A Little Religion in the Wrong Hands

August 31, 2010 at 5:45 pm 183 comments

I stumbled across this silly video today and it reminded me of the religious debates I’ve been in over the past few weeks regarding Muslim radicals. Here we have a pure ass exercising his right to free speech and suggesting, backed up by his Christian Bible, that women victims of domestic violence should not divorce their husbands. The dialog, if you want to call it that, then devolves into a discussion of cleavage, as prohibited by the Bible.

Clearly, this dude’s twisting of scripture is not comparable to that of a Muslim who thinks he should fly a plane into a building but it clearly supports my assertion that every religion is ripe for misuse by its nuttier followers. That nuttiness can range from harmless to homicidal.

Respectfully,
Rutherford

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Tired of Watching Black and White TV Two Epiphanies

183 Comments Add your own

  • 1. Tex Taylor  |  August 31, 2010 at 6:55 pm

    I’m sure this was meant as the typical “Rutherford” pot shot at Christianity, but nonetheless your point is noted. And this is no isolated incident – there’s thousands of Christian charlatans, from the pedophile priests, to the homosexual pastors preaching about the evil of homosexuality.

    It does make me want to go grab a few You Tube Videos about those black “theologians” in Times Square who try to incite riots in the name of “their” religion. But I’ll refrain. :smile:

    My other point would be who was dumber? The ignorant mob, or the ignorant poseur with Bible? Both were equally moronic in my book. Dumb man, then pathetic, stupid, and immature mob.

    That nuttiness can range from harmless to homicidal.

    You are right about the power of religion – it is used for both great good and horrid evil. But doesn’t both great evil and great beauty also apply to atheists, agnostics and other assorted secularists? It’s more than that Rutherford – and that was the message of Christ and the O.T..

    It should be noted that the Bible does not speak of “religion” but “relationship.” In fact, to the best of my knowledge, the word “religion” is also used once in the Bible in a positive context, and then the word religion is prefaced with “pure.”

    And why are you ‘tweeting’ with a sociopath like Keith Olbermann? :lol: I mean, doesn’t Keith have his own perverted form of religion R?

    But Rutherford – can you give me multiple incidents, other than a few loons who’ve taken justice in their own hands and killed some butchers, where Christianity has proven homicidal in your lifetime?

  • 2. Tex Taylor  |  August 31, 2010 at 6:58 pm

    Scratch my last paragraph from above. I started to include that, then thought better. Some Huckster like Huck I’m sure could find something, somewhere, sometime, somehow, googling some way if he “searched” long enough.

  • 3. Dan Trabue  |  August 31, 2010 at 8:20 pm

    Actually, I expect that if you expand the search beyond the US, you could quite easily find many many killings by Christians.

    Here in the US, we have, by and large, moved beyond killing those we disagree with. Muslim, Christian, atheist, whatever, we have learned a little multiculturalism (I know that is a bad word for some here, but…) and we just don’t do that. Thank God! (with apologies to those who object to such outbursts.)

  • 4. an800lbgorilla  |  August 31, 2010 at 8:31 pm

    R, if you’re going to grab videos on cleavage, then get something with a little bit more action and fewer words. ;)

  • 5. Rutherford  |  August 31, 2010 at 8:34 pm

    Dan I think you’ve struck upon why the current wave of anti-Muslim paranoia has me so annoyed. We are for the most part a peaceful nation with an incredible mix of belief systems. The idea that any one belief system might over power us, seems to me the height of melodrama. I may ask this over at BiW’s: when in modern history has a Christian nation been conquered and forcibly turned Muslim?

  • 6. Rutherford  |  August 31, 2010 at 8:36 pm

    G, I hear ya but I leave the porn to Dick. I wouldn’t want to move in on his territory. :-D

  • 7. Tex Taylor  |  August 31, 2010 at 8:36 pm

    I’m sure Dan that you could. I’m sure you consider many of our soldiers in the military who claim the faith amongst them. :neutral:

  • 8. Tex Taylor  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:04 pm

    One thing Rutherford. Jesus was right about “EVERYTHING.”

    All of us are corrupted in one way or another. Even me. :smile:

    I’ll will give you this much. It’s incredibly difficult to overcome the cliched chants from the Left of ignorant Christians when men like this do a disservice to what it means to know Christ.

    He’s an embarrassment to the cause and perverts scripture. I heard a great sermon on marriage and divorce once from the black pastor I tried to turn you on too…and Voddie would adamantly disagree with this disgrace.

    God would condemn an abusive husband. It’s one of the most egregious of sins.

  • 9. an800lbgorilla  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:23 pm

    In modern history? Not yet, but Europe is on its way through Political Correctness.

  • 10. Dan Trabue  |  August 31, 2010 at 9:46 pm

    Actually, Tex, I was thinking of some of the many killings in Africa, like in conflicts between Christians and Muslims in Nigeria…

    Christian Science Monitor

    Or perhaps the Christian legislator in Uganda who wants to criminalize being gay and put all gay folk to death…

    NPR

    Or Christians killing witches in Nigeria…

    CNN

    Unfortunately, this stuff happens much too often – and whether it’s by Muslims or Christians, it’s wrong. Am I suggesting it’s the NORM for Christians to kill people, especially to “kill people for Christ”? No, of course it isn’t.

    But neither is it the norm for Muslims to kill people.

    But when either group does (and unfortunately, it seems to be a specially troubling problem for too many Muslims today, even though it’s a small minority), they are wrong to do so.

    Can we agree on that?

  • 11. Tex Taylor  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:32 pm

    But when either group does (and unfortunately, it seems to be a specially troubling problem for too many Muslims today, even though it’s a small minority), they are wrong to do so.

    Can we agree on that?

    Yes, we can agree on that with one proviso. I think you clearly and purposely attempt to minimize the number of Muslims that operate under the guidelines of submission by conquest. I don’t think it’s uncommon – I believe it is very common and I can list dozens of countries that will attest to that fact.

    And I wish you would admit as a professed Christian that Islam is simply wrong in their assessment of the nature of man, and the need for redemption provided only by the sacrifice of Christ, and that Mohammad was a false and wicked prophet.

    When you can do these things, then I will take you seriously as a brother in Christ. Until then, I find you a mealy-mouthed fence straddler who says the right things, but comes to all the wrong conclusions.

  • 12. Dan Trabue  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:54 pm

    With apologies to Gorilla, I’m merely answering a question posed to me:

    What is the Muslim assessment of the nature of humanity? I’ve read some on Islam, but I don’t know that I’m well-read enough to have an opinion on their assessment of humanity.

    It is my understanding that they believe in a salvation by works (do enough good deeds and you get to heaven). I disagree with that tack and believe in the Christian message of salvation by grace, provided by God through faith in Jesus.

    As I have stated before (you know, when I was preaching too much, according to some).

    As to your hunch that I minimize the number of Muslims that want to get us to submit by conquest, I don’t see how I can do that, since I don’t know the number. Do you?

    Yes, many Islamic totalitarian gov’t’s with despotic leaders ARE okay with violence. I don’t know that we can assess that the population agrees with that approach, though.

    How many Muslims in the US do you expect want to have violent conquest to convert folk? 50%? 90%? 10%? Or, is it the case that you don’t know (as I don’t know) the answer to that question?

    “I don’t know” is an acceptable answer when you don’t know, that’s always been my opinion.

  • 13. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  August 31, 2010 at 10:59 pm

    I may ask this over at BiW’s: when in modern history has a Christian nation been conquered and forcibly turned Muslim?

    You might want to take a close look at what is happening to Europe, with extra emphasis on the Netherlands and France.

  • 14. Tex Taylor  |  August 31, 2010 at 11:17 pm

    Dan,

    Your last comment is exactly why I call you mealy-mouthed and/or woefully confused. Your relativism, or equivalence, or whatever term you like to use is always to play dumb, somehow believing you sound both fair and righteous by using “I don’t know.” It’s like somehow you don’t understand the word discernment.

    You have demonstrated to me you can’t even clearly define what is right and what is wrong, under the guise of “I don’t know” or the “Bible doesn’t say…”. I know this much – if true and you’re going to call yourself Christian, you need to ask the Holy Spirit why you and you alone have been cheated out of the gift of discernment of right and wrong as promised.

    Let’s turn the example around. According to the latest statistics I’ve seen, there are approximately 2B Christians in the world. And just for grins, let’s say 1B of the Christians are of the age to commit an atrocity and half of them are men. So we are down to 500MM potential misfits. Now let’s say that only 2% of these misfit Christians are (1) men, (2) of the right age, (3) willing to pervert the scripture in the name of Christian religion to commit mass murder.

    Now, can you point me to the number of recent and recorded acts of hideous violence carried out by 10MM raging loons willing to (1) fly planes into buildings, (2) commit suicide bombings, (3) commit mass murder on an unimaginable scale, (4) would gladly release a nuclear bomb in a large city given the chance, (5) if available would commit entire nations to biological plague all in the name of Jesus? Can you do that with any Jew that you’re aware? And all the while doing so, these “Christians” believe they are on their way to the highest level of salvation?

    Because if you say you can, then I call you a liar. In fact, it is such a rare occurrence in the Western World, the act itself in the name of Christianity which so delights the secular MSM, that the act in the name of religion alone makes it news worthy. Whether it is George Tiller being murdered, or a bomb in a dumpster at the Olympics, or abortion clinic being blown up, you can rest assured the word “Christian” will be magnified and attached.

    Because I can easily do exactly that with respect to Islam across a spectrum of at least 60 countries and counting. I’ve provided links listed the atrocities at least three times with you, and not once have you chosen to comment. Your silence speaks volumes.

  • 15. Dan Trabue  |  August 31, 2010 at 11:33 pm

    One thing at a time, please. You said…

    if true and you’re going to call yourself Christian, you need to ask the Holy Spirit why you and you alone have been cheated out of the gift of discernment of right and wrong as promised.

    What “gift of discernment” are you speaking of? “Discernment” does not appear in the NT in the KJV, NIV or NASB translations of the Bible.

    1 Corinthians 12 is one place the Bible speaks of gifts, saying that there are many gifts, but not everyone has them all. “Discernment” is not listed as a gift.

    So, I am wondering: What promise are you speaking of?

    In context, it sounds like you are suggesting that you think Christians have some special gift of knowing all right and wrong, with no error, and that we have the ability to “know” what others are thinking, is that what you think? Or perhaps you could elaborate what exactly you are suggesting by this “gift” you think I lack, as it does not appear to be in the Bible, so far as I can tell.

    Sorry Mr Gorilla, I’m just answering questions raised by your friend, Mr Tex. No preaching, just clarifications.

  • 16. Hucking Fypocrites  |  August 31, 2010 at 11:33 pm

    “Scratch my last paragraph from above. I started to include that, then thought better. Some Huckster like Huck I’m sure could find something, somewhere, sometime, somehow, googling some way if he “searched” long enough”

    It’s called “research.”

    But then I don’t expect a worthless dropout to understand the concept.

    In a case such as that, it’s better to just spout off any bullshit he can think of and hope nobody in the room is smart enough to call him on it.

  • 17. Dan Trabue  |  August 31, 2010 at 11:44 pm

    Tex…

    Your relativism, or equivalence, or whatever term you like to use is always to play dumb, somehow believing you sound both fair and righteous by using “I don’t know.”

    But I DON’T know everything. Neither do you. I DON’T know the number of Muslims who’d like to see a violent conquest, neither do you. I DON’T know what the Muslim assessment is of the nature of humanity. Do you? What is your source? “Discernment?”

