The Punchline is Donald Trump

April 21, 2011 at 1:09 am 347 comments

The joke begins, “who would make a great President in 2013?” and the punchline is “Donald Trump”. I would post the George Stephanopoulos interview with the Donald but the piece MSNBC’s Lawrence O’Donnell (“Crazy Larry”) did Tuesday night is so much better because he takes the best of George’s questions and Donald’s lame answers and then interjects his own special brand of snark.

Why should anyone supporting a Trump presidential run get their head examined? Let me count the ways:

  1. The likelihood that Trump has sent “investigators” to Hawaii to find the “truth” about Obama is just about zero.
  2. Trump was pro-choice before he was pro-life and has no understanding of Roe v. Wade.
  3. Trump, a serial exaggerator (i.e. liar) claims a net worth not supported by any third-party account.
  4. Trump’s explanation for bankruptcy is at best a lie and at worst evidence of serious ethics problems. Apparently, if you believe his explanation, bankruptcy is a great way to not pay your bills and get a “good deal” on partial payments. And that’s his positive defense!

One theory about Trump’s current appeal as a candidate among Republicans is his supposed business savvy which a country in dire financial condition badly needs. NBC investigative reporter Michael Isikoff interviewed Trump about his business acumen and his bankruptcy shenanigans were the tip of the iceberg. My favorite scam is “Trump University”, an “educational program” that I actually considered “enrolling” in a couple of years ago. Something told me it would be a waste of my money. Apparently some states attorneys general agree with me.

One thing I got out of watching Trump’s foolishness is a new appreciation for Sarah Palin. I kid you not. The sexism on display by Trump’s meteoric political rise when he is as dumb as Sarah ever was is mind-boggling. While Sarah has “spunk”, she can’t sell her stupidity to the average intelligent voter. Trump on the other hand turns on the aggressive take-no-prisoners overkill and for a minute you find yourself believing he can move mountains.

My favorite bit of Trump braggadocio is his put-down of Mitt Romney as a small business man. While I’m no big fan of Romney, based on the Isikoff interview, I’d trust Romney with my money a whole lot sooner than Trump.

But let me end where I began with my buddy Crazy Larry. On another segment of his show, O’Donnell discussed possible campaign slogans sent in by viewers. My favorite:

Trump/Palin Bumper Sticker
Respectfully,
Rutherford

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Congress for Dummies A Sad Day in American Political History

347 Comments Add your own

  • 1. Tex Taylor  |  April 21, 2011 at 1:38 am

    Unfortunately for Dims, the issues of the 2012 election by late this summer will become Obama’s abysmal domestic and foreign record, and not Donald Trump or Rutherford’s favorite nemesis, the beautiful Ms. Sarah. Unlike 2008, Obama now has a record that can be measured.

    This charade is but the cartoon previews before the movie starts. In fact, several polls recently have shown that among likely voters, 45-52% have said they will not vote for Obama under any circumstances. :smile:

    Though neither Trump or Palin are serious Presidential candidates, they do have something appealing – both fry the ass of Obama rubes when they get up and speak.

    I did notice that Obama’s priorities continue to be fund raising, as he was unable to make it to to witness the storm damage due to a planned fund raising event – a state if memory serves, Obama won in 2008 and another one he can kiss goodbye in 2012.

    I actually think MSNBC, more specifically men like Lawrence O’Donnell and Butch Madcow have become such an asset to Obama’s opponents, I may switch my allegiance to MSNBC for a time just to watch the smirk leave the faces of both Crazy Larry and Butch in the coming months.

  • 2. Tex Taylor  |  April 21, 2011 at 1:39 am

    Oh, and that state would be North Carolina.

  • 3. an800lbgorilla  |  April 21, 2011 at 7:11 am

    You know, I posted this on the previous thread, but I’m going to say it again here for a couple reasons. One, Trump is pushing the birther bit hard, so it applies. Two, I sincerely want a response from R and the rest of the leftists minions trolling through here. So, stated again:

    Tigre, the birther thing is the single signpost of a person who:

    1) is a racist OR
    2) has no grasp of policy so he reaches for straws OR
    3) is your generic conspiracy nut
    ” – R

    But of course, what else could it be?

    Do you know what grades Obama got in college?

    How about what papers he wrote while in school or as the editor of the Harvard Law Review?

    Have you seen the official birth certificate?

    You could call all of this conspiracy, and there’s probably some truth to that. But consider this: Obama has never been transparent and open to the People. No one knows what he has written, what grades he got or have they seen his birth certificate. All of these things are super easy to put to rest, just release the documents, but he won’t.

    My guess is that his grades were not that good, so he’s got to hide that because it’ll conflict with this meme that he’s the smartest man on earth.

    Likewise, I’m guessing his college papers were not that good, and more than likely, had a very heavy ideological bend towards the left. He needs independents to think he’s not some radical, and those papers exposing his ideology would not help that little charade.

    What I can’t figure is his birth certificate. My son was born in Hawaii, so I know the difference between the documents. The short form only acknowledges that there is a long form, which has all of the pertinent details that a typical birth certificate would have. But it is hard not to have some form of skepticism when Hawaii (overwhelmingly Dem, controlled by Unions and leftists) can’t seem to find the document, yet attests to its existence.

    We’ve had this chat before- can you explain why he refuses to release the document?

    There are really only two answers to this:
    A) The document doesn’t exist and thus he has no way of confirming his natural birth

    Or

    B) He intends to use the “birther conspiracy” as a political weapon against political opponents.

    I lean towards B, but pray A is the answer. Why? Because it would be, by far, the best way to absolve this nation of the sins Obama has committed. Every piece of legislation that he signed would be null and void. His Administration would be tossed out almost immediately and, more importantly, the Dems would suffer a fatal blow. The political devastation that would follow against the Dems would be without equal.

    Quite frankly, if the birther argument is correct, it’d be the greatest thing to happen to this nation in decades- the destruction of the left.

  • 4. an800lbgorilla  |  April 21, 2011 at 7:36 am

    Now, this is kind of cool…

    (WisPolitics) — The Department of Regulation and Licensing (DRL) and the Medical Examining Board (MEB) have opened investigations involving eight individuals who allegedly wrote medical excuses for individuals attending rallies at the Capitol in February.

    Based on information provided by various complainants, DRL identified 11 people who were asked to provide an explanation to the department about their activities at the Capitol. Based on the complaints and the information received by DRL, a screening panel consisting of three members of the MEB has decided to open investigations on eight individuals. Investigations were not opened as to the other three individuals because the panel concluded no violations had occurred.

    A more extensive fact-finding process will now occur on the cases which have been opened to determine if any violations of law occurred. Recommendations will be made at the end of each investigation as to whether disciplinary action should be pursued.

    The DRL and MEB are charged with licensing qualified, competent physicians and enforcing discipline against physicians whose practice is substandard.

  • 5. El Tigre  |  April 21, 2011 at 8:24 am

    “Though neither Trump or Palin are serious Presidential candidates, they do have something appealing – both fry the ass of Obama rubes when they get up and speak.”

    Amen. :lol:

    I love how Rutherford, who bought into Obama-mania like a teenage girl, is only capable of applying skeptiscm when MSNBC tells him to.

    Actually criticising Trump’s business acumen? Really? I don’t like trump. He is something of a cartoon. But seriously. Like Obama even held a job before his candidacy. Your “buddy” Crazy Larry doesn’t talk much about Obama’s succeses does he?

    So Rutherford, how do you think Obama would answer a question about his “failures?” (that’s a trick question. Obama’s very existence is God’s gift to the world — his failures are succeses, right? ).

    What happened to Limbaugh? I guess he hasn’t hurt Obama’s feelings lately like Trump has.

    Let us know when you switch back to Palin, or Bachman, or Glenn Beck or whoever MSNBC directs you to point and laugh at to support your undeserved sense of political superiority. You know, the kind that lead to the shelacking last November.

  • 6. El Tigre  |  April 21, 2011 at 8:38 am

    Gorilla, I had the same thoughts on the birther issue. But I wondred whether his academic records might show that he claimed a particular heritage to obtain admission/scholarships as well as underperfomance.

    But since I am not a conspircay nut, I’ll just sit my racist ass down for allowing such thoughts to cross my mind.

    Rutherford, as much as I like the heady discussion concenring your bowel movements, are you going to take a stab at addressing my or Gorilla’s comments?

  • 7. Rutherford  |  April 21, 2011 at 9:34 am

    Going for an overnight at Old Sturbridge Village. See you guys and gals tomorrow! :-)

  • 8. an800lbgorilla  |  April 21, 2011 at 9:42 am

    I’m assuming that means no…

  • 9. an800lbgorilla  |  April 21, 2011 at 9:46 am

  • 10. Tex Taylor  |  April 21, 2011 at 9:59 am

    The whole historical story of Bo is suspect. The last confirmed record of his schooling appears to be a picture that he warmed the pine on his middle school basketball team.

    Think about Obama’s unknown history:

    No records of previous girl friends or high school friends for that matter?
    Little or no reported academic record, though we’ve been told Bo is a genius?
    Pens two autobiographies before famous?
    At 24, given $100M to disperse as community activist?
    Surrounded by black racists, Marxists, communists, and anarchists is his formative years, yet portrayed?
    Meteoric rise in politics with little or no successes or policies?

    It’s like this man was groomed by some really powerful people years ago, then accompanied by the perfect storm of war, recession, an unpopular predecessor, and a lousy opponent wins convincingly. But he didn’t just beat McCain – no, BO beats the Clinton election machine too.

    It’s actually a pretty scary story with some history in other countries of leading to a really bad ending.

  • 11. Car in  |  April 21, 2011 at 10:20 am

    Trump was pro-choice before he was pro-life and has no understanding of Roe v. Wade.

    I was pro-choice before I was pro-life. Is there a problem with this?

  • 12. El Tigre  |  April 21, 2011 at 10:26 am

    I used to go to Old Sturbridge for field trips all the time growing up. I doubt that the overnight is hosted by MSNBC, so maybe Rutherford will learn something about America before the civil rights movement while he’s there. Do you think the old-time racists portrayed at Sturbridge will allow you in as a guest or worker?

    Well, hell. It’s a little bit for a drive from CT. Rutherford, I’ll have someone meet you there to receive relay your response to me and Gorilla. The drive will give you time to think of a new series of non sequiturs. Win, win! :lol:

  • 13. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  April 21, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    Trump has his uses…he’s pissing the Left off, and talking over it’s noted geniuses, like Whoopie! Goldberg.

  • 14. El Tigre  |  April 21, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    Pure fortuity Rutherford:

    “Obama: Mistakes? Can’t think of any.”

    http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/04/obama-mistakes-cant-think-any

    So what was that you were saying about punchlines Rutherford?

  • 15. El Tigre  |  April 21, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    Trump — fighting narcissism with narcissism. I love it.

    I really do wonder whether Trump is part of an overall a strategy of diversion in playing this immature administration for the fools they are. Other than basking the glow of his own popularity, Obama is incapable of resisting the temptation of reacting to criticism. He is a more than a just a moth to flame too. Shouting down his critics is Obama’s substitute for leadership.

    Watching Trump push Obama’s buttons is priceless. Talk getting punk’d. Obama and his complicit media will focus on Trump like they do all of Obama’s critics e.g. Limbaugh, Palin, Buchanan, Fox News — shit, anybody that dare speak negatively about him.

    If it weren’t so depressing that he’s our so-called leader, the extra-fun part is watching Obama think he can “win” a name calling contest with non-elected media figures. It’s almost as good as Dukakis riding around in a tank.

  • 16. El Tigre  |  April 21, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    Sorry for the typos and grammatical errors guys. While I’m not willing to correct my mistakes, unlike Obama I am at least willing to admit them.

  • 17. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  April 21, 2011 at 3:47 pm

    Sorry for the typos and grammatical errors guys. While I’m not willing to correct my mistakes, unlike Obama I am at least willing to admit them.

    Its ok. I’m sure Chrissy “Tingles” Matthews is more than willing to forgive them, as long as you sit down and shut up. Afterall, as a stupid “conserv” you can’t help but to reveal your failings while trumpeting those you wrongly believe IWon EmptyArmani has.

  • 18. Tex Taylor  |  April 21, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    If it weren’t so depressing that he’s our so-called leader, the extra-fun part is watching Obama think he can “win” a name calling contest with non-elected media figures. It’s almost as good as Dukakis riding around in a tank.

    Great analogy Tigre. I almost picture Obama dressed up like Meadowlark Lemons with white wrist bands and headband, shooting 50ft hook shots with the yard crew retrieving the basketballs, while his economic advisers give him the bad news about the economy.

    The schlub is so unqualified to be President, it’s terrifying to think Bo has been there over 27 months now.

    It’s a testament to the strength of a once great America that it has lasted this long and been able to withstand the incompetence assault.

  • 19. Tex Taylor  |  April 21, 2011 at 5:07 pm

    In another sign apocalypse is upon us, I took Tigre’s loanshark monies he wired me and tallied my “silver investment”:

    AGQ PROSHARES TRUST II ULTRA SILVER Up +6.36%

    Market Value = $9,546.88
    Cost = $6,823.48
    Unrealized Gain 2,723.40 16:00 ET

    ROI = 39.91% :smile: :smile: :smile:

    In about 3-4 weeks. Not bad, hey? Wish I had brass balls and bought a thousand shares instead of 28 shares (chicken little). I’d actually have flown all you down for a big party!

    Commodity investing is such a joke anymore. 40% return in 21 days. Now I know how George Soros makes his billions.

    What’s that tell you about how the big boys feel about Obama’s monetary policy? I got tired of Meadowlark “Obama” Lemon stressing me daily – so I decided to capitalize on gross lib incompetence.

    I wish I had done this two years ago.

    My next big purchase might be wheat!

  • 20. El Tigre  |  April 21, 2011 at 5:43 pm

    Ah, stupid AND racist. :roll:

  • 21. Tex Taylor  |  April 21, 2011 at 7:04 pm

    Islamophobia = the irrational fear of being decapitated by jihadists. :lol:

    Rutherford, have I ever told you sound much like Joe Klein? Wag the Dog stuff? No? Listen to this and tell me if you’re really Joe.

  • 22. Tex Taylor  |  April 21, 2011 at 8:43 pm

    Mark this sorry bastard’s face in your memory book next time some Lib scolds you about your lack of civility. I’ll bet his lumpy ass looks like 300lbs of chewed bubble gum.

    http://bigjournalism.com/kschlichter/2011/04/21/trig-slimer-jack-stuef-take-that-disabled-child/

  • 23. Hucking Fypocrites  |  April 22, 2011 at 1:58 am

    So Donald Trump is a lying dumbass.

    And that makes him different than Barack Obama how?

    Shit, Obama won’t even discuss when he thinks life begins. He’s as bad as dog when he gets cornered.

    I’m not defending Trump. Like Colbert last election, I think he needs to STFU and stop making a potential mockery of our democracy. But seriously. The points you raised can so very easily be connected to the last man you voted for to run this country. And we told you his ass was a joke, too. Unfortunately, the current state of our country is the punchline to that joke.

    Laugh it up, Rutherford.

  • 24. El Tigre  |  April 22, 2011 at 9:38 am

    These people really are too despicable for words. I can’t believe the Beast ran this. Yet, they barely scratch the surface. They left
    out Bono, Sting, Trudie Styler, Gywneth Paltrow, Obama, Clinton. Gee, does Rutherford’s buddy Crazy Larry the non-accomplished politico script writer drive a Prius and recycle his botteld water bottles?

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/galleries/2829/1/

  • 25. El Tigre  |  April 22, 2011 at 9:41 am

    Andrew Klavan for President. :lol:

  • 26. Tex Taylor  |  April 22, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    So Huck, did you enjoy the retreat? Eat some good meals? Mingle with the locals? Or tangle with the jihadis? :smile:

    How was the trip?

  • 27. Tex Taylor  |  April 22, 2011 at 2:02 pm

    Two days ago, Matt Drudge linked to a new book by Jerome Corsi, unflinchingly titled Where’s the Birth Certificate? The book immediately leapt to number one on Amazon.com, where it has remained ever since. The media has shown its usual incredulity at the indisputable stupidity of the American people. How could so many people question President Obama’s birthplace? How could they wonder about his origins? Are they all simply racist?

    The answer, of course, is that Americans are desperately seeking an answer to a simple question: why does President Obama appear to be so un-American? The term un-American here is not synonymous with anti-American (though Obama has been that on occasion); instead, it merely signifies that President Obama is unconcerned with typical American principles and traditions…
    ….

    …Thus the stubborn belief that President Obama is born outside the United States. If he was, the unspoken logic goes, we can understand where he picked up his un-American philosophy. He is not one of us – he is rather a member of the same global community that despises America and tolerates Islamism, that slams American consumerism and praises Chinese communism, that rips evangelical Christianity while ignoring Muslim-imposed clitorectomy. We need not worry about our domestic institutions, goes the line of thought – instead, we must focus on protecting ourselves from foreign infiltration.

    http://frontpagemag.com/2011/04/22/about-the-birth-certificate/

  • 28. PFesser  |  April 22, 2011 at 2:47 pm

    Tex –

    The problem I have with the “birther” movement is not that I think it is bogus; it is that, in the face of the incredible fiscal malfeasance on the part of our govt – both the Congress and the Executive – that I believe threatens our very country itself – I don’t see chasing Obama’s birth certificate to be very important. An interesting diversion, perhaps, but in the face of REAL threats like we face now, it seems a triviality.

    To my eye, chasing such ideas as “he is not one of us” when our world is falling apart suggests that is not the real purpose to begin with. The real purpose is to deligitimize his presidency – to visit injury – rather than pursue a real concern. I think our energy needs to go elsewhere. Just my take on it.

  • 29. El Tigre  |  April 22, 2011 at 3:29 pm

    So it’s not an issue that we have a president, a self-described constitutional scholar, that lied to circumvent the provision of the very document he claims top hold sacrosanct and obtain an office he is not entitled to hold, and that’s not a significant concern because of what else is going on. :roll:

    Only a in the mind of a lib when it’s one of theirs. Pathetic.

  • 30. El Tigre  |  April 22, 2011 at 3:32 pm

    Incidentally, how much “energy” will Obama be putting into gaining reelection that could be channeled into contending with the crises you elevate above this petty concern? He’s certainly focused alot of energy on demonizing those that call his citizenship into question and prevent the production of the information that would exonerate him.

  • 31. El Tigre  |  April 22, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    \Who’s “energy” is beinf diverted? Obama doesn;t have to play along and hasn’t. Are you referring to the media or those that want to pursue it on their own dime?

  • 32. PFesser  |  April 22, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    El Tigre –

    “So it’s not an issue that we have a president, a self-described constitutional scholar, that lied to circumvent the provision of the very document he claims top hold sacrosanct and obtain an office he is not entitled to hold, and that’s not a significant concern because of what else is going on.”

    Precisely. When the future of the country itself is at stake, I couldn’t care less if he is a “real” citizen or not – because it has NO consequences either way. What “else is going on” does. In spades.

    For the record: I am not an Obama fan, but I think there are far more important things to ding him on than his citizenship. Like his policy, which I find most distasteful. Focusing on whether he is a citizen is to my mind very, very secondary to questions of whether we should be taking on another war (Libya) or running the economy into the ground by printing money until the presses melt.

    Also for the record: I am not a liberal. Nice try at a cheap shot. Let’s stick to the issues and leave the name-calling and personal stuff out of it, shall we?

  • 33. Tex Taylor  |  April 22, 2011 at 4:04 pm

    Pfesser,

    Oh, I agree – the “birther” brouhaha is a non issue for me, but one I find fascinating with the added bonus it annoys my pal Rutherford to no end. :smile:

    Before I answer your response, I want to say something to you and any other newcomers than might frequent here.

    Since you don’t know me as anything but the smart ass agitator at Fat Grannies, and probably don’t understand the history here unless you’ve been reading R.L. for a time, much of what happens at this blog is brotherly teasing that only the insiders would understand. I think I speak safely in telling you that the Conservatives that post here have a large degree of grudging respect for our friend Rutherford because (1) He always allows us to speak freely; (2) We acknowledge his unique talents; (3) He’s got a great sense of humor and I believe enjoys the give and take as much as we do; (4) Is a talented, and thought provoking writer. There was another liberal here named Jim Dougan (Hippie Professor) cut from the same cloth who unfortunately died late last year. We all were grieved by his passing. And I wish I conveyed to Jim before he unexpectedly died, that no matter how repulsed he was by some of my comments (and that was intentional on my behalf), I did like him. I wish he was still here to render my vote null and void.

    Still, Rutherford remains my favorite lib and one I consider a good blog friend. Whether I agree with Rutherford or not (and 98% of the time I don’t), I do acknowledge he is a talent and an interesting man.

    ——–

    To your point:

    In conjunction with the rest of the “unexplainables”, Bo’s lack of record troubles me greatly – I don’t want an enigma for President. I never held great expectations for Obama, as I called him here Jimmy Carter Redux in the summer of 2008, but he has been even more inept and more dangerously incompetent than my wildest dreams. I understand his winning the 2008 election – the perfect storm and the historical aspects. But I don’t understand the support now. I don’t know how anybody can deny in good faith that Obama has been an epic failure by any measure.

    I provided the rest of the opinion above because I do find much of what is contained a troubling pattern aided and magnified by the malignant narcissism of Obama. I don’t find Obama a serious leader in a deadly serious world. He’s absolutely the wrong President at the wrong time IMO, and we will pay the collective price soon.

    For instance…

    Campaign stumps the same day it’s announced the inevitable downgrade in our ‘AAA’ ratings? $14.3Trillion in debt? No discernible foreign policy to speak? A habit of surrounding himself with fools, anarchists, socialists masquerading as experts?

    I’ve been studying our monetary situation Pfesser, and I tell you this – no matter the choice of how I manage my own personal family finances, I don’t see a soft landing through no fault of my own.

    I honestly believe our economy is teetering. Try to retain capital and inflation will kill you. Remain invested in equities and there’s a good chance of repeating 2008. The world markets are telling us that our own monetary policy in disarray. By the end of this summer or possibly fall, I think we will be in serious economic trouble that will be visible to all.

    And I think that queasy feeling is becoming palpable to about everyone with sense.

    Hope I’m wrong.

  • 34. PFesser  |  April 22, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    Tex –

    I really appreciate the background about the blog. I certainly do not want to piss in the garden, so to speak, and am very appreciative of tradition.

    If I get a little out of hand, help me get back in line. I want my transition to this blog to be smooth. It seems to be a real find. The “brotherly” give and take kind of makes me understand how pathetic some of the other blogs I’ve been on really are.

    Re: economy. I have saved and invested for a long time and I am like you. I don’t see a smooth end to this fucking disaster. It is really scary how quickly incompetent leaders can drive even great enterprises like the United States into the toilet. This is not going to end well. I just bought plows for my tractor and superinsulated my home. I am paying the remainder of my mortgage as fast as I can get the money freed up.

  • 35. El Tigre  |  April 22, 2011 at 4:27 pm

    “Also for the record: I am not a liberal. Nice try at a cheap shot. Let’s stick to the issues and leave the name-calling and personal stuff out of it, shall we?”

    Nope. :lol:

    Welcome to RL!

    (I see Tex filled you in).

    But unlike Tex, I have a HUGE problem if he lied about citizenship not so ironically for the same reasons you don’t. I frankly believe he probably is a citizen. Which is why he needs to put the matter to rest rather than focusing his “energy” on something that will be pursued regardless of anything you’ve said.

  • 36. PFesser  |  April 22, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    “Also for the record: I am not a liberal. Nice try at a cheap shot. Let’s stick to the issues and leave the name-calling and personal stuff out of it, shall we?”

