Compromise or Capitulation: Where in the World is Barack Obama?

SYDNEY, AUSTRALIA - JUNE 05:  The new version of the new look Australian Here and Now Monopoly board is launched at Hasbro's Head Office on June 5, 2007 in Sydney, Australia. 16.8 million votes determined which 22 regions made it onto the all new Australian Monopoly Here & Now board.(Photo by Lisa Maree Williams/Getty Images)

The punditocracy seems split over the deal Barack Obama struck yesterday regarding the Bush Tax Cuts. On the one hand, he sold his liberal base down the river. On the other hand he acknowledged that elections matter and showed good faith negotiation with the GOP. Heck, just on one network alone you could get whiplash watching the pundit ball bounce back and forth from Ed Schulz blowing a gasket to Lawrence O’Donnell thinking this is business as usual, to Joe Scarborough putting on his “political analyst” hat and screaming foul. Joe’s position was particularly perplexing in that as a conservative he favors lower taxes but felt Obama made a very bad move politically.

For me, it is just more evidence, in a growing dossier, that Obama has no core. He is first and foremost a politician and his favorite political strategy is reconciliation. Progressives are upset that he didn’t even attempt to put on a good fight to keep the rich from maintaining their tax cut. But where is the surprise here? Apart from fiery rhetoric, when has Obama fought for anything in the past 22 months? Health care? Nope, sorry no fight there. Yes it was a bit of a struggle to get what little we got, but oh we got so little. A real mess of legislation, most of which doesn’t even see the light of day until 2014.

Obama’s unwillingness to put the GOP up against the wall and dare them to screw over the working man in favor of the rich fits a pattern that is trying the patience of the far left. Rendition, Gitmo, and secret wire taps remain. Afghanistan war has been escalated (ok he said he would do that on the campaign but still). The fact that we have not seen what Obama is willing to fight for calls into question whether he truly has any ideology at all. It also brings back bad campaign memories of accusations of relationships of convenience with Bill Ayers and Jeremiah Wright.

To borrow Joe Scarborough’s boxing analogy from today’s “Morning Joe”, Obama hit the mat before the end of the first round. Now that doesn’t erase the fact that his political opponents are rank hypocrites who last night agreed to add 800 billion dollars to the federal deficit. We should also take some small comfort that our paychecks will see a bit of a bump in January due to a 2% decrease in FICA tax. But still, it is a bit disheartening to see Hope and Change reduced to “Can’t we all just get along?”

Your New Banker: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

If increasing the deficit weren’t bad enough, I got a jolt to the system while watching MSNBC’s “Countdown” last night (skip to the 10 minute mark in this video). Sitting in for Keith Olbermann, Sam Seder reported a mind blowing fact that I doubt many Americans know. We talk a lot about how much of our debt China owns. But it turns out we spread our debt around pretty nicely. We owe Great Britain, Saudi Arabia and …. get this …. Iran.  To make matters worse, how much we owe Iran is basically a state secret. In fact, when we first borrowed money from the Saudis during the Carter administration, the deal was contingent on secrecy.

So my question to the GOP is do you have any shame at all? Are you so willing to keep spending money we don’t have that you will do business under the table with a country that wants to do us harm? I was already fed up with the Republican’s hypocrisy regarding borrowed money but now that I better understand the source of the money, I am totally disgusted and you should be too.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

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200 thoughts on “Compromise or Capitulation: Where in the World is Barack Obama?

  1. No shit! We owe Iran? I guess that’s another reason we are so ready to bomb their butt. That will cancel that debt, eh? Oh what a tangled web. When are they ever going to give us the straight skinny. Sheesh. And who was it called them part of the axis of evil? Amerika needs a full length mirror.

  2. Country’s buy the debt of other countries- especially unstable ones who need stable bonds to balance their books. No surprise there, but I would be very interested to know when Iran acquired what they have of our debt.

    As for the deficit, there is a fundamental flaw in your analysis: the money belongs to the people. The left keeps going on about how this is going to cost the government because they (the gov) are giving the rich so much money. It is their money to begin with, they have every damn right to keep it.

    Simle fact, when you earn less, you spend less, and our government doesn’t have an earning problem, it has a spending problem. If you’re so damn concerned with the deficit, which you haven’t been up until now, focus on cutting wasteful spending, like Obama’s party concerts that seem to happen every other weekend.

    It is hard to see your rightous indignation on letting people keep their own money- heaven forbid.

  3. This deserves some sharing…

    TSA story related by a SGT accompanying his unit home from Afghanistan.

    One of the officer’s in the Pentagon shared this…This is
    ridiculous….

    As the Chalk Leader for my flight home from Afghanistan , I witnessed
    the following:

    When we were on our way back from Afghanistan , we flew out of
    Baghram Air Field. We went through customs at BAF, full body
    scanners (no groping), had all of our bags searched, the whole nine
    yards.

    Our first stop was Shannon , Ireland to refuel. After that, we had to
    stop at Indianapolis , Indiana to drop off about 100 folks from the
    Indiana National Guard. That’s where the stupid started.
    First, everyone was forced to get off the plane-even though the
    plane wasn’t refueling again. All 330 people got off that plane,
    rather than let the 100 people from the ING get off. We were filed
    from the plane to a holding area. No vending machines, no means of
    escape. Only a male/female latrine.

    It’s probably important to mention that we were ALL carrying
    weapons.
    Everyone was carrying an M4 Carbine (rifle) and some, like me, were
    also carrying an M9 pistol. Oh, and our gunners had M-240B machine
    guns. Of course, the weapons weren’t loaded. And we had been cleared
    of all ammo well before we even got to customs at Baghram, then
    AGAIN at customs.

    The TSA personnel at the airport seriously considered making us
    unload all of the baggage from the SECURE cargo hold to have it
    re-inspected.
    Keep in mind, this cargo had already been unpacked, inspected piece
    by piece by U.S. Customs officials, resealed and had bomb-sniffing
    dogs give it a one-hour run-through. After two hours of sitting in
    this holding area, the TSA decided not to re-inspect our Cargo – but
    they did feel that they had to inspect us again. And remember,
    we’re all Soldiers on the way home from war, and we had already been inspected, re-inspected
    and kept in a SECURE holding area for 2 hours. Ok, whatever.

    So we lined up to go through security AGAIN.
    This is probably another good time to remind you all that all of us
    were carrying actual assault rifles, and some of us were also
    carrying pistols.

    So we’re in line, going through one at a time. One of our Soldiers
    had his Gerber multi-tool. TSA confiscated it. Kind of ridiculous,
    but it gets better. A few minutes later, a guy empties his pockets
    and has a pair of nail clippers. Nail clippers. TSA informs the
    Soldier that they’re going to confiscate his nail clippers. The
    conversation went something like this:

    TSA Guy: You can’t take those on the plane.
    Soldier: What? I’ve had them since we left country.
    TSA Guy: You’re not supposed to have them.
    Soldier: Why?
    TSA Guy: They can be used as a weapon.
    Soldier: [touches butt stock of the rifle] But this actually is a
    weapon. And I’m allowed to take it on.
    TSA Guy: Yeah but you can’t use it to take over the plane. You don’t have bullets.
    Soldier: And I can take over the plane with nail clippers?
    TSA Guy: [awkward silence]

    Me: Dude, just give him your damn nail clippers so we can get the
    f**k out of here. I’ll buy you a new set.

    Soldier: [hands nail clippers to TSA guy then makes it through security]

    To top it off, the TSA demanded we all be swabbed for “explosive
    residue” detection. Everyone failed, [go figure, we just came home
    from a war zone], because we tested positive for “Gun Powder
    Residue”. Who the F**K is hiring these people?

    This might be a good time to remind everyone that approximately 233
    people re-boarded that plane with assault rifles, pistols, and
    machine guns-but “nothing that could have been used as a weapon.”

    Can someone please tell me What the F**K happened to OUR country
    while we were gone?

    Sgt. “Mad Dog” Tracy

    Can’t make this shit up…

  4. G, taxes are one of the key ways we fund the government so it can function in our best interest. The trick is finding a way to collect those taxes that is fair to all concerned. The progressive tax recognizes that the rich can afford a bigger contribution than the poor can.

    You know full well that millionaires would not miss the lousy 3% that would have been added to their tax bill if the Bush cut had expired. I have said before that 250K was too low a threshold but there is just no reason why a party supposedly worried to death over the deficit should increase that deficit to provide millionaires with more money to sit on.

    One thing that is also real funny in the hypocrite department: the Bush tax cut was only for a limited time partly because it was passed via reconciliation … yeah that vial sneaky procedure that the GOP screamed about during the HCR debate. If the GOP was so concerned about giving everyone permanent tax relief, why did they pass a temporary measure in the first place?

    On top of this is the foolish notion of a permanent tax cut. There is no such thing. Circumstances change. So every tax cut speaks for the time in which it was passed. When circumstances change, that tax may go up.

  5. “So my question to the GOP is do you have any shame at all? Are you so willing to keep spending money we don’t have that you will do business under the table with a country that wants to do us harm”

    This quote goes to show just how intoxicated the Obamaniacs have been, and how hard they have crashed.

    The last 2 years we have done nothing but spend, spend, spend, and we dont have a god damn thing to show for it. Some of us have been screaming about spending the whole time. We were told it was needed.

    And now that the brass on Obama is starting to tarnish with the test of time, his minions are starting to float back down to the real world and are seeing what some of us have been saying all along. QUIT SPENDING WHAT WE DON’T HAVE

    And in true hypocrite fashion…they are screaming about how much the other guy is spending….

    You want the tax cuts paid for? Start by cancelling every uncashed Stimulus check.

    ” I guess that’s another reason we are so ready to bomb their butt.”

    When were we ready to bomb Iran?

  6. “One thing that is also real funny in the hypocrite department: the Bush tax cut was only for a limited time partly because it was passed via reconciliation … yeah that vial sneaky procedure that the GOP screamed about during the HCR debate.”

    Show us the expiration date for HCR and then you can go down this road with the hypocrite claim, champ.

  7. Jeebus. I think you finally relented to the PMSNBC brainwashing and went full-on retarded, Rutherford.

    Obama’s unwillingness to put the GOP up against the wall and dare them to screw over the working man in favor of the rich fits a pattern that is trying the patience of the far left.

    Envy and stupidity is not becoming on you, R.
    Your baseless pontifications aside, I hardly qualify as “the man”, but I am so sick of this whole “soak the rich” and associated memes like “because they don’t pay their fair share/because the deserve it/because they can afford it”

    As a person of color, who freely attempted to chide me yesterday as somehow being against civil rights, you seem more than eager to jump into one of the few classes of discrimination (other than affirmative action’s idiot cousin, diversity) that is not only permitted, but encouraged: Hating on “the rich”.

    Think about it. If you were told that you had to pay more for your groceries, because you make “too much” (as decided by someone else), how would that be “fair”?

    If you were told that the car you wanted to buy was $19,000.00, but because you make “too much” (as decided by someone else), your price will be double, I’m sure that you would be just fine with that, right?

    If you bought a house that was not materially different than any other house on the block, but because you have “too much” (as decided by someone else), you had to pay a third more, that would be eminently fair, wouldn’t it?

    Because I’m sure that the only reason you make more, and are therefore rich, is due to your rapacious greed, lack of conscience, and utter exploitation of others. Ambition, skill, desire, and dilligence wouldn’t ever have anything to do with making more, would it? You might never find yourself in a place where you have “more” than your neighbor because of frugality, sacrifice, and saving, right? And your good fortune in business or in life might not ever be the result of a keen mind, being in the right place at the right time, who you know, or timing, right?

    If I can’t target you for disperate treatment because of your gender, skin color, nationality, or religion, why is it ok for you to believe it is ok to treat me differently based on what I make?
    *
    *
    *
    It isn’t. That’s the point.

    Targeting someone for different treatment on the basis of their pocketbook betrays the very idea of equality under the law, because it says that as a people, we will treat individuals differently on the basis of what they have. It legitimizes the practices of hate and envy, and establishes the principle that people who had the same opportunities (generally) you did and who “made it”, either through hard work or luck, somehow owe you something because you didn’t.

    You aren’t owed a damn thing other than the opportunity to make that attempt yourself. That is what that whole “pursuit of happiness” thing is about. There are no guarantees, and the government has no business protecting you from failure. It isn’t their job, because once they make it their job, they start picking who wins, and who loses. That isn’t for them to decide. Your fate is supposed to be in your
    hands. I’m gonna share with you the best advice I ever got from a wise old business law prof: “Never count the other guys money.” He was applying it to how you react to venture capitalists/investors, but it pretty much applies to life in general, because that envy will eat you up inside, R. After watching the left play this class envy game for most of my life, i’m convinced that it only feeds misery and division.

    And if you spend your entire life finding all the ways to not sucessfully make a widget, your children do not have to share your failure. They might see how to do it. They might make themselves successful in their own endeavors. That’s the genius of this system, and the idea that the successful have to pay more, based on the measure of their success alone, is repugnant. It discourages the kind of innovation and vision that has allowed us to keep building and growing to the point where our technology outstrips our wisdom. It has allowed us to lengthen our lifespans, develop new treatments, and new drugs that do miraculous things. It has allowed people like you and I to publish our own work without subjecting ourselves to editors and publishers who would shape and mold our opinions and outlooks directly, and in imperceptable increments.

    Pretending, as some Democrats in Congress do, that the “rich” have less of a claim to their earnings/property because they make or have more is silly, and if someone tried to tell you that what is yours really belongs to them, you might have a better grasp on the true nature of this discrimination and see it for what it is.

    So my question to the GOP is do you have any shame at all? Are you so willing to keep spending money we don’t have that you will do business under the table with a country that wants to do us harm?

    So my question to you is do you plan on remaining so partisan that you will keep blaming the GOP alone for the spending when the Dems have had all the numbers they have needed for the last two years to pass whatever they want, including budgets that are actually grounded in the revenue we take in?

    The government spends too much money on entitlements. Period. Continue to make unproveable and untrue claims all you want about how we don’t want to cut medicare, social security, and whatever else you like. It won’t make it true, but when it prevents you from having to admit that the government has no business getting involved in healthcare for anyone, I can certainly see where it is appealing.

