Anger I Can Understand

A couple of years ago CNBC’s Rick Santelli (see section in my article titled The End of Empathy) proved what a prick he can be by ranting about how he and his rich friends were tired of pulling the weight of moochers and deadbeats. Actually, Rick claimed to make his case for the common man which only led pundits to laugh at the irony of his rant coming from the floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange.

Fast forward to August 9, 2011 and another CNBC veteran, Dylan Ratigan goes postal on live TV as his frustration with our broken system reaches its limit. Unlike Santelli’s anger (which aligned perfectly with the then nascent Tea Party movement) Ratigan’s anger is non-partisan and unconcerned with preserving the status quo of keeping the rich wealthy.

I completely identify with Ratigan’s rage. We have a dysfunctional Congress, one side in denial about the hard decisions that must be made to restore our fiscal health and the other side using their call for sound fiscal policy as a weapon to defeat their political opponents, including the President, rather than to really help our nation. The President himself does not emerge from this blameless either. Obama’s “leading from behind” is getting very old. He is not showing bold leadership by any stretch of the imagination.

While conservative pundits like Rush Limbaugh delight at the latest disasters, using them to justify their criticism of liberalism in general and Obama in particular, some liberal media folks are demanding specific action, almost in a desperate attempt to save Obama’s presidency. Most notably, MSNBC’s Chris Matthews has become red in the face demanding that the President immediately launch a jobs program that puts people to work now.

The ship is headed toward an iceberg and responsible folks in the media are silent no longer. The love affair with the President is over. Folks are mad as hell and they’re shaking their fists at Obama to DO SOMETHING. This is an anger that I can understand.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

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475 thoughts on “Anger I Can Understand

  1. Get the hell out of private enterprise’s way, and stop punishing success. That would be change we could ALL believe in, because it would work.

    Stealing money from the private sector to “create” a government job is woefully inefficient, and foolish as it can only persist for as long as we are all willing and able to pay.

    Government owes no one a living, and nor do the taxpayers.

  2. R, in all seriousness, I honestly don’t know where you stand on any of this. Coupled with your last “lay blame” post, this sounds like some kind of catharsis — “sounds like” (only in the sense that you’ve given yourself permission to say that the Dems are in denial and Obama shares fault).

    Perhaps I’m wrong, but have your views changed, and if so why? Although I fear that it’s because Ratigan or some other MSNBC agitator, enquiring minds want to know. Really.

  3. How long after stepping on all those virtual toes do you think Radigan be able to keep his day job?

    Huck @ 1, Politics, party, and politicians in NO WAY HELP our nation. That is the muck and mire we can’t seem to free our mechanisms from.

    BiW @ 2, “Government owes no one a living, nor do the taxpayers” is an okay sound bite, but fails as a valid statement. Citizens are taxed to support a government established to protect them and their interests. In that way it “owes” us all a living. It is a beast of our own design. Plenty of people earn a “wage” from it. Whether it supports non-contributing entities or not is entirely by design. Regardless, it owes its entire existence to those who establish and maintain it.

    And of course, the tired old mantra: Privatize it all. Back off and allow the amoral corporates to have their way with whatever resources are left from which to manage and profit. Yeah, that’s worked out equitably so far. There are still a handful of items that haven’t earned that exclusive “made in China” sticker. :roll: Nothing touts American exceptionalism more than waving those stars and stripes bearing that same “quality of assurance” sticker.

    It’s the pee party’s fault. Between the pissing contests, package size comparison, and porking prowess, we’re a poor and pitiful people.

  4. “Citizens are taxed to support a government established to protect them and their interests.”

    Yep. That’s government.

    But you are forgetting 1 important facet in your statement…

    It’s politics that decides what your interests are and how your tax money will be spent to protect them.

    In a democracy, government and politics is a package deal. Always has been and always will be.

  5. And what about citizens who aren’t taxed?

    They don’t support the government, but it is still expected to protect them?

    Please come over to my small town and explain that to our local fire station. The county has now drawn a line in our town. And the fire department will only roll if you are on a certain side of it.

    If you are on the other side of the line, you have to pay a new fee to guarantee the fire department shows up.

    Guess which side I’m on…..

  6. So this is sorely off topic but oh well….

    I am hoping Tex can clear up something that has me fairly concerned.

    I keep hearing about how Bachmann and Perry are “evangelical” Christians.

    I’m going to go ahead and admit that I really don’t know what that means. So in my ignorance, I use what tools I have. Thinking that I know that “evangelize” means to go around and spread the word of God, I am left to assume that evangelic Christians are big on spreading the word.

    Now I have no problem if anyone is religious and allows their religion to dictate their own life. And I also have no problems if people wear their religions on their sleeve for all to see.

    But I will no way go for a president who tries to sway me to any religion or wants me to allow their religion to dictate my life. Which is what I am afraid Bachmann or Perry would try to do.

    Can someone help me out with “evangelicals”? Thanks in advance.

  7. I don’t think he’s going to be preaching from the mount, but he’s not afaid of what he believes.

    Either way, he’s better then Romney…

  8. G, I appreciate the effort, but I didn’t find that article at all helpful, as it did not even include the words “evangelic” or “Christian.”

    I am not asking what Rick Perry stands for. I can read his eventual campaign website for that. I am asking what “Evangelical Christian” means to those who claim to be that…or at least what it means to Tex (who may or may not consider himself evangelical).

    How people identify themselves is important. And I find it glaring that, while all of the candidates might claim to be people of faith, only 2 of them seem to be considered “evangelical Christians.”

  9. Huck –

    Disclaimer: Leah Burton is a friend of mine and probably the leader of the anti-dominionist movement in America. But here is her take on Perry and his “Day of Prayer.”

    http://godsownparty.com/blog/2011/08/perrys-response-a-disturbing-altar-cult/

    If you have time, click on the “seven mountains” link. If it doesn’t scare hell out of you, well it should.

    Fortunately the Internet allows folks like Leah and me to expose this frightening movement to bright sunlight and I don’t think they will go very far. We will NOT let these people build up their strength hidden in the darkness and suddenly spring upon the American public in full force, like Nazis. If it means campaigning for Barack Obama (shudder), then that is what it will take. The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake. (Actually, that’s not true. In Iran they *currently* hang them from construction equipment. Different part of the planet; same mindset. Not here. Never. Never.)

  10. I’ll give it a fair look, PM. But I am really looking for an answer to my specific question so that I can draw my own conclusions. I’m not really interested in the conclusions of others.

  11. Tex, you out burying your cash in mason jars? Or did R take you up on your tryst. . .er. . . man-cation in St. Louis?

  12. Huck –

    Two wrongs don’t make a right, but sometime read about Bataan and Nanking. Messed up shit is right. Internment is a bad, bad thing and below us, but catching babies on your bayonet and decapitating prisoners who fall by the wayside puts some of the WWII excesses by the US in perspective, IMHO.

  13. Huck, Tex defines himself as an Evangelical, so when he returns he will likely be the best to define the term for you. I think he’s in process of getting his daughter to college this week. Evangelicals push repentance and salvation as the primary gospel message. Baptists probably make up the largest portion of Evangelicals.

    In and of itself, it is just as harmless/harmful as any other denomination or sect. However, the propensity to force their ideology on others and govern from OT biblical principles is what sets some of them apart. That and their unyielding support for anything Israel wants to do. They have the false notion we are to support the nation of Israel wholly, no matter what good or evil they do. This is based on false interpretations and primarily stem from the Scofield Reference Bible that they agree with and support.

  14. “Yes, but these were American citizens….”

    Yep, but I think the “these were human beings” trumps that.

  15. “Yep, but I think the “these were human beings” trumps that.”

    Nice try but that wasn’t at all my point.

    PM is referring to actions done to the Chinese by the Japanese.

    I am referring to actions done to Americans by Americans.

    Oranges don’t trump apples.

  16. Sorry, didn’t mean to be so terse. It just seems to me that any human should have burned into his brain that you do not commit the kind of atrocities that were de rigueur for the Japs – simply because even in wartime, there are levels below which you Do_Not_Sink. Yes you are trying to kill enemy combatants, but you just do not do the things the Japs did.

    Was it a Bad Thing to imprison American citizens? You betcha. But they survived the experience, unlike the Japanese victims.

    I absolutely do not want to get into the “Tex” thing of saying, “Yeah, well what about what HE did?!” because I think that is a bogus argument. But I think there were some really bad things done in that war and internment of American citizens during a time when the very survival of Western civilization was in question is far from the worst.

  17. “It just seems to me that any human should have burned into his brain that you do not commit the kind of atrocities that were de rigueur for the Japs – simply because even in wartime, there are levels below which you Do_Not_Sink.”

    But that is exactly what you and PM seem to be doing in reverse. You both admit internment was wrong, but feel the need to compare it to other atrocities.

    So what if the Japanese did worse. Does that mean we ignore what I am talking about? Should we ignore Bataan and Nanking because more Jews were murdered by the Nazis?

  18. No, I am suggesting two things: firstly, the very first rule of being a historian is that you do not judge historical figures by contemporary standards – they are judged by *their* contemporary standards. Neither you or I know the kind of fear that seized the country during that time nor will we ever, so gnashing your teeth over the internments may or may not be appropriate. By the standards of that time interment may have seemed reasonable, so that is arguable. But by Any standards of Any time, easily verifiable historically, the things done as a matter of course by the Japs during WWII were beneath contempt.

    Secondly, there are levels of bad, not just “bad” and “good.” I am in no way justifying any kind of “bad,” just saying that if one wants to get his bowels in an uproar, an order of priority might be appropriate, and to my eye the internments would not be at the top.

  19. “…defeat their political opponents, including the President, rather than to really help our nation.”

    Those things do help our nation.

    :lol: :lol: :lol:

    I was going to critique this like I always do, then I read the very first comment and while laughing out loud thought “I can’t do any better or be more succinct than that.” That was good Huck.

  20. Huck, longer than you wanted. Skip it if you wish, but it is the best I can do without writing a “sermon.”

    I do consider myself an Evangelical Christian (that ought to cost Perry a few votes in and of itself) and its definition is pretty simple. I don’t know if I necessarily agree with Poolman’s statement about mostly Baptists, but he is correct Southern Baptists do consider themselves Evangelicals. There are over 50MM in the U.S. who would call themselves Evangelicals.

    Some people would disagree, perhaps Poolman, but I consider charismatics (Pfesser’s main beef I believe) a different breed of cat than Evangelicals. Some charismatics I consider pathetic pandering charlatans, TV hobnobs to enrich themselves, and buffoons.

    There are Evangelical Catholics, Presbyterians, Methodists, Episcopalians, Lutherans, and non denominational churches of all flavors.

    To answer your question Huck, I would say someone calling themselves an Evangelical Christian bases his or her message from this scripture (there are others) called The Great Commission:

    Matthew 28:16-20

    Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When they saw Jesus, they worshiped Him; but some doubted. Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

    An Evangelical Christian would consider this commission the end of a Gospel and the beginning of faith in action for all Christians – spreading the good news.

    I would consider perhaps the most famous Evangelical of our time to be Billy Graham if you want an example. Others I consider mentors are Adrian Rogers, Chuck Swindoll, John MacArthur, William Lane Craig, R.C. Sprowl, Jack Graham, David Jeremiah, and Philip Yancey (some of these are dead).

    Though I have never seen BIC call himself an Evangelical, he certainly reads like one. BIC and I sometimes disagree with the process of politic, but I have never once read anything I didn’t 100% concur with BIC respect to biblical interpretation and his message. I certainly consider BIC a brother in Christ.

    And since I find BIC a far more capable and gifted author than I am, he might be better to write a definition, assuming I am correct in my defining him.

  21. “What percentage of Japanese in camps were actually citizens?”

    I don’t recall specific numbers but they came in various classifications. Some were citizens who were once Japanese citizens that had gained US citizenship. Some of those types had dual citizenship, some were straight US citizens. Those people had kids. Their kids, under the constitution, were born US citizens.

    “just saying that if one wants to get his bowels in an uproar, an order of priority might be appropriate, and to my eye the internments would not be at the top.”

    I’m not sure if pointing out that something is “some messed up shit” classifies as getting one’s “bowels in an uproar.” But I will be sure to pass along to the author of the book I am reading that she should have worried more about what the Japanese were doing to others during the war than what we were doing to our own, because that is what is really important.

    Tex, I think I understand and I appreciate the effort.

  22. “But I will be sure to pass along to the author of the book I am reading that she should have worried more about what the Japanese were doing to others during the war than what we were doing to our own, because that is what is really important.”-Hucking

    I actually think Pfessor makes valid points.

    For starters, Japan WAS insanely evil, sucker punched us and started an existential war. These realities are a necessary back drop to put the camps into context (along with many other things).

    Can you imagine if we lost to those animals? I can’t say I blame us from slightly veering off the course.

    I wonder how many in the camp were, in fact, enemy agents?

    How were they treated in camp?

    If my memory serves me right, wasn’t the most decorated unit in WW2 a Japanese American unit which fought the Nazis?

  23. HEY!

    I see the union goons in Wisconsin bit the bullet, despite pulling out all the stops, raising the dead, stuffing the box. Well, that’s a damn shame. :grin:

    You can tell I’ve been out of the loop for three days. Didn’t even read a newspaper. Shot the bull with some 80 year old guys in an Einstein bagelry that were funnier than hell about the state of the world. You think I’m cynical? I’m a mere piker compared to these hall of fame superstars. You should have heard their take on “The One.” My love dragged me off by the ear when she showed up wondering where I had went. I make a pretty good, old fart.

    I see Barack’s stock market has vacillated about a 1,000 points while I’ve been gone. Maybe I owe Rutherford an apology – it is a crap shoot. What a crock!

    Dang, I’m tired. Went to a beautiful “white coat” ceremony for my oldest daughter. Really nice.

    She hooked up with some rich Texas daughter and has a townhouse that makes are home look like public housing. A bunch of the NFL players live in the complex. I told her to keep both dead bolts locked.

  24. sucker punched us

    You DO realize that was a timing error, correct?

    They never intended to give us a lot of notice, but notice was intended. And it wasn’t really a complete surprise to the American military. A lot of them wonder when and where the attack would come, not if.

    That said, yes, they were brutal vicious motherfuckers.
    My grandfather had freinds at Battaan. He never forgot…or forgave.

  25. You guys remember old Graychin telling us when we were debating the “excellence” of BongoCare and asking if we wanted 1/6 of the economy to resemble the Post Office?

    About the same time Old Gray was scolding me for my impracticality?

    When Graychin came to the P.O.’s defense as a most excellent entity, and the very proof our all knowing, all seeing, all capable gov’t was where it was at. Tigre and I gave the man a hard time for weeks after before he exploded.

    Postal Service proposes cutting 120,000 jobs, pulling out of health-care plan :lol: :lol:

    No wonder that pragmatic lumberjack ran off… :twisted:

  26. “I wonder how many in the camp were, in fact, enemy agents? ”

    What about how many weren’t?

    “How were they treated in camp?”

    To use your words…who gives a flying fuck? They were put there illegally.

    I am fairly shocked that I am even having to debate this. American citizens were driven from their homes and imprisoned without due process based solely on their race.

    Does it compare to what the Japanese did to other people? Of course not. And you don’t see me launching a big fight in favor of restitution or anything like that. But I don’t think that means it should be excused away or not talked about. It’s a black mark in American history that deserves to have light shown upon it.

  27. “If my memory serves me right, wasn’t the most decorated unit in WW2 a Japanese American unit which fought the Nazis?”

    I am proofreading mainly for grammar and flow so I am not getting much retention. But it seems this was mainly along the West Coast. Japanese Americans that lived in more inland areas were not affected, I don’t think.

  28. I am fairly shocked that I am even having to debate this.
    Well that is perhaps because you are over intellectualizing it all. Given racism and general fear internment was almost logical. I’d ask you to remember a key point in studying history. Looking back always allows one to be corrupted/biased by ones views TODAY.
    Revisionist theory and literature like analysis of history is an absolute sin.

  29. This wiki article seems to have a lot of information. Some of the highlights…

    “approximately 110,000 Japanese Americans and Japanese who lived along the Pacific coast of the United States”

    “Of those interned, 62% were American citizens”

    “In 1988, Congress passed and President Ronald Reagan signed legislation which apologized for the internment on behalf of the U.S. government. The legislation said that government actions were based on “race prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership””

    “The 442nd Regimental Combat Team, which was composed primarily of Japanese Americans, served with uncommon distinction in the European theatre of World War II. Many of the US soldiers serving in the unit had their families interned at home while they fought abroad.”

    I’m done with this one. Thanks for the discussion, all.

  30. I am not applying revisionist analysis. It was just as fucked up 60 years ago as it would be today. And your racism defense doesn’t sell, either. That there were Japanese American combat units destroys that.

    Yes, there was a general fear. That is the ENTIRE point. We did stupid, fucked up shit out of fear.

    I never said I didn’t understand the motivation. I just think the action was wrong. I suspect had it happened to any of you, you’d agree.

    And this time I am done!

  31. It was fucked and should be documented. It just was a very understandable fuck up.

    I didn’t know the Japanese intended to give us notice.

    I remember some shit about the two Jap ambassadors being pissed about the timing.

    I never taught American history, not that its an excuse.

    I tell camp fire stories about the Punic Wars and Alexander the Great for a living.

    Weird job.

    I’m dreading going back only because I spend all day with my little man (who turns two, soon).

    Having all summer off with your son is awesome. One day, hopefully when I’m old, Ill be thinking of these times on my death bed and thanking God for the life he gave me.

    Don’t go tell the Tea Party but I’d keep doing this job minus benefits and pension.

    Fuck with summer and I’m gone.

  32. “It was fucked and should be documented. It just was a very understandable fuck up.”

    I think I can live with that assessment.

    “I tell camp fire stories about the Punic Wars and Alexander the Great for a living.”

    Just yesterday I mentioned to a friend how much I’d love to teach World History/Civilizations to 1500. So many incredible stories. What fun that must be.

  33. So I guess today Obama got on TV again blaming others for the screwed up economy. This time it was the partisans in congress. I just love how he is now trying to position himself as a post-partisan president after previously uttering the words “I won.” Or maybe he simply made another mistake when he said that.

    I was just about to ask how he explains the economy between 2008 and 2010 when democrats had the power to do whatever they wanted but then I remembered…that was Bush’s fault.

    He also mentioned something up coming up with proposals in the coming weeks. Why, after 3 years, we still have to wait for coming weeks, I have no idea. Maybe its so he can catch some well-earned rest in Martha’s Vinyard.

    Isn’t there a clinical name for a person that blames everything on everyone else?

    Obama’s excuses crack me up…

    I couldn’t fix the economy because I was too stupid to figure out how bad it was.

    I couldn’t fix the economy because an insignificant fringe faction of the government stopped me.

    “Shovel-ready wasn’t as shovel-ready as we expected”

    and..

    I didn’t know what I was talking about back then but I do now.

    And this man wants another term?

  34. “I’m dreading going back only because I spend all day with my little man (who turns two, soon).

    Having all summer off with your son is awesome. One day, hopefully when I’m old, Ill be thinking of these times on my death bed and thanking God for the life he gave me. ”

    Suck the marrow out of it every minute – no second – you can. I remember sitting with my 3 year-old on the couch thinking that someday he would be gone and mourning over that day to come many years hence.

    It is here.

    I was very fortunate that I was able to take several years off and play with my young boys. They are now young men and I do not know what happened. I did some things, but it seems like I squandered a lot of time on myself that I could have been playing with them. No matter what you do it isn’t enough.

    Take pictures every day and be sure you have them protected somehow – backup online if they are digital. Try to go places with the kids. We went to the Oshkosh airshow together when they were about eight and ten and we camped out together for four days. I have those pictures on an electronic device that displays them one at a time and I look at it every day of my life.

    The best thing I did was keep a handwritten journal. I only had enough interesting stuff to write in it about once a month but it is beyond precious.

    Yep, I spent a lot of time with my sons all right; my only regret is that it wasn’t much, much more.

  35. Dang Pfesser,

    I just watched your recommendation of Rachel ‘Chaz’ Maddow’s show desperately trying to kill Rick Perry before he even starts his campaign.

    You and these insignificant hate monger bloggers up in Alaska you’ve teamed yourself with are as goofy and paranoid as those you believe you do battle.

    You personally have a much bigger worry close to home. Your own governor of Virginia, Bob McDonnellm is also an Evangelical and Catholic. :smile: You’re surrounded.

    I’m a pretty active and knowledgeable Christian, and other than John Hagee, I have never heard of any of these Apostolic “nuts” Rick Perry is supposedly affiliated. Not one.

    If all of our candidates are to be judged by those who attend their functions, then so be it. I will wait until you and Butch Maddow have chosen your most attractive candidate and play by the same rules. I assume that will be Obama.

    You godless types, those who are actively militant in their atheism, must really be desperate if that’s the best you got.

  36. Here’s that sun goddess the Jap emperor was enamored of. I’m sure of it.

    Dang, for such a screwed-up family the Johnstons surely produce some good-looking children! Great interview with Mercede coming out in the September issue of Playboy. I haven’t opened that mag in years, but you can bet I’ll buy that issue!

  37. I don’t really buy into the whole dominionist premise in the first place. The point of ANY religion is to get as many converts as possible, so to think that somehow, Christians who preach is any more evil or bad than Jews, Muslims or Buddhists is beyond me. Regardless, based on the volume dominionist commentary I see here, I thought this would be interesting food for thought…
    They call it worldview, I call it context. Its important and there is nothing wrong with context…

    The takeaway from Ryan Lizza’s hit piece on Michele Bachmann in the New Yorker is this: “Dominionist” is the new “Fundamentalist”—the preferred term of abuse, intended to arouse fear and contempt, and downgrade the status of targeted groups of people.

    Never mind that most of those people have never heard the term—including me. Bachmann told Lizza that a major influence on her thinking was my book Total Truth (“Bachmann told me [it] was a ‘wonderful’ book”), along with the work of Francis Schaeffer, whom I studied under.

    Lizza labeled the two of us Dominionists. Dozens of liberal websites have picked up the story and repeated the charge.

    I had to Google the term to discover whether there really is such a group.

    Yes, there is a little-known group of Christians who claim the term, though they are typically called Reconstructionists. Apparently it was sociologist Sara Diamond who expanded Dominionism into a general term of abuse, based on a passage in Genesis where God tells humans to exercise “dominion” over the earth.

    By that definition, anyone who respects Genesis as Scripture would be a Dominionist—including Jews and Catholics, as well as Evangelicals, Fundamentalists and Pentecostals. And not a few of the American Founders.

    Reductio ad absurdum. Or so you would think. But liberal writers have jumped on the label and are applying it to conservatives in just about all of the above groups, with a few secular conservatives thrown in.

