvon.”

    I thought that was disputed. And if I’m right, it makes my point.

    We’ve got members of congress wearing hoodies, and the POTUS saying Martin could look like his son. I recall you defending that. What do’;t you get about my comment?

    And the King riots were not about social justice. It was lawless rampage by animals looking for victims. Shit. Even King knew that and said as much not that long ago.

    There were something like 77 deaths from the riots. Call it what it was. Businesses were burned down, except for shoe stores that were looted then burned down, bricks thrown at peoples head to the delight of spectators. It deserves no dignity. It was an excuse to riot, not am act of social justice.

  • 349. El Tigre  |  June 18, 2012 at 6:53 pm

    R, I thought you bought into the whole “profiling” thing. I thought the negative attention was warranted becuase of the racist police department (still no proof of that here). You still say Zimmerman confronted Martin when there’s evidence that’s not the case. This is a politically motivated lynching and so far you have focused on the character of the alleged victim as the determinative factor for your determinations, not the accused. Do you not see that you’ve acted as a jury for the television trial only?

  • 350. Tex Taylor  |  June 18, 2012 at 6:55 pm

    Trayvon™ asked to be whacked the minute he jumped on Zimmerman and started slamming Zimmerman’s head to the ground.

    Those cops lost it on King. That’s for sure. Police brutality – no doubt.

    Of course, what you never see is what led up to that moment. You deal with rabid animals everyday, it has a tendency to jade you. King was a scumbag, which he repeatedly demonstrated after society made him a multimillionaire.

    As to your conviction that you fully understand all hell breaking loose, be careful what you wish for – that cuts both ways, and the next time some black group of thugs cuts loose on whitey, which is getting more and more common, I’m going to come back and remind you of the payback and how I fully understand too.

    Guess I don’t believe that justified pulling Reginald Denny out of his truck and braining him with bricks, or burning down Korean grocer’s stores. But then I don’t discriminate by color with no respect to thugs.

    So if by chance a few vigilante types decide to pay the ‘hood a visit, somebody dropping a cutter won’t be a problem, hey?

  • 351. El Tigre  |  June 18, 2012 at 6:57 pm

    “This is a politically motivated lynching and so far you have focused on the character of the alleged victim as the determinative factor, not the accused.”

  • 352. El Tigre  |  June 18, 2012 at 7:03 pm

    “Do you not see that you’ve acted as a jury for the television trial of Martin only?”

  • 353. an800lbgorilla  |  June 18, 2012 at 7:11 pm

    I’m curious R, are you going to write on this Obama Gay pride thing?

    The black community seemed pretty incensed over the gay marriage thing, but he has really come out in support of it. How will this affect him?

  • 354. muffy  |  June 18, 2012 at 7:25 pm

    I feel like King might have been in a bad relationship with alcohol. I don’t mean to state the obvious in that he was an alcoholic. I mean the kind of alcoholic that changes when he drinks. Like Jekyll & Hyde change. The Incredible Hulk. Someone who really can’t drink.

    I heard from time to time that he was trying to quit drinking (again.) I always hoped that he would.

    He actually seemed gentle to me. Not a wiseass like you might think, given his claim to fame.

  • 355. an800lbgorilla  |  June 18, 2012 at 7:27 pm

    Yup, its the rascally right wing extremists that post the domestic threat to the country…

    (ProLifeCorner.com) – A large school bus, owned by Our Lady of the Sacred Heart Academy, that is well known throughout Rockford for its beautiful pro-life pictures and words asking people to “pray to end abortion”, was fire bombed on Friday night. The damage was extensive to the bus as windows were broken in on both sides and fire bombs were thrown inside to cause maximum damage.It has been speculated that this bombing of a pro-life Christian school bus is in retaliation for the closing of the Rockford abortion mill that is located not far from where the school bus was attacked.

  • 356. an800lbgorilla  |  June 18, 2012 at 7:28 pm

    That would be pose…

  • 357. Rutherford  |  June 18, 2012 at 8:14 pm

    Do you not see that you’ve acted as a jury for the television trial only?

    The “television trial” is the only one I have access to.

    Why should I NOT believe that the black community of Sanford does not trust its police department? Is that just a media fabrication?

    There is no doubt that some sort of profiling was being done by Zimmerman, racial or not. Do you really think Z would have called the cops on a black kid in a cap and gown coming back from a graduation ceremony? Or a black kid wearing a suit? The “entire package” spelled trouble for Zimmerman and that’s why he called the cops and followed Martin. Only Zimmerman knows for sure whether a white kid in a hoodie would have spooked him as much as Martin did. But we live in a society where racial profiling exists so it’s not a huge logical jump to make.

    Also you say we don’t have evidence that Z “confronted” Martin. If I see someone following me, I consider that threatening and confrontational. We do KNOW that he was following Martin because he told the 911 operator that he was. We do NOT know if he stopped following him after the 911 operator told him not to.

  • 358. Rutherford  |  June 18, 2012 at 8:17 pm

    And dammit Tigre, now I’m doing exactly what I didn’t want to do which was litigate this stupid case again. At this point, I don’t really give a f*ck until the jury returns a verdict. It’s two idiots, one with the marginal excuse of youth, who deserved each other.

  • 359. Rutherford  |  June 18, 2012 at 8:21 pm

    Tex, you’ll never see me defend what happened to Denny. In fact, I don’t “defend” the riots. But it’s a lot like the old Chris Rock joke about a man hitting his woman — “I’m not saying he shoulda done it, but I understand.”

  • 360. Rutherford  |  June 18, 2012 at 8:22 pm

    Correction to 359 Rock’s joke was about a man hitting his pain-in-the-ass woman.

  • 361. Rutherford  |  June 18, 2012 at 8:24 pm

    Tigre, regarding 351 and 352 did you like your comment so much that you’re quoting yourself? :lol:

  • 362. muffy  |  June 18, 2012 at 8:25 pm

    (The Weiner’s Circle) Reminds me, there was a BBQ place near Seattle (Seattlites ever hear of Dixie’s in Bellevue?) – an outdoor place, very public, and they had this real mean woman that took the orders. Except it wasn’t that much of a shtick. She was just mean and it was just funny. Mostly impatience and attitude and eyerolls. I would practice my order in line. She was a big momma too. My first time I was so nervous I asked for no beans in my beans. (I meant beef). Everyone in line tensed up. But she let me off with an eyeroll.

    They used to call their hottest special sauce “The Man.” This older guy would walk around with it in a saucepan and try and ladle some of “the man” on your food if you’d let him. One of our party – not normally a show off – asked for an extra dab of the man without even tasting it first. I swear his glasses fogged up. Nothing gimmicky about the food though. Real good ‘que.

    ~

    If one of you guys can handle Thor I think I can take Elizabeth. I’m 1/32 Amazon. Now if she was 1/32 Comanche I might have a problem.

  • 363. Rutherford  |  June 18, 2012 at 8:26 pm

    The black community seemed pretty incensed over the gay marriage thing, but he has really come out in support of it. How will this affect him?

    From the awful leftist media spin to which I subscribe, I’ve heard that Obama’s statement is actually having an impact within the black community. It is expected that black support of gay marriage will change in coming polls.

  • 364. muffy  |  June 18, 2012 at 8:29 pm

    “But it’s a lot like the old Chris Rock joke about a man hitting his (pain-in-the-ass) woman — “I’m not saying he shoulda done it, but I understand.” “

    Yes, Rutherford. In fact it is exactly like saying that.

  • 365. Rutherford  |  June 18, 2012 at 8:29 pm

    G, is that Rockford, IL? Only an hour from me and right next door to my in-laws.

  • 366. Rutherford  |  June 18, 2012 at 8:34 pm

    364 — Muffy do I discern the slightest bit of judgement in 364? ;-)

    Your restaurant comment of course reminds me of the Soup Nazi on “Seinfeld” who supposedly was based on a real person.

  • 367. an800lbgorilla  |  June 18, 2012 at 8:39 pm

    Yes, yes it is. Where were you Friday night?

  • 368. poolman  |  June 18, 2012 at 8:41 pm

    This is really the point.

    We spend all kinds of time trying to ‘get’ a Trayvon-Zimmerman conspiracy, but no time on the biggest event of our lifetime. The story we were fed the day this epic event was unfolding is the same story we accept today. Parameters set. No question. No real scientific study.

    Absolutely zero transparency from the administration or the military.

    This was a controlled message from the get go. Compare to the OBL ever changing story.

    Real life would be reconstructing this entire event, piece by piece, cordoned off and recorded as a crime scene. We go through whatever it takes. We would prove it to all the accusers. We were a nation that was influenced by burdens of proof. Not so. Our government is supposed to be accountable to the people. It isn’t. National security my ass.

    Re 347… The building was supposed to be strong enough to withstand a hit. Why wasn’t an aluminum plane all over the outside of this thing? Really, the first images don’r show any plane parts outside. How did it get inside and penetrate 3 rings of an impenetrable structure? There was no pile driver, no rocket sled, just a commercial jet flying at break apart speed an inch above the grass. The building should have been coated in aluminum, if it were genuine.

  • 369. muffy  |  June 18, 2012 at 8:43 pm

    Re: #366. I don’t know, is there? (not being a smartass). I was writing a response to your “understandable” comment and that Chris Rock one popped in before I was finished. I read it and went, “yes, that’s what I’m trying to say.”

    Nothing personally about you I don’t think. But the riots are only “understandable” if you’re joking.

  • 370. El Tigre  |  June 18, 2012 at 9:15 pm

    “Tigre, regarding 351 and 352 did you like your comment so much that you’re quoting yourself?”

    I was correcting what I hurriedly wrote.

    And I love that you “assume” some facts, but others can’t be assumed. Pick one. The point is everything you’ve heard is bullshit, and all of your selective assesment are from the exact sameignorant source. Let me know when you’re ready to dispense shit for the Sharptons and your MSNBC crowd for the agenda-driven lynching. You would if you really cared about “fairness.”

    BTW, you stared it with an observation about leaked info and “fairness. I got sucked into Poolmans stupidity, so I thought I’d spread the love. :lol:

    Suffice it to say, the race-baiting agitators should be condemned, not given a free pass.

  • 371. Tex Taylor  |  June 18, 2012 at 9:27 pm

    There is no doubt that some sort of profiling was being done by Zimmerman, racial or not.

    Why shouldn’t every living American profile? Blacks commit a disproportionate amount of violent crime.

    I personally profile myself. I trust blacks less than any demographic in America as far as theft and violence, and my radar goes up dramatically when I see young blacks walking my streets and especially around my daughters and wife.

    We damn sure do profile. Six Imams dressed in flowing robe garb had better be raising the hairs on the neck of TSA agents standing next to the white Swedish grandma. The whole rejection of profiling demonstrates how fundamentally stupid leftists are.

    If that makes me racist, so be it. But anybody that doesn’t admit that is stupid, a liar, and mathematically/statistically challenged.

  • 372. Tex Taylor  |  June 18, 2012 at 9:37 pm

    I’ve heard that Obama’s statement is actually having an impact within the black community. It is expected that black support of gay marriage will change in coming polls.

    Surprise, surprise. This once again provides proof most of these black Protestant churches are nothing but a front for black racism, apartheid and completely unprincipled. Everything, including even the Word of God, is to be judged by color of skin. Straight out the gates of hell – there is nothing holy about their worship.

    Puke…sorry Rutherford. I’m not dancing around how truly racist most blacks are anymore. It even slips out from you occasionally.

    You and I need to admit the truth. You don’t trust whitey much. And I reciprocate by not trusting darkie much anymore. I’m not so fricking naive to not recognize about 75% of the blacks in America hate my guts based solely on the color of my skin and what they perceive from their cradle indoctrination my “unfair advantage” being born white.

    Maybe 20% for me based on trust factor, and it is usually predicated on politic unfortunately.

  • 373. El Tigre  |  June 18, 2012 at 9:50 pm

    “I’ve heard that Obama’s statement is actually having an impact within the black community. It is expected that black support of gay marriage will change in coming polls”.

    I’m calling bullshit on that.

    What’s your source?

  • 374. an800lbgorilla  |  June 18, 2012 at 9:54 pm

    Re 347… The building was supposed to be strong enough to withstand a hit. Why wasn’t an aluminum plane all over the outside of this thing? Really, the first images don’r show any plane parts outside. How did it get inside and penetrate 3 rings of an impenetrable structure? There was no pile driver, no rocket sled, just a commercial jet flying at break apart speed an inch above the grass. The building should have been coated in aluminum, if it were genuine. – Piss Pot

    A fully loaded Boeing 757-223 weighs 220,000 lbs and hit the Pentagon going 460 knots.

    220,000 lbs is 220,000 lbs. Period. Doesn’t matter if it is highly enriched uranium or soda can aluminum.

    100,000 kilos x (237m/s x 237 m/s) = 5,616,900,000 Newtons, which = 1,262,729,348.8080866 lbs of force.

    Reinforced concrete is strong, but it isn’t THAT strong.

    Checkmate Fuck wad

  • 375. an800lbgorilla  |  June 18, 2012 at 10:01 pm

    http://www.911myths.com/html/757_wreckage.html

  • 376. dead rabbit  |  June 18, 2012 at 10:02 pm

    Ah yes. The post rutherford was scammed by MSNBC discussion. It’s like a ritual here. Always a couple months out from the controversy.

  • 379. nagic  |  June 18, 2012 at 11:12 pm

    I find it interesting that Rutherford doesnt care where the trillions of dollars comes from o pay for all his social programs, but wants every dime of he Zimmerman fund accounted for and spent properly. One set of standards over here….and another set of standards over there.

  • 380. an800lbgorilla  |  June 18, 2012 at 11:19 pm

    Why am I not surprised…

    (Politico) MSNBC aired footage today that inaccurately portrayed Mitt Romney’s remarks at a campaign stop in Pennsylvania.

    Discussing how the public sector suffers from a lack of competition, Romney told the audience about an optometrist who wanted to change his address and subsequently received 33 pages of paperwork from the federal government, which begat a months-long bureaucratic nightmare during which the optometrist in question wasn’t receiving his checks. “That’s how government works,” Romney said.

    Then, to illustrate the advantages of competition in the private sector, Romney shared an anecdote from his visit to the local WaWa chain store. “I was at WaWas, I went in to order a sandwich. You press a little touchtone keypad – you touch this, touch this, go pay the cashier — there’s your sandwich. It’s amazing. People in the private sector have learned how to compete. It’s time to bring some competition to the federal government.”

    But in the MSNBC clip, which first aired on Andrea Mitchell Reports, Romney’s remarks begin with the WaWa anecdote and end at “It’s amazing,” an edit – first noted by conservative blogger Sooper Mexican — that makes it seem as though Romney was expressing amazement at the advent of touchtone screens.

  • 381. Tex Taylor  |  June 18, 2012 at 11:32 pm

    Look at these sad sacks. :lol: You really hitched yourself to a movement, “R”.

    The Sad Demise of the Occupy Movement

    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2012/06/the-sad-demise-of-the-occupy-movement.php

  • 382. dead rabbit  |  June 18, 2012 at 11:44 pm

    Tex, that was great. Fucking morons don’t even know what they are protesting. Sums up OWS to the tee.

  • 383. nagic  |  June 18, 2012 at 11:51 pm

    my favorite part…

    “and with more criminal prosecutions to its credit than normal citizens converted to the leftist cause.”

    ….guess I was right after all…

  • 384. Rutherford  |  June 19, 2012 at 12:27 am

    I’m not so fricking naive to not recognize about 75% of the blacks in America hate my guts based solely on the color of my skin and what they perceive from their cradle indoctrination my “unfair advantage” being born white.

    You’ve been listening too much to Noah. 75% of blacks in America are just trying to survive and don’t give a damn about you.

    By the way, you’d all love the current topic in my sociology class: why is white IQ higher than black IQ. The answers even when they reject genetics still give me the willies.

  • 385. Rutherford  |  June 19, 2012 at 12:30 am

    I’m calling bullshit on that.

    What’s your source?

    Honestly Tigre i don’t remember. Like I said, I heard it on one of my favorite sources of liberal propaganda. I just don’t recall which one.

  • 386. Rutherford  |  June 19, 2012 at 12:36 am

    Noah, Zimmerman can buy three flat screen TV’s for all I care. I really don’t give a damn. I’m just saying all that money being moved around personal accounts was just begging for Z to get snagged and put back in jail. Things would have looked more on the up and up if the funds didn’t go to a personal PayPal account. His wife lying didn’t help either.

  • 387. Rutherford  |  June 19, 2012 at 12:45 am

    I haven’t bothered to go through the exhaustive list of rapes, murders and beheadings attributed to the OWS movement but I strongly suspect “attributed” is the key word here. I’d bet dollars to donuts 90% of these crimes were incidental to OWS gatherings. I’d also like someone to document for me where in any OWS statement of philosophy or goals does it say “we advocate rape, murder and theft”. These bad actors should live in infamy for giving you partisans fodder to discredit a movement that has NOTHING to do with them. It’s a damn shame.

  • 388. poolman  |  June 19, 2012 at 1:49 am

    I’ve seen all the pictures, except the ones that are still classified. I’ve watched the sequence of video and read all kinds of theories. No matter. I need real proof. It looks too suspicious and sure fixed a major accounting problem that was made public the day before.

    I want to see aluminum plastered either side of the entry point on the walls and the impact where the 2 jet engines penetrated following their path to their resting place. Plenty of film is being shot we haven’t seen. What’s with that?

    Of course not everyone is toeing the line. Here is one stubborn gal who was there and has tried to get real answers.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/after-911-woman-who-was-at-pentagon-remains-skeptical/2011/08/10/gIQAUtQDGK_story.html

  • 389. PFesser  |  June 19, 2012 at 4:05 am

    “There were something like 77 deaths from the riots. Call it what it was. Businesses were burned down, except for shoe stores that were looted then burned down, bricks thrown at peoples head to the delight of spectators. It deserves no dignity. It was an excuse to riot, not am act of social justice.”

    Perfectly said. I was describing the riots to a younger X-ray tech a couple of days ago and googled up the video of the fellow hitting trucker Reginald Denney in the head with a brick while he lay helpless on the ground and then doing a little victory dance. Fucking animals.

    Too bad they didn’t get hold of my (now dead) brother. Two (white, actually) drunk guys tried to accost him during a snowstorm on New Years’ eve several years ago as he was fueling his truck at a truck stop out on the road. After a little exchange, one of them said, “I think I’ll whip your ass.” John said, no I don’t think you will do that. When the guy came up to him to begin the process, John stuck the barrel of a .38 right between his eyes so hard it nearly knocked him down, leaving a round mark on his forehead.

    “Whoa there, man, I was just kidding!”

    “Then why don’t you laugh, you sonofabitch? The joke’s on you.”

    And the pair staggered off, holding each other up. Also fucking animals.

  • 390. PFesser  |  June 19, 2012 at 4:11 am

    “Correction to 359 Rock’s joke was about a man hitting his pain-in-the-ass woman.”

    Know what you say to a woman with two black eyes?

    Not a thing; you done told her twice…

    That’s a joke.

  • 391. PFesser  |  June 19, 2012 at 4:23 am

    “We damn sure do profile. Six Imams dressed in flowing robe garb had better be raising the hairs on the neck of TSA agents standing next to the white Swedish grandma”

    Sure. How silly to suggest we a)don’t profile, and b)shouldn’t. The jeweler’s antennae go up when a group of young black men come into his store, and not when a group of Chinese young men arrive because he knows that, if he is robbed, likely it will be by a group of young black men. That is just wariness borne of a lifetime of experience. It’s called, “good thinking.”

    Likewise, when I get on a plane with folks in stinkbeard garb, the first thing I do is mentally note where they are sitting and estimate how long it would take for me to cover the distance between them and me. I always carry a ball-point pen or two in my shirt pocket; believe me, let me drive that through your lamina papyracea into your frontal lobe and you are done fighting for the day.

    Fair? Probably not, but who cares? I’m planning for my own survival. Fuck ‘em, Bucky.

  • 392. James  |  June 19, 2012 at 8:10 am

    Pfessor, I thought I was the only person who carried a ball point pen for dual reasons. I learned that a long time ago.

    Ball point pens are periforal to the 9/11 plane attacks in my opinion. Consider how tornadic winds will push straw intact into the side of a house or tree if the speed is great enough. Wouldn’t a plane, like a ball point pen do the same thing for a few seconds?

    I believe rioting blacks were especially angry at Koreans. Koreans know how to defend themselves. Many of them stood outside of their stores with guns.

    we attended an economic development meeting in Sioux City a month ago. A speaker showed how a form of gentrification can improve a neighborhood. He referred to historical development. Once a neighborhood is declared a historic preservation district and rules of home or business maintanance are imposed as a condition of receiving designation as a historic site tourists appear and spend money.

    European and American studies show that historic districts have fewer foreclosures and housing values are more stable than outside of historic preservation areas. Of course, the residents have to be motivated.

    I believe we have so many black race baiters because our politically correct society lets them. If 90% of whites voted for a white president, we would call them racists. The reverse isn’t true.

    Muffy, I think you are more than 1/32 Amazon.

  • 393. dead rabbit  |  June 19, 2012 at 8:22 am

    My first day working in the juvenile prisons I brought a ball point pen in. One of those shnazzy metal ones. I have no idea how I got it through security. It was stolen on that nervous rookie day and probably still serves as a shank somewhere.

  • 394. dead rabbit  |  June 19, 2012 at 8:23 am

    75% of blacks think Noah has some advantage over them. But hate? No way.

  • 395. James  |  June 19, 2012 at 8:25 am

    “The Sad Demise of the Occupy Movement” reinforces what several of us have written here. Democrats wasted their money on OWS.

    I posted the link to an article which shows how Obama, ACORN and others unwittingly helped damage the Chicago housing market. The artificially inflated housing bubble and later pollution of our economy with bad assets, some which were disguised as exotic financial assets mirrored what the Chicago people were doing on a local scale.

    The EC president told a Canadian reporter the EU doesn’t need Americans to lecture it on how to resolve its problems since unorthodox capitalistic practices in America caused their crisis. If Poolman can indulge in dark conspiracies, so can I. I believe the source of much of the distress we are feeling now belongs to liberal Democrats.

  • 396. PFesser  |  June 19, 2012 at 8:59 am

    James -

    When you get into velocities like 600mph, with the 220,000# aeroplane being driven by the engines at full bore until most of the airplane is inside the building (with both engines still supplying about 20 tonnes push each) – I don’t think our resident armchair critics – including me – can tell you what is really supposed to happen.

    I CAN tell you that IMHO all bets are off. These are areas of violent energy release that have never been explored in detail. Even military violence does not involve these kinds of parameters.

    re: Koreans. My cousin called me when the “Rodney King riots” were taking place. He never even said hello. “Are you watching television?” was all he said. I said yes. “Why do you think they are picking on the Koreans?” Jealousy, I replied. “Goddamned right! These people have lived here ten generations and turned that place into a shithole; the Koreans came in and didn’t even speak the language, and in ten years have thriving businesses in places nobody else even dared to walk.”

    Picking on the Koreans is a bad idea. One of my old partners was Korean and he was about 5’3″ and not afraid of the Devil himself. Don’t think for a minute those guns were for show.

  • 397. Tex Taylor  |  June 19, 2012 at 9:12 am

    75% of blacks in America are just trying to survive and don’t give a damn about you

    True, I’m sure. But they sure do like my “stuff.” Including the brothas who swiped my car.

  • 398. Tex Taylor  |  June 19, 2012 at 9:16 am

    I always carry a ball-point pen or two in my shirt pocket; believe me, let me drive that through your lamina papyracea into your frontal lobe and you are done fighting for the day.

    :lol: Never let a radiologist pick the place to jab a pen into you, because you are for sure going down for the the count.

  • 399. Tex Taylor  |  June 19, 2012 at 9:18 am

    It was stolen on that nervous rookie day and probably still serves as a shank somewhere.

    :lol: :lol:

  • 400. PFesser  |  June 19, 2012 at 9:31 am

    “Never let a radiologist pick the place to jab a pen into you, because you are for sure going down for the the count.”

    I always tell my wife, “I know where all the nerve endings are,” – but that’s on a different topic…LOL

  • 401. Tex Taylor  |  June 19, 2012 at 9:31 am

    If you guys don’t think blacks hate whites, I lay down a challenge to any white face here. I made this challenge to that insufferable Graychin, who knew exactly what I was talking about, and he pussied out after running his mouth. Big man, no act. :twisted:

    You come to Tulsa, I’ll take you to a place at dusk. You walk five miles North, unarmed. And if you make it unscathed, I will give you $500.00 and pay for your trip here and back. Because believe me, you will have earned it in fear. Couple of years ago, one black killed another black in front of the fried chicken shack which you will get to walk by after dark, and the patrons walked over the victim for three hours to get their fried chicken. Fucking animals is right. Cops won’t even go in there.

    That envy of “white privilege” is the truest form of hate. Because it is based on envy…

  • 402. Tex Taylor  |  June 19, 2012 at 9:33 am

    You know, Pfesser. I never thought about it.

    A bumper sticker:

    Neurologists make the best lovers…. :twisted:

    And I consider radiologists the world’s best anatomists – so you would have to be right there with the neurologists.

    Let’s market it? Get your wife to use that internet marketing thing? :grin:

  • 403. Tex Taylor  |  June 19, 2012 at 9:36 am

    Got to go fix a lamp and dripping faucet. Will be back to harass my favorite black brother later.

    By the way Brother Rutherford. I do admit a lot of that hate is based on poverty. But the poverty ain’t my fault.

  • 404. PFesser  |  June 19, 2012 at 9:43 am

    Tex -

    I have to tell you, I thought rads were the best anatomists, but I did a two-month mini-fellowship at Duke some time back, and got to work with the orthopedic surgeons. They get no respect and are the butt of a lot of jokes (“strong as a bull and twice as smart”), but these guys KNEW their anatomy better than anybody I have ever met, including ANY radiologist. HT and concession to the ‘pods, IMHO. Fine doctors who make a real difference in their patients’ lives.

  • 405. James  |  June 19, 2012 at 10:07 am

    I just picked our first batch of peas.

    I vaguelly understand the Korean mentality because our daughter-in law is Korean. Back during the Vietnam War, the Viet
    Cong feared Koreans more than any other nationality, even when rumor said that Australians invented ear collecting. Fillipinos are no slouches either, as Marion Barry observed when he dumped on them. Our nephew is Fillipino.

    I know blacks in general hate whites, because they told me so. If I had endured what some of them did, I would have hated whites too.

    Five black men and I were friends in the service. We hung out together, and they accepted me as an honorary black. One of them said I was the only white man he trusted. Whites give them a pass because they feel guilty. I don’t feel guilt, and I don’t feel hatred because as Tex wrote it “ain’t my fault.”

    That bumper sticker idea is funny.

  • 406. nagic  |  June 19, 2012 at 10:23 am

    “You’ve been listening too much to Noah. 75% of blacks in America are just trying to survive and don’t give a damn about you.”

    No, they dont give a dam, but they do blame us. Its a white thing, I dont expect you to understand.

    “You’ve been listening too much to Noah. 75% of blacks in America are just trying to survive and don’t give a damn about you.”

    Just what you need….more reasons to consider yourself a victim. Called that one.

    “Noah, Zimmerman can buy three flat screen TV’s for all I care. I really don’t give a damn. I’m just saying all that money being moved around personal accounts was just begging for Z to get snagged and put back in jail. Things would have looked more on the up and up if the funds didn’t go to a personal PayPal account. His wife lying didn’t help either.”

    You have given far more thought to the money of the white Hispanic Zommerman and what he did with it than you did the billions of wasted dollars by your Messiah’s administration to green energy companies and others…you leftists are always so concerned with what is in other people’s pocketbooks and what they do with it….just sayin.

  • 407. nagic  |  June 19, 2012 at 10:33 am

    I haven’t bothered to go through the exhaustive list of rapes, murders and beheadings attributed to the OWS movement but I strongly suspect “attributed” is the key word here. I’d bet dollars to donuts 90% of these crimes were incidental to OWS gatherings.

    A defining difference between a leftist like yourself and a Conservative like me is I “bother” with facts before I make a statement like that. Your opinion is null and void until you can back up your claims. They happened at events, by people AT the events..IN the tent cities and such. If you cant be bothered to do your homework and back your claims with facts, then don’t expect anyone to accept your answer. Your imaginings, while making a semi interesting work of fiction, are of little consequence to anyone else.

  • 408. nagic  |  June 19, 2012 at 10:35 am

    Condolences about your brother Pfesser

  • 409. El Tigre  |  June 19, 2012 at 11:22 am

    Best comment from the piece on the lost OWS hippie wannabes:

    “Then Gump stopped running and everyone went home.”

    That captures it perfectly.

    In some ways, it captures the Obama spirit too.

  • 410. Tex Taylor  |  June 19, 2012 at 11:34 am

    Orthos are certainly good with what they work with, Pfesser. Those knee and hip replacement guys are machines (no pun intended).

    But believe it or not, the best anatomy student in my med class (100% average which had never been done at the school before) was (and you’re going to laugh):

    A chiropractor.