    You can’t have it all, R. Sooner or later, no amount of confiscatory taxation will grant you any options. Those seeking utopia kept trying to buy it with your money, and my money, and now their using our kids’ and grandkids’ money, and feeding a beast that was never meant to be. The madness can be brought to heel by responsible people now, or by our creditors later, but the bill will come due.

    You’re a parent, R. Ask yourself this: Do you want your daughter’s life to be better than yours? Do you think that can be accomplished if she is paying for our parents’ and our debt?

    I’ll throw the gauntlet right now.

    Social Security: 55 and older? You’ll get some.
    Under 55? Not gonna happen, which wouldn’t be a surprise to any one who was paying attention anyway.

    Medicare? The magic number is again 55. Anyone younger? Nope. And no more Medicaid. The states can fund their own indigent health care, which is as it should be, anyway. That way, each state sets its own criteria.

    I didn’t pick 55 out of a hat. Anyone younger than that has enough time to make alternate arrangments, start being nicer to their kids, etc. Anyone older than that has made decisions on the reasonable reliance that those things would be there.
    Fail to make these choices now, and the odds are your options later aren’t anywhere near as good.

    Lifetime pensions and healthcare based on service in Congress? Gone. As in no more. Its insane to pay someone a pension when they have serve as little as two years.

    I haven’t seen any such courage from the Dems in Congress in the past two years. Hell, they can’t even insist on simple measures like Paygo, even when they trumpeted their support for the concept. But I guess its different when the lights are off and people aren’t watching them.

  8. What kind of a potato head does it take to make this statement as a matter of fact?

    He [Obama] edit is first and foremost a politician and his favorite political strategy is reconciliation.

    You’ve got to be kidding us? You put your name to this? Obamacare is reconciliation? That was pure fascism – rammed down the throats of the American populace who told the powers that be they weren’t interested. Thievery, payoffs, back room deals…public slush funds.

    And you think that is reconciliation? Man, you really are a shallow blockhead. :razz:

    This is what “diversity” gets you…czars like Van Jones posturing as examples of “reconciliation”.

    No, Obama is pure Cloward & Piven.

  9. I came here via a comment from BiW, and you guys have a history, but I’d like to put that aside and see if you’d look at some tax theory for a minute. I’m no economist, but I’ve heard this from people who are, so if I’m a little unclear, please forgive me.

    There is a dollar. How do you get the most revenue from it? Do you raise one hefty tax on it, or do you maximize the taxes that can be charged on that dollar?

    If you do the former, less money goes into the private sector, the argument goes, but the one-time tax goes to the government’s coffers. Fine, you’ve added to the government’s coffers–once.

    If you do the latter, by lowering tax rates, the dollar goes through the economy several more times. People who have that dollar spend it on personal expenses, which incur sales taxes, or they invest that dollar, whether investing in their own businesses or investing in things like securities (stocks, bonds, etc).

    Even if you believe that these people use loopholes to dodge taxes, the money that they’ve invested has to generate some productivity SOMEWHERE in order for there to be any profit, and there will be taxes paid.

    If you’re upset about the fact that “the rich” got to keep their lower tax rates, that’s fine, but wealth creates jobs. Nobody I know ever got a job from someone who was poor.

  10. Hell, they can’t even insist on simple measures like Paygo,

    Rutherford, please show one example of the Dems adhering to this in the last two years, when they had total control of the government.

  11. Quick look over there… There are two kinds in the Teabagger-GOP party the rich and the suckered. The rich don’t come here.

  12. Quick look over here… There are two kinds in the Regressive/LIB party – the bitch and the puckered. The bitches don’t come here.

  13. Ok, Obama, you aren’t really leading anymore. You can’t yell at Libs about compromise and then, seconds later, refer to being taken hostage by the GOP and forced to pay tribute.

    Boys, we can argue the issues all day long. But this president is a pussy who should have stuck to community organizing. The man can’t lead.

    Rutherford, us conservative and Reagan Dems can pay for this tax break and you know it.

    Slash, slash, slash! Let’s start with education gangsters in the DoE first!

  14. Sean, you are correct. The fallacy often advanced by the left is that the economy/resource are finite, i.e. a dollar in his pocket means that there’s not a dollar in someone else’s pocket. In fact the opposite is true. Rutherford here says, “but who’s going to pay for all of this if we don’t tax the rich (Rutherford never addresses small business which employs the majority of the country)?” Well the most simplistic answer is that if we are able to expand the economy — read: small business — the tax base increases (generating more revenue) and the drain on the system through government funded programs (such as welfare, unemployment benefits, private contribution to retirement, health insurance, etc.) decreases. So too does the ability to deal with the deficit.

    I suspect that Rutherford’s response is to “call BS and say that a modest increase “for the rich” (again no mention of small business ands small business owners) has no real stimulative effect because they sock it away anyway. For those that view the economy as a giant piggy bank (finite), there would be nods of agreement. I call BS to Rutherford’s BS. Regardless of whether they do it passively or actively, people with money put it to work, be it a capital investment and don’t sit around ogling it as the left would have you envision. Theoretically capital investment directly or indirectly has a stimulative effect on business and job growth. Rutherford would simply argue that that means off shore investment that does nothing for his peeps. But of course, that is a different problem with a different solution than wealth redistribution. And so it goes. . .

    As for other things Rutherford denies, instability in tax and business expenditures isn’t preventing investment. That’s BS — and the Obama administration itself admits it.

    A tax increase at any level will (but particularly on small business) negatively impacts economic growth. Same.

    Spending on entitlement programs grows the economy more than capital investment. Yeah right. If a temporary spike in GDP is you only objective. In fact, long tem Investment in new industries and sectors is what expands the job market and economy.

    That is my kindergarten version. If MSNBC says soemthing different, Rutherford will dispute it no matter what.

  15. You can always count on the uneducated to not support education.

    China is pulling ahead.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/07/education/07education.html

    Meanwhile:
    There are two unemployment rates in this country. 1) For the educated it is 5% – not terrific but not awful. 2) For the uneducated it is over 10%. DUH. And this uneducated group does not support education. More dumbdication please.

    No wonder the Asians are clobbering us.

  16. But of course, that is a different problem with a different solution than wealth redistribution. And so it goes. . .

    And that’s the real rub, isn’t it? Recognition of that would disempower those who seek to buy votes with other people’s money, and infantilize those constituents with the gospel of “No You Can’t.” It ends up being a perverse symbiosis. The Left’s power elite get to keep the power only as long as they can continue to buy it with other people’s money, and their base can only have the excuse to not do for themselves and accept the candy as long as their “benefactors” can take it from others. But I guess slavery is preferable to to the potential of failing.

  17. You can always count on the uneducated to not support education.

    Dumbdawg, explain to us all how the Department of Education actually enhances education. (I’m not going to ask you how the feds get the authority to even establish a Dept. of Education, because their isn’t any.)

    Be thourough, and show your work. Answers are due by the end of class. There will be no incompletes. Failure to turn in your answer will result in a “F”.

  18. As usual the regressives ask for links. It is a waste of time because they will blow off what ever you post.

    ]The bottom line is they do not support education from anyplace except possibly churches. Forget DoE – support your local school board.

  19. Forget DoE – support your local school board.

    I don’t? Really?

    Well, shit. Why is it that I go to the meetings? Why is it that my participation, and the participation of others like me has been instrumental in keeping a lot of progressive bullshit that more closely resembles indoctrination than it does education out of my kids’ classrooms? Oh yeah, ’cause the dumbdawg…the genius who tried to tell me that we didn’t also put germans and italians into camps during the second world war doesn’t think that I support education, and the place where power over it lawfully resides.

    I’d laugh, if it wasn’t so surreal.

  20. Economic theory says you maximize wealth by increasing utility until the marginal utility equals zero. It is a concept that Rutherford refuses to understand because he is confused to the difference between maximum profit and maximum wealth.

    Rutherford has a legitimate complaint about the profit aspect as it is shortsighted and at least partially explains our current economic dilemma. Too much corporate emphasis has been maximizing short term profit at the expense of creating sustainable growth.

    Where Rutherford’s argument falls flat is that he thinks government more efficient at creating wealth that the private sector. In reality, government’s reallocation of resources (social justice, taxes) is nothing more than reshuffling the deck. At best, it’s a static economic model that does nothing to create wealth. And a good argument can be made that in effect it rewards the least productive at the expense of the most productive, further eroding marginal utility and damaging the possibility of recovery.

    If creating jobs were really the goal, government’s role should be limited to mass projects that would benefit all segments of business – new infrastructure and the like.

    At best, all the “stimulus” package did was address a sunk cost that had fallen into disarray due to the incompetence of the very entity Rutherford and Graychin wish to allocate resources – the maintenance of existing infrastructure.

    And I question if little of that was really accomplished. It quickly became a public slush fund for the deranged, greedy, pandering politicians – a monumental misuse of resources.

  21. Notice the bitch cops out of actually proving a point once again.

    I’d call him a coward, but that’s an insult to cowards…

  22. A question I always wanted to ask the Yeller Dawg, but he’s too ignorant and biased to answer truthfully or objectively, is that now we have proven our education system broken, what sense does it make to increase allowances for a broken system? His solution is to throw more good money at a bad model and hope to change the results which has never worked. In fact, some of the most highly funded public education systems score the worst (like Obama’s former district). Change the model first….

    The “scientific” polls weak men like Yeller use are the ultimate red herring concerning the education argument. While I’m sure it is true that where the aggregate considered and considering the failures of much of public education, America would score poorly. But America’s best and brightest are still the best taught, best educated students in the world.

    I suggest we study the achievers curriculum to model. But lamebrains and liars like Yeller Dawg don’t want the results published, as a highly skewed percentage will come from private and home schooling – and that doesn’t follow the Lib narrative weak men like Yeller Dawg want published.

  23. “Obamacare is reconciliation?”

    Not sure if you honestly forgot or were being sarcastic. Obamacare was forced down our throats with the process called reconciliation.

    “You can always count on the uneducated to not support education.”

    Who here is uneducated?

    Is it the teacher? The lawyer? Who?

    ” Why is it that I go to the meetings? Why is it that my participation, and the participation of others like me has been instrumental in keeping a lot of progressive bullshit that more closely resembles indoctrination than it does education out of my kids’ classrooms?”

    Same here. In fact, because of my own school schedule, I had to turn down a request by sitting members of the board to run in the recent election.

  24. So why don’t you tackle the topic, dog? What do you think of Obama finally leading and learning how to honestly compromise?

    What do you think of “the party of no” coming to the table and reaching an agreement with the opposition just 1 month after the election?

    What do you think of the liberal backlash that Obama has suffered because he decided to negotiate?

  25. Huck,

    If that question is addressed to me about Obamacare being reconciliation, I was of course being sarcastic in my questioning of Rutherford.

    I wasn’t aware they had marketed that flimflam called Obamacare as “reconciliation.” That makes their sale of that abomination even worse.

    Since Obamacare is obviously both unsupportable and unrealistic, not to mention highly ineffective and bloated, it is clear to me for the ends to justify the means, they are going to stop at nothing short of obtaining single payer. And not only will it interfere with the best health are available, it will inordinately increase the costs so that only the very wealthy can obtain good health care.

    Ironic that the very worst enemy of poor people is the very entity Rutherford sells as the solution.

  26. I’m not sure I even agree that the education system is broke. Its just needlessly too expensive and bogged down by bureaucrats.

    Its broke in places where the BiC’s of the world don’t participate. Its broke where people don’t give a damn either way.

    That is a cultural phenomenon.

    I’ve worked them all. Ghetto, prison, blue collar, upper middle class.

    I’m telling you, families’ and an involved citizenry make successful students, not legislation or government decrees.

    We are pumping out scientists and engineers by the hundreds where I work now.

    As for China, true, they are “catching up”. Education is directly tied to a middle class.

    But, are the Chinese inventive?

    I’m convinced we are losing engineers and computer programmers to China because Americans hate those jobs.

    Long hours, tedious mental factory work. Two of my brothers went this rout. They fucking hate their jobs.

    Again, this is another cultural phenomenon.

    Now, we need to toughen up. No doubt.

  27. Liberal dems are trying to block Pelosi from bringing the tax bill compromise to vote.

    So tell us again who is the party of no…..

    Tell us again who doesn’t want to compromise….

    Tell us again which party is going to rip itself apart in a massive schism……

    Pass the popcorn!

  28. “What do you think of the liberal backlash that Obama has suffered because he decided to negotiate?”

    Caving. Obama will be primaried. He was never a liberal. But Clinton is a corpratist, Edwards well… We need a POTUS who knows how to deal with bullies.

  29. As usual the regressives do not like the question Rutherford posed so they ignore it.

    They love pork tooo much. Oink. Tom DeLay lives.

  30. Are you on dope?

    Which question did Rutherford pose that has gone unanswered?

    It can’t be the ones asking about Obama’s lack of spine. We were answering that question before he even got elected.

    It can’t be the one asking where did “Hope and Change” go. We told you hopeandchange was bullshit all along.

    And it can’t be the one asking how we are going to pay for tax cuts. I have offered a suggestion to pay for some of it that has gone unnoticed on 2 different occasions.

    So exactly what question did Rutherford pose that has gone unanswered?

  31. D.R.,

    Education is broken because much of society is broken. Too many have bought into the defeatist attitudes and ineptitude of feckless and self-serving politicians, the weak minded believing themselves too dumb to manage their own lives. Politicians, mostly from the Left, capitalize on this fear.

    Show me a school system of involved two parent households with capable teachers, and I’ll show a school system that will match anything China has to offer – public or private.

    But until we get back to basic attitudes of selflessness and morality, respect to elders and responsibility, the public school systems taking as a whole will fumble around, too busy playing substitute for poor parenting skills.

    Frankly, I’m surprised you have been able to hang with it. I’ve been asked to teach the hard sciences before because of a shortage of capable teachers and the fact I am sitting on my ass, and I refuse to do because of the hassles of lousy parents and idiot administration oversight.

  32. You see, your money actually belongs to the bitch, which he can spend any way he sees fit, since he’s smarter than you and can run your life better than you can. Why? Because he’s a lib and that’s apparently enough.

    I find it a wee bit ironic hypocritical for him to cry about questions not getting answered (absolute bullshit) when he’s yet to ever respond to a question posed to him.