    Journalist Stanley Kurtz calls this usage of the term “conspiratorial nonsense,” “political paranoia” and ” guilt by association.”

    If we’re looking for the real hermeneutical key to Michele Bachmann’s mind, surprisingly it’s right out in plain sight. It is a term that appears several times in Lizza’s piece, though he ignores it.

    The term is worldview.

    A major theme in my writings and Schaeffer’s is that Christianity is a worldview. That means it is not reducible to a set of privatized religious rituals and practices. Instead it offers a coherent, rationally consistent intellectual framework for all of life.

    Schaeffer spent most of his adult life in Europe, and his concept of worldview owes much to Dutch thinkers Abraham Kuyper and Herman Dooyeweerd. Kuyper was prime minister of the Netherlands in the early 20th century and founder of the Free University of Amsterdam. Dooyeweerd was a systematic philosopher who taught there.

    They adopted the concept of worldview from Continental philosophy. It is a translation of the German term Weltanschauung, which expresses the Hegelian notion that any given society shares a common outlook, a Zeitgeist or spirit of the age.

    The implication is that a society’s cultural artifacts—its laws, customs, morality, art, politics—all express that shared spirit or common outlook.

    For Kuyper and Dooyeweerd, this holistic concept of worldview did a nice job of capturing the creative impact that Christianity has had on Western culture through history, inspiring much of its art, literature, music, architecture, philosophy, and political thought.

    It was this creative impulse that Schaeffer hoped to revive in our own day.

    Lizza writes as though anyone who applies Christianity to all of life is a dangerous extremist. But that shows a failure to understand how worldviews work.

    Marxists offer a Marxist perspective on economics, politics, family, technology, and virtually every other discipline.

    The same is true of feminism and other isms. Even evolution: There’s a growth industry in books applying Darwinian categories to everything from politics (Darwinian Politics), to sexuality (The Evolution of Desire), to music (The Singing Neanderthals), to creativity (Origins of Genius: Darwinian Perspectives on Creativity), to literature (Madame Bovary’s Ovaries: A Darwinian Look at Literature).

    Read the rest here: http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=45467

  38. “I don’t really buy into the whole dominionist premise in the first place. The point of ANY religion is to get as many converts as possible, ”

    There is a big difference. Converts are fine and dandy. Mixing religion and politics, with the goal of changing a country from one of secular law to one of religious law is definitely not.

  39. “Isn’t there a clinical name for a person that blames everything on everyone else?”

    I think “democrat” fairly captures it. :lol:

  40. Jesus Christ, two hours!!! What a fucking joke…

    (TheDC) — Some Democratic members of the Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction, tasked with identifying $1.5 trillion in spending cuts, have become the subject of criticism, but their appointments were only finalized Thursday.
    Sen. Patty Murray of Washington, and Reps. James Clyburn of South Carolina and Xavier Becerra of California are already being targeted for circumstances that could compromise their abilities to negotiate.
    Becerra, for example, wasted no time before using his appointment as a fundraising tool for his own campaign.
    About two hours after House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi released Becerra’s name as one of her appointees, an invitation went out inviting Wall Street lobbyists to a $1,500 per-ticket event. The invitation highlighted Becerra’s membership on the exclusive committee.

  41. Mixing religion and politics, with the goal of changing a country from one of secular law to one of religious law is definitely not.

    Pfesser is quoting Levi Johnston’s fame whoring sister for insight over there at Helen’s pad to “destroy” Sarah Palin I guess – from PlayBoy, no less. :lol: I’m not making this up. You can’t make this up. Auntie Jean and Uncle Pfesser. Somehow, this will all be tied back to Rick Perry and all those Dominionists hiding behind every corner.

    ——–

    Since your ignoring me doctor after having your ass fairly ripped here, you would have really dropped a brick at my daughter’s white coat ceremony when these “secular” institutions dared to pray and invoked the name GOD. OMG!

    What would you have done? Set yourself on fire?

    For one second, I actually thought about you and laughed to myself, that somewhere out there in the world is a very confused, very twisted and very lost radiologist who would have had an M.I. at the thought.

    Do you steal the crucifixes from the wall in retaliation?

  42. “Isn’t there a clinical name for a person that blames everything on everyone else?”

    I think “democrat” fairly captures it.

    :lol:

  43. Though those Dominionists “radical Christians” are America’s supposed thought and speech police, real threats to freedom of speech go unmentioned. And last I looked, most college campuses were not bastions of Dominionists…. :shock: Quite a few militant atheists, though. :wink:

    A warning to college parents and grandparents

    Whether your own college experience was more like The Paper Chase or Animal House, you can be sure that today’s campuses are neither. Instead, your tuition and tax dollars are funding an ever-growing army of bureaucrats that police everything from free speech to dating. Administrators now outnumber faculty on our nation’s campuses, and even students’ innermost thoughts are subject to their oversight. Each year, the college experience gets closer to that of a TSA line at the airport — but one that you have to live in for four years.

    http://dailycaller.com/2011/08/11/a-warning-to-college-parents-and-grandparents/

  44. The fact that there’s any attention placed on the Johnstons or Palin’s children speaks volumes about those that seem to care. None of it good.

    PF, did you see the ass whooping R’s buddy Crazy Larry and Rolling Stone laid on Levi Johnston? Most impressive. Now that’s intelligent journalism!

    I heard they’re going after Snooki from Jersey Shore next. She said something unflattering about Palin’s wardrobe. :shock:

    Keep it classy, PF.

  45. This post ranks near the bottom of your collection. — Alfie

    Its getting awfully crowded there lately. — BiW

    To my two gifted blogger buddies, and don’t take this the wrong way, …

    F*CK YOU

    and have a pleasant day. :-)

  46. “PF, did you see the ass whooping R’s buddy Crazy Larry and Rolling Stone laid on Levi Johnston? Most impressive. Now that’s intelligent journalism! ”

    Yeah, Levi is pretty lame. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. First his daddy abandons the family and the mom is selling her pills to get money to eat on, then Levi takes a payoff from Klondike Kardashian to go away but just like his dad, doesn’t do anything to help the family with his new-found riches. I haven’t heard from him in a long time. I think he is hunting or something.

    He DOES know about firearms, though. And pussy. He boasted about bedding two high-school girls simultaneously when HE was in HS himself, and the girls have confirmed it so I’m told. But otherwise than being a good-looking kid, he has not much to recommend him. His sis is a ball of fire, though. Takes NO shit from the Palins or anybody else, has stuck with her mom through thick and thin. She can’t get a job in their hometown because merchants are afraid of the Palins and since her mom is on confinement because of her drug conviction, she can’t move. The Playboy gig should keep them going for a while. I hope so. Gryphen says she is a great human being. What a f*ked-up family and town, though…I still want to visit AK and take some bush-flying lessons with REAL pilots.

  47. Ummmm, R, per our previous email discussion…

    WEST ALLIS, Wis. (AP) – The investigation into 11 of the violent incidents on the opening night of the Wisconsin State Fair has resulted in the arrest of a 16-year-old African-American who reportedly told investigators he targeted whites.

    West Allis police said Thursday the teen was arrested late Wednesday. The Milwaukee teen was booked on suspicion of attempted robbery and robbery. Police recommend that he face additional penalties for hate crimes.

    Police say the teen told investigators whites were chosen because he considered them “easy targets.”

    On opening night of the fair last week, 31 people were arrested and at least 11 people were hurt. The West Allis Police Department has said race was a factor in the 11 violent incidents it’s investigating.

    The State Fair has stepped up security since the attacks.

  48. Mixing religion and politics, with the goal of changing a country from one of secular law to one of religious law is definitely not.

    Spoken like someone who knows little or nothing about the philosophy and history of law.

  49. Tigre, Rabbit, Gorilla, Alfie, Huck, or BIC,

    Can any of you possibly explain to me your own personal theories as to what it is about Sarah Palin or Michelle Bachmann, that turns left-wing adults into voyeuristic peeping Toms bent on personal destruction?

    I get the Rick Perry hatred. He’s a major player and could possibly be President. That’s the only way Obama wins, because it sure isn’t his record that is going to win. Republican and Christian (shudder). You can’t mention your strength or belief of faith and not be labeled a potential Hitler, Jim Jones, David Koresh. Heaven knows what will happen to their liberal Jiffy Pop heads if the word Jesus is mentioned. I get all that.

    But quoting from notoriety seeking scum like these Johnston white pieces of trash as authority? :shock: Thirty years ago, these people might have been committed. These are not stupid people we are dealing with either – well, except for Fat Grannies regulars. Those people are amoeba like stupid.

    It’s the damnedest thing I have witnessed in my adult lifetime. Just when I think I’ve got it pegged and it has played itself out, they resort to a new low.

  50. I think Baby Boy made his own money – and his own deal. He just didn’t share any of it with his family. All that huntin’ caribou and chasin’ nooky keeps a man SO busy, you know…

    Baby girl still lives with Mama I believe.

  51. I guess Momma Johnston didn’t make enough money by turning out her baby boy so now its the daughter’s turn.

    Maybe it is money. Does this stuff sell? I heard RoseAnne Barr is running for President. Sarah Palin has to be worse than this, isn’t she? She must be….

  52. I applaud the civil exchange between Huck and Tex regarding evangelical Christians.

    From the exchange, Huck, I think Tex has told you everything you need to know to keep Michele Bachmann as far from the White House as possible. ;-)

  53. Police say the teen told investigators whites were chosen because he considered them “easy targets.”

    Let’s hope he gets charged with a hate-crime then.

  54. Let’s hope he gets charged with a hate-crime then.

    While I appreciate your newfound appreciation for equality under the law, how about we quit trying to criminalize thought and simply charge him (and all other perpetrators) with the crimes they appear to have committed?

  55. I object, still, to the medias silence on this. Had the colors been reversed, it would be nothing but front page news.

  56. What is law, Lord Blackstone? What purpose does it serve?

    While this was directed at PF, I'm more than happy to chime in,

    Laws exist to encourage (or even demand) civil behavior on the part of members of society. That behavior may be in the realm of the financial (not stealing) or the personal (not raping or killing). Laws document and enforce societal norms. These norms may be informed by a variety of influences, including religious ones. I have no problem with that.

    Where I get concerned is where laws are overly influenced by a single ideology, detached from corporeal reality (i.e. "God told us it works this way") which then leads to irrationality being encoded in the legal code. Sharia law is one such example. Certain literal translations of the Christian Bible could result in some really f*cked up law.

    This is why our legal system must remain secular. And to those who want the legal code to reflect morality, well, there are loads of moral atheists and immoral Christians. Morality is not dependent on the presence of religion.

  57. Gorilla, the goal of all religions is not necessarily to gain as many converts as possible.

    For example Sihks (spelling) and Jews don’t actively try to recruit. There are others.

  58. Rutherford –

    I have thought about the “what is law” question for a while and I believe I have a simpler explanation.

    Its sole purpose is to protect the weak from the strong.

    Religious law, OTOH, is there to protect the strong from the weak. It is to consolidate power and profit in the hands of the priests.

  59. Here’s to capitalism at it’s finest. Unfortunately, many think that financial success and popularity is what makes for solid news and professional journalism. Oh, and truth, too. :roll:

    “Wide is the road…

    This was a good and informative read. The original was published in Rolling Stone. It makes one wonder how anyone can still insist it a liberal media…

    The only thing that remains to be seen is whether Ailes can have it both ways: reaching his goal of $1bn in annual profits while simultaneously dethroning Obama with one of his candidate-employees. Either way, he has put the Republican party on his payroll and forced it to remake itself around his image. Ailes is the Chairman, and the conservative movement now reports to him. “Republicans originally thought that Fox worked for us,” said David Frum, the former Bush speechwriter. “Now we’re discovering that we work for Fox.”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/aug/10/roger-ailes-fox-news-murdoch

    As it’s been said “Politics makes for strange bedfellows.” And this big bed is chock full of it.

  60. So R does your comment in # 68 mean you no longer appreciate my brevity?
    I’m sorry to be a bucket of cold water but seeing as I actually read and digest your posts, when you toss one out that hits me as low qual you’re likely to hear it.
    This one showed you nakedly partisan and hypocritical.

  61. Huck regardless of you being done or not… I didn’t say YOU were necessarily using revisionist methods.
    I am on a side note begging you to tell me that you had heard of the whole Nisei thing prior to a masters track though.

  62. Tex #72 FWIW
    I think the only core reason can be that contrary to the enlightenment of the Left that the sin of a female (or any other minority) adhering to a right of center ideology cannot be tolerated.
    I will say though that I was shocked and awed that N.O.W. actually spoke out against Newsweek (I think it was NW) regards comments about Bachman.

  63. I think laws were given to give legitimacy to lawyers.

    The biggest issue I have with “Christians” wanting legislation written to uphold biblical laws or principles is the fact that Jesus simplified all the laws for us.

    The golden rule.

    But that simplicity is what bothers most “intellectuals” that are confronted with it. There is NO WIGGLE ROOM! That doesn’t sit well with legalists and MANipulators™.

  64. This is why our legal system must remain secular. And to those who want the legal code to reflect morality, well, there are loads of moral atheists and immoral Christians. Morality is not dependent on the presence of religion.

    *claps*

    It isn’t often that I read a parargraph that would cause the speaker to flunk a history, philosophy, logic, and law course all at once, and you did it so effortlessly too.

    Good Work! Get yourself a green job from the jar next to the jar of unicorn droppings in the closety in tyhe back of the classroom.

  65. “This is why our legal system must remain secular. And to those who want the legal code to reflect morality, well, there are loads of moral atheists and immoral Christians. Morality is not dependent on the presence of religion.”

    ‘*claps*

    It isn’t often that I read a parargraph that would cause the speaker to flunk a history, philosophy, logic, and law course all at once, and you did it so effortlessly too.’

    Utter nonsense. Saying it is so does not make it so. Show one flaw in that thought process. One.

    In fact I think that is the perfect explanation, bringing to mind the famous letter of Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist assn:

    …Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should “make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” …

    Precisely. Govt has an interest in man’s *actions* not his opinions or beliefs and because of that, govt (which is nothing but power) *has* the power to compel.

    Religion, because it is ALL a matter of opinion – each of which, by the way, differs completely from the opinions of a dozen different religions, properly has the domain of convincing, but not of compelling. And to return to the topic, THAT is why our legal system must remain secular. And believe me, there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people just like me, motivated and vigilant, who will ensure that it stays that way. So let the Dominionists thrash, choke and cough as they try to insinuate their particular superstition into American law. It may be entertaining to watch the attempt, but it ain’t going to happen. Never.

  66. Precisely. Govt has an interest in man’s *actions* not his opinions or beliefs

    Unless we want to pretend that some crimes are somehow more illegal because of the belief that they have been committed because of the opinions or beliefs of the wrongdoer…a la “hate crimes”.

  67. The other issue I have with legislating from a biblical perspective is whose interpretation should be accepted? Should we hand pick certain rules that should apply and determine at what degree they are enforced?

    Generally the usury issue gets buried, after all, it seems to contradict the greater capitalist mantra. But where else can you find divine inspiration to legitimize murdering pagans and oppressing homosexuals, and beating slaves?

  68. I appreciate PF’s defense … but I’d also like BiW to attack my comment with more specificity. Putting aside the one sentence you actually quoted, where do you argue with my logic? I made the big mistake of taking The Theory of Law in my freshman year and the first text we were assigned had the word “norms” repeated at least a dozen times in the first page alone.

    So where have I gone wrong BiW?

    P.S. Full disclosure: I think I got a C or a C+ in that law course, primarily because I screwed around with the esoteric reading list. However I excelled at the analysis of the case studies. (I also pissed off my instructor with my criticisms of Felix Frankfurter.)

  69. Federal appeals court just deemed the ObamaCare individual mandate unconstitutional.

    This was a fairly interesting difference between Bachmann and Romney in last night’s Fox debate.

    Romney asserted that the Massachusetts constitution has no prohibition against forcing an individual to buy a product. He went on to say that State legislatures should have the option to handle this as they please.

    Bachmann was more absolute (ignorance tends to breed absolutism) and insisted that any law in the country that compelled a purchase was unconstitutional and was not reserved for the states to decide.

    I will say, last night’s debate rose above the usual Confederate of Dunces that I’ve seen before. There were some interesting exchanges about how to run our country, and thanks to “personalities” like Gingrich and Paul and to a lesser degree Bachmann, we did not see a monolithic GOP slate.

  70. Agree, it’s the state perogative to deal with the health insurance issue, however, compulsion to buy something is beyond their mandate as well. Remember, the 10th say reserved to the states and or the people.

  71. “I am on a side note begging you to tell me that you had heard of the whole Nisei thing prior to a masters track though.”

    While I did hear about it as a master’s student, that is only because that status allows me to grade papers. Last year I graded 185 papers on the topic, and the class was Freshman level. And it’s been 28 years since I was in high school, so I can’t speak to what they are teaching there these days.

    But I will throw in that the action violated multiple clauses of the 14th amendment, which was passed about 80 years prior. So the ideas about citizenship were nothing new for the time. Furthermore, there was very intense debate about the whole thing while it was happening. And the debate pretty much mirrored the discussion we had right here. So I would still argue against the claim that anyone is using revisionist analysis on this.

    But with that said, the book did not include much in the way of a lit assessment. Much of it is taken from court records and oral histories, but I have seen some authors mentioned, too. To be fair, I can’t say definitely whether or not a new book on the topic is warranted or if the author is saying anything that hasn’t already been said or using any revisionist analysis.

  72. Is it wrong for a black supreme court nominee to mention a pubic hair on a can of coke, but the commander-in-chief to get a blow job in the oval office then purger himself?

    Whose morality and whose norms?

  73. Bachmann was more absolute (ignorance tends to breed absolutism) and insisted that any law in the country that compelled a purchase was unconstitutional and was not reserved for the states to decide.

    That could be the basis for an interesting discussion. I’m assuming that you take this stand based on that “states make people buy car insurance” canard that you have tried so successfully in the past to employ in this argument (:lol:), but as has been pointed out to you time and time again, the car insurance requirement is a condition of lawfully operation a motor vehicle within the jurisdiction of a state, imposed not for the operator, but those who may be harmed by the operator’s use of the vehicle.

    Whether imposed by a state, or the federal government, an individual mandate is not imposed as a condition for doing anything, other than drawing breath, in order to fund a mediocracy that will be imposed upon everyone.

    Where does a state find a legitimate source of authority for taxing the mere state of being?

    And if there is such a legitimate basis, what are its limitations?

  74. THis should scare the shit out of everyone, including you R…

    It argued that the requirement was legal under the Commerce Clause of the Constitution. One of the three judges of the appeals court panel, Stanley Marcus, agreed with the administration in dissenting from the majority opinion.

    The majority “has ignored the undeniable fact that Congress’ commerce power has grown exponentially over the past two centuries and is now generally accepted as having afforded Congress the authority to create rules regulating large areas of our national economy,” Marcus wrote.

  75. Its sole purpose is to protect the weak from the strong.

    Talk about utter rubbish.

    So I suppose we can then justify the L.A. riots, the London riots, as either not under purview of law? Sounds like Jesse Jackson’s definition.

  76. To go 1 further, Alfie…

    We still struggle with these same issues of citizenship and due process, today. Anchor babies…Gitmo. The same arguments and analyses seem to be in play now as they were 70 years ago. So I don’t think that is revision.

  77. Tex asks, “Can any of you possibly explain to me your own personal theories as to what it is about Sarah Palin or Michelle Bachmann, that turns left-wing adults into voyeuristic peeping Toms bent on personal destruction?”

    Remember, to the left minorities and women are pets. These seem to have escaped the pen and therefore subject to savage beatings to set an example.

    Obviously it’s a weakness of character endorsed the left to feed their egos.

    PF and R, your obsession with Palin, Johnstons and evangelicals is unhealthy. You really need to look inward on why that is and ignore your pretend logic that it’s okay.

  78. Talk about utter rubbish.

    So I suppose we can then justify the L.A. riots, the London riots, as either not under purview of law? Sounds like Jesse Jackson’s definition.

    You’re getting ahead of yourself.

    Let him define his terms, so we don’t have any talk about “moving the goal posts” later.

  79. Poolman, if you’re going to simplify Christ’s Laws, then you really need to include the first half of the ‘golden rule’.

    You apparently have forgotten what comes first?

    “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind…”

    I suppose you will be telling the Pfesser’s of the world to do likewise?

  80. You’re getting ahead of yourself.

    Let him define his terms, so we don’t have any talk about “moving the goal posts” later.

    I was always the kid if he knew the answer, who waved his arms to answer! :smile:

    I’ll shall wait…

  81. “Let him define his terms, so we don’t have any talk about “moving the goal posts” later.”

    ** Tigre munches popcorn and leans back. **

  82. Agreed, Tex @ 113. But that is if they want to be among those considered “saved” or “chosen”. It is a choice, as Jesus doesn’t force Himself on anyone.

    If only the church could follow that commandment…

  83. “Can any of you possibly explain to me your own personal theories as to what it is about Sarah Palin or Michelle Bachmann, that turns left-wing adults into voyeuristic peeping Toms bent on personal destruction?”

    They don’t really care about women. They really only care about the women who share their perspectives. They have genuine, blinding hatred for women who choose not to. And they defend that hatred by claiming those women are self-loathing rather than simply taking advantage of their freedom to think for themselves and choose their own positions.

    Rutherford has all but admitted that in those exact words.

  84. “Rutherford has all but admitted that in those exact words.”

    Something about “voting against their own interests” too.

  85. Something about “voting against their own interests” too.

    Only the self-appointed cognoscienti can truly know what your own interests are, or intelligently navigate them when they are in conflict. How else do you come to the conclusion that you must ban incandescent light bulbs in order to save the planet, and replace them with a substitute made with toxic substances in form and degrees such that they would not otherwise be allowed to be incorporated into products and sold to the public?

  86. If only the church could follow that commandment…

    So I assume you’re in the camp of Pfesser, who believes church is a okay, as long as it doesn’t go outside the church walls? Just privatize it, don’t pay any heed to it. And when necessary, have a list of scriptures to use as ammunition. Judge not lest ye be judged, hey?

    Oh, I forget. You’re a “Dominionist” policeman too. :twisted: Never know when one is hiding under the bed. Only your flavor of church is right? The highest calling of any Christian is secular and liberal?

    Tell me Poolman – can you give me the scripture that would identify with that? What part of the Great Commission did I miss when and where Christ instructed his followers to leave His message within the confines of church and home?

  87. The highest calling of any Christian is to emulate Christ in every way possible. He came to provide example and left us with the Comforter. Those whom are called, anyway. His lesson was in servitude, teaching us the same while keeping our eye on the Father. He explained the greatest gift of love would be laying down one’s life for their fellow man.