    He had been practicing about 10 years. Wasn’t making much money. Barely got into the program because his physical science MCAT score sucked – wasn’t worth a shit at biochemistry, especially the analytical part. Pure chemistry (electrostatic crap), he was clueless. Probably never met a valance electron he understood.

    But ask him a metacarpal, a cervix dermatome, a reflex? Child’s play. :grin: I sucked at anatomy, because my rote memorization skills have gone to shit, unless it’s numerical. I’ll bet a spent six hours trying to memorize posterior circumflex humoral artery.

    Good lawd, the chiropractor man knew his anatomy like nothing else. He pretty much tutored the rest of us when it came to the heart and CNS.

  • 411. Tex Taylor  |  June 19, 2012 at 11:39 am

    I swear, Brother “R”. You’re like the kiss of death. :twisted:

    Remember when you lectured me for my idiocy about Russia and China just a couple of weeks ago on this very blog. My inner paranoia and how did you put it? Well, it escapes me at the moment. How I was concerned about Putin and you laughed at my lunacy?

    Syria, Iran, Russia and China plan joint war games, Iranian news agency reports

    What are you picking in the market right now, Rutherford? I got $70K that just turned over and has to be reinvested within 90 days, and whatever you pick, I’ll pick just the opposite and make a small fortune.

  • 412. dead rabbit  |  June 19, 2012 at 11:43 am

    I think it’s safe to say 75% of blacks are envious of whites and believe the man is holding them down. However, I don’t feel that those same blacks filled with envy for the cracker transfer this from the abstract to the individual. The racist old black man who rips on whitey at the barber shop probably gives Noah a fair shake.

    The problem with blacks is that they have a much larger savage minority within their community as both common sense and statistics clearly show. When I was complaining about blacks moving into my old stomping ground, I meant it.

    As for those black hoods in which we probably would get hurt or killed, the majority of people are not savage. Unfortunately hefty minority are. Particularly the childeren who have gone feral. It only takes two thugs to ruin 3 blocks.

  • 413. dead rabbit  |  June 19, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    “Probably never met a valance electron he understood.” -tex

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4UIO2dAGjgE

  • 414. Tex Taylor  |  June 19, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    Feral children? I never thought of that. Guess that’s pretty true, but I would wager it’s a lot more than two thugs in a 3 block radius since 3/4 have no idea who daddy is. I know it probably pisses Rutherford off for me to be talking this way which is not my intent because Rutherford is a bud of sorts, but gots to be truthful. When the entire crowd is walking over a dead guy for three hours to get to their fried chicken (and it is good), that is a pretty good indication the entire neighborhood has gone to hell.

    But I could be wrong.

    All I know is by Rutherford’s definition of racism, I’m only half racist since Obama is only half black. :twisted:

  • 415. Tex Taylor  |  June 19, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    For some reason, I justed noticed from your post Rabbit, I spelled valence wrong. Shit, I can’t even proofread anymore either.

  • 416. Tex Taylor  |  June 19, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    Shited. Make that just too.

  • 417. dead rabbit  |  June 19, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    Actually, you are correct. In the real bad neighborhoods it is more the 2 per block. A lot more!

  • 418. dead rabbit  |  June 19, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    After about three sentences, I can’t even see what I’m typing.

  • 419. Tex Taylor  |  June 19, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    In response to that toupeed flunky Sam Donaldson’s slanderous charges…

    Some on the left have unleashed wild accusations that I harbor a primal animosity toward Obama’s shredding of the Constitution, or his opposition to the ideals of the American founding. They think I look at Obama’s membership in a European-style socialist party (about which he lied) or his close relationship with anti-American terrorist William Ayers (about which he lied) or his twenty year tutelage under the racist, anti-American preacher Jeremiah Wright (about which he almost certainly lied) or the several attempts at government encroachments so overweening that they have been struck down 9-0 by a normally divided Supreme Court — and see all that as evidence that this president is less committed to the American project than any leader of this continent since King George.

    Wrong! I’m just not down with this whole African-American business. I mean, the guy’s all, like, dark and stuff. What’s that about?

    Listen, I don’t mind black people in their proper place. I can accept someone like Thomas Sowell, say, as one of the greatest political philosophers of our time, or Congressman Allen West as a shining example of the best and bravest men this nation can produce. But when it comes to running an administration of incompetence, corruption, arrogance and ignorance, well, doggone it, I feel that’s a job for a white man! ~ Andrew Klavan
    :lol:

  • 420. Rutherford  |  June 19, 2012 at 1:02 pm

    Logical fallacy about the Rodney King riots. If the acquittal was an “excuse to riot” that implies a riot would have occurred for some other reason anyway. We know that is not true. The acquittal CAUSED the riot. Was the riot a civilized or even sensible response to the verdict? Of course not. But let’s not pretend that the riot was not sparked by injustice. The riot itself did not seek justice. It was a horrible waste of human destructive energy. But sorry gang … white guys got off for beating the sh*t out of a black guy for no good reason than they COULD and they didn’t think they’d get caught on tape. They got off, and black folks went off. Cause and effect. Don’t try to suggest otherwise.

    And to answer Muffy … I don’t condone what they did but I understand. No joke at all.

  • 421. El Tigre  |  June 19, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    “We know that is not true. The acquittal CAUSED the riot.”

    Bullshit.

    Imagine if OJ were found guilty.

    All that’s needed is an event.

    Zimmerman is another one with potential.

  • 422. El Tigre  |  June 19, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    R, no one here is saying the cops should have gotten off.

    Understand the logic before you complain that it’s fallacious.

  • 423. PFesser  |  June 19, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    Rutherford –

    “Logical fallacy about the Rodney King riots. If the acquittal was an “excuse to riot” that implies a riot would have occurred for some other reason anyway. We know that is not true. The acquittal CAUSED the riot.”

    Whoa, whoa, whoa there, Big Fella -

    If a rock is balanced on a needlepoint and someone breaks wind and blows it off, is the problem that he farted, or is it that the rock was ready to go anyway and ANYTHING would have started it down?

    I think the original is right, and the logical fallacy is yours. It’s exactly what we are seeing in the Martin case: let’s not wait for facts; let’s just boogie, and deal with the consequences later.

  • 424. muffy  |  June 19, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    Whoa, Egypt is going off again. Bad days ahead. All the while Syria not-so-quietly continues to slay its own children by the dozens.

    This old world is going through some changes. The big kind. Bigger than the United States. Pffft. It’s going to make the SCOTUS ruling on the HCR bill look like a paragraph in a textbook. Pack up the babies and grab the old ladies, and everyone goes.

    ~

    Say what you will, I don’t care. I don’t want some guy to ask for my vote and then complain for the next four years about how hard his job is.

  • 425. El Tigre  |  June 19, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    I worried like hell what might happen if Obama weren’t elected too.

  • 426. thorsaurus  |  June 19, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    “If one of you guys can handle Thor I think I can take Elizabeth. I’m 1/32 Amazon. Now if she was 1/32 Comanche I might have a problem.” – Muffy

    Only one? You underestimate the power of the pacifist. :)

    Actually, I’m told I’m 1/32 Blackfoot, I guess that makes me your huckleberry.

    Is 1/32 enough to produce a middle finger? I should probably go in front of the mirror and flip the other 31/32 of my heritage off. ;)

  • 427. muffy  |  June 19, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    “The acquittal CAUSED the riot.”

    “Bullshit.”

    Of course it is (bullshit). The riots were nothing if not entirely regrettable.

    ~

    Gorilla I think Fuck wad is one word.

  • 428. El Tigre  |  June 19, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    R, I assume you’re outraged by video editing when it comes to MSNBC, right?

    http://mrctv.org/videos/msnbc-selectively-edits-romney-speech-laughs

    And what is it with MSNBC and the Muppets? Chris the Muppet (or Wii character) Hayes. Then this morning on MSNBC, I closed my eyes and heard Kermit the Frog. When I opened them, I saw it was Eugene Robinson.

  • 429. thorsaurus  |  June 19, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    Nagic, do you condemn Jesus and the New Testament because some with crosses hanging from their neck have tortured, slaughtered and raped? Or do you see them for what they are, a brutal perversion of an otherwise worthy cause?

  • 430. Alfie  |  June 19, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    I concur w/ James #395 Jose Manuel Barroso wins the D- bag of the Day award.

  • 431. muffy  |  June 19, 2012 at 1:44 pm

    Why did that get bolded? (My remark to Gorilla). Weird. Oh, I left the b on.

    Re:OWS – The OWS demonstrators (most downtown demonstrations actually) use the street one block over from where I live, and I used to work on that that street. Washington. I see lots of marches, all the time. None of them have been a problem, just a nuisance for the commuters really. It’s tough walking against the tide to get to the train, that kind of thing. I know it did get out of hand in pockets and there was violence and a bunch of arrests in the Chicago OWS protests – it was on the nightly local news all the time – but I never saw anything but friendly neo-hippies. I’m really not sure what to make of the movement except that in my opinion it made hypocrites of a whole bunch of people who liked to refer to the tea party folks by a sexual pejorative.

    ~

    Oh! Blackfoot, Thor? For real? They’re badass.

  • 432. PFesser  |  June 19, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    “Actually, I’m told I’m 1/32 Blackfoot, I guess that makes me your huckleberry.”

    You remind me of my Uncle Tracy’s cow. My older brother asked Tracy what kind of cow it was. Tracy, who was “bad to drink,” as we say in the mountains, replied: “Well, she’s half Jersey, she’s half Guernsey, and she’s half Poland-China. (Besides making a cow-and-a-half, Poland-China is a breed of hog!)

    “That’s a lot of cow, ain’t it, Tracy?”

    “Yep, and by God, she’s a good’un, too!”

  • 433. thorsaurus  |  June 19, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    I thought we were done with Z until the verdict.

  • 434. muffy  |  June 19, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    El Tigre you hit on exactly why the riots were all bad. Apart from the savage mindless brutality, that is no way to respond to a verdict that you don’t like. To intimidate future juries like that is punk. It’s either going to work (BAD) or backfire (BAD). Come on.

  • 435. El Tigre  |  June 19, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    “I thought we were done with Z until the verdict.”

    Not me.

  • 436. muffy  |  June 19, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    “Or do you see them for what they are, a brutal perversion of an otherwise worthy cause?”

    How do you see the tea party, Thor?

    PF…you’re not…nah. Couldn’t be.

    PS…Rutherford can you close my b’s? Thx!

  • 437. muffy  |  June 19, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    I live in a multicultural neighborhood, maybe 40% white, 40% black, and 20% other. I rode the bus this morning and observed my profiling. Twenty three riders. Had any one of fourteen of them gotten up to get off at my stop I would have kicked into daytime self-preservation mode – which involves merely making sure the straps on my shoes are fastened tight and that my purse strap is crossed over to the other shoulder. Nighttime self-preservation is a little more dicey. In fact at night someone being able to easily steal my purse might very well be the best case scenario.

    One time I was on the L and I saw a man in a suit who had been reading get punched in the face because he tightened up his knees on his briefcase as 4 young loud buddies got on and passed his seat. A few minutes later I heard the guy sitting across from the suit say “heads up” and BAM! one of the boys hit the suit really hard as they passed him again to get off.

    No point. Just a story.

  • 438. Alfie  |  June 19, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    Tex @ 411 sparked some interest so I went walkies in the inter webs and apparently Russia denies it pretty strongly.
    Russia and China held first ever naval exercises in the early spring but that was comprised of 16 Chinese Navy vessels and about 8 Russian Navy vessels. I’m gonna say Iran is up to causing some crazy talk/propaganda.
    However if you like foreign policy regards stock tips I’m thinking flirting with the BRIC’s is still a good idea. The news that is more newsworthy out of G20 in my opinion is the appearance of Putin getting the upper hand with giving up little.
    Russia is gonna get favored nation status trading rights plus pats on the backs power wise and in return they’ll alter only slightly their Syria stance and firm up on Iran.
    Feel that uncomfortable pushing on your backside Uncle Sam? That’s the Bear doing the wild thing on you.

  • 439. Alfie  |  June 19, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    Folks riot over ball games too.

  • 440. nagic  |  June 19, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    Nagic+-
    , do you condemn Jesus and the New Testament because some with crosses hanging from their neck have tortured, slaughtered and raped? Or do you see them for what they are, a brutal perversion of an otherwise worthy cause?

    First, I don’t make the often Leftist mistake (purposeful) of trying to apply today’s morality with yesterdays action. Looking back with today’s morality as your kind often does to have any chance of making a point, of course it looks bad. But we are a different people today than we were back then.

    Second, why would I condemn Jesus for anything? There is nothing I have read in his actions that would give me a moments pause. The actions of the people were in accordance of the times and our level of civilization.

    So I then have to ask the point of your question?

  • 441. El Tigre  |  June 19, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    Muffy, it’s even worse in my mind when the intimidation occurs in the arrest and indictment, ala Zimmerman.

  • 442. thorsaurus  |  June 19, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    “That’s a lot of cow, ain’t it, Tracy?”

    I’ve heard of giving 110% but never 150%. ;)

    On my Dad’s side it’s pretty cut and dry, a Danish and Norwegian split. But on Mom’s side, I’m a mutt. Basque, Welsh, German, more Dane and the aforementioned BF among others.

    Never heard of a Poland-China hog. Are those the ones that are half gray, half pink?

  • 443. El Tigre  |  June 19, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    “Folks riot over ball games too.”

    Obviously the game “causes” the riots.

  • 444. Tex Taylor  |  June 19, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    I told Rutherford this four years ago on another blog. I stand by the statement.

    “I’m more afraid of what happens if Obama fails than I am of him succeeding…”

    Juries in. Obama epically failed; miserably failed; abjectly failed. It’s a disgrace and contemptible this race is even close. It shows just how misled this nation now is. Especially, the post racial bullshit that Obama and his crowd promised us. Not 90 days into Obama’s miserable first and hopefully last term, the race card was being pulled by MSNBC, Wapo, NYSlimes, and PuffHO.

    I stand by that statement above now more than ever. There will be trouble if Obama loses in a close one. And the blame will rest with the race hustlers and wigwams like Donaldson who have been making accusations of racism for 4 years now.

    If they’ll pull the race card stunt on Serial Bill and Hillary Rotten Clinton, you can be assured they’ll pull it on anyone.

  • 445. Tex Taylor  |  June 19, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    Anybody here besides me use Amazon much? I’ve had pretty good luck and the prices are decent, but on occasion, there shipment methods are a joke.

    I ordered a wall timer switch two weeks ago to turn on an outdoor light on at a selected time. It has worked well. So I order a second one last week. This one was cheaper and it came from a different Ohio source, same model.

    The tracking system said “in transit” before the afternoon I ordered was through and “left warehouse.” Their window for delivery is June 21 – July 9th.

    WTH? What are they delivering by? A Mars trip? Voyager?

  • 446. El Tigre  |  June 19, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    Tex, from personal observation, I think the race-bating when it comes to Obama is slowly but surely falling on deaf ears — even in the black community. I have heard more black acquaintances vocally expressing their disappointment in Obama. The gay announcement really through some of the comments over the edge.

    At the end of the day, the black community knows he hasn’t done anything for it — other than exploit and fan the flames of racial division for personal gain.

    The black community may not support Romney, but Obama has given it plenty of reason to stay home (a/k/a “not cover his back”).

  • 447. Tex Taylor  |  June 19, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    Shited. Their/there. Sigh.

  • 448. El Tigre  |  June 19, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    “Their window for delivery is June 21 – July 9th.”

    Would that be G-chin’s USPS?

  • 449. thorsaurus  |  June 19, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    Not me.

    Fair enough. I guess I was referring to R. Continue.

  • 450. El Tigre  |  June 19, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    “through/threw”

  • 451. El Tigre  |  June 19, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    “Fair enough. I guess I was referring to R. Continue.”

    R only says that when he wants out of the discussion.

    He jumps back in to let us know he’s prejudged the case if it supports his version of “liberal justice.”

  • 452. Tex Taylor  |  June 19, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    I’ve got a black neighbor, good gal, who is aghast at how bad Obama has been, Tigre. We’ve walked the pooches together a few times. Of course, she’s more Conservative than I am so I have no idea how representative her feelings are of the black community. Probably, not very.

    I think you’re right. Obama’s game is political expediency. He couldn’t be a greeter at Walmart without a teleprompter. The guy is a total lightweight and fraud. Some of his basic tendencies I find downright fascist.

    I know politicians are for the most part narcissistic charlatans and self-aggrandizing megaphones, but good grief. Obama is a one trick pony. His empty speeches sound like the last four years never transpired. It’s the same empty rhetoric with a nastier twist.

    That hope and change baloney, though? It’s flew out the window. Now it’s divide and conquer. And I don’t think the message is flying in most circles. We shall see.

  • 453. Tex Taylor  |  June 19, 2012 at 2:36 pm

    “Their window for delivery is June 21 – July 9th.”

    Would that be G-chin’s USPS?

    :lol: Sounds like Yeller Dawg has taken over the route.

  • 454. an800lbgorilla  |  June 19, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    Muffy, maybe it is hyphenated?

  • 455. El Tigre  |  June 19, 2012 at 2:41 pm

    Tex, everything at the moment appears to me to be “test messages,” including the claimed Biden-induced gay marriage announcement. Everything has gone splat becuase it is all intended to avoid his record — the one R and Thor find so outstanding. :lol: The silence is too deafening to ignore for most everyone, including his former supporters whose egos aren’t so invested in his re-election becuase of their 2008 delirium.

  • 456. El Tigre  |  June 19, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    “Sounds like Yeller Dawg has taken over the route.” :lol: :lol:

    Then July 9 sounds entirely too ambitious.

  • 457. thorsaurus  |  June 19, 2012 at 2:44 pm

    “Oh! Blackfoot, Thor? For real? They’re badass.”

    They “were” badass. Kind of the assholes of the Northern Plains. Some say Chief Joseph “allowed” the capture of his people just short of the Canadian border because if they crossed they would of had to deal with the Blackfeet.

    But now they are just an empty, tragic shell of a culture. Anyone that has visited Browning knows what I mean.

  • 458. El Tigre  |  June 19, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    G amd Muffy, I wonder whther you;re getting hung up on the British spelling. :lol:

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fuck%20wad&defid=327162

  • 459. muffy  |  June 19, 2012 at 2:47 pm

    “…their shipment methods are a joke.”

    Tex, I use them, but only when I don’t need to rely on them. Like a kayak paddle in January, that kind of thing.

    I once tracked a package from Carol Stream, IL to Hoboken, NJ to Kansas City, MO back to IL (can’t recall the city) and it finally got to Chicago a week before it was thrown on the lobby floor under the mailboxes.

    But standing in line here is fun city on a Saturday.

    http://s3-media2.ak.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/9OCdJFxELf5F9jgxVjGYsg/l.jpg

  • 460. muffy  |  June 19, 2012 at 2:52 pm

    Whoa it is one word. Don’t I feel like an ass.

    *hurriedly looks up twatwaffle*

  • 461. thorsaurus  |  June 19, 2012 at 3:32 pm

    How do you see the tea party, Thor? – Muffy

    I think they started grass roots. I never attended a rally but they had fairly good attendance and coverage here at first. They spoke of cutting defense as well as entitlements. But soon they were co-opted and it became social cuts only. I think they have put up some horrific candidates, but at least they tried. I think some tea party people vote against their own best interest. “Get your gov’t hands off my medicare.”

    Despite 2010, I think Romney’s nomination shows the Tea Party still doesn’t run things, but the true test will be how many of their candidates are retained. I once posted a blurb that it was time for the TP to put up or shut up. I think they have yet to do either, legislatively.

    I think the best thing that could happen to this country would be if the Tea Party and OWS could combine forces to get money out of elections. Then we could have a true debate and, heaven forbid, actually solve some problems.

    I have enjoyed calling them “tea baggers”. Once I realized how truly offensive that was to some, I stopped doing that.

  • 462. PFesser  |  June 19, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    Thor -

    Poland-China hog

    http://media-1.web.britannica.com/eb-media/37/115037-004-98AC6541.jpg

    Never had those kind on the farm. Can’t remember what we had. I just remember that when we bought a pig in the spring, my dad always said, “Don’t name the pig; we’re going to eat him.” LOL

  • 463. an800lbgorilla  |  June 19, 2012 at 3:48 pm

    Oh Lord, that was good ET. Twatwaffle if new on me- or maybe it isn’t? 8) – so I’ll have to look see that…

  • 464. Rutherford  |  June 19, 2012 at 3:49 pm

    LOL I hope Gorilla wasn’t disappointed when he called into the show today. Sandi needed to take the day off so she wasn’t around to get pissed at his call. :-)

  • 465. thorsaurus  |  June 19, 2012 at 4:12 pm

    “First, I don’t make the often Leftist mistake (purposeful) of trying to apply today’s morality with yesterdays action. Looking back with today’s morality as your kind often does to have any chance of making a point, of course it looks bad.” – Nagic

    How far back am I looking? Is there a steaming pile of OWS on a cop car outside your window? There are certainly still cases of churches covering up pedophilia.

    “Second, why would I condemn Jesus for anything? There is nothing I have read in his actions that would give me a moments pause.” – N

    Exactly. His ideals are not tainted by the actions of others that associate themselves with him.

    “So I then have to ask the point of your question?” – N

    Because it easier and much more fun to watch you make my points for me. ;)

  • 466. thorsaurus  |  June 19, 2012 at 4:27 pm

    Poland-China hog – PF

    Thanks for the picture. Stout. Lift those ears and sharpen that nose a little and you’d have the Akita I had years ago, curly tail and all.

    “Don’t name the pig; we’re going to eat him.” LOL

    I think he should have let you name them, appropriately, of course.
    Frank or Patty would do. :)

  • 467. thorsaurus  |  June 19, 2012 at 4:33 pm

    I have to go. My wife’s Grandma is having surgery. It was moved up, but now it’s being delayed, while the “robot” is being repaired. WTF??!!!

  • 468. James  |  June 19, 2012 at 4:37 pm

    I’ve visited Browning, Montana thor. You are right. The Lakota Sioux were also nothing to mess with. The Black Hills are their sacred land because they took it from the Kiowa.

    The Rosebud Reservation in South Dakota is no bed of roses either.

    I agree with some of what thor wrote. My wife and I attended some meetings. The opinions were quite diverse. Omaha had two competing Tea Parties. Their hostility toward each other was palitable.

    I think their influence has been greater than thor believes. Some of their candidates have been effective, but there are too few of them to do much more than obstruct policies.

    They have also produced some bad candidates. If they had made better choices, the Senate might be under Republican control or tied.

    As for money, we already know how the press attempted to make George Zimmerman into a racist who shot a pubescent boy. The Democrats’ and labor unions attempt to destroy Scott Walker is still fresh in our minds.

    Now MSNBC has edited tape at a Wawa restaurant to show Romney to be out of touch after the Obama unwittingly showed that he is. Money helps reveal a semblance of truth.

    We wouldn’t need all of that money if the press was honest and we were able to hear candidates’ true positions. But we can’t. Until the playing field is even, the money should flow. Right now, money is the best way the Republicans have to get their point across.

  • 469. James  |  June 19, 2012 at 4:38 pm

    Good luck to your wife’s grandmother.

  • 470. nagic  |  June 19, 2012 at 4:38 pm

    sorry thor, i am sure you impressed yourself, but your message escaped me. If you happen to find it within yourself to articulate your own point rather than to try and score some booty points with Rutherford, you let me know.

  • 471. dead rabbit  |  June 19, 2012 at 4:59 pm

    We live in a bizarre sci fi world where ordinary citizens get to have their own tv shows, radio shows, magazines, newspapers etc. A motherfucker can dance like a clown or a kid can complain about his buzz leaving the dentist office and become famous. All the while we are linked like a hive of wasps on social networking sites. I could grab a microphone, lift my right leg and fart resulting in a video gone viral on 5 million lap tops or cell phones. Our elections are not ruined because of money. They are ruined because we suck as a people. We have no excuses.

  • 472. James  |  June 19, 2012 at 5:45 pm

    Betsy’s page says that one of the women paid to heckle Romney is getting $7.25 per hour, but an unknown organization is paying a man $17.00 per hour. That’s bizarre. What is wrong with equal pay?

    We don’t suck any more than other people . We are only human. Its who we are.

  • 473. poolman  |  June 19, 2012 at 6:14 pm

    Betsy Page? Guess I better catch up on comments. Meanwhile:

  • 475. poolman  |  June 19, 2012 at 7:11 pm

  • 476. poolman  |  June 19, 2012 at 7:14 pm

  • 477. dead rabbit  |  June 19, 2012 at 7:22 pm

    I’m saying if we can’t make democracy work now, despite each and everyone of us being equipped with a media reach that would have made NBC salvate under 20 years ago, we suck. I hear this crying about money all the time. Theoretically, it shouldn’t be an issue any more. I predict a president being elected by a 100% grass roots background a decade or two from now. The first viral president. No political machine behind him or her. A decentralized media no match for the wasps’ nest of social networks. Now the question is whether this will be a disaster or not.

  • 478. Rutherford  |  June 19, 2012 at 8:05 pm

    75% of blacks think Noah has some advantage over them. But hate? No way.

    Don’t know whether that was sarcastic Rabbit but hate is a very strong word. Believe me with all of Noah’s whining 75% of blacks ignore Noah even more than they ignore Tex. :-)

  • 479. Rutherford  |  June 19, 2012 at 8:12 pm

    I know blacks in general hate whites, because they told me so.

    Yeah I’m sure “they” was a statistically significant sample. :roll:

  • 480. Alfie  |  June 19, 2012 at 8:14 pm

    @dead rabbit I think your prediction can only come true after things get substantially worse. You’re correct we do suck. The people in the West are absolutely pathetic when it comes to harnessing the technology we all take for granted. I told Rutherford once something along this line:. Egypt et al use Twitter to start a revolution we do stupid shit.

    As for blacks…I got to come down on the side that at least 50%- 75% have far more pressing issues than whitey.

  • 481. Rutherford  |  June 19, 2012 at 8:16 pm

    If you cant be bothered to do your homework and back your claims with facts, then … bla bla bla

    You conveniently ignored my question. Please find for me the OWS manifesto that cites rape and murder as an avenue to achieve their goals. I bet you can’t. ;-)

  • 482. Rutherford  |  June 19, 2012 at 8:18 pm

    Tex, last headline I saw said Russian ships delivering helicopters headed back home. Putin may be nasty but he ain’t crazy.

  • 483. Rutherford  |  June 19, 2012 at 8:21 pm

    New restaurant ad:

    “Our fried chicken is so good, you’ll climb over a corpse to get it!”

  • 484. Rutherford  |  June 19, 2012 at 8:25 pm

    the several attempts at government encroachments so overweening that they have been struck down 9-0 by a normally divided Supreme Court

    What’s Klavin smoking? I’m not aware of the Supremes striking down a damn thing yet, certainly not by 9-0. Did the Obamacare decision come out while I wasn’t paying attention?

  • 485. Rutherford  |  June 19, 2012 at 8:31 pm

    Imagine if OJ were found guilty.

    All that’s needed is an event.

    Zimmerman is another one with potential.

    Tigre how can you not see the total lack of logic in what you just said? Many blacks mistakenly thought OJ was innocent and that a racist cop was involved in railroading him. His conviction would be CAUSE for a riot … reaction to perceived injustice.

    Many blacks think Z racially profiled Martin and nearly got a free pass from a police force that was perceived to be racist. While I don’t agree that his acquittal will prompt riots, it it does … again CAUSE … reaction to perceived injustice.

    Now let me repeat … proper reaction? No.

    Now if you want to suggest that if the weather in Florida tops 110 degrees the blacks there will use that as an excuse to riot, well then we can have a conversation about black folk just looking for an “excuse” to misbehave.

  • 486. Rutherford  |  June 19, 2012 at 8:33 pm

    Pack up the babies and grab the old ladies, and everyone goes.

    Reminds me of a Neil Diamond song. :-)

  • 487. Rutherford  |  June 19, 2012 at 8:36 pm

    Of course it is (bullshit). The riots were nothing if not entirely regrettable.

    Muffy, I love you in an already married sort of way but that was a nonsequiter. The acquittal can indeed cause the riot and the riot be entirely regrettable. The two are not mutually exclusive.

  • 488. Alfie  |  June 19, 2012 at 8:38 pm

    Rutherford #486 see my # 438. No…Putin really is a prick,it’s just he’s a wily prick.

  • 489. Alfie  |  June 19, 2012 at 8:41 pm

    Rutherford folks of every shade are always looking for an “excuse” to misbehave. I think we shouldn’t discount that people are a) dirt baggie enough in the first place b) yet smart enough to know they need the overt catalyst either real or trumped up.

  • 490. Alfie  |  June 19, 2012 at 8:43 pm

    Isn’t riot regret really just tied to the objective reality of waking up and noticing you helped torched your hood?

  • 491. Rutherford  |  June 19, 2012 at 8:45 pm

    ROTFLMAO … Tigre you ARE right. Eugene Robinson does sound like Kermit the Frog. :lol:

    As for the Romney edit, two wrongs don’t make a right but we all know it’s done all the time including by conservative media outlets.