    As I already stated, I find no shame in saying, “I don’t know” when I don’t know something. Perhaps you are smarter than I am and you DO know the answers to the questions above. If so, please educate me (but please give a source for your knowledge, even if it’s only “discernment.”)

    Why do you think saying “I don’t know” when I don’t know the answer is evidence of moral relativism or moral equivalency? I’m not sure that makes any sense, as I’m not saying anything is morally relative or equivalent…

    Tex…

    You have demonstrated to me you can’t even clearly define what is right and what is wrong

    I’m sorry you feel that way, I don’t believe I’ve said anything that could make one think this, but you do, so there you go. What would you like for me to clearly define right and wrong that I haven’t? Or do you merely mean that I don’t agree with your assessment (“discernment,” if you will) of what is right and wrong?

    For instance, I clearly think that bearing false witness is wrong.
    I clearly think slander is wrong. I clearly think stating things as factual that you can’t possibly know is wrong. I think bombing innocent people is wrong.

    I think being reasonable is right. I think NOT judging the whole on the actions of the few is right. I think overcoming evil with good is right.

    Where in all of that am I mistaking right and wrong?

    Although, this is really off topic and, as always, I’d suggest a personal conversation would be more appropriate to discuss a fella’s faults and stupidity. That’s something else I think is right.

  • 18. Hucking Fypocrites  |  August 31, 2010 at 11:53 pm

    If Tex didn’t discuss faults he wouldn’t have anything to talk about.

    That’s because he lacks facts, and the skills to find them.

    He’s a joke who thinks if he yells loud enough people will be scared out of the dicussion.

  • 19. Tex Taylor  |  September 1, 2010 at 12:00 am

    But then I don’t expect a worthless dropout to understand the concept.

    In a case such as that, it’s better to just spout off any bullshit he can think of and hope nobody in the room is smart enough to call him on it.

    Worthless? Absolutely! And there maybe some in the room smart enough – you ain’t one of them, you uneducated, illiterate, behind the curve lout. Here’s another lesson you need to learn MASTERS. “I” before “E”, except after “C”. :wink: You can’t spell “RECEIVE” to save your miserable existence, and you always spell it wrong.

    Didn’t much like getting your ass lit up on another blog Huck? Well, you seem to be a glutton for punishment like around the dinner table.

    And by the way…

    And if you’re so damn smart and so “researched”, why is it that it took until 40 for you to understand dangers of something like diet, adipose, smoking, LDL cholesterol, and heart attack? Did you think that magic MASTERS? Ah, but that’s not quite as easy as the cut & paste, hey? Got to have a little background for it to make some sense. :wink:

    Well, let me help you out MASTERS – here’s another acronym you need to familiarize yourself with. CVA. :wink:

    Graychin left; you arrived. Life is good!

  • 20. Dan Trabue  |  September 1, 2010 at 12:05 am

    Tex…

    Now, can you point me to the number of recent and recorded acts of hideous violence carried out by 10MM raging loons willing to (1) fly planes into buildings…

    Because if you say you can, then I call you a liar.

    Umm, okay. No. I can’t. I don’t think there are 10 million murderous Christians. I don’t have any hard numbers on that, but I think that’s a safe claim to stake.

    Further, I don’t think there are 10 million murderous Muslims. So, I’m not sure of your point there. No one here is claiming (that I’ve seen) that Christians are by and large murderous.

    I think Rutherford’s point in his post is that SOME FEW Christians lean wacky. Some more wacky than dangerous, some BOTH wacky and dangerous.

    As is true for Muslims.

    I further believe that Rutherford has suggested (and I know I have) that there is a larger problem with extremists identifying as Muslims being dangerous, but that does not mean that extremists identifying as Christians aren’t also out there.

    As evidenced by the news way too often. For both groups.

    So, I’m unsure of what your point is, but if you’d like, we can all agree right here and now that there probably aren’t ten million murderous Christians out there.

    Would you concede the same for Muslims?

  • 21. Tex Taylor  |  September 1, 2010 at 12:10 am

    Sorry Dan. Huck is the resident Jew hater and he and I had a little “discussion” elsewhere today. Everyone needs a little humor these days.

    Now, to answer your question about discernment? Not in the NIV? Well, I found these in the NIV and KJV for starters. Quite the contrary, the Bible says much about discernment. In fact, it’s an absolute necessity.

    Luke 11:9 (NIV) “So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.”

    Mat 16:3 (KJV) “…’It will be foul weather today: for the sky is red and lowering.’ O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?”

    Isa 11:2-3 (NIV) The Spirit of the Lord will rest upon him–the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord–and he will delight in the fear of the Lord. He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes, or decide by what he hears with his ears.

    If you don’t think discernment is a gift bestowed to every individual Dan, then I think you missed this, though obviously not everybody finds it.

    Romans 1:19-20

    Since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

  • 22. Tex Taylor  |  September 1, 2010 at 12:18 am

    So, I’m unsure of what your point is, but if you’d like, we can all agree right here and now that there probably aren’t ten million murderous Christians out there.

    Would you concede the same for Muslims?

    I try to remind myself when I see the news with thousands of Iranians screaming “Death to America.” I always envisioned that as a great campaign slogan for Obama 2012.

    I pulled a “HUCK” and using his profound wisdom of “research”, a concept I did not understand until tonight, found this. :wink: No, I do not agree with your “equivalence” and “equivocation”. I find it completely dishonest…

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/02/what_do_muslim_nations_think_a.html

    I assume you are familiar with the term Dhimmi, Dan?

  • 23. Tex Taylor  |  September 1, 2010 at 12:34 am

    Damn! Anyone see this?

    http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/blog/devil_ball_golf/post/Golfer-s-swing-sparks-25-acre-California-blaze?urn=golf-266447

    Glad Oklahoma is not under severe drought conditions. I’d have burned the state down by now. I’ve become so accustomed to hit off the cart path, it’s almost become routine.

  • 24. Dan Trabue  |  September 1, 2010 at 12:53 am

    Tex…

    No, I do not agree with your “equivalence” and “equivocation”. I find it completely dishonest…

    Then do more research and show the 10 million murderous Muslims, if that’s what you’re suggesting. You asked me if I could

    point me to the number of recent and recorded acts of hideous violence carried out by 10MM raging loons willing to (1) fly planes into buildings, etc…

    I said, no. I can’t. Now use your own standard (ie, moral consistency and relevance) and point me to 10 million Muslims willing to fly planes into buildings, etc.

    Once you’ve done that, I’ll agree with you. If not, should I judge you by the same standard you set and say, “if you say you can, then I call you a liar.”?

  • 25. Dan Trabue  |  September 1, 2010 at 1:07 am

    As to your bible verses that you’ve brought up (“preaching alert!” Dan and Tex are discussing the Bible, after Tex brought it up…)…

    1. Luke 11:9 (NIV) “So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.”

    Yes! Jesus encouraged us to ask for what we want, to seek that which we want. I agree with that.

    How do you think that this passage relates to discernment?

    (By the way, could you be so kind as to define what you mean by discernment? Just to be sure we’re on the same page…)

    2. Mat 16:3 (KJV) “…’It will be foul weather today: for the sky is red and lowering.’ O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?”

    Yes, I agree that Jesus taught that we have a hard time being discerning and that Jesus directed that especially to the Pharisees and religious hypocrites in that particular text.

    Do you see a promise to grant every Christian a “gift of discernment” in that verse?

    3. Isa 11:2-3 (NIV) The Spirit of the Lord will rest upon him–the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord–and he will delight in the fear of the Lord. He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes, or decide by what he hears with his ears.

    Yes, I agree that Isaiah prophesied a Messiah who would have the Spirit of wisdom and knowledge (ie, Jesus, according to Christians). Do you think that this means that God promises all Christians that they will be discerning?

    4. Romans 1: Since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

    Yes! I think God IS evident within all creation, that God is implied by the order of the Creation and that all people could see this, if they were so inclined. But this is a passage directed to ALL people, not just Christians.

    Discernment, “the quality of being able to grasp and comprehend what is obscure” (MW) is a good thing that all people should strive for in their lives. I think Christians should strive to be discerning. But we’re not always, not any of us. Not all Christians, not all people.

    If you could answer my previous question about what you think discernment means, that might help.

    Thanks!

  • 26. Dan Trabue  |  September 1, 2010 at 1:15 am

    Oops. I said, “relevance” when I meant to say relativity. (ie, Moral relativity, not relevance). My bad.

    This “discernment” angle got me to thinking about back in the day when I traveled to various churches in various denominations with a Christian band. I recall that some more charismatic-y churches spoke of “the gift of discernment,” some. What they meant was more along the lines of reading people’s minds (not that they would put it that way), of being able to “see by the Spirit” if someone were being honest or not, if someone was trustworthy or not.

    It struck me at the time as a bit presumptuous and as a way of just ignoring people they didn’t like, because they could always write them off as heretics NOT because of what they had said, but because “I DISCERNED that he was a heretic, he was saying things to confuse, not to edify…” They discerned this not based upon what the person actually said, but on “the Spirit,” which conveniently echoed their cultural norms.

    Is it THAT sort of discernment you’re speaking of, sort of a “Holy Ghost Mind Reading” trick? If so, I decided a long time ago that this seems a bit more cultural than biblical in origin. Although, if you have a verse where God “promises” mind reading abilities to all God’s followers, please share it.

  • 27. Tex Taylor  |  September 1, 2010 at 1:54 am

    Dan, I just gave you the verses naming discernment ‘by name’. And if you can’t figure out that although Romans may refer to all men, as in all men have the gift of discernment to see, many do not correctly discern that God is there. Obviously discernment requires something more than science…

    I don’t believe I”m capable of opening your eyes. You’ll have to find somebody else, as the discussions concerning religion, I now shake the dust from my feet. I enjoyed your skepticism for a time, but I find you a little more than obtuse.

    As far as your 10MM Muslims, may I remind you that the number 10MM represents less than 1% of the people calling themselves Muslim?

  • 28. Dan Trabue  |  September 1, 2010 at 2:00 am

    Yes? And your evidence that 1% of Muslims want to kill people is…?

    Would you mind telling me what you mean by discernment?

    And if all you’re saying is that Jesus called Pharisees undiscerning, that all of humanity has the ability to see God in Creation, that Jesus was wise and that we ought to ask for what we need, then you and I are in agreement, right? So that’s a good thing, I reckon, don’t you think?

  • 29. Dan Trabue  |  September 1, 2010 at 2:01 am

    Or, to put it in YOUR words:

    point me to the number of recent and recorded acts of hideous violence carried out by 10MM raging loons willing to (1) fly planes into buildings, etc

  • 30. Tex Taylor  |  September 1, 2010 at 2:41 am

    Like I said Dan, I’m shaking the dust. But I will try to provide guidance as to how I can easily derive 10MM Muslim terrorists.

    Iraq, Syria, Iran, Indonesia, Libya, Egypt, the Taliban, Hamas, Hezbollah, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc, etc, etc.

    So I went and looked up designated Terrorist Organizations just for grins. You scan the list and tell me what religion predominates the list. And then provide me with the Christian version of the Taliban or Al-Qaeda.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_designated_terrorist_organizations

    I think it is time for you to start answering questions with something more specific than another question, don’t you? So I provide you this list again for the fourth time and ask you to explain it away, give me another organized religion with a comparable record, and tell me if you believe Mohammad and Jesus are compatible, and if so, why? No need for scripture this time – but you ignored my proviso from above, and skipped the by questions while your feathers ruffled about defining discernment.