    A yellow dog indeed…

  33. MSNBC was deee-licious last night. Watching the wee-ones struggling with the news that Santa doesn’t really exist will ensure another viewer tonight.

    Looks like R is of the opinion that there is a Santa, but the one they put into office was only wearing a costume. Well if you stay up all night, you just might find him sliding down the chimney, noshing on the cookies you left out.

    The left is really exposing itself for what it is — a bunch of naive, sanctimonious, disillusioned juveniles. Even Obama thinks so. And that revelation is the gift that will keep on giving.

    Keep blaming the guy in the Santa suit for your let down, Rutherford. Maybe the real one will appear.

  34. “What do you think of the liberal backlash that Obama has suffered because he decided to negotiate?”

    The new party of “No?” Consistently hypocritical and funny as shit to boot.

  35. El Tigre,

    I understand Graychin and Yeller Dawg and their political leanings; the first ingratiated into the America Imperialism of the Nam generation – ME ME ME!!. Some outgrew it – he didn’t. He’s a hippie who still buys off on the lie of America is both unfair and evil. The latter is a garden variety, borderline moron.

    But the one guy I can’t quite get a handle on is Rutherford.

    I understand being brought up shortly after Civil Rights and a mistrust of whitey, and raised with the collective opinions that government is the only thing leveling the playing field. But Rutherford has now seen enough and is smart enough to know what a crock that is, how defeatist and corrupt that is, how inept government can be, and yet he refuses to put away his childish thoughts.

    I confess to being surprised that Rutherford isn’t singing Obama’s praises at this minute. For the first time in memory, Obama actually read the majority opinion correctly and recognized a losing hand. He made the best of his situation.

    And I admit a certain joy in that the same lies from the same propagandists that brought Obama into power, are now demonstrating to Obama what we’ve known all along – how unreasonable and unhinged liberals are. They can not be trusted. The same liberals who are scummy, self-absorbed louts that will stoop to any level to retain some semblance of power.

  36. I’m not sure I even agree that the education system is broke. Its just needlessly too expensive and bogged down by bureaucrats.

    *local MEA/NEA offices are trying to triangulate on DR’s position so they can dispatch a team to sanction him with extreme prejudice*

  37. D.R.,

    I’ll tell you a personal story.

    Are you familiar with this collegiate program that is called Teach America? Where they give incentives to the best collegiate students to teach in the underprivileged schools? My oldest daughter for a time entertained the idea of doing that and letting the powers that be pay for part of her med school. She likes to teach and has a great capacity for love obtained from her sweet mom. I won’t lie – she didn’t get that from me.

    As smart as she is, and this is a kid that will graduate Summu Cum Laude this spring with a 4.0 in biochemistry and scored in the top 1% percentile in the physical sciences of the MCAT (I must brag for a minute), I told her not to do it.

    The kid’s knowledge is math, chemistry and physics is unreal and they are begging for college students in that capacity to do so, but I explained to her that the same people she will be teaching, will be the same people that shit on her for the rest of her life. They will call her “privileged” though her only real blessing was two loving parents, and will penalize her successes out of envy and jealousy. They will demand medical services for little or nothing. They will say she makes “too much”, though she won’t get her first real paycheck until she’s at least 31.

    My capacity of this forced empathy from people who most generally are their own worst enemies is sitting on empty anymore. It’s the very reason I stopped with the Habitat for Humanity gig and volunteering in the emergency room. Man, was that an eye opener.

    And don’t think this isn’t a common theme for volunteerism. You lose your ability for sympathy when they turn around and spit in your face when you’re no longer needed.

  38. Obama actually read the majority opinion correctly and recognized a losing hand. He made the best of his situation.

    Tex, in this instance that is part of the problem. He didn’t read the majority opinion correctly. The majority, I think even among registered Republicans, said no to extending tax cuts for the rich.

    It just makes things all that more sticky for Obama.

  39. “So my question to the GOP is do you have any shame at all? Are you so willing to keep spending money we don’t have that you will do business under the table with a country that wants to do us harm? I was already fed up with the Republican’s hypocrisy regarding borrowed money but now that I better understand the source of the money, I am totally disgusted and you should be too.

    Respectfully,
    Rutherford”

    Still no answer – quick look over there . Delete the off topic crap and nothing left

  40. Remind me a story of the demands place on me one night in the emergency room by a morbidly obese guy weighing almost 550 lbs. and his grievance I was “starving” him to death because I wouldn’t get him a sandwich from the diner.

    He couldn’t even lace up his shoes because his feet were so fat, and I had to locate a heavy duty wheelchair that looked more like something you would wheel a refrigerator with.

    The prick was wearing about a Five XXXXX “No Blood for Oil” shirt ripped under the arms like you see these defensive lineman wearing and it still didn’t fit.

    The doc told me to treat him like he was treating me and he’d back me up. I thought about pushing him out in the cold. :smile:

    I don’t know what punishment the doc felt I was going to follow because I was a volunteer. What are they going to do? Fire me?

    This guy berated every nurse as deliquent and cold and continued to do so until the administrator said he was going to transfer the schmuck someplace. He finally shut up.

    And every time I think about the so called “greed” of not providing health care, I think about that man.

  41. He didn’t read the majority opinion correctly. The majority, I think even among registered Republicans, said no to extending tax cuts for the rich.

    I think you’re wrong. Further, I think a great majority of the American populace is getting tired of this class warfare you libs like to play, when most of us know damn well that the super rich aren’t going to pay anyway. Put a tax then on net worth and see how fast Nancy Pelosi and John Kerry shut their mouth.

    “Most of us” recognize that the real people getting screwed are the mom and pop shops that employ 4 or 5 people and that you guys “consider” rich.

  42. So my question to the GOP is do you have any shame at all? Are you so willing to keep spending money we don’t have that you will do business under the table with a country that wants to do us harm?

    You clowns from the Left keep demanding goods and services that you can’t afford and expect anyway. I’ll agree it is abhorrent policy, but would you prefer hyperinflation and a currency war to resolve it? Because our inflation rates are being underestimated as is. Priced food or gas lately, which just happens to be left out of the inflationary government data? Gee, I wonder why? Because that is exactly what you will get if you start placing demands about who purchases our bonds.

    Besides, didn’t I just read your beloved Obama consenting to this?

    President Obama will submit to Congress an unprecedented super sales agreement, if the agreement passed, the United States will sell Saudi Arabia 60 billion U.S. dollars worth of advanced warplanes and other weapons systems the construction of the “Middle East refuges “to counter Iran may have nuclear weapons, and to fill the post left by U.S. withdrawal from Iraq” military vacuum.

    Where’s the feigned outrage Rutherford? Isn’t this equally as egregious, being you and I paid for those secrets?

  43. I told her not to do it.

    With all due respect to your parenting skills, that advice makes you an ass. I hope she ignored you. You don’t do it for the gratitude. You do it because you love doing it. You do it to effect real change in the here and now. Same thing for Habitat.

    You take a smart beautiful girl with ideals and rob her of those ideals and you get a smart cynic like her father. You’re old and disappointed (so am I) but that doesn’t give you the right to strip her of the one thing youth affords — hopeful idealism.

    If you haven’t guessed by now, that comment was very upsetting.

  44. So my question to the GOP is do you have any shame at all? Are you so willing to keep spending money we don’t have that you will do business under the table with a country that wants to do us harm? I was already fed up with the Republican’s hypocrisy regarding borrowed money but now that I better understand the source of the money, I am totally disgusted and you should be too.” – R

    So my question to the GOP is do you have any shame at all?

    What is there to be ashamed of? The claims by Obama that the GOP was against middle-class cuts is an outright lie- they’ve consistently said on record that they wanted tax’s to remain at current levels for everyone. You do not raise taxes during a recession. Period.

    Are you so willing to keep spending money we don’t have that you will do business under the table with a country that wants to do us harm?

    Not raising taxes is not spending money. There is no mental gymnastics that actually justify this ludicrous position. This is like saying that because you didn’t get that raise, then your boss is to blame for your increase in spending. What? Spending and income are two separate issues.

    But this is indicative of the fundamental flaw in the liberal mind- your money isn’t yours. What you get in your paycheck is purely at the behest of the government and you should simply be happy that you get anything at all since it is the government that should provide your needs anyway.

    I was already fed up with the Republican’s hypocrisy regarding borrowed money but now that I better understand the source of the money, I am totally disgusted and you should be too.

    Clearly you don’t understand it.

    There you go bitch, now, answer the questions posed to you.

  45. Think about it. If you were told that you had to pay more for your groceries, … etc etc

    BiW why are you comparing taxes to the free market system? In the free market we price something first, high enough to cover our cost of production and then second as high as the buyer is willing to pay so we make a profit. Taxes don’t work that way.

    Maybe you’re suggesting government services should enter the free market and be priced (via taxes) according to what people feel is a value price for govt services?

  46. Your right in the sense that we should be basing our spending on our tax income, but we’re not, or that is- you’re not.

    There are cities that outsource duties typically reserved for city workers. They’re getting better results at lower prices. Imagine that…

  47. I’d like to welcome all the Taxes,Stupidty&Death/Hostages crowd to the thread today. Hope you’re all well.

    You make more money than me, Rutherford.

    Mmmm, Brad I’d love to know upon what you based that assumption. If I were a betting man, I’d say you make as much or more than I do right now. And I’m talking total family income. If we were to limit the wager to just my income, I’d win the bet hands down.

  48. Rutherford, you really need to think about it. Substitute “Too black”, “too crippled”, “too female’ or “too muslim” for “makes too much” and you see the point very clearly.

    You’d be screaming bloody murder at the audacity of someone charging more on that basis, but if they are “too rich”, you’ll gladly claim what belongs to them actually belongs to the government?

    Yeah. Last I looked, discrimination was wrong, regardless of the reason, or so the left keeps telling us.

  49. Nobody I know ever got a job from someone who was poor.

    Sean this is the sort of truism that clouds the issue.

    Poor people spend whatever money they get on staying alive. So yes, that money goes back into the economy. That’s why during hard times you don’t raise their taxes and if possible you lower them. It’s also why you extend unemployment benefits … because that money doesn’t get “invested”. It goes into the economy immediately.

    If I believed that big business would hire if only their taxes remained at Bush-rates, I might be right on board with you. But the current rates have not caused domestic hiring. As I wrote in a previous article I no longer trust big business to hire domestically or do what is right for our country. As Tex admitted earlier in this thread, big business is about short term maximized profits. And no level of profit satisfies …. there has to be more next quarter and the quarter after that. It’s called greed. And Brazil, Russia, India and China help to fulfill the greed with cheap labor.

    Finally, I have said and will say again, the 250K limit was too low. It should have been 1 million.

  50. please show one example of the Dems adhering to this in the last two years, when they had total control of the government.

    Wiserbud, I can’t. Someone who’s followed the legislative calender over the past two years better than I have, might be able to do it. I do know the current paygo rules were introduced by Dem’s.

    But saying “Dem’s do it too” is not the answer. My problem is that the GOP took a paygo attitude toward unemployment benefits but not for extending tax cuts for the wealthy. I call that hypocrisy.

    Furthermore, when this deficit is extended with the full knowledge that our banker is Iran (among other countries), then we all need to take a step back.

    But elections matter, right? So now we get to see what the GOP will do in the next two years to decrease the deficit and create jobs.

  51. R, I can see why you’re pissed at Obama from your response to Sean. Even Obama and his advisers disagree with what you said. Care to address the effect of a tax increase on small businesses? Your trust or distrust of big business and “the rich” misses it.

  52. You take a smart beautiful girl with ideals and rob her of those ideals and you get a smart cynic like her father.

    My daughter’s ideals were somewhat naive and she agreed after I pointed out a few of the established facts about the world. If they were not true, she was perfectly capable of determining that herself. She asked my opinion; I gave it to her. It doesn’t change her beauty or intellect. The decision was her own. And trust me on this one – after learning the intricacies of Obamacare through her own health experiences from shadowing doctors to playing nurse maid for her roommate, it didn’t take much to dissuade her. Yeah, she’s that smart and understood the consequences of exactly what is going on with respect to health care. She is ten years ahead of her father at a comparative age.

    But don’t worry – the man’s daughter who changed the Tulsa Christmas parade to Holiday Parade (for inclusion) that Poolman thought so grand took up the Teach America offer, and she’s every bit as gifted as my own daughter concerning academics – a 4.0 student too out of BC, full ride, and valedictorian of my daughter’s high school class. She’s a “better fit” for your ideals obviously, as any of that “religious talk” will have no part. You could have had two…

    You’re old and disappointed (so am I) but that doesn’t give you the right to strip her of the one thing youth affords — hopeful idealism.

    Disappointed? Hardly. Slept well in fact knowing you’ve got a much more capable opponent than me coming down the pike to refute the idiocy called liberalism. And she’s far from a cynic or hardened. Call her a realist.

    If you haven’t guessed by now, that comment was very upsetting.

    You Libs have no one to blame but yourself. You’ve attacked everything important to me, from the greatness of America to my faith the last 10 years. You’ve been party to a group of individuals that stooped to depths I never imagined possible from fellow Americans. You’ve lied, propagandized, pandered, even endangered our military to gain power. Consider it the fruits of your well earned labor.

    So I give the big “SCREW YOU” to your liberal idealism, because it’s both phony and vapid.

    You should be aware, these feelings are not directed specifically to you Rutherford. I am grateful to you for the access and the predominate fascism most liberals practice that has no place here. But millions like you have been part and parcel to the spiritual war for the hearts and minds.

    If that bothers you, you should have thought of these things twenty five years ago when I worthless Jr. Senator named Biden coined the term ‘Borked’ by lying about a man eminently qualified for SCOTUS.

    That was the day I grew up politically, and everything I witnessed thereafter from the Left has only reinforced those beliefs.

  53. Put the crack pipe down R. Do you want to know what happens when rich people don’t hire look to RIGHT NOW. Business isn’t hiring because they don’t know how much it is going to cost. I’ve told you this before. They don’t know what their taxes will be next year, they don’t know what is going to fall out of the financial reform act since none of the regs have been written, they don’t know what’s going to fall out of Obamacare since none of its regs have been written either. It’s called UNCERTAINTY and that is the antithesis to business.