    But thanks for posting the full video because I actually LIKED that Romney. I thought his anecdote about state competition and the lack of competition with the Fed (besides other countries) was very well communicated.

  • 492. Alfie  |  June 19, 2012 at 8:47 pm

    But we are a different people today than we were back then.
    Not really.

  • 493. an800lbgorilla  |  June 19, 2012 at 8:49 pm

    Ahhhhhhhh, the beverage of the evening…

  • 494. Rutherford  |  June 19, 2012 at 8:51 pm

    I thought we were done with Z until the verdict.

    So did I. But as they say in the Godfather, every time I try to get out, they pull me back in.

  • 495. Rutherford  |  June 19, 2012 at 8:55 pm

    Muffy, you ended your b’s with i’s. That’s why the bold facing just kept going and going and going. I fixed them.

  • 496. Rutherford  |  June 19, 2012 at 8:58 pm

    I’m thinking flirting with the BRIC’s is still a good idea.

    Hey Alfie, I read somewhere that Mexico (believe it or not) is poised to surpass Brazil economically.

  • 497. James  |  June 19, 2012 at 9:00 pm

    Poolman, I’m glad Wall Street is switching to Romney. Those commentaters weren’t crying during the last cycle when Obama was raising a fortune. I feel hyprocacy.

    You might like Betsy’s Page. She is a North Carolina teacher who posts a variety of stories. She is a conservative.

    I agree, five friends was not statistically significant, Rutherford, my conclusions come from years of observation. Its what in groups do. I made friends on other bases and got the same undercurrent after they got to know me. One man told another that he “Knew” whites made fun of blacks when they were alone. The man denied it. My friend asked me privately if the man was telling the truth, and I told him he was lying. It didn’t happen all of the time–about as often as blacks mocked whites.

    We know men occasionally make fun of women when no women are around. I trained gray ladies at one base, and we got tight. They were so comfortable with me that they visited as if I wasn’t there. They made more fun of men than whites or blacks did of each other, and they were nastier. I felt like a spy after what I heard about their husbands and boy friends.

    At least some blacks dislike whites. Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, and several other states had groups of young black men randomly beating up whites on “Lets get Whitey” nights at state fairs.

    I’ve been around. Scots and Welsh don’t like the English, and Irish border on hatred. Ukrainians resent Russians. A Dutchman said “You know the Germans are all pigs.” Koreans don’t like Japanese. Finns hate Swedes. A Swede said Finish women were mongoloid mongrels, and he hated their slanted eyes. A Finn said there were no true blonds in Sweden. Swedish so- called blonds looked like dead rabbits. Both sides accused the other of polluting their gene pool.

    Do you see the pattern I do? I don’t believe it is entirely racial or sexual. Each angry group was oppressed or victimized by the main object of their disdain. People have long memories. I don’t believe all Finns or all blacks hate all whites, but a survey would be statistically significant–maybe a quarter. I have no idea.

    John Travolta’s character in Saturday Night Fever discussed the phenenomon after he gave a dancing trophy he felt he hadn’t earned to the second place Hispanic couple.

  • 498. Rutherford  |  June 19, 2012 at 9:07 pm

    Obviously the game “causes” the riots.

    You tremendously enjoy being thick … probably because you know it gets my goat. Tigre, do post-game riots get started by fans of the winning team?

    A riot is like a forest fire. Some disappointment (the strike of the match) gets a few knuckleheads reacting in totally inappropriate ways (the spark) and then all those nearby have to decide to run or join in. When most join in, as is often the case, you get the riot (forest fire).

    You continue to make the mistake of thinking that when cause yields an inappropriate and sometimes nonsensical effect, then there can therefore be no connection between cause and effect. That’s just not true.

  • 499. James  |  June 19, 2012 at 9:16 pm

    486, yep Rutherford, “Brother Love’s Traveling Salvation Show” Now the thing is running through my head. Trollabundin, to Neal Diamond.

    496, I hope its true, Rutherford. It is a reason fewer Mexicans are moving to the United States. Maybe the next trend will be for Anglos to move to Mexico.

    491. That’s why MSNBC didn’t want us to see the complete version.

    477. Democracies don’t work for the long term. Humans are too predatory. Maybe we will get it right some day.

  • 500. Alfie  |  June 19, 2012 at 9:17 pm

    @496 yeah you’re right I don’t believe it. I’m in the camp that thinks Brazil will stay strong and Mexico will be seen as a failed state soon.

  • 501. Alfie  |  June 19, 2012 at 9:21 pm

    Rutherford 498 I find the comment confusing.
    You ask:

    do post-game riots get started by fans of the winning team?

    Boston Red Sox,LA Lakers a number of other teams pro win the Big One=riot.
    Vancouver Canucks lost=riot.

  • 502. nagic  |  June 19, 2012 at 9:30 pm

    You conveniently ignored my question. Please find for me the OWS manifesto that cites rape and murder as an avenue to achieve their goals. I bet you can’t.

    I understand it is the Leftist policy to let others do your work for you, so I understand why you choose this approach. As a business man, I like to cut away all your leftist bullshit, ie your manifesto, and just go with the end results. End of the day it doesnt matter what they did or didnt say they stood for, its what they did.

    Lets take a look at the Tea Party vs OWS. Who did more with the least amount of violence? Tea party accomplished more with less violence than any other movement in our countries history. That’s just how Republicans roll. OWS created more violence and crime and accomplished less than almost any other political movement in our countries history. That’s just how you leftists roll.

  • 503. nagic  |  June 19, 2012 at 9:37 pm

    Imagine if OJ were found guilty.

    All that’s needed is an event.

    Zimmerman is another one with potential.

    Tigre how can you not see the total lack of logic in what you just said? Many blacks mistakenly thought OJ was innocent and that a racist cop was involved in railroading him. His conviction would be CAUSE for a riot … reaction to perceived injustice.

    I have to side with Rutherford on this one. If you look at the Leftist point of view, they are not responsible for their actions, they are the victim of their circumstances. Why would you ever suspect that they should be held accountable for their their actions? Do you think they have free will or something?

  • 504. dead rabbit  |  June 19, 2012 at 9:43 pm

    Lol. Nagic is dead right in his comparison of the TP to OWS.

  • 505. Tex Taylor  |  June 19, 2012 at 9:45 pm

    Revisit your memory, Rutherford. Obama has at least united the Supreme Court if nobody else:

    http://grok.typepad.com/life/2012/01/obama-unites-the-supreme-court.html

  • 506. Alfie  |  June 19, 2012 at 10:13 pm

    Its a real shame the topic of riots is getting such short service amongst the group here. There’s a little bit of right in any number of the views. Civil disorder is a reality in the collective history of humanity.
    On a Zimerman/Martin related note:

    The press, television, and radio can play their part. Good reporting of constructive efforts in the field of race relations will be a major service to the community. We urge all media to report equally the good and the bad – the accomplishments of Negroes as well as the failures; the assistance offered to Negroes by the public and private sectors as well as the rejections.
    In our study of the chronology of the riots, we gave considerable attention to the reporting of inflammatory incidents which occurred in the initial stage of the Los Angeles riots. It is understandably easy to report the dramatic and ignore the constructive; yet the highest traditions of a free press involve responsibility as well as drama. We urge that members of all media meet and consider whether there might be wisdom in the establishment of guide lines, completely voluntary on their part, for reporting of such disasters. Without restricting their essential role of carrying the news to the public fairly and accurately, we believe news media may be able to find a voluntary basis for exercising restraint and prudence in reporting inflammatory incidents. This has been done successfully elsewhere.

    That’s the summary of the media section of the official report released after the Watts riots. I don’t think the media showed any sense of history.

  • 507. poolman  |  June 19, 2012 at 10:28 pm

    James,

    Wall Street is not our advocate. If they are backing him, they expect a serious ROI. Goldman Sachs sets his gait. That puts him opposed to the ‘common man’. That continues the debt enslavement. I’d like to see the Goldman Sachs crowd serving time for crime. Romney with his immoral soul is Obama on steroids.

    OWS and TPM have overlapping ideals. Mostly they advocate for a return to justice and the rule of the land as the constitution articulates. The real freedom movement hasn’t gone away. It’s still evolving.

    One person has faithfully carried the torch into the present better than most and he’s willing to carry it as long as he can. I put my support in that camp. He is pushing a Fed audit and still gaining delegates. I understand he won 21 out of 25 in Iowa.

  • 508. El Tigre  |  June 19, 2012 at 10:31 pm

    “Tigre how can you not see the total lack of logic in what you just said?”

    Because none exists.

    R, you’re just playing dumb again and I will not spend the time to walk you through the most obvious of “cause an effect” logic for you to deliberately misinterpret again.

    But to make MY point, fans for winning teams riot at least as frequently if not more so than the losers.

    You know, sometimes seeing other people riot causes a riot.

    Gawd. Being lectured about logic by someone bereft of any — that’s YOU — makes me want to burn down a building or beat a Korean grocer.

  • 509. dead rabbit  |  June 19, 2012 at 10:49 pm

    Wow. Rutherford the House Cat is so detached he thinks most sports riots are when the team loses! Dude. Rutherford. Are you Belky from Perfect Strangers? What the fuck?

  • 510. El Tigre  |  June 19, 2012 at 10:55 pm

    “Are you Belky from Perfect Strangers? What the fuck?”

    That’s cracking me up.

    DR, you are one of kind.

    Thankfully.

  • 511. dead rabbit  |  June 19, 2012 at 10:57 pm

    As I’ve probably mentioned before, my family caught trapped in the 84 Detroit World Series riot. I was scared to death because I could sense my parents were too. I saw a crowd flip a police car and fire bomb it. After the 67 Riots the city came together when the Tigers won in 68. I think my parents thought the same thing was going to happen in 84. Boy were they wrong.

  • 512. El Tigre  |  June 19, 2012 at 11:03 pm

    “As for the Romney edit, two wrongs don’t make a right but we all know it’s done all the time including by conservative media outlets.”

    Didn’t MSNBC just get thrashed for editing the Zimmerman 911 tape?

    Awwwww, there I go again!

  • 513. poolman  |  June 19, 2012 at 11:12 pm

    Most of the time riots and violence is incited. The media stirs them up and defines them. I think that is their purpose today. Control the message and subsequent reaction with an intended gain. Herding cattle.

    If the Zimmerman trial doesn’t go down a certain way, the mob has already been divided and energized by the ‘news’ media. It will react against each other as intended. Keeping us at each other’s throats and off of theirs and their affairs the goal.

    We are doomed unless we catch on quick and repent.

  • 514. El Tigre  |  June 19, 2012 at 11:14 pm

    Alfie, I recall in college I had a professor that was making an extensive study of British hooliganism. I never read his final product, but I do recall trying to think of an American corollary and coming up short. I still find it to be a the damndest phenomenon.

  • 515. dead rabbit  |  June 19, 2012 at 11:32 pm

    I got caught up in a mob mentality once. This car load of dudes showed up at my highschool for a one on one fight with someone from our school. The fight lasted about 30 seconds before security broke it up. It turned out these guys were really into ninja stuff. They had so many weapons, num chucks, clubs, etc. that our security guard couldn’t hold them all. He actually handed the weapons to the quiet, good kids in the crowd because he couldn’t hold them all. They attacked the car. We ended up beating the hell out of kids and utterly destroyed the car. I remember this rush that came over me as I took part in the mob. It made the local paper.

  • 516. dead rabbit  |  June 19, 2012 at 11:42 pm

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2161817/Obamas-grandfather-Stanley-Armour-Dunham-tortured-British.html

    Man. If this is true how doesn’t this bother even his supporters?

  • 517. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 12:53 am

    Tex, regarding Amazon, I buy from them all the time and I’ve experienced nothing but good things regarding shipment. In fact I never pay for rush shipment cos stuff always arrives faster than expected. These results may differ when using an Amazon third party vendor.

  • 518. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 1:04 am

    I think they have yet to do either, legislatively.

    Thor they got our credit rating lowered. It might not be legislative power but they sure can influence things … for the worst in that case.

  • 519. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 1:21 am

    sorry thor, i am sure you impressed yourself, but your message escaped me. If you happen to find it within yourself to articulate your own point rather than to try and score some booty points with Rutherford, you let me know.

    Thor, you’re arguing with a man who has proven he is challenged with the English language. Keep trying but be prepared to bang your head against the wall in frustration. Best thoughts go out to your grandmother-in-law.

    Aside to Noah … here it is in tiny pieces for you to swallow easily … you don’t judge a movement by its most deranged followers. I don’t say Jesus and his millions of followers are debased because some priests can’t keep their hands off little boy’s penises. Similarly I don’t judge an economic equity movement by bad actors who sh*t on cop cars, deal drugs or kill/rape.

    So let’s try one more time Noah –

    Christianity good — Pedo priests bad
    OWS good — opportunistic criminals bad

    And once again Noah let’s see if you can come up with something other than police blotter headlines … but now I’ll double the assignment since you’re tardy with the first assignment I gave you:

    Show me in the Bible where it says priests should f*ck little boys.
    Then show me in any OWS statement of purpose where it says it’s members should rob, kill, rape and deal drugs.

  • 520. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 1:26 am

    Our elections are not ruined because of money. They are ruined because we suck as a people. We have no excuses.

    There is indeed a connection between what we get and what we crave. Negative ads work. Otherwise we wouldn’t see them. Stupid sh*t like Romney’s dog on a car roof trumps the fact that he said he learned in 2004 not to be too specific in policy statements so he doesn’t have to be held to them.

    We want the circus and we get the circus.

  • 521. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 1:46 am

    As for blacks…I got to come down on the side that at least 50%- 75% have far more pressing issues than whitey.

    Hear, hear, Alfie! Can I infer from your comment that 50 to 75% of them KNOW that they have far more pressing issues than whitey?

  • 522. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 1:48 am

    Rutherford #486 see my # 438. No…Putin really is a prick,it’s just he’s a wily prick.

    I saw something bordering on chilling today. A video of Obama with Medvedev was followed by a video of Obama with Putin. With Medvedev it was all smiles and buddy buddy. With Putin it was a death stare. Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeut!

  • 523. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 1:57 am

    James I’d be a fool to say no blacks hate whites. Blacks are as capable of bigotry as anyone else. And for every white who “suspects” a black until proven otherwise there is a black who probably doesn’t trust a white any further than he can throw him. This is a product of this country’s original sin.

    It’s interesting that my sociology course is making the point I’ve made about forced immigration and its effect on a community. There is also the interesting phenomenon of culture trumping race. When Southern blacks migrated north to escape Jim Crow they brought their ignorant Southern ways with them and contaminated a Northern upwardly mobile class of blacks. The lowest common denominator prevailed and we get Newark, Compton and Detroit as a result. :-(

  • 524. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 2:01 am

    Brother Love’s Traveling Salvation Show

    Excellent James … you NAILED it! I wonder if that was what Muffy had in mind or if it was just coincidence?

    One thing I love about this blog is talking about music with guys and gals who are more or less from my era. My sister (11 years younger) and my daughter frustrate the crap out of me with their ignorance of the great artists of the 60′s and early 70′s. My wife, 7 years younger, is better but even she doesn’t share my passion for what now passes as “the oldies”. (LOL to my mind, the oldies will always be the 50′s but I guess I’m in denial.)

  • 525. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 2:04 am

    Boston Red Sox,LA Lakers a number of other teams pro win the Big One=riot.

    Were those riots started respectively by Red Sox and Lakers fans? I doubt it. Unless the “celebration” went awry.

  • 526. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 2:05 am

    End of the day it doesnt matter what they did or didnt say they stood for, its what they did.

    Thanks for proving my and Thor’s point. Catholics believe in pedophilia. Case closed.

  • 527. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 2:07 am

    I have to side with Rutherford on this one.

    I know whenever you “agree” with me, a bitch-slap is on the way.

  • 528. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 2:11 am

    The Obama administration maintained that the police shouldn’t need warrants

    This from some unknown blogger Tex who didn’t document his claim. When has the Obama admin ever claimed the police don’t need a warrant?

  • 529. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 2:15 am

    I understand he won 21 out of 25 in Iowa.

    Poolman, I mentioned this on my radio show today. It must really burn your shorts that Paul won the Iowa caucus but didn’t get credit for it at a time when it could have given him momentum going into New Hampshire. If I were you, I’d be royally pissed.

  • 530. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 2:17 am

    Being lectured about logic by someone bereft of any — that’s YOU — makes me want to burn down a building or beat a Korean grocer.

    Hey, cause and effect … no telling what will set a guy off. ;-)

  • 531. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 2:21 am

    Rutherford. Are you Belky from Perfect Strangers? What the fuck?

    When it comes to sports (or “sport” as Romney would say), yes I am. Or would I give myself away if I answered: “Well, of course not, don’t be ridi-cool-us.”

  • 532. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 2:34 am

    Rabbit, what is odd is that The Daily Mail’s URL for that story is wrong. It was Obama’s PATERNAL grandfather who was supposedly tortured BY the British … not that his MATERNAL grandfather tortured the British.

    With that factoid set straight, no I’m not particularly bothered by it. Maraniss’ book is getting lots of credit because he is viewed as a fair and objective journalist. This bio of Obama is supposedly one of the truest published yet … doesn’t make him a saint but doesn’t make him a villain either. I can respect that.

    I’ve read that the book makes the point that unlike Clinton who wanted to be Pres from age 9, Obama had surprisingly little ambition as a youngster for someone who would wind up POTUS.

  • 533. an800lbgorilla  |  June 20, 2012 at 7:43 am

    OK, watch this and remember that 95% of blacks voted for Obama. Really, do we want to have a discussion about voting racially?

  • 534. PFesser  |  June 20, 2012 at 8:28 am

    re: Sandusky – this old boy is going down like the Thresher. I’d hate to be his sorry anus in jail (literally). My wife had an interesting take on it at dinner last night. She said that monsters exist and almost certainly he’s one, but SHE would like to walk up to his wife and slap hell out of her. “She knew – she had to – you can’t live with somebody that long and not know.” When I heard the testimony of the one boy who was in a children’s home, I nearly broke up. He said that, after he had done what he was supposed to for Mr. Sandusy, he ended up back in the children’s home. He waited and waited for Jerry – whom he worshipped – to come get him, but he never did. He never even wrote to him or answered his letters.

    There is a really good reason for prisons: to keep people like me from getting at people like Jerry Sandusky. It’s a good thing that I am not king of the world. A really good thing.

  • 535. PFesser  |  June 20, 2012 at 9:12 am

    By God, I just may move to Texas. And not just for the business climate.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501363_162-57456674/dad-wont-face-charges-in-alleged-attackers-death/?tag=re1.channel

  • 536. James  |  June 20, 2012 at 9:25 am

    In defense of Noah, the left judged the Tea Party by its worst members. Therefore, others have a legitimate reason for following the old rules. The obscene amounts of money spent on elections was good when Obama ran for president, and his supporters bragged about how much money he was raising. Now that the Republicans are attracting more money, all of that spending is bad.

    Liberals set the rules, and now they want to change them.

    Thanks, Rutherford. Muffy, was it a coincidence?

    I like the musical and other discussions too. Yes, the fifties are also oldies to me too. Its hard to believe I thought I was cool doing the Stroll. If you remember the Stroll, you are really old. Its too bad younger people can’t even identify the classics.

    Did you notice the word I typed behind Neil Diamond? it is a real word and sort of apropo. Earlier, I cited a link to Elvor singing “Trollabundin” It was mainly directed at thor, and he is probably the only one who watched the video.

    Evor was singing about a wizzard who had enchanted her and captured her soul with music. We don’t need wizzards to enchant us with music, do we?.

  • 537. Tex Taylor  |  June 20, 2012 at 9:29 am

    Sandusky is a monster and so are the cowardly scumbags that turned the other way because it might interfere with their lucrative career. So are these pedophile priests. And so are these pastors in the pulpit preaching against homosexuality on Sunday, rumping the rectum Saturday. All the lowest form of low and worthy of death in my book. Let the prisoners work them over – I understand there’s a special place for pedophiles in prison.

    Pfesser’s wife is right. Too many cowardly women are covering these practices up. Damn straight Sandusky’s wife knew it. I’m not insinuating all homos are monsters, but it sure seems a disproportionate share are. Many of them married as fronts for their predatory practice.

    The big pink commonality elephant in the room that nobody like MSNBC and PC Rutherford wants to talk about concerning these cases, though?

    They’re all queer.

    Feminine women, real women and not what passes for women on the Left, have a unique role in our world, Rutherford. Though in your world of the emasculated male like Chrissie Hayes and those things like Chaz Maddow, your world so upside down, you’ve even got your roles switched.

    Our country would fold tent in six months if you bunch of deviant pussies were left to your own accord. You’d make really nice movies and plays with pretty curtains in your house, until Abu skull fucked you to death.

    Real women tame the beast. It’s their innate role. Real men secretly dream of the Taliban being unleashed on Joyless Behar’s big, fat ass for egregious behavior.

  • 538. Tex Taylor  |  June 20, 2012 at 9:31 am

    Pfesser, speaking as sometimes Texan, it does my heart good to see a rapist bludgeoned to death, as even our women stood and cheered the decision. :grin:

  • 539. nagic  |  June 20, 2012 at 9:44 am

    you don’t judge a movement by its most deranged followers.

    The problem is Rutherford, is you dont judge them at all. You dont talk about them, you do not condemn their actions. You give them a total pass. How many thousands of crimes need to happen by your movement before you decide to take count? Lets be real..most of it happened to rich white people…or white women. They probably had it coming to them right? Those rich business owners..they deserved what they got…right? That is why you don speak out…because secretly you are cheering them on.

    Why is it the tea party could do so much more than your left wing radicals ever could and did so with almost zero violence? I dont expect you to answer, because …how does the saying go….you would rather look good and loose, than look bad and win?

    My challenge with the English language is I am dealing with an ignorant, dishonest person who had to take 1 word and hang his entire argument on it. You couldn’t admit my point so you went for the easy win. The fact you keep bringing this up tells me you are feeling just a touch insecure. Maybe it is starting to bother you a little when the time came to be the bigger man…you failed?

  • 540. James  |  June 20, 2012 at 9:47 am

    523 Rutherford, I’m glad your course is teaching the same things I learned in Sociology. I move a step further than that with the examples I cited to show that previous exploitation of a society creates underlying distrust and hostility lasting for generations. Even so, individuals while feeling a general disdain for another group accept individuals from that society to the point of intermarrying.

    I agree about the migration of southerners to the northern cities. However, they brought benefits too. Some of the migrants were rural blues men, and they sang their music in northern clubs where blacks congregated. They needed to play over the noise, so they invented electric blues. As you know this played a role in the evolution of Rock and Roll.

    While southern blacks brought their culture north, other groups imported their cultures. Our Dutch relatives, for example, live in a several county-wide Dutch ghetto. Most are very conservative and will warn a farmer not to work on
    Sunday. Everything used to shut down on Sunday. It was like visiting “The Village.”

    A study showed that Germans, British, and Bohemians favor different farming practices and inheritance traditions even now.

    American society is a rootless conglomeration of local populations who cling to their ancestors’ values because immigrant nations have no long-term traditions and values old source societies live by.. At least that’s what some Europeans think.

  • 541. nagic  |  June 20, 2012 at 9:54 am

    Show me in the Bible where it says priests should f*ck little boys.
    Then show me in any OWS statement of purpose where it says it’s members should rob, kill, rape and deal drugs.

    Rutherford you really need to pick up your Bible and read it. Seriously you are fucked up.

    I do not understand a person who has never seen the inside of a business office other than being called in to be fired to understand my answer so I will try again. You have one set of claims as to what OWS represents. Out in the real world we call them fantasy and lies. Many commentators have given opinions on what OWS represents.

    Because there are so many opinions, like you..i mean like assholes, everyone has one, so how do we pick? Well in my opinion we judge them by their actions. Their acts of crime are not isolated. Thousands upon thousands of crimes were committed. 1 or 2 or 10 or even 50 considering the scope, I could consider as not being representative of the group. But thousands and thousands? Sorry..my man…it counts.

  • 542. PFesser  |  June 20, 2012 at 9:55 am

    Tex -

    I would ask you to reconsider your position on queers. My experience has always been that of pretty nice fellows, generally well-educated, maybe a little hyper-sexed and promiscuous but not aggressive. Actually pretty funny for the most part. My gay employee told me one time, do you think I liked being pushed around and beaten on as a kid in school? Me trying to be straight would be like you trying to be a believer – you could say you are one all day but it wouldn’t change a thing. You can’t help it and neither can I, and I quit trying to deny it.

    My brother asked me once if I would let a queer babysit my two sons. I thought about it sincerely and told him that if I had to pick somebody at random, I would trust a queer with my boys a lot further than a straight guy with young girls, and I still feel the same way.

    Remember, this guy in Texas was after a little GIRL, not boy.

  • 543. James  |  June 20, 2012 at 9:55 am

    Poolman, I dont believe Wall Street is our advocate either. However, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. The people backing Obama are the greater threat, in my opinion.

  • 544. Tex Taylor  |  June 20, 2012 at 9:56 am

    Rutherford’s sociology class…. :twisted:

    Talk about extinguishing the roaring blaze with ether. Like a massive dosage of Microdot for the Poolman.

  • 545. nagic  |  June 20, 2012 at 9:59 am

    This is a product of this country’s original sin.

    Still riding that horse? Still the perpetual victim. How much money do you feel you are owed because your own people sold your ancestors into slavery?

    It’s interesting that my sociology course is making the point I’ve made about forced immigration and its effect on a community.

    I find it interesting that you choose to take a class that basically is a cheerleader to your cause. Maybe it will help with my aforementioned comments about self esteem.

    More interesting is that you do not agree with this countries premise that we are a nation of laws. That you feel it is unjust to back laws that we have on the books. Could you go a little further and explain why is it you feel we should not enforce the laws of the land?

  • 546. Tex Taylor  |  June 20, 2012 at 10:05 am

    I would ask you to reconsider your position on queers. My experience has always been that of pretty nice fellows, generally well-educated, maybe a little hyper-sexed and promiscuous but not aggressive.

    My experience has been just the opposite. I’ve worked for two queers now – both were highly intelligent and two of the most unstable, most corrupted, most pretentious people I’ve ever met. I had to bite my tongue (difficult for a cad like me) every day just to make it through the day because they were so unstable.

    And that was pretty much the consensus of the entire department, both times.

    I’m sure there are nice ones out there too. And you’re right – the rapist was molesting a little girl. And we pin a medal on the father as we should. One less pedophile.

    However, just to show you how disingenuous this entire argument has become, had it been a little boy, the reaction would have been entirely different across the nation. You would have heard of the troubled past, his daddy and mommy issues, Matthew Shepard, how he was bullied his entire life, wah wah wah.

    I’m tired of the duplicity.

  • 547. El Tigre  |  June 20, 2012 at 10:10 am

    “Were those riots started respectively by Red Sox and Lakers fans?”

    Yes Balky. And those that weren’t fans of anything other than and excuse to riot.

    Seeing the point yet? :roll:

  • 548. Tex Taylor  |  June 20, 2012 at 10:11 am

    Attorney general asks White House to exert executive privilege over Fast and Furious documents

    Corrupt to the core. Both of them. Border agents have been killed because of these men’s gross incompetence. Eric Holder should be in a penitentiary.

    Okay, all you Watergate, Irangate, Borkers, OWS goons, conspiratorial 9/11 Troofers, and other maggots.

    Where’s your outrage now, Lefties? Let’s see how much you slime dawgs really care about our legal system and justice like your always mouthing.

    Here’s my ante Rutherford goes looking for excuses of other bad behavior to justify the privilege.

  • 549. Tex Taylor  |  June 20, 2012 at 10:12 am

    Shited. You’re

  • 550. muffy  |  June 20, 2012 at 10:12 am

    The wife is lying. She’s still saying he didn’t do it.

    ~

    Would it be understandable to riot over the assertion of executive privilege over the Fast & Furious cover up?

  • 551. El Tigre  |  June 20, 2012 at 10:21 am

    Muffy FTW!

  • 552. Tex Taylor  |  June 20, 2012 at 10:22 am

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/20/obama-camp-demands-names-crossroads-gps-donors/

    You bet. As soon as you maggots from the Left publish everyone of those international credit card donor’s names from the 2008 Presidential race that were never followed up on by Holder and Co. – conveniently swept under the rug by the completely corrupted Dim National Committee.

    I am absolutely loving watching these feckless Dims scramble, getting beat at their own game. They are getting their naked nasty asses exposed all over Twitter too.

    Romney has run a hell of a campaign so far. Let’s hope he can keep this up for another 4 1/2 months.

    Punch back twice as hard.

  • 553. El Tigre  |  June 20, 2012 at 10:23 am

    Holder is a complete Fuck Wad.

    And twattwaffle with syrup.

    R, sees it as no big deal becuase Holder’s an extension of his Adonis.