    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks

  • 31. Tex Taylor  |  September 1, 2010 at 9:50 am

    Rutherford, back to Beck’s rally for a moment.

    I thought this short piece was a pretty good summation of what Beck is attempting to do – and I’m not sure even Beck realizes its full intent. Pretty interesting – I hesitated sending in your way. :wink:

    http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/15295.html

  • 32. Dan Trabue  |  September 1, 2010 at 11:39 am

    Sorry, but by YOUR OWN standards (“point me to the number of recent and recorded acts of hideous violence carried out by 10MM raging loons willing to (1) fly planes into buildings, etc”), you are falling far short of ten million. Too many? To be sure. But not ten million.

    But thanks for playing.

    I guess (again, by YOUR standards) that makes you a liar.

    So, you won’t answer what you mean by discernment? Well, you’re a big boy and can make your own decisions.

    Beyond that, it appears that we agree on each and every point you raised (ie, there IS no “gift of discernment” mentioned in the Bible, Jesus was wise, Pharisees were NOT discerning, asking for things is good) so I’m not sure why you’re taking your ball and running home. It’s just a conversation, friends, not hand to hand combat.

  • 33. Alfie  |  September 1, 2010 at 12:49 pm

    #1. boobies are heavenly
    #2 if anyone would like a quick click to a Pew report looking at religion in Africa. nuggets for everyone

    http://pewforum.org/executive-summary-islam-and-christianity-in-sub-saharan-africa.aspx

  • 34. Dan Trabue  |  September 1, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    Very interesting report, Alfie. Thanks for pointing it out.

  • 35. dead rabbit  |  September 1, 2010 at 8:51 pm

    Wrong hands can take a hot bowl of chicken soup and scald a motherfucker with it.

    Does that mean we come on the Rutherford Lawson blog and discuss soup?

    I can’t believe it works.

    How many here remember Rutherford in late 2008 to early 2009?

    He excitingly posted video of every fire-side chat by Obama. And I mean every one!

    Flash forward to September 2010. Obama gives the most important speech to date, yet Rutherford finds a rogue tidbit by some fuck-stick who thinks he is a Christian to center piece his blog.

    Nice fog machine, R.

    Rutherford gets exactly what he wants.

    Tex responds, rightfully annoyed, as we all know the small amount of dangerously radical Christians in the modern world.

    Of course, the pseudo-educated will bring up Uganda and Nigeria, ignoring the many other socio-political forces at play that drive those conflicts. Thus, animism mixed with Christianity becomes run of the mill Christianity in Uganda. Tribalism and regionalism take a back seat to a conflict supposedly driven by Christianity in Nigeria.

    Yet, the Wahhabi movement seems to transcend culture, class and geography. It is orthodoxy and not the other way around. It’s theology is the driving force. Not regional politics. Regionalism is it’s enemy, as we saw in the Sunni uprising in Iraq. Pan-Islam-ism. Global in nature. Name anything in Christianity that even resembles such a dangerous movement, you turds.

    Some people say religion is opiate of the masses. I think a marginally black, unemployed blogger with cerebral palsy is.

  • 36. an800lbgorilla  |  September 1, 2010 at 9:09 pm

    Game. Set. Match.

    Previewing Ohio
    We’ll start rolling out our Ohio poll results tomorrow but there’s one finding on the poll that pretty much sums it up: by a 50-42 margin voters there say they’d rather have George W. Bush in the White House right now than Barack Obama.

    Independents hold that view by a 44-37 margin and there are more Democrats who would take Bush back (11%) than there are Republicans who think Obama’s preferable (3%.)

    A couple months ago I thought the Pennsylvanias and Missouris and Ohios of the world were the biggest battlegrounds for 2010 but when you see numbers like this it makes you think it’s probably actually the Californias and the Wisconsins and the Washingtons.

  • 37. an800lbgorilla  |  September 1, 2010 at 9:12 pm

  • 38. Rutherford  |  September 2, 2010 at 12:35 am

    Some people say religion is opiate of the masses. I think a marginally black, unemployed blogger with cerebral palsy is.

    I was just thinking to myself this morning (I kid you not) about how you’re able to go weeks, nay months, relatively civil and then you utter some incredibly offensive nasty sh*t with no corresponding provocation.

    Well a jolly f*ck you to you too. Beer gone bad doesn’t justify your bullsh*t. For the record … I’m underemployed … I’m black enough to know I’m not white …. and I don’t have cerebral palsy (not that there is anything wrong with that). And tonight, you are an assh*le.

  • 39. Rutherford  |  September 2, 2010 at 12:42 am

    As for the rest of you who are not being assh*les tonight, I wrote this quickie before Obama’s speech. I did not write it to avoid writing about Obama’s speech. I saw the video, was amused by it, and wanted to toss a quick one out there. Not every post I write is meant to be slaved over by me. Some are just as I said before, quickies.

    Believe it or not, I didn’t see Obama’s speech until today. For the most part, it bored me. The press reaction to it was predictable. Libs upset cos he didn’t bash Bush and conservatives upset because he didn’t call Bush a hero.

    Same old sh*t.

    P.S. I’ve printed a guest post by Huck. You don’t like the subject matter Rabbit, get your own damn blog or write me a guest post. Otherwise, respectfully STFU. :evil:

  • 40. an800lbgorilla  |  September 2, 2010 at 12:49 am

    What guest post?

  • 41. Tex Taylor  |  September 2, 2010 at 12:54 am

    Rutherford, don’t you dare give me a quickie! I expect the full screwing if you’re going to deal with me.

    You think you’re some teenager again and can get away with a cheap date? I’ve earned the right for you to go all out, full bore, pedal to the medal, not beat around the bush (no, not my bush). :twisted:

  • 42. Tex Taylor  |  September 2, 2010 at 12:56 am

    I am absolutely sure I was not an asshole tonight, for the sole reason I wasn’t here tonight, and it was my turn to be an asshole last night, and my turn to be an asshole tomorrow night.

  • 43. an800lbgorilla  |  September 2, 2010 at 1:02 am

    I thought you the waxing type Tex :)

  • 44. El Tigre  |  September 2, 2010 at 7:59 am

    Over the top Rabbit. Not cool.

  • 45. El Tigre  |  September 2, 2010 at 8:06 am

    Let me fix it: “marginally cerebral, un-black.”

  • 46. hippieprof  |  September 2, 2010 at 8:35 am

    Ahhhh….. it is always so much fun to return from a period of blogging silence and visit Rutherford’s blog – a place where I am sure to find intelligent analysis – and failing that – at least I get a video celebrating boobies.
    ;)

    — hp

  • 47. Rutherford  |  September 2, 2010 at 9:02 am

    I am absolutely sure I was not an asshole tonight,

    There you go Tex … you provided Rabbit’s excuse … it was his turn :-)

  • 48. Rutherford  |  September 2, 2010 at 9:06 am

    Let me fix it: “marginally cerebral, un-black.”

    LOL Tigre … closer to the truth but not entirely there. So long as folks have a definition of what it is to be “black” then I’m not likely to fit the mold for any number of reasons. Heck I don’t fit too many molds. I sometimes think I was born to defy stereotypes. :-)

  • 49. Rutherford  |  September 2, 2010 at 9:08 am

    What guest post?

    Ehhhh Gorilla, this one. In fact you even commented on it … albeit off topic ;-)

  • 50. Rutherford  |  September 2, 2010 at 9:11 am

    Welcome back HP. I saw your post the other day summarizing your year in the blogosphere. I need to give it a closer look.

    As for the boobs … hey I aim to please. :-)

  • 51. Rutherford  |  September 2, 2010 at 9:14 am

    Oh Tex …. if you really wanna know what a cheap date I am, ask my wife. :-)

    Hint: as we got in the limo after our wedding reception and the chauffeur offered us champagne, the first words out of my mouth were “do we pay for that?” :lol:

  • 52. Tex Taylor  |  September 2, 2010 at 10:12 am

    After a long-winded email to you Rutherford, I opened my mail box and found this. Classic! Now everyone will appreciate this to a degree, but there is absolutely nobody on this board that will appreciate to the degree you and I do – especially after our personal. Enjoy and tell me if this isn’t the truth? :smile:

    ————-

    This makes so much sense… I know why I NEVER
    GOT close to 100%.

    What makes 100%? What does it mean to give MORE than 100%?

    Ever wonder about those people who say they are giving more than 100%?

    We have all been to those meetings where someone wants you to give more than 100% How about achieving 103%? What makes up 100% in life?

    This little mathematical formula might help you answer these questions:

    If:
    A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z

    is represented as:
    1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26

    then

    H A R D W O R K
    8 +1 + 18 + 4 + 23 + 15 +18 + 11 = 98%

    and
    K N O W L E D G E
    11 + 14 + 15 + 23 + 12 + 5 + 4 + 7 + 5 = 96%

    BUT

    A T T I T U D E
    1 + 20 + 20 + 9 + 20 + 21 + 4 + 5 = 100%

    and

    B U L L S H I T
    2 + 21+ 12 + 12 + 19 + 8 + 9 + 20 = 103%

    AND, look how far ass kissing will take you –

    A S S K I S S I N G
    1 + 19 + 19 + 11 + 9 + 19 + 9 + 14 + 7 = 118%

    So one can conclude with mathematical certainty that while Hard work and Knowledge will get you close, and Attitude will get you there, its the Bullshit and Ass kissing that will put you over the top.

  • 53. Rutherford  |  September 2, 2010 at 10:22 am

    Tex, that is CLASSIC. LOL

  • 54. Tex Taylor  |  September 2, 2010 at 10:24 am

    You know, math was always kind of my thing. I was doing a little adding of my buddy’s email and the numbers don’t work, but it still was funny….

  • 55. Tex Taylor  |  September 2, 2010 at 10:25 am

    Take that back – he just didn’t plug all the numbers.

  • 56. Rutherford  |  September 2, 2010 at 10:37 am

    Tex on asskissing, not only was his math bad (misspelled it adds up to 108, not 118) but he didn’t add it the way he spelled it. LOL

    But as you say, it’s the thought that counts and the thought was brilliant.

  • 57. Tex Taylor  |  September 2, 2010 at 10:45 am

    Hint: as we got in the limo after our wedding reception and the chauffeur offered us champagne, the first words out of my mouth were “do we pay for that?”

    :lol: My answer probably would have been, “don’t you have anything stronger. I just sold my life away.” I mean, you’re talking to somebody here who had an anxiety attack the second night of his honeymoon after waking up in a cold sweat thinking, “Oh my Lord, what have I done?” :smile:

    ——————-

    True story. My honeymoon was the honeymoon from hell. I’m surprised the marriage lasted two weeks, much less the 23 years.

    Since my wife and I were a little older than most when we got married, we didn’t need the romance (cough cough). What’s another night, hey? :smile:

    Anyway, we chose to do something “fun.” So we went on one of these combination DisneyWorld cruise/park escapades. Well the boat was real nice, except the water was incredibly rough and we hadn’t anymore gotten out of port, than my wife started puking. Nothing turns you on like watching your new wife puking over the toilet. I won’t mention the other turn ons that accompanied the vomiting.

    So anyway, after three long days, we reach dry land and the only thing we can find to eat (lobster and crab wasn’t exactly what my wife’s stomach wanted), was a Burger King in the Bahamas, where we both proceeded to get food poisoning and vomited together the next day.