    Nope. :lol:

    Well, by god, same to you.

    Reminds me of Patton and the Russian General. “Let’s drink to it.” “You tell him I won’t drink with him or any other Russian sonofabitch.” “He says you are a sonofabitch too.” “I’ll drink to that – one sonofabitch to another.”

    I LIKE this place.

  • 37. Tex Taylor  |  April 22, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    Pfesser,

    Rutherford could explain it better than I could but here goes…

    If I get a little out of hand, help me get back in line. I want my transition to this blog to be smooth.

    You can’t get out of hand. If that were the rule, Rutherford would have booted me sixteen seconds into my first post.

    It seems to be a real find.

    I think it’s a hidden gem, and I consider the regular posters here some of the most talented and most humorous I’ve read – and they come from diverse walks of life. For no other reason, stick around for Rabbit’s rants. Classics!

    The “brotherly” give and take kind of makes me understand how pathetic some of the other blogs I’ve been on really are.

    I think you’ll like it. I like to think of Rutherford’s place as the scene from the Blues Brothers, with Rutherford playing Dan Aykroyd singing Rawhide, and we throw beer bottles at the chicken wire in appreciation for his “talents.” :twisted:

  • 38. Rutherford  |  April 22, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    I’m baaaaaaaaaack.

    Do you know what grades Obama got in college?

    How about what papers he wrote while in school or as the editor of the Harvard Law Review?

    Have you seen the official birth certificate?

    Send me to the web sites documenting the college transcripts of George W. Bush, George H.W. Bush, Ronald Reagan, Gerald Ford and Richard Nixon.

    I have no idea about the papers he wrote while at Harvard. Maybe he became Law Review President as a token black? Wouldn’t surprise me. It happens.

    I have seen the Certificate of Live Birth which the State of Hawaii (and the United States Federal government) say is valid legal evidence of citizenship, sufficient to get a passport, for example notwithstanding your son.

    Trump goes so far as to ask “why is there no one who says they went to school with him in Hawaii”. Well I have an answer to that one too. I have a classmate at Harvard who went to school with Obama in Hawaii.

    Perhaps there is a reason beyond A and B Gorilla. Maybe it’s C: “How dare you motherf*ckers who have never questioned the legitimacy of a white President try to put me through the ringer. F*CK YOU.”

  • 39. dead rabbit  |  April 22, 2011 at 6:28 pm

    Dude. Come on. Personally, I’ve seen enough proof to believe Obama to be a citizen. But, Obama’s past isn’t stereotypical to blacks either. The dude is an intercontinental motherfucker. Common sense dictates you probably should release a little more of your past and be transparent.

    If some Americans want the most powerful person in the world and THEIR President to release the long form, why wouldn’t he just do it?

    Oh I forgot, he can turn it into an issue that “victimizes” him. Perfect for the party of victims.

    Of course, like marching orders, R takes the bait as usual. Yawn.

  • 40. Rutherford  |  April 22, 2011 at 7:20 pm

    I was pro-choice before I was pro-life. Is there a problem with this?

    Car-in I’d ask you the same question that Trump was asked … what changed your mind? Now, his answer barring his ignorance of Roe v. Wade, was plausible, i.e. that until he got an up close and personal look at how abortion changes lives, he was pro-choice. I can accept that. But the fact that he couldn’t tie privacy issues to abortion means he’s not as smart as he says he is. If you’re running for office and you take a position, you’ve got to do your homework.

  • 41. Rutherford  |  April 22, 2011 at 7:25 pm

    Rutherford, I’ll have someone meet you there …

    You should’ve contacted Alfie … I think he’s a MA resident. :-)

    But Tigre you guessed my reaction to OSV completely. As I scootered around the place I was struck by the Christianity of it and of course the white-ness of it. But like they say, “ain’t that America!” I also saw something that bothered me and I’m currently debating with myself whether to comment on it here or devote a full post to it. ;-)

  • 42. Rutherford  |  April 22, 2011 at 7:28 pm

    Trump has his uses…he’s pissing the Left off, and talking over it’s noted geniuses, like Whoopie! Goldberg.

    Yeah BiW and making sure no one with a snowball’s chance in hell of beating Obama gets any attention this week.

    Typical GOPher, cutting off your nose to spite your face just to get the hunger of your Obama-hate satisfied. It’s almost a shame the joke will be over by the end of May. A real Trump run would guarantee Obama a second term.

  • 43. Rutherford  |  April 22, 2011 at 7:34 pm

    Regarding 15, Tigre, I haven’t seen Obama address Trump directly at all so your comment has lost me.

    But I do agree with you about one thing although you didn’t say it quite explicitly. The liberal media has fanned this flame beyond all proportion. Chris Matthews led with it practically every day this week. I wrote one post … unless something really big happens, I won’t be writing another.

    Two American photojournalists got killed in Libya, a country we probably should not be in right now, and Hardball leads with Donald Trump.

  • 44. Tex Taylor  |  April 22, 2011 at 7:34 pm

    Rutherford, (tsk tsk)

    Are you still having gas? :smile: Now behave for your new guests. I’m not going to drag them over here and have you making racist statements at them, you racist. :twisted:

    Me, I am not questioning Obama’s citizenship. I’m questioning Obama’s white bread quotient. Most black guys have far better jump shots, and Obama jumps like a white man.

    Welcome back.

  • 45. Tex Taylor  |  April 22, 2011 at 7:44 pm

    Rutherford, you tickle me when you get bent.

    But Tigre you guessed my reaction to OSV completely. As I scootered around the place I was struck by the Christianity of it and of course the white-ness of it.

    What were you expecting? Out of Africa? The whitness? The Christianity?

    Well, yeah. :smile:

  • 46. Rutherford  |  April 22, 2011 at 7:44 pm

    On the Daily Beast Earth Day poseurs … the biggest gripe against most of them is that they fly. Really? Air travel is a virtual necessity of celebrity. So you’re asking them to quit their jobs in the name of the environment?

  • 47. Rutherford  |  April 22, 2011 at 7:55 pm

    Thus the stubborn belief that President Obama is born outside the United States.

    Tex this has got to be biggest crock of illogical sh*t ever to float to the top of the media toilet bowl.

    Obama’s “strangeness” if one is to believe in it, comes from being RAISED outside the United States …. DUMBASS!!!! He grew up for several years in Indonesia. He was told stories by his white grandfather about his Kenyan father. He has had a life experience that is not typical of most mainland Americans. And YES … growing up in Hawaii is not the same as growing up in Kansas. For most of his childhood he was not surrounded by what most of us consider “real Americans” e.g. white people. He actually knows from life experience that sh*t goes on beyond the 48 contiguous states.

    Now is moron Benjamin Shapiro going to suggest that if you are born in Kenya and on the third day of your life you move to Kansas and you’re raised there, that you’ll end up “different”? Where you are born has butkus to do with how you wind up. Where you are raised informs your future. Shapiro seems too stupid to know the difference.

  • 48. an800lbgorilla  |  April 22, 2011 at 8:42 pm

    I’ve seen many stories, just by googling, of W’s, Reagan’s and Nixon’s education, to include what their grades were. Nothing for Obama except for stories talking about the lack there of.

    As for your FUCK YOU. Kiss my WHITE ASS. I’m sick and tired of your fuckers throwing race into everything because you don’t have a legitimate answer to a legitimate question. So when in doubt, plop down the card. And I’m sorry, anyone who went to Harvard can just shut the fuck up about oppression and discrimination. You’re rolling in a Mercedes, you’ve made six figures, which means you’ve been in the top 10% ass clown.

    Neither you, or the clown on 1600 Pennsylvania, get to tell me about how hard they had it. I guarentee that my upbring was far harder than anything you can even imagine, and I’ll bet dollars to donuts I’ve had more racism directed at me than you’ve ever dreamed of- all from minorities. So take your little card, and shove it right up your clogged ass.

  • 49. an800lbgorilla  |  April 22, 2011 at 8:56 pm

    The New York Times is burrying the lead on their latest poll. The numbers are just brutal for the White House:

    70% of Americans feel things in this country are seriously off on the wrong track. That is the highest number since the 79% registered in 1/11/09 when President Bush was still in office.
    80% rate the national economy as bad (44% fairly/36% very). Only 19% rate it as good (2% very/17% fairly).
    39% think the economy is getting worse, only 23% say it is getting better. Last month those numbers were even at 26. In February they were flipped at 32% better, 22% worse.
    57% disapprove of Obama’s handling of the economy. That is the highest disapproval measured by the CBS/NYT poll. His 38% approval is matched only once by a pre-Democractic election wipe out October poll.
    59% disapprove of Obama’s handling of the federal budget. Also the highest CBS/NYT has ever measured that number.
    Obama’s Libya approval numbers have completely flipped from 50/29 approve in March to 45/39 disapprove today.
    46% disapprove of the way Obama is handling foreign policy. That is the highest number ever for Obama in a CBS/NYT poll. His 39% approval on FP is also his lowest score ever.
    55% tell NYT/CBS they would rather have a smaller government providing fewer services. Only 33% want a bigger government with more services.
    When asked “Do you think Barack Obama has the same priorities for the country as you have, or doesn’t he?” 53% said no and 43% said yes. When Obama was inaugurated those numbers were 65% and 28% no.

  • 50. dead rabbit  |  April 22, 2011 at 9:00 pm

    Why doesn’t President Transparent just release the long form and be done with it? Its so damn weird. I would have bet money it would have been released by now.

    Your the President of the United States, release the stupid thing. People want to see it, and may even have a right to see it. Who gives a shit.

    What a weird thing to draw a line in the sand over.

    Rutherford, why do you think he won’t release the silly paper work?

    I don’t get it.

  • 51. an800lbgorilla  |  April 22, 2011 at 9:00 pm

  • 52. dead rabbit  |  April 22, 2011 at 9:39 pm

    The fucked up thing is that this birth certificate debacle is the ONE bitterly debated issue that the President COULD solve!

    Here we have one divisive issue that can be actually fixed!

    It would be a relief. Finally, an argument put to rest on the American political landscape.

    But no go.

    Instead we get privileged yuppy bloggers telling his “racist” blog readers to fuck off and a comedic celebrity making a mockery of the forthcoming election.

    Ah…breath it in fellahs. That’s hope and change you smell.

  • 53. dead rabbit  |  April 22, 2011 at 9:46 pm

    I also can’t believe Qudaffy is still in power. More money I would have bet and lost.

    Why kind of help rebels you kind of trust. Its kind of fucking embarrassing.

  • 54. dead rabbit  |  April 22, 2011 at 9:50 pm

    ” If you’re running for office and you take a position, you’ve got to do your homework.”-R

    Unless its above your pay grade.

  • 55. El Tigre  |  April 22, 2011 at 10:26 pm

    Rutherford, obviously you’re backed up again. You are so full of shit.

    I love the simulated outrage with this accusation couched as arhetorical question:

    “How dare you motherf*ckers who have never questioned the legitimacy of a white President try to put me through the ringer. F*CK YOU.”

    Followed by the answer, logical, yet equally filled with the outrage of a supposed victim:

    “Obama’s “strangeness” if one is to believe in it, comes from being RAISED outside the United States …. DUMBASS!!!! He grew up for several years in Indonesia. He was told stories by his white grandfather about his Kenyan father. He has had a life experience that is not typical of most mainland Americans. And YES … growing up in Hawaii is not the same as growing up in Kansas. For most of his childhood he was not surrounded by what most of us consider “real Americans” e.g. white people. He actually knows from life experience that sh*t goes on beyond the 48 contiguous states.”

    No other explanation other than racism, huh?

    (*holds head in hands, weeps, shakes, curls into fetal position. . .)

  • 56. El Tigre  |  April 22, 2011 at 10:33 pm

    “I haven’t seen Obama address Trump directly at all so your comment has lost me.”

    Yes, it’s been the other way around. The complicit media the Rutherford Lawson blog are doing his bidding (as I said).

    Moreover, you think he won’t come out and take shots at Trump personally (once he gets off the golf course where his “energy” seems to be focused that is). My point is that, if history is any indication, he will. And it will backfire. Predictably.

  • 57. El Tigre  |  April 22, 2011 at 10:38 pm

    “Really? Air travel is a virtual necessity of celebrity. So you’re asking them to quit their jobs in the name of the environment?”

    Did I or the author say that celebrities shouldn’t travel by air? Did you even bother to read/watch before running to the defense? That’s your summation? Are you on drugs?

  • 58. El Tigre  |  April 22, 2011 at 10:40 pm

    “including the Rutherford Lawson blog”

  • 59. dead rabbit  |  April 22, 2011 at 10:48 pm

    “Followed by the answer, logical, yet equally filled with the outrage of a supposed victim”-Tigre

    Lol. Exactly what I was thinking.

    R throws a sissy fit and calls Gorilla a racist for supposedly treating Obama unique then goes on to explain to us how unique Obama’s background is (black or white).

    MSNBC consistently makes a laughing stock out of Rutherford.

    Rutherford, don’t you want him to release the damn thing?

    There is no way there is not something on that long form which President Transparent deems politically damaging.

  • 60. Tex Taylor  |  April 22, 2011 at 10:57 pm

    Mr. “R”,

    I didn’t mean for that article to send you rocketing into the heavens. I posted it so you could understand why many people have doubts about Bo, and why they don’t trust what they’re hearing. And I’m one of them.

  • 61. poolman  |  April 22, 2011 at 11:46 pm

    Yeah, like if we could just see Trig’s birth certificate, it would put all those silly rumors to rest, too. It should be just like it is here in Arizona – show ‘em if you got ‘em.

    To think someone could be elected without being a US citizen in this day and age? Nuts. And given his mom was a full-fledged US citizen. What’s the problem? These political antics constantly entertain/occupy the masses. Baaa, baahhh.

    Now if you want to go down the road that Hawai’i is not legally a state…

    Trump is such a sleazy character. I don’t care how much money he does or doesn’t have. That guy always creeps me out. He’s riding the publicity bus, as usual. Such a media hound. This all translates as capital to him. Quite the caricature of the capitalist/colonialist. We’ve come a long way, baby. :lol:

  • 62. Rutherford  |  April 22, 2011 at 11:46 pm

    I’ve seen many stories, just by googling, of W’s, Reagan’s and Nixon’s education

    I call bullsh*t Gorilla … big time.

    No one gets a peek at my Harvard transcript without my signing a release. When I applied to biz school in 1985 I actually had to go to the damn registrar’s office to get a copy of the transcript and sign a release. So this notion that specific academic records are public fodder that a candidate has to go to great lengths to hide is pure unadulterated bullsh*t.

    And you can cry “I’ve been more of a victim as a white guy than you’ll ever know” until the cows come home. In some circles (not all) folks don’t believe that a black man can do sh*t and they question his qualifications when they wouldn’t question a white guy. If you don’t believe that, you live in la-la land. Stating fact is not playing the race card.

    I’ll give you a concrete example unrelated to race, but related to handicap instead.

    It’s 1984 and I’ve been working for a well known corporation for a year or so. Back in those glory days, they had country clubs in several locations. I went to the nearest one to sign up. I walked around the grounds and finally asked a grounds keeper in a dirty outfit where the main building was to sign up for membership. The dude said “well, you have to work for Acme first.” You wanna guess why he felt he had to give me that obvious bit of info? Cos there was no way this clearly disabled dude (me) could possibly be an Acme employee. And here’s the double-rub. If I had been a f*cking snob, I would never have asked the guy because he didn’t “look” like someone who might have an answer, but I put aside my prejudices only to be met by his.

    So don’t tell me about playing “cards” and don’t tell me that because I’ve had success I’m supposed to ignore sh*t that has gone down and still goes down.

  • 63. dead rabbit  |  April 22, 2011 at 11:54 pm

    Lol…pre-judged at the country club. Oh the horrors.

    He probably typed that with an intense face.

  • 64. Rutherford  |  April 23, 2011 at 12:01 am

    Rutherford, why do you think he won’t release the silly paper work?

    I don’t get it.

    Let’s take the Trump motive for one minute. “There’s something on that form he doesn’t want us to see.” Who knows? Maybe that’s true but to be a birther you must believe that he was born in Kenya and is an illegitimate President, NOT that something on his long form birth certificate is embarrassing.

    Perhaps he was adopted by his Indonesian step father and the long form certificate was changed to reflect the new Dad who if I’m not mistaken was officially Muslim? Maybe he didn’t want to fan the “Obama is really Muslim” foolishness?

    Maybe it’s a record screw up in Hawaii? I have no idea why the long form is not easily available for release but I do know the short form is legally sufficient to prove citizenship so case-f*cking-closed.

    Rabbit, I maintain you shouldn’t be wondering “why won’t Obama release the long form”, you should be asking why do people want to see it when they haven’t given a sh*t about the citizenship of any other President prior to Obama. Why is Obama, coincidentally the first black President, also the first to have his very biography cast into doubt?

    Some of you dudes have gone completely Manchurian Candidate and it’s embarrassing. I’ve dealt with all of you long enough to feel that none of you are racists … and Gorilla and Tigre, if you think I’m saying you are, you’re wrong. BUT the core of this birther movement is unease at having an exotic President. It’s about having a President who’s had a very different kind of life … and that’s threatening to lots of people. For many others it’s pure political calculation.

    But I’ll tell you this … it’s on a par with saying (as Larry Flynt famously did) that Jerry Falwell had sex with his mother in an out-house. It’s trash talk with destructive motives.

  • 65. dead rabbit  |  April 23, 2011 at 12:02 am

    Rutherford, you crack me up, man.

    I just want to see the long form because Obama won’t let me!

    I’m not a racist, I’m curious!

    Why would the President act this way? Its a fucking birth certificate!

    I’ve had to show mine to play little league one year!

    Just show us the damn thing already.

  • 66. Rutherford  |  April 23, 2011 at 12:03 am

    HOWEVER!!!! I haven’t read the article yet, but apparently the roots of this crazy birther phenom may actually have started with … brace yourself … liberals!!! Specifically PUMA sore losers who could never swallow that Hillary got her ass whupped. Once I read the article, I’ll post a link to it. It is an interesting development.

  • 67. dead rabbit  |  April 23, 2011 at 12:07 am

    Wrong. It was started by the guy who won’t show the long form birth certificate.

    Do you feel showing the long form is an intrusion of the President’s privacy or something?

    Come on, keep it real. You want to see it, too!

  • 68. Rutherford  |  April 23, 2011 at 12:09 am

    It would be a relief. Finally, an argument put to rest on the American political landscape.

    You’re kidding right? The argument will never be put to rest. Will you EVER convince Poolman that there is not more to 9/11 than Al-Qaeda blowing the damn thing up?

    Conspiracy theorists CANNOT be satisfied and that is probably another reason why we haven’t seen the long form … because to the insane birther, it means nothing. It’s a forgery or it’s the birth certificate of some OTHER Barack Obama.

    When you give in to these birthers you let them control the agenda and you give up your dignity. The man provided legal proof of citizenship. Case-f*cking-closed.

  • 69. Rutherford  |  April 23, 2011 at 12:11 am

    Its kind of fucking embarrassing.

    What’s embarrassing is old man McCain going over there with his “we’re all rebels now” shtick. For all he knows they’re a bunch of lop-your-head-off nutjobs. I suggest he gets the hell out of Libya before he finds out.

    (Although from what I understand, for those who had actually heard of him, he got hero’s welcome.)

  • 70. Rutherford  |  April 23, 2011 at 12:15 am

    No other explanation other than racism, huh?

    Well Tigre feel free to tell me what kind of “ism” it is. I’ll tell you for damn sure it is an “ism” of some sort when you (not you personally) get bent out of shape because someone has had a different life experience from you. That’s an “ism”.

  • 71. dead rabbit  |  April 23, 2011 at 12:16 am

    Of course this whole thing is about having an “exotic” president. What’s so horrifying about that?

    Dude has connections all over the world and came out of nowhere.

    As far as I know, my birth certificate IS the long form. So, its too offensive to ask the President to show the same form I had to show to play little league baseball? Seriously? The POTUS?

  • 72. Rutherford  |  April 23, 2011 at 12:18 am

    Did I or the author say that celebrities shouldn’t travel by air? Did you even bother to read/watch before running to the defense? That’s your summation? Are you on drugs?

    What I read implied that someone who is environmentally conscious but flies from venue to venue in a private jet is a hypocrite. I ask, do you want them to take a train, a bus, a bike or walk?

  • 73. dead rabbit  |  April 23, 2011 at 12:18 am

    Skepticism

    That’s all. Not the end of the world. Show the silly form.

  • 74. Tex Taylor  |  April 23, 2011 at 12:23 am

    Obama lacks integrity “R”. The man has no principles – the consummate pandering politician. Forget the birth certificate – Obama promised us transparency in all dealings. That’s been complete baloney from the git go and virtually everything the schmuck does is secretive, backhanded, or behind closed doors – from Obamacare to his greasy Czars.

    Face it Rutherford – Obama is simply not that bright, nor that talented. He’s a thin-skinned soundbite reading the prepared script. It’s the cult of personality. The media narrative isn’t flying anymore.

    .

  • 75. dead rabbit  |  April 23, 2011 at 12:23 am

    Come on, someone flies event to event essentially telling people they shouldn’t fly event to event doesn’t bug you in the least.

    Oh I forgot, some people are more important then others.

  • 76. Rutherford  |  April 23, 2011 at 12:26 am

    I’ve had to show mine to play little league one year!

    So let me get this ,,, you had to show yours to play Little League but Obama has gotten all the way to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue without showing his? You are kidding right? The short form is all he has ever had to show …. until now.

    And you can chuckle about country club discrimination all you want. First of all, it wasn’t a real “country club” in the exclusive sense of the term. The company just called them that cos they had golf courses and you did have to be an employee to belong to them. Second, the exact circumstances are really immaterial. It’s about lowered expectations and assumptions based on prejudice. It’s not really that hard to understand.

  • 77. dead rabbit  |  April 23, 2011 at 12:30 am

    Tex, Rutherford doesn’t care about Transparency anymore. Its like Gitmo.

    He’s more concerned Obama might have to go through that hellish experience Rutherford endured at the Country Club.

  • 78. Tex Taylor  |  April 23, 2011 at 12:33 am

    It’s about lowered expectations and assumptions based on prejudice. It’s not really that hard to understand.

    Your personal analogy isn’t applicable to Obama…shouldn’t you be glad people are holding Obama to a high standard?

  • 79. Rutherford  |  April 23, 2011 at 12:34 am

    Rabbit … different states have different standards for documenting birth. My guess is some states don’t even have a “short form”.

    Skepticism is a fine thing when it resembles sanity. I’m skeptical about Obama being a devout Christian … I think he’s a political Christian and in truth, an atheist. I gather that from his history and behavior. I’m skeptical about whether or not he has any ideological core … I’m not sure he’s a true-blue liberal. But I have no reason to be skeptical about his citizenship.

    No, I don’t want to see his long form. I hope he never shows it. It would give too much satisfaction to a bunch of imbeciles.

  • 80. Rutherford  |  April 23, 2011 at 12:37 am

    LOL Rabbit you’re on a roll.

    Well I guess if you can document these folks telling people not to fly, then I’ll sign up for the hypocrite accusation.

    A better criticism (which I think has been made of Gore) is telling folks to use solar panels when your house doesn’t have a single solar panel. Now that’s hypocrisy.

  • 81. Rutherford  |  April 23, 2011 at 12:39 am

    BTW, how many times do I have to say I don’t like the way Obama has handled Gitmo and rendition before you hear it?