    Once again, you let your emotions cloud rational thought. You got laid off R, it happens, move on for Christ sakes…

  54. But saying “Dem’s do it too” is not the answer. My problem is that the GOP took a paygo attitude toward unemployment benefits but not for extending tax cuts for the wealthy. I call that hypocrisy.

    But agreeing that everyone else should have the current tax rates extended without “paying for it” isn’t?

    If you’re so concerned about “paying for it”, then start finding places to cut. We’ve named several suggestions that actually have not a damn thing to do with the proper function of government. There are more.

  55. Wiserbud, I can’t. Someone who’s followed the legislative calender over the past two years better than I have, might be able to do it. I do know the current paygo rules were introduced by Dem’s. – R

    After extreme pressure and you’ve yet to honor it anyway- every legislative act has been an emergency, thus bypassing the paygo rules. Ooooooo, how intellectually dishonest of you.

    But saying “Dem’s do it too” is not the answer. My problem is that the GOP took a paygo attitude toward unemployment benefits but not for extending tax cuts for the wealthy. I call that hypocrisy. – R

    BECAUSE YOU DON”T PAY FOR TAX CUTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT IS NOT YOUR MONEY YOU GOD DAMN BLOWHARD.

    Furthermore, when this deficit is extended with the full knowledge that our banker is Iran (among other countries), then we all need to take a step back. – R

    We took a step back in 2008 after we lost the election. Maybe after the ass kicking you got in November, you’re ready to do the same. You have a long way to go before you recognize your role in the deficit.

    But elections matter, right? So now we get to see what the GOP will do in the next two years to decrease the deficit and create jobs. – R

    Yes we do.

  56. As Tex admitted earlier in this thread, big business is about short term maximized profits. And no level of profit satisfies

    This is true, but in fairness to Sean you missed my premise because in essence I agree far more with Sean than with you. I gave you a partial out but not complete excuse, and to leave Sean with the impression I agree with you is disingenuous. I most certainly do not agree with most of your assessment Rutherford. I find much of it egregious.

    How many times do I have to say that our corporate tax rates are already the 2nd highest in the Industrialized world? How many times do I have to state that when you combine federal, state, city, and sales taxes, plus the multitude of public fees and services, I would wager every one of two dollars goes toward some type of tax for the average consumer?

    Rutherford – we taxed to death – even in death.

    What more do we need to convince you that this class warfare is a dead end? That “soaking the rich” is specious because it’s not the rich paying but the upper middle class.

    If you want to do something productive, why don’t you change the laws for people like Warren Buffett so he gets to pay income tax instead of commissions and fees at the capital gains rate? You’ll notice old fickle Warren never gets around to mentioning why his taxes are lower than his secretary’s. Of course, Warren never gives a plug nickel of additional billions to the tax rolls either. Neither does John Kerry, or Rockefeller, or the Kennedy Klan, or Nancy Pelosi.

    Do you think there might be a little bit of hypocrisy from San Fran Nan in play here Rutherford? Or Harry Reid, who made his millions of acquired land deals and domains? I don’t recall you criticizing Jon Corzine, former head of Goldman Sachs. Did you?

  57. If you want to do something productive, why don’t you change the laws for people like Warren Buffett so he gets to pay income tax instead of commissions and fees at the capital gains rate? You’ll notice old fickle Warren never gets around to mentioning why his taxes are lower than his secretary’s. Of course, Warren never gives a plug nickel of additional billions to the tax rolls either. Neither does John Kerry, or Rockefeller, or the Kennedy Klan, or Nancy Pelosi.” – Tex

    Ahhh, but they did. It is called the AMT and when it was first introduced, it only affected 150 of the wealthiest people. On January 1st, it will impact 28 million.

    Aren’t government solutions grand…

  58. You want to talk about fiduciary fairness Rutherford? Here’s a perfect example, as Obama stocks his cabinet with “Czars.” Or New Jersey teachers “only” make 83K a year. Or we stock up in the DoE with more administrative rejects. Or hire more IRS jack boots.

    You think those assholes are worth more than these men and women?

    A perfect example of why I do not trust our government in any capacity any further and want it minimized. And to guys like Gorilla, I apologize that we take men like you for granted. It’s a pathetic testimony of our priorities in this country.

    http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/2010/12/07/lowest-pay-raise-for-military-in-nearly-50-years/

  59. Two things that have come up repeatedly. First, this uncertainty thing. Are you guys telling me that during economic booms we have not had uncertainty? Uncertainty is a managed risk every business undertakes. You budget for it. Obviously uncertainty hasn’t stopped hiring altogether … i.e. outsourcing is still alive and well. Companies are filling jobs. Just not with Americans. So I understand from you, when all the uncertainty vanishes, big business will sacrifice a bit of that profit and hire more expensive domestic labor? BS … cheap labor is crack. They’re addicted.

    The second thing that has come up is mom and pop shops. OK … I’ve dodged that one because I don’t have an answer. Maybe whatever tax regs get passed have to employ some means of protecting ma and pop. Hell …. I AM a ma and pop shop. I run a biz with one employee. CT taxes me to death. So I’m not unsympathetic to the small business owner. My ire is aimed toward the Fortune 500 basically.

  60. Two things that have come up repeatedly. First, this uncertainty thing. Are you guys telling me that during economic booms we have not had uncertainty? Uncertainty is a managed risk every business undertakes. You budget for it. Obviously uncertainty hasn’t stopped hiring altogether … i.e. outsourcing is still alive and well. Companies are filling jobs. Just not with Americans. So I understand from you, when all the uncertainty vanishes, big business will sacrifice a bit of that profit and hire more expensive domestic labor? BS … cheap labor is crack. They’re addicted.” – R

    There is uncertainty, and then there is no idea what the rules of the game are. You and the Dems have changed the rules of the game, but have failed to tell everyone what those new rules are. Outsourcing is a part of this. Not all of it, but certainly, if you don’t know what the cost of hiring is domestically, at least you know what the cost is internationally.

    Cost is a part of it, but so is quality, which is why we’re seeing outsourced customer support returning to the US. It may have been cheaper, but is was failing and costing them business overall.

    The UAW caused the collapse of GM. The Public Employee unions are causing the collapse of CA and other liberal states. Every state should have a right to work law. There should be NO public employee unions.

    The second thing that has come up is mom and pop shops. OK … I’ve dodged that one because I don’t have an answer. Maybe whatever tax regs get passed have to employ some means of protecting ma and pop. Hell …. I AM a ma and pop shop. I run a biz with one employee. CT taxes me to death. So I’m not unsympathetic to the small business owner. My ire is aimed toward the Fortune 500 basically.” – R

    Purely because of jealousy can class envy.

  61. BiW I don’t believe in class warfare. I don’t hate the rich. Heck, I want to be rich. I believe a preponderance of rich people (not all) worked very hard for their net worth. But I also know that money buys privilege. You cannot cry the same tears for the rich that you cry for blacks, the crippled, or any other recognized minority. Wealth buys comfort beyond belief. Heck … you take any of those other things — black, disabled. etc. and add some Benjamins to it, and they all look a lot better. It’s like what they say about short rich people – “He’s six foot 2 when he stands on his money”.

    We’re talking percentages. Why shouldn’t someone pay a bit more if he has a bit more AND he will still have a bit more when all is said and done? No one is advocating making rich people poor.

    Also let’s return to your free market examples for a minute. You present a hypothetical where the rich must pay more than the poor do for the same things. But let’s look at reality. In a free market system. the rich do pay more — for BETTER sh*t — than the poor do. The rich watch a big screen TV and the poor watch a small kitchen counter-top. The rich buy a Rolls while the poor buy a used Chevy. In other words, money afford privilege.

    Why the pity party?

  62. Companies are filling jobs. Just not with Americans.

    And why would they? When they pay higher taxes here then they would in those other jurisdictions, what is the incentive?
    You see, this is something that can be alieviated with tax incentives as well, but they have to be written correctly, which is where government screws the pooch 8 times out of 10. But when the only answer from progressives is “Give it to ‘em, good and hard”, they shouldn’t be too surprised when the Board of Directors opts for Option C.

    My ire is aimed toward the Fortune 500 basically.

    And you will MAKE. THEM. PAY.

    We get it, Ahab, we get it.

  63. Gorilla,

    I’m not a tax accountant (in fact, I refuse to do them and my wife does them instead) and you could be right, but I don’t see how AMT will affect hedge fund managers.

    Won’t they still be paying the same marginal rates as they did in 2009? That is, basically Buffett’s income will be assessed as “managerial fees”?

    If you want to see Warren Buffett exposed as a liberal hack, with one hand in the cookie jar while the other preaches to the rest of us, read this. It exposes Uncle Warren’s rank hypocrisy concerning the banking issues and financial meltdown.

    The guy is a hypocritical POS.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/40255045?__source=RSS

  64. Wiserbud, I can’t.

    Because it hasn’t happened. Your heroes are liars, yet you still support them at every turn. You deluded little fool.

    But saying “Dem’s do it too” is not the answer.

    I didn’t say that. I said “Dems do it.” You know, the ones who have been in control of both houses of Congress for the last 4 years? The ones who have been in control of all the spending? The ones who have increased the deficit 6-fold since they took control? Your party, Rutherford? Remember them?

    The Dems introduce Paygo and then immediately ignore it, and you give them credit for the introduction, forget the rest and fall right back into your default “Republicans are bad!” mode. Nice game you are trying to play here. Too bad no one is falling for it.

    My problem is that the GOP took a paygo attitude toward unemployment benefits but not for extending tax cuts for the wealthy. I call that hypocrisy.

    A) It’s not a tax cut, no matter what they tell you on MSNBC. The rRepublicans succeeded in preventing a tax increase. No one is seeing their taxes go down.

    B) This continuation of the current tax rates does not cost a dime. Therefore your cute little “paygo” game is silly in the extreme.

    What costs money is the spending. You want to reduce the deficit? Cut spending. It’s that simple. But, as is typical of all progressives, that just never enters into the equation with you, does it?

    (Funny how you are so concerned about the deficit now. Like that was such a huge concern to you when the Stimulus bill was being passed. And who’s the hypocrite here?)

    This is why you are considered an educated clown. You can’t even see reality when it smacks you right in the face. It’s all “Democrats good, Republicans bad” to you and nothing will ever get you to see differently, no matter what.

  65. “Still no answer – quick look over there . Delete the off topic crap and nothing left”

    I see reading comprehension is still not a skill you possess.

    “You want the tax cuts paid for? Start by cancelling every uncashed Stimulus check.”

    That was way up at #3.

    Also, your #13, #16, #22, and #25 are all off-topic. In fact, you only go on topic at #36 after goading from the rest of the forum. So spare us your high horse.

  66. Tex, what are you griping about. We’ve got to come up with money somehow and it certainly won’t be from taxing the rich, so our soldiers get the raw end of the deal. If you bothered to notice, that was the gist of Caffery’s gripe.

  67. Rich people don’t have money, they have assets. So when we talk about the wealth of an individual, it is a little misleading. I encourage you to read up on the AMT. The calculations for how it applies is complicated.

    I brought it up because it is a perfect example of how government class warfare backfires. The tax was aimed at the wealthiest 150 people, but today it affects millions of people. What people don’t understand is that the AMT is a PARALLEL TAX STRUCTURE. Yup, we’re essentially paying to types of federal income tax, and by the time you couple in state and local taxes, the average middle class person sees over half of their money go to taxes.

  68. Rutherford complains about the “Dems do it too” argument in a thread that he started with a post that includes the point “Republicans do it too.”

    I would say “unbelievable,” but, unfortunately, we have seen this level of hypocrisy from him and his kind that make it all too believable.

  69. Are you guys telling me that during economic booms we have not had uncertainty?

    When the President of the United States arbitrarily and with the simple strike of a pen, overturns hundreds of years of contract law to screw the GM bondholders and stockholders out of their investments in order to give the company over to his buddies in the UAW, that creates a level of uncertainty that is nearly impossible to overcome.

  70. “We’ve got to come up with money somehow…”

    YOU COME UP WITH MORE MONEY BY NOT SPENDING AS MUCH OF IT! YOU COME UP WITH MORE MONEY BY NOT SPENDING AS MUCH OF IT! YOU COME UP WITH MORE MONEY BY NOT SPENDING AS MUCH OF IT! YOU COME UP WITH MORE MONEY BY NOT SPENDING AS MUCH OF IT! YOU COME UP WITH MORE MONEY BY NOT SPENDING AS MUCH OF IT!

    Can you hear us now?

  71. Tex, what are you griping about. We’ve got to come up with money somehow and it certainly won’t be from taxing the rich, so our soldiers get the raw end of the deal. If you bothered to notice, that was the gist of Caffery’s gripe.

    I didn’t use the article to defend Caffery’s methods. He’s an idiot. I used it to demonstrate we crap on those who protect us, while rewarding those who screw us.

    I have purposely used two articles that are critical of Republicans, because they share the blame. I would think you would have been grateful for me not being a partisan hack.

    Here’s the solution: cut the hell out of the federal budget in every capacity but this one, and raise the pay scale of the “grunts” dramatically.

    Nobody should be on the battlefield making poverty wages. If I had my druthers, we’d lop every dime from the Dept. of Education and Energy’s budget and allocate it to military pay and Veteran Benefits to be held in a 3rd party pension with government interference. Consider it a wash on expense.

  72. I encourage you to read up on the AMT. The calculations for how it applies is complicated.

    There was a time I thought I understood so I took a two minute refresher course that created more answers than questions.

    One thing I did note: the idiots didn’t even bother to account for inflation – a tax by another name one one that Dims never bother to recall. Like the $250K limit to define rich established in 1993.

  73. When the President of the United States arbitrarily and with the simple strike of a pen, overturns hundreds of years of contract law to screw the GM bondholders and stockholders ..

    Wiser are you telling me GM stockholders were in good shape before Obama essentially saved the American auto industry?

    I wasn’t a fan of the auto bailout on principle but I understood the collateral damage of no government intervention so I resigned myself to it. Now GM is coming back strong and I think in this instance Obama is being vindicated.

  74. It’s not a tax cut, no matter what they tell you on MSNBC. The rRepublicans succeeded in preventing a tax increase. No one is seeing their taxes go down.

    Now you’re playing semantic games. I said “extending tax cuts” not “establishing tax cuts”. Would you prefer if I’d said “extending current tax cuts”? You do agree that the Bush admin put in a temporary tax cut that is expiring …. so for it to remain we need to extend it?