    Then in my sickness, I feel asleep on the corporate owned beach with absolutely no sun screen (dead of winter at home) and went from albino to dark as Africa in four hours, mixed in with a big dash of that lobster color whitey gets before the melanin goes to work.

    The second day at DisneyWorld, I assume I had compromised my immune system to such a degree with my world class tan (that later came off in about 1ft strips), I got the stomach virus and puked some more on the plane ride home. Did I mention I woke up scratching so bad in the middle of my back, that I had to take a cold shower and cover myself in calamine lotion? I made the trip out in thug Miami (what a POS) with the Haitians who sounded like they had arrived from Mars to buy Calamine location at 3:00 in the morning? Me and the drug runners were frequenting that evening. At least for a short time, I kind of looked like them with sun-bleached hair.

    I don’t remember ever getting laid on my own honeymoon. What a disaster…

  • 58. Tex Taylor  |  September 2, 2010 at 11:22 am

    Four Great Religious Truths

    During these serious and trying times, people of all faiths should remember these four great religious truths:

    1. Muslims do not recognize Jews as God’s chosen people.

    2. Jews do not recognize Christ as the Messiah.

    3. Protestants do not recognize the Pope as the leader of the Christian world.

    4. Baptists do not recognize each other at Hooters or the liquor store.

  • 59. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  September 2, 2010 at 11:58 am

    Tex, I have a similar story.

    And because of that, I don’t fly US SCAIR any more.

  • 60. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  September 2, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    Every time I scroll too far and see that pic of Tom Joyner, I just want to stretch a condom over his head.

  • 61. an800lbgorilla  |  September 2, 2010 at 4:36 pm

  • 62. Tex Taylor  |  September 2, 2010 at 5:03 pm

    Pretty darn clever, if you ask me.

  • 63. dead rabbit  |  September 2, 2010 at 5:59 pm

    Rutherford, I apologize about that last comment I made. While you probably won’t believe this, I wasn’t really trying to be disrespectful. At least not in the sense that you were rightfully offended. I know that sounds crazy, and there is no way to defend it, but it’s true. After seeing you get pissed off, I went back and read what I wrote and was embarrassed.

  • 64. Rutherford  |  September 2, 2010 at 9:10 pm

    Rabbit, apology accepted … sh*t happens.

  • 65. hippieprof  |  September 2, 2010 at 10:36 pm

    I know that there are maybe two Krugman fans here and I know that this link is going to be flamed – but he makes a good argument that his prediction was proven correct…..

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/03/opinion/03krugman.html?_r=1&src=twt&twt=NytimesKrugman

  • 66. Tex Taylor  |  September 3, 2010 at 12:04 am

    Unfortunately for Krugman, who has incredibly poor track record of prediction (got the last three recessions right twenty times :smile: ) he seems to have forgotten that unemployment went from less than 8.0% to more than 10.% in 2009 and the private sector never has really grown – the timeline when Krugman says the stimulus was working. It’s a public slush fund and progressive’s wet dream; that’s all.

    Thankfully, people are finally coming to the conclusion Keynesian economics not only doesn’t solve recessions, but sustains them.

    I’d flame the article, but Krugman has gotten to be such fodder for Conservatives, most just ignore him now – he’s the Keith Olbermann of economists. He’s has got his fans at the NYT, MSNBC, the hardcore libs and even the Nobel, all who have a questionable future of existence, but like Al Gore has become a running joke. The Nobel was the final icing on the cake so we could laugh at the lib establishment, indicating Krugman’s reputation and his results (like AGW) will go the way of the dodo bird.

  • 67. an800lbgorilla  |  September 3, 2010 at 12:41 am

    Is it stimulus spending- or the lack thereof- keeping unemployment high, or economic fear on the part of business as to what hiring will really cost?

    No one knows what Obamacare is going to actually cost business in general, let alone small business. Financial reform is actually going to hurt small business. The cost of doing business, beaurocratically, is going through the roof (1099’s for every purchase over $600). In fact, that little tidbit is going to crush small business as large business consolidates purchases. Cap and Trade fears and God knows how many other ideological agenda issues- all of which are scarring the shit out of business.

    The economy is shrinking as GDP regresses and it is becoming more a question of when- not if- the double dip occurs. And I’m sorry, borrowing trillions of dollars is not helping. As our deficits climb, while our economy shrinks, the international community is warming to the idea of not using the dollar as a reserve currency. If the dollar is abandoned as the world’s reserve currency, we will be hugely fucked.

    Deficits do matter.

  • 68. an800lbgorilla  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:15 am

    Hey R, we gonna get a paranoid post on the dangers of radical ideology and i9ts threat to the population, kind of like your effigy post? I’m just curious if you’re gonna call out Al Gore for the dangers he is clearly posing to the public.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38957020/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

  • 69. an800lbgorilla  |  September 3, 2010 at 3:48 am

  • 70. hippieprof  |  September 3, 2010 at 8:19 am

    Gorilla – it isn’t Al Gore – it is Daniel Quinn (author of “Ishmael”) who is the problem….. misinterpreting him can get you shot….

  • 71. Tex Taylor  |  September 3, 2010 at 8:53 am

    Interesting that the book Ishmael would enter the discussion about ‘religion’. I do hope the libbies here, never missing an opportunity to slam Conservatives Jews and all Christians, do recognize that Ishmael is nothing but ‘New Age’ religion with a lefty, eco wacko twist. Kind of cheap ripoff from Genesis and Dr. Doolittle – really bad movie. :smile:

    And I suppose I should give kudos to the blog author, because he is absolutely right. Religion can be used for great good (millions of examples) and great evil (as indicated by James Lee, because this was practicing his own form of religion).

    I am getting closer to deciding all men and women have some form of ‘religion’ whether they recognize it or not – even atheism has become a loose form of religion as indicated by their continual debate and contemplation about something that supposedly doesn’t exist. It’s their own internal struggle, and ironically I’ve found more often than not atheists speaking about ‘god’ as in no god far more than any preacher.

  • 72. Rutherford  |  September 3, 2010 at 10:41 am

    Gorilla, you don’t understand just how well the cartoon you posted nails down the problem.

    How do we fix America? Any five year old can say “look to the Constitution and the Bible”. Utter simplistic nonsense. We need policy. The folks represented in the cartoon couldn’t come up with policy if their life depended on it …. and I’m not sure they could recognize good policy if it smacked them between the eyes.

    Your cartoon was right on … but not for the reasons you think.

  • 73. Rutherford  |  September 3, 2010 at 10:48 am

    Rabbit, if we ignore the turd you dropped at the end of your comment and deal with the substance ….

    Don’t you know I could write an article about a ham sandwich and my loyal readers would find a way to tie it back to Obama and have a 100 comment debate about it? It goes like this …

    1. Muslims can’t eat ham
    2. Link from WeaselZippers gets posted that Obama doesn’t like ham
    3. Ahhhh Obama is a Muslim
    4. 97 comments proceed debating Obama being a Muslim. :-)

    I’ve already accepted the fact that this blog is about the comments section. My articles are just the seed for whatever anyone wants to get off their chest.

    As for the videos I used to dutifully post from Obama every week. I had one big reason for doing it … he was the first President to take the weekly radio address to video and I thought that was groundbreaking and worth covering. I stopped because I found the themes discussed every week to be repetitive and not all that newsworthy. My time was better spent writing about other stuff.

  • 74. Tex Taylor  |  September 3, 2010 at 11:16 am

    Don’t you know I could write an article about a ham sandwich and my loyal readers would find a way to tie it back to Obama and have a 100 comment debate about it? It goes like this…

    :lol: Well, we all love you and know how you like to talk about Obama. Besides, how’s that any different than your strange obsession with Conservative women, most notably Sarah Palin?

    If I didn’t know better, I’d think you were quickly becoming a closet Conservative.

  • 75. Rutherford  |  September 3, 2010 at 11:23 am

    If I didn’t know better, I’d think you were quickly becoming a closet Conservative.

    I even scare my wife sometimes. :-)

  • 76. hippieprof  |  September 3, 2010 at 12:08 pm

    Tex said: Interesting that the book Ishmael would enter the discussion about ‘religion’. I do hope the libbies here, never missing an opportunity to slam Conservatives Jews and all Christians, do recognize that Ishmael is nothing but ‘New Age’ religion with a lefty, eco wacko twist.

    Tex – I think I agree on this one.

    Here is a funny story – at least funny to me because it involves my daughter. About 5 years ago she did a project for one of her art classes in which she created a bunch of very edgy postcards based on Quinn’s ideas. She then sent these postcards to various people to see what reaction she would get. She sent one to Quinn himself – and actually received a letter in return. He told her that she had completely misunderstood his ideas. She was crushed – it was like the Marshal McLuhan scene from Annie Hall….

    I sent her a facebook message the other day – reminding her how lucky she was to merely get a letter of reprimand. After all, misinterpreting Quinn can get you shot….

    I probably only see the story as relevant because it involves my daughter – but I also think it speaks to your suggestion that Quinn’s work represents some kind of new age religion. I think you are correct – people take Quinn’s ideas very seriously – including Quinn himself…

  • 77. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  September 3, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    The folks represented in the cartoon couldn’t come up with policy if their life depended on it …. and I’m not sure they could recognize good policy if it smacked them between the eyes.

    The Number Two Rutherford Meme: “The American People Are Stupid and must subject themselves to the guidance and leadership of their self appointed “betters.”

    Yes, R, I’m sure that they couldn’t come up with good or effective policy.

    Ideas like “Don’t spend more than you make.” and “Don’t steal from others” and “Don’t exceed limits clearly set forth in the Constitution” are all pretty dumb. No way they could work as policy.

    And will you please put up a new post, so I don’t scroll down and see that dickhead Tom Joyner. He looks like he escaped from the set of the Coneheads without taking off his makeup/

  • 78. hippieprof  |  September 3, 2010 at 12:59 pm

    Rutherford said: Your cartoon was right on … but not for the reasons you think.

    I just stole the cartoon and posted a link to it on my own blog. You are absolutely right Rutherford – conservatives tend to see very simple solutions in a very complex world. My blog article was expanding on Tony Blair’s assessment of Bush’s world view as one of “Immense simplicity.” This cartoon could not have been better timed to support the point I was trying to make.

  • 79. hippieprof  |  September 3, 2010 at 1:03 pm

    BiW said: Ideas like “Don’t spend more than you make.” and “Don’t steal from others” and “Don’t exceed limits clearly set forth in the Constitution” are all pretty dumb. No way they could work as policy.

    I will reiterate what I said to Rutherford. Conservatives have a tendency to see the world in very simple ways, and look for simple solutions to complex problems. The cartoon inadvertently demonstrates exactly that. I guess this makes me an elitist. So be it…..

    BTW – now that Elric is gone, I don’t think that conservatives positing here are generally of the simplistic variety. I enjoy this blog because the discussion is usually on a pretty high level – at least after you filter out the vitriol.

  • 80. Rutherford  |  September 3, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    HippieProf …. regarding the cartoon, glad Gorilla and I could be of service. :-) And you are right … the level of debate here is pretty decent despite the skewed political perspective presented therein. ;-)

  • 81. Rutherford  |  September 3, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    In the course of my day job, I discovered the depths to which the music industry has fallen. I had just finished creating a video and after uploading it to YouTube I discovered a video by a woman who calls herself Riskay. Her song, and I kid you not, was called “Can I Smell Yo Dick?” and the narrative if you want to call it that, was about a woman who suspects her man of cheating and wants to smell his penis to confirm her suspicions.