    Then again, it doesn’t help the effort to close Gitmo when Congress won’t fund moving the prisoners elsewhere. :neutral:

  • 82. Rutherford  |  April 23, 2011 at 12:42 am

    shouldn’t you be glad people are holding Obama to a high standard?

    What’s the high standard? There is only one standard … you CANNOT be President unless you are a natural born citizen. THAT is THE standard. He met the standard. His short-form birth certificate proves it. End of story. UNLESS having a Kenyan father is just too much for some folks to handle.

  • 83. dead rabbit  |  April 23, 2011 at 12:42 am

    Rutherford. This is a republic. He’s our president. What good is it if he doesn’t show us, the people!

    As for your horrifying experience at the Country Club, it was benign.

    You weren’t victimized. You simply didn’t fit into a pattern. And patterns are how we navigate the world. You didn’t get unfairly screwed over.

    That kind of stuff happens to me all the time.

    You get treated like an ignorant caveman when you work on a roof crew. I can’t count the times homeowners pre-judged me.

    So yeah, your example of oppression due to prejudice is lacking.

  • 84. Rutherford  |  April 23, 2011 at 12:42 am

    I’m going to bed ….. Good to be back! :lol:

  • 85. Tex Taylor  |  April 23, 2011 at 12:44 am

    is a fine thing when it resembles sanity. I’m skeptical about Obama being a devout Christian … I think he’s a political Christian and in truth, an atheist. I gather that from his history and behavior. I’m skeptical about whether or not he has any ideological core … I’m not sure he’s a true-blue liberal. But I have no reason to be skeptical about his citizenship.

    You’re carrying the water of a liar and Judas then. :neutral: And you prove that every day in your defense of Obama by straining the gnat of Obama’s citizenship and shallowing the camel of ineptness, secrecy and corruption.

  • 86. Rutherford  |  April 23, 2011 at 12:45 am

    I can’t count the times homeowners pre-judged me.

    And I would understand if that slightly pissed you off.

    Believe me, I didn’t lose a lot of sleep over it. But it was wild that I gave that guy the benefit of the doubt and got no benefit back.

  • 87. poolman  |  April 23, 2011 at 12:56 am

    It’s easier to criticize Obama’s lack of transparency and call him a liar for not following through with his campaign promises than it is to rather see the office as a mere political puppet position, with others actually calling the shots. Like our military strategy. You can’t have it both ways. Either he has been an extremely effective Trojan horse, duping the public and successfully carrying the neocon agenda into the office of the administration, or he has no control over policy.

    I’ve been showing you the latter is the case. It is the logical answer. JFK was the last POTUS that stood up to the real power. See how far that went? LBJ was happy to suck up to the real bosses. But go ahead and make him the scapegoat.

  • 88. poolman  |  April 23, 2011 at 1:17 am

    Happy Frickin’ Earth Day!

  • 89. Hucking Fypocrites  |  April 23, 2011 at 1:45 am

    Tex, I am actually still here. Just catching a bit of Internet time here and there. To be honest, this trip has been less than enjoyable, even though NYC is fun. Remember, I am helping to babysit 21 college students in the Big Apple. I haven’t watched any TV, and still getting my fair share of drama.

    Tomorrow I get to go to the UN Grand Hall and sit at the table where the delegation we are representing sits, and play with the voting buttons and such. I’d love to tell you guys what country we represented this year but it could pretty easily lead to me being outed. But it would sure lead to some fun times, as you guys would surely give me a BUNCH of shit about it…lol.

    And my old dog decided she aint ready to go, quite yet. Vet sent her home with a relatively positive outlook.

    Its been quite a roller coaster week.

    “Then again, it doesn’t help the effort to close Gitmo when Congress won’t fund moving the prisoners elsewhere.”

    And why didn’t Barry’s buddies fund it when they had 100% control over everything?

    “Send me to the web sites documenting the college transcripts of George W. Bush, George H.W. Bush, Ronald Reagan, Gerald Ford and Richard Nixon.”

    Send us the examples of people bragging up how smart those guys were before they were even elected then we can start making those comparisons. Obama’s education was a selling point. That can’t be said of the names you mentioned.

    “Yeah, like if we could just see Trig’s birth certificate…”

    Wow. Things have really changed since I have been away from the TV. I wasn’t aware that Trig Palin had become the President of the United States of America.

    “For all he knows they’re a bunch of lop-your-head-off nutjobs.”

    For all Obama knows, that’s what they are, too. That isn’t stopping him from helping them, is it?

    After hearing kids debate for a week, this shit is waaaaaay too easy…..

  • 90. PFesser  |  April 23, 2011 at 4:45 am

    Rutherford opined:

    “BUT the core of this birther movement is unease at having an exotic President. It’s about having a President who’s had a very different kind of life … and that’s threatening to lots of people. For many others it’s pure political calculation. ”

    No. And yes.

    IMHO this current politics-of-personal-destruction came about during the first Clinton administration (Clit-on?), and I trace it directly to Limbaugh. I was building an airplane during that time and was in my workshop 6-7 hours EVERY day, with talk radio in the background. It was cool then to hear somebody really raise hell and not be afraid to lay it on the line, but that method has gotten completely out of hand and has become de rigueur for both sides now. The Right has raised it to an art form. Now it is acceptable to use *any* level of rhetoric against a politician, which of course is what the Right is doing against Bo. Don’t get me wrong; he deserves a lot of criticism, but much of it, IMHO, results from the Right’s incredulity that the country had the temerity to vote against them in the last election.

    Well, save your Confederate money, boys – unless you get over your love affair with the Religious Right, the ReBiblicans will fall again. And again. And again. And it will be done by us Independents, who used to love you and *be* Republicans, but now want to vomit at the sight of you.

  • 91. El Tigre  |  April 23, 2011 at 10:44 am

    “No, I don’t want to see his long form. I hope he never shows it. It would give too much satisfaction to a bunch of imbeciles.”

    Yeah. Proving that everyone was a complete ass for questioning his citizenship. Such satisfaction in allowing questions to persist where uncovering the document would have imbeciles shown to be imbeciles. How unsatisfying. :roll:

    If your circular MSNBC reasoning is all there is, I really, really now think that there’s something to this. And I love that it’s an issue in the run up big time. You have no idea how ridiculous your “case fucking closed” summation sounds. Don’t you have a shooting to accuse someone of complicity or at least raise questions about without proof? Pffft!

    R, welcome back. Sorry you suffered such oppression in your country club admission. Or at least all the sensitivities that a grounds keeper who was supposed to be working for YOU but didn’t recognize that showed. An imperfect assesment from the grounds keeper. Boo-fucking-hoo. Such injustice. :lol: Poor Obama having to suffer the same fate at the hands of his constituents no less.

    I used to carry golf clubs for rich fat cats a country club. Caddy Shack (movie) struck a chord. Who’d have thunk you couldn’t become one of them without having to endure the indignities of an imperfect world that didn’t judge you properly.

    Now what were you and Graychin saying about my racism?

  • 92. El Tigre  |  April 23, 2011 at 10:48 am

    PF, wipe your feet on the mat before entering. You’ve been at Fat Grannies. Don’t you be tracking that dog shit through here.

  • 93. Tex Taylor  |  April 23, 2011 at 11:03 am

    The nasty politics of personal destruction goes way before Bill Clinton PFesser.

    The attack of personal destruction came long before Rush Limbaugh was but a local radio host of Sacramento. Reading a little about you, I”m going to assume you’re at least as old as I am (50). And if I’m right, I’m not sure how in the world you could forget about the Robert Bork or Clarence Thomas affairs. That was about as sordid as it gets, and in the case of Robert Bork, was led by a Jr. Senator from Delaware named Joe Biden. That changed my politic forever.

    Ronald Reagan was trashed by the main stream media, called everything from B Actor to stupid by Richard Reeves and Time Magazine. Then it became so evident that the man was perhaps the most successful President of the 20th century, even the MSM couldn’t cover their lies and rank propaganda anymore. They gave it a damn good try well into the 90s, but it never flew. The Left (like you) likes to pretend they didn’t like George Jr., but Sr. was ‘a good man.’ My memory isn’t that bad, as they trashed the elder Bush daily.

    Well, save your Confederate money, boys – unless you get over your love affair with the Religious Right, the ReBiblicans will fall again. And again. And again. And it will be done by us Independents, who used to love you and *be* Republicans, but now want to vomit at the sight of you.

    Then cast your vote for Obama again and start vomiting, because here you are going to be vastly outnumbered and I feel confident completely outgunned. I encourage you to give Bo another four years – for as long as it lasts.

    I think you are clueless to the real demographics of America Pfesser, and like Obama and Rutherford, have completely misread the results of both the 2006 and 2008 elections. I don’t believe the irreligious supposed “independent” carries near as much clout as you’d like many of us to believe. You may have a hostility toward religion, but it surpassed by your love affair with your wallet. There’s unbelief or flippant attitude, and then there is hostility toward religion – you obviously have the latter and will be challenged.

    Obama didn’t win because of the ReBiblicans – in fact, many of them voted for him. Even Obama knows better that you in that regard, and it won’t be six months before he’ll be pandering with his ‘love of Jesus’ (cough cough) talk again. He did it as recently as last week while talking about Easter. You don’t think Bo graced Rick Warren’s church for nothing, do you?

    Obama won because of the fickle American public, and the serendipity of unpopular war and sitting President, financial fiasco in large part caused by Dimocrats and masked by the dinosaur media, a pathetic historical white guilt which I believe has waned dramatically, and a teleprompting soundbite too many thought sounded like wonderful change. Throw in the worst candidate the Republicans could have fielded, and Obama won convincingly – but not a rout. And until Lehman folded, McCain was ahead in the polls.

    2008 was the final straw of demonstrating to me just how superficial and shallow America really is. But Americans have always understand pain. And unlike 2008, Obama now has a record – an incredibly poor one and the national mood is becoming more grumpy by the day.

    Gone are the days of the “profundity” of “We Are The Ones”, glib sound bites, and believing Obama will provide the free rent. Free rent went to $5.00 a gallon gasoline.

    The real truth is even a decent Republican candidate wins. A good one wins in a landslide. It remains to be seen if someone steps up as the field incredibly lame at this minute. But that is a lot different as saying there are no potential candidates out there.

    But I can assure you one thing – your type, whether defined loosely as former RINO or irreligious militant under the guise of ‘independent’, carries little or no clout outside progressive politic. A much better fit for the Dimocratic party.

  • 94. PFesser  |  April 23, 2011 at 11:32 am

    “But I can assure you one thing – your type, whether defined loosely as former RINO or irreligious militant under the guise of ‘independent’, carries little or no clout outside progressive politic. A much better fit for the Dimocratic party.”

    You know nothing of my “type” – least of all, what “type” that is. I’ll give you a leg up. My type is that which is interested in *what* is right, not *who*. In that regard you may see criticisms from me of any party and all candidates, when appropriate.

    And thanks for your erudite suggestion that I fit in the “Dims,” but as to what party I fit in, that is a decision I – and I alone – will make, should I decide that ANY party ever deserves a look.

    As for religion, I do not interfere with anyone’s religious beliefs or try to impose mine. I expect the same; having lived several years close to both Thomas Jefferson and Jerry Falwell, I find Mr. Jefferson’s approach to religion far superior.

  • 95. PFesser  |  April 23, 2011 at 11:39 am

    El Tigre –

    “PF, wipe your feet on the mat before entering. You’ve been at Fat Grannies. Don’t you be tracking that dog shit through here.”

    Point well-taken.

    (wipe, wipe, wipe, wipe, wipe, wipe… damn. Need another mat.)

  • 96. Tex Taylor  |  April 23, 2011 at 2:41 pm

    I find Mr. Jefferson’s approach to religion far superior.

    Jefferson was a brilliant but incredibly flawed man. Me, I appreciate Jesus Christ’s approach to religion as far superior to Jefferson’s. So does Jefferson. :wink:

    My type is that which is interested in *what* is right, not *who*.

    Fools believe themselves capable of deciding what is right by their own standard – that is, unless you are of the belief all opinions are of equal value, and truth is what an individual determines it to be.

    Like I said. This isn’t Fat Grannies where the irreligious hatred and zealots of abortion are favored, or because of some nebulous education, you’re immediately deemed as smartest kid on the block.

  • 97. Tex Taylor  |  April 23, 2011 at 2:51 pm

    I do not interfere with anyone’s religious beliefs or try to impose mine.

    I disagree. Your imposition is the worst form of bigotry – the imposition and demand that one’s basic tenets and deepest held beliefs be pushed from the public square. Not going to happen, nor should it. It wasn’t at the formation of the country, and certainly will not be now to meet a very small but vocal minorities demands. Each session of Congress is still opened with a prayer.

    Jefferson himself approved the building for largest church at the time, the U.S. Capital building, for religion worship and even used funds to pay for the military band.

    I’m afraid if the real truth of Thomas Jefferson were know and not what the irreligious such as yourself would like us to believe, Jefferson would be you and the ACLU’s worst nightmare.

    Tell you this much Pfesser. If BlackisWhite returns to this board with any frequency, you’re going to get a lesson in American history. :smile: God Bless America.

  • 98. Tex Taylor  |  April 23, 2011 at 2:52 pm

    Oops. Minority’s demands.

  • 99. poolman  |  April 23, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    Famous last words…

    “I’m Pat Fucking Tillman!”

  • 100. Tex Taylor  |  April 23, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    Tillman had naively made contact with the CIA’s Noam Chomsky to discuss his plans to reveal what he knew about the lies of Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld in the War on Terror. He was apparently also angry about the US Army’s support of the Afghan opium trade, started up by the army after the Taliban had eradicated it one hundred percent during their four-year reign. The US Army authorized the Northern Alliance to resume poppy production, according to Fox News shortly after we invaded Afghanistan.

    The thing was, if you’ve forgotten, Pat Tillman had forsaken his multi-million dollar pro-football contract with the Arizona Cardinals to join his brother Kevin in the Army Rangers to hunt down the CIA’s Osama bin Laden directly after the attack on the World Trade Center in late 2001. Never mind that Osama had immediately denied any involvement in the massacre and had in addition pointed to the US government and the Mossad, the latter’s role now confirmed by the revelations of Dimitri Khalezov.

    Pat Tillman was probably the greatest recruiting asset that the Neo-Cons had, until they sent him and Kevin from Afghanistan to Iraq in ‘03. Tillman became quite bitter and outspoken about the invasion of Iraq, figuring Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11. So they were sent back to Afghanistan, where they discovered the opium trade being protected and supported by the US Army. Now, they’re both pretty upset. Pat Tillman went from the Neo-Con dream to nightmare and needed to be shut up before he could tell America about the lies of its leaders.

    Boy, this one covers all the bases. Noam Chomsky, poppy trade, “Neocons”, Bush/Cheney/Rumsfield murderers had Tillman killed, etc…. :lol:

    I love conspiracy theorists. I should hold them in contempt, but they’re so stupid and gullible, they provide much needed comic relief in a dreary world swirling the drain.

  • 101. El Tigre  |  April 23, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    Amazing that the Poolman finds nothing in the birther debate.

  • 102. PFesser  |  April 23, 2011 at 8:21 pm

    ” I do not interfere with anyone’s religious beliefs or try to impose mine.

    I disagree. Your imposition is the worst form of bigotry – the imposition and demand that one’s basic tenets and deepest held beliefs be pushed from the public square. ”

    Show me where I said that. Of course you can’t because I said nothing of the sort. And don’t puss out and say, “That’s what you meant.” Transparent Straw Man argument. C’mon, man! You are better than that. Bust my chops for what I say, not what you think I believe. You could be wrong, you know…

    “Fools believe themselves capable of deciding what is right by their own standard”

    I know no other standard than that of a man’s conscience. Show me a better one.

    **********
    As for my boy Tom. I live not very far from the Great Man’s mountain and make a sabbatical there every year, so I have picked up a few things. Want to know what he thought of religion, and especially preachers?

    ‘Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. ‘

    ‘Priests…dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight and scowl on the fatal harbinger announcing the subversions of the duperies on which they live.’

    And of course my favorite: ‘Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between church and State.’

    As for myself, I believe as did Jefferson that it ‘does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ I couldn’t care less what you believe in. What I DO care about is that you not be able to use the force of the State – which is, itself, nothing but force – to try to make me believe as you do. The church should have the power to convince; the govt to coerce. These must never be mixed. We have seen it done time and time again. The most violent of course have been the Christians when they got the upper hand and mixed in State business. The last time that happened people got burned at the stake.

    Believe what you want; preach it to the world. But do NOT try to shove it down my throat by making its tenets into law. I don’t think that is unreasonable.

  • 103. Tex Taylor  |  April 23, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    Show me where I said that. Of course you can’t because I said nothing of the sort. And don’t puss out and say, “That’s what you meant.” Transparent Straw Man argument. C’mon, man! You are better than that. Bust my chops for what I say, not what you think I believe. You could be wrong, you know…

    An incorrect use of the liberal abuse of the overused and often misapplied logical fallacy ‘straw man’. zzzzzzzz. Psychobabble, first year philosophical slang from a quick read of Kant or thereabouts; generally used by the liberal persuasion in debate to indicate higher education.

    If I’m wrong in my assumption with your use of Jerry Falwell as bad example, then by all means explain your use of Jerry Falwell as example. Actually, I find it gutless on your behalf to mock the Christian faith, and that is what you are tacitly doing denial or not as I’ve read numerous times before now and at Fat Grannies, without first making the statement, “Jesus Christ was a lunatic or liar” as your first precept in statement of fact. After all, it is His message Pfesser that I base my objection to many your posts, including that last beauty.

    ———–

    I don’t dispute that after Jefferson’s wife died, he turned universalist – his loss as he descended into his own personal hell. In your great admiration of Jefferson, you would be wise to also remember that Jefferson was also incredibly flawed man and hypocrite of the first order. As reminder, Jefferson proposed multiple laws to overturn slavery, and even blamed Britain for the slave trade in his first draft of the Declaration of Independence. Yet Jefferson never freed his own slaves, even upon his death.

    I can see your admiration of double standard in application toward determination of good and evil. :twisted:

    Believe what you want; preach it to the world. But do NOT try to shove it down my throat by making its tenets into law. I don’t think that is unreasonable.

    And exactly what laws has Jerry Falwell shoved down your throat? How have you been persecuted by the Christian faith?

    Contrary to your hyperbole, I could make good argument that Christians are the most tolerant people on earth. For instance, we allow you to spew venom, burn a Bible if your wish, say the most egregious of things about our faith, lie, exaggerate, dramatize will twisting scripture, even verbally attack with insult its basic tenets, yet you still have your head while living in a predominately Christian country without threat to your well being.

    I highly doubt if the roles were reversed, men like you could say the same. After all Mao, Lenin, Stalin, and Pol Pot came to many of the same conclusions you have, as they also believed no other standard than that of a man’s conscience.

  • 104. PFesser  |  April 23, 2011 at 10:00 pm

    “An incorrect use of the liberal abuse of the overused and often misapplied logical fallacy ‘straw man’. zzzzzzzz. Psychobabble, first year philosophical slang from a quick read of Kant or thereabouts; generally used by the liberal persuasion in debate to indicate higher education.

    Uh, no. It is not slang. It is a well-established principle of argumentation and debate. “Straw man” – basically you accuse someone of saying something that is clearly nonsense (you erect a straw man) and then you point out that it is nonsense (you knock the straw man down).

    Except he never said that. It could be thought of as a type of intentional mischaracterization of someone – which is to say, telling a lie about him.

    Show me where it is incorrect. Of course you can’t do that either, because it IS correct use. Nice try. Actually no, it’s not a very good try.

    Try to clear up your thought processes and start again.

    “Actually, I find it gutless on your behalf to mock the Christian faith, and that is what you are tacitly doing denial or not as I’ve read numerous times before now and at Fat Grannies”

    We are not at Fat Grannies.

    “As reminder, Jefferson proposed multiple laws to overturn slavery, and even blamed Britain for the slave trade in his first draft of the Declaration of Independence. Yet Jefferson never freed his own slaves, even upon his death.”

    We are not talking about Jefferson’s slaves. We are talking about his take on religion. Come back to the topic, dude.

    “I could make good argument that Christians are the most tolerant people on earth.”

    I’d pay money to see THAT one!

    “For instance, we allow you to spew venom, burn a Bible if your wish, say the most egregious of things about our faith, lie, exaggerate, dramatize will twisting scripture, even verbally attack with insult its basic tenets, yet you still have your head while living in a predominately Christian country without threat to your well being.”

    All as it should be. (Actually, I don’t think I did that. More straw man?)

    “After all Mao, Lenin, Stalin, and Pol Pot came to many of the same conclusions you have, as they also believed no other standard than that of a man’s conscience.”

    Yep, that’s a clincher all right. Of course, they also all wore shirts and had two eyes; maybe that’s what made them bad guys.

    Perhaps another explanation is that one can always find something bad guys have in common with those with whom one disagrees if it helps one’s argument, while conveniently ignoring any contrary data.

    No, couldn’t be that…

  • 105. Tex Taylor  |  April 23, 2011 at 10:13 pm

    Here Pfesser, I also read you were a fan of abortion at Fat Grannies. Here’s your philosophy in action. :wink:

  • 106. PFesser  |  April 23, 2011 at 10:27 pm

    “Here Pfesser, I also read you were a fan of abortion at Fat Grannies. Here’s your philosophy in action.”

    We are not at Fat Grannies.

    So, do you think abortion can be boiled down to a simple black-and-white “you’re a fan/you’re not a fan” ??

    What is YOUR take on it? You a fan?

  • 107. Tex Taylor  |  April 23, 2011 at 10:34 pm

    Uh, no. It is not slang. It is a well-established principle of argumentation and debate.

    BRAVO! Your entire answer is gibberish. We are not debating what strawman means. We’re debating if you know how to use it properly.

    Poolman worthy. Yeller Dawg quality.

    I fully expected you to retort with another answer ad nauseam as in ad hominem, poisoning the well, slippery slope or a host of other common examples of academia liberals learned in their philosophy class. No red herring? That’s another favorite. You used Jerry Falwell as example – now explain why you felt the need to use Jerry Falwell.

    We are not at Fat Grannies.

    No, we are here. And you’re going to have to step it up. What passed at Fat Grannies as genius will generally pose as bullshit here. Divert, deflect or deny isn’t intellect and I guess it depends to you what the meaning of the word is, is?

    Yep, that’s a clincher all right. Of course, they also all wore shirts and had two eyes; maybe that’s what made them bad guys.

    They were also men guided by their own conscience – like you. Men who defined their own standards – like you. Men living by their own defined principles – like you. There’s a really bad record of men determining by their own standards what is right and what is not; what is good and what is evil; what is day and what is night. Like Thomas Jefferson.

    So I’m unimpressed with your genuflecting to Arch angel Jefferson as sterling example as you climb the mountain. I hope you took off your sandals.

    What was it you told me? You’ll have to do better than that?

  • 108. dead rabbit  |  April 23, 2011 at 10:41 pm

    I have to say, the Pope has inspired me this Easter. Its not just what he says, its how he says it. There is a humility with that guy that I believe is real.

  • 109. Tex Taylor  |  April 23, 2011 at 10:46 pm

    We are not at Fat Grannies.

    Correct. So am I to assume we will see the new and improved PFesser as he jumps to a new blog? Is this a case of multiple personality blog syndrome? Or does history count?

    Not to hassle you Pfesser

    But the irreligious nature and hints of militant atheism types are a pet peeve of mine, as well as several others here. And since you felt the need to interject a slap at Christianity from the start, albeit a rube like Falwell…well, let’s just say, I feel the need to take a slap at your application of double standard and woeful blindness as benefactor.

    You know Pfesser. Just kind of feeling each other out before we debate the politic of the day.