  75. If I had my druthers, we’d lop every dime from the Dept. of Education and Energy’s budget and allocate it to military pay

    Yeah, like a higher salary will make dying for the corrupt Karzai government any more palatable. :evil:

  76. We don’t risk our lives for the Karzai government. We do for the United States of America. Preventing Afghanistan from failing is in our interest. We know the risks of what we do, we take on those responsibilities freely and do not ask of you to do the same. Let us worry about the risk.

  77. “You take a smart beautiful girl with ideals and rob her of those ideals and you get a smart cynic like her father.”

    You expected something else Rutherford? Regressives think of any excuse they can to not help the lest fortunate. Never mind that that misfortune has to do with thier situation of birth. The MEMEME meme is loud and clear. I know folks who have been in Americorp and Teaching for America. It was wonderful.

  78. Would you prefer if I’d said “extending current tax cuts”?

    No, the correct term is “tax rates”. You can play all the silly semantic games you want, but no one’s getting a tax cut from the current rates.

    Nice try though.

    Wiser are you telling me GM stockholders were in good shape before Obama essentially saved the American auto industry?

    So, you are saying that if was necessary to screw the bondholders and the stockholders out of their legal rights in order to save GM? How…. progressive of you.

    What Obama did was wrong, regardless of the outcome, and it told business that that he was not their friend and that he could do anything he wants to do, regardless of the law.

    You want massive uncertainty? That’ll do it.

    Now GM is coming back strong and I think in this instance Obama is being vindicated.

    By the way, you do realize that GM only paid back the money they got from the Feds with the money their finance arm got from TARP, right? In other words, they paid us back with our own money. In other words, they lied to us and you bought it because it made your beloved Obama look good.

    They didn’t turn that company around. They simply shifted the debt.

  79. “Here’s the solution: cut the hell out of the federal budget in every capacity but this one, and raise the pay scale of the “grunts” dramatically.”

    Save your breath, Tex. When we talk about cutting spending, liberals turn our voice into the adult voice used in Peanuts cartoons.

    “Preventing Afghanistan from failing is in our interest.”

    This gets the Peanuts adult voice, too.

  80. I’ve known people who have done great things. Of course, I was nowhere to be seen, but I can live vicariously through their acts!

    I notice the bitch still hasn’t answered any of the questions directed towards him. Stay on topic bitch…

  81. Dog cries that we are going off topic and leaving questions unanswered. Then he goes off topic and completely ignores when we point out that we did answer the questions.

    So dog, no comment on our answers? Or are you waiting for tonight’s Olby edition to give you more talking points?

  82. YOU COME UP WITH MORE MONEY BY NOT SPENDING AS MUCH OF IT! YOU COME UP WITH MORE MONEY BY NOT SPENDING AS MUCH OF IT! YOU COME UP WITH MORE MONEY BY NOT SPENDING AS MUCH OF IT! YOU COME UP WITH MORE MONEY BY NOT SPENDING AS MUCH OF IT! YOU COME UP WITH MORE MONEY BY NOT SPENDING AS MUCH OF IT!YOU COME UP WITH MORE MONEY BY NOT SPENDING AS MUCH OF IT! YOU COME UP WITH MORE MONEY BY NOT SPENDING AS MUCH OF IT! YOU COME UP WITH MORE MONEY BY NOT SPENDING AS MUCH OF IT! YOU COME UP WITH MORE MONEY BY NOT SPENDING AS MUCH OF IT! YOU COME UP WITH MORE MONEY BY NOT SPENDING AS MUCH OF IT!YOU COME UP WITH MORE MONEY BY NOT SPENDING AS MUCH OF IT! YOU COME UP WITH MORE MONEY BY NOT SPENDING AS MUCH OF IT! YOU COME UP WITH MORE MONEY BY NOT SPENDING AS MUCH OF IT! YOU COME UP WITH MORE MONEY BY NOT SPENDING AS MUCH OF IT! YOU COME UP WITH MORE MONEY BY NOT SPENDING AS MUCH OF IT!YOU COME UP WITH MORE MONEY BY NOT SPENDING AS MUCH OF IT! YOU COME UP WITH MORE MONEY BY NOT SPENDING AS MUCH OF IT! YOU COME UP WITH MORE MONEY BY NOT SPENDING AS MUCH OF IT! YOU COME UP WITH MORE MONEY BY NOT SPENDING AS MUCH OF IT! YOU COME UP WITH MORE MONEY BY NOT SPENDING AS MUCH OF IT!

  83. So be it and AMEN.

    Yeah Rutherford, everything in life is how you’re born. You’re a testament to that. Right? Harvard born and bred?

    Fortunately for us, Rutherford’s mother didn’t listen to garden variety morons like Yeller Dawg and piss away her own son’s life as a lost cause because he wasn’t born into blue blood.

    Sorry Rutherford – didn’t mean to use you as good example to demonstrate just how wrong Yeller is about everything.

  84. “Uncertainty is a managed risk every business undertakes. You budget for it.”

    Duh. Budgeting in this instance mean NOT HIRING and assuming unknown expense.

    I will say it again even though you don’t seem to care, R.

    I am an employer. We have about 30 (split equally between staff and lawyers). We are not hiring because of the unknown tax and health care expenses coming down the pike. Do you hear me? WE ARE NOT HIRING BECAUSE OF THE UNCERTAINTY. PERIOD.

    It’s galling to have you repeatedly deny the truth as though you add weight and credibility to a patently false assertion through repetition.

  85. Honestly, I do find something sadistic about hunting for pure pleasure. If you cook it, or wear the skin, I can see that. But just to kill for the thrill … no, I really don’t get that.

    But I wouldn’t single out Sarah for condemnation on this one since she does belong to a huge hunting fraternity.

  86. BTW …. I do love Crazy Larry and I don’t apologize for it. You might be interested to know that Larry was the only primetime MSNBC anchor who didn’t go apesh*t over Obama’s compromise.

  87. So …. question for all those herein assembled:

    Has the “Obama Compromise” moved the needle for any of you? Do any of you have a change of mind about him? Do any of you credit him with listening to the November results? Or does he remain the despicable Marxist Kenyan he was last week? :roll:

  88. Rutherford,

    Can you imagine what that gun could have done to a Lib’s head? Sarah puts you in the cross hairs, you’re toast pal! :smile:

    I’d actually pay to watch Sarah Palin hunt Joy Behar and Kathy Griffin. Now that would be entertainment worth watching.

    Joy’s fat ass, measured with the scope, a firm squeeze of the beautiful Palin finger, then KABLOOEY! Bagged another boar.

    That’s hard to keep both hands on the keyboard and type that. Gives me the willies just dreaming about it.

    AHHHHH…

  89. Do any of you have a change of mind about him? Do any of you credit him with listening to the November results?

    A little bit. I was more impressed until Obama finished with his childish tirade – but that may have been more directed at guys like Yeller Dawg than me. I think feckless fellow libs piss Obama off more than Conservatives have ever been able to accomplish.

    Do it some more. :smile:

  90. I can’t believe people are ripping Palin for taking that Caribou.

    What, you libs think we are evil because we hunt? Are you kidding me? Rutherford, this may be hard for you to believe, but Palin is a human being who eats.

    You also know hunting saves animals, don’t you? Or maybe you don’t.

    I saw Obama eating a hamburger in a diner. How come you’re not complaining about that? Or maybe you’re so disconnected from nature you don’t really get that meat is an animal?

    The same people that bitch about the harvesting of a buck defend the gruesome death of a baby in the womb.

    And that, my friends, is why I will never be a liberal.

    You people are too fucking dumb to call hypocrites.

    Rutherford, you should go out hunting with me next year. You will never have a better understanding and closeness to nature. Who knows, you might even have a strange yearning to thank God.

  91. Or does he remain the despicable Marxist Kenyan he was last week? :roll:

    Did you see his angry attack on everyone who disagrees with him at his press conference yesterday?

    He agreed to this deal because he is not a leader and he is not a fighter. He is a weak whiny child who was unable to sell his ideas to the American people. So he rolled over.

    So no, this changes nothing about him. The only thing that has changed is that more people now know what he really is.

  92. COME UP WITH MORE MONEY BY NOT SPENDING AS MUCH OF IT!

    Imperialism is pricey, dude. Let’s see some REAL conservative action behind the rhetoric. Reduce our 737 military bases all over the globe and our appetite for destruction. That’s the cancer spreading so fast NOBODY on the right OR the left wants to cut that is causing the decay of this once great land. Sorry, but if your precious job contributes to the aid or escalation, YOU are part of the problem.

    If Americans would visit the real world instead of the fantasy the pundits and MSM feed them, we might just be able to see that truth. Cutting back on social programs and pushing consumerism forced families to take on two or more jobs by BOTH parents just to keep up with the Joneses, leaving the kids to be raised by teevee and daycare. Manufacturing bullets and bombs in excess of any one country’s need has helped put us right where we are today. Selling those same goods to both sides of conflicts all over the planet keeps those businesses in business. War is ALWAYS profitable. That is really all we care about. Defense spending, my ass. I call bullshit.

  93. I’m labeled the conspiracy nut… And you don’t think some agency brainwashed a malable young zombie to shoot and kill one of the most outspoken voices against all that madness 30 years ago today? With all the money on the table and psyops a major pasttime. Yeah, you’re right. Pure coincidence.

  94. Poolman,

    What does “pushing consumerism” mean? I actually agree with you to some extent. But, dude, people choose their own life path. Group think is group think. You seem to blame some wizard behind the curtain-an all powerful THEY.

    If you are into the blame game, how come you let mainstream feminism off the hook? I can’t count how many women who feel duped by the pillars of feminism. In their eyes, it ripped the baby out of their arms as a “career” was deemed more important. This was all tied into consumerism, of course.

    I have since chosen to renounce consumerism myself. My wife is at home with the kid. This was also a choice. No doubt, I had to get a little gangster to do it. But, we are a stronger family now. Moral hazard, be damned. And the home cooked meals can’t be beat.

  95. Ok, just turned on the news. Did President Dumbs go on TV yesterday without knowing if he could get the tax cuts through the Dem House?

    LOL.

    I’m starting to feel sorry for him.

  96. “Or does he remain the despicable Marxist Kenyan he was last week?”

    The despicable Marxist Kenyan he was last week. Tiggers gotta pounce.

    And we of course are terrorists, right?

  97. And you don’t think some agency brainwashed a malable young zombie to shoot and kill one of the most outspoken voices against all that madness 30 years ago today?

    :razz: What agency? :razz:

    Who was it that killed John? I’m just dying to know…

  98. Rutherford, please delete my above comment.
    Editor’s note: Hope you were serious cos it’s done. (‘Fraid of getting in hot water like Jim Cramer did? :-) )

  99. Rabbit,

    Purchased my first silver six weeks ago and have made about a 13% return so far. Wished I had bought more.

    I actually based the decision not on fad, but by taking a look at the remaining estimated reserves, and the fact that silver is a large component in many green energies – especially solar panels.

    I’ll probably get burned somewhere down the road. :sad:

  100. What does “pushing consumerism” mean?

    The first thing they teach you in capitalism 101 is you need to find or CREATE a market for your product or service. We call it advertising. That is what pushes consumerism. Rabbit, it you didn’t watch that Psywar video, it’s worth the free view. It doesn’t lean either way, IMO. As soon as we see how well it works to create a demand, we shape the market for whatever end result we want. It is blatant and it is subtle. It is emotional and subliminal. Human herding, really. Takes years of on-message cues. It is a real science.

  101. Tigre,

    I can’t answer for Rutherford for sure, but I would bet $10.00 to a donut that whoever has the ‘D’ insignia next to their name gets the Rutherford vote.

    I doubt Rutherford has ever voted for a “R’ is his life – he’s an ideologue thru and thru and will never change.

  102. Imagine. As I suspected. It’s always telling when a “leak” is made mainstream. It isn’t always what is in the message as it is what is missing from the message. All good diversions ride on rails of truth. Imagine.

  103. Well I’m not so sure about the “never change” part. Never say never. Hell, once I get back on my feet financially, I may get super protective and go full blown fiscal conservative …. and if being a social liberal hurts my money situation, f*ck that too … I’ll go full blown Tea Party/GOP!!!!! ;-)

    After being a lib for almost 32 years (I’m counting from my first vote in 1979) maybe it’s time for me to dance on the other side of the room in my twilight years? ;-)

    In answer to Tigre’s question, if everything about Obama had been the same except his ethnicity I absolutely would have voted for him.

    In fact, I thank my lucky stars that he was Obama. Had the nominee been Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson, I would have had to make a decision about whether having the first black president was that important to me. Obama made it easy.

    My problem right now is I don’t think Obama is the man I voted for. I promised him at least an 18 month honeymoon to get his feet on the ground. Time is basically up and I’m starting to get concerned.

  104. Speaking of wikileaks (following on Poolman’s article) have you heard about this sh*t going down with MasterCard and Visa taking cyber hits from politically motivated hackers?

    Gentlemen, we have entered the age of cyber-terrorism … my article to follow within the next 24 hours (if THEY don’t silence me first) :shock:

  105. Rabbit, first of all, you seem to have ignored the part where I said hunting for food and clothing is ok by me. I have a problem with thrill-kill hunting. Since I don’t watch “Sarah Palin’s Alaska” I don’t know what she did with the caribou. Did she sell it to a butcher? If so, I can stomach her killing the thing a bit better. YES I love me up some Burger King junior whopper and I’m not overly upset Bessie had to die for me to enjoy it.

    As for hunting with you Rabbit, even though I’d love all the male bonding, I’d be forever on my guard for a Cheney moment. The last thing my radio-ready face needs is a round of buckshot in it. :-)

  106. Rutherford, I always wondered how people believed that Cheney hunting incident was accidental. Every hunter and gun owner I know confirm there are no accidentals like that. I sure don’t see Darth as doing anything unintentional. Maybe it’s just me?

    The free and open internet IS the biggest threat to those controlling the message, for sure. My buddy McCain tried shutting it down. Definitely watch for the cyber narcs and fight off censorship. I have already found a lot of stuff that was up is just gone. Hey Big Brother.