    This is what young folks are listening to? I don’t want to sound like a fuddy duddy but I think this makes Alice Cooper’s songs about necrophilia that I sang with delight as a teenager pale in comparison. Wups, did I just say too much?

  • 82. Rutherford  |  September 3, 2010 at 1:23 pm

    Worst part was …. the damn song was catchy. Now I’ll be walking around the house the rest of the day singing “can I smell yo dick?”

  • 83. hippieprof  |  September 3, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    Following up on Rutherford’s theme of questionable yet catchy music, I offer the following:

  • 84. Hucking Fypocrites  |  September 3, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    HP, you speak of simplicity as if it is a bad thing and the product of simple minds.

    It isn’t.

    Liberals like complexity because it allows them to hide their agendas. That’s why we have to pass bills so we can see what’s in them.

  • 85. El Tigre  |  September 3, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    Amen Huck.

  • 86. Rutherford  |  September 3, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    Actually Cee Lo was at least a bit clever. Riskay was just … well … risque.

  • 87. El Tigre  |  September 3, 2010 at 1:49 pm

    Try some afrikaans:

  • 88. hippieprof  |  September 3, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    Huck, Occam’s Razor only really applies when the system you are describing is simple. Attempting to find a simple description to a complex problem is like rounding pi to 3.0 because it makes calculations simpler…..

  • 89. Blackiswhite, Imperial Consigliere  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    HP, that is nonsense.

    Declaring complexity where none exists has done wonders for creating a political class, but even a blind man can see that in so doing, we have given the keys to a group of people with the wrong, map, no clues, and a sense of infalibilitywrapped around some serious inferiority complexes that have become painfully obvious since Nov 08.

    That certain group of people have been beating the “America is dumb” drum since the candidacy of Adlai Stevenson’s candidacy, and it is just as incorrect today as it was then. The only difference is now we are actually saddled with “the smart guys” and we have a front row seat to their greed and mendacity, like never before.

  • 90. Rutherford  |  September 3, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    My history is not what it once was, but if I’m not mistaken Adlai took his elitism too far by refusing to do TV ads while Eisenhower understood the relatively new TV medium was the way to go.

    Obama, on the contrary, understood that the Internet was the way to go and he built a sizable following using it. The parallel you make is a shaky one.

  • 91. Rutherford  |  September 3, 2010 at 3:35 pm

    This yearning for “simplicity” is precisely why Sarah Palin can thrive. Her mindless platitudes qualify as policy statements in the land of “common sense conservatism”.

    Blech!

  • 92. hippieprof  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:03 pm

    BiW – are you really seriously trying to suggest that the world is a simple place? I don’t know how to even begin responding to that…. other that to state once again that our world is immensely complex….

    On occasion I might be heard to proclaim that Americans are stupid. It is a gut reaction, probably not appropriate, and certainly unwise for me to repeat with any regularity.

    Instead, I believe that most Americans have been lulled into lazy complacency. Complexity is hard to handle – it hurts the brain! It is a lot easier to listen to the pseudo-religious platitudes offered by Beck and Palin and others than it is to dig into the thoughts of a Niebuhr, for example.

    It is our unusually high standard of living that has made such complacency possible. Ironically, this complacency will be our undoing.

    Wow – I guess I am in a mood to pontificate today….

  • 93. El Tigre  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    You guys kill me. Leadership does not require the complexity you suggest (which really just blather intended to justify your belief that you’re smarter than those that disagree with you). It requires adherence to well-founded principles and sound judgement. A race car is a complicated piece of machinery, but that doesn’t mean you have to be an engineer to drive it.

  • 94. hippieprof  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:14 pm

    Let me follow up that last statement with a simple example of complexity.

    Our life experiences alter our perceptions of the world. That is a scientifically demonstrable fact. Perception is in turn the most basic unit of cognition. Our perception determines how we experience new information and how we understand that information. In turn, differing perceptions lead to patters of thinking and different conclusions. As a result, people with vastly different backgrounds will make vastly different (yet personally honest) conclusions about “truth.” Despite what they might think, neither of these people has some privileged grasp of reality.

    I am probably sounding like some postmodern deconstructionist – but that is not my intent. I am simply noting that there are degrees of complexity at even the most basic levels of cognition – complexity that defies simple description.

  • 95. Tex Taylor  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    WTF?

    Occam’s Razor only really applies when the system you are describing is simple.

    Occam’s razor has been applied from everything to the formations of the universe, to complex business models including the NASA critical path models, to reference by Einstein’s theory of relativity. Even Spock referenced Occam’s Razor in Star Trek’s “Wrath of Khan”, though not necessarily by name.

    The problem with most libs (Rutherford is actually one of the few that doesn’t remind me of this principle) is that they see some utopia if only more complex thoughts can be applied. They called in analysis paralysis in corporations, reminding me of the weekly “blame assessment” meeting I used to attend while in corporate America where we “brain stormed” and drank coffee eating donuts. Nothing ever comes from them but smoke up the ass and wasted dollars.

    P.S. – that healthcare proposal you keep telling us isn’t popular because it didn’t go far enough? The Dim Senator from Oregon Wyden just told his constituents to dump the idea of individual mandates unraveling his own bill. :smile: Wyden knows what’s coming in about 60 days. :twisted:

  • 96. hippieprof  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    A race car is a complicated piece of machinery, but that doesn’t mean you have to be an engineer to drive it.

    Bullshit. The best race car drivers know a hell of a lot about how the car works. If they didn’t, they would not be able to provide meaningful feedback to the pit crew about what to adjust. What do you think all of that pre-race testing is all about?

  • 97. El Tigre  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:21 pm

    HP, with that huge intellect of yours, please re-read what I said. Sheesh.

  • 98. Tex Taylor  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:24 pm

    Hippie,

    While this is your cup of tea isn’t even Manslow’s Hierarchy of Needs based on simplicity? Seemed to me to be pretty simple.

    I would say this: good simplicity disguises necessary complexity. Rutherford could add to this, but he would attest the most simple and best of informational systems are the simplest to use, but based on the most complex of code.

    I’ve never seen a lib yet that could design something simple utilizing complexity that didn’t come out complex (and fucked up). And I’ll use both health care and tax law as examples. Abortions…

  • 99. Rutherford  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    A race car is a complicated piece of machinery, but that doesn’t mean you have to be an engineer to drive it.

    But you do need an engineer or at least a mechanic to fix it. America needs fixing. Don’t we agree on that?

  • 100. Rutherford  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:30 pm

    Well, hell … in the end doesn’t everything come down to 1’s and zeros? ;-)

  • 101. Rutherford  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:33 pm

    Oh crap! This guy is a lot closer to “meeting his maker” than he used to be and lookie what he has decided!

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100902/lf_nm_life/us_britain_hawking

  • 102. El Tigre  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    “But you do need an engineer or at least a mechanic to fix it. America needs fixing. Don’t we agree on that?”

    Yep. But that doesn’t mean that engineers make the best drivers as Hippie seemingly posits.

  • 103. El Tigre  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    And America sure needs fixing after all that the Dems have done to destroy her with their genius.

  • 104. hippieprof  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    Yep. But that doesn’t mean that engineers make the best drivers as Hippie seemingly posits.

    So, right back at you Tigre. You accuse me of misrepresenting you. Fair enough. Now show me where I said the engineers are the best drivers? I simply said that a good driver knows quite a bit about how the car works.

  • 105. Rutherford  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    A very good response about the proper Christian response to Hawking’s assertions.

    http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/guestvoices/2010/09/stephen_hawking_says_theres_no_creator_god_the_twitterverse_reacts.html

  • 106. El Tigre  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:10 pm

    Hippie, I simply applied your “all or nothing” logic and VOILA! That’s why libs rely on it as you did. And now we have a paradox.

  • 107. hippieprof  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    Tex said: Occam’s razor has been applied from everything to the formations of the universe…… Even Spock referenced Occam’s Razor in Star Trek’s “Wrath of Khan”

    Well, much as I love Star Trek it is hardly a good representation of how science works…. but….

    Occam’s razor absolutely cannot work when your model is simpler than the system it is describing. Oh – it might give you a decent approximation if approximation is all you are looking for – but it also might not.

    Lets use a simple example from embryology: Prior to the development of microscopes, preformation would be the simplest theory of embryonic development. In fact, it WAS the dominant theory of development. Occam would have been appalled had someone suggested the much more complex model of embryonic change we hold today – but of course that complex model was proven correct when microscopic studies became possible.

    Also, let me quote from the very article Huck linked:

    In science, Occam’s razor is used as a heuristic (rule of thumb) to guide scientists in the development of theoretical models rather than as an arbiter between published models.[5][6] In the scientific method, Occam’s razor is not considered an irrefutable principle of logic, and certainly not a scientific result

    Sorry – trying to apply Occam’s razor to political; world views is just mistaken.

  • 108. hippieprof  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:17 pm

    Tigre said: And America sure needs fixing after all that the Dems have done to destroy her with their genius.

    Wow – you had eight years of consecutive rule, during which time our current economic problems developed. We have had less than two years, during which time we have moved out of recession (albeit not quickly enough).

    How do you even begin to justify such a statement with a straight face?

  • 109. Tex Taylor  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:29 pm

    I saw that Rutherford and it read like Dan. Like I’ve told Dan, the man is not worthy to be apologizing for anything or anybody – that’s an arrogance wrapped in sanctimony. The apology is meaningless and empty.

    Don’t confuse that I’m condoning what was said. There’s no need to be cruel – but Hawking’s hypothesis was ridiculed, he’s obviously not what he once was, and his fame is undeserved best I can tell – it’s like Al Gore’s Nobel Prize – it sells on the Discovery Channel is not earth changing.

    For me personally, that I have always found Hawking a person to be pitied with a rare form of slowly debilitating ALS. I have studied his lifetime of works and have found his supposed genius based more on popular atheist opinion than result – he’s a prop used in the argument. Quick, what’s his greatest contribution to science more than title of holding Newton’s chair?

    Hawking is an angry little man with a wife who left him, partially due to his “lack of” and hostility toward God. I give Hawking no more credibility than I do Richard Dawkins, and his comment bothers me not. I knew of his background.

    But like you, I wish people would can the chatter. The man is dying a miserable death nobody or no one can understand, and he is screaming out for a measure of comfort. That much I get. I have often questioned how I would respond if I found myself in a helpless situation. Would I react with anger or grace? It would be the ultimate measure of a man.

  • 110. El Tigre  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:31 pm

    I’m sorry. How long has there been consecutive “rule?” Did you forget 2006?

    Yep. Out of a recession and into a depression.

    I sure don’t have a straight face. It’s all twisted up with a look of utter bemusement from what you’ve written.

  • 111. Alfie  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:36 pm

    Hope and change,Yes we can…
    And yet the Right is the simple end of the spectrum???

  • 112. Tex Taylor  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:40 pm

    Funny you mention that Alfie – I thought the same thing last night of the “profundity” of the Obama campaign slogans of 2008 as one of Hippie’s commenters talked of Conservatives being insulated and simplistic.

    Yes We Can! :roll:

  • 113. El Tigre  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    Stop acting stupidly Alfie.

  • 114. hippieprof  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:47 pm

    um…. who ever said that political slogans were equivalent to a world view? Hope and Change isn’t a deep statement. Neither was “1000 points of light” or “a kinder, gentler nation.”