  • 110. Tex Taylor  |  April 23, 2011 at 10:49 pm

    Rabbit,

    I have to say I don’t know enough of Benedict to even cast a sound judgment.

    But I will say this. Though not Catholic, John Paul was an inspiration to me – so much so, his “Inspiration to Joy” sits on my coffee table in front of me as we speak. What an incredible man and an inspiration to everyone.

  • 111. Rutherford  |  April 23, 2011 at 11:51 pm

    From the little I know, I think John Paul II casts a very long shadow over Benedict.

  • 112. Rutherford  |  April 23, 2011 at 11:58 pm

    Well Pfesser, I guess the honeymoon is over …. it lasted much shorter than I expected but then you committed the cardinal sin of suggesting Christianity not entirely pure, AND restoring Thomas Jefferson to his rightful place in history.

    Tex told you earlier that BlackisWhiteImperialConsigliere (BiW as I call him) would set you straight on history. Don’t count on it. He is one of many revisionists nowadays that would have us believe we live in a Christian country with a Constitution straight out of scripture. It’s some scary sh*t.

    Finally, anyone who holds Jerry Falwell up to scrutiny is a friend of mine. If anyone defined the underbelly of evangelical Christianity it was Falwell. Truly a despicable man.

    With all due respect to YellowDog, Tex I think you have found a very capable interlocutor in Pfesser. I will greatly enjoy this exchange.

  • 113. Rutherford  |  April 24, 2011 at 12:06 am

    So, do you think abortion can be boiled down to a simple black-and-white “you’re a fan/you’re not a fan” ??

    Yes Pfesser, most of the folks on this board DO believe it is black and white and most oppose abortion except in the case of true risk of death to the mother. I’m not sure where they stand on rape and incest.

    As you probably know from our email exchanges and the assault I received at Fat Grannies, I am VERY conflicted on the subject of abortion.

    I do believe when the mother’s life is at risk, there is simply nothing to debate. From a purely logical point of view, I do NOT find rape and incest proper excuses for an abortion … the innocent life growing in the womb was not responsible for the rape or the incest.

    I also don’t like the notion of abortion as after-the-fact birth control and I am angered by women whose stance on abortion is based on “the right to have casual sex” and on man-hatred.

    But above all, I consider the woman sovereign over her own body and that the government should have NO role in determining the outcome of her pregnancy. This should be between her, her family, her doctor, and her clergy if she has any.

  • 114. PFesser  |  April 24, 2011 at 12:36 am

    Sir:

    Thanks for the encouragement. It’s a bit tough keeping Tex on topic; I have to confess I am having trouble dealing with his scattershot, stream-of-consciousness stuff. Had the same problem with Poolman at Fat Grannies’. The engineer in me doesn’t deal well with nonlinear thinkers.

    re: the Right Reverend Jerry Farwell. I can give you a capsule of my opinion best in a little story.

    My older brother and I have a very good relationship most of the time, but he is a little like Tex here: the world is black and white and he knows precisely which is which. I think the world of him, but occasionally he really crawls up my nose.

    About fifteen years ago he was waxing eloquent about how the “sexual revolution was a total flop” and that AIDS had put a stop to it, which led him to opine that he had listened to the RR Farwell and that he “made a lot of sense.”

    His wife was standing behind him. I could see her put her head into her hands, as if to say, god it’s on now…

    I took a little breath and thought about my response. Farwell had at that time recently concluded that AIDS was god’s way of spanking you for being queer. I considered that for about three seconds and told my brother, “Gene, if I had Hitler, Mussolini and Falwell all tied to chairs in the same room and I had only two bullets, I’d shoot Falwell twice.” Needless to say that ended the conversation about RR Farwell.

    As luck would have it, I happen to know the doctor who attended Farwell when he collapsed and died. He’s gay. And you thought god had no sense of humour.

    Re: my own position. I have some experience in biology, and have had a 5-hour embryology class in undergrad and a 4-hour class in grad school. I have assisted in abortions as well, and have dealt with girls in trouble and seen their desperation, so this is a subject I have thought about. (Interestingly, I helped arrange an abortion for K….., the daughter of my sanctimonious brother; he would stroke out the rest of his now stroke-demented brain if he ever knew.)

    Sometime I’ll go over to M&H and cut/paste my thoughts about abortion. Like yours, it is not black and white and I fear a little too “nuanced” for some of your customers, but it works very well for me. I’d like to see what the others have to say about it too. First.

  • 115. poolman  |  April 24, 2011 at 3:12 am

    Happy Easter all of you peeps! :cool:

  • 116. an800lbgorilla  |  April 24, 2011 at 8:07 am

    I do believe when the mother’s life is at risk, there is simply nothing to debate. From a purely logical point of view, I do NOT find rape and incest proper excuses for an abortion … the innocent life growing in the womb was not responsible for the rape or the incest.

    I also don’t like the notion of abortion as after-the-fact birth control and I am angered by women whose stance on abortion is based on “the right to have casual sex” and on man-hatred.” – R

    That’s pretty much what most of us believe.

    Here is where we differ: “But above all, I consider the woman sovereign over her own body and that the government should have NO role in determining the outcome of her pregnancy. This should be between her, her family, her doctor, and her clergy if she has any.” – R

    Abortion kills a human being. Period. Efforts to debate this are semantic justifications for homicide. Sometimes it is justifiable, most of the times, it is not. Abortions is a very serious matter, and should be treated as such. Except that the left does nothing of the kind. Feminist groups think women haven’t lived to their potential until they’ve had an abortion, and the left would like to make it easier for a teen to get an abortion-without parental consent- than get a Tylenol.

    So let’s cut the bull R. You and I both know that a very large portion of the right could agree to the procedure, provided they knew that the system was in place to ensure it was not abused. The left, on the other hand, will not agree to anything that slows the procedure down. Hell, the left is pushing for the morning after pill to be freely distributed. It will not surprise me to see cheap cologne and rubbers in the men room and tampons and the morning-after pill in the girls room. You can hug a liberal for that.

    Three margaritas and a murder, coming right up…

  • 117. dead rabbit  |  April 24, 2011 at 11:46 am

    “Interestingly, I helped arrange an abortion for K….., the daughter of my sanctimonious brother; he would stroke out the rest of his now stroke-demented brain if he ever knew”-Pfessor

    From strictly a cultural anthropological standpoint, I can’t express how many moons a part we are.

    I’ve never “assisted” in any abortions, but I do have 4 brothers. To defy your own brother’s core values behind his back in a way that involves his daughter makes you the fucking scum of all scums.

    You are a taboo in my circle. Some one would knock your jaw off, guaranteed.

    Wow. Shocking.

    I knew I shouldn’t have come here on Easter morning!

  • 118. dead rabbit  |  April 24, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    Damn. That bummed me out. Brother going behind brother’s back and then making little snarky quips about it, while I assume he is suffering from a stroke.

    Ill be thinking of that one all day.

    Some things go beyond politics.

    We’re not even on the same map when it comes to something as basic as your duties as a brother. No wonder common ground on anything else is so tough. You murdered your nephew or niece and brag about it behind his back on internet message boards!

    If you were any kind of man, you would have adopted the baby. That’s what my Grandpa did when his broke ass brother knocked up the neighborhood slut in ’43.

    Sorry dude. I calls um likes I sees um. You are scum.

  • 119. Tex Taylor  |  April 24, 2011 at 1:57 pm

    Rutherford, this is Easter – and you are man with no hope. And It is obvious. I offer you a path to restore your hope. I offer you a path to make your troubles irrelevant. Yet you never miss the opportunity to nullify. Why are you so hesitant to listen? Are you so blind to see your life slipping away?

    What hope and inspiration does a slave holder like Thomas Jefferson offer you Rutherford? He’s dead – he’s dust. Your history is as confused as your knowledge of religion, western culture and faith. With Jefferson, you would have been the house boy – or if healthy, carrying a 90lbs cotton sack That’s where you want to hang your hat? Someone that would treat you like chattel?

    That the man you profess and propose to restore to his rightful place?

    Why would you choose somebody so imperfect and flawed?

  • 120. PFesser  |  April 24, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    Sir:

    I ran over to Fat Grannies and picked up my post on abortion. Apologies – long.

    Firstly, I think it is a waste of time to debate when “life” begins, because the real issue is not whether something is alive – it is what sort of entity is entitled to protection under the law. This is a KEY point. Some say viruses are “alive;” certainly bacteria are alive, but neither has any rights. “Oh,” you may say – “what I mean is ‘human’ life.” To that I say, one’s fingers are alive – and human – but they are not entitled to legal protection. “Life” is not the point at all and struggling over its definition leads us astray IMHO.

    Here is what makes sense to me: Consider the process of building a house. You start out with a set of blueprints and over time you gradually add material; at the end you have a house, but at no time can you say that “This second it’s a house and one second ago it was not;” it is a many-month’s *process* – a continuum if you will.

    I view pregnancy the same. Egg and sperm are little more than DNA – a blueprint, if you will – each carrying half of the information. At fertilization, one second later you have a single cell with *all* the drawings to make a human being – but that’s all it is – a drawing. It will then take nine months of gradually adding material according to that blueprint and certainly the result will be a human, and entitled to protection under the law, but right after fertilization, is that a person? No. Is it entitled to protection under the law? I believe the answer is no, but at some point it *will* be.

    How do we decide when that point is? Here’s how: simply agree to a workable time frame, realizing from the very beginning that it is all arbitrary. Interestingly, we have already done that. It is a US Supreme Court decision, commonly referred to as Roe v. Wade.

    I originally thought Roe v. Wade was a big joke, but as the years have passed, I have changed my mind; I now believe it was a fine compromise. Oversimplifying: The first trimester you can abort for any reason. The second trimester, some reasons. The third trimester, almost no reason. Solomonic, really. The only problem is that it will not please the zealots who want all or none – usually none. They can’t deal with the idea of pregnancy as a continuum any more than they can deal with the idea of compromise, or allowing someone else to make his/her own decision, because in their rigid mindset everything is black or white.

    Brandeis said that sometimes it is more important that a matter be settled than that it be settled RIGHT. I thought about that a long time, and I think Roe v. Wade is the perfect example. The Right, having sold its soul to the Devil in order to get the votes of the RR, is now seeing that the Devil wants his due – control of the Republican party. And abortion is their watchword.

    I was a Republican for thirty years. When the exorcism is finished, call me.

  • 121. PFesser  |  April 24, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    “Abortion kills a human being. Period. Efforts to debate this are semantic justifications for homicide. ”

    And this type of mindset is exactly why we can’t sit and reason together and come up with a workable solution.

  • 122. Tex Taylor  |  April 24, 2011 at 7:59 pm

    Zealots – defined by PFesser as those who take the most pragmatic approach to abortion. So confused and so dark as to say that none can determine the beginnings of life for sure, then validate the wisdom of our courts doing it for us – as long as the court’s conclusions match his own. Something tells me our courts wouldn’t be so wise if they suddenly changed course and decided all life sacred from the minute of conception or uterine implantation.

    Gang, this is where a man guided by his own “conscience” and determining his own standards invariably leads – death; a cheapening of human life; deciding he has the wisdom of Solomon – though he mocks the God Solomon worshiped. Ironic hey that he would use such an example?

    Most proud to operate in the gray area of no absolutes – except religion; more specifically the Christian religion. And that positively, absolutely can not be tolerated. Faith must be suppressed, privatized, “exorcised”, and finally eliminated. Anything else is open to negotiation, and we all are own little god.

    ——–

    You’re analogy from blueprint to house is so asinine and simplistic PFesser, to almost deserve to be ignored. If you were talking about a puppy, most people would be aghast at the coldness of your description. As a whole, we are nothing but a billion years of evolution of biochemical and electrical impulses. Still, since that thinking is adverse to the innate, abortion has become a debate of personal “rights”, though I think it safe to say that the real victim has no rights or recourse when aborted. To overcome the coarseness of the mindset, semantics must change masked under “reproductive rights”, “family planning”, “planned parenthood”.

    But since you’re new here, I’ll throw a few stones. First, houses don’t have heartbeats at three weeks. Second, the house is ‘live in’ at 22 weeks, not nine months.

    You strike me as a ruthless and callous man PFesser – without remorse or feeling; completely unedifying. So far, I have found nothing likable or redeemable about you. I can see where your “conscience” has led you and it is ugly. You’re accessory to murder and so twisted, that you find that enlightened.

    Really sick…

  • 123. an800lbgorilla  |  April 25, 2011 at 6:14 am

    ““Abortion kills a human being. Period. Efforts to debate this are semantic justifications for homicide. ”

    And this type of mindset is exactly why we can’t sit and reason together and come up with a workable solution.” – Pfessor

    Bullshit.

    My immediate sentence following this said, “Sometimes it is justifiable, most of the times, it is not.” Don’t play out of context, partial quotes with this crowd, we’ve memories like elephants.

    What I said is 100% accurate. Both sentences. The number of abortions performed for life-style decisions far, far exceeds those done for medical reasons. To say otherwise is a bald face lie and you know it.

    More to the point, if you can’t acknowledge the simple fact that abortion results in the loss of human life, then your denial is without end. We can’t sit and reason with one another because you refuse to acknowledge what abortion is, and you simply reinforce what I said:

    You and I both know that a very large portion of the right could agree to the procedure, provided they knew that the system was in place to ensure it was not abused. The left, on the other hand, will not agree to anything that slows the procedure down.

  • 124. an800lbgorilla  |  April 25, 2011 at 6:18 am

    As WND has reported, besides Obama’s actual birth documentation, the president has refused to release his Punahou school records, Occidental College records, Columbia University records, Columbia thesis, Harvard Law School records, Harvard Law Review articles, scholarly articles from the University of Chicago, passport, medical records, files from his years as an Illinois state senator, Illinois State Bar Association records, baptism records and his adoption records.

    Read more: Hawaii senator questions Obama’s true birth father http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=291041#ixzz1KWqpyJhH

  • 125. Tex Taylor  |  April 25, 2011 at 8:08 am

    Don’t like higher gas prices? Obama’s suggestion is to get a new car! How is that for a solution gang? :lol: Get you a hybrid SUV if you have to have one – that will only set you back about $50K. I’d play this one over and over in the coming election year.

    This idiot doesn’t get one fact right in this spew. Not one. The Yahoo for President is clueless. Oil is not increasing because of demand Bo which is stagnant – it is increasing because oil is tied to the value of the dollar. And thanks to you and your financial geniuses, the value of the dollar is plunging – therefore oil moves inversely.

    And Bo is the one that decreased production of domestic oil. I give us 12 months before there is chaos in the streets and riots in the grocery stores.

  • 126. Tex Taylor  |  April 25, 2011 at 8:22 am

    Going hungry poor people? Tough shit. Get a better job! That’s the advice from the Left. Check out at 5:16.

    This guy thinks its a great idea that Big Macs are going up – you’ll eat less of them. That’s the solution!

    And the real kicker is the lying government doesn’t even use fuel and food in its inflationary calculations

  • 127. El Tigre  |  April 25, 2011 at 9:51 am

    Oh, I now see the wisdom in the ethanol subsidies. Like high gas prices, if we raise food costs too, people be slowly weened off the need for food and gas. Loose weight, more cash to give to the govt. Another win/win for this administration’s Trump-like virtually mistake-free record.

    Incidentally, I was told by a friend in big oil over the weekend that ethanol reduces mileage approximately 10-15%, the same percentage added to the mix. WTF?

  • 128. Rutherford  |  April 25, 2011 at 9:51 am

    Gorilla, I think Chuck over at Head Muscle has scooped WND. Obama is really …. a Japanese Woman!

  • 129. Rutherford  |  April 25, 2011 at 9:56 am

    For the record, I cannot imagine the circumstances under which I would facilitate ANY medical procedure for one of my sister’s children without consulting her first. In a real emergency, I’d call her as soon as I could after acting.

    That said, without having walked in Pfesser’s shoes, I can’t really jump down his throat. I would have to guess however, Pfesser, that your relationship with your brother has been somewhat dysfunctional.

  • 130. Rutherford  |  April 25, 2011 at 9:58 am

    Another win/win for this administration’s Trump-like virtually mistake-free record.

    Wow, a smack at Obama and Trump in the same sentence. Bravo Tigre, you’re starting the week on fire! :-)

  • 131. El Tigre  |  April 25, 2011 at 10:09 am

    If you’ll stay focused on Palin and Trump, I’ll meet you half way R. :lol:

    As for ethanol, it looks like my buddy’s comment about decreased mileage was right on.

    The Great Ethanol Debate:

    http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/news/ethanol/overview/index.htm

    http://www.ehow.com/facts_5882696_effect-ethanol-gas-mileage.html

  • 132. El Tigre  |  April 25, 2011 at 10:16 am

    Hey, imagine if we taxed the B-jesus out of eco-tourism. It would reduce the fuel consumption by decreasing travel to those exotic locations. Well, unless you’re a liberal celebrity with a couple of planes parked in your own back yard. I mean, we can’t tell them they aren’t allowed to travel, right R?

  • 133. Tex Taylor  |  April 25, 2011 at 11:11 am

    Incidentally, I was told by a friend in big oil over the weekend that ethanol reduces mileage approximately 10-15%, the same percentage added to the mix. WTF?

    I can personally vouch for that Tigre – and it is true that ethanol reduces mileage. There are two gas stations I fill up – generally a Quik Trip which is 10-15% ethanol and a Valero with no ethanol. Valero is 15-20 cents a gallon more expensive. I generally use it exclusively for my lawn mower, weedeater, leaf blower, etc…as I understand ethanol pretty rough on engine composites – especially two strokes.

    My wife lives exactly 497 miles from my driveway in Houston. When I drive my Acura TL to Houston using ethanol I get between 26-28mpg and that is consistent. When I use Valero’s fuel, I get 30-32mpg consistently. I’ve done this many times. Takes one tank of gas running on fumes to get there on ethanol. With no ethanol, I’ve made it with 3-4 gallons to spare.

    While its a push on money, you definitely use more fuel using ethanol. And this makes sense, because your thermodynamic qualities are reduced with biofuels. From Wiki, using 100% ethanol fuel decreases fuel-economy by 15-30% over using 100% gasoline; this can be avoided using certain modifications that would, however, render the engine inoperable on regular gasoline without the addition of an adjustable ECU.

    One of the biggest boondoggles ever foisted on the stupid American public. In theory, it is supposed to leave a cleaner environment. – bullshit, when you’re using more fuel.

    Quit eating, don’t heat or cool your house, don’t drive, get a better job. If you’re a rich progressive you can talk about doing all those things, but practice none of them. That’s the Lib mantra. :smile:

    And most of those rubes will be pushing the Obama button again – guaranteed.

  • 134. Rutherford  |  April 25, 2011 at 11:19 am

    Potentially dumb question: are current engines optimized for ethanol consumption? Can “hardware” improvements be made to better utilize ethanol? I’m just asking.

  • 135. El Tigre  |  April 25, 2011 at 11:27 am

    “When I drive my Acura TL to Houston using ethanol I get between 26-28mpg and that is consistent.”

    I drive a TL too and that’s my mileage for long trips (great minds). However, I have only encountered on one occasion a station that advertised pure gas versus ethanol blend. It was considerably more expensive and I didn’t know how it could be worth it the difference. Now I know.

    I also know that to produce the ethanol requires a tremendous consumption of other fuels/energy. I was horrified by the costs (and now obscene escalation in food costs) that were never considered in enacting the ethanol legislation (or at least downplayed). To learn that there’s no net gain in its use has me absolutely gobsmacked.

    What the fuck are we doing? Big hearts negates empty head I guess.

  • 136. El Tigre  |  April 25, 2011 at 11:32 am

    The other thing is the persistent belief from the eco-cult that carbon emission is synonymous with “pollution.” Simple minds.

  • 137. Rutherford  |  April 25, 2011 at 11:50 am

    Well, Tigre if excess carbon emissions contribute to the break down of the ozone layer, then calling it a pollutant would be accurate.

  • 138. El Tigre  |  April 25, 2011 at 12:49 pm

    Rutherford, my uninformed friend, you make the point. The largest emitter of carbon are the oceans (estimated 90-92 gigatons annually). Is that a pollutant?

    I wasn’t aware that carbon emissions result in the breakdown of the ozone layer. Did you get that from somewhere, or are you confusing it with hydrofluorocarbon? (perhaps you are right though).

    The statutory definition of “pollutant” under the Clean Air Act is (roughly) “any substance emitted into the air” including air itself. This is the endangerment and remediation findings delegated to the EPA (effectively unchecked legislatively or judicially of course) are a significant issue.

    Anyway, I could go on and on. But I would like to know what your definition of “pollutant” is. In the political and legal context it is an important definition — my point being that it is one which is recklessly cast about and leads to erroneous conclusions the uninitiated — like those that applauded ethanol legislation believing that its made their air purer.

  • 139. poolman  |  April 25, 2011 at 12:51 pm

    Ethanol is such a waste all around. Not only does its production and associated subsidies mess with food prices, but much of the rain forest in SA has been cut down to farm crops to produce ethanol. This has caused a greater ecological impact than any carbon emissions could.

    Henry Ford was instrumental in the use of ethanol for vehicles in the early 1900’s. He, along with J.P. Morgan, was also responsible for thwarting Tesla’s dream of free energy for everyone. This is one of the many documented indicators of the failure of capitalism to actually help mankind. The greed factor trumps charity again and again. Silly humans. It’s all going to burn, anyway. Put that in your eternal pipe and see what carbon emissions emerge…

  • 140. poolman  |  April 25, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    Speaking of pollution…

    Of course you could always believe Ann Coulter and Tex and think this stuff is good for you. :roll:

  • 141. El Tigre  |  April 25, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    “This is one of the many documented indicators of the failure of capitalism to actually help mankind.”

    Says the guy that builds swimming pools. :roll: Puleeze. It’s your idols with the Nobel Peace Prizes that have advanced the use of ethanol.

  • 142. El Tigre  |  April 25, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    One might wonder, Poolman, why we are propping up the auto manufacturers that have failed to actually help mankind.

    That evil capitalism. :lol:

  • 143. El Tigre  |  April 25, 2011 at 1:06 pm

    And electricity is free? Who knew?

  • 144. El Tigre  |  April 25, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    Can “hardware” improvements better feed starving children?

    Personally, I think we should all subscribe to the Hollywood version of eco-friendly. You know, the ones that have to travel, like Owen Wilson who bought a Prius in every color when they were released. Thanks for your help Owen!

  • 145. Tex Taylor  |  April 25, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    It’s worse that that Tigre about Al-Poolman. Consider who the resident idiot’s apprentice uses to scold my take on nuclear energy. Never let a conspiracy nut pass The Wizard by.

    Expert Helen Caldicott: she can’t even get her information concerning American nuclear plants straight. So now I’m to believe millions died in Chernobyl? :wink: Next time you can’t charge your air conditioner with freon, remember this imbecile.

    Nuclear fuel cycle is low in emissions

    Helen Caldicott’s March 16 diatribe against the Nuclear Energy Institute was loaded with false claims about the nuclear fuel cycle. Her claim that uranium enrichment plants use electricity generated from “two coal plants” is untrue.

    There is only one enrichment plant in the United States – in Paducah, Ky. By contract, it obtains electricity from the Tennessee Valley Authority’s fleet of power plants, so about 40 percent of its electricity comes from non-emitting nuclear and hydroelectric power plants.

    Ms. Caldicott also mangles the truth with her claim of CFC gas
    emissions from the uranium enrichment process. The Paducah facility doesn’t produce CFC-114, more commonly known as “Freon.” It uses it as a coolant for safety purposes in its enrichment operations. There is some leakage into the environment, but this amount is well within Environmental Protection Agency guidelines. In addition, Freon is no
    longer manufactured in the U.S. The enrichment plant uses Freon recycled from cars and home air conditioning units.