    But go ahead and pretend it was a class or race distinction He was establishing…

  88. Poolman –

    John 18:36 Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world.”

    See, even Jesus believed in the separation of church and state. Why cannot his followers do the same?

  89. See, even Jesus believed in the separation of church and state. Why cannot his followers do the same?

    That’s the best you can do? Really?

    ———————————————–

    I’m still waiting for you to define your terms so I can answer your questions.

  90. I’m not being a smartass. I really don’t know what you are talking about. I must have missed it…

  91. Pooman, I think the problem with your analysis is that there are certain commonalities between the various flavors of christianity that rise above the differences, and you appear to be giving this fact short shirft.

    BiW, we are unique and relate to our Creator that way. His design, BTW. There are anals written regarding “certain commonalities between the various flavors of christianity”, all of which don’t mean poo if they contradict the Central Theme.

  92. but as has been pointed out to you time and time again, the car insurance requirement is a condition of lawfully operation a motor vehicle within the jurisdiction of a state, imposed not for the operator, but those who may be harmed by the operator’s use of the vehicle.

    You still don’t understand the point of the individual mandate. It is not to provide the payer with health insurance but to protect all other people in the system from deadbeats who want to use the ER on other people’s dime. Interestingly, this is EXACTLY how Romney justified the mandate within MA. He said that folks playing by the rules were getting robbed by folks who could afford health care but were going to the ER instead.

  93. Generally the usury issue gets buried, after all, it seems to contradict the greater capitalist mantra. But where else can you find divine inspiration to legitimize murdering pagans and oppressing homosexuals, and beating slaves?

    I hate to throw this tangent open wider, but I was wondering how this particular screed squares with

    17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Matthew 5:17-18

    And

    17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail. Luke 16:17

    .

    I’m curious how you reconcile these things.

  94. PF and R, your obsession with Palin, Johnstons and evangelicals is unhealthy.

    I don’t spend nearly as much time obsessing over Palin anymore. I do chuckle every time she tries to be a spoiler at some event (like Romney’s candidacy announcement or tomorrow’s straw poll in Iowa).

    I don’t think you’ve ever heard me talk much about Levi. He’s a punk. Clear evidence of Bristol’s poor taste in men and Mommy’s not paying attention to her daughter’s dating habits.

    As for evangelicals, just cos the Ayatollah is Christian doesn’t make him any less an Ayatollah.

    But I will say this … when Bachmann was confronted last night with her dumbass anti-feminist statement about obeying her metrosexual husband, her answer was beyond classy. I give her credit for defending her marriage and stating that she and Marcus have mutual respect. In a case of classic timing, Bachmann’s defense of her marriage was immediately followed by questions about gay marriage from the panel. :lol:

  95. You still don’t understand the point of the individual mandate. It is not to provide the payer with health insurance but to protect all other people in the system from deadbeats who want to use the ER on other people’s dime. Interestingly, this is EXACTLY how Romney justified the mandate within MA. He said that folks playing by the rules were getting robbed by folks who could afford health care but were going to the ER instead.

    Rutherford:

    Car Insurance to pay for damage that those forced to buy might cause is not the same as forcing me to buy health insurance to protect others from the harm that they inflict on others.

    The logic still fails.

  96. Without consulting a dictionary:

    To steal: To take into your possession something that belongs to someone else that was not given nor lent to you by that person.

  97. Without consulting a dictionary:

    To steal: To take into your possession something that belongs to someone else that was not given nor lent to you by that person.

    A little looser than you might want, but ok.

    Now tell me why you think that it is wrong to steal.

  98. Rutherford – I am surprised at you.

    It wasn’t Sarah’s fault! Little Bristol was supposed to be overnighting with some friends and decided to go camping instead.

    Why, the next thing she knows, she has been snookered into drinking them wine coolers and wakes up de-virginized! Raped, as it were! It’s all somebody else’s fault, don’t you see?

    (Reminds me of that old joke you pull on your buddy: “If you woke up in a tent on all fours with a rubber hanging out of your bottom, would you tell anybody?”

    “Of course not!”

    “Wanna go camping?”)

    The batshit doesn’t fall far from the tree.

  99. R, I asked a question early on. You never did answer it. You really do have schizophrenia on who is at fault here, and I think Alfie was just calling you out on it.

    And why the fuck care about Bristol or Levi at all. The fact that you have an opinion or rattled any description of them at all is just. . . disturbing.

  100. Car Insurance to pay for damage that those forced to buy might cause is not the same as forcing me to buy health insurance to protect others from the harm that they inflict on others.

    No, it’s much more personal than that.

    protect others from the harm that they inflict on others you.

    You are the one being robbed. The mandate makes sure you are not robbed and that you in turn do not rob others.

  101. Regarding 139 and my daughter’s eventual teen years … who said parenting was easy? I didn’t say Sarah failed at something easy, I just said she failed.

  102. You are the one being robbed. The mandate makes sure you are not robbed and that you in turn do not rob others.

    Rutherford, if I accept you proposition, and I really don’t, then who made it government’s business to protect me from “being robbed” when they made the robbery possible. And how is it a solution to make government place a direct tax on me to legitimize and pay for the robbers’ activities instead of letting the system place an indirect tax on me made necessary due to government regulations?

    This isn’t rocket science. It is insulting, but it isn’t rocket science.

  103. Now tell me why you think that it is wrong to steal.

    This gets trickier and I go here without the benefit of a strong grounding in the great philosophers.

    It is wrong to steal because there is an implicit notion that one comes by one’s possessions through some sort of effort, i.e. possessions are in some way “earned”. Therefore it is wrong for someone who has not earned the possession to take it from the person who has. The person who has earned the possession may wish to give (charity) or sell (commerce) that possession and in that case “stealing” is no longer in play.

    P.S. Thank heavens for spell check because out of several tries, I only spelled possession correctly once. :-)

  104. Regarding 139 and my daughter’s eventual teen years … who said parenting was easy? I didn’t say Sarah failed at something easy, I just said she failed.

    And my point is that you have either forgotten what it is like to be a teenager, and do things that are the epitome of bad judgment, or you had a really boring adolescence, but either way, your comment ignores the fact that teenagers do really dumb things despite their parents’ best efforts some times.

  105. It is wrong to steal because there is an implicit notion that one comes by one’s possessions through some sort of effort, i.e. possessions are in some way “earned”. Therefore it is wrong for someone who has not earned the possession to take it from the person who has. The person who has earned the possession may wish to give (charity) or sell (commerce) that possession and in that case “stealing” is no longer in play.

    So what?

    You might have a really nice Rolex. I might want a really nice Rolex, and doing the work that might permit me to earn the money to buy one is really, really, really boring. Besides, I’m pretty sure I could just take it from you. So why would that be wrong?

  106. But go ahead and pretend it was a class or race distinction He was establishing…

    No, no race or distinction other than a distinction of sheep vs. goats.

    I just think the central theme of your message here is consistently man’s laws are uniquely separate from God’s laws, or have no basis in God’s laws. I understand some billy goat like Pfesser not “getting it”, even if he too likes to invoke scripture on occasion, when in truth what Pfesser has made abundantly clear is he believes Jesus was both lunatic and liar because of the claims Christ made. But you? One of the admitted outstanding and enlightened apostles?

    It’s certainly convenient to have a “religion” like yours when you allow yourself access to abortion clinics under the guise of “well, not everything they do has to do with abortion” and sign their pledge cards of support, or vote for abortion on demand opponents, or you want to walk away from not paying for a promise you made, or a debt you owe, or consistently living under the premise of Poolman’s self-prescribed annual Jubilee.

    You’re incredibly critical against virtually every Christian in public service (that has an ‘R’ behind their name), that has the unmitigated gall to mention as much, then scoff at their admission of being led by God, knowing fully well what they say is scripturally based if they are what they say they are. Yet, you never tender somebody who you think “really gets it” besides Poolman.

    Are you blessed with special gifts or insight that the rest of us wouldn’t be?

  107. Perhaps I’m wrong, but have your views changed, and if so why?

    Tigre, you asked several questions but I’ll tackle the first and easy one. (Let me know which question was most urgent and I’ll tackle that one).

    My views haven’t changed. In my prior post (I started a joke) I thought I made it pretty clear that all the players in this debt ceiling fiasco disgust me.

  108. R, fuck it.

    Obama “caved.”

    The Tea Party were hostage takers.

    The dems were victimized.

    There were a string of comments too.

    And you say this is the same post as the last.

    Whatever.

  109. BiW seems to me you’ve ignored the first answer I gave you regarding right vs wrong. Integral to the notion of possession is “earned possession”. If you haven’t earned it, you have no right to take it.

    Now of course, society presents us with exceptions all the time, like sweepstakes, LOTTO, etc.

    BTW, I’m not the dumbass you think I am … I know where this is going. “Why should the government then codify a law that makes it right to take earnings from one person and give them to someone who did not earn them? Why is that not government sanctioned stealing?”

    This brings us full circle to the definition of stealing. Is stealing in the name of restoring equity really stealing? Can stealing be defined completely detached from motive? Was Robin Hood a crook or a hero?

  110. Tigre, I’m not entirely sure I said the Dem’s were victimized.

    Yes, Obama caved … he always does … as I’ve said ad nauseam he has no ideological core.

  111. BTW, I’m not the dumbass you think I am … I know where this is going. “Why should the government then codify a law that makes it right to take earnings from one person and give them to someone who did not earn them? Why is that not government sanctioned stealing?”

    No, you simply picked up on the bonus question, and then still came to the wrong conclusion, because your inquiry never starts from the right place.

    You defined the term. I asked you why the activity is wrong. You didn’t really answer the question.

    Why is it wrong? You’re getting to the dessert with the obvious follow up, but you haven’t yet eaten your peas.

  112. This brings us full circle to the definition of stealing. Is stealing in the name of restoring equity really stealing? Can stealing be defined completely detached from motive? Was Robin Hood a crook or a hero?

    Until you understand the proper role of government vis a vis the individual, you will never properly comprehend the concept of equity.

    The story behind your example wasn’t about equalling the rich and the poor. It was about government losing its legitimacy by the unequal application of law upon its citzens, and refusing to apply it in a uniform fashion.

  113. I’m curious how you reconcile these things.

    No problem. Read the context of the cited passages.

    For those following the law, it still applies. John the Baptist was the cutoff. Jesus fulfilled the law (Matt 5:17) and His followers write His laws in our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33 and Romans 2:12-15)

  114. No problem. Read the context of the cited passages.

    For those following the law, it still applies. John the Baptist was the cutoff. Jesus fulfilled the law (Matt 5:17) and His followers write His laws in our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33 and Romans 2:12-15)

    Yes, but what laws are those, poolman? I’ve already worked that answer out for myself, but it still seems to me that you contradict yourself.

  115. Have any of you ever read Margaret & Helen’s website? I have. There is no beauty there.

    I had to tell them so.

  116. I love your site Rutherford! You’re the smartest liberal I have ever read.

    They need your help at Margaret and Helen’s blog. Yes they do.

  117. Yes, but what laws are those, poolman?

    Knowledge of good and evil, right and wrong. Some would refer to it as a conscience, also expressed in Romans 2:15. The righteous are justified by faith. Think Abram/Abraham. Before “the written law” was given.

    I’ve already worked that answer out for myself, but it still seems to me that you contradict yourself.

    I don’t see a contradiction. Explain.

  118. Pat Condell on the British riots. While everyone else wrings their hands in PC angst, Pat tells it straight:

  119. I sometimes don’t agree with Pat Condell, especially his militant atheism, but in this particular case, damn straight.

    As the brilliant Ann Coulter noted (and now we emasculated men are dependent upon a few good women to give us a backbone, because our self-esteem may be damaged if somebody calls us an intolerant racist or bigot), the only way to deal with a mob is to smash it. Bring in the tanks.

    Some of these amoral assholes have been profiled and actually have multi-millionaires for parents – but their “disenfranchised.” Isn’t that a bitch?

    Give me a good, thick bamboo shoot with some holes drilled in it, I’ll give the Dead Rabbit about 25 Babe Ruth swings at these disenfranchised youth’s naked asses. And I’ll guarantee you, we will provide a lifetime of attitude adjustment.

    After the flesh from their lazy asses is ripped from their body, which I will disinfect with Clorox, we’ll confiscate their flat screens, IPads and IPhones and dance like wild Injuns on their ‘disenfranchised equipment while they watch, with a promise the next time it will be a bullet to their temple.

    No more mob rule. Very easy and guaranteed.

  120. “the only way to deal with a mob is to smash it. Bring in the tanks.”

    Normally I’d be right there with you on this, but I am compelled to point out….

    That didn’t work very well in Egypt…. or Syria….. or Libya….

  121. We will never get our spending under control until we demand accountability from this money sucking behemoth.

    The United States military budget accounts for over 40% of the world’s annual military expenditures and, at around $700 billion per year, more than 20% of the federal budget. The Federal government wants to curb that spending as part of deficit reduction.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/budget-buster-pentagon-unable-account-trillions-glain-says-160838112.html

  122. Normally I’d be right there with you on this, but I am compelled to point out….

    That didn’t work very well in Egypt…. or Syria….. or Libya

    Didn’t have the right people pointing the turrets. Seemed to work very effectively in Tiananmen Square and Moscow’s Red Square.

    Actually, I’m half joking Huck with the examples I used – I’m not joking about the tanks, or smashing the mob. Remember the Korean grocers firing from the top of their stores during the L.A.riots? They understood what needed to be done with thugs and most of their stores survived.

    The folks in Egypt, Syria or Libya are desperate. I consider them the heroes (I think, we’ll see) and legitimate protestors up against despots. They’re willing to sacrifice their lives to make change. These goons in Britain are roving bands of hooligans who should be shot on site without mercy IMO. And I would bet dropping a few of them with extreme prejudice, randomly would stop this crap immediately.

    Idiots of this persuasion understand two things – raw power and no mercy.

  123. If by “money sucking behemoth” you mean the entitlement state, I couldn’t agree more. I notice your source doesn’t mention the percentage of the federal budget that sucks up.

  124. “Didn’t have the right people pointing the turrets. Seemed to work very effectively in Tiananmen Square and Moscow’s Red Square.”

    Very valid points.

    I would attribute it to those who had the weapons pointed at them. Not to say Chinese or Russians are more afraid than Arabs. But their movement wasn’t as determined, and therefor unable to withstand the force used against it.

    I admit the idiots in England don’t compare to the movements in the Middle East. And I suspect you are more right than wrong. But when I read the statement, what I commented was the first thing that popped into my mind.

  125. But their movement wasn’t as determined, and therefor unable to withstand the force used against it.

    Exactly. Make these thugs understand that to play this game, you are staking your life on you can get away with it swiping the big screen. I don’t think the thieves in jolly, old London are willing to play that high an ante. I’m almost sure of it.

    And I understand the Brits have some excellent marksmen. The sight of your thug friend’s head being vaporized who was standing beside you, while you’re kicking the window is a game changer. :twisted:

    If they are that stupid, then drop them and leave them for the rats. I could be wrong, but I think the public sentiment would fall on the side of the police watching a few of these worthless pieces of trash wasted.

    If it doesn’t, then those places aren’t work saving anyway.

  126. I don’t think the thieves in jolly, old London are willing to play that high an ante. I’m almost sure of it.
    Damn skippy they ain’t. They run away when the cops come and at that not even the gun squads guys just good ole Bill without firearms.
    Sadly England is relying more on their Big Brother CCTV systems to catch folks after the fact.

  127. First his minions said Obama was like Jesus. That didn’t fly. Then on inaugural day, Obama was called the second coming of Honest Abe. But that didn’t work out either.

    Then Obama tried to sell himself a Dimocratic Ronald Reagan and the people laughed at him.

    So who is left to compare? That’s right. Now Obama is the resurrected Martin Luther King Jr.

    And now that King has his own memorial on the Mall I think that we forget when he was alive there was nobody who was more vilified, nobody who was more controversial, nobody who was more despairing at times. There was a decade that followed the great successes of Birmingham and Selma in which he was just struggling, fighting the good fight, and scorned, and many folks angry. But what he understood, what kept him going, was that the arc of moral universe is long but it bends towards justice. But it doesn’t bend on its own. It bends because all of us are putting our hand on the arc and we are bending it in that direction. And it takes time. And it’s hard work. And there are frustrations. ~ Barack Obama, at a small, exclusive New York City fundraiser Thursday night

    http://www.whitehousedossier.com/2011/08/13/obama-compares-martin-luther-king/

    Obama is not only pathetic and a national disaster and disgrace. He’s obviously deluded.

  128. Want to see a fraud in action?

    Catch this medical advice from Dr. Obama when his teleprompter goes out, then tell me this dope is Presidential material and “gifted.” Classic. Be sure to get your asthmatic child a “breathalyzer” next attack. :lol:

  129. the only way to deal with a mob is to smash it. Bring in the tanks.

    Too funny. Sounds a lot like the way they handle things in Iran and Libya.

    Don’t get me wrong. I understand Condell’s frustration. The bobbies have their hands tied with politically correct restrictions on their ability to enforce the law. But let’s ease off the swagger a bit.

    By the way, Tex, I had to chuckle at your handing the bamboo shoots to Rabbit for the assault. Is that a sign of old age … leaving the butt whupping to the younger generation? ;-)

  130. Poolman, the most interesting thing about the videos you posted is that if Neville just had an American accent, there would be nothing surprising about this stuff. In other words, I am surprised that the gripe in London sounds exactly like what we are debating on this side of the pond, including racial injustice and economic injustice.

  131. By the way, Tex, I had to chuckle at your handing the bamboo shoots to Rabbit for the assault. Is that a sign of old age … leaving the butt whupping to the younger generation?

    Oh, hell know. I haven’t played golf in quite a few years now since I quit work. But I could routinely crank a drive more than 300 yards in my early 40s, even get a few ooow awws from the crowd, though I had no fricking idea where the ball was going sometimes. That’s big boy territory. I don’t know how many roofs I blasted in the distance n this gated community when I pulled it off the tee box. I’d run up the fairway and drop one in the middle of fairway before the owner came out. :lol:

    But I can’t hit a slow pitch softball 350 ft. like I saw Rabbit do. That and the fact the Rabbit outweighs me by 75 lbs, and has arms that looked like Hulk Hogan. I figure the Rabbit could rip a bigger chunk of ass than I could. :twisted: In fact, I know he could.

    Plus the Rabbit is about 15 years younger. I think and I’d probably leave my vertebrae on the floor out of trying to kill one of these bastards when I swung.

  132. Rutherford,

    Yes, very much like here. Just wait, we are not far behind.

    I think the most telling thing is the way the police allow it to happen without stopping it. There are many incidents like that, where it seems the authorities are instructed to stand down. Late or no response is always suspect, especially in the UK where everything is under constant surveillance.

    Gordon makes the best sense of it I think. Given the latest world events, I’d say it best connects the dots…

  133. The current civil unrest in Britain has been carefully staged by the government and security services working in concert with news media, Israeli intelligence and the a parallel government, a Freemason organization now believed to have planned and executed the Norway killings with full complicity of police, courts and security apparatus.</i. ~ Gordon Huff, Veterans Today
    :lol: :lol: :lol:

    That's your best conspiracy yet Poolman. Even better than that Troofer organization you formed.

    Do you guys have liked secret decoder pens and stuff? It's like an X-files episode.

    Can I join? It can't be expensive.

  134. Do you now I have wasted one whole golf tournament and another 90 minutes making fun debating at Margaret and Helen’s upstanding blog?

    I’m getting worse about wasting my life instead of better.

    But that shit hole outstanding blog manned by some the lowest and dumbest dregs on earth of the finest citizens in America is such an inviting target. place.

  135. That’s secret decoder phones, wood boy. Jealous?

    I knew as soon as I posted it I’d get a rise from you. I’m certain you have a better explanation as to why the police allowed this to go on while watching from the sidelines. Right?

  136. Just like an X-files episode. You’re awful astute.

    there’s something that caught my attention about the recent ‘disturbances’. I’ve noticed that, while the British police have no problem harassing people on an individual and daily basis, over the past few nights they seem to have been under order to just stand around and allow the looting and burning to proceed unchallenged. So, are we dealing with another example of high-level incompetence, or could there be some other more insidious scheme playing out? Something along the lines of ‘stoke the fires of social unrest among a certain demographic and then stand back and allow the rest of the middle and upper class ‘whiteys’ be ‘utterly appalled’ at the anti-social behavior of the rioters’.

    What do you think, Winston? Prefer Murdoch’s version?

    By the way, broadcasters have apparently been told to refer to the riots as “English” rather than “UK” to avoid provoking the ire of Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish armchair patriots. Sure, the riots have been in England, but rest assured that any ‘security measures’ implemented as a result of the actions of those unruly English thugs, will be enjoyed by all of her majesty’s subjects.

    http://joequinn.net/

  137. Hubby likes ‘em, too!

    But of course we always suspected that.

    Maybe he could give himself some Christian counseling to rid himself of the corndog demon.

  138. Maybe he could give himself some Christian counseling to rid himself of the corndog demon.

    Looks to me like you’re between a Barack and a hard place Dr. Mao. On one hand, you’re left with the Barack – Jimmy Carter’s young idiot assistant. On the other, you just might be saying President & Dominionist Rick Perry.

    If I were you, I’d be digging out those Yes We Can! signs in your garage you kept as cherished mementos, fist bumping with the Fat Granny crowd, and financing those enlightened Alaskan bloggers to do battle against your foes.

    What’s a militant, goose stepping atheist to do?

    God does work in mysterious ways.

  139. I knew as soon as I posted it I’d get a rise from you. I’m certain you have a better explanation as to why the police allowed this to go on while watching from the sidelines. Right?

    You get about as much a rise from me is Pfesser’s purposely placed posts mocking anything Christian. I’ll always comment on them, because I enjoy the give and take. I probably understand his shortcomings more than I do yours, truth be known.

    On one hand, we’ve got an obviously angry, lost and troubled individual who came from complete dysfunction, has proffered on this blog he still lives in complete dysfunction, and for all his bluster and braggadocio, is miserably unhappy. When your priorities are misplaced, its outcome is certain. Militant atheists always are. That, I can actually pity and somewhat understand.

    On the other, we’ve got a certifiable loon. It’s just a different form of hate mongering – yours more malicious gossip which only the bottom feeders believe more than anything else.

    Undoubtedly Mr. Poolman, you are not familiar with recent history of Londonistan, or its elected mayor from 2000-2008 Ken ‘Red’ Livingstone, who was finally run out of office? Or aware of the state of London’s police force?

    London has been going down this road for at least 25 years. Paris has experienced much the same. You have a large influx of foreigners who failed to assimilate and a large, socialistic nanny state with an overwhelming sense of entitlement.

    It will be happening here soon. See?