  107. I think we’ve got a full blown conspiracy nut on our hands in Poolman. I’m a little more than surprised he’s a lib at heart (though he calls himself Ind. – don’t they all?)

    Israel? Where did you find that goosestepper site Poolman? I thought I was reading parody – something along the lines of The Onion.

    Before Rutherford starts in with his usual “Tex protects Israel at all costs and they can do no wrong” routine, let me tell you why this will eventually prove it ain’t Israel.

    If Assange had actually been paid by Israel and he opened his mouth playing demigod like he has, he’d be dead and found with a bullet in his head, or holding an exploded cell phone fried to his palm, or glowing like a radioactive beacon. Unlike us, Israel still knows how to act like men and deal with terrorists.

    To you and I, maybe it’s just a game. To Israel, it is survival.

  108. Poor Obama – Libs are going nuts today. Comparing him Neville Chamberlain (snicker), stating the end game is Obama’s wish to privatize social security ( :lol: ), “progressive” Katrina Vanden Hupendupen emphatically stating for the record that Obama has missed his historical mandate (guess she missed the election last month).

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/06/AR2010120606022.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

    Rutherford, you sure you want to pal up with these loons forever? I mean, come on old friend. Me being Obama’s biggest critic the last three years, is forced to admit he had a pragmatic nature about him I hadn’t before seen. And you’re going to let these inmates loose from the asylum bad mouth The One?

    Where’s your backbone “R”? Where’s the spunk I first read from you 2 1/2 years ago in defense of liberalism? Where’s that feisty nature and big set of gonads to defend the pride of Styrofoam columns and fabulous teleprompter speeches, as Obama winged another under the bus?

    BE A MAN! RISE UP “R!” Show us you’re not afraid of these traitors, these would be “progressives.”

    One last question.

    You sure you don’ t think a majority of Liberals crazy? Still?

  109. Obama was voted in because black is cool. Deny it all you want, I am confident you know it’s true. One need only look to pop culture — the one viewed with an extreme (but passing) adoration beyond that of conservatives. Of course that is why Hollywood and liberal elites play to it.

    You elected a celebrity president who having lost his status (especially after the ass kicking last month) and the bitter let down follows as with any other fallen celebrity.

    As shown in the lastes news cycle, the dems will kick him hard now that he is down in an effort to distance and differentiate themselves from the “cool guy” that is no longer “cool” for fear thay be viewed a fool. You know –the teenage girl taking down the posters of the boy bands she once worshipped but will no longer admit that she did lest to ensure she fits in.

    Oh now it was an “ideal” and not the man (which doesn’t explain the tee-shorts, chanting and praise, logos, false paraalells to hugly historic figures etc., etc.). How could that be? A black man’s motives and convictions are sacrosanct to the left — just ask G-chin or review your own posts here.

    Reality is a bitch, ain’t it? For the first time since his election, Obama has done something difficult that needed to be done. For the first time since the election, Obama appears to have . . . you know, lead. And his former biggest “fans” reject him. Well actually worse if you watch MSNBC (which we all know you do to staggering degree). The rhetoric borders on hatred, contempt, and ridicule from the douchiest of douchee on the left ( I caught some of CNN and Maddow last night and nearly wet my pants laughing). If it weren’t recorded thay’s all probably deny they ever supported the guy — like the teenage girl with her no-longer-acceptable ti the “in crowd” boy bands.

    I am sorry our first black president sucks as bad as this one. But even more disturbing is your feigned surprise. You got exactly what you voted for — an image. Once fallen, it is a rare, rare few that rise again and it’s always in the long run, not the short term (ask any resurgent pop star). He’s toast.

    It’s time for the left to grow up. Obama’s either going to lead, which requires comspromise, or belly ache and whine about how he was foiled through everyone’s fault but his own (the antithesis of leadership) in a futile attempt to win back his fans — the ones that have really already left him to ensure they’re part of the click.

    There is nothing about the economic analysis you pound your fists over that makes sense. Nothing. Obama, the guy you elected, the first black presdient, the celebrity, the symbol of advancement, fairness, and social justice knows it — in fact says it. But since that conflicts with the image “you” projected on to him it must be wrong.

    Time isn’t running out for anything. You got what you asked for which came with an expiration date. It has now (thankfully) gone sour.

  110. Well Tigre, I don’t say this to many commenters but that last comment of yours is blog-worthy. As I’ve said to Rabbit, you ever consider starting up your own thing? Not that I ever played you for a dumbass but that last comment was really quite well put together.

    Ok …. flattery over.

    Very simply, if you really think after what George W. Bush did to this country that anyone could have been defeated by John McCain, you are smoking dope. We would have elected Eminem …. we would have asked for a suspended sentence for Charlie Manson (who somehow got hold of a cell phone behind bars last year … WTF?) and had him run against “Man-shouts-at-cloud” (aka “Hey-kids–get-off-my-lawn”).

    Fool yourself into thinking Obama’s victory was nothing more than affirmative action all you want. I’m here to tell you America needed to wash the stench of Bush off badly.

  111. And now for all you Palin fans!

    GO AWAY, SARAH PALIN, GO AWAY
    YOUVE HAD MORE AIR TIME THAN BRITTANY OR O.J.
    YOUR IDEAS WERE UNSPECIFIC,
    BUT YOUR OUTFITS WERE TERRIFIC
    GO AWAY, SARAH PALIN, GO AWAY

    GO AWAY, SARAH PALIN, PASS THE TORCH
    GO ON BACK TO WATCHING RUSSIA FROM YOUR PORCH
    YOU HELPED OUT WITH THE ELECTION
    THANKS, McCAIN, FOR YOUR SELECTION
    GO AWAY, SARAH PALIN, GO AWAY

    GO AWAY, SARAH PALIN, ITS GOOD-BYE
    YOU SAID ANY OPEN DOOR WAS WORTH A TRY
    WELL, HERES YOUR OPEN DOOR
    LET ME SHOW YOU WHAT ITS FOR
    GO AWAY, SARAH PALIN, GO AWAY

    GO AWAY, SARAH PALIN, CUT IT LOOSE
    GO ON BACK TO HUNTING WOLVES AND DRESSING MOOSE
    AND WE HOPE THAT WHEN YOU GO THERE,
    ITS YOUR FINAL BRIDGE TO NOWHERE
    GO AWAY, SARAH PALIN, GO AWAY

    WEVE STILL GOT TINA FEY
    SHE WAS BETTER, ANYWAY
    GO AWAY, SARAH PALIN, GO AWAY

    (Back to Alaska, at least for four more years!)

  112. It is predictable that Tex supports the nation of Israel at all cost, even though they regard ALL of us nonJews as goyim and therefore expendable. He is right about their intelligence capability and truly if Assange WASN’T on their side, he wouldn’t have made it this far and surely would NOT have made primetime news. Even Brit Hune of Fox News did this investigative reporting as aired post 9-11in this short video. His report starts just after the 2 minute mark. Try finding that in Fox’s archives.

    The bulk of “Christianity” today get the whole Israel nation thing wrong and use it to support the current nation of Israel as “God ordained”, when these beliefs cannot be supported anywhere in scripture. Like all fundamentalists and dominionists, he isn’t aware that Esau is controlling that house now. Jacob was the true line. He needs to go back and read the blessings their father placed on these two brothers to begin to see the light. The new nation of Israel is not the same as “spiritual Israel”. It is evident throughout scripture. Jeremiah was prophesying regarding the church, aka “spiritual Israel”, aka “bride of Christ” in chapter 31 verses 31 through 33:

    The days are surely coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It will not be like the covenant that I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt—a covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, says the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    This is exactly what is said in the book of Hebrews chapter 10 and verse 16. If God was talking about a physical nation, then the Maccabean period, which came after Jeremiah (from 167 – 63 B.C.) and was known as a “time of peace and independence” would have fulfilled those promises.

    The jist is always that if you oppose the nation of Israel and their policies, then you are an anti-semite. It is the same false logic that believes if you criticise America, then you are anti-American. It is just more herd mentality.

  113. Thanks for the flattery, Rutherford. You’re still wrong — but since you’re the only liberal bloggers I think is worth a shit, I’ll accept the flattery for whatever it’s worth. I just wish I had an editor and more time during the day to play along rather than just make hits and runs.

    Truth be known, I am gobsmacked at what has happened to Obama since his election. Not that it did, which as I said was inevitable, but the sheer speed and timing of it all. It got me thinking as I was brewing this morning’s coffee.

    What I didn’t make clear in earlier comment/question was that I was referring to the primaries — not the general election. Why not Hillary? Compared to Obama, she was a known quantity and real experience. Again “compared to Obama.” Seriously, a community organizer with “doesn’t count” experience as a senator. And with all of the baggage (Ayers, Wright, questions of citizenship etc., etc), there is no question in my mind that he NEVER would have won the nomination if he were white.

    The pattern I see with the left is that the accolades always seem to precede the accomplishment. Although I think I know answer (and it doesn’t flatter my belief as to the mindset of the left), I think thye dems need to ask themselves why that is. The result, as with Obama, will always be the same. An inability to live up to the impossibe-to-meet image that is ultimately the source of worship.

  114. Poolman… :lol:

    I find you humorous…I’m not sure where you did this stuff up, but it makes for entertaining reading. Fundamentalist? Dominionist? You read like something between a wolf in sheep’s clothing, a Brown Shirt, and a Dan Brown conspirator and author.

    I’ll bet a hundred bucks you can’t properly define either and I’m neither. I do consider myself a member of the Evangelical Church, which contrary to you Wikipedia definition, is not synonymous Fundamentalism. For instance, “Fundamentalism” has become conflated with anti-intellectualism. Do you consider me uneducated?

    ———–

    Esau, huh? Well, if you can show me one nation built from Esau with scripture, I’ll change my mind because the ‘quick’ perusal thru the O.T. will demonstrate to you there are none. Vanished without a trace.

    Ezekiel 37 and 38 are but two chapters of one book that clearly demonstrate God has now fulfilled his covenant through the prophets. The bones of antiquity are now living and residing in God’s land.

    If God was talking about a physical nation, then the Maccabean period, which came after Jeremiah (from 167 – 63 B.C.) and was known as a “time of peace and independence” would have fulfilled those promises.

    I’m not sure which is worse – your history, your biblical know how, or your conspiracies. During the period you have listed (immediately after the Maccabean Revolt), the nation of Israel was a pawn between Julius Caesar and Pompey the Great. The final result was that remaining Israeli kingdom under the authority Roman governor of Syria, well before the period you’ve listed and somewhere around 65 B.C. There was no peace under Rome.

    In addition, the scripture you reference would have been referring to after the failed Judean revolt of 70 A.D. There is no historical argument about that date. That is why it is called the “NEW” Testament Poolman.

    Somebody or someone or something is spoon feeding you some really bad information.

  115. So it looks like House Dems are going to kill the agreement between Obama and the GOP.

    Why don’t House Democrats like unemployed people? They know that this deal is part of extending unemployment benefits that we keep getting told will help the economy. We keep getting told they need this extension to they can make their house payments and rent.

    House Democrats don’t care. They are holding unemployment benefits hostage just because of an estate tax.

    This is like terrorism or something….

  116. Fool yourself into thinking Obama’s victory was nothing more than affirmative action all you want. I’m here to tell you America needed to wash the stench of Bush off badly.” – R

    Yet, Gallup has G.W. Bush polling higher than Obama. November 2010 was the rinse, November 2012 will be the scrub…

  117. Not to mention electing Hillary would have had the same effect.

    No. It was always about Obama being black. He wanted it that way. He was always the only one ever bringing up his race. I guess he wanted to make sure his light skin and articulation didn’t throw us off like it did to Joe Biden.

  118. Actually Huck, a little perverse thinking here outloud.

    I think long term, a liberal block could be a great thing.

    First, it pits Obama against his base angering these irrational idiots further; second, when even the lower middle class feels the sting of higher taxes, and they would if the extensions not passed, it would point the fingers right at the Democratic party. And there are at least seven more Dimocratic Senators up for reelection in 2012 in states that overwhelmingly switched back to Republican in 2010 (i.e. – Virginia and Missouri)

    It will pass because it has to pass – if it doesn’t, the markets will tank and a replay of Sep 2008 would ensue, further leading to an erosion of both the economy and trust of Big Government. Once the new Congress takes hold, it wouldn’t take 24 hours for the extensions to reach back to Obama’s desk for approval.

    If the inept and petty bastards are that stupid, I say let’s hand them the shovel to dig their own grave.

    It would be a painful three weeks in 2011 – but with more guns pointed toward the head of liberalism which is already falling apart. Americans are so fickle, I don’t want them forgetting what a dismal failure Obama and his cronies have been.

  119. Tex, it’s the hypocrisy that is making me ill.

    We’ve heard for 2 years about how the GOP blocks everything (even though for much of that time the GOP didnt have the power to block ANYTHING). And in this president’s first and thus far, only attempt to find common ground, its the Democrats who are being obstructionists.

    Taxes are going to go up for the entire country–including the middle class, and it will be Nancy Pelosi’s fault.

  120. House Democrats don’t care. They are holding unemployment benefits hostage just because of an estate tax.

    This is like terrorism or something….

    House Democrats don’t care about black people. — Hucking “Kanye West” Fypocrites :-)

  121. Of course it is hypocritical – the obstructionist charge always was. Completely specious.

    Obama is learning the hard way that hypocrisy it the middle name of all Progressives.

    He ought to know. :smile:

    Barack Hypousseinocrite Obama.

  122. “Obama is learning the hard way that hypocrisy it the middle name of all Progressives.”

    Obama is learning what a sorry lot his own party is. Pathetic.

    p.s. sorry for the incomprehensible prior post. I need to practice reading through before hitting send. I wish there was an edit feature.

  123. More than 50 percent of Americans say they are worse off now than they were two years ago when President Barack Obama took office, and two-thirds believe the country is headed in the wrong direction, a Bloomberg National Poll shows.

    The survey, conducted Dec. 4-7, finds that 51 percent of respondents think their situation has deteriorated, compared with 35 percent who say they’re doing better. The balance isn’t sure. Americans have grown more downbeat about the country’s future in just the last couple of months, the poll shows. The pessimism cuts across political parties and age groups, and is common to both sexes.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/09/AR2010120900006.html

    Well, really, enough said…

  124. Actually Tex, I think you are very intelligent. But that doesn’t mean you are right. I know you have a passion for this. I certainly don’t have all the answers, but many sources help shape my understanding. Few are 100 percent accurate, but many give light to truth.