    USEC, the company operating the Kentucky facility, has an active Freon leak-reduction program under way and has applied for a license from the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission to a build and operate a centrifuge enrichment plant that will not use any CFCs. Although all industrial and manufacturing activities have environmental impacts and produce waste byproducts, nuclear power has one of the smallest environmental impacts of any source of
    electricity and manufacturing processes.

    In fact, a study by the International Energy Agency in 2003 showed that the entire nuclear energy life cycle resulted in the second-lowest emissions of greenhouse gases next to wind, which is hardly a technology Americans can rely on today to provide the round-the-clock, bulk electricity supplies that nuclear power plants provide.

    Scott Peterson

    Vice President
    Nuclear Energy Institute
    Washington, D.C.

    However, Progressive Radio Network loves her…. :smile: She’s Al Gore in a dress. No wonder Wizard has fallen in love with her. She’s also a global warming nut. Get out the plate of fruits, nuts, and granola flakes.

    http://www.progressiveradionetwork.com/dr-helen-caldicott/

  • 146. PFesser  |  April 25, 2011 at 1:32 pm

    “Most proud to operate in the gray area of no absolutes – except religion; more specifically the Christian religion. And that positively, absolutely can not be tolerated. Faith must be suppressed, privatized, “exorcised”, and finally eliminated. Anything else is open to negotiation, and we all are own little god.”

    I didn’t say that – (well, maybe the exorcism part) – you said that. I said I don’t care what anyone believes, remember?

    You really should read about the “straw man” and learn what it means – otherwise I am going to have to call you on it nearly every post, and frankly I want to get on to some serious debate about real topics, rather than keep wasting time trying to get you back on track.

    And the uncomfortable fact is, the world really IS gray. The absolutist position is very comfortable, but as you drill down below the surface of the platitudes, nothing is as simple as it seems. Nothing. (Don’t get me started about Heisenberg…)

    I believe that people have to make decisions in good faith, based on their judgment, experience and conscience, realizing that sometimes they may be wrong. That is a good thing; it keeps you from being intellectually lazy and saying, “I do it because I believe!” You have to use your head for something besides a hatrack or there is no purpose in being alive, IMHO.

  • 147. El Tigre  |  April 25, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    R, were you posting back when Rathergate was going down? If so, what was your take then on the Killian memos?

    (as you can probably guess, I was thinking about your standards of proof when it comes to the “birthers” versus your own).

  • 148. El Tigre  |  April 25, 2011 at 1:39 pm

    “I believe that people have to make decisions in good faith, based on their judgment, experience and conscience, realizing that sometimes they may be wrong. That is a good thing; it keeps you from being intellectually lazy and saying, “I do it because I believe!”

    PF, this had me scratching my head. Can state it differently? What you’ve said it is meaningless. How are one’s belief systems different from their “judgment, experience and conscience” (unless your belief systems are different from theirs)?

  • 149. poolman  |  April 25, 2011 at 2:13 pm

    PFesser, “straw man” is Tex’s foremost form of debate, second only to the “ad hominem” approach. I invite you to scroll back over the countless examples exhibited in these threads. Rarely does he address the actual issues raised.

    Tigre, I realize you are younger than I am and maybe your school books were purged of facts regarding Tesla’s contributions to the energy community. Yes, free electricity. Goes against the capitalist mindset, uh-huh. Why else do you think it was suppressed?

    Oh, and swimming pools are not just a product of capitalism. They have been built throughout history in all forms of societies. Construction is not a purely capitalist venture, either. Admittedly, the finance community made swimming pools a “household” commodity in America over the past 30 years, but much like the auto industry, they control the success of each by providing or not providing loans. Marketing has also created the “need” for these products. If people actually paid cash for these things, there would be much less of them.

    As far as propping up the auto industry, well we are afraid of job loss. We do almost anything to avoid that sacred cow. Nevermind that we should have invested more in rail and mass transit when the opportunity presented itself. We like our independence and personal gratification more than we care about the future of others on this planet. It’s the “got mine” attitude.

  • 150. Tex Taylor  |  April 25, 2011 at 2:34 pm

    I didn’t say that – (well, maybe the exorcism part) – you said that. I said I don’t care what anyone believes, remember?

    Oh baloney. If you don’t care what anyone believes and didn’t wish to be offensive, you wouldn’t even make mention at the tacit hints of your hostility toward religion. Every post after your first few attempts at pretentious ingratiation, nauseating and unnecessary, has had some shot at the Republican party dripping with progressive criticism, and/or your obvious hatred of the Christian faith as example Jerry Falwell (which demonstrates you’re a clueless media parrot – Jerry Falwell was a bit player and self-promoting fixture who hardly made mention amongst Evangelicals well alive – more often than not, an embarrassment).

    Why don’t you can the mealy-mouth routine and speak your piece plainly Professor? Quit with the incessant hand-wringing routine and make your point.

    You really should read about the “straw man” and learn what it means – otherwise I am going to have to call you on it nearly every post,

    Chuckle. Then I will continue to put you and treat you on par with the other masses of dumbasses at Fat Grannies who can’t defend their arguments. And as last gasp invoke the ‘logical fallacy argument’ ad nauseam hoping to appear educated in the process. Straw man accusation is one step up from the defense of calling somebody racist or Nazi.

    And frankly I want to get on to some serious debate about real topics, rather than keep wasting time trying to get you back on track.

    Talk about something besides how you were a Republican (cough cough), how you proudly partake in abortions (yuck yuck), how you were chased off by faith from the Republican party (zzzzz – horseshit – manifest progressive)

    or

    Expect me to keep mocking your material straight from the Media Matters handbook of Useful Idiot.

  • 151. Tex Taylor  |  April 25, 2011 at 2:42 pm

    PFesser,

    PFesser, “straw man” is Tex’s foremost form of debate, second only to the “ad hominem” approach. I invite you to scroll back over the countless examples exhibited in these threads. Rarely does he address the actual issues raised.

    I rest my case about Fat Grannies material and the continued claim of logical fallacies. :lol: :lol: Right on cue Homer.

    But I do give Al-Poolman one thing PFesser. Poolman has got a thick hide.

    Poolman been humiliated, laughed at, become the resident butt of jokes, made mockery, demonstrated profound buffoonery, nominated court jester, proven time after time wrong, and like metastasized cancer, he’s still roaming the R.L. body.

    I don’t know whether that is abject stupidity (well, yeah I do :smile: ), or just in dire need of attention.

  • 152. Tex Taylor  |  April 25, 2011 at 2:47 pm

    Nevermind that we should have invested more in rail and mass transit when the opportunity presented itself.

    Like subsidized AmTrak? Now there’s a winner of idea.

    I think Amtrak supporters graduated from Fat Grannies School of Economics too. :twisted:

  • 153. Hucking Fypocrites  |  April 25, 2011 at 2:51 pm

    Home, sweet home.

    I am feeling a bit lost in the conversation now, so I will jump into the next one.

    So get to writing, Rutherford! ;)

  • 154. El Tigre  |  April 25, 2011 at 3:13 pm

    “Tigre, I realize you are younger than I am and maybe your school books were purged of facts regarding Tesla’s contributions to the energy community. Yes, free electricity. Goes against the capitalist mindset, uh-huh. Why else do you think it was suppressed?”

    Oh, please. Spare me the condescending b.s. Tell me about the free electricity and why doesn’t exist now because of Ford and J.P. Morgan. My home doesn’t run on gas.

    And save the false sanctimony about your wonderful contribution to humanity and the ecosystem through the construction of pump driven, chemical filled pools. What a crock.

  • 155. El Tigre  |  April 25, 2011 at 3:14 pm

    “I think Amtrak supporters graduated from Fat Grannies School of Economics too.” :lol:

  • 156. El Tigre  |  April 25, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    “Oh, and swimming pools are not just a product of capitalism. They have been built throughout history in all forms of societies.”

    Like communist (and socialist) countries don’t build gas powered cars.

    Again, thanks for all of your selfless contributions to humanity.

  • 157. Tex Taylor  |  April 25, 2011 at 3:22 pm

    Well Rutherford,

    You and I became brothers once again today. It came down to a simple choice: (1) Do I lose my money to inflation; (2) Do I lose my money to another precipitous drop in the DOW/NASDAQ?

    Figured there was less risk and less loss in Door #1.

    Since I had been riding the S&P down a lot, then lesser back up for some eleven years, I figured I had minimized my losses best I could. I have this impending feeling of stock market doom once again.

    I moved 62% of our stock and equity accounts to fixed income. No guarantees, of course, but I will feel a little bit safer after 3:00PM this afternoon.

    Of course, if my previous record is any indicator, starting sometime this week, we should have an incredible bull market like we’ve never seen. :smile: This may be the time you want to invest in the high Beta! :wink:

  • 158. Tex Taylor  |  April 25, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    Huck,

    Did you shape those 21 young buffed dudes and dudettes into ship shape? :smile:

    You know, you might disagree, but I always found NYC wouldn’t be the easiest town to shelve temptation – and certainly not college age.

  • 159. Tex Taylor  |  April 25, 2011 at 3:51 pm

    And save the false sanctimony about your wonderful contribution to humanity and the ecosystem through the construction of pump driven, chemical filled pools. What a crock.

    Classic! :lol: Back at you. Rabbit response worthy.

  • 160. El Tigre  |  April 25, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    Thanks, but I ain’t got shit on Rabbitt when he’s unhinged.

  • 161. Rutherford  |  April 25, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    Ahhh Tex, playing it safe financially the Lawson way. One thing’s for sure. We’ll never get rich but maybe we can avoid living out of a shopping cart. :neutral:

  • 162. Rutherford  |  April 25, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    Tigre, I’d have to Google “rathergate” to get any idea what you’re talking about … is it the scandal that proved the end of Dan Rather’s career at CBS? If so, way before my blogging days.

  • 163. Hucking Fypocrites  |  April 25, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    It was challenging, Tex.

    Keeping kids in line is a lot easier when I can smack the attitude out of them.

    Rutherford, Rathergate is the incident where Dan Rather and CBS News helped propagate lies about Bush’s military service in order to try and keep him from being re-elected.

  • 164. PFesser  |  April 25, 2011 at 5:03 pm

    “I rest my case about Fat Grannies material and the continued claim of logical fallacies. :lol: :lol: Right on cue Homer”

    We’re not at Fat Grannies.

    “But I do give Al-Poolman one thing PFesser. Poolman has got a thick hide.”

    Actually, I kind of like Poolman. He is a devout believer but doesn’t think one side or god has all the answers. I don’t agree with his physics sometimes, but he has at least thought about things a little bit.

    As for religion: religion is not for me and it is as perfectly appropriate for me to say so, and why – including poking fun at the RR Jerry Farwell – as it is for you to take the opposing view and state YOUR case. Where I believe we differ is that I have absolutely no interest in forcing others to conform to my vision and I believe you do. If I have mischaracterized your position, by all means correct me.

    Poolman – I think Tesla’s greatest contribution to EE was his invention of three-phase power. In my EE classes 3-phase calculations drove me mad, but in the end I saw its elegant beauty. I think he just didn’t realize that wireless transmission of power wasn’t possible – at least not with the physics we know now.

    We sort of fell out of touch at M&H. Interested in starting over?

  • 165. El Tigre  |  April 25, 2011 at 5:14 pm

    R, yes. The Killian memos were forged documents intended to smear Bush concerning his service in Air National Guard in the early 70s. After it became apparent that the Killian memos were fabricated, Rather (along with his followers from the left) attempted to defend their actions by claiming the memos were “false but accurate.” Got that? False but accurate as the applicable standard when it comes to trashing conservatives by the MSM.

    Seeing how you dealt with the evidence surrounding the Giffords shooting, then the Obama birther debate (“case fucking closed”) I wondered about your standards of proof when it came to Bush and MSNBC’s defense of Rather even after the Killian memos were proved forgeries.

  • 166. Tex Taylor  |  April 25, 2011 at 5:40 pm

    Huck,

    kids in line is a lot easier when I can smack the attitude out of them.

    :lol: Well old friend, consider it a learning experience in patience. Because I predict with great certainty if my medical school experience was any indicator, there will be days it will be all you can do to keep from bringing plastic explosives to the teaching classroom.

    There’s a new attitude in town with the 20s generation. I know – I’ve got two KIA’s (that’s know-it-all in mom speak) that still visit on occasion.

    I must have been corrected about 20 times this holiday weekend…grrrrrr. Probably payback for my hateful attitude on the R.L. blog. :smile:

  • 167. Tex Taylor  |  April 25, 2011 at 5:46 pm

    Here Rutherford, here’s the example and the reason Dan Rather was finally put to pasture – about 40 years too late. Background contained in link.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Killian_memos_MSWord_animated.gif

  • 168. Tex Taylor  |  April 25, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    Maybe this is a better one. It’s the one I was aware of at the time “R”.

    http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=12551_One_More_CBS_Document_Example

  • 169. Hucking Fypocrites  |  April 25, 2011 at 6:08 pm

    Just a reminder….

    After 2.5 years and billions of dollars spent….

    WHERE’S THE JOBS?

    That is all…..

  • 170. El Tigre  |  April 25, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    Where are the anti war protesters?

  • 171. Hucking Fypocrites  |  April 25, 2011 at 6:23 pm

    No kidding.

    We’ll be bombing Syria pretty soon and the anti-war crowd is completely silent.

  • 172. Tex Taylor  |  April 25, 2011 at 6:34 pm

    If Media Benjamin, alien leader of Code Pink, is any indication:

    The anti-war crowd are much too busy producing rap videos to notice that we are (1) still in Iraq, (2) Escalated in Afghanistan when the Taliban aren’t escaping, (3) Have switched tactics from blame Bush to blame Blackwater – BO gets a pass.

    The anti-war crowd kind of remind me of NOW’s defense of women who aren’t abortion-on-demand screecheers, or engaged in adultery with fav lib men, who also relish in abortion (The Serial Rapist Slick Willy Clinton comes to Mind). Matter of fact, Hillary didn’t even get NOW’s support when she was called racist by BO. :wink:

  • 173. Tex Taylor  |  April 25, 2011 at 8:43 pm

    This administration can hide a lot of bad news in their numbers, but they can’t hide gas prices. ~ Rush Limbaugh
    :smile:

  • 174. poolman  |  April 25, 2011 at 8:48 pm

    And save the false sanctimony about your wonderful contribution to humanity and the ecosystem through the construction of pump driven, chemical filled pools. What a crock.

    That crock, with the right filtration and purification can beat the pants off of your Perrier, monsieur. You have no idea how amazing water is! It’s life. It’s resilient. It’s therapeutic. It’s the picture on every exotic resort’s ad. Water is the destination.

    True, all vessels aren’t well-built or maintained by their caretakers. That applies across the board. I’m sorry your pool experiences have been ordinary at best. Like cars, they can be poorly built and improperly maintained and more hassle than fun. The hydro-therapy industry does have some serious advocates, however. Most are associated with our beloved sports and medical fields.

    As far as Nikola Tesla’s inventions, they are easily available with a little googling. He was up against Edison, GE and Rockerfeller, in addition to Ford and J.P.Morgan. He proved most of his theories and he reshaped the electrical industry. His goal was to provide free energy to all of mankind. That was his greatest crime for which he was ostracized.

  • 175. Tex Taylor  |  April 25, 2011 at 9:01 pm

  • 176. dead rabbit  |  April 25, 2011 at 10:21 pm

    I have a feeling the real silver bubble is just now starting. Join the panic, boys….easy money. Ride the dumb money mobile and jump off at 100 mph in June, right before the fast approaching wall. Of course, you can say fuck it, and smash through. Obama’s destruction of the dollar will continue after a short intermission.

    This advice was given free of charge by Dead Rabbit Financial. All risk is taken on by the reader.

  • 177. Tex Taylor  |  April 25, 2011 at 11:06 pm

    Rabbit, my little silver investment. I think we are in to our fourth week. Like spinning the roulette wheel.

    AGQ PROSHARES TRUST II ULTRA SILVER 28 344.75 +3.79 +1.11%
    Current Value = 9,653.00
    Purchase Value = 6,823.48
    Short term gain = 2,829.52
    ROI = 41.4%
    :smile: I still haven’t sold. I think I’ll ride this ride train some more. Sooner or later, I run out of track.

  • 178. Rutherford  |  April 25, 2011 at 11:21 pm

    Tigre, I have no huge dog in the global warming environmental debate. I’m ultimately a selfish lazy bastard. I don’t have the time or energy to recycle. F*ck that.

    BUT, I am not ready to throw the global warming baby out with the bathwater. I find those who dismiss global warming on a par with those who dismiss evolution. Science suggests there is something there.

    As for the ozone layer … you’re probably right about the cloroflorocarbons or whatever they’re called. CO2 emissions might not relate to that. But to answer your generic question, I define a pollutant as any substance that makes our water less safe to drink, our food less safe to eat and our air less safe to breathe. Simple definition.

  • 179. dead rabbit  |  April 25, 2011 at 11:22 pm

    Don’t worry, President Disaster has released the DoJ dogs on gas prices. Father Failure is looking out for us. I can sleep sound.

    What a joke.

    Its the speculators fault?!!

    Nah, it wouldn’t be your bailed out banker buddies main lining financial speed balls compliment of the Fed.

    Even my corn flakes are expensive, assholes.

    Its also not because of your flaccid strategy against Libya where we purposely ensure not to be “too” successful. I wonder if they teach this strategy at the War College? Operation Kiss Your Sister.

    Or its not because of your awesome energy policy that shuns drilling for…..energy. (For shit’s sake just lie and announce we will already).

    But yeah. How dare those speculators bet that amateur hour will continue.

    The new angry Obama cracks me up. Come to find out his ass is tighter then size 36 Dockers on the Dead Rabbit.

    Obama acting tough makes me want to out alpha him by methodically taking his pack of Newport Lights and breaking them.

    I have a feeling 10 years from now we will still be hearing his excuses. His face sunken in like Skeletor.

    At least he has his legacy. Closing down Git…I mean a health care system we can believe in.

  • 180. dead rabbit  |  April 25, 2011 at 11:25 pm

    Sheesh. Even the Dead Rabbit’s household recycles.

  • 181. Rutherford  |  April 25, 2011 at 11:27 pm

    WHERE’S THE JOBS?

    Good question for both parties. How’s this for my answer-du-jour:

    Government doesn’t create jobs (except public ones) and the private sector won’t do it because they’ve learned to get by with less and come away with a better bottom line without having to improve the top half of the ledger sheet.

  • 182. Rutherford  |  April 25, 2011 at 11:35 pm

    Tex, I went to LGF and watched that Rathergate memo flash between “versions” and my poor 49 year old eyes don’t see a difference between versions other than one being a bit blurry.

    What am I missing?

  • 183. Hucking Fypocrites  |  April 25, 2011 at 11:49 pm

    “Government doesn’t create jobs….”

    We spent a whole lot of money because people said otherwise. You supported their position.

    You voted for them.

    “What am I missing?”

    That there is no difference is the point. That font type was not created until the 70s and the memo is supposed to be from the 50s.

    If you wiki “Killian memos” you can get the basics.

  • 184. Rutherford  |  April 25, 2011 at 11:51 pm

    Huck and Tigre …. you want anti-war protesters? Re-instate the draft. Until then you will hear crickets.

    I don’t mean this to insult Gorilla but the truth is when we get right down to it 90% of Americans don’t give a flying f*ck about the troops. They pay it lip service but they really don’t care. If they did care, the pressure to get out Afghanistan would be so over-powering that Obama’s reelection would depend on it.

  • 185. Rutherford  |  April 25, 2011 at 11:59 pm

    That font type was not created until the 70s and the memo is supposed to be from the 50s.

    Ah thanks for the clarification. Well all I can say is fair is fair …. bogus crap about Bush’s military record is balanced out by the bogus swift boat BS that was committed against Kerry. And now the same assh*le (Corsi) has “documented” Obama’s lack of citizenship. I hope he’s at least donating all the proceeds of his book to charity. :-(

  • 186. Hucking Fypocrites  |  April 26, 2011 at 12:03 am

    “Huck and Tigre …. you want anti-war protesters? Re-instate the draft. Until then you will hear crickets.”

    I don’t recall there being a draft when Bush was president.

    “If they did care, the pressure to get out Afghanistan would be so over-powering that Obama’s reelection would depend on it.”

    Is it required for your vote?

  • 187. Tex Taylor  |  April 26, 2011 at 12:14 am

    There you go. One lie substituted for one fact progressive sthyle – except Swiftboat was more than proven to be true. Thank Gawd T. Boone had the funds to shoot holes in the MSM.

    Face it, Kerry was Gore, only richer and uglier – not fit to be dog catcher Rutherford. Bo isn’t even fit to be dog. :wink:

  • 188. an800lbgorilla  |  April 26, 2011 at 6:01 am

    I don’t mean this to insult Gorilla but the truth is when we get right down to it 90% of Americans don’t give a flying f*ck about the troops. They pay it lip service but they really don’t care. If they did care, the pressure to get out Afghanistan would be so over-powering that Obama’s reelection would depend on it.” – R

    Yes and no. I’ve been through airports commonly used by service members deploying overseas and have been greeted and well-wished by, literally, hundreds of folks. It is difficult to explain the pride and comfort that bears on one’s heart. This was in Texas as well as in Maine.

    I’ve also been sneered at and looked down on with contempt. This has only happened to me in San Francisco.

    I think the bulk of the U.S. population, about 80%, supports the military and does not judge the military soldier, sailor or marine (fuck the Air Force, bunch of pussies) the same as they judge U.S. foreign policy. There’s 20% who feel that spitting on an E-2 will somehow convey to senior DoD leadership their contempt. Of course, all it usually results in is some Hippie getting his ass wipped.

    I think, being on the Left, you’ve lost a bit of perspective, for it is the Left that constitutes the 20% (an ever shrinking number) and it has been the Left that has shown contempt. Conservatives and independents don’t despise the military- whether they served or not.

  • 189. an800lbgorilla  |  April 26, 2011 at 6:05 am

    Ahhhhh, the documents about Bush were fabricated in their entirety. The Swiftboat ads were not fabricated- they may be disputed, but they were not lies. Kerry lied about being in Cambodia, and was caught red-handed in that lie.

    The two are not the same.

    I’d like you to read Corsi’s book when it comes out, and I’d love your opinion of the book. Don’t buy it if you don’t have too, the library should have it. I’m willing to bet that you’ll be hard pressed to dispute what’s printed. You may deny it outright, but you won’t be able to categorically dispute it. Just a hunch…

  • 190. an800lbgorilla  |  April 26, 2011 at 6:17 am

  • 191. Felix J  |  April 26, 2011 at 6:53 am

    Donald Trump’s attempt to gain the support of Tea party constituents by the use of the “birther card”, has been successful, and placed him in the position of “hot deck,” over his G.O.P. political opponents, according to the latest polls.

    Trump’s “heat” on President Obama, to produce proof of citizenship, may have dealt him a “stiff hand” by the “dealer” and could result in a “bust” for the “high roller” in the latter stages of his Presidential campaign.

    Trump’s strategy is no stranger to politics, but a conventional, conservative, method, which has proven to be highly effective in producing a “black jack” for a number of Tea party candidates in the November election’s, as was in the case for Rep, Rand Paul of Kentucky, who favored amending the Civil Rights act,

    Wisconsin’s Rep.Ron Johnson, a fan of “The Bell Curve” a book, which argued that genetic differences exist between blacks, and whites. One of whom is superior to the other.