  140. It will be happening here, you’re right about that. We’d much rather build and feed our drones or send it overseas, like the aid we give the nation of Israel amounting to over $14K per year per Israeli citizen.

  141. Oh goodie I get a shot at being #200 again. I likes round number.
    So I don’t watch embedded vids so I have to ask. A candidate or a candidates spouse eating a product that ranks as one of Iowas sole reasons to exist is a bad thing???
    As for London. Policing like that which was on view in London recently is and has been SOP there and HERE.
    Shit head hooligans are allowed to run amok usually destroying their own community in the sweet irony that is shithead hooliganism.
    The reason it looked so bad this time is that a number of organized and loose cannon types used the miracle of Twitter and other social media to circumvent he control zones.The result being the cops looking flat-footed.
    It won’t happen here imo for four reasons.
    Americas diversity won’t allow for large scale ops.
    Our cops will sooner or later just shoot you.
    Our youth are some of the weakest on the planet.
    Our citizens will sooner or later shoot you.

  142. “It won’t happen here imo for four reasons.”

    I sat in my living room and watched Reginald Denny get his head caved in on live TV as the LA riots began. I sat and watched cops gather on street corners and do nothing while roving gangs of thugs patrolled the streets. I sat and watched hoodlums destroy their community for 3 or 4 days while police did nothing.

    Don’t kid yourself. It can…and has…happened here.

  143. No Huck that is exactly the point.
    The rioters were contained in a defined space.
    Members of the community stood up for good,like the guy that saved Denny.
    Korean grocers took to the roof armed.

  144. “Mr. Poolman, you are not familiar with recent history of Londonistan…”

    Tex, why are you using that reference when Muslims have absolutely nothing to do with what is going on in London?

    “You have a large influx of foreigners who failed to assimilate and a large, socialistic nanny state with an overwhelming sense of entitlement.”

    That doesn’t have anything to do with it, either.

    This is all about a sense of entitlement. And it isn’t the entitlement of the “foreigners” (why don’t you just say “Muslims” because we all know that is who you mean) that is at play. Its the entitlement of idiots who think breaking into a store and stealing a flat screen TV is a way to get back their taxes.

  145. Sorry Huck we’ll have to agree to disagree. Isolated riots in the US don’t compare to the national movements seen in Europe.The closest thing we have is that during some events such as the conventions,WTO and in one of my own up close and personal experiences a transit/rent strike thing in Boston professionals do come.Usually pseud-anarchists and conspiracy rag reading types. Again they have to prove they can circumvent the control zones up until now they have not and at best garner some attention regards free speech. The general public doesn’t seem to have a problem with these folks having their free speech confined to an off site free speech zone.
    This leaves my side still facing the “it could…” I say it won’t for the reasons previously stated.

  146. Huck, I don’t think we should give anyone any “free” money. I think we need to ratchet down our MIC, stop sending aid abroad, especially to terrorist nations, and concentrate our efforts on restoring our national integrity.

    A good start would be honoring our existing laws by prosecuting the real criminals holding government positions and corporate titles, including bankers, that continue to destroy this once great nation. In the UK, as well as here in the US, justice is not blind. Rather, it holds a double standard. How can you expect the youth to honor our established laws when the leaders in our society do not?

    Capitalism has driven industry abroad, taking jobs with it and leaving us ill equipped at providing employment opportunities for our youth, most having grown up with a consumer and entitlement mentality fomented by our media, society, and the public education system.

    The undermining of the family structure has left our youth with little, if any coping skills, and very few role models to emulate. The military seems to be the only employment opportunity for many. Because of numerous tours of duty, many are destroyed for life. We have an enormous increase in the rate of suicides, surpassing the casualties of combat in addition to incalculable cases of PTSD with little to no help for prevention or care.

  147. Huck, I used Londonistan because that is a large part of the socialist expense occurred in London, and the fact that much of the police have been accused of brutality within the Muslim population – making the police even hesitant to intervene during riots.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8126357/Muslims-clash-with-police-after-burning-poppy-in-anti-Armistice-Day-protest.html

    However, you are right that Muslims apparently were not the rioters in this regard. In Paris, we can not say the same.

  148. Capitalism has driven industry abroad, taking jobs with it and leaving us ill equipped at providing employment opportunities for our youth, most having grown up with a consumer and entitlement mentality fomented by our media, society, and the public education system.

    You mean draconian taxes and regulation by our government that have forced industry to be driven abroad? Do I once again, for the 1000th time, need to remind the Poolman American industry faces: (1) Compliance costs totaling 1/8 of our economy; (2) the highest corporate tax structure in the world; (3) Uncertainty with respect to expense, including socialism called Obamacare?

    You can make that excuse for manufacturing in “libbie” land, but you’ll have a hard time convincing me that it is driven domestic pool business abroad.

  149. Small business is certainly hurting due in a large part by “draconian taxes and regulation”. Large corporations bypass the US tax laws yet still market their goods to US citizens. All the benefit without paying the piper. This large scale injustice seems to be the envy of all capitalists. It has affected domestic industry in many ways both directly and indirectly, including the swimming pool business.

  150. “…much of the police have been accused of brutality within the Muslim population – making the police even hesitant to intervene during riots.”

    That is certainly a possibility. However…

    If I am not mistaken (which is possible), this whole thing began over the protest of a specific claim of police brutality that I don’t think involved a Muslim. I find it a greater possibility that it was that claim alone that kept the police at bay…just like it did in Los Angeles.

  151. Huck,

    I know this is a sensitive subject between the two of us, with both of us thinking the other side unfair in both their perceptions and their judgment. And in fairness to you, I acknowledge this particular London affair has little to do with the Muslim influx into London.

    I was pointing to previous affair(s) which were wholly clashes between Islam and police, where police were declared thugs themselves for intervening and stipulating that is a part of the reason for the soft approach.

  152. I checked about Poolman’s claim of large corporations paying little or no federal taxes. In some cases that is true – either due to write offs or sheltered earnings overseas. The most egregious example is Obama’s appointed point man for “jobs creation”, Jeffrey Immelt and GE who paid no federal taxes, and in fact took a tax credit of $1.1 billion and Bank of America with a credit of $1.9 billion.

    Perhaps some of these liberals would care to explain the mixed message of Barack Obama and his associates. Seems to me the closer to Obama’s campaign, the less taxes paid.

    So I checked the latest filings *:

    (1) Walmart (taxes $7.1 billion) Tax Rate: 34.2%
    (2) Exxon Mobil (taxes $15.0 billion) Tax Rate: 47.0%
    (3) Chevron (taxes $8.0 billion) Tax Rate: 43.0%
    (4) GE (taxes $-1.1 billion) Tax Rate: N/A
    (5) ConocoPhillips (taxes $5.0 billion) Tax Rate: 51.0%
    (6) AT & T (taxes $4.4 billion) Tax Rate: 32.4%
    (7) Bank of America (taxes $-1.9 billion) Tax Rate: N/A
    (8) Ford Motor Co. (taxes $0.07 billion) Tax Rate: 2.3%
    (9) Hewlett Packard (taxes $1.75 billion) Tax Rate: 18.6%
    (10) Berkshire Hathaway (taxes $3.5 billion) Tax Rate: 30.0%

    Now what I found most interesting about this, is the claim of “big oil” paying little or no taxes. And I noted that the three largest “ripoffs” paid taxes ranging from 43% – 51%, with little of it paid in the U.S. Except what is not included in these figures are excise taxes: And let’s remember that the federal government coffers take in approximately 4 times what the oil companies do for each gallon of gas or diesel sold.

    So saying “big oil” is not paying their “fair share” seems ludicrous to me. Would it be better if we forced big oil to move everything entirely offshore? There is certainly nothing from keeping them moving their headquarters overseas and incorporating in a different country. Is that liberals want? To move more jobs overseas?

    * Source: http://finance.yahoo.com/taxes/article/109244/what-the-top-us-companies-pay-in-taxes

  153. A specific incident which is growing into something other than originally reported (cue Poolman types) was viewed fair or unfair as the catalyst to the ensuing civil unrest.The spread of violence had nothing to do with the death of Mr Duggan though,it all morphed into something else going beyond being about the concerns of the UK Afro-Caribbean population.

  154. To some degree of irony three people killed during riots in Birmingham were Muslims who were trying to protect their family biz.
    Of interest to some who reside in these here threads, an interesting dynamic afoot in the UK is that the “Asians” (Sikhs & Muslims) are holding onto their faith whilst the whites and blacks….not so much.
    Anyone wonder if that could be something that could happen here?

  155. I meant to ask you Poolman about this comment, versus my supplying the video documenting the failed nanny state.

    It will be happening here, you’re right about that. We’d much rather build and feed our drones or send it overseas, like the aid we give the nation of Israel amounting to over $14K per year per Israeli citizen.

    I assume you think it more productive to give food stamps to moms with no fathers and six children she can’t feed, than building drones to kill terrorists? Okay.

    Poolman, I know your math skills are probably rusty like mine, but I would think owning a small business, you might still have some multiplication skills.

    $14,000.00 x 7.7MM (current Israeli population) = $107,800,000.000.00

    So you’re trying to tell me that in 2010, we gave $107.8 billion of military and economic aid to Israel? Really? Where are the hiding it?

    I believe even your distortions are distorted.

  156. Huck, :grin:

    I assume you’re talking about the tax exempt unions? Hmmm…

    Probably about what Poolman paid in fed taxes if I was venturing a guess.

    You know Huck. Maybe you weren’t meaning to, but you’ve given me a new idea for “revenue generation” along with my movie ticket excise tax, trial lawyer windfall profits tax, and closing all those Hollywood production tax loopholes.

    And since they’re threatening over at M&H about pushing Teabagger states to involuntary secession (of which I happily volunteer to be a trial state as long as we can work out the logistics), it seems to me only fair that unions should pay what? 35% Fed, 7% state? That sounds about fair. Maybe a union excise tax of $20.00 per head too.

    Wait until Cushing, OK, slaps a $250.00 per barrel surcharge on a per barrel basis for Teabaggee states like Vermont. Going to get mighty cold up in them parts come January. (Cushing is the pipeline hub for the United States). :grin:

  157. A crying shame the vote isn’t sooner…

    http://pohdiaries.com/gallup-obama-approval-at-39/

    Here’s the interesting part:

    When’s the last time you saw polling about the prospect of an incumbent President even being the nominee? The fact that they’re even conducting this poll tells me that Obama’s in more trouble than maybe even we realize.

    They know. You betcha. :wink:

  158. I believe even your distortions are distorted.

    You might be right about that one and with the rusty math. I was working from an accumulative total that is verifiable. It is difficult to assess how much more may go that direction, given the secrecy in those circles. We have experienced how lacking the DOD is with their accounting. We certainly don’t get to see the books at the Fed.

    No matter. However much, it is more than we can afford right now. We should review ALL foreign aid. At least food stamps can help the LOCAL grocer.

  159. Poolman, You were only off by a factor of approximately 60. :lol: That’s a lot of secrecy.

    See what happens when you hang around Fat Grannies too long? The mind numbs and the brain waves bend toward left field, then out of the park – I call it the Dominionist factor. Pile in a little Chatty Kitchen and it’s enough morbid idiocy to plaster even the greatest of mathematical minds.

    Just being over there for short bursts like yesterday, hanging around the pathological liars and militant atheistic, dysfunctional goats tends to warp me even more than usual. I was so effective at trolling yesterday, it even pissed off the milder, less sensitive ones. It takes a toll of associating with that magnitude of sheer stupidity.

    I’ve never seen such a ghastly train wreck on any blog.

  160. After reading your source and in an effort to undistort further distorted distortions…

    (1) Walmart (taxes $7.1 billion) Tax Rate: 34.2%

    “1.2 billion are International taxes”

    (2) Exxon Mobil (taxes $15.0 billion) Tax Rate: 47.0%

    “None of ExxonMobil’s income taxes were paid in the U.S.”

    Exxon tries to limit the tax pain with the help of 20 wholly owned subsidiaries domiciled in the Bahamas, Bermuda and the Cayman Islands that (legally) shelter the cash flow from operations in the likes of Angola, Azerbaijan and Abu Dhabi. No wonder that of $15 billion in income taxes last year, Exxon paid none of it to Uncle Sam, and has tens of billions in earnings permanently reinvested overseas

    (3) Chevron (taxes $8.0 billion) Tax Rate: 43.0%

    $200 million were paid in the U.S.

    (5) ConocoPhillips (taxes $5.0 billion) Tax Rate: 51.0%

    “The oil companies are oddities among the multinationals because many of the oil-rich countries where they do business levy even higher taxes than the U.S”

    (7) Bank of America (taxes $-1.9 billion) Tax Rate: N/A

    “How did Bank of America not pay any taxes on $4.4 billion in income? Because of deductions like $860 million in tax-exempt income, $670 million in low-income housing credits and a $600 million loss on shares of foreign subsidiaries. With a provision for credit losses of $49 billion, Bank of America probably won’t be paying taxes for a long time.”

  161. Are you conservatives good with Michele Bachmann? She is the front runner right now. I’m more comfortable with Ron Paul. That is, unless Obama pulls a rabbit out of his hat. I’m not holding my breath for that.

  162. Bachmann is not the front runner. That’s a ruse.

    Poolman, that’s wishful thinking on behalf of brain dead Dimocrats trying like hell to get her elected because they think she is the one candidate who Hussein Obama can beat. And they are probably right, along with maybe Santorum. Rickie is not electable either and rather weak. Other than Pawlenty, I consider Bachmann the least electable candidate. That straw poll is to determine whose is the favorite of the unelectable and totally meaningless. I would say Ron Paul ranks about ninth in reality – one step ahead of Dimocrat Jon Huntsman. Paul has his groupies who stuff ballot boxes. But there is one thing you and I agree on – Paul understands the danger of the Fed better than anybody running.

    Actually, Michelle Bachmann has carried herself far better than I thought she could. She’s actually pretty intelligent and well spoken – but not polished and says too many stupid things. Not bad to look at either. And Bachmann is far more capable than Sarah Palin, who has worn out her welcome – but Bachmann again is not electable. She’s a nice Congresswoman in an irrelevant district. She should stay there and keep ruffling Dimocrat’s feathers like Sarah Palin.

    No, I don’t want Bachmann as President – far from it, unless the alternative is Barack Obama or Hillary Rotten Clinton. And I say that as a Conservative.

    Romney or Perry, unless Christie or Rubio enter the race – either of them could win going away and blow Hussein Obama out of the water by at least 10 points. The One’s approval numbers are now at George Bush levels and dropping like a mercury filled bowling ball. The Libs will support Hussein no matter what, so I ignore their carping. Poseurs like Pfesser will hold his nose and vote for Brackie because they share a common trait – unedifying. Urban blacks will come out in droves because they hate whitey, then the urban city dwellers will act like animals when Barack loses. Hispanics aren’t thrilled with The One and I look for him to lose major support. The mob will need to be smashed with terminal force.

    Republicans have to always win by 5-7% to offset the cheating, ACORN, stuffing, and resurrection of the dead. That’s a known fact, so as always, it will be closer than the true vote.

    Number one goal on the list for 2012 is to get that 60’s anarchist, colonial bastard, statist and his gawd awful spouse out of our White House, then fumigate it to remove their foul stench. Remove every thing they’ve fouled, including the hideous decorations. That will take a year.

    Next on my personal list to see marched to the curb is that fat, lying sack from Missouri, Claire McBigMac. I disdain that pretentious, lying witch. She reminds me of Jabba the Hutt when she opens her mouth and her green tongue falls out.

  163. Republicans have to always win by 5-7% to offset the cheating, ACORN, stuffing, and resurrection of the dead. That’s a known fact, so as always, it will be closer than the true vote.

    A handicap, eh? I don’t buy it. If anything, recent history points in the other direction. And then there’s all the gerrymandering. I don’t trust either camp, myself.

    I think Bachmann will be the front-runner with Ron Paul siphoning off votes as third party candidate, putting Obama in for a second term, as long as we aren’t in total chaos/police state status.

    Well we know Bank of America won’t be contributing to this nation’s overhead expenses for a while. But they damn sure will make plenty in fees from their clients while sitting in their prime locations across this nation. Over how much property are they holding title? Isn’t banking the very biggest of pyramid schemes?

  164. “trial lawyer windfall profits tax?”

    Hey now. Coming from the likes of you and Rabbit, that would be 100% of my income.

    Can’t we just tax stupidity? It’s high time the dems chipped in.

  165. A handicap, eh? I don’t buy it. If anything, recent history points in the other direction. And then there’s all the gerrymandering. I don’t trust either camp, myself.

    Of course. You’re a lib and wrong about everything. You’ve been lying and cheating so long, you’re practically ACORN.

    I think Bachmann will be the front-runner with Ron Paul siphoning off votes as third party candidate, putting Obama in for a second term, as long as we aren’t in total chaos/police state status.

    Bet you $10.00 just for grins. I’ll even give you 5-1 odds you’re completely wrong. Surely you can afford that. :smile: I’ll donate my winnings to Rutherford’s blog.

  166. Hey now. Coming from the likes of you and Rabbit, that would be 100% of my income.

    Yeah, I still haven’t been able how to penalize the libs and not take a pound of flesh or two out of the good guys. Actually, I was thinking about those class-action lawsuit things I always see advertised.

  167. Then you set after PP, Medicare, Social Security, anything union, unemployment benefits, food stamps, public education, public libraries, public period. I see how you are.

    Real tyrants, hey? Medicare makes up 26.5% of the entire budget – the biggest item of our national budget, and 10 times bigger than originally forecast. Planned Parenthood is America’s biggest abortion provider paid by gov’t to perform 300K abortions a year, 1/6 of the American public are currently on food stamps, Social Security has an empty money drawer and a legalized Ponzi scheme to screw future generations, public education controlled by liberal intelligentsia and in complete disarray.

    These last three years have been the apotheosis of your politic Poolman. Your man. Your vote.

    If you could see past your loony ideas while staring cross eyed, you might finally discover you are invariably on the wrong side of the equation about anything of national importance. Frankly, it’s a disgrace, but you’ve got millions as company.

  168. If you could see past your loony ideas while staring cross eyed, you might finally discover you are invariably on the wrong side of the equation about anything of national importance.

    Actually we are both on the wrong side of the equation of national impotence, since we don’t print money and aren’t buds with anyone that does. Like B of A, the other side knows how to glean as much as they can from our collective energies, while not expending any of their own.

  169. Oh, there is so much blood in the water…

    Mr. President, let us tell you something, you cannot win the future by selling America off to foreign creditors. We cannot afford four more years of this rudderless leadership. Last week, that leadership failed and the tax and spend and borrow agenda of this president led to the first-ever downgrading of credit rating of the United States of America.

    In reality, though, this is just the most recent downgrade. The fact is that for nearly three years, President Obama has been downgrading American jobs, he’s been downgrading our standing in the world, he’s been downgrading our financial stability, he’s been downgrading our confidence and downgrading the hope for a better future for our children. That is a fact.” – Rick Perry

  170. “The fact is that for nearly three years, President Obama has been downgrading American jobs, he’s been downgrading our standing in the world, he’s been downgrading our financial stability, he’s been downgrading our confidence and downgrading the hope for a better future for our children. ”

    Absolutely true. Every word.

    At least he hasn’t made it worse by asking his invisible friend for help on stage in front of the world.

  171. Agreed.

    I was thinking about Constitutional Amendments, tho…

    Hey, did you see how Ron Paul handled himself in the debates? Damn I like him! It’s too bad he looks like Tigger the Tiger; he’s unelectable but IMHO the only one in Washington with the slightest idea of what needs to be done and the balls to do it.

    But what do I know; I voted for Perot, too.

  172. Then stick with Obama. — Huck

    I’m just catching up on some old comments. Huck, really that was beneath you. Linking to a BS book about a supposedly gay, coke dealing, homicidal Obama. Sorry dude … you just forfeited the right to scold me about any trash talk vis-a-vis Sarah Palin.

  173. “I’m just catching up on some old comments. Huck, really that was beneath you. Linking to a BS book about a supposedly gay, coke dealing, homicidal Obama. Sorry dude … you just forfeited the right to scold me about any trash talk vis-a-vis Sarah Palin.”

    Sorry, but when you accused John McCain of calling his wife a cunt just because some guy wrote about it in a book, you gave up the right to lecture me about this.

  174. Interesting comments from an Op-ed piece at the Daily Beast. If this race was the Kentucky Derby I would place bets on Perry to win, place and show. People in times of crisis turn to religion and need an Elmer Gantry.

    “Rick Perry is not, in the main, a flip-flopper. But he takes “whatever it takes” to a whole ’nother level.

    Back in 1985 the Texas Legislature was crawling with ambitious young politicians—as was every legislature in America. Why would one man—albeit a handsome man with great hair and serious political skills—rise above the thousands of others? Not because of brains and not because of bipartisan appeal. Because he has the most important quality of all: the willingness to do whatever it takes.

    That’s truer than ever in relation to today’s Tea Party–dominated Republican Party. You’ve gotta be willing to do anything, say anything, accept anything, propose anything, endorse anything, pledge anything. There is nothing too bats–t for these people.

    The guy is Elmer Gantry. He could take over a conservative megachurch tomorrow and outpreach the pastor.”

  175. Rutherford, I am actually glad that you called me out on that comment. I forgot about leaving that bait for you.

    “John McCain called his wife a C-U-N-T.”

    Take a look at the comments, especially #14, where you state that a book citing an anonymous source gives more weight than an Internet rumor. You claim that books must certainly be reviewed by lawyers for slander and such. And, even give it weight because McCain has never commented on the event in question, suggesting that he should defend himself against every claim ever printed.

    The source I cited wrote a book. It was certainly reviewed by lawyers, right? He doesn’t rely on anonymous sources. And I’ve never heard Obama deny this claim, have you?

    Do I think this book is true?…No. But based on your own words…you should.

  176. “DR, are you close enough to hear that madness?”-Hucking

    No, I now live in the outer ring of the suburbs….practically not even a suburb. I will never live near the savages again.

    But, it’s funny you asked about hearing it. My buddy was complaining about hearing gun shots all weekend. His house is now worth 1,000 dollars but he won’t walk.

  177. Ron Paul and the libertarians need to wake up when it comes to foreign policy. I don’t request them to be hawks or neo-cons, but I don’t want them to be Utopian either.

    Whether Ron Paul likes or not, America fills a potential void of carnage and anarchy. Rigid isolationism would be devastating.

  178. lol….poor Rutherford…..It’s impossible for a guy like Rutherford to be consistent because ultimately he’s nothing more then a Dem shill.

    Sometimes he will contradict himself within the same day. sometimes you have to go back a few years. Whatever the case, he’s a great example of how one sells their own soul to lame ass politics.