    So, I agree with Tigre. Stop acting stupid….
    ;)

  • 115. Alfie  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    Yeah and when it comes to slogans one has to remember I hail from the state of Obama=Lite.
    Also Rutherford regard the toon I’m tossing my response to Hippie here,literally via cut and paste.
    Hippie regards the toon I’d tell you and Rutherford the same thing. You two are taking a too simplistic interpretation of it. You are failing to see deeper. You are being immensely simplistic.
    It is no Mona Lisa or a Pollack (mmmpphh) but I think one can look and get deeper than you and R are getting.

  • 116. Alfie  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:51 pm

    HP I’m not being stupid or rude,yet.
    Hope and Change is exactly a cornerstone to the world view of Barack Obama.

  • 117. hippieprof  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:14 pm

    Hope and Change is exactly a cornerstone to the world view of Barack Obama.

    Alfie, Hope and Change by themselves are just empty slogans. You are refusing to recognize that there were (and still are) specific proposals to produce such hope and change. Some have been realized (albeit in diminished form) via Health Care Reform and Wall Street reform. Others have not (attempts to quell global warming). You may not like these solutions – but from my side of the aisle these victories represent major change – and hardly simplistic change.

    You are also not recognizing the most obvious example of hope and change: The election of a black president indeed sends a “yes we can” message to a historically disenfranchised sector of the population. This is why I get so angry when some people on your side seek not simply to defeat Obama but to see him destroyed.

    Again, there is nothing simple about that at all.

  • 118. Tex Taylor  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:42 pm

    Obama is evil – he must be stopped; he must be exposed; he must be humiliated and defeated so soundly that the uninformed masses of dumb asses, the hopelessly lost, the deviant, the mentally ill, the moderate who cast their vote for the Emperor Has No Clothes, and prince who would be king, THE ONE, THE FRAUD, THE Chicago Messiah will serve as a reminder “We Won’t Be Fooled Again.” Que the Who Music…

    READ THIS BULLSHIT!!!

    A man who would make boasts like this deserves not just to be defeated but so destroyed at the polls, that the hubris and stain of megalomania never opens it forked tongued mouth again:

    America, this is our moment (of hopelessness). This is our time (to pay back whitey). Our time to turn the page on the policies of the past (and destroy America with our futile polices of the future). Our time to bring new energy and new ideas to the challenges we face (:lol: yeah right). Our time to offer a new direction for the country we love….(to hate.)

    The journey will be difficult (damn difficult). The road will be long (and potholed). I face this challenge with profound humility (bullshit), and knowledge of my own limitations (GUFFAW). But I also face it with limitless faith in the capacity of the American people ME. Because if we are willing to work for it, and fight for it, and believe in it, then I am absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when (America was done) we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless; this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal (It’s Moses, MOSES); this was the moment when we ended a war (thanks to the Surge I didn’t support) and secured our nation (in spite of you) and restored our image as the last, best hope on earth as Muslim sympathizers. This was the moment—this was the time—when we came together to remake this great nation so that it may always reflect our very best selves and our highest ideals. Thank you, God I bless you, and may God I will bless the United States of America.

  • 119. hippieprof  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:47 pm

    But gee, Tex… do you like him?

    I really really really don’t get the vitriol. Maybe you hated on Clinton just as badly – and Clinton was surely just as liberal or more liberal. Why such depth of anger Tex?

    That is a serious question. It seems so disproportionate to anything the man has actually done.

  • 120. Tex Taylor  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:52 pm

    Is it true that Liberal leaders speak in riddles to maintain plausible deniability?

    Like when Obama (or BBM; Big Booty Michelle) on the duality of his speeches, he apologizes if WE misunderstood what was said.

  • 121. Dan Trabue  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:54 pm

    Wow.

  • 122. Tex Taylor  |  September 3, 2010 at 7:02 pm

    Hippie,

    I don’t hate Obama – I fear what damage Obama is capable of doing. I left documented reasons at BiC’s today why I thought Obama a sociopath, if interested. And I was completely serious – no joking like above.

    I honestly believe if not for the established power of the American public after 200+ years, the Conservative nature of our military, and though often challenged our Constitution, Obama would make the every attempt to make America in his deprived image – forked tongued image.

  • 123. hippieprof  |  September 3, 2010 at 7:04 pm

    I honestly believe if not for the established power of the American public after 200+ years, the Conservative nature of our military, and though often challenged our Constitution, Obama would make the every attempt to make America in his deprived image – forked tongued image.

    Tex…. ah…. read what you said. Doesn’t it strike you as a tad… ah…. crazy?

  • 124. Tex Taylor  |  September 3, 2010 at 7:10 pm

    Crazy? You mean crazy like telling us of a summer recovery? Sorry, I consider that “forked-tongue.”

    How to DEFINE RECOVERY DOWN. And down, and down . . .

    The so-called underemployment rate, which includes workers who are working part-time but who want full-time work, increased from 16.5 percent to 16.7 percent. During our supposed ‘Recovery Summer,’ we have lost 283,000 jobs (54,000 in June, 171,000 in July, and 54,000 in August). And for August, the employment-population ratio — the percentage of Americans with jobs — was 58.5 percent. We haven’t seen figures this low in nearly three decades.”

    What would you call that depth of lying Hippie? A recovery? And even you can’t even see ‘tad’ bit of depravity in the conclusion?

    Clearly sociopathic.

  • 125. hippieprof  |  September 3, 2010 at 7:16 pm

    Tex, do you know what a sociopath is?

    Did you notice that today’s employment report was actually better than expected? That the private sector added jobs? You won’t hear about that on FOX….

    Have you noticed the GOP blocking everything we try to do to fix the economy – and then having the gall to turn around and blame the problems on democrats? It certainly can fool the ill-informed – but you are smart enough to see what your side is doing. In fact, I predicted it back in the spring: You are doing everything you can to a prevent a recovery just so you can get political mileage out of it come November.

    You KNOW you are doing it Tex….

  • 126. Tex Taylor  |  September 3, 2010 at 7:30 pm

    Did you notice that today’s employment report was actually better than expected? That the private sector added jobs? You won’t hear about that on FOX….

    Did you notice the unemployment rate went up? Did you noticed the real underemployed rate went up? Did you notice Obama has added $3.5 trillion to the debt. Did you notice the stimulus clearly did not work? Did you notice that Obama has epically failed on all of his economic promises? Did you notice our bond rating is now endangered? Did you notice that last week, the Chinese told Obama’s economic advisers that we have been poor custodians of their money? Would you like me to go on? There’s plenty more…

    You won’t hear about that on FOX…

    To show you have a hearing disability, or simply are spouting your version of truth without real truth, can we place a small wager – straight off the FOX Business Channel?

    Have you noticed the GOP blocking everything we try to do to fix the economy – and then having the gall to turn around and blame the problems on democrats? It certainly can fool the ill-informed – but you are smart enough to see what your side is doing.

    Have you heard the word majority Congress? Have you heard the words “it’s Bush’s fault? Have you heard the stimulus would keep unemployment below 8%? Have you heard Paul Krugman can’t find his butt cheeks with both hands, as the first stimulus package results abysmal?

    In fact, I predicted it back in the spring: You are doing everything you can to a prevent a recovery just so you can get political mileage out of it come November.

    Have you heard excuses are like assholes? Have you heard George Bush has been gone 20 months? Have you heard Obama with a super majority said he could handle the economy with his policies? Have you heard even Ron Wyden now wants to repeal ObamaCare you said didn’t go far enough? I have also heard predicted on the Hippie Professor blog last spring election results are going to surprise everybody come November and that Dimocrats were going to be okay. :wink:

    You KNOW you are doing it Tex….

    Have you heard that’s above my pay grade?

  • 127. Alfie  |  September 3, 2010 at 8:17 pm

    @ HP #117.
    You’re trying to have your cake,deny me mine and eat both.
    I don’t really have a side. I’m pretty unique imo. I identify with the Right more than the Left but there are folks that question my right side street cred,and I don’t mean just Elric.
    As for the cake stuff. You really are trying to have it every way you can. I think if we’re going to have this conversation the question I asked you @ your blog must be answered. Where is the line between simple and complex? Seriously on HCR simply weighing 200 lbs doesn’t make it “complex” legislation. It is far reaching,intertwined and bulky but far from complex. Do you apply the complex label to things just to make it seem special?

    Thank you for playing a variation of the race card. I don’t know what feeling I should allow to dominate. I could go with exasperation in that the typical libbie response that we all did something great electing O secondary to his pigmentation. I could go with anger that the thinly veiled “you’re a racist ‘cuz you don’t like Obama” is in play. I could also go with joy secondary to the classic leftist racist guilt response that it IS Obama’s race all along that was important.

  • 128. Alfie  |  September 3, 2010 at 8:28 pm

    I’d love to hear about some of the things the GOP is doing to inhibit recovery.
    Also if anyone is going to spout off about recovery without looking at the BLS report and some intelligent analysis thereof…they should probably put there fingers in their ears instead of upon the keyboard.
    Best case scenario the jobs recovery is a negative.

  • 129. hippieprof  |  September 3, 2010 at 8:29 pm

    Alfie – I am going to get to your comment on my blog this evening – but it will require longer than I have right now.

    As far as the race card, I have never denied that Obama’s race had something (positive) to do with my vote. I am not embarrassed or guilty about that – nor do I see it as racist. I would very much like to move into a post-racial era and I saw (and still see) Obama’s election as a move in that direction. Sadly, it does seem to me that some people don’t particularly want to see a post-racial nation. That certainly does not describe all of Obama’s critics – but it does define some of them.

  • 130. hippieprof  |  September 3, 2010 at 8:34 pm

    So, if today’s jobs report was so bad, why did the DOW go up 100+ points – beginning right after the report was released?

    The private sector created more jobs than expected. The net loss of jobs resulted from a loss of government census jobs – which I will remind you the right wing never wanted counted to begin with. I still have trouble understanding how you can put a negative spin on that.

  • 131. Alfie  |  September 3, 2010 at 8:34 pm

    Well I’ll be getting into the adult beverage stockpile so I can;t guarantee I’ll see it.
    On an unrelated note….I love America but is this really the best way to get covert ops personnel.

    https://www.cia.gov/careers/opportunities/clandestine/index.html

    Seriously I shudder to think monster.com has an ad that says:
    young and adventurous people wanted to travel,spy and occasionally kill

  • 132. Alfie  |  September 3, 2010 at 8:38 pm

    HP
    first there is the concept of “churn” we’re rotating through jobs at a rate that outpaces actual growth.We as a nation are not “adding” jobs. At best we are ‘reactivating” some spots. Unemployment actually went UP. I can’t say that one enough.Healthcare and temporary services are the two leading private sector hiring entities. The former could be good news;however,ObamaCare will kill some of those.For the latter I can’t see why we should be even remotely excited by that.

  • 133. Alfie  |  September 3, 2010 at 8:42 pm

    HP I like the stock market as an economic indicator,I find it funny how predominantly lefties only like it when it seems to work for them.
    Any way one of the things I’m pretty consistent on about the stock markets is that when it goes up it isn’t always a good thing for people. Stocks can go up as people,corporations pursue killing companies and jobs ala growth.

  • 134. an800lbgorilla  |  September 3, 2010 at 9:09 pm

    Gorilla, you don’t understand just how well the cartoon you posted nails down the problem.” – R

    You’re right R, there’s no policy guidance in the Constitution…

    Occam’s razor absolutely cannot work when your model is simpler than the system it is describing. Oh – it might give you a decent approximation if approximation is all you are looking for – but it also might not…

    … Sorry – trying to apply Occam’s razor to political; world views is just mistaken. ” – HP

    What? First off, politics isn’t rocket science- there are no exact equations, the margin of error isn’t measured in micrometers. Hell, politics is nothing but approximation, speculation and assumption. So yes, Occam’s Razor is by far the best tool to use for politics.