    Rep.Mike Lee of Utah, who was endorsed by Alipac, who inturn, urged Governor Brewer of Arizona, to take immigration bill S.B. 1070 all the way to the Supreme Court.

    A “hit” however, will be required by the financial giant , if he is ever to win over the “house.”

  • 192. an800lbgorilla  |  April 26, 2011 at 6:54 am

    While this pastor is a little less flamboyant than Jeremiah Wright in both tone and wardrobe, the evidence is in: Obama prefers and actively seeks out these churches, race is our President’s primary motivation on a variety of decisions, and the media will actively provide cover for minority racists as long as it fits their narrative.

    Read more: http://www.wrno.com/pages/Morning_Show.html?article=8479610#ixzz1KcqCDKtq

  • 193. PFesser  |  April 26, 2011 at 7:13 am

    800lbgorilla –

    I think the government learned its lesson well from the protests of the ’70s that forced us out of Vietnam. I was there, and the thing that fueled those protests was nothing other than the draft. Protestors are in almost every case in every country going to be young people; the parents may be abhorred by the loss of young life, but they don’t have the fire to protest unless things are very bad, so it’s up to the youth. Unfortunately, young people are for the most part oblivious to the larger world and if there isn’t a draft threatening them, they go back to sleep.

    How to implement the above insight? Simple: the govt just instituted the “volunteer” military.

    Of course, to adventure you need troops, but how do you get them? That problem is solved, too. Whether deliberately or by fortuitous accident, the govt has driven the American economy into the ground; high taxes, inflation and the reduction of financial assistance to colleges has pushed the price of a college education out of reach for many young men and women, so what do they do? They join the military. It’s really like getting people to play the lottery. They believe “it won’t happen to me” and they join for the prospect of money for college; for others, they can’t get a job anyway in this economy, so they join just to find employment. Now everything is in place: the military has a continuous supply of cannon-fodder and a free hand to go adventuring with their flesh.

    The economy is so bad for young people that the military can even pick and choose the very best. A friend’s son and his buddy didn’t do well in school and dropped out, so before they could get into the National Guard, they had to take classes to get their GEDs, and even then it was a near thing that they got in. When they found out they had been finally accepted, they were delighted. Reminds me of Tom Sawyer whitewashing the fence.

    I just talked to the second boy last week. These Guardsmen, just fresh out of basic training, are going to – you guessed it – Afghanistan. To show you young people’s mindset, he said, “Oh well, more money for college.”

    Right. Congrat-u-f**king-lations! I hope you get that money, son.

    Everybody “supports our troops;” to not do so would be, well, un-American. Unfortunately they don’t see that the military and the govt have conflated supporting the troops with “supporting the war,” which I believe almost nobody does now.

    Just my .05. I believe we are well and truly f**ked – the whole country – from top to bottom. god help us; we surely won’t help ourselves.

  • 194. PFesser  |  April 26, 2011 at 7:21 am

    Sir:

    re: ozone. I’m sure somebody has thought of this already, but if memory serves, the “holes” were discovered, not observed to develop. What says they weren’t there all the time, caused by some natural process?

    I do know that ozone is unstable and is created by solar radiation, which of course is less and less at higher latitudes, as the sun’s rays hit ever more obliquely – thus at lower intensity. Perhaps the ozone is naturally thin at the poles because of reduced radiation?

  • 195. El Tigre  |  April 26, 2011 at 7:37 am

    R said, “I define a pollutant as any substance that makes our water less safe to drink, our food less safe to eat and our air less safe to breathe. Simple definition.”

    Well, that ain’t the defintion supplied by the EPA and what you’re talking about is a different subject than global warming altogether. we’re talking about carbon emissions.

    You are as mistaken in your beliefs concerning the global warming science you presume is settled. However, I see you don’t give a shit. You prefer not to tax yourself too much to formulate a rational opinion — even if mistaken. Shame really. We’re talking about obliterating the domestic and global economy, spread misery, poverty and unemployment and cede any semblence of economic dominance — all without any critical or even meaningful examination. I hope you see you’ve made my point.

    Yes We Can!

  • 196. El Tigre  |  April 26, 2011 at 8:07 am

    “Tex, I went to LGF and watched that Rathergate memo flash between “versions” and my poor 49 year old eyes don’t see a difference between versions other than one being a bit blurry.

    What am I missing?”

    That the whole thing was motivated by race. :lol: How dare any question his service record to determine his fitness to serve. Case fucking closed!

  • 197. El Tigre  |  April 26, 2011 at 8:23 am

    PF, the science that supposedly proves anthropogenic climate change that Rutherford contends is settled enough to accept without question ain’t settled by a mile. In fact, the science is laugh out loud, first in its determination that we are in fact experiencing global warming, and second (and even more significantly that it is anthropogenic).

    The recent US Supreme Court case originating in Rutherford’s unthinking, blindly liberal home state of Connecticut is a study in the exposure of false scientific conclusions to pacify the uninformed GW cult. All at unbelievable economic risk. And guess what? Recycling and hairspray propellants (Rutherford lost a few decades in his analysis — maybe its red dye No. 2??) has nothing to do with it. Oh well, that’s how we wind up with liberals supporting ethanol legislation without concern for its validity or consequences.

    If you care, I’d be happy to share more. But I see Rutherford is dismissive of the topic — it doesn’t involve Palin or accusations of racism.

    Yes We Can!

  • 198. El Tigre  |  April 26, 2011 at 8:39 am

    Poolman, the reverence you display for water and swimming pools is profound. :roll: As you waxed eloquent about its connection to vitality and “life”, did you pause and question your stance on abortion — the termination of life itself?

    BTW, I assume you build pools for the needy without compensation so they too can experience its healing and therpuetic qualties . . . as a humanitarian gesture? Right?

  • 199. an800lbgorilla  |  April 26, 2011 at 9:02 am

    Still, in the USA TODAY poll, only 38% of Americans say Obama definitely was born in the USA, and 18% say he probably was. Fifteen percent say he probably was born in another country, and 9% say he definitely was born elsewhere.

  • 200. an800lbgorilla  |  April 26, 2011 at 9:03 am

    Let me know when its a good time to say I told you so…

    (Arabian Business) — A majority of Egyptians wants the country’s peace treaty with Israel to be annulled and says its laws should “strictly” follow the teachings of the Koran, a survey by Pew Research Center’s Global Attitudes Project found.

    Fifty-four percent of 1,000 Egyptians surveyed want the government to end the peace treaty with the Jewish state, Pew said in an emailed statement. About 60 percent of those surveyed said “laws should strictly follow the teachings” of Islam’s holy book.

  • 201. an800lbgorilla  |  April 26, 2011 at 9:25 am

    400 civilians killed in Syria revolt

    Now, I seem to remember someone saying something about Syria being special. Hmmm, that Syria didn’t require intervention because, well, Syria was different than Libya… Who could that have been…

    Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said the U.S. won’t enter into the internal conflict in Syria the way it has in Libya.
    “No,” Clinton said, when asked on the CBS “Face the Nation” program if the U.S. would intervene in Syria’s unrest. Syrian President Bashar Al-Assad’s security forces clashed with protesters in several cities yesterday after his promises of freedoms and pay increases failed to prevent dissent from spreading across the country.

    Clinton said the elements that led to intervention in Libya — international condemnation, an Arab League call for action, a United Nations Security Council resolution — are “not going to happen” with Syria, in part because members of the U.S. Congress from both parties say they believe Assad is “a reformer.”

    “What’s been happening there the last few weeks is deeply concerning, but there’s a difference between calling out aircraft and indiscriminately strafing and bombing your own cities,” Clinton said, referring to Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi’s attacks on the Libyan people, “than police actions which, frankly, have exceeded the use of force that any of us would want to see.”

  • 202. PFesser  |  April 26, 2011 at 9:36 am

    re: Syria and Libya

    Tell me first and foremost why any of that is any of our business. What if Chiner were mucking around in Canada’s business, sending troops over? Think the US would get it’s knickers in a twist?

    Know the last time Switzerland was involved in a foreign war? If memory serves, it was 1511. Know the surest way to destroy your country? Foreign adventuring – destroying the capital that goes into weapons of war and using those weapons to destroy other people’s work – not to mention their lives.

    Sometimes you have to fight. fine. Just make goddamned sure you have to.

    Grrr……

  • 203. El Tigre  |  April 26, 2011 at 9:54 am

    Still, in the USA TODAY poll, only 38% of Americans say Obama definitely was born in the USA, and 18% say he probably was. Fifteen percent say he probably was born in another country, and 9% say he definitely was born elsewhere.

    Well, under Rutherford’s rigorous standards of proof, that settles it. Obama is foreign born. Case fucking closed!

  • 204. El Tigre  |  April 26, 2011 at 9:58 am

    PF, yep, Obama’s incoherent approach to military intervention is a real problem, isn’t it?

    Release the protesters!!!

    (the crickets might signify something about the left’s convictions to someone objective)

  • 205. PFesser  |  April 26, 2011 at 10:20 am

    El Tigre –

    “PF, yep, Obama’s incoherent approach to military intervention is a real problem, isn’t it”

    Yes. Just yes. No equivocation, no hesitation, no nothing.

    Hell yes.

  • 206. PFesser  |  April 26, 2011 at 10:25 am

    And one more thing. When in hell do we set foreign policy, commit public resources and manpower based on avoiding criticism from the Arab League?

    What’s wrong with these people?

  • 207. El Tigre  |  April 26, 2011 at 10:49 am

    “And one more thing. When in hell do we set foreign policy, commit public resources and manpower based on avoiding criticism from the Arab League?”

    Amen!

  • 208. an800lbgorilla  |  April 26, 2011 at 11:08 am

  • 209. Rutherford  |  April 26, 2011 at 11:12 am

    Well, under Rutherford’s rigorous standards of proof, that settles it. Obama is foreign born. Case fucking closed!

    Tigre, when did I ever say polls were my standard of proof?

    Pfesser, I’m afraid has hit it on the head, Our country is royally f*cked and one of the main reasons is that the collective IQ of the nation is at about third grade level. The fact that only a minority of those polled could confidently state that Obama was born in America shows a pandemic of lunacy that should really trouble anyone who gives a damn.

    This reminds me of The Andromeda Strain. I’d sooner believe there is some alien virus infecting the brains of the masses before I’d believe Obama was born in Kenya.

    No, as I said before …. Obama is really a Japanese woman.

  • 210. Rutherford  |  April 26, 2011 at 11:15 am

    But then think about it, is it so unusual that the same country that questions its President’s citizenship also worships at the throne of Snooki?

  • 211. El Tigre  |  April 26, 2011 at 11:27 am

    You’re right. MSNBC is your standard of proof. Got it. So what do we do when the polls repeated on MSNBC confirm what you you’d like to believe? Oh yeah, “Case fucking closed.”

    Remind me again of the racist component of you argument that only emerged after he was elected. . .

    One might think I believe him to be foreign born and I don’t. Go figure. My racist ass still thinks there’s an unresolved issue here. Or am I lune or retarded?

    R, sometimes you are a study in cognitive dissonance. Well I guess we all are from time to time. But if there’s one thing I wish you would take to heart (as I have said countless times in the past) is to take the reckless charges or “racism” out into a field and bury them. They are immeasurably harmful. And it’s because I am NOT racist that I say that.

    Now, let’s talk about your misogyny when it comes to Palin. . .

  • 212. El Tigre  |  April 26, 2011 at 11:31 am

    Snooki ain’t hiding anything. Which is the opposite problem.

    And our country is royally fucked due to the abject failure of leadership and the populism you applauded when it came to Obama yet only now criticise. What are you going to do about it? Support Obama of course!

  • 213. PFesser  |  April 26, 2011 at 11:41 am

    R – you sly dog! I didn’t know you were a Snooki fan!

    My wife and I have been chuckling about Mr. Toad’s Wild Ride since Snooki tried to foist that one on the public.

    I don’t know what really happened, and don’t in one sense really care, but if she faked that pregnancy, which I believe she did, the MSM’s complete malfeasance and the GOP’s knowing complicity call the very system itself into question.

    …not to mention the close call we had with having someone who believes the world will end in her lifetime almost being one 72 year-old cancer survivor heartbeat away from getting the nuclear codes to make it happen. ~~~shudder~~~~

  • 214. El Tigre  |  April 26, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    PF what the hell are you talking about?

  • 215. an800lbgorilla  |  April 26, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    ?

  • 216. Tex Taylor  |  April 26, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    Oh super! We’ve inherited another Palin derangement syndrome carrier into our midst. :roll: I do hope it is not catching.

    One thing that separates the Palin bashers from the Bo bashers PFesser. With the former, they assume she would have been an abject failure. With the latter, we already know for fact he is an abject disaster. But I’m glad you have great confidence in Jolting Joe Biden. :neutral:

    Now, what is it that separates you PFesser from the typical rube at Fat Grannies? I’m having a difficult time discerning what exactly makes you superior to your pals like Al-Poolman.

    So far, you’ve been a garden variety lemming of the Margaret & Helen progressive school of thought.

    Have I missed something?

  • 217. an800lbgorilla  |  April 26, 2011 at 12:08 pm

  • 218. Tex Taylor  |  April 26, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    Anybody else noticed Rutherford’s M.O. lately? He’s gone from trying to defend Bohunk Bo’s record, to pointing to other bad behavior or idiocy to defend Bo.

    We’ve sunk to Bo is a tad better than Snooki, once again qualifying him as free world leader. :lol:

    Even Rutherford can’t defend the Bo record with a straight face. It must suck to be an 2008 Obama voter right now. You’ve got to live a lie 24 hours a day, when it would be so much easier to say, “Man, was I wrong!!!!”

  • 219. Tex Taylor  |  April 26, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    Once again, it is time to review the Rutherford accuracy of forecast:

    How do we count the ways this current administration has failed? Jimmy Carter was the best case scenario – all we lack now is gas rationing, as one day we will awake to 16% prime.

    How well has Bo’s “dialogue” with rogue nations worked? Is our relationship with Iran and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad any stronger than two years ago? Is Iran now any less a threat to the world by the power of Obama’s persuasion and personality? Pffftt. That is what Bo and his lackeys promised us 30 months ago.

    Remember Obama voters?

    How accurate was Hillary Rotten Clinton’s claim a month ago that Syrian President Bashar al-Assad was a “reformer” now that he has killed hundreds of protesters, including children attending funerals of their dead loved ones? Frankly I’m shocked the Jooo hating Poolman hasn’t accused Israel of carrying out the bloodshed.

    How’s gas prices Lefties? Is Bo tied at the hip to big oil like Bush was, or so we were told? I hear deafening silence from you guys and the media. Where’s your criticism Rutherford of our energy policy? Boy, you were vocal in 2008 about our economic and energy failures. You personally any better off now that the Chicago messiah has had his abysmal run at leadership?

    Is our health care any cheaper now? How about the state of race relations? How’s our post racial President performed as healer? We are the ones, remember? Ummm…

    —————

    The only remaining question is why do we lend any credence to these Obama voters now? They are epic failures by every measure. They’ve accomplished nothing of substance and left a trail of destruction. They’ve been proven wrong about anything and everything meaningful – from foreign policy and war, to energy, to jobs, to “investment”, to GITMO, to the economy, to fiscal policy…blah blah blah.

    Any of you Bo voters feel the economy is any stronger now than 2008 after an additional $5trillion dollars of accumulate debt, including an $862 billion intended specifically to create jobs? How’s our national credit rating now that Bo has had his shot? :smile:

    No, I didn’t think so. So let’s talk about the maturity of believing it profound to think Obama will calm the seas and heal our land. We are the ones we’ve been waiting for… Waiting for what? Collapse? How about the maturity of cheering at the new Caesar as he stands in front of Styrofoam columns preaching platitudes? Or the profundity of “Yes We Can!”

    Hope? Change? Misery Index?

  • 220. PFesser  |  April 26, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    “So far, you’ve been a garden variety lemming of the Margaret & Helen progressive school of thought.

    Have I missed something?”

    Yes. We’re not at Margaret and Helen’s

  • 221. Tex Taylor  |  April 26, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    Obama is for the little guy (cough cough)

    If you got money and connections, you can be a black Communist Czar or racist Attorney General. :wink: But, if yo pooa, not so much.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2011-04-26-Obamas-broken-promise-to-help-blacks.htm?loc=interstitialskip

  • 222. Tex Taylor  |  April 26, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    No use of straw man or red herring? Gulp…

    Have I missed something?”

    Yes. We’re not at Margaret and Helen’s

    I know. That’s what makes the SDS admission so tragic. And I had great hope for you.

  • 223. Tex Taylor  |  April 26, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    I once again agree with Thomas Sowell

  • 224. PFesser  |  April 26, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    “And I had great hope for you.”

    I’m not interested in your approbation; I am interested in your ideas so I can compare them against my own and maybe learn something. But it’s hard to get you on topic; it’s always just this wild fist-swinging in all directions, with all the personal attacks, name calling, but very little substance (which, by the way I don’t mind. If you don’t have a thick skin you shouldn’t be here,)

    But I want to know what you THINK about things. And I am not going to let you off the hook; I want to know WHY, too.

    For the record: I consider the Obama presidency an unmitigated disaster. But many of the seeds were sown by GWB, in my opinion – the most significant of which were these wars. Part was sown by Clinton and the Congress of that time, especially the gutting of Glass-Steagall and the other regulations that were put in place after the Great Depression to stop the very abuses that put us where we are now.

    There is a really good interview with Elizabeth Warren where she talks about the history of boom/bust cycles on YouTube somewhere. It sounds boring, but it is fascinating, IMHO.

  • 225. an800lbgorilla  |  April 26, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    New post…

    http://an800lbgorilla.wordpress.com/

  • 226. Hucking Fypocrites  |  April 26, 2011 at 1:18 pm

    “I was there, and the thing that fueled those protests was nothing other than the draft.”

    Again…what fueled them during the Bush presidency?

    So far, the answer to that question seems to be the (R) that came after his name and absolutely nothing else.

    “When in hell do we set foreign policy, commit public resources and manpower based on avoiding criticism from the [hypocritical] Arab League [that is filled with countries that are doing the exact same thing Libya is doing]?”

  • 227. MuffyMcD  |  April 26, 2011 at 1:38 pm

    R, I agree with you and Pfesser (and others) that our nation is toast, but I disagree that the “low IQ” (perceived or actual) of the nation’s populace is one of the main reasons for that. Nor is racism (perceived or actual). This country has survived both and more, and instead of falling apart – we changed what needed to be changed and worked our way forward. We weren’t through getting it right yet, but we were facing in the right direction.

    I really don’t know what direction we’re facing anymore, and I’m uneasy (resigned mostly) about the future of this great big beautiful country of ours. I’m not sure precisely why I feel that way, but it isn’t because of the appalling dumbness or despicable racism of my countrymen. Or the sexism, xenophobia, Islamophobia, homophobia, etc. To my mind, none of that will be our undoing.

    I’ve been thinking lately that the reason we’re going to fall is that, sooner or later, every earthly nation will. Maybe we’re really looking at not escaping a fall (which we believed for a time that we would) moreso than falling.

    If I had to pick a word or a single concept that could prove to be our undoing, I guess it would be recklessness. People are not reckless with that which they love.

  • 228. El Tigre  |  April 26, 2011 at 1:43 pm

    “If I had to pick a word or a single concept that could prove to be our undoing, I guess it would be recklessness. People are not reckless with that which they love.”

    Fantastic comments MMD. Really well put.

  • 229. El Tigre  |  April 26, 2011 at 1:48 pm

    PF @213, seriously, what are you talking about? I get that you’re referring to Palin, and that it’s bait, but I still don’t know what you’re talking about and claim to believe. Please elaborate.

  • 230. PFesser  |  April 26, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    El Tigre –

    Re: Palin and what are you talking about?

    I’m at work right now, but when I get time I’ll elaborate. It may take some time.

    In the meantime: I tried to find the Elizabeth Warren interview on Glass-Steagall, but there were too many for me to go through them to find the right interview. Here is a pretty good article on it. Yes, I know Commondreams is a left-wing organization…

    http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/11/12-8

  • 231. PFesser  |  April 26, 2011 at 2:07 pm

    Tex –

    Re: Sowell. He’s my hero. My wife nearly shot me; when we were on a Caribbean cruise I spent nearly the whole time reading his economics text (800 pp?) on my Kindle. He also has a great book on the Intellegentsia in America I read last year. Great man; fantastic thinker.

  • 232. Hucking Fypocrites  |  April 26, 2011 at 2:24 pm

    Why does the “where are the anti-war protesters?” discussion come to an abrupt halt any time I point out that the claim it is all about the draft is a bunch of BS?

  • 233. PFesser  |  April 26, 2011 at 2:28 pm

    OK – I’m confused. Why do YOU think there are no organized protests? If you think it’s because Obama is a Dem, then how does that work? I don’t remember any organized protests on the war during GWB’s tenure – maybe some little stuff, but certainly not like in VietNam era. I was THERE. It was a big deal.

    You may also remember that the greatest chaos by far was the 1968 DEMOCRATIC convention in Chicago, so I am puzzled as to how the link to being a Dem vs Republican works.

  • 234. El Tigre  |  April 26, 2011 at 2:28 pm

    I’m with you Huck. The increased frequency of “hit and hide” is getting very annoying. :roll:

  • 235. Tex Taylor  |  April 26, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    You have finally provided something of substance and not the typical inanity of 2008 Obama progressivism PFesser. Excellent. Amazing what 30 months of gross incompetence can do to jog the senses.

    As a reminder, the current post pertains to one Donald Trump, which naturally leads to his slam of the insufferable Barack Obama’s gross incompetence as President, and his proffered U.S. citizenship “proof” of lack thereof. I have provided numerous comments, references and articles during this thread pertaining to both as example.

    As far as approbation, you could have fooled me with those dripping and sickly sweet first posts. :wink:

    ——

    So you want to know the why and not just the what? I don’t think we’ve had a boom bust cycle like this one personally PFesser. I’ve looked at previous bust cycles, have lived through a couple like ’81-82, and am not entirely sure this one isn’t unique.

    One thing I now know for sure is Keynesian economics didn’t work in 1935 and it is not working now. That implemented policy is the real unmitigated disaster. I think we now have enough history to term that economic policy busted. The wars are a part, but only a fractional part.

    My first solution would probably be just the opposite of what you might suggest.

    Just say when 45% of voting public pays no federal tax, that itself explains are large part of the problem. If elections are for sale, and they are, then it makes it virtually impossible to formulate a collective strategy. In conjunction, it is my opinion that the highest corporate taxes in the industrialized world are killing our competitiveness in a globalized world – hence, why I believe this recession is unique. The world grew up and we didn’t notice. The old rules don’t necessarily apply.

  • 236. Rutherford  |  April 26, 2011 at 2:38 pm

    I absolutely love Elizabeth Warren. For some reason Christina Romer makes me puke. Whenever I see her on TV I want to ask her WTF she’s smiling about.

  • 237. El Tigre  |  April 26, 2011 at 2:39 pm

    Okay. I am not making this up. Go ahead, click it. This is the EPA’s website. Go on. I dare you. Listen to the lyrics. Suffer the pain of the sound coming from your speakers. This is our government in action.

    http://www.epa.gov/climateforaction/learn/rap.htm

    This should run as the background track with Obama’s picture for all Republican ads.

  • 238. Tex Taylor  |  April 26, 2011 at 2:40 pm

    One question PFesser – like me, Thomas Sowell warned of Obama’s weaknesses well before Obama was elected. You seem intelligent enough to not be fooled or caught up in the hype.