  179. Except that MAD doesn’t work when you believe you can initiate the second coming through catastrophic chaos. MAD relies on rational actors, Ahmed Dinner-jacket ain’t so rational…

  180. I’m surprised the regulars here didn’t rip this abject idiocy.

    That’s truer than ever in relation to today’s Tea Party–dominated Republican Party. You’ve gotta be willing to do anything, say anything, accept anything, propose anything, endorse anything, pledge anything. There is nothing too bats–t for these people.

    So let me get this straight “Raj…” Obama is the man that sticks by his core principles? Dimocrats like Harry Reid and Nancy Mussolini shoot the straight scoop with the basic tenets? John McCain and the rest of the RINOs have a set plan and stick to their guns?

    Am I understanding your insinuation? Is that supposed to be parody?

    I hate to tell you rubes this, but the Tea Party, whether religious or not, are the only ones staying on message. Quit spending, and quit taxing period…

  181. At least he hasn’t made it worse by asking his invisible friend for help on stage in front of the world.

    Rained in Texas… :wink: Lots and lots of rain. Coincidence?

    You know what the best part of your PISS philosophy is Mr. Militant? I can sit here and throw rocks at your inflated, egotistical, and bloated head and you can’t answer. I hope you keep practicing because I’m actually loving it. Trust me on this and Rutherford will confirm from another militant of your ilk. It doesn’t work. And when they snap, it’s like a broke rubber band, as they go off speaking in tongues.. :smile:

    But I’ll ask the obvious anyway. So our invisible friend we ask for help?

    How’s that any different that you demanding we believe we just poofed into existence?

    About 85-90% of the world thinks it is you that is absolute nuts. But I would define it a little differently. It’s boyhood trauma from emotional arrested development. You’re screaming for help and approval you never received. Couldn’t be more obvious.

  182. They criticize and insult those who they most fear. ~ Rush Limbaugh.

    Correct. You’ll know who the best candidate for the Republicans is by who the libs go after most.

    I would kind of like a Perry/Romney ticket, or vice versa. Starting to sound pretty good, if they will put the ego aside when the better man wins.

  183. Stop coddling (the hypocrite) Warren Buffett

    http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/stop-coddling-warren-buffett

    More lib hypocrisydemocracy in action. No wonder Uncle Warren is a lib – kind of a George Soros lite.

    I never realized how much of Buffett’s wealth is due to enlarged government. He ought to team up with Pelosi’s husband. Warren has been milking the bucket for years, including teaming with Goldman Sachs.

    Another good article about Uncle Warren’s bullshit:

    http://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2011/08/15/warren-buffetts-fiscal-innumeracy/

  184. Mr. Rutherford, my good old liberal buddy.

    I know you probably hate my new gravatar.

    But even you have to admit that in your recent comment’s box, that gravatar is one of the more aesthetic jpegs ever constructed (by someone more talented than me – I stole it). The colors are perfect and clear. The clarity beautiful. The message and humor sound.

    There are some pretty talented graphic artists out there, and not all are of the lefty persuasion.

  185. Not that anyone even thinks about following Dead Rabbit investment advice, but BORK was a stinker…..minus 10% for the week. I sold for a loss…..

  186. West is scarier than Bachmann or Perry. He certainly speaks fluent neocon. Is that your candidate Gorilla? If so, that’s enough for me to know he ain’t the one we need. Islamophobia, the terror de jour, should never influence our rational decision making.

    Regarding Saudi Arabia and Sharia law. This isn’t new. This is the country we’ve been supporting with money and weapons for decades. You remember Bush kissing the royal Sauds, right? They have no problem being in bed with these radicals. They have probably supported more “terrorists” than any other Arab nation. Of course we liked Saddam when it was convenient, too.

    AFA public executions, I am against the death penalty. Making a public spectacle of it will have a greater impact than performing them behind closed doors. Isn’t the whole point of a death penalty to act as a deterrent? I would think a public display would be the most effective. Remember when folks were put in stocks for public ridicule? I’d like to see most of our “representatives” there along with their Fed and banker buddies. :cool:

  187. FTW:

    “Sorry, but when you accused John McCain of calling his wife a cunt just because some guy wrote about it in a book, you gave up the right to lecture me about this.” :lol: :lol: :lol:

  188. Man, you motherfuckers should see how many peaches I harvested off one tree I have in my backyard. They are not big peaches, but juicy and perfect. I didn’t even know they grew in Michigan.

    Baskets and baskets of perfect peaches.

    I thought the tree was toast, considering it was infested with ants. Come to find out, those ants protect the peaches better then any poison.

    Old lady is making peach cobbler, tonight.

  189. Tex, no insinuation meant!!! Just quoting what is out there in the “liberal” world and thought you would find it interesting that they think Rick Perry will do anything to become POTUS which means Perry is starting to get real attention.

    I would expect the regulars to rip it apart if I had said it. No parody intended. Have not said or ever would say Obama has stuck by his core principles. Do not put words in my mouth, save that for Jablome at M&H.

    So you don’t want any information at all posted on this blog regarding any liberal viewpoint be it right or wrong?

    In my small world, if I read something that may or may not effect me in the future I start researching the facts and history behind the information rather than take it at face value. Once upon a time way way back then, Communism was a big bad word. So I took it upon myself in college to put together a symposium to explain and teach my fellow students what communism meant to the USSR and the free world. I went so far as to rent the Fox Theater and included invited guests to speak pro and con. Fabulous attendance for a southern event. My grandfather on the other hand almost jerked me out of college :-)

    Moral of the story, don’t put words in my mouth that I did not say.

  190. Moral of the story, don’t put words in my mouth that I did not say

    I’m not. I read your post again and IMO you aren’t clear that is what is simply being reported or copied – it reads as if that could be your opinion. I understand now. If you’re offended, mea culpa.

    But don’t put words in my mouth. I love having the liberal viewpoint (why do you think I venture to some dimwitted dawg like Helen’s?), and you are certainly worthy and smart enough to post anything here that Rutherford allows. Not my blog and I generally enjoy your posts.

    You could save me having to go to Fat Grannies to get the liberal point. :smile:

    Pfesser is seldom correct about much, but he’s absolutely correct in verification that I go to Geriatric Granny U. just to shake the monkey cage and watch them bounce around, plus piss the fascists off to prove that they can neither block me or censure me without an inordinate amount of effort. That doesn’t hold for everyone there, of course. But I fully admit to Troll extraordinaire.

    But not here. These guys, yourself included, deserve better, and even if I’m the occasional asshole, I still enjoy the company here. I find virtually everyone here interesting and talented – Mr. Rutherford included.

  191. Damn, peach cobbler sounds good this minute.

    Rabbit, did you see I volunteered you as my representative in #168 to swing the bamboo shoot on the bare asses of the London rioters?

    I’ll expect the Babe Ruth swing from the heels.

  192. I’m slower then ever and play 1st base like shit but I’m hitting deeper homeruns then I ever have in my life….and more of them too.

    My homerun swing is the only thing that seems to be getting better with age.

  193. I’d hit them so hard in their asses their nut sacks would fall off.

    I’d actually pay to hear the crack of that shoot across their asses… :twisted:

    SOB would sound like a double sonic boom across those butt cheeks, followed by shrieks of absolute anguish. Then I’d walk over their naked nut sack as they wept and say, “One down. Thirty-nine more to go asshole.”

    Guaranteed they would die of a massive stroke right there.

    Probably a pretty good idea for a few Obama voters too. Take a few of those Fat Granny nags and knock the cellulite out of those fat f….ing thighs and max gluteus. Now those, I’d have to apply myself while I cackled with sadist rage at busting those big, fat, grotesque, pruned butt cheeks.

  194. @ #270

    “You could save me having to go to Fat Grannies to get the liberal point.” – Tex

    What!! And have you kill the messenger :l0l:

    Yeah, I know I need to learn how to do the “italics thingy”

  195. The symbolic irony of this is to this Administration is, well, fitting.

    ‘Yes We Can’ social club busted for drugs, prostitution…
    Bel-Ridge, Mo (KSDK) — St. Louis County police will release more information this afternoon about 30 people were taken into custody from a home in Bel-Ridge last week.
    They were taken into custody shortly before midnight on August 11.
    Police said they went to a home in the 8800 block of Snowhill Court to execute a search warrant for prostitution, drugs and alcohol.

  196. Last year, Seattle Mayor Mike McGinn announced the city had won a coveted $20 million federal grant to invest in weatherization. The unglamorous work of insulating crawl spaces and attics had emerged as a silver bullet in a bleak economy – able to create jobs and shrink carbon footprint – and the announcement came with great fanfare.

    McGinn had joined Vice President Joe Biden in the White House to make it. It came on the eve of Earth Day. It had heady goals: creating 2,000 living-wage jobs in Seattle and retrofitting 2,000 homes in poorer neighborhoods.

    But more than a year later, Seattle’s numbers are lackluster. As of last week, only three homes had been retrofitted and just 14 new jobs have emerged from the program. Many of the jobs are administrative, and not the entry-level pathways once dreamed of for low-income workers. Some people wonder if the original goals are now achievable.

    http://www.komonews.com/news/local/127844048.html

  197. Gorilla, you stole my link (above)!

    (great minds think alike)

    The dude does look like Thelonious.

  198. I wasn’t going after you, Tex. I was actually kind of surprised to read they were going on at all. My point was that they aren’t getting any western news coverage that I have seen.

  199. Plus, protests about home prices can be used to justify more settlements!

    You mean to the Jordan? :wink:

  200. Sorry I’ve been absent. Yesterday was very busy and today the bad gut came back to haunt me and basically nuked my morning.

    I was dreading the emergence of Perry as I didn’t want to see us wasting time on another bad joke candidate … BUT …

    To my surprise, I’m finding Perry very entertaining. Obama would definitely have to change his game plan to debate Perry. The professorial approach will not work with him.

    BTW :lol: Huck you got me dude on the McCain c*nt answer. I was hoist upon my own pitard. Brav-f*ckin-o! :-)

  201. Ok, R, I googled the phrase and still can’t figure it out. I’ve gathered its from Hamlet.

    What does it mean?

  202. Food stamps stimulate the economy.

    You know you’re a failed president when your administration is spinning that classic.

    Maybe it will be one of Obama’s talking points in the debate?

    I bet you food stamps stimulate big banks. Every swipe of that bridge card is being administered by somebody.

    A new federal program started in Detroit schools. All kids, yes all kids, now get a free lunch.

    The reasoning?

    Its embarrassing to get a free lunch.

    But here is the ironic part. Only schools with more then 40 percent of kids on free lunch can get the fed dollars.

  203. I beg to differ with Huck. The Wikipedia definition is more in line with my understanding:

    A petard was a small bomb used to blow up gates and walls when breaching fortifications.

    Hence, DR, when the bomb blows prematurely, it hoists its owner into the air.

    Bottom line … it’s equivalent to my saying ‘Damn, shot with my own gun.” I was defeated with my own argument.

  204. Huck, I’m really confused … your source agrees with Wiki:

    The key word is “mines,” as in “land mines,” for that’s what a petard is (or “petar,” as Shakespeare puts it — people couldn’t spell any better then than now). A small explosive device designed to blow open barricaded doors and gates, the petard was a favorite weapon in Elizabethan times.

  205. I can see some of you are still on your meds. It’s that confidence with big pharma, educated white coats, and the unyielding truth of marketing that keeps you going along with the flow…. smooooooooth ride, baby….pleasant dreams…

  206. Guess Poolman didn’t read my link. He wouldn’t understand it anyway.

    But our resident PA lovin’ Israel hater and water merchant would have you to believe Jews are burning themselves in the streets over their government. Not quite Einstein.

    In fact, it reads like those Israelis you hate and are “despised by God” have a far better economy going than that giant you voted for as President in 2008 to lead us to the promised land. How’s that worked out for you and Scottsdale personally?

    Da Chickens – have come home – to rrrrooooooooosssssttttt.

  207. I was dreading the emergence of Perry as I didn’t want to see us wasting time on another bad joke candidate … BUT …

    You’ll think the joke is on you when I flash Perry’s record of successes vs. Obama’s record of abysmal failure. This is a no brainer of a vote – and I can promise you Perry is a far more polished politician than the blue blood Bush family (who still admire). I’ve noticed you have a talent for identifying the most threatening – and I fully expect you to come out blazing on Perry. Perry is you’re worst nightmare – Conservative, wonderful life story, religious. A real liberal “devil”. Pfesser’s already gone off the deep end with his childhood traumatized fear of “theocracy.” Who knew Tejas had become a theocracy. :roll:

    Sorry to hear about the G.I. I’ve been meaning to ask you if you had been feeling any better – and I figured you had since you hadn’t mentioned it recently.

    Also been meaning to ask you how’s the digs? You haven’t been around much the last several weeks, maybe months, and I lose track of your place.

    Let me know. I’m interested in what is going on.

  208. * Socialism, communism, fascism, and totalitarianism.









    * – If you’re one of the chosen few. Like Obama. :wink: For the general populace, good luck getting an answer.

  209. In his inaugural address 2 1/2 years ago, President Obama called for a “new era of responsibility.” Yet lately, his main goal in life seems to be escaping any responsibility for the lousy economy.

    It’s getting so you have to keep a list of everyone and everything Obama wants to blame for the anemic economic recovery. . . .

    Just to be clear, Obama’s policies alone are to blame for the current sorry state of the economy.

    In his first two years, Obama had free rein to get his economic agenda through a heavily Democratic Congress: An $830 billion stimulus, billions more in auto bailouts, mortgage bailouts and cash for clunkers, ObamaCare and Dodd-Frank.

    None of those packages worked. They produced the worst recovery since the Great Depression. That was true before the Arab Spring, the tsunami, Europe’s debt crisis and before Republicans won back the House.

    At a press conference this summer, Obama said: “I’m not interested in finger-pointing.”

    But that’s all he’s been doing for months.

    ….

    http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/581657/201108161838/The-Dog-Ate-My-Recovery.aspx?src=IBDDAE

  210. Rutherford
    Just for “shits and giggles” check out the reason Perry’s nickname was “crotch” when he first entered politics.
    Why he’s just a good ole boy ;-)

    I understand Obama is traveling the country in his luxury motorhome to the tune of 2.4M to connect with the American people. Of course this would not be considered “campaigning” would it now?

  211. Tex: re: your link on #317

    Apparently Obama forgot that the motto of POTUS is supposed to be”the buck stops here”

  212. What could make the Misery Bus tour even more memorable? Well, this:

    WASHINGTON — President Obama is barnstorming the heartland to boost US jobs in a taxpayer-financed luxury bus the government had custom built — in Canada, The Post has learned.

  213. Obama is so out of touch with reality that, on the same day it was discovered that his million-dollar campaign tour bus was made in Canada, he gave a speech saying he wants to be able to sell Fords in foreign countries and wants to see “Made in America” stamped on products all around the world.

  214. “Stuff like this is why I likely would not vote for Rick Perry in any election.

    We need to find someone else.”

    Hallelujah! Can I get a witness?!

  215. Rick Perry needs to read a little Santayana:

    “What religion a man shall have is a historical accident, quite as much as what language he shall speak.”

    Perry didn’t choose Christianity because it is the One True Religion – or choose it at all. The only reason that he’s not a devout Mussleman is that he happened to be born in America instead of Somalia.

  216. Yeah. Great point. He shouldn’t be allowed to claim it unless he invented it. :roll: Pfffft. Poseur.

    How does Obama’s so-called faith fit into this?

  217. Hey. Wait a minute. If Perry were born in Somalia he might be a devout “musselman” but he couldn’t be POTUS either. . . :lol:

    (well shit, I guess if Obama can, a Somalian could too. . .)

  218. Pfesser’s of the opinion America is a secular nation. He is wrong, as usual. America is not founded on secular belief. It’s founded on a belief of freedom of worship, including the belief of not practicing at all. And there is a huge difference between the two.

    While Pfesser may be highly educated, he’s also superficially sophisticated as are so many white collar professionals I meet. It’s the reason you meet so many with plenty of dough and a ton of woe. They may be the most miserable people on earth – at least that has been my experience.

    Pfesser’s favorite and stupid response,”of first you’ll have to prove all other religions are false”, he apparently considers wise. Why? That’s certainly not necessary for any other false claims or testing. You don’t prove the existence of God by the scientific method but by the evidentiary method. Then it becomes crystal clear.

    Like multiple choice questions on a test, there is only one right answer. When the answers are compared to each other and their validity measured, one clearly is correct.

    But to a moral relativist, all opinions are of equal value, except his of course. :roll:

    Problem is, Pfesser and to a lesser degree Huck, the latter who is not purposely obnoxious in his disdain of Christian faith unlike the former, still don’t recognize they are a loud but insignificant demographic when it comes to a popular vote, as the vast majority of American still believes in a God, and a vast majority of those claiming God call God Jesus. Even a shill like Obama recognizes that much.

  219. There was a time when every person on the planet thought that the earth was the center of the universe. That it was popular belief didn’t make it any less wrong.

    My point is…I don’t care what other people believe. I don’t base my beliefs on what is popular. I base them on what makes sense to me. And theology doesn’t.

    I fully recognize that I might be who is wrong. But it is what it is.

  220. Huck’s statement on religion is perfectly phrased. He and I could be wrong but at this point there is insufficient evidence to believe that God is calling the shots on anything.

    I shook my head with great sadness the other day when Rabbit hoped God would watch over the families of the SEAL team that died in Afghanistan. What was God doing when they died a fiery horrific death that would make you think He gives a damn about their families?

    I guess God is like Obama — doesn’t have to take reponsibility for anything. ;-)

  221. Dead men tell no tales, matey.

    Damn, it’s humid out here in the Sonoran desert right now! 111 was the last temp I saw on my truck’s display. Wish I had a pool to jump in. Bummer. Nice 78 here in my office, though. That helps.

    It was a blessed day. All my parking places were shaded. :cool:

    So you think Rick’s the guy we need running this ship, eh Tex? I really haven’t done much research on him, myself. He is sweet on Israel. He’s probably got a star of David tattoo somewhere.

    I sure wish Ron Paul stood a chance to get elected. He’s the only one actively wanting to take down the crooks. With almost half of folks that do work working for the government we got a slim chance of scaling that iceberg down, IMO.

  222. My point is…I don’t care what other people believe.

    I find you an honest guy Huck and think you need to rephrase that. You very much care what people believe – and you obviously care what Rick Perry believes.

    If he carries the right message with the right programs and reforms, and he has a very effective past record which Perry does, then you should lend Perry the courtesy to worship as he wishes Huck without the bigotry.

    Does Texas look like a theocracy at this minute? What’s your beef? Reagan was very open about his faith in Christ.

    And as far as all people believing the earth the center of the universe, that’s not true either and hasn’t been since at least 400 B.C. That’s a myth along the same lines as flat earthers. In 1543 Copernicus, a Polish monk, had published Revolutions of the Celestial Orbs, which had advanced the theory of heliocentrism which was received favorably by the Pope.

    The battle between Galileo and the later Pope and his staff, no matter how wrong the Pope was both scriptural and physically, was still two Christians disagreeing about the physical make up of the universe.

    Never forget Galileo called Christ Lord even unto the day he died. Somehow that part gets lost in the rest of the story…

  223. I shook my head with great sadness the other day when Rabbit hoped God would watch over the families of the SEAL team that died in Afghanistan. What was God doing when they died a fiery horrific death that would make you think He gives a damn about their families?

    The same thing he was doing when He allowed His son (His own physical manifestation) to be brutally hung on a cross and die for other’s imperfections. He’s still in control Rutherford and I don’t think you have a clue. :smile:

    I’m just wondering how you are going to answer when you stand before Him and suddenly realize everything you were, are and will ever be was due only to Him – and you denied His very existence. But one thing I am absolutely sure – you won’t be defiant and rebellious.

    But I understand your frustration and your arrogance. For 400 years, I am sure the Jews of antiquity stood as slaves to Egyptians as God appeared to remain silent and innocents were slaughtered. I’m sure the Holocaust victims thought the same. I’m sure even 1st century Christians had a crisis of faith at one time or another.

    You’re arrogant enough to think man sovereign. I don’t pretend to understand the mind of God or how He works. But I am absolutely sure nothing is beyond Him, nor does anything surprise Him. One death is required of us all…

  224. I’m reading a very interesting book Rutherford. One full of blatant racism and the powerful using the weak. Ever heard of Henrietta Lacks? If you haven’t heard of her, bet you’ve heard of her legacy.

    HELA cells – two letters of her first and last name. Immortal cell lines that have been used to create the polio vaccine, map the human genome, all kinds of medical advances. A poor black, uneducated woman – dead for 60 years now. Family never received a dime for her troubles and most of her legacy don’t even have the money to receive health care today.

    And I’ll bet you money at this moment, Henrietta Lacks wouldn’t trade her place in history for the richest men who ever lived. But I don’t think you could possibly understand what I’m saying. Who is rich now?

  225. “You very much care what people believe – and you obviously care what Rick Perry believes.”

    I am confident, Tex, that you know precisely what I meant. But to clarify….

    I don’t allow the beliefs of others to influence my belief.

    Better?

    “…you should lend Perry the courtesy to worship as he wishes Huck without the bigotry.”

    I absolutely give Rick Perry, and anyone else who keeps it within the law of the land, the courtesy to worship how he sees fit.

    The courtesy that I will not give is for a person in a leadership role over me to use prayer as a substitute for action. Yes, I know Perry asked people to pray for rain and he doesn’t have control over that. But look at his official statement that I linked. He also mentioned economics and such. That’s his realm…not God’s.

    “Does Texas look like a theocracy at this minute? What’s your beef? Reagan was very open about his faith in Christ.”

    Reagan didn’t pray us out of Carter’s recession, did he?

    “And as far as all people believing the earth the center of the universe, that’s not true either and hasn’t been since at least 400 B.C. ”

    You are going a bit overboard on literalism, aren’t you? Again. let me clarify my point so it isn’t lost in a semantic battle.

    For centuries it was popular belief that the earth was the center of the universe. Maybe it wasn’t “everyone on earth,” but it was certainly a belief held by many who contemplated it until it was scientifically proven to be false. And enough to be considered “popular belief.”

    And if you don’t like that example I am sure that I can come up with many other examples of prior popular belief that has since been proven false.

  226. And if you don’t like that example I am sure that I can come up with many other examples of prior popular belief that has since been proven false.

    I’m sure you could too. Obama being only the most recent example. :wink:

    I think you misunderstood my main point Huck. All of these men you have quoted have been self-professed Christians – fallible, imperfect Christians.

    However, Christians are told to pray unceasingly. Perry is actually being true to his faith. You can hate him for it, mock him for it, believe we are praying to our “imaginary friend” as Pfesser likes to call it. But what you can’t mock Perry for is walking the walk.