    Well, if you can show me one nation built from Esau with scripture, I’ll change my mind because the ‘quick’ perusal thru the O.T. will demonstrate to you there are none. Vanished without a trace.

    This source provided much insight, though, like I said, I don’t adhere to everything 100 percent. They are essentially referring to this nation of Israel as built by Esau.

    As far as the dominionist and fundamentalist charge, I was under the impression you support the views held by Palin and Focus on the Family, who along with Franklin Graham are a part of that camp. If you believe every word in the Bible is the infallable word of God, and that every verse in there holds the same weigh, then you would fall in with the school of fundamentalism. Anyone promoting the “seven mountain” theology is a part of that deception. I may have misjudged you if you oppose these agendas. I am still flexible and able to adjust my views as I find truths that contradict any of my existing conclusions.

  125. BTW Rutherford, I didn’t say it was affirmative action, which is actually worse. I am talking about downright delusion and idol worship with a very healthy dose of rationalization. But hey, how else would Obamas and Gores get Nobel Peace Prizes for all of their achievements?

  126. I’ll hold this short for brothers Huck and Gorilla’s benefit. Skip on bye my brothers-in-arms. :smile: This is specifically addressed to Poolman.

    ———–

    I do hold to the same basic beliefs as the dreaded Focus on the Family (I think James Dobson is brilliant) and Franklin Graham. Both do a phenomenal number of great works, contrary to what men like Rutherford and girls like Graychin say. Both Dobson and Graham I believe the real deal and both have taught me much – in Graham’s case, more so the father.

    Sarah Palin is but one of millions of professed Evangelical Christians, so I suppose her core beliefs would mesh with mine. Don’t know. She’s certainly not my candidate of choice, but I like her.

    And yes, I believe the Bible is the inspired, inerrant Word of God. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. That doesn’t mean I don’t understand much of it to be allegory and metaphor, and that causes me no confusion, though weak girlie men like Graychin try as they must to play the game of gotcha. I’ve debated with far more qualified opponents and actually consider Graychin and his toadies more of a mosquito than an impediment.

    I’m not condemning you – I’m warning you; don’t get caught up in the issues of division that are placed in your path to deceive. That sounds like hocus pocus and hooey to most on this board. It is not, I assure you. There is far more to this world and its purpose than most recognize. That recognition is available to every man, but undoubtedly few choose to discover it.

    There are many fools (like Graychin) whom feel they know better – grounded in their own self assurances which is both arrogant and meaningless. They’ve been with us two millennium and will be with us until the end of the age – skeptics and nihilists; lovers of self.

  127. Tex, I agree with the “all scripture…” from the letter of Paul’s to Timothy, knowing full well that was written BEFORE the Bible was put together and would have to include the Book of Jasher and Jubilees as well as others mentined in the OT. The accounts of the gospels have discrepencies, ie., how many angels and women discovered the empty tomb, where BOTH could not be true. As far as the law and the comandments are concerned, they are summed up into two now. If you adhere to those two, you are on the right path. All else will fall in line. Any that do not are already condemned. I personally hold higher value in the red letters, without discarding the importance of the rest. But that is me.

  128. The accounts of the gospels have discrepencies, ie., how many angels and women discovered the empty tomb, where BOTH could not be true.

    I never saw the discrepancy. If memory serves two of the gospels speak of the women of the Galilee, two Marys if you will – Mary Magdalene and Mother Mary. The other speaks of Mary, and I always assumed that was the Mother Mary. I can’t remember what Mark mentions and would have to look it up.

    That one fails to mention both women doesn’t make it incorrect. In fact, in my opinion, it adds credence to the truth that these were not copied testimonials but witnesses – the point being that in those days, it would have been rare for women to have been both the brave and the heroes, while the disciples cowered in hiding.

  129. I would agree the Red lettering does lend a special significance.

    Except that the O.T. speaks of Christ in many names and is not “RED Lettered”. :smile:

    To me, it is all important and I don’t discriminate in that I believe Peter and Paul spoke for Jesus, through Jesus.

    They were simply earthly intermediaries to God’s word.

  130. Racist House democrats are now screaming “Fuck the President!” in a caucus meeting.

    Will there be any congressional resolutions against that person, or are democrats going to show more hypocrisy?

    Other chants heard from the meeting were “Just say no!”

    Like I said…tell us again who is the party of no. Is it the party that hasn’t had any power in the last 2 years or the one that is now chanting “just say no” inside of Congress?

    At this point it would take Sarah Palin on the GOP ticket to blow it in 2012.

  131. I see no one has attacked me regarding my belief that our military, security, and intelligence apparatus is the biggest drainer of our revenues. It is always the “white elephant” in the room. No one even batts an eye, for fear of sounding unAmerican or getting on a list. That is true hypocrisy, which seems to be the keyword bandied about on this blog.

    I remember before that fateful day in September nine years ago when Rumsfeld announced the Pentagon could not accout for OVER 2 TRILLION dollars it had received. Of course in the attack on the Pentagon two days later, ALL that paper trail was destroyed, and it hasn’t been brought up since. This is a nation of coincidences. It was later shown the amount the Pentagon couldn’t account for was closer to 3.4 trillion dollars. That’s an awful lot of education or health care.

  132. I’m too lazy to look up the comment or attribute it to the right person but at least one of you took issue with my assertion that Obama follows the politics of reconciliation (no reference to the Congressional procedure was intended). You use the example of HCR being “jammed down our throats” as your evidence of my error.

    When are you folks going to realize that the clusterf*ck that got passed was the result of compromise? What the left wanted was single payer. It didn’t happen. Short of that they wanted a public option. It didn’t happen. What did get passed made no great gains at altering the current insurance landscape. Insurance companies are already finding ways around some of the regulations. Obama did not fight this to the death … far from it.

    I don’t think you guys would know a true liberal if you tripped over one. I think it was GOP campaign strategist Mike Murphy the other day who said “Obama campaigned from the middle but has governed from the left.” What are you guys smoking? He campaigned from the left and has governed from the middle. Why else do you think he is facing a sh*tstorm of criticism right now from his “base”?

  133. Tigre, chalking up Obama’s win over Clinton as race based is preposterous and one of your statements stands out as particularly absurd. You stated that Obama was the only one who kept bringing up his race. I can only guess that your attention was so invested in the GOP primary at the time that you just weren’t taking good notes on the Dem side.

    Obama went to great pains to avoid race as an issue. Were it not for that asshat Reverend Wright, the so called “race speech” would never have happened.

    You also discount what a lousy campaign Hillary ran. Just on faux pas alone she sunk herself. “I think he is a Christian. That’s what he says.” or comments suggesting he might get killed like RFK did. Oh she was a piece of work. Go back and read my articles from 2008. I covered her BS quite thoroughly.

    And there were an entire league of folks (can you spell PUMA) who felt getting a woman POTUS trumped getting a black one. Pro-Hillary sentiment kept things dicey right up until the convention. So much for your theory of the anointed black man.

    Seriously, read “Game Change” by Heileman and Halperin. It’s a damn entertaining read and you’ll learn something (including just how dangerous a candidate Ms. Palin was).

    P.S. I am curious about something and I ask this with no malice intended …. how do the black folks in your family react when you suggest that Obama only got nominated because he was black?

  134. When are you going to realize you’re so far out of bounds to the left of the left field line, you’re not even in the stadium anymore?

    When are you folks going to realize that the clusterf*ck that got passed was the result of compromise?

    Compromise was not how the American public saw it, as 63 seats gained in the House and 682 state seats will attest – a historic rout. When Sen. Brown was elected to take Kennedy’s seat, it was to kill health care as that was his primary message. Your stooges for leadership rammed it through anyway – even celebrated it. Remember the Bam Bam Gavel?

    That was anything but reconciliation. It’s at moments like this I realize just how far Left guys like you and Graychin are – whatever the opposed 180 degree of militia is, that is where you two stand for your side. Completely baffled because you have no objectivity.

  135. I voted for Obama because I believed he spoke from the heart and his words resonated with me. It wouldn’t have mattered to me if he was black or white, or even female. Hillary, I never trusted. I still like the man, but he has been less than effectual. I know he is fighting an uphill battle, but I think he has compromised too much on what he outlined before being elected.

    I know things are different once you are sworn in. I am sure he thinks diplomacy is the best way to govern, but those that elected him wanted more of an authoritarian. I don’t know what motivates a man like him to want to be president. I have watched his hair turn grey awfully fast. No job is worth that stress, if you ask me. No matter what you do, most people are going to find something to gripe about.

  136. Huck, from a psychology perspective, this ain’t hard to understand. The country told Pelosi etal, we don’t love you. Now they think the Prez is saying “I don’t love you”. It’s a feeling of betrayal plain and simple and yes there is gonna be some cussin’ going on.

  137. Poolman, no argument from me whatsoever that we are way overextended military-wise. It’s one of Ron Paul’s talking points that I absolutely love.

    Bring all those boys home from Germany, Japan and every other country that we are not at war with. That would save billions right there.

  138. Any one ever give any thought to the uproar that would occur in this country if any other nation placed troops here? Yet we have the arrogance to “occupy” nation after nation. Incredible.

  139. The health care bill was written by the insurance and pharma lawyers. They generally write all our bills. I’m with Rutherford on the single-payer or at MINIMUM a public option. The amount of dollars and pressure applied to the public and legislators to avoid those two possibilities should have an impact on sane intellects everywhere. It points entirely to who actually controls this nation, and it isn’t you or me.

  140. “Tigre, chalking up Obama’s win over Clinton as race based is preposterous…”

    I did that, not Tiger. And it is no more preposterous than your claim that the election of Obama was simply to wash away 8 years of Bush stink. The fact that there were other candidates that could have done the same thing proves that that was not the only reason.

    “I can only guess that your attention was so invested in the GOP primary at the time that you just weren’t taking good notes on the Dem side.”

    Talk is cheap. Show some examples of candidates running against Obama bringing up his race at the time they were running against him.

    There sure as hell wasn’t anyone comparing him to the presidents on our money. But that didn’t stop him from bringing it up, did it? That doesn’t sound like avoiding an issue, to me. It is exploiting an issue. Obama wanted to use his race to show what a victim he was going to be.

    I think you’re the one who was too invested in the “historic opportunity” of 2008 that even you have made mention of on multiple occasions.

    “When are you folks going to realize that the clusterf*ck that got passed was the result of compromise?”

    No. The compromise is coming now. At least for the 220 companies that have so far received waivers from this mandate that the entire country needed but wont see the supposed benefits of for 4 more years.

    “Huck, from a psychology perspective, this ain’t hard to understand. The country told Pelosi etal, we don’t love you. Now they think the Prez is saying “I don’t love you”. It’s a feeling of betrayal plain and simple and yes there is gonna be some cussin’ going on.”

    Oh, so now suddenly congressional democrats in their closed-door meetings are concerned about the voice of the nation? Bullshit. This is a tantrum, pure and simple. And you know as well as I do that if “Fuck the President” was heard being shouted from a GOP meeting of congressmen heads would be rolling in congress.

  141. “Any one ever give any thought to the uproar that would occur in this country if any other nation placed troops here? Yet we have the arrogance to “occupy” nation after nation. Incredible.”

    OK, let’s get 1 thing straight, Osama….

    It isn’t occupation when countries ask you to come and/or ask you to stay. Go ahead and name off the list of governments that have asked us to leave their country that we still “occupy.”

  142. I never saw the discrepancy.

    Tex, Mark chapter 16 and Luke chapter 24. Both cover the amazing miracle of my Lord’s resurrection. Very different, so both cannot be true. That is just one example where I have a problem with the claim of “inerrant”. There is also the problem with dates in the OT that do not match Sumerian history, though the same characters are described. Then there’s the more than 15 verses included in the KJ version that cannot be found in the bulk of recovered texts, mostly found in the dead sea scrolls. Of course when Constantine destroyed libraries of books he claimed were not valid by burning them in the fourth century, he was supposedly operating on whose authority? I don’t trust mankind. Their record isn’t all that good.

  143. No, the bill was not written by pharma or the health insurance industry. Where do you get this crap from? They were fighting it, sort of. Obamacare is a conglomeration of many special intrest organizational inputs, thrust together with little thought to what the left hand was doing in refference to the right hand. That’s why certain politians were familiar with parts (their particular interest) and not others.

    And R, we do have foreign troops here. We have lots of foreign troops here going to school, stationed at out bases and working along side our forces. But consider this: why are the European forces in the current state of disarray that they are in? Because the can and do rely on us to fill the void of their capabilities. We can’t do their job unles we’re there to do it, and they know this WHICH IS WHY they invite us to come.

    Please define occupy for the good of the class. Thanks…

  144. Go ahead and name off the list of governments that have asked us to leave their country that we still “occupy.”

    You want a list that does not include puppet regimes, or those like South Korea that do? Does Cuba/Guantanamo count, or should we consider the beginning of the shut down constituting a done deal?

  145. “Tigre. . . you stated that Obama was the only one who kept bringing up his race. I can only guess that your attention was so invested in the GOP primary at the time that you just weren’t taking good notes on the Dem side.”

    Are you drunk posting (again)? I didn’t say that.

    I wish you had read and considered what I actually said/asked as well as what was meant.

    Direct your pretend outrage elsewhere.

    Gotta go. More later.

  146. the bill was not written by pharma or the health insurance industry. Where do you get this crap from?

    “I don’t think you want me to waste my time to read every page of the health care bill. You know why? It’s statutory language,” Baucus said. “We hire experts.”

    Those “experts” are from the insurance and pharma industry. That is the way things are done at the sausage factory nowadays, doncha know.

  147. NEW DELHI (AP) – India’s foreign minister said Thursday it was unacceptable that the country’s ambassador to the United States was patted down by a security agent at a Mississippi airport, and said he would complain to Washington.

    The ambassador, Meera Shankar, was returning from giving a speech at Mississippi State University last week when she was pulled out of line at the airport and given a pat down by a female Transportation Security Administration agent.

    The Clarion-Ledger newspaper of Jackson, Mississippi, quoted witnesses as saying Shankar, who was wearing a sari, was told she was singled out for additional screening because of her dress.