    I understand your hesitancy of casting McCain as leader (nice personal story and not much else), but Sowell was very clear in his predictions of electing Obama and the impeding disaster he represented.

    And he was right.

  • 239. Rutherford  |  April 26, 2011 at 2:43 pm

    Huck what protests under Bush are you talking about? There were no anti-war protests under Bush that even approximated the intensity of the Vietnam era. I have no idea what you’re talking about.

    And while we’re on the topic … Gorilla mistook my comment for suggesting 90% of Americans have contempt for our soldiers. I was not saying that. I was not implying that the average soldier wouldn’t get a thumbs up at an airport. But what does that really amount to? Not a goddam thing. 90% of Americans have at best ennui regarding the wars.

    You want more proof …. how bout the government issue war bonds like in the old days to pay for the wars (since they’re NOT paid for) and see how many “patriots” show up to buy them. :-(

  • 240. Tex Taylor  |  April 26, 2011 at 2:47 pm

    Paul Krugman and the rest of those supposed Nobel Laureates should be forced to answer for this:

    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.566d80b1e85ec3f4dbdf9df60aec90c4.501&show_article=1

    You want to know why you are paying $4.00 a gallon for gas?

  • 241. El Tigre  |  April 26, 2011 at 2:48 pm

    The comparison is Bush era protests to Obama era protests.

  • 242. Hucking Fypocrites  |  April 26, 2011 at 2:49 pm

    “I don’t remember any organized protests on the war during GWB’s tenure – maybe some little stuff, but certainly not like in VietNam era.”

    So now we are qualifying what is and what isn’t an anti-war protest? We need to see 60s and 70s style outrage or it just doesn’t count? Please..,..

    Even if I give you that point, which I am not, you cannot deny that Bush did face some public outrage over the wars. All I am asking is where is it now? We have a new president that is ignoring the constitution when it comes to engaging foreign countries in conflict. We have a new president who is toting the neocon line that our “unique capabilities” must be used in “preemptive fashion” to spread “American values” throughout the world. We are attacking countries who pose us no direct threat. All the same stuff that Bush was called Hitler over.

    So where are the pictures with Obama wearing a Hitler mustache? Where are the cries of Obama being a “chicken hawk” that sends young men to war even though he never served, himself? Where are the congressmen who threatened to defund the wars? Where are the people camping out in front of the White House? Where is the community of Berkley, California?

    Do I want those things to happen?…no. I didn’t want them to happen while Bush was in office, either. But the hypocrisy is blinding. And until I see ANY kind of explanation that doesn’t flat out ignore recent history, I am left to assume that the big difference is nothing more than political affiliation.

    “You may also remember that the greatest chaos by far was the 1968 DEMOCRATIC convention in Chicago, so I am puzzled as to how the link to being a Dem vs Republican works.”

    The 60s are over. Welcome to the 21st century. Where ideologies and outrage is driven exclusively by the letters that follow people’s name. You can feel free to try and prove me wrong, but you’ll first have to drop this meme that there were no protests just because we never saw a resurgence of the hippie movement.

  • 243. Rutherford  |  April 26, 2011 at 2:51 pm

    The increased frequency of “hit and hide” is getting very annoying. :roll:

    ROTFL … every now and then I get a chuckle out of this.

    Comment 1 posted 10:00am — “Bla bla bla”
    Comment 2 posted 10:05am — “Why haven’t you answered? Got nuthin’ huh?”

    Every now and then there is an assumption that some of us (any of us) are hunched over the computer waiting to pounce on comments directed at us. Tigre surely it has occurred to you that perhaps “hit and hide” is more like “hit and get back to work” or “hit and go take a crap” or “hit and answer the ringing telephone”?
    :roll: Indeed!

  • 244. Rutherford  |  April 26, 2011 at 2:55 pm

    So where are the pictures with Obama wearing a Hitler mustache?

    OH NO YOU DIDN’T!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

    All those pictures were wasted over HCR at the Tea Party protests. Maybe they should’ve been saved up for a more appropriate time like Obama’s neocon fetish? :-D

  • 245. El Tigre  |  April 26, 2011 at 2:55 pm

    I’m talking about dissembling, misdirection and avoidance. Not delayed responses.

    Indeed! :roll:

  • 246. El Tigre  |  April 26, 2011 at 2:56 pm

    Like 244.

  • 247. Rutherford  |  April 26, 2011 at 3:00 pm

    “Dissembling, Misdirection and Avoidance” Good campaign slogan. Packs a much bigger punch than “yes we can”. ;-)

  • 248. Rutherford  |  April 26, 2011 at 3:02 pm

    No actually Tigre 244 was right on target. Obama leans a little left and gets a Hitler stache painted on him. Perhaps that might have been a bit more appropriate attack method now that he’s “spreading democracy” a la Bush?

  • 249. El Tigre  |  April 26, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    The subject was whate happened to the anti-war protesters. Not where are the anti-Obama protestors.

  • 250. Hucking Fypocrites  |  April 26, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    Where are all of these people?

    That’s not the 60s…

    Where are all of these people?

    That’s not the 60s….

    Where are all of these people?

    That’s not the 60s….

    Please tell me…where are they? Why are they now all silent?

  • 251. El Tigre  |  April 26, 2011 at 3:09 pm

    “Dissembling, Misdirection and Avoidance” sounds like our approach to the deficit.

  • 252. Tex Taylor  |  April 26, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    Tigre,

    I appreciate Rutherford letting us use his blog, he’s still my favorite lib in allowing us to speak our minds without threat, and he still provides even the occasional insightful thought.

    But Rutherford hasn’t been a serious debater since the Dims lost the super majority in the Senate. It’s been that long. And I suspect he’s well past the stage of denial, since even he can’t defend the record anymore. He switched long ago to a different form of justification in blame – racism being the first attempt.

    Remember, self-professed libs aren’t rational people and progressive thought is a well documented mental disease. Obama’s failing is most personal for the left-wing of the Dimocratic party, as they looked at him as their savior.

    It must be a bitter pill to swallow when you find out your hope and faith has failed you. And failed Bo has.

  • 253. PFesser  |  April 26, 2011 at 3:12 pm

    I was a college student during the Vietnam era, and I know whereof I speak when I say the draft drove the protests. Dr. Johnson’s comment about being hanged in a fortnight remarkably focusing one’s senses applied there for sure. That is all anyone talked about. Now that there is no draft, there hasn’t been a protest big enough to get ANYONE’s attention. Personally, I would like to see the draft instituted, along with a pay as you go war economy. This bullshit in the Middle East would last about as long as Pat stayed in the Army.

    We’ve had these interminable wars during a Republican presidency and a Democratic one, and we don’t see the protests. If you think the little popcorn farts during GWB’s tenure are a protest, I’d hate for you to have been on MY campus in 1971.

  • 254. El Tigre  |  April 26, 2011 at 3:14 pm

    “I appreciate Rutherford letting us use his blog, he’s still my favorite lib in allowing us to speak our minds without threat, and he still provides even the occasional insightful thought.”

    I do too. But damn it, sometimes it’s downright annoying!!

  • 255. Tex Taylor  |  April 26, 2011 at 3:16 pm

    Obama Rails Against Oil Subsidies, Gave ACORN $3 Billion in Stimulus</b

    At least $53 million in federal funds have gone to ACORN activists since 1994, and the controversial group could get up to $8.5 billion more tax dollars despite being under investigation for voter registration fraud in a dozen states.

    The economic stimulus bill enacted in February contains $3 billion that the non-profit activist group known more formally as the Association for Community Organizations for Reform Now could receive, and 2010 federal budget contains another $5.5 billion that could also find its way into the group’s coffers.

    An Examiner review of federal spending data found that ACORN has received at least $53 million in federal money since 1994.

    I think Obama has moved from the narcissistic stage into the “criminal” stage. :roll: I think the shine is officially off.

    http://jammiewearingfool.blogspot.com/2011/04/obama-rails-against-oil-subsidies-gave.html

  • 256. Hucking Fypocrites  |  April 26, 2011 at 3:17 pm

    “. If you think the little popcorn farts during GWB’s tenure are a protest, I’d hate for you to have been on MY campus in 1971.”

    Is there some point where you will even try and answer why we are no longer even seeing those popcorn farts that Bush saw?

  • 257. El Tigre  |  April 26, 2011 at 3:17 pm

    Where are the popcorn farts then?

  • 258. Hucking Fypocrites  |  April 26, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    This denial is absolutely laughable.

  • 259. El Tigre  |  April 26, 2011 at 3:20 pm

    Huck, you need to wait longer . . .

  • 260. Tex Taylor  |  April 26, 2011 at 3:23 pm

    Pfesser,

    Personally, I would like to see the draft instituted, along with a pay as you go war economy. This bullshit in the Middle East would last about as long as Pat stayed in the Army.

    Pay as you go maybe would be a worthy debate – in fact, a legitimate idea. But draft out of anything but absolute necessity? We’d be left with a military not nearly as capable for obvious reasons. It took us 20 years to restore the quality and capability of the world’s best military last time. :neutral:

  • 261. Hucking Fypocrites  |  April 26, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    “Perhaps that might have been a bit more appropriate attack method now that he’s “spreading democracy” a la Bush?”

    Allow me to repeat myself….

    “Do I want those things to happen?…no. I didn’t want them to happen while Bush was in office, either.”

  • 262. Tex Taylor  |  April 26, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    Oops….silver is off 9% today. Guess I ran out of track? :smile:

    Well, it was fun while it lasted.

  • 263. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  April 26, 2011 at 3:34 pm

    and he still provides even the occasional insightful thought.”

    Lately, you have to pick through a LOT of chaff to find that too rare kernal of wheat.

  • 264. Hucking Fypocrites  |  April 26, 2011 at 3:42 pm

    And here come the crickets…..

  • 265. PFesser  |  April 26, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    Agreed on the farts of GWB compared to dead air of Obama. No debate there.

    Of course, comparing a fart to dead air is meaningless when comparing a fart to a whirlwind. It’s like saying “See, two is bigger than zero!” – which is a meaningful comparison – until you compare both numbers to a hundred.

    And I doubt a hundred would begin to describe the unrest of the ‘sixties and ‘seventies.

  • 266. El Tigre  |  April 26, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    And the unrest of the sixties was nothing compared to the Civil War. . . H-ha!

    The point pertains regardless of what happened in the 60s.

  • 267. El Tigre  |  April 26, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    PF, are you, of all people, engaging in fallacious straw man logic?

  • 268. Tex Taylor  |  April 26, 2011 at 4:37 pm

    I’m just wondering when Rutherford will admit to Obama’s boneheaded decisions concerning the disastrous monetary policy as oil tied to the dollar, in conjunction with a constriction of domestic supply are killing us.

    That would be a start.

  • 269. Hucking Fypocrites  |  April 26, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    “Of course, comparing a fart to dead air is meaningless when comparing a fart to a whirlwind.”

    You and Rutherford are the only ones attempting to make that comparison.

  • 270. PFesser  |  April 26, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    “And the unrest of the sixties was nothing compared to the Civil War. . . H-ha! ”

    Have you been reading Milne again?

    ‘ “Aha!” said Pooh, practising. “Aha! Aha!…Of course,” he went on, “we could say ‘Aha!’ even if we hadn’t stolen Baby Roo.”
    “Pooh,” said Rabbit kindly, “you haven’t any brain.”
    “I know,” said Pooh humbly.’

    Back on track…sorry, got lost there for a minute…We are not comparing the GWB protests to the War of Yankee Aggression. We are comparing it to Obama protests (which I conceded are near zero) and the protests of the ‘sixties and ‘seventies.

    ““Of course, comparing a fart to dead air is meaningless when comparing a fart to a whirlwind.”

    You and Rutherford are the only ones attempting to make that comparison.’

    That’s because we are old farts ourselves and feel a kinship to breaking wind.

  • 271. Hucking Fypocrites  |  April 26, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    OK, fair enough.

    But now let’s return to the ultimate point. You’ve conceded that Obama has not seen what Bush saw from the anti-war movement, no matter how small and insignificant you might feel that movement is/was.

    I’ve repeated my position as to why that is. Would you or Rutherford care to give us yours?

  • 272. poolman  |  April 26, 2011 at 7:52 pm

    Google anti-war protests 2011, and you can see they are still going on. YouTube has it’s fair share of them. Ron Paul usually makes a showing. DC had one recently along with San Francisco and Seattle. Most were on 3/19/11. MSM didn’t cover them, so you are less likely to know about them. Ron Paul usually has a presenceThe biggest part of the anti-war movement today is madeup primarily by the “truth” movement. The media has been trying to avoid giving any airtime to them, so you will not likely see a lot of TV coverage. A lot of old timers along with plenty of newbies are constantly pushing the envelope. If they get too popular, then they are diffused in one of a variety of ways. Google any of the usual suspects to see their latest altercations with “the establishment.” Ray McGovern, Reagan’s main CIA man, would be a good start.

    It is all over the intertubes. Don’t expect MSM coverage. Much of the protesting has morphed into a marketing campaign. You wonder why they want a “kill switch” for the internet? Look no further…

  • 273. poolman  |  April 26, 2011 at 8:29 pm

    As you waxed eloquent about its connection to vitality and “life”, did you pause and question your stance on abortion — the termination of life itself?

    I am amazed how any topic of conversation with self-described “conservatives” always veers back to abortion. That exit ramp is always up ahead. :roll:

    Let me repeat once again. For all those with short or foggy memories… I hate abortion. I will never have an abortion. I will never counsel anyone into having an abortion. As a matter of fact, if I ever get asked for my opinion as to whether someone should get an abortion, I would say “have the baby.” Unless it will kill the mother, my advice is to nurture it to term and deliver it. Can we stay off that road for awhile?

    BTW, I assume you build pools for the needy without compensation so they too can experience its healing and therpuetic qualties . . . as a humanitarian gesture? Right?

    I have done some pro bono, but not much. A baptismal for a small church, a “Father” fountain for some nuns, some pool safety fence for a young family. Most other times it is just providing free advice or free labor, rather than including the materials. With pools, material cost is the biggest expense.

    For the past few years, the sale price barely covers the actual costs of construction. It almost feels like I operate a charity. I’m certain you have done plenty of pro bono, sometimes even by choice.

  • 274. PFesser  |  April 26, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    Thanks, Poolman –

    I may stand corrected…

    Now I am not sure which president had more protests, although if we assume it is GWB for the sake of argument, what immediately comes to mind is that this was when the wars were *begun* and new, and now we have become somewhat inured to them. I would also think that many folks figure Obama inherited this mess (he did) and are trying to give him time to sort it out. Just a conjecture. I for one would hate to have walked into office facing what he faced, especially with as little experience as he had under his belt. Not smart.

    Interesting to see Chris Christie’s response to the question of whether he should run for president. “I’m not ready.” Makes me think pretty damned highly of him, I have to tell you.

    Of course I believe the answer the Right is looking for is that GWB was a Republican and the Left has an irrational hatred of him. Given what I have seen since Obama was elected, I’m not at all sure who hates whom worse…

  • 275. El Tigre  |  April 26, 2011 at 9:03 pm

    “I’m certain you have done plenty of pro bono, sometimes even by choice.”

    Tons. Always by choice. Have yet to curse capitalism. Any idea why?

    As for abortion, you may peddle your wares at Fat Grannies. I am hardly consumed by the abortion debate. Frankly, much of the discussion here changed my opinions because of the absurdity of the arguments from the pro-abortionists.

    I still marvel at the “sovereignty of the woman” argument, one which can not for reasons that make no sense override the states interest in human life itself. No shit. While I respect him on many levels, listening to Rutherford try to defend his position has caused removed my ambivalence when it comes to abortion. Strangely, I think it has for him too at Fat Grannies where you pander to the sensibilities of men-hating scolds to feed your ego.

    You may very well be anti-abortion. Have you waxed so eloquent about the very life you recognize as precious like you’ve done with your livelihood, the swimming pool — the epitome of excess and waste? If so, show me. If not, I find your brand of hypocrisy loathesome.

  • 276. El Tigre  |  April 26, 2011 at 9:26 pm

    PF, are you saying the anti-war protestors are still there but not seen? Or are you just equivocating? There was a point to my (and Huck’s) original observation that you and Rutherford are studiously avoiding.

  • 277. El Tigre  |  April 26, 2011 at 9:29 pm

    “Given what I have seen since Obama was elected, I’m not at all sure who hates whom worse…”

    Have you looked at the words of the two men themselves? Who has directed more (public) vitriol towards the other?

  • 278. El Tigre  |  April 26, 2011 at 9:31 pm

    “one which can not for reasons that make sense”

  • 279. El Tigre  |  April 26, 2011 at 10:01 pm

    A panoply of liberal devices. Can you find them all?

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/04/26/tavis_smiley_2012_will_be_the_most_racist_election_ever.html

  • 280. Tex Taylor  |  April 26, 2011 at 10:06 pm

    Have you looked at the words of the two men themselves? Who has directed more (public) vitriol towards the other?

    An excellent question Tiger and one reason I loathe the Left – their double standards in judgment, the blatant and unfounded bias of their opinions, and their intellectual dishonesty. There are two Americas.

    Say what you will about George Bush, heaven or hell, but there is no doubt in my mind Bush is a patriot who loves America. I am equally sure Obama detests much of America and he does little to hide it.

  • 281. dead rabbit  |  April 26, 2011 at 10:19 pm

    I don’t make appearances on down silver days.

  • 282. Tex Taylor  |  April 26, 2011 at 10:45 pm

    D.R., :lol: Boy, did it drop today. I lost about a thousand. Easy come, easy go.

    The history of the legacy of Obama begins to become clearer. Pretty interesting stuff.

  • 283. Tex Taylor  |  April 26, 2011 at 10:54 pm

    Have I mentioned along with Obama’s dismal record making him potentially the worst American President in history, the lib arguments claiming Bush lied about Iraq are beginning to fall apart too with not so much as mention from the MSM?

    WikiLeaks: The Iraq-Al Qaeda Connection Confirmed, Again

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/wikileaks-iraq-al-qaeda-connection-confirmed-again_558271.html

  • 284. Rutherford  |  April 26, 2011 at 11:17 pm

    Okay. I am not making this up.

    Tigre … the EPA rap? Where do you find this stuff? Do you actively scour the net to find stuff to humiliate Dem’s? :-)

  • 285. Rutherford  |  April 26, 2011 at 11:30 pm

    I’m surprised that no one picked up on Poolman saying “I will never have an abortion”. No safer statement has ever been made on this board, unless I have misunderstood Poolman‘s gender all this time. :lol:

  • 286. Rutherford  |  April 26, 2011 at 11:38 pm

    On the day of Obama’s budget speech a couple of weeks ago, Joan Walsh of Salon.com posted a positive review and got completely skewered by liberal readers who accused her of having “battered wife syndrome” where you keep saying “he won’t hit me again, he’s changed now.” Maybe one of you guys posted it and I read it in one of these threads.

    Anyway, my point is that liberals have been bending over backwards to forgive Obama the several disappointments he has dealt us, lukewarm health care reform being one of them and our foreign policy being the other BIG disappointment. But some libs, like the ones in the comment thread on Salon.com are waking up and getting pissed off.

    As much as you boys hate Keith Olbermann, he delivered some scathing anti-Obama rants when Obama betrayed the left’s values.

    The anger is out there … just not enough to inspire a primary challenge.

  • 287. Tex Taylor  |  April 26, 2011 at 11:56 pm

    Obama anger? You mean with you guys who think Bo hasn’t turned far enough pinko for a greasy scumbag like Olbermann – the same bum who has become so completely irrelevant, he is down to reporting to Al Gore?

    Don’t your recognize Rutherford that Obama’s problem with the great majority of Americans is that Obama is left of Marx on many issues? If Obama loses in 2012, and he will if Republicans field any candidate of marginal worth, it will not be because Obama hasn’t turned far enough left – it will be because Obama never could turn right.

  • 288. Hucking Fypocrites  |  April 27, 2011 at 1:58 am

    I appreciate the efforts to respond. It’s further than some are willing to go….

  • 289. an800lbgorilla  |  April 27, 2011 at 6:17 am

    I’m surprised that no one picked up on Poolman saying…” – R

    I’m surprised anyone reads his comments at all…

  • 290. El Tigre  |  April 27, 2011 at 7:39 am

    “Tigre … the EPA rap? Where do you find this stuff? Do you actively scour the net to find stuff to humiliate Dem’s?”

    As I said in my prior thread, the EPA “rap” is my bag, man. I am involved in the legal attacks against the EPA designations and recent Supreme Court case. I have hundreds (perhpas thousands?) of attorney hours in the cases brought on behalf of the states and large, public interest foundations. So too with. . . surprise, surprise –some hig profile cases involving black civil rights figures. I’m in the bowels of the beast. And that’s why I hate your vociferous but naive and ill-informed accusations concerning either subject.

    (The racism charges make my blood boil not becuase tehir dead wrong in a very conspicuous way if you knew of my work, but because its so harmful to race relations — particularly coming from someone such as yourself, whom I suspect has experienced a level of privilege and racial indifference beyond that of damn near anyone on the street).

  • 291. PFesser  |  April 27, 2011 at 7:56 am

    El Tigre –

    EPA cases? Would it be out of line to ask you to elaborate about your background a little?

    Having said that – full disclosure – in a moment of anger I revealed far more about myself than I should have at Fat Grannies and it was used against me viciously, so if you are circumspect or say no, that is perfectly understandable.

  • 292. El Tigre  |  April 27, 2011 at 8:16 am

    PF, my anonymity is important on a blog visited by some I’ve seen here (not the regulars of course). Take no offense. There’s no way I could maintain it if told you my clients and specifics of the cases. When you’re a lawyer everything’s a matter of public record. In fact, most here might have read or seen pictures of me in the papers about 2-3 years ago in a very high profile case (unmemorable of with respect to me but not my clients of course). But not all things would make me easily identified. For example, BiW and I can kick legal concepts back and forth without knowing the particulars.

  • 293. PFesser  |  April 27, 2011 at 8:22 am

    El Tigre –

    Understood. I wasn’t asking for particulars of course.

    I am very interested in what I consider the tyranny of the EPA. The horror stories are legion.

    A friend of mine is a contractor and we were discussing why so many companies go overseas. His unhesitating response certainly struck a chord with me: “I can tell you exactly why companies are moving overseas. EPA regulations. Workplace regulations. Corporate tax structure.

    I just finished Boortz’ book on the FairTax and he hits the corporate tax structure extremely hard. He says there is absolutely nothing we can do to stop the exodus of corporations and jobs until we completely overhaul the tax structure and make this a business-friendly country.

    Thoughts?

  • 294. an800lbgorilla  |  April 27, 2011 at 8:22 am

    Are you in DC?

  • 295. El Tigre  |  April 27, 2011 at 8:23 am

    But this requires some explanation R:

    “@realdonaldtrump My Harvard College classmate went to school with Obama in Hawaii. You’re an ass Donald.”

    Since the fact that he “went” to school in HI is not the issue, do tell what you’re understanding is. . .

  • 296. El Tigre  |  April 27, 2011 at 8:32 am

    Not in DC, Gorilla. Atlanta.

    “EPA regulations. Workplace regulations. Corporate tax structure.” Yep. No doubt about it. Incredibly, R would deny it too.

    From a procedural standpoint alone, Obama’s use of the EPA to carry out a dangerous agenda in manner that is totally unchecked is appalling. Now getting into why its findings are wrong is a whole world unto itself — fostered of course by the apathy/disinterest in actually “getting it right” from the left. Look at Rutherford’s comments above.