    Actually, Reagan many times asked America for prayer – especially for himself. For instance, Reagan waged an openly spiritual campaign against communism. That’s one nice thing about getting older. You were there.

    I just think you’re better than Pfesser and that comment from above was somewhat out of character for you. Perry is far from a perfect candidate – and the verdict is still out. He would be my candidate of choice right now, but I still reserve the right to hear him out and change my mind.

    The best, most accurate comment made in this entire campaign so far has been by Mitt Romney. “No matter which candidate is chosen here tonight, all are more capable than Barack Obama.”

  227. “Actually, Reagan many times asked America for prayer – especially for himself. For instance, Reagan waged an openly spiritual campaign against communism.”

    I don’t have the time or inclination to research the validity of that statement. But the words”Jesus Christ, tear down this wall” just don’t sound very familiar to me.

    But seriously…I can’t say how I’d have felt about that 30 years ago. And frankly, I don’t care. Ronald Reagan is not running for president right now. Rick Perry is. And right now I am not interested in someone who will use prayer as a part of policy, which Rick Perry seems to do to some extent. Even at the most minute level, that is still too much for me.

    “But what you can’t mock Perry for is walking the walk.”

    I don’t believe that I have mocked him. I have tried to be very respectful and I think I have made a very valid point and substantiated it with evidence that concerns me. As you surely recall, I expressed that concern days ago. That wasn’t a setup like I do with Rutherford. It was genuine.

    I just don’t think Rick Perry is the guy I want to lead us and I’d like to find another qualified person to guide us out of the pit Obama has put us in.

  228. I will even further clarify because I know this is an understandably touchy subject.

    I don’t have the slightest issue with the president praying to God for strength, wisdom, etc. I would expect that from a person of faith.

    But when that prayer starts asking God to help rebuild communities and such, that’s where I draw the line. Perhaps you find this position disrespectful, as it does not give sovereignty over all things to God, but as I said before…things like that are man’s realm…not God’s

    It’s up to leaders to rebuild communities, just like it is going to be up to leaders to rebuild our country. And it should be done with action..not prayer.

  229. That’s fine Huck. Knowing a little of you, I can understand you wanting someone else to lead us. That is certainly your prerogative.

    But Reagan was most definitely a man of deep faith. Reagan taught Sunday school in church at the age of 15.

    In addition, Reagan always private prayers before Cabinet meetings. And then there were the prayers with families of Marines who died in battle. Ronald Reagan also was a close associate of Billy Graham. The sign on Reagan’s desk in the Oval Office read, “There is no limit to what a man can do or where he can go if he doesn’t mind who gets the credit.”

    But more than that, Michael Reagan, who I believe would know his father better than anybody here, has stated that prayer was a large part of his upbringing, initiated by his father, and to this day, Michael’s Evangelical influence was due to his father.

  230. Perhaps you find this position disrespectful, as it does not give sovereignty over all things to God, but as I said before…things like that are man’s realm…not God’s.

    I don’t find it disrespectful, though you may find my response disrespectful. And it is not meant to be.

    I don’t think you have a clue to what Christian’s are supposed to believe, and the instructions of how they are to carry themselves Huck. While I believe you are a bright guy Huck, your knowledge of Christianity is almost non-existent and based from humanist dogma. I think many times you speak and formulate your opinions out of sheer ignorance. And that is not meant to offend but to inform. For a guy that apparently has a great intellectual curiosity and is pretty good at his interest, you miss the most interesting intellectual experience of them all.

    That is the essence of the Christian message Huck. God is sovereign over everything. No need for me to document as much, as that could cover at least 1/3 of the Bible.

    It’s up to leaders to rebuild communities, just like it is going to be up to leaders to rebuild our country. And it should be done with action..not prayer.

    But that’s not contradictory to the Christian message. Faith without works is dead. Real Christians aren’t ask God to do it for us – we’re asking for guidance of how to accomplish these tasks according to His will.

    If it’s not obvious to you, no matter your belief, that the basic problem today is that the basic building block of our communities is failing – namely family, whether it due to greed, corruption, sloth, irresponsibility, or a host of other ills, then I’m afraid I won’t be able to convince you our problems are of a spiritual nature and everything else manifested from this is secondary. Failed schools, dishonest businessmen, corrupt leadership.

  231. Faith and prayer is not my issue. Prayer before a meeting…prayer with military families suffering loss…prayer with famous evangelists. I have no issue whatsoever with any of that.

    None of those things is integrating faith and prayer with policy and needed action. Saying a “private prayer” before a cabinet meeting is one thing. Calling for prayer while the meeting is going on and asking God for help with domestic and foreign polices would be something else, entirely.

  232. This conversation reminds me of Jake Tapper’s interview with Michele Bachmann. Tapper asked Bachmann about her assertion that God told her whom to marry, what profession to pursue and even to run for President. Tapper asked her if God would influence her domestic and foreign policy. His valiant attempt to be respectful prevented him from asking the question that was really on his mind: “Ms. Bachmann are you a lunatic who hears voices in your head?”

    Tex as religious as the average American is (and I don’t deny this) no sane American wants a President who will bomb Russia ‘cos God told them to.

  233. “Real Christians aren’t ask God to do it for us – we’re asking for guidance of how to accomplish these tasks according to His will.”

    But that’s not what Rick Perry did. He wasn’t asking for guidance, he was asking for intervention. “Bring rain so we can fix our communities and return to our way of life.” At least that is how I read it. I can understand a prayer for the beginning and the end of that. As I have said all along, its the middle portion that bothers me. I don’t want our leaders relying on God to help them fix stuff.

    “If it’s not obvious to you, no matter your belief, that the basic problem today is that the basic building block of our communities is failing – namely family, whether it due to greed, corruption, sloth, irresponsibility, or a host of other ills, then I’m afraid I won’t be able to convince you our problems are of a spiritual nature and everything else manifested from this is secondary. Failed schools, dishonest businessmen, corrupt leadership.”

    I just don’t think faith is a prerequisite of those qualities. My wife and I are not spiritual, yet we have a loving marriage of almost 22 years. We have raised our children as a family, instilled in them family values and have discouraged greed, sloth, corruption, and irresponsibility.

    And I am not offended by my theological ignorance being pointed out. I would be the first to admit that I am not versed in the subject. All I can say is that what little I do know…the basics, like essences and virgin births and such…just don’t make sense to me. I was raised in a relatively spiritual household. But I was fairly young when I began to find myself not caring for the answers I was receiving to my questions. I don’t really know why, because as we have discussed before…the science I believe in requires faith, as well. Theology just doesn’t do it for me.

  234. And now at the risk of derailing this very nice conversation, I will point out that there are Muslims who also think that the problems in their areas are due to a spiritual void.

  235. This is some messed up shit, right here…

    “In early March some of the guys went to the museum of Fine Arts for a fund-raiser and got to hang with President Barack Obama. Everyone was a little bit in awe. The President turns to Ray [Allen], points at Rondo, and says, “Hey, Ray, why don’t you teach this kid how to shoot?” Everyone starts laughing.
    […]
    KG told me he saw the look on Rondo’s face and the kid was devastated, embarrassed. Dissed by the President, even though I’m sure Obama didn’t mean any harm. Rondo smiled and went along with all of it, but KG told me he could see it in his eyes. It bothered Rondo. It killed him.

    The next day Rondo shot the ball horribly. He stopped taking shots after that. He’s so sensitive. I think it was a real jolt to hear the outside perception of a basketball fan who happens to be the President of the United States. It messed with his mind. I’m sure of it.”

    I don’t care if the guy can’t shoot. That’s just rude and, as usual, unpresidential.

    And I too am sure Obama didn’t mean any harm. Elitists never do when they are shitting on someone. It’s just all in good fun.

    That is, until it comes time for them to be the joke. Then the jokes aren’t funny anymore.

  236. Rutherford –

    re: reasonableness of Perry’s beliefs and his fitness for office. Found on the Internet several years ago, I’ve never seen it expressed better.

    “Someone who believes that a guy fathered himself in order to send himself to earth in order to kill himself in order to appease himself for the very sins to which he himself convicted mankind as retribution for having fallen for a trick effected through the agency of a TALKING SNAKE doesn’t get to call other people’s beliefs “ridiculous”.”

  237. “I don’t really know why, because as we have discussed before…the science I believe in requires faith, as well. Theology just doesn’t do it for me.”

    Huck – there is a VERY big difference. As an electrical engineer, I have never seen an electron or rolled one across the table, but I have faith they exist, but that is a very different kind of faith.

    Why? It is a faith based on evidence. I can do experiment after experiment and they always work exactly the same way. I use equipment every day that requires electricity and it always works. I fly an airplane that burns fuel by an electric spark and it always works the same way. No matter how often I do any electrical experiment, it always works and always the same way.

    Whether gods exist or not is irrelevant, because things that happen don’t depend in the least on one’s relationship with his invisible friend. Bad things happen to good and bad people at random; there is not a shred of evidence of any outside interference in anything we do. So arguing whether gods exist is moot. If they exist they do not interfere, so don’t waste your time.

  238. None of those things is integrating faith and prayer with policy and needed action. Saying a “private prayer” before a cabinet meeting is one thing. Calling for prayer while the meeting is going on and asking God for help with domestic and foreign polices would be something else, entirely.

    I don’t see there’s a hoot’s worth of difference. In fact, a public expression of faith is putting it on the line. It forces Perry to raise himself to a higher standard IMO.

    As far as intervention, unlike Al Gore, I don’t think man can control the weather Huck. Whom would you recommend Perry and Co. ask to intervene? Again Huck, Perry is only doing exactly as Jesus instructed us to do. You’re welcome to disagree, but I think you hold a double standard when you immediately eliminate a man not for his record, but for his faith.

    And of course, real Muslims, those that believe in the sovereignty of Allah, would believe the same about intervention and the void. Contrary to what you might think Huck, I don’t question practicing Muslim’s sincerity in their beliefs. And that is exactly why I find their religion so dangerous. I understand the power of ‘religion’, for both good and for evil, better than you do Huck.

  239. I just don’t think faith is a prerequisite of those qualities. My wife and I are not spiritual, yet we have a loving marriage of almost 22 years. We have raised our children as a family, instilled in them family values and have discouraged greed, sloth, corruption, and irresponsibility.

    It’s not. There’s some very fine families that have no belief in faith that I know myself. I’m not treating my faith as some magic bullet or cure all. Christ made no promises that sincere Christian belief led to trouble free life, and in fact, told us that if our belief real, we would be attacked for it. My children were raised in a Christian home, attending nothing but Catholic schools, and they are in no way perfect because their old man is as far from perfect as they come. That wasn’t the purpose of why they attended Christian schools.

    But that doesn’t change the fact that I am sure my statement is still true. I still believe your family the exception to the rule.

    One of the reasons you see so many churches, or at least some of its members making asses of themselves or preaching heresy, or acting like idiots, or practicing the world’s most insidious of hypocrisies is because they are and they do. :neutral: Churches are like magnets for some of society’s worst offenders and biggest hypocrites.

    But churches attract the sick because they provide a measure of hope that somebody like and your family can’t. I don’t think anybody of sound mind can deny the works of the church in providing a cornerstone, a building block, a stability to our nation and its families.

    If I am wrong, why do so many of society’s worst offenders run to churches as a last resort? Because they realize that?

  240. So arguing whether gods exist is moot. If they exist they do not interfere, so don’t waste your time.

    Except millions of us know better. And we don’t refer to it as “interference.” We call it a blessing. Only a deluded man would spend so much time arguing about something that supposedly does not exist. If you were that confident in your own argument, you wouldn’t spend such time trying to convince the rest of us. You’re not even particularly effective in your argument. Your arrogance thinking you’re in control is even somewhat humorous, and I’m not completely convinced even you’re convinced of your arguments.

    This is a battle you are guaranteed to lose Pfesser. And I suppose as a self-professed Christian, I should mourn your emptiness. But in your case, you’re so grotesque in your style, so militant in your stance, so empty and unedifying in your rhetoric, and so clearly my real enemy, that I can’t overcome my human frailty – and I will rejoice at your demise. I don’t feel that way about Rutherford nor Huck. That’s something I need to work on.

    But I doubt very few will mourn your absence when you are gone, including most of your extended family. In fact, I am sure of it.

  241. Into the Collosium!!!

    :smile: Sorry Gorilla. After being the one that made the suggestion to create the Coliseum, I am the first to forget it exists. Agreed. I promise, unless challenged, to move there.

    And I would have had I seen your comment before starting my post. :wink:

  242. Gorilla,

    I have a question about Afghanistan. What’s your feeling about still being there? I’d be interested in getting an opinion of somebody actually fighting the fight.

    I ask because this week, my lowly populated state has lost eight young men, all but one to IEDs. Has the battle heated up, or are we in danger of falling into the ‘Iraq’ trap of fighting with one hand behind our back again?

    I guess my question is what is the end game?

  243. Whoever in the White House decided on another first family vacation at Martha’s Vineyard must be unhinged, coming as it does (a) after previous jaunts to places like Vail and Costa del Sol, and serial golf outings; (b) in the midst of tough economic times and bipartisan acknowledgment that national cutbacks for the vast majority of Americans are in order; (c) on the heels of three years of class warfare and anti-wealth demagoguery of the “fat-cat,” “unneeded income,” “spread the wealth” sort; and (d) during a presidential approval slide that seems to be based, at least in part, on the fact that the president’s usual rhetoric has nothing to do with reality, that he suggests one thing while doing quite another.

    If the president thought that a campaign bus tour would rescue his numbers, he was mistaken — it seems to have had the opposite effect, perhaps because it seemed staged, almost like what a wealthy person would do if he wanted to act “real” for a bit.

    But if President Obama has already purchased the new bus, why not use it Winnebago-style to see America with his family for a week, visiting a national park, a closed-down plant — or a real vineyard? ~ VDH

  244. Comment of the day. :lol:

    Two questions about the bus:
    1) Were the tires properly inflated?
    2) Did anyone check in case someone had been thrown under it?

  245. I am not a religious man at all. But I certainly don’t have problem with our elected officials, especially the POTUS, believing that he is accountable to a higher power in the exercise of his authority — as did a large number of our Founding Fathers and supposedly all democratic presidents in recent memory.

    PF, trying to twist this into theocratic tendencies is just stupid. Your attacking christianity in particular and religion generally, is just that. There is no true threat to our American democracy. Can we cut the shit please?

  246. “PF, trying to twist this into theocratic tendencies is just stupid. Your attacking christianity in particular and religion generally, is just that.”

    Nonsense. Nobody is doing anything of the sort.

    “There is no true threat to our American democracy.”

    Not a serious, game-changing one, no – not yet. But there is surely a lot of nibbling around the edges, which bears watching and immediate challenge when it occurs.

    “Can we cut the shit please?”

    Right back at-cha.

  247. You sir have explicitly used the term “theocracy.” You have also directly attacked christianity and religion generally in even your most recent comments.

    What do you mean you are doing nothing of the sort?

  248. I agree. Cut the shit. There is no threat. If anything, these protestant types are famous for their damn work ethic.

    Rutherford reads a little post I wrote about the fallen Navy SEALs and what “saddens” him?

    The fact I brought up God!

  249. I guess where you stand depends on where you sit.

    From my perspective, it would appear that religions of all sorts have become so inured to never being criticized and always getting a free pass that they interpret legitimate criticism as attack.

    I think we have nearly all on this blog criticized black folks for exactly the same unreasonable sensitivity – calling it “PC.” You know – nobody dares criticise a black man for fear of being called racist and you can’t criticise religion for the same reason. Utter nonsense – nobody is immune from criticism.

    Religion should be held to the same standards as anything else. Even those who hold themselves out as being “not religious” tread lightly around the subject. It’s time that be called to a halt. As far as I am concerned, everybody gets treated the same – whether it be beliefs on monetary policy, socialism, the military – or superstition. It’s all fair game – no quarter asked and none given. And when we are talking about people who want to be President, the hard questions need to be asked – there is no place for being fastidious or polite – the stakes are too high to play nice.

    If someone who is running for President *really* thinks he hears voices and they give him orders, then he is de facto unqualified for high office. I can’t see how there can be any discussion on that; IMHO the fact that there is room for discussion just shows how deep this nuttiness has insinuated itself into the American fabric.

    And there is serious consideration to giving these people nuclear weapon codes? No wonder the rest of the world – including our allies – are terrified of us.

  250. Huck,

    “Just nibbling at the edges of theocracy” here. I actually enjoy these conversations with you. I have no problem with people of no belief and enjoy the give and take. Keeps me honest and I learn something in the process. I believe with all my heart you are wrong, but I would not be honest if I did not say I too look up at the heavens and ask, “Can you just whisper in my ear to be absolutely sure?” Doesn’t happen.

    I have a big problem with fascists attacking those that do believe. You, Gorilla, Tigre, and most of the time Mr. Rutherford are not of that group.

    And Tigre and Rabbit. Thanks.

    Much of what is driving this Pfesser indirect attack is that perhaps for the first time in his blogging life, Pfesser met somebody that he couldn’t bully with his ‘profound’ intellect and his wit, believing he could shut me up. Didn’t work, nor will it work. It’s a bitter pill to swallow – one that was on the opposite side of the spectrum, that could be every bit as nasty, and Pfesser’s not dealing well with it. :smile:

  251. Perry is only doing exactly as Jesus instructed us to do.

    Oh really? I read His recorded words in Matthew chapter 6:

    “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.”

  252. Frankly, I don’t know why we’re there. I know why we SHOULD be there, but what this Administration is actually focused on, well, it’s beyond me.

    What I do know is that the second we leave, the government of Afghanistan will fall and the Taliban will sweep back into power. Al-Qaida will move back into Afghanistan in larger numbers as well as maintain their safehaven in the tribal areas of Pakistan. I think it would not take long to see some sort of transnational operation emanating out of the Pakistan/Afghanistan region shortly thereafter, probably going after Europe but certainly maintaining their focus on the US as well.

    At some point, we’ll have to sit back and assess what is an acceptable level of risk from al-Qaida. Personally, I think we are still at as level that is beyond what is acceptable.

    What I do know is this as well, this Administration is pretty petty when it comes to the use of force. The threat of civilian casualties and human rights abuses was always going to be higher in Syria than in Libya, plus, our interests lie in seeing Syria fall. Plus, consider the precedent we set: Libya, after seeing Saddam fall comes forward- of their own volition- and turns over a CBRN capability that exceeds what we knew. They actually work towards improving their relations with the West, and so we throw them under the bus because someone wants to score quick foreign policy points and what he thought was low-hanging fruit. How many months have we been there again?

    Mean while, in Syria where literally hundreds, likely thousands, of people have been brutally abused and killed protested a dictator who actually threatens regional peace. This Administrations reaction? Praise and a pat on the back, until the violence got so bad that Clinton and Obama could no longer turn a blind eye. Why? Because of Iran and the knowledge that dealing with Syria would be hard. Heaven forbid this Administration do something in the US interest, as opposed to their own interests…

  253. You should fear the dominionists. They have had a “new revelation” of a “seven mountain” plan of take over and dominate the world system. It IS their agenda to control the seven “areas of power” in our world. This is not fantasy. I’d have to look it up again to get all seven. Politic, Education, Business, etc…

    They claim that is regaining control for God and God’s people. Of course, not realizing we are ALL God’s people, though many don’t yet know it. This is an active movement and there are many players working toward that end. What makes that any different than Sharia? You think there won’t be persecution? Think again.

  254. “At some point, we’ll have to sit back and assess what is an acceptable level of risk from al-Qaida. Personally, I think we are still at as level that is beyond what is acceptable.”

    That our protectors suddenly think they have AQ whipped makes AQ even more of a threat.

  255. Poolman, actually I think you and Pfesser pretty close in nature. Much closer than you would like to believe.

    Pfesser is just a smarter version than you, and actually is far more rational with respect to the plight of Israel, amongst other things. Even he gets that much. I’m sure you were delighted yesterday when the Egypt ‘Arab spring’ opened fire on buses, killing seven. Filthy Jews – pigs and monkeys, right? You will note until your idiocy, I hadn’t even made mention.

    Using your strict definition from the Sermon on the Mount, we would never open Congress or Church with prayer, nor ever make a public admission of faith, nor ever ask God to intercede on America’s behalf. We would need to do away with Chaplains and priests in the military, and never, ever end any speech with God Bless America. In fact, hymns of worship would need to be discarded. Christ would have criticized Joseph, Moses, Joshua and Caleb, all of the prophets including Daniel and Isaiah, David, John the Baptist, Paul, and all eleven remaining apostles – all who made public admissions of both faith and prayer.

    Your interpretation is along the same lines of “judge not, lest ye be judged” meaning nobody can possibly cast a single judgment of right or wrong, therefore never being able to discern.

    You’re nothing more than a heretic with a religious twist.

    Just so you might one day understand which I doubt, Christ was not condemning the Pharisee for his public prayer. He was criticizing the insincerity of the public display – much like the pandering TV evangelists of our day.

  256. Afghanistan is a quagmire that we should never have gotten involved in. We knew that. We saw what happened to other occupiers there. We don’t ever learn from history and have been doomed to repeat it. It will go back to rule by the Talibs, and that’s already happening. Of course Reagan praised the Talibs for their religious zeal and moral standards. THEY haven’t changed. It just doesn’t fit the narrative for today.

    Al Qaeda, the fabricated boogeyman, will continue to raise it’s head as cued by the CIA that made them. We need them to keep this “war” ongoing. Expect more “reasons” to keep it ongoing soon.

    Iraq had “targets” we could hit. Iraq was on the agenda before Afghanistan, even before the new Pearl Harbor event. We have created way more enemies because of our involvement over there. And this has been good for whom?

  257. I was just telling my wife yesterday that a perfect storm is brewing in the Levant.

    So far, Hamas and/or the Palestinians in Gaza have not taken to the “Arab Spring.” I think it might have something to do with putting forth a mellow face ahead of Abbas’s visit to the UN.

    Even though I predicted differently before, I don’t think that visit is going to go well. Hamas and Fatah have somewhat reconciled, and that was a big sticking point. But Hamas doesn’t want to hold elections until after the UN visit, which I think is another sticking point. I think new elections would result in less power for Hamas in the PNA, and I think they know that, which is why they don’t want the elections. A weakened Hamas in the PNA might not draw the international scrutiny and backlash that the 2006 victory had. That would have made things easier for Abbas at the UN.

    Once that UN visit has come and gone and given no fruit, the reason for staying mellow will be gone. (And I am not saying pacify them to avoid violence). And it will be gone for the folks in the West Bank, too.

    Then there is the recent UN indictments against members of Hezbollah for the assassination of the Lebanese PM a few years ago. Hezbollah has already said that they will no way hand those guys over. And if anyone tries to get them, it’s going to be on like Donkey Kong. I don’t see any reason to doubt that threat.