    I’m going to go beat the shit out of handicapped for taking all the good parking spaces in my hood. Holder caused it. :lol:

  • 554. Tex Taylor  |  June 20, 2012 at 10:26 am

    Twatwaffle. :lol:

    Personally, I don’t think Holder deserves the moniker twatwaffle. Holder is a high priced, clear the room turd.

  • 555. El Tigre  |  June 20, 2012 at 10:32 am

    Muffy, I think we need a ruling on “Twatwaffle.”

  • 556. muffy  |  June 20, 2012 at 10:34 am

    I do think this morning’s events (re: Holder + Obama) illustrates to me that there is an important milestone between the “cause” of a jury verdict and the “effect” of a riot.

    I’m so mad right now I’ve got a good mind to turn off the computer and go for a bike ride.

  • 557. muffy  |  June 20, 2012 at 10:42 am

    RE: 555 – Ooh, I have to think about that. It’s a pretty bad moniker. Might be a good idea to hold on to that one just in case.

  • 558. James  |  June 20, 2012 at 11:27 am

    Poolman, the executive privilage that so upset muffy and is another illustration of my willingness to praise financial help from Wall Street etc.

    We are no longer ruled by laws. Criminals who are supposed to be our employees are dictating to us through selective enforcement of our laws and through fiat.

    Firing them with truck loads of money is preferable to other means which would endanger their health.

    I have been in riots where people smashed windows and set fires. The participants, at least if they are of college- age become a separate organism as they store their individually in a lock box.

    352. What Tex wrote.

  • 559. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 11:49 am

    This quote is for Pfesser in particular:

    “When one guy sees an invisible man, he’s a nut case; ten people see him, it’s a cult; ten million people see him, it’s a respected religion.” -Richard Jeni, comedian and actor (1957-2007)

  • 560. PFesser  |  June 20, 2012 at 11:51 am

    f I ever had any question about the November election, it is gone. Now it appears that the highest levels of government were involved in the illegal gun-running into Mexico by the Department of Justice – gun-running that cost the life of an American border agent. Obama invokes “executive privilege” to prevent Congress from knowing just what took place.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57456848-503544/white-house-grants-executive-privilege-over-fast-and-furious-documents/

    Bloody damned crooks, with the President hiding their crimes. Hell, maybe he’s involved. This reminds me SO much of Watergate; I know and I remember all about it, because I was THERE. Feh.

    (dup post @ Fat Grannies. They appear to not be having a good, er…century)

  • 561. PFesser  |  June 20, 2012 at 11:52 am

    If, not f

  • 562. PFesser  |  June 20, 2012 at 11:56 am

    Perhaps it’s time for a “special prosecutor” – just like in the Watergate era. Who knows? We might just get to see BO doing the perp-walk out of the Oval Office, with his coat over his head.

    Where the hell is Judge John Sirica when you need him? GRRR….these arrogant sonsofbitches just fry me. Goddammit, where is the Rule of Law in this screwed-up nation of ours? Are BO and his minions above the law?

  • 563. muffy  |  June 20, 2012 at 11:59 am

    Re: #359 – Are you so sure that Richard is still laughing now?

    PS…about as funny as it is original.

  • 564. Tex Taylor  |  June 20, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    Perhaps it’s time for a “special prosecutor” – just like in the Watergate era. Who knows? We might just get to see BO doing the perp-walk out of the Oval Office, with his coat over his head.

    Ahhhh…..

    I can barely keep two hands on the keyboard thinking about that beautiful sight. Carry Michelle Antoinette out on a spit with him, and I”ll do it in the front yard.

  • 565. muffy  |  June 20, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    Obama succeeds where Nixon failed – contempt for those you govern is going to become fashionable.

  • 566. James  |  June 20, 2012 at 12:24 pm

    I remember Watergate too. Obama has compared himself to multiple presidents, and now he is Nixonian. Yes, we need a special prosecutor.

    Good for the fat grannies’ bad century.. As Rev Wright said, “the chickens are coming home to roost.”

    When Henry Fonda’s character saw Harvey and had conversations with the giant rabbit, was he a nut? We in the audience watched Harvey with our own eyes.

  • 567. muffy  |  June 20, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    Severe clinical depression, psychotic paranoia, shot himself in the face. Got any more wisdom to share?

  • 568. Alfie  |  June 20, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    @566 James Stewart not Henry Fonda.
    @ Rutherford 523 theres a lot of over simplification in there brother not the least accepting the term “forced immigration”.

  • 569. Tex Taylor  |  June 20, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    Severe clinical depression, psychotic paranoia, shot himself in the face.

    I guess Jeni’s search for meaning and his arrogance didn’t do much for him now, did it?

    Imagine Jeni’s shock when he awoke only to find out who was standing over him for eternity? I want to give a buwahahahahaha but won’t. I don’t need to be smote for Schadenfreude ….

    Fabulous Rutherford. Sounds like a real winner. I’ll assure you there ain’t no RIP or party in a blast furnace.

    ————-

    That’s really the major difference between me and Rutherford, truth be known for all our shared faults.

    Tex picks Jesus
    Rutherford picks Jeni

    I really, really like my chances.

  • 570. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    PF regarding Sandusky, I’m just sorry Paterno got the easy way out. If there is a God he is hopefully rotting in hell or just waiting for Jerry to join him. It’s one thing to be in the throes of a pathology which I believe every pedophile is. It’s quite another to be “normal” and look the other way.

  • 571. thorsaurus  |  June 20, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    Thanks for your thoughts. Grandma made it through the surgery but still in ICU. The operation was for cancer, but she also had formed a brain blood clot making the surgery very dicy because of the blood pressure issues. Now it’s a matter if they got the cancer in time.

    Thanks for the advice about Nagic R, but I think I figured out how to get it down to his level.

    Nagic,

    Cat in the Hat is very cool.
    Thing One and Thing Two like hanging with Cat in the Hat but they also have a tendency to cause trouble and rip shit up.
    Does that make Cat in the Hat uncool?

    I predict your answer will sound something like the grumpy, tattletale fish in the bowl.

  • 572. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    They’re all queer.

    Damn for someone who attended a couple of years of med school you can be so damn ignorant Tex. Even I have read enough to know pedophilia sits in a box of its own, not directly related to homosexuality. The desire for a child trumps the desire for the same gender. Most “queers” have a normal desire to engage in sex with people their own age. Your comments are typical of attitudes that have dogged gays for decades. It’s 1950′s propaganda.

  • 573. Tex Taylor  |  June 20, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    So some of you leftist turds don’t believe me when I say Obama and henchmen aren’t socialists, but incompetent, arrogant fascists. Let me help prove it to the fair minded.

    Consider the last year:

    - The GSA scandal, in which bureaucrats charged with improving government efficiency decided to treat themselves to a hugely expensive lark in Vegas.

    - The Secret Service scandal, in which agents got caught, literally, with their pants down among foreign floozies.

    - The Environmental Protection Agency scandal, in which one of the agency’s regional bigs was found to have told his minions to “crucify,” like the conquering Romans, gas and oil companies at random to terrify them into submission.

    - The Justice Department scandal known as “Fast and Furious,” in which drug traffickers south of the border received lethal firepower in what many believe was a bid to discredit the right to bear arms in this country.

    - The National Labor Relations Board’s telling a major manufacturer, Boeing, that it couldn’t open a new plant in a “right-to-work” state.

    - The ongoing scandal of the Energy Department’s backing a whole string of losers with taxpayer funds ““alternative energy.”

    - The ObamaCare overstretch in which the president snapped his fingers at the backlash over his contraception mandate (itself a major and gratuitous blow against separation of church and state) and said, in effect, “the insurance companies will pay for it,” without citing constitutional authority.

    - The EPA’s seeking to bankrupt the coal industry apparently on “global warming” authority.

    - The Department of Education’s Office of Civil Rights ordering colleges to use the relatively lax “preponderance of evidence” standard against males accused of rape on campus or risk losing federal funds.

    These sorry SOBs and Hags are buffoonish thugs impoverishing and bullying our nation, and not much else. We need to run them out on a rail.

  • 574. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    How many thousands of crimes need to happen by your movement

    Damn you just don’t get it. The movement didn’t commit the crimes. Criminal hangers-on did.

    James in a comment above was absolutely right. I was wrong to judge the entire Tea Party movement by the racist and intimidating signage that was highlighted by a sensational press. As far as I know, no where in Tea Party platforms does it say “The Presidency of the USA should be limited to white people”.

    The “occupy” nature of the OWS movement encouraged losers to migrate to it. I have gone on record several times saying the OWS folks should have protested, gone the hell home, taken a f*cking bath, and come back the next day to fight again. Ad hoc communities lead to lawlessness. The OWS leaders didn’t have the good sense to know that.

    The TPM folks, mostly an older demographic, rejected the 1960′s commune approach (hell it probably never occurred to them) and it made them more successful.

  • 575. PFesser  |  June 20, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    “PF regarding Sandusky, I’m just sorry Paterno got the easy way out. If there is a God he is hopefully rotting in hell or just waiting for Jerry to join him. ”

    I am absolutely baffled by Paterno. It seems so out of character. Was it a case of thinking it was the lesser of two evils, vis a vis the complete explosion and damage to Penn State if it were revealed? Maybe he confronted Sandusky and was convinced there was nothing to it… Just unthinkably poor judgement.

  • 576. thorsaurus  |  June 20, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    Were you all screaming from the rooftops when “Wide Receiver” was revealed? I doubt it.

  • 577. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    James another interesting thing I learned this week in my class was the plight of the Irish immigrant. There was a time in the north when the Irish were actually worse off than blacks. Business sported signs that said “Colored only, Irish need not apply.” One of the interesting problems the Irish faced was that many of them did only seasonal work (potato farming for example) in their native land and weren’t used to working 12 months a year. When they arrived in America they were immediately labeled lazy. The Catholic church played a major role in helping the Irish eventually shed their disadvantaged status.

    I found myself thinking as I watched this week’s seminar this morning how good it would be for several of you guys to be in this course. It would honestly add some depth to the sweeping statements you make about human behavior.

  • 578. PFesser  |  June 20, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    Tex @ 573. Right and damned right and bloody well right.

  • 579. muffy  |  June 20, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    “Were you all screaming from the rooftops when “Wide Receiver” was revealed? I doubt it.”

    Let’s stick with this. What do you have to say about this?

  • 580. Tex Taylor  |  June 20, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    Even I have read enough to know pedophilia sits in a box of its own, not directly related to homosexuality.

    It must be the failed Obama factor and you feeling really blue your failed religion of progressive politic came apart at the seams like a Korean rocket.

    And the only thing left are shreds of Eric Holder’s boxer shorts in your teeth and Obama’s stiff cock in your ass, as fewer are offering the buttcrack to the FAILED PRESIDENT everyday. You can’t even read clearly anymore, misquoting, or misinterpreting more often than not.

    Nagic is right – you need to knock of the Evelyn Woodhead sped riddin coursework you flunked of picking one word and running with it – truly Poolman like in depth.

    I was talking about the scandals listed above dolt.

  • 581. Alfie  |  June 20, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    I never saw the Church as the power behind the Irish turnaround in America. I always saw it as the Irish building numbers to the point that they tipped the scales to their collective advantage,first through hooliganism then through cronyism. two of the historically unique ism’s of the USA.

  • 582. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    Rutherford you really need to pick up your Bible and read it. Seriously you are fucked up.

    I do not understand a person who has never seen the inside of a business office other than being called in to be fired to understand my answer so I will try again.

    First of all ass-wipe, I put in 24 years at one company and got “fired” making six figures. I’ll put my career against yours any day. Second, what are you saying about the Bible Noah? Are you suggesting I missed the part where it says it’s ok to f*ck little boys? I don’t think you get the point. You are either willfully stupid or just plain stupid.

    If you want to bring out the Tex in me, keep upping the rhetoric. I’ve watched Tex scorch Earth and I’ve learned from a master, motherf*cker.

  • 583. Tex Taylor  |  June 20, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    Wide Receiver? Is that the best you got, Bore?

    There’s a couple of facts you lying, duplicitous sacks of fascist shit from the Left conveniently forget to mention when comparing F & F with Wide Receiver.

    The Bush administration tried to trace the guns and informed the Mexican authorities when the guns went across the border, but the Obama administration did not.

    And all about the same time that the Obama administration was making its inaccurate claims about the United States being a major source of Mexican crime guns.

    Pricks.

  • 584. muffy  |  June 20, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    Leaving the low hanging fruit aside for once. I thought this remark worthy of reflection (re: Texas father)…

    “However, just to show you how disingenuous this entire argument has become, had it been a little boy, the reaction would have been entirely different…”

    They’ve already introduced a personality disorder (re: Sandusky raping little boys). I thought I heard wind of coming allegations of childhood sexual abuse (Sandusky’s own childhood).

  • 585. Tex Taylor  |  June 20, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    Oh gawd.

    I found myself thinking as I watched this week’s seminar this morning how good it would be for several of you guys to be in this course. It would honestly add some depth to the sweeping statements you make about human behavior.

    Rutherford, these progressive pack of lies you believed before you ever hit the floor of your bedroom were instigated by the same stupid, perverted “sociologists” that we’ve all grown to detest. When you eat out next time, chances good you’ll be served by a college graduate in sociology. :wink:

    The only thing this course will do for you when you’re done, is leave you even more fucked up, confused, and weak minded.

  • 586. Tex Taylor  |  June 20, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    Nobody died in Watergate. Brian Terry and who knows how many covert operatives have from F & F. If the Obama administration’s story was true, they would want to release the documents that support it. They are obviously lying out their ass.

    I have purposely stayed out of this F & F on this blog, letting justice take its course. Now that Obama has involved himself ruling by fiat, it’s time to ratchet up the pressure.

    We need to take this fascist mofo down…

  • 587. PFesser  |  June 20, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    Rutherford, I disagree with you about 94% of the time, but I have to hand it to you for patience. If it was me, I’d fire the whole lot of us, shut the blog down and go fishin’. You take a lot more shit than I would, I have to tell you…appreciate it. Nobody can accuse you of being thin skinned.

  • 588. muffy  |  June 20, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    “I am absolutely baffled by Paterno. It seems so out of character. Was it a case of thinking it was the lesser of two evils, vis a vis the complete explosion and damage to Penn State if it were revealed? Maybe he confronted Sandusky and was convinced there was nothing to it… Just unthinkably poor judgement.”

    Evidently covering up for sexual abuse was his character.

    We lie to preserve ourselves. We lie for other reasons, but in the cases of covering up for sexual abuse I think it’s just that simple.

    If he were alive to take the stand today I expect that he would say he believed Sandusky to be innocent of the charges back then. He might even say he didn’t believe them today.

    Self-preservation. Self self self.

  • 589. El Tigre  |  June 20, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    “The only thing this course will do for you when you’re done, is leave you even more fucked up, confused, and weak minded.
    :lol: :lol:

    And like a sophomore taking “introduction to psychology”, we’re all gonna here about how his theories of politics and conservatives is backed-up by this course. :roll:

  • 590. El Tigre  |  June 20, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    R, I am reminded of one of my most liberal colleagues, his wife on the same footing and a psychologist no less. They took pleasure in passing along an article from some widely circulated publication that claimed to have determined the psychological shortcomings of conservatives and why liberals were superior intellectually. The gist? Conservatives were small minded and isolated what they liked to read or hear to the exclusion of the rest.

    The article smugly handed to me was highlighted and underlined by my colleague and his wife. When my laughter died, there was silence. . . followed by “asshole.” :lol:

  • 591. PFesser  |  June 20, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    “The article smugly handed to me was highlighted and underlined by my colleague and his wife. When my laughter died, there was silence. . . followed by “asshole.” ”

    I have found no weapon so powerful as humor. There is just no defense against it.

    The censors were hard at work in my little town about thirty years ago, led by a local Baptist preacher. I published a satire in the local newspaper, basically an allegory paralleling “High Noon,” where the local “sex sheriff” was out to set everybody’s morals straight for them. I had just been elected to the school board and the censorship people were furious. I had not argued with them, name-called or even called them out by name; I had done something much worse: I had laughed at them.

    Until that time, nobody would oppose these people. Even though a lot of people were looking at porn – including a LOT of married couples, they were afraid to come out “in favor of pornography.” The newspaper was completely silent. Afterward, the paper was full of letters to the editor encouraging the censors to mind their own business.

    The denouement came when one of the church deacons was caught stealing porn from a local convenience store – on camera. The store owner, who had been the only merchant to not knuckle under, had a six-foot poster printed up of the act, called him and his pastor in for a “conference of compromise” and told them that, if they would mind their own business, he wouldn’t post it in his front window.

    Case closed.

    I had a lot more cojones then. Jesus, how I have avoided being shot just f’in eludes me…

  • 592. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 3:05 pm

    Regarding the sociology class and Tex’s and Tigre’s comments. Did you guys bother to read the paragraph that preceded my musings about your taking the course? That had nothing to do with liberal or conservative or trying to figure out “the conservative mind”. I was paraphrasing a discussion about differences among the classes and the races, I thought the observation about Irish immigrants quite interesting. Sometimes prejudices develop from misinterpretation of a minority’s culture.

    I’m not claiming a liberal arts degree is the road to riches so the comment about sociology majors waiting tables is off the mark. I know we’ve all gotten old and cynical but can’t you guys agree some things are worth thinking deeply about?

  • 593. Tex Taylor  |  June 20, 2012 at 3:09 pm

    Rutherford’s got an infinite number of major faults. :smile:

    Being thin skinned isn’t one of them. So therefore, in my book, Rutherford is a hundred times the man that President Lying Ass is. I’d vote for Rutherford for President before I’d vote for Obama – I ain’t kidding.

    I second your comment, Pfesser.

    I’ve given Mr. R a load of shit for four years, most of it deserved, some of it way over the top, and still he tolerates my lazy ass.

    “R”, you are a diamond. An uncut one, unpolished, clouded and bland. :twisted: But still a diamond.

  • 594. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 3:11 pm

    Would it be understandable to riot over the assertion of executive privilege over the Fast & Furious cover up?

    Ask Tex, Muffy. He sounds like he’s ready to start one. ;-)

  • 595. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 3:14 pm

    I’m going to go beat the shit out of handicapped for taking all the good parking spaces in my hood. Holder caused it. :lol:

    Well you’ll have to get in line behind me cos I want to beat the sh*t out of all the non-disabled people who use those spots. :-)

  • 596. Tex Taylor  |  June 20, 2012 at 3:14 pm

    Rutherford, you do humor me. I’ve laughed about you soaking up that sociology crap since you announced to the room you were taking the course. I’d take it with you if they had an “open forum” for discussion just to be a turd and flunk it.

    Like Tigre, I thought, “Oh no…we’ll never hear the end of it now.”

  • 597. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 3:15 pm

    I can’t speak for the rest of you but a twatwaffle sounds damn yummy to me.

  • 598. muffy  |  June 20, 2012 at 3:16 pm

    I’m asking you, Rutherford. Tex is not out there rioting. ;)

  • 599. El Tigre  |  June 20, 2012 at 3:21 pm

    R, it was a only a prediction my thin-skinned blog host. :wink:

    Well. . . and this:

    Rutherford | June 11, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    “BTW, I’ve started today taking a free sociology class offered by Princeton University. Only an hour into it and I’ve already read a paragraph that summarizes for me the conservative mental defect.”

  • 600. muffy  |  June 20, 2012 at 3:22 pm

    :lol: Rutherford you kill me (#597). Perspective is everything, isn’t it.

    The only thing I have against your class is that you neglect your blog and it gets overrun by these wingnuts.

  • 601. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 3:24 pm

    Before we go all bat-sh*t crazy may I remind you that, according to wiki, George W. Bush claimed executive privilege six times during his administration. It’s a perfectly legal action for the executive branch to take.

    With that said, it always smells fishy when it happens and it smells fishy now. Sometimes when I write a blog post I start with the title. I’ve got a title buzzing around in my head right now, so maybe I’ll do some research and write a post to fit the title. ;-)

  • 602. El Tigre  |  June 20, 2012 at 3:25 pm

    “Well you’ll have to get in line behind me cos I want to beat the sh*t out of all the non-disabled people who use those spots.”

    Let’s get those fuckin’ Koreans! At least we can agree that the non-disabled ones are to blame.

  • 603. El Tigre  |  June 20, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    “It’s a perfectly legal action for the executive branch to take.”

    Only if there really is a privilege over the materials and information for which it is invoked, and it is used for legitimate reasons.

    The immigration executive order decree was not legal.

  • 604. PFesser  |  June 20, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    Here you go, Rutherford. Here’s some more ammo to beat Tex over the head with:

    Being born again causes brain damage.

    http://www.philly.com/philly/health/132456883.html?c=r

    I like it when you and he fight. LOL. (not that much, really, but it keeps it exciting…). Sunday is my last day and I won’t be dependent on this blog to keep me from shooting my brains out….heh, heh…

  • 605. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 3:33 pm

    Are you so sure that Richard is still laughing now?

    Not at all sure Muffy, not at all sure. God might indeed be having the last laugh. Which reminds me of a lyric from, I think, Depeche Mode:

    I don’t want to start any blasphemous rumors
    But I think that God has a sick sense of humor
    And when I die, I expect to find Him laughing.

    P.S. While you may find the joke insulting, can you deny the truth of it? Do you really think evangelicals could get away with calling Mormonism a “cult” if there were a lot more of them? Strength in numbers applies to religion as well as any other institution.

  • 606. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 3:36 pm

    When Henry Fonda’s character saw Harvey

    Minor nitpick … I think it was Jimmy Stewart, not Fonda. I haven’t seen Harvey in its entirety. Are you suggesting Harvey was a metaphor for faith?

  • 607. muffy  |  June 20, 2012 at 3:38 pm

    I don’t find the joke insulting. I find it unoriginal, out of place, a cheap shot, and lame attempt to rile Tex up so that he obliges you and then you and PF can judge him in a couple of minutes. wink. wink.

    I didn’t say God would have the last laugh. I asked if you were sure that fucked up comedian was still laughing.

  • 608. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 3:39 pm

    Severe clinical depression, psychotic paranoia, shot himself in the face.

    Was that Jeni? Maybe a tortured genius?

  • 609. dead rabbit  |  June 20, 2012 at 3:42 pm

    How in the hell can Obama hide the documents? I thought Executive Privilege could only be used when highly sensitive info involving the President was in play? What right does he have covering shit up for his boyfriend Holder? Following this logic, Executive Privilage could be dropped on us FOR ANYTHING. Rutherford, dude……stay very far from MSNBC on this one. You barely have any core values that you haven’t already pissed on in front of the whole world. This sucks.

  • 610. muffy  |  June 20, 2012 at 3:42 pm

    …which you admitted that you weren’t. (Sure, that is).

    I really wish that you would just come out and call Christ a liar. You’re such a mealy mouthed agnostic. Come on baby, Devil’s waiting. ;)

  • 611. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 3:44 pm

    Alfie apologies for repeating your Harvey correction. Didn’t see it.

    It’s funny what you say about oversimplification. That is one of my gripes about the sociology course in that while it tries to get the student to think deeply about certain issues, it also provides what might seem like pat answers. Generalizations abound, all supposedly backed up by research performed within highly structured sociological protocols.

  • 612. muffy  |  June 20, 2012 at 3:47 pm

    “Maybe a tortured genius?”

    Yeah, that’s probably it.

  • 613. muffy  |  June 20, 2012 at 3:53 pm

    You might want to read your own “ammo,” PF.

    “According to the study, people who said they were a “born-again” Protestant or Catholic, or conversely, those who had no religious affiliation, had more hippocampal shrinkage (or “atrophy”) compared to people who identified themselves as Protestants, but not born-again.”

    Did you know that?

  • 614. dead rabbit  |  June 20, 2012 at 3:53 pm

    Holy crap. Rutherford learned that the Irish were treated like total shit back in the day. This sociology class is awesome for my ranking here. I’m now the 3 rd dumbest motherfucker here.

    By the way, I took that class. So nurture my balls, I’m sure it’s in your nature.

  • 615. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 3:55 pm

    Tex picks Jesus
    Rutherford picks Jeni

    I really, really like my chances.

    That was damn near poetic, seriously. Only flaw is I don’t “pick” anyone. And I believe everyone capable of speaking with clarity at least once in a blue moon, even if clinically depressed.

    If I believed with all my heart, in all sincerity, that an ostrich will one day land on the Earth and lay an egg which once cracked open, will release a gas that will cure every disease known to man and everyone alive at that moment will never die, would you not call me a raving lunatic? But what if I somehow got 10 million people to believe me and built temples to the ostrich, what would you say then? Poor Jeni may have been nutty as a holiday fruitcake but there is truth in his joke.

    One way YOU can find truth in the joke Tex is to reverse engineer it, assuming that you are right about your religious conclusions. You can be right about your God and the joke would still be true.

  • 616. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 3:59 pm

    Thor, your Cat in the Hat analogy makes me ashamed that I cursed Noah out. Your approach was classic, and went down like a spoonful of sugar. :-)

  • 617. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 4:11 pm

    Tex getting your diploma from the Noah school of head-thickery is most unbecoming. I know you’re over educated but that is one degree you don’t need.

    Am I to believe your conclusion “they’re all queers” had no implications at all? You were JUST speaking about the scandals in your comment and not extrapolating? If that’s the case, why did Pfesser feel compelled to set you straight (pardon the pun)?

    Looks like PF and I both need that speed reading class. Can you get a group rate? :neutral:

  • 618. muffy  |  June 20, 2012 at 4:16 pm

    Rutherford must be tuckered out from his class. He’s not even trying.

  • 619. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 4:16 pm

    They’ve already introduced a personality disorder (re: Sandusky raping little boys).

    Muffy and others, do you REALLY believe anyone behaves this way out of sheer evil? How can you not believe some pathology is involved? I’m not saying Sandusky doesn’t deserve to go the nastiest jail they can find, but by the same token, you don’t see any compulsion behind this behavior? And I’m not playing favorites either. The pedo priests no doubt had pathological problems also.

    I think the taboo of pedophilia in this country interferes with it getting proper clinical research in hope of finding some sort of “cure” by way of behavior modification therapy.

  • 620. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 4:19 pm

    PF … thanks for the kind words …. but …

    we agree only 6% of the time? LOL I’d put it a bit higher than that.

  • 621. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 4:22 pm

    “R”, you are a diamond. An uncut one, unpolished, clouded and bland. :twisted: But still a diamond.

    I’ll make sure the wife recites that line at my funeral Tex. Truly classic. :-)

  • 622. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 4:24 pm

    Tex, the class does have an extensive forum area. How “open” it is remains to be seen. Different philosophies are clearly tolerated. If you could keep from calling the other students limp wristed fascists you might survive there. :-)

  • 623. dead rabbit  |  June 20, 2012 at 4:29 pm

    Holder is toast. We are talking about the cover up of a slain American. Dumb ass White House tried to cover it up and now has to cover up the cover up. Of course, as soon as Rutherford gets his talking points from MSNBC, he will be covering up the cover up of the cover up. Two months later, when its common knowledge he was played for a fool he will try to mince words and play semantics in order to salvage some sort of credibility. Oddly enough, he will be saved as the next set of talking points will emerge for a new controversy and it all starts over again.

    Don’t do it this time R! Be your own man! Break the cycle of being dead wrong on everything because of that stupid news channel.

  • 624. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 4:32 pm

    Dammit, Muffy wants me to take her question completely seriously. Ok, here I go.

    I know you don’t like my cause/effect argument but I maintain it understanding it has its limits. If I don’t like the word “indigo” and your saying the word “indigo” causes me to run up and down the street breaking store windows and stealing pampers, I’d agree with you that cause/effect argument doesn’t amount to much there.

    I allowed myself to get carried away by including the game riot in my argument. That too is totally off the mark.

    BUT when an event stokes deep seated resentment and wounds among a class of people who perceive themselves powerless, the cause/effect case can be made. There is no comparison to the Rodney King riot and a Red Sox riot.

    These folks who rioted in the aftermath of Rodney King were the same type of folks who had fire hoses aimed at them by white cops a generation earlier.

    The wounds are deep Muffy. To say these folks are just looking for an “excuse” to riot greatly oversimplifies the issue.

  • 625. muffy  |  June 20, 2012 at 4:33 pm

    “Muffy and others, do you REALLY believe anyone behaves this way out of sheer evil?”

    What the blue blazes are you talking about?
    :lol:

    You couldn’t be further off the mark with regard to what I think.

  • 626. dead rabbit  |  June 20, 2012 at 4:38 pm

    As long as the behavior modification involves a chain saw, I’m on board. I’m serious when I say this, I want rip the intestines out of every person in that football program who knew and did nothing. If it was up to me, there would be a pile of intestines on the 50 yard line buzzing with flies.

  • 627. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 4:43 pm

    Only an hour into it and I’ve already read a paragraph that summarizes for me the conservative mental defect.