  • 297. an800lbgorilla  |  April 27, 2011 at 8:42 am

    There are many here who don’t know a lot about finance. I encourage you to check this out and read, just read. Eye popping to say the least…

    http://mises.org/daily/5223/Charting-the-Course-to-7-Gas

  • 298. Tex Taylor  |  April 27, 2011 at 9:34 am

    He says there is absolutely nothing we can do to stop the exodus of corporations and jobs until we completely overhaul the tax structure and make this a business-friendly country.

    Thoughts?

    I think Boortz is exactly right PFesser, if I understand his viewpoint. I never read Neil’s books, but I’ve listened to him on the radio enough that I think I understand his position.

    If you’re looking for our own opinions, I’ve made mine here numerous times. Corporate rates have made much of America uncompetitive and that explains in large part why manufacturing has moved overseas. When Japan lowered its corporate rates recently, America became the new mantle holder as our corporate tax rates now the highest in the industrialized world, and almost twice as high as the average of 18.2%. Throw in matching FICA, the burgeoning costs of health care, and burden – it’s pretty easy to determine why executives are looking for shelters, loopholes, and other offsets. Shareholders demand a fair return and executives answer to shareholders.

    Liberals like Rutherford like to make claim that corporate tax rates are lower than they’ve been in quite sometime. Maybe, but America can no longer hold such competitive productivity advantage to be able to offset the tax burden.

    Just my opinion. But I’ll bet it is pretty close to Boortz.

  • 299. Tex Taylor  |  April 27, 2011 at 9:43 am

    Gorilla,

    It was exactly that information you provided that forced me the other day to leave the market for the most part – it was simply to preserve capital. I haven’t done that in my adult lifetime.

    Either way, I think I’m going to get burned – just less burned by inflation than another huge drop in the S&P. I may have been too early in the move, but because of 2000 and 2008, I no longer trust Wall Street (or the fickle panicked America public) and sadly have to say, I don’t even trust the information I receive anymore. I don’t know what to believe, but I do know printing money is not the solution.

    The little guy doesn’t have the clout they used to, and the market driven by money managers.

  • 300. Tex Taylor  |  April 27, 2011 at 9:47 am

    That video in provided in #282 is worth the watch if you’re interested in Obama’s family history. Twelve minutes that will provide an eye opener. Some of it known – some of it new.

  • 301. El Tigre  |  April 27, 2011 at 10:12 am

    Lookie, lookie. R, sorry you can;t savor the satisfaction of not disclosing:

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf

  • 302. El Tigre  |  April 27, 2011 at 10:25 am

    And Trump’s taking credit for the release. This is priceless beyond words. :lol:

  • 303. El Tigre  |  April 27, 2011 at 10:26 am

    PF, I’m still waiting for your explanation of the Palin smear. . .

  • 304. PFesser  |  April 27, 2011 at 10:27 am

    re: corp tax structure, et al. I neglected to mention that the topic came up with my friend based on Obama’s speech where the “rich” were going to have to pony up their “fair share” of taxes. His response was, “My little construction company is barely making it; I went from 24 employees down to 9 thanks to the guys up in Washington and their little recession. If they jack up this “rich guy’s” taxes any more, I am going to take a little vacation and there won’t be any of us working, including me, and they won’t get ANY taxes.”

    I did the same thing once before. When my taxes went up I quit work, went back to engineering school (my real love) and paid NO taxes for eight years.

    These bastards just don’t see that actions have consequences, and when you screw the people who are pulling the whole train, they may just shut off the engine and take a rest. Or, like Atlas, SHRUG.

  • 305. El Tigre  |  April 27, 2011 at 10:40 am

    PF, I’m facing that now with health care costs. I have specifically not hired due to the uncertainty of expenses that will be imposed through the enactment of Obama-care. The misplaced class warfare declared by this administration and its potential effects on my firm has also resulted in decisions to refrain from hiring. And Rutherford scoffs that these expenses make any difference because corporations can afford it. :roll:

  • 306. PFesser  |  April 27, 2011 at 10:41 am

    El Tigre –

    Let’s say, hypothetically of course, that I was able to obtain a copy of Frank Bailey’s manuscript. If you are not familiar, he was Palin’s chief of staff for nearly her entire run, and his manuscript of his experience was leaked illegally, so of course I don’t have it. But if I DID, I will tell you that it paints a very, very different picture of Snowdrift Snooki than is the Right’s darling story.

    I also have quite a bit of information about Mr. Toad’s Wild Ride, where she alleged to have delivered her 5th child many many hours after her water broke, with nobody having suspected that she was preggers and nobody on the two long plane rides back to Anchorage the wiser. Ever see a delivery? Ever see a lady in labor, leaking fluid and blood everywhere? I have, and the whole story is bogus. I don’t have the time to go into it here, and I really don’t know why she did what she did, but suffice it to say that the whole pregnancy was faked.

    I don’t want to get sensational and come across like a conspiracy theorist, so I won’t go into what I know and don’t know right here right now, but this has been a little interest of mine since Mr. Toad’s Wild ride. I am only going this far because you have asked me to; I hope I don’t regret it.

  • 307. El Tigre  |  April 27, 2011 at 10:54 am

    PF, I don’t give much of a shit about Palin. Frankly I wish she’d go away. So I had to Google Mr. Toad’s Wild Ride to get a handle on your reference to it. The “manuscript” doesn’t look like much of a secret. See http://www.palindeception.com/blog/2009/06/pulling-palin-my-response-to.html.

    So Palin would lie about giving birth to a retarded boy? That need splainin’ — even if only in round about terms. I mean, it’s the douchebag left that seems so focused on her — a VP candidate from 2008 — and as some kind response to criticism of Obama — a presidential candidate and now president for shit’s sake. Rutherford goes bananas and pretends his feminist sensibilities are under attack by her like his puddy hurts. It’s a sight to behold. Stay tuned it’ll emerge.

  • 308. Tex Taylor  |  April 27, 2011 at 11:08 am

    Whatever it is, Sarah Palin brings out the nuts. I think Rutherford masturbates daily to a picture of her, like a stalker. :smile:

    You kind of surprise me PFesser. You don’t come across as the typical loon, because you seem to have semblance of balance – at least with the portfolio and the business.

    I suspect SDS is a little bit of misogyny and some of it her professed faith, some of it that she poses a threat to the infanticide loving crowd, and most of it because the perpetrators are useful idiot, leftist loons – in your case PFesser’s, you don’t fit the general mold. You got the religious bigotry and the abortion cheering down, but you don’t fit the rest of the script best I can tell.

    One question for PFesser.

    Who do the imbeciles think bore Trig again? :twisted: These people are obviously far more fucked up in the head than any birthers; say on par with the troofers. So Sarah Palin faked her pregnancy? Faked her birth?

    So I had to go an look up the latest rumor. Here’s the latest “Theory.” According to these fertility ‘experts’, most 43-year-old women can’t get pregnant even with tens of thousands of dollars of fertility treatments.

    Do these morons even recognize what is considered age-specific fertility rates of women in their child-bearing years? Hey idiots! The conventional international statistical usage is ages 15–44, and has been for years. Man, these people are beyond stupid.

    I don’t know what kind of fluid you’ve been seeing when a women’s water breaks PFesser, but if you’re seeing anything but the mucus plug with a pink tinge, there’s a real problem. Amniotic fluid is 70% fetal urine and has no color or odor. And that was my experience in both the emergency room and the birth of my two children.

  • 309. PFesser  |  April 27, 2011 at 11:08 am

    El Tigre –

    Hey man, you asked…

    Mr. Toad’s Wild Ride is a chapter in a children’s book called, “Wind in the Willows” where Mr. Toad (of Toad Hall) steals a human’s car and lets it get out of control. That is the original reference.

    I don’t give a red rat’s ass about Palin except that she is an embarrassment and a major obstacle to the Republicans’ ever getting back on track and being taken seriously, and this is just ONE embarrassing example of her shenanigans. I have seen quite a few births and as soon as this “birth” story came out, I and my colleagues laughed out loud at such a lunatic fabrication, but much to our surprise the MSM declared it off limits.

    Why does it matter? It doesn’t, except that she could have been the VP and somehow all her skeletons slipped through the “vetting” process – if you can call it that. That to me suggests a major vulnerability in the process we use to select our leaders. (But then don’t get me started on Bo..)

    Andrew Sullivan, a self-described gay conservative, expresses why she matters far better than I.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/daily-dish/archive/2008/11/why-palin-still-matters/208714/

    .

  • 310. Tex Taylor  |  April 27, 2011 at 11:34 am

    Anybody that takes Androgynous Andy seriously as an author simply can’t be taken seriously as a debater…anybody that calls him Conservative is worse. Though Sullivan had a few traits as Conservative, when George Bush came out in favor the Marriage Defense Act, Sullivan went off the deep end. He’s as liberal as Keith Olbermann now.

    What I do find ironic is that before Palin became McCain’s running mate, she held the highest approval ratings of any governor in the nation if memory serves.

    Now one can argue that Alaska is small, Alaska has a weak governorship, she was not a serious candidate, etc….but for whatever reason, Palin was a successful governor before entering the 2008 Presidential race. Her acceptance speech was far and away the most impressive of the 2008 campaign, and though her broad scope weak concerning policy, it was my opinion that she cleaned the clock of the Idiot Joe Biden in their one debate. Oh, that John McCain could have debated better, as it became apparent to me in the three debates that Obama was not the genius we’d been led to believe, and was in fact only marginal without a prepared script. Bo has since proven that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

    Yet I don’t hear the criticisms of the current V.P, who has proven such an embarrassment, he has literally been shelved. It’s fascinating what Conservative women do to liberal abortion providers and weak men.

    Palin will not be the candidate and certainly not my choice as Republican candidate, but she’s far from stupid as the parrots of the MSM would like us all to believe. These loons have made her a multi-milionaire for her troubles, and she continues in that screechy, nasally voice to drive the Left nuts. I predict Palin will continue to be a major thorn in the side of the godless loons for years to come.

    And she’s to be commended for that. :wink:

  • 311. Tex Taylor  |  April 27, 2011 at 11:44 am

    Rutherford,

    I know you can’t answer the difficult questions here and are tired of defending the indefensible, but I am so happy you’ve got Twitter to fall back. :smile: Where would you be without it?

    A twofer – a birth certificate possibly, and your favorite asshole Keith Olbermann is back. That should provide you a ray of sunshine.

  • 312. dead rabbit  |  April 27, 2011 at 11:48 am

    Man, there are shenagins going on with the silver market. It was delivery day, yesterday.

    I’m talking completely out of my ass.

    But, don’t you think it would be in the Fed’s interest to have a way to manipulate the silver market to stop a crazed run from the dollar?

    Huge volume on silver ETF’s. Day trading madness.

    Does any one know who or what audits these silver ETF’s?

    Fascinating shit. If only I could wrap my mind around even the most rudimentary fundamentals.

    I’m not sure its possible.

    There are dark forces at work in the market. Fascinating shit, all of it. But it aint right.

    Mainstream conservatives need to be more critical of the current state of Capitalism.

  • 313. PFesser  |  April 27, 2011 at 11:56 am

    Tex –

    I know you think I am all over the place, but the fact is that I have found the “conservative” and “liberal” stuff to be very confining. I don’t think you can shoehorn folks into those categories and makes one intellectually lazy – “he’s a conservative, so he is a ……fill in the blank. He’s one of THOSE liberals…etc, etc.”

    I am interested in ideas only. It’s a good idea/it’s a bad idea/that part makes sense/this doesn’t. Just my approach, and I feel it works much better for me. I don’t even consider what the conservative or liberal leaders think and don’t give a shit, really…

    You will be wasting your time trying to get a feel of where I’m coming from in most cases – probably the best would be to say Libertarian => keep your hands out of my pocket and your ass out of my bedroom. That is guaranteed to piss off conservatives and liberals alike. I like it that way.

  • 314. Tex Taylor  |  April 27, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    Quite the contrary PFesser, you’re one of the most easy to shoehorn and classify.

    LIbertarian – sure. They come in different flavors, with the most common your classification. Self-absorbed, self-serving and amoral. Concerned with self and not much more. Pretty simple.

    While I don’t consider your type nearly as much a threat as say the general rube at Fat Grannies, as you understand some of the more important issues and aren’t a moron fiscally like, I don’t consider you much of an asset either in solving the real problems either.

    Problem is, it is men like you that gave us Obama which has escalated the destruction of the country. And I’m not sure you learned a lesson from your egregious misjudgment, understanding just how wrong you were. Fence straddling is not part of the solution – it’s part of the problem.

  • 315. Tex Taylor  |  April 27, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    :oops: Strike one of the either’s from above.

  • 316. El Tigre  |  April 27, 2011 at 12:19 pm

    “probably the best would be to say Libertarian.” That’s why you’re reading Boortz.

  • 317. El Tigre  |  April 27, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    R, are you still planning to get to Huck’s comments about the anti war protesters when you get a break from work?

  • 318. an800lbgorilla  |  April 27, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    You know, when I was in the Navy, I served aboard the USS Carl Vinson, and as a youth, I always took advantage of the elk in Yellowstone National Park migrating north. Both of these taught me how to solve puzzles.

    As for R’s response to Huck, why would you expect him to respond? He’s threatened to respond to me how many times, and consistently fails to do so.

    Your petition stands a better chance…

  • 319. Tex Taylor  |  April 27, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    I’ll give you my take on silver Rabbit – but this is sheer speculation on my behalf with a little bit of help of Peter Schiff. And it is sheer speculation when I bough silver a few weeks back.

    I think you understand the fundamentals of why gold is escalating? It’s a hedge against the weakening dollar, and the fact that emerging countries, China specifically, is buying mass quantities of gold.

    But I think what is really driving the price is silver up is this: there’s a historical ratio of the value of gold to silver. The ratio was generally about 16-1. Silver lagged the historical ratio vis-a–vis gold for sometime and it is now playing catch up in a big way.

    If you want to listen to somebody that nailed the tech bubble, the financial collapse, and the real estate bubble, listen to this guy. I know I do. They laughed at him in 2007 (including Republicans). They’re not laughing at him now.

    http://gold-silver-market.blogspot.com/

  • 320. PFesser  |  April 27, 2011 at 12:47 pm

    “While I don’t consider your type nearly as much a threat as say the general rube at Fat Grannies, as you understand some of the more important issues and aren’t a moron fiscally like, I don’t consider you much of an asset either in solving the real problems either.”

    We’re not at Fat Grannies

  • 321. Hucking Fypocrites  |  April 27, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    In Rutherford’s bass-ackward way, he did answer my question when he basically said there are plenty on the left that are not happy with Obama. It doesn’t answer why they are not mobilizing to get out their message, but PF’s comment gets to that.

    At this point, I’ll just say both answers are better than yellowdog would have ever given, and leave it at that.

  • 322. PFesser  |  April 27, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    ‘“probably the best would be to say Libertarian.” That’s why you’re reading Boortz.’

    No, a friend asked me if I knew about the FairTax. I said you mean the flat tax. He said, no, it’s something different and turned me on to Boortz’ two books to get the gist of it. I’m definitely sold. I don’t watch much TV and had never even seen Boortz except flipping the channels.

    Are you familiar? It’s a very, very powerful idea and I can’t find any objection to it except it would put 100,000 IRS employees out of work and they would have to do something useful for the economy.

    Once again it’s the idea, not the guy or his party.

  • 323. Tex Taylor  |  April 27, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    We’re not at Fat Grannies

    I’ve noticed that self-absorbed, amoral Libertarians share a common trait with Liberals besides self-absorption and amorality – they have no sense of timing or humor, and their attempt at humorous retort is always repetitious and tedious.

    I need to create for you some new lines as response P. And once again, I know we are not at Fat Grannies. That’s the point.

    You’re still residing sometimes there in spirit. Bring the body and mind into focus. That’s what allowed you to miscast the El Bongo vote for President in 2008.

  • 324. Tex Taylor  |  April 27, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    At this point, I’ll just say both answers are better than yellowdog would have ever given, and leave it at that.

    The ultimate left-handed compliment. :twisted:

    But I cede your point Huck. :smile:

  • 325. Rutherford  |  April 27, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    R, are you still planning to get to Huck’s comments about the anti war protesters when you get a break from work?

    Too busy writing a new post. :-(

  • 326. an800lbgorilla  |  April 27, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    On what exactly…

  • 327. Tex Taylor  |  April 27, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    “R”,

    Are you going to ever convey and share what bummed you out about your trip? To whatever you found disturbing?

    Curiosity. Morbid curiosity. My new pup may be the death of me, as like his older brother last year, just ripped the wiring harness off the trailer in the backyard.

    Why did I not take this cute little tyke to the shelter again like normal, sane people would? I didn’t need a puppy at this time. :mad:

  • 328. PFesser  |  April 27, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    “I know we are not at Fat Grannies. That’s the point.

    You’re still residing sometimes there in spirit. Bring the body and mind into focus. That’s what allowed you to miscast the El Bongo vote for President in 2008.

    Fat Grannies is another time and place, and irrelevant to this time and place. And you know nothing about my spirit or anything else personal.

    We’re not at Fat Grannies.

  • 329. Tex Taylor  |  April 27, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    But I do know you voted for El Bongo. And that is not irrelevant and not another time and place, and your poor judgment played a small part of what is ruining all of us.

    And how you could run the daughter of another over the express wishes of her father puts you about in the category of say George Tiller in my book.

    Rabbit was right, and I need not express the absolute depravity of that act further. Like I said, if you had done that with someone’s puppy and taken it down to the pound to be butchered, you would be outcast as complete scumbag. I think that about summarizes how twisted our society has become.

    There will come a time in a moment of lucidity your brother’s daughter will hate you for that act.

  • 330. PFesser  |  April 27, 2011 at 1:50 pm

    Tex –

    Obama. abortion.Tiller. puppies. daughter. You’re all over the landscape again, waving fists in all directions. Try to calm down, pick what you want to talk about and I’ll oblige you.

    You know nothing about my relationships with my family – any of them, particularly a desperate 25 year-old with nowhere to turn, so keep your judgments to yourself until you know at a lease a little of what you are talking about. If I may get off-topic and indulge in a little ad-hominem myself, that is precisely the kind of sanctimonious attitude that crawls up MY nose, so we both have some little things that bother us.

    So let’s try – once again – to get back on track and talk about issues – and do it in a way that at least to some degree shows an understanding that to receive respect you must be willing to show a little.

  • 331. Tex Taylor  |  April 27, 2011 at 1:51 pm

    I had to turn FOX News off today and move to the Discovery Channel. I can no longer stomach the news about “the wedding.”

    I will be so glad when the weekend gets here and Princess Kate attends to her royal duties.

  • 332. El Tigre  |  April 27, 2011 at 2:07 pm

    “As for R’s response to Huck, why would you expect him to respond? He’s threatened to respond to me how many times, and consistently fails to do so.”

    That was sarcasm.

  • 333. Tex Taylor  |  April 27, 2011 at 2:07 pm

    What makes you PFesser think I covet your respect? I don’t. I find most of your thought process concerning societal norms and mores an abomination.

    I don’t need to know any specifics of anybody that would march their niece down to the mill over the objections of her own father and their own brother. Unless you can call your own brother the incestuous father, there is no possible justification for your assistance overriding the wishes of your family.. Frankly, that is as awful as anything I’ve ever read on this board.

    As far as your continued insistence on issues, there are no specific issues to discuss. The original material has been covered thoroughly, and now the board has moved to free will which Rutherford allows.

    By the way, why would somebody choose to live in Lynchburg, VA, when they absolutely hate Jerry Falwell? Isn’t that like Hitler moving to Jerusalem? :smile: Now that does tickle my funny bone.

  • 334. El Tigre  |  April 27, 2011 at 2:17 pm

    R, please make your next post about how Trump is playing you and the left as fools. This post was delicious.

  • 335. El Tigre  |  April 27, 2011 at 2:19 pm

    Bwahahahahahahah!!!

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/04/27/trump_to_obama_now_release_your_college_records.html

  • 336. Rutherford  |  April 27, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    I hate your vociferous but naive and ill-informed accusations concerning either subject

    That’s funny, I don’t recall being particularly vociferous regarding the EPA. You have any examples to jog my memory?

  • 337. Rutherford  |  April 27, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    I revealed far more about myself than I should have at Fat Grannies and it was used against me viciously

    LOL I revealed very little about myself at Fat Grannies and their “research staff” came after me. What a piece of work they are!

  • 338. Rutherford  |  April 27, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    Since the fact that he “went” to school in HI is not the issue, do tell what you’re understanding is. . .

    Wrong. One of Donald’s assertions is that Obama’s entire biography is fabricated and he backs it up by asking why we never hear from anyone who ever went to school with him. He then claims folks who went to Kindergarten with him (Trump) could be found if necessary.

  • 339. Rutherford  |  April 27, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    Liberals like Rutherford like to make claim that corporate tax rates are lower than they’ve been in quite sometime.

    Actually, I’ve made this claim about personal tax rates.

    CT is an absolutely horrible place in which to run a business. I pay a “business entity tax” every year for no good reason.

  • 340. Rutherford  |  April 27, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    LOL Snowdrift Snooki and Mr Toad’s Wild Ride. :lol: Pfesser, with those two priceless turns of phrase, you’ve bought yourself a permanent get out of jail free card on the RL blog! I shall henceforth forgive you for any political beliefs contrary to my own. ;-)

  • 341. El Tigre  |  April 27, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    That’s funny, I don’t recall being particularly vociferous regarding the EPA. You have any examples to jog my memory?

    Sorry. Should’ve stuck with just “naive and ill-informed.” Your accusations that deniers are loonies or stupid or whatever label you gave did not rise to the level of “vociferous.” My apologies for the offense. I never would’ve been so careless in compressing a sentence had you been white. That was racist of me. In the future, I will just call you a dickhead! :razz:

  • 342. El Tigre  |  April 27, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    “One of Donald’s assertions is that Obama’s entire biography is fabricated and he backs it up by asking why we never hear from anyone who ever went to school with him. He then claims folks who went to Kindergarten with him (Trump) could be found if necessary.”

    Well read that to mean someone that could back up his story about his childhood. So who is your friend? Since yo got the proof, enquiring minds want to know.

  • 343. El Tigre  |  April 27, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    R, PF didn’t come up with Snowdrift Snooki or Mr. Toad’s Wild Ride.

  • 344. Rutherford  |  April 27, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    Are you going to ever convey and share what bummed you out about your trip?

    I wasn’t really bummed out. I just viewed Old Sturbridge Village from the perspective of a smart ass and spent some time reconciling the idealistic image portrayed to the tourists vs the reality of living in that time, both from a technology and sociological perspective.

    In other words … my mind is capable of ruining any vacation because I over-think sh*t. :-)

    But seriously, I had a reasonably good time watching a steer try to eat my wife’s coat.

  • 345. Rutherford  |  April 27, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    So who is your friend? Since yo got the proof, enquiring minds want to know.

    Suffice it to say, the dude was in my college graduating class. I didn’t know he knew Obama until a couple of years ago when he posted pics to Facebook of them together at fundraiser and then he wrote about his recollections of Obama at Punahou School in Hawaii. Full disclosure, my classmate wasn’t buddies with Obama but knew him. For that matter, he wasn’t buddies with me … but knew me. (I actually knew the woman who would become his wife, a bit better.)

  • 346. El Tigre  |  April 27, 2011 at 6:15 pm

    R, are you sure? Mighty thin. You know, they all look alike don’t you? :razz:

  • 347. A Healthy Dose of Sunlight « The 800lb Gorilla  |  April 29, 2011 at 10:26 am

    [...] which enemies of this President will not stoop to see him undone.” Well, what I actually said was this: We’ve had this chat before- can you explain why he refuses to release the [...]

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