    Add to that whatever the hell is going on in S. Israel today. Even Israel doesn’t think Hamas or Fatah are involved. But someone is, so it just means there is another group trying to be a noticeable player.

    Any comments on any of that, G? or anyone else?

  258. Thank you Gorilla. Your take is pretty much along the line of mine and your opinion a heck of a lot more meaningful. I’ve often wondered after the death of Bin Laden, how you knew. I recognize you can’t volunteer that on this board.

    Remember this back in March?

    Mean while, in Syria where literally hundreds, likely thousands, of people have been brutally abused and killed protested a dictator who actually threatens regional peace. This Administrations reaction? Praise and a pat on the back, until the violence got so bad that Clinton and Obama could no longer turn a blind eye. Why?

    http://www.examiner.com/geopolitics-in-national/clinton-calls-syrian-tyrant-a-reformer-despite-assad-s-bloody-repression

    And this is the alternative to Obama? If this doesn’t proves the entire machine isn’t invariably wrong about everything and rotten to the core, I don’t know what will.

    And this is the woman they are turning to now that they can no longer hide Baroke O’Bummer’s many weaknesses?

  259. My only comment Huck is that if I were a betting man, Egypt, Libya and Syria are going to end very ugly. I’m thinking Iran circa 1979.

    Ironically, I read an article the other day that while the rest of the world starts their own Ayatollah Khomeini regime, there are millions in Iran in quiet support of attempting to overthrow that corrupt regime through other means.

    It would be the height of irony if it’s Persia that ends up peacemaker.

  260. Tex,

    I’m just quoting the words of Jesus. Obviously, you don’t get it or it doesn’t fit in your parameters (think: box) of what faith is about. That isn’t my interpretation. And it says nothing about not invoking the name of God in public.

    You can belittle whomever you choose, myself included. It seems to be your way of dealing with opposing viewpoints. Obviously it makes you feel better, so power to you. I can see a few chips showing up in your armor… :grin:

    I’d love to hang out and chat, but I got to get out into this heat. Have a great day! :cool:

  261. I am not concerned about Egypt. All they really did was trade strong man rule for military rule. The same military that produced Egypt’s last 3 strong man rulers.

    Libya is so crazy I can’t even attempt to analyze it.

    I think Syria would have a good chance of going the way of Iran if the wrong people fill the power vacuums that might come eventually. I don’t think it would happen under Assad or it would have happened by now. But if he goes, who knows. Iran has a lot of influence there.

  262. “And this is the alternative to Obama?”

    I hate to defend her, but as a diplomat it is not her place to be anything but a policy mouthpiece for her boss. Granted, she could always quit if forced to do or say something she didn’t want to. But diplomats tend to take a lot before reaching that point.

  263. Huck, I’m not sure I consider Sec. of State as much diplomat as foreign adviser. And if this is the quality of the one doing the advising, in this case calling Assad the brutal thug a reformer, well…

    It’s about status quo and what I’ve come to expect from the entire Obama Adm.

    My take on this whole Arab Spring? The overthrow of brutal thugs who have kept the crazies in check for the better part of 40 years, with about 80% of the remaining population fodder for the powerful to do as they see fit – their lives are cheap. And now the crazies will get their shot.

    Truth be known Huck, I actually pity most of the Muslim world – not hate them. All but a few of these countries remind me of an oligarchy with the military in real control paid and bought by the few, with the remaining citizens serfs to be used. It has to be an awful life for most – the ones we never see or hear about. Could be wrong.

  264. That isn’t my interpretation.

    And your track record concerning your interpretation about much of anything isn’t appealing to the sane – unless they are seeking abject failure and/or destitution.

    Bankrupt is a great descriptor of a great many things. :wink:

  265. “And there is serious consideration to giving these people nuclear weapon codes?” -PFesser

    So how does this work exactly? Can the President walk into some room all by himself/herself in the middle of the night and punch in a code and blow away the country of their choice? Where is that keypad located anyway? I hope the door to the room is at least double bolted. Heck, what if the President sleepwalks?

    Anyway, I think it boils down to a question of balance.

    —–

    Huck, to be honest with you, it gave me pause when I read about Perry’s proclamation. Mostly because it smelled like juicy red meat.

    I think Perry has the charisma that Romney lacks, but all in all I wished he hadn’t done it. It in no way offends me, nor do I think he’s nuts – especially after reading the proclamation itself. But I can understand how it could be a turn off to others. That said, I often go mute myself when I think my audience is incapable of understanding my point. That’s where I think Perry missed in his proclamation.

    Beyond that, I don’t think it’s a big deal. I think it’s an irrational fear to worry over giving Perry or Bachman the nuke codes. Not directing that at you specifically, Huck. Just making a general observation. The man or woman we elect needs to be balanced, and IMO – Christian does not automatically equate to unbalanced.

    By the way, BiC, I loved your article (re: #166). A beautiful series of replies to a few questions I’ve heard, oh, around a billion times.

  266. It would depend on the Boss as to whether or not the SoS is also an adviser. And something tells me that Obama isn’t interested in Hillary’s advise. He only gave her something to keep her occupied and out of his hair.

    But regardless of whether or not she serves as an adviser, at the end of the day she has to toe his line.

    That the statement is so idiotic is why Obama made her give it. (Don’t get me wrong. I am no way saying she doesn’t believe every word. I am just saying it doesn’t matter what she believes.) Then he can give the “I don’t micromanage my cabinet” excuse that we have already heard regarding the DoJ and others when they say and do stupid shit.

  267. By chance, do any of my comrades here know how this Democratic talking point statistic is derived?

    The statement goes something like this, and I have heard it a hundred times now. This is but one of dozens of examples:

    According to Obama administration Ag Secretary Tom Vilsack, food stamps are good for the economy. According to Vilsack, for every $1.00 spent on food stamps we see $1.84 in production.

    Exactly how would that work? So we take $1.00 from Peter and give it to Paul to spend. Somehow, through the magic of free enterprise, the economy gets an 84% return in investment. Okay. I don’t believe it, but let’s assume they are right for a minute.

    If that’s the case, why is Peter’s one dollar spent, or saved, or invested not also worth $1.84? At best, isn’t this just a reallocation and a wash?

    And since we now have approximately 1 out of 6.5 Americans on food stamps, where is the portion of the 84% return we’ve been accruing for the last three years?

  268. Huck, no doubt perhaps Obama’s only smooth move since taking office was to offer the female megalomaniac candidate and purveyor of vast right-wing machines a job she couldn’t refuse.

    But are you aware there is now a huge fight amongst Hillary progressives of “I told you so” that she the better, more capable candidate than Obama, and would have made a better President.

    But if she is simply an Obama lackey, his mouthpiece if you will, how could progressives come to that conclusion? :smile:

    No need to answer. The question is rhetorical in nature, as is any question concerning logic, beauty or truth about a progressive politics.

  269. This multiplier only matters if we assume Peter wasn’t going to spend that $1. If Peter wanted to hang on to that $1 then the only way to get that $1 into the economy for the multiplier to happen is to take it from him and give it to someone that will spend it.

    But if Peter was going to spend that $1 anyway, all this does is make it look like the food stamp is creating the multiplier instead of the $1 that would have done it regardless of who spent it.

  270. “But are you aware there is now a huge fight amongst Hillary progressives of “I told you so” that she the better, more capable candidate than Obama, and would have made a better President.”

    She says she isn’t interested anymore. If true, then she wouldn’t care about future political capital.

    “But if she is simply an Obama lackey, his mouthpiece if you will, how could progressives come to that conclusion?”

    Because they recognize, like the rest of us, that anyone is better than Obama. Also, being a lackey gives her deniability if she does want future political capital. She can just counter his “I don’t micromanage” with “everyone knows the SoS does what they are told.”

  271. “$1 that would have done it regardless of who spent it.”

    Oh contraire. One dollar in the hands of a bureaucracy isn’t a dollar. 90 cents of that dollar is completely wasted on the most unproductive system and employees ever conceived.

    Villisack is a complete jack ass re-selling the same load of feces Pelosi was in her bid for more federal dollars to go to her monetary black hole of a state. No greater proof of liberal economic illiteracy really. :roll: And this is who argue with over economic policy. . .

  272. R, can you write a new post that just says “new post” or something? The load time when the comments get over 300 is really long.

  273. Huck,

    She says she isn’t interested anymore. If true, then she wouldn’t care about future political capital.

    Like all of us, you have your shortcomings. Naivety isn’t one of them. :wink:

    Hillary wants to be first female President so bad, she can taste it. I haven’t fully ruled out a Hillary run in 2012. If the economy completely collapses and they can use that as the final excuse that Obama isn’t electable, progressives will be begging Hillary to run, and I believe she would happily comply.

    Under the guise of “love of country and duty calls”, of course.

    I talked to a doctor friend I know who has met and talked to both Shrillary and Baroke in early 2008. He volunteered he thought Obama was a dumb ass and toad, and that was before he was elected as President.

    But he said, “watch the bitch. She’s shrewd.” :lol:

  274. “So we take $1.00 from Peter and give it to Paul to spend. Somehow, through the magic of free enterprise, the economy gets an 84% return in investment.” -Tex

    Depending how you look at it, all food stamps are not taken from Peter. Some (all?) are taken from Peter’s grand children, many of the lads not even born yet.

    Of course, some of the money goes right into JP Morgan Bank, who facilitates the whole scheme.

    Talk about easy money.

  275. I’m just amazed Rabbit that there are people that actually believe “food stamps” will fetch a return of 84%, which just begs the question, if so….

    ….why the hell aren’t we sticking every bit of our federal revenue short of defense in food stamps? Since the fed now makes up 1/4 of our economy (and we wonder why we are feeling drained), just a quick calculation in my head tells me that if we took the approximately $3 trillion left after defense and invested it in “food stamps”, our economy should get an immediate positive bump this side of 16%.

    Anybody dumb enough to believe that deserves to be shot on site.

    And you’re damn right – our kids are paying about 40% of that “investment.”

    Here is the appropriate return on investment of food stamps.

    Zero – like our President and his staff.

  276. Under President Obama, while the economy is struggling to grow and create jobs, the federal regulatory business is booming.

    Regulatory agencies have seen their combined budgets grow a healthy 16% since 2008, topping $54 billion, according to the annual “Regulator’s Budget,” compiled by George Washington University and Washington University in St. Louis.

    That’s at a time when the overall economy grew a paltry 5%.

    Meanwhile, employment at these agencies has climbed 13% since Obama took office to more than 281,000, while private-sector jobs shrank by 5.6%. ~ Investor’s Business Daily

  277. And I waste my time buying my groceries rather than stimulating the economy by using food stamps. :roll:

    I can only hope we have the riots here like they do in Europe. Imagine how much all that looting and destruction will improve the economy.

    Duuuuhhhhhhhh…………..

  278. Rutherford reads a little post I wrote about the fallen Navy SEALs and what “saddens” him?

    The fact I brought up God!

    You’re kidding me right? DR, you aren’t that stupid. I wasn’t “saddened” by your bringing up God. I was saddened (or maybe just perplexed) by your willingness to believe that a God that does not intervene on behalf of heroes suddenly intervenes on behalf of their grieving families.

    Tread lightly here my friend. You have said on more than one occasion that you struggle with faith. You know why you struggle? Because you’re too damn smart to swallow the dogma wholesale.

    I’m not saying Tex is dumb. On the contrary he has as many degrees as I have changes of socks. I think Tex, like most of us, is terrified of dying and religion offers him an explanation that helps him sleep at night. Yes, I know it’s much more complicated than that, but that is a part of it.

    Sorry, G … should be in the Coliseum.

  279. I think Tex, like most of us, is terrified of dying and religion offers him an explanation that helps him sleep at night. Yes, I know it’s much more complicated than that, but that is a part of it.

    Only because of the unknown – and the physical death. I’ve come near death a couple of times and sure I was scared. I damn sure was fighting to survive. I’ll admit as much.

    But I think your thinking incredibly child like and naive. I find it hard to believe an educated man like you, knowing what you do, would swallow hook, line and sinker that we’re here by accident. That somehow this beautiful tuned universe just gathered by itself – though there’s not a chance in hell you’ll ever find a physical explanation, nor could you. The power of this universe is beyond physics, beyond explanation. The more we discover, the more awed I get. I don’t think there is a creator. I know there is a Creator.

    That much is easy – the harder part has been convincing myself that Christ is the one. The stuff you guys buy about neo-Darwinian crap to explain the unexplainable is beyond Poolman gullible – it is stupid. But don’t think you don’t have a form of faith – it’s just that yours really is undeniably man made.

    But I’m through trying to convince you otherwise. Someday, I am pretty sure you’ll see all these things you’ve worried about to make yourself sick over will matter not one iota. But you’ll regret like never before that you didn’t take the time to at least consider if there is something more.

  280. Rutherford –

    Don’t waste your time. In order to discuss a topic one has to KNOW something about it, and asserting that Darwin’s theory’s central tenet is that life occurred and evolved by accident is the certain benchmark of someone who doesn’t know a thing about it.

    Evolution can be taught over and over, and one may even have taken a class on it, but in no way does it promote the idea that life’s path is accidental. That is the straw man that the ignorant (sometimes willfully so) erect in order to knock down and then point to and say, “See, that’s silly!”

    Yes it certainly is.

  281. Hillary wants to be first female President so bad, she can taste it. I haven’t fully ruled out a Hillary run in 2012. If the economy completely collapses and they can use that as the final excuse that Obama isn’t electable, progressives will be begging Hillary to run, and I believe she would happily comply. – Tex

    I don’t think so. I think that if it is deemed so bad that Obama can’t win, she’ll intentionally wait it out because it will be likely that no Dem can win. She’d rather challenge in 2016, using the Reagan arguments on age than loose in what will likely be an obvious downfall.

  282. Hey Rutherford, see this?

    Don’t waste your time. In order to discuss a topic one has to KNOW something about it, and asserting that Darwin’s theory’s central tenet is that life occurred and evolved by accident is the certain benchmark of someone who doesn’t know a thing about it.

    Except in this case, my knowledge of the subject is far more current, and I would wager on this board, I understand far more about the entirety of the subject than my critic. I sent the schmuck current information months ago slamming Neo-Darwinianism as incomplete and in some cases proven false by genetics, straight out of all places Cambridge, peer approved of course, and our resident “genius” went silent. Not so much as even a buzz, and that was when he was talking to me. I doubt Einstein even understood it.

    It’s the standard excuse and the predictable parroted response that militant atheists use when confronted about the vast shortcomings of neo-Darwinian theory to explain origins. Fat Grannies quality. Reminds me of those that defend Baroke O’Bummer’s solutions. Just pretend the solutions will fix the problem with any assumptions one sees fit, including not providing the equation at all.

    Problem #1, and I’ve got a million of them? It provides no satisfactory explanation for the origin of life, and in fact ignores it. And Dr. Darwin’s excuse? Darwinism is primarily about what has occurred since life began, rather than a foolproof examination of how it began. :twisted: Technically, hot shot is right – that is the current dogma taught in most education.

    But that doesn’t address my answer to you, does it? See how they couch the unexplainable as unnecessary? It would be liking trying to explain calculus, but telling you the numbers unnecessary, just the process required. Jump to step 47 out of 50, and pretend the first 46 steps are not required.

    Good thing we don’t teach math that way, hey?

  283. Gorilla, my comment about Hillary was sheer speculation that at some moment in time, progressives will get the distinct impression Obama is not electable in 2012 – that was not a prediction as much as a possibility. You could be right about 2016 – the Clinton’s political instincts are solid, no doubt. They are infinitely smarter than the dunce at present duffing golf balls at Martha’s Vineyard – a liberal haven.

    My comment to Huck was intended as I don’t believe for a second that Hillary Clinton has given up hope being President, and won’t until her dying day. I believe she has every intention of running for President, contrary to what she has said, and if she felt she could beat Obama in the primary and had the full backing of the progressive crowd, she would happily comply in 2012. I’ll stand by that.

    Her ego is every bit as large as her husband’s.

    ———–

    The Krauthammer article was excellent. Most of his are. And I loved his take calumnies – he is absolutely right. The spin when you cut through the blather is Republicans want the country to fail, not because Obama’s ideas are irrational, driving down the wrong way of a one way street, and proven failures, but because they want to retain power at all costs. That is Progressivism 101.

  284. Good article with solid points…

    Ask an audience to name the three most important revolutions in human history, and the most common answers are the American, French, and Russian. But to understand our current situation, the better answer is the agricultural, industrial, and delusional revolutions.
    [...]
    The phrase “nature bats last” circulates these days among people who have their eye on the multiple, cascading ecological crises. The metaphor reminds us that nature is the home team and has the final word. We humans may be particularly impressed with our own achievements – all of the spectacular homeruns we have hit with science and technology – but when those achievements are at odds with how nature operates, then nature is going to bring in the ultimate designated hitter and knock the human race out of the ballpark. The point is simple: We are not as powerful as the forces that govern that larger living world. So, we need to see beyond the egotistical rhetoric of our technological fundamentalism – the claims that infinitely clever humans will solve all problems with gadgets – and end the human war on the rest of the living world.

    http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/08/2011817123937422833.html

  285. Israel managed to kill 2 Egyptian soldiers yesterday while they were issuing their collective punishment upon the Gaza Strip.

    Looks like indiscriminate bombing over the last couple decades has taken its toll on the skills of the Israeli Air Force.

  286. One of the themes I have been emphasizing over the past few years focuses on the destruction of the U.S. economy and control over the political system by lobbyist groups. As long as lobbyists exist, America will continue to be run by corporations.
    What does this really mean?
    It’s quite simple. Control over government by corporate interests is defined as fascism. This is precisely the type of government that has presided over United States for well over three decades. As long as corporate interests control Washington, the United States will never have a government that resembles a democracy, much less a republic.

    Evidence banks bought off Washington.

    There is no doubt that without the influence and power of AIPAC, the U.S. would never have gone to war in Iraq. Along with the equally unnecessary war in Afghanistan, America’s prolonged occupation in the Middle East has cost taxpayers trillions of dollars, resulted in the loss of thousands of American lives, while wounding hundreds of thousands of U.S. military personnel, both physically and psychologically.

  287. “It provides no satisfactory explanation for the origin of life…”

    But this does.

    :roll:

    About as much as if I gave you an unrefined pile of aluminum of about a 100 tons, and if we let 4.6 billion years pass and nature take its course, we’ll come back and find a Boeing 777.

  288. tsk, tsk, tsk…

    (WHD) — Michelle Obama and President Obama traveled to Martha’s Vineyard just hours apart, costing taxpayers thousands in additional expenses so she could have just a bit of extra vacation time.

    Mrs. Obama and her daughters arrived just before 2 pm Thursday on a U.S. government jet, according to the Martha’s Vineyard Times, which got its information from the local airport. The first lady’s office has been silent on her travel. President Obama arrived in the evening along with the family dog Bo.

    The extra costs related to Mrs. Obama’s solo trip mainly include the flight on a specially designed military aircraft she took instead of Air Force One, as well as any extra staff and Secret Service that had to be enlisted to go with her. She would also have had her own motorcade from the airport to her vacation residence.

  289. I’ve often wondered if somebody from Mexico launched 12,000 rockets a year indiscriminately, including the local school yards, and shot into Apple Valley’s transit system killing seven civilians earlier this week, or bombed the local popular pizzeria, or decided to pull people from their homes and cut their heads off, perhaps even suicide bombing a wedding party…

    If the good citizens of Apple Valley, CA, would focus their sole attention on a couple of Mexican citizens killed, if our Air Force in retaliation, annihilated the perpetrators?

    A Boeing 777 than can reproduce, with self-correcting mechanisms by the way.

  290. I notice that nobody who asks “what is Israel supposed to do against Palestinian terrorists?” ever bothers to ask “what are Palestinians supposed to do against Israeli oppression?”

    I mean…they’ve only been kicked out of their homes…watched them be bulldozed…watched their family members be slaughtered…been under siege for almost 50 years. How much are people expected to take?

    While it is painfully obvious that both sides enjoy continuing the ongoing conflict, it seems that it is only 1 side that is allowed to fight it.

  291. Gorilla,

    Serf’s expense is irrelevant. I’m just happy they decided to vacation domestically this time. Saves on the 500 person entourage.

    Be grateful for small favors. I am kind of expecting an announcement of let them eat cake sometime soon. :mad:

  292. Huck,

    Skill and aim doesn’t really matter too much when you have complete media collusion and cover. I’m certain those Egyptian soldiers will go down as terrorist sympathizers. If not, they will pay their families off and consider it justice served.

    Remember, terrorism only happens to Israel. Their actions are always retaliatory, you know, self defense and always justified. They are the victims, remember? Don’t criticize them, or they’ll label you antisemitic or a Holocaust denier. :roll:

  293. I mean…they’ve only been kicked out of their homes…watched them be bulldozed…watched their family members be slaughtered…been under siege for almost 50 years. How much are people expected to take?

    I don’t know. Wouldn’t that question better be posed to their representative government Hamas, who continues the suicide missions?

    Perhaps we should reread the history of the Grand Mufti and his relationship with Adolph Hitler – swell guy.

  294. “About as much as if I gave you an unrefined pile of aluminum of about a 100 tons, and if we let 4.6 billion years pass and nature take its course, we’ll come back and find a Boeing 777.”

    And yet, so much more than “and on the 6th day….”

    “I’ve often wondered if somebody from Mexico launched 12,000 rockets a year indiscriminately, including the local school yards, and shot into Apple Valley’s transit system killing seven civilians earlier this week, or bombed the local popular pizzeria, or decided to pull people from their homes and cut their heads off, perhaps even suicide bombing a wedding party…”

    And I have often wondered how you would react if your next door neighbor suddenly told you that Allah gave him your house and then told you to leave at the point of a gun.

    You resist, and 1 of your kids is shot to show you just who is in charge here. You continue to resist, so your neighbor sets up shop in your front yard. He puts walls all around your house. He even puts up walls inside your house, forcing you to ask his permission just to take a shit. Finally, he decides your house isn’t worth the hassle, and a D9 Cat comes along and levels it. Maybe you get out in time, maybe you don’t. Your neighbor doesn’t really give a fuck. Why?…because you resisted.

  295. “…who continues the suicide missions?”

    Actually, they don’t. Current Hamas policy is that suicide missions have not brought the desired results so they moved to missiles and mortars.

  296. Huck, do you believe in the Westphalian system? Are you a realist (international relation speaking of course)?

  297. Also regarding Hamas suicide missions.

    They have stopped them because they want to take away the argument that was just used above. They recognize that suicide missions takes away the moral high ground and gives it to Israel. To maintain touch with its hard-liners, Hamas says it reserves the “right” to continue that tactic at any time.

    But as of this moment, it isn’t on Hamas’ table.