    Now Tigre you know I said that partly just to get everybody’s goat. But let me elaborate since you brought it up. In our first reading assignment we learned about the notion of “troubles” vs “issues”. Troubles are the things that effect us personally and over which we have primary responsibility for resolution. Issues are things that transcend the individual and involve societal factors. (See The Sociological Imagination by C. Wright Mills for more detail). So unemployment was used as an example. When only one man is unemployed, it’s his trouble. But when tens of thousands are unemployed it is an issue. This distinction reminded me of Herman Cain who said if you don’t have a job it’s your own damn fault. So I came to the conclusion that the conservative mental defect is the inability to discern troubles from issues.

    The conservative believes most things are troubles that don’t need government intervention even when it is plain that the problem is systemic.

  • 628. El Tigre  |  June 20, 2012 at 4:51 pm

    R, you must be retarded. Go claim your F. Try your hand at something else. Preferable something that requires no logic whatsoever. I understand Thor is teaching several of these courses.

  • 629. El Tigre  |  June 20, 2012 at 4:52 pm

    (so the liberal might consider all troubles issues????)

  • 630. dead rabbit  |  June 20, 2012 at 4:53 pm

    We think government is the cause of many issues.

  • 631. James  |  June 20, 2012 at 4:53 pm

    It was Jimmy Stewart. You are right. Yes, I think “Harvey” is a metaphor for faith.

    I agree about the deep wounds associated with the Rodney King riots vs sporting events etc..but we have free choice. We can be stronger than our baser instincts and refrain from violence against innocents. Such excuses are meritless.

    Those people were weak and did an evil thing. Now, if a riot was designed to accomplish a discernable goal with long lasting effects, such as taking down a governmental policy, have at it.

    Behavior modification with a chain saw is a good idea, but why start with intestines? Why not begin with a toe at a a time and work your way up.

  • 632. PFesser  |  June 20, 2012 at 5:08 pm

    Re: pedophilia as a disease

    I think that delves into something worth discussing. People who, for example, are serial killers are so far out of the mainstream that they are almost by definition loony. Do you treat them or kill them?

    What about people who are serial felons. Many states have laws locking them up for the rest of their lives. Obviously this kind of behavior is very aberrant. Jail ‘em or hospitalize them?

    I’m not setting a trap there. It is something I have thought about a lot.

  • 633. Tex Taylor  |  June 20, 2012 at 5:12 pm

    I don’t think Pfesser was correcting me on my comment, R. He was trying to goad me into being a little more ‘open minded’ in the generality of my ‘homophobia’ – at least that’s the way I took it. But I never said all fags were monsters. :twisted: I don’t care if they have their orgies in the bathhouses as long as the disease stays in the bathhouse. Unfortunately, some of those fags venture out a little further and infect the rest of us. Of course, that’s no worse than horny shepherds that boned the sheep and gave us syphilis, but we’re not celebrating that as normal and loving either, are we?

    Rodney King was a queer. John Wayne Gacy was a queer. Jerry Sandusky is a queer. Wayne Williams might have been a queer. Jeffrey Dahmer was a queer. Chaz Maddow is a queer. I wish Keith Olbermann had been a queer. I wish Bill Maher would be impaled with the meat of 1,000 queers hung like Secretariat.

    I’m just pointing out that all these monsters that have been in the limelight preying on innocent children that were listed above?

    They were homosexuals and nobody ever says a word about that.

    I’m just trying to think like a sociologist. :wink:

  • 634. muffy  |  June 20, 2012 at 5:14 pm

    Rutherford,

    To paraphrase -

    1) Tex said “”…had it been a little boy, the reaction would have been entirely different…”

    2) I replied that I thought this remark worthy of reflection.

    3) I commented that Sandusky’s defense included expert testimony that he has a personality disorder.

    Man rapes little girls – dead man.
    Man rapes little boys – “why?”

    Get it?

    I’m not even saying that’s the way it is. I’m reflecting on it. I said nothing about evil or pathology.

  • 635. Tex Taylor  |  June 20, 2012 at 5:17 pm

    You raise an interesting question, Pfesser. One I’ve contemplated for a long time.

    Is prison intended to rehabilitate? Or is it intended to punish?

    To me, it’s a fair question that has never been fairly answered.

  • 636. Tex Taylor  |  June 20, 2012 at 5:29 pm

    I think this whole thing of sexual predator has been so overly generalized, that ‘predator’ has become almost meaningless. Some of these people branded with the scarlet letter for the rest of their lives are being treated worse than murderers.

    Case in point:

    I’ve got this childhood buddy. When he was 19, he jiggled some gal that was 16 (I think). Might have been 15. He swears it was consensual and I believe him. They busted his ass for 10 years over it when her old man got wind.

    This was over 30 years ago. If memory serves, he served 6-7 years in a pretty hardcore correctional center down in the southern part of the state. For all practical purposes, his life was over. I mean everybody abandoned the guy. He couldn’t even get a livable wage and lived with his mother for a long time until she died. I’ve lost track of him since. Nobody at my last reunion had heard from him. He may be dead.

    He was telling me about 15 years ago that on his driver’s license picture, for the remainder of his days there is a sticker identifying him as sexual predator. When he moves to an apartment, he applies as sexual predator. Same with applying for a job. He told me not a day goes by he doesn’t think about taking his life and being done with it.

    Now if you ask me, Mitch is not Jerry Sandusky. He paid his dues for his crime (which wasn’t much of a crime if you ask me).

    I find this part of our penal system so outrageously unfair, it sickens me.

  • 637. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 5:41 pm

    The immigration executive order decree was not legal.

    Au contraire. The “amnesty” thing was not an executive order at all. It was a policy statement by the Department of Homeland Security.

  • 638. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 5:44 pm

    I didn’t say God would have the last laugh. I asked if you were sure that fucked up comedian was still laughing.

    Pure reason tells me no one laughs postmortem but then I could be wrong. We’ve had several people here testify that folks fart postmortem so I guess anything is possible. ;-)

  • 639. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 5:51 pm

    I thought Executive Privilege could only be used when highly sensitive info involving the President was in play?

    Let’s be precise in our language. It doesn’t necessarily have to involve the President directly. It has to involve the executive branch and “should” be reserved for when national security is at stake. I would estimate it is misused 95% of the time. I’ve also read that when executive privilege is invoked, some subset of subpoenaed documents usually ends up being released anyway.

  • 640. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 5:53 pm

    BTW, Rabbit is warning me off MSNBC when the conservative media has you guys crapping your pants about this.

    I don’t know squat about F&F but now that Obama appears to be “hiding” stuff, I’m gonna have to dig deeper.

  • 641. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 5:59 pm

    I really wish that you would just come out and call Christ a liar. You’re such a mealy mouthed agnostic. Come on baby, Devil’s waiting. ;)

    Sometimes you read like a transgender Tex. Were the two of you separated at birth?

    There is one excellent reason I can’t call Christ a liar. From what I understand everything we know about what Christ said is second hand. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and a bunch of other folks wrote stuff down. As far as I know Christ did not. And from what I’ve read from Christopher Hitchens (a book I HIGHLY recommend to you and Tex) even these gospels were actually put to paper long after the primary players had died. For all I know, Jesus might read the current Bible and say “are you guys crazy? I never said any of that. And what’s this making a God out of me? I never asked for that either.”

  • 642. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 6:02 pm

    PF I love you man in an atheistic sort of way but Muffy nailed you on your “ammo”. I noticed that when I read the article also.

    Muffy something I think you missed: it was not the shrinking hypothalmus that caused the born-again condition …. it was the reverse. The stress of holding a minority view was theorized to shrink the brain tissue, not the other way around.

    So unfortunately, PF needs to remove that item from evidence.

  • 643. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 6:04 pm

    PF did I understand you to say you’re retiring on Sunday? Oh please keep the details coming so I can enjoy retirement vicariously. It’s as close as I’ll ever get.

  • 644. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 6:06 pm

    Rabbit, I’ve been nurturing your balls for the better part of four years and what thanks do I get for it? Nothing. :neutral:

  • 645. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 6:09 pm

    You couldn’t be further off the mark with regard to what I think.

    Muffy when you mentioned the possible defense of Sandusky on mental defect grounds I sensed disbelief and sarcasm. My bad if I got that one wrong.

  • 646. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 6:10 pm

    Hey Rabbit … serious question … do you think the football program should have been shut down for a year to get things sorted out (and for punitive reasons also)? I do.

  • 647. Tex Taylor  |  June 20, 2012 at 6:12 pm

    even these gospels were actually put to paper long after the primary players had died.

    Leave it to Rutherford to quote Christopher Hitchen as “gospel” about the Gospels. :shock: I guess with Che being dead and all, Chris was your next best source? Damn Rutherford, I literally do weigh in the scales between laughing at you and laughing with you during my responses.

    Try about 15-40 years after, max. Easily provable too. All of them. So I guess the only way you can mitigate the evidence is to agree that today, it would be impossible to accurately portray Watergate?

    One question. Why would you quote a devout atheist and never bother to research what a historical theologian of antiquity might have to say? Hitchens should have too. Neither one of you are seeking truth – even about the argument.

    This confirmation bias of yours in pretty limiting really, Brother “R”.

  • 648. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 6:14 pm

    so the liberal might consider all troubles issues????)

    Ahhhh NOW you’re talking. Makes much more sense than calling me a retard. Yes I believe you could read Mills’ description of sociological thought, and come up with that conclusion based on your own biases. I applied my bias to my interpretation. Mind you, Mills did not say anything political. I extrapolated.

  • 649. muffy  |  June 20, 2012 at 6:15 pm

    “Were the two of you separated at birth?”.

    I was afraid you were going to say Noah. :lol: (for real).

    Sometimes you read like a six grader who just realized that the lions would eat the gazelles on the ark, oh! oh! therefore Mrs. Crabtree there can be no ark.

  • 650. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 6:20 pm

    Tex serious question … is there any rumor or documentation that Sandusky had a relationship with an adult male? If not, he ain’t queer. Dude was married and had kids I think. Now I know some gays get married and are in denial but I think Sandusky was a predator, not queer.

  • 651. dead rabbit  |  June 20, 2012 at 6:21 pm

    Not only should have the season ended, they should knock down the stadium and not resume play until a new one built. This was a football program that claimed the high road when it was actually evil. As for the players getting screwed, worse things can happen to an innocent person. Like being a boy and getting butt slammed by your mentor only to have a former football player and big ten assistant coach walk the other way so the rape can continue.

  • 652. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 6:22 pm

    Regarding 634, Muffy I get it.

  • 653. dead rabbit  |  June 20, 2012 at 6:27 pm

    Rutherford, I couldn’t stomach the details and stopped following the case a long time ago. But if sucking cock ain’t gay, then that’s a new. one for me.

  • 654. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 6:27 pm

    Is prison intended to rehabilitate? Or is it intended to punish?

    I’m going to beat Poolman to the punch. It is intended to PROFIT. The prison industrial complex should be of increasing concern to us. Too many for profit prisons being built and really dangerous incentives being generated for “law enforcement”.

    But to answer your question, clearly a life sentence cannot be deemed rehabilitory in nature. Perhaps there is a fourth option in addition to punishment, rehabilitation and profit …. protection of society from the repeat offender.

  • 655. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 6:30 pm

    Tex I agree with you 100% about Mitch.

  • 656. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 6:35 pm

    Unlike me, an admitted religious ignoramus, Hitchens has studied a great number of religions in great detail. His book “God is Not Great” takes apart not just Christianity but Judaism and especially Islam which he basically calls a plagiarized religion. The only flaw I find in the book so far is he sometimes relies on emotion and not reason in his arguments but it is a satisfying read.

    If only the man hadn’t died, I would love to see him in a debate with you Tex. You would hold your own, I don’t doubt it, but it would be quite the spectacle.

  • 657. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 6:38 pm

    Sometimes you read like a six grader who just realized that the lions would eat the gazelles on the ark, oh! oh! therefore Mrs. Crabtree there can be no ark.

    IMHO that is one smart sixth grader! :-) Mrs. Crabtree has her work cut out for her.

    P.S. I hold you in much too great esteem to ever compare you to Noah.

  • 658. Rutherford  |  June 20, 2012 at 6:45 pm

    Rabbit I see your point about the “sucking”. I know I exasperate many here with my insistence on defining what we say but I know no other way to conduct debate. I don’t define gay strictly by “the act”. I think Mick Jagger has probably had sex with just about anything breathing but I don’t think he’s “gay”. (Supposedly he and Bowie were caught doing the nasty by someone … maybe Bowie’s ex wife … I don’t recall).

    Now, a card carrying member of NAMBLA, yeah I’d call him gay because it is part of NAMBLA’s “manifesto” that it is good for boys to be f*cked by a sexual “mentor”. I find it has a distinctly gay tone.

  • 659. muffy  |  June 20, 2012 at 7:00 pm

    “I don’t define gay strictly by “the act” “

    What is it then? If Mick was turned on? If Mick was in love with Bowie would that make a difference? If that’s the case, who knows that he wasn’t (in love)?

    One time I said that Chaz Bono wasn’t a man, she was a lesbian. PF said they (transgender and homosexuality) were two entirely different things.

    I was thinking when we had the “when is a fetus a person” discussion – how does sex factor in to it? Are you a male fetus? Then you’re born and you are a male person?

    (I’m asking what you think, not asking because I don’t know what I think).

  • 660. El Tigre  |  June 20, 2012 at 8:32 pm

    “Au contraire. The “amnesty” thing was not an executive order at all. It was a policy statement by the Department of Homeland Security.”

    Huh? That makes no sense. Sounds like MSNBC blather.

    Please explain, including why an executive order under the doctrine of prosecutorial discretion was issued.

  • 661. El Tigre  |  June 20, 2012 at 8:36 pm

    R, I extrapolate that the fact that you lacked the intellectual curiosity to invert your “issues” extrapolation is. . . you got it. . . retarded.

    I swear, have you ever made logic’s acquaintance? :lol:

  • 662. El Tigre  |  June 20, 2012 at 8:57 pm

    Ah yes. I remember the delayed spread of the riots in Atlanta after the King riots. Obviously they wanted to be sure their mistrust and abuse at the hands of the LA police were well-founded before they looted Footlockers around the metro area. :roll:

  • 663. dead rabbit  |  June 20, 2012 at 8:57 pm

    Lol…well Rutherford…since you seem to have a problem drawing a line in the sand on what is gay, perhaps you need to experiment a little. Maybe Pfessor could invite you to one of his parties. Bob for some apples and pin the tail on the donkey.

  • 664. nagic  |  June 20, 2012 at 9:15 pm

    If you want to bring out the Tex in me, keep upping the rhetoric. I’ve watched Tex scorch Earth and I’ve learned from a master, motherf*cker.

    Kind of still waiting for you to make good on your threat Rutherford. Bring it and show everyone else you are more than the fraud I have claimed you are. Show everyone you are not the chump who hung an entire argument on one word. I Know you are too much of a bitch to even make a half ass attempt, so prove me wrong.

    As for as your search for a verse in the Bible to make messing with a child ok….might I suggest you seek counseling, ask someone else, and maybe keep those kind of things private. Sorry man cant/wont help you with that one.

    As far as the question on prisons being there to rehabilitate. One of my closest friends in the world has worked in the prison system for 18 years. IF, the prison had any mission statement that it was there to rehabilitate inmates, it is a total and complete failure. The only thing the prison does well is to institutionalize people into a life of being in the system. Even after someone is let out of prison, they have so much money to pay back and so many hoops to jump through that they often find themselves back in jail/prison for not being able to meet the requirements set to them by the system upon their release. All most all of which is due to an inability to pay restitution and or fines.

  • 665. El Tigre  |  June 20, 2012 at 9:40 pm

    I have represented 3 men that served serious time — all unrelated to the purpose of mu engagement. One for drug running (4 years; fed), one for bank robbery (20 served; fed); one for manslaughter (7 served state). All of them were broken.

    I am convinced hard time leaves the exterior but takes the spirit. A strange existence.

    DR? Ever see them after they got out?

  • 666. an800lbgorilla  |  June 20, 2012 at 10:17 pm

    Now, a card carrying member of NAMBLA, yeah I’d call him gay because it is part of NAMBLA’s “manifesto” that it is good for boys to be f*cked by a sexual “mentor”. I find it has a distinctly gay tone.” – R

    Fucking little boys is distinct feature of gays? I’m not into- as DR so aptly put it, pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey (so appropriate for our liberal democrat friend)- but I think they would take umbrage at that comment…

  • 667. Tex Taylor  |  June 20, 2012 at 10:20 pm

    Bob for some apples and pin the tail on the donkey.

    :lol: Yeah Rutherford. You could bob that roommate of yours tail and come back and tell us if you think the elephant walk with your brothers constitutes sex.

    Then you tell me if you found it the same as bobbing with the wife while you’re at it. :grin:

  • 668. Tex Taylor  |  June 20, 2012 at 10:33 pm

    Just watched a two hour debate (obviously taped) between William Lane Craig, a Christian Apologist and philosopher, and Chris Hitchens. Hitchens didn’t do well in this one and he rambled some, but I give the man credit for going into a Christian school and debating. For Hitchens, he was actually pretty mannerly.

    It’s so hard to debate the issue of theism vs. atheism in that kind of forum, it makes it difficult for all parties involved. I’ve seen Lane when he was much better too. Hugh Hewitt played moderator and was pretty balanced I thought.

    Pfesser might have enjoyed this one. It kind of reminded him of our argumentative debate about God – without the pejorative. :grin:

    Hitchens was in some ways a brilliant man, R. I enjoy listening him to him debate. But he was also a fool who drank too much and had such a surly disposition, it was obvious he found himself unhappy and without any meaning. What he said in this dialogue about what was his purpose was beneath his brilliance and pretty much gibberish. Hitchens looked really tired at the end and I suspect he was a dead man and didn’t know it. I suppose we all are. :sad:

    Ironic that the subject Hitchens used to excoriate Mother Theresa in this debate, ended up killing him three years later.

  • 669. an800lbgorilla  |  June 20, 2012 at 10:50 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/embed/Aqxl9qiFonc

  • 670. an800lbgorilla  |  June 20, 2012 at 11:04 pm

  • 671. dead rabbit  |  June 20, 2012 at 11:05 pm

    Tigre, I worked in juvenile facilities. Not even close to hard time. Litle League. Some of them were murderers and rapists. But they hadn’t learned to be real convicts yet. Their gangs still revovled around the outside not the inside.

    The only time I saw them on the outside was once on the evening news. First weekend out and already killing motherfickers. I worked out of state, in Pfessor’s Commonwealth. A beautiful state to be sure, but a savage one. Virginia has some scary ass enclaves. As soon as I quit, we moved back to Michigan. I would have been horrified to run across some of them, particularly the hispanic gangsters .

  • 672. dead rabbit  |  June 20, 2012 at 11:14 pm

    One way to have how aboriginaly savage a neighborhood is to find out if the local gang activity is made up of sets from national gangs or independent. For instance huge swaths of Detroit remain independent. Richmond, Norfolk and even Neport News were like that. This litmus test only works in black hoods.

  • 673. dead rabbit  |  June 20, 2012 at 11:16 pm

    One way to gage .
    .. stupid f****** phone

  • 674. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 12:53 am

    Muffy, whoa … 659 was a lot to take in. Let me see if I can tackle it one at a time.

    I would consider Mick getting it on with a guy more of a flippant act of debauchery as opposed to a lifestyle choice involving an innate attraction to the same gender. I don’t think a true gay chooses his preference. Then again, if Jagger is attracted to men on a visceral level then perhaps he’s bi?

    I don’t think Chaz Bono is a lesbian. There are loads of women comfortable to have a sexual relationship with another woman without feeling the need for a gender change. The single factor identifying someone who is transgender is that they feel they are in “the wrong body”. It has nothing to do with whom they’re attracted to.

    As for the fetus, yeah I think once the body has developed to the point that sexual differentiation kicks in (I don’t know what week that happens in) then you’ve got a fetus of a particular gender. That’s why the doc says “you’re gonna have a boy” cos the ultrasound shows that little wiener.

    But to get back to the initial point, I just think being gay runs deeper than simply engaging in a homosexual act. I suspect Sandusky at least believes he loves his wife and that he does not consider himself gay.

  • 675. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 12:57 am

    Please explain, including why an executive order under the doctrine of prosecutorial discretion was issued.

    Maybe what I heard was a technicality. The difference as I understand it is that an executive order comes from the President. This prerogative of prosecutorial discretion came from the Department of Homeland Security. Obama supported it but he did not issue it.

  • 676. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 1:00 am

    I extrapolate that the fact that you lacked the intellectual curiosity to invert your “issues” extrapolation is

    Huh??? My following my biases has nothing to do with a lack of intellectual curiosity. Damn, as partisan as you are, you’re now telling me that your biases are evidence that you lack intellectual curiosity? I never thought so, but thanks for falling on your sword.

  • 677. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 1:13 am

    As for as your search for a verse in the Bible to make messing with a child ok….might I suggest you seek counseling, ask someone else, and maybe keep those kind of things private. Sorry man cant/wont help you with that one.

    You are truly thick as a brick. I’m torn between being as rude to you as I possibly can and quoting Dr. Seuss to you the way Thor did. He took the high road. I give him props for it.

    I AM a patient man so I’m gonna try one more time.

    You do not wish to distinguish between the doctrine of a movement and its bad players.

    OWS doctrine has nothing to do with robbery, drug dealing, murder or rape.

    Christian doctrine (as documented in THE BIBLE) has nothing to do with pedophilia.

    Both “institutions” have had bad actors associated with them. So do you throw out the institution because of the bad actors?

    You can end this argument very easily Noah. Just tell me that before the pedo scandal you were a Catholic and now you no longer are because the scandal invalidated the Catholic church in your eyes.

    I don’t know how to spell this out any more plainly. If you still don’t get it, I’ll ask Thor to start quoting Green Eggs and Ham. :neutral:

    P.S. Despite the support you got from Tigre, you lost the original argument about what OWS did and did not change. Next time you don’t want me to believe that X only changed Y, then don’t use the word “only”. For people who speak English, it changes the meaning of the sentence. Oh, the way you can stop this particular argument Noah is to say “Rutherford, you prick, I didn’t mean to say only.” You haven’t said that yet. Once you do, I’ll gladly offer an apology for drawing out the argument.

  • 678. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 1:19 am

    Fucking little boys is distinct feature of gays?

    That’s not what I meant. In fact I said the opposite. I cited NAMBLA because I think they consider themselves homosexual. I don’t think Sandusky thinks he’s gay. And I also don’t think being gay makes you more likely to be a predator.

  • 679. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 1:22 am

    Hey Tex, can you point me to that debate with Hitchens? Is it online? I give you props for watching it.

  • 680. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 1:25 am

    Gorilla I assume you posted the “arrogant Obama” video as humor because it was real dumb-ass. “He changed health care when everyone was happy with what they had.” Yeah the millions who don’t have any are real happy.

    G you are way smarter than that.

  • 681. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 1:50 am

    I shall end with a quick comment about the lying scumbags at Fox News who some of you worship. I’ve been hearing (I think Gorilla said this on my radio show the other day) that Obama said nine months ago that he could do nothing about illegal immigrants or the Dream Act on his own. Fox News played a clip of his saying it. Problem: the lying f*ckers didn’t play the entire tape. After he said he could do nothing on his own, he went on to say that some discretion and prioritization in enforcement could be done so we’re not chasing after responsible youth. So, what he said the executive branch could do is EXACTLY what they did.

    This is why every time I start to believe your cock and bull propaganda I have to put myself in check.

    Go to 3:29 in the following video:
    http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-june-19-2012/democalypse-2012—pander-express-edition—obama-s-immigration-reform

  • 682. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 1:55 am

    Also take note from the above video that four of Obama’s predecessors made exceptions to immigration law. That’s Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush.

  • 683. muffy  |  June 21, 2012 at 2:11 am

    Thanks Rutherford.

    Would I be twisting your words if I repeated back to you that Sandusky isn’t gay because he doesn’t consider himself gay?

    And Chaz Bono is a straight male?

    Are those chosen beliefs or indisputable facts?

  • 684. Alfie  |  June 21, 2012 at 7:13 am

    I’m not going to debate the value of Fox News but Rutherford I don’t believe it is either appropriate or even consistent policy that Obama has enacted re young illegals. What he has done is gone ahead with circumventing law and responsibility for pure political gain.

  • 685. Alfie  |  June 21, 2012 at 7:17 am

    @ Rutherford and anyone interested. I know the reports are unconfirmed but given the history of how Russia has used the Syrian naval base before…. Putin is allegedly flexing the “we will protect Russian citizens and property in Syria” card.
    The potential deployment of two amphibious assault ships laden with Russian marines to Tartus is an important development

  • 686. Tex Taylor  |  June 21, 2012 at 7:31 am

    Rutherford,

    Since you think FOX is so biased, I assume you also feel this Fast & Furious is much ado about nothing, the proverbial Tempest in a Teapot?

    If not, perhaps you can explain why FOX News is the only major news source covering F & F until today and why did it require Presidential privilege when Obama says he knew nothing about it until he ‘heard it on the news’?

    I know it pains you that you leftists and fascists like Bore that the days of Cronkite, Donaldson, Brokaw, Murrow, and Rather are over and you don’t completely control the flow of information anymore, but as I demonstrated earlier today, men like Bore are dishonest as hell in their information – Bush did it too. Well, no he didn’t. And as you scold Nagic, not a word from you.

    And in #573, I’ve listed just a portion of the fascist shit by fiat your men Holder and Bomba have pulled just within the last two years – not a word there either.

    FOX is not the dishonest player in the news. It’s the only source not in the tank for a failed President, though.

  • 687. an800lbgorilla  |  June 21, 2012 at 7:34 am

    R, you’re pretty delusional. You’re also trying to split hairs- selective enforcement was a DHS decision, not Obama’s. Then why the fuck didn’t Napalotano make the announcement? Why did Barack “I Desperately Need Your Taco Vote” Obama do it?

    Use your brain man…

  • 688. an800lbgorilla  |  June 21, 2012 at 7:38 am

  • 689. Tex Taylor  |  June 21, 2012 at 7:41 am

    Alfie,

    The potential deployment of two amphibious assault ships laden with Russian marines to Tartus is an important development

    But, but, but….

    Just a few weeks ago, Rutherford mocked me because I called Russia a threat. I need to go back and pull that quote where he laughs about me having concerns about Russia. And this was before Russia started moving troops and equipment to Syria, launching ballistic missile test, playing war games, etc…

    I don’t know who Rutherford and the rest of the dupes believe was passing RPG shells that penetrated depleted uranium protected tanks in Iraq, but Rutherford might have at least gathered it wasn’t a bunch of goat herding jihadists.

    Putin plays Obama because he’s shrewder and Obama is naive – frankly Obama is an intellectual lightweight; poorly read and extremely haughty makes for a deadly combination and that is Obama in spades. Add to the fact his entire cabinet is composed of yes men, sycophants, and idiots – including someone leaking intelligence to the NYT?

    These leftists keep assuring us we are in the best of hands. I remain really, really unimpressed.

  • 690. an800lbgorilla  |  June 21, 2012 at 7:44 am

  • 691. an800lbgorilla  |  June 21, 2012 at 7:54 am

    R, this is the way I see this executive privilege thing: Obama has now admitted that Fast and Furious was known to the White House and was part of dealings in which the President had DIRECT knowledge.

    EP applies to Military, National Security, Diplomatic relations and Presidential Communication. How can Barack “Millhouse” Obama claim EP if this was a program run by low level folks that he had no knowledge of? He was either lying then, or he is lying now, which do you prefer?

  • 692. PFesser  |  June 21, 2012 at 8:09 am

    Tex – re: Mitch. They tried that shit on my kindergartner when he and a little girl in his class were playing around and he smacked her on the bottom. (I tell you, the spanko gene runs true.) The school system decompensated, expelling him for 5 days and instituting a plethora of sanctions against my son.

    I lost my mind, and immediately entered the Fred Goldman mode. When the dust settled, NONE of the sanctions were implemented, including marking his school file, “sexual predator.” (Can you believe this shit?) The teacher who had caused him to be expelled spent her first week of summer vacation in an empty classroom with one student – my son – making up the lessons he had missed in his week off. Fucking assholes. Sometimes you mess with the wrong people.

    R – re: retirement. I won’t be retiring; I’ll be working on other projects, including some neurointerventional devices for my friend in LA. I’ll also not be moving; I’ll just sit here in my little town, like a giant turd in the punch bowl, watching my former colleagues drive 50 miles each way every day as my two-year noncompete clause ticks down, thinking about how to take away enough of the radiology department’s revenue to make it unprofitable – and since the hospital depends on that revenue stream, also making the hospital unprofitable. Sometimes you mess with the wrong people, as I said.

    muffy – “Sometimes you read like a six grader who just realized that the lions would eat the gazelles on the ark, oh! oh! therefore Mrs. Crabtree there can be no ark.”

    Well, there is also that pesky little thing about the total volume of animals being larger than forty arks, and then there’s the fodder for them all. But I know, the Lord provides for those kinds of difficulties…

    The whole thing is just silly, but people can believe what they want, so long as they keep it out of government. (I’m dying to tell you about the faeries that live at the bottom of my garden – my granddaughter and I SAW them!)