    I’m not talking out my ass on this either- I used Occam’s Razor on some extremely complicated problems in Iraq and in my current position. The premise on the Surge was Occam’s Razor- defend the population- when there was some exceedingly complicating factors associated with the security environment, like: sectarian violence, ethnic violence, class warfare, foreign intervention, and ideological warfare (Ba’athism vs. theocracy vs. democracy).

    Since I’ve had to help develop policy, I would say that those who abandon Occam’s Razor are doomed to failure.

  • 135. Hucking Fypocrites  |  September 3, 2010 at 9:10 pm

    “Sorry – trying to apply Occam’s razor to political world views is just mistaken.”

    Only if you don’t recognize politics as a science.

  • 136. an800lbgorilla  |  September 3, 2010 at 9:10 pm

    As far as the race card, I have never denied that Obama’s race had something (positive) to do with my vote. I am not embarrassed or guilty about that – nor do I see it as racist. I would very much like to move into a post-racial era and I saw (and still see) Obama’s election as a move in that direction. Sadly, it does seem to me that some people don’t particularly want to see a post-racial nation. That certainly does not describe all of Obama’s critics – but it does define some of them.” – HP

    So when are you going to hold the Dems accountable for injecting race into everything?

  • 137. an800lbgorilla  |  September 3, 2010 at 9:52 pm

    Someone was talking about Islamic tolerance earlier, I seem to remember…

    Muslim cleric calls for beheading of Dutch politician

  • 138. Tex Taylor  |  September 3, 2010 at 10:20 pm

    So, if today’s jobs report was so bad, why did the DOW go up 100+ points – beginning right after the report was released?

    If the news is so good, so positive, why did the DOW drop 6% in August? It went up because the expectations were even lower. Why are we talking about a double dip recession? Where’s the big enthusiasm from anyone but you Hippie about Obama? Why are you the only one that believes Obama hasn’t been a major failure who is left on this board? Rutherford may support the social policies – even he admits the finances aren’t working and is paying the personal price for it.

    But more importantly, when are you going to quit the excuse making when your party has overwhelmingly been in charge of everything? Do you know how pathetically lame that makes you sound in you read? And you call me crazy?

    Your man was elected to solve these very problems you say Bush created. He said he could do it, remember? His economic advisers are leaving, he hasn’t made a dent after spending well over a trillion dollars to do so, has lost 3.5MM jobs during his reign, has increased the estimated unemployment over 2% while doing so, and his biggest achievement is widely unpopular and is going to cost many Democrats their jobs.

    We don’t have the power to bail your failures out. I told all of you Dims your ideas were hare brained two years ago and you didn’t listen. It’s time for you to leave the safe halls of academia and admit your pet theories look great on the chalk board and hideous in the board room.

    Corporations are not going to hire people when they are (1) demonized day in and day out by a feckless community organizer than couldn’t manage his office furniture, (2) put behind the 8-ball with corrupt unions, (3) pay the 2nd highest corporate taxes in the world, (4) lies out of his teeth about the direction of the economy, and (5) creates greater expense and greater uncertainty making it impossible to construct a business plan.

    This is simple…

  • 139. an800lbgorilla  |  September 3, 2010 at 11:12 pm

    Four guys have been going to the same deer camp for many years. Two days before the group is to leave, Ron’s wife puts her foot down and tells him he isn’t going.

    Ron’s friends are very upset that he can’t go, but what can they do.

    Two days later the three get to the camping site only to find Ron sitting there with a tent set up, firewood gathered, and dinner cooking on the fire.

    “Dang man, how long you been here, and how did you talk your wife into letting you go?”

    “Well, I’ve been here since last night. Yesterday evening, I was sitting in my chair and my wife came up behind me and put her hands over my eyes and said, ‘Guess who?'”
    I pulled her hands off, and she was wearing a brand new nightie.

    She took my hand and pulled me to our bedroom. The room had candles and rose petals all over. On the bed she had handcuffs, and ropes! She told me to tie and cuff her to the bed, and do whatever I wanted to.

    So, Here I am.

  • 140. an800lbgorilla  |  September 3, 2010 at 11:50 pm

    All need to read this.

    Ezra Klein of the Washington Post Maligns Founding Fathers

  • 141. Rutherford  |  September 4, 2010 at 12:13 am

    Well, in Ezra’s defense, we have lately elevated the Founding Fathers to God-like status. They were fallible humans folks, who did a mighty fine job of things considering the age they lived in (hence why I give them a pass on not abolishing slavery from the outset).

  • 142. Rutherford  |  September 4, 2010 at 12:15 am

    As for the stock market …. let’s get real, we all use it to prove our points. I’ve said consistently from the time I was a penny-ante investor that it’s a total casino where everyone plays Monday morning quarterback after the results come in like one can truly divine why the stocks really go up or down. Total BS. Fun activity in the same way as playing the horses is fun.

  • 143. Rutherford  |  September 4, 2010 at 12:18 am

    A Republican take-over in November will very possibly bring the country to a stand still for two years as angry Republicans execute their agenda on the White House. Every pundit I listen to has said keep your eye on Darryl Issa. He’s going to tie the entire government up in investigations for two years.

    Damn shame …. witch hunts when we need solutions.

  • 144. an800lbgorilla  |  September 4, 2010 at 12:24 am

    Every pundit I listen to…” – R

    And they’re all on MSNBC…

    A quote from Issa, if you will: “It should never be illegal to arrest and illegal.” Couldn’t agree more. This administration has a lot to answer for, and while I’m not for witch hunts, I think there have been some significant events that beg investigation- Sestak the first of those.

  • 145. an800lbgorilla  |  September 4, 2010 at 12:25 am

    As for defending Klein, let us rememeber that he was the creator of the Journo list, so ethical integrity probably isn’t high on his list of priorities…

  • 146. an800lbgorilla  |  September 4, 2010 at 12:27 am

    Larry Sabato Predicts GOP Will Take Back House This Fall

  • 147. Rutherford  |  September 4, 2010 at 12:47 am

    Tex, while some here think me a self-important wind-bag, I would not presume to analyze the mind of Stephen Hawking. He lives in the world of Einstein and some of the best thinkers of the ages. I see no reason to doubt his reputation.

    I’m not a big fan of pity. We all have our burdens and should never presume to know the relative difficulty of one man’s burden over another’s. Hawking, just by his longevity displays an enviable will and joie de vivre. Very few with his condition live as long as he has. For that alone he is awesome.

    What I find interesting is that despite his long suspected standing as an atheist, he did, in “Brief History of Time” allow for the existence of God. One would think as he got older and came face to face with his mortality that this religious wiggle room would increase, not decrease. But alas he apparently has abandoned any need to put God into the scientific equation. I find that interesting.

  • 148. Rutherford  |  September 4, 2010 at 12:53 am

    “It should never be illegal to arrest and illegal.”

    G, I’m not picking on you … did you copy/paste that right cos it makes no sense on the face of it.

    Cast aspersions on MSNBC all you like, your Issa quote (as best I can understand it) confirms the current punditry.

    Let’s hope that in between investigations, the GOP finds time to fix the economy. :-)

    I’m no longer placing my bets on the House in November. A recent poll revealed that a substantial number will vote GOP only in protest of Dem’s … not because they like the GOP. That spells very bad news in November.

  • 149. an800lbgorilla  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:00 am

    Supose to be an illegal. Oops

  • 150. an800lbgorilla  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:02 am

    That poll very well could mean the Senate too then.

    How does that quote suport the pundits? What’s wrong with what he says?

  • 151. Rutherford  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:27 am

    G, you have attached a judgment to the pundits statement. It’s not a matter of right and wrong … just a matter of fact that litigation will be a major preoccupation, as supported by your Issa quote.

    I have added the judgment that this is a bad thing.

  • 152. Rutherford  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:29 am

    Anyone have any thoughts on Jan Brewer’s connection to a private prison company that would benefit by the incarceration of newly arrested illegals?

  • 153. an800lbgorilla  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:31 am

    Really? Three words: Eddie Bernice Johnson

  • 154. an800lbgorilla  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:48 am

    Issa was talking to the foolishness of the DoJ to sue AZ and the general failure of the Fed to do its job- secure the border.

    Is holding the Administration accountable wrong?

  • 155. Tex Taylor  |  September 4, 2010 at 6:48 am

    Rutherford,

    Einstein? Phooey…The only things Hawking has in common with Einstein is he was fabulous at math obviously, and he held Newton’s chair too. Hawking made his claim all the way back in the 70s because he was a prolific writer. Other than expounding on Einstein’s theories, I say he is famous because he addresses the questions of Einstein and was a fixture on TV for a time many years ago – that and his debilitating illness.

    Now I am not saying the man is not a savant. He’s obviously wonderfully talented in a specific subject. But what’s discovery is he really famous for? Name one. Can’t, can you without looking his personals up?

    Do you know how many scientists could fit that bill currently living? If Hawking were a died-in-the-wool Baptist, you wouldn’t hear his name in academic circles. He’d be scorned. And I should add that at least the last 25 years, he’s become a bitter man I understand. This is Jefferson personified, who became a doubter when his wife died and left him with many children. It’s a common theme through history with many famous and infamous alike.

  • 156. hippieprof  |  September 4, 2010 at 7:27 am

    Gorilla asks:

    is holding the Administration accountable wrong?

    There is never anything wrong with holding an administration accountable for serious ethical violations.

    It is wrong, however, to “hold them accountable” for the sole purpose of political gain. Not only does it waste taxpayer money and paralyze government, it badly diminishes public trust in government.

    Both sides do it. Ever since Watergate we have enjoyed a constant stream of public hearings – in which our elected officials stand up with faux righteousness and attack the ethics of the opposition – their only intent being to score political points against the opposition.

    It is nothing more than a publicly funded attack ad…..

  • 157. hippieprof  |  September 4, 2010 at 9:23 am

    You guys have a really funny version of Occam’s Razor. You seem to be taking it to mean “simple is always better” – but that is a gross over-simplification….

    Occam’s Razor says that given two EQUALLY PREDICTIVE models, the one with the fewer assumptions (in my world we would call them free parameters) is probably the better model.

    Note that the basic condition for Occam’s Razor is that the models in question be EQUALLY PREDICTIVE. If adding a parameter increases the predictive power of the model then indeed the more complex model is better. Occam’s Razor is about equally predictive models – if the more complex model is also the better predictor it is the better model – the base conditions for application of Occam’s Razor are not even met.

    So – Gorilla – not to pick on you but you offered an example of the surge. What were the two equally predictive models involved in the planning? How did you determine that they were equally predictive? What specific parameter or parameters did you eliminate when you chose the less complex model over the more complex model?

  • 158. Tex Taylor  |  September 4, 2010 at 10:52 am

    Rutherford, I left you a personal and redeeming comment at Hippie’s place, even if I did mix it in with my version of humor and the always and predictable insult of your “esteemed” heroes. From the heart, as I didn’t give a lot of thought where I was when I wrote it.

    Hopefully, you will see it.

  • 159. Tex Taylor  |  September 4, 2010 at 11:04 am

    Consider this. Perhaps you’re guilty like I am of taking so much for granted, you don’t even notice anymore the level of technology involved in our soft lives.

    BP crews worked Saturday to slowly raise the 300-ton blowout preventer that failed to stop oil from spewing into the Gulf of Mexico, careful not to damage or drop a key piece of evidence in the spill investigation.