    Foreign Minister S.M. Krishna said this was the second time the ambassador had been singled out for a pat down in the past three months.

    “Let me be very frank that this is unacceptable to India,” he said. “We are going to take it up with the government of United States, and I hope that things could be resolved so that such unpleasant incidents do not recur.”

    A TSA spokesman said diplomats were not exempt from the searches, and that bulky clothing could prompt a pat down.

    Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton told reporters Thursday that the State Department is looking into the matter and is trying to determine what can be done to prevent such incidents in the future.

    She expressed concern but did not apologize for the incident and said it was not raised when she met with the Indian ambassador and other Indian officials on Tuesday.

  148. Who pays them? That usually determines whose side they are on. That is the big complaint today with university grants for rsearch. The sponsors want results that benefit them. Very few studies and research done in America today is impartial.

  149. DADT fails.
    Dems block the compromise.
    DREAM Act pulled.

    This isn’t boding well for you and the Dems. You’re about to cut off your nose to spite your face.

  150. Tex, Mark chapter 16 and Luke chapter 24. Both cover the amazing miracle of my Lord’s resurrection. Very different, so both cannot be true.

    I don’t see how you can surmise this – the premise is the same.

    First, Luke and Mark would have been relying only on eyewitnesses and may have had access to different eyewitnesses when they wrote their accounts. This would accord with the emphasis in early Christian morality on bearing true witness.

    Second, Luke reports that many people had undertaken to compile accounts, which implies some controversy and perhaps a strong interest in getting the facts right, lending to truth – not fiction.

  151. You know what amuses me most concerning discussions of Obama? Their memory lapse and lame excuses.

    Like Obama has compromised too much and the Republican party is the party of NO.

    Libs, for the last time, set this to memory and blame only yourselves if you don’t like the way things turned out for you. You’re out of excuses and even the lies don’t fly anymore.

    From late January 2009 to early October 2009, the Dimocrats had a great majority of the House, a super majority of the Senate, a Liberal Dimocrat for President, and the Republicans were powerless to stop any vote.

    You misread the message of 2008. America shot itself in it’s collective foot and it took about 30 days to begin to have real buyer’s remorse. This was never a center Left country and never will be. 2008 was a protest vote against the disgust of an unpopular war, a misplaced blame for the dire straights of the economy, and outrageous spending. When Lehman Brothers went belly up, the 2008 election was over – until then, it was a very close race, even with the unpopularity of George Bush. 2008 was not a celebration of Liberalism and you hopefully recognize that my now.

    If not, I’m rooting for you to keep trying and watch yourselves get buried two years from now.

    That would be a good thing.

  152. OH MY!

    http://biggovernment.com/publius/2010/12/09/profanity-anger-spill-over-in-democratic-caucus-meeting/

    Rutherford, I bet you didn’t think two years ago that it would end this way. Are you now ready to admit much of the Progressive Party is vulgar, vapid, crude, completely unhinged, and stupid?

    And you wonder why reasonable find the party of the left-wing of the Dimocratic party not only dangerously inept, but also clinically insane?

    Graychin must be seething by now. :eek:


  153. RIP

    Two Party Politics and Capitalism.

    Two humanist experiments that didn’t work. :roll:

    Hecho en USA, Inc.
    12/8/2010

  154. I don’t see how you can surmise this – the premise is the same.

    I don’t deny the same premise, however I understood that those that feel the Bible is the inerrant Word of God believe that it is without error. Similar to the way we are to judge prophets. It better be exact. No fudge factor there. A sovereign God wouldn’t provide sloppy accounting, imho. And since there were so many gospel accounts, why would these four be the only “God-breathed” versions? Who signs off on that? Just curious….

    Now back to your regularly scheduled programming….

  155. Ruhterford, when you sober up, I’d like to know what your question is to ME. I’ve re-read 164 and there’s a total disconnect from what ever point you are trying to establish and what I said here and in the past.

    A couple points of clarification.

    1.

  156. WTF? The page keeps reloading while I type. Let me try again:

    1 I read Game Change. We’ve already discussed that.

    2. My point is not that Hillary was a decent candidate

    3. My point is that Obama was not and the majority of the left didn’t care

    4. Youvoted for an absolute unknown with no meaningful experience

    5. denying that the race was part of the image that endeared theleft is absurd — in fact you’ve repeatedly said how we just don’t seem to get how important it is

    6. you’ve alluded to some perceived racism based on nothing other than your own incorrect belief that you are morally suoperior — actually you supported G-chin’s false accustaion that I am racist and meant something sinsiter when I referred to the black community — a term used by Obama himself

    7. If Obama’s race was not determinative of his nomination, I don’t get where this shit comes from and I call BS. Don’t confuse that with my saying it was the only factor — I said it was the determinative factor. Obviously you don’t support Alan Keyes, Clarence Thomas or any other conservative black whom the left considers “not really black.”

    8. With his lack of any experience or meaningful accomplishment as a leader, there’s no way he’d have gotten the nomination if he were white — of that I’m sure. You can’t tell me there was something to suggest he was a man of substance or worthy of the sichophantic praise with what was known of him

    9. You got exactly what you voted for. A divisive pussy, completely lacking in principle or substance. Nothing should have instilled the belief that he was an actual leader. That was projected on to him like talent is projected onto the boy bands — until the cool guys move on and the herd follows.

    10. I’m sincere in my desire to understand the left’s truly strange reaction to what has happened here. You’re welcomed to disagree but I plead with you to be intellectually honest in your assesment. based on what you said, I won’t hold my breath. There’s more going on than the dissapointment with the proposed tax increase and supposed pandering. Much more.

    R, please consider my actual point before asking what my family thinks of Obama. I’ve already told you in response to your post about the statistical support for Obama from the black community that you claimed proved its lack of objectivity. Remember, I was shouted down by you and that dickhead G-chin when I agreed with you, not realizing of course that the observation was one only you were allowed to make without being labeled a racist or bigot.

    Now point me to anything that demonstrates that Obama’s celebrity image was born of substance and accomplishment but not race. Anything at all. Then refute my actual point, not your distorted version of it.

  157. A sovereign God wouldn’t provide sloppy accounting,

    Then the only thing I can conclude about you is that you find the Bible in error and Paul a liar in Timothy. Because that is exactly what you are saying…

    And that is fine and you should believe as you must, but don’t call yourself a Christian.if you going to call the Bible a book of contradictions. Because if you can’t trust all of it, you can’t trust any of it.

    I should note that I find you a “book” of contradictions.

  158. “You want a list that does not include puppet regimes…”

    By “puppet regimes” do you mean democratically elected governments?

    But yeah, go for it. Let’s see your list of countries that we currently “occupy” that have asked us to leave.

    I’m guessing you don’t have any to name, or you’d have done it already.

  159. Then the only thing I can conclude about you is that you find the Bible in error and Paul a liar in Timothy. Because that is exactly what you are saying…

    WTF? Paul wrote that BEFORE the Bible was put together. All the brain connections aren’t happening between your head handles there, cowboy. Better layoff the skoal and get some air. :roll:

  160. By “puppet regimes” do you mean democratically elected governments?

    Yeah, democratically elected, just like Afghanistan, Iran, and Iraq. I see illusion works for reality with you. South Korea’s president is a Japanese businessman. They hate the Japanese. I’m sure it was democratic. :roll:

    Afghanistan is the latest. Karzai, if you consider him the head of the government, asked us to leave. We told him no. We hadn’t achieved our objective. You know the one that keeps changing when the old one turns up bogus. U.S. attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq only increased the threat of al-Qaeda.

  161. Poolman,

    You’re thinking is about as twisted as any I’ve read.

    WTF? Paul wrote that BEFORE the Bible was put together. All the brain connections aren’t happening between your head handles there, cowboy. Better layoff the skoal and get some air.

    It doesn’t matter when it was written. It matters that somehow, some way, you would have the unmitigated gall to call yourself a Christian and not recognize the sovereignty of an Almighty God directing the hand of man in both pen and collection.

    It’s as if man took a stab at a nice story, a book of fables and myths and with their own blend of apostolic authority placed what they wanted to be read. That is the way Rutherford believes – not a practicing believer.

    If that is your argument, then you should discount the entire New Testament and convert to Judaism, because the only thing available at the time was the Old Testament, as Pauls letters the very first of the New Testament.

    You really minimize the hand and authority of God Poolman to call yourself a believer. You read much more like a Deist or Pantheist.

    Ironic that you would call me confused, yet not recognize the weakness of your arguments, still calling yourself Christian.

  162. When Jesus, my God, walked the earth, he carried no book. His testimony came from His heart. His teaching was simple and he spoke no lies. He came to show mankind how to treat each other. He was kind and loving to all He met and knew the thoughts in their minds and condition of their hearts. He was full of compassion. The Spirit was with Him and together They performed many miracles. It was radical. God was with men! In their homes, in the courts and shops. In the temple. Evil ran from Him, begging for mercy.

    The ONLY ones that pissed him off were the church folk (primarily the elders) and the capitalists. Those he warned about where their evil ways would take them. He threatened their lifestyle. Eventually the church folk had enough of Him and had Him executed. He didn’t resist. He suffered and died. He showed back up 3 days later. :shock: Shock and Awe!

    Believers are His temple now on earth. He sends the Spirit to whom He chooses. He that is in me is greater than he that is in the world. He set the example. He left the message to follow Him and do what He did. My part is to follow Him and to do His work. Wherever I go, I advance His kingdom, pushing back at the darkness. Until He returns, that’s my assignment. This world is controlled by evil, and has been since the fall. Until all His enemies are underfoot, time is still ticking away. Darkness cannot exist in the Light. :grin: So call me what you will.

    I found this message in the scripture. The scripture happened to be in the Bible. Most versions of today’s Bible contains 66 books compiled by men. Many other books exist(ed) that didn’t make the final cut as determined by men who are said to have operated under the influence of the Spirit to judge those books to be included. Many centuries of men have had control over these written works. Some versions have added and subtracted verses when compared with other found copies.

    Today, some are even rewriting a more conservative version. They stated that they did not care to go to the original text for interpretation, but they found too many liberal biases in the scriptures and so they decided to fix that. They are leading themselves to their own destruction, per the same scriptures.

    And that’s enough churchiness for a lifetime for some. :wink:

  163. Karzai has not asked us to leave Afghanistan. “Scale down” is not “please leave.”

    We aren’t occupying Iran.

    Iraq has hinted that we should stay a while longer.

    With the recent events do you really think S. Korea wants us to go anywhere?

    Any others? Where’s the big list of countries we occupy? Rutherford, you brought it up, how about you jump in here with your list.

  164. And don’t get me wrong. I have a bit of an isolationist streak and would have no problems if we got rid of a lot of our bases all over the world.

    But this BS that we are occupying any country is exactly that—BS. It’s the same BS that bin Laden brainwashes Islamists with. No surprise that it also appeals to other weak-minded people.

  165. Jesus walked the earth 2,000 years ago – the message was left on the hearts of men by the Words from His mouth. I’m not sure how you would want that passed without a written translation. Somebody has spoon fed you a crock, and since their message fits with your politics, I would venture a very good guess it’s not the message, but your political persuasion that drives your supposed message of conviction.

    These two entire paragraphs are nothing but liberal theological lies and propaganda:

    Many other books exist(ed) that didn’t make the final cut as determined by men who are said to have operated under the influence of the Spirit to judge those books to be included. Many centuries of men have had control over these written works. Some versions have added and subtracted verses when compared with other found copies.

    Are you not aware that with the 1st century father’s own writings, we could recreate 97% of the entire New Testament practiced by 1st century Christians? There is no documented work in history so supported, because there are over 6,000 manuscripts, in three different languages, from a multitude of locations around the world that say the exact same thing when translated. New translations (worth their salt) are produced from the original manuscripts – not redone from one edition to the next.

    Today, some are even rewriting a more conservative version. They stated that they did not care to go to the original text for interpretation, but they found too many liberal biases in the scriptures and so they decided to fix that. They are leading themselves to their own destruction, per the same scriptures.

    There are “no Conservative” Bibles being printed and I dare for you to provide me one, as they would quickly be dismissed, being the Bible already, far and away, the most printed manuscript of any generation – the first book in fact that was mass produced by a mechanism designed to specifically print the Bible for all of men.

    Contrary to your arguments, the “progressive” party of which you play no small part in carrying out its sacrilege, is actively trying to feminize the Bible, removing those parts of Paul that talk of men and women’s proper roles, and referring to God as “She” in 3rd person.

    Finally, anybody dumb enough to compare thieves on the steps of God’s own temple with capitalism indicates to me his real problem with capitalism is that he failed of his own accord, and is looking for anything or anyone to blame. Step up and recognize that pools are a luxury items for ordinary people.

    I’m sorry that the economy took the pool business down with it, but many are waking up to the fact a pool is the absolute worst possible investment for a home that one can make, and in fact in many cases, will detract from the value of a home due to maintenance and insurance requirements. When homes begin to lose value and new construction slows, it follows that the first item dropped from the wish list will be the unnecessary ones. Any Realtor can tell you as much.

    You can thank the bust in the overinflated, woefully indebted housing market for your troubles – not the system that made your livelihood possible in the first place.

    Welcome to the world of supply and demand.

  166. (1) Junk – I just told you that we have 6,000 manuscripts from 1st century fathers of the faith which could construct 97% of the N.T. without the N.T. There is no “real” argument about what constitutes the New Testament. Believe as you must – add the Book of Mormon to your list if need be. Won’ t matter to me.

    (2) Meaningless…I like my NASB if that troubles you, though. It goes into some detail which verses were added to the manuscript and when. Still doesn’ t change the message.

    (3) I stand corrected – sounds like a silly argument considering we already have the KJV and its reconstruction NASB and equally dumb as the “gender neutral” liberal theology.

  167. I usually read several translations. My wife loves her amplified. My main stay is the NIV. I have read that version the most. Online, I do the Bible in a year reading plan and I generally start in the New Living Translation. King James is just too difficult to understand, although that is the “mainstay” of many sects, and some claim it is the ONLY real version. It wasn’t written for the common folk of the time. A lot of that KJ in imbedded in my brain. Thee and Thou goest kind of lingo. :grin:

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