  • 693. PFesser  |  June 21, 2012 at 8:27 am

    re: sexual differentiation. Of course, when the sperm has the y chromosome, you’re a boy right after fertilization. If an x, a girl. The man determines the sex of the fetus.

    Structurally, according to my old Arey (embryo text) – which I just happen to have here in my office….noodle, noodle…. here we go: “during the 5th and 6th weeks the genital system makes its appearance.” It appears that at this stage there are undifferentiated cells that don’t really commit to either gender, but within a couple of more weeks they start to become male or female organs.

    re: Crime and Punishment. Old, old topic. It seems to me that, of course these people are deranged. They are also dangerous. What is the function of the law for these folks? I would think it is: remove them to where they can’t hurt citizens, deter criminals and those thinking about becoming criminals, retribution, preventing vigilante justice. Rehabilitation, if possible. Interestingly, I am told the Chinese have indeterminate sentences and intense “re-education” classes. You don’t get out until the warden is personally convinced you are a changed man. Their recidivism rate is something like 5%. They don’t fuck around; executions happen early and often. People say they are brutal; maybe so, but over here, instead of letting the state brutalize, we let the inmates brutalize each other, with NO net benefit to society, so I would submit that our sob-sisters with the leaky waterworks might be off-base a little. Thoughts?

  • 694. El Tigre  |  June 21, 2012 at 8:32 am

    G@687, thank you — that was my point for R. He of course didn’t bother thinking before writing.

    As here:

    “Damn, as partisan as you are, you’re now telling me that your biases are evidence that you lack intellectual curiosity?”

    I said nothing of the sort. Re-read what I said and think. We were talking about logic. Go borrow your neighbor’s but be sure to return it when you are done.

  • 695. Tex Taylor  |  June 21, 2012 at 9:05 am

    Pfesser,

    I always thought old Mitch’s story was about as tragic as any I was personally familiar.

    Look, I want sexual predators of the streets as much as anybody. I’ve got two gorgeous daughters of my own. Violent rape would be met with a needle in the arm if I were king. And pedophiles are really sick puppies.

    But Mitch was none of the above. He made a mistake with a consenting teen too young to be having consensual sex and basically lost his adult life over it. He was humiliated everyday, lumped in with the Jerry Sandusky types of the world. In some ways, his life seemed worse than death to me because he was an outcast and scorned.

    I’m sure Mitch did take advantage – he was pretty much a dumbass the entire time we grew up. But that’s not worth serving a life sentence. It got so bad, Mitch told me he fantasized about committing a violent crime just to get moved back to prison. Thought being publicly humiliated was worse than serving.

    That’s how frickin’ twisted this herd mentality has become about sexual predatory practices.

    And almost all of this insanity is driven by feminists – man hating shrews like you read at Fat Grannies. I believe many of these feminists are helping to create these monsters.

  • 696. James  |  June 21, 2012 at 9:10 am

    632, people are mentally sick because we say they are. Traits they display may be acceptable or even commendable in one context and dangerous in another.

    Serial killers, cannot be allowed to survive in modern society, but if they are military snipers or other combatants, their instincts are valuable when they control themselves and direct their murderous tendencies toward the enemy. The analogy is imperfect, but “King Rat” illustrates situational adaptation.

    What do you think of intersex people? They upset our concept of gender and identity because they are neither or both. What of people with brains wired improperly? Are these people diseased or do they have a condition?

    Rutherford, if you are angry at Fox, I assume you also feel disdain for networks like MSNBC who’s latest trick was to attempt to portray Romney as out of touch by editing out parts of a tape. They would have gotten away with it, but a blogger had a copy of the entire statement.

    Remember when NBC faked a safety check of a pickup by making it explode? Of course, we can’t forget Dan Rather. The only we can find a semblance of the truth is to read a wide variety of sources.

  • 697. Tex Taylor  |  June 21, 2012 at 9:17 am

  • 698. James  |  June 21, 2012 at 9:21 am

    Pfessor, I believe an ark in some form existed. A rich civilization evolved on the bottom of what is now the Black Sea. Global warming melted glaciers and increased the ocean’s volume so that its level in the Mediterrainian Sea rose over a range of mountains and flooded the low valley . Residents had some warning because the huge mass of water made a lot of noise and was visible for miles.

    People fled in all directions and carried the flood story with them. They might also have contributed to sending the mutation for blue eyes across the region. Oral traditions are durable and can be twisted to fit new situations such as religious stories. To the valley dwellers, it must have seemed as if the world was being flooded because they had no idea of when or where it would stop.

  • 699. an800lbgorilla  |  June 21, 2012 at 9:40 am

    Washington Post review of the Ad:

    The Obama campaign fails to make its case. On just about every level, this ad is misleading, unfair and untrue, from the use of “corporate raider” to its examples of alleged outsourcing. Simply repeating the same debunked claims won’t make them any more correct.

    Four Pinocchios.

    I seem to remember a certain conversation talking about swarmy ads that distorted the truth being the root cause for liberal issues failing to win electoral support. How swarmy is too swarmy?

  • 700. PFesser  |  June 21, 2012 at 9:42 am

    James – I think that is a reasonable explanation for the flood story. It is repeated I am told in multiple religious stories across multiple religions and geographical areas, so either the stories came all from the same source or there was really an epic flood.

    It takes a lot of water to bury mountaintops, so I don’t believe that part of course, but the rest sounds about right.

    I don’t know what the big deal is about global warming. It is supposed to raise the sea level 15 feet and the average elevation in Florida is 7, so that sounds like a good thing to me…LOL

  • 701. El Tigre  |  June 21, 2012 at 10:16 am

    James, the MSNBC recently got caught editing the Zimmerman 911 calls to make him sound racist too.

    Frankly, I don’t get how the back half of Obama’s comments mitigate the contradiction. Apparently it means something to Rutherford, bu *whateva.* Obama’s unconsitutional tough-guy electioneering is just more of the same. We shouldn;t expect anydifferent from the guy who was going to bring us all together with a colke and a smile. :roll:

  • 702. El Tigre  |  June 21, 2012 at 10:18 am

    R, don’t look at this. It ain’t what MSNBC said happened.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmermans-reenactment-trayvon-martin-shooting/story?id=16616864#.T-MTYLjDVoY

  • 703. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 10:52 am

    Would I be twisting your words if I repeated back to you that Sandusky isn’t gay because he doesn’t consider himself gay?

    And Chaz Bono is a straight male?

    Are those chosen beliefs or indisputable facts?

    No, I don’t suppose that’s much of a twist. “Facts” is a real dicey word in this area. One could argue that it is a fact that Chaz is a woman, no matter how much he feels he was born in the wrong body. My compromise answer would be that SOCIALLY Chaz is a straight male even though that flies in the face of his original biology.

    LOL Muffy I can see your head exploding right now. Reminds me of my mother who thought all this psychobabble was sheer foolishness. My late Mom, privately not the least bit PC, thought transgender people were about as f*cked up in the head as a person could be.

  • 704. nagic  |  June 21, 2012 at 10:53 am

    “You are truly thick as a brick. ”

    And you are purposefully being intellectually dishonest.

    “OWS doctrine has nothing to do with robbery, drug dealing, murder or rape.

    Christian doctrine (as documented in THE BIBLE) has nothing to do with pedophilia.

    Both “institutions” have had bad actors associated with them. So do you throw out the institution because of the bad actors?

    You can end this argument very easily Noah. Just tell me that before the pedo scandal you were a Catholic and now you no longer are because the scandal invalidated the Catholic church in your eyes. ”

    First off, your initial ASSumption is incorrect. I was never, have never been, a Catholic. I have been a Baptist all my life.

    Secondly, I feel the scandal of Priests abusing boys is indicative of an ancient culture within the Catholic church. I think it is more pervasive than we have been lead to believe and is a matter that needed and still needs to be dealt with.

    OWS had problems EVERYWHERE it went. All major events had arrests. OWS had a HUGE amount of felonies. You dont get to say that the good people are part of the movement, and the bad are not. If you are going to claim Oakland or any other event was a OWS event, you get all the good people, and all the bad people, or you get none of them.

    Despite what your wife tells you, size does matter. The number of priests involved vs the number of Catholics compared to the number of OWS vs criminals is a vastly higher percentage on the OWS side.

    “P.S. Despite the support you got from Tigre, you lost the original argument about what OWS did and did not change. ”

    Who says you won, and by what measure? You were the one who ignored the argument, and went for the word “Only” as if it was the focus of the argument. This was blatantly obvious to everyone else, and I suspect you as well. This turned out to be more about a character flaw with you.

    “Oh, the way you can stop this particular argument Noah is to say “Rutherford, you prick, I didn’t mean to say only.” You haven’t said that yet. Once you do, I’ll gladly offer an apology for drawing out the argument.”

    Per post 133 I said….
    “Did the word “only” make it “technically” false? Yes I suppose so. Is it 99% accurate. Yes, yes it is. Over stated but true.”

  • 705. PFesser  |  June 21, 2012 at 10:59 am

    R: “First off, your initial ASSumption is incorrect. I was never, have never been, a Catholic. I have been a Baptist all my life.”

    Noooooooo!!! Say it ain’t so!

    I just have two questions: Do you dance? Do you have sex standing up?

  • 706. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 11:13 am

    Why did Barack “I Desperately Need Your Taco Vote” Obama do it?

    Asked and answered.

  • 707. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 11:23 am

    Totally off topic: I’m listening to Bowie’s “ChangesBowie” this morning. The man has produced some damn good music.

  • 708. El Tigre  |  June 21, 2012 at 11:25 am

    “P.S. Despite the support you got from Tigre, you lost the original argument about what OWS did and did not change.”

    It wasn’t support for Noah R. It was an observation of how you frequently avoid the substance of arguments. Noah had you pegged. You do do that alot. It’s annoying trait. And, sorry man, his point WAS obvious to everyone. You really should’ve let it go and worked on the substance of what he said. When you’re the “only” one declaring victory for yourself, you might want to reassess whom you contend “lost.” (Thor’s sycophantic joinder doesn’t count btw). :lol:

  • 709. PFesser  |  June 21, 2012 at 11:25 am

    Love that album – my favorite Bowie. Smoked a lot of dope and got a lot of trim listening to “Young American.” Ahhhhh,,,,,the good old days.

  • 710. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 11:27 am

    PF I tend to agree with your take on crime and punishment. If you’re gonna go about rehab then take it seriously. Don’t toss folks in the slammer to languish while they get raped by their “peers”. Do some serious “re-education”.

  • 711. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 11:31 am

    And almost all of this insanity is driven by feminists – man hating shrews like you read at Fat Grannies.

    Tex I tend to agree with this but I want to point you in another direction. You don’t think the father of Mitch’s “victim” went batsh*t crazy? There’s nothing worse than a father who thinks his daughter is an angel and is ready to kill ANYONE who touches her for any reason.

  • 712. PFesser  |  June 21, 2012 at 11:34 am

    Yeah, R.

    You know I am the most libertarian Libertarian you ever met, but hell, if these folks are in the slammer, most of them have failed at meeting their obligations to their fellow travelers. (not all, but I would say most). I think you sort of own their asses at that point, and I don’t see any problem with telling them, look – while you are in here we are going to get your head bolted on straight, whether you like it or not. And then DO it.

    But this system of caged animals, acting like animals and you don’t care what happens to them, serves no one – least of all the inmate and the society you are going to eventually dump him back in.

    Just my take on it. Some folks with legal experience weigh in on this.

  • 713. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 11:40 am

    PF opening riff to Rebel Rebel … yesssssssss! Back in the days before my tracheotomy I used to love to sing Golden Years and Fame. I can’t do the falsetto notes from Golden Years anymore nor the distorted voice in the middle of Fame.

    Speaking of “Young American” that’s actually why I put on Bowie this morning. My cable music station played YA this morning and got me in a Bowie mood. I was walking around the apartment singing “Do you remember your President Nixon … ” :-)

    P.S. I don’t often remember where I was when I first heard a particular song but YA is an exception. I first heard it on an airplane. I don’t remember where I was going but I remember listening to their “rock” program repeatedly and I probably heard Young American three or four times before we landed.

  • 714. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 11:46 am

    I assume you also feel disdain for networks like MSNBC who’s latest trick was to attempt to portray Romney as out of touch by editing out parts of a tape. They would have gotten away with it, but a blogger had a copy of the entire statement.

    James I honestly don’t find them equivalent. One simply made Romney look the fool. Wrong but trivial. The other makes Obama look like a liar and relates to an important domestic policy. The notion that Romney might not know about touchscreen menus is silly at worst.

  • 715. nagic  |  June 21, 2012 at 11:56 am

    I just have two questions: Do you dance? Do you have sex standing up?

    Baptist, not Southern Baptist. It is the most laid back church you could ask for. We have little appreciation for the Catholic church as it is, in our opinion, more about ritual than it is the meaning behind them. We do soda crackers and welches grape juice for Communion. To us, it is the message that is important, not all the “human” hupla surrounding it. We are also avidly against conversion and missionary work.

  • 716. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 11:58 am

    I don’t get how the back half of Obama’s comments mitigate the contradiction.

    I sometimes think you have a secret plot to drive me insane … when I say “the sky is blue”, you say “frankly I don’t get that.”

    The back half of his comment indicated that his admin could selectively enforce the law …. which is what he did. Without the back half of the comment, it appeared he was saying there was NOTHING his admin could do. With the back half intact, there is no contradiction between what he said and what his admin did.

  • 717. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    R, don’t look at this. It ain’t what MSNBC said happened.

    That’s kinda silly. Do you really think ABC is all that much less liberal than NBC and its sister stations? I have no doubt MSNBC’s daytime coverage will hit the points made in the ABC story.

    And of course this is Z’s version. Unfortunately in a murder investigation, dead men tell no tales. That’s one reason you shouldn’t have a trash filled Twitter and Facebook feed cos it tells your story for you after you’re gone. :-(

  • 718. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    Noah … I didn’t assume you were Catholic. I was making a point.

    You think pedo is pervasive within the Catholic church with “ancient” origins. Fair enough. Is it pervasive enough for you to reject the legitimacy of the Catholic church?

    You say we need to take the bad with the good. Very true. I’ve admitted OWS had lots of bad actors associated with it rightly or wrongly. You have yet to admit any positive, idealistic or noble intent on the part of the movement.

    Despite what your wife tells you, size does matter. Oh that’s clever. Fat Grannies transformed you into a shrewish hag if you weren’t that way already when you went there. Take a page from Pfesser and James who seem to have emerged from Fat Grannies with their balls intact.

    Did the word “only” make it “technically” false? Yes I suppose so. Is it 99% accurate. Yes, yes it is. Over stated but true. Ah good. I won that argument and true to my word I apologize for drawing it out. :-)

  • 719. El Tigre  |  June 21, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    I told you not to look. :lol:

    I don’t care who’s reporting. Just ragging your selective recitation of events.

  • 720. El Tigre  |  June 21, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    “I sometimes think you have a secret plot to drive me insane … when I say “the sky is blue”, you say “frankly I don’t get that.”

    Yeah. Stewart had the same problem with it I did. It must be me. :roll:

    So you’re right. It was constitutional and proper. No contradictions here. :roll:

    R, sometimes I know you’re trying to drive me insane with your selective reading and comprehension.

  • 721. El Tigre  |  June 21, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    “With the back half intact, there is no contradiction between what he said and what his admin did.”

    Listen AGAIN!!!!!

  • 722. nagic  |  June 21, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    You have yet to admit any positive, idealistic or noble intent on the part of the movement.

    I addressed this as well, and you seem to have missed it as well. There are a great many opinions as to what OWS represents. I then went on to say since there are so many opinions, it is better to judge the results than all of these assumptions. I then went on to show a comparison between OWS and the Tea Party. Look at what the Tea Party stood for, look at what they accomplished, and look how little if any violence was necessary to accomplish said goal. Now look at OWS, look at all the crime and violence, and look at the tangible results.

    By these measures the Tea Party is one of the, if not the most successful political movement in our nations history, while OWS is one of the greatest failures.

    Ah good. I won that argument and true to my word I apologize for drawing it out.

    This shows the problem, and the flaw in your character Rutherford. As others have pointed out, this was never an argument about the word “only.” As you always do, when loosing an argument, you concentrate on some minor nuance and ignore the substance of the post. Its dishonest and you should know it. You “won” nothing. The fact you still refuse to admit this obvious point again highlights a flaw with you.

  • 723. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    You do do that alot.

    Yuk yuk yuk, you said “doo doo”. :lol:

    Tigre, the “substance” of what Noah originally said actually hinged around the word “only” because in using that word he dismissed ANY legitimacy the movement might have had. That’s substantial and that’s what I argued about. As I noted in 718, he did eventually agree that “only” was an overstatement. In my fervor I must have charged right past that concession.

    BTW, since you’re still annoyed by the Al Sharpton exchange, I was just needling you. I was amazed that you’d say anything positive about the man and when you did, I couldn’t help but rub it in your face a bit. In retrospect it was immature, but when I get on a roll sometimes it’s hard to get off. :-)

  • 724. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    OK one more off topic diversion into music … my apologies:
    I’m now listening to Iggy Pop’s “Nude and Rude: The Best of Iggy Pop”. It makes a nice companion piece to the Bowie greatest collection. “Cry for Love” is one of my favorites.

    One phenom I love is when an artist puts out a song so different from his previous style that it is almost unrecognizable. I heard Bowie’s “Modern Love” at least a dozen times before I knew it was him. Same thing with Michael Jackson’s “Don’t Stop Till You Get Enough”. I think I went months hearing that on the radio not realizing it was Jackson.

  • 725. PFesser  |  June 21, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    The world may be righting itself. All indications are that 1) George Zimmerman is going to get off, 2) Jerry Sandusky is going to spend the rest of his life taking it up the ass from large black men 3) BO is going to bite the dust in November, 4) Holder is going to at the very least be fired, 5) the Texas man who killed the child rapist will never hear any more about it, 6) Fat Grannies is going to go extinct 7) my quitting this job is the best thing I have ever done, and they are going to sell me my Mac here at work for a pittance and I can give it to my stepdaughter and 8) the people replacing me are going to be miserable 9) AAPL is going to at least 800.

    Shit, I need a cigarette – and I don’t even smoke.

    Speaking of needing a cigarette. A nurse just walked in on a somewhat loony wife giving her husband (the patient) a blowjob in the pre-op area. Are we a full-service hospital, or what? Hell, this like House of God…

  • 726. thorsaurus  |  June 21, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    Muffy, I brought up wide receiver because if Issa really wants to solve the problem and isn’t just trying to score political points, he’ll look at its origin. If Holder is guilty of breaking the law he should hang (metaphorically of course) but it seems to me the rush to judgment here flies in the face of what these guys have been bashing R for in the Z case. They are doing the same thing.

    And as for R trying to rile up Tex, I don’t think Tex needs any riling. I think he gets pissed off just going to the bathroom every morning. I can just see it after his first epic attempt.

    “F*ck, there’s no f*cking toilet paper! Obama and his f*ucking regulations. If I don’t find some f*ucking toilet paper soon I’m going use his f*ucking wife’s sasquatch afro to wipe my ass and then I’ll use it as a jonny mop.”

    Followed by a timid knock and wary voice. “Honey, you ok in there?” :)

  • 727. PFesser  |  June 21, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    I’m sorry – the woman was the patient. The anesthesiologist threatened to cancel her case because she was not NPO. (nothing to eat or drink after midnight). He was kidding of course. I think that is a pretty quick, er, comeback on his part.

  • 728. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    Stewart had the same problem with it I did.

    What video did you watch? He had a problem with it until he played the entire tape … then he had a problem with Fox.

  • 729. El Tigre  |  June 21, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    But R, the Sharpton exchange is a perfect example (like the whole “disdain” thing). You didn’t rub anything in my face. You kept insisting the opposite of what (1) I had actually meant, and (2) I actually wrote. It became like this OCD thing. A defense subconscious defense mechanism for knowing you got it wrong in the first place. Better to embrace it R. “Tree that does not bend breaks very easily.” -Master Po.

  • 730. thorsaurus  |  June 21, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    Rabbit, I think PSU should be banned from footbalI. I think the stadium should stand and be used as a Hall of Shame exhibiting the faces of child molesters, but never again hosting a sporting event. Sort of like the Romans salting the earth. Charging for attendance at the Michael Jackson wing alone would pay for the upkeep.

  • 731. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    look how little if any violence was necessary to accomplish said goal.

    This is where you are missing the point. OWS never cited violence as a means to accomplish anything. Maybe we’re just talking over each other. I told you that the whole notion of “occupying” invites social chaos due to human nature. That was the organizers fatal error. I take them at their word regarding their goals — fairness in the distribution of wealth and an end to our government run by banks. And I fully acknowledge they screwed the pooch by not using a different organizing strategy.

  • 732. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    Jerry Sandusky is going to spend the rest of his life taking it up the ass from large black men

    Don’t they typically try to put pedos with other pedos and isolate them from the general population? If so, he’ll be getting it up the ass from a white guy. Black men don’t swim and they tend not to f*ck little boys either.

    A nurse just walked in on a somewhat loony wife giving her husband (the patient) a blowjob in the pre-op area.

    Are you serious? The only way you could’ve topped that is if the nurse was the one giving the BJ. Had that been the case, damn … check me into that hospital!!!

    Speaking of which … as I neared the end of my five week stay in a physical rehab hospital six years ago, I started fantasizing about f*cking the physical therapist. That’s when I knew I had to get out of there … too much time away from the wife.

  • 733. El Tigre  |  June 21, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    “What video did you watch? He had a problem with it until he played the entire tape … then he had a problem with Fox.”

    God Bless It!! You’re doing it AGAIN!!!!

    5:57 – 6:28.

    Sheesh!

    Obama’s actions are indefensible. Period. It was an abuse of the executive order, and his b.s. with Holder is an abuse of execution privilege.

    And it matters not what Fox or Obama himself says about it.

  • 734. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    Followed by a timid knock and wary voice. “Honey, you ok in there?”

    LOL Thor you missed the punchline which is Tex’s reply to the wary voice.

    “Yes, dear.” :lol:

    P.S. With my IBS I actually do get pissed off going to the bathroom every morning. :-(

  • 735. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    PF … the woman was blowing the anesthesiologist???? :shock:

  • 736. nagic  |  June 21, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    This is where you are missing the point. OWS never cited violence as a means to accomplish anything.

    Ok I really really really want you to pay attention here. Remember where I said there were a lot of opinions on what OWS was about? Remember where I said rather than use speculation, lets look at the results. This means Rutherford, we are looking at what they did, not what they said. Not what they claimed, but what they did. Not words, but actions. Are we clear?

    So try responding to 722 in the context that was intended and made very clear to anyone with even the most basic reading comprehension.

    Lets take this one step further. In the context that I presented the accomplishments in 722, would you agree or disagree that the Tea Party was one of the most successful political movements in our nations history and is quite possibly the model that should be followed as how to organize and conduct a political movement?

  • 737. El Tigre  |  June 21, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    “Black men don’t. . . tend not to f*ck little boys either.”

    100% false.

    I’ve dealt with it as attorney many, many times. The only difference is how it’s dealt with by the families and the media.

  • 738. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    “Tree that does not bend breaks very easily.” -Master Po.

    “I like to hang by a rope while I jerk off.” — Grasshopper.

  • 739. thorsaurus  |  June 21, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    R, sorry to step on your 724 with 730. Passed in the cyber clouds. I would put Jewel’s “Intuition” on the chameleon list too.

  • 740. El Tigre  |  June 21, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    “And bendy trees are better to tie off on when jerking off so you don’t hang yourself.” -Master Po.

    (I knowhow you hate it when the entire quote is cut off)

  • 741. El Tigre  |  June 21, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    “If Holder is guilty of breaking the law he should hang (metaphorically of course) but it seems to me the rush to judgment here flies in the face of what these guys have been bashing R for in the Z case. They are doing the same thing.”

    Not complying with subpoenas and perjury are crimes. Where’s the rush? There has been unbelievable passage of time for the documents to have been compiled and produced.

  • 742. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    Tigre, I watched the specific segment you pointed me to … AGAIN man what video did you watch? He called Fox “motherf*ckers” for misleading the audience into thinking Obama’s current actions contradicted earlier statements. He then devolved into word salad trying to express what idiots Fox News are when they could have just said “Obama was always wrong on this”. They created a deception that actually obscured their point.

  • 743. muffy  |  June 21, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    “The whole thing is just silly, but people can believe what they want, so long as they keep it out of government.”

    Sounds good to me. I believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God. I couldn’t care less that you don’t. Really PF, I couldn’t. You believe Chaz Bono is a man. We’ve both got brain damage according to your link. Maybe we’re both right or maybe we’re both wrong.

    What separation of church and state event prompted this particular go-round? I don’t remember that coming up.

    I just don’t believe you when you say and say again that your only concern is the separation of church and state, even though I honestly appreciate your efforts to avoid the topic. Maybe now’s as good a time as an to thank you for that.

    Trust me, I’m not taking my meaning of life cues from either you or Rutherford, or Richard Jeni for that matter. You probably wouldn’t ever hear me talk about my core beliefs in that regard if I didn’t respond once in a while to the endless recycled jokes and digs at my beliefs. Honestly if the jokes were clever or original I’d even be able to appreciate the jokes for that alone. Clever goes a long way with me.

    Rutherford does try to bait you into engaging on this topic. I don’t believe I’ve called him on it nearly as many times as I’ve seen him do it.

    It’s a hot button issue and when you press it, you sometimes get the result you’re hoping for.

    Nice, that.

    ~

    Editing tape to manufacture news – it’s wrong to mislead people. Fox should know better and when they conveniently forget their journalistic ethics to influence people they are no better than the liberal media.

    To hell with squirmy rationalizations, it’s wrong when anyone does it. Not just a little wrong here but really wrong here and really really wrong there.

  • 744. Alfie  |  June 21, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    I’ve been tempted to play a role in the OWS argument within this thread a number of times and balked,I just have to jump now.
    I think the two parties are at far ends of the conversations potential spectrum.
    On one hand N makes it clear that OWS has a lot of arrests and acts stacked up on its collective ledger.
    N hasn’t given any indication that the quality of large swathes of arrests are intrinsically tied to the type of activity embraced by OWS. (Sit ins,blockades & general civil disobedience)
    N also doesn’t seem to hold any value in the truth that the “movement” was clearly infiltrated by folks that saw a meal & mood opportunity and had no desire or intention to embrace a political stance.
    For R’s world his steadfast embrace of the purity of OWS intent is ignorantly naive although somewhat tempered by his oft stated position that the message could’ve been delivered via properly permitted events and that such action not only may have proved more fruitful but more lasting.
    I do believe Rutherford failed to grasp (for some obvious and logical reasons) that ultimately N’s views that leftist guerrilla tactics are less legal and ultimately less successful than TPM actions was/is a basic truth especially in the USofA

  • 745. muffy  |  June 21, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    “2) Jerry Sandusky is going to spend the rest of his life taking it up the ass from large black men.”

    Don’t be so sure. I got a funny feeling. Juries in celebrity cases are impossible to predict.

    R, please fix my b’s. I won’t do it anymore.

  • 746. Tex Taylor  |  June 21, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    Thor, you’re such an obtuse sack and effeminate like tyke with the fragile ego, I hesitate to respond for fear you might go to pieces and give us your entire life story of woe here. Poolman’s videos are bad enough.

    I pretty much now perceive you as the 97lbs bunny who got ass whipped through grade school and became an adult “fiction author” wearing his Mr. Spock ears. I wouldn’t want to wound your family again taking a few liberties, then have to observe you whine to the room about it for another month.

    So I’ll try to walk lightly and piss on the bathroom floor instead of you.

    You going to work up the nerve to talk to me today direct, or are you going to take your ball and go home again while whining to Rutherford about how mean I am? Try to cuddle with all the gals in the room as they pacify you? Talk third party?

    Back to the topic at hand:

    About you comparing Wide Receiver to F & F where you attempted to bend light like that Goebbel’s type propaganda on your blog?

    Should we skip on by your misstatement and moral equivalence, or does me pointing out you have a huge problem with twisting fact wound you deeply too? :razz:

  • 747. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 1:44 pm

    Remember where I said there were a lot of opinions on what OWS was about?

    I’ve challenged you several times to document for me where OWS said they were about violence to achieve their ends. If you made that statement about the New Black Panthers, you’d get ZERO argument from me. (Although I don’t find five guys all that threatening … but that’s another argument.) I have watched several videos of OWS assemblies where the participants were there for the cause, not for the “fun”. Never heard a single person at the microphone scream “death to America!” or “Make your voice heard by stealing what is rightly yours”. The behavior at the assemblies was just as much “action” as the vandalism and crime that you judge the movement by.

    Hell man, don’t even produce documentation. Just post one video of an assembly where the person at the mic advocated violence.

    would you agree or disagree that the Tea Party was one of the most successful political movements in our nations history Hard to say and I’m not being coy. Judging by political action (elected representatives for example) the movement was a success. It remains to be seen what its lasting legacy will be. Also, I’ve watched more than one Tea Party leader very dissatisfied lately because the folks in DC claiming to represent them are selling them out. My guess is true Tea Party folks are not happy with Romney as the nominee. So they haven’t yet had an impact on presidential politics.