    (Hamas is my thesis case study so I am reading TONS on them right now)

  298. Why don’t you take some amino acids Huck, put them in a petri dish or a used gas can, or something, place in the sun or under your cabinet, or an incubator, or your choice, feed it anything you wish, and come back after a time to see how many proteins it produced? That’s easily measurable…

    I’ve explained about ten times here the significance of the seven days, clearly indicating it has nothing to do with the relevance of time at all, but it apparently keeps falling on death ears. Allegory seems such a difficult concept to so many.

    I will admit the confused are no more confused that those that have men walking with dinosaurs. Both are equally deluded.

  299. And I have often wondered how you would react if your next door neighbor suddenly told you that Allah gave him your house and then told you to leave at the point of a gun.

    Now would that be before or after the day they moved into the neighborhood, I declared I would kill them all, then killed their family, launched rockets at their school, and poisoned their water supply? This all gets so confusing.

  300. By the way Huck, again in fairness (something so many have a hard time practicing concerning judgment), I am aware that there are many individuals who simply are caught in the crossfire, not too different than you and me, and would like to live in relative peace without interference.

    But Gorilla’s question was a fair one and was not adequately answered IMO.

  301. Nobody seems pissed that we indirectly sponsor 81 of our congress critters a trip to Israel to see who butters their bread, when this nation desperately requires their full attention. They should have done a bus tour of the economic disaster areas of this nation. Assholes!

    These people are traitors. Plain and simple. An earlier version of this once great republic would have lined them up and shot them dead – publicly – and been much better off for it.

    And don’t think this isn’t costing us, the taxpayers. While you bitch about the POTUS’s “extravagant” vacations, you ignore that big-assed hairy beast porking your backside.

  302. Hey Rutherford,

    Can we at least admit that Obama’s green jobs pursuit has been a royal bust?

    “President Obama once pledged to create five million green jobs over 10 years. Gov. Jerry Brown promised 500,000 clean-technology jobs statewide by the end of the decade.

    Are they just getting off to a slow start? Where’s the beef? :smile:

  303. Machiavelli only works in the relative short term. It isn’t sustainable. As we have seen time and time and time again..people will only take being shit on for so long.

    I have to admit that I don’t know much at all about the Westphalian system. I just scanned it on the wiki, and found what it says are 3 core principles…

    –The principle of the sovereignty of states and the fundamental right of political self determination

    –The principle of (legal) equality between states

    –The principle of non-intervention of one state in the internal affairs of another state

    I can’t see anything wrong with that. But in all honesty, I am not versed in IR theories at all. I am sure there is a lot to realism and westphalian system that is beyond me right now so I’m not sure how well I can answer your question.

  304. “Allegory seems such a difficult concept to so many.”

    I get the allegory just fine. The Bible only means what it says when the reader wants those parts to mean what they say. Otherwise it means something else, usually determined by the reader.

    Trust me…I get it.

    What you fail to explain is how mere act of will by a deity put life on this planet. “because God said so.” It sounds like a parent talking to a child when he doesn’t have a good enough answer to “how come?”

  305. You mean this one Poolman?

    The week-long trips are sponsored by the American Israel Education Foundation, a charitable organization affiliated with the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, which brings large delegations of congressmen here every other August?

    That one? :smile: The one that AIPAC pays for?

    Who sponsored Obama’s vacation?

  306. “Now would that be before or after the day they moved into the neighborhood, I declared I would kill them all, then killed their family, launched rockets at their school, and poisoned their water supply? This all gets so confusing.”

    It would be before. You didn’t do those things until your home and family started being threatened.

    And which families are you talking about? The ones that Israel sends to settlements it uses for national defense and land grabs? The ones that, since they man defense settlements and, by law, must be armed, should be considered militia and not civilians? Or if they are civilians then Israel uses them as human shields?

    Are those the families you are referring to?

  307. I get the allegory just fine. The Bible only means what it says when the reader wants those parts to mean what they say. Otherwise it means something else, usually determined by the reader.

    Apparently, you don’t get allegory – that is, unless you think the Book of Genesis a book of science?

    Huck, believe as you must. I’m simply sharing my faith, trying to educate someone poorly read concerning Christianity. I’m neither a Creationist in the literal sense or a “fundie.” I understand within reason (as much as humanly capable) the laws of physics, biology and chemistry. Don’t argue with any of them – I simply say God created science as he did everything else.

    I’m not sure what you think Muslims, Christians and Jews consider the Sabbath or a day of rest, or the concept of a week, but there it is… Consider it a synopsis. Doesn’t matter who created the concept as we could argue that until the cows come home.

    The facts are the we all operate by a seven day week, and you are living in the year 2011 Anno Domini..another one of those “secular” facts conveniently ignored. :neutral:

    I’m neither forcing you or begging you to listen. If you want to stand with Rutherford, Obama, Poolman, and Yasser Arafat, and that’s the company you wish to keep concerning the deliberations of the Middle East, who am I to argue?

  308. You didn’t do those things until your home and family started being threatened.

    Perhaps we should revisit May 15, 1948 and the 1947-1948 civil war that preceded it? Day 1 of Israel’s existence? Now if memory serves, that was an Israeli-Arab conflict, was it not? So apparently, the “before” was already answered.

  309. And if you want to believe mythology is fact just because a bunch of other people do, you are certainly free to do so.

    “The facts are the we all operate by a seven day week”

    Of course. It easy to claim the rules are correct when you are the one that gets to make them.

  310. I’m curious what your Master’s is going to be in. Mine is a Master’s in Diplomacy with a concentration in Conflict Management/Resolution, so Israel-Palestine was frequently brought up.

    I bring up the Westphalian system because that is what the world operates under. It is important because since we operate under a system that recognizes the sovereignty of states, then it is states that have to resolve conflict with states. Put succinctly, Palestine is not a state. Furthermore, I don’t think Palestinians are rational actors (in the context of international relations)- they certainly don’t act in a rational actor manner. Personally, I think that their trauma precludes them from rational thought, therefore they can’t effectively engage in dialogue with Israel.

    If it was me, I’d focus negotiations between Israel and the Arab states. 1) the Arab states become the guarantors; 2) it removes the spoilers (i.e. Hamas); 3) it provides for a system of dialogue and commitment that fits into the Westphalian system (i.e. treaties). Likewise, I think it also does something else- it removes the legitimacy of terrorist groups. If the Arab states are accountable for the security in the territories, then they won’t tolerate, sustain or accept the groups. Further, Hamas would be forced to change its actions- and charter- to conform with treaty obligations as the Arab states would not be able to abide the status quo.

  311. “About as much as if I gave you an unrefined pile of aluminum of about a 100 tons, and if we let 4.6 billion years pass and nature take its course, we’ll come back and find a Boeing 777.”

    That would be random action, which of course is not how evolution works or the theory says. This is page one, evolution 101. Buy a book, learn something, come back.

    “Why don’t you take some amino acids Huck, put them in a petri dish or a used gas can, or something, place in the sun or under your cabinet, or an incubator, or your choice, feed it anything you wish, and come back after a time to see how many proteins it produced? That’s easily measurable…”

    Random action again. Page one, Evolution 101 again. An embarrassing demonstration of complete, thoroughgoing ignorance on the subject.

    Classic, perfect examples of someone who hasn’t the first inkling of how evolution works. It is just silly to argue with that kind of nonsense.

    I would say to someone like this, “go and study – buy a book perhaps – learn enough to argue intelligently, and come back when you know something. Then we can discuss things.”

    Until everyone in a discussion has at least a basic understanding of the subject, it’s just a waste of time.

  312. Actually, we can go back further than that, by your own source:

    King David of Israel first established Jerusalem as the capital of the united Kingdom of Israel in c. 1000 BCE, and his son Solomon commissioned the building of the First Temple in the city. And that is a matter of historical record proven and documented.

    And noticed I used the appropriately correct PC date all of you humanists require. :smile:

    Now if my calculations are right, that predates the Palestinian claim by about 1,600 years, give or take a decade or two.

  313. “What you fail to explain is how mere act of will by a deity put life on this planet. “because God said so.” It sounds like a parent talking to a child when he doesn’t have a good enough answer to “how come?”

    There is a name for this way of doing things, Huck.

    It’s called Magic. That’s what you tell the little ones: “It’s magic, honey; that’s how they do it. Magic.”

    How a grown adult can believe in magic is the true mystery.

  314. AIPAC is the biggest and most influential lobby in Washington. Their “sponsors” have an agenda that supersedes the interests and will of the American citizenry. They have more power over our “elected” officials than any other group. But I know you’re lockstep with that.

    And you think because AIEF provided the funding for these “vacations” it isn’t costing us? Weren’t these “tax-free” educational donations? Don’t they financially support AIPAC? I’m certain they expect their substantial investment will pay dividends. Or maybe you can better explain the “innocence” of it all. :roll:

  315. Buy a book, learn something, come back.

    Already did. Took course in 2006. Got an ‘A’ – almost perfect grade.

    Random action again. Page one, Evolution 101 again. An embarrassing demonstration of complete, thoroughgoing ignorance on the subject.

    By all means, please explain to the class teacher the “method” of discrete procedure and biological formulation of natural selection and the corresponding adaptation, and the means of its initiation of mutation allowing this evolutionary process – since it not “random”. Please note: The generic “population of organisms may cause some individuals to survive and reproduce more successfully than others” does not thoroughly explain the technique. Not the what, but the how and the mechanism for driving the how beyond random variation – and be specific.

    Afterward, please provide any of the following: (1) The fossil record you speak and where I may observe it (simian to human will do nicely); (2) The laboratory means of creating life – your choice and we’ll happily provide any materials you require. And publish a book after you do – you’ll make a fortune and won’t have to worry about Bernacke printing money.

    Until everyone in a discussion has at least a basic understanding of the subject, it’s just a waste of time.

    Unless there are other biological selections of 4000 level science course taught in academia, I’m afraid I’m about as armed as current books may allow.

    But if I’m a right, I’ll be your answer will be something along the lines, “without the formal education (which I have) and training (which I did), it is a waste of time to explain further (ad nauseam).”

  316. How a grown adult can believe in magic is the true mystery.

    And yet, a majority of the world, both educated and uneducated believes just that very thing, though we don’t refer to it as “magic” and prefer to use the term “God.”

    What is it, genetically mind you, that allowed you to “evolve” and few others?

  317. Three different arguments from evolution, to creation, to AIPAC. And I’m going to have to leave all three. Shoot…

    AIPAC is the biggest and most influential lobby in Washington. Their “sponsors” have an agenda that supersedes the interests and will of the American citizenry. They have more power over our “elected” officials than any other group. But I know you’re lockstep with that.

    Actually, I hate the idea of “lobbying” all together. If I had my druthers, it would be banned altogether. But that’s just the way the current system works Poolman.

    But when Benjamin Netanyahu destroyed Barack Obama in a speech in front of Congress some months back, he received standing ovations from both Democrats and Republicans, with overwhelming citizenry approval of his take. And since we know the first things on the minds of self-serving politicians with delusions of grandeur is to get elected, and being there was no large outcry of protest, but overwhelming support of the speech, perhaps it is you Poolman that is “out of step” with the wishes of the American people.

    I know this will come as a surprise to you, but that Veteran’s Today blog you so often link staffed with UC Berkeley college kids is not considered mainstream. :smile:

  318. Ant and Grasshopper (2011 version).

    Sent to me by my Libertarian nephew. (and financial planner)

    The ANT AND THE GRASSHOPPER
    This one is a little different.
    Two Different Versions.
    Two Different Morals.

    OLD VERSION:

    The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house, and
    laying up supplies for the winter.

    The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.

    Come winter, the ant is warm and well fed.
    The grasshopper has no food or shelter,
    so he dies out in the cold.

    MORAL OF THE OLD STORY:

    Be responsible for yourself!

    MODERN VERSION:
    The ant works hard in the withering heat and the rain all summer long, building his house,
    and laying up supplies for the winter.

    The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.

    Come winter, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while he is cold and starving.

    CBS, NBC, PBS, CNN, and ABC
    show up to provide pictures of the shivering grasshopper next to a video of the ant in his comfortable home with
    a table filled with food.
    America is stunned by the sharp contrast.

    How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is
    allowed to suffer so?

    Kermit the Frog appears on Oprah
    with the grasshopper and everybody cries when they sing, ‘It’s Not Easy Being Green.’

    ACORN stages a demonstration in front of the ant’s house where the news stations film the group singing, We Shall Overcome.

    Then Rev. Jeremiah Wright
    has the group kneel down to pray for the grasshopper’s sake.

    President Obama condemns the ant
    and blames President Bush, President Reagan, Christopher Columbus, and the Pope for the grasshopper’s plight..

    Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid exclaim in an interview with Larry King that the ant has
    gotten rich off the back of the grasshopper,
    and both call for an immediate tax hike on the ant to make him pay his fair share.

    Finally, the EEOC drafts the Economic Equity and Anti-Grasshopper Act
    retroactive to the beginning of the summer.

    The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate number of green bugs and,
    having nothing left to pay his retroactive
    taxes, his home is confiscated by the government Green Czar and given to the grasshopper.

    The story ends as we see the grasshopper and his free-loading friends finishing up the last bits of the ant’s food while the government house he is in, which, as you recall, just happens to be the ant’s old house, crumbles around them because the grasshopper doesn’t maintain it.

    The ant has disappeared in the snow,
    never to be seen again.

    The grasshopper is found dead in a drug related incident, and the house, now abandoned, is taken over by a gang of spiders who terrorize and ramshackle the once prosperous and peaceful, neighborhood.

    The entire Nation collapses bringing the rest
    of the free world with it.

    MORAL OF THE STORY:

    Be careful how you vote in 2012.

  319. Rutherford,

    Since you didn’t like my 2012 Presidential Democratic campaign slogan:

    Prosperity – it’s right around the corner!

    What do you think of?

    It Coulda Been Worse!

  320. 800 pound G,

    I’m assuming by referring to the Westphalian system you mean the treaty that ended the 30 Years War.

    The Peace of Westphalia allowed sovereign kings and princes to pick between either Lutheranism or Catholicism.

    Didn’t this system fail right off the bat because it purposely ignored a a massive Christian movement that was transnational in nature: Calvinism?

    Thus, the “realist” paradigm that assumes “states” are always the actors failed to stop brutal Civil Wars in France (The War of the 3 Henry’s) and England (the rise of Cromwell) not to mention the beginning of the “Troubles” in Northern Ireland.

    In other words, right off the bat, Europe found itself plagued by conflict that that was impossible for the Westphalian system to address, kind of like today.

    I would argue these conflicts only ended because of a “release valve”, as bad ass Presbyterians forged their destiny in the deep woods and rugged prairies of America.

    European nation states couldn’t handle the Puritans or Scotch-Irish.

    Hence, today, we still have Tex pillaging the blogosphere like his relatives once did among the bison of the plains.

    Which brings me to my point. I wish the world was completely organized in a Westphalian type system, but its not.

    Hasn’t history shown that these asymmetrical types of conflict are rarely solved by legitimate nation states? In fact, are they often times made worse by nation states?

    Thank you for your time.

    Professor Rabbit.

  321. Hence, today, we still have Tex pillaging the blogosphere like his relatives once did among the bison of the plains.

    :lol: May I be as successful. However, the only hunters I’ve seen on my family tree were hunting other men (Texas Rangers). Makes for a pretty cool family portrait. Oh, and one other famous, world renown cowboy – Jim Shoulders. Truth be known, probably drunks and skirt chasers.

    However, I will acknowledge that I do love to do battle with those who base their existence on the fatal flaw of naturalism, which begs that all problems must have a natural explanation. They search and search for meaning and never find it, always putting on the happy face, while minimizing their adversaries by cliche (Creationists, Fundamentalists) – always but always attached to the “scientific method.” All I ask is they repeat it for me and let me observe (the scientific method) and then they throw up their skirt and get all in a huff.

    They leave unanswered the difficult questions, always reverting back to the worn out examples of claims of “the scientific method”, moths changing color and finches beaks lengthening during a drought to explain away the heavens. It’s actually a humorous argument to me, because I excelled at their own course and still don’t believe where they want it to lead. And that is where naturalism leads. Pissed the professor off something fierce, just like it does the pfesser when I started asking the wrong questions. Maybe I am just a rebel.

    If Pfesser had met some of the men I’ve met wearing lab coats to explain the meaning of life to him, making promises of genius to him, thinking it will give him purpose and answer our most personal, endearing questions., it’s no wonder he was duped into voting for Obama.

    I thought of something I read the other day this morning:

    Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

    Not like this is a new argument. Believe it was Solomon who said, “there is nothing new under the sun”, referring to the nature of man. He was right.

  322. Pfessor confuses me with his take on evolution, as he seems to think white people evolved over a course of 12 hundred months into a biologically more peaceful breed of human.

  323. Back to politics – Obama politics.

    I noticed Baroke’s approval rating has dropped 36 points amongst Hispanics according to Gallup.

    You guys don’t figure that might have anything to do yesterday with Obama suddenly disallowing illegal deportations, would you?
    :twisted:

    What a scum bag…

  324. Tex,

    I hate lobbies, too. Let’s get rid of them.

    Just because Netanyahu got more standing ovations, doesn’t mean his speech was any better. Listening to both, I think BiBi is the bigger liar. Congress obviously knows who owns their collective ass. It’s called kowtowing, going with the flow, brown-nosing, ass-kissing, etc.

    Can you imagine the flack directed toward any if they did not stand and applaud? They are obviously trained well. I bet there were observers watching, keeping score and making sure there were none in opposition.

    Really, this event is more embarrassing than any bowing Obama has ever done toward any other world leaders.

  325. Hey Poolman, still waiting for you to make your move and shed your cowardly shell.

    Let me know, ok?

    Let me know when you finally get the balls to fight what is according to your “narrative” one of the most diabolical nations on earth. Because I want to be the one that disperses of you when you do.

  326. By the way, your always talking up Ron Paul. You realize, if it was up to him, you would have to be the patriarch of your house and actually pay for any gyno issues or yeast infections that might arise. Planned Parenthood would be one of the first things Ron Paul would eliminate if he had his way.

    I don’t even think you can articulate why Ron Paul is your choice.

  327. Rabbit,

    We’ll be giving up way more than planned parenthood before this is over. Ron Paul just happens to be the boldest and most consistent of the entire bunch. The media isn’t pimping him, either. That speaks volumes.

    I don’t have to agree with everything he stands for. His key areas suit me fine. As I have said, I still don’t know how much real affect any POTUS can have.

    As to being the patriarch of my house…

    I have 2 adult daughters 29 and 27, both married and living in their own homes not too far away. My two grandchildren are boys, 8 and 6 years of age. Wife works full-time now. First time she’s had to since we had kids. She was a homemaker and even home-schooled my girls through 1st and 3rd grade levels. They’ve got her in management training now, and only after being there 5 months. It means a raise and benefits.

    I’d rather her not work. I liked having her home as she loves to garden and was able to keep the place in order. Oh well. “The times they are a’changin’.

    We eat organic and healthy as possible and just don’t have health issues. I am anxious to start gardening again, now that we’re in a new place. No peaches, unfortunately. I miss my lime, orange, lemon, and tangerine, though. Those limes were year round.

    Articulating my choice…

    Anti Federal Reserve and big banks
    Anti MIC and Imperialism as foreign policy
    Anti Fascism and Big Brother government
    Anti welfare state

    That should cover the bases. :cool:

  328. Because I want to be the one that disperses of you when you do.

    :lol: Rabbit dispatches the Poolman. And I had forgotten Dr. Paul was a proponent of eliminating PP – he gets a plus in my book for getting rid of that mill.

    I guess Rabbt, Mr. Poolman missed my statement that not only did Congress give Netanyahu one standing ovation after another as Netanyahu gave an outstanding speech without the help of a teleprompter, but the American public also gave Israel its overwhelming support.

    Are we all in cahoots with AIPAC?

    Poolman, one of these days you might recognize just how out of whack you are with the great majority of the America public.

    Now play me some of that old spiritual music about how you’re one of the chosen and enlightened. :roll:

  329. “But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” – Jesus

  330. How did I know that would be your answer? Let’s see?

    The man who hates God’s first chosen people
    Has accused Israel of every ill though God made covenant with its people
    Continually finds fault with all Christians and daily criticizes, besides best I can tell himself
    Supports America’s largest abortion provider with his pledges
    Continually cavorts with people on blogs who either mock God or hate God

    So that leads me to my final question.

    If you are one of chosen, and one of the few enlightened, why did God choose someone as chosen that couldn’t be honest enough to pay his bills? :twisted:

    Lord, Lord – did I not prophesy in your name? :wink:

  331. Poolman the Slanderer, you are correct. That was very fitting scripture.

    If you ever step up and harm this nation you hate so much, I will indeed be barred from the gates of heaven.

    You are the worst kind of bible thumper.

    Absent of any moral code, a cowardly liar and shit talker. A defender of infantcide. A gossiping pussy.

    Yet, despite this, full of righteous confidence you do God’s work.

    Your rumors are evil. You do harm.

  332. You guys are pathetic.

    Tex with his lips firmly planted on Netan’s yahu and rabbit fiercely defending the idea of a great nation, though he abhors the government.

    …”step up and harm this nation..”. :roll:

    I couldn’t imagine anyone harming it more than these folks have already done and continue to do, with both of your blessings.

  333. “I couldn’t imagine anyone harming it more than these folks have already done and continue to do, with both of your blessings.”

    You can’t imagine more harm, yet you do nothing but post on a few blogs.

    Ultimate coward.

  334. Do you understand that many people believing what you do would be duty bound to over throw the government?

    Your words are fightin’ words.

    I know you claim passivity. What about those who don’t?

    Luckily, you are a town fool.

    I think you know your a fool living a fantasy. If you were taken seriously, your accusations of this nation would be akin to screaming fire in a theater. The blood would be on your hands.

    So, since you talk war, why don’t you have the balls to act on it, chicken hawk?

  335. You’re digging a hole, bunny.

    Just keep telling those inquiring minds that their government loves them and would never do them any harm, always revealing the truth about events and keeping their best interests at heart.

    Foment that bullshit vision, okay?

  336. You fool, by tossing around your fantasies and pop cultural conspiracies, you are crying wolf to the point of blocking out legitimate gripes.

    Your idiotic and unproven allegations make it that much harder to expose a real conspiracy.

    You are sinning.

  337. DR you are so true in 473. I recently saw a program about Area 51. The truth is the DoD and many MIC types absolutely love the UFO loons and conspiracy folks.

  338. Alright, I was going to let sleeping dogs lie, but since Alfie chimmed in, yes there is proof. But your going to have to research it yourself. Or choose to keep your head in the sand.

    For starters google Lavon affair and USS Liberty. Then let’s talk.

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