    When the blowout preventer reaches the surface after its mile-long journey, government investigators will take possession of it and eventually examine it, hoping to gain insight into why the device failed.

    A BP PLC spokesman said in an e-mail to The Associated Press that the 50-foot device was detached from the wellhead Friday afternoon. Another blowout preventer had successfully been placed on the blown-out well, the government said later.

    You read that article and think, ho hum. And then I started thinking, somehow man just raised 600,000 lbs, attached with cables by submersible robots that can withstand enormous pressures one mile deep in pitch black on the ocean floor, onto a platform floating in the water, where it will be loaded onto a barge that hold 600,000lbs. and crew, where it will be taken to a dock and moved to holding place under weights that would crush normal concrete.

    I wish to thank anyone and everyone at this moment who has come before me and joins me now, that demonstrates ingenuity and accomplishment that I can only dream, so I can sit on my lazy ass talking to anyone I want from my bedroom an entire world away real-time.

    Incredible.

  • 160. Hucking Fypocrites  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    HP is not using Occam’s Razor to deal with Occam’s Razor.

    I woke up this morning and my wife and kids were gone. Where are they?

    Were they captured by aliens?

    Did they all fly to the moon?

    Or are they at the car wash they had been planning for the HS wrestling team?

    Can I not use Occam’s Razor to solve this question? Why do I have to get into equaly predictive models, and parameters, and such?

    Why can’t I just say, “Gee, the simplest explanation for where my family is, is where they had planned to be.”?

    As certain people will readilly remind you all, I’m a lowly M.A. student. But I don’t see why this concept of problem solving can’t be used as a simple tool. It doesn’t have to be complicated.

  • 161. El Tigre  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    HP says: “You guys have a really funny version of Occam’s Razor. You seem to be taking it to mean “simple is always better” – but that is a gross over-simplification….”

    Back to your “all or nothing” logic agan I see. I guess you can’t help it.

    So again, this must mean that you believe complex is always better, right?

  • 162. hippieprof  |  September 4, 2010 at 2:04 pm

    So again, this must mean that you believe complex is always better, right?

    No Tigre, I believe that given too equally predictive models the less complex is likely to be the better one. I also believe that if a more complex model has better predictive power than a simpler model, it is indeed better. You would have seen that had you read to the bottom of the post you quoted from.

  • 163. El Tigre  |  September 4, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    I saw it. I quoted the portion where you pruprot to summarize “us guys.” I just can’t help myself either. You and R have no aversion to irony. Do you see it here in your comments? Hint: I’m mocking your simplicity of reason — straw man arguments.

  • 164. hippieprof  |  September 4, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    Huck asks: Did they all fly to the moon? Or are they at the car wash they had been planning for the HS wrestling team?

    Can I not use Occam’s Razor to solve this question? Why do I have to get into equaly predictive models, and parameters, and such?

    You have to use the equally predictive models part because that is what Occam’s razor is all about. I am probably just being a semantic purist here – but what you are describing just isn’t Occam’s razor.

    I think you are instead using another form of reasoning, captured by the phrase “When you hear hoofbeats, think horses not zebras.

    Note that the two models are equal in their simplicity. We choose horses over zebras because it is a more likely scenario, not because it is a simpler scenario.

    In your example, you choose the car wash over aliens not because it is simpler but because it is more likely.

    Again, I am probably being a semantic purist here – but we academic folks tend to be that way.

    As certain people will readilly remind you all, I’m a lowly M.A. student.

    I hope you are not referring to me. I have done the grad school thing and I have great respect for grad students.

  • 165. El Tigre  |  September 4, 2010 at 2:17 pm

    BTW, thank you for the fuck you song. Completely stuck in my head. I’ve had to share it with damn near eveyone I know that has a decent senseof humor.

  • 166. The Meaning of Freedom « Taxes, Stupidity, and Death  |  September 4, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    [...] the self-appointed experts, and only the self-appointed experts can save us from ourselves.   How do we fix America? Any five year old can say “look to the Constitution and the Bible”. Utter simplistic nonsense. [...]

  • 167. Hucking Fypocrites  |  September 4, 2010 at 4:09 pm

    HP, see that is the problem. Because we are discussing an actual tool used in science, you are applying your usage of it. I don’t think that means that anyone who uses it needs to apply those same things.

    “Entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily.”

    That is supposedly the translation of what Accam said. Anything other than that is what different people have attached to it, no?

    It’s a tool. Like a screwdriver. It wasn’t made to sink nails, but I can use it for that job if I wish.

    Perhaps I need to take another, yet similar, approach to this to get you to see it from outside your box.

    Laws don’t have to be complicated to solve complicated problems. Words just have to be selected carefully.

    The only benefit to complicated laws is the shelter it gives to earmarks and other garbage that shouldn’t be in there using up paper in the first place.

  • 168. an800lbgorilla  |  September 4, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    serious ethical violations” – HP

    I think breaking federal law falls into this category…

    As to your surge question, it had essentially boiled down to a focus on population security, or Iraqi Security Force (ISF) training. We felt that population security would be the simpler, more effective method.

  • 169. an800lbgorilla  |  September 4, 2010 at 6:52 pm

    The only thing worse than this is Jersey Shore. And you said Iraq had no chance of success!

    BAGHDAD — An Iraqi reality television program broadcast during Ramadan has been planting fake bombs in celebrities’ cars, having an Iraqi army checkpoint find them and terrifying the celebrities into thinking that they are headed for maximum security prison.

    The show “Put Him in [Camp] Bucca” has drawn numerous protests but has stayed on air throughout the fasting month, broadcasting its “stings” on well-known Iraqi personalities.

  • 170. hippieprof  |  September 5, 2010 at 1:01 am

    Huck says…. Entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily.”

    You are playing fast and loose with the word “unnecessarily” – when is it necessary to multiple entities? When doing so improves predictive power. When is it not? When doing so does not improve predictive power. In other words, just what I said before.

    Perhaps you have some other definition of unnecessarily.

    Laws don’t have to be complicated to solve complicated problems. Words just have to be selected carefully.

    If you are talking about scientific laws you are just plain wrong. You need as many parameters as the system you are studying has. Try as you might, you can’t make a linear equation fit quadratic data….

  • 171. an800lbgorilla  |  September 5, 2010 at 1:06 am

    scientific laws

    Of course, we’re not talking scientific laws, are we?

  • 172. an800lbgorilla  |  September 5, 2010 at 3:31 am

    Tell me this isn’t freaky…

  • 173. an800lbgorilla  |  September 5, 2010 at 3:32 am

    http://www.investors.com/image/toon_090310.jpg.cms

  • 174. an800lbgorilla  |  September 5, 2010 at 3:34 am

    No, you do not…

    http://www.investors.com/image/RAM800clr-083110-bikeribd.jpg.cms

  • 175. Hucking Fypocrites  |  September 5, 2010 at 11:02 am

    “Perhaps you have some other definition of unnecessarily. ”

    Doing things that don’t need to be done pretty much sums up my definition.

    “You are playing fast and loose with the word “unnecessarily” – when is it necessary to multiple entities? When doing so improves predictive power. When is it not? When doing so does not improve predictive power.”

    I think you are playing hard and fast with the word “need.”

    Which puts us right back where we started. I say things don’t “need” to be complicated to solve complicated problems.

    “If you are talking about scientific laws you are just plain wrong.”

    No. I am talking about laws that are much more complex.

    Like health insurance reform laws that are so big and complicated that not a single person who decided to make it the law of the land has ever read it or has a clue how it is going to perform. Laws that are such big fucking deals that we have to pass them to see what’s in them.

    In other words, just as I said before.

  • 176. Hucking Fypocrites  |  September 5, 2010 at 11:04 am

    “I think you are playing hard and fast with the word “need.””

    Damn, I don’t know WTF that came from.

    I knew I should have waited until after my 1st cup to post.

    Just disregard that part…..

  • 177. hippieprof  |  September 5, 2010 at 11:24 am

    Which puts us right back where we started. I say things don’t “need” to be complicated to solve complicated problems.

    I don’t think so. If the solution does not address all of the dimensions of the problem then some of the problem remains unsolved – isn’t that just logical?

    Of course it is possible to write a simple law to address some of the problem while ignoring other parts. You might decide as a lawmaker that certain aspects of the problem can be ignored and don’t need to be addressed. Sometimes that works out OK, sometimes not. I think all too often the simple solutions ignore parts of the problem that really need to be addressed. For example, addressing cost issues in health care without addressing the immoral practices of insurance companies (as most GOP-sponsored plans proposed) would leave out a huge piece of the problem – and I don’t find that acceptable.

  • 178. El Tigre  |  September 5, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    Stealing is wrong. Simple. 14,000 page law to adress it? Clearly intended to accomplich something other (or more) than to remedy or deter.

    I give you Chris Chrisite as my Exhibit “A” to the KISS principle –applying simple, common sense solutions while ignoring the pleas of those the parasitic libs to solve problems.

    So what are “the immoral practices of insurance companies” that require the intervention of the federal government, payouts and kickbacks? Legislative complexity can and does frequently obscure the objective, particularly those with a self-serving agenda.

  • 179. El Tigre  |  September 5, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    Oh fuck it. Don’t bother. Your real point is that libs are smarter than conservatives. All of the contortions are really directed at validation of that point. Which I love. I live in an extremely liberal area. I assure you there is real shortage of education and intellect, but no shortage whatsoever of wrongly perceived intelligence and moral superiority.

    Funny how shallow the criticism is from those that insist they occupy a higher intellectual ground. we should just go back to clinging to our guns and bibles — oh and acting stupidly. the last bastions of the ignoramus. . .

  • 180. an800lbgorilla  |  September 5, 2010 at 9:51 pm

    You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
    You cannot help small men by tearing down big men.
    You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
    You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.
    You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income.
    You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatreds.
    You cannot establish security on borrowed money.
    You cannot build character and courage by taking away a man’s initiative and independence.
    You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.” – William J. H. Boetcker

  • 181. an800lbgorilla  |  September 6, 2010 at 12:42 am

    Some R can appreciate…

    Linda Burnett, 23, a resident of San Diego, was visiting her in-laws and while there, went to a nearby supermarket to pick up some groceries. Later, her husband noticed her sitting in her car in the driveway with the car running and the windows rolled up. Her eyes were closed with both hands behind the back of her head. He became concerned and walked over to the car. He noticed that Linda’s eyes were now open and she looked very strange. He asked her if she was okay; Linda replied that she had been shot in the back of the head and had been holding her brains in for over an hour (at least it seemed that way to her, it actually had been 15 minutes, she blamed the inability to tell time on her head injury).

    The husband called the paramedics, who broke into the car because the doors were locked and Linda refused to remove her hands from her head.

    When they finally got in, they found that Linda had a wad of bread dough on the back of her head. From the back seat a Pillsbury biscuit canister had exploded from the heat, making a loud noise that sounded like a gunshot, and the wad of dough hit her in the back of her head. When she reached back to find out what it was, she felt the dough and thought it was her brains. She initially passed out, but quickly recovered.

    Linda is blonde, a Democrat, and an Obama supporter; but that could all be a coincidence.

    The defective biscuit canister was analyzed and it was determined to be Bush’s fault.

  • 182. an800lbgorilla  |  September 6, 2010 at 12:47 am

    That would be something

  • 183. Rutherford  |  September 6, 2010 at 9:49 am

    G, that got my day kicked off with a chuckle. I actually believed the story until the punch line.

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