  • 748. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    100% false.

    You’re telling me that if I had to pick a demographic likely to be pedophiles I would be wrong to pick white guys vs black guys?

  • 749. muffy  |  June 21, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    “BO is going to bite the dust in November.”

    I don’t think so 

    I’ve got a new theory. Valleri Jarrett is behind the leaks, Solyndra, the exec order, everything.

    Holder is going to at the very least be fired”

    I bet this whole thing languishes until long after the getaway car has sped away.

    In all seriousness, the contempt for the law, the people, the branches of government is baffling. Either the Fox News watchers really are crazy or we’re all getting it you know where.

  • 750. Tex Taylor  |  June 21, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    Thor. One simple question. Have I guessed right all along and you do need toilet paper when you take a piss? :razz:

    That would explain a lot about some of your more apparent feminine problems.

  • 751. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    LOL Thor no problem … I don’t see pointing out Michael’s predilections as stepping on my observation of his new direction with “Don’t Stop…”

    I’m not familiar enough with Jewel’s style to comment so I’ll take your word for it.

  • 752. muffy  |  June 21, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    ”A nurse just walked in on a somewhat loony wife giving her husband (the patient) a blowjob in the pre-op area.”

    Better that than the wife walking in on the nurse.

  • 753. Tex Taylor  |  June 21, 2012 at 1:55 pm

    Here Rutherford. I’ll save Nagic the trouble. Here’s your occupiers this week – defending sex trafficking. You sure you want to continue to lend support? :grin:

  • 754. El Tigre  |  June 21, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    “You’re telling me that if I had to pick a demographic likely to be pedophiles I would be wrong to pick white guys vs black guys?”

    I didn’t say anything about picking. So, no.

    Based on my experience, I wager there is no difference.

    Did you learn something different in your Sociology class? :lol:

  • 756. Tex Taylor  |  June 21, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    Did you learn something different in your Sociology class? :lol:

    ** GUFFAW **

  • 757. Tex Taylor  |  June 21, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    Damn Rutherford. I am disappointed you haven’t even noticed my special gravatar – one I picked especially for you to honor President Tricky Dick Obama.

  • 758. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    Tex … c’mon man … the toilet paper rage scenario was funny. Get a bit of a sense of humor. You know full well when you get constipated you grunt “damn Obama” while you’re trying to pass the log. :-)

    P.S. If you actually DO have problems in the morning in the bathroom that are a sore spot for you, I’m sure Thor didn’t know about it and I apologize on his behalf.

  • 759. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    Either the Fox News watchers really are crazy or we’re all getting it you know where.

    I strongly suspect the former. :-)

  • 760. El Tigre  |  June 21, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    “He then devolved into word salad trying to express what idiots Fox News are when they could have just said “Obama was always wrong on this”. ”

    Rutherford, you’re a piece of work. You really are. Is this your “reverse gotcha.” You know, the term used by Stewart BECUASE THE FIRST HALF OF HIS COMMENT AND BACK HALF OF HIS COMMENT ARE IRRECONCILEABLE?

    I really shouldn’t work in a tall building. These exchanges have me looking for ways to jump and end it all. . .

    Yet I keep coming back like PF to Poolman. . .

  • 761. El Tigre  |  June 21, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    “I strongly suspect the former.”

    Another Rutherford prediction.

    All money goes on “getting it you know where.”

    (if that were the name of a race horse, the odds just changed in Vegas).

  • 762. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    Muffy, I fixed your boldness … well at least in the techie sense. ;-)

    C’mon now, just cos I quote Richard Jeni you’re gonna lump me in with him? Take my word for it, I’m not a paranoid schizo, I’m not suicidal and I’m only a tad bit depressed.

    Even though Jeni’s intent was to mock your religion, I suggest you do what I challenged Tex to do. Reverse engineer the joke with the assumption that you are completely right about your religion. The truth within the joke still holds true. One man’s faith, held in isolation, is mocked by even the most religious folks in the majority. That mocking extends to smaller groups (cults) also.

    I had a coworker, Tibby, back in the day who honestly believed that his soul left his body every night and flew around the world. My best friend at work, a Catholic, thought it was hilarious. Do you think he would have felt that way if Tibby’s spiritual views were shared by millions with an entire city built dedicated to his “religion”?

  • 763. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 2:17 pm

    Tex at the risk of sharing Waaaay too much, I DO use toilet paper. I find it way more hygienic than just “shaking off”. If that makes me prissy, so be it.

  • 764. PFesser  |  June 21, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    “PF … the woman was blowing the anesthesiologist????”

    No, the nurse reported it to the anesth who was going to be putting her to sleep, and that was his, er, comeback. Pretty snappy. He gets a HT for that one. I hope he has her rinse before he puts the tube down her throat.

    R -

    “Tree that does not bend breaks very easily.” -Master Po.
    “I like to hang by a rope while I jerk off.” — Grasshopper.

    Nobody say a word. If that ain’t knocking it out of the park I don’t know what is.

    Muffy opined:

    “good to me. I believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God. I couldn’t care less that you don’t. Really PF, I couldn’t.”

    Really, Muffy, I don’t care that you don’t care, I really don’t; that is not the object of the exercise. Feel free to express your opinion. I shall do the same.

    “You believe Chaz Bono is a man.”

    I do not, and have never said that. I believe that, in his/her mind she believes she is a man trapped in a woman’s body. A very different thing from being “a man”. Genetically I believe she is probably a female. As for her personal, heart-of-hearts identity, I see no reason to doubt her word that she sees herself as a man.

    Getting a sex change is not something you undertake as a lark, especially when you are famous and sure to be dragged through every tabloid on the planet. My hat’s off to his/her balls, so to speak.

    “We’ve both got brain damage according to your link. Maybe we’re both right or maybe we’re both wrong.”

    Bofe – us? That link was just in fun, to have a little sport. I only skimmed the article, but thought it would amuse Rutherford. Lighten up, Tiger.

    “What separation of church and state event prompted this particular go-round? I don’t remember that coming up.”

    It didn’t.

    “I just don’t believe you when you say and say again that your only concern is the separation of church and state, even though I honestly appreciate your efforts to avoid the topic. Maybe now’s as good a time as an to thank you for that.”

    You are mistaken, and you are quite welcome.

  • 765. Tex Taylor  |  June 21, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    Tex … c’mon man … the toilet paper rage scenario was funny. Get a bit of a sense of humor.

    I would think if I’ve proven anything here, I like to laugh. I rarely find Thor funny. I do almost always find him the swollen hemorrhoid within the cellulite ass cheeks of Leftyism.

    No, the Nagger episode of South Park was funny. You taking a Sociology class is funny. The Rabbit is always funny.

    Thor is the constipated log I must pass. Substitute the word Thor for Obama, and then I would have laughed. Just glad it passed and to be rid of it, flushed where it belongs.

    Fortunately, there was a lot of Metamucil on that feckless thing he’s created. :wink:

  • 766. muffy  |  June 21, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    ”I brought up wide receiver because if Issa really wants to solve the problem and isn’t just trying to score political points, he’ll look at its origin.”

    It’s my understanding that Senator Grassly looked into it and Holder retracted some of his public statements on WR, but in any case – what does that have to do with the weird flips of Holder’s statements? I don’t blame Issa for having enough of Holder’s games.

    You don’t think something’s fishy here? Straight up.

    ”…the rush to judgment here…”

    Are you kidding me? Rush to judgment? Try stonewall. The deal Holder offered Issa at the end was a seriously unfunny joke. I realize the wheels move slowly but it’s not like Holder has been cooperative. Talking points aside, it’s like he can’t be bothered and has contempt for congress.

    ”I don’t think Tex needs any riling..”

    Fine. I think I see a pattern of picking fights with Tex. You don’t. As long as we’re being honest here.

    ~

    ”I really shouldn’t work in a tall building.”

    *chuckle*

  • 767. El Tigre  |  June 21, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    “Bofe – us? That link was just in fun, to have a little sport. I only skimmed the article, but thought it would amuse Rutherford. Lighten up, Tiger.”

    Heh?

  • 768. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 2:34 pm

    Tex, sorry dude, your video only proves what idiots some people are.

    “The protesters mostly were members of Occupy Oakland Patriarchy, a group within the overall Occupy movement tasked with overthrowing our civilization’s “patriarchy.” How many times have I said that Occupy has not controlled folks acting in their name? It was always a come one, come all affair …. tragically so.

    And to split hairs, and I admit I am splitting hairs, the protesters believe the anti-trafficking group is a front for oppression of adult women who choose to work in the sex trade. They did NOT advocate child trafficking.

    Regardless, it is reasonable for you and Noah to believe this is all Occupy is about. That is the core of their failure — failure to control the message.

    P.S. An article elaborates on what they did and their message contradicted itself. On the one hand they said they were proud sex workers but on the other hand said they were forced into sex trade by an evil capitalist system. Nutjobs IMHO.

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/are-occupy-oakland-members-in-favor-of-child-sex-trafficking-wait-until-you-read-what-theyre-saying/

  • 769. PFesser  |  June 21, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    ET -

    “Bofe – us?” Heh?

    That is ebonics for “both of us?” Comes from the old joke: Two black guys come upon a white guy adjusting his camera and pointing it at them.

    “Wha’ he doin’?”

    “He tryin’ to focus.”
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    ….”Bofe us?”

  • 770. nagic  |  June 21, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    “N hasn’t given any indication that the quality of large swathes of arrests are intrinsically tied to the type of activity embraced by OWS. (Sit ins,blockades & general civil disobedience)”

    Check statement 132 on this thread. I think I gave a strong indication what kind of arrests were about. Having read that do you still contend your statement is true?

  • 771. dead rabbit  |  June 21, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    Nagic, you eat saltines and drink grape juice for no apparent reason other then symbolism, the very definition of “hoopla”. Catholics believe in transubstantiation, a miracle. You may believe it’s bat shit crazy, but it seems to me its the farthest thing from “hoopla”. I’m not judging your saltines by the way.

  • 772. muffy  |  June 21, 2012 at 2:57 pm

    PF – OK, you do not think Chaz Bono is a man. My mistake.

    PS..I don’t recall saying anything about a transgender operation being a lark, so I hope the lecture was free. (I just don’t think it changes someone’s sex. I see that we agree on that.)

  • 773. nagic  |  June 21, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    . Never heard a single person at the microphone scream “death to America!”

    Come again?

  • 774. nagic  |  June 21, 2012 at 3:07 pm

    would you agree or disagree that the Tea Party was one of the most successful political movements in our nations history Hard to say and I’m not being coy.

    This suggest that there are others contending for a top spot. Show me another movement who stated their objectives as clearly as the Tea Party did, and who had the level of tangible success that the Tea Party did with as little violence as the Tea Party did.

  • 775. nagic  |  June 21, 2012 at 3:14 pm

    How many times have I said that Occupy has not controlled folks acting in their name? It was always a come one, come all affair …. tragically so.

    If this is true, and it is not, but if this is true, why didn’t it happen at the Tea Party events at the same levels you claim happened at OWS? How did the Tea Party manage to do what OWS could not, ie protest without HUNDREDS of felonies?

  • 776. nagic  |  June 21, 2012 at 3:17 pm

    I would also like to point out another point of intellectual dishonesty on your part Rutherford. You said…….

    Hell man, don’t even produce documentation. Just post one video of an assembly where the person at the mic advocated violence.

    Yet no matter who we cite, you “claim” they are an uncontrolled element and not mart of the OWS movement. You have set up an argument where it is impossible for us to prove you wrong and thus impossible for you to loose.

  • 777. muffy  |  June 21, 2012 at 3:18 pm

    But if she’s not a man and she prefers women, how is she not a lesbian?

    hjklahkmcfslmcfksljfcmkz;

    (that was my head hitting the keyboard).

  • 778. PFesser  |  June 21, 2012 at 3:23 pm

    muffy -

    I certainly didn’t mean to pick a fight with you. I really don’t know what “gender” means. Is it genetic gender? Then that might mean one thing. Is it “how I see myself?” That could be something else. What the answer is depends on what one believes the question means. I don’t assign Chaz one gender or the other.

    The “lark” comment was to emphasize that I don’t think she’s just fooling about; this is a very serious matter for someone to have their gonads removed and very painful reconstruction of opposite-gender equipment. I know a lot of folks hold her/him up to ridicule but I don’t feel that way. Once you have dealt with these folks on a one-to-one basis and see that they are just good people in a lot of anguish, it changes your perspective. No lecture intended.

  • 779. PFesser  |  June 21, 2012 at 3:29 pm

    “But if she’s not a man and she prefers women, how is she not a lesbian?
    hjklahkmcfslmcfksljfcmkz;
    (that was my head hitting the keyboard).”

    Don’t drive yourself crazy. The problem is that sometimes things don’t go into neat pigeonholes with a yes/no/black/white/gay/lesbian/straight label. The problem is that humans create these labels to begin with, not that people are screwed up because they don’t fit one of them. Nature is constantly experimenting, and as the sign on my chem lab prof’s door read:

    Harvard Law
    Under the most rigorously controlled conditions of
    pressure, temperature, volume, humidity, and other
    variables, the organism will do as it damn well pleases.

    You bet’cha.

  • 780. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 4:12 pm

    Noah focus:

    the quality of large swathes of arrests are intrinsically tied to the type of activity embraced by OWS. (Sit ins,blockades & general civil disobedience)

    Listing a bunch of felonies does not prove that these acts reflect what OWS embraces. 132 does not answer Alfie’s question.

    I’ve fallen behind on comments at this point but Tex actually did you a huge favor with his “child trafficking” video. If you want to attempt to suggest the OWS ideology itself is sick, videos like Tex’s are the ones you should be posting. I still don’t think Occupy Oakland Patriarchy is a faction the average OWS member would trumpet as representing the cause.

  • 781. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 4:27 pm

    . Never heard a single person at the microphone scream “death to America!”

    Come again?

    Noah do you know what an Occupy Assembly is? I’m beginning to doubt it. “Ralph” was not speaking to a crowd at an Occupy assembly. Ralph’s affiliation with Occupy is completely undefined (at least in that video). Ralph was clearly expressing a personal opinion and never stated that was Occupy’s agenda. In fact he says the opposite “it’s a bunch of people in a f*n park, mad, all mad but they’re not doing it, but if it was up to me ….” In other words, the folks are pissed but they’re NOT doing what Ralph would like to see, 911 9/11′s.

    Close but no cigar. As I move further down the thread I’ll see if you did any better. This one gets an F.

  • 782. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 4:33 pm

    Show me another movement who stated their objectives as clearly as the Tea Party did, and who had the level of tangible success that the Tea Party did with as little violence as the Tea Party did.

    Off the top of my head, the women’s suffrage movement, the Prohibition movement (which got legislation passed even though in the long view of history it failed), the MLK branch of the Civil Rights Movement (violence was done against them, not originated by them). That’s just three. I’m sure the better history buffs on this blog could offer a few more.

  • 783. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 4:37 pm

    But if she’s not a man and she prefers women, how is she not a lesbian?

    Muffy her preference for women is not what motivated the sex change. Had she been happy “in her own skin” and liked women, she would have been your classic lesbian. This is more complicated.

  • 784. Rutherford  |  June 21, 2012 at 4:42 pm

    You have set up an argument where it is impossible for us to prove you wrong and thus impossible for you to loose.

    Not true. See my response to the video you posted. The best way to get at their original intent is to watch videos of the Assemblies. When you post a video of an Assembly where the speaker advocates violence, I will gladly admit my flaw. Videos of interviews with hangers-on expressing personal opinions don’t count. Videos of splinter groups are better (I gave Tex that) but still don’t really refute my point.

  • 785. nagic  |  June 21, 2012 at 4:44 pm

    Listing a bunch of felonies does not prove that these acts reflect what OWS embraces. 132 does not answer Alfie’s question.

    Never assume reading comprehension. Many of the crimes I showed in that list were of the types you showed..ie….(Sit ins,blockades & general civil disobedience)…good God read man.

  • 786. PFesser  |  June 21, 2012 at 4:57 pm

    Rutherford -

    I am suspicious of attempts to paint the OWS people as just a bunch of ne’er-do-wells and criminals. That is the classic way governments get rid of such critics – paint them as criminals, and then the public doesn’t care if the govt handles them harshly. That is why MLK Jr. spoke of the stages that his protesters/followers must go through, including purification. Paraphrasing: “Are you willing to accept the blows and the dogs and the water-cannons without retaliating? If you are not, then go home.” The very moment you allow yourself to be provoked, the authorities will focus the cameras on YOU and paint YOU as representing the whole.

    I saw these people when I visited the WTS site last November. They were a pretty rag-tag group and the police did everything they could to provoke them to do something outrageous, so they could arrest them. There were no bathrooms available, and some of them sure enough took a leak on the street. No other choice. Some of the merchants let them use THEIR restrooms.

    Yep, they surely attract the loonies, but these people’s biggest problem is that they have no MLK to guide them.

    Which reminds me; I do two things EVERY year of my life: I visit Monticello at least once, and I read King’s “Letter from a Birmingham Jail.” I have mentioned the latter here before. If you never read anything else in your life, read that.

  • 787. James  |  June 21, 2012 at 5:08 pm

    One correction, Rutherford, the Sufferigette movement had violent momenents. In England,they blocked traffic, and sometimes used terrorism to make their point. They worked in concert with the British and reps visited each other’s countries.

    In England, they fire bombed homes, churches, and they chained themselves to the gates of Buckingham Palace.

    You are right that the American wing of the movement was closer to the Martin Luther King demonstrations, but even here, they engaged in civil disobediance and confrontation. They used mass arrests as a PR move to make authorities look like abusers.

  • 788. nagic  |  June 21, 2012 at 5:10 pm

    This is pointless Rutherford. You cannot be object…you cannot be honest. There is no way to pin you down to get you to admit your side can do wrong. Every time someone get close, you move the carrot. Guess it pays to be vague in your answers because anytime someone pins you down you can claim you misspoke or misunderstood and just reset the rules/criteria.

    This is all just hanging on the word “only” just in different forms. Pick your words very very carefully my friend because I am going to keep a log of every exact word and I am going to hang your ass every single chance I get. You want to be precise, I will take it to an all new level, show you how idiotic you are being.

    You go ahead and claim this hollow victory, I am going to delve into your previous articles and start to compile what I am sure is going to be a long list of hypocrisies and errors on your part. Fair warning, claiming ignorance of the English language and the meaning of words will not be a valid excuse.

    There were no bathrooms available, and some of them sure enough took a leak on the street. No other choice.

    I love how you down play the truth. What a dishonest little bitch you are.

    This isn’t just taking a leak.

  • 789. James  |  June 21, 2012 at 5:15 pm

    The assemblies don’t mean squat. They were OWS’s public face. Spy on the financiers and planners to find their true intent.

    I believe they like many such movements, including sometimes the Tea Party and especially the Vietnam Era anti- war movement. The ground troops didn’t necessarily know what was going on at the top. They were being played.

  • 790. James  |  June 21, 2012 at 5:19 pm

    I should have added after movement “are disconnected from the organizers and leaders”.

  • 791. James  |  June 21, 2012 at 5:23 pm

    779 Blue eyed blonds are examples of some of Nature’s finest experiments!!

  • 792. PFesser  |  June 21, 2012 at 8:16 pm

    @791 – Maybe so, James, but I consider THIS

    http://www.functionx.com/people/swilliams/swilliams1.gif

    to be one of nature’s finest work, and I’d wager her eyes are NOT blue.

  • 793. Tex Taylor  |  June 21, 2012 at 8:26 pm

    Have you guys been following this? This is the cruelest thing I believe I have ever witnessed in my life – certainly verbally. To make matters even worse, the woman is both a widow an had a child commit suicide.

    What in the hell is wrong with kids anymore?

    http://www.indiegogo.com/loveforkarenhklein

  • 794. Alfie  |  June 21, 2012 at 8:35 pm

    @nagic 770
    I stand by the full context and entirety of my #744 and hold that it is a true opinion and assessment of the statements and posture of the dialog found throughout this thread.
    #132 does not alter my observation,in fact it helped to provide part of the foundation for it.

  • 795. dead rabbit  |  June 21, 2012 at 8:57 pm

    Nagic, Rutherford is playing games with you. He’s basically saying the thousands of instances of depravity do not represent the OWS movement. Following his logic, the millions murdered in Stalinist death camps don’t represent communism either.

    Now, what makes this so ironic is that Rutherford spent 6 months trying to defame the Tea Party by scouring the internet for bad individuals. He even blamed them for hanging someone for a while.

    At a certain point, you would think Rutherford would stand back and say, “I don’t know what the original intent of the OWS was and I don’t care. It was an embarrassing for all involved. And I was wrong about its influence on America.”

    Nagic, you have to realize, existentially, Rutherford is hanging on a thread. You are new here. His take on OWS is just the tip of the iceberg with this guy. He is the wrongest person in the world. He is like the old LA Clippers. KC Royals post George Brett. Nichols Cage. Joey Buttafuco. Mr. Bill. Screech.

    Save your ammo for the good stuff. Dude will go on tangents you cant believe. He blamed Sara Palin for the shooting in Arizona. I shit you not. His take on OWS is small potatoes.

  • 796. Alfie  |  June 21, 2012 at 9:12 pm

    Let me help our beleaguered host out a little…

    Following his logic, the millions murdered in Stalinist death camps don’t represent communism either.

    Technically that is true. Stalinism was in many ways more than just a variant of communism.

  • 797. Alfie  |  June 21, 2012 at 9:14 pm

    What is the most important story from the headlines for America right now?
    Sandusky?
    Syria?
    Egypt?
    Fast & Furious?
    The Economy?

  • 798. Alfie  |  June 21, 2012 at 9:20 pm

    FWIW I got to vote The Economy. I just looked at how 15 big banks that just got Moody’ed list 4 that have potential impact for me. Looks like I might need a bigger tent.

  • 799. dead rabbit  |  June 21, 2012 at 9:54 pm

    The econemy.

  • 800. PFesser  |  June 21, 2012 at 10:01 pm

    Agree with the economy, but Fast/Furious is very, very scary. Poor I can live with; a boot on my neck might force me to deal with it.

  • 801. muffy  |  June 21, 2012 at 10:09 pm

    Egypt
    The economy
    Syria

  • 802. dead rabbit  |  June 21, 2012 at 10:49 pm

    Ii don’t even want to add up how much less my saftey deposit box is worth today. :-)

  • 804. Tex Taylor  |  June 21, 2012 at 11:18 pm

    The economy short term; the entire Middle East long term.

    I suppose the bank downgrades are Bush’s fault too, hey Thor? Throw in the Tea Party as accomplice…

  • 805. Tex Taylor  |  June 21, 2012 at 11:21 pm

    Nice commercial, Tigre. :razz:

    Whole lot of truth in that little bender…

  • 806. Rutherford  |  June 22, 2012 at 12:57 am

    Many of the crimes I showed in that list were of the types you showed..ie….(Sit ins,blockades & general civil disobedience)

    Sit-ins, blockades and general civil disobedience are crimes? The whole point of most of these protest methods is that they are lawful. Now who’s being intellectually dishonest? You weren’t yelling and screaming about civil disobedience. You were lecturing me about felonies — rape, murder, selling one’s child into prostitution.

  • 807. Rutherford  |  June 22, 2012 at 1:00 am

    I am suspicious of attempts to paint the OWS people as just a bunch of ne’er-do-wells and criminals. …

    Many thanks PF, seriously. I’m doing this back and forth with Noah and with the exception of Alfie so far, I’ve heard nothing but crickets. Thank you for adding one more fair voice to the mix.

  • 808. poolman  |  June 22, 2012 at 1:00 am

    Wow. You guys have been busy.

    Looks like I will extract some more fiat from the fat cats that prefer to float in their own backyards. For the time being, anyway. I’m riding this economic surge till it crashes on all those shiny beaches.

    Soon, we’ll be accepting silver and gold in exchange for water vessels. Maybe a little barter can suffice for those unwilling to liquefy their assets.

    Most important news headline isn’t in your list, Alfie. But not unusual for what the media offers.

    Top news Serious Fed Audit voting next month. Thank you Ron Paul. Somebody has to fight for freedom and liberty.

    Once again, the time is come.

  • 809. Rutherford  |  June 22, 2012 at 1:02 am

    BTW, I know I owe you guys a new thread. Other than juggling a few things this week I’ve also been torn on which topic I want to cover. Stay tuned.

  • 810. Rutherford  |  June 22, 2012 at 1:03 am

    Civil disobedience is called civil for a reason. It is non-violent.

  • 811. nagic  |  June 22, 2012 at 1:06 am

    806 Rutherford you either did not read what I said or you are an idiot. Look again at what you said..read my response and try your luck again.

  • 812. Rutherford  |  June 22, 2012 at 1:12 am

    I love how you down play the truth. What a dishonest little bitch you are.

    Better check your comment history dude. You just called PF a bitch. I didn’t make the statement about pissing. :lol:

    And PLEASE Noah, read every word I write. If you were a fly on the wall of my office (instead of being a fly in your mother’s basement) you’d see how often I backspace and choose a different word because I want to be PRECISE. I’m not perfect. You may catch me up now and then. Have fun with it.

    Oh as for combing through past articles, have fun with that too but don’t waste too many brain cells cos Tex, Rabbit and others who have been here MUCH longer than your punk ass have already slammed me for my contradictions. You’ll just be revisiting old territory and boring your audience. But have at it ….. whatever floats your dinghy.

  • 813. Rutherford  |  June 22, 2012 at 1:20 am

    Hey Rabbit, regarding your advice to Noah … f*ck you.

    I didn’t scour sh*t to defame the Tea Party. Their racist signage was EVERYWHERE in the media except maybe Fox. So it took ZERO effort to pounce on them. In fact the volume of bad press should have tipped me off that there was more there than met the eye. I’ve conceded more than once that I jumped the gun on it. (I also wrote a blog post with a huge mea culpa about the census worker who hung himself.)

    I’m probably the only liberal dude you know who has admitted when he got stuff wrong,

    So again, with all sincerity Rabbit, f*ck you and the horse you rode in on.

  • 814. Rutherford  |  June 22, 2012 at 1:23 am

    What is the most important story from the headlines for America right now?
    Sandusky? — NO
    Syria? — Perhaps
    Egypt? — NO
    Fast & Furious? — Perhaps in that there may be fallout.
    The Economy? — Absof*ckinglutely!

  • 815. nagic  |  June 22, 2012 at 1:28 am

    Actually Rutherford, now that I have been given a little history lesson on you about your actions with the Tea Party, and to actually have the gall to use the defense you did, these guys are right about you. You are just a dishonest wanna be who happens to write well sometimes. Fat grannies got a pass sometimes because the old bitties were too ignorant to know any better. You have no excuse, and only a serious lack of scruples and character could account for it. I no longer feel obligated to play nice ;)

  • 816. Rutherford  |  June 22, 2012 at 1:29 am

    806 Rutherford you either did not read what I said or you are an idiot. Look again at what you said..read my response and try your luck again.

    Since what you said was a response to Alfie, try reading 794 and then call Alfie an idiot. We’ll see how far that gets you. I stand by my response in 806.

  • 817. Rutherford  |  June 22, 2012 at 1:38 am

    I no longer feel obligated to play nice ;)

    You’re kidding right? Like I said in a previous comment, go back to Fat Grannies and exchange that chip on your shoulder for the pair of balls you left there.

  • 818. thorsaurus  |  June 22, 2012 at 2:53 am

    R, your exchanges with Nagic remind me of this classic scene from City Slickers.

  • 819. an800lbgorilla  |  June 22, 2012 at 7:13 am

    Technically that is true. Stalinism was in many ways more than just a variant of communism. – Alfie

    Yeah, what about the millions killed by Mao in China?

    Or Pol Pot in Cambodia?

    Or the Kim’s in North Korea?

    Or Castro and liberal hero Che in Cuba?

    The list goes on, and on, and on. It’s funny, the left will go apeshit or the number of dead from the crusades and religious war in general, but ignore the fact that if you added up all the wars- WWI, WWII, Crusades, etc- they still would not add up to the number dead through Communism.

  • 820. PFesser  |  June 22, 2012 at 7:52 am

    Rutherford -

    I would apply the same standards to OWS and the Tea Party; I have met a few people from both.

    They both tend to attract the lunatic fringe from those cohorts, as I am sure MLK’s civil rights marches attracted some ringers, too, but the difference is that the Civil Rights Movement had MLK at the head, and he understood very well that this group had to be controlled. (And if you think about it, the stakes were much, much higher if his movement were to become marginalized by people pointing to the loonies and saying, see – here is how THEY all are. You, for one, might not even know how to *spell* Hahhhhhhvaaaaahhhhhddd.)

    The OWS people I met in NY were a little sketch, I’ll give you that, but I don’t think they represented *everybody*.

    The Tea Party people I have met have all been pretty reasonable; they just can’t fucking pay any more taxes. My take on it is that if you pick the loonies and try to tar the whole group with them, you are doing everybody, including yourself, a big disservice. I think BOTH movements have some very valid points, and those whose oxes are about to be gored by them will do anything to discredit either group.

    Just my take on it.

  • 821. Tex Taylor  |  June 22, 2012 at 8:06 am

    “R”,

    Got to tell you bud. If you were being totally honest, you wouldn’t be discounting Nagic so easily. And you ought to know that.

    In truthfulness, I recognize that OWS was meant to be the mirror image to the Tea Party. That 1% stuff was a bunch of baloney from the start, because everyone they protested was perceived as right wing. Those goons in NYC could have gone to the West side of upper Manhattan and protested everyone of the uber liberal schmucks. Didn’t do it. Why weren’t they ought there searching for Jon Corzine?

    Bunch of leftist phonies, liars and blowhards, and a front group of Soros, the SEIU, and the left wing of the Left wing.

    I understand your political sympathies and your wishes. Your goosesteppers are frantically searching for an offset to OWS. Good luck – like trying to find a left Limbaugh, not going to happen. OWS actually was a real groundswell of support.

    However, what started out as a protest very quickly evolved into a zoo. There probably were a bunch of Rutherford and Thor types down there initially. But it wasn’t 72 hours into it, that even the law abiding left wing were quickly overrun with the deviants, the anarchists, the drum beaters and defecators, the dope heads and strung out.

    And I think you ought to ask yourself, Rutherford – if you were being honest.

    Why does my party continue to attract the millions of parasites that are a pox on our entire nation, marching us toward Gomorrah? Been this way for 50 years now. Frankly, I think you like it that way.

  • 822. Tex Taylor  |  June 22, 2012 at 8:09 am

    :oops: The Tea Party actually was a groundswell of support. Don’t talk to your wife and try to think and type. I can walk and chew gum. Obviously, I can’t walk, chew gum and visit with the Mrs.

  • 823. James  |  June 22, 2012 at 8:44 am

    792 Pfessor, I have to agree. She was another successful experiment.

    789 again. If you want to know what a movement stands for investigate the organizers and leaders. They are the people who count. OWS was largely a group of anti -capitalists who would create a socialist nirvana.

    The press, who no longer try very hard to hide their bias attempted to create OWS into something they were not. The movement faded because they so overplayed their hand so badly that anyone paying attention saw through their lies.

    I agree with 821.

    Since liberals attempted to blame Sarah Palin for the Arizona shooting, I will play the same game. Our press never cared about the welfare of our troops when they bemoaned the rising death toll in the two wars Bush took us to. They cared about getting rid of Bush as they played the Democrats’ Slow Bleed plan.

    They carefully noted the crossing of the 2000 mark in Iraq, but they have ignored the milestone in Afghanistan.

    The Obama administration can’t even remember Brian Terry’s name. Jay Carney of all people should have made it a point to remember. Maybe I missed the story.

    Right Wing News and the Washington Post have lists of the hottest political conservative women.

  • 824. Tex Taylor  |  June 22, 2012 at 9:06 am

    Hey. I got another Obama campaign slogan for 2012. Lot catchier than “Are you with Us?”

    How about…

    “We are the one we’ve been waning for!”?

  • 825. PFesser  |  June 22, 2012 at 10:51 am

    http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/going-viral-millions-watch-microsoft-surface-crash-during-debut/80653

    Kind of hearkens back to the exact same thing happening about fifteen years ago.

    This is why we are an all-Mac office.

  • 826. Rutherford  |  June 22, 2012 at 11:30 am

    Some dark British levity about the state of the world economy.

  • 827. Rutherford  |  June 22, 2012 at 11:33 am

    Thor, I hope I was Billy Crystal in that scene. :-)

  • 828. El Tigre  |  June 22, 2012 at 11:37 am

    “Thor, I hope I was Billy Crystal in that scene.”

    ?????

  • 829. Rutherford  |  June 22, 2012 at 11:38 am

    PF, I do agree with your assessment of OWS and the Tea Party. The loons in the Tea Party played upon my prejudices the same way the loons in OWS play upon those of some on this board.

    I wrote many months ago that Elizabeth Warren running for Senate was a waste of time. She should attempt to become the titular head of the OWS movement. But then, they don’t want to be led by anyone. In fact, they seem resistant to any sensible governing structure. :neutral:

  • 830. Rutherford  |  June 22, 2012 at 11:42 am

    Why does my party continue to attract the millions of parasites that are a pox on our entire nation, marching us toward Gomorrah?

    Have you asked yourself why your party continues to attract (at least within the past 20 to 30 years and intensifying in the past four) racists and misogynists? I don’t suggest that you should abandon your party because of its bad actors. And I don’t intend to abandon mine, unless my philosophy changes once I grow up. ;-)

  • 831. Rutherford  |  June 22, 2012 at 11:45 am

    Regarding 822, damn … I thought you’d had an epiphany.

  • 832. Rutherford  |  June 22, 2012 at 11:49 am

    Right Wing News and the Washington Post have lists of the hottest political conservative women.

    From what I understand S.E. Cupp will be hosting her own show on MSNBC. That bastion of liberal gibberish gives yet more air time to a conservative voice. :-)

    P.S. I like Cupp. She’s light and breezy, seems to have a sense of humor and unlike Liz Cheney and Michelle Malkin, she doesn’t look like she desperately needs to take a dump.

  • 833. Rutherford  |  June 22, 2012 at 11:52 am

    PF your office would be in the minority. From what I understand, Microsoft has a strangle hold on business. Apple has a strangle hold on the education and media arts sectors.

  • 834. Rutherford  |  June 22, 2012 at 11:53 am

    Tigre, watch the City Slickers clip that Thor posted and then tell me why you’re confused.

  • 835. Tex Taylor  |  June 22, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    Have you asked yourself why your party continues to attract (at least within the past 20 to 30 years and intensifying in the past four) racists and misogynists?

    Funny how the GOP is always accused of wanting to bring back racial institutions by a party that actually has massive amounts of them, looking to misogynists Bill Maher, David Letterman, Chris Matthews, and Ed Schultz as its lead. Is Sarah Palin, Bristol Palin, Laura Ingraham and Michelle Bachmann cunts or twats today, Rutherford?

    By the way, I can add misandry to your convicted if you wish to take a look at your mirror blog: :wink:

    margaretandhelen.com/2012/06/21/vagina-is-a-6-letter-word/

  • 836. muffy  |  June 22, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    They need the ratings, Rutherford. What likeable liberal eye candy do you suggest Fox tap to bring up their ratings?

  • 837. Alfie  |  June 22, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    @ gorilla #819
    Charge me with word twisting or whatever. Stalinism and everything you mentioned exists within the realm of the immediate departure from communism and true Marxism into assorted fascist,nationalist and assorted dictatorial regimes.
    The founders of communism and various socialism models envisioned revolution and by that accepted death to varying degrees but they didn’t mean for pogroms to be the norm.
    Bottom line “communism” and “socialism” as humanity has known it has been a lie.

  • 838. muffy  |  June 22, 2012 at 12:20 pm

    “Have you asked yourself why your party continues to attract (at least within the past 20 to 30 years and intensifying in the past four) racists and misogynists?”

    When did Romney move ahead with the black vote?

    When Bill Maher donates $1MM to Romney’s campaign then we can talk about the misogynists on the right.

  • 839. muffy  |  June 22, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    Good think Keef isn’t still over on MSNBC. He thought S.E. should have been aborted by her parents.

  • 840. Tex Taylor  |  June 22, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    Have you asked yourself why your party continues to attract (at least within the past 20 to 30 years and intensifying in the past four) racists and misogynists? I don’t suggest that you should abandon your party because of its bad actors.

    Says the diehard always accusing the GOP of wanting to bring back racial institutions by a party that actually has massive amounts of them.

    Do you remember when Bill Maher said that the real name of then-20-year-old Bristol Palin’s book should be “Whoops, There’s a Dick in Me?”

    Do you remember when Bill Maher called Gov. Sarah Palin a “cunt” and a “dumb twat” as you chuckled along?

    How about Ed Schultz referring to Laura Ingraham as ‘Right Wing Slut’ on his radio show?

    Keith Olbermann has said that conservative commentator S.E. Cupp should have been aborted by her parents, and called Michelle Malkin a “mashed-up bag of meat with lipstick.”

    How about when Matt Taibbi referred to Michelle Bachmann as “skank”?

    Do you like the Rap lyrics commonly laced with Ho and Bitch? Doubt they’ll be pulling the GOP levers.

    How about Donna Dewitt, the outgoing president of AFL-CIO South Carolina, bashed a piñata bearing a photograph of Gov. Nikki Haley?

    Hustler has published an image—“a composite fantasy” in the magazine’s description—of conservative commentator S.E. Cupp with a phallus in her mouth? Larry Flynt is apparently about as left winged as you.

    David Letterman “joked” that Gov. Palin experienced an awkward moment when Alex Rodrigues knocked up Willow Palin during the 7th inning stretch. Willow Palin is 14 years old.

    —-

    You don’t like Nagic Rutherford, because he’s got your hypocrisy down flat, and since he’s not as rough around the edges as Tex, you’ve found someone you think you can bully.

    Hate to break it to you, but he’s got you pegged, Mr. Duplicity.

    And we won’t even go into the rampant misandry of your Dear Party, well demonstrated by the daily barrage of thousands of feminist blogs like Wonderful Margaret & Helen.

  • 841. Tex Taylor  |  June 22, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    Muffy, Rutherford is obviously a step up from the OWS crowd.

    But that doesn’t substitute as an indoctrinated Leftist from cradle near grave, R is more than willing to outrageously bend the truth when required. Never forget that when you’re dealing with him. I learned that about him, not on his blog but his radio show.

  • 842. Tex Taylor  |  June 22, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    Like I was saying about your endeared party, Mr. Rutherford. The party of institutional racism, deviancy and debauchery. Long live the gay movement and Larry Flynt, hey? :wink:

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/activists-take-out-frustration-ronald-reagan_647733.html

  • 843. Tex Taylor  |  June 22, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    If Obama had sons, would they look like this (shit)?

    http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20120621/ARTICLES/120629929/1177?Title=Five-facing-charges-for-murder-of-delivery-driver

  • 844. Alfie  |  June 22, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    Rutherford I think you should probably expand a little on your #830 it could definitely withstand it.
    The last few years for the GOP is actually kind of impressive. Jindal,Haley,Rubio & West. Although I don’t like the guy from LA. the party that shows actual development and growth isn’t the (D) crowd.
    On a social front I was tempted to mention earlier but the SBC is seating a black pastor from LA. as the next convention president.

  • 845. PFesser  |  June 22, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    History given on request for CT of head:

    Crack overdose. Altered mental status.

    D’ya think?

    Where do we get these doctors, anyway?

  • 846. James  |  June 22, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    The house band on a talk show played “Lying Ass Bitch” when Michele Bachman came onto the stage of the Jimmy Fallon show. He sort of appologised with a tweet, but the band leader didn’t.

    Rutherford I think you protest too much about Michele Malkin. I think you have a secret crush on her. Heh heh!

    Noah is winning the argument about OWS because more facts are on his side. I don’t think anyone could defend OWS better than you do, though. That is a complement.

  • 847. PFesser  |  June 22, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    Well, they just played Brahm’s Lullaby on the overhead paging system, signifying another birth in our hospital.

    Sigh…that’s another one for me to raise.

  • 848. dead rabbit  |  June 22, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    Come on dude. The American Nazi Party showed up to support OWS. But the Tea Party was racist because a few loons held signs mocking the ethnicity of the most powerful man on Earth? The antisemetic bull shit found at OWS was legendary. Still, neither movements should blamed for being racist. But one was a laughing stock with an epic amount of horrible crimes committed. One couldn’t articulate what they were pissed about or who they were pissed at. If you had no other choice then to let a random Tea Party or OWS demonstrator to baby sit your daughter for a week which would you chose?

  • 849. El Tigre  |  June 22, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    “Tigre, watch the City Slickers clip that Thor posted and then tell me why you’re confused.”

    I was not confused by anything other than the role you selected for yourself. I just didn’t know how to make a “sarcastic shrug” smiley.

  • 850. El Tigre  |  June 22, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    “The party of institutional racism, deviancy and debauchery. Long live the gay movement and Larry Flynt, hey?”

    Disrespecting a former president? Must be becuase he’s black. . . err. . . not a president???

  • 851. nagic  |  June 22, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    Just picked up Michael Saves book on the Fast & the Furious called “Trickle Down Tyranny” So far a great read. I believe this will lead to the impeachment of Obama from what I have read so far. His use of Executive Privileged by default implicates his involvement as he cannot claim the privileged unless he is directly involved.

  • 852. El Tigre  |  June 22, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    Nagic, the libs say that F&F was a Bush program.

  • 853. Rutherford  |  June 22, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    No Tigre, the libs tell the truth. From the little I’ve read so far, F&F was a Bush program redux. The dumbasses didn’t figure out it was a bad idea the first time around and decided to do it again.

    Since it would take me probably another week to research this deeply enough to satisfy myself, I’m gonna write a post later today taking a middle ground position that probably asks more questions than it has answers.

  • 854. Rutherford  |  June 22, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    Oh and Tigre, unless I read Thor wrong, I would be Billy Crystal because he’s trying to explain a concept to an idiot. THAT clear enough for you?

  • 855. nagic  |  June 22, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    If it was a Bush program then Obama would not be able, and would not need, to exercise EP.

  • 856. Rutherford  |  June 22, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    Tex, a few corrections. Somehow you seem to be implying that I can “bully” Noah while you “bully” me. If you haven’t figured it out yet, I’m not afraid of you in any way shape or form. I know the tender places that only a bastard would aim at and I choose not to. Your venom comes from your natural nastiness when attacked. Noah’s venom is that of a whiner who has been under attack from misandrists for the past X number of months or years. You can be vile. He can be not much more than pissy. (Only an M&H graduate, well versed in their methods could call another man a bitch.) You get nasty with self confidence and a conviction of being right. He gets nasty as though somehow the world owes him an explanation for why his views might not be right.

    We play rough here … I get that .. but most of us come here with at least a touch of levity and good will toward man. Noah came here with a chip on his shoulder from day 1. He was disappointed that I wasn’t the mythical liberal that I could never have been in the first place. There was no way I was going to meet his “test”. He hates libs … I believe because he’s been hurt by them … that’s just my guess.

    Bottom line, Noah’s tone is pure Fat Grannies, just with a different ideology. The fact that you and Rabbit don’t see that shows me you favor ideology over any kind of personal loyalty. Consider me educated.

    P.S. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again … compare tone and content of Pfesser and James to Noah. The first two act like a couple of guys glad to be out of Fat Grannies and having a good time here. The third brought all his baggage with him and is fighting M&H battles here. This ain’t M&H.

  • 857. Rutherford  |  June 22, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    If it was a Bush program then Obama would not be able, and would not need, to exercise EP.

    Let’s try again. I did not say it was a Bush program. I said it was a redux of a Bush program. Had the DOJ under Obama had any sense they would have nixed ATF giving Wide Receiver another try. Instead it happened and went much worse than the first time. The idea was bad from the get-go.

  • 858. Rutherford  |  June 22, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    Muffy, please stack up Bill Maher’s million against Foster Fries multi-millions …. remember Foster — a good old fashioned method of contraception is to squeeze an aspirin between your legs.

    Frankly, I’m a bit surprised to see you pile on. Tex made an outrageous ridiculous statement and I, at worst, countered with an equally ridiculous statement. Where’s your slap on the wrist for Tex? You’re usually not that blatantly partisan.

  • 859. Rutherford  |  June 22, 2012 at 2:48 pm

    Alfie, see 857 for further explanation of my comment to Tex. Both parties attract undesirables and to be fair … liberals attract “anti-white racists”.

  • 860. El Tigre  |  June 22, 2012 at 2:49 pm

    “Oh and Tigre, unless I read Thor wrong, I would be Billy Crystal because he’s trying to explain a concept to an idiot. THAT clear enough for you?”

    No shit?

    Lighten up.

    (consider me Bruno Kirby)

  • 861. nagic  |  June 22, 2012 at 2:56 pm

    You guys here on Obama’s website that he is asking people to forgo gifts for weddings, birthdays..ect and instead make a donation to his campaign? LMAO I am not even joking.

  • 862. El Tigre  |  June 22, 2012 at 2:56 pm

    “If it was a Bush program then Obama would not be able, and would not need, to exercise EP.”

    I know. The sarcasm meter is broken here today.

    Although the Obama defenders should know better, it’s always the cover up.

    You can’t blame Bush for this.

  • 863. nagic  |  June 22, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    He hates libs

    This tells me you are an ignorant idiot that hasnt been paying attention or you are deathly scare of me and it was a comment out of fear.

  • 864. PFesser  |  June 22, 2012 at 3:36 pm

    R – I don’t want to get into the thing with you and nagic/noah, but in a general way, here’s how I see it: I want everybody whom I argue with to consider me as an honest, honorable man and, if my view is wrong, it is because I am misinformed, not because I am wrongly motivated, crooked or evil.

    I can’t ask that kind of consideration of anybody else unless I am willing to give the same. I won’t say that sometimes I don’t just bloody lose it, because I do, but I try to make that damned rare.

    I also believe that when I am in another man’s house I need to tone down my rhetoric toward the man who is providing me hospitality, even if we are on dead opposite sides of an argument.

    Just that simple.

  • 865. nagic  |  June 22, 2012 at 3:51 pm

    PF.
    Paragraph 1 Agree 100%

    Paragraph 2 I do ask, and thus my problem with Rutherford, for the same honesty in return. I will not get anyone elected. Rutherford will not get any elected. So there is no reason not to be absolutely honest.

    Paragraph 3, You are probably right. My problem with it is it is not returned. I also think a “host” looses some of that protection he enjoys as a black man and a host when he chooses to be anything less than upfront and honest.

    I will say I apologize for my profanity and personal comments AT Rutherford. I will try and do better, but I will probably not be successful. I have no intention of being anything less than brutal when I see Rutherford doing things like the “only” incident. It is disrespectful and insulting to me and to anyone reading this blog to think we are stupid enough to fall for such an obvious intellectually dishonest tactic.

  • 866. Tex Taylor  |  June 22, 2012 at 3:58 pm

    If you haven’t figured it out yet, I’m not afraid of you in any way shape or form. I know the tender places that only a bastard would aim at and I choose not to.

    :lol: It’s amazing what you can read into my screed when you’re frustrated as hell. Did I insinuate you were scared of me? Hell man. You’ve got my personal name, address, and about anything else short of my credit card numbers. And I’ve got yours. If we were scared of each other, I doubt I we would shared that three years ago. But don’t threaten me about where you might go. I’m loaded for bear if you ever start to pull that shit.

    I don’t do it with you like I do with Thor because deep down, you’re not asshole and you have a modicum of respect from me because you’re so damn tolerant, not to mention pretty funny. I consider you a friend – of sorts. Now calm down and gather yourself.

    I was just pointing out since Nagic hit the scene here, you’ve treated Nagic like Elric. Just like you scolded me for scalding Thor and being a bastard, I’m telling you that you’re now doing the same.

    I’m badgering you like I always do. You made a profoundly stupid analogy that was patently untrue, and I called you on it with several examples. Good Lawd, the entire Democratic paradigm is based on egregious charges of racism, class warfare and tribalism. You might as well call Putin a man of the people.

    ———–

    Did you not notice in this very thread I’ve already corrected Thor’s bullshit about F&F being anything like Operation Wide Receiver? For one small little nugget – the Mexican gov’t approved the latter and helped coordinate it. Face it – Obama is a corrupted SOB.

    You need to detach yourself from his coattails, quit treating like you personally lost, and admit you f*cked up – you bought into the horseshit. You’re treating Obama like these sad sacks do whose football team loses and they go to pieces.

    Obama provided you the illusion of your idea of a perfect candidate, and he has been an abject failure in every regard. That is no reflection on you.

  • 867. muffy  |  June 22, 2012 at 4:06 pm

    OK Rutherford, I’ll stop.
    ~
    “Since it would take me probably another week to research this deeply enough to satisfy myself, I’m gonna write a post later today taking a middle ground position that probably asks more questions than it has answers.”

    I liked this -

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn

  • 868. Rutherford  |  June 22, 2012 at 4:06 pm

    PF I appreciate your thoughts. I do wonder though how you feel about Noah calling you a little bitch in 788? He thought he was calling me out not realizing it was you who commented on the lack of bathrooms at OWS rallies in 786. You know him better than I. Is that par for the course?

  • 869. muffy  |  June 22, 2012 at 4:09 pm

    Welp, I just noticed that Jennifer wrote a column after the one I was referring to in #866. Her previous column “Why defend Obama’s abuse of executive privilege?” was the one I was referring to.

  • 870. Rutherford  |  June 22, 2012 at 4:10 pm

    or you are deathly scare of me and it was a comment out of fear.

    Oooooo, where is Dick the Homicidal Clown when I need him. He was my enforcer back in the day. :-)

  • 871. Tex Taylor  |  June 22, 2012 at 4:14 pm

    OH, by the way Lefties. I think it same to assume that Obama was, has been, and will probably always be a LIAR. THAT’S RIGHT. Liar.

    Unless of course, you’re going to dispute David Maraniss and Ben Smith, left wing hacks, for now crying because they was forced to correct Obama’s bullshit life story in Dreams of My Father….

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/the-real-story-of-barack-obama

  • 872. dead rabbit  |  June 22, 2012 at 4:19 pm

    “or you are deathly scare of me and it was a comment out of fear.”

    That did deserve a Ooooo……I’ll give you that one, R.

  • 873. nagic  |  June 22, 2012 at 4:20 pm

    851
    The Fast and the Furious program had its beginnings at the very end of the Bush administration in cooperation with the Mexican government. Bush and the Mexican government had safety measures in place and during Obama’s administration those measures were removed. The ATF warned the Obama administration that this was a bad idea and their warnings went unheeded. All of the bad things that transpired happened during the Obama administration.

  • 874. muffy  |  June 22, 2012 at 4:25 pm

    The real incumbant. The other one is Barack.

    http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/7753/whhousevaleriejarrett20.jpg

  • 875. Tex Taylor  |  June 22, 2012 at 4:39 pm

    This Valerie Jarrett is stinkin’ rotten egg. Real rotten. And she’s exactly why I dislike Michelle Antoinette too. You read Michelle Obama’s history, and you get a real idea of just how rotten this whole pack of race hustling scum really is. For a quick review that will turn your stomach, google the man who took Shelly’s job when she left her little hospital gig. Transparently corrupt as hell and Obama’s personal dirty linen carrier.

    It’s about time these shyster were vetted. I’ve never seen a country so hoodwinked by a complicit, pathetic press as I did in 2008. As am addendum, anybody that didn’t think Barack Obama sat in Jeremiah Wright’s pews for 20 years and didn’t clap along to that anti-white, anti-American flack is a fool too. I’d like to think Obama’s presence was simply political expediency and self servitude. But there is no way in hell he wasn’t tacitly a part of that American hating, white hating screed.

    Rutherford thinks it’s strictly because I am conservative and basically Republican, that I loathe these people. It goes far deeper than having political differences.

    These are lying thieves and thugs running this country now, who are busily radically attempting to transform it into a graven image of what it was intended.

  • 876. dead rabbit  |  June 22, 2012 at 4:40 pm

    Pfessor, with all due respect, when you first arrived here you tried to be as provacative as humamly possible. I remember your first rants here revolved around the genetic disposition of black people being stupid and more prone to violence. I remember thinking this dude is trying to test PC waters more then anything else. Your guns might have had fancy ivory on them, but they were blazing just like Noah’s.

  • 877. dead rabbit  |  June 22, 2012 at 4:50 pm

    Got a birthday, anniversary, or wedding coming up?Let your friends know how important this election is to you—register with Obama 2012, and ask for a donation in lieu of a gift. It’s a great way to support the President on your big day. Plus, it’s a gift that we can all appreciate—and goes a lot further than a gravy bowl.Setting up and sharing your registry page is easy—so get started today.

    How fucking bizarre. Who politizizes a wedding gift? What planet are some of these Obama rubes from?

  • 878. Rutherford  |  June 22, 2012 at 5:06 pm

    I also think a “host” looses some of that protection he enjoys as a black man

    Huh? Again you can be forgiven for this comment since you’re new here. I’d love for someone here to go through the hundreds of comments posted over the past few years and count the number of afro-critical comments. If that’s enjoying protection as a black man, I’d hate to see what being unprotected looks like. :-)

  • 879. Tex Taylor  |  June 22, 2012 at 5:08 pm

    R.L. – how long you going to be party to these bizarre flakes? Pandering for wedding money? What more does it take than something like this, in conjunction to realize you’re party to Fat Grannies’ crowd and other assorted pond scum, to get you to seriously reflect on exactly what it is that you’re supporting?

    The Rabbit is right, man.

    Are you not recognizing how horrible tactless something like this is? How many balanced people do you honestly know that wouldn’t find this the absolute height of crassness? This is so bad, it has to be parody.

    I will be absolutely honest with you – strictly truth. If Mitt Romney or any of his staff ever pulled a stunt like this, and it was not immediately retracted by Mitt Romney himself, there is no way I would vote to put someone of that low character to place in the highest office.

    Bizarre doesn’t even describe this pandering.

  • 881. Rutherford  |  June 22, 2012 at 5:11 pm

    you’ve treated Nagic like Elric.

    Ahhh you noticed that did you? :-)

    I’ll say this for Noah. While it is clear that he pisses me off to my very core, he does not engage in the link diarrhea of our dear departed Elric. Noah’s signal to noise ratio is 10 times better than Elric on his best day. Plus Noah is more well rounded. Elric was a one-note Islamaphobe.

  • 882. Tex Taylor  |  June 22, 2012 at 5:17 pm

    You thought I was just b.s.ing you when I called many of your party Dear Leader type, Rutherford? Good grief.

    Honestly, what else would you call an approval of this besides megalomania?

    This is worse than fainting in front of Styrofoam columns, or believing Obama will pay for your rent and gas. :lol: :lol:

  • 883. Rutherford  |  June 22, 2012 at 5:20 pm

    Muffy, were you pointing me toward the Rubin editorial on Obama’s executive privilege? If so, I agree that it was good and something I would never have thought of. With a possible Romney presidency looming, it is in the best interests of Democratic congress critters to maintain their subpoena rights.

  • 884. Tex Taylor  |  June 22, 2012 at 5:22 pm

    This request is for real – it’s on Obama Biden’s website. :twisted: This President really has jumped the shark.

    http://www.barackobama.com/

  • 885. Tex Taylor  |  June 22, 2012 at 5:24 pm

    Hey, I’ve got another Obama campaign idea! Cremate Granny and spare the casket! Sends the proceeds to Barack…

    WOW! I never dreamed how tawdry this sap and his buffoon for a V.P. could be. :lol:

  • 886. Rutherford  |  June 22, 2012 at 5:35 pm

    Hey Tex you realize the article you posted says Obama lied about trying cocaine. What a dilemma. On the one hand he’s the liar you claim he is but he ain’t the cokehead you wanted him to be. Ah the injustice of it all!

  • 887. Rutherford  |  June 22, 2012 at 5:46 pm

    For the record, I have lately found Obama’s money raising techniques with the unwashed to be very bizarre. This “donation in lieu of a gift” idea is only the most outrageous. I’ve always gotten a queasy feeling about a 15 dollar donation getting you into a dinner lottery with the POTUS. Every POTUS needs to avoid the smell of celebrity.

  • 888. Rutherford  |  June 22, 2012 at 5:50 pm

    BTW, I would never ask friends and family to donate to Obama instead of giving me the money. Two reasons: political donations are a very private matter so the request is rude at its core. Second, I’m a selfish bastard and I want my gift money! :-)

  • 889. Rutherford  |  June 22, 2012 at 5:52 pm

    “Forgo that nose job. You look great just the way you are. Send the money instead to Obama for America!”

  • 890. Alfie  |  June 22, 2012 at 8:15 pm

    A question to the interested parties with a small backgrounder first.
    For me F&F seemed like the bureaucracy of ATF going full ahead stupid with full knowledge of Op WR. Then I started wondering how much of F&F was actually tied to anti-gun sentiment,like the debunked line from Hillary about the % of guns in Mexico coming from the states.
    So the question….Is it govt. agency hijinks or something a little darker coming from higher up?

  • 891. El Tigre  |  June 22, 2012 at 9:08 pm

    It would be a remarkable coincidence Alfie.

    It would also explain the secrecy and weirdness.

    I fear it’s dark.

  • 892. dead rabbit  |  June 22, 2012 at 9:24 pm

    Noah, Rutherford doesn’t ever play the race card when it comes to himself. In fact, he doesn’t play the handicap card either, even though he’s all twisted up. Now, he will play the race card on behalf of someone else if MSNBC calls for it. But never himself. Rutherford approaches politics like many do sports. He supports Team Obama. It’s pathetic. However, he doesn’t hide behind anything while he roots roots roots for